open thread – June 3-4, 2022

by Alison Green on June 3, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Xoxoxox Gossip Girl*

    What types of questions should you ask the recruiter or HR person during the first interview screen? I work in the tech/marketing space so a lot of the technical job questions are better for the potential supervisor and over the recruiter’s head. The main things I would want to know from the recruiter are about benefits, stock options, vacation policy, etc but that’s probably not the best to immediately ask during the first screen lol

    1. Fabulous*

      Those would be questions the recruiter would likely have answers to, though! I’d probably ask any questions you have about the job description, and logistical questions (i.e. what’s the hiring process look like, timeline, etc.)

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Phones screens area good time to ask about higher-level things:

      – overall company culture
      – size of the team you’ll be on
      – general salary range

      Depending on how the conversation goes, there may be a time to ask a broad question about benefits but I would expect the answer to be along the lines of “yes, we offer benefits and have a vacation policy.” Details on benefits, stock options, etc. generally come later in the interview process.

      1. Sunflower*

        Yes I usually like to ask about team structure, where everyone is based out of etc. I don’t usually ask more than 1-3 questions

    3. A Penguin!*

      Pay, if it’s not in the posting. Remote vs. in office vs. hybrid. I think vacation allotment is reasonable this early (I wouldn’t consider going back to entry-level vacation amounts, and some companies start everyone there regardless of position), but probably not more nuanced examination of benefits. You can ask why the position is open; you may get a more nuanced answer from the hiring manager, but the 1st rep should be able to give *an* answer. (I don’t ask this last one at this stage, but if it’s important to you, it’s a reasonable one)

      Really, anything where there exists a reasonable answer that would make you decide to withdraw.

    4. irene adler*

      Actually, it is okay to ask about the compensation offered. This is something the recruiter will know something about. Most first interview screens I have done, the recruiter brings up the topic of benefits. They also go into them a bit.
      Recruiters can talk about company culture. And you might ask about avenues for advancement, enrichment opportunities and what the company plans are for the future.

    5. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I would ask more about the interview/hiring process at the first stage…hiring timelines, interview requirements, any insight about what the hiring committee’s goals are, if they are willing to share, etc.

    6. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I will sometimes ask questions about what big initiatives the company is planning and what its goals are for its business, culture, and community presence.

    7. anonymous73*

      I ask any deal breaker questions. I always ask for salary range, verify specific location, if it’s a contract position or FTE, if it’s hybrid and if so how many days required in the office. I only ask high level clarification questions specific to the job duties because they usually won’t know any detailed information about the job itself. There’s nothing wrong with asking about benefits in the first phone screen, especially if they’re super important to you and will lead to your final decision.

    8. Not VERY disorganized*

      I absolutely asked all of those things during my phone screen for my current job. It may be different to your situation since they reached out to me with a job description. I phrased it as ‘I appreciate you reaching out! As I mentioned, I’m not actively looking, and I don’t want to waste either of our time. The job looks interesting – but before we proceed I want to make sure we’re on the same page in terms of compensation and benefits.” No problem at all. I felt kind of like a badass, but I live the AAM way. I’m so much happier, confident, and have a very clear understanding of what I’m willing/able to do and for what remuneration. Bliss! YOU GOT THIS.

  2. Communication with boss in a remote workplace*

    I’m covering work items for a colleague Mary, on secondment. As part of this work, a contract that enabled an expansion to receive mint teabags (in addition to chamomile) was signed. In a presentation to the company on this, I had slotted this under “Project A update”.

    When my boss (who had worked with Mary on these items) was reviewing the presentation slide, she sent a MS Teams message on should this even be considered a Project A update or fall under another project?

    My immediate response was, “Would this be Project B instead of Project A then? As it is not clear from Mary’s lack of notes on this matter. Shall we have a quick call on this later?”

    She replied she had no time for a call, and just state this as a teabag expansion on the presentation slide without naming which project it is tied to. And I accepted that and made the change. After a few minutes, I perused some older files, I added in the chat that the ancillary legal documents related to the signed agreement do in fact list this as an expansion of Project A. The chat ends there.

    Flash forward to my monthly check-in. We’re going through some work updates and land on the teabag expansion. She mentions it was confusing that I mentioned Project B and then Project A right after and a general comment is that I need to think of all the pieces of information and my role is to integrate them together beforehand to improve my communication.

    I was caught off guard and replied I’ll digest this a bit on my end. But looking at the chat, I do ask if we can have a call on the matter, I’m a bit confused as to what else I could have done. Also, in the past, my boss made another comment on my communication with a partner. We were trying to get a hold of a partner. She had indicated that what I should’ve done was just to have a call with the partner rather than email them, but in fact I was emailing them to finalize a time for a phone call. I mentioned I’d take her advice and left it at that.

    Now it is as of she’s making a list of these instances…..when I feel that I haven’t had a chance to respond. How can I respond? I am getting frustrated as the boss and company always mention to ask questions whenever needed but then when you do ask a question, it is met with questions on why you’re even asking.

    1. Jean*

      Well for starters, next time someone pushes back on why you’re asking about something, the response needs to be that you’re trying to improve your communication. Also it seems like your boss is attempting (maybe consciously, maybe not) to scapegoat you for her own shortcomings in the communication department. Keep having conversations in a written medium, and keep copies on file in a searchable form. That way you can refer back to them if this keeps happening. Lastly – stay calm. I’m a catastrophizer too so I get it, but maybe this really is just an isolated f-up on your boss’s part.

    2. Anonymous Koala*

      It sounds like your boss wants you to do more self-sleuthing before coming to her with questions. I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, but it sounds like there’s a mismatch between your expectations about how you should communicate with your boss (asking lots of questions) vs what she wants (mostly come to her with answers and only come to her with questions you absolutely need her input on). I’ve had bosses like this and I had to really adjust my expectations about oversight and work communication style. It might be worth it to have a bigger picture conversation with her about how much communication and oversight she wants on projects, and to think about the people who have great relationships with your boss and ask them how they communicate with her.

      1. Original Poster*

        Thanks! You’re making a lot of sense with the mismatch aspect. The offer from them to receive any questions might in reality be to receive more filtered questions that absolutely need their input.

    3. Fabulous*

      So it sounds like the issue may be not with the fact that you’re asking questions, but it’s the type of questions you may be asking, and whether there is opportunity to answer your own question via available resources without needing to ask.

      The confusion in the situation with Mary’s work likely stemmed from you bringing up Project B seemingly out of nowhere when the boss was just asking about whether it applied to another project in general. My takeaway is that instead of naming Project B as a possibility, you could have simply said, “I’ll see if I can find any additional information on the matter and let you know.”

      As for the phone call thing, I feel like it was just a miscommunication there. Yes, you were trying to schedule a call, but your boss was saying that sometimes just picking up the phone may have been the easier option since you weren’t getting responses via email.

    4. Riding a Bike on Fire*

      I’m in project management and most days I come away feeling like I either can’t play politics well at all, or doing so drains me faster than all the spoons in a Costco can sustain me. So I absolutely empathize with all of this. I’ve faced situations like this before and they suck and I hate them.

      One observation, though – “Would this be Project B instead of Project A then? As it is not clear from Mary’s lack of notes on this matter. Shall we have a quick call on this later?” – if this is exactly what you said, it reads to me like you’re trying to shift blame onto Mary. I wonder if maybe boss is trying to defend Mary by attacking you? Still not great, but that might be where she’s coming from. I also don’t understand what value you get from saying “Mary missed this” vs. “Hey, here’s a problem with project scope we need to clarify, let’s work this out.” Sometimes you have to blame a person for something going wrong, but in my experience, 1. it’s rare, and 2. it always pisses someone off, warranted or no. Wherever you can center a problem rather than a person in project communications, it tends to make things go a lot better.

      1. As per Elaine*

        I would definitely avoid looking like you’re trying to throw Mary under the bus, but given that Boss doesn’t think you’re doing enough research/integration/something, I do think it’s worthwhile to mention research that you have done on the question, when it flows naturally in a conversation.

        As a general comment, it’s possible that your boss is frustrated because you, unsurprisingly, aren’t as good/experienced at this stuff as Mary is. I’m not sure what to do about this, but if this seems to be a theme going forward, it may be worthwhile to have a conversation like, “I understand that you want me to figure things out on my own, but sometimes I’ve looked at all the resources I can think of and still can’t come up with a solution I’m confident on — what would you like me to do then?”

      2. Original Poster*

        Hi, it’s good to know that I’m not the only one who feels that the PM world can be a minefield at times. I totally wasn’t trying to throw Mary under the bus. Mentioning the lack of notes was moreso me justifying why I’m raising this in the first place. But you raised a good point.

    5. Flash Packet*

      Your situation sounds similar to one I had with a junior co-worker. Yes, I had told him to come to me with any questions. And, yes, it was my fault for not also telling him that I expect him to try to find the answer on his own first.

      He immediately defaulted to wanting to have “a quick call to clarify” on everything, and it wore me out. I did, eventually, start pushing back on his requests for phone calls with, “Have you looked at what we did last year on this?” (or similar redirection). And then straight up telling him that he needed to do some basic digging / research before asking anyone in the company anything. [Which I only said long after I was sure that he knew all the systems and locations to look for basic information.]

      I guess maybe the way to think of it is this: What were you anticipating would happen on the phone call with your boss about Project A vs Project B? Walk through it like a decision tree.

      Would your boss have said, “I have intimate, detailed knowledge of both projects so I can state with certainty that this is not Project B”? In which case, she would have already said in Teams, “This isn’t Project B.” So, no phone call in that case.

      Or would she have said, “What other information do we have on Project A? Can we confirm that the mint teabags are, indeed, an expansion of it?” In which case, you could have already looked into that on your own (like you ended up doing), and saved your boss the time of a phone call.

      As for the email-to-ask-for-a-phone-call issue: If you know that the partner prefers scheduled calls instead of unannounced ones, you could have said that to your manager when she brought it up. But if you don’t know that for sure, you could have said, “Ah, OK. I wasn’t sure about the protocol on that. I’ll definitely just pick up the phone and call them in the future.”

      I’ll also note that there’s a difference between “We were trying to get ahold of a partner,” and “My manager just asked me a question that I don’t immediately know the answer to.” In the former, a phone call is appropriate; in the latter, a phone call isn’t.

  3. Lazy Bones*

    I’m 1 month into my new job and I’m averaging maybe 4 hours of work a day- is this normal at this point? My boss seems really busy and I do appreciate that she’s easing me into things but I’m starting to feel lazy/guilty and I don’t know if I should be pushing her to give me more work (I’m coming from a really overworked last job so I am trying to enjoy the slow period as much as I can). She said this job will be challenging and my counterpart in Asia is slammed so I have to imagine I’ll either get more work or I’m missing something I’m supposed to be doing.

    I’m planning to have a one month, how’s it going/what else would you like to see me do more of, etc? check in next week and she is planning to loop me into a project that should give me more work. I am mostly concerned there are other things I’m supposed to be doing with this free time that I’m not aware of.

    Just wondering if I should stop feeling guilty about this or need to be concerned?

    1. Respectfully, Pumat Sol*

      That’s pretty normal. I didn’t have a lot of work my first few months as I ramped up at my current job, about a year ago. It took a while for the work to come my way. Some of it was organic, some of it was me saying “Hey, I have a lot of open time, what do you want me to fill it with?”

      1. As per Elaine*

        Agreed. This is very normal. Be vocal that you aren’t busy and are looking for tasks, but if your boss/other colleagues are too busy to assign you work/teach you how to do the work, there’s not much you can do, and you don’t want to push so hard that people get annoyed at you.

    2. Anonymous Koala*

      It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong! I’d use the extra time to go through all the documentation you can get your hands on, go through whatever self education materials you can find inside and outside your organisation, and brush up on the software you know you’ll be using. It’s very normal not to have tons of real “work” the first month at a new job, but you should have lots of things to read and learn to fill a 40 hour week.

      1. Lady Danbury*

        This! Now is the time to do as much reading/learning as possible, because you probably won’t have time once you’re fully in the swing of things. If it makes sense for your role/team, maybe ask your boss if you can help coworkers document some of their processes/procedures or at least review examples of the final work product that you’re expected to produce.

        1. Lazy Bones*

          Thanks for this! I’m a tad frustrated as there isn’t a main drive with info stored – at my last job it was a central drive for ‘Lazy Bones Team’ and then each project had it’s own folder within so it was a lot easier to just jump around and check out documents.

          Everyone saves their docs in their individual drives so I need to ask people for the info directly and there’s not really an opportunity to explore around. I think I’ll start compiling a running document with files/folders that would be helpful to me and share with the broader to team to see what they can give me access to.

          1. NotAMermaid*

            Getting yourself organised is a good idea and while one presumes you were hired to do a job you can already do (or else you would be busy with training), there is always more to learn. I would be wary of being vocal about a light workload and making offers to take on tasks which are not intended to be on your task list long term because once you put something willingly on your plate you might find it stays there for ever and at some point the tasks you ARE responsible for are going to be a full workload.

    3. Scoffrio*

      I’m four months into my new job and just started feeling like I have a full load of work! I was really grateful for my manager’s insistence that I take things slow, because while I didn’t know what I didn’t know the first month, the subsequent months were filled with moments where I was like “actually I should have more background on that, let me spend a day figuring that out.” I think the check in is definitely the right call, and maybe that meeting you can also be like, “is there background information/knowledge you recommend I get myself up to speed on so I can be most effective down the line?”

      1. Lazy Bones*

        This is extremely re-assuring! At my last job, we were much more call heavy so I even though I wasn’t working on projects, I was on calls for half the day from get go at least absorbing information. Also all of my new coworkers at my last job were slammed from the get go so while I expected to be slow to start, I wasn’t sure at what point to expect a full workload feeling! This is also the first job I’ve started remotely so I think that contributes to the guilt because instead of wandering around the office or taking extended lunch breaks, I’m just chillin at home!

        1. GlazedDonut*

          Yes–I started my new (remote) job last summer and had many of the same feelings. We have a new team member starting soon and I have been planning on letting her know that the first few weeks will be slow and that’s okay.
          It probably took me about 2-3 months to get into my actual work. And even now, there are slow days where I use the time to vacuum the house/fold laundry, and that’s okay, too.

    4. Gracely*

      Stop feeling guilty, especially since you’re about to be looped into a project with more work. For now, maybe use the extra time to get to know coworkers/the building/etc. a bit better? Or to read up on industry news/something else relevant to work?

    6. calvin blick*

      I’m three months into my new job, and while I’m still not slammed I’m much busier than I was one month in. I think that’s pretty normal. At my previous job I trained newer employees and they never had much to do one month in either.

    7. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Not knowing what you do…but the counterpart in Asia maybe has ongoing projects that started before you were hired and therefore can’t really hand them off mid-stream, or has soft knowledge about the work that you haven’t been fully brought up to speed on yet — client preferences, or office politics involved, etc. I would spend time getting a feel for things like that, if you can, review project notes or shadow your counterpart unobtrusively, if you can.

    8. MuseumNerd*

      That sounds normal to me! For the first month after I got promoted I was doing the new job and also still the old job and everything felt chaotic and stressful and then my replacement started and I only had the new job to worry about it felt like everything had just ground to a halt and it was alarming at first. Now I’m 6 months in and plenty busy. I’d spend this time making sure all your tech is set up and reading whatever process documents you can find.

    9. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I try to say something, like “I have some bandwidth if there’s anything I can take off someone’s plate.” But I also try to only say it once.

    10. Midwest Manager*

      I’m currently working with a new employee in a similar situation. My org takes 3 months to get into the swing of the work and 18 months to be fully trained. At one month, I wouldn’t be concerned just yet. If it continues to be a problem at 6 months, that’s a red flag. In the meantime, do the best you can to make your availability known to others on your team or in your work area and offer to help with whatever they can delegate. As people get more comfortable with your presence, and begin to trust your knowledge and abilities more, the work will naturally come to you. If you’re truly worried about the lack of work, talk to your manager and ask for clarification on timeline for the work to come.

    11. BlueDijon*

      Wow this is me. I’m about 2.5 months in and t’s started slowly ramping up more than in the first few weeks, but hoo boy is it a culture shift, especially when coming from really toxic, overworked places. Have been really feeling down about this as well. Thank you to you for raising this, and the commenters for their experiences!!

    12. Green Goose*

      When a manager is slammed and not really good at delegating this can happen. I think it’ll get better after you have been there longer.

    13. sb51*

      People vary a lot in terms of how much new stuff they can absorb/implement at a time (and it’s not necessarily that closely related to what their productivity will be once they’re ramped up) — it’s generally better to give people time to absorb and learn how to do things correctly even if more slowly up-front, so if you are ramping up more quickly than the “average” you just might not need all that absorption time that’s in your schedule.

      If there’s anything additional you can do to try to understand the whys/history/context of the things you’re being asked to do, that might be valuable right now. And if there’s any gaps in the training material, take notes/compile suggestions to help the next person.

    14. Esmeralda*

      Can be normal. You should be using the free time to go over training materials, learn about the employer, dig thru employer website, meet others on your team, ask others on your team questions, ask if you can shadow others on your team…

      And discuss with your boss at the one month meeting. Sounds like you will be getting more work at that point.

    15. anonymous73*

      I don’t think you can categorize anything as “normal” because it depends on a lot of factors. Honestly one month in I’d expect you to be busier. I’ve been with my job since August and have about 4 hours of work to do per WEEK. Which is why I’m looking for a new job.

      I’d definitely meet with your boss and have a conversation about your workload. See if there’s something you can do on your own when you have bandwidth and if there’s any training or anything steps you can take to ramp up to what she said will be challenging, because you don’t want to go from 0 to 60 overnight or you’ll be running for the hills.

    16. Mr. Cajun2core*

      Thanks for posting this. I am 6 months into my job and there are only about 4 days out of the month when I am busy most of the day. The rest of the day I usually only have an hour or 2 of work. I am glad to see it is not just me.
      I really hate it. My boss and my other co-workers are very reluctant to give up work for some reason. My boss admits she is a control freak (but not a micro-manager). She just likes to do things herself rather than delegate. I have spoken to her about this and she just states that there isn’t really anything to give me! We would have been busier at this time but we lost a major project and I think that is part of the problem.

      It is not just you. You are not alone.

    17. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      I say that this is fairly normal 1 month in. Generally, you’re still in learning mode. I know at my company, people have tons of corporate training video modules to get through and that takes approximately a month! For technical roles, sometimes longer!
      If you feel you’re ready to take on more, talk to your boss to see if there is something on the minor side (researching something, typing up something, data entry, etc.) you could help with or help your counterpart in Asia with.

    18. Stoppin' by to chat*

      I would enjoy the quiet for now since it sounds like you will be busy soon!

  4. NonimousRex*

    TL;DR: Is the way I look undermining my professional opportunities? I’ve been working exclusively from home for over 2 years now, since the pandemic started. Recently I met a coworker (Petunia) for the first time when we traveled together to another city for a conference. The conference was great, we had fun, made some good contacts, etc. But on the way back and a couple of times since then Petunia has made several comments about how she can’t believe how young I am and how I’m so good at what I do “despite my youth”. This all feels very patronising – Petunia never cared about my age before she knew what I look like and I like to think I’m good at my job in general, not in spite of my youth. Is this worth pushing back on, and if so, how?

    For context, I’m not especially young (32) but I favour a style of grooming/dressing that does make me look a little younger – think long hair and business dresses vs the helmet hair and pantsuits I saw on the older executives at the conference. I like the way I look, but my career is important to me and I will change my style if it’s undermining my professional opportunities. I’m also single and childless and Petunia is in her 70s and a grandmother with grandchildren my age. We have the same job title, but Petunia has been around a long time and knows almost everyone in our small industry. Do I need to change anything about my style to be taken more seriously? And should I say anything to Petunia, or hope this goes away with time?

    1. Adereterial*

      Oh goodness, no. I’m older than you, but I dress similarly when I need to be smart, have long coloured hair that ranges from platinum blonde to green depending on where I am in my hairdressers schedule, and no one has ever said anything about my ‘youth’ or otherwise.

      This is a Petunia problem, not a you problem. Personally I’d ask her to stop making discriminatory comments about my age (which they are!) if I were in your shoes but you might prefer to just ignore her.

    2. DrSalty*

      This is almost definitely on Petunia being weird and having a skewed perspective because of her own age, your appearance sounds totally fine and normal.

      2. tamarack and fireweed*

        Yeah, it’s a “her” issue, not a “you” issue, and I don’t think dressing “older” would fix it.

        I looked younger than my age for a good while (plus, going back and getting a doctorate/new career in my 40s means many in my peer group are closer to half my age), but I’m also not girlish or cute. But when someone made a remark re: “despite your young age” I’d say, deadpan, “I’m older than I look … [friendly smile] … and it shouldn’t really matter, should it?” In my case that was enough.

        Now of course *I* often feel vaguely inferior to a brilliant and capable youngster (~ 30s) and have to catch myself to avoid making remarks that *will* come across as patronizing but that are borne out of imposterish feelings.

    3. Mockingjay*

      No. Petunia is a coworker, not your boss, so I would simply ignore her personal opinions. And that’s all these are – personal opinions which have nothing to do with work. Bring it up once: “Petunia, please don’t comment on my appearance or age.” Alison has plenty of scripts in the archives if you need to reinforce boundaries.

      Re-read what you yourself wrote: The conference was great, we had fun, made some good contacts…” You are doing your work successfully. You don’t need to adopt helmet hair to succeed.

    4. Hei Hei, the Chicken from Moana*

      That is a very dated comment and I think can be chalked up to generational differences. It was inappropriate to make on her end, but unsurprising. Up to you whether you want to broach the topic with her – she might dig in and make you more frustrated, or she might be open to hearing your side and telling you about how it “used to be” or somesuch. You shouldn’t have to change anything.

      1. Observer*

        It was inappropriate to make on her end, but unsurprising.

        I would have said that about the first time she said that. But *multiple* comments? No, that’s odd enough that I don’t think you can chalk it up to generational differences.

        Also, I don’t think that the OP should discuss her clothing with Petunia. In fact, I don’t think she should discuss any of this with. Although I do think that she could ask her to stop talking about how YOUNG she is, and maybe even ask her to stop implying that she expects OP to mess up because of her “youth”.

      2. Generic Name*

        Yeah, she’s of the generation where women at a certain age (no idea if it was 35 or 40 maybe??) cut their hair short because it was “inappropriate” and “girlish” to have hair longer than chin-length I guess. I remember when my mom got her hair cut and permed. It was a huge change, and she has barely changed her hairstyle in the remaining 30+ years. This is a her perception issue and not a you issue.

        1. kicking_k*

          Yep. My mum has been telling me for about 25 years that I won’t always be able to have long hair down my back etc. I originally told her I would think about cutting it at 30. Then I turned 40 and still didn’t feel like cutting it. I don’t think it has held me back; I keep it neat and out of my face, and if I want to look extra smart for an interview or something, I wear it up.

        2. the cat's pajamas*

          Interesting, I always assumed it was because of the hairstyle trends at the time for older age groups, easier to maintain short hair, and maybe the earlier waves of feminism like you don’t “have” to look girlish but it’s not especially bad.

        3. Autumn*

          I was in my late 30’s with nearly waist length hair and my “greatest Generation mom asked me if I was maybe too old to have such long hair, my jaw dropped and I said “I can’t believe you asked me that!” She immediately back peddled, but it blew my away!

          I think there was a time when shorter hair was seen as a freedom since women of a certain age were expected to always wear long hair pinned up. Mine was down as much as up, but I still have tender patches on my scalp. I can see where women born in the first half of the 20th century would have thought short hair was the greatest thing! Mine is currently half way down my shoulder blades.

      3. starfox*

        I may be off-base here, but I wonder if her grandchildren are struggling or not as successful as OP? Still makes the comments 100% inappropriate, though.

    5. Hlao-roo*

      I think the context that you are 32 and Petunia is in her 70s with grandchildren your age explains her comments. If more people make comments about about your “youth,” then it might be worth a closer look at your wardrobe and grooming choices but for now I don’t think you need to change. And if you want a second opinion to put your mind at rest, I would ask a trusted friend or two to look at some of your work/conference outfits.

      1. 8 1/2 in dog years*

        speaking as someone who is closer to 70 than 32, it does get super weird when you find yourself old enough to have co-workers who are young enough to be your children, much less your grandchildren. Some of us have the presence of mind not to comment on it, but I don’t think the intent is usually patronizing or unkind, and I definitely don’t think you should change your style based on what she or I think of it.

        1. SnappinTerrapin*

          Yeah, I’ve got a gut feeling that Petunia meant to be complimentary, rather than to mess with Nonimous’s head. I see why it makes Nonimous uncomfortable, but as others have noted, this is a peer rather than a leader, and the other interactions at the conference went well.

          I’m almost as old as Petunia. I do have colleagues close to the age of some of my grandchildren. Some things that seemed polite when we were younger are less acceptable now, and in many ways, that’s an improvement. And I do remember the complicated feelings about attaining a degree of success at a young age. It would be better if Petunia resisted the temptation to make this comment.

          I don’t know the personal dynamics well enough to advise whether she should say anything to Petunia. Some people appreciate knowing where not to step, and adjust to accommodate their colleagues, and some double down.

          In any event, Nonimous doesn’t need to adjust her own style. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

          1. Chief Petty Officer Tabby*

            Yes, SnappinTerrapin, this! Most of my coworkers are young enough to be my children, but we laugh about it, because literally nobody knew until it came up organically because we do birthdays, and everyone thought I was turning 30. When I said, no, I’m 46 now, there was a WTF moment, because I seemingly act nothing like how their moms act. And I have this creepily young face. So every now and then, we kid about it. But it’s funny, because I don’t mind being “the old lady” of the group. I thi k there’s only 2 people there who are older than me, everyone else is 35ish or younger. It doesn’t matter to anyone, because I am very, very good about not making it A Thing. I respect skill levels, and am never upset to have a young supervisor, because they earned the position. And they know they can lean on my experience and skills where they don’t have them, and will happily give them my skills to have for themselves.

    6. Observer*

      It’s hard to tell whether you really do look younger than your age, and if your clothing style feeds into that. It’s also hard to tell if you’re looking at things with a reasonably objective eye or not. The way you describe yourself and your dress vs the “older executives” at the conference really sounds like you’re painting with a very broad and reductive brush, with a hint of disdain or something like that for those executives.

      Dresses per se usually don’t make a woman look very young, so if your clothing is having an effect, I’d look at the particular style / cut, patterns, fit etc. Same for your hair – it’s long, but is it long and all over the place or long and reasonably controlled? Are you shedding?

      Of course, it could also be that Petunia is just being weird. Because even if you were dressing in oversized jeans and grungy graphics T’s, her comments about your age really are really odd. Once is one thing – a bit rude and she should have kept it to herself but not egregious. But multiple comments on your competence? Really not ok. So, before you start making yourself crazy about changing your style, talk to someone who you respect and knows both how you dress and the norms in your industry about this. Ask them if your style is making you look really young and non-serious.

      1. Not a cat*

        This is very industry-dependent. In my vertical, I’m an SME, in my mid-50s, so I do a fair amount of speaking engagements, workshops, panels, etc. The “uniform” I settled on is a band tee, under a skirt suit w/ boots or flats. My hair is slightly below my chin and the color changes. My industry isn’t terribly traditional, so I wear what I like. Your look sounds fine to me, I wouldn’t worry.

      2. Ali + Nino*

        “The way you describe yourself and your dress vs the “older executives” at the conference really sounds like you’re painting with a very broad and reductive brush, with a hint of disdain or something like that for those executives.”

        Thank you – this stood out to me as well. Two wrongs don’t make a right. FWIW, I’m also in my early 30s. Long hair and business dresses? I know plenty of female colleagues in their 50s and beyond who rock that.

      3. NonimousRex*

        It was not my intention to be disdainful, but rather to contrast my appearance with the appearance of my colleagues who are closer to Petunia in age. I’m aware that many women of all ages dress the way I do, but I do look young and I don’t make any attempt to dress in a way that would make me look older, although I do try to dress professionally. My question was about trying to gauge whether looking young will create problems for me- I’m grateful for all the responses, and it seems like the consensus is that as long as I appear professional I should be okay.

    7. As per Elaine*

      I wouldn’t change your style based on Petunia’s feedback. If there are people a little ahead of you in your career whose judgement you respect, you could check in to see if they think you should change, but what you describe sounds normal to me.

      As far as Petunia’s comments, you can either decide to ignore them or go with cheerful, “Petunia, you’ve been harping on my age ever since we met at the conference. Please stop.” And if she ignores that you could progress to a firmer and less friendly “Please stop talking about my age” or escalate to your boss.

      1. NonimousRex*

        Petunia’s comments particularly bother me because I heard similar comments from my advisor when I was in graduate school – she was also in her 70s and of the helmet hair generation. I brushed it off then because that professor was notorious around campus for making personal remarks, but hearing this again a few years later is making me insecure. Thanks everyone for the reassurance.

        1. Observer*

          It sounds like Petunia is another person who makes too many personal comments. Don’t worry about her.

        2. Just Another Cog*

          The term helmet hair just cracks me up! I am of that generation and had said hair back in the 80’s and 90’s. I don’t know about other women (and men!!) of that era, but I always liked it hairsprayed to the max because you could fix it in the AM and then it didn’t move all day. But, the hairspray buildup all over the bathroom was gross.

          Anyhoo, I honestly think Petunia doesn’t mean to be condescending with her out of touch comments. I wonder if she truly thinks she is being complimentary. I’ll bet this doesn’t make it less annoying.

          1. NonimousRex*

            Petunia is generally a kind person, so I think you’re right that she isn’t ill-intentioned. I think I’ll wait and see if these comments go away if I don’t engage with her about them, otherwise I’ll try some of the suggested scripts for telling her to stop. Thanks everyone, this is very helpful.

    8. Generic Name*

      Well obviously you must get your hair cut and style it into a mature-looking helmet paired with Hilary Clinton power suits. ;) I’m sure you can tell I’m joking. Honestly, I thought you were going to say you wear your hair in pigtails and wear cartoon character t-shirts or something, but the way you describe your look sounds perfectly appropriate and professional. I’m 42 and have a “mom-bod”, and I’m sure Petunia would think I look exceptionally young too. If you REALLY want to look more serious, you might wear a blazer with your business dress, but a business dress sounds absolutely fine.

    9. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It is a thing that happens sometimes. Whether Petunia is a symptom of everyone in your company/industry behaving that way is hard to say. Does she actually know that you’re 32? Or is it that from her perspective, everyone under 45 is a youngun?

      I (male) went through it in my 20s. I actually stopped wearing contacts and went back to glasses because they made me look older. And there wasn’t really anything I could do with clothes – we were an all suits, all the time company, and I dressed exactly the same as my 40- and 50-year-old colleagues.

      1. NonimousRex*

        She knows how old I am because I told her, but Petunias is definitely one of the oldest people in our office (most of my colleagues are late 30s to early 50s), so perhaps for her everyone is “young” – although I haven’t heard anything to either affect.

    10. Excel-sior*

      I don’t think you need to do anything big. Next time she says how young you are, just say something like “Thanks, but I’m not that young, I’m 32 and I’ve been doing this for x years”.

    11. mandatory anon*

      “Wow Petunia, you seem to have a problem being professional with younger colleagues. Or is it just me in particular?”

    12. Just another queer reader*

      A person I met once said “I know I have great skin, but I’ve been in this field for a long time!” I thought it was a great line, and delivered cheerfully, helped establish credibility.

      2. arachnophilia*

        I’m a young-looking 48 (though I have a short, stereotypically lesbian haircut, which suits my identity), and it’s typical when introducing ourselves to say how long we’ve been at our institution (I’ve been here 18 years) – occasionally, I’ve gotten comments along the lines of, “wow, you must have been a baby when you started,” and I just say, “Yup! I was a llama-grooming prodigy!” and move along. It always seems to work and takes the emphasis off of how I look/present myself.

    13. Disappearing Emails*

      You absolutely shouldn’t, because the point might go right over her head (making you look like an ageist yourself), but I’d be sooo tempted to respond to her stereotypes about young people with some stereotype about elderly people, like, “wow, your memory is super good for your age!”

      Anyway, it’s definitely not you, it’s her. If you started dressing like the older ladies, Petunia would probably tell you to enjoy your youth and wear fun clothes while you can.

    14. JSPA*

      Take it as praise; she imagined you a decade older, in her mind’s eye, to have reached your stage of excellence. She’s essentially reminding herself of your maturity and polish and skills, each time she feels that disconnect.

    15. Anon for this*

      I think it unlikely your hair/dress are undermining your opportunities, provided you look professional. Look at what you are wearing, and consider whether you would take you seriously in a meeting. If you would, you are fine. If you give off a less-than-professional vibe it could affect your opportunities. (I have seen more than one young woman harm her career by wearing something trendy, rather than professional, to meetings with higher-ups. The boss won’t give plum assignments to someone who doesn’t look like they work in an office. Maybe not fair, but I’ve seen it happen.)

      Note: Your colleague’s comment on age is likely due to her age, not yours.

    17. Maggie*

      You don’t need to change anything, she’s in her 70s so she thinks of you as super young just like a 15 year old thinks your positively ancient :)

    18. Chief Petty Officer Tabby*

      Most people don’t care. I’m 46, and regularly get mistaken for 30, slightly over the average age of my coworkers (the youngest is 19, the oldest is going to be 29 tomorrow!). I typically run around with pink ombre locs, and have a plethora of tattoos and piercings, to add to my genetic inheritance of an extreme baby face *(it took ubtil my mid 30’s to look over 21!) It will be annoying with people like Petunia, but the trick is to never let it get under your skin; most will care more about your skill than your looks.

    19. Stoppin' by to chat*

      You all are 40 years apart, so this sounds like a petunia thing. She probably views you as newer in your career than her, and she’s equating that with “youth.” Keep wearing and doing what you’re doing!

  5. Lana Kane*

    Does anyone have any advice on scripts to use when your supervisor is an oversharer who constantly talks about how she dislikes her appearance and also just….talks a lot? Like, I know more about her sex life than I do my best friend’s. I’ve tried wearing headphones, she just keeps talking. I’ve tried not engaging, particularly when she talks about appearance things (because that is REALLY not my jam, I’m all “am I healthy? Do I feel physically good? Excellent, who cares if I gained weight” and I just am not someone who thinks about physical appearance much in general) but she just keeps going. It is really distracting, I’ve told her it’s distracting, and I’m honestly afraid to say anything because she’s my supervisor, is fairly new to being in a supervisory role (and doesn’t quite seem to understand what that role means in terms of interactions with underlings), and does my yearly review.

    1. Jean*

      At least with the sex stuff, you’re pretty safe to say “I’d rather not discuss that, it makes me uncomfortable. Thanks for understanding.” And if she brings it up again, go to HR. I know you’re worried about the power imbalance, but that’s what puts her solidly in the wrong here. She should not be dumping on you at all, but especially about her sex life. Hard no.

      1. Generic Name*

        Yes, even if you are both the same gender, sexualized comments in the workplace that makes you feel uncomfortable is sexual harassment.

      2. Lana Kane*

        Ok, that’s a concise way to put it that should make it difficult for her to re-engage, thank you!

        It’s just hard. The power imbalance is really screwing up my ability to react properly in the moment when she starts talking about stuff that’s inappropriate for work. Plus, I’m a total introvert who would rather just go all day at work without talking, rather than talking about work inappropriate topics (she is, clearly, an extrovert with no filter).

      3. Esmeralda*

        correct. I had a male supervisor do that once, when I was considerably younger and a lot lower in the heirarchy …so it was more obvious, but he was genuinely oblivious. I used the “it makes me uncomfortable” script first. The second time I said, “Dr. NoFilter, I said that makes me uncomfortable. I would rather not have to go to the EEO office about this, but I will if I have to.”

        And that was the end of that problem.

    2. Meep*

      My former manager is a chronic oversharer (I too know way too much about her sex life!) and I am horrible at getting people off the phone or back on task. I found two techniques work.

      1. Redirect, redirect, redirect. Whenever she gets off course, ask her questions about the work-related problem at hand. Don’t let up.

      2. Ask her if you can talk about this later and keep doing that.

      1. All The Words*

        I like this approach. I’ve been much more direct (though polite and respectful) in the past, which sadly, has come back to bite me in the arse. Retaliation can be impossible to prove, even when obvious. If you can get a subject change with a redirect that’d be perfect. She may even eventually put two and two together and correct her oversharing habits.

        1. Meep*

          In my case, at the very least, she will find someone else to gripe to. Not ideal as she will gain a reputation around the office, so to speak, but if OP already tried it is the best thing that can happen.

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I’m not sure you can say much unless she’s making comments on YOUR appearance. At that point you can say, “Please don’t make comments about my body” or “Unless you have a concern about a hygiene issue that is impacting work, I’m not going to discuss my appearance.” Is there anyway to steer the conversation to a different topic instead? If she just likes to talk to fill the void, maybe you can at least give her a new subject that you find interesting. TV book movie plants anything?

      1. Unkempt Flatware*

        I think discussing one’s sex life must come with consent no matter the power imbalance. Continuing would be sexual harassment.

      2. pancakes*

        I’m not sure I agree with that. It’s tricky here because of the power imbalance, of course, but I think it’s fair for anyone to ask an officemate to lay off body or diet talk, if either are persistent. Those aren’t good topics of conversation for the office if they bother anyone present, even if it’s not directly about them. There are enough people affected by eating disorders themselves, or with friends or loved ones are, or people with a family history of weight being a fraught issue, that at this point I think the polite thing to do is just lay off those topics if asked.

        Certainly asking this woman to stop talking about her sex life is appropriate too; I agree with what others have said about that. My language for that might be along the lines of interrupting her with, “Can we please not talk about our sex lives at work? That’s a real boundary for me. Thanks for understanding.”

    4. JSPA*

      “I’m not a great audience for X,” said without rancor or drama, is my super neutral “go to” line.

      “Body image stuff just doesn’t seem to have a place in my brain, so I can’t really respond to any of this, unless you’re looking for a string of neutral noises and confused expressions.”

      “I never know what to say on this topic–what are you hoping to hear from me?”

      But the sex stuff, you can absolutely shut down!!!

      1. Lana Kane*

        So what I’m taking away from this is to not be afraid to feel awkward by saying things to shut her down, but do it politely. Thank you!

        1. Generic Name*

          Captain Awkward calls this “returning awkward to sender”. SHE is the one being awkward by talking about her sex life (!!) at work.

        2. Esmeralda*

          Return awkward to sender. YOU didn’t make this weird, your boss did.

          (Captain Awkward’s blog is a great resource for scripts on dealing with boundary crushers.)

    5. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I might make a generic comment like “I really try not to think too much about food and weight and diet, because I think those are artificial standards that are intended to distract women from important stuff like our work and our communities.” Because that IS what I think, and one of my many joys of working from home is not having to listen to the dieters at lunchtime. Obsess about that stuff if you want, but don’t do it on my time.

    6. anonymous73*

      I would set boundaries. Set up a quick chat with her and explain that her continuous oversharing of personal stuff makes you uncomfortable and you really need her to stop. Provide examples. And then if it happens again, in the moment say “This is the type of conversation that makes me uncomfortable. I really need you to stop.” Make sure to say you NEED her to stop, not that you’d LIKE her to stop. If she continues to brings things up, go to HR. I realize this may be difficult, but if you don’t set boundaries, she’s never going to stop, and hints don’t work with these type of people.

    7. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      Does your Company have employees take periodic mandatory trainings in office decorum and sexual harassment etc.? if so, the next time your boss starts “oversharing”, you can say “Uh Uh, we had training about this” or something to that effect.

  6. Sunflower*

    I’m trying to decide if it’s reasonable to ask for comp time in my new role.
    I work in corporate business development events. I just started a new job and there are 3 weekends in the next 6 months (that are confirmed so far) that I have to work including 2 over the summer (one of these weekends is optional but someone else would have to do it solo and I think it’s a good/easy opp to build up goodwill). This is new to me as in my other corporate jobs, I worked 5 weekends total over the last 7 years. I usually travel over the summer weekends so it’s not ideal but totally understandable and I will do it.

    Since it’s events, I know weekend work is expected sometimes (and I’m fine with that!) but I would like to ask for 1 day off the following week for working the 2 days over the weekend. My other coworker (started during COVID so has only worked 2 live events) said she never thought to ask for comp time so I’m not sure if this is reasonable or normal? Since it was so rare in my last jobs, I never asked but I want to make sure I am setting good precedent from the start and not getting walked over (a difficulty of mine at past roles is being scared of asking for too much so I always feel on eggshells about this stuff)

    1. EngGirl*

      Is there someone on your level you can ask about how this kind of stuff is usually handled? In some offices it’s just considered expected work and part of what you signed on for, in some there’s flexibility that comes with having to work those weekends in the days leading up to or following the event (like so one’s going to give you shit if you leave early the day before, or come in late the day after.). Some places I’m sure do give comp time :)

      I’d start with someone not in your direct chain of command to get a feel.

    2. Hei Hei, the Chicken from Moana*

      Do you get paid overtime for the weekend hours? If so, then no comp time. But if not, then yes, totally reasonable to ask for comp time when working over a weekend.

    3. darlingpants*

      Did you know about weekend work when you negotiated salary/is your salary sort of high? There’s a possibility that weekend work is compensated that way.

      But I think it’s very reasonable to go to your boss and ask something like “I know that everyone’s a little out of practice with in person events since COVID. When we work weekend events is there any flexibility the week before or after to make up for the extra hours?” If you would have to take PTO to get out of weekend hours then I think they should count towards your total hours per week.

    4. Texan In Exile*

      Be careful about this. I totally agree with your point – if you work a weekend, you should get comp time. But be careful who you ask about it. You might have a boss like my old boss.

      I have worked in two different environments where working on weekends was part of the job – one F100 trade shows, other nonprofit international travel. In each case, there was no comp time.

      The nonprofit was the worst: I had to go to Dubai twice and each time, when I had to spend the weekends working there (because their work week starts with Sunday? Saturday? Can’t remember), I not only did not get comp time (including working Thanksgiving weekend one time), I was also expected to be in the office the day after a 16-hour flight home and a ten-hour time change. My boss was very very clear in his expectations.

      1. Green Goose*

        I’m trying to wrap my head around this, so you would work 12 days in a row with no break? Oh man! If I had to work an entire weekend I would definitely not want to work the entire week afterwards, but I’ve been at my company a while and have enough sway to ask for that.

    5. Marketing Unicorn Ninja*

      I think that’s completely reasonable. If you’re properly classified as exempt, you should be able to flex which days are your weekend. Especially in events, I would think this is common, reasonable, and normal.

    6. Purple Penguin*

      Absolutely talk to coworkers at your level in preparation for checking in with your manager. Maybe this is the way things always are in which case there’s either no comp time or of course tehre is and they haven’t communicated it clearly. Maybe this is unusual and they would be flexible about handling it since there’s not a strong precedent. Maybe there’s a highly informal “comp time” in which you leave at 3/4pm as soon as your work is done if you just worked a weekend, basically just self-regulating but flexing your hours in ways that would otherwise not be the norm in your office. If that last is the way things are handled, it’s kind of a pain because 1.5 hours early does not make up for an extra day of work; but if the office is balanced between official “no comp time” policy and unofficial flex hours complaining about it could easily do more harm than good. So start with coworkers, then move to the official request.

    7. Snow Globe*

      One important note to this: if you are in the US and non-exempt it is illegal to offer comp time in lieu of overtime pay. I’m not sure if that is what you are suggesting, but that is one reason you might not see other people taking comp time.

    8. Gnome*

      At least in my industry it’s totally normal to flex days. Think of it as floating your weekend and try asking, “When we work weekends, do we normally take Monday and Tuesday off, or do we do it some other way?”

  7. Toodie*

    Question for the nurse and lab folks of the world! Yesterday I had to have blood drawn in preparation for a CT next week. I’ve had to do this several times over the past year. The woman who took my blood yesterday had that magical touch so I hardly felt anything. I said, “Wow! You’re really good at that!”–which I realize, in hindsight, might be a little condescending. What I meant to convey is that I appreciate how skillful she is at the task, not that I am amazed by her skill. What would be phrasing that you would appreciate in that circumstance? (I have more blood draws in my future.)

    1. Janet Fleming*

      Former lab person here. I don’t think she would have been offended by what you said, but if you want, an alternate statement could be: wow, I hardly felt that!

      1. Lab Boss*

        Seconded- I don’t think most people would be offended by being told they’re good at their job, but if I’m giving a compliment I try to highlight a specific thing they did that I noticed and enjoyed.

    2. Jean*

      That phlebotomist has probably heard soooo much worse than that perfectly innocuous comment. Don’t worry about it. Just a plain old “thanks” is always appreciated though.

    3. mreasy*

      I always tell the phlebotomist when they have a painless draw, as it makes things so much easier for me as a patient. I don’t think your statement was condescending at all!

      1. pancakes*

        I do too. I really appreciate it because I have terrible, annoying little veins (sometimes called “rolling” veins I think?) and I know I’m a difficult draw. Last week a phlebotomist I’ve always been impressed with went through one and left a big bruise, and I know it isn’t lack of skills because she’s been my favorite for, like, 10 years. She’s like a hummingbird.

        I try to drink a lot of water beforehand and that seems to help, but my veins are just not cooperative.

      1. tamarack and fireweed*

        One of my parental units used to say “when someone gives me a compliment I immediately scrutinize the qualifications of the complimenter”. Now that’s harsh and reflects more their insecurities than anything else, but it’s absolutely true that people can use compliments to condescend. Especially people from groups that are the object of stereotyping have to deal with it – imagine some white parent gushing how a kid is *so* well behaved and *so* diligent and hardworking if the kid is from a minority ethnic group that is being negatively stereotyped as unlikely to finish school and overrepresented in kids that get in trouble with the police.

        Genuine compliments, offered with respect of the other human and understanding of the skills involved are a lovely thing that we should practice. We just sometimes have to work a little bit to ensure we’re believable to the person receiving the compliment. That’s what I think the question is about.

        (Usually it helps to personalize it. “Wow, I really like how evenly you hung the wallpaper. I can hardly see the seams, and let me tell you, I’ve seen a lot less attractive outcomes from some of your colleagues.” Or here, the OP has experience with needle sticks and is therefore quite qualified to commend the phlebotomist.)

    6. rkz*

      I just said to a phlebotomist the other day “you’re good, I didn’t even feel that!” I don’t think it was inappropriate because they know that it does sometimes hurt a little (I had to get four different blood draws and every time they said “this will pinch a little” and then also checked to make sure it didn’t keep hurting once the needle was in). So in this case, I think you were fine and you’re probably overthinking it a little :)

    7. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I got an injection last week. I told her, don’t count me down, just stab, and she goes “Ok!” and then she said “All done!” and I said “Wait, what? Seriously? I have never NOT felt an injection the way I just didn’t feel that one. You’re amazing.” and she grinned.

      Blood-wise, I’m a terrible stick, and I tell them that up front. Sometimes they even listen, but they all realize eventually that I know what I’m talking about. I have encountered one, literally, exactly one person EVER to get my vein on the first attempt (and she’s done it multiple times now), and you bet your tail feathers I tell her every time that she’s amazing at what she does and I appreciate her for it.

      1. ShysterB*

        Fellow terrible stick here. I’ve had multiple occasions (giving blood, needing infusions, standard blood draws) where they’ve gone back and forth from one arm to another, or the back of the hand, or the side of the wrist multiple times. The worst ended up with something from the needle perfusing under the surface of my skin and leaving my inner left arm black and blue from mid-upper arm to near the wrist. (Akin to a horrible bruise when the arm-guard slipped during a college archery class.) Also, after multiple attempts, I’ve flunked out of platelet donations.

        A good phlebotomist is worth their weight in gold.

      2. calonkat*

        When they ask me what arm, I now just say “either is fine, but if you might get frustrated after 3 or 4 tries, I’d rather you just used the veins in the back of my hand”

        95% of the time they just go for the back of my hand, which is fine with me. I’ve passed out when people have gotten frustrated and started wriggling the needle. I’ve even had IVs through my hand. Donating blood is the only thing I can’t do, and with my low iron and lack of good arm veins, they just told me not to bother trying anymore :(

      3. MEH Squared*

        I have awful veins myself and I always tell the phlebotomist to use the back of my hand with a butterfly needle. Recently, I was in the hospital and had to have my blood drawn every six hours. I still have the scars from all the sticks (I’m keloid and scar twice as badly as most people.).

        They couldn’t do the back of the hand for all the blood draws in the hospital, unfortunately. I had one really bad stick that was agonizing, but in general, most of them were at least decent. I’ve only had the ‘I didn’t feel a thing!’ once, and it was amazing. I’m afraid I gushed at that phlebotomist.

    8. Nameless in Customer Service*

      I think you’re fine. When I worked in a hospital I made friends with a couple of the phlebotomists and was always delighted when they delightedly told me that a patient told them they were really good at it, whatever the phrasing. Also as a patient with small buried blood vessels I’ve said precisely this and gotten pleased smiles and thanks back.

    9. Nursey Nurse*

      RN here. It makes my day when people tell me I’ve done something well. We get so used to only hearing patients complain that it’s really nice to be complimented. Please don’t worry, I think it’s very unlikely that your comment will be taken as condescending,

    10. Kat Maps*

      I had two wisdom teeth extracted earlier this week — both teeth were out in less than 10 minutes. When the surgeon said I was done I said “Wow! You’re good!” through a very frozen mouth. I felt super dorky for commenting on it, but I genuinely appreciated how good of a surgeon he was! I don’t think there’s anything wrong with complimenting people who help make otherwise unpleasant experiences as smooth as possible.

    11. Sprint*

      As someone who’s worked with the public in a healthcare context, it’s 100% about the intention behind the comment rather than the phrasing. Having a patient express appreciation, whatever the wording, is always lovely! If someone said “You’re good!” with surprise I might give an “I’m glad you think so!” or “Well, I’ve had a lot of practice!” type response but it wouldn’t occur to me to be offended.

    12. tessa*

      I appreciate that you want to be as accurate as possible with your kindness, but in my opinion, you’re overthinking things. It was a lovely compliment, and lovely of you to share it. :)

    13. the cat's ass*

      HCW here. I usually will compliment my fellow HCWs-say, the painless blood draw “Hey that was awesomely painless, thank you! ” Believe me, they appreciate it. Someone complimented me yesterday on explaining their MRI results in a way that was clear and understandable and i felt really good about it! So carry on. You most likely were a bright spot in someone’s day.

  8. Scoffrio*

    Long covid/disability question – I am starting the process of getting ADA accommodations for my long covid symptoms. The problem is, I have no idea what is reasonable to ask for!

    I experience brain fog, fatigue, and chronic coughing regularly. The symptoms are made worse after my body experiences stress (travel, sickness, etc). Right now we’re going in to the office three times a week and get to work from home two times a week on a schedule that is chosen by us but formally approved. Ideally, I would like to not have to adhere to a strict schedule of coming into the office or a number of days that is required, but on the days I’m in the office, it would be helpful to have an office instead of the cubicle I currently have. I’m considering offering that as an either/or ask.

    But are there other things that are within the realm of possibility that I could be asking for?

    1. Adereterial*

      I’m not in the US but I’ve dealt with a large number of what UK law would describe as ‘reasonable adjustments.’ Sometimes employees aren’t sure what they need – sometimes they are very sure what they need (or want).

      I always tell those who aren’t sure to think about what they do at home and out of work to help overcome the same sort of issues, and how that might translate into a work context – a desk bound employee with back problems got regular, scheduled extra breaks to stand and stretch, and a standing desk. Someone struggling with fatigue got some flexibility with start and end times, plus an extended trigger point for sickness absence (essential more days off without triggering a warning for attendance), and I took away some physical elements of the job that weren’t essential too. Someone with dyslexia was given slightly different productivity metrics to meet as they needed longer to read and write information – same for someone with visual impairments who used assistive technologies for screen work.

      If you’re really not sure, is an occupational health referral an option? This is what they’re for!

      1. RagingADHD*

        Seconded. If you look on their website under “A to Z lists” you can search by specific limitations to see suggestions for accommodations that might be helpful.

        For example, if you search “fatigue” you get “Decreased Stamina/Fatigue” as a category, and under that you get suggestions and explanations for everything from equipment (anti-fatigue matting, scooters, ergonomic chairs) to ideas for job restructuring or how to incorporate rest breaks.

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      For ADA it’s a discussion…you and your employer go back and forth on what you need/want and what they can provide. You can ask for anything and they get to counter offer until you both come to an agreement.

      If they don’t have an office to give you, which is possible, you could see if there is a space you could regularly schedule for lie-down breaks while you are in the office — like a conference room with a couch or wellness room — or add one extra WFH day, or split your day (morning in the office and afternoon at home), or if you find that you are better in the morning and just can’t after 3:00, can they reduce your hours so you work 8-3 all the time? Just having the documentation, without a hard solution, might also help protect you on performance evaluations. If there are things that would help the brain fog, like extra rest breaks, or reduced work assignments, organization software, you could certainly ask for those.

    4. Minimal Pear*

      I think you can definitely ask for both flexibility on when you come in, and an office for the days you do come in. There might be some logistical things you have to work out during the accommodation process, but that’s supposed to a very collaborative back-and-forth kind of thing so there’ll be room for you to figure out the details if they do it right.
      I haven’t really needed accommodations in the workplace so I’m trying to think back to school… I know flexible attendance and deadline flexibility were both huge helps with brain fog and fatigue back then. Not sure exactly how well that would translate to the workforce but worth thinking about. Oh, and being given info in alternate formats (written down so I could refer back) and being able to present in different formats (oral presentation instead of written report).

      1. Academic fibro warrior*

        Fibro warrior here! Really what you need is flexibility about where to be when and for how long. Realistically things with hard deadlines and scheduled things that can’t be gotten out of may not give, but flexibility is absolutely key to managing the fatigue which helps ameliorate the brain fog.
        You need permission for intermittent absences at your discretion. You also need time to get everything super organized so you don’t have to spend limited bandwidth on finding or figuring things.
        A relaxation room to be used as needed for a quick nap or just to get out of the flourescent lights? A desk air purifier because you may be more sensitive to dust and mold and perfume than before? A super ergonomic chair with a footstool? Extremely convenient parking (big problem on campus. Most classes I missed were because I knew I wouldn’t be able to make it through class once I got to class)? Tech for speech to text? Paid Grammarly to carry the bulk of editing if you write a lot?

        Any and all small everyday things that were eh but okay before are now energy vampires. List those out and see what can be changed there. Flexibility for doctors appointments, because likely they’ll be higher in number (can you take work with you while you wait in doctor lobbies ?) Do you have meds that you need to take at work and need refrigeration?

        And you’ll get better buy in if you have an explanation of how these things make you a better employee or how you plan to do your work around it . They’ll do the accommodations because they have to but you want them to support you while you adjust to the new you. Or it’s not going to work well if at all.

        Make ABSOLUTELY sure that your doctor is SPECIFIC on his documentation. One charged me $30 for ‘patient needs consideration on parking’ and the ADA office said nope. So I had to walk half a mile from parking to class for grad school. I missed a lot of classes.

    5. Esmeralda*

      Not your question, but:

      Whatever you ask for, remember that you can change it if it’s not working. ADA accommodations are not graven in stone. You’ll have to update paperwork, but that is absolutely your right.

    6. OnetoFindTheGiraffe*

      How much feedback is it reasonable to expect from one’s manager?

      For the first year or so at my job, I had an absentee manager (she was struggling with health issues and so never onboarded me, was never in the office/never checked in on me) who later died. Then there was a period of time while they were looking to fill that role, so I had someone above me to sign my timesheet but that was about it: no guidance, no training, no one who knew my projects I could turn to for support. Now I finally have a manager, and have had her in that role for about six months or so now. She is excellent and a really great manager (and role model!)

      The catch: unfortunately those 6 months she’s been my manager happen to overlap with six months in which I’ve really struggled at work. The first two years at my job I was by all accounts a really strong performer and got lots of good feedback from other execs with whom I worked. The last six months I’ve had two overlapping serious health conditions and some family challenges in my personal life, while also dealing with significant understaffing and new high-priority projects in my professional life. I’ve managed to keep most of the balls in the air and have pulled off the really important things, but the team I manage is in really dire shape, due partially to structural reasons (eternally slow hiring) and partially to choices I made while trying to juggle all this (I should have asked for help sooner).

      Now I’m in a situation where my program is struggling, but I’m working really hard to dig myself out of the hole I’m in. My manager has taken on a lot of the things on my plate, and I’m trying my best to see this as “she’s supporting me” rather than “she’s decided I’m bad at my job and can’t do things!!!” To her credit, she’s been excellent at trying to balance the needs of the organization while trying to support me in my ongoing health challenges.

      But I haven’t gotten any real feedback from her. I hear a lot about how “your program is in trouble and the execs are mad,” and “you should have done x,y,z so you didn’t end up in this state.” But none of that is very… actionable.

      So: okay, message heard & received! I need to fix my program, so I’m working really hard and doing my best to juggle all the balls. (I worked nearly 11 hours yesterday). But how much feedback from her is it reasonable to expect? Should I be expecting “here’s what you specifically need to differently in future”? Should I be expecting “hey, I see how hard you’re working”?

      (Not gonna lie, I could really stand to hear that last one. I’ve been working so damn hard to keep all the balls in the air that it’s really demoralizing to hear only “the execs are really mad” even if that’s true (and reasonable).

      1. OnetoFindTheGiraffe*

        (Sorry, meant to post this on the main thread but managed to post it in reply instead!)

  9. EngGirl*

    I work with a director, not in my chain of command, who has a tendency to put same day meetings at the end of the day. These are rarely emergencies, and if they are urgent they frequently could or should have been dealt with earlier, but we’re left until the last second. These meetings are sometimes in groups but often one in one and when it’s just the two of us they have a tendency to be running late. Frequently, whether due to a late start, the time booked being insufficient to discuss the issue, or lack of an immediate resolution, this person wants to keep pushing beyond our official end time. We are both salaried exempt employees, so it’s not breaking any rules, however my company doesn’t allow any kind of flex time so I try to avoid staying late for anything less than a moderate emergency (we can “pre plan” an hour here and there and make it up but I can’t say “oh hey I stayed an hour late Tuesday, so I’m gonna take a long lunch Or leave early Friday”).

    A couple of times I’ve made up fictitious appointments I need to leave for, but I can’t do that every time. There’s also no real way to gauge how long the meeting or conversation will go over, sometimes it’s 5 minutes which isn’t a big deal, but on more than one occasion it’s been more than an hour. I’ve also tried reminding him of our end time on a couple of occasions when he books late meetings but I’ve basically gotten a response along the lines of “oh I don’t mind staying late” with the implication that I shouldn’t either.

    Any tips, tricks, or thoughts?

    1. Respectfully, Pumat Sol*

      Go in to every meeting with “I have a hard stop at [end of day time]” and give him a five minute warning. “Hey Bruce, I have a hard stop in 5 minutes. Will we be wrapped up by then, or do we need to schedule more time tomorrow?”

      He doesn’t need to know why you have a hard stop, just that you do.

      2. anonymous73*

        I was going to suggest this as well, but know that being a director, his time to meet is probably very limited and you may need to suck it up sometimes and stay late.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Two thoughts – either have a big-picture conversation about trying to maintain a better work-life balance, so you have a hard stop at X time unless it’s a real emergency OR … just state that each time, “oh, I can’t stay past 5:30, can we talk about this tomorrow?” kind of stuff.

      It might also be worth collaborating with your actual manager if they have any ideas on how to push back or whether you can take comp time.

      1. EngGirl*

        My actual manager would not see a problem with this. It’s (very unfortunately) an attitude that is shared by the majority of management at my company. The whole “well why would it be an issue? Your life should basically be about work!”

    3. Massive Dynamic*

      Sounds like that’s his norm and you’ll either have to work around it or address it head-on and see how that goes. I see three options for you based on your risk tolerance:

      1. Tell him you are working on work/life balance and will be leaving the office at X time every day, even go so far as to note that on your work calendar. Risky, but also the most direct method. And if your company is a stickler on start times and lunch times (to the point where you taking a long lunch to balance a long previous day would read as out-of-touch), then why not be your own stickler about the established end time.

      2. Have a fictitious daily recurring gym class that means you need to leave at X time every day. Make sure it’s an out-of-town gym, don’t give much detail in case anyone wants to get nosy about it. Risky as well.

      3. Any chance you can start later on each day so your total hours worked still averages 40? If you can switch a few things you usually do after work to the AM before work, this preserves your w/l balance.

      1. Massive Dynamic*

        Amending #1 since he’s not your direct boss. Per earlier comments, just tell him you have a hard stop each day at X time. He doesn’t need a why.

        1. Artemesia*

          And suggest a meeting time you would prefer. INcluding scheduling this requested meeting the next morning.

      2. Esmeralda*

        I’d have a fictitious appointment rather than the gym class. People like this don’t care because “it’s just a gym class.” They also don’t care about catching public transportation, getting out early enough to avoid traffic, etc.

        If he asks what the appt is for, just wave your hands and say, vaguely, oh, just some health stuff, nothing to worry about but the appt is firm, so I definitely have to leave at 5 sharp. Maybe it’s better to reschedule til tomorrow morning? I’m free at 7:30 am….

        AFter all, it is about your health

    4. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Could you schedule a “daily planning/wrap up” meeting at the end of each day, so that you aren’t available? I have a 30 minute “meeting” with myself from 5-5:30 every day to ensure I have some time to wrap up the day and plan the next, which also means I rarely get other meetings scheduled at that time.

      1. Marketing Unicorn Ninja*

        This is what I do. I have standing appointments with myself first-thing and last-thing every day. On Mondays, the morning one is longer, and on Fridays, the afternoon one is longer; on Monday I prep my week, and on Friday I review it. This is how I manage my time and also my direct report’s schedule, so I can see what’s coming down the pike and what we need to adjust for.

    5. cactus lady*

      A couple of things:

      1. Block out the last half hour on your calendar every day (mark it “unavailable” or “wrap up” or something).
      2. Give them a heads up ahead of time – hey, I can’t stay past 5 (no need to give a reason), will this be sufficient time or should we plan time for tomorrow?
      3. If it goes long and they say “can you stay a few extra minutes?” just say sorry, I can’t, can we put some time on the calendar tomorrow morning?

      I feel like what’s going on is that this is one of those people who always works outside of business hours and they’re just not thinking. It doesn’t have to be A Thing, you can just say no – just make sure to offer alternative time for the discussion.

      1. cactus lady*

        I would like to reiterate that YOU DON’T NEED TO MAKE UP AN EXCUSE. If they press, say it’s a personal matter. They don’t have to know that the personal matter is your work/life boundary.

    6. LadyAmalthea*

      For the one-on-one type meetings, would you be able to suggest meeting times that worm better for you/take initiative to schedule meetings a bit early in the day?

    7. Jean*

      “A couple of times I’ve made up fictitious appointments I need to leave for, but I can’t do that every time.” Yes you can. Standing appointments are a thing. I also like the “hard stop” verbiage suggested in other comments.

    8. Workerbee*

      Echoing the “hard stop” without explanation suggestions, as well as blocking off your time at the end of the day.

      I will add, once you say you have a hard stop, ENFORCE IT – with yourself! Gather up materials, say something gracious about seeing them tomorrow or whatever, and get up and go. Yes, even if the person just drew breath for another stream-of-consciousness barrage. If you don’t follow your own edict, that just trains the other person to think it’s flexible, and they will merrily roll on eating up your time and sanity.

  10. Murfle*

    I need some advice about how to expand my skillset.

    I work for a bank in a tech-like role – I’m not a software developer or product manager, but I work with these roles
    regularly, and my responsibility is to ensure that the content on the bank website/apps is clear and easy to understand. I’ve been working in online content for 10+ years and I know that part of the business well, but I also want to develop other tech-adjacent skills that would make me more attractive in the long term.

    I’m currently in talks with one of the directors on my team about cross-training opportunities, and I’m not sure what I want to do. My concern isn’t *how* to learn how to do something new, but *what* I want to learn. I’m not a programmer or coder – can I still learn about data privacy or cyber security? I’m not a finance professional – can I still learn about interest rates and insurance?

    What new field of knowledge would both make me more recession-proof and cater to my strengths like attention to detail, good writing skills, and a desire for externally imposed structure?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I assume you’re using a content management system – are you just entering information, or are you also doing configuration and management of the CMS? If you aren’t doing that stuff, that’s an excellent area to expand into. Lots of companies use a CMS for things besides publishing to a website.

    2. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Maybe user experience? I’m not in the field, I’ve just worked with some great people who do, and it was the first thing that came to mind after your description of what you do.

      1. Baeolophus bicolor*

        Agreed, it sounds like you’re doing user experience work. Not sure what your title is or what your tools are, but expanding into technical writing and the visual side of UX could be a good move. For both of those, learning DITA, HTML, and CSS are very transferable technical skills and while they are technically coding, they’re relatively easy and there are lots of great resources to learn from.

      2. ErgoBun*

        Absolutely! I’m in User Experience and that would be a great bridge skill. Learning some HTML and CSS won’t go wrong, as it will help you understand how best to present and lay out your web content. UX will help you learn how to make that content usable, findable, and delightful for your users. And, there are lots and lots of great courses and opportunities to learn because UX is a growing field.

        If you have LinkedIn Learning available, start there with some intro to User Experience courses. My favorite organization/source for learning is UIE, formerly known as User Interface Engineering, which is helmed by Jared Spool, a genuinely nice person and one of the earliest pioneers of this field.

        I’ll try to check in later if there are additional questions about UX!

    3. blue orange planet*

      Information security (GLBA, Appendix B to Part 364 of FDIC Rules and Regs) would be what I’d suggest. It’s data privacy with a focus on regulatory requirements. You don’t need to be a coder/programmer. If you have basic IT understanding, you’ll be able to pick it up. Look at the FFIEC IT Handbook for Infosec for more info.

      – works in regulatory banking field

    4. Jigsaw*

      Someone just wrote into Alison saying that the role of privacy specialist is in great demand right now. Maybe your company would even pay for the certificate that was mentioned in that post a few days ago?

      My company has a director of compliance and privacy who started as a technical writer and now only works on the privacy portions of legal and technical documents. The need for privacy people is certainly there!

    5. Parenthesis Dude*

      There’s a difference between being a programmer and knowing how to program, and the latter does have value. Just like learning about interest rates and stuff will help you with the finance people. Find the group you’re most interested in learning about, and train with them. It’s not that you’ll replace them, it just will help you talk with them because you’ll see where they’re coming from.

    8. Eleanor Shellstrop*

      I work for a bank as well. If you are interested in data privacy or cybersecurity then I highly recommend pursuing learning in this space, even better if you can get a certificate relevant for your jurisdiction. These skills are not only crucial in banking, but areas I see asked for in many different sectors, so it would highly increase your skill set. Risk and compliance adjacent roles have a low chance of automation as well, most regulators require banks at least to have a specific level of oversight, so there’s fairly good job security there.

  11. Potential employer asking for candidate feedback*

    Hi! I completed a second interview with a potential employer (which was the third video call I had with them).

    The day after, I emailed a “Thank you” note. They responded by sending me a “Candidate Experience form” with a survey on the hiring process. They noted it would not impact any applications in progress.

    I had a feeling after the interview it wasn’t my best performance (it was also at 6AM for me due to a time zone difference).

    Is the form/survey they provided basically letting me know I didn’t get the role?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      No I don’t think so. I think they’re just collecting feedback and not giving much thought to when in the process they’re doing it (or giving that a lot of thought, and not thinking about how it might be read on the other side).

      If you didn’t get the role they probably aren’t going to play passive games about it.

    2. Doctors Whom*

      No it is not. You should not read anything into getting this survey at all.

      They are trying to gather data on candidate experience with different aspects of their hiring process so they can learn from the candidate’s perspective what went well and what did not. We take in this kind of feedback too, though I don’t know what mechanisms we use.

    3. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      Hard to say, I’ve only gotten those after I was officially rejected. Which, maybe sending them prior to any decision would be more accurate. I can’t imagine people giving favorable or honest ratings after being rejected. I do, but I know a lot of people take rejections very hard and personally.

    5. Voluptuousfire*

      Depends. If the ATS the company uses is Greenhouse, there is a box you can check in the rejection status function that a candidate survey goes out to them in a few days. If they’re a Greenhouse ATS user, then yeah, I’d say you’ve likely been rejected and should receive an email about it.

    6. iliketoknit*

      Nope. If they want to let you know you didn’t get the role, they will just tell you that you didn’t get the role. Or they may (regrettably) ghost you, but that has nothing to do with asking for feedback on the hiring process. Presumably they want feedback on the hiring process from everyone who goes through it, whether hired or not.

    7. Sunflower*

      I just interviewed/accepted a new job and I think I got a survey after literally every interview. Don’t read too much into it!

  12. ThatGirl*

    For the last 11 years, my husband has been a counselor at a small urban university, working in their counseling center. It’s a small team, the staff across the university almost never got raises, and he was definitely underpaid – but, he liked the work, he liked his coworkers, and the benefits were solid. So he stayed. But over the last few years, things have gotten more frustrating and they’ve gotten less support from the administration.

    Over the course of the last academic year, things really got miserable – they were down a counselor, the wait list was long, the new director is not a good manager, and so on and so forth. My husband had already applied somewhere new but wasn’t hearing back; then his coworker put in her notice (about two months’ worth, normal for academia) and got walked out the same week. He was starting to despair a bit.

    And then, over the course of the past three weeks, he got interviews from both places he’d applied and an offer from one (and the other is currently checking his references! but he already took the first offer). It’s closer to home, a much more supportive atmosphere, a fully staffed department AND…. a 57% raise. He’ll start in mid-July most likely.

    Jobs like his aren’t super common, even in big metro areas, but there is hope!

    3. SnappinTerrapin*

      Congratulations. I hope he waits to give minimal notice. The director doesn’t deserve extra time to plan for filling the vacancies.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Oh yes I forgot to mention that if he leaves before the end of June (fiscal year) he gets 5 weeks of vacation paid out. After July 1 it would only be one week.

    4. Leonineleopard*

      Congrats to your husband, thank you for taking the time to share this very inspiring story!

  13. Disappearing Emails*

    Yesterday I submitted a grant proposal to a local foundation via email. Recently I learned that an email I sent went into someone’s spam folder, though, so I’m a little concerned that the same might happen to my grant proposal. Should I try to find a phone number and call them? Our director is a member of the foundation, but I think she’s pretty out of touch with their goings on—should I see if she can ask around anyway?

    I don’t want to be clingy, but I don’t want to miss out on a grant because my email went to spam.

    2. TPS reporter*

      I think it’s worth calling the foundation to make sure they got your proposal. They are in the business of giving grants and will want to know that they’re getting all potential applicants. I wouldn’t go through your director, contacting the administration directly is appropriate.

      1. Artemesia*

        A grant proposal should ALWAYS get an acknowledgement for just this reason — any professional operation will send you an email noting it is received. So if you don’t get this, follow up to make sure they have it.

        1. Ama*

          Yes, as someone who runs a grant application — we actually put in our application materials that all applicants will receive an acknowledgment email from our submission system and note that they should check their spam filter if they don’t receive it. However, I’ve never had a problem double checking for an applicant if they call/email us to confirm we received it.

          1. Dragon*

            This was an extreme situation, but a musician didn’t find out for ages he’d been offered a prestigious opportunity. By the time he did, it was long gone.

            His then-girlfriend saw the message in their shared email account first, and deleted it because she didn’t want him to leave her for the opportunity.

    3. Disappearing Emails*

      Update: They don’t have a phone number. Can I send an email via my personal email address to follow up instead? Would mentioning spam just get it marked as spam?

      1. Nesprin*

        Look up the grant officer and try to find a phone number. They want to get your application, and if lost in span is a detriment to getting good proposals they want to know.

  14. hmmm*

    My friend posted this last week when on the long weekend for Memorial day. It was late in the afternoon and she was hoping to get some additional advice. Her work heavily monitors her computer so she asked me to post.

    Special shout out to “VP of Monitoring Employees’ LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*” for answering.

    How do you turn down a counter offer? I work for an amazing company, amazing mentors, amazing coworkers… I can’t say enough about them. Now I’ll admit that no company is perfect, but overall I love where I am. I feel like the little things that annoy me aren’t earthshattering, but anytime they have come up naturally in conversation nothing is ever done. I have a few things going on personally as well that make things working at this company becoming more and more challenging – said nuances, a long commute, a family situation. A few weeks ago after a tough professional and personal day, on a whim I applied to a job I literally found that day online. Imagine my surprise 5 weeks later they made me an offer I can’t turn down. I never thought I would ever get such compensation. DOn’t get me wrong there were some compromises, step downs in some areas, major step ups in others and negotiations but overall it’s an out of this world offer. My current employer is going to be shocked. I think they might come back to me with a counteroffer given some upcomeing projects. How do I say it’s not you, it’s just time for me to move on. On top of all this I have to give notice while my boss is on vacation. Help!

    1. Lemon*

      I did this a few months back, except the boss being on vacation part. I told my managers that this is a new direction that I’m excited to take my career in and I’m excited for the opportunities that it would provide. I kept repeating this like a broken record every time they asked so they didn’t get the chance to prepare a counteroffer :) but yeah, I would say just be firm and steadfast in your reason for leaving, if you’re not interested in a counter. Congratulations on the new job!

      2. Not VERY disorganized*

        Happened to me! I got contacted by my current employer and an offer the day before my annual review! I accepted it. During my review, I started it off saying: I am very interested in your feedback, but I also have to let you know that I just accepted an offer and am giving my 3 week notice. Jaws dropped! But I was paid massively under market. They asked me where I was going, what compensation and benefits were on offer, then finally if there was anything they could offer that would make me reconsider. Because of Alison’s cautions on this very topic I said there was not, as I believed accepting a counter offer made everything awkward. Also that i hoped that I would be eligible for rehire some day because I really loved the firm. There was much enthusiasm, and because I do love that firm, I did everything I possibly could to help my replacement ease in. Her starting salary was almost what I left for, and someone else in the dept got a massive raise and more vacation time shortly after I left. I felt empowered to be able to say ‘thank you, but no, and I wish you all success in the future!’

    2. DeeDee*

      “I wasn’t expecting this, but I’ve had a great offer come through and after a lot of careful deliberation I’ve decided to accept it. I really value the experience and relationships I’ve built here, but I’m ready for a new challenge.”

    3. ABK*

      You just say “No, thank you.” It’s as simple as that. Your mind is made up, you are giving notice, and your last day will be X. You enjoyed working there, learned a lot, etc.

    4. anonymous73*

      “I appreciate the offer, but this is an opportunity I can’t pass up.” People leave and if the ones you work for are reasonable they’ll understand. If they’re unreasonable, then there’s nothing else you could say that would make it better for them or for you.

    5. Leandra*

      Hmmm, congratulations to your friend!

      If she’s able and willing to share, I’d be interested in hearing some of the compromises and step-downs of her new job. I may make a late-career job change, and if I do I’ll have to live with my choice until retirement.

      So I’ll have to choose my compromises carefully. For instance, someone commented in another post that they regretted taking a job with less PTO, and were looking again for that reason.

      1. Hmmm*

        My friend is taking less vacation time, but gets more federal holidays, flexibility with hours, hybrid working, less commute, better benefits (medical dental vision retirement). She feels if it’s “horrible “ she will switch after a year

  15. Lemon*

    Thought of this question after reading today’s post about the LW whose company doesn’t do performance reviews or raises. What does a raise for a top performer look like at your company, in terms of the percentage? Does it vary as per region or industry?

    1. Alex*

      A yearly raise for an excellent worker at my workplace is 3%. MAYBE in extenuating circumstances, they might be able to give you 3.5% if you were incredible and did something extraordinary.

      A yearly raise for a mediocre worker at my workplace is 3%. If you really and truly dropped the ball and had severe performance issues maybe you’d get 2.5%

      There’s a big to-do about how your raise is tied to performance, but it is all for show and at the end of the day pretty much everyone gets 3% no matter how good or bad they were.

    2. mlem*

      I’m in software in New England. My company reviews annually, I’m considered a top performer, and going back to 2013, my annual raises have ranged from 1.35% to one year with a whopping 3.16%. My company is … not great on salary, though, and every 5-7 years they have to scramble to try to fix hiring salaries and then deal with the resulting discrepancies. They just did a catch-up sequence for me that works out to about 7% total … relative to two years ago, because they skipped a year.

      I sincerely hope my company is not typical, because that would be too depressing.

      1. anon for this one*

        Oof. I am also in software in New England, and there is definitely better out there in the same market!

      2. darlingpants*

        My husband got almost a 10% merit raise (and then got a promotion with another raise) in software in New England so while I think his performance cycle was atypically high, I think yours is also atypically low.

    3. Purple Penguin*

      Annual COL raise is set at full-corporate level (5000+ employees), usually 3% or so. At annual appraisal time, manager level sorts employees into bell curve: bottom 2% PIP, low 20% , center 55%, 20% “very good”, 2% “truly top performers”, and that might span 2.5 to 3.5%. So you get very very little for being a top performer – 0.5% more than being “average” which is really not much incentive at all. BUT they do have recognition outside of the appraisals cycle, there are bonuses (structured events – get a patent, win an industry award, etc) and award (annual excellence awards) presumably incentivize top performers. And I have heard of a one-time “congratulations on an excellent project” $5k, and of a “congratulations on truly excellent performance” $4k annual bump, and of a “we’d give you a promotion but there’s not a suitable job title, here’s an extra 5%”, I think it’s a different bucket of money from COL and I don’t know how managers get regional bonus money onto their teams, presumably involves managerial jello wrestling.

      That overall structure is true of the two places I’ve worked and of comparable places I’ve discussed with friends (think corporate R&D) though the exact numbers vary of course

    4. Susie Q*

      So my average merit increases at my company range from 3-5%. We do them every year after performance reviews. I’m pretty sure managers get hire percentages because my merit this year was 10% and it was my first year as a manager.

    5. Anon for This*

      I am considered a top performer in my role and overall in the business.
      Last year I got an 8% raise, the business was allocating 3% per person(so some get more than 3%, some get less than 3% and then there’s an additional pool of money to distribute for higher performers and for equity balancing)
      This year we’re hearing the allocation will be about 4.5-5% per person and I would expect to get a 7-8% raise.

      I don’t think this is typical? I would say that as a top performer I do expect to receive at least 1% above the allocation because that 5% allocation is the percentage 80% of the business would expect to receive(so the top 10% gets more and the bottom 10% gets less than the allocation %)

      Note that we don’t have open salary info but we are told what the overall allocation is

    6. Flash Packet*

      In my company, unless you get promoted your merit raise is a COLA, which this year was 4%. The only reason to kill yourself here trying to outshine your peers is if you want to get promoted sooner rather than later.

      I did not know this until this year’s performance review (I started in 2020, so this is only my 2nd annual review). So, since a real merit raise was off the table, I negotiated for an additional week of PTO.

    7. Irish Teacher*

      I am a teacher, so our raises are automatic based on number of years (in Ireland; other countries may be different). How we perform is not relevant. We basically go up a point each year. The rates are available here: https://www.asti.ie/your-employment/pay/salary-scales/pre-2011-common-basic-scale/

      We do not get performance reviews and indeed do not really have anybody who evaluates our performance in the way I see described here. Inspectors visit schools every so often and give recommendations, but they don’t get a say on what teachers are paid and their advice is more to a department or school as a whole than to individual teachers, though they do speak to any teacher whose class is inspected. So far, mine has never been.

    8. Generic Name*

      From what I can tell, your raise tracks to your performance evaluation rating. So if you get a 3, which is “meets expectations” at my company, you get a 3 percent raise. 5 is the highest rating, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some super top-performers get more.

    9. MPH Researcher*

      At my company, the annual merit/COL raise is 2% for competent performers, 3.5% for above average performers. I can request up to a 5% raise for top performers as part of this process as well (can be on top of the 3.5% depending on budget allowances). Anything more the 5% needs extra-special approval and justification and is rarely granted.

      As another data point, people being promoted have the raise capped at 13%, as long as that puts them at or above the minimum of the range for the new position. Again, we can go above 13% with extra-special approval/justification, but that is rare.

      While better than some places I’ve been, this definitely isn’t keeping up with inflation/the current market. I’m trying to request an off-cycle raise for a top performer right now, as they are definitely underpaid for the market even though they’ve only been here ~8 months. We’ll see how it goes!

    10. Bexx*

      Our salary increases are based on performance and where a person falls in their salarty range. The highest raise someone could get (without a promotion) would be 9%. This would be for a truly exceptional performer (5 on a 1-5 scale where a 3 is meets expectations/doing a great job) who is at the bottom of their salary range. An average performer (at a company of overachievers) who is near the midpoint of their salary range would get 3%. It’s all very transparent and the chart is laid out in our compensation strategy, available to all employees and sent out at least once a year.

  16. anon e mouse*

    So I think I’m going to take an offer for 40% above my current salary. Which rules. Dreading working out the details with my current job, but I know I can’t make the decision on that basis.

    1. irene adler*

      Good for you!!! Keep your eye on the long-term i.e. the new position. Remember that the current job will be in the rear view mirror soon enough.

    2. Midwest Manager*

      Congrats on the job offer! Remember not to get overly swayed by dollar signs though. Make sure that the other aspects of the offer are worth your consideration (benefits, culture, commute, etc.). Good luck!

      1. anon e mouse*

        25-30% shorter commute, slightly worse but still way above average benefits (some current benefits are god-tier), culture is hard to assess from outside but no major red flags. But yeah, I do appreciate the advice.

        1. Midwest Manager*

          Glad that it seems like a good fit! As far as working out details with your current employer, repeat this to yourself x100: “Not my problem anymore.”

    3. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      I just gave my boss my notice Wednesday, and it was hard but I just had to rip off the bandaid and so it. I do like my job, it really is great and I am sad about leaving. But some personal family stuff and adding in an acquisition where my job could drastically change, moving one was necessary. She was very happy for me and totally understood. But it still sucked. But a huge weight was lifted once I did it. Congratulations and good luck!

  17. HatBeing*

    My entire team is out with Covid and I am isolating at home due to exposure. Luckily I can work from home, but stay safe out there folks. We aren’t done with this yet. <3

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Yeah, a coworker of ours just tested positive and another, who spends more time with him than the rest of us do and also rides public transport, has a sore throat and cough. I’m doing a home test this evening, but I guess I’m staying off the bus again for awhile despite gas prices.

    2. Cookie*

      So sorry to hear that, and I hope you’re feeling better soon!

      Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one still being cautious. I’m doing it to avoid scenarios like this one, for me/my team and for people in general.

      1. Jess*

        Not to derail the conversation, and I’m genuinely curious, but do you all think it would be better for non immune-compromised people to just get it and beat it at this point? From what I’m hearing the new variants are less and less severe, and we can’t isolate forever. Do you all think that would help the country get healthier more quickly? I know I had it twice even though I’m vaccinated, and the second time was much much better than the first. Just curious!

        1. Just another queer reader*

          What I’m hearing from the experts is: COVID is likely to be circulating for a very long time; we’ll all probably get it multiple times throughout our life.

          Each time a person gets COVID, they’re at risk for getting long COVID, severe illness, or other bad outcomes.

          And, the more virus circulating, the more likely our vulnerable friends and family and neighbors will get sick.

          So, while COVID is going to be with us for a long time, risk reduction still matters!

          (I highly recommend Your Local Epidemiologist – newsletter on Substack- for great info on COVID.)

          1. Flash Packet*

            YLE’s newsletter is also posted to her FB page and you can sign up to get it in your email. And, yes, she has great COVID (and other public health) info.

        2. Dust Bunny*

          No, since that doesn’t guarantee they won’t get it again, anyway.

          Also, I live with my elderly, immunocompromised parents and one of my coworkers has a baby and a toddler. We really, really, do not want to bring it home.

          1. Dust Bunny*

            Yes, I also get flu shots, but I still wear a mask and wash my hands, etc., to try to avoid getting the flu.

            1. Cookie*

              Right – I always did wash my hands, avoid sick people and crowded spaces etc. but now I have a mask too. I don’t want to get sick, I don’t want to spread it to people who are vulnerable. Any kind o sick.

        3. HatBeing*

          It’s not that the variants are less severe, it’s that folks are vaccinated, which leads to greater immune response. I work for a lab that has done significant research for Covid over the past 2 years so we get regular updates (although I am admin not a scientist!).
          I also don’t isolate (except for the next few days to see if I test negative!), but I do wear a KN-95 at work. I have underlying medical conditions that would probably increase my symptoms, one of my team members is immunocompromised, and I have any number of co-workers with little kids under 5 who can’t be vaccinated yet. Isolation is not the answer, but taking actions to protect folks who may have a more severe reaction may be.
          Everyone’s response to the variants is different, viruses are weird! Glad you didn’t have any major issues.

        4. Internist*

          Not sure there’s such a thing as ‘get it and beat it’–seems like the evidence is that an infection only protects you for about 3 months. Not everyone is comfortable with potentially being re-infected so frequently, and not everyone’s second case is milder.

          However, if people are comfortable taking on that risk for themselves, that’s up to them. What really drives me crazy is coworkers who knowingly expose others when they’re sick or have symptoms–that happened in my workplace a few weeks ago. (We get plenty of sick leave, and are 100% set up for hybrid work with no expectation of coming into the office, so there was really no reason for this individual to come in.)

        6. Irish Teacher*

          I definitely don’t think that. Getting it does not prevent one from getting it again, so I see absolutely no benefit to doing so. Definitely wouldn’t help the country get healthier. It would mean more people sick with long covid.

          Sorry to hear you had it twice. Thankfully, I have not had it yet and hope to avoid it for as long as possible. I am guessing the more often one gets it, the higher the risk of getting long covid at some point, though I don’t know for sure whether that is true or whether everybody who will get long covid gets it the first time?

          I can see no benefit at all to just getting covid any more than I can see a benefit to everybody just getting the flu. It won’t reduce the need for restrictions in the future. No, we can’t isolate forever and at least in my country, isolation has been really over since February. But I think the answer to this is continuing to wear masks in what seem like risky situations, keeping up to date with our vaccinations and maintaining good hygiene and social distancing where possible – by which I mean not crowding into small spaces – and of course, ensuring good ventilation/keeping windows open where possible, etc, rather than just getting sick.

          I also don’t think it’s possible for all non immune-compromised people to get it without all immune-compromised people also getting it, unless we lock everybody with any kind of health risk away permanently. And immune-compromised people are a bigger group than many people seem to suggest. It includes those who are over 70, those considered obese, those with asthma, diabetes, possibly those who are pregnant, those on certain medications, etc. If everybody around them has it, they will almost certainly get it too.

        7. mlem*

          As everyone else has said, no, it doesn’t work that way.

          Also, long Covid rates seem to range from 10%-30% per bout, and vaccination only seems to lower your risk of that by about 15%.

          Also, I know someone who just caught it despite being boosted, and he already has pneumonia from it. He’s not hospitalized, so he counts as a “mild case”, but he’s on antibiotics for the pneumonia, and some of us are allergic to the antibiotics used for that. It’s not risk-free to just catch Covid to try to get it over with, in numerous ways that don’t tend to get talked about.

        8. Alice*

          No one is asking us to isolate forever. (Well, you could say that by allowing unrestrained community transmission, we are implicitly asking high-risk folks to isolate forever, but that’s not what most people mean;))
          But we could do some things – forever – that would reduce COVID impacts. Paid sick leave and improved ventilation — we should start those policies now and keep doing them forever, yes. Wearing high-quality masks in indoor public spaces *when we know that there are many COVID cases in our communities *– yes, we should keep doing that forever too. In a workplace context, since this is a workplace blog, think about the benefits of controlling COVID transmission. Reduced absenteeism, fewer employees dealing with Long COVID, fewer situations where a department faces a staff shortage because some people get sick and the others get exposed.

        9. bunniferous*

          My husband and I both just got over Covid.

          I think if you can avoid getting it you should. I am happy to have natural immunity now but it was not fun. And there is always some risk of complications. But in my mind I feel the same way about the flu.

        10. tessa*

          Not everyone is compatible with isolation, but as an introvert without social anxiety, I am happy to isolate, especially since more Americans than not have decided that mass shootings are par for the course and we should all get over it.

          But to your point, I disagree that it would be best to contract covid as a means of getting back to normal.

        11. Jora Malli*

          The problem is that your immune system is strong enough to build a good number of antibodies that provide a measure of protection from reinfection (at least for a time), and an immunocompromised or immunosuppressed person’s immune system is not. Even if covid were a one-and-done illness for people with healthy immune systems, it would still be different for immunocompromised people because their bodies can’t respond to illness in the way that yours does.

          Also, “get it and beat it” isn’t what’s going to happen for a lot of immunocompromised people. They’re going to get it and they’re not going to beat it, and I’m not willing to risk my family’s lives that way.

        12. Jean*

          I remain on the side of “keep doing what you can to avoid catching it.” Lower rates of spread are still better for everyone. I made it 2 years into the pandemic before I had it, and I was lucky enough to have been vaxed by then, and I had mild symptoms and haven’t noticed any lingering effects. But I’m still masking in crowded public spaces, handwashing frequently, and plan to get a 4th shot when I can. To me it’s just part of being sensible and taking decent care of my overall health.

        13. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

          No, because getting it now doesn’t mean you won’t get it again later, where “later” may be within a few months. In particular, a prior infection with earlier variants isn’t good protection against omicron, and antibodies against omicron may not protect you from the eventual pi, rho, or sigma variant.

          Also, even the milder variants seem to lead to long covid in a significant number of cases. You may not be able to avoid the increased risk of diabetes, or the brain fog, or [long list of other things] forever, but that doesn’t seem like a good reason to run out and get them now.

        14. Maggie*

          I’ve had it and I’d definitely recommend trying not to get it, but here’s the thing, I got it from someone at a small gathering of all vaccinated people many who were boosted. Went to a concert with thousands of people the week before and was fine. So unless you truly isolate like it’s March 2020, you may just end up with it.

        15. Cookie*

          One of my close friends is a triple organ transplant recipient. What if I “just get it” and in the period before I show symptoms, I take him out for coffee (he’s also legally blind, so I always drive when we do this)? And then I infect him? How many strangers are there who are in just as bad a predicament as his, and I could infect them too…no, I don’t think it’s best for everyone to just get it. We can recover and just get it again and again and again, and each time infect more vulnerable fellow humans…or we could just not, you know?

    3. Temperance*

      Fingers crossed that you don’t catch it! I was exposed at the -first- in-person large meeting I attended since March 2020.

    4. Flash Packet*

      I wear a dorky-looking N95 all day long on the days I go into the office. I end up with a dehydration and pressure headache by early afternoon but I’d rather have that than COVID.

      I’ve seen maaaaaybe two other people at my corporate office campus wearing a mask. And theirs were just the pleated “surgical” masks. Everybody is just breathing on each other for hours on end. Waves of COVID wash through departments but, since no one has died (because of vaccines), everybody is still good going maskless.

      My elderly, immunocompromised mother and my disabled brother live with me. They’re vaccinated, but we won’t know how well the vaccines work in their bodies until/unless they get infected. And that’s not an experiment I’m comfortable facilitating. So I wear an American-made, NIOSH-approved N95 whenever I go inside a building that isn’t my own house.

      I’ve gone to two team lunches since we returned to the office part-time, and each time I’ve sat at the end of the table with my mask on the entire time and ordered my food to-go.

      We’re traveling to Europe for work in September and I’m dreading having a mask on continuously for the 9-hour flight plus, at minimum, one hour on each end in airport terminals. I’m going to end up being very hungry and very thirsty.

  18. Elle*

    How do you get your teams to check their email and Teams messages on a regular basis? It drives me crazy that my staff regularly miss company announcements, meeting registrations etc because they forget to look at their email and Teams. It’s an annoying part of being a supervisor. Our jobs don’t get flooded with messages so that’s not the issue.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      Have you addressed it as a performance expectation? My team understands that “I didn’t check the announcements” is not an excuse for delivering incorrect information, missing an important meeting, etc.

    2. Annie Nonimus*

      My first thought is how much of their jobs is at their computer? For example, I am at my computer with my email and teams open literally my entire work day, but someone who works as say a Teapot Creator might be spending most of their work day at the pottery wheel. In that case, I might suggest carving out time for checking on email/messages as part of their work day. That could be true too of someone who’s doing computer work all day but isn’t dedicating time to checking their messages. I think you’ll have better luck if you sit down with your people individually and address the issue. “You’ve missed several important meetings because you didn’t see the email. Let’s work out a better flow to your work day so that this doesn’t happen again”.

      1. Elle*

        We are on the computer all day and I’ve addressed it with my employees. They haven’t missed meetings but it’s the constant reminders to be sure they’ve seen the meeting invite or the important HR announcement. The message is sitting in their in boxes and they’ve completely ignored it/missed it. We have annual evals coming up. I’d like to come up with a plan so I don’t need to micromanage them.

        1. Annie Nonimus*

          Stop reminding them. If they miss a meeting or don’t follow up on something because they’re ignoring their email, they need to feel the consequences of that.

          2. cat socks*

            Agree. Also my manager goes over announcements like this in our weekly staff meetings.

          3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            Yup. My previous manager kept coddling and hand-holding and reminding everyone the whole five years I was with that team, and because the manager reminded everyone of everything rather than enforce the “check your email three times a day” policy, nobody had any reason to change what they were doing.

          5. Dragonfly7*

            Agreed. Currently frustrated with a coworker who is technically on a cross-department committee with me but doesn’t attend the meetings or respond to messages about the projects. I’m over trying to save them from themself.

    3. Megan*

      Can you set your expectations that they check X times per day, and then hold people to it as a requirement of their job?

      You could also ask them what the barriers are to checking their emails. Maybe they will raise some issues you weren’t aware of.

    4. TPS reporter*

      For the staff that are forgetting, ask them to set set aside a specific time every day for emails/chats and institute a rule that all emails/chats have to be reviewed and/or answered (if they need answering) within 48 hours. Just be clear with your expectations.

    5. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Carrot and stick. Are there metrics you have the ability to track on this and set goals? Carrot: The person who responds to messages/email within X hours, or the most consistently, gets some sort of weekly/monthly reward. The person who doesn’t ever respond, or is consistently missing things, has to complete an online training course on Teams.

      Some of this might indicate a need for training for everyone…do people consistently @ a person they want to message…I will eventually see a message that doesn’t @ my name or a specific Team I belong to, but probably not for several hours. My team idly chats at various times of the day, but I @ someone when I need their attention. Do they have Teams/Email set to allow notifications in both the app and their computer preferences? Make that a requirement.

    6. Purple Penguin*

      At a large company with a lot of announcements, it can be hard to weed out relevant things from irrelevant. If an employee is getting multiple emails/day from similar sources (HR, C-suite admin, events team) about semi-interesting non-critical things (congratulations to Maryland office on team award, training course on software X available, weekly IT bulletin, parking lot paving expect delays) and sometimes one of those is an essential piece of information (facilities power shut down this weekend will result in loss of data if you do not power off computers on Friday!) that can be difficult to parse. You’re not just asking them to pay attention to the important email (1/week) you’re asking them to pay attention to 25 emails/week and judge the relevance of each one.
      My manager does highlight those events either verbally in our weekly meetings or by re-forwarding the email to the team with the one-sentence expectation (“remember to shut down computers this afternoon!”). Yes it’s hand-holding, but it’s effective. You could also build a culture of team leads distributing information; maybe it’s not a performance expectation for every employee (especially junior employees might not know what’s important or how to deal with it!) but it’s part of having seniority on a project that they’d make sure their team sees the critical deadlines. Or maybe what you want is a casual network where people actually talk about the updates they get, which helps junior employees learn to parse official language into relevant tasks. But I don’t think it’s necessarily the right perspective to think of it as “my employees don’t check their email regularly” (maybe it is, I don’t know your company culture… but the situation I describe is the one I live with!)

    7. Anonaly*

      Any chance it’s email fatigue/information overload (like sending something through both email and Teams and likely with multiple reminders), or the organization sends so many non-important emails that the important ones are outright dismissed? It strikes me as possibly more of an organizational issue since it appears to be your entire staff having the issue vs one or two folks.

      FWIW, I once worked adjacent to an administrator who sent out a brief email newsletter each Friday that had all the important stuff listed in very plain font and formatting, which worked really well with a staff of 50…1/3 of whom once missed 15+ emails/campus announcements/departmental announcements preparing for an emergency situation simulation that left them locked-in on campus for 3 hours. No one was surprised about this, because the staff was notorious for never reading their emails.

    8. Jean*

      I can’t even imagine how this would work in my job. I’m picturing my manager’s face if I told her I missed something because I didn’t check my email or Teams all day yesterday and it’s just… I’m stifling a laugh.

      Anyway. If they aren’t facing any consequences, and you’re still accepting “I didn’t do an important part of my job because I forgot/didn’t feel like it/whatever” as an excuse, then it’s going to continue. Have a meeting where it’s made very clear that keeping up with communications is a vital and required part of their work, and that you will no longer be accepting that excuse. Name the specific consequence for each infraction – formal write up, forfeiture of a perk, whatever – and then start enforcing them.

      1. Anonymous Koala*

        This. Warn them – really warn them, formally and specifically – once more, then start giving consequences.

    10. anonymous73*

      Set expectations and let them deal with the consequences of ignoring important things. We get reminders from every direction at my job to do everything and it’s annoying AF. Let people be adults and pay the price for ignoring something that they’re expected to do.

    11. beach read*

      Are your teams under severe deadlines or production number expectations?
      I can tell you that sometimes I don’t take the time to read company announcements, etc. because I haven’t reached my goal for the day. Of course, I understand the importance of all of these emails but frankly, those things are pushed to a day when I have more time to read them. Nature of the business is that some days are easier than others to meet my goal, so I prioritize in that way.

    12. Cascadia*

      Any chance your team is billable and has to account for all of their time, and email/teams messaging does not count towards billable hours? A friend of mine has to account for her time in 15 minute chunks and is expected to be billable to clients 90-95% of her time. Oh, and email, all-staff meetings (of which they have daily meetings!) and messages don’t count towards that utilization rate. When she brought this up with her grandboss he just said “checking your email is part of being a professional”. Basically she’s being forced to work more than 40 hours just to keep up with general admin tasks, including emails. Anyways, I find it absurd that her company is so stringent on this – it’s not like she’s reading emails for fun! That’s work too! Make sure that your employees actually have time in their day to check their email/messages and respond to things, that won’t detract from their main job duties.

  19. DeeDee*

    I have an interview for an internal role this afternoon. It feels a bit weird: the hiring manager, who is interviewing me, is someone I work with closely and quite frequently. We had a couple of meetings yesterday (including with my current manager) and it was kind of weird having regular, business-as-usual conversations knowing the interview was coming. And now I’m thinking–do I need to dress like I would for an external interview? Do I need to be more formal?

    The job itself is a lateral move but I’d no longer have a team to manage. That’s kind of appealing to me. I love my team, but I don’t like the admin work. I’m hopeful this will shake things up for me a bit and give me a chance to learn some new stuff. I’ve been on the same team for 5+ years (with progressive advancement). Change is scary but I think I need to shake myself up a bit.

    1. TheOtherJennifer*

      Good luck! If it were me, I would do a Friday dressy business casual – maybe a blouse/blazer with jeans (if it’s in person) if it’s virtual – same on the top – no sweatshirts or tshirts.

    2. Jellyfish*

      Yes, dress up and treat like any other interview. It will be a bit weird and awkward, but most interviews are weird and awkward in some capacity.

      I’ve been on the hiring committee side of internal interviews, and we all acted more formally during the “hiring” process than we did in day-to-day interactions. It let us document everything just like we did with outside candidates, which is helpful if any questions about qualifications or favoritism come up later.
      Assuming your organization is also interviewing other candidates or has some kind of standardized rubric, you want to make sure to get full marks in every category.

      1. DeeDee*

        Thanks! My plan was to err on the side of formality—I figured that’s less risky no matter what. But yeah, I know they are evaluating other (external) candidates and would expect to be considered against the same criteria so this all makes sense.

      2. Esmeralda*

        I did this just a couple months ago (got the job, Yay me!)

        I dressed for an interview (= way more formal than wfh and more formal than in-office). I prepared as for any interview, and while I did not pretend to not-know anyone (we all first-named for instance), I did not presume prior knowledge about me or them. My presentation was the same level of formality as if I were an outside candidate.

        What being an insider gave me was exceptionally good knowledge of the program I wanted to move into (constituents, partners, opportunities, challenges). So I could ask really good quetions and had very good “tell me about a time when” examples prepped. I didn’t assume I knew everything, but having inside knowledge and experience gave me a lot of confidence and made for a really excellent interview.

    3. Jenna Webster*

      Yes, dress like you would for a regular external interview and go in really prepared, having thought about what questions they might ask and having information about things you’ve done, projects you’ve completed, reasons that you’re a great fit for this job. It’s great that they will know about you and the work you’ve done, but they will also appreciate you making the effort to show that you want this job and that you’ll be great for it.

    4. Jora Malli*

      My recommendation for internal interviews is always to mention the same skills and experiences that you would in an external interview. There’s a temptation to think “we work together closely, they know my experience level, it’s fine,” but human memories are fallible and they may not be thinking of the things you think they know. Also, at some places I’ve worked, interviewers aren’t allowed to consider things that aren’t said in the interview, so make sure you’re as thorough as you would be if you were interviewing somewhere else.

  20. Audiophile*

    Recently, I’ve been encountering something I think is a bit odd. I’d love to know if anyone else is running into this too.

    A recruiter will reach out requesting a phone interview as a first round. After confirming availability, they’ll follow up with a Zoom link, and when the day comes, we’re having a video chat rather than a phone interview.

    At no point are they saying they want to pivot to a video interview rather than a phone interview. And, many times the meeting subject includes the words phone interview.

    While I don’t have a problem with video interviews, with first rounds they feel unnecessary? Especially with conversations where more general questions are being asked and you’re not diving in too deeply on the role and a candidate’s experience.

    Is this just A Thing now because everyone is remote?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I think people are starting to use “phone screen” and “zoom (video) screen” interchangeably because the former is in their language and the latter is a newer norm. I don’t necessarily agree that video is unnecessary, but the lack of clarity is certainly annoying.

    2. ABK*

      I automatically think of a zoom link as meaning a video call. They may be referring to it as a phone interview just so you know that you’re not expected to physically be on site.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Video calls are so ubiquitous now that the normal thing to do is ask and specify – “Just checking, will we be doing video or audio-only?”

    4. Esmeralda*

      If you get a zoom link, that’s a video chat. So they did “tell” you. If you won’t have video for the zoom, let them know ahead of time. Otherwise, yeah, they did give you advance notice.

      1. iliketoknit*

        I agree that the Zoom link is notice (and I don’t think Audiophile meant to say they were actually surprised that a Zoom link means video or that the interview took place on video), but I do think it’s weird to arrange for a “phone interview” and then send a Zoom link. If I wanted to arrange for an interview on Zoom, I’d specifically say that. Or I might just say “are you free to talk further about the position,” and then send a video link, but I wouldn’t use the words “phone interview.” I think Eldritch Officer Worker is right that people may be using “phone” as a generic synonym for “not in-person.”

        I can see the point in doing the first round by video, though. Neither phone nor video are great substitutes for in-person conversation, but I think video is a little better, if all goes smoothly, because it’s a bit easier (at least for me) to get a sense of a person when you can see them. Phone is fine, too, but I don’t think there’s any need for phone to be the default.

        I guess video imposes a bit more burden on the applicant if they aren’t already set up to do it – I mean that more in terms of tech/finding an appropriate space than just having to be presentable on screen – but it’s just become so common in so many jobs that I’m not sure how often that’s an issue.

        It’s also true that in a phone interview, the interviewers can’t get distracted by appearance/race/ethnicity and make judgments they shouldn’t (it’s a little more like orchestra musicians auditioning behind aa screen), but I think if that’s genuinely going to be a problem, I’d rather get eliminated in the first round than do a phone screen, then meet in person, and then get dinged because the interviewers are terrible people. (Though easy for me to say that b/c I’m not looking for a job right now.)

        TBC, I’ve only worked in fields where the default was that you would do an in-person first-round screen, then you’d get a callback to a second, more in-depth, in-person interview. The phone interview got introduced as a less burdensome alternative to the first in-person round, but was always seen as a less informative method. So I can see moving to video as a way to get closer to the original in-person first-round screen, without reimposing the burden of making someone show up in-person for the first round (these are industries where hiring takes place nationally though).

        1. Audiophile*

          Sure, a Zoom link counts as notice, but it’s still weird to continue to call it a phone interview in that instance.

          For first-round screenings, which is what these are, anything more than the phone can be a bit of an inconvenience. It means blocking out time away from work, etc. Yes, many of us are still working remotely, but adding video into the mix at such an early stage complicates it further.

          These are typical phone screening interviews – this isn’t with the hiring manager or team – it’s with the recruiter or HR person, and they’re asking the usual screening questions.

          Obviously, I’d expect video or in-person for later rounds, like when speaking with the hiring manager or teams I’d be working with or managing.

    5. anonymous73*

      I’ve had that a few times recently and I had to ask beforehand. I work from home and generally look like I rolled out of bed unless I have an important video meeting that day. For one, she confirmed it was video, the other was on Teams, but we were only using audio. But I find anything more than a typical phone screen unnecessary.

    6. Garden Pigeons*

      I think terminology just hasn’t changed at a lot of places – I’ve seen “onsite” be used to mean “the bit of the interview process that would have been physically on-site in 2019 but is now four one-hour video calls”, and “phone screen” is presumably also being used in its pre-Zoom meaning.

  21. Excel-sior*

    A few years ago (5 perhaps?) a colleague was kind enough to provide a little bit of training for a programming language (specifically SQL). Unfortunately, the jobs I’ve had since have not offered a chance to use SQL, so I’ve never used it in anger or had a chance to really build on it.

    As I’m looking for jobs at the moment, I wouldn’t dare apply for jobs which require experience with this, a few of them say that experience of SQL would be ideal but not necessary.

    I feel that although i don’t have a great deal of experience, I’m in a better place than somebody entirely new to this.

    Is it worth mentioning my limited experience with this on my resume, and if so, how best to phrase it? Or is it best to just leave it off entirely?

    For what it’s worth, i have generally used Crystal, Business Objects and (obviously) Excel, and have used VBA quite extensively in previous roles, but have no other experience with programming languages.

    1. kiki*

      I would definitely mention it! Especially since SQL’s principles and primary uses stay constant, even if there are some new features. I would put it on your resume as “Basic SQL.” In your cover letter, I would mention having received training for it in a past job.

      If possible, and if you think it would be worthwhile, you could take a short, free refresher course on SQL (like something from freeCodeCamp) and mention that in cover letters and interviews as well.

    2. Tourniquette*

      As someone who is a pretty new to the world of work software developer, I think noting “exposure to” something is worthwhile. (I’ve always advertised my tech skills as either expert, experienced, or exposed to) People recognize that it means you’re not an expert, but it’ll improve your learning curve if you end up needing to develop those skills, or at least you’ll be able to better follow a conversation where SQL is an element. It certainly helped me get internships and my current job, but it’s possible that for higher-level roles it won’t matter.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      I think there are two ways to put it on your resume (you can use one or both or neither):

      (1) If you have a “skills” or “technology” section on your resume you can put:
      Knowledgeable in: Crystal, Business Objects, Excel
      Exposure to: SQL

      (2) If you did anything in SQL beyond training, put a line on your resume under the relevant job:
      – wrote query to find teapots in SQL

    4. Artemesia*

      If they mention it of course you mention that you have had some training in it and while you. haven’t been using it recently, you would be able to brush up on it if necessary. That is better than no experience at all.

    5. Excel-sior*

      Thanks everyone :) great advice and I’m tweaking my resume now. I knew the Open Thread on AAM would come through.

    6. SoloKid*

      I use a LOT of SQL in my day to day and anyone with even a bit of exposure would be off to a decent start.

      If you’re enthusiastic about learning more, mention that at the interview stage. Teaching someone with no preconceptions of certain applications can actually be easier since there’s no anti-patterns to unlearn.

      1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

        My current role had SQL as a requirement. I had zero SQL knowledge (and was very upfront about that) and still got the job. If it’s necessary, it’s easy enough to pick up the skills needed.

        1. SoloKid*

          Agreed. The difficult part is always knowing what results you/your boss wants! Anyone can google how to partition.

    7. ThursdaysGeek*

      If you design any reports in Crystal, if they are getting any data from a database, there needs to be some SQL involved (I think). Crystal SQL isn’t SQL Server SQL nor Oracle SQL – they are all slightly different, but the concepts and general syntax is mostly the same. Put the what you have on the resume, and I’d expect you to know or pick up the SQL pretty quickly.

    8. Dino*

      Off topic but a work related question for me: how do you pronounce SQL in speech?

      “S-Q-L” or “sequel” or something else?

      1. fhqwhgads*

        Both. Either. Anecdotally, “sequel” is more common in the past 10-15 years. Before then “Ess Cue Ell” was more common. But either is correct.

    9. ildrummer*

      Tangential to your question: Google Sheets has built in SQL functionality if you want to practice with that spreadsheet software instead of Excel.

  22. Audogs*

    Small office pension plan question. I started part time (20 hours per week) in late October at a solo attorney law practice. I’m 65 and this is to supplement my SS. The attorney has a pension plan that I’m not eligible for and not interested in. The admin at his plan holder is “requiring” all my personal info (Social, DOB, etc). I’m pushing back. Thoughts?

    1. Texan In Exile*

      Your employer still has to withhold taxes or send you a 1099 (is that the one for consultants?), so they do need your information.

      1. Texan In Exile*

        OH WAIT I JUST RE-READ YOUR QUESTION. No – why would the pension administrator need your information? Unless there are reporting requirements about documenting participation and ineligibility?

    2. Beth*

      If you aren’t enrolled in the plan, I see no reason for the plan admin to have any information on you at all.

    3. QKA*

      Pension plans and other Qualified Retirement Plans all have to complete extensive non discrimination testing which requires your demographic information. Even if you aren’t eligible for the plan, you still have to be included in the test.

    4. Policy Wonk*

      Does the plan holder handle any other personnel matters for the lawyer? If so, might need the info for e.g., taxes. If they keep asking, ask for an explanation of why they need it, in writing.

      1. Audogs*

        Thanks everyone. I’m getting the “just because” answer from the Plan Admin. My stance is that I don’t trust any entity with my personal info, let alone something I’m not involved in.

    5. Purple Cat*

      DH is a pension plan administer. “They 100% need DOB and Date of Hire. Most pension software use SS# as unique identifier, but if company is only 2 people they may be able to use a dummy SS#”.

      My comments – it’s literally no different than providing the info to your payroll company. They have fiduciary responsibility to maintain your privacy.

      1. acmx*

        But Audogs is not enrolled nor even eligible for the pension. It would be like Audogs giving your husband their SS# – zero reason to. Just increases the chance their information could be exposed due to a hack.

  23. Leaving and Scared*

    I’m looking for a new job after 10+ years at my current place b/c of internal dysfunction. I love this place and don’t really WANT to leave, but I’m always anxious about work and crying often…this is no way to live and I’m an accomplished professional who isn’t being treated as such. However, I am…terrified. I’ve redone my resume and I’ve scoped out some jobs to apply to, talked to my network, etc. but I am so scared to move to the next stage despite the anxiety and frustration in my current position. Is this normal to feel like this? Any advice? Thank you!

    1. ThatGirl*

      I’m saying this because it sounds a little like where my husband was: this sounds like the anxiety talking. Do you have any sort of mental health support outside of work?

      It’s normal to feel apprehensive about the unknown — but if your current job is causing you anxiety and making you cry regularly, it’s not a healthy environment, and you deserve better.

      1. Leaving and Scared*

        Working with an online service now, just switched a new therapist who I will meet next week. This is helpful though – I need reminders, sadly, that my anxiety is freaking JERK. Thank you.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Good luck. Remember that it’s just a job, you can do better, and that yes, anxiety is a big ole jerkface that lies to you.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Take it one step at a time, and at each step remind yourself “don’t borrow trouble from the future.”

      (1) scope out jobs to apply to and talk to your network –congrats, you’ve already done the first step!
      (2) write cover letters and submit applications — change is scary, but remember that clicking the “submit” button will not immediately bring about change
      (3) phone screens and interviews — remember that you are interviewing the companies just as much as they are interviewing you; you have agency and get to decide what is and isn’t a good fit for you
      (4) accepting an offer and changing jobs — this is the big change and the most important time to lean on friends/family/a therapist to get yourself over the anxiety hump and into a better work environment

      Best of luck on your search!

    3. Invisible fish*

      Oh, yes, that’s anxiety. But if you’re crying, it’s time to pick up your purse and GO. (If you carry a purse, that is – this is just a family saying that indicates you’re done with a situation and aren’t waiting around.) Make YOUR choices on what’s best for YOU, and it will all work out.

      1. Leaving and Scared*

        I’m picturing it like the Viola Davis gif “this could have been an email,” taking her bag and going. Which is perfect – thank you!

    4. Purple Cat*

      Yup, with you 100% Anxiety is a *)*^.
      Just remind yourself that you KNOW how bad everything is now. It is unlikely that the unknown will be worse.

    5. Midwest Manager*

      If you find yourself obsessing over your resume and letter and not sending it because you’re second-guessing the tiniest things, I would guess it’s because of fear or anxiety. Fear of rejection, anxiety over the unknown, and you know what they say about “the devil you know.” These are normal things, especially if you haven’t job searched in over a decade.

      Even if you are feeling anxious about sending in your materials, do it anyway. The first one is always the hardest, and it might do you some good to submit materials to jobs you *might* want to do, in addition to the ones that seem like a perfect fit for you. Once you’ve sent off a few, it’ll become easier to make the edits and complete other submissions. Then move on to the next and see what pans out.

      Good luck! I wish you success in your search!

    6. Chauncy Gardener*

      Oh geez, I’m so sorry you’re feeling this way! It sounds like your current job has taken a lot out of you and beaten you down.
      Just remember that replying to job postings isn’t actually changing jobs. It’s just replying to a job posting. Maybe try to chunk things into teeny bits like that and maybe it won’t seem so overwhelming and trigger your anxiety (because I do agree with everyone that this sounds like anxiety)?
      Also, can you take some time off to focus on self care? Even just a day here and there where you can just rest and do what you need to do to start to heal? Exercise? Yoga maybe?
      Someone here posted a cord cutting guided meditation on YouTube a while back that was GREAT. If you search this “Cord-Cutting Meditation: Release Unhealthy Attachments & Call Back Your Power” on YouTube, it should come right up.
      Hang in there and hope you land on Good News Friday soon!

        1. tessa*

          Just want to add, no matter how tempting, don’t give your notice until your new work place has every i dotted and t crossed that it must have on you.

          I recently started a new job. The hiring manager assured me that once I signed the offer I could give notice to now former workplace, but I made sure my background check, which took a couple of weeks longer to come forward than did my offer acceptance, had no errors.

          I am sorry you are in such a bad place. I was, too, but once I decided to go elsewhere, I took stock: I had an income source while looking, I had a horizon full of opportunities, and a life to live. Stay strong, my friend.

    7. MoMac*

      I’m going to go a different route with this reply. One of the things that happen with anxiety is that your thoughts drive your emotions and this ends up with physical symptoms. It is hard to stop your thoughts from swirling around the same fears and your body responds to that with extra cortisol. So something that helps is mindfulness. Unfortunately, it is hard to practice mindfulness with a very busy brain. The following link will do the work for you. There are 6 breathing practices covered. I would recommend trying #4 first with Atman Smith on stress breathing. These guys are wonderful. I came across them at a conference and they changed my life. Good luck to you. https://traumaresearchfoundation.org/stress-reduction-and-mindfulness-with-holistic-life-foundation-collection/#

    8. Leandra*

      Leaving and Scared, your post is perfect timing for me. I’m in a similar situation, and have decided to try making a move.

      Because this is coming late in my career, I’ll have to choose carefully. The decision I make, I’ll have to live with until retirement.

      But I have concluded that looking is the right thing to do, and feel better already just having taken that step. A recruiter I’ve spoken to before recently reached out to me again, and he has a position now that I’m going to try for.

      If I get that far, I’ve already thought of a new question for the prospective bosses. If any of them were hired from outside vs. joining with the firm straight out of school, we can discuss differences in how firms operate. When a person has been with only one employer, they may not be aware that there’s more than one way to do things.

  24. Eldritch Office Worker*

    How do YOU schedule difficult conversations?

    So two scenarios:
    A) I have a to have a meeting with Sam to talk about something corrective
    B) I have to have a meeting with the teapots group to deliver some bad news

    In both cases I have to schedule at least a week in advance and I’m in a culture that’s heavy on meeting agendas.

    In scenario A, I might say the general topic (we’re meeting to check in on project management) but not make it clear that it’s a TALK because I don’t want the person sweating for a week and I don’t want to spend a week getting badgered for specifics. But then when it becomes that they feel deceived.

    In scenario B, maybe I’ll put “seasonal group check-in” – fine once, but then anytime there’s a group meeting on the calendar people aren’t expecting in the future I’ve set a tone.

    HOW DO YOU DO THIS I’M BAD AT THIS.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      For A) I wouldn’t schedule it a week in advance. I would look at Sam’s calendar once I have my notes ready to go, and then call him that morning and say, looks like you and I are both free at 2. Please stop by my office then.
      For B), you should be having regular team meetings with the teapots group, so cover it at that standing meeting. Where on the agenda it goes depends on what other items there are.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        What if that’s not possible for A? It’s really not possible to get time with someone same-day here.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          (B isn’t really possible either and would be an enormous waste of time but I feel like that one is slightly less tricky)

        2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

          I suppose it depends on how urgent is the need for a discussion with Sam. As Eldritch notes below, there is such a thing as bumping meetings when necessary. Otherwise, save it for the regular 1:1.

    2. A Penguin!*

      Scenario A I just put into our regular 1:1 if it’s something that doesn’t need an immediate special meeting. My reports are used to getting the good and the bad at these.

      Scenario B I do anything I can to pull it in to much less than a week notice. Same day ideally. Including bumping existing meetings to make space for it. The more significant the news, the more ruthlessly I bump existing commitments. The meeting title would be something like ‘group/team/company update’. Mostly because I don’t want rumors from other sources delivering (potentially twisted versions of) the bad news before I can. I wouldn’t worry about the anxiety leading up to the effectively ‘surprise’ meeting because I’m not leaving a ton of time to stew on it, and anyway you can only sugarcoat bad news so far. Bad news is inherently anxiety-provoking; you can’t really prevent that.

      Both of the above assume I’m managing the individual/group. If I’m not and I for some reason still need to hold the meeting, I would want to do essentially the same, but would talk with their manager first.

      1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

        I like this for A if it’s not urgent. For B, if you don’t have standing meetings, I would just email the bad news to the group as it would be very difficult in my workplace to schedule a same-day meeting with more than 3 or 4 people, if that.

        1. A Penguin!*

          I wrote my original reply with the assumption that even if my team is fully booked, I have the ability to pull them out of those obligations (true everywhere I’ve been). If I really couldn’t do that (client service of some sort, I guess? Like I said, not something I have experience with), I’d have to go with an email even if I had an upcoming standing meeting, with a note that I’m available to discuss it if people have questions/concerns. I wouldn’t put off bad news more than a day or two, because it will get out in the rumor mill and it’s much easier to head off concerns if I’m the first person they’re hearing the news from.

      2. Eldritch Office Worker*

        HR in a matrixed organization with no direct manager :\ I’m figuring out from the responses the difficulty might be specific to my org structure.

    3. Jenna Webster*

      Having to schedule a week in advance is definitely problematic, especially for scenario A. Best to have those conversations right away (at the time the action that needs to be corrected happens), both so it is fresh in their mind and so they don’t have to agonize over it. Is there any way to make it an end of the day conversation? If it needs to wait because one or the other of you will be out of the office, can you wait to schedule until you’re both back?

    4. Not A Manager*

      For Scenario A, if you were to signal that the meeting is important/disciplinary, and if the person got uncomfortable and started pestering you, would it then be possible to say, “I need to discuss this in a scheduled meeting, but I can make time sooner if you have any availability”? That way, you haven’t “deceived” them about the nature of the meeting, and you are providing a way to address it sooner if they want to.

      I’ve always been puzzled by the emphasis on this site about not making people uncomfortable with anticipation/unhappy to be surprised. Of course you don’t want to do either one unnecessarily, but sometimes people just have to live with not knowing what a meeting will entail, or accept that a vague agenda actually represents some kind of unanticipated bad news. If you’re delivering bad news, then the person isn’t going to like it regardless of whether you gave them a heads up and let them stew, or you didn’t give them a heads up and then they were surprised.

    5. Purple Penguin*

      In case A, Sam presumably knows things aren’t great, so having a mini-agenda isn’t bad and will only keep them from imagining worse things. Topic “project checkin”, body of message “I heard project is slipping schedule on X because of your Y. Let’s set aside some time to talk it over and discuss what went wrong and how I can help”

      Note that “how I can help” might be code for “so I’ve created a plan for you, and regular monitoring” but it’s way less for Sam to stew over than “how to prevent this in future”

  25. Amber Rose*

    For a little over a year, I’ve been working on a project to completely revamp and standardize our parts numbering and description system. We have around 3000 parts and systems of varying complexity so this has been an endeavor.

    I’m now basically done, and all I have to do is send it out for review, and I’m friggin’ terrified. That I wasn’t thorough enough or good enough or correct enough. I’m worried about all the garbage data that still needs to be cleaned. I’m worried about the changes to the ERP that nobody will talk about and how this will affect how we want to do things. I’m worried about everything.

    That worry has bled into everything else and now I feel paralyzed and unable to do anything. June/July are always my busiest months and I’m just frozen with fear.

    1. Hei Hei, the Chicken from Moana*

      You got this! Totally normal to feel like this and you should expect a few errors, which is totally normal. Do some self-care, activities to keep your brain busy, and also repeat to yourself that you are an awesome professional and you got this. Feelings aren’t facts! We are all cheering for you!

      1. Hlao-roo*

        I’m definitely here cheering! Part numbering systems are HUGE. There will always be garbage data that needs to be cleaned up but the bulk of the work is done and I’m sure your new system is a big improvement on the old one.

    2. SoloKid*

      I’ve been in this boat.
      Re: garbage data- Do you have someone that can prioritize what data should be cleaned up first? It helped being able to go to someone and say “Projects A and B had this data mushed up, and Project C didn’t migrate this at all. What should I tackle first?”

      Re: “nobody will talk about” – do you have “trusted” users you could directly reach out to to see how their process /searches might change? Like hopefully you have an idea of the most requested part #s and who needs that info.

      re: ” That I wasn’t thorough enough or good enough or correct enough.” That’s what the review is for, right? If there are egregious mistakes, find a way to fix them for next time.

      At the end of the day, users find a way to use systems. If people are there to answer questions, most people can handle turbulence as long as they know they’re supported. And whoever launched the initiative to do this sort of change should be handling most of the PR.

      1. calonkat*

        “And whoever launched the initiative to do this sort of change should be handling most of the PR.”
        Does this happen? I work in state government, and the legislature never has to justify or even explain what they want with legislation, and my previous work was mostly in non-profits. I’ve always seen the full implementation, including PR, having to be done by the people who end up doing the development, not the people who wanted the change. So it’s a real question, is that the way it works in business?

        1. Amber Rose*

          Late reply, but nope. It was something that came up in a meeting as necessary, I got saddled with the work, and it’s my job to get buy-in from everyone. -_-

          I’m not doing this alone, mind you. That’s not giving enough credit to the three or four people who have been giving me advice and assisting with the logistics of it all. But ultimately it became my project and my responsibility.

    3. Invisible today*

      Totally normal – letting your brain child out into the world is terrifying. In addition to what others say, remember that no one else is as close to the project as you are – others are less likely to see issues than you will. And if they do, you’ll be well equipped to handle them.

  26. Alumnus*

    It’s my 15th college reunion this year, and I’m getting bombarded with outreach from my school (presumably for fundraising). The most recent case has been a personalized video message from someone in alumni relations congratulating me on my recent promotion. I’ve established already with enough people that it’s creepy – I did change my title on LinkedIn, but I made sure there wasn’t a post about it because it was a somewhat sensitive situation, so they literally had to be on my profile and actively reviewing it to get that information. My school was small, but not so small that it makes sense to literally go profile by profile for all alumni from major graduation milestones.

    My question is – do I a) just ignore and roll my eyes, b) use the “unsubscribe” link from the video service as a quiet way to express “ugh” or c) write back and say “I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but this is super creepy, please stop”?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I would do B or C depending on whether you wish to know what’s going on with the school from the alumni relations office in the future. If you want to be engaged, but don’t like this particular bit of engagement, I think the feedback via option C is helpful to the office. I’ve worked in student affairs and alumni relations and the pressure to “stay hip” with technology and social media is strong, but the staff often don’t get it quite right. This feedback is helpful! If you just don’t want to hear from them at all and have no plans to stay engaged or help fundraise, then I think option B is fine, too. If they get enough people unsubscribing, they’ll likely get the hint on their own.

    2. After 33 years ...*

      The only way to break this chain is b). The person who recorded the last message may not be assigned to do it next time, and they won’t necessarily see your feedback or have any control on how the messages are delivered (or how many). Most alumni affairs offices cannot take “no, thank you” as an answer.
      a) works for e-mails, but not videos.

    3. irene adler*

      b or c.
      Gotta take action for this to stop.

      FYI: there is option d. Worked beautifully for me. A decade ago, when the alumni people called soliciting funds, I told them I’d died. Yes, irene adler passed away. Very tragic.
      No more donation requests.

      1. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

        I got my college to stop calling by telling them I wouldn’t donate until they changed a specific admissions policy (women’s college, won’t admit non-binary students but will admit trans women).

        2. AnonyMouse*

          I’m hoping you said that because admitting non-women to a women’s college is ridiculous, not because you think trans women should be excluded.

        3. Hillary*

          I told mine I’d consider donating after I paid off my student loans. They haven’t called since.

        4. Chapeau*

          Just as an FYI, when I worked in alumni relations, we actually kept a list of alumni who said they wouldn’t donate until X happened. When X finally happened, they were the first group we reached out to. So it’s a good idea, but it’s not entirely foolproof.

    4. ecnaseener*

      FWIW, if I were keeping track of hundreds or thousands of alumni’s LinkedIn profiles, I would do it via an automated process that checks their profiles for changes rather than by scrolling through a news feed. So I don’t think you need to be concerned that anyone was creeping on you personally. Still fair to point out how creepy it comes off, though!

    5. anonymous73*

      I’d just unsubscribe. I wouldn’t say the video message was creepy, but it is over the top. No satisfaction will come from sending a message to the video-er.

    6. HR Girl*

      I worked briefly at a university development (donor) office. They have electronic programs that scrape the net for this sort of information and then it is included in reports for outreach. Marriages, births, deaths, careers, promotions, job loss, etc. they keep all of the information about people in databases and then use the information in marketing and when reaching out to possible big donors. It is incredibly creepy snd invasive. You can be added to do not contact lists but they keep gathering the info.

  27. Mental health question anon*

    Wanted to post an update, I posted about a month ago asking for advice on whether to go on medical leave.

    I asked for medical leave on that Friday and ended up quitting the following Tuesday. I quit the medication that was making me anxious and had an appointment with my doctor to discuss what I should do next with meds.

    I’m getting my sleep apnea appliance next week and hopefully I can start to feel better then. I’ve also put in a proposal for a freelance project that an acquaintance told me about. I don’t know if I’ll get it, but it forced me to work on my portfolio and I feel like I have a better path forward to getting a job in my old field from before I get sick, which I plan to start working ok once I’ve begun sleep apnea treatment.

    I’m sad it didn’t work out at the old job—I’d wanted to work there for a long time—but I am glad I did what I did. It was causing an absurd amount of stress and I needed to take the time for my health.

    I want to thank everyone who commented to tell me why it was a bad idea to try and power through a mental health episode like I wanted to do. It made me feel like it was ok to do what I needed for my health even if it involved not working for a little while longer.

    There was also one person who mentioned it was concerning I was having a sleep disorder treated as a psychiatric issue, which, while it’s outside the scope of the work question, was a very important point I’m glad someone brought up. I did some more research and apparently one of the proposed reasons for women being diagnosed with sleep apnea at a lower rate is our fatigue gets attributed to depression. Which is just…hmm. I don’t like it! But that’s a topic for another conversation.

    1. RagingADHD*

      I’m so glad that you can see the light at the end of the tunnel from here! Best wishes.

    2. Midwest Manager*

      Once you get your CPAP, the first few weeks you will feel like a new person! That euphoria will wear off after a time, but take advantage of it while you can! I hope that in the end it helps you with a better quality of life.

      Good luck with the freelance project!

  28. KSharp*

    How do you tell a client, in business terms, “I’ve taken over this work order that an unqualified previous coworker started, messed up, and then hid and lied about until it’s over a year late. I need more information to complete this in under 24 hours.”?
    My boss only found out that it was hidden after we got a nasty-gram asking where it was… because it’s scheduled to be built starting 5/31/22.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Oh my. This is a conversation for your boss. He needs to fall on his sword about this.

      1. Beth*

        Yes yes yes. Boss contacts client, issues apology and refers the client to you for follow-up.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        Right, because the boss should have known that co-worker wasn’t doing the work: work that isn’t being done should be visible, and the boss should have been following up when it was not getting done.

        1. KSharp*

          We went through a massive re-org and the ex-coworker spent a year saying “I’m working on it but I just got this massive scope change.” (Not that massive. He’s just wrong.) But the new boss is taking the heat for what the old manager did.

    2. Annie Nonimus*

      Oh Lord.

      “Owing to internal structural changes, we currently have incomplete information on file. Be assured that this project is being given our top priority. In order to expedite this to you, please provide us with the following information as soon as possible.”

    3. TheOtherJennifer*

      Unfortunately, Previous Coworker who handled this item has left/moved on/transitioned out of the role and did not communicate the timeline for this order. I am taking over this project as of now, have escalated the issue and urgency to my leadership and will followup with you on X day with a timeline for next steps.

    4. Fabulous*

      Thanks so much for your continued patience on Project X. We just discovered that the person formerly leading the project was unfortunately quite behind on progress, but we are now on top of it and should be able to have a finalized version to you by [date] with the help of some additional information from you. Could you please provide us the following:

      – Bulleted list of everything you need

    5. Filosofickle*

      Are you the one that needs to say it, or should it be your boss? I’m a senior client-facing consulting person, but I’d expect news like this to be delivered by my top client service or account person. Or at least my boss. Because this is an engagement-level problem that needs to be addressed honestly and head on – someone has to come clean and say this didn’t get done and we’ll make it right and here’s how. And it’s often better if that doesn’t come from the person who’s hands on with the work so it doesn’t affect or undermine that ongoing relationship.

      1. KSharp*

        My boss said it to our main contact… who then left for an appointment. So now I’m trying to track down individuals to get all the information so I can act like a snowplow and do this all over the weekend.

    6. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      “Previous Coworker is no longer with the company and I’m following up on all of his projects. I do have his notes and I am aware that this project has fallen behind schedule, but I hope you have the time to bring me up to speed and allow me to deliver on this project.” It helps if you have 1-2 specific questions that show you have looked into the project and you can get started ASAP. I’ve had to do that with clients, it’s never fun. Some clients will immediately take their business elsewhere when it’s acknowledged that your company dropped the ball, and some will be understanding and help you get the project back on track.

      1. KSharp*

        The only good news is that the client LOVES working with the rest of the team, it was just this one repeat offender.
        We nearly lost them due to his antics while he was hired, and I’m NOT going to let his legacy of BS ruin this.

    7. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      Oh no. I was the person in this position back this year. My condolences. Had to built from scratch a feature that someone sold as done and it wasn’t done. I had to work overtime for days, ate badly and slept worse. If you need to do overtime, please insist on being properly compensated!

  29. TheAraucana*

    Looking for resources for report writing! Long story short, I work in marketing and supervise a young employee who I am trying to teach how to write plans and reports that people will read. She is a great writer, but tends to write long paragraphs and multiple sentences for bullet points. So all the words read as a big, intimidating block of text. I’m looking for resources online that help explain in a really simple way how you create text hierarchy, incorporate charts/graphs, and that sort of thing for documents. Any recommendations??

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Dude, that sounds awful. You just need to tell her that you can’t accept deliverables as big, intimidating blocks of text.. in marketing no less! Surely you have examples from your own organization? I don’t think it’s on you to teach her to write readable documents per se, but rather to show her what an example of a satisfactory deliverable for your organization looks like.

      1. TheAraucana*

        That is a good point, thank you! We are not a great report-writing organization… As an industry, we’re very… high context and research-heavy, so we generally write reports like research articles. You’re right that it’s better to share good examples–I’ll dig into my past projects and find some examples. She’s a great worker, though, she just needs instruction and I’m sure she’ll pick it right up!

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Can you find or create some examples for her? I’m picturing two pages side-by-side with the same information. One with long paragraphs, multiple sentences for each bullet point, no pictures, etc. The other the way you want the page to look: short paragraphs, graphs and charts, one line bullet points, etc. Then have a meeting with her where you two can talk about which page looks more appealing, is easier to read, and how she can format her reports like that.

      1. TheAraucana*

        Yes, I like this! A side-by-side would probably be really helpful. I’ve done this for so long that I do everything almost by instinct that this point, so I’ll have to be really thoughtful about how to explain the hows and whys. I do think sitting down with her and talking it through will be productive. Thank you!!

      2. GlazedDonut*

        Yes, and even just examples of good reports (not necessarily side by side if that’s a lot of work on your part). Find a well-done report, show it to her, and point out what you think makes it good. “This bullet point has all the words on one line with one bolded for emphasis.” Be very very clear. It helps to have something to point back to, if reports aren’t improving, to say “remember how this did X?”

    3. Jigsaw*

      plainlanguage dot gov

      Maybe not the exact way you want to write for marketing, but a great guide for making dense writing more readable. My team and I spent last year doing a weekly training using their guidelines as a resource and it really improved our writing!

      1. eeeek*

        This is a great idea. But also, if the whole organization could benefit, why not encourage others to do it, too? My upper admin unit at a major US university is enthusiastic about the plain language training. We found it helped improve everyone’s writing, and also helped create a positive culture. We have a better culture for seeking and giving feedback about communication, and in a highly stratified organization, the focus on communication is more egalitarian. I don’t get side-eye about “well, eeeek has a PhD so she must know what she’s doing even though this is a garbled ramble” and our undergrad student support staff doesn’t get derisive sniffs about only being a student “who can’t write yet.” Instead, we focus on whether the work says what it needs to say, clearly and efficiently, and if the audience reading can understand it. AND we know mistakes happen, writing well is a process of continual improvement, etc.
        I should add though that this idea bubbled up from a few enthusiastic folks – it wasn’t a top-down mandate. But it was noticed on performance reviews and counted as professional development, too.

    4. MaryLoo*

      Does she need to be convinced that what she’s doing is ineffective?

      There’s a difference between being a good writer (narrative, story, correct grammar, etc) and being a good technical writer (organizing and presenting content so your audience doesn’t need to process it further to get the information they need)

      Nobody wants to read flowing prose. I once worked at a company where the “functional specs” (quotes meaningful- as in so-called) were written like this. Pages and pages of paragraphs, with content similar to:

      Wordy paragraph: “There are three important features to take into consideration when designing this product. The first feature is appearance. The product must be pleasing to look at. The users will be happy to work with an attractive product. The next important feature is buttons and switches. These should be colorful and be labeled correctly. That way, the user can easily find the button or switch for the calculation they want to perform. Finally, the display area should show the results in large text that’s easy to read. This will make it easy for the user to find their answer and complete their work.

      Cleaned-up text would have been:
      Required features:
      * Pleasing appearance
      * Colorful buttons and switches, each one with a label
      * Display area that shows results in large, easy-to-read font.

      The engineers complained bitterly, because they had to read and digest pages of paragraphs, fish out the important bits and ignore the other verbiage.

      Sadly, the writers of all that text could not be convinced to break the content into more useable bits. Instead they said “the requirements are all in the spec” and talked amongst themselves about how the engineers were too lazy to read.
      (The company no longer exists, btw)

      Here are some useful articles:
      Bullet point lists vs paragraphs.

      https://www.writingclearscience.com.au/bullet-point-lists-versus-paragraphs/

      How to write in plain English

      http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/how-to-write-in-plain-english.html

      Best practices for bullet points

      https://www.businesswritingblog.com/business_writing/2005/12/the_best_of_bul.html

  30. KareninHR*

    I’m hoping for feedback on if I’m handling a situation professionally or not. I recently had a baby girl and my employer was gracious enough to allow me to switch to salaried part time. I leave work at 2:00 every day, but I make sure to keep up with my emails and (rare) time-sensitive calls from home. For instance, yesterday my manager asked if I she could call me around 3:30 regarding a fairly urgent matter (it could have waited until today, but yesterday was better). I said “Sure! The baby will be down for a nap then, so call any time.” I can’t decide if that is unprofessional or not, though. On one hand, my baby’s nap schedule has nothing to do with my job or my manager, so it does seem unprofessional to volunteer that information. But on the other hand, my manager (a mom herself) has been extremely understanding of my situation and is very careful not to impose too much when I am not technically “on the clock.” By letting her know that the baby is napping, I’m letting her know that I’m flexible then and will have time to talk with no disruptions. Is there a better way I could say that? Or am I overthinking? Any feedback would be much appreciated!! (I would also NEVER volunteer this information to customers. Only internal, and probably only my manager, with whom I have a very good working relationship.)

    1. Megan*

      I think you’re over thinking it! As you said your manager is a mum and has been very understanding. It’s likely if you said “330 wouldn’t work, but I can do 4?” she would likely assume its due to bub anyway. I get why inserting your baby into your work life feels unprofessional so, if it would make you feel better, you could just stop and suggest new times without giving a reason.

    2. Emm*

      From a non-parent, I think that’s fine. Not strictly necessary info, but I wouldn’t think twice about it.

    3. Annie Nonimus*

      I think you’re totally fine. My team is totally remote and many of my coworkers have young kids and babies whose schedules must be worked around. It is very normal for someone to say “hey I can’t meet with you at 3 – I have daycare pickup, can we do 2?”

    5. ecnaseener*

      I’m the type of person who gets annoyed when my coworkers overshare personal stuff, and I wouldn’t think twice about this. It’s not a secret that you’re caring for a baby, it’s the whole reason you have this schedule! No different from my boss wrapping up a meeting because her dog needs to be walked.

      (And, yknow, the context is that you’re doing extra work you’re not scheduled to do.)

    6. NoviceManagerGuy*

      Seems totally fine*.

      *Deranged people can make an issue out of anything.

    7. calonkat*

      My reaction would have been “Oh, maybe you could just call me anytime between 3:15 and 4, after the baby is down. That way my call won’t wake them at a critical moment in going to sleep!” But I’ve been there :)

  31. Jim Halpert*

    I’ve got the age old AAM question – feeling meh about my job and wondering if I should jump ship.

    Its okay, I guess, there are some coworker and management issues but I have my own office and pretty much run my own show and can be left alone a lot of the time. But I just feel meh about it, it doesn’t excite me as a job.

    Probably the only thing holding me back from leaving is if I stay for another 1.5 years I can get this certification which would be REALLY awesome.

    I have another job I do on the side (I work .8 at meh job), and I love it – I am actively excited to go to work and always pick up extra shifts where possible. I also realized I could double my salary leaving meh job and going full time at exciting job. But – I wouldn’t be able to get this certification as the core work between the two jobs are different, although in the same broader field.

    Previously, I never thought about getting this certification but now I’m in a job which qualifies for it, it seems like a good career choice to get it. It will open more doors in the future. I could move to a similar role and still be eligible for this certification but of course I could just enter an even worse job environment so I’m hesitant to do that.

    Currently working .8 at meh job leaves me with capacity to do exciting job, I also sit on a board, and currently doing a short course. I might not be able to do all of those things if I move jobs.

    I guess the benefits of staying outweigh the cons, but I just feel so meh about the whole thing I’m regularly on job websites and thinking about leaving.

    I know 1.5 years is hardly anything (and I get 12 weeks off a year, so its even less…) and this job allows me to do all these other things I value but I’m really struggling not LOVING work and LOVING going to work and feeling passionate about it. I’ve always held jobs I’m passionate about before this one.

    Would welcome any advice!

    1. Hei Hei, the Chicken from Moana*

      If you didn’t get the certification, what would mean for your career?

      1. Jim Halpert*

        I mean on the other hand, not that much. I never intended to go down this specific path of my field. But now that I can, it would be sort of good to have it. It would open doors for other roles that I couldn’t take without it (or would be really hard to get, and I probably wouldn’t bother). But then again, I don’t know that I *want* those roles!

        1. Anonaly*

          I’m no help but wanted to commiserate and say I’m in a similar boat. I need 1 more year in a position to be eligible to convert my initial certification to a permanent certification, but this next year is looking like nothing short of absolute hell due to low staffing and high workload, which is generally the case for essentially anywhere I work in this role. And I’ve realized I don’t want to do this role anywhere else, if at all. I’m debating whether it’s worth a year to have a lifetime certification “parachute” in a field where I can literally get a meh mid-five-figures job anywhere I move within a month, or if it’s better to get out and do the recession-vulnerable work that actually excites me and doesn’t drain my cup. I don’t have the answer. But I do understand the lure of a certification and what that can mean in terms of permanent job access (in my case, permanent job access unless the US federal government decides to end or significantly change a fabric-of-society law that has existed for many decades), and I’m erring on staying and getting the parachute. If that helps.

        2. Chauncy Gardener*

          One thing I do when I have a decision like this is to literally weigh the options. I put option A and option B in separate columns and then put all the variables down the side. Then I give each variable a weight, from -10 to +10 and then add them up and see which has more “weight.” If I feel totally outraged when one option comes up with the most weight, I know my brain already has a favorite and I should just listen to it.

          Also, I would really think hard about how much that certification and those potential other jobs REALLY mean. How positive would it truly be? And it sounds like you’re not sure if you really want those roles anyway.
          Good luck!

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I’d stick it out. Not LOVING your job is pretty normal, and it sounds like you have a lot of plates in the air that might be disrupted if you move jobs right now. Use your meh job to pay the bills for a little while and get your joy in the other things!

      When you get your certification you can re-examine, I assume your course will be over by then. It sounds like the timing will be better overall and in the meantime you still have exciting job 20% of the time. Being super excited by 20% of one full time job would be a real win in a lot of places!

      It’s ultimately up to you, but that’s the calculus I would do in your situation.

      1. Jim Halpert*

        That is very true, I would really struggle / likely need to give up all my other plates. It’s definitely a benefit of this job that I have heaps of time and brain space to do all these other things.

        I think I do agree with you! I’m just struggling not feeling passionate about it, but you’re right, many people don’t.

    3. CatCat*

      What’s “meh” about the meh job?

      You say the certification would be awesome, but why? Would it open doors to jobs you’re excited about or open doors to more jobs of meh job’s ilk?

      1. Jim Halpert*

        It would open doors that may be meh…. but I would have more control and could pick and choose, like freelancing (sorry trying to be vague not to identify myself!).

        Meh is I’m just not passionate about it. It’s a perfectly fine job, the coworker issue is definitely annoying and I could do without it, the management issues are very frustrating but most of the time I’m left alone and can do whatever I want. I do have heaps of autonomy which I like. I just haven’t been in this situation before where I don’t feel passionately about my role. I guess I’ve been lucky in that way as I know lots of people work jobs they’re not passionate about. As it’s new to me, it’s really bothering me and I think almost daily about job hunting or leaving.

        1. CatCat*

          I mean, what’s the point of working on meh things now just because you could potentially freelance doing more meh things in the future?

          Sounds like you’re really unfulfilled at meh job. It’s irrelevant that other people are working jobs they are not passionate about (that may not be optional for them or feelings about the job are a low priority item for them). Your options and priorities are different. Your exciting job fills your cup!

          I think you have to sit down and map out your priorities and WHY those are your priorities to get a clearer picture of what you should do.

        2. Despachito*

          A difficult question.

          Your current work gives you autonomy and leaves you enough time to do things you are really excited about. This is not bad at all.

          On the other hand, the exciting job seems to be much more satisfactory for you, and the salary is twice as high. This is undoubtedly better.

          Is there anything besides the certificate that is holding you back? Are you going to lose something that is important to you? And how realistically will you need the certificate? Will it lead to just another “meh” job, or will it give you more freedom and a broader range of possibilities in your “love” job?

          If the latter, and if the “love” job is going to be still there after the 1.5 years, I’d consider staying. Otherwise, I’d be inclined to leave.

  32. Vv007*

    How soon can you tell if you are going to like a new job or not? For context: I left a job that I loved due to a supervisor that was a bully and was negatively affecting my mental health. I was able to make a lateral move to a new position with the same pay and benefits. I’m about 1.5 weeks in and am bored… the training isn’t moving quickly at all. Today I am just re-reading process manuals as none of the people that could train me are working on Fridays. I came from a high workload and high stress position and thought a slower pace may be nice but this is killing me.

    2. Tourniquette*

      To answer the direct question, I typically take ~2 months for my opinion of a new job to settle. I’m not usually perfectly comfortable and trained up at that point, I just have a decent idea of the culture and trajectory as well as how I feel about it.

      And here’s some secondary advice: a mantra I have found helpful during non-stressful transitions – “Rest is a skill, don’t rush it.” You just came from a really high stress position, and your mind/body is used to running like that, regardless of whether it’s something you actually prefer. View this as an opportunity to relearn how to slow down and rest a bit.

      1. calonkat*

        Tourniquette has really good advice, especially the second point. Are other people just sitting around also? If not, then you won’t be in another month or so :)

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I’d say it has to be at least a month but probably closer to three months before you really have enough information to judge.

    4. Hlao-roo*

      For training moving slowly, see the thread started by commenter Lazy Bones for how long it takes people to ramp up to eight hours of work a day.

      If I were you, I would give the new job at least two months. Most people do not handle boredom well but once the initial training period is over you won’t be as dependent on your coworkers’ schedules and will have more to do. And you might need a longer adjustment period specifically because you’re transitioning out of a high pressure/high workload environment.

      1. Vv007*

        Thanks! I somehow skipped that thread but it was reassuring to see how long it has taken for others to get to a full workload.

    5. Gracely*

      You need to give it more time. At least a month, especially since you’re coming from somewhere with a high workload/stress level; the change from that to something where you need to be trained is going to be jarring.

    6. Policy Wonk*

      I always tell people that the first couple of weeks of a new job are the time to meet all those people for lunch that you haven’t had time for, and to bring a book or something to do, because your new employer doesn’t yet know how you fit into the workflow, so you won’t be busy.

      Give it a couple more weeks to see how things go, but IMO 1.5 weeks isn’t enough time for either of you. You will likely be back up to your high pace soon.

      1. A Penguin!*

        I’m finding it interesting to read all the experiences of people not having full plates until months into a new job. My experience has been the opposite – I have never come into a (post-college) job that didn’t have a backlogged full plate of work from day one.

    7. Anonaly*

      1.5 weeks is too soon to make a judgment on workload. People don’t know you, they’re not emailing you, and you don’t have the training now to have multiple plates spinning (which is a good thing for being new). 1-2 months for workload is usually my expectation, and I’m also someone who flourishes in high stress/high workload environments. But I once knew in one day that a job absolutely sucked due to manager red flags and a high workload with absolutely no training/onboarding and irritability toward me when I asked questions.

    9. Ranon*

      I was bored to tears at 1.5 weeks when I started my current job. I’m about two months in and have nearly full time responsibilities now, and the future looks quite busy!

      It seems odd but in my experience the higher level you are the longer it takes to ramp up as the work is harder to hand off and good start points are less frequent. In the meantime, sounds like summer Fridays are in your future!

  33. Don't Cough On Me*

    A new person started on my team about a month ago, and for the last two weeks they’ve been very obviously sick. I’m talking loud coughing all day long, plus noisy and extended nose-blowing. I had a meeting with my manager last week and very gently mentioned that I’d been hearing a lot of coughing, just hoping to hear that this person had at least tested negative for COVID. My manager proceeded to give me a ton of unsolicited, detailed medical information about them (super inappropriate, I was too shocked to put a stop to it) including that they were negative for COVID but had COVID in the past so their colds are always very intense now. I have a ton of sympathy for this person because the last thing you want when starting a new job is to have to call in sick (our company doesn’t allow any WFH even for medical reasons), but I’m also about to lose my mind. I know there’s nothing I can do about it except try to ignore it and hope they get better soon but every time the coughing starts it feels like nails on a chalkboard and my shoulders are up around my ears all day. I have never felt “TGIF” so hard before.

    1. Just another queer reader*

      Oh no :((

      Not sure if you’re looking for solutions or just empathy, but I wonder if it would be possible to temporarily give this person their own office with a door. It could cut down on the germs and noise.

      Good luck.

      1. Don't Cough On Me*

        Mainly just wanted to vent though suggestions are welcome, with the caveat that my company has adopted a “COVID is over” mindset and is very rigid about the way they do things (never would a new hire be given an office even temporarily; only executives get real offices here).

        I’m trying to remind myself that I’m not getting the worst of it because I sit one row of cubes away from the cougher and I should just suck it up and try to tune it out. The people who have the worst of it are the cougher, since it sounds like they have long COVID which sucks super hard and they’re probably embarrassed about the whole situation, and the person in charge of training the cougher who has to sit side-by-side with them in their cubicle for a big chunk of every day. Then again, the person training the cougher never wears a mask so if they get sick I feel like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    2. mandatory anon*

      Do you have a lot of sick leave? Call in sick due to the anxiety and disruption of this sick coworker.

      1. Don't Cough On Me*

        I wish! I have a series of minor medical procedures happening throughout this year which are eating up my PTO so I’m only calling out if it’s an emergency (and from what my manager told me, this is probably going to be a recurring problem with this employee any time they get any kind of cold).

    3. kicking_k*

      Sympathy.

      FWIW, the cough may not be anything catching. I’ve had asthmatic bronchitis following colds or chest infections several times and feel awful about continuing to cough for weeks, but it does eventually stop. I’m otherwise not unwell. And I’m sure my colleagues get very tired of hearing me cough through the wall. I’m certainly sick of it by then!

      1. Don't Cough On Me*

        That’s a good point! I think my reaction has a lot to do with how closely coughing is associated to COVID now, so even though I know it’s not COVID I have an immediate stress reaction to hearing anybody cough that I never had before 2020. Hopefully I can break that reflex.

        1. kicking_k*

          Don’t Cough On Me, I feel the same when I hear anyone else cough! It is a reflex by now, that’s exactly right. I feel pretty self-conscious, and suspect my colleagues are almost as tired of hearing me tell them I’m Covid-negative as they are of hearing me cough.

          My last cold was at the beginning of March, and I’m still occasionally coughing. I’m masked, and taking my inhalers, and hopefully it’ll soon stop.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        My sister has been coughing since 2006, more so if she gets just a bit chilled. In these times, it is very awkward.

      3. Maggie*

        Same same, and would give anything not to have this but they aren’t contagious for 2 weeks.

  34. To reply or not!*

    Time sensitive question! I got an email today from an internal client, thanking/praising me for my work on a recent issue, and saying she considers me an honorary member of her workgroup. She copied several people (and a few of those people have chimed in either reply-all or just to me, echoing what she said).

    Question: Do I reply?? Should I acknowledge the email and the praise? I’m thinking something like “Thanks for this, and for the honorary group membership! Just doing my job :)”

    If I reply, do I reply just to her, to the entire group, or to her and also the people who chimed in?

    1. TheOtherJennifer*

      I would reply all with that simple thanks – it’s great to work with you !

    2. TPS reporter*

      I also feel awkward with this type of thing but think it is good to reply to match her energy. Saying something like you put or- “it’s great working with you too, I hope you all have a good weekend.” Something generic that signals friendliness?

    3. Nathalie*

      I am TERRIBLE at receiving praise and compliments, and while I’ve gotten better at just saying “Thanks!” in my personal life, I also have no idea how to respond to praise at work so I’m very interested to see responses to this. (I got a message from a manager on my team the other day thanking me for doing most of the work on a big project we have right now, I replied something like “Happy to help” and then she said that she was going to make sure to mention it in a report to her bosses and I basically had a system malfunction in my brain and replied with a subject change. Super smooth.)

      1. To reply or not!*

        Yes! In person I can feel myself physically trying to shrink when people are praising me. I do not like being in any kind of spotlight!

    4. Doctors Whom*

      In this case I would reply all, “Thank you all so much for your kind words. I greatly enjoy working with your team and look forward to our next collaboration.”

      Don’t say “Just doing my job.” Let her feel grateful to you. Not in a bad way, but she obviously feels you delivered well on something important to her and she is acknowledging that. Don’t downplay your impact on her work.

      1. To reply or not!*

        Ooh, I like the “thank you for your kind words” phrasing! I am going to use that.

      2. Purple Cat*

        ^^ this. No need to downplay your contributions – there are a LOT of people that don’t “do their job”.

    5. anon for this though*

      I would reply directly and say “Thank you so much, that is wonderful to hear!”

      1. calonkat*

        Eh, I’d reply all, because it was stated that others were chiming in as well. One reply all and you’ve said thanks to everyone :)

  35. Resigning via phone?*

    So I’m starting my new job on July 1, and I originally wanted to give my current job one month of notice (so I was planning on giving notice on June 1). However, my supervisor (the person I have to give notice to per my employee handbook) actually went on vacation this week, which I didn’t realize until I came in on Wednesday ready to quit! My supervisor was supposed to be back on Friday (today), but OF COURSE her flight was cancelled and now she’s trapped in an airport.

    My issue is this: I really want to give my notice today. I want to give my employer that long notice period and, on a personal level, I am ready to have the fact that I’m moving to another job out in the open (it’s been incredibly stressful for me feeling like I’m keeping such a big secret from everyone!). Is this a situation where it would be appropriate to call her and give my notice not face-to-face?

    I’d really appreciate any feedback — on one hand, she’s probably already having a crappy day being stuck in an airport, and I’d feel bad adding to her plate. On the other hand, I really don’t want to have to wait until Monday and I’d like to just be done with it.

    Help!

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Of course it’s fine to resign by phone. Just document it same day in an emailed letter of resignation.

    2. Emm*

      Does it logistically make any difference to your plans to give notice next week, or is it just an emotional burden that you’re ready to part with (and get the new job out in the open)? My instinct is to wait until Monday. I’m curious to know what other people think.

      1. Resigning via phone?*

        It probably wouldn’t make a logistical difference. I had told my new job not to announce my hiring until June 3 (not that I seriously think that they would announce anything, but I actually accepted the new job back in April and was nervous about somehow my current job finding out and being fired before I was ready to resign), but I suppose if my new job for some reason decides to start sharing publicly that I’m going to be working for them then waiting until Monday might mean coworkers finding out I’m leaving over the weekend.

        In reality, I only need to give two weeks of notice, but I’ve worked here for just under a year and my supervisor has spent a lot of time training me, so I thought giving more time might help alleviate some of my guilt. The main reason I want to give my notice is because I’m just so nervous! It’s a conversation I’ve been dreading for weeks and weeks, and I just want to get it over with.

        1. Emm*

          Ah, that’s a difficult situation. If I put myself in your shoes, I totally understand the urge to get it over with. But from your supervisor’s perspective, that might just be bad news on top of an already bad day.
          You mention feeling guilty, but having an employee resign after you get back from a stressful holiday might be at least a little better than having them do it while you’re stuck at the airport.

          I think I’d still wait until Monday. But if it’d ruin your weekend to be stuck thinking about it, then it might be better to just rip off the band-aid!

    3. Purple Cat*

      Effectively, there’s no difference to the organization if you resign today or Monday, but I totally understand wanting to get it off your chest. If you have a close relationship, I would text her and ask her if she has a few minutes to talk. Or, you can also send her the info in an email, and then set up a meeting for Monday to discuss so she doesn’t feel like you were trying to avoid a conversation about it.

    4. Person from the Resume*

      I don’t know. Your supervisor probably can’t do much to react to your resignation stuck in an airport.

      Use what you know about her to determine if it would help her to be mentally prepared and think about it over the weekend or if she would want to wait to find out when she’s back at work and can immediately begin whatever tasks she needs to take to make your transition out as smooth as possible.

      Also was it a work trip so she’s working or is this a vacation?

    5. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      Wait until Monday. Being stuck at the airport sucks and getting this news would just add another thing for them to deal with. I get it. I gave notice Wednesday, even though I had known for a week I got an offer and was just waiting for the background check to clear. So I felt for over a week I was lying and hiding stuff. And it was a huge relief once I gave notice. But really, there is zero benefit of telling your boss today vs Monday. If it helps, think of waiting as saving them from more stress today.

    6. binge eating cereal*

      Agreed, just wait. I have been waiting on clearance for an offer for a job since April 17 (that I interviewed for in March!). I know that my start date will be at the end of summer, so every day that I don’t give notice leaks into that period of time when I hoped I could help them plan for the future (I’m in a leadership role in a fledgling organization that is scaling up majorly this year). I had to have my performance review on Tuesday this week and felt like the worst person ever. I am seriously hoping that they will be able to proceed with the official offer next week before the rest of the leadership team leaves for a work trip next week because they’d have a lot of time to process together, away from me.

      Putting myself in this situation I think I would feel worse knowing that I piled on my boss at a time when they couldn’t do a darn thing about it. Stay strong!

    7. Resigning via phone?*

      Well, I feel bad going against the majority here, but after talking it through with a co-worker, I decided to call and put in my notice today. I apologized for doing it while she was away from the office, but she said she totally understood and was very supportive of me leaving for this (really different and unique!) opportunity. So I feel like a heavy weight was lifted off my shoulders, even though I could have feasibly waited until after the weekend.

  36. Peppa*

    I am in the process of leaving my job and waiting for my background check for my new job to be completed before I am able to provide notice to my current employer. While I certainly have things here and there at my current job that aren’t my favorite, it’s a job I mostly enjoy with people I respect and like. I’ve felt weird having accepted a job (I have an offer letter!) but am waiting until everything clears until I have a start date and can officially provide notice. The new position is in a new industry and seems incredibly interesting and represents a huge salary increase (almost double). It’s a weird sort of limbo and I feel guilty for “lying”. That being said, I am doing my best to not project any change in my work quality, my commitment to future projects, and I haven’t told anyone at work about the new job or even the fact that I was looking.

    I had a weird conversation lately with my direct manager in which he scheduled an unexpected meeting. The meeting was positive, how can I support you, what resources do you need, how are things going – that sort of thing. I’m incredibly suspicious that in the process of clearing my background check, something got back to my current employer. The timing of this conversation is very odd. I explicitly asked that the company doing the background check not contact my current employer and provided alternative means of confirming my dates of employment. But I cannot get over the timing of the conversation. It’s entirely possible that this is all one giant coincidence, but I’m not sure what to think. I tried during the meeting to straddle the line without lying. Even if it is a coincidence, this meeting did nothing to alleviate the guilt I was already feeling about leaving my position that is interesting and engaging work with people I like.

    Has anyone navigated these kinds of conversations before? I’m trying to be as professional as possible and also managing my own complicated feelings about leaving.

    1. Lab Boss*

      All I can offer you is this: If it made sense for your current employer to let you go, they would. Your boss might feel bad about doing it and wish that wasn’t how it had to be, but they’d let you go. That’s not some huge scandal you should be angry about, it’s the nature of a business relationship. If I got wind a valuable employee was job hunting, I would also probably try to retain them- but any halfway competent boss knows that sometimes they just can’t keep someone, for reasons that might be totally out of their control.

      I’ve had employees leave for reasons like yours and I was disappointed to lose them, but happy for them as people. Go ahead and tell your boss and coworkers you enjoyed working there! If there were things you’ll miss, say it! Leaving a job isn’t saying that you hate everything about it, and it’s been very gratifying when people on their way out have told me that they’ll miss working with/for me.

      1. Peppa*

        Thank you for that reminder. I have learned so much from my team and my boss/grand boss/great grand boss and I truly value my relationships with them to the point where I wouldn’t hesitate coming back to work for this company again if the right opportunity arose. I think my fondness for everyone is making everything more emotionally fraught for me.

        1. Lab Boss*

          100% Tell them that. The first person I ever hired left for an amazing opportunity, and before he left he told me that he’d learned lessons from me that he was sure would set him up for a great future. I was riding that high of feeling appreciated for a week.

    2. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      Having just gone through a background check (and sounds like the background check is being done by a 3rd party) if you checked not to contact your current employer, they won’t. When I got my report back, it was clear they had not, employment verification was by me providing a redacted current paystub. So I doubt it is from that. I guess it’s possible someone from your new job knows your boss or knows someone who does and it got to them another way. But it could be a coincidence.

      I also really like my job but there were a few very valid reasons that made it necessary for me to move on. While my boss and team were sad to lose me, they were all also very happy for me. It will be ok. It did suck but once it was out in the open, I felt much better.

      Hopefully the background check clears soon, and congratulations!!!

      1. Peppa*

        Thank you!

        I think it’s the possibility of a couple of different factors plus my own anxiety brain that are driving me nuts. My division is going through a bit of an upheaval with new hires, higher turnover than typical (like everyone else everywhere), some changes in org structure, etc. So it truly could have been a check-in.

        I also had the sitcom-level worthy experience of running into a colleague when I was at another company for an interview. Thankfully, they are distant enough that I don’t work with them on a regular basis, but they definitely know exactly who I am and the possibility that it might have slipped out to my boss has been weighing on me for awhile.

        Yes, the background check is being done by a 3rd party for a government-adjacent position, so it’s very, very thorough. I think a lot of this is also the stress of knowing without being able to give notice.

        1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

          Oh I get the anxiety! Mine wasn’t super through, and I really am the most basic person, so no worries about not passing it, but I still was nervous! It was a massive relief to final help able to give my notice.

    3. tessa*

      Hi Peppa,

      You are exactly me back in January. I, too, wondered if my then-boss knew something was up, as she kept reminding me I could talk with her about anything, and the timing was beyond weird.

      But I don’t think there is much you can do except use Alison’s “Opportunity came along and I couldn’t pass it up.” I understand your guilt, but I’d use that energy to focus on the great things upcoming for you.

  37. Minimal Pear*

    Alright, I just ran into this so now I’m curious–how long should you wait when someone has scheduled a meeting with you and then they don’t show up? Especially if you’re a lot more junior than them? I considered waiting for the full meeting time but I frankly don’t have the patience for that.

    1. TheOtherJennifer*

      6 minutes. if it’s a higher up, or someone unfamiliar you could ping them and ask if this is still a good time.

    2. ThatGirl*

      depends if you’re in the same physical space or not. if it’s an online meeting I’d probably keep the window open a little longer; if it was someone in an office with me, I might ping them online or walk by their desk to check, but not stay in the meeting room the whole time.

    3. ecnaseener*

      In person or on zoom?
      When you’re the junior one I’d probably try to contact them at 5 mins and in total wait 10-15 mins.

    4. Irish Teacher*

      I’d say after half an hour or so, you could justifiably leave.

      Looking at some of the other replies though, this may well be cultural. I would be extremely impressed if everybody was present for a meeting within 6 minutes of its intended starting time. Unless I knew them to be very punctual, I honestly wouldn’t even take them as late at that point.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Yeah, people do tend to run a bit late for meetings at my work–although they would probably all be there by 6 minutes. This was just with one other person so I was just kind of sitting there waiting. I did end up waiting for about half an hour.

          1. ThatGirl*

            Eh, if I have a half hour meeting, I would expect everyone to either be there or ping me within the first 5 minutes. Stuff happens, of course, and I’d probably wait a bit longer than that, especially on zoom.

            1. Irish Teacher*

              Must be cultural. I don’t know if I have ever been at a meeting with more than one or two other people that had everybody there within five minutes of starting time. I will add that I am a person who usually arrives early for everything, so I just take it for granted I will be waiting at least 15-20 minutes for anything to begin.

              1. ThatGirl*

                I’m chronically early too, but again, for a short meeting if you miss 15 minutes that’s half the meeting! Now, if it’s an all-morning sort of thing that’s different.

                1. Irish Teacher*

                  I meant I’m usually there 10 minutes before the meeting and it will usually be at least 5 and probably 10 minutes after the arranged time that it will start. Which yeah, can mean you end up with only 20 minutes instead of the arranged 30. Yeah, I agree with you that it would be better if things started on time, but…they never do. Our national train service, by the way, officially state that “on time” means “arrived with in ten minutes of the time it was due.”

            2. Minimal Pear*

              In this specific instance, it was a very long meeting. (Part of me was glad it ended up not happening, honestly.)

    5. kiki*

      For virtual, I would say 15 minutes. Ping them or send them an email to ask about rescheduling. If the meeting was on the longer side, like an hour or longer, offer to jump back on the call if they’re just running late.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Yeah in this case I waited for quite a while but finally did some other, pretty urgent work–honestly this meeting was scheduled at a terrible time for me, with absolutely no warning/information on what it was on. I did finally hear back about what happened and it definitely wasn’t a situation where the person I was meeting with would be able to hop back on anytime soon.

    6. Beth*

      It depends on the difference between their status and yours. 5-10 minutes is reasonable for someone who’s only a bit above you; 15-20 for someone well above, and half an hour for someone very senior.

      When I was in college and grad school, these standards were applied for professors with different levels of tenure. You were expected to wait the entire period if your professor was a department head.

    7. mreasy*

      I wait 5 minutes, then I ping to say “I’m on the line if this is still a good time! If not, happy to reschedule whenever it works for you.” Then if I’m junior to them or they’re someone I really want to connect with (client), I’ll wait for 6 more minutes (11 total after start time), before sending an email that says “I’m so sorry we couldn’t connect today – let me know when it’s best to reschedule” (or, if you have open time, “I’m free until Xpm if you want to try later on today). If it’s someone I am senior to, I will wait only 3 more minutes after the ping (8 minutes total). You might be like, hey why do you have these specific numbers? I don’t know, I invented them out of thin air but it helps me to have a personal policy. YMMV.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Haha I feel you on the personal policy! I did ping a few times but haven’t managed to reschedule yet.

    8. A Penguin!*

      In person: 5-10 minutes.
      Zoom or equivalent: 10-20 minutes, assuming I can be doing other work and just holding the meeting window open. If waiting on the remote meeting is somehow preventing me from other work, back to the 5-10 minute window.

      In either case, quick email or chat message (depending on culture of the workplace) after said time with the gist of ‘sorry we couldn’t connect about blah topic, let me know if/when you want to reschedule’.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Yeah it was Zoom but I couldn’t really do anything else (and, admittedly, was indulging in a spot of irritation and didn’t WANT to do anything else while waiting anyway).

    9. Esmeralda*

      I’d try getting hold of them at 5 and 15 minutes.

      If you can just leave zoom on and do your other work, that’s what I do. Because it’s easy.

      If it’s an in-person meeting, I might hang around but do other work while waiting. Depends on what’s going on. I always have work with me that can be done on the fly.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Yeah I tried at roughly those intervals but didn’t get a response until much later.

    10. Purple Cat*

      5 minutes. And then you ping them (or their assistant) and “check-in”. If they say a few more minutes, you wait 5 more minutes, unless they specifically said they need 15 minutes (or whatever) and then you send an email rescheduling.

      I cannot fathom working in an organization like these other peeps where people are routinely 20 minutes late for meetings. How does anything get done if people spend half their day sitting around waiting for other people?

      1. Minimal Pear*

        In their defense, a tree fell on their house right when our meeting was supposed to start and that’s why they never showed and didn’t tell me why.

        1. Minimal Pear*

          (I mean, obviously they did eventually tell me why, but it took quite a while. Anyway, I suspected it might be something bad once I hit the 15-minute mark of waiting, because normally people are pretty punctual here.)

  38. Orange Flags?*

    I just started a new job a month ago and things have been feeling a little funky. I’m not sure if this is just new job jitters, a different work culture or some genuine orange flags. The directors on my team have said that nearly every other department is difficult to work with. Same directors have been a little checked out during team meetings (checking their phones, needing things repeated because they weren’t paying attention to the conversation, having side-conversations while the rest of the team is focusing on the meeting).

    My direct manager replies to only about half of my emails, which is tricky when I’m a new hire still figuring things out. Staff members are uncharitable about other employees, including those that left the department (referring to someone being publicly shamed about a work misstep). I left a job that drove me to burn out and definitely had issues but at least folks were collaborative and gave everyone the benefit of the doubt.
    Anyone else experience this?
    Should I talk about this with my manager? Stick it out and see if things change?

    1. Beth*

      It doesn’t sound good to me, but if you’ve only been there a month, it seems a bit early to tell whether the culture is unhealthy or just different from what you’re used to. I would stick it out for at least three months, but continue to pay close attention.

  39. crookedglasses*

    Question for people who have gone to a hybrid work environment with hoteling / desk sharing – what can companies do to make this work as well as possible? Pre-COVID everybody at my company had private offices. Through COVID our headcount has grown too high to allow for that to continue, and we are continuing to grow. Currently we have some people coming in with varying frequency (anywhere from almost full-time to a few hours every week or two), and other people who aren’t coming in at all.

    Long-term, our hybrid plan will likely be to have people targeting being in the office anywhere from 4-12 hours/week. For such a modest amount of time, we’re looking at transitioning the office to be a combination of open shared workspaces, reservable phone booths, and reservable meeting rooms. This will mean phasing out private offices and possibly even private/dedicated desks.

    It seems like a fair number of companies are going to a similar set up, as it’s just too hard to justify paying rent on so many private offices that mostly sit empty. So for people who are already working in this kind of set-up, what can we do to make it work as well as possible for our employees? Is there anything your office did that made the transition especially smooth or especially bumpy? Thank you!

    1. kiki*

      One thing that is obvious but my last company didn’t do is survey how often people planned to come in and then have a system to continue tracking how and when folks actually come in to make sure there are an adequate amount of facilities each day.

      Make sure there are enough desks set up with equipment to actually do the jobs of folks coming into the office. Survey each department and ask what they need to have a productive day. My former company planned for the lowest common denominator, so there were plenty of empty desks, but there weren’t enough with monitors or phone hook-ups. So developers and customer support agents had a hard time doing their jobs from the office, but they were still expected to come in at least once a week.

      Think about potential dates more employees than average will want to come in. Are there all-staff meetings people like to come into the office for? Does a nearby restaurant do a great taco Tuesday special that employees like to go to? Plan for those days. My last company looked at the average amount of folks coming into the office each day, but didn’t realize some Mondays and Fridays were virtually empty while Wednesdays were above capacity.

    2. Peppa*

      Would it be possible to have some sort of lockers/secure storage so people could keep some things at the office instead of moving all of their stuff from home to work everyday?

      Maybe office supplies at every desk, an easy way to report issues (a ticket system that says hey desk 213 is low on tape and the chair is wobbly or whatever)

      1. Sutemi*

        This is key for me, to have some private locked drawer space. For anyone who doesn’t commute by car, it is tremendously more convenient to keep a couple nice pair of shoes and some supplies at work rather than carrying them in every day.
        I also don’t want to have to carry a mouse/keyboard/power cord, I want to have a duplicate set at my workstation that I can dock right into.

    3. Alex*

      My office made this transition, and I think the result is that hardly anyone wants to come in anymore. The space is open and not private and so not really conducive to actually working. People who do come in work in the conference rooms if they can get one.

      I’m unclear from your post if you are planning on moving offices altogether or just renovating your current space. I actually think that most people would prefer to work in a private office, even if they have to share it on other days. Could you, instead of eliminating private offices, assign people to offices as a group so that a group of say, 3-4 people all share one office but at different times? I personally think that is more comfortable–you can keep a small number of personal items there, even if some others also keep some personal items, so it can feel more like your own space.

    4. Purple Cat*

      We don’t have enough seats for the number of employees.
      Each VP had to get data from each of their employees on the # of days they would be in the office. Then each VP got a certain # of desks to accommodate. If you were coming in <3 days/wk you had to share with someone on your team. Each "group" sits together and basically fills in the seats as they see fit. So most people know exactly who they're sharing a desk with and when. There were definitely some bumps in the road where it felt like some department were "claiming seats" for future hires leaving some other departments short-handed for current staff. The other issue is technology. Your IT needs to be aware of how many different laptop/monitor configurations you have going on and is it technically feasible for coworkers to be at the same desk.

    5. Bexx*

      My old company moved to hoteling back around 2012/2013 and I personally loved it! I few things I think they did right:
      – easy online booking system so that you could book a workspace well in advance (I think things were bookable 30 days out)
      – ensured that everyone had laptops compatible with the tech available at each desk (monitor, docking station, and phone at a minimum) and that additional tech was available at some desks (second monitor, adjustable standing desks, etc)
      – provided everyone with a lockable little filing cabinet on wheels so that they could keep files, keyboards, mouses, snacks, etc on site and just tow it over to their desk for the day or leave it there if they booked the same desk for the whole week
      – had designated “quiet zones” for people who preferred fewer distractions
      – had a ton of phone booth and bookable office space of varying sizes
      – had 100% buy-in at the top – CEO happily gave up his lovely corner office and moved to the hot-desk system along with almost everyone else
      – made reasonable exceptions for people who really really needed a static desk (the production marketing folks who had TONS of samples, color books, etc and their own dedicated large scale printer, the paralegal who needed to sit need the actual legal filing cabinets, the person with mobility issues, etc)

    6. Gnome*

      We have some cubes for flexible work stations. The light is on a motion detector, so if you are in a long zoom meeting, they will go off. This is really horrible in some cases (like conducting zoom interviews). I work out of a different building but had to go into HQ one day and I was on a zoom interview for a candidate and ended up just parking my computer in a random person’s office who wasn’t in.

    7. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      We have
      * a booking system, that was set to notify in case of COVID exposure
      * designated space for some select teams, but this is a guideline rather than set in stone
      * lockers
      * a laptop dock and two 27-inch IPS monitors per desk
      * quiet areas for people who want to work with minimum noise
      * sound proofed conference rooms for two (aka “fishbowl”), five and ten people

  40. ecnaseener*

    Is there an expectation that EAP counseling is only for issues of a certain severity (for lack of a better word)?

    I’m noticing some unhealthy thought patterns in myself that aren’t causing me acute distress but just sort of bothering me, the type of thing that might be helped by talking through with a counselor for an hour or so at some point. All else equal I would of course prefer to use the EAP rather than find and pay for a therapist, but I don’t know if that’s what the EAP is there for.

    (FWIW I work for a hospital so I imagine plenty of people are calling them with acute distress/burnout/etc. My job is not patient-facing and not onsite.)

    1. Minimal Pear*

      I was just rereading the interview with the person who worked for an EAP and I remembered they said it was for everything! There were plenty of non-therapy things they offered, and it sounds like they have a triage system and would be able to refer you. I know when I was a kid I used a parent’s EAP therapy appointments meant for family members for something that wasn’t very serious.

    2. RagingADHD*

      No. You use it when you need it, just like you’d go to PT for a stress fracture or sprained ankle. You don’t have to have a limb falling off for PT to be helpful.

      Same thing. Deal with stuff that bothers you BEFORE it gets bad.

    3. Just another queer reader*

      I’ve reached out for some relatively small things, and it’s been very helpful.

      I heard a rumor that the EAP helped someone find tickets to a sports game once. I think they can help with a lot of things beyond a crisis.

      1. ThatGirl*

        oh yeah, ours advertises services like party planning — it’s not JUST for crises.

    4. Chauncy Gardener*

      Oh gosh, no! It’s for all sorts of things. No severity grading required!

    5. Irish Teacher*

      I’m no expert but it seems to be that it would be in everybody’s interest for employees to take advantage of the counselling while the issue is still minor and before it starts to have an impact on their work and life. I know not all issues necessarily escalate, but given that they can, it seems like dealing with minor issues would make more sense than waiting for a person to potentially reach crisis point or to start having difficulties that have an impact on their work.

    6. Lady Danbury*

      Nope, EAP is for everything! My sister works at our local EAP and they get more non-work calls than work calls. No issue is too big or small, but obviously the approach would be different depending on the severity.

  41. mid-level software dev*

    Advice for Avoiding Layoffs in Tech
    There have been a notable amount of layoffs and rescinded offers in tech recently. Does anybody have tips or advice for avoiding companies likely to layoff or rescind offers? Is there a way to negotiate severance or some sort of payout if the offer is rescinded by the company due to a hiring freeze?

    I’m a software engineer with about 4 years experience, so I’ve never really gone through a tech bubble burst (beyond the small one at the beginning of the pandemic). I’m looking for my next role. There are definitely a lot of folks still actively hiring, so that’s good, but I’m really worried I could be hired, put in my notice, then have the rug pulled out from me. I had some big, unexpected expenses last year, so I’m actively trying to replenish my savings now. My current job seems stable in that, yes, the company will exist and continue to pay me, but they’re chaotic and not great to work for.

    Right now, I’m avoiding applying at any start-up (I also don’t think that’s my vibe as a developer), I’m not applying to anything crypto (again, not really my vibe anyway, but seems especially unstable now). Do folks have any other wisdom? I know there’s no way to be certain of stability, but I’d really like to make sure I make a smart move.

    1. Doctors Whom*

      You won’t be able to negotiate any kind of compensation for a rescinded offer.

      you have a few good instincts:
      – stay away from crypto and anything that calls itself nonfungible
      – stay away from early stage startups (late stage is an entirely different ballgame)

      I would add:
      – stay away from anything helmed by Elon Musk or that he is trying to buy, for infinity reasons
      – stay away from anywhere that you don’t understand how the tech solves the problem (obviously, being a dev has a lot of different meanings)
      – i probably wouldn’t jump on anything in a social media company right now
      – watch the news

      It is still largely an employee market in your field – unemployment is basically negative and has been for a long time.

      1. mid-level software dev*

        Lol, would not touch an Elon Musk venture with a ten foot pole.
        Thank you so much for your insight! I figured negotiating compensation for a rescinded offer isn’t a thing, but I just wanted to check.

      2. onyxzinnia*

        “stay away from anywhere that you don’t understand how the tech solves the problem”

        I completely agree with this point, I would be wary of any tech company where you can’t easily identify how their product solves an industry or consumer problem. Also, if there is an actual problem to solve in the first place or is the company someone’s vanity project (more common risk for early start ups).

        Adding to Doctors Whom’s list:
        – Fintech startups (I think it’s a bloated market but YMMV)
        – Mortgage-related startups (volatile housing market)
        – Any start up that has been aggressively hiring in the last year ( I’ve noticed a lot of the layoffs are from companies that grew too quickly and need to scale back)

    2. Brownie*

      If you’re in the US look for federal contractors or the national labs, places with long-term projects or contracts with the government including manufacturing facilities and long-term maintenance. There’s a severe tech deficit in those places and with the latest round of fed-mandated market rate increases to stop the tech drain to private companies the salary is comparable to private with equal or better benefits. Stability is phenomenal compared to most private companies, but management and work chaos is going to be incredibly dependent on the individual team or group you’d be going to.

      After working tech/IT freelance and in tech startups I moved to a fed contractor for the stability and now work with people who’ve had their tech job here for 20+ years. The sheer number of older tech folks is incredible too, they’re not pushed out due to age (see IBM’s shenanigans for example) either. I have no doubt that as long as I continue to work at a “Meets expectations” level at minimum and the gov contracts get renewed I’ll have this job until I decide to leave or retire.

      1. kiki*

        Thank you for the advice! I’ve been considering federal contracting roles, but I’m not sure I want to go through the hassle of security clearance, which seems to be a requirement for a lot of them.

        1. Doctors Whom*

          Security clearances are hella paperwork, but they can open a lot of doors. For most people a Secret is not difficult to obtain at all, and if you stay out of bankruptcy, away from federally controlled substances, don’t have any besties in complicated countries, a TS is straightforward if time consuming. The think that I think gives a lot of people pause is that once you start climbing the security clearance ladder, they ask for contacts of people who knew you at various jobs and addresses. I can see a lot of legit reasons people would not want to expose friends, neighbors, and family to the process. But clearances take awhile so if you go somewhere that will hire you and then sponsor you to obtain it, you have an advantage in walking in the door somewhere else later if you hold an active clearance that can be transferred to a new employer – because new employer now does not need to wait to put you on a project that requires a clearance.

        2. Brownie*

          It’s not that big of a hassle honestly, filling out a 20+ page form every 5 years and promising not to lie or cover up illegal activities or share sensitive data is the basics of it. I’ve seen private tech company agreements (mainly startups to be fair) far more onerous than the security clearance agreements. It does have some lifelong downsides, financial and travel monitoring in the main. If you’re a naturally private person there’s not much of a lifestyle change and chances are you’ll be on a company project team instead of anything actually dealing with sensitive data. On the future side of things an active clearance is a massive salary booster should you decide to leave the position later on. If I wanted to give up my 100% remote position and being a homeowner for an in-person job and renting I could make almost double my current salary just because of the clearance. Going back to the private sector it also opens a lot of doors, financial companies for example love people who’ve learned to not talk about company/insider information.

          It is a factor in a federal job, yes, but at the interviews ask how big of an impact it has had on the daily life of the folks you’d be working with and judge if it’s worth it then. For me the stability totally outweighs any clearance headaches for my mental health alone, the knowledge that I could be here until I retire has cut my anxiety down so far it’s not actively interfering with my life anymore.

        3. darlingpants*

          It’s not that much work *for you,* the investigators have to do a lot of it.

          I did need to find my dad’s immigration paperwork so my husband could get his, but it was a few hours of work and his job is very stable and has great benefits.

    3. Voluptuousfire*

      I work in tech as well on the recruitment side and I fee your pain! My company is small but stable but with all the news, it definitely has me concerned and it puts me right back to my un/underemployment right after the Great Recession. There are still many companies hiring, so it seems to be a good thing.

      A lot of the volatility is due to the “unicorn” VC backed start ups burning though their funding.

      One think I question is if the market-induced layoffs are really about market instability vs. the opportunity to clean house and have a valid excuse. That happened when the pandemic hit. Many companies laid off people due to Covid and were not in Covid-hit industries like hospitality and live events.

      1. kiki*

        It does seem like for a lot of the companies who have done layoffs, it’s more of a correction after bananas hiring streaks rather than a cutback after steady growth, which makes me feel a bit calmer.

        1. voluptuousfire*

          True. I interviewed with quite a few of the tech startups laying off people and I’m glad none of them worked out.

    4. Nicki Name*

      I think the cumulative effect on the tech industry job market is that it will go from unbelievably bananas to just bananas.

      If a company is tied to a specific industry, consider whether it’s one that had a bonanza due to the pandemic and is now deflating as people revert to their old habits, or if it’s something less affected by that.

      If you’re looking at a pre-IPO company, ask if it’s profitable– those are the companies which are being rewarded with more funding right now. Breaking even has suddenly become way more important than market share.

    5. voluptuousfire*

      You could also try software consultancies. They work with companies to build apps and such. I work for one and have recruiting colleagues in other consultancies. They usually work with pair programming, extreme programming, TDD, and so on. Or at least my company does. :)

      Feel free to email me if you’re interested. My email is in my gravatar

    6. Girasol*

      You can’t tell ahead of time if your company is going to be in a merger, either bought or sold, but the risk of layoff rises significantly with either case. So if you find out that a merger is coming, time to look at moving on.

    7. calonkat*

      Pay is always on the low side, (and raises are non-existent) but state government is stable and usually in need of developers.

      1. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

        I’d be careful, going for a job with low pay can make them look as someone than can be lowballed. It happened to me at the beginning of my carreer.

  42. BRI*

    I’m suddenly back in the job search, as a job that I recently started a few months has had a lot of red flags (manager is a real character, company doesn’t offer merit, career progression seems very limited) and overall a bad fit culturally to me. I unfortunately didn’t foresee in accepting the job.

    In interviews, how should I address my short time/why I am looking for a new company and role, without sounding like red flag myself? Additionally, any suggestions how I can avoid being in this type of situation?

    1. kiki*

      I say something along the lines of “After starting work, I realized it wasn’t the best fit for me. I’m excited about this role because I think we’ll align more on X,Y,Z. This role seems like it would allow me to do more of A,B,C.” Something like that shifts the focus to what excites you about this new role instead of focusing on what you don’t like about your current one.

    2. VioletClaire*

      I’ve been in this situation. Left a job after a few months because it was the wrong fit with a very difficult manager. In interviews, I focused on why I wanted to join the company I was interviewing for rather than focusing on why I wanted to leave the other role. If there was something specific in the job description that excited me that I wasn’t doing in the current role, I emphasized that too. A few folks didn’t even ask about the short stay, which surprised me a bit. Avoiding a bad fit is tough. For career progression, I’ve looked at LinkedIn profiles of current employees to see if they’ve ever been promoted or just stayed in the same role for years. I would ask about professional development opportunities in the interview and how success is measured and defined in the role you’re interviewing for. Sometimes I look at reviews on Glassdoor but those can sometimes skew negative so take them with a grain of salt. Good luck!

      1. BRI*

        Thank you! A few followup questions: the companies who did ask the “why are you leaving” question, how did you respond? Also, when applying, did you keep your short term role on your resume?

  43. binicornofthesea*

    I’m applying to jobs where a very good friend (like college roommate, was in her wedding party, good friend), is in HR- let’s call her Sam. I’m not sure if the departments I’m applying to are what she covers (and I believe she deals more with faculty than staff, so I’m clear on that front)- I just don’t know how this would be optics-wise. I don’t anticipate there being any like, favoritism or anything but this is something I’ve never had to worry about before! I just want a (for lack of a better term) vibe check.

    I want to stay at this institution because of the benefits and perks offered institution wide (and general commute and area is where I like to be), but my current position/department isn’t able to provide what I need as I grow in my career and skills- and $$$ but that’s a whole different issue. The departments with roles that would be a step up, all just happen to be in this other college that Sam works in.

    For context, this is a University with multiple colleges within- for example, I work in the Civil Engineering Department in the College of Engineering, Sam works in HR for the Nursing School. This hasn’t been an issue before, as the college level HR departments don’t cross streams. Any advice on how to proceed, or how keep everything kosher, would be extremely appreciated!!

    1. Lab Boss*

      Check to see if there’s a referral process and Sam can refer you. That will keep it all aboveboard, and might even get you a little edge in your application being considered. If the position would create a definite conflict of interest for her then you might as well know that in advance. Assuming it doesn’t, it lets them go into it with the knowledge that they may have to keep track of how much her influence overlaps yours, and develop you accordingly.

      1. binicornofthesea*

        Would you believe me if I said I completely forgot referrals were a thing? The brain fog is real, lol. Thanks so much. :)

    2. Midwest Manager*

      Does it make sense to just ask Sam if she is linked to the department where you’re applying? If you’re applying to work as a peer to Sam, and not in the departments served by Sam’s office, that’s still not a conflict unless she’s on the hiring committee. If that’s the case, you ought to let Sam know that you’re applying so she can recuse herself or take appropriate precautions.

      I ran into something similar when I applied for my current job (in a university with a similar structure as you mention). A friend is in the college-level HR, and once I was hired into the department, the college adjusted the unit assignments so that there would be zero conflict of interest due to our friendship.

      Universities, no matter how big, are really small communities. Eventually you’ll know people across the institution. This kind of thing is more common than you might realize, and shouldn’t be an issue.

    3. tamarack and fireweed*

      I think it’s entirely common for university staff to move between units in their career progression. The institution I work for happens to be the only one in a several-hundred-mile radius and also well regarded academically, with a good number of externally funded units, so it’s completely inevitable that people like/know each other, if they aren’t outright related. Sure, in other places people move more between institutions, so it’s rarer to run into friends and family at random work events.

      As long as you aren’t giving any impression that you are hiding things I see no reason for any optics issue. Eg. if you’re a fiscal officer or facilities administrator or laboratory manager or IT person at the College of Engineering and want to step into a one-notch-up position at the School of Nursing, I’d say just apply, and if/when you get an interview, during chit-chat, you can say something like “I want to mention something up-front: Sam Pencilsharpener, who works in your HR department, is an old college friend of mine. This has nothing to do with my application – I just to get this out here so that everyone knows, and in case you prefer my application file to be handled by someone else, if it would be her normally.” (Well, smoother than that. You get the idea.)

      Also, frankly, HR should have little impact on hiring decisions anyway, other than as the destination for background check information. As far as referrals are concerned, if HR qualifies for that (I think sometimes HR is explicitly excluded?) sure, go for it!

      1. eeeek*

        Underscoring this point from the comment above: “HR should have little impact on hiring decisions anyway, other than as the destination for background check information.” In my experience at my university (which also has multiple schools and colleges), school/college HR units process job postings, analyze salary bands/offers, sort out issues with cross-unit transfers, ensure compliance with policy and regulations, etc. They train search committee chairs and offer support for the search, but don’t participate in the search itself. Hiring units convene the committees that review applications and organize interviews. HR can advise the chair that a qualified individual who was laid off due to restructuring/budget should be considered for an interview – but there’s no requirement to hire them if the committee doesn’t want to.
        So, at my university, “I have a friend in HR” wouldn’t be likely to influence a hiring decision.

  44. Lab Boss*

    How hard should I push on something as a matter of principle?

    My company has experienced huge growth over the last 10 years, with the staff growing to several times the size it was when I started. My own department has exploded to 6 times its original size and gone from a small staffing backwater to a major player in getting our products on the market. I’ve been dragged along for the ride, getting multiple promotions faster than I would normally have expected just because they kept needing experienced people to take on more work. I’ve occasionally done some minor salary negotiations, but not much (probably less than I should).

    There’s been an ongoing effort to fight our reputation as paying poorly, including recently implementing more consistent job descriptions and salary bands. I knew I was in line for another promotion but was shocked to realize that 1) I had already been doing most of the higher job’s duties for nearly 2 years, and 2) the company “just can’t give raises bigger than 15%” and planned to promote me but make my salary lower than the bottom of the range. Some intense negotiation resulted and I just got offered a 30% raise- slightly less than my very ambitious request, but above my actual target number.

    Here’s the rub: They want to give me half of the raise now and the rest in 6 months, and they won’t put it in writing that they’ll give me that money in 6 months. I’ve seen this from management before and it’s never been a scam- they always do what they say they intend to, they just say “well, we can’t make any absolute guarantees.” I think it’s a holdover from our small-company past, when any financial hiccup really could disrupt plans, but we’re well past that part now. I’ve got assurances all the way up to the VP and HR head levels that they will do this, they want to retain me, I’m part of their vision for the department, etc.

    So what do I do? I specifically said I wanted any delayed raises in writing, but I also got so many other concessions it feels a little petty when I’ve got every reason to believe they’ll hold up their end of the deal. I could take the promotion now, and if they renege on their promises I’ll have that much more experience to put on my resume when I start my job hunt over that deal-breaker. I could tell them that I want the first stage of the raise now but not the title or the added duties until they give me the rest of it- how big a deal should I make this?

    1. kiki*

      I would keep pushing on getting that delayed raise in writing. I might use their fight to better the reputation around pay. I would say something like, “I’ve been here long enough that I do trust you’ll hold up your end of the deal, but I want to point out that splitting raises and not guaranteeing them in writing is a really unusual practice, especially for a company of our size. Stuff like this contributes to our business’s bad reputation for pay. The least the company can do, when they offer raises in this unusual way, is guarantee it in writing.” I would highlight that this practice is really unusual outside of this company. A lot people who’ve worked for the same company for a while start to see their quirks and weird/bad practices as normal when they’re really not. It helps to reframe this as, “No, y’all are being weird, actually. It’s normal to need this in writing.”

      1. Lab Boss*

        I’ll probably try that to some extent, although there’s some details I omitted for length that suggest it’s a firm no at this point. Totally agree with your point though! I’m definitely more inclined to be a “keep your head down and just do the job” person, and totally blame AAM for convincing me to start making noise and throwing my weight around to push back at dumb holdover practices.

        1. kiki*

          I get that mentality and it can be real asset, but unfortunately so many companies take advantage of employees with that mindset. Even if they don’t offer the guarantee in writing, it’s worthwhile to pushback so leadership is made aware it’s an issue and hopefully doesn’t do this again.

      2. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I would keep pushing on getting that delayed raise in writing.

        Having it in writing won’t prevent them from reneging, but it will sure make it harder to blow off and claim “misunderstanding” or the like. I agree with this advice 112½%.

      3. Glomarization, Esq.*

        Fewer words. “This is a lot of money, and 6 months is a long time. Let’s put our big boy pants on and put it in writing so that we’re on the same page today, and we’ll still be on the same page in 6 months’ time.”

        1. AnonyMouse*

          If you try this, just be aware you may go from a 30% raise in six months to a 100% pay cut, effective immediately.

    2. Joielle*

      Are any of those assurances in email? I’d count that as “in writing” if so (and save them in your personal files). If not, I’d write your own email “recapping our discussion about my raise” and send it to your boss, the VP, HR head, and anyone else who was involved in the negotiations. People can respond to the email if they object to your characterization of the discussion. And then at least there will be SOMETHING you can point to in writing, if they do fail to hold up their end of the deal.

      I don’t know that there’s a way to make the agreement legally enforceable (sounds like they aren’t willing to do an employment contract or anything more official) but at least nobody would be able to say they never said they would do that.

      1. Lab Boss*

        That’s a very good point. I can probably get the friendliest VP involved to at least confirm that it’s “the plan” in an e-mail. I genuinely think that this is purely a case of them being skittish about locking themselves into a contract, for no real good reason, rather than any chance they actually plan on yanking the second half of the raise.

    3. Beth*

      If it ain’t in writing, it doesn’t exist. They owed you that higher salary already — why let them have you at a discount rate for another six months?

      1. Lab Boss*

        In my case there’s enough reasons to stay, and they’re so adamant that it’s “impossible” to do it all at once, that it’s a case of picking my battles and letting them do it half and half. Not ideal, I know, but it is what it is.

      2. Lab Boss*

        Also to add: another one of their very “old school” mindsets is that “you should do most of the duties of the higher job for a while to prove you’re good at them, THEN you get the promotion and the raise.” I’ve pushed back on that as hard as I can and been stonewalled. I’m doing an end around and negotiated a salary based on my ~2 years experience with all the duties of the job, rather than the very bottom-end starting salary for the new job they wanted to give me. Sort of a reverse claw-back, in a way.

    4. Not A Manager*

      Can you put it in writing yourself? Send an email accepting the new position with x duties at y (total) rate, but starting at y-15% for the first 6 months. Or, x duties at q rate for 6 months with a raise at that time to q+15%.

  45. BBBB*

    Got myself a job interview for a contracting company (working at the same job site, just switching from a full time employee to a contractor). I pulled up a copy of the contract and wrote down the pertinent details, such as the expectations for what tasks the contractor would accomplish. When I got the interview, they ask me to describe what I thought the position involved. I paraphrased the list of tasks I copied from their own contract. I got the job.

    1. Emm*

      Congrats!

      In college, I got the really useful advice to study for a subject like I would be teaching it to someone else, because that requires a more in-depth understanding than just what can be read on the surface. And I’ve found that advice also applies to job searches, especially when they ask this question in an interview! It also helped me to get a better understanding of what the day-to-day of a job might look like.

    3. Purple Cat*

      Solid advice. The more you can show you understand the job, the better.

      I’m curious why being a contractor is better than being a full-time employee? Usually the benefits are better as an FTE.

  46. NoSugar*

    I am currently halfway through my pregnancy and have begun discussing my leave options with my HR rep. There is a very tiny possibility I will not return to work following my leave (which would be dependent on my husband accepting a new position), and so I have scoured company docs to try and find any info about having to repay the company for healthcare or paid leave if you don’t return, but I have found nothing. I want to ask our HR rep if there is any financial penalty to doing so, but my husband thinks it’s a horrible idea to out myself as potentially considering quitting after having a baby. I personally don’t think it’s that big of a deal, but wanted to see if others agree?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I would be really leery of doing so. I know my pregnant coworker is already dealing with people trying to pass over her for projects because “what if she doesn’t come back from leave” which is really nasty after she worked for years to climb the ladder into this role. Even if they all wouldn’t do that deliberately there’s still unconscious bias too. You could try asking for the policies on maternity leave in writing – say your husband wanted to see them too or something. If there’s fine print about repaying it should be in there.

    2. beach read*

      If you haven’t already done so, you might want to print off a copy of all pertinent docs to have on hand just in case. If you wind up not returning, you’ll have the info.

    3. ManicPixieNightmareGirl*

      It’s a terrible idea and could put your job at risk. If you’re in the US, it’s highly unlikely that you can be made to repay leave. Leave is a part of your compensation.

      1. Clisby*

        The only thing I can think of where someone might have to repay leave would be if they were advanced leave they hadn’t actually accrued, and then quit before making up the accrual.

      2. fhqwhgads*

        If you’re in a state that doesn’t require paid family leave, you can be made to pay back paid family leave if you decide not to come back after. It’s a shit policy but it happens. That said, whatever handbook/internal document exists that describes the policy in the first place should say that if that’s the case. Not that it’s binding or anything but it’d be bizarre to have a repayment policy and not put it there – such a policy is usually intended to be a deterrent. Even companies that have this kind of clawback often don’t actually enforce it.

        That said it is absolutely a horrible idea to ask for confirmation.

  47. lost*

    I’m looking for advice on getting my property from a business whose owner has passed away.
    I bought an engine from a private owner. It is currently in a shop (it was going to have a professional examination). I paid the private owner. Now we have discovered that the shop owner has passed away. I sent a letter to the shop address, and his previous home address, trying to find out who is handling the estate, but I haven’t received an answer. The shop is in a different state from me, I can’t just go there a lot and see if anyone ever comes by. Is there any organization/agency that could help recover property?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Have you tried looking up the obituary for the deceased? That might give you additional contact information or some idea of it. I would be really careful not to end up emailing a direct relative about your property though. Aim for the lawyers who handled the will etc, maybe ask the funeral home if they know the law firm handling the estate. DO NOT email a dead person’s kid asking for it. That should be common sense but that one graveyard letter on this site makes me feel like I need to restate it!

    2. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

      This is where a Facebook local marketplace group is useful, at least in my small nosy town. Somebody generally knows someone with information

    3. pancakes*

      Check to see whether the state where they died has an online directory where you can look up who is the executor of the estate.

    4. WellRed*

      When my brother a mechanic with his own small shop passed, we would have been happy to connect people with their property, especially since everything needed to go somewhere. Though it helps if you live in the community and know people all is not lost.

    5. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Contact the court in the county where the person lived. They can give you basic instructions on how to file a claim against the estate. If you only try to contact the executor or relatives or other people involved in the business, you may never get an answer. Go to the court to preserve your claim. There may be a deadline, so move quickly.

      If the property is worth more than a few thousand dollars, it may be well worth your while to hire a lawyer to assist. Use search terms: StateName lawyer referral, and call the number. Based on what you’ve written here, this sounds like it should be a straightforward matter for any lawyer.

      1. Clisby*

        Yes, at least in the US these often are probate courts. There could be other names, though.

  48. (Re)New Again*

    I’m a little late to the party today, but I’m just getting back into the professional working world after some time away, and feeling a little insecure. Aside from Ask A Manager (love the site, love Alison), could anyone recommend a source like a book or text that outlines modern workplace norms and etiquette?

    I am afraid that I will be so out of practice that I’ll end up treating my colleagues like friends instead of colleagues. Thank you all.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I don’t have any book recs, but a good rule of thumb is to stick with general small talk with coworkers:

      -weather
      -traffic
      -books/TV shows/movies
      – general weekend plans

      As you get to know your coworkers better, follow their lead in terms of topics, depth and length of discussion, tone, etc. I think the colleague level of friendliness will come back to you once you’re back in the workplace!

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I don’t have a link but I do have a lot of sympathy! It varies a lot among offices too.

      Friends vs Coworkers:
      -No controversy, No extremes, Minimal personal life
      For controversy, avoid anything that would start a fight or have strong opinions on, ie politics, religion, etc. If it does come up don’t be polarizing (“All people who voted X are demons!” vs “Oh I didn’t agree with that candidate’s policies”). For extremes, avoid anything super sad, workplace is not the best place to bring up that shooting at the hospital last night. People at work don’t want to start crying etc. That can go the other direction too, save the super gushing “I can’t believe how wonderful my new partner is” for your friends. At work its more “I had a nice first date last night and I’m looking forward to seeing them again” and less “OMG IT WAS AMAZING”. Which brings to point 3, minimize personal life. Coworkers do not want to know all the dirty details of your fight with your spouse, your intimate life, your kids bowel movement journey, etc. “George’s potty training has been a struggle” is the max detail you should share, if that. Final thought – also check your language a lot more with coworkers than friends. Swearing is okay in some offices but I’d avoid it if at all possible until you really have the lay of the land.

      1. Lady Danbury*

        I wouldn’t even talk about first dates at work. The last thing you want is for your coworkers to have a front seat to your dating life, especially if most of them are coupled. As someone who had been the only or one of the few singletons in the past, I’ve noticed that people tend to project a lot onto your dating life based on their own situation/preferences/judgments/etc. and you don’t want to open the door for your dating life to become watercooler conversation. If you want to share about an activity, I’d just say I went to dinner at the new restaurant or a gallery opening, without saying it was a date. If/when it becomes a pretty steady thing, then I’d feel more comfortable sharing.

  49. Caro*

    Phone charger was stolen from my work desk at some point overnight. I’m pretty angry and feel violated at the moment because someone stole a bottle of painkillers from my desk drawers a few months ago. I could probably request a new set of drawers with a working lot, but I spent so much time and effort cleaning up my current set that I don’t want to have to do it all over again should the “new” one be as gross as the ones I started out with…. Just wanted to commiserate here I guess :( Has anyone’s HR ever caught a petty thief btw?

    1. Lab Boss*

      Sympathy. We had a petty thief taking headphones and chargers, and HR’s response was to remind us all that the company wasn’t responsible for your personal belongings. It sucks that it falls on you but you can consider getting a small lockbox, they’re not that expensive- if these are just opportunistic thefts nobody’s going to take the time to pick that lock or steal the whole box to break it open somewhere.

    2. Raboot*

      I don’t think there’s anything to be done other than get locking drawers. Certainly nothing that takes less effort than cleaning new drawers. Not sure what HR could do honestly.

    3. Not a cat*

      I had cash stolen from my wallet, which was in my non-lockable desk drawer. I suspected someone in particular. I put a note in my wallet, addressed to the person telling them not to steal. The person left mid-day (without formally quitting) and never came back. I told HR after the note incident and they just shoulder shrugged.

    4. Self Evaluation Anxiety*

      I haven’t had any of my stuff stolen, but my coworkers have had things stolen overnight (over-the-counter medications, snacks, knickknacks, etc.).

      I keep most of my personal things the a lock-able locker that’s next to my desk. Anything I leave out is only cheap/easily replaced stuff.

      HR hasn’t caught anyone.

  50. Art3mis*

    I started a new job six weeks ago and it’s not going well. It’s fully remote, which is fine, my previous job was fully remote too. There’s been very little communication about expectations, goals, company/department organization, bonus structure, and there’s been no training plan at all.
    Part of the problem is that my manager changed almost immediately. My first day I met with my then manager for about 15 minutes after orientation and she told me she was changing roles and the new manager hadn’t yet been identified. The new manager was announced the following week and started as my manager the Monday after (so the Monday of my third week). Other than showing me how to clock in and out in the time card system and assigning me some online training classes, I didn’t have any other interaction with old manager. Not once did she or anyone else check in on me to ask how things were going, how I was liking the job, did I need anything, etc. I got a survey from HR after my first week, but at that point, it’s hard to really say because things are still super new.
    I had my first 1/1 with New Manager last week and told him that I wasn’t sure things were going to work out and why. He apologized and said that I kind of fell through the cracks because of the transition and everything. But, nothing has changed and he didn’t say what he was going to change either.
    I’ve really only had one coworker training me and it’s in addition to his regular work, so he doesn’t always have time. He’s also been on PTO and didn’t leave me anything to do while he was gone. I didn’t know he was going to be out so I didn’t know to ask either.
    I started applying elsewhere about three weeks ago. I’ve only had one response and that was to the very first application I put in and the day after I applied and I’ve heard nothing since. Going back to my old job is not an option, my old boss left herself not long after I did and things are just imploding over there.
    I don’t know what I’m looking for here. Is this normal? With the exception of my last role, which is a whole other post, I’ve mostly been in jobs that had some kind of formalized training. I’m not really used to being flat out ignored as a new hire. Am I wrong to start looking already? From my point of view they have a 90 day probationary period, which they clearly pointed out when I started, and if I was slacking this much, they would cite that to fire me without a second thought, so I don’t see why I should give them any lee way I know I wouldn’t be given.

    1. Lab Boss*

      It sounds like your new boss acknowledged you got overlooked but didn’t do anything about it- maybe he doesn’t care, maybe he’s still just swamped and forgetting you, maybe he assumed that you had gotten off to a rocky start but that you’d managed to get up to speed and no further action was needed. Ideally he’d have followed up more, but have you been specific about what you wish he would do for you/what gaps you think you have in your onboarding? If he’s new to management and in over his head, you might need to spell out what you want to happen rather than just flagging the problem and waiting for him to take action.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yes, I second all of this. Some ideas of specifics to ask for:

        – more frequent one-on-ones (weekly might be good because you and your manager are both new, and you don’t want to be forgotten about again)
        – are there other coworkers who can train you in addition to the one coworker, so you can get up-to-speed faster and you aren’t dependent on one person’s availability?

        Because you’re in a probationary period, I think the best course of action is to apply for jobs AND try your best to make this current job work out.

  51. emmers*

    Has anyone every had a come to Jesus meeting with their grand boss and substation changes were made? A coworker of mine finally spilled the beans to our managers manager about how things have been since our manager moved 4 states over to remotely manage our team, a team that is local and onsite 75% of the time because our main work product is coordinating and facilitating in person hands on learning events. And now my grandboss wants to meet with me off campus for a heart to heart and I’m unclear about how straightforward I should be with her. I started this position right as the world was shutting down and I don’t have a great grasp on her other than the fact that she prefers fluff over substance on occasion and that she is very hands off. I feel like it’s a real gamble, but my coworker has already been like yep this is a hot mess and I want to support them, as they are threating to quit if things don’t change.

    1. Lab Boss*

      I’ve had that kind of meeting, but both times it’s been for a job I’d had for a long time and with an upper manager I knew well and knew they really did want the brutal unvarnished truth. You’ve got some red flags about that approach, it sounds like. In your shoes, I would consider focusing on being extremely factual and focusing on provable impacts on your work. “It’s bad that Manager is so hands off and isn’t available late in the day so we’re stuck sitting and doing nothing” might be true but might be TOO real, compared to “Here are a list of times that projects had to wait 2 or more days while we waited on Manager to reply to an e-mail about it.”

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      I had that meeting with a boss (actually as a group with other coworkers who were upset), and things did change for the better, and I stayed at that workplace for several more years. One of my biggest takeaways was that problems that seemed obvious to me–which I assumed the boss was aware of ignoring–she actually was totally oblivious to. She was upset by the conversation, but she also thanked us for speaking up.

      Caveat: I had worked for that boss for a two years already when I had that conversation and I knew that she was not a vindictive person. I went into the conversation with zero concern that she would retaliate in any way. I know that does not apply to all bosses, so I wouldn’t advise anyone to do this without being similarly sure of their relationship and their position.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      It sounds like the grandboss is trying to confirm your coworker’s version of things, possibly to get ready to take action, so to me that’s a big opportunity to be up front about the problems. She may be hands off generally but if she suspects (or has been told) she’ll lose staff over this, she may be willing to do something about it.

      I agree with the advice to keep it simple and direct about the work impacts (e.g. manager can’t observe events or provide feedback, hasn’t been available to answer questions, can’t provide the necessary on-site support because they’re remote). The fluff part can be how much you enjoy the job (if that’s true), which doesn’t soften the message about your manager but does signal that you’re wanting to stay and see things improve.

  52. Goose*

    It’s annual review time! My boss rightly pointed out that I can get too independent and need to work on advocating for myself when I need help and sharing my accomplishments/what I’m doing more regularly. None of this comes naturally to me. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to practice these skills/could point me to a PD opportunity that could help me grow them? Money is available. Thank you!

    1. Garden Pigeons*

      Asking for help and sharing accomplishments are separate skills – different people will find each difficult.

      Some things that might help:

      – for some managers I’ve prepared ‘status notes’ before weekly 1-1s – a single page on the progress of each project, what’s next, where do I need help, etc. This is a chance to both flag where you need help and record successes.
      – if your work is the sort where you can do team talks (either as a separate thing or a short slot in team meetings), that can help to share accomplishments and generally raise your profile?

  53. Echo*

    If you are a person with memory or attention issues (such as ADD/ADHD), what has your manager done that helped improve your experience or success at work? What did they not do but should have?

    1. ADD Mouse*

      I’m still waiting on an official diagnosis, but here goes:
      I’ve asked my manager to stop saying “no hurry, you can do it anytime.” I do realise that sometimes it’s not their job to set a deadline, but my brain needs someone else to have agreed to a “finished” date (even if I set it) or I will never do the thing. Manager is very easygoing in manner so I need to be somewhat proactive about this. (And no, setting internal deadlines that only I know about doesn’t work, because if only I know, my brain won’t take them seriously.)

      I’m best at “please do this right away”, to be honest, but not all tasks are like that.

    2. Emm*

      My manager tends to call me in for a meeting about one thing, and then talk about eight other things for an hour while I sit in a cloud of doom, knowing I’ll forget everything she said as soon as I walk out the door. So I write everything down! When I get back to my desk, I reorganize my notes into an outline or agenda that helps me know what I need to do. It’d be helpful upfront for my manager to send emails with updates or project outlines, but…alas.

    3. Peppa*

      Regular check ins. Like I do better with short check ins on a more frequent basis (better 30 minutes every week than 1 hour every other). I want communication and to make sure we are on the same page. Also, my brain responds to knowing I have a meeting with him like I have an essay due. I kick things into a higher gear when I have to be more accountable.

    4. Minimal Pear*

      -writing down thorough instructions on how to do certain important things–obviously it’s not feasible for every job duty, but for the stuff that’s both vital and complicated it helps a lot
      -giving me instructions and pausing with plenty of time to takes notes, as the physical process of notetaking really helps me remember
      -having me be the one to write SOPs, etc. because writing the instructions for others really helps
      -check-ins every other week and in general lots of back-and-forth communication/keeping up to date
      -consistent deadlines (a number of things I work on are due on certain days every month)

    5. ecnaseener*

      Giving general timeline expectations for tasks with no hard deadlines, so I can treat those as hard deadlines for myself = good.

      Butts in seats mentality = bad. ADHD brains need breaks when they need them, it’s not always predictable.

      Very long meetings = bad.

      1. ADD Mouse*

        Yesss. Presentee-ism is very bad for ADHD. Since we went back to clocking in and out, my focus has gone down because I’m trying not to think about when I need to go for lunch, how long till I need to clock out etc. I don’t think my boss cares so long as I take my breaks as legally required, but the time clock program throws a hissy fit if I don’t take lunch within the period it considers correct, and puts up error messages which I then have to manually adjust or my time worked won’t be correct.

        I have no clue how to raise “I don’t want to clock in and out” as a reasonable adjustment though. Because it doesn’t sound that reasonable even to me. It’s giving me anxiety.

        1. ecnaseener*

          Yeah, that’s tough if you’re hourly so really need to log all your hours.

          I set myself a daily 11:40 reminder to take lunch at 12, that might help take the pressure off to keep thinking about the time?

          1. ADD Mouse*

            I’m actually not hourly in the US sense. I’m in the UK, on a salary and don’t get overtime. But it’s stipulated in my contract that I will work a certain number of hours a week. I actually have no trouble working the hours, but I often get distracted and forget to clock in or out, especially at breaks. I can forget when I’m actually walking towards the terminal with my pass in my hand! And I’d love to be able to take my lunch late if I have a hyperfocus day and I’m in the zone and don’t want to stop (I don’t have to cover for anyone else’s breaks, so it wouldn’t matter in practical terms).

            Heigh ho. I guess I need to talk to my manager.

    6. Junimo the Hutt*

      My manager started giving me metrics to meet each month. I’d been tracking them privately while working under previous manager, who outright asked me “Why would you need that?” But the re-org happened and I moved to my current manager, he asked me to create a tracking document (he was pleased to learn I already had one that just needed a little updating). Now at the end of the month, I send him reports from that document since my work is largely unsupervised. It’s led to some end-of-the-month panic on occasion, but it’s also kept me focused. Also the one-on-one check ins have been a godsend.

    7. Dragonfly7*

      I have been asking for announcements, changes, etc. to be shared in writing for six years because my department has an alarming tendency to only pass along information through word of mouth. This hasn’t improved and is the main reason I am job hunting. If it is in writing, whether in an email, instant message, or my own notes, I can refer back to it later when my memory is faulty.

    8. AnonyMouse*

      ADHDer here. This is unpopular advice but your experience and success will mostly be on what you do for yourself, not what your manager does for you. You can definitely ask your manager to make small changes if they’re doing something that’s really messing you up (ex. asking your manager to email you requests instead of giving verbal instructions as you’re walking out the door for lunch) but for the most part, you’ll need to identify your weak points on your own and just adapt your own workflow to suit you.

  54. Extraordinary Popular Delusions*

    I’ve been WFH since March 2020, and likely will be for some time. My last job was an indescribable nightmare that literally shredded my sanity. I found a new role and was able to get out of the toxic situation, but I’m struggling with having to remain in the same literal environment. The best way I can describe it is if you think about the worst place you ever worked, and you got a new job but are expected to continue to do it at your terrible old office. Obviously, I rearraigned my surroundings and desk setup and have tried to get in the headspace of “new job” but I can’t move past the fact that I’m physically where “old job” happened. Due to the nature of the role, I have to have a secure ethernet cable so I’m literally tied to my current home office. I’m looking for input on recovering from toxic stress and how other people are able to effectively compartmentalize work/home. Thanks!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Can you redecorate? Hang something on the wall behind your screen. Get a new set of coasters and a new coffee mug. New slippers/footrest. Visually and touch can cue your brain that something has changed. Scent can as well, new scented lotion or air freshener? I find rotating my desk every ~3months helps with the stuck in a rut feeling too, in my WFH office just so I am facing a diff wall lol. Longer ethernet cable might open up other rooms too, we have a 300ft one at my old office. Changing laptop background even can help reset. Sound – do you like any white noise generators or video game music while you work? Maybe mix it up a bit. mynoise dot net is great for that.

      1. DisneyChannelThis*

        Also regarding splitting work from home while working from home, have a routine and stick to it! Wake up time, tea on the porch, then change clothes and log into work. Even WFH, have sweat pants that are now “work” only pants. Make that distinction. Post work I change clothes just like I would post work in normal times, shutdown the computer and then go do activities consistently like gym is 6:30 regardless of the work done. If you keep working past work hours you slide into that rut of always working but never productively.

    2. NewJobNewGal*

      I switched to a new WFH job and I saged my office. I bought a sage bundle and burned that whole thing into every corner of my office. For me, that helped with the emotional baggage.
      Then I did the same as you, I rearranged. But I also invested in some items to really personalize the space and make it less office-ey.

      1. Extraordinary Popular Delusions*

        I like this idea, I can see how it would be emotionally cleansing.

    3. Jora Malli*

      When you rearranged your workspace, how big of a change did you make? If you haven’t already, could you repaint the room or add new curtains or wall hangings to make a bigger change to the overall feel of the space? Or maybe change your pre-work morning routine to make your brain start forming new patterns?

      How much would it cost to have an ethernet port installed somewhere else in the house? Maybe someplace near an outdoor space so you could change your surroundings for at least part of the day?

      1. Extraordinary Popular Delusions*

        Trying to form new brain patterns is probably why I’m struggling so badly. I had a brain injury which would have been difficult in the best of times, but it unfortunately coincided with the start of the pandemic and the shift to WFH. I’ve been working with professionals but trying to get my brain back to right is a constant uphill climb, with lots of backsliding.

        I do think repainting the room might help. It’s stressful that my home has turned into a perpetual reminder of some of the most terrible moments in my life.

        1. Jora Malli*

          It’s so hard. I’m sorry this has become such a struggle for you and I hope you’re able to figure out how to love your home and your office again.

    4. Flash Packet*

      You can stay connected via ethernet and still move spaces.

      Wifi is spotty in my home office so I got an ethernet cable to plug into my router. It’s 35 feet long. I could have made it look nice and run it up into the ceiling, across the attic floor, then down back again into my home office, but I’m lazy so I hung it via map tacks and paper clips along the tops of the walls from the living room (where the router is), down the hallway, around a corner, then along my office wall and down to a hook I put in the wall just above my desk.

    5. YetAnotherFed*

      I’m in a similar situation (although I transferred from one side of my agency to the other, and yes they are virtually different countries in terms of how they run things on the current side of the agency, so my stress levels have gone down significantly). What I did was to get a new chair mat and a desk riser, which has changed my workspace a good amount visually and physically. I put my good rocking footrest up as well. I also went through my bookshelves and rearranged their contents, and rearranged/cleared out various craft storage which I also have in the same room. I still want to put up my “I Love Me” wall (all my diplomas, bar admissions, etc.) because some of those have been in the closet since I moved into my house, and clear out a lot more stuff so I have more space to walk around the room, but that was a good start.

    6. Dragonfly7*

      Does New Job provide you with equipment, separate from your personal devices? Is there something you can do to decorate/change the devices themselves, and would that help? New desktop background, Windows theme, laptop skin/cover/stickers, etc?
      During the months I worked from home, the easiest way for me to balance work and personal was simply having different devices devoted to each, whether a desktop and a laptop or multiple laptops, and decorating accordingly. My work desktop background is very colorful and joyful.

    7. Self Employed Employee*

      Maybe no just focus on the office area, but redecorate other areas of your house as well. All of it may be contributing to the struggle. Something like switching out ALL your curtains (or rugs, walls,or blankets) to a totally different color than what you have now.

  55. Email Refresher*

    I had two great job opportunities this week that said they would reach out to schedule another interview shortly (like this week), but I haven’t heard anything yet. I know it has been a short week and people could be on vacation but I can’t stop checking my email! I know I need to leave it alone but can’t seem to actually do that.
    Any ideas on how to try to stop obsessing over this?

    1. irene adler*

      You need a distraction- like a movie, exercise, do something with a friend, etc.

    2. Hello!*

      I’ve been trying to get my mind off work stuff, too–for me, that means going to the movies LOL! Another thing you can try doing is to sign out of your email on your phone. That way, in order to check it, you have to sign back in to your account. Just having the one little extra step might help you cut back how much time you’re spending just refreshing your inbox.
      I’m personally a big proponent of only checking email once an hour or so. You could set a timer, and only check when it goes off. The waiting always sucks!

    3. Lab Boss*

      If you’ve got any physical materials related to the companies or your interviews sitting around, put them in a folder and put it in a drawer. Close the company web sites you’ve left open on your phone. Put your interview dressy clothes back in the closet from where you stashed them on the back of a chair. OK, you may not be as chaotic as me, but the point stands- try to not be sitting in the midst of a sea of reminders of the thing you’re waiting for.

    4. Self Evaluation Anxiety*

      Could you change the password to your e-mail account to something difficult to remember (write it down though!) so it’s hard to log on? Then only log on once at a specific time each day?

  56. valkyrie with a voluminous vocabulary*

    My small company just made two new hires. Both were from a larger company in the same region, but not any kind of competitor of ours (they sell a product and have an IT department, we provide IT services only). We had arranged for both to start in about 4 weeks so they could wrap things up at their previous jobs, give notice, and maybe take a personal week between jobs. This worked well for us because most of our employees will be at a conference, and the start date was for after everyone was back in the office.

    Both hires reached out to let us know they had given notice and were immediately fired from their current positions. It’s not clear if they are being given any kind of severance from their former employer or were terminated outright. I know we don’t have a legal obligation to bring them on earlier than planned, but should we at least offer? I hate the thought of having put these folks in a financial bind because we offered them a job. We could make bringing them in early work, but the later date works better for us operationally. What do y’all think?

    1. irene adler*

      It would be a kindness to offer. Can’t really lose here.
      If someone is in need, they will take you up on it. And sing your praises about it ever after.
      If someone is not in need, then you go with your original time table. And, they view this as an employer that cares.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Yep, try to bring them in early. Just let them know it will be a little slow/casual until everyone is back from the conference. THey can choose whether that works for them.

    3. Lady Danbury*

      Definitely try to bring them on earlier if possible. Hopefully there are training materials, SOPs, etc that they can review while the team is out of the office.

  57. Self Evaluation Anxiety*

    Posters who are managers, what are your expectations for your employees’ annual self performance reviews?

    I’ve only done a self performance review once, years ago. Writing about myself is difficult. I remember spending hours looking at advice online at home and putting a lot of time into writing it at work. (My manager copy/pasted it for her evaluation of me, so I guess it was well done?) I want to make sure I’m not investing too much time into it at my current job.

    So what do managers expect? Do I need to write long answers for the open response sections, or will two or three sentences do? How many negative things do I have to try to come up with?

    Are the ratings on the “rate yourself on a scale of 1-5” questions going to be scrutinized? Each of the several scale questions for my company covers a list of 10 things, which makes it awkward to give a rating. I don’t know if it’s okay to just give myself a 3 for all of them. (I feel like I’m a “solid performer” at my job, but don’t know what my manager thinks since she doesn’t give feedback.)

    Just trying to figure out how to do this without agonizing over it and overthinking it.

    1. Lab Boss*

      I’ve been through 5 cycles of looking at self-evals, so here’s some thoughts. Your mileage may vary based on how your company handles the eval process, of course.

      First, ask your manager about how they interpret the scale. Do they really mean that if you’re a steady, satisfactory performer who has no problems but isn’t a rock star, you’re a 3 out of 5? Or do they think of “standard” as a 4 with 3 implying you need improvement? It shouldn’t be weird to at least ask how they want you rated.

      Self-awareness is key. If you give yourself all the same number, whether that’s 3 or 5, it’s going to look like you just plopped some numbers down. There’s almost certainly something you excel at and something you aren’t the best at. Likewise, I care more about the content of your answers than the length. Show me that you understand your job, show me that you understand your value in the role- what you’re best at and why that’s important, what you’re worst at and why/how you might improve there. There’s no magic number of “bad things” but you should at least be identifying SOMETHING that you want to improve. If you’ve made any noteworthy errors or had to get feedback about problems, I’d expect to see those addressed (even if it’s just a “hey this was a one time thing because XYZ, I’ve never made that mistake again”).

      If there’s room to comment on your numerical ratings, do that- I care way more about hearing your opinion of your skill level at a task, than I do about whether you called yourself a 3 or a 4. Does your company’s process include having a sit-down with your boss to talk through ratings? At mine, before the review is finalized and submitted, the manager and employee sit down and walk through it with a focus on any ratings that didn’t match between the self-eval and manager eval. If your company doesn’t do this, ask your manager if it can be done, with an emphasis on wanting to understand how they’re rating you and what they want to see in the future.

    2. A Penguin!*

      I also hate self assessments and have a hard time writing about myself. It’s sometimes possible for me to trick myself into writing about myself as if I were my manager (got easier once I became a manager of other people).

      I like Lab Boss’ suggestion of asking how to interpret the scale. Some places put interpretation guidance right into the form; most don’t. Usually it’s whether 3 or 4 is the ‘default’ for a good employee is the variance. You could expand this into asking for guidance on what types of things they’d like to see in the free-response sections, too.

      Don’t inflate (or deflate) your ratings. There’s no value in making them match what you think your manager’s answers are, if that’s even possible. If they’re significantly different, that can be a jumping off point for a discussion as to why.

      One is the minimum number of negatives, but I wouldn’t shy away from putting as many as easily come to mind if there are more. It’s also the minimum number of responses to any other open-response question.

      I don’t want long answers when I review these; I like bullets. Your manager may be different – you can ask what they prefer.

      The short answer is ‘just do it’. Don’t try to figure out what the ‘right’ answers are. They’re not trick questions.

      caveat: this all presumes a decent company/manager. The ‘doesn’t give feedback’ info about your manager does call this assumption into a certain amount of question. If you DON’T have a decent manager, your only real source of useful input into the self assessment would be coworkers you trust.

    3. LNLN*

      My company did annual performance reviews and I had to do a self-assessment as part of it. My job had specific metrics and my company had specific values that provided structure for the evaluation. I spent a fair amount of time working on my self-assessment, as I thought it was a good chance to show my boss that I understood my job and did it well. I kept an electronic document named (Fixin’ to Ask for a Raise) where I noted during the year any extra projects I took on, copied compliments from clients or coworkers and tracked innovations I made. It made things so much easier when the assessment period came around! Focus on achievements, just as you do in a resume. Good luck!

  58. birdwatcher*

    I’m currently employed but looking at other opportunities out there. I recently had the first interview with a company I’m interested in and was asked back for a 2nd interview with the owner. When asked, I gave the days that work best for me to interview as my current job is in its busy time/meeting heavy. So we set up the date and time, great.

    The morning of the interview, I checked email to find a message from owner saying they had changed the interview date to the other day I had indicated worked for me. Didn’t ask me if that worked for me, just informed me the date and time was different.

    I do happen to be available so I’ll move forward I guess, but I’m feeling peeved that I was informed and not asked if that worked with my schedule. I’m feeling like this is a red flag, but is it? It feels disrespectful of me and my time. I’ve previously had some pretty toxic work environments so doubting myself if I’m being too sensitive because I did say X date tended to be open for me.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      This is not a “withdraw your application and run away” flag, but it is a “pay more attention” flag. Make sure you ask good questions about their culture during the interview and take into account if they make other disrespectful moves during the rest of the process. It could be a one-off, could be a sign of a bad fit.

    2. Purple Cat*

      I’d put this as a yellow flag. It’s definitely brusque and a little bit assuming. It seems like a couple of days have passed between the initial dates and the rescheduling, so it’s not a guarantee that you would still be available. I’d be more concerned if they picked a completely random date and time and dictated things.

  59. In Libraries, Too*

    I’m working on performance reviews and am trying to figure out if this is something to mention. What questions would you ask yourself in this situation?

    The employee frequently expresses frustration over things that I would shrug off as the nature of the job. My concern is that they have unrealistic expectations and are getting frustrated because things don’t work like they expect (e.g. they reach out multiple times to a community partner and receive no response). I don’t know if I should talk about them getting frustrated over things that, in my opinion, shouldn’t even warrant a blink. It’s a tough position – you have to be enthusiastic and keep trying new things, but also realize that much of the job is trying to break through a brick wall with a plastic spoon while the public tells you that it’s pudding, not a brick wall.

    So is it reasonable for them to express frustration or should I have a conversation to dig deeper and see if there are unrealistic expectations?

    More context:

    – Employee 8 months into a new position here and a new specialty for them
    – Most standard, run-of-the-mill positions take people about a year to feel comfortable
    – I was gone for almost all of their 2nd month of work and we’re too small to have backup managers, so they learned their job without any guidance for that month
    – I tried my best in the interview process to talk about the challenges this position would face – working hard on something only to have disappointing outcomes is to be expected
    – I think humans should be allowed to express emotion at work

    1. Gracely*

      Maybe include like one line about “adjusting expectations to better align with the reality of public service”? But if they’re only 8 months in, I wouldn’t include much more than that.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Have you explicitly told them it usually takes about a year to feel comfortable in the role? I appreciated when a manager told me it usually takes people 6 months to feel comfortable when I was 1 month into a new role.

      I would also pair the “takes one year to feel comfortable” with “you’ve been here for eight months, is there anything I can do over the next four months to help you feel comfortable/settled in this role?”

    3. ecnaseener*

      From what you’ve written here, I’m not clear on how much of this is about their behaviors vs their feelings. That’s the dividing line I think you should use: unprofessional behavior (rolling eyes, saying rude things, angry tone) can and should go in the review. Feelings that you’re picking up on, you can informally mention (“I get the sense that you’ve been unhappy with XYZ, but I want to be really clear that they’re part of the job, have you considered whether this is the job you want” etc) but don’t write them down in the review!

      1. Lab Boss*

        I’d even say it’s fine to verbally confirm that they’re not alone in the feelings. “Yes, the Locke group can take forever to respond to e-mails and I get frustrated waiting for them too- but you can’t e-mail them 3 times in 2 days, waiting on them is just something we have to deal with.”

      2. In Libraries, Too*

        I definitely wouldn’t write anything down – it would be a conversation.

        I don’t want to go into details here, but not only is the position itself challenging, but they entered it at a particularly challenging time for our library and also, I’ve never managed a position like this, so I’m learning, too. I’m struggling to see what would warrant changing the conversation from “you’ve said you’re frustrated by things that seem normal to me, what support do you need” to “you’ve said you’re frustrated by very normal parts of the job, is this the right position for you”. I’ve let warning signs go in past employees because I rationalized it away by saying they were new; I don’t know if that’s more humane or if it’s better to point out concerns early. Sheesh, people managing is hard when you want to do right by people!

        1. Lab Boss*

          I would say that asking “is this the right position for you” carries a whiff of “I’m considering firing you over this,” which might be true in the long run but it doesn’t sound like you’re there yet. It’s 100% OK to have a sit down and ask them “are you asking for support or for something to change? or are you just frustrated and venting about it?” Based on what they say you can then tailor the conversation to helping them understand what’s normal for the job, that it’s OK to be frustrated but that you need them to cut down on the complaining, or whatever it is they need to understand. THEN if the behavior doesn’t change you can start moving more into asking them to consider whether the job is a good fit.

          1. ecnaseener*

            Yes, my phrasing was meant as shorthand for the excellent scripts Alison has provided for this type of conversation!

    4. Jora Malli*

      As a fellow librarian, I do want to point out that a lot of things that are normal in our profession, are, in fact, incredibly frustrating. Your example of community partnerships made me laugh out loud, because community partnerships can be one of the most frustrating elements of the job and staff don’t really have any control over when the partners will respond or if they’ll do what they agreed to do. Yes, that’s a normal way for library community partnerships to work, but it’s also super frustrating.

      That’s a really important conversation to have with people new to library employment. I would probably want to have a conversation with this person and explain that what they’re experiencing is pretty typical for a lot of library workers, and that we all get frustrated by it sometimes, but we have to find a healthy way to deal with that frustration so it doesn’t spill out onto our coworkers/customers/community partners.

    5. Flash Packet*

      Have you said anything in the moment that both acknowledges their frustration and indicates that it’s just a part of the job?

      “Community Partner ghosted you, too, huh? They’ll do that sometimes. It’s aggravating as all get-out but after the third or fourth time they do it, you just come to expect it and move on.”

  60. Pivot Table*

    What’s a diplomatic way to answer the interview question, “why are you looking to leave?” when the honest response is similar to “we were acquired over a year ago and they laid-off off all the top management from our legacy company (the better one) and kept all the clueless nincompoops in management from the lower tier company, who are putting dollars behind the lower quality brands and focusing less on the higher performing brands. Also my manager won’t work with me on how to put together a promotion plan, and yet I’m getting all the extra work and more responsibility added on top of my current job, but without a promotion”?

    1. irene adler*

      Frame it as something you are going towards -as in the new position you are interviewing for-and not as something you are trying to get away from (overwork/bad management situation).
      You might include something about there are no opportunities for promotion available. But don’t include the ugly behind that.

    2. In Libraries, Too*

      What do you want in a new job that isn’t possible in your current one? A history of company stability? Clear, standardized, widely published growth paths? A position that focuses on one or two specialties, not fifteen? To be a project supervisor, not a people supervisor? To be a manager, not a team lead? A shorter commute?

      The answer to what you want may help you respond in a way that shows engagement with the prospective position instead of frustration with the current one.

    3. Purple Cat*

      “Company X was acquired a year ago and I’m no longer as engaged with the strategy of Company Y, I’m really excited about YOUR company because blah, blah, blah.”
      I wouldn’t dwell on the management issues too much, but a clear change in strategy is neutral enough to be a good answer. But the important thing is what you’re focused on for the specific role and how the new company will provide that (and more important what you will give new company).

    4. LadyByTheLake*

      Use this if the company you are interviewing with has the kind of higher performing brands you are looking for: “After an acquisition, the new owners are focusing the business more on budget brands, and I really enjoy working on the kind of high quality brands that Your Company offers, such as XYZ.” If the issue is promotion say “I was interested in this position since it would enable me to use the skills I have developed doing ABC at a higher level.”

    5. AnonyMouse*

      “The company recently went through a full reorg and my position is no longer in line with what I’m looking to focus on.”

  61. Little Beans*

    How do I make working in office feel worthwhile for my team? Our leadership has decided that everyone has to be in person 3 days per week. We’ve discussed it extensively, the decision is made and it’s not going to change. The problem is our space – first, my unit is in a separate building from the rest of our group, so we never see them unless we make a special trip. The other issue is that we only have 4 work spaces for 6 people, so we are never all in person on the same day, which means most of our meetings are still on Zoom. I would say that on average, each of us has maybe 2-3 hours of meetings per week that actually happen in person. Our workspaces have connecting doors, but we close them when we’re on Zoom or in a meeting so that the noise doesn’t disturb others. The result is that we’re often going into the office and barely even interacting with each other except to say good morning and goodbye. I can’t change the 3 days per week rule, and I can’t get us more space – any other suggestions for making it feel more worthwhile? Do I suggest coffee breaks for the 3-4 of us who are there any given day? Push people to make an effort to open doors more often, when possible?

    1. Alice*

      TBH that sounds like a tall order…. I like the coffee breaks idea, if you are open to doing them outside if people prefer for COVID safety. Pushing people to open doors more often — TBH that would grate on me, but YMMV.
      Since your team is never there all together, maybe encouraging people to build in time on their in-office days to spend on relationship-building? That’s the coffee break thing, I guess, but being explicit about “yes this is a valuable use of your time” and also telling people explicitly if you are ok with that being one-on-one as well as everyone-who-is-there-today-all-together.
      This next paragraph isn’t about your actual question, how to make it feel worthwhile, but maybe you will be interested anyway?
      I am in a position similar to your reports — leadership at a high level has decided everyone has to be in person 3 days per week. We don’t have the hot-desking challenge yet, but it is the case, similar to you, that there are no times when everyone is here. I’ll be honest: when leadership introduced this policy by saying “it’s more equitable” and “people who really care about our mission are eager to work on site,” I was furious. I felt (and I still feel) like leadership was weaponizing two things I really care about — DEI and our mission. I don’t think our workplace is safe, and so I didn’t want to come in, and I didn’t appreciate the implication that people who don’t want to come in in person are lazy or uncommitted.
      Then some middle managers addressed the issue, saying “look, this is the rule. It’s not going to change” but without the value judgements or implied criticism of people who don’t like it. They aren’t going as far as saying “yeah, it’s a stupid rule” but they are taking out the hurt feelings I was getting from the leadership messages. I don’t know what the politics are like in your organization but maybe keep in mind that going into too much detail about stated (maybe specious) justifications for the policy might make things worse.
      OK, back to your actual question — is there anything that your reports can do that is physical but asynchronous? Leaving a nice note or a joke on a postit for the next person to use the workspace, maybe. Or if you are doing a brainstorming or teambuilding exercise, leave it up all week on the whiteboard for people to add to it in their own time.
      Good luck

      1. Alice*

        Can you get increased commuting benefits for your team? A stipend for bike repairs, for example. That’s reducing the cost rather than increasing the benefit but it still makes the cost:benefit ratio a little better.

        1. Little Beans*

          I can’t – we’re one little unit in a massive organization. They do provide commuter benefits to everyone but I can’t get different/better benefits just for my team.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Don’t ask us, ask YOUR manager! If the company has set up this difficult framework, it’s on the senior managers to figure out retention techniques. (I’m sure you’re going to lose staff over this, BTW.)

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        And ask your employees what they would find attractive as options.

        But this sounds like the decision-makers lack basic math & planning skills.

        1. Little Beans*

          To be honest, the decision was made several levels above us, and I think they literally don’t even know what space we have or don’t have. My direct boss totally understands why this is hard, and has tried to be supportive but she doesn’t have the ability to change it either.

    3. ecnaseener*

      I think you’re fighting a losing battle. Free food would be nice as often as you can swing it, but it’s not going to make it feel worthwhile to go sit in an office alone just to take zoom meetings.

    4. Unkempt Flatware*

      Well, I’ll give you my perspective. The only thing that makes office work bearable for me now is being able to put in my headphones, keep my head down, and get out of there as soon as possible. The only benefit for me is taking advantage of not having to entertain the pets and getting slightly more sustained work done. If folks are doing the same work they could do at home and have been doing at home, it will be hard to convince them they are going to enjoy themselves. I’d likely resent-drink that coffee alone in my office and keep my door only slightly ajar. Forced or even encouraged socializing or networking would make me resent going in all the more. I would like it if you simply let me do my thing–whatever that thing is to make the day better. Before the pandemic, that was hours of watching netflix on my phone and AAM scrolling while working. Now, at home, that is watering the plants and sitting on the couch.

      1. Little Beans*

        Thanks for this perspective!! I think there is a mix on my team. I know for sure at least 2 of my direct reports have said that thing they DON’T like is coming in and feeling isolated – if they have to come in, they want to feel like there is at least a social benefit to doing so. We do all like each other! But I think there might be at least 1 person who is more like you, so I’m trying to figure out how we make this bearable for everyone…

    5. DisneyChannelThis*

      To offer a counterpoint to the others: My own offices return, we’ve discovered we really like water cooler talk. The randomness of who you run into and the resulting conversations, I learned about the difference between duck and chicken eggs today. There’s a whiteboard in there we never used but now everyone leaves doodles and messages on it, and Monday it gets wiped down. We also really enjoy celebrating *everything* together again. Birthdays, weddings, new babies, promotions, random holidays, religious holidays, etc. I used to groan at those but after 2 years WFH there is something really enjoyable about seeing new baby pics in person and eating donuts together again and taping a balloon to someones door. Office plants is another, we’ve got 5 or 6 that have been propagated and coworkers shared out and now the windowsills are little gardens of plant families. Our admin turned the reception wall into a fill in the color poster, people do a bit on their days in the office. Neat to see it expand.

      For your specific situation, can you suggest some in person meetings where the odd man out WFH just skips? or setup a laptop for them to zoom in and recognize that hybrid meetings often have issues so they may not be able to hear or contribute much. Can you aim to have 1-2x a week where you all eat lunch outside or spaced out inside together? Are there any shared interests (sports brackets? Plants?) that you can create in office things for? A meet the pets you always saw on zoom in person day? Camaraderie is the biggest thing missing in WFH vs regular office. Some people don’t miss it. Many people do.

      1. Joielle*

        Yeah, I think this comment section is skewed towards people who have an abnormally strong hatred of any amount of socializing at the office. My office is back in person a couple days a week and for the most part people are happy with it for many of the reasons you mentioned. It’s just… pleasant to say hi to people in person again and chat over a donut or make a joke about the copier or whatever. We’ve started doing more in-person trainings, which is nice. People are a lot more willing to raise their hand and ask questions or give input in an in-person meeting than on Zoom. Maybe you could set up some lunch and learns? I work for the government so we all have to bring our own food when we do this, but it would be nice to provide lunch if that’s an option for your department.

        1. ecnaseener*

          I haven’t seen anyone say they hate socializing in the office. People are not optimistic about this particular scenario because the employees will be sitting in offices alone, having zoom meetings, not collaborating in person. People hate paying to commute for little benefit.

        2. Little Beans*

          Hmm, so I’m thinking that maybe the problem is that we literally don’t have a water cooler. Or a kitchen/social area. Because we’re separate from the rest of our organization, we just have 3 offices in a hallway. There’s no space where someone would be hanging out, not working, and look like they might be open to a social conversation, so you have to make an effort to go into someone’s workspace to say hi and risk potentially interrupting whatever they’re working on.

    6. Just another queer reader*

      This sounds like a pretty horrible setup, tbh. I’ve got to imagine that your employees are frustrated.

      I know you said that nothing can change, but: could you find a way to get two more desks? A conference room that you can all use sometimes?

      If I understand your work correctly, it sounds like it would be nice to do some meetings NOT on zoom in a closed room. So if you can rearrange anything to make that happen, seems like it’d be nice.

      (Some commenters hate social time at work; I happen to love it, as long as I like my coworkers.)

      Also consider: plants in the office, free lunch/ snacks/ drinks, commuter benefits (free parking/ bus pass/ transportation stipend), plentiful and luxurious office supplies.

      But I’ll reiterate that your working setup sounds like hell right now.

    7. Anony*

      I don’t know your field so this could be impossible, but do you really need all 6 people on every meeting? Can you specifically organize work in person schedules so that the ones who are in office have meetings, like on projects where the other two people aren’t involved? Are there other collaborative tasks that could be scheduled for the in person days? For example, I really prefer work in early stages of projects with brainstorming, whiteboarding, etc. to be in person. I also do appreciate coffee breaks and the social side of in person work (agree that AAM commentariat skews toward disliking any social interaction). I would just make them optional in case someone has a heavy workload or just doesn’t want to participate.

      1. Little Beans*

        We just have one weekly meeting that is all 6 of us on Zoom. Most of our meetings are actually with other people, not each other. Most people are still choosing Zoom though because almost everyone is on a hybrid schedule and when you’re scheduling for more than a couple of people, it’s a lot easier to just say it’s on Zoom rather than try to figure out everyone’s schedules and find a room, etc. We also do external-facing meetings and let our partners choose in-person or online, but like 75% choose online.

    8. Flash Packet*

      Would the Higher Ups actually know if some or all of your team weren’t coming in for all three days?

      My company’s new (as of March 1 this year) hybrid rule is 3 days in the office, 2 days WFH. My VP was like, “Meh. Let’s make it 2 days.” And my manager is like, “Flash, I know you’re concerned about COVID and your home situation is such that coming in is a huge burden, so do you think you could do one day a week most of the time?”

      And even though we’re in the same building as the C-Suite — one floor down and connected by an open staircase / atrium — they have no idea how many days each of us is really in the office.

      1. Little Beans*

        No, they definitely would not know. I do often let my staff work from home an extra day when they ask, or if it’s been a really busy week, or if I know a lot of people are on vacation that day anyway. I’d say it ends up being at least once or twice a month. But I’m not comfortable explicitly saying that they don’t have to follow the company policy. There’s already been a lot of pushback and the higher-ups have reiterated many times that this is expected, so at this point, it would feel openly insubordinate for me to tell my team they don’t have to do it.

  62. KoiFeeder*

    Question for folks with chronic fatigue: how do you balance chronic fatigue and work? What marks the line between “this is my normal everyday fatigue” and “I cannot function like this” when most of the time I get about four hours in and start trying to pass out? And, uh, any tips for someone who keeps trying to pass out after four hours of filing papers…

    1. kicking_k*

      Unfortunately my OH found it impossible to balance, and ended up on disability. I know this isn’t a very optimistic outcome, and it’s certainly not the only possible one.

    2. Minimal Pear*

      Remote work. I’m working pantsless on the couch right now. Also, part time, but I recognize it’s a privilege that I can afford to work only part time.
      For filing, I’ve found it helpful to do as much of it while sitting down as possible–get a wheelie stool with an adjustable height. I did still usually have to stand for the top drawers and crouch for the bottom, but all the middle ones I could reach from the stool. I tried to organize the stuff I was filing so I did one height level at a time, because I found that the bobbing up and down really fatigued me. (That’s partially because of the specific condition that causes my fatigue, but I suspect it’s applicable to some degree for other people.)
      Oh, and taking little breaks if that’s possible.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        I would love remote work, but I have been unable to find it. I mean, I’m still looking when I have the spoons to, but I needed a job sooner than a remote one would take to materialize…

        Wheelie stool! I will keep that in mind and see what can be done.

    3. Snorlax*

      Oh friend, I was coming to the comment section to ask this literal question!! Many sympathies from a fellow fatigue-haver.

    4. Tourniquette*

      I don’t have any good short-term advice, but I can sympathize with your plight. I’m fortunate enough to have gotten a degree in Computer Science right when covid hit, so I was working from home while trying to get a diagnosis and by the time they started asking people to come back to the office, I had a medical diagnosis and dr’s note that I should be able to work from home at least half the time. Although being able to work from home can be a blessing and a curse – there have been times when I fell asleep at the work laptop in the middle of the day and had to pull from sick leave to cover my missed afternoon.
      In general terms, I find being able to pace myself and carefully plan what tasks I do when to best manage my energy has been key. If there’s a meeting in the afternoon that I don’t play a very active part in, it’s not gonna go well. I make sure most important tasks get done first while I’ve got the energy, and I try to do active support tasks (chatting with coworkers about what’s the best approach to take, checking in on the intern, etc.) when fatigue starts to hit because the accountability to someone else can keep me going a bit longer. I’ve also just had to become okay with not being the high-performer I want to be – it’s enough to get the job done, I don’t need to do more than that if it’s going to impact my health.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        The good news is that I don’t have meetings. I basically have the scut work job- I sit in my windowless closet and file papers, shred papers, input data from papers onto various forms and spreadsheets, occasionally send emails asking why someone keeps giving me handwritten forms in purple ink when they’re supposed to be sent as an email pdf; basically the stuff that other folks are too busy to do. Which is great! I love detail-oriented work and this job plays to my strengths, and it’s not an unpaid internship. But having too much fatigue to be able to do this little for more than four hours… kinda sucks, you know? This shouldn’t be as hard for me as it is.

    5. Joielle*

      My spouse has a chronic illness that involves serious fatigue when it flares up, and a very high level job. One thing that helps him is having a lot of flexibility – generally he can sleep in if he needs to, take nap breaks, and spread the work out throughout the day. He usually works some hours on the weekend so he rarely has to do really long stretches of work all at once. I know some people would hate that but it works well for him. (Also we don’t have kids and he doesn’t have a lot of other competing demands on his time – not necessarily possible for everyone.)

      Maybe the biggest thing, though, is building up goodwill when he can and having a reputation as a very strong performer. People are a lot more willing to cut him some slack when he needs it because he’s shown himself to be an asset to the team (and overall just a friendly, helpful guy who people like to work with).

      1. Joielle*

        Oh, and – yeah, entirely remote work is the key to this. Not having to get up early or spend energy commuting, and having the ability to lay down in bed during the day is a huge help. I hope you can find a good remote position soon!

    6. Blomma*

      I don’t have a great grasp of that line between everyday fatigue and ‘I’m able to fall asleep at my desk.’ My tendency is to push through pain and fatigue way more than a non chronically ill person would do. Remote work has helped me be able to manage my energy levels. Before the pandemic I sometimes would take a short nap in the car at lunchtime. On the medical side of things, earlier this year I did a series of B-12 shots and have taken an oral B-12 supplement since. It has helped a bunch! I have also been walking in my neighborhood on my lunch break most days which has also helped boost my overall energy level.

  63. Ari*

    I’ve accepted a job offer with a 10% pay increase recently!

    But I’ve realized I submitted the dates I worked at my oldest previous job incorrectly. I had the dates listed in a confusing way on my resume, and when I was filling out the application they’ll be using for the background check I copied them over wrong. So it looks like I’ve said I worked there for 3 years instead of working there for 3 summers.

    The form says that any misleading/false information could result in discharge. I’m not sure what I should do. I haven’t stared yet, but I was thinking I could let them know on the first day or maybe contact them before I start. I would do my best to make sure they knew it was an accident.

    I’ve gotten advice to not say anything unless they ask about it. But I’m concerned that not addressing it beforehand might make the situation worse.

    Any advice?

    1. In Libraries, Too*

      3 summers – was this seasonal work? If so, then having it listed as 3 years shouldn’t matter because the context indicates that it’s not a full year.

      For example, if you listed being a lead camp counselor for 3 years at a girls’ camp, anyone with knowledge of camps will assume that this was seasonal work, unless you include duties or other context suggesting otherwise (like mentioning autumn being recruitment season or chaperoning the winter holiday trip).

      1. Ari*

        Unfortunately not. It was just an ordinary food service job. It was my first job in high school, and I just didn’t have time to work during the school year. The only reason I listed it at all is because I don’t have a long work history.

    2. kiki*

      I used to work at a background check company and the first thing I want to say is that this is a really normal thing to have happen! It’s unlikely that this would lead to a discharge. The goal of a background check isn’t to penalize people who make simple mistakes, fill out forms incorrectly, or whose job histories don’t align well with the format of a form. Most likely, the background check company would reach out to that former employer to verify dates of employment. Your old company may provide your total employment for three years without caveats, or they may give the dates for those three summers separately. If the latter happens, you wouldn’t automatically “fail” the background check or something. The background check company would contact your employer and say, “it looks like she worked there for three years, but just during summers.” Your job may follow up with you about that, but there’s also a significant possibility they’d say, “Oh, that makes sense” and never bring it up to you and hire you as planned.

      The safest route would be to ping your hiring manager and clarify, “Hi, I realized the way I submitted the form may have been confusing, but I just wanted to make sure you know all I worked at X job for three years but just in the summers.” But it’s really not a big deal! Happens all the time!

    3. Hello*

      I would email and just explain exactly what you wrote here: “I realized when looking over my materials that I may have listed the dates I worked at X place in a confusing way. On the online application, it says I worked there for three years, but I actually worked there in the summers (June through August) of 20XX, 20XX, and 20XX. Please do not hesitate to reach out if you have any questions.” That way, if it is an issue, you’ll hopefully have lessened the impact by being up front, and if it isn’t a big deal, you’ve impressed them by showing that you value attention to detail and honesty.

    4. PollyQ*

      Tell them right now. Seriously, send the email today. The last thing you want to do is have a situation where it looks like you told a lie. I greatly doubt that they’d pull the offer over the kind of confusion you describe, but if they conclude it was dishonesty instead of an honest mistake, they probably would.

  64. Nervous but Willing*

    Is it worth applying for an internal position that requires 5+ years of relevant experience when I have ~1? For context: I’ve worked for this company for several years, my supervisor feels I’d be a good fit for this position, and would be a step up in my career path. I am already responsible for certain things in the job description – even if I haven’t been for all that long – though I have not done some of the others before. I would still be within the same internal group, so my management would be the same. I plan to discuss whether or not I could feasibly step into this position with my supervisor soon; I guess my question is, is this something people do? It’s not like I have no relevant experience at all and I’ve been in the same general area for years, but it would be a big jump in responsibility and I wouldn’t want to shoot myself in the foot.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Sounds like you’re going about this the right way: your supervisor thinks you would be a good fit and you’re going to have another, more in-depth, conversation with your supervisor about this position. If they think it’s feasible for you, go ahead and apply. Being an internal candidate (a known quantity with a proven track record) makes up for some of the lack of experience.

    2. Purple Cat*

      Sounds like you have the backing of your supervisor – and that’s HUGE.
      Go for it.

  65. Dzhymm*

    What do people think about withdrawing oneself from consideration for a promotion? A couple months back I got a new boss and I sat down with him to talk about career plans. I’m currently a pretty good llama wrangler and wanted to eventually become llama ringmaster. My new boss agreed and gave me a new task that was a bit of a stretch goal… and my performance on that task has been less than stellar, to the point where parts of it were quietly moved off my plate to other llama groomers.

    Since then I’ve come to realize that my talents are much better expressed in the role I’m currently doing now, and I’d be happy to just keep doing that for the forseeable future. There *is* a bit of an emphasis in my company on “career development”, which leaves me wondering how to proceed. I *want* to go to Boss and say that I believe that my talents are best spent in my current role and to withdraw myself from consideration for promotion for the forseeable future. Good or bad idea?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I think it’s totally fine to say something along the lines of “thanks for the opportunity to take on [stretch task]. It made me realize that right now I want to focus on developing as a llama wrangler for the foreseeable future, not on moving up to the llama ringmaster position.”

      In my company’s culture, I would wait until the next formal review I have with my manager (about every six months) but it might make sense for you to talk to your manager sooner than that.

    2. Purple Cat*

      Potentially bad idea, because I think you’re not approaching it in the correct way.
      I wouldn’t emphasize that you don’t want a promotion, I would focus on having a frank discussion on what went well and what didn’t on this project and ask your boss for a development plan to address those specific pain points. If you just say “I don’t want to be promoted” it sounds like you’re shutting yourself off to development opportunities.

  66. AnonPi*

    I’d been working (admittedly slowly) over the years to move into project management pretty much full time. I have experience but none of it is typical of typical/more formal PM practices (most of my experience is I not only manage the project but I’m often the only one executing it, with perhaps one or two others assisting or providing SME, mostly informal – so no project charters, no stand up meetings, etc etc). So I’ve been looking at positions along the lines of project coordinators, junior PMs, etc, to develop those experiences I’m lacking. Unfortunately after several years of searching nothing has panned out mainly due to low pay – I’ve been offered a few positions but they want to pay what I currently make or less (often with more work or fewer benefits too). I’ve not applied to a lot of openings because the pay is anywhere from 5-20K less than what I currently make. Part of it is the state I’m in (often lower pay than US average), but I suspect the field may be flooded enough at this career level that companies are not paying as well.

    It just kind of hit me this week that this is not working out, and I need to reconsider what to do next. I’m hoping some of you might have suggestions of areas to look into that can pay well and don’t require going back to school. Certifications I don’t mind, but I’m not up to another degree. I have a strong administrative background and a number of years doing science research support (field work, lab work, data analysis and management). One area I had considered is UX design/research. I’ve done a little of the design side and have enjoyed it, and from what a few people in the field have told me I could be a good fit for the research side with my scientific background. I know someone yesterday posted on AAM about privacy specialists, but I don’t know that it would interest me that much, though I feel I need to read up more on it before deciding. Anything anyone can think of I’d appreciate it. I’ve not been happy where I’m at, and now I’m feeling rather demoralized and lost with no foreseeable way out.

  67. Not An Athlete*

    Has anyone ever worked for a professional sports team? (mid-size market, major league). What was it like?

    When I applied for the job I had this totally stereotypical vision in my head that it would not be a culture fit for me because it would be a DudeBro, Jock-y, heteronormative vibe. But everyone I have met through the interview process (and there have been a lot of people through the course of a couple panel interviews) have convinced me that it is just my own biases and it’s a totally normal, diverse, workplace. But something in the back of my brain is still making me nervous.
    The job sounds great, and the people I would be working closest with seem awesome, so I think I am just nervous about switching industries. (and, for the record, I am not anti-sports. I am actually a big fan of the team, so could fit in in that regard.)

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Watch Moneyball. Then consider what 20 more years of change in that direction has wrought.

      Pro sports management has a large contingent of nerds now, from many walks of life. Ditto medical staff, psychologists, etc. And of course marketing and PR people have all sorts of different backgrounds too.

  68. NorthernTeacher*

    How to recognize the line between accommodations and enabling; then how to communicate concerns to a boss who leans heavily toward enabling?
    I am a teacher who was part of a 3-person kindergarten team last year. One of the members (f,50s) routinely did not follow through with the required aspects of her job (e.g. providing a supply plan when absent, providing notes that could be used to write report cards, and following through with Covid protocols). Her actions not only caused more work for me on a regular basis (e.g. supply teachers tracking me down during my prep to tell them what to do) but resulted in me not being able to follow through with legally-required aspects of my job (e.g. writing a report card that was accurate to the abilities of the student). These are all things that I know that if I (f,38) or the third educator (m,30s) had not done, we would have faced professional consequences and possibly a PIP. But, I was made to feel that I was the bad guy because the challenging educator has a medical problem and the principal (f,40s,English Canadian) implied that my concerns were due to a personality difference between us. She literally said, “your coworker is not comfortable being assertive like you are”, during a follow-up meeting about my concerns that Covid dividers were being removed from tables and three days back-to-back no supply plan was provided while the colleague was absent. The third education told the principal (and the principal told me these exact words) “I’m not getting involved” despite him complaining to me all the time about the same concerns I had. I provided suggestions such as making a few plans when she is well that could be ready for when she is away using a template I offered. I volunteered and followed through with watching the students by myself for an extra 20 minutes on top of her 40 minute lunch and 10-minute break, so she had time every day to write up her notes, but no notes were ever provided. And when we switch to online learning, she only had to teach 1.5 hours each day (I was teaching 3-4) but still did nothing. I moved to a different position in the school to get away from this situation, but the principal volun-told me that a community member (f,20s) had got funding to do a photo project with my students. And the situation repeated all over again as I ended up doing all the work (collecting costumes, making lessons .etc) while the community member did not show up for meetings, showed up 1 hour late on the day of taking pictures, no-showed the day they were supposed to take pictures of students who had been absent and then sent their report to get paid before the finished photos were sent to us. All things that went against the promises in their original proposal…they had written they would spend a week in the class working with the student, that they would help find costumes, they would get approval from parents for the finished photos and give us a copy of the report…etc. To date, we have not received the physical photos but an email of the photos and no sign of the report. The principal initially acted frustrated with the community member when I brought my concerns to her and said that I was correct in my concerns. But then changed her tune the next time pointing out that this person has a medical condition. The medical condition had only been disclosed because our school board required vaccination and the community person said they could not get vaccinated because of a condition with their heart. I would have understood if things needed to be flexible, but I am skeptical that the condition prevented her from calling/emailing to tell me she would be arriving late, or emailing a copy of the report to us at the same time as sending it to the organization who would be paying her. I was present and cc-ed on all communication between the principal and the community person, so I know for sure that the principal does not have additional information influencing her opinion. And the educator last year would talk about her medical condition in detail all of the time, so I am pretty sure that I am not missing something that prevented her from the tasks mentioned.
    How do I communicate with this principal when there seems to be enabling and it is resulting in more work despite me already drowning in responsibilities? How do I prevent this from happening again?
    Leaving for a different school does not make sense as principals get moved whenever the board decides to move them, so it would not be a guarantee that I would never have to work under her again.

    1. GlazedDonut*

      Hi! Former teacher here. Some of this sounds very familiar to me. For example, when I was a new teacher at a school, I volunteered to do the bulletin boards for the grade. A few years later, when additional work was added to my plate, I asked others to help/I would help them do it. No one did it. The same bulletin board remained up for over 2.5 years :) Guess it wasn’t that big of a deal! There are many examples like that (covering classes, writing reports, creating parent documents, etc).
      In my situation, upper leadership was the enabling body, so changing grades and principals didn’t help. I didn’t feel seen/heard until I left and told others about the unequal distribution of work. Some scripting that might help:
      -In a meeting when tasks are assigned, “I can do X. Who can do Y?” adjust as needed (“Jane and I can take X if June will take Y”)
      -With your principal, “I noticed I’ve been spending a lot of time lately on Z work, which is making my A work a bit harder to complete on time. How do you suggest I ask June to take on some of this? What is the best way to re-distribute? Would now be a good time to look at the assignments again given its been X months?”
      -When someone tries to give you something else do to that isn’t necessarily your job: “I can’t take that on right now. Hopefully I can be helpful in the future when my workload is lighter!”

      Education is rife with individuals who want to help because we all know the ultimate purpose and goal of benefitting kids. However, there comes a time when you have to have very firm boundaries, and if you’re working with someone who doesn’t respect them, be very very clear and stick with them. Repeatedly. And, leave if you can. It sounds like you think that’s not an option, though.

      1. Northern Teacher*

        Thanks GlazedDonut.
        You reply helped because there have been other examples of extra work being pushed at me in general. So the health excuse has probably been a false focus. I ended last year feeling like I was the problem for speaking up and not just finding a solution on my own.
        I agree that higher up is not helping. All professional development this year includes a “your not doing enough” message. And today was a pd day for writing report cards and we got an email two days ago reminding us that today is a work day and we are expected to be working our usual hours. (Heaven forbid I spread the work over three days instead of 8 hours sitting at a computer.)
        Principals are moved every 4-6 years so I just need to wait it out one more year or two until admin changes.

  70. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    Hey! My work productivity has returned to normal and my boss is again saying I’m doing a good job

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        My brain fog cleared up and they made the job a little easier. The only physical problem I have now is a mystery stomach ache which can be tuned out

    3. mreasy*

      I originally read this as “Help! My work productivity…” and I was like this seems good to me but…I’m sorry? Congrats!

  71. Anonykor*

    I’m a very high performer in a 100% remote job where, under normal circumstances, occasional travel is standard. (At this stage in my career, all essential job duties can be performed from home/office, but the travel is a “bonus” duty – beneficial, but not essential.) However, I’m at very high risk for both catching COVID-19 and a bad outcome if that happens. People at my company who currently do travel, work from the office, or both, regularly disappear on sickness leave and many have told me it’s because of COVID specifically. So far, my employers have been understanding of my unwillingness to travel, which I appreciate.

    However, I also deserve – and need – a raise. My industry pays notoriously badly and my company is on the low end of that scale. I live a pretty modest life, but I haven’t had a raise in two years and I was underpaid even then. I’m able to pay all of my bills, but after that’s done, I’m literally choosing which basic groceries (things like flour and milk and vegetables) I can afford at which times.

    I’m scared to ask for a raise because, although I think my performance merits it, I don’t want to open a can of worms about travel. I don’t want to be told that I don’t deserve a raise because I won’t put myself at high risk – but I also don’t want to be told that I can have a raise when and if I’m willing to take those risks again.

    What would you do? Is there any wording you’d recommend or use? Would you just… wait and not request a pay increase until you were comfortable with being asked to travel to get it? Anything I haven’t thought of?

    (American laws, including ADA, do not apply.)

    1. Anonymous healthcare person*

      What are the relevant laws where you work? Do you have an employment contract, benefits plan, union etc that would help to clarify your rights and responsibilities? How is disability and/or ability to fulfill non-essential job duties handled legally where you are, and also specifically within your company? This info should answer at least some of your overarching questions. If you have any mentors or trusted co-workers/managers, they would be good to ask. Also, try googling resources for employee rights, disability advocacy, legal advice, human rights info in your country/province/etc.

      Also, how are raises handled in your company? Is it considered NOT DONE to ask for a raise? (Ridiculous, if so.) In any case, I know the AAM archives have lots of info on asking for a raise. Also, doing some job searching will help a lot to see how employable you are. If it is easy (relatively) to get another job, then you can feel more comfortable with pushing harder for a raise, as well as give you some updated info on market salary rates for your job/skills/market. Good luck!

      1. Anonykor*

        Thank you for responding! I am currently operating without a contract or a formal job definition due to a role change that took place after joining the company. I have been told that I am not currently required to travel, but worry that asking for a change in compensation would spark a more extensive discussion of the fact that I’m not doing everything that the role has historically involved.

        My general layperson’s understanding is that I cannot be required to travel if I decline for disability-related reasons, but that doing so in a formal context (i.e., they require me to travel; I refuse on grounds of disability) would likely kickstart an extensive process of documentation and proof – something likely to be expensive and time-consuming, as well as challenging due to extremely patchy medical records.

        In my company, salaries are reviewed annually. Raises are uncommon and only offered if a person’s salary does not meet the minimum standard for their role (unclear how this is determined). If you ask for a raise outside the context of the normal review, you will be told that salaries are reviewed annually and there’s nothing they can do outside that process. I don’t know what happens if you ask at the right moment. I am relatively sure the raises are a summer process (I haven’t had one outside the context of a promotion in years), so now might be the right time, but this concern over added requirements is holding me back!

  72. Ozzie*

    How do you go about pivoting your career? I don’t necessarily dislike what I do right now, but I’m exhausted, and the way everything is going, it’s looking like I’ve created a place for myself that is hard to facilitate remote work. After the past couple of years, the thought of having to commute, be around people, etc…. it’s just not for me. I’m happiest when I can work from home and don’t have constant interruptions, etc. And staring a RTO plan that offers hybrid work AT BEST, and a possible 2.5 hour commute one way at least some times… I’m already burned out, and that just doesn’t cut it for me. I’m ready to be done, but looking at job postings, everything also just seems overwhelming. I don’t know what I’m qualified for (as I’ve pivoted from my degree into this field, and don’t want to pivot back), most places are dodgey about remote, soooo many don’t list pay… I don’t even know where to start!

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Because you’re burnt out, I would start with: can you afford to take time off in between jobs? How much time off? If you can afford a month or two, do it. Rest, relax, recharge.

      The second thing to ask is: what’s the lowest salary you will accept? Base this around your budget, not your current salary. It’s OK to earn a lower salary to have a better quality of life.

      The third thing is to find jobs/careers that can easily be done remotely. Bonus if they were remote pre-pandemic, because that means less chance of getting dragged into an office.

      Then look for the overlap between jobs that pay enough and jobs that are remote. When considering pay, it’s true that a lot of job ads don’t list the pay rate, but a quick search will give you a ballpark for similar jobs.

      1. Ozzie*

        I could feasibly take a month or two off (even with the encouragement of my partner, I think), I just get antsy at the thought of not necessarily having the control of when to end that break. (re: feeling unhireable, because impostor syndrome/honestly normal job hunt anxieties probably). It certainly sounds NICE.

        The rest – this is extremely helpful as a course of action, vs just… aimlessly browsing job boards to see what looks remotely interesting. (because let’s be real, nothing does in the throes of burnout) I’m currently a bit… tied to public sector work, thanks to student loans, but still, being able to consider certain, specific roles and work from there helps a ton. “show me non-profit job openings” is a bit vague, and just results in a LOT of clicking!

  73. Shallow Sky*

    My organization is sending a group to a professional conference next week – we’re flying out next Wednesday, the conference is all day Thursday and Friday, I fly back early Saturday. I booked my own flights (I need to do them myself because I have some legal-name issues going on, this was approved in advance) in April and submitted the needed information. But I’m not allowed to book hotels, so I left that to the travel office.

    I got the hotel info early yesterday; according to the date stamps on the receipt, they booked the hotel in mid-May, when they’d had my flight info for three weeks. My flight back is Saturday, because there’s no flights on Friday that wouldn’t mean missing a good chunk of the conference, but the hotel room is only two nights – Wednesday night and Thursday night. (According to the flight info I got in the same email, everyone else is flying back midday Friday, meaning they’re missing about a third of it; I was not told about this until Thursday.) They apparently just didn’t think to mention this to me, do anything about this, or otherwise make any arrangements so I’d have somewhere to sleep Friday night. And sent out the hotel info less than a week in advance, so I have very little time to do anything about it. I am hoping really really hard the hotel and my organization will let me extend the stay by a night, because the only alternatives that are coming to mind are “spend the night in the hotel lobby” and “hope I make a friend who’ll let me sleep on their couch”. The airport’s not big enough to be open overnight, so that’s not an option, or else I’d go for that.

    I have already sent an email to the travel office outlining the problem and asking what on Earth I should do about it. I’m willing to pay for the extra hotel night, because it’s needed because I booked my flights weirdly, but what do I do to make that happen? The travel office moves very slowly, and even having explained in my email that I need a response to this fast because this is happening in one week, I’m not sure I’ll have a response in time to follow their instructions. If I don’t get an answer… what do I do?

    (I’m avoiding panic by reminding myself this isn’t the end of the world no matter what happens, the worst-case scenario is that I have to spend the night in the hotel lobby and sleep on the plane/in the car passenger seat on the way home. Which won’t be fun, but no one’s going to die.)

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Get your manager’s ok by email to book yourself a hotel for Friday night, then put in an expenses report on Monday. Please don’t sleep in the hotel lobby.

    2. WellRed*

      Call the hotel to see if they have availability. If not find another hotel in the area. Book it. Let your mgr and whoever know. Unless your company is unreasonable this should be fine. I’m surprised your travel office didn’t confirm your flying dates. I also suggest doing that proactively in the future.

      1. Lady Danbury*

        This! It’s totally normal to spend the night if a conference ends in the late afternoon and normal for your employer to pay for that night. If they’re committing the time and money to send you to a conference, normally they want you to get as much out of it as possible.

    3. Maggie*

      Change your flight to Friday by calling the airline or book and additional night at the hotel by calling the front desk. Then get the ok from your manager to use a corporate card or put it on your personal and ask for reimbursement. If you’re fine using your own money just go book the hotel room online.

    4. LadyByTheLake*

      This is totally normal, no need to panic. Just let the travel office know that your flight back is Saturday and could they extend the hotel reservation one more night. That’s it!

    5. Shallow Sky*

      Thanks for the advice, folks. I got permission to book a hotel room (the hotel claims they were even able to attach it to one of the existing reservations so I don’t have to move), we’ll sort out the expense issues later, I will have a bed to sleep in Friday night. (I did briefly try the conference hotel to see if they had an open room for that night, since they look a lot fancier and the conference rate was cheaper. I apparently called as they were trying to shed overbooked rooms for the conference period, and they informed me that they absolutely could not offer the discount rate that’s cheaper than the Best Western three blocks away.)

  74. Anxious Job Seeker*

    Looking for commiseration and tips.
    I’ve been with my company 16 years and have finally decided to move on.
    I have so.much.anxiety over it. General anxiety in that I have perfectionist tendencies and think I suck, but also the anxiety over talking to new people, are they going to like me? Will I like the job? and general interview stress.
    Alison advises to keep applying and not putting all your eggs in one basket (which I totally agree with), but each new application unleashes more and more anxiety.

    Any coping tips?

    1. Ozzie*

      I don’t know if this is helpful, but this is what I tell myself when anxieties like these send me into a spiral:
      – People do this type of thing literally all the time
      – Everyone stresses out about these things, my feelings are totally normal
      – If I hate the new job, I can always leave, nothing is permanent
      – Meeting new people is always stressful, but they probably aren’t giving me that much thought – and definitely not as much as I am giving them! In situations where the roles are reversed, how much time am I spending thinking about the new person? Usually almost none, because I’m focused on other things.
      – No one expects you to know everything when you start a new job – and if they do, there are way bigger problems at hand, and I should refer to my third point!

    2. Nathalie*

      I struggle with this whenever I start a new job. Going from having a lot of tenure and expertise to knowing nothing and nobody is always a shock and I don’t think I’ve ever started a new job where I didn’t have a reaction like “Oh my god this is terrible I can’t do this I have to quit” within the first week. I cope with it by telling myself that after [x] amount of time (say, a month), I’ll start looking for something new. It makes getting through the month easier if I’m telling myself that it’s going to be over soon, and inevitably by the end of the month I’ll feel better enough about things that going through another job search sounds like the more painful option.

    3. Squirrel Nutkin*

      One thing I learned when finally sitting on hiring committees after many long, unsuccessful job searching years was that just because the hiring committee didn’t end up hiring someone, that didn’t mean that the person did something wrong or was bad in any way. Especially in a competitive field like the one I was in, we had to reject SO many wonderful people, any one of whom was totally qualified to do the one job we had available and who probably would have done a stellar job. We rejected a LOT of people whom we liked very much. What I realized is that, especially in a tight market with tons of qualified applicants, who gets hired is sometimes a combination of random luck and the committee’s hopeful guess about who would best fit the needs of the employer right then. It is often truly not personal. I think knowing this, I could face the job market with more equanimity now, knock wood.

      And if an employer actually *didn’t* like me? Well, then, their rejecting me was really a win for both of us. Who wants to work where they’re not liked? I wanna work where people like me–the real me–not some fake interview persona.

      So please cut yourself a break, if you can. I 100% agree with Alison that you should apply widely and then try to let go of the outcome for any particular job. Best of luck to you — I hope you land somewhere where they will truly appreciate you!

    4. irene adler*

      I get anxiety too when applying for jobs. Some of it I chalk up to part of the job hunting process.
      Some of it I try to mitigate. I worked on meeting new people and that helped with the anxiety over what new acquaintances might think about me.

      See, I volunteered for a professional organization. Initially I worked with a small group (like 8 people) every month. That created a safe environment where I interacted with a small group working on a common goal (managing the section). Over time I interacted with more people and now I actually host the monthly section meetings (via Zoom). Five years ago I would NEVER have hosted anything.

      And, consider that the person(s) you meet might have an equal amount of anxiety over what you may be thinking about them. So consider that and maybe work on some ways to make them feel less anxious. It will take the focus off of your anxiety.

    5. Joielle*

      Small practical tip: do a power pose before interviews! If you google “power pose ted talk” there’s a short lecture from a psychologist about how (paraphrasing here) adopting a powerful posture makes people feel more powerful. It seems SO goofy the first couple of times you do it but for me (another anxious person), it actually does seem to help. I do power poses before lots of big meetings now.

  75. Anonyatl404*

    I would love some help/advice from anyone who can listen. I am beyond frustrated. So I am a sales person with a base salary plus commission. I moved here for this job in late February (with relo). According to my commission paperwork, monthly commissions will be paid in the pay period after they are earned. I was told during my interview and my first week here, that I would have until the 15th to turn in what my sales were for the previous month, and then I would get paid on the last check of the month. Well I am still waiting on my March commission check. When the last paycheck came around in April and there was no commission, I spoke with my boss and they said, well because of the way our contract is set up with our partner (we are contractors), we have to wait for them to pay us before I can pay you commission. Fine, not ideal, but I don’t collect my own money so whatever. Well, I was promised it on May 20, and no commission. I get told that there was an error in my spreadsheet (that they have had since APRIL 12) and that they couldn’t process it. I fixed it and I wake up this morning and still no commission (we get paid every 2 weeks). Do I have any recourse? Who do I go to about this? I am very very tempted to go above my boss’ s head, but don’t want to stir up too much drama. I am frustrated because I am told I am a rockstar and have literally tripled sales, but my boss can’t go to bat for me to make sure I am paid. Thanks in advance!

    1. Squirrel Nutkin*

      At this point, I’d A. Contact the Department of Labor/Wages and Hours Commission for your state and report what’s going on and B. Look for another job — don’t keep working for people who promise to pay you and then don’t. C. Post a Glassdoor review so others don’t get suckered into this.

      1. Anonyatl404*

        Well I am getting paid my base, it’s my commission that is missing. Should I still go to the Department of Labor/Wages?

        1. WellRed*

          Have you gone directly to payroll to ask them how to Make This Happen? I realize they may kick it back to boss.

        2. Squirrel Nutkin*

          I’m glad they’re paying you your base, but if the commission is a significant part of what you’re earning and if they don’t resolve this soon-ish, then yes? Not paying you part of your compensation and delaying it for months and months is also wage theft. It would help if you had the schedule of when commissions are to be paid in writing, but if they don’t wind up paying you your commission for months and months, then I think that you still have a reasonable complaint. Keep a paper trail of your attempts to get paid your commission, like your e-mails documenting what you were told in the interview and in your first week on the job, and store it somewhere other than work/work computers. If you’re nervous about blowback at work, then maybe get another job that, knock wood, will pay you on time and *then* report oldjob for wage theft. You sound like you’re an awesome sales rep, so I’ll bet there are lots of places that would love to have you!

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I think you have a DOL claim for wage theft. You have paperwork of the compensation schedule for commissions and they are not upholding it, therefore you aren’t being paid part of your compensation. IANAL but I don’t think it matters to your claim if it’s your company or the one they contract to that is delaying/withholding payment, the end result is your company owes you money.

      It’s not drama to expect to be paid money owed to you, and it wouldn’t matter if you were a rockstar or barely making quota so your boss is just blowing smoke there. I’d take it up with DOL ASAP.

  76. Teapot Studies Freelance Rate*

    I mainly teach in Widget Studies at my college. I am also, however, the unpaid head of our Teapot Studies program because I feel that Teapot Studies is an important area for us to continue offering and because no one else will do this unpaid job. (A program in Coffee Pot Studies at the same school essentially collapsed a few years ago when no one was willing to do it unpaid.) I was not originally trained in Teapot Studies, as few if any Teapot Studies programs existed when I was in school, but I teach the Intro to Teapot Studies course now and have a reasonably good overview of the basics of the field.

    I just got contacted by a local company asking if I would conduct some sessions on Teapot issues with their employees as part of a diversity, equity, and inclusion initiative. Squelching my impulse to just say yes, I asked what they had in mind in the way of payment, and they came back asking for what *I* had in mind.

    Anyone have an idea of what I ought to charge for this sort of thing? The presentations themselves might be an hour and a half each, but it would probably take me a couple of hours to prepare each.

    P.S. My school would be fine with me doing consulting work like this as long as I report it and as long as it does not interfere with my work for the school, which it won’t.

    1. GlazedDonut*

      This probably depends on where you live/regional areas. Others might be able to offer specifics, but if there’s travel involved, I’d definitely ask for that reimbursed (I think federal rates are something like $0.57/mile). I’d consider an hourly rate with your planning/prep included. Education contractors where I live make about $50/hour, if that helps.

    2. Not that Leia*

      In California, an outside training/facilitation recently for my company cost about $1500. This was for one person to both plan and lead a virtual meeting for about 50 people. If it’s a for-profit company, $50/hr seems WILDLY low, but maybe that’s just CA pay rates talking…?

  77. I hate job hunting*

    Out of curiosity, how many references are you usually asked for when applying for a job. A place I just had a preliminary chat with HR told me that if I make it to stage 3, they will want 5.

    I’ve only ever been asked for 3.

    1. Ozzie*

      I also have only ever been asked for 3. I also don’t know if I could produce 5 references once I rule out current work contacts. (doesn’t help I’ve worked at the same company for close to 6 years)

    3. A Penguin!*

      I’ve been asked for zero, two, three, five, and an unspecified number. Three is the most common.

      When I’m on the asking side I ask for 2-3.

    4. A Simple Narwhal*

      I’ve typically been asked for 2 references, 3 is the most I’ve been asked for.

    5. Dragonfly7*

      I always have three lined up because that is the most common. I think I’ve been asked for 5-6 once or twice, but that position wanted both professional AND personal references.

  78. RTO Problems*

    I accepted a job in a new city/state during the pandemic. It was all remote with the intent to go back to office.

    Return to office started last summer and it’s been a horrible experience to put it mildly. My boss said I had a hybrid schedule but it was five days a week for 4-6 hrs/every day.

    Some consistent issues: I would regularly go in and no one else was there, I’d be sent home because what I needed wasn’t there, or I’d have to leave early because senior staff there wanted to go home and I couldn’t stay. I’ve been actively interviewing for new jobs and get far in the process but for the foreseeable future, I need to try to stick it out and I don’t know how. My manager is aware of these things but doesn’t see them as problems (I want to mention I pay for 12 bucks for parking every time.) So I don’t know what to do anymore.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Have you sat down with your manager and really discussed could you make the hybrid 3/2 day split instead of a few hours every day? I’d be really annoyed too. Does work offer any paybacks for parking? I’d try and make that conversation focus on two issues, one is obviously can your hybrid schedule be fixed, two is the communication issues. Can they better communicate when you should be home/there. Frame it in conversation as wanting to be more efficient at your job, lacking materials or getting there just to have to turn around and go home is wasting time that could be productive. That might get through to them more.

    2. Just another queer reader*

      To me it sounds like the cost of parking is the biggest problem here. You are asked to go in for a few hours (variable), 5 days a week, but have to pay for parking each time.

      Did you know you’d have to pay for parking when you took the job?

      You could ask your boss, “the cost of parking is really adding up! Any way I could come in 3 days a week for the whole day instead of 5 days for a half day?”
      Or
      “Is the company able to help with parking costs? The costs come out to $240/month and I didn’t realize that when I accepted the job.”
      (Are there any other creative solutions? Transit, carpooling, biking, a different parking lot? Better scheduling so you don’t get sent home?)

      Good luck. I hope you can find a solution, or a better gig.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      Can you ask your boss if you can change your hybrid schedule to 2-3 full days in the office instead of in the office 4-6 hours every day? At the very least this will save you $24-$36 in parking every week.

      Also, is your boss in the office every day? Is he one of the senior staff who goes home and kicks you out because you can’t be in the office alone? Or does he have some other hybrid/work-from-home arrangement? If your boss has a different schedule or arrangement, is there any way you can change yours to match his?

      This does sound like a crappy situation, and I hope you get a better offer soon!

      1. RTO Problems*

        Without getting into identifying details, my boss has a really inconsistent schedule as they also go to another location.

        My main issue is less the cost of parking (which is still an issue) but more going there by myself or the erratic schedule, like going there to be sent home or sitting there a few hours and having lights turned off because the other two people there want to go home. I don’t work on projects with the other people there so I feel very isolated and frustrated going there.

  79. Snorlax*

    I slept 90 minutes past my alarm for the second time this week and I am going batty about it. Both days were WFH, so I do not think my boss noticed, but I’m debating whether to disclose how much my chronic fatigue is starting to affect me. My boss seems pretty chill so far, but I’m only on the third month of this job and don’t want it to mess with her perception of me??? Ack.

    1. mreasy*

      “I have a medical issue that is flaring up right now which is causing me to sleep through my alarms unexpectedly. I’m working with my doc though, and I expect it will be back to normal soon.” Or, if you want to ask for a shifted schedule, do that. If your manager has seemed reasonable, I think as long as you mention this isn’t the norm and it’s for a reason you’re addressing actively, a good manager will not presume anything bad about you!

    2. WellRed*

      Interim fix; do you need a different alarm clock? A louder one or one that gets consistently louder?

      1. DisneyChannelThis*

        Commenting with my favorite whacky alarm clocks:
        Clock that makes bacon
        Clock that rolls off the dresser and away from you
        Math puzzle on phone clock (solve the equation to silence it)
        Deaf friend’s alarm clock which shook the entire room (vibrating pad under matress and flashing light)
        Sunrise gradual light on in room clocks (Bonus sunset light timer)
        Other friend’s series of sequential alarms the first goes off by the bed, the second 5 min later on the dresser, the 3rd 10min later in the bathroom, then the kitchen.
        Coffee pot with the timer function so there’s coffee waiting on the nightstand when the alarm goes off

        2. Joielle*

          LOL I love the idea of alarms located progressively further along the morning routine. It’s like a game show competition for yourself every morning!

          1. DisneyChannelThis*

            I have tried this game. The worst part is when you wake up ahead of schedule, silence the alarm clocks and are downstairs drinking tea when suddenly you hear the faint beeping of one you missed somewhere.

        3. Snorlax*

          omg the math puzzle on phone sounds like it might work (the ones that move farther away from me never work bc no matter how far they are in the apt I will just…crawl back into bed…. but if i have to use my brain that might wake me up more!)

      2. Snorlax*

        It’s worth a shot! My body/brain have outsmarted many alarm clocks in the past but there’s always some new ones to try.

  80. The Crowening*

    Does it make sense for a high school student looking for early work opportunities or even volunteer opportunities to carry business cards? If not, what’s a good alternative?

    The student in this example is a very brainy 15 years old and is into all things aerospace – and we happen to live in an area with a heavy aviation and space industry presence. This question arose at an airshow recently where he struck up conversations with an assortment of local folks, from a guy volunteering his own time to fix up an old aircraft to people running the booth for a local aviation-related tourist attraction. He wished he had a way to connect with these people. I thought maybe a business card… but that feels really outdated. He doesn’t have a social media presence at all, but even if he did set up a LinkedIn or something, he doesn’t have any work history at his age, and anyway, it’s hard to imagine someone looking him up. While the business card feels very 30 years ago, I’m also struggling to think of a useful alternative.

    Any ideas?

    1. blood orange*

      I don’t think we’ve come up with an effective alternative to business cards as a culture, so I love this. If I met with a HS student in a business context and they gave me a business card I would be surprised and impressed. He will still likely need to do the heavy lifting on keeping any contacts he makes, but I like the first impression.

    2. WellRed*

      He can ask them for their cards. I get they seem unusual in this case but I don’t think it’d be that weird for him to have his own too.

      1. Joielle*

        Yeah, what he needs is to get the OTHER person’s contact info so he can reach out to them. Having his own card might be helpful sometimes but I’m thinking it’ll be mostly on him to maintain the connection.

    3. Filosofickle*

      Cards have fallen out of use but are still useful. However, the burden is likely on him to do the follow up, so what he needs is their information more than they need his. I’d recommend he simply ask for their permission to stay in touch and if yes how to contact them. If they have a card they’ll give him that and if they don’t he can jot down their phone/email whatever they prefer.

      LinkedIn may not solve the immediate problem because you’re right that they won’t look him up, but again it works as an outbound method. He could set up a page that just has his intro / personal statement and capture connections there for the future, which might come in handy as he approaches college and career planning.

    4. Just another queer reader*

      I think LinkedIn or another personal website would make sense, even if it’s basic.

      Beyond that, make sure he writes down the contact info for the people he meets!

    5. The Crowening*

      Do you all suppose there is any hazard to him having a LinkedIn at his age? We’ve been pretty guarded with his digital footprint, but obviously he is reaching an age where he might benefit.

      1. Joielle*

        I don’t have kids (but do have nieces and nephews and some friends’ kids who are around the same age) so take this advice with a grain of salt. I can’t think of any harm to having a LinkedIn, as long as he knows not to fall for phishing scams and that kind of thing. Personally, my LinkedIn is not something I interact with much – just a way for people to find me if they want to stay in touch.

        (Interestingly – and maybe counterintuitively – among my friends and family, the kids who have had social media longer have overall gotten into less trouble with it. I think it’s because they’ve grown up understanding the norms and the platforms themselves, and are less likely to do things like click a suspicious link or accidentally post a message publicly when they meant to send it privately. YMMV of course! But something to be careful about as he learns the ropes if he’s completely new to social media.)

    6. David's Skirt-Pants*

      How about a QR code that takes people to his personal website or V-card?

    7. Angstrom*

      Heck, a low-tech way would be to carry a couple of pens and some blank index cards in his shirt pocket, or a small notebook. He can write down his contact information and give it to the person, and write down the other person’s contact info or have them write it down. It would come across as being prepared and serious.

    8. Nesprin*

      Would be wildly out of touch for a highschool student to carry business cards. Instead ask for email addresses + add on Linkedin.

    9. tamarack and fireweed*

      Moo cards! (moo dot com) Mostly they sell regular business cards, but the original Moo card was smaller & playful. I see now you find them under Business cards > mini business cards. They also have square cards. They have pre-defined designs but the attraction is that you can upload your own design / photo and even make each card unique. They’re inexpensive. (Full disclosure, one of the original company founders ran in similar geek circles to myself back in the mid 2000s in London, and we all had Moo cards just for handing them out at nerdy get-togethers.

      I mean, sure, what’s cool and what’s uncool changes a lot during high school times, but maybe it’s still charming for someone these days.

      1. KathyG*

        Please do NOT encourage him to get business cards in anything but the standard size and shape. Non-standard cards are a pain at best, and can backfire at worst.

  81. Tech writer by day*

    Readers who work for companies that offer unlimited PTO—-how does your FMLA leave work? Is it all paid? Do you get a certain amount paid and the rest unpaid? Does it differ depending on whether you’ve given birth or are caring for an ill family member?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Depends on the type of leave, but it varies. Can be up to 100% for certain situations.

    2. Henry Division*

      Yes, it does depend on what you’re leaving for. It also depends on your state. In NY, we have separate family medical leave, parental (maternity/paternity) leave, and personal health leave. To my knowledge it’s around 3 months for each of these, and they are counted separately. I know someone who went straight from medical leave into paternity leave.

      With unlimited PTO, I imagine it’s company by company basis as to what they want to do after the state-mandated time is up. I would ask! Smaller companies may not even have a policy yet, and it might be something you can discuss.

      1. Henry Division*

        Well I was slightly wrong on this. It is state-by-state, but FMLA is not generally separate from maternity leave, where it is offered. The rest is still certainly case-by-case and company by company.

    3. Kage*

      Our company’s unlimited PTO policy includes the rule that you can’t take more than 10 consecutive business days at once. So they have separate FMLA/maternity/paternity policies to cover the longer absences like that (and in our case only partially paid).

  82. WellRed*

    We are hiring and my boss asked me to review job description which asked for candidates to apply with salary requirements. I said I disagreed with that and we should post the range. It’s out of my hands but one little voice at a time, eh? But I did wonder, how does one post salary range for a truly remote position? I assume my counterpart based in NYC gets a higher salary than me simply to account for COL.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think you would post a range and say there may be variability based on geographic location. That said, there are some companies (rare) that will pay the same regardless of location.

      1. Ozzie*

        I agree with this. I imagine I am not the only person out there who simply won’t apply for a job if there is no salary listed, so even a broad range with that note would encourage me to apply, because at least it has been given consideration.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Honestly, when I’m looking at a job posting, even if the range is super broad, to me that’s still better than no range at all. I’d rather see “$60k-$140k” than just… blank. Blank could mean they want to pay you $30k, for all you know.

          1. Ozzie*

            Yep exactly. Even knowing if the minimum is worth my time or not is enough to get me to apply (if everything else looks good of course). No salary listed goes instantly in the trash.

          2. irene adler*

            For me, Blank implies “let’s see how low a salary we can pay to get the candidate”.

        2. Filosofickle*

          Curious — what proportion of relevant ads do you see with salary listed? Because over the past few years I can count on two hands the relevant listings for me that show salary. I totally want to make that stand but it doesn’t feel like something i can do if I want a new job.

          1. A Penguin!*

            When I was last looking (last summer), I’d say 70% or so had either a range or a minimum listed. Northeast USA, engineering.

          2. Ozzie*

            Admittedly, it weeds out a TON of positions. I’m not going to sugar coat that. But I can usually tell if a position will list its salary or not before even getting that far on the listing honestly. The requirements/job duties very, very often make it clear in relation to the title. If I see an “Associate” position with “manage” in the duties, there’s rarely a salary listed, for instance. Or associate that requires 5+ years experience. It’s just another red flag on a pile, honestly, for most listings. The very good listings that then don’t list salary are much, much more rare, and very disappointing.

      2. Ama*

        I’ve seen some remote job listings recently that give a range, but then say things like “Salary range given is based on San Francisco area employees; exact salary may be adjusted based on COL in remote employee’s location.”

    2. Anonaly*

      Echoing others… At this point, I click straight out of job postings or now applications systems (there’s one employer in my area that has the pay range at the end of the application for some reason) that don’t have a salary range posted. If there’s not a salary range, I may look at educational requirements to get a decent idea of what the salary might be, but I’m really looking to see a generally specific salary range (say, $70-90K instead of $30K-100K). I don’t want to waste my time trying to finagle interview times around my work for a job that will ultimately want to pay me what I made 15 years ago, or waste their time.

      As someone who used to do a lot of hiring, it was very frustrating to review applications, schedule phone interviews, and then have people literally hang up during the phone interview after the salary range was disclosed. We had one person end an in-person, multi-day interview process on site because we didn’t tell them the salary range ahead of time. Give them something before sinking everyone’s time into the process, even if it’s not perfect. :)

    3. Can't think of a funny name*

      When I was looking, it was fairly common to see something like, “The compensation range is $X to $Y for Colorado applicants.” Or something to that effect since Colorado requires pay in job descriptions. That at least gives people a general idea.

  83. anon for this though*

    I am a senior exec at a company in the entertainment sector. The industry I’m in is known for strong personalities, and I’ve dealt with plenty of them – usually with a normal amount of annoyance and frustration, but ultimately I’m known as a good communicator and quite diplomatic so have usually managed to sort things out. As a woman in a leadership role, I have been accused of being “difficult” in the past for behaviors that men in similar roles weren’t scolded for (this has been verified by third party observers), so I’m particularly sensitive to not tone-policing women leaders.

    There is a senior person on a team who works with mine regularly who has my same title level, though her boss is technically my peer due to our department structure. I was initially excited to work with her as she has a great background for the role and I love to have another strong woman leader on the team. However, she has clearly come to dislike me IMMENSELY. She is directly undermining to me individually, and will scold me in a meeting with many junior colleagues for asking a (neutral) question or making a (gentle) suggestion.

    My work unfortunately overlaps a lot with her team’s, in that I have to approve a lot of materials that they create due to the nature of my role. When I make suggestions or explain that something is incorrect, I often get major pushback from her. She has also hired consultants whose background is similar to mine, and when I asked about it, she didn’t explain “oh they are working on these specific areas of these projects,” she huffed that ‘he is extremely successful and experienced and you should stop being territorial.” I actually quoted this to her boss and he agreed it was inappropriate.

    But here’s the thing. She won’t be fired. She has a metrics-based track record that is powerful and we need her work. I am potentially moving into a new role at the company that may not involve working with her. But I’m at the stage now where I have to say, if the new role involves working with her I can’t take it, because I can’t do this anymore. She is so mean to me that I get actively upset regularly. I had to stop going to meetings she is in because she makes cutting remarks about my department’s work, or she scolds me by saying I’m being “narrow-minded” if I suggest a change to something to make it more aligned with our brand or, frankly, with factual reality.

    Her boss knows and I believe thinks I’m overreacting. I am hesitant to go too far into it with my boss because I simply hate to burden her with it given how much else is going on during our company restructuring. I just want to say “I can’t work with her, can you lay me off if I have to continue” but that seems unlikely. Our HR is useless, just absolutely useless. I have most things “documented” but while she and I are both in protected groups (age & gender), we’re in the same ones and she is clearly not doing this because I’m a middle aged woman. It’s because she doesn’t have respect for me or my background (20 years experience). She’s a little older than I am but not so much that she would feel ashamed for being a VP if I’m also a VP…I just don’t know what it is.

    Anyways, sorry for the novel. Should I just ride this out & hope it improves with new role? Or should I tell my boss (who is her boss’s boss) that if new role involves working with her I can’t do it, so maybe she can either change her plans for it or…something else? Not sure what’s possible here. I will say my boss really likes me and has said things like “I can’t do this without you” but my work is not as measurable as this other person’s so I cant imagine the C-Suite allowing her to prioritize me.

    1. been there...*

      one thing stuck out to me “she and I are both in protected groups (age & gender), we’re in the same ones and she is clearly not doing this because I’m a middle aged woman” actually maybe she is. I’m in the same age/gender group and have had this from other strong women as well, where they got territorial (interesting that she accused you of that – pot/kettle?) like there’s only room for 1 strong woman on the team . Or they were extra harsh so people would not think “those women all gang together” . Years of fighting misogyny sometimes leads to overreactions like that.
      That may not be the case, and at any rate it doesn’t really answer your question.
      I would wait a little and see what the new role involves, maybe you won’t have to work with her. Or maybe you will need to work with her, in which case think about what you can do to deal with her (maybe look up some discussions here on dealing with difficult people?) And have the resume ready before you make any “her or me” statements…
      good luck!

      1. mreasy*

        Thank you! It could be that she is particularly territorial because I’m another woman but there hasn’t been any indication of that, she could simply be a jerk. And I hate to assume that about another woman, but it always comes up. Resume is ready, I’m doing some vague applying. I really don’t want to put my boss in a bad position but I also know that I won’t be able to work with her on a regular basis (occasionally is fine), so I might just see what she says about the new role. Otherwise we’re close enough that I’m confident she’d work with me on things. I appreciate your reading my novel. It’s such an awful situation and I’m so frustrated and sad about it.

    2. irene adler*

      This is a bully. And when her cutting remarks are left unchallenged, or when you no longer attend meetings because you can’t take what she dishes out, or you issue ultimatums, she wins.

      For some reason she views you as threatening to her. Which may be something completely baseless.

      Look, I’m not good at office politics. So what write should be taken with a big grain of salt.

      You need to stick up for yourself.

      When a cutting remark is made, call it out (“That was uncalled for.”, “My suggestion does have validity. It goes towards alignment with the brand. Your plan/idea doesn’t.”). This needs to be done every time she makes an inappropriate comment.

      Attend the meetings you need to attend- even when she’s attending too. Do not allow her to scare you away from them. Otherwise she escalates. What else can she scare you away from? Will it escalate such that you will no longer be able to perform your job? Will you be fired for that? If so, then she wins.

      Do not expect HR or boss(es) to step up to defend or protect you. Your boss’ “I can’t do it without you” comment needs some backbone. What action is he willing to take to tame the bully who is driving you away?

      1. Anon for this*

        Oh gosh I should have said – I have stood up to her and it went very badly. She simply blamed me for the conflict and for being territorial or overreacting etc. My boss is great and I’ve mentioned it to her, but she hasn’t witnessed anything. The bully’s boss is the one unwilling to do anything, but I think it’s because he thinks I’m overreacting. BLECH. Thank you for your comment. I do need to push back, I just kind of don’t care enough to be in a conflict with her.

        1. WellRed*

          Just because your boss doesn’t see it doesn’t give her a free pass to ignore it. However, if you can embrace the “don’t care enough” that’s helpful. Remember, she’s the one with the problem. Otherwise why take things out on an innocent bystander. Eff her!

        2. irene adler*

          Standing up to a bully isn’t always pretty. Clearly this one is well versed in how to deflect blame.
          Be careful.

          The bully’s boss is not going to do anything because he knows it get ugly when tangling with this bully. And he does not like ugly. You assume that he thinks you are overreacting. He’s more interested in his comfort than your well-being.

          Why does your boss need to witness any of the interactions? See, the bully is careful and will not ‘bully’ when bosses or others that might intercede are around. So your boss is not going to witness this woman in action. So I have to wonder, what is your boss really willing to do to keep you around?

          Remember: The bully knows what your boss and her boss think about the situation. And she will use it to her advantage.

          Try hard not to cede any more ground to her. IF this new position can get you away from her, that would be the best thing here.

      2. Policy Wonk*

        Women of a certain age often learned that only one woman was going to get the job/promotion so were socialized to see other women as the competition rather than all the men getting the jobs/promotions. She may have come up through the ranks in the kind of environment, so sees you as a threat to her position.

        I agree with irene adler that if you no longer attend meetings, etc., she wins. But I have also worked with and for bullies like her and find it incredibly exhausting to constantly be on alert. And it sounds like she is trying to force you out. I think you need to start looking for a new position if she is as protected as you say. I would talk to the boss about her problematic behaviors (as they apply to the work specifically) but I would not give any kind of “I can’t work with her” ultimatum or you may find yourself out before you are ready.

        In the meantime, to the extent possible stand up for yourself – and more importantly your team – and call her out on her BS in the moment. (Winston Churchill supposedly used to practice his witty comebacks in the mirror so they were ready when needed. Given that you know her tactics, prepare a few and be ready to wield them when needed.)

    3. Ann O'Nemity*

      It sounds like your company culture allows bullying, and even you yourself excuse it (“we need her work.”) My advise is to stand up for yourself in the moment. Be calm and factual. If the bully gaslights, denies, or shifts blame, be ready with a breezy mantra like, “I’m glad to hear you’re not undermining/criticizing/scolding/etc my team. I’m sure we both want to encourage respect and a good working relationship between our teams.” And just keep repeating it.

      Also, start using your privilege as a senior exec to improve the culture. Think about how you can encourage respect and foster positive teamwork. If you are getting bullied at your level and no one is doing anything, I bet there’s a lot of other bullying and ill treatment getting ignored at all levels. I mean, look at what you two are modeling for everyone else!

      1. Anon for this*

        I haven’t spoken to my boss about it – the whole thing is so stupid – because there’s so much going on & I feel like I’m probably overreacting. But the meetings I’m glad to miss!

      2. Anon for this*

        Honestly it doesn’t. That’s why I’m so flummoxed. My boss, the president of the company, is extremely kind, thoughtful, and generous with her time and attention. All of my other colleagues save for one who I just find smug are genuinely great coworkers. The whole thing is extremely strange! Luckily it’s usually only between us, and I don’t push back anymore as I’m just not interested in “winning” or whatever she wants. I’ve truly never been at a company where people are so supportive and helpful to each other. She started in February so is still relatively new, and I’ve been there 4 years…this is the only experience I’ve had like this. I’ve mentioned to my boss that we don’t get along well, but never the extent. I am one of the 4 more senior leaders at the company (we are a subsidiary of another larger organziation) so I just feel like I should be able to get over all this. I’m holding out hope that the new role (at a different subsidiary) means this all won’t matter but… I just truly don’t know why this is happening.

      3. Anon for this*

        Ultimately I think I am blaming myself because she doesn’t act this way with others / a little impatient & bossy but not this extreme at all. I just don’t know why it’s happening at all.

        1. Anon for this*

          Too many comments but I’m usually quite outspoken and don’t allow people to treat me this way but she’s just so relentless that I stopped being able to care. Ugh. I just don’t want o have to get another job. Thanks everyone.

  84. Eleanor*

    Removed — I don’t want posts here that invite people to bash others based on race or gender. – Alison

  85. careful what you ask for you might get it.*

    Hello, I’m looking for advice how to handle a brilliant coworker who either has poor social skills or a huge ego (or both) , i need to help him realize he is part of a collaboration team and not in charge, we value his input but he needs to shut up and listen… and do it diplomatically…. We brought him in on a collaboration team we recently formed between medical and engineering teams – this collaboration is tenuous and relies on a few of us that have good relationships but we had to work hard to get them to work together and not “horde information” and recognize each groups contributions. This particular person was brought in because of his expertise in analysis, and we really do want his input, but he constantly ties in late to meetings announces his presence loudly like we were all waiting for him (we weren’t) , interrupts the conversation talking over people and trying to drive the conversation to what HE wants to discuss, not the agenda. When meetings had to be cancelled/rescheduled because of conflicts for key personnel he sent out email to the group demanding to know why this was cancelled and that he needs this data , why are you not doing what i say etc etc. He is making this tenous relationship worse, i’ve been asked by the other team to get him in line and frankly we are at the point of removing him from the team. I’ just don’t know how to explain to him that he needs better soft skills and to play well with others. Ideas?

    1. Ozzie*

      Is he younger/inexperienced, or older/more experienced? I think that that drives how you handle this, ultimately.

      If he’s younger/inexperienced, there’s a solid chance that effective mentoring can direct him to be a better collaborative worker, because he might not know the consequences of his actions. It would be nice if he could put 2 and 2 together on this, but sometimes people needs to be directly told these things to see any improvement, and might need mentoring/coaching to get there.

      If he’s older or more experienced, he… might not be coachable here. Some people are just not well-suited to collaborative work (just as some may not be suited for management, people-facing roles, etc). Soft skills are called skills for a reason, and if he has no interest in developing them, for whatever reason, then you may simply have to remove him from the project, or at least the collaborative capacity of it.

      His actions are having a direct impact on the project you are working on, so he probably needs to be talked to about it directly. Lay out the consequences of his actions, and propose a solution that works for you, and would enable you to keep him in his role in it. See what he thinks – not only if he thinks he can hold up his end of that, but also if he wants to. Did he volunteer for this project, or was it assigned to him? Was he excited about it, or not so much? These wouldn’t be excuses for behaving in such an aggressive way of course, but it could at least shine a light on the situation, and perhaps drive the course of your actions on it.

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I would be shocked if any gentle coaching causes a 180 in this persons behavior. You could name the issues and say he can’t stay on the team if they continue but it sounds like he’s actively working against the charge of the group, so really you should just remove him. If you want you could give his manager a heads up so that person can handle the fallout but I don’t know if you have standing as coworker to do much in this specific situation.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      You need to be clear to him that part of the expectations for doing well in the role is fostering and maintaining warm, professional relationships with colleagues. This is a job requirement for him (and everyone). Then spell out what that looks likes:

      – arrive on time for meetings
      – if you are late, arrive quietly, do not announce your entrance
      – follow the meeting agenda
      – do not talk over people

      If he has trouble seeing the connection between “success at his role” and “success of the team,” I would spell it out as:

      Your job is to provide analysis for the success of the team. For the team to be successful, the analysis must be good and it must be presented/shared in a respectful, professional manner. If you cannot share your work in a professional manner, you will be removed from this team.

      1. Nesprin*

        I actually disagree- I’ve worked with many many older experts with crap teamwork skills. In my experience, if they won’t play well with teams, and you can’t actually make them to be good on teams, don’t put them in a situation where teamwork is key.

        Instead, I’ve been silo-ing my problem experts into a separate meeting with the absolute minimum staff necessary to get input on only the things that they are useful for. I.e. if the team needs to discuss A, B, C, and D and problem expert is the expert on D, the team discusses A-D at the standing meeting, then I take questions on D to problem expert in a separate meeting. Next team meeting I bring back problem expert’s input on D.

        Team is happy that expert isn’t derailing discussion on B any more, Expert is consulted on areas where they’re useful etc.

    4. Colette*

      I think the key word there is “coworker”. There’s not much you can do as a coworker, especially if he’s the kind of person who always thinks he’s right. Where’s your manager in this?

      1. Careful what you ask for*

        We’ve raised the issue to his manager who supposedly talked to him. I don’t hold much hope but the next meeting is next week…

        1. PollyQ*

          Yeah, the “co-worker” part, combined with his seniority, almost certainly means that this isn’t going to be a problem you can solve, and probably isn’t even a problem you can address. I’m not sure why the other team went to you with the issues, but I recommend you point them to his boss, who’s the person who actually can address his behavior.

    5. Mockingjay*

      Can you get his input without collaboration? Task him to provide specific information or contributions that you or someone else incorporates. If his specialty is analysis, give him the draft product or report to review, then the group can (quietly) address his comments and research suggested changes.

      You’re still valuing and using his expertise. It can be couched as the most effective use of his time to have him focus on analysis instead of another meeting…whatever might work.

  86. Green Goose*

    This’ll probably get buried but I just HAD to share. I’ve been at my current company for almost eight years, it was my first job out of grad school and I was very green when I started. Wakeen hired me and while I love the organization and mission, Wakeen was truly a horrible boss. He’s a very smart guy but I think he hired me because he viewed me as meek and someone he could speak to however he wanted. I spent 18 months working for him and during this time I had so much stress whenever I interacted with him, he would hold me hostage in conversations where I had asked a question or expressed an opinion (normally a benign question like, where is document X) and he would not permit me to leave until I said I was wrong. There was always a thinly veiled threat of my termination if I did anything to displease him. It was so belittling and demoralizing and I actually can’t believe I put up with it, but my confidence was very different back then and I was constantly scared of being fired.

    One time he came into my office and closed the door and spent 45 minutes telling me he regretted hiring me but “that was on him” for making the mistake because an intern offered to help me on a large, time sensitive data entry project and I had said yes. He made me rescind the acceptance, and then I worked 12+ hours a day and then intern did nothing.

    Anyway, he eventually got fired YAY. And things have been so much better ever since, and obviously I’ve stayed at the company a long time. I’ve heard through the grapevine that he has struggled to keep jobs over the years and was even fired from another place for very similar behaviour, but his direct report complained much quicker than I did.

    Well, I have not worked for that man for six and a half years and this week I got 3-4 emails asking for me to be a reference for him for a job. I was gobsmacked. It’s crazy that he would even think that is appropriate but wow, he must have really burnt bridges everywhere else if he’s asking ME for a reference. Happily ignored that request.

    1. Purple Cat*

      Good for you to ignore the request!
      I would probably have happily accepted the request and told the new organization *exactly* how I felt about Wakeen.

      1. Green Goose*

        Definitely tempted. I just realized I left out a pretty important detail, Wakeen is married to someone I still work with and that’s a reason I’m not going to do that.

        1. the cat's ass*

          What a trash goblin! And you not going for the karma is more generous than he deserves.

    2. Lizabeth*

      Or you can write back and say something along the lines of “Wakeen was my boss and I can’t provide a reference.”

  87. Anonaly*

    I know the rational, no-emotion answer to this and guess I’m interested in less of the “you do you” and “if they were laying off, they wouldn’t think twice about you” and “you could get hit by a bus and then what!” advice, as I know work is a business transaction and I do need to look out for my interests and the tangible value-to-workload payoff I’m bringing to my household. I like my management team, have good working relationships with them, and know that what I’m possibly doing would make their jobs nearly impossible and likely result in disciplinary action against them, when the house of cards inevitably folds.

    My coworker is leaving. I’m the last person left who can do a job that ensures that a large part of the organization can legally function. Hiring is not going well. And I’m now actively applying for WFH positions in an adjacent field with typically a 20% salary increase. I’m only looking for these positions because my coworker is leaving and I don’t want to be the last person left with the entire workload; if my coworker was staying or hiring wasn’t such a long shot, I wouldn’t be looking until next year, if at all. How crappy is it that I’m looking to bail out because my proverbial wingman is leaving and the cavalry is not coming, while knowing what it more than likely means for my managers?

    1. Meep*

      Honestly, if they do not have procedures in place, it is on them. If you feel bad, you can certainly spend your two weeks writing them. However, while it might be crappy for your managers and you like them, there is personal responsibility on their end if they made any one person essential rather than the job.

      1. Anonaly*

        I respect this advice and appreciate your answer. In trying to be vague, I suppose I didn’t provide some key context around the “legally function” part. Writing procedures would mean writing and upending federal law and opening several training programs to meet the need. There are not people out there to hire. My license and work is federally required to be in compliance with federal and state laws. It would be like providing patient care without any licensed providers and having the last remaining physician write a Guide for Doing Surgery for a Bachelor’s level employee; totally illegal. (I’m not a surgeon.) My management team certainly has dropped some balls on hiring, but it’s a crisis facing my entire specialty, unfortunately.

        1. Meep*

          Respectfully, I think you are missing the point here. It isn’t that you are writing step-by-step instructions on how to do brain surgery for any old monkey here. Very few fields will be hiring people with no real-world experience and expect them to run an entire company for them. (I mean, my former company tried and keeps trying this so never say never, but…) It is that the next brain surgeon is going to need to know where to drop off and pick up clean scalps. If they cannot do that it is on them. And again, they should’ve been better prepared if one person leaving collapses the whole company.

          I say this from a place of just getting out of a wild-ride start-up where I was the lynchpin doing 90% of running the business (with the Bachelor’s in Engineering). I left them dozens of documents including their own passwords. It was on them for putting it on an individual, rather than making it so the job can be done by anyone (who is qualified) for the role.

    2. Purple Cat*

      Honestly, it’s not crappy at all, but I 100% understand your feelings. Most people do have a sense of loyalty to their company, but the reality is, it’s no longer reciprocated equally. This is a management problem. One thing for you to consider is what would it take for you to accept a counter-offer. Think of it ahead of time, so you’re not put on the spot if/when the time comes.
      – Work from Home options
      – Salary
      – anything else

      And then ask yourself if that’s enough the cover the next 6-month S*(storm while you’re still understaffed.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      It’s not crappy at all. And, honestly, what’s the worst that could happen? You leave, they don’t have the proper structures in place (which they should) to deal with an employee leaving, and then they either A) cope or B) completely collapse. If they completely collapse, then that’s on them. And ultimately, most, if not all of the people who used to work there will find jobs at other places. It isn’t your fault in any way shape or form if the organization collapses due to bad planning. To be clear, it would be 100% due to bad planning and policies and not due to you and your co-worker leaving.

    4. Just another queer reader*

      Is there a specific reason that hiring isn’t going well? Could you point out to your higher-ups that the salary band needs to be increased/ you need to hire a recruiter/ etc to fill this role?

      1. Anonaly*

        I did want to answer this one, even as more of a rant. These aren’t specific terms, and I’m using “MD” here as it’s general vague equivalent. There are two tiers in my specialty: MD (earn six figures, usually work in private sector) and limited practice (earn five figures, work in government orgs that are required to have at least one person with a specialty license). I’m a limited practice person in a rural government org that cannot shut down but can be fined millions and lose funding. Very few MDs work in the government orgs, since the pay isn’t great. Additionally, training programs for the specialty license are required to have full-time MDs, but programs also can’t afford to pay the MDs, can’t increase program seats without adding faculty, and are gradually closing. The handful of highly selective training programs left in my state each graduate about 5 MDs and maybe 1-2 limited practice people a year. That leaves the existing/attrition-laden pool of limited practice people and 3-6 new limited practice people each year for a revolving door of 40-50 openings statewide. It’s a catastrophe that no one cares about and my boss can’t control. And these are some of the nuances that made asking my question on a generalist site pretty shortsighted.

        1. AcademiaNut*

          Short answer – you staying in this particular job isn’t going to fix what sound like large scale, serious, systemic problems in your field. It’s a catastrophe in the making, but your personal sacrifices aren’t stave it off. There’s a good chance the powers that be might need to go through the catastrophe, and clean the mess up afterwards, for anything to change.

    5. kina lillet*

      It might be a nice courtesy to talk with your managers about what you’d need to stay–it’s REALLY not nothing to like your management team. They might surprise you with the ability to give you a significant bump, or other benefits that make it worth it.

      Would you stay at your current gig if you could work from home? If you were paid more? If you had longer timeline expectations? If you were able to find some outsourcing or freelancing (I know not possible in every field) to tide you over until you hired a coworker? They presumably know that your role is crucial and may be able to pull strings to get you to stay.

      I worked in a fairly small company where people leaving could really hose certain operations for a little while. Generally people were pretty understanding. There were a couple more rancorous departures, but those people were not as well liked. The remaining staff were undeniably stressed about the real issues caused by people leaving, but ya just kind of have to deal with it.

    6. Anonaly*

      I appreciate the replies and time put into them. It helped me realize I need to reach out to the handful of colleagues I have in my entire region to talk through the unique factors facing not only my organization but our specialty as a whole. I don’t want to give more specifics here, and, as I look to reply to comments, I’d have to pretty much out myself and my work; I have coworkers who’ve read here before, so that’s a no go. Probably should have accounted for that before posting. But thanks – it’s appreciated.

    7. Girasol*

      It’s certainly common. Especially where a team works well together, when one member leaves – whether by quit or layoff – others will voluntarily leave soon after. And it’s not the under-performers who go first when a team breaks up. It’s the really good employees. If your managers were on their toes they’d be making an extra effort to retain you.

    1. Researchalator Lady*

      Like in your other posts, I see that you seem to not really be open to feedback even though you are asking for it. Were you hoping for affirmation? To be told that it’s great, and you should send it? If you’ve sent appropriate documentation, then you need to read Alison’s column about “when your manager won’t manage” — where she says “You have one big problem: your boss.
      You can try to reason with him and use logic, but ultimately there is only one thing that solves the problem of working under a boss who is afraid to take action. I’m sorry to say that it’s this: Leave, and go to work for a boss who is willing to do his or her job. I know that’s not an easy solution. But in my experience, it is the only long-term solution.”

      It doesn’t matter if the boss is afraid to take action because of Diversity! or because he wants to be A Nice Guy, or what the reason is. Job hunting, is the actual next step for you, or find a way to keep training her without losing any more sleep or stressing any more about it (maybe by accessing therapy through your EAP). Good luck!

    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      Have the conversation about DEI issues verbally rather than putting it in writing. Put the objective, performance-related stuff in writing. Put the issue of different treatment from other employees in writing (i.e., ignoring that the PE lied on their resume). But keep the “HR is ignoring all this because of DEI reasons, and is undermining their own DEI efforts by doing so” conversation to phone or in-person verbal. Putting it in writing COULD put you in a very bad position because it could be spun as “Stressed holds a grudge against this person because they are a member of a protected class and also does not support the company’s DEI policies.”

    3. You've done all you can*

      Then you’ve done all you can and need to accept the problem employee is staying. Nothing good can come of sending that email. You’ve already gotten the final answer from HR.

  89. ellie*

    About to finish graduate school and new to the job search. What is the etiquette on applying for a position in an organization while currently in the interview process for a different position in the same company? I was approached by an internal recruiter at a company I am interested in working at and did well in the first interview. I’m currently waiting to hear back about a second, much more involved interview (I was told by the recruiter that they were still interested in me, but were doing preliminary interviews of other candidates – it’s been a couple of weeks, which is making me nervous, but I’ve already emailed to ask about timeline and gotten a wishy-washy answer). This company has multiple organizations that I would be qualified for. Is it a faux pas to apply to these other positions? Should I reach out to the recruiter to do it or do it on my own? (Field is biotech research, if it matters).

    2. The Detective*

      How large is the organization? I’ve done this with some employers, especially massive ones. Heck, even the medium-sized ones will still have different recruiters. If you dig through the archives here, you’ll find similar guidance that so long as you have a reason for being interested in the positions you apply for and there’s somewhat of a sort of consistency like in the types/qualifications for the jobs, it’s probably not that big of a deal.

      Granted, I’m not in HR and not in biotech, so take this all with a grain of salt if your industry operates wildly differently.

    3. Anonaly*

      If the Position #1 is closed and that hiring team is done (which doesn’t sound like is the case, even though the process is dragging), it wouldn’t be an issue to apply for another position. If Position #1 is still open, there is a risk that applying for another position would raise flags and/or hurt your candidacy for at least one of the positions. I wouldn’t personally apply for multiple positions at once. If you were to apply for multiple positions, I’d suggest the positions be reasonably within the same vein of work with a clear thread, rather than something like Director of Accreditation, Assistant Director of HR, Administrative Assistant, Assistant Controller, etc (I’ve got nothing on biotech research positions so I’m going with what I know). I’ve never worked with a recruiter and don’t have advice on that.

      Anecdotally, when I worked at a small teaching college and was on hiring committees, we decided to not move forward with a candidate who had made it through two interviews for a staff position when we got word they had applied for a faculty position in the middle of our staff search. We wanted someone who wanted to be in the staff position in the long-term, not someone who was really looking for a stepping stone to a faculty position, and two of my colleagues took the faculty application as indicating the candidate had BS’d some of their interview answers about why they wanted to be Title of Staff Position. The candidate was not interviewed for the faculty position out of respect for our staff search. This is just anecdotal for one instance where I’ve seen it really backfire.

    4. Purple Cat*

      Since you’ve already had a conversation with the internal recruiter and (theoretically?) are being moved forward for the first role, I would flat-out ask them what the correct approach is for additional roles. Ask if you should start from scratch or they may have an internal process where if jobs A and B are VERY similar they automatically pass resumes to both hiring managers.

  90. azrael of the fishes*

    how do i convince my boss/other leadership to take me seriously when i say i don’t have an interest in advancing?

    quite frankly, i am excellent at my job. i receive great reviews and regularly get positive feedback. because of this, it seems like everyone expects me to continue up the ladder, cover for middle management when they’re on PTO, etc.

    but i don’t want to! i want to do my job well and be respected for it, but i make a good salary and genuinely like what i do. i’ve covered for leaders in the past and have disliked so much of it and it’s always been a relief to be back in my current position. i like helping new hires or team members with different expertise. i think the intention is coming from a good place, but every review is like where do you want to go next? and it’s like… well… i don’t?

    1. Purple Cat*

      One worry companies have is that their employees are going to get bored and jump ship – that’s one of the reasons they push for advancement. Also, most people WANT more responsibility because that comes with more pay.
      So – make sure you ask if staying in your current path is going to put a cap on your salary. Then – also consider how else can you learn things and expand your influence in your company. If you’re a llama groomer, can you learn about camel grooming? Or if you only brush llamas, can you learn about hoof care. (do llamas have hoofs??) I’m an individual contributor right now and I understand the desire to stay in your lane, but you also have to make sure you are continuing to develop/expand your skillset, otherwise when you go to look for a new job, you might be perceived as “stale”.

    2. Filosofickle*

      Yeah, i’m bumping up against that. They want me to take a higher level position because it benefits the team, and they also seem to find it unfathomable that I don’t want to move up. I have tried leader-y work and simply don’t enjoy it! It’s draining. Being a senior individual contributor is what works for me. I have a performance review coming up, and all I can do is cheerfully hold my boundary and try to convey how I really do prefer it this way and plan to keep adding value at this level.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Is that a standard question at review time? You might try asking if they have to ask you that question. If they say yes, you have a whole new conversation on your hands. You can simply say, “I like where I am and I do not have any plan of moving from here.”

      The harder side of this question can be, “how do you plan to grow in place?”. I would answer this question by point out unmet needs at my level. For example, I see a problem at work where X’s are not in the computer. I’d like to build a spreadsheet putting the X’s in order. We’d be able to use the spreadsheet for quick checks on X as opposed to physically searching through all the Xs we have. Once this is done we would have advantages A, B and C.

    4. Silence*

      Perhaps ask for a path to become a technical lead rather than managing so you may train colleagues/ have input on which technology would be best fit the company

  91. WhatAMaroon*

    I have a friend who’s looking to move up to the next level for his industry and work but is struggling with knowing how exactly to do that. Does anyone here have a good career coach or executive coach recommendation that might help him? He’s an engineer who’d like to move to a more engineering management role and given some of the things he’s talking about I think he’d benefit from consistent work that you do with a coach. Thank you in advance

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I don’t have any recommendations for coaches, but if your friend works at a place that hires interns maybe he could ask to mentor and/or manager an intern this summer or next summer to get some experience with managing and employee.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      No recs sorry but the advice I got was to look at the job ads for the higher up positions and pull out what keywords and skills were different to the job ad for his own job. Acquire those skills.

  92. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

    I am a government contractor on an existing contract that is expiring and my company is on the losing team. I am moving to the new company, and in typical government contracting fashion, they underbid so a lot of people are having to take pay cuts in order to keep their current positions. I put in a target salary and just got my offer letter. My yearly salary offer is $500 less than what I requested. Do I pushback for the $500? Does it sound petty to do so when I only took a $500 cut from my target and others transferring from one company to the new one are getting offers of 5-$10k less than they requested? Note, normally what you request is about what you are making now. I very recently started earning this new salary due to a performance review, I was making $4k less per year until last paycheck, so technically it’s still a raise for me, even though I can prove that this is “what I am currently making” per company documentation.

    1. Peppa*

      Knowing the climate and your conversation with the Hiring Manager/HR that you could do a soft pushback? Something akin to: “Thank you for the offer, I’m looking forward to working together. However, I was hoping for $X” and then, as AAM will tell you – stop talking! :)

    2. Mockingjay*

      Don’t forget to account for the benefits package. For instance, if you will use NewCo’s medical insurance, what is the monthly premium you’ll have to pay? Copays? etc. That $500 could cover a difference over what you have now. But if it’s a wash, you could elect to stay at their offer in order to secure the job.

      Not an easy decision; I’m a fellow contractor. It’s the downside of our industry. Let us know!

    3. Policy Wonk*

      Ask them to meet your current pay, with the pay stubs. Can’t hurt to try. (In government we will generally accede to requests to meet current pay, provided we are given pay stubs as evidence of the pay.)

  93. A Simple Narwhal*

    There was a work question on this week’s Big Mood Little Mood (formerly the Dear Prudence Podcast), and I was absolutely shocked to hear Danny and guest actually give good advice! His work advice is usually awful (stemming from the fact that he’s never held an office job), but I think he actually nailed it! To be fair, this question probably didn’t require office experience, but it was refreshing to not be yelling at my phone going “noooooooo that will never fly in an office, don’t do it! You should have messaged Alison!” for once.

    To sum it up, the LW was one of the highest-ranking people at their non-profit but after 7 years somehow only made $15/hour, with no insurance or benefits, and they wanted to know if they should stick it out for some vague promise of improvement or bail. They love the mission but they can’t pay their bills, and they’re worried about going somewhere worse. Danny (rightfully) was essentially like “GTFO, these people suck, they can’t tell you you’re important and then not pay you”, it was actually a really interesting episode!

    1. WellRed*

      My fave work related non Alison question of the week featured a woman with naturally curly red hair being criticized for cultural appropriation by another white woman coworker because white women obviosly can’t ever gave nonstraight hair. The dingbat coworker won’t drop the subject and has tried to enlist others, including a Black woman, to the cause.

  94. Snuffy*

    I left a job earlier this year after having only been there for a year because the place was such a mess that the stress and workload took a toll on my health. The new job I took on has been pretty great – nice people, reasonable workload, fun culture, etc. However, things are not going well financially and it’s to the point where I suspect we may have layoffs by year-end (I work in strategic planning, so I see the financials/hear the discussions in real-time).

    I want to get ahead of things and start putting feelers out there. But when I inevitably get the question of why I’m looking to leave so soon, I don’t exactly want to reveal too much about the financial situation since 1) it’s a publicly listed company and 2) it’s a decently big employer in my area. Plus, with my previous job stint being 1 year and the one before being 2 years, I’m worried about looking like a job hopper. Any ideas of how I can communicate why I’m looking without giving away too much company info and not looking like a job hopper?

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      I think you can be honest that there’s been hints of impending layoffs, and you’re looking for someplace more stable you can stay at for a long time. Layoffs can happen for a variety of reasons, sharing that doesn’t necessarily mean things aren’t going well financially.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I would wait to put feelers out until whatever is going to happen, happens. Take the severance, then you have a story to tell about why you’re looking so soon.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      There’s the classic, “I wasn’t looking to make another move. I truly wanted to stay for a while. But this opportunity came along and I can’t say no.”

      Your real challenge is what to tell the interviewer about the job changes. To the interviewer, I’d try a deflect/distraction of some sort. “Well I wasn’t seriously looking for a job, but I got really interested in your company for x, y and z reasons.” If they ask about so many jobs in a short period, if you can say, “Covid related stuff was going on, my goal became to remain employed. As you see, I did.”

  95. Andrea*

    Hoping someone in a similar predicament can help me out.

    I’ve (38/F) been in a customer service (hospitality) type of job for all my working life. In between, I’ve only changed jobs a few times but they’re all in the same field and generally in the same position (entry level). Because of that, admittedly, I tend to stay in lower positions. But I never cared for a higher or managerial position because the stress is not something I want to deal with. My current job, while the pay could be better, offers great benefits and work-life balance. It’s been great for my mental health. So, honestly, I’m comfortable where I am.

    Sadly, my current job is under a fixed term so I will need to look for another job by the end of next year. So I decided to do some early job searching to see what’s out there. In one recent interview, while commenting my work history was “impressive”, the interviewer added that he couldn’t understand why, despite my experiences, I hadn’t been in any managerial or leadership position at my age. When I told him that it’s because I am not interested in it, he replied that it was a strange thing to say and it shows that I lack ambition and a clear career plan. Obviously I didn’t get the job and that’s fine but his comments has been bothering me for a while. I mentioned this to my manager friend, who also responded that it’s a weird thing to say because most people work to climb up the (career) ladder or for better opportunities.

    I understand that being in a higher position comes with their own various perks, but is it really a bad thing to not be interested in any career advancement? At this point in age and seeing just how the world is with Covid and other things, I just want to live a simple, stress-free life. As long as my expenses are paid and I have enough money for my hobbies, I’m fine with where I am career-wise, but wondering if this mindset will be damaging or will bite me back in the ass in the future.

    1. azrael of the fishes*

      sorry, no advice, but literally same. i asked about the same thing a few comments up. :)

    2. Anonaly*

      I think the interviewer’s response was weird, and his comments on your age, motivation, and career path was inappropriate.

      However, I would think it somewhat strange for a person with a lot of strong experience in one field to not have accumulated higher-level positions (not necessarily management or leadership positions) organically through workplace needs and as that person has become more efficient in their work. For instance, I’ve seen someone go from Receptionist to Administrative Assistant to Data Coordinator to Quality Assurance Specialist in the same department in recognition for their work accomplishments, efficiency, and acquired knowledge/skillset, without taking on leadership duties or more hours. What I would wonder about, looking at an applicant with a ton of resume experience in one industry but minimal growth, is that the applicant doesn’t adapt to changing needs or is not willing to take on additional work that allows for that growth. I don’t know how that would translate to hospitality but is there a way to emphasize your work accomplishments to help diminish the idea that you haven’t grown or advanced? I’d also add that, back when I did a lot of hiring and training, I would have been happy to have someone like you apply for a ton of positions that others saw as short-term stepping-stones to bigger positions. It’s definitely okay to not want to lead or manage.

    3. Purple Cat*

      I think you have to highlight why this IS your career plan and isn’t a “lack” of a plan.
      Emphasize that you like the hands-on aspect of your role and working customer-service. You don’t want to move into a management role that will take away from that while also taking on people management duties. Don’t be apologetic or meek about it (because you have no reason to be either). Know and name exactly what you like about the roles you’re applying to.

    4. fine tipped pen afficionado*

      You’re valid, Andrea. I don’t know if this will apply because in my situation I am interested in advancement just… advancement in a technical direction, not a managerial one. But here is how I frame it if it’s helpful:

      When asked about this, I let interviewers know that my strength is in X skill, and while it requires being able to work seamlessly with others, it isn’t necessarily the same skillset you need to manage them. And I have enough experience to know what skills I’m interested in growing and which ones I not. I’m seeking growth in X project/skill, but I would not be happy spending most of my work time managing others and teams require a leader who is excited to support them and won’t see it as a burden.

      YMMV but this kind of framing has worked for me.

    5. WellRed*

      I think it’s best to try and frame it in a positive light. “Oh, I’ve thought about it at times, but I honestly enjoy X, Y and Z,” and why you like it and how you are good at it.

    6. Nonnie Today*

      I agree with Purple Cat and fine tipped pen afficionado.

      You can also frame it as you want to be a “specialist” in X field or X skill, rather than a manager. Specialist, like manager, is also a way to move up, and it shows that you have a career plan/growth plan for yourself.

      Good luck and don’t let that jerk get you down!

    7. Not So NewReader*

      It looks to me like he was looking for people he could promote and move upward. When he found out you were not interested, he was surprised by your candor. And he also knew you were not the person he was looking for and he became rude. I am thinking bullet dodged. People are usually on their best behavior in an interview. If this is his best, then imagine how he treats his employees.

      There are plenty of employers looking for a rock solid employee who is content to stay put and rock the job for years. It’s good you found out on the interview that you both were not a good match. This could have turned into something really stressful tug of war for you had you gotten this job.

      Overall, know where you are happy, this is a huge asset. So supposedly the ideal is to climb the ladder, be wealthy and then be happy. But how well does this work out for people? Not everyone gets happy, some get down right miserable. It’s good that you know where you are content.

  96. fine tipped pen afficionado*

    Happy Pride!

    I need help figuring out a line between the personal/professional. I’m attending a Pride march tomorrow as a private citizen; however, I work for the municipality putting it on and in fact am a prominent member of the LGBTQIA+ Employee Resource Group and organizing committee and because of my role I am a fairly recognizable municipal employee to the public.

    I am not on the clock tomorrow and I’m not an elected and I’m torn about how much I can really let loose at this event. Is my mesh crop top gonna be too much when so many of my co-workers will be there? Is it okay to pre-game with a flight of mimosas? Am I overthinking it?

    I had such fun and was so proud of all the work we did to organize it and now I’m worried I won’t even enjoy it because I’ll be anxious about whether my off-the-clock me is too much.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Happy Pride!

      I want to be able to tell you to celebrate however you want to and not think about your coworkers at all, but I know it’s not that simple.

      No advice, just a question: if you were going to a concert and planning on letting loose and then found out several of your coworkers were going to the same concert, would you change how much you planned on pre-gaming and what you planned to wear? Maybe adjust your Pride plans by that amount.

      1. fine tipped pen afficionado*

        That’s a good way to think about it. I think maybe I just needed permission to do what I was gonna do anyway LMAO. My coworkers are all fine and I don’t worry about them so much as certain residents we serve. But if there’s any heat for it I think I’ll be happy to take it. :)

    2. Colette*

      I’d say skip the mimosas – it sounds like this is a work event for you, for the most part. Having fun is fine, but being drunk (and possibly been rude, aggressive, or overly familiar) is not.

      1. fine tipped pen afficionado*

        It really isn’t! When we were organizing it we were very clear that the Events team would be running it so members of the ERG could just enjoy. My workplace knows that, it’s just the public that may not. Hopefully my lack of name tag or staff shirt will be enough to let them know.

    3. Policy Wonk*

      Have fun at the parade and celebration!

      I caution that for public employees a government sponsored event is quasi-work. Enjoy a mimosa or two, but maintain – don’t overdo. If you are marching with the employee resource (or some other) group I’d say dress comparable to those you are marching with – if they are wearing crop tops, its fine. If they are dressed more conservatively, follow suit. If you are not marching I’d say your mesh crop top is probably fine given the occasion.

  97. Purple Cat*

    Personally- I think mesh crop top and flight of mimosas are absolutely a-ok. Since you are “known” what is a potential activity that you wouldn’t want your boss to EVER have proof you did? Whatever that is – don’t do it tomorrow ;)

    Otherwise ENJOY and CELEBRATE!

    2. fine tipped pen afficionado*

      Thank you! I think I’m more worried about some uppity members of the public than my actual coworkers. They’re all fine, but you know when residents complain about something–no matter how unfounded–it can turn into a whole thing.

  98. Angry and sad*

    I would appreciate help wording my email to the head of HR, as I am currently fuming and may not be stringing together the most effective sentences. The company I work for leans older/conservative, and I have never expected them to be openly supportive of LGBT+ employees. We just recently added coverage for transitions to our medical plan this year, if that tells you anything. But I did not expect this- we have a ‘citizen law’ survey that solicits employee feedback on various political issues (I disagree that this should exist at all, but I pick my battles.) The question today reads “should schools be required to notify parents if a student is having gender identity questions or issues?” and there’s a multiple choice yes/no to answer. I personally know gay and trans employees here and I can’t imagine the gut punch this will feel like to read. It was sent out in a companywide email to all users (we have just over 10k employees.) I can’t keep my mouth shut about how I feel, but I want my opinion to be constructively worded.

    1. Purple Cat*

      WHAT?!? I strongly recommend sending this into Alison as it’s just so bonkers I would love her perspective.
      What business reason does HR claim to exist to justify asking these intrusive questions?
      It seems incredibly unlikely that the answers are confidential either.

      I guess that would be my approach. “Polling employees on X doesn’t further the company’s goals of Y. What is the purpose of these questions? How are the responses being collected”.

    2. fine tipped pen afficionado*

      First: That’s unbelievably awful (I say, sitting in a state currently pondering a Don’t Say Gay law itself).

      Second: Thank you for saying something. An important part of allyship is speaking up so the community doesn’t always have to lead the charge.

      Third: Whatever you say is unlikely to actually change minds, but it may plant seeds that one day will sprout into something productive. It may seem like nothing comes of it no matter what you say but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth saying. Even if it just let people know that not everyone is okay with it. Your LGBTQIA+ coworkers will certainly appreciate the reminder.

      Fourth: I would talk about youth suicide rates and homelessness in the LGBTQIA+ community which you can source from the Trevor Project, and how the greatest likelihood of experiencing violence comes from a queer person’s own family. I would tell them that many queer people don’t come out at work because it doesn’t feel safe, and being asked questions like this sends the signal that it isn’t safe and this isn’t a good place for queer people to work. And also, you can’t know how many of your employees are going to suffer for having their existence questioned like this. If it’s a fairly conservative place, try to bring it back to how it can impact the business because they’re unlikely to give a shit about anyone’s personhood or feelings.

    3. Dasein9*

      Write several drafts. This is something I have learned from experience, alas. Any rage that comes through in your words should be the cold, incisive, logical kind, not the kind that can be pointed to as an example of irrationality.

      One point you may wish to make is the safety of _all_ members of this corporate community and how inappropriate it is to suggest that the very identities of the professionals in your company would even be an issue that is in any way problematic, yes even though your company is not a school.

      You might choose to mention the current attacks on trans people’s access to life-saving medical treatment as a context in which this question is deeply inappropriate.

      You might choose to remind your company that the dignity and safety of its employees are compromised when their human rights are treated as an appropriate topic for debate.

      Good luck!

    4. Just another queer reader*

      I am so confused why your company is polling employees about political issues, but it sounds like you are too.

      Anyway. Ugh, gross.

      I agree with other commenters – point out that (even if they don’t realize it(?)) this kind of policy can be harmful to queer and trans youth; that this and other laws are hurting the rights and dignity of LGBTQ people, and that it’s gonna hurt morale at your company.

      This instance is removed enough that I can’t think of a way to loop in federal civil rights laws (which DO protect LGBTQ people in employment per a 2020 ruling), but good to keep in mind, I guess.

      Last thought – is there an LGBTQ employee group at your work? If there is, they might already be raising holy hell. (I know ERGs at several companies are loudly asking why their companies’ PACs are donating to anti-gay politicians.) See if you can support them and amplify their message.

      If it makes sense for your relationship, think about if there are any ways you can support your LGBTQ friends at work.

      Good luck.

      1. Dasein9*

        Yes! Checking in on folks is really important.

        You may not be aware of this, but there has been an uptick in anti-trans rhetoric, to the point where a prominent anti-trans activist said on camera in the past few days (in the UK) that their aim is to make it hard for anyone to transition because trans people are “damaged” and “every one of those people is basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world.”

        It’s getting scarier.

        I can’t imagine reading about this, then trying to work while my colleagues debate whether people like me should be outed to the very people who are likely to harm them for being trans.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Is this something that pertains to your actual work? Or is this just a random thing with no point?

      1. Angry and sad*

        No, we’re a global manufacturing company. The individual who posts these surveys P

        1. Angry and sad*

          That pesky enter button! I cut myself off- the person who posts these previously worked at the company and left to briefly serve in our state House of Representatives. She returned after one term to a vaguely defined role, something about government affairs. I’m not sure what she does. I think the intent of her posts is to “educate and get employees engaged and thinking critically” but it personally feels like propaganda.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            It sounds self-serving, like she can use the surveys for whatever goal/agenda she is working on. It doesn’t sound like it represents anything about the company.

  99. guyaba*

    Any thoughts on what is an appropriate amount to ask for during salary negotiations? AAM has said “nothing crazy like 20%” but is 5-10% appropriate typically?

    1. Nonnie Today*

      If you are in the US, given the current rate of inflation is 8.3%, your 5 – 10% seems justifiable. In a year with 2% inflation, you might lower your sights to 3% – 6% raise, but for now, I think that’s fine. For what it’s worth, I just got an 11% raise, although it’s because they’re desperate to keep us lest anyone quit before we can finish our gigantic, two-year project coming due in December.

  100. Blueberry Grumpmuffin*

    I’m in a work/life dilemma.

    I was laid off last month from a software engineering job that I held for 7+ years. To be fair, I did have a plan to leave the OldCompany a few more years down the line, but I guess they decided that for me now!

    I’ve been job-searching since then, but it’s been a slog because:
    1. My OldJob was a “staff” position, and not a lot of companies that I looked at are looking for that position (or they did and then closed it while I’m still in the queue, ugh). Which means if I want to up my chances, I’ll need to step down to a “senior” position, which has more competition.
    2. I’m currently in the running at a few places. But a lot of companies that I looked at just don’t interest me.
    3. OldJob involved working with some outdated tech, and I haven’t been keeping up with the latest during those 7 years. So I’m scrambling to catch up, but my heart isn’t 100% into it, because…
    4. Honestly I’ve always wanted to be a full-time artist. But I intended that to be my “retirement job”: something to enjoy and occupy my time when I’ve invested enough earnings to live off passive income. My network in this area is also really tiny, and definitely something to improve on.

    I have severance pay and a rainy-day fund to keep me going for a few months. But I’m just in this weird fork in the road where it’s either compete with other software people for a stable job, or go do that artist thing with no idea if you’ll earn enough each month to pay bills and eat.

    1. Dasein9*

      I recommend reading Captain Awkward #1244, which is about holding down a job-job while making one’s art the center of one’s life and attention. Might help; might not. Either way, that may give you some information about your own fork in the road, and maybe even whether it’s a fork or one of those weird many-cornered intersections that has a hidden option.

      1. Blueberry Grumpmuffin*

        Thank you for the suggestion. I see some good tips in Captain Awkward’s post.

        I’m also pretty burnt-out from OldJob so some of that leaked through in my initial post.

        Anyways, I have some interviews next week, so let’s see how they go…

    2. me, not you*

      If you’re doing software, is there any chance you could part-time that while ramping up the art? I’m a dev (in a startup) and we have have a couple 60% or 80% people. Also, I’m unsure where “staff” would be wrt jr/sr software dev, maybe not every place has that.

      1. Blueberry Grumpmuffin*

        I thought about part-time. I’m not sure where to start searching for that when all the job openings I’ve found so far are for full-time.

        “Staff” is a level above senior. So typically it’s (basic) engineer -> senior -> staff -> manager. I’ve sometimes seen a “principal” level between staff and manager for some places. And other places have sub-levels for each level – think “senior 1”, “senior 2”, etc.

  101. Cat’s Cradle*

    How to best list a time running a storefront on Etsy on my resume? Thanks to covid closures I found myself unemployed last year and started selling materials for my hobby on Etsy. It’s gone well but I’m ready to get back into the workforce. So far my attempts to add it to my resume make it sound so … non-professional. Like a hobby, possibly because that’s basically what it’s been for me. It’s frustrating- I’m good at marketing but bad at selling myself.

    1. Alice*

      What have you achieved? Like, number of views, number of clicks, number of sales, number of return customers? But really, I think it depends what transferrable skills you want to show. Good luck!

      1. Cat’s Cradle*

        Thanks! The metrics I’ve achieved hasn’t been anything stunning, not least because it’s a VERY part-time thing to make a bit while I focus on non-career things. So saying I have a sale every few days is exciting for the amount of effort I didn’t put in but a bit underwhelming on a resume. I have maintained a 5-star rating and had some very happy customers so I guess I can focus on that.

  102. just another bureaucrat*

    Mansplaining

    Has this word evolved from it’s original meaning significantly?
    I’ve always traced it back to essentially a man explaining something, at great length often incorrectly — though I don’t know that that’s a requirement — to a woman who is an actual expert in the subject he’s pontificating on.

    It requires that the explainee is: more knowledgable than the explainer, normally an outstanding expert in this exact thing (and most often a woman…)
    And that the explainer: a man, less knowledgable on that topic, portraying himself as an expert when he is not more of an expert than the explainee

    I’ve now hear it a couple times (from 1 person mostly but someone else too) describing a situation where …I think the explainee didn’t like being told what to do. But the explainee in all cases is FAR less knowledgable. In at least one case the explainer was a woman, and is a literal field leading expert in the exact thing she was talking about. In another a man, but absolutely more knowledgable and was being fairly kind and patient in the explaining and the explainee didn’t know more at all.

    Is this a new way the word is being used or just someone using a word they think will make someone stop telling them what to do?

    1. fine tipped pen afficionado*

      Mansplaining has always been about the tendency of men to assume they know more than the people around them and also that the people around them need to know about the man’s knowledge, and just start explaining something without being asked.

      The “I didn’t ask” part is the crucial part, not the amount of knowledge on either side.

      1. just another bureaucrat*

        Interesting, these would have been cases where the explainee likely hadn’t asked, but was actually doing the job wrong and needed to be told how to do it. Like at some point it was these people’s jobs to tell them what to do. If that’s being read as the crucial part, not knowledge then I can see why someone would decide to use it.

        Maybe there’s a part there when someone (likely me I suppose) can “mansplain” that sometimes your job is to ask, or to get told what to do when you don’t know if you are doing it wrong.

    2. My heart is a fish*

      I would say it’s probably broadened some (in legitimate usage) where condescension can substitute for the knowledge imbalance. However I think the situations you’re describing are just flat out incorrect.

      1. just another bureaucrat*

        Condescension had been mostly where I’d heard the creep on this term but this one seemed pretty outliery to me too.

    3. Policy Wonk*

      From Urban Dictionary:

      Mansplaining
      When a man explains something to a woman in a patronizing tone as if the woman is too emotional and illogical to understand

      When unsolicited advice or direction is given to a woman by a man in a condescending manner. The reasons typically being, the man does not believe the woman is capable of completing the task independently and must need guidance.

      A blend of man and explain. When a person explains something to another about a subject on which the latter is more knowledgeable. Usually the word describes a conversation in which, due to sexist bias, a man automatically assumes he is more knowledgeable than the woman he is talking to.

      There are other definitions along the lines of what you have said – that it is evolving to when someone doesn’t want to hear it or doesn’t want the other person to tell them what to do. But I haven’t seen those formulations yet. I am most familiar with the third one – having people explain to me things in which I am more expert.

    4. Self Evaluation Anxiety*

      I’ve only ever heard it used in the context of when a man assumes (incorrectly) that he knows more about any sort of topic than someone else (typically a woman) and starts explaining it at them in a condescending way.

      I think the explainees in your examples may not know what the word means.

    5. Parakeet*

      To be slightly cynical here, every useful word that gets really popular online undergoes concept creep (some of which is useful, some of which is useless and detrimental) and gets people weaponizing it to win arguments.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This. And yeah the term become useless. Decades ago “lack of communication” became a go-to explanation for things that went wrong. When every problem got labeled as a “lack of communication” the phrase no longer meant anything because it became a catchall or a crutch to avoid digging deeper to figure out what broke and why.

        As to “mansplaining” we will always have people who are lazy with language or who use it as a magic button to get off the hook for their responsibility in a situation. I never thought of it before but this may be a strong driver in changes for our language. We have to think and speak smarter so our points don’t get diluted or even lost.

        1. tamarack and fireweed*

          Welll…. it’s not so black-and-white. Any useful word *will* get misused by someone, and any useful social observation will be turned into a potentially self-serving argument by someone. Doesn’t mean it’s immediately useless. Otherwise all language would ultimately be useless.

          Sure, the most egregious examples of mansplaining will always be the ones where the (female) explainee is vastly more qualified. Rebecca Solnit’s original example was of that type, and so are the most egregious examples that she has since collected, such as “men explain sports to professional female athletes” and “men explain science to female scientists – and often the explainee’s own field”. And it doesn’t have to be professional expertise. It can be (cis) men explaining childbirth to mothers, or the example of the woman who mentioned being loosely related to Marie Curie who was told “it’s actually pronounced Mariah Carey”.

          But even if there is no real expertise gap, just a lack of desire for an explanation it can still be mansplaining – the key quality of mansplaining is the overconfidence of men into their own expertise.

          There’s a handy flow chart that you can find on Google (not putting the link here, to save moderation work).

          1. Lucy Skywalker*

            The Marie Curie thing was ignorance, not mansplaing. The man was probably so uneducated that he didn’t know who Marie Curie was, and likely would have said the same to a man who was related to Marie Curie.

      2. just another bureaucrat*

        Absolutely, it’s kind of why I wanted to know if there was something else potentially going on here that I was missing, or if this was just someone doing the weaponization. I’d assumed it was potentially something until I hear one of the people use it against a woman who was expert in her field (who was her boss’s boss) and then I was like, hold on…I have to go back and look at all of this. The comments are super helpful to make sure I’m not just out of sync.

    6. RagingADHD*

      I don’t think the woman needs to be an expert, but just that it’s something she already knows or any reasonable person would know / could figure out.

    7. Lucy Skywalker*

      I always understood it to mean a man explaining gendered issues to a woman, especially when his male-ness makes him less knowledgeable about the issue. For instance, a man trying to tell a woman that periods aren’t that bad, or that catcalling is a compliment.

    8. SnappinTerrapin*

      I think it’s human nature to stretch the meaning of words conveying criticism and to apply them as an ad hominem shortcut to tell others how bad they think the person being criticized is. The “concept creep” is unique to this particular term. People stretch a lot of descriptive terms far beyond the specific behavior or attitude they were originally intended to describe.

      It’s an impediment to clear communication, and frequently weakens the descriptors when people do use them correctly, as the listener doesn’t know which definition is intended.

    9. just another bureaucrat*

      I seriously appreciate all the comments and the slight differences but overall similarities in how people are defining it. And it also helps make sense of some of the times I’ve heard it applied. I do think this person is pretty out of bounds, even considering fine tipped pen afficionado’s all you need is not to have asked for it to be mansplaining.

      Having a word check and seeing how other people use and hear it is really useful, thank you everyone who responded!

  103. Starchy*

    I need some ideas on how to proceed. I have been applying for jobs since October 2021, at about 3 a week. I’m trying not to jump into something worse than I am in, so I have been very deliberate about the jobs I apply for. So far I have only had 3 interviews and the rest silence. I used AAM advice on my resume and cover letters, had them proofed by a few people and even paid someone to go over them as well. I’m still not getting any interviews and I don’t know what else to do to improve my resume. For background I have 20 years work experience and 6 years in the industry I’m in. I’m at a level just below c suite. Any ideas on what I can do to improve my odds of getting an interview? Obviously I have a blind spot when looking at my resume and I’m not sure how to overcome that…

    1. WellRed*

      Google yourself to make sure there isn’t something weird about your name floating out there. If you have a college graduation date, take it off.

    2. Nonnie Today*

      Unfortunately, it may be ageism. I know someone who was more than qualified but never got the job, she was early 50s. Some interviewers outright told her it was her age. :/

      1. calonkat*

        arrrggh, I hate that. I used to work in the office of a temp agency. I had an applicant who had all the qualifications needed for a job, he had a short work history because the two place he’d worked he’d worked until the owner retired, and he was looking for a place to stay the 10-15 years until he retired. So someone who would take almost no training, was a respected worker in the small town, and who would be a reliable employee for at least 10 years.

        Nope, the hiring manager was only interested in 20 year old males for the position. And they’d leave after a month or two because another job looked more interesting. And the applicant went and worked for someone else for over 15 years.

      2. WellRed*

        Yeah in addition to my other comments does your resume go back 20 years? If yes, lop off some of the older stuff since it sounds like the more recent is more relevant.

  104. Nonnie Today*

    How do I, a young woman, handle a well-meaning but incorrect senior coworker who won’t take no for an answer?

    Let’s say I work in teapot sales for the Northeast, which is our largest, most important market segment. I also live in the northeast. I’m working on something with a very senior coworker, about late 50s, early 60s, who is the director of sales in the Northwest and lives there. The project is about convincing buyers in the northeast, but for various reasons that don’t fit this anonymized analogy, the project has implications for our northwest division which is why he’s on it. He keeps giving me all these strange suggestions to seal this project’s sales deal in the northeast and none of his suggestions are good ones. Even though I tell him this, he just keeps repeating himself until I have to escalate it to another coworker. At one point he wanted our CEO to call up the CEO of the client and appeal to them directly to at least think about buying, which is bonkers in the situation. My senior northeast coworker very firmly pushed back using similar arguments that I did, and also raised his voice but didn’t shout, and finally Northwest Director backed off. Today he suggested we say something that I knew would piss off the client in the meeting and only someone else senior was able to cut him off by saying the exact same thing that I did.

    Are there any turns of phrases or actions I can take to have him listen to me? He thinks he knows how to sell to the Northeast because he’s done it in the Northwest and so so so much of it is different that even I, junior coworker, know his ideas are wrong. For context, like 70% of our sales are in the Northeast and our sales division has more clout in the company than the Northwest, which is the other 30% (let’s just say we don’t sell to SW or SE) and I suspect he’s wistful that he never chose to make the jump to the NE team. He’s been here for 20+ years vs my 3 years, so there’s no point complaining to a boss – I’m looking for ways I can handle him, and others like him on my own.

    1. Researchalator Lady*

      You might try naming his behaviour and seeing what happens next – “I see that you’re repeating yourself.” “Again.”

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I dunno if it’s possible but can he use his methods in his region and you use what you know works in the NE?

      The coworker you escalate to, can you two become allies and back each other up when he is wrong? I am talking about point blank telling the ally coworker that you think the two of you should deliberately watch out for each other.

      You say he has 20 years experience. How much of that was in your region? I am guessing NONE. I think you can work out a short explanation that goes something like, “We need your overall experience. However, we know our region very well and we know what works in our area. Our inputs are based on what we know for a fact works in our area. Please trust us to know what works and trust our inputs to be solid, not frivolous.”

      When he repeats himself you might be able to say something like, “Is there a certain reason why you vested in this point?” Make him think about WHY he is repeating himself.

      Are their other people in your group or is it just the three of you? You might want to talk about how your group will make decisions. I’d suggest voting on the ideas.

      I am surprised that TPTB don’t realize this set up would be a problem. It’s common knowledge that what works in one area of the country won’t work in another area of the country. Usually the higher ups tailor plans for the region. And this right here is exactly why.

      1. Nonnie Today*

        Yeah, the coworker I escalate to is great, but I do want to try handling him on my own, too. I think what you said about validating his experience in the Northwest, but then explaining how different it is in the Northeast, makes a lot of sense. I don’t want to make him feel dumb because I don’t want to make anyone feel dumb, but I might just have to be more explicit.

        Management is very well meaning but a total mess, lol. Thanks for the tips, this will be helpful once I get up the gumption to explain it to him!

  105. PresleyAnn*

    I’m not sure what to do. I took a sales job. I agreed to an outside residential sales position, Monday – Friday with the knowledge Saturdays would be needed here and there. Base salary plus commission. I signed on, did the training, my branch office was great. Manager was great to work with, but I needed to borrow money to get to the branch until I started making commission. My manager offered to see if I could get a temporary transfer to a remote position until I made money. I said I might be interested and would like to get some information about how this team worked and the details of the job, otherwise I could just make it all work for now.

    A week later, both the manager and I are informed I’ve been moved to the remote team with no notice. The new manager tells me I must buy a laptop that morning, thank god I could use one of those pay later apps. I come to find out in the next few days I’m not longer salary plus commission, I’m hourly plus commission. I was expected to use my personal phone for calls but my old manager told me to keep my company phone to use, we’re moving over to a virtual center soon. I can’t afford to buy a head set but I’ll use my kid’s gaming headset if it works. Also, I may have to work late with no notice and Saturday work is mandatory unless both team and personal sales goals are met. I would have appreciated a heads up about all of this and having the chance to say no thank you.

    I think I need to take a new job, but I’m hesitant to as I just started this one. I’ve never lost interest in a job so fast. I loved the outside position but this inside remote is just not going well.

    1. WellRed*

      Stop paying your company so that you can work for them (which is essentially what you are doing by BUYING A COMPUTER ON YOUR DIME!) and with zero notice. Get the fuck out. Now!

      1. PresleyAnn*

        Okay. Thank you, I needed to make sure I wasn’t being dramatic that none of this is okay. I’m working the mandatory Saturday overtime right now. My new manager says we only get paid straight time for the overtime and not time and a half. I’m sure he’s wrong about that but it’s just something else to add to the list.

    2. WellRed*

      I’m sure my comment triggered moderation due to my F bomb. That’s fine. Meanwhile, run run run run run!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Yep. Move on. Just to prove it to yourself look at the commission structure. I am betting there’s not much there in commission. The only part of your story that is missing is the part about the goals are not attainable.
      My top priority would be to get out of there.

  106. Amber Rose*

    Tiny Friday win: asked for responsibility, and was given an action plan for receiving it that includes taking some classes (company paid for) in a widely useful topic. Watch me transform this into a decent raise, which is part two of my evil (?) plan. Mwahaha.

    This is on top of the on-going win of having offloaded sales finally. You have no idea. Seven years I did sales, and I am so glad to be out of it.

  107. Lucy Skywalker*

    I hope this is allowed. I was reading the thread about using they/them as the default pronouns, and I wanted to give my two cents even though the time for replies has expired. In particular, I wanted to weigh in on the person who commented, in reply that the default should be using the pronouns that the person looks like unless they say otherwise, saying;

    “I feel like that logic doesn’t hold true a lot places in society though – heck, the whole disability rights movement is essentially based on getting rid of the idea that just because something is uncommon the default should be to ignore it’s existence.”

    As a person with a disability, here’s my thoughts. Yes, it’s true that we shouldn’t ignore the existence of people who don’t fit the default. HOWEVER, if you need accommodations for your disability, the onus is on you, the person who has a disability, to disclose it. The default isn’t to ask people if they have disabilities and need accommodations, because that’s invasive; just as asking people their pronouns can be invasive. Nor is the default to assume everyone has disabilities that they need accommodations for; and make the accommodations the norm rather than the exception. For one thing, how would that even work? The accommodations that help me could potentially hinder another person with a disability; or vice versa. Each person’s needs are unique!
    So, the solution is for the default to be that everyone has no medical conditions or disabilities that need to be accommodated; unless they tell you otherwise. I sure would love it if the default everywhere were to communicate with language that is direct as possible 100% of the time. But I also recognize that it would undoubtedly create more problems than it would solve. So the onus is on me, the person in the minority, to speak up and advocate for my needs. I fervently believe that it should be the same with pronouns. If you want people to use pronouns for you that don’t match your appearance, then the onus is on you to speak up. I realize that it’s a pain in the tuchus, but since people with disabilities have been doing the same thing for decades, so can you.

    1. Lucy Skywalker*

      Oh, I probably should explain that my disability makes it difficult to understand nonverbal communication; and so I need people to be as direct as possible when speaking to me.

    2. Dino*

      While I hear your point, I’d suggest looking into Universal Design. We could strive to make everywhere as accessible as possible. We should build a society that believes that all people have value, no matter their disability or background or gender, etc.

      No one should have to disclose a disability and ask to be accommodated. The world should be designed with us in mind. And if we do have to ask for access or negotiate conflicting accommodations because of our individual needs, the least we can do as a society is not think less of us or complain about the inconvenience of providing equity to us.

      I think that overlaps with the topic of gender identity. There won’t be a one-rule-always-works solution. But maybe we can work to make fewer needless distinctions between gender and work to make more things neutral, while also allowing people to correct other’s assumptions without static and respect all around.

      1. Lucy Skywalker*

        Unfortunately, Universal Design doesn’t always work that way. For instance, a person who has dyslexia may find it easier to understand instructions that are in pictures rather than words. So, the way to make everything universally accessible is to have everything in pictures rather than words as much as possible, right?
        Not exactly. For me, a person who struggles to understand nonverbal communication, having pictures rather than words would confuse me. There’s no such thing as one size fits all in the disability world.
        Now, I realize that the specific instance I mentioned could be solved by printing instructions in both words and pictures. However, there’s other instances where it’s not so easy. I can’t think of any examples off the top of my head. However, I do know that communication is mostly nonverbal, which means that I pretty much always have to disclose my disability to whoever I’m going to be working with. I explain that I only understand the words that I hear or read, not the words that are implied, and so they have to be as direct as possible with me and not give me subtle hints. There’s really no way around it, especially since I present as nondisabled. If I don’t disclose my disability, people will inevitably communicate with me in a way that I can’t understand, and then blame me for not following through. But it’s not there fault if they don’t know about my disability; so the onus is on me to disclose.
        And quite frankly, I take offense at the notion that it’s a horrible burden for NB people to disclose their status as a minority; but that I have no choice but to disclose my minority status if I am to communicate effectively with others.

        1. ecnaseener*

          You probably know this, but for anyone else curious: this concept is often written about as a thing called “competing access needs.”

          And I definitely think you’re right that there’s a similar thing around gender & really any other axis of oppression.

        2. Glomarization, Esq.*

          You’re using minority and disability as equivalent terms with similar or equivalent requirements for disclosure to third parties. They are not.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Your analogy does not hold, because gender nonconformity, which is expressed in one way by using pronouns that do not necessarily match one’s outward appearance or presentation, is not a disability.

      In addition, gender nonconformity can put people in danger of their safety. Requiring a person in the 2SLGBTQIA+ community to proactively out themselves can be more than “a pain in the tuchus,” but can actually lead to harassment, injury, or loss of life.

      1. Lucy Skywalker*

        I never said that being nonbinary was a disability, and I apologize if I gave that impression. Because of my privilege as a cisgender woman, I hadn’t considered the harassment issue.
        Before, I had always heard and read “everyone should disclose their pronouns/use they/them as the default so that we won’t feel “othered!’” It seemed as though they were saying that being “different” or “othered” was a bad or shameful thing. I found this insensitive, since my ability to work effectively requires that I “other” myself and disclose my difference.
        But since the fear of harassment is a real thing for them, that does change my perspective. Clearly requiring everyone to disclose their pronouns is not the solution, nor is defaulting to they/them; or any other pronouns. Perhaps the solution is to post a sign in the workplace saying “We respect and use everyone’s choice of pronouns. Please feel free to disclose your pronouns if you are comfortable; although there is no pressure to do so.” Or something like that.

      2. Lucy Skywalker*

        Thank you for this perspective. As a ciswoman, I hadn’t considered the harassment thing, but now that you have brought it to my attention, it does change my opinion.
        I had always read and heard it explained as “everyone should disclose their pronouns/use they/them as the default because we don’t want to be othered!” To me, it seemed as though they were saying that it was a bad or shameful thing to be different or othered. It came off as insensitive to me, a person who literally has to “other” myself by disclosing my difference in order to work effectively.
        But now that you’ve mentioned harassment, I recognize that it is a serious issue that needs to be taken into consideration. Clearly requiring everyone to disclose their pronouns isn’t the answer, nor is using they/them as the default; or really, using any pronoun as the default.
        Perhaps a possible solution is to post a sign in a highly visible place that says something like, “We respect everyone’s pronouns and encourage our employees to disclose them if they feel comfortable doing so. However, there is no pressure to disclose pronouns if you don’t wish to. Unless you say otherwise, we will use the pronouns that match your appearance.”
        That way, it’s up to the individual to decide if they want to disclose or not, and sends the message that it is a safe place to do so.

      3. Lucy Skywalker*

        Sorry for posting the same comment twice. For some reason, my first comment didn’t appear until several hours later.

  108. Name Change Questions*

    I have a few questions here, would especially love advice from any readers who are also trans but anyone with advice would be appreciated! (Long comment ahead, I apologize in advance!)

    The long and short of it is: I’m trans, and not in a great job for me (I would never feel safe coming out to anyone I currently work with) Luckily(?) my chosen name is technically a gender-neutral one, and while none of my coworkers will call me anything other than my birth name, I’ve been able to pass it off as a “nickname” that my friends/family call me/I would like to make my legal name someday.

    I’d really, really like that day to be sooner than later, and I’d *also* really like to have a better job sooner than later. Because of how the name change process works in my state… it’s gonna be a bit expensive, and could take a long time to finally finish up. This might mean I’d be applying for jobs while things are underway with that, and I’m not really sure how to approach applications, resumes, cover letters, or (hopefully!) potential interviews! I’ve tried looking online and mainly have found advice for what to do if you’ve already changed my name. This might be helpful in the future, but right now… less so. Here’s some things I’m particularly worried about (I am an excellent worry-er), but also if anyone’s been in a similar situation and has other advice, I’d love to here!

    >First off, since my name isn’t actually legally changed, I’m not sure what’s going to be different from if I was already past this. Am I allowed to just… write my new name on applications, resumes, and the like? Or must that only be my legal name, even if not specified? Can I just write, say, “Taylor Smith” on the top of my resume, or, since it’s not legally my name yet, do I have to do something else like “Taylor (Jane) Smith” (Or would it be “Jane (Taylor) Smith”?) I was once told by a career counselor that I must never, ever put anything other than my legal name on applications or resumes… but… that person gave me some other advice that was pretty bad, so I’m not sure if it’s true. In response to what the counselor told me, my dad claims he never put his technical legal name on resumes, but I think (as another example name) “Timothy Smith” vs “Tim Smith” is a very different situation… or is it?

    >Related to above, I worry about not being able to put “Taylor” on anything and walking into an interview to “Hello Jane Smith”>”Actually, I go by Taylor”. Maybe that’s not so abnormal of a thing, and I’m over-worrying about it? I think part of my issue with that is just… I really would rather *not* walk into an interview with someone expecting a woman, when I’m not that. I’d feel better going into the interview at least without having to have them “reprogram” the name they have in mind for me, even if I have to be careful of what pronouns I’m telling people (in case someone says the wrong thing to my current job when confirming employment or something).

    >If I can somehow write my preferred name on things, how would be the best way to make sure I’m not screwing up my work history? For example: all my previous jobs will have had me listed as say “Jane Smith”. If I apply as “Taylor Smith”, I don’t want to run into situations where my potential new job is calling to confirm my work history, and being told “No, we have no record of a Taylor Smith ever working here.” Should I make a note in my cover letter? Note next to each entry on my resume “Worked here as Jane Smith”? Though I’m really loathe to out myself like that, I also am so early on in my transition (because of the current job situation) that it’s… probably going to be obvious pretty soon that I’m mid-transition if I can find a safer workplace, so it might not be that big a deal as it is to me.

    >Since I might very well end up interviewing after submitting my application for the name change, but before it’s actually granted, when/how would be the best way to tell a potential employer that my legal name will be changing? I know a resume would not be the right place, but would a cover letter? Or make sure I mention it during an interview? I imagine there will be paperwork or W2s or things on their end that will need my legal name, so if I’m in the middle of changing, it might be a very short amount of time that I’m legally “Jane Smith”.

    >The final thing I can think of, which isn’t entirely name-change related, but *is* closeted-trans-person-wanting-out-of-a-transphobic-workplace related: Does anyone have advice for how to talk about my previous job? I definitely wouldn’t rock up to an interview and answer the “why are you leaving your current job” question with “I work with a bunch of transphobic jerks”, but how far does the “never speak ill of your previous job” go? I worry about making *me* sound like the problem if I just vaguely say that I didn’t get along with anyone, but I also don’t want to go too far the other way and make myself seem unprofessional by “trash talking” my old job. And yet, like I mentioned above in regards to being concerned that Potential New Job might call to confirm my employment at Hopefully Future-Former Job and accidentally give the “wrong” (correct) pronouns, for example. Is there a professional way to say “I do not feel safe or comfortable with my current employer knowing my actual pronouns/that I’m trans, so please purposefully misgender/deadname me if you have to call them”?

    (I realize I wrote a dang novel here, but if anyone else has advice for job hunting as a closeted trans person, I’d appreciate any and all help a lot)

    1. Researchalator Lady*

      Ally with advice! I would talk about your previous job by saying something like “It isn’t a great culture fit for me” and, if you can, talking up the contrast: “I see your company has X and Y initiatives; that’s part of what appeals to me about working here, is your progressive vision about Z.”

      I think you could totally style yourself Taylor Smith, period. It would be unusual for someone to insist on calling a current employer before making an offer. Hopefully you are asked for references, which would be ideal. If you suspect they may cold-call previous employers, just matter-of-factly state “I was employed at these positions under my deadname, Jane Smith.” or “under the name Jane Smith” or “under my former name, Jane Smith” or however you prefer to phrase it. If they react badly to that, that tells you something about them and their undesirability as a future employer!

    2. Dragonfly7*

      There was at least one applicant who put their name as Firstname “First name they are actually called” Lastname on their resume for each of the last two hiring committees I served on. Also, many of the job applications I am filling out still ask something like “have you worked under any prior names?” If any of the positions that didn’t ask up front decide they want to verify prior employment, I would let them know “My name is Dragonfly3 in that company’s records.” (I had the same first name but a different middle and last name for several years.)

  109. Spacedog*

    I have over 20 years professional experience in my field. I left my job because of burnout, thinking it was a good time to do so, but I’ve actually been having a hard time finding work.

    In my last job, I had to actually TRAIN peers — with the same title of Principal Level — on basic methodologies, skills and programs that someone in my discipline should know at a Junior level. Yet, they had the same title and salary as I did. It was frustrating and contributed to my leaving. Now, in interviews, I’ve found that those same type of folks with 2 – 3 years experience are rejecting me and giving feedback like I don’t have enough experience, blah blah blah. I *legitimately* have been doing my job successfully for sometimes decades more than the people I would BE REPORTING TO.

    I feel like I’m actually being discriminated against because of my age, even though the feedback is worded in such a way as I don’t have enough experience. But looking up the profiles of folks who have been dismissing me, I see time and time again that they recently graduated — like since 2015. I’ve also noticed in social media that people in the Millennial and GenZ ages completely hate people who are GenX. Which: reality check, we all age every minute of the day. Have some empathy.

    I still have to have a career, but I’m disheartened. Anyone else out there seeing this? Any tips to get a job at my *actual* level? Where are all of the GenXer’s going?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      As someone who hires people, this is full of red flags. Suggesting that someone with less experience than you can’t supervise you is really not true. Number of years of experience does not translate to competency nor does it translate to skill set. More importantly, I can’t do the job of some of the people who work for me and that’s the point- I’m not supposed to do their job- I’m supposed to do mine.

      You seem really bitter and very frustrated. I empathize with that- there’s nothing more soul crushing than job hunting, but I would encourage you to really try to let go this obsession you seem to have with only reporting to and working with people who you deem worthy by the single metric of years of experience. If any of the bitterness in this letter came out in a job interview, I’d be hesitant to hire you on that alone. Of course, I am a millennial and might just be saying is because I apparently hate all Gen X people.

      2. Attolia*

        Completely agree with Another Librarian. Job hunting is frustrating and it’s understandable that you’re tired. But if you’re coming across in the interviews as viewing the potential managers and coworkers as inferior, why would they want to work with you? Even if you have all the necessary experience, social skills are important in the office. And, as a millennial, most people realize these generational groups are overly vague and unnecessary. Especially after seeing all of the think pieces shitting on millennials when we started working. Dont focus on the ages of the other people, managers can be great or terrible regardless of their age.

  110. Dragonfly7*

    How did you, or do you wish, you had used your benefits in the last few weeks before changing jobs?
    Besides being up-to-date on various health checkups, nothing obvious is standing out to me.

  111. Arghhh*

    I have a new colleague who is convinced that I am dating my manager not because she has seen us together, but because she has her wires crossed: both my manager and my boyfriend share the same extremely common first name. How do I politely nip this in the bud? We have a brand new CEO as well and this type of headache is the last thing any or us want or need.

    1. Freelance Anything*

      Just tell her head-on.

      ‘I think we’ve gotten our wires-crossed, and I just wanted clarify in case there’s been any confusion, My Dave isn’t Boss Dave.’

      In a kind of jokey tone, doesn’t have to be serious. Just ‘omg I just had a thought you might think me talking about my romantic getaway with My Dave was about Boss Dave! ‘

      And then consider scattering a My Dave/Boss Dave kind of naming mechanism into occasional conversation. I have like 3 friends who all have partners with the same name, and 2 other friends with the same name as each other, so I’m doing that all the time.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      Or if you don’t want to broach it out of context, another option is next time you’re telling an anecdote about your boyfriend, slip in the phrase “and Dave – my boyfriend Dave, not Boss Dave – ” blah blah blah rest of story.

  112. Givemethewarmweather*

    Has anyone had this happen: You have a phone interview with the hiring manager where salary is discussed and then you get invited for an in person interview with the same hiring manager. You get to the interview to only be told that the salary you was looking for was not doable.

    How did/would you handle this situation?

    This just happened to me and the hiring manager said ” I have an employee that has been here over 15 years and make nowhere close to what you are asking”.

    1. Freelance Anything*

      ‘ I see, when we’d discussed salary over the phone I had the impression we were on the same page over salary. Unfortunately, [the salary you’ve named] is not really something I can work with. It would be a step down/not in keeping with the market value research.’

      Then if there’s genuinely a compromise figure that makes sense for you, you could offer it. Otherwise it’s a ‘it seems we’re too far apart on salary for this opportunity to be a good fit for either of us. Thank you for your time and consideration. Goodbye’

      This could be either in the moment, or as a follow-up email.

  113. June Third*

    Any advice on how to stomach a long driving commute? I haven’t had a long commute in years but my current office is closing so I’ll have to drive an hour to a new office, or 1.5 hours to another office, each way every day.

    I’m not sure I can handle it. My desire to be a homebody has really intensified the last few years even though I’m in the office every day.

    1. Freelance Anything*

      Podcasts/Audio Dramas? (Something like Welcome to NightVale would be my personal choice). Or language tapes? Or a lecture series on an interest you have or an area you want to develop into? If you can make the time enjoyable or productive, it might feel less of chore.

      Also what are your options for moving? Houses or jobs, depending on your priorities. It’s a long commute and I think for quite a few people that would be a dealbreaker. Especially when you have to drive it.

      1. June Third*

        I would gladly move but my spouse’s commute is in the opposite direction, so it’s a bit of a pickle.

        I hadn’t thought of language tapes – that sounds like fun. Also something to “interact” with so I don’t zone out. Thank you!

    2. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      1 hour each way is really long. It basically amounts to 10 (or more) unpaid hours of labor (and driving IS labor) per week!

      Can your company be convinced of 1-2 days WFH?

      When I was driving like that, it was music. But a lot of people like audiobooks or podcasts. That’s really all you can do, because… driving.

      1. June Third*

        Thanks for the suggestions. I am sincerely hoping that once things settle down I can get a few days a week WFH. I’d like to get a feel for how things are handled at the new office before I ask.

        My current worst-case plan if WFH is denied is to bear it for a year, then look for similar jobs that are full-time remote.

  114. Work from home in UK*

    I think I’m too late for this week but just in case. Does anyone in the UK have recommendations for large companies that will allow work from home as a secretary. I currently live abroad and will be returning to the UK to live but at the moment am not sure where I will be located yet as I don’t have strong ties in any particular area.

  115. Jenny Islander*

    Anybody else out there had a problem with somebody who was not your supervisor at all butting in all the time to micromanage you, and your actual boss being so conflict averse that they just let it happen? Seriously, this person takes up my work time lecturing me about what I’m supposed to be doing, then tells me that I need to be more efficient with my time.

    Along the same vein, anybody had their job description stealth changed on them by management? I was hired to assist a person who has a certification to do a thing. I specifically said, at the interview for the job, that I do not have the certification to do the thing. I was trained, on the job, to do more to assist the person who was actually certified, but that was as far as it went. That person left, and a new person took their position who does not have the certification to do the thing. And now my management is reprimanding ME for not knowing how to do the thing. They are telling ME that I have to train myself, on my own time, to do the thing. The thing people go to school to learn how to do. I am looking for other employment, but in the meantime I need scripts for “You are not operating in consensus reality actually” that will not get me insta-fired.

  116. Freelance Anything*

    I posted a comment in the Memorial Day thread about being approached a job in a field I’d recently done a fair bit of training in and my boss being pretty supportive about me leaving so soon into a promotion.

    Well I got it! Had a chat with my would-be manager, references were checked and it’s been offered. I’ve accepted but it’s a fickle industry so I have some anxiety around handing in notice (and cancelling a lot of things I’d been planning). But I do just have to do it.

    I’m aiming to get some more details in writing at the start of next week before I pull that lever. Unfortunately a contract is something with no standard timeframe in this industry, so I could get it on Monday or the day I start or anytime in between. But it might make me feel better.

    Also have some anxiety about my boss’ bosses reactions. They’re decent people and the business’ ‘thing’ is about being very supportive, but there’s no way to escape the fact that my leaving will cause them problems.

    Any hot tips for writing a good handover document would be really appreciated.

  117. NewJobJacob*

    So, I passed the first rounds of interviews and got through with the hiring manager. I have the last panel interview in two weeks and it appears to be with team members and a very senior executive. What would you guess is the main thing they’re looking for in this interview? I understand the hiring manager was reviewing culture fit, so is there a particular set of issues this panel will want to review that I should keep in mind?

    I’m working on my next round of prep and would love any insight on how to best prepare!

  118. ImInSpace*

    Are 15 minute interviews always a bad sign?
    I recently had a first interview at a really prestigious company where there were other candidates sat in the waiting room as well. Compared to the other candidates, I looked like I was the least groomed (my hair is super frizzy and I wore flats – but I thought they were appropriate).
    The interview itself was rather short but they were asking me a lot of questions, and I felt like they were liking my answers. After the interview when self-reflecting, there was a lot of other things I could have said and I do not think I conveyed the message enough that I was the right fit for this role.
    Another thing I was surprised about is that they did not give me specifics about the role, although the job description was well-detailed. Like, they did not say what would be the working hours. Salary was listed in the job ad and confirmed in the interview.
    The interview ended by telling me that I will hear from them in a week. They did not ask if I had any additional questions so I felt super weird asking any.
    From the above how would you interpret this interview? Judging by the other candidates in the waiting area, could it be that they allocated specific 15minutes for each candidates?

    1. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      Was this a first round? Was it with HR?
      It sounds like screening interviews.
      If first round, and you’re speaking with HR more so than the actual hiring manager, then this is on the normal side. They’re just trying to get a sense of who you are.

      1. ImInSpace*

        Thanks for replying! It was first round, with the board of directors and no HR rep
        I will just have to wait and see :)

  119. Marketing Adjacent Roles?*

    hello wise ones – I am so. burnt. out. from my marketing role. Too may deadlines and last minute projects. Anyone have any ideas for positions that would utilize marketing skills and yet be less stressful? Hoping you all will have some outside of the box ideas. Thanks!

    1. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      Marketing is always on the stressful side when it comes to demands and last minute changes. Not to mention that everyone thinks they can do marketing.

      I think maybe it’s your company more so than the duties. Try changing to a company that might be slower paced, such as B2B marketing, or maybe a smaller company. That’s not always going to help of course (you can’t always spot crazy in interviews) but there are definitely places with slower pacing.

      1. Marketing Adjacent Roles?*

        Thanks. I tried that with this role – it’s at a non profit that seemed like it would be slower paced, but no. I fear it’s the marketing, not the company. But I am going to look into your ideas..definitely worth exploring.

        1. CommsQueen*

          Have you ever worked in PR or communications? It’s similar to marketing, but with a much less data and returns oriented atmosphere. I find that bit of freedom shaves off a huge amount of the stress that adds onto burnout in the industry.

  120. PugLoverChicago*

    I’ve been a library technician in a law library for the last ten year. It’s time to find another job. I was a records manager from 1999-2006, and I’d like to get back to doing this. Would it be weird to put this under my current job? The jobs in between weren’t relevant.

    I’m thinking of doing some bulleted skills at the top of the resume as Alison suggested, something about being able to keep my focus on a repetitive cycle of things coming (books or documents), processing, labeling, shelving them, and being able to retrieve them later. Do any of you have thoughts on this?

    I’m really scared to change jobs, but it is clear that I can’t stay where I am.

    1. Dragonfly7*

      If you labeled that section of your resume Relevant Experience AND explained in your cover letter that you would like to return to that work, just like you did in your post, it would make sense to me to include it. You might also say what research/training you are doing or looking into to update your records management knowledge during your job search.

  121. Sharpielove80*

    Hey guys, I got called into a “[my department name] overview meeting” for this Monday and I’m convinced I am about to be either fired or put on a PIP. When I asked the meeting organizers (company president, mainly) what the meeting was, they wouldn’t give me a straight answer despite multiple questions and kept saying “it’s just about things going on.” I’m a good employee that has done great work, but I have made some mistakes in my work. I’m productive most days but certainly not all. I am passionate about the job I do. I need some help/advice as I’m very anxious about it all. Thank you :)

    I have been with the company more than a year now. It’s an in-person five days a week office job (that’s a different story for another day) in a specialized field.

    1. ImInSpace*

      A department overview meeting sounds like they will be assessing your department in terms of workload just in case you’re over/under staffed or they could be offering the team additional training etc.
      I would not think that it’s about one person only but rather the performance of the team as a whole
      Good luck!

    2. PollyQ*

      Not impossible, but I’d be very surprised if it’s about your individual performance, based on what you’ve said. Firings & PIPs don’t usually come out of nowhere, and you’re not saying that your manager has had any actual complaints about you. It’s also my experience that meetings like that are 1-on-1, just the employee and the manager, rather than having multiple organizers.

      However, layoffs, either for you or people you work with, might be what’s happening. Also very possible that it’s some kind of re-org/re-assignment, or perhaps a change of ownership. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this uncertainty — it’s the kind of thing that would make anyone nervous! But I think the odds are pretty good that you’ll still have a job tomorrow evening, so good luck, and hang in there!

Comments are closed.