open thread – May 13-14, 2022

by Alison Green on May 13, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Gladys*

    My team consists of me (a Llama Grooming Manager), Imogene (Cutting Manager, Wooly Llama Grooming) and Claude (Cutting Manager, Wooly Llama Grooming). We work on different types of llamas, and while my position is above them, I don’t have any authority over Imogene and Claude. The issue is that Imogene constantly asks Claude and me for guidance and clarification on how to do her job. Our manager, Leroy, recently quit, but he ignored how Claude and I carry most of the weight of the work while Imogene does the least amount of work, makes careless errors, needs to be reminded of things she has been told and how she would just not show up to certain mandatory meetings Claude and I go to. With the current example, our grand-boss Ralph, told Imogene to reach out to someone in finance to get the status on something. She said okay! But then immediately chats Claude and me asking what the latest email is (in an email chain she is on) and what the people in finance need. She is over complicating the situation, she just needs to ask the status of something, but she doesn’t want to read through the email chain and is basically making Claude and I tell her what she is supposed to do. And last week, we had an optional external training course for llama grooming and Imogene made a big deal in the team chat room (where our grand-boss could see) how she would send out a calendar reminder to all of us to block out the time for this training. She sent out the calendar invite, but then she didn’t even show up to the course! You can see who attends, and she didn’t even go!

    You might be thinking, this woman lacks confidence and is only asking questions. Well! While she is very lazy with her job, she is one of the most entitled people I’ve ever worked with. She started a year and a half ago, and the first time I trained her, she went on about how this role was a step down for her and how she is used to a more senior role (which, eyeroll…). That’s been her attitude since then as well. I think she genuinely thinks she is at a director level and that Claude and I are there to “assist” her.

    The entire time she’s been here, she’s REALLY good at saying the right things in front of managers and people in high positions but then quietly asks for our help. The end result is that SHE looks competent to management, when in fact she needs constant guidance to do basic things. For reference I’m in my mid-30s and both Claude and Imogen are in their early 30s, so I’m not sure why she thinks she is so much more experienced than us.

    Now that Leroy is gone, we are getting a new manager next week, Ollie. At this point, I’m exhausted from dealing with her laziness and entitled attitude on top of doing my job. I’m going to try and push her questions towards Ollie, but I’m also worried by refusing to give into her “helplessness”, it’s going to make me look like I’m not a team player to Ollie. I’m also like, “does anyone else see what she’s doing? Am I crazy?”

    Any advice?

    1. irene adler*

      There’s a difference between “team player” and “carrying someone”.

      After Ollie has settled in, you might answer say, the first 5 questions from Imogine. Then, rope Ollie in with “I’ve been telling Imogene to do X steps when we need to carry out task Y. Ollie, maybe you should impart to Imogene how to approach task Y. ”

      No you aren’t at all crazy. Be glad you can see that “the emperor has no clothes.”

    2. Someone in BioPharma*

      Stop helping her. Send her to Ollie. If Ollie is competent she will work out the issues after a few conversations with Imogene.

    3. Mostly Managing*

      You are not crazy.

      Refer Imogen’s questions to Ollie, once Ollie’s had a bit of time to settle. Maybe give Ollie a heads up first – “I’ve been fielding so many basic questions from Imogen, it’s impacting my ability to get my own work done. I’m going to send her to you, and maybe you can figure out where the training gaps are.”

      And then just hope Imogen doesn’t somehow burn down the grooming she’d with a chemistry set. :)

      1. rage criers unite*

        I would do this … let Ollie know whats been going on so they know its been happening for a while!!

      2. Alexander Graham Yell*

        Oh I really like this! Makes it clear that it’s an ongoing issue, it has productivity impacts, and that Imogen needs active management.

      3. Khatul Madame*

        Be very vigilant with the heads-up. Imogen will also give Ollie a heads-up that will paint her in the best possible light at the expense of you and Claude. Your own heads-up should present you as a team player and rebut any negatives Imogen may put forward.
        Also prepare for the scenario where Ollie buys Imogen’s theatrics, at least for a brief time. Do not assume Ollie will be on your side or even on the side of getting things done.

          1. Working Hypothesis*

            Continue showing Imogen the same have you’ve been doing for a little while, so she won’t get to Ollie first and pre-empt you. If she doesn’t know there’s any reason to worry that you might change your current approach, she won’t try. Then tell Ollie how concerned you are about the fact that ever since you trained Imogen, she continues to need your and Claude’s constant guidance on very basic things, and you’re concerned about the impact it’s causing to your and Claude’s work to keep carrying her to this degree.

            1. Gladys*

              I want to tread carefully when it comes to putting words in Claude’s mouth. I’m not sure what he thinks about it because we’ve never talked about Imogene. He might be annoyed with her, but he’s extremely professional and I’ve never heard him complain once about anything. He’s also really nice so he might not think it’s as big of a deal as it as. I don’t know how to bring it up to him either, because him and I have a good working relationship and I don’t want him to think I’m a snake or being difficult. I also don’t know how Claude’s and Imogene’s relationship outside of me is.

              So I don’t feel comfortable telling Ollie outright, “she’s taking up Claude’s and my time with basic questions she’s been trained on” especially if he’s never complained to me about her.

              1. Working Hypothesis*

                Fair enough. Then say she’s taking up yours. If she asks about Claude, you can tell her that your own impression has been that he’s also been helping her to a significant degree, but that you haven’t checked that with him and so can’t be sure.

      4. JSPA*

        I like this. If you just send her over, she has extra time to blow smoke up his ass.

    4. ferrina*

      What if you just….don’t answer? Maybe “miss” her email or not get back to her in chat right away. Give her a couple hours while you do your own work. Then when you do respond back, make it vague “I’m not sure, maybe it’s in the email”. Then when she inevitably responds back “What email?”, you don’t respond for another hour.
      If your boss asks you to help her more, at that point you can clarify how much time she’s historically needed on your help and confirm that that’s time that he’d like you to spend helping her (instead of doing your own work)

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        Slowing down the cycle is an excellent idea, even if the LW is not willing to be completely unhelpful.

      2. Momma Bear*

        Sometimes it helps to loop in a third party. So for example, you might take the opportunity of a new boss to CC Ollie “for your information” on a thing. Two things might happen – one, that she stops emailing you things she now knows you will cc to her manager and two, that he might quickly come up to speed not just about the tasks but about her response to them. Could be something like “Imogene, you asked for the last email in this thread. Here is the last one I had. You can use it as a jumping off point to your conversation with Bill in Finance, per Big Boss’s data request from you.” You will be a Team Player for helping, but not fully doing her work.

        1. Cj*

          Without Ollie knowing the reason behind it, I think he would be baffled and probably unhappy if the OP does this. Most people get way too many e-mails as it is, and wouldn’t appreciate being looped in on these sort of things.

          In normal circumstances it would actually be out of line, and he has no reason to believe that these aren’t normal circumstances.

          If you meant that the OP should do this after she gives Ollie a heads up, that’s a good idea. Both to let Ollie know what and how much this happens, and so that the co-worker knows that Ollie knows.

    5. Mockingjay*

      Just stop helping her. “Sorry, I don’t know who to contact in finance.” “Sorry, can’t help, I’ve got to finish my task.” Ignore her chats. You’re not obligated to respond. Or send a quick response to cut her off: “sorry, can’t talk, busy today.” Let her fail.

      I suggest that you focus on your own work and establishing a good relationship with Ollie. If you do talk to Ollie, keep it on process, not personality – Imogene doesn’t do X, which results in Y impact.

  2. Done.*

    Mostly a vent this but what do you do when your seemingly unemployable? I’ve had 30+ interviews in the last 18 months and can’t do any more. I’ve had a few good ones where I’ve been beaten by someone seemingly perfect, and a lot I’ve bombed – my interviewing anxiety is getting worse and I’ve started asking for accommodations for internal interviews. Honestly not sure where I can go from here but I’ve been working 9 years and I’m barely above entry level. Any tips on how to learn to cope with this?

    1. NeevousNellie*

      If you haven’t already, have a professional look at your resume and your cover letter. Consider working with a recruiter for the industry you want to work in, so some of the work isn’t on your shoulders. Get a frank assessment of your appearance and how you conduct yourself.

      You may, unfortunately, need to move to get a step up position. Could you do 4-5 years in whatever your closest big city is?

      1. Cj*

        Since they’re getting so many interviews, I don’t think the resume or cover letter are the problem.

        Doing mock interviews with a professional or friend that would give them honest feedback would be a really good idea, as well as frank feedback on their appearance and conduct in general.

        I really don’t think these are all internal interviews. I can’t imagine anyone not getting a job after that many interviews at their current company and not looking outside their company along time ago.

        I’m actually wondering if this was meant to be a reply to a different post? So much of it doesn’t fit, like your comments about the industry they want to work in when there is no indication they are trying to switch industries, moving to a different city, and a potential problem with their resume and cover letter when they are getting so many interviews.

        1. Cj*

          I paused writing this comment while it was in progress, and wrote that I don’t think they were all internal interviews before I realize that by move you meant move locations, not companies.

    2. OptimisticPessimist*

      First of all, my condolences. That sounds difficult.

      Second, I think one thing that might help is doing some sort of temp work, like subbing, where it’s almost like volunteering with subsidized gas money. (At least, that’s how it is where I live. Subs aren’t paid s***.) That will at least be something financially, as well as recent experiences you can add to. You can also feel good about helping where there is real societal need. Also, subbing for high school leave plenty of time to type cover letters and job search. Most teachers just have kids working on their Chromebooks. Temping also may be good for similar reasons.

      Third, I’m sorry again. That would suck so bad. I hope it resolves quickly. Maybe reach out to a nearby university or government employment group and see if anyone will practice interview with you or read your cover letter to check for blind spots.

      This just sounds like a long bout of bad luck. Wishes for all the good luck to come to you soon!

      1. Cj*

        That many interviews without being hired sucks no matter what, and I know that the OP says they think they are unemployable. But I am a little confused as to if they are actually unemployed, or just under-employed.

        They said they’ve asked for accommodations for internal interviews, which I understood to be internal interviews at the company they are working at.

    3. K C*

      First of all congrats on putting yourself out there. It’s hard.

      I’m not sure how others interview, but what I did was to write down their questions during the interview or immediately after. Then I’d go home, add them to the list, and come up with an absolutely perfect story to reply with next time.

      Those stories need to include a previous situation at least tangentially related. And show a lot of my own positive qualities. Then I’d practice it until it was fluent, and not read from a page. It has to be in your common speech words. And you’ve got to believe it.

      After doing this for a little while interviews became extremely easy for me – but there’s still other factors that I don’t know about or understand which mean not getting the job.

      Anyway IF you don’t do that maybe you could try. If you do that already then great and hopefully someone else has a better idea.

    4. Not My Usual Name*

      Thank you SO MUCH for posting this. Seriously. I have no advice to offer, just solidarity. I was a casualty of a round of layoffs in January, I’ve applied for more than 40 jobs since, most well within my skill set, and…I’ve had 2 interviews, one of which went nowhere and the other of which was not something I wanted to pursue because I am in no way interested in sales.

      Can we please talk about how it’s clearly not “an employee’s market” for everyone? I go on LinkedIn, find a job I might want, and see “over 200 applicants.” Which to me says “don’t waste your time.” Multiple jobs. Every day. It’s incredibly frustrating and demoralizing. It doesn’t help that, if I’m being honest, the “traditional” job search process has never worked well for me.

      I’m beginning to think I might have to go back to admin assistant work, which I really do not want to do because, let’s face it, it sucks because the admin is too often one of the least appreciated and most exploited/abused person in the office…unless there’s a receptionist. Been there, done that, don’t want to do it again.

      But the reality is, I can’t even seem to get an interview, I hate job searching with the fire of 10,000 suns, and….argh! I’m trying to use Alison’s advice to the best of my ability, but yeah, not a lot of results right now. So…what do you do when you seem to be hitting brick wall after brick wall?

      1. Anna Badger*

        one thing I would say is that “over 200 applicants” is distinct from “over 200 viable applicants” – especially on LinkedIn, a lot of the applications may well be scattershot approaches which are quickly ruled out. if you’re a good match for the role it’s still worth applying!

        1. Glitter*

          I agree with this! I have a phone interview today with a job that had over 600 applicants on Indeed, so I didn’t really expect to hear back. But if you have relevant experience and/or the qualifications they asked for, that might put you at the top of even a large hiring pool

        2. Momma Bear*

          Agreed. So many applications never go further than that because they are clearly just spitballing. Go through the archives here for tips and write up a good cover letter. I get so many crappy applications where I don’t know why they want a job, but will look twice if they have a well crafted letter to clue me in.

        3. voluptuousfire*

          It could also mean 200 clickthroughs to the job application but that doesn’t necessarily mean application. I know I’ve clicked on several job listings on LinkedIn that went to the listing on the company site and not applied.

      2. Harried HR*

        If you have experience in the job posted and have the required skills then please apply.

        Once of my roles in HR is Recruiting and if there are 200 applicants for a role 150 meet ZERO of the criteria. So in reality you would be competing against 50 viable candidates not 200 .

        Just my 2 cents

      3. Aggresuko*

        In all honesty, I quit job hunting. I just don’t fit what people want these days and I don’t *want* to become a finance/payroll person, or a money person, or a front desk person. I don’t want those jobs and those jobs don’t want me. I just don’t see anything else out there.

        1. Pascall*

          What sort of things ARE you interested in pursuing? I may be able to assist with at least providing some ideas.

      4. May 2022*

        Agreed x 1000, right down to the admin work. I don’t know what “employee’s market” all these articles are referring to, but it’s not one I’m a part of.

        No employer sees my career advancement as advancement, because it wasn’t with their company. It’s like it doesn’t exist.

        It’s demoralizing.

        1. Not My Usual Name*

          “Demoralizing” is a understatement. But it does help to know I’m not the only one having this experience.

          I was telling my spouse the other day that I feel like I could find a job…if I was willing to make $25,000 a year…which I’m not. Job hunting just sucks.

      5. Sherm*

        I was underemployed during an era where supposedly you could walk into any place of employment and be hired on the spot, if you were to believe some news reports.

        Job searching sucks. And even when it’s a job-seeker’s market, employers can hold their breath longer than an applicant can. Many employers are refusing to change. They want someone who can both groom llamas and paint teapots, all for a modest wage in a high cost-of-living area. They would rather be short-staffed to the point of absurdity than update how they operate.

        Hang in there, y’all. But it’s okay to take a little break. If you take a vacation, even a mini 3-day staycation, it’s time well “spent” if you emerge from it recharged and ready to make another go at it.

      6. Pascall*

        One thing I discovered is that if LinkedIn has an “Easy Apply” option, I almost NEVER do it that way- that’s how they get those “Over 200 Applicants” label.

        Go to their website instead and apply there. I applied to one opportunity that had the over 200 applicants marker on a whim, just out of curiosity, and now I’m on the final round – it’s below what I want, but I’m not counting my chickens with my other interviews just yet.

        The Easy Apply makes it very simple for everyone under the sun to apply to it and many of them are not qualified or haven’t taken the time to ensure that the position is even something they’re actually interested in.

        Give it a go.

      7. Not My Usual Name*

        Thanks, everyone! I appreciate the support and the suggestions so much! I’ll definitely try applying through the employer’s website directly – it’s for sure worth trying!

        This is one of my favorite comment sections on the Internet for very good reason – you guys rock!

    5. Overeducated*

      I always kept getting beaten by someone seemingly perfect too, until I was the one seemingly perfect. I’ve gotten rejected for most of the jobs I’ve ever applied for. And then once in a while, I’m just the best candidate. Luck is a huge part of this, it’s unpredictable, but it can hit you too – the fact that you’re currently employed means you are employable.

      If it’s making you so anxious it’s getting hard to interview well, maybe it’s time to take a month off from applying and give yourself an emotional break? Or rehearse some answers with a trusted friend or colleague so you’re more on autopilot during actual interviews? I’m sorry it’s such a long process, it’s exhausting.

      1. Snoozing not schmoozing*

        I have a kind of dumb trick that worked for me in in-person interviews. When the other person is talking, I lean forward a bit. It looks like I’m hanging on every word they say. Then when it was my turn to talk, I’d lean back a little, which made me look relaxed and confident. I was even told by someone I wound up working for, after the interview with his boss, that I interviewed better than anyone he’d ever seen. It helps to think of it like an acting job.

      2. Squirrel Nutkin*

        I can relate! One thing that getting to be on hiring committees (after I finally found a full-time job at an advanced age) taught me is just how random the hiring process can be. Luck *definitely* plays a part.

        I believe I wound up getting my first full-time job because I just happened to have taken a particularly awesome training program in my field a good decade and a half before that interview — one of the hiring committee had done the same training program, and I think that’s what got me the job. So random.

    6. Lana Kane*

      It’s not directly related to interviewing, but if you are having trouble with interviews then perhaps joining an org like Toastmasters could help you with feeling more comfortable with speaking with others, and help you polish up your delivery? This in conjunction with resume help and practice interviews to get feedback. Perhaps even a trusted friend can help you practice as well.

      1. StrikingFalcon*

        Yeah, if you’re getting interviews but not doing well in them, the solution has to involve working on your interview skills and/or the anxiety that is blocking your ability to succeed at then. Have you considered seeing a therapist specifically for help in preparing for and doing interviews? Getting someone to practice interviewing with you can also be immensely helpful.

    7. Irish Teacher.*

      I really doubt you are unemployable. I haven’t any advice, but it might be a bit…well, you might like to hear that I spent 13 years doing short-term subbing while applying for year long and permanent jobs. I had way more than 30 interviews that I was turned down for. Then I got a year long, part-time job in my current school. That was 5 years ago, I’m still there and am pretty valued by my colleagues. Our principal told me, “a lot of people aren’t suited to your role, but you definitely are.”

      (I will add in my country subs are paid the same as full time teachers and have the same qualifications, but are paid only for days worked, so no pay over the summer holidays or if you don’t get any subbing work some weeks.)

    8. Nethwen*

      I’m sorry. That sounds so, so hard.

      Adding to others’ advice to practice interview questions and so on, I just heard an interview with Rich Gallagher about his book Stress Free Small Talk. He has a section that focuses on small talk specifically for job interviews and how being skilled in small talk can help someone in the interview.

      Before people start thinking Gallagher is saying interviews are decided on how much someone likes you (he’s not, in my opinion), listen to an interview or read the book. He focuses on teaching people quantifiable, learnable skills, not on developing “personality” or something else amorphous.

    9. anonymous73*

      I feel this so much. I’ve been working professionally for over 25 years and my career took a turn in 2011 and I haven’t seemed to be able to dig out of it. I was a Business Analyst and then forced into a support position. I was given an opportunity in 2015 to be a Project Manager with a former manager, but then was laid off in 2020 without having gained a whole lot of experience. I finally found a PM position last August (after nine months and many many interviews), and while my manager is great and very supportive, I don’t have much work to keep me occupied, and I’m not learning anything new to give me a leg up on a new job. If you have a way to take courses or gain more knowledge to help you advance, start there. It’s very competitive out there right now – they say employees have the upper hand, but so many have left crappy jobs that there’s more competition for the good ones. Keep your head up, don’t take anything personally, and keep trying. The right job is out there for you somewhere.

    10. Dragonfly7*

      If your current company has an EAP plan, they might be able to refer you to a counselor who specializes in career development, or anxiety and coping in general.

    11. RagingADHD*

      You mention internal interviews – does that mean you are currently working? Because that changes the answer of “what do you do.”

      If you weren’t working at all, then what you do is literally anything legal that you’re physically capable of, to get an income. Because piling up debt, missing meals, or being insecurely housed are just going to make it harder and harder to follow through effectively on finding the job you want. You can deal with the other steps once you are on your feet with steady money coming in.

      If you are working and just not moving up or around in the way you want to, then at least you know you are not actually “unemployable.” Same thing if your resume is getting you calls for interviews on jobs that are a good fit. In that case, you need some help leveling up your skills.

      Step one would be to deal with the anxiety, since it seems to be the main factor you cite in having problems with interviews. There is medical help for that, and the place to start is with your current employer’s EAP or through your health insurance to find a provider in your network.

      Step two would be to work with that provider on strategizing what you can change or approach differently in the job search overall. Maybe apply for a different career track. Maybe cultivate your professional network.

      The anxiety and stress of the job hunt and interviews seem to be the main things in your way, so best to tackle them head-on.

    12. Parenthesis Dude*

      I’ve been in your shoes before including the entry level part and turned things around. The main thing to keep in mind is stay positive. This happens to most people even if it feels like it only happens to you. If you feel like it only happens to you, you start choking.

      The other thing is to just keep on working at getting better. Just keep on making your case to move up.

    13. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      I feel this hard. Long story short, my last job search was about two years. And I felt just like you. That I was fundamentally unemployable, to the point I considered making a podcast called “Unemployable”. I’d get plenty of interviews, but would just fall short in the final round. It sent me into a pretty deep depression, and the clock was ticking, I needed to find something very soon. I took a chance and interviewed for my current position. I actually did not think I’d like it, but the company had a good reputation and the job was in my pay range so I took the chance and got the job. Looking back, of all the jobs I was rejected for, that I though I wanted, this was the one that was actually the best fit.

      All this to say, it sucks and I know there’s a point you feel you’ll never find anything. But you are not unemployable. And I’m saying this for myself too. Changes at my company have made it so I’m back on the job market. And I’ve had a ton of interviews in the past 4 months. No offers. I had an amazing one today, and of all the ones I’ve done this is totally the best fit. But I’m also starting of feel the residual effects of my last search creeping in. Because it was traumatic. Some people seem to get every job they interview for. And then there’s us who seem like perpetual runners up. It can really take a toll. As to how to cope, self care when you can, and keep going if you want. But if you want to take a break and don’t need a change right now, do that!

      All the best. And WHEN you do find something, please update.

    14. Sloanicota*

      I hate to suggest this, but I wonder if employers are being crappy about the accommodations you’re requesting, and that’s why you’re not seeing better results. It should never happen but not every company follows the law if they can get away with it, and hiring is one of those places are hard to prove. Can you tweak your approach to these accommodations?

    15. IrishEm*

      I feel you. I was deeply underemployed and then unemployed for many years, and nothing was working until I got put in touch with a great local (un)employment assistance group. They arranged mock interviews and gave me sound advice about how I conduct myself in interviews.
      I was in an unemployment course but they also did courses and classes for people who were underemployed and/or having trouble with interviewing. It ight be worth seeing if there’s something like that where you are (Jobnet.ie if you’re in Ireland).

      It is definitely a skill that is really hard to master. I’m an otherwise good-with-people person but interviews, man, they mess with my head. I wish you luck.

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        Seconded.
        I was always in luck in that I happened to be in a field that was in demand at a time, although that was partly my own doing by keeping my eyes open and learning new stuff that looked interesting at the time – which then converted into marketable skills. Reading stuff on the internet counts (more if it’s business or science than sports or celebrities’ shenanigans, though). So stay curious and flexible; casting a wider net (field, roles, location, non-traditional hours…) can help a lot. My current job was, at the time, way out of my existing career trajectory and comfort zone – that was 12 years ago and my current role is quite different from what I was hired for. A bit of regularly reinventing myself.

        For the interview anxiety, consider getting an entry level job in sales. An interview is just a sales talk (matching customer’s problems with what you have to offer).
        Mock interviews help most if they are done with a partner experienced in hiring who is compassionate but honest – sugarcoating will not help you at all. Many interview failures happen in the first few seconds, unfortunately, so more based on appearance and poise than anything else. But you can work on that! Practice, I’d suggest taking a video on your phone so you see how you appear to the other person. Include entering the room and greeting participants in your practice.
        In my last interview, I brought a 2″ by 3″ card with my resume condensed to a few years and keywords on one side and questions I wanted to ask on the other, written out by hand just before the interview. That gave me some added security in not messing up dates.
        If you make that one page with white space for notes, you can hold on to a pen to calm your hands.
        I’m bad with names so I write them down like they are seated around the table, unless business cards are exchanged that I can arrange on the table in front of me.
        Sorry for rambling!

    16. The Jobless Wonder*

      I get it — it’s hell out there and it often feels as though potential employers see applicants as less than human. Not all, but too many. It’s not a jobseeker’s market for everyone. I felt unemployable during a multi-year job hunt, and the despair that comes with that. You aren’t alone (although it feels that way) and I know it doesn’t look like it, but there is hope. In my case, the work I’m doing now isn’t what I trained for at all. It’s something I’ve done casually for years and I was able to make a case in my application, and then the interview. Throw whatever you’ve got at the wall and see what sticks.

      Above all, remember you’re not a loser, and you’re not unemployable. Sticking with the search means you’re tenacious AF. Get advice, and take a short break if you can, and be sure to give yourself some regular downtime from the search-application-interview grind.

    17. lurkyloo*

      Speaking as the partner of someone going through this….It’s so hard to watch and I’m so sorry. My partner has made it to the final 2 six times in six months…and keeps losing out. And has had a remarkable number of companies interview him, be enthusiastic and then ghost. I can’t imagine how tough it is and I’m sorry it’s happening to you. :(

  3. How to recover professional confidence?*

    Looking for tips to build yourself up when your professional confidence has been shredded. Any and all advice is welcome. I am in therapy, but also value hearing about other people’s experiences and what worked for them.

    (It’s the not entirely uncommon tale of an unpleasant boss tearing you down in a “death by 1000 cuts” kind of way. Intellectually, I know it’s them and not me, but still struggling not to internalize all the negativity and combativeness.)

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      This has never worked for me, but they say to write down your accomplishments. What if you described what you did like someone taking credit? Like you may have turned in a report, but that guy is pretending he increased shareholder value 2% lol

    2. Purple Cat*

      Well the obvious solution is to start looking for a new job.
      To go along with that, someone I know has made their own “brag book”. Every “good” thing that they do at work gets noted and so whenever they’re updating their resume, prepping for an interview, or just need a boost they go back to their book to remind themselves of all the good work they have done.
      You have to proactively combat their negativity with positivity of your own. Bonus points if you have a coworker in a similar situation and you guys can act as cheerleaders for each other.

      1. How to recover professional confidence?*

        That’s a good idea. I have an interview next week so that will also help me prep for it (honestly, I have some interview fatigue going on right now… but I got praise from a high level executive just last month and I need to remember that!)

      2. Also not a fan*

        I have an email folder called ‘testimonials’ where I park meaningful feedback. It has been really helpful during downturns when job/program cuts are happening or I’m feeling like my job is just back-office paper shuffling.

      3. Quiet Liberal*

        My spouse and son, both teachers, have files they label “Proof I don’t suck”. They put accolades from peers, administrators, students and parents in it as well as notes to themselves about accomplishments.

        1. Gary Patterson's Cat*

          I think this is a good idea. But what if you have a boss or manage who you know will refute it?

          Me: “I ran a marketing campaign that resulted in xx leads and $xxx,xxx revenue.”
          Manager would say: “Oh, they ran some marketing campaigns that never resulted in anything in the way of new business. Sales did all that, not Cat and her marketing.”

          Obviously, I would not give them as a reference, but when job hunting sometimes people will call or reach out on LinkedIn anyway. I know I”m not the only one who worries about sucky ex-managers like this. And really, how can you prove it? Not like you can share a former company’s revenue.

    3. Not Today, Friends*

      I’m so sorry. When I went through it, I clung to successes outside work – a hobby that brought me recognition and pleasure. Then when I was getting out of that situation, I prioritized a soft landing. The job I took wasn’t super fancy or anything, but it was full of really nice people who always mean well. That has worked wonders.

    4. Crying Is A Free Action*

      When I worked for my previous boss who was like this I focused on how I would coach myself. When I needed feedback or resources I would approach my boss directly and with specifics. She would try to cut me down but because I was asking for specific things it was easier to see that *she* was actually the one failing by not helping to provide resources/training/support/etc. It still sucks, but after doing this for a while it freed me up to reach out to other contacts for help and that’s how I really was able to improve in my role which was a confidence boost in itself. Unfortunately, it took a new boss to really undo the damage. I hope it gets better soon!!

    5. K C*

      I’m also in therapy thanks in good part to a lifetime of unhealthy workplaces. Snaps for us!

      I’m extremely experienced and fairly accomplished. I mean nothing huge but I’m very competent and trustworthy. It doesn’t always feel that way though especially since the apocalypses going on.

      What has always helped me, and I’m so glad to see others recommend the same thing, is recording my accomplishments at work.

      It sounds sappy but starting about 7 years ago I started working for companies that require you to set yearly goals and to meet them. But… most also let you just fill in the goals at the end of the year just before submission.

      So I’d go through all of my email and tickets and message contents and computer code logs for the year and extract it all out to a massive list. And I think having a truly massive list of fine detail is a good part of the process. Like… it’s a lot!!!

      Then you can whittle it down to the important stuff (and IMHO it’s not just shareholder value stuff but to me anything that simplifies or makes something beautiful, is just as worthwhile). But seeing just the volume of work is a real confidence booster.

      Because it’s all forgotten so easily.

    6. How to recover professional confidence?*

      I’ll add that I’m definitely looking for a better job! The search has been slow and I’ve had to turn down a couple of low ball offers. I deserve better than how I’m being treated, but I also deserve to be paid my worth!

    7. Nethwen*

      What helped me when I felt like a professional failure was to look at qualities requested in job descriptions, not hard skills, but things like being a team player or good at adapting to new situations, and writing out examples from my work life that show I have shown those qualities. For example, I have no desire or qualifications, to work in finance, but I have examples from my work life of how I meet everything in the job description except for the finance-specific ones. That made me feel better, for some reason.

    8. Cookies for Breakfast*

      “An unpleasant boss tearing you down in a “death by 1000 cuts” kind of way” is exactly where I was a year ago. Sending virtual hugs if you want them, and best wishes for things to improve.

      I can’t claim I’ve been good at staying sane throughout 2021 (very much the opposite). Still, I had some very welcome “keep the faith moments” that felt like bright spots, and I have two things to thank for them – one work-related, one not.

      Work-related: no matter how unemployable I felt at times, once I made the decision to start job searching, I knew my situation had an expiry date. The hardest part was not knowing how many minutes, hours, days or months the clock was counting down, until a new job offer came in. Even so, once I started taking steps towards getting the hell out, I knew that reframing from “this is the bad job you deserve and you’ll be stuck here forever” to “this is only temporary because you’re doing what it takes to change” was always available to me. That, and not getting any more invested in some of the dysfunction around me, because I knew at some point I wouldn’t be around to deal with the fallout.

      Non-work related: music I love. It helps me process, reflect and heal. Last year, I was lucky to come across a few songs that were new to me, at exactly the right time – they spoke to the way I was feeling (quite literally! I discovered most through the artist interviews in the Song Exploder podcast, and I’ll be happy to recommend some episodes if that sounds up your street). Where I least expected it, I found words that helped me define the feeling of not being enough and not fitting in I couldn’t quite express, realise that one big reason I believed it was my own brain lying to me, and gain some hope I could build a different relationship with myself to make it through.

      I hope this can help a little bit. And well done on the therapy. I don’t know if this is the issue that got you started, or you’d been doing it for a while, but as someone who should have found a therapist yesterday and is paralysed by worries about not finding the right one, you’ve got my admiration, for what it’s worth. Keep going :)

    9. Khatul Madame*

      Make a STAR (situation, task, action, result) table for commonly asked behavioral interview questions, for example “Tell me about a time you had to deliver bad news to management”. This will help you recall situations where you did well, and help prepare for a STAR interview.

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        This is great advice!
        We do something similar for each client project (client needs, what we did, value provided) and it really helps.

    10. The Lion's Roar*

      My main advice is to get out. You don’t have to feel like this!

      This might not happen to you (I had existing anxiety issues that were manageable until this situation kicked them into overdrive), but I stayed under a toxic manager who hated me for YEARS because I loved the work, I loved the team, and I thought I could handle her. Eventually, though, it completely destroyed my confidence – even after my grandboss got concerned and had me moved to another team, I couldn’t recover. I left the company and took time off, and when it was time to job hunt I had a really hard time believing anyone would even want me.

      I have a new job now and things are much better, but I’m still really untangling all the ways that manager messed me up. In terms of rebuilding…really try to focus on your successes, your results, and the feedback you’re getting from anyone BUT this manager. In my experience, though, as long as you’re still under that manager all that can do is help you tread water. It’s a lot easier to build back up when you’re not being cut down anymore.

    11. Anonymous Koala*

      Honestly just give yourself time and grace. This stuff doesn’t happen overnight, and healing from it takes just as long (or longer). Lean on your support system, put in as little mental and emotional energy at work as possible while you try and find a new team, and (if you can) cultivate new hobbies or activities so you can feel a sense of accomplishment in a supportive environment and remind yourself why you are amazing. :) But mostly recognise that healing will take time, and give yourself grace.

    12. matcha123*

      I have been in your position for decades. I knew that my work was good, maybe not perfect, but very good.
      However, the feedback I received from direct supervisors was poor. I could tell they were being nit-picky. They would be okay with others turning in poorer quality work, but mine would be criticized.

      It breaks down your confidence and makes you feel stupid.

      If you are able to extract yourself from the situation that’s putting down your mood, do it asap. I was pushed out of my situation. Things have been so much better now that I don’t have to think about judgement from another person.

      If there are are other people around you who speak positively of you and your work, lean into that. It is hard. I had people around me who were telling me they were impressed with my work, impressed with what I was doing, praised for my work, etc. And none of it was getting through to me. I was so focused on the, usually one, person who was making it their job to make me feel like garbage.

      On an intellectual level, I knew it wasn’t me. But because other people weren’t speaking up for me, I felt like I was dumb. It’s not you. Others know that the person putting you down is in the wrong, but they aren’t confident in their own abilities to step up and speak out. If you can get out or take a long break, do it.

    13. Lily Rowan*

      Probably not helpful, but after I got fired, I just went to grad school full time! I had already been thinking about it and planning it “for later,” but it was amazing to have a full break to rebuild my confidence (I am a good student). And my next job paid enough more to cover the student loan debt.

      So don’t discount crazy ideas, is I guess my advice.

    14. Hey Nonny Nonny*

      I don’t know if I have real advice here, but I have definitely been there. Ten years ago, I worked in a really toxic environment for about 7 months where I was nitpicked and talked down to and expected to be a mind-reader. And even that doesn’t sound as bad as that place made me feel. “Death by a thousand cuts” is the perfect description. I was just so miserable. After a lot of angst where I struggled to define why it was so bad, I finally accepted that I didn’t need to justify whether it was actually an abusive environment when I could just accept that it was toxic for me, and make a move to get out. I was very lucky that my previous employer was happy to take me back. So in my case, in addition to the sheer joy of getting out of the toxic job, I was back on familiar ground, which made it a lot easier to get my feet under me again and rebuild my confidence.

      I think getting out of the bad environment/away from the bad boss is the most important thing, though I know that takes time. Beyond that, hoard every bit of good feedback you get and every time you have that “I got this” feeling. I also tended to remind myself that I’ve worked with plenty of people who think well of me, even some pretty difficult personalities. So the fact that I couldn’t work well with the boss at the toxic job? I’m putting that more on her than on me.

      I don’t know if any of this is helpful, but these are my thoughts from when I was there. Do your best to keep your head above water, and know that when you get to a new job, things will get better (though be sure to do your due diligence on the new job to make sure you end up in a better environment).

    15. Cedrus Libani*

      I’ve had that boss, and yeah – it’s hard not to internalize it, even when you’re 1000% sure you’re not the problem. What kept me sane until I could escape: making sure there were other things in my life that I cared about. Yeah, work sucks and I suck at it, but I just hit a new personal best in the gym / learned a tricky new technique for my craft project / etc. My entire life doesn’t suck, I am capable of not sucking, it’s just my job that is a ginormous pit of suck right now.

      I did get beaten down to the point of having to go on anti-depressants, which meant going to therapy also (required by my healthcare system in such cases), which I desperately did not want to do. But I went, and the guy spotted it immediately. “You seem to have good coping skills, but you don’t use them when things go badly at work. Why is that?” “But if I can’t do my work, I’m worthless. I suck at everything else, but I’m good at my job, that’s all I’ve got…oh. That’s why I’m depressed, isn’t it?” Yeah, it was. And I had to fix it. Wasn’t an overnight fix by any means, but I made a point of expanding my life, and it worked.

    16. WantonSeedStitch*

      Ugh, I had a manager like that in my very first non-temp job out of college, so I DIDN’T know for sure if it was him and not me. Getting a new job and interacting with a decent manager made all the difference. If you’re lucky enough to have more work experience than I did at that point, it might help to write down your accomplishments from other roles, and maybe all the praise you can remember getting from previous managers.

    17. Hillary*

      This is a situation for fake it till you make it. Try to reframe the a**h*** in your head to what your best friend/partner/mom/biggest cheerleader would say. So-and-so would say I’m awesome at TPS reports, I don’t suck at this, boss is just a jerk. As others said, get out if you still work for unpleasant boss, they aren’t going to change. Practice your interview questions & answers, especially framing with I (not we) and taking full credit for your accomplishments. And not disparaging your boss even though he’s a jerk.

      I focused a lot on what I can and can’t control when I was going through this. Ultimately I was able to let some of it go, but it took a new job and better atmosphere to get to a better place long term.

    18. Jax*

      Freely compliment others around you at work.

      While you’re creating your own brag book, start looking around and noticing the great work others are doing around you, and sincerely compliment them. You’ll be on the look out for positivity, while also throwing your own positivity back into your workplace.

      You likely aren’t the only person miserably suffering death by 1,000 cuts from your boss. Boss goes low, you go high! Make it your mission to be the exact opposite of your boss, and encourage those around you. It takes a certain bravery to offer a compliment (especially in a toxic environment) but each little step you take to BE THE CHANGE you yourself need will help rebuild your confidence.

    19. irene adler*

      Ouch!
      A round about way would be to undertake some task that you don’t normally do and make a success of it. Sure, bad boss may not think much of the accomplishment. But you will.

      My story:
      My boss of over 2 decades was not one who supported any kind of professional enrichment. Never had my back either.
      When I completed additional education/certification in my field, my boss ignored this. So I never had a chance to put my knowledge to work.

      Tried for years to find other employment. No dice. Even applied to entry level positions because I figured I didn’t qualify for anything higher. Nothing.
      Boss retired. No replacement. The position eliminated.
      Now I report to the CEO.
      And all the tasks my boss used to do?
      Well, I split them with one other person.
      So I got the chance to put my knowledge and certifications to work. Turns out, I have some mad skills in that department.
      CEO very impressed. Gave me a $10K raise (sure, that doesn’t even come close to what boss earned).
      Yes, I’m still looking for another job. I have fresh accomplishments on the resume. I feel like I have the ability to accomplish more. And no more entry level jobs for me.

      1. Hunnybee*

        That’s awesome, Irene Adler! Congrats on making yourself seen and valued in a tough situation.

    20. Green Goose*

      First, get away from that boss. The healing cannot really start if you continue to work for someone like that. I had a confidence shredding boss for 18 months and I felt like I was stuck, since my confidence was so low working for someone that micromanaged and belittled me and put me in a near constant state of unease. It was only after he was fired (hooray) that the fog cleared and I realized how bad it was, and things immediately got better. I still needed to heal but I truly could not think clearly when I was working for him. So if there is an option to leave, I’d do it.

    21. Really?*

      I had one of those. I was totally demoralized replacing someone who was infallible according to the boss and I was just a pale imitation. Funnily enough, I finally met my predecessor who told me she had the same experience with boss. That’s when I realized it was a “him problem” not a “me problem.”
      In any case, my best suggestion is to keep in touch with any former colleagues you got on well with and respected and talk to any prior bosses that you may have worked well with. Tell them you are looking for new opportunities and ask them about your strengths, and what they would recommend as next steps. For me, this was the easiest form of networking. And my last three jobs came about when prior bosses/colleagues realized I was looking for another position. I would note it also helped that I was willing to move.

    22. Hunnybee*

      Thank you so very much for posting this……same situation. I ended up quitting (with nothing lined up) to get away from the nightmare boss, and still feel both completely defeated and exhausted although it has been a few weeks since I left.

      I will say that my self-confidence is slowly returning, but it’s not a constant. Some days I start to feel better, other days I feel completely depressed. I’m hoping that the better days will increase over time.

      I hope you’ll find something to reaffirm who you are and reconnect with other things that have meaning for you in life. That job and manager shouldn’t be allowed that control over your emotions…although I fully understand how that happens.

    23. Chilipepper Attitude*

      Honestly, I read AAM as a lifeline. There is advice here to observe the chaos as an indifferent observer, like get out the popcorn and watch the show. That helped some. It took a while to develop that sort of indifference but practicing it was helpful on its own.

      And really, the best thing has been getting a job somewhere else. I almost withdrew from the process for the job I have now because I did not believe in myself. But I am so happy I stuck it out and so many of the problems just lifted for me now that I am in a new environment!

      I still catch myself doing things that are a holdover from the toxic. But over time I am weeding them out.

      I wish you the best! Be kind to yourself, its a process.

    24. tamarak & fireweed*

      I had to crawl out from under confidence-destroying situations a few times. It was hard at the beginning because I wasn’t prepared for it. These days, I’m a lot more vigilant…

      There’s no surefire recipe, but what I’ve found to be key is to remove yourself from the presence of the confidence destroyers as much as possible and seek out the company – personally and professionally – of people who value you and build you up. Therapists and professional mentors can be helpful on the way. In retrospect, the main thing I’d do differently is to set my bar for what’s an acceptable situation to keep persevering in much higher – I should have gotten out, not joined an opportunity etc. much earlier when these opportunities were poisoned. Good luck!

  4. UX writing*

    Anyone break into UX writing from another field? I’m a technical writer looking to make the jump. I have experience writing UI text, but only in an ad-hoc informal way.

    Scouring job ads tells me I should teach myself Figma, but any other suggestions would be appreciated from people in the industry.

    2. tamarak & fireweed*

      I would look in the direction of a lightweight certification, plus personal projects, plus making sure you know the relevant toolsets – since you presumably don’t have time to intern somewhere.

  5. Frankie Bergstein*

    What do you do when you’re at the BEC stage with a few coworkers?

    Here’s my issue: I’m going to a department retreat next week — it’s on Zoom. It’s two days, 6h/day. The dynamic of my department is that the same few folks do ALL of the talking — they really do hog all the air in the room! They also repeat themselves a lot. It makes me feel so annoyed. I really want to hear a greater diversity of perspectives. In particular, I’m so interested in what the newer folks think.

    Here are constructive solutions:
    -when the talkers interrupt, call them out. “Hey [talker]! I was really interested in what Grace was saying – – Grace, do you want to finish your thought? That was such a good point.”
    -at the beginning, say that I’m so very interested in what the newer folks have to say. Encourage them to speak up by naming that no one has the skills and experience that they do, that if they joined during the pandemic (we are all remote) they’ve had a unique experience and their perspectives are so so valuable.
    -Turn off my camera and take breaks as I need
    -In the sessions I organize, I will be using multiple ways of engaging folks — audience polling, mural/jam board and the like.

    Unconstructive solutions/nonsense:
    -when the talkers get going, take that as my cue to multitask. Occasionally check back in to see if the conversation has moved to someone I do want to hear from. (I don’t want to do this!)
    -curse the talkers under my breath silently

    What is your advice? How do I keep from getting angry with my floor-hogging loquacious colleagues?

        1. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

          If you want to hear from everyone, similar to “going around in a circle” or “going around the table” in-person, you can also tell everyone to raise their hands, wait for them to do so, and then have them lower their hands as they speak to get a running queue of who hasn’t spoken yet. Anyone who re-raises their hand after it was lowered automatically goes to the bottom of the hands raised list, so it makes sure that everyone gets a chance to speak before anyone’s second chance. (In a large group, there’s no good way to detect someone who chooses to lower their hand to drop out of the queue because they don’t want to speak, but that doesn’t sound like the problem you’re having.) Since Zoom unfortunately puts each person at the top of their own participants list people can’t easily see where they are in line, though, so it’s helpful for the facilitator to say things like “now we’ll hear from Fergus, and Wakeen is on deck after him, followed by Jane” to keep people aware of when their turn is coming.

    2. Purple Cat*

      A 2 day zoom retreat sounds like absolute torture.
      Is there a moderator of sorts running this event? Unfortunately it’s really up to them or someone above you to manage the conversations. Attempting to interrupt the interruptors will not go well. (I’ve been struggling with this with a coworker of late). Proactively asking the newbies for their input might help, but also might put them on the spot in an uncomfortable manner – like they’re being “called out” rather than “called on”.

      1. Frankie Bergstein*

        There is, but they’re not the types of folks to proactively manage the conversations. In other words, they’re just not very good facilitators (they have other strengths, they’re good colleagues, etc.).

        Good point about making the newbies feel uncomfortable – that’s very much not my goal.

        1. Damn it, Hardison!*

          You have some some great ideas! Could you volunteer to be the facilitator, if the meeting leader is open to it? Also, what about laying out meeting norms at the beginning? People shouldn’t interrupt, make sure you aren’t hogging the air time/let others speak, etc.?

          1. Seeking Second Childhood*

            My company has a policy that big video calls have a presenter and a moderator. The moderator reviews incoming chat questions and mutes/ unmutes people as needed. The presenter is the one who hits the important points and then asks the leading questions, selected from ones the moderator shares as most relevant or interesting. Both people are ideally going to have 2 monitors. The second monitor allows them to view administrative stuff without sharing it with the whole call. It is where they will set up their private chat and emails to display, in case someone messages them saying Fergusena is being too noisy again.

      2. Frankie Bergstein*

        Also – tell me more about interrupting the interruptors not going well – I’d love to hear more! I’m sad it’s not working though.

    3. NeedRain47*

      Your constructive solutions are good!

      Who is leading the retreat? What would be most helpful here would be to have a moderator, preferably someone from outside the department, who can ensure that everyone gets an opportunity to talk by simply taking turns calling on people. If there’s no external person who can do it, maybe talk to whatever supervisor or higher up will be there if you have a relationship where you they won’t think you’re picking on the talkers.

      1. soontoberetired*

        the leader of the sessions really should be stepping in, if your not the leader. Have you talked to them? I know some places people are reluctant to cut off those who take up more than their fair share of time, but someone’s got to do it.

        and condolences on the all day zoom things. We have two day zoom planning sessions and they are torture.

        1. Frankie Bergstein*

          Thanks :) I have told the leaders that sometimes our discussions are less-than-constructive because the same people take up all the airtime — but I can be more direct about it and say “and you should do something about that.” (I do have enough social capital/the relationships where I can say that sort of thing now.)

      2. Frankie Bergstein*

        This is a good point. This shows me that what I *can* actually do is quite limited if the moderators can’t/won’t do much. For the sessions I’m leading, I will be calling on folks as you’ve suggested, in addition to taking anonymous feedback in writing.

        1. Richard Hershberger*

          For the sessions you aren’t leading and have no control over, frankly I would take your unconstructive idea and multitask. The ability to do something useful when the meeting devolves into blather is the one advantage of Zoom meetings. Embrace it. If the people who are supposed to be running the meeting aren’t keeping it on track, it is wasted time. Use it to catch up on your email.

          1. Seeking Second Childhood*

            A side thought for you. You are running a couple of these sessions… could you declare one of yours to be a zoom break and turn off the video? If it goes over well, maybe the other presenters would do the same thing. And then you could do what I do in long no-video meetings and pick up a craft project to keep my hands busy. (A lengthwise scarf is my favorite because it’s the same stitch for three feet no thought needed. And it doesn’t show tension changes anywhere as near as much as baby blankets!)

    4. irene adler*

      How about issuing an agenda – with the start/end time indicated for each item?
      That way you are perfectly justified to interrupt and state things like:
      “we’ve only got a few more minutes before 9:15 am when we move along to agenda #2.”
      “getting close to the agenda #2 item that begins at 9:15. So how about we give the floor to Mavis and then Jake? I know we are all interested in their take on this topic.”

      Or, make a rule that discussion goes in order. That is, when the topic is introduced, each participant gets 1 minute to talk. Then move down the order to the next participant. Move down the attendee list in alphabetical order- or assign numbers to each attendee. No talking out of order. Get an hourglass or other visual aid so folks can see their one minute time passing by.

      1. Frankie Bergstein*

        This is a great idea. I think the second suggestion – where each person gets one minute – would be so different than what this group is used to doing that it’d be hard to make them take to it for 1.5 hours out of two days, but the first idea is perfect. I’ll use that for my sessions :)

        1. irene adler*

          The 1 minute time limit is arbitrary.

          Just make sure folks get an agenda and can see for themselves the time periods.

          1. Seeking Second Childhood*

            I’m full of silly ideas today period What about aiming your camera at a sand timer and keeping track of the people who finish their comments within that time period? And then give an ‘efficiency award’ to the people who make at least one comment and don’t go past the dial…

            1. irene adler*

              I like the camera on the sand timer.
              Betting those who receive the award are the ones who chafe when the chatterboxes go to town.

        2. Kuddel Daddeldu*

          I have used that with mixed results. We got a lot of repetitions plus many people furiously thinking what to say instead of listening.
          I make it a point of calling the ground rules on not hogging the floor atvthe beginning. If necessary, I’ll call out the worst offenders (my boss and me, in that order, but I’m very conscious a out it and rein myself in).

    5. ArtK*

      The problem here isn’t the talkers, it’s whoever is supposed to be moderating the call. Can you reach out to them in advance and discuss the problem?

      1. tamarak & fireweed*

        Yes, THIS. The OP needs to incrementally change the way Zoom meetings are moderated.

    6. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Get buy-in from your manager to mute everyone until they raise their hands.

    7. Elizabeth*

      Could you all take ~10 minutes at the beginning of the day to establish group norms? I have found it’s a great way to break the ice or get people warmed up, and then you have something to refer back to (if not in person, a notetaker could post them to the chat or share with the group in some other way) and hold people accountable.

    8. Double A*

      Do you start meetings with norm-setting? If you’ve never done it, discussing norms can be helpful. If you do have norms, do you have one that relates to monitoring your airtime and ensuring everyone has a chance to contribute?

    9. Dinwar*

      Part of the problem is that new people are going to be uncomfortable speaking in front of a crowd. It’s part of being a newbie–you don’t want to make a fool of yourself. If you want their perspectives, it may be better to schedule time to talk with them individually. If that doesn’t work, you may want to do break-out sessions with each group having a mixture of more senior and more junior colleagues.

      One thing that I do is have sidebar conversations via IM with folks during long Teams calls. Mostly we discuss things on the call–like “Okay, Joe said we need to do X, so I’ll call Alice and you work with Janet to do Y and Z that we’ll need to do, and is Bob available?” Active listening, in other words. (Well….mostly.) You can encourage the junior staff to do likewise. They probably would be more comfortable sending you an IM than speaking in front of the whole group.

      1. JustaTech*

        Yes about some folks who are uncomfortable speaking in a group. Sometimes that’s why you end up only hearing from a small group of people – they’re the only ones willing to speak up.

        I’ve been in big group meetings where you can watch the folks who’ve been doing all the talking try to stop – the leader or moderator will ask a question and then wait for anyone to respond, and the three folks who’ve been talking are actively holding themselves back, but no one else starts so eventually the silence is too much and they start talking. I don’t know how you fix that without having to just call on people who aren’t choosing to talk.

    10. Triplestep*

      In my personal life, I might interrupt and my closest friends also do. It’s fine – we’re just talking animatedly and everyone always gets to finish their thought. I’ve learned that if I get interrupted more than once, I’m just being boring and I don’t circle back.

      I have one family-member who also speaks this way, but she doesn’t realize it. So she will STOP the conversation to point out that she’s been interrupted. It has a chilling effect on the conversation, and I personally find it humiliating. I will then not only stop interrupting, I will stop even interjecting and commenting, which removes any chance of there being a back and forth dialog. Suffice to stay she does not notice.

      So my suggestion is that you not use the method you outline to stop someone from interrupting. It creates awkward moments and hard feelings, and the people who are getting interrupted might feel embarrassed that awkward moments and hard feelings were created by someone else (you) their behalf. If someone wants to say “wait, hang on” and then finish their own thought, that’s fine. But calling out interrupting by stopping the conversation defeats the purpose of calling out the interrupting.

    11. Really?*

      Establish with the other moderators a time limit for individual comments so that you can get as many perspectives as possible. Then volunteer to be the timekeeper. As everyone starts talking start a timer. When the timer goes off ( make sure it’s audible) interrupt if they don’t finish within a few seconds. It’s done at our local public meetings and it works – no one got more than 3 minutes on any individual topic without arranging it with the moderator in advance. We also request folks not to repeat other peoples points.

  6. Ducky*

    Does anyone have any good resources for how to negotiate charging by piece instead of by hour? This would be for writing work.

    1. Pro Writer*

      Creative Revolt is a great place to start! But also, you don’t have to negotiate anything. If you’re a freelancer, you’re a business owner who gets to set their own prices.

      I usually say, “For a piece in the 1,000-1,200 word range with image sourcing and SEO optimization, my fee is $XXX with a one-week turnaround.”

    2. Maryn*

      The Editorial Freelancers Association (EFA) shows rates for various kinds of writing at both hourly rates and by-the-word rates. Visit https://www.the-efa.org/rates/ and scroll to the lowest part of the rate chart.

      As to how you’d negotiate, you’d need to have a solid idea on how long it would typically take you to write X words that meet your client’s specifications. If you know it will take you two hours of writing, you can set a price based on that chart, beginning at the higher level per word, and setting the lower level as the rock bottom price.

      You can consider discounts for large jobs or regular clients, but at the same time you need to be sure you give yourself a fair wage.

    3. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      For most freelance writing, it usually goes by the word count.
      $x,xxx.xx for 1,000-1,500 words or $xxx.xx per 50-100 word emails.
      For social posts, it’s $xx.00 by the post (go up higher if you’re also making the graphics).

      Unless you’re being asked for some additional kind of research. But then you just add that time in like this.
      $xx.00 hourly rate for research – X-research hours estimated for this project = $xxx.xx

      You can of course work the research rate into the final piece, and it is common to see higher prices for a white paper versus a blog posts or shorter pieces.

  7. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    I have two questions today. What are the paths for people who can’t handle a full time job? I need insurance and don’t have the stamina or mental health for retail. I’m kinda stuck here.

    Also, what are professional ways to register that you’re very distressed? I tried to explain to my boss that my health is failing and I’m overwhelmed but got ” why don’t you write it down?” And ” vitamins?” So ….

    1. It's Time To Get Goin'*

      Camping this thread because these are good questions I probably should have asked myself long ago!

    2. irene adler*

      “Vitamins”?
      Your boss is making health-related suggestions? I trust there’s a medical degree on their wall. Otherwise, this isn’t their place to make such suggestions.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        I can’t think of a professional way to say ” lady, I got Instagram too”

    3. Minimal Pear*

      I am very disabled and can’t work full time and I found that temping worked very well–now I’m in a non-temping part-time admin position! However, while I was temping, I did not get health insurance through the temp agency. I believe I would have been qualified if I was working more hours, and/or if I worked there for longer? Not sure. At the place I am currently working part-time, I could get insurance if I wanted to. It would be about a quarter of my income, though.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Interesting. I’ve never gotten a job temping. I put in my resume and like…nothing happened?

        1. Minimal Pear*

          I found that I had to send mine to several temp agencies, before one temp agency called me in for an interview. In limited quantities I can be pretty charming, so they liked me enough to set me up with an interview for what became my first job pretty quickly. I also had some specific expertise that was useful for that job, so that helped.

          1. ferrina*

            This is really common. Sometimes the first temp agency will work out, but it’s pretty normal to be on file at several agencies. Usually one will eventually latch onto you- the more work you do (and do well), the more work you’ll get.

          2. Seeking Second Childhood*

            The drawback to working through multiple temp agencies is that it is harder to hit the magic point for insurance coverage. You need to ask each individual agency about their requirements for becoming insurance eligible. I bet it will be a little easier to hit that point now due to the current job market.
            Also, practice typing. An easy way to stand out fast is to score ridiculously fast on your typing test with few transcription errors.

            1. Minimal Pear*

              Again, I didn’t end up qualifying for insurance because of how many hours I worked, but while I submitted my resume to multiple agencies I actually only ended up working for one–it just took some work to find that one.

        2. Lady_Lessa*

          Years ago, when I was having trouble finding a job, ( guess partly age related), I finally convinced a temp agency to send me to a warehouse. Worked there, got some confidence back, and was hired where most of the higher ups were also near my age.

        3. RagingADHD*

          You gotta call. Temp agencies are the exception to the “don’t bug them” rule. If you don’t bug them, you drift to the bottom of the pile and they never get around to you.

    4. Anon for this particular question*

      What I did:

      Find a company/position with good cross-training and backup coverage plans. Bear with it by the skin of your teeth for the first year, making use of any and all benefits offered (schedule regular PTO once you have it, doctors, therapist, etc) and then once you qualify, start the FMLA process.

    5. Cottage and Cider*

      I find you get better responses from supervisors if you’re specific about what you need from them. Saying that you’re overwhelmed or distressed doesn’t clue them in to what you need–hence the general, non-helpful advice about vitamins or getting more sleep or whatever.

      Do you want to reduce the number of hours you work, or shift some projects to other people, or change your schedule? Think on what might actually help you cope at work. Then go to your supervisor with that request: “I’m dealing with some health issues that are making it difficult to manage X. Can we talk about changing my schedule/getting someone to help out with X/etc.?”

      You’re not always going to get everything you need, but you’re more likely to find a compromise if you start the conversation with a clear action plan.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        What I need is less work or for people to understand that my work capacity is probably permanently reduced, but I have no idea what the parameters are here or what is possible. ( creating complex plans with no information is almost impossible for me, but apparently everyone else can do it?)

        1. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

          You probably don’t need to create a *complex* plan, just request something your supervisor can answer with a Yes or No or “That won’t work, but how about this instead?”

          “My health is failing and I’m distressed” isn’t actionable, something like “due to health problems, it’s becoming difficult for me to do [job duty/expectation], can we arrange for [suggested accommodation]?” is. The suggested accommodation could be anything that would make it easier for you to fulfill job duties. Less work is an okay thing to ask for, especially if you can suggest a way that would play out in your specific job. For instance, “Health problems have reduced my physical stamina, so it’s becoming difficult for me to groom 20 llamas a day without a break. Can we pass some of my llama grooming responsibilities to other groomers, and can I bring a chair to my grooming station to sit while grooming and rest in between llamas? I think with that adjustment, I will be able to groom 10-15 llamas a day to the high standard our company expects. Is that workable?”

        2. rosyglasses*

          In my experience, unless you have a really understanding company/manager, they probably will not be able to do much to address permanently reducing your work capacity AND keeping you on benefits. It really depends. Most companies have structured their agreements with medical plan providers to have a minimum threshold for hours worked in order to stay on the plan (most commonly 32 hours is the baseline). However you may find one (like ours) where we structured ours to accommodate down to 20 hours of work a week and still stay active on the medical plan.

          Using FMLA:
          The caveat to this is if you are working with a credentialed therapist or doctor that will certify that you need a reduced workload. This can help support an ADA accommodation, and could buy you 12 weeks of full FMLA coverage or 480 hours of intermittent FMLA coverage (one example of this is you work 4 hours a day, the other 4 are under FMLA and will be unpaid but your job is protected and they can’t fire you for not being at work). This doesn’t really solve for the underlying problem though which is that you need a permanent solution.

          ADA Interactive Process:
          By law if a company 15 or more employees they have to work with you to try and find reasonable accommodations, if they discover you have a disability or come to them and say you need an accommodation. You would need to bring them a summary of what your request is, and again, you would need to engage with a doctor or therapist to support your request. The downside is that if they can show that the essential functions of your job cannot be met with your request and there is not another reasonable accommodation that you both can agree to, then you’re out of luck (generally).

          Askjan (dot) org is a great resource for both employers and employees on how to seek accommodations (which in your case could mean a permanently reduced work schedule) and what the laws are in your specific situation. They have advisors you can email/chat with and are extremely responsive.

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Yes, my main problem is that I can’t tell if I’m going to have a good productive week or if my brain is going to be mush. My main problem is executive functioning and cognition speed. I’m hoping to see if they can keep me on prn while I’m looking or maybe they’ve seen a more sensibly paced job in the company.

        3. Hen in a Windstorm*

          You have to start somewhere though. I noticed you did this last week as well; every time someone makes a suggestion you immediately say why it won’t work. Nobody is suggesting a complex plan except you, so try to stop telling yourself this is impossible, complex, overwhelming, etc. Break it down into smaller chunks that are manageable.

          So. If you need less work, start with a number. What’s the hardest/worst? Ask for less of that. 5% fewer hours, 5 fewer reports, 5 of whatever. Try that for 2 weeks to a month. Are things better? Yes/no. If yes, stay there. If no, ask for 10 of whatever. Obviously, I’m making this up because I don’t know what you do, but you can figure it out if you take a few minutes and stop telling yourself you can’t.

          Another suggestion: write this down, get it out of your head. My SO has ADD and used to struggle with the same idea of seemingly endless options paralyzing him. But there aren’t truly 1,000 options. Start small.

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Dude if you see my username again just scroll on by. If you don’t like how my life is or how difficult things are for me, you can go to some group where everyone claims they were cured by using a planner

      2. Picard*

        ^^^ this this this

        Your boss doesnt know what you need. They’re not a mind reader. Be specific. The more solutions you can give them, the more likely they re to grant them.

    6. Hlao-roo*

      For insurance, look at the plans available on the Health Insurance Marketplace (assuming you’re in the US and need health insurance). I think availability/cost/coverage vary a lot depending on the state you’re in, but it’s definitely worth a look to see if any of the plans work for you.

    7. All the words*

      Can you handle a 30 hour week? That’s all it takes in many companies to qualify as full time & get benefits. That’s really all I’ve got. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ll eventually be in the same predicament as my future seems to be to work until I drop.

      1. Generic Name*

        This is what I was going to suggest. My company offers full remote positions, and we have plenty of part-time salaried folks who work 30 hours for full benefits. It pays less than a full time position, of course, and the vacation/sick time accrual is based on the number of hours worked, so it accrues more slowly than it does for full-timers.

      2. Veronica*

        My company did the same. There was a scale for the percent of your healthcare they would cover if you worked less than 30 hours. So if you only worked 16 hours, they would chip in some but not as much as a full-time employee. I spent 2 years working at 24 hours before I went back up to my current schedule.

    8. bunniferous*

      Try the Marketplace. What I didn’t know is depending on income you can use your insurance tax credits ahead of time. Right now we pay nothing out of pocket for insurance (My income was heavily influenced by the moratoriums and has not gotten back to normal yet and my husband is retired.) Check it out!

    9. Burned Out but Cautious*

      I work for a hospital that offers insurance to part-time employees that work at least 20 hours per week. You might look into your local hospitals and see if any have similar policies. Because hospitals run 24/7 they seem to have a higher need for part-time employees to fill in schedules. At my hospital a lot of the employees in secretary and front-desk type roles have retail backgrounds.

      1. Miel*

        A friend of mine works half-time as a clerk at the hospital. It’s union so it pays well ($20/hr), has a regular schedule, and good benefits. Apparently hardly anyone at the hospital works 40 hours/wk – many do 20-32.

      2. Also not a fan*

        My partner works 20 hours a week for a municipality and gets full benefits, barring being able to add family members to her health insurance.

    10. As per Elaine*

      This is rough. I recommend the word “untenable” in discussions with your boss.

    11. Aggresuko*

      It’s entirely possible that your boss does not want to hear your saying that you are distressed (mine certainly can’t take hearing it), though. They may just not acknowledge it unless you start oh, screaming/crying/having a breakdown. Which isn’t great either, though.

      1. Stuckinacraxyjob*

        Yea, you can’t win! If you try to talk business its fine and nothing changes but if you start crying you’ll get fired

    12. Need More Sunshine*

      Many insurance carriers won’t allow employers to have part-time workers on their medical plan, even if the employer wants to extend it to them. (Part time is under 30 hours average per week, for insurance purposes.) Definitely check out the Marketplace and if you’re not working enough hours to be offered insurance through your employer, you’ll get a subsidy on your Marketplace plan. It sucks so much that it works like this in the US, but we’re stuck in it for now. Good luck!

    13. Anonymous Koala*

      The health insurance piece makes this difficult. My advice would be to look for 30 hour/week positions or flexible full-time wfh positions that really cater to your strengths – I’ve always worked full time, but in many of my jobs I could finish my work in under 30 hrs/week without trouble, and since I was wfh no one was looking over my shoulder to ensure that I worked 40hrs / week as long as my stuff got done.

      If healthcare from the market place works for you, I’d advise you to look into contract work in your field. In my field (regulation) it’s usually very flexible, wfh, and allows you to set your own hours.

    14. Aphrodite*

      I work in higher ed in California. We are a unionized college. Hourly (or temp) workers here must work no more than 19.5 hours because of PERS, the Public Employment Retirement System, and they get no benefits. But there are a number of permanent part-time workers who work 20 hours or more. And then we also have employees who are ten-month and eleven-month employees (and work 40 hours the other months). Everyone except the hourlies gets full benefits even if less than full-time ones have to pay more for them. So look into education too.

    15. AllTheBirds*

      Some library systems offer benefits to part-time staff. I’m talking non-librarian roles, like Circulation staff.

    16. Spearmint*

      Many public sector jobs will provide benefits to part time employees. I know at least one state where all employees working at least 20 hours per week got health insurance. I’ve heard anecdotes they public university staff positions may be similar. That said, I can’t say how common or easy to get these jobs are.

      1. Also not a fan*

        My public university offers pro-rated benefits plus insurance to part time employees, but part time jobs are extremely hard to come by.

    17. just a random teacher*

      Depending on the specifics of what kinds of tasks and workload will or won’t work for you, you might look at part time classified jobs in a public school. (Jargon: “certified” jobs are the jobs you need a teaching license for, “classified” jobs are the ones you don’t.)

      We are consistently unable to hire enough part-time SpEd assistants, bus drivers, and custodians, and in the current job market also are having trouble with hiring for some of the more “office-y” classified positions as well. These jobs do not tend to pay particularly well and may also be too overwhelming for you depending on your specific needs, but in my state they do come with benefits eligibility and are part of a union, which can be important if you have a hard time advocating for yourself since your union rep can get involved to help you navigate a lot of situations you’d otherwise be arguing on your own.

      1. Cascadia*

        Private schools too! I work for a private school and everyone above half time is eligible for health insurance, though it is pro-rated. It’s actually hard for us to find part-time people since so many people want full time jobs. And there are lots of jobs in schools that aren’t directly teaching. Not sure where you are in the US, but each region has its own independent schools accreditation network. Find the website for your region and then they usually have a job board that lists every available job that they are hiring for right now. Another suggestion, if you are struggling with jobs that involve executive functioning, is to look for jobs that require less of that skill. Maybe it’s a job working for the postal service, or bring a bus driver, or something that gets you out of an office and into a more active role. Good luck!

    18. Green Goose*

      I’ve never used them but I’ve heard good things about The Mom Project where they find roles that fit within your availability.

    19. AnotherLibrarian*

      At my Uni, you get benefits as long as you work at least 50% time- so 20 hours a week. It’s actually a great option for a lot of people. I’ve had to hire two part time positions recently and I know the access to full benefits (though PTO is prorated) was a big draw.

    20. Zee*

      If you’re only interested in full-time work because you need insurance… I hate to break it to you, but full-time jobs don’t automatically come with health insurance. Fortunately, you can get insurance for yourself on the marketplace. I highly suggest doing that so you can take that one burden off your mind (even just knowing you can walk away from your job if you really need to without losing your healthcare can make it easier to cope with your job day-to-day).

      If you’re looking for part-time work outside of retail, try looking at smaller companies and non-profits for admin work, as they often don’t need a full-time position.

    21. letsbekind*

      In my state, CO there is a Medicaid program called Working Adults with Disabilities program. It’s straight up Medicaid kind of coverage, so dental, vision, and medical including full mental health coverage. It’s a “buy in” program so you get charged about $25 a month. You can work as many hours as you can, you can save money, and there is no cap on your income like regular Medicaid. I had to have my therapist help fill out paperwork, but you resubmit once every 3 years. It has completely changed my life as I’m not able to work full time hours bc of a PTSD issue. I’ve also dealt with going from a full time job to ordered to part time by a doctor. It’s possible and yes it takes some work. Good luck!

  8. It's Time To Get Goin'*

    Maybe weird question: has anyone here worked as a plant merchandiser? I’m a person with severe social anxiety, doing a front desk reception job at a dysfunctional company that is destroying my mental and physical health. I’m fulltime with full benefits, getting $14/hr ($3 over current minimum wage). All these plant merchandiser jobs seem to be seasonal and part-time, but I’m lucky in that I don’t need to work fulltime. I’ve seen this job recommended for people with social anxiety who are good at self-supervision, and I’m athletic and have a lot of experience with plants anyway, so I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge/prior experience of the ins and outs of the job.

    It’s looking like it’d be a lot less stressful than answering phones, buzzing doors, and greeting close to 400 people per day (also…having to ask permission and sometimes waiting for hours for a response to go use the bathroom, eat food, or anything that doesn’t involve smiling at people and answering phones. I’m an adult in their 40s, not a gradeschool kid!) I’m just…so, so exhausted after thirty years of being pigeonholed into the admin-assist type jobs I’ve always hated and that trigger my anxiety attacks.

    1. Professional Merchandiser, Retired*

      Don’t know specifically about plant merchandising, but I did all kinds of merchandising work for over 20 years, it’s great for self-directed people. Depending on what kind you do, you may have to work with other people occasionally, (doing a department reset and other large projects) and you do need to interact with department managers some. A couple of times a year your supervisor may come for a work with, but other than that, it’s mostly do your own thing and set your own hours (within reason.) For instance, the last company I worked for asked us to not come in before 6am and be finished for the day by 6:30p
      The downside is the pay isn’t the greatest; 10-15 dollars an hour depending on what company and not all of them give benefits. My husband had good insurance and I have a small pension from another job so pay was not my biggest concern, and the flexibility was worth it.
      One more thing: if this is seasonal work, it’s possible that it’s contractor instead of regular employment. You get into having to get a tax number and pay quarterly taxes. I didn’t care for that, so I turned down contracting positions.
      Now, where do you find these jobs? I’m not sure anymore, I was recruited for my last job and I worked there for 10 years. It’s possible you could go to Indeed or Monster and input merchandising positions and see if you can find anything. There used to be a job board specifically for merchandising, but last time I looked it was no longer active. If you see someone doing something that looks interesting to you, ask them how they got started, is their company hiring, ect. I had people asking me all the time, and I was always happy to answer questions. Hope this helps you some.

      1. It's Time To Get Goin'*

        This is way more than I was expecting to get on the generals of merchandising when I asked ’cause it’s a fairly narrow topic, so thank you!

        1. Professional Merchandiser, Retired*

          Ha! Ha!! Yes, I’m sure this may have been more than you really wanted to know!! But this IS in my wheelhouse and I was so excited to see a question about merchandising, that’s nothing I’ve ever seen discussed on AAM before. If you have other questions, bring them on!!

          1. It's Time To Get Goin'*

            I wasn’t expecting to get any responses at all haha! I will definitely reply back if I think of anything. I’d never even heard of this job until this week, where I saw someone on an expired social anxiety thread post about how it was a great job for their anxiety because it was largely self-supervised, slow-paced, and plants are very low-stakes; no one is going to make a federal case out of a few petunias dying off in the store display because they got root rot. Contrast that to my current job, where absolutely everything is an emergency, every project was supposed to have been done five minutes before you were told about it, and dropping the ball CAN lead to actual federal court cases. (You can see why I’d want to get out of it!)

    2. Happy at work, finally*

      Funny you bring this up! I recently started as a permanent part-time merchandiser for a company. First time doing a job like this and I Friggin.Love.It. I considered doing plant merchandising because I love outside and plants as well, but I can’t do the early hours the ones by me need and they wanted close to full-time hours for the season. Anyway, I’m a lot like you–40s, been stuck in admin hell, more than done with people, and now anxious and stressed as a result. Today I worked–got in, got my stuff done, got out, done and dusted and I actually feel good and energetic vs sucked dry and wretched. I’m in complete control of my area, my schedule, and how I move through tasks. I’m also adhd, so the constant movement and processes work really well for me. The only interaction I had today was to ask a couple customers if they needed help finding something–and they didn’t, so yay for me! Everyone I’ve interacted with at my company has been wonderfully helpful and kind. I don’t know if I’ve just landed a unicorn or what, but if something about this work is calling to you, I’d definitely recommend you at least explore it.

      1. Happy at work, finally*

        Oh, one more thing. As Pro mentioned above, the pay isn’t the greatest. My teen makes more in fast food. However, I’m not being yelled at by unreasonably angry people several times a shift. For me, the pay cut is worth it.

        1. Professional Merchandiser*

          Amen, Happy!! You just hit on all the things I loved about merchandising. I would still be at it, but I got a new manager and…let’s just say we didn’t geehaw too well. (That’s a Southern term for we didn’t see eye to eye.) I decided life’s too short and I didn’t HAVE to work anymore. Come to find out I wasn’t the only one: I think maybe one person from the original team is still there.

          1. Happy at work, finally*

            I truly feel like I finally found the job meant for me! I’m sorry about the icky manager. It’s so sad when one person ruins a good thing. I hope your retirement is going well!!

            1. Professional Merchandiser, Retired*

              So far so good (retirement) but some days I miss working. I spent many years in another career that paid a lot better, but when I was laid off I kind of fell into merchandising.
              I was like. “where has this been all my life?” Even though I made less than half what I did at former job, it was worth it.
              On behalf It’s Time; where did you find your job? (If you can say with anonymity) I’m wondering because as I said earlier, I was recruited for my last position, but I used to be on a merchandising job board that would reach out to me whenever they had something they thought I would like. That site is no more, so I really don’t know people find out about positions now.

              1. It's Time To Get Goin'*

                Thank you again so much for your contributions to my question! I’m totally willing to take a paycut and loss of benefits if it’s something I can do well and happily long-term. Actually wouldn’t be losing that much if the job turned out to be minimum wage part-time. My current pay is $3 above min, and I’d still have healthcare through Healthcare.gov rather than my current employer if I left, so I’d mostly be losing tangential benefits I’m not really concerned about at this point.

                Re: your question: I haven’t found a plant merchandiser job yet! I Googled the term after I saw it mentioned for the first time a few days ago, and saw job listings through the usual suspects like Indeed and LinkedIn and a major nursery distributor for my state. I’m not sure how reliable those sources are, but they’re what popped up immediately in my search. Since I’m having to wait until I have my own vehicle rather than carpool, it’ll be a while before I can even start to apply to these positions, sadly.

      2. It's Time To Get Goin'*

        THANK YOU so much for this, Happy! You sound like my alternate-universe twin. :) I’m definitely going to look into merchandising as soon as I have reliable transportation. I’m having to carpool with my partner (we work at the same toxic office), but once I have my own ride…look out, world!

        You know, I was so excited to see a job working with plants, it didn’t occur to me until I saw your and Pro Merchandiser’s posts about other types of merchandising than plants. What sort of merchandising jobs would you recommend? You sound very much like your working tastes align with mine–I hate sitting around; I want to go in, do my job and be paid for actually working, and then be done for the day, rather than sitting around waiting for work to come in. (At current job, it’s either ALL HANDS ON DECK CATASTROPHE or do absolutely nothing for an hour or more while stressing over what disaster is going to come next. I HATE it.) The best job I ever had was route delivery for a local parcel service that doesn’t exist now. They didn’t care when I started my workday or how long it took me to do my work as long as I arrived no later than 8:30 and finished no later than 5:30, no micro-managing, hardly ever talking to anyone unless I wanted to. I got paid for a full day regardless of how long it took to sort and carry my route, but I was very suited to the work and efficient, so the long days were well offset by the short days. And I didn’t mind long days because I loved the work so much, anyway.

        The self-supervision aspects you describe highly appeal to me, too! I’m terrible at working under people’s noses and make a lot of mistakes if I know others are around keeping tabs on me, but I do really well when I’m left to my own devices and allowed to handle things on my own terms.

        Again, thank you so much for enlightening me on this!

        1. It's Time To Get Goin'*

          Also, I’m very much a night owl, the kind who goes to bed at dawn to mid-morning if left to my own schedule, so I appreciate the heads-up on early days. XD

          I CAN make myself get up early for something I love, but I’ll be much more effective if I can find something that works better with my natural body rhythms!

        2. Happy at work, finally*

          Hey, my pleasure! And sorry about the delay, I try to unplug on Saturdays! I now wish someone had clued me into this years ago, would’ve save a lot of heartache, so happy to help point you in a direction that might help!! And, we might very well be twins, lol! Before the 08 recession I had part-time job delivering newspapers for a tiny, local news agency–had basically the same set-up as your delivery service, but earlier hours. They don’t exist anymore either. Ah, memories!

          Anyway! So, I found my job on Indeed–I just did a search simply for part-time work, no specific industry as I was just randomly looking with no real purpose or intent–but I went to the company’s website to apply. I’ve also been really picky about what I’ve been applying to. My last two jobs were total “your manager sucks and isn’t going to change” type situations and I refuse to go through that again.

          This is my first RM job and honestly, I didn’t know offhand what all is out there either! I just jumped on the posting I saw and it just worked out beautifully. Since I like rabbit holes, I did a bit of digging around this evening and found that (at least in my area) Google jobs seems to have more postings than Indeed. But you can also trawl through Glassdoor and Zip Recruiter to find postings as they seem to have a lot as well. Sometimes they’re called Field Service Representatives, too. Sometimes they’re listed as merchandiser, but actually cashier positions, so read carefully. Also, I’d recommend searching job postings directly on company websites to see what’s there–pick a product you really like, go to their corporate site, and see if anything pops up!

          If you’re looking for placements outside of plants, I did find postings for the following companies. I am at one of them. Some offer full-time and they all seem to be permanent rather than seasonal.
          American Greetings, Frito-Lay, Hallmark, and Hasbro are the big ones I’ve found so far. There are a couple small places local to me, something similar may come up for you. There is also a company called Anderson Merchandisers that’s nationwide that seems fairly decent, too.

          There is also Retail Odessey/SAS that’s nationwide, but their reviews aren’t that great. I’d proceed with caution there. Could be great though, I can’t say either way for sure.

          I know the place I am at discourages late night work, mainly because a store manager might not be onsite. Personally, I don’t start before 9 am, and my supervisor has been working afternoons/early evenings at the moment. On the whole, they don’t monitor start times much as long as the work gets done! Other companies may prefer a midnight shift, it’s definitely worth asking about!

          All the best to you!! It’s been a really great experience for me so far! I hope you find the place that suits you best!

          1. It's Time To Get Goin'*

            Thank you so much for all of this! Please don’t feel like you have to apologize! I would’ve originally replied Friday myself, but there was yet another (completely preventable) disaster at work, so I stayed thirteen hours, then came home and slept for another fourteen. And that’s another reason why I gotta get out, hahaha.

            Retail merchandising! THAT’S the term I was looking for! I do appreciate the warning about cashier jobs branded as RM positions. RM in general is not a field I’d ever considered before because the job descriptions I’d seen before sounded very different from what you actually do, including a lot of, yes, cashier duties. To learn that there’s actually a very different side to it, and where else to look, has opened up an entirely new world for me, so thank you very much!

  9. lilbrowngal*

    Does anyone have recommendations for blazers or general colors that look good on camera when interviewing on line? (Links extra extra appreciated!)

    I own a black blazer but most of my business wear is black underneath as well, I have black curly hair, and I am dark-skinned, so I’ve found all that black fabric just looks way too dark on camera.

    I thought of finding something charcoal grey but not sure if that would still be too dark, and I haven’t been able to find something light grey that isn’t too boxy anywhere. In a fairly conservative field (finance, law, etc) if that matters.

    1. Alexander Graham Yell*

      What colour is your background? I’m immediately thinking of some kind of ivory + maybe a gold necklace to break up the black a little bit. Not sure where you are, but a ton of the stores around me are super into the spring/summer clothes so they’ve got a lot of options in white/ivory/cream!

      1. lilbrowngirl*

        My background is the Landlord Beige walls of my bedroom so Ivory sounds like a good suggestion!

    2. Pinkbasil*

      I’m in tech so YMMV but I would recommend jewel tones – sapphire, emerald, ruby – still very professional, but a good contrast to a black blouse.

      1. lilbrowngirl*

        thank you! do you have any suggestions on where to find jewel tones in the summer? Totally understand if not, I’ve just literally only been able to find white linen so far and I am terrified of scorching it with an iron

        1. Mockingjay*

          Ann Taylor/Loft stores and their outlets have tons of jewel-tone shells with different necklines – boatneck, crew, v-neck. I just bought a nice red one last week. These are mostly wash and hang dry/tumble low, easy care synthetic tops.

          1. Mockingjay*

            Also, AT and Cato also have business-y, sleeveless tieneck or button-up tops that would look great under a blazer. Again synthetic easy care (not my favorite fabric in summer, but fine to get through an interview or the arctic AC of the main office).

        2. TotesMaGoats*

          I bought several soft buttonless blazers on amazon. 3/4 length sleeve. Polished enough to throw over a shell and wear to work stuff or just to polish up for a zoom session. I have them in 4 colors and will get more. It’s also my go to conference wear with some ankle pants.

          1. All Het Up About It*

            Second these buttonless blazers from Amazon! I’ve got some in basic colors and will be adding a few more to switch things up. They are extremely stretchy and comfy and perfect for an Zoom situation.

      2. Llellayena*

        Do not use green! Green-screen effect is real! If you try to use any kind of digital background or blurring it’ll affect your clothing too…

        If you’re looking conservative, cream or light blue could work. Maybe something in the rust/orange/fall colors range.

        1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

          Don’t use a digital background if you want to look your best! The virtual background creates a halo around your head that
          I painted the wall behind my desk a light, very slighly warmer than neutral grey and put up a large 4x3ft cityscape picture printed on canvas (so no reflections; I actuallytook the picture myselfin a rare event of a clear autumn sky). This gives a clear and crisp background without the halo.

      3. ferrina*

        This was my thought as well. I went to Stitch Fix, but there’s a lot of flexibility. The great thing about interviewing remotely is that you don’t need high quality clothing- the cheaper stuff with a decent cut and good colors show up really well on camera.

    3. lurkyloo*

      Dove grey tends to be universally flattering and sets off so beautifully against dark colours! I own a blazer and a cardigan and they’re great on camera. I’m not sure which gender style you’re looking for, but do a google search :) That and I’m also not sure which country you’re calling from, but I’m in Canada. lol

      1. lilbrowngirl*

        I did not know what dove grey was but I looked it up and it looks lovely – thank you! And I’m on the east coast of the US :)

        1. lurkyloo*

          Ah, SO many shopping options there! I hope you are able to find what you need. Good luck with the interviews!

      2. pancakes*

        That’s a good tip, that is a pretty flattering and definitely professional color.

    4. might be outdated info but...*

      If you can afford it, consider buying that boxy suit and having it tailored to fit. Cost really depends on what you need done but compared to the cost of a nice suit, the tailoring to take it from “meh” to “great” can be really worth it. In my experience it’s usually cheaper than I expect (though to be honest it’s been ~8 years since I took something to a tailor)

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        Oh, definitely!
        And have the tailor do the alterations so it fits well when sitting, in the posture you’d use in a Zoom call. I had a favorite sports coat altered for Zoom and it makes a huge difference (but men’s coats tend to be a bit stiffer so the effect may be less for ladies’).

    6. FloralWraith*

      You might also consider getting something like a ring light. If it’s a conservative field where you would assumed to wear dark colours, this might help in your interviews.

      1. Hillary*

        Even indirect light is key here. I switched to two lamps borrowed from bedside tables, one on each side of my monitor. I tried a ring light, but it reflected in my eyes and even the softest color did weird stuff to my skin tone.

    7. OneTwoThree*

      Not exactly what you were looking for, but I have a suggestion to avoid. Don’t get anything with a noticeable pattern. The pattern tends to “dance” on camera. I have a black and white small checked blazer that I wear with black shirts underneath. It looks great in person. However, I can’t wear it if I’m doing video calls. It’s too distracting.

    8. The Ginger Ginger*

      I’d avoid pin stripe unless they’re large. Sometimes very small patterns can appear to move on camera, so solids or bold/big patterns are better to avoid that effect.

    9. Manchmal*

      You can get blazers in a rainbow of colors at Talbots.

      But a cheaper option would be to keep the black blazer but get a jewel-toned shell or blouse for underneath of it. Maybe that would read as more “professional” too given your field.

    10. Dr. Anonymous*

      Boxy probably won’t hurt you in video interviews as long as it fits your shoulders. A medium blue that’s not too bright also reads conservative. Good luck!

      I don’t have links; haven’t bought a blazer in a long time.

      1. pancakes*

        I’m inclined to agree, particularly if it doesn’t stand out from your desk chair. Do a test with a friend or another device or whatnot, and if you look like a floating head, add a light or bright top underneath. And/or a necklace, scarf, something to break up the big area of darkness. If you have a blazer that’s ok but doesn’t have the most contemporary tailoring in the torso, try not to worth about it because that is going to recede into the background during a video interview or call, unless you’re so far back from the desk that people can see your lap, basically. You’re going to be closer than that, and people aren’t going to see what it looks like standing up.

        If you do your test set-up and it seems like it would be more flattering to raise your computer or camera, keep in mind that the other callers aren’t going to be able to see whatever you use to do that. If the most stable thing at the right height is a grubby box or a couple cans of beans or whatnot, fine, they’re not going to see that. If you’re distracted by it, lean a notepad against it. It doesn’t need to be pretty, it just needs to be sturdy.

    11. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I second the suggestion for better lighting behind the camera. I notice when I only have an overhead light on (or especially any lighting behind me) I look terrible and shadowed, but brighter lighting around/behind the camera makes a huge difference!

    12. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      I think a white shirt under the black blazer breaks it up.
      Or you could try a blue blazer. Medium blues tend to look good on camera. Definitely stay away from stripes or prints or plaids though!

  10. ThatGirl*

    My husband is a mental health counselor at a small urban university. The administration is dysfunctional and his department is slowly falling apart. He’s underpaid and unappreciated. But he felt stuck, for a variety of reasons.

    I finally convinced him to start looking seriously, and he applied for one position two months ago and another a few weeks back. The semester ended and all of a sudden – interviews for both jobs this week! One is this afternoon — send out some good vibes :)

    2. Tired Social Worker*

      Everyone is desperate for LPC’s and MSW’s right now so he should have an easy time landing a job, and has some leverage to negotiate salary and benefits.

      1. ThatGirl*

        He could find a new private practice job in a SNAP, but he wants to keep working in a college setting, so those jobs are a little harder to find and a little more set on pay. That said, either one of these would be a HUGE raise and offer good benefits, I’m sure.

  11. Notfunny.*

    Any management training recommendations besides the Management Center? I am a new manager and would like some training as my academic institution doesn’t do a great job. The Management Center’s options look great but they are all full and I’d like to make a request for this to be funded but need to do so with some lead time.

    For context, I manage a small interdisciplinary academic research center which includes postdocs, some students, and now a part time coordinator – I manage the activities of the researchers but don’t have hire/fire authority. Let me know what you’d suggest!

    1. cubone*

      VitalSmarts! Crucial Conversations is a great course and everyone I know who took them has enjoyed it. I don’t think you need to restrict yourself to “management” training specifically – look for things like leadership, communication skills, diversity, time management for leaders etc. as well. Especially communication. Not to oversimplify other important skills like strategic thinking and problem solving, but I really think a lot of good management hinges on the ability to communicate clearly (as this site shows time and time again).

      Also, while not everyone likes these, I actually loved both a full day MBTI training for leaders I did, as well as taking CliftonStrengths (this was an internal training though, not sure if they also offer open stuff to the public). Reflecting on my own strengths and skills and emotional intelligence was really helpful for me as a manager.

  12. Aspen*

    Hi everyone, a university question here from a student on the spectrum.
    I’ll be off to uni next year and I’m probably going to need to live in halls, due to cost. I’ve never lived away from home before and I’m terrified. For example I’m a huge control freak in the kitchen. If someone else washes up dishes I need to wash them again before I can use them due to fear over not being done ‘properly’. I have some anger management issues and am generally a very anxious person and my rituals help me keep control but I’m concerned that this will be disrupted when living with others (e.g. needing to cook/ use the toilet at a certain time but someone’s using it already, going to make dinner and finding a mess, needing to sleep and have silence but there’s a party.)
    I also have OCD and am really worried for what happens when someone gets sick. My parents understand my seemingly insane reaction to someone coming down with a cold etc (panic attacks, refusing to leave my room and sterilising everything) but strangers will probably view this as rude. Mess makes me anxious, clutter around me feels like clutter in my dead but at the same time I have ADHD and often struggle with executive functioning and when I have bad episodes of depression or anxiety cleaning can be too much.
    I know this makes me sound like I am not mentally well enough to go to uni but I am doing really well right now, it’s just I’m concerned that living with others I’ll have to mask my coping behaviour and end up having a relapse on some of these issues. I genuinely don’t understand how to share living space and whilst my natural response might be to write up a list of rules for everyone and times to use kitchen/ toilet, I’m guessing this won’t go down well.
    I’m sorry this is so long but please if you have advice about shared space at uni, help me.

    1. Minimal Pear*

      Due to your saying “uni” and “halls” I’m wondering if you’re in the UK. If so, my US-specific advice won’t be super helpful, but I will say that generally this sounds like something that absolutely would qualify for disability accommodations–no roommate, maybe putting you on a hall with fewer people, maybe they would even have some kind of on-campus apartment thing, etc etc.

      1. lurkyloo*

        Seconded (from Canada). Alternatively, is there a way to get a small apartment of your own close to school? From what you’re describing, I can’t see you being able to thrive in a dorm-college-too many people situation, unfortunately. :( It’s tough having to mask and I’m sending you all the supportive vibes!

      2. londonedit*

        Halls in the UK don’t tend to have shared rooms – the setup is normally a corridor of 6-7 individual single bedrooms (with doors that lock) that’s referred to as a ‘flat’, with a shared kitchen and sometimes shared bathrooms (though as I noted below, it’s become quite common for each room to have its own small ‘en-suite’ loo/shower/sink pod).

        I was definitely thinking more about things to do when Aspen gets to uni, and not so much beforehand, when I answered below – and I totally missed out the fact that they could absolutely contact the university’s support services and ask for help or accommodations with halls.

        1. Minimal Pear*

          Yeah, I wasn’t sure if the hall I stayed on when I studied in the UK was typical or not! We all had our own rooms with bathrooms, and a shared kitchen.

      3. Minimal Pear*

        Oh one thing to add: my experience with US accommodations has taught me that you’ll have the best chance of success if you get whichever doctor knows the most about your disabilities to fill out the paperwork, and if you discuss with them what you need rather than just giving it to them to fill out.

    2. Purple Cat*

      Have you connected with the student services department at your school? You definitely want to get mental health providers setup sooner rather than later.
      TBH, it sounds like living in a single might be a much better option for you if you can financially accommodate it, not sure if that might be covered under a disability accommodation. By your use of “uni” I’m going to guess you’re not American, so I’m not sure how schools are structured abroad. Here, most freshman would be in a dorm where there are no individual kitchens, it’s all dining halls. How do you do in restaurants?
      It’s good that you’re thinking of these issues ahead of time. I hope you come up with a plan. Also remind yourself that this is a huge adjustment for every student. You won’t be alone with the transition.

    3. brainstorming*

      Coming at this from a US-based perspective, so apologies if these resources are not available where you are. These recommendations are for bedroom/restroom. Reach out to your university to see if they can help accommodate some of your needs in this situation. You may be able to be assigned a private room which could help mitigate some of the stress/anxiety that could come from mess and sickness. I think that it is less likely that you can be assigned a private restroom, but there might be some schools where this is an option.

      Depending on your location, there may be off-campus student housing that affords for more flexibility at a reasonable cost. For example, there are many apartment complexes near my local university where students can rent a full apartment on their own. A downside might be that the apartment complex itself is a bit more rowdy/loud on the evening and weekends compared to a non-student area complex, but you would at least have your own full space.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        My dorm hall had a private restroom for disabled people who needed it. I (disabled) was not given access even though I asked for it and the restroom was right next to my room. Oh but when someone broke their arm they got access, no problem! Ugh. I mostly wanted it because it had separate washer/dryers and it was a trek to the communal ones, plus I’m allergic to fragrance and the communal dryers always had scent left from other people’s products.
        Anyway, my point is that some dorms will have private restrooms haha

    4. londonedit*

      It sounds like you’re in the UK (forgive me if I’ve got that wrong) – it can all definitely be quite overwhelming living away from home/with other people for the first time even without your extra challenges in play. So be kind to yourself!

      Have a look at the options for halls that your uni offers. Even 20-odd years ago when I spent a year in halls, I had a room with what they called an ‘en-suite’ bathroom – it was basically a wet-room pod in one corner of the room but it was my own loo, sink and shower and there were no communal bathrooms. I think that might be helpful for you if you can swing it! Halls in general seem much posher than in my day so you might well find there are private facilities. The kitchen was communal in my halls but we all had our own mini-fridge in our rooms and while basics were available in the shared kitchen, most people kept their own set of plates/bowls/mugs and a couple of pots and pans, and you’d wash up your own things and keep them in your room. Yes it can be challenging working out cooking/cleaning and I think suggesting a rota is a good idea – but be aware that people may well not pull their weight. Also be aware that everyone is most likely dealing with living away from home for the first time, and everyone has their own quirks and standards and ways of doing things that they’ve learned growing up, so you will encounter people who have different points of view when it comes to cleaning etc. You definitely can’t write up a timetable for people to use the kitchen/loo (if you do end up somewhere with shared bathrooms) I’m afraid.

      Another option might be catered halls, if that’s available at your uni – there might still be a small basic shared kitchen, but you’d be eating in the canteen so you wouldn’t have to cook or wash up if you didn’t want to. Most of the time you won’t be allowed to keep small electrical items like a toaster or kettle in your room, but you could also keep a stash of no-cook snacks and food in your room (in a tin or a secure Tupperware) in case you don’t feel up to going into the kitchen.

      I’d also suggest speaking to your doctor about coping strategies – it’s a big change for anyone and it might help to have some ideas in your back pocket for if things do get on top of you. Also reach out to your university’s health centre and support teams once you get there. And I’d suggest letting your housemates know that you can struggle occasionally – keep it light if you want to, but ‘Sometimes I get overwhelmed and I need to spend time by myself; don’t take it personally if I stay in my room!’ or ‘I have a few mental health challenges around cleanliness, so don’t mind me if you see me washing up or cleaning the kitchen’ might go a long way to help the people you’re living with understand where you’re coming from.

    5. Foxgloves*

      Hi Aspen! The best thing to do would be to contact your university’s halls department/ housing office (they will have one!) and the disability office. In fact, I’d probably contact the disability office first, and explain your needs to them. They almost certainly will have come across this before, and might be able to offer things like an en suite room at the cost of a shared bathroom room, etc.
      I will say- most people won’t think you’re being rude, but they will be concerned for you, or might not understand. Hopefully, the housing & disability teams will be able to help you navigate this though- it’s literally what they’re there for. Good luck!

    6. NeedRain47*

      It reads to me like you’re mentally well enough to go to uni, but living in a dorm (as we call it in the US, I lived in them for four years) might not be mentally suitable for you. Does your uni have a mental health office or a disability office? I’d look up either one of those, or even just contact the housing office for the halls and ask them who you can talk to. The fewer people you live with, the better, as it’s less difficult to communicate with one or two other people than with a hall full.

    7. Midwestern Scientist*

      Check out you university’s housing website! Where I went there were several options (for bathrooms: suite vs communal; for bedrooms: single vs double). I had a suite (shared a bedroom with a friend) and we shared a bathroom with another suite. 1 bathroom for 4 people was sometimes a challenge timing-wise but we could control the cleanliness somewhat. My best friend lived in a dorm with a communal bathroom – lots of stalls/showers so no issues with timing but definitely limited control over cleanliness (her roommate moved out though so she ended up with her own bedroom). It may be beneficial to you to really think through which scenarios you can live with if there are multiple options. You can also get in contact with the staff in charge of housing and see if they have any accommodations for your situation. I knew a couple of people who got single rooms instead of sharing (without being charged for it) because they had medical issues that required privacy

    8. EMP*

      Hi Aspen,
      First, I think everyone’s comments to find out what resources your uni has is spot on – ask for help now before you get there and are even more stressed, and see what groundwork you can lay down while you’re in a good space. It sounds like you have good reason to believe living with a group of strangers will be challenging for you and I hope your uni can provide some kind of assistance.

      Second, I would try to focus on what *you* can control about *your* behavior that will bring you comfort. You’re right that writing down a list of rules for your house mates will probably not go over well and ultimately you can’t control their behavior, even if you start out on a good foot.
      What I mean by this is for example, buy your own dish, cup, and set of silverware that you use, wash, and bring back to your room after meals. No need to worry about other people’s germs on your plate, and minimally disruptive to your housemates. Will this look weird? Yeah, probably a little. If people ask you can say you have OCD if you want or just say you’re “germaphobic” and feel better with your own plates, but at least for me this kind of interact would be a net benefit. You may not be able to get your own shower, but can you bring your own mat to stand on when you go to communal showers? That kind of thing. Obviously this won’t work for everything! But planning ahead for what you can control might help how you feel about this upcoming change.

      Good luck! Moving away from home for the first time can be really stressful and not all of us are great with strangers, but at the same time sometimes we overcome challenges we wouldn’t have thought we could handle once they’re in front of us.

      1. Generic Name*

        Honestly, folks in shared living situations having their own set of personal dishes is pretty common, especially in the college years. Those of us on the cleaner end of the spectrum learn that everyone else is gross pretty quickly, so this happens more often than you would think. :)

        1. EMP*

          This is good to know! I lived in a shared-interest dorm group in college which included communal cooking, so slightly different situation/expectations there with plates and food!

      2. pancakes*

        Yes, I was going to say something similar. Rather than writing up a list for rules for others to follow, consider writing up a list of alternatives and coping strategies for yourself that you can consult if you find yourself in those situations. I don’t think you can realistically impose many rules on others, beyond the basics about cleaning up messes after oneself, etc. There are almost certainly going to be people around you who fall short of those on occasion – leaving out the remains of late night take-away food after having friends over, etc. Maybe you can make a list of options for yourself in those situations – a small stash of food in your room that doesn’t need cooking, for example, and a schedule for replenishing it, so that you always have something easy on hand if you need it.

        When I was at school in the US it was normal for us to leave some pots and pans in the shared kitchen, and that was fine in my experience. People were pretty respectful at my school but I didn’t and wouldn’t bring anything fancy or irreplaceable.

        Whenever you’re sharing a refrigerator with a group of people, I think it’s important to have a conversation and come to an agreement about rules for how long things can stay in there before it’s reasonable for others to throw them away if it’s getting crowded or something is going bad.

    9. Irish Teacher.*

      I’m not sure strangers would view staying in your room when somebody is sick to be rude at college/uni. In my experience, a lot of people had times when they stayed in their rooms a lot, either because they were shy and preferred not to be around everybody or because they had a lot of work on. If somebody avoided the common areas for a week or two, well, firstly, I probably wouldn’t have noticed as about 70 of us shared them, and if I did, I would have assumed that person had an important assignment due and wanted to avoid any distractions.

      You can probably bring your own dishes, cutlery plates, etc and keep them in your room and just bring them down when you are going to eat. Then you won’t have to worry about anybody but you washing them.

      Admittedly, my experience is in Ireland, and given your use of terms like uni, I’m guessing you are in the UK or Australia or anyway, not the Republic of Ireland (think they use the British terms in Northern Ireland), but generally, in my college (uni) days, it was perfectly OK if you wanted to stick to your room when at “home”. People varied in ther use of common areas and for some people (I was one of these), they varied from week to week. If I was busy, I spent a lot of time in my room. If I had an easy week, I spent more time hanging out.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        I will add that in Ireland, the norm is for students to go go home for weekends (to the point that my college tended to finish up early on a Friday – around 2 or 3pm, instead of 6pm – and then a fleet of buses ran from the college to a number of small villages that hadn’t great public transport). My impression is that this may be less common in the UK (and possibly other countries?), but it sounds like it might be a good idea in your case, if it is feasible. It would mean you would always know you were going back to somewhere you are more comfortable in a couple of days and you wouldn’t have whole days with no classes hanging around the halls.

        Will you have to share toilet facilities? When I was at college, we did, though even then it was 7 or 9 people sharing two toilets, so the odds of one being in use when you needed it were low (I think I could count on one hand the number of times it happened my four years at college, and even then you could always go and use the facilities on the next landing), but I thought that in today’s world, en suites were pretty common.

    10. Generic Name*

      I’m so glad you came here to ask this question! My son is on the spectrum and in high school, and we are preparing him for living independently/in dorms after high school. It’s scary for everyone, so in that you’re absolutely not alone. :) One thing you can do is call campus life or talk to the university’s mental health department and ask them about who you should contact about pursuing disability accommodations for your living arrangements. One thing you could ask for is a tour of the halls prior to moving in. You don’t necessarily need to see your exact living space, but it will give you an idea of what to expect. Dorms/halls could be anything from a room shared with one other person with no kitchen facilities and shared bathrooms, to more apartment-style living. I actually don’t think drawing up a list of rules is a terrible idea if it’s a group effort between you and your roommates. Meaning don’t come with a list that could come off as demands, rather sit down with the people you’ll be living with and come to an agreement on things like quiet hours/lights out, if overnight guests (friends or romantic partners) are allowed, etc and write all that down. You could even sign it like a contract. Back in the day when I was in college, the university sent me a questionnaire asking questions like if I was a smoker (this was 20+ years ago), what time I went to bed, when I planned to study, etc. to help “match” me with an appropriate roommate. Don’t be afraid to advocate for yourself, and if you aren’t sure how to do that, you can ask someone for help. When I was in college in the US, everyone was assigned an advisor, so if you have a point of contact with the university, that would be a great place to start.

    11. FloralWraith*

      Hi Aspen,

      In addition to all the other very useful ideas, you might want to consider the possibility if you could move into something like a postgraduate dorm. Those might have more privacy barriers than the usual undergrad halls. I know that some unis over here have the possibility of choice available, and you might want to see if this is something the housing department at your university can offer.

    12. RagingADHD*

      Certainly, ask about accommodations as others mentioned. And find out the specifics as far in advance as you can. As some mentioned, cooking and dishes may not even be a factor, since many dorms/residence halls don’t have kitchens or allow cooking in the rooms.

      As for dealing with others when you do have to share some areas, the main thing is communication and mutual respect. No, you cannot write up “rules” that other people have to follow. But you can tell people about your needs and ask them to collaborate with you on setting up a schedule or making agreements that work for *all of you.* Most people will likely be able to be flexible. The biggest factor in getting buy-in for people to work with you, is to make sure and acknowledge that their needs are also valid and worthy of respect.

      People are unlikely to think you are rude for isolating or cleaning things if someone is sick — as long as you are not doing things that impinge on other people’s space or belongings. For example, wiping down the lightswitches and doorknobs – great. Most people would thank you. Taking someone else’s things off their desk to clean them, or throwing them away? Not okay.

      Re-washing dishes before you eat? Nobody will really care, if they even notice. Spraying Lysol in someone else’s space, or fogging a common area with chemicals? Not okay, because other people may be sensitive to the smells/fumes.

      It comes down to the boundary between doing things for yourself, and doing things that impact others. In any area where you are sharing, talk things out ahead of time.

      Good luck!

      1. Not A Manager*

        “But you can tell people about your needs and ask them to collaborate with you on setting up a schedule or making agreements that work for *all of you.* Most people will likely be able to be flexible. The biggest factor in getting buy-in for people to work with you, is to make sure and acknowledge that their needs are also valid and worthy of respect.”

        I’m a bit dubious about this. If uni in the UK starts at about 18-19 years old, I think it can be hard to corral young folks into making and following agreements like this. They might agree to set up a schedule for kitchen or bathroom use, but then they forget or something more immediate to them arises. Now the LW is faced with both an intrusion into their expected routine, AND a perceived rules violation. I think LW is better off trying to address their own needs at the university level, and privately, and save any conversation with their dorm-mates for issues that are universally understood to be violations, such as loud noise on a late week-night.

        1. Minimal Pear*

          Speaking from experience as someone who was in a similar situation but with certain needs around cleaning for my physical health: yeah, not to be a downer but it was impossible and everyone was mad at me for asserting my right to a mold-free kitchen.

          1. starfox*

            I would’ve hard a harder time with Aspen’s executive dysfunction on days they can’t clean when I was in college. I’m not a neat freak but I get overwhelmed by clutter and easily grossed out by things like dirty dishes.

            1. Minimal Pear*

              I feel this, it’s such a catch-22. For executive dysfunction reasons I can be kind of a slob, but for physical health reasons I need a really clean environment. I’ve found living alone helps a lot because at least I’m not seething over how messy other people are, and I have more control over the mess/more understanding of when and how to clean it up because I know what went into it.

        2. RagingADHD*

          Yes, I said up front that they should start with official accommodations.

          My point was that in any areas where accommodations are not possible, they should talk to their roommates and try to work things out. No, it won’t be perfect, but it puts them in a better position to manage things relationally and maximize goodwill.

          You don’t overcome the challenges of black-and-white / all-or-nothing thinking by trying to assert it even harder. You ask for help and understanding. That leads to conversations where you may also find the ability to be understanding of others.

          “This is challenging for me.” “Can we work on this?” “Can you help me with this?” Having phrases like this in your back pocket can de-escalate potential conflict.

          1. peasblossom*

            This is great advice, and, as someone who works with college-age students, they are fully able to approach life collaboratively! That doesn’t mean it will happen immediately or perfectly, but, once Aspen has gone to student services, approaching working with any dorm mates as collaborators much more likely to be successful than more rigid methods like imposing rules.

        3. starfox*

          Yeah, honestly, sometimes it’s hard to maintain a strict schedule in college. Classes are at all kinds of different times, and there are always required or social events to go to, etc. It might be easy to agree for Aspen to, idk, have the kitchen at 20:00… but then the roommate has to go see a play for their theatre class and gets in at 20:00 and is hungry.

          Also, unfortunately, I would’ve had issues with Aspen’s anger issues and executive dysfunction on days that they can’t clean when I was in college. I’m not a neat freak by any means, but I’m easily grossed out by things like dirty dishes.

          I agree that getting disability accommodations will probably best for all involved.

    13. Not A Manager*

      I strongly agree with all of the suggestions to contact your university in advance to arrange some structural accommodations.

      For whatever is not covered by the accommodations, I suggest that you try to figure out your own workarounds that do not involve asking your dorm-mates to change their behavior and that don’t require you to just endure something that’s difficult for you. Examples would be: keep your own minimal set of cookware in your room and only use that to cook with. In addition to one set of plates/flatwear, keep a small backup of disposables so you always have something to eat off of that feels safe. If you need to clean a shared bathroom before using it, get small sized containers of products and keep them in an unobtrusive shoulder satchel. Noise-canceling headphones. It sounds like you will have your own sleeping space, which is great. If a lot of noise is bleeding in, sometimes just covering open spaces can cut that down. A rolled towel across the bottom of your door, a piece of cardboard over any vents, a heavy curtain over the window.

      Basically, when small intrusions occur on your own practices and comfort, think of them as individual problems to be solved systemically so they don’t keep happening.

      I’m most concerned about the anger management. I’m very sympathetic to this being an issue for you, but see if you can practice techniques now and work on coping mechanisms. I think you can absolutely manage these issues of communal living, but it will be more difficult if you appear to be requiring your dorm mates to manage them for you.

    14. Zephy*

      You may be able to apply for a single room in a residence hall as a disability accommodation. Contact your school – if they have an Office for Students with Disabilities I would start there, or the Housing/Residential Life department. If you’re not comfortable calling those departments directly, or if you can’t find contact info for them on the college’s website, start with Admissions and they can direct you from there; if there’s a person you’ve been working with to get enrolled, call/text/email them. It is 100% OK to do that, helping you navigate the school’s policies around stuff like this is literally their entire job, you are not doing anything wrong by asking for this.

      What the single-occupancy room looks like is going to vary from school to school, but it sounds like your needs would be best served by a single room with en-suite bathroom, if such a thing exists on your campus. You may need to share kitchen facilities with other residents, but the general expectation in most residence halls that have kitchen facilities is that you bring and use your own food and cooking and eating utensils – the room with the stove/oven/sink is the communal resource, not the pots and pans and plates and such. The other way around your kitchen-related anxieties is simply not to cook, use your meal plan and eat in the cafeteria, but I understand if you also have food issues that make that difficult or impossible.

      Even if you can get approved to live in a single dorm, though, you will also need to develop some flexibility with your routines – I am also on the spectrum and my brain also makes the Google Maps “recalculating” noise if I go to do something and can’t because first I have to do x and I also get agitated and throw tantrums unbecoming of a thirty-year-old lady when there are too many tasks in my task queue, I get it. If you have access to professional mental/behavioral health support, please lean on them and proactively start working to develop strategies to handle deviations from your routine. Because in college, and in adult life in general, your weeks and days are not going to be the same as they were in K-12. Your classes will not meet every day. Even if your high school was on a block schedule with A-days and B-days, you will not be “At School” for a single seven-hour block that still starts and ends at the same time every day. Everyone else on campus is also dealing with schedules that are not the same day-to-day, so you will need to figure out how to do what you need to do in the time you have, and to be okay with it if that means lunch is at 12:30 on Mondays and Wednesdays, but has to be either 11:00 or 2:30 on Tuesdays and Thursdays because you have a class, for instance.

      Best of luck to you. It’s hard out here for us.

    15. Anon for This*

      For context: I am American, but studied abroad in the UK about 8 years ago, where I lived in a catered hall (that catered only breakfast and dinner). I have OCD, too, and my therapist has mentioned to me that I might be on the spectrum (but that’s not confirmed). Here are some of my thoughts on a) how I coped and b) what I wish I had known back then (when I was not yet diagnosed with OCD). And forgive me if this is already trivial information you know or not quite relevant to your situation!

      Some of the things I did to cope back then:
      – I scheduled phone calls / Skype calls with my parents / friends back home on a regular basis to have some support / see familiar friendly faces.
      – I had a private room with a sink, so I kept dish soap and sponges in my room, and, after scraping the food off & rinsing my plates in the kitchenette, did the real scrubbing and drying in my bedroom, where I then also stored my clean plates.
      – The bathrooms were all single person, gender neutral bathrooms which were cleaned by a cleaner, which I found much nicer than American bathrooms. I didn’t end up having any issues with them being occupied when I needed them – you could go to another floor if that was the case. But you did need to remember to have toilet paper, since they would run out sometimes over the weekends.
      – The laundry room had a website where you could check how many machines were in use and plan to go when they weren’t busy, so I did that.
      – I kept shelf stable snacks and food in my room, like nuts, seeds, dried fruit, biscuits, peanut butter, bread, tinned soup, etc in case I wasn’t feeling up to facing the kitchenette/dining hall.
      – I spent the first few weeks exploring the university campus to find quiet spots where I felt safe and also to map out my routes to classes so I wouldn’t be lost/late.
      – I used lots of calendar reminders on my phone to help me remember appointments/classes (that morning, then when I had to leave for the appointment, etc.)
      – I planned out large projects/essays and broke them down into weekly tasks, then also used time blocking to help complete projects/essays on a timely basis.

      What I wish I had also known / had access to:

      – Starting OCD-specific therapy (like ERP) with an OCD specialist before going – if you have access to this, you can ask your therapist to specifically work on the things you’re most afraid of having to deal with before getting to uni.
      – Joining an OCD support group (even if virtual)
      – Like others said, requesting accommodations!
      – I wish I had given myself more grace and understanding. I can’t tell you how many times I cried alone in my room and that was okay – it was hard for me, and it was okay to feel frustrated and overwhelmed sometimes. It was still a great experience overall that I learned a lot from.

    16. Manchmal*

      You seem very clear headed about what your issues and behaviors are that might be difficult or even incompatible with congregant living. Can you work on turning down the dial on some of those issues? I don’t know what kind of therapy or medication you’re on, but it might be worth a doctor’s visit to see if your treatment plan is the best it could be or if it needs an update. Second, could you ask your parents to stop or gradually turn down whatever they’re doing to help you cope so you have experience losing a bit of control, not being able to control your environment as much, etc as a form of exposure therapy. Perhaps that would give you practice drawing boundaries, asking for what you need, or finding other coping mechanisms.

    17. Nancy*

      You need to discuss this with the appropriate department at your university. They can let you know your options for a single room, quiet dorm/floor, etc. Every school is different in what they have for housing options. My dorm in the US had a kitchenette on every floor, but everyone provided their own dishes and whatever else we needed, for example.

      No, you will not be able to write up rules for a dorm to follow or a schedule for kitchen/toilet use, that is not a reasonable expectation.

      1. squeakrad*

        Maybe I’m seeing this a little out of proportion but I also see that you’ve mentioned yourself you have anger management issues. I think this might be a bigger issue than you’re assuming now. Even with accommodations, acting out in anger inappropriately may cause the school or your dormmates to call for you to be expelled.
        You say you’re ready for Uni and you’re just trying to anticipate the kinds of things that would come up. And I think that’s a great step. But honestly I would wonder about the possibility of going to school near your home so you could live at home at least for the first year and then transferring somewhere else. I think the change of living away from home and the added expectations of a university student might be a serious problem for you. And I say this as a college instructor who deals with students with accommodations all the time.

        1. Aspen*

          By anger management issues I don’t mean flipping out at people (I’m generally quite mellow) but more that my emotions can be overwhelming and if something triggers me I might be violent toward myself or have meltdowns (so anger targeted toward myself not others) I’ll try to get out of the situation and calm down, by leaving the room etc but that could be logistically challenging in a shared space and it could be quite alarming for others.

          1. Working Hypothesis*

            That in itself can beat pretty big concern for those around you, if you do melt down in other students’ presence and alarm them. This is the piece I’m most worried about for you, Aspen… the fact is that most people who are going to be with you at Uni won’t already know you, so they won’t have the background to realize that when you scare people with your reactions, it doesn’t mean you’re going to hurt anybody. And some of them will have their own mental health concerns, including traumatic backgrounds that could make them panic badly if they saw that kind of a reaction.

    18. Calliope*

      I think this is all good advice but one thing I’d add since I haven’t seen anyone else mention is it that you need to be prepared for everyone’s schedules to be different every day. It wouldn’t reasonable to ask for a bathroom/kitchen schedule anyway but I think you also need to expect that your hallmates won’t even have routines. They will have different school hours every day, different work hours at various times, probably want to bring unexpected guests home, and you’ll probably have at least one parties who comes in at odd hours and then sleeps till odd hours. So I’d factor that into your thinking – if Jane works till 9pm on Mondays but is home all day on Tuesday then stays out till 3am on Friday, sleeps until 1pm on Saturday, and then brings her boyfriend over to spend Saturday night and hang out all day Sunday, will that create additional challenges you need to think through in advance?

      1. Aspen*

        Holy cr*p I hadn’t even considered that, I’ve been working on the assumption most people have fairly consistent sleep/ wake/ eat schedules but obviously that won’t be the case for many students and yes poses more challenges.

        1. Mad Harry Crewe*

          Not in uni. Also, if you’re in a multi-person space like the halls described above, you and all of your hall-mates will have their own separate not-schedules to deal with. Someone will put all of their classes on Mon/Wed/Fri and spend Tue/Thur around the dorm studying. Someone will have mostly late classes, someone else will have mostly early classes. People will have work or clubs one or two evenings a week. The way that someone’s schedule lines up with friends’ schedules will affect where they spend their time. Some people just… don’t need or want routine?

          Most people do fall into routines more or less, so in a few weeks you’ll start to learn who you can expect to see around at various times, the pattern of when the kitchen gets used, etc – but expect even that to be more of a framework versus being set in stone.

          Some dorm groupings are very friendly and close. Some are distant but it works. Some you’re just trying to get through the year. Sometimes you click with one or two other people and avoid the rest. It really depends. I think the other recommendations to ask for accommodations from the school and get a single if possible are very good. If you are sharing with other people, remember that you can ask to move if it’s awful. It’s worth making an effort to try and get things to work out, but if you’re just a bad fit for the other people, it’s ok to find somewhere else. The school will do their best to match you up with compatible people, but they don’t always get it right.

        2. Cascadia*

          Yes, and it might not even be the case for you! Your schedule will be different every quarter/semester with classes. If you have a job, that will also change quarterly along with your class schedule. Some will prefer to study in their rooms, some in common areas, some in the library. I had days where I didn’t have class until 11am and other days I started at 8am. And at my school, almost everyone stayed out late to party on the weekends and slept in late. In fact, our cafeteria had totally different weekend hours. They opened at 6am for breakfast during the week but not until 10am on Saturday and Sunday, so you literally couldn’t eat there earlier even if you wanted to. College students are all living away from home for the first time and many tend to use their newfound freedom to go crazy. At this age and stage in life, most people just don’t have a lot of routines.

      2. RagingADHD*

        I didn’t think the scheduling issue was that others have to use it on a particular schedule, but that they are willing to let OP have a consistent “slot.”

        IME, there is usually at least 1 person in a group who does have a predictable schedule (whether due to work, sports or temperament), and the others who are more freewheeling usually flow around it. Like, “Susie always gets up early for rowing practice, so don’t make her late by hogging the toilet.”

        1. Calliope*

          I didn’t read it that way but I certainly think that ask is much more likely to go over well.

          1. Calliope*

            (Though I do think it makes sense to prepare for someone coming home drunk and disregarding it too).

    19. Bagpuss*

      I agree with the recommendations to speak with the university- both the housing/ accommodation office and the student support services.
      Most halls (assuming you are in the UK) will be mainly single rooms.
      Some are flat-style where you have a private room, shared living room and kitchen and maybe a shared bathroom, others will be self-contained rooms with an en-suite shower&toilet. Either way will have a shared kitchen but while the university might provide some basic kitchen items it’s common to take your own crockery and cutlery and if you chose to take your own pans, and keep things in your own room, you can. (When I was in Uni we all had an individual cupboard and could chose to buy a padlock to keep it secure)

    20. AcademiaNut*

      I second (third) others recommendations to talk to your university’s accommodations office to find out options and start the process as early as possible. If you can get a single room with ensuite bathroom that will help a lot. If there’s a quiet dorm option, go for that (my university had a dorm that was for more study oriented students – it wasn’t quiet, but it had fewer giant parties). Schedule wise, living in a dorm that has meals in the cafeteria would minimize the amount you need to use a communal kitchen.

      Outside of that, I’d come up with strategies that help you manage without depending on other people – first year university students are, frankly, not great in general about things like following schedules, cleaning up after themselves, or being quiet. Depending on other people to keep your environment a certain way will end in frustration for everyone involved. Also, keep in mind that they’re all living away from home for the first time too, and many will have never actually cleaned or cooked or done laundry before. Their adjustments will mostly be smaller than yours, but still real.

      Keeping a set of dishes in your room would be unremarkable – remember to take them back with you immediately, or they’ll get used by others. Ask about what appliances you can keep in your room (there may be fire code restrictions), but a small bar fridge, a kettle and some ready to eat meals and maybe a microwave would give you an option if you need to eat and the kitchen is disgusting. Staying in your room while sick is also normal; doing extra cleaning is not likely to be noticed, but disrupting other people’s stuff, or spraying chemicals all over the place will cause problems. Good earplugs and noice cancelling headphones are a must. Shifting your sleep schedule might help – go to bed when the dorm quiet hours hit, and sleep in later, rather than trying to get quiet at 9pm.

      For things like schedules, it’s easiest when it’s with a couple of people, and when you inconveniencing them as little as possible. So asking for the kitchen from 5-5:30 every night (fairly early) will be much more useful than asking for the kitchen from 6-7:30 (peak hours, longer time). If you’re sharing a kitchen with 3 people, a schedule might work, with 10 it won’t.

      Regarding meltdowns – I would tell the people you interact with regularly that sometimes you get overwhelmed and need to retreat to your room suddenly, so they don’t get alarmed, and know not to follow you to see what’s wrong.

      From what you’ve said, I would very strongly recommend that you not do a shared bedroom situation, even if it means waiting a few years while you save up money to afford a private room. It would be miserable for both you and your roommate, and likely to implode messily before midterms.

    21. HallsReply*

      Hi Aspen! I have OCD, including some of the symptoms you mention, and I had a great time living in dorms at my U.S. college, and in halls when I studied abroad in the U.K. Here are a few things that helped me:
      1) I thought of the first few weeks as a transitional period. I told myself that I did not need to set up any rules or routines right away—I just needed to see how everything worked. I mentally pretended to be a scientist observing the habits of my peers. If things were weird or hard during the transition period, that was ok because I was just gathering data! Then, once I had a better sense of what daily life was like, I set up more stable routines that worked for me.
      2) I really, really tried to get to know people even when it was hard. There is this magical time at the start of the year where everyone is awkward and no one has friends. It is a lot easier to talk to anyone then than it will ever be again. And people who knew me as “the girl who asked about my necklace and told me a funny story about her dog” were much more likely to be accommodating than people who just knew me as “the girl who is really picky about the bathroom.”
      3) I accepted that I could only control my own behavior, and got creative. I was never going to be able to get anyone to clean the bathroom, but I always wore shower shoes so that the mess did not touch my feet, etc.
      4) I did not waste a lot of time on masking the rituals I really needed. People took their cues from me. If I acted like washing a pan when I took it out of the cupboard was a big, shameful secret, they might have thought it was weird. But a big smile and the phrase “oh, I am just quirky like that!” made it no big deal. No apologies, no blame, just as breezy as you can be.
      5) I had an escape plan. When a situation was too triggering for me, I just left it, set a timer on my phone for ten minutes, and went for a walk around the building. It really helped me manage my frustration and respond to things appropriately.
      6) I discovered that I was really not alone. Everyone you live with will have their own idiosyncrasies. Some will be related to diagnosed conditions, and some will just be part of who they are. I had a guy in my freshman hall who only ate with a spoon—never a fork! A girl who could redirect any conversation back to Harry Potter! A boy who struggled to hide his lisp. When you live with people, everyone lets their guard down as time goes on and you discover that we are all unique humans with unique needs doing our best.
      I hope you have as much fun as I did. It will all be ok even if it is hard initially.

      1. Aspen*

        Thank you this is really good advice especially around everyone having idiosyncrasies and not making a big deal out of it. I have found that to some extent people ‘take their cue’ from you, like if you make something seem like a big deal they react like it’s a big deal and if you act like it’s normal they’ll assume there’s nothing to worry about. (as for spoon boy I went through a phase of only eating my bran flakes with a teaspoon! I didn’t like spilling them)

        1. Mannequin*

          Does anyone actually eat with those spins that are bigger than teaspoons? AFAIC, they are for serving food, not eating it.

  13. Everybody's working for the weekend*

    There was an article in the Guardian recently (“Finding it hard to get a new job? Robot recruiters might be to blame”) which suggested, among other things, using an online resume scanner to make sure your resume matches the keywords in a job description. Have any of you used a resume scanner, and do you think it helped?

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      I haven’t, but my sibling is in IT and they used one recently to check and make sure their resume wasn’t likely to just get thrown out at first pass. It did flag their resume, so they rewrote it until it didn’t but still read like a normal resume to a human reader. They did get a bunch of job offers, but I don’t know whether the scanner made a difference.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I’ve gotten auto rejected for not having keywords before. it’s pretty common unfortunately. I try and keep a skills section at the bottom of my resume now and chuck keyword guesses from the listing in there. Also try and match how they refer to things, “extremely proficient with Microsoft suite” vs “solid excel skills” for instance.

      1. DisneyChannelThis*

        Second comment to add – you can usually tell by the speed. If it’s immediate or within 15min of submitting and you get a form letter rejection, it’s a robot.

        1. Raboot*

          15 seconds, sure. 15 minutes? The person doing the screening might just be online right then. Alison often says it doesn’t take very long to decide to reject a resume.

      2. Chaordic One*

        This! I got to a point where I just regurgitated the job description in my resume and in the online application with extra information added on. Surprisingly it worked and I got a lot more interviews.

    3. Pascall*

      Jobscan was recommended to me. It basically matches your resume up with job descriptions and could be useful with helping you re-word things or find keywords that align with the types of positions you’re looking for.

  14. Minimal Pear*

    I usually like my job a lot, but I’m really frustrated right now and need to vent. Everyone here is busy and overworked, so I’ve always had issues getting timely responses from people. A lot of my work depends on getting info from others, and I am low-level so I don’t have much authority to really press them for answers. However, this week is something else entirely. Every single thing on my (extensive) to-do list requires info from someone else before I continue with it. Some of these are as simple as a yes or no, but even after following up multiple times, I haven’t heard anything! I’ve decided to start working on the lowest-stakes one, where making my own judgement call should turn out fine. This means that there are a number of more important tasks I’m not working on because the stakes are higher if I guess the wrong answer. I have had so much downtime this week. In general, I have more downtime than a lot of other people at this job, because of stuff like this. I would be happy to be delegated upon, but there’s another problem there. I find that generally, when people delegate tasks to me, they do not give me enough information to do it with confidence. I will take my best stab at it, check with them that it’s correct, and… you guessed it! Silence. I had that happen this week with one task, and only once it was already finalized and very visible did the guy point out I’d made a mistake. (I had sent it to him two days before it was finalized so that he could check it for edits. No response.) He did at least admit a lot of it was due to his unclear instructions, although there was one thing that should have pinged as “something is weird here” to me that I totally missed.
    I was thinking about why I had missed that, and I realized it goes all the way back to when I started at this job. At the time, I thought everything was pretty normal. However, we now have a new employee, and the way we’ve treated them is a big contrast to what things were like when I joined. I did not get an orientation. I did not have one-on-one time to talk with my coworkers and learn what they do. I did not get a crash course in the weird and complicated way our organization is put together. I didn’t even have a boss for the first few months I worked here! This new employee is getting all of that, and while I really like them, I’m also jealous. Not having that info and support has been a huge part of why I’ve struggled so much when people give me certain work to do. The thing I missed is something that was linked to information I should have been given if I had any kind of orientation. Or, if not at orientation, then later when I first started to be assigned tasks that related to this area. I’ve managed to kind of figure out the necessary information on my own, but I’m clearly shaky enough on it that I didn’t catch this one error.
    I’m just really frustrated, and this week has been a really bad one for these problems, which are normally at a much more tolerable level. I don’t know if there’s anything I can do, since there’s no way I can change the culture here (too low-ranking). And I do try to ask for more information when people are giving me new tasks to work on, but the problem is that there are so many gaps in my knowledge that I don’t even know what I don’t know. Plus no one has enough free time to give me in-depth info. I’m just feeling really cranky about it right now and wanted to complain, honestly.

    1. Overeducated*

      Can you try to ask for some of those onboarding supports your coworker got? Like “hey, I realize one on one meetings and a crash course in how our organization works would be super helpful in filling in some gaps I’ve struggled with since starting, can I set up those meetings and join the next new employee organization?” Working someplace where onboarding is spotty, it’s fairly common for employees who’ve even been around a year to jump on new employee orientations to catch up.

      In general, I’ve been there (supporting busy and overworked people, too low-level to insist they follow up), am often still there, and it can be really frustrating! As you get more active projects, you will probably have less down time as you can shift work between things while waiting for answers and reviews, and become much more pessimistic about timelines.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        We are having some, uh, hiring problems, so I don’t know when or if there’ll be anyone else I can tag along with for onboarding stuff. New employee already got most of it done, I think. I may try to ask about this kind of stuff–for context, though, I’ve worked here for a while. Normally I do have active projects and I can shift work around, but for some reason this week has just been CURSED.

    2. Hotdog not dog*

      How long have you been working there? Could you ask your manager if you could be included in some of the new person’s on boarding activities? In my office we had several “new” hires during the pandemic who were given a reorientation now that we are back in the office. We also invited anyone else who wanted a refresher to participate. It was very well received. Even for our more experienced people, there were tidbits that they missed on the first go around, or things that had changed that they hadn’t been updated on.
      It’s frustrating to not know what you don’t know! If your manager is even a little bit effective, they will want you to be able to increase your productivity and may be able to help you make a plan to get caught up on the missing information.

    3. ferrina*

      Oh man, I’ve been there. It’s rough!

      A couple thoughts:
      -Make a game out of following up. Mix it up between emails, phone calls and dropping by their desk (if applicable). “Hey, I’m here for my biweekly follow up! Please tell me there’s good news? No news? Ah well, you can’t blame me for dreaming. See you in a few days for my next follow up!” I’ve also been known to send jokes or limericks to frequent offenders (who are good sports about this- I def wouldn’t recommend this for everyone)
      -Only work on the things you like. So if they aren’t getting back to you, take a stab at the things you feel are a good match for you or interesting to you. Sometimes doing a mock up can get them to finally give feedback. If you’re worried about missing things on the mock-up, ask someone else to take a quick look at it for a gut check.
      -Find the person that knows things. Every company has a few. When I was in your spot, it was our SysAdmin. She was constantly busy but always knew everything- if I didn’t know where to start, I’d sometimes drop by her desk and say “Random question- I was just assigned XYZ. I’m not really sure who would be the best person to ask about that- who would you recommend?” and I was always very thoughtful and respectful of her time (offering to help on boring tasks for her if I had time). But give it a couple years, and that person that knows everything will likely be you.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Haha I don’t think gamifying it like that would go over well, unfortunately! This is a busy company that does important work and everyone is overstretched doing that important work and/or dealing with family stuff, sooo…
        I definitely do tend towards only working on things I like or things where I think I have a pretty good chance of my mockup being partially correct. Obviously that… doesn’t always work, such as the mistake I made this week.
        I have been TRYING to find the person who knows everything! I had such a great time at an old job because the one there was my Best Work Friend, but oh man, I have NO idea who it is here and I’m stumped! I’m basically our only admin person because blah blah blah small org weird hyperspecific problems.

    4. Order of the Banana*

      How frequently do you have 1:1s with your manager? I was in the same boat as you re: higher-level people not responding (and it was pretty bad because I was front-facing, so our clients would assume that I was the one dragging my feet on responding to their inquiries, when really I’ve been waiting 6 business days for a director to provide guidance). I’ve been using my manager to escalate things–if I’ve emailed someone twice and it’s been more than a week, I ask her to reach out to that person and usually that ends up netting me a response in about a day.

      Alternatively, if it’s feasible, establish best practices and create SOP guides. At work, we made several flowcharts to follow so that if someone wasn’t responding, we’d still have a 90% chance of figuring out the right course of action. We’ve also been doing knowledge seminars, where we meet with different teams to learn more about what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. And this was all done while we were still down like 30% of our team. It makes your schedule a lot busier in the short-term, but helps in the long run.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Haha are you psychic? Guess what I’ve been writing today–yet another SOP! I love writing SOPs. I definitely had a semi-formalized flowchart at an old job that was super helpful… Part of the problem is that I really don’t know everyone well/know this kind of stuff because we’re remote and everyone’s kinda hands-off/busy with their own stuff. I meet with my managers (I somehow have three–don’t ask) regularly and honestly this last week has been bad enough that I think I am going to bring it up with one of them. Of course my managers are the most regular offenders for all of this. The thing is, none of these tasks are urgent for anyone except for me? And they’re only urgent for me because if I’m not doing them then I’m not doing anything. Most weeks I would have other tasks to work on, this week just worked out terribly so ALL my tasks are ones where I need replies. But for other people they’re very low priority/minor things (because that’s what was easiest to delegate to me).

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          Could you get a meeting with the three of them together? You need someone with authority to set your priorities and reinforce people giving you answers in a timely manner.

    5. Zee*

      My job (and previous jobs) have been like that too. It’s sooo frustrating! But here are a few things I’ve learned:

      1. When following up with someone, send an email. Make it short. Bold actionable tasks. Even if you need their input on multiple projects, don’t put them all in the same email, because a) they won’t read long emails, and b) they might do one of the tasks and think they’re done, ignoring the rest. Make the subject line very clear. Bad: “Hey, just following up again!” Good: “Project X – decision on Y needed by Z.”

      2. Save up the things you don’t need oversight on to work on (any routine tasks) when you have large amounts of downtime. Yes, it may feel weird to not do something when you have a small gap that is enough time to do it, but it’s much better to at least have *something* to work on instead of a having a whole empty week.

      3. Let people feel the consequences of their inaction! If they ask why something isn’t done, you can point to the several emails you’ve sent them. I know it can feel like you’re shirking your responsibility/blaming others for your mistakes – but it was *their* responsibility to get you in the information you needed, and they’re the ones who dropped the ball. Do it enough and they might finally paying more attention.

      Lastly… talk to your manager. Bring a list of all the projects you’re currently working on that are stalled, and list each of the things you’re waiting on for each project and from whom. Make it clear this is a big, ongoing problem. It’s their job to make sure you can do your job.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        I kinda do #1 but the subject line thing is a good point–although a lot of this is happening on our messaging app. One of the people who’s a problem in this regard has stated that email is better, so when emailing that person I can definitely keep this in mind. #2 is a great idea although I haaaaate being bored so I don’t know how well I’ll actually follow it haha! #3 I definitely do, in fact I did get to watch one of my managers faceplant slightly the other day because of this exact thing.
        And yeah, with everyone saying to talk to at least one of my managers, I think I’m going to bring it up in my next meeting with one of them, if I have time. (If no time then I’ll do the NEXT next meeting.)

  15. Watermelon*

    The recent question about gendered washrooms at a resort (if I remember correctly?) got me thinking about the layout of my office. There are gendered washrooms with multiple stalls, and a larger, private washroom designated as the all-gender washroom. According to the sign on the door, it is also meant for anyone with disabilities who may need or prefer to use this washroom.

    I am an able-bodied cis woman. If I occasionally (once in a couple of days maybe) use this washroom instead of the gendered women’s, will I be:
    1. Helping to normalize its use and signalling to management that there is demand for all-gender spaces?
    2. Possibly inconveniencing someone who may not be able to use a gendered/smaller washroom?

    Would your answer change depending on if the washroom for disabled persons was separate from the all-gender one?

    Thanks for reading and sharing your perspective!

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      We have a similar set-up and it is extremely common for able-bodied cisgendered employees to use the private restroom. That said, it seems like we have a lot of restroom capacity and there aren’t issues with people waiting to use restrooms.

    2. Purple Cat*

      Key question – is the “smaller” washroom still multi-stall? If so, then #1 makes sense. If not, then I haven’t seen any need to normalize the use of a single-stall bathroom. People tend to want to use those which makes #2 an issue.

      So if it’s multi-stall, all-gender -> yes, please use it.
      If it’s not, then save it for the people that need it. But if by all means you’re having a bathroom emergency and all the women’s stalls are full, then don’t feel like you CAN’T use it.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      My thoughts are:
      Yes, using that washroom normalizes its use. Signalling demand to management could be more directly done by saying “hey, next time we do a building renovation it would be great to add more gender-neutral washrooms.”
      Yes, using it more increases the chances you will inconvenience someone else who wants to use it (for gender, disability, privacy, etc. reasons). Not saying you can’t or shouldn’t use that washroom for this reason, just pointing out that the more often it’s occupied increases the likelihood someone will want to use it while it’s occupied.

      There’s some similar discussion on the comments from the post “asking an exec to stop using the only gender-neutral bathroom, new manager loves ice-breakers, and more” from March 17, 2022.

    4. Nonbinary lil guy*

      Speaking as an able-bodied nonbinary (so a disabled person will definitely have better perspective on that front) if the facilities that accommodate gnc/nonbinary/disabled folk are limited and you’re fine using the women’s toilets then use the resource that is less scarce. Not a lot of normalizing value in potentially making someone else wait or use a space that isn’t comfortable for them. If you want to be an ally:

      1. Introduce yourself with your pronouns when meeting someone.
      2. Politely but firmly correct others when they misgender someone else.
      3. Put your pronouns in your email signature.
      4. Back up marginalized folks when they bring up issues in the workplace. You don’t need to “signal” to management with your choice of bathroom, just use your voice and say “hey we need to have any/more gender and ability inclusive facilities”
      5. If you mis-speak or make a mistake, apologize quickly and without fuss then simply don’t do it again.

      Ty for asking this question it’s appreciated when cis folks are curious and seek out how to be polite and respectful.

    5. S*

      Both, probably. I use non-gendered washrooms and I don’t mind waiting when someone else is using them. It’s a public bathroom, that’s what happens. But if I were cis and able bodied and consistently noticed people waiting who might not be able/want to use the ‘regular’ ones, I’d probably go back to those. Be sensitive to your surroundings and I think it’s all fine.

    6. Gnome*

      I had to use that sort of restroom when I was pregnant. It definitely got more traffic than the regular women’s restroom and I had to wait a couple times. So now I only use the regular women’s restroom so I don’t make others with more need wait.

      1. Becky*

        This is key! At my work the private restroom gets a lot LESS traffic and is almost never in use when I need it and I have never had anyone waiting when I got out. It does greatly depend on the usage and situation of your company.

    7. Becky*

      My work has a similar setup–multi-stall gendered restrooms and a single private restroom for all gender/disability/family (per floor). I am a cis woman with invisible disabilities and the privacy and space afforded by the single restroom sometimes makes handling my disabilities easier.

      I would say go ahead and normalize its use, but don’t use it for an inconsiderately long time (brushing teeth, doing makeup and hair, changing outfits etc). (You probably don’t have that problem, but some of the letters we’ve had before on AAM indicate there are some people who would miss this nuance.)

      If there were a disabled restroom separate from the all-gender space, I would probably lean towards not using the disabled space but normalize using the all-gender space with caveats mentioned above.

      But in general, just be aware of those around you and their patterns and adjust accordingly. If when you use the private restroom there is sometimes a person or multiple people waiting outside when you are done maybe reconsider.

      1. allathian*

        It really depends on the size of the stalls. Pretty much no multi-stall washroom has stalls that are big enough for me to change clothes in. I’m fat, and I’ve had the experience of having to back into a stall because it was too small for me to turn around in. This hasn’t happened at work, though, all our washrooms are single-stall ones. Normally I’ll use the women’s washrooms, but if they’re all occupied, I’ll use the all-gender/disabled one.

        This isn’t the case at work, but in my area it’s becoming more common for combined all-gender/family/disabled single-stall washrooms. This is great, because the trend is for dads to take a larger amount of parental leave. Even 10 years ago it was hard to find changing tables in men’s washrooms, and there were almost no all-gender bathrooms.

    8. SnappinTerrapin*

      Don’t overthink it. A facility that is available to all is available to all.

      1. Spencer Hastings*

        Yeah, I think people are being kind of rigid here. I’ve definitely had wardrobe malfunctions at times where the ability to go into a single-occupancy bathroom — with a mirror and sink behind a door that locked (as opposed to a multi-stall one where those are in the public section outside the stalls) — was a total godsend. Not setting foot in there unless you’re disabled seems like overkill.

        1. Mad Harry Crewe*

          Nobody is suggesting that (‘don’t set foot unless you’re disabled’) in the thread here. The wildest take is ‘be considerate when taking up limited resources.’

    9. starfox*

      I always use the family/disabled single-seater at work because it’s cleaner. Seriously, the women’s restroom in my office is utterly disgusting.

    10. tamarak & fireweed*

      For me, it depends how much use the washrooms get. If there is a realistic, significant chance (> 20% or thereabouts) that by my using the all-gender accessible washroom I’d be making someone wait who can’t use the gendered inaccessible one, I’d use the latter. If however things are less busy I’d totally use the all-gendered washroom. I do think that normalizing its use is desirable.

  16. Ann O'Nemity*

    Advice for writing an annual performance evaluation for a recently transferred employee?

    Last month an employee from a different department was transferred to my team. Prior to the transfer, I knew very little about Wakeen and our work did not intersect. From his HR file I’ve found that he received performance warnings five months ago and ten months ago for faffing around, cutting corners, and being dishonest about it. Due to restructuring and turnover, I cannot get much information beyond the HR file. Before reporting to me, Wakeen didn’t have a real manager for three months! To his credit, he had admitted that he’s had a terrible year but wants to make a fresh start and get back to his pre-pandemic performance levels. During the month I’ve managed him, I’ve noticed that he spends a lot of time socializing but is getting his work done.

    I’m wondering how much grace to give Wakeen in the annual performance evaluation, which directly affects raises.

    1. Ness*

      I’m surprised you’re tasked with completing his performance appraisal and not his old manager. At my job, his old manager would have been asked to appraise his performance before he transferred.

      Given that he’s been getting his work done since transferring to your department, I would probably just rate him as “meets expectations” or the equivalent and have a discussion about your expectations for the coming year.

      1. ferrina*

        Also surprised that they haven’t looped in his old manager! I’d try to have a 1-1 with his old manager (or old colleagues, if there wasn’t a manager). Tell Wakeen that you’re doing this- “I’m working on your annual eval, and since I obviously haven’t worked with you for most of the year, I’m going to be chatting with a few people that did work with you more closely to understand more about the full year.”
        I think I’d be honest as I could without putting him on PIP path. If he didn’t do a great job, he knows that and knows it may impact his compensation. And it’s not fair to other employees to gloss over that. If there are mitigating factors, definitely note those and account for them in the evaluation (like if he didn’t have a manager).
        I’d also definitely note that what you’ve seen in the last month has been solid, and you see a lot of potential in him and you’re looking forward to helping him grow his skills and responsibilities.

      2. Ann O'Nemity*

        All the turnover has made this harder than it should be. The two people who could have best commented on Wakeen’s performance left the company months ago.

      3. Dancing Otter*

        LW says awaken didn’t have a manager for three months, so nobody’s really any better placed to evaluate him than LW.
        I agree with “meets expectations” in general.
        Since he’s new to this department, the socializing may be getting to know his new colleagues. It’s worth watching, maybe even a light mention when you discuss the review, but not writing into the review at this point.
        Does the review process allow you to schedule an off-cycle review for a few months hence, when he’s had a chance to settle in, and you’ve had more time to observe his performance?

    2. Purple Cat*

      Give him as much grace as you can.
      I’ve “inherited” and “given up” employees mid-year and in both cases have coordinated with the current and former manager to give a unified review of the year. If there was improvement (or in some cases a decline) in recent performance, that was also noted. I would evaluate him based on what you’ve seen, and not feel like you have to count his previous performance if HR doesn’t already have a method for factoring that in.

    3. Lana Kane*

      I’ve had this happen a few times as when I was hiring, I was usually hiring internal candidates moving up a step. I would make it clear in my comments that the person was new and I was assessing on that level. If the person was moving along as expected in their training, I’d give a meets expectations-level review. I would discuss the socializing thing off the record, so to speak, since it’s only been a month. Or, see if it wanes as he gets more trained and therefore busier with assigned tasks.

    4. Green Goose*

      Your company should really have the previous manager write your evaluation. Most places (like mine) do this.

    5. Science KK*

      You said he gets things done, but how’s the quality? If it’s fine or better then in with Ness & Dancing Otter, meets expectations or something to that effect is fine for the official record, and if you have any sort of meeting with him bring up the socializing then.

  17. Email Guy*

    Very minor, but there’s someone at my company whose full name is basically a shorter version of my name. Think John Stevenson vs. John Stevens. People always email me instead of him, I guess I come up first in suggestions for some reason.

    I’ve sent out like 8 “hey, I think you meant the other guy, I have no input on this” emails today for this reason. :)

    1. Katie*

      I am not sure if you are ever not going to have this problem until one of you leave unfortunately. I know someone whose name is the same as someone else (rather high up in the org) and their emails are constantly being sent to the wrong one. This has been going on for 10+ years.

      Maybe you always have a stern message about data security to freak those people out a bit…

    2. Lana Kane*

      Using my handle as an example, at my org my email address is kanel@job.com, and there is a Larry Kane whose email is kanela@job.com. I have been getting his emails for yeeeaaarrrssss. At this point it’s just external emails (internally we use Outlook, and people just type our names), but I eventually set up an email filter to catch his emails separately.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      I worked at a large company where two people had the same name. They worked in different locations, so one appeared as “John Doe” in the email system and the other as “John Doe (Atlanta).” Could IT do something similar to your email? If you work at the same location, maybe they could put your job title so people realize they want to email John Stevens the accountant instead of “John Stevenson (Sales).”

      1. Email Guy*

        Good idea! Nothing I’ve gotten is sensitive info, just confused/rushed people thinking they got the right person since they’ve never chatted with me. I’ll ask our IT specialist.

        1. EvilQueenRegina*

          It may be worth asking if they could put the brackets and job title/location in both of your display names. I remember at my old job where my coworker had a name doppelganger in HR, initially they just displayed the new one as “Smith, Bob (HR)” and left my coworker as “Smith, Bob” which came up first in the directory. People would see our Bob first and send him all the stuff like people’s sick leave. HR Bob eventually asked if our Bob’s job title could be included in his email as well, and IT were happy to accommodate that.

    4. ND and awkward*

      I used to work in a tech department with a (changed names but same concept) James Thomas who would constantly get phonecalls meant for the sales guy Thomas James.

      I don’t think he ever found a solution, but I gather it’s an irritatingly common problem.

    5. Not a College Student Anymore*

      Record a video to the tone of “I aprove this message” sayinng “Hi, I am John Stevenson and I have no input in this” and send it everytime.

    6. Dragonfly7*

      My sympathies. I had the same name as one of the professors when I was a student, and the campus nurses’ office would repeatedly email me, or CC me, on all of the paperwork when a student needed to miss their class.

    7. anonymous73*

      I’m not sure there’s any way to stop this. A few jobs ago I worked with my cousin. Same last name, very similar first names. We were both in IT – he was a manager, I was not. I got emails and phone calls for him all the time. It’s an honest mistake and can be annoying, but I think you just need to roll with it. When I got sales calls from the front desk who accidentally transferred them to me I played dumb. It was fun.

    8. Jay*

      Nothing to do except create a cut-and-paste response. We have a Jennifer Doe and a Jennette Doe in our org. They both use Jen as a nickname and they are in different regions so their emails both start jdoe@ with different regions in the regionorg.com part. I work with Jennette. Eventually Outlook “learned” that when I typed jdoe I meant her, but that took a while.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        I have a stock Outlook signature saved which is the full message — roughly “Please contact this person whose email was misdirected to (my department).”

    9. Striped Sandwiches*

      We had something similar where two women working in the same area and looked a lot alike. They teamed up and did a fun promotional video to explain who’s who.

  18. Katie*

    How do kindly tell someone that they are calling you the wrong name? There is this one person who constantly calls me Kathy. People in general are bad about calling me Kathy when we first work together or don’t work together much. I let it slide, as they figure it out and take the cues that everyone else is calling me Katie and I sign my name Katie. It has been months and this person still is calling me Kathy. It annoys the me now and I get testy answering him when he calls me by the wrong name.

    1. Alexander Graham Yell*

      I think starting with, “Oh, it’s actually Katie!” and quickly moving on to whatever he asked you about will take care of it if he’s at all kind/reasonable! If not, just keep pushing back, and make sure you’re clear that it’s not that you *prefer* being called Katie, it’s that your *name* is Katie – sometimes people get weird about preferences and ignore them. But hopefully you won’t have to!

      1. Massive Dynamic*

        After the first, nice correction, it’d be fine to parrot “Katie” each and every time they call you or reference you as Kathy. Send the annoyance back to the offender until they finally stop.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Just correct them. Nicely, but just correct them. You don’t have to let it slide–it’s your name.

      –person with a weird name who is fed up to the eyeballs with people half-a**ing it.

    3. Purple Cat*

      Just say it. “I’ve noticed you call me Kathy. I let it slide, thinking you’d notice the error, but it is actually Katie. Thanks. Now how about those TPR reports!”

    4. Lana Kane*

      I have a name with the same issue. Once I had a particularly forgetful person and I corrected them with “It’s actually Katie!” maybe 2-3 times. After that it went something like this:

      “Hi Kathy, I was call…”
      “Katie”
      “Huh?”
      “It’s Katie”
      “Oh ok”

      Didn’t solve the issue right away but he got it eventually. I think the abruptness did it.

      (Or, pretend he is talking to the wrong person if you’re up to that sort of thing!)

    5. S*

      I can’t tell from your post, have you actually told them your name is Katie? If not start there.

    6. Buffy will save us*

      I have a two name combo first name (think like JeanMarie but without the capital letter) and have long since given up correcting people sine I get MarieJean, Jean, Marie, JeanLousie, etc. As long as it’s close enough, I just answer. I think that’s also a byproduct of having a difficult to pronounce complicated last name as well. Over 40 years of wrongness just exhausts me to the point of not caring.

    8. Dark Macadamia*

      “It’s actually Katie, not Kathy” and then just quick corrections every time after that. If he gets annoyed or defensive or makes it YOUR fault for not correcting him sooner: “I did, I’m just reminding you” (if that’s true), “I’m telling you now” (perhaps with “I kept thinking you’d self correct” or “most people pick it up quicker” if he’s being REALLY obnoxious about it)

      1. Dark Macadamia*

        However, if you haven’t ever corrected him, or did it like once and then allowed him to call you Kathy for a long time after that … he’s not a mind reader! He doesn’t know he’s wrong and he may not have any reason to think he’s wrong, so of course he keeps calling you what he believes to be your name.

        If he’s pleasant/apologetic about it, it would be nice to put the awkward on yourself, like “I should’ve said something before but I felt silly for letting it go on so long”

    9. Ope!*

      Oh god, please tell them! I messed up two coworkers names this week – one because I’d only ever interacted with them via email which used a non-preferred legal name (Think Josephine vs. Jo) and one because I had to pronounce their last name in front of them for the first time ever and it was a different vowel stress than I thought. While it was mildly embarrassing, I’m glad they both corrected me immediately instead of letting me make a fool of myself moving forward.

      From the flip perspective, I have a name that people think they know the pronunciation of because of a similar named brand (For example, if the car name and my name are both spelled Kia, but name is pronounced “Kay-uh”) and I have to correct people regularly. I usually forget right away and it doesn’t impact our relationship at all moving forward, so it ends up being a very minimal issue, not at all as big as you might fear if you don’t have to regularly do it.

      1. Jay*

        My first name is a common nickname for a common longer name. For my entire working life, I have dealt with people who seem to think they don’t know me well enough to call me by a nickname and so use the other name – which is not my name. I used to let it slide and then it got awkward when they realized they’d been using the wrong name, so now I correct them immediately (usually with some kind of joke or reassurance that everyone does it) and move on.

        More annoying: when I started my current job, IT apparently ignored all the paperwork I’d filled out including the I9 and Social Security forms and entered me into the system with the wrong first name. They then informed me it could not be changed. My job requires state and national licensing and the licensing bodies take it VERY SERIOUSLY if the paperwork submitted to then doesn’t match the license (I had, of course, also provided a copy of my license when I was hired). Still took my boss calling the head of IT to get them to fix it.

        1. Becky*

          My first name is a common nickname for a common longer name. For my entire working life, I have dealt with people who seem to think they don’t know me well enough to call me by a nickname and so use the other name – which is not my name.

          Same for me!! For example people see my signature “Becky” but assume it is a nickname and call me “Rebecca” but no my name actually is “Becky”

          Real name not used, just an example based on my screenname but my real name has MULTIPLE longer names it could be derived from if it were a nickname. So I have been called all of them. Including OTHER near nicknames (Like “Becca” rather than “Becky”).

    10. Unkempt Flatware*

      I have no idea why but it embarrasses me to no end when I’m called the wrong name and embarrasses me even more to correct them. Why? I hate this about me. When I see someone else use the wrong name for/to another and even when I am corrected by others for using the wrong name, I am much more gracious and cool about it. Why can’t I be that way for myself?

      1. allathian*

        Good question. Are you generally embarrassed if you have to correct other people’s misunderstandings, or can you be matter of fact if someone asks you to do a task that’s not a part of your skill set (say you’re a teapot painter but someone asks you to design a new teapot from scratch)?

    11. Zee*

      Also, if you have any coworkers you’re comfortable with mentioning this to – ask them to correct this person as well. Example:
      WrongNamer: Have you seen Kathy today?
      FriendCoworker: *look dramatically confused for a minute* Do you mean Katie?

      More reinforcement always helps in general, but also… some people are real weird about names. Having other people reinforce it too can help it really seem more like “her name is Katie, not Kathy” rather than “oh she prefers Katie, but Kathy’s a nickname for Katherine/Kathleen/(whatever your full name is) too so it’s fine for me to use that.”

    13. k8orado*

      The worst, drives me nuts when people do this. I’m a Kate who’s legally a Kathryn, and it’s wild how many times people have decided it’s cool to just pick a nickname (often Kathy!) despite how I introduce myself, sign my emails, etc. Totally concur with everyone here saying that you just have to correct people, even if it’s been a while of them calling you the wrong thing. I’m very direct but also very friendly, so just kind of smile and cheerfully say “Kate! It’s actually Kate!” and that’s completely fine 99% of the time. If anyone gets weird about it, that’s firmly a them problem.

  19. KofSharp*

    Is there a way to tell someone in my network I never want to work with them again?
    I left a toxic job environment, and some of the upper management that’d been making it toxic ALSO left and started a new company… and they keep calling asking me to come work with them. I don’t want to. While the money they’re offering is huge and over market value, it’s just not worth it.

    1. Email Guy*

      Do they not listen to “Thanks, but I’m good”?

      If they don’t, give em a final “no, seriously, I’m doing well here.” and then stop responding.

      1. KofSharp*

        Fun fact, they have not taken “Im good” for an answer, and they keep having my “old friends” they’ve hired call me to ask if I’m interested.
        They’re also using “More Money” as why I should leave since I cited “You are paying me WAY under market value for what I’m producing” as one of the reasons I left.
        But now I’m in an environment I love, and getting paid market value, and while I DO want more money, it isn’t worth it to go work for those people because “it won’t be like the old days”

        1. Alexander Graham Yell*

          I think you’re in a great position to just say part of that last line – you’re in an environment you love. There’s more to choosing a job than just money, and while the higher salary might be tempting, you’re happy enough in the environment you’re in that you’re not willing to move companies at this time and will let them know if that ever changes.

        2. Ama*

          Honestly at this point the next time they have someone call you, just say, politely but firmly, “I am not interested in ever working over there, I like where I am now, please tell [Old Manager] that no is my final answer and I will start blocking everyone’s calls if you continue to ask.”

          You’ve tolerated this for far too long, I get it because you have prior relationships with these people, but you don’t work for this manager any longer, they need to back off.

        3. ferrina*

          Just “I’m really happy where I am, thanks! But how about that local sports team?”

          This topic is now off-limits. Anyone that pushes it will be told that you’re not interested once. After that, you’ll suddenly realize that you have somewhere else to be and need to end the conversation. They’ll learn pretty quickly (and if they don’t, maybe don’t talk to them as much).

    2. Katie*

      Right after graduating college the store manager of where I was working pestered me a lot about applying for management positions where I would make lots of money. My response that finally shut her down was that I would rather not be miserable.

    3. Perpetual Job Seeker*

      I have this situation with a former employer. They reach out probably monthly even if I don’t respond. It’s fascinating that there is never any conversation about why I left, just won’t you come back??

      I would say stop answering entirely.

    4. anonymous73*

      Assuming you’ve declined and they keep calling, and there’s no concern about needing these people in the future for a reference, or them blackballing you in your industry I’d just be honest. “I’m not interested in working for your company and I’d appreciate if you’d stop contacting me.” If you don’t want to go there, don’t answer the phone and block numbers. But if you’ve been beating around the bush and not giving them a definitive “not interested” you need to say no first.

    5. RagingADHD*

      Next time they call, say “I really don’t see this working out. It was kind of you to think of me, but you can just assume the answer will continue to be no, and move on to other candidates.”

  20. Rayray*

    I have officially reached the point of “I hate my job”. I also survived a recent round of layoffs and my team was cut in half. I’m so over it.

    I’m starting to job hunt again and forgot how much I hate it. I feel like I have a good resume but I get rejected from all the positions I’m actually interested in. I did a phone screen for a job yesterday but it pays less than I make now and I am barely getting by. Wages are. It keeping up with COL in my state.

    Any tips for getting past the ATS? I’m always gettin zapped by big companies it seems. I really think something in my resume is messing up when it goes through those systems.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Are you applying directly through company websites or through job boards like Indeed/LinkedIn/etc.?

      I have a friend who works in hiring and they say the resumes that come through Indeed and LinkedIn always have wonky formatting. It’s clearly the website’s fault, not the applicants, but it could introduce some unconscious bias on the part of HR/the hiring manager to focus on the resumes that came directly through the company website and still have good formatting. Changing this up will probably be a small boost, if any, for your job search but it’s worth a shot.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Can confirm, the Indeed resumes look terrible. I think it works fine if you write up your own resume, save it as a PDF, and attach it with your Indeed application.

        1. ferrina*

          Yes!! Always save your resume as a pdf to avoid layout issues. (and never, NEVER rely on a third-party resume format like Indeed or LinkedIn. Always include your own traditional resume in addition to whatever they have you fill out)

  21. TimeBlind*

    I feel like such an idiot. I’m in the onboarding process for my dream job, with a dream org I’ve wanted to work with for, well, over a decade. I was hired after two interviews and my onboarding process has been going smoothly, until last night.

    I received an email yesterday from the org’s HR saying they couldn’t verify my employment with one of the orgs on my background check, could I send in a W2 to confirm. I wasn’t too surprised since the org that I worked with previously was a side-gig, very intermittent, sometimes volunteer (whether I was paid for my time or not depended on what I was doing for them, think picking up community Free Clinic shifts when regularly scheduled employees wanted time off) and VERY unorganized (when I started, payroll was a lady writing and signing paychecks by hand.)

    When I grabbed the earliest W2 I had from them I looked at the address and realized I had misremembered the whole-ass YEAR I had started with them, and had put the wrong one on my resume and background check. (I remembered having to scramble to get registered to vote in the 2008 Presidential election at that address immediately after moving in, and that I had started at the org about a year after moving in, so I put that I had started in the autumn of 2008 instead of 2009.)

    I sent in my W2s and an explanation and expressed it was an honest mistake and not an attempt to deceive them (obviously there’s no benefit for 1 year difference after all this time for a very, very part time job that I certainly did not do for the money!) I don’t even know how I got “2008” lodged in my brain as the year I started there. But now I’m pretty certain they’ll rescind the offer, I know it looks like I lied. I’m just sick about it, this job was going to be double my current salary and allow me to move back near my family. Ugh.

    1. CTT*

      I don’t think they’ll rescind it! You did actually work there and quickly got them the requested information plus an explanation. Unless there were other red flags they were concerned about, I don’t think misremembering the year you started a part-time job is rescinding-worthy.

    2. Minimal Pear*

      I mean, they certainly could rescind it, but if they’re a good company I would hope they’d understand an honest mistake!

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I mean, they certainly could rescind it, but if they’re a good company I would hope they’d understand an honest mistake!

        And likely an immaterial one as well. That year didn’t reduce your tenure from 15 months to 3 or anything silly like that, does it?

        1. TimeBlind*

          No, I worked with them from 2009-2019 when I went to grad school and then I moved away. But it’s weird – some years I had <$1000 W2's, because I wasn't needed to pick up many shifts, some years I didn't pick up paid shifts at all, even though I was active with the org doing unpaid stuff, so I didn't get a W2. It's a really weird half-way spot between volunteering and paying work for a non-profit. It was truly a labor of love, as the mission of the org was to bring crisis services and healthcare to the most vulnerable people in the community. But part of it WAS work and related to my current field (life science/medical research) so I can't just leave it off my resume/background check stuff.

    3. Alexander Graham Yell*

      Oh no! Fingers crossed that they recognize it’s an honest mistake and don’t rescind the offer. It was so long ago that personally I could understand it happening and I’m hoping they do, too, but I definitely understand the fear.

    4. Procrastinating at work*

      It sounds like you made an honest mistake and any decent company would recognize it as such and not pull your offer

    5. lurkyloo*

      :) I think you might be being too hard on yourself! It’s completely understandable to be off by a year OR MORE! when the role was that part time and….13/14 years ago!? Truly. If they’re that miffed by a one year difference, I’m not sure that’s a good place to work to begin with. Please take a deep breath and let it go. (I’ve even messed up by mistyping by a number. It’s ok!)

      1. Be kind, rewind*

        I agree. It was so long ago! It’s easy to misremember the year. FWIW, last employment background check I had to have done… I got a copy of the report, and one of my short-term contract positions from 2014 was off by nearly a year (i.e., the background check company got it wrong), and it still came back as “match”, plus my company didn’t seem to care, so…. I think you’re fine!

      2. TimeBlind*

        Thank you for the encouragement – I’m trying to not be doom and gloom, but the radio silence this morning is playing havoc with my anxiety. What gets me is that I *have passed* previous background checks with those mistaken dates in them! (It looks like I first made the error in my resume in 2019, and I’ve just never caught it, and I’ve applied for and received jobs with background checks since then!) I’m just worried because there was really no way to say what type of job it was, whether it was part time, per diem, intermittent, etc just start and end dates (but the system did accept NA if you didn’t know the exact DAY of the month, but it yelled at you) and names of who to contact in the company. (Which I had to guess, since the people I worked with back then are all off to other things and they don’t have an HR, really, since it was a charitable community aid org run by anarchists. Not kidding. At first I thought they were having trouble getting a person on the phone because it’s festival season and most everyone will be off running medical aid tents for a few months around the country)

    6. Purple Cat*

      Ooh, deep breaths. I commiserate with thinking a mistake is the end of the world. But you didn’t lie about working there, you only made a mistake about the timing. It would really be a stretch (and a sign that this really isn’t a dream org) if they were to rescind the offer over this. An error in years over a job 13 years ago….

    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I COMPLETELY messed up the dates of my master’s degree on my background check. I was off by months, and because it’s school, you would think I would know the difference between December and May. No one even called me about it.

      You’re good. A mistake is not a lie. “I worked at A” when you didn’t? That’s a lie. Try not to sweat it!

    8. ecnaseener*

      Like you said, there’s no real difference in that 1 year – so why would they think you’d bother to lie about it? The most likely explanation, to them, will be that you goofed.

    9. Warrior Princess Xena*

      When I was getting my I9 set up for my current job I put the wrong social security number in and had to email both HR and the background check people to let them know that they’d have to update it. Mistakes happen and any reasonable company won’t penalize you for them, or assume that you are a liar.

    10. Hen in a Windstorm*

      It’s just a typo. Honestly, *you* made it a bigger deal when you told them “I’m not trying to deceive you”. Why would anyone think that? This is your brain weasels running rampant. Talk back to them and try to relax.

      1. TimeBlind*

        Thank goodness, I sat on the weasels just in time to delete the “trying to deceive you” line before answering the HR person – I basically just said “Oh my goodness, I’m sorry, I’ve copied a mistake from my resume over. It was actually from ’09-’19 in a per diem/intermittent relief role, here’s an 8 year old W2 (the oldest I’ve kept, I usually throw away the 8 year old tax stuff when I do the current year’s taxes) and my last W2 from them, please let me know if you need anything else.”

    11. kiki*

      I feel like you may be more worried than you have to be about this! If you had fewer years of experience and the year in question was much closer to present, somebody could perhaps think you were lying to seem more competitive, but that’s not the case here at all! I used to work as a background check researcher (for employment). I primarily focused on criminal records (which is a whole thing, don’t get me started), but the company did employment verification too. It’s fine! People make mistakes all the time. Being a year off about a job from over ten years ago is not a big deal and I never heard of a candidate being rejected for anything like that.

  22. Riding Off Into the Sunset*

    How does one decide how far in advance to announce upcoming retirement?

    I have worked at the same place for over 25 years, doing largely the same job. I don’t have authority over anybody, but I’m someone the company has come to rely heavily on. My technical skills don’t make me all that hard to replace; it’s the institutional knowledge. I’ve been central to so many projects over the years, that reach into so many departments besides my own, it’s made me the go-to person for lots of answers.

    I’ve had my target retirement date set for a while, but haven’t shared my plans with my employer yet. I didn’t want to bring it up way ahead of time, because I don’t want it to become a filter that my coworkers and management see me through. I want to avoid drama. But I also feel, strongly, that I owe this company substantial notice.

    Some similarly long-tenured people at the company provided a year, or even two years, of heads-up. That seems really long to me, but it appeared to go well in their cases. It’ll soon reach T-minus 12 months for me, so if I want to provide a year’s notice I am running out of runway.

    1. BlueBelle*

      I think it largely depends on how long it will take to replace your position or if there is someone already in line and ready to take over your duties. Usually, executives give 12 months, mid-level leaders 3-6 months, and technical experts 3-6 months. It really depends on how difficult it is to replace someone in the position.
      Congratulations on your retirement!

    2. Hester Mae*

      I’m in a very similar situation. I think one year is too long, with certain exceptions. For example, you have a contract (or union) that means you won’t be let go before you are ready, or in a country (not just a company) where this is common (not the USA). Or if you’d be happy to leave when you let them know.
      I do NOT have a bad experience to report. I gave 4 months notice and it worked out, but it isn’t easy.

    3. Purple Cat*

      I would start dropping hints that your time is coming to an end, but probably wouldn’t officially give more than 6 months notice. A coworker gave YEARS notice, but people didn’t really seem to believe her, leaving us scrambling to cover the gap – when she left on the day she was planning to leave all along :( All that to say, it might not much matter WHEN you give notice if your company doesn’t act accordingly.

    4. After 33 years ...*

      August will mark the end of my 33 years here. For me, it was a combination of:
      – when do activities normally start and end within a typical year’s cycle;
      – how long might it take to start the process of getting my replacement;
      – how long might it take to “break in” colleagues to fill my other roles (committee work, etc.);
      – what timing of institutional knowledge transfer is reasonable, given everything everybody else has to do;
      – what date would work for me (so I could count backward to the notice point);
      – how much notice I contractually had to give administration.
      For me, that turned out to be about 12 months informal notice to colleagues, and 8 months for formal notice to the administration.
      Also for me, given my age and tenure, my colleagues weren’t surprised when I shared my plan.
      Best of luck!

      1. Riding Off Into the Sunset*

        Congrats on such a milestone. I’m a little wistful that I won’t hit 30 years if I stick to my plan, but I’m really looking forward to the next phase.

    5. NeedRain47*

      You should be able to tell HR and/or your boss, and have them not announce it company wide. Of course that will depend on your specific HR/boss/company. People will eventually find out when they hire a replacement/reassign your duties/etc., but it doesn’t have to cause a sudden change to the way people see you. (also, if it does, that’s on them, not you.)

    6. soontoberetired*

      I warned my manager that I am not working past march 2023. I support a system they were going to replace, but they discovered it isn’t easily replaceable and now are keeping it. But because they thought it was going to be replaced, they did not think about the issues of long term support. I am doing my best to “knowledge transfer” but in my job, you have to be willing to take a chance and figure things out on your own. So I gave them a year , and we’ll see what happens. Reality, if someone is vital, they need a backup plan because who knows what will happen.

    7. Lady_Lessa*

      Our technical director, from 4 years ago, gave 2 years notice, but I wasn’t hired (to replace the man who moved up to technical director) until the end of that time. A lot of tribal knowledge was lost, since the man who would have been my boss died less than 2 months after I started.

      We still have not recovered a lot of that knowledge (think old style lama clippers).

      So please, please document, document, and document again.

      (the retiree came in and did some extra training, which was necessary.)

      1. Riding Off Into the Sunset*

        You are 100% correct about documentation. It will be challenging in my case because the technology evolves so much faster than business processes. But, yes. And I will.

        Thanks.

    9. Haha Lala*

      If you have a manager or HR that you trust not to freak out about it, you could ask them what sort of notice they’d like to see. You say you’ve been there over 25 years, so if you’re at/near normal retirement age, it shouldn’t catch them off guard. “I’m making my future plans, and retirement is in my not-to distant future. How far in advance do I need to clear my retirement date with you?”
      (or if you have a well documented company handbook, you can see if there’s any requirements in there too).

      And keep in mind, clearing the date with HR or a manager doesn’t (necessarily) mean everyone in the office needs to know at that same time. You could get your retirement date ‘on record’ with HR a year in advance and then announce it to the full company only a month or 2 before, when it’s time to actually start wrapping up projects or transitioning them to someone else.

    10. Aggresuko*

      That one depends entirely on situation/job. Will anything go poorly for you if you announce early? I can’t tell from your post if that’s an issue or not, so I’d say to protect you first. Or if you want to spend time on your own documenting things before announcing, you could do that.

      I’ve had coworkers give notice months to a year in hopes that their replacement would be hired before they left and that never worked. I did have one guy come into work on Monday and the next day his supervisor announced it was his last day and he’d retired. That was pretty weird all around.

      1. Riding Off Into the Sunset*

        At my workplace there has actually been a good pattern of bringing replacements in while the outgoing person is still around to train them. That being said, it’s unclear (to me) whether they’d hire a direct replacement for me. The department’s headcount might be optimized through attrition.

        Relevant side note: there’s another member of the team retiring pretty close to the same time, who’s already gone public.

        I don’t think there’d be any negative consequences apart from awkwardness.

        Thanks.

        1. Hillary*

          At most of the places I’ve worked folks give a year or more notice when they’re in complex roles. Knowledge transfer and planning takes time, and leaders always appreciate it. If you’ve seen colleagues successfully give a year plus notice, you can trust your leaders to handle it reasonably well.

          I don’t know if your employer does this, but at my company the first question to many people is asking if they want to go part time instead.

    11. Jay*

      I just did this and I gave six months notice. Not formally – I didn’t submit my resignation until 90 days which is standard in my field. I told my boss and grandboss six months ahead in hopes they would be able to start the hiring process for my replacement. It typically takes at least 90 days from offer to start date in our field due to credentialing issues and I really didn’t want to leave my team in the lurch. It worked out just as I’d hoped; my replacement started about two weeks before I left. She wasn’t fully up to speed by my last day but at least she was there and I had a chance to meet with her a few times.

      There was some awkwardness because they didn’t want me to make an official announcement to our whole region until 90 days and I felt obligated to tell my team, so word of course sort of leaked out. I know it should be flattering that people were upset to see me go, but it was also exhausting to feel like I was comforting people for six months.

      1. Riding Off Into the Sunset*

        Thank you for the detailed sharing. My tolerance for awkwardness is low, so your story strikes a chord.

        I had been thinking I’d do 12 months informal notice, and dreading it, but based on this thread I’m leaning toward reducing that to 6. I can probably survive 6 awkward months.

    12. Snow Globe*

      Minimum at my long term company was 90 days. They need that time to process all the related paperwork (retiree health insurance, 401(k), etc.) There is way more paperwork than you think. But I wouldn’t provide longer notice unless you feel confident that they won’t push you out before you are ready. (Although a layoff could result in a nice severance package, so maybe you’d just retire earlier.)

    14. OtterB*

      I’m thinking about this too. I tentatively have two years from now as my retirement date, but haven’t mentioned it to anyone yet. I’ve been here going on 18 years. My main project has a strong annual cycle to it, so we will want to hire my replacement with that timing in mind, and summer will be the best time to leave. Possibly someone internal will be interested but it’s more likely it will be an outside hire. We have a new big boss starting soon who wants to sit down with each of their reports to do goal-setting for next year, and I think that’s probably the time for me to bring it up. I wouldn’t want to make a big announcement that soon, though. I have one big makeover for my project that I’d like to do before I leave, and a WHOLE lot of cleaning up, organizing, and documenting. I am pretty much a one-man-show; there are people who could back me up if absolutely necessary but nobody down in the weeds on my stuff.

    15. Purple Penguin*

      There’s a difference between providing a year’s notice and providing some hints a year in advance. At your next manager conversation (review, goal-setting, checkin, appraisal, whatever you do) ask a hypothetical like “Is my position a role that you’d want a direct replacement if I retire or would you fill the role differently?” and they may panic and ask if you’re thinking of retirement, but you just shrug and say “it’ll happen sooner or later, yes, I’m not planning on working into my 90’s” The point would be to get a sense of whether they’ve already considered this in their long-term planning and if so how they envision the timeline – are you training a replacement, working with junior employees to had off specific tasks, writing up large manuals, or what, or maybe just that you’ll leave and they’ll recover eventually. If they don’t have anything in mind they don’t need much lead-time to implement it.

      1. Riding Off Into the Sunset*

        I like the feel of this. I can picture how my boss might respond, and it is a conversation that ought to happen. I mentioned above that another team member has already announced retirement plans in the same general time frame. We’re a fairly small team, so the impact of another departure could be significant.

    16. Girasol*

      I was a technical project lead when I retired. I read that it should be 6 – 24 months if you’re senior leadership but no less than 3 months for an individual contributor “unless you intend to insult your boss.” I did not, so I announced three months in advance. That was terrible advice! The company waited until two weeks before I left to hire my replacement but they started right away to leave me off meetings involving projects that I was still working on. I was the butt of so many rocking chair jokes. People my own age who had always treated me as a respected peer suddenly acted like I’d announced that I was headed for the memory care home. So my advice is to go as short as possible, weeks not months depending on how much catch-up work you need to do on documentation. Institutional knowledge is very important but people tend to learn it better by experience than by explanations anyway.

    17. Riding Off Into the Sunset*

      Again, thanks everyone.

      There’s an emotional level to my fretting over how to handle this. The company has maintained a very low turnover rate during my time there, so there are many longstanding friendships. It feels like family. Sometimes family aggravates us, and that’s true here too.

      But they’re awesome. They threw me a surprise “this is your life” kind of thing for my 25th employment anniversary. When I turned 50, they used about two miles of black streamers to decorate my desk (which I loved). Come to think of it, they made a big deal about my 40th birthday too.

      So, rationally I just need to pick a horizon. It’s the irrational part that’s making that hard to deal with. I don’t know how people will react. How other people will react is always mysterious to me, about everything. Case in point — the response to my question on this forum! I didn’t think anybody was going to care.

      I think I have a plan now, although I do need to sleep on it. I appreciate all the advice and information. Take care.

  23. Forkeater*

    Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to balance having to travel for work, when you have kids and pets and your spouse also travels for work? I’m interviewing for a consulting position that I’m very interested in, and they seem very interest in me. I’ve been wanting to do consulting for awhile because I enjoy variety and get bored with all my jobs after a few years. This position is mostly at home but could be 8-10 overnight trips a year. Which seems doable, but my spouse also is a consultant and travels much more than that (well, they used to before covid, and may need to again soon).

    In the past I’ve pulled myself out of the running for consulting jobs feeling like I just couldn’t plan on being able to travel when I might need to. But this seems like such a small amount it may be possible. My kids are older but still can’t be left alone overnight and we don’t have family close by, so we would need to be able to have enough control over our schedules to not have overlap.

    As a complicating factor, spouse is in the final rounds of interviews to move to a different firm so who knows how flexible they will be. He currently has a fair amount of control over his trips but that could change. Could this ever work out? Has anyone out there succeeded in making this kind of arrangement work?

    1. Overeducated*

      I only know of people making it work out with family help, or well-paid professional help (i.e. overnight nannies). I think if you try to make sure your trips never overlapped, you’ll find more conflicts than you expect, pretty quickly. So if there’s no family nearby, the consideration for me would be whether it paid well enough for me to afford a backup caregiver.

      1. Rara+Avis*

        I concur — my cousin and her husband make it work with an au pair and an occasional emergency to call to us, as the closest relatives, or flying grandma cross country.

      2. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

        Truly, the only way I can see this situation working is if you have dependable family members (grandparents, sister, brother, etc.) willing to come and babysit. Otherwise, you’d need a nanny, au pair, or live-in housekeeper type of help.

        It’s not impossible. But you’d have to consider if it’s worth being away so much.

    2. kbeers0su*

      I’m in this position currently. My husband and I work in the same field, but for different organizations and both have to travel for work. Our travel includes day trips to other sites within our region (so up to 2 hours of driving one way), and overnight trips (sometimes one night, sometimes multiples). Our closest family is 1.5 hours away. Our kids are 4 and 9.

      So far we have not run into any issues. We were both up front with our supervisors about the fact that we both have to travel. I started my job after him, so when I got the offer, that was one thing we discussed (as well as general flexibility to WFH some days, policies on comp time for travel, etc.). My husband and I always talk to each other before booking any travel, including details (i.e. will the other person have to get the kids to school, from school, make dinner, take them to swim/soccer/camp, etc.) so that we’re both fully in the know about what that will look like for both of us. The one time it will likely be an issue is this summer when we both need to go to the same event, which will require overnight travel for both of us. But we’re being proactive in trying to find a solution.

      TLDR: We’ve made it work for two years, so hopefully you can, too. But I’d be up front in any offer/negotation conversations about it so supervisors can tell you if they have concerns/you can feel out any red flags.

      1. Gary Patterson's Cat*

        I guess if most of the trips are somewhat flexible to schedule, this can be done so that both parents aren’t away at the same time. It would be something to ask about.

    3. CG*

      For both you AND your husband (really! It’s not just default *your* job to solve this problem by sidelining your career – your kids have two whole parents!): “my spouse is already traveling at this time and I need to stay with my kids” is a completely valid reason to miss or reschedule a work trip on occasion. IMO, if you’re excited about the job, you can always talk with your manager after you accept (or start!) about their preferred approach when it looks like a potential work trip might conflict with a time when you are the sole parent available to watch your kid – but I don’t think you should take yourself out of the running for a job you’re excited about because of a rare possibility!

      (Related: have you talked with your husband about this, and about how you might alternate responsibilities/taking a work hit if you do ever have conflicting work obligations, so that your job isn’t the only one impacted if there is overlap in your travel schedules?)

      1. CG*

        I repeatedly used “husband”, but I just realized you used “spouse”, and I recognize your spouse may not be a husband – apologies!!

    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      You can get a overnight nanny for short stuff like this. Plenty of doctors, pilots, and other careers need overnight care. It can be pricey though. You need a place for them to sleep, food etc. Usually pay one rate for hours kids awake and separate rate for hours kids asleep, some people do just do flat rate per day.

      Also sometimes can just stack sleepovers for the kids. If you’ve good friends with a family local to you (want same school for easier drop off) you can ask the parents about it (and offer to trade childcare another time too).

  24. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    I was going email Alison this, but whatever.
    My office is desperate to get everyone back to the office. I get it, rent is expensive, but employees’ opinions on home office changed in the last two years.
    So far, they tried
    * giving out branded goodies
    * reinstating snacks
    * an LinkedIn campaign with (more) branded goodies as prize
    * after hour meetings with alcohol
    People still don’t come back, and those who do are very few. Yesterday we got the results of a survey my department was never asked to fill, and had statements like “out of 500 people who answered, 86% wants hybrid work, 92% remote and 93% onsite”. Notice the numbers don’t match. I go at most twice a month, and only for very specific reasons, like a Department meeting.
    I guess they won’t stop until they force us to go back or they understand enforcing this would cause the entire IT Department to leave.

    1. K C*

      I feel you. There’s a lot of that going around. I don’t know what’s going to happen but I don’t think the companies “winning” is as easy as some people think it is.

    2. Elle*

      When are employers going to learn that free snacks, meals and giveaways are not the answer to problems such as retuning to the office or unhappy employees? Now more then ever it’s coming off as so tone deaf.

      1. Aggresuko*

        I can get snacks and meals at my house without having to leave my house. Think about that one.

      2. TangerineRose*

        Seems like it would be cheaper for them to have a much smaller office so that most people can work from home.

    3. Massive Dynamic*

      That is some interesting math right there. I hear you – we are solidly hybrid now with a formal “request one or two days at most from home” policy. Last Friday there were only four of us in the office, which was remodeled last year to be HUGE, and one of the higher-ups was griping to us about how empty it seemed. Then this week we had waves of both bad colds and the actual flu hit the office (and covid tangentally, but no interoffice exposure that we know of yet). And it was once again proven how GREAT IT IS when people are in recovery but still want to work a part or full day, they can do so safely from home. That higher-up got the flu and wasn’t able to come in at all last week.

      I feel fine but am WFH today because germs.

    4. AnonToday*

      That’s happening at my company too. The snacks have always been a staple, but the latest has been a cornhole tournament that has dragged on for months (presumably because nobody wants to come in for their matches). Work-hour events with alcohol seem to bring in the most people, but it’s still a small portion.

      I feel like single offices (we have an open plan), child/pet/elder care stipends, or honestly a factual, mathematical explanation of why on-site work is beneficial would go further towards getting people in.

      How does that math work on your survey though? Did they explain that?

    5. Miel*

      They’re trying to avoid conflict and make everyone happy, which is clearly not possible.

      Sounds like they need to make the expectations around being in the office clear – and the reasoning behind that – and then accept that people who don’t like it will leave.

      (Hopefully, the higher-ups will think long and hard about what the in-office expectations are.

      1. Aggresuko*

        Yeah, pretty much. Nobody WANTS to, but they can certainly insist/demand that everyone come back and then lose some people over it if they like.

    6. Warrior Princess Xena*

      The office needs to either require people to come in as a condition of employment or stop trying to push. And if they want people to come in and continue working for the office, they need to provide some reasonable data beyond ‘we want to use our fancy office’.

    7. Alex*

      Lol my office seems to be doing the same thing. They *said* we are all free to work fully remotely if we want….but then they try to get us to come into the office by offering free food, or trying to have us engage in really dumb “community building” activities and seem disappointed that hardly anyone actually truly wants to do anything but sit on their couch, do their work quietly, and have their own non-work lives be a bigger part of their lives again.

      If you want us to come into the office, require it so that we can all look for other jobs. But of course, that is what they are afraid of.

    8. Random Biter*

      I’ve often wondered what a business could offer that would actually entice people to return to the office. My office has never been anything except in-person due to the nature of the work, but I can’t think of too many things that would make me want to return to the office if I didn’t need to. Free on-site child care? No hoops to jump through for time off? More money? I just can’t think of anything sufficiently rewarding to make not working from home desirable.

      1. Dinwar*

        I think there are plenty of justifications. For one thing, not everyone has room, internet connection, or the right equipment. Some equipment–plotter printers, for example–can be quite expensive, yet absolutely necessary for the job.

        There’s also the fact that different people want different things. There’s a strong current of “I don’t want to talk to people” in the comments of this blog, and WFH is fine for that. But some of us are more social creatures, and enjoy the random chit-chat with coworkers that you simply can’t do online. You can’t randomly bump into someone, ask how their day was, talk on the way to a coffee pot, and in the course of the conversation save a project thousands of dollars, something I’ve seen happen a number of times in the office. Nothing short of termination of employment will convince many commenters here to return to the office, but I think it’s fair for a company to want to accommodate both types.

        Something I’ve found particularly amusing is that as the pandemic has waned, people are starting to get fed up with their home offices. I’ve read about more and more people renting space away from home, in order to increase focus. Such people are, in fact, re-inventing the wheel–we already have a perfectly good solution to this, called the office!

    9. Dinwar*

      I’m an oddball for the commentariat here: I like going into the office. I like having a physical and temporal separation between work and home. I still would find this annoying.

      First, they’re clearly dishonest about the survey. I don’t know what your company does, but mine is scientists and engineers–lying about data is a cardinal sin.

      Second, the methods they use are bad. There are reasons to want to return to the office–easier to collaborate, easier to separate work from home, better equipment/set-up (early in the pandemic a LOT of people on this site were complaining about not having space), etc. Free food isn’t one of them. And they need to address the negatives. Open office plans, and even cubicles, should be things of the past now–with fewer butts in seats they should be able to give people better work spaces! Commutes can be a pain, and companies need to accommodate that (pay for parking, for example).

      I think ultimately we’re going to see firms built around three different methods of work: WFH, hybrid, and butts-in-seats, with hybrid being the most common. It’s going to become a cultural thing, just like dress code is, and companies will attract those who fit the culture.

  25. Lioness*

    Absolutely a vent, but I just got a hard rejection from a dream job that advertised as fully remote, said nothing about being in office or even the geographical area at any point during the three-plus hours of interviews I did, one of which was with the CEO. The rejection email, after the opening platitudes and telling me I’d otherwise be a great fit, contained the phrase “We have always had a local preference in hiring this position, and we want to honor that.”

    I want to scream. Why did they even let me try?

    IDK what I’m looking for here, tea and sympathy I guess. I’m already back on the horse with my fourth interview this week later this morning, I’m just going to be salty about this one for a while.

    3. Saraquill*

      My guess is they weren’t thinking beyond “We’ll put things that sound appealing in this job description,” and didn’t think further than that.

      Four interviews in a week? Congratulations, and make sure to use your downtime to rest. I’ve been finding one or two interviews a week for several weeks exhausting.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      Grrr! *passes over a cuppa*
      They should have put that in the job ad, if they didn’t.

    7. Ama*

      Ugh that sounds like the job I applied to that included in the job description “we know candidates often self-select out if they don’t 100% match the description, we encourage you to apply even if you only have some of this experience.” When I got the form rejection letter (I did not make it to interviews), it said “we’re only interviewing candidates who were a close match for the job description.”

    8. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      Oh, that is horrible! What a waste of everybody’s time. Did you ask about it in the phone screen too?
      It seems so many companies are outright lying about WFH and Remote now, just to get candidates in the door.

      The have no intention of honoring it.

  26. ItsNotOver*

    I work in an open-concept work area. Recently, I complained about being seated near a new colleague who wasn’t wearing a mask often at work, due to my living with vulnerable people. We didn’t have a clear policy for staff masks at the time (it’s public service, and our customers aren’t required to wear masks, but not much was said about staff). Admin responded by rearranging the workroom so that nobody was sitting within six feet of anyone anymore, added some air purifiers, and then announced the mask requirement for staff was officially lifted.

    The problem is, there is one service point where I have no choice but to sit near a coworker, John, who I know to be unvaccinated. They added an air purifier but did not make any other accommodations, and then they made John full-time, with his desk being permanently located at the service point. John stopped wearing masks despite knowing about my family situation.

    Yesterday, John found out someone he lived with tested positive for Covid. He did not put on a mask, did not notify a supervisor, did not tell me (I overheard him telling a colleague), and proceeded to sit close to customers for an extended period of time until I went to a supervisor and complained. He was sent home, but now I have no faith that the next time this happens, he won’t just refuse to tell anyone at work that he’s been exposed. For one thing, he had already been asked to stay home in the same situation in the past, so it’s not like he didn’t know that was what was expected.

    So where I was uncomfortable sitting near him while he was unmasked before, I’m extremely uncomfortable now. I don’t have any trust left, so I want John masked when I have to sit near him. Any tips on addressing this with the higher ups? (Unfortunately, changing jobs isn’t an option.) I’m afraid they’ll try to pull me away from that service point, which I really do not want.

    1. Esmae*

      Are those higher-ups aware that John came into work and interacted with customers unmasked when he knew he’d had a COVID exposure? Since your first complaint didn’t lead to people having to mask around you, maybe emphasizing the possibility of John spreading COVID to customers will be more effective.

    2. Miel*

      Ugh. Unfortunately, it seems that Management believes that COVID is over (this is true at my company too). I don’t see an easy solution here, besides continuing to wear an N95, and considering switching your work responsibilities (which I know you don’t want.)

      Best of luck. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

    3. Alice*

      I’m sorry, though situation. What a jerk.
      If it helps, CDC guidance still says that known close contacts who are not fully vaxxed should quarantine for 5 days and wear a mask for five more days post exposure. He’s just blowing that off. Maybe if you approach management with that specific info, they will take stronger action? I will paste the specific link in a reply. Good luck.

    4. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

      I don’t just have vulnerable people living at my house: I am a vulnerable person myself. I’m not an epidemiologist, biologist, or other Covid expert, but I do work with some, and I follow the science closely for my own self-preservation.
      High-filtration efficiency masks on everyone capable of wearing them the entire time they’re in shared airspace PLUS air purifiers and space (room for the air purifiers to work), and universal vaccination, would be gold standard risk mitigation. But just filtration and spacing (and organization of services such that work can be accomplished without close proximity) are not insignificant, especially in conjunction with encouraging vaccines and masks for those who want or need them.

      If you yourself consistently wear a correctly fitted high-filtration respirator mask whenever sharing airspace with people of unknown (or known risky) health status, and follow general hygiene practices, you are at very low risk of catching anything even from an unmasked person who is actively contagious and ill, not just exposed. John is a source of risk, but he’s only one you are currently focused on; if you’re interacting with unmasked customers or other coworkers, any number of them could be as much a risk as John –or more since you don’t have the protective default distrust of them that John has earned.

      Emphasising the possibility if spreading illness among customers might encourage management to be more consistent about their risk mitigation policies and measures in general, even if it doesn’t result in John being made to mask. Being diligent about your own protective behaviors (especially wearing a high-filtration respirator consistently and correctly) will protect you and your vulnerable family even if John isn’t made to mask, or John IS but you have to work with a customer who’s actively ill.

  27. A Non Ymous*

    My job is not that hard to do, pays the bills, and leaves me time and energy to do other things in life.
    I do very good work and would be more than capable of taking on a higher-level role if I chose.
    I do not so choose.

    Crises keep coming up, though, and I solve the problems so we can get the project done. That seems to be leading to a certain amount of “responsibility creep,” where management expects me to do more than others in the same role simply because I am capable. It’s also meant that management hasn’t solved issues that are really theirs to solve because my short-term solution just sticks.

    Have you any scripts or techniques for resisting this sort of boundary pushing?

    1. Dust Bunny*

      “I’m sorry–I have too many other things going on right now. Ask Wakeen if he can handle it.”

      1. A Non Ymous*

        That would be helpful except that this happens on the projects I’m assigned to.

    2. ferrina*

      Ugh. No, I don’t know of a script. Unfortunately this is something that your manager needs to protect you against or you will keep running into because you’re a good worker who likes to get their job done. You can draw some clear lines in the sand, but those may affect your projects- “Sorry, Linda handles those sorts of things, we’ll need to wait for her to step in.” (followed by project paused for two weeks).
      Ideally you could go to your manager and say “hey, I realize that I’ve been doing a lot of X recently. That’s really not what I want to focus on, and I’d like some help taking it off my plate. Can we talk about how to make that happen?”
      But if your manager isn’t doing this, your options are really, really limited.

    3. Filosofickle*

      Commenting so I can follow. I’m being pushed into more leadership…and that’s not what I want! I chose a contributor role on purpose! But the projects are struggling and somehow it’s falling on me to fix. Officially, they say it’s okay for me to opt out but I know it will keep creeping back and I believe it will hurt my reputation.

    4. Anonymous Koala*

      I’m sorry this is happening to you. I don’t know if a good way to stop the responsibility creep, but I think you have really good grounds for a raise (even if you don’t want your title to change). If the responsibility creep is inevitable, you could consider trying to adjust your compensation to reflect that.

    5. anonymous73*

      Not a specific script, but have you talked with your manager about the underlying issue outside of when it’s happening? If not, I would schedule a meeting with them to discuss it. If they don’t have your back to push back (or if they’re the one who is doing this) I’m not sure there is a resolution outside of finding a new job. If you’re taking care of issues that are normally done by management, at the very least they owe you more money because you’re doing higher level work and not getting paid for it.

    6. A Non Ymous*

      Thanks, folks! You’ve given me some insight into how to frame this for my supervisor.

    7. Cocafonix*

      Be careful you’re not the one setting or fostering these expectations. Not that you should be less “capable” but you should set expectations like “Oh, you’ll need to work with Jane on that. That is her area.” (Oh, but you’ve done this before…) “Yes, and she’ll let me know if she needs my help, but I’m sure she’ll be fine” Or being too quick to answer seemingly urgent requests. “Oh sure, but I won’t be able to look at it until tomorrow. The procedure is documented. Why not follow that first and reach back if you’re still stuck.” Or… “Yes, that’s a big issue. Jane is managing it and she’s aware I’m pulling reports for investigation, but she’ll have the big picture and is the one to work on the plan to resolve it.”

    8. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      I had this happen this week and brought it up with my manager.
      “You know, on that call with Wakeen the other day, I was somewhat taken aback that I was asked to do X, Y, and Z because my understanding was that Wakeen and the company we were hiring were going to take care of that aspect of the project and this is the kind of work we’re paying this company to do for us.”

      She fully agreed! And she said that Wakeen has a habit of trying to over-delegate, when in fact Wakeen is the one responsible for directing the company we’re working with and the project.

      This kind of thing happens a LOT to me at my company. I’m often told I’m going to get “help,” but then that help ends up with me doing a whole lot MORE to explain and spoon-feed to 1-2 people than if I had just done the work myself. SIGH! So few people are proactive nowadays. I have quite literally had people take all I gave them to bring them up to speed, and then just add a paragraph and say they did it all. I’ve become very wary.

  28. Teacher123*

    Hello! My boss (Head of School) has set up a sort of handover meeting with him, me and the new teacher who will be ‘replacing’ me while I’m on maternity leave for the next school year.
    I’m happy for my boss to make the introductions but don’t particularly want him to stick around for the rest of the conversation, because I will just be walking my replacement through the course, the school’s policies and expectations, as well as a Drive folder that I’ve created with everything needed for the year. I can’t think of any reason why my boss should stay, and he almost certainly wouldn’t be there for other conversations between outgoing and incoming teachers.
    How do I politely tell my boss that he is free to – and should – leave? If it helps, I am meeting with my boss a couple of hours beforehand and could perhaps mention it then.
    Thanks :)

    1. CakeDonut*

      Hi! Former teacher here. Could you shift the location (start in HoS office and then “let me show you the space and walk you through what I’ve set up online…”)? You could also ask HoS earlier (“I imagine most of this meeting will be me walking X through the Drive–are there additional topics you’d like to be present for?”).
      FWIW, it might be nice for someone to overhear your boundaries (whether they are please don’t email/I’ll check once a week/for emergencies, reach out to Y) and the expectations for what happens/how flexible you expect curricula to go while you’re gone.
      From my perspective, it might be nice for a higher-up to hear about how well you’ve prepared, the content you teach, etc–just to leave a good impression before going out for a bit.

      1. After 33 years ...*

        Yes to all that. Boss might be quite happy to learn that you have a well-thought-out plan, and therefore they can leave matters in your capable hands! (Written as one formerly in the boss position on several occasions).

  29. a good mouse*

    Timesheets stress me out, especially on projects that have few hours but a lot to do, and I just started a job where hours are tracked really closely. Are there any suggestions to a) ease the anxiety around this, and b) make it an easier part of my routine? Since I never want to think about it, I wait until last minute and enter everything which makes it harder, then I want to take a break for a few days because I just spent so much time filling in timesheets, and it piles up again. Honestly it’s like doing the dishes for me (another chore I hate to do).

    1. Presea*

      Maybe make it a habit to do your tracking at the very end of the workday, or do yesterday’s tracking at the very beginning of the day if you’re an “eat the frog” type of person. It might also be worthwhile to try digging deeper into why timesheets are so stressful for you that you procrastinate to this extreme – are you nervous about being monitored (and are these nerves grounded in reality or not), is there something from your past or personal life that makes time a sensitive subject for you mentally, are you scared your use of time will be judged… I can’t answer those, but maybe you can!

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Just curious: Any idea why this is so anxiety-inducing?

      I’ve always had timesheets in varying forms so it’s always just been something you do. Are yours particularly complicated?

    3. Minimal Pear*

      Honestly I update mine every time I switch between tasks. Just got out of a one-hour meeting? Log that. Spent literally fifteen minutes on updating one thing? Log the fifteen minutes. It makes it feel like a fun game for me almost, I get to count down my time adding up until it’s all my time for the day and I’m free.

      1. Be kind, rewind*

        I do that, too. I took an excel template and organized it/tricked it out with formulas to my needs. This is what I use throughout the day every day, and then I enter that into our official system (which logs you out after inactivity, so you couldn’t reasonably directly enter things throughout the day).

      2. Massive Dynamic*

        I do this too – log a task as soon as it’s done. In the same excel spreadsheet I keep a to-do list which helps me focus and jump to the next thing. I log all my time on our own time tracking app at the very end of the day.

    4. Saraquill*

      It was my job for a short while to collect timesheets and type in the information. If there were blank spots, I’d remind the person to fill it in. Is there anyone like that around who could help you?

    5. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Would it be easier to track your time on an app, then at the end of (whatever time period) export the information in one fell swoop? ATracker is an app I’ve used before. Once you set up your categories, you just hit a button to flip from one to another, and at the end of the day (or whatever) you can export a document with the overall breakdown.

    6. Generic Name*

      How often are you filling out timesheets? I don’t love time sheets, but as a consultant, I’ve made my peace with them. I keep track of how long I spend on stuff on a small notepad as I’m working, and we are required to fill out time sheets daily. It takes less than 15 mins at the end of the day to fill it out. When you let it pile up, it’s easy to forget how long you took doing something.

    7. ferrina*

      You could try calendar blocking. That’s where you mark certain parts of your day for certain tasks. If you like to plan your day in advance, you can put this on your calendar (marking it as “free” if you’re interuptable) or keep it on a notepad beside you. That way when you go back to fill out your time sheet, you already have a list of what you were doing (way, way easier to fillout a timesheet when you already have a list and don’t have to try and remember).

    8. pancakes*

      Do it every single day and don’t let it pile up. It’s so much more annoying a task to do all at once! Would it help to write down your hours by hand first? That makes sure you won’t lose track of your hours even if there’s some sort of tech problem with the site or app you log your time in, and it might feel easier to break up the task of time entry that way. When you enter your time in the system after that, all you’re doing is transferring your notes into it and making sure there are no typos.

    9. anonymous73*

      I’m old school so I would keep track of it throughout the day on paper and then enter everything into the system at the end of the day. If you put it off, it will create more anxiety. But why do timesheets make you anxious in the first place? Figuring that out may point you to the right solution.

    10. Purple Penguin*

      I saw a really cute timesheet hack where you assign each project a color of lego brick and assemble your time log out of legos over the course of the week, then just add it up at the end. Concept being that it’s kind of fun to add a brick so you won’t mind doing it. I don’t think I can post a link but just searching ‘time tracker lego’ should be enough.

    11. SP*

      I created a form for myself that I fill out as I go through my day. It’s got spots for notes and required follow ups so it’s multipurpose! I’ve been enjoying it, but may also check out the tracker mentioned below.

    12. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I wish I had gotten online on Friday, because this is related to a problem I’m having… how do you record multitasking?
      I am doing an excessive amount of task switching because of management issues beyond my control.
      I had decided to move on more than once, but each time, there were corporate changes that made a difference.
      Time tracking will be a positive change because it will demonstrate that we are understand with unreasonably tight deadlines.
      I just need that balance point where I know I am accurate and I am not spending too much time.

  30. Burned Out but Cautious*

    I have worked for a healthcare staffing/temp agency for a bit more than a year now, in non-clinical but patient-facing rolls. I like working for the agency because the assignments have a variety of flexible, atypical schedules, which works well for me because I’m also a fine arts freelancer. Since I have joined the agency, I’ve never gone more than around a week between jumping from one assignment to another or picking up per diem shifts.

    My current assignment is ending next week because the location I was working at is closing to fold with another. I’ve already asked the staffing specialist I work with and there’s no open assignments in my current department, but I will remain eligible to fill in when other employees at different locations call out and have already agreed to cover someone’s vacation. I could ask to go through training to move to another department with openings.

    The thing is…I’m considering stepping back from the temp agency for a month or two (which I could easily afford), and only casually picking up some open shifts and only putting myself up for consideration for an open assignment if a really good fit comes along, instead of aggressively seeking a new assignment like I have in the past. The reason I want to do this is that being a healthcare worker during a pandemic has totally burned me out and I’d like a break, and I have a lot of deadlines for my art freelance coming up later this year and this seems like a great opportunity to get ahead of them.

    My questions are:
    1. Do I need to communicate this to my staffing specialist/the temp agency? I don’t want to take a full leave of absence because I’d still like the opportunity to pick up shifts casually or to jump on the right open assignment.
    2. If I need to communicate this to my staffing specialist/she asks after me, what’s a good script to explain what I’m doing? “I’m burned out and want to focus on my art” feels…less-than professional.
    3. I’ve worked really hard to try to cultivate a reputation that I’m reliable and responsible, because I want to stay at this agency long-term. Is this likely to hurt my reputation?

    1. ferrina*

      1. I wouldn’t. I’d wait until it comes up (if it comes up), and only if it becomes an issue I’d let them know that you’re for the next couple months you’re hunting less avidly than you previously had. I definitely wouldn’t call it a leave of absence or even “stepping back”- anything that implies you’re taking a break may put you on the Unavailable list and you won’t get any calls (and they don’t always remember to take you off of that list)

      2. No. Again, if it comes up, I’d frame it in the positive. “I’m taking some time to do some work with [art]. It’s something that I’ve been doing on the side for a while, and I’m excited to have this opportunity to focus on it more!”

      3. No. This won’t hurt your reputation (probably), but it will mean that you aren’t top of mind. I’ve found that temp agencies like to have the same few people that they can call, and will go through that list before they go down to others

      Your plan sounds really cool! That’s awesome that you’re able to take some time to focus on your art (and on yourself!)

    2. A Girl Named Fred*

      Hi! I’m in staffing for a healthcare staffing agency, though I only just passed four months there. Based on my (limited) experience…

      1) You can if you want! My employer requires me to reach out to you every two weeks if I haven’t spoken with you, but if you give me a heads up that you can’t work then I can justify leaving you alone and won’t reach out as much. YMMV depending on your agency’s rules for their specialists!

      2) Depending on your specialist, some version of, “I’m busy with other commitments until [date], so I won’t be able to pick up until then,” would be fine. If you said that to me, I’d let you be until the date you told me, but some other staffers might continue checking in periodically.

      3) I don’t think so! If you’ve been professional and reliable up until this point, a brief time away shouldn’t change your reputation at all. Trust me, we know who our reliable folks are and we’re happy to work with you when you need it! You make our lives SO MUCH easier!!

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      If you feel like you need an explanation “I’m going to take some time to concentrate on some family stuff for a month or two” is neutral — it doesn’t indicate anything wrong with you or your enthusiasm for the job. And it’s true — you are your own family!

    4. Hillary*

      Writing it out, my one hesitation is the “right assignment” part. It’s straightforward to tell the agency you want to just do casual shifts for two months so you can focus on your freelance art commitments, but it’s complicated to say “I still want to interview but won’t accept everything.” Can you quantify what right assignment means in terms of practices that you’d like to work at? Essentially, can you give them a list of clear parameters?

      to ferrina’s point, you’ll need to bring yourself back to the top of their minds when you want to come back, but if you have a good reputation now that won’t be a problem. You’re demonstrating responsibility now by working your break into a natural space in the schedule instead of demanding it in the middle of an assignment.

  31. Presea*

    I feel like I really need a deep-dive crash course into time/energy management during the day when in a flexible position. I usually work ~35-40 hours a week but sometimes meetings and other demands can lead to 9-10 hour days on some days and 5 hour days on others, which is sustainable but doesn’t feel good and can leave me drained if a crisis or last-minute meeting pops up. I feel frazzled when I have to try to pencil in something like a 2 hour doctor’s appointment, even though in theory in my job that shouldn’t be an issue at all. I feel like I never have a chance to take a break during business hours, but that doesn’t match the reality most days; I’m just stuck in some weird, rigid thinking I need to identify and unlearn. My brain “understands” schedules like “I work 9am to 5pm with a 1 hour lunch at 1pm”, but trying to create a schedule like that is impossible in my position for a number of reasons (sudden crises, accommodating other people’s schedules for meetings, etc).

    Of course I can google and look for resources on my own, but if anyone here has any worthwhile resources to point me to or advice on this topic, I’d be super appreciative! Thank you!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Much sympathy. My coworkers like to move meetings *at* the start time. 10am meeting, 10:02am oh hey lets move this to 11:30. I do best with a rigid schedule too. What helped me was putting it into excel so I could just click and drag chunks of time around. Use cells as 30min slots. Meeting moved back 1.5 hours? insert 3 cells, everything shifts down, cut 3 cells lower down and paste them into the new cell. That visual representation of my day helps too. I put all my meetings in at the end of the week for the next week (copy from outlook etc), then first 15 min each day I adjust it to that day, and look over what I need, then fill in the open slots with work goals.

      1. Presea*

        Oooh, I really like the idea of using Excel for this – I’ve tried stuff like Google Calendar for visual time-tracking before but it always felt like a PITA to set up. Something like Excel seems much more manageable, thank you!

    2. Hlao-roo*

      One thought I have: for doctor’s appointments and other similar things, can you block off that time on your calendar? Not “pencil it in” like “I’m free at 3pm on Thursday right now but if something comes up at work I’ll have to reschedule the appointment” but put a two hour “out of office” meeting on your work calendar and refuse to move it for hell or high water. Do this for important things in your personal life that happen outside of normal work hours too, if you can (friend’s birthday party at 7pm? close your laptop, leave your company cell phone at home, and enjoy!).

      My job is mostly 9-5, so I don’t have any more helpful tips, but carving out some time for your personal life should help a little bit.

      1. Presea*

        That’s great advice, thank you! I think you’re onto something here with me… I do tend to feel pressure to be ready to hop back into work during my downtime. I’m lucky enough to work with people who are willing to respect my out of the office messages, thankfully, but I also need to respect them more! Finding a way to carve out more time that’s 100% mine no matter what is probably a good step.

    3. cubone*

      seconding Hlao-roo’s point (also the best username)! Try to change your mindset from WHAT the thing is to just “unavailable”. Have to log off by 5 to ensure you have enough time to get ready for dinner with a friend? You’re unavailable from 5 on. Doctors appointment 2-3? You’re unavailable 2PM on (or 1:30 if you need to travel, etc).

      Other note: Most of us can get a LOT less done than we think, frankly. Instead of judging, try to just notice it. 10 hour day with 5 meetings left you drained? Okay, so that’s a maximum limit for you and drains you so much that you’ll almost certainly need a lower key day the following. Or if you have a week of crazy days, a week of slower time etc. I think a lot of folks in “flexible” jobs actually aren’t actually conditioned to be flexible at all – they expect every day to be productive and efficient, but if the nature of the work means that one day is 150%, then another day has to be 50%. Not 150% and a 100%. Hopefully that makes sense?

      1. cubone*

        oh I wanted to add as an example for the second paragraph: there’s a concept in chronic illness/disability circles called “Spoon Theory”. I want to respect it as something for people with chronic illness and not appropriate it, but I think it can be a helpful example of what this means if you’re having trouble conceptualizing it. The underlying idea is you only have so many “spoons” (in a day, week, etc) and activities cost spoons, so you have to quantify the effort you’re expending and prioritize your efforts. You won’t just magically find more time or energy.

        1. Presea*

          Yeah, I completely get what you mean. I’m familiar with spoon theory, and its definitely an interesting paradigm to consider here… I have some health conditions that I’m juggling on top of everything, not quite to the point where I would call myself a spoonie but definitely to the point where fitting both work and basic life tasks into the week can be a challenge…

          I appreciate your points about how people in flexible jobs where the demands might be different day to day might put too much pressure on the slow days. I guess to some extent I feel like I’m failing if I have a 50% day, and that’s a problem I must solve via better time and energy management, but… you’re right, there’s going to be an ebb and flow in what I can give on a day just like there’s an ebb and flow to what the day needs from me.

        2. CatMintCat*

          I am badly affected by medication in the energy department, and tell people I have so many “steps” in me per day and if I exceed that, I pay for that. So, a big day on my feet all day? I’m good for nothing the next day or possibly two.

          My own variant of spoon theory I guess.

  32. Not a Mrs*

    Any scripts for getting someone to stop calling you “Mrs.” in an email? “Please just call me Janet” has not worked. This client is a known difficult quantity, so usually I try to ignore things like this from them, but it’s sexist and gross and bothering me to the point I need to say something. I know that they will push back with “I’m just being polite” but it’s not polite to call someone by the wrong name. I want to convey that 1. this is the incorrect way to refer to me specifically, so STOP and 2. there are reasons why you shouldn’t make calling all women “Mrs.” a general practice. I have plenty of capital that I don’t mind spending on this, so it’s okay if there is blowback to the content of what I say, but I do need it to be impeccably professional.

    1. Dust Bunny*

      I mean, it’s not polite to keep using a title or name that someone has asked you not to use. Is that something you could point out?

    2. irene adler*

      This is probably not a kind thing to do, but I’ve misaddressed them right back. Usually I call them “George” -something way different from their correct name. And I make a point to put it into the opening line.

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        I’ve done this too! Someone repeatedly got my name wrong after I corrected them so I intentionally called them Malt instead of Matt

        1. Not a Mrs*

          Oh I would LOVE to do this, but it doesn’t meet the bar for “I did nothing wrong” when it comes back to my boss.

          1. Temperance*

            What about responding to the group and calling only him Mr. (or Mrs., if you’re feeling particularly salty)? You then have the defense of feeling that he might have preferred it that way, because he keeps addressing you that way.

    3. Purple Cat*

      It sounds like you’ve tried to move it to “casual” communication, but they’re a stickler for formality. So have you suggested “Ms”? Or is the gendered marker an issue altogether?

      1. Not a Mrs*

        The gendered marker is the issue, because they only use it with the women in our office, i.e. the emails are “Dear Matt, Dear Chris, Dear Mrs. Smith”. I’m not personally opposed to the formality or being called Ms., but it’s the automatic assumption that every woman in the office is only the property of a man that I want to stop.

        1. Purple Cat*

          Oh, ewww, gross.
          Can you try – “I expect consistent communication from you to all of our employees. Since you address “Tom” as such, I expect you to address me as “Janet”.”

          This is a tough one, definitely worth sending it to Alison separately to see what she says.

        2. rage criers unite*

          oh no… i hate this.
          Maybe too direct, but I would be very tempted to call him out “hi George, I noticed that when you address emails to the men you use their first names, but when you address emails to the women in the office you use their last names with Mrs. attached. Its strange to make a distinction like this and I would like to ask you to stop doing so. Please address anything to me with my first name only.
          Thanks”

          1. pancakes*

            No, I think that’s good language, and anything less direct than that, they might not pick up on.

          2. LadyByTheLake*

            I would go with this language. Direct, to the point, gently points out the sexism without calling it that, scrupulously professional. I like it.

        3. Purple Cat*

          I wonder if you can also do a firm “play dumb” while bringing your own company values into play.
          Dear Client, As you know “firm” is committed to gender equality, your choice to address me by “Mrs” while all of the men on staff are addressed by their first name feels like it runs counter to our values. I trust you understand that my marital status has no bearing on my ability to do my work, so can you please be consistent in how you address our team.”

          This is so so hard. It sounds like you are worried about pushback from your own management on how you address this. is there a senior woman that you can run this by?

        4. The New Wanderer*

          “I do not use Mrs. as a title. Please address me by my first name as you do with the men.”

          Alternately, “Please extend the same courtesy to me that you do with the men and address me by my first name.”

        5. allathian*

          Sounds like the client believes that there can be no truly informal relationships between people of different genders, unless they’re family members of a similar “rank,” such as siblings. He’s an anachronism if so, I thought that sort of attitude had disappeared by the latter half of the 20th century, but apparently not.

    4. NeedRain47*

      If you’ve only tried “please just call me Janet”, try “Please don’t call me Mrs., I prefer Janet.” This is more direct but still polite. If it carries on after that, don’t bother to engage with any “I’m just being polite” or other argument b/c this person clearly is not trying to be polite, they’re trying to be a sexist jerk.

    5. Temperance*

      That’s so weird! I would respond and say that it’s most polite to refer to all people of all genders the same way, so if you’re calling men by their first name, you should do same for women and NB folks. And that Mrs. is NEVER appropriate in a work setting, because it solely defines women by their marital status.

      1. Massive Dynamic*

        +1 – death to Mrs. Ms. should always be the norm in business for anyone female-identifying.

      2. Slightly Less Evil Bunny*

        Agree. And agree with what Massive Dynamic wrote, too. Frankly, if someone is using Mrs. as default, I’m going to assume certain things about them.

        Slight tangent: I’ve seen some people include Mrs. in their signature block, which seems…weird? (I use Ms., but I would never have “Ms. Slightly Less Evil Bunny” as my signature block – it would just be “Slightly Less Evil Bunny”.) I’ve seen it in military offices though, so maybe they’re compensating for not having military rank? Dunno, but it definitely seems odd.

    6. RagingADHD*

      With someone like this, focus on changing the behavior because changing their attitude is beyond the scope of what you are capable of influencing.

      “I am not a Mrs. I have told you repeatedly not to refer to me that way. You are being very rude, and it needs to stop.”

      Send this message by itself, not included with anything else. If you have the authority to do so, don’t respond to any other part of their message/issue until they have acknowledged that they will stop doing it.

    7. Need More Sunshine*

      There’s something about “Please just call me Janet” that can make it easy for this type of person to push past. But if you rephrase to “Please do not call me Mrs.; I go by Janet” that is more direct and definitive, giving less room for this person to stomp your boundaries. And also gives you something very concrete to refer back to when they inevitable stomp those boundaries again – “I’ve asked you not to call me Mrs. Is there a reason why you cannot respect that request?”

    8. cmcinnyc*

      I point out that I’m Ms., as my husband’s name is not my last name. Mrs. My Last Name is my mom. If she won’t call you Janet make her switch to Ms. Janet. If she won’t, she’d doing it on purpose because she knows it bugs you. I’m sure you can find a professionally unassailable way to make her life slightly difficult in return.

      1. cmcinnyc*

        Oop, realizing it’s a he and he’s def doing this to be a jerk. I might ask him to address me as Admiral or Majesty in this case.

    9. DarthVelma*

      There have been several good suggestions for both kind and more firm ways to address this.

      If none of those work, the nuclear option is always open – don’t answer any email or other form of communication where he addresses you as Mrs.

    10. Hillary*

      I usually hear it from either people from the south who were taught that it’s a sign of respect or people from Germany where they weren’t taught Ms. in school. The people from the south usually respond well to jokes (don’t promote me, I’m still a miss or Mrs. LastName is my grandma, please call me Hillary; always over the phone or face to face, this wouldn’t fly on email), Germans get a polite and factual did-you-know about titles and American business English.

      A lot of ESL speakers haven’t been taught the miss-mrs-ms distinction, especially if the equivalent words relate to age/respect versus marriage in their first language. I usually decide to let it go, it’s rarely worth the effort for me.

      1. allathian*

        Oh yes, adult women are addressed as Frau, Madame, or Señora in Germany, France, and Spain respectively, regardless of marital status.

          1. Hillary*

            they’re still used, but just for girls and young women. The distinction is closer to US-ian miss/ma’am than miss/mrs.

    11. Cocafonix*

      “Please call me Janet. I really do not prefer ‘Mrs. Flibbernibbit’”
      “Oh, I’m just being polite.”
      “In that case I’m sure you would not mean to cause offence by referring to me incorrectly. Please call me Janet, thank you.”

  33. Eric*

    A professional acquaintance asked me for a referral to my company, did one round of interviews, and just cancelled the second, that’s supposed to be in an hour, by texting me. Because “your company’s mission isn’t exciting enough for me.” C’mon man, have some tact. That’s such a rude and self-aggrandizing thing to say. And he texted me this! I asked our recruiter and she hasn’t heard from him. Ridiculous.

    I want to tell him to stop being dumb and unprofessional. But he’s mid-career so he’s definitely bailed/ghosted an interview because he thought the job might be “boring,” and super active on LinkedIn, so it’d just get spun into a “you don’t owe anyone anything, never stop grinding, #hustle” viral post.

    1. Hei Hei, the Chicken from Moana*

      What can hurt by telling him he’s being a dink? Do you care about burning the bridge?

      1. Eric*

        Yeah. This guy has a ridiculously inflated sense of self importance, so I don’t him blowing it out of proportion and trashing me. There’s also the question of whether I’m acting as a representative of the company, since I referred him.

        1. Eric*

          “This guy has a ridiculously inflated sense of self importance, so I don’t want him blowing it out of proportion.”

          I accidentally a word. Sorry!

          Also he’s kind of messy on Twitter. I may be acting too meek but I don’t want to be on the radar of a guy who thinks he’s God’s gift to our profession and chronically overshares on his socials.

          1. pancakes*

            I think that’s exactly the right call with someone like that. It also doesn’t seem likely he’d take advice from a peer to be more professional to heart at this point (more so than the loss of job opportunities, at least).

    2. EMP*

      Sympathies! But your best bet may be to just write this guy off as a loss. If he asks for a referral again remind him that last time he put you in the awkward position of referring him for an interview he ghosted, and don’t make another introduction.

    4. anonymous73*

      Assuming you didn’t setup the interview, tell him he needs to contact the person who did if he wants to cancel. And you are well within your right to tell him he’s being unprofessional.

    5. Jean*

      Live and learn. Next time don’t refer people, even friends, who are terminally online egomaniacs.

      1. Eric*

        Live and learn indeed. Thought he’d be a decent referral because I know he can walk the walk as well as talk the talk, but I guess he wasn’t. It’s obnoxious but not the end of the world.

        The guy used to work for Pepsi, so “your mission isn’t exciting” is both bull and incredibly rude.

    6. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      I don’t see anything wrong with deciding a job or company isn’t a good fit for you. Whether it’s the company’s mission, the hours, the money, or just whatever.
      That said, if you are going to bow out of the interview process one should always be professional about it!

      I’m assuming here that he wasn’t as glib with the HR team? So, perhaps he feels he can be more friendly/chummy with you for some reason? I would tell him that was an unprofessional way to respond to anyone who gives him a referral.

  34. Nethwen*

    About six months ago, someone interviewed with my organization. They were career-changers in grad school for our profession and ended up not having the skills we needed for the role, but I was so impressed with their preparation and how they handled the interview that I wished I could have created a role for them.

    If I see an opportunity that seems like it might benefit from a merging of skills from the person’s previous and current professions, is it okay to email the person and mention it, especially since it isn’t a formal position so much as a “here’s a need that no one’s filling; I think your skills might be the missing piece; maybe you could create a side gig out of it” type of situation? The opportunity has nothing to do with me or my organization, but probably wouldn’t even be known to someone who hadn’t spent significant time in our profession.

    Basically, I really liked the candidate and want them to succeed, but also don’t want to overstep or give the wrong impression about how I’m able to help them.

    1. EMP*

      This seems fine to me, as you can consider them a professional connection. I would just make sure that someone like HR has closed the loop with them about the position with your current place so they don’t think this has to do with an outstanding candidacy.

  35. Quinn*

    Hi Quinn, this isn’t something that this forum is able to handle here. Please call the National Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255.

      1. Quinn*

        Thanks. I want to quit, but my family needs me to work. I will feel instantly better once this job is behind me. I just wish my spouse would support me wanting to quit without another job lined, but he doesn’t want to work so I am stuck.

        1. Jessi*

          I’m really sorry to have to point this out but why do your spouses wants get to trump your needs? I didn’t see your original post but it sounds like you have a job problem and a marriage problem- at the very least your spouse is thoughtless, which may or may kg be better than them choosing to ignore your suffering

    2. Hello from similar boat*

      Just wanted to comment to say hang in there. Toxic jobs can make you feel so awful about yourself, but you will find something better. In the meantime, just do your best and try to emotionally detach (I know it’s so hard). I am in my last week of a toxic job and my supervisor has been shaking my confidence as I head to the next one, but I just try to remind myself that I’m not perfect but I do my best and that nothing I do for work has to do with my value as a person, and that all the stress and petty drama will be eventually be forgotten once I’ve moved on.

      1. Quinn*

        Thank you. I decided that if I can get another job that I will not give any notice and pretend the last 5 months never happened. I will never need them as a reference. Every day I have panic attacks thinking about how doing some aspect of my job or needing my boss’s approval or tell her something – will have her saying something to cut me to nothing again. Every day you find out another batch of people quit across the entire organization. I just keep saying to myself – I know it isn’t me.

        1. cubone*

          I didn’t see your original post but I think I have roughly some idea. I wanted to share something a friend who is a career counsellor told me (I wish I had a reference to the research but forgot to ask!) that I can’t stop thinking about. Basically, research has shown for a long time that unemployment has negative health impacts (mental and physical)… but we’re starting to understand that precarious employment (poorly paid, unprotected, insecure) and also very likely employment that is deeply toxic and/or overworked has the SAME negative health impacts.

          In other words: being in a precarious/bad job appears to impact humans as badly as not having any job.

          This isn’t to convince you to quit when you financially can’t swing it – many of us know that experience and it’s very frustrating and isolating. But just that the way you’re feeling and the impact this job is having is very, very real and we are starting to understand that more and more scientifically. I hope you can find ways to cope with it (however possible), but it’s clearly not a lack of effort or ability on your part. I hope things get better soon.

    3. Hotdog not dog*

      You may feel that you can’t afford to get out, but it seems to me that you can’t afford NOT to get out.
      I am willing to bet that your experience counts a heck of a lot more than you realize…that your toxic company is using that to gaslight you indicates that they know it too.
      Sending you positive vibes to move up and out soon.

  36. matcha123*

    I will be starting a new job in a few weeks.
    Any tips on how to make a good first impression? For background, I graduated college over 10 years age (eek!) and have been working pretty much non-stop since then.

    The work I will be doing will have entirely new subject matter, but in my field. Think going from designing sedans to designing mini vans.
    I’m not sure what level they are expecting from me, either. Since some parts will be entirely new, ie- working with Slack and some other programs, I expect there to be a bit of a learning curve.
    How would you all expect a non-managerial, mid-career transfer to act when they join your place? (I always try to keep a pleasant demeanor and stay on good terms with all I meet!)

    As a follow-up, are there any boundaries that you all try to set early in a new position? If so, what are they and how to do you about introducing them?

    1. Minimal Pear*

      Sounds like we’re in p. different work situations but in general I try to immediately establish that I’m that work-life balance person. Yes I am taking a lunch break no you will not see me during it. I am logging in at this time and out at this time and I will not change that unless it’s urgent. If you try to contact me outside of my usual hours it will not work. Etc etc.

    2. Hillary*

      Take a look at the book The First 90 Days by Michael D. Watson.

      At that level, we expect reasonable self-sufficiency (you know how to use the phone and email, you’ll figure out how to use the systems, etc). Beyond that the most important thing is humility – framing things as “that’s interesting – why do you do it that way” not “you’re doing it all wrong.” The more complex a job, the longer it takes to be immersed and productive, don’t get down on yourself if you feel unproductive 3 or 4 months in. The learning curve is much steeper here. Make networking a conscious activity, schedule time to get to know people and keep doing it. Building relationships is key to success in many roles.

      For boundaries, I try to identify the gossips and stay out of it. I’m friendly and polite, and I share business info back and forth, but I don’t/won’t talk about peoples’ personal lives beyond reasonable public updates.

      1. matcha123*

        I’ve never heard of that book, thanks for the recommendation.
        I definitely stay away from the gossips.

  37. A nonny non for this*

    How do you list SEVERAL position titles at one employer? Do I need to denote what I did in each role? Do I even need to list them all out? Like is it important to know I started as a manager and then was a senior manager – should that just be collapsed into manager?

    Director, Alpacas & Llamas 2021-present
    Assistant Director, Alpacas 2016-2020
    Senior Mgr, Llamas & Alpacas 2015-2016
    Lllama, Alpaca, Related Animals Manager 2010-2014
    Llama Manager 2009-2010

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I don’t think Manager to Senior Manager is a big enough thing to point out unless your role actually changed. I might put them both in the title section but keep one job description, if that makes sense.

    2. londonedit*

      Might not work for you but what I’ve done is put the company name and dates as the headline, then my current position, and then explained under:

      ‘Llama Grooming Experts Plc 2009-present
      Director, Alpacas & Llamas

      Having begun my career at Llama Grooming Experts as Llama Manager in 2009, I have since worked my way up to Director, Alpacas & Llamas. Key responsibilities in my current role include managing the grooming schedule, developing strategy for growth and providing line management support to the junior Llama Managers (with 6 direct reports in total).’

    3. Purple Cat*

      It depends on how different the work was under each title. I have this 2 ways in mine
      Where the work/accomplishments are completely different, keep them as different jobs/bullet points.
      Where I only got a promotion, but the work is exactly the same I have:
      Senior Lama Groomer 2018 to present.
      – Promoted from Llama Groomer Feb 2022
      – Accomplishments.

      Where I got a promotion and kept responsibility for the old stuff I have:
      Manager xxx
      – continued responsibility for Y
      – more accomplishments

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Mine have been mostly progressive enough that I did list them separately.

      Manager, Whole-Ass Tea Services, 2021-present
      Team Lead, Sugar Bowls and Creamer Pitchers, 2016-2021
      Painter and Polisher, Coffee Cups and Saucers, full-time 2014-2016 (PRN to present following 2016 promotion)
      Teapot Lid Inspector, 2014

      with anywhere from 1-4 bullet points under each one. (The two oldest, when I was an individual contributor, only have three bullet points between them, the management jobs have more bullet points.)

    5. Joielle*

      I’d list all the titles the way you have them, but do one job description encompassing them all. I think the phrase “increasing levels of responsibility” might help you out in talking about some of the general duties. Aside from that, I’d probably focus most on your Director work, since that’s really what matters for purposes of your current job search. But if there were any particularly significant accomplishments or projects from your earlier positions, could include those too.

  38. Elle Woods*

    I’ve had a lot of recruiters reach out to me the past couple of weeks, which has been nice even when it’s a mixed bag. Some positions are a good match for my skills and interests; others are not. In a couple of instances, the positions they were trying to fill were either outside my area of expertise, required relocation, or offered abysmal salary and/or benefits.

    For the positions that are of interest to me, I obviously follow up. But, for those that are definite no, do I need to–or should I–send a reply essentially saying, “thanks, but I’m not interested in this position. Best of luck filling the role”? I tend to be err on the side of closing the loop.

    1. Jay Rce*

      I was just ignoring those ones however I have now started to respond stating I am not interested in that specific role. It’s opened up some conversations which may provide a new lead down the road.

    2. Scott*

      If these contacts are coming via email, I think it’s definitely appropriate to email back to thank them for contacting you but the particular position would not be a good fit for me. I think ignoring them may result in not being contacted in the future and they may have a position you would want.

    3. ecnaseener*

      You never *have* to – recruiters are very accustomed to their initial messages going unanswered. You won’t upset them.

      If you get the sense they genuinely think it’s a good fit and just missed the mark, it might be worth it to reply so they’ll be more likely to circle back with other postings.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Forgot to finish my thought – as opposed to if you think they’re just blasting out messages to everyone with a relevant keyword in their resume, in which case don’t bother.

    4. ArtK*

      I try to respond to everyone. It doesn’t take much to say “Thanks, but no thanks.” I *will* however snark at someone who clearly didn’t read my profile. Think: Job is for a sanitation engineer and I’m a software engineer. I view that as a favor to a rookie recruiter and to all of their future contacts.

    5. anonymous73*

      Nope, no need to reply unless you’re interested in the position. I get tons of emails from recruiters and it’s clear with a large majority of them they never bothered to actually read my resume. If it’s for a position that I have no experience in or haven’t held in over 10 years, I mark it as spam. The others I ignore. IME most recruiters only care about numbers. They use computer programs to look for key words, but never bother to verify that you’re actually required for the job. You owe them nothing.

  39. DeeDee*

    I have a colleague who sends emails with statements or ideas and then follows them up with “Thoughts?”

    He’s a great co-worker, but this drives me crazy.

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      What kind of job? What kind of thoughts? It could be acceptable in some jobs. We have loads of room to increase productivity and efficiency so I don’t necessarily mind these, as long as the person is willing to actually help with some of the work.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      “Sounds great dave”
      “No problems with that dave”
      “Ok dave”
      “Let me take a closer read through this tomorrow and get back to you early next week Dave”

      Thoughts don’t have to be anything deep. Sometimes its just verifying nothing looks weird. My one boss used to do that and it sometimes just meant he wanted a second set of eyes on it, making sure nothing got mixed up (“Dave, you wrote the ABC cell line but I think you may have meant to use the DEFG cells instead”).

    3. Bernice Clifton*

      I’m kind of a smartass, so depending on the relationship I would reply with totally random shower thoughts.

      “The client wants the option to switch from chocolate to vanilla teapots. Thoughts?”

      “Do you realize one day your parents put you down and never picked you up again?”

    4. HannahS*

      Really? Why? I always thought that was shorthand for, “What are your thoughts on this matter?”

    5. anonymous73*

      Why does it drive you crazy? Is it because his generic “Thoughts?” is unclear as to what he actually wants in reply? To me it just means he’d like feedback. But if it happens every single time he sends an email, as if he can’t make a decision without input from others, that is a problem and would drive me nuts too. I’d just ignore the email unless you actually have valid thoughts to contribute.

    6. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      I do this. I also work in a creative area. It doesn’t mean anything except you’re trying to INCLUDE people in the process and solicit their opinion or input. I mean, what else are you supposed to say? Because, sure as shit, the one time you don’t include or ask people about their “thoughts” they get mad and say they were “never informed” or had “no input” into whatever creative thing it is you’re making and they suddenly, definitely have thoughts.

      If you do not wish to be included, you can always respond with something like:
      “Thanks Wakeen! It’s good with me, but you don’t have to include me or ask me for my thoughts on this topic unless it’s something you need a definite decision about.”

  40. Saraquill*

    Is there ever an instance of micromanaging being a good thing? Pre COVID, my last position was ok when I was in office, and pretty hands off the years I was remote. When I returned to the office post lockdown, post degree-finishing sabbatical, things were very different. Both Boss and Manager would look over our shoulders several times a day, and we, mostly me and another long timer, would get criticized or yelled at for things big and small, like a slightly crooked tag, following instructions, not following the instructions no one told me, etc.

    I’m no longer working there, just trying to make sense of things. I figured the reason behind this behavior was in service of making better teapots, yet Boss and Manager took me off the assignments I was good at and gave me minimal to no training on new work. I don’t know how anyone could make a better teapot under the circumstances.

    1. Bernice Clifton*

      In my opinion, it’s not “good” but it’s better than bosses who expect you to read their mind and penalize you when you don’t.

    2. ecnaseener*

      I feel like “micromanaging” is the word for being TOO hands-on, so by definition it’s bad. Hands-on is good in moderation.

      Sounds like what you’re describing was the bad kind! Even if it produced better teapots sometimes, it demoralized employees who could’ve otherwise gone on to make good teapots with less hand-holding. And on top of that they were yelling at you, which isn’t inherent to micromanaging but is very much crappy management.

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        I agree with this. “Managing” is the appropriate level of managing for the situation — “micromanaging” by definition is too much. If the question is whether there is a time and place for a more “hands on” management style, the answer is “yes” — when some is new, struggling or the team is working on a project that needs a lot of management input and direction, a hands on style, that still allows people to do their jobs, would be fine.

    3. anonymous73*

      Nope, never. As a manager you treat your employees as adults. You trust them to finish their work and come to you when necessary. If they prove to be a problem or take advantage of your trust than you work with them to resolve the issues, but that resolution should never include micromanagement.

    4. PollyQ*

      Only in the very earliest stages of training, where the new employee really doesn’t yet know how to do anything. Even there, many people learn better by being hands-on and learning from their mistakes. And no, the behavior isn’t really in the service of making a better product. It’s usually in the service of making the manager feel like they’re doing something, or perhaps as a way to manage their own anxiety.

    5. tamarak & fireweed*

      Micromanaging is bad enough, but even that term doesn’t include overly critical attitudes, yelling of any sort, or unclear / contradictory instructions. (I don’t know what a crooked tag is – in my field I am complete master of any of my tags, and whether they are crooked is no one’s business, insofar as they can be crooked anyway. I have a hard time imagining what could possibly justify harsh criticism.)

      Even when a new, or underperforming, employee is managed closely for a while, this may look like micromanaging if it was applied to an experienced professional – but wouldn’t be because it’s a temporary specially justified measure. And it still would not include all the other bad things.

      I think your management was highly insecure, in disarray and lacking strategy, and took it out on you.

  41. Persephone*

    Any advice on hiring bonuses, or whatever we call cash for new hires? I’d like to move on from my current job and I know these are A Thing, but has anyone ever gotten one? How did you negotiate it? Did it come with terms?

    1. EMP*

      I asked for a hiring bonus to compensate me for a “retention bonus” I would have to repay if I left my current job. I gave them the number I’d have to repay and asked them if they could cover half, which they agreed to. This was after I had an offer (and was trying to negotiate salary for the first time). I forget the exact terms but I think I’d have lost the hiring bonus if I left within the first 3 months (or they didn’t pay it until I’d been there 3 months?) something like that, which I think is pretty normal.

    2. Miel*

      At my company, there are sometimes referral bonuses, new-grad hiring bonuses, moving allowances, and hiring bonuses (for important hard-to-fill roles, like production).

      I haven’t ever negotiated one, but good luck!

    3. Purple Cat*

      Like most things, you just have to *ask* as directly as possible.
      When you get an offer, if you’re asking for more money for the annual salary, I would start there, but you can ask for a sign-on bonus “instead”. If you’re giving up anything at your current job like a bonus, or you have to pay back training $ definitely ask for that as a sign-on bonus instead. At my company our vacation payout is higher if we leave in Q3 than it is in Q2, so if I were to leave now, I’d ask new company to pay me that difference – or accept they’re not getting me right away.

    4. Hen in a Windstorm*

      I once got one when I was moving from a temp to perm role and my new company coudn’t meet my salary request. The hiring manager got me a little signing bonus instead. (In retrospect, this wasn’t great, because my base salary was low for a long time.)

    5. Miel*

      Terms: yes, I think I had to stay with the company for a year, otherwise I’d have had to pay back my hiring bonus and relocation bonus.

  42. Management approaches*

    I have a high-performing employee who recently came out as non-binary. My organization is pretty good about changing names and pronouns in systems, and I arranged for new business cards etc and worked with them to communicate the change to colleagues. I know “Chris” is working with a therapist and I have been as proactively supportive as I can. I’ve also told them that I will advocate them, which is one of my cornerstone values as a manager, for all my reports. In every 1:1, Chris has said they don’t always feel included and are the victim of microaggressions. Examples from Chris include “Meghan” referring to them by their former name (in the next message, Meghan profusely apologized and has not repeated the mistake), and Bob and Sally not inviting Chris to lunch (except Bob and Sally never ask anyone to lunch), and my grandboss not immediately recognizing them in a meeting (it was the first time the grandboss had seen Chris in person since the announcement, and Chris had cut their hair very short, changed their wardrobe pretty dramatically in the transition, and was wearing a face mask.) When asked what they’d like me to do, Chris says nothing, they “just want you to know what’s going on.” I lean hard into being empathetic and validating their feelings, but they seem unsatisfied. Chris is our first openly non-binary employee and I’m sure this is hard, lonely experience. But, ugh, are these even microaggressions? I’m really not sure how to navigate these conversations which always seem to end with both of us frustrated.

    1. Minimal Pear*

      I would count Meghan’s as a microaggression–not just because of the name mistake but because of the profuse apology. A lot of times when someone uses the wrong pronoun/name, they make it a million times worse by making a huge deal out of the apology, to the point where it becomes all about them instead. Like, they can just say “sorry, didn’t mean to do that” and move on. I’m not saying that Meghan did the full self-centered apology, but I can practically guarantee that Chris HAS gotten that from at least one other person in their life, and so any profuse apology probably isn’t gonna feel great right now.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        To add a little more, a lot of times microaggressions aren’t meant to be, well, aggressions. They’re meant to be compliments or neutral statements or honest mistakes. Unfortunately, when you’re the person who’s getting hit with the same type of thing over and over again, it gets old quick and it really wears you down.

        1. Management approaches*

          I think that’s it exactly! I’m sure Chris is exhausted by the constant, ‘small’ things that happen. None of our colleagues seem to be repeat offenders (well, aside from Bob and Sally). I’m not sure how to respond in a way that’s helpful to Chris, and Chris doesn’t know either.

          1. Temperance*

            It could very well be that Chris is experiencing a lot of microaggressions in their daily life, so things like the lack of lunch invites might stand out more as discriminatory to them, if that makes sense. Even if it’s not wholly accurate.

            It sounds like they want to feel heard and seen. I can’t imagine how awkward and difficult transitioning at work is, and especially if it’s binary to non-binary rather than binary to binary.

            1. Minimal Pear*

              Agreed, as a disabled person I can find myself being a little oversensitive to this because I really DO face so many microaggressions. But then I’m also like… is it internalized ableism that’s telling me I’m being oversensitive? Love to go in circles about that, ughhh.

        2. ThursdaysGeek*

          Sure, but when the people around you are trying, and not being perfect in the way you want, it doesn’t look good for you to expect all the grace but give none of it.

    2. Anon for this*

      Kudos to Chris and your rapport with Chris that they feel comfortable bringing these concerns to you! I’m in a similar boat. Came out last year and some of my very, very well-meaning, wonderful colleagues (one of whom has a trans child and has never slipped up with that child’s pronouns!) still use the same she/her pronouns, often in the same breath as my new masculine name. They do it without thinking and only a few catch themselves. It’s actually kind of funny to hear “If you need more information, reach out to Chad* and she’ll help you.”

      I know they/them is hard for some folks, but every time it happens, even when they apologize and move on, it does send me into a bit of a tailspin. It is bruising every time it happens no matter how well-intentioned the person making the mistake is.

      It’s wonderful that you recognize this is an issue and want to solve it. But I truly think there is only so much you can do, and what you’ve done–helped change Chris’ name and pronouns in the system and helped communicate the change–is great. I would take Chris’ “just want you to know what’s going on” at face value, reiterate that you’re there to advocate for them, and then advocate–when they give you something actionable (e.g., Meghan keeps messaging me to apologize profusely, and I would like her to stop), which so far they have not. A lot of this is something we nonbinary folks have to wrangle with ourselves. (And with our therapists. I have one too. I save my gripes about the gender binary for our sessions.)

      *Not my real name, of course! But along those lines.

    3. RagingADHD*

      I think listening and being understanding of Chris’ mindset right now is what they need and what you can do.

      If Chris were demanding that you do something inappropriate (like file a formal complaint about not being recognized), it would be a situation where you need to correct them. Chris needs to feel heard, and the fact that you don’t have to jump up and do something about every single thing, is part of giving them a safe spot to unload a little.

    4. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Meghan accidently called her coworker by the wrong name and then apologized (which yes could be considered a microaggression but it’s also a very common thing to forget a name, or forget the name change, and let’s not assume malice when simple explanations are perfectly adequate). Bob and Sally did what they always do – not invite people to lunch with them (which isn’t all that friendly, but they’re being equally and impartially unfriendly). Grandboss didn’t recognize someone who they hadn’t seen in some time AND who had changed their appearance quite a bit AND was wearing a mask (good luck getting me to recognize you the next day).

      Chris needs to chill. I get that things are likely very raw for them, but they are also jumping to “everyone hates me” when the situation really sounds (for now at least) much more like “humans are imperfect and make mistakes but it’s not personal”. Now, if the situation changes where people are discriminating or being nasty, then that’s not ok and you deal with it if it happens.

      1. Anon for this*

        Now THIS is a shining example of a microaggression (maybe even an overt aggression!) and something you could address if any of Chris’ colleagues came to you with this mindset, Management approaches. “Just saying,” being nonbinary is not a trend. I’m sure it must feel that way, with the internet acting as a magnifying glass. But we nonbinary folks have been around for a long time.

        I do agree that Chris needs to extend some grace to their colleagues as they adjust to the new look and pronouns. I’m sure Chris feels like they’re under a microscope and the whole world is against them. Especially if they’re encountering attitudes like this online. But it’s on Chris to manage those feelings, not Chris’ manager.

      2. Lyuda*

        Being non-binary is not a trend, non-binary and other trans ppl people are in fact part of ‘reality’, and this should have stayed in the drafts.

    6. Persephone*

      So, my name is, say Sharon. I go by a completely different name, say Rebecca. It has nothing to do with my gender identity. However, people mess it up. A lot. My boss did it in a meeting yesterday because he saw Sharon on the virtual meeting screen (client uses legal names, on their system, whatever). The apology was more annoying than the error. But I share because name screw ups are really common and I think more of a people-gonna-make-mistakes thing, even if it doesn’t feel that way.

      I think the Bob and Sally stuff is a bit ridiculous. I never invite people to eat with me. I like to eat alone, at my desk (and read AAM). Bob and Sally just might not want to socialize at lunch. They might just be introverts who use the time to decompress. Or whatever. But it’s their lunch, and they get to eat it with whomever they want (or by themselves). Now, if they were inviting the whole group but ignoring one person, that would be different.

    7. Irish Teacher*

      Is it possible Chris just wants this stuff on record in case a pattern emerges? Like they’re not sure if Meghan deliberately deadnamed them or not and they want it on record in case she continues to do it?

    8. Miel*

      OP: kudos for caring about and supporting your employee! It sounds like this is tough on everyone right now.

      Being nonbinary is tough, no matter what, and I don’t think that’s realistically going to disappear overnight.

      But I do think it might be helpful for you to get some support. Does your company have an LGBTQ employee resource network, a trans-competent HR person, an EAP that can help with management issues, or any other resources? Maybe you could hire a local org to come in and do a “trans 101” training. Ask around for ways to make your workspace more welcoming to LGBTQ (particularly trans and nonbinary) employees. [Note: try to make sure your employee is comfortable with anything you do – they may not want to feel singled out.]

      Again, nothing is going to be solved overnight, but with some additional resources/ education/ support, everyone on the team might feel a little more comfortable.

      1. Miel*

        A few thoughts on making a more gender- inclusive environment. It sounds like you may already be doing many of these!

        – interrupt hurtful comments or jokes
        – enforce dress code fairly (don’t punish someone for wearing clothing that’s not typical for their gender; have a gender neutral dress code)
        – try not to make assumptions about people’s gender, family, etc
        – try to use less-gendered words (instead of “hey guys” say “hey everyone”; don’t use male as the default gender)
        – respect people’s privacy (don’t out someone without their permission, don’t ask invasive questions)
        – refer to people the way they want to be referred to (name and pronouns)
        – if possible, designate all-gender restrooms (single stall restrooms can be made all-gender with just the change of a sign!)

        Google or search this blog for more ideas! Nonbinary inclusion at work has come up before.

        Thanks again for all you’re doing.

    2. Unkempt Flatware*

      Just reading this at the bottom of my screen and not yet scrolling up to see your real comment….was pretty damn funny. I was like, “cool story, bro”.

  44. Dwight Schrute*

    My work laptop is broken and has been for a few weeks now, IT has it and is waiting on a part for it. In the meantime, I’m to logon to our vpn from my personal computer versus directly using my ID. The vpn is known to be spotty but I haven’t been able to log on at all since lunch yesterday! I need to in order to work. IT thinks it’s a problem with my wifi, I disagree because everything else works fine. How do I deal with this weird feeling of not being able to work and having a lot of downtime while still being paid?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      You need the proper tools to do your job (in this case, a company laptop and/or a working VPN connection). If your tools are being repaired and replaced, you can’t do any work but your company is still paying you to be available so you can start working as soon as the tools are ready. It is a weird feeling, but enjoy the unexpected downtime as best you can.

      1. Dragonfly7*

        I did this, and I also had an industry-related book on hand in case my WiFi went out while I was working from home. My manager considers it professional development.

    3. OneTwoThree*

      I wouldn’t stress over it the downtime. However, are there other administrative things you could do during your downtime? For example, organize/ deep clean your desk, purge files, work on documenting and defining your goals, visit the store to get office supplies you’ll eventually need, watch educational youtube vids related to your job, coffee with a networking contact, etc.

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        I work from home so I generally keep the area pretty tidy! But I can work on reading articles

    4. Purple Cat*

      Enjoy it, because I’m sure you’re going to have to bust A*& when it’s working again and you have to catchup.

    5. Raboot*

      > How do I deal with this weird feeling

      Since you’re coming up on 24+ hours, maybe at least try using another wifi network like at a cafe? You don’t have to work there but it would be good troubleshooting info for IT either way. But other than that, enjoy it! I lose wifi sometimes and I don’t really worry about it. The company is welcome to pay to install business-grade fiber at my home if they wish. And in your case, you don’t even have a company laptop! And it’s been that way for weeks! As long as your boss is in the loop, go forth and read a book or take a walk. Maybe be accessible on chat from your phone if that’s a thing for your role.

    6. WellRed*

      The problem isn’t your WiFi, the problem is your work laptop is broken and they have neither fixed nor replaced it. Do they not have a spare laptop for just this sort of thing?

  45. Alexandra*

    I need a ruling: am I right to be worried?

    My industry largely delivers construction materials to construction sites – residential, condos, hospitals, etc. In my region, labour negotiations have broken down, nearly 30K workers are on strike, and the sites we deliver to have halted all work. The company I work for is currently bleeding money; we went from making anywhere between 500k to a million a day to… not making that. In an early response to this, my company laid off my entire department (~25 people) for four days; we were told we could either go on unpaid leave or take our vacation time, but we had to GTFO. I don’t know what is happening in other departments. I’m pretty sure our shops are running skeletal. We were brought back and given back those vacation days (largely due to my skip level pushing back against upper management), but I’m still quite alarmed. I haven’t been at this job for a full year and even though my team lead is very happy with my work, she has also quietly made it clear that we, as a team, need to continue to be productive and work extra hard to justify ourselves as employees right now. I don’t feel secure anymore and have started job hunting in earnest. (Thanks to AAM’s resume tips, I have done so many phone interviews this week!)

    Back to my original question – am I right to be worried? Or, if you were me, would you be concerned? Am I jumping the gun looking for an exit window? This is my second job post-university and my previous environment was a lot less structured with little to no top-down guidance or pressure, so this is new territory. (Please note that I am not American and any American-based legal or labour advice will not be of any use to me.)

    1. Saraquill*

      This is a concerning situation. In your shoes, I’d translate worry into action, polishing my resume and sending out applications.

    2. After 33 years ...*

      Is the ongoing strike the only reason why the company is in trouble?
      Is the strike directed specifically at your company, or is it a broader action against several firms?
      How long do strikes typically last in your country? Are the parties far apart in negotiations?
      I ask these, because I have seen what appear to be irreconcilable labour differences settled within days, and other strikes which went on for months or years (in one case, ending without settlement and the firm’s bankruptcy).

      1. Alexandra*

        Strike action commenced 12:01 AM on 2 May, and has been growing ever since. More and more unions are joining the strike by the day. Our skip level anticipated it would take two days for them to come to terms, but that has not been the case.

        It is not directed toward my company at all. Think of it like – all the nurses are striking, and we produce and deliver hospital gloves specifically for nurses. We sell to the companies that employ the striking workers, so our loss is a byproduct, but it is not the result of anything my company did. Our own union workers are still working.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Bleeding money.

      “Justify” yourself as employees?

      You are right to be worried. Look for that exit window.

    4. Anonosaurus*

      Yes, I would be concerned about this given what you say about the loss of turnover. I’ve been in jobs where we had our hours cut because of cash flow problems. If your company needed to get you off the payroll even for a week that’s not a good sign. Hopefully this crisis will resolve but you are not overreacting.

    5. PollyQ*

      Hugely, enormously worried. Start job-hunting NOW, ideally in a different industry.

    6. Alex*

      Yeah I think you are right to be worried about possible layoffs. It never hurts to job hunt! Good luck.

    7. Working Hypothesis*

      Yes, I would be worried enough to look for something else. It’s possible that your company will survive the strike and everything will go back to normal. But honestly, 1) I’m not at all sure it’ll last, from what you’ve said, until this growing strike finally comes to an end, and 2) even if it does, your company is losing so much money and clearly running so close to the edges of its endurance, that I’m not sure that even post-strike it could regain its health and stamina.

  46. Crying Is A Free Action*

    I’m starting a grad program this fall (yay!) and I’m wondering how other folks have managed working full time and going to school part time. The course represents a career shift for me and I’ve started applying for entry level positions in that field as a way to make my work/school life more cohesive. Another option is to keep my current (demanding, stressful, boring) job which would allow me to largely pay for school as I go. Or maybe something in between? Halp!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Congrats!

      Physical planner notebook will be your friend. Especially when integrating multiple email calendars and to do lists. Target has them for about 12 bucks usually.

      I’d lean toward focusing on school first, then putting whatever open hours into whatever job you can find. Can you get any jobs that are giving you experience in the field you’re doing grad school in? Or jobs that open doors for milestones in the grad program (lab work before science phd etc).

    2. Elizabeth West*

      None of my jobs had anything to do with what I was studying, but I managed to earn two undergraduate degrees in evening college while working full time during the day.

      One thing that really helped was carving out specific time for homework and making sure NOTHING interfered with it. For example, I had a friend who was unhappy in her living situation and would call a lot to hash it out. I told her I couldn’t take calls after 8 pm on weeknights and kept to that—I still had a landline then, but I just stopped answering the phone after that time.

      Getting a job in the field while you’re still in school seems ideal if it’s financially feasible to do so. Then when you graduate, you’ll have a leg up in applying even if the job is peripheral to the actual degreed work.

    3. reede*

      I’ll leave advice on what job to stick with to someone else, but I can talk way too much about time management! Full time + part time is doable, but you do have to be prepared for it.

      ~Accept up front that you’re not going to be doing a lot else other than school and work. You should still do stuff! See your friends, have some nights off, etc, but you’re going to have to say no to lots more than you usually would.

      ~Of course, that is balanced by: take time to care for your health. You should do this anyways, but it’s extra important when you feel like you don’t have time to. Getting sick or into a bad mental state is rough. Eat well, hydrate, sleep, get some activity even if it’s just walking around, don’t go too long without talking to another person, meditate if you’re into that.

      ~okay now actual time management. Realistically, after a day of work, you’re going to get max of 3 hrs of work out of yourself, but probably closer to 1-2 on average. Factor that into planning your schedule — if you need 4 hrs to work on an assignment, that’s 2 nights, not 1. On a similar note you’ll need to use your weekend time, but be realistic about how many hours that will actually be. Personally I assume I can do 4 hrs on a weekend day and plan for that.

      ~ymmv, but what worked best for me was having a consistent weekly schedule — certain evenings were for classes, certain evenings were for classwork, and certain evenings were for designated time off. (It’s a lot easier to avoid procrastination if you know you have a break coming up).

    4. CakeDonut*

      Hi hi! I recently finished an advanced degree while holding down a stressful full-time job (at a toxic workplace!). I don’t think your present role/area of work needs to shift in order for your learning to be better–it could help, or it could complicate what you’re learning if you’re brand new to the environment. ymmv in your discipline/line of work though!
      A few pointers for doing both at the same time:
      -if your grad program is a cohort model, consider teaming up with 2-3 buddies and share notes. This could be class notes, reading notes, etc. It’s hard to read 3 books/week (my program) and take all the notes for all the chapters. We split up our notes and shared them to cut down on work time outside of class–especially when it was for our use/not turned in. Check with the honor code if you have concerns.
      -recognize what YOU need to get things done with a time schedule that works for you (not a random person on the internet or what you think you ‘should’ do). My sweet spot ended up being 4:30am wake up to work out, 7-4 full time job, then home to do work from 5 to 8/9pm (bedtime). I’m not a morning person but this made me feel better about hitting my personal targets for better quality of life.
      -If I had to choose, I’d have rather done a job that paid for school than one where I had to take out loans. Loans are no joke, and can impact FUTURE jobs you take once your degree is done. (I wish I could care less about salary now but I can’t because of loans.)
      -Finally: once you get the syllabus, divide up what you need to do when. Plan out a “this week I do X” (readings, writings, parts of assignments) so you are super clear on the school’s expectations.

      Have fun!! I love learning. I’d be a student full time if I could.

  47. NoMoreOffice*

    I’m in the process of interviewing for a job I think I might really like, but I’m wondering if I’m seeing some red flags that I should be paying attention to. This is the first time I’ve job searched in 5 years.

    There was no phone screening at all, and my first interview was on Teams in front of a 4 person panel. The interview was on a Tuesday and by Thursday I have received an email stating I was a top candidate and requesting my references. Yay! I give them my references and then receive a background check request. Cool, let’s just keep plowing forward so I can get the hell out of my current job. The release form seemed really intense to me, but then again I’ve never had to sign a background check release, so maybe it was normal? Then yesterday I received an email stating they couldn’t verify my academic record and could I please send them a photograph of my High School Diploma. This is where I started wondering if I should be looking more closely at the red flag feelings I’m getting. I have been out of high school for almost 20 years and have never once been asked for proof of a high school degree. I don’t even know where my diploma is.

    This is not for a high security job, this is an office admin position in a nonprofit department that’s dealing with health statistics.

    Is this weird or am I just not used to stringent hiring practices?

    1. soontoberetired*

      Holy crap, I couldn’t even give someone a picture of my college diploma, let alone my High School one. And they shouldn’t care at this stage. Background checks weren’t that big of a deal when I joined the company I work for (1989), I don’t know what they do now, but I am pretty sure they don’t care about high school when you’ve been working over 10 years. I would say weird.

      1. starfox*

        I had foster kittens chew up my grad school diploma, lol. I would not be able to procure that one….

    2. Fluffy Fish*

      Asking for proof of high school education isn’t really a red flag – it’s usually a check box based on the requirements listed for the job or the check boxes on the background checklist.

      I work for a local gov and this is a thing. Silly but a thing.

      We don’t do phone screens, we always do panel interviews, depending on how many candidates we have and how well someone interviewed moving fast is not unusual.

      Academia can be weird. I would chalk up the weirdness to a quirk of applying for a job in academia (I’d also say the same if it was gov). If it was private sector? Then it’d be a different story.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I don’t see those things as a red flag either, except maybe about the background check company’s ability to verify things or how far back they think is necessary to go for a non-clearance type of job. If it would help, can you contact the hiring manager and ask about this process?

        FWIW I am currently in a federal gov’t job where there was no phone screen and my one interview was a Zoom panel with 5 interviewers. I didn’t have to provide references but did have to provide college/grad school transcripts as part of the application and then complete a background “public trust” screening, although that only went back 7 years.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I guess if it’s health statistics, it could be government-adjacent? In that case, maybe that’s why.

          I’ve had to provide college transcripts before, but the only time I’ve ever been asked to provide a high school one was for a law enforcement internship I applied for when I was an undergrad.

      2. starfox*

        I guess I’m SOL if anyone ever needs my high school diploma. I have no idea where it is. My old high school doesn’t even exist anymore so I couldn’t even get a new one….

    3. Warrior Princess Xena*

      No, this is weird. It’s office admin, not the DoD. They should not need your high school diploma if it’s been 20 years (if you’ve been to college since then it’s even weirder). Office admin should not require special education anyways unless it’s an odd specialty post. Do not ignore your gut.

    4. Chauncy Gardener*

      Nah. This is a totally normal background check process. I personally don’t see any red flags in it.

    5. anonymous73*

      Background checks can be crazy, and even though it’s an admin job, they may conduct them for everyone at the company in the same fashion. I don’t see any red flags here.

    6. Chaordic One*

      It’s a bit weird, not but a red flag. When I was in H.R. it would be something we would ask for if you didn’t have a college degree and if, for some reason, we weren’t able to reach the high school or the high school wouldn’t verify your graduation over the phone. And yeah, it is like a box that needs to be checked off.

      Sometimes schools close or are consolidated and it can be hard to track down the records. Other times the call might be answered by an idiot who doesn’t know how to verify the information or who might afraid of getting in trouble for violating your privacy. (I know, it should be considered public information, but I had this problem when I had to verify people’s education.)

  49. Prospect Gone Bad*

    I’m having trouble dealing with the people side of managing again. I don’t mind my managers holding me accountable, but I’m having a harder and harder time relating to reports or lower level people, some that don’t report to me. I feel like the stuff I get pushback on is so easy to fix and people spend more time and energy pushing back than just doing the thing. I used to get delegated such crappy assignments when I was in those jobs and now I feel like they’ve been made more cushy with time and technology, yet people in those roles are pushing back more. It’s seriously driving me to burnout and wanting to retire earlier than I should. It’s like if you work for a tax accountant and have to listen to people whine about how hard it is to file other peoples’ taxes because sometimes there are errors, and you’re constantly like “yeah, that’s why we’re here.”

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      I would really work on lowering your emotional engagement with these people. They’re going to whine, but you do not have to listen to it or internalise it. It’s always acceptable to say something like “sorry, I don’t have time to chat – email me if you have questions about the assignment, it’s due on X”.

      As for the pushback, I would try and look closely at why they’re pushing back. There’s a culture of “dues-paying” that’s rapidly disappearing from a lot of industries, and I don’t think comparing your situation when you first started to those in junior positions now is going to be very helpful for you here. If an assignment has to get done, you don’t have to entertain pushback on it. But I’d think about whether it actually has to get done, and whether there’s room for a different approach.

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        I have to think about this. The dues paying disappearing is a tough one precisely becuase what your hinting at. People act like certain tasks are only for “dues paying” when in reality they need to get done, plain and simple.

        1. Anonymous Koala*

          I do think the burden of empathy here is on you, not them. They’re never going to think “oh, this used to be so hard when PGB was in this position, I have it so much easier” – they’re always going to look for alternatives to boring work. And that’s not a bad thing – sometimes it leads to more innovation, and I think that’s something managers would do well to encourage. But you may have to tolerate a bit of the whining to get to the good stuff.

    2. Hen in a Windstorm*

      I’m not following how this leads to you being burned out… you’re burned out by other people wanting things you think they shouldn’t want?

      It sounds like you’ve lost perspective of what it’s like to be lower level staff. You sound similar to someone who has a lot of income being annoyed at people making less because “it’s so easy” to afford whatever it is you think they’re “whining” about. The word choices “cushy” and “whine” ares real giveaways that you look down on these people with contempt.

      What are you doing to fix this inability to relate to others? Have you tried to stop judging people and labeling everything with “should”? Maybe you “shouldn’t” be a people manager anymore, rather than retiring.

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        “The word choices “cushy” and “whine” ares real giveaways that you look down on these people with contempt.”

        Um, excuse me? You’re reading an awful lot into this or projecting or something. IDK. But that does not come from my comment at all. Could it be how 99% of people would take it, which is that I used to do the same stuff or more difficult versions of it, so I know exactly what the landmines are and how long things take and how hard stuff should be? Yes some people whine. I am confused how you think that is a reflection on me. I am asking for methods to cope with it, not trying to be gaslit into thinking it’s all in my head.

    3. dear liza dear liza*

      Alison linked yesterday to an article she was quoted in, “When does moaning about work go from cathartic to toxic?” It’s in the UK Vogue. The idea of ‘healthy complaining’ really resonated with me- take a look, you might find some affirmation too.

    4. Eyes Kiwami*

      I agree that thinking of your subordinates as “whining” about jobs that are “made more cushy” than when you had it sounds like you look down on them, and definitely sounds like you don’t relate to them any more.

      Everybody complains about things that make their job harder. For tax accountants, that is errors submitted by clients. For managers like you, that is tax accountants who push back instead of just doing what you say. One could say that your complaint about the people you manage bringing complaints to you is “yeah, that’s why you’re there–to manage their work and handle their complaints.”

      It sounds like you have lost empathy and respect for the roles beneath you–maybe learning more about how it works nowadays with technology changes will help you regain respect for the recent challenges in the role?

  50. EmKay*

    Hello, hi! Last I posted in an open thread, I had obtained an amazing position as an admin assistant at one of my 4 local universities after and eight month long interview process. Update: I had my mid-probationary period review yesterday, it went AMAZINGLY well, and I am beside myself with happiness :)))

  51. A. Ham*

    I need a gut-check and assurance that I am doing the right thing/not being dumb and some advice as I move forward.

    I hit the one year mark at my current job about a month ago, and it’s been a really rough year. At first (like in the first 4 months) it was a series of unfortunate events that made it so bad. Then as things calmed down and became more normal I realized I was still unhappy. I don’t know if I am still feeling lasting effects of the constant stress and anxiety of the early days, if the job is just not the job for me, or a combination of both, but I have started actively looking for something else.

    This morning I had a great phone interview for a role that I am quite interested in. They have already invited me for an in-person interview, which is promising, but obviously this process is far from over. Then, right when I got into work today, my boss and grand boss called me into a meeting. They told me I am one of just a handful of people that the company has deemed really important and they want to invest in me and keep me around. They offered me a sizable retention bonus. The stipulation is that I have to commit to staying for another year and if I leave before then I have to pay it back. They told me to think about it over the weekend. The conversation had the opposite of their desired effect… the thought of another full year here makes me a little queasy.

    I am flattered but I can’t in good conscience take this bonus. Money aside, I can’t look them in the eye and say I will stay for a year when I am actively job hunting. This job I’m interviewing for may not pan out, but maybe the next one will, or the next one. The worst-case scenario is I am still sitting here a year from now, no new job, and kicking myself that I didn’t take that money, but I am really really hoping I will be out before then.

    Ok, so what now? I say “no” and they know I’m a flight risk? They start treating me differently? And if I say no and they want to have a further conversation about it, what do I say? How honest should I be? I mean, they know I have had a rough year (through no fault of my own) so I can’t imagine they would be at all surprised that I am unhappy, but I am guessing they thought this recognition would make it better. Has anyone here turned down a retention bonus? how did it go and did anything change afterward?

    There’s a part of me that feels like I am looking a gift horse in the mouth, and that I am being dumb worrying about it. “Oh no, they really like me and they want to give me a bunch of money, what do I DOOOOOOO”. But I still feel like I HAVE to say no, and it’s giving me all sorts of anxiety.

    1. Fluffy Fish*

      Can you take the bonus and put it aside?

      If you move on within the year you can just pay it back. If you don’t then you can spend it in a year.

      1. Be kind, rewind*

        Yeah, this crossed my mind. I don’t think you can say “no” without causing suspicion and putting yourself in a bad place.

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          Most places take taxes out prior to paying bonuses. So the returned amount would be the same.

            1. Fluffy Fish*

              Off that stinks. Its always weird to me that employers who are already doing payroll would stick it to employees when it comes to bonuses.

              But you are right, there are absolutely companies that will so it should be taken into consideration.

        2. PollyQ*

          If you overpaid in taxes, you’d either get a higher refund at the end of the year, or have the amount you’d need to pay reduced. The money wouldn’t be gone forever.

    2. Peachtree*

      Can you take the bonus, stick into a high interest savings account, and keep it for the year? If you get to 12 months after receiving it without moving jobs, congrats, you just got $n+1%! If you get a new job, congrats! You get a new job and that $n can be sent back without any issue.

    3. Purple Cat*

      You don’t have to say no. “Accept” the money, put it in an interest-bearing account and do.not.touch.it.
      Then if you leave within a year you can pay back the $ with no issue. You don’t want to spend it and then not be able to pay it back.

      Look at it the other way, they aren’t “guaranteeing” you employment for another year. If so, there would be a contract and a commitment on their part. They’re just dangling another carrot in front of you, hoping you’ll stay.
      It does seem like they value you, your work, and your opinions, so can you speak to some of the things you’d like to change?

      1. CG*

        Yes! Along with the retention bonus, are there any changes coming to your position to make your job less stressful and more palatable? A title change or salary increase to show how valued you are and that they know how valuable you are? A bonus to reward the excellent work you’ve already done, not just a retention bribe to try to keep you on the hook for longer? If they value you and want to keep you around, there are several ways to do that, and they have chosen this one only.

        (As for what to say, I’m a snarkpuss and would personally say something like, “I appreciate being recognized for my work and would like to take you up on the retention bonus opportunity. I can’t promise that I won’t ever leave if the right opportunity falls into my lap, but I really like . Given that I have been identified as a highly valued contributor, can we talk as well about better reflecting the work I am doing and my value to the company in my title and salary?”)

    4. anonymous73*

      Take the bonus and don’t spend it, and tell them you’re staying. Then give it a chance. Maybe once they start investing in you things will change and you will enjoy your job. Don’t stop job hunting though – you always want to keep your options open. If you get another offer and still want to leave, just tell current company that you got an offer you just couldn’t pass up, or that you gave it a shot but you’re just not happy.

  52. WheresMyPen*

    I want to ask if it would be appropriate to ask for a raise at this time. I’ve been at my company for 2.5 years, started as an assistant then got promoted to editor after 6 months, practically the same week we went into lockdown in March 2020. Our team is really small, only 6 of us in house plus freelancers so I’ve always worked across all areas of the business and know it pretty much inside out. My assistant role wasn’t replaced so I did my new job and old responsibilities (plus a few I’d taken on from someone who left before the pandemic) up until a couple of weeks ago. In December I was told me and my manager were at risk of redundancy as our product (mainly Europe centric) was being discontinued due to commercial issues (Covid + Brexit). I was offered a similar role in a parallel department (North America) to avoid redundancy and they made a big deal of wanting to keep me, but sadly my manager is being made redundant, and she will leave at the end of May. I’m sad to lose my old role but excited about what new things I can accomplish in my new role.

    Thing is, after reading lots about negotiating a higher salary and not being afraid of asking for a raise, I would like to ask but there are a few conflicting aspects that are making me wonder if it’s appropriate.

    Arguments for asking: I’ve covered two roles for the last two years, meaning I can handle lots of varied tasks and know all areas of the production process. I’ve taken on responsibilities that were unrelated to my job title (eg using InDesign to lay out documents even though I was an editor and we have in house designers who would normally do this). I’ve looked up comparative salaries in other companies and found lots are paying a few thousand more than I currently earn. They made a lot of the fact they didn’t want to lose me when offering me my new role which shows they value me as an employee. I also have foreign language skills which mean I can take on more responsibilities in the new job and assist with other tasks that English-only speakers wouldn’t be able to do. Salaries are reviewed every June so I feel like now is the time I should ask or I’ll have to wait another year. As far as the business goes, I’m told sales are almost back to pre-pandemic levels so that side of the business isn’t struggling as much, but we are losing the sales from the Europe side but I don’t know much about the business end so don’t know how that affects our profits.

    Arguments against: My colleague is being made redundant so it could come across as tactless. I didn’t ask for a raise when my new position was being negotiated because of this reason. The extra work I did was because of the pandemic so they could argue I was being a team player.

    I’m also unsure of how to bring this up, if I do. I have known my current manager for the whole time I’ve been at this company but only just started reporting to her, and she is really friendly and approachable, but as we’re quite an informal working environment which hasn’t had formal performance reviews during the pandemic (so most of the time I’ve been there), I feel awkward asking her. If you think I’m justified in asking, how would you suggest bringing it up? I’m a very easy-going, do what I’m told and don’t make waves kind of person, so asking for more money is making me want to cringe inside out! Being British doesn’t help either!

    Thanks for any advice!

    1. After 33 years ...*

      You didn’t make your colleague redundant. They weren’t made redundant because you asked for a raise – that happened because of what they did / didn’t do, what they could / couldn’t offer to the business … if it’s not connected to your work, it shouldn’t factor into a request (or decision) to pay you more. Ideally, you’ll be paid what you’re worth, not on the basis of what someone else with a different set of responsibilities gets or doesn’t get.
      All the reasons you list for asking are good reasons. If better liaison with European clients is needed, and you have the language skills and are willing to take that on, that would be an additional point in your favour.
      If the policy is to review salaries in June, now is indeed the time to ask! It should not be seen as out of line, if you are following the normal procedure and timing.
      Best of luck!

  53. Lizabeth*

    Got a question on timesheets and paychecks. Since we’ve been acquired by another company I’ve been submitting a two week timesheet. I have always understood that it covers the week before and the week of submitting it to payroll. And you get paid the following week. Last month I got told “no, you submit the week of and the week after (which hasn’t been worked yet); they just noticed that I hadn’t been doing that all this time.

    Is this the norm? It goes against logic to me…but will do whatever they want.

    1. Purple Cat*

      What? They want you to submit your time sheet in advance? I assume you’re salary, so they really just want to cover “work, sick, vacation” in broad strokes? No matter what, this is weird. What’s the process if you expected to work the full week, but then took a sick day. How is that handled?

      1. Lizabeth*

        Not salary, so there’s that too. I don’t know about sick days – will have to ask them about that.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Submitting time you haven’t worked yet is WILDLY ODD. What happens if something comes up and you have to work over time? Is there a mechanism for updating your submitted time sheet? It sounds incredibly shady to me, even if it’s not their intention. I have no idea how you’d account for time that hasn’t happened yet with any degree of accuracy.

      1. Scott*

        I’ve been doing that with my time sheets every pay period for more than a decade. The time sheets have to go in to be submitted to “Big HR” so we can get paid on time. If something changes for the second week, we just submit a supplemental time sheet. Not so “Wildly Odd” to me.

        Yes, we’re all salaried/exempt.

      2. tamarak & fireweed*

        In my organization, for HR / payroll purposes time sheet approvals (semi-weekly) are due on the Monday after the two-week time reporting period. This normally means that employees have to submit their timesheet by the Friday before (last workday of the reporting period, if they aren’t hourly with weekend hours). But in my new unit, they have centralized the approvals and combine them with a check of all the grant codes that time is assigned to on the timesheet (which is why I submit a timesheet even though I’m salaried: to account for time-off taken, and to assign effort percentages to per-project charge codes). So they need a bit more time and timesheets are due mid-week. It felt VERY odd to me to report on time not yet worked, but hey. If I submit a timesheet and fall ill for the rest of the week, I’m sure there’s a mechanism to correct it.

    3. Haha Lala*

      Everywhere I’ve worked time sheets have spots for specific dates — like this time sheets May 13, the last one ended May 6, etc. If there are dates included there should be no confusion over which dates the timesheet covers.
      I’d push hard against submitting time sheets for time that has yet to be worked. That is way off base and I’d consider that highly unethical.

      Can you ask for the policy in writing, explicitly stating that you are supposed to submit time sheets for hours you have not worked (yet)?

    4. The New Wanderer*

      It goes against logic, but that’s similar to our process. We also submit time cards before the end of the 2 week period so the last few days are basically a guess. If there is a need to use sick leave or something else changes (like hours worked), we can amend our time cards after the fact to reflect what really happened. There’s an established process for amending and it’s used pretty frequently IME. Hopefully you have the same kind of process!

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      As someone who has supervised payroll for years, this is officially whacked. Why on earth would expect someone to submit a timesheet for a week that has yet to be worked? You could get accused of timesheet fraud, right? Since how would you know how many hours you are going to work? Are they expecting you to adjust it retroactively? Someone in your payroll department seriously doesn’t know what they’re doing, I’m sorry to say.

    6. anonymous73*

      Sounds weird but there is no norm. I’ve worked at places where I get paid immediately after the pay period ends, 2 weeks after the pay period ends, and a variation of any time period in between. But I’ve never submitted time for the future unless I’m taking vacation and won’t be there. That makes no logical sense. I would go back and make sure you’re understanding them correctly, because if you have to submit time based on categories and you submit your time for next week and then have to take off a few days for illness, then your timesheet is incorrect.

  54. Alice*

    I am working hybrid – 50% from home and 50% in the office. I’d prefer 100% WFH but while I’m looking for a new job it’s a requirement of my current job.
    My immediate problem: I am a lot more productive at home. In the office I am distracted by colleagues (sometimes just because of our open office setup, sometimes by colleagues who want to chat and connect in person – TBF I guess this socializing aka team-building is part of the reason we have to come in 50%). I also spend a lot of energy worrying about my unmasked colleagues’ COVID safety choices when we have to be in rooms together. At home I have a great workspace and can just plow ahead on my projects.
    My boss is not aware of my low in-office productivity; our work is measured in larger units so my monthly reports show that I’m very productive. It’s just that 75% of my productivity is coming from the 50% of my working time that I am working from home.
    My boss and grand boss have both made a point of telling me that they appreciate how I meet the 50% in the office requirement and have said that other team members don’t.
    Questions: is this a problem? If it is, how can I become more productive in the office?
    Thanks all

    1. EMP*

      I’d bring this up if you have a 1-on-1 with your boss since it seems like they’ve mentioned it. “Since we’ve been talking about being in the office, I’ve noticed I’m more productive when I WFH for (reasons in your letter)” and see how your boss reacts.

      My other question is, if you prefer WFH and your other team members are (apparently) ignoring the in-office requirement…could you also ignore that more than you do? I for one hate pushing rules like this but at the same time, if you’ve already got one foot out the door and some capital to burn, maybe you can swing more of a 25/75.

      1. Alice*

        Well, my boss knows that I would like to WFH full time or at least more. The official requirement is definitely not going to change for our department, and he has told me that he would prefer to require even more on site work. So, I feel like a conversation “I am more productive from home” has no chance of leading to improvements and would just invite closer supervision.
        In terms of ignoring the requirements – I hesitate to do that because I feel like I’ve used up all my political capital advocating for COVID safety measures in our workplace. There’s a VP from outside my reporting line who made a point of complaining to my VP about me. My VP told me he supports me and that he doesn’t think I’ve done anything unprofessional but I think it would be foolish to leave myself open to criticism. And I want to keep working in my specialty, so it may take a long time to find a new job I definitely don’t want to get pushed out.
        So that’s why I hesitate re these good ideas….
        Thanks though, it helps to talk it over!

    2. Purple Cat*

      I don’t think it’s a problem at all. Most people have varying degrees of productivity.
      For child-care reasons some days I leave early and other days I work late. I’m much more productive in the evening in the office then I am in the evenings at home. I wouldn’t proactively bring this up. If you get pushed to be in the office MORE than I might bring it up that it will negatively impact your productivity and are they okay with that.

    3. Alice*

      Oh good, announcement today that we have to increase in-office work even more because of “empathy and DEI.”

      1. Purple Cat*

        WHAT?!?
        Nothing says “empathy and DEI” like forcing employees to do something they don’t want.
        So many bees.
        Good luck on your job search.

      2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

        Sounds like it’s time to siphon off some of that increased productivity when WFH toward your job search rather than your current job…

        I am in a very similar boat myself, except they won’t even give us a reason for continuing to increase the in-office time beyond “because that’s what the rules for WFH were pre-pandemic” without citing any kind of task or process better done in the office or in-person. (I wouldn’t mind of they were making thoughtful choices about certain kinds of tasks best being accomplished from the office for clearly-articulated reasons, but it’s an entirely hours-based requirement. Technically, I could meet my on-site hours requirement by staying in the office overnight each night by myself working on my laptop, then going home and sleeping during regular work hours and attending staff meetings remotely from home.)

    4. Nancy*

      If the work is getting done and your bosses don’t have a problem with it than I don’t really see a problem? I am much more productive when I am working in the office than at home, but everything still gets done on time so no one really cares.

    5. WheresMyPen*

      But if a simple fix but I find I’m so much more productive if I use an app like Coffitivity with headphones in. That way you’re tuned out of all the outside chatter of your colleagues and they might take it as a cue to not bother you. If you still feel the need to be social you can take a quick tea/coffee break and have a chat, but then say ‘well I’d better get back to work’ and stick the headphones back on

    6. RagingADHD*

      In what respect did you think this might be a problem?

      Your boss is happy with your productivity at it’s current level. Your boss appreciates that you are following the requirement. Your boss (for whatever reason) prioritizes in-person interaction over maximum individual efficiency.

      No, this isn’t a problem–except that you don’t like it. And you’re already looking for another job anyway.

      1. allathian*

        I agree with you. I’m really not seeing any other problem except that the OP doesn’t want to go to the office at all.

        When my employer started asking people to go back to the office at least occasionally for employee training, I was at first very opposed to the idea. Now I’ve come to terms with it, and I can see the advantages of meeting people in person. We don’t have a set number of days we have to go in, it depends a lot on the job and the team. But going in about once a week has done wonders for my general job satisfaction, even if I’m an introvert. During the worst of the pandemic, I almost isolated myself at home, and until about June 2021, I didn’t see anyone in person indoors, except immediate family members.

        The key difference now is that I’m no longer worried about Covid. Sure, I don’t particularly want to catch it, but so many of my friends and coworkers have had it in spite of taking all the recommended precautions that I’m personally just so over it. I’m not wearing masks anywhere except where they’re still required, such as the doctor’s office, or if I’m seeing someone who’s still really careful, I’ll wear a mask for their comfort and safety. But other than that, I’m living pretty much as I did before the pandemic, except that I’m not going into the office every day.

        When my employer dropped the masking requirement at the office, the number of employees who were willing to go in shot up to the point that now there’s actually some point in going in to network and collaborate.

  55. ciel*

    I am the lead of a shrinking team; my last report, X, is leaving today for a better opportunity. That’s a problem all by itself, but here’s what I need a gut-check about. Yesterday, X sent an email to the CEO of our company, copying me and our boss, explaining that he was moving on to another company, but wanted to “bring it to CEO’s attention” that I am a stellar employee. He went on to cite many statistics about my work over the past year, in spite of our staffing issues, and said I’d been a great mentor and always did excellent work. This was all fine, I guess, but he ended it by saying: “Please accept this email as my recommendation that Ciel merits a raise in pay.”

    I read this email and just got all hot and embarrassed. I’ve worked for Company for over 20 years, have a reputation for doing good work, and in fact was just promoted and given a substantial pay bump. X is 26 years old and has worked for Company for 13 months. He has no standing to make a recommendation to the CEO about anything! I’m honestly not sure what he was thinking. The CEO is kind of a prickly guy who isn’t exactly…open to ideas that are not his own, let’s say.

    (He also emailed a bunch of our internal clients about his departure and included the line, “Please be extra kind and patient with Ciel as she’s going to be all alone now!” which I found very patronizing. He also keeps apologizing for leaving, saying how bad he feels, and I’ve found it kind of exhausting to keep reassuring him that I don’t hate him, in the midst of being stressed out about being ALL ALONE.)

    Anyway. I replied to X’s email, to him alone, saying, Thanks for your kind words. Then I forwarded it to my boss and said, “I find this mortifying, please let CEO know I had nothing to do with it.” I haven’t heard from anyone about it so I’m hoping it just gets forgotten, but I’m wondering if I should let X know that while the email re: my good works was fine to send to CEO, it wasn’t really appropriate to mention my pay. Or maybe I’m overreacting because of the aforementioned stress.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      That’s not kinda patronizing, that’s incredibly patronizing and tone deaf. All of it. Honestly, can you get rid of him faster? The mess he’s making while he’s still there can’t be worth the work he’s doing. NONE of the emails he’s sending are appropriate. The anxiety is not your problem and he needs to deal with it himself – not rely on you to sooth him.

    2. Panda (she/her)*

      I wouldn’t worry too much about this reflecting on you! It is definitely far outside office norms, but it sounds like you are a solid performer and that asking a junior employee to make this recommendation to the CEO would be highly out of character for you – which means people are much more likely to think that your employee has bad judgement!
      The other consideration is that he perhaps didn’t literally mean to tell the CEO to give you a raise, but rather meant is as a weird way of phrasing a compliment – like I might say “John is amazing, he totally deserves a raise!”. The way your employee phrased it is weird, but who knows…sometimes people say weird stuff.
      Either way, I don’t think mortification is necessary! But I say that you would be well within your rights to tell your employee to cut it our with the fishing for reassurance – he is an adult and needs to manage his own emotions around this, rather than constantly coming to you for reassurance that you don’t hate him for leaving.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      It would be a great kindness to X (and X’s future managers!) to let him know that the parts of the email mentioning your good work were fine and the parts related to pay were not. Also point out that the “Please be extra kind and patient with Ciel as she’s going to be all alone now!” line also isn’t appropriate to email to coworkers.

    4. Haha Lala*

      I think you responded to that really well!
      You’re definitely in a place to tell X that what he said to the CEO is out of line, and may hurt his chance of getting a good recommendation in the future– and that you don’t need him speaking for you about pay. And also tell him that the email to internal clients was in poor taste and patronizing.

      But if I was on the receiving end of either email, that would reflect badly on X, not on you, so no need to worry about that.

      1. ciel*

        Update! CEO just responded to the email and said, “We are all aware of Ciel’s good work but your email is appreciated. [Boss] and I will have a discussion about your suggestion. Best wishes to you.”

        So now I am a) excited about the prospect that this weird mis-step may actually turn into a raise; b) pretty much convinced CEO is just blowing smoke; c) annoyed that X will feel that his original email was validated.

        Whatever. X is about to show up to turn in his laptop and I’m going to wave to him across the parking lot (he also has COVID so can’t actually come in the building) and be done with the whole thing.

  56. ND and awkward*

    I feel a very low-stakes dilemma around work-life balance while hybrid working. My job is requiring us to come in 20% of the time, averaged across 2 weeks. My personal energy levels and dog-owning responsibilities make it easiest for me to go in for two mornings a week at the moment.

    My dilemma is that I’m much more productive in the office, but my home life is easier not going in. The separation between work and home makes my focus a lot better, and the casual work-related conversation is genuinely helpful when other people are in (which most are on one of my chosen days). But before when I only worked 20% from home I would crash and sleep for 12+ hours about once a fortnight, and it’s so much easier to manage household chores with more time at home. Though I can’t tell how much of my plummetting productivity is “recovering” from the mornings I do go in and how much is my energy being drained by all the home-related distractions swirling around my brain.

    How much do I “owe” my employer to maximise productivity versus making my own life easier? Bearing in mind that “maximise productivity” here is more like “actually work the entire day” than “turn the machine from 10 to 11”.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I also tend to have this problem which is why I go in most of the time to work (plus my job just isn’t that easy to do from home.) I think you need to assess what you’re producing and decide if you feel like the loss of productivity is large enough to make you want to go in. For me it has been, but it might not be for you. I also think a lot about how my lack of productivity harms others on my team.

      1. ND and awkward*

        My role is a bit awkward at the moment in that outside of quick same-day requests I only have a number of low-priority, long-term projects that I could work on, but no one is really asking for them. I also have very little to do with the rest of my team’s function, or anyone else’s in the company. I’m almost biding time until I get some planned training that’ll change the nature of my role slightly.

    2. Spearmint*

      I’d focus on your actual output and not worry about how long or how hard you’re working to produce it. How does your boss feel about your work? Are they happy with your productivity? Are you consistently meeting deadlines? Are you accomplishing enough to be competitive for the next step in your career?

      1. Spearmint*

        Posted too early.

        If the answer to any of those questions is negative, then you may want to focus more on productivity. If they’re all positive, though, then I think it’s fine to focus more on your own life.

        1. ND and awkward*

          Thanks, that’s a good way to frame it. My boss is happy, I’ve not missed any deadlines that mattered (i.e. only self-imposed ones), my next career step is to do some training courses that have been approved but not yet booked, so there’s not really any pressure to “produce” there.

          I’m just not doing well in any aspect of life, though, so generally feel like I’m not doing enough. But maybe this is a good opportunity to “take it easy” and get my sh-t together outside of work.

  57. Bunny Girl*

    I’m a little frustrated about how some time off has been handled and I’m wondering if I need to make note of it somewhere or not.

    I have been having a lot of health problems this year. I had one surgery, and then I have a second one at the end of this month, and then I go in next month to see if I have to have a third. I am relatively young and handling everything well myself.

    I found out the date for my 2nd one two months ago and immediately asked for a week of time off and then asked to work from home the second week because I have a condition that could delay my recovery a bit. When I first asked for this, everything was totally fine and both my supervisor and boss told me that “should all be fine.” Well I’ve been trying to get confirmation in writing about my work from home week for about 6 weeks and I kept getting brushed off. Then we had two people quit last week and when I emailed my supervisor to try to confirm this again because my surgery is coming up, she told me this whole thing was happening at a bad time. I told her that quite frankly I had asked for this time off well in advance and I was asking to work from home, not just leave all together. She told me to get a doctors note and they would try to accommodate me. Well I got one but magically I haven’t needed one in the last 2 months, just now that my leave is “at a bad time.” Should I say anything or escalate this?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Is your organization large enough for you to have FML coverage? It’a very normal to need a doctors confirmation for FML, but the constant moving of the goal post sounds super soul sucking.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I don’t qualify because I haven’t been here a year yet. I have no problem asking for a doctor’s note but my frustration is more being told that my surgeries were inconvenient and that I didn’t need a doctor’s note for weeks and then suddenly I did. And it was to ask for WFH, which I already do half the week anyway.

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          I think whether you say something or not (to address your question) has to do with how much political capital you have, how much you want to spend it on this, and if you have already gotten what you wanted. If your boss is getting pressure from above, they maybe tapping into the “get it in writing” situation to protect themselves and their department (Why hasn’t your dept. done X? Well, Bunny Girl has been out and I have the paperwork to back that up.) A lot of this comes down to how much you trust your boss and if there’s more you want that you haven’t gotten- if you trust your boss and you got what you wanted by jumping through one more hoop, I would rant at home and let it go at work.

          1. Bunny Girl*

            Thank you. That’s kind of where I was leaning. I am not afraid for my job because I work for a state agency and we have to murder someone in front of 30 witnesses and on video tape to get fired. I just thought her telling me that my timing (which I have no control over) was poor was super inappropriate and I didn’t appreciate it. My supervisor is actually the one causing the problems. My boss above her has been very understanding and a lot better about the whole thing.

  58. Filosofickle*

    How do you approach self-assessments at work?

    Every company / team is a little different and the answer is probably on a spectrum of “be honest enough to show self-awareness but not so honest you sandbag yourself and plant doubts”. I work in a relatively safe place but I’m pretty new here, have received some critical feedback lately, and know things like this can be weaponized. Personally, I tend to focus far more on negatives so I am thinking I need to tilt more positive than I naturally would to reach a realistic middle ground plus probably need to pick one or two things to focus on so I don’t just create a laundry list. What else can you suggest? Thanks!

    1. Another_scientist*

      Most of the self assessment should list achievements from the year, i.e. be positive if at all appropriate. This is not the moment to be overly critical, and especially not get into personal characteristics. If you already have gotten some critical feedback, pick the two or three things that are most relevant to the job, and where you can imagine a tangible way to address the criticism. The way you package those for the performance review is not to say I am bad at X, but I will do Y to improve X. This could be taking a class to learn a skill, adopting a system, connecting with an expert colleague etc.

  59. Not a Mrs*

    The gendered marker is the issue, because they only use it with the women in our office, i.e. the emails are “Dear Matt, Dear Chris, Dear Mrs. Smith”. I’m not personally opposed to the formality or being called Ms., but it’s the automatic assumption that every woman in the office is only the property of a man that I want to stop.

    1. WheresMyPen*

      I’ve had a similar and slightly strange version of this issue, in that I usually sign my emails off with my first name, or my signature which is just First Name Last Name with no title, but often outsiders will reply with Dear Mr Last Name when I’m actually a woman. I have an unusual name that can be male or female though usually female I think. Anyway, my solution has been to add my pronouns into my signature, though often people don’t notice!

      But regarding your issue, maybe just a lighthearted ‘please feel free to call me Alison, Mrs Smith reminds me of my mother!’ Or something like that, to make it clear you’d prefer first names?

      1. WheresMyPen*

        And I missed the part about the Mrs specifically being an issue, rather than Ms. that’s a tricky one, as even if your email signature used Ms, a lot of people just wouldn’t notice. The automatic assumption is annoying, but unless you’re happy to point it out specifically, I think it’s going to take a long time and a culture change before a lot of people stop doing that

  60. Panda (she/her)*

    I have some good news and a question for a Friday! I have been feeling really burnt out lately, and realized (partly through therapy) that my workaholic boss is really contributing to my unhappiness and stress. I have debated on whether to stay and try to change the conditions of my job (I love what I do and who I work with…except my boss) or move on to another organization, and in the meantime started applying to jobs. Well I had interviews for two awesome jobs this week, and I am crossing my fingers I get offers from both of them (one seems really likely, the other I think I have a good shot). Now I am just dreading having the “I quit” conversation with my boss, because she is NOT going to take it well, and is going to blame me for not trying to fix the culture on our team – in her view, I’m a manager and therefore should be trying to fix these problems instead of getting out.

    Now for my question: to what extent are managers expected to help fix culture problems rather than just leaving? Is there any expectation at all? Is there only an expectation to fix problems within my control? My sense of what are reasonable expectations has been skewed so much from working for a workaholic who owns the company.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Some types of culture problems you can have a hand in fixing as a manager, but you can’t do any of it without support from above you in your organization and it doesn’t sound like you have that.

    2. Fluffy Fish*

      If I’m reading this correctly the problem is your boss. You cannot fix your boss. Ergo you cannot fix the culture.

      In general if you manage a team and the culture problems are related to your team – theres a lot of complaining or unequal workloads so on so forth, then yes – that is in your control as a manager and yes you should be fixing it.

      If the problems that are created are external to you and your team, then generally you cannot fix it and it’s not your responsibility. A terrible owner – not your circus.

      1. Panda (she/her)*

        My main issue is that my boss works 80-100 hours a week and criticizes anyone who doesn’t work regular overtime (like me – I work about 5-10 hours of overtime per week and she pressures me to work more). She made me feel guilty about taking time off when I had COVID (even though I didn’t actually take any full days off – I worked at least a couple of hours every day since I was a key person on several projects that had deadlines coming up). My team has been underresourced for the last 6 years and my boss keeps saying yes to more projects. So yeah….a lot of this is not within my control.

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          There you go.

          And don’t feel guilty about leaving your team in the lurch. Ultimately we all need to look out for ourselves. If they are unhappy they have just as much agency to leave as you do.

          Move on in peace – youre not in the wrong here.

        2. Ama*

          Yeah, you’re not going to be able to fix that — someone above your boss would have to tell her to stop with the overtime comments and then also make sure she actually did stop to fix it. You can’t do that. If you get an exit interview you could make some general comments about the department taking on more work than is possible with the current staff and staff feeling pressured to work more overtime than you would prefer (you say “the department” so you have plausible deniability that you didn’t accuse your boss directly of anything), but you don’t have to if you think it might mess up future references.

        3. Brin*

          Your boss has a problem that you cannot change. You may be able to get her to see a different perspective, but her behavior is causing the issue.

          I manage a team. A very important part of my job is to ensure everyone has a reasonable workload. There must be a significant business reason for me to agree to take on extra or last-minute projects (and it truly needs to be warranted, I do not accept someone else’s poor planning alone as my or my team’s emergency). If that happens, I make myself responsible for as much of the project as I can, and if I have to pass any of the extra work onto my team, I push back other deadlines they are working towards or take something else off their plates. If they have to work overtime, which is rare, I make sure they get another day off as compensation. Of course, I could not do this if my own boss was not also supportive of good work-life balance. Yes, all managers have some influence, but they are just one person in charge of one team or area of the business. You can’t drive the entire culture of your company, especially when your manager is modeling unhealthy behavior.

          There is a difference between showing the value of your department by occasionally taking on extra work, and becoming a doormat for other departments or a dumping ground for other people’s fires. There is no glory in burning out your staff or giving up your own health/social life for work. Your boss does not understand this, therefore she’s going to create a culture of overwork and lose good people.

          Don’t blame yourself or feel you need to stay and suffer for a person who won’t change.

    3. Purple Cat*

      You can only fix culture on the team “below” you and in some cases “at” your level, but you can’t change what’s happening top-down. You can hire the right people and set the right standards for “your team”. You can set a good example and influence your “peers”, but that’s it.

      1. Gnome*

        Agreed. A lot of times though, you have very little influence at the peer level even

    4. Irish Teacher*

      In addition to what everybody has said, you can leave for any reason. Even if you decided you didn’t like the colour the walls were painted and decided to leave because of that, that would be your choice. You have no obligation to stay and change/fix anything (there may be some exceptions to this, in certain industries, but in general, no). You are hired to do a job. You are paid for each day you do the job. Yes, if you really like a company, you may feel loyalty to them and want to do your best for them, but there is certainly no obligation to stay to “fix” a problem. After all, leaving because your spouse got a job elsewhere or because you had a child and wanted to be a stay at home parent or because you won the lottery would all be perfectly acceptable too.

      Congrats on your opportunities, by the way and I really hope you get a great offer.

      1. Panda (she/her)*

        This really helps, thank you! I have long suffered from a misplaced sense of loyalty to this job – even as an junior person on the team I refused to talk to recruiters because I thought I was being disloyal by even considering leaving. I just found out this afternoon that another company is going to send me an offer early next week, so it looks like I may finally be out of here!

        1. Anecdata*

          If it helps — you aren’t obligated to tell your boss you’re leaving because of the workload, especially if you think they won’t handle it well. You can just go with the “I wasn’t planning to leave but an opportunity that was just too good to pass up came along” bland exit interview strategy if you want.

          Because you’re in a leadership role, I think it would be a really good thing if you felt comfortable saying something about the work life balance – sometimes hearing it from leavers is the only way it gets though – but you’re not /obligated/ to, especially if you think they might sabotage your new offer, etc.

          Re the broader question — the more senior leadership position you have, the more responsibility you have to help the company on a strategic and long term level, and sometimes this /can/ mean attempting to change a culture above you – but usually this means things like going to your boss’s boss if there are serious problems, or flagging risks to the company that a more junior person could decide are none-of-their-business (eg. VP who reports to SVP and are in a relationship things), or having productive-but-uncomfortable conversations (“boss, you send emails at 2am all the time and it makes the team feel like they have to respond. Can we {solution, solution}?”). But the flipside is, your leadership earns that candor and risk-taking by responding well — not that you have to stay indefinitely when they’ve already demonstrated they’re not going to change!

  61. DivineMissL*

    Hi all! I’ve been looking forward to this all week. I have a good problem to have, but wanted to run it by all of you.
    I have a good job that has good benefits but is not challenging. I have been offered a good job that would be challenging and would pay more, but I feel kind of “meh” about taking it – no particular reason, just in my gut feel no enthusiasm about it. We’re in negotiations now, they probably want an answer by Monday. Meanwhile, I have an interview next week for a job that I am excited about, but it’s just an interview – no guarantee. Then, I have an interview for a job that potentially could LEAD to a job that would be a stretch for me but is extremely exciting. All of this is making me more “meh” about the one I’ve been offered. But if I turn it down and the others don’t work out, I may regret it. So, the question is, do I trust my gut?

    2. Minimal Pear*

      Yeah, trust your gut on this one. In my experience when I took a job that I started out feeling “meh” about, my “meh” feeling quickly progressed to “seething hatred” and then “I got laid off for discriminatory reasons”.

    3. Person from the Resume*

      Since you already have a good job that you’re not in a rush to leave you should trust your gut here. I wouldn’t always say that, but it sounds like you’re in a okay position if the next two potential jobs fall through. You’d just keep working where you now and keep looking.

    5. Irish Teacher*

      I would. You have a job and it doesn’t sound like it’s a place you need to get out of right now! It sounds like you are just looking for better opportunities and therefore, you can afford to be fussy. Worst case scenario, you have to stay where you are for a little while longer, while you continue looking for better opportunties and…it doesn’t sound like that would be the worst thing in the world.

      1. DivineMissL*

        Thank you all who responded. I appreciate the support! It’s hard to turn down the extra money at my age to hope something better comes along later (bird in the hand and all that) but my gut is telling me “no”. I just don’t know how to explain to the employer that it all sounds great but I have to listen to my instincts. After going through 4 interviews. With no real reason to say “no”, just a feeling.

        1. WheresMyPen*

          You don’t have to tell them it’s just because of ‘a feeling’. If you google ‘how to turn down a job offer’ there are tons of results and stock answers you could use, even something vague like ‘due to a change in circumstances I no longer feel that accepting this role is the right decision for me’. It doesn’t even have to be strictly true as long as you’re polite about it and show gratitude for their offer, to keep the bridges unburnt.

        2. linger*

          Try turning that question on its head: what would make you excited about a job that is lacking in this offer? Maybe that could clarify your feelings for yourself, or generate some more palatable reasons to give the employer.

  62. Taco Bell Job Fair*

    I have a weird problem. I apply for jobs and I get calls and emails back, but they want me to work at a location I have not applied for. It’s the same company just a different and usually far away location. Is there anyway I can try to request something like “location X only”?

    1. CTT*

      Have you been specifying the location in your cover letter? I’m wondering if there are multiple positions in multiple locations and they’re assuming you’re up for any of them.

      1. Taco Bell Job Fair*

        The ad will say “hiring for postilion in city X.” I reply to the ad. Then I get a message or even worse go to an interview and get told “we are full at city X, but we have plenty of positions at city Y.” How can I say nicely I applied to the ad in city X because I want to work in city X?

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          So, I think it’s perfectly fine to say, “Thank you so much for your consideration, but I’m afraid that I can’t work at City Y.”

          Or you can say, “Unfortunately, at this time, I’m really only interested in City X. Does it make sense to continue this conversation?”

          They’re not assuming you can work at City Y, they are saying, “Oh, look, here’s a person who applied for City X and they are well qualified, but we’re full at the City X, I wonder if they’d be interested in interviewing at City Y.” They’re asking you a question, there’s nothing wrong with answering it. However, having them spring this at the interview does feel super annoying. Not sure how to preempt that though.

          1. WheresMyPen*

            Maybe when getting the invite to the interview, asking ‘can I please confirm that the position I’m interviewing for is in location X’ would do it, as long as they’re not going to manipulate you into interviewing hoping that you’ll change your mind.

  63. Anecdata*

    I’m an early-mid career (seniorish IC), in the tech-adjacent world (UXR if you’re curious) at a large company

    I’ve recently found myself pulled into several projects working directly with our senior leadership (ie CTO and his direct reports) so I’m by far the most junior person there and also definitely the only woman.

    I’m struggling to calibrate how “helpful” I should be in these projects with stuff that’s not my area of expertise… Like if seniorLeader asks for notes, or someone to find a meeting time that works on all calendars, and no one else volunteers, do I do it?

    On one hand, I want to be cognizant of not falling into the trap of women getting busy with all the less valued core stuff, and I want to be primarily known for my great work in my specialty area – on the other hand, it kind of makes sense for the most junior person to do this, right?

    There are no female senior leaders, or male junior team members on these projects, that I can calibrate against.

    Any advice?

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Don’t do it. Focus on tasks that are visible and relevant to project goals. Scheduling ain’t it. Else you will find yourself stuck always scheduling and printing agendas etc. If they ask you to schedule then fine do it. But don’t volunteer for it. Especially for note taking, that always turns out poorly. Are women more likely note takers than men? I know multiple women who had to stop taking personal notes in meetings because it kept getting turned into and now susan will send us meeting notes, which meant they couldn’t take the notes they wanted that were focused on their projects only.

    3. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      Don’t. These senior leaders should have an EA who takes on calendar schedules and meeting minutes. It shouldn’t be you even if you are the most junior.

    4. PollyQ*

      [insert General Ackbar GIF] It’s a trap! Don’t do it. “I want to be primarily known for my great work in this area” is exactly the thinking that should guide you.

    5. Purple Cat*

      Gah, I read a great article yesterday and now of course I can’t find it.
      But basically how woman take on all of this additional work that doesn’t advance the mission of the company even though it helps the company and then get dinged when it comes time for promotion and advance for not…. advancing the mission of the company. The specific example in this story was a legal partner who ran the summer intern program and then didn’t book enough billable hours.

      1. Anecdata*

        Thanks everyone for the reality check!

        Yeah, I know this is a particular trap for women but somehow I convinced myself it’s different because I actually am way junior in this scenario… Like, I shouldn’t do this stuff for a male peer, but of course I should do it for my boss’s boss’s boss

        But you all are right, there’s an EA and a program manager involved and I’m going to leave this to them (but sometimes seniorLeaders(tm) forget to copy them into requests and that’s when I get tripped up).

        There was a request for a meeting this morning that no one’s taken care of yet and every time I think about doing it, I read your comments!

        1. Hillary*

          Picture the most mediocre techbro you know. Would he volunteer? No? then don’t. ;-) No cleaning, no note taking, and no baked goods.

          Signed, the only woman in the room for the last ten years. Sigh.

        2. PollyQ*

          It isn’t about who’s the most junior, it’s about whose job it is, and the answer to that is: Not yours.

  64. Anon for this*

    This may be too medical for this thread. Does anyone have success stories about the positive impact of ADHD treatment on your work and career? Or cautionary tales? Things that changed unexpectedly? Things that unexpectedly stayed the same?

    Asking because I have an appointment with an ADHD specialist this afternoon. It was a complex work project (plus about 25 years of evidence) that finally spurred me to seek diagnosis. At risk of sounding full of myself, I have gotten by because the work product is always good, and I can do in one or two frantic days what others reasonably, responsibly work for a week or more. But I am tired of working like this, and this “method” isn’t going to work for the long-term projects I am now being assigned.

    1. Minimal Pear*

      I was dxed in college, but I definitely found it helped a lot. I was really struggling my first year and failed one class, dropped another, needed extensions for others, etc etc. While I still had those problems throughout the rest of college, and my adhd can be an issue at work, it all feels so much more manageable. Some of that is life experience but some is ABSOLUTELY the meds. (Extended release is the way to go imo.) It’s easier to do scary things, it’s easier to keep my brain from weaseling off into a corner, it’s easier to remember that random thing on my to-do list, etc etc.

      1. Anon for this*

        Thank you! I would also like it to be easier to do the scary things and the random things. So many daily tasks (including driving) feel extremely taxing because of the amount of concentration I feel I need to harness to perform well. My attention feels like a boulder that is incredibly difficult to shift at first, then very hard to stop once it gets going.

        1. Minimal Pear*

          Like I said, I do think some of what helped is just getting more life experience. But I feel like I was in a better position to improve on those things because I was on adhd meds and that was keeping me from being as stressed out and overwhelmed in other areas. And oof, I know what you mean! I think my attention works a little differently most of the time, but sometimes it’s definitely like that.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Yes!

      Before treated/medicated: I was struggling as a freelancer to find clients who could pay (and get them to actually pay me), as well as struggling with all the back office details that reflected all my weaknesses. Had a very hard time deciding on the right niche/path. Had a very hard time following through on long-term projects.

      After: Found a lucrative niche and a long-term steady clientele that plays to my strengths. Tripled my hourly rate. More than tripled my income by being able to do far more billable hours (instead of frittering away time on endless unproductive nonbillables).

      I still get caught sometimes in the procrastination/urgency loop, but the new work structure helps break things down into smaller deliverables and milestones. I also learned how important it is to have a structure and a team, because I will follow through on things I promise to other people but not on things I promise myself.

      1. Anon for this*

        Thank you for sharing your experience! I’m glad to hear that treatment worked so well and I hope to see similar results.

    3. Gnome*

      I know a few folks who are only able to do what they do because of ADHD medication and who spoke to me openly and honestly about it. I am unmedicated, but that’s because it works for me (mostly).

    4. ADHD prof*

      Pre-diagnosis, when I was in grad school, I really struggled. Executive functioning? Not great. Procrastination? Always. Getting and staying organized? Not great.

      Once I graduated and got a job as a professor, I realized that things needed to change if I was going to be successful. I sought, and received, a diagnosis of ADHD, as well as an Adderall prescription.

      The difference has been night and day. I stay on top of my tasks much better. I procrastinate much, much less. I am far more organized. I am better at planning ahead and executing those plans. I can stay focused when I need to, but the meds also help mitigate the hyper-focus that sometimes took over.

      Am I still forgetful? Yes. But the meds help me remember to at least write things down, and my improved organization helps me not lose the papers on which I’ve written the important things I need to remember.

      I don’t regret seeking treatment for a second. Meds aren’t always the right choice for everyone, especially not stimulant meds, but therapy is also very helpful. Do what feels right and what works best for you.

    5. cubone*

      I am going through this right now. Just diagnosed about a month ago and working with an ADHD coach (really a therapist but focusing specifically on strategies for the executive functioning challenges). I will likely try meds but my psychiatrist appointment got delayed so not sure yet.

      I’ve … never felt ANYTHING like how good and validating my experience with coaching feels so far. It’s not like suddenly everything is fine and I have no issues, but I feel like I don’t have to explain myself the same way. It’s really hard to put into words because ultimately, what we DO in session is go through my tasks and calendar and chunk pieces to do and how long it’ll take etc. On one hand, I’m like…. isn’t this what I’ve been trying to do all along???? And the answer is yes, but I was trying to do it with strategies and advice and motivators that are geared towards people with a completely different brain than me. Now I’m getting strategies and advice for MY brain and the difference is overwhelming (in a good way).

      I’ve definitely gotten more “done” with my coach’s help but I don’t even think the productivity output is the real win here. It’s that I’m not spinning on a hamster wheel making myself feel bad every day for not being “good enough”.

  65. Chidi has a stomach ache*

    One of the letters this week got me thinking: I really struggle with “quantifying” my achievements on my resume. I’m in education, so I feel like the numbers I can come up with (ex: # of students) are fluff and don’t really speak to achievements, per se. Saying I taught 80 students is kind of the bare minimum to earn my paycheck, you know? And I don’t know how to quantify “impact,” either — I don’t get to see all of my course evaluations, only my dept chair does. What resources do you use to figure achievements when you don’t feel like you’ve made any?

    1. The Lion's Roar*

      This might help: https://www.askamanager.org/2013/06/how-to-list-accomplishments-on-your-resume-when-your-job-doesnt-have-easy-measures.html

      I was really helped by the advice there about focusing on the difference between what I did in the role and what someone mediocre might do. Instead of focusing on my basic job duties, I tried to focus on ways I’d stepped up, projects or initiatives I’d been tapped for, or areas where I was the point person (even if it was informal).

      1. Camelid coordinator*

        I was thinking something similar, that you should highlight what is innovative about your teaching. “Developed community-based llama curriculum involving 3 local organizations” or such. Good luck!

    2. Mockingjay*

      Think accomplishments rather than metrics. “Adapted standard classroom curriculum for remote learning.” “Headed department committee to improve student retention; district implemented X and Y recommendations.”

      Sometimes we think of metrics as “sales” numbers, but most jobs can’t be quantified that way. Accomplishments can tell how you did something, which can be more valuable to an employer: planned, budgeted, team collaboration…these elements are common to many jobs.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yes, all of this. “Created and implemented new curriculum on topics X and Y developed to match national standards A and B” or maybe (I don’t teach) “Co-taught A and saw improvements in B and C.”

        Another thing to remember, the goal of the resume is to get the interview. So, another thing to think about his how can you frame your work in such a way that someone might think, “That sounds interesting. I want to ask about that.”

        For years, I’ve had on my resume, “Inventoried and processed controversial political and topical archival collections and developed access policies to these materials.” AKA: I worked with a ton of far right and pornographic collections as an archivist, and people get super curious about it.

  66. ArchAnon*

    Hi AAM Commentariat!

    Has anyone reading successfully transitioned out of the field of architecture into another field or know someone who has? What else is out there and how did it go for you?

    I’m a fully licensed architect in the middle of my career considering a switch. I do feel that I am really good at what I do, and I hesitate to leave without knowing exactly where I can successfully transition to from here. Reasons to stay include my licensure, freedom to design, enjoying many aspects of project management, my days are always varied and I love seeing the physical fruits of my labor. Reasons to leave include draining & entitled developer clients, higher earning opportunities in other fields, a consistently high/unachievable workload, and the potential of bringing home money in a way that involves less stress/responsibility. My work/life balance is good at my current position but is not necessarily characteristic of most architecture roles.

    Of course I’m doing my own legwork here to explore options, but any anecdotal evidence is a welcome supplement, even if your advice is to stay put. Thanks!

    1. Llellayena*

      Another licensed architect here. A couple of colleagues have moved on to other positions outside an architecture firm. One went to the campus design department (approving/reviewing upcoming designs of campus buildings) of a local college, others have actually switched sides and are working for developers. Also if you like digging through code, towns/counties/states could probably use more architects as code reviewers. I would love if some of the local code reviewers actually knew what they were looking at in a site inspection…

    2. anonanon*

      The world is full of recovering architects. I keep coming across them in city planning/urban design (where they’re not specifically working as architects but that background makes them valuable), all kinds of design, economic development (again, architectural background a plus but not actively in use). I think it’s like a law degree–I’m also surrounded by people with law degrees who are not practicing law. Sorry this isn’t super specific, but just wanted to say your tribe is out there!

    3. Lebkin*

      I moved from the architecture side to the manufacturer side, and it’s been a successfully transition. Knowing what goings into a material selection is valuable when trying to sell to architects and clients. It is more sales and customer service work, but not so far away that I started from scratch.

      In my particular area (decorative mouldings and carvings), I even get to do some design work. I work with customers to help select and use our products. Customers are homeowners, millwork dealers, architects, interior designers, and builders. It’s been a satisfying career shift.

  67. Uncomfortable, mostly*

    Filed a harassment claim with my company’s ethicsline. A C-suite (woman) greeted me by cupping my chest (as a joke?????) in front of 3 other coworkers.

    HR made me and the 2 coworkers who I know also reported it (thank you to them! they are lovely people and I appreciated the support) sign an NDA before talking to us in person. I dunno about the third coworker who was there – their opinion was basically “I want to stay out of it. I’ve been in this c-suite’s crosshairs before and it was vile.” Fair.

    A friend in another industry was SHOCKED that we had to sign NDAs and said it was unethical. What’s people’s experience on this? Are NDAs pretty typical in these situations?

    I got an apology and a promise that it wouldn’t happen again, which I am good with, so I guess the process works? But what’s up with the NDAs?

    1. Fluffy Fish*

      Noooooo. NDA’s are always always always the company covering their behind. They can now handle it however (including not) and you can’t say anything. They are interested in protecting their reputation.

      The good news is if something happened that was illegal/criminal you can sign all the NDA’s in the world and they won’t hold up.

      1. Uncomfortable, mostly*

        GAH. ok so next time – if there is a next time, can I just opt not to sign??

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          I personally would not. I would do something like send an email summarizing that my understanding is HR is refusing to handle a sexual harassment complaint unless I agree to sign an NDA. That might be enough to make them knock it off.

          But I’m not a lawyer.

          My niece just had this happen with a complaint files against her. Despite mountains of evidence the other individuals was a documented liar, the company basically decided that the liar suing over the accusation was a higher risk than just firing my niece. And they made her sign and NDA before telling her the resolution. So she was fired with no recourse – she can’t say anything.

          1. Temperance*

            Okay so, your niece should consider reaching out to an employment attorney. The NDA may not actually be enforceable; lots of companies use them to intimidate folks, knowing that they have no legal teeth.

            1. Fluffy Fish*

              Thank you – she did do so. I’m not sure what the whole conversation was, but they basically advised her it was likely more heartache and money to fight it with an ultimately an unsure outcome.

              Unfortunately she thought she was doing the right thing by the company, and too young and inexperienced to realize the company is only interested in doing what’s best for the company.

              But she picked herself up and had a new job by the following Monday.

          2. irene adler*

            I wonder if niece could claim she signed the NDA under duress or under false pretenses.
            (and I recognize that I don’t have any details about this, so I may be all wet here)

          3. Uncomfortable, mostly*

            Thank you so much for this reply. I literally copied and pasted it into my notes app. This would have bought me some time. HR made it feel SUPER URGENT that I do it while at the home office, and it seemed reasonable plus i’m a fool >_<

    2. Temperance*

      OMG. Never, ever sign an NDA unless there is a negotiation or settlement or something that makes it worth your time. That’s the company sweeping assault under the rug.

        1. blue wall*

          Look into the current JOFA scandal (Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance) if you would like to read about how NDAs tamped down on sharing about an abusive leader.

          1. Uncomfortable, mostly*

            Thank you but I’m literally experiencing this in real time. Not sure I wanna read about it in my free time.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      What the actual f—.
      Much sputtering…..
      And then the NDA? Yeah, no NDA in the world is going to cover this company’s rear.
      Please tell me you’re looking for another job.

      1. Uncomfortable, mostly*

        The first 2 lines were my first reaction for sure.

        I am struggling with the last line – which my partner and friends have strongly suggested to me! I love my team, genuinely enjoy my role, and I work remotely. I only see this exec 4-5 times a year when I visit the home office.

        and since we’re all friends here anonymously on the internet….I traveled there in March when the incident happened. Signed an NDA in March, and in April I got a 15k retention bonus out of the blue. I have to stay till Sept to claim it. So………………..am i setting feminism back or am i just doing what’s right for me?

        1. Everything Bagel*

          So they paid you off to not report the sexual harassment/assault conducted by their executive. I know we’re not supposed to ask this here, but is this real? Like, for real, for real?

          1. Uncomfortable, mostly*

            I did report it, got an apology from the exec and figured that was the end of it. I followed the reporting process we’re trained for.

        2. Hlao-roo*

          Nobody reacts perfectly in these situations. You did a very good thing by reporting it in the first place, made a mistake by signing the NDA (I would have too, fwiw), and then the company ~coincidentally~ gave you a very nice retention bonus. If you want to stay until September to cash in on it, do so with a clear conscious. You didn’t create this bad situation, you’re just muddling through it as best you can.

          1. Uncomfortable, mostly*

            Thank you for this empathetic reply. It’s been a tortured couple of months of second guessing and guilt and shame. You’re right – I’m just trying to do the best I can and I didn’t create this poopstorm in the first place.

    4. Everything Bagel*

      An executive at your company touched your breast, then HR made you sign an NDA about it, all just for an apology. And you’re okay with this?

      1. Uncomfortable, mostly*

        I honestly was until my friends and loved ones were like WHAT THE FVVK after I told them. It was high-key humiliating and I was just happy it was over?!

        Then i came here for a gut check.

    5. Can't think of a funny name*

      I think you should go back to HR and say that the retention bonus was a nice start but you deserve a raise too ;)

  68. Hybrid Challenges*

    Happy Friday all! I’m newly a manager of managers, and working in a hybrid environment where I’m in the office along with several of the individual contributors on the team, but the managers are all remote. I’ve already noticed a few instances where an IC asks me something that I could easily give direction or make a decision about, but that I’d like them to talk to their manager about instead. Sometimes for relationship-building reasons (I was previously everyone’s manager and want them to get used to working with new managers), sometimes for visibility/prioritization reasons. How are other hybrid folks handling this, and any tips for politely redirecting them?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      “Hi [Jane], run that question by [manager Sue] first. If she’s not answering her [email/slack/zoom/whatever] swing back by and I’ll take a look. Thanks!” Go for a really positive tone. You want them comfortable coming to you, and you don’t want to make a big deal of it. It’s just retraining them.

      And it might flag an issue for you too, maybe the managers remote aren’t easily reachable or have slow response times. Definitely too, consider having your remote managers have “open office hours” on zoom a couple times a week or similar, to recreate that “drop in” question level of accessibility, especially for stuff where sending an email invite for a zoom call for a 2 min question feels awkward but its not easily asked in an email/slack message.

    2. SomebodyElse*

      You need to treat it like the managers are one office down from you.

      Wakeen: Hi Hybrid Challenges, say, should I be sorting the paperclips by material type or by size?
      HC: Good Question can you run that past Sally, she may have preference that I’m not aware of
      or
      Good Question, I haven’t been close to that project but I know that Joquin has been involved, I’d only have to ask him so it’s probably quicker if you just go direct.

      Some of this is proximity so it’s natural that it happens, I wouldn’t worry too much about the managers’ availability unless something else indicates a problem. But the trick is to keep directing the ICs back to their manager. Just because the employees are hybrid, doesn’t mean that the structure breaks down.

    3. just another bureaucrat*

      This is really hard. Assuming your managers can do this I think you can just say some of this to the individual contributors. Depending on the relationship with them tailor your message.
      I did something like “I really want to help you with all of the things but I’ll end up not getting to the new stuff that I’m supposed to be doing, can you please check with Manager first?” because that worked for my style.

      Something that supports the manager’s is also good. “I’m stepping away from that more with my role so Manager’s going to have the most detailed up to date answers for these things.” or “Manager’s really the expert on this so please check with them first.” If manager’s are good at responding quickly and you can be a little tiny bit less accessible pointing that out is good. “I’m in meetings all the time so messaging Manager’s going to get you an answer faster!”

  69. AnonIC*

    I’ve told my boss (even while interviewing) that I’m not interested in managing anyone and am happiest in an IC (individual contributor) role.

    They recently told they’d like me to mentor an existing intern on a project and “try out having a direct report.” I even repeated in the moment “I’ve mentioned that I have no interest in a managerial role.” but wasn’t given a choice. I think I’ll be ok with this specific situation since 1) it’s more mentoring someone in a certain task more than a true manager/report kind of thing despite my manager’s language, and 2) will have a fairly short timeline (2 months).

    It just irks me something like this was thrown at me. Any advice from others that have been put on the spot like this?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I think you have to be willing to share knowledge on some level. Training others to do what you do is that. An intern is a little different but still shades of that. Remember you can always find a new job if it becomes “be a manager or else” here. 2 months seems like a doable window and its another data point in how you feel about this. (Who knows, maybe the intern thing goes great and then that’s your ticket out of regular direct reports, you just do interns periodically instead!)

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      The first intern I got was dumped on me, because the person who was supposed to be overseeing them was a train wreck. I was super ticked about it at first, but the intern really hadn’t done anything wrong, so I tried to be as helpful as I could be. In the process, I discovered that I love interns and that I actually really liked managing. As DisneyChannelThis mentioned, training people and mentoring folks to learn to do a new skill that you do is pretty much a part of most jobs. I’d stick with it for two months and think of it as a chance to maybe help someone whose new in their career. I always try to think of my mentoring interns as a chance to give back to someone who maybe didn’t have the opportunities I had. One thing I always try to do with interns, which makes it kind of fun for me, is to not just show them how to do the work, but really get into the why of the work. This is why I do it this way to help them get context on how the decision making process in my field works. That angle isn’t something I often get to dive into and I think it’s a really fun part of interns.

    3. Raboot*

      As a software engineer, mentorship is an expected part of the my job, especially as I move upwards. It’s not the same as people management. I don’t know your field but if it’s one that commonly uses interns, someone has to be their main contact, and someone has to show them the ropes, it is what it is.

      It’s weird your manager is framing this as “having a direct report” but having an intern is just a part of work life imo.

      1. allathian*

        Yeah, it is a bit weird. Although managing interns is often the first step into people management for those who are interested in that.

    4. allathian*

      I hear you, I have no interest in managing anyone, either. That said, because I have seniority in my role and because none of my managers have ever had the subject matter expertise that’s necessary for training new employees in my role, when we hired my current coworker 8 years ago, I mentored him quite closely at first to get him up to speed. It was fine, and the adjustment to going from a mentoring relationship to a peer relationship went smoothly as he learned how things are done at our org.

  70. ToDoList*

    I have a LinkedIn etiquette question — I’m a manager starting a new job. I’m not a heavy LinkedIn user, but I like to connect with people I work with. I have no problem sending a request to my own boss or other colleagues, but I haven’t made requests to connect with anyone reporting to me. My thinking is that I should let them initiate it if they’re interested and not put them in a position to feel pressured to do it if they aren’t. Am I on the right track?

    1. Fluffy Fish*

      That’s my preference. I do not like connecting with current managers.

      Others feel differently – the whole point of linked in is to connect yada yada.

      When you are in a position of power over others, I think you default being to err on the side of not putting them in positions to accept things based on the power dynamic will always serve you well.

    2. Bernice Clifton*

      I would not send a connection request to your reports – you don’t want them to feel like they have to accept so they don’t hurt your feelings even if they would rather not.

    3. MechanicalPencil*

      My new manager reached out with this note like “hey, I’d like to connect with you. If you’d rather keep things separate, totally understand.”

      It was still a smidge odd since I’ve typically broached sending an LI invite (when I’m not intimidated by like “oh we worked super closely, but he IS the CEO…”)

  71. Veering North*

    I have a coworker who uses her Vietnamese name at work and has recently been really irritated with people mispronouncing it, to the point where I think she’s brought it up in a one-on-one with our manager. I know there’s a lot of bad history with immigrants/POCs being pressured to use English names or simplified versions of their names at work so I understand where my coworker is coming from with her frustration. At the same time, I’ve listened to her say both the correct pronunciation and the incorrect pronunciations, but I also have trouble hearing the difference. (I do speak some tonal languages, but my ear wasn’t trained to pick up the differences in Vietnamese). Does anyone have any advice/experience with bridging the gap?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Get the trendy email signature thing where it lets you record the audio pronunciation of your names. This clues people in if they’re really messing up and lets you repeat it over and over until you’ve got it without needing coworker to repeat it 500 times.

      1. pancakes*

        If that’s not an option, I think it would be a good idea for her to add a parenthetical with the phonetic pronunciation after her name in her signature block.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Or she could put a phonetic pronunciation in her email signature. Example using the Fourteenth Doctor’s name:

        Ncuti Gatwa (say SHOO-tee GAT-wa)
        The Doctor
        ngatwa @ timelords . com

    2. PostalMixup*

      I think it’s unreasonable to expect everyone to pronounce a name that comes from a different language the way a native speaker does, especially if the name comes from a tonal language and the commonly-spoken language isn’t tonal. It’s just not something those ears are going to be able to pick up on. Obviously, people should make an effort, but it’s always going to have an “accent.” My non-native-English-speaking coworkers don’t pronounce my name exactly the way I do, and I’m sure I don’t pronounce their names exactly right, either. But everyone is giving a good faith effort, and that’s what I consider important. This might just be a situation where she needs to accept the fact that her coworkers can’t hear the difference between proper and improper pronunciation.

    3. Joielle*

      I don’t know that there’s much for you to do about it, but I wonder if it would help your coworker to think of it like accents – if someone has a foreign accent, I wouldn’t get mad at them for pronouncing my name differently than I do, as long as they were attempting to get it right. But that’s probably a conversation for your manager to have with your coworker.

    4. Raboot*

      As long as you’re making a reasonable approximation in your own accent in English, you’re fine imo. You don’t need to act on what other people bring up to the manager. If she or the manager brings it up to you, then you can say you are doing your best and cannot hear the difference.

      Like, I work with someone with a “foreign” name that also has a pronunciation in English. Think Jesús. I make sure to say “hay-soos” and not “jee-zus”, but I’m not going to worry about sounding Spanish beyond that. I don’t speak Spanish and we communicate in English. This is also what I prefer people do with my own non-English name. People like your coworker may have different preferences, but they gotta rein them in and be realistic, especially at work.

      1. PostalMixup*

        I have a coworker in Israel named Eli. Over here, that’s usually pronounced “EE-lye.” Over there, it’s “EH-lee.” I can pronounce his name pretty close to the way he pronounces it. I have a Spanish friend named Marcos. I cannot for the life of me flip my Rs like a Spanish speaker does. 60% of my team (including my supervisory) is Chinese. I am confident I do not pronounce their names perfectly, partly because I cannot hear tonal differences, but I do the best I can.

        1. Raboot*

          Yeah it’s all about respect at the end of the day. In my experience most Americans just can’t make the same kinds of vowel sounds we have in Hebrew and can’t necessarily hear the difference. But you’re saying eh-lee and not ee-lye, so you are being respectful of his name. Respect doesn’t require mastering another language’s phonology.

    5. pancakes*

      If her name is reasonably common there may be people on YouT*be who’ve recorded short video pronunciation help.

  72. Dragonfly7*

    I am assisting a hiring committee for my position at a different location, and this is the first time I will be interviewing candidates who I already know. They apparently want to move to that location. I don’t think they know I’m on the interview panel. Is there anything I should watch for in terms of their behavior, or even my own, both before and after the interview? We already have a policy about not discussing interviews outside the hiring committee or giving feedback to candidates.

  73. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

    A vent, mostly:

    Over and over again, evidence shows that the best systems have the least amount of niche jargon and obscure acronyms. The systems that allow people to succeed are clear cut, succinct, and accessible. When systems are full of jargon and acronyms, people get confused and they spend a lot of time struggling with the system itself. People will quit whole-ass jobs or drop out of educational and professional opportunities when the language used in the system itself doesn’t make sense. Over and over again, this is shown to be true.

    Our institution is currently implementing a brand new system that is central to every single thing we do. And guess what? CHOCKABLOCK WITH JARGON!!! 85% OF ACTIONS AND AREAS OF THE SYSTEM ARE NOW CALLED A WEIRD ACRONYM!!!!! THINGS THAT WERE CALLED “LLAMA GROOMING SCHOLARSHIPS” FOR 30 YEARS ARE NOW CALLED “SPONSORSHIPS EXTERNAL TO INSTITUTION NONREFUNDABLE”!!!! That’s not even a thing that is just A PILE OF WORDS!!!

    Why, my dudes. Why!!

    2. Hotdog not dog*

      I feel your pain! My company actually has an acronym dictionary on our intranet…and the most irritating part is that some are used for multiple meanings, so there are still plenty of times everyone’s emails make no sense.

    3. evens*

      It’s kind of funny that you complained about jargon…using the example of llama grooming. :)

  74. Anonforthis*

    TL;DR: Is my new boss a jerk or am I too sensitive? I’m taking on some new projects at work because a coworker on another team, Mickey, got a skip level promotion to become my grand boss. I don’t know Mickey well, but he’s got a bit of a mixed reputation in the office – he’s known for playing games but also for positioning his team well for high profile projects, and I’m hoping to get more opportunities now that I’m in his chain of command. In taking on his projects, I’ve gotten copies of a lot of his old work. We write highly technical documentation that goes through many iterations with different people working on different parts of each document (but only one person working on it at a time). Whenever Mickey has worked on a document, he’ll make a point of identifying places where his colleagues’ work could have been done better for his supervisors. Things like “I think Donald made a mistake here and missed X” Or “Goofy did Y here but Z would have been better because of ABC.” When I do similar work, I say things like “I think we should have included X here, Boss, let me know if you think we should rewrite this,” or “I think we could use Z instead of Y here because of ABC, what do you think Boss?” Is this just a difference in style? Or is Mickey subtly calling out his colleagues’ work to negatively contrast it with his own? Is this something I should be aware of as an employee in his chain of command?

    1. sigh*

      Mickey seems to do what needs to be done to get ahead regardless of who he steps on. That might be an extreme opinion. I’m curious are his notes official documents, or just internal reminders? If internal, I would take it as he was making notes for himself for future projects. However if they are official documents, I personally think I would be more cautious. I like your wording of how to question your boss. I would definitely put such ideas in writing, again in err of being cautious.

      1. Anonforthis*

        I’ve gotten the stepping-on-people vibe too, but I wasn’t sure if it was me internalising gossip or a real thing. These are semi-official documents seen by first and second line supervisors and available to the whole department, but comments are edited out before docs are sent up the chain to the C-suite. Thanks for the reply, it was really helpful.

    2. Château de Chat*

      That would definitely rub me the wrong way. Let me guess, when the work is perfect, he’s probably happy to take the praise without crediting the employee who did it? It’s not a difference in style so much as a difference in attitude – he’s not willing to take responsibility for his team, which is what a good manager does. Ideally he would use your wording and then address any issues privately with the employee responsible (if it even rises to the level of addressing).

      1. Anonforthis*

        So at the time of writing, the people he was criticising weren’t his employees, they were same-level colleagues and team leads in their own right. I have no idea how he treats his team, but they always seem to get the most visible projects – although I have heard rumours that’s he’s not great about giving credit where credit is due.

    3. OtterB*

      Does Mickey ever call his colleagues out by name in a document to give them credit for something, or only to correct something?

  75. Not a Carrot*

    Should I walk away before I onboard?

    European here, joining a US software company as a fully remote employee. This is my second time working for a US company, so I was confident I’d be able to bridge the cultural gap relatively easily. I recently interviewed with several companies, got two offers and happily accepted one of them. The product fit is really good, the position is a good ramp-up opportunity and I had very high hopes for a great cultural fit. All the interviewers projected a lot of transparency, pragmatism and empathy, and the company values are pretty progressive. I was very excited to join the company.

    Three weeks ago I got my draft contract, written by an external lawyer, that included several employee-hostile clauses that I asked to remove or reword. This included an all-encompassing intellectual property clause (all your code belongs to us), which is a no-no for me. I replied with three change requests, including a clause (taken from a previous contract) to restrict the IP transfer to works related to my position and the company’s domain only. The HR representative argued on the other changes, but didn’t argue on this one. I assumed the matter was settled, but I would not be writing here if it was.

    Overall, the communication with HR was sluggish and I had to take the lead on all the logistics (getting a laptop to work on, scheduling onboarding meetings…). This week (four days before my scheduled onboarding date), I get the final contract: all my changes have been incorporated, except the IP clause. When I asked about it, HR bluntly replied they would not be changing the wording. I reached out to my (maybe future) team lead to mediate this, and they immediately backed me up (as their contract does not have such a clause, and they wouldn’t have signed it either). They are currently escalating to management to get things moving, and I have good hopes they will succeed.

    I am not in immediate need to work, so I don’t mind one more week off while the dust settles, but this situation is a significant blow to my perception of the company, for two reasons. First, unresponsive and unfriendly HR is never a good thing to have as an employee. Second, the contract’s employee-hostile tone does not match the culture that the company projects. Assuming the team lead succeeds in overruling the contract, I am not sure I still want to give the company the benefit of the doubt.

    Reaching out to the other company that extended an offer is not really an option, as I uncovered a significant red flag at the end of the process. I’ll be hoping for the best, while preparing for the worst: starting to build a new pool of companies for a second round of interviews.

    On the one hand, this whole situation rubbed me in the wrong way, but my friends tell me I should not drop everything for one isolated incident. What would you do?

    1. Chelsea*

      I’ve never worked in this industry, so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt. But I can say that I currently work for a company I love. However, our HR department sucks. They are slow and disorganized and often confused. They escalate every question to our GC, usually without context, and rarely do good work in interpreting her advice. They are the most frustrating thing about my job. Other than HR, I love my company and my role.
      If your future boss is able to fix the contract issue and generally stands up for you, that is a great sign. HR is bureaucratic and they’re not industry experts, so it’s not unusual for things there to be murky. For me, that wouldn’t be a deal breaker alone.

      1. CG*

        This is my exact experience as well! I think if your team backs you up completely AND is successful in convincing HR to back down, those are both big green flags to me.

    2. Filosofickle*

      I went through this recently! The contract was hostile and adversarial in a way that was genuinely a record scratch, totally out of step with everything else I’d experienced with them. I pushed back on the outlandish clauses, and a couple were easily modified but there was one sticking point. I almost walked away because it really did sour me on the company. Were these terms an indicator of how they really treated employees?! The HR folks told me “oh I don’t know why we have that we wouldn’t enforce that” — so why is it there?

      In the end they did agree to modify the contract, I came on board, and haven’t witnessed anything weird since then. It really was a glitch in HR / legal. If they hadn’t agreed I would have walked.

    3. pancakes*

      I think there are a lot of situations in which HR and/or Legal is difficult on something or other, but then you have little interaction with them once you’re working with your own team. Hopefully this is one of those!

    4. Glomarization, Esq.*

      I don’t think that sluggishness in the negotiations process before you’re hired will reflect everyday culture once you’re working for this company.

      In any event, the ball is in their court right now with the negotiation, so IMO you shouldn’t walk away until you hear back from them again on the IP clause.

    5. Not a Carrot*

      Thanks to the several commenters for their advice. Unfortunately, HR came back with an alternative that is not acceptable, so I will gracefully walk away.
      I reached out to friends to get a reality check on this matter, and one of them is offering to refer me into their company, so it might not be too bad after all!

  76. Coast East*

    No questions but I do need to brag! I recently got a retail job (using AAM resources of course) that I knew was a step down financially and title wise, but would let me travel more. Ok, great. BUT within 5 weeks of working there I’ve been offered a promotion in both pay and title and my boss has said they will personally call whatever branch I am close to in my travels to recommend me! Wow! After years of crappy management and feeling my professionalism sliping away in a toxic office I feel like I’m on solid ground again.

    2. Person from the Resume*

      This is a good news story, for sure. That’s awesome.

      I admire your willingness to take a step back at work in support of something you want personally.

    3. OyHiOh*

      Yay, that’s wonderful to hear! Retail gets such a bad rap but in a good company, it can be a really good, flexible choice!

      Tagging on with a brag of my own: Learning to speak up for projects and opportunities that I want, rather than hoping my boss will simply infer I want them. Our org got an invite to a gala event at a local arts/culture non profit, and it’s a non profit I have positive history with. When the invite came in, I went and told my boss that I would really like to be the person from our org attending the thing, reminded him of my history with them (it’s a line on my resume), blah blah blah. He agreed I should go. I know it was an easy agreement for him because he hates these sorts of events, but if I hadn’t spoken up, our org probably wouldn’t have attended at all. I, on the other hand, thoroughly enjoy these sorts of things and I get a plus 1 so my partner and I get an enjoyable evening out without paying the $120/ticket that we’d otherwise pay on our own dime, and I’ll network to my heart’s content.

  77. sigh*

    Hopefully I’m not too down on the open thread to get some advice. I volunteer with a non profit that is near and dear to my heart. I hope one day to do this on a more professional level. Long story short we have elections coming up for various board positions. There is a person who is pulling out all the stops, loopholes and any other method to be President. While we all like her as a friend, I think she will be very overbearing as president. I have discussed my personal opinions with former mentors and have been told my reasoning is not out of line. The thing is many people, including myself, are willing to give it a shot with her as president, but are planning on leaving if her stern outlook doesn’t change. We don’t get many volunteers so more than two people leaving will most likely collapse the non profit.

    What would you do…. deal with it if it means keeping the organizaiton going or option 2 just say your time is better served elsewhere and just leave?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Nothing lasts forever. Nonprofits aren’t going to run forever. I’m sorry.

      Have you considered running against her and getting all these people who agree with you to vote for you instead?

      1. Person from the Resume*

        If people are this concerned why are you giving her a shot to ruin the non-profit? Coordinate a campaign to have her lose. She sounds like a pretty bad option even if a nice person.

        1. sigh*

          There have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions. No matter what discussion you have about the future, she will come back with some other option, opposition, ideas, etc.

          1. PollyQ*

            So you’re planning to elect her because she’s too much of a PITA to have around otherwise? I strongly feel that your best move is work against her being elected. Would you marry someone hoping that they’d change, but planning to leave if they didn’t? OTOH, if the org is so fragile that just 2 members leaving would cause it to collapse, then it’s probably going to fold soon anyway.

            1. Person from the Resume*

              I agree. I understand that working against a decent person who wants something so bad can make you feel bad/uncomfortable/mean yourself but it sounds like what’s best for the non profit is that she isn’t elected.

              If she was elected and the non profit folded would you regret not doing more to stop her election?

      2. sigh*

        I’m coming off my term as presidency. I can not run again for another 3 years. I was by no means a perfect president, but I think I did alright. Between some board turnover (that we were prepared for), changes in the cause, covid etc – the role of presidency changed dramatically over the last 2.5 years. Basically the organization/ board I became president of is not the same as it is now. This person seems to have some entitled? opinion that she deserves to be president and will stop at nothing. To be honest while I am president for 10 more weeks her actions (to me) seem to overstepping and condisending to the point that I’m getting frustrated… and we haven’t even had elections yet!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Review the bylaws, rules of conduct and anything else you have.

      If you know X behavior means you will have one foot out the door you can give it one last chance by saying, “According to our bylaws/rules of conduct/whatever we cannot be doing X behavior for Y reasons.” Notice the use of the inclusive WE but you actually mean her. Say it out loud in the middle of a meeting when the problem occurs.

      If the behavior does not break any rules, then your next best bet is to just say, “I can’t work this way where X is going on.”

      Leading volunteers is a very different form of leadership. I believe Alison has a guide for managing NPOs. Maybe it would be worth it to you to buy this person a copy of the book.

  78. KateDee*

    How do you advance your career when you work in a really niche, amazing space?

    I work in customer loyalty marketing. It’s SO much fun and so interesting, and I love and excel at my job, but I will eventually want to move up in my career. At my current company, everyone in roles above me is a long termer. Assuming they won’t leave, there’s nowhere for me to go.

    I work remotely, I love my job and need to continue in a remote setup. This is SO challenging for future advancement.

    My husband says i need to just cast my net wider and look into other marketing roles when I eventually want to leave, but that advice makes me feel sad.

    1. Person from the Resume*

      Perhaps someone above you will leave. I think right now you should take actions to position yourself to be selected to move up if a position opens up. Even if one never does, whatever you do to position yourself for a higher position at your current company can be used if you have to apply at different companes.

    2. sigh*

      since you don’t “need” another job right now, maybe do like Person-from-the-Resume says and take action to position yourself for when an opening happens, but also this gives you a golden opportunity to search for something you would be interested in. Maybe you will find your next challenge at another company.

    3. ferrina*

      I’d occasionally work on other projects just to keep your skills sharp, but you’ve found something you love and you’re happy! It’s not like your skills won’t transfer into other roles. When the time comes to leave, then you can worry about how picky you’ll want to be (i.e., if you’re starting to get bored and ready to move up you can be really picky; if your company suddenly becomes toxic and you need a quick exit, be less picky).

      But really, don’t let this take up headspace now. It sounds like you’ve got a great set up- enjoy it!

    4. Hen in a Windstorm*

      You’re projecting a lot of emotions into a future that doesn’t exist yet. You don’t want to move up yet. You aren’t yet where you need to make any kind of decision to stay or leave. And yet you’re already feeling sadness about a decision that you aren’t making. Why are your borrowing trouble from the future? By the time you actually need to make a decision, 15 things may be different that you can’t even think of now.

      Step back, be way less emotionally engaged, and make a *general* plan for the future. Expect that it will change and your needs will change.

  79. SearchingInDC*

    Any tips/advice/encouraging words for leaving a job without your next lined up?

    This job was a really bad fit in terms of industry and skillset, a fact which I knew within a year of taking it but which was exacerbated by the pandemic. It was affecting my mental health and I was having trouble with executive function and completing tasks, even for the admin side of it which is my strength (kind of similar to the now-teacher who recently updated). I gave a month’s notice this week and it was understood and cordially accepted by my boss. I believe she’ll still give me a good reference for the type of position I’m now seeking.

    I am so, so looking forward to putting this job and the way it made me feel about myself in the rearview, and I feel good about application materials (thanks in part to AMA) and future prospects. I was already pet-sitting on the side, so I’m going to temporarily expand that to pay the bills.

    It’s still pretty scary and nerve-wracking as I’ve never done this before. I could use any words of advice or encouragement from folks who’ve been in a similar boat and made it through!

    1. The Lion's Roar*

      I did this recently! I’m a few months into my new job now. Here’s how I presented it while job hunting: I realized the position I’d ended up in wasn’t what I wanted to be doing because of (whatever – all that matters is that it’s stuff inherent to the old job that isn’t present in the new job). I was fortunate enough to be able to take some time off and think about what I really did want to be doing – and that’s how I came to apply for this position, which I’m excited about because of (whatever it is about the position that appeals to you that the old job didn’t have).

      For me specifically, I said I didn’t like that my old position made my relationship with clients adversarial because it was compliance-related, and I was really looking for something where clients and I could be on the same side. All that was true, and it ultimately was the root of the issue, but the “main” reason was similar to yours – I was struggling in the role and needed time off for my mental health.

      I’m so glad I took the time away, and I hope it goes well for you too!

      1. SearchingInDC*

        Thank you, this is actually very heartening! I’m currently in a sales position and looking to move into operations/admin/project-focused stuff in the nonprofit field, so I feel like it will be pretty reasonable to explain the shift away from that. But yes, I’m also really looking forward to a short (fingers crossed) break from the grind. Hanging with cats and dogs, getting more exercise, reading more, and remembering that I am not in fact a hopeless failure. So glad that it worked out for you :)

    2. Hlao-roo*

      You’re making the right choice for yourself! Your mental health will recover and your job search will be much easier when you’re not trying to balance it with a stressful job.

      Good luck!

  80. Amber Rose*

    Today we are doing Escape Rooms as a team building activity. There are four of them (2 inside and 2 in trailers in the parking lot) and 6 teams rotating through them, and everyone is extremely hyper. :D

    This is why I’m a proponent of this kind of thing. Yeah, some people hate it. They are working quietly today and they can join us for the lunch we’re having catered if they want. The rest of everyone else has perked WAY up, everyone’s laughing and excited.

    1. RagingADHD*

      That sounds fun, and it’s great that people can opt in or out and still be included in the lunch.

      1. Amber Rose*

        We have a shipload of food. I invited the escape room workers to eat with us too because OMG lol.

    2. Team player*

      Well, that will certainly build some us and them “teams” to give your workplace new and interesting issues. Not what I’d think of as team building, and certainly not the kind of team building that is good for a company, but as long as you’re having fun I guess?

      1. Amber Rose*

        How is it doing that? We assigned the teams. Everyone who wants to is just having fun in their own time with maybe a couple people they don’t normally work that closely with.

      2. Raboot*

        That’s so weirdly negative. Why would “doing an activity with coworkers” create an us vs them dynamic? How would be be bad for a company for coworkers to do an activity together?

    3. ferrina*

      I love this kind of thing, and I love when it’s offered. I agree that it’s good to have an opt-out for folks that hate it or aren’t able to do it, but it can be great for team building for folks like me.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Normally I hate team-building hooey, but this sounds like something I’d actually want to do. Especially if there’s food.

      1. allathian*

        I’d love to do a virtual escape room with coworkers over Teams or something. I’m afraid that my claustrophobia would make a physical escape room uncomfortable at best, so I’m not willing to try those…

  81. Ronnie*

    Would it sound okay to use “my coworker doesn’t pull her weight” as a reason for wanting to leave a job?

    Me and my coworker (Lilly) are in the same role, and she won’t do any “shared” work. She only does work directly assigned to her.

    As some examples:

    My boss assigned some tasks that we were both supposed to be covering every day. I was the only one doing them for a few months until I asked my boss to assign us days to do them so I didn’t have to do it all.

    Whenever my boss e-mails us both, asking “one of you” to do a task, I’m the only one that responds and takes care of it.

    There’s a shared inbox for my team and me and Lilly are supposed to check throughout the day to respond to requests from other teams. I’m the only one that does that work too. And since I’m the only one anyone from other teams ever hears from, I’m the one they always send questions to.

    I was told one of the reasons there’s two people in this position is so if one person is unable to work for any reason for any length of time, they won’t return to a backlog of work. But if I take a class for a few hours, or take a sick day, or take a few PTO days, I come back to all this work that didn’t get done.

    I feel resentful that I have to do more work with no benefit for me, and I hated being in similar situations in a previous jobs (I worked with people who would just not do their jobs and it meant more work for me and other people, and management didn’t care).

    I really just want a role where I have my own responsibilities, and don’t have to worry about picking up someone else’s slack. I don’t know if that would make me sound like “not a team player” to potential employers though.

    1. BlueBelle*

      NO, don’t say that. I always turn the question into a positive as to why I want the job I am interviewing for. “When I saw the posting I was really drawn to (excited about, intrigued) about XYZ.” and then align that with my experience. I almost never answer that question. :)

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      That’s something you say to your manager at your current company, never to a potential employer.

    3. SoloKid*

      Never badmouth a current employer (over something like this.)

      In your current role, could you turn “more work with no benefit for me” into an actual benefit for you? Ask for a raise for making 30% more widgets than others on the team.

      Or if management truly doesn’t care, do as much work as you can for your 8hrs a day and just ask how to prioritize them and let the other balls drop.

    4. Dragonfly7*

      Is there a way you can turn it into a question instead? I feel like this would fall somewhere under both wanting to know someone’s management style as well as how job responsibilities are delegated and communicated.

    6. Hen in a Windstorm*

      Stop doing Lilly’s work. Stop being the one who answers when your boss sends an email to both of you. Stop being the only one who checks the shared inbox. And talk to your boss about it. As long as the work gets done and you seem fine with it, boss likely doesn’t care.

    7. AnotherLibrarian*

      This would 100% make you sound like not a team player. The person interviewing you doesn’t know the background, so as far as they know, you might be the problem not Lily. My general advice is never bad mouth your current employer when interviewing or current colleagues.

  82. Katt*

    Hey everyone! I have a slight dilemma. I have an uncommon name that is very similar in spelling to a slightly more common name. Occasionally, even though the correct spelling of my name is present in both my Outlook email address and my signature, people still sometimes address me incorrectly even though the correct spelling is literally right there. It’s not a gigantic deal, but it’s kind of annoying because the incorrect version changes the pronunciation of the name slightly, given that, you know, they are two different names.

    I’ve noticed it is mostly French people who do this, given that the misspelling is a much more common French name, but not all of them. Sometimes it’s English speakers who do it as well.

    Is there a good way to correct them when this happens? I’m assuming not, especially if they are above me in the organization and we don’t work together, but I’ve noticed some people who do this consistently and I can’t figure out why it’s still happening despite the fact that they have seen my name in emails on and off for months now. I know it’s not malicious, and it’s a small thing, but I would like to be addressed by my actual name instead of this alternate name.

    Thanks!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      In person: “Oh I actually go by Katt, now about this report…” tone matters here, go for cheerful matter of fact, no big deal vibes.

      In emails is trickier I think I might actually ignore it (and make a private wall of shame of the worst spellings).

    2. Purple Cat*

      Just matter of fact. It’s X. Correct them immediately. People like to add a letter to my name and I am constantly saying “No Xtra letter :)” There’s no rule that someone who outranks you is allowed to misname you.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      If it’s something along the lines of Katt vs Kat or a vowel in the middle of your name, you might need to spell it out when you correct people.

      “FYI, my name is Katt with 2 Ts”

      Sometimes it’s easy to see the difference visually (Ann vs Anne), just hard to remember who spells it which way. For Matt vs Mat or Allison vs Alison, I might miss that you were trying to correct me because when I’m reading fast I won’t notice the extra/missing letter.

    4. Linda not Lisa*

      My name is Linda and when I was a freelancer, at least a couple times a year, I would send someone an email from my account that was linda@whatever, and sign it Linda, and they would reply with an email addressed to Lisa. Like you say, they were looking right at it! And it changes the pronunciation more than slightly.

      So, I dunno, but man, people are weird about names. But what’s different about my case is these were different people each time, who didn’t regularly work with me, and almost always when I answered their email and signed it Linda again, they would notice and apologize. If the same people are doing it repeatedly I would definitely just straightforwardly point it out.

    5. MJ*

      Late reply so you may not see it, but I’ve had this happen to me when I replied to someone with the correct spelling and missed autocorrupt “fixing” it for me.

  83. Helenteds*

    Why is Indeed giving bad job search advice to candidates who use their website? I applied for some internships through them and I got emails encouraging me to follow up with my application 16-18 hours after I applied, suggesting it would help me stand out. Several years of reading this blog suggests this is a bad idea. Even worse, these are internships for college students who might not know this is a bad idea.

    1. RagingADHD*

      Because it’s subjective, it isn’t a universal rule, and it isn’t black-and white. It’s not so much that it’s objectively “wrong,” as that it’s usually pointless and can be somewhat annoying. There is an outside chance that it might flag an issue if the application didn’t go through. In some relatively rare situations, it might possibly work slightly in your favor, but probably not.

      The problem is when people thing following up is a magic bullet and then become pests. Or they pin their hopes on it and get overly invested in following all the right steps, so they are distraught if they don’t hear anything back. One brief, polite follow up email is not going to tank anyone from getting an internship, but it’s usually not worth the trouble and just clogs up someone’s inbox.

    2. Ama*

      Were they encouraging you to log in to Indeed to send that follow up message? If so, then it is likely more about them trying to increase their own engagement, they just want you to use their site more.

      If they wanted you to email separately, I wouldn’t be at all surprised it they were consulting with someone at a college career center to get tips and those are hotbeds of outdated/poor advice.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      Everything RagingADHD said, plus Indeed wants people to use their site, so they have to give users a reason to think (hope) they will get better job searching results by using Indeed. A lot of people job-searching are hungry for feedback/acknowledgement, so getting emails from Indeed sparks hope and they will be more likely to continue to apply to jobs through Indeed.

    4. Raboot*

      Because their metrics are “users engaging with Indeed”, not “users get jobs (and stop using Indeed)”.

  84. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

    In a matter of days, my WONDERFUL* manager will no longer be my manager.

    Despite our opposite personalities and her extremely hands-off managerial style, I feel that I became attached to her because she chose to hire me during the great resignation era.

    She’s being promoted internally to a different team and will no longer be in my direct line of reporting- my new manager will be current Grandboss (her former manager).

    I’m probably taking it extra hard because I felt as if I was just reaching a point where we were starting to click and develop a strong rapport and she waited a few days longer than she originally expected to tell me (because of her busy schedule).

    Once the promotion is officially announced by the higherups, is there any non-intrusive way that I can express to her that I’d like to remain in at least occasional contact with her (professionally)?

    She really motivated me (although an outsider would never guess it) and I feel like I never got the chance to let her know that. I was trying to be mindful of her and not come across as clingy or annoying.

    I’m thinking of sending her a congratulatory email/personal Teams message ending with something along the lines of “Feel free to say hi or ask how I’m doing any time :)”.

    1. ferrina*

      That sounds fine! You can also say that “I’d love to hear about your new job- maybe we can grab coffee once you’re settled” (which usually means 3 weeks-3 months. You really want to give her time to get to know her new role)

      1. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

        Thanks, lol about the grabbing coffee part as we’re 100% remote and temporarily in different time zones. We do have an in-office gathering for the team planned sometime this summer which she told me she will still be attending (prob on the assumption she’ll have fully transitioned out of our team by then).

        1. ferrina*

          Remote coffee is real! I’ve been hybrid for 6 years now (even pre-pandemic) and it’s pretty much the only way I coffee now.

  85. just a random teacher*

    It’s getting to be license renewal time for me again, and as is the case every time I go to renew my teaching license, it costs more than it did the last time I did it. (At this point, it’s almost double what I paid for my initial license fee less than 20 years ago.)

    The only reason I need this license is to work in a public school, yet my employer does not pay for it and it’s the state, who I am indirectly working for, that is charging me for it. I can afford it, but it feels like I shouldn’t have to pay money to be allowed to keep a job.

    Is this normal in other fields? Or in other fields where you need to hold a license to do a job does your employer typically pay for the renewal fees?

    Honestly, I’m mostly just tired of everything about the way teachers have been treated lately, so I’m probably unreasonably annoyed by this, but it’s just One More Imposition in a job that’s been full of them for the past few years with no end in sight. It’s not what I’ll quit over, but it certainly isn’t on the “reasons I’m excited to stick around list” either.

    At this point, given what we’ve all been through, I feel like the state should be auto-renewing everyone’s teaching licenses for free with no paperwork required and sending us cash bonuses for not quitting in a stream of profanity, really.

    1. Llellayena*

      Architect here. I need to renew my license every 2 years and my company does not pay for it. I think there are some companies that will, but I don’t think it’s standard.

    2. just another bureaucrat*

      I’m in government in a different field but a license is required and they don’t pay for it either. In some cases where there is continuing education required they’ll pay for that but not the license fees.

      Licenses are…weird. The theory is there I suppose, but the practice of all of it is weird.

    3. Gatomon*

      In IT here. My company will reimburse for successful vendor certification exams and your first failed attempt. Maintaining certification is required for my job and for my company to retain benefits with certain vendors. We also have money for conferences and training, but I am eating the cost of the training for my recert this year, which is about $1,000. Company spent the budgeted money on training junior employees so I’m not very upset, the cost of training is more burdensome for them as they make a third of what I do.

    4. Purple Cat*

      My company pays for licenses that are required for the job. So some state licensing, some project management credentials (that technically aren’t required, but presumably make the person better at their job). It’s private sector though. I’m not at all surprised that yours isn’t covered – but it is lousy.

    5. Irish Teacher*

      Sounds similar to the Teaching Council here in Ireland that we have to pay each year in order to remain “registered” as teachers. It’s relatively new (2006), so many of us worked at a time when we didn’t have to do this. I agree it’s somewhat irritating and they actually had to reduce the cost here at one point, due to questions about what the money was actually for.

    6. peter b*

      When I worked in property and casualty insurance, my company paid my license fee – I was support staff. But each agency is fairly independent and my boss paid for my initial license as well as work time to study for it, and I wonder if that has to do with the business being primarily selling. I agree that in your context it’s a ridiculous set up, and moreover in the current time.

    7. anon24*

      EMS. I pay all my con ed and recertification fees. My company offers free continuing education classes but anything I take outside of them (and they don’t offer enough to recert) I have to pay for. My state is free to renew but my national certification is not. I’m moving to another state soon and it’s over $200 just to ask them if I can please be an EMT in their state with no guarantee I’ll get a cert, not including paying for background checks and the required medical exam

      A lot of EMS providers in the US don’t make much more than minimum wage and its a slap in the face to have to then pay hundreds in con ed and recert fees on top of it.

    8. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My department is all credentialed through one of two certifying orgs, and our organization pays for each team member’s first credential from one of the two orgs. If you have additional credentials that result in an increased membership fee, or if you have credentials from both orgs, you have to pay for anything after the first one out of pocket.

      I have credentials from both orgs, so my work pays for my membership in one and I pay the maintenance fees for the other one. My org also provides us all with a webinar subscription for continuing education materials that apply to the CE requirements for both credentialing orgs.

    9. Elizabeth West*

      They should. Gah. If I were president, I would reset the entire Education Department and make it happen.

    10. No Name Yet*

      I’m a licensed healthcare professional (license is 100% required for my job), employed by the government, and have always had to pay for my own license/exams/fees/etc. There may be some (financially flush) private hospitals that pay for license fees, but it’s always been my assumption that providers pay for it ourselves. I have definitely had the same thoughts – if I need this to work here, shouldn’t you cover it? – but I suspect that you’re correct, a good portion of your frustration is more about how awful things are/have been for teachers these last two years in general, than this specific issue. For what it’s worth, I would 110% support states just auto-renewing licenses right now – teaching is so so rough.

    11. Support your local street cats.*

      I have to have a class A CDL (for driving tractor-trailers) drivers license with a tanker endorsement that they don’t pay for, but they at least payed for the testing. Of course, in 10 years I haven’t had to drive a tractor trailer nor a tanker. Also have to have a backflow preventer testing license, but they payed for initial course and all renewals on that.

    12. GlazedDonut*

      Person with a teaching license here! There’s no cost to renew in my state, per se, but we do have to prove a certain number of credits for continuing education/PD. Those can sometimes cost money (ie workshops, conferences) but can also be free online if you look in the right places. We don’t pay a fee with renewal with the state. I’m in a southeastern state, if it matters.
      I completely agree with your point–all the little extra hurdles, with no real reason–add up. I wonder how your state uses the money for license renewal–probably a 3rd party doing checks, I’d think, unless you also get a re-print of your license each time–we don’t get that here. It’s online if you want to download and they leave it at that :)

  86. All Monkeys are French*

    How does your employer handle jury duty?
    I work for a small company that offers modest benefits. They do not pay for employees’ time during jury duty (unless we use vacation time) which means most of my colleagues try to find ways not to serve, including claiming financial hardship. One coworker said as much in front of the company owner this week and he didn’t seem bothered.
    I guess I’m wondering how common it is for employers to pay worker’s wages while they’re serving. If you are paid, does it make you or your colleagues more willing to serve, or is everyone still desperate to find ways of dodging it?

    1. Lady_Lessa*

      Two different companies: One paid us, but we had to give them the money we got paid to be on the jury.
      Other one, we are just paid.

    2. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      My employer pays for 3 days. My state requires 5+ days.

      I found out after I was dismissed that I was supposed to claim that my employer doesn’t cover the whole time and I should have been excused.

    4. Gatomon*

      I just went through this for serving a partial week on a jury. I’m salaried so I believe they would’ve had to pay me regardless as I worked part of the week, but my companies’ policy is either you get your normal wage and forfeit to them any payment you receive for serving, or you keep the money and take PTO.

      I forfeited my $50, but I wasn’t happy about it. It’s not like this wasn’t a significant disruption to my life – I would’ve rather worked.

      If it’s a legitimate hardship for someone because their company doesn’t pay them, then I have no qualms with them being excused. The judge actually asked if anyone had financial or medical concerns that would prevent them from focusing on the trial and excused those people. Unfortunately, this probably means we are accidentally selecting certain groups of people to serve – retirees, highly-paid professionals like myself, etc. Is that truly a representative body? I’m not sure.

      1. All Monkeys are French*

        I certainly don’t begrudge someone not serving because they can’t afford to. I do wish more companies would pay their people to do it. It seems like it should be the cost of doing business in a country that theoretically believes in trial by a jury of one’s peers.

        1. Gatomon*

          I agree, it doesn’t make sense for people to be in financial difficulty for performing their civic duty. If there’s concern about small businesses they could do a UI-type program where a small amount of money is paid in to reimburse employees.

          I received $50 for two full days of service, which is just not enough for anyone when the median rent boils down to $36/day in my town.

    5. Sir Ulrich Von Liechtenstein*

      My firm has a special leave category for jury duty, and it’s with full pay. From what I’ve gathered from most of my coworkers, they generally still try to get out of it as they think jury duty is a waste of time.

      Personally, I’ve never actually had to use it — got the jury duty letter a few times, but then on the day of I’ve not been asked to actually show up. I’d rather like to, to be honest. Both because I think it’s a civic good, and because I’m interested in experiencing it firsthand.

      1. Lady_Lessa*

        I’ve been called several times. In NC, actually heard a case. For that type, I will do my best not to repeat. Once in CA, I got excused, as an alternate, because I admitted that I didn’t believe scientific evidence. (As a QC person, I would want more info about the testing equipment, and when calibrated, etc.)

        I highly recommend that people do their responsibility.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I only made it to a jury once, and the judge declared a mistrial right after it started because the arresting officer screwed something up. We didn’t get to do anything. It only took a day out of my schedule, which my employer at the time didn’t pay for, but I was only making $5.15 an hour (minimum wage at the time) so it hurt. This was in California and I couldn’t get out of it for some reason.

      3. Gatomon*

        This is how I used to feel, but after serving on a DV case, I don’t want to do it again. Some in the group enjoyed the process though. I’ve been selected a few times but the first time I had to show I ended up serving, somehow.

    6. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      My old employer (university) had paid jury time. Interestingly, this seemed to increase the chances of employees getting called to jury service. It’s a running joke that there is a (University) Jury Pool and you WILL be called for service within 6 months of starting, and again exactly 3 years after your last jury service. I don’t know how the county gets away with it but there is no way that frequency is random chance!

      As a result, the university is totally cool with people being off for jury duty, even when it’s 6-12 week Grand Jury assignments (has happened to multiple people I know there, including me!).

    7. Filosofickle*

      By observation, I think it’s uncommon for companies to pay for jury duty and big companies and institutions are the most likely to. Even if it’s paid lots of people still try to get out of jury duty — I am newly at a company that DOES cover it but it was smack in the middle of a critical project with no one to cover me when I got called and was relieved I didn’t have to report. I wouldn’t have tried to get out of it. I just didn’t want to. (I’ve served. It’s fascinating and educational. Everyone should do it at least once. It also tends to derail work/life and make it very hard to plan for anything.)

    8. Temperance*

      I work at a law firm, and they have paid jury leave. You just need to sign over the small compensation check.

      We’re largely lawyers, so in theory, we serve and don’t complain. In practice, we’ve often had a situation where someone who was due to appear in court in a matter they were handling has had to argue with court staff and judges to get their assignment moved.

      I’ve gotten out of it a few times, and truthfully, probably will keep doing so in the future. I don’t want to risk the COVID exposure.

    9. Irish Teacher*

      I’m in Ireland and I’m pretty sure that here, employers are required to pay people while they are on jury duty.

      Honestly though, in Ireland, people are still anxious to dodge it. There’s a joke about “would you trust your freedom to people who can’t even find a way of getting out of jury duty?” The self-employed can get exemptions as they would not be able to be paid.

      As a teacher, I can also be exempted if my employer says they need me to work.

    10. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Mine pays for jury duty, it’s a special category of PTO. It came in handy when I was selected for a 5 day murder trial.

    11. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      When I had jury duty, I got full pay and got to keep the pittance from the county. (I wasn’t selected, so I was back in my home office by noon and only put in for half a day of jury duty pay instead of the full thing.) I was actually pretty stoked, I’ve been waiting to be called for jury duty for literally more than half my life and this was the first time. I would be fine serving again as long as I’m still with my current employer for sure.

    12. OtterB*

      My small not-for-profit has paid jury duty. I’m not sure how it gets reported on the timesheet since we’ve changed accounting systems since I last was called. (I had one other call when I asked to be excused because of care needs for a child with disabilities, and one that was “phone the night before to see if we need you” and they didn’t.) We’re not required to repay the amount of pay, probably because it’s so little and because we’re in the DC area and have employees under multiple jury systems and it’s just too complicated.

      I agree that if we want representative jury pools, we need to make it possible for people to serve without it costing them money.

    13. Hillary*

      We have full pay for jury duty and serving as an election judge, plus an additional paid volunteer day each year. I’m not sure if we have to turn over the $12/day or not, but I’ll have to find out if my election judge application is accepted. No one likes doing it, but a lot of my colleagues have been called recently, including a couple leaders on different long, serious trials. Everyone ends up working at night.

    14. Chaordic One*

      One of my former employers (a small employer) would only pay for 10 days. We were supposed to let the judge know that and hopefully if we were required to sit on a jury for a case, it would be for one that would only take a short time. If it were a case that would take longer, we were supposed to say that it would cause a financial hardship (which was the truth for most of the employees who worked there). Employer instituted the policy because one year, they had an employee out for jury duty every single work day, and they only had 15 employees .

    15. fhqwhgads*

      My last three employers all had paid time off for jury duty, up to five days annually.

    16. pancakes*

      The law on this in NY:

      “The fee for jury service is $40 per day. Jurors who receive their salary during their entire jury service will not be paid by the state. The employer of a juror, who employees more than 10 people, must pay at least $40 per day for the first three days of jury service.”

  87. Jayess*

    I’m a 32 year old finishing off my B.A., and as part of the requirements to graduate I have to take a “portfolio” course. The required reading for the course all seems very slightly… off. Most of the assigned articles are over 10 years old. Older articles obviously can still have some valuable information, but these are primarily about how to network and plan your way into the job market, so the date seems relevant.

    One of my assignments is to submit a video pitch for my ‘dream job,’ which just seems so extremely 2008 pivot to video, and gives me the ick because of the phrase ‘dream job.’ I don’t think I need any advice, just someone to convince me not to submit a video with either the “I do not dream of labour” audio or “I want to be a marshmallow” audio. And maybe a calibration check that this is a case of bad post-secondary education on career norms.

    1. StellaBella*

      Interesting assignment.

      Is your dream to work remotely and be a digital nomad? Or something similar for the now times of COVID? Do you want to manage projects or people?

      You could have a lot of fun with this.

      My angle would be that if there was no stopping me and no barriers, I personally would want to be a spaceship commander in a universe without money, needs, with food security and peace, and I would go where no woman has gone before, the final frontier.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Haha just treat it like studying another culture or something and trying to immerse yourself in it. Then crucify it in the course review. For the video pitch take it as public speaking practice or similar and make up a fictitious job goal or try and slide a pop culture references pick a character to try and be.

    3. Château de Chat*

      Suck it up and do what you need to do to finish your degree. It’s stupid but you don’t have to do those things in your job search. Then do the tiktok just for fun when you’re done with it.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      While this does seem a little silly, I do think knowing your “dream job” can be less about fantasy and more about trying to sort out in your head what matters most to you. Would you rather work with people or by yourself? What matters more vacation time or salary? How important is location to you? Would you want to be totally remote? Those sorts of questions can be really helpful to let you assess jobs on not just the title, but what you want your life to look like.

      Of course, I also do think 90% of this stuff feels like hoop jumping BS and it sucks when you have to do it.

  88. Burned Out but Cautious*

    I have worked for a medical staffing/temp agency for about a year now, in a non clinical but patient facing role. In the past, I’ve always jumped quickly from short term assignment to assignment, and have not gone more than around a week between them.

    My current assignment is ending next week. There are no currently open assignments in my department, but I will have the option to fill in for call-outs and already agreed to cover someone’s upcoming vacation. I could more aggressively seek re-assignment outside of my department, but I’m strongly considering pulling back from the staffing agency for a month or two (note: I can easily afford this) and only casually pick up shifts for call-outs. The reason I want to do this is that being a healthcare worker during covid has totally burned me out. Also, I have another side job as an artist, and I’d be nice to focus on that as I have some big deadlines coming up.

    Questions:
    1. Is this something I need to communicate to the staffing agency/scheduler I work with? I don’t want to take a full leave of absence because I want to retain the option to pick up shifts/a new assignment if something really appealing comes along.
    2. If I need to communicate it, how do I word it? “I’m burned out and want to focus on my art” sounds…less than professional.
    3. I generally enjoy working for this staffing agency and have worked hard to cultivate a reputation that I’m responsible and reliable. Is pulling back for a bit likely to damage my reputation?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      “Just wanted to give you a heads up, I’ve some additional responsibilities to take care of next month and I won’t have as much availability. I’m planning to take on fewer job assignments but I’ll be back with full availability in August and would love to be kept in the loop until then”

  89. Bewildered and Weirded Out*

    My question is regarding my coworker. The first time we met, she shared a lot about a crush on a minor celebrity. She’s quite funny, so at first it came across as somewhat whimsical. But as the conversation continued and more details and daydreams were shared (how they’d meet, what their wedding would be like), it felt increasingly off.

    I have now been in her presence twice where she has spoken about this at length in front of our managers (and in one case, our managers’ manager). If I am correctly gauging their reactions, my discomfort and disbelief were shared.

    She has expressed an interest in moving up. If she brings this up again, am I doing her a favor by expressing discomfort? Gently suggesting work might not be the best place to discuss this? If she were a friend, I’d like to think I would, but I am not sure how much one should try and steer a coworker’s behavior. Thoughts?

    1. The Ginger Ginger*

      Honestly I would just leave her alone about it. You don’t really have the personal or professional standing to address it with her. At best, you can try to steer her away from it when she starts talking about it (only because it makes you uncomfortable). Unless she asks you specifically for your thoughts on why she’s not getting promoted, I’d leave it. It’s not your problem to deal with.

      1. ferrina*

        Yeah. I’d be a little worried that she’d react irrationally to you if you tried to gently point it out. You really shouldn’t say anything unless she directly asks, and even then, you are not obligated to point it out if you are worried that she might respond irrationally (if you were her manager or her parent, my answer would be different)

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      You can interrupt her and try to steer back to work matters. But considering her judgement is a little off she may or may not respond well to that.

    3. Triplestep*

      I have shared with my manager that I think her other direct report (hired after me by two years) lacks self awareness. My manager is aware of this herself, and I just trust she’ll handle it. If you say or do anything, it should be to someone who is responsible for developing this person. If this is indicative of her personality, it will limit her professionally and it should.

    4. PollyQ*

      I would do precisely nothing about this. She’s not a friend, she’s not your report, and it sounds like lack of self-awareness is only part of the problem. “Not your circus, not your monkeys.”

    5. RagingADHD*

      If she brings up anything about advancement and asks your advice / input / thoughts about whether she might get promoted, or if you think she is in line for something, how she could better her chances, etc — then you could mention that spending a lot of time talking about celebrities / pop culture / fandom could be detrimental, because it’s not focused on work. Especially in front of managers.

      If you just want to get out of these conversation, use soft deflections and try to change the subject or just leave. But keep the issues of your feelings that this is wierd separate from the topic of promotion.

      Don’t offer unsolicited opinions. Not because you’re wrong – you are right. It is wierd. Just in terms of what she will be receptive to hear.

    6. allathian*

      Leave her alone about it, it doesn’t sound like she’d be receptive to feedback on this from you. That said, if she starts talking about the crush with you, redirecting to work talk is fine. I assume you’re peers, and if she expresses her interest in moving up, it wouldn’t be out of line to point out that she needs to talk about such opportunities with her manager rather than you. If you have 1:1s and she asks her manager what she’d need to do to be promoted, it would be totally within the manager’s wheelhouse to say that she needs to stop with the unprofessional celebrity crush talk to even be considered for promotion.

  90. vacation!*

    Has anyone else had an SO join them at the end of a business trip for a vacation? What were the logistics — who paid for what, who did you tell (presumably at least whoever does the travel arrangements?), and that sort of thing? A business trip later this year is going to put me closer to my SO than we’ve been since March 2020, and I’ve already okayed having the company fly me back home later than everyone else, but I’m wondering what the professional norms are. For example, would it be a terrible idea to have my SO drive up the day before my last night in the hotel my company will be paying for, or should they definitely plan to arrive the next day? Also, presumably if I weren’t staying longer then the company would be covering, say, my taxi ride to the airport for my flight home – would it be typical for them to still cover that, or should I plan to pay for it? Obviously I can ask about reimbursement details and such, but I’d prefer to go into that kind of conversation knowing what’s typical…

    1. CTT*

      Definitely do ask in case your office handles this differently, but everywhere I’ve worked has been okay with the SO staying in the room that the company is paying for, but you would have to cover any additional costs they incurred (like if they ordered room service). And they should be okay with covering the taxi ride home; even if it’s on a different day, you still would have had to taken that ride at some point. I think a good rule of thumb is that anything that adds to the cost (SO’s meals, parking at the hotel for a separate car, etc.) they won’t cover, but if it won’t change the cost they are already incurring for you (like the single room with a king size bed), then it’s fine.

    2. SoloKid*

      My SO comes with me for almost all of my nice destination work trips and we tend to stretch out the stay into a vacation.

      – Company pays for my airfare (never had a problem with the dates extending past the business need), and SO and I split his flight costs.
      – Company pays for my hotel room and covers the nights needed for business. SO stays with me those nights (not like it would cost less without him there) then we split the hotel cost for the vacation part.
      – Company pays for all airport trips since it’s ultimately on them to get you to the business hotel and back home. The one time I took a taxi from much further away than the business hotel, I’ve just eaten that cost to avoid the hassle of mileage math.

      As for social norms with others during business events, my SO went off and did his own touristy things for the 2-3 days I spent networking. I never covered up that he was travelling with me (coworkers that shared a flight could see him lol) and it’s pretty clear through behavior that I wasn’t skipping networking to go hang around with him the whole time.

    3. Person from the Resume*

      Everything they would have paid for to get you home, they should still pay for only it occurs on a later date. They would pay for the taxi to the airport. If they are paying for you to stay alone in the hotel room then you SO can join you at no cost to you. Anything extra because of your SO or your extended stay is yours to pay for.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      My partner had a two-city business trip in the beginning of 2020 and I went. His agency paid for his flights and hotel rooms and gave him a per diem. I stayed with him but paid for everything else myself. Basically, anything the company would cover for you, submit for reimbursement. Hotel, rides to and from airport, your meals. Your SO can join you in the hotel and the taxi to the airport.

      As far as whom to tell… I don’t think my partner told anyone. It really wasn’t necessary. I did meet his work colleagues at the airport, but they didn’t blink. I paid for my own flights (we even took separate outbound flights so I could use miles) and didn’t spend any time at the meetings, so basically I was just another person hanging in the same city.

    5. ArtK*

      Company pays for my transport, meals, and lodging. I pay for anything beyond that.

      That said, many years ago I got sent to Japan twice in the same year. My wife objected strenuously and I managed to get the company to pay for the whole thing.

    6. OtterB*

      I think you have to ask about your company norms. My organization is pretty flexible and are explicit that:
      having an SO stay in the hotel the company is paying for is fine, but SO’s meals are on us. Things the company would have paid for anyway, like taxi back to the airport, are fine. If I park at the airport at home but stayed more days for the trip for personal time, I don’t expense the extra parking charges. Really, it’s mostly “is this costing the company more money.”

    7. Cookies For Breakfast*

      I took my partner on a long-haul work trip that we saw as a unique occasion to visit a large US city (true so far, we’ve not been to the US since).

      I wasn’t particularly senior and at the time I had only seen colleagues travel solo or with others from work (though I had seen others expense ridiculous things, like taxis from the office to clients 10 minutes walk down the road). The workplace culture was, in fact, family-friendly and relaxed. I mentioned to my grandboss that two of us would be travelling and we’d be staying the weekend, and he was fine with my plan.

      In practice, I could book my own flights and accommodation and expense them, and then received a lump sum for daily expenses. I expensed my flights and split the cost with Partner for his. Hotel wise, I’d have booked a double room even on my own, so it made no difference. Joint meals and transport were well within the lump sum work had transferred me, and any sightseeing he did while I was at work, he paid out of his own pocket. Local colleagues welcomed us attending a couple small, impromptu social occasions together, and we had lots of fun. However, I went to the big, office-wide, pre-booked and company-paid gathering on my own – I treated that as if it was work.

      I know of other colleagues that brought +1s along on trips after that, and never heard pushback, aside from one occasion (my controversial former manager brought someone he’d only just started dating to a big team event in another city, seemingly oblivious to all the signs he was about to get fired). In general though, at that workplace it was more common to arrange travelling with colleagues than on your own, and I think bringing Partner with me would have looked odd if others had been on the trip.

  91. The Ginger Ginger*

    Honestly I would just leave her alone about it. You don’t really have the personal or professional standing to address it with her. At best, you can try to steer her away from it when she starts talking about it (only because it makes you uncomfortable). Unless she asks you specifically for your thoughts on why she’s not getting promoted, I’d leave it. It’s not your problem to deal with.

  92. Internist*

    I’m an intern in a technical field. Low-stakes question: I’m required to attend a lot of meetings where technical topics are discussed that I know noting about. (My team works on multiple projects and some are very high level, and I wouldn’t touch them for years even if hired.) I have a hard time paying attention in these meetings because they’re so far over my head. Even when I resolve to take notes and Google terms I don’t know, I quickly get lost in technical terms and acronyms. Any suggestions for getting something out of these meetings?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Make your notepaper into 2 columns. column 2 is actual notes. column 1 is list of terms to lookup , and phrases that seem to be keywords. Col1 go google after the meeting. Then it still looks like taking notes but you’re not struggling to try and parse it – just logging phrases that get said a lot. It might be worth talking to your supervisor about, be honest that you feel like youre missing a lot of content and ask if there’s review papers or other material that might be helpful to grasp the terminology.

      1. BlueBelle*

        This is great. You can also use it as an opportunity to identify the roles people play in the room. Who is the influencer, who is the decision-maker, and what are decisions based on? What kind of financial data is being given- by whom and to who. Who is assigning next steps and who is managing them. Who wants high level data and who wants details? Is the person presenting prepared for both?
        These are all great ways to help you prepare when you are leading meetings in the future.

    2. OyHiOh*

      This is the story of my current work life, to a degree. I provide communications and admin support to, well, basically all of the programs and projects my organization runs. Many of them are highly technical and, while I know more about them than I did when I started, there’s a lot of technical specification I don’t actually need to know. I objectively do not need to know the details of surveying plots for a housing project, I do need to know how many houses are being built. I objectively do not need to know the ins and outs of malfunctioning waste water treatment plants, I do need to know how many communities are being served by the waste water upgrades grant we’re administering. Etc. Because of the way my communications and support role works, I frequently need to be in the meetings where the technicalities are discussed, but I don’t necessarily need to understand 100% of the material covered.

      I do frequently find that gaining some overall understanding of the technical aspects of our projects and programs helps me communicate the story better. I keep two columns of notes. 1) related to the tasks I’ll actually complete to support the project and 2) terms/conditions I don’t understand, with a limit of no more than 3 to 5 items in this column, per meeting. Frankly, I don’t force myself to stay 100% engaged in high level meetings for their entire duration. I’ve found that if I listen, and multi task, I’m able to absorb a general sense of the project, and make sure I’m completely on task when the meeting eventually gets to the parts related to my tasks.

      Last, there have been several times recently when my boss has had me attend meetings that were really clearly outside the arena of my usual work. I struggled along for the first day, and then cornered him and asked why he was having me attend. He explained that from his point of view, they are “apprenticeship” towards my professional goals, and once he said that one sentence, a lot of his recent decisions on what I need to attend/participate in made a whole lot more sense!

    3. just another bureaucrat*

      One of the things might be to shift what you are trying to learn. What if you tried to focus on the dynamics of the room? How do the people interact? You might have someone who will calm the room down when it gets heated, or who likes to rile the room up. Or how can you tell someone is slow walking into a sensitive topic, or who rushes into something they don’t know will do that. Can you hear when something is missed, or someone’s voice isn’t being heard and should be.

      I don’t know what your role is as an intern, but I recently worked with someone who would frequently be in conversations that were WAY too technical and jargoney and her career path wasn’t going to go that way, but we talked a lot about how to manage the room and how to get people moving forward and the meeting management and people management skills which I think will serve her well in any role she gets. If you are going into more of the project management side that’s valuable.

      If you want to get more technical skills then I’d focus on one thing, the one thing that you want to grow in and just listen for that and try to build on that piece. If you’ve got someone else you work with asking if you can throw questions at them as you go might be useful but that can be a lot, that said if someone’s offered, take them up on it. I’ve always got a channel where when we invite folks without the background into a meeting they can ask questions and I can try to throw things that are background or informational as we go.

    4. Dinwar*

      First, do you actually need to be there? If so, why? These should be something you can discuss with your supervisor. If they’re way above your head it may be just “to get the bigger picture, to see where your work fits in.” I do that with our new hires on occasion. I don’t expect them to remember even half of what we’re talking about–what I want them to do is understand that what they do matters, so they 1) don’t feel discouraged, and 2) do it well, because they see what impacts it will have down the road.

      Second, as far as notes go, there are a few options I’ve tried. In college I’d pass notes to my wife. We had just started dating at the time, and were attending lectures on various geology topics, some of which were way outside my area of expertise. We’d pass notes about the talk back and forth. The professors were concerned, until they saw the notes and realized that we were actively listening, and probably getting more out of the lectures than anyone else.

      The second thing I do is doodle. I don’t necessarily mean random drawings–I sketch out what’s being discussed. This allows me to better track what’s being discussed, and to process the information that’s going by faster than I can catch it. A few times my doodles have been useful.

      Third? If you’re just there to listen, and you’re completely lost, learn to write random stuff while listening with half an ear. Not the most professional advice, I’ll grant you, but sometimes necessary. Some people have meetings just to have meetings, after all, and you need to look like you’re paying attention, but if you don’t it won’t matter at all once you leave the meeting. The trick is to identify where the line is.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      When my parent was sick and dying, I had to deal with lots of medical people…. and all the terminology. I would write down a term the way it sounded, so I could at least start to pronounce it. And then I would find other sources to learn what the term was after the conversation.

      I also learned that I had to pick up their slang- or short cut words. So ventricular tachycardia was “vtac”. I quickly grew to love, love, love the shorter words. I could pronounce them for one thing. Because I preferred to use the shorter terms I had docs asking me if I was a nurse. No, I am just bad a pronouncing longer words sometimes.

      Organize your new terms and organize the shorter version of that new term.

      Next. I take driver safety courses every three years. I’m sorry- but it’s super hard not to doze off in these courses.
      So what I do there is to challenge myself to find three things I did not know about driving. I have been driving for decades so this is challenging to find someone saying something I have not heard before. But conning myself by this challenge actually works, it helps me to pay closer attention.

      Putting everything together here. Why not challenge yourself to find three terms, see if they have a slang/shortened version of it and listen through the entire meeting for those three specific words. How often do they come up, what’s the surrounding context, what else do you notice?

      Next meeting, pick three more terms and follow those terms through the meeting.

      My wise friend used to talk about the whirlwind. Any new topic is a whirlwind of seemingly disjointed information. He said the way to approach the whirlwind was to nail down ONE thing and then see where everything else is in relationship to that one thing.

      I honestly don’t think this is about learning exactly what they are doing. I think this is about learning what you will do when placed in a situation that feels over your head. How will you handle that? How will you piece things together?

      If you stay in the situation and keep working it, you will find that “today” is the hardest it will ever be. Tomorrow, the next day and so on will be a tiny bit easier. But it’s by showing up repeatedly that this process starts and the barriers break down.

    6. Miel*

      You sound like me a few years ago! I literally fell asleep in team meetings as an intern. Lol.

      Tl;dr: if you’re in the first few weeks of your internship, it’ll get better quickly! Keep on learning and you’ll be fine.

      What I did:
      – get enough sleep at night so I wasn’t dozing off, lol
      – took notes the best I could, tried to learn acronyms and context outside of meetings
      – found a Company Acronym Dictionary (!!)
      – found a person a few years older than me who would honestly answer all my weird questions
      – read up on some background (oftentimes people have old slide decks they’ll share with you that explain a project background really nicely)
      – met with some colleagues 1:1 to learn more or ask specific questions
      – poked myself with a pin under the table to stay awake, or other fidget mechanisms
      – silently critiqued everyone’s wardrobes (a lot of my colleagues were wearing mismatched socks)
      – daydreamed
      – legitimately did learn a lot!

      Note: if the meetings are virtual, your fidget possibilities open wide up. I’ve heard good things about knitting and coloring.

  93. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    It’s probably a little too late in the day for many people to see this, but I wanted to share an example of the power of networking. I feel like my career has been a perfect illustration that networking = building a strong reputation and maintaining relationships, not schmoozing people over drinks at a networking happy hour!

    Shortly after I graduated from college, I was invited by a former internship supervisor to join the board of a small volunteer group. There, I met S who recruited me to join her organization (which was a career shift for me). S lobbied her boss extremely hard to hire me, and I was able to be very successful there. S left but we remained strong friends.

    After a while I changed jobs, and there I became close with coworker K. When I moved on from that job, we stayed in touch from time to time. When she heard I was looking to leave that job, she let me know about a posting at a company she knew about and happily served as a reference. I made it to the final stage but wasn’t ultimately selected for that role. However, both S and K were references when I did find my current position

    My current role isn’t working out so I’m looking to move on. S let me know about a position with her organization, and has been great at sharing the pros and cons about working there. Meanwhile, I have remained connected on LinkedIn with M, another board member from that little volunteer group way back at the start of my career. M posted a job opening on her page and we connected to chat about it. She shared the pros and cons, and encouraged me to apply. I’m still in process with both roles, but knowing some of the inside scoop makes me feel reassured that I’m not jumping into another toxic work environment, and I’ve been able to ask some of the questions that are important but don’t always come up in the early stages of an interview.

    None of these job postings were secret or something that I only found out about because of my network, but I’m glad to have a strong network so that I can get a better picture about a job before I take it. These people can also vouch for me and support my candidacy in informal ways; S isn’t on the hiring committee for the role with her organization, and M and I never formally worked together, but in both cases I imagine the hiring manager is interested to hear their impressions of me. S and K were able to be strong references when I didn’t have enough previous managers to list as references, and I’ve also passed opportunities along to them when my organizations have been hiring in the past.

    Finally, none of these are labor intensive relationships that are a burden to maintain – S and I are genuinely friends so we catch up a few times a year, and I will shoot a text or g-chat to K every few months to see what’s new with her and her family. M and I were never “friends” outside of the volunteer group, but we’ve stayed connected on LinkedIn so I had a familiarity with her career (and she with mine). And, all of this started with a recommendation from an internship supervisor who remembered me because I’d done a great job working for her. Bam, networked!

  94. Pascall*

    This is sort of at the bottom probably, but I just wanted to report that someone on LinkedIn was very kind in helping me restructure my resume and as soon as I did, I began to get interview after interview; I’m on a final round with at least 3 positions now, all offering more than $20k raises, and I’m optimistic. I believe I can get to a final with 2-3 others, if I don’t have an offer before long.

    If I can help others in any way, shape, or form, find work, please let me know. I’m not an official recruiter; I don’t do this for a living (and am not soliciting any paid services!), but I just know I’ve tried a lot of things to find work and I finally found a formula that is yielding some great results. I can’t promise anything, but if anyone really needs help finding a certain type of work, feel free to reply here! Not sure if we can share contact info here, but I’m happy to chat on the thread itself.

    1. irene adler*

      Can you offer some tips/suggestions? Or are you offering to work only on someone’s specific resume?

      1. Pascall*

        I’m happy to offer tips and suggestions in general to anyone! I may not be able to give nuanced answers (like if a web developer is searching for something super specific), but I can give some overall assistance if you have any questions.

        1. irene adler*

          How does one transition from a long work career in a small company ( 1000 people)? This is within the same industry.

          1. Pascall*

            I would 100% focus on skills you’ve developed and any increasing responsibility you’ve earned while you’re there. Are you looking to transition into a larger company? If that’s the case, then definitely hone in and talk about any skills you have with interdepartmental collaboration and teamwork with people inside and outside of your immediate work area. But if you’ve been in the same place for a long time, you’ll definitely want to discuss what you’ve learned in that time since employers will want to know you haven’t been stagnant and are looking to grow and learn. Have you done any professional development? That’s a good first step.

            1. irene adler*

              Yes, plenty of professional development.
              Four professional certifications.
              Three additional AA degrees.
              Plus various classes in lab skills.
              Grad school candidate (didn’t finish the thesis – long story – no point).
              Active in my professional organization: section secretary and I plan the meetings, procure speakers, etc.

              I’ll incorporate your suggestions about teamwork/collaboration. Thank you!!

              I don’t think they believe I do all the things I do when I explain that I’m the entire QC dept- paperwork + lab work, manage multiple programs (calibration, product stability), assist with QA both in the manufacturing area and with the paperwork, and now taking on the regulatory stuff like updating our Quality system to comply with regulations and submitting re-registration materials for our products in various countries.

              1. Pascall*

                It may help to incorporate measurables if you have them! It helps them visualize the amount of work that you do- so say you assist with QA for [insert number here ] items a day or week, or make [ insert number here ] updates to your system every month or few months, or talk about how many programs you manage in a number form instead of naming them all.

                Combining that with a good summary of your work without getting into EXCESSIVE detail (which can make your resume unwieldly and hard to read through), while using key words that you can find in the job descriptions positions you’re looking at will all assist with making yourself really stand out. You can go into more detail about your collaborative teamwork and work with multiple teams/labs in your cover letter too! And that should add some reinforcement.

                I hope that helps!

    2. Cheerful Cryptid*

      Please share the magic formula! Congrats on the nibbles and hope you reel in something prefect for you soon. :)

      1. Pascall*

        The biggest sort of overall tip on said “formula” I can give it providing good summaries of your positions and experience (which use important keywords that can be found in the job descriptions/postings for the positions you’re interested in) – while also providing METRICS and quantitative measurements of the work you’ve done. For example, I have data points on my resume that say the following about my current position:

        – Crafted SOP documentation and user guides for 6 interdepartmental teams, updating as new changes are made
        – Led 6 training sessions for HR Directors and HR Specialists to implement new and improved hiring and onboarding procedures
        – Performed QA testing and vetting of enhancements and improvements to HRIS applications for 3 system upgrades
        – Troubleshoot system issues for 5 10 job applicants per day via verbal or written communication

        Numbers and key performance indicators are good at catching the eye of hiring managers. So if you lack those, figure some out! Whether you’re in customer service, sales, admin/clerical work, etc., there’s always some kind of number you can provide on your resume.

      2. Pascall*

        My LONG DETAILED comment didn’t process right lol but if you take away one tip is that hiring managers love to see metrics, numbers, and key performance indicators on your resume. Whether you’re an admin assistant, doing clerical work, retail, customer service or support… If you can give them tangible data (help 20-30 customers/visitors per day, write 6-7 articles per week or month, assist with processing 2-3 invoices per day for 2-3 vendors, etc.etc.)

        Hiring managers love when they can visualize your actual performance and workload in a measurable way. Pair that with a good summary of your position using key words that can be found in the job descriptions or postings for the types of positions you want, and that’s an excellent combination that tells them exactly what they want to know.

  95. Remotely Working*

    What are some good ways to learn XML? I’ve learned a little bit on my own but want to be able to create well-formed XML documents and convert Word to XML. I’m interested in the publishing side of it specifically JATS XML.

    I only saw one XML course on LinkedIn learning and I don’t want to pay a lot of money for an online course. But I do need some structure to help me learn.

    1. PollyQ*

      w3schools has a free XML tutorial, although it may be too beginner for what you’re looking for. O’Reilly publishers also has a number of XML books that might help.

      1. JATS*

        seconding w3schools. I work with publishing XML and JATS and this plus examining actual JATS documents has been helpful and I know know it pretty well.

        Also just browse the tagging library, https://jats.nlm.nih.gov/publishing/tag-library/1.3/element/pub-elem-sec-intro.html and you can get a really good sense of how it works.

        It’s also helpful to have a good sense of markup languages generally (like html) which can also be learned in w3schools if you don’t know it already. If you want to expand to things like XSLT or schematron, it probably also helps to have a basic sense of programming.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      You might check out Coursera to see if they have any XML courses. I learned some R programming via a 10-course data science module. I needed the structure to help me learn too. Total cost was less than $200 (USD), I believe, and it was self paced/asynchronous with homework/project deadlines every week or few weeks, depending on the course.

    4. Eyes Kiwami*

      The Skillshare basic course was really easy to follow! I used a code from some YouTuber, seems like everyone has a free trial code so that would be good to get started with.

  96. Rage*

    I had posted some months ago about a situation at work where I was being targeted/sabotaged by a couple of colleagues (K & L). Last fall, K had tried to essentially write me out of my role (while our shared boss was on medical leave) by proposing it to grand-boss. L was reporting me to just about anybody with any sort of authority and also generally just being an a$$ to me.

    I am pleased to report that L is GONE. Terminated, ousted, given the boot, not coming back, 100% gone.

    K is not renewing her contract (or it is not being renewed; I’m not sure which) – she will be gone June 30. I don’t see her much, but when we do interact, I’m totally killing her with kindness and professionalism.

    However, I did learn that K did quite a bit of “poisoning” of me with some of my colleagues; at least 2 drank the Kool-Aid – but I believe those relationships have been repaired. (One of them actually came and told me that it was K who had started it, and apologized for buying into it, however briefly.) It seems that K did not feel that I was “qualified” to be in the role that I am, and expressed her reservations to our shared boss. Boss said “She has the skills to perform in the role, and I support her 100%.” That is what led to her attempts to oust me while Boss was on leave. Instead of, you know, maybe supporting me in areas that maybe I did need some assistance? But whatever, it doesn’t matter, it’s over now.

    HR has been super supportive of me during this entire debacle – plus I want to stay here and advance, so I’ve been ignoring one of my friends who has been telling me to file EEOC/Hostile Work Environment charges. And had a nice chat with our CEO last week who is so excited about the graduate program I’m in, and how I’m planning to use it to support my department (and advance within the org), and I have her blessing and support, so, yeah, things are looking good.

    Just yesterday, I was asked to join our Accreditation Team (which, if we’re being honest, I’m DEFINITELY not qualified for LOL – but I do have some skills that can be very useful to them) – so it’s kind of funny in an ironic sort of way. I agreed to join, but only if some changes to my current duties were made (because I literally cannot take on one more iota of tasks at this point). That will happen, so again, no complaints from this quarter.

    On the other hand, pretty sure Earth is in retrograde because everything else around me is falling apart. But that’s a story for the weekend thread. :)

    1. irene adler*

      This gives me hope that there are companies that recognize the value in good employees and support them. Glad you outlasted the “bad guys” too!

  97. Shiny*

    My company wants us all back two days per week. They’ve made a lot of investments in the office space, and we have team days, as we can’t fit all of us at once. It’s for collaboration and culture reasons, which is fine. But my role, which is the single largest group of employees, doesn’t actually collaborate internally. We are all longterm consultants embedded with the client, so our day to day work involves lots of client meetings, and very few interactions with our home organization (think government contractors).

    So that’s one issue. The other is that the few times I have gone in, I have received notification that someone in at the same time subsequently tested positive for COVID. I raised the issue with my boss, and he said not to worry too much over the next few weeks, and not to come in if I’m not comfortable. But I’m feeling a little bit anxious about what happens as we shift into the summer months and we’re expected to be in on our scheduled days more and more. It just seems a little high risk for no discernible benefit, based on my actual role. For what it’s worth, my colleagues at the client office have all be classified as full time remote as they ramp up their own return to work.

    Any suggestions for how I can continue to push back on this, while not coming across as not a team player? I just joined a few months ago, and my first client has been a bit rocky, so I also want to take opportunities to build a good reputation at my home organization. Do I just suck it up and take the risk?

    2. Miel*

      Sounds like a dumb policy, on multiple levels.

      Fwiw, my partner plays a sport in a league that’s very COVID-cautious, and every single week there’s been a COVID exposure at practice. Just where we are in the pandemic, I think :/

      Maybe take the next few weeks to work entirely at home, then reassess and hopefully have a bit more leverage to push back on the situation in the summer. Good luck.

  98. jane*

    How do I politely reject a very good job offer… just because I don’t like it enough to leave my current job? How do you word that?

    1. Pascall*

      You don’t have to be super specific – but you can tell them something akin to:

      “Thank you so much for the offer. After some consideration, I’ve decided that I’d like to stay where I am for the time being until I’m in a better position to move on. Thank you so much for your time.”

      Or, if there’s something to be negotiated, you can negotiate. Higher pay, flexibility, what-have-you. Otherwise you can keep it short and sweet, thank them for their time, and, if there are other opportunities you might consider, let them know that as well.

    2. MMB*

      I would simply keep it brief and polite. “Thank you so much for the offer, I’m genuinely flattered, but I’m not looking to leave my current position.”

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      “I really appreciate your offer and I think it’s more than fair, but after some careful thought
      I’ve decided to stay in my current position. Thank you for your time and I wish you the best.”

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      “After careful consideration, I don’t think I can accept this offer at this time. Thank you for taking the time to discuss the position with me. It was great to me all of your team.”

  99. Feddy Fed*

    Thoughts on how to capture multiple postings on your resume? Think military or USAID or similar, where you have multiple postings that last 1-3 years over the span of a career. Listing separately is tough to fit and makes you look like a job hopper, perhaps, but you’re not–it’s baked into the role. Do you condense the achievements into one entry on your resume? List each assignment separately (assignments often have different, but related, titles and responsibilities). Help!

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Commenter A nonny non for this* has a question upthread asking about how to list multiple positions at the same employer. I know the federal government is a whole different beast, but you may be able to tweak some of the suggestions to work for you.

    2. Rick Tq*

      You worked for one entity for your career so even moving every 2 years doesn’t look like job hopping, especially in fields where relocations are part of the package. I was in the US Navy for 6 years but would only list my last rank, duty station, and assignment there. Nothing about all the other places I was assigned or lower ranks.

      I suggest only including Major achievements or awards from early assignments and focus on the last 4 years or so. Really focus on resume items that show you are qualified for the job you are applying for.

  100. Fairness*

    AAM Community – what is the fairest way to re-assign your direct reports to new work? I manage a team of 5 and I’m heading on some big new projects that would require 2 new headcounts, and I want 2 of my existing people to transition and hire 2 additional people to fill their roles.

    What is the fairest way to “pick” between your team members? I know all 5 of them would be interested in doing something different, as they’ve all been in the role between 2-5 years. Is seniority a fair way?

    1. Pascall*

      I would say that you’ll want to consider 1) seniority 2) who has shown an interest in taking on more responsibility 3) who is performing well at their current job.

      All three of those should factor in. If you have the best case scenario where all five of your employees are excellent at their jobs and ALL want to move upwards, then yes, I think seniority would be the fairest way, otherwise you may have some resentment from older employees who feel as though they’ve put in more time with the company and are not being rewarded for it.

    2. Cheezmouser*

      I’m assuming that getting to work on these new projects would be considered a big opportunity by your direct reports (aka the new project isn’t drudgery that needs to be done, but rather a growth opportunity or a highlight that they could add to their portfolio or work history).

      If that’s the case, then I’d pick based on a combination of performance level, skills, and what the project requires. Seniority could be a factor, but I wouldn’t let it be the sole deciding factor. For example, maybe Jane is in the middle of the pack seniority-wise but is by far your top performer. Would she feel overlooked/undervalued if you gave this opportunity to Sarah, who is higher ranked but is lower performing? Or maybe the project requires someone with strong analytical skills, which would be Gina on your team, even though Gina is more junior. Could this be Gina’s opportunity step up to the plate and earn that promotion? Or maybe the project is already stacked with managers and what you really need a more junior staff member to handle the administrative tasks and coordination, so that means Julian, your lowest-ranking direct report.

      Whatever you decide, you should have clear, defensible reasoning, which usually means something tied to performance or project needs, in addition to seniority.

    3. PollyQ*

      IMO, you should do it on merit, so that the people who get the opportunities would be the ones most qualified to handle the tasks. If that’s somehow not possible, or everyone’s got more or less the same qualifications, then seniority seems like an OK criterion.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      For me when I supervised, I would pick from the most productive people who were the most likely to catch problems at the earliest point. On new projects I could plan that things would go wrong- it was highly valuable to me to have people in place with eagle eyes.

    5. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Definitely agree with everyone, consider technical ability, reliability, seniority, etc.

      To make it less arbitrary, setup a rubric for each area, define what low/high scores are in each area, and then score each of team member. Not forced ranking. And, for those who don’t get the new projects, coach them in the areas they fell short in.

  101. ahhh*

    I have a tough situation going on at work. I admire my boss and how he’s handling things. The situation in my opinion is more high school gossip level in the workplace. It’s nothing that I did but I am “collateral damage”. I don’t want to go into details for anonymity but let’s just say my boss is addressing the situation head on but it will take some time to work through. I am having a hard time with how to react to this situation. Coworkers and friends have been supportive.

    I have a former mentor who I admire greatly. This mentor has gone through a similar situation and I would like to get their advice. The thing is because of our small industry and small geographical area, my mentor knows all the people involved and has even at some point worked with them. I trust my mentor to be diplomatic. I also view my mentor as a friend and vice versa (yes this is a conversation we have had).

    Is it wrong for me to stress that my coming to him for advice needs to be confidential?

    1. PollyQ*

      No, not at all! No reasonable person would have an issue with that request. Do be sure to say it up front, giving a little bit of context, so that they have the choice of opting out before you tell them, but I think you’ll be fine.

    2. Filosofickle*

      I don’t think it’s ever wrong to say “this is extra sensitive please keep it between us”. Frame it as “Of course I trust you to do so” if that feels better. Once in a while someone calls this out and I always appreciate it — not that I was planning to blab, but we don’t always perceive things at the same level of sensitivity so it’s helpful to me when they state their need. Nothing really goes without saying IMO.

    3. ahhh*

      Thanks to all who replied! It’s a hard situation for me as people I thought were work friends had negative opinions/ people I thought were mere acquaintances have been a great support. I feel topsy turby! In addition I keep going over things in my mind. Things like – if I had only stood up for myself, if I had only mentioned ABC, even though the situation would probably still have occured regardless. Thank you all for your advice.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Go easy on you. It takes time to figure out what is what.
        Remind yourself that you ARE standing up for you now.
        You can make a vow not to let a similar thing go on so long again- if that feels supportive to you.

        Def contact your mentor.

        And heads up, they probably already know everything you are going to say. It’s okay. That’s a good thing- it will bump you up to a stronger and broader relationship with your mentor.

  102. Garnet, Crystal Gem*

    Hey folks! I’m finding myself in a scenario pretty similar to the lw in the “my coworker treats me like I’m their boss” letter.

    But there’s a twist. Though my coworker has asked for my input and validation multiple times, privately…she also acts as if she’s threatened or in competition with me in public forums. Interacting with her is giving me whiplash.

    An example:
    Early on, during a project she mentioned that “we” should take more initiative. I found the comment odd, but I agreed and put together a roadmap for both of us. Immediately after sharing her behavior in public forums for the project—Slack channels, meetings, etc. shifted. It was like everything was a race and she had to get there first.

    She’d rush to answer questions, even ones seemingly directed at me in meetings. Seconds after someone shared a post that would need input she’d respond and often positioned herself as the point contact. Words and phrases I’d use to describe work in 1:1s, would suddenly be spouted in meetings as if they were her own.

    She also started behaving as if this collective effort we were working towards…was her project and everyone else were just stakeholders to help.

    I raised this with my therapist and she encouraged me to just observe, and I have, but I’m wondering if I need to create more distance between myself and this person.

    Yesterday we presented work together—not my idea, she invited me to co-present and again, when folks had questions about the designs she swooped in to answer. My involvement in the project has been marginal for the past month or so (other projects on my plate) so I didn’t really mind this, but I’m not sure why I’m continuously being asked to provide input and share as a collaborator, if she wants full ownership over the project?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      “, but I’m not sure why I’m continuously being asked to provide input and share as a collaborator, if she wants full ownership over the project?”

      She can’t do it without you.

      She’s a credit stealer. She does not want to do the hard work but she wants all the credit for a job well done. She’s using you, she is just going to keep taking your best stuff and presenting it as her own. But reality is that she’s “got nothing”. If you don’t tell her she won’t or can’t figure it out on her own.

      You can:
      1) stop giving her fodder

      2) publicly correct her, “well actually that was something “*I* was showing you when we chatted the other day”.

      3) I would definitely just put distance between you and her.

      Remember the rule of three. If you see a given behavior three times, it’s okay to address it in some manner even if it is just quietly changing what you are doing. I dunno how long your therapist thinks you should just “watch her”, but you do not need years of proof on people’s behavior- three instances is enough.

    2. pancakes*

      It seems like there is some room for you to pull back from this woman without being inappropriately distant. When you “found the comment odd, but I agreed and put together a roadmap for both of us,” for example – what if you responded to odd comments like that with something noncommittal (“oh, that’s interesting”) and didn’t start working on a roadmap? Similarly, can you decline when she asks you to co-present things?

  103. Feeling the burn*

    Any advice on handling ADHD and anxiety in the workplace (outside of therapy/medication)?

    E.g.:
    -Needing to care about tasks to be productive, but getting frustrated/emotional/burned out when manager disagrees on XY aspect (we have different areas of experience and sometimes I know X will work better than Y, but it takes time for my manager to come around—-or they never do and just want to “test it out” no matter the result)
    -Getting impatient during long meetings, especially when they are spontaneous/unplanned
    -Reacting too quickly to others’ ideas because I have already calculated the logistics in my head (which comes across as abrupt/negative instead of the carefully reasoned)
    -Losing track of things between multiple planners, calendars, to-do apps, etc. because different tasks are recorded differently
    -Remembering to do little things regularly
    -Annoying others by asking detailed questions about things that could wait for a more opportune time but make me anxious when unresolved
    -Chronic lateness

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Kanban boards. Physical wall list of a kanban board.

      Timers on my phone, reminders that pop up.

      physical paper planner organizers.

      All the post it notes and color coded ones.

      Excel sheet schedule with hourly goals.

    2. RagingADHD*

      First, if you aren’t medicated (or it isn’t working enough) you need to do anything you can to reduce the physical effects of stress and increase your brain’s ability to cope. The top 3 most powerful non-medical interventions for the brain are

      1) Sleep quantity and quality.
      2) Eating more plants and less processed foods.
      3) Getting moderate exercise in natural light and green space, on most days. (Like a walk where you can see trees and grass).

      Reducing stress and increasing your brain’s ability to self-regulate will help a lot with impulse control (reacting too quickly, getting impatient, annoying questions) and with working memory (keeping track of things).

      I also recommend keeping one paper notebook that you keep with you and write everything in. Everything – appointments, meeting notes, to-dos, dates, contact info, etc. Also use your digital systems, but the notebook serves as an external backup, and the movement of physically writing it down gives your brain an additional anchor to retrieve things when it needs them.

      The notebook is also a handy place to write down questions. You will be less anxious / insistent about asking them when you know they won’t get lost.

      For lateness, set an alarm for when you need to start getting ready, and another for 5 minutes before you should leave. Then build margin (at least 10 percent) into your travel time allowance.

      In order to set those margins and alarms accurately, you will need to assess the real length of time it takes you to get ready and travel where you’re going – not the time if “should” take, but what usually winds up happening IRL.

      For recurring habits, train them one at a time by linking them to an existing routine or habit, even if the existing habit is unrelated. So if you always get coffee first thing and need to do X every morning, find a way to build a reminder about X into your coffee habit. Put a note in your mug, for example.

      Hope those help.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        So very much agree with rest. Go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time every day. I had to even move to getting up and going to bed on weekends at the same time. It helped me to be less grumpy and more patient with others. How much of my lack of patience was with my own self? I will never know.

        An odd surprise I had with this method was that I so very much looked forward to bed time. I allowed myself to read if I could not sleep, but sometimes I just laid in bed and made mental lists of things I was grateful for. I was so grateful for the bs of the day to just be over.

        My punchline here is find activities that do comfort you. Keep it simple and easily accessible so that you are able to do them routinely. My quiet time started at 9 each night. I progressed from looking forward to this quiet time, to FINALLY understanding that the chaos at work reminded me too much of my home life growing up, hence I was a bundle of nerves. Find that calming activity and keep doing it- you might be surprised where such a simple thing can lead.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      For me, I have work bullet journal where I keep Daily Task Logs. (People think Bullet Journaling is about making things pretty, but the core method super helps me.) I also use my work calendar. I use no other tools, because they overwhelm me.

      I’m a huge fan of the Pomodoro Technique, which keeps me working on task throughout the day.

      As for meetings, I have this trick where I take super detailed notes in meetings to keep me occupied and I count to ten before I answer or respond to a comment. If I have thoughts, I often write them down first and then say them out loud to buy gap time. The other thing is that often if I keep my mouth shut, someone else will bring up a concern that’s super close to mine, so I don’t always have to be the negative one.

      Lastly, I will say, that my anxiety brain weasels tell me that if I don’t say something “In the Moment” than “Bad Things Will Happen” and I’ve had to work hard to remind myself that it’s usually not the case.

  104. Need a Raise*

    I got a considerable raise (based on merit) in September. However, inflation has made the cost of living almost unmanageable on my salary. Gas is almost $6 USD a gallon in my area!

    Is it too soon to ask for another raise?

    1. Need a Raise*

      Forgot to mention my company is fully remote and we all live in different parts of the country. I would be the only coworker representing my city if I asked for a cost-of-living raise.

    2. Filosofickle*

      Depends on your relationship with your manager, maybe you could ask if you could ask? Feel it out? But honestly I wouldn’t think it likely to get two raises in one year. Unless your company has a strong policy around COL tying to actual COL.

    3. Can't think of a funny name*

      Have you looked to see what the market rate for your job is? Are you underpaid? If so, bring it up that way. I don’t think complaining about the cost of gas when you are fully remote is going to be a good angle.

  105. Llama Wrangler*

    I have a new job, and I am planning on giving my boss notice on Tuesday – my company asks for four weeks notice from managers. My proposal to him will be for me to work two weeks, take the week of vacation I had scheduled, and then work two more weeks. He is already not happy about my week of vacation* and I’m worried he’ll say I need to cancel my scheduled vacation.

    I am absolutely not going to cancel the planned vacation – I will resign before the vacation if it comes down to it (technically just under two weeks notice, since I’m informing him on a Tuesday), but I’d love any scripts to get through that conversation beyond “I’m not able to change my planned travel, so if you are not able to accommodate my scheduled vacation my last day will have to be 5/27.” Ideally something that emphasizes how willing I am to work with them on the transition and ensure my team is well set up after I leave, and that two weeks will really not be sufficient to do that.*

    *For context, my current boss is actually my grandboss – my previous boss approved my vacation before he left, and grandboss (current acting boss) feels like he shouldn’t have done that, since the total request was two weeks of telework and then one week of vacation.** Part of why I really want to give four weeks is that the role my (ex) boss vacated will hopefully be filled by then, and I can pass things off to the new person in that role. With the role vacant, there’s really no one to take on projects, and a lot of stuff will be left open. (I can document to the best of my ability, and maybe even appoint an interim llama wrangler from my team, but it will be a rough transition with only two weeks.

    **We currently have a hybrid schedule – I’d been going in one day a week, but was just informed yesterday apparently everyone is supposed to be in two days a week (something my ex-boss neglected to tell me before he left). Outside of an important partner meeting that got scheduled during the week of my vacation (why my current acting boss is pissed, even though it wasn’t booked when the PTO was approved), there is nothing I would need to do in the office. But grand boss (current acting boss) is very much a butts in seats kind of person.

    1. Llama Wrangler*

      Should add because I imagine it will come up – it’s not feasible to give notice on Monday instead of Tuesday, unless I do it in writing, which I don’t want to do. Because current acting boss (grandboss) is a big wig, he’s only available for [previously scheduled meetings, and I don’t even know if I have his number.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      “Hi Boss, I need to give you my resignation, I got a job offer I couldn’t say no to. I have a week of PTO scheduled date to date that I cannot cancel, but I can work the 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after that trip.”

      I think everything else is overthinking it. They may or may not want you to work the final 2 weeks, that’s out of your hands. Document what you can. It’s unlikely they’ll hire someone in those 4 weeks.

      1. Llama Wrangler*

        What does documenting it look like in this case? (Part of what I’m wondering is that handbook says they’ll pay out PTO if I give 4 weeks notice, and not for less. Not enough money to make me cancel my vacation, but enough money that I’d like it!)

    3. Ama*

      I think your proposal is perfectly reasonable, and since it sounds like your department is pretty shorthanded your grandboss would be extremely petty not to accept it. I think if you just calmly state that you won’t be able to cancel your vacation so this is the arrangement you can make to give four weeks and hopefully still be here when your boss’s position is filled, he’s not really going to have much choice. At this point if he tries to insist on you canceling your vacation and you are willing to walk over it there’s not a lot he can do to you.

      1. Llama Wrangler*

        He is showing himself to be pettier and pettier every day, I just also want to make sure that I don’t leave a bad taste in the mouth of my colleagues and team, and don’t want to walk around badmouthing him. Is it fair to say to people: “I’d have love to have stayed longer, but [boss] requested my last day be [x]”? Or does that sound like I was fired?

        1. Not So NewReader*

          What people think is not under our control, you can let go of that part and just say something that is inline with how you would like to end things. I go with something super vague such as, “This is the notice period we both agreed to.”
          You can also pretend to mishear the question, “That’s right, I will be here until xday/ydate. That is my last day.” Then wander off or redirect the conversation.

  106. WorkerBee*

    I’ve started work on a large project involving multiple departments and subcontractors. One of my first tasks is to find some ways to improve communications within the project and between the project and customers. I’ve noticed that several of the people on the project who are below the senior level seem unclear on milestone dates, how their work (building handles?) interfaces to other groups’ work (building spouts?), etc. Other than adding more meetings – which no one like – what are some effective strategies to help keep everyone informed?

      1. ferrina*

        Yes! I love a Gantt chart!

        Also regular updates in communication, calling out individuals responsible for delivering. “Katie is waiting on James to finish building the handle before she can mold the teapot body- @james, can you get that to Katie by Friday?”
        I’d make sure that there’s a single master reference point- this can be project management software or an update email. Whatever it is, keep it updated and share it at relevant meetings.

    2. TechWorker*

      My company uses smartsheet for this sort of thing. But if senior people know the deadlines and the junior people doing the actual work don’t, that feels like a communication problem rather than a project management problem?

    3. WorkerBee*

      The question is really broader – what’s the best way to cascade information to a large team without annoying everyone by using up too much of their time or making them work for the information they need?

  107. Cheerful Cryptid*

    Back in February, my company had a meeting in which they brought up inflation and consideration for significant salary adjustments in this year’s review cycle but stressed that it would be determined by position. Due to the nature of my department and position, I had the feeling that I would be forgotten if I didn’t speak up. My position is pretty unique even within the subset of our industry, but I did the best I could with research for what I thought I should be making and put together documentation of the ways in which our department has morphed and grown in ways that have impacted my scope of work. Technically a lot of these changes qualifying me for a raise started a few years ago, but we had layoffs, covid, upper management reshuffling, etc. which made it seem very tone-deaf and even risky to bring it up.

    By mid-February I had a call with my boss, who totally agreed with me and actually said that they had gone to bat for me re: being underpaid at last year’s review time, but was roundly ignored. This time, I suggested she bring this to HR and asked whether a title change would help justify a raise (not that that should need to be a thing in 2022, but. Well.) I was clear that this was about my position changing and that I was not simply asking for an expedited merit/COLA increase before everyone else. Boss was more than happy to do this for me.

    I did not hear a peep, until last month, wherein Boss copied me on an email to HR saying that a new title and significant raise was agreed upon by her and Grandboss and could they please get a move on this before our review cycle (late summer, company-wide)?

    Still nothing from HR or my boss or anyone. I don’t even know if HR replied privately to my boss regarding the email I was copied on. At this point I am happy to have been heard, very glad that my first time ever initiating a request for a raise went smoothly, and I do dearly appreciate my boss, but it has been three months since I asked and only one sign of movement. At this point I am really hoping it happens before the review cycle because I want my years-overdue adjustment in addition to my merit/COLA increase!

    Is it normal for this to take this long? Am I being impatient, or should I be making the effort to check in more often? (I’m not looking to threaten to leave, or anything– I’m not even really job searching or anything.)

    1. TechWorker*

      I’m sure it varies widely by company, but it is totally reasonable to at least ask your manager if they ever heard back from HR/whether there’s any update on the timeline.

      You also don’t have to threaten to leave to make it clear that this matters to you… you could say something like ‘I’m really invested in working here and I want to stay! I was really pleased to hear that you and grandboss agree I deserve a raise and title change, do we have a timeline on that yet?’
      Most managers ought to hear the subtext of ‘I want to stay but the raise is part of keeping me’? Or varying levels of more direct than that – basically if you are a strong performer you can afford to imply they need the raise to keep you without risk they’ll assume you’re threatening or on the way out I think…

    2. Cheezmouser*

      Have you already asked for an update? If your boss and grandboss already approved the raise, then it definitely shouldn’t take HR 3 months to process it. In my company, such things take 1-2 pay periods, so 3 months would be excessive. The only scenarios I could think of as to why there’s a hold up is if there are other things going on, like a company-wide salary freeze or a complicated reorganization happening in the background. (i.e. it would be awkward timing to announce your promotion if they are also preparing for a round of layoffs.) Or sometimes there are other promotions in the works so the bosses are holding onto the info until all of them are processed and they can make the announcement at the same time.

      Bottom line: no, in a high-functioning company under normal times, 3 months is not normal for an already-approved promotion or raise to go through. But is your company high-functioning and/or going through normal times? It definitely isn’t unreasonable to ask for an update after 3 months.

      1. Cheerful Cryptid*

        I had not asked for an update, but my bass copied me on that email to HR a month ago. I was wondering if perhaps they were delaying it until the review cycle, which starts next month.

        Our company did have a freeze in 2020, and many layoffs before Covid (2017-2019ish), but none recently. Last year we received modest raises (by which I mean they didn’t even keep up with inflation, let alone missing a year of raises). This year the company is doing much better and, as mentioned above, are looking at doing salary adjustments upwards for a number of people. The only thing I can think of is that they have to create a new position to give me the title we’ve discussed, but they don’t have to replace my current position, the tasks would just be folded into the new title expectations.

  108. Anon today*

    Re # 3: Did anyone else’s office take advantage of everyone suddenly working from home and decide to remodel the entire building, top to bottom? Sure, it was probably way easier to do that with no one in the building, and sure, a lot of those improvements were long overdue, but as part of this plan, no one has their own space anymore. It is entirely hot desking and hoteling now. Seems no one wants to come back in regularly or at all with this new office format.

    I really miss my old space. I would have still wanted to come back for a few days a week, even if I would be in a different spot, but to not have my own space at all seems untenable.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      My office used my office as storage for months while we were remote. Excavating 3 desks inside it took forever and I spent a month in the cube farm until they found homes for all the crap that was in there.

    2. Filosofickle*

      It’s a real Catch 22. Given a choice, enough people don’t want to be onsite full time that companies can’t justify a dedicated space for each employee. But the hoteling makes it even less likely that people want to come in! I wouldn’t go in for a hot desk. (I went through all this pre-pandemic, trying to do half time in the office and hating it.)

      There are real advantages to what the choices they are making. Going to flexible workstations lets them put more head count in the same/less square footage so they can grow without new space. Plus removing private spaces makes room for the huddle / team / social spaces that people DO want when they come in. For many types of offices the usage is shifting from workstations and a place for heads down work to a place where people come in to socialize and collaborate then go home to do heads down work.

      Honestly, I think hybrid can be the worst of both worlds. I’m sure there are ways to do it better but we’re not there yet. The only way it would work for me is if my company was willing to give me dedicated space AND the social spaces AND the ability to work at home most of the time. But companies won’t / can’t pay for that.

      1. Ama*

        Regarding your last paragraph, before the pandemic my husband’s work was truly hybrid — they had an office but people were allowed to manage when they wanted to come in, for the most part people would come in on days when internal meetings were scheduled (but even that wasn’t a requirement, they’ve always had fully remote employees so there was always a way for people to attend meetings remotely). But I think the key was that everyone was trusted to decide for themselves when it was worth it to come in and when to stay at home, and I also think it helped that it was a pretty small tech company and a lot of the management had never worked in a traditional, butts-in-seats job so they just didn’t have that mindset (there have been a lot of other growing pains as the company has grown and the managers have to spend more time people managing and less time doing actual product work, but sniping at people because they aren’t in the office enough isn’t one of them).

        I do think you are right that most companies, both in structure and the type of people they employ as managers are just not ready yet to accept that a truly hybrid workplace means being comfortable with a considerable amount of autonomy on the part of your employees.

      3. Prospect Gone Bad*

        semi-related, one time recently I went to the office and one other person was there and he was all “oh, you’re here. Oh, I thought I was going to be the only one here today.” All weird like I was in his house. I think people forgot why we go to the office! I guess I need to inform everyone if I’m going there because their not being alone is apparently triggering

    3. Dinwar*

      My office tried. We rebelled. Fortunately we had some hard-hitters rebelling with us. Basically we informed the Powers that Be that if they wanted to keep an office here–and to be clear, most of us like coming into the office!–there WILL be places for us. If not, well, most of us have experience (due to the nature of the job) working remotely. I think it’s a horrible idea, myself, given what we do, but it’s what was on the table.

      I think a lot of companies are going to be in for very rude reminders of why offices exist, in the near future. Things like expensive equipment, or secure storage for sensitive information (not “Top Secret” or Classified or anything–most of us work with sensitive information every day), and the like are issues that have not been given anywhere NEAR adequate thought in the rush to make WFH possible. The IT issues alone are horrific–the fact that we were able to continue working these past two years is a testament to the indominable spirit and incredible ingenuity of our technology-oriented folks! The pandemic caused us to lean way too hard into remote work, without developing the proper infrastructure–legal, psychological, or physical–necessary for it to transition from a short-term bandaid to a long-term societal norm.

      1. KR*

        And it just takes so much time IMO. To get in the office and get set up and get everything how you like it and have to lug it all around and reset up all your wires every day is so irritating to me. Laptop docks make it a bit easier but I like having my own space.

      2. Filosofickle*

        It’s a good callout. One of the reasons we’re struggling is we’re trying to graft hybrid on top of existing structures. What we need to do is rethink offices / work from the ground up based on current needs.

      3. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Coworkers and I suggested desk share. Not a full hoteling situation, but 2 people assigned to 1 desk. We would coordinate between ourselves who needs to be on site. So far there are enough cubicles (and a high enough rate of community transmission in our county) that they have temporarily given up on hoteling.

  109. TechWorker*

    I wrote in with good news, so I won’t repeat myself, but I asked for a raise and got one – a big one! Commenters here were helpful in giving me the courage to ask :)
    (I’ve told my partner and my dad but obviously no-one at work and it feels odd as a thing to tell my friends – but I’m super happy about it)

  110. Me!*

    Situation: Zoom interview with an out-of-state AEC company for a small operations team, just a boss and two reports—this includes the person they’re hiring. Company has about 200 employees total.

    Interview: April 20. Interview went pretty well; job sounded like a good fit; teammate and boss seemed nice and reasonable; job could start remotely. The job is things I can do plus things I like to do, and boss said they foster growth and development. Benefits on their website sound decent. They were at the beginning of the process but they jumped on my application, which I took as a good sign.

    I gave a number for a starting salary I could live with based on my experience and the market rates for the area. No idea if they can live with it. Although the job can be remote—Teammate is in another state entirely—except for quarterly meetings, I told them I very much wanted to relocate to the state where the job is and work hybrid. It’s in a high-COL city, although I said I was fine with a commute from the (slightly cheaper) outlying area if it wasn’t too long. In fact, that would be perfect, since I would be in between their in-state offices.

    I sent an email following the interview that reiterated how very interested in the job I was (excited, not gushy). Teammate responded favorably to it.

    Follow-up: May 5. I sent a follow-up email saying I was still interested and did they have any updates on the process. Teammate said they were finished with interviews and would be deciding on the candidate by the end of this week. It is Friday of this week. No word.

    Question: Do you think no word means I didn’t get it? I’m afraid I asked for too much money and blew it. :'(

    Please please please let me get it.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Might just mean they needed someone else to sign off on it or HR is slow or someone was absent and reviewing it. I wouldn’t panic for another week. Good luck!

      1. MechanicalPencil*

        Totally agree. I’ve got coworkers in and out of the office because of end of school year parties and graduations and the like. It’s definitely slowed down some processes.

    2. PollyQ*

      Remember Alison’s mantra: Everything in hiring takes longer than you’d think and longer than they say. Everything. So, maybe you got the job and maybe you didn’t, but the fact that they haven’t gotten back to you now means nothing. See if you can mentally unplug for the weekend, and then plan to do something thowards hunting for other openings on Monday.

      1. ferrina*

        This. There are always things that can happen, both good and bad, and most of the process will be completely out of your control. It sounds like you’ve done everything perfectly, but that doesn’t mean that you got the job or that you didn’t get the job.
        Reasons I haven’t gotten back to the candidate on time:
        -Interviews took longer than I thought
        -A hire-up suddenly wanted to interview a few candidates as well
        -We revisited the job description and were suddenly looking for slightly different criteria
        -We realized we needed two people in that position and we were figuring out which two candidates had skills that best complemented each other
        -A position was frozen indefinitely and I wasn’t allowed to tell candidates

        There’s no way you can tell from the outside, so try not to think about it and distract yourself with something else.

  111. Anecdata*

    If it helps — you aren’t obligated to tell your boss you’re leaving because of the workload, especially if you think they won’t handle it well. You can just go with the “I wasn’t planning to leave but an opportunity that was just too good to pass up came along” bland exit interview strategy if you want.

    Because you’re in a leadership role, I think it would be a really good thing if you felt comfortable saying something about the work life balance – sometimes hearing it from leavers is the only way it gets though – but you’re not /obligated/ to, especially if you think they might sabotage your new offer, etc.

    Re the broader question — the more senior leadership position you have, the more responsibility you have to help the company on a strategic and long term level, and sometimes this /can/ mean attempting to change a culture above you – but usually this means things like going to your boss’s boss if there are serious problems, or flagging risks to the company that a more junior person could decide are none-of-their-business (eg. VP who reports to SVP and are in a relationship things), or having productive-but-uncomfortable conversations (“boss, you send emails at 2am all the time and it makes the team feel like they have to respond. Can we {solution, solution}?”). But the flipside is, your leadership earns that candor and risk-taking by responding well — not that you have to stay indefinitely when they’ve already demonstrated they’re not going to change!

  112. Uncertain interviewee*

    How would you answer a interview question about how you handle ambiguity?

    I didn’t end up taking the job because it seemed like their organisation was a unorganised mess but this question really threw me.

    1. Ama*

      Honestly I’d probably ask for a little more clarity on what kind of ambiguity they meant. Ambiguity in the sense of actual project work, in that sometimes the answer is unclear and you just have to decide a way forward without clear evidence that your way is correct, that I could handle. Ambiguity in the sense of me being required to ask people “which one of these options, A or B?” and getting back the answer “Yes,” — is one of the reasons I’m looking to get out of my current job, actually.

    2. RagingADHD*

      I’d say “it depends.”

      Not just to be snarky (though maybe a little on the inside). I don’t think it’s an accident that the question itself is ambiguous, so my approach to the question would mirror my approach to an ambiguous work situation.

      I’d ask to hear more context about what types of situations they’re talking about. Then I’d talk about different ways to approach it–most of the time, that would involve taking advice from supervisors or collaborating with teammates to get as much context as possible about the needs of the client or stakeholders involved, and a sense of the best possible outcome vs other acceptable outcomes and undesirable outcomes.

      If it’s a situation where a decision needs to be made quickly with limited information, I’d use my discretion and knowledge of general standards and practices.

      1. ferrina*

        That’s the best answer!

        If you get asked this again, I might give an example of a time when you dealt with ambiguity. What did you do, why did you do it that way, and how did it turn out? So- “After a sudden restructuring in my department, I found myself as the sole person with multiple jobs. First, I mapped out a plan of how this could be done and how long it could be done for, including what deadlines could be adjusted. Next, I met with my VP (who was my nearest direct supervisor). We went over the plan. She was really grateful that I had put this together, since she hadn’t yet had the time, and we were able to come to a workable resolution.”

        But yeah, that feels like a yellow flag question, and I’d def be asking myself what they mean by “ambiguity.” Usually that means “we won’t actually tell you anything, then either blame your for missing deadlines while you wait for us or we’ll punish you when you take your best guess and it goes wrong.”

    3. Cheezmouser*

      I’d think about what they’re really looking for with this question. Probably something to do with how I approach problems, what’s my process for tackling difficult projects with little-to-no guidance, am I able to think critically, am I resourceful or do I need hand holding, etc. So I’d probably answer with my process for seeking clarity.

  113. halfwolf*

    anyone have any experience writing a cover letter for a new job at their current organization? my job may be opening up a position that is exactly what i want to pivot to, doing work that i have already been helping out with. the person who currently does most of that work wants to transition to doing different, but related work, and that on top of her current role would be too much for one person, hence why they might create this new role. assuming they do, i’ll have to apply with a resume and cover letter and wanted to know if anyone had any tips!

    1. Dasein9*

      I have. It was kind of pleasant, since I wasn’t using the letter to introduce myself so much as using it to demonstrate how my background would make me a good fit for the role. I used the opportunity to highlight some experience that my coworkers and management probably didn’t know I had and was able to go into a bit more depth, since everyone who read it already knew me.

      Best of luck!

      1. halfwolf*

        thanks so much! i’m not terribly worried about it (though the stakes of the cover letter are a bit higher than they otherwise would be, because the job is a writing job) but i’ve been struggling a bit with to frame it in my own mind, so this is helpful.

    2. ferrina*

      Yep. Like Daesin9, I used it to highlight experience that they didn’t know I had (in my case that included experience from that company that the hiring manager didn’t realize that I had. )
      Mine was for a leadership position, so I also included a couple initiatives that I wanted to bring to the team and how that would increase value for the company.

      1. halfwolf*

        thanks so much! as i mentioned in my other reply, this is helpful to get me in the correct frame of mind for eventually writing this. i do work occasionally with the (likely) hiring manager, and i work even more closely with the department head, but there are still probably things about my background (and even some of the work i’ve done at this organization) that they don’t know about. and since this is a writing job, i want to make extra sure i write a good cover letter!

  114. whingedrinking*

    I teach ESL to international students in Canada.
    At my school, in addition to the usual gendered multi-stall washrooms, there is a small single-occupant washroom. Every so often I go in there and it reeks of weed. I don’t have issues with cannabis use but I’d rather pee somewhere that doesn’t smell like it; also, some people do have issues that can be triggered or exacerbated by the smell/fumes.
    Note that there is already a sign on the mirror saying “Don’t smoke in the bathroom, by local bylaw”, but it’s not very large. Also, I think the person or people responsible are vaping. (They probably know deep down they’re not supposed to do that either, but could cover their butts by saying it doesn’t expressly forbid it.)
    The one thing I feel I could reasonably say here is that international students may know that they can buy marijuana, but not that it’s legal to use in public. It’s not legal to drink alcohol on the street, so I could see people assuming that prohibition extends to pot.
    Should I recommend that a different sign be put up, something to the effect of, “Don’t smoke OR vape in here; we can smell it and some people are allergic. It’s legal to consume both cannabis and tobacco outdoors in public in Canada. Please go to the smoking area if you are using it”? Would it be shady of me to just put one up anyway?

    1. WellRed*

      I’m confused. It’s not legal per local bylaw or it is? And legal doesn’t mean allowed to smoke it wherever. What is school policy? Either way, I don’t see why it would be shady (?) to make a new sign but I doubt the scofflaws will pay attention to it. But keep it simpler. Don’t smoke or vape in here.

      1. whingedrinking*

        The bylaw is that you can’t smoke indoors. You can smoke/vape outdoors on the street.

    2. Miel*

      Hmm, I imagine signage changes would probably technically need to be approved by facilities, but I’m not against some rouge sign hanging.

      Larger picture, though – are you able to address the topic with the students (as a whole, or with the individual smokers)? Discuss smoking etiquette – and the reasons behind the policies – during an all staff assembly? Include vaping etiquette it in a drug-awareness class?

      It’s possible the students won’t care and will continue smoking in the bathroom, but worth a shot trying to educate them, at least!

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Too many words. Tack up a sign that says “DO NOT SMOKE OR VAPE IN HERE” — add “PLEASE” if you like.

      It doesn’t have to be prohibited by law to be disallowed or simply unwelcome in the washroom.

      1. whingedrinking*

        My one thing about saying “It’s legal to do it outside” is probably more likely to work; I’m confident that students know they’re not supposed to be smoking inside at all, because it’s not like they’re lighting up in the hallways. Pointing them towards a place where they *can* do it seems more likely to effect a change than just saying “DON’T” louder.

  115. Mackenzie M*

    I am in the final stages of interviews for a job that I think I have a decent chance of getting. I’m very interested in the work and it makes sense from a career trajectory position.

    Has anyone had any luck in negotiating a position to be remote when it is not advertised as such? The position is about 50% out-of-state travel which I have confirmed at multiple points throughout the process. Then, the office is WFH 2/5 days of the week. I’m struggling with the idea of moving for a job where I’d be in the office 3 out of every 10 working days at most. They’re having trouble filling this position due to the unique requirements – including the heavy travel. I’m ok with the heavy travel but I’d just as soon not move. If I’m going to be 3 states away most of the time, why go through the trouble of trying to find candidates who will move for those couple of days?

    Has anyone had any luck negotiating something like this? For the purposes of my question, please assume that I am a good fit for the role and that there isn’t any financial/tax reason for the business why I wouldn’t be able to WFH from my current location when not traveling.

    1. Miel*

      I think it’s certainly worth asking!

      Also consider if you’d be willing to travel to the home office once a month (on your dime or on theirs) to get some of the team-building benefits without the hassle of a move.

      A few of my colleagues negotiated something like this, back before COVID, although they already worked for the company before going remote.

  116. H*

    Just a vent to say how frustrating it was listening to my manager lie about her management style this week. She was on an interview panel for a manager in another department, and interviewed a candidate who complained about how working from home has meant he’ll sometimes call his staff members and they don’t get back to him for half an hour. “It’s 2022, who’s still running a bums-in-seat culture?” my manager said.

    My manager is! If I take five minutes to call her back she snipes at me, she regularly complain when she wants to speak to one of my co-workers unplanned and they’re in the bathroom, if she emails me a task to do and I don’t respond within five minutes she calls to ask where it is (even if the task would take an hour to complete).

    I’m so over working for oblivious managers who expect their staff to validate their completely false fantasies about their management style.

    1. Josephine Beth*

      I laughed out loud at this, while also groaning in sympathy! My boss is notorious for patting herself on the back for not being a micromanager and for always being so very, very accommodating of work/life balance. She is, as I’m sure you can guess, one of the most micromanaging bosses I’ve been ever known, and she’s never met a vacation she couldn’t ruin with an urgent phone call about a very non-urgent work problem.

  117. AhhhRealEmotions*

    I found this site when googling “how to deal with a coworker who always cries,” and decided to post our more specific situation. I apologize if this is the wrong place for this, as it is a bit of a serious situation.

    I sympathize with being overwhelmed and crying, but somehow a mini-culture has developed among a clique at work where they will always “cry” (and then mysteriously stop the moment anyone changes the topic) to get out of work or manipulate people. Sometimes, they do this more than once a week. There’s one individual who is the most severe in this, as her behavior is such that she must always be the center of attention, makes herself the victim of everything, and never has anything positive to say about anything. For an example of how extreme this gets, one time she started crying over how bad her job is in the middle of an ice cream party for a project she didn’t even take part in.

    A lot of replies in the thread that came up on google suggested therapy – the most severe one actively rejects that – or termination, but I’m guessing part of the issue is we’re already short staffed and frankly can’t afford to lose anyone without everyone else taking up even more work. Plus, likely one of the reasons this developed, is how two of the people in this clique are also among those who have been there the longest.

    I don’t deal well with random outbursts of emotions, and being the target of one of them has caused me to lose sleep over the past few days.

    I know there’s likely no easy answer besides “get a new job asap,” but… everyone seems at a loss at this point.

    1. RagingADHD*

      Most people who legit cry involuntarily at work from stress or whatever, say they would prefer that everyone pay minimal attention to the crying and just get on with the substance of the meeting / performance review/ etc. So I’d say the best and most polite response would be to behave as if they are a consummate professional who is just momentarily overcome.

      Think of a judge handling an emotional witness on the stand: “You seem upset. Do you need a moment to compose yourself?”

      Not those words exactly, but that attitude. Excuse them from the room, and get on with what you were doing, or change the subject.

      If it’s a situation where you have to resolve something directly with a manipulative crier, I have successfully stopped one in their tracks by handing them a tissue and saying, “I can see you feel strongly about this. We can pause until you’re ready to go on.”

      And then just sitting quietly until they stopped. (Those tears turned to glaring very fast!)

      The important thing is that you don’t reward the behavior. If they stop getting attention, they will either stop doing it, or get so angry that they act out to the point that they will absolutely have to be fired.

      1. WellRed*

        This. Be bland, be boring, be anything but sympathetic and all “awwwww, are you ok?”

    2. Slinky*

      I mentioned this to my husband. He said he experienced this when working as a shift manager at Starbucks. Employees would routinely burst into tears to get out of doing work. His solution was to tell them to take a moment to pull themselves together and then get back to work. He also explained that, if they couldn’t stop crying, he’d have to send them home and they wouldn’t get paid for those hours. The tears would stop when the realized they’d lose pay.

      I don’t know if you have any power to do this, since I don’t know if you’re a manager. Ultimately, the key is to respond as blandly as possible. They’re looking for emotional feedback. Don’t give it to them.

    3. just another bureaucrat*

      For you to create a little emotional distance for yourself I really like the treat it like you’re an anthropologist idea, you’re watching and observing but not really a part of it.

      For actually responding everyone else is right about being bland about it. I sometimes end up crying when I’m really exhausted or stressed, I have an angry crier for a coworker, I work with someone else who is really sensitive and just cries a lot, and someone else who is very emotional about a lot and cries. The thing to do is just keep moving. Give them a minute if they need it but not a cooing minute, but a bland, dull, quiet, passive minute. Just pass the kleenex and wait, or step away and come back when they’ve had a moment. At a work party I’d go, “I’ll give you a moment” and step away from them with as much of a kind compassionate smile as you can manage. That kind of thing is pretty effective.

  118. Screaming Internally*

    So I have started a new job and am 2 weeks in. Similar to my previous role, but new industry. Fully remote! But it’s been…a wild two weeks. The work equipment didn’t show up until the end of the first day (and it did not even work so that is a whole story), so I had to meet with managers via my devices after being promised monitors, headsets, etc as part of the acceptance letter.

    On top of this, the initial teams I would be managing has doubled (less than I originally had in previous job but more than I expected), and the manager I report to has swapped. I’m also seeing buckets of internal issues and weird dynamics between people and new manager is kind of discrediting my observations. (A lot of “you have fresh eyes so your insight is valuable” with a side of “well you need to learn the culture”. Buddy, your teams don’t have requirements to work documented in the system of record.). I could go with the flow and frankly sleep through this job by just following the step by step guidelines everyone wants me to do, but that’s just not who I am.

    At the same time – two of my fave coworkers went to a company in the same industry and have a job opening with better benefits and pay than current and previous job. They submitted my resume for a job opening before I accepted current job. The company is reaching out and it would be a pay jump, remote job, better benefits, and less teams and much much more fulfilling

    If I leave one job for another after two months, what does that say about me? Should I put my head down and just do a few years before I think about job hunting?

    1. beezus*

      If I’ve learned anything back reading /66/ to last Oct when I was laid off while killing time at my new job is that it is fine to bail especially for something better fit and better money and few people have regretted doing so and those who didn’t regretted for the most part trying to stick it out and “put their time in”. Go for it. If you were a bad fit the company would let you go; why not let the bad new hire company go for something better? I wouldn’t suggest if the next role doesn’t work out you keep doing it, but in this instance it sounds like you’d be just punishing yourself by not taking an offer if it comes at new new company.

      1. Screaming Internally*

        You are so right. So so right.

        I am allowed to leave a bad fit. I need to remind myself that. The thing I agreed to is not what I am getting and I am allowed to say no.

        Thank you!!

    2. PollyQ*

      It doesn’t say anything bad about you, and I feel like leaving after 2 months is better in some ways than leaving after 10, since your employer won’t have put as much time & effort into bringing you up to speed. When you’re asked in the future, you’ll be able to say that the job turned out to be quite different from what it was billed as, and I think most employers will understand that. Or for a two-month stint, you can even leave it off your resume. Leaving will almost certainly burn a bridge with your current employer, and you do need to be pretty sure that you’ll be able to stay with the new company for a couple of years, or else you’ll get the dread “job-hopper” label.

      But there’s nothing unethical (IMO) about leaving a job that’s not working for you, under almost all circumstances.

      1. Screaming Internally*

        I hate the idea of burning the bridge and I think that is what keeps twisting me into knots. And if this job wasn’t having help desk have me sit in a “company parking lot of a store for four hours while they try to make the laptop work” because it’s that or fly to another coast for the Corp office to make the laptop work, I would kind of be fine with the lack of work. I just feel so unsupported when I know it would literally be the exact opposite at prospective company. Management has clearly stated they don’t have good support for remote work and it’s a known issue…

        Thank you for the advice re job hopping. It’s a huge fear of mine to get that label.

    3. H*

      I’d strongly encourage you to take the new job! Job hopping is not the sin it once was (and you could even take this current job off your resume imo). The dynamics at your new job seem exhausting and given your old co-workers can give you an honest testimonial of the new company, it seems highly likely you’d wind up in a much more enjoyable atmosphere than the one you’re in now.

      1. Screaming Internally*

        I think what is really freaking me out if the dynamics of the current job heavily remind me of the old job. I had the 10 years at my back and history so I could fight to right the ships when I needed to, but I paid dearly for it emotionally and physically since I was doing 3 jobs for one salary. Staring down the two year journey that led me to inevitably leave the first company (and quite frankly nearly broke me) without the history or backing of senior management scares me more than I want to admit.

        The one thing is previous job and prospective job are looking to…collaborate so I would end up working with all the people I did in that first one. Including an exec who said to my face he had no idea why someone would pay more for me to do the job I was doing with less teams (which is ironic since they posted the 100k range for the rec for my old job with the min being my previous salary). So there is that…complication.

        I think it’s a devil you know vs devil you don’t situation to be honest.

        1. PollyQ*

          There’s always Option C, which is to pass on this opportunity, but look for a better one starting now, rather than in a couple of years.

          1. Screaming Internally*

            PollyQ how do you answer so concisely and clearly that all I can do is go, you know what? THIS is the answer right here.

            I want to be you when I grow up.

            1. Screaming Internally*

              Erm, just realized how this sounded and uh, I’m not being sarcastic, I swear. I’m long winded and ramble, so I am straight up in awe with how you converse so clearly.

  119. beezus*

    I started my new job last week and while my workload is very low right now, that’s okay because I also got a new puppy AND am cleaning out my old apartment (I already moved but lease isn’t up so baby steps). New job seems like it’s going to be a great fit for my skills and my new boss already is like “so I have xyz issue I haven’t been able to get to and I know you can deal with it can I send it to you?” and it’s like the most easiest sort of thing to deal with. Cross your fingers it works out.

  120. Mistiosa*

    First-time commenter, but I’ve been reading for a little while.
    For hourly positions, how common is it to clock out for lunch vs. staying clocked in?

      1. RM*

        Not if you are expected to interrupt your meal to help your co-workers or customers. There are many, many jobs with “lean” staffing – just one person on shift, or barely enough people on shift to help with the workload/number of customers. For example I worked at a hotel where you only clocked out if you went off the property. It wasn’t super frequent, but there was an expectation that if you were on the property, you would put down your food and help out if needed, then take the rest of your break later.

    2. Miel*

      At my company, it can go both ways. I think that people who get a 15(?) minute lunch get paid, but a 30 minute lunch is unpaid. The company sometimes likes the shorter lunch because it means more widgets made per day (on a 3 shift schedule).

      I believe state law typically has something to say about the topic. Different states have different break requirements.

    4. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      Check your local wage and hours laws, because there are probably rules that in turn drive the policy, but everywhere that I’ve worked as an hourly worker lunch was unpaid unless I was expected to work while eating. (Classic example is sole employee working at a small shop that isn’t very busy, but that doesn’t want to actually close the shop for lunch in case a customer wanders in – that would be a paid lunch.)

    5. BookMom*

      I had a hourly job that we had to clock out for lunch if we left the building but got paid if we stayed onsite. The idea was we could be called back into service for emergencies and also if we left the building and were in a car accident on the clock it would be A Thing. Probably not legal but that job didn’t care a fig about labor laws.

    7. RM*

      I always stayed clocked in at the bike shop where there wasn’t a back room to hide from customers. They would walk up and ask questions and depending on how busy it was I would sometimes abandon the food and spend a bunch of time helping them before getting back to my meal. Sometimes I had a lovely peaceful lunch on the clock :)

    8. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My team, if they work 5.5+ hours and don’t clock out for lunch then either a 30 minute unpaid lunch is deducted from their shift (and their timecard shows, say, 8a-4:30p for a total of 8 hours) or they can attest that they elected not to take a meal break during that shift and their timecard shows 8a-4p for a total of 8 hours with no meal break. If they do actually clock out for lunch, their lunch break can be as long as they want until they clock back in, and if they’re clocking out before the 5.5 hour mark, no meal deduction is taken.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        To answer the actual question I think you were asking: They can eat on the clock if they want to, with the caveat that if they do so, it still counts as productive time when their monthly productivity is measured, they can’t deduct it from their total hours as nonproductive time. If they don’t want lunch to count as productive time, they have to actually take the official unpaid break. But which option they choose is up to them. (Most, but not all, of my team prefer to eat on the clock and they don’t have any resulting productivity issues.)

  121. beentheredonethat*

    So I was tasked with training another employee in llama grooming. I don’t do llama grooming, but I can do it. I did my job, trained George and it wasn’t working. My boss just put on more pressure. George suddenly quit. It was a mismatch between person and skills. They now they hired a person trained in llama grooming. Yeah.
    My boss now wants me train Philip in llama grooming tool buying. Philip doesn’t want to do purchasing. I pointed out the obvious of purchasing. (I took it from purchasing agent standard job recruitment on google.) Still, I feel like its George part 2. . I like Philip, but the mistakes will be expensive. It’s not like buying copy paper. Suggestions on what to say to my boss.

    1. WellRed*

      I guess that depends on what your actual role is first, and your standing in the company, second. And no offense, but having someone that doesn’t do these tasks but “can” doing the training and then having it not work out two times in a row? Either use that to your advantage as to why your boss approach sucks (cause it does) or be prepared to look like you’re the problem.

  122. Hunnybee*

    This may be an obvious question, but how do you all respond to criticism / feedback in your jobs (manager or colleagues).

    Do you explain your viewpoint? Do you simply thank them? Do you say how you plan to make changes? How have you approached feedback in a way that strengthened the relationship?

    I had a manager that didn’t seem to like any of the responses I gave for anything. Now that I’ve moved on, I’m reflecting on what I could have done better in a difficult situation and it occurred to me that Eloquently Responding to Feedback and Criticism 101 is not a class I’ve ever seen offered anywhere. I’m sure I could have done better, and would love to hear how you handle those conversations.

    1. Screaming Internally*

      Can I ask what type of criticism you are getting? Like a flavor? Is it a nitpicking of how you complete your work, how you present yourself, or one of those communications ones?

      I previously got a critique about how I called out work by groups (llama herding, llama feeding, llama grooming, etc) instead of by an ambiguous “we” in order to bring everyone around the common mission of taking care of llamas. I was able to counterpoint that my manager didn’t refer to the overall groups, nor did their peers. They only refered to “my teams” and the rest. So I was confused on how I was dividing the group when the management team wasn’t communicating in the same way. So why was I being held to a standard management wasn’t holding themselves to?

      I’ve always leaned on examples of others and how they handle similar situations when a manager tries to lay their expectations on me that don’t…exactly make sense. Also ask for specific examples and have them walk you through what they expected. Sometimes you can catch the nuainces there.

      1. Hunnybee*

        In that specific situation, I was being managed by someone who had no experience in my discipline and never commented on the quality of my work, so it was difficult for me to understand how to comment in actionable ways.

        Feedback was more like: oh, you don’t speak up enough in meetings (I do speak up, but there are one or two people — like that manager — who typically mansplain through the majority of meetings there). Or, alternately, I would get vague feedback that was about how I need to “show up” more, which is hard to understand when I never missed a deadline or meeting and went out of my way to not only train new teammates but also connect folks cross-org. And, my colleagues positively called that collaboration work out in my review.

        I think much of it was just filtered through this guy’s personal lens (including gendered expectations about how women should be perky and super social like Julie on the Love Boat), but I really struggled with the vague but ongoing criticism that seemed to really be about how I should be different in some way that was never explicitly clear.

        Over time, I found this to be demoralizing.

        1. Screaming Internally*

          One of the things I mentored college hires on is the concept of “having a buddy” on your HR team or sister team who does the same or similar job and has a similar skill set. This is where it gets dicey: confide in them in feedback you are getting or ask for their unbiased opinion on what you can improve based on the feedback you are getting. Start working on what they see as ways to solve the feedback and ask them to tell the manager of instance where you are trying in their one on ones. If you don’t have the same manager the feedback may get back to your boss slower but usually that commentary gets back.

          See if people giving good feedback on calls will put it in writing and get it sent across to your manager. I do a lot of “oh you thought I did well? Um, can you shoot an email to my boss and I, so I have it for eval time accomplishments?” Because we all know why you are saying it without saying it.

          Takes a village to change an opinion without clear facts tied to it. Just remember to give others good feedback using the same methods because good deeds should be returned with more good ones.

          Hope this helps!

      2. Hunnybee*

        Also, that’s great advice about asking for specific examples and also asking clarifying questions. My manager was a vague rambler, so it was hard sometimes to understand the train of thought.

    2. Zee*

      I tend to combine explaining what I did with also making it clear I’m accepting their feedback and deferring to their authority. Like, “I went with X because of Y and Z, but if you’d like me to do it another way, I can.” With reasonable bosses, I’ve had some success with them sometimes saying “actually that makes more sense, keep doing it X way” (and other times saying “let’s go with my way from now on”).

      1. Hunnybee*

        That makes sense. I think that the deferring to authority is an important callout here….

  123. Zee*

    How do you explain in an interview that you’re looking to leave your job because you’re vastly underpaid – when you’re applying to a job that’s at a lower level? The usual language of “looking to progress in my career” or whatever doesn’t work, because it’s technically a step back. (I really wish it were acceptable to just say “I want more money.”)

    1. RagingADHD*

      I don’t see anything wrong with saying that you found out your compensation was far below the market, and the company was not able to bring it in line, so you’re looking for a better opportunity. And then you pivot to talking about what you like about the new job – like the fact that they value their staff properly.

      1. Gary Patterson's Cat*

        Exactly!
        Looking for a better opportunity.
        Looking for additional responsibilities.
        Seeking a different sort of challenge.
        Seeking a position that focuses more on X than Y because you like X doing much better.
        Searching for a company that has a better alignment to your values (maybe).
        Searching for a public company versus a non-profit because you want a more well-rounded experience.
        Switching from X industry to Y industry in lower level role because you like A and B about this industry.

        Realizing you didn’t enjoy or weren’t ready for (higher level role) and you’d like to focus on becoming an expert at lower level role because it was something you truly enjoyed doing.

          1. PollyQ*

            It’s your call as to whether it’s moral to lie under these circumstances, but I would say you don’t really need a truthful reason here. As long as you have something that sounds fairly reasonable, the interviewer is likely to move on fairly quickly to your qualifications and interest with respect to the job they’re hiring for.

  124. WhackAMole*

    Big week for my family standing up against workplace nonsense! I got contacted by a LinkedIn message for a job matching my weirdly specific skill set – I responded explaining why it’s important for equity and diversity to list the pay range in the job posting — crickets. My young adult child accepted a summer job and then was treated like garbage during onboarding by an unnecessarily hostile supervisor…so he politely declined the position and walked away. It feels good not to be a doormat!

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      crickets

      Real talk, can I ask how never hearing back from them was a win for you? Or maybe you did ask them the salary range in addition to giving them a lecture about D&E best practices, I don’t know. But in the end you still didn’t hear what the salary range was. (Never mind that the contact may have been a third-party recruiter who has no control whatsoever as to the content of the job listing.) Aren’t you left in the position where you may have missed an opportunity?

      2. RagingADHD*

        Oh, Glomarization, why would you want to normalize salary disclosure by — you know, acting like it’s normal — when you could seize the opportunity to lecture strangers?

        Where’s the fun in that?

        /s

  125. NerdyLibraryClerk*

    I have a super weird workplace question. Someone in my workplace left a religious message on my desk. I’m giving it entirely too much thought, thanks to the current political climate of this country (the US), but while I’m not exactly out at work, I’m not exactly *not* out at work, if that makes any sense. I also have a pro trans rights message in my cubical.

    I’m torn between thinking it was a perfectly harmless, if a smidge odd bit of friendliness from some religious coworker (What I *want* to believe.) and being concerned that I’m going to start getting weird plausible deniability harassment over who I am and/or my political beliefs. Should I mention anything to my supervisor at this point, or just wait and see if anything more happens?

    I hate that we live in a world where a probably innocuous message makes me paranoid.

    1. PollyQ*

      I’d make a note of it somewhere, and maybe even hang onto the note it in case this is the opening salvo to a conversion campaign, but I wouldn’t do anything yet. It’s definitely inappropriate for a workplace, even if it is fairly innocuous, but it’s possible it’s not directly linked to your identity. Some varieties of Christian think it’s important to try to convert everyone, and legally, you’re entitled to be free of religious harassment at work regardless of anything else, so you could legitimately complain without feeling the need to out yourself. But as I said, I’d wait and see if anything else happens.

      1. NerdyLibraryClerk*

        With luck, it’s a one off weird thing. But if it happens again, I’ll probably mention it to my supervisor as something odd that happened.

    2. Eyes Kiwami*

      Is there an ally in your office you could discreetly ask if they got such a message too?

      1. NerdyLibraryClerk*

        I did ask the person in the next cubical over, and she didn’t get anything. If there’d been messages in everyone’s cubical it would be a different sort of strange.

    3. NerdyLibraryClerk*

      Update to the weird note situation: one of my coworkers found a note on her desk this morning, also inappropriate for the workplace (possibly more so, as it commented on her appearance). We’ve both told our supervisor and she’s going to get to the bottom of it.

      At least it’s not just me, but also: yikes!

      1. PollyQ*

        Commented on her appearance??!?!? Lemme guess, she’s dressing like a brazen harlot, am I right? What the hell is wrong with people?! Alerting your supervisor was definitely the right call, and I hope she does indeed sort out the situation!

  126. just another bureaucrat*

    I had to apply for a baby step promotion today and I’m very crabby about it. Our HR has denied 4 requests to increase my salary or reallocate me to a higher level role (which everyone who actually works with me agrees I am by far doing). So I ended up doing a very angry resume and cover letter addressing every single point and it got really long but I don’t care. I’m so frustrated with the HR department who is continually making things incredibly difficult and creating all this bs about we should be trying to retain good employees and support them and then giving HR and HR employees only bonuses and salary bumps because they threaten to leave, but then denying people like me and others in my area the jobs we already have in the name of “giving people an open opportunity for promotions”.

    This is a complete charade and I’m incredibly frustrated but I’ll be damned if anyone is going to be able to say I’m not the most qualified person for my job. To anyone who sees the job and applies, sorry, it sucks for everyone. No one likes this except apparently HR who can say they posted X number of jobs.

    1. PollyQ*

      That does sound like a great deal of bullshit. IMO, HR shouldn’t even be involved in these kinds of decisions. It should be up to the people that actually manage you. Good luck anyway, I guess?

      1. just another bureaucrat*

        Thank you! I’d totally agree about HR not being involved but I’m not nearly high enough on the food chain to make that happen. I’ll just keep fighting for my team as best I can but I always feel bad for people who apply for stuff like this.

  127. Call Me Al*

    I received a phone screen offer on Friday, and they asked if we could meet today (Sunday).
    I agreed and provided a 4-hour window. The recruiter did not respond.
    Followed up this morning asking if the call was still on. No response.
    I’m now 30 minutes into the window, wasting my weekend waiting for these people. Should I just give up? Their reviews on Glassdoor, Indeed, even their Google location are universally horrible. I’m not desperate for a job in terms of income.

    I know this is a very late comment in this thread but this behaviour is really weirding me out!

    1. CakeDonut*

      I’d move on!
      Actually, I’d email/message something along the lines of “Looks like this may not be a great time for you since I haven’t heard a confirmation” and then either suggest another day or ask if they have another date this week that works. Then move on with your Sunday, especially if it’s a meh job to you!

    2. Eyes Kiwami*

      Honestly your last paragraph makes me wonder why you’re pursuing this at all, seems like you would be very unhappy there. Their behavior at this interview is another red flag on a pile of red flags.

  128. JobHopper*

    I’m certified in Llama Singing and Instrument Performance. This year I was able to teach at 2 different Llama Mater Schools (50% each). LMS#2 was a one-year fill-in contract. LMS #1 had contract renewals this year (I would have had 2 more years at 50%), but I missed the signing deadline.

    I applied to a revamped job at LMS#1: Llama Singing & Llama Reading Instructor (50% each for full-time). My online application went to the boss’s junk email, and it took an extra month to be considered. I was not awarded the job as I only had 1 certification, not both. LMS #1 contract ends this week and LMS#2 contract ends one week later.

    Need encouragement about balancing Local Sheep/Alpaca/Wooly Mammoth Job Service agency goals (resumes, take it now jobs, summer work) without missing Llama Singing (etc.) School jobs. I live near a major university that has a large LMS certified graduating class so the competition is keen—all but 4 jobs are filled for next year. (Not interested in moving, or commuting more than 45 miles to job site, this is rural area).

    Thanks in advance. If you’d be able to offer some once a week encouragement, drop me a line.

Comments are closed.