open thread – May 27-28, 2022

by Alison Green on May 27, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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{ 1,028 comments }

{ 1,028 comments… read them below }

  1. Eileen*

    Hi there,

I had my 1st interview with this global company last week and the hiring manager immediately invited me to a 2nd round. I completed a task and delivered a long presentation to the hiring manager and another department head on Monday. They were both very impressed and said that they’d talk to their boss. He was already in the 2nd interview’s Outlook invite but didn’t turn up by the way.

On Tuesday HR contacted me to schedule a 20 min informal chat with the Director for that day, apologizing for the short notice. I made myself available immediately and we arranged the call shortly.

I thought it started off well, however shortly after what was meant to be an informal chat turned into what felt like an interrogation. He kept asking very basic questions I’ve already covered in-depth previously. He also sounded bit negative in his questions such as ‘Why would you leave your current job after such short time?’. I’ve been at my job for the last 3 years for info and switching jobs regularly for experience is common in my industry. And a quick LinkedIn search revealed that during the time I was at my current job, this person changed 3 jobs himself… Audacity!!

The worst of all was when I was giving him my responses, he was watching me like one the Easter Island statues…

I’m quite put off by this as it felt like a stress test. And still haven’t heard back from the company despite the Director saying they’d make a decision and get back by the end of this week… What do you make of this?

    1. ferrina*

      Would the Director be your Grandboss? If so, that’s not a great thing. I’m not as concerned about having to rehash info on your resume- that can be pretty normal- but asking about why you’d leave after a “short” 3 years? That’s weirdly combative. Based on what you saw of him, is this someone you’d really want to work for? These weirdnesses have a way of trickling down (see Allison’s response to LW1 earlier today). I’d trust your gut (whatever it tells you)

      Not hearing back is totally normal- companies get delayed on hiring all the time. It doesn’t mean that they aren’t moving forward, but it doesn’t mean that they are.

      1. Eileen*

        Thanks so much for your comment.

        And I apologize from everyone as my phone skewed the text which originally had paragraphs!

        Very valid concern and a friend of mine said that he seems to have micromanaging tendencies (due to not trusting his 2 direct reports’ perspective)

    2. Observer*

      If this is who you would be working for, I’d not take the job.

      You currently have a job, so you can afford to be a little picky. Because even if your current job is bad, it sounds like working for this guy would be toxic.

    3. londonedit*

      Was everyone else you met nice and approachable, and it was just him being a bit of a dick? And would you be working for him directly? It’s possible that he just has no idea how to interview people effectively and somehow believes he has to make it weirdly adversarial, and that he either wouldn’t be like that once you actually joined the company and were ‘on the team’. It’s also possible that you wouldn’t have to work with him directly and it’d just be a case of ‘oh yeah, that’s Fergus, he’s weirdly combative about things but stand your ground and he’ll back down eventually’. The problem is, it’s hard to know whether either of those is the case, or whether he actually is a massive dick AND you’d have to work with him on a daily basis. If you didn’t get a generally good feeling from the company and the other people you interviewed with, I’d probably suggest not going for this job if you get an offer. But if everyone else seemed nice and the place had a good vibe about it, if you do hear from them again with an offer then maybe consider asking a few more questions about how this guy’s role intersects with yours before you accept.

      1. Eileen*

        Thanks. The direct manager and the other department head were absolutely delightful. They kept complimenting my qualifications/background. That’s one of the reasons I was so taken aback by the Director’s coldness.

        1. I should really pick a name*

          If you’re willing to turn down the job, I think you can be quite direct with the questions you ask the direct manager and other department head.
          You can express your concerns from your interaction with him and see what they have to say about it.

        2. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

          Wow, and this is as good as it gets – he’s on his ‘best’ behavior now as they’re wooing you. How closely would you work with him if you worked there?

    4. Carpe Manana*

      I once had an interview very much like that where I was interrogated on every basic point. Everything was twisted to make it look like a negative and put me on the defensive. I thought I could never work for that individual, but despite all my resolve, I ended up taking the job anyway.

      That was nearly ten years ago, and the “interrogator” has turned out to be an amazing boss and mentor. He later explained that for better or worse, he likes to see how interviewees respond when they’re on the hot seat. Do they get defensive? Can they keep their composure? We deal with a lot of high-strung and emotionally overwrought individuals at this place, and he wanted some inkling for how a candidate might respond in such situations.

      Your experience might be something completely different and he might just lack basic interviewing skills. But it’s a different perspective and worth keeping in mind.

    5. PollyQ*

      The fact that they haven’t gotten back to you by now is so common as to be irrelevant to anything else. Everything in hiring always takes longer than the company thinks or says.

    6. linger*

      Also possible Director already had a particular individual earmarked for the position, and so was predisposed to find negatives in the competitors to “justify” that to others involved in the hiring decision. (Which still wouldn’t excuse their behaviour toward those other candidates; if anything, it’d make it worse.)

  2. Stressed*

    Update on my problem employee: she had to be taught how to save a file to her desktop on Wednesday. I asked our other admin to clarify, certain that she was exaggerating out of frustration.

    She wasn’t. This is *infuriating.*

    1. Imaginary Number*

      Is there any sort of basic computer-skills training course you can make her take?

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          No one is ever past that point. If refresher or development is needed, either do it (suggest it) or let her go. Since you don’t have the power to let her go, then suggest a course or a book or whatever. Or… you accept that this is something that won’t change and you manage your own frustration.

          But no one is ever beyond or above skills-honing. If my boss said to me, “I need you to brush up your business communications or we have to talk about your future,” then I’ll take a course, even if I think my business communication skills are exceptional.

          1. Stressed*

            She’s an admin with 20 years of experience (allegedly) who doesn’t know how to do a bare bones basic level task for an admin. It’s past that point.

            1. AvonLady Barksdale*

              Ok…? Then what can YOU do? Nothing? Or sit and stew? If you have no control, then I get that it’s frustrating, but either keep talking to management and/or accept that this will not change and it is Not Your Problem. You’ve had good suggestions made, but if you’re truly powerless then you have to focus on your own work rather than building up resentment over hers.

              1. Stressed*

                Her incompetence means that my coworker & I have even more work on our plates, and we’re already understaffed. I’m gonna vent!

                1. Unkempt Flatware*

                  This sounds absolutely maddening and I’m sorry you’re getting such odd responses to your post. I would likely stand and look at her in shock if she told me she didn’t know how to do that.

                2. WantonSeedStitch*

                  Then it sounds like the only thing you can do is set limits with your boss, and say “I can’t do X and Y for Problem Employee unless you take something else off my plate, because I’m spending # hours a day helping her and correcting her mistakes. I’m unable to do my job and hers too.” And if boss is not helpful, it might be time to start looking for another job that doesn’t make you so stressed!

                3. Meep*

                  I totally get it. I once had to fight a coworker on using excel to store her client information. We were moving away from tracking sales in a single excel spreadsheet and into an automated system with all the bells and whistles. Not only did she not want to move to this new sales system, but she very rudely insisted that I am to still send her updated excel spreadsheets via email with her entire client list because she doesn’t know how to add rows in excel… Like just use the new system, ffs.

                4. JelloStapler*

                  I had a boss who woudl go through her deleted emails file when Outlook said it was full. She could not understand that she had already decided these emails would go in the trash. She also thought we had to arrange attachments a certain way in emails so people could find them.

                  She was a Director.

            2. tamarak & fireweed*

              I appreciate you’re venting.

              Once you’re done venting, and you will be, the choice I see is:
              *** Can you get her dismissed from her role?
              yes –> it IS past the point of trying to teach her
              no –> it is not past the point, as even now having her in a basics skills class is probably the best use of her time

    2. Observer*

      Does anyone have a plan?

      If nothing else, keep on informing both YOUR manager and HER manager every. single. time. something gets held up because of her. And don’t do her work, even if it means stuff falls behind.

      MAKE IT MANAGEMENT’S problem.

      1. irene adler*

        Yes, this!
        And document -in writing-what you can. Don’t let management wiggle out of this by saying they can’t do anything until they can accumulate the documentation to take action.

        1. Momma Bear*

          This is what I’m thinking. Make it very clear to the bosses that you can/can’t do x and y because Problem Coworker isn’t able to complete her portion of the tasks. This our workload, this is how it’s distributed, and why. Given this information, does Boss have a plan to reassign tasks or prioritize differently than what you’re already doing? Sometimes you need to make it impact them to get a response.

    3. Spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall*

      Oh, I am here. I had a conversation with my staffer about a link they shared with someone. They said the link wasn’t working. The link they shared was to a PDF on their computer. Meaning, they copied the pathway to the document on their computer and shared it with someone outside the company. It was not a digital document. It did not live online. It therefore could not be shared with someone who wasn’t sitting at their computer. And then when I told them this, they were annoyed that I clarified it was their mistake.

      1. TheAce*

        I am boggling here at the fact that someone knows how to find the file path on their computer and yet doesn’t know how to do an attachm

        1. Spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall*

          Oh, they know how to attach a document. They literally thought the pathway on their computer could be accessed by someone not using their computer. Why they think that, I could not say. I would think someone who can find the file path would realize the file path couldn’t be used on another computer. But, my staffer does not think logically, so this is just one example of the types of conversations I have where I am taking down a rabbit hole of assumptions they make that seem bizarre and disconnected from actuality.

            1. Miss Betty*

              That’s a mistake I’ve seen attorney’s 20 years younger than me make this week.

            2. Yes to that*

              We have another poster today who handles all of their company’s global claims, and yes thinks going from 70K to 100K is a 30 percent raise.

              Everyone I know is better than me at multiple things, and also struggles to do things I can do easily. Be kind.

            3. linger*

              Actually very easy to do in some Windows systems where a file’s directory entry displays in a folder’s directory list as a “ghost” file with the same name as the file itself. Keep scrolling down the directory, and you find the actual file; but if you just select the first appropriately-named entry you come to, you’ll make exactly this error.

          2. Dromaius*

            It sounds like they don’t know the difference between being on the Cloud or an intranet, and being on an individual’s hard drive.

            1. RetailEscapee*

              Agreed. I am 40 and was a high level manager but in a field where email was much less of a tool that intranet forms/portals and had to brush up on cloud vs harddrive in my new admin type role.

            2. JR*

              This. If they’re used to working in Box or Dropbox or a y other cloud storage/shared drive that’s integrated into their Finder, this would be a pretty easy mistake to make. I’m not sure I’ve ever worked anywhere where people regularly saved documents on their own computer, and I’m 40.

      2. Meep*

        I literally called at that one, but my bar is pretty low when it comes to stupid vs silly. I had a problem coworker who couldn’t figure out how to send an image via email she wanted to be resized. Of course, the main issue was she didn’t know how to resize it.

      3. Dragon*

        Long ago, my boss sent a document containing multiple links to PDFs on our network to an outside contractor. She needed that person to do something else with the document and send it back.

        Well of course all the links got lost, which my boss may have known would happen but she needed the contractor to do his thing with it.

        Copying the links back into the revised document was easy enough, because we had multiple versions of the document. Guess who got to do that.

        This was also before 2 external monitors were standard office operating equipment. When I asked our IT department if I could borrow a second monitor to make this project easier, you’d have thought I asked for our company’s list of executive year-end bonuses.

    4. Anon today*

      This was the conversation I needed today. You aren’t the only one in this boat.

    5. WellRed*

      I’m not the most patient person. I’d probably be saying directly to the problem employee; “I dont understand, you don’t know how to do x? But you have 20 years of experience.” Or stop showing her. “It’s pretty simple, google it.” Every time until she realizes she’s not capable and quits. But I also know there are truly oblivious people out there.

    6. Researchalator Lady*

      Hahahahaha! Oh my. Have you thought of sending her lmgtfy.app (let me Google that for you) links?

  3. Lunch question*

    Low stakes question: is it weird to eat lunch (or any other meals) alone in the office cafetaria?

    1. Pascall*

      Totally not weird. I eat lunch by myself quite a bit! I just put in my headphones and scroll Tiktok lol.

    2. JustKnope*

      Nah, I do it all the time! I personally find it a nice way to reset in the middle of the day. You do you.

    4. soontoberetired*

      No.
      I used to take my 45 minute lunch alone to read and totally unplug from work, and I was not the only person in my office to do that. I did this primarily during high stress periods, but I am not the only one who ate alone in the cafeteria.

    5. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      In my in office days I would occasionally eat lunch alone, or use the fitness equipment. Very rarely would I eat with others. No one seemed to care.

      If someone says something, you can just say you need some alone time.

    6. Susan Calvin*

      There’s certainly ways to be weird *about* it, like if you aggressively avoid eye contact with the rest of your team sitting at the next table and trying to invite you over – but in principle, absolutely not.

    8. A Poster Has No Name*

      Not weird. Lots of people eat lunch alone. In fact, I know quite a few who prefer it. Time to read a book or watch some YT or play games or whatever and not have to deal with people.

    9. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      No? It takes too much time to see whether other people have time to eat w me. Also nobody uses the office anymore at my job lol

    11. Charlotte Lucas*

      Absolutely not weird. When I had access to a bigger cafeteria, I ate alone & read or did crosswords.

    12. Kes*

      No.
      But if I’m eating alone (or want to eat alone) I’ll often do something at the same time, like read a book on my phone while I eat

    13. AvonLady Barksdale*

      It is always OK to eat alone anywhere. It is ok if this happens out of necessity and also ok if it’s your choice. And it’s ok to say EITHER “Please join me” or “No thanks, I’m enjoying some quiet time.”

    14. Lady_Lessa*

      I do that all the time, and have my Kindle propped up so that I can easily read it, but I do enjoy the conversation from others, should it happen.

    15. Jora Malli*

      I love solo lunch dates! It’s a great opportunity to rest and refresh yourself for the rest of the day. If you’re comfortable with it and it’s something you enjoy doing, I say go for it.

    16. Richard Hershberger*

      The only people who think it is weird are the ones confused about the difference between an office and high school. Not that there is anything wrong with eating alone in high school, but there was a consensus that who you ate with was A Thing.

    17. Me!*

      Nah, not weird. At OldExjob, I often wrote at lunch, so I took my laptop into the break room with me. I would sit for the last 15 minutes of the shop personnel’s second lunch break, to socialize a bit, and then I had the rest of the time to myself.

      The only issue I ever had was when sales would come in and ask me to do stuff and get mad when I couldn’t. I was off the clock; I couldn’t legally work without clocking back in, and I was not going to give up my time for stuff that could wait. I was polite but firm about it, and eventually they stopped asking.

    18. Eff Walsingham*

      At my last company, we ran into problems because there were employees who refused to eat alone.

      We went from a culture of set breaks — all the more crucial during Early Covid due to break room capacity restrictions — to an expectation that if you were nearly finished a task, you should finish it before taking your break. Since we were phasing in a new data management system and testing a lot of timings, this didn’t seem like an unreasonable expectation to me. Previously, a single staffer would see an order through to completion and ship it, so you couldn’t really delay anyone else. But under the new system, one worker would need to finish a particular task before responsibility for the order passed to a designated shipper. Who would be unable to complete their task, print their paperwork, and assign a driver in the system until this hand-off occurred.

      Personally, I felt that plus or minus 15 minutes was reasonable. If I could move the work along by delaying my break by 15 minutes or less, that was a reasonable expectation. If it was likely IMO to take more like half an hour, I would be willing to lean on the health and safety aspect (I have a condition that is mostly manageable IF I eat at regular times) and my supervisor would have the option of reassigning the task. By the same token, if I finished an assignment and it was that close to my usual break time, I’d go a bit early.

      But we had multiple people who were willing to repeatedly screw up the entire workflow by just walking off the floor because of the time on the clock. Then saying, once they were located, “I had to go. I always eat with Freddie and Dolores, and we always go at 12:00.” Even being willing to endure the wrath of the coordinator, who was kind of an unhinged ranter when things went poorly. I couldn’t get my head around it. We’re not 10, and it’s not recess time. Shouldn’t the needs of the business count for something? This went on for months. The change in expectations was clearly communicated in regular meetings. And yet some people were willing to inconvenience 2 departments rather than potentially eat alone or with strangers??

      I spent 20 months eating in a semi-sheltered loading bay due to covid restrictions, mostly alone because this is Canada and we have weather, so this may be the root of my confusion. But of all the hills to die on, this was one that I found mystifying.

    20. WantonSeedStitch*

      Nope. I’ve done that before. Brought a book or fooled around with my phone. If it’s what you WANT to do and someone asks if you want to join them, it’s perfectly fine to say “thanks for the invitation, but I need a little ‘me’ time!” or something similar.

    21. snert*

      Not weird at all! Many of the staff in my company spend their lunch break watching shows on their phone with their headphones in. It’s funny to walk in there and see everyone in their own little world.

    22. Pointy's in the North Tower*

      Not at all! I used to go out to eat by myself or to Pint Nights by myself in Before Times. It was a nice way to unwind and get some reading done.

      I eat lunch by myself now in an office because it’s the only downtime I get during the work day. I need it in order to function for the rest of the day.

    23. Momma Bear*

      I think no weirder than eating alone anywhere else. I have called it my “down time” and people leave me alone.

    24. The Jobless Wonder*

      Another vote for Not Weird.

      Downtime is important, however you prefer to get it. I’ve eaten lunch alone at various places I’ve worked. Sometimes it was the only way to get a little bit of quiet and calm.

    25. mreasy*

      Not at all. I talk all day to these jokers, I want to read AAM in peace during lunch!!

    26. London Calling*

      I did this after being invited to join the team for lunch during a temp assignment. Sat down at the table and all promptly got their phones out and stared wordlessly at them for the 30 minutes we were allowed. After a couple of days of that I gracefully excused myself and ate at my desk then went for a walk (cafeteria was a bit small and anyway, I like the break from people).

    27. learnedthehardway*

      Where else would you eat lunch? I mean, cafeterias are kind of MADE for that activity.

      If the question is whether it is weird to eat alone – no. You eat at work when you need to eat or when you have an opportunity to do so. If that doesn’t coincide with when other people eat, that’s just the way it is.

    28. Squirrel Nutkin*

      Naahh — If you enjoy being alone during lunch, absolutely go for it! Source: Am introvert who needs some solo downtime to function.

    29. WishIWasATimeTraveller*

      Most at people at my office (of hundreds) eat alone. Personally, I would love to have people to eat with but it’s not really our culture so I eat at my desk and go for a walk. Nobody bats an eye at people sitting in the eating area alone.

  4. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

    I an offer this week!! Some 30ish interviews in the past two months (all over video) I finally got an offer, which is nearly double my current salary! This will truly be life changing for my family.

    And it wasn’t on paper the one I was originally the most excited about. But in the interview, I already felt like I was apart of the team. So apply for jobs that may not seem at first glance they’d be a fit. Job descriptions aren’t usually great. Do the interview, ask the questions, and you might be surprised at what job might be the one you actually end up wanting.

    1. Elle Woods*

      CONGRATULATIONS! (Yep, meant to shout that one.) So excited and happy for you and your family!

      1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

        Thank you! I still am a bit in disbelief about the salary. It’s the first time I didn’t negotiate because it was already above the original range, has a great bonus and 401k match. I had zero justification for asking for more, so I took it.

        My start date isn’t until July, my new boss has a vacation planned and I have one the week after, so it didn’t make sense to start before then. And I feel better giving my current job more notice. They have been fantastic to work for, and we have someone on medical leave until mid-June so I’ll be able to hand things off when they return. I could not have worked out better.

    2. ABK*

      Congratulations! And thanks for the advice about applying for jobs that may not seem like a fit at first.

      1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

        I did most during my lunch break. I’ll be happy to have that time back!

  5. I want a quiet job*

    Can you help me brainstorm some ideas?

    I’m an introvert who’s been working customer service jobs for the last 20 years and I’m beyond exhausted and burnt out. I need to change to a new line of work, but every time I think about doing research on what kinds of jobs there are and what they all mean it all feels too overwhelming.

    Are there any jobs where people spend most of their time sitting quietly at a desk doing independent tasks? I’m not looking for a forever job, just something really calm and boring where I can start recovering from this burnout and figure out what to do next.

    1. JustKnope*

      The initial type of job that comes to mind is data entry! Can you look for roles that have you doing a lot of data inputs? That sounds quiet and solo-work driven.

      1. ferrina*

        Seconding! Data entry may be a great option, and there’s a lot of roles that have this.

      2. Hen in a Windstorm*

        That’s exactly what I was going to say. Data entry. Boring, quiet, likely no one else to talk to.

        Also, if you’re not looking for a forever job, check temp agencies. I was once hired into an admin job that had a literal stack of papers 3 feet high that needed inputting on top of my regular duties. I never made a dent, so they finally hired a temp to only do that.

        Another option might be inventory work. I once had a 2nd PT job doing this – you usually go into stores after hours to do their inventories for them (so no customer interactions). You do have to be on your feet a lot, but it’s solo work. I worked for RGIS and I see they’re still around (and still have the burgundy polo shirts!).

        1. OyHiOh*

          I worked for RGIS decades ago and loved the work. I don’t know if I would have described 3rd party inventory as boring/quiet though! Seemed like every job site had it’s own challenges and difficulties (although after about the 3rd Dollar Tree, those get to be routine; Michael’s was the worst – especially in the papers rows).

          1. Former Imventory*

            I worked at WIS, loved Michael’s bead section. I think I was an outlier, because I loved being stuck with all the tiny fiddly stuff. My managers learned to save it all for me because I got the right count the first time and never burned out on it. Work three hours at a stretch without saying a word? Yes, please.

      3. WantonSeedStitch*

        Oh, totally! Especially if you’re someone who has good attention to detail. Another option might be transcription work.

    2. ABK*

      I don’t have an answer but am definitely interested in reading responses to this, but I feel the same way and have been staying where I am because “the devil you know…” Maybe there will be an answer here that will help me too!

    3. soontoberetired*

      the Tech industry has a lot of jobs done primarily alone, but some require a lot of skills.

      the other thing that comes to mind are Library related jobs.

      1. aubrey*

        Library related jobs often require a lot of interaction with the public, unless it’s a part-time shelving job or something.

        1. Renee Remains the Same*

          If you’re looking at library jobs, don’t look to be a public librarian. I would recommend back office jobs like cataloging. Public librarians deal with some frustrating ish.

          1. Gracely*

            Cataloging takes a lot of training. And usually, cataloging is only a part of the job, because these days, librarians have to wear many hats. Most involve working with the public, even at academic libraries.

            1. Loulou*

              I really don’t think this is true, at least in big academic/research libraries. There are plenty of technician/assistant jobs that are not public facing. Do they pay well or offer mobility? Not usually that I’ve seen, but they’re out there.

              1. Gracely*

                I have and do work in academic libraries. In tech services. As a cataloger. Most tech services jobs are not going to be available to someone just looking for a change. Most academic libraries don’t have a ton of non-public facing jobs, period. As Paris Geller points out, their library has 2 positions out of 50 that fit that bill. And most libraries do not have *50* positions. Mine has 20. We have one position that fits that bill–and we would never hire someone new to libraries into that position. They need experience with at least some kind of library software program, at the bare minimum. The last time we hired for that role, we chose someone with 5 years of library experience, plus another 5 years experience in book purchasing. There are enough librarians and library parapros out there looking for something new that most academic libraries can afford to be picky about those technical positions.

                Now, an assistant circulation position? Absolutely we’d hire someone new to libraries into that–but that’s ALL public/patron facing, all the time. Which is explicitly what the OP doesn’t want.

                1. Loulou*

                  Then it sounds like we’ve had different experiences! I’m not discounting yours, just pointing out that your library’s situation is not universal (nor do I think mine is). Most libraries don’t have 50 staff members, sure, but by definition a big library does!

            2. Paris Geller*

              I’m a librarian and I agree, but there are a few roles that don’t. My library has technical services associates positions that don’t do the cataloging (the librarian does that), but do processing and more admin things and don’t work with the public at all. That being said, they are few and far between and we have 2 of those associate positions out of 50 employees. All the other roles are customer-facing at least part of the time.

            3. Renee Remains the Same*

              I never got the hang of cataloging, so big props to those who do it. It does take training! But, just for reference, I work for a large public library system with a centralized staff for the ordering, cataloging, distributing of books. The staff involved work at a central facility and don’t interact with the public.

              1. Loulou*

                Same here, and it’s not like there’s only one of these in the country. Would it be a fit for OP? No clue, and I don’t know if they live near such a library. But it’s a totally reasonable suggestion.

        2. Trina*

          There are non-public facing librarian positions! The first one that comes to mind is collection librarians, who are responsible for ordering books for the library, entering them in the online catalog, and adding on any labels or barcodes the library system uses. There are also specialty libraries where although you are doing the same reference help as at a public library, your “patrons” are limited to a pool of professionals, like doctors for a medical library.

          1. Bikirl*

            I’m a librarian employed in a very large metropolitan system with a 100 percent non-public facing/interacting job. I’m introverted and my work suits me really well. These kinds of jobs in the library profession are grouped under technical services: they include archivist, cataloger, metadata specialist, conservator, photographer, programmer and many more. Public services positions, such as a branch or reference librarian involve much more interaction with the public. I recommend this field highly for both those that like working with the public, and those that prefer not to. I agree though that it’s a field to go into because you love libraries, or prefer working in a public field with a great mission. Professional librarian positions require a master’s degree. There are also para-professional positions in libraries that do not. I won’t disagree that library work is hard work and that some staff are facing burnout.

          2. Anon for this*

            Technical Services Manager here… Collection development or cataloging librarians generally have a Master’s degree in Library or Info sciences. In medium to large systems with centralized collection development and technical services departments, there are usually lower tier jobs that are basically “sit at a desk and process invoices, or “open boxes and put stickers on books” but those don’t exactly pay much, and are often part-time.

      2. Gracely*

        Omg, please do not recommend library jobs to people looking to escape burnout. Most people working in libraries that I know are severely burnt out already, because we keep having to do more and more work with fewer resources.

        Not to mention, the few non-public facing roles usually require a lot of training/experience to get hired into.

        1. Another Public Librarian*

          Amen to this. Don’t believe us? Check out the LIS Grievances twitter. We’re all exhausted and burnt out.

        2. AnotherLibrarian*

          Yes, this. My staff and I are all exhausted and grouchy. There’s so much “librarianship must be wonderful” perception and it’s not reality. I love my job and I love working in libraries, but I am 100% on the edge of burnout and so are many of my colleagues.

      3. talos*

        Careful about tech jobs – a lot of them are high on collaboration or communicating with people elsewhere in your process. Not to the degree customer service is, but developers and testers and PMs do all talk a fair amount.

        1. David*

          That’s true, but there’s a world of difference between those tech jobs where you might have to spend 30 minutes a day interacting with people – most of whom you know – and a customer service job where (I would imagine) you have to spend 6+ hours a day interacting with strangers. Plenty of tech jobs are very well suited for introverts despite involving some amount of human interaction.

    4. Harried HR*

      Some jobs that come to mind are…
      Data Entry
      Accounts Payable
      Payroll (processing)
      Analytics
      Try going to job boards and using key words that you would like to focus on…(Data Entry / Analytics etc)

      1. London Calling*

        Well, accounts payable except when you’re trying to do a payment run and you have told everyone the cut-off date for invoice submission (which has passed) but there is always someone who tries to wheedle more on because it’s URGENT and WE NEED THESE GOODS. Every month. Without fail.

        But doing AP data entry was my favourite part of the job. Headphones on as a ‘do not disturb’ signal and type away for hours. Very soothing.

    5. Part-time in a full-time world*

      Anything in software/programming/data analysis will be done mostly independently at a desk, though you will still have to communicate with other people via e-mail and meetings.

    6. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      Get some excel skills under your belt, that is how I solved this same dilemma for myself; I also got Google Analytics certified (free online course).

      1. I want a quiet job*

        I have a lot of excel skills, I just don’t know which jobs to apply for to use them! :)

        1. Put the Blame on Edamame*

          Well I went into digital marketing, starting in search. You could also look at building dashboards, consultancy, and software assessment/testing.

        2. Lady_Lessa*

          If you have any lab skills, then look for quality assurance technicians. Most of the time, we have to train them on the details of the work, but small group of folks, not much interaction (especially with a large company), detailed orientated, and reasonable computer skills.

    7. Charlotte Lucas*

      I was thinking the same thing! Also, when I was in a CS role, there were some roles that were often a good fit for CSRs with phone flu. Basically, they were deeper dives into issues. Some required a bit of phone work, but some just required writing letters or emails.

    8. Furgig*

      Have you ever thought about Software Engineering? You can learn a lot on your own without having to go back to school, and a large part of the job will involve sitting at a computer solving problems through programming. I don’t know if this would appeal to you, but it’s been a good job for me as an introvert, and has also given me opportunity to work on how I present my energy to others so I don’t come off as too cold or disinterested (I’m inside my head a LOT).

      You won’t be able to completely avoid people, but the kinds of interactions you’ll have with your team are vastly different from customer service interactions, and usually won’t be enough to totally drain you.

      Just a thought as an introvert who has a relatively quiet job sitting at a computer.

    9. Hillary*

      how important is the at a desk part? inventory coordinator/clerk is usually very independent and pretty low stakes, but it’s a lot of going and checking things. “Cycle count” is a good keyword for that.

      I’d stay away from AP, they usually have to talk to vendors asking for their money.

      1. I want a quiet job*

        I have some back issues so jobs that involve a lot of physical activity would be hard.

    10. Eff Walsingham*

      Seriously, try data entry for accounting/ payroll/ payables and receivables. Most people will leave you alone because they’re afraid that the ‘boring’ will rub off!

      1. London Calling*

        People leave you alone in accounts payable? I’ve been in the wrong jobs! mostly I found people coming to see me so I’ll add invoices to the payment run after the cut-off date. And pay expenses. And sort out non-payment. And chase invoices. And speak to suppliers. Etc. Etc.

        1. Eff Walsingham*

          Well, my job was more with the paying, less with the following up…. And when I did (seasonally) take over the follow-up for expenses coming out of a certain mining/ exploration project, it was all long distance so no one visited me. So I could work uninterrupted for a block of time, then return any calls or emails as needed.

          Actually I met (over the phone) a few quite interesting characters. One guy invariably made mistakes in his hand written and faxed (!!!!!! This was like 2010!) invoicing, generally in his own favour. And when I would call and explain why he wasn’t going to get as much money as he thought, he would say, “If you’re ever in this neck of the woods and need a job, I’ll hire you!” Such a nice guy, and here I kept calling and picking on his arithmetic.

          There have been times, since then, when things are tough and stressful, when I’ve thought, “Why am I doing this? I have a standing job offer in the Yukon!” :)

    11. Academic fibro warrior*

      How about test rating? I do that and it pays pretty well though the hours are variable and pay differs depending on the test. Training is largely automated and since the focus is on the test, interaction is fairly limited.

      I have…qualms about contributing to student test culture. But for a fellow introvert with chronic fatigue and that I can do all this at home, it’s been a godsend through graduate schools.

      Some companies require unpaid training, sometimes passing initial training isn’t easy, some companies do benefits but those vary (I get retirement from one even though it’s part time), so look around.

    12. Tricia*

      Check out some government jobs – any place that people apply for benefits – lots of times there are employees who do nothing but adjudicate those benefit applications.

    13. London Calling*

      Finance is a great job for spending a lot of time staring at screens, especially if you’re doing any sort of data analysis, because you’re surrounded by people doing the same thing.

    14. Tango*

      Accounts payable might be a good fit?! Finance/Accounting is also generally a good area to get into as there’s more jobs than people.

    15. Plain Jane*

      I did inventory/data entry at a time in my life when I was recovering from burnout. It was exactly what I needed. Mine did involve carrying and opening boxes, but not everywhere has that. It was wonderfully boring. I highly recommend it!

    16. Snoozing not schmoozing*

      I worked at a county government assessor’s office for a while, checking the accuracy of property on microfilm and occasionally doing research with plat maps. It was routine but not uninteresting. The killer part for me was having to be in a cubicle farm. There wasn’t much talking on the job, and breaks and lunch could be social or solo.

  6. Free Meerkats*

    With my pending retirement, my managers have decided to hire someone in advance of me leaving to learn the ropes here. The City never does this, we always wait until someone is gone and then fill the hole.

    Part of that is to rewrite the job specification to reflect what the job actually is, not what HR thought it was 10 years ago. There have been two people in this job, one from when the program was started in 1987 and me, who was promoted when he retired about 4 years ago. Neither one of us would be qualified under the current job spec. :) I have a good handle on the technical requirements, but writing the management parts will be a learning experience for me.

    If you were writing a job spec for your manager, what would you like to see in it?

    2. 867-5309*

      Usually there is just a line or two about managing a team,

      – Managing a team of x people.
      – Ability to hire, develop and grow talent.

    3. Jane*

      If I were the manager (and the person coming into the role) I would like to get some sense of how much time you spend in each task, because otherwise I might end up making assumptions based on how complicated the task looks on paper. That’s what happened to me in my new role. One of my tasks is to process and file Widget Forms, and there’s a full page and a half of instructions about how to do that so I assumed I would need a detailed tracking sheet and would spend a lot of time on those. Nope, another department does most of the heavy lifting and is responsible for keeping track. Instead I spend most of my time doing something that had at most a modest paragraph, but which involves “collecting information from other departments.” Departments which don’t feel like they should have to do this, and do a half-assed job and drag their feet (which is also something that would have been nice to see in the document, in a more politically-correct way).

      1. Zee*

        I second this. I re-wrote my job description in my last job, and I broke it down into something like:
        Area A (30%)
        Area B (40%)
        Area C (15%)
        Area D (15%)
        With bullet points of what fell into each area.

        I love seeing this when I’m applying for jobs, and I wish it was more common! It’s super common in my field to have a job title like “X and Y Director/Manager/Coordinator/whatever”, which could mean a 50/50 split between X and Y, but it could be a 90/10 split too.

        It was also really helpful for my boss, because if she knew that things in Area B peak in July, I really can’t take on anything else. But if September is a busy month in Area D, that’s not actually that much of a workload increase.

        Also a note: in the above situation, Area D was “general administration/miscellaneous”, which I strongly encourage everyone to account for in their time. It’s easy to ignore tasks here and there that don’t exactly fall into your job description, but 15% of my time is almost an entire day a week! And in my current job, they left out a lot of those things and only put in the really big points, and now I’m spending so much time on things I thought I wasn’t going to be responsible for that I am actively applying for other jobs.

    4. Policy Wonk*

      Since you say you work for the city, I recommend you start with your own HR office. Governments often have standardized language for use in position descriptions. I’d hate to have you spend a lot of time crafting something you like only to have them replace it with whatever they have in the approved position guide. If there is standard language, ask how much you can add to it to get what you want.

      Good luck!

  7. Rayray*

    I have a job interview on Tuesday!

    This is an organization I’ve tried to get into in the past, they’re routinely named as a top place to work. A friend works there and loves it. I passed the phone screen and assessment for the role this week. It’s moving fast but I’m excited. My company has recently laid off many people and I’ve been casually hunting for months because I feared the layoffs would happen. Although I was spared, I kept on looking. This would be a much better job for many reasons!

    My friend sent me some questions that might get asked in the interview and gave me some tips and told me about the company core values. I also plan to use the magic question. The interview is over zoom so I reserved a study room at the library. I tend to get nervous and flustered in interviews but zoom may be easier.

    What are your best interview tips for success?

    1. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      Dry run with a friend! Not always possible but very useful. Have about 3 good examples of work you’ve done that you can use as different examples. When you get a tricky question, rephrase it to check you have the gist of it. Slow down your breathing.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Definitely practice some of the standard issue questions out loud, before hand. things like why are you looking for a new job, why are you interested in THIS job, strengths and weaknesses, etc.

    3. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      I’ve done a lot of virtual interviews lately. Tips would be:
      – Dress as you would for an in person. But be prepared for the person on the other end to be dressed down.
      -Some platforms didn’t let me blur or use a fake background, so make sure what’s behind you is neutral.
      -Since they can only see your face, you need to use facial expressions to show interest, smile, nod, look directly at the camera

      But those really are the only differences. Be yourself. Be prepared. Ask questions. And good luck!!!

    4. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Since you’ll be on Zoom, don’t be afraid to set up plenty of notes you can peek at to answer questions. just spread them out on the desk in front of you.

      Google some lists of typical questions and then think of ways you could answer them with an example from your previous experience — in terms of what the new job will need you to do. Write out the full answer, but use just some prompts for the actual cheat sheets. (Or bold just the good bits, if you’re really afraid of losing a script to lean on in a panicked moment.)

      Also, don’t be afraid to say that you’re nervous. That can be part of your Tell Me About Yourself. You could do a quick intro and then say “I’ve been looking forward to interviewing with your company for so long — I’ve heard so much good about it whether in the ranking lists or even from a friend who works here. I’m super nervous – but excited about this opportunity.” If the interviewer is a nice human, they’re likely to reassure you at this point, and then you can both put the fretting aside.

      1. LunaLena*

        Adding to this, not only be prepared with notes (including questions you want to ask about the role and/or organization), but feel free to openly take notes! I’ve been to many interviews, both in-person and on Zoom, where the candidates take notes and refer to them throughout the interview. Sometimes they say “I’m just taking some notes; writing it down helps me remember.”

        Good luck!

        1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

          Yes mention you are taking notes, because they can’t see that and you don’t want to give the impression that you’re looking at your phone or otherwise distracted.

    5. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

      that’s awesome, congrats!

      i also get nervous and flustered during interviews, so i practice as much as i can beforehand – running through questions, taking notes on the company, etc.

      but i also try to remember to think of interviews as more conversations, and also that i’m interviewing them as much as they’re interviewing me. thinking of it as more of a two-way street helps. :)

    6. Kramerica Industries*

      For my video interview, I kept a sticky note at the side of my computer screen that said “BREAHTE. SLOW DOWN.” and I think that helped me to calm down since I have a tendency to babble/lose my point when I’m nervous.

    7. WantonSeedStitch*

      The last time I interviewed and had a good idea about questions that might get asked, I sat down and wrote out answers to the questions in advance. I didn’t try to memorize them, but the act of writing them down helped me really think them through fully and remember details (these were mostly behavioral interview style questions of the “tell me about a time when…” type). Also, if you can pick out some stuff you’ve done in your work that shows that you embody those company core values, write that down too.

    8. StellaBella*

      Go to the archives here on interviewing. see the right side there >>> category/interviewing and ask the magic question:
      Thinking back to people who have been in this position previously, what differentiated the ones who were good from the ones who were really great?
      Good luck!

    9. Lina*

      Answer the questions! I recently interviewed (successfully) for a new role, and two of my colleagues were on interview panels for similar roles. My two colleagues complained that almost none of the interviewees actually fully answered the question that was asked, they either gave one sentence and then stopped or they gave an answer that was unrelated to the original question.

      When I debriefed my interview with a mentor who was on the interview panel, she said that one of the reasons I was offered the job was that I was the only candidate who fully answered the questions they asked with enough detail that they could understand a) my experience with the skill set, b) my role in using the skills on current projects, and c) how I thought my past experience related to or would be useful to the skill set they were hiring for.

    10. Perpetual Job Searcher*

      I record myself answering the “tell me about yourself” question until I’m happy with what I’m saying. Then for zoom interviews I leave up a bulleted list in Word so I don’t get flustered. This question always flusters me and it sets the tone for the rest of the interview, so it helps to NOT be flustered in the first 3 minutes! Good luck!

    11. Snoozing not schmoozing*

      Lean very slightly forward when the other person is speaking. It makes you look more interested. Then lean back ever so slightly in your chair when you’re talking. It makes you look confident and relaxed. Most people unconsciously do the opposite and it makes them look nervous or overly aggressive on the forward move, and bored on the listening.

  8. Kimmy Schmidt*

    I got a new job (with a 20% pay increase) and I’m so excited!

    What’s your best advice for learning the new style at a new job? Basically, I want to do everything in my power to avoid being that “well at my last job” person. How do you leave behind your bad work habits?

    1. Dragonfly7*

      I take a lot of notes so I don’t mix up policies and procedures if the jobs are similar. I also openly acknowledge that I don’t want to be the “well, at my last job…” person, which usually gets a laugh, but some folks ARE interested in hearing what was different in case that method might work better for them.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I usually give myself 2-3 months to hold my tongue. I’ll make quiet notes to myself about “Maybe this could be improved,” but I try to immerse myself and ask lots of questions to understand why they may do something that seems inefficient or wrong to me. Then, after 2-3 months, I’ll know which ones truly need fixing and which ones may seem odd but are okay for now.

    3. anonymous73*

      Ask a lot of questions and be open to new ideas. And when being trained, don’t question the “why” of the process. Sometimes it may not make logical sense to you, but there may be a legit reason it’s done a certain way. If there are processes that are done only because “It’s always been done that way” there may be an opportunity to help improve them, but only after you’ve been there for a while and see how everything works together.

      1. Eff Walsingham*

        Ugh! Yes! Please don’t keep asking, “Why?” during training as it bogs the process down. I was a trainer for many months at my last job, and generally the people who were the most receptive during training did the best in the long run. People who seemed to want to direct the conversation, ask “Why?”, make suggestions, or come up with theories about the company or products… they didn’t seem to retain as much useful information and therefore the training took longer. It’s better to take notes, particularly if notes are helpful for you, and do ask questions about what you’re learning to show that your mind is engaged.

        We had some people rise to ‘superstar’ status in quite a short time while I was there, but they started off by just soaking up information and thinking about it during the training process. Then, when they later asked, “If the new system can do X, then are we going to add that function to increase efficiency?” nobody seemed to feel like they were overstepping. Even though the answer might be, “Nobody who works in this building is privy to that information.” Because they took the trouble to understand the status quo before proposing solutions, others were more willing to consider that they might be right.

    4. BlueDijon*

      Congrats! The way I’ve been approaching this has been to assume there’s a good reason for everything, and to ask as many questions as I can to understand those reasons. That gives you the space to ask all your questions, and by assuming positive intent it helps them give more context and additional information that might come up in a more defensive way if the practice was questioned in a more challenging way. It also lets the question turn into more of a conversation that’s based in understanding – and if you understand something, and can demonstrate that (which will probably take time as well, like Anonymous Educator mentioned too), it makes a conversation about potential changes a lower stakes, more open type of chat too.

    5. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      Congratulations! I just got a new job too.

      One thing with starting something new is to be patient. You will not learn everything you need to know in a week, month, or even a year. Don’t let imposter syndrome set in. Listen, ask appropriate questions. Ask for clear ramp up expectations from your leader.

    6. Me ... Just Me*

      If your job is a staff job, just be ready to listen and learn the current processes. Later, once you’ve got some time under your belt, make suggestions. But I wouldn’t do this for the first few months.

      If your job is a management one, you’ll still need to be ready to listen and learn the current processes. But, in this role you’ll likely be expected to implement changes to the process that you foresee need changing. I would not direct change immediately (to your reports) but rather information gather and then report up to your manager/director the things you’ve observed/learned and see if this is an area that they’ve also identified as needing addressed. I wouldn’t offer a solution as part of this discussion unless they enthusiastically respond with something along the lines of “that’s why we hired you” and, “this is absolutely a problem, do you have anything in mind to address it?”

      People hate change. Even positive change is very uncomfortable for a whole lot of people. As the new person, you need to make sure that you have the authority, responsibility, and credibility to enact change.

      1. Eff Walsingham*

        *Applause*

        This is all wonderful stuff!

        Truly, people hate change. Even necessary and / or positive change is usually met with some resistance at first.

  9. TimeBlind*

    Two weeks ago I was in despair thinking I’d blown my chances at a dream job with a dream org because of messing up past dates of employment on my resume and background check. Well, I haven’t heard back from any of the HR people, but I did just get a notification from a shipment company that 48lbs of packages from the org’s home city are out for delivery to me today! I’m guessing that’s a good sign. :)

    1. Rayray*

      I remember seeing your post. I know I tend to over think and worry and would’ve been a wreck in your situation so I’m very happy for you that things seem to be working out. :)

      1. TimeBlind*

        It was all the computer stuff I will need for the job! (I had already accepted the conditional offer, which is double what I’ve ever made anywhere else, and more than I ever thought I’d make working in academica/nonprofits) Though I told them I didn’t need monitors/peripherals, they sent them anyways. Oh well, Those will stay in boxes in my closet. (I have a KVM switch for the ergo monitors/keyboard/mouse/etc mounted to my standing desk in my home office to go from my personal computer to a work computer.)

        1. Can Can Cannot*

          Congratulations. And I agree with the value of a good KVM switch. I am typing this on my personal computer, but with a couple keystrokes I can switch my screen to my work computer without needing to move out of my chair. I love it.

          1. TimeBlind*

            I will evangelize about KVMs to anyone who will listen. “But why don’t you just use a USB hub?” They just don’t understand the joy of The Button. *PLONK* Work mode! *PLONK* Play mode!

    3. WellRed*

      I think it’s a little weird to not have an offer if they are sending you stuff. What if you don’t like the offer?

      1. TimeBlind*

        I had accepted a conditional offer, and have a presumptive start date, but they needed to run their full background check, drug screen, etc before it’s “official.” I’ve worked in this type of org before (but in direct client-facing and care roles, not the research/informatics side) and this order of operations is pretty normal. Also considering the type of information I’m going to be working with, and being fully remote, I’m not surprised they sprang for a more in-depth background check.

          1. TimeBlind*

            The confusion is understandable, my post was pretty vague if you hadn’t read/remembered it from a fortnight ago! :) For some reason I was having difficulty getting the AAM site to load so when I finally did I just “spat” it out into the comment box to take seize the moment, ha ha.

  10. Jane*

    I am trying to parse out where the line is between being helpful and overcommitting myself while trying to get an “exceeds expectations” on my performance review. For example, my supervisor and I were talking the other day about how we have to get a user to do a training module, but for various work reasons the person doesn’t have access to our systems to take it. I found myself blurting out that I would try to track the training down and get a PDF version of it, which is proving onerous and time-consuming. I want to be seen as a supportive team player but I also don’t want to keep stretching myself too thin. Does anyone else have a rule of thumb or a way to figure out if you’re overcommitting yourself vs. doing stuff that will make your boss see you as a big asset?

    1. ferrina*

      First, put the performance review out of your mind. Those can be notoriously subjective- I had one experience where my team of 3 got cut to 1, and still got 80% of my team’s goals done (so 270% of one person’s job). My boss still gave me “meets expectations” because she expected me to do well when I had to do all that work. A good supervisor will understand nuance; a bad one won’t care. And that will be out of your control.

      What is in your control is your own prioritization and time management. How many hours do you work per week? Are you getting the expected work done? (i.e., meeting goals and deadlines?) Then how much time do you have left over? Do you actively make suggestions and look for solutions? Do you flag for your boss when something is proving more time consuming than planned (so your boss can help you prioritize)? Those are the nuances that I would look for. (And don’t run yourself ragged for the sake of being a “team player”. Part of being a team player is taking care of the whole team, including yourself.)

    2. RagingADHD*

      Well, I think the key is to focus on results rather than process. Whether or not you are an asset isn’t about how hard you work, but about the results you produce.

      This avenue of getting the training doesn’t seem to be working, so if you just give up entirely you have wasted a lot of time and effort with no result. You’re probably better off thinking of a different way that to continue pursuing this one way.

      1. Jane*

        Results aren’t a good metric, as I always get very good results, I just feel stretched thin. I understand the very basic concept that something needs to be pursued a different way if one way doesn’t work. That wasn’t my question.

        1. RagingADHD*

          The question you literally asked was: “a way to figure out if you’re overcommitting yourself vs. doing stuff that will make your boss see you as a big asset?”

          The thing is, those two items are not mutually exclusive. There is no VS. You could be a great asset to the company and also overcommit yourself in a way that isn’t healthy for you.

          If you are getting tangible results that are worth more than the time you spent on it, you are being an asset, and your boss will see you that way (unless they are stupid).

          If you are spending a lot of time and effort pursuing things for little or no result, you are not being a good asset.

          If you are working so hard that it isn’t worth the money or potential advancement, that has nothing to do with whether your boss sees you as an asset. That’s about your own boundaries with work, and you have to decide where that tipping point is for yourself.

    3. Kes*

      I think a key question here is, what would your supervisor probably prefer you to be doing? Is tracking down the training the most important thing or are there other tasks they would probably consider a higher priority? It’s nice to offer to help but not at the cost of derailing your main work in most cases. In this cases it seems like it looked like something you could easily take on for them and get out of the way but is proving otherwise, so I think it’s reasonable to limit the amount of time you spend on this one thing and instead bring the challenges you’re seeing back up to your supervisor so they can judge if there might be an alternate or better approach, if they want you to keep going, or if they want to take it back off your plate

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        Oh, this. Very much. Like when a member of my team goes investigating everywhere, turning over every rock on a treasure hunt for a piece of information that is absolutely not critical to their assignment, and then doesn’t have time to take another assignment that needs to be done because they spent so much time finding that piece of irrelevant information. (Fortunately, I think most of them are over this by now.)

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          Er, that was not supposed to be done yet. To add: I would finish up the thing you said you’d do, because you said you’d do it, unless you think it’s going to take a really long time and make it hard for you to accomplish the other stuff you need to do. If that’s the case, I’d go to your boss and say “hey, I was trying to do this, but it’s proving really time consuming and challenging. Before I spend more time on it, do you consider it a priority, or is there anything else you’d prefer me to work on instead?”

          1. Invisible today*

            I’d say you should follow up saying you’ve looked/tried xyz but no luck yet. Then ask explicitly if you should continue to search or if they’re okay with you moving on.

  11. Pascall*

    I’m an hourly employee and in the interest of keeping me with my current workplace, I was recommended to apply to an actual Director position here in my department. My grandboss knows I’m interviewing with other orgs, simply because I would prefer to WFH. But this director position would be a $40k raise and would be managing the district’s recruitment and retention plan.

    Very hard to pass up, so I threw my hat in the ring with the idea that I could put up with the commute for an additional $40k and also it may put me in a position to push our leadership more towards hybrid working options in general. Not sure if this is overly optimistic of me, but I know for a fact that it’s been a topic of interest in some of the upper echelons here and there.

    We’ll see what happens. There are other applicants who are in salaried positions who probably have more experience than me, but it’s hard to ignore when someone on the hiring committee tells you to do it. Am I being a little overly optimistic?

    1. Observer*

      You sound reasonable. It doesn’t sound like you EXPECT to get the job. It’s not unreasonable to think you have a chance, though.

      I wouldn’t stop applying elsewhere, though.

    2. ferrina*

      By applying when you were recommended to apply? No, that sounds very normal and smart! All you are saying is that you are interested! That’s a good thing to do when you are indeed interested! I don’t know who told you that you are overly optimistic, but I’m giving them some side-eye.

      1. Pascall*

        Nobody specific told me that, just my internal imposter syndrome I guess, haha!

        Thank you for the support!

    3. Pop*

      I’m not sure what your current salary is, but a $40k increase is a LOT of money. It would cover gas for commute, sure, but also probably some other things that would make working in the office/having less time at home easier: you could get lunch out more, instead of packing it or meal prepping; you could get takeout for dinner more, for when you’re too tired to cook; you could pay for a cleaning service, so you don’t spend your limited time at home cleaning; pay for a dog walking service or doggy daycare so a pet doesn’t mind being at home as much, etc etc etc. My husband and I have collectively increased our household salary by about $35k over the last six years and while we’re not rolling in money, we feel a LOT less stressed about money on a day-to-day basis and are able to save for the future.

      1. Pascall*

        My current salary is $42k, so it would be double what I currently make. The director position starts at $84k. It would be a HUGE jump.

        A cleaning service is a fantastic idea- I keep forgetting that’s an option lol.

        Thank you for the info and support!

    4. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      It’s like Allison’s says…apply and then put the job out of your mind :)

  12. CatCat*

    Anyone willing to share tales of mortification in which your parent or (other parental type figure) interfered in your work life?

    I was thinking about this yesterday with the post about whether to allow one’s mother to help make connections (it definitely involves whether the mother is the interfering, overbearing type!)

    1. Andjazzy*

      Not work, but my MIL had an RA at my husband’s college request a restraining order against her because she called him

      2. Berkeleyfarm*

        I am sure people here who work in education especially higher ed have stories. I think we had an “RA Stories” post fairly recently.

        A dearly departed friend of mine was the assistant to the Dean of Students for a very well known and prestigious law school. She had a lot of helicopter parent stories, and a few of students who really didn’t want to be in law school but Mommy and Daddy insisted, so were trying to flunk out. (This is a well known school – horrible waste of a spot on someone who didn’t want one IMO.)

    2. Jellyfish*

      This is low stakes, but one of my parents endorsed me for dozens of skills on LinkedIn. Most of them were skills I do not actually have…
      It was well meaning and sweet, but definitely not helpful!

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        My dad does this still. It’s how I know he’s finally logged into LinkedIn for the first time in months – I suddenly have all these random recommendations. He does at least choose things that are actually relevant to what I do, but he’s not really going to know if I’m good at them or not.

    3. ferrina*

      My mom did the opposite- recommended against me working at her workplace. I was in high school and had volunteered at the non-profit where she worked. Unbeknownst to me, they were interested in having me work for them during the summer. She tried to shoot down the idea, but the hiring manager completely ignored her. I had no idea that they were even considering me until they offered me the job (it turned out fine- we worked in two completely different departments and had roles that didn’t interact or impact each other at all)

    4. RagingADHD*

      When I was home from college looking for a summer job, my mom answered a call from a recruiter and barged into the bathroom *while I was audibly using the toilet* to bring me the phone.

      If the bathroom noises didn’t ruin it, I’m sure hearing me shriek “Mooom!!!!!” didn’t do me any favors.

    6. Bagpuss*

      Not my parents, but I did get an application letter from somneone’s mother…
      The ‘child’ would have been at least 22, with a degree.
      It was also a really bad application – saying that he was interested in specifc areas of law, which were fields we don’t cover, for instance.
      The mother mentioned in the letter that she was a GP, so a professional person herself, which made it even weirder from my perspective.

    7. MJ*

      I was moving back to my home country (but a different city) after 20+ years abroad. My parents had moved to this new city around the same time I moved abroad and I was planning to stay with them for the first few months to give me time to find somewhere to live.

      My dad offered to scope out a driving route and parking options near my new job – great. But I was mortified on my first day when one of my colleagues said “Oh yes, I was chatting to your dad in the lobby and brought him up to see the office.” I’m in my 50s and moved to / lived in another country for decades. I didn’t need my dad checking out my job like I was a teenager! Figuring out a good route traffic-wise; helpful. Hanging about in the building lobby until someone took him up to the restricted level and let him into the office; embarrassing as all f*ck.

      1. Eff Walsingham*

        WOWWW!!!!

        How utterly mortifying, and yet I can readily imagine my father-in-law doing this. He loves to talk and meet new people, and he *always* wants to be super helpful to all of us “kids”! (We’re not kids.) And yet he’s extremely lovable in his own weird way.

        1. MJ*

          Yeah, I just remind myself it’s coming from a loving heart.

          But I got a chuckle when I offered to have one of my friends in another city do something for him and he said maybe it would be better to ask someone more mature. I’m like “50 years old isn’t mature enough?” Proof positive that he still thinks I’m a flighty teenager. :)

      2. Snoozing not schmoozing*

        I worked in a cool old building, and I think most of the staff brought in family members at some point to see it, and introduced them to co-workers while they were there. The workers ranged from 20s through late 60s, so it wasn’t just the younger ones doing it. Heck, our division head brought his mother in when she was in town, and made a point of introducing her to me because we had a similar sense of humor and would hit it off. We did!

        1. MJ*

          Bringing in your family to see where you work I’m totally fine with. It’s having your parent visit your new employer to check them out before you’ve even arrived in the country and met them in person yourself that’s embarrassing!

    8. Cookies for Breakfast*

      My father is an endless source of unsolicited advice, and careers are his favourite topic. He had the same public sector job for 30+ years, knows next to nothing about job searching and career paths today, and yet loves to tell people what they should be doing next. It’s usually some flavour of going back to school or applying for a government or academia job (in our home country! Known for nepotism and mindblowing inefficiency!).

      I told him in no uncertain terms to stop trying that with me years ago (it took MANY instances of telling in no uncertain terms). I also had to tell him to stop giving career advice to my friends, because he would often bring up the subject with those he met. So now he’s resorted to telling me that a certain friend’s job has been on his mind, and asking me to pass on the message (nope, not happening). The conversation always starts with something like “I know you don’t want my advice, but perhaps Fergus might appreciate knowing…”, and ends with “just trying to be helpful”.

      A friend have a running joke about this. She has job hopped quite a bit, and because our families are close, my father gets to find out every time she’s looking. Most recently, she was trying to leave a Big-Brothery call centre-type job which was taking a big toll on her mental health. My father mentioned a huge recruitment drive at a government branch she has lots of transferable skills for, so I figured I’d share the tip for once. We visited the applications portal, and…there were zero vacancies listed. None. Nil. Not a single job opening to even read about.

      My friend and I had a good laugh about it. I told my father too, so he could see what I mean when I say his sources are not relevant. I see a glimmer of hope that this is the time he stops for good.

    9. Hillary*

      Parents at one of my past employers routinely interfered in their kids’ work lives, but overall it was for the greater good. It was a manufacturer that hires a lot of summer help. It pays well, but it’s hot, hard work.

      Parents would make their kids apply and take the job if they hadn’t found something to do for the summer, and the jobs were inadvertently designed to make people want to go back to college and figure out what they wanted to do with their lives.

      1. Asenath*

        One of my grandfathers did something similar with one of my uncles. Well, officially his interference was on the level of “If you don’t want to continue your education (probably insert here some comments on the importance of education) you’re going to get a paying job”, but I was never sure if it was the lack of local paying jobs or my grandfather’s influence that caused my uncle to work at a important job, one many local men did for their working life, but also a difficult and somewhat dangerous one that didn’t pay very much, especially at the “young and unskilled laborer” stage. After a short period, my uncle decided to continue his education, and in fact qualified for and worked in a much more pleasant and higher-paying one for his adult life.

    10. Texan In Exile*

      In this vein – a VP at my old job likes how I write and asked me to help her high-school daughter with daughter’s college essays.

      I did not want to do this, mostly because the daughter should be writing her own essays, but also because I see this as a way that privilege perpetuates itself.

    11. Meep*

      Not my parents but I worked in a grocery store in an influential area from 2011-2013 roughly. We had one girl, Julia, who would quit every other week because she just didn’t want to be there. Cue her mom marching her back in insisting that she didn’t quit.

    12. Wishful thinking*

      My granny has form for doing this type of thing. One of her more recent ones was at a time when we got snow forecast (I’m in a country that where snow is a treat that normally shuts us down) and my aunt was working as a teacher.
      One day, my aunt is at work and walks past reception. The receptionist says “Auntie, your mother called.”
      My aunt does a double take wondering what on earth has gone wrong for her mother to be calling while she’s at work.
      Receptionist: “She said it’s forecast to snow later and we (the school) might like to take that on board.”
      She once called my uncle (working in a skyscraper in another country) to tell him it was raining, got his boss instead and told the boss to pass on the message.

    13. chilipepper*

      When I was 42ish I got a master’s degree. My parents had recently moved to be near my family and the grandkid. So I invited them to the graduation.

      The chair of the department walked up to congratulate me and my dad launched into a long diatribe about his contributions to my success in this degree starting when I was a child. I was mortified both at his monopoly of the chair and the way he inserted himself into my accomplishment!

    14. Striped Sandwiches*

      A much older friend tried to sell me on hiring her son for a job. I wondered why he didn’t just investigate the job himself. Turns out he was on holidays with his girlfriend. No idea why the mom thought she should be calling around trying to find him a job. BTW he’s a mid level professional.

  13. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    How should I handle team building exercises? Now I thought I was over my fear but last weeks collection of no COVID safety ( my body doesn’t do infections. It’s weeks of misery, no matter what), crowds, not being able to escape easily did my head in. I thought I was better than years ago when I started crying during an especially publicly humiliating activity. How can I avoid these all together? What should I say to my boss? Do I need a doctors note,

    1. ferrina*

      I’m so sorry you’re having to worry about this! This sounds like a lot of stress on you!

      It sounds like they are making you do this in-person, right? I’d definitely plead “doctor’s recommendation” (and get a note if you can. just in case.) If your team does remote work, can you offer a remote alternative? In my experience bosses do better when you say “I can’t do X, but I can do Y” rather than just “I can’t do X” (you shouldn’t have to do this for something like an in-person non-essential exercise during a pandemic, but it could help you get what you need). Good luck!

    2. RagingADHD*

      This is a very extreme response and your first port of call should be your therapist, or if you don’t have one, your company’s EAP. If there’s not one, try your GP.

      If it’s coming up immediately and you can’t deal, call in sick. But you need a longer – term strategy to cope with a pretty normal / common work expectation.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Well I do go to therapy bi weekly but being stuck in a crowd with no escape during a pandemic surge is actually pretty scary. With public humiliation you can pretend nobody cares but the specter of illness and lifelong disability is too much. I survived almost 2 hours

        1. RagingADHD*

          It’s great that you have someone IRL to ask who is familiar with your personal needs. That is where you should work out a viable strategy that pertains to your specific situation.

          Being “stuck in a crowd with no escape” doesn’t sound like a typical team building event, so either the situation itself is unusual, or your response to it is making it hard for you to see options. Either way, talk to your IRL support about it.

          1. peasblossom*

            I completely agree! OP, check in with someone who knows you personally and ideally knows the situation who can be a barometer. Obviously it’s not ok to be stuck in a crowd with no escape especially considering Covid, but as RagingADHD points out, that would be an extraordinarily unusual team building event. Talking to someone you know (and ideally knows the company) might help you determine how much of it is the company being way out of line and how much of it is your own anxieties.

      2. MeepMeep02*

        In a pandemic, I think it’s a perfectly normal response. 1 in 5 COVID cases end up with Long COVID, which is a disabling illness. Even without that, OP has a perfectly reasonable apprehension of being miserably ill for weeks after such an activity, and has a perfectly reasonable desire to not be miserably ill.

        I would just take a sick day for every such activity. There’s kinda no reasoning with the people who want to “move on” from COVID and pretend it’s not there. The only thing one can do is find workarounds that let them keep up their cute little pretend game (until they are the ones with COVID) while staying away from risky activities.

        1. RagingADHD*

          Not wanting to do it is reasonable. Plenty of reasons to not want to do it, even before the pandemic.

          But the reference to breaking down crying in public and the general panicked tone is unusually intense in the context of a) a future or hypothetical thing, not something that is actually happening at the moment, and b) a pretty common work thing that happened routinely before the pandemic, and in many places is already considered routine again.

          Also the references to fear, escape, and “I thought I was better.” None of that is a normal reaction for an adult making a reasonable judgment about what they do or don’t want to do.

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Oh I was freaked out because it happened and it was terrible and I’d like to prevent this from reoccurring. I understand that hazing is normal but like it’s not related to my job or its functions! Random public humiliation should be optional ( and I think people who like being embarrassed in public are the weird ones tbh. Along with people who like getting sick)

            1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

              Wait – your team building has purposeful public humiliation? Like hazing? Yeah, call in sick every time.

    3. Anonymous healthcare person*

      I’m so sorry that team building exercises even pre-pandemic were so tough for you. If it was a “normal” team-building activity (that is, NOT the kind of thing that engenders horror on AAM threads), a therapist who specializes in work/social anxiety would probably be helpful for the longer term. Actually even if it was one of those horror inducing work experiences, a therapist could probably help you to work through that! Anxiety is a nasty, nasty thing but fortunately highly treatable. Of course please ignore this comment if I have got the wrong end of the stick. Good luck on getting support from your doctor with this current situation!

      Another thought: some jobs don’t involve team building exercises hardly at all, maybe consider looking around in and out of your field to see if there are other employment options for you? Again best of luck!

      1. RagingADHD*

        Meh, you might need a different bar than what engenders horror on AAM threads. I’ve seen some bizarrely horrified reactions to totally average and reasonable things.

        1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

          Oh it was horrifying for me but at least nobody verbally mocked us. I managed to calm another freaking out person by reminding her that we could not get fired for failing at this activity! Yea most people don’t know that public humiliation is very triggering.

      2. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Yea my therapist works mostly with CBT which doesn’t work well for things that did happen and were worse than you thought!

        Yea my job does do too much wacky time wasting nonsense. I don’t have the energy to be promoted anyway

      3. Eff Walsingham*

        Your response as described doesn’t sound extreme to me. There’s still a pandemic going on. I wouldn’t be prepared to subject myself to a group activity involving 100 people. Last month I was part of an audience of maybe 60 people, and that was extremely stressful, even though we were just sitting together and not supposed to be interacting. And although I could physically have gotten up and left at any time, there’s an expectation at the theatre that you don’t just stand up and walk out unless you’re rude or in medical distress. It wasn’t *that bad* but it was an uncomfortable situation.

        That wasn’t where I caught Covid though. That happened a couple of weeks later, and has been about as much fun as I anticipated. My body has difficulty throwing off respiratory viruses. Fortunately I’m triple vaxxed.

        1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

          Yea I’m triple vaxxed and my body acts * brand new* ( vomit warning( I’ll be like dude you got three shots AND COVID before and my body’s like nope gotta cough til you throw up!

          1. Eff Walsingham*

            Same! Fortunately, for me that was only one day. But I woke up this morning coughing and feeling like cr@p again. It’s been almost 3 weeks. It’s depressing.

    4. Can Can Cannot*

      If it’s a single day or two, go ahead and take a sick day. If it is multiple days, consider your options. If your apprehension is due to a medical issue, you might be able to formally ask for an ADA accommodation. If it is not medical, you can talk to either your boss or HR and ask them to excuse you from the event.

  14. Gnome*

    Is it a red flag if a smaller company (under 100 staff) that’s young (10-20 yes old) emphasizes their social events, is that a red flag? We’re talking wine tasting, camping, hiking, beer garden social hours all listed on the website.

    Does this indicate that they are still in startup mode?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Not necessarily. I’m just spitballing, but here are some reasons:
      * Corporate inertia.
      * They keep hiring young employees and think (or get actual feedback) that that’s what young employees want.
      * They consider these to be important perqs, regardless of age/experience of employees.
      * That the person who’s in charge of doing this stuff is really energetic and good at their job, and so you see a lot of this stuff on the website. Whereas there’s not really anything for the infosecurity people or facilities management department to post.

    2. fueled by coffee*

      I think this depends on what their other benefits are! Is this a “we have great health insurance and PTO, and also we do an annual wine tasting” or is it “our benefits are terrible but look! Wine! Camping!”

      Also, if these types of activities are not your cup of tea, are they (truly) optional or a requirement (and are you okay with that)?

      1. Hen in a Windstorm*

        Yeah, I was just reading a Glassdoor recently for a <100 company where the pro was: bowling on Fridays and the con was: low salary, management doesn't make expectations clear.

      2. Gnome*

        There were maybe 12 things listed for social events, which struck me as a lot of emphasis on socializing vs working. They are also apparently very into providing food, which feels very start-up to me. They do have other benefits (401k, health, etc.). It does seem to skew young, but isn’t entirely young.

        1. Eff Walsingham*

          For me the food is a yellow flag. Didn’t startups originally feed people in lieu of letting them go home?

          I would be asking questions to try and see if their idea of work-life balance and mine were aligned.

          1. anonymous cable knit sweater*

            It’s a potential flag for me if it’s not inclusive, a lot of outdoor activities can be unintentionally ableist. Camping? See every post about sharing hotel rooms with coworkers, ew. A day trip with smores or hiking would be less sketchy to me. Do the wine tasting events offer anything for people who don’t drink?

          2. David*

            I’m sure some startups have done that, but the problem isn’t the food, the problem is not letting people go home.

      3. Excel-sior*

        I think this hits the nail on the head. If the perks are truly optional and in addition to good benefits, then great. But definitely worth checking to see if that really is the case.

    3. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      Could be a post COVID (I know we are not post it!) response, our company is big on that to push people back into the office but also build team rapport.

    4. Bagpuss*

      It may also be that the person responsible for their website / social media enjoys those events , and/or that they are being told they need to be active on their social medisaand those are things it’s easy to update, hwheras writing ‘proper’ contnet needs more time and energy, possibly from someone more senior.

      I wouldn’t see it as a red flag in itself, but do looka bit more closely at the rest of the benefits, and maybe ask about it in the interview to trtry to get a feel for whether this is all mandatory fun, or genuinely optional

    5. Paris Geller*

      I think in a vacuum I would consider that a yellow flag. Not a “run screaming” red flag, but something that most people want to be aware of and poke around a bit more.
      HOWEVER, I think for some people (including me) it would be a red flag. It just doesn’t sound like a company culture I would enjoy.

      1. Me!*

        Me either. Food is always nice, but I’m not usually into socializing outside the office with coworkers. Particularly in lieu of pay, benefits, etc.

    6. Rose*

      If they are touting these things in an effort to hide a lack of benefits like good PTO, health insurance, 401K, flexibility, etc – then yes, red flag. If they are touting these things as perks in addition to real benefits, then I’d say it is only a red flag if a) you get these sense that these are “required”/”expected”, and b) you dislike this kind of thing in a work environment.

    7. PollyQ*

      If it’s not the kind of culture you like, then it might be a personal red flag. By itself, I wouldn’t take it as a general red flag for the company though.

    8. Esmeralda*

      Take a look at SAS for instance. That’s not a startup, and those kinds of benefits are meant to appeal to people who have a lot of choices about where they work.

      It really depends on the employer.

      If you don’t like those things, and you get the sense that “everyone must participate in camping and wine tasting”, then it’s not for you…

  15. ThatGirl*

    My husband, who was totally miserable in his job, has had several interviews with two different colleges over the past two weeks, and was a wee bit stressed about the timing of potential offers. This morning he heard from college A, who wants one final interview with a VP on Tuesday. And he was a little worried about hearing from college B. And then half an hour later… they called him too! And want to check his references!

    So… everything’s coming up Millhouse!

    2. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      Congratulations. (And that is one of my oft quotes Simpsons lines, right after “They have the internet on computers now”)

      1. ThatGirl*

        My husband is an enormous (first 10 seasons) Simpsons fan, so yeah, a lot of quotes get thrown around here.

  16. Part-time in a full-time world*

    After 8 years of aggressively paying off my student loans and 2 years of debating, I finally asked to decrease my FTE to 0.8. My manager approved it… but she doesn’t seem too happy. And now I’m feeling weird about. And confused because my manager also works part-time. She knows my salary; I don’t need 90k to live. I’d rather have time to myself.

    Is there anyone out there who has chosen to work part-time who can reassure me??

    1. missb*

      Not me, but my dh works part time. He’s near the end of his career and used to work 70 hour weeks (salary, no overtime). His company offers a modified part time option where he can work 30 hours. If he works 40, not big deal; it’s hourly pay. Overtime over 40. Seriously a sweet spot for him.

      Just letting you know there are companies out there that allow this and don’t sweat it.

    2. Jellyfish*

      Good for you! I think lots of people would opt to work fewer hours and do other things with their time if they could afford it.
      My partner works part time and handles things like grocery shopping and cooking while my full time salary covers our primary expenses. That way we both have time and energy to do some fun things together outside of work hours.
      He occasionally gets some judgement from family members who believe in living to work, but we’re both happier this way.

      My best friend works in a highly skilled, emotionally demanding job and negotiated to four days a week. It keeps her from burning out and, again, gives her the energy to have a life outside of work. She gets paid well enough to do that, and I can see what a difference it made in her mental and physical health.

    3. Hunnybee*

      I think that people do this all the time, for various reasons. I know many people at the moment, myself included, who have stepped away from salary jobs to get some perspective and recover from burnout.

      I think there’s a lot of pressure — and noise — from people who have opinions about how we’re supposed to be spending our time. I think that in the US there is more pressure for us to always be working, and have a side hustle or two. But it’s healthy to question that. If you have the opportunity to work part-time and your manager approved it, don’t worry about her reaction. You may also find that your work can easily fit into the PT role once you’ve eliminated the extra meetings and such that aren’t necessary.

      Congratulations for taking the initiative to make your life what you want it to be!

    4. Annie Nonimus*

      Your manager is probably more concerned about who she’s going to get to do that extra 0.2 of work. Like she can’t just turn to the higher ups and be like “yeah sorry our team just produces less now, get used to it” so it’s probably a question of figuring out if there’s budget to hire another part-time person, if there’s enough work to justify an additional worker, can they get by on a smaller team…

      1. Part-time in a full-time world*

        We’ve been hiring lots of new people anyway. I brought it up now partly because I knew they just hired new people. They’re going to assign the 0.2 to a new hire.

    6. Bagpuss*

      Your manager may be concered about whther she is going to end up having to do the extra work. I’d guess that hiiring someone for 1 day a week would be tricky

      1. WellRed*

        Yep. We had a 4 day a weeker and it was an absolute pain at times. That said, the world would be a better place if we all worked less.

      2. JessicaTate*

        This. It’s good for you. But your happiness is not her sole concern. Unless you’re saying, “I can do everything I was doing just at 80% time,” she now has to figure out how to cover 20% of your workload. That’s not a reason to NOT approve it for a valued employee; she probably understands that it’s good for you. But it’s a reason she’s not seeming excited about it.

        If you are still handling a full load, well, she’s a mystery.

      3. Part-time in a full-time world*

        (As I just wrote to someone else) We’ve been hiring lots of new people anyway. I brought it up now partly because I knew they just hired new people.

        TBH I’m sure I could do a full-time load on 80%. But I’m not going out of way to offer that.

    7. LNLN*

      Yes! I cut back my work hours from 40/week to 30/week for the last 7 years of my working life. I was much happier and retired later than I would have otherwise. I was the top performer on my team and my company seemed happy to have me stay those extra years. Enjoy your new work schedule!

    8. Margali*

      I worked full-time, then took 10 years off to be a stay-at-home-parent, and then went back to work part-time and have remained part-time ever since. I LOVE it!!! I contribute to our household income, but also have time to do personal and church work that is important to me. More $$ would be nice, and would allow for more luxuries, but our necessities are covered, as is some fun stuff and some savings, and quality of life is priceless.

    9. Asenath*

      I haven’t personally, but I know someone who went on a reduced (part-time) schedule when her child was born. The child is now university age and she’s approaching retirement, in the same job, and still on the part-time schedule. She has always seemed happy with her work arrangement.

    10. All Monkeys are French*

      I work four days a week at my current job, which is not common at my workplace. I still, a year in, get a few comments here and there, but the big boss told me I was doing great and making that schedule work, so I ignore them. It helps that I agree to work a fifth day when things are really busy. That could be hard in some workplaces where the pressure might be higher. It mostly surprises people because I don’t have kids or a second job, I just like my free time (and have a spouse with a good salary). If you can afford it, don’t hesitate.

    11. Adara*

      I worked part time for almost a decade up until last summer when we decided a temporary move to full time would help us with some goals later on.
      Working part time worked really well for us! My spouse is military, so that’s more than full time most weeks. I was able to handle all of the household logistics, pet appointments, bills, shopping, etc. and we could spend time together as a family. When he switched to an office assignment with more regular hours, I went full time in my current position to be able to sock away the extra money for our upcoming reassignment and we reshuffled the household responsibilities so no one feels overburdened.
      Good for you for reevaluating things and having the ability to make that change!

    12. Jay*

      I worked part-time for seven years after my daughter was born and for the last two years before I retired – it took me a couple of years to negotiate that or I would have done it sooner. And my first employer counted 4.5 days/week as full-time so that’s what I did for the two years I worked there. The time/money tradeoff was definitely worth it for me and sounds like it clearly will be for you. It never affected my relationships with my co-workers or my managers. I held the boundary very firmly: my day off I was *off*. I did not check Email and I did not carry my pager when I had one or my work phone later on. Every now and then there was an actual emergency (I’m a doctor) and someone would call my personal phone, which I didn’t mind.

      Keep an eye on your interactions with your manager after you start the new schedule to see if “not happy” translates into something concrete. If it doesn’t, then let your manager take care of their own emotions.

    13. Massive Dynamic*

      I’m at 40-hr but my firm heavily promotes and supports FTE 0.8 and 0.6 – it’s been one of our main hiring tools. (Also transparent pay in the job adv).

    14. Texan In Exile*

      Yes. Me. Last summer, when I told a friend I was miserable and needed to figure out how much money we needed to survive, he said “The question is not how much you need but how little you need.”

      That shift in mindset led Mr T and me to look at our finances through a different lens and I quit my F100, FT job.

      Last month, I went back as a temporary, part-time – 5-15 hours/week – contractor in a different group. (They called me – this has never happened before in my life.) My boss just hired another person for for 20 hours a week. The company is so desperate for people that they will take us part time.

      The only thing is that it is very easy to let the hours creep up and work more than planned. At least I’m being paid by the hour. But I still would rather have more free time. As soon as I finish this big project – one of the things I was hired to do, I will cut back my hours.

      Do it. Three of my college classmates and a friend have died in the past ten months from natural causes. In their last months of cancer, they did not increase their time at work.

    15. Cindy*

      At my company, salary folks typically work 9 hrs/day for 4 days/week and 8 hrs on alternate Fridays (with every other Friday off) totaling 80 hrs worked over 2 weeks.
      I cut to 4 days/week, 9 hrs/day (total 36 hrs/week) after my mom had a stroke and brought her to my house to live with me. I hired homecare for 12 hrs/day, 5 days/week so that I could spend Fridays getting some extra sleep and pick up Groceries. I took care of her for dinner and overnights and weekends.
      One negative I had was that my Paid Time Off accrual was reduced proportionately. Another was that a team I was on set up regular meetings on their “working Friday” that I couldn’t attend, and I think that my performance review reflected that I didn’t participate enough on the project.
      After my mom passed away (a year after her stroke, when she couldn’t think of a reason to keep living) I regretted that I didn’t cut back more than that so that I could have spent more time with her.

    16. Striped Sandwiches*

      I hope to be this in a few years once I pay off my mortgage. Id rather have the free time and dont need that much to live on. Good luck to you!

    17. Weegie*

      Yes, me! I went to 0.8 three years ago and it’s been brilliant. I’m more rested, and more engaged in work when I’m there. I have a flexible employer, so it was never an issue – plus, I’m more experienced now and can get through my work more quickly, so no one is actually losing out.
      Also, where I am the actual number of hours I work still qualifies as full-time, so I don’t think of myself as part-time and neither does anyone else.

  17. Andjazzy*

    So, I was working at a horrible job that I absolutely hated, people were leaving 2 or 3 a week. I was in auto claims.

    I got hired to a CGL position internally for a self insured manufacturer, I handle all claims for them globally. They’re paying me just shy of 70k a year, which I pointed out at the time was extremely low.

    I ended up taking it and it’s a great place to work, but I’m at least 30k under market. I handle large PD to the the of hundreds of thousands, litigation, severe bodily injury. And I’ve done very well, and all my managers have said this.

    My boss is aware I’m not well paid and has offered to pay for a CPCU designation, however I would have to stay for 2 years or pay it back. It took them nearly a year to hire this position because of the low salary.

    I am extremely in demand, I get messages from recruiters with 100k+ positions daily. I am pending an offer from 2 of them.

    My company is so laid back and I never with beyond 40 hours which is so rare in this industry. What would it take for you to jump ship for a 30% raise? I’m just so torn.

    1. Bluburry*

      You’ll have to decide what is more important- the laid back culture and atmosphere of your current position? Or a large salary bump? Can you afford not to take it? Is your time worth more than the salary bump you’d be getting? (Since it sounds like you’d be working more.) Lots to consider there.

    2. LDN Layabout*

      All boils down to lifestyle. Is that money going to change my life enough to make the trade-off (e.g. more hours, worse commute) worth it? If yes, then I take the job, if no, not the right job.

    3. Ins mom*

      You did mention your boss knows you are underpaid- was it no raise until you get CPCU? That stinks . I get that it’s a great place to work, but that’s not work $30k if they are underpaying you.

      1. Andjazzy*

        He has no control over money. Pay is entirely dictated by our HR compensation department. If he wanted to give a raise around them he would have to go to our vp 4 levels above him.

        It took a lot of capital for him to get approval for the CPCU, which is essentially a masters degree

        1. Jim Bob*

          Which is great, but if it would cost you less to repay than the salary differential, it’s not worth it to stay. Or you may even be able to negotiate a signing bonus equal to the repayment amount from the new place.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      I’m near the end of my career, and have been in many different jobs. For me, a low stress job with lower pay (what I have now) beats the high stress for more money. What would it look like if you did get that certification and stayed for 2+ years? For that matter, how would the job offers differ if you had the certification?

    5. Hunnybee*

      You might easily find another laid-back company and the salary you want! If your job is in demand, and your current job is both underpaying and aware of that, it might feel empowering to start having conversations with other companies to see what’s out there. You might be very pleasantly surprised.

    6. MJ*

      If you do go for the certification but get an offer and want to leave before the two years is up, mention it to the company trying to recruit you. If you are in enough demand the recruiting company may be able to offer a signing bonus equal to what you need to repay.

    7. Irish girl*

      The CPCU books and classes are like $500 each now and you need 8 of them so $4k… Most ins companies will pay that and not likley make you pay it back plus give you a bonus for it and send you to the conference. Mine paid for me to go to Hawaii!!! I would say jump ship. Yes its more stressful but the pay and bonuses at most ins companies has been really good the last few years. And most are doing better with balance and hybrid work. You may even have the qualifications to go into the major case unit rather than awful auto claims.

      1. Andjazzy*

        I’ve been in claims for 9 years, in many different departments. I’ve done personal auto, commercial auto, total loss, physical damage appraising, fraud investigation, premises liability, product liability, auto bodily injury, cargo and transportation and some work comp.

        I’m licensed nearly everywhere in the United States as well.

        I just feel like that experience is worth more than 70k

    8. Venus*

      Would the places that pay you 30% more expect you to work 30% more? Figure out your hourly rate before you complain about pay.

  18. Bluburry*

    Question- is basic reading comprehension going the way of punctuation and grammar? It seems like someone always has a question about something that was thoroughly and overly covered in emails that I’ve sent out to my staff. I know they see these emails, and I know it’s not the way I’m writing. (I’ve asked several staff members if they easily understand instructions that I send out.) Is it a lack of comprehension, a lack of respect? Both? I do not flood their inboxes, so there isn’t a reason to ignore them, and I try to keep them as short as possible. Insight would be appreciated!

    1. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      I think people are distracted, more than anything, and that is affecting everything.

    2. Gnome*

      It’s possible that it’s not that you are flooding their emails, but that other people are. The older I get the harder it is to remember stuff. For instance, I can tell you I have read the COVID policies for my work and my kids’ schools, but I can’t tell you what’s in them. Particularly when there’s a topic (like covid) that happens in lots of places, I will need a confirmation of details because there’s just too much information to keep in my head or I think it might have changed.

    3. Observer*

      I get that you are frustrated. But I hope that the snark only shows up in places like this forum, not at work.

      Without knowing more about people’s roles, company culture etc. it’s hard to know what’s happening. But do keep in mind that it’s not necessarily either a lack of basic reading comprehension or a lack of respect. It could be either or both, but there could be a lot of other issues going on as well.

      1. Bluburry*

        Interesting that you find this question snarky when it’s actually very literal and low-stakes. Never had anyone tell me I’m snarky before from my writing. Tones can be conveyed different ways so I’m guessing that’s what your interpreting. Thanks for the input.

        1. Loulou*

          For what it’s worth, this reply came off as pretty snarky to me (and I’m not at all sure what the “tone can be conveyed…” sentence means). Since the topic at hand is people not understanding your written communications, I actually do think it’s worth considering if your emails are not as clear as you think.

        2. I exist*

          It didn’t read as snarky to me!
          I feel you on the not understanding emails that others think are clear. I don’t know what it is, and I’ve had it from people in their 20s-60s, so . I’ve meticulously typed and gone over emails to make them as clear as possible while keeping them concise(unlike this post), then watched people open their email and read maybe the subject line and a sentence (out of only a few sentences) and immediately ask what it means. Then another coworker who took the 30 seconds to read 4 sentences will explain it to the others as they get to the email and don’t read it. I’ve seen them do it with other people’s emails, too, that are very straightforward.

        3. Observer*

          You really think that the only two possible reasons why people are having trouble with your emails is that they lack basic competence or respect? Because that’s what you just said.

          So, either your writing is not as clear as you think it is or you really, really don’t respect the people who work at your company.

    4. Camelid coordinator*

      They may need to also have it explained verbally also. When big policy changes were afoot at my workplace, my supervisor would give her direct reports a verbal preview of what was coming. This would help us take the policy memo in better.

      1. Bluburry*

        Yeah this is happening too. I often cover things briefly in a staff meeting and send a follow up email a day, maybe two later. My staff are still missing key elements of what needs to happen.

    6. Anon in NJ*

      Not sure if it’s basic reading comprehension, or folks being overwhelmed by he amount of emails (from everyone, not just from you) that they receive and therefore not reading them…

    7. fueled by coffee*

      I don’t think it’s reading comprehension – I think it’s just not fully reading your emails.

      Also – YOU might not be flooding their inboxes, but their inboxes might be flooded by emails from a variety of sources. I’d try subject lines labeled “IMPORTANT: ____” or “ACTION NEEDED: _____” or whatever, and if that doesn’t improve things, having a conversation about how they do need to read your emails because you’ve been handling a lot of questions about things you explain in the emails.

      1. Eff Walsingham*

        See, that labeling wouldn’t help in my inbox, since 3/4 of what I receive is labeled URGENT! IMPORTANT! TIME SENSITIVE! ACTION REQUIRED! PLEASE HELP!

        I typically conduct a primary sort – without opening – based on who the sender is, and what are the odds that anything they’re sending will actually be urgent *to me*. Many people are losing the ability to assess the relevance of their message to the receiver. I get subject lines that sound like ransom demands, only to find that it’s a forwarded opportunity to renew a subscription for a service I rarely use.

        My advice would be to avoid all caps, and make sure that your subject lines are as clear and concise as possible. Then you might have a shot at training people by saying, “TPS reports? Oh, I sent out an email with the new format late last week, under the subject line ‘New TPS Format’. Try searching Thursday and Friday’s dates!”

        Or it may not work. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him read your emails.

    8. SpicySpice*

      It’s not just you. People just don’t read much anymore, and the more busy they are, the worse it gets. All you have to do is page through Not Always Right to see that people don’t even read giant signs in front of their faces. What I’ve had to do is adjust how I write the email. I’m now aware that most people look at their emails on their phone (your folks may be different) and they are paging through them in between other tasks. Long explanations may feel satisfying but no one will look at that.
      Now I’m all about calling out an action item in the subject line, bullet points instead of paragraphs, and really, really stripped down wording. For example I totally stopped explaining WHY a thing is done the way it is – now it’s just “click here, then click there”. If they’re interested in the why, they can do that on their own time.

      1. Loulou*

        I think your “anymore” is a big “citation needed”…. Was there ever a time when customers reliably read signs and processed the information? I really doubt it!

        1. Lily Rowan*

          At a job in the 90s with no email, my boss approached a coworker’s cube one day and was annoyed that they were reading a book. They pointed out the “at lunch” sign tacked to the outside of the cube. My boss said, “I don’t read signs!!!”

          1. pancakes*

            That’s one person being a bit weird, though, or having a dry sense of humor. That wasn’t a common 90s thing.

            1. slashgirl*

              People not reading signs has been around since, well, signs were invented, I’d say. I’ve worked with the public since I was about 9 years old–I’m currently 51 (parents owned a corner store and yes, I helped out starting at that age) and I can guarantee you–most people do. not. read. signs. And have never read them. Just look at push/pull doors. People who come into a store at 5 mins before closing, when the hours are posted at eye level on the door they used to enter the building, to rent a movie (and when you start turning out the lights ask if you’re closing…).

              I’m currently support staff in education (and have been doing this job for 25 years)–parents don’t read signs, they don’t read the materials we send home for them to read, including things that need signatures. I work in elementary so students reading signs, well, tbh, the youngest can’t read/read well….and sometimes staff are sign challenged as well.

              Cell phones have simply made it worse because many folks don’t raise their heads long enough to notice a sign, let alone read it.

            2. Observer*

              People not reading signs has always been a problem. Or pretending to not read them.

    9. Loulou*

      Your framing makes it sound like this is a new thing you’re noticing on your team — is it? If so, maybe there is a reason that has nothing to do with the quality of your emails, but we don’t have enough information to say what that is.

      But in general, I think there have always been people who don’t read carefully (or write carefully, for that matter), or retain information well, or listen closely in meetings. It is indeed very frustrating, but I would urge you not to see it as a sign of disrespect. That’s pretty unlikely compared to “they forgot” or “they read quickly and missed a detail.”

    10. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      Are you perhaps over-communicating? I get told that I do that a lot when I try to be thorough – by putting all the information into text, some of my coworkers find it overwhelming/time-consuming, and just skim instead of comprehending.

      I’ve found it useful to put major points into a bulleted list at the beginning of my message, and then explain before – just like an executive summary of a project or conference presentation. I’ve stuck a bit at the end of this post which is formatted the same way I would begin an email with important points I needed people to take away from it.

      Key Takeaways:
      -You may be writing too much.
      -Most people are more likely to pick up on the distinct importance of a bulleted list than paragraphs of text.

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        It’s also worth considering that different kinds of people may read things better in different ways. My own team tends to be the type that does well with lengthy, explanatory paragraphs that cover every contingency. They want ALLLLL the info. Our clients, OTOH, tend to be the type who need things brief and are more likely to pay attention to bullet points. I will write differently for both audiences.

    11. Generic Name*

      If sending out emails to your staff is the *only* way you are disseminating important information, yeah, people probably are missing things. Maybe it’s lack of reading comprehension, or they just don’t open/read some emails. Hard to know. Communicating information to employees often requires telling people something more than once, and in different ways. It was a running joke at my company for a while of “well, didn’t you get the email about that?” when someone had a question about a policy or whatever. Maybe they did get the email, but it was sent out six years ago. Or they did not get an email sent out six years ago because they were hired three years ago. Or maybe the information didn’t apply to them in the past and it does now, so they deleted the irrelevant email when they received it. There are a ton of explanations that have nothing to do with reading comprehension.

      Plenty of people don’t remember something they’ve read once. So you need to tell people more than once. Annoying? Sure, but it’s how things go. Do you have a staff meeting? Maybe tell them information in the meeting, then follow up in an email. If you have a company intranet, you could post it there. Maybe have a central location for instructions so when someone asks you can send them a link to the instructions (rather than saying “didn’t you get my email?”).

        1. Generic Name*

          Okay, so you’re telling them twice. That’s a great start! I’m in a position where I communicate policy changes and instructions to my entire company, and we’ve found that we have to tell people over, and over, and over again for something to really stick. I think it’s normal, honestly. Frustrating? Sure. But entirely normal.

    12. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      Even if you’re not flooding their inboxes, if they’re getting lots of e-mail in general – or just juggling a lot in general – things may be getting read but forgotten. I definitely wouldn’t jump to “this is disrespect.” Is it the same couple of staff members who always ask the questions, or is it across the board? If it’s lots of people, try naming it in a staff meeting: “I’ve been getting a lot of questions that had already been answered in communications about X. I know there can be a lot of details to remember, so please do a search in your archived emails to look for the answer to your question before coming to me with it.” Don’t accuse them of being disrespectful or having poor reading comprehension; that will make them feel defensive and won’t help you get the results you want. If it’s only a few people doing this, you could say something similar to each of them one-on-one.

    13. RagingADHD*

      I think you must not have been in this position very long if you think it is new for there to be follow up questions about emailed information.

      That is baseline, normal, the way things have always been.

      If you need to communicate something to a group of people, you cannot simply say it one time, one way. You will always, always, always need to repeat the message, use different formats, and / or respond to follow up questions.

      It isn’t “kids these days.” Nothing is “going the way of” anything. It’s just the way group communication has always worked.

      If you never had questions in the past, I suspect you were dealing with a much smaller group, or you were dealing with people who took their questions elsewhere instead of asking you.

      1. Loulou*

        +100. This is sort of the flip side of the “is this the new normal?” thing Alison mentioned in this morning’s post. Not only is it the new normal, it’s the old normal.

      2. Lynn Whitehat*

        This. Also you will always have problems if people are second-language speakers, dyslexic, or otherwise not great readers.

    14. Hunnybee*

      People scan vs read. I’ve been getting feedback from clients to use more bullet points and less paragraphs because bullet points are easily visually digested. As a former English Lit Major, this is a bummer.

    15. Jora Malli*

      I never used to have trouble parsing emails and remembering information, but the last two and a half years have given me a kind of trauma induced brain fog. The entire world is overwhelming right now and fully processing information takes me a few tries these days. And I feel like such a dummy when I can’t immediately understand something that I know is probably very simple. But my brain is tired and it’s not always running at full comprehension strength right now.

    16. tamarak & fireweed*

      Complaints about how some kind of standard is slipping among the next bunch of young people, or as time progresses, are as old as culture. I think it’s completely inevitable to sometimes feel like that. But it’s not lack of respect – it’s just that those who enter your corner of working life now operate under incrementally changed incentives and assumptions. They aren’t any lacking in any personal, professional, or ethical capacity, all things averaged out. They’re just slightly different in what they prioritize, just as you or me were different from what our respective parents were expecting.

      It’s part of life that we have to re-evaluate periodically how to communicate in order to achieve our goals. (And don’t worry, it’ll happen to them, too.)

  19. L-squared*

    Its been over a month since I emailed, so I’m assuming its not getting answered. So curious what the readers think.

    I work for a company that has employees spread out across the country, but I happen to work in the city with the home office. For reference, there are a few other coworking spaces in other cities where multiple employees work. Because we work in the home office, we are required to come in at least 3 times a week, sometimes more. None of the coworking spaces have this requirement. We do get additional things for coming in like free lunches and monthly transit passes (I won’t call them perks, because I think we would all happily give them up for the ability to WFH all the time). Also, for a bit of context, when I took the job, it was right before Covid started, and we were not the HQ city at the time, so all of this has evolved over the last couple of years, so its not like I took the job with this information. My question is, would it be wildly out of line to ask for a raise because of this?

    Literally ¾ of our company has a level of freedom and flexibility to their jobs that those of us in my city do not. I’ve seen people working remotely from all sorts of vacation spots, but if we take a long weekend out of town that overlaps with one of our required in office days, we have to get approval. Those of us in the office have a 30-60 min commute daily that no one else has to deal with unless they choose to. Also, there are members of various teams here, so its not like it’s just the marketing team in one place, it’s literally members of just about every team in the company. We have all brought this up at various times, and senior management says that since we are home office, we have additional “responsibilities”, so I feel that if our “responsibilities” are greater than our remote team members, we should get ACTUAL compensation for that, not just some random things that we don’t want, and that the overall cost of doesn’t even come close to offsetting our time spent commuting.

    Would asking for this come across badly? For the most part I really do like my job, and I do good work. I’m not looking to take some kind of moral stand, I just want to be treated fairly, and if there will be a difference, be compensated for that.

    1. anonymous73*

      So you want a raise because you’re required to come into the office 3 days a week now? Would you be willing to take a decrease in salary if you were approved for full time WFH? If you have a problem with the policy around coming to the office, you should address that, but asking for a raise seems like the wrong way to go to me.

      2. L-squared*

        No, I wouldn’t take a pay cut to do what 3/4 of my company is already doing. That is my issue. Most of the company already gets paid AND has the flexibility.

    2. ferrina*

      First, I think your frustration is totally warranted. This would frustrate me to no end (and I’ve been known to just….keep working from home until someone seriously makes me. Which no one ever does. A few people started that conversation, then I pointed out that they get more hours out of me because of lack of commute.)

      Unfortunately I don’t think a raise is something that they’d be open to. Mostly because the Sr Mgmt is claiming that you have additional “responsibilities” based on your geography (and not anything around the role). I just think this conversation would go nowhere and be a waste of your political capital. Also, compensation doesn’t include commute time. I get that in a remote or hybrid environment, commute time is a necessary evil that some employees need to endure and others don’t, but you’re not exactly working during that time and it’s not something that has been historically paid. It would look out-of-touch to claim that this is something that is usually paid.

      1. L-squared*

        Its interesting. Because I don’t think commute time should necessarily be compensated for. But they have presented things like paying for our transit pass as “compensation” already. But in reality, it doesn’t come close to covering it.

        1. Me ... Just Me*

          Do you not use the transit pass or are there additional expenses related to travel that are uncompensated?
          Just wondering. When you took the job, was it entirely WFH?

          1. L-squared*

            Yes, I use the transit pass. But me and all of my colleagues would happily give it up to have the flexibility to come in when we want to. When I took the job, there were no attendance requirements in the city I’m in, as it was a coworking space. Now they have leased an actual office space.

    3. Bagpuss*

      Have you asked specifcally what the additional responsibilities are?
      It may be that they apply o some roles but not all, and if they define the additional responsibilitiesyou might then be able to request a pay rise to reflect them, or alternatively argue that as they don’t actually apply to your speifc role that you would request that you return to WFH

    4. Green Goose*

      I’m in the exact same situation, it takes me anywhere from 45-65 minutes each way to get in. At my office asking for a commuting raise would come across as out of touch but I do feel your frustration.
      Does your actual boss work in your office? If not, who is checking to see who is in every day? I ask because I was originally told “three days a week” but since my manager is in a different state I realized no one was really paying attention and I now go in like once a week and just don’t say anything.

      1. L-squared*

        My boss does not. Nor does she really care if I’m there. Her boss is in the office and knows who is in every day. He also is the one who decided we need to come in.

        1. ferrina*

          Can you get your boss to vouch for you? “Oh, I asked L-squared to work from home so I could get ahold of them earlier in the day. I couldn’t reach them when they were commuting, and being able to reach them during that commuting time makes the work smoother”.

          Pleading productivity can get great responses- I stopped working hybrid and went full remote so I could log on earlier (I was working a lot of extra hours). I pointed out to Big Boss that I needed to do this to keep up with the demands of Giant Client Project, and I got no further complaints. I’ve done similar for my direct reports.

    5. Rose*

      What were the requirements pre-Covid/when your city office was not HQ? Are you having to come in more/less than you were when you started the job? Did requirements change for the remote people at all? If when you started you were coming in the same/more than you are now (post-Covid), and the remote folks were always remote…then not sure you have grounds to argue for a pay increase.

      1. L-squared*

        So, I started right when covid started. But my understanding is that the office in my city was a coworking space with no actual attendance requirements. Since Covid, nothing has changed for remote employees, but people who live in my city have now been mandated to come in a few times a week. When I asked about it during the interview, they said there were no attendance requirements.

    6. fhqwhgads*

      I think it is unreasonable to ask for a raise over this.
      It would be reasonable to ask for WFH 100%, given it sounds like that’s what you had when you signed on and nothing has changed besides being in the same city as the physical office?

  20. noname23*

    If someone is in a management position gets fired for doing something really egregious towards their direct reports, are there ways to prevent that person from being hired as a manager at other companies? If someone abuses their power as manager, assuming they have not taken any responsibility for their bad actions, how do they end up getting other management jobs after that?

    1. missb*

      I’ve always wondered this too! Our program had a manager that actually struck someone and was finally fired. That manager caused so many issues during their tenure. I’ve always wondered if that manager hit the ground running with another company.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I think in that particular (egregious!) situation, the employee could have filed an assault charge on the manager for physical injury. It’s not an easy or fast process but an assault conviction would be flagged in a background check.

      2. Hunnybee*

        As a contractor, I’ve often seen bad bosses from one company resurface at an equal or higher situation in other companies.

    2. irene adler*

      Other than being contacted as a reference for this person, there’s not much you can do to prevent a bad manager from being hired elsewhere.
      I suppose you could go out and warn other companies against hiring this person. But that crosses the line into slander.
      There is always the hope that they have learned from the firing and have changed their ways. Maybe they use this approach in subsequent interviews to get the job. They don’t have to believe this; they just have to get the interviewer to think this is the situation.

        1. irene adler*

          You are correct. My bad!!!!
          It is merely gossip. And that is usually frowned upon.

    3. ferrina*

      You can’t and shouldn’t (short of giving honest feedback when asked). Unless this is something that should be in the news (even the local news), there isn’t really a database on how to share the news. And even if there were, how do you assure people that your depiction is accurate (and not some out of line retribution, which is more frequent in job scenarios than in other types of scenarios)?

      Some bad people will continue to succeed. But some won’t. Some will succeed for a time, then cross the wrong line and have a very dramatic fall from grace. I had a manager who was fired for sexual assault of an employee (well, the CEO didn’t initially fire him. But when the entire rest of the company refused to work with him, the CEO finally caved). If the rumor mill is to be believed, he hasn’t had nearly close to the same level of job again. Hard to do that when no one will be your reference.

    4. RagingADHD*

      This is what references are supposed to be for, but leaders are often able to negotiate to have a resignation instead of a firing on their work history. Short of criminal charges that would show up on a background check, there’s not much that can be done to ensure someone’s history follows them the way it should.

    5. Bernice Clifton*

      I agree with Irene regarding the first part.

      Regarding the second part of how someone gets hired in another job, some employers just stick to the reference list provided by the candidate, don’t check references, some organizations will only confirm employment dates for employees they fired, some employers underpay so they don’t care if you’ve been fired if you seem to be qualified.

      1. Johanna Cabal*

        And generally these types of toxic individuals have no qualms about lying either. A firing becomes a “layoff” or they list their employment as current. Or even use friends as references (I wonder about this. I know Alison recommends contacting the reference via their company’s main number but with so many remote companies that have staff use either their own phones or even Google Voice numbers, which mine does, I think that’s going to be harder and harder).

        A toxic manager at my old job was able to move to a similar role by moving to a different area. I guess, the companies that person has worked for in that location really needed their skillset because based on their LinkedIn, they seem to have moved up a bit. That said, I try to keep an open mind that maybe the change of environment has helped mend their toxic ways. Or I hope so, at least.

    6. Decidedly Me*

      They get another because people don’t check references. Not a manager, but a direct report who did something pretty egregious and got hired at their next company with no reference check from me (or anyone at my company). What’s stranger still is that their new company is has a connection with my current one, so it would have been even easier to seek feedback from us. They didn’t leave off their job with us either.

      1. Johanna Cabal*

        I’m not surprised. Just as a lot of employees and jobseekers have misconceptions about references (that negative ones are illegal, is one I’ve heard), employers and managers do as well.

        I worked at a startup where I was in a hiring role but explicitly told not to waste my time calling references because “references only say positive things” and “companies aren’t allowed to give them anyway, so what’s the use?”.

        You know what happened? I ended up with a bad employee that caused a lot of cleanup after they were fired three weeks later. A thorough reference check might have prevented it. And I still wasn’t allowed to ask for references.

    7. Prospect Gone Bad*

      Wrong way of thinking. The egregious stuff always gets found out easily enough. The much more insidious issue is people who are below average but good enough to coast (and earning a high salary, after convincing everyone they’re great). I wish I could get heads up on those!

    8. Observer*

      are there ways to prevent that person from being hired as a manager at other companies?

      Not for most types of jobs.

      If someone abuses their power as manager, assuming they have not taken any responsibility for their bad actions, how do they end up getting other management jobs after that?

      Lots of different ways. References don’t get checked, references get checked but don’t give useful information, people spin a good story, people go into other fields which can make it hard to get good information, people get lucky, etc.

  21. Eva*

    Does anyone have any tips for the first day of a new job? I’m starting a new internship in a week, and while I’ve had internships before, this is my first time actually working in an office. Right now my only plans are to (a) wear a dress and blazer on my first day and then adapt depending on what everyone else wears and (b) pay attention and take notes if needed… but I feel like I’m missing something. Those of you who supervise interns: what can they do to make a good impression?

    1. Bluburry*

      Communicate questions before you begin if you have them and answer questions they may have! Also don’t be afraid to ask questions. DO pay attention! It’s very important, but most of us don’t expect entry level interns to remember everything from your first day. Plus it could be that your first week will be mostly training. Ask for a tour of the facility is large enough and don’t be afraid to introduce yourself! (Respectfully, of course!)

    2. ThatGirl*

      We have a crop of interns who just started, and they have all made good impressions by being polite, engaged and asking good questions. Show interest in what’s happening around you, ask people to show you things, and do what you’re already planning to do :)

      1. ferrina*

        Yes yes yes! And take notes- there is no way that you will remember all the information that you are given in the first week. (also note down who gave you information/trainings on what. That will make it easier to go back to them later when you have questions)

    3. Jellyfish*

      Take notes on any kind of training or process explanation. Take notes on people’s name and jobs if that info isn’t readily available. Office stuff can seem intuitive when covering it for the first time, but after the information dump of the first couple days, those processes are harder to remember. Note taking also makes you look engaged and interested.

      Ask about acronyms and industry jargon if you need to. Often people get used to using those terms and forget to explain themselves. It’s unlikely anyone will judge you for not knowing those things without any prior experience.

      Bring a water bottle and wear professional but comfortable shoes. You may be on your feet more than you expect.

      1. Storm in a teacup*

        Totally agree to bring a water bottle and comfortable shoes!
        Also make sure your outfit is something you are comfortable in.
        Something to take notes with.
        Smile, be polite and remember everyone you meet will have been in your position before.
        Stay engaged and don’t be afraid to ask questions (just don’t derail the training or conversation completely to your questions).

    4. Lily Rowan*

      Maybe don’t bring your lunch that first day, until you get the lay of the land around that stuff (where to store it/where to eat it). Also, they may take you out to lunch your first day.

      (Because I am always desperate to eat lunch, often before noon, I would bring a shelf-stable snack in my bag just in case.)

      Honestly, just asking the question here means you are in good shape! Good luck!

      1. Me ... Just Me*

        I’d definitely bring something to eat. Some places have a culture where everyone brings lunch, and it can be awkward (and time consuming) to have to run out and pick something up while everyone else is eating in. I’d bring something that doesn’t require too much care or that needs to be heated — think school lunch. If you have one of those lunch bags that you can slip an ice pack in, that would be perfect. Just stow it with your purse/bag where they tell you to. Also, bring a bottle of water or something along those lines (that cannot be easily spilled).

    5. PollyQ*

      Forget “if needed.” Take notes. Take notes early & often. They’re going to be throwing lots of information at you, so take lots of notes. You could also ask ahead of time about the dress code. It’s possible that dress + blazer will be significantly more formal than the prevailing standard which might make you feel a little uncomfortable.

  22. Amber Rose*

    We’re hiring one of our employees as a contractor to provide extra services for an obscene rate. Normally I would just roll my eyes at upper management and their nonsense but they’ve made this my problem to solve and I just… ugh.

    Anyone in Canada have any experience with and/or advice for Deeming Orders? How to complete them, how to get them approved, how long it takes? Because this is just a dude, so he’s not a company, which means we have to get him under our WCB account somehow and this form I don’t understand is the only way I figure we can do it.

    1. Anonymous healthcare person*

      When I worked as a contractor, in my contract it specified what coverage the company was responsible for and what coverage I was responsible for. Like, as I’m in healthcare, I covered my own professional liability insurance, for example. I had to show proof that I had the coverage to the company. I can’t remember for WCB but maybe this is the contractor’s responsibility to figure out, not yours?

      I did have a corporation BUT I was often the only employee, and I paid for my own WCB coverage. Pretty sure I dealt with it through my accountant so can your company accountant help? If not, just call WCB yourself to find out? Sorry if this is stuff you have already thought of, and I know WCB changes from province to province. Maybe your local Small Business Association could also be helpful? Also, what do stabdard contractor employment contracts in your business look like for your province? Good luck!

  23. Ann O'Nemity*

    What do your annual raises look like this year? I just found out our annual merit increase pool is only 3%, despite inflation and rising cost of living. This is going to be hard news to deliver.

    1. londonedit*

      We don’t have merit raises but our company-wide annual pay rise was 5% in March thanks to the cost of living crisis (in previous years it’s been 2%). Obviously it isn’t doing much to offset the massive rise in inflation we’re seeing here in the UK, or the astronomical rises in people’s energy bills, but it’s better than nothing!

      1. Storm in a teacup*

        That’s a really good raise. We got around 3.5% this year for COL but from a merit perspective we’ve gotten a decent bonus and RSU.

    2. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Nothing. I received a 1.5% raise last summer, and it’s the only raise I’ve gotten in four years.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Oh, I lied, I got 3% – but 4% is the biggest raise I’ve ever gotten without switching jobs.

    4. fueled by coffee*

      COL adjustment less than inflation, so my raise this year is effectively a pay cut. Yay.

    5. Dragonfly7*

      We won’t know our across-the-board percentage increase for several more months, but 2-3 percent would be normal.
      I earn 62-63 percent of the local average median income for a family of one, and our annual increase keeps me at that level (maybe 64 percent in a really good year). However, our annual raise would need to be nearly 8 percent this year for me to stay at that level, which I don’t see happening.

    6. Amber Rose*

      Also 3% and on track for 3% each year, but if you include my bonuses it sort of not really evens out. :/

    7. anonymous73*

      In my 25+ year career, I have never gotten more than a 3% raise unless I switched companies/job role.

    8. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      They were finalized a couple of weeks ago: 0.5% COLA. 1.5% Merit based increase for exceeding expectations in all metrics: I’ve gotten a 2% merit based for the same achievement every year for the last half decade, but no COLAs before now.

      No, they don’t compound.

      I’ve gone from rage to depression to job-searching, not surprisingly.

    9. Gracely*

      Most years I would kill to get any raise. The handful of years we’ve gotten one, it’s been 1%. This year was actually first substantial raise I’ve ever received, and it was entirely because our governor is trying to buy support from the education sector (that he usually, at best, ignores; at worst, actively works against). It was the same for everyone across the board, regardless of your current salary. For me, it worked out to 12%. Which, again, after a decade of mostly no raises with a few 1% years, I’m really still making less than I was when I started if you look at COL/inflation (and it’s only guaranteed for this year and next year). But something is definitely better than nothing.

    10. Bagpuss*

      We gave 5% across the board – this was on top of a raise in September (normally we only do pay reviews once a year, so Setpmber was extra) which gave around 3%, so in total in line with or slightly above inflation

      We did give higher raises based on merit to some staff .

      We are quite small so we just had a meeting of the owners and went through the salary list

      We are in the UK –

    11. AnonToday*

      Our company (new-ish biopharma based out of a HCOL city) was merit-based with a cap of 5%.

    12. Generic Name*

      I got a 3% merit raise at the beginning of the year, and another 3% cost of living raise last month, so total 6% this year.

    13. ecnaseener*

      We got 3% COL, no merit raises (merit pay is a “future goal for the organization” *eyeroll*) at the new calendar year, which I thought was stingy with 6-7% inflation but I guess it’s better than your situation of up to 3%!

    14. Lily Rowan*

      I’ve heard ours is going to be 4% this year, for people at full effectiveness. Below that gets less, above that gets a bonus.

    15. Lizabeth*

      We don’t get raises, we get year-end bonuses based on the year’s profit. Sometimes they will give an additional bonus if at the end of the actual accounting (following March) there was more profit than projected in December.

    16. Prospect Gone Bad*

      We got much higher than average ones. I keep having to remind my reports that this is not normal, some are getting too used to big raises that won’t continue!

    17. brightbetween*

      There’s no such thing as merit raises in my organization, we recently found out this year the union negotiated COL raise is 5% plus $2K one time payment at the beginning of the FY (July 1)

    18. WantonSeedStitch*

      Ours looks very much the same, but that is absolutely par for the course for us. That said, many of our peers had salary freezes for the past couple years, whereas we did not (though we didn’t get much of an increase). Also, there was an across-the-board increase of about the same amount recently (for all employees) that helped out a lot. We divide the pool up such that folks who receive above-and-beyond ratings in their annual review get a bit more of a bump, while those who are starting to nudge up against the top of their salary band after being with us for a long time might get slightly lower increases (so there will be more equity among people with the same job description).

    19. Angry socialist*

      I got 1.5% this year. It’s effectively a pay cut. I’m looking for a new job.

    21. AnotherLibrarian*

      We are getting a 2% which is pretty awful, but our state institution has faced budget cuts every year for the last 5 years, so things are bad, but at least we’re getting something.

    22. anonynonnon*

      Guessing ours will be 3% as well. Just because inflation is high doesn’t mean we have the revenue to cover the gap, and with an economic recession looming – I’m not comfortable doing more than we can handle as a company because that will just result in layoffs. The hard part with salaries is that it feels like we have to “keep up” with inflation but when it’s this out of whack, it’s not like you can take people’s salary away once the market falls out. But… most employees aren’t in a place to navigate that conversation when it just comes down to what they need to live and the pinch they are feeling.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        Yes that’s an interesting one – would all the people wanting increases because of “inflation” be happy to take a pay cut if/when the economy goes into deflation? Didn’t think so…

        1. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

          I don’t give a rotting fig’s concern about idiotic hypotheticals regarding deflation (which has never happened in this country during the last half century), at the moment. I care about the fact that I can barely afford groceries and rent, and that I’m going to have to start making decisions on whether I pay the electric bill or my car’s registration.

          Your “inflation” incenses me.

    23. Anon for this*

      Ours is entirely merit based, and is calculated based on annual performance review and where you fall in your pay grade. Someone who gets a 3 on a 1-5 scale (strong performer, meets expectations) who is in the middle of their pay grade gets 3%.

    24. Five after Midnight*

      Just adding another data point. Our annual raises are effective 1 Mar in HCOL area on the US East Coast. There is no merit vs COLA, it’s all lumped into one, but some people get more than others. Got 4% this year vs 5% in 2021 vs nada in 2020 (because that thing you may have heard about started back then). We have no annual bonuses.

    25. RowanUK*

      My company (in the UK and very small) never gives annual or cost of living raises. I generally wait for a few years (sometimes more depending on the client situation) and then put my case for a pay rise.

      Thankfully, I’d been promised one for a few years and it finally got approved in December, so my pay is now 8.5% more (with most of it being swallowed by the cost of living situation). I’m supposed to get another raise later in the year, but time will tell!

    26. Ugh*

      Ours is 0% … After 0% last year, and pay cut the year before and 1.5% if you got a high score on performance eval.

  24. Is equity, diversity, and inclusion, important to you?*

    So, I was asked this question and I think my answer might have been a bit ……radical, at least for an organization that chose to ask this.

    My answer included that yes it was, obviously through my own experiences as a person of colour but also through learning about the lived experience of others, and acknowledging that the biases of the settlers on this land has led to enshrined prejudices in our systems and infrastructure.

    Oof…..I should have been a bit more…. gentle?

    1. Hen in a Windstorm*

      Maybe I’m radical too, but I don’t think this is a problematic answer. They asked! It’s a really good answer if they’re serious about DEI.

    2. fueled by coffee*

      This doesn’t strike me as a particularly *radical* answer, though obviously this depends on the political outlook of your interviewer.

      When answering this question in interviews, though, I think it’s worth thinking about what DEI means in the scope of what the organization/company does and what your role would be there. Your answer strikes me as totally fine for, say, an advocacy organization aimed at institutional issues like criminal justice reform or indigenous sovereignty.

      For a random Teapot Manufacturer, though, while I don’t think this answer was wrong (again, pending your take on your interviewers’ politics and how willing you are to cater to them to get the job), it’s worth tailoring your response to things that would be within your purview in the job. You could instead say something like: “DEI is important to me, obviously through my own experiences as a POC but also through learning about the lived experiences of others. It’s very important to me to work on a diverse team and I’m very supportive of professional development opportunities for members of [marginalized group]” or “I know that historically members of X group have been underrepresented in the teapot industry, so it’s important to me to work for a company that values inclusive hiring practices.”

      In other words, it’s not that your view on historical realities are “radical” or that you need to be more “gentle,” but that in an interview context, your future employer is focused mostly on what’s relevant to your job, so I’d pick a response that directly targets how DEI matters in the role you’re interviewing for.

      1. Is equity, diversity, and inclusion, important to you?*

        Hi! So I did provide some job related examples for this answer.

        But it was my inclusion of the statements mentioned above that stuck in my head after the interview.

    3. ferrina*

      I love this answer so much! And I definitely know companies where this answer would be very much appreciated. But I also know some where this would evoke some subtle and not-subtle repercussions.

      Should you answer differently? Well, if the world was more just and honest place you wouldn’t even need to ask that question. But the world being what it is- depends on what you know of your company and what risks you are willing to take/trouble you are willing to stir. You get to do what is right for you and your situation.

      1. ferrina*

        Just saw your follow-up comment that this was in an interview.
        So- yes, I think that this phrasing is just fine. You want to work for a place that aligns with your values, and this is a good way to state your values to make sure that the company aligns with that.

        1. Lily Rowan*

          Agreed.

          As a finalist candidate one time, when they asked if I had any more questions, I asked if they really wanted to add one more white woman to the team (based on the work of the nonprofit and what I had seen of the staff). I got the job, and those dynamics were problematic, IMO! I was glad I had named it up front.

          1. Pam Adams*

            and that’s why Archie Goodwin loves and respects you! (Wolfe just respects you, but will never admit it)

    4. TCO*

      That would have been a great answer at my org (a nonprofit that values DEI). But we also would have asked a more directed question about DEI, not just “is it important to you.” I want to hear about candidates’ experience with translating that value into workplace action. (What that would look like varies by role, obviously.)

      Would you want to work anywhere that thought your answer was too radical? You might and that’s fine! But either way, their response to your answer might give you a good sense of how this organization handles DEI issues as you consider fit.

    5. Policy Wonk*

      If this was in a job interview, I like the first part of your answer about lived experiences, but I would replace the part about the settlers on this land to something more relevant to the workplace. If this was in your current employer in some kind of session I think it’s fine.

    6. Prospect Gone Bad*

      Two posters have used the world radical or not. I don’t think that’s the actual question though. I think you should be wondering, is this information useful in the workplace.

      I think your answer is too broad and while not radical, a bit hyperbolic. If your company is going to get any useful actionable insights into how to improve the company in 2022, I don’t think it’s helpful at all to go back to settlers. That can actually be used as a deflection by people who don’t want change.

      In other words, no one is going to take any action if the to-do is framed as “change the county back to the time of settlers.” That’s way too big. But if you have more specific questions pertaining to now (like, “POC hired for front desk roles and tend not to rise the ranks, can we set up a transitionary role?”) then you will get people listening to you.

    7. WantonSeedStitch*

      If they are asking that question and actually care about the answer, that was a good one.

      1. Cordelia*

        I like your answer, I just don’t like the question – is anyone going to say no? Surely a “how have you demonstrated/will you demonstrate that EDI is important to you” type of question would be better? sorry OP, I know that’s not the point of your question…

    8. Texan In Exile*

      I love your answer because it’s true but if I were trying to convince others of the value of diversity, I would go with things that hit execs in the pocketbook.

      For instance, I would cite the research that diverse teams create better products and give examples of what happens when there is a lack of diversity (the motion-activated soap dispenser that didn’t detect non-white skin, FitBit didn’t add a period tracker until it had been on the market for years).

      I would also note that diverse leadership leads to higher profits: companies with more women in leadership are more profitable.

    9. Irish Teacher*

      That sounds pretty mild to me. As a teacher, I would expect that anything short of that would be considered indicative you didn’t really understand how serious the issue is (I included “as a teacher,” because obviously, teachers are expected to be concerned with such issues and the bar for us might be higher than the one for somebody working with adults). That would be less than we would have learnt in our teacher training.

      I wouldn’t see that as in the least radical. It’s…basically a simplified version of what we learnt in secondary school. If anything, I’d see it as a bit gentle, but again, that is coming from the perspective of somebody who is expected to teach young people about these issues. In the corporate world, it may well be sufficient.

  25. Internproblems*

    I need advice about how to set expectations about working hours with my intern. He’s been working odd hours without running it by me first. I thought I’d been clear to him that his working hours should be within core business hours and should stay consistent week to week (like, I literally typed that out and sent it in an email, and we set his weekly schedule hours). But he’s been sending me messages around midnight and logging off early without asking me first.

    Ultimately, it doesn’t REALLY matter when he does his work, but I think I’m chaffing a bit because 1) he’s not following directions 2) (and so) it feels like a challenge to my authority 3) I’m skeptical how productive he’s being overall, and this is part of the reason why, and 4) i need to make sure he’s logging all his hours.

    Also, maybe this is petty, but I’m getting the impression that he’s acting entitled to a level of flexibility of working hours that I had to fight to get. So that is kind of pissing me off from a privilege point of view.

    But I don’t want to tell him you have to work hours as agreed upon because I said so. But I’m pretty frustrated and because he’s remote, I don’t have great insight into his working hours. And I’m also worried I waited too long to address it, so he might have thought it was okay. I was thinking at hour next check in saying: I’m fine being flexible but I need a heads up so I know when to expect that you’ll be online and available to work. We had talked about your hours being X – Y. Does that schedule still work for you? It’s important I’m online when you are, etc. Etc.

    1. Bluburry*

      Call a meeting with him. In person. Sit down. Ask for a review of what he’s been up to. Ask why he isn’t sticking to a schedule. It could be that he’s afraid to ask for more flexibility but is having a personal reason for not being able to stick to that. Coke from the angle of concern for his well being and the productivity he is providing. If he doesn’t have a reason be explicit. If he can’t stick to the agreed upon schedule, set up a PIP where you are both involved. If he can’t cut it after that- it’s so long intern.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Your scripts there at the end look good to me, other than drop “I’m fine being flexible” because obviously he has a different interpretation of flexible than you do. You can also start with “You need to reset your expectations for your work hours.”

      1. Observer*

        I agree. Clearly, you have different expectations of the word. Getting into that is not going to be helpful to you.

        The rest is good because it’s crystal clear, and it sounds like he needs that kind of clarity.

      2. WantonSeedStitch*

        Agreed. Instead of “I’m fine with being flexible,” I’d recommend being more specific about what kind of flexibility is OK with you: “I’m not going to have a problem with a few minutes of wiggle room on either side of start and end times, but if you’re going to be changing your scheduled working hours by more than 15 minutes on either side of the start or end time, I need you to send me an e-mail/text/chat message as soon as you know it’s going to happen. It’s important for me to know when I will be able to reach you and when I won’t.”

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      I think it can’t hurt to start the conversation with “Hey we talked about you sticking to core business hours, but you’re still logging off early and sending messages in the middle of the night. What’s going on?”. That should hopefully offer some insight into his thought process or reveal any issues he’s working around. If there’s no good reason, then I think pieces of your planned conversation of “I’m fine being flexible but I need a heads up so I know when to expect you’ll be online” and “It’s important I’m online when you are [with an added explanation of why it’s important]” should be next.

      1. Policy Wonk*

        I agree with this approach. Your original script is putting the burden on you rather than him. Is this a paid internship, or for college credit? If he is getting paid, tell him you won’t pay for hours he’s not working. If it is for credit, you will need to note this in the evaluation you provide to his school. You already think he is acting entitled – I agree with that. if you don’t put your foot down it will get worse.

    4. AdequateArchaeologist*

      I typed out a whole response then re-read the first paragraph where you said you’ve told him core hours + consistent schedule.

      You shouldn’t feel bad about saying “no, stick to what we previously agreed”. It’s perfectly acceptable to say “these are the parameters” and not have to have a whole conversation about justifying it. Especially since you have to verify his hours and it sounds like you have some potential concerns about the work completion/quality.

      1. Internproblems*

        I appreciate this response (and all the others — I’m on mobile so it’s clunky to respond to each). I think I was worrying that my personal irritation with the situation was making me want to be more harsh than the situation warranted. But I’m getting the opposite impression from these responses — that in my worry I would be harsh, I was instead going to approach the conversation too timidly. I appreciate the wisdom of the commentariat as always! We’re fully remote until next month, but I’ll start our next check in with a “we need to reset expectations, what’s been going on that’s been causing these discrepancies?” I generally want to have a hands off approach, but unfortunately I don’t think he’s earned that.

        1. JessicaTate*

          Yes, you are completely reasonable in setting these expectations and expecting them to be followed. (I’ve been there, exactly this set of problems, with a junior employee. Eventually, they never improved. It was part of what led to their leaving our company.)

          From my experience, I wouldn’t just address the “what’s been causing the time/hours discrepancies” – which is part of it! I would also give specifics about your concerns of his productivity, which you mention in the list. If flexibility might ever be an option, it comes after someone has proven they are productive on their own; he hasn’t. So, can you name some of your expectations for productivity or examples of where he’s fallen short? Also, I would very specifically address the timekeeping as part of this, and why that is a critical and non-flexible part of his job. And the fact that he hasn’t been responsible about time requests or time reporting is yet another reason I need you to be working when you are supposed to be working, and off when you are not.

          Good luck!

    5. Emm*

      I think you can emphasize the importance of working the set hours without falling to “because I said so.” Presumably the work needs to be done within business hours to keep other people, including yourself, in the loop on his work and he needs to be available for meetings, messages, etc. That’s the reason in and of itself, and I think that’s a reasonable expectation to set.

      I think it’s important to stick to your guns here, but I like the suggestion of others commenters to open the conversation by asking what’s going on. It’s possible he may not realize that this isn’t okay. He may have assumed that because he’s remote, that comes with a flexibility in hours. If there’s no office to report to, why report at a certain time? When I was an intern, I assumed A LOT about my workplace, and a guiding hand with a little grace might have saved me from embarrassment years later when I realized how many faux pas I’d been committing without anyone ever telling me.

      1. MJ*

        Also, be clear that “flexible” doesn’t mean “any hour of the day, whenever you want”. In this case it means that there are set hours, which occasionally may be adjusted for appointments or other things WITH PRIOR NOTICE, but generally should be worked as scheduled.
        Remember, as an intern they likely don’t have much business experience, so clearly spelling out common sense things that “everyone should know” is a kindness.

      2. Lily Rowan*

        Part of being an intern is learning all of that stuff! So OP, you’re doing him a favor to lay it out super-clearly and not let him do whatever he feels like.

        1. A Simple Narwhal*

          Yes, this is such an important thing to remember! I’ve definitely had to remind myself that our interns aren’t just regular coworkers there to do a job, they’re also there to learn important skills – both the ones required to do the job but also skills to survive/exist in a work environment.

    6. Observer*

      OK, does your company require core business hours, do you have an ACTUAL problem, or are you just ticked off that this intern waltzed in a took for granted something you had to fight for.

      If the latter, back down. And find some better way to deal with the frustrations you encounter.

      If your company actually requires business hours ignore the rest of my message and just tell him that he needs to work core hours. He doesn’t have to like it, he doesn’t need to agree that it’s a good idea, and you are actually sympathetic to his desire for more flexible schedules. But this is what the company requires and he doesn’t have the standing to just skip the rules he doesn’t like.

      If you have a genuine problem with his productivity, you need to address that. Address it *directly*. Only bring up the hours if it becomes clear that it really is affecting his productivity or it actually does affect your ability to manage him.

      Figure out what his productivity should actually be and how you would normally measure it if you were both in the office. If you need him to be working during normal hours in order to do that, then you should tell him that he needs to do his work during business hours. Also, look at his work and figure out how much of what he does requires overlap with others (eg two way conversations with other staff). Same thing applies.

      If neither issue is significantly affected by whether he works core hours, leave that alone. Focus on what you need to see from him in terms of his work. If it’s hard for you to track what he’s doing when you can’t just get hold of him in the moment, then that a legitimate issue for you to raise, by the way. But the point is that you need focus on the work he is supposed to be doing and the direct impact his current schedule is having on his work / you.

      1. AcademiaNut*

        For interns, this is a different situation than for an established employee. I’ve run into this with student summer positions – they’re used to working student hours, so they think that working 9am to noon one day, and 6pm to 9am the next and then 2-4pm the following day is perfectly normal. Part of the internship is learning how workplaces operate, and most workplaces, particularly for junior jobs, don’t operate on the principles of “Ignore directions from your boss and do what you like”, “work whatever random hours feel good to you.” or “slack off for weeks and then cram all the work into three days of no sleep and it’s all good as long as the work gets done” – the latter two being particularly student-ish approaches.

        Sometimes you have to tell students things like that flexibility means you fit most of your work into 8 hour days that fit within 7am – 7 pm on weekdays, but if you need to come in late/leave early sometimes or take an extra long lunch occasionally and make up the work later it’s okay, as long as you attend scheduled meetings, and that if you’re going to be off for a half day or more you should take formal leave. Or that they need to read work emails while they are at work. Or that regular bathing and deodorant are not optional. Or that when your boss tells you to do something you are actually expected to do it.

        1. Observer*

          I don’t really disagree with anything you said. I also don’t think that it conflicts with what I said.

          You seem to think that I’m suggesting that the OP should just let the intern keep whatever schedule they want, regardless of what else is going on, but I’m not sure how you get there.

          My bottom line is this: If the company requires this, the OP should just say so. Interns absolutely need to learnt that the employer gets to set those parameters, and they get to either follow the rules or find a new job. Pushing make, for the most part, only comes once you have some knowledge and capital to spend.

          If it’s not a company requirement, then the OP should focus on the more concrete problems. From what they say, it’s good bet that it’s going to mean a real change in schedule for the intern, and that’s fine. And it’s a good learning experience for him, as well. Because the biggest issue that tends to come up is a failure to realize that what you do affects others and you simply cannot ignore that. And also that when Boss tells you to do something it’s not ok to assume that you can do things differently because “who really cares”, because Boss probably has some good reasons for whatever it is that they told you. If you REALLY think it’s no big deal, you’d better check.

          To be clear I am talking about the theoretical you of a conversation between boss and intern

    7. Prospect Gone Bad*

      TBH this should be a non-issue. Just call him and tell him. I don’t word is so bluntly to make you sound bad, I am on your side, I just think this should be a tiny blip on your radar you address directly, and then move on.

      I could see if being an issue if you have a higher level high performing employee you need more access to. But an intern? Nah. Tell them people tend to EARN flexibility after accomplishing something in the real world.

    8. Esmeralda*

      Is he working ADDITIONAL hours at odd times? Or is he working HIS MAIN HOURS at odd times?

      If it’s additional hours, have a discussion about that.
      If it’s his main work hours, have a discussion about that.

      BTW, I think your feeling butt-hurt about this is ok — we feel what we feel — but those feelings do not need to be part of your interactions with him. If he’s an intern, he may not realize that it’s unprofessional and looks bad to ignore your requirement about hours. He may not in fact be trying to challenge your authority at all.

      If the problem is that he’s not available to work during core hours and you need him online and working then, you need to tell him that.

      If you need to have an accurate log of his actual work hours, you need to tell him that.

      It just sounds to me like you have legitimate reasons for having him working certain hours, but you need to make it clear.

      Doesn’t matter if you didn’t do so before. It’s never too late. You can say (and I’d do this in a zoom call, not just over email), I’m sorry if you got the impression that you could work flexible hours — that’s on me for not being clear enough. [even if you think you were clear enough, because, again, intern] Going forward, I need you to work [fill in details] and I need you to keep track of your hours by [fill in details]. It’s really important for you to do this because [fill in details]

      Then follow up with an email recap.

      Explaining why is important in general, but especially with an intern. Interns are often still learning about the world of work, and part of your job as his supervisor or trainer or mentor is to teach him.

    9. InternSupervisor*

      Interns are supposed to work with supervision, which even with flexibility and remote work means during hours when they can get questions answered from a supervisor. It’s not unreasonable to expect core hours or to stick to a schedule. Universities may even expect that or have guidelines about it. Be firm and direct.

  26. I think I'm ready*

    I’m being offered an opportunity to step into a management position on an interim basis but with the potential to apply for the position on a permanent basis (government job). I’d be managing my current coworkers and some managers as well. I’ve known most of these folks for over a decade. The position comes with a small bump in pay, and I’m currently at the top of my pay scale with no other opportunities to make more money other than through COLAs.

    I’ve already stepped into the position previously but just for a short period of time and with no oversight over other managers. I’ve been a lead as well, so I’ve had the required management training.

    I’m hesitant for a few reasons:

    I don’t love public speaking. I do fine – have presented at national conferences etc but it isn’t my fav thing to do. This position probably requires more of that sort of thing.

    It is definitely a higher pressure position. I prefer keeping people happy; this position wouldn’t allow me to do that. It’d be a shift in thinking for me and would throw me into more of the politics that I’m shielded from in my current position.

    I have good relationships with my coworkers – we socialize outside of work. My manager used to be one of us; there is clearly a shift there that happens and I don’t look forward to it.

    The pay isn’t likely to improve much. Managers make more, but sometimes it takes awhile to move the entire class of managers up in pay vs the union pay bumps. I’d be at the top of the range for that classification too. I’m towards the end of my career, so my pension calculation is based on my highest earning years and any bump in that sort of pay ultimately serves me well. I’m reasonably confident that if I end up making less than the folks in my current position that I’d be bumped up in classification or pay to exceed their salary.

    I guess I’m trying to figure out any reasons to say no – not that I don’t want to make the move, just trying to see if I’ve overlooked any negatives. I’ve asked for a week to consider.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Do you want to do this job, on either an interim or permanent basis? If the answer is “no,” that’s enough reason to decline.

      The only other thing I’d consider before declining is: if you don’t take it, who is likely to end up in the interim position? And is working for that person better or worse than holding the job yourself for a short period of time?

      1. I think I'm ready*

        I think I do want the job, despite me listing only the negatives!

        I did reach for a management position a few years ago but it wasn’t the best choice for me or for the position. This one is perfect (other than the drawbacks I listed). It’s actually a natural progression for my career.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          Ah, I missed that! I can’t think of any more drawbacks. I think you are wise to fully consider that it will be more stress for less pay and that you won’t be able to be as close to your current coworkers once you’re their manager before you accept the position.

          Best of luck, and I hope you enjoy the new role!

    2. Policy Wonk*

      It certainly sounds like you have already talked yourself out of the position. Honestly, if you are looking to retire in the not-so-distant future and want to do this for three years to get the salary bump, I would recommend you do it. But if you are not planning to retire soon and are looking at doing this for a long term, no amount of money is worth making yourself unhappy by taking a job you don’t want and won’t like.

      Given how long it takes to fill a government job, you might want to take it for the interim period. Depending on how quickly they advertise, maybe even apply for it. But be honest with your boss about what you don’t like, so if you decide not to take it on a permanent basis, she won’t be surprised. (And don’t be surprised if they hire someone other than you even if you do want to take it. I’ve seen that happen more than once.)

      Good luck with whatever you decide.

      1. I think I'm ready*

        Thanks! I actually was only listing the negatives, to see if there were some that I was missing.

        I will likely say yes and even apply for it. It’s such a tough job in general – it takes about 5 years to ramp someone up to be competent in the technical position, so the number of folks that could fill the position is quite small. Being asked to do the interim makes the transition to permanent easy plus it gives me a pretty good picture of what the job would entail.

    3. Anonymous Koala*

      Why not take it for the interim period and see what happens? If you don’t like it, you don’t have to apply for the permanent position when it comes up, and you’ll have a better idea of whether this kind of management is something you might want to do in the future (even if you don’t want it now).

      1. I think I'm ready*

        I think that is my approach!

        I’m already really busy, but yes, it will give me a window into the position and will give me an idea of whether I like/want the additional stress.

  27. A Simple Narwhal*

    I was starting to get worried when the open thread wasn’t up at 11:02, was wondering if I missed an announcement!

    Relatively low-stakes question – I need to announce my pregnancy/upcoming maternity leave at work soon (my boss and HR have known for months), and it was suggested by my boss that I announce it at our upcoming department meeting, where great-grandboss always opens the call with “anyone have any good news to share?”, so perfect segue, and 95% of the people I work with get the news in one fell swoop. My question is, should I tell the rest of my team first? I hadn’t planned on it, but I wasn’t sure if people would feel blindsided. Knowing my coworkers I wouldn’t think so, but I wanted a gut check from the lovely AAM crowd or to hear how their announcements went if you have experience with it.

    (FWIW I’ve been WFH my entire pregnancy, otherwise I’m sure the news would have gotten out sooner/been impossible to keep hidden!)

    1. Recruiter*

      I recommend announcing to your immediate team first, especially if they will be covering your work while you’re out.

    2. ferrina*

      Yeah, I’d definitely tell the rest of your team first. I’d be a little sad if the first I was hearing about a close coworkers’ life-changing news was as an fyi in a large meeting. Do you have a smaller team meeting where you can tell them?

    3. Taxidermybobcat*

      I have been WFH for my entire pregnancy (now month 9, 36 weeks). I waited until I was 6 months pregnant to tell anyone. I told my team first, but asked them not to share, and set some ground rules (I didn’t want advice, or to talk about it frequently, just wanted them to be in the know. I added this prerequisite because there was one team member who is a “misery loves company” type and was notorious for complaining about fatherhood and I wanted to nip that in the bud up front). I then had an opportunity to give an update at a larger meeting, where I announced it to the rest. I don’t know that they would have been offended or anything, but I just felt like it was a courtesy to tell the people I work more frequently with first.

      Also, about every time someone asks me how I’m doing, if I dare say “I’m tired” or answer with anything other than “awesome”, they immediately pounce on my answer with “oh you think you’re tired now? just wait until blah blah blah…” To which I tell them they have to put a dollar in the “just wait until” jar. To fund my baby. Because that’s obnoxious. People and their unsolicited comments :p

    4. Storm in a teacup*

      One of my closest friends from college (who lives on another continent from the rest of us) announced her pregnancy on FB and then also the birth too.
      We all thought we would have found out separately first from her via our group chat but we all get why it’s easier to do in one fell swoop and ultimately it’s lovely news and we are all just happy for her!
      Don’t sweat it and do what is best for you!

    5. WantonSeedStitch*

      Congratulations on the pregnancy! I think it’s best to tell your immediate team first. When I announced my pregnancy at work a couple years ago, I started with my boss and HR, then my direct reports, then my immediate peers, then my indirect reports, then the whole overall team. Basically, I started with those most likely to be directly affected by my absence and moved outwards from that circle.

  28. Spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall*

    Ch-ch-ch-changes. I’ve worked for my boss for over 10 years. She’s leaving. This will mean — at least temporarily — that I will be relied on for support that I am not looking forward to. I’m not a decision maker. Unfortunately, many folks in my department are also not decision makers. When my boss was on leave or on extended vacation (which has happened a few times), I was usually looked as her replacement to make decisions. It sucked. I expect this change to suck as well.

    To be perfectly honest, I’ve been thinking about making a move and considering a career pivot/change. But regardless if I stay or if I go….

    I’m now being asked what I want. What do I want for my position (current or future). What do I want at the company (current and future). What do I need. I don’t know the answer to any of these questions, because for a VERY long time I gave people what they wanted and didn’t factor in myself. So my question to thhe commentariat:

    HOW DO I FIGURE OUT WHAT I WANT?

    What questions should I ask myself? What things should I consider? What lists should I make? Any and all advice welcome.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I would start by looking at your position as it currently is:

      What parts do you like? You want these to stay the same.

      What parts do you not like? Can any of these be eliminated/reduced by making changes in your role or bigger changes in the company?

      Hopefully starting with “what do I like/not like?” and moving on from there will be less daunting than “plan out your entire professional future right now!”

      1. Kes*

        Agreed with the above and also, are there any things that aren’t currently part of your role but you wish they were or would be interested in learning about/getting involved with/taking on? Areas that are tangential to your role but look interesting, or aspects of what your boss does that you have enjoyed covering?

        When you say you’re thinking about a career change, what is it that you want to move away from, and is there anything in particular you have in mind to move to? What about that do you find appealing?

        Also, not just what parts of your job do you like or dislike but what about them do you like or dislike, and what other kinds of work would share or not share those same traits?

        You say you don’t know what you like but you do know some things (you don’t like making decisions, you want a change) so it seems like you maybe just need some more self reflection and analysis to think about what you enjoy and dislike about your job or other potential roles, and dig into why a bit in order to figure out what might work better for you

  29. Marian the Librarian*

    I work in a rather dysfunctional college library. Part of my team’s summer tasks is to clean all the bookshelves. The other day, I was in the stacks and I saw a book cart full of cleaning supplies. A coworker on another team was nearby and I asked her about the cart. She said she was told last year that this summer, it is part of her duties to clean the bookshelves. I told her I was confused–that my supervisor was planning on having my team do it. She said, “Well, I can stop doing it then, if that’s the case.” I backtracked quickly (I do NOT want to do this task, especially considering that it was her team’s boss’s idea to start doing this, and it used to be done by students and not the staff) and said I didn’t want to get anybody into trouble, and we mutually agreed not to say anything further about it.
    Now I’m noticing the cart has disappeared and the shelves are not being cleaned.
    Part of the dysfunctionality: We don’t have a library director, as such. We have an acting director (there’s an active search on) and though she says staff meetings will be held regularly, none have been planned yet. I wonder if I put my foot into it on this one. Coworker and I wondered if this cleaning issue should be brought up at one of those meetings.
    Another part of the problem is, my boss dislikes everyone on every other team. He doesn’t want to work with or cooperate with anyone else, and is very angry about the way our team has been treated during the pandemic (more dysfunctionality).
    My question is: What can I do? Let the whole thing go? Mention it to my supervisor? Keep my mouth shut?
    (Yes, I realize I should probably find another job, but that’s a whole other post). Thanks for listening.

    1. Gracely*

      Damn, I thought my library was dysfunctional.

      Honestly, I would let it go. Focus on the other stuff you have to do.

      1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

        i agree with this. if the situation/management were different, i’d say bring it up. but given the situation, i would let it go.

        if your boss asks about this at some point later on, like why the shelves aren’t being cleaned, then maybe you could ask for clarification on who’s team is supposed to be cleaning.

      2. BRR*

        As a non-library worker maybe I’m missing something but this doesn’t sound that dysfunctional. I agree with LouLou below, just ask your supervisor “I ran into Jane the other day in the stacks cleaning. Was there an update on who is cleaning the stacks this summer?”

    2. Loulou*

      I say this as someone in a different library with very bad communication: you’re overthinking this! Just tell your supervisor that you aren’t clear on who is supposed to be cleaning the shelves and have noticed it’s not getting done. If they say it’s now your job, maybe explain why you think X team should be handling it.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yeah, 100% this. You just need clarity and I think the dysfunction is getting under your skin (100% understandable) and making this into a mountain when it’s a molehill. Just ask.

      2. Marian the Librarian*

        I think I left something important out. My team isn’t supposed to start cleaning until we finish another project. So bringing it up now might not be appropriate.

        The dysfunction stuff is separate. Everything has been handled very poorly since the start of the pandemic. It was kind of bad before that but got worse. You have to tread carefully around this place.

  30. Skye*

    So one of my coworkers is having trouble getting her (w4?) witholdings updated so that she has the appropriate taxes taken out each paycheck. She only noticed at tax time, so that’s between her and the IRS, but going forward it’d obviously be easier for this to not be an issue. She keeps getting sent from our company to the payroll company back to our company. Is there any resources I can point her to for help with this, assuming it hasn’t been fixed since I last asked her about it? (We’re in Texas if that makes a difference.)

    1. fueled by coffee*

      I’m not sure how your company is structured, but I have a W4 over the summers (I’m in grad school, so I get a W2 during the academic year when teaching), and the way I make changes is by printing out copies of the federal and state W4 forms, filling them out, and taking them to HR (who also handle our payroll).

      Who did she originally file her tax paperwork with when she was hired (your company? payroll?)? I imagine they should be able to update the system. Otherwise, what do they do when people’s tax situations change because they get married or have children who become adults and are no longer dependents? This should just be an issue of changing the tax forms over.

      1. BRR*

        If it’s that she’s submitting changes but her withholdings aren’t being updated in her paycheck, I would suggest a three way call with the payroll company and someone from her company. This should do a lot to help with the back and forth.

        If it’s that she doesn’t know what to select for her withholdings, there are numerous calculators online.

        2. Skye*

          It’s that she’s supposed to have withholdings and she’s sent updated updated w4 forms and has gotten the runaround on who is supposed to be in charge of updating it. This is not her first job and she hasn’t had this issue before. I’ll suggest the three way call bit to her, though with payroll being outsourced that might be difficult to make happen.

    2. Snarky McSnarkerson*

      You can get a Form W-4 online at irs.gov. Have her fill it out and then send it to the payroll department. Follow up in a week. Keep sending it to the payroll company. Heck – send it to every person she’s already talked to. You don’t have to wait for them to send you a form. Here’s a link to the PDF version of the form: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf. I hope it gets through moderation!

    3. Payroll Lady*

      She can go to the IRS . gov website and print out a W-4. Read the directions, make the appropriate changes and submit that form to your company/payroll company. The forms use to be easy, however with the payroll tax changes made a few years ago, the form was totally revamped and makes no sense to most of us in Payroll. It is suppose to make it so you break even at year end. (I have yet to but getting closer!)

        1. Wheee!*

          THIS! You can put in a ton of information into the IRS form (from your paystubs) and they’ll give you a reasonably accurate answer on how to fill out the W-4 to get close to a refund/payment of $0.

      2. Skye*

        Yeah, the problem is that there’s *zero* taxes being withheld on her paycheck despite her w4 being set up for having at least some amount of federal taxes being taken out. (Afaik she’s done her w4 correctly, and as she’s not had this problem at other jobs…) And when she’s tried to get her withholdings updated, payroll (which is outsourced) and HR keep pointing at the other for being the one to take care of it.

        1. Librarianmom*

          Seems to me that the company is responsible to make sure that the payroll company is doing their job properly —- they are the payroll company’s customer. Your friend should insist that HR be involved in straightening out the matter, and if they refuse I would threaten to notify the state attorney’s office.

  31. Scoffrio*

    Has anyone ever successfully negotiated a “tier bump” with their org? My org has me in “tier 3”, but I think the job description and my experience should actually put me in “tier 4.” There is some acknowledgement of that – I have a corporate card which is a “tier 4” thing, but don’t have an personal office because I’m in “tier 3.” Would love any advice on how to approach this as I’m pretty frustrated by the inconsistency (and honestly, I would not care if I just got a personal office, I HATE cubicles and cannot work in them). I have tried to just ask for an office, but they are holding the line firm there that offices are only for tier 4+.

    1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      The only place I’ve worked that had a strict tiering system was very strict across the board, so they wouldn’t have given someone a card or an office if they weren’t in the right job category. In order to get a promotion to the next tier you *already* had to be doing the work of the next level up. I had a colleague who was a “tier 3” but was obviously qualified to be “tier 4”. Our manager formally assigned her to “informally manager” our other colleague, also a “tier 3”, so that she could demonstrate the responsibilities of tier 4 and get the formal title bump the following year. Predictably, it did not go well (the other tier 3 really did not appreciate being managed by a peer) so she was recruited to another department where she could get hired into tier 4 from the start.

      That’s probably not a helpful story, but I guess my point is these strict tiering systems usually have pretty hard and fast rules, and you’re better off demonstrating you’re qualified for the tier 4 role instead of asking for it on the basis of wanting an office.

  32. Hestia*

    I’m hoping that this community will have some suggestions for an exhausted training professional.

    I work in healthcare and we have a good deal of government mandated training, which is what you would expect given the serious and personal nature of healthcare. My company is a large one and the vast majority are great people who never push back on completing their training. However…we get a lot of people who just ignore the training – falling way overdue and exposing the company to liability.

    I’m at the end of my rope. We have made the courses shorter (think 7 minutes for an online course) and they are very visually engaging. We created an automated manager report so that every manager could see their employees’ training status (overdue, etc.) and we have automated email reminders!

    What has worked (or hasn’t worked) in your organization in terms of getting people to just take their #*%$ training?

    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      Do their managers get reports on incomplete training? Ours do, & they send reminders to their staff, which helps.

      Is there any budget for prizes? You could do a drawing for people who complete training on time or even early.

    2. Bernice Clifton*

      The only thing that ever worked for me was CCing their supervisor on the reminder, or sending the supervisor an email saying: “Joey and Chandler were supposed to complete their training by the 20th and haven’t responded to reminders. Please advise”

    3. ferrina*

      I’ve found that putting a name to the person haranguing you really helps. Then it’s not just a system thing- it’s an individual person that needs you to do X (and may or may not hunt you down when you don’t do X). Can you go to a particular site or department that is a frequent offender and introduce yourself? Reach out to a few key managers and personally ask them for help?

      I’ve also personalized myself in emails. At one particular place, I threatened to write limericks if people didn’t take our employee engagement survey (and this wasn’t a one-time threat….it was several years running). Or send really bad jokes- “what do you call a first-year resident on an orthopedic rotation? A Train-Knee!….If we don’t get 90% compliance by Friday there will be more puns. The puns will continue until the training gets done.”

      I also like the idea of prizes. Free pizza for departments that have a certain rate of compliance?

      1. ferrina*

        What do you call someone who needs to write bad jokes as a response to incomplete trainings?

        A mandated retort-er!

    4. Storm in a teacup*

      So when I worked frontline healthcare we had the following carrot and sticks:
      Annual flu jab – get a free hot drink
      Mandatory training must be up to date if you’re wanting to do another course or attend a conference or similar.
      Make it a part of the mid year and annual appraisal process so if you have to sign off with your manager your training is complete as a mandatory step.
      Maybe all those who have completed their training in time can get entered into a draw for a prize.
      Finally – MAKE TIME FOR STAFF to do their training. The best way out hospital did it was to lump all of the mandatory training (F2F and online) into a single day a year. Much easier to leave a ward or department for a whole day and have your shift covered than try and squeeze in time to do your training in your regular day. Especially at the moment with Covid pressures. Also if you give free lunch that’s always a bonus.
      Mind you I say this whilst writing this reply to avoid doing my mandatory training!

      1. t-vex*

        I agree that it’s important to give people time to take the training (because how else could they be expected do do it), lumping it all into one day sounds like a surefire way for people to immediately forget everything. I assume the end goal is to have Staff That Are trained, not just Staff Who Sat Through A Slide Deck

        1. CatMintCat*

          I have sat through basically the same slide deck every year for twenty two years. It’s not life-threatening stuff. I set it to run, do something else and answer the questions at the end.

    5. Ginger Pet Lady*

      I work in a hospital, and here you get fired if you refuse to complete a government mandated training. If you forget and miss the deadline, you’re not allowed to work until you finish it. You cannot clock in, you must take the training and report your time to your manager who verifies completion, submits your time for payroll and lifts the hold. If you do not finish it within 7 days of the missed deadline, you’re gone. They do not mess around.
      (They do make exceptions to the 7 day time frame for people who are out on parental leave or FMLA, but that’s it. They do still need to do the training before coming back to work.)

    6. Anon for This*

      Ours cuts off our access to the computer system if we haven’t completed required training (not all of it is related to computer security, though that is one of the courses.) It focuses people wonderfully when they can’t access their e-mail or the internet.

      1. No name yet*

        Yup – I also work in healthcare, and if we don’t do the really important ones (HIPAA, info security, etc) they will turn off our access. So no email, no medical record access, nothing. I like the idea of both carrots and sticks, it would be nice to get something for doing the things I’m supposed to do on time!

    7. Diatryma*

      I am behind on training because it requires two-factor authentication and I’m not allowed to have my cellphone in the lab. I’m also in a position where I can’t set aside an unknown amount of time to train because, well, work. I plan to clock in from home after work and do the training then, taking as much time as is recommended.

      “Visually engaging” matters less to me than “is really, really clear with a limit on jargon” and “applies to me”.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        Is there somewhere else (an office area for instance) you can take that training ans book on your calendar like you would for a meeting? Can an exception be made to the no phone policy just for the time it takes you to complete this? There are several ways around this – I don’t think “work off the clock” (which that would be) is the best answer.

    8. WantonSeedStitch*

      For us, the only way we can reliably get people to take training is to withhold access to key things until they take it. For example, “you want access to the database? You need to take your database training, take the confidentiality training, and sign the confidentiality policy.” If you don’t do the training, you can’t do your job, basically.

    9. acmx*

      At my company, if mandatory training is not completed on time the employee cannot clock in. They have to go to a supervisor who would then have them take the training immediately (but manament is also tracking status).

    10. Cordelia*

      I think the managers need to be invested in getting their staff to do the training; do they take any action when they receive your reports? maybe it’s the managers who need the sticks and carrots. They might then be more likely to address the issue with individual staff, to ensure staff are being given paid time to complete the training, to make sure staff are up to date on the mandatory training before approving any more desirable training, etc.

    11. Me ... Just Me*

      If it’s online education through an education portal that is assigned to each individual, please make it available at the beginning of the year and due at the end of the year, or is open as long as possible. Please, none of this assigning 20 things that need to be done by the end of the month. As an employee, I find that I’m better about getting things done if I have plenty of time and plenty of reminders.

    12. Hillary*

      For employees we use carrots like swag. But on the manager side we use sticks, it’s in the manager’s incentives. 20% of my goals are non-negotiable HR requirements including if my reports have completed their mandatory trainings. The management system tracks it.

      Also, shame. During campaigns HR reports on completion rates by manager during staff meetings. If someone’s team is behind their boss immediately asks why and what they’re doing to make sure everyone is done on time.

    13. Cedrus Libani*

      The only effective method I’ve seen is to increase the pressure. Nagging email every so often from an automated system? Ignored. Pissed-off boss who won’t get their bonus until team is 100% up-to-date with their training? Good luck ignoring THAT.

      Also, at my current workplace, you can’t work (and don’t get paid) if your training isn’t up-to-date. It’s a liability risk, as you say, and they’re not getting sued because you’re too lazy to go clicky-click for a few minutes.

      Otherwise, I’ve seen accessibility be an issue – in one case, the web-based training was old enough to vote, and I didn’t have the budget or authority to replace it, so I stuck an ancient computer in the break room for everyone who literally could not access the stupid thing on their own computers.

    14. Chaordic One*

      What really worked for us was having the different supervisors specifically allocate a certain block of time dedicated to doing the training. They aren’t going to do it on their own time and that means arranging for coverage while they are doing the training.

      Other than that, I would say, please make sure the training materials are current. We have far too many powerpoint presentations that include policies and procedures that are no longer being used, or links that no longer work because they’ve been updated. We recently had a database update and a whole bunch of things no longer work and it is a pain and a real turn-off for already overworked employees with a ton of things on their plates. When that happens, they tune out right away.

    15. Incognito today*

      Provide time for it.
      My company recently declared a recurring, scheduled Development Day and reminders are sent to clear off meetings & deliverables from that day. (I’m not sure how this affects factory production schedules, but engineering’s Agile cycles are cut by a day.)
      It took a couple of repeats before people realize that upper management was serious, then managers started to reschedule their regular meetings away from that day of the week. It has now become my most productive day of the week for tasks that require deep concentration.

    16. Ezri Dax*

      At my company, they make it a performance requirement. If you don’t complete your mandatory trainings by the due date, you’re not eligible for raises or bonuses. Managers are also kept in the loop to monitor progress. I have access to my team’s information in the portal, and I get email alerts when trainings are coming due, overdue, and completed.

    17. Dancing Otter*

      When my F100 client was changing software, they had a 3rd party training provider that gave us statistics 2x/week. My deliverable was a tiered report dashboard for every reporting level, from the lowest manager with only one direct report, all the way to the CEO. I doubt the CEO drilled down to actual employee names, but she definitely *discussed* training compliance (or otherwise) with some SVPs. Firmly. The company eventually reached 98% compliance, and I suspect the 2% may have been people on extended leave.
      For background, people who refused to train on the purchasing module the previous year caused such a problem with bills not getting paid that (a) the auditors took an interest, and (b) one of the food processing plants had to shut down because the pest control vendor stopped working until they got paid.

    18. Nightengale*

      For me, visually engaging trainings are completely inaccessible.. Any chance you could offer a plain text version, just the text of the training and then the test questions?

  33. Newbie without managing talent*

    I’m a new manager and Director of Grooming. I have two direct reports, a Llama Groomer and a Poodle Groomer. We are a sub-division to a larger division and don’t sit in the same location as the other colleagues in the division.

    I therefore thought we should have weekly team meetings the three of us. My problem is that they are turning into reporting meetings, which aren’t necessarily useful because they do the same updates in our 1:1. It might perhaps be useful for them what the other one is doing.

    How can I turn these meetings into something useful for all of use and move away from reporting only? I don’t know what to bring up at these meetings, but feel I ought to have them.

    I’d be grateful for any advice, I’m a little lost here and my learning curve seems to be steeper than I had first thought…

    1. Scott*

      I think you need to decide what your goals are for the meetings and go from there. If you don’t actually have a goal, then what is the point of the meeting? Your employees need to understand the purpose of the meetings and they need to get that from you.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Agreed. To be blunt, few things are more annoying than mandatory meetings that are only happening because someone has a vague sense there ought to be a meeting!

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Don’t have meetings just for the sake of having meetings. Figure out what purpose you want to address with your weekly team meetings and do that. If you can’t come up with a reason for the meeting, then you probably don’t need it. (My monthly team meetings are about 15 minutes and turn into emails about every other month.)

    3. Pop*

      If you don’t know what the meetings are for, weekly is a lot! Maybe switch to monthly, or at least biweekly? And agreed with the other commenter – what are you hoping to accomplish during these meetings? Are they to keep everyone updated about grooming best practices, or brainstorming solutions as a team to individual problems, or get to know each other better, or…? This will help shape what you do with your agenda.

    4. Everything Bagel*

      If you don’t have anything to discuss in these meetings, I’m not sure why you feel the nee,d to have them other than a sense of camaraderie in your group. Maybe monthly team meetings would be more appropriate and useful to you all.

    5. Parakeet*

      I’m one of my manager’s two reports, and what we do is:

      Every week: 1:1s that give reports an opportunity to get support, for managers to give time-sensitive updates, and for manager and report a chance to discuss performance

      Once every two weeks: All three of us meet. we have a section of the meeting for reporting (updates on the llamas/poodles!), an if-needed section for certain kinds of field-specific discussions that I’m not sure how to turn into a metaphor, and an if-needed section to discuss any teamwide programmatic stuff (criteria for determining which animals have the most severe grooming needs, updates to the budget for grooming supplies) that anyone wants to discuss

    6. Texan In Exile*

      In our team meetings, our boss asks us to give a quick update and then make any collaboration asks from the other team members.

      We do a deep dive into our own work and what we need from the boss in our 1 on 1s.

  34. Scott*

    I don’t have a question but wanted to share something I learned recently regarding preparing for an interview on an internal job posting.
    I work in a division headed by our Division Director (DD). There are four groups in the division headed by a first-line manager (Group Lead) with two or three engineers in each group. I’ve worked in this division for 5+ years. Recently one of our Group Leads (GL1) transferred to a different division. Another Group Lead (GL2) moved into this vacant position and the DD posted the open GL2 position. I applied for this job. The interview panel consisted of the DD, GL1, GL3, and my own supervisor GL4 (so we all know one another well).
    Each group in the division works with different people outside of our organization (think contractors). I considered discussing the ins-and-outs of the GL2 job with the person who just left that position (the new GL1) but it seemed like I would be trying to gain an unfair advantage over others who applied.
    So during the interview I was asked questions about some specific things Group 2 is working on. I had a basic understanding but didn’t know many details and admitted I would have to learn some of those things.
    I was not selected for this position and part of the feedback I received from the DD is that I should have asked the former GL2 for insight into the job. It’s not cheating and would not be gaining an unfair advantage, since anyone who applied from other divisions could do the same.
    So – if you are applying to an internal job posting, take advantage of the proximity to the person who has the job (or recently left it) or others in the group to find out all you can.

    1. Me ... Just Me*

      Do you happen to work in government? The reason that I ask is that my husband did get some feedback similar to this on a position he had applied for internally. He’s already in a management role, but was seeking to move up into higher management position in a different department. He did reach a out to a few people that he knew, including the person that had previously held the position. Evidently, other candidates scheduled 1:1 meetings with this person as well as with some of their staff members in order to research the position. This was the first time that I had ever heard of going to such great lengths as an internal candidate to prepare for an interview. I’ve never heard of anyone doing anything similar to this in my industry (healthcare) and wasn’t sure how prevalent it was in the wider business world. It seems that this would take up considerable time if all internal applicants did this? And, I imagine, that it could lead to some bias — what if the outgoing manager didn’t like you and didn’t give you the same information as others?

      1. Scott*

        I do work for the federal government. I’ve been a civilian employee for 10 1/2 years after retiring from a 30 year military career.

  35. Miss. Bianca*

    I posted the below last week. HR ended up sending the wrong job description! I’m so irritated at this point. I asked him what the people already in the Sr. positions do to get them at the level and he couldn’t give me an answer. I’m assuming there isn’t any criteria that shows a difference in my level and the Sr. level. 

    What can I do at this point? Frankly, if it’s taken MONTHS to get a job description and NO ONE can tell me what I need to do to get to the next level, it’s not going to happen and I’m going to continue to get more work dumped on me and have to lead the most complex projects. However I can try to put together some ideas on what I need to work on, but I’m tired of trying to guess. I don’t care, management should be able to tell me in 5 minutes what a brief difference is between my level and the level above!

    Previous Post –
     I have a skip-level meeting with my grand-boss this afternoon. I am a Llama Grooming Manager and trying to get information on the next role up from me (Senior Llama Grooming Manager) and frankly it’s been a frustrating process. For more context, I’ve been with the company for over 2 years and my grand-boss has only been with the company about 6 months. I’ve mentioned to him before that I need this information so I know what I need to work on in order to get to the next level. A few months ago he said he would get the job descriptions for both for me, but then never did. A few weeks ago I sent in a request to HR asking for both job descriptions, when I hadn’t heard anything after a week I let him know and he said he would ask the HR person later that day, but again I never heard back. What makes it extra frustrating, is that I had a manager who refused to go over my 1:1 in detail (so why I got a “good job” instead of an “excellent job” and what an “excellent job” looked like) and only said the difference between the positions was salary…Thankfully he quit a few weeks ago.I’m really frustrated at this point. I have a feeling our company doesn’t know how to differentiate between those 2 positions, making it that much harder to make a case for a promotion or more responsibility. Again, I’m not demanding a promotion, but I’ve been with the company over 2 years, have continuously been given more responsibility and am able to lead projects without my guidance so I think it’s fair I’m asking more on what I need to do to get promoted.I plan on asking him what he heard back from HR. I also think it’s fair I express my frustration with the lack of clarity on this, is there a way to do so without coming off bratty? If he comes back without clarification between the roles, how should I tell him that I really need him to articulate to me what I need to do to get promoted?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I don’t have any advice, I just want to validate that management should be able to explain the difference between your current level and one level above. Frustrating and not a good look for them that they can’t!

      1. Miss. Bianca*

        Thank you lol. Right? Every other place I’ve worked has been able to do that.

    2. PollyQ*

      What you can do at this point is start job-hunting. This question should be a piece of cake for your manager to answer, and that fact that it isn’t says nothing good about him, the organization, or your prospects for advancement.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      At my previous company, I felt like I was ready and qualified for promotion for several years. I proactively had conversations with every manager (they changed every 6 months on average) for years about what that path looked like, how I could best position myself for the next level, and so on. The posted job descriptions used vague terms to differentiate the expectations of each level (junior, mid-career, senior) and the managers’ feedback was keep doing what I was doing. Except, that wasn’t getting me anywhere and I had two colleagues with similar or less experience breeze past me in the meantime. When I had the final conversation, which had clear implications of “promote me or I walk,” I was told I needed to put in another 1-2 years before maybe being considered. I left.

      Sometimes a manager can’t tell you what they’re looking for because ultimately they don’t want to promote you but also don’t want to say that out loud. If I had to guess, even if your grandboss comes back with clarification on what it takes for you to get promoted, it isn’t going to be what you want or deserve to hear. More than likely it’ll be vague promises based on continuing to work those complex projects successfully (also known as, keep doing what you’re doing).

      I forget if you mentioned whether you’re currently job searching, but it’s probably your best path forward and upward. What I asked myself was, if I knew for certain that nothing will change in six months would I still be okay working here? My own answer was no.

      1. Miss. Bianca*

        Wow, this is fantastic insight. Def what I need to hear lol.
        Thank you for sharing this :)

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      It sounds to me like the “senior” role doesn’t really exist as such. If other people have the senior title already, I bet it’s generally given on the basis of “time served”, or in response to someone wanting to leave for a better opportunity, etc. If you job search (which you should imo) and decide to move on… the “senior” position would probably pop out of the woodwork!

      1. Miss. Bianca*

        It does though! Up until last November there was a Senior Llama Grooming Manager. We had a merger a year ago and he was actually part of a layoff, and my Grand-boss started either right when he left or right after he left.

        And in my department there are two other Senior Grooming Managers (think more of Miniature Alpacas than Llamas). However I manage the larger Llamas than them and deal with high profile projects.

        I asked the Grand-boss what they all did to put them at that senior level (because from what I can see I’m dealing with senior level work and autonomy) and he couldn’t answer.

  36. BlueDijon*

    How do you know what a reasonable pace/workload is, during a ‘normal’ period? I got a new job in a very different industry 2.5 months ago, and am struggling to calibrate my sense of what is normal after burning out in a deeply toxic, high stress (entirely internally-created) environment where workload was too high, there was a sense of urgency at all points, and it was the expectation to be working at every moment you were on the job (including multitasking and answering emails or doing other work while being in meetings).

    I am almost certain I’m going too hard on myself about wasting their time, and am definitely trying to dial my urgency levels back to ‘normal’ rather than ‘everything is on fire’, but it would be helpful to have a sense from folks what they would consider a normal pace/workload as well.

    1. Gracely*

      It’s going to depend on the industry/work/etc., but a useful baseline might be, can you take a lunch break easily? Can you finish what you need to get done before it’s due? Most weeks, do you have a couple hours a week to do some professional development (webinars/reading industry reports/networking/skills training/etc.) or something that isn’t strictly related to your output, but that is still “work”? And, once you’ve been there a few months, can you get ahead/caught up enough that you can take a few days of vacation without seriously worrying about what you’ll come back to?

    2. RagingADHD*

      I’d say an ideal workload allows you to get all your work done (or stay on top of ongoing projects) in 40 hours a week, and that about 10-20 percent of that time is spent on non-urgent maintenance, planning, or backlog-clearing tasks that will prevent future problems.

      Constant urgency and overwhelm create a vicious cycle where nobody is looking ahead to foresee preventable problems, or keeping up with routines that make the work easier. So you wind up with everything on fire all the time (which comes down to poor management, usually).

      I’d say things are super slow if you’re spending less than 4 hours a day on current / urgent work, average if you’re spending 5-6, and slammed if you’re doing 7+.

      But I have a history of (and tend to do best in) jobs that have massive short-term crunches with a lot of slow days in between. YMMV.

    3. Cookies for Breakfast*

      I’m in a very similar position! So far, taking cues from my manager and team has been helpful. Every week I have a 1:1 meeting with my manager and one that includes the other team members, and I use them as opportunities to share what I’ve done and what I plan to do next, as well as asking for feedback on my work in progress. I’m mostly hearing “sounds good, keep going!”, which reassures me I’m spending my time on the right things, even when it’s not a full 8 hours of hands-on work. Slow days continue to seem weird, but my manager has said work will pick up a bit once I’m more familiar with the subject matter. Even though I can’t imagine this job ever being as hectic as the previous one, I’m sure my days will fill up some more.

      I’ve also seen, so far, no pressure to pick up work after hours / on my personal devices, and a conscious effort to not tag people in questions and messages when they have time off, which all fits my concept of “normal” and “reasonable”.

    4. GelieFish*

      I think it depends on the industry, but if you are genuinely working then what you can get done is what you can get done. I’d take a look at your organization and balance of short tasks and long-term tasks. How do you feel you’re doing? As someone who recently started a job, I check in with manager weekly to gauge priorities.

    5. BlueDijon*

      Thanks, all! It’s tricky because it varies so much right now – but that’s onboarding, from what I’m hearing! I really appreciate the specifics too – it’s a remote job, too, so hearing metrics from others here is really helpful to consider as baselines.

  37. soontoberetired*

    My company has a range of salary for each job category. I had been consistently at the midpoint of the salary range in my level (highest for me in my job category) until a couple of years ago when the range was upped by a lot. I am $8000 off the midrange now, and will not hit it since I will be retiring right before the next pay raise, and they won’t give me that much either. In previous years, when the midpoint changed, I received enough of a raise to hit the midpoint again, but we’re just talking $2000 or so.

    what do other companies do about range changes? do they up people accordingly? My company also has this thing where if you hit the midpoint, you can expect not to see much in raises. There’s no real explanation why they have a higher range if they never let people hit it.

    1. linger*

      If no incumbents are allowed to reach it, I’d start to suspect that the high end of the range exists only for publication purposes, to attract in external candidates when hiring for those positions. So … do new hires at your company often come in making more than existing staff in comparable roles?

  38. FoxInABox*

    Can some other people bitch a bit about Salesforce Marketing Cloud so I feel like I’m not alone?

    1. Twisted Lion*

      Ha yes. Failsforce. I hated it SO MUCH at my non-profit job. Litterally the worst software ever.

      1. MJ*

        Interesting. We are currently looking at their NPSP for donor management and grant tracking (grant disbursing rather than receiving for spending on programs). I’d love to know what sorts of problems you encounter?

    2. Come On Eileen*

      We moved from Eloqua to SFMC a year and a half ago, and it’s been such a challenge and a struggle.

    3. Oprah*

      oooh oooh me! My biggest rant is that the sales team that is supposed to enter data so that I can glean marketing insights from it…just doesn’t. And they lost their whole sales pipeline over the last three months, haven’t replaced it, so the managers are supposed to be handling leads at the moment. I guess this isn’t a Salesforce rant after all.

      1. Oprah*

        Also I just realized you meant Marketing Cloud and not the DB. I’ll show myself out.

      2. Texan In Exile*

        RE Sales team not entering data. Yep – that was the issue with us at my old job. I wanted to identify customer pain points so we could take them to R&D. But the sales team usually entered “price too high” as the reason for losing the sale. (“Lowest price” was never the reason for winning, though.)

        I don’t know about actual SF problems, but when your company does not have good data practices – looking at you, former employer – then you get garbage data.

  39. JackJack*

    I need a little ego check about how to respond to a job rejection email. I was a finalist for a job that had a lot of downsides (low pay, not great benefits, no WFH options etc) but I kept sticking with it just to see the outcome and while working my way through a much better job’s interview process. After a few interviews and a coffee with the potential manager this week I just sent a rejection email. In the email she says something along the lines of “I am sure you are really disappointed”. It is probably best for me just to send a quick note thanking her for her time, right? A big part of me wants to be like I understand and agree it wasn’t the best fit. Something about her assuming I am disappointed really bugs me.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Uh, her letter makes complete sense to me, and so here’s your requested ego check.

      From her perspective, you applied for a job and went through the interview process. Ergo, you wanted the job. Ergo, you not getting the job would be disappointing.

      She didn’t know that you were just considering the whole thing as a practice interview or a mostly-undesired fallback position, did she?

      Not to mention, that kind of line is just standard bread-and-butter language. Would you expect the letter to say “you didn’t get the job, and I’m sure you must be relieved”?

      1. Jackjack*

        Haha you’re totally right. I’m just completely burnt out by job searching and feeling annoyed I put a lot of energy into this job I wasn’t sure I wanted just to end up rejected anyway. Thank you!!

    2. Scott*

      I can see how you would receive that comment the way you did but I’d let it go. It is probably not going to get you anywhere to correct their thinking.

    3. Trina*

      I don’t think it was an unreasonable assumption for her to make; you did not withdraw from the process, so as far as she knew you wanted the job to some degree, and of course there is disappointment whenever you don’t get something you want. That said, “I understand and agree it wasn’t the best fit” doesn’t sound to me like a message that would convey annoyance? But it does sounds like unnecessary time/thought investment for you where a generic “thanks for your time” would be fine.

    4. Jellyfish*

      She’s probably trying to be gentle because no one likes being rejected. Say thanks and let it go. Anything else would be weird.

      I get the impulse to say more! In my last search, I was a finalist for two jobs and decided Job A was a significantly better fit than Job B. Job A called me with an offer, which I happily accepted. Before I could withdraw from Job B, they called me with a rejection. It made total sense, I wasn’t going to take the job at that point anyway, and it still stung when the director said, “I’m sad to say we’re going in another direction.”

      That bit about being sad got under my skin because they rejected me AND assumed I’d be upset about it. They were just trying to be kind though.

      In any case, best of luck with your job search going forward!

    5. Lily Rowan*

      “Oh no, I’m not disappointed at all! I didn’t want your crappy job anyway!”

      You can just save that response in your heart.

  40. Put the Blame on Edamame*

    Working on a project that is kicking my arse, I’ve been dreading it since I knew I’d be PM and I am indeed out of my depth. We are blowing past deadlines and even though the client is OK with it, I hate it. I can barely imagine it finishing, but it has to, I am sick of waking up in a state of anxiety every morning. It’s not gonna break me but it’s coming close…

    1. ferrina*

      I’ve been there. It’s okay.

      A perspective shift can help. You aren’t “blowing past deadlines”- you are adjusting them (something that I regularly need to do when a client completely misses their deadline- cool, I’ll just move everything else back). If you are still moving forward, then the end is inevitable. Out of your depth? You’re just charting new waters (okay, that may be a bit of a stretch. But trust me, after the Project From Hell, regular old Projects From Heck hold no terrors).

      In the meantime, take your own breaks. As much as possible, leave work at work. Schedule out time that you absolutely will not work. And give yourself permission to eat lots of chocolate (I recommend Trader Joe’s Dark Chocolate Covered Raisins- those got me through a lot of late nights.) Good luck!

      1. Put the Blame on Edamame*

        Thank you so much for responding to my vent post, I’m trying to be reasonable with myself, but it’s so hard right now? And chocolate is definitely a great idea. You’re very kind. I feel like I should be working all evening but it’s 7pm where I am and I’ve got so little done in the last hour I might just stop and pick up tomorrow.

    2. Ranon*

      Sometimes deadlines adjust, that is okay. If the client is okay with it that means either they think the reason for adjusting it is a good one or it wasn’t that important to meet it, and either way that means there’s very little reason to beat yourself up about it.

      For us deadline oriented folks seeing schedules slip is super frustrating, but there are also people out there like my former boss who would straight up plan on missing a deadline literally weeks if not months in advance of said deadline. Sometimes no amount of pushing on your part is going to make a date happen and the best thing to do is to save your effort until it can be impactful.

  41. Emma*

    We have our annual reviews coming up in July and I haven’t exceeded any expectations this year: rather the opposite. I’d like to have a conversation with my boss before July to make him more favourable towards me. He keeps piling more work on me but I struggle under the workload and am performing badly. I’m also rather shy and bad at highlighting my achievements, so this year I am worried I will get 2 in my annual review.
    I know it’s very last minute, is there anything I can do to prep for the July review meeting?

    1. Gracely*

      Lay out all the things you’re normally expected to do, and then add all the extra things your boss is piling on top of you, and maybe point out the difference between last year and this year, and maybe point out that there is only so much time to do all of the things? And maybe ask for the boss to prioritize the work for you? If he won’t, then figure out what is most important and make your own priorities, so that what work you are able to do is done well.

      1. ferrina*

        And do this now! Tell your boss that there isn’t enough hours for the extra responsibilities- what would they like you to prioritize? Then keep them updated. This will work for a reasonable boss. (and an unreasonable boss is a lost cause).

        In the meantime, start prepping an achievement list now! Especially if this is something that you struggle with. Practice noting your accomplishments- there will be a lot that you have forgotten. Practice bragging- it will feel strange, but do it until you can speak about your accomplishments with confidence. Ideally we would all be as comfortable talking about our accomplishments as we are talking about our areas for growth.

        1. Gracely*

          Yes! An achievement list is a great idea. And after this year, keep one year-round: I have a post-it next to my computer where I make note of anything I’m doing that’s outside of my normal job requirements so that I can remember to include it in my self-eval at the end of the year. You might prefer a digital version or some other way of keeping track, but do keep track!

          1. Hen in a Windstorm*

            Yep, our system was a 1-5 system, and my boss would respond “Five!” to things she thought were excellent, so I had a document titled “Fives.” I also had an email folder where I put any kudos I received through the year so I could go back through it at year end. (Otherwise I might forget that awesome thing I did in March that saved everyone’s bacon.)

    2. Policy Wonk*

      Start with what was written in your original work requirements. Everything your boss has piled on you since then is over and above expectations. So maybe you are exceeding expectations. Since this isn’t until July you have plenty of time to prepare. Start a document now – if you haven’t kept track of what you have done over the year, go through your logs or e-mails – list everything you’ve done, and highlight accomplishments. Then turn it into a script. When your review comes, if you are too shy to say what you’ve accomplished, you can read it to him. Or at worst, hand it to him.

      I really hate the way some bosses take advantage of their employees. He knows you are shy so he piles the work on you because you won’t say no! Make sure you get credit for it being over and above what was expected.

  42. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

    I need some scripts for telling my staff (8 direct reports, 7 more grand-reports) and colleagues that I am leaving without another job lined up! My core reasons for leaving are: I personally have too much work (as do most of them) and too many tasks I dislike (as do most of them) and I am underpaid (which they are too), and I am financially secure enough that I can live off savings for a while and decompress. Basically, Great Resignation. But I don’t want to demoralize them by saying that out loud. I could fall back on “I want to spend more time with my kids this summer”, which is also true as far as it goes. But as a woman I don’t necessarily want to play into stereotypes about being a mom comes first. My boss just shrugged and said say whatever I want, when I asked him if he wanted to message it together.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You: “I’m resigning effective June first”
      That’s it.

      If you get asked “Oh where are you going?”, you can answer “I don’t know yet. I have some ideas and leads, but I want to take a break for a few months.”

      The amount of money you have saved up, your kids, etc. are all irrelevant.

      1. ferrina*

        I really like this wording. Some of your employees (if not all) will read between the lines, and I’d argue that that’s a good thing! It’s okay if they’re demoralized by having too much work and work that they dislike! The right thing to do in that situation is find a better situation- which you’re doing! This is just another way of setting a good example.

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      Do you need to tell them anything? I think you’re fine just saying “I’ll be leaving [organization] on [date], here are the plans for who’s taking over what, etc…I’ve enjoyed my time here and I’m looking forward to what comes next.”

      1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

        I think someone out of my 15 will ask “Why?” and I don’t want to be too weird about it. It’s not like I owe them an explanation but it’s nice for them to have some information to help process the change.

        1. A Simple Narwhal*

          Possibly, and something vague like “it was the right time” or “it was the right move for me” should cover your bases. But you said that most of your team is also overworked and underpaid, so I can’t imagine anyone is going to be surprised or shocked at you leaving.

          I was also worried about answering questions after I gave notice at my last job with nothing lined up, but no one ended up actually asking – they knew what the work environment was like, no one was surprised that I was getting out. Almost all of them ended up getting out shortly after too. Granted I worked on a smaller team and wasn’t the boss like it sounds like you are, but that might mean they’re even less inclined to ask somewhat personal questions of you.

    3. Alice*

      Congrats :)
      Without saying anything bitter or grumpy or otherwise unpressional, I would say things that are true, if I say anything. (And btw, “I want to spend more time with my kids” is true, but “I am resigning because I want to spend more time with my kids” is not true, it sounds like.)
      If your staff are overworked, dislike their tasks, and are underpaid, they are not going to suddenly switch from being fully-gruntled to disgruntled because of anything you say about why you are leaving. I suspect your boss shrugged because there’s not really anything that can be said to re-gruntle the staff in this situation. Except for “we are expanding the team to make the workload manageable, allowing you to delegate the tasks you all dislike, and increasing salaries.” That would probably do it :)
      What I think you should say is, are you willing to serve as a reference for these people and how should they get in touch with you about that.

    4. Prospect Gone Bad*

      Is there no way to make this work? It seems like you’re leaving at the peak of your career with many signs pointing to a recession. We know from the last one that many experienced professionals were then willing to take anything, but no one wanted them because they were “overqualified.” Great resignation is really industry specific so there isn’t a way for us to know how easy it will be to jump back in.

      Just asking about something you didn’t ask, if I were you, I’d make one more last ditch effort to shuffle things around before I left. Make someone else a Director to share workload, for example.

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        Just to clarify, I see the sentiment “i am leaving my job because too much work” online. I have no way to know how overwhelmed people actually are or how much leeway they have to change the situation. I know from my work life that many people who are overwhelmed actually just need help moving certain projects along or with certain people and it’s not truly a “literally too much work” scenario. And the situation can be worked on.

        And from a hiring manager perspective, this can be a huge red flag. As in, the ability to handle alot of a cornerstone of a mid-career applicant or manager. you usually ask “how do you handle stress”

        Just saying, I don’t want you fighting an uphill battle trying to get back into the work world.

      2. All Monkeys are French*

        This is concern trolling, and not what Lunch Eating Mid Manager asked for. They’ve already given notice and are seeking advice on how to tell their team.

        2. Prospect Gone Bad*

          No this isn’t concern trolling. Concern trolling is pretending to care about something and being fake nice.

          I am simply being upfront and telling them that I don’t think they’re addressing the real issues here. There isn’t a term for that beyond “saying what I think”

          1. All Monkeys are French*

            Well, it’s most certainly offering unsolicited advice with the sense that you know better. I called it concern trolling because it is about trying to get someone to comply with more traditional norms rather than let them make a different choice, under the guise of being worried about their welfare (or career trajectory, in this case).

      3. A Simple Narwhal*

        I can appreciate your concern at distance, but people rarely leave their jobs with nothing lined up on a whim – they’ve typically exhausted their options and are just jumping into a life boat.

        “Are you sure you can’t make it work” is the exact sentiment my parents expressed that made me not want to share with them that I was quitting a job with nothing lined up. They probably meant it out of concern, but it was not helpful to hear when they hadn’t seen how I had been dry-heaving from stress and crying daily for months when I was “trying to make it work”, and it made me feel that they didn’t trust me to make good decisions, even though I was a fully independent adult with a career and life separate from them.

        So maybe it’s my personal experience speaking, but I trust that when Lunch Eating Mid Manager says she needs to leave, she’s tried to make it work and it’s not working.

        2. Prospect Gone Bad*

          Yup. I think this is the issue with internet advice in general, a person is often asking about the snowball on the top of the iceberg and telling you to ignore the iceberg. Or just as often the person responding has them confused.

          Every case is different. Your case happens. I’ve also seen people afraid to ask for changes and assume they’re impossible and not try. Only OP can know. But it is worth mentioning. And doing. If you’re going to be unemployed with the real risk of never finding comparable work again (which they may not want, but still), it sure as hell is worth a 30 minute conversation like “can we promote Sally to a Junior Director” or “can we split this into two teams.”

          You mention your parents. Well, older people give out advice because they don’t want us repeating their mistakes. If it doesn’t apply in one’s situation, you can just say “tried that, didn’t work” and move on. I don’t know, I feel like I am getting more lax in middle age and become fine with people throwing advice at me and taking some and throwing out others and telling people that I tried theirs and it didn’t work, and moving on. I don’t see the cause for conflict here. I wasted so much time in my 20s being mad that someone gave me advice in passing, like it was this huge criticism of how I do stuff. Now I literally don’t care. I realized that it’s not as deep as people make it out to be.

          That’s why I don’t get one of the replies above. In this case, it’s not like they asked about work and I gave them weight loss tips in response:-)

    5. SofiaDeo*

      I am sorry to hear that your job has gotten you so stressed out that you think business staff/grand reports and colleagues need any “reason” why you are making a personal decision/doing a personal thing. It’s not business related, there is no “need to know” regarding your reasons. They don’t need to know any reasons regarding why you haven’t lined up another job, do they? What if it was an urgent family health situation? What if you won the lottery? What if you were starting a competing business? I don’t see how your “reasons” are any of their business, as something they are “owed”. Alton Brown’s Evil Twin and A Simple Narwhal stated it beautifully. You can comment on how to reach you as a reference if willing to do so to your direct reports. For colleagues, if you converse with them casually, let it come up organically if your job affects theirs. For people who are actual friends, most likely they already know why you are leaving. I do thing a “grand announcement” other than “I will be leaving as of such and such” would affect people more if you started trotting out reasons. Just gently deflect as others have suggested.

      Others have mentioned

      1. SofiaDeo*

        Others have mentioned perhaps you should reconsider, but if you are so stressed/exhausted/not thinking clearly, you probably are making the right choice. There’s a Great Resignation going on for a for a reason.

    6. Manchmal*

      How about burnout? It sounds like it is true to some extent and it’s definitely something people understand! Your coworkers sound burnt out too, but you don’t have to protect them from the fact that you’re in a position to take time off. I’m sure their first thought will be – good for her!

  43. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

    * cue the “i’m back again” tiktok song *

    more cover letter questions! for context, i’m applying for jobs in quality control, document management, other roles like that. i know my library experience transfers, but unfortunately i’m having a hard time getting anything other than rejections haha. i know a lot of it is probably on me and how i do my cover letters, and i am doing my best to fix any mistakes going forward.

    however, i wonder if part of the problem is that i do have my mlis (masters of library and information science) and that might make people think i’m overqualified? is there wording i can use to let people know i know i am overqualified (to be clear, i’m only talking specifically degree-wise) but i don’t mind? i know i shouldn’t take the degree off, but i don’t know how to handle having it….

    thanks, everyone. this site and commenters have all been so helpful and i can’t think y’all enough. i posted here in january about other options that i could do, and specific experience i have, and you gave me several suggestions, which gave me hope when i really didn’t have any and really needed something.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      If you are specifically worried about your MLIS, you can take it off of your resume and not mention it in your cover letters. Some people in other fields might have a general idea that an MLIS is required for librarian jobs, but even those people won’t say “job title = librarian, hmm this person must have a master’s degree. overqualified!” when they’re scanning your resume/reading your cover letter.

      If you’re worried that taking the degree off will create a gap (or anything else about taking it off), you can have two versions of the resume: one with the degree and one without. Apply to about half of jobs with one version, and the other half with the other version. You could even do this for a limited period of time and keep track of which job received which version of your resume so you can see if there’s any change in responses from companies.

      Best of luck with your search!

      1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

        ooo, thank you! i like the idea of kind of testing the degree thing out!

        i don’t know if people actually care about my mlis, but i feel like some people might just write me off because i have a masters of any kind, so we’ll see….

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      As Hlao-roo mentioned, you don’t need to put your MLIS on your resume. I know tons of people with PhD’s who have omitted them from their resumes when they think it’s more of a harm than I help. You don’t want to put a degree you don’t have on your resume, but leaving one you do have off? 100% kosher and fine.

      Instead, I would focus on how your job experiences serve the work you’re applying too. If it makes you feel better, call your education section, “Relevant Education” and leave it at that. I mean, I have some random certifications that I would leave off if not applying for the right type of job.

      1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

        I- wait…..

        I can leave education off???!!! I love the idea of calling it “relevant education.” but will it look weird if someone looks at, say, my linkedin (just as like research idk) and finds out that i actually do have a masters degree?

        1. linger*

          You could ask them in turn how much the degree is worth to them? :-)
          N.B. if your work history contains jobs for which the degree was a prerequisite, then it’s harder to justify leaving the degree out because then it is relevant to other parts of your CV, even if not to the job applied for. (Unless you then leave those parts of the work history off as well; but that could leave too many holes.)

  44. Sandlapper*

    How do you handle people who get your name wrong? My first name is a common nickname of a very common US name (most popular female name for more than a decade). It is written out in my email address and signature. But ~30 – 40% (US English speakers) get it wrong.

    If we are in person, I will try to quietly correct them. I have corrected a few close colleagues on email. But I tend to let the rest go despite it bothering me.

    Does anyone else have a similar issue?

    1. Ashe*

      Just correct them in email to. I occasionally misspell or read a coworkers name and a simple line responding like.

      “Thanks for the answer! It’s actually Sandlapper.”

      Has never upset me and usually I get it right after then.

      I’ll also say, as an English speaking white person with an English white last name that is frequently misheard and misspelled, people are honestly just in attentive.

    2. The Prettiest Curse*

      As someone with a hyphenated first name that people frequently mess up, tjis is my policy:

      If someone gets it wrong while speaking to me, I will correct them once if it’s someone I work with infrequently, twice (on separate occasions) if it’s someone I work with frequently. After that, if they get it wrong, it’s on them and not me.
      If it’s via email or chat, I pretty much don’t care at this point, unless it’s a member of my immediate work team. It’s just too much hassle to constantly correct people.

      People usually mess up my name by omitting the part after the hyphen. Sometimes people have got my first name entirely wrong by saying 2 names of similar length that are also frequently used in hyphenated first names. Missing off part of my name is not great, but understandable – but just try to get one part of my name correct. That’s all I ask!

    3. fueled by coffee*

      This happens to me a lot (my name is the less popular spelling of a fairly common name; think Hayley instead of Hailey). I mostly do what you do – correct the spelling with close people (usually by replying to their email, and then adding at the bottom, “P.S.: I spell my name ‘Hayley’!”) and ignoring it but being irked the rest of the time.

      I’ve always *wanted* to respond to “Zack” instead of “Zach” and “Aimee” instead of “Amy,” but I’m not that brave.

      1. Jordan with an A*

        That happens to me constantly with the most common spelling of my name! I am forever getting “Jordon” with an O in the second syllable. I’ve never even met someone who spells it that way.

        It’s real frustrating.

        1. Roy G. Biv*

          That’s like Bart Simpson trying to get a sticker with his name on it, but he can only find “Bort.” Bort?!?

          1. Eff Walsingham*

            Ha! I’ve been “Bort” all my life, and it used to bug me as a kid. No stickers, no pens, no keychains, no coffee mugs (what the heck did I even need a coffee mug for? But still.)

            So one of my aunts had a custom necklace made for me.

            With an extra “n”. She always put an extra “n” in my name because it looked “prettier”. I have no idea what happened to that necklace.

    4. Everything Bagel*

      I have a short name that’s easy to pronounce, but has 2 equally used ways to spell it. I don’t care when people get it wrong and an email. It would never occur to me that I should correct someone and how they spelled my name. I figure they’ll figure it out if they go back through the email and see how I signed off. I might feel differently if they were calling me a completely different name all together.

    5. Popinki(she/her)*

      People are forever trying to stick a W into my last name. Let’s pretend that my last name is Poposki. It’s on my birth certificate, social security card, driver’s licence, income tax forms. People keep trying to turn it into PopoWski.

      Everyone from cashiers saying “have a nice day, Ms Popowski!” to my second grade teacher, WHO WOULD CORRECT MY SPELLING OF MY OWN FLUFFING LAST NAME, IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT SHE’D KNOWN BOTH MY PARENTS SINCE HIGH SCHOOL, to the guy I report to at the county level who still can’t get it right after 14 years of correction. Even when I spell it out for people, without the W, they stick it in.

      Making it worse, there are Popowskis in the same area and I’ve had people offering heartfelt condolences for a Popowski who has died and I have to explain that we’re not related and I don’t know that person from Adam.

      I’ve spent my life trying to get it through people’s heads that there is no W in my last name. Ranging from a polite “It’s Poposki – no W” to scribbling in giant letters with a red marker “THERE IS NO W IN MY LAST NAME” and nothing works.

    6. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I used to get it more frequently, because my name was very popular for my generation, but is no longer commonly used (at least in my area), so it mostly depends on what way they get it wrong…

      1. Wrong name altogether like Mindy* instead of Wendy*, I guess it might be passive-aggressive in a way, but I usually start the message like, “Hi X, This is Wendy. I’ll be helping you with XYZ ….” etc.

      2. Correct name but wrong spelling, I mostly let it go because my real name has 2 equally common spellings and as long as they got my name right, I’m not that invested. About 63% of the time, they fix it themselves on the next email.

      3. Nickname that I don’t use… I think about how likely it is to be a problem. Is this a person I’m going to work with often, or it matters that my name is correct because I’m going to be listed on a committee, or it’ll cause confusion with someone else? I’ll point it out “Please call me Wendeline, not Wendy.” Conversely, if is this a one-and-done communication, I just let it go.

    7. Anonymous to protect the guilty*

      People have been pluralizing my last name for my entire life (“Waters” instead of “Water”, for instance), because it more commonly ends in an “s”.

      I just matter of factly correct the spelling. Every time. In person and in writing/email.

      My first name can be pronounced several different ways, no way to tell from the spelling. I’ll correct people who get it wrong if I’m going to see or work with them again, but I frame it as, It’s hard to know how to pronounce my name, for sure!

      People who see me fairly often and ought to know better because they see me fairly often, I correct every time. Sometimes with a bit of a joking tone — dude, howcome you never remember that it’s LORE-a, not LOW-ra? (not my actual name). Depends on the person.

      We had a colleague with an African name which was always mispronounced by their boss…so the rest of us started mispronouncing the boss’s name (all the same way)

    8. Eff Walsingham*

      I’m sitting here trying to figure out if it bothers me less now that I’m older, or what. Certainly my name has gone from being almost unheard-of on this continent to occasionally seen but with multiple spellings. I think I’ve evolved from purposeful correcting people to just replying with my signature block and hoping they catch on.

      In my experience, people who struggle with names will take as long as they will take to learn it, and potentially embarrassing them won’t help. And then there are the jerks. “Oh, your name is just so DIFFICULT!” *giggle* “I bet it took a long time to learn how to spell it as a kid! Don’t you have a nickname? How ’bout if I call you (syllable)? Would that be okay?” Jerks. There’s no point in expecting them to change, but I try to keep quietly saying, “Actually, it’s (all the syllables)” in person, for the benefit of anyone else present who might want to know.

      At my last company there was an Assistant Manager who was always swanning around mispronouncing and misnaming a lot of us, and being predictably annoyed if she paged “Manuel” and Jose didn’t respond, etc. I noticed a lot of conspiratorial glances, as the rest of us scrupulously and subversively checked our pronunciations with each other. Since we each knew how it feels when someone doesn’t make the effort, it was worth it for us to be more sensitive and respectful.

      The week they promoted that woman, I quit. There was a lot else wrong with her leadership style, but what does it say about a company when they promote someone who can’t even successfully page 75% of her own reports? This, after more than a year working with some of us. Her credentials on paper must’ve been amazing. But anyway, yes, names. I think my takeaway on the subject has been that I can’t do the other person’s work for them (learning my name). All I can do is provide them with the information and help them if they ask (“the P is silent”). And then just try to let go of my annoyance, or complain to my cat when I get home.

  45. Alex*

    I’m getting ready to go to my first-ever conference as an exhibitor. I work in a generally casual field, and the conference is a generally casual field. That said, I’m not sure what the usual dress code is at conferences, especially as an exhibitor, and due to some pandemic weight gain, most of my “nicer” clothes don’t fit anymore. I’m trying to figure out how many new pieces of clothing I need to buy–could I get away with dark jeans and a blazer, or do I need more businessy pants? I have a businessy skirt I can wear for two days but the conference is five days so I need five outfits. I have some decent blouses–it’s the pants (and my expanded behind) that I need to figure out.

    1. Filosofickle*

      Really depends on the conference! I typically don’t feel safe wearing denim to any business event unless I’m damn sure it’s ok. What I do in cases like this is google pictures of prior events and see what people have worn in the past.

      1. Alex*

        Oh good idea! I just did that and see people wearing cargo shorts and jeans so I guess I’m good lol.

    2. sagewhiz*

      Above all, COMFY shoes! You may think you know but you have no clue how tired your feet and legs will be at the end of every day. Take it from someone who’s been there, done that, too often!

      1. Me!*

        OMG this. Large venues will probably have hard floors, too. I was told this before a major event at an old job, so I went out and bought a pair of $80 Eccos. It was worth it; my feet felt like I was walking on a cloud instead of a concrete floor and they lasted for the next eight years.

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yes! This! And if its in a warm humid place, be sure to remember that sandals get sweaty and may not dry overnight, so wearing socks is often a better idea, because you can change your socks several times a day if you need too.

      3. AcademiaNut*

        Yes! Comfortable shoes, and maybe a spare set of socks (or even socks and shoes) for swapping out mid day. I’d wear a pair of comfortable slacks, a patterned short sleeve or sleeveless top, and have a solid blazer or sweater for when I’m not moving and the A/C is cranked up. Also, I’d coordinate my mask with either the subject matter or my outfit, and bring a couple of extra masks for swapping out if they get sweaty.

      4. Texan In Exile*

        A friend pops an ibuprofen in the morning before the 8 hours on the floor and swears it helps. (In addition to the Comfy Shoes, of course.)(And don’t worry that women’s Comfy Shoes are ugly. Your feet are more important.)(That is, DO NOT WEAR HIGH HEELS AS I DID ONE TIME.)

    3. Lily Rowan*

      If your bottoms are neutral, you can wear the same pants or skirt more than one day, especially at a conference!

    4. WellRed*

      I’ve see the gamut. I’d personally go for nice dark jeans and dressier tops maybe with a jacket. Those exhibitor halls can also get chilly

    5. Policy Wonk*

      RE: dress code, you will see everything from formal suits to cargo shorts. As you are an exhibitor you can’t get away with the cargo shorts, but dark jeans with a nice shirt and blazer should be fine. (Or even just the shirt if it’s hot, as long as it is a nice shirt.) Re-use the pants – no one will even notice them. Just wear different tops. And be sure to wear very comfy shoes – conference centers often have hard concrete floors that are very hard on your feet and legs. (I recommend “Nurse Mates” – designed for people who are on their feet all day.) Enjoy the conference!

    6. SofiaDeo*

      For 5 days, I would have 1 neutral bottom with a backup to rotate, switching every other day. 5 different tops unless you want to be washing things in the hotel sink. A sweater (esp if on a plane) or blazer/jacket. 1 pairs extra socks and underwear plus pantiliners brought with you into the exhibition hall in a ziplock bag. Sometimes sore feet could be mitigated somewhat by a change of socks, even with super comfy shoes. And if the “rules” say you aren’t supposed to leave the space unattended, and you’re the only person manning the exhibit at some point, you might need the liners/underwear to change if you are far from a bathroom, or are stuck with an attendee longer than anticipated and have a tiny accident.

  46. BunchACrunch*

    Wondering if anyone can offer advice. I recently started as an office manager at a tech startup. The position is new, and it’s clear after a couple of months that there is little to no actual office policy, outside of a few security measures. So I’m writing one! But I’ve come across a unique problem – we had a staff member bring their SO to work for the whole day. It was apparently an issue of convenience for the staff member, but no one was notified, and the SO sat at someone’s unoccupied desk for the day. They also, noticeably, participated on the weekly provided company lunch. My manager was just as aghast by this as I was, but neither of us knew how to approach it, so my manager said she would talk to the staff member’s boss. His response was “well, we’ve been lax about visitors in the past, so I think if you want to enforce anything, you need to put it in a policy and share it with everyone.” I don’t disagree with him! But my manager was “shocked” that he didn’t find it as inappropriate as she did, and now wants me to release the office policy *today* that explicitly outlines her issues with personal guests.

    I know I need to release this policy, it’s already written, but I’m not sure how to address this without singling out one person, which I just do not feel comfortable doing. What makes it doubly difficult is my manager doesn’t want to completely ban all personal visitors, she wants me to state that “we can’t have people come in and sit at a desk all day and eat our company lunch.” It’s way too specific!

    1. ecnaseener*

      I think Boss #2 has it right – you and your own boss may think this should’ve been obvious where to draw the line, but it apparently wasn’t. And the staff member could’ve easily assumed someone would speak up if it wasn’t OK for her partner to take food, and apparently nobody felt the need to do so. Let go of those pearls you’re clutching and simply announce the NEW policy that brief visits of say 20 minutes are fine but company-provided food and resources are not for visitors.

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      Hmm, perhaps something like “Personal visitors are allowed, please use discretion and your best judgement to ensure that their presence will not be detrimental to your coworkers and the general work environment. Anything longer than a quick visit will require a visitor’s pass/check-in at the front desk (depending on how your office and/or security works). All visits should be cleared with your manager ahead of your guest’s visit.”

      I debated whether only long visits should be cleared with managers or if all visits should be cleared, but in theory you really should be at least giving people a heads up if you’re having someone come into the office for anything beyond “I forgot something and they’re handing it to me at the front desk and then leaving”.

      You’d think a tech startup, which probably has a bunch of proprietary software and other security concerns, would be way more wary of randos coming into the office willy nilly!

      1. BunchACrunch*

        This is a super young start up. They don’t have a front desk or receptionist, and a major part of my job right now is creating some kind of order around the office. So I’m not surprised or put off by the insistence on a policy as I agree we need one. Right now the policy is just…message this slack channel if you’re expecting a visitor. Which people barely do.

    3. Bernice Clifton*

      I would say something like: “Family or friends are welcome to visit you in the office occasionally. Social visits should be kept brief. Social visitors are not permitted to take part in company-paid meals without the approval of [your supervisor/whomever organizes the meals]”

      1. Becky*

        Good wording, though I would remove the “social” from the last two statements so it becomes “Visits should be kept brief. Visitors are not permitted…” etc.

        I can see someone twisting themselves around justifying that it isn’t a “social visit, they’re my family/husband/child/nephew/great aunt/whatever.”

        1. Bernice Clifton*

          Yeah, I have worked in some offices/industries where it isn’t unheard of for vendors or clients to stop by for visits when they don’t have an express business purpose to do so – was trying to head off an employee saying “How come my husband can’t hang out with me when the UPS guy talks about fantasy football with the Accountant every day?”

    4. RagingADHD*

      Break it up.

      Company-provided meals are for employees (and clients?) only. Meals with non-employees who are not clients should be taken off-site, off the clock.

      Visits from family and friends should be brief and not interrupt work time. Visitors may not occupy company desks or workspaces, participate in an employee’s work, or remain on the premises unattended by their host employee.

    5. soontoberetired*

      Wow. We don’t have a written policy on visitors but we work with a lot of confidential information and there’s protections around that which would cover visitors that aren’t there for a special event (retirements, special anniversaries, bring your kid to work day). So protecting information is a good reason to list for limiting visitors.

  47. The Wizard Rincewind*

    I’m trying to be a better employee for my supervisor. I’ve ranted before about my coworker’s attitude problem, and I realized after reading more of this website that I was letting him drag me down with him. It probably didn’t make my supervisor’s job any easier. Now I’m doing my best to take deep breaths and count to 10 before committing to sending an email and take out any snide comments or hyperbole that don’t help my case. I hadn’t paused to consider it from my supervisor’s point of view before and it won’t help my case if we both sound immature and aggressive. So, thanks, AAM managers who’ve written in.

    1. ferrina*

      This is amazing. I’m really impressed that you’ve realized this and that you’re taking these actions! And it will make you so much more effective in getting what you need done.

      I do find your name highly ironic, seeing as your post is about facing an issue (instead of running away) :) I wish you all the success and determination of the Luggage.

  48. OyHiOh*

    What would you do in this scenario? All organizations involved are structured as non profits, and we work in an industry that people, myself included, tend to fall into more or less by accident.

    My boss is starting to plan his exit/retirement from our organization. While we will run a competitive job search for his role (executive director) when he’s ready to announce, there are a handful of people (couple internal, couple external) who, at the theory stage of things, seem like strong potential candidates. Most of these people are people I know or know of, and I think most would be excellent in the ED role.

    Except for 1. The guy, let’s call him Chad, is young but not exactly inexperienced. Chad runs an office of 1.5 (himself plus a part timer) and his office loosely reports to the local Small Business Development Center (SBDC). He works in the same office suite I/my organization work out of so we all know each other pretty well. His office does things that are an expansion of what my organization can/should develop into so Chad has good background for the role. When my ED mentioned that he thought Chad would make a good next ED to our org, I said Chad was the only one of the handful of names that would inspire me to walk out as fast as possible. I’m already lightly job searching for other reasons, but Chad coming in as ED would have me stepping up urgency considerably.

    My ED asked if Chad’s age is an issue for me. No, it’s not. The problem is that Chad doesn’t have *staff.* He has one part time employee who works 15 hours a week for him, and the rest of the time works for the SBDC office downstairs that Chad also reports to/collaborates with. My organization, while still tiny, has a staff of seven full time subject matter experts (in a range of fields and industries, we cover a lot of ground), plus a couple .75 FTE admins (my current role), plus outside contractors. My reason for leaving, in this purely hypothetical scenario, is that I do not want to be a part of Chad’s first attempt to manage staff, without HR or a higher level of management to appeal to in the inevitable case where something goes wrong.

    1. Scott*

      From what I read in your comment it does not sound like you have any evidence that Chad will have significant problems as a manager, you are just assuming he will because he will be new to having a larger staff. Basing your judgment of him on an assumption seems unfair to me. Besides, think how helpful you can be to him by managing up and giving him good constructive feedback.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        I don’t think it’s odd to have qualms about an ED who has never managed. One part-timer who works 15 hrs/week, to me, doesn’t really count as management experience because it sounds like there’s literally no one else there. So if he were a terrible manager, the only way to know would be from his single part-timer. Sure, he might turn out to be a good manager on the first try having multiple full time reports. But then he’s a unicorn. Sounds like OP’s take is “he doesn’t have enough experience” and I think that’s a fair assessment.

        1. Scott*

          But to be ready to leave your job because someone was promoted to manager and you don’t think they have enough experience to do the job seem awfully short-sighted. I get that maybe the person won’t be a good manager, but without evidence how can you decide you’ll never work for them?

    2. Hlao-roo*

      I have worked for two new managers in my career. One went from being an individual contributor to managing a team of 5 and the other from being an individual contributor to managing a team of 10. I thought both were good managers, roughly on par with other managers I’ve had who have had many years of experience managing people. So I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss Chad right off the bat.

      Two things I would look out for:
      1) Does your org have good training and support for managers? Both of my new managers were good because the companies had good management training and they had good managers above them who were actively coaching and developing them in the management role.
      2) Does Chad realize that managing seven people is a big step up from managing one part time person? I’d be a lot more wary if Chad had an “I know how to manage people” attitude than if he had an “I want to learn and grow into this higher-level management role” attitude.

      1. anonnie*

        That’s the thing, there would be no one above him to coach him. The ED is at the top of the org. He doesn’t sound qualified to run an organization.

    3. Anon for this*

      If you are structured as a 501c3 (or similar) nonprofit and Chad’s experience is working for the SBDC and managing a half a person, then I strongly suspect he has none of the necessary experience to run an actual nonprofit. The jump from .5 FTE to a team of 7 is a huge jump, but would he also be responsible for compliance, audit, fundraising, budgeting, etc on top of managing the team? Even if he’s supervising contractors or outsourced support to do those functions, he still needs to be intimately familiar with how they work in order to manage the entire org effectively.

  49. My heart is a fish*

    How do you tell the difference between imposter syndrome and the gradual realization that you may have been promoted past your capabilities? It seems like all the advice out there is you cannot believe your own self-assessment, and until you get told you’re doing badly, you should assume you’re fine. However, we also see lots of managers on here who don’t communicate problems to their reports, or who do so in such a vague way that the concerns don’t come across.

    So if our own assessments of our performance are unreliable, and management’s assessments are also unreliable — what is reliable? I look at my work and see all the places I could (should?) be doing it better, and then I get told I’m being hypercritical of myself and I’m fine. How can we say, hey, I don’t think I’m doing a good job actually, and be taken seriously on it? The more I hear about ‘imposter syndrome’ the more I feel as though my legitimate concerns are just being handwaved.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      There are managers who don’t communicate problems to reports, but I don’t see any reason to assume yours falls into that category. Can you bring your specific concerns about your performance to them and see what they say? Example: Here’s how I handled X task/situation. Was that the right way to handle it? Are there other things I could have done to get a better outcome?

      Because you wrote “promoted past your capabilities” I assume you’re relatively new in your role. Have you had a big picture discussion with your manager about where they expect you to be performing relative to your time in the role? Some places do 30-60-90 day plans where they lay out “have X skill at day 30, have X and Y skill at day 60, etc.” Depending on the role, you may need to look at a longer time frame (3 months-6 months-12 months?).

    2. Taxidermybobcat*

      Knowing you have a knowledge gap/learning curve isn’t imposter syndrome. Feeling stressed or overwhelmed by something new also isn’t imposter syndrome. I’ve been promoted several times into positions I didn’t have prior experience with, and I have developed a habit of telling myself “this is going to be hard/stressful for the next 6 months while I get up to speed, but then it will level out.” I’m confident that I can learn how to do new things. I’m also aware of where I don’t have the knowledge or experience required to succeed in a role, so I focus on learning those things. I’m like a sponge for the first several months. Something that really helps is having a manager who acknowledges that there’s a steep learning curve and that you’re going to make some missteps as you learn the ropes, and that’s ok. When new people come on my team, I tell them I’m ultimately responsible during the training period, and that the best way to learn is by doing. So I’m going to throw them into the thick of it, but I’m their safety net. I’m here to support them, and I anticipate they’re not going to get everything right immediately.
      I would use Hlao-roo’s recommendations and also ask, do you feel like you’re getting the support, tools, training you need from your manager to excel in your job? If not, are there some online courses you can take, or books you can read, to help narrow the skills gap? If you self-identify an area where you’d like to grow your skill in the job, your manager may be willing to help find funds to cover it. Did your manager provide KPIs that you can use to measure whether or not you’re performing the job well? If none of those things are happening and that’s what is causing you stress, it sounds more like bad management than imposter syndrome.

  50. Ashe*

    My coworker overreacts and I think it’s starting to impact my reputation.

    I started a new job during the time when most companies were WFH. My company was very conservative about Covid risk, so we only just came back to the office in February after a vaccine mandate was put in place.

    Since then I’ve learned that a coworker, let’s call him Rick, loudly overreacts to minor issues. I knew Rick was very reactive from our Zoom calls, but I had no idea the extent to which they called up our boss to throw people under the bus. He has thrown me under the bus once before, claiming he didn’t teach me to do a report the way he absolutely did, but I chalked it up to an honest mistake in memory.

    However Rick so often overreacts, while ignoring context, loudly for all to hear that I believe it’s starting to negatively impact my reputation with surrounding teams. Specifically I’ve noticed team members who sit on our side of the building have started to treat me with kid gloves, like they can’t trust my work since returning. Nothings changed with my work quality for these folks, in fact I’ve never made a mistake on some of these peoples reports in the 2 years I’ve been doing it.

    An example of an overreaction is: I emailed Rick a report to review that I had never done before and had no training on. I explicitly stated in the email, please pay close attention to section 2 as I’m not confident I did that part right. I could see the instructions being interpreted to mean X or Y but I went with X. Let me know if I should adjust. (I’ll also add that I asked to look at this together but he said he didn’t have time and to email him). A few hour later Rick yelled, “Oh my god you’ve done this report completely wrong! I don’t even know where you got these figures!?” I was a bit freaked out thinking I had totally got the report completely wrong, so I dragged my chair over there and wouldn’t you know, the only problem with the report was that section 2 needed the Y method.

    He’s not like this with our other coworkers who have been there longer, so I honestly think he doesn’t trust new people’s work much because he also did this to another new coworker before he was fired (for making mistakes and bad attitude receiving feedback).

    I’ve started to defend myself when this comes up in group settings. If Rick says “Ashe messed this up we have idea how she did this” I’ll speak up and say actually Allen specifically had me make that change. And as I explained in our prior meeting, the new instance of it was due to (details system glitch for the 3rd time). ”

    I worry however that I’m coming across as defensive. Does anyone have suggestions for how to approach this? Note that changing Rick is not on the table. I was warned about Ricks behavior when I was hired and he’s been here forever. His behavior is clearly tolerated

    1. Wonderer*

      Have you tried talking directly to him about it? He may still feel like you’re ‘new’, due to lots of WFH and the Covid TimeWarp. Maybe if you point out that he’s doing this, he’ll recognize it and tone it down?

      You may need to start interrupting him when he get going on one of these rants. Defending yourself isn’t necessarily “being defensive”; it’s more about your tone. Stay factual, and I’d suggest pointing out his overreaction directly each time.
      For example: “Why are you freaking out? It’s the exact point that I made to you in my email, after you refused to help me with it ahead of time. I asked if this specific thing needed to be changed, so you could have just responded to my email by saying “yes”. Is there a reason that you’re shouting about it?”

      1. Elle*

        I did this and so far it’s worked. I was on a project with a woman who has been in the role for 20+ years and she openly hated everyone else’s work. She’s an exhausting person to be around and the supervisors did nothing. I worked up the courage and confronted her. She actually apologized and there hasn’t been an incident since. I gave specific examples and let her know how it affected the rest of us.

  51. Sotired*

    This is happening to a friend. Her office is trying to come up with reasonable hybrid return to office rules. About 1/3 of the people are non-union and 2/3 union. The union is basically saying we will not agree to a renegotiation of the contract, so the non-union people are now stuck with the pre-pandemic policy. Meanwhile the non-union people will have more options to choose from (including not living in the area and working FT remote). The union leaders think the Executive Director will back down, and my friend says he will not. She is in agony about how her group will handle this. She doubts anyone will quit, most have been here a while and have good benefits.

    1. Internist*

      That is a bummer. Having been in a union myself though, I do think part of it is taking the bad along with the good. Unions do great things, but it’s inevitable that not everyone will be happy with every decision. The union may have good reason for not wanting to renegotiate their contract–that would be a time-consuming and expensive process and if they’re asking for more benefits (like hybrid work) for their members, then management may ask for concessions in return. I’d say your friend should probably look around at similar non-union jobs and see if what they are getting from the union is worth the tradeoff. They probably have the option of becoming a rep themselves and advocating for different priorities from within.

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Are the union and non-union workers doing essentially the same work? IME, when there is a divide between union vs. non-union workers it’s that the jobs are different, and so the difference in policies make sense. But if they are doing the same work, but some get to WFH and and some don’t, then the unionized workers will need to work within their union leadership to change the inequity. I’m not sure how the union leaders expect the ED to “back down”… you mean make everyone return to the office instead of giving new remote options to the non-union workers? The union leaders aren’t going to make themselves popular with their own people on that one.

    3. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      The thing a reasonable union would do is create a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with clear start/end dates if they want to put some different temporary rules in place for now without rebargaining the entire contract.

      Of course, that assumes that both the employer and the union see reasons why pre-pandemic defaults aren’t ideal here, but I’d be surprised if the union didn’t want better, more flexible working conditions for their members too, probably along with a series of both related and unrelated perks from the ongoing wishlist they try to get added each time contract bargaining happens.

      If your friend is a union member and wants something like a hybrid work MOU to happen, she should make sure her union rep/steward/whatever knows that., and perhaps even offer to work on the MOU bargaining team if appropriate. The more the members push the leadership to do a thing, the more likely union leadership is to do that thing.

  52. Laney Boggs*

    I just took a 40 minute “Wonscore” screening, befoee even speaking to anyone from the company. I almost gave up 4 times and emailed excusing myself.

    There were 50qs /12 min timed “acuity” section where I had to do math and logic questions (for an editor position)

    58 “would you rather” where you rank 3 totally related jobs like “Driving an ambulance”; “sorting files”; and “writing plays”

    And 150ish “I am easily upset by criticism: agree, disagree, neither agree nor disagree”

    This is mostly a vent post, but anyone else take it and feel like they…. got anything out of it at all?

    1. Laney Boggs*

      Or: anyone from a hiring standpoint use it and find that it has any actual bearing on the employee? During pt 2 I gave up around question 40 and just started clicking

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think these kinds of things exist because there are companies that have no idea how to hire.

      So they outsource the decision making to an external “objective” measurement, so they don’t have to think about it (and they have someone else to blame in the event of complaints about discrimination, nepotism, favoritism, etc.).

      1. Me!*

        Yep, and there’s a whole industry around selling these gimmicks to employers. I will back out of applications that ask me to do this and cut my losses; it has never made a difference and almost never has anything to do with the job.

        1. Laney Boggs*

          I think that’s what I’ll do next time. Some morbid curiosity kept me going

    3. Ashe*

      My spouse had to do something like that to be the assisant per sitter (eg pee and poop patrol) at petco.

      SAT style math questions and a huge loaded personality/work ethic section.

      1. Laney Boggs*

        They just contacted me for an actual (zoom) interview and I just want to say “no, never mind” lol. Really soured me on it.

    5. Cj*

      I just took this couple weeks ago. I think I only got through 29 of the 50 questions. Ive been wondering if there’s a way to find out how other people did.

      For the would you rather be questions, I just answered honestly, I didn’t put any thought into what the company might be looking for.

  53. Amber Rose*

    Small rant: hazardous waste removal is extremely annoying to arrange. Why is this AH arguing with me about whether I actually have hazardous waste? It’s literally made of lead. :|

    Gonna write him a chapter in Harry Potter and the Audacity of This B*tch. >:[

    1. Generic Name*

      Well, hazardous waste has a very specific definition and is subject to tracking and disposal requirements. If it’s not “hazardous” or it’s not considered a “waste” getting rid of it is much cheaper and easier.

      1. Amber Rose*

        It is hazardous waste. It’s made of lead, and I have the TCLP analysis showing that it’s over allowable limits for general waste.

        Our previous disposal company has gone out of business and we contacted this one dude who does our other waste disposal stuff but he’s trying to argue that it’s not actually hazardous once used and he’s just being SO RUDE about it.

        1. Generic Name*

          Yikes. I wouldn’t trust that guy to dispose of it properly then. Hopefully you can find someone else who will deal with it properly.

        2. Marshbilly, not Hillbilly*

          I used to get this a lot from one of our vendors that does waste hauling, even after I had pointed out the EPA waste codes (it is P-listed, dude!), the crazy disposal requirements, etc. I think it was a form of mansplaining (I’m a short, young-sounding female), and he finally got it once we fired his company.

          I would be willing to bet that this is the company with a misspelling of the word “clean” in their name, isn’t it? They handle some of our sites in a west coast state and they are DREADFUL.

        3. Eff Walsingham*

          A dude was ridiculously rude to me over asbestos once. He was sent to rip up an old floor and install some linoleum, and he took one look and went off the deep end. “That size and shape of tiles are ALWAYS asbestos!” (Are they? Who knew? I didn’t. The house was about 80 years old.) “ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME AND MY WIFE AND KIDS!?”

          So I told him, “The person you want to take that up with is your boss, who came here in person to approve the job and quote it!” And basically to leave my property if he was resolved against doing any work. He didn’t come back, they didn’t send anyone else, and my uncle came over, pulled up the suspicious tiles, and disposed of them in some manner. I still have no clue what they were made of. If the gentleman had respectfully suggested that we needed to call someone and get some kind of analysis done, things might well have gone differently. But he didn’t make any constructive suggestions, just accused me of intending to harm his family.

    2. Lady_Lessa*

      If you have the time, just send him an SDS of the product, and ask sweetly “I just want to make sure that this is hazardous”. If you are Southern, the accent makes it even better.

  54. Fail*

    Anyone have tips on how to do annual self-evaluations if you feel like you’re horrible at your job?

    My review at the end of my 3-month probation period was “good work” and “still learning” type comments. (I’m actually still learning new tasks because I’m taking over some of my boss’s responsibilities as she gets more work piled on her.) But, since then, the only feedback I’ve gotten is when my boss tells me if I make any sort of mistake or that I need more in-depth training (she seems to leave a lot of details out of initial trainings, which I find very frustrating).

    I’ve never had bosses who showered me with praise before and I don’t expect it (I think the only positive feedback I’ve ever gotten was bosses passing along that other employees said nice things about me). But I’ve never gotten this much negative feedback before either. I’ve always just been good at my jobs after I learned whatever I needed to learn.

    Whenever I feel like I’m doing well and getting a lot done, I’ll get an e-mail that says something like, “You missed a mistake someone made when entering USA Company’s most recent teapot purchase. You need to fix it and redo all the sales reports you spent the afternoon working on.” And then I just feel like crap.

    If I could leave for another job I would, but I’m stuck at this one right now. How do I write a self-evaluation when it feels like I’m a bad fit? (Or any advice on writing a self-evaluation at all? I’ve never had to do one before.)

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      So far, you’re only keeping a mental tally of your mistakes, not your successes. And it sounds like the nature of the job is such that you can’t score better than 100%.

      So how many sales reports did you do in the last month that **didn’t** have any problems? 50? So you’ve got a 98% success rate. That’s pretty good, isn’t it?

    2. Hlao-roo*

      I agree with Alton Brown’s Evil Twin. Focus on what you did, not what you didn’t do. Focus on successes, not failures.

      “learned how to handle x and y types of accounts”

      “wrote 500 sales reports so far in 2022”

      Going forward, writing a self-evaluation is easier when you track your successes throughout the year. You can record completed tasks in Outlook, keep a word file on your computer, write accomplishments by hand in a paper notebook, whatever system works for you. It’s much, much easier to look at your notes and see “Feb 2022: completed purchase of equipment for Jones Account” than it is to sit and wonder “did I do anything useful this year?”

    3. metadata minion*

      How long has it been since your probationary period? If you’re still around or below the year mark, I’d focus a lot on what you’ve learned. It’s almost certainly very reasonable for you to still be learning and improving, especially if this position has involved a lot of new skills/procedures for you.

      Going forward, I highly recommend keeping a running list of accomplishments for your next self-evaluation. And “accomplishments” don’t have to be anything spectacular, especially if your work is more maintenance-based than big-project. If I don’t write stuff down I inevitably forget some major aspect of my job just because it hasn’t come up the week I’m writing the self-evaluation. :-b

  55. Anonymouse*

    I moved from a different role into my present role last August (same company for both roles). The team I am on is all people in the same role but each of us work with a different product, so I work more closely with the other roles associated with my product than I do with other people in my role. I don’t actually know my team members in my role very well; my team is spread out across the country so I’ve never met any of them in person, I just know them through meetings on Teams.

    We just got notification from our supervisor that a team member passed away last night (everyone was aware that team member had a history of cancer and was currently in the hospital).

    I’m obviously sympathetic to her family and those who were close to her but even though she was on my team I barely knew her. I feel guilty because I didn’t know her and I’m not really impacted on an emotional level by her passing. Saying “I’m sorry for your loss” to those who were close to her feels trite…I just feel like I don’t know how I should be responding.

    1. fueled by coffee*

      You don’t need to feel guilty — you didn’t really know this team member, so of course you aren’t reacting the same way you would to a friend or even a close acquaintance passing.

      The reason we have stock phrases like “I’m sorry for your loss” is so that you can have something to say in cases exactly like this. Nothing you can say is going to make the situation better for those close to her who are grieving. “I’m sorry for your loss” acknowledges exactly that — you’re very sorry that this team member passed, and for the effects that the loss will have on those close to her.

  56. Paris Geller*

    Low-stakes question: what do you do for lunch? Particularly if you have an hour lunch?
    I have an hour for lunch everyday. I almost always leave and get buy lunch. It’s not the healthiest (most of the options near me are fast food) and I would love to save money, but I’ve also brought my lunch before and I don’t really enjoy eating in the break room. I like leaving the building. An hour is also a long time, but I feel I spend most of the time just scrolling on my phone. Sometimes I take a book and read or go to one of the local thrift stores near my work (thrifting is a hobby), and I always feel better when I do something I actually enjoy, but sometimes it’s hard to get the motivation when it’s easier to just watch TikTok mindlessly for half an hour.

    1. Gracely*

      I usually bring my food and eat at my desk. Sometimes I read AAM or a book while I eat, sometimes I work through part of my lunch so I can leave early. I never eat in the break room because it’s depressing. I’m on a campus, so if it’s nice, I do have the option of eating outside on a bench, but I rarely bother. Maybe once every couple of weeks I’ll go out to eat (used to be once a week, but I just don’t go out as much since Covid).

      1. Me!*

        This is what I used to do at my old job. Sometimes I’d go to lunch with a coworker, but mostly I just ate in my cube.

    2. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      I’ve had this problem too, especially when I went from a job that had 30 minutes to my current job that is 1 hour.
      Lately a bunch of us will just talk in our break area. But if that doesn’t sound like your thing.

      I’ve gone on walks around campus and during the summer and fall months I like to sit in this one spot and just enjoy the nice weather. Books, music, or podcasts are nice.

      As far as food look on Pinterest for different ideas. There are so many work lunch ideas. In fact even if I have to warm something up I still go and sit outside sometimes.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      When in the office I typically eat lunch at my desk and then take my lunch hour to go for a walk! It’s really great to get out of the office and get some fresh air, plus it really helps break my day up.

      1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

        Yep this is what I did when I worked in the office. It was on a very nice trail and would walk and listen to podcasts.

    4. VV*

      I haven’t had this in a while, but my best habits were always when I would take 20 minutes to eat (either at my desk or outside depending on what I packed) and then spend the rest of the hour walking around or reading outside. At another job I would eat in another building with a work friend but that turned into negative complaining sessions quickly, so unless I had a different kind of rapport with someone going forward I wouldn’t go back to that.

      relatedly, I’ve always packed lunch (most of the time), but I genuinely dislike doing it. It takes up my morning and I’m very picky about the kind of packed food I can tolerate for more than a day or two at a time, lol. I have always told myself that the next time both schedule and budget allow I will let myself start buying lunch.

    5. AdequateArchaeologist*

      At my old job I would typically take a book and read while I ate lunch outside. My current office doesn’t have a nice sitting spot yet and my commute is longer, so I usually do a relaxed working lunch. Ex. if I know I’m going to have to download a ton of large files, I’ll save that for lunch and do it while I’m eating. If I need to totally unplug I’ll go sit in our conference room or an empty office

    6. RagingADHD*

      When I was office-based I mostly brought my lunch and would go eat outside if weather permitted, or take it with me while I ran errands. If neither was feasible, I’d put up an “At Lunch” sign on my cubicle and eat at my desk while reading.

    7. kiki*

      When I go into the office, I take long walks and listen to audiobooks. I usually pack something that doesn’t need to be heated and have a little picnic in a park. I feel like a little movement and fresh air helps me go back to the office refreshed after lunch.

    8. Admin of Sys*

      I would bring in food that doesn’t require heating up to eat, and then find a place away from the office to go eat, at least during nicer weather months. A park or even just somewhere with a bench that’s outside and away from things. During less good weather, I used to eat quickly, then walk the maze of buildings while listening to podcasts. Or back when we had a few offices and a warehouse, I’d head to the nearest mall and walk there.

    9. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      When I had an enforced hour lunch (and no office or break room) I would take a nap in my car or take my car through a nearby carwash once a week or so, just to kill some time.

    10. Jigsaw*

      We have puzzles in our office (apparently the CEO doesn’t like them, but I think he has lost that battle). Most departments have a table with a puzzle on it and people like to work on them during their breaks and chat. I like to eat my lunch at my desk and then spend the rest of my lunch working on the puzzle.

  57. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

    Looking for some freelance type work that I could do on the side. Anything I should be aware of or watch out for if looking for freelance work on Upwork. I would like to find some side work as an editor, copy writer, or proofreader.

    I currently am an administrative assistant but I do a lot of different tasks, including in the past updating my department’s brochures. I do web editing and have even created a front office manual and SOP documents.

    I’ve got my B.S. in English with a writing emphasis. I have some things I have done for work but not much that I could show as part of a portfolio since many are internal documents with confidential info

    1. RagingADHD*

      Just generally on Upwork, there is a race to the bottom on rates and lots of unreasonable clients. If you can start there and then parlay it into word-of-mouth recommendations you will get better clients and better rates. Reedsy tends to have better rates, but also lots of well-established pros. Might be a good place to at least check out and see how to position yourself.

      If you can get connected with the indie fiction community (preferably the very business-minded kind who are selling well rather than the aspirational kind) there is a lot of demand for proofing and copyediting.

    2. Generic Name*

      If you are an expert in formatting Word documents, the going rate for such work on upwork is around $75/hr, last I checked.

      1. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

        Do you know what that would be called? Sounds interesting and if its anything like I’ve done before I think it would be something I could work on.

    3. Hola Playa*

      Virtual assistant work is huge and in demand, with so many online groups and businesses that can give you info on how to niche and find clients.

      If you like podcasts and this sounds interesting maybe listen to How She Did That by Tasha Booth.

  58. Karen's on the Edge*

    Topic: Boss has a temper tantrum and leaves their team at the restaurant.

    For the past 2 months we had two days set aside for a planning retreat for the upcoming fiscal year (July 1). Since then a team member, who was doing many jobs, left. We spent the last month transitioning her work to the remaining four of us and it was a great transition EXCEPT for our boss (Department Director). Boss realized how much Departing Team Member was doing and that the Boss now needed to do most of those tasks (logical for her position) as we received quite a bit of work from department member to bridge the gap.

    Our Boss didn’t plan the retreat well and there were logistics issues. We had a list of topics, but not an agenda. She had no clear command of the event. Clearly the Departing Team Member was integral to last year’s retreat success. By the end of the 1st day we all had friction with our Boss regarding some topic or another. The 2nd day was worse; by 2 p.m. our Boss was packing up in front of us.

    Boss: ‘You’re all on the edge!”
    Boss, leaning to me, “You’re really on the edge. You do know that.”
    Me, ‘Edge of what? What does that mean?”
    Boss: “Oh you know what that means. You’re on the edge.”
    Me: “It’s not ok to talk to me like that. We’re not your children.”
    Boss: ‘You’re all acting like children!”
    Co-worker, “Well thank you for lunch.”
    Boss: “That’s the last time. I’m never going to do that again!”

    Then she left. The three of us sat there wondering what the heck happened. I learned that a coworker has been verbally abused by the Boss before. Neither the other coworker or the Departing Team Member have been. I’ve been accosted by our Boss before. We stayed to work for 30-min; we refined the transition document for our Boss who we thought was overwhelmed with the transition and all her new tasks.

    The next day it was as if nothing happened. The Boss was doing her thing and two of us (another coworker was on PTO) did our thing.

    I documented the event.

    AND my first performance report review is on June 6. In 20 years of non-profit, I’ve rarely had a performance review. I’ve also rarely trusted those giving the review so I never gave credence to their feedback. I see this being the same again. I would never choose any of my previous bosses as a mentor or role model.

  59. Rose*

    I recently got a resume from someone who, on paper, seems perfect for the role we are trying to fill. However…my colleague looked at their social media, and their politics (super conservative/right wing) and beliefs about the pandemic (it isn’t a big deal, mandates are BS, etc). This is very much at odds with everyone else at our (small) company. Is this enough of a reason to not interview him, even if his resume is far above all the others we have gotten?

    1. irene adler*

      No it is not. Why not interview him and ask about how he conducts himself in a professional environment where there may be many differing opinions on current events, politics, beliefs? Some people are able to keep it professional and you’d never know by working with them what their leanings or beliefs are.

      1. A Simple Narwhal*

        This is good advice, but I’d also share your office’s covid policy with him and see his reaction to that. Oh and definitely share that policy ahead of time if it requires action/effort on his part (proof of vaccination, wearing a mask in common areas, etc). He may self-select out if he’s truly against it, or maybe he’ll at least show that he can comply with policy even if he doesn’t believe in it himself.

    2. Chilipepper Attitude*

      I think it is enough to decide not to interview him. Nothing you mentioned is protected.

      But if you do interview him, be sure to give him enough information that he can select himself out if he wants. Tell him the COVID requirements you set up at work, maybe any activities or fundraising that reflect the office culture/values. That way he can see what the workplace would be like. He might not want to work there.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Do your company and this position have anything to do with politics, public health, or PR?

      If not, then I think you should give this person the benefit of the doubt, at least until you’re able to judge their demeanor during an interview. For a lot of people, social media posts like that are just reflexive “yay team” things; you and your coworkers are not the intended audience.

      1. Rose*

        My company does not do anything with politics, health, etc., but we are particular about the clients we take on, and will not work with any organization that goes against our values – for instance, we would never do work for a tobacco company, the NRA, Fox News, big oil…even WalMart/Amazon we would have to think long and hard about. We are also a small, very tight knit company that does tend to share (and openly discuss) the same liberal values (like this week, not surprisingly, there has been a LOT of discussion about gun control…last week it was abortion). So in addition to me just not agreeing with his politics (which in many places – and without social media – would never come to light), I just wonder if he would be a good fit.

        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          I’d encourage you to check out Alison’s archives. There was a letter a few years back with a similar situation as yours that was an important cautionary tale about a culture that requires everybody to be in lockstep about everything, and a business where people spend a lot of time discussing non-work topics.

        2. The New Wanderer*

          If your values are clearly posted on your company site, where applicants can see them, then I think it’s fair game to offer an interview and address those values during the interview. If he can support the company values, even if he doesn’t share them, then he might still be the most qualified.

          However, the second piece – small, tight knit company with similarly minded employees – is potentially problematic, because that aspect doesn’t sound relevant to the job and is an artifact of the usual type of person the company attracts. Any of the letters about a bad culture fit are good reading, since some are more about exposing a culture problem. If you screen out everyone who potentially disagrees, you’ll end up with very little diversity of thought.

    4. RagingADHD*

      He may wind up not being a good fit, but if the lack of fit is political, he is just as likely to opt out. If it’s a really good resume, I don’t think any of that is egregious enough to eliminate him right off the bat.

      Plenty of people hold similar opinions but will follow requirements when asked to and can be pleasant, collegial coworkers. I live in an area where a lot of people considered mandates to be BS, but most folks still complied with them, and a large percent kept wearing masks and distancing long after the mandates were dropped, because they didn’t want to be jerks about it.

      1. Becky*

        If it’s a really good resume, I don’t think any of that is egregious enough to eliminate him right off the bat.
        That really really depends on what “super conservative/right wing” kind of stuff he’s posting about. Most of what used to be considered mainstream conservatism is now left of where many of the talking points are. If he’s parroting great replacement crap that is regularly on Fox News, that is pretty egregious. If he believes or follows the repulsive conspiracy that claims Sandy Hook was fake, that’s pretty egregious too. Frankly, I would also question if I wanted someone on staff who believes that the 2020 election was stolen.

        I don’t know what kind of stuff he has been posting about but there are many super conservative kinds of things that are egregious all on their own.

        1. RagingADHD*

          Nothing mentioned in the question was egregious. Of course there are other things that *might* be?

          If he were posting other stuff that was obviously offensive, racist, or endorsing violence, then the OP was really burying the lede here.

      1. Rose*

        99% sure. Name is not particularly common, and he has his city, university, former companies, etc listed on his Facebook page.

    6. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      No, I don’t think so. Unless it’s germane to the work, someone else’s politics are a not-your-business zone. And you are in danger of making your workplace a clique if you require everyone to have the same opinions. You can enforce workplace policies like masks same as a dress code, rather than how someone votes.

      1. Parakeet*

        I understand the point about germaneness – though I’m not sure I agree for a company that uses politics to filter clients – but what an odd idea that not wanting “super-conservative” (possibly far-right) politics in your workplace is requiring everyone to have the same opinions (or for that matter, is about how someone votes).

    7. Sleepless in Cincinnati*

      Here’s the way I see it: you have a candidate that you know smears feces on the wall of his own home. You don’t know if he’s going to smear feces on the walls at work – he might be a professional in the workplace. So why not give him a shot, right?

      The fact of that matter is, there are plenty of fish in the sea. There’s going to be another candidate who is just as good or close enough. There’s no need to risk adding someone to your organization who will worsen the quality of life. After all, you have to interact with this person.

    8. Irish Teacher*

      I’m no expert, but I would think his political beliefs should rarely be relevant but his views on the pandemic might be as it indicates he might be willing to put other people’s health at risk by ignoring health advice. I would also add that if any of what is meant by “right wing” includes racism or sexism or homophobia, that would be a good reason not to interview him as there is a risk of him treating coworkers or clients from certain demographics poorly.

      For me, the line would be are his political views just likely to annoy people or are they really likely to be harmful to people – doubting medical advice could be harmful, racist views certainly would be harmful, so I would consider it reasonable to take those views into account. On the other hand, things like wanting stricter drug laws or supporting the death penalty or believing the US should take a hawkish attitude to foreign policy or believing in lowering taxes rather than improving services might annoy people, but no more so than taking the opposite views would annoy somebody with his views and so long as he isn’t strident about them, I’d say they shouldn’t be relevant.

  60. b*

    Low stakes question. I recently moved to the UK and am not familiar with office culture at all. My husband got a new job and his current colleagues want to have a leaving do for him. I assumed this would be afterwork drinks or dinner at a nearby pub or bistro. He explained it was department only, which I completely understand. But instead his supervisor is having the department over to her home for a dinner party one evening. In my native country if a superior had a party at their home after hours, there was an expectation that spouses would be welcomed. I understand keeping something department only if the event occured at the place of work, during buisness hours or if it was a situation where the department/company was paying (drinks, dinner at a restaurant), but at social events (private party outside of working hours) spouses would normally be invited. Does anyone know if this is common in the UK?

    1. Cookies for Breakfast*

      I’d say not common that the party is at someone’s house in the first place. In my years of working in the UK, every single leaving do I’ve known about or been to involved going out for lunch, and / or having after work drinks at a pub or bar (as an immigrant, it never ceased to amuse me just how much people in the UK love their after work drinks).

      I’m not a fan of “manager and team members socialise as friends” situations, so if I supervised a team, I wouldn’t invite them to my house for a work social. Then again, I’m not sure what to read into the fact this supervisor did, sorry! I wondered whether your husband works for a very small company with a culture where that’s normal, or a very close-knit team? Even then, at least in my view, a party at the supervisor’s home wouldn’t be the most obvious choice.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I don’t know if it’s UK specific, but it is COVID times so it makes sense to want to keep it small.

    3. Cordelia*

      it’s not really a private party though, it’s still a work leaving do. I don’t think this is uncommon (I’m in the UK) but it probably depends on the field or company. Maybe the supervisor just doesn’t want to double the size of her dinner party by adding spouses she may not even have met (maybe she doesn’t have enough chairs!)
      I dont’ think there is necessarily such a thing as “office culture” in the UK, it would depend on the office

    4. London Calling*

      I have worked in the UK for 45 years. I have never been to a leaving do at a manager’s house, ever. It’s always been an office lunch for the department and/or the pub after work.

      1. b*

        This is what I was expecting! I know it is a very nice intention, but having it at her house in the middle of the work week feels like an inconvenience (in terms of needing to travel there from work, sit through an entire dinner, travelling and getting home late).

      2. Cordelia*

        whereas I have actually had a previous manager hold my leaving do at her house, and it was great! And no, spouses weren’t invited. So I think it just depends on the culture of that specific team. It’s not that uncommon in my field.

    5. Irish Teacher*

      I’m Irish, so UK norms may or may not be similar, but I have never been to a staff party where spouses were invited. Now, nor have I ever been to a party at a colleague’s house, so that may make a difference too.

  61. fas_manager*

    My boss asked to meet with me next week to discuss my recent increase in responsibilities and “how to best compensate” me. I just got a 10% raise a couple months ago. How do I come up with a number or negotiating strategy?

    My biggest issue is that I am in a niche field (management for fine art services/moving and installing art) in a weird location (ie not NYC) and there aren’t really many comparable roles on glassdoor or similar to create a number from. My title, Director of Services, is really generic and salaries range wildly depending on whether the position is in medicine, hospitality, etc., so that doesn’t help much either.

    Any suggestions on how to approach this? I feel lucky to already be reasonably paid AND be offered another opportunity for a raise, but it’s also throwing me a bit!

      1. fas_manager*

        Very good call. Just did some quick research on that and I’m both terrified and motivated to make this a significant increase! Thanks!

    2. JelloStapler*

      Any openings?
      -person who’s job hasn’t kept up with inflation even when it was 2%

  62. Gracely*

    Just a rant–I just had a meeting cancelled at the last minute for the second time. The person organizing the meeting has been trying to get people together since February, and both times, the organizer cancelled less than an hour before the meeting was supposed to start, for “personal reasons”.

    I just want this damn meeting over so I can focus on other things. I already had to do three different doodle polls, and when those didn’t work, create a whole separate calendar with my availability over two entire months for this damn meeting. Like, show the f up/plan better for the meeting YOU scheduled. I carved a hole into my fucking FRIDAY BEFORE MEMORIAL DAY, a day I WANTED TO TAKE OFF BUT DIDN’T BECAUSE YOU SAID THIS WAS THE DAY/TIME WE HAD TO MEET.

    Argh. This week has just been…argh.

    1. WellRed*

      I’d say something about this. Politely and matter of factory. It’s obviously not an important meeting.

    2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Or offer to have the meeting anyway … use the time to get at least part of the way through with whatever the agenda was, and let the organizer get caught up later.

  63. Chilipepper Attitude*

    I’m on a hiring team. It is my first one with this employer and here we see all the applicants, not just the ones that pass through HR or something. That is how I learned that So. Very. Many. do not include cover letters!

    WHY!? For most on our team, following this basic requirement is, well, required. They are not wrong, being able to write is a big part of the job. I did look at all the resumes but no one else was willing to even look. And it was very difficult for me to imagine who you are and what kind of worker you would be, or colleague you would be, without a cover letter.

    Why don’t people write cover letters? Some were people totally unfamiliar with our profession. But most were already working in the field! Why would they leave it out (I even made sure that it was not the system they used to apply that stripped the cover letter)?

    Also, it was really clear that most had not researched our company AT ALL and they had not prepared interview questions.

    My PSA for the day: Do all the things they ask you to do for a job application! And research the company at least a little before your interview and prepare your own questions!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I rarely write cover letters. My last few jobs I haven’t. More and more I see applications that don’t even have space to upload an option one. Engineering field, norms vary obviously. But I hated the applications that required one. 90% of the time its unclear who to address it to, the information in it isn’t super useful (I’m so excited for this opportunity to apply to your company which I love because it farts rainbows. I have loved farting rainbows since I was a child and my skills at air fresheners will be useful in this job…) and is pretty fake.

      If writing is a huge part of it, writing tests and writing samples are a better assessment anyway. My tone in a cover letter is very very different than my tone when writing scientific journal articles. Casual email got represented anyway when setting up interview times, don’t need a cover letter for that.

      1. Chilipepper Attitude*

        My spouse is an engineer so I get the idea of different norms. But have you read anything Alison ever wrote here about cover letters? What you describe is not at all what I expect in a cover letter. And if you don’t have an individual name, you address it to the hiring team or don’t address it at all.

        We included a writing test. It is called a cover letter. Use it to show how your credentials match the job.

        And even engineers need to be able to write. My husband spends a significant amount of time teaching this!

      2. Two Chairs, One to Go*

        Same – I stopped writing cover letters. A recruiter in my field flat-out told me they won’t be read and that it pulls focus from a portfolio. No applications say they are required (but a portfolio is) and often there isn’t even a space to upload one.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      I think there are three main reasons people don’t write cover letters:

      1) As DisneyChannelThis says, a lot of application systems don’t have a place to include a cover letter (or if they do, it’s difficult to find or use).

      2) People write cover letters for the jobs they really want, but fire off just a resume for a “eh, maybe, looks good enough” job (even when the instructions explicitly say to include a cover letter).

      3) Either arrogance or avoidance. “I’m so great I don’t need to follow rules and write a cover letter” or “I hate writing cover letters/don’t know how to write a cover letter/all my cover letters are awful so I just won’t.”

      That said, because I read AAM and know that so many other people don’t write cover letters, I always write one if I see a way to submit it.

      1. Me!*

        Me too. I also save my resume and cover letter as one document, in case there’s nowhere to upload anything besides the resume or if the platform wants it at the beginning and I can’t tell.

        1. Chilipepper Attitude*

          I love my job and don’t expect to be leaving any time soon, but I will make the resume and cover letter one document if I ever have a next time applying!

    3. Hen in a Windstorm*

      Assuming you put this requirement in the job posting, be glad! This is a simple, quick way to screen out a ton of applicants. Why did you waste your time when no one else did? Now you’re aggravated by something you didn’t need to do.

      My husband has an interview today and spent 2 hours prepping yesterday, which was a review of stuff he already prepped over the weekend. No idea why people wouldn’t do that.

      1. Chilipepper Attitude*

        I’m not aggravated by looking at the resumes without cover letters. But I really feel for people who might have been qualified but failed to follow the directions. We did list a cover letter as a requirement.

        I mostly wanted to say, from the hiring side of the table, follow the directions!!

        I never realized how many don’t include them even when the application says it is required.

    4. Nanc*

      All of our jobs ask that you submit a cover letter with a resume (and as one document!). When I was passed the hiring coordinator hat the first thing I did was ask each department person submitting a posting to give me two or three things they absolutly wanted to see answered in a cover letter/resume/portfolio. When I post I list those and ask applicants to address it in their cover letter and emphasize it’s fine if they don’t have that skill/background/education to discuss what they do have that they feel translates. We receive fewer applications but overall they’re much stronger applicants and we are able to move the hiring process much faster.

      If a name/title isn’t given I don’t mind seeing a simple Hello or Dear NAME of COMPANY as your cover letter salutation. My PSA is make certain you put the title of the job in your cover letter because I’m screening for 10+ positions sometimes and my brain can’t always connect the dots!

    5. SofiaDeo*

      There are a number of people who will submit resumes, and go on interviews, in order to keep their Unemployment. They don’t want the job.

    6. Maggie*

      I don’t write cover letters because I’ve gotten all my jobs without them. If your ad states that’s required though, then that is weird that people don’t include one.

      1. Chilipepper Attitude*

        Yes, it says required and it is standard in the field to submit one.

  64. what would you do*

    A little bit of a vent.

    I work for a company that is big on giving back/ community service.

    Despite not being incharge of our little volunteer group, we have a “team” mate (Corey) who tries to take over every situation, conversation, action. It’s getting frustrating. It’s hard to reprimand when this is a volunteer aspect for our job. We the team, team leaders and higher ups (discretely) are working on getting everyone to stay in their lane.

    It’s fine when it’s just the group. But recently we had a meeting with a vendor who had a similar volunteer set up. We were looking to co host a joint fundraiser for a great cause. Corey took over the meeting. I mean literally every aspect. The other company or us could not get a word in edgewise. We were even messaging her on the side to give everyone a chance to speak. She made some of the conversations personal (talking about mutual aquaintances, movies and political issues that do not effect the cause). It was embarrassing. Our higher ups were silently listening in and were shocked seeing how Corey behaved themselves – Corey was not aware someone was listening in.

    While the higherups said they we help us deal with the Corey issue, myself and another coworker are team leads. We are trying to figure out how to work with this outside company. Higher ups have said the ball is in our courts on how to smooth things over. Higher ups realize, now, that we are doing all we can but Corey is not being a team player. We are thinking of sending an email to the vendor explaining the meeting was chaotic (not mentioning Corey), we hope to work with you, and team mate Jill will be the point person going forward.

    I’m venting but am so angry at Corey right now I can’t even think straight.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Don’t send an email.
      Call.

      “We’re really sorry the meeting went off the rails like that. We really do want to work with you. Our management is going make sure we don’t have a repeat of that.”

      2. Alice*

        Good language, but… IS management going to make sure there’s not a repeat?
        I can’t tell from your post who is actually in charge of the volunteer group — when Corey was derailing the meeting or now. My big question is, what has changed that is going to prevent a repeat?

        1. what would you do*

          We work in teams as far as volunteering. On my team we have a two team leads. Higher ups just oversee things in a very general overview and to help when we need advice. Myself and another teammate were elected team leads by the higher ups. Personal opinion Corey is upset she was not considered for team lead and is trying to prove herself. My co-team lead and I have gone to higher ups for advice with how to work with Corey, I just don’t think the higher ups realized how Corey was bulldozing situations. They have said they/ we will speak with her and discuss ways to move forward.

          As for what will change, I don’t know yet but something has to. I don’t think higher ups realized how crazy this situation is and now (and apologetically) will discuss with team leads how to deal with things. We’re set to have a meeting next week.

    2. PollyQ*

      If you’re a team lead, then you need to be MUCH more assertive about regaining control in meetings. You’ll need to say things like, “Corey, please let Rachel finish telling us about the requirements”, “Corey, let’s stick to the topic at hand” (when she talks about personal matters), and “Corey, I believe Jane is the best person to address that.”

      It’d be nice if the higher-ups would talk to Corey, and maybe that’ll help, but I’m dubious that there will be much change from that alone. I’m too lazy to google, but there have been similar questions on AAM, so you may find some help there as well.

      1. What the….*

        I totally agree with you. The team leaders and team in general have all said something. Corey “retaliates” by making things more difficult. For example if a teammate has a task to email someone, Corey will email as herself not the team, then the person in charge of said tasks emails and the team looks like an idiot sending numerous emails. When Corey is confronted she has a to. Of excuses for overstepping

  65. Justverysad*

    I am trying to move from the social services to virtually any other field. I have two degrees in CJ and work as an investigator for adult protective services. I really can’t stand my job anymore, I am treated unfairly and was recently set up in court to take the blame for higher ups who failed to do a job I have no control over. I am now being written up for unprofessional conduct because I was so stressed out I started sobbing in court. I feel that by going into the social services I have signed my self up for a lifetime of mistreatment and poor pay. I was told I was wrong to expect a living wage in this position (I have a master’s) and that the reality is I was and am treated poorly and unfairly but my reaction to it was bad and that is the bigger problem. Advice or tips to transfer fields.

    1. Chilipepper Attitude*

      Libraries sometimes hire social workers. It would still be social work but it might work as a transition?
      It is not a lot of libraries right now but there are some. And it would not involve court and would be very different working conditions. Better, I think.

      1. Justverysad*

        Smart idea! There are lots of alternative SW positions thought I am not an Licensed independent which some of those positions require. But good idea, I will for some unusual places that hire social workers.

        1. pancakes*

          The cancer center I went to for treatment and still go to for a shot every month has one (or at least one)to work with with patients who need help completing paperwork, etc. – I’ve seen the signage for it. They’re affiliated with a big local hospital somehow.

          I’m sorry to hear you’re being treated so badly, and I hope you find something better soon.

        2. JelloStapler*

          Look into higher education as well- advisor, coach, coordinator. I’m a MSW and work with students. In fact I let my LSW drop years ago.

    2. SJ (they/them)*

      I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I don’t have any useful advice but I am here and I hear you. You deserve respect, support and a living wage. I am sending good thoughts your way.

    3. Elle*

      I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It’s a really tough field. I can’t say you’ll be paid more but have you looked into the public health side of things? Your experience might translate really well into a non client role in public health education, outreach or program support.

    4. anonymous12345678*

      That sounds super stressful. Is there anyway you can take paid time off work to recharge/apply for other jobs? This way you are able to focus on the job search, less likely to get emotional by all the bs at work. Especially with the last 2 years, a lot of people have been resigning/deciding to do other work. Other fields include being a tutor from home, administrative work (in person or virtual), teaching, customer service, education.

      1. Justverysad*

        Funny you say that I actually tutor kids on the side, because I don’t make a living wage. I am debating if I should just take some time off, it seems crazy to me to leave a job with nothing lined up. I am 28 and have worked my whole adult life, usually multiple jobs. I don’t want to be viewed as a slacker because I took time off, but maybe that is what I need. Since my degree is in Criminal Justice and I have done financial investigation work I was looking to maybe transfer those skills and go into that instead, but I have had no bites until today surprisingly.

    5. Jigsaw*

      I’ve talked to some social workers that have made the switch over to project management. One said that managing everything for clients was very similar to managing a project, so the skills were very transferable.

      1. Justverysad*

        Interesting switch! I feel that SW skills are often very undervalued. I was thinking of this recently when my other friends were discussing their office jobs in other fields. I couldn’t help but think WOW, my job is so much harder and more technical. yet I get paid the least. I do literally everything as this is an investigative position. I think marketing myself is the issue.

    6. Policy Wonk*

      Look into working for the government in a CJ related agency that sets policy for the kind of work you are doing now. Your field experience will be valuable there.

  66. Lead Balloon*

    I’m wondering whether my employer uses ‘team leader’ in an atypical way, based on what I’ve read recently.
    Team leaders here have direct reports and deal with performance (including putting people on PIPs and annual performance reviews), make hiring decisions, and allocate clients.
    The next role down the hierarchy is Ops support lead. They assess quality of work, support the team to deliver work on deadline, train new team members, and do a certain amount of monthly reporting to management (team leads do some of that too).
    Both team leads and ops support leads deal with escalations (internal when team members need assistance to complete work and external from clients).
    Is the team leader role at my employer more like a role which would be called ‘manager’ elsewhere?

    1. Decidedly Me*

      In my experience, titles like that don’t really have consistent definitions between companies. I have seen your outline of a team leader be a manager, team lead, head of, etc. title.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think the Venn diagram of “team leader” “manager” “supervisor” etc. has a big overlap area. It depends a lot on industry, and sometimes these are just labels that were applied long ago in your company for some reason (good or bad) and have stuck around due to inertia.

      What does the hierarchy look like going *up* from team leader? You have to judge the titles in context to each other.

      If you’re worried about what to put on your resume, remember that other companies care about what you did, not what you’re called. If Amalgamated Llamatronics has job titles like “Milker 4” or “Senior Grooming Fellow”, nobody on the outside knows how to interpret those. So they ignore the title line on the resume and look at the responsibilities and accomplishments.

      1. Decidedly Me*

        Yup – responsibilities matter, not title. I’ve hired many people into a role they are very experienced in without them having that title anywhere in their history.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      In my org, your TL would be Manager and your Ops Support Lead would be a TL. Our TLs don’t have direct reports or HR responsibilities, that’s exclusive to managers.

    4. Eff Walsingham*

      If I were feeling cynical, I would say that my now-former company recently discovered the title of “Team Lead” and used it to keep employees who are doing half of their supervisor’s tasks from quitting even though they’re not going to promote them. No real authority, but responsible for getting the team to accomplish the departmental goals according to the supervisor’s wishes.

      A supervisor (not mine) told me he hadn’t figured out in 3 years what my actual job was. I said, “Did you see the movie DOGMA?” “Yes.” “Well, I’m Alan Rickman!”

  67. Single Noun*

    Well, after poking at the idea of grad school for a few months, I suddenly find myself rushing to apply by June 30th. (Part-time at the university I work at, so I’m not trying to choose a program, the question is just whether I get in or not.) Any and all advice welcome, but especially- what goes in a personal statement? Can I ask current/former bosses for reference letters since I don’t have academic references except my professors from undergrad 10 years ago?

    1. fueled by coffee*

      Is this a professional degree, or a research-based one?

      For either, your personal statement should say something about *why* you’re choosing to go to grad school (future career plans?) and why that particular program (even if it’s obvious to you that you already work at that university, you should still point out why that program will meet your needs — the availability of internship/lab rotation opportunities, faculty who focus on particular areas, etc.).

      If it’s research-focused, your personal statement should also include potential areas of study within the field (you don’t need to outline a specific project, but you should be able to talk about your interests in general terms) and you can, potentially, name specific faculty members with whom you would like to work. Something like “I’m especially interested in the history of 15th century Scandinavian sheep herders because [reasons]. X University would be a great place to complete a thesis on this topic because [reasons] and I would be excited to work with Professor Y, due to her expertise on the Renaissance-era wool trade and Professor Z due to his focus on Finnish Alpaca herders” (or whatever). In lab-based fields, it’s sometimes expected that you would contact professors ahead of time to see whether they are taking students before you apply, but most non-hard-science-y fields do not operate like that.

      For reference letters – it’s completely fine to use professional references if you’ve been out of school for a decade. If it’s a research-focused degree, you might want to see whether you can find at least one professor (or a supervisor who can speak to your ability to do research) who can write you a letter, but for a professional degree, your professional references are absolutely fine.

      1. fueled by coffee*

        Two more things about personal statements for grad school:
        1. You should also highlight any relevant experience you have in the field OR why you are looking to pivot careers, and which skills will transfer over.

        2. You’ll see a lot of advice about writing personal statements for undergrad that focus on highlighting stories/experiences. This is not the case for grad school apps! Your personal statement is effectively the essay version of a cover letter: highlight why you want the position, your qualifications for the position, and why you would be a good fit for their department. You don’t need to include sappy personal stories about yourself! (Obviously you can briefly reference your personal life if it’s relevant — things like “I became interested in a career change to field X after Y personal experience” — but don’t dwell on this. Emphasize how if they accept you, you will perform well in the program and have a successful career afterwards.

  68. Louise*

    I’m just looking for some feedback on if my frustrations are founded or if I’m being silly.

    I work as an engineer. I’m licensed, and I’m about 8 years into my career. I’ve been working for the last couple of years with a client who builds teapots as cheaply and shoddy as possible, and I had to do a lot of my own research and continuing ed to be able to design teapots because the one teapot person in our office left. Teapot company has been okay to work with, demanding at times but for the most part decent, steady, not too stressful work. I disagree ethically with renting out these poorly built teapots at a ludicrous price, but at least I can make sure they’re well designed in the first place.

    So my company was purchased late last year by a national (US) company. They only saw dollar signs with the teapot company. Teapot company has given us multiple projects with ridiculous deadlines since the acquisition, which they agree to and don’t push back. We were told my original company was purchased partly for our ability to do teacup design, but now I’m the only person in the entire, nationwide company who knows how to design teapots, so this falls on me. I have cranked out two full teapot set designs in minimal time frames over the last few months, and I’m burning out. A teapot set should take minimum 2-3 months with the resources we have, they are asking for 2-3 weeks.

    The teapot company has now decided to get into teacups. The teacup market is very competitive with tight schedules, so guess what – more float being cut out, and this falling on me. There are five of these in the pipeline now.

    I told my original boss and the boss brought in by the acquisition that I cannot keep working on teapots because I am desperately burned out. I have had one vacation day all year and I got calls over Christmas and during that one day. I was told point blank that it has to be me because I am the only person who knows how to design teapots and if we don’t agree to their schedules we won’t get the project. Bosses are undercutting budgets in proposals too. I asked, if we tell them something will take 10 hours and it takes 16, where does that extra time come from? New company is only interested in satisfying the client and not listening to the employee who is experiencing rapid teapot burnout.

    Is this reasonable? Am I crazy and I should just stick it out? I have one engineer working below me who’s working 50-60 hour weeks to crank out all the teapot drawings, and I don’t want him to burn out either. He’s the only one who knows how to do teacup drawings, at this point. They have not invested any training into design or drawing of teapots, other than the two of us. And I’m drowning. Teapot company still owes our original company a considerable amount of money – why won’t new company tell them to get bent? They keep talking about what a good client they are, and sure, they bring in work, but only because we agree to their ridiculous demands and don’t have the resources to meet them.

    Is this really just the way it is, like they keep telling me? If I go somewhere else is it just going to be more of the same teapot nightmare? What can I do to advocate for myself here?

    1. Dasein9*

      Ugh, this stinks. No, it is not normal.

      As long as you keep meeting the ludicrous demands placed on you, management has no incentive to fix what’s broken. I’d recommend getting another job as soon as you can. And in the meantime, use your PTO, even though there is no doubt enormous pressure not to.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      If you’ve got 8 years under your belt, you ought to be able to network with former clients, former coworkers, other contacts in the business. Find out if this is normal in the teapot industry, or whether this particular client is an outlier. That will answer the question of “is it really just the way it is”.

      It also sounds like you have a good bit of leverage. “It has to be you” is a cheap psychological ploy. You can start interviewing, you can also press for a raise or for more assistance. You’ve already told them “I can’t keep doing this”, but until you get some interviews & offers, they can call your bluff.

      1. WellRed*

        If you are the only one who can do it, I suggest you use that skill and get out. At the very least, leverage it.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      This is not reasonable. There are companies that have more than one design engineer. There are companies that allow for adequate time in the schedule for their design engineering projects. I promise. You should leave this sinking ship and find a reasonable employer.

      While you are looking for a new job, stop pushing yourself so hard. It takes you two or three months to design a new teapot, so take a whole two months to complete the next new design. Log off of your computer at 5pm every day. What are they going to do? Fire you and have zero people qualified to design new teapots?

    4. PollyQ*

      Not normal, not reasonable, and YOU are not crazy. That said, this company is not the only one that works that way, so when (not if!) you start job-hunting, try hard to suss out what the company culture is like.

    5. Ranon*

      8 years experience is a great time to find a new job, especially as an engineer- you’re seasoned enough a lot of places will be able to have you at full productivity with not a ton of training and young enough to still be pretty cheap, relatively speaking. Put some feelers out, see what happens! Your job sucks enough that you’ll almost certainly see red flags interviewing any place that manages to be worse.

    6. Hatchet*

      I love it when bosses make promises they can’t guarantee and then expect other people to drop everything to fulfill those promises… /s

      I’d suggest just not working more than you 40 hours (or reasonable time frame) each week and encourage your subordinate to do the same. Don’t answer your phone on weekends or when you take your much deserved vacation. What’s the worst they’re going to do, fire you? If so, take your awesome skills to some one else who will appreciate them. Soon enough management should realize that they’ll need to hire more people if they want to keep these unreasonable deadlines or they’ll need to not set such a crazy schedule. It might take some failure for them to figure this out. Like we’ve seen on AAM, I’d approach it with “I’m doing X, but if you want me to do Y as well, we’re going to need to move some parts of X off my plate.” and ask them how you should go about doing that. If management tries the “But you’ve been working at this pace already” line, you can go the route of you were trying to help out with the merger, but that pace is not something that will work any longer. You are being perfectly reasonable. Good luck.

  69. Me!*

    I posted last week about being scared to go back into the office for a temp position. Well, I’m finishing up my first week, and so far, everything is great! The people are lovely, they included me in the food orders (!), and there really isn’t a lot to do; I’m mostly engaged to wait (and can go online). I’ve done a few small projects for the admins in the Big City office and someone here and they were well received. The hourly pay is good; I may finish with enough to pay a good chunk of my doctor’s bill (I’m self-pay currently and had to go in for routine bloodwork and something else). After some travel snafus that were out of my control (accident delays; everyone knows the traffic here is a nightmare), I figured out the easiest way to drive up here and get home, too. AND–my sleep schedule is finally work-adjacent; I’m going to strive to keep it that way after the assignment ends on June 6.

    The only sticking point is the recruiting company. They were supposed to send me an email by the end of the week (today!) so I could get my account and timesheet set up, otherwise I don’t get paid. I emailed them, the recruiter emailed them, and I’ve got my fingers crossed they get it sent before COB today.

    Have you ever had to onboard with a staffing company virtually? I feel like it’s set up well but also not. :\

    2. Hlao-roo*

      No advice, just here to say I’m glad the temp assignment is going well so far!

    3. Me!*

      Good news; they emailed me, and the deadline to submit hours is Sunday at midnight. I can set it up when I get home. Whew!

      I forgot to mention; no one here is masking but everyone is required to be vaccinated, and they even have K95 masks and COVID tests in the office just in case (and espresso! Woo!). The staffing company requires it too. I’m still doing it everywhere else. I hope it’s a good company like this one when I find a full-time job.

    4. Eff Walsingham*

      I’ve worked temp and temp-to-perm for 3 agencies in 2 cities, although all pre-pandemic and not virtually. But I just wanted to say– remember, labour laws exist, and in many places there are laws concerning how long a company has in which to pay a worker for hours they have worked. Since the end of the month is coming, I’d be prepared with an Alison-style “I’m sure we don’t want to run afoul of the rules here… how quickly can we make this right?” sort of collaborative sounding script. As in, *of course* their intention is to pay you ASAP, now what are the immediate steps?

      I have worked in payroll in the past. When somebody, usually a wayward manager or absent clerk, failed to submit hours on time and staff didn’t get paid, payments had to be processed ‘manually’ in-house. It was cumbersome, time consuming and annoying, but guess what? We did it, because you cannot legally withhold pay for hours someone worked in good faith.

      In your place, I would google the labour laws in your state or province and go from there if they don’t do what they said they would. Even though the paying of temp staff may involve more steps and more companies, your employer still has to make sure it happens. My last former company uses 2 temp agencies, and one is notorious for screwing up everyone’s first paychecque, making them jump through hoops, etc. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they have more young people and new Canadians on their books. Their business model seems to rely on workers not knowing what their rights are.

      1. RagingADHD*

        Great stars and garters.

        OP mentioned in last week’s post that the whole assignment is only 2 weeks. In the US it is not uncommon nor illegal to be paid one week after submitting your hours. OP said in a comment that the pay period closes Sunday.

        Being prepared with a script to threaten the employer with the labor board before you’ve even finished out a week’s work is full on bananacrackers.

        1. Eff Walsingham*

          Things may differ in your jurisdiction. Where I’ve worked, at a short assignment it’s all the more important to be sure everything is in place correctly to facilitate payment. After you leave, you may be “out of sight, out of mind” as far as the people you reported to. Particularly if they are inclined to be disorganized or slipshod, they may tend to prioritize the problems of a person standing in front of them, regardless of what is right or sensible.

          I hope I didn’t come off as suggesting that the OP ought to be rude! But in my view, they should be persistent and well informed. As I said, I temped for years in multiple cities, for a variety of companies. Depending on whether a company regularly uses temps or relies on a particular agency, they may not be up to date on the required forms, etc. And turnover among agency staff can also muddle the situation. In spite of what the law requires of employers, no one should ever fail to advocate for themselves in the matter of getting paid. No one has as much vested interest in getting my bills paid than I do!

          1. RagingADHD*

            If the onsite client has anything to do with a temp’s paycheck, then they really do things differently in Canada. In the States, it doesn’t matter whether the client company has ever used an agency before or not, how organized they are, or anything like it. They just pay the bill when the agency sends it, and the temp gets paid regardless.

            Payroll goes 100 percent through the agency.

            And there isn’t anything to “advocate” here because everything so far is working exactly like it’s supposed to. Talk about looking for trouble.

            1. Eff Walsingham*

              That is indeed a difference! In some places where I’ve worked, the temp submits their own timesheet (this seems to be becoming more common) and in some, their client supervisor has done it. But in all cases, the hours worked must be approved by someone at the client company prior to payment being processed, each pay period. And it has to be the right someone, using the right method, according to whatever was agreed between the client and the agency. This is actually the case for internal hourly employees as well… hours worked must be signed off and billed to a particular project or department.

              In my last position as a team lead, I covered for 2 supervisors when they were absent. I could perform many of their duties, but I had no authority to confirm hours for temps (even though I was the only member of the ‘chain of command’ who would see if they were there or not). If it was, say, Friday afternoon before a long weekend, I might find myself scrambling all over the building trying to find someone with both the authority and the ability to do it. Since many managers seemed to slip away early, thinking surely *someone* would stay behind to run things.

              And then the methods for submitting or confirming hours had changed, and the left-behind manager only had the old form saved, and they couldn’t remember the name of the new rep to email them…. So yes, I have learned to anticipate problems.

              If I go back to agency work, I would always carry the card of the agency rep assigned to the client, and also find out who fills in for them if they’re away, if that’s a constant. As a temp, you’re always new. You don’t have time to hang back and see if a situation sorts itself out. You must always be prepared to ask, “What needs to happen so that I get paid on time?” Does this seem like something radical? Because to me it’s just common sense.

              Curious: if the client does not approve hours as worked in the US, how is fraud prevented? We would sometimes find discrepancies, like, Bill seems to have forgotten that he went to the dentist on Tuesday… he worked 3 hours but claimed 7.5. One guy submitted an entire fraudulent time sheet, and forged the supervisor’s signature on it thinking that would constitute approval! That’s… rare, I admit. But still.

              1. Me!*

                I have no idea what goes on between the client and the agency. I get paid through the agency.

                I was able to enter my hours last night, so all is good. Except they emailed me again about some anti-harassment training everyone has to take. Gah, at this rate they’ll be making me do stuff long after the assignment ends, lol. But at least it will be in their system in case they have other work for me. You never know.

                1. Eff Walsingham*

                  Truly, doing things remotely doesn’t seem to have increased efficiency across the board. It works better for some things, not so well for others.

                  Hopefully the agency will think of you if they have a similar well-paid position in the near future! In my experience, once they receive good feedback about a person’s work from a client (and they *will* ask if they’re a good agency), that candidate will have an advantage over someone who they haven’t successfully placed yet. As a temp you are the ‘face’ of the agency in the client workplace. If the assignment goes well, you’re as good as a billboard for them! :)

      2. Me!*

        I get paid a week after for the week before, so the first payday is June 3. The assignment ends on June 6, so that Friday, I should get paid for the rest of the time. This is a HUGE umbrella company with multiple agencies, so I’m fairly sure they know what they’re doing. At least I hope they do.

        They finally emailed me this afternoon, and I was able to set up my account at home and put in my hours, so all is well. It just weirded me out a little; the last time I dealt with this (and with I-9 stuff), I did it in person and it was faster.

        1. Eff Walsingham*

          That’s excellent news! And I’m glad to hear they’ve been treating you so well.

  70. anon for this*

    I’m about to accept a job that would be a dream job (I know, I know, they don’t exist) if not for the 10K pay cut. I got them up 5K from their original offer and that’s as high as they can go; the only good thing about my current job is the salary and I’m trying to reframe it as investing in my happiness, but I feel like I’m Betraying Feminism and The Labor Movement by not turning it down.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Congrats on the job! Money isn’t everything. Work/Life balance, NonCrazy Coworkers, Work that is interesting to you and at a pace you like, Benefits, PTO, are all things that aren’t reflected in the salary but might be worth more than money to you at times.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      I will always take happiness over money if I can afford to. It’s not a betrayal to anything if you’re making the choice that’s right for you. If you will be struggling financially to take this role, I’d reconsider, but short of that, do what makes you happy!

    3. Hlao-roo*

      If the job seems like a good fit for you and the salary is enough to meet your needs, I hereby give you my blessing to take it! You help Feminism and the Labor Movement by living your best life, not by falling into the capitalist trap your salary determines your worth.

    4. Hen in a Windstorm*

      If you can afford that, it’s the ultimate luxury. Having control of your finances enough to work for less money and more fulfillment is the epitome of independence. I don’t see how that goes against Feminism. The Labor Movement is probably not going to scold you unless you reach out to them. ;-)

    5. Policy Wonk*

      Are there other things that can offset the pay cut? Better benefits, a shorter commute, WFH, something? If you can find pros to offset the very big con, you aren’t betraying anything. But if you aren’t seeing offsetting pros you need to consider whether this is really a dream job. You might start working there and find out it’s not what you expected, and regret the decision. Good luck!

    6. Events Coordinator?*

      Feminism and the Labor Movement advocate better *choices* but you don’t have to take them. You having the ability to make that choice to work your dream job follows those principles. Go get it!

  71. It's A-Me*

    So, I’m a software engineer at an SaaS startup, and I’ve been helping out with email outreach to prospects. Sent out a cold email to someone the other day, and got this reply back:

    “I do in fact mind — you somehow dug up my personal email for this, and I view that as an intrusion. So kindly remove me from your company’s contacts and do not reach out again.”

    I removed him, but IMO his tone was extremely rude, unprofessional, and confrontational for no reason. Is this normal?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It was confrontational for a good reason.

      You spammed him. Don’t spam people.

      Your marketing staff should know better than that. Cold emailing is about the most useless marketing & sales tactic there is.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      You might have more luck messaging through LinkedIn or replying to people who comment on your companies social media posts. Then it’s a little less random and they might be better expecting it.

    3. ThatGirl*

      I hate getting cold emails, even to my work email. I am almost 99% of the time not the person to make whatever software decision you’re selling, and even if I were, soliciting me is a bad way to go about selling to me. I mostly ignore them but hate the ones who keep pestering me. One of my coworkers had a woman start harassing him on LinkedIn!

      So no, I don’t think that was rude or unprofessional. He could have been much ruder.

    4. RagingADHD*

      He was absolutely reasonable to be annoyed, and was clear and direct in his response.

      1) As ABET pointed out, cold email is obnoxious and worse than useless.

      2) Why on earth would you send anything to his *personal* email address? That’s beyond spam, it’s stalkery.

      He was the furthest thing from rude – he did you a big courtesy by sending a personal reply instead of reporting your email as spam (which, if you got a lot of, could compromise your company’s ability to have emails delivered at all).

      You need to learn a whole lot more about marketing and sales before you do any more “helping”. In particular, you need to learn about the CAN-SPAM Act, which makes many types of cold email illegal. From the FTC:

      “Despite its name, the CAN-SPAM Act doesn’t apply just to bulk email. It covers all commercial messages, which the law defines as “any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service,” including email that promotes content on commercial websites. The law makes no exception for business-to-business email. That means all email – for example, a message to former customers announcing a new product line – must comply with the law.

      Each separate email in violation of the CAN-SPAM Act is subject to penalties of up to $46,517, so non-compliance can be costly. “

    5. Generic Name*

      I mean, do YoU want to be contacted by a vendor for business purposes at your personal email address?

    6. Lady_Lessa*

      I don’t think that it is normal, but who knows what kind of day the person was having. OR they are the type that argues with telemarketers.

    7. NotaSpamFan*

      If you send an unsolicited email to my *work* address I will ignore the first message. The second message gets your domain blocked and reported as SPAM. I don’t EVER reply as it is a waste of my time.

      The same message to my personal email gets blocked/reported as spam the first time.

      Your marketing department needs to up their game so you are contacting warm leads.

    8. Rob*

      He wasn’t out of line. He was definitely annoyed, but the “somehow you dug up my personal email for this, which I view as an intrusion on my privacy” still falls in the range of polite-but-pissed to me. Is he not allowed to say “I am not interested, so don’t contact me again?”

      A lot of people have separate emails for personal stuff and professional stuff (as in, a separate professional email from their “name at work dot com” address), especially if they’re younger and more tech savvy. Since you mentioned you work in tech, that’s a safe assumption. He was terse for sure, but terse ≠ unprofessional, let alone extremely unprofessional. He’s saying “what you see as #hustle, go-getter type behavior, comes off as overstepping boundaries to me.” And he’s definitely not alone in thinking that

    9. Eff Walsingham*

      Yeeeah, if you emailed his personal email, why is it incumbent on him to be professional?

      Arguably, *you* made it personal… he just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding.

    10. fhqwhgads*

      If you do not have an established business relationship with this person – for which they gave you that particular email address for communications for that business relationship – and they have not double-opted in to emails from your company, then the email you sent was by definition spam.
      The response you got it the professional version of what they could’ve otherwise said. It’s not rude. It is direct. Y’all were in the wrong here.

    11. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      How did you get his email? Am I right in assuming that a marketing person (or similar) provided you with a list of people / email addresses to reach out to, rather than you finding his email yourself. If so I think it’s time to push back on marketing (or whoever it was) about how they are obtaining these ‘leads’ and potentially how it puts the company in a difficult position with regards how personal info is being used etc.

  72. Torn*

    Struggling to work out the boundary here:

    Work Context;
    I work in a mid senior role, about to be promoted and targeting a second promotion within the year (reporting line stays the same with this promotion, would change with next one)
    I have an excellent relationship with my grand boss, and a “not quite excellent but not far off” relationship with my boss
    I work in the U.K. in a business which is rapidly growing

    Situation:
    A close family member is becoming increasingly alcohol dependent and is at the stage now where it’s the end of the line. At this stage I can’t predict whether that will be a “done something stupid” sudden type timeline, or a slow “in liver failure and needs nursing” type timeline.

    Dilemma:
    So far I’ve just told my boss/grand boss they have a health situation which may or may not mean I need some flexibility-which they are entirely supportive of. However they’re both (fairly) suggesting we consider a plan for my work should the worst happen. Knowing the full situation it’s clear it is impossible to predict. I don’t want to end up with my boss in the detail of all my projects for months on end as this likely delays my next promotion and I will not let my family member take that away from me. But also if I got a call in a weeks time I’d need to drop everything and leave.

    Part of me wants to keep it entirely private and stick with the “ongoing health situation which is unpredictable” but it’s getting trickier over time to keep to, and part of me thinks if I just give them the context at least they’ll understand why I can’t plan and why more oversight could become unsustainable if it goes for months/years. I do trust them (especially my grand boss) to keep it confidential and non judgemental. I don’t want to over share but I also don’t want to appear obstructive over accepting support. To complicate matters asking for help more is a development point for me, so I risk coming across as if I’m not working on this if I refuse the extra oversight.

    So-do I approach this honestly and just give the context so they can actually understand why it’s so challenging to predict, or do I ask them to trust me to set the level of involvement which could look like I’m not willing to accept help?

    1. RagingADHD*

      I think you should, at a minimum, let them know that this relative’s condition does not have a specific timeline, and it could be a couple of years before anything drastic happens. You just don’t know.

      And, while it’s premature to actively plan a handover, I think there are probably ways that you could configure your work, your notes and recordkeeping, your project status and external relationships, or your file organization that would make it easier for someone to step in on short notice. The more senior you are, the more important it is to have a “hit by a bus” type plan anyway. If you were temporarily or permanently incapacitated tomorrow for any reason at all, what would someone have to do to take over your projects and keep the company from losing money?

      It seems like that sort of planning — the kind that’s good to have anyway — is the sort of thing you could share and update your boss/grandboss about, without giving up your personal privacy.

      1. ferrina*

        Agree with all of this. There’s a balance between “you’re in all my projects” and “you know nothing about my projects.”

        I always keep a running record of my projects somewhere. I update this list a couple times a week. It’s a quick synopsis of where the project is at, with bullets of items I’m currently working on (including if I’m waiting to hear back from someone). That way my boss could always at a glance know what my projects were and where they stood. The boss can figure out the rest from there (clients and coworkers are both sympathetic to “My Direct Report had a health emergency in the family; I’ll be handling this project for now”) You could also include recommended SMEs on your list, if that makes sense for your role.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      If you want to plan for a drop-of-the-hat week or so off of work (should your relative take a turn for the worse), you can work with your bosses on that without giving up any privacy. They don’t need to know the specific condition in order to plan for your absence.

      I agree with RagingADHD that there are some smaller things (keeping project notes in a shared location, etc.) that will make it easier to be gone. If you let your boss/grand boss know you’ve put some things in place they’ll probably ask you about it less which will be less stressful.

    3. PollyQ*

      I would say nothing. You don’t actually have any information about your relative’s prognosis that could be practically applied to any kind of project or career plan, and even if you know it’s going to go badly at some point, that’s not that different from what almost everyone is dealing with when they have people who might need their help. Anyone could have a medical emergency at any time, and if you wait long enough, almost everyone eventually will. Having to drop everying with little or no notice to help a sick or injured relative is a pretty normal state of affairs.

  73. Omskivar*

    I’m looking for a new job, and I’m wondering how upfront I need to be with my supervisor. I’m part-time, and when I’ve checked similar positions on Indeed they’re all at least $1.50 more an hour than I’m currently making. There was a full time opening when a coworker left, and I applied, but they wanted someone with a lot more experience so I didn’t get the position. I’ve been applying and interviewing. I mentioned the situation to my therapist and she asked if I’d told my supervisor that I needed to go full time or I’d have to start looking elsewhere. This feels kind of aggressive to me, like I’m giving an ultimatum out of nowhere. Do people normally do this?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Yes. It’s giving supervisor a heads up that they’re going to lose you and a chance to keep you. Plenty of people do multiple part times, or just work part time while caring for family etc so it might not be on supervisors radar that you are needing full time or quitting.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      I’d want to know and if I wanted to keep someone and could do something to make that happen, I would. While it’s an ultimatum, it’s also the reality of the matter. You’re not saying it when it’s not true, you’re stating what you need from a job and that you’re not getting it currently.

    3. WellRed*

      I’m not sure I’d bother at this point. You applied for full time and they turned you down. However you also ask if this would seem out of nowhere. It’s not out of nowhere. By applying previously for FT you indicated your desire to work full time.

    4. ecnaseener*

      I don’t think you should be so clear about it unless you know for sure your boss won’t push you out before you’re ready to leave.

      If you are sure of that, you don’t have to make it sound aggressive or like an ultimatum – “what do you think are my chances of getting a full-time position soon / what do you think I’d need to do to be competitive? I need to start making a full-time income, and I doubt I’ll be able to find a second part-time job that fits my availability here.”

  74. HugeTractsofLand*

    My partner just accepted a job that will give him work hours of 12-8pm M-F, remote. My own work hours are 7am-4pm M-F, in office. Do people with similarly different work schedules have any suggestions for how to make it work, i.e. still feel connected, still kinda split chores?

    We’re childless, no pets, and currently have a loose dinner schedule where he cooks and I clean one night, then switch those duties the next night. We’re both introverts, so normally after a post-work hangout we separate to do our own thing then rejoin before bed. We agreed during his interview process that we could make the different schedules work, and do have some ideas about him making crockpot dinners, etc., but suggestions are welcome!

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      A 12-8 schedule can actually be wonderful, as long as you’re not somebody who habitually goes to bed at 10pm. You can get a lot of out-of-the-home stuff done between 9am and 11am much more easily, when everybody else is in an office.

      So split the chores up differently. Your partner takes on all of the out-of-the-house chores, like grocery shopping.

      One important piece of advice — do not take the start time of 12 as an excuse to sleep in until 11. Maintain a normal waking schedule, weekdays and weekends.

      1. HugeTractsofLand*

        I agree with you about the perks of 12-8! I’m the night owl of the two of us, so we joke that we ought to switch jobs since I’d love that schedule. I like the thought of him doing the groceries in the morning, and the part about not sleeping in is helpful too. Thank you for the advice!

    2. AdequateArchaeologist*

      My spouse and I are on a different schedule (he does 10 on/4 off away from home, I’m the usual 9-5 M-F). Try to do as much admin/maintenance/chores/etc while the other is working so you can have the nights/weekends for fun stuff and quality time together. It’s not a 100% fix and there will be times when you don’t like the schedule (which is valid! It may not work in the long run and that’s ok), but it will make it easier.

      1. HugeTractsofLand*

        Thanks for the advice, especially about keeping realistic that it will suck sometimes. Hopefully he can shift his schedule further down the line, but it makes sense to maximize together time.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      A few years ago, I was working 6a-2p at home and my husband was working 2p-10p away, both M-F. It was not a whole lot of fun, since I was going to bed before he got home, and he wasn’t getting up until 11 and had to leave by 1pm for his commute, but I took my lunch break before he left most days and we at least had a few minutes to spend together. “We” got first dibs on weekend afternoons (because we both tend to keep our normal sleep schedules on weekends, so I was getting up and going to bed hours earlier than him) for spending time together.

      1. HugeTractsofLand*

        Oof, that sounds tough! It also sounds like you made the best of a bad situation, though. I agree that weekend quality time will probably be key, but I also like the idea of overlapping a lunch or snack break.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          We were in that boat for about ten months, before he (both of us actually) got promoted a couple of times. Now I work 7-4 at home and he works 10-6 at home and I kinda wish he was at least back on site, but it is what it is :)

    4. Hen in a Windstorm*

      I’m not following why you need to make crockpot dinners just for him. He should take a dinner break, just like you take a lunch break. You can still eat together and then you go do your thing like normal. Maybe you do the weekday dishes and he does all the weekend ones? Or he does all the cooking and washing up on the weekends.

      You still split chores, they just happen at different times. Like he can vacuum in the morning, you dust in the evening or whatever.

      1. HugeTractsofLand*

        I actually said *he* would make the crockpot dinners for both of us, like he could prep it before noon, set it to cook, and it would be ready for a joint 8pm-ish dinner. My partner loves cooking, so ideally he wouldn’t have to entirely give that up on weekdays, but you’re right that he could just get extravagant on the weekends! I’m sure in the first few weeks we’ll quickly realize what’s feasible and what isn’t. I also like your suggestion of him taking a dinner break so that we can eat together regardless of who cooked. Thanks for the advice!

        1. Eff Walsingham*

          My husband and I have more overlap than you do, but we absolutely find that the crockpot is our friend! If it’s big enough, you can each get a couple of meals out of it at the time that best suits your digestion. I find that it helps mid-week, if I’m feeling that “I never see you!” sensation, that we had the same dinner even if we each ate alone. “How was the pot roast? Too many onions?” Etc. It’s something we can plan together. He usually buys groceries on his commute home now that I’m WFH. I try to do more house stuff because I’m here anyway. We’ve fallen into the habit of separate laundry, because it’s not that fun to coordinate and this way we each have everything we need.

          In the winter I sometimes make 70s-style casseroles so that we can each reheat pieces on our own, but that doesn’t work as well in the summer because we don’t want such heavy food. Then we rely more on salads.

          We definitely block off time to reconnect on weekends! Even if it’s just reading books at home together. One day for family and friends, one day to recharge, separately and together. It works for us.

    5. Ompp*

      Figure out the best overlap hours and intentionally plan around reserving that as your ‘together’ time. Use the non-overlapping free time as your alone ‘introvert’ time. Eg maybe you decide that 8-10:30 pm is going to be your “together” time, so prioritize that! Maybe you cook dinner ahead, sit down together when he’s off work at 8, hang out together after dinner, and he does the dishes after you go to bed. Basically with the different schedules I think you’ll just have to be more intentional about figuring out what are your top priorities to do together, and make sure to plan around that.

  75. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

    On-the-fly question here: I just recently inherited a new manager- former one was promoted and I miss her :(.

    I’ve been with the company <6 months and came in with a go-getting self-starter attitude so am helpful I'll be given expanded responsibilities soon.

    My team's lead is out-of-office today and our Former Manager (FM) assigned him a service request by default (he didn't include her in his PTO Outlook message probably because she's "not the boss" anymore). I decided to do the request as it's something I know how to do and there is a minor time constraint on it (done by 6/1, we're closed Monday).

    Is it appropriate to message FM in Teams and tell her I took care of it? I really want to (to let her know it's been completed and also to show my confidence/independence/initiative) but am also apprehensive since she may not realize that I'm capable of that and also don't want her to think I'm too attached to her, still.

    1. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

      *-I meant to type hopeful instead of helpful in the 2nd paragraph.

      And, for context- we’re a very easygoing team although with her promotion, FM isn’t engaging in conversation with us quite as much.

    2. ferrina*

      Yes, it’s just fine and normal! “Hey, I took care of X for you. fyi, Bob is out of town today, but please let me know if there’s anything else you need!”

  76. Rob*

    Kind of a sensitive question, but here goes.

    tl;dr: How do I disclose that I’m looking into psychiatric medication to my boss? Should I, even?

    My therapist has diagnosed me with major depressive disorder. I’ve done a lot to improve all the health factors I can control, like sleep, exercise, and nutrition, but I’m still feeling extremely low and without energy, so I’m looking into medication. But it’s hard to find appointments, and the last psychiatrist I spoke to said she doesn’t believe I need anything. So it’ll be a good few weeks until I feel close to 100% again, after you account for the next appointment, filling the script, then the meds taking a few days to start working.

    I have a really good relationship with my manager, however I feel a little weird talking mental health with him. He knows I’ve been dealing with this stuff informally, and I took some mental health days at the start of the month, but it’ll be a while till I’m really feeling like I’m giving my best again. I feel self conscious about that, even though he says it’s nothing to worry about. That worry’s also intermingling with concerns about whether I should invoke the ADA, what management/HR should know and how to tell them, the whole nine yards. Should I bring this up, and if so, how should I?

    1. PollyQ*

      Speaking as someone who’s dealt with major depression at work, I wouldn’t disclose ANY details of your treatment at all. The most I would do is tell your boss that you know you’ve been less than your best, and you’re working on getting medical help with that. There’s so much stigma around mental health issues, I wouldn’t feel safe discussing any more detail with a boss.

      Also, on a medical note, most anti-depressants take 6-8 weeks to ramp up before you start feeling better, sorry to say. I know how hard it is to find a psychiatrist right now, so you might want to see if your PCP might prescribe something for you. Good luck!

    2. ferrina*

      I wouldn’t call out MDD specifically. You could certainly say “I have a chronic health condition that can give me bouts of fatigue. I’m addressing it with my doctor, but I may need a few extra health days while we find the right long-term solution.”

      The above script gives the manager all they need to know- there’s a health condition, you’re dealing with it, and here’s the things that you’ll need from work. It gives your manager room to support you without putting them in an odd spot. If you ever need additional accommodations, you’ll have already laid the groundwork. Congrats on getting a diagnosis, and I hope your treatment experience goes smoothly!

      2. Rob*

        Yeah, I think this is fair. As in, my boss and I are friendly outside of work (I’ve met his wife and kid, he’s met my girlfriend, we occasionally chat on the weekends about some shared hobbies), so being completely silent would be a bad move. I’d be doing a worse job without any explanation, and I trust him well enough, I just don’t want to be TMI.

        It’s bitten me in the past, I’m about a decade into my career and kept completely silent about my mental health struggles at an old job I didn’t really trust, so it looked to my boss like I was just checked out of the job. By the time I came out with it, it wasn’t really a salvageable relationship. Not that it was all on me, my boss then was a bad boss, but I’m concerned with what I can do in this current situation with this current boss.

    3. Med Taker*

      Your boss does not need to know about any kind of medication you are taking!! I would say not to worry about invoking ADA unless there are specific accommodations needed; and those should be related to adjustments needed for you to do your job well.

      Best of luck with getting a treatment that works for you; I’ve found antidepressants to be a good tool in dealing with my own issues.

      1. Rob*

        Thank you! I’m hoping they help, honestly the “I don’t think SSRIs would help you” really ticked me off. I work out 7 days a week, I’m getting adequate sleep, my nutrition is fine, I have a healthy social circle… I think choosing to take meds that alter your brain chemistry is a big decision, so I didn’t decide to try it on a whim, As far as I can tell, I’ve done enough work improving my lifestyle factors that any further improvement I can make is a really marginal one.

    4. Beebee*

      I just started on anxiety/depression mediation and I didn’t mention it to my work at all. Not because there is stigma around it for me (I love taking them and it has drastically improved my life) but because it just really wasn’t any of their business.

      I don’t know what you will be taking but there is a chance for some bad side effects, especially if the first medication you use doesn’t end up working the way you’d like. For myself, I was absolutely exhausted while I figured out the best time of day to take it + I initially was taking it at night which gave me terrible sleep for the first couple weeks. Thankfully my work was slow but if we had been busy or people noticed all I planned to say to people was “heads up I have recently started on a new medication that has left me a little tired / needing to take frequent breaks while I sort through it”.

      I hope whatever you end up taking / doing ends up helping you and improving your mental health!

    5. Bernice Clifton*

      FYI – you don’t need to see a psychiatrist to be prescribed depression medicine. Internists and family medicine physicians had to go through psych training and they know how to evaluate for it.

      1. Lyudie*

        Seconding this, I have always gotten my meds from my primary care provider.

        Also, you mentioned a few days for the meds to work…be aware it can take a couple of weeks, not days. You might start to see some effect within a week, but full effect takes a bit of time.

    6. mreasy*

      I do not recommend discussing mental health with your management. I have had it come back to haunt me before unfortunately.

  77. Pascall*

    Also as a nice note, I was able to get FMLA for our summer ten-hour days so that I only have to work 9. I’ll get docked in some pay, but it’s a fair exchange to be able to come in to work at my normal time rather than risking smashing into another car on the highway because I’m too sleepy to drive at 6am.

    It was definitely a process to navigate but I had a lot of help and I plead with other people to use FMLA whenever they need it and it’s available/works with their situation. Same with accommodations. Don’t be scared to use them when you can!

  78. anon e mouse*

    Another week, another vent. Two rejections from jobs where I had interviewed this week (plus more where I didn’t get one). One of these was fine, whatever, probably had a more conventional candidate, I get it. The other one, I did unpaid homework for, which already makes me a little annoyed. Then the recruiter CALLS me to tell me that the homework “didn’t go so well” because I was supposed to read between the lines of the instructions and do some things that would have taken much longer than the assignment was supposed to take. I told the recruiter I thought the instructions were a little vague, given that feedback, and he said “personally I agree and told them that, but they said that this was part of the test.” So on the one hand, I dodged a bullet, because I don’t think I want to work in an environment where an intentionally misleading question is seen as an accurate representation of the job. On the other hand, an annoying waste of time for all involved!

    1. ferrina*

      Wow. So essentially the job requirement is “candidate should be able to read our minds”. That’s ridiculous.

    2. Formerly Frustrated Optimist*

      OK, so neither of these positions was probably meant to be for you. The situation with the first one you described – sure, that one may have been a reach, and you understood why your application wasn’t moved forward.

      But the second one! That is what is so demoralizing with a job search, in my experience. You did everything they told you to, including spending your unpaid time on a “homework” assignment. And then you get to the end and find out it was a garbage process.

      So yes, as you noted, bullet dodged. But the crappiness of the job search process lives on, unfortunately.

  79. J. Strange*

    I have a problem with my boss/mentor.

    Basically we have a small business that is just us two and two admins. Think senior researcher and junior researcher. I am junior, only a few years in but very advanced in my studies and could say I have the brain for this type of knowledge and application.

    My mentor is a great researcher and good teacher usually, I get a lot our of our time together, but he has a few flaws. He seems to hoard and then keep information away from me. For example talking about something “Have you ever read about Fergus’ Theorem?” and I will say no, but I would love to and he suddenly realizes that for some reason he doesn’t want me to know more about that and then doesn’t say more and later if I ask, says he doesn’t know where the book about that thing is right now. There have been multiple incidents like this.

    Why don’t I just leave and study these things without him? I have thought about this. I could set up my own mini-business and get independent funding, and try to research on my own. He is basically the biggest expert in our niche field and everybody else who knows about this field is more of a hobbyist. So honestly it is risky setting up my own business, but I could also see myself mentoring others and gaining insights from new people in the field in the process.

    Tldr: My mentor hogs knowledge. Should I go my own way or try to keep negotiating with him to give me access to some of his files and books?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Keep a notebook for all of these mentions. Almost everything is on the Internet, including Fergus’ Theorem, and you don’t need access to your boss’ library for that. Consider the time you spend looking up and reading about that stuff as part of your post-grad continuing education. If this is a cutting-edge field, then you ought to be browsing the pre-press servers as a matter of course.

      It’s more important that he not hog access to the grant organizations, customers, and any other professional peers. Try to cultivate as many contacts with those people as you can.

  80. RosyGlasses*

    Folks at smaller companies (under 50) – what do you wish your company would offer/do/act on around diversity and inclusion — or, on the flip side, what have you appreciated your small employer providing?

  81. Filosofickle*

    How can I ask my team to engage more in team conversations, while respecting that some people are just quiet?

    I am mindful not to ask people to talk more or turn their cameras on, because I want to make room for multiple styles. But in practice, what’s happening is a LOT of dead air. Our work is highly collaborative, these project/team meetings are active working sessions where we’re (supposed to be) collectively sharing ideas and making plans. So when half of the team stays dead silent, they’re not doing their job.

    Is active listening a constructive enough thing to ask for? For example, if someone asks me a question and I answer it, often I get crickets. No “ok, thanks” or “I’ll have to think about that” if they don’t have a response. The silence reads to me like they are confused or didn’t like the answer. I need to hear some acknowledgement they heard me. The same people also tend to stay off video so I can’t even see them nod or make eye contact which would honestly be enough.

    Morale isn’t high, as you might guess, and our projects are unwieldy. I can’t fix those things. But I can’t do my job if other people won’t engage. Any advice?

    2. ferrina*

      How big are your team meetings? Would it make sense to do smaller breakout sessions? (some might feel more comfortable in smaller settings)

      Ask for acknowledgement! End your answer with “Does that make sense?” or “Do you think that sound like a good plan, or should we ammend it?” If you’re speaking to someone specifically and they don’t acknowledge, you could blame tech- “Uh-oh, did we lose Sharon? Sharon, are you there?” That will usually get some kind of response.

      Is there anyone that the team reacts well to? Anyone who you can deputize to take over some points that can get the conversation going?

      Send out the assignment and/or agenda in advance. Ask for folks to spend 30 minutes thinking about this question, then say that in our meeting we’ll be discussing “XYZ” and looking for solutions to “ABC”. Minimal prep time, but enough that folks that don’t speak well off the cuff have time to prepare.

      Get to know folks 1 on 1. I’ve had folks share AMAZING ideas with me in 1:1, then never say a thing in group settings. In that scenario, I’ll say something like “Ahmed shared an idea with me that I loved! It was about the Llama Grooming- Ahmed, can you say more about that?”

    3. Generic Name*

      What do you mean by “team conversations”? Like personal chit chat, or do you need to solicit input from them during meetings for a business purpose?

      1. Filosofickle*

        Project meetings, so yes the goal is to solicit input for business purposes

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Are you sure that talking out loud among an entire group of 8-10 people (or however many you have) is the best way to collaborate, given the kinds of work you do?

      Can you (as the lead) start segmenting and farming out the exploratory work to smaller groups, have them get ideas down in writing, and then report back in 1-3 days with a short-list? Or put together an outline document, and have everyone edit it simultaneously during the meeting.

    5. just another bureaucrat*

      Small breakout group work has been a big thing for my teams. Keeping the number down to 3 is helpful. I totally get this and I think you’re getting a little don’t bother but I think it’s important to try to get folks engaged and if you have a topic you can break out into small chunks and then have each group work that group and come back together that’s been a big success with my teams.

  82. WantonSeedStitch*

    It sounds like your biggest goal in these meetings is to make sure that the llama groomer and poodle groomer know what each other is doing. Do their jobs intersect in any way? Are there any shared techniques, tools, or best practices? Are there any projects–say, a breeder who breeds both poodles and llamas–where both of them have to participate? Those are things I would focus on. Here’s an example agenda:

    *Updates on Wooly Wonders Farm project
    **Llama groomer update
    **Poodle groomer update
    **

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’m having real problems today with posting comments. ANYWAY, that was supposed to continue:
      *Fur shears–how are you using them? Do we need to evaluate the shears we purchase? Any tips to share?
      * Professional development: Llama Groomer will share what they learned at the Grooming Conference last week (Poodle Groomer gets to go next year)
      * What’s in the pipeline for our team, and how are we going to handle it?

      If the jobs are really separate, with not much overlap, then the meetings shouldn’t be needed.

  83. Life's a Garden: Dig It!*

    I’m a first-time manager and have landed on a problem I’m not entirely sure if I should even address. For context, I manage college student workers, and while I assign and supervise their work, they are employees of their college and I don’t have any input in the hiring process.

    These student workers do good student work! But I feel like they don’t have a good grasp on professional norms or general manners, and I can’t tell if I’m being an unnecessary stickler, an old fuddy-duddy, or if I actually have a situation I need to provide management/coaching for. Most of them don’t say hello or goodbye to me, rarely say please and thank you to me or each other, and sometimes frame instructions and feedback to me in ways that feel accusatory, abrupt, or rude. (For example, I’d say something like, “Next time we’re putting the materials away, we should store the heaviest items at the bottom of the bin so nothing gets crushed in transit. We lost a few things last week and it’s expensive to replace them.” They would say, “You broke the fragile materials that you put in the bottom of the bin.”)

    They have never ever done anything glaringly inappropriate, or I’d feel more confident that this was A Problem To Solve. Instead, it’s more of a vague feeling when I’m working with them that they’re not doing things in a way that I expect from professional adults who are at work. I’m 30, and their median age is 20, and so I’m trying to figure out if this is a generational or cultural difference in the way they communicate with people broadly. I respect that Gen Z has a much more practical approach to engaging with each other: they’re generally very direct and uninterested in the extra fluff that softens their point. I’m also autistic, and so I am deeply curious if my own attachment to a more “traditional” communication style is stemming from the fact that I’ve carefully practiced mirroring the language I hear from my own (Gen X, allistic) supervisors and mentors. (I don’t like to feed into the generational culture wars but I do think that communication norms differ by age bracket, regional culture, and an individual’s socialization experience.)

    If they’re still communicating clearly and accomplishing the work I expect of them, is this something to address? I admit that a lot of my focus on this comes from feeling kind of bummed out and snubbed that they don’t say goodbye to me, and I’m truly unsure if this is petty or indicative of an issue that may impact them in their future careers if I don’t intervene. If I should address it, what do I say so this doesn’t come across as me being like, “Hi, I’m your Weird Boss and I now require you to say ~the magic words~ at work”?

    1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      For the “please” and “thank you”, hopefully you are saying those words to them yourself — not in an exaggerated manner that sounds fake and condescending. If you say it to them, they might get better at following your lead. “Please stack the items in the bin with the heaviest at the bottom. Thank you.”

      Another small suggestion, I can’t hear your tone of voice, but using “we” might sound a bit like a parent admonishing a smaller child; unless you also are not stacking things properly, “we” can really come across as condescending. When giving instructions or making statements, use “I” or “you” instead of “we”. For example, “Tom, I need you to please stack the gear in this order: bowling ball at the bottom, blankets, then eggs on top. Thank you.”

  84. Elm Trees Grow Tall*

    How bad does it look to work as a contractor in one company for 6 months, accept a “regular” job at the company and then leave for another job in 3-6 months?

    Has COVID changed the rules about job-hopping? If not, how long do you have to stay for it not to raise eyebrows?

    Does it matter if it’s your first “real” job?

    1. ferrina*

      The contractor position is a red herring- if it’s a 6 month contract, just note that on your resume and say you stayed 6 months. Commitment fulfilled.

      Getting a longer term job and leaving after 3-6 months- that’s not great. At some jobs the onboarding isn’t fully complete until 3 months in. So you’ve barely taken over your full responsibilities, and you’re gone. That’s not something a company likes to see. Covid hasn’t changed that. 1 year is still standard if you want to count the job on your resume- that’s usually how long you need before you start making tangible contributions.

      If you are entry level, you can get more grace, especially if the job you’re leaving isn’t in your field. Again, be prepared to have a strong reason for leaving (new job is in my desired field, there was truly an amazing opportunity you couldn’t pass up) and expect folks not to count the short-term job as part of your true experience.

    2. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      I don’t think it will be a big deal. I think Alison usually says that its a pattern of job hopping. If you started as a contractor and then hired by the company that is pretty normal. So really instead of 6 months one job and 6 months another you have 1 job for 1 year.

      Now if you have had nothing but 3- 6months at multiple companies it would look a little bit worse

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      So you were working for Company X the whole time: 6 months as a contractor, then 3-6 more as a regular employee? That’s not as bad as 6 months at X and 3-6 at Y and then moving to Z.

      Do not emphasize the contractor stuff in your resume. You worked for company X – the fact that you were technically employed by a staffing company for the first 6 months matters mostly to the IRS, not your future employers.

  85. Lattes are for lovers*

    Rant warning: why so companies post that a job is remote but when it reality it’s not?

    I have been working remotely full-time for almost a decade. I only apply to jobs that are listed as full-time remote.

    I had an interview last week, i explicitly asked if the role was permanently remote. Recruiter said “yes.” This week, the recruiter followed up to schedule a second interview. The “remote” job actually requires this person to be in the office at least one day a week. Oh, and during special times, you will be required to be in the office every day. Needless to say, i removed myself from consideration.

    1. WellRed*

      Because they know that’s what people want so they try to lure you in and hope that you’ll be so wowed by the job you’ll change your mind.

      1. Lattes are for lovers*

        Yes – but dont they realize once that they are not only wasting candidates’ time, but they are also wasting their time? They are wasting their time interviewing people who are probably going to turn the job down if working remote is important to them.

        1. JelloStapler*

          Again they think they’re so amazing they can convince you otherwise. Same reason why companies continue to be shocked when people leave because they’re not paid enough or need flexibility, etc.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      There are a few plausible explanations for this that I’ve heard:

      – role was posted when all/most people were remote from COVID, so whoever posted clicked “100% remote” but the company is now bringing people back into the office
      – the role was always hybrid but the person posting it was well-meaning and confused so they selected both “on-site” AND “100% remote”
      – someone in the company made the decision to post the job in the “100% remote” category despite knowing it’s a hybrid role because “once they’ve applied for it/see how awesome we are the candidates won’t care that they actually need to be in the office”

  86. Hunnybee*

    Does anyone else have issues with your thumbs (repetitive stress from typing / mouse use)? If so, any suggestions?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Wrist rests. Bigger mouse with more support. Stretch the thumbs periodically (Hold your hand palm down, move just the thumb, slide it toward and behind your index finger then in front of it). Never hold and scroll with thumb on phone, use a popsocket, or a phone holder.

      1. Hunnybee*

        This is very helpful — any suggestions on a mouse? I’ve been using the standard macbook mouse for the past few months which may also be to blame.

    2. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      Maybe a brace or glove. My mom used to have this glove that was stretchy and fingerless which helped with her arthritis.

      I once had to wear a big clunky brace that put my thumb in a specific position because I somehow wrenched my thumb and all of the typing and mouse work I did aggravated the injury. I do not recommend one of those if you have to type.

      Something that helped me a lot was getting my desk set up a bit more ergonomical. I had a mousepad that had a little support cushion for my wrist and a wrist pad for the keyboard.

    3. ecnaseener*

      This might be more than you need / more disruptive than it’s worth for you, but I knew someone who had a trackball mouse instead of a traditional mouse. No fingers needed, just a hand in whatever position is comfortable.

    4. Maryn*

      I’m on the computer many hours a day and have had this problem in the past. Things you can try:

      –Learn to use the mouse with your other hand.
      –Learn to use the mouse on a different surface, like your thigh or the arm of your chair.
      –Get a track-ball mouse with the ball as big as a cue ball, so you use the flat palm to move it. Ideally, use it with your other hand.
      –Try wrist support for the track-ball mouse and for the keyboard, so your wrists are straight.
      –Wear a thumb stabilizer away from the computer. I’ve had three, and this one was by far the best: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YIFA2C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

      For me, the different mouse, different hand to work it, and the thumb stabilizer fixed it permanently.

      1. Might Be Spam*

        Does the trackball mouse have the ball on the top? The one I like, is a gaming mouse. It’s a bit large, so I can’t get a tight grip on it and my fingers can relax. The buttons are oversized and I can hit them by rocking my whole hand. I can actually wear the thumb stabilizer while I’m working and it definitely helps.

    5. Mill Miker*

      Try and pay attention to what you’re doing during the day that’s placing your hand in awkward positions, even if they don’t hurt at the time.
      I went through a few wrist braces and other solutions before I realized that because I was typing more code than prose throughout the day, I was constantly reaching for the punctuation in the top right of my keyboard. Since I had a nice, curved, ergonomic keyboard, the stretch was much larger and more awkward than it should have been. I switched to a “normal” keyboard and the pain went away.
      My wrists do start to get a bit sore now when I am typing a lot of prose, but that’s not what I’m doing 90% of the time when I’m typing continuously.

    6. pancakes*

      Maybe a vertical mouse would be helpful? I’ve only seen them in ads, I haven’t tried one yet.

      1. Eyes Kiwami*

        I love my vertical mouse for wrist and finger pain. Downside is it can be less accurate or at least have a learning curve for precise clicking–working Excel and so on is no problem, but handwriting on a screenshot for example is much messier.

  87. Hazel*

    So firstly, I know the answer is usually ‘yep they sure can, this is the USA, and good luck if you get fired’. But I’m feeling pretty heated about a semi-sudden announcement email we received today at my call center. So I’m hoping for a little sanity check / solidarity?

    Apparently a month ago they wanted us that:
    On June 1st (2nd day after a holiday) instead of RSA for VPN login, we’ll be switching to Duo. This requires a downloaded app on a personal smart device.

    Not interested in crossing these streams. (I already tried to not text my direct manager when I’m late, but the Workforce system is bazoo so I ended up having to.)

    There’s mention they’ll start Duo on the 1st but will only remove RSA after Duo is used successfully for 2 weeks so THAT buys me time.

    I’m just really mad about the capitalist employer tentacles reaching into my personal details. I’m hardly paid a living wage, so it’s fully plausible not to have a smartphone!

    1. WellRed*

      So let Me preface but agreeing 1000% on the principle of the thing. However, if you have a smart phone, this is not a hill to die on. I use the duo app. It’s simple and way more convenient then our clunky vpn

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Ditto. Duo is painless and doesn’t get into personal info.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Duo didn’t require any special permissions to IT on my android phone. I don’t have work email on my phone due to restrictions that IT wanted for that app, but Duo was pretty inoffensive security wise. Our non-smart phone crowd has USB dongles that go with their badges they can insert instead of tapping on duo, maybe see if that’s an option for you.

      1. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

        they also have little fobs with a screen that will give you a code to punch in.

    3. ecnaseener*

      I don’t know if Duo has anything similar, but Symantec has a little dongle thing you can use instead.

      I only know this because I know one person at work who didn’t have a smartphone in march 2020 – no idea if IT would get a dongle for anyone who didn’t absolutely need it. Could be worth asking about, maybe say your phone is getting old and you don’t want to be locked out if it can’t connect or crashes. But yeah don’t die on this hill.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Ah, and if I’d refreshed before commenting I would’ve seen DisneyChannel confirming Duo does have the dongles!

    4. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      So I have had to use duo at 2 different places of work. The first job was at a call center but you had 2 options for the Duo response. Either your cell phone via app (which sucks if you don’t want that) or you could have it ring your desk phone and I think it either made you enter a code on your phone or on the computer. I don’t remember. However, this doesn’t work if you have to be logged into your computer to take the call (which we learned when they changed our phone system)

      At my current job we have the option of the app or a fob. I think the Fob gives you a code that you then type in on the computer. If you haven’t already I would ask if this would be an option. They should have a backup for you somehow. after all what are you supposed to do if something happens to your phone? Once at my old job my phone stopped working and we didn’t have public wifi so I had to use the desk phone.

      Good luck. there are lots of people who don’t necessarily want something on their phone that is tied to their employer.

    5. Hen in a Windstorm*

      So I totally went through this exact thing 5 years ago at my company. I was pretty annoyed for your exact reasons. And then I downloaded the Duo app… and it was fine. Like, all it does it send a popup and hit yes/accept and it goes away. That’s it. It’s also way less hassle than the RSA key.

    6. Part-time in a full-time world*

      100% agree that expecting everyone to have a smartphone is ridiculous and classist.

      However, an app on your phone will not access your personal details.

      Alternative: An iPod, while expensive, is not as expensive as a smartphone, and is fully compatible with all the same apps as on an iPhone and will work on WiFi.

    7. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      When my old org switched to Duo they had like 4 options for people to use, only one of which was the app. I think the other options were a call to their work phone, a list of rotating passcodes, and possibly a text.

      I used the app and then promptly deleted it when I left that job, but I’m also someone who frequently uses my phone for work.

    8. Sleepless in Cincinnati*

      My employer wants us to install some sort of authenticator app for Teams and I denied having a smart phone. And I’m 99% sure she’s seen me with my phone.

      Boundaries are incredibly important and it worth it to find a workaround to keep your job out of your personal life. And if they want to pay for a second phone for you, then why not?

      1. pancakes*

        Ask if they can give you a fob instead. All these apps typically do is generate a number for you to key in. They’re not accessing your contacts or anything like that.

    9. Alex*

      I totally agree, but I think this is the norm now. I had to buy a personal smart phone for this purpose. That was five years ago and even then it was assumed that everyone has a smart phone OF COURSE (I didn’t until then). And I’m not in any high paid field either.

    10. Choggy*

      They don’t have tokens they can supply instead? We use DUO and give employees without a company phone that option. Though more and more are adding it to their phone for convenience.

    11. Five after Midnight*

      I hear you – I refuse to give out my personal mobile number for work or install any work related apps on it. And, yes, unfortunately, the answer is “yep they sure can, this is the USA, etc…” – It effing sucks!
      As for the solutions?
      1. In our setup, for VPN access and SSO 2FA login Duo can call you on any number you provide (incl. landlines) because it asks for “press any button” response. So any touchtone phone will work. For webmail access, you can have it call you as above or have it send a text/sms to your mobile or VOIP number. Again, it doesn’t have to be a mobile – any number that can receive texts (Skype, RingCentral, GoogleVoice, etc.) will work.
      2. Get a cheapo device and a cheapo plan that you dedicate for work. I agree we should not be doing this and employers should be providing the tools for our jobs, but “this is the USA, etc” and these are the cards we’re dealt. Off-brand Android can be had for as little as $30. Monthly plans go as low as $15 with 2GB data and deals can be had, while prepaid plans may work out to be even cheaper per month.
      3. As others pointed out, give in and install the app. Per Duo website it requires permissions for Camera: Take Pictures and Video (for registration step only; can be disabled afterwards), Full Network Access, Prevent Phone from Sleeping, Receive Data from the Internet, Use Fingerprint Hardware, Control Vibration, View Network Connections. Of those Fingerprint hardware gives me pause, and View Network Connection specifically allows collection of IP address and location (network-based). So while the app claims not to collect any data, it still compromises your privacy (but then again so does using your mobile phone, period.)
      That’s all I got. I’ll keep resisting my job’s intrusion into my personal life as long as I can. Solidarity!

  88. OC*

    I am in the very fortunate position of being offered two graduate schemes in finance!

    Position A
    They expect the salary to be £25.5k or more (based on what was offered last year)
    Based in Edinburgh (rent £500 per month with commute of 30-60 mins, £800-£900 per month commute <30 mins)
    More prestigious firm
    Their HR is a mess

    Position B
    £29k salary
    Based in Oxford (rent probably £1000 per month minimum with commute 30-60 mins)
    Top 10 rather than top 5 firm
    Their HR is pretty great and they've been nicer to me throughout the whole interview process.
    Benefits are slightly less good.

    Basically, my dream is to take position B but in Edinburgh, or a similar city. They've already moved the location once – I originally applied to their Cardiff office – so before I make a final decision, I want to ask if there's any way they can move me to somewhere other than London, Oxford, Manchester, or Birmingham. Any suggestions on wording? I think this may require accepting a decrease in salary, which I'm fine with. However, depending on where they can offer, I might not accept even if they do let me move to another office.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      The first thing I would check (if you haven’t already) is if Firm B has offices in Edinburgh or similar cities you would like to live in. If they do, would you be willing to work for Firm B in Oxford for a year or two and then transfer to Edinburgh? It might be easier to ask about starting in Oxford and then transferring, but if that’s not of interest to you than it’s a moot suggestion.

      I don’t know about UK norms so my best crack at wording (adapt/discard as needed) is: I’m really interested in working for Firm B. I originally applied for a position at the Cardiff office–would it be possible for me to work there or does this work need to be done at the Oxford office?

      Then see what they say and if cost-of-living adjustment comes up during the conversation, let them know that you understand the salary may be adjusted based on the COL of the city you work in.

  89. Willa M*

    So I had my annual review recently. One of the items that came up was something that had previously been discussed with my 2nd level manager. It was a social concern that at the time felt like it was more of a hey, be mindful of this. When she brought it up, she seemed hesitant but err’d on the side of letting me know I might want to adjust my approach in a very narrow set of circumstances. My 2nd level manager let me know that it was more of a heads up than anything else and thought I would want to be aware so that it did not rise to the attention of any higher-ups by nipping it in the bud.

    I have my qualms with this entire situation which doesn’t help, but my real question is this: This comment showed up on my annual review! Now my department leader will absolutely see it. So instead of being offered the opportunity to fix something immediately, it’s more or less on my permanent record? I had to acknowledge the conversation, so now I worry this is set in stone and on my permanent record. This review write-up was done by my direct manager. So while I’m not averse to her being aware of any light correction I’ve received, she wasn’t there for the conversation in which I got the impression that it was more of a heads up rather than coaching, much less something that goes on my annual review! I am just flabbergasted. I was too shocked to say anything at the time, but I’m really regretting signing the meeting/review acknowledgement. (Note: This is explicitly not an acceptance)

    What should I do? I hate that something that is so minor (not a recurring issue, not work-quality related, and fixed IMMEDIATELY by me) is on my annual review when I was under what I thought was a very clear impression that it wouldn’t be. It’s never been brought up again by any of my leaders, so it’s not like it’s an ongoing issue.

    1. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      I’m a little confused by this, you say “but I’m really regretting signing the meeting/review acknowledgment.”

      Was the first conversation with your 2nd level manager just a conversation so you thought it was informal or was there paper that you had to sign? Or was what you signed your annual review?

      If when you talked with your 2nd level manager and you had to sign something as acknowledgment it’s more likely going to be in your review because it may be considered more of a disciplinary type of situation.
      I also wonder if this is coming from higher than your 2nd level manager since you say she seemed hesitant. Like maybe someone is making a big stink out of it.

      Whatever is going on I don’t think it would be a horrible idea to go back and talk with the manager and say you were surprised and confused why this was on the review and see if its going to reflect badly on you or what needs to be done. Even if for some reason they cannot remove it but they can note that this only happened once and after being talked to you corrected your behavior.

      1. Willa M*

        The first conversation with my 2nd level was informal – there was nothing to sign.

        What I signed was for my annual review – it’s much longer than this one bullet point that is nagging at me. It’s to sign that we had the conversation about the different categories for metrics.

        Thanks. I do really like my manager, but I think there are some other politics at play. I hate to assume… there are just other things in the water that make me suspicious. I think she’ll give me a straight answer. I have to make the suspicious part of my brain quiet down that they were having to reach to justify not giving me a very high marking in a category where I clearly hit it out of the park except for this one area.

    2. RagingADHD*

      The thing that I find surprising is that, assuming you were advised of this issue some time ago and self-corrected it, the improvement is not included in the review. Having the problem mentioned but not the change you made, leaves it sounding like this is an ongoing issue.

      That’s how I’d frame it in a follow-up question. “This is something I had a conversation about with X, and I immediately changed my approach to ensure that it didn’t happen again. Having it on the review makes me wonder if you are still seeing it ongoing? I would like to talk about this more to ensure I have in fact corrected it.”

      If they’re going to document something as a problem they should also document the solution.

  90. cobb salad*

    Resume writing question! I work in an industry (animation) where we are regularly given employee contracts. We aren’t contractors — we have the same benefits as employees it’s just that it is a fixed term based on a project length because studios often do not know what projects they will have next or if they’ll have a spot for you. It is very normal for people to be extended past their initial contract and also for them to leave before it is over. The contracts are built with this expectation in mind and have clauses about giving notice.

    For all of my past jobs, I left before the contract was over. In one case I had three months left and there was no new show coming up, another case I was going back to school, and in the third case the job was horrible and I was going to the company I am at now. This has also been because I tend to repeatedly be extended by a year indefinitely as studios want to keep me around, which is nice and all but then I’m forced to break the contract as waiting until it ends proves to be impossible as it never ends!

    I am in school to switch to an industry that is adjacent to animation but is not the same and does not use contracts like this. My question is how do I write this on my resume? I don’t really want to put “one-year x3 contract position” because… well I only stayed for 2.75 years. Or in the case of the last job, they had only given me two six month contracts and I stayed halfway through the second one. But I was worried not noting them as contract positions might make it look like I stayed for a very short time when in reality, every time I left I only had three months left on my existing contract at most.

    Any thoughts?? If it makes a difference, the stays were 2.75 years, 1.5 years, and about 9 months. I’ve been at my current job for about a year and a half and plan to stay until I graduate and am ready to switch industries fully.

    1. Hen in a Windstorm*

      I’m not sure why you think you need to write out the contract dates at all? Like, just put:

      XYZ Studio June 2018-September 2020
      JBR Studio September 2020-October 2021

      Even if you did say it was contract work, why would you ever add the specific dates of the contracts? That’s not really relevant information and you say it’s normal practice to leave.

  91. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

    Listen, I am a prison abolitionist, but I would like to make it a jailable offense for my boss to forward an email to 15+ people with the note “someone take care of this”.

    That… that isn’t how you do this. And by “this” I mean work, lead, organize, ensure something is completed, manage, delegate… None of it.

    1. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      Yeah, there’s just something about doing that sort of thing via email that just seems wrong. I could see if it was in a meeting and he says “I need someone to take X off my plate” or even in a teams message that says “Hey I need someone to volunteer to do X task.”

      1. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

        Right?? Also, I think the most critically frustrating part of it is that once she sends out the email, she assumes someone will take care of it. There is no follow up. Nobody replies all (except me, a normal person) saying “I’ll take care of this”. It is just launching a task into the ether and hoping it lands in someone’s hands!! Aughghgh!!!

        1. Can't think of a funny name*

          Why don’t you just not do it like everyone else and wait for her to ask about it. Maybe she’ll eventually learn she needs to assign things. Or try responding with, “Not it!” haha, kidding on that part, sorta.

          1. Dragon*

            The thing about that approach is that she may never learn to assign tasks. Meanwhile, nobody does the task until crunch time and then some unfortunate soul has to involve others to move mountains to get it done.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Now I can’t stop picturing Terence on Kim’s Convenience yelling, “You in the blue shirt, call 9-1-1!”

      When he knows all his coworker’s names. And they are all wearing blue shirts.

  92. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    You might be able to answer this with a boilerplate line in your cover letter, about looking to get out of an industry that works on limited-term employment contracts tied to projects, and into something that offers more opportunities for long-term growth and stability.

    2. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      For the last X years, I have worked with Blank company where we worked on various contracts that were limited term. I am looking for a position that offers more opportunities for long-term growth and stability.

      …
      then go into how you think the position you are applying for will meet the criteria and what you are excited about

  93. Advenella*

    My workplace is currently struggling with a vacation time/PTO situation. For context: I work on a medium-sized team (just under 50 team members) that work around the clock (shift work), 7 days a week. We’re a small part of a larger department, which is part of a much larger instutition. There’s instutitional PTO policy, of course, but our managers have the ability to draft their own policies (within reason) for better functionality for their teams. It was realized recently that our policy hadn’t been updated since before the current management team was in place, and they’ve asked the team to consider the policy and make any suggestions we may have within the next few weeks. Currently, we have something of a “first come, first serve” policy with PTO. You don’t necessarily have to have the PTO to request it (especially where it comes to future planning), but they have historically asked us to request it no more than 6 months ahead of time so the request doesn’t get lost. This tracking is done on paper and with calendars, not in our timekeeping system (requests into the timekeeping system only pertain to the current pay period for accountability and pay purposes). All of this is pretty standard for most workplaces I’ve worked at.

    The issue that has arisen that complicates these issues: We have a couple of team members that have intermittent FMLA. There have been lots of complaints about the use and potential abuse of intermittent FMLA, due to continuous coverage issues/short staffing. We’ve had meetings concerning this topic, including upper management bringing in an HR rep present to explain how intermittent FMLA works and how those jobs are protected. Where it comes into the PTO policy is that those with FMLA have purportedly used all their PTO bank hours when they need to utilize their intermittent FMLA, yet they are still able to request time off (unpaid days off, like vacation days), which then causes other team members to be denied days off due to staffing/coverage, causing more complaints. Management would like a one-size-fits-all solution to this issue, and they’d prefer to not handle it on a case-by-case basis for so many team members. I don’t know that there is one. I’m of the belief that there’s two types of PTO requests – acute (short-term, have the hours already) and long-term (future planning – think, international travel, or cruises, where you know far in advance that you’re going and are probably paying for it ahead of time), and you might be working up to accruing the hours for the long-term. Our current request form includes a “projected PTO hours” option for future planning, which I think works pretty well. They are discussing the idea of putting PTO requests on “hold” for some amount of time (they’ve floated everything from 72 hours to 30 days in advance of your request). Example: Fergus asks for September 15th but doesn’t have the time (but she may accrue it before that date), and then Jane also requests September 15th and she does have the hours, the time off will be granted to Jane if requested during the hold period.

    It all sounds complicated and frustrating. I’m perplexed as to how we can solve this, but I suspect it’s probably going to center around the amount of unpaid time off. The FMLA issue feels like a bit of a red herring, but it’s been the center of a lot of the complaints, which is why I mentioned it.

    If you’re willing to share, how does your workplace handle PTO/unpaid time off requests?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I don’t have direct experience in this, but I’ve worked with health systems. And this sounds a lot like a nursing staffing situation. There should be published studies out there of best practices for this kind of work that you might be able to crib from.

      1. Advenella*

        You’re very close – hospital, but not nursing. I’ll see if I can find those studies, though. Thanks!

    2. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      first of all: FMLA is separate from PTO. I think your coworkers are getting upset because they feel wronged because those who have FMLA are getting “extra” time off. I hope your HR and management shuts that down fast!

      Secondly, I think the problem is that they are letting people take time off when they don’t have any.
      I don’t quite understand how the PTO Works. Do you have a set amount that just accrues throughout the year? So for example we get 104 hours of vacation time at my place. Technically it accrues throughout the year but it shows available to us at the beginning of the year. So if someone wanted to take 13 days off in march they could, but wouldn’t be able to get anything later.

      Or is your PTO based on how many hours you work? So if you have worked extra hours you earn more pto and that’s why someone wouldnt have the PTO now but will in September?

      I think you should just have the policy that you get X amount of PTO and you can use it at any time. But after it is used up you cannot take planned time off unpaid unless for specific situations.

      I think a big problem is that it sounds like your management wants a blanket policy but its not always going to be that cut and dry. And they really need to take that FMLA piece and set it aside. I understand that it causes issues for coverage, and that sucks. But maybe management needs to look at something else.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Our office has people submit time off requests once a quarter. It is assumed that if you request time you’ll have the accruals to cover it, and can’t have unpaid time off except in very unusual circumstances.

      The management team reviews all of the requests in a batch, senior staff get priority over less senior staff if there’s a business need to refuse a request. (Although they do try to ask around to see if someone can be flexible on high-interest days). Requests are only refused if there’s not enough coverage.

      If anyone needs to adjust their requests (e.g., ask for another day off for whatever reason) that’s fine, as long as it doesn’t disrupt the doing of business. If someone is out for medical reasons, that’s a separate issue. If it’s a long term time out, that could affect future decisions about leave, but I don’t think anyone gets screwed out of already granted time off because of it.

      We’re union, and this process is covered in our contract, but it seems to work out pretty well.

      In your case it sounds like unpaid time off is an option even for non-FMLA reasons, which seems challenging. I understand that folks with FMLA issues may also need some vacation time even if they’ve exhausted their PTO accruals, but then there needs to be a solution for having enough staff to cover the actual FTE needs for the running of the department.

    4. Amtelope*

      If they’ve used all their PTO, why are they being allowed to take unpaid time off for reasons other than health issues (which presumably would be wrapped into the intermittent FMLA)? At my job, unpaid time off is so that you have some way to take sick days if you’re out of PTO. It’s not vacation time. If you used up your PTO, you don’t get to take vacation days until you earn some more PTO.

  94. FACS*

    Does anyone have advice about how to deal with people who repeatedly ask for advice and then ignore it or explain why it is wrong then come around again? For context, I run a niche consultancy. We have been doing this for 12 years. There is me, the office manager, and an assistant. Folks are fairly paid, good insurance and retirement, etc. We do well. About every 6 months someone wants to get coffee or go to lunch to talk about a similar model. The response is that it is too difficult or not feasible because…
    Someone just contacted me for the third time and I told them that if they had not listened before I doubted they would now. I am a woman as is all my staff so I do try to help. Yes, there is risk. Yes, it may not work. But why keep going back to the well? I feel badly saying no but it seems a pointless exercise. Reading over my lunch hour seems preferable. Any suggestion?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Are these potential clients, potential competitors, or your staff?

      1. FACS*

        They are other professionals who might want to open a consultancy in slightly different areas. Think Llama vs yak grooming. Structure is the same but the content of services is slightly different.

        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          Hm, you might just chalk this up mentally as networking time.

          Larry Niven has a saying: Not responsible for advice not taken. Ie, you shouldn’t feel any emotional buy-in or sense of responsibility when people ask for your advice and then ignore it. It’s the flip side of “I told you so”.

    2. PollyQ*

      Are you offering this advice for free? If so, I’d either stop entirely, or make it clear that you’ll only offer a single short meeting (~1hr) with general feedback, and only once. Repeat “customers” can start paying for your time. I suspect that once you do that, you’ll care less about whether they take your advice.

    3. RagingADHD*

      It sounds like they are not actually asking for advice. They want you do to some kind of favor for them or hire them for something, but they are really bad at asking.

    4. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      I agree with the others – I would offer some advice about the guilt. You are allowed to offer support to women in general as a value you hold. But you don’t have to do it in ever case to everyone who asks. Those are mutually exclusive.

  95. The Detective*

    Good news first which is that I accepted a job offer! I am so excited. I am mostly happy with my current position but due to pay issues, I started looking around. I was offered a position where I’d be making about 40k more than I do now. You can’t know everything about a situation before diving in, but I liked the people I met through the interview process and the work seems applicable to my skills and experiences plus very interesting.

    My concern is that my HR department will not provide guidance on when I vest in my retirement. My new position is in the process of doing all of their background stuff, so I’m not feeling pressured to declare a start date, but I need to nail down when I vest so that I am not leaving my money on the table. I’m not sure how I do this without setting off warning bells. All of the guidance in all of the documentation/handbooks/emails/brochures/everywhere is vague. It’s a requirement of a certain number of hours in a year, but I’m not hourly. Ideas?

    Let’s not even get into the fact that once I figure this piece of the puzzle out, how tacky I feel about leaving as soon as I am vested (whenever that may be – ugh!!!!)

      1. Decidedly Me*

        I’m curious about this, as well. I don’t see HR not telling you this information if you asked.

        1. The Detective*

          I haven’t actually put my notice in and I see this as a major red flag. I worry they’d mention something to my manager before I’m ready to put my notice in.

          1. Decidedly Me*

            I don’t think it’s the red flag you think it is. Understanding vesting schedules is just good financial practice – I’ve asked and been asked about this and it’s never been related to an impeding job switch.

    2. WellRed*

      Are you very near to where you think it’ll vest? Can you check with the financial company? For reference, I’m not fully vested until six years which I’m told is common (I know you said hours worked, but it’s probably similar?).

      1. The Detective*

        Very, very near. Ours is internally handled. It’d be something like asking Bank of America when my Bank of America account would vest, except on a much, much smaller scale so they actually know me.

    3. ThatGirl*

      if it’s a certain number of hours a year, it’s probably based on fulltime hours – 40 x 52. can you figure it out that way?

      1. The Detective*

        Fair enough. I think my real worry is being pushed out right before my vesting is official. And barring that, just the perceived tackiness of leaving immediately after vesting.

    4. RagingADHD*

      This is a routine question and I’m not sure why it would be a red flag or set off warning bells. HR is not interested in playing cloak and dagger with your boss. They are just trying to get through the day.

    5. BRR*

      Can you ask a coworker who tends to know this stuff or someone who Used to work at your company but is now at a different job?

      And for number of hours, most employers just use whatever your standard workweek is. For example, my employer calculates one day as seven hours regardless of how much or how little I work.

    6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      To bring up these kind of things with HR I’ve found it useful to have a “mortgage renewal” or “financial planner session” or some similar plausible reason coming up for why I need that detail…

  96. AnonymousWorkerBeeToday*

    How do you deal with a boss who is chaotic and not organised and who loses stuff like their phone, passwords, sim codes, and freaks out a ton on WhatsApp, including asking people late at night if they are in the office (it is 9pm on a Friday … no). They are perceived by upper management as chaotic, too busy, and disorganised (words directly from their boss to our admin one day at lunch). Many of the team are getting tired of dealing with their chaos. Any suggestions on how not to get sucked into the chaos but also not be checked out and thus targeted? This boss also does not at all take any feedback well so … not sure what to do. If anything?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      All you can do is make sure that you CYA.

      Have all of your ducks in a row. Never leave for the day without getting your stuff filed away. Keep careful notes of instructions from your boss, so he can’t argue that he said something else.

      2. Tabby Baltimore*

        CYA activities should also include making and saving screenshots of anything with visual content. (e..g, graphs, charts, spreadsheet excerpts). And make sure it’s the WHOLE screen (to include any date/time information in a corner). You may want to even consider password-protecting that file of “stuff” if you have to use a shared drive that your boss also has access to.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      If you can, be unreachable outside of work hours. Mute the WhatsApp thread so you don’t get dragged into your boss’s chaos at 9pm on a Friday. Upper management knows your boss is the problem, so you don’t look bad by refusing to bail out your boss.

      During the workday, is there any information you can keep that will make your life easier? Passwords and sim codes maybe? So when your boss runs out of their office yelling “I forgot the sim code for XYZ” you can calmly say “*****” and get back to your work. Won’t help for things like losing their phone, and isn’t great for security purposes to know all of your boss’s passwords but it might make your day a little calmer.

      1. AnonymousWorkerBeeToday*

        I do not want to know all this as I am not their admin, nor do I want to be, but it is a smart strategy I can see the value in….but yeah. will ruminate on this.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          Yeah, it’s definitely a tricky situation because the more you know, the more your boss will depend on you and drag you into their drama. Maybe instead you can settle on a few stock phrases that acknowledge your boss is in a tizzy but doesn’t make it your responsibility? Something along the lines of “sorry to hear you lost your phone again! Anyways, I need to get back to my deliverables.”

        2. Dragon*

          Sometimes knowing and sharing the boss’s passwords is a practical necessity. For example, in federal court a document has to be filed with the electronic filing credentials of the attorney signing the document. Very often, the signer or even her assistant is not the one doing the filing.

          OTOH, knowing the boss’s passwords can work only up to a point. There’s a state court system which implemented two-factor authentication for financial transactions on its website. So unless the attorney is either in the office or very good about forwarding messages, she can’t ask her assistant something like, “Hey, would you renew my bar dues online for me?”

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I have two types of chaotic bosses: likeable and dislikeable.

      The likeable ones are actually tougher because I actually want to help them. If your boss is basically likeable AND receptive you can try making suggestions for the recurring problems. Expect nothing to change. If you start getting emotionally involved such as worried, angry, whatever, then step back because you have gotten too involved. Understand that until the boss chooses a different approach to work (even to life) there won’t be any big miracles.

      The dislikeable bosses… let the cookies crumble. What will be will be. If you try to help this ornery, cantankerous person it will only BITE you. Don’t bother.

    4. pancakes*

      Can you or someone in IT set them up with a password manager? That is an app or a plug-in. Losing passwords should be a non-issue after that.

    5. pancakes*

      Also, yes to muting their number(s) after a certain hour, assuming late coverage isn’t part of your job.

  97. Question for a criminal lawyer*

    Hi everyone –

    I am hoping that somebody can help me out with a problem we are having. My husband has been falsely accused of a crime that theoretically happened about a year ago. This is something that he would never do and he is beside himself with these accusations, which call into question his professional behavior.
    We has a set of lawyers and we have paid them a hefty retainer. They have told him that they will let him know if anything happens. The last time we heard from them was in April, when my husband emailed them with a piece of knowledge that shows he didn’t have access to the location where the crime was theoretically committed. They responded positively, thanking him for the information, so I think they are willing to communicate with us.
    My question is this: is it okay for us to contact them occasionally to see if they have any additional information? We are hoping to go out of the state for a couple of weeks, and my husband is hesitant to leave in case something comes up. They contact us via email and his phone number (which would go with us). I think we all could use a break, and I think it would do all of us a lot of good.
    Thank you in advance!

    1. WellRed*

      Take the break. The wheels of justice turn slow, they can reach you if they need to and I’m assuming every time you reach out they charge it against the retainer.

    2. Lynn Whitehat*

      IANAL, but I have been through this before. Do you know the basis for the charges? Like what specifically he is accused of doing? e.g. “breaking into 123 Elm St on the night of February 23rd and stealing their piano”. Do the lawyers have everything you have or can get demonstrating he didn’t commit the crime? If so, there’s probably nothing to do but wait. Eventually either the police will drop the charges, or a trial date will be set.

      They’re probably not contacting you because there’s nothing to report, and they’d have to charge you for the time. You can contact them to double-check; you’re the client and it’s your money. If they can reach you by phone wherever you’re going, personally I wouldn’t want to spend the money though.

    3. RagingADHD*

      If they are your lawyers and they work for you, of course they are willing to communicate with you — they are in fact *obligated* to do so. A good lawyer will minimize contact when there is nothing to report because it would increase your fees.

      If you want a status update, call them. If you want to know whether it’s fine to go out of town, call them. Just be aware that your retainer is getting burned up a little bit every time they respond to something, that’s all. It’s up to you how much communication you want to feel is worth it for your peace of mind.

      Some clients want an update call every week, whether anything happens or not. That’s their prerogative, but a good attorney isn’t going to call you proactively if there’s no news.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      If it’s a crime there should be papers showing the charges and there should be a date to appear in court.

      Is this just someone’s accusation and they have not gone to the police?

      1. RagingADHD*

        If the cops are investigating and haven’t brought charges yet, there’s not going to be a court date yet.

    5. Question for a criminal lawyer*

      Thank you for the advice. No formal charges – I think everything will eventually be dropped. The lawyers have asked my husband to not discuss what is happening with anyone, so I have been intentionally vague.
      My husband has had to go on anxiety meds because of this.I really think he needs a break, so I will push our vacation.

  98. Froodle*

    Part of my job at a utility company involves allocating work to meter readers on a daily basis.

    First thing every morning, I send out three different emails: one to various in-office teams saying that the schedule for the next working day is closed, one to all meter readers telling them what jobs they’ve got on for the next working day, and one to the office teams and the meter readers specifically detailing any properties that are getting their energy supply cut off, why we’re doing it and which meter reader will be attending.

    This means that every meter reader who is working on a particular day has two emails that ensure he knows exactly what every other meter working that day is doing. There’s nothing secret or underhanded or hidden about it; it’s all laid out in black and white, timestamped and signed by me.

    On Wednesday one of the meter readers came into the office, stood in the middle of the room and loudly announced, “I hope I can say this without anyone taking this personally, but I thought the work was supposed to be shared out equally. D (another meter reader) has been getting the cutoffs for the last five weeks.”

    This is not true. Because of the emails, I can prove that it’s not true, and I can prove that he had access to information that proved it’s not true, so he either lied or didn’t bother checking his information before grandstanding and trying to humiliate me in the middle of the office in front of my entire department.

    I told him that I was sorry he wasn’t happy, that I was trying my best and that he should go and talk to our supervisor about an alternate distribution of work. He got defensive, raised his voice, and used the Schrodinger’s Dipshit shield of plausible deniability with “I said not to take it personally!”

    He stomps off yelling that “I’ll bring it up with (Supervisor), then!”, and I email Supervisor the scheduled work from the start of May onwards, which demonstrates that his complaint about D getting the cutoffs for five weeks wasn’t accurate, along with a brief explainer for why I’d split it like that.

    Supervisor pulls me aside and tells me a) Meter Reader is wrong and B) Meter Reader’s behaviour is out of pocket. Two of the other meter readers send me emails thanking me for how I organise and distribute the work,and how I communicate with them.

    I know I’ve not done anything wrong. I know I’ve got the support of my supervisor and co-workers.

    But I am still so upset. I cried on and off for most of the evening after it happened. He was so mean, so smug, and he went out of his way to humiliate me in front of everyone, and all for no reason. He could have checked his facts and realised he had it wrong. He could have responded to any one of the twice daily emails I sent out and said he was unhappy with the distribution. But he chose to berate me and make me look incompetent in front of my co-workers, about something I never even did!

    I shouldn’t care this much, or even at all, but it’s genuinely rattled me. It’s so pointless and shitty. I didn’t deserve it,and I’m so mad.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      No, you didn’t deserve this and this is totally a him issue and not a you one. I’m sorry this happened and I understand why you feel the way you do about it. Please do keep reminding yourself that you did nothing wrong, that people have your back, and reread the emails from the other meter readers. Hugs!

      As an aside, I’m curious why cut offs seem to be the better task? It seems like shutting off someone’s power wouldn’t be something you’d want (unless these are just move out cut offs)

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      “He was so mean, so smug, and he went out of his way to humiliate me in front of everyone, and all for no reason.”

      From your perspective, he had no reason. From his, he did. He thought he could get away with browbeating you (which I think you realized was a Schrodinger’s Dipshiat move). I don’t know what he though he could get out of it, but he obviously gets his jollies from it somehow.

      So the silver lining is now you know for sure he’s a jerk. And that means you don’t have to care either way what he says or how he behaves. He may as well just be a malfunctioning smoke alarm as far as you’re concerned.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      You have every right to be upset! I know and you know (and your supervisor and the other meter readers know) that you are in the right here. You’re not upset because you did anything wrong but because (in you own words):

      He was so mean, so smug, and he went out of his way to humiliate me in front of everyone

      People are upset and rattled when someone is mean to them, doubly so when they don’t deserve it (as you don’t). All this to say, you are very human for reacting the way you did. I’m sorry that meter reader was an ass, and crying because he yelled at you is no sign of weakness on your part.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Ask your supervisor if this behavior will happen again and if it does how will this behavior be stopped.

      I see two failures here. The first is the guy himself.
      The second one is the supervisor.
      That supervisor should have made him apologize or informed him his behavior was unacceptable and not to happen again.

      I doubt very much your cohorts see you as incompetent. Matter of fact, they are probably saying, “How did she even deal with that AH?” Our coworkers aren’t stupid, they know BS when they see it.

    5. SofiaDeo*

      Please try not to let people unhappy with their life, affect yours. Good for you for not getting sucked into his drama. I bet your co-workers are admiring you for how cooly you handled that turd bucket.

      We’re all stressed and rattled. I hope the good cry relieved some of it. Of course it’s pointless and shitty, and you didn’t deserve it. Hopefully this toddler is done throwing temper tantrums and trying to start fights at work for awhile.

      If it continues, (random outbursts into a room full of people) ignore him if possible and report it. If he tries to engage you specifically and won’t be ignored, get up and leave the room. He sounds like he wants to pick a fight with someone, don’t give him what he wants.

  99. Anonymo*

    How much notice is appropriate to give for a PTO request for a 1wk vacation? One of my coworkers gave a month’s notice for a week off to attend a family commitment out of state, and I think our boss felt that was too short. My coworker wasn’t told so directly, but my boss mentioned it bitterly to a group of our coworkers in a work social event where my coworker wasn’t present. I’m pretty new to the working world, so I don’t know how much notice is normally appropriate for vacation requests like that. Our jobs are project-oriented, so in general my coworker’s absence during that week does not create more work for myself or our other coworkers—coworker is responsible for figuring out how to manage her deliverables around the absence.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      The general rule of thumb I use for the project-oriented job I’m in is roughly 1 weeks notice per day of vacation. I think one months notice for a week of vacation is usually fine, but if your boss has a different standard they should tell their whole team so you all know what the expectations are. In your shoes, I would ask your boss “how much notice do you want me to give for vacations?” so your boss isn’t complaining about you behind your back in the future.

      (Also, keep an eye out for other ways your boss may be a bad manager. It doesn’t bode well that they didn’t address expectations around vacation time directly with your coworker.)

      1. Anonymo*

        Thanks, that rule of thumb is helpful. I agree that a conversation with Boss would be the best way to go, although I’m also on my way out of this job soon and don’t anticipate using any more PTO before I leave. About your note with how Boss went about addressing expectations… I do agree, and it’s part of why I’m excited to move on. Enough things have been said behind my back or my coworkers’ backs by the senior people at current job to various audiences that I’m hoping I can reset my understanding of professional communication by the time I start my new job.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      As a manager, I ask my team for as much notice as they can give me, but since we need our coverage on more of a general level (that is, I can have x many people off per day, but it doesn’t much matter who they are because they’re all working out of the same general bucket), if someone decides to cut it last minute on their two week request, they’re just taking the risk that other people will already have taken those days off because we go first-come-first-serve except at certain times of the year – days before and after Thanksgiving/Christmas, mostly, (For those, I give them a deadline for request submitting, but I won’t approve anything until everyone’s had a chance to get their request in, and then I look at who was off last year and do the juggling.) have asked them specifically to give me as much notice as possible for week-or-more chunks during the summer, even if they can just give me “a week sometime in July” to start with. Ideally, my goal is to work with my team so that I never have to turn down a PTO request. (I’ve been successful so far!)

      But especially if nobody else has to pick up slack for the coworker, I think your boss is being a little precious.

    3. Alexis Rosay*

      It depends a lot on the workflow. Four weeks probably isn’t enough for a week’s vacation if it’s going to fall at a crunch time when other people are going to be scrambling to cover for you. I’ve also seen people give only a few days notice to take a week off at my last job when they knew the week off was going to fall during a major lull in business (business was very seasonal and crunch/quiet times were predictable).

      However, given what you said about project-based work, I’d say 4 weeks is adequate.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Why not just ask the boss how much lead time he would like you to give?

      1. PollyQ*

        This is the right answer. It doesn’t really matter what the “accepted” rule of thumb is if it doesn’t conform to what boss wants.

        1. Anonymo*

          I asked this question because I’m moving on from this job and this boss very soon—and I also have a sense that several of my boss’s expectations around working norms are pretty unreasonable even within our field (All six of my long-term projects for my last month are high-priority, and my working group has been in crunch-mode since at least December, leaving all of us just about burned out). I of course want to ask my next boss about expectations like these, but given that I’m a young professional with experience limited to only a couple non-student professional jobs, I also wanted to get a sense of what people in other project-based jobs have had as a standard.

    5. CallTheBagelShop*

      In my industry (software/technology), 4 weeks notice is sufficient to ask for 1 week off. Only exception I can think of is that it might be hard to get the time off if it’s crunch time for you or your team.

  100. WellRed*

    I’m going to ignore your actual question in favor of asking you one. Why are you, a software engineer, cold emailing or doing any thing else related to sales?

  101. Help*

    I am in need of some advice on how to handle a work situation. At my work they hired a coworker who had no experience in our field. I am not her manager or supervisor but obviously have the most experience and my work is expecting me to make sure she is getting the help and training that she needs and report any issues. One issue is that she gets very nervous when any new task is assigned to her which is a problem as I basically have to build her self esteem so that she can do the task. Recently she was assigned a project part of which was to review whether or not the paperwork submitted was correct. She happened to mention it to me and said oh yeah it’s fine because the person who did it is someone who had done this kind of thing for twenty years why would it be wrong. Of course I explained to her that she still needs to look at it and when I looked at it I noticed a problem right away that was very obvious (the instructions say the line had to equal y but the paperwork said the line equals x) this has happened on more then one occasion and I’m not sure how to handle it. I know I need to stop giving her the answers and make her think things through things herself to not be a robot but I’m not sure if I should say something to someone as she’s not even reading directions which is obviously causing problems. Any advise on how to handle works be great. This is on top of the fact that she made a massive error on one major item and somehow caused a glitch in another. She has a rocky relationship with our supervisor because he’s a jerk but that is causing her not to discuss these issues and not I’m not sure what to do. My work knows he’s a jerk as that has been discussed many times but nothing has come of it. Not sure if I should go to HR and tell them that because he’s a jerk she will not talk to him about issues and then go to him and talk to him. I feel stuck because if I say anything in the wrong way that could cause our relationship to sour on the other hand I can’t let this just sit.

    1. SomebodyElse*

      I feel like there’s a lot to unpack here, I’ll give a go :)

      1. At my work they hired a coworker who had no experience in our field.
      -Does she have relevant experience from other fields? Depending on the level of the job it’s ok to not have any experience. Most people have started jobs where they don’t have direct experience. It may mean a little more training but she’s not bad or wrong because she’s learning.

      2.One issue is that she gets very nervous when any new task is assigned to her which is a problem as I basically have to build her self esteem so that she can do the task.
      -I would say stop worrying about her self esteem. As long as you are not actively berating her, it’s ok to not have to build her up in every interaction. I mean, don’t become an emotionless robot with her but modulate your interactions to whatever your normal tone is with anyone else.

      2. oh yeah it’s fine because the person who did it is someone who had done this kind of thing for twenty years why would it be wrong.
      -Be careful about this. You kind of set her up (unintentionally I’m sure) that the person who submitted the whatever knows what they are doing and doesn’t make mistakes. Clearly that isn’t the case (see #3), but even if it was, it’s hard as new person (even if they know what they are doing) to feel comfortable correcting someone with a lot of experience and who their trainer just told them they’ve been doing something for 20 years. It’s very likely she noticed the mistake but didn’t say anything because she figures that person knew better or had a reason that she doesn’t know. Encourage her to be comfortable to ask if something doesn’t look right no matter who it comes from.

      3. I noticed a problem right away that was very obvious (the instructions say the line had to equal y but the paperwork said the line equals x) this has happened on more then one occasion and I’m not sure how to handle it. I know I need to stop giving her the answers and make her think things through things herself to not be a robot but I’m not sure if I should say something to someone as she’s not even reading directions which is obviously causing problems.

      -To answer your question here’s a technique to try assuming your training has been thorough to the this point. Next time have her do the thing and then you look it over. Instead of telling her what she missed or did wrong let her know that something was missed or is still wrong. Then point back to the bits in the training that cover the mistake and ask her to take a stab at finding the issue herself. Keep doing this, you will start to see if she’s truly making mistakes or if she’s seeing things but making a judgement call that is incorrect or if there is a hole in the training or a hole in the understanding of the training

      To the rest, it sounds actually pretty normal (except for the jerk boss). New people make mistakes and most learn from them. You didn’t mention how long this has been going on, but if it’s in the first 3-9 months then I’d say it’s just probably nerves and shaky judgement. But here’s the other thing, sadly this may not be a you problem to fix. It doesn’t sound like a good fit for her due to the boss. And sadly you’ll likely be frustrated with her too (This is not a judgy statement, you obviously care enough to go to HR about your boss and the fact that it’s contributing to her not thriving, but being in the middle will get old for you and sounds like it already has).

      It’s ok to step back a little bit and let her sort it out or your boss to sort it out. Hopefully some of this helps, it’s a bit hard to give advice on this one because of all of the moving parts.

    3. PollyQ*

      This may not work with a jerky boss, but have you tried the old standby, “Hey boss, how should I handle it when co-worker does X, Y, or Z?” technique? After all, he’s the boss, he needs to have the information that she isn’t doing her job very well. I would DEFINITELY NOT go to HR with any of this. It’s not really their area, and I see zero benefit in your inserting yourself in the middle of whatever work relationship issues boss & co-worker are having.

  102. Anon for this :)*

    So, I kind of accidentally found myself with a job offer in a different industry that I am now torn over. Would anyone mind sharing your thoughts, especially if you have left academia for industry? New Job means leaving teaching for an industry related to what I teach. The pros are a lot more money, better benefits & options for advancement, and (hopefully) more maturity in the people I would interact with on a daily basis. The cons are regular, required overseas moves at a time in life when I am really enjoying things like being near my family, homemaking, and raising my dogs, and when I would like to find a permanent partner. That said, “near my family” is still a full day’s drive away, and New Job not only supports regular visits to home countries, it also has future transfer options a stone’s throw from said family (albeit at a lower rate of pay).

    Both types of work are interesting and worthwhile, but Current Industry has extremely limited scope for raises/advancement (think: not even a good history with COLA). I worked in New Industry years ago and enjoyed it, though I’m not sure how good I was at my jobs. That might be because I was a callow youth, but it might be because of a mental health disorder that I have. Academia’s schedule seems to help with some aspects of the disease, but then the pressure to always be working 110% during the semester is perhaps not so good for other aspects of the disease. If I took the job and the health issue reared its head, I’m worried that I’d find myself amongst the wolves. It’s unlikely I could return to academia if so. Plus, I’ve had over almost twenty years to develop coping methods for my current industry. What do you think? How would you go about deciding if you were me? Thank you.

    1. By Golly*

      well, I’m having a really crappy “get out of academia now” kind of week, so I’d say do that. But in reality…I think the regular moves to other countries part sounds like the biggest factor, so you just have to decide if you are willing to do that. what if you meet a long term partner in another country? are you able to request longer term appointments to one country if it is not home country? What happens if you find you hate it and want to change again? Do you have other paths (it sounds like back to Academia is out)? (BTW–now super curious about what field it is…because this is all so intriguing.)

      1. Anon for this :)*

        My research already involves other countries, so this isn’t new so much as what I’ve been doing for years and was hoping to do for shorter terms and in more comfortable circumstances… half of which I’d get. I think I’d be most likely to meet another expat partner, so they could come back pretty easily, and I would be able to transition to other jobs in New Industry pretty easily. That’s one of the benefits of the job; it’s a nice bridge from academia to industry positions.

        I was just reading your post and didn’t get a sense of academia at all! It would be one thing to have your boss’ name (or really, “higher ranking title”) put in front of yours on a project, but dropping yours? If you’re a professor, that’s wildly inappropriate. Even if you’re staff, that’s still not the sort of thing you hear about. I did wonder whether it was the grandboss that told him to do it, which might explain why it happened so oddly.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      It could be me, but once I leave an arena I don’t go back. There are reasons why you left and those reasons are probably still in place.

      Encourage yourself that Current Job and Potential Job are not the only two jobs left on earth. You got away from the old arena for reasons. Your current arena has drawbacks, which is okay to deal with and want to move on from.
      Try to avoid the idea of going back to something because it is familiar. That’s not enough to make you stay put once you get there. You have grown and developed since the last time you moved arenas. This time you can pick something even more suited to you and it can be different from the previous two.

  103. By Golly*

    So, I’ve had a rough week. Last Friday my boss essentially took my name off of a completed project, put his name on it, and asserted that “this is the way it is going to be from now on.” He did this all after the fact. Like, literally, project (a proposal) was done, going through administrative processes and he STOPPED THE PROCESS to have it re-started with his name on it. Without speaking to me about it. He had not been at all involved in a single step of the process except that during our bi-monthly meetings I said “I’m starting to re-negotiate X.” and he said something like “ok.” Anyhow, all kinds of machinations ensued…I called all of my contacts and advisors and mentors and asked what to do, I finally got a meeting with my grand-boss. Who basically said “Yep. Boss gets to do this because I said so. You two need to communicate better.” Boss and I were supposed to have a meeting today. he cancelled it because he “needs time to digest and fully prepare” for a change HE MADE WITH NO NOTICE. So I responded saying “I have to say that I’m disappointed and frustrated. I would expect that making this kind of change would have come with some sort of planning beforehand so that you could be prepared for these discussions.” Was that a mistake? (I also included my availability for the week he is suggesting meeting… but that was boring.) Any other ideas on how to approach this? Do I go back to grand boss and say “look, you said we need to communicate better, but this guy is not holding up his end of the bargain.” FWIW, boss is generally known to be a politician out for only himself, but grandboss seems to like him more than other folks.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Is this an “eat what you kill” kind of organization? So if he puts his name on the proposal, and if you win the work, then he gets a better bonus out of it? If so, then that’s the nature of your company (and possibly your industry) and I don’t know that there’s anything you can do, other than playing the political game better than he does.

      1. By Golly*

        it’s academia. Everyone is telling me that no, everyone who reviews his tenure profile will know he has no expertise in your field and projects, so claiming them as his own is useless. He’s just being an a**. But he’s doing it, and I’m just screwed.

        1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

          Is it a publication? Can you ask to have your name included as a co author at least?

          Can you ask the grand boss what the rationale is for him getting to take the credit for a project he had no input or contribution into?

    2. ferrina*

      If he’s a politician and grandboss likes it, there’s nothing you can do. You may be able to play politics better than him, but that’s a dangerous game (politicians don’t take it nicely when their underlings play their game- ask me how I know).
      You can also be scrupulously clear about what’s happening (focusing on stating facts), and see what happens. But if Grandboss knows the facts and is fine with it, this may just be the way it’s going to be (which is ridiculous and awful practice, but there it is)

    3. Jobbyjob*

      If it’s a patent and the project was his original idea, that’s how this works. It’s the person with the idea that owns the patent not the person executing the work.

  104. Testing the waters*

    How do you approach an interview when you’re pretty sure you don’t plan to leave your current job?

    Context: I’ve been at my current job 1.25 years and really like it — great culture, very good pay, room to learn and grow, etc. However, this is a moment when companies are advertising for my niche role way more than they have in the past, and I always casually keep an eye on what’s available. One job ad was such a good fit that I threw my hat in just to see what would happen, and now I have a phone interview next week!

    If I were truly job-searching, I’d be interested in this position, but I doubt it will tempt me to leave where I am (I’m less keen on the company, my current salary is at the top of the pay band, etc.) I know it never hurts to find out more, but I feel like I’m just wasting their time. Thoughts on how to approach this interview? Focus on asking lots of questions? Be transparent that I’m not dying to leave where I am but just curious to learn about Interview Co?

    1. ferrina*

      You’re interviewing for a reason, right? What is it? Are you looking to learn more about what they’re offering before you turn it down completely? If so, be honest about your salary requirements and ask a lot of questions to see if this role is the right fit for you. If you already know that the answer is no regardless of what they say, then yes, that is wasting their time.

    2. Happy*

      I would approach is as any other interview because hey you never know. I wouldn’t let them know your not dying to leave and hone in on how this is your ideal job and see how it goes

    3. Cordelia*

      if there’s no possibility that you will take the job, then yes, you are just wasting their time. But assuming you’re not doing that – what might you hear at the interview that would in fact make you consider the job? Pay, conditions, benefits, training opportunities, flexible working, development potential, etc. – figure out beforehand what that would be, and focus your questions around that. Why are you less keen on the company, and is there something they could tell you that would change your views on them?
      Bear in mind they are investing time into you by interviewing you, even more so if you continue past the phone interview stage – is your field so small that, if you turn this job down but want a different role with them at some future date, they will remember you as the time waster and look negatively on your application?

  105. Bright Wings*

    Advice on how to deal with needing positive reinforcement when it’s just… not an option?

    I do volunteer work for an organization where the culture, at least in my section, is, ah, lax. You need to do what you’re responsible for in a timely manner, unless you have something else going on in your life, or one of your other volunteer responsibilities came up, or you forgot for a few months, or you don’t want to. The solution is that a) all major tasks are handled by teams, and b) if another team doesn’t deal with their tasks for a month, and you’re aware of those tasks (a lot of our teams are “adjacent” and deal with overlapping issues, so we’re all aware of what the other ones are doing), you do their tasks for them. (This has not resulted in all our clients vanishing because it’s not an option. We have a regional monopoly on the service we provide. It’s not a life-essential service or anything, it’s basically recreational, but it’s important to a lot of people.)

    I just joined a few months ago. I’ve been a client of this organization for a long time, and I am so excited and happy to finally get a chance to contribute! And so I do a lot of stuff. I’m doing all the tasks my teams are supposed to do, since no one else on my teams does them! I’m doing all the tasks that our adjacent teams are supposed to do but it’s been a month! Or several! Our clients are not happy about this, but like I said, regional monopoly, they don’t have a choice; honestly, I do a lot of this because I feel bad for them.

    And all I’m getting for this is messages about how I handled this team’s tasks wrong according to their own personal unpublished style guide, or how I should do a task in the way a different team’s lead prefers instead of the way I prefer, or how there was a typo in one of fifty things I sent out. There is no “congratulations, you did good!” or even “that must have been lots of work!”, just an endless parade of minor screwups on stuff no one else cared enough to deal with. And from what I can see, I will never be able to stop screwing up, because I just have no way of knowing most of these things. And if I stop doing the work, that’s bad for the clients.

    How do I keep motivation going? I need some sort of positive reinforcement, something to tell me people are noticing how much work I’m doing and appreciating it, and it’s just not there.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Typically when people treat me this shabby, I am at least collecting a paycheck.

      This is way out beyond needing positive reinforcement.

      Pretend for a moment this was a paying job. You should be having an ah-ha moment where this story changes to being about other people’s bs. You have got slackers, information hoarders and bad management. You have a lot of bs going on here.

      Either call them out on it or quit. This has very little to do with positive reinforcement and more to do with having a functioning, effective group.

    2. PollyQ*

      Walk away. There is no shortage of volunteer opportunities to help needy causes where your work will be appreciated.

  106. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

    My employer is working to become an anti-racist organization. This will start with one-on-one interviews of all staff by an outside organization. What type of questions will be asked? How honest should I be? What comes after the interviews?

    In case it makes a difference, the organization is a nonprofit with fewer than 15 employees. It is led by a man of color, but most senior managers are white women. The remaining staff are women of color. Our organization is focused on workforce development and equity in healthcare.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Hmm. How honest to be? Start with being the most honest with yourself. Be brutally honest to you. Work on what you need to fix inside you. You can start there and build outward.

      I took a bias training through the state. Their punchline was we all have biases. We all have predetermined “notions” about people. So if the interviewers are well-versed in their topic they already know that almost off of us have something we can work on and alter.

    2. ferrina*

      The type of questions could vary, but will likely be about your experiences at the organization. You get to decide how honest you feel safe being- this is tricky because some outside consultants will absolutely not disclose anything specific, most will try but may drop identifying details, and a few will even share specifics with leadership. I’d be honest but not necessarily name names (unless there is someone that seriously needs to be named).

      What comes next is likely that the outside organization will bring the findings to your leadership. This will be broad takeaways, like “staff like the senior managers individually, but feel uncomfortable that it is all white women and would like to see more diversity in the upper ranks (not just the CEO/ED)” It (usually) won’t contain identifying details, but rather will have themes. The outside org will likely have recommendations based on these interviews, such as practices that can change, programs and opportunities for staff, recruitment changes, etc.

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Don’t name names (if there are individuals who are a problem) but if there are org-wide policies that they could/should institute, or remove, or enforce better, stick to suggestions more than criticism.

  107. Aglaia761*

    Pretty sure I need to get over myself, but wanted throw this out to you all for thoughts

    We’re currently hiring for a couple of positions and so have been in contact with applicants to confirm receipt of resume’s…etc

    So on Wednesday..a meeting popped up on my calendar. It was one of the applicants who decided to have a 1 hour meeting with me. I declined nicely…but that left a really bad taste in my mouth, but I can’t quite articulate why. I feel like I’m more annoyed about it than I need to be

    1. Not So NewReader*

      This is why I don’t like people picking meeting dates for me. They don’t know when not to.

      How does this person have access to your calendar? Does the ad say what will happen after they apply, such as “apply at [whatever], we will be contacting those chosen for an interview”.

      People do peopley things. Sometimes the best we can do is change or modify what we ourselves are doing to get the desired response.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Well, that’s pushy. Sounds like the digital version of “just march in there and ask to speak to the hiring manager in person! Look ’em in the eye and give ’em a firm handshake!”

    3. ferrina*

      That’s so wildly outside the norms. That’s really not a good way to introduce yourself to someone.
      Also….an hour? Seriously? For an intro meeting? Yep, they really don’t know what’s going on (or they have no respect for other people’s time. or both.)

    4. Decidedly Me*

      How were they able to book a 1 hour meeting with you? Calendar in your signature?

    5. CW*

      I think the applicant should have asked you first or provide a list of times available. After all, you may not have been available at the time requested. So it is normal to feel annoyed. I would be as well.

      Still, the applicant scheduling a meeting? I would normally think it is the other way around. Either the applicant was being a little to aggressive, or just clueless. Normally, the employer would schedule the meetings. At least that was the way it always was when I was job searching. I never actually scheduled anything; the employer always did.

  108. Rosy*

    I’m feeling a little slighted by our yearly company awards and wondering if I should say something or let it go. My company gave out a handful of awards to employees who went above and beyond in the last year. Each award came with a monetary bonus. To be clear, I felt all of the recipients deserved the awards. One category was for “Best Team”, and I work very closely with one of the two teams that was awarded; my work is essential to their success and they lean on me heavily. Prior to my position existing they were doing what I do themselves but without my specific expertise (i.e. I am a trained teapot designer with 20+ years experience and they are in teapot sales and services). But because I technically report to another boss, I am not officially a team member; my position is such that I work with multiple teams in the same capacity and I could see this happening in the future with another team I work closely with. I don’t care about the recognition, but each of the other 7 team members got $1k each in bonus, which would have been nice to have. Do I say anything to my boss about this? Or do I just let it go?

    1. Decidedly Me*

      Let it go. I understand feeling bummed about this, but I don’t think it’s a personal slight. There are a LOT of people outside of teams that help teams succeed. They have to draw the line somewhere and people that are officially on that team is a very reasonable way to do that.

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      You might point this out to your boss and see if you might be eligible for a bonus based on your help to this team — you might not get the full $1k though. It’s probably best to let the public recognition part of it go. Ideally, the team you help should recognize you in some way. If they have any sort of celebratory lunch, for example, they should invite you.

    3. S*

      If you are on a different team that is eligible, let it go. It sucks but maybe it’ll be your teams turn soon and someone else will have been instrumental and will miss out. Then that’s just how it works when they’re not rewarding everyone, the line has to be drawn somewhere. If you’re not on a team and are helping others succeed, then I’d bring it up—if only for equity’s sake.

    4. Tabby Baltimore*

      I don’t think you should let this go. I *do* think you should talk to your boss about it. One way to frame the problem is “When a team I’ve supported gets a bonus, what can we do in the future to make me eligible to receive some of that bonus money, even though I’m not an official member of that team?” I’m concerned that–given the fact that you’ll always be working adjacent to these teams and never placed “on the books” as an “official” team member–you will never be eligible for a bonus. You and your boss need to find a way to get your work outputs recognized and rewarded. I don’t know if that means your boss “talks you up” more to his/her peer managers, or follows Pay No Attention’s advice above, or something else, but if this doesn’t get corrected, I’m afraid your contributions are going to get overlooked forever.

  109. Scared&Excited*

    Hey HR folks! What’s your best advice to really impress on a phone screen? I’m up for a literal dream job with a company I’ve been a massive follower of since I was a small child. I don’t want to over prepare, but the competition is fierce and I’m worried I just got an invite to interview out of pity or something. XD

    1. fhqwhgads*

      There is no way to really impress on a phone screen. A phone screen is mostly to make sure you’re not a total no out of the gate due to something red flaggy you might do in something as short and simple as a phone screen. So, basically, in the words of RuPaul: don’t fuck it up.

      1. Auntie Anti*

        True sometimes but not always. Many phone interviews, especially these days, are substantive to assess lots more than whether you’re an obvious no.

        AAM has a Phone Interviews section linked on the Topics page and in the sidebar to the right.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          Sure, phone interviews are real. But not all phone interviews are phone screens. The latter is a subset of the former.

  110. Iz*

    Is it normal to feel like you’re giving up when you’re quitting a job? I’m happy to be leaving but also sad and despite the fact that I’m excited about my new company and position, it feels like I’m giving up in a certain way?

    1. CW*

      It is normal. I quit my previous job in November last year. I gave notice on the week of Thanksgiving, so it made it easier. But the week after I found myself dragging my feet and just going through the motions. My mother felt the same way when she quit her job. My father retired at the end of 2018 and for the last month he just delegated his tasks appropriately as much as possible, but he is a different story because he didn’t resign, he was leaving the workforce for good. But he was still leaving.

      So it is normal. Just don’t completely slack off and you will be fine.

  111. _*

    Is there anything I should be doing when interviewing to increase my odds of getting accurate/truthful answers about a role? I switched jobs a few months ago and there are a couple aspects about the job that are completely different from what I was told by the recruiter and hiring manager. (Zoom interviews allowed me to take very thorough notes so I know I’m not remembering wrong.) For example, I was explicitly told that our team’s on call duties were never 24/7 and that there was no need to worry about getting pinged in the middle of the night, but that turned out to be false: I’ve already been pinged at 3am multiple times. I’m starting to think about my next job search but now I’m paranoid. I realize some degree of risk is unavoidable when switching jobs but there must be some way to reduce the chance of being blindsided, right?

    1. CallTheBagelShop*

      Ideally if you get a chance to interview with someone on the hiring team or someone who works with the hiring team (in addition to the interview with a hiring manager, of course), those are chances to ask about what it’s like to work on the team. Also, if you get a job offer, I think it’s reasonable to ask to speak to people already on the team (ie a 20-30 min informational chat) to learn more about the team. Hopefully that will help you reduce the risk about the role, although obviously you can’t completely eliminate it.

  112. How 2 chat*

    Had the weirdest chat today where a teammate mistakenly thought that I said we were going to do action X. Once I realized he misunderstood, I kept saying I didn’t advise that we do action X and wasn’t thinking X was necessary, but he kept replying with arguments against doing X. But we were in agreement against doing X, so I felt totally baffled about why all my efforts to say so failed!!

    Was he deliberately misunderstanding to make me frustrated?
    Did he just briefly read my messages and interpret whatever message he imagined instead of actually stopping to take in what I said?
    Did he want onlookers to think we was a voice of reason against X and not notice that I agreed all along?

    I think the second one is true. He was just not reading my responses and was responding to imagined statements instead. So peculiar! No idea how to prevent this happening again.

    1. WellRed*

      You prevent it happening again by picking up the phone when it’s clear the back and forth via text/dm/email is going awry.

  113. VP of Monitoring Employees’ LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*

    In the age of Covid and Work From Home, has the meaning of “End of Day” actually changed?

    One of my wife’s coworker was supposed to submit a report by “End of Day” on Friday. In the past, this has always been understood as synonymous with “Close of Business” (i.e. the end of the BUSINESS day). Yet that coworker posted the report to the company’s internal network at 11:52PM (i.e. almost at the end of the current Earth “stellar” day as measured in the Eastern Time Zone).

    Is this the new normal?

    1. fhqwhgads*

      No. There have always been some people who take “end of day” to its literal meaning, even though in a work context it usually does mean COB in whatever timezone you’re in, unless otherwise specified. It’s best practice to say “Close of Business” if that’s what you mean to avoid this sort of situation. Most reasonable people would’ve been done at or close to COB anyway, but better to be explicit off the bat.

    2. PollyQ*

      Is this someone who’s a recent graduate? My HS/college-aged niece & nephew often have assignments that are due to be submitted online at midnight. There have also been workplaces where “EOD Friday” was specifically picked so that if people ran into trouble finishing, they’d have the rest of the weekend before anyone needed to actually look at it Monday morning.

      1. VP of Monitoring Employees’ LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*

        No, this person has at least a few years of “real world” work experience.

    4. Grace Less*

      I’ve always told people that close of business means “I’m using your information this evening and I need it by 5pm” but “end of day” means “I’m using your information tomorrow so I need it by time I start work tomorrow.” It seems like a minor difference but with most people I work with pulling 60-70 hour weeks, the distinction matters.

  114. Buu*

    I’m lucky enough to be starting a new job at a much more senior level in a few months. It’s at a much more senior level, so I want to prepare myself. Can anyone recommend any management books or resources for tech or creative industries?

    ( and for a bonus if there’s anything you recommend I also do with my free time then please do. I was tempted to travel a bit, but honestly, with Covid I might limit it to smaller trips or excursions.)

  115. Frustrated and Confused*

    I’m having a career crisis. I HATE my current job (mismanagement, overworked, manager gets snippy about others taking days off “but that means *I* have to work”, employment policies never explained to me). I keep wishing I could do something more creative but I’m stuck doing a lot of retail stuff (non-profit org so this is how we make money but is not our mission). I’m just not sure its going to be any different if I go to a different org in the same field, so I don’t know if I really want to do this work anymore. Its probably silly to go back to school and get another degree or certification or something (I have 2 already, but no debt). I just don’t know what to do anymore and I think it is such a waste of life to stay in a job I don’t like that doesn’t make me happy or fulfilled or even really pay the bills. It’s just a time- and energy-suck. How do I recalibrate and find a direction?

    1. Buu*

      What kind of creative work do you want to do? Could you move sideways into say a marketing or advertising role? I think the first step is to figure out what kinds of skills you do have ( rather than going back to school for new ones.) Then figuring out what you can do from there.
      If the non profit aspect isn’t balancing out the job, what’s your equivalent job in a private company?

  116. ahhh*

    How do you turn down a counter offer? I work for an amazing company, amazing mentors, amazing coworkers… I can’t say enough about them. Now I’ll admit that no company is perfect, but overall I love where I am. I feel like the little things that annoy me aren’t earthshattering, but anytime they have come up naturally in conversation nothing is ever done. I have a few things going on personally as well that make things working at this company becoming more and more challenging – said nuances, a long commute, a family situation. A few weeks ago after a tough professional and personal day, on a whim I applied to a job I literally found that day online. Imagine my surprise 5 weeks later they made me an offer I can’t turn down. I never thought I would ever get such compensation. DOn’t get me wrong there were some compromises, step downs in some areas, major step ups in others and negotiations but overall it’s an out of this world offer. My current employer is going to be shocked. I think they might come back to me with a counteroffer given some upcomeing projects. How do I say it’s not you, it’s just time for me to move on. Help!

    1. VP of Monitoring Employees’ LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*

      Maybe start by saying that your final day WILL be (date) — i.e. your departure is NOT subject to change.

      If your current employer still makes a counteroffer, use your own wording. (“They made me an offer I can’t turn down. It’s not you, it’s just time for me to move on.”)

      Oh, and CONGRATULATIONS!!

  117. Internist*

    Very late question! If I don’t get any replies, I’ll repost on next week’s open thread…

    I’m in a low-level position (intern) because I’m changing fields, but I have a lot of experience in another industry. I like my team and my boss, but running effective meetings is not my boss’s strength. Our team meetings are pretty unstructured and people are coming away from them confused. For example, at one meeting our boss stated that he wanted us to move in X direction, and after the meeting I hear someone say we should probably look into moving in Y direction–the exact opposite. I wonder if it could have to do with the fact that I’m the only native English speaker on the team–everyone’s English is excellent, but having worked in my second language, I know it’s exhausting and makes it easier to miss details.

    I would love to say something like, “Could we summarize the key takeaways and action items at the end of the meeting?” But I’m afraid of coming off as an ***hole who is new to the team and thinks they know best. Is there any way I can gently suggest some improvements to our meetings without looking like a jerk?

    1. Invisible today*

      Oh yes. I’ve been there. Maybe at the end of the meeting ask the group “did I understand correctly that we will be doing x and pulling back on y” ? Being an intern in that way is good because of course you want to understand and clarify.

Comments are closed.