I resent my employee for being richer and more qualified than me

by Alison Green on January 24, 2023

A reader writes:

I am a first-time manager of a bakery in a small city that has gone through a lot of changes through the pandemic. Our housing and cost-of-living was so cheap that remote workers moved here and now people originally from here can’t buy a house — including me.

Six months ago my bakery hired a new employee, Jane, who is around my age. She’s a great worker, working the shifts no one wants (late nights closing and early morning openings) and because the bakery usually hires students, it’s been great working with Jane because we’re on the same life stage (married, I have a kid, she doesn’t), but I’m finding myself resenting her.

Jane is overqualified to be a cashier at a bakery, I didn’t hire her (the owner did and I wouldn’t have) but she has a masters degree, and her old job was a director in a tech company. She’s given me tips on how to manage people because this is my first time and I can’t help but wonder if she’s going to try to get my job. When I asked her, she said that she doesn’t want to manage people right now. I’ve been gritting my teeth because she’s good at her job and she said to the owner that she’s on sabbatical from her old job for a year or two and I do like her.

But we went to her house over Christmas for a party, and it’s a beautiful new build in an area in town that we could never afford, and her friends (also people who moved from the mainland to our small city) were talking about how much their bigger-city salaries stretch here. They all seem to make more than double than me and my husband combined. And I found out that Jane is on a paid sabbatical from her old job, so she’s getting paid twice for working at my bakery.

Everything has gone up because of inflation, and we went from being able to afford a house in 2019 to now, when we’re barely able to afford rent. There are a lot of people here who are struggling to make rent, and Jane is getting paid twice. I want to fire her but I have no good reason, because she’s good at her job and having someone work the early morning and late nights is hard.

How do I manage her now that I know she’s making more money than I do in a year plus her bakery wage? It’s not fair.

Oh wow, okay.

You’re way off-base here — to the point that you’ve got to rein yourself in really quickly or remove yourself from the management job. Those are your only two choices.

We all have things that we get irrational about. It’s part of being human. But as a manager, you’ve got to be committed to recognizing when that’s happening and actively work to combat it in yourself. You can’t indulge those impulses. It’s management malpractice if you let yourself — it will make you a terrible manager and a terrible employee. That’s the path you’re on right now.

Jane is good at her job, pleasant to work with, flexible with her schedule, and helpful to other employees. And you want to fire her. Read that again.

What you’re proposing would make you the villain of this story, and I’m assuming that’s not who you want to be. But if the ethics alone aren’t enough to convince you, consider your self-interest as well: How would you explain the firing to your own boss? How’s it going to look to your other employees? Hell, who’s going to cover those shifts no one else wants? It’s very likely that firing Jane would backfire on you in ways you’re not thinking about right now. If I managed you and I found out you fired an excellent employee for the reasons you’ve given here, you’d be gone within the week. Even if I just found out you were thinking about it, I’d be unlikely to keep you on because of what it says about your judgment and ability to do your job effectively.

But really, have you thought through what you wrote here? When you see it all written out like that, does it still stand up to your own scrutiny? Because I doubt, for example, that you truly think jobs should be awarded based on workers’ individual financial situations. Do you think you should lose your job if someone comes along who needs the money more?

Look, it sucks that your city is going through what it’s going through. Income inequality is a real problem, and inflation isn’t helping. People are struggling, and it’s bad. But Jane isn’t the cause of that — at most she’s a symptom of forces much larger than either of you — and you’re not the judge and jury that would get to mete out justice even if she were.

It’s okay to feel your feelings. Sometimes you might feel jealous of someone, or resentful, or upset that something doesn’t seem fair. You’re human, you’re going to have those feelings sometimes. That’s not the problem. The problem is that you’re not applying any critical thinking, or ethics, to those feelings at all — you’re just letting yourself indulge them, and when you do that in a job where you have power over other people’s lives, you can very quickly become a Terrible Human. As a manager, you have a moral and a professional obligation to recognize when you’re in danger of that happening and rein yourself in.

You asked how you can manage Jane. You manage her just like you would any other employee: You assess her on her performance and her conduct at work, and that’s it. You also remember what you were hired to do — which is to manage a bakery, not to pass judgment on the financial situations of people who work there. (If you have any doubt about that, talk to your own boss, who I’m confident will clear that up very quickly! But you don’t even need to do that, because I know you already know that at some level. You just need to remind yourself.)

Read an update to this letter. 

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    1. High Score!*

      Yeah, I totally get why you feel that way and it seems like Jane doesn’t realize she’s flaunting it. One thing someone told me when I was jealous of someone was that you need to look at your whole life and their whole life and then would you really trade EVERYTHING (incl family) you have for everything they have? I considered that and have never been jealous since. Whenever I see something I want that’s it if my reach, I think about if I really want it & how can I work towards getting it or if there’s something else about it that I like that’s easier for me to get. Like I moved years ago to an area with lower cost of living so I could get a house. Then I focused on my career and worked my way into jobs that made me happy.

      1. Opal*

        What is Jane “flaunting”?
        There is a good phrase I learned here at AMA. Jane isn’t living her life AT anyone. She’s just living her life. She’s willing to step up and take unpopular shifts. It reads as if she’s sharing her knowledge without trying to take over. What a great opportunity for OP to learn and grow if she’ll take the time.

        1. Escapee from Corporate Management*

          To the last point, OP, be thankful that you have an experienced employee who is actively sharing information that will make you better at your job. The fact that you see that as a sign that Jane wants your job is not rational. Why should she help you in that case? Take it for what it is: an opportunity for you to improve. Don’t reject that!

          1. Lizzo*

            +1 to this. I worked a frontline retail job for a couple years because 1) my full-time work situation suddenly became awful, and 2) I had a successful freelance gig, and retail allowed me to continue doing that freelance work. Our manager was a nice guy but inexperienced. I had well over a decade in a traditional workplace plus prior retail experience. I was able to share my expertise with my manager to help him get better at his job, which was a benefit for everybody, and which he deeply appreciated. I definitely didn’t want his job–I wanted to clock in, do my work (which I enjoyed), and clock out, and then go do my freelance stuff (which I LOVED).

          2. DivineMissL*

            I agree overall with Alison’s response. Except – OP says, “She’s given me tips on how to manage people because this is my first time”. I don’t know that the manager needs to be discussing HR issues with a cashier. I mean, I get that OP is inexperienced, and it sounds like a small operation, but…that struck me as inappropriate. A manager can seek advice from the owner, or another manager, but not a co-worker of the people being managed.

            1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

              It’s a slippery slope, sure – but the now-cashier seems to have management experience that could help LW and is on sabbatical, i.e. plans to return to her tech job. She’s obviously not after LE’s job. This changes the situation somewhat.

            2. Smurfette*

              It’s quite possible that the cashier is observing workplace issues and not being told about them by the manager. For example, if someone is late, rude to a customer, or doesn’t follow food hygiene protocols, those things would probably be apparent to everyone.

              1. Properlike*

                This is what I assumed. Also, probably not a lot of places to have conversations in a bakery. As a cashier, Jane probably overhears (and notices) a LOT.

              2. I am Emily's failing memory*

                Yeah, I assumed it was things along the lines of, “Here’s a system that might help make it easier for you to keep track of workers’ scheduling requests,” or, “Having a cheat sheet available for the night staff to consult when you and the owner aren’t around would really help and save us needing to call one of you as much.” General “how to keep things running smoothly for the business as a whole” tips, rather than advice on managing specific employees like, “You should move Steve to another shift,” or “You should give Sylvia’s hours to Regina.”

                1. Momma Bear*

                  This is how I read it, too. Jane is just sharing knowledge, not aiming for OP’s job or actively managing the crew.

                  Jane could be on sabbatical for a number of reasons and it may be that she does the bakery job because she burned out but wants to feel productive somewhere. Or maybe she has debts that aren’t OP’s to know about (I know people who got into serious medical debt and took a second job just to pay for that). Etc. Whatever the reason, Jane was hired and now OP needs to find a way to work with her/manage her.

                  It’s human to be jealous sometimes but to act on that envy and *fire* someone for being better off (in the ways you know of) or for having affluent friends is…really terrible. Appreciate what Jane brings to the table, not what kind of table she has a home.

                3. Lavender*

                  Yeah, there are definitely situations where it could be inappropriate, but I don’t see a problem with it as long as they’re not discussing things like other employees’ performance issues. I think it’s fine for an employee to share organizational/logistical advice with their manager, especially if the employee has some management experience.

                  That said, Jane may want to dial it back on the advice if OP is giving clear signals that it’s unwanted.

              3. Donna Roberts*

                OP should frame this help as a genuine, cost-free education that might only be gained through a master’s program or years of experience. Instead of being irritated, she should be grateful and lean in to learning. I know, easier said than done. But if OP can shift her mindset and self-talk herself into appreciation, she might take this as the huge gift that it is.

            3. KayDee*

              I didn’t read it as discussing HR issues. It could be innocuous topics like “we end up with a lot of call outs when the schedule is posted last minute, if we publish a week more ahead of time, employees would be better able to plan their schedules.” There’s a lot of people management/leadership advice that can be traded back and forth without hitting inappropriate topics.

              1. MigraineMonth*

                Yeah, my current manager is brand-new to managing people, and I’ve given them a couple of tips (primarily “check out AAM, it has great advice”). I would not be happy at all in a management role, so I’m certainly not angling for their job, and we don’t discuss other reports.

                Hierarchy means that they get to make the final call, not that it’s inappropriate for me to share suggestions.

          3. RS*

            This! OP I wonder if it would help you to step back and view the circumstances of Jane’s *employment at the bakery* separately from the negativity you feel about her presence as a wealthy newcomer in your community. If you do that I think you’ll see that while Jane might be part of the change that has made real estate in your town too expensive for the locals, she’s probably *not* a threat to you in your position at the bakery, even though she’s got more management experience than you currently have.

            Here’s what I mean: from the bakery owner’s perspective, Jane is a great but only temporary solution to a labor need she has. Jane’s smart and reliable, and the owner will be glad to have her working as a cashier for as long as she’s willing to do so. But I imagine the bakery owner is well aware that Jane’s not going to stick around forever, or even for several years. It would be foolish to invest time & energy training Jane to manage the bakery – e.g. the ins and outs of supply sourcing, and all of the other non-trivial things that the role entails. That’s the reason hiring managers often pass on candidates they deem to be overqualified for the role – they assume they won’t stick around, and so they’re not worth training. The cashier role, on the other hand, is low-stakes for the owner so it’s all right if Jane doesn’t stick around forever. Consider: if Jane and her partner decide to have kids, or if she decides she needs more money or benefits than she can get at the bakery, or if she just gets bored after a while, she’ll quit. You don’t say how long you’ve been working at the bakery, but you’re a local and I imagine that in the bakery owner’s eyes you’re a better long-term bet than Jane is.

            If Jane is still around in 2-3 years (which is pretty unlikely imho) and her life circumstances have changed such that it seems like she *will* continue on indefinitely at the bakery and *would* like to have more responsibility than a cashier role, then the story might change. But by then you’ll have changed – you’ll have years of success at managing the bakery under your belt. But for now you’re the sure thing in the bakery owner’s eyes, while Jane is a a good short-term solution for the cashier role that’s otherwise hard to fill.

          4. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

            Also, OP has little reason at all to think Jane is after her job. Jane is taking a sabbatical and working at a bakery, which to me suggests that she was feeling burned out and needed a break to do something less mentally stressful than what she was doing, and her work was valuable enough to her employer that they were willing to let her have the paid sabbatical rather than risk her burning out and losing her skills completely. And since that appears to be the case, Jane is unlikely to want to try to take on the more demanding job of managing anyone during a time when she is seeking respite.

        2. bamcheeks*

          I do think “talking about how much their bigger-city salaries stretch” counts as flaunting! I get how that’s a very normal conversation that wealthy people have, especially at parties, and I fully admit I have had it myself, but I also support anyone who overheard it think I was a smug rich bitch.

            1. bamcheeks*

              Sure, but it was her party. I think you take responsibility for what happens she. You’re the host.

                1. yala*

                  I think a good host should at least try to direct the conversation away from areas that might be uncomfortable for or exclude other guests. And talking about money at a party seems kind of gauche

                2. The Real Fran Fine*

                  @yala it’s not a reasonable expectation that a host at a party will be able to police every single conversation that takes place. People go off in small groups and chat, they move around to different areas where there isn’t always a “monitor” that can redirect, etc. Jane hasn’t done anything wrong and shouldn’t be judged based on the discussions of her friends that she wasn’t even involved in (if she were, I think OP definitely would have mentioned it).

              2. No Annual Contract*

                WHA?!? Jane is accountable for what was said at her party? I didn’t realize that as a host it was my responsibility to police conversations. I am truly shocked at some of the responses here trying to blame Jane. Wow.

                1. Gato Blanco*

                  Seriously. Anyone asserting that party hosts should listen in on and police conversations that happen at the party is WAY out of line.

                2. Worldwalker*

                  At a Christmas party I was at last month, the host was busy with greeting people as they arrived, trying to keep the food table stocked, and redirecting lost people to the bathrooms. Monitoring all the conversations (spread over four or five rooms!) was not going to happen.

                  And it’s not the host’s job anyway. This is an adult get-together, not a kindergarten.

                3. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                  Yeah, there are some people who are trying to make Jane responsible for things that aren’t her responsibility and even to make it seem like she should be ashamed of or apologize for things that she has no actual reason to be ashamed of or apologize for.

                4. Jasper*

                  Even at a formal dinner party, if there’s any more than 6 guests or so, it is completely physically impossible for a single host to even hear all conversation, never mind redirect them. And really it’s iffy above 4.

              3. The Prettiest Curse*

                But if you host a party, you’re not responsible for everything that people say or do at said party. Jane did not magically foresee what her friends would say and still invite them anyway so she could enjoy hurting the OP’s feelings.

              5. StressedButOkay*

                You can’t expect Jane, or anyone else, to police what their guests are saying. (Unless of course it’s something horrible!) That’s on the guests, not Jane.

              6. bamcheeks*

                If I invited a colleague to a party and my friends talked in a way that made them feel belittled and alienated, yes, I would consider that my social failure. It’s not about being responsible for every word said, it’s about being a hostess who invited people because I like them and I want them to have a good time.

                1. skadhu*

                  Unfortunately people whom you liked and trusted and thought you understood for years can one day come out with something absolutely appalling with no prior indications of their thinking. Happened at a party I was at (and I was on the receiving end of the comments). That’s not on the host (and would be even less so if they’re not there to witness). I can’t imagine even thinking of blaming my host for what was said. The best a host can do in those circumstances is make sure that person isn’t invited to future parties (which they did).

                2. LoJo*

                  Let’s be realistic…LW isn’t exactly a reliable narrator of the holiday party. LW had a bias before anyone utter a single word. Plus these people who were just enjoying an holiday cocktail party are the same people sustaining this quaint little town! They’ve brought big city money into the town. They’re paying big taxes. They’re likely supporting this bakery.

                  LW needs to evaluate how “these people” are positively impacting the town. Most small towns are shriveling up. Family owned bakeries are closing up everywhere. LW needs to keep their eye on the big picture.

                3. yala*

                  “Plus these people who were just enjoying an holiday cocktail party are the same people sustaining this quaint little town! They’ve brought big city money into the town. They’re paying big taxes.”

                  Ok, so you’ve just described gentrification. They’re not “sustaining” the town if their being there prices longtime residents out.

                  I’m definitely not crazy about this “horses and sparrows” kind of mindset in this comment.

                4. bamcheeks*

                  @skadhu— sure, I am not saying that I know I’m advance that everyone of my friends will be perfect and never put their foot in it! I’m saying that if I invited someone to a party and they were alienated and excluded by my friends, I’d be embarrassed and apologetic. I wouldn’t be saying, “well, *I* didn’t say that, so I’m not sure why you’re mad at me.”

                5. Properlike*

                  It sounds like the guests were just talking, and some of what they said was inadvertently hurtful to LW but would not have been out of step for the conversation if LW hadn’t been there.

                  The way you’re characterizing this, as if other guests set out to intentionally “belittle and alienate” AND that Jane somehow led the charge, should have known, or is wrong for not apologizing after the fact… is just completely out there. Had they been talking about their ski vacations and sneering at LW when she said she couldn’t afford to go on a ski vacation, well… that would be a cartoon, but *that’s* where Jane would have to step in.

                  What’s described here is a cultural mismatch. Someone feels out of place. Happens all the time. Childless people at a kid’s birthday party, wine-drinkers at a midwestern barbecue, me at a gathering of marathon runners. I don’t assume people are belitting me personally by having conversations about diapers, non-artisanal beer, or training plans. But then, I also understand that the world is generally “unfair.”

                  Add on that LW is already hypersensitive about Jane, it doesn’t surprise me that the hypersensitivity carried over to Jane’s friends.

                6. bamcheeks*

                  I think impact is as important as intent, and I think if “don’t talk about the benefits of gentrification in front of the people suffering from it” isn’t a widely understood value, it should become one.

                7. skadhu*

                  @bamcheeks Replying here because we got too much nesting and I can’t reply to your reply to my comment….

                  And what you describe is exactly what should happen, I agree. My challenge was to the assumption that Jane would know what was said, given that we don’t know if she was present to hear it (it’s easily possible not to hear all convos at a party) and no one actually reported it to her at a later time. The OP said it was talked about by Jane’s friends, not Jane herself, so we don’t know if she heard it or was told about it.

                8. Lavender*

                  If my party guests were making another guest feel uncomfortable, I’d for sure feel bad about it and would reconsider inviting those friends to future gatherings. But I’m also not sure if there was much Jane could have done in the moment–especially if she didn’t know about the discomfort they were causing until after the fact, if at all. (And I’m not sure if there would have been a tactful way for her to approach OP about it later.)

                9. Rowerrabbit*

                  Based on how the OP is reacting, this could have been a super quick couple of sentences between a few people standing in the kitchen outside of Jane’s hearing. Or even an aside like “yeah it’s great we have the space now for a driveway when we used to have to pay for a garage.” It’s a little much to assume it was this big drawn out thing that everyone was aware of.

                10. Crazytown*

                  If this holiday party is a dinner party for 10, seated around a common table, then absolutely, Jane can call out/redirect/disagree with offending comments. If the holiday party is a cocktail party with 20 conversations occurring simultaneously, then to blame Jane for comments is wrong.

                11. Knitsocksmakesense*

                  Hearing people speak about how their salaries stretch farther is not deliberately belittling or alienating. If the guests were saying “I can’t imagine on trying to live on $100k a year” or “we are lucky this area is so poor” then that’s one thing, but commenting on how much farther your city salary stretches in a different location, not so much.

              7. Kim*

                That is a frankly bizarre stance. I mean, if underage drinking occurs then you as a host needs to step up. Overt racism? Yes. Talking about money? No.

                1. jj*

                  That’s basically saying that classism is not worthy of attention the way racism is. I don’t agree. The OP can be wrong about some parts of this story and still also have experienced classism at this party.

                2. Irish Teacher.*

                  I don’t think classism is less serious than racism, but I also don’t think somebody talking about how much cheaper it is to live in the LW’s town than in the big city is exactly classism. It’s privileged, sure, but not the same as say talking down to the LW about her job or implying she is stupid because she doesn’t have a masters.

                  It sounds to me like they were just talking about how great it is to have a lower mortgage and while yeah, gentrification is an issue and it’s a bit tone-deaf to talk about how cheap the area is in a group where you don’t know everybody’s salary, I don’t think it really reaches the level where somebody would feel the need to intervene.

              8. Curmudgeon in California (they/them)*

                WTF? No, no, no. The host is not responsible for the content of all the conversations at their party.

                That’s just a ridiculous expectation. Even the nicest people can be jerks to some people’s perspectives, especially if they already have class/financial resentment like the LW does.

              9. Zap R.*

                Idk, when I host a party, I’m floating between rooms and if I’m not, I’m in the kitchen. I think people are projecting a whole lot of stuff onto Jane here.

                1. The Prettiest Curse*

                  As someone who plans and coordinates events for a living, even if you are hosting for 15-20 people, it’s a lot of work and you are likely to be running around for most of the event. You simply cannot listen in on every conversation. If you are aware of bad guest behaviour or a conversation that is making someone uncomfortable, you should of course tell your guests to stop or apologise if you’re made aware of it after the fact. But often hosts or coordinators simply aren’t aware of this kind of thing unless someone tells is about it.

                2. Willow Pillow*

                  I went to an hybrid conference last year, as an online attendee, and the in-between-sessions music included a song with racist and misogynist language. The org putting on said conference had no idea and did seem to take an appropriate level of accountability. I’m not sure what blaming them would accomplish.

              10. Susannah*

                Oh for heaven’s sake – she’s supposed to ask her big-city friends to refrain from saying anything about how their salaries stretch further? That’s a level of sensitivity that would make me un-invite LW, not my wealthier friends.
                And this isn’t about Jane or her friends behaving badly. It’s about LW being jealous. And look, jealousy is a very normal human thing! Just recognize it for what it is… the old green monster … so yo can deal with it.

          2. Alucius*

            Yeah, for sure.

            I imagine that Jane probably doesn’t intend to “flaunt” anything, but just hasn’t thought about OP’s financial situation and the struggles of the long-timers in this area with exploding real estate prices and the like. It’s likely more ignorance than malice, which doesn’t make it any less grating for OP

            1. Cyborg Llama Horde*

              Yeah. I think OP needs to not go to those parties. I haven’t decided if I think there’s potentially any room for her to say, “Actually, I had a really hard time at the last one, because your social set is the people who are pricing my social set out of housing, so thank you, but I’m going to sit this one out,” or if that’s a feeling she needs to keep to herself/her own friends and deal with herself. But her reaction is very understandable and also that’s a situation she needs to not put herself in.

              1. StressedButOkay*

                Honestly, the easiest route would be to simply say either she’s busy or to say that, as a new manager, she’s realizing she can’t socialize like that with folks she manages.

                1. yala*

                  Agreed. There’s nothing to really be gained by telling Jane any of that, but it would make things uncomfortable at work.

                2. Momma Bear*

                  This. Or at least doesn’t socialize in their homes. When I was working for a friend’s company, we had to separate our social and professional lives.

                3. Jules the 3rd*

                  This, though OP will need to make sure she’s consistent about this and not go to parties / socialize with the other people she manages too.

                  OP: Yeah, gentrification and rising rents are rough. Can you talk to the owner about raises for everyone, or profit sharing? You can base it on “with the increase of new people, everyone’s looking to hire, and if we don’t give good raises, we will lose our people.”

                  Several of my friends have been priced out of my area, and my family just got lucky that we were able to buy a decade ago.

              2. I am Emily's failing memory*

                Good lord, no, she should not tell the person she manages that she blames people of the employee’s ilk for her own cohort’s inability to buy houses. She’s a manager, and while she may feel like she has less social status/power than her wealthier subordinate, she does still have real power over her day to day work life at the bakery. Telling someone you manage, “I must decline your invitation because I blame you and your kind for the housing crisis,” is super hostile – what is the employee supposed to do with that information? Just make a mental note that boss resents her and there’s nothing she can do about it? When you’re a manager you can’t prioritize your own emotional catharsis over your professional obligations to your staff.

                1. Lavender*

                  I agree with that. It’s fine for OP to decline future invitations, but I don’t think it would be a good idea to go into specifics about why in this case.

                2. MigraineMonth*

                  True. It would be a risky move if they were just coworkers or OP was the report; going into all that with one’s own report isn’t okay.

            2. MYOB*

              So what is she supposed to do, switch into different clothes because someone might be upset because her clothes look like they cost more? Send back her degree because OP doesn’t like that this specific woman is more educated than her?
              If you cannot feel good about who you are because someone else has or is doing something then you gave a bigger problem than jealousy. It isn’t someone else fault that you don’t like yourself.
              As someone who throughout my life was and is routinely told things about myself that are very much plusses make a person uncomfortable so they can’t hang out with me, this is a you problem. And it literally only affects the people with that problem- I have plenty of awesome women friends of every variety who are cool with who they are and I’ve had people who I’ve gotten to know who later are like wow I didn’t think you’d be so nice because you’re very pretty. Mmm yeah, great. And I’ll tell you honestly that crap colors my view of that person. Frankly it seems that people who don’t want to be judged for who they are do not seem to mind harshly judging and criticizing others who they think are doing better than them in some way. And the thing is it’s all optics, judging a book by its cover. So over this crap.

              1. Erin*

                +1 to this!

                Several years ago, I hired a pediatrician to work the odd hours that I could not find staffing for at a retail store. She had recently moved to the area, and she wanted to find some friends, which is hard when you are an adult! She was fantastic. She worked all of the non-desirable shifts, and was an absolute asset when a customer fainted in the store.

                She was a wonderful and dedicated employee, just like Jane is.

                Conquer your jealousy and stop judging Jane for her successes.

                1. MYOB*

                  Yes- OP has the opportunity to use Jane as possibly a sounding board, but certainly inspiration and if she’s like oh I don’t need that from her, then you have nothing to be jealous about.
                  Thankfully I figured out when I was much younger- and totally disadvantaged, I must say. Neither parent would even pay for my community college courses at 16. So I got a job and paid for it myself and I had to stop for Year because my mother needed the money. Then I went back and graduated- but anyway instead of being jealous I realized I can have the things that I want by making decisions for myself about what I wanted and then working on the goal. There is no magic pill.

              2. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                Thank you! I am so frustrated that so many replies seem to suggest that Jane is somehow awful for just existing in circumstances that OP envies. I can understand OP’s overall frustration and even jealousy as natural human emotions, but they are on her to deal with and resolve. It is not on Jane to conceal or avoid any boon in her own circumstances so ensure OP does not feel any jealousy. OP is in the wrong here, but I do not see that Jane is even remotely in the wrong based on the information we have.

            3. ferrina*

              Agree. I’ve been on both sides of this- really poor when I was younger, and now have a high paying corporate job.

              Jane’s not living her life AT anyone, but she is part of the societal issue that is hurting LW. The things that Jane is benefiting from (salary stretching in a small town) is hold LW back. This is where Check Your Privilege comes in. Jane + co. sound like they were happily celebrating things that work for them without recognizing when they are harming someone else- yes, it would be good if Jane were cognizant and sensitive to both sides of the issue.

              That said, this ultimately isn’t a Jane issue. It’s a societal issue. And LW would be within bounds to say “Actually, it’s interesting you should say that. There’s a flip side to that….” This needs to be said calmly and maybe a little sadly (not angrily). It’s okay to point out societal problems. Sure it’s not going to make you the life of the party, but parties shouldn’t be held at other’s expense.

              1. Xer*

                So we cant celebrate and discuss our life experiences because some of us are in another income bracket?
                You people are quite frankly, ridiculous.

                2. TechWorker*

                  …that’s not what was said. It’s a very standard ‘read the room’ scenario. Admittedly Jane’s friends may not know anything about the OPs financial situation, but yea, if you’re talking about money, particularly about having/spending lots of it, you do need to be aware of your audience.

                4. Nina*

                  You can, but if you don’t want to be a jerk, you try to be sensitive to the fact that some of your life experiences are things you were enormously privileged to have, and not everyone has the opportunity to have.

                  e.g. My parents were/are wealthy enough to let me live with them rent-free when I was in college, so I could use the wages from my summer and weekend jobs to cover tuition and save a little. This was one of the factors that allowed me to at one point spend multiple weeks touring a foreign country – a country where many people that actually live there can’t afford to spend multiple weeks touring around. If I’m in DC talking to a drugstore cashier about how great the [thing] is in [Santa Clara, CA] and how they haven’t really experienced [thing] until they’ve experienced it in [Santa Clara], I have to be aware that I was privileged to have that experience, the people I’m talking to may not have been, and I need to be sensitive about how I’m expressing myself because otherwise I am the jerk.

                5. Wat, no sugar?*

                  Seriously! I can’t believe anyone is placing blame on these party guests for a perfectly innocent conversation. OP should think about therapy. No matter what your status, there will always be someone who has more. I’m shocked that she even thinks her situation merits a letter to AAM!

                6. bamcheeks*

                  Oh mate, so fragile! Literally the only consequence here is “some people might think you’re an asshole”. You can survive that. Look, you already are surviving it, right here.

                7. TootsNYC*

                  this situation is actually why you aren’t supposed to discuss money at social gatherings.
                  Because it’s hard on the peopel who make less. (It can be hard on the people who make more.)

                  Money creates strata in society, but our social gatherings are supposed to be among equals.

                9. Dave the Trucker*

                  How would LW saying what her life experiences are disallow others from doing the same thing? It’s ridiculous to think that all party conversation has to be high-fiving each other and no one is allowed to bring a different angle to the topic at hand.

                10. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                  I agree with you there! There is some ridiculous effort being made to somehow make Jane’s behavior wrong when she has done nothing wrong.

              2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

                > this ultimately isn’t a Jane issue. It’s a societal issue.

                Yes, and Jane can’t change ‘society’ by herself but she can influence her own behaviour.

                I’m always a bit taken aback when people (not you ferrina specifically) talk about issues that are “structural” or “societal” and so on, and absolve individuals of responsibility to change anything about the way they go about their own lives, because they can’t fix it by themselves. Throwing one’s hands up and saying (metaphorically I guess) “oh well, I can’t fix any of this so I’m just going to go along with it” doesn’t seem better.

                1. ferrina*

                  Totally agree. Society is just a collection of people, and if everyone denounces responsibility, nothing will change. It changes when a lot of individuals all decide that they want their group to change, and they do what they can to facilitate that change (generally without destroying the foundation of the group or destabilizing large institutions). The large-scale solution is complicated and, quite frankly, political, so I’m trying not to get into it here.

                  In my everyday life, I do frame things with certain terminology in context to certain events. I have my own thoughts and opinions on how to solve these issues, and I do advocate for that.

                2. bamcheeks*

                  And like, it’s accurate to say that you personally can’t change societal issues! But if that’s out of your control, so are the feelings of people impacted by that! It’s always this mentality of, “privileged people can’t help the harm that their privilege does, but less privileged people sure have a DUTY to be gracious about it and recognise the inherent well-meaning goodness of those people who are benefitting from it!”

                3. Curmudgeon in California (they/them)*

                  So Jane should sell her house, put on rags, and take a vow of poverty because the LW can’t afford a house in her town now?

                  Jane can’t fix society. She should not have to drag herself down because someone can’t bring themself up due to the problems with our society.

                  One of the communities that I am part of has a definite “poverty consciousness” thing, and lots of people think you can’t be a real XXX unless you are poor. It’s BS. What you do for your day job doesn’t have anything to do with how well you do at XXX. Yes, working for unethical companies tends to make your ethics a little suspect, but sometimes a job is just a job, not an ethics statement. Having money (i.e. working for more than minimum wage) is not a disqualification for excellence in XXX. But a lot of people in the community have that hangup, so I just don’t talk about my finances and the fact that I work in tech instead of as a retail clerk or a barista.

                  Yes, I know that swarms of tech workers gentrify a lot of places. I live in a mixed race neighborhood in a high tech city. I bought my house from a person of my same race, so it’s not like I’m gentrifying anything by pushing out a poorer, minority person. So it is not so clear cut.

                  When people move in to a dying town and revitalize it but also gentrify it, there is a mixed bag of results. There is more money in the town to sustain its businesses, but a number of employees suddenly are priced out of the real estate market. It’s never all good or all bad.

                  Holding Jane responsible for the ills of society is putting a hell of a burden on Jane, and one that she didn’t actually ask for. Yes, she should probably be aware of the structural problems that the move-ins are causing, but that is not a thing that you can insist on.

                4. MigraineMonth*

                  For me, recognizing when a situation is societal is an important step to understanding where to put my energy/resources/advocacy. Personal actions often fall short when trying to fix structural problems.

                  For example, after learning the structural issues that mean the majority of “recyclable” plastics can’t actually be recycled, I don’t spend my time washing out my peanut butter jars. It’s much more effective to support legislation that forces companies to switch to other types of containers.

                  Changing zoning rules and repealing NIMBY legislation is going to have a much greater effect on property prices in OP’s community than any individual person deciding not to move there from the big city for altruistic reasons.

                5. Me ... Just Me*

                  So …. the solution is for Jane and her “ilk” to make unsound financial decisions (like buying a house in a HCOL area rather than a LCOL area, where their money goes farther) for themselves in the name of “the common good”? That does not make sense to me, at all. Let’s discount entirely the work and resources that Jane put forth to get that higher salary in the first place (and a Master’s degree is WORK) in favor of maybe, somehow, positively affecting some unknown person who made different life choices and therefore doesn’t have the monetary resources, now.

                6. JustSomeone*

                  What is Jane supposed to do here, though? Live way below her means in a cheap rental apartment? Buy a cheaper house? Assuming there’s a housing shortage, either of those options displaces folks who can’t afford more. Buying a big, new house that’s in her price range leaves more affordable housing stock for others. Should she just not be allowed to move to somewhere she can afford to live comfortably? What’s the “right thing” for her to do?

                7. ScifiScientist*

                  Absolutely agreed that absolving gentrifiers of their societal impact and responsibility to fix that is not acceptable. Even if they are just living their lives they can (and should) have a responsibility to support societal solutions.

                  As someone who part-owns a house in a high COLA area, I actively support building new dense housing in my neighborhood because that is one of the solutions to high housing costs.

                  Based on the submittal we don’t know that Jane isn’t doing this. While gentrifiers don’t have to dress in sackcloth and hide their lives, they can absolutely take the time and freedom that wealth buys to work towards societal fixes for their less fortunate neighbors.
                  For instance:
                  Advocating for and supporting rent control and tenants rights in local government and elections
                  Advocating for and supporting restrictions in whole-house/apt. Airbnb proliferations, which has been shown to increase housing costs
                  Participating in community support like food pantries and community fridges
                  Advocating for changes to eviction laws and regulations that keep people in housing and don’t contribute to increased homelessness

                8. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                  That’s ridiculous. Nothing Jane has done is contributing to any societal issues. She has a job where her skills are valued enough that they let her take a paid sabbatical. She is not taking that job away from OP or anyone else, because if anyone off the street could do it, or even just anyone with a masters degree, they would not pay her to be on the sabbatical. This is worth it to them. She has a masters degree, but she likely has/had to deal with the costs of that. She is working at the bakery, but she is taking on shifts no one else wants and that OP says she would have a hard time finding coverage for, so she is not taking the work away from other people who want it. She is living in a lower cost of living area where she can get more for her money, but she is also living and spending money in that area, which is a boon for the economy. Nothing Jane is doing is a problem.

                9. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                  @ScifiScientist

                  We have no information though from this post that Jane is not doing other things to support the community. She is not working full time, so she could be volunteering. She may come from a more liberal area and this could be a conservative small town where she might help change the voting to bring about greater social change. OP does not tell us about any of these things, just one party where some friends made some comments on the cost of living, and we see posts on here all the time about people wanting to telework so they can move to a lower cost of living area, so we can hardly judge her for that alone.

              3. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                Jane is not actively hurting anyone. She is making the decisions that are best for her and her family and life. Her previous employer values her enough to allow her to take this paid sabbatical, so clearly she has skills that make it worth their while to give her the chance to avoid burnout. She did not take a degree away from OP by getting her degree. And stretching the cost of living in a small town? She, like many other people, is moving to a lower cost of living area and they are bringing their salaries and purchasing power into that area too, which is usually an economic boon for those areas. So no, I do not think Jane needs to check her privilege.

          3. Comma Queen*

            OP writes it was Jane’s friends who said that. We can’t tell from what’s written if Jane was also saying the same thing or cringing internally. Given how frustrated OP is, it’s hard to know if OP would have even noticed the difference. When I’ve been that jealous, it’s hard to notice anything that contradicts how I think about the other person.

            1. bamcheeks*

              I don’t think it matters whether Jane was involved, cringing internally or whatever. If I had a party and half my guests were saying awful ignorant things which were offensive to my other guests, I would take responsibility for that offence.

              1. EPLawyer*

                Really? Now we are policing normal talk about finances? If someone says a racial slur that is one thing. but someone casually talking about how their salary goes farther is not something that the host needs to speak up about.

                I think this is more that OP is looking for signs to be offended than anything offensive was said.

                1. bamcheeks*

                  “Normal talk about finances” is extremely context dependent! And it’s wild that you immediately talk about racism as something people are allowed to be zero-tolerance about, but not wealth inequality as if wealth inequality isn’t one of the main ways racism is enacted.

                2. bamcheeks*

                  (Also I don’t think it’s about “policing”, so much as accepting that not everyone has to think nice things about you all the time! I am always shocked by people who want both to benefit from wealth and also think it’s not fair when people resent them for that wealth. I promise you can survive people with a lot less money than you being angry about inequality!)

                3. ferrina*

                  Context is important. We’ve all met/heard about that CEO that complains about their second vacation home in the hearing of their workers who can’t even afford to buy a first home. What’s “normal talk about finances” to the CEO is wildly insensitive in that context.

                  It sounds like Jane and her friends may not be fully aware of the context. That doesn’t make them bad people, but it would be better if they were more aware of their privilege and how it affects others (i.e., the privilege of working remotely at a higher salary so they can live in a lower cost area, and how a collective choice to do that has negatively impacted the economic environment for the original inhabitants)

                4. yala*

                  It’s not “policing.” ffs, isn’t this basic debutante/Gracious Hostess 101? Y’know, trying to the conversation veering into certain subjects because it can make for a bad evening?

                  Like, if I’m with one specific group of friends, and we’ve all been friends for ages and everyone knows everyone, yeah, we’ll probably talk about anything.

                  But it a mixed group that’s trying to have a Pleasant Evening (isn’t that what cocktail parties are for?), probably best to avoid religion, money, politics…

                5. Jen*

                  I don’t think financing is normal talk! It used to be that finances and politics were the two things you didn’t talk about in polite society. Things are quite a bit more relaxed now, but it’s still important to be aware of who you’re talking to and how you’re coming off.

                6. TootsNYC*

                  etiquette has long policed “normal talk about finances.”
                  It said that in social situations, it was not normal to talk about finances.
                  And a larger party, with a diverse background of guests, it’s not cool to talk about money issues.

                  This is why. Quite apart from the management or work issues, it is hard for someone like our OP to hear others talk about how rich they are now.

                  At a party? Don’t talk about money. Among a smaller group of close friends? Have at it.

                7. Jasper*

                  Etiquette that “polices talk about finances” is a major contributor to wealth inequality persisting.

              2. Peanut*

                If you find people generally speaking about finances offensive, you’re part of the mindset that generates income inequality and keeps people financially illiterate. Facts, like cost of living comparisons, are just facts. If you’re taking it emotionally, that’s a you problem, not an offensive topic problem.

                1. Elizabeth Naismith*

                  ^This. Income does stretch further in an area with lower cost of living. It’s why many Hollywood Stars don’t live in the LA area most of the year; they spend their downtime on their ranch, their country home, or a gated community elsewhere.
                  Or why very few people actually live in D.C. They’d rather spend an hour commuting each way, because it’s still much cheaper.
                  Or why apartments are tiny in NYC.
                  I also live in an area that had a much lower cost of living until we got flooded with Californians during the pandemic. Cost of living shot through the roof (and these insane gas and food prices aren’t helping). But as annoyed as I am by the influx of transplants, I can’t take it personally. I live in a great area. Of course people want to live here, too. And if I want more than I can afford right now, I need to improve my own skill set so I can get a job that pays better. Not whine that someone else makes more than me, or I deserve to be paid more for the same work.

                2. bamcheeks*

                  I think there’s a very big difference between financial literacy and people talking excitedly about the cost of living differential which may be causing your family and friends real hardship as a huge benefit.

                3. yala*

                  “you’re part of the mindset that generates income inequality”

                  There is a time and a place. A Christmas cocktail party isn’t really that place.

                  Facts are just facts sure, but that doesn’t mean that having an emotional reaction to a fact is unreasonable. If someone has cancer or can’t afford rent etc, those are both facts, but you wouldn’t tell someone that they shouldn’t “take it emotionally” if they were upset about it.

                4. Despachito*

                  I find finance talks often tacky and boring, and do not think that if you do not participate in this it makes you financially illiterate. If I hear another guest at a party saying he is making the double of my salary (as OP did), what can I realistically do with that information? It does not increase MY salary or make me magically involved in the world of finance.

                  It is very much a read the room situation. Financial issues are sensitive for many people, and while a situation when I am discussing the prices of houses or of a fancy holiday with a FRIEND who I KNOW is approximately at the same financial level as me, or rates with a colleague in the same industry branch is acceptable and we can both learn from this, if I discussed prices of the same fancy holiday with a friend who I know is financially struggling, or with a stranger I know nothing about, it would be insensitive.

                  It is not Jane’s fault but I think her guests did the latter. I do not think Jane should have done something, and never should she be punished at work, but I understand a bit how OP feels.

                5. Allonge*

                  If the time and place are appropriate, it’s not rude. I moved away from home and earn a lot more than anyone I grew up with, or my parents and their friends ever did. If people ask, I talk about this.

                  But going home and saying ohhh, is it not great that everything is sooo cheapo here? Yeah, I would expect to be disinvited from friend events.

                6. Bleh*

                  The concept of discussing finances as offensive was created by upper management types to generate financial illiteracy and keep wages depressed in marginalized groups. It’s important and necessary to discuss the topic with coworkers and with business professionals, but talking about how much more you can buy with your money now that you’re in a LCOL area is not the same thing politically speaking.

              3. Anonymously Yours*

                You have no accurate knowledge of whether what was said was awful, ignorant or offensive.

                1. bamcheeks*

                  I consider, “it’s so great how our money goes so much farther here!” in an area experiencing gentrification as awful, ignorant and offensive.

                2. Pippa K*

                  Bamcheeks – do you consider “I moved to a lower cost if living area so I could afford a house with a yard for my kids” to be offensive? Because it’s pretty much the same thing.

                3. bamcheeks*

                  I think it really depends. Lots of this is about awareness of the person you’re talking to. I think this stuff feels awful when it’s just a total denial of the reality that you and people you love are facing. Lots of people nodding and talking about how great it is to be able to afford childcare would still be alienating if you’ve been priced out of childcare and your family os suffering. One person saying, “Moving here has been great for us because we can afford childcare for the first time, I’m sorry you’re struggling with it, that sucks” is empathy and recognition of a shared situation.

                  I guess the contradiction I see here is the idea that it’s some kind of harm to Jane and her friends not to be thought well of, and that that can only be justified if they have done something objectively wrong. I just don’t think like that! I would centre the feelings of people who are experiencing the negative impacts of gentrification and I think they get to be mad about it regardless of whether Jane has done something objectively wrong or not.

              4. Pdxing*

                A couple points – the letter writer said *only* that Jane’s friends were talking “about how much further their big city salaries stretch here”. That could have been as innocent as “man, I’ve noticed things are less expensive here than in BLANK city”. The writer’s own insecurities are turning that into a dig, and it’s entirely on them. You have no context to blame Jane or her friends because none of us know what was said – all we know is the writer’s own headspace is impacting how she receives it, and it’s on them to deal with that, not the people around them. We’ve all been inadvertently jealous – it’s a thing that happens. It takes a reasonable mindset to realize it isn’t someone else’s fault.

                1. arthur lester*

                  Yeah, I live in a less-expensive-part of a high cost of living area in my state, and was chatting about rent with a friend who lives in a much lower cost of living area. We have very different financial realities as people, but nobody felt the need to take anything personally.

                2. londonedit*

                  I mean, it could have been something as innocuous as ‘We’re so happy; we’d never have been able to afford to buy in Big City, but moving here means we’ve been able to buy this amazing house!’ which, yeah, counts as ‘it’s amazing how much further our money goes here’ but doesn’t count as ‘flaunting’, I don’t think. If they were saying ‘Oh my god this town is so CHEAP, we could buy half the street and still have money left over’ then yes, that’s crass, but expressing happiness that you could afford to buy somewhere nice to live when maybe you couldn’t before, without getting into specifics? I think that’s pretty normal.

              5. Worldwalker*

                Talking about how your money goes further in a lower COL place is not “awful ignorant things.” And “half my guests”? It might be a single person. And you’d take responsibility for things you didn’t know were happening because they were in another room and you’re just trying to keep the bowls of dip filled up?

                Besides, the LW is no saint. She has a job! As a manager! She has an apartment! Probably even (whispers) a car!

                At the very, very least, she should quit her job and get a minimum-wage job elsewhere. It’s not right of her to be earning so much. And that apartment is suspect, too; there are undoubtedly homeless people in her town — why does she act like she’s better than they are? How dare she talk to someone at a party about getting a new lamp — doesn’t she know there are people who can’t afford lamps? And it’s even worse if she says she got a good deal on car repairs; that’s offensive to people who can’t afford cars.

                Or, you know, she can accept that there are people who are better off than she is, just like there are people who are worse off, and you live in a world with all of them. Being jealous of the former means admitting that jealousy by the latter is justified.

              6. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                I am guessing you do not have many fun parties then, because this was not really a particularly awful, ignorant, or offensive thing. At best it was a bit thoughtless, but very few people, even people with significantly lower incomes, would be all that offended by this one offhand comment.

            2. WiscoKate*

              It’s really hard to tell the context. If they were just talking about cost of living being a benefit to living there – that isn’t really flaunting wealth but could seem like it to the OP. But there’s definitely a way it could be discussed as snobby and I don’t think we have enough info to determine which it is.

              I mean, I get it. It’s hard being poor, especially when you come face to face with people that very much are not. It doesn’t mean you get to fire them so you don’t have to deal with it. She invited OP to her home, which means she must be at least kind of welcoming. If Jane is pleasant to work with, it’s never bad having connections at good companies if OP is interested in different work in the future.

            3. FurnitureontheTitanicRearranger*

              While working in NYC I made $27k a year. I could not afford to live in the city.
              I made more than my friends who worked closer to home. My money did stretch more in my hometown. I did make more than others. But I spent the difference on monthly train tickets and travel time.

              At the end of it all, it doesn’t matter if Janes guests were using $100k bills to light their Jo Malone candles — Jane is a good employee, and any envy regarding her home/salary/education from her supervisor is unfair to their working situation. If the envy prevents the supervisor from becoming friends with Jane, that is fine, as everyone gets to decide who their friends are.

              1. Jasper*

                If they were using $100 bills to snort cocasine, though… that would be a Firing Offense. But that seems very different.

          4. Opal*

            It’s not even a “wealthy people” conversation. I live in a similar area. Many people move here because of the job market and lower cost of living. They may be entry, mid, or end career folks. It doesn’t matter which rung of the ladder they are on. They all make the same comment.

            1. Properlike*

              It’s an “adult” conversation. It’s a running joke at most parties where people are at a certain life stage (depending on the area and industry: late 20s/early 30s.) “Guess we’re old, here we are talking about mortgage rates.”

              Discussing wealth inequality is not the same as making racist or sexist comments, either.

              If a conversation at a party makes you uncomfortable, the solution is to excuse yourself. To expect all the participants at a party to only discuss topics that YOU approve of in a way that makes YOU comfortable is the height of personal privilege/entitlement.

              1. bamcheeks*

                There is a specific social class of people who talk about mortgage rates at parties. It is not a universal human attribute.

                1. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                  OP said that they used to be able to afford a home, and can barely afford rent now, so I think it is safe to say that she talks about mortgage rates sometimes.

              2. Vimes*

                Ok that is a rich people party. The vast majority of Americans can’t afford homes in their late 20/early 30s. If the people at the parties you go to can do that, that’s nice for them. The fact that you don’t recognize that this isn’t just “typical party conversation” is kinda troubling.

                1. Rowerrabbit*

                  This is just untrue. Really geographically dependent. My poorer friends are more likely to talk about money than my richer friends. Money is a huge stress and driving force in our lives. Makes sense that people discuss it.

                2. Yeah, no*

                  Vast majority?
                  Hardly.
                  Maybe in your specific circle, but across the entire nation, there’s literally millions of other people in that age bracket who can.

                3. Burger Bob*

                  O_o Husband and I bought a house at age 31 two years ago, and we were late to the party compared to most of our friends. This is heavily dependent on what area you live in. In ours, it’s not at all uncommon for people in their late 20s/early 30s to be able to buy a house. And it DOES become a “typical party conversation.” People going through buying their first house like talking to other people who have recently done the same about the process and comparing experiences, same as people going through any first time experience with a big life event (see also first time parents comparing stories about their babies’ sleep schedules or what have you). I absolutely get that if you aren’t in that financial position, it can be incredibly awkward to be the odd man out and you could even feel resentful. But they aren’t talking about it AT you. No different than if you’re at a party with lots of newlyweds talking about marriage stuff and they don’t realize you just went through a bad breakup.

                5. Eirene*

                  You really can’t conceive of a party where people talk about mortgage rates in a general sense? Even, “Wow, the mortgage rates are too high for me to buy a house right now”? I have friends who bought houses and friends who rent and friends who live with their parents. We’re not rich; we’re a mix of different income levels, and we talk about that kind of stuff at parties all the time. How are you supposed to know what life is like for other people if you don’t discuss life?

            2. Lavender*

              Yeah, that was my interpretation. I grew up in an area with an extremely high cost of living, and a big part of the reason I left was *because* I’m not wealthy. There’s definitely some room for nuance–like, if you can afford to live comfortably anywhere you choose but moved to a cheaper area so you could buy a mansion, talking about that might seem tactless. But I don’t think commenting on the cost of living is rude in itself.

              (That said, I would still err on the side of not bringing it up if I were earning a living wage and my conversation partner was not.)

          5. skadhu*

            I happen to live in a place where there’s been a lot of recent inward migration from city-dwellers who would be poor in a nearby city given its astronomically ridiculous cost of living, but are relatively well off here. And yeah, people talk about the difference. That doesn’t mean that everyone who has made that shift is actually rich, for a significant it’s that they can now survive more comfortably and perhaps afford some luxuries. I don’t know if that’s the case in OP’s example, but it’s common here. And yes, people benefit in relative terms, but it’s within a socio-political infrastructure designed to pay off for a relatively small number at the expense of most, and those kinds of discrepancies are part of the system. The ones who benefit at lower levels do have genuine benefits, but those are small compared to the benefits of the people at the apex of the system, and accusing them of being rich is a red herring that divides people and distracts attention from the actual structural problems that cause the discrepancies. Divide and conquer, as they say.

            1. skadhu*

              (and by afford some luxuries I mean a holiday or a new computer, not an endless array of expensive designer products)

              1. Lizzo*

                ^^This. It’s the difference between just surviving, or actually having a chance to thrive.

                And also this: “[A]ccusing them of being rich is a red herring that divides people and distracts attention from the actual structural problems that cause the discrepancies.”

                This is the real problem. OP, if you’re pissed, you’re better off channeling that anger towards political activism so that the structural problems causing these issues can be addressed by the people who are currently in charge of things.

                1. Splendid Colors*

                  I hope it isn’t out of line to point out there is a nationwide movement to fight those structural problems. Some people are offended by the name “Poor People’s Campaign” but it’s a revival of Martin Luther King’s PPC from the 1960s. There are chapters all over the place even if your community doesn’t have local tenant unions etc. Look up Poor People’s Campaign and Rev. William Barber.

              2. KateM*

                We moved from city apartment to row house in a smaller nearby town, the main luxuries we received were 1) kids getting their own bedrooms 2) kids getting chance to play in our own little yard in fresh air as much as they wanted (asthma of one of them went into remission within a couple of years after our move).
                Very many families have moved here and built new houses – the amount of elementary school teachers in local school has TRIPLED in last 15 years.

            2. cardigarden*

              It’s like living in or very close to a city and you can barely afford the only apartment that works within your net income and then you move 30 miles away and suddenly the same apartment is half the cost. Your money IS going to go farther and it’s not a crime, and I wouldn’t even call it gauche or disrespectful, to talk about that. That’s what I dealt with. Sure, I was still making only 40k, but I suddenly had a bit left over every month after rent, utilities, and groceries.

            3. Tau*

              I’m in a big city and I get the impression gentrification here works via domino effect – people who would’ve bought there before can no longer afford to live in rich area X, so instead they move to well-off area Y, driving up the prices there so that people who would have lived in Y end up shifting to median-income area Z, at which point residents of Z are priced out and end up in poorer area W, and so on and so forth. Being part of this cycle can leave you feeling helpless – like, gentrification is bad but you cannot actually afford to live anywhere where you wouldn’t be participating in gentrification, so what do you do?

              Not sure that’s what’s happening with Jane and her friends, mind you, especially given the pandemic-related relocation aspect and the way OP describes her home.

              1. Splendid Colors*

                I haven’t heard of “gentrification” meaning that people from rich areas move to middle class suburbs, etc. The only contexts where I’ve heard the term “gentrification” used are either people (or corporations) buying real estate in economically disadvantaged neighborhoods in a metro area (i.e. Oakland, East San Jose, SF Bayview) OR people moving from a metro area to the boonies where the locals simply can’t compete.

                What OP is talking about is the latter.

                Imagine you live in a rural farm town with a quaint little Main Street and some residential neighborhoods, surrounded by farms. Maybe family farms, maybe industrial-scale farming with some shacks for migrant/undocumented workers. Or maybe it’s out in the desert, or in the mountains or forest.

                Pretty good chance there isn’t a major employer in the area. Just mom-n-pop local businesses, maybe some chain fast food, maybe the kind of chain restaurants you get at truck stops if you’re on a major freeway like I-5. Maybe there’s some tourism if you’re near a National Park or something. Lots of people can almost make ends meet on disability or Social Security or a small pension.

                Nobody really has a high enough income to afford high rent or expensive houses, and then BOOM! Influx of highly-paid city folk doing WFH who figure they might as well move to the country instead of paying millions of dollars on a house or condo with a bunch of unhoused people camping on the sidewalk. (This is frankly pretty understandable.)

                These newcomers with ginormous salaries snap up any houses on the market for top dollar, pay more for rent than the locals can, and now the other landlords figure they might as well cash in too. Even now that employers are starting to call people back to the office (or laying them off), those housing prices aren’t going to go back to pre-newcomer levels. Are business owners who benefit from higher retail spending (such as fancier restaurants and brew pubs instead of diners and dive bars) going to increase wages enough for their employees to compete in the housing market? And what about people on fixed incomes who don’t get a HCOL bonus because they live outside the official HCOL areas?

                They might just double up and share housing.

                They might decide to relocate somewhere that’s rural enough AND unpleasant enough not to be attracting gentrifiers.

                1. Jasper*

                  There is pain associated with this transition, but it is an inevitable transition. Now remote work and WFH is relatively suddenly much more of a thing than it was, longer commutes are less repulsive, because once a week it’s a lot more doable than 5 , and for some people the commute is completely irrelevant (although frankly those may well end up in Costa Rica rather than Anytown USA). That’s going to inevitably spread high earners across more of the country, and *that* will lead to higher COL and wages in rural areas and lower in the cities.

                  But it’ll take a good goddamn while with lots of pain for those incoming rich folk’s money to enhance the local economy to the point of higher wages at the local bakery, and for enough housing to have been built.

          6. Tamale Thief*

            Ok, a thought that I haven’t seen yet and I don’t want to read all the 500+ comments to see if it’s here:

            Who does OP think is buying the high profit margin goods at the bakery? Because it’s not the folks who are having trouble making ends meet – it’s the newcomers who have more stretch in their budget.

            It sounds heartless but also, like, don’t be all cranky about the fact that your customer base has extra $$.

            1. MigraineMonth*

              Depending on how taxes are structured, it’s also likely that people buying homes in the area are footing the bill for significant improvements in local services, infrastructure and education.

              1. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                I have said some similar things. No one who knows me would call me a conservative ever, but apparently that’s the nicest thing some people here can call me … yikes!

                Not to mention, many people coming from urban settings to more rural areas are bringing more liberal voting attitudes and are more likely to support politicians that advocate for affordable housing, rent controls, etc.

              1. Jasper*

                While, obvs, I can see negatives to gentrification, the alternative always seems to me to be on the level “unicorns that poop rainbows!”. You have a group of people that can only afford low rents, which buy them shitty housing. But you also don’t want them to be forced to move. That argument, when it comes to implementations, seems inevitably to lead to either “keep said shitty housing shitty”, or “renovate the shitty housing into good housing, but don’t charge any more money for it”, which.. good luck with that, even if it *is* legally mandated, or in the very best case to “still tear it down and replace with high density high price housing, but mandate some number of low cost housing be built back for the original residents”, at which point the neighborhood is still unrecognizable because 90% of the inhabitants are incomers in between the original lower density inhabitants.

                I’ve never seen anyone formulate a coherent plan for how to deal with these market forces effectively that keeps the original community intact. Lots of people have tried, including 1970s UK schemes where the existing favela inhabitants were relocated wholesale into blocks of flats. Didn’t work then, either.

                1. Jasper*

                  (Any real answer to me would have to start with “make that group that can only afford shitty housing better able to afford decent housing”, as far as I can tell.)

            3. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

              I know. I see some negatives, of course, but the town is also getting an infusion of people willing to spend money, and the economy needs that too. I also understand the concerns about gentrification escalating the cost of living and pushing poorer residents out. But there is no saying the town and its residents would be able to thrive or even find and keep jobs if those newer residents did not come.

              And many of the urban dwellers who move to smaller towns from higher COL areas are more liberal voters and may well help champion politicians who favor policies designed to level the playing field, like affordable housing, rent control, etc.

          7. Looper*

            So Jane is supposed to tell all her guests “don’t talk about money because I invited poor people over?”

            1. TootsNYC*

              they’re supposed to know that there are people they don’t know personally at the party, and then follow good basic etiquette, which has long said, “don’t talk about money.”

              There are places where it’s important to, but a big party where a few of the guests are people you don’t know is not one of those places.

              That used to be basic etiquette. There are plenty of other things to talk about.

              Money creates strata. Social events are supposed to erase it. That’s why it’s rude to talk about money at social events.

              2. L-squared*

                I think the issue comes to what people consider “talking about money”. To me saying “wow, driving out here, I saw guess is way cheaper than where I live” wouldn’t really be considered talking about money in the same way that “my stock portfolio is down this month” or “I had to pay X amount for my new Tesla” is. To me, the gas price thing is, more or less, what the people at the party were saying. Maybe you would consider discussing the difference in gas prices as “talking about money”. I don’t.

              3. Avril Ludgateaux*

                they’re supposed to know that there are people they don’t know personally at the party, and then follow good basic etiquette, which has long said, “don’t talk about money.”

                This is the same convention that kept people silent about their salaries, leading to immense earnings disparities (often along identity lines at that).

                1. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

                  Well, that was really employers trying to push that so that they could get away with it, but they definitely used the etiquette rule to push it along!

            2. L-squared*

              Reminds me of that Chappelle show sketch.

              “Hide the money ya’ll, there’s poor people around.”

          8. Pounce de Lion*

            OK, you win. Jane is an excellent employee who spends her free time being a haughty biddy and terrible hostess. Now what?

            1. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

              No, Jane is an excellent employee who works unwanted shifts that would be hard to cover and who offers help when it is needed. She also comes from socio-economic circumstances that make OP ridiculously jealous and misdirected in her rage. OP also takes offense easily at some minor comments about COL at a party hosted by Jane because OP is so jealous that she is ready to be too easily offended. Jane, on the other hand, is lovely.

          9. Anonomatopoeia*

            I mean, and they are taking those stretchy dollars and placing them in the local economy and tax base, so…

            Also, LW? For all you know (because you actual facts DO NOT know), Jane might be donating her entire bakery salary to local entities devoted to helping people make ends meet. You have no idea what she does with her money, or whether it’s for good or evil. That’s also true of the teenagers you hire — some of them might have a good allowance at home and use this pocket money for the occasional event featuring hookers and blow, with you none the wiser, you know? Or someone else who doesn’t have the particular cushion Jane has might acquire one when their grandmother leaves them her home or some other kind of windfall. Anyway, Jane’s financial history is pretty far outside the realm of your business.

            (Also? Being jealous is only hurting you — if you can find a way to not dwell here, you’ll probably be a lot happier about the whole situation)

          10. L-squared*

            Honestly, I find that concept crazy.

            None of my friends are what I’d call rich. However, in the last few years, I’ve had a number of friends expand their families and move to the burbs (I live in a major city). They do this because what they pay for a 2BR 1 bath condo in the city gets them a lot more room (and better schools) in the burbs. I see nothing wrong with discussing this topic. Its not like its some secret that only rich people know. The fact is, I spend more on groceries, gas, and entertainment than they do. Why do we have to pretend that isn’t the case? Its not flaunting to discuss this

          2. Valancy Trinit*

            Of all the hot takes I’ve seen on this thread, this might be the hottest.

            In the vast majority of workplaces it’s very normal.

          3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

            I don’t think it’s weird in itself to invite co-workers to your home, but given Jane’s situation I think that would qualify as ‘flaunting’ as she’s clearly aware of the disparity.

            1. Properlike*

              Such a Catch-22. Had Jane not invited her to the party, or not invited any coworkers to the party, I’m sure LW would have pointed out that Jane was “flaunting” her status by not wanting to associate with the “lower class.” (Assuming that’s LW’s idea of what Jane believes.)

              LW is looking to be offended here, and has found her scapegoat.

              2. Lavender*

                Exactly. Or something like, “I can’t believe Jane didn’t invite us to her party, since we earn so much less than she does and can’t afford to throw nice holiday parties of our own.” This sounds like it would be a lose/lose situation for Jane.

                I mean, I live in a city with a housing shortage and was very lucky to find a bigger apartment than most of my peers have. I host gatherings because I have more space, not because I’m trying to show off. As other commenters have pointed out, Jane isn’t doing anything *at* OP, she’s just living her life.

            2. Hiring Mgr*

              You missed the end of the party where Jane and her friends were burning $100 dollar bills in front of a group of orphans

            3. D*

              Maybe Jane thought a functional adult would know some people have less and some people have more, and we all have to learn to cope somehow. If Jane hadn’t invited her that would be snobbery… Lol Jane needs to give all her money away and wear a burlap sack i guess, anything else is just hurtful.

            4. Burger Bob*

              Clearly aware? How do you figure? Jane has no idea what OP’s financial situation is. She doesn’t know OP’s salary, OP’s partner’s salary if applicable, any other money OP may have from other sources, etc. Jane is not flaunting anything by inviting someone she thought was a friend to her home for a party. And frankly, it would be a little weird if Jane intentionally avoided inviting over anyone who might be poorer than herself. I don’t investigate potential guests’ finances before inviting them over, and I don’t think most people do either.

            5. Irish Teacher.*

              Honestly, I’d be kind of offended if I thought a coworker didn’t invite me over because “my house is much bigger than hers and she might get jealous.” I would find that patronising.

              1. L-squared*

                Right. This is bizarre to me.

                I’m an adult. I know some people make less and some people more. But deciding that I’m too poor to be able to accept that someone has a nicer home than me is incredibly offensive

          5. Library Penguin*

            I admit, I find that weird as well – I’ve been to one (1) coworker’s home in the twenty years I’ve been working. But I don’t socialise with my colleagues outside of work, so I guess it’s just a personal preference or cultural thing?

          6. SofiaDeo*

            In small towns, the social strata may not be as segmented as in larger ones. Plus, I have seen in small departments/businesses, it is polite to invite *everyone* but the bosses don’t show up. I know I got invited to many social events that I am sure my staff was happy I did not turn up at. As well as attended parties where even though the managers got an invite, none of them came, and I at least was glad to “let down my hair” in a way I wouldn’t have if a manager was present. For all we know, Jane invited LW just to be polite and was expecting a refusal.

        4. Vanellope*

          From what was disclosed in the letter, it does seem like the friends could be seen as flaunting (talking about how far their city salaries stretch in a smaller town) but overall I didn’t see anything to indicate Jane herself hasn’t been sensitive to these issues. I get the LWs frustration but it seems to be more the fault of the situation than Jane herself.

          1. Little Lady Flauntelroy*

            I’ve responded “houses are cheaper here, I could afford three bedrooms for what I sold my one bedroom house for” to several people when they’ve asked why I moved 200 miles. I certainly hope they don’t think I’m flaunting my “wealth” (I’d like to actually have wealth if I’m going to be accused of flaunting it – owning a house is really the only wealthy thing about me, we’re pretty low income).

            1. Calpurrnia*

              Agreed! I moved 700 miles last year, and I’ve definitely said “I’m paying the same rent for a 3-bed house with a garden here as I paid for a cramped 1-bed 3rd-floor walkup apartment there” when asked “why here?” Is that somehow “flaunting wealth”?

              I mean, “so what brought you to this area?” is a super normal small-talk thing to ask people who moved recently, especially people you’re just meeting and don’t know well. There are a huge variety of reasons people move, but for *a lot* of people, the answer boils down to “money!” People don’t typically just decide to pack up their entire life into boxes and put them in a truck and move to a different region because they thought moving sounded fun! People decide to move because they can’t comfortably afford to access _(thing they value)_ where they live now so they choose a place where they can. Fill in the blank however you like!… For some people it’s groceries, rent, a house, a bigger house, a yard, a garden, a dog, a horse. Medical care, daycare, schools, college, visiting parents, visiting grandparents, caring for aging or ill family. Parking, commuting, groceries, electricity, clean water, internet, security. Coffee, avocado toast, buns from the bakery. Some of these are luxuries but lots of them aren’t. Is it really rude and horribly pro-trickle-down-economics to say “I moved because I couldn’t afford groceries in City, but here my salary goes a lot further so I can eat healthier!”?!

              This seems like a no-win situation for people just trying to make small talk at a party. All this pearl-clutching like “It’s so rude to talk about money at a party!” and getting offended because someone gave an honest answer to a super basic “getting to know you” question is just looking for a thing to be offended about. Do we expect people to lie because their life situation is different from another person’s and telling the truth might possibly offend that person? What topics are and aren’t off limits if that’s the case?

              Are people allowed to mention their children, or do they avoid the topic since somebody at the party might be childless? Can people compliment the cook on the food, or do they avoid the topic because somebody might dislike an ingredient? Can people mention something from a popular television show, or do they avoid the topic since somebody might not have cable??

              People have different lives. Nobody’s living their life AT anyone. Everyone’s making decisions based on their means and their values. It’s not offensive to factually state the reasons for those decisions. Come on, people.

          2. Modesty Poncho*

            From the letter, I would assume that Jane’s friends assumed that anyone at the party was probably in a similar life situation. It’s a lot of assumptions and they weren’t true, but it’s not unreasonable to think that the friends of my friends probably have lives like mine?

        5. Niyuz*

          “There is a good phrase I learned here at AMA. Jane isn’t living her life AT anyone.”

          Credit where credit is due—that’s a Captain Awkward phrase.

        6. stunner266*

          Jane and her friends were “flaunting” how much their big city money stretches in this smaller town. People like Jane are the reason OP can no longer afford to buy a home in their town.
          I dont think OP should fire her, but I do 100% understand the resentment. I find your comment that OP should learn and grow from this to be extremely patronizing.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            And she shouldn’t she also not invite anyone who makes less than LW, in case they feel bad because they make less than LW.

          2. Avril Ludgateaux*

            You know, it only just occurred to me. We don’t even know that those friends make so much more than LW. They could’ve been scraping by with 5 roommates in a far-from-downtown 2 bedroom apartment, drowning in student loan debt, living check to check and putting groceries on credit. Even for somebody in that scenario, moving to a lower COLA would be extremely refreshing, financially, and your dollar would still go farther.

      3. Maggie*

        She’s not flaunting it, she’s just existing. But I like your point. We don’t know what others are going through and for all we know Jane is desperately trying to scrape up the money each month for her moms nursing home. We don’t know. She’s nice and a good employee and that’s all OP really needs to focus on right now. Personally I’ve found the best way to handle jealousy is to befriend someone and maybe even try to be inspired by them, but OP may not be ready to try that yet.

        1. I am Emily's failing memory*

          Yeah, I do wonder at someone who gets a 2 year paid sabbatical from their corporate job and decides to spend those 2 years working the least desirable shifts at a bakery. I took a part-time service industry job when I was an early-career office professional because my office job didn’t pay enough to support my living expenses AND service my student loan debt. I was well aware that my financial situation was by most standards much more comfortable than my (largely teenaged or recently-arrived immigrant) coworkers. But all the same, I did need that job – I wasn’t there for funsies.

          I would guess there’s a reason Jane needs that job. Maybe it’s like another commenter suggested and she’s getting on-the-job training for a business she wants to start. Maybe she’s caring for a terminally ill family member. Maybe she had a mental health crisis. Maybe a hundred other possibilities – but the least likely explanation is probably, “Jane’s greed is so insatiable that one highly-paid job is not enough.”

          2. Burger Bob*

            I have sort of a Jane employee at work. She definitely does not need the job from a financial standpoint, and she’s massively overqualified for it in terms of educational background. But she just genuinely wants to have something that consistently gets her out of the house and gives her something to do. And she’s one of our best employees, very reliable, willing to pick up weird shifts, etc. It would be extremely weird of us to decide she doesn’t “deserve” the job because she’s already financially well-off enough.

          3. Splendid Colors*

            Quite a few people from these high paid professions want to start businesses after retiring early from those high-stress jobs. And yes, bakeries are one of those things people dream about doing. One local bakery that folded during the pandemic was started by a couple from the local tech industry. (I hear their stuff was amazing but it was sooo far out of my budget I never got around to trying any.)

      4. Sparkles McFadden*

        People tend to assume everyone around them is in the same situation. When people are very well off, some of the conversations may make you want to stab them with a fork, but they really don’t mean anything by it. We’re can all be inconsiderate clods in one way or another.

        2. ferrina*

          This. Problems may sound similar, but the scope makes the difference.

          In college my friends would complain about how they didn’t have any money but would never worry about where their next meal was coming from or whether they would have a place to live. A couple of us were the ones who were constantly thinking about how to survive, and that takes a toll. Does that mean my other friends were rich? No, most of them weren’t. And yes, their problems were real. They were just on another scope.

          Likewise, it’s common to complain about one’s family. Family will always be the source of some headaches. But there’s a difference between a headache and an abusive family (I came from the latter). It doesn’t make the headache any less real or problematic, but it’s not the same scale.

          1. LoJo*

            Similarly, a therapist once told me…if you stub your toe, it still hurts regardless of your life circumstances.

          2. Rowerrabbit*

            Also, people spend money VASTLY differently. I have plenty of friends who make so much less than me but drive the same car and wear really nice clothes. I just don’t care about that stuff and am kind of a bum with clothing. I do take really nice vacations, but I hotspotted off my phone for internet for 5 years because I didn’t want the monthly charge. I didn’t have a TV even for most of my adult life because I just didn’t want to pay for it and I wanted to save that money in other ways. Making assumptions based on what people have or do can be tricky and really wrong.

            1. ferrina*

              Debt also makes a difference. I spent the first decade of my career paying $500/month for student loans, while my coworker’s parents paid for her college, so she was able to put that money towards a down payment on a house. So even though we had similar spending habits (I actually spent less), because she had her monthly Shelter payments going towards a mortgage, she was accumulating wealth (via equity). Meanwhile my loan debt meant that I couldn’t save for a down payment and was still paying rent. This is a well known cycle in generational wealth/poverty.

            2. Worldwalker*

              Exactly. Someone who didn’t know I don’t have cable TV, my Honda Civic is old enough to run for Congress, and I can’t remember the last time I paid more than $25 for an article of clothing, might think I’m well-off. Whereas someone who sees me in that old beater of a car, wearing jeans from Costco and a T-shirt from a yard sale, would certainly think I’m poor. They’re both wrong. I’m middle-class, and kind of odd about what I spend my money on. That’s true for a lot of people.

      5. yala*

        I use something similar when I think about “Oh, if only I’d done X or Y” (usually related to “if only my ADHD had been diagnosed and treated a decade and change earlier). But if I’d actually done the things I wanted to do, I wouldn’t have my cat. And I love her. I can still try to do the things I wanted to do (well, dating in your 30s sucks a lot), but there’s no other cat like my Harpo.

        1. Worldwalker*

          I’ve often thought I should have taken a certain college scholarship instead of going where I did. But if I had, I never would have met the wonderful person I’ve been married to for almost 30 years. Life is what it is. In retrospect, I’m pretty happy with how mine worked out.

      6. MissGirl*

        I’m getting a strong vibe of the LW who treated her employee poorly who was beautiful when the OP had serious self image issues. She would’ve never hired the employee and deep down wished she could fire her.

        She could not conceal her animosity. That ended very very badly for the LW.

          2. Sparkles McFadden*

            Original letter
            https://www.askamanager.org/2017/02/im-jealous-of-my-attractive-employee-working-for-free-when-changing-careers-and-more.html

            Update 1
            https://www.askamanager.org/2017/05/update-im-jealous-of-my-employee-and-its-impacting-how-i-treat-her.html

            Update 2
            https://www.askamanager.org/2017/09/3-reader-updates-including-the-person-who-was-jealous-of-her-attractive-employee.html

            Update 3
            https://www.askamanager.org/2019/05/update-im-jealous-of-my-attractive-employee-and-its-impacting-how-i-treat-her.html

            1. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

              Note how sympathetic AAM’s tone was to that first letter compared to this one!

              1. Boof*

                There was a bit more self awareness imho that they were being a bad manager + talking about moving the employee to a different team, not firing them.

                1. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

                  They had been and continued to cause harm to the employee and lied about it to their boss. That’s a LOT worse, though I agree that probably because that letter writer had a massive mea culpa at the outset, there was more room to be charitable.

                2. Boof*

                  I don’t remember if all that came out in the first letter – but IDK I think there would have been room to be more harsh with them too – the important thing is to make it extremely clear that jealousy is NOT an ok reason to punish someone or make their working environment uncomfortable or fire them – even probably not ok just to make them change teams (instead probably better to recuse yourself from management if you can’t keep your jealousy from impacting your working relationship)

              2. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

                Yeah, but look how the “attractive” LW went ahead & acted on her jealousy, did harm, and got fired! I wonder if Alison is feeling like she “softened the message” a bit in that case and wants to come on stronger this time to try & prevent a similar outcome?

      7. The Starsong Princess*

        Here’s my guess – Jane doesn’t want OP’s job. Instead, I think she’s gaining experience before opening her own similar business, possibly in partnership with the owner. Regardless, OP has a good employee right now who will probably move on soon. They need to control the jealousy and cultivate Jane as a future contact.

        1. Boof*

          My bet is jane likes the low stakes of her current job while she’s decompressing from whatever she’s on sabattical from.
          Ngll as a doctor I occasionally think it would be nice to be a janitor and am projecting a bit on jane no doubt

      8. Rainbow*

        Something happened to me once that taught me a lot about jealousy. I had in my friends circle at one point an incredible and impressive woman. She is world-renowned in a particular field, extremely intelligent, fantastic with people, caring and courageous, generous with her time, very rich largely from her own making, has built up a successful business, is also famously beautiful and even has many adoring fans. And one day, her partner told me that she was jealous of me. If I have any of the above, it’s 1% of what she has.

        Taught me a lot about where jealousy comes from. It was her (unfathomable from the outside!) insecurities coming to light.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          This comes up whenever you compare your internal lived experience to someone else’s outer successes. If your neighbor has a new car, that might be because they put in hundreds of hours of overtime, or because the family member who bought it died.

          Don’t compare your diary to your friends’ Instagram feeds.

      9. Jenna*

        @High Score! – so true, I’ve found this to be the anecdote to jealousy also. I also once heard, “if you want someone else’s life, you have to take it all – the good and the bad. Do you also really want their bad?” The real-life example given was of a close friend of the speaker who had built up considerable personal wealth from his successful business, he was well-educated, had a happy marriage, and had time to exercise often and stay in great shape. To most people, it looked like he had a great life that anyone would want. But his friend knew that his daughter was a homeless addict living on the streets, and despite all his efforts he couldn’t convince her to accept help. This man would routinely use his PTO/vacation days to track down his daughter in their city (which would sometimes take multiple days) to make sure she was still alive, bring her food/clothes/etc. and try to convince her to come home with him. Even though he has a great life in many respects, I’, not sure anyone would trade having more money and career success for the misery, agony and terror of not knowing if my children were healthy, safe or even alive at any given moment. Everyone has good in their lives, and everyone has pain – it’s easy to judge someone up or down when you often don’t see or know their pain.

        1. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

          Wow, that is an excellent example of why we should be careful about judging on the surface level.

      10. Susannah*

        Oh, Jane isn’t “flaunting” anything other than just living her life. it’s not like she’s waving a Birken bag is LW’s face.
        I’m not clear on the resentment over getting paid “twice.” What if Jane were retied, and getting a pension or Social Security? She’s doing a job and getting paid for it (not much, I imagine). She’s made a point if being kind and welcoming and helpful.

        In all honesty.. maybe it would be easier to be jealous of her financial situation (which is normal!) if Jane were a jerk. it’s the way I felt when the super-pretty girl, head cheerleader, was also smart and nice to me in the hall. Part of me wanted her to be mean so I could say, ha! So she’s smart and popular but has a bad personality!
        Just acknowledge the jealousy for the very normal human feeling it is, then be glad Jane is making your life easier.

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          I remember the late Elizabeth Wurtzel writing about a very beautiful woman she was in rehab with, and how she, like most extra-attractive women she had met, were in no way the stereotype of the bitchy beauty queen.

          Since they were so stunning, most people they met on a day to day basis were dazzled and gave them everything we see attractive people getting in studies–attention, jobs, money, time, attraction. This made them quite nice and easy to be around, since they had literally spent their entire lives seeing the best in people.

      11. RR*

        Agree with the advice written here completely but wonder if it could have been written with a bit more compassion. This sounds like a frustrating situation, and I know how infuriating it can be to the on the bad side of inequality. Sometimes it makes you irrational, and a reality check can be helpful.

        I like your tip for jealousy and have one of my own to add. One thing my dad always said to me that I think about every time I get jealous is you can’t actually tell people’s financial situations from their lifestyle. Maybe Jane has a lot of debt. Maybe they don’t make as much as you think but just want to flaunt it. Maybe she has a lot of hidden bills like student loans or finances for an ill parent to manage. I hope not but you get my point. People often live beyond their means or want to appear as if they have more than they do. Count your own blessings and admit you don’t really know Jane’s situation, only what she presents, and she’s likely only presenting her best self.

      13. Grammar Penguin*

        Flaunting by definition is a deliberate act. If one doesn’t realize it, it’s not flaunting. It’s just being.

        1. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

          Or maybe you would rather switch, but it is not like you can assess that before the troubles are hung on the line. OP likely knows nothing of Jane’s troubles, but everyone has some, and they may be far worse than we would ever guess looking in from the outside.

      15. Styx-n-String*

        I ws fired once because the manager didn’t think I needed the money. No other reason – she even said I was good at the job, but because she interpreted my situation in a certain way, she decided I didn’t need the money and let me go. She was dead wrong – I desperately needed that job and losing it negatively affected a lot in my life at that point (and even now, decades later).

        You dont know Jane’s true situation. She might be trying to save money to get out of an abusive marriage, or any number of things she’s not disclosing to new coworkers. She’s at this job for a reason. It’s nobody else’s right to decide whether she “needs the money.” If she’s a good coworker, that’s all that matters.

      16. Ang*

        I think it’s a great opportunity to learn from her and take the managing advice she’s giving you for free

    2. Princess Trachea-Aurelia Belaroth*

      For real, I had only sympathy for the LW until the second-to-last paragraph, because I thought they were going to ask “How can I rein in these feelings and treat Jane professionally as a manager?”

      A very similar thing has happened to my town, and I do have a lot of resentment for the system that has done it, and even a significant amount for the people like Jane. But I am able to redirect and interrogate that ire, as Alison states. Hating and firing Jane will not benefit you, LW, nor will it even the scales of justice or satisfy your sense of it. You will probably face consequences for it, and Jane will get another sabbatical position to occupy her time before she goes back to her regular job.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I kept waiting for the part where Jane is insufferable and condescending. It never came. Jane sounds lovely.

        1. TechWorker*

          The only bit that sounded a bit dodgy to me is giving management tips. If they’re solicited, great, but if they’re not… well it’s a nice instinct but it’s not part of her current role & there would definitely be circumstances where it could be condescending. But that doesn’t seem to be most of the OPs complaint :)

          1. LoJo*

            But what a missed opportunity. The LW sounds young and is new to managing. It’s great to have resources. Unless it’s bad advice, it’s not dodgy.

            1. mf*

              That’s the thing: Jane sounds like a successful woman who would be a GREAT mentor or resource. If the OP is smart, she would see this as an opportunity: learn from Jane, make Jane a part of her network, so that she could benefit in her own career (especially financially!).

            2. Keats*

              But there’s nuance at play here. It sounds like Jane is completely tone deaf about the ways people like her are hurting this community. It is selfish. Privilege comes with responsibility, and Jane isn’t shouldering that responsibility. She sounds professionally excellent but clueless about the realities being a gentrifier.

              Her offenses aren’t fireable. But casually dropping her salary, making comments about how easily she and her friends can gobble up the local resources…. She’s not behaving ethically, either.

              The LW needs to find a way to work with her, but she really sounds ignorabr at best, classist at worst.

              1. Happy*

                The OP never said that Jane casually dropped or salary (or even shared it, at all).

                Jane told the owner that she was on sabbatical and somehow OP later found out the sabbatical was paid. It doesn’t say how OP found out.

              2. BabyElephantWalk*

                But … where has OP brought that point up with Jane?

                And at the end of the day, there’s not much nuance. It’s as simple as OP has a job to do as management. She doesn’t have to like Jane. But she can’t take her own issues out on Jane.

          2. turquoisecow*

            And OP seemed grateful for the tips, until she went to Jane’s house and had her mindset colored by the fact that Jane has some money.

          3. 1*

            It depends how this occured. If OP is annoyed and talking about it like “Damn it Luke is skipping out again, I wish he’d listen to me and get his act together” TO Jane then its not terrible to respond with something like “set a structure, tell him that NCNSing isn’t acceptable and then follow through” isn’t a bad thing. And Jane seems to have no idea of the jealously and inferiority complex that OP actually has.

          4. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

            Honestly, OP doesn’t seem to have minded that part really. I think if it weren’t for the income disparity, she would have simply appreciated it … at least based on how it sounded in the letter.

      2. Starbuck*

        Same here. Big resentment for all the rich people who’ve moved to the town I work in to buy their 2nd, 3rd home of 3,000 square feet that only 2 people occupy, and then fight tooth and nail against the construction of apartments or townhomes across the street so that people who actually work can maybe afford to live here and not commute from the next rural town down the highway. All while complaining about how understaffed the restaurants are, or how hard it is to find someone to paint their massive house… but I’m not bitter, lol

        So I get how LW feels, but obviously firing the ‘overqualified’ person is not the way to go. And all other negative impacts of rich people throwing their wealth around aside – I have read that it can be pretty beneficial for lower socioeconomic status to have wealthier friends. So it’s worth trying to cultivate that if you can, and who knows maybe really getting to know Jane will help LW feel less resentful. It’s helped me become less frustrated with individuals and more focused on the system (though the NIMBYs I will not forgive).

        1. silly sally*

          I’m also going to add that looking down on “overqualified” people working positions like these ultimately does hurt lower income people! I have a lot of friends from college who were either first gen/low income and got full rides to study something, then couldn’t break into their industry of choice because they still didn’t have the necessary connections or just plain realized it wasn’t a good choice long-term so they are working service positions with MAs while they build portfolios or switch industries, or friends who had major health issues or were laid off with kids, etc who are working service positions because that’s what is feasible or necessary for them, and they’re MAs or PhDs. It’s not that any of them are taking jobs from people who need them more, they all need them, and they also all have graduate degrees.

          1. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

            Yes, a lawyer from my old firm finally split ways with the firm in question, but he was looking for work and he is a bit older and he was seriously burned out. He worked for several months at the meat counter in a small grocery shop. It gave him time to look for work, allowed him to pay his mortgage without running out of all his severance (he has two kids after all, and had no idea how long he would be out of work as an attorney), and gave him a much needed mental break and an opportunity to do a physical job before he found a new job as a lawyer.

            Sometimes people need to work, and those high paying fancy jobs aren’t always an option, even if you have the education and experience.

    3. NotAnotherManager!*

      Exactly. I empathize with this a great deal because I am a class migrant surrounded by people who were born on 3rd base, and pretty much everything my spouse and I have, we earned ourselves. (I couldn’t figure out how everyone here could afford houses in their mid-20s, but it turns out this is much easier if your parents give you your down payment, and your grandparents financed you entire education.) I work with people who have second homes, take incredible vacations, and went to prestigious schools I could only dream of attending. People I supervise now will go on to bigger and better things than I do and have excellent connections.

      But 95% of them are nice, hard-working, bright people. Some of them are even cognizant of their advantage and doing their best to pay it forward via community service and mentoring. (Don’t get me wrong, that last 5% are classist, arrogant assholes, so I definitely hope they put all their money in crypto and strip mall real estate and are losing big.)

      Bottom line, I’d be the only person hurt by feeling bitter and jealous about it. My having those feelings would not in any way make the more privileged any less so, and it would only hurt my reputation to be outwardly angry or vindicate toward them.

      Also, I’m likely to be Jane some day. I wouldn’t worry about Jane gunning for OP’s job. As soon as I can get a nice job that doesn’t require working outside business hours, constantly being on call, and managing people, I’m there. Selling people delicious baked goods? Sign me up.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        When I worked at the library circulation desk in high school, I couldn’t resist sampling all the books. I don’t think it would be a good idea for me to work in a bakery, lovely as it sounds.

    1. Raglan*

      My read on this letter is that LW isn’t so much asking if she can fire Jane (she knows she can’t) as asking for tips on how to manage her while dealing with her own burnout and emotional struggles. Obviously resenting the people she manages is bad and flagging that is important, but I also have a lot of sympathy for the situation she’s in, probably more than is expressed in this response.

        1. Olive*

          I’m not sure about that. When she says “I want to fire her but I have no good reason…”, it seems like the LW might be looking for the smallest of reasons to at least give Jane a reprimand or write her up.

            1. Lydia*

              We’re also supposed to give the LWs the benefit of the doubt, and I think it’s fair the LW is hoping that firing Jane will mitigate the overall feelings of frustration she’s having, even if it won’t.

          2. Well...*

            I guess I just don’t see how it’s more important to diagnose LW’s true desire to fire Jane than it is to give LW some constructive advice for how to manage those feelings while being a good manager to Jane… you know, the actual question LW asked

          3. Lavender*

            I don’t know. I read it more as “I’m unhappy working with this person who is good at her job and hasn’t done anything harmful to me personally, what do I do?” Firing her appears to be an option they’d considered (even if only in passing), but it also sounds like they’re open to hearing about other solutions.

          4. SofiaDeo*

            I disagree. Look again at the letter. LW explains all the emotions she is going through, a bit of background, subtext, as to how/where LW thinks the emotions are coming from and ends “how can I manage her”. Not “how can I find an excuse to fire her.” The statement “I want to fire her but I have no good reason” I interpret as a statement of LW’s thoughts, not her intentions. LW is *asking how to manage with all these emotions*.

          5. Vio*

            She does, but she also asks how she manages her and not how she manages to get rid of her. Maybe it’s because I already made some assumptions based on the title (I thought something along the lines of “well it’s good that you recognise that you resent them and I hope this is a letter about how to manage that resentment rather than manage out the person”) but I also read it more as asking for help in putting the resentment aside and maintaining professionalism. But given some of the other letters we’ve seen here in the past it’s certainly not unreasonable to consider the possibility of someone asking “How do I indulge my petty desire to make people more miserable than I am?”

          1. alienor*

            I mean she did write in. If she weren’t trying to fight the feelings, she’d probably just find a pretext to fire her and be done with it.

            1. Worldwalker*

              I got the feeling that she was looking for Alison to tell her that she can legally fire Jane for any reason, so she should go ahead and do so.

        3. ferrina*

          I wonder if LW is also thinking about it as “Jane doesn’t need the money, she won’t be hurt if I fire her.” Maybe (LW doesn’t actually know that), but that’s not the point.

          LW is in pain, and Jane is a tangible representation of the societal issue that’s plaguing LW. Firing Jane will remove the immediate reminder of the issue, but it won’t actually solve anything. (and of course, will make a lot worse the LW’s management)

      2. Well...*

        Yea… as soon as I read the “I want to fire her” bit, I internally cringed. A lot of goodwill towards LW’s situation is going to go out the window with that. Perhaps rightfully so, as that’s where her judgement seems the most off-kilter.

        I hate it though because I really root for LWs when they write in.

        1. High Score!*

          I can understand this. She’s being honest. I moved to an area years ago so I could buy a house but now home prices are skyrocketing and rent is increasing. People can’t save to buy their own home bc rent is so high. They can’t get loans even though their mortgage would be half what they pay for rent. And then every time a house goes up for sale, a big rental company purchases it paying more than asking price and turns it into a rental property. It’s insane

          1. High Score!*

            Note: I bought my home when prices were reasonable but young people here are struggling. Our kids needed our help and their in laws help to get into a house and that was several years ago. I doubt we’d even have enough to help today.

          2. Starbuck*

            Word. In my small town, SFHs used to go for like, $300k max for something moderate sized built in the 70s – 90s. Now, those same houses are $500k – $600k, and I just saw listed a little studio condo (not new or luxury, and like 300 sq ft) for $250k. It’s nuts and it’s hard not to let feelings about that get the best of your judgement sometimes.

            1. KateM*

              How about prices in other places? Because where I live, prices have gone up for ALL homes. Inflation or something like that.

              1. Starbuck*

                It definitely varies by region, some places are worse than others – the towns that are an hour or two away and not known as tourism/recreation hubs have seen a bump like many areas have, but not as much as here. But you’re right almost everywhere in the country is getting more expensive, excepting specific cities in serious economic/structural decline.

          3. Splendid Colors*

            Tangent here, but yes, the Wall Street investment firms buying up homes to turn them into high-priced rentals are such a huge factor in the nationwide housing crisis. (And buying up homes but letting them sit vacant until rents are higher in the area. Big deal in Oakland.)

        2. Kyrielle*

          I think this LW still deserves some rooting-for. Yes, it’s not a charitable thought – but she’s asked how to manage in spite of that, not how to do it. She *knows* it’s not a charitable thought, she’s just stuck on it.

          Which, LW, if you can afford it, is a good use of therapy, if it is causing you misery or grief, and/or if you can’t keep it from affecting your actions (which you really have to).

      3. Audrey Puffins*

        Yes, this. The LW knows they have to overlook the disparities and manage Jane regardless, “I want to fire her” was simply an expression of how deeply this is affecting her, not a course of action that she’s seriously considering or looking for validation in.

        1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

          I’m not sure about that, only because she then listed all the reasons she couldn’t/shouldn’t fire her, and none of them was ‘and of course, my personal feelings don’t constitute a valid reason’. Almost as if she was implying she would fire her if she wasn’t excellent/unimpeachable.

        2. L-squared*

          I feel its something she is seriously considering. She says it directly, multiple times. She wants to do it for personal reasons

      4. Yellow*

        I agree. I highly doubt the LW really wants to fire Jane. Frustration, jealousy, an feelings of being inferior are driving this letter. I’m hoping that just getting this all out helps the LW to feel a little more in control.

        1. yelena*

          What happened to taking OP for their word? If OP says she wants to fire Jane, she wants to fire Jane.

          1. L-squared*

            I guess we only take them at their word when it makes them look better. IF it makes them look worse, then we are supposed to just project our own feelings onto what they REALLY mean

            1. Gerry Keay*

              Or maybe assuming best intent and giving LW’s benefit of the doubt is a way to keep this comment section from becoming the same sort of toxic sludge that every other internet comment section is? These rules, to my understanding, aren’t about finding the objective truth of a situation (literally unknowable from our vantage point) but instead are about creating an environment where advice is given in a constructive and kind manner.

              1. yelena*

                You can give advice in a constructive and kind manner while taking OP at their word, which is what the rules state.

      5. Observer*

        My read on this letter is that LW isn’t so much asking if she can fire Jane (she knows she can’t) as asking for tips on how to manage her while dealing with her own burnout and emotional struggles

        I’m not sure you are right about that. The OP notes that they would not have hired Jane in the first place.

        2. Lydia*

          I don’t think it would have been for the same reasons, though. OP says Jane has a Master’s degree and came from a much different professional background. Based on that, there are plenty of people who wouldn’t have hired Jane to be a cashier at a bakery.

          1. Mistress of Arts*

            Why in the world should education be a hindrance to working a frontline customer service position ? In a similar situation, I was told by my first manager in my first post-college job that ” your pre employment screening IQ scores were higher than we are comfortable with for this position, but we are going to make an exception and hire you anyway with an extended probation”…because apparently in their opinion everyone with a high IQ has a low EQ.
            There’s no correlation between higher levels of education and lower levels of customer service.

            1. Properlike*

              I’ve also heard this a lot. But Jane clearly takes on all the jobs no one else wants and has a great attitude.

              Meanwhile, students have a reputation for not showing up on time or at all, being on their phones all the time, being rude, etc. Better not to take the risk by hiring ANY students. Or only hire the ones who are C students. (I got turned down for a job as a student because I was on the honor roll and was informed during the interview that they wouldn’t hire me because I would always be missing work to study.)

            2. Socially Socialist*

              You said that, not me. My point was that overqualification is a thing hiring managers do pay attention to, and in this case, the LW might have given a pass to Jane for that reason. What a weird take. (IQ is also BS.)

      6. Anonymoustoast*

        Same. I’m a little curious how we managed to get (paraphrased) “it’s okay to feel your feelings” and “I’d likely fire you if I were your boss and knew you thought this way” in the same response. Are we allowed to have “it’s not fair” INTERNAL pity-parties or is that a fireable offense now?

        OP is reaching out because they know this isn’t rational. If they thought it was rational, they would have acted on it. I don’t know if there were more specific details in the letter that Alison read but couldn’t include that are influencing this response, but this response startled me with a level of harshness I don’t usually see here.

        1. Clobberin' Time*

          “If they thought it was rational, they would have acted on it” – no, the LW makes clear that she thinks her feelings about Jane are justified, and that she hasn’t fired Jane purely because she can’t point to any good cause for doing so. It’s not “harsh” to take the LW at her very clear word.

        2. Berin*

          Yeah could not agree more. The impression I got was very much that “I know this isn’t right, and I need help figuring out how to get right with it.” Maybe I’m giving OP too much of the benefit of the doubt, but geez. I don’t see much actionable help in this response, just berating.

            1. Justice*

              The actionable help is “pull yourself together”.
              This LW is letting her (justifiable or unjustifiable) feelings of unfairness color the way she treats an employee that she herself says is nice, professional, and taking undesirable shifts(!).
              If she’s so bitter about the fact that this lady happens to have a better situation than her, that’s her own problem, by definition.

              1. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

                How is “pull yourself together” valuable advice to someone who clearly is struggling to navigate these emotions? I’m not saying it’s the wrong thought, but by itself it does little to help the OP. (There are other pieces of advice Alison gives that are action-focused and of more help, but just (metaphorically) saying “Snap out of it!” doesn’t really help anyone.)

                1. Boof*

                  IDK what other advice is there – the clear advice is “you cannot act on these feelings and probably need to find a way to reign them in more”. Allison even clearly spells out why feelings are human but can also start to cross a line where they’re probably clouding judgement and action “You’re human, you’re going to have those feelings sometimes. That’s not the problem. The problem is that you’re not applying any critical thinking, or ethics, to those feelings at all — you’re just letting yourself indulge them, and when you do that in a job where you have power over other people’s lives, you can very quickly become a Terrible Human. ” (though I personally would leave out terrible human -maybe just terrible manager)

        3. Eldritch Office Worker*

          There’s a difference between “man I wish I could fire this person” (scream into the void) and “if I had any justifiable cause I would definitely fire this person”, which seems to be where OP is coming from.

          I don’t know that OP really knows they’re being irrational. I think OP really thinks circumstances are building against them in an unfair and intolerable way – up to and including not being able to fire someone they absolutely want to fire.

          1. Dust Bunny*

            Yeah, this. I don’t think the OP has completely grasped that, yes, she can feel what she feels, but that’s not grounds for firing Jane. I think the main reason the OP hasn’t fired Jane is because the OP doesn’t have the authority to do it, not because the OP has gotten a handle on her resentment.

          2. Velociraptor Attack*

            I think that’s fair.

            I also wonder if this is a situation where because there’s no reason, OP has this narrative in her head where OF COURSE if there were a justifiable reason she would fire them… but there’s not, so it turns into essentially an “I wish I could fire them!!” internal scream but it seems a lot harsher than that.

          3. Me ... Just Me*

            The truth is that the OP doesn’t appear to have made the same type of sacrifices/decisions earlier in their career/life that Jane has, but is upset that Jane has outstripped her in earnings. Jane appears to have gone to college and gotten a master’s degree. That’s a whole lot of work and money. It doesn’t make her any “better” than OP but it’s difficult to understand the resentment here. Different life choices lead to different outcomes.

            1. Observer*

              That’s truly unfair.

              You don’t know why the OP didn’t get a Masters. You don’t know that Jane made any sacrifices to get that Masters. You don’t know ANYTHING that supports your narrative. On the other hand, we DO know a lot about factors that are totally out of the realm of the OP’s choices.

              Refusing to acknowledge this and blaming the OP for everything that is out of their control is both unkind and actively unhelpful.

              1. Shenandoah*

                We also know that the OP has a MISPLACED sense of jealously and that Jane SHOULDN’T be held responsible for it.

                1. Observer*

                  I agree. I’ve said that multiple times. But that doesn’t make it ok to blame her for something that is not her fault.

                  What is happening in her town is not due to her making bad choices. Telling her that her choices are the problem here when that is not the case, is not going to be helpful. All it will do is make her feel worse.

              2. Me ... Just Me*

                Committing to 6+ years of higher education is a sacrifice. That’s a whole lot of work. And, it’s expensive. People like to make light of it, but pursuing a master’s degree is work.

                And, nobody is “blaming the OP for everything that is out of their control”. We don’t even know if not getting a degree was out of OPs control — she could have just decided that she didn’t want to do it. That’s very much in her control.

                I think it odd that one wants to think the very best of the OP while somehow painting Jane quite differently.

                1. Observer*

                  That’s not what I said nor implied.

                  We don’t know that Jane sacrificed anything because we don’t know how her Masters was paid for and what her alternatives were. So, maybe she did sacrifice and maybe she didn’t. Even if she didn’t, that doesn’t make her a bad person. And it certainly is not OK for the OP to want to fire her. But it just makes no sense to make assumptions.

                  On the other hand, we DO know that the changes in housing prices in the OP’s town are most definitely NOT her fault. The gentrification that is at the core of her current struggle is a systemic issue that really CANNOT be reasonably blames on her choices, good or bad.

                2. Splendid Colors*

                  The time and labor (and possibly missing out on family/friends events) invested in a master’s degree is nothing to brush off even if a fairy godmother paid for everything.

            2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

              @Observer, totally agree.

              And I’ll add, being raised in a socio-economic class that can afford college and graduate school isn’t a choice.

        4. L-squared*

          I feel the harshness is warranted.

          The fact that it seems LW has a stellar employee, who because of petty jealousy, she wants to fire does make me question her judgment.

          Having internal feelings is one thing, considering acting on those feelings is totally different.

          1. Totally Minnie*

            This. As a supervisor in a previous job, one of my direct reports was pretty much everything I dislike in people. If there’s a way for a person to push my buttons, she had it. And yeah, it was irritating and I ranted about her to my friends and family on a regular basis. But I never strayed into the power fantasy of “I sure wish I could fire her.”

            And part of me thinks a power fantasy is exactly where this originated for the LW. Being around this person makes her feel inadequate and disempowered and she’s trying to find a way to feel even keeled again, and her brain has latched onto “make this person go away” as the easiest solution. But that’s not a solution that’s available here. LW needs to find a way to deal with those feelings of jealousy and inadequacy.

        5. Robin*

          Alison was not saying “feeling resentful would make me fire you”. She was saying that finding out a report was genuinely considering firing somebody over their feelings of resentment would be cause for Alison to really think about whether the role was appropriate for this person.

          And honestly, I think that is more fair than not.

          1. Hlao-roo*

            Yes, I read it as “OK to feel your feelings” referred to feeling a little resentful of Jane, and frustrated at the broader trend of people with high-salary remote jobs moving to this city and pushing up the cost of living. The “I’d likely fire you if I were your boss and knew you thought this way” refers to thinking about firing Jane because of the resentment.

          2. turquoisecow*

            If I’ve hired you to manage people and you want to fire someone just because they have a life that makes you jealous, I think it’s reasonable for me to wonder whether you’re suited for a management role.

            Being a good manager means putting aside your personal feelings and managing people fairly. You don’t give a raise to Bob because he’s your best friend or in your golf club or went to your college or you just like the cut of his jib, and you don’t fire Jane because she has more money and a nicer house than you. If the LW can’t get past that then maybe they shouldn’t be managing people.

        6. WellRed*

          Internal pity parties are one thing but if it reaches the point where it’s noticed by others, that’s a problem. There have been letters here to that effect.

        7. HomebodyHouseplant*

          Agreed, I feel a lot of sympathy for the LW. I feel like Alison’s response was very one sided. As a person who’s quality of life is actively being affected by transplants moving to an already crowded HCOL area (my state was the state with the second highest amount of transplants last year), I understand her struggle. It is difficult to not be resentful in this type of economic situation. Obviously you can’t go through life taking that out on people out of jealousy and frustration but this response really lacks kindness and actionable ways for the LW to maybe redirect that ire elsewhere.

          1. zinzarin*

            A lot of people in this particular thread are suggesting Alison needed to give more “actionable” advice to the LW. What does that even mean? What kind of “actionable” advice would you have liked to have seen?

            I think the advice Alison gave (view this situation through a non-villain lens) is plenty actionable. I think it’s spot on. Alison commonly gives advice to manager-mentors to not soften the message. This is Alison following her own advice. LW clearly didn’t write in to hear that she was in the wrong, but explaining clearly that LW actually *is* in the wrong is a direct message, and the kindest advice that Alison can give.

        8. I should really pick a name*

          Because the LW’s feelings are not compatible with being able to manage someone effectively. They’re feelings are so strong that it’s difficult to believe that they aren’t bleeding over their behaviour.

          An internal pity party is one things, but if the LW doesn’t address their feelings, this probably isn’t going to stay internal for long.

          The LW themself has implied that the only reason they haven’t fired the employee is that it would be impractical.

        9. Starbuck*

          Feeling your feelings doesn’t mean you get to vocalize them to everyone, or act on them. Internal is fine – how would anyone know? That’s the point, it’s not a contradiction – LW can feel that way, but yeah if it gets to the point where she talks about feeling that way to anyone at work or lets those feelings color her actions, yes understandably she might get fired!

        10. Observer*

          Are we allowed to have “it’s not fair” INTERNAL pity-parties or is that a fireable offense now?

          That’s not what Allison was addressing, though. Yes, the OP gets to have their internal pity party, if they won’t. But seriously thinking of firing? That’s a totally different issue.

        11. RR*

          Agree with the advice written here completely but wonder if it could have been written with a bit more compassion. This sounds like a frustrating situation, and I know how infuriating it can be to the on the bad side of inequality. Sometimes it makes you irrational, and a reality check can be helpful.

          I like your tip for jealousy and have one of my own to add. One thing my dad always said to me that I think about every time I get jealous is you can’t actually tell people’s financial situations from their lifestyle. Maybe Jane has a lot of debt. Maybe they don’t make as much as you think but just want to flaunt it. Maybe she has a lot of hidden bills like student loans or finances for an ill parent to manage. I hope not but you get my point. People often live beyond their means or want to appear as if they have more than they do. Count your own blessings and admit you don’t really know Jane’s situation, only what she presents, and she’s likely only presenting her best self.

      7. Clobberin' Time*

        The LW didn’t say “how do I deal with my own emotions and burnout so I can manage Jane effectively?” She complained that she can’t fire Jane, and asked how she can manage Jane when the situation is not “fair”.

        LW is several steps behind behind the self-aware gloss that you are generously putting on her letter.

      8. Olive*

        I think some of why people are interpreting this letter in different ways is coming from the polish of the letter vs. the feelings explained in the letter.

        Even though the LW says she would like to fire Jane, the tone of the letter overall comes across as somewhat dispassionate to me – carefully written rather than oozing emotion. There’s nothing wrong with that, but often the emotion is tangible when LWs are angry or upset. This restrained sensibility adds some ambiguity to how much she’s asking for help doing self-work vs. how much she’s looking for validation in hating Jane. She never takes that final step of acknowledging that she knows her attitude is unjust toward Jane (I’d fire her BUT… and “it’s not fair”) and we letter readers are adding it in or leaving it out as we read.

      9. MissGirl*

        I’m getting a strong vibe of the LW who treated her employee poorly who was beautiful when the OP had serious self image issues. She would’ve never hired the employee and deep down wished she could fire her.

        She could not conceal her animosity. That ended very very badly for the LW.

      10. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

        I dunno, based on how she wrote it, it sounds like she does want to fire her and just cannot work out how to do it. That is certainly how she phrased the question.

    2. Eeyore is my spirit animal*

      Really? I didn’t think it was warm or helpful. I hope the LW reads the comments. There is much better stuff there.

      1. Elizabeth Naismith*

        It was far more warm and helpful than the comments in the letter merited. Alison reminded LW of what a decent, ethical manager needs to do, and called on her to behave accordingly. But she also didn’t shy away from pointing out that her thoughts at the moment are bordering on villainous, and will get her fired if she doesn’t learn to control them.
        Someone’s financial background is not up for consideration in the hiring process. And jealousy is never a good look, especially in a manager.

      2. Courageous cat*

        I’m confused as to what’s with some people here insisting lately that everything must be warm and/or generous and/or charitable? Sometimes advice is blunt – and sometimes that’s why you write in asking for the advice.

    3. Preach!*

      Amen! Wisdom for work and life right here: “It’s okay to feel your feelings. Sometimes you might feel jealous of someone, or resentful, or upset that something doesn’t seem fair. You’re human, you’re going to have those feelings sometimes. That’s not the problem. The problem is that you’re not applying any critical thinking, or ethics, to those feelings at all — you’re just letting yourself indulge them, and when you do that in a job where you have power over other people’s lives, you can very quickly become a Terrible Human. As a manager, you have a moral and a professional obligation to recognize when you’re in danger of that happening and rein yourself in.”

  3. Tiptoe*

    Even if you could fire her without negative consequences for yourself, how would you feel afterwards?

    1. Overit*

      Smug.
      I bet she would feel smug.
      I say that because my economically depressed hometown underwent a renaissance about 15 years ago. Now “locals” who did not make a mint on the changes (and many did!) struggle to live there. I know these locals. Local business owners avoid hiring newcomers and fire tham as soon as they can. Generally, I see their smug happiness when bad stuff happens to newcomers.
      Not a good look and makes me glad I left.

      2. Loch Lomond*

        Yeah, people who haven’t worked a lot of self-reflection into their habits can take a really long time to get those conscience pangs, if ever.

      4. Richard Hershberger*

        What jumped out at me is that had the LW bought a house in 2019, they would be a winner. The value of the house would be rising along with the economy of the town, which in turn provides her with her job. Economic disparity is a very real problem, but keeping the local economy depressed is not the solution.

        1. Lydia*

          Uh, no. Gentrification (which is essentially what’s happening to OP’s town) does not generally benefit the people living in the towns and neighborhoods already. Even if the OP had been able to purchase a home in 2019, it wouldn’t solve the issue of having an entire town experiencing significant disparity very suddenly. And her income would still be depressed. This is definitely not it.

          1. Pescadero*

            “Gentrification (which is essentially what’s happening to OP’s town) does not generally benefit the people living in the towns and neighborhoods already.”

            It definitely benefits SOME of them… and why should we only consider benefit towards people already living there, while ignoring the new residents and future resident?

            I mean increasing tax bases often more services for everyone, better schools for everyone, etc.

            1. John*

              Yeah, it seems like people are against gentrification would like people to remain where they were in the past – but in the past society was even more stratified, especially when it comes to race.

              Like if you live in a picturesque seaside village with a low cost of living, it makes sense that you’d be upset when prices go up, but what’s the alternative? Only people who were born there get to live there? Should everyone be fixed where their families lived in 1950? Because that would be a whole lot less equitable than even our current, broken system.

              1. Splendid Colors*

                How about newcomers who buy homes in that village DON’T throw 2X the asking price at the owner to avoid having to compete with locals?

          2. commonsensesometimesmakessense*

            If she owned the house and the mortgage was set and could pay the mortgage, gentrification would likely increase the value of the home to higher than it was when she bought it, and it would more quickly become higher in value than the amount owed on the loan, which would give her equity. So that might benefit her substantially. Though obviously it depends on many factors, but the commenter is not wrong.

        2. Starbuck*

          Not necessarily; you don’t “win” until you sell. Until then, it’s just gonna cost you – you’re paying higher property taxes on that increased “value” until maybe you can’t afford it anymore. It’s not really a good thing, we shouldn’t be treating housing as an investment pyramid scheme.

          1. Captain Vegetable (Crunch Crunch Crunch)*

            Yes- and you have to live somewhere. If you sell your higher value house, can you afford to buy another? Or pay the inflated rents in your town?

          2. Bread Crimes*

            Yeah, my spouse and I bought a house during a market downturn, and now our area is booming… and it’s a major struggle to keep up with the increasing property taxes. Sure, on paper, our house is worth so! much! more! but that doesn’t pay the bills, and if we sell, we could never live inside that city again; we couldn’t buy something comparable with payments we could reliably make. It’s great for house-flippers and big investment companies and people who want to move out of the city. Not so much for people who just want to continue paying the mortgage and be able to afford repairs. And most of my local friends have already moved or are looking to move because they can’t afford living in the city anymore either.

          3. Splendid Colors*

            In California, your property taxes are based on the value of the house when you bought it. This is why the state and counties are underfunded.

        3. Not Totally Subclinical*

          My house is now worth six times what I paid for it — and my property tax has gone up accordingly. I pay more in property tax alone than I paid for PMI plus tax when I bought the house.

          It doesn’t do me any good to have a more valuable house unless I’m planning to sell it. If I want to live in the house long-term, rapidly-rising property values do me no good.

      5. Mallory Janis Ian*

        It’s starting to get that way in my town, too, as wealthy outsiders buy up all the properties as AirBnB or to charge exorbitant rents on. Local people who don’t already have homes can’t afford them, and they would not feel one bit sorry if one of the outsiders got what they viewed as any type of comeuppance.

        1. Lizzo*

          Do you think the locals would feel differently if those properties were being purchased for the owners to live in (vs. rent out)?

          1. Mallory Janis Ian*

            I don’t know. I know a lot of the properties are also being purchased as rental properties by more well-to-do locals, as well. The resentment I’ve heard expressed is that these people’s buying 2nd, 3rd, etc. homes is making it where some people can’t afford to buy their first home. The downtown used to be where many service workers lived (restaurants, etc.) and now they are priced out of being able to rent there. They used to afford to live there and rely on the walkability of the downtown; now they have to live further and transportation becomes an additional hurdle.

            1. goddessoftransitory*

              And you can bet that the people buying up the houses/condos are the first to complain that “no one wants to work” when they can’t get reliable service. Well, no, they just don’t want a three hour commute to their restaurant job.

          2. Eyes Kiwami*

            This definitely makes an impact. Smaller single-occupant apartments or starter homes for small families are often turned into rent-out AirBnBs. That means there are fewer of those for young single people and new families. Instead of having those young people as available workforce and tax contributors, they get some tourist dollars. But tourism is not as stable. The young families have kids that go to the schools and become part of the community; tourists create traffic and can damage historical and natural sites without precautions. There is a big difference that emerges in the community.

      6. Morgan Proctor*

        Yep, I see this happening in my town. Lots of “locals” who are just out-of-their-mind jealous and enraged at newcomers. These “locals” are the same people who did nothing to contribute to the betterment of their community or themselves before the newcomers moved in, and refuse to do anything about it now, either. I put “locals” in scare quotes because our state has a huge population of Native people, and the people complaining are not Native, and they don’t see the irony in this at all.

        1. High Score!*

          The city I live in was very nice and well cared for by the “locals”. Then some large companies arrived and the “gentrification” began. Now our roads are congested, there’s more rental properties than homes with some neighborhoods being eradicated in favor of tiny over priced apartments. Even though we voted for the best candidates are could they’re still all corrupt and sold out city out to large corporations that we give tax breaks to. Everyone here gets paid well above minimum wage but if you are working a service job, it’s still not enough.

        2. arthur lester*

          Hah, nothing drives me crazier than the “but I’m a naaaative” shit from people who are Distinctly Anything But.
          My family has been in a pretty booming metro area for…pretty much as long as white people have lived here. It doesn’t mean we’re native. We’re still white.

      7. NotAnotherManager!*

        Which would be pretty silly because it sounds like, even if Jane lost her bakery job, she’d still be living in a large, new build house on sabbatical from her big-time job, and it would have little impact on her life at all.

        It’s the definition of cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face as OP would be left without reliable staffing undesirable shifts, losing a high-performing and well-liked team member, and missing out on the light mentoring that it sounds like Jane is doing for them.

    2. Khatul Madame*

      It would make the LW feel good, gratified, vindicated, and powerful.
      However, the LW will remain in the same strained financial circumstances, may have to work more because she’s down one employee, and the loss of the bakery wage will barely register for Jane.

      1. Be kind, rewind*

        I think you really hit on something with “powerful” here. OP probably feels like so much is out of their control, and their job is one of the places they have real power.

    3. Well...*

      Relief. Eventually followed by guilt (though tbh it’s hard to feel that guilty, it seems like Jane will be fine).

        1. Well...*

          I’m not saying it’s the right thing, it’s just what people think they will feel after making a problem go away. They often are hoping for relief, however misguided they may be.

    5. I'm fabulous!*

      OP may feel a sense of winning but she’ll have to deal with filing shifts that no one wants. I also wonder if the bakery will have to pay unemployment to Jane if OP fires her.

    6. Tiptoe*

      Wow, I was thinking something like “well, my life hasn’t improved, she is happy somewhere else, firing her was pointless.” I am probably naive.

      2. Loch Lomond*

        People motivated by spite may be judging success by “I really stuck it to her!” rather than the “… and then my circumstances materially improved” part (which doesn’t come).

      3. Lavender*

        That’s likely how they’d end up feeling eventually, even if their immediate reaction is relief.

    7. bamcheeks*

      kind of fascinated by the wide variety of responses to this question! Everyone is bringing a lot of different things to this letter.

      1. Julia*

        Definitely. The question of how the LW would feel if they fired Jane is one they should think about deeply. In this situation how I felt would probably change many times and would depend on what happened after I did it.

    8. Carpe Librarium*

      I wonder if LW thinks they’ll feel judicious, as now the cashier job could be offered to someone in town who “needs it more”.

  4. ZSD*

    OP, I hope writing this was therapeutic for you! I can 100% understand why your gut reaction is to feel resentful. But I also hope that the act of writing down your thoughts, plus reading Alison’s advice, has helped you realize that you need to compartmentalize and treat this employee just like any other.

    2. ferrina*

      +1

      I really hope the LW is able to lean on a strong support system. These are tough emotions (and a tough situation!), but LW needs to get a handle on it and be a good manager.

      It doesn’t seem like it, but there is an opportunity here. Jane is giving you management tips, but you can also share information with Jane. Tell her what it’s like to be on this single income. I deeply appreciate the people that shared their experiences and situations with me when I was in food service and blue collar work–it shaped the empathy that I have in my white collar work. I’m the colleague that says “hey, how will this impact people that don’t make corporate salaries? What about folks that can’t afford that?” Some of my peers don’t think about it (and some just have never been friends with a blue collar worker, because social bubbles are real)- I’m the one reminding them of the world outside their own experience. This is how advocates are trained.

      1. Properlike*

        And if LW uses those tips, and shows herself to be a good manager, and runs the business well for the owner, then I predict that Jane becomes someone who would bring up LW’s name one day when she hears of a company hiring who could use her skill set.

        Write out what you would want Jane to say to a future employer of yours, and then work to embody those qualities.

  5. Kaiko*

    It’s so easy to assign the failures of a system to individuals, but Jane isn’t the problem here – and neither are you.

    I feel for you, LW: we’re also in a small town that that has seen housing prices explode as people move here from “the city,” especially during the pandemic. I know what it’s like to see housing prices double, to see the rental market constrict, to feel less-than in a place that usually feels just right. (And really, going to city hall or your state/provincial representative with your concerns about the housing market is a much more effective channel for this feelings than firing a competent employee.)

    The only way you will feel more secure in your own finances is by putting blinders on – watch your own budgets, pay your own bills, and manage your own savings. Don’t compare to anyone else, because you can’t change anyone else’s situation. Jane is no less fabulous because she has more money, just as you are no less worthy because you have less.

    1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

      Yeah, the prices and wages of the locals will probably increase somewhat as a result, but with a significant lag. I did think maybe the LW could ask for a raise given the increase in COL.

      1. WillowSunstar*

        This may depend on the company. For example, I work for a corporation and we were told this past fall that our raises would not be affected by COL, it was all performance-based. I don’t think that’s entirely fair since inflation is not something any of us have control over, and most people’s raises are not enough to maintain their previous standard of living.

        1. Observer*

          Well, they may say that. But despite the slowing of the economy, companies do get pushed into adjusting prices to account for COL in a number of ways. And also, even with a slowing economy, good workers DO move if those adjustments don’t get made by the company they are at.

        2. BluRae*

          Yup. Management literally said to us, “Well you wouldn’t want us to decrease everyone’s pay in the event of deflation would you???”

          Buddy, when that actually happens maybe we can cross that bridge. Moron. That response really tanked a lot of my good will towards this company.

        4. World Weary*

          The problem I have with this statement is how rarely wages are actually tied to performance. I single handedly completed an implementation that was supposed to take a team of four. I was judged satisfactory on my review. 1% raise.

    2. Robin*

      +1

      Advocate with local government; your feelings are a response to systemic nonsense and ultimately resolving them requires systemic change. Jane just happens to be the most obvious example of how those inequities are affecting your home.

      1. Well...*

        Maybe burning off some energy in activism will help LW deal with their emotions toward Jane. I don’t think it’s going to concretely improve LW’s circumstances any time soon though.

        1. Robin*

          Oh absolutely not an immediate change; I did not mean to imply that. But activism can help with resolving the current emotions. And, hopefully, in theory, etc., it can push towards a situation down the line (how far? who knows) where those feelings need not take root because the inequities that fostered them are reduced/mitigated/eliminated.

    3. Smithy*

      Yeah….so I work in the nonprofit industry that both does and doesn’t pay. It’s hardly a case where we “all” make peanuts, but it more often than not ends up being a case where people who can afford things unpaid internships, moving to cities or countries without a job, etc. find themselves in positions to get those better and or better paid jobs at a younger age.

      OR

      When I’ve taken the lower paying job at the smaller nonprofit that does really important work, and I have a coworker or two who’s lifestyle is largely unaffected because they have family money to augment the salary. And sure, writing all this down in the abstract – it’s easy to say to not be jealous and be unaffected. But we’re people and when we’re struggling, lashing out at one or two people we know is often a lot easier than “the system”.

      So just to say, this is a really normal reaction and also one of the many reasons why it can be good to have more boundaries from coworkers than other people in our lives. Having generically positive relationships with our coworkers helps us out SO much more than having antagonistic ones with them. Especially when they’re driven by our own emotional baggage.

    4. CTT*

      I also live in a smaller area that got a lot of “best place for remote work!” attention; I’m in BigLaw and make good money for where I live, and I can’t compete with all the people coming from big cities who are driving up prices. It sucks and it’s so difficult not to feel resentful, but it’s not the fault of just one person. Not seeing Jane every day won’t solve the problem.

    5. Gamer Girl*

      As someone with some fancy tech money, keep in mind that people might be moving for their health, for their children, for many other reasons. In my case, we moved because we needed to find a place that can house our children plus stretch to accommodate aging parents within the next 5-10 years. We went from being able to afford to buy a bigger apartment in the city with extra bedrooms to a tripling in price since the pandemic hit in our big city, so we moved to a suburb with much lower COL instead.

      In Jane’s case, I imagine that she didn’t take a sabbatical for nothing. You can’t know what she’s dealing with, OP, but Kaiko’s advice is spot-on. Focus on what you can do for you, and vote according to representatives that are going to take on high COL and inflation issues and protect the housing market from big corporations.

  6. Sara*

    OP I really feel for you, it sounds like you’re in a very tough financial situation and Jane has become the living embodiment for your feelings towards it. You’re letting this eat you alive, you need to find a new outlet or a way to redirect that envy and anger. Easier said than done, I know, but the alternative is letting it manifest at work in unhealthy ways. Jane is doing her best with whatever life has thrown at her, she is not the cause of your issues. And while she’s giving you small glimpses into her life, you truly don’t know what is going on with her – why she’s on sabbatical, what that pay is, her own financial situation, etc. It might be better to just remove her from your social circle and remain a professional contact.

    1. londonedit*

      This is what I was thinking. OP is assuming they ‘know’ about Jane and that Jane is a rich blow-in from the big city swanning about in her big house taking money from her sabbatical and treating the bakery job like a bit of petty cash. In reality, OP has no idea whether Jane is on sabbatical for health reasons, whether she and her husband have saddled themselves with a giant mortgage to buy their new-build house, whether she has money because both her beloved parents died and she’d give anything to have them back, whether they’ve moved to a lower-COL area because they’re still paying back debts from 20 years ago…you just don’t know. Or in fact Jane and her husband could indeed simply be wealthy and enjoying their money and she could be doing the bakery job to stop herself getting bored. That still wouldn’t mean she doesn’t deserve the job.

      It seems like Jane is a pleasant, conscientious worker who’s willing to pick up the slack when other people aren’t – that’s what the OP needs to focus on while they’re at work. When they’re not at work, they should focus on trying to think about Jane as little as possible.

      1. Shenandoah*

        “It seems like Jane is a pleasant, conscientious worker who’s willing to pick up the slack when other people aren’t…”

        —————-

        It really is just that straightforward.

      2. Going Nameless This Time*

        (I’m a regular commenter who’s going anonymous this time since my financial situation is no one’s business)

        I’m a Jane, minus the transplant stuff. When I got laid off during Covid, I took it as a sign from above that I needed to be done being a stressed professional. Inherited money + a lifetime of conscientious spending has made it possible for me to not go back to professional work. I do work a “fun” part-time job for spending money though. I’d say half of the staff is in the “working three jobs to make the rent” category and the other half is in the “looking for fun and fun money” camp. I’ve been very, very careful to not say anything to put me in one camp or the other. For example, I find it very disrespectful to discuss an upcoming warm weather vacation in front of people barely making enough to eat properly – so I just say I’m taking some time off to visit “friends” (my warm weather “friends” are manatees LOL)

        In this letter, it sounds like Jane is doing the same thing – working a PT job for a little extra cash and to get out into the world with people. The only thing she might do a bit better is to be more circumspect about her personal wealth. It sounds like she might have invited the whole bakery staff to the Christmas party at her beautiful home – personally, I would not have done that.

        1. Elizabeth Naismith*

          And she probably thought it would be rude nit to invite her coworkers. In many types of work, you host a big party like that, and you invite e eryone, because leaving folks out would be rude and would definitely cause resentment. You invite your coworkers to such things. So it likely never occurred to Jane that such a thing could be seen as flaunting her wealth; it’s just what you do.

          1. Bee*

            Right, the flip side of this is “ah, she didn’t invite her embarrassing minimum-wage coworkers from the job she has for fun because she doesn’t want her rich friends to know about them,” which I personally would be much more concerned about as an unintended message if I were hosting a party!

            1. Courageous cat*

              Lol, right?? Oh my god imagine finding out someone didn’t invite you to a party solely because they were worried they’d feel sensitive that they’re poorer than you. *That* would be something to be pissed off about.

        2. turquoisecow*

          If she’s never been in this situation before she might not realize that it’s uncomfortable for LW. She’s just thinking “I like old friends and LW seems nice and I’d like them to be a new friend. Let me get all my friends together!”

          My husband comes from a slightly more well off family than I do, and is in a lucrative field. Coming from the less well off background, I’m VERY cautious about how to discuss privileges and such around my family or friends, because I don’t want them to feel like I’m flaunting or bragging. But husband is pretty much around people of a similar economic background, so sometimes he will say things like “oh, get (expensive solution) to solve that problem!” and genuinely not realize that expensive solution is not going to work for the person he’s talking to.

          Jane might come from a background where she isn’t used to having to think about that, or her friends do, or they didn’t realize the LW’s financial situation if LW hasn’t discussed it with them. I can see why that would make LW uncomfortable or not want to spend time with Jane or her friends socially. Totally fine. But you can’t fire someone over that.

          1. Bearly Containing Myself*

            Ha, I’m imagining someone saying “I’m so overwhelmed with my 3 jobs, I don’t have time to schedule the visit from the utility company” and someone like your husband replying “Just have your personal assistant handle it!”

        3. Also nameless this time*

          Same. I got a lengthy severance pre-COVID instead of suing a former employer for egregious ADA violations. My mental health took a real beating and I couldn’t handle my industry for a while, but I still needed some structure to keep myself from melding with the couch 24/7. I took a part-time evening shift opening at the nonprofit I’d been volunteering with for years. I did all the dirty work asked of me (and endured things like mild electrocution and an ear infection as a result) and I earned my pay.

          I am not the type to talk about money (I grew up under the poverty line), and I’m way too introverted to have people from that many circles over. I was able to spend a month visiting family overseas (very HCOL area) between that part-time job and the next industry job I took, however… Which I did so that my mother would be able to spend time with her mother. It would be the last time we got to spend with Oma as she passed away less than a year later. I have a lot of privilege and I try to stay mindful of that, but I’m also multiply disabled, with enough workplace mistreatment to include CPTSD.

      3. Mergj*

        I think this is spot on. I’ve found that when someone seems to have it all on the outside often their true situation or inner life isn’t so great. I have to wonder what caused Jane to take a year long sabbatical and what kind of position she held that would pay her to do so- in my experience that isn’t common even in hard to hire tech roles so I’m guessing she must have been in a particularly high stress position. I’m guessing that if you knew more about the circumstances leading to her sabbatical her life would seem a lot less ideal. (Her resistance to taking on management duties seems to hint that things might have been rough in her former role).

        I really feel for you- you’re right that it isn’t fair and it sounds like you’ve had the rug pulled out from under you in the way that your cost of living has increased. I think your anger toward Jane, who is just a symbol of these changes not the cause, is a good sign that you need to take a look at your own life and figure out what might need to change. A good first step might be to ask for a raise since your salary no longer goes as far. You might also start asking yourself some bigger life questions- are you happy with your job and career trajectory? If not, are there steps you could take to change it? Are there lifestyle changes you want to make that would make you happier? It sounds like buying a house is a goal but that’s financially out of reach right now- is there anything you or your partner could do to make it a little less out of reach? (Maybe a side hustle or looking at fixer uppers/ smaller places?). Maybe none of these questions will yield anything for you, but I’ve found that I sometimes focus on what other people have when I’m dissatisfied with my own circumstances and it’s a cue to re-examine my own life.

        1. Elizabeth Naismith*

          Good point. LW might love working at the bakery, but will that job provide the lifestyle they want? Obviously not. So LW needs to ask the tough question: is it more important to work at the bakery, or to improve my lifestyle?
          If the first, then LW needs to chill out, assess her own finances instead of Jane’s, and work on being the best manager of the best bakery with the best employees. That means keeping Jane, as long as possible.
          If the second, perhaps LW needs to start looking at other types of employment, and possibly taking courses to qualify for something higher paying. If those remote worker transplants can move to LW’s town, there’s nothing stopping LW from doing similar work herself. And getting paid just as much.

          1. Properlike*

            I keep coming back to LW’s “she gets paid TWICE!” as what’s unfair. LW could also be paid twice if she got a second job. I’m guessing it won’t pay as much, and that’s the unfair part (she’s not wrong, but that’s not Jane’s fault.)

            1. wordswords*

              I mean, being paid twice because you’re working two jobs is different than being paid twice because you’re working one job while collecting paid time off for two solid years from the other.

              Now, as others have said, we don’t actually know that that’s Jane’s situation! “Sabbatical” can cover a whole range, including something unpaid or minimally paid, and it could be due to serious physical or mental health issues that don’t interfere with her bakery work, and so on. But it seems pretty clear to me that LW’s resentment on that front is because of the assumption that Jane is getting full-time big-city money on her sabbatical and doesn’t even need the wages that are barely making ends meet for the LW.

              1. Courageous cat*

                But like… does any of that really matter, the “why”? She qualified for the job and she does the job, she has every right to be there.

                1. wordswords*

                  It doesn’t, I agree! Like, I do understand why it matters emotionally to OP feeling resentful when they’re staring at their bank account balance and thinking about a gentrifying city person making double pay in a nice house, but that’s absolutely not the kind of thinking that OP can afford to hang onto as a manager about a coworker, let alone one of the employees working under them. It’s emotionally understandable, but OP still needs to find ways to reframe it and disengage from it in order to treat a good, competent, willing employee fairly, regardless of how much or how little Jane might need the money (which isn’t really OP’s business, no matter how hard it feels to ignore).

          2. Stripes*

            Wait, wait, wait.
            To say, “if you don’t like what you’re earning, you need to reconsider your job and move/train into a better paying one” – I’m sorry, but that is tone deaf.
            So many people would LOVE to be able to move into a better paying field, by retraining or not, but find that it’s not possible. Usually because of financial barriers, sometimes because of health/disability or caring committments, often a mix of barriers. There just isn’t enough spare money to make a complex situation work and have everyone sheltered, clothed and fed for the time you’d spend retraining and establishing a new career.
            If you’ve not thought of this, then I am genuinely glad for you that you’ve never had to think of this, but please be aware that your advice here has a hint of “if you’re not well off, you need to take responsibility for your situation and make yourself well off!”, which is…unhelpful.

            1. Splendid Colors*

              And LW probably doesn’t have a wide range of employers in town that pay people substantially more than “bakery manager” wages if it’s the kind of town I have in mind.

              I went to school in a small college town. The university, the hospital, and a flower-growing company were the top three employers. If the university hadn’t been there, the town would have been less than half the size. The flower company hired mainly undocumented folks. The dairy industry was an alliance of family farms. They probably wouldn’t have been big enough for a hospital without the university, and wouldn’t have had a chain grocery store. (And I’m not going to discuss the cannabis industry here.)

              I’ve driven through SO MANY tiny rural towns on my way to that university and on other trips around this end of the state. They just don’t have enough industry to have well-paid jobs.

        2. Aggretsuko*

          I would suspect Jane might be burned out from her regular job to the point where a bakery job at the crack of dawn sounds fun to her. She might not be living the perfect life you think she is.

      4. kiki*

        When I used to work in retail, I had a coworker whom people didn’t really understand why she had this job. She used to be a director at a major company, was “overqualified,” and people assumed she didn’t really need the money. On getting closer to her, it became clear that her finances were better than most people working at the store, but not great due to a divorce and some investments that never fully recovered after the recession in 08. She began having health issues related to stress that made holding her director job untenable. She needed some income so she wouldn’t eat too much into her savings, but she wasn’t able to find something in her former field that wouldn’t have aggravated her health issues.

        I know that doesn’t sound like Jane’s situation, but I think it’s worth noting that you never fully understand someone’s financial situation and reasons for having a job from the outside.

    2. That girl*

      Yes, Sara, you said just what I was thinking. The only thing I would add is for OP to see if she can spend some of that energy looking at how she can improve her own situation rather than ruminating over the inequalities she is seeing. Maybe she can start researching other career options, evening classes, anything to better her own financial situation because even if she could, firing Jane would do nothing to help OP’s financial position.

  7. rayray*

    I can understand the feeling. I’m currently at a job that I feel somewhat over-qualified and underpaid in, trying to make it better but that’s not the point I want to make here. I currently live with my parents by choice even though it’s far from ideal, but I prefer it over finding roommates right now. A couple years ago when I moved out of the apartment I shared with a friend, a 1-bedroom in the same complex was affordable and within reach but we were in the thick of the pandemic and I decided being at my parents for a few months would be good at the time. Fast forward and rent prices went way up and my pay did not. I am single and everyone else on my team is married, so have a supplemental income. I find myself feeling jealous about people who make what I do who own homes, have nicer cars, support a family, or can travel more frequently. I admit I can feel a little resentful and annoyed when they talk about things they are doing at home, like renovations or even complaining when having to take care of maintenance issues when home ownership is completely out of reach for me now.

    It’s a crappy feeling when you feel like you have so much less than. Jane just happens to be in a really fortunate and honestly, enviable place in her life. I think it might be good to try to get to know her for who she is, not for the person who has the nice house or the good career. She is her own person with her own life. I’d wager that you may not be seeing everything she is going through anyway. I know my coworkers make assumptions about me and my life situation, but they definitely don’t know the whole story. Jane probably has a whole lot more to her life than what you are seeing on the surface. Could be anything from trying to take care of family members in bad health, saving for adoption costs, paying down some debts, etc.

    1. WellRed*

      Oh man, I feel this. Not only am I the only one unmarried, the rest all bought houses 10 years or more ago. I have roommates and am closer to retirement than many. I’d still appreciate Jane, though.

    2. Code Monkey, the SQL*

      I’m trying to have sympathy for LW, but I’ve been other people’s Jane a couple times and it _always_ sucks.

      I got a new (used) car while coworker’s car was broken? Stuck up show off
      I had an apartment with a partner while coworker lived with her parents? B*tch
      I liked my spouse and ate lunch with him while coworker was unhappy in her marriage? He must be abusive and I must have a cocaine problem.

      LW needs to take about 20 deep breaths and realize that whatever Jane does or doesn’t do, it isn’t going to make her feel better about her own financial situation. And firing her is an incredibly misguided idea in particular.

      1. ferrina*

        I’ve been LW and Jane. Both positions suck. And honestly, for me it’s easier to be Jane than LW, because when I was in LW position, I was living paycheck to paycheck, and that is mentally exhausting to be survival mode for that long.

        This isn’t either of their faults. It’s a societal issue that’s way bigger than the two of them. Blaming one or the other isn’t going to solve anything. Firing Jane is just burying your head in the sand- it won’t make LW’s situation go away, and it will make it worse, because it will make her a worse manager.

    3. SoreThroat*

      Just one point I’d like to make: Just because someone is married does not necessarily mean they have dual incomes that put them on Easy Street. I have been married twice and I have always been the breadwinner. Neither of my husbands ever earned even half of what I do. It sure would have been nice to have someone to shoulder the bills with, but it didn’t turn out that way.

  8. AY*

    OP, you sound unhappy with your current salary. I recommend focusing your energy on finding ways to increase your income – new training, shifting to another sector, new position, whatever. Once you feel financially secure, it’ll bother you a lot less that others make still more than you do.

    1. stretchy*

      This is the best advice here. “Struggling to make rent” is NOT an acceptable situation. It’s an emergency! Channel all your jealousy into improving your own financial health.

        2. Loch Lomond*

          As opposed to what, not trying? The bootstraps thing is a retort to policy issues, not individuals’ response to their circumstances.

          If you’re struggling to make rent, the options are: take in more (side hustles, pursuing a raise, moving to a higher paid job, seeing if government aid is available,
          asking friends for help) and/or spend less (pare down budget, move to cheaper apartment, etc). Or do nothing and continue to flounder.

          The fact that OP is affected badly by unjust economic systems doesn’t mean there’s no individual reaction that will make a difference.

          1. Well...*

            Yes, I agree, it was more the tone of this is an emergency!! As if LW just didn’t realize how serious their financial situation was. There may be things that increase LW’s odds, but they weren’t asking about that and we don’t really know the details. It can be pretty cringy when people give you advice to help your financial circumstances that you didn’t ask for. Maybe LW is doing all these things and is STILL frustrated with Jane because they don’t immediately yield results and her feelings toward Jane are an immediate problem.

          2. Lydia*

            It’s really not. It’s the same BS response that the ignorant give marginalized people as an actual course of action. “Try harder” is not an actual path out if the system is designed to keep you in. Can the OP do some things? Sure. But unless there is a systemic change, the OP will only get so far.

            1. ferrina*

              Yuuuup. Hard work means nothing if you don’t get lucky.

              Some of the hardest workers I’ve had the privilege to work alongside will never get paid what they are due because a whole mix of societal factors. You can be smart and hardworking and not have the degree, not be able to go to school because you don’t have the money/your brain isn’t designed for school/you need to spend your energy elsewhere (the worst is the deadend job that takes all your energy, so you don’t have enough energy to go to school, but you can’t spend less energy at your job because then you’ll be fired and you can’t afford to be without income, and that triples when you have a dependent). When the odds are stacked against you, how can you be blamed for being statistically average? Or even above average, but not exceedingly exceptional? When did “great” become “not good enough”?

          3. Butter*

            This is absolutely not true. The “American Dream” is a lie. OP already said she has a kid. She can’t endlessly side hustle because who would watch the kid? She can’t go back to school because who would watch the kid? If you’re poor and can’t afford essentials there’s no way to pare down your budget.

            This is the reality for so many people. If you haven’t gone to college you’re stuck in jobs that don’t pay the rent. And there are only so many hours in a week.

            1. Splendid Colors*

              And if LW lives in a small rural town, she won’t have as many options as people in a major metro area.

              Where I live, I could take all kinds of certification programs at half a dozen community colleges reachable by public transit.

              There are more opportunities for side hustles because a major metro area has more people willing to pay extra for handmade stuff, or services like tutoring. But that depends on having the skills anyway, and might require childcare. There’s a big demand for driving-related gigs: Uber, DoorDash, Amazon delivery.

              Granted, most of this would be moot because paying for childcare would cost as much as the gig would earn. Assuming you could *get* childcare at side-hustle hours.

      2. cactus lady*

        Agreed! When my ex and I split up, my first thought was “I need to make more money”, because I did NOT make enough to live on without him. It ended up being a really good use of my energy at that point! I found a job that paid as much as we both made together – when I was hired my boss actually offered me MORE than I had asked for because they thought I was undervaluing my skills – and it didn’t solve all my problems, but it did solve the one where I was struggling to make rent. Whatever it looks like for you to feel secure in life, that’s what you should be focusing on. It’s a much better use of your energy that jealousy.

        1. Cookie*

          Lucky you. I had that same thought and I’m still having it but many, many applications and years later I haven’t found a job that paid as much as we both made together. Mainly because the career choices I made early in our marriage – which favored his work/career at the expense of mine – have me trapped in many ways. “It worked for me” is kind of a bootstraps thing, though I’m hopeful you didn’t mean it that way.

          1. cactus lady*

            I disagree. I think “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” is too reductive. Will this person be able to make a big change? I don’t know. But they haven’t even indicated that they’ve thought about it, or connected their resentment of Jane to the fact that she personifies this person’s insecurities.

            But not doing anything at all guarantees that nothing will change, including the attitude that caused them to write in. They can do something, ANYTHING, to try to change that, like writing to their local/state/provincial representatives. Asking for a raise. Figuring out if this town is still where they want to live with all the changes (I can relate to this – my own hometown had a Vail ski resort open in it when I was thinking of moving back. Almost immediately I couldn’t afford to live there, and I still can’t. I always thought I would move back until that happened. Now I most certainly won’t). Or even just taking a different route to work than they have been. Don’t underestimate how much small changes can help.

    2. higheredadmin*

      Adding to this – Jane and her remote-work friends might have great advice and connections on how to break into, for example, remote work fields (if that is of interest to you). Or, connections and advice – or even funding – to start your own business (also, if that is of interest to you.) Think of her as a resource of not just management advice, but perhaps advice on learning about other kinds of work.

      1. Elizabeth Naismith*

        Excellent point! Don’t let jealousy make you shun someone who could vastly improve your life.

      2. ThrillHo-Buy Me Bonestorm*

        Thank you! This was the response I was looking for! OP really should be focusing on how to improve her circumstances and her financial situation. And she has Jane, which has been open to sharing her experiences with her, rather than being envious of her position in life.

        OP truly has no idea what is going on in Jane’s life besides what she can see on the outside. Maybe Jane is on leave due to her health.

        I say that because I’m someone with an invisible chronic illness, and if someone finds out about my illness, no one believes it, “You look so good, you can’t be sick!” People don’t realize just how sick I truly am. Oh, I’m in tech too.

        What has prevented OP from taking online classes or transitioning to another higher paying profession? OP is blaming Jane for a much larger problem (which I understand and sympathize with) but what has she done to make the situation better?

        OP definitely needs to look within and ask some hard questions. Then utilize the resources around her to make the best out of a less than ideal situation.

      3. Ellis Bell*

        Jane is giving management training and advice for free and throwing all sorts of business connections at OP and all she wants to do is get the scissors out and cut! OP, you’re being ridiculous. She’s a burned out director taking a break; she doesn’t want to do your job any more any more than she wants to do her own right now. You’re totally going to be able to keep your job unless you tank it all by yourself with “fairness” vendettas against your employees and sabotaging yourself out of nothing more than a lack of confidence. She’s also not getting paid “twice”, her old job role will have more than milked her bone dry, so she’s earned any kind of paid break; being a director is not an hourly pay sort of gig and if it’s worth it to the company to pay her, what’s it honestly got to do with you? I completely understand the feelings of anxiety about finances and not knowing yet what’s in your future, but knowing Jane doesn’t and hasn’t negatively changed anything for you. If you need to distance yourself from her a bit emotionally, possibly not visiting her house any more, that may help you get ahold of yourself …. but honestly I think you’re missing a trick. Treat knowing her like an opportunity to pick her brains; you never know what can happen if you keep your nerve and keep an open mind.

    3. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Yeah, one obvious thing to try would be picking up some tech courses and seeing if you can make a transition into a higher-paying career.

      1. Starbuck*

        I dunno, all I’ve been hearing about tech jobs lately is the thousands of people who are getting laid off!

        1. Mill Miker*

          Tech is such a mess though, and I mean that in neutral way, if that makes sense. It’s work that can be done remote, but often isn’t, and sometimes for the biggest companies in the largest cities, and sometimes for little places just scrapping by.

          If I had started in a different city, my starting salary 10 years ago could have been more than my current salary now. And right now I’m working remotely in a small city for a smaller company that’s based in a bigger city (had to move out of the even smaller city I was in because the COL there was higher there, for some reason). So I make a lot more than some of my peers, but according to glass door I’m in like the bottom 3rd for pay for my job with my experience in my geographic region.

          I make enough to pull a Jane, but a lot of the people being laid of from the big tech companies wouldn’t be able to afford the pay cut to take my job… a lot of the small-to-mid companies are still hiring like mad, because they can’t afford to pay market rate, but what they _are_ paying is still high five-figures through low 6 figures….

          The entry-level pool is also full of people trying to make the jump, so openings for entry-level jobs get swamped, but there’s a definite split in the pool between people who have the knack or have put in the work, and people who are not ready for the job. If you can clearly place yourself in that first bucket, it’s a question of how “underpaid” your willing to be on paper, and how much BS you can deal with.

          It’s a mess!

    5. Sassy SAAS*

      Great point! It’s super common for workers to attack each other at a company because someone is being paid more. The unfairness lies with the company who is paying those unfair or very imbalanced salaries/rates, not with the employee getting that salary/rate. If a cashier is making more than a manager, that’s not the cashier’s fault, it’s the owners’ fault! OP could ask their manager for a raise, get training, look for a new position… there’s options! But Jane’s salary and her financial situation isn’t the crux of the problem here, it’s how OP is framing these things as a direct attack on them. OP, I hope you are able to either negotiate a raise or find a position that better suits your needs!!

        2. Courageous cat*

          I mean, I think “focus on what you can exert control over” here is pretty sound advice. You can control whether you take on extra education/training/etc somewhere else, you can control if you job hunt for something similar that might pay more. You can’t exert control over someone else’s circumstances (or really shouldn’t, in the case of wanting to fire Jane for this).

          1. a user*

            Firing Jane for this would be an asinine thing to do, yes, but OP definitely can do something. Namely lobby and protest to make the town less attractive for gentrifying newcomers, there are myriad ways to do this, and with enough support and effort a town can make the newcomers leave.

          2. Splendid Colors*

            I would be trying to figure out what kind of art/craft thing I could make that Jane’s overpaid friends would pay me to make for them. Preferably if I could do it at home with my kids around. But, I’m a maker and I don’t have a day job managing a bakery–maybe LW doesn’t have two jobs’ worth of energy in her, I sure wouldn’t.

    7. Samwise*

      I do not understand all the snark aimed at this comment. It is not bad advice, and there is nothing in it that’s slamming poor people. Nothing.

      (1) Refocus away from Jane (good advice) and turn it on yourself (good advice)
      (2) Unhappy with current salary. (Yes, I sense that in OP’s letter)
      (3) Can you find ways to increase your income? (advice that is offered by commenters on this blog just about every day, and with plenty of approval and band-waggoning). What is wrong with this suggestion? Seriously, what is wrong with it? If the OP can’t use the suggestion, well, fine, then OP can ignore it. But maybe OP can.

      Plenty of suggestions in the comments are rewording of Alison’s advice, suggestions that the OP may or may not be able to take, and none, so far as I can see, are putting down the OP (or the OP’s economic class group). Nobody is slamming any of those comments for being unoriginal or unusable.

      Why are y’all so eager to kick at the intentions or “ignorance” of the people posting and agreeing with this comment? Why?

      1. ferrina*

        LW doesn’t say that they’re unhappy with their current salary- they say their once-achievable financial goal (buying a house) is now unattainable due to inflation and higher-salaried remote workers creating a housing shortage in the local market. LW could have done everything right- made a career they love, at a salary that is reasonable- and because of these circumstances outside their control, their goals are suddenly unattainable.

        The problem with “get a better job!” is that it’s language that has been used to obfuscate systemic inequities for time immemorial. It’s trying to individualize a systemic problem, and subtly blame the individual for being in an impossible position. (“well, if you just worked harder…”). There’s a long history of similar language that is used to obfuscate racial wealth gaps or other gaps based on “undesirable” qualities (I’m not saying the commenters are doing that here, but words don’t exist in a vacuum. Pretty much every marginalized group has been accused of being “lazy” when in reality financial opportunities are denied to them).

        There is nothing to indicate that LW is being paid unfairly or being taken advantage of. LW is clear that their financial situation is due to unforeseeable economic changes outside their control. LW gives no indication that they want to leave their job, and that’s not what they’re asking for. They’re asking for advice in being a manager- AY’s advice doesn’t help that.

        1. a clockwork lemon*

          The systemic inequality at play here, to the extent that there is one at all, is the absolutely unavoidable reality that for all of human history, people have moved to new places. In this particular case, people are piling on about a woman “flaunting” her wealth for…moving into a new-construction home in what’s apparently an area that offers a desirable lifestyle to a lot of people rather than buying up what sounds like a limited supply of existing housing.

          Unless LW wants to solve their financial problems with a very long prison sentence, there is nothing they can do to alter the reality that Jane *lives in town now and has chosen to work the bad shifts at a local business.* It’s on LW to fix whatever is making them miserable, because in every workplace there will always be someone who has [nice stuff/a dumb expensive hobby/a nicer home.]

          Remember: LW manages a team of low-wage employees in a retail storefront. That means, at any given moment before Jane, LW could very well have been the richest worker in the room.

          1. a user*

            There are absolutely legal ways to make gentrifying newcomers feel unwelcome. People all across the world are doing it when faced with this issue. There’s a lot of things between “ignore it entirely and make peace with the fact that your hometown will be ruined by locusts” and “commit crimes against them”. This argument lacks nuance.

            But in a professional capacity letting this affect her decisionmaking to such an extent is highly likely to backfire and also uncalled for. If she wanted to engage in community organizing to lobby the town government to enact measures against wealthy newcomers, that would be a more appropriate use of her anger.

        2. Samwise*

          I’m well aware of all of this. That still doesn’t mean that OP couldn’t look for a better paying job or other ways to increase their income. If that’s what OP wants to do.

          My point is that the suggestion to take the focus off Jane and on earning more money is getting slammed in a way other kinds of comments are not — a number of commenters are not just laying out the analysis you have so clearly and cogently stated here. They’re getting nasty about it. So what’s up with that reaction?

  9. MysteriousMise*

    Oh dear.

    This is 100% a you problem, right here. And jealousy is a poor look on anyone.

    You need to work on yourself, and deal with your envy here, because if you don’t, things are not going to go well.

    1. MysteriousMise*

      To add: Alison’s advice is spot on, as usual. Take some time to reflect on it, and what’s about to happen in the comments.

      Good luck!

        1. Budgie Buddy*

          Oops hit reply too soon – I think jealousy is a natural and unavoidable human emotion. We live in an unfair world where sometimes people have stuff we really want often just by luck. But Jane isn’t being rich AT op.

          Jealousy should spur us to reflect – what’s causing me to be discontent with my own life? What changes can I make? I don’t think trying to crush jealousy down is the solution because it’s kind of a warning signal that something in your own life is out of whack. But neither is blindly feeding jealousy and turning into a ball of resentment.

          1. That girl*

            Yes Budgie Buddy,
            Those feelings can be a warning signal that there are areas of your own life that need attention.

    3. jj*

      I hate this take. Jealousy is a natural and unhealthy reaction to living in a deeply unjust economy. Resentment is a natural and acceptable reaction to having your home gentrified. OP’s meaningful issue is they need to not let this jealousy and resentment impact how they manage an employee. It is way out of line to judge or shame them for being jealous in and of itself.

  10. AvonLady Barksdale*

    Jane could be (already is, sounds like) a huge asset to you. She likely took this job because she was burned out and needed a break, she’s happy doing what she’s doing, AND she’s happy to share her knowledge– in a way that, based on your telling, is kind and informative. She sounds like a generous person and one who takes any job she has very seriously. She’s taking the shifts no one wants. She has no plans to advance. She is the opposite of spoiled or entitled or whatever.

    Management is not about money. There are plenty of people who take retail jobs when they don’t need the money– I’ve been one. I needed structure and routine and a job where I could do my work and then leave it behind until the next day because I had just left a very damaging work situation. I respected my managers and did my work, just like Jane is doing.

    I understand the jealousy. I would probably be jealous too. But do not let that override the fact that you actually like this woman and she is a great employee. Letting the jealousy win is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    1. Well...*

      I mean, I think what Jane is collectively participating in is not entirely ethical. I wouldn’t say her arrival (and the en-mass arrival of wealthy people like her) is really overall a good thing. I definitely don’t think we have enough information here to judge whether Jane is spoiled or entitled. She could be either or both, and she’s definitely operating at a higher level of privilege. IMO that gives her a higher ethical responsibility to address inequality around her and be a good neighbor/friend/community member in the area she’s actively gentrifying. If she’s just doing a good job at any job, that’s not enough to say she’s not a part of the problem.

      1. Clobberin' Time*

        Nothing in the OP’s letter suggests that Jane is “spoiled or entitled” – kind of the opposite, as she takes shifts other people don’t want. Why are you writing fanfic about how Jane is secretly awful?

        1. KatCardigans*

          How is saying “I definitely don’t think we have enough information here to judge whether Jane is spoiled or entitled” writing fanfic about how Jane is secretly awful?

            1. Well...*

              Of course. I was responding to an initial claim that Jane is the opposite of entitled and spoiled, so I didn’t explicitly say “neither.” But I said there’s not enough info to judge, then presented two possible alternatives. Jeez people are really up in arms for Jane…

      2. Roland*

        +1. OP can’t take it out on her, but Jane is part of a pattern currently causing harm in OP’s city. Doesn’t mean she’s wrong for her individual choices, but we don’t need to pretend that’s not true.

      3. A*

        Thank you for saying this. Yes, we are not individually responsible for the movements of society, but we are individually responsible for our own actions. Obviously, this can’t impact the way the OP manages this person, but you also don’t have to act like it’s some precious gift for rich people to deign to work in a bakery.

        1. Well...*

          Yup. This was exactly the tone I didn’t like in the original comment, and what I was pushing back on. I’m not sure other commenters really see that though as I’ve seemed to open a can of worms…

          1. Rhiannon*

            Because you seem to be assuming Jane is more trouble than she’s worth, and it’s an absurd take.

      4. L-squared*

        Oh please. Now we are reaching. Jane has done nothing wrong, except move into a place that she was able to move to.

        She has no ethical responsibility to take on the burden of a jealous manager.

        You say she could be either spoiled or entitled, or both. But why not neither. Just because someone has a good job and has money, doesnt’ make them spoiled or entitled. Even operating at a higher level of privilege doesn’t mean these things are true.

        1. Well...*

          I think you’re misreading my comment. I said we can’t judge one way or the other. I didn’t rule out the possibility of neither. I didn’t explicitly highlight nighter because I was responding to OP saying that Jane was the opposite of entitled or spoiled (which we just don’t have any evidence of).

          1. Rhiannon*

            “I definitely don’t think we have enough information here to judge whether Jane is spoiled or entitled. She could be either or both.”

            Sorry, where is “neither” here?

        2. Anonymously Yours*

          I agree with this.

          Also, words like rich and wealthy are being thrown around. Having a comfortable income doesn’t necessarily equate to being “wealthy.”

          My SO and I started with little education and no money from family. We worked hard without special privileges to get what we have. Immense ups and downs in employment, many tenuous situations overcome. Decades later, we’re comfortable (and we don’t take any of it for granted).

          We changed our trajectory by deciding to work towards our goals. Easy? Hell no. But worth it. Only YOU can change your life, OP.

          1. lilsocialist*

            I am truly, truly, hoping to say this with kindness, but— no special privileges? None? Not white? Cisgendered? Able-bodied? Neurotypical? Straight?

            “We changed our trajectory by deciding to work toward our goals” is really ignoring a lot of factors that effect people outside of your personal experience, and are systemic and deeply rooted in our culture. I think that statement alone can attest to the likely many privileges you’ve been afforded— not through fault of your own, I really don’t want to make this personal— and may in fact be taking for granted.

            1. Elizabeth Naismith*

              Given the sheer number of things you listed, it’s highly unlikely Anonymously Yours doesn’t fall into at least one category.
              But even if someone does fall into one (or more) of those categories, that just makes this advice all the more important. No one is going to hand you an easy life. No matter your circumstances, the only way to improve your life is by what you choose to do. Luck doesn’t play nearly as big a role as you seem to want it to.

              1. Snorks*

                “Only YOU can change your life” implies that “you alone can change your life,” in other words, that if your life doesn’t change, it’s because you’re not trying hard enough. And for people with privilege, that’s usually true. But for people who face massive systemic obstacles based on who they are, and not what they’ve done, it’s untrue and patronizing to say the least.

                Gumption is great, but give me generational wealth any day.

              2. Starbuck*

                “No one is going to hand you an easy life. No matter your circumstances, the only way to improve your life is by what you choose to do.”

                But that’s the point, this literally isn’t true! People *do* get handed easy lives, it does happen that their circumstances improve through no effort of their own. Your argument that luck doesn’t play a role – the luck of your birth absolutely has a huge affect on the course of your life. Let’s not pretend it isn’t so. The result of that isn’t ‘therefore, do nothing’ of course people should still *try* to improve their lives, but come on, let’s be real. What you’re saying just isn’t true.

                1. Me ... Just Me*

                  A finite, tiny percentage of folks get handed easy lives. It is in no way the norm. And one person’s “easy life” is another’s very challenging life.

                  I grew up poor (dumpster diving for food as a kid poor) whose sister died in childhood. Neither of my parents are college educated. My dad is an ex-felon. Both of my parents grew up in terrible households (my dad was beaten by his dad and my mom’s parents were alcoholics). I’m a woman. Short and chubby. I’ve got a couple of chronic autoimmune diseases. I’m partially deaf. Broke my back in two place in an auto accident a decade ago. I deal with debilitating pain daily. I could go on about the various tragedies and setbacks that I’ve faced.

                  I’m also white. Intelligent. My parents are still together. I have a supportive family. I’ve worked hard to educate myself and have a Master’s degree (and $80k student loans). I own a home. Married. I make good money. I have relatively nice things.

                  So, what am I? — privileged? downtrodden and hopelessly marginalized? What?? I think of myself as being both normal and extremely lucky. Another person might look at all the bad things that have happened to me and think my life is horribly tragic. Others might see the apparent wealth and think my life’s been easy.

                  Most peoples’ lives are a mishmash and even the most privileged have things going on that others know nothing about.

                  Let’s take Jane, for example. Privileged, yes. But, doesn’t it make you wonder how bad things (what happened to Jane that she left her high tech job to work odd hours at a local bakery??) are for Jane? Is she picking up hours at a low paying job because she needs money and her mental health is such that she cannot deal with high stress? — my money is on that explanation rather than she’s super rich, mentally well and simply likes getting up before dawn to peddle baked goods. Maybe she was the victim of a crime in that big city and so moved to the small town to feel safe? Who knows? We definitely don’t.

            2. Starbuck*

              I was thinking the same. It’s a nice idea, just work hard and of course you’ll be rewarded – but pretending that privilege (or obstacles from the lack thereof) don’t come into play, well, that’s just not a helpful perspective that other people can take as actionable advice.

      5. Oxford Comma*

        As you say, we don’t know enough about Jane to judge. Jane is a good employee. That’s where it should end. Whether Jane does activism in her spare time or nothing at all isn’t the issue.

        1. Well...*

          LW is struggling to manage their feelings about their economic circumstances and large-scale changes to their city while being responsible to their role as a manager. Just saying “Jane is a good employee!!” doesn’t help LW with that, like at all.

          If Jane was participating in that activism, or even just aware of its existence and not ignorant to what she’s doing to the people around her, I bet that interpersonal relationship would be easier to navigate. Walking around oblivious to the harm you’re causing in your personal life and then expecting a fire wall between your work and personal life without any consequences is…. unrealistic. Work simply does not happen in a vacuum to society, and some of these problems are very complicated and can’t be so cleanly separated.

          1. Elizabeth Naismith*

            It’s not on Jane to manage LW’s feelings. Quite the opposite, really. LW is the manager, and Jane is just an employee. Jane is not responsible for LW in any way. Nothing outside of her behavior at work matters; and it sounds as if Jane’s work is exemplary. Whether she spends her money and free time helping underprivileged youth or vacationing in the Maldives has no impact on her being a good employee.
            LW, on the other hand, is the manager. She actually is responsible for keeping her employees content (at least as regards work). Wanting to fire someone because they have a better living situation than you do is inappropriate at best.

        1. bamcheeks*

          Genuinely, “don’t have a party where you invite local people and your rich friends talk about how far their money stretches”.

          like, there is absolutely an element of gentrification where we’re all smaller than the system and making choices for ourselves and it sucks that those choices impact other people’s economic reality but there’s a limit to what you can do about it. But that kind of ignorance of the fact that your good fortune being at other people’s expense is something you CAN do something about.

          1. Chairman of the Bored*

            Are you saying that Jane should not have invited local people to her party, or told her or told her other guests ahead of time not to talk about the cost of living variation between different cities?

            It doesn’t sound like she did anything wrong here.

          2. anon for this*

            I don’t know that “don’t let your rich and poor friends mingle” is exactly right. I’m someone who by switching fields tripled my paycheck recently (left public education for corporate, sigh). Still figuring a lot out. But am I supposed to have separate Christmas parties for the old friends & the new? Separate ppl by class? What do I do with the friend who works at a nonprofit for peanuts but comes from a rich family — slot them into the rich friend party or the poor friend party?

            I’d rather spend my money locally, invest in the community, try to lift all boats, and stick to one party. Sure that means some folks will need to be more sensitive with how they talk about money at parties (and it would be on me to tell them so).

            1. Corey*

              Not only that, but as someone who has almost tripled his salary in the past few years, I didn’t get it done by segregating myself from those who are best positioned to lift me up.

            2. bamcheeks*

              I guess I think, by all means let your rich friends with good manners mingle with your poor friends! But maybe not the ones who lack sensitivity and are going to spoil the party for you poor friends?

              I find it fascinating that a lot of the comments here seem to assume that wealthy people couldn’t *possibly* be sensitive to how they come across talking about money and CoL in front of the community they’ve all impacted, and that that’s something we just have to work around rather than something that you can actually be decent and discreet about.

              1. Hen in a Windstorm*

                I think the idea that one needs to be discreet about money is part of the problem. It continues the idea that money is a taboo topic. Why can’t we all be open about how much we make, how much things cost and how to get more of all the good stuff?

                It’s entirely possible, by the way, that the people at the party were not being insensitive or rude or whatever. The OP has a lot of feelings about money and Jane’s friends that might mean literally any talk about the COL in the town would upset her. I’d also note that there have been studies that show “wealth” does not have a numerical definition. “Wealthy” just means “wealthier than me” to people at every level of society.

                There’s only so much any one person can do to pre-soothe someone else’s feelings. (Adding, this is a lot of guess-culture BS that implies I know exactly what everyone else will think about any one thing I say and then somehow navigating precisely so nobody is offended). At some point, adults have to manage their own emotions.

                1. bamcheeks*

                  Because we have an economy very deliberately set up so that most of “the good stuff” goes to the people who already have it, and hearing people who have lots more money than you talk about having lots of money very rarely gives you actionable advice that you can convert into more money yourself.

                3. SofiaDeo*

                  Being open about money, and logically discussing is, is nice in theory. But emotions aren’t always logical. Triggers and emotions just “are”. I was really surprised and upset with myself when someone who graduated a year ahead of me, brought up emotions of jealousy when talking about their life. I would be graduating into a well paid profession of my own, in the upcoming year. Yet the jealousy that arose drove m crazy, I hated it, and I removed myself from that person’s life. Instead of being excited/anticipating that I, too, would soon be able to have a job and no longer be a struggling student, I got hit with totally unexpected feelings of insanely intense jealousy. Look at all the comments about how Jane’s friends discussing how their salaries stretch. We don’t really know if they were being factual, grateful, or boastful. But at least some people find money talk triggering, and it’s tough to know ahead of time what our triggers might be.

          3. Well...*

            I think it’s really funny how people on this thread are getting confused by like… basic etiquette. It reminds me of reactions to the advice: “don’t creep on girls at parties” resulting in a bunch of, “But what am I supposed to do? Segregate my parties by gender?? Never talk to women? Talk all the time? Socializing is impossible!!”

            1. Chairman of the Bored*

              What is the basic etiquette here?

              Jane invited a mixed group of people to a party, over the course of that party some people who *weren’t* Jane discussed geographic variations in cost of living. It is unclear whether she was even in the room for this conversation; it doesn’t seem like she participated in it.

              I am not in the habit of actively policing the conversation topics of other adults at a large gathering to make sure nobody brings up personal finance. I doubt that many people are.

              What specifically should Jane have done differently?

              1. bamcheeks*

                I think her wealthy friends were rude, and I think she should be embarrassed. I get that a lot of people here think that talking about how great it is to move to a lower CoL area in front of people who are seeing housing prices move right out of their reach is an inevitable thing that wealthy people just cannot possibly not do, but I just think it’s very easy to not do that and to have a bit of decency.

                1. Hen in a Windstorm*

                  This is such a ridiculous thing to say. You were not at that party. You’ve gone too far into the fantasy realm.

                2. Properlike*

                  How do you know the people engaging in the conversation were actually wealthy? Plenty of people are dirt-poor and taking on debt to affect a “wealthy” lifestyle. Plenty of people appear to be poor but have millions in the bank. I discussed mortgage rates and investing back before I had any money to do either. And when I finally saved up enough to buy a car, I told everyone how I negotiated the price because I’m female and I wanted other women to know how not to get gouged.

                  This is the “gotcha” culture that I made a comment about last week — the habit of ascribing ill intent to someone relaying an anecdote because they didn’t list all the ways they *didn’t* do the thing you’re worried about, so therefore, they probably did it and should be lectured.

                  This is not how Good Humans are supposed to communicate with each other. Is this what you do at parties, bamcheeks?

                3. Well...*

                  We’ve gone too deep in nesting but @Hen in Windstorm, we HAVE to make these kinds of fantasy assumptions in order to entertain Chairman of the Bored’s demands to specify proper etiquette in this specific situation.

                  It’s just a bad faith argument at this point. You know how to not be rude to people at parties with conversations around class, etc. Demanding an exact rule book for how to socialize and lacking one, refusing to engage in any sensitive wrt to class and privilege is deliberately trying to derail the conversation from anything productive.

                4. bamcheeks*

                  @Properlike— it doesn’t have to involve ill intent! Sometimes people are rude and offensive because they’re clueless, and the people they offend are not obliged to care more about their good intent than the actual offensive thing they said.

                  Sometimes, I have been rude and offensive because I was clueless, and I offended people. I feel bad about it and I think those people are entitled to be offended! Having a care for other people does not cause me undue hardship.

                5. Chairman of the Bored*

                  Jane’s *party guests* may have taken the COL conversation beyond the bounds of etiquette.

                  I genuinely don’t see what Jane herself did wrong, or what other thing she should have done besides “have different friends”.

              2. L-squared*

                Right. And to be fair, I don’t know that I find that topic itself even all that bad.

                I live in a city, and I have friends who have recently moved to the suburbs. It is definitely a topic of conversation that comes up about how different the cost of living is. I

        1. Lavender*

          Yeah, I think that’s what it comes down to. She very well might be contributing to a wider problem in the community, but it’s not really her manager’s place to take that into account during workplace interactions.

      8. Chairman of the Bored*

        I’m unclear about what unethical thing Jane is doing.

        People have the right to move to whatever city they wish and to establish a home when they get there.

        1. Well...*

          Of course people have a right to do that, people the right to do many things that are not ethical. I have the right to never speak to my parents again and refuse to help them later in life despite their good parenting, but that doesn’t make it ethical.

          To your point, if you’re engaging in gentrification, the way to do it ethically is to be actively involved with projects to ensure housing is affordable and fair; renter’s rights are being strengthened, upheld, and respected; low-income housing is readily available. It means ensuring affordable grocery stores remain open in your neighborhood and pushing back on policing homelessness/poverty. That way you undo some of the harm that you caused when you moved there. Just “bringing your skills” to managing a baker that was presumably doing fine before you showed up doesn’t cut it.

          1. JB*

            You seem to be placing a lot of responsibility on people who are probably just looking for a nice place to live. It’s not their job to attend to the economic health and fairness of the entire community.

            1. lilsocialist*

              Whose job is it then?

              Seriously, if we are in a situation right now where economic and social inequality is rampant, and our leadership is not only declining to do anything about it but actively exacerbating it— who, on an individual community level, should be leading the fight for a more just world? I mean, I would argue the Janes among us have the most access and ability to do so, on an individual level.

              1. Chairman of the Bored*

                Even though Janes among us may have that access and ability, they are under no obligation to use it in the way their manager prefers.

                Jane should not face negative consequences at work for declining to “lead the fight” for policies that will benefit her boss off the job.

              2. ThursdaysGeek*

                How do you know that Jane wasn’t moving to a cheaper location partly because she was priced out of her original location by richer people from elsewhere moving to it?

                3. Lavender*

                  Yeah, moving to less expensive area to save money isn’t something that fabulously wealthy people tend to do. They might buy rental properties or vacation homes elsewhere, but the reason why big cities are so expensive is because they are usually the most desirable places to live.

              3. Pescadero*

                “Whose job is it then? ”

                The folks elected by the electorate to be responsible for directing law/taxation/policy in the way the electorate wants.

                1. turquoisecow*

                  Yes. Isn’t this what we have governments for? Unless Jane has political influence, she’s not going to change the culture on her own.

              4. cardigarden*

                But does this particular Jane have the spoons to lead community efforts to combat economic inequality in this town? Really all we know about her is that she’s on sabbatical and currently wants to occupy her time working in a bakery. Having financial privilege (actual or perceived) doesn’t necessarily mean you have the capacity to dismantle systems of oppression on the scale that it sounds like you’re asking for.

                1. Properlike*

                  Does it count if she gives her money to save endangered species? Or donates her time to a food bank? Or was once poor herself? Does she tutor kids at a below-market rate? Use coupons at the grocery store?

                  Do you all hold yourselves to these standards too?

                  Y’all have really warped standards of what constitutes “rich” which also seem to include a lot of flouncing and mustache-twirling.

              5. Splendid Colors*

                Yes, this.

                I *do* participate in local advocacy for affordable housing, and one of the problems we face is community opposition. It would help so, SO much if more homeowners who don’t oppose a project would spend a few hours every couple of months to make public comment that they welcome the project.

                But the homeowners who care enough to go to a meeting in person, or even just wait their turn on Zoom for remote participation, are almost always the ones who want everyone to know that “we paid a lot of money to live in this neighborhood far far away from people who make less money than we do.” Or the ones who believe the HOA’s disinformation that the affordable housing is for sex offenders even though it’s down the block from a school. Yes, there are people who are so strongly opposed to affordable housing that they will make up complete lies about why their neighbors should stop a well-designed project targeted at people like bakery managers, teachers, and retail staff.

                Then the Councilmembers often say “my constituents have made their feelings known” and vote against the project.

                The people who actually qualify to live in this housing typically don’t call in or show up because they’re working two jobs, have kids underfoot, or just don’t know it’s happening. When organizers and advocates call in, we get called shills and the Council often gets mad we showed up.

                What we need the most is for homeowners in the affected neighborhoods to call in or show up in support of affordable housing (and tenant rights issues). That is something Jane and her friends could be doing to solve this issue.

                The Bay Area has a group called “TechEquity” that tries to recruit people in their fields to fight income inequality, racism, labor law violations, etc. So this kind of advocacy is possible!

            2. bamcheeks*

              Well, ok, if it’s not their job to do that, it’s also not the community’s job to welcome them with open arms and always think lovely sweet positive things about them!

              Since literally everyone agrees that LW should not under any circumstances treat Jane in any detrimental way in the workplace, that’s literally the only consequence we’re discussing here: people not unanimously thinking they are good people. That’s literally the very worst thing that could happen.

              Good lord, rich people are fragile.

              1. Hen in a Windstorm*

                What on earth?! Anyone who disagrees with you is apparently both “rich” and “fragile”. It’s impossible to just have another perspective? You’ve got some issues to unpack.

                1. Well...*

                  Nope, it’s just that these particular replies are conveying a ton of fragility. It’s not that any disagreement indicates that… it’s just this particular discourse in this particular thread.

                2. bamcheeks*

                  Nah, I’m not saying people here are rich and fragile. I’m saying that there’s a cultural tendency (extremely well-nurtured across our media and other institutions) to empathise with the wealthy and present them as full complicated humans who need to be respected and protected from bad feelings, and deny that same complicated news to poorer people.

                  So when there’s a conflict between the needs of the wealthy and the less wealthy, there’s a knee jerk tendency to say, “you don’t understand! They probably didn’t have a choice! That’s a perfectly normal conversation! They couldn’t have known they were going to upset someone!”

                  All of which may well be true! But it’s all focussed on the feelings of the wealthier person. There isn’t a drive to give the poorer person the same level of complicatedness. They’ve got it set their feelings aside and understand that the wealthier person didn’t MEAN harm, that they’re a good person really.

                  And the wealthy person gets to not only keep their wealth— which was never threatened anyway!— but also their image of themselves as a good person. Someone who, sure, may have caused harm, but did so inadvertently because of structures bigger themselves! And the poorer person remains harmed,

                  That’s what I mean by “fragile”. Not being able to live with the idea that your lifestyle or your ignorance or anything about yoh might cause harm to others, and needing other people to acknowledge and affirm your inherent goodness. And we have a shitton of propaganda and media and god knows actual court systems bolstering that all the time.

                3. Modesty Poncho*

                  @Bamcheeks for what it’s worth, I didn’t agree with you at first but you’ve explained yourself really well and I get where you’re coming from now. Thank you for your perspective.

              2. ADidgeridooForYou*

                I think people are just saying it’s more complicated than that. I feel like a lot of these comments are missing some nuance. There’s a middle ground between rich and poor, and people participate in gentrification to mixed degrees. I’m sure a good chunk of these people saying that Jane is the problem have contributed to gentrification in some way. I don’t know Jane or her salary, so I can’t comment on her specific situation, but often times people who relocate are just trying to survive, as well. They’re not completely innocent, but they’re not completely guilty, either.

                1. bamcheeks*

                  I don’t really think that matters. Like, I agree it’s all relative, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad for LW to think ill of Jane if she’s only on $80k but becomes acceptable if she’s on $800k. Her cohort has brought a big enough income differential to LW’s home town that it’s having an impact on the local economy. I think you start with the impact on the people with least wealth and how they feel about it. It’s not about the inherent goodness or badness or worthiness of jane’s cohort, but the impact on the people who are priced out at whatever band that happens to be.

          2. Phoenix*

            Wow. There’s nothing “unethical” about moving from a place where you’re struggling to afford the life you want to live to a place where you can comfortably afford that life. Jane is absolutely not under some kind of moral obligation to stay in a high COL city and struggle so that OP’s COL doesn’t increase and OP can comfortably afford the life she wants without moving. Not to mention that Jane’s individual move has virtually no actual impact on the city’s COL. I’m sorry OP is struggling, that sucks and it’s not her fault. But it’s not Jane’s fault either.

            1. Snorks*

              There’s nothing unethical about moving to a place with a lower COL, but it’s not ethical to pretend that it had no negative impacts on the community, either.

              2. Lavender*

                I think it depends. Is she spending her money at local businesses? Is this the only property that she owns? Does she even own her house, or is she renting? Does she plan to move closer to her other workplace once her sabbatical is over? These things are all factors.

                Speaking as someone who grew up in an area that has since become extremely gentrified, the biggest issue by far was people buying investment properties that they didn’t intend to live in. It meant that the people who owned homes there generally weren’t contributing to the local economy, which hurt local businesses and drove up the cost of living.

          3. ThursdaysGeek*

            And you (and the OP) have no idea what Jane is doing when she’s not at work, how she is helping (or not helping) problems that she’s seeing around her.

          4. Julia K.*

            “The way to do it ethically is to be actively involved with projects to ensure housing is affordable and fair; renter’s rights are being strengthened, upheld, and respected; low-income housing is readily available.”

            Jane is doing exactly this by buying a higher-income new build, instead of competing for a prior rental or lower-income home.

            Moving to areas that permit new buildings has a much better impact than moving to areas that do not permit new buildings.

            1. Julia K.*

              And sure, it would be good of Jane to advocate politically too; but we don’t know whether she’s doing that or not. From what we do know about her actions on the gentrification front, they seem quite ethical.

          5. skadhu*

            So… moving from place A where you are poor to place B where you are nicely comfortable is unethical? Better to stay in a disadvantaged position where it’s impossible to leverage your privilege to improve things?

            I actually agree that it’s important for people with relative privilege to use it. We know Jane is offering some aspects of that at work by taking undesirable shifts and offering tips. We don’t know if she’s also doing it at a more macro scale, or if not, whether there are good reasons that forced a sabbatical and prevent her. We know she is at least partly oblivious to her relative privilege and why it might matter because she invited everyone over; we don’t know if she was even aware of the discussion of relative finances here.

            Jane might be 90% obnoxious privilege and 10% community-minded nice person — or the reverse. Awful lot of moral judgements being made about Jane in areas in which we have very little info.

            1. Mill Miker*

              I swear, a good chunk of the (for lack of a better term) “erosion of the middle class” (or at least part of the reason the ultra-wealthy can get away with it) is this tendency to put anyone slightly-better-off into “out-of-touch, ultra-wealthy” bucket.

              If the goal is to have everyone living comfortably, without having people who are so rich they can just buy the laws they want, then the people who are already in that bucket, while not necessarily “part of the solution” are definitely part of the “solved”.

              And while I’d never try to argue that absolves anyone of any responsibility for anything, I just can’t see how existing in that state is inherently unethical.

              1. Lavender*

                Yeah, that’s the thing. The goal is for everyone to have their basic needs met with some money left over to save or spend however they choose. The issue isn’t that some people have those things, it’s that far too many people don’t.

          6. RussianInTexas*

            How exactly can a person ensure a grocery store stays open? Does a person have an ethical obligation to shop in a grocery store that does not fulfil their needs?
            I live in a middle priced neighborhood, surrounded by a higher price neighborhood on one side, and a poorer neighborhood on the other side. Yes, we bought the house in this neighborhood because it was more affordable (10 years ago), then the more expensive neighborhood, and with much lower crime rate than the poorer neighborhood (and also not being The City proper).
            The poorer neighborhood has a Hispanic supermarket. I rarely patronize it because produce is worse and more expensive than HEB 5 miles away, and selection overall is worse, even though it’s less than a mile away.
            Do you propose I shop in a worse store so it stays open? Because I am not doing it.

            1. Snorks*

              Why not go there when you can? Speaking from experience, you’ll find a much better selection of dried chiles and a wider variety of cuts of meat. Do what you can to contribute to local businesses.

              1. RussianInTexas*

                I go there when I need specific items I want – chilis, ceviche by lb, frozen burritos. They do not have wider variety of meats I would eat vs my regular store. Nor it is cheaper. The parking lot is a trashed disaster.
                It’s also a “local” business as much as any supermarket chain. It’s not a large chain, but it is a chain.
                I can’t do my regular grocery shopping there, and that’s what matters to me.

      10. bighairnoheart*

        I want to challenge this a bit, because while I understand where you’re coming from, and this viewpoint is almost certainly where OP’s frustration is coming from, it’s not going to be helpful for OP to focus on this when it comes to managing her employee. We can have a high-level conversation about the harms of gentrification and the responsibilities of individuals who contribute to it, but OP has to learn to manage this person fairly (or leave), and continuing to focus on this aspect of the situation isn’t going to help them do that. If anything, I worry it’s going to make it worse. A good manager needs to be able to depersonalize things when it comes to managing their employees. (Which is to say, I don’t disagree with you, I just don’t think it’s a particularly useful framework for the letter writer to engage in.)

        1. Well...*

          Yea fair enough. The original comment rubbed me the wrong way because it painted Jane as a bit of a savior, which I think isn’t really correct. But agreed this framing doesn’t necessarily help LW.

          1. bighairnoheart*

            No worries, I get it and thank you for responding. This letter actually highlights one of the many reasons I never want to manage other people–I don’t know if I could do what OP needs to do without letting my feelings get in the way. Definitely wishing OP luck though.

      11. January*

        You said this perfectly: “IMO that gives her a higher ethical responsibility to address inequality around her and be a good neighbor/friend/community member in the area she’s actively gentrifying.”

        People in communities have a duty to one another. Gentrification is a well-recognized and well-researched problem. Jane is being blithe and/or obtuse if she doesn’t recognize she’s part of the problem for this town.

        I so rarely disagree with Alison! I really feel for OP. OP needed actionable advice on how to mitigate gentrification. However, I really don’t think this was the platform for that.

        1. ADidgeridooForYou*

          I said this just down below, and I don’t know Jane’s exact salary, but it’s not always that easy. I used to live in Washington, DC (the third-highest city for cost of living), and even with our pretty good salaries, my husband and I literally could not afford anything more than a 700-square-foot 1-bedroom apartment. One half of our salaries went to rent. My friend who lives in San Francisco pays $5k/month with her roommate for a 2 bedroom. This inflation and late-stage capitalism has hit small towns the hardest, but it’s hit cities pretty rough, as well. Everyone is struggling, and though some like OP are struggling more than others, it’s not entirely fair to say that people like Jane are just being entitled or “part of the problem” – they’re byproducts of the problem.

        2. Maisonneuve*

          OP didn’t ask for advice on mitigating gentrification. She asked asked how to tolerate managing an employee she resents.

        3. Widget Spinner*

          This is a workplace advice blog. OP wrote in about a workplace issue. Alison answered that issue.

          If OP needs advice on mitigating gentrification, they need to get that from a more suitable source, and you need to stop complaining that they got an answer to the question they actually asked instead of the one you have magically intuited they really needed.

      12. ADidgeridooForYou*

        I can’t speak to Jane’s situation since I don’t know her, but as someone who used to live in one of the top 3 cities for COL, I can say that sometimes it’s a little more complicated than that. Lots of cities are getting so expensive that even those who make high salaries are getting priced out. My friend in San Francisco pays $5k/month with her roommate for a 2-bedroom apartment in an area that’s not even popular to live in. She makes just under six figures and still has to be incredibly frugal to make rent. I can’t necessarily condone the act of moving to a comparatively LCOL town to escape it since it does price out the locals and adds to the problem, but not everyone who’s doing this is an entitled rich person just looking to buy a mansion. Most people are just victims of capitalism run amok, albeit some (like OP) are more victims than others.

      13. Ellis Bell*

        I think this would only be relevant if it were Jane writing in, or if Jane’s living decisions had anything to do with the OP. None of this stuff is any of the OP’s business! If OP were a landlord or estate agent who refused to let out of towners move in; fine! If OP wanted to consider Jane Not A Friend, or to not invite her to local social stuff, also fine. But as Jane’s manager she can’t make this a big deal between the two of them, and she certainly can’t fire her for her moving to town! So yes, all Jane needs to do (as far as OP is concerned) is a good job.

      14. bikelover*

        Maybe Jane is doing that- maybe she volunteers at a food bank or a homeless shelter- the LW doesn’t mention it one way or the other.

        Actually, maybe the LW should start volunteering at a homeless shelter. Nothing like feeling that you are being a part of the solution for helping you get over your negative emotions. Maybe she could organize a community outreach that the whole bakery could take part in. Then she could write in and tell us how this helped her attitude towards Jane, improved the living standards in her city and maybe, just maybe got her out of her own jealous mindset

      15. Lavender*

        I don’t think moving to an area with a lower cost of living is unethical in itself, as long as you’re actually, you know, living there. It would be an issue if Jane were buying property to turn into an Airbnb or to use as a vacation home or investment property—that would reduce the total number of homes that people can actually live in and would lead to housing shortages. But it sounds like she’s not doing that, which means she’s contributing to the local economy just like any other resident.

      16. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

        I really agree with this! Thanks for bringing this perspective. (I too am intrigued by how fiercely people are defending Jane, I am hypothesising it’s a mix of defensiveness around the myth of meritocracy – if people have nice things it must be because they deserve them, otherwise we have to critique capitalism and that is tiring & painful – and the impulse to rescue a damsel in distress. But I am fully projecting here, we have a bit of a damsel problem in my workplace ATM).

    2. Anonymouse Reads*

      Yes this – I could be Jane soon. I have had to take sabbatical already in the last two years because of burnout and if my family could afford it I would be working at a bookstore or small spa as a receptionist because I need the break and I would be really good at it. Going from a director to front desk would look weird I’m sure to many people but I would take it in a heartbeat if I could. This could be a wonderful opportunity to have a kind mentor and someone who you know you’re not going to have to micromanage or worry that they’re causing drama at work.

      1. A fellow former legal aid lawyer*

        I have a coworker who left a stressful job as a lawyer to take a pay cut and become an administrative assistant because she was burned out and needed a 9-5 where she can leave work at work.

        1. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

          Yes! Honourable and valuable work is honourable and valuable, and what should matter is whether the job suits the person at that time (and vice versa), not some notional hierarchy of worth/status. (This is in an ideal world though, I’m aware it doesn’t work that way)

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Yep. I took a retail job because I was out of work, depressed, and getting divorced. It was good to get out of the house, have something physical to do, and be worn out enough at the end of the day that I couldn’t dwell on my other issues.

  11. Canadian Jimmy*

    I’m in a situation like the employee, somewhat. I’m in a small office at a non-profit, with just one other full-time employee who is the boss. I received a “living inheritance” recently of 6 figures, and let that slip to my co-worker. We’re both divorced in the last few years, and I’m happily remarried to a spouse with a good income. My co-worker/boss is trying to make ends meet, and she doesn’t make that much more than me. (I’m a better value to the employer than her, frankly, but that’s a another column!) But, the financial thing comes up sometimes, and it’s a sideways slight from her about how I’ve got things cushy.

    If you’re the better-off employee… take my advice: shut up about your situation, no matter how benign the conversation might seem. Things always have a way of coming home to roost.

    1. L-squared*

      It doesn’t even sound like Jane is bragging or anything though. From what I can gather, Jane’s worst sin was, gasp, inviting her to a Christmas party at her house. Which, I’ll add, OP could have ignored since she seemed to already have an issue with her.

    2. Former Gremlin Herder*

      Yeah, this is good advice. I’m very fortunate to have a lot of financial support from my family that made it easier for me to teach on a shitty salary, and I had to learn the hard way it just makes things weird and there’s not a lot you can do to mitigate it. That being said, OP needs to find a way to be okay with this.

    3. Anon for this*

      I have also received a living inheritance, and it came with a warning to keep my mouth shut about it, especially at work, which I have followed. It has made for some interesting lunchtime conversations because people don’t know I’m one of the “rich people” they’re talking about. Incidentally, those conversations confirmed the decision not to say anything.

        1. Boof*

          Usually it’s giving someone their intended inheritance while you’re still alive (instead of after death via a will) because you’re pretty sure you won’t need it, and/or want to enjoy seeing them get it, ended up saving more money than expected, etc etc

  12. The Cosmic Avenger*

    This feels a lot like “why should they get $15/hour to flip burgers when I get paid that to work my ass off at [other job]?” It’s not that people who get less than you don’t deserve to get more than you, it’s that you’re BOTH underpaid, and BOTH deserve a living wage. And if you can get the same pay for a much less demanding and stressful job, that could exert upward pressure on the pay for your segment of the job market as people choose those “easier” jobs for the same pay.

    So, this differs because Jane obviously makes a living wage, but it’s still not her the OP should be frustrated with, it’s her employer, her industry, and her local job market.

        1. Properlike*

          And this is also the argument used against collective bargaining. “How dare they unionize when I have to work ridiculous hours for little pay!” Confusing equity with equality.

      2. yelena*

        Let’s please stop assuming that Jane is lucky to be in the position she is in. You have no idea what it took for her to get where she is in life. Pleae love to skip over the fact that these highly paid professionals have usually sacrificed loads, taken out loans, gotten educations, and much more that have gotten them to where they are.

          1. RussianInTexas*

            Loans like student loans are also you know, loans, Taken out by the terrible loan getters.

          2. Willow Pillow*

            I’ve been listening to the audio book of Michelle Obama’s memoirs, and her early years as a lawyer sounded very highly paid professional as well… until I got to the part about how much student debt she was in and her father’s struggles with MS (which he ignored to keep working and support his children). It was a real eye-opener.

        2. Snorks*

          If that’s the case, then she is lucky that the hard work and sacrifices enabled her to move forward. That’s not the case for everyone.

        3. blam*

          Do…you imagine people in low paid jobs just sit around twiddling their thumbs? It is a privilege for hard work and sacrifice to be ENOUGH to get you all that stuff.

        4. Courageous cat*

          People are also assuming that Jane must have it good in all ways of life here. She might be financially privileged, and not privileged in 1 or more other ways. She might have faced struggles LW could never have even imagined.

          We don’t know anyone’s full story, and it’s bizarre to keep assuming.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Also: Fast food is kind of hellish. It’s nowhere near as easy as people who say this want to think it is.

      1. The Original K.*

        I could never do it. I’m smart and a hard worker and I would last five minutes working at McDonald’s.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Back in my 20s – so, 15 years ago – I got fired from my “real” job and spent about 8 months working at a Target Starbucks with occasional cashiering before I found my next office job. It was hard! I don’t have the temperament for it and it was hard on my back and joints! And again – I was in my mid-20s and pretty fit, so if I couldn’t hack it then, I sure as heck wouldn’t want to do it now.

        3. Lyudie*

          For real. IMHO Jane isn’t overqualified in a practical sense for this job. Yes she could make more money elsewhere doing something else, but that’s a totally different skill set. I am in my 40s and have a master’s degree, and I would be the worst bakery cashier you’ve ever seen.

      2. Jennifer Strange*

        My first job was the McDonald’s drive-thru and it was hell (not my worst job by any means, but rough). I may have more responsibility in my current job and it may require more of me overall, but I would never trade it for fast food or retail work.

        Any time I hear folks complain that someone gets $xx to “just flip burgers” I want to point out that they’re welcome to quit their current job and take up this one. Somehow I get the feeling they wouldn’t take me up on my offer.

        2. Me ... Just Me*

          I’ll be honest. I worked at McDonald’s when I was in high school and just out of. It was fun. I worked hard and had a good time. Made about a third of what folks are paid now (or even a fourth). But, it was good work and I enjoyed myself. I’m way older now, so couldn’t do it, physically – but it definitely wasn’t the most unpleasant job I’ve had.

        3. Would you like fries with that?*

          My boss knows I’ve had it when I tell him I’m thinking of going back to work the drive-thru. I worked hard at McDonald’s, but I left work at work, wasn’t getting calls on my personal cell from the public, had good people to work with, always knew when I was leaving work, could say “no” to a shift, etc
          That said, I want to go back to work at the McDonald’s I worked at 25 years ago, not the one where I occasionally get breakfast. (They happen to be in the same physical location, but I really want to go back to McDonald’s the way it was 25 years ago.)
          The new menu, the new processes, etc, probably aren’t something I want to do. A hamburger happy meal cost less when I worked there than a hamburger does today. Also, you kids get off my lawn!

    4. Anonys*

      Ya – honestly, if you can redirect some of that rage towards Jane to the people who are dramatically increasing their rent quotes cause they think they can make more money off if it, that might make the situation more tolerable for you. I’m not going to tell you to just stop being frustrated at Jane (I do not know enough about her relationship to the economic climate to make anything resembling a “yes Jane is fighting systemic issues hard enough or not” comment, nor do I think it’s worth doing), and I typically find that trying to deal with emotions by telling yourself not to have them does not work. But actions based on frustration with Jane are not going to improve anything about the economic system in your town. Advocating for rent stabilization and affordable housing construction might.

      (If it makes you feel better at all, it might be worth reframing the issue in your head as “some people are tired of living in areas that charge quíntuple for the exact same products because corporations thought they could get away with it.” That doesn’t make moving the cost of that onto people in lower income areas by moving there okay. But I do find it sometimes makes it easier to feel sympathy when you think about what you would do if you had the option to go from meeting the bare minimum of housing and utilities to being very stable by moving, and to keep in mind that Jane and co. are probably also deeply annoyed that prices are increasing in your area as well.

      To be clear, you don’t have a moral obligation to feel sympathetic towards Jane or anything like that! But sometimes doing reframing exercises helps make it easier to work with people without feeling distracting levels of frustration, you know?)

  13. Green great dragon*

    OK, the sabbatical thing seems odd. Are there really jobs that give ‘a year or two’ paid leave, during which you have absolutely no work-related requirements?

    I suspect you don’t know the whole story here LW. Maybe she’s taking the early and late shifts because she’s doing work-related studying during the day – so effectively working two jobs for the two salaries? Maybe the working conditions at her prior job are so bad in some way that people need more than a year to recover? Whatever the reason, can you think of the other salary as delayed reward for whatever she was doing before, or whatever else she might be doing now, rather than ‘free’ money?

    Of course you might still be envious of her. If you manage a lot of people, you’ll manage a lot of people who you have cause to envy for one reason or another. Listen to what Alison says.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Sabbaticals are a thing. This is very google-able. Two years is on the longer side but it’s not unheard of.

      1. Harper the Other One*

        That’s a little harsh. Many jobs only allow sabbaticals if there is a specific learning/career development plan associated with them, and even for those that don’t require that, two years fully paid is a lot!

        Green great dragon’s point is sound, which is that OP doesn’t really know what’s involved in this sabbatical, why/how it came to be, etc. Jane could be getting anything from a full ride for two years, no strings, to two years where she can opt to return but she’s living 100% off her savings and her partner’s income, to two years of subsidized study time for a program OP doesn’t know about in exchange for a contract that ties her to her current company for multiple years after.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          That’s interesting, and possibly an academia thing? My jobs (and my parents’ jobs) that have offered sabbaticals did it specifically so you can have a break, do whatever the hell you want, and recharge. It’s a retention thing, not any kind of development thing.

          1. Dust Bunny*

            Yes, academia does it, but often to allow for off-campus research, not necessarily to do “whatever you want”. I think it’s generally understood to be a break from teaching duties for the sake of some other kind of academic pursuit.

          2. anon for this*

            Many colleges/universities I know of require a written sabbatical research plan; you have to apply with this plan and be accepted. This is not universal, some really do let you do whatever (for retention) but many these days make the sabbatical contingent on research. They also often only pay one semester, or pay half-pay for two semesters, and you need to provide your own summer funding. So if Jane is secretly an ec professor from a small liberal arts college secretly working on a book about gentrification, it could be that she’s being paid $45k over 15 months for this sabbatical.

            1. Splendid Colors*

              In the Biology department, you definitely had to have a plan for some kind of research or teaching activity.

              One of my committee members grew up in a small town in South India. IIRC, he went back there to run some kind of STEM program on his sabbatical.

              My advisor had to apply based on research proposals, but that might also have been when he had time to lead a multi-department proposal for a STEM undergrad research fellowship program for students from disadvantaged communities. (The kind of program that supports them with a stipend so they can afford to do research instead of working.) His team won the proposal.

          3. Boof*

            Yes I think academia has a habit of taking something that isn’t work and turning it in to work XD
            Technically a sabbatical is an extended break from work while still technically employed by said work. Some are paid, some aren’t. Academic sabbatical often have to have some kind of specific related academic purpose (true for my institution).

        2. Justin D*

          Yeah the ability/willingness to work odd hours tells me that study might have something to do with it. Or family care (she does that during the day).

      2. Green great dragon*

        I am aware of sabbaticals. Google does not provide any obvious links which answer the question I actually asked.

        1. Dust Bunny*

          I just googled “what is a sabbatical?” and the first result yielded this

          “What exactly is a sabbatical?

          Traditionally offered to those in academic professions, sabbatical years were originally a way to give professors a break from teaching. Professors, who were thought leaders before it became a buzzword, were given a year of leave every seven years to pursue research or just time away.”

          Which is a pretty good answer.

            2. Eldritch Office Worker*

              “Traditionally offered to those in academic professions” doesn’t mean “nonexistent in other settings”.

          2. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

            I don’t see any part of the original question that this answers. “Are there jobs that pay you for two years and don’t require you to do anything work-related?” “In the past professors got one year in seven off teaching!”

    2. ThatGirl*

      I do wonder what kind of job it is, but I’ve seen like…university professors get a year of leave to write a book or do research or whatever. It’s also possible it’s paid but at like, 25% or 50% of her normal salary so she’s not really making a living wage just sitting at home.

      1. Janie*

        Academic sabbaticals tend to be a semester and during that semester they are still doing things, but not teaching or doing administrative duties.

        I’m in a doctoral program and my advisor was on sabbatical when one semester. She got paid but spent her time writing book chapters and papers. She was still working, just away from the university. I still zoomed with her every week and she responded to emails but otherwise she was strictly at home except for a week where she went on vacation with her family.

        1. ThatGirl*

          I’ve seen them for an academic year – had my college newspaper advisor take a year to write her first novel, and she didn’t really respond to emails. She WAS working, but she could have fit in a second job if she’d wanted to, probably. (I do not know what the payment situation was there or if she was living off an advance.)

    3. techfamily*

      My brother works in tech. He will get a paid sabbatical to a destination of his choosing at five years, and a longer one at 10, etc. I’m certain it’s not far out for the director of a similar tech firm to get a year or two after a certain length of time there.

      1. M2*

        A family member was a top executive at a well-known tech firm. He was higher than Director level when after 10 years (or something I don’t remember) he got a 6 month paid sabbatical. I have never heard of a two year paid sabbatical (one year paid is known for tenure university professors but it’s for research).

        That being said she could have saved up sick or vacation leave and using it up with the sabbatical and then going on unpaid leave. Who knows.

        I do hope this hammers home how speaking about financial situations might impact others around you especially if you move to a lower COL area and how it will impact locals.

        The other thing is LW if you want to move industries and make more money maybe ask Jane for her assistance. Do you want to work in tech or WFH, you could ask if she’d look at your resume or if she knows of any openings in her industry. Good luck

      2. Bridget*

        If this is the company I’m thinking of, it’s:

        1 month paid sabbatical at 5 years
        1 month paid sabbatical at 10 years

        OR, you can skip your 5 year and get 2 months at 10 years.

        I have a close friend who works at the place I think you’re referring to, and she did the first option (1 month at 5 and 1 month at 10).

    4. nona*

      I can take a months long sabbatical from my current (non-academic/non-university job), but it’s definitely not paid. It just means I have a job to come back to and probably health insurance. So, I wouldn’t assume a sabbatical is necessarily paid.

    5. Generic Name*

      My company has sabbaticals if you’ve worked a certain number of years. I believe it’s unpaid unless you use vacation time. So Jane may not be getting paid by her tech job.

    6. Pink Candyfloss*

      This is absolutely a thing, in knowledge worker industries with a high rate of burnout, as a way to retain strong talent and not lose them to said burnout. (think tech, think pharma, think wall street)

      But it isn’t a perk just anyone can take. It has to be managed with a person’s reporting line, with HR, and with clear guidelines; for example Jane probably is allowed to work during her sabbatical but she would not be allowed to work for a direct competitor (i.e. another tech company, hence the bakery job). Usually one must be a very strong performer that the company wants very much to retain, to qualify.

    7. felis*

      From my experience, a sabbatical doesn’t mean you just get “a year or two” of paid leave. It usually means that you “save up” your pay in advance, for example by working full time for three years while earning only a 75% income during that time, then taking one year off and being paid the saved up 3*25% income. It makes more sense to think of it as a part time model, just not “I work 30 hours a week instead of 40” part time, but “I work 3 years out of 4” part time.

      1. amoeba*

        Yup, came here to say this. Have definitely heard of that kind of sabbatical, but you’d have saved your salary up for that in advance (still a pity my employer doesn’t offer any such programme, because that would be amazing for me!)

    8. Overit*

      Jane could just be using the word sabbatical as a euphemism for “taking time out of my profession”.

      1. The Original K.*

        Yeah, I have an acquaintance who took what she called a life sabbatical; it was just her taking a year off after quitting her job. That said, I do know people, including one of my parents, who took official paid sabbaticals from work.

      2. Lily Potter*

        Yeah, I wouldn’t take “sabbatical” literally here.
        I had a long-time unemployed friend who started saying she was on a “sabbatical” rather than “unemployed and being super picky about my next gig”.
        It made conversation easier with people who didn’t need to know details.

      3. Bee*

        I would definitely not assume she’s getting paid, yeah. Maybe the OP knows for sure, but I think it’s a lot more likely she’s using this as a euphemism for “I had to stop working before I had a mental breakdown, and we moved here because we could not afford our old city on one salary.”

      4. Willow Pillow*

        This is what I was going to saw – Jane could also be calling a severance a sabbatical to get around non-disclosure stipulations.

    11. Malarkey01*

      I’ve worked at several companies with planned structured paid sabbaticals- it was the way for them to hold on to employees in industries where people job hop more.
      I’ve also worked at places where there wasn’t organized sabbaticals but they were offered to key people when they were burning out or when we were going to lose someone we wanted to keep (they usually come with retention clauses).

      Since she mentions move out from the mainland this sounds a lot like WA or CA which are tech heavy (they are a big non academic user of sabbaticals).

    12. Hi, I'm Troy McClure*

      I’ve seen it primarily with academia, clergy, and occasionally government workers (in highly specific contexts). Usually, you’re meant to be studying/writing/working to improve your career in some way.

      1. Anyone*

        I’ve seen people getting paid to stay home while they wait out a non-compete agreement, too.
        For that matter, she could be calling it a sabbatical but it’s some kind of settlement or payout for … something. But if you don’t want everyone in your new town to know that you’re the whistleblower that caused *something that everyone has heard about* to happen or a victim of *famous* sexual harasser, well, sabbatical is a good term that doesn’t make people want to dig deeply into your background.

    14. SofiaDeo*

      Yes, I have a cousin in tech who got lengthy sabbaticals. Because when he was working, it could easily be 12+ hour days for months on end. He chose to stay home & sail local lakes, others travel. Jane appears to want to stay home but keep busy/get out of the house/meet new people. I ended my career (consulting/IT administrative in the healthcare sector) with 5+ years of “just out of college” staff work, I no longer wanted the responsibilities of management.

      She will likely leave after her sabbatical is over. Learn what you can, while you can. I really doubt she is gunning for your job.

      I totally get the jealousy, and was surprised when I found myself in a somewhat similar situation. I was dating someone who graduated, got a well paying engineer job, while I was still in school. I could not stand hearing about all the things they purchased and did, and stopped seeing them. So I second the others who recommend no longer doing anything social. I know in small towns the social/work divide isn’t as clear cut as is it in large cities, but you really need to avoid her socially until you get a handle on this jealousy thing.

      Life is rarely fair. That’s the bottom line. Kudos to you for recognizing the emotions in you, and asking others whether your initial/gut instincts are appropriate. I have confidence you *will* get through this, overcome the way it’s messing with your head, and eventually put it in perspective. The fact that you are asking questions, sharing your thoughts and feelings here, and asking for advice, to me means you DO have what it takes to become an awesome manager and can get past this! It’s tough going through it, but hang in there!

  14. bunniferous*

    I think in her heart OP knows that none of this is Jane’s fault. Jane is just a personification of all the market forces that have changed her city. But OP needs to know a lot of these economic forces are nationwide-or at least way more widespread than she might be aware of. We’re all dealing with them. But Jane did not cause them. Maybe Jane had a very dysfunctional workplace at her other job and needed a break for her mental health, and a job in the bakery is giving a much needed break. I doubt very much that Jane is gunning for OP’s job. OP, feelings are feelings, and you are very much entitled to feel what you feel. But please, PLEASE don’t take it out on Jane.

  15. Dust Bunny*

    It might also be that the fact that Jane can afford to step away from her tech job is a contributing factor to her being good at this. It’s easier to be a good employee when you’re not feeling pinched and desperate. You could hire someone more “in need” but then you might also risk losing them as soon as something came up that paid better, or they moved out of town, or etc.

  16. Isben Takes Tea*

    Another way of looking at it is how would firing her make your life better? As Alison points out, it wouldn’t. You would lose a good worker taking shifts nobody else wants, and you wouldn’t be making any more money.

    Also, she’s not getting paid twice to work at the bakery, she’s getting paid once to work at the bakery; she just happens to have another income stream (which she earned as part of her compensation from a previous job).

    What if your boss wanted to fire you because they thought that your family should be able to live just fine on just your partner’s salary, and you didn’t need the job?

    I think it’s great you’re recognizing your feelings and that there’s probably something off about them. I’d keep exploring that, so you can become a better manager and more at peace with yourself in the context of the larger unfair situation you’re in in your city.

    1. The Original K.*

      Also, she’s not getting paid twice to work at the bakery, she’s getting paid once to work at the bakery; she just happens to have another income stream
      Exactly. It’s no different than an employee having a second job.

    2. Escapee from Corporate Management*

      That’s the key issue, OP. Firing Jane might make you FEEL better (at least temporarily), but would harm the business. As a manager, you would literally be working against not only your interests, but against the duty that you have to the business as a manager.

      Given the strong emotions your are feeling and the fact that you aren’t seeing this from a managerial point of view, please ask yourself if being a manager is the right position for you at this moment.

  17. The Original K.*

    OP, Jane isn’t doing anything at you; she’s just living her life. I get that it feels unfair, but life is often not fair, and unless you’re the wealthiest person in the world, someone is always going to have more than you. As Alison said, firing Jane is going to make you the villain in this story and would almost certainly backfire – you don’t want to be the manager who pettily fires people just because you don’t like them.

  18. Lacey*

    I totally get it. I really do. I live in an area that is extremely affordable and I know a lot of people who would be ruined if that changed abruptly.

    But don’t let your (reasonable!) anger about that destroy your job for you.
    Jane is a good employee filling gaps in your schedule. And some people who don’t really need the money are horrible, flaky employees – but she’s not!
    That’s great for you.

    And even while it’s totally unfair that Jane has so much money and you don’t – her not having this bakery job wouldn’t change that.

    1. jj*

      Thanks for this comment. I think OP deserves more compassion than they are currently receiving in the comments.

  19. Ilima*

    Like others, I feel for the OP. This is hard. I’d add that, while you shouldn’t take out your feelings on Jane at work, you also don’t have to try to be friends with her outside of work. If this woman is pushing your buttons it’s ok to just be generally polite and pleasant but maintain some boundaries socially.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Agreed. This is clearly emotional for you, OP, and I don’t think learning more about Jane’s lifestyle or privileges is going to make it easier for you to work with her.

      To be clear – Jane isn’t doing anything wrong. But your feelings are still valid, and it seems like hearing her talk about her life or seeing her house and her friends is really painful for you. Save yourself that pain. Give yourself some distance, manage from a place of indifference, and try to see Jane as your employee and not as a symbol of all these things that are bothering you.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Jane isn’t pushing her buttons, though: The OP is pushing her own buttons and blaming it on Jane. Nothing she said indicates that Jane is actively doing anything to her–she just can’t stand the whole idea of Jane’s life.

      1. Insert Clever Name Here*

        Meh, sometimes a person’s way of existing pushes your buttons. I once had a cubicle next to someone who constantly cleared his throat — it drove me batty. There was nothing wrong with him doing that, but it sure made me not want to spend time with him outside of work!

      2. blam*

        Jane isn’t intentionally pushing buttons, but it doesn’t have to be intentional. If something about Jane gets to OP, it’s OK for OP to be civil at work and otherwise have whatever boundaries she needs.

    3. L-squared*

      I think that is totally fine.

      But again, Jane seems to have done nothing wrong except exist, be good at her job, and invite OP to a party. Like, if that pushes her buttons, its 100% on her.

      1. bamcheeks*

        The “supervillain origin story” meme is usually about people encountering massive structural problems and going evil because they can’t fix them. It doesn’t mean the individual is evil, it means the system sucks.

        The person who I’ve seen it most often used about is Martin Lewis, who is a British consumer rights columnist who ten years ago was writing columns like, “here’s how to get a cheaper holiday!” and is now writing twitter threads, “nobody can possibly cope with a 500% energy bill rise, wtf wtf wtf, what is the government thinking, wtf I SAID WTF. FIVE HUNDRED PERCENT, do you HEAR yourselves”

        1. MsSolo UK*

          Honestly, I think we see it here, with Alison, too! If you look back at advice from 2010 about structural issues in workplaces, she tends much more to “you can’t change it, consider if this is the right fit, find your happiness where you can” and now there’s a lot more “unionise! Change it!”.

          (I do love Martin Lewis – he works occasionally with our organisation and he’s a lovely person in real life, and he’s completely aware of how he’s in a position to wield his privilege to hold the government to account)

      2. Temperance*

        I don’t think JB is calling OP a supervillain. It’s more like people become supervillains when they’re stuck in untenable, unjust situations. Like Magneto. #magnetowasright

        1. JB*

          That’s only partly correct. The trope starts with someone who is angry at the status quo and thinks they’ve been treated unjustly, and then decides they will correct the perceived wrongs through violent or unethical means. Earlier generations had a higher tolerance for characters who were just maliciously evil. The postmodern supervillain – like Magneto, Killmonger, or Thanos – have legitimate grievances but their proposed solutions are evil.

          OP’s jealousy is understandable, but firing the employee to resolve their insecurity is not. It sounds as if OP is lashing out at the employee as a way to take revenge on society as a whole.

      3. yelena*

        It’s absolutely not “too mean”. Doing harm to people because of your insecurities is the definition of a villain.

  21. Jane Bingley*

    Oh man, I could have written big parts of this, so much so that I wonder if we live in the same city! It really feels like anyone lucky enough to buy a house before 2020 won the lottery and I’m just screwed.

    Are there ways to channel your frustrations into political activism? That’s a healthier channel for me for sure. Advocating for rent control and excellent public transit has helped me feel like I have more control over the biggest and scariest expenses in my budget.

    1. Laure001*

      But but… How did sweet and tolerant Jane Bingley become an activist? I would totally see Elizabeth doing it though.

    2. I Wish My Job Was Tables*

      Honestly, I’d love to hear some advice on how to do good political activism for rent control and public transit. In the past, if I’m feeling bad like this, I’ve found doing community service work has helped lift my mood. I like giving back and I feel better working with people, but I’m currently lost figuring out how to channel that.

      I live in Los Angeles and I’ve lost a lot of hope that things will ever get better. I know I’ll never be able to buy a house here, but I’ve also lost hope of finding work that even pays enough that I could live in my own space, much less with my partner – I was already priced out of my last neighborhood and I’m worried that I’ll be priced out of my current one too. And to add insult to injury, when I dropped by an old apartment building I used to live in, I learned that in the four years since we moved out due to high rent, no one had lived there! They hadn’t done renovations or even rented it to anyone but they’d still INCREASED the cost of rent!

      I’d love to move away but I’ve lost hope that I’ll ever be able to buy a house somewhere else, find a job that will let me work remotely, or even live somewhere where I could budget for retirement anyway.

      I’d love to channel my rage into something constructive but I don’t know where to start.

      1. Spearmint*

        It’s not just rent control, that’s a bad aid solution. Look up the YIMBY (Yes In My BackYard) movement. The problem is we have a shortage of housing and when there’s a shortage the well off always win.

          1. I Wish My Job Was Tables*

            Thank you so much for directing me there! YIMBY looks like something I can get behind and I appreciate knowing about more groups supporting causes I care about.

      2. Julia*

        Getting involved in local politics can do alot. You could write to local officials about how important this is and ask about programs that will increase housing affordability. If there are town meetings about housing and development show up at one. In L.A. there are organizations which are doing that work (for example:https://abundanthousingla.org). You could contact local orgs and ask what kind of advocacy helps them.

        It is insanely frustrating to deal with this. I live in the Boston area and housing affordability is a huge issue. I managed to luck into buying a condo in an area that has become dramatically more expensive in the last few years. I have felt a lot of resentment towards friends who can afford to buy an entire house or offer well above asking price. I’ve tried to remember it’s not their fault as individuals and that what will help more is advocating for more affordable housing being built. Some days it’s really hard though.

  22. Allornone*

    Alison is spot on and OP really needs to radically reframe her thinking.

    But oof. I feel for the housing situation. I’m in Miami, Florida, and holy crap the situation here is getting untenable. SO MANY luxury apartments are being built to attract snowbirds, foreign nationals, and even major corporations, but none of them are remotely affordable to the average person. Rent in the average place has skyrocketed; houses… I can’t even think about houses. Heck, my rent (1 bdr, 800 sq feet) has gone from $1,200 a month to $1,600 a month in the last three years and I’M LUCKY. Most anything remotely comparable to what I have right now is $2,000 a month at least. And my salary, while not fantastic, puts me above the median income range of the city, not including my boyfriend’s salary. I don’t know how those who make less do it. Pretty soon no one that actually lives here will be able to live here.

    1. Warrior Princess Xena*

      I feel it too. I’m in the Pacific Northwest Coast area. One of my coworker’s rental is $1,700/month, and while it is in the heart of the city with access to public transit etc this is not the best city in the state (I have heard locals refer to the area as the ‘armpit’ of the state).

    2. Overit*

      My daughter lives on the Gulf Coast and her rent went from $1200/mth to $2100/mth in 3 years.
      Good news is that when they moved out, the landlord was unable to rent it again at $2100 and had to drop the rent back to $1900.

    3. starsaphire*

      California here, and, I can’t even.

      Our rent has nearly tripled over the past eight years. I can sure as heck say our salaries have not.

      How do we fix this, or even affect any change at all? We’re all so frustrated and angry about it, but that doesn’t stop it from happening.

    4. Marginalized in Music City*

      Nashville would like a word. We are at the point that blue collar workers can’t afford to live here and have to commute in, unless they bought a while back or inherited a home. Middle class professionals are finding themselves severely marginalized in the housing market. There is a lot of hard feeling against East and West coasters who moved in with chunks of cash from home sales there and drove up the cost of housing to the point of it being unaffordable by a huge part of the native population. Minority neighborhoods are being gentrified (bad enough) with nowhere affordable for them to even move to (terrible).

      If OP isn’t from Nashville, she could be. She is considering acting on terrible thoughts that many here have, but do not act upon. Which is not to say that her thoughts are okay or even defensible. But it is to say that there may be a genuine reason for it. Being forced out of your hometown by the cost of the rental and home sale market is a bitter pill to swallow.

      I’m not defending her. She needs, desperately, to redirect her thoughts and life energy, or find a different situation.

  23. Butterfly Counter*

    To add to what has already been said, the fact that Jane is on sabbatical from her job makes it SO much less likely that she’s gunning for your job, that you can start to feel a little more secure in knowing your own position is safe.

    I believe that Jane’s perspective is that she wants to think as little about work as possible (both the old job and the new), but still wants to be a part of and contribute to her community. She doesn’t want the added stress and longer hours of managing people’s schedules and personalities. She wants to come in, make people happy by selling them baked goods, and go home smelling like bread and confections. She’s willing to take on the least desired shifts to complete this.

    And once Jane’s sabbatical is over, or if the recession hits, or whatever the future holds for all of us happens, Jane and those like her might move away all on their own (or not, who knows?). You’re mad about the way things are changing NOW and want to act based on that. But you don’t know if or how they might change in the future. If, as Alison states, your boss finds out you’ve fired a great employee because of your jealousy and envy and you lose your own job, are you ready for THAT change?

    Stay the course. Keep your job. You’ll make it through and you’ll be happiest if you act in ways that you know are truly the right ways to act.

  24. Lilac*

    There’s always going to be someone richer or more-qualified or SOMETHING than you, OP. This is on you to reevaluate who you want to be and how you respond to others, because your resentment will end up dominating a ton of your responses and decisions. I hope you are able to figure a way through this.

  25. Colette*

    Would you really trade your life for Jane’s if you had to trade your entire life? Give up your spouse and kid? Deal with Jane’s health problems or self-esteem issues or marital issues or family issues (which it’s likely you don’t even know exist)?

    She’s financially better off – and that’s a significant thing, but it’s not everything. She’s not doing anything wrong by working a job and doing it well.

    I think you need to make peace with your own life, and accept that you don’t have everything you’d like to have, because this is not a problem with Jane.

    1. Miss Muffet*

      I don’t know if it was you that posted something like this ages ago or if I saw it somewhere else but it has been a really helpful perspective-setting tool for me since I saw it. We also have friends who always seem to have money for the fancy vacations or upgrades on the house that we struggle to find, but we also know they have some big internal-to-the family struggles that I’m grateful we don’t have to deal with. When you think about trading the full life over, you realize you probably wouldn’t want to. Money is great and all but it doesn’t solve all the problems.

      1. Colette*

        I don’t think it was me, but I saw it somewhere myself and found it meaningful! It’s easy to look at one aspect of someone’s life and want what they have, but when you consider the whole picture, that changes.

        In this case, Jane could be dealing with infertility, or a progressive illness, or a legal problems, or a spouse with an addiction, or any number of other things the OP doesn’t have to deal with.

      2. Gracely*

        THIS. I have a SIL who has massive amounts of money because my BIL works All.the.time. including frequent international travel, so she’s handling everything at home (kids, pets, flooded basement/etc.) all by herself. I would love to have the disposable income they have, but not at the cost of barely seeing my husband and having to handle everything at home mostly alone, or at the cost of working as much as he does.

        Whenever I get the urge to compare me and my husband’s situation to them, I try to just be thankful that their having all that money means my husband and I don’t have to worry about taking care of my in-laws as they age.

  26. Justme, The OG*

    If this were an AITA post it would be a YTA.

    But you’re self-aware enough that it isn’t. You asked for advice and you can definitely quell your jealousy into somethign useful.

  27. scurvycapn*

    Maybe I’m reading into it too much, but I couldn’t help but notice that while the LW says “I didn’t hire her (the owner did and I wouldn’t have)”, she uses the phrase “my bakery” a couple of times. It’s not your bakery.

    1. rayray*

      Also “my employee” caught my eye. Maybe we are reading too into it but I personally don’t relate to people who are this tied in to their jobs and work places if it isn’t their own business.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Eh, I think it’s very normal for managers to refer to the people they manage as “my employee(s).” Similar to saying “my manager” instead of “the person who manages me” or “my company” instead of “the company I work for.”

        1. The Original K.*

          Ha – I deliberately say “my employer” instead of “my company” because I don’t own it. It also feels more detached to me, and I’m working on detaching my identity from my work.

    2. Lacey*

      It’s pretty common for managers to refer to the shop/restaurant they manage as “My x”
      You know… to distinguish it from all the ones they don’t manage?

      1. Roland*

        Yeah, it’s very normal to say “my office” instead of “the offcie that I work in”, same thing here.

      2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        But combining that with “I wouldn’t have hired her” part shows a proprietary interest in the bakery that is affecting OP in a bad way. Jane was placed in OP’s bakery against OP’s wishes.
        That is the part that makes “my bakery” and “my employee” problematic.
        She feels Jane is an invader, not only at the employee level but for her own job.
        Instead of seeing Jane as an additional resource to learn from, she is a foreign force to be guarded against.

        1. Lacey*

          Managers often do the hiring and firing. They manage the employees. This is just a really normal way of talking.

        2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

          > Jane was placed in OP’s bakery against OP’s wishes.

          It does seem odd that the direct manager wasn’t involved in who was hired.

          1. penny dreadful analyzer*

            I do wonder if this is contributing to the resentment, tbh. I was once hired at a company where the department had two teams with two different managers. I interviewed with Manager A on the assumption I’d be on his team. I was hired… and put on Manager B’s team. I hadn’t met Manager B when I was interviewing with Manager A, because Manager B was on vacation at the time.

            Manager B hated me on sight and I was, unbeknownst to me, seen as one of Manager A’s “people” in the managerial-level office drama. When Manager A was pushed out of the company and the department consolidated under Manager B, I was let go within the month.

      3. Loch Lomond*

        Yeah let’s not nitpick normal things to say. If you were a cashier at Target, you’d still say “my target” if there were more than one in town.

    3. The Eye of Argon*

      Besides being jealous, LW seems really defensive and territorial (“my bakery). Like being sure that Jane is gunning for their job even though Jane has said she isn’t, maybe feeling a bit inadequate because Jane has a master’s and they don’t. Plus there’s an unfortunate perception of service industry people as being “less than” (been there, been treated like a brainless nonentity because I’m standing behind a cash register) compared to some white collar jobs. I wonder if LW has internalized that somewhat without realizing it.

      LW, you can’t do anything about Jane. She had different opportunities (and setbacks) than you and nothing is going to change that. All you can do is focus on yourself and feeling secure in your own choices. Are you worried that your boss would suddenly kick you out in favor of Jane? Have they ever hinted that your performance isn’t up to par or that they wanted you gone? I’m guessing not, since you were promoted. Were there chances at different schooling, career choices, whatever that you didn’t take and you regret it now? That’s past, and you’re successful in your career right now.

      It’s time for some heavy thinking on your part to find out where these feelings are coming from and to address them. I’ll bet you a nickel they were there way before Jane came along.

    4. Julia*

      You’re reading too much into it. I talk about my workplace as mine all the time. I am very aware I don’t own the library I work at or the big box store I worked at previously.

  28. Fives*

    This is an excellent response. I was aghast all the way through the letter. I hope this isn’t bleeding over in LW’s interactions with Jane. This part stood out to me at the beginning:

    “Jane is overqualified to be a cashier at a bakery, I didn’t hire her (the owner did and I wouldn’t have) but she has a masters degree…”

    I’m wondering if the LW would have hired her without knowing what she knows now. It’s fine for someone to be “overqualified” for a job. Jane clearly is enjoying this job and is good at it.

    1. Butterfly Counter*

      Also, in most job settings, degrees mean nothing. I got my Ph.D in the summer of 2010 and in that fall, I worked a temp job. I didn’t do that job any better than my coworkers around me who had high school degrees.

    2. Julia*

      The stated concern about hiring overqualified people is that they will leave as soon as they get a better job and/or they won’t do the job well because they resent it. Jane is unlikely to leave quickly for a new job since they are on sabbatical and they are doing their bakery job well. I understand being dubious about hiring someone this overqualified but it clearly is working out on a day to day.

  29. A Pound of Obscure*

    Part of me hopes this letter is fake. No one is that stunningly horrible and oblivious at the same time.

    1. londonedit*

      I doubt it’s fake. This feels like a safe space for people to write in to, and the cost of living crisis is so awful that I can absolutely imagine people rage-typing a letter like this and sending it in to Alison just so they feel like their voice might be heard. I think ‘I work hard for not much money, I’m struggling to make ends meet and whatever I do I can’t seem to keep my head above water; how come this other person gets to have XYZ and I don’t’ is a very human reaction to the sort of economic situation we all find ourselves in at the moment.

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      That’s unkind. A lot of people in the comments are empathizing with both Jane and the letter writer. Are they horrible and oblivious too?

    3. Olive*

      While I don’t think it’s helpful to speculate on possible fakes, it did stick out to me that this letter is very clearly written. Perhaps the LW should consider writing a short story!

    4. AGD*

      Envy is really, really hard. I agree with Alison that the OP needs to clamp down on it, but I also feel for them because this kind of thing is so tough to experience up close.

    5. BoksBooks*

      Consider yourself lucky that you’ve never been in OP’s shoes and that you have no reason to keep your finger on the current pulse of society.
      Resentment, fear and anger right now is sky high for the reasons OP listed.

      There are a lot of privileged people on here scolding OP but I invite you to imagine what it’s like to miss the boat and know you can never own a home or even plan your monthly expenses year over year.

      1. Lana Kane*

        And then attend a party with people marveling at how much their out-of-town dollars stretch in that area.

      2. yelena*

        Consider yourself lucky that you’ve never been on the opposite end of the unfair jealousy and resentment.

        1. blam*

          People getting jealous is rarely going to be a direct threat to your stability and wellbeing in the same way as, oh, not reliably being able to afford housing. Both things are unpleasant but can we not pretend they’re equivalent?

          1. yelena*

            Actually it can be a lot worse than just “unpleasant,” but your comment only reinforces my point that you’ve never been on the receiving end and should consider yourself lucky.

              1. Rhiannon*

                And you don’t know other people’s backgrounds. “Never been in OP’s shoes”? That’s news to a lot of Janes out there.

            2. Queer Earthling*

              Look, I agree the OP isn’t handling this the best way and needs to work on their resentment, but there’s a big difference between “People are jealous of me and it makes me feel bad :(” and “I am literally not sure if I can afford rent this month, at which point I will be homeless, with a family, in a world that is extremely hostile to homelessness.” Like. That is not an equivalent experience.

          2. Burger Bob*

            Well in this particular case, a person getting jealous is literally putting someone’s job at risk. OP is seemingly looking for reasons to fire Jane, despite Jane being a terrific employee whose only crime is having a financial situation OP is jealous of.

    6. Roland*

      How unkind. OP is in a very difficult place and has, as of yet, not actually done anything wrong unless we count thoughtcrimes. It’s not “oblivious” to be angry at rapid gentrification that puts the things you rightfully expected out of reach. OP is facing huge life-altering forces and yeah, shouldn’t take it out on Jane, but she’s not some horrible person for having feelings about it.

    7. Fluffy Fish*

      OP is not horrible. She’s human in a crap economic situation that is affecting an awful lot of people globally and she’s struggling.

      She’s knows she’s got a problem or she wouldn’t have written in. Sometimes this commentary section is way to eager to eviscerate someone asking for help.

      She writes back in and doubles down? Sure call her horrible then. But for now I think a bit of empathy is needed.

    8. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Remember the letter from the OP who was so jealous of her female employee that she actively sabotaged her?
      It was a long, hard road for OP to return from. She did well, but it took years.
      So, yeah, truth is stranger than fiction here in AAM.

      2. The Original K.*

        I thought of that letter too. That OP was fired, burned all her bridges in that industry, and I think the company had to pay the employee a settlement. The difference is that that OP fully owned that she was treating her employee badly and deserved the consequences, and I don’t think this LW is at the point where she recognizes that this is a her problem, not a Jane problem.

      3. MEH Squared*

        I was thinking about that letter as well while reading this letter.

        I empathize with this LW because they are in a difficult position, and it’s hard not to be envious in that situation. But, they can’t go down the road they are envisioning. For their own sake.

        LW, I hope you can read the comments with on open mind and try to move past the resentment you feel towards Jane.

    9. irene adler*

      It could have been a ‘heat of the moment’ letter. Maybe something you’ve never done. I know I have.

      I’ve heard some pretty awful – and unrepeatable- statements from co-workers and even my own mother, at times of upset or deep emotion. Not talking cuss words and such. Just horribly ugly statements that later on, were regretted. I won’t ever repeat them as I know it was an expression of emotion and not their true sentiments.

    10. BadWolf*

      OPs not oblivious — OP knows there’s a lot of feelings going on here.

      Even if it were fake, it sounds like a letter that’s easily happening right now in a lot of towns.

    11. wordswords*

      Really? This is incredibly unkind to someone who’s having a less than stellar emotional response to a really rough situation that, as the comments show, a lot of us can emphasize with. That situation is societal and economic, not Jane’s fault — Jane sounds like a perfectly pleasant coworker whose worst sin is inviting OP to a Christmas party where her friends and maybe also Jane were oblivious to the socioeconomic dynamics they’re part of, in a way that unfortunately hit really sharply on OP’s raw nerves of being on the feeling-slowly-forced-out side of that dynamic. But it’s still the kind of situation that can very easily leave you angry and hurting and stressed out and flailing around internally for somewhere to direct all those feelings, and resenting someone in front of you is an unfair but very human response.

      It’s a response that OP needs to squash, for Jane’s sake and their own, as Alison says. It’s not one they can afford to have towards a coworker, let alone someone they manage. But pandemic shifts towards people with big-city jobs moving to small cities and cheap areas have created real crab bucket feelings in a lot of those (formerly) cheap areas, and it’s unfair and unkind to pretend it’s some kind of uniquely horrible obliviousness for OP to have some unhealthy feelings about it.

    12. blam*

      It’s not stunningly horrible or oblivious to struggle with anger and resentment when the cost of living in your area shoots out of reach because a lot of wealthier people suddenly decided they’d like a bit of what you’re having. Of course it would be horrible to fire or mistreat Jane, and Alison was extremely clear about that. But gentrification IS a huge problem, and expecting people to have fuzzy feelings about the gentrifiers themselves is…well.

    13. SofiaDeo*

      Not true. I was Operations Manager, and did the scheduling. We were staffed 24/7, and had dedicated midnight shift staff. We also had several groups of the major holidays, and staff rotated through each holiday group. So if you worked either Thanksgiving/Xmas/New Years, you would not be scheduled the same holiday the following year. Unless you volunteered. You could email me with a preference ahead of time after X date. So if, say, you wanted every single New Years off, but would volunteer for a shift on Thanksgiving or Xmas that no one wanted, I might be able to accommodate you. How I decided to handle the midnight as well as holiday staffing was, I made a list of everyone, and ran down the list, in order, as the shifts “no one volunteered to work” came up. When you fulfilled your place on the list, you wouldn’t be scheduled again until time had gone by, and you once again came up in the rotation.

      Anyway, we also had a policy that one could trade shifts, with Y amount of notice. One person wheedled a really nice, pushover person to agree to swap their unwanted midnight holiday shift for another non midnight one. My Department Head boss was incensed, and wanted to deny the swap! They wanted to insist that this person MUST be forced to work a midnight shift! It was their turn! They could not be allowed to get out of working a midnight shift! Boss was irrational about the whole thing. I know they didn’t really like the got-out-of-the-midnight-shift person. I refused to deny the swap. It was Written Policy, they met the date notifications, no way to deny it without *me* looking like an ass. Not to mention, how it would affect the staff’s perception of ME; Department Director didn’t care. So these people Do exist, this was just one example of some other totally emotional, irrational actions.

      1. allathian*

        I hope you checked with the “pushover person” that they really were willing to swap shifts, and not bullied into it.

        1. SofiaDeo*

          Oh yes, I did. He was super accommodating to everyone, and this wasn’t the first time numerous people asked him to swap throughout the years. He really didn’t seem to care *when* he worked, and took any shift willingly from what I could see. And I tried to give him his preference when possible, I would get numerous requests for holiday shift preference. The staff who were more of the “great employee” ilk, conscientious , willing/able to help out when asked during sick or other calls, got good feedback from internal clients, didn’t cause problems with others….those people got put at the top when I was sorting schedule requests. As more of a “you are a good employee and I will try to accommodate you”. As opposed to our newbie Director, who definitely wanted me to skew things to “punish” others. Sigh. I had no interest in “managing” when the previous director left, but in retrospect I wish I *had* taken the Director position. I was more qualified than the person who took it, but I didn’t really want the headache at the time, I was fine with mid management. But it ended up being more trouble with this new, inexperience Director who resisted managing properly/ignored things. I ended up getting dragged into the Director level problems, without the pay. Plus get punished when things didn’t work out for Director, I was often the scalegoat.

  30. SometimesALurker*

    I agree wholeheartedly. The LW know she can’t fire this employee and asked for help dealing with the situation as it stands, and got a lecture instead for having admitted the irrational thought she’s not acting on.

    1. Observer*

      Well, it’s not an irrational thought she’s not acting on. It’s an irrational thought that is directly affecting how she interacts with Jane. Note that she says that she’s been “gritting her teeth” with Jane. And not only does she seem to think that firing Jane is not unreasonable, even though she can’t do that, she clearly also thinks that it’s perfectly legitimate to allow Jane’s better finances to affect how she is being managed.

      So the first thing she needs to do is reframe her thinking. Firing is TOTALLY not reasonable. Nor should Jane’s finances affect how she is managed.

      That is step one in managing Jane.

      1. L-squared*

        Every letter doesn’t need to be met with kindness. Sorry. When you want to fire someone for something completely unrelated to her job, or even doing anything wrong, that is pretty bad and should be noted.

        1. Phony Genius*

          Alison’s rules say otherwise, at least for commenters. (She can be as terse as she wants.)

          But it is difficult for us commenters to be kind to the LW when Alison gives them “tough love.”

  31. A. Tiskit & A. Taskit LLC*

    LW, what you’re experiencing is entirely normal and entirely human. Anyone who says they’ve NEVER envied anyone else for having what they want and can’t have is either younger than 2 or lying! Of course you’re envious that Jane is wealthier than you are and glides with ease through financial situations that leave you sleepless. Who wouldn’t be?

    But a hallmark of maturity is the ability to experience the full range of human emotions without acting on every single one of them. And that goes double, triple, quadruple for people in positions of authority over others! Your position of authority includes the responsibility to use that authority wisely and well, for the good of your company and its employees (without who your company would not exist.) So yes, acknowledge to yourself that you envy Jane’s wealth and all the privilege it brings, but act as the mature manager you are expected to be. And that means treating Jane as the valuable employee she is…not as the object of your own financial frustration and envy.

    1. hbc*

      I think all of us have envied someone, sure, and I don’t even see it as a negative. It’s *jealousy* that’s a problem–envy wants what they have also, but jealousy wants to take it from that person. Though the terms are often used interchangeably, I think the distinction is important.

      So it’s fine if OP has the thought process “Wow, Jane sure has it good, I wish I was financially secure enough to own a house and able to get joy* out of a job most people consider drudgery!” It’s very different if OP is looking for ways to hurt Jane, to take away that joy, to put a little dent in that financial security. That impulse needs to be quashed.

      *Reading between the lines here a bit.

      1. Bearly Containing Myself*

        The resources I’ve seen (such as Language Tool) show a different meaning for jealousy. It can sometimes be used synonymously with envy, but generally refers to a fear of losing something or being replaced.

        In this case, it appears the LW is both envious of Jane’s lifestyle and the jealousy is rearing its head in her fear that Jane might replace her as manager.

    2. Catsforbrains*

      I think this is the best and most compassionate advice in the thread. I’m so sorry that the answer to being around someone who has more (and isn’t tactful or self aware of their situation) is to dig deeper within yourself and grow as a person. I’ve been here, hell, I still struggle with this. I wish Jane was the one who had to grow but you’re the one you have the most control over.

      What was the life you expected to have? How far away are you feeling from it right now? What are some things you might do to feel a sense of agency and control again?

      I hope you end up able to see a path forward, even as systemic forces conspire against you. It’s unfair out there. It’s bullshit. And you’ll find a way to keep going.

    3. Barb*

      Oh it starts before age 2.

      Have you never seen a baby or toddler scream and grab for a toy that another child has that they want?

      It’s (fallen) human nature.

  32. Rural Juror*

    I really feel for you, OP — in general, I think removing yourself from social settings with this group is the right move. Obviously, it’s systems, not Jane, who have caused the real problem you’re experiencing. However, it’s okay to decide you don’t want to socialize with a group that makes you feel unhappy, or that continues talking about how much further their big city salary goes in the place that used to be affordable to you. That’s not fun! I know, I’m in a similar area. But it doesn’t impact Jane’s work, and the best thing you can do is move your relationship squarely into a “work” one in your mind. You’re not some sort of monster for having a bad feeling, you just know you can’t act on it at work in this way.

    1. BoksBooks*

      Thank you for responding kindly to OP
      I feel this commentariat is wildly out of touch with how bad things are right now

      1. Observer*

        Are you kidding? I don’t think that you are actually reading what people are saying – here and in general.

        I do agree with Rural Juror. But you are not being fair to the people who are being a bit more blunt.

    2. Janeric*

      I think being removed a little and cordial is a really smart idea — and because Jane is on sabbatical, it’s a problem with an endpoint.

      I have used The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook as a way to turn down the intensity of my feelings about jobs, and I think it could be useful to OP here.

      1. Janeric*

        Also, if your feelings simmer down to a less explosive level, you can eventually respond to comments about the community with statements like “Yes, we would have been able to afford a house in the pre-pandemic market, but that option is pretty much closed to us now.” — like the ultimate goal is being able to express hurt without targeting it at your employee.

  33. Laure001*

    Wow, this is a hard situation, and I really feel for OP. Honestly I feel that Allison is a little hard on her… And I am a Jane, who has already considered the move to a small city, etc.

    If OP wants to chime in in the comments, I’d love to know where it happens. In France, the situation OP finds herself in is extremely common at the moment because of Parisians like Jane, and like me, leaving the capital in spades, because of the pandemic… And disturbing the economy of local towns in a gentrification process that the locals obviously and rightly resent.

    Op, giving advice is very difficult because the situation genuinely sucks. Jane is right in making the right decisions for her life, obviously. And you would do the same. But yes, the gentrification process sucks big time for those who do not benefit from it.

    One commenter said that you should try to better your situation if you can… Take some online courses, look around if there are better jobs for you… Maybe even move somewhere else where you could be happier? It’s not Jane’s fault, it’s not yours. But you should take some steps before truly beginning to resent the universe around you.

    1. londonedit*

      It happened in England, too, with Londoners keeping their London salaries and moving out to rural areas with far lower living costs and continuing to work for their London companies remotely. Pushed up the cost of housing in those rural areas massively and left less available for the people who originally lived there. To some extent it’s flattening out now, and rents in London are massive again, because employers are requiring people to be in their central London offices 2/3/4 days a week and people discovered that when you live in the countryside you don’t have too many transport options.

    2. Ann O'Nemity*

      My hometown used to be an affordable small town before becoming a retirement hotspot for wealthy Californians. The people who work there can no longer afford to live there. I cannot even describe the level of hostility the locals feel as they are squeezed out of their community. My family just gave up and moved away. So let me say that I really empathize with the OP’s frustration.

      If I were the OP I would suck up everything I could from Jane! Management, leadership, business advice, networking connections, etc. Jane is a tech exec moonlighting in a bakery! This situation is temporary, but could be really beneficial to the OP if she can swallow the resentment.

      1. Laure001*

        That is very clever. OP could even ask Jane for advice on the “back to school” and “getting a better job” situation.

        1. I Talk About Motorcycles Too Much*

          Yes! That is what I was thinking. Heck, if she follows Jane’s advice and shows some improvement, OP might even be able to turn this into a job opportunity at Jane’s company with a good recommendation. OP could be missing out on an excellent networking opportunity here.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        Did you grow up in Ashland too? But our family hasn’t been able to live there for decades.

        Although, as I thought about it, did my parents then displace some affordable housing in Medford, which caused even poorer people to have to move away to a cheaper place? In other words, people leave places that may be too expensive for them, moving to places that then become too expensive for the people who live there. If OP found a cheaper place to live and work, would they be just as bad as Jane?

  34. Critical Rolls*

    One of the most important lessons you can learn as a manager is to mind your own f*cking business.

    Employee got a dog from a backyard breeder? Not your business.

    Employee is eating food you don’t approve of? Not your business.

    Employee has a side hustle as a birthday clown? Not your business.

    Employee is a literal Rockefeller trust fund kid? Not your business!

    How your employee performs at work is the sole arena of things that are your business. It’s only when outside things affect the work that they conceivably become even slightly your business, and that’s only in a very narrow sense.

    MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Honestly, as the manager, you can bow out of parties at the homes of your employees.
      You can and you should.
      You can limit socializing, lunching, chit chat about personal life. Did you have a nice weekend? Great. Here’s the plan for the day.
      It will be better for you if you see the staff as bakers who go home to their lives, not bakers who bring their lives to you.

      1. Lavender*

        I agree. I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong for managers and employees to be friendly and social with one another—but if the socialization feels forced or it’s causing feelings of resentment, it’s fine to have a strictly professional relationship.

  35. Lisa B*

    OP a lot of thoughts here about validating what you’re feeling – which is fair! But here’s some about how you can step back and try to be more objective in your management of the employee. You might need to be SUPER deliberate about taking a moment to check yourself before giving any feedback, particularly critical feedback. Maybe institute at least a 24 hour “cool off and reassess” period. When you notice something that Jane does bothers you, really scrutinize it and envision it as if you knew NOTHING about her outside situation. Does it still bother you? The temptation would be to slide into “look at that bitch eating crackers” so as a manager it’s really on you to make sure you’re being fair in your assessment. If you find yourself grumpy at Jane, make yourself go through her actions that day with a customer’s perspective. Would the customer have found her pleasant, on task, and productive? If yes, and you’re still grumpy, that’s probably a sign that you’re letting her non-work situation color your assessment. It’s ok to feel your feelings; they are what they are. But you absolutely cannot penalize her, directly or not, for something that’s A) not work-related, B) not work-impacting, and C) not her fault.

  36. bamcheeks*

    LW, my number one piece of advice would be boundaries. Being at a party where everyone is richer than you and is talking about how wonderfully cheap your beautiful little town is SUUUUUUUCCKS and I don’t blame you for a second for feeling completely pissed off about that.

    So here’s the thing: boundaries. Don’t have personal relationships with and go to the parties of people you manage. This isn’t a hard and fast rule– I think there are lots of places where that can work– but the danger is always that it’s going to give you information about someone that makes it hard to manage them. Sometimes it’s even positive stuff, like that you really like them and want to be their friend! In this case, it’s that Jane is way richer than you and her friends all come from a similar income bracket and that is validly haaaaard to handle. It would be better if you didn’t know it, so, pretend you didn’t, and reinstate some nice firm barriers about who you socialise with and who you don’t socialise with.

    1. bamcheeks*

      Also, I think it’s totally OK to shut Jane down when she offers management advice– even if the advice is good advice! But if you’re in a place where it’s just going to make you resent her and feel insecure in your role, then it’s just good sense to minimise that. So find someone and practice saying, “Thanks Jane, but I’ve got this”, and seek out mentors and management training elsewhere. You’ll feel much more equipped to cope with her if you feel confident in your role.

      1. Escapee from Corporate Management*

        As someone who owns a business, I disagree. I’ve told my staff from the beginning that I welcome their feedback. I’ve changed many practices because our team members had good suggestions from their own experience. Studies have shown that the best managers are ones who are open to change and listen to their team.

        1. bamcheeks*

          Right, in a good situation where you’re confident and open to feedback, that’s absolutely the ideal. In a situation where LW isn’t feeling confident about their role and already resents Jane, it’s a perfectly reasonable boundary to set.

          1. Willow Pillow*

            I don’t think that LW can be a good manager without being open to feedback, though. I know that this is often the only way up from minimum wage work… but as a new manager, I really think LW would be doing herself a disservice by taking zero advantage of all the free guidance she’s being offered.

      1. Rhiannon*

        Huh? OP didn’t have to go to that party, and I’m curious as to why she did, given her resentment toward Jane.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          I was agreeing with the comment that the party likely sucked. That doesn’t mean people were horrible, I would talk about a cheaper cost of living too; I wouldn’t know how expensive and worrying it was for OP. As for the option of not going, I think they were trying to lean into the fact that they were in some ways getting along with Jane. I don’t think they were expecting their envious work feelings to be an issue at a party, sometimes our feelings are really inconvenient.

  37. Fluffy Fish*

    OP first I’m really sorry for how things have changed and affected your situation. It’s incredibly frustrating to be left struggling through circumstances completely out of your control. And yes, it is unfair and unequitable. And I get why Jane, who represents all you are struggling against, feels like the enemy. And I get why resenting her feels like a bit of a solution – its something you can control in a situation not of your choosing and not in your control.

    That said – reframe reframe reframe. Jane isn’t the enemy. And I know you now this and I know you’re not a bad person. Alison’s advice is spot on.

    What I would like to know is – are you happy with your job? Or do you feel stuck? It’s just a hunch and maybe I’m off base but I get the feeling that all this Jane stuff is really at the core you’re not happy with your career. If that’s the case – you can change careers. Maybe it would require some training or schooling but managing a business including employees is valuable transferable skills. And I echo what others have said – Jane sounds like she’s happy to help you.

    Maybe this isn’t the horrible situation you think it is – maybe its an opportunity.

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Yes, I got the feeling part of it is due to OP’s perception of Jane treating the job as a little hobby, something you do and do when you burn out of your ‘real’ rich tech life. It seems almost like poverty tourism, Jane is playing at being a lowly bakery worker for something different to do… I don’t see it that way myself but I do wonder if there’s a bit of that in the motivation.

      1. Maisonneuve*

        Except she’s taking the lousy shifts and doing her job well. She doesn’t just swan in when she feels like it. It doesn’t sound like a hobby but a different kind of job that she takes seriously.

  38. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

    “ You’re human, you’re going to have those feelings sometimes. That’s not the problem. The problem is that you’re not applying any critical thinking, or ethics, to those feelings at all — you’re just letting yourself indulge them, and when you do that in a job where you have power over other people’s lives, you can very quickly become a Terrible Human. As a manager, you have a moral and a professional obligation to recognize when you’re in danger of that happening and rein yourself in.”

    If I was reading this on paper, this is the section I would have highlighted and underlined.

    Please talk to someone, OP. Even post on r/AskaTherapist or r/InternalFamilySystems for tips!

  39. Nick*

    Watching “out of towners” come in and directly cause such significant inflation in housing costs is so gut-wrenching. I can absolutely see why LW is harboring serious resentment. It is happening in my state and I went from being able to afford a 5 bedroom, 2500 sq ft house on two acres to a 3 beroom 1400 sq. ft home on a small lot. That is how much the price of homes changed in the space of about 9 months. All due to folks selling their properties in high COL areas and moving to my very low COL state. They brought their COL with them by increasing demand on nice homes. For the lower cost homes, multi-national property management companies are buying them just to significantly raise rents. Its debilitating and these folks really should be told what they are doing to people. How nice for her, she is “tourist” working.

    Allison’s advice is good, but damn, I can empathize with LW. A lot. But to tell her she might need to quit management on top of seeing her buying power, and thus her standard of living, evaporate is just kicking a person when they are down. I am not sure Allison is really in touch with what is going on in that sphere.

    1. Colette*

      It doesn’t matter. If she’s judging her employees by how much money she thinks they have instead of how they’re doing their jobs, she shouldn’t be managing.

      Yes, it sucks that the cost of living has gone up in her town (as it has done pretty much everywhere). That’s not Jane’s fault.

      1. Nick*

        But it is partially Jane’s fault. Partially. She is tourist working, is contributing to significant inflation, and seems oblivious to how all this will appear to the people she is “slumming” it with. That doesn’t mean LW is right by any means, but I don’t think you or Allison is really understanding how bad things are getting for a lot of us and how there are easily discernable and direct causations for the housing problems in particular.

        1. Colette*

          She’s literally not tourist working – she’s working a local job in the town she lives in. There’s no indication that she’s slumming it – she’s living there and working a local job.

          I understand – I could not afford to buy my house today – it’s worth probably 5x more than I bought it for, and my salary has gone down.

          But that has more to do with things like AirBnB taking rental properties off the market, corporations paying as little as possible, companies buying up houses to control the market, and people leaving small towns for the city, etc. than Jane.

          Jane lives in this town, works in this town, and, presumably, spends money in the town. If she has children some day, they will go to school in that town. That’s what small towns need, if they’re going to continue to exist.

          1. Lydia*

            Let’s just start by saying Jane is not responsible for how the LW is acting, feeling, or behaving, but Jane is literally taking a paid two-year sabbatical from her high-paying tech job to work at a bakery. She is tourist working. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but it’s disingenuous to say Jane is just a person working a job in her community. She is part of the problem, even if she isn’t the problem itself, and when you’re part of the problem, it’s your responsibility to mitigate some of your negative impact.

            1. Colette*

              Has Jane said she is going back after her sabbatical is over? She could be changing her career; she could have been laid off and her “sabbatical” is severance; she could be on medical leave due to burn out.

              And she’s not sitting on the couch, she’s working a manual job no one else wants, in her community.

              Would her new community be better off if she quit and no one did that job? Would they be better off if she went to the city to work and spent her money there?

            2. Carlene*

              Jane lives in the community and works in the community.

              Would you call a military spouse posted to a town for two years (i.e. they know they’ll be posted someplace else in 24 months) who got a job in a bakery a tourist? If not, then Jane isn’t either.

        3. to varying degrees*

          While I do see your point about the gentrification, this person’s town is not the only place where this is happening and the assumption that just because people here disagree with you means that “they just don’t understand” is rather obnoxious and insulting. I’m in the LW’s situation (housing prices through the roof, tons of people pouring in, and currently living in a double wide from 1978 in a hurricane prone state) and the LW is not on the moral high ground here. She is taking out a legitimate issue on a person who does not deserve it. And while some might be reading in some contrition on behalf of the LW, I do not, so yes, this person does need to be called out on it.

        4. Oxford Comma*

          I am missing how Jane is a tourist. She’s not staying at an Air BnB. She’s working. Most retail and food service places throughout the States are desperate to hire (I am assuming the OP is in the States). I don’t know if that’s the situation for OP, but she did say that Jane is fine with taking the shifts that they cannot fill.

          I fully understand how bad things are for many people, but this is not something anyone should be placing at the feet of Jane as her fault. I’ve got a friend with a masters degree earning less than 30k a year. Should she be ethically obligated to quit that job so that someone without one can take it? This reminds me of the thinking that went on for decades where managers would routinely pay men more than women “because men had families to support.” We don’t know enough about Jane. Just that she has a nice house, a masters degree, is on some kind of sabbatical, and that her friends may be tone deaf to the situation the community is in. None of that is really germane to the situation.

          1. Nick*

            By tourist working I mean she does not need the job, is working way below her qualifications, and by all appearances seems to be doing it just to take a break from her real job and life. This is a blip in her world where she is just taking a vacation from her real life. She is just a tourist in LW’s world. I also am trying to be clear that OP is not approaching this in a healthy way, but I also don’t think folks are really understanding where she is coming from.

            1. Oxford Comma*

              So Jane doesn’t have the right to take a job in the town in which she lives “working the shifts no one wants” because she’s overqualified? Think about what you are saying.

              1. Callie*

                She has the right but it’s also predictable that other people will have feelings about it. That’s life.

              2. Rosemary*

                I actually if Jane is taking those shifts specifically BECAUSE no one else wants them. She realizes that she does not “need” the job, and is taking shifts others don’t want/can’t take (because of schedules, childcare, etc) – and leaving the better shifts to those who really need them. She isn’t “taking” from anyone.

            2. Carlene*

              Jane has chosen, for whatever reason, to work in a bakery. She lives in the town.

              Why judge Jane for this?

        5. JB*

          It’s really not Jane’s fault. At all. She’s just living her life and doing what she wants to do, and she isn’t harming anyone. I don’t care whether Jane is working at a bakery or raising tigers in Oklahoma. What she does with her life and her money is nobody else’s business.

        6. Georgia*

          No, it’s not Jane’s fault.

          First, getting to a place first doesn’t mean you get to decide who lives there. Period.

          Second, how is she a tourist? She has a job in the place that she lives.

          Third, individuals don’t contribute to inflation – it’s a combination of many, many supply chain/societal/federal/corporate, etc., factors.

        7. bighairnoheart*

          Hmm. I think we need to remember that it’s inappropriate for a manager to be preoccupied with things like where an employee lives, how they spend their time/money, how much money they have to begin with, etc. How many letters have we seen where a manager who does that is clearly in the wrong? I think OP wrote in for a gut check, so I’m really hoping they take away the right message from Alison’s advice and these comments. I get why you feel this about people in Jane’s position generally, but it’s not even remotely something that OP should be thinking about when it comes to managing this employee.

        8. Julia*

          It’s unclear if Jane is oblivious or not. She hasn’t talked to LW about how her salary would have gone further in this area. People at her party did that. She isn’t avoiding doing work or being contemptuous of the bakery. She’s trying to help the LW out.

          I 100% understand why the LW is angry and upset. Those feelings are fine to have. What isn’t fine is taking them out on Jane.

          1. Willow Pillow*

            I think LW is a bit oblivious, specifically about that party. She’s a new manager and we all learn things the hard way sometimes, so I mean that in the kindest sense… Someone with more experience would likely not have attended that party period, though, which seems like it would have removed those factors that LW is struggling with.

        9. Mill Miker*

          For all we know, Jane moved to LW’s town because even wealthier people moved in wherever she was living before, and drove up the cost of living there to the point where she and her family could barely afford rent.

          She and her friends could have been in the same boat LW is in right now, before giving up and moving somewhere they can afford to live.

          If you ignore the landlords buying up properties to rent them out, and the people buying second homes, a ton of the people moving to “small towns” are moving there because they got priced out of the small city they were in by people moving there who were priced out of there medium-sized city by people moving there from the big cities because everything got more expensive.

    2. Nick*

      And maybe it isn’t great to tell LW they are on a path to becoming a terrible human. Kind of appalled at that line. A shameful thing to tell someone who is so obviously struggling with a lot of complex issues.

      1. Observer*

        Really? What the OP wants to do is shameful. Doing it would absolutely be a major step to becoming a shameful person.

        We can have all the sympathy in the world for the difficult origin stories of villains. That does not make them less villainous. The OP is not a villain. But if they continue to act on their extremely unfair feelings, that could change.

        The OP doesn’t sound like a bad person. But they do sound like someone who is not thinking about how bad their current train of thought is, and they are not thinking of the longer term effects on their ethical / moral character. I think that a sharp wake up call is useful in this context.

        1. Robin*

          She’s…not actively trying to fire her, though. She wants to, recognizes that that choice would be bad, and asked in her letter how to manage her anyway. I don’t think opening the advice with “you’re going to be a villain” is particularly helpful.

          1. June*

            I’m appalled at the number of commenters who are looking at this as a LW seeking advice for how to best fire someone, but I probably shouldn’t be because that’s what Alison took from the letter, too. The comments are probably informed by that, but clearly “I want to fire her” was said as a vent at the end of a letter that is about something else: Resentment over changes in which Jane plays a role (even if she didn’t realize or mean to) and how to be a better manager considering the scenario. I hope the LW isn’t reading as most of these comments misinterpret her intention – many of them are, as Alison would say, “unkind”.

      2. Loch Lomond*

        If they make the bad choice, they are on that path. If they don’t, they’re not. Someone without a clear ethical framework in their own head sometimes needs things called out that clearly.

      3. JB*

        Doesn’t seem that complex. OP wants to fire Jane because she is jealous, not because of anything Jane actually did. Seems pretty terrible to me.

      4. Willow Pillow*

        Maybe LW shouldn’t have written in to AAM, then? Given the number of times Alison has spoken about Hench recently (which I really need to read myself), I’m not surprised this is where her response went.

    3. BoksBooks*

      Thank you for this, you have verbalized my rights on this, many here don’t grasp the situation and are kicking OP when she’s down because she’s not thinking 100% like they want her to.

    4. Observer*

      But to tell her she might need to quit management on top of seeing her buying power, and thus her standard of living, evaporate is just kicking a person when they are down.

      No it’s not. Because as much empathy as I have for the OP, what Alison said is true. If the OP can’t get a grip, they cannot manage. They simply lose the capacity to manage effectively.

      1. June*

        Unfortunately, LW wrote to get help with exactly this – getting a grip. And she is not getting that help because one single line (“I want to fire her” ) was taken as literal and not seen in the context of the whole letter for what it is: The LW venting.

        1. Observer*

          This line was not just the OP venting.

          And the only way the OP is going to get a grip is to realize that this kind of thinking is toxic. Because the context of the letter is also that she’s essentially accusing Jane of dishonesty (“she’s getting paid twice”) or double dipping, which is simply not true.

          That kind out of touch resentful thinking has to change. And the only way it’s going to change is if the OP understands very clearly that it’s toxic.

          1. June*

            You give her absolutely no credit for knowing that her resentment can become toxic, when she wrote in to talk about that problem exactly that. She ends with “How do I manage her now that I know she’s making more money than I do in a year plus her bakery wage?” THAT was the point of her writing. Yet everyone has piled on based on an an exasperated vent.

            Have you never wished that the thing prompting negative feelings would just disappear? But you know that is not reality? That is what is happening here. This LW has been done a real disservice today.

            1. Observer*

              Right- She wants to know how she can manage someone she would have fired if she had had the power to, and “it’s not fair”.

              That’s not just an exasperated rant. And until she can see how far beyond that she has gone, and how toxic her thinking, nothing is going to change.

    5. Robin*

      Yeah, I think the LW is trying, but GOD rich out of town gentrifiers coming in really gum up everything for everyone else.

      1. Colette*

        It’s really likely that Jane (and her friends) are not rich. They didn’t move to this town so they can roll around in a room of coins like Scrooge McDuck; they moved there so they could afford to buy a place to live.

        Should they have stayed in a place where they could never afford to do that – I.e. be in the position the OP is in?

        Would it be ok to move there if they’d grown up there?

        1. Temperance*

          Pushing back on this: Jane and her friends are “rich” in comparison to OP and many others in her neighborhood. Literally nothing in the OP reflects that Jane and co. were unable to afford housing where they lived, but we know that they were able to buy bigger, and newer, in OP’s hometown.

          If you’ve not been lower income, you can’t relate, but middle class and upper middle class folks are “rich” in comparison to you.

          1. Colette*

            They’re relatively well off, sure, but they’re not rich. It’s the difference between being able to afford a plane ticket and being able to afford a plane.

            The people I know who are moving out of the city are doing so for one of two reasons:
            – being closer to family, or
            – being able to afford a place they otherwise would not be able to afford.

            Moving is a lot of work, both in the actual move itself and in the aftermath (e.g. find new doctors/social groups/activities). People generally don’t do it without a reason.

            1. Temperance*

              When you can’t afford the gas to get to the airport, the plane ticket is just as out of reach as owning the plane is.

              1. Colette*

                Sure, but that doesn’t make the person who can afford the gas & plane ticket rich.

                I understand that Jane & her friends are better off than the OP. I just don’t think that they’re doing anything wrong by living their lives and making the best decisions for themselves. I could see the OP objecting if they moved there and didn’t contribute to the community (e.g. worked in the city & bought groceries/etc. there so didn’t support local businesses) but Jane is working locally in a local business. So she’s just someone who moved somewhere she thought offered her a better life as billions of people have done before her.

                My mom left her small town to move to the city for a better life. If I moved back to that small town and took a job in the bakery, how would that be wrong? Would it be wrong if I used money I earned in the city to buy a house?

                1. Stokes*

                  I think the issue here is that Jane is on sabattical from her tech job that’s still paying her. I doubt the LW would have written in in the same way if this was Jane’s only job.

          2. Observer*

            I don’t really think it matter if they are actually rich or they just look rich to the OP.

            Their move has collectively created problems like the OP. That’s real and needs to be acknowledged. At the same time, by and large, people are moving for reasons that are not that much different that those of the people who have a lot less money. The fact that they have more money and access doesn’t mean that they don’t have real struggles or that it’s not ok for individuals to try to reduce those struggles.

    6. DomaneSL5*

      Nick, You wrote what I was thinking. I work in real estate/property management, and seeing how the folks fleeing high COL areas to my area and driving out first time home buyers and folks struggle to rent is very hard. These folks moving here don’t really add much either, it isn’t like they are working for the local companies, they work for out of state corporations. Sure the new arrivals pay taxes, but they push out locals too. Not sure one can put a price on that end result.

      1. June*

        This is happening in my city, which is a small city that is an hour away from a major city and quite commutable by train. It didn’t impact me personally because I worked from home before the pandemic, but it is impacting people I know. Imagine having a plan in place that included things like when to start a family that is based on when to buy a house, then having all that blown up? And then you ask advice on how to be a better manager given the built-up resentment you’re trying to control, and having one throw-away vent line (“I want to fire her”) taken literally and not as the exasperated vent it clearly was?

    7. is this dystopia?*

      In regards that there is sympathy to LW’s economic and systemic struggles (-not- in regards to Jane personally) I really don’t think anyone who is a homeowner should be arguing this particular comment on the pain: to be renting and struggling in a high cost of living area. Unless you are renting and struggling – right now in 2023 – maybe don’t criticize that aspect of LW’s pain. You can call her out on the work stuff but don’t pretend you know what it’s like right now in 2023 to not have secure, permanent housing.

  40. Gracely*

    LW, you also mentioned one thing that, apart from the second income stream Jane has, will create an imbalance between people: you have a kid and she doesn’t. Kids are Expensive and Time-Consuming, as I’m sure you know. Having or not having a kid can make a huge difference in what disposable income people have, but the kid is worth it, right?

    You just cannot compare yourself to people like this–it is almost always a road to unhappiness, because you are only seeing the good things, and not the bad things that people tend to keep hidden. You probably have employees who envy you your position!

    I get that it sucks if you look at it as what you don’t have that Jane has. But if you try and look at what you do have, you’ll be a lot happier, and less upset with Jane. You are different people, with different priorities, different histories, different skills.

    You have an employee who takes the shifts no one wants and is helpful and willing to share her knowledge. That’s worth SO MUCH as a manager. Don’t take it for granted.

    1. Anonymously Yours*

      Here’s OP firing Jane:

      OP: “You’re fired, Jane.”
      Jane: “What? WHY?”
      OP: “Your house is nicer than mine.”

    2. Willow Pillow*

      I have thought this too. I strongly support the right to choose – not just whether to have kids, but how – and I know it’s not always a choice for various reasons that get glossed over. Short of a collectivist utopia, though, I don’t see how having children wouldn’t take a lot of extra resources.

  41. Keymaster of Gozer*

    There’s an employee of mine who’s never had a single health issue in their life. It would be oh so easy to feel utter jealousy because I have to struggle with abysmal health (mental and physical) and sometimes the world just isn’t fair.

    But while the feelings are normal, I have a choice whether to actively think on them. I choose not to.

    Because ultimately – what is that going to accomplish? I’ll feel twenty times worse and then run the risk of treating them poorly which would risk MY job and therefore make my life much, much worse. So the weight of the consideration is simply down to: what is better for me?

    And the answer is: treat people the same. Because leaving aside all the ‘you do not know what the other person is suffering’ stuff (which is a valid thought also) it’s far less stress on your own mind.

  42. Cattuccino*

    I just want to chime in with sympathy for OP. While alison is right about action that should be taken (or not taken), I dont think you are wrong for your feelings, and i dont blame you for them. This blog may not be about housing crisis and inequality, but since work, pay rates, and whats affordable are tied to that, lets just have it:
    Me and my partner both have our phDs, in our 40s. We moved from a 500 sq ft to 750 sq ft rental recently, and having a dishwasher and in-unit laundry is a real upgrade for us. Scanning real estate websites, any place with a second bathroom in the area is literally over half a million dollars. We are not in new york or SF or anything like that. I also have colleagues who i know make less than me and own houses in much more expensive areas.

    OP, your emotions are raw and normal and, i suspect, what many people in our situaton feel. You’re not alone in your frustration, fear for the future, and sense of loss. I dont want to put anyone’s head on a chopping block, but it’s truly a shitty situation.

    1. Clobberin' Time*

      It is absolutely a situation, but OP is making Jane the emotional dumpster for all of her feelings about that situation.

  43. colormebadd*

    I would also encourage the OP to reframe their thinking. You write, “She’s given me tips on how to manage people because this is my first time, and I can’t help but wonder if she’s going to try to get my job.” Instead of getting stuck seeing her as competition, see this as an opportunity to get feedback and tips on how to improve your own skills as a manager as much as possible. Trust her when she says she’s on sabbatical. She will probably return to her old job in a year or two, and in that time, you can work to become a better manager.

    1. AGD*

      The kinder and fairer you are to her, the more likely it is that she’s going to be able to help you in some way someday. What if she ends up being the person who 4 years from now sends you an opportunity or a way of applying for a business-related grant or something?

  44. What She Said*

    A lot of good advice here but I want to encourage you to look at this differently. It won’t be easy but if you try it could help.

    It does not appear Jane wants to manage so she is not after your job. When your thoughts go there remind yourself, she doesn’t want to manage. Now you have someone willing to take the unwanted shifts. Do you know how rare that is your type of work? Let her take the unwanted shifts. You also have an opportunity to learn from a great mentor on how to manage. Take this as a chance to learn more. To be a stronger and effective manager. Those skills are hard to learn but they will take you far in your career.

  45. Lavender*

    Jane sounds like the kind of employee many service-industry managers can only dream of having: she’s there because she wants to be, not because it’s her only option. That’s a good thing, and it’s a sign that the bakery is an enjoyable place to work (aside from the pay). I have a feeling that a lot more people would happily work in retail and food service if the pay and management were better, and this is an example of that.

    That said, I do understand OP’s frustration. Everybody deserves a living wage, and they’re not wrong for resenting the fact that they’re not being paid what they’re worth. But the takeaway isn’t that Jane should earn less, or that Jane is a bad employee because she has other sources of income. OP should *also* be earning a living wage, regardless of what Jane is earning.

  46. MuseumChick*

    I can understand some of your feelings. One of the hardest things (IMO) to come to terms with as an adult is life isn’t fair. So many people I know are doing better than me because they married people who now have great careers making great salaries. I’m in may mid-30s and haven’t found my life partner yet. I often image what it would be life to split the cost of everything with another person and all the things I would be able to do/afford. And I have moments of feeling slightly miffed that so many people have that and I don’t. Part of maturing in recognizing those feeling and then….moving on. Jane is good at her job and has had a bit of more luck in some ways than you. She is not the villain here, but at the moment, she represents, is a symbol of, a lot of what you are struggling against. Try and reframe that thinking.

  47. King Friday XIII*

    I know it’s hard, OP, but I think you wrote to Alison because you knew she’d tell you what you needed to hear. I live in a west coast city that had an influx of Silicon Valley expats so we’ve been living with this for years; it seems like every time Queen Sarah and I are about to make it up a step on the ladder, the ladder gets shoved higher, and we’re doing well compared to a lot of other non-tech people here. I wish you luck with both your feelings and your finances; there’s no good answers but the one thing you can control in all of this is how you deal with your feelings.

    1. June*

      She wrote to Allison to get advice on how to manage well through resentment, included one throw-away vent at the end about wanting to fire an employee (that she clearly values!!) and is being given “advice” on why she shouldn’t do that.

      1. What the heck*

        LW wants to fire Jane but somehow “clearly values” her? Are you even reading the comments you’ve been posting here, or are you typing in your sleep?

  48. MuseumGal*

    My city is going through a very similar situation right now, so I get how emotionally fraught seeing so much income inequality all the time is. It is incredibly demoralising to watch a place you’ve known and loved your whole life suddenly become unaffordable. It’s important to remember though that this is just part of working with other people. They’re going to come from different backgrounds and that includes financial situations. Some people have family money, some have wealthy partners, some have financial burdens, like supporting extended family or medical bills, that mean they struggle even with a good salary. If someone’s personal life isn’t interfering with their work (and it doesn’t sound like Jane’s is) it’s not fair to punish them for it.

  49. Karen*

    As someone who is on the Jane side of things, I can tell you right now people get burnt out. I left my job of 20 years because I was completely burned out and unappreciated and I don’t think I’d ever want to be at that level again. I know not everyone is able to do this, but be kind – everybody is fighting a battle that you don’t know anything about.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Yes. It can be so hard to see someone else have the thing you believe would fix everything in your life – be that a money, family, health, whatever your personal struggle is. But everyone has their own burdens, and it sounds like Jane wouldn’t even be in your life unless she was dealing with very real problems of her own.

    2. Lavender*

      For all we know, Jane could be planning to leave her husband and needs multiple streams of income to save for after she moves out. Or she’s on sabbatical because of a medical issue but still needs to work a second job to pay off her medical debt. Or for whatever reason, she’s not sure if she’ll be returning to her old job when her sabbatical is up and took a second job just to be safe.

      Or maybe not! Maybe she doesn’t need the money and just felt like working at a bakery for a year, and that’s also perfectly fine. But that’s why it’s generally not a good idea for managers to make assumptions about their employees’ personal life choices, because there are often pieces of the story that are impossible to see from the outside.

  50. Squeakrad*

    Maybe I’m not as good a person as the rest of you, but I have a somewhat different take on this. Especially when the letter writer indicates she went to Jane’s for a party and many of the people there were seemingly flaunting their good luck in being able to purchase big houses on their city salaries. That is very hard for a local to hear. We see it in San Francisco but San Francisco has always been a high cost of living area so it doesn’t pinch as much. But if I wanted to buy a house here, I’d feel very differently.

    And I saw it in other cities even before the pandemic — workers who were able to work remotely buy houses in somewhat depressed areas and still make their big city salaries and are able to push the prices up for everyone. Just because Jane didn’t start The problem doesn’t mean she’s not part of the problem. I think it’s a lot easier to be a gracious person at work if you actually don’t need the money that you’re living on from that job.

    And I am with the letter, writer, on Jane’s helpfulness in management techniques. I would absolutely think she was gunning for my job .

    So while I don’t think the letter writer should try to fire her or get Jane in trouble, I do think her resentment is entirely warranted, and that Jane is not a great person.

    1. Czhorat*

      That’s a lot to read into it, and you may be right or may be wrong. It’s hard to say, but the odds of someone being a great person seem to drop as they get more wealthy; if Jane doesn’t need the money and is doing the bakery thing on a lark during her sabbatical then yes, she is taking an opportunity that someone else might truly need.

      I wonder what her endgame is. To work at the bakery for two years and then go back to her other job full-time? To try to take OP’s job and transition into running the bakery? Something else?

      That’s all speculation. All OP can do, sadly, is find ways to accept the situation and treat Jane lke any other well-performing employee.

      1. JimmyJab*

        I mean, the LW said no one else would take the shifts Jane takes, soooo it doesn’t seem like she’s stealing a job from someone who needs it.

      2. Happy New Year*

        Wait…you shouldn’t take a job if you don’t “need it?” I hope that isn’t what you mean. How would you even determine need? Isn’t this what we lament (and is illegal) when employers pay a man more because he has a family to support v. a single woman (for example)? And maybe people don’t need the job for the money, but for the connections, or the continuity of employment, or to get out of the house and be with people, or to get enough social security credits, etc.

      3. Carlene*

        Jane is working in a bakery and is good at her job.

        Why she is working in the bakery is irrelevant. What she will do after she decides to not work in the bakery any more is also irrelevant.

        Do you assess everyone’s motives for taking a job? Put value judgements on everyone who move to a new job (or industry) after a year or two?

        1. Rhiannon*

          It’s like the LW who wrote in that when she asked her boss for a raise, boss wanted to go over LW’s budget and remarked that if LW didn’t spend so much money on coffee, and cut back on other things, LW wouldn’t need a raise.

      4. Lavender*

        We don’t know a ton about Jane’s personal situation, but we do know that Jane explicitly told OP that she has no plans to take over as a bakery manager. Could she be lying? Sure, but I see no glaring reason not to take her at her word.

    3. Kitry*

      Yes, the party conversation was thoughtless and out-of-touch at best, actively arrogant and unkind at worst. LW has some substantial work to do on managing her jealousy, but it sounds like Jane and her friends also have some work to do on self-awareness and kindness.

    4. Hi, I'm Troy McClure*

      I 100% would have said something to put a pin in them. Probably a good thing I don’t have a lot of wealthy friends, but yes, people need to hear it and understand the impact of their choices.

    5. Nia*

      Absolutely. The fact that she and her friends are flaunting their good luck speaks extremely poorly of both her and her friends.

      1. Anonymously Yours*

        Maybe the OP heard a comment (at what was obviously a private gathering, not, like, the bakery counter) of words like, “I’m so happy we were able to come to Town and buy a house here, it’s so affordable!” and you heard “FLAUNTING THEIR WEALTH”?

        1. Rosemary*

          Same. Perhaps they were flaunting their wealth. But just as likely they were simply saying something like you suggested. I get that people need to be thoughtful of what they say where, but on the other hand they were at a party with (presumably) many of their peers and had what – in that circle – is a reasonable conversation.

    6. Anonymously Yours*

      An experienced manager shares wisdom with you and your first thought is “she’s gonna take my job?”

    8. Hiring Mgr*

      “So while I don’t think the letter writer should try to fire her or get Jane in trouble, I do think her resentment is entirely warranted, and that Jane is not a great person.”

      To paraphrase StarTrek TOS “Caesar, Genghis Kahn, Napoleon, Stalin, Jane, Kronus 4, “

    9. Stokes*

      This. Jane seems completely unaware of her privileges and how how she wields them affects others around her. I get that LW ultimately can’t let that affect how she manages Jane, but I really think Alison (who I almost always agree with) and a lot of the commenters took LW to task far more than necessary. Real harm is being done in many communites and while it’s not all on one person, it’s pretty awful when people aren’t aware of their impact at all. And it’s awful when we can’t speak the truth of that at our jobs. 100% with LW here. Do what you need to do to keep your job, maybe talk to a therapist to help you manage your totally legitimate feelings in a way that doesn’t end up harming *you*, but I don’t think you’re in the wrong for feeling this way, or for wishing someone else had Jane’s job.

      1. Rosemary*

        Where in the letter are you getting that Jane is “completely unaware of her privileges”? Should she not work at the bakery at all (despite taking the shifts no one else wants – which to me suggests she knows exactly how privileged she is, and is leaving the more desirable shifts to those who need them)? Should she keep secret or lie about where she moved from? Should she have not invited her co-workers – some of whom she might actually consider to be friends (and vide versa) – to her holiday party because – GASP – we can’t have the “peasants” see how we live? Maybe Jane does need to be more careful with what she says (assuming she is actually saying anything at all) – but she also should not have to police everything because she is more fortunate than someone else.

        1. Stokes*

          I suppose I’m seeing Jane as a symbol for the group of people in her situation (living on big city tech money in smaller towns) who generally seem oblivious to their respective privileges and the effects of their choices, which isn’t fair of me to apply to a single person, you’re right. I do agree with others on this comment that we don’t know enough about Jane, and I do agree that if it’s hard to fill her shift then it might be less of a problem than if she was taking shifts for which there was high demand among un/underemployed folks while she already having a significant salary elsewhere. But I also completely get LWs frustration and do not think she should be criticized for having this line of thought. As I said, I think ultimately Allison’s practical advice was spot on, but saying she’d fire LW for even thinking that way was unnecessarily harsh and not taking into account the harm (even if unintentional) being done in a lot of communities right now.

    10. bighairnoheart*

      I really don’t think we have enough info to determine that for sure. I feel comfortable saying that Jane grates OP for completely understandable reasons that a lot of us sympathize with immensely, but that OP still needs to figure out how to deal with it in a productive way. That can be enough. We don’t have to decide that Jane is a good or bad person. And in fact, I don’t think it changes the advice at all even if we knew that for sure. Sometimes you have to manage non-great people if you’re going to be in a management position.

    11. Just Another Zebra*

      I’m probably a minority, but I think the party conversation is very normal, and very irrelevant. Look, I have friends from many different walks of life. If I’m hosting a party, they’re all getting invited – I’m not having 6 parties for each friend group. But that means there are varied interests / life things happening, too. My “mom friends” and I have different interests than my “car friends”, who have different interests than my “high school” friends. If a mom friend overhears a car friend’s convo with another car friend, that’s just… mingling.

      In any event, it’s irrelevant. This didn’t happen at work, nor at a work-sanctioned event. Not liking Jane’s friends’ conversation at a private party isn’t grounds to fire her.

    12. lost academic*

      I strongly believe in taking LWs at their word, but there should always be a conversation after someone is said to be “flaunting” anything because it’s so wildly loaded by the history and the subject at hand and even more heavily by the observer/commenter’s own history. Flaunting one’s chest, other physical attributes, etc are pretty common ones to hear, too. But taken with the rest of the letter, I am more of the opinion without further corroboration and detail that the person in question was likely existing while better off. I believe it’s absolutely possible there was flaunting, but there’s a wide middle ground between true flaunting and trying to hide any indication you have disposable income. The conversation I want to have with this LW includes many interjections of “why do you think that specifically?” for so many of the statements.

    13. Wow*

      It is wild to me that you think you can judge Jane as “not a great person” based on this letter. The resentment is off the charts.

  51. lifebeforecorona*

    LW I feel your pain and frustration and yes it is very misplaced. Jane is not personally responsible for what is happening in your town. She’s just an easy target to empty your anger and frustration on. Outsiders have done the same thing in the province that I want to retire in. Reading articles about people gloating about the great deals there are in traditionally economically depressed areas is bad for my blood pressure. However, I believe that everything turns on a wheel and things will correct themselves eventually, I hope.

  52. Not a Psychologist*

    Is it okay to gently suggest therapy to the OP? I know money is tight but there are clearly a lot of messy and painful emotions here which are threatening to spill over. To get to the point where you want to fire a good employee and even to get to the point where you write it all down and still don’t see how in the wrong you are is a pretty intense situation. A therapist could be really helpful in working through this stuff.

    1. June*

      Therapy or counseling (if you can afford it) is never a bad idea, but this LW does not want to fire Jane. She mentioned it as an exasperated vent at the end of a letter about how her life blew up during the pandemic, and she was asking for advice about how to better manage an employee through the resentment she feels. If she meant “I want to fire Jane” literally, she would have opened with it.

      Imagine being this misunderstood when you were just seeking advice after recognizing a problem (resentment) on your own?

      2. Burger Bob*

        It reads to me like she literally does want to fire Jane but just couldn’t think of a “good enough” reason to justify it. Because there isn’t one. But the second Jane slips up at all, it sounds like OP would happily put her on the chopping block.

    2. Willow Pillow*

      Suggesting therapy can be an issue because it’s not something many people can afford. I agree with you that it has so much potential to help – it’s made such a difference for me I think everyone would benefit from it! Having been able to do it is a huge privilege. There are a lot of stigmas to get past as well.

    2. skadhu*

      Yep. And the capitalist system is really, really good at setting the working and middle classes at each others’ throat so they don’t notice who is really raking it in and screwing them both over (albeit at different levels of severity and consequences). As is being beautifully demonstrated in this comments section.

  54. Kaye*

    One thing that helped me when I was living in a rich city* while being poor myself was to imagine that all these rich people and their shenanigans had been laid on for my entertainment. Champagne after church? Bring it on! We are going to a party at a four million pound house? Well, you don’t get to look around one of those every day. Having to listen to a monologue about a rich people problem? Live comedy! Enjoying the bits that I genuinely could enjoy, and seeing the funny side of the bits I couldn’t, kept me from getting too resentful. (And the day I impressed the Rich City mums with perfectly normal scones that I’d made with a tiny cutter and served with clotted cream and jam is still a proud memory.)

    * it had always been a rich city, so not quite comparable to OP’s situation, but this may help anyway!

    2. WestsideStory*

      I am also in a “rich city” and I take a similar approach – they are all different flowers in the garden to me. I learned early on when I moved here that pining for things I can’t buy could either make me miserable or stir me to change. Like OP owning a nice home is an impossible dream, even on two incomes, but I don’t think I would ever resent friends or co-workers who have more lavish lifestyles. That’s a dark path and OP is aware of it, hence the letter.

  55. Czhorat*

    Another thing for the LW to remember is that Jane might not be doing as well as she appears to be. She has a big, fancy house? Maybe she’s struggling under the weight of a huge mortgage and *needs* the bakery money to make ends meet. Maybe there are other issues she’s facing that you don’t know about. Maybe she has health concerns, maybe a lack of college savings for her kid or retirement money for herself.

    I totally understand that it’s hard to know that Mary down the block can’t afford her rent and is unemployed while rich-girl Jane is slumming at a bakery job she doesn’t seem to need. Even absent all the reasons that’s not how you should make decisions, we don’t *know* that she doesn’t need it. We just get one snapshot.

    1. Temperance*

      Jane is a good employee, though. Mary might “need” the income more, but she only wants to work 9 – 5 hours, so she’s not a good fit.

    1. bighairnoheart*

      Oh wow, thank you for linking this. I forgot all about it, but it’s very similar in a lot of ways to this story.

    2. Opal*

      Thank you for this. Jealousy is a monster that demands to be fed. It’s not healthy for the individual and end up devouring the rest of their life.

  57. Robin*

    Hi OP. I get the impression you know your desire to fire Jane is irrational, so I’m not interested in calling you a villain in the making or whatever. There’s a lot of (imo justified) resentment built up here against Jane and what she represents here; there was a lot of talk about people from cities (New York for my area) coming in during the pandemic to “work from home in new spaces” and absolutely ruining the housing market and general ecosystem. Add that to an already growing inflation and probable recession and it spells disaster for a lot of people. So I get the resentment, and I get that you want to be fair here.

    With that in mind, some things I would recommend:
    1. You don’t have to be friends with Jane. Actually, I would recommend not being friends with her! Be friendly at work, but do a slow fade with anything beyond work. I think that would help you see her as an employee first.
    2. Find a way to let the resentment out. Journal, find a weekly whine and wine group with friends, something, but find an outlet. And then, more importantly, do not let that resentment simmer and fester. Once you’ve released it, LET IT GO until the next time you’re scheduled for it.
    3. If there are ways to throw yourself into some sort of activity to remind you that your life is your own and is just as important, I think it would really help. Whether that be family time or something solo, something that is not connected to Jane at all will go a long way.

    I hope this helps. I get it, I would be resentful too, and the fact that you’re trying to move past the resentment and be a good manager is a sign of hope.

    4. Temperance*

      FWIW, I would be resentful, too. I don’t think a lot of folks here have firsthand experience with this kind of income inequality.

      1. Opal*

        I think more of us do than people expect. I grew up second hand clothes only, this property is condemned, poor. (We’ll skip the abuse part.) People look at my life now and presume I’ve only known living in a good home, having enough to each, and a loving family.

        What you see in this sliver of my life is not the total of my life experience. Looking at a snap shot of Jane’s life is not her total work experience or anything else. To make presumptions and dislike someone based on that one look is very shallow.

        1. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

          Thank you. I grew up in a rented crappy duplex in a sketchy neighborhood, my family did not have a car or any transport of their own, and my dad was an alcoholic factory worker who was resentful of everything, everyone and didn’t want to be a father in the first place. My life wasn’t as bad as some people’s, of course, but it sucked a lot up until I escaped to college when I was 18.

          I’m now 51, living a very nice, secure upper-middle class life with a great job, successful adult daughter and a happy nearly 30 year marriage. I like fine dining, traveling and designer clothes, even though I didn’t start doing/having any of that until I was in my 30’s. The number of people who think have always lived a charmed life by how I’m living now is always surprising to me.

        2. ok*

          LW didn’t necessarily make presumptions- she may very well have considered the fact that Jane hasn’t always been rich. But it doesn’t matter because Jane DID willingly move into a cheaper town AND said out loud that it’s so nice to be living so cheap with her big salary from her other job going such a long way. I would not say that out loud if I was working in a service job on a sabbatical!! Even at a house party in front of my coworker! That’s what rubs me the wrong way. It’s very tone deaf, especially if she *had* previously struggled. (So yeah, LW should not attend house parties for her sanity.) It’s possible you’re presuming that LW thinks Jane has always been rich? And either way, not everyone presumes that about the rich. And I think it’s not tit for tat to have struggled previously, when LW’s struggle is right now, during a pandemic, during a crazy economy, during soaring costs of living.

          1. Burger Bob*

            No. Jane did not say that. Jane’s friends said that, in front of people who are not their coworkers, and they have absolutely no idea what financial boat OP is in, and there’s not even any indication that they said it in any kind of flaunty way. Just the mere fact of them mentioning that it was nice that they can afford more there than they could where they used to be is what rubbed OP the wrong way. I get why OP is sensitive, but yeah, it doesn’t sound like it was actually a particularly big thing, and it doesn’t sound like Jane was the one who said it.

      2. Observer*

        Having grown up at the lower economic end of a community with a very wide range of income and asset, I can say that I do have that kind of experience.

        The thing that’s a problem is *not* that the OP is ticked off and resentful of the overall situation. I think that there is a lot of good reason for resentment of the overall situation.

        The problem is going from there to “I’m gritting my teeth” -> “She’s double dipping” -> “I will fire her if I can” (the way the OP phrases it makes it clear that this is not a scream into the void sentiment) -> “I can’t manage her because it’s unfair that she’s making more money than me”.

      3. Bess*

        Thaaaaat’s…a stretch. How can you know that based on what people post here? If this site skews toward white-collar work, it doesn’t mean the people in those jobs were always in white-collar jobs or always had secure jobs with benefits, that paid enough. I personally grew up around a huge swath of income differences, and I had very low-paying jobs from college to, say, mid-20s with little to no benefits. Part of the reason I have aimed for white-collar jobs, and have stayed in some otherwise terrible jobs, is because I never want to be that insecure again.

      4. WestsideStory*

        Speak for yourself…there’s plenty of us who have lived on mustard sandwiches and been housing insecure. Resentment is a bitter crust eaten on a bed of ashes. Understandable? Yes, but it helps no one.

  58. Stevesie*

    This is rough and I totally feel for OP. It’s obviously not Jane’s fault but it’s so much easier to put a face to all of the stresses you find yourself under. Why did SHE get hired/move here/get paid to do nothing. I’d also be glowing hot mad to hear Jane’s friends thoughtlessly chuckle about how far their money goes here while my family struggled (what an obnoxious conversation to be having at all). It’s extremely human to feel that way. But it definitely speaks more to what you need to address within yourself than anything to do with Jane. I agree with all of Allison’s advice here, but especially trying to take a step back and reframe your thinking here.

    Wishing you lots of luck OP.

  59. I was a Jealous Jill*

    LW, I experienced similar feelings for peers when I was in early-late 20s. I graduated college in 2008. The recession was in full force. I graduated with an incredibly basic degree. My husband and I were newlyweds and barely scraped by financially. I was friends with people 3-4 years older than me that graduated pre-recession. They had good jobs and were very financially secure. They had houses, nice cars, took amazing trips. I was SOOOO jealous for so many years. There were times despite my husband and I both working we couldn’t make rent. Our salaries were decent but after bills we basically had nothing. We ate a lot of ramen during those days!

    Eventually I realized that not everyone has the perfect life (despite what it looked like). Divorces starting happening, people lost jobs and suddenly weren’t so happy anymore. I realized I couldn’t compare myself to others and started to let go of those feelings. I began to be grateful for my good marriage, small house and easy, medium pay job.

    I guess what I am saying, is you don’t know what her life is like. She may have a nice house and make a ton of money. But at what cost? She could be burnt out and miserable. She doesn’t have kids…but what if she desperately wants them and can’t? What if her marriage isn’t healthy?

    Getting rid of her will not solve this and just make you look bad as a manager. You may not regret it now but you could years from now.

    1. I was a Jealous Jill*

      I will also add one more thing about being burnt out. It can take months to years to recover from being burnt out. Maybe she really, really loves baking and working here is helping her. I just left the tech industry. I was only in it for 1 year, that’s it. I was so burnt out after 6 months in, I considering walking out one day. I didn’t and ended up staying another 6 months. I am still recovering from it mentally. It was honestly awful. I will never go back to Tech again.

  60. Your Computer Guy*

    Whenever I start feeling overwhelmed like the OP, I try to look for that things in my own life that are making me unhappy. Many of them might be big and structural and something I can’t personally change, but I can always find something to target within my actual sphere of control. Maybe it’s cleaning out the garage, or fixing something, or purging my closet. But I usually feel better once I’ve blown off a little steam in a productive manner. When doing this I listen to music that makes me happy and I try very hard to not think about the things that stress me out.
    If I’m beset with jealousy, I try to turn my feelings outward into more positive action: charity, volunteer work, giving blood. Again, something to pull yourself outside of the spiral with a tangible, positive end result.

  61. Polar Vortex*

    LW,
    In life there’s always going to be people who have advantages. Those advantages can come in a variety of ways: education, financial, gender, race, area of the world you were born/raised in, familial support systems, neurotypicality, etc etc etc. And many of those people have advantages in several areas, which can feel terrible for those of us who don’t have those advantages. I’m well aware of the advantages I have had in life and well aware of what I’ve had to battle uphill against. It’s hard, it’s so very hard and tiring and painful. So I very much understand how much your anger is based in pain that is causing you to lash out. (And sometimes it’s so much harder when the person benefitting is Nice! And supportive, and a good person, because it makes it so much harder to hate that they have had those benefits.)

    You need to learn to hate the system and not the people (unless the people are using the system to screw over more people). I know a lot of people who have not had to go through the struggles I have had, and I’ve learned to be happy for them. Isn’t that what we want for all people? To have those advantages, to not have to worry about money or support or love or medical help? I’m framing it a bit this way because I’m a queer trans person who came from a small farming community in the middle of nowhere conservative area, and now live in a liberal city. The queer people I see who have always had love and support and educational and financial advantages – that is what I’ve fought for, was spit on for, was suicidal over. So I’ve long had to learn to hate the system and not the people. Because what those kids have had, the pain they’ve never had to feel, that’s what I want for everyone everywhere.

    And do I still feel jealous of those without bills hanging over their heads, who get to travel and live a life free of financial hardships? Yes. That’s natural. But I can still be happy for the individual. And we truly do not know what their disadvantages are. Terrible things can still happen to people who have financial advantages, and you can have financial advantages and many other disadvantages in life.

  62. Zennish*

    You’ll have customers this week who are one missed payment from homelessness, who have a terminal health issue, or a loved one in crisis who may not be here next week… should they resent you because you may have a different situation? You never know what anyone else is facing, including Jane.

    The reaction you’re having isn’t to Jane, but to your own frustrations and struggles, which you’re currently putting a “Jane” face on. The Jane in your head and the Jane in your Bakery are not the same person. For starters, one of them doesn’t exist.

    Focus on bettering your own situation. Be kind to yourself, be kind to Jane.

  63. Rebecca*

    LW, I get it. I frequently have to stop and recognize that what I am feeling is jealousy, and not something that someone else is doing wrong. There is a bit of freedom in admitting that, sometimes, and when I do, the people close to me get it, and they comiserate. “Nobody’s doing anything wrong, I’m just hella jealous.”

    But this thing about her getting paid ‘twice’ – no she’s not. She has two jobs, and being able to go on sabbatical is something that she earned at one of them. When I still worked in schools instead of working for myself, I frequently picked up extra tutoring gigs during the vacation – I wasn’t being paid ‘twice’ – I worked hard and put in long hours during term time, and the vacation was earned and part of my compensation. I had two jobs, and used the vacation from one to manage the other – but I earned both salaries equally. Nobody told me I shouldn’t be able to tutor during the vacation because I already had a salary from my school job.

    Jane’s sabbatical isn’t free money – it’s part of her compensation package at her other job, and whatever work she does there is valuable enough that her employer thinks it’s worthwhile and valuable compensation. For all we know she did 4 years worth of work in 3 years, working long hours and days to be able to take this sabbatical now. What she does during that sabbatical is nobody’s business, even if it involves earning more money.

    1. Rebecca*

      Adding this – you also have no idea what the compensation deal for that sabbatical is! The teachers in the school board I was in as a kid used to have a 4-over-5 program – 4 years of salary paid out over 5 years. You’d get 80% of your salary for 4 years, and the 20% was saved and paid to you in the 5th year so you’d end up with 80% of your salary that year, too. Then you could take a year off and have your job when you got back. A nice bit of organized saving, but no extra money.

      So whether it’s a program like that, or it’s part of the compensation package, or she traded working too hard for several years to earn this – it’s not paid twice for one set of work.

  64. Dinwar*

    “Jane is overqualified to be a cashier at a bakery, I didn’t hire her (the owner did and I wouldn’t have) but she has a masters degree, and her old job was a director in a tech company.”

    A lot of tech companies have gone under, and a lot of folks are looking for whatever work they can because of it. And denying someone work because they’ve got a Master’s degree has put a LOT of people I know into financial hardship. “You could easily find something better” is the excuse; the reality is, they can’t. If they could, they would; the mere fact that they’re applying for such jobs is stark evidence of what the job market looks like right now.

    That said, it doesn’t appear to be what’s going on here. So maybe this isn’t an issue.

    “She’s given me tips on how to manage people because this is my first time and I can’t help but wonder if she’s going to try to get my job.”

    This is a legitimate problem. On the one hand, she’s got experience that’s good to use. On the other, it’s super frustrating when an employee tries to manage for you, or tell you how to manage. Odds are she thinks this is a friendly bit of advice, and doesn’t see how it’s coming across. I deal with the same thing all the time–folks say “At my other jobsite we do things this way.” That’s great; that’ll get you arrested at my jobsite, so why don’t we do things the way I’m telling you to do them?

    I haven’t really found a good solution to this, other than listening politely, saying “This is how we do things here”, and being firm. Eventually people have come to respect my way of doing things, or at least to complain to each other and not to me. Alternatively, assign her some training duties. If she’s as good as you say, she can be a valuable resource. Even if she doesn’t want to train, simply having written policies and procedures can increase the quality of even the worst members of your staff significantly (and gives the best an opportunity to identify inefficiencies, improving your business).

    “And I found out that Jane is on a paid sabbatical from her old job, so she’s getting paid twice for working at my bakery.”

    Again, this could be an issue. I don’t know how the sabbatical works. I would assume that she’s okayed this with her boss–one of my rules is “Assume positive intent”.

    On the other hand, I’ve known professors who took jobs stocking shelves at Walmart (and turned down repeated offers for management positions) because they were so mentally burned-out during the summer semester that they simply couldn’t continue functioning at an intellectually-demanding job. They needed that change in order to rest that part of their brain, kind of like how body builders rotate different muscles to avoid damaging any.

    As for the house, I ran into a similar situation. Went to a party at the home of a coworker of my wife, and it was FAR better than ours. On the flip side, we take more trips and focus more on doing stuff; we’re not home nearly as much as they are, and our home is more than adequate to our needs. They were jealous of the trips we took and the activities the kids were in; we were jealous of the freaking palace they live in. So it was a wash.

    I say this as an example of the sort of mental exercise you can engage in to mitigate these spurts of jealousy. Those spurts are normal, and nature; we’re a species built on status signaling in a lot of ways! But “normal” and “natural” don’t necessarily translate to “appropriate for this situation” or even “good”. It’s important to know coping mechanisms for those times when such thoughts aren’t appropriate.

    As for how to manage her, first you have to ignore her personal life. Completely. It’s irrelevant. Second, you either need to shut down her advice-giving (which will cause resentment), or find a way to handle it without blowing up. I consider this sort of behavior part of the cost of dealing with certain people–they’re going to annoy me with their “advice” (half of which is wrong), but they offer other skills which are valuable enough to compensate. Every job has annoying bits, this is the annoying bit for managers.

    1. Meep*

      My former manager looked at anyone with a Bachelor’s or higher with scorn and labeled them as spoiled. I mean I certainly am and have 0 student debt, but it really negates my coworkers who have $60-$250k worth of debt getting their degrees. It is a weird mindset I have noticed from people who left part way through their degree program and never returned.

  65. Michelle Smith*

    I want to acknowledge that I understand your resentment. I really do. I am 35 and unmarried and my lack of a second income from a partner means I will probably never be able to afford a home of my own in my neighborhood. The place I rent has a mold problem, my bathroom sink hasn’t worked in several years, I have to run the AC (which I bought, no central anything here) year round because of how hot the radiator is (not adjustable, so it routinely is over 80 degrees inside in the winter), and a couple weeks ago a cabinet door just came off in my hand. This is not the first time that’s happened. So really, truly, I get being jealous of someone else’s superior living conditions and lack of struggle. And I most likely make more than you do, so I’m extrapolating to a situation I assume is considerably worse for you than for me.

    All that being said, Alison is completely right. My suggestion would be to do the same thing I have to do to help combat my negative self-talk about myself. Redirection is important. When you have the thought “I hate this person because she doesn’t need this income like I do” pause and tell yourself a different thought right there in that moment. So it goes like, “I hate wealthy Jane.” Pause. “No I don’t. Jane is a nice person. My material conditions are a result of bad socioeconomic policy, not Jane.” And you do this kind of mental redirection every single time you have those mean thoughts. If you’re at home by yourself, it can be helpful to even say them out loud. You can’t stop yourself from having mean thoughts necessarily. Thoughts are things that happen to us. But you can deal with them in a more healthy way if you constantly remind yourself of the good things about Jane. Over time, you’re retraining your brain to think positively about Jane.

  66. Baron*

    OP, I send kindness.

    I’m drawn to the “it’s not fair” closing. I don’t want to go to the “life isn’t fair” place, but I do want to ask: who, here, do you think owes you fairness? From whom should the fairness be distributed? Do you think your boss should be paying you more income than Jane is receiving in total? Do you think Jane should be giving you money? Do you think Jane’s boss at her other job should be paying you? Who is treating you unfairly here?

    I’ve lived in real poverty, and I have serious disability circumstances (the kind of thing they have telethons for), and I’m queer. Every person I’ve ever managed, just about, has been in some way more privileged in life than me. It hurts sometimes. I know that (irrational) feeling of “I’m the boss, so that means I outrank you, so that means I’m better than you, so why do you have good things that I don’t have?” But the thing I’ve had to learn is…that’s not what being someone’s boss means, at all. Not at all. We’re so inundated with these messages that powerful people must have their jobs because they’re better than their employees, and therefore entitled to more, and of course that’s going to seep into your feelings. It’s an inescapable message. But, nope.

  67. Former Retail Lifer*

    OP, you said the quiet part out loud but I get it. I’m pretty sure I’d feel exactly the same way. I’m glad you asked for advice and didn’t act on it. If this were me, I’d keep work life completely separate and not hang out with her outside of work. It’s only going to remind you of your resentment when you’re at her mansion with her wealthy friends. That can’t be enjoyable. She’s a great employee and she takes the shifts no one else wants. She’s doing what she was hired for and, even though it’s not easy, that’s all you should focus on. It’s easier said than done, of course.

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      This is good advice. OP doesn’t have to be friends with Jane, just a basic amount of nice. Because yeah, I fully get the frustration about income inequality, the fact that in many places home ownership is treated as a way to generate wealth rather than seeing housing as a human right, and how the choices that people make affect the larger forces that Alison pointed out. I am definitely not benefitting from any of that, either, and it sucks.

  68. Meep*

    As someone who has been Jane, let me tell you what happened to someone in your position.

    A little backstory is she dropped out of high school at 17, moved in with her much older boyfriend, and did data entry. She eventually married a West Point grad for the lifestyle she thought he would offer her when she was 31 years old. She spent the entire 22-year marriage resentful that he wasn’t providing the lavished lifestyle she wanted which included visits to Margo Largo. Now this is obviously extreme and I have no doubt your husband and you have a marriage built on love, but she didn’t focus on her accomplishments and instead focused on what everyone else had just like you.

    She ignored the fact she managed to run her own successful consulting business because she had to get her GED and drop out of college. Instead, she was resentful of those who did complete their degree and insist they were entitled for it. She ignored the fact she ended up as VP of Business Development at a small start-up because of her skill. Instead, she was resentful of the jobs she was rightfully fired from. So much so she ended up getting fired because she had ended up wrongfully terminating and stealing wages from college graduates because they had what she didn’t have. A college degree. It didn’t matter she had what it takes and was proving it by being successful without a degree.

    Ultimately, she lost two houses in five years, divorced, lost a millionaire boyfriend (she was really proud of that!), became estranged from her daughter, and was fired from a job that paid her very, very well and had great benefits.

    I know it is hard, but focus on the good in your life. Not the good everyone else has that you don’t. Else you will end up a 60-year-old curmudgeon with no one in your life.

    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      The sad part is how many of those degreed graduates would have traded their debt and piece of paper for her job experience in a heartbeat.

      1. Meep*

        Honestly, that is a good point. Everyone is jealous of everyone else. Jane sees things in OP she is jealous of.

  69. Turingtested*

    I was a food service manager for years and worked with hundreds of people. Inevitably there were some who rubbed me the wrong way and a handful I just hated.

    I treated them like problem customers, that is, I was impeccably polite and strove to be fair.

    I either got over it as I got to know the person or realized there was something lacking in their performance.

  70. CharlieBrown*

    There is a LOT about Jane that you don’t know. Her situation may not be as rosy as it seems to you.

  71. bamcheeks*

    I think it’s interesting just how unacceptable it is to be angry about wealth inequality, even though it’s one of the main ways in which every other type of inequality and structural violence is enacted. Jane benefits from wealth, and LW is one of the people impacted by that inequality. We don’t know what the real effects are on LW, but it’s not unusual for it to be things like family being forced to move away, giving up opportunities, people stuck in housing which actively damaging to theirs or their kids’ health. But you’re not allowed to be actively angry about that, you’ve got to be the bigger person. As if it was only ever a trivial difference like someone getting a slightly bigger piece of birthday cake.

    And of course, as a manager she does! But as a person, she absolutely gets to be fckin furious about it.

    1. CharlieBrown*

      As Alison pointed out, it’s okay to feel your feelings.

      It’s how you act on them that you have control over and should be held accountable for. LW wants to fire a perfectly good employee because of how she feels about her. Nope to the nth power.

    2. L-squared*

      If the question was something like “I’m jealous of my rich coworker, am I a jerk for not wanting to hang out with her socially?” I’d say absolutely not.

      But this is beyond that. This is a manager wanting to punish a good employee by firing them, for doing nothing except existing.

      Also, I think being furious at your own situation and being furious at someone personally is totally different.

    3. Decidedly Me*

      No one has said you can’t be angry about wealth inequality. Of course you can be! However, Jane is not the problem and doesn’t deserve that anger.

      1. bamcheeks*

        Lots of people actually are saying that! They’re saying that being angry about people discussing a CoL differential which might be having a truly horrible impact on your family and friends is being way too sensitive and policing normal financial chitchat.

        1. Not Totally Subclinical*

          It would have been completely acceptable for LW to speak up in the moment and say “um, you realize that this CoL difference that’s great for you is wreaking havoc on those of us who were already here?” And it’s totally okay to be angry about it after the fact.

          But being angry about it and then deciding that the best response is to fire an excellent employee who’s taking the shifts other folks don’t want?

          1. bamcheeks*

            If she had actually fired Jane, I would completely agree that she was wrong. But since we’re unanimously agreed that she doesn’t have the right to enact any “consequences” on Jane at work, the only thing at stake is whether she’s allowed to be mad at Jane and her friends.

            1. Justice*

              She wrote in to get permission to fire Jane.
              She says that’s what she wants to do, but she can’t think of a reason why.
              That’s literally what’s at stake.

              1. bamcheeks*

                Right, and unless I’ve missed one, literally everyone agrees she can’t do that. So there’s either 800 comments agreeing about that very strongly, or that’s not what the discussion is about.

    4. Zennish*

      It’s completely acceptable to be angry about wealth inequality. It’s just inappropriate to be angry at Jane because you’re angry about wealth inequality.

      1. bamcheeks*

        I don’t think it is. I don’t think anger at wage inequality has to be aimed at abstract forces rather than the people sat on front of you.

        It would be wrong to *act* on that anger, especially in the dimension where LW does actually have power over Jane. But you are allowed to be angry at people who embody the real inequality you’re living with.

        1. Colette*

          Should people who grow up in a small town be allowed to move to a big city? Or is it only movement the other way that’s a problem?

          If you move from a city to a smaller place, should you be obligated to only find a place to live that is at the same level as what you had in the city? In other words, if you live in a 1 bedroom apartment in the city, should you only be able to live in a 1-bedroom or smaller place in a smaller location?

          Or are you saying that no one should ever be able to change locations?

          The problem is not the individual choices people make about their own living situations; the problem is large companies buying up all available real estate, politicians fighting minimum wage increases, and housing being taken off the market for things like airBnB.

          1. bamcheeks*

            Literally nobody is saying it should/shouldn’t be allowed. Literally nobody is saying that LW has the right to treat her badly at work.

            So the only thing at stake is whether LE and other people in her community are allowed to be mad at Jane and her cohort. Jane and her cohort will remain rich and benefit from the housing price disparity whatever LW and her community think. They will suffer no other consequence than some people not thinking nice things about them.

            1. Colette*

              Of course people can be angry at them, but those people are out of line, because Jane & co. are just living their lives and have done nothing wrong. Jane, in particular, is working a shift no one else wants at a local business and doing it well. Why should someone be angry with her?

              Should Jane be mad at the OP because the OP has a child and Jane does not? O

              1. bamcheeks*

                My point is that it wouldn’t harm LW one jot if she was. Nobody needs the approval of everyone in the world.

                1. Colette*

                  I disagree, I think being irrationally angry at people for living their life does harm you – it makes you an angry, bitter person.

                2. bamcheeks*

                  Other way around— I mean it wouldn’t *harm* LW if Jane was angry at her because she wanted to have a child, in the same way I don’t think it harms Jane if LW is mad at her for being wealthy. It might be harmful to the angry person, or it might be motivating and validating, that depends entirely on the individual! But as the object of that anger, you can figure out if there’s anything you need to feel guilty about, and if there isn’t, you can let it go.

                3. Meep*

                  Agreeing with Colette. I have seen first hand the damage it can do to YOUR life if you let your anger and jealousy fester. It isn’t pretty.

          2. Shenandoah*

            Yep, and people from other nations buying property, too, too. I hail from Miami, and the real estate market there is so astronomically costly because (mostly) wealthy South Americans are buying all the land, which sets a very high market rate.

            And that has nothing to do with Jane.

        2. Observer*

          I don’t think anger at wage inequality has to be aimed at abstract forces rather than the people sat on front of you.

          If the people in front of you have not done anything wrong, then it IS wrong, and also totally self defeating.

          Based on what the OP is describing, there is simply no reason to think that Jane has done anything unethical or manipulated the system in ways she should realize would have negative effects on the surrounding community.

          1. Zennish*

            It’s also counterproductive. It isn’t by chance that people making $25,000 a year tend to think the threat is people making $125,000 a year, and vice versa. It’s intentionally created divisiveness to insulate those making $1,000,000,000 a year from a united 99%.

            The forces aren’t abstract, they’re very real politicians, corporations, billionaires and media empires maintaining a status quo they benefit from.

            But I digress.

            1. bamcheeks*

              I don’t disagree, but I don’t think it’s on the the people on £25K to care more about the feelings of the people on £125k than vice versa. Like that’s what it comes down to to me— if you’re on $125k, you deal with the fact that you’re well rich to anyone on $25k, and that you have options that they’ll never have and that you’re purchasing power probably directly affects their standard of living because you can outspend them on every necessity. You extend the solidarity in any way you can, you don’t demand the $25k people fall into line and recognise your inherent goodness.

              (I speak as a ~$125k household, give or take an exchange rate.)

          2. bamcheeks*

            I think whether it’s self-defeating is for LW to decide. For some people anger is a detrimental, for others it’s strengthening and motivating. That’s between LW and her conscience as long as it’s not directly impacting Jane.

            But I don’t think it has to be objectively justified by Jane having done something wrong. Everyone is unanimous that LW has no right to enforce any kind of punishment, so literally the only thing at stake here is whether an template wealthy person’a feelings would be hurt by knowing there are people in the world who resent them for their wealth. And I think that idea— that wealthy/wealthier people have to be protected from the knowledge that their economic impact as wealthy people might harm others and that other people might consequently resent them— is a real political harm. I think solidarity starts from accepting your privilege and that some people might resent it, and letting it go. And I think it’s on the everyone with privilege to do that.

            1. Observer*

              Please. Sure, the OP gets to decide if they allow their anger to eat at them, instead of trying to see what can be done about it.

              But the bottom line is that it IS wrong to displace your anger, even justified anger on people who haven’t actually done anything wrong.

              1. bamcheeks*

                Well, that’s a question of personal morality on which we disagree. I don’t think it’s wrong at all.

            2. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

              I have been cheering you on through this whole thread, bamcheeks (like all 1000 comments). Thanks for articulating this with clarity, nuance, commitment and compassion, I am in awe.

    5. Observer*

      I think it’s interesting just how unacceptable it is to be angry about wealth inequality,

      That line says that you are reacting to something in your head, not what people have written.

  72. Laure001*

    I am fascinated by how divisive this topic is! Comments are really going both ways. This is so interesting to read.

    1. L-squared*

      I think the difference is, while I can understand OP being mad at the situation, I think that actually wanting to fire someone over her own jealousy is WAY out of bounds.

      Others seem to be totally fine with that line of thought because they find her sympathetic.

      1. bamcheeks*

        I don’t think it is that. I haven’t seen anyone say that LW would be justified in exercising her power as a manager to punish Jane. I just think characterising wealth differentials as simple “jealousy”— literally one of the deadly sins!— is a way of trivialising and stigmatising the incredibly real hardship that gentrification and inequality causes.

    2. Temperance*

      I think it’s because, frankly, most of us here are more likely to be in Jane’s shoes than OP’s. It’s really easy to take a stand against income inequality and gentrification and other poverty issues when they’re not your actual life.

      And sure, we all know that Jane the individual human woman didn’t make this happen on her own and the broader social issue isn’t her fault, but individual actions and choices matter.

      1. bamcheeks*

        I think there is a really interesting psychological thing where people who have privilege cannot bear the idea of knowing that anyone thinks negative things about them because of their privilege. Like all the people who want to be able to talk about how we shouldn’t have equal marriage, but they’re not BIGOTS, it’s just their BELIEFS. It’s a real cake-and-eat-it mentality— I want my STUFF, I want my WEALTH, but I also need everyone to think that I’m a good person and it’s not fair if anyone is angry that I have this stuff, either on a personal or a

        And like, why do you give a shit? You’re rich! Enjoy your nice house, try not to be an asshole, and if someone is mad because your big city salary is screwing up the housing market and their sister is consequently stuck in her awful relationship with that asshole, let them be mad! If you’re square with yourself, you can just let that go.

        This is obviously a really weird twist because LW does have a form of structural power over Jane, and they have to be incredibly careful to separate their emotional reaction to Jane and her cohort of wealthy people and their role as her manager. But as long as they can do that, they aren’t obliged to think nice thoughts about everyone.

        1. Justice*

          Oh for pity’s sake.
          No one (including Jane, I daresay) gives a darn whether the LW likes Jane, or thinks nice thoughts about her and her bougie friends.
          The LW wants to express her seething resentment in her capacity AS A MANAGER to punish Jane for the sins of late-stage capitalism.
          How can you defend that for a second?

          1. Snorks*

            That LW *wants* to express her seething resentment in her capacity as a manager, I can defend that.

            There’s a difference between wanting to do something and doing it.

          2. bamcheeks*

            I mean, there’s like 800 comments, so I might have missed one, but I don’t think there’s a single person arguing that LW gets to exercise her power as a manager to punish Jane. It’s absolutely unanimous she doesn’t get to do that. What most of the comments are about is whether it’s unfair and wrong to be mad at Jane because she hasn’t done anything wrong, OK to be mad at Jane because she has done something wrong, or OK to be mad at Jane even if she hasn’t personally done anything wrong because her wealth and that of her cohort is gentrifying LW’s town.

            1. Justice*

              YOU are saying that LW gets to be mad at Jane.
              You’re saying that since Jane is a mean ol’ gentrifier that LW’s feelings of resentment are justified and that she should sit there and seethe and as long as she doesn’t literally fire Jane, her attitude is 100% fine. As if we haven’t read a hundred letters here about bad bosses that take personal feelings out on their employees. You’re saying here that it’s okey-dokey, as long as it’s based on the “right” social priorities and the LW is just giving some richies their just desserts.
              What I’m trying to say is that AS A MANAGER, it’s not OK to do that. Part of your job is to set that kind of thing aside and deal with the employee as an employee and the job they’re doing.

              1. bamcheeks*

                I completely agree with you that, as a manager, LW needs to get hold of her feelings and make sure she’s scrupulously fair to Jane at work. When I said, “not exercise her power to punish Jane”, I mean she couldn’t do any of those smaller slights or digs or anything else in her power as a manager, not that doing was those things was just fine as long as she stopped short of firing her.

                I am not characterising Jane as “a mean ol’ gentrifier”. The thing about gentrification is that it doesn’t need gentrifiers to be mean, nice or otherwise: it’s an economic phenomenon.

                And LW gets to have feelings about that economic phenomenon, and Jane as a beneficiary of that phenomenon, which are entirely separate from Jane’s moral goodness or otherwise. As long as she’s fair to Jane at work and can separate those feelings from her actions, she can be as angry as she likes. It doesn’t affect Jane.

        2. Solidarity, OP*

          @bamcheeks while we don’t know from the LW if this is Jane’s attitude, I think you have put your finger directly on the source of some of the defensiveness in these comments. People don’t want to acknowledge that their enjoyment of their wealth and privilege might have negative implications for others, and so when they become aware of (valid, natural!) feelings of resentment toward them, they get extremely uncomfortable. Appreciate your perspective in this discussion and agree 100%.

            1. Solidarity, OP*

              I don’t think I understand the intent behind your question. I also think you’re misunderstanding my above statement. OP is enjoying the privilege of a paid sabbatical by working in the bakery. Her wealth enabled her to buy a beautiful, newly constructed home she wouldn’t be able to afford on her wages from that job (which OP makes, and OP can’t afford to buy a home in the area at all, let alone a comparable one). Finally, Jane is contributing to the problem of gentrification increasing the cost of living in the town where she now resides, and making life more difficult for people in the community she has just joined. And based on the behavior described at her Christmas party, she seems to be running with a crowd that is extremely tone deaf to all of this.

              I’m not saying Jane needs to perform acknowledgement of her wealth and privilege. I’m saying it’s perfectly rational for OP to resent her based on the above. Jane should understand and accept that, and expect nothing beyond a cordial professional relationship from OP.

      2. Meep*

        I am kind of on the fence on chucking it up so simply. I think a fair bit of us are more likely in Jane’s shoes than OP’s, sure. But I also see a bunch of people (such as bamcheeks) defending OP to the death. Not for her feelings, but because gentrification and wealth inequality is horrible. They are either in OP’s shoes or (as I suspect) altruistic and self-righteous while fighting for the little man.

        Yes, there are problems. Yes, it would be nice if the Janes of the world used their influence to help. But honestly, as a Jane, I am tired of trying to help people who literally shoot themselves in the foot every chance they get by voting conservatively. Because let’s be real, if we are going to address gentrification and wealth inequality, it is those in poverty that often vote against their best interests.

        1. Solidarity, OP*

          Respectfully, that sounds like an overgeneralization. Are you sure? It looks like in the last couple of U.S. presidential elections, more voters in lower income groups supported the liberal candidate, not the conservative one (source: businessinsider.com/2016-2020-electoral-maps-exit-polls-compared-2020-11). I realize the dynamic may be a little different in your community.

          Either way, I’ll point out (gently) that “I am tired of trying to help people who literally shoot themselves in the foot every chance they get” is a pretty textbook example of an attitude that breeds resentment toward the wealthy.

      3. Eyes Kiwami*

        I agree. I think there is a strong bias and fragility. You can see it when bamcheeks and others argue basically ACAB, all rich people (“rich” being a relative term) are responsible for their gentrification.

        I think people whose knee-jerk response is “so you’re saying I can’t move to a cheaper city??”: You identify with Jane, rather than OP, so you know where you stand in your local class divide. If you can’t handle people being resentful and have to reach for things like “well I used to be poor” or “but I’m a nice person”, you’re still part of the problem. Society is made up of individuals and Jane’s move is one drop in the river of gentrification.

        Another avenue for self reflection: If you agree with statements like “all men are Schrodinger’s Rapist” or “all white people are racist because we are educated in a racist society and must actively work to be anti-racist”, but you disagree with “rich people should work to undermine their own gentrifying actions”, why is that?

        1. Lavender*

          I think it’s a question of if/to what extent it’s okay to dwell on those feelings when you’re in a work setting. When you’re managing an employee you actively resent, those feelings can manifest in ways you might not even fully realize. For example, you might end up with a subconscious bias when approving vacation time or scheduling less-preferred shifts, or your employee might get discouraged if they notice you’re being friendlier with their colleagues than you are with them. (We don’t know whether or not OP is behaving this way, but we do know that they have very strong feelings that *could* easily lead to subconscious bias.) And I think it’s fair to say that they really need to compartmentalize those feelings when they’re working and be extremely mindful of how they’re interacting with Jane. That doesn’t mean they’re wrong for feeling the way they do, but in a work setting it’s really important to consider how those feelings may be impacting others.

          And all of that aside, it seems like Jane’s presence in the workplace is just making OP really unhappy. Nobody should have to spend their whole work day feeling jealous and resentful, but there’s also not really anything they could reasonably ask Jane to do differently. Again, sometimes the answer is to learn to compartmentalize.

          1. Solidarity, OP*

            @Lavender Well said. OP’s feelings are valid, but professional ethics dictate that she absolutely cannot act on them at work. I agree that learning to compartmentalize (which might be really difficult!) until Jane leaves at the end of her sabbatical is probably the most practical way to manage the situation. And I agree with other commenters who have suggested establishing some boundaries and keeping a safe distance outside of work-related interactions. Which will probably also be hard, since OP stated in the letter that she likes Jane as a person. This is all really hard, and it sucks!

  73. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

    I totally get why the situation is hard for you. And I totally sympathize with how frustrating it is for long-time residents of a community to get pushed out when more affluent people decide to move in and everything gets too expensive. This is personal to you, OP, so I understand how some resentment has built up.

    But, like Alison said, you absolutely cannot fire her over any of this. At *most*, you could gently tell Jane that some of the things she says/does are not being received as she probably hopes and that she might be better served by being a bit more sensitive. But you can only do this if you think you can have a positive conversation with Jane in the spirit of helping her. If not, your resentment is going to show through (more than it probably already is).

    Are you able to talk to the owner about wages and cost of living? Have you gotten reasonable raises during your time with the company? I suspect margins are pretty tight with what sounds like an independent bakery, so I’m not sure what you might be able to negotiate. But it sounds like this is your bigger problem – your pay has not kept pace with costs of living – and Jane is a convenient target for that frustration. Particularly if you don’t think you’ll be able to get any additional pay at your job.

  74. Cat Lover*

    “But we went to her house over Christmas for a party, and it’s a beautiful new build in an area in town that we could never afford, and her friends (also people who moved from the mainland to our small city) were talking about how much their bigger-city salaries stretch here.”

    Yeah, OP is a better person than me (I would’ve blown a gasket) and Jane’s friends are assholes :) People are getting squeezed out by gentrification and inflation and OP you aren’t wrong for your feelings!!

    You cannot, however, take it out on Jane. She personally hasn’t done anything wrong. You don’t have to be buddy-buddy with her but you have to work with her and I would use her knowledge as a tech exec and learn from her!

    1. Justin D*

      Yeah she should take advantage of the situation the best that she can. Glean knowledge and experience from her.

    2. The Person from the Resume*

      Her friends (also people who moved from the mainland to our small city) were talking about how much their bigger-city salaries stretch here WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO MOVED FROM THE MAINLAND. People were talking about what people talk about when making small talk and appreciating the windfall of their own lives. No one doing at the the LW.

      If Jane is not an asshole, her friends are not assholes. They all took advantage of same economic situation.

      It’s very frustrating being in a gentrifying city and seeing the people who work in the city being priced out, but you cannot blame a single person. It’s society, capitalism, not just the people that annoy you.

      1. Cat Lover*

        “If Jane is not an asshole, her friends are not assholes. They all took advantage of same economic situation.”

        This isn’t the argument you think it is.

      2. Lavender*

        I think it depends a lot on how that conversation actually went down. It could be that they didn’t realize OP was Jane’s boss, or that there was that much of an income disparity. If they did know, I agree that it was probably tactless to bring up that topic of conversation—but even then, it might not be in some contexts. There’s a big difference between “It’s so much cheaper here that I can afford a Mercedes and a vacation home!” and “It’s so much easier to shop for groceries here, the prices are much more reasonable than they are in the city.”

      3. FashionablyEvil*

        They’re not assholes. You’re attributing malice to their comments when there is none in evidence.

    4. Dinwar*

      “Yeah, OP is a better person than me (I would’ve blown a gasket) and Jane’s friends are assholes”

      Really? Folks who experience lower costs of living aren’t allowed to discuss this? I mean, it’s a pretty typical topic of conversation, especially among people who have moved recently or frequently–you never realize how much difference there really is between different situations until you experience it. It’s a shared experience, the sort of thing that people discuss without any ill will.

      At that party I mentioned the topic of differences in cost of living came up in a conversation. If someone had blown a gasket because two of us had the audacity to mention that CA had a higher cost of living than the South does, that person would have been the rude one and would have been treated as such.

      You don’t get to dictate what other people talk about at parties. If you don’t like the sort of people at that party you are under no obligation to associate with them again; that’s a fundamental human right in my opinion. But folks are allowed to discuss shared experiences in a social setting without your permission.

      1. Cat Lover*

        It’s not exactly a secret that many, many places across the US (and world) are being priced out by people like this. Saying stuff like what the OP described is oblivious at best and mean at worst. Sorry!

    5. Solidarity, OP*

      @Cat Lover, well said. +1

      Here’s why I’m inclined to see Jane as an asshole: by way of working closely with OP, Jane presumably has some understanding of OP’s lifestyle and financial circumstances. Jane almost surely knows OP is a local and as such has been affected by the influx of wealthier new residents driving up costs–people with highly paid tech jobs aren’t ignorant to the concept and implications of gentrification (and if Jane somehow is, holy oblivious privilege, Batman!). So to invite OP to a party full of transplants, and then participate in/enable conversations around how far all their extra money goes out here in Cheaplandia is insensitive at best.

      Silver lining: I know people who have taken sabbaticals, and my understanding is that you are obligated to go back to your job at the end, at least temporarily. So I don’t think OP needs to worry about Jane taking her job, and she probably only has to work with Jane until the sabbatical is up. Beyond that, as others have suggested, establishing some boundaries and steering clear of social gatherings with oblivious rich people who make her feel like a peasant is probably the way to go.

      OP, if you read this far down in the comments, I’m sorry you’re in this situation and I’m sorry Alison and the commentariat raked you over the coals for being honest and vulnerable on the internet.

      1. Parakeet*

        People who just want to vent should do it to their friends and not public advice columns.

        Also, I have been resisting saying this while reading 800+ comments, but often when people move into lower cost-of-living areas it’s because they themselves got gentrified out of higher cost-of-living ones. The people at the root of the gentrification are not the people who own one house that is the house they live in. They’re not the ones buying up a bunch of real estate that they don’t even occupy as a place to store their extra money. I get that it’s a bit of a cop-out to say “you should be mad at capitalism, not people” because there’s not much point in being mad at an abstraction, but it makes more sense to be mad at the actual capitalist class.

        1. Lavender*

          Yeah, exactly. My parents were recently priced out of the neighborhood they’d lived in for 25 years and it wasn’t because of people buying or renting single-family homes. A huge percentage of houses in their neighborhood are unoccupied investment properties or Airbnbs, which was not the case when they moved in. Housing costs go up when people buy houses that they don’t intend to live in.

  75. Justin D*

    As a manager, having a good employee benefits you directly. Just keep that in mind. And there is a labor shortage so she’s not taking a job from someone who really needs it. But as a person you are absolutely entitled to hate her for being rich.

    1. Lily Potter*

      So many service-oriented places are desperate for any warm body that they can find to staff their counters. Jane sounds like an absolute prize of an employee. OP should be grateful to have her.

      OP, think of it this way. Would you rather have Jane at your counter, being pleasant and helpful? Or be spending YOUR personal time off filling in those hard-to-fill early and late shifts yourself, because you can’t find anyone else willing to do it?

  76. Sparkles McFadden*

    I feel for you LW, I really do, but this is your issue all the way. There will always be someone better off, more fortunate or more talented. Firing someone who is good at her job, extremely helpful as an employee, and pleasant to all around will not make the world a fair place, and it will leave you worse off in every way possible. The saying “comparison is the thief of joy” really is true,

    Also, trying to fire this person or even giving her a hard time in the hopes that she’ll quit will blow up in your face. Anytime I’ve seen a manager go after a good direct report in this way, it was the manager who got let go. The owner hired this person so even suggesting firing her would change the owner’s opinion of you, and not in a good way.

  77. Loch Lomond*

    “What you’re proposing would make you the villain of this story…” – what’s more, it would make you the villain of a story that doesn’t need one! Everything is fine! You have a great employee! Let things be fine!

  78. Seriously?*

    Jane isn’t get paid twice to work at the bakery. She is getting the fair wage paid there. She told the boss she was on sabbatical, which she is. The OP needs to get therapy.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, when I saw the headline I thought it was about a manager making less than her employee (which does happen sometimes, especially if you manage individual contributors with niche in-demand skills) – but you pay Jane what you pay everyone, and I’m guessing it’s probably not that much. She’s not making more at the job she does for you. What other money an employee has – from their wealthier spouse, from another job, from inherited money – is not part of the equation here.

  79. chs.29*

    LW, I think it’s important that you recognize that any resentful or jealous behaviors toward Jane, no matter how small, can have real impacts on her. I truly feel for your situation, but I’ve also been on Jane’s side of it. One of my managers early in my career had lost a national award to me, even though I was significantly younger and had less years in the field, and then I was elected to a board shortly before she lost a board election. She was always kind and fair to the other employees, but she treated me TERRIBLY and it was so, so obvious. She directly took credit for my work, right in front of me, knowing I was too polite to say anything. Any small issue was blown up into a huge problem. She was constantly cold, fake-nice, and even patronizing in our interactions. Let me tell you, it took a horrible toll on my mental health. I went from loving my work to absolutely hating it. I dreaded seeing her every day. I would immediately tense up every time she came in the room. I have a chronic health issue that is worsened by stress, so I was physically ill as well.
    While I completely understand that you are dealing with your own challenges, please be aware that your resentment has power to truly hurt Jane and others.

  80. Colorado*

    My mom is/was a tough love kinda person and I’m going to channel her here. I get it, oh, do I get it but.. Life isn’t fair and the sooner you get used to that idea, the better off you’re going to be. You don’t know what goes on in Jane’s life. Yeah, sounds like she’s built a career for herself if she’s on sabbatical and enjoying probably for her a lower stress job in the meantime. Maybe she needs that sabbatical because she can’t have children she wants, or is fighting cancer, or had a breakdown in her career, or, or, or. You just don’t know. Comparison is the thief of joy. Find your joy. And who knows, this could turn into a really nice friendship down the road. Seems like you do like her as a person and are of similar age/ life stages.

  81. KP*

    Of course, the OP’s feelings are valid, and they’re allowed to feel them.

    But some of you all seem to think that gives her free license to be cruel to Jane. It doesn’t. Feeling crappy doesn’t mean you get to be crappy to other people.

    This, right here? “I want to fire her but I have no good reason, because she’s good at her job and having someone work the early morning and late nights is hard.”

    The OP has admitted they would have fired Jane if it wouldn’t make their life harder. They aren’t the villain of the story YET because it’s inconvenient to be one.

  82. Irish Teacher*

    I think somebody above gave good advice when they said something about whether you’d want every aspect of somebody’s life, including losing your own family, etc.

    I think it might help if you kept in mind that there is probably much you don’t know about Jane’s life and while, sure, she may have more money than you, she may well have other problems you don’t know about – family crises, illness, anything. Perhaps she would like to have a child as you do. And perhaps she wouldn’t. But what I am saying is that you are resenting her based on one fact – that she has money. And perhaps also the fact that she can take a paid sabbatical and work elsewhere during it. But those aren’t everything about her life.

    I mean, obviously, even if she had a great life all round, it still wouldn’t be a reason to dislike her. Some people have more luck than others. It’s not fair, but it’s not Jane’s fault. She didn’t create the world we live in. But…you don’t even really know she has a better life than you. All you know is that she appears to have more money than you and while that is significant, well, for all you know, there may be things about your life that she is jealous of.

    And also, think of it the other way. Imagine if somebody resented you for getting to be a manager when you have a husband who works as well and they think it really unfair that their husband or wife is unemployed and they are only an entry level employee. In their mind, they might need a manager’s role more than you, given that they have to provide for their whole family on their income. Perhaps it’s not quite the same, but what I am saying is that there will always be people who are doing better than you and people who are not doing as well and I doubt you would like people in the latter group to wish that you could be fired.

    And I really doubt Jane is looking for your job. She’s on a sabbatical and she has told the owner that, so presumably she is letting the owner know this job is likely to be a temporary thing for her. If she wanted a promotion, I doubt she would be giving the owner the impression she might leave relatively soon.

  83. Emily*

    You 100% never have to go to her house again, though. Like, that is a boundary you can set that doesn’t make you a bad person. You can just politely decline. You can make up a reason. You can say you’ve been thinking about it and you don’t want to socialize with people you manage. (If you’re going to follow the same rule with other employees.) And in general, if this was moving into friendship territory, you can pull back without it being rude. Like, control the bits you can control.

    1. virago*

      I would 100% set that boundary, because of the tenor of the conversation at Jane’s Christmas party: where Jane’s friends said it was so great living in the area where LW has lived all her life because it is cheap — to them– and the money they have goes further.

      Even though there’s no evidence from the post that Jane took part in this conversation, the tone of it is going to make it harder for LW to do what she needs to do as Jane’s manager: be professional with and respectful to Jane and not dwell on her feelings of resentment.

      (With which I can empathize, believe me. I haven’t had a raise in 15 years — nobody with whom I work has — and I’ve lived for 25 years in a small US city that’s seen housing prices skyrocket because of an influx of WFH homebuyers from the Northeastern megalopolis.)

  84. dedicated1776*

    There is an undercurrent in this letter and some of the comments of “Jane is lucky.” We don’t have enough information here to say that for sure; maybe she was born into an already-prosperous family and had tons of advantages from that, or maybe she worked her a** off to get to her education and build a career. Or a combination! But either way, she did something to get to where she was before she took this sabbatical. Definitely doesn’t sound like she was the tech company founder’s kid who just got handed a job she didn’t earn.

    By the way, not uncommon for professionals to leave a difficult or really demanding job and take a retail or admin job for a short stint to regain their balance. I’ve not done it but can think of two people in my field off the top of my head who have.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      I have hired several people in cases like that – they had a managerial role of some kind and switched to being individual contributors. I once had someone do that in the same company. For some, it was temporary and others found it a better fit.

    2. Irish Teacher*

      “We don’t have enough information here to say that for sure; maybe she was born into an already-prosperous family and had tons of advantages from that, or maybe she worked her a** off to get to her education and build a career. Or a combination!”

      Honestly, I think all those options count as lucky. I grew up poor, but that doesn’t change the fact that I have been incredibly lucky to get a degree, a post-graduate, a good job, etc. Maybe I didn’t have mammy or daddy’s money to get grinds (extra tuition) or mammy or daddy’s friend willing to give me a job, but…I was lucky enough to be smart in ways the education system rewards, like having a good memory and good reading skills. I was lucky to have a supportive family and experience no abuse or trauma in my childhood. I was lucky to have good mental and physical health. I was lucky to be born in a country where college is attainable without being born into wealth and at a time when that is possible. Had I been born prior to the ’60s, it is very likely I wouldn’t even have gotten to secondary school. I was lucky my dad inherited a house from his parents so I didn’t have the stigma that is often attached to living on a council estate.

      Yeah, I guess it’s possible she is the rare person who was born into poverty and an abusive or otherwise unsupportive family and struggled with an undiagnosed learning difficulty and therefore barely gained literacy in her early school days and was written off by the school system and had nobody willing to mentor her and still worked hard to overcome that, but the odds are very high that luck played some part. I wouldn’t assume she was born into a wealthy family, but I would guess that as she has a Masters, the odds are she was “academic,” had skills valued by the education system. And certainly, she was lucky enough to get a well-paying job that offers sabbaticals. That is always going to involve a certain amount of luck. Even if she was the perfect candidate, she had no control over the fact that there was a position available. And it’s very likely she had at least one of the following kinds of luck – above average intelligence, supportive family, lack of extreme poverty, lack of serious mental or physical health problems, being neurotypical…

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yes to all of this! I read the “Jane is lucky” comments more as a “we don’t know how Jane ended up at this job that offers sabbaticals” (and I agree with Irish Teacher that luck played some part, large or small). It’s certainly does not say anything bad about Jane to say she’s lucky.

    3. bamcheeks*

      It actually doesn’t matter how Jane made her wealth, whether she bootstrapped her way up or was born into a Harvard-alumni family and did six unpaid internships on the family dime before she got her first real job. The impact of that wealth on LW’s community happens either way.

    4. Observer*

      But either way, she did something to get to where she was before she took this sabbatical.

      This is not really relevant, and also not really helpful to the OP. The implication that if the OP has ALSO “done something” to get to a better place then all would be well is not only unkind, it’s unfair. And you really don’t know that it’s even true.

      What’s more, some of the choices that may have had some impact on the OP’s current circumstances are actually things that are beneficial to society as a whole. eg People like to look down their noses at women who have children young. But guess what? Having children is important for our society to continue to function, and waiting till you have advanced education and an established career doesn’t always work out so well in terms of having kids.

  85. Pierrot*

    I empathize with what the LW is feeling, because I’ve had similar feelings too, though in different contexts. I’ve dealt with some health issues that were beyond my control and it’s meant that I’m not really where I want to be.

    LW- in your case the frustration is clearly coming from the very valid reality of income inequality and gentrification. Those are both issues that are way beyond your control and it’s really hard to grapple with something that feels so far out of your hands. But I’m also wondering if you’re feeling burnt out from working in the service industry and frustrated by the pay/lack of opportunities for growth. That’s how I felt when I worked in that industry, especially at a small business.

    I think it’s worth examining your feelings about your actual job, independent of Jane, and if you have a desire to move onto something different. If you do, it might be helpful to channel the frustration into taking steps to look for another job. I know that’s really hard to do when you are working full time and dealing with other stressors and parenting, but you can start small. In my case, my mental health was really deteriorating in a retail job at a small business where the owner belittled me on a daily basis. I felt like I was stuck in the service industry forever. When I started taking steps to get out of the industry, the problems at work became more manageable because I felt less trapped.

    Finally, I disagree with some of the comments that are saying Allison is being too harsh here. She’s definitely being harsh here but I think the LW would benefit from a wakeup call. She could compromise her own job/livelihood (in my experience, when someone is very resentful of another person it’s usually pretty apparent) and she could benefit from re-evaluating how she feels about this job.

  86. Danish*

    Ah I’m sorry OP, I totally understand the jealous feelings, especially if you’re running yourself ragged and it seems like Jane could waltz off the job any time she wanted. But even from your angry descriptions, to me it just sounds like Jane wants a job to keep her busy and is doing her best to be as helpful as possible. Like others have said, I’d encourage you to focus on the things she does that are actually very helpful to you, like taking the shifts nobody else will work.

    I admit I also have some empathy for Jane – I’m not married and don’t have a job that would pay me to go on sabbatical, but I do have a big city salary that would “stretch” a lot further if I moved back to my home state, which I have looked into! And to be clear: my big city salary that would (MAYBE.) let me own a home in a smaller town would barely afford me a rental shoebox here if I didn’t have a much-better-paid roommate currently. I feel like it’s possible that Jane’s friends (while tone deaf) maybe aren’t quite as despicable richies as other commenters think – generally when I think of people talking about their income “stretching further”, they aren’t people who are wealthy. They may be better off in the small town and should be mindful of those around them for sure, but wealthy people don’t need their income to stretch. As for the size of the house… Well okay to again use my own situation: I can’t buy a house in my big city. I could buy a fancy 2bed in my hometown that would work out to a mortgage that’s just-about-affordable if I curtail other expenses. I do not NEED a fancy 2 bed, but there are only new builds of family homes going up. There are no smaller homes available. My choice would be Big House I Don’t Need With A Big Mortgage or no house. Possiy that’s the situation in your town too.

    1. Don't Call Me Shirley*

      Yeah, rich is relative, and to a certain extent, professional remote folks are closer in salary to the bottom than to the ultra wealthy. I have a reasonably high household income, but living in a small townhouse with kids in a neighbourhood of detached houses skews my perception from time to time. We don’t go to somewhere warm for school break and drive a 10 year old car, does that make me rich and cheap or just middle class? I can’t imagine affording the private school down the road, does that mean I can’t be rich? But I could buy a new car if mine broke down, without a loan, does that mean I am rich?

  87. learnedthehardway*

    OP, your problem is not Jane. In fact, Jane is a benefit in your life, and you need to look at her that way.

    Your problem is economics and social issues. Jane isn’t responsible for those. She’s simply living her life. She isn’t living it AT you.

    If you were in Jane’s situation – laid off from a high paying job, having moved to a new community, maybe dealing with burnout, needing some stability and purpose, etc. etc. YOU would be doing the exact same thing. ie. working at what you could get, trying to be resilient and resourceful.

    Be thankful that Jane is an excellent worker, conscientious, and not overstepping her role. LEARN from her – she obviously has strong management background. This is a golden opportunity for you to develop your skills, with someone who is willing to share, and who is not looking to take your job. If you have any ideas of progressing your career – whether within your industry or another one – having a mentor like Jane is wonderful.

    I’ve worked my entire career with people who – because of circumstances, connections, skill sets, timing – were better positioned than I was in my industry. I joined the industry as it was starting to become commoditized and as technology revolutionized how work was done. People who started the industry made millions. That’s no longer possible. I was female in a male-dominated industry – that limited my opportunities for growth and mentoring, and put family obstacles in my way that most male colleagues didn’t have to worry about. I don’t have the sales / business development drive/passion that is necessary to progress to the top of my industry – that will always limit my opportunities. Etc. etc.

    What I have learned is that resenting individuals does not help me. Unless they are actively trying to harm my success, they are not responsible for the conditions under which they or I exist. Rather, I have found my own niche, maximized my opportunities within it, developed relationships with great people in my industry who can help and mentor me, and have come to value the business development they do that allows me to focus on the areas where I am stronger than them.

    You can cultivate the same kind of approach – don’t blame/penalize Jane for the fact that she represents the economic or social issues that you face, but instead see this as an opportunity that will help you.

  88. Don't Call Me Shirley*

    So, the problem didn’t originate with people moving to lcol areas, it just changed the people it affected, and shifted things. High housing costs in a city are harmful even if the rich people are forced to live there, because so many jobs need to be done that won’t pay enough – someone runs the hotel desk or cleans the offices or serves coffee or sells food (all jobs I have friends doing as adults). Remote workers moving affects the market in the city they left, the place they moved, and unrelated places that want to attract residents.

    People also tend not to see themselves as rich. The money going further comment may have come from a friend who couldn’t afford child care or whatever else in the city, who feels able to breathe having moved. Sure, it’s not sensitive to a local person with a lower salary, but there’s financial pressure from a high cost of living a few layers up. I have no patience for the 350k and just getting by articles, and people, but I can see how 100k can feel like not much in a hcol area, and maybe see a lower salary in a rural area as going further… If it’s really fair or not.

  89. LW to Jane*

    I have been in the same life situations as both LW and Jane. Maybe LW doesn’t understand what this job, and working, mean to Jane?

    Until this past year or so, I was consistently broke. I worked jobs that barely paid more than minimum wage, lived on my own/supported myself, my degree is only an associates, and I was working in a field where everyone had Masters. Over the years, I had been able to build myself up in my field to the point I was receiving awards, conference grants, grants. I’m good at what I do. For all of my working life I have HAD to work (sometimes multiple jobs), and still filed bankruptcy by 24 (which means barely any banks would consider me for loans).

    In the last year, I have become Jane. I married my husband who has a good job. We had a baby. He got a promotion. With the cost of childcare compared to my salary, we were going to essentially be paying for me to go to work if I worked full-time. I decided to leave my industry for one I was more passionate about/easier/fun and go part-time. I don’t HAVE to work – my husband has stated many times he would be happy to have me stay home and he just pick up more overtime – but I like making my own money, want to keep my career going, need my time away from the house, etc. For the first time in my life, I’M the person at work who doesn’t “need” the job (and I am overqualified for it as well).

    But I love my job. I love it. I have been here less than a year, and I would be devastated to be let go. My job gets me out of the house, it makes me feel productive, it reminds me I am still me – not just mom and wife. I get to interact with people. So if I was fired because my financial situation was better than my managers….yeah I would be raising some hell, and be deeply hurt.

  90. Not Totally Subclinical*

    LW, I sympathize; I’m in a city that was affordable when I moved here and that I wouldn’t be able to live in now if I didn’t already own my house; I’d hoped to live here the rest of my life, but with property taxes going up much faster than my income, that’s looking unlikely. So I totally get why you resent Jane for what she represents.

    Thing is, Jane did not single-handedly cause the housing crisis. Firing Jane is not going to raise your income. Treating Jane like dirt is not going to reduce the problem of skyrocketing housing costs. (Having an honest “Jane, that party at your huge house with friends who talk about how far their money goes here? That’s a really bad look; higher-income folks moving here has made it harder for people like me to afford to live here, and it felt like you were rubbing it in” conversation — that might actually be a helpful tiny step for raising awareness, but right now it sounds like you’re not in a position to have that conversation.)

    If there are politicians (local, state, national) representing you who have contributed to the housing and financial crisis, turn your ire on them and work on getting them fired. That’s going to help a lot more than firing an excellent worker who happens to have had a higher-paying job in the past.

  91. Susan banana cake*

    I would encourage LW to see this from Jane’s perspective. Jane is on a paid sabbatical from her corporate job and is working as a cashier in a bakery. Is it possible that Jane was having major burn out or a mental health crisis and needed a break?

    Comparison is absolutely the thief of joy and there is a huge amount of assumption in this about how amazing Jane’s life must be.

    1. Delta Delta*

      No kidding. I’ve been a really high performer for close to 20 years. I’d love to be a cashier in a bakery for a while. It would be good work, and wouldn’t require the mental and emotional energy. And there’d be cookies.

  92. CLC*

    Allison’s response is spot on. Yet I do really sympathize with this person. I once worked for a small, low-paying company where everyone was independently wealthy (spouses, trust funds, etc) and it is terrible. It’s the worst possible culture to be in when the owners/leaders of a company truly believe that “the type of people who work here” don’t need or care about money or health insurance. It sounds like a one-off thing for this bakery, but I do hope it doesn’t become a situation where it becomes a hobby for more recent transplants and displace people who are working to live.

  93. Yes And*

    If OP is looking to channel their energies into something productive that will improve their housing prospects, I’m sure their city as a local YIMBY organization advocating for the building of more, denser housing.

  94. Delta Delta*

    Honest question for OP – if Jane is on a 2 year sabbatical, what happens when that’s up? Does OP have a plan for who she’ll hire next when Jane goes back to her regular full time life? Are there fantastic things OP can learn from Jane in the meantime? I’d see Jane as more an opportunity than a source of all evils. Just depends on how you choose to look at it.

    1. Lavender*

      That’s a good point. Two years isn’t a particularly long time to stay at a job, and that’s assuming Jane will be working there for the entire duration of her sabbatical. So, OP’s problem will solve itself on its own in the relatively near future when Jane presumably goes back to her other job. (Hiring someone to fill Jane’s position might prove to be an even bigger problem, but OP can cross that bridge when they come to it.)

  95. JP*

    OP, just chiming in here in case you’re reading to let you know that I completely understand your feelings, and I don’t think you’re wrong to feel them. But, try to find a way to let them go. Those kinds of emotions can eat a person up and make them miserable. Again, you’re not wrong for feeling them, but you don’t want to be consumed by them. Once you’re able to let go a bit and get that emotional distance, I think everything will be overall easier for you to deal with.
    I don’t think I would much care for Jane on a personal level, either. But, that doesn’t mean you can’t work with her.

  96. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

    I really think everyone harping on the OP is missing the point. The OP specifically said they won’t fire the person because they’re good at their job and getting someone to cover the night shift and do the work other people don’t want to do is hard. They *know* the correct answer; what they’re asking for is how to manage their emotions/feelings about the situation, which is a *completely* reasonable thing to ask, especially for someone who’s newer to managing people.

    1. lost academic*

      “I want to fire her but I have no good reason, because she’s good at her job and having someone work the early morning and late nights is hard.” is exactly what OP said and so it has a different meaning then I think what you’ve taken from it. I am not sure OP DOES know the correct answer though the final question is at least the right one, but it’s not enough to suggest OP understands that she needs to figure out how to deal with everything she’s vented about in this letter. She SEEMS to know the right end result but getting there is just as important. She is also NOT asking, as you said, for how to manage her emotions, but how to manage JANE – that says to me along with everything else that she thinks Jane is the problem and if she were just gone it wouldn’t exist. OP has a TON to unpack.

    2. Observer*

      And the answer is that step one is to recognize that they have allowed their feelings to go waaay over the op.

      “I would fire her if I could get away with it” is just bad. Not as bad as ACTUALLY firing her, but still. The OP needs to step back and realize that seriously considering firing someone over being “too rich” is a really, really bad approach.

      If the OP thinks that “Ah, can I find a way to fire Jane” is ok, then when that thought keeps on coming up, they will indulge it. And it’s just going to get worse. On the other hand, if the OP recognizes that it’s really not OK, when that though pops up, they will essentially send it packing. And then they can focus on managing Jane the same way they would manage any other good employee.

      1. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

        If the OP is writing in for advice, presumably they understand that it’s not ok to fire someone for these reasons. And Alison’s advice is fine! My issue is with the amount of vilification going on in the comments toward OP, who–albeit more intensely–is facing an issue that’s common to a lot of managers: what happens when you find out someone you manage makes* more money than you, who manages them?

        I also see a lot of commenters offering some really good tips to OP about getting to know Jane on a deeper level, and I think that’s very sound advice. Jane sounds like she has some management background, and if OP can overcome feeling threatened by that, there’s probably some excellent insights OP could get.

        * I recognize that the paid salary Jane gets while on sababtical has absolutely nothing to do with the bakery job

        1. Observer*

          If the OP is writing in for advice, presumably they understand that it’s not ok to fire someone for these reasons.

          That’s not the implications of what she says, though. She seems to be saying that it’s OK but that she “can’t”.

          I think that a lot of the pushback is over all of the people being so upset at how UNFAIR and unduly HARSH Allison is being. But she’s not. What the OP says is legitimately bad. And because I don’t think the OP is a terrible person but they are steeped in their resentment, they need to hear clearly and unambiguously that their thinking has really gone perilously close to the edge.

  97. megaboo*

    I absolutely agree with Allison, I do. I might secretly and irrationally feel like your work at the bakery is a “hobby” job for Jane (and I totally recognize I need to work on that!). She’s on sabbatical…she’ll eventually return to her position at the tech company. But you have to treat her fairly and can grab pointers from her experience in management.

  98. no one reads this far*

    LW: Your feelings are valid, to a point. It’s frustrating when we see people doing better than us even though we work hard and have been doing our best. Its not fair that you’re struggling but that’s where it stops. It’s not unfair that she seems to be doing better than you

    You don’t know her situation and even if it turns out she’s a bored rich woman, she’s still doing an exemplary job and willing to pitch in doing what I assume isn’t an easy job.

  99. umami*

    It might help to think in terms of what the move meant for Jane and her family. Sure, you see them touting the benefits, but there also wsa significant upheaval in their lives that they may not have wanted. Just because they speak of the positive doesn’t mean everything in their lives is great. The fact that she is working shifts most people don’t want says to me that things aren’t as great as they seem on the surface.

  100. e271828*

    If OP can get past the corrosive feelings, they might find Jane a valuable resource. Not just for the issues arising in bakery management, but on how to move up from bakery management: what skills should OP cultivate for that? What sort of better jobs might their present skillset lead them to? Are there applicable classes available anywhere nearby? And so on.

    I’m not saying lean on Jane heavily and obviously for tips, but Jane as a resource is a gift that will rarely come OP’s way, and if OP wants to do better in life, Jane may be willing to coach them in the right direction out of the crab bucket.

  101. Gigi*

    I’m 100% sympathetic to LW. As someone’s whose hometown has undergone massive gentrification, it’s really hard to not see the new people as the face of the problem. And while Jane might not be actively living her life *at* LW, there’s going to be comments that feel off hand to Jane but are absolute punches in the gut to LW. It almost hurts worse because the Janes of the world don’t seem to even know what they have.

    As for the people saying LW should focus on their own finances and try to improve their life…y’all, sometimes that’s just not possible. If you’re living paycheck to paycheck and prices keep rising, where’s the money and time to take classes or join a gym or whathaveyou going to come from?

    If anything, LW, you can at least be grateful that there seems to be an end point to her sabbatical when she’ll be out of your hair.

    (Also, a sabbatical, an extended time in which you are being paid and not working, is a HUGE privilege afforded to very few. She is indeed working one job and getting paid for two, and I wish more people here wouldn’t dismiss that just by saying “well that’s part of her job so it doesn’t count.”)

    1. Colette*

      If the OP moved to a third, lower cost of living town, she could be Jane. I assure you that the OP is better off than a lot of people in the world, but she’s only comparing herself to those who had it better – and that’s on her, not Jane. I don’t think she need to improve her finances, I think she needs to change her perspective. Volunteer in a soup kitchen for a few months, for example. I’d say the OP is just as oblivious to what she has as Jane is. (She’s got a running water and electricity? She’s doing better off than the richest people 150 years ago, and millions of people today.)

      We don’t know the circumstances of Jane’s sabbatical (which could be medical leave), but if she worked at 80% of salary for 4 years so she could get the remaining 20+20+20+20% she earned during the fifth year, the OP could do the same – bank 20% of her salary every year and pull out that saved money the fifth year.

      1. blam*

        ‘Better off than homeless’ and ‘can afford to bank 20% of salary’ are…not the same thing.

        1. Colette*

          I realize the OP may not be in a financial situation to save 20% of her salary, of course. But if she were, when she got the 20% of years 1 – 4 in year 5, she wouldn’t be getting paid to do nothing, she’d getting money she saved. If that’s the case, she’s not working one job and being paid for two, she’s working one job and being paid for one job – while also accessing savings from a previous job.

          1. blam*

            Sure, that’s accurate as far as it goes. I’m not sure that the difference between ‘paid sabbatical’ and ‘able to save an entire year’s income’ is more than a technicality, though. OP is struggling to afford rent. Most people in that position aren’t socking much away. The ins and outs of Jane’s relative privilege aren’t going to make the difference – it’s still comparatively huge, and that’s what fuels the resentment. OP needs to get to grips with it and she absolutely cannot mistreat Jane, but I don’t think that saying ‘well you could have done this too [in some other timeline where you had buying power like Jane’s]!’ is going to help.

      3. Eldritch Office Worker*

        “Eat your plate there are kids out there starving” is not helpful to anyone. You still have to deal with the plate in front of you.

        OP lost something. Her town changed around her. Capitalism and gentrification screwed her over. That has happened over and over – mostly to already disenfranchised communities, for what it’s worth. She’s allowed to mourn that. She’s allowed to be upset. She’s not allowed to hurt someone else over it, but “this is not rock bottom” does not change the realities she’s processing.

        1. Colette*

          Sure, it’s reasonable to be upset, and to mourn the things you won’t be able to do that you would have liked to do.

          But that’s not Jane’s fault, and that’s where I think the OP is going wrong.

    2. JP*

      The sabbatical aspect would rub me the wrong way as well. It’s ultimately Jane’s business, not the OP’s, I know, but still.

    3. SofiaDeo*

      If someone chooses to use their free time doing something that earns money, what is wrong with that? This is no different than people who have several side hustles, correct?

      1. JP*

        Not really. A side hustle implies that you’re working a primary job, and the side hustle is what you do in your off time. If Jane was working her tech job full time and then coming in nights and weekends to cashier at the bakery, that’d be one thing, but that’s not the case here.

        1. SofiaDeo*

          But is sort of is. From what I have been told about the long tech sabbaticals, the people who get them have worked their butt off. As in, earned them. It’s not “I am taking this time off work and living from the proceeds of the quarterly dividend of my investment portfolio”, it’s a *job benefit* to offset the long hours/burnout/creative necessity for specific jobs. A benefit not everyone gets to be sure, just like people have crap jobs with no PTO/sick leave, or medical benefits? And some of these “sabbatical leaves” have PTO the person never got to use during the preceding years, tacked onto the sabbatical. So yes, 2 years is longer than standard, but. Did Jane actually, (factually) even tell the owner “I am on a 2 year sabbatical” when it might have been some combo of sabbatical, PTO, and/or unpaid leave? Did owner repeat what Jane said accurately? We all know how facts can get subtly distorted in the re-telling. OP said Jane takes shifts that no one wants/are hard to cover. If Jane said to owner, “I am looking for part time, I will only be available for 2 years, I will work any shift” and owner has had problems staffing these shifts (as LW stated) then no business owner in their right mind would pass on a Jane.

          So I do think this can be considered a “side hustle”, of hours which the locals haven’t been keen to fill, and you really can’t claim Jane is “taking hours from anyone” when the owner has had problems filling the slot.

    4. Observer*

      She is indeed working one job and getting paid for two, and I wish more people here wouldn’t dismiss that just by saying “well that’s part of her job so it doesn’t count.”

      It doesn’t count because the OP (and the OP’s company) is NOT paying for it. *AND* that privilege is payment for a DIFFERENT job.

      The fact that she is lucky enough to have this unusual privilege does not mean that she’s being paid twice for the same job. Just as if she had been using her savings, an inheritance or income from investments to mostly fiance her life.

      Yes. She has significant privilege. And yes, it stinks for the OP to be in the position she’s in. But it still is stupid and inaccurate to claim that she’s being paid twice for the same work.

    5. Carlene*

      Jane *earned* the sabbatical as part of her tech job. It’s a BIG privilege. But Jane *earned* it.

      Jane is *earning* money at the job in the bakery.

    6. Rhiannon*

      A sabbatical typically means you still have to do research, you just don’t have to teach. But no matter the context, it’s an earned benefit. I was on sabbatical a few years ago, but making $56,000. Some of y’all are acting like Jane is making gobs of money on her sabbatical, without proof.

      The snark at Jane is weirdly hostile.

  102. blam*

    Oh OP. It’s not fair. But Jane is not the machine, she’s just the cog that happens to be standing in front of you. You also really, truly do not know what’s happening in her life and why she’s on a prolonged break from whatever that well-paid job was. I have been pushed out of my home town by out-of-town massive salaries, too. My husband and I are wildly more qualified than my parents were, but my parents were easily able to buy a house there on one moderate salary, and we had two coming in but still ended up priced way out of the rental market.

    You can’t take out your frustrations on Jane. Really, really can’t. That would be so wrong. And frankly you’d be worse for it as well. You’ve got to find some kind of peace with it that lets you work with her. But I’d stop going to the parties with her friends. Yeesh.

  103. Nope*

    People like Jane are a problem, though. They create all these truly life altering problems for people who make much less money than they do, and they have zero self awareness about it.

    Jane will probably buy the bakery in a couple years and slash everybody’s salary so she can make even more money.

    1. SofiaDeo*

      I don’t see how the fact of Jane’s existence and her life situation “creates problems”. I am sorry you personally seem to be having problems, to extrapolate/project these type of statements about the situation. Jane was not described as flaunting her wealth, etc. so how exactly is she exhibiting zero self awareness? By inviting someone over to her house? Which people in small towns do, across the social spectrum?

      I am so sorry to hear your pain, your post obviously is coming from a place of unhappiness and anger.

      1. blam*

        People like Jane create problems by bringing comparatively huge buying power to a lower COL area and pushing up prices for the people who already lived there. This is a choice those people make. Holding one person responsible for the entire local housing market is not reasonable, but pretending that gentrification comes out of nowhere and we should all have warm fuzzy feelings about said gentrifiers isn’t reasonable either. Jane CAN do what she has done, obviously. And people can have feelings about it.

        It is indeed painful to struggle financially because people with greater privilege decided they’d like a bit of what you had and suddenly you can’t afford it any more. Taking it all out on Jane is wrong. Having the feelings isn’t.

        1. Zap R.*

          So, middle-class professionals like Jane who can no longer afford to live in large urban centres…where do they go? If you get priced out of your old neighbourhood, you don’t necessarily have a whole lot of “choice.”

          1. arthur lester*

            Seriously. I’m a tech professional who has moved into a neighborhood that’s in the process of being gentrified, because cost of living has gone so insane that it is *all I can afford*. Sure, I could maybe cut it in a more central location, but it would put me, ironically, in OPs position of just sort-of-making-rent.
            I would love to not be part of the problem! But with the discussions of Jane and her friends talking about stretching their salaries, I think it’s way more likely that they have *also* run into COL spikes. (Because uh… those spikes aren’t just from out of towners moving into the countryside! It’s everywhere, combined with a burgeoning recession.)

        2. Meep*

          Gentrification is 100% an issue. We are seeing a large flux of people move out of California and New York into smaller towns which increases housing prices across the board. Do you know what doesn’t solve gentrification? Blaming the migrants.

          If you want to solve it, push your government officials to raise the federal minimum wage and support monthly stipends for families. Heck, even a $1,000 monthly stipend for all citizens has been shown to help incredibly in some cities and save millions on government spending. Do something productive rather than hitting someone else who isn’t to blame, ffs.

          1. blam*

            Which is why I said OP absolutely cannot mistreat Jane and that Jane is not single-handedly responsible for the entire local housing market. I don’t mean to advocate punishing anyone or pinning all the blame on an individual. What I mostly mean is that it’s OK to *feel* angry, and definitely OK to avoid parties where people revel in a situation that is screwing you over. You don’t have to feel warm and fuzzy about the Janes who are buying your town out from under you. And doing something productive is great, but it would be even greater if more Janes recognised their role in things and *also* pushed said government officials for X, Y and Z.

            1. blam*

              I mean, I have some salty feelings about the big-city salary earners who priced me out of renting in my home town. (I moved, and still just about made rent rather than not standing a chance. I eventually bought an extremely ordinary and run-down house at the bottom of the market that had been available for months. I still have very inadequate savings and have no real idea how I’m going to retire one day. I am not Jane.) I don’t expect them to GAF about my feelings. I’m also not going to try and make myself think sunshiny thoughts about them. They’ve got financial security and a lovely place to live, they’ll be fine without my blessing on top of it.

              1. is this dystopia?*

                I’ve met big-city earners who priced me out too. They’re so quick to talk about HOW MUCH NICE SPACE they bought, completely oblivious to the wages, lifestyles, and struggles of the locals.

                Okay, sure, perhaps the big city earners were priced out too – but they had the means to relocate – a privilege. And they did so. And they could have stayed and struggled, which is exactly what locals are trying to do when there isn’t anywhere else to go. But the big earners don’t have to brag about it to the lower earners. Look up ring theory.

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Jane is a tech professional on a sabbatical, so that is incredibly unlikely.

      I get that you are projecting personal experiences and I’m sorry, but the advice to the LW applies to you as well. This individual is not the problem.

    3. arthur lester*

      This is some fascinating fanfiction, considering Jane has made it clear she doesn’t want to move up.

      Also, I’d be curious to know what life altering problems Jane has created, here? Not the systemic wave of gentrification hitting more or less the entire country as people try to flee high costs of living. Jane *specifically*.

    4. Shenandoah*

      “Jane will probably buy the bakery in a couple years and slash everybody’s salary so she can make even more money.”

      —

      This is such nonsense.

    5. Burger Bob*

      There is zero indication that the Jane in your comment and the Jane in the original post are anywhere close to being the same person. This is some truly wild and unfounded speculation on your part.

  104. Bess*

    LW: you need to separate your feelings about this person and recognize that whatever brought her into your bakery is a win for you. You have an exceptional employee, highly qualified, who takes undesirable shifts and generally makes your job easier. How would firing her help you or the bakery?

    You need to stop thinking in terms of who “deserves” a job or doesn’t when your reasoning comes from personal business that does not relate to actual work performance.

    Honestly, even if Jane were independently wealthy or a secret billionaire, that doesn’t impact the fact that she seems like a gift to your bakery. She can command a much higher salary but is bringing her talent somewhere smaller without complaint.

    Like, are you going to resent another employee of yours who is healthier than you, or is childless and therefore has less financial pressure, or has some other advantage over you?

    Social inequity is a huge thing but life inherently also has some unfairness baked in even when you take messed up social schemes out of it–we’re all a part of a genetic lottery in addition to the social circumstances we’re born into. To a certain extent you have to avoid blaming individuals who are also part of systems they didn’t construct and would likely change if they could; it’s also more productive (not always possible, but where there is some possibility) to identify if there are any choices you could make differently to influence your own situation differently. And if they are choices you wouldn’t make (for example, getting a degree and aiming for a high-powered, high-salary job that ultimately wouldn’t provide the kind of life you want to live), and if so, can you frame it like that?

    And to be clear–even if Jane is a secret billionaire, you still can’t hold that over her or see her as less deserving of employment. But honestly…I’ve never heard of a two-year fully paid sabbatical from a job with really high expectations and high salary? Like that’s not a common tech worker thing, at least not a thing that gets handed to you, that I’ve ever heard of. As others have suggested, is that code for “I had a mental breakdown” or “I was fired with generous severance” or “I am studying for additional degrees and therefore working all day” or any number of other things.

    Focus on what you can control and change, and accept that you can’t change everything; above all, stop making Jane responsible for the way our current social and economic environment works.

  105. JustMe*

    I am VERY curious to know what country OP is in.

    In the US context, everything Alison said is correct. In general, actually, I think everything Alison has said is correct. BUT I do know that that’s not necessarily the case in other countries, especially Ireland. In those contexts, there very much IS a culture that you only bring home one paycheck, and taking a second job is essentially taking a job from someone who might have nothing.

    If OP is operating in that context……it wouldn’t change my *answer*, per se (still shouldn’t fire a good employee) but I would say that OP should shrug it off and remind themselves that Jane will be gone in a year and someone else can have her position, rather than having a more serious examination of my own feelings, as this may be more of a professional faux pas in some places than in others.

        1. Starbuck*

          Could be almost anywhere in the western US, there are a ton of small towns with lots of outdoor recreation / pretty views nearby that have lately been overrun as remote workers have moved in – see the reporting on ‘Zoom Towns’. But it has been happening for much longer than that of course.

          1. SofiaDeo*

            “Moved from the mainland” was the hint that it’s an island, and probably not Cali. Those islands are generally wealthy enclaves.

            1. Starbuck*

              You’re right, could be an island in the Puget Sound, or possibly Hawaii, or I dunno, some of the other states have islands too. Actually it doesn’t narrow it down that much, but I hear the island towns have similar problems to the mountain towns with the intense tourism/second home / wealthy enclave thing happening.

            2. STAT!*

              “The mainland” comment makes me think it is Tasmania. Though the rest of the letter (eg reference to the “sabbatical”) makes me less inclined to think so.

    2. Sylvia*

      Yes–I also wondered about that. Unless one is living in a place with more jobs than workers, there’s always a danger of taking away a job from someone who needs it to survive. I get very annoyed when traveling in a third world country with a high unemployment rate and see Americans and Europeans working in the shops. (Although full disclaimer, this never would have occurred to me as being potentially harmful when I was in my 20s.)

  106. Lizard*

    Oh, I feel your pain and understand where you are coming from OP! But please please please take a step back. You’re projecting all your frustrations and legitimate social grievances unto this woman, and that is really not right. It might seem like she’s a symbol of all that’s wrong with our post-pandemic housing picture, but she’s not. She’s a real person, whom you both work with and manage.

    I agree with Allison – you’ve got to either reign your feelings in here or step aside. Keep your focus (& any further interactions with Jane) on work, and triple-check yourself that you aren’t treating her any different from any other employee, if you choose to stick it out. Simmering resentment has a way of showing itself no matter what you do, so really try to let that go – if you don’t that will create a whole other subset of problems that I don’t really believe you want. You’ve so far described a model employee – take that as a win and concentrate on actual problems you need to manage.

  107. Zap R.*

    Not to pile on but the decision to leave her old city might have been really tough for Jane. Being priced out of the community you thought you’d build a life in sucks. The thing you’re so afraid of happening to you and your husband has already happened to Jane – she’s not the enemy here.

    1. arthur lester*

      I wish I had upvotes for this post. Some of these comments really exemplify the issue with class consciousness as a whole– people take those who are *still working class* but better off financially as the “rich enemy” when those people are a hell of a lot closer to living paycheck to paycheck or becoming unhoused than they are to being rich enough to be untouchable. Eat the rich doesn’t refer to your neighbor who is working in customer service but has a nice house!

    2. Starbuck*

      Where are you seeing that Jane was priced out of her old city? We know she left, and that her money goes farther in the new town, but not that she left because she couldn’t afford to stay.

        1. Starbuck*

          No, I just see commentors that seem convinced that Jane left because she couldn’t afford to stay in the city she was in, and implying that means LW should be more sympathetic to her because Jane knows what it’s like to be in LW’s position, or something.

  108. Meow*

    The lack of sympathy for the OP and some of the name calling is really disturbing in some of these comments. Many (most?) AAM commenters work decent paying jobs. When Alison collected data on salaries it overwhelmingly leaned white collar work, with decent to high paying salaries. I make 6 figures myself. But I also understand that unrestrained capitalism, landlords buying out huge numbers of houses and gentrification are serious social issues impacting millions of people in the US. Struggling financially is extremely difficult, it impacts every area of your life and is naturally going to be fraught with emotions. 100% agree OP can’t fire Jane because of this and she can’t treat her differently, but this should be a safe space where folks can share this type of thing and ask for help without being called a villain, a bad person or shameful. There’s also a lot of “pick yourself up by the bootstraps” mentality in here too, adding additional shame onto OP for not focusing on the positive and doing what she can to increase her own financial position. Everyone should know by now that it’s not that simple or in some cases possible at all – many people have barriers that others simply don’t. Again, acting on her emotions and firing Jane would obviously be wrong – but she’s not wrong for feeling the way she does and until you’ve been in a similar situation it’s hard to describe how intensely emotional this type of experience can be. And yes, I have been in a similar experience in the past.

    1. Meep*

      I don’t see anyone being unkind to OP. Unless you mean by calling out OP for being unkind to Jane as unkind. There is a lot of sympathy for OP. But it isn’t Jane’s fault and lashing out at Jane is counterproductive. This the gist of the advice.

      1. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

        There are commenters that are calling her villainous/saying it’s a villain origin story. There are people who are saying OP is awful for feeling the way they do.

        The feelings are misplaced, for sure, but I think people are misconstruing the feelings for the actions (and if OP was gonna act on those feelings, they probably wouldn’t have written into AAM in the first place).

    2. Shenandoah*

      “But we went to her house over Christmas for a party…”

      …yet didn’t have to. As such, why LW did so is a curiosity in all of this.

      1. Colette*

        I suspect that the OP thought she and Jane were in the same sort of circumstances, and seeing Jane’s house made her thing Jane was much wealthier than her (which may or may not be true).

        1. Bess*

          This is where I think LW showed other tendency to bias–small detail, but she and Jane got along when she thought she and Jane were the same. This is also a sign of poor management skills. You need to be able to manage generally with detachment and build rapport with people who are unlike you.

      3. Willow Pillow*

        That may be a matter of politeness on Jane’s part (inviting people she works with) and inexperience on LW’s part (attending and eroding manager-report boundaries) . I’ve been in similar circumstances of listening to tone-deaf discussions while I have no idea how to get even a fraction of what they have… but it really seems like Jane can help LW a lot if she is able to be open to it.

    3. no one reads this far*

      I don’t think anyone is being unkind. LW’s income situation is frustrating and unfair. But this isn’t Jane’s fault. That’s the take away here.

      I am the LW minus having a Jane to manage. I can’t afford to live here. I’m in my #$&?ing 30s and living with my blessed parents. I hate it. It’s unfair that I’ve busted my butt my whole life and don’t have anything to show for it.

      But it’s not a coworker or subordinate’s fault I’m not paid enough and the COL here is stupidly out of control.

      1. Colette*

        Yeah, I get it! If I didn’t already own my house, I couldn’t afford to buy it. I don’t understand how anyone can buy in my neighbourhood – but rent is also through the roof. It’s not sustainable, and I have a lot of sympathy for anyone caught in that situation. But it’s not the fault of those who can afford to buy (assuming they are buying a house to live in).

        1. Sylvia*

          Sometimes it is their fault. I recently visited Oakland, California for the first time and was shocked. There are huge homeless encampments, and I was told by a journalist friend that a lot of the people living there were driven out of housing by high rents and property taxes, caused by people with six figure salaries moving into the area and wanting a cheaper alternative to San Francisco. I’m probably naive, but I didn’t know places in the United States could look like that, and I’ve lived here all my life.

          I have no idea if Jane and her friends are causing gentrification, but it would not be the first time that wealthy people stepped into a lovely community and drove the original inhabitants out.

        2. Starbuck*

          “But it’s not the fault of those who can afford to buy (assuming they are buying a house to live in).”

          I absolutely blame the people who are buying in the small town I live in as their summer home, second retirement home, etc. Jane is on sabbatical. We don’t know that Jane bought a house with the intention to stay long-term.

          (But I also blame the city for not allowing more apt buildings, townhomes/row houses, etc, and am lobbying for zoning changes to allow more to be built)

      2. Truth Bomb*

        Why is LW income situation unfair? She made her choices in life – has to support a kid and chooses to work in a bakery, just like Jane chose her life, or anyone chooses their path. LW is really just angry and frustrated at herself for her life choices and taking it out on someone successful.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          It’s not always as easy as “make different choices”. OP clearly settled down in a place that she could afford, built a life, and then had it gentrify around her. Once you’re settled in a place – have a job, a community, children – it’s not as easy as “go live somewhere cheaper”. If you can’t afford rent you probably can’t afford moving expenses, for one. Or the opportunity costs of relocation. You can’t afford to go back to school or learn a new trade. And you shouldn’t have to, because as you say – you made good choices. The world just went to hell around you.

          And that does feel awful and unfair. Getting stuck in a poverty cycle out of nowhere, when you’ve built a good life? It’s terrible. It happens to people all the time. Depressions, recessions, war, death, disease, disability – these things change people’s lives no matter what choices they made. Gentrification is on that list. Especially this kind, that came out of an economic shift that came out of a global pandemic. You can’t plan for that.

          OP is out of line towards Jane here, but let’s not act like those of us who may be thriving after COVID aren’t simply incredibly lucky.

          2. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

            This is when I wish there was the ability to plus one a comment because what you’ve said is exactly the point!

          3. blam*

            YES. This.

            There are two things baffling me in this comment section today. First, the people who thinking everyone can be as wealthy as Jane if they set their mind to it (you all know there aren’t enough high paid jobs for everyone to have one, yes? Someone has to do the other stuff). Second, the people who think this is about emotional insecurity and not having the fanciest house, rather than fundamental insecurity, financial insecurity, housing insecurity, not knowing if you can keep a roof over your kid’s head insecurity. Expecting someone in that situation to just shrug and go ‘them’s the breaks’ is really out of touch. (And yes, OP still needs a huge attitude adjustment in order to manage Jane.)

            1. Eldritch Office Worker*

              I really never thought of this as a “bootstraps” group. I thought we all had more nuance than that, even if the site trends white collar. I’m really disappointed.

              1. WestsideStory*

                I’m not getting that from the comments….rather it is being acknowledged that inequalities do exist. The original question was how OP could reframe management of an employee that was pushing a lot of legitimate buttons. The airier discussions of social justice are an interesting tangent, but a tangent nonetheless.

                1. Eyes Kiwami*

                  It’s relevant because wealth inequality is the context of the situation!
                  The fundamental question here is “I manage someone who is an example of a systemic problem that is destroying my community. How do I handle my feelings about that?”
                  There’s the feeling part, but the systemic part is very relevant.

            2. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

              I do think there’s at least a smidge of emotional insecurity on the part of OP. There’s the comment about being over-qualified for the job (having a masters degree / wouldn’t have hired them if it had been up to them), plus thinking Jane might be vying for the manager role at least point to possible insecurity.

              Not that I think it justifies telling OP to bootstrap their way to financial security. That’s out of touch and really a thought-terminating cliche–but it’s thought-terminating in the same way that “get over it” is about OP dealing with their emotions. Yes, that *has* to be outcome, but there are definite steps OP could take to help them get there. (Some of which have been pointed out by other thoughtful commenters such as yourself!)

              1. Starbuck*

                I mean, LW is seeing people like Jane come and out-compete her for housing, I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s “emotional insecurity” that LW is also worried people like Jane might out-compete her for jobs as well.

          4. Truth Bomb*

            I set up my life to be secure in case of trouble. I absolutely thrived during covid. My hard work at school, jobs I had while I went to school, and post college jobs, sometimes 2 jobs at once is not ‘luck’. It was hard work and I’m not going to apologize for that or be embarrassed about it. I’m not going to let anyone else make me feel like I don’t deserve my success. That’s their problem.

            2. Observer*

              No one is talking about whether you deserve success. But do you really think that the fact that you didn’t find yourself unexpectedly unemployed and unable to access UI because your state’s unemployment office was overwhelmed is all down to your good planning? That the fact that neither your nor anyone near you got hit with a REALLY bad case of covid, nor died, nor got long covid is all down to your brilliance? That your living in a place where housing costs haven’t skyrocketed in the last year is just about having perfect forecasting ability?

              Sure, you worked hard for what you had. No one doubts that. But there are a LOT of people who work(ed) hard, but have NOT had you LUCK. And, yes, it IS luck.

              1. Truth Bomb*

                I live in Manhattan. Don’t talk to me about hcol areas. I know better than most people here about costs, and I’ve been unemployed at two stretches of my career and had covid twice since 2020.

                1. blam*

                  I’ve had Covid twice since 2020 and I’m fine. Because I got lucky and didn’t die or end up long-term sick. That’s luck. I also work hard. I work hard AND have luck. See how that works?

                2. Observer*

                  So? Having covid twice is not the same thing as getting long covid, and being disabled by it.

                  Manhattan is a HCOL area, but the higher end rents have not gone up as much as the rents in formerly lower cost areas. (I’m in NY and have been paying attention to this stuff.)

                  It’s not your genius and “hard work” that kept you from losing your job in the last few years, especially during the early days.

                  The bottom line is that if you REALLY think that it’s all your doing, you are delusional. Because LOTS of very smart, very hard working people with reasonable planning were VERY badly hurt.

            3. Meow*

              So tone deaf. I worked hard too – really, really hard. I overcame barriers a lot of people can’t or don’t – I grew up in an abusive family who kicked me out the minute I graduated from high school. I watched my peers go on to nice colleges, get cars as gifts from their parents, study abroad, travel for spring break and all kinds of other luxuries that were literally impossible for me to fathom as I sat in a dirty, unsafe apartment complex scraping pennies together to eat and pay rent. Yes, I was able to work through it and go on to get a college degree, MBA and a 6 figure paying job – all of which required hard work – but I also had other privileges that others don’t. I went to school in a great public school district, I grew up in a middle class family that despite being abusive in many ways provided the basics of shelter and food, I’m white, I’m straight, I’m not disabled, my parents worked white collar jobs so I had some knowledge of norms, etc. – despite facing housing and food insecurity from 18-25 and the trauma that came with growing up in an abusive family, I actually had a lot going in my favor and it’s foolish to think that didn’t enable me to some degree to push forward and get myself to a better place.

              There were times when things were really, really bad financially for me and I was scared and anxious all the time, exhausted from working multiple jobs and going to school simultaneously, and yes – it upset me deeply to have to hear about friends and ex-classmates being able to do all the things I couldn’t. It was hard to be happy for them and hard to not be jealous of what sounded like a much less stressful, unsafe life. Being poor is emotionally draining. When you’re physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted it can be difficult to control your emotions – disappointment, anger, resentment, envy feel like big animals you can’t tackle because you’re out of energy. You’re not going to be at your best. It doesn’t excuse your actions if you decide to take it out on someone, but acting like it’s wrong to simply think or feel this way shows a total lack of empathy and understanding of the reality of poverty or near poverty.

          5. blah*

            Exactly +1 to @Eldritch Office Worker’s original comment in this thread.

            I just hope commenters who quickly judged OP can show some concern; especially considering housing. Renters are often one step away from losing their house – a basic need – and that’s a huge problem in our society! I’ve seen *SO* many times landlords decide to 1) Sell off the rental house to high earners when the town is getting popular 2) Not renew a lease to move back in themselves and tinker on the house for awhile 3) Not renew a lease to start an Air BnB 3) Not renew a lease to have family or significant others move in; 4) Not renew, and then increase the rent to cater to incoming students or families; etc. OP’s pain is related to maintaining baseline BASIC NEEDS while others have theirs met and then some. The whole “stop being immature,” sure, is true and I agree that OP should find ways to cope with her emotions at work, but if there’s not compassion behind that comment, it’s not a good look when the *context* is housing security.

            If I were Jane and found out my co-worker was mad at me for these things, I would demand respect, but also honestly agree with the facts and account for how I contributed to gentrification. It’s not mutually exclusive. Also, OP may be renting from a place due to not affording to buy, which now prices out the poorer renters who were looking at those rentals too. The whole cycle is very hard.

          6. Willow Pillow*

            Jane also settled down in a place that she could afford and built a life, though. Maybe she moved when things were gentifying, maybe she moved before that. I am more of a Jane at this point (although I grew up under the poverty line) and I live in the same city I was born and raised in.

    4. Sylvia*

      I agree 100%. I was surprised and disappointed to see some of the comments. I’ve also been in a similar situation, and it was exhausting. It’s really scary and stressful not to be able to pay your rent. Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps takes years, and you have to have access to “bootstraps” in the first place.

    5. L-squared*

      I think the question on whether or not you are wrong to feel a certain way is debatable. I’d argue that you shouldn’t feel negative ways toward someone just based on who they are without any actions. Disliking her based solely on her economic status is pretty bad IMO.

    6. Bess*

      Bootstraps are not the answer to poverty or social inequality, and in many circumstances are flimsy, broken or straight up don’t exist, but focusing on personal choice where it does exist is more productive than stewing over an individual whom you are blaming for an entire economic system’s problems. LW is in a deeply negative place to the point she might be jeopardizing her job performance/career and I think commenters are trying to pull her out of that space and direct her toward lines of thinking that will help her reframe her circumstances.

      LW is figuring herself as a victim of someone she fully manages. Staying in this mindset is a huge problem.

    7. Solidarity, OP*

      @Meow same. Lots of folks really are out here like “don’t get mad at the rich gentrifiers, they earned the right to price you out of your own community!” Yikes on bikes.

      1. L-squared*

        I guess my problem with this logic is the assumption that anyone who moves into a lower cost of living area is “rich” and that they are therefore “wrong”. Just because I can afford something nicer, if I’d rather have more room or anything like that, that doesn’t mean I’m some moustache twirling villain.

        1. blam*

          No one is talking about moustache twirling villains, but equally we’re not pretending that privilege doesn’t exist or that getting what you want just because you can will never have a negative impact on anyone else. To draw a different comparison, half my old toothbrushes are probably floating in the ocean for all eternity – I like to think I’m a good person, and the system I exist in definitely shapes my actions re. using and disposing of plastics, but none of that makes the turtles feel any better about it, you know?

    8. Despachito*

      I agree.

      And it is worth remembering that a lot of people feel what OP feels, because it is just human (although wrong), but not everyone will realize there is something off with it and ask for help, and I applaud OP for doing that.

      To have a safe place where you can voice your concerns and get sincere advice (including what is being said here – that to do what you are considering is not right) without being told you are a horrible person is very important, and I appreciate most of the commenters are able to provide that. It is possible to be firm yet kind, and IDK about other people but if I were to change my opinion on something I feel about strongly, it would only work if I could embrace the entire thing along with my own insecurities, acknowledge them and work with them. Just suppressing them and pretending they do not exist would not work.

      1. Meow*

        Yes, agreed it’s so important to have that safe space. Commiserating or having your emotions acknowledged can make such a huge difference in how someone processes emotions and moves forward. Shaming someone’s emotions tends to drive them further into those emotions (or shift into deep guilt or shame) rather than focusing on positive actions that can be taken to mitigate them.

  109. Zap R.*

    Guys, I’m gonna be honest: I think this is a fairly standard BEC situation and we’re all projecting our post-pandemic economic anxieties to a person we only know through the filter of OP’s experience.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I’m not sure which group of commenters this is directed at but really, yes and no.

      With any BEC situation, the advice would be the same. You cannot let your annoyance govern your management style.

      What I’m seeing most of the commenters react to is that this is an understandable situation in which to reach the BEC point. So they’re giving the OP empathy. I’m giving the OP empathy, even though I’ve been on both sides of this fence. Some of us are giving Jane empathy too, because there’s enough context clues to see that maybe it’s not all bright and rosy in Jane land.

      But the major undercurrent is that while yes, this is hard and the feelings are valid, you cannot manage someone through those feelings. Just like you can’t fire someone because they’re eating crackers at their desk and it’s bugging you. That’s the most important takeaway. The added flavor is just that yeah, maybe that bitch really is eating those crackers and other people are validating that.

  110. Jules the 3rd*

    Hey OP: It does suck to be where you are. Several of my friends have been priced out of my area, and with rents still going up, I know two more who are likely to have to move too. My family got lucky, buying a decade ago; we couldn’t afford our current house if we tried to buy it now.

    You have a choice: You can be mad at Jane, as the symbol of all of society’s ills, OR you can say “it’s not her, it’s this crappy capitalist system,” and maybe see past the symbol to possible solutions that will help you, and maybe some of your co-workers too.

    Some ideas:
    1) Ask the owner to give everyone raises. You can explain that with all the new people moving in, there’s going to be a lot of hiring, and you will lose employees if you don’t increase pay.
    2) Ask the owner about profit sharing. I worked retail at an independent used book store, got paid about average local wages, but then got 4% of the profit on top of that (manager). Regular employees got 2%. The owners still got 80%, and the employees loved it, especially when we added video games and textbooks – ideas that were brought to the owners by employees.
    3) Consider a career change. Take a year, learn as much as you can from Jane, AAM, and maybe take a couple of classes. An experienced people manager with an accounting or marketing class under their belt should have a lot of well-paying options, including non-retail management.

    (as I become more socialist in my old age, I’m also pushing my local govt to own and maintain low-income housing, instead of ‘private partnerships’, but that’s a long hard haul in the US south…)

  111. TootsNYC*

    I think our LW would be better served by establishing a greater distance between them.

    hanging out at her house and hearing her friends, etc., just makes all the resentment worse, and it also creates a feeling of fraternity–and that’s why fraternization can be such a problem in many organizations.

    It’s good to be able to maintain some distance as a manager.

    Throw in the income thing that’s at play. here, and it’s really a good idea to disconnect.

  112. LaLa*

    Ooof. Total sympathy for OP here since I literally just heard my boss talking with his coworker (exec levels) about how they were going to manage their retirement windfalls when the company merges/sells out in the next year. They each make mid six figures or more already and I make a salary where I can’t afford to replace my Clinton-era vehicle. I also live in an area where I’m slowly getting priced out of housing yet expensive homes are being built up everywhere. Income inequality really does create resentment when it is right in front of your face, you are living the proof that trickle down economics is bs, and you’re on the losing side. Can’t imagine feeling this way and also managing that person though, that will take some serious compartmentalization on your part, OP.

  113. Observer*

    were talking about how much their bigger-city salaries stretch here.

    This is actually a very important comment. It shows that these folks may be making really good salaries, but they are not wildly rich. Because those people don’t think in terms of “stretching” their salaries.

    It’s quite possible, even probable, that many of these people were not wildly enthusiastic about moving but were pretty much forced to do so due to finances. I own my house, but I don’t have the money to fund down payments for my kids. And they are all seriously looking at moving out of the city because housing has gotten so insanely expensive. Including the one with a Masters. And it’s going to be hard for them because it means, in all of these cases, the their kids are going to be far from both sets of grandparents.

    I realize that this doesn’t help too much – rent still has gone up and that’s a problem. I’m just trying to make the point that whatever the structural problems are at play here, the people here are not necessarily a bunch of 1% or even 10% with loads and loads of money glomming up all the available housing just because they can.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Right. I make a reasonable salary, in my super high COL area my dual-income-no-kids household is comfortable but not rich. I could also stretch my salary much farther in a lower COL area. This is how urban sprawl and suburban sprawl happen, we get priced out. The way inflation is going I’m going to be Jane soon, and I really am sorry to all the OPs out there but I have to live somewhere too.

  114. Vandy*

    Good advice Alison.

    On another note, we don’t know Jane’s situation! At the risk of speculating, maybe the bakery money is needed right now? Maybe the escape is needed? Maybe we look at her life and think she has it made because she’s making good money but there are other tragedies happening behind the scenes. Jealousy is easy but really “knowing” what other people are going through in their lives is hard. Treat Jane with some grace, OP. She might be looking at you and wishing she had your life.

  115. Escapee from Corporate Management*

    Hi OP. I’ve responded to some comments above, but here is what I hope is some useful advice as a manager in this situation:

    1. You have every right to your feelings, especially the financial frustration.
    2. As a manager, you will have employees who rub you the wrong way. It’s happened at every place I’ve worked. The question to ask: do they rub you the wrong way because they are (a) making your life miserable, (b) they are bad for the business, or (c) there is something outside the business that you don’t like?
    3. From what you have said, your dislike and resentment of Jane is centered around (c). In fact, your description is that she makes your life easier by being so flexible and that is also good for the business.
    4. What this means is that your desire to fire Jane would be extremely counterproductive. She is not a “brilliant jerk” that you could justify firing; you describe that you like her as a person. It would not improve your financial situation, but it would hurt the business and make your life harder as you lose someone who is, in fact, making your job easier.
    5. Which brings me to the key issue: managers need to learn to manage everyone. That is not something easy to learn on your own. Do you have someone you respect that can help you? Could it be the owner? A manager of another retail establishment that you know? A retiree who ran a business in the past. Ask for advice where you can. Maybe your chamber of commerce can connect you to someone who can be a mentor.
    6. Finally, and this may be hard, try to remove emotion from your managerial decisions. You don’t need to be a robot, but your first thought as a manager should be “is this good or bad for the business?” Keep asking yourself that. Use it as a mantra. Internalizing that framework will help you a lot!

    Good luck!

  116. SofiaDeo*

    Boy, this is tough. Emotions can be very difficult to manage. First, I would stop the socializing outside work. I know it’s often done in small towns, but being reminded of something painful (not being able to get a house now) is best avoided for now.

    I doubt she wants your job. She probably wants to get out of the house, meet people in her new town, do something useful. She may actually like the opportunity to pass on tips to you, mentoring another woman similar to herself, to succeed, without any interest At All in your job. She told the owner she was on a sabbatical, the owner probably figured it was worth it to have someone cover these difficult shifts for the next year or so, even though thus person wasn’t looking to stay long term. Win win for everyone.

    Consider being a bit more formal in your interactions, instead of buddy-buddy. Until you get ahold of your emotions, chit-chat about “what’s going on in your life” should probably minimized. You don’t want to possibly get triggered again, and perhaps seem angry/upset to her and others. Instead of asking things like “how was your weekend” or whatever, try to focus on work related comments for work chit chat. “Wow, don’t the donuts look especially yummy today” or “hmmmm, why do you think it’s been (especially slow) (especially busy)? Things that are more “work centric” as opposed to more personal comments. Since she is new to the area, perhaps if you decide to “mentor” HER in some of the aspects of your customers/community that she could not possibly know, may help you feel your contributions are worthy. You don’t need a Masters Degree to have good customer relations, observe what they like/dislike, and share this information.

    At some point, I think, you will be able to gain equilibrium. Every person has strengths as well as weaknesses. We know as adults that life isn’t fair, but also rail against it when it’s particularly overwhelming. Give yourself a little time and social distance from her, to appreciate your particular strengths once again. Instead of thinking that just because someone apparently has more money than you do right now, or has a different educational background, that they are somehow “better” or want your job.

  117. SleeplessKJ*

    Aside from everything Alison said, can I just point out that the appearance of wealth does not always equate to actual wealth. OP has zero idea of what her employee’s life looks like.

  118. noname12345678*

    I came into enough money to pay off a house in cash when my father died. It was an absolutely catastrophic event in my life that I would not want to wish on anyone. I would happily give all that money back if I could…. OP, I am sorry you are struggling financially, but we don’t always know why some people appear to be more wealthy than others, and sometimes it’s due to tragic circumstances that people wish they didn’t have.

  119. triplehiccup*

    Fight the good fight, OP – demand affordable housing from your elected officials or help people who are worse off than you.

  120. WorkingPeopleFirstAlways*

    This is probably the first time I’ve felt that your advice was somewhat off. The fact is, the new employee is part of a wave of people who have come to this small town and helped make life worse for the people who live there. Yes, these are systemic issues — but one way to try to combat them would be, in this case, to emphasize hiring already-local people, or even incomers who actually need the money, over the already-wealthy who do not. Class solidarity needs to become a thing again, over and above the needs of any business.

    1. Observer*

      Yeah, so here is the thing. Besides the fact that the OP doesn’t really know what Jane’s actual financial situation is, there is a very simple reason why the owner hired Jane.

      And that is because she is responsible and willing to do what locals won’t (or cannot) do. If there had been two equally good candidates, I would say to favor the local person / the person who doesn’t have a highly paid spouse. But that’s not the case here. And, aside from the ethical issues, it’s ridiculous to say that employers should not hire people who can do the work because they “don’t need” the job.

    2. Clobberin' Time*

      People keep saying this, but do we actually know that Jane was part of the “new wave”? The OP says that this is a problem affecting her town, but not that Jane is actually one of the newcomers.

      Also, doesn’t class solidarity mean uniting with your fellow workers? Are we only going to lock arms and protect the rights of workers whose paychecks fall below a certain level?

    3. SofiaDeo*

      The fact is, the owner has had problems filling the early/late shifts with people who already live there. OP mentioned this in the letter. You are suggesting that the local business owners let their businesses suffer, with the possibility of losing customers and income, if they are unable to staff with “locals” only? Alison wasn’t asked how to possibly mitigate systemic issues, the question was how a new manager can deal with/get past emotions raised in a particular situation.

      Gentrification is a huge problem, and I am not trying to negate anyones concerns. But Jane didn’t buy a mansion. For all we know, Jane also needs that bakery job money to pay her bills, too.

  121. Thankx*

    Jane is good at her job, pleasant to work with, flexible with her schedule, and helpful to other employees. And you want to fire her. Read that again.

    Thank you for calling this out, Alison.

    My Worst Ever Boss was allowed to get away with this awful behavior multiple times. We lost critically important, talented people who did not have the financial cushion that Jane is (apparently) lucky enough to have, all because of a manager who abused their power, and was allowed to continue to do so, despite the horrific cost.

    People like this need to be expelled from management, and for good.

  122. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

    OP – I think there are a few things you can do to help overcome the emotions you’re feeling that you (seem to) know are leading you to potentially terrible decisions:
    1. Lean in and get to know Jane. What kinds of things motivate her as a person? Ostensibly, if your information is correct, money isn’t the sole motivator for her because she’s earning a more modest wage at the bakery and chooses to take the shifts no one else wants, and does so with a lot of good qualities! Look at this as an opportunity to understand how to motivate the people around you.
    2. Try not to focus on the “why” Jane doesn’t need the wages she earns at the bakery, but instead think of how you’d react if you had an employee who had retired / paid off their home but wanted to work to be involved with the town, or have something to do, or just REALLY liked baked goods? Would you resent them taking the job if they weren’t struggling to pay their rent? If not, then you know that the crux of that issue is more around your town becoming a Zoom community for wealthier remote employees – and there are other things that you can do to work with your community about that. (If you don’t have the energy for that — that’s fine! It’s already a lot to manage your own work, your team, your kids and your household!)
    3. Try not to view someone with more educational credentials / managerial experience / different socioeconomic background as being in competition with you. You may have things you can learn from someone with more managerial experience (or, conversely, they may be shit managers!) but your employer chose you to be the manager for a reason. Hold onto that because it helps when we do naturally feel a bit insecure around people whose backgrounds and experiences are different than our own.
    4. When you’re feeling resentful of Jane’s comparative wealth, try to immediately call to mind a specific example of when she was very kind to a customer, or helped with a specific task you asked her to do, or volunteered to take a shift no one else wanted. This helps you reframe your thoughts away from the personal and back toward work.
    5. It’s totally ok if you need to pull back from any outside-work socializing with Jane, particularly if seeing her home life may (re)kindle resentment.

  123. Numbat*

    Obviously not the key take away here, but she sounds like a great person to have in your network for future jobs! Keep a positive relationship here, maybe she will hire you one day!

    1. Solidarity, OP*

      Jane is a director at a large tech company on sabbatical. OP is a manager at a bakery, and hasn’t indicated any interest in a tech job, or any other kind of career besides the one she has chosen.

      This idea that everyone should want to climb a corporate ladder to make as much money as possible is part of the problem with our capitalist system. Managing a bakery is a perfectly valid career choice! Maybe OP wants to open her own one day — maybe not. Either way, “Be nice to Jane because she’s successful and maybe she’ll give you a job!” is a pretty condescending response to this LW.

      1. Willow Pillow*

        The tech industry is often grueling and workers leave tech all the time – there’s a great brewpub where I live owned by former tech workers, for instance. Maybe Jane doesn’t want a career outside of tech, but she still has an entire network that could be a foot up for LW.

  124. Courageous cat*

    There is an astonishing amount of assumptions on this thread, particularly those talking about Jane. Some of you are literally saying she isn’t a good person, and yet the only thing you know about her is a few paragraphs from a person who’s biased against her. There’s a lot of assumptions that Jane = privilege = bad.

    Maybe Jane has been through significant trauma in her life. Maybe Jane has an invisible disability. Maybe Jane has experienced homophobia, racism. And maybe LW, while not making as much money, hasn’t experienced *any* of these things.

    The thing is, we don’t know. We is literally absolutely nothing here to tell us Jane is inherently privileged and therefore “bad” compared to OP. I live paycheck to paycheck and the most I can afford in my gentrifying city is a 500 sq ft apartment, but I still try not to assign inherent qualities to people based on… as little as this.

  125. Calamity Janine*

    oh jeez this is one of those situations where my heart breaks, because these are all very reasonable things in your life to be upset about. it’s just not at all the fault of the person being a lightning rod for those feelings.

    honestly i get it. if you have someone to focus on, it’s just so much easier to conceptualize the situation. somebody to blame feels nice! …because you get to fool yourself with the notion that it’s down to one variable, which you can control. but the truth is far more complex… far more nebulous… far more uncontrollable. our brains want to find an effect we can do something about. we just want to feel like it’s a problem we can solve.

    the illusion of agency is a hellova drug.

    this is all stuff to really sit down and work on through therapy. if you don’t have money immediately, cognitive behavioral therapy self-help workbooks are actually fairly effective, and there’s a few such courses online too. also, absolutely look into sliding scale clinics.

    on that note of unsolicited advice… i say this not to armchair diagnose. just as someone who goes “oh no, this feeling and state of mind seems awful familiar.” but. with that said.

    …it might be a great time to check in with your health care team and get screened for depression and anxiety.

    are the circumstances here really the fault of an unjust world? oh absolutely. however, it really helps to have brain chemistry not on the fritz while navigating it. i’m not saying you need magical happy pills. think of it more like a splint you’re wearing on a sore elbow. you still need to go to physical therapy and so on, but there’s zero shame in getting that outside assistance via medical treatment so that you don’t thrash around wrong in your sleep and wake up with your elbow worse than ever. it makes doing physical therapy much more, uh, doable lol, if you’re able to use that splint to break the self-reinforcing cycle of your elbow getting in a weird position and getting irritated over and over.

    i say this because i’ve been there done that. and honestly, one of the things depression (and anxiety – tbh they are so often paired together and have a lot of similar treatments lol) is that sometimes you aren’t weepy or dull. sometimes… it all comes out as anger. and, well, it’s not actually a good coping mechanism. it reinforces the misery. people think about this happening with depression almost solely like “too sad to get out of bed, instead i’ll cry all day”. sometimes it just pops out like my favourite quote from Charles Darwin, vaguely remembered, from his expedition journal: “today i am very stupid and hate everybody and everything.” the reason this is hitting you so hard could be that you’re depressed at how much you’ve had to struggle while others seem to be doing this effortlessly. and you’re anxious that you’re not actually cut out for business if someone working a job on sabbatical – which, if you’re already in an uncharitable mindset, can hit like someone just playing around for funsies instead of building a career like you – is seeming to be more competent than you are at this. being shown up by amateur hour is something that anxiety will absolutely grab on to and throttle you to death with. …not to mention the despairing voice of depression cataloguing all the nice things you thought you had locked down in your future, and wondering how that all became so unattainable, while also wondering if this is more proof you are inherently inferior somehow.

    it’s a pretty awful corner to be in. you need to deal with it a completely different way, mind you.

    but honestly, i think that you can actually get into a better mindset quite quickly. Alison has told you how to re-frame it, and why what you’re doing now needs to stop. this is a perfect opportunity to work towards a healthier headspace. it’s not going to be pleasant work, that’s true. but now is the time to address it – not just for your business, but for your very own self. it’s a mountain climb but you’ll get there and it will all be worth it so hard that your only regret is not doing this sooner.

    of course i’m sure this has been said already in the comments. or things have gone off the rails in another direction entirely. but hey, maybe this notion will be useful to someone reading it, if not the letter writer :)

  127. Burger Bob*

    To all the comments saying people are being too hard on OP: Just imagine if we were getting this same story from Jane’s perspective? Like what if Jane wrote in and said that her boss acknowledges that she is a terrific employee and has absolutely no complaints about her work but is nevertheless dreaming of firing her because she is jealous of her financial situation? We would be livid on Jane’s behalf, right? We would tell her all about how her boss is an unreasonable toxic boss, and we would probably be recommending that she hunt for a new job, etc. We would in no way be trying to excuse the boss’s attitude with, “Well, you know, gentrification is pretty tough.” Gentrification IS tough. I get why OP is jealous and feels frustrated and like life is unfair. But no, I don’t think commenters are being too hard on OP here. What OP expressed really is unkind and petty, and I hope the response is the wakeup call she needs to step way back from it.

  128. Best Letter Ever*

    This is the best letter I think I’ve ever seen from Alison. I don’t always agree with everything she says, but I wish I could send this letter to every bad boss I’ve ever come across. It needs to be mandatory reading for both maangers, and their own managers and HR departments.

    I am a firm believer in getting rid of bad managers, including the types who believe it is their right to get rid of any employee that they find threatening, annoying, frustrating, or whatever else.

    The one thing I would add to Alison’s letter is, do not lie about your employee to try and get rid of them. I have seen quite a few bosses try to get rid of extremely talented, qualified employees by inventing problems with that employee’s performance or conduct. It seemed to be based enitrely on ego or fear, or perhaps both. It did work in a couple of cases, and all it did was rob the organisation of really valuable people, and rob the employee of their living. I thought it was unforgivable. You can’t ever give power to people like that.

    As Alison says:

    You’re way off-base here — to the point that you’ve got to rein yourself in really quickly or remove yourself from the management job. Those are your only two choices.

    …[A]s a manager, you’ve got to be committed to recognizing when [you’re being irrational] and actively work to combat it…You can’t indulge those impulses. It’s management malpractice if you let yourself — it will make you a terrible manager and a terrible employee. That’s the path you’re on right now.

    Jane is good at her job, pleasant to work with, flexible with her schedule, and helpful to other employees. And you want to fire her. Read that again.

    …[I]f the ethics alone aren’t enough to convince you, consider your self-interest as well: How would you explain the firing to your own boss? How’s it going to look to your other employees? Hell, who’s going to cover those shifts no one else wants? It’s very likely that firing Jane would backfire on you in ways you’re not thinking about right now. If I managed you and I found out you fired an excellent employee for the reasons you’ve given here, you’d be gone within the week. Even if I just found out you were thinking about it, I’d be unlikely to keep you on because of what it says about your judgment and ability to do your job effectively.

    …The problem is that you’re not applying any critical thinking, or ethics, to those feelings at all — you’re just letting yourself indulge them, and when you do that in a job where you have power over other people’s lives, you can very quickly become a Terrible Human. As a manager, you have a moral and a professional obligation to recognize when you’re in danger of that happening and rein yourself in.

  129. Need a name*

    As a person facing the same types of severe financial stress, I feel great sympathy for OP.

    But as a manager, and as an employee who was once unlawfully dismissed from their job by a manager who was worried I wanted her job (I didn’t) because I had the qualification that was required to be able to do my job, I have to admit that this letter absolutely enraged me.

    Don’t EVER fire people unless you absolutely have to. Do not EVER abuse the power you have in the workplace as a manager, when you literally have control over their ability to earn money, including to get other jobs in the future. While this may not apply to Jane, the vast majority of the time, people work because they have to in order to buy the goods and resources they need to survive, including food and shelter.

    You have no idea what Jane’s life actually is, and even if she does truly have a picture-perfect life, you still have no right to do this to anyone. Because if you abuse your managerial powers to have Jane fired, and you are permitted to keep your own job despite it, it’s highly likely that you will do it again to someone else in the future, whether they have the financial cushion to survive it or not.

    Your feelings are valid, OP. But your feelings are not worth more than someone else’s career and financial independence. If you cannot separate your feelings and ego from managerial decisions, you do not belong in management.

  130. Office Gumby*

    Believe me, Jane needs this job. It’s not for the money, but for her sanity.
    She’s on sabbatical because she needs a break from her career. But she may be the kind of person who can’t sit at home doing nothing. We don’t know why she’s on sabbatical, but we do know there’s a reason. Whatever it is Jane is getting out of this job–self-worth, a sense of usefulness, even if just keeping her days busy without taxing her after a potential burnout–she needs it. Sometimes people need jobs for reasons other than money.
    Please stop letting jealously eat away at your soul. If Jane wasn’t financially secure, and if you did know that she took on this job for her sanity, would you be treating her the same way?

  131. TG*

    Wow you are so caught up in your own jealousy that you can’t be happy for someone else.

    Time to reflect and be thankful for what you DO have and not blame your employee for being successful and have money. She’s probably worked very hard for what she has earned also.

    She’s excellent at her job and trying to help you be a better manager. I think you need to work on being happy in life and worrying less about the material things.

  132. PoorasHell*

    Hey OP,

    I get it. I really really do. I too live in an area like you’re describing (any chance you’re also in Nova Scotia?) and it SUCKS. You’re not mad at Jane, though. You’re putting your feelings on her because she’s a representation of a symptom of a problem that has people on the brink of homelessness and I bet you feel pretty damn powerless but it’s not her fault.

    Take it from someone who has spent the last four days sobbing because despite the fact I’m working in my field, I have no debt, and I’m a very good money manager – I can’t afford to heat my home despite the fact I keep it at 15C just to keep the heating bill down.

    There is a real problem in areas like ours but it’s not the folks moving here who need the blame, it’s our elected representatives and capitalism itself. I mean, hell, the house I rent is owned by a couple from overseas who only use it two months a year and they won’t even buy a sub-pump to keep water out of the basement! The amount of empty houses in my town that are owned by folks who don’t live here and don’t rent them out is disgusting but they wouldn’t be able to do that if we had better laws about housing.

    We need better tenant laws, we need more affordable housing, and we need better community infrastructure: but those aren’t things someone like Jane – who is a member of your community now- can or is responsible for doing.

    Your anger is valid but your reaction is misplaced. I entreat you to direct it at your local government, where at least there’s a chance it might help create change instead of punishing someone who probably joined your community because they couldn’t afford where they were either.

    Love,

    PoorasHell

  133. L-squared*

    I’ve honestly found reading the responses here (and I haven’t read them all, because wow there are a lot) fascinating.

    The most interesting thing is how passionately some people are defending the LW because they sympathize with her or her situation. However, this one seems interesting because usually on this site, sympathizing with someone doesn’t mean ignoring problematic behavior, but here we are. And yes, many people will say there isn’t problematic behavior yet, but lets be real, there are PLENTY of situations where just the idea of firing someone for just living their life would have people up in arms. I get the idea of punching up vs. punching down. But really, all Jane has really done wrong is exist and have more money. And I guess she did the awful thing of inviting OP to a party. But if Jane was wealthier, and writing in about thinking about firing a great employee simply because they were in a lower financial situation, people would be LIVID. She wouldn’t get the benefit of the doubt of saying “she hasn’t done anything yet”, people would be calling her far worse names than we are seeing on this post.

    Also, there is a lot of fanfiction going on here by both sides to make themselves worse. Everything from assuming Jane is an awful gentrifier and is clearly independently wealthy, to assuming Jane has had some kind of health issue that made her need a break. But really, we don’t need to do that. The facts that OP have stated are plenty. All we need to know is Jane and her husband moved from a higher COL area to a lower one, and their money goes further. There really is nothing inherently wrong with that. People do this all the time when they have children. I live in a city. What you can pay for a 2 BR condo in the city, and what you get for that same price 15 miles outside of the city is vastly different. And when people have kids or just want more space, they do this. Nothing is wrong with it.

    OP feeling bad about her situation is valid. OP seeing Jane as the cause and personification of the situation and wanting to take it out on her is not. Its as simple as that.

    1. Solidarity, OP*

      <>

      I don’t think it’s that simple at all, which is what a lot of the OP-sympathetic comments here are trying to get across. First and foremost — OP can’t fire Jane. Everyone agrees on that.

      However — by virtue of moving to OP’s town and exercising her excess spending power (i.e. – buying a home OP can’t afford even though Jane’s bakery salary is comparable and probably even lower than OP’s as the manager), Jane is *contributing* to the problem of higher costs of living that are making life difficult for locals like OP. Is it all Jane’s fault? No! Is it a systemic problem and long-term outcome of rampant greed enabled by capitalism? Yes! Is it natural for OP to observe that Jane is contributing to a problem that affects her, and have some negative feelings about that? Yes.

      As long as OP manages Jane fairly and is reasonably polite to her (which pretty much everyone here is advising she Needs. To. Do! OP’s private feelings are valid, and she’s not wrong for having them.

      Side note: I also think many of the comments here have zoomed out to a broader discussion of the social dynamics around gentrification and income inequality. Everyone’s bringing their own personal experiences and biases around that topic to the table, which makes for some intense debate! But I also think it’s useful and valuable for people to be exposed to opinions and perspectives that challenge their own, so I super appreciate Alison for publishing this letter :)

      1. L-squared*

        So in your opinion, can no one ever move to a lower cost of living area without “contributing to a problem”? Is someone who would rather get more bang for their buck somehow “wrong” and deserving of scorn? What about when a family outgrows their home. Do they deserve to have people being resentful of them because they move someplace with more room? That is kind of the issue I have with some of this discourse. Its kind of like there is some idea that if you CAN afford more expensive places that you have some kind of moral obligation to live in those places. EVen if that isn’t what is best for you.

        1. Solidarity, OP*

          Respectfully, you’re painting with a very broad brush here, and demanding a one-size-fits all judgment on hypothetical scenarios. That’s not really a practical way to evaluate individual situations and circumstances that involve a LOT of very personal and variables.

          My opinion is that when a person’s actions negatively affect those around them, it is reasonable for those affected to have negative feelings toward the people causing them harm, **even if that harm is caused indirectly or unintentionally.**

          No, I’m not saying “no one can ever move to a lower cost of living area without ‘contributing to a problem.'” I am saying that if one does, as described in the LW’s account, it’s reasonable for those affected to resent them for it. I’m not actually saying Jane is obligated to do anything differently than she has done! I’m just saying that based on what we know, OP’s private feelings are valid. It seems like that deeply bothers a lot of commenters. I think it’s worth interrogating why that is.

          1. L-squared*

            I mean, I guess I just don’t even find those feelings valid. Those feelings very much have a “stay in your lane” vibe to them. The idea that people are totally valid to be upset with others based personal decisions of them doing what is in their own best interest just seems wild to me.

            I don’t resent people who make more money than I do just for existing in the same space as me. If I’m not making enough money, and someone makes more than me, my issue is with my company, not the others.

            1. Solidarity, OP*

              You are perfectly free to act in your own best interests — in fact, if you’re American, you have been strongly encouraged to do so by hundreds of years’ worth of cultural reverence for individualism and capitalism!

              Here’s the caveat: you still live in a society with other people. If you do what is in your own best interest without regard for how it affects other people, and acting in your personal best interests makes someone else’s life worse, they are not required to approve of that behavior, or to feel warmly towards you in spite of it. You cannot control how someone else feels about you.

              This seems like a very uncomfortable situation for lots of commenters to accept. And it seems like rather than sit with that discomfort as a natural outcome of one’s personal choices, these commenters object mightily to becoming aware of it at all (or, per the above comment, dismiss it as “invalid”). Those commenters are effectively objecting to acknowledging the *idea* that behaving in their own best interests could have unintended consequences for others. I think that’s fascinating, and gets at the root cause of a lot of systemic inequalities that we struggle with as a society.

              1. Boof*

                uhg I no one’s saying OP has to be in love with Jane, just that they’re not justified taking their feelings out on Jane. Do you agree that is not justified??

                1. Solidarity, OP*

                  Where did I say OP had the right to take her feelings out on Jane?

                  Here’s what I did say upthread:

                  “OP can’t fire Jane. Everyone agrees on that.”

                  “As long as OP manages Jane fairly and is reasonably polite to her (which pretty much everyone here is advising that she Needs. To. Do!) OP’s private feelings are valid, and she is not wrong for having them.”

                2. Boof*

                  I think maybe I was confusing who you were saying should sit with discomfort / what you meant by “feeling warmly” vs “acting warmly” towards commenters and towards Jane. I don’t think it’s ok to even make Jane uncomfortable at work or act coldly / hostile to Jane. OP can feel how they feel inside but really need to be careful they aren’t letting it show at work

        2. I'm Just Here For the Cats!*

          We also don’t even know why Jane and her family moved to the area. Could it be that it was closer to family, or had a great school, or maybe one of them grew up in the area and wanted to raise their kids there? Do we know what Jane’s husband does? What if he has an amazing job and his salary would pay for everything? Would OP still think this way of Jane since she wouldn’t “need” the job if her husband makes enough?

          I think OP needs to take a step back

    2. Escapee from Corporate Management*

      @L-squared, you are hitting all of the right points. We can debate all day the true nature of Jane’s financial situation, the benefits and evils of capitalism, the impact of gentrification, and how rude (or not) people were at Jane’s party. The problem? None of this helps OP. She is facing an immediate management problem and needs a management solution. Maybe it’s the engineer in me, but when I see an immediate problem (OP is jealous of Jane, would fire Jane if she could, and asked for how to manage the situation), my first reaction is to solve the immediate problem. As one of my professors once said, “when you see a fire, don’t spend precious time debating why it started. PUT OUT THE FIRE FIRST!”

    3. Boof*

      Honestly I think a lot of people who wouldn’t tolerate other ‘isms seem to find classism acceptable, as long as it’s “punching up”. I understand why and I’ve heard the arguments over and over that the power direction justifies it, but to me, judging/treating someone worse because of their socioeconomic status alone (and certainly because of any other characteristic like gender, race, etc even if it’s the one with more power) is crappy and one of my least favorite things about some left leaning rhetoric. Punching up is still punching and not actually addressing the root cause of anything, just taking out general frustrations on an individual.

      1. L-squared*

        I completely agree here. The idea that treating a well off person worse simply because they are well off is ok, but treating a poor person worse because they are poor makes you awful, is just ridiculous to me.

        As you say, punching up is still punching.

        1. Solidarity, OP*

          Um, where is anyone saying it’s ok to *treat* someone badly “simply because they are well-off?” I haven’t read all 1,000+ comments, but that feels like a mistaken and/or bad faith interpretation of this dialogue. People are saying that “poor” people are allowed to *feel* some type of negative way about rich people whose behavior creates economic hardship for them.

          Do you genuinely believe that resenting someone privately and actively treating them poorly are equivalent?

          1. L-squared*

            As I said in my initial comment. If a more well off person was even discussing firing someone because they were less off, people would be livid. So it doesn’t have to be an action, IMO.

            Resenting them privately and WANTING TO FIRE THEM are different things. You are acting like she didn’t actively ask about firing them already

            1. Solidarity, OP*

              I completely understand that OP expressed the desire to fire Jane. But she hasn’t done it, and she has been *universally* advised by this website to which she submitted an anonymous request for advice NOT TO DO IT. No one thinks that would be okay!

              So: unless OP *does* fire Jane, resenting her privately and wanting to fire her *are* two different things. OP is harboring those negative feelings — but she is rightfully keeping them to herself at work.

              I’ll leave you with this food for thought: If the result of your self-interested actions is that people who are harmed by your behavior (indirectly or unintentionally as it may be!) dislike you for it, that is not a moral failing on their part. But trying to dictate how they should or shouldn’t feel about you is peak fragility on yours.

              1. Solidarity, OP*

                Correcting typo – resenting her privately and wanting to fire her are NOT effectively two different things.

              2. Boof*

                My impression from the letter is the only reason OP hasn’t fired Jane is because their boss wouldn’t let them get away with it. Hope I’m wrong. I think that’s triggering a lot of the emphatic “no that’s not ok and it’s troubling you’re even at this point” responses.

          2. Boof*

            If someone can truly resent someone privately and never act on it, I guess that’s ok? Sounds tiresome to me, seems easier to try to refame the resentment away from an individual (or else address whatever behaviors are leading to it if reasonably possible ie if they talk about how far their salary goes just say “sorry, this is a painful topic to me because now my salary buys less due to the inflation” etc)

  134. Dr. Hyphem*

    A couple of helpful reframes:
    1. Jane is not over-qualified, she has qualifications for other roles, and those qualifications happen to be quite advanced. I have a PhD. I have no experience with Point of Sales, so I am not qualified to be a cashier. (I acknowledge that there are many cashier roles that do not require prior experience, so if I were to decide I wanted to work as a cashier, I could, and I’m a quick learner, but I digress). The reason you’re thinking of Jane as being overqualified is because a) she has qualifications at a level that many people do not, especially most people in her current role, and because these qualifications are associated with making more money, so we would assume that anyone would choose being at the director level in tech is more desirable than being a bakery cashier. If money were not a factor, that might not be true.

    2. Jane is not getting paid twice for her work at the bakery. The payment she gets during her sabbatical is related to her tech role. Yes, she’s on sabbatical, but getting paid through sabbatical (which others have noted is rare for non-academic sabbaticals) is likely part of her company’s retention strategy. Think of it this way–if Jane were taking early mornings and late nights because she was working her tech director job full time during the hours when she wasn’t at the bakery, she would be getting paid for that work, not “getting paid twice.” Jane has two jobs, the fact that she is on sabbatical is between her and her other employer.

  135. Newbee*

    OP, all you can do is manager her behavior at work, which sounds excellent. Do you want to fill in for all the odd shifts that she takes? Do you want to run the register? Focus on managing your store and not the lifestyle that Jane lives.
    Maybe she inherited money, maybe her husband makes a lot. Or maybe she left her job for medical/mental health reasons. Maybe it’s not a sabbatical, and she endured sexual harassment at her last job and got a huge settlement. Or maybe they are deeply in debt.
    Don’t derail yourself

  136. kiki*

    One hard thing about managing that a lot of folks don’t anticipate is that you have to be a fair manager to employees you don’t like or fundamentally disagree with. It’s really difficult! I sympathize with LW. Watching what’s happen to their town is really hard, but firing Jane will not actually fix any issue. In fact, it sounds like it would create more issues for LW and the bakery (since Jane is taking shifts nobody else wants, etc.). It seems like Jane has become a symbol of everything going wrong in LW’s town, but it’s important for LW to remember that Jane is just one person.

    For LW’s sake, I think it might be helpful to engage less with Jane outside of work, if possible. Focus on seeing Jane’s performance as an employee, try to expel thoughts of her finances and privileges.

    1. kiki*

      I want to add that managers and business owners can’t really be in the business of determining whether their employees really ~need~ the money or which of their employees need money more. That’s a big contributor to how businesses historically ended up with discriminatory pay discrepancies: paying Joe with two kids more for the same performance as Natalya who is single without kids or Jessica who has a working husband and “only needs the money to treat herself.”

  137. ColonelGateway*

    >also people who moved from the mainland to our small city

    Maybe I’m reading too much into this aside, but I live in a region of the US where there is a HUGE cultural divide between the “mainland” area and the more rural, surrounded-by-water-on-three-sides area. There is a lot of othering that happens, particularly when people in the rural part feel invaded by mainlanders. I wonder if there isn’t some of that going on here.

  138. Overit*

    OP: perhaps your anger is more properly directed to the owner who is not paying you enough to do more than scrape by.

  139. Zach*

    I’m in a somewhat similar situation as Jane, except the person/people managing me truly appreciate me and my contributions without seeming jealous. I was a software engineer who over time moved up to director of engineering, managing a department of ~70 engineers at a tech company. I made over 165k per year at that job but I wasn’t passionate about it. I saved and retired early (I’m 40) because I squirreled away money so that I wouldn’t have to work for a job I didn’t love.

    After a year and a half of volunteering I finally applied for a seasonal job at the humane society. I too worked the undesirable shifts, I was part time so I didn’t get benefits, but I loved working with animals. The new salary at the humane society (as part time) didn’t even cover my housing costs for each month but I loved the work. Jane in this story sounds like she just wanted to work in a bakery. It’s probably lower stakes and stress for her compared to her old position and that’s exactly what she wanted in the position. I’m also guessing she doesn’t take “work” home with her whereas she might have been likely to before. Jane doesn’t sound like she was flaunting anything to make anyone feel bad, she simply invited a coworker over to her house for a holiday party. She cannot control that her guests may have talked about money related lifestyle topics.

    I personally try not to talk about where I am financially with my new coworkers because we’re not close to the same place. I retired from the workforce, whereas most of my coworkers are just starting their adult working careers.

    She’s not after your job. She probably just loves working in a bakery and is okay doing work that may be perceived as “below her” since it’s quite literally ‘part of the job’. At my job I spend a lot of mornings shoveling racoon poop for longer than I would like to admit. It’s part of the job, but I also get to spend my mornings looking at a bunch of tired racoon faces waking up which makes it all worth it.

    I hope that the OP realizes the problem lies with her. Is she hiring only people that are at that “level” of their career, or is she hiring based on who will perform the job well/reliable and is generally going to be a positive influence on the business and those they interact with.

  140. yeah okay*

    OP, I completely understand why you feel the way you do.

    But do you know how I ended up homeless? When a manager who thought I was over-qualified perceived me to be a threat, and had me unlawfully fired because she made up a whole bunch of terrible lies about how I was supposedly terrible at my job.

    Apparently, she thought I was wealthy, too! I was not. I have a relatively common family name (not quite Smith, but close), and she assumed that I was related to a very wealthy family of the same name.

    Please, never abuse your power as a manager. Ever.

  141. Megan*

    This LW needs to back off a bit. First, Jane is not getting paid twice to work at your bakery. She is taking advantage of a benefit her other job offers and is then doing a second job at paid labor. Also, the “It’s not fair” bit makes me think you are not fit for management. That is something a toddler screams when they don’t get what they want, not from a rationally thinking manager.

    1. L-squared*

      I mean, we don’t even know that she is “rich”. She is a dual income no kids household that makes good money. I’d hardly say there is proof to know they are rich. If they were able to buy a nice house in a low COL area, again, that doesn’t necessarily mean rich.

      Or if you think it does, maybe you should define what “rich” means to you

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