is it weird to bring my toddler’s sippy cup to work, I don’t have time to answer a new hire’s questions, and more

by Alison Green on September 9, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Is it weird to bring my toddler’s sippy cup to work with me?

Is it weird to bring my toddler’s sippy cup into the office? I drop her off at daycare in the morning, and she brings her milk in the car. I don’t want it to get gross in the hot sun all day, so I bring her cup inside to rinse it out. When I get into the office, I drop my stuff off at my desk, then go rinse the cup in the kitchen and stick it back in my purse. Quick, no big deal. However, every time a coworker sees me with the cup, they (understandably) ask a confused “Why do you have a sippy cup?” On a few occasions, I’ve been stopped in the hall or pulled into a meeting on my way back to put the cup away, so then I’m left holding it while discussing an important work topic. And it’s hard to be taken seriously while holding a Tommee Tippee.

This seems like such a non-issue, but now I’ve started to feel a bit weird about it. Like by bringing the cup into the office, my mom-life is bleeding over into my work-life and I’m announcing to everyone that I’m *A Mom* (even though all of my coworkers know that I’m a mom). I think my question is not whether or not it’s appropriate, but from a professional standpoint, is there any reason I should stop bringing the cup into the office, or should I do something differently?

I’d love to say that you don’t need to give it another thought. In reality … you might. It depends on your office and, to some extent, your industry. If you work in an office or a field with a lot of sexism and/or you have to struggle to be taken seriously, the sippy cup might not be doing you any favors. It shouldn’t be that way — the fact that you care for a child should have nothing to do with how you’re seen at work — but in reality sometimes it does.

If you wanted to play it absolutely safe, I’d be more discreet with the cup. Dump the milk out outside and then leave the cup in your car, or at least put it in your purse when you’re going to and from the kitchen. Is this silly? Yes. Are there still real biases against women of young children in some offices/fields? Yes. Are those potentially intensified when you are visibly performing a child-related task in your office during a work day? Also yes.

On the other hand, if you don’t struggle to be taken seriously, change nothing. Especially if you’re senior-level and widely respected, it can be a social good to let your own behavior be a counterweight to problematic norms.

2. I don’t have time to answer a new employee’s questions

I’m an employee on a team that, due to a series of unexpected departures, is currently very understaffed. Our office is in a constant state of panic with everyone rushing around to get projects done by deadline. Our manager, Diane, oversees several teams across multiple offices and is always in meetings, so she doesn’t have much time to help us and is very hard to reach. But she and other higher-ups have been desperate to get more people onto our team ASAP, and so a few months ago they hired a brand new graduate, Todd, with no experience in our field other than summer internships. (The rest of us have been on the job a decade-plus.)

Diane initially assigned one of our team members, Vincent, to train Todd and answer his questions. However, Vincent ended up leaving a few weeks later due to an unexpected life event. Diane has not yet assigned someone else to train Todd, and now that we are scrambling to cover Vincent’s projects, the rest of us REALLY do not have the bandwidth to take on training duties. But I happen to sit across from Todd, so he is now directing all of his questions to me. And so now, in addition to the huge amount of my own work, I am dealing with a steady stream of questions from Todd. These are not procedural or factual questions that I can just ask him to look up — they tend to be specific to whatever project he is working on, such as “Do you know why the numbers in this column don’t add up?” or “Does this sentence I wrote make sense?” I often have to go over to his computer and examine his work in order to give a confident answer, and it starts to take up a decent amount of time.

I tried to help as much as I could in the beginning, because I can tell that Todd is a hard worker who is trying hard to learn. I also don’t want him to be fired, because we do need the help! But the questions are not abating as time goes on, and I feel like they are starting to add an unsustainable amount of stress to my workload, particularly when we are in crunch time on deadlines.

Is this something I should address with Diane — and if so, what would be the best way to do that? Or is it Todd I should be talking to?

Talk to Diane. Estimate how much time you’re spending per week helping Todd and the impact it’s having on your workload, and tell Diane that you’re not able to be Todd’s main trainer unless other projects are taken off your plate to give you time for it.

Since Diane is hard to reach, you could put this in an email.

If her answer is that there’s no on else to help and you’ll have to make do, let her know that you can either help Todd or do XYZ in the coming weeks, and ask her which to prioritize. If she sticks to “just get it all done,” then say, “I’ll do what I can, but if we’re not moving any deadlines I’m going to need to prioritize those, which means I won’t have time to give Todd as much help as he’s asking for.” (In other words, treat this like you should any unrealistic workload problem.) Then explain the situation to Todd and suggest he speak with Diane himself about getting what he needs.

Related:
I’ve been overworked for months and my manager won’t help

3. Is wet hair unprofessional?

I saw a discussion today about whether it’s unprofessional to have wet hair at work, with the consensus being that it is and reflects badly on employees. But some were arguing that this is racist and/or sexist because curly and long hair takes longer to dry and generally that hair will belong to women and/or people of color. (There was also a discussion about whether it’s reasonable to provide gym and showering facilities for use before work or over lunch but then expect people to dry their hair before coming back to work.) What are your thoughts?

It depends on what your particular hair looks like when it’s wet. For example, I have long, straight hair that when wet requires three hours to stop looking like I just got out of the pool. But not every hair type does that (especially not curly hair). If you don’t look like a drowned rat when your hair is wet, it’s typically going to be fine. If it’s a borderline case, it’ll help to put it up or tie it back.

I can’t see how it’s unreasonable to provide gym and shower facilities but still expect people to return to work looking professional. Yes, for some people that will mean blowing their hair dry or tying it back, but for many people it won’t. (And for many of the people who need to, the convenience of having those facilities on-site makes it worth it.)

4. My coworker doesn’t want our boss to know about his mistakes

I am on a small team in a medium-sized, fast-growing company. There have been discussions around promoting me into a leadership role and reorganizing our team to have one or more junior colleagues report to me directly. This is great and I am excited for the opportunity if or when it happens.

Currently my role is similar to quality review over the work that the others on the team produce. The issues I identify are not generally performance-related; they are typically mistakes made due to limitations in the process and/or tools. Notification to the individual and manager, when appropriate, is factual and not personal (example: “found issue X, recommend Y to resolve”). This will continue in the new team structure.

My.question involves a concerning behavior of one person on the team who will likely report to me in the future. He gets defensive if our current manager is copied or notified for any negative issue. Most issues are dealt with individually, but some require guidance from our manager. When this happens, my colleague gets upset and says “(manager) doesn’t need to know.” This pushback makes me wary of trusting them on my team if the restructure happens as planned. And regardless of any restructure, I want to shut this behavior down.

I have already tried explaining to him that these reports are not personal and do not reflect on his performance, but I don’t think the message is being received.

The next time he says that your manager doesn’t need to know about something, reply with, “Jane expects me to loop her in on this type of thing because of X.” If it’s true you could add, “If you’re worried about it reflecting on you, I can tell you this isn’t a big deal — everyone on the team has corrections like this, it’s routine and expected, and you don’t have more than anyone else.” (Again, only say that if that’s true.)

If you do become his manager, it’ll be useful to know that he approaches mistakes this way. It means you may have to do more digging about what’s really going on in his area, won’t necessarily be able to take his word for things, and can’t assume he’ll alert you if something goes wrong. That’s super useful to start off knowing, rather than finding it out down the road. It could also be something you address with him once you’re his boss, possibly framed as, “I know you worried in the past about Jane hearing about X or Y. I want to talk to you about how I approach mistakes and how I’d like you to think of them and communicate about them.”

5. People are annoyed with my backlog, but I have a medical accommodation

I’ve been working at a fully remote job for six months. I’m an individual contributor who gets assigned X number of a certain type of project every month. While clients do need these delivered promptly, this isn’t a vital business function, nor does it save lives. About three months ago, a chronic pain condition I have started getting worse. About three weeks ago, when it became clear that I was really behind with no improvement in sight, I told my boss Tony. I was surprised at how quickly and easily my company agreed to an ADA accommodation of a reduced workload for several months while I adjust treatments with my doctor. It really made me feel positively about my company.

Well, we’re now into the first month of my reduced workload, but I’m still digging out from last month. I’ve been upfront with Tony about how far I’m behind and gave him a realistic timeline for getting it done. He didn’t ask any follow-up questions. My grandboss Laila told me to get my work done as soon as I could, but also seemed understanding that I’m working at a much reduced pace.

When I send a project out to the client, another department at my company is notified. There have been a few annoyed emails from this department, including one with many manager cced. They have every right to be testy — these clients paid for services and they should get them on time. But there’s only so much I can do right now. I’m getting a bit frustrated that Tony or Laila didn’t say anything to this department. I understand they can’t talk about my accommodation, but I would have thought they’d let them know that things will be coming out late and they’re aware of the situation. Am I being too extra if I ask Tony to say something? I really don’t want my reputation tanked with this department and I don’t want to wreck client relationships.

No, ask Tony to say something! Ideally he’d explain to the other department that there are extenuating circumstances slowing things down and X type of work will be delayed for roughly Y months. What to say to clients is trickier and depends on details I don’t have, but Tony should be working with you on messaging about that too.

Since that’s not happening, explain to Tony that you’ve noticed people seem annoyed and you think it would help to offer context, and ask him to help you let people know what’s going on so it’s clear to them that he’s in the loop and you’re not just dropping the ball.

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{ 511 comments }

{ 511 comments… read them below }

  1. Daria grace*

    #1 it’s weird that your co-workers care (I doubt I’d even notice before my coffee kicked in) but alas some people are like that. If you’d rather not risk creating a mess in your purse, you should be able to find a lunch box, lunch bag or other non-descript food carrying thing to get it to the kitchen without being noticed

    1. Maddie Hatter*

      Yeah I recommend just stashing it in a purse or somewhere until lunch or some other time when it can be rinsed it out with hopefully fewer people watching. I would *never* leave it in the car, it won’t take long before it becomes so disgusting it’ll have to be tossed. But it’ll last indoors a few hours without going rancid. I speak from experience lol

      1. Cmdrshprd*

        I think people comment on it not because they think it is unprofessional, but just because it seems out of the ordinary, I am imagining a brightly colored distinctive baby/toddler sippy cup. So I think while maybe annoying to OP it might not really be a big deal, but it just seems like it because it’s the 10th time OP has heard someone comment, but to each person it might be only the first time they have seen the sippy cup.

        To OPs other point:

        “On a few occasions, I’ve been stopped in the hall or pulled into a meeting on my way back to put the cup away, so then I’m left holding it while discussing an important work topic. ”

        I would say that OP1 if someone tries to pull you in you can say give me a minute I have to put something away/get something from my office, and take the sippy cup back, and then return to the person/conversation/meeting. I think you can even do this with superiors/bosses. Asking for 30/45 seconds to get ready/prepped is not unreasonable. Ive frequently said “hold that thought/give me a minute, to get a pen and paper to take notes.” or even just to go put my coffee mug/tumbler (aka adult sippy cup) down on my desk.

        So TLDR even when stopped suddenly it is okay to take time to finish what you were doing aka putting the sippy cup back/down.

        1. KateM*

          And OP finishing their previous action (washing a sippy cup) before starting a new one (meeting) may additionally help people to take her more seriously.

          1. Not Alison*

            Another idea is to have a reusable bottle of water in your car and when you get there dump the milk out on the ground and then rinse the cup with the water. No one needs to see the cup.

            1. Lenora Rose*

              Dumping milk on the ground doesn’t make the milk disappear; imagine that on a series of hot dry days.

              I doubt that the existence of a clean sippy cup would be less professional than “Makes the parking lot stink of sour milk.”

              1. Lucky Lucy*

                It does, though, right? It would soak into dirt or grass, or on pavement the sun would evaporate it… I profoundly doubt a small amount of remnant milk, rinsed by water, poured outside would leave ANY effect, let alone a noticeable one.

          2. Smithy*

            I do think that this is where the optics issue may be having a bit of a multiplier effect.

            Someone who comes into the office with “less expected” items often get questions – I’m particularly thinking of sports equipment. And especially less common ones, for instance if I saw a colleague walking in the office carrying pointe shoes or a hurling stick that would end up being a conversation starter for me. Not that being engaged in physical activity before/after work is at all unprofessional – but it would be an easy add on to a basic hello/good morning. However, if someone ends up taking those items into a work meeting (as they haven’t had time to leave them at their desk), it more reflects a hectic start to the day more so than the item.

            If someone is regularly coming to their 9am meetings with sporting equipment, at some point is risks becoming a reflection of someone needing to try to come in earlier or starting the meeting later (depending on that person’s seniority).

            Now the OP may be arriving well before those initial meetings and just getting sucked into so many work conversations, but I do think that part of the out is to ask for the minutes needed to drop all items at their desk and join the workplace conversation. I’m not equating taking a sippy cup to a meeting with showing up in cycling gear – but it is often a striking image to see someone in an office in their cycling spandex. And if someone was getting sucked into so many conversations that it meant they showed up to meetings in that clothing – then the fix would ultimately be similar. Find ways to build in more time to transition from home life to work life when you first arrive to the office.

            1. Database Developer Dude*

              I wish I had that luxury. My sporting equipment -never- comes to the office with me, because it can be classified as weaponry….I’m a taekwondo black belt and use a bo.

            2. PurpleShark*

              Pretty sure there was one on here where someone’s sweaty workout gear was being air-dried on the door handle of an office. That was pretty gross and way more impactful than a sippy cup.

        2. WheresMyPen*

          Still don’t get why people have to comment on it. If I see an adult walking into work with a sippy cup, I’d assume they have a child and they’ve just come from caring for that child. Unless I see them drinking from it, I don’t think it really needs mentioning.

          1. WheresMyPen*

            In fact, even if I do see them drinking from it, it’s probably none of my business as for all I know, they have some kind of disability that requires a special type of cup. My dad had Parkinson’s and struggled to hold a normal mug, so had a sippy cup (though admittedly not a brightly coloured one).

            1. Eulerian*

              I sometimes sip from my daughter’s, just to see what it’s like.

              Even at work – though admittedly I work from home.

            2. MigraineMonth*

              A sippy cup is also recommended after certain GI surgeries when you’re only supposed to take “sips” of liquid.

            3. Orv*

              This reminds me of a time I was a at a bar, and one of the locals drinking there spilled his beer. The waitress brought him another one in a sippy cup, which got a great reaction from the rest of the table.

          2. Allonge*

            It’s not that I disagree, but it seems that some people do think it’s something to mention, so this is not that useful to OP.

          3. Bossy*

            Yeah this reminds me of how I’ve seen a few large men carrying tiny pink backpacks lately, do a double take, and the decide it’s theirs child’s lol

            1. Elizabeth West*

              I wouldn’t even care if it was theirs. You do you, bro. This is very low on my meter of things to worry about.

              1. Cmdrshprd*

                I think noticing something is not the same as worrying/caring about it. Noticing something that seems out of the ordinary is understandable. Saying something to a stranger about it would be weird. But I think noticing something out of the ordinary with your coworker and commenting on it would not be weird.

                If I see a coworker walk in with a ball of yarn, or picnic basket, etc… I am likely going to mention/ask about it. Good morning, how come you have x item with you have you started knitting/crocheting on the commute, Are you going to a potluck/picnic after work?

                I wouldn’t ask it of strangers or coworkers I don’t know very well or don’t really talk to.

            2. MigraineMonth*

              A large man with a tiny dog fills me with joy. I cannot explain it; I don’t even like tiny dogs much.

            3. Freya*

              My husband takes his gym gear to work in a pink backpack with a cute face on it, complete with ears. Not only did it only cost us $5 after the back to school sales, but it never ever gets accidentally taken (apparently 95% of the bags in the gym at his work are black and look very similar to each other).

          4. The Original K.*

            Exactly. If I noticed at all, I’d assume it was a kid’s. I’d think about it for no more than two seconds, and I wouldn’t comment.

          5. CommanderBanana*

            Right? Maybe my perspective is skewed because I’ve worked with a lot of people who happened to have toddlers, and it was not at all unusual for them to have toddler accoutrements in their totes or offices or whatever. Toddlers tend to leave a trail of things behind them.

          6. Dust Bunny*

            Yeah, this. Like, I might–and that’s a big might–notice but I cannot imagine caring enough to comment on it. None of my current coworkers even have small children and I still don’t think I’d care.

          7. BethDH*

            It’s not clear to me that multiple people HAVE commented! It seems like one person repeatedly commenting, and OP then feeling self-conscious about it when holding it during hallway conversations and wondering if these other people are judging her similarly.
            To me that says you have one judgy person and a bunch of people who probably don’t care.

          8. Turquoisecow*

            I think they’re just making small talk. They see a coworker, say hi, want to say something else…oh, sippy cup, that’s something to comment on. If she had a coffee mug they might comment on that, “fueling up for the day?”

            With some people there might be some judgement about it (is she really focusing on work or is this constant reminder of her kid an issue?) but I would bet 99% of people are just making a comment on something and not thinking about it.

            1. TootsNYC*

              could be. Maybe they’re expecting, “Oh, I drop my kid off at daycare on my way here,” and the a convo about daycare vs. nannies at home, etc.”

              1. a clockwork lemon*

                This is my assumption. It’s either a phenomenally passive-aggressive environment or OP is reading too much into a casual attempt at small talk, no different than when my coworkers comment on my (objectively ridiculous) hot pink rhinestone-embossed travel mug. Very few adults in a functioning workplace would see a colleague holding a sippy cup and assume that the adult in question was using it for themselves.

          9. Carmina*

            Yes I find this confusing as well. The only way I could see myself commenting on such a thing would be if, for some reason, I had previously believed this colleague did not have a child (not just didn’t know, as otherwise I would just file this under “new information: seems Jane has a young child I was not previously aware of” – actively believed otherwise.) So unless the LW1 was actively concealing it before, which does not sound like it is the case, this is somewhat baffling.

            I guess this office just has a very different culture than any I’ve ever seen.

            1. JustaTech*

              Many years ago I noticed a slightly more senior coworker walking back from the lunchroom to her office with her usual breakfast, and a set of children’s construction-themed utensils.
              “Are we out of forks?” I asked, because why else would she be using a bulldozer fork?
              She looked at me, looked at her hand and laughed. “Oh, those! No, they’re from [kid]’s breakfast, I just washed them.”

              Now I have a sippy cup sitting on my side table in my office so I can give my toddler water when I pick him up from school.

          11. Momma Bear*

            I agree. I think sometimes people just feel the need to comment on everything. I’d assume there was a reason and not mention anything about it. I don’t think OP needs to feel embarrassed, but they might need to ask for a moment instead of immediately going to the meeting – drop the cup at the desk, pick up a notepad, be ready to talk. I bet there are repeat offenders on these impromptu meetings and maybe that would get them to either involve OP properly in the first place or stop doing it.

          12. Waiting on the bus*

            I would be less likely to comment if I did see them drink from it!

            If they are just holding it/rinsing it out then it’s just a bit of small talk before diving into the work topics. If they are drinking from it… well, my first thought when you mentioned it was kink or medical condition, neither of which are things I’ll be asking about at work, so I’d just pretend I didn’t see.

            OP, if you’re worried about the optics, I’d just put the sippy cup in a small opaque plastic bag or tote bag and take the whole bag into the kitchen when you rinse it out. That way you’re just holding a random bag in your hand when someone stops you for a work chat.

          14. learnedthehardway*

            Agreed – it’s a sippy cup, ergo the person has a child. Not rocket science.

            Personally, I would continue on as normal, and make the point that you have a child who has milk on the way to daycare, and milk goes bad and stinks up your car.

            If necessary, turn it back on the person and ask them why this bothers them so much.

        3. Phil*

          “I think people comment on it not because they think it is unprofessional, but just because it seems out of the ordinary, I am imagining a brightly colored distinctive baby/toddler sippy cup.”

          Clearly there’s a market for a line of sippy cups designed to avoid this problem, in conservative, office-appropriate colorways like beige and navy.

          2. Wendy Darling*

            Also there’s definitely a market for cups that prevent me from dumping my morning coffee on my shirt before I even get to the office.

        4. Lana Kane*

          “I think people comment on it not because they think it is unprofessional, but just because it seems out of the ordinary”

          Based on past experience I think this is likely it. When my son was a toddler he had a Thomas the Tank Engine phase. He had a plastic Thomas plate that I took to work with me once the phase passed, since I needed a plate at my office, so why waste this one? I definitely got a few amused comments, but when I said “yep, my kid won’t use this plate anymore so I’m putting it to good use rather than tossing it”, I got no pushback or anything even though in my case I was actually using a kid’s plate! I see how that differs from a sippy cup, but I really don’t think telling people you’re just washing your kid’s cup is likely to be a professionalism/optics issue. I think people are just noticing it because it’s discordant with what they expect to see in an office.

      2. Artemesia*

        She could keep a bottle of water in the car and quickly rinse it out then run it through the dishwasher in the evening. Or keep it in her purse or a bag — rather than carrying it through the halls. I agree with Alison that while it should not be a thing, it might be. I have seen women dissed for far less.

    2. Ali*

      Also…they might not care but are just looking for a talking point- there are only so many times I can ask people about their weekends in small talk situations.

      I get that motherhood is a loaded topic for many people and so would hope that I would be mindful enough to steer away from saying something like that- but it might be genuine confusion/curiosity from your coworkers with no judgment loaded behind it.

      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah unfortunately people *are* likely to grab hold of whatever’s in front of them when they’re casting around for a conversational bid – I know I’ve been there – and what they really mean is “I acknowledge you, fellow human” but there’s a bunch of ways it can land wrong. I try to have grace both with others and myself but I know how annoying it is when the ten thousandth person lands on the same dang thing.

      2. Ally McBeal*

        Agree. An exec at my company walked into the kitchen today while I was heating my lunch and his opening line was “waiting for the microwave?” I was standing directly in front of the microwave, which was visibly running. Some people just have no idea how to start a small-talk conversation.

    3. Collaterlie Sisters*

      Perhaps they don’t care so much, but rather it’s that walking around with a baby’s cup makes them wonder ‘where’s the baby?’ in the same way you’d wonder ‘where’s the dog?’ If she were carrying a lead.
      OP1 could consider a solid colour 360 cup if it works for her daughter. It doesn’t look like a baby cup as much as others do.

      1. AcademiaNut*

        I’d be wondering how many times they’d split coffee on their keyboard to warrant a sippy cup.

        1. can we please not*

          I get that this is a joke, but see above re. a person with Parkinson’s. I also have a medical condition that also sometimes requires two hands, or a straw in places I know it looks weird, or specialized utensils to help cancel out the vibrations. And if I get to the point where I need sippy cup or similar I will use the d*amn thing, and I would already be self-conscious about it without people thinking it’s funny.

          1. JSPA*

            It’s not necessarily a joke, though.

            Spilling is bad for electronics. Whatever the reason for higher spill risk, creative fixes are worth noting–before you need them.

            I used my travel mug through months of non-surgically-addressed, severe carpal tunnel. If I’d had a sippy cup, I’d absolutely have used that, too.

            Granted, I FELT like a klutz. But that was my projection; people were not mocking me for dropping things.

          1. Cmdrshprd*

            I 100% agree, I don’t even trust myself with cups/mugs with any kind of open section/lid. I only use cups/mugs that have a seal that I open/close every time I take a drink. I have learned from experience I need spill proof sippy cups.

          2. JustaTech*

            And in a real pinch a coffee cup with a lid can be a decent stand in for a sippy cup (for an older toddler, not a baby).
            Not with coffee in it, of course!

      2. TheBunny*

        I suspect you are correct.

        Things are more noticeable when they seem out of place/context and it’s possible that’s what people are reacting to and not the cup itself.

      3. Allonge*

        This is what I would think – it’s nothing wrong but it’s incongruous and in a way that makes you wonder if the baby is around.

        OP, could you have a bag for the cup or use one of these lunch carrier things to put it in? I would not want to put a milk-containing cup in my handbag but there are options.

      4. Myrin*

        I think you’re correct but I also think it’s weird that they apparently can’t extrapolate from the situation – if I saw a coworker with a sippy cup, I’d be thinking “ah, something for their baby” and then promptly ignore it, not wondering “where’s the baby?” because the baby is clearly not there and I don’t need to obtain any deeper knowledge than that.

        1. KateM*

          Do they think it possible that OP would bring their toddler to work, and if so then why do they think so?

        2. Allonge*

          Look – most likely they can extrapolate, but people also get distracted by things they don’t necessarly control well.

          If OP can carry the sippy cup around and is worried this will become an issue, they can add a bag for it to the list of things they carry around.

          1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

            I like the lightweight foldable nylon tote/shopping bags that have their own carrying pouch attached.

        3. Turquoisecow*

          I work remotely but when I go to my office people ask how my kid is (she’s 4 now) and sometimes want to see a recent photo so if I walked in with a sippy cup (which I wouldn’t since I work remote but if the situation was different) they might see the cup and wonder if my kid was nearby and I was bringing them a drink or something (and then they’d probably want to see the kid) because it’s not common to see adults with kid stuff and no kid.

          I think it’s more just the coworkers commenting on something unusual.

          1. TootsNYC*

            not a bad point—and they brain goes, “She has a sippy cup. Kids use sippy cups. Does she have a sippy cup because the kid is here? I wanna see the kid!” and out comes, “Why do you have a sippy cup?”

    4. Observer*

      If you’d rather not risk creating a mess in your purse, you should be able to find a lunch box, lunch bag or other non-descript food carrying thing to get it to the kitchen without being noticed

      It’s probably easier to put it into something like a zip-lock baggie and put that in your purse.

      I agree that it’s weird that anyone notices and cares enough to ask. But, if you think it does affect how someone looks at you, this is probably your best bet.

      1. Margaret Cavendish*

        To me, a ziplock bag is Next Level parenting. Like they’re the easiest things in the world, but if I were in OP’s position I would regularly leave the sippy cup in the car or end up with a purse full of milk. So if I saw her walking into the office with a sippy cup in a ziplock bag, my first thought would be that this is a person who clearly has her shit together and I would be in awe of her organizational skills.

        My kids are in high school now, so I might not be awed any more. But I would definitely still have the impression that OP is competent and organized in all the things!

        1. Miss Muffet*

          My kids are in HS/College and I still gawk in amazement at these next-level little-kid parents, because I was completely NOT one of those and just barely made it through. I mean, I would have been the one leaving the sippy in my car all the time. I am just so much better at the teen parenting than I ever was with littles! (And so grateful for the mom-of-4 that is one of the other sports parents with me that fed me with some of her kid-snacks at a meet when I was hungry and nothing was available)

      2. Nonanon*

        Ohhhh this brought back memories. I did summer camps at local universities, and we were allowed to use campus stores for snacks and whatnot. One particularly favored soda (Cheerwine, god I miss it) was only sold in glass bottles. This was a problem, as the region tended to be humid and the condensation around the bottles made them difficult to hold. Our solution? Wrap paper bags around the bottles. The counselors were… LESS than thrilled.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          Gah, I love Cheerwine. A former Southern bf introduced me to it. I was shocked to find it sitting on a grocery store shelf — in Massachusetts!

          Only the glass bottles, mind you. The plastic ones make it taste weird.

    6. JSPA*

      And in any case, don’t leave it in your car unwashed! The smell will never fully leave, according to your child’s nose.

      Pour out the milk, close it up, bring it in, wash it, put it either in a ziplock (reused for this purpose) or in an opaque plastic bag. You then have no visible sippy cup, in case of emergency meetings. The clean cup can dry at your desk or in your car (later).

    7. Melisande*

      Yes I’d say have a bag or lunch box for it. But if anyone asks just say briskly “It’s for my kid” and change the topic to something work-appropriate. Or you could look puzzled at the question and say “what do you mean?” – you’re normal, they’re the weird ones for asking.

      1. Happy meal with extra happy*

        I disagree with your second option. Asking why someone has a sippy cup in a work place is not inherently rude or weird and most likely just idle curiosity, so if OP pushed back on it that strongly, that would be weird.

      2. Rayray*

        What is it with this place and the suggestions to make a puzzled expression and act as if you’ve never interacted with another human being? In the hear of 2024 let’s put the “puzzled expression”advice to rest.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          “Return awkwardness to sender” is pretty spot on social advice. Similar to making someone explain what’s funny about an offensive joke or giving a grey rocking. It breaks the expected social dialogue and undercuts inappropriate behavior. In 2024 it remains a pretty effective strategy for in-the-moment reactions.

          1. Alpacas Are Not Dairy Animals*

            In general yeah, but a neutral question about an unexpected object is entirely benign smalltalk 90 percent of the time. In this case LW would be creating more awkwardness than they’re returning.

          2. Tippy*

            Is it really though? Because the times I’ve seen it in practice it’s only resulted in the person doing it look like an idiot. As a few others have said a weird comment about a sippy cup is so …… small that reacting to it the same way someone would use a derogatory slur is a bit ridiculous.

        2. MigraineMonth*

          I think there’s a world of difference between asking someone to explain why the racist dog-whistle joke is funny or what a “circle jerk” is when they don’t want to, and reacting to anything that approaches your boundaries with faux bewilderment.

          The first is intended to embarrass the person making racist/sexist comments. The latter is just multiplying the awkward and doesn’t actually set a boundary.

        4. Mary*

          Agreed. Wasn’t there even a letter update where the OP tried doing that to someone who told racist jokes, and it totally backfired?

    8. RabbitRabbit*

      Or even just a plain plastic shopping bag or something along those lines, to hide the “maybe there is a child in the office” flag.

      I could see being concerned that if a colleague had an obvious child’s cup in hand that they might possibly have brought a sick child to work, or possibly that their daycare had fallen through for another reason.

    9. CommanderBanana*

      I’m confused by the LW’s coworker’s confusion – I’m assuming they know she has a toddler, so why would they be asking why she’s carrying a sippy cup? I would find it incredibly annoying if the same coworker kept asking me that. It’s not like she’s walking in carrying an exotic bird.

      1. Parcae*

        If this question was about a single coworker who keeps asking about the sippy cup, the coworker would be behaving very, very strangely and a “return awkwardness to sender” strategy would be justified.

        However, based on the LW’s characterization of the question as understandable, I think the more likely scenario is that multiple coworkers have asked once each. That may be annoying to the LW, but it doesn’t mean they should react to being asked about a sippy cup as though it’s weird or socially unacceptable, because it isn’t.

      2. Yorick*

        I think the letter would have been worded very differently if it were the same person over and over. “A coworker” doesn’t mean this has only happened with the same person, it means a single coworker at a time will ask about it.

    10. Morning Reader*

      I think LW1 could avoid bringing the cup in with her at all. Keep a water bottle full of soapy water in the car, dump the milk outside the car, rinse with soapy, put it back in the car.
      If I brought something like that into work with me, I’d forget to bring it home half the time.
      Alternative: put it in an opaque bag e.g. paper bag or reusable lunch bag. Anyone who sees it would assume you are brown bagging that day.

      1. Funko Pops Day*

        Yes, I was wondering if it would be possible to make a pit stop in a bathroom/kitchen at daycare to do the rinse before heading back to the car after drop off.

        1. Lizzo*

          Are parents allowed to go in with children at daycares? (I don’t think the ones near me allow it…security concerns.)

          1. JustaTech*

            At mine I’ve got to go in (first door, up the stairs, second door), wash toddler’s hands (had to do that when he was an infant too), make sure he’s got his bedding for naptime, engage in goodbye rituals, escape, then use the app to check him in.

            Our school allows parents in pretty much any time, though they do ask that you not drop off or pick up during lunch time, to reduce chaos.

      3. Cardoons are delicious*

        Yeah, this should be a non-issue but if too many of the co-workers are weird about it and/or it’s an industry culture where the sippy cup is going to remain an issue, I’d try dumping and rinsing at daycare and keep a big jug of water in the car as backup for rinsing, and some rags to wipe it dry or whatever.

    11. Samwise*

      It’s weird that they (and it sounds like it’s just one coworker? so, singular they) ask why you have a sippy cup. DUH! Why would an adult have a sippy cup? Because they have or have been taking care of a child.

      When they ask, say “It belongs to my daughter.” If they ask again, same answer. If they ask after that, a “look”, then, “As I’ve said before, it belongs to my daughter”

      Your coworker is a bozo, OP.

      1. Nodramalama*

        I don’t think it is one coworker. I think by “a coworker” they just mean, a random coworker, which is why LW says the question is understandable. If it was the same person each time LW probably wouldn’t think the question was understandable

      2. Allonge*

        If it’s the same coworker asking, I would tell them what OP wrote here. Having a child does not equate to carrying their things around when the child is not nearby.

        If this does not stop the questions, then OP can escalate to frowning and so on.

        But I really don’t think it’s the same coworker asking repeatedly, OP would likely have spelled that out!

    12. Jeanine*

      Why is this even a thought? It’s a cup, it needs to be rinsed out, what does it matter if she is carrying it or not.

      1. Allonge*

        Because not everyone is in the ‘don’t talk to me, don’t make me talk to you’ etc. category as a lot of commenters here?

        People talk to each other, sometimes about random, inconsequential things. People who work together meet and perform social actions like small talk.

        As you cannot always do it about the weather, something harmless but noticeable will be a great topic people will seize on. Most office workers don’t carry sippy cups around. Insta small talk topic!

        1. Starbuck*

          Yeah, if I was the coworker, I’d probably ask about it just to give the person a chance to tell me about their kid, since most parents seem to really enjoy that. And to break up the generic monotony of ‘hey how’s it going’ that I’d normally be greeting them with.

          1. Plate of Wings*

            Me too! I mean I definitely understand why it could feel like a loaded judgement or shady observation because of the topic of motherhood plus work. Especially from someone like me as a person without children.

            Like you, I really just want someone to smile because they’re talking about their kid LOL. These comments have been illuminating.

    13. Rusty Shackelford*

      Teach the kid to drink from a straw. Put her milk in a Stanley cup. Wash out the Stanley cup at work and have your colleagues ooh and ah over your super trendy accessory.

      1. Cmdrshprd*

        Per LW1 comment about the kid drinking it in the car, using a straw is not safe while driving. In case of an accident it could cause severe injury to the child. A sippy cup without a straw is better.

    14. Squid*

      I use a small Packit cooler for this very reason (not including a link, but on the Bezos store it’s “Packit Freezable Snack Box”). I put my son’s cup in there and then toss it in the office fridge – no one is the wiser, and the cup doesn’t get gross.

    15. TootsNYC*

      an insulated lunch bag would help in carrying the sippy cup TO the car, so then use it carry the sippy cup FROM the car and to the sink, etc. (for that matter, if you dump the milk out so it won’t spill, it probably won’t end up that stinky just from the day itself. Or stick the lunch bag in the fridge for the day!

      and if someone asks while you’re at the sink, give them a really obvious, “what a weird question” look, or frankly, just say that. “What a weird question. I’m sure you can figure it out.”

    16. iglwif*

      This. I find it bizarre that anyone would notice, let alone mention, the presence of a sippy cup … but since LW’s coworkers do have this weird reaction, it’s worth acquiring an inexpensive and less distinctive receptacle to disguise it. Not because they deserve to be shielded from the sippy cup but because LW deserves to be shielded from their weirdness.

      (When I worked in an office, I brought my lunch every day packed in an owl-shaped lunch bag from the kids’ section at Indigo. I also had photos of my kid on the credenza in my office and a couple of her artworks on my corkboard. If anyone found any of this “unprofessional,” they did not mention it to me.)

    18. e271828*

      It is weird that people are commenting on this at work. Or is it the same person? If it’s the same person, asking repeatedly, stare at them and ignore the question.

      If you’re in some context where a sippy cup is a security risk or too weirdly out of place to imagine (having trouble imagining what that place is, especially for someone walking into the office, toward the kitchen), yeah, put it in a bag.

      Do NOT dump the milk outside and leave it in the car unwashed!

    19. Princess Sparklepony*

      I was thinking she should get one of those soft sided adult lunch bags and put it in there to walk it into the building and to the kitchen. Give it a rinse out in the morning – you don’t want milk getting sour anywhere near you. Have a dish towel in the lunch bag, dry it off, and pop it back in the lunch bag.

      Fewer people will see it then. Dumping the contents in the bushes isn’t going to stop the cup from getting gross. It needs to be washed out. Not walking around with it in her hand will look better.

  2. Punk*

    #2: Lack of training is a huge and known problem in a lot of industries (accounting is one of them). If Todd starts to feel like his lack of training is making him look incompetent, he’s going to leave. I don’t think there’s anything you can do about this besides prepare yourself. Your company hired a new graduate with no experience and openly states that they won’t train him. He’s asking the right questions. He probably won’t stay if he doesn’t feel like it’s possible for him to learn the job.

    1. Kjinsea*

      yeah, I feel for both the LW and Todd. They are both being mistreated by the company. I wonder if they LW could structure supporting Todd to make it take less time, maybe by asking him to hold questions until a certain time. I train new folks often, and I find that when they have scheduled check ins, it decreases extraneous questions in between the check-ins. Obviously some things are urgent, but most aren’t and Todd might even feel more supported if the structure and support was structured vs ad hoc.

      1. Zelda*

        Came here to say something like this. If Todd has to hold his questions until Training Hour, instead of just blurting things out whenever, he may figure more of it out himself. He also has tme to edit and consolidate his questions– maybe several of them are really aspects of the same thing, and he can ask one or two big questions instead of fifteen little ones. No matter what, the LW is going to save a bunch of time on task-switching. Should probably still save time to review any of his output that has the potential for big impacts if not done well, though.

        1. EllenD*

          Also if moved to a regular check in, you can ask Todd to set out what he’s done to identify the issue or options, and why he doesn’t feel confident to solve himself. Training can be about giving people the tools to consider how to solve things. Sometimes thinking these things through can help resolve the issue (eg Todd can say the numbers didn’t look right, so he went back and double checked them and now thinks it because of y and he’d like to do z. Is this the right thing to do?). While training Todd needs to check his solutions are right and this is what a trainer/mentor should provide.

        3. ampersand*

          I think this is generally a good solution. However, I’ve been the Todd in this situation, and one problem that can arise if you’re holding all your questions until Training Hour is that you get stuck/can’t get any work done until you get your question(s) answered. This won’t necessarily happen with Todd, but it is something LW should consider if they go this route.

          My other thought was breaking up the question asking/training between LW and another employee (or employees), if possible. That would take some pressure off LW if others helped out. There’s really no great solution here if management won’t solve the problem…it’s more like just do the best you can with what you have until the situation changes!

          1. ThatOtherClare*

            Having been on both sides of this, my solution with our latest trainee is to give her access to our library of software user manuals and a ‘nice to have’ project. Whenever she’s incapable of moving forward until Training Hour, she can choose what she’s interested in learning next or work on her project. If the project never happens it won’t matter in the slightest, but at least this way she can fill in her time independently learning new skills in whichever way suits her best. If the project happens she’ll be our expert in that software, which would be a great new capability for us. Or if she just reads from a bunch of different manuals and pokes around at the sofware a bit she’ll develop a lot of our team’s required skills and will only need to be taught what we do with those programs, so she’ll be contributing much faster. We’ll see how it goes, but I’m cautiously optimistic.

            Actually, writing this out has made me realise that she doesn’t have much context as to which programs we use most often. I’ll make sure to give her some info on that at our next Traning Hour, in case that impacts her choices.

      2. ecnaseener*

        Maybe take it a step further and ask Todd to schedule check-ins with multiple different people, so it’s not all falling on LW. If a trainer isn’t going to be assigned, then the whole team should share the training work.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          This. He can keep a list and then the team can rotate the check-ins.

          Speaking as someone who entered an industry in which I had NO experience whatsoever and everyone talked in acronyms, I feel ya, Todd.

    2. niknik*

      This thing is a full on management failure, and Todd would be well off exploring other opportunities, imo. (As would probably be LW2)

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        True, but it sounds like there WAS a plan and unexpected changes kicked everyone into crisis mode. That happens in well-managed places too. OP needs to speak up because if the manager is putting out other fires they may be relying on the team to get Todd up to speed and they need to know it’s not working.

    3. El l*

      Does Todd really need this very high level of hand holding?

      In short term, I’d set weekly meetings to answer all questions, and tell him the firm’s culture is busy with persistent fend for yourself expectations. (Not OPs fault)

      In long term if that doesn’t work, then I question whether this is the right place for Todd, whether company needs to completely overhaul how they train new hires, and the company’s culture of deadlines.

      1. Punk*

        There are a lot of jobs (again, this is reminding me of accounting though it’s far from the only one) where most things can’t just be guessed at, especially if you don’t have a foundation of knowing enough of the company’s operations to be able patch offhand answers onto that. ERP and CRM systems need to be taught with direct and dedicated training.

        1. Bitte Meddler*

          I *wish* companies provided direct and dedicated ERP systems training.

          At my last company, I was the SAP Guru on our team. Newbies sat in awe of my deep and wide knowledge of wrestling information from the inscrutable, not-at-all-user-friendly system.

          They all asked, “How did you learn all this??”

          And I said, “The only way anyone does at this company: Just click all the things and see what happens. Oh, and Google.”

        2. Plate of Wings*

          Well said! I work in one of those “figure it out yourself” fields (a positive for me) but so many jobs do not and should not work that way.

      2. CommanderBanana*

        I don’t know if Tom’s questions are hand-holding, though. The LW said specifically that these aren’t questions that he can ask Tom to look up.

        I get that there were unforeseen circumstances that have led to the LW’s workplace being this understaffed, but you also can’t hire inexperienced workers and not expect them to need training/coaching/whatever. Even if Tom were the most proactive of hires, he’s still going to need training and someone to go to with questions. If the LW’s workplace can’t provide this, that’s on them, not Tom.

        1. el l*

          “Do you know why the numbers in this column don’t add up?” or “Does this sentence I wrote make sense?”

          Both of those are really “in the weeds” questions, even for a new hire.

          Todd should have latitude to learn for himself on these issues, or at least delay the answers until the weekly checin. If he doesn’t and there’s a good reason for it – if he say is in some compliance role where everything has to be extremely specific – then this is 100% not OP or Todd’s fault, and the conversation has to be, “We need a dedicated training program, possibly with dedicated trainers.” (And this place is even more dysfunctional than at first glance)

            1. Zephy*

              I mean, if it’s a case of “am I using this internal jargon correctly, or have I grossly misunderstood what an ISIR is,” that would make sense to bring in an experienced pair of eyes to double-check.

      3. Jean (just Jean)*

        Your questions about the company are excellent but I doubt that either Todd or LW2 can do anything except decide whether to stay or leave the company. I also doubt–based on what we know so far–that the company is sufficiently well-organized/well-run even to examine its functioning, much less try to improve matters.

        1. CommanderBanana*

          I don’t disagree, but there still needs to be a solution in the short-term for Todd – a solution that is not just letting a new hire flounder.

      4. Mockingjay*

        Often training is less about hand holding and more about learning how things are/must be done for compliance or business practice, or to ensure the company’s services or product meet client requirements. Even in the same industry, Company A can operate very differently from Company B. But the only way you’ll know is if you are trained in Company B’s processes when you come on board.

        I feel for both Todd and OP2. For OP2, it’s a temporary inconvenience (hopefully). For Todd, lack of training can impede his performance, which is not the impression you want to convey in a new job.

        I like the suggestions to schedule training hours and possibly rotate those hours among OP2 and other staffers.

      5. NotAnotherManager!*

        It’s tough to know if what’s happening is hand-holding or if it’s the result of a rushed/deficient/non-existent training process where he’s likely trying to even figure out what he doesn’t know.

        We have a robust training program that includes presentation, practice assignments, how-to guides, and regular check-ins. It is A LOT of work to administer and keep current. If they whole team is bogged down with too much work, then it’s really unlikely they are doing a good job training the new guy, and the best you can do is try shadowing live work, regularly-scheduled check-ins, and sharing the burden of Todd’s questions (including with management).

        However, even with a robust training program, there are simply people who require step-by-step instructions for every single thing and a lot of reassurance that they’re doing things correctly. In some places, this is a good thing (compliance-focused); where I work, it’s a nightmare because not everything is the same exact steps every time (we teach the framework and multiple samples of what that can look like in variation, but people have to be able to get the framework and generalize the training).

      6. Jennifer Strange*

        Does Todd really need this very high level of hand holding?

        If he’s straight out of college I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. That’s not to say someone further along in their career wouldn’t also have questions, but generally once you’ve found your footing in one place you’re better off when going to another place both in terms of how to problem solve on the fly and on how to trust your instincts on things. I don’t think it’s out of line for Todd to need a bit more guidance than someone with even a year of work experience.

        1. Allonge*

          It’s also the case that in the beginning of a new job, you will inevitably have more questions, even as a very experienced person – let alone just out of college. I really don’t think that OP is saying anything that indicates Todd is out of line asking these questions, it’s just that OP has no capacity to answer.

    4. CommanderBanana*

      ^^ This. I’m not discounting the incredibly crappy situation the LW is in, and it really sucks to be underwater and be expected to train someone (having been there myself!) but it’s also an incredibly crappy situation to be the Tom in this situation as well. Even the most self-startery of self-starters will need training at a new job.

      I don’t know if this is actually true, but I had an HR director at a previous job who was really fond of saying that most employees decide whether to leave a job within the first month or so. It doesn’t mean they do leave right away, but it puts them in that mindset. I had an incredibly bad on-boarding experience at my previous job, and even though I stayed there for 6 years, it was definitely part of the reason I didn’t want to stay longer and why I don’t recommend that workplace to my professional circle / have warned potential hires who reach out to me about it.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Even the most self-startery of self-starters will need training at a new job.

        Yes. This. Training is not hand-holding and depending on the job and/or its necessary regulatory requirements, it may take longer to get someone up to speed if they’re new to either the industry or a particular aspect of it.

        Case in point: when an old job merged with another department, my responsibilities shifted to tasks with which I had no prior experience. Unlike my colleagues, I was an outside hire and didn’t handle those things previously, so I had to be trained. I was blessed (sarcasm) with a new boss who was a workaholic, constantly booked and unavailable, and said I needed too much “hand-holding” when in reality, I needed training because it was a whole-ass new job. That phrase still has the power to rankle me.

        1. CommanderBanana*

          ^^ This. I have worked with great, proactive new hires, and I have worked with new hires that could not figure out how a doorknob worked without an SOP.

          Treating a proactive new employee like a burden when they have questions is the fastest way to lose them. Proactive, self-starting employees are like gold. They will have other options, because they are proactive and will look for other options, and you’ll end up with the hires that are confused by doorknob operation.

        2. Adds*

          seconding the “yes, this.”
          Even someone who *isn’t* new to an industry but is new to a company will need training on how this particular employer does things. Workflows and SOPs are not always the same across an industry. Heck, sometimes they’re not even the same inside departments with multiple teams and team leaders.

    5. TootsNYC*

      some of these questions, like ‘is this worded correctly,’ can maybe be passed on. “Do your best; as long as it’s clear to you, it should be fine. If Boss finds it confusing, they’ll ask.”

  3. Nodramalama*

    I always think I am an observant person but letters like LW1 make me question this because I do not think I would notice the presence of a sippy cup unless someone was drinking out of it like lala on VPR

    Conversely, for LW3 I do notice when people have wet hair at work. Personally when I have wet hair I slick it back into a tight bun. I do think it looks a bit unprofessional to have long wet hair out. I would say this for men and women.

    Lw5 it kind of seems like the solve would have been for Tony to assign LW fewer projects so they have enough time, rather than let people get angry at delays

    1. Shakti*

      I love a good VPR reference!! Also yes unless they were swigging from it I don’t think I’d care or notice and at most I’d think they have a strange quirk and like to drink from sippy cups

    2. Cj*

      my understanding is that they have been assigned fewer projects now, but are still clearing out the backlog from before this started. tony might not be able to have assigned them any less going forward, so until the backlog is clear that this is going to be a problem.

    3. Spero*

      Wet hair is a hill I am willing to die on. I have very fine, thick hair that takes about 2-3 hours to air dry down even after using a microfiber towel, if it’s up or I’ve slept on it the hair will still be wet 10 hours after I showered. Heat drying takes at least 30 minutes and doing that consistently would damage the health of my hair, which I don’t think an employer has the right to demand. If they could demand I damage the health of my hair for an office job, what’s the line between demanding that I damage the health of my skin by using particular treatments/products or other similar demands? I think it’s unreasonable to expect more than that I’ve brushed or styled it so it is neat even though still wet.

      To me commenting on whether hair is wet or dry or up or down is similar to commenting on whether or not I have makeup. If it’s clean and tidy, my face is visible, and it has no impact on my ability to work then no further comment is needed.

      1. LadyVet*

        I have thick hair as well, and just don’t enjoy blow-drying. Sometimes it’s dry by the time I get to work, sometimes it’s not, but I’ve fortunately only worked in offices where it hasn’t been an issue.

        My preferred way of getting it off my face, wet or dry, is a French braid so I get waves instead of one bump.

  4. Not A Manager*

    #1 – Dump the milk, put the cup in an opaque plastic bag (you can reuse it), and wash the cup in the kitchen. If you’re even worrying about this, then find a way to make it less stressful.

    1. My oh my*

      Or just maybe have the kid drink the milk at home? Or skip the milk? That honestly seems easier than all this cup business. We’re proposing the cup goes from home, to car seat, to getting dumped out in the parking lot, getting stashed in a ziplock bag then in a purse, carried around the office, brought out of the bag(s), washed, stashed back into the bag(s), carried back to the desk, brought home, likely then dishwashed. This cup has more excitement in its day then I do.

      1. KateM*

        Obviously the kid is not going to drink milk in car forever, but OP may not have enough spoons to drastically change the early morning routine for a toddler.

          1. CommanderBanana*

            Haha that is a good and diplomatic way of putting it! There’s so little they can control, they really love to have things they CAN control, and if the presence of the sippy cup is the difference between a meltdown and no meltdown, sippy cup stays.

            1. Orv*

              I remember my mom explaining this to me when my little brother wouldn’t eat toast that was cut into rectangles. “He doesn’t have control over much of anything except what he puts into his mouth, so if he can insist on only putting in toast triangles, he will.”

            2. JustaTech*

              And this is why my kiddo needs a cup of water for our whopping 8 minute commute home.
              Heaven help me if I forget his sippy cup, though I have discovered that a disposable coffee cup with a lid will get the job done with a minimum of spillage.

          2. iglwif*

            Yes. And getting a toddler into a carseat in the morning can VERY easily become the thing that makes you show up for work late, frazzled, and cranky. Nobody wants that.

          3. ampersand*

            Yes! They’re often tiny little tyrants and you don’t wanna mess with their milk or their morning routines. :)

            I like the opaque bag solution–get a washable one; that’s perfect.

      2. RC*

        I mean, “there are definitely easier ways to do this, why can’t we just do it that more logical way” seems like one of the central themes of parenting? Kids come with lots of stuff, and that stuff sometimes will find its way into the office.

        Some kind of bag or even an appropriately large coffee mug that you *just happen* to also need to wash that same time in the morning that the cup would fit inside for transport, seems the best option to the question that’s being asked.

      3. Emmy Noether*

        As a parent of a toddler and preschooler, I can tell you that when you find a morning routine that works and doesn’t make you and the toddler late or insanely cranky (or both), you’re prepared to go to a lot more trouble than this to maintain it.

      4. General von Klinkerhoffen*

        A sippy cup with even half an ounce of milk needs to be rinsed out promptly (particularly any mouthpiece, depending on the design). We also don’t have the information about whether the journey to daycare is long and/or early.

        1. Lego girl*

          Could you just drop the cup off at daycare and have them rinse it? Or rinse it yourself there? I’d probably go with the rinse it and an adult cup at my own office but our daycare has two sinks in the room plus an adult bathroom by the entrance so it would be very easy to rinse immediately.

          1. anon today*

            A lot of this will depend on the daycare’s rules about parents lingering, and could make LW late to work. An opaque bag is fine.

          2. Observer*

            Could you just drop the cup off at daycare and have them rinse it?

            Depending on the particulars, there is probably no “just” about it. Even if staff agrees, they won’t like it, as it’s extra work for them and yet *another* item they need to keep track of. And that also means that there is a high likleyhood of the thing getting lost.

            Dumping the leftover milk in the parking lot, sticking it into a plastic bag and then into a purse / tote / bag / whatever the LW carries, and then using that to take the cup to the kitched to wash is still the simplest suggestion that I’ve seen.

                1. Orv*

                  Agreed. My opinion about this sort of thing changed when I moved to a place with a dry climate, where anything you dumped wouldn’t get washed away by a thunderstorm within a week.

      5. Higgs Bison*

        In parenting, like in much of life, responding with “why don’t you just” -style responses is rarely helpful. You can offer suggestions, but this whole response comes across as dismissive and contains a lot of assumptions about a topic where the nuances tend to be hard to parse, especially from the outside.

        1. Melissa*

          I learned this late in life but yes— anytime I hear myself start to say “Why don’t you just”, I know I need to back off. People have reasons for what they do.

          1. Slinky*

            I agree. I have said before that “just” is the most dangerous word in the English language, because what follows it is almost never as easy as the speaker intends. “Just” adjusting a toddler’s routine certainly falls on this list, especially since dropping the sippy cup in a bag before going inside is a pretty simple change.

        2. iglwif*

          Absolutely.

          After many years of unsolicited “why don’t you just” advice, I have developed the cognitive equivalent of a spam folder, into which any statement beginning with those words is automatically dumped.

          And that goes double if the suggestion relates to a child, triple if it relates to a toddler or a teenager XD

      6. hiraeth*

        ‘Having’ a toddler do anything is easier said than done. I expect LW has her morning routine set up like this for a reason.

        1. Amy*

          I have 3 kids under 8 and my first thought also was “this sippy cup is causing a lot morning drama, maybe skip it?”

          I find not allowing food and drink to eat in the car for short daily trips makes my life a lot easier.

          1. Apex Mountain*

            It sounds like it’s only causing drama in LW’s mind though, nobody else seems to care. Even the comments sound like just casual small talk

            1. Amy*

              This is the kind of mental load (bring the sippy cup in the car, take it to the office, clean it, bring it home, repeat / sometimes deal with the spills/ write letters about it) that I always think is worth looking into.

              There’s always going to be a significant mental load with young children. Sometimes we are also creating optional mental loads and routines that add unnecessary life complexity for minimal benefit. Maybe this child 100% needs it. Maybe not.

              1. My oh my*

                Thank you! Agree on the mental load. And thanks to all the commenters but I do have a child. We have a rule of no eating/drinking in the car. Makes life easier, as Amy notes. We’re also not big snackers, so not constantly having to plan for in-between meal food helps ease the mental load a lot too.

                1. Turquoisecow*

                  Not having food or drink in the car is a laudable goal but yeah wouldn’t work for us and would result in lots of screaming and complaining. But every kid is different.

                2. Mid*

                  And as a kid (well into my teens actually), probably over 1/3 of my meals were in the car, between various different activities and school. I also am a big snacker and large meals don’t work for me. No eating or drinking in the car might work for you, but likely doesn’t work for the majority of people, and even more rarely for toddlers, who often want to eat/drink very frequently. If the commute to daycare is longer than about 15 minutes, it’s likely the child will want a snack or a drink on the way. And, drinking milk is often soothing for kids and daycare transitions can be stressful and scary.

                  I think skipping the morning milk is a far more complicated scenario than having a sippy cup in the office.

                3. dawbs*

                  I think that’s where it might be causing people to get stuck.

                  My kid has to be able to snack in the car. I could give you a LONG list of reasons (it starts with “the doctor says anything that gets calories into her body is a need” and includes a few things like “sensory issues means she realizes she’s hungry and there’s a 15 minute window between that realization and it leading to to vomiting and/or migraines”, with lots of things in between); realistically, in normal conversation, I’m not going to give that list.

                  I’m not going to for a lot of reasons, probably starting with someone’s need to know. But therin lies the problem, noted higher in this thread, of ‘can’t you just’ statements. If someone told me they were struggling to get enough calories into a kid, and I asked if they ate better in a ‘car snacks’ environment, and they explained they don’t eat/drink in the car, my first thought would be ‘can’t you just eat in the car?’

                  And they might give me 2 reasons on their list (ex: mental load and mess) and I might “overcome objections” like they teach you in pushy-salesman classes…but there might be 4 other things that are why they don’t eat in the car (they transport a dog who is made sick from kid crumbs, their child has a problem that makes choking likely and it’s unsafe, their kid’s sensory issues makes the chance of being sticky lead to high instances of meltdown–whatever they are) that I’m not addressing.

                  I think that’s what some of us are seeing here–this writer didn’t ask how not to have the sippycup (and I’m assuming this has already occured to her as an option) , so I’m assuming there’s a reason they feel they need the cup. So that’s what a lot of us are working with.
                  Sometimes “ditch the cup” is a solution, but I’d say that at least as often, it is not.

          2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

            The thing is, this is always going to depend on a whole slate of personal circumstances that can’t reasonably be included in the letter.
            Short commute to daycare, earlyish snack time at daycare, plenty of time in the morning routine to get everyone ready and fed, toddler rides quietly in the car without a sippy cup? Awesome, just leave the cup at home.
            Long commute to daycare, late snack time, hectic morning that requires breakfast on the road, sippy cup is the current attachment object, etc, etc? The cup is non-negotiable.

        2. londonedit*

          I don’t think this is necessary. People are allowed to make suggestions, and I really hate the whole ‘ha ha ha, you know nothing until you have children’ trope. I don’t have children, but I have friends who do, I have a nephew, and I therefore understand that if a toddler’s routine is a morning cup of milk in the car on the way to nursery, it’s very very hard to mess with that. Toddlers love routine. Even I, useless childless woman who has no idea, knows that.

          Personally I think it’s ridiculous that the OP’s colleagues are commenting on it, I don’t think it’s unprofessional, and I think she should carry on rinsing out the cup at work just the same as anyone else would with a reusable coffee cup or a tupperware from their overnight oats or whatever.

      8. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        If you’re making any kind of parenting recommendation that is not about your child and you find yourself using the word “just”, stop. I guarantee the parent has thought of your simple, obvious “solution” already.

        Many toddlers thrive on routine. (I would not be surprised if LW’s child not only needs milk in the car but needs a specific color of cup.)

        1. CommanderBanana*

          ^^ This. I do not have kids but I nannied for toddlers, and oh my gosh, they are the most delightful little creatures but also, there is SO MUCH a toddler can’t control, they really love to have something they can control, even if it’s just the right color of cup. Telling a parent to “just” do whatever with a toddler? Absolutely not.

        2. anon here*

          Just for any parents of very young children out there: one of the best parenting decisions I ever made was absolutely shutting down “color of cup” requests. (Color of any dishware or food accoutrements, honestly.) The fights and the acquiescence I have seen, oh my god, so when my first was a year or two old and started asking for the blue cup, specifically, she immediately and consistently got a “No, you get whatever cup you get. If you get a blue cup, yay! If you get an orange cup, yay, you got a cup! We don’t pick cup color.” Shut this down on the front end by literally never indulging it, even when it’s easy to accommodate. Because there will be a day when it will not be easy, and future you thanks you. /OT

          1. CommanderBanana*

            Glad that worked for you, but as a childless person I try to operate on the assumption that every parent is doing what works best for them and their kid(s).

            1. hiraeth*

              As a parent of two children who could not be more different from one another, I so appreciate people who assume this! What worked for one did not work for the other in the least. And no family has cracked the one-size-fits-all solution to anything.

              1. CommanderBanana*

                Yeah, this is like when people are like “well I wouldn’t let MY dog do X, Y or Z.” It’s actually really hard to control another living being that you can’t really communicate with in words, who is basically complete id, and also invested in doing many things you would prefer for them not to do!

                I was pretty smug about being a dog owner, then I adopted a dog who is definitely not interested in cooperating with anyone. I was pretty smug about toddlers, then I nannied for toddlers and found out that they’re pretty challenging, even the “easy!” ones.

                1. hiraeth*

                  Right, exactly! You’re in charge, in the sense that you’re responsible for said being, but that’s not at ALL the same thing as being in control. And if you did something and it worked, assume it was at least 50% luck.

      9. Turquoisecow*

        As a toddler parent I can tell you that having the kid drink the milk at home is the plan but when she’s half awake and not in the mood for breakfast but we need to leave NOW but also she needs to eat or she’ll be hungry later… the cup goes in the car with us. And sometimes it gets finished on the road to school and sometimes it doesn’t but yes warm milk in a hot car – no thanks. So I totally get why OP does this.

    2. Adds*

      My suggestion is to dump what, if anything, that’s left in the cup on the way into daycare and put the cup into Kiddo’s bag that comes and goes to daycare daily (or not, it’s not like it’ll be cottage cheese by the end of the day).

      The bag is inside all day where it’s climate controlled, the cup won’t be a biohazard before it can be taken home and washed. If we’re worried about drips, put it in a baggie in the bag.

      1. Not A Manager*

        I’m agnostic about all of the suggestions people have made, except for this one. Milk residue gets smelly really fast, it’s very difficult to eradicate from plastics, and it will crust in the screw threads and tiny holes in the top of the cup.

      2. Observer*

        That’s not necessarily true. And in fact, it’s probably NOT the case. Sure, the day care may be “climate controlled”, but even if it is, a day in 72deg temperature is going to mean a very smelly cup that’s going to need a fair bit of cleaning. And that’s assuming that the cup doesn’t have parts that are very hard to wash, which is extremely common with those sippy cups.

  5. Sparrow*

    I’ve gotta say, AAM, while I normally agree with you on a lot, I do really think you miss the mark every time wet hair at work comes up. I have long, thick, curly hair that takes about 5-8+ hours to fully dry (usually more towards the longer end of the range, as I live in a very wet and cold climate). When I’m working in-person, my options for how to take care of my hair are:

    – Wash my hair after work—bad option, because my hair will absolutely still be wet when I get in bed, which makes it dry in a weird way that looks very bad and will remain messy even after styling
    – Wash my hair before work, blow dry it—also a bad option, because blow drying inevitably makes my hair frizzy and, again, gives it a perpetually messy appearance until my next shower
    – Wash my hair before work, put it up—again, a bad option, because putting it up will make it dry weird. While I do have some ways I’ll put my hair up while it’s drying at home, I think they are all much less suitable for work than just having wet hair (wrapping my hair in a t-shirt is my go-to, but not really how I want to stroll into the office)
    – Wash my hair about 1-2 hours before I go into work, and come in with hair that’s still visibly damp when I arrive but is dry (or at least looks dry) by lunch time. This, to me, seems like far and away the best option—but apparently, this one is considered the worst option by many, because some people are still clinging to the belief that being visibly showered is unprofessional

    With all due respect—and, to be clear, I do think you are due plenty of respect!—I think this is an issue where your own biases and your own experiences are making it hard for you to see other people’s experiences here. While your hair texture may allow you to blow dry your hair or pull it back so that you never have to go into the office with visibly wet hair, for a lot of us, that is simply not an option. And, to be frank, I truly just do not understand the viewpoint that wet hair impacts someone’s appearance enough to be a mark against how polished and professional they’re perceived as. It’s just hair. It’s not even messy or dirty hair; it’s literally the furthest possible opposite of that!

    And while you do carve out some vague exceptions for people whose hair looks fine wet, this is an issue where I really, really think we need to just all accept that coming into the office with wet hair is fine across the board, because saying “It’s okay to do if your hair looks nice” opens up the floor for people to decide on their own what “looks nice” means on other people—which, when left to people’s own biased judgment, will often come down harder on marginalized people.

    This is particularly true for POC, and Black people in particular (to such an extent that Black activists actively campaign to pass laws to prohibit discrimination on the basis of hair texture. I know you stated in your answer that you think wet hair is more acceptable on people with curly hair textures because it looks nicer, but you’ve gotta understand that many people see it as the opposite and will come down much harder on Black people here. Leaving it up to individual people to decide how nice other people’s hair looks can even impact people whose marginalization is not generally associated with a specific hair texture. As a trans person, I have heard many, many reports from my trans friends of workplaces that enforce their dress code much more strictly on trans employees than cis employees. If we set our standard here as “wet hair is fine as long as it looks nice”, we are setting the stage to allow racist managers to discipline Black employees for wet hair in a way they don’t discipline their white employees, for transphobic managers to do the same to trans employees, etc.

    I respect you and I respect the things you have to say. In this case, though, I really do think this is a topic you’re missing the mark on, and even if this comment doesn’t convince you to change your mind, I hope it at least offers a differing perspective for you to consider when people bring this topic up.

    1. Nodramalama*

      While I understand this point of view, I think the issue of “it’s just xx” doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, because 99% of workplace norms are made up rules. ESPECIALLY dress codes and appearance questions. Why does a t shirt look more casual than a polo? It’s just a collar. Why do bare feet read to most people as unprofessional than shoes? They’re just feet coverings. Why do low cut tank tops look unprofessional? It’s just skin. They’re all just kind of arbitrary rules.

      there is probably a professional/unprofessional line you have that others would say is unfair and arbitrary to them.

      1. LateRiser*

        That doesn’t change the complaint that this particular unfair and arbitrary rule is disproportionately along racial lines and about a physical feature that cannot be changed. Which is usually considered a good enough reason to demand it be changed, so why is it not this time?

        1. Nodramalama*

          Because the question was a hypothetical about what is or is not a workplace norm. Not an actual conflict where a manager was mad at LW for having wet hair.

          There are plenty of workplace norms I don’t agree with. But if someone asked me “what is the workplace norm” I’m not going to pretend it’s something else because I don’t like it.

          1. LateRiser*

            Compare the response to the sippy cup question with the wet hair question, though. The sippy cup response has a whole paragraph devoted to how this is a problematic norm and if you have standing it’s worth pushing back. The wet hair response has nothing along those lines. That’s the distinction I’m talking about, not the exact semantics of the question itself.

            1. Nodramalama*

              Except Alison DID acknowledge it. Not every answer needs a three paragraph caveat.

              She said, if you look like a drowned rat who has just come out of the pool, that is going to read to many as unprofessional. That is 1. Not an insane thing to say and 2. Nothing like what sparrow described their own hair being like.

              I have thin hair but a lot of it and when it is down and wet from a shower I resemble Samara from the Ring. I do not think it is controversial to say that going to work like that is going to strike a lot of people as unprofessional

                2. fhqwhgads*

                  Because the scenario Alison described as not ok is “looking like a drowned rat” not “having wet hair at all”.

              2. meggus*

                it’s racism. it’s illegal discrimination. or it would be if white people didn’t always insist on using themselves as the litmus. Herein lies the problem. Workplace discrimination is a HUGE PROBLEM STILL. DEI efforts at many places are largely ineffective, which research shows is due to white executives not wanting to invest in anything that doesn’t directly benefit them. In 2024 if we’re not acknowledging these issues as real and existing, we’re contributing to systemic racism. that’s the truth of it.

                1. NotMyMonkeys*

                  Multiple people of color in this thread have said it is not an issue for them and that they don’t appreciate being used as a pawn in this argument. Maybe listen to them instead of deciding unilaterally that this is illegal discrimination.

              3. Orv*

                I have straight hair and yes, that’s exactly the right description. ;) Also it gets the entire back of my shirt wet.

            2. Mango Freak*

              I think the difference there might come from the fact that Alison is not a mom, but does have hair that takes forever to dry. She pausing more on that when addressing a problem that doesn’t affect her.

    2. nnn*

      “Wash my hair about 1-2 hours before I go into work, and come in with hair that’s still visibly damp when I arrive but is dry (or at least looks dry) by lunch time. This, to me, seems like far and away the best option—but apparently, this one is considered the worst option by many”

      You say this is considered the worse option but I don’t see that in AAM’s answer. She says hair looking like you just got out of the pool is a problem. That’s not “damp hair.” That’s wet hair. The option that you describe as your best option sounds like one that’s fine if we go by what’s written in the answer. Correct me if I’m misreading, Alison.

      1. Kella*

        I think Sparrow is making two important points here:

        1. If you have a hair texture that makes blow drying, sleeping with wet hair, or putting it up to dry a bad fit, then the best option is the one which results in the longest amount of time with visibly wet hair at work. This option has the highest likelihood of being designated unprofessional.

        2. Alison’s distinctions about what is and isn’t professional regarding wet hair are not designated by *how wet* the hair is, but by what the hair *looks* like when it’s wet. So if someone looks like a drowned rat when their hair is merely damp, that’s unprofessional. I think we can safely assume that anyone with visibly wet hair has done *something* to dry it, so just making sure it’s not “too wet” isn’t actionable advice. And because the distinction of how the hair looks is subjective, it makes it more susceptible to marginalized groups getting extra scrutiny.

      2. coffee*

        That was also my read of Alison’s answer. She specifically notes that damp curly hair doesn’t have the same “just went for a swim” look.

      3. Eldritch Office Worker*

        I agree. And I also think it’s less arbitrary. Long wet hair can leave chairs wet, can flick water on me if you are walking by/turning quickly, can drip on papers. That’s what I’m imagining when people say their hair is wet, and that’s unprofessional. But damp/drying? I probably wouldn’t even notice on most people, and it’s not going to impact me.

    3. Lily*

      I honestly appreciate how respectful your disagreement is here but I (respectfully!) think you’ve missed the point. Her answer to the hair question is similar to the sippy cup answer – the underlying question is not ‘ does AAM personally think this is unprofessional? but rather, ‘is this typically perceived as unprofessional in a typical work context’. And similar to the sippy cup question the answer is sometimes ‘sucks that it might, but it might, so manage it accordingly’.
      If I jump on a zoom call straight out of the shower, yep, gonna look like a drowned rat, gonna look unprofessional. It’s giving ‘I’m last minute chaos and disorganised’ vibes (cos yep, on those days I am chaos and disorganised). But if I’m having an air dry day and it’s been an hour or so, and it’s damp but not dripping, gonna be fine.

      1. kiki*

        Yeah, I feel like sometimes commenters here want Allison to make edicts that something is professional or unprofessional, but while there are some agreed upon facets, professionalism is often in the eyes of the beholder. If Allison were to say, “forget the haters, wet hair is totally fine!” that would make me feel very good today as I am sitting down at my desk with wet hair, but truthfully some people I work with probably do view my wet hair as unprofessional. And that’s useful for me to realize, even if I don’t agree and with that and don’t change my behavior much.

        1. Plate of Wings*

          Yes this my absolute favorite thing about this blog, and there are so many good things about this blog!

      2. Jackalope*

        I did have a conversation about that once at work and it was surprising to me. For reasons I no longer remember, I went to the gym before work once instead of my usual routine, and then showered. I towel-dried my hair but didn’t use the blow drier on it because I was in a hurry. It was definitely at the damp but not wet stage, and I honestly didn’t think twice about it until I dropped by my boss’ desk and she commented on it multiple times. As in asked me somewhat aggressively, “Why is your hair wet?” I had worked with her for years at that point and for the most part she was a great boss, but for some reason this threw her and she couldn’t deal with it. I still don’t get it, but there you are.

    4. MozartBookNerd*

      Just wanted to contribute a relatively recent fact from the mainstream news media:

      Dan Quayle, while still a Senator and not yet Bush the Elder’s V.P., was literally known derisively by the nickname “Wet Head” by his colleagues, because he would often show up for votes having just showered in the Senate gym. And this was remembered well into his Vice Presidency, as a sidelight on his probably well deserved reputation as a lightweight.

      (At the risk of overthinking it, I hasten to add: 1. History and even recent history can definitely be oppressive. 2. We all ought to have the strength to push against the dumb heritage of the past. 3. Merely invoking the past might tend to perpetuate it — in which case my apologies.)

      1. Vanamonde von Mekkhan*

        That sounds more like they are looking for something to denigrate him for. If he didn’t shower he’d be labeled as “Stinky Face”. If he didn’t gym he’d be labeled as “Lazy Slob”.

      2. Apex Mountain*

        I saw Jack Kennedy’s hair. I served with Jack Kennedy’s hair. Your hair sir, is no Jack Kennedy

    5. MG*

      Alison specifically says:
      “But not every hair type does that (especially not curly hair). If you don’t look like a drowned rat when your hair is wet, it’s typically going to be fine.”

      So, first, she specifically mentioned curly hair. And from your description, it doesn’t sound like you look like a drowned rat when your hair is wet. So not sure why you think Alison missed the mark here? I think she was right on target.

      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah I understand the larger point but it seems to me the answer we got is the exact opposite of this specific criticism.

      2. MagnaCarta*

        Because, as the poster states very clearly, “looks nice” is a personal and subjective bar that opens the barn doors wide open to racial prejudice.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          It’s not about “nice” though, it’s about actively wet which as I say above would bother me for more practical reasons. “Out of a pool” and “drowned rat” are drenched levels of moisture, not dampness.

          1. Arrietty*

            Drowned rat is kind of a non-positive way to describe someone’s appearance though. I don’t use heat on my hair or towel it dry (I wrap it in a t-shirt to soak up the water and then let it air dry) and I don’t look anything like a dead rat. I look like myself, with visibly wet but not dripping hair.

        2. Blue Pen*

          Not just racial prejudice, but discrimination in general—I’m not a POC, but I have the same hair texture Sparrow has, and it can be an issue in the workplace. I can’t afford to have professional blowouts done on a regular basis, so I do the best I can with a blowdryer and a hair straightener, and I keep a hairbrush in my work bag so I can attempt to tame frizziness, but that’s kind of the limit of the tools at my disposal. I have thick, curly, coarse hair, and there’s not much I can do to change that.

      3. Apex Mountain*

        I’ve never seen a drowned rat, so I’m not totally sure what that means. Does it just look like a wet rat that’s still alive, or does the drowning process do something completely different that would be in conflict with workplace norms?

          1. Happy meal with extra happy*

            Just wanted to let you know you’re doing a lot of heavy lifting in the comments today, and I appreciate it!

          2. Apex Mountain*

            Yes but if that’s the standard being set (in this thread at least) for what’s an acceptable wetness level, I’m curious to know what it means.

        3. Hlao-roo*

          Commenters ecnaseener and Ashley downthread gave some definitions for “drowned rat” levels of wetness that I think are useful.

          ecnaseener: “drowned rat — translation: if your hair looks stringy and is sticking to your face, that’s going to read unprofessional”

          Ashley: “The drowned rat looks translates in part to me as do you have a big wet spot on the back of your shirt from the wet hair”

          Damp hair is different from “drowned rat” and is (in my opinion) not out of place in an office. If someone’s hair is damp but styled, not dripping, and not plastered to their face, I won’t give it a second thought in an office environment.

    6. Ellis Bell*

      But Alison never said the bar is when “it looks nice”, that was your take. The differential is between looking slightly dampish and “like a drowned rat” or “just got out of a pool”. Most of us would be alarmed by hair that looks like it’s still dripping. I think those of us with textured hair have a blind spot towards straight hair sometimes, because you rarely see it wet. My hair looks dry to the touch even when it is actually still dripping, and I can easily get away with damp hair at work but I have friends whose hair dries fast, but looks alarmingly like it’s going to mess up the floor until it does. That said they would struggle to get to work with damp hair without it drying on the way. That’s what makes it so unusual to see. Also, you’re talking as though Alison gets to make the rules, and as though dress code rules aren’t arbitrary by nature. I do take the point it’s worth thinking about though, as long as hair isn’t alarmingly dripping I don’t care at all about wet hair at work, as my own hair often testifies.

      1. Emmy Noether*

        I seem to be unlucky in that I have very straight Euro-type hair, but it dries really slowly. Easily 4-5 hours to air dry open in cool weather. If I sleep on it, it’s often still damp in the morning, and if I put it up wet, it will look ok, but still be damp at the end of the work day (and my scalp does not appreciate the prolonged damp).

        When it’s damp, it just looks a bit damp in the lenghths, though, not wet. I will often wash in the morning, towel dry, leave it open on the way to work to dry out a bit, then do a low bun or a braid for the work day. I think it looks fine (and we don’t have much of a dress code, so I have leeway). Blow drying takes too long and makes it frizzy (unless I do a long complicated blow-brush-smooth-repeat routine, which I can’t be arsed to do often), so this is what works for me, and I don’t care enough about this norm to change (some of which is definitely white girl priviledge, but here we are).

        1. anon today*

          Yeah, my hair is the same, straight/wavy but can take 8+ hours to dry without blow-drying. There’s a decent chunk of time in that 8+ hours where my hair is still wet, but “presentable” and that’s also true for plenty of curly haired people I know. Generally IME for people with hair thick enough to need several hours of dry time, only the first hour or so is “drowned rat” and after that the top layer starts to look damp/dry and its fine.

      2. coffee*

        When wet, straight hair clumps together and loses all volume. If you’ve ever seen a fluffy dog being washed, and suddenly their majestic tail is just a sad little rat tail? That’s the effect. (I say this as someone with long straight hair.)

    7. Cyclosity*

      “If you don’t look like a drowned rat when your hair is wet, it’s typically going to be fine” is hardly a “vague exception”. Come on now.

      You make a lot of valid points, but exaggerated and inaccurate statements like this weaken your argument and make it seem that you did not read and engage with the actual post but merely used it as a jumping off point for expressing your own views.

      1. Em*

        Wanted to make the same point but you’ve already done it perfectly. You need to listen and make an attempt to understand the original point to have a discussion. When you just yell at someone about things they didn’t even say, or when your approach is to make the most negative possible assumptions about what they meant so that you can accuse them of whatever and position yourself as more knowledgeable, more “with it”, etc … people aren’t going to be interested in engaging with you and you’re just going to be shouting at those that share your views to start with. It’s exhausting.

    8. londonedit*

      Curly/wavy hair that’s a bit damp is, I think, completely different from straight hair that’s damp/wet. I’m fairly used to seeing people with curly hair who use a ‘wet-look’ sort of product, so it wouldn’t register as odd to me at all if someone was in the office with damp-looking curly hair. Straight hair, though? I don’t think it would look professional (and I have straight hair myself). I feel like with straight hair the assumption is that it’s fairly easy to dry, so why would you leave it wet?

      1. Myrin*

        It’s also generally much harder to tell if curly hair is damp or not simply because of the hair’s… texture, I guess? I have curly hair which is very frizzy but when it’s wet, it just looks like what other people’s curls normally look like – if you hold one of my wet strands next to one of my dry strands, the dry one is frizzy with a million individual little hairs going everywhere and light red whereas the wet one is smooth, defined curls and dark red; it doesn’t really look wet, though, just smooth and dark.

        1. Ineffable Bastard*

          Black textured hair, however, can heave the water hang in beads instead of looking defined or wet, and it’s unlikely to be well-accepted in the workplace. I wish people just let other people’s hair alone.

      2. Sloanicota*

        I’ve always thought my (white-girl curly) hair looks *more* professional somewhat damp, sigh … it’s at its least frizzy in that stage. A “wet look” gel doesn’t have the same effect for me although I realize that’s what they’re going for. Sorry if this is a derail from the topic/discussion at hand.

      3. doreen*

        I think that some people with curly hair have never seen someone with straight wet hair just hanging there. I am 100% serious – when my straight hair is short, it usually air dries before I leave the house and definitely before I get to work or anywhere else. When it’s longer, it takes hours to air dry, and if I don’t blow it dry , I either pull it back or up. The only people outside my household who have seen my hair looking like I just got out of the pool are people who saw me just get out of a pool.

        1. Nodramalama*

          Yeah I’m not going out with my hair wet and not pulled up. It dries wavy but while it’s wet and drying over hours it look like I’m in a horror movie and it leaves wet patches all over my top

      4. Yorick*

        I have straight hair. Until it’s about half dry, it looks stringy and weird but after that it looks more normal and I feel more comfortable being at work that way. I have dark brown hair so it also looks kind of greasy when wet.

        Someone else mentioned the girl from The Ring and that’s correct – for a bit my wet hair looks like I just climbed out of a well. If your hair is only damp OR when wet it doesn’t look like you rushed to work after your shower, it’s fine.

      5. JadeJ*

        Easy to dry? EASY to dry? Please excuse me while I peel myself off the ceiling. My dead-straight hair takes over an hour to fully dry because there are so many individual strands of it. Curliness isn’t the only factor contributing to ease of maintenance, thickness and number of follicles do too. There are plenty of white-passing people around with hair that’s straight, but not the fine, wispy, pale blonde Nordic stuff that I assume is what people are actually referring to when they say ‘straight hair is easy to dry’. I’m not going out with it dripping wet, but a damp bun? Absolutely.

    9. Feeling Feline*

      I agree here, and not just a curly hair comment. I’m east Asian, my hair does not dry unless I wash it 6 hours in advance, especially my scalp cannot tolerate a dryer. Even though I have straight hair, having white people standard on something that’s physiologically impossible for me is unreasonable and unrealistic.

      1. Mel99*

        I’m surprised. I used to live in China and never saw anyone at work with wet hair. Obviously everyone’s hair is different, though. My own (white person hair) is very long and takes ages to dry, sometimes still not dried in the morning if I shower before bed – so I stick it in a bun and you can’t tell it’s damp.

        What do you normally do currently, if the standard of ‘noticeable wet hair is unprofessional’ is unrealistic for you?

        1. a non-white blueberry muffin*

          “What do you normally do currently, if the standard of ‘noticeable wet hair is unprofessional’ is unrealistic for you?” I am struggling with your question. I guess you are asking for granular detail?

          I wash my hair when I know I won’t have to be at work or anywhere else where I think there is a chance my wet hair will look inappropriate.

          I try not go/do anything that would cause my hair to needlessly not look appropriate if I can help it, like go to the gym before an important meeting.

          If I have to be somewhere then I make sure my hair looks “appropriate”.

          I’ll stop there.

          1. Mel99*

            Sorry, I don’t think you’re the person I was asking (unless you’ve changed usernames) so I’m kind of confused about why you’re answering in the first place?

            It doesn’t sound like you have any issues with dealing with wet hair in this context anyway – the scenarios you describe are extremely typical, I (and I suspect most people with hair that isn’t short) act similarly and certainly wouldn’t say I have any struggles with it.

      2. ThatOtherClare*

        Respectfully, I think you might have missed the mark here. White people insist that wet hair is unacceptable because wet and even damp ‘white people’s hair’ looks very wet, and it tends to drip unless it’s really very dry. You can almost certainly allow your hair to contain several more millilitres of water than a white person would look awful with, and any white person you speak to would say ‘Your hair looks totally normal to me’. The white standard is purely an appearance standard, not objective moisture content measurement.

        If it helps, think of it a bit like foundation makeup. If your skin is flawless you don’t need to wear much, or you might get away with none. If you have acne or wrinkles society wants you to wear a lot more. Feeling Feline, it sounds like you’ve got the hair equivalent of great skin, so you can opt out of the equivalent of full coverage liquid foundation (a.k.a. full hair drying), if you want to.

    10. Seashell*

      I have worked with people with a wide variety of ethnicities and a wide variety of hair styles. I can’t say any of them have arrived in the morning with noticeably wet hair, so I guess they all figured out how to deal with it.

      1. Myrin*

        I remember the last two (or three? I thought there was a letter on it in 2015 but I can’t seem to find it) times the “wet hair debate” came up someone eventually mentioned this exact same point and it basically halted the whole argument because nobody could say anything against it.

        I wonder if this isn’t more of an intellectual debate than something a lot of people are actually affected by IRL. I’m certainly not the measure of all things but I can say that I basically never see people with obvious/visible wet hair outside, and certainly not while they’re at work, so at least everywhere I’ve ever lived, this doesn’t seem to be a widespread problem.

        1. LilBlaster*

          It’s a very real world issue for me, someone with textured hair that gets frizzy when blow-dried. I go to work with wet hair every day. It dries for a couple hours before I get there and is still damp by the time I get to the office. I’ve been called unprofessional by a former boss but they were so short-staffed that they never fired me, and I’m not going to relax my hair for a job.

        2. Spero*

          I’ve got long, straight, fine hair that takes 3-10 hours to dry and I’ve absolutely gotten comments about coming into work with it damp as ‘wet hair.’ Probably 3 or 4 times a year for the past 20 years I’ve been working? It’s never dripping but it’s clearly wet both because it’s flatter/less flyaway than when dry and because the color is significantly darker when wet. My usual response if someone says anything is to make a somewhat pointed comparison ex: ‘oh and I’m not wearing makeup either, heavens to betsy! At least I have heels on…’
          I just don’t see a difference between commenting on my hair vs commenting on whether I have makeup on (which is not a thing in my industry).

      2. V*

        yeah.. there are definitely bones to pick about the topic of “acceptable” hair at work, but unfortunately no race or ethnicity is equipped with magically quick drying hair.. and yet people manage. This is a very “online” discussion, but entertaining to read!

      3. Apex Mountain*

        Yes but who really cares if they didn’t figure out how to deal with it? I’ve been in the workforce for 35+ years and some of the things people judge each other on are still mind boggling.

      4. ThatOtherClare*

        I think doreen hit the nail on the head upthread by identifying that different hair types have different appearances when wet. The unwritten rule isn’t actually about how objectively wet your hair may be, it’s a subjective ‘your hair shouldn’t be much more “wet looking” than everyone else’s. Some people can get out of a swimming pool and not look ‘wet’, even though there’s a lot of liquid hiding between the curls. Some people with superfine hair need to extract every last drop of moisture before they look the same way, and most of us are somewhere in between.

        As you say, most people just calibrate to everyone else around them. You’ll see the occasional wet-looking person after a rainstorm or young person who’s misjudged ‘damp’ because they’re young and have fewer examples in their memories to compare with, and that’s about it.

    11. ecnaseener*

      I agree it shouldn’t be down to a vague “looks nice,” but that’s not what the response said. The response said you shouldn’t look like a drowned rat — translation: if your hair looks stringy and is sticking to your face, that’s going to read unprofessional.

      Neither of those are true for damp curly hair — either it’s textured enough that it doesn’t clump up at all when wet, or it looks like nice defined ringlets rather than straight strings (hence the “wet look” products for curly hair!), and it has enough body not to stick to your face.

      1. Ashley*

        The drowned rat looks translates in part to me as do you have a big wet spot on the back of your shirt from the wet hair.

        1. Nodramalama*

          Gad the wet spot. My pet peeve is when I THINK I’ve dried my hair enough and then surprise, wet spot

      2. Alpacas Are Not Dairy Animals*

        It’s odd that people have such specific parameters for the phrase “drowned rat” – I’ve mainly encountered it as a simile for someone who looked generally disheveled or ill, with no specific connotation of actually being wet (and occasionally for someone who got caught in a rain storm and was wet and disheveled all over.)

        1. Yorick*

          I think that’s the point – there is a level of wetness for hair (for some people) where you look disheveled and if that’s you then you shouldn’t go to work with your hair that wet.

      3. ThatOtherClare*

        If you do a google image search for ‘wet Afghan hound’, that’s exactly what some people’s hair looks like wet (including my own). Once you realise that’s what Alison and many of the commenters are referring to when they say ‘wet hair’ then two things become immediately obvious: that it’s objectively unprofessional, and whether or not your own wet/damp hair falls into that category.

        Don’t come back to work from the gym with your hair looking like the ears on a wet Afghan hound is neither an unreasonable nor onerous rule. Even the longest and fullest hair can be progressed from that state to merely ‘very damp’ with two minutes of attention from a cotton towel¹. Is ‘very damp’ ok or do you need to get to ‘slightly damp’ is where answers will start to vary by hair type and occupation.

        ¹Note that it does need to be a cotton towel. Microfibre towels are plastic, they don’t absorb any water, they just push it around effectively. Hence why they’re so quick to dry. Fine for scraping water off your arm at the gym but no good for absorbing water from between your hairs – unless you plan to wipe down each strand individually, I suppose.

    13. nikkole82*

      As a Black person coming to work with wet hair is not a black hair issue, the issue is with our texture and cultural styles being seen as unprofessional. Black people do not need to be put into this argument to make a point. Also, while I cannot speak for every or even most, we typically do not leave our house with wet hair

      1. Wefrence Libwarian*

        Lol this one confused me too. I’m Black with 4C hair and I would never ever wash my hair on a work day. The process of doing my hair takes like 3 hours so I save it for the weekend. I also have a hair type that is not good to wash every day and have worked out that once a week is the best option for my hair. If I leave the house with wet hair it will look completely different in a few hours and the exposure would probably just cause tangles and knots that I would not be able to deal with at work.

        Those with silkier curly hair might be the ones who suffer from the “wet hair takes hours to dry” thing which is completely valid. Though I personally have only ran into people with type A or B hair going out into public with wet hair – because in this case they need to wash it every day due to oil buildup and typically do that during their morning shower.

        Interesting convo all around though.

      2. Dorothy May*

        Yes, Black woman here. I used to work out all the time at the gym during my lunch period (the gym was in the building). I took a shower after working out and just…wore a shower cap in the shower. I’ve never had a conversation with other black women about having wet hair at work because they wouldn’t have wet hair at work.

        1. Miles of Olau*

          Yes, I have a short fro now and my hair dries in seconds but when it was longer I always used a shower cap. I can’t imagine going anywhere with wet hair.

    15. The Rural Juror*

      I often go into the office with my hair 75% dry, so I’m there with you! My hair is dark blonde/light brown and I want it dry enough that the color does not appear darker. Folks with darker shades of hair could probably get away with more than me.

      I had one coworker come in with her hair so wet the top of her shirt was visibly wet, too. I think that’s too far! The hair should not be dripping or so saturated that any fabric that touches it becomes wet, too.

    16. Yorick*

      She specifically said it depends on your hair and what it looks like wet. Some people look like a drowned rat when their hair is wet – that’s not what you’re talking about, so the advice to dry hair before going to work isn’t for you.

    17. Cardboard Marmalade*

      Standing ovation from another curly-girl over here. I’ve tried using a hair dryer with a diffuser, which cuts down on the frizz problem, but I can’t use them every day or else my scalp dries out and gets gross and flaky. Arguably much more unprofessional than coming in with damp hair sometimes.

      1. Pizza Face*

        Can I just say I’m very over the racist comments on every topic? IDGAF about your race and your hair. Dripping wet hair looks bad no matter if it’s straight, thick, thin, curly, frizzy, etc.

        1. Happy*

          Weird. It sure sounds like you do GAF about other people’s hair.

          It’s not racist to consider how our norms can disproportionately impact marginalized people.

    18. tabloidtained*

      I think there’s a tendency to cast an issue in terms of race or gender because it lend credence to a position, but it reads as condescending. If you know people of color with curly or textured hair, you also know that we don’t come into work with our hair sopping wet.

      The unprofessionalism of wet hair is far more likely to impact people with thin, straight, long hair, because it looks stringy when wet and tends to stick to skin and leave marks on clothing. Most people can’t even tell that curly/textured hair is damp, because it keeps its shape.

    21. LilBlaster*

      Thank you. I can’t blow dry my hair either, nor can I “slick” back my very curly hair without it looking like a frizzy topography map. I honestly think this is an issue that maybe Allison could sit out-no need to weigh in on textured hair if you don’t know what it’s like to live with it.

    22. Coverage Associate*

      I like the marker of wet hair is ok for the office as long as it’s the same color as when it’s dry and as long as the clothes are dry.

      My thick, curly hair, which I almost always wear up, gets completely dry maybe once a week, but no one but maybe my spouse is seeing that very center of my bun that is still wet when I shower the next day. I confessed this to a coworker with straight hair, and she said she also comes to the office with a damp braid or bun.

      We both seem to have gotten along fine in our careers with no bosses negatively commenting on our grooming.

    23. curly girl*

      Thank you for this. AAM posts about wet hair always make me uncomfortable because people are so against it (I believe a poster used the word “alarmed” in this thread). It sounds like I have hair very much like yours and I didn’t think anything of going to work in the damp but not drippy phase before I started reading here. I understand that some industries put a higher emphasis on personal appearance, but if you’re a casual workplace, adding 30 mins to an hour plus to someone’s morning routine because of norms (and sexist or racist norms at that) strikes me as far more intrusive than drying hair.

  6. Edwina*

    Just a couple of thoughts for LW#1:
    1. Rinse the cup out at the daycare
    2. Bring along some water in a jar, and rinse the cup out in the parking lot, then put it in your purse (have a small cosmetic bag to put it in) — or, have a small insulated bag with ice packs that you keep it in (in the car) after rinsing it out
    3. Get some “camping wipes” used to wash dishes when camping, clean the cup with those & leave in your purse or in your car (perhaps in insulated bag)
    4. Rinse in kitchen, but use a small black cosmetic bag to tote the cup back and forth

    1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      Your second suggestion is genius in its simplicity. It could even be warm soapy water.

        1. OrdinaryJoe*

          Exhausting and just more to handle, plan, and juggle were my thoughts too. I’d vote for just dumping the milk and letting it air dry in the car. I’m having trouble understanding how small drops of milk can be that bad.

          1. Bunch Harmon*

            It depends on the top (some brands are better than others). Dried milk is really hard to get out of a lot of the sippy parts, and then you risk odors and mold.

          2. MsSolo (UK)*

            You may want to google the history of the murder bottle! Even today, you still get sippy cups and bottles being recalled because milk gets into areas that can’t be easily washed by dissembling it and become breeding grounds of deadly bacteria. Sippy cups are generally worse than bottles, too, because the sipping mechanisms are more complicated (usually to reduce spills) and the holes are too small to clean any other way that running hot water through them. Once the milk has dried, it’s hard to shift, and you can’t scrub it out of there.

          3. JustEm*

            sippy and straw cups often have little silicone and/or plastic parts that can get moldy/gross fairly quickly if you let them sit with milk on them

          4. Dahlia*

            Milk doesn’t really “air dry” so much as “go sour”. And sippy cups are very easy to grow mold in.

          5. M2RB*

            …. living in Central Florida, the interior of my car can get to 125 degrees F within an hour during the summer. The stench of a few drops of milk gone bad in a hot car is FOUL.

          6. Observer*

            I’m having trouble understanding how small drops of milk can be that bad.

            I imagine you’ve never smelled really spoiled milk. The stuff STINKS. And by the end of the day you can’t just rinse it off. You have to *scrub* the thing.

        2. CommanderBanana*

          ^^ Right?? I could do this multi-part cleaning process that requires bringing yet another thing into the car that will itself also need to be cleaned, or I could just…bring the sippy cup into work with me and clean it when I clean my morning tea mug.

          If my coworkers are so precious that the sight of a sippy cup will cause them to combust, or my workplace is so donked that the sight of a sippy cup will cause me to be relegated to the Mommy Track forever, that is not really a place I want to be.

          1. Plate of Wings*

            Yup I’m cracking up at how many people are suggesting some version of this. This sounds like so much extra mess and work and planning.

    2. CottonCandyClouds*

      Mom of 3 here- stick the sippy cup in a lunch box/bag and into the office fridge to wash at your convenience. When I was pumping at work, I opted to put my things in a regular lunch bag instead of the cute bottle cooler for a similar reason. Someone

    3. Indigo64*

      Mom of 3 here- can you stick the sippy cup in a lunchbox/ lunch bag and stick it in the office fridge to wash at your convenience? When I was pumping, I stuck my milk in a plain lunchbox instead of the cute bottle bag for a similar reason.

    4. Almost Empty Nester*

      All of this sounds exhausting. Rinse the darned cup and carry on. Honestly unless you’re a woman who is perpetually blaming poor performance on “being a mom”, nobody will have a second thought. At least that’s been my experience with three kids who are all grown now with kids of their own. I worked in a heavily male very recognizable tech company and it just never occurred to me that anyone would think less of me for swishing out a cup in the sink and carrying on. Also though I do agree with a poster who suggested telling anyone who interrupts you on your way back to your desk “be right there…let me drop this off at my desk”.

  7. Catherine*

    #1 Personally, if I saw one of my coworkers carrying around a sippy cup I’d assume they’d learned their lesson after an “open cup + laptop” mishap and were taking preventative action going forward. (I have some very cute adult sippies that I use at work all the time for just that reason!)

    1. allathian*

      Some offices with hypoallergenic carpets on the floors require their employees to drink everything that isn’t plain water from what amounts to sippie cups. One of my friends works at an office like that. Using the sippie took some getting used to, but now she loves it. According to my friend, her manager who apparently loves the sound of heels on a hard floor is peeved, though, because now she can no longer put the fear of god into her employees with her clackety-clack walk that you can hear 50 feet away.

    2. iglwif*

      This is a good point!

      I also find that I drink more water when I keep one of those tumblers with a lid and a straw at my desk, instead of a glass of water or a regular water bottle with a lid you have to take off. Hydrate more, spill less, win-win!

  8. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    The entire “professional dress code” is based on the biases and norms of the white upper middle class, not on what actually matters to do the work.

    Unfortunately we have to deal with the working world as it is, not as it should be.
    Even if there is no dress code, at most organisations looking unkempt can give someone a poor rep and visibly wet hair would be considered unkempt by many, especially if mistaken for greasy. As usual, I suspect that a white person from a privileged background would get much more leeway over this.

    Possible solutions are to wash hair only during the weekend, e.g. Friday and Sunday evenings and let it air dry before bed.
    If your hair needs washing during the work week, then either dry shampoo or maybe looking frizzy after airdrying would be considered more professional than looking wet?

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      The disgusting prejudice against natural black hairstyles has meant that the half of my extended family with African hair keep it very short if working. (I choose to keep my more Euro-type hair v short indeed but that’s because I’m a gym rat and also choose to appear androgynous)
      However, I’ve never seen anyone going around with wet hair, even if not employed, because that is uncomfortable and inconvenient, especially in colder weather. We all use hair-dryers and go with the frizz.

    2. Seashell*

      I would say you could append that to be the norms of male white upper class people. My husband has hair that’s maybe an inch at its longest, and he can go directly from the shower to work without looking like a drowned rat. His hair dries in 15 minutes at most, and he has never touched a blow dryer in his life to my knowledge.

      Meanwhile, I have hair a little above shoulder length, and it’s obvious to the world if I just showered and didn’t blow dry my hair. It takes a full hour before my hair looks mostly dry. I shower at night to avoid the aggravation of blow drying.

      1. Cinnamon Stick*

        I agree and I’ve gotten into arguments about this. “It’s just standard,” he said. “Right, but who set the standard for so many years?”

        My hair is straight and fine, and it is an absolute sponge, taking three hours to dry. Two if I do a little blow-drying, but it can’t take too much heat. I wash it in the evening, or on WFH days, at lunchtime, since I’m rarely on camera.

        1. Fern*

          Yay someone with the same hair type as me. Straight, fine, and holds onto water like nothing else. I’ve been known to wring out my hair. I still wash in the morning a couple times a week, but on those days I pull it back into a braid or bun while its drying. Luckily my hair is a dark, boring, mousey brown that looks about the same color whether its dry or wet.

    3. Lily Potter*

      Unfortunately we have to deal with the working world as it is, not as it should be.

      Retired Vulcan, this should be permanently at the top of every comment box. Cannot tell you the number of comments that I’ve had to wade through, thinking – “Preaching about the sorry state of the world does not help the Letter Writer with the problem they’ve written in about today”

  9. CJ*

    #1 could you get a sippy cup that looks less like a sippy cup? Munchkin makes a stainless steel 360 cup; there are a number of metal/insulated straw cups. Other option might be to keep a cooler in your car to chuck the cup into…but that seems like overkill.

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      trust me this is the toddler’s very favoritest sippy cup and will have a meltdown if their milk is not in it. Until the day they decide they hate the cup.

      Honestly if we are going the Bring Your Whole Selves to Work thang, then that involves sippy cups being carried by parents. I personally would barely register it. but since people are asking, it is better to put it in a lunch bag to carry around so at least people just think you are carrying your lunch.

    2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      “Dump out the milk in the daycare parking lot, rinse the cup, and leave it in an insulated bag in the car” is where I would land, but that’s just because I personally prefer less stuff to carry around and risk forgetting. It is probably easier than convincing a toddler to change to a “weird” cup.

  10. Grey Coder*

    #2 — This is why Brooks’ Law (adding people to a late software project makes it later) is a thing, and not just for software.

    Looking ahead, is there a time when you (meaning your whole team) will have a bit more slack to bring Todd up to speed? Just acknowledging the issue with Todd will go a long way, but it would be even better if you can say “we know we’re not supporting you as much as we’d like right now, but we’ll have more time after the Sprocket contract completes”.

    And generally speaking, if Todd is going to be able to pick up some of the work later on, time helping him is an investment. Is there a specific area of work he could learn which would make him more productive earlier?

    1. Daisy-dog*

      I agree – helping Todd is an investment. It would be far more strategic to prioritize helping him. Without investing in the person who should be able to help, it’s like digging a hole that someone else is throwing dirt into. It doesn’t have to be in the format he is asking for now with questions all the time. It can be done in a more structured way.

    2. TootsNYC*

      Maybe some of that training/coaching could include helping him decide what’s truly worth asking for help on.

      Numbers not adding up, yes. (and maybe the coaching is not just figuring it out for him, but teaching him the tricks and patterns YOU use when you are figuring it out)

      Is his wording OK? Maybe that, he can be encouraged to just send it. He’s smart enough, it seems clear to him, and if it’s not clear, there’s time for his boss to ask.

      Training should be training, not hand-holding.

  11. Thegreatprevaricator*

    Thinking about letter 2 and wet hair, I wonder about just generally looking like you’ve exercised. I get a blotchy red face when I work out and even post shower (we have at work) and with makeup it persists for a little while. This is generally fine in my workplace, but I wonder what I’d do in somewhere more formal. Stand outside the office until my face returned to a normal hue? :D

    1. hiraeth*

      My face is a traitor and does this when I’m even slightly stressed or emotional, as well as after exercise, so I’d have to spend half my working life standing outside the office! (Which sounds quite nice right now.)

    2. FashionablyEvil*

      I used to swim between classes in grad school, so I inevitably had wet hair, a flushed face, plus goggle impressions on my face. Fortunately, most people were just struggling to keep up in stats and didn’t pay much attention.

      1. Orv*

        This reminds me of when I had swim class in high school right before another class that was on the other side of the building. My hair used to freeze cutting across the courtyard.

    3. Allonge*

      This is one of the many reasons I personally will never use an in-office gym. It’s way too much hassle to get back to work-compatible looks.

    4. UncleFrank*

      I also get a SUPER blotchy face if I even think about cardio (thanks, rosacea) so the only time I ever have used an on-site gym is as my last activity of the day. Plus if I blowdried my hair the heat would just make my face even more tomato colored!

    5. JustaTech*

      I tried running at lunch at work once and gave it up because my face was so red everyone kept asking if I was OK.
      Running in to work was OK, because I could spend more time in the shower getting my face back to a normal color, and because I was in early enough that most people weren’t around to ask “are you dying?”.
      I also did not wash my (long and thick) hair, because it would have never dried.

  12. Blanked on my AAM posting name*

    I really feel for LW4’s colleague, having once worked in a very toxic organisation where one particular manager responded very badly to mistakes (I once accidentally transposed two numbers in a draft report – careless, but easily fixed – and was yelled at in public for ten minutes for “humiliating” the manager – because someone in an internal meeting spotted the error and mentioned that it needed to be corrected – threatened with being fired without a reference, then called out at a department (50+ people) meeting a few days later with an instruction that everyone should report any mistake I made to the manager so that I could be fired for it. Before that point I was the department rockstar; afterwards, not so much.)

    Obviously there’s no way of knowing if there is a similar trauma background in this case, but I clearly remember starting a new job and, a few weeks in, approaching my new manager with terror to report a more major error on my part (I can’t remember the details, but I think I gave a customer incorrect information because I misunderstood a company policy) and, rather than the yelling I expected, getting “never mind, it’s not a big deal. You’ll know better next time.”

    1. WoodswomanWrites*

      What? Over two transposed numbers noticed internally they publicly declared you needed to be watched and could be fired?

      That manager sounds like a machine manufactured to be especially mean by threatening to fire you and publicly declaring you needed to be watch. I’m so glad you got out of that place and landed where management was made up of actual humans.

      1. Blanked on my AAM posting name*

        I later looked him up on LinkedIn and discovered he originally trained to be a priest. I think the world can be very grateful he decided not to pursue that line of work!

    2. Frieda*

      Ugh, I’m so sorry that happened. I once had my boss call a meeting of mostly upper management types but also a bunch of my peers – maybe 15 or 20 people – to lay out and excoriate me for a decision I’d made which (in retrospect) was obviously impolitic but also unfortunately and inadvertently highlighted some very obvious issues in boss’s management of another unit.

      It took me years to get over it. Some of the people in that meeting are long gone, I’m sure no one remembers it but me and if so, only vaguely but it totally destroyed my confidence.

      In total fairness my then-boss was also demonstrating that he was holding me accountable for the thing, he didn’t fire me, and he never spoke to me about it again so probably from his perspective it was “good” management. But it was so awful to experience.

    3. Sloanicota*

      I was thinking, the habit of wanting to hide mistakes from senior people (I have the same instinct, and it’s not great; I suspect it makes it seem weirder since I’ve been at my job a pretty long time and am decently respected/trusted – and yet) comes from somewhere.

      1. TootsNYC*

        childhood

        both home and school.

        I remember a cousin telling the story of how, decades and decades earlier, as a college student, he’d parked the family car in a no-parking zone and had to hide the fact that he’d gotten it towed because his dad would be SO mad. His dad overheard and YELLED at him.

        I told my husband later: I do not want us to be the kind of parents whose children are afraid to tell them that they’ve fucked up. God forbid they should have something go REALLY wrong (like, they get arrested, or hurt, or something), and they won’t tell us, right at the time that they desperately need our help (money, life experience, emotional support, logistical help).

        I think we’ve managed to succeed at that.
        (though sometimes I think my kids aren’t “tough enough” and are very un-resilient when they are criticized, at work, or wherever)

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I guess my thinking was in the same direction, because I winced every time Alison used “mistakes” in her response. If it’s a question of professionalism, sure, the coworker should just adapt if the OP has a calm, reasonable talk with them. But it sounds like the coworker has trouble remaining calm and reasonable when corrected. For that reason, if they are otherwise a good to excellent performer, I’d try talking about the work requiring an emendment or it requiring revision. It may feel a bit silly, but if this coworker just needs to feel that they’re not going to be attacked for making a mistake, then this might help, and it couldn’t hurt.

  13. Roland*

    > There was also a discussion about whether it’s reasonable to provide gym and showering facilities for use before work or over lunch but then expect people to dry their hair before coming back to work.

    I find this “discussion” pretty bizarre tbh. You’re also expected to dry your body and wear clothes after taking a shower at work. There is no contraindication here just because the shower is at work.

    1. Roland*

      Lol at autocorrect deciding that I wanted to say “contraindication”. I meant contradiction of course

        1. curlygirl*

          This comment is the first and only time people being so insistent about blow drying being a viable option has ever clicked for me, yeah no blow drying thick hair can take a long time, probably an hour would still have my hair damp in several places

      2. Myrin*

        I’m blown away (pun intended) by the thought of blow-drying taking an hour! I have a lot of hair, and it’s long, very thick, and curly. If I let it air-dry – which I almost never do – it takes more than two days to be fully dry. But even for me, blow-drying takes at most half on hour, and I thought that was a long time. I’m miserable for my poor comrades whose blow-drying routine takes an hour! :(

        1. bamcheeks*

          It takes me half an hour if I’m just aiming for “dry”, but if I want it to be “dry and looking reasonably styled” it’s more like an hour. It’s changed texture as I’ve got older, so where I used to be able to rough-dry it and it would settle into shiny and glossy, it now goes enormously poufy and frizzy if I don’t divide it into the TINIEST of sections, blow-dry each one straight and then carefully lay it down to cool. Which I literally do about once a year because good lord.

          My daughter’s hair is as thick as mine but down to her bum, and that takes me a full 50 minutes if we’ve let it air dry for an hour or two first. >_<

          1. Myrin*

            Ah okay, gotcha. My hair has basically never been shiny and glossy and is always enormously poufy and frizzy but I always have it in a bun or a braid (or both! Braided hair looks really nice in a bun!) anyway so I don’t care what it looks like outside of those. Which is an enormous relief because I decidedly don’t have the patience or energy to have a whole “routine” around my hair – that sounds very exhausting!

          2. Over Analyst*

            Same with me. I can blow dry my hair in half an hour if I want it to be a dry frizzball. If I want it to look reasonable it’s at least an hour and also typically a lot of luck (sometimes styling works and sometimes it results in a slightly less frizzy puffball).

      3. Nodramalama*

        I kind of feel like if you want to go the gym, shower, wash your hair and dry it, and drying it takes a long time, then maybe just don’t go to the gym in your lunch break

        1. sparkle emoji*

          Yeah, I’m a big believer in the body shower after a workout, both because drying my hair would take too long and I don’t really want to risk my contacts falling out in the gym shower.

      5. Office Plant Queen*

        This is so interesting to me because even when I had long hair, it would be fully dry in under an hour just by towel/air drying. Now that I have short hair, I actually have to make sure I comb it as soon as I get out of the shower because if I wait any more than 10 minutes it will have parted itself wherever it wants to, and after 20 minutes it is 100% dry. It would be difficult to leave the house with my hair still wet, and I’d have to violate several traffic and public indecency laws to show up to work with it wet

      1. allathian*

        I don’t wash my hair every time I shower, but I do wash my hair every time I exercise hard enough to get properly sweaty. If I didn’t, I would scratch my scalp until it started bleeding because it would itch so much.

          1. londonedit*

            Yeah…this is where I land. People often ask me, as a runner, why I don’t run-commute, and it’s because to me it seems like a logistical nightmare. My hair is not the sort that means I can easily tie it back – if I’m going to look nice at work then I need to have washed and dried my hair in the morning. While we do have showers at work, we don’t have a full setup with hairdryers etc (or anywhere to plug a hairdryer in – we don’t have electrical sockets in bathrooms here in the UK) and I absolutely would need to blow-dry my hair if I ran to work and then showered. I also have to scrape my hair back with a hairband while I’m running, which would not look good for work, so I can’t just run in and change and shower and not wash my hair (leaving aside the fact that it would be too sweaty for that anyway). I’d also struggle to run with a rucksack big enough for work clothes, laptop etc (we have to take our laptops home with us if we’re in the office as there’s nowhere to leave them). Other people may well be able to work all of the above out, but to me it’s far too much hassle and I can’t see a reasonable way to make it work. So…I don’t run-commute and I don’t run at lunchtime when I’m in the office. I do my running on my WFH/weekend days.

          2. Edwina*

            Then don’t exercise in your lunch break when you’re in the office?

            I can see how this would erase the problem of wet hair at work, but it doesn’t seem fair that some people get to exercise at lunchtime, and some people don’t – only because their hair doesn’t look “appropriate” for the office.

            My hair is very thick and curly (I’m white), but I can get it into a ponytail or bun while wet so it’s ok for work, but clearly (from the comments), not everyone can do that. And for all I know, people are judging my wet hair bun. But I can’t blow dry it unless I want it to look like a huge cotton ball with bits sticking out. I also don’t care too much anymore what people might be thinking, and since I’m white, I get more leeway. So there’s that unfairness also.

            1. NotMyMonkeys*

              “but it doesn’t seem fair that some people get to exercise at lunchtime, and some people don’t – only because their hair doesn’t look “appropriate” for the office.”

              That’s not really the office’s problem, though. This read’s very much “not everyone can have sandwiches.”

            2. I wear my sunglasses at night*

              “ but it doesn’t seem fair that some people get to exercise at lunchtime, and some people don’t – only because their hair doesn’t look “appropriate” for the office.”

              I don’t think it’s “fair” that my coworker with 2 kids in 2 schools on opposite ends of town “gets” to leave early to pick them up each afternoon (and then logs back on later that night, and also arrives at the office well before everyone else each morning having already done the “drive to point A for this drop off, drive across town to point B for that drop off, NOW drive to point C for MY JOB” commute).

              Sometimes life isn’t fair and maybe Allathian should see a doctor about their scalp and spine (from last week’s sleeping letter)

              1. I wear my sunglasses at night*

                Meant to add: when I said I didn’t think it was fair about my coworker’s schedule, it was tongue in cheek. Because I’m not a psychopath.

        2. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

          Yes, thank you! And, people say just spray with dry shampoo — oh hell no. Adding dry shampoo literally makes glue in my hair. So gross, so itchy, and WAY more unprofessional looking than showing up with it damp. (I put mine up so it’s not super noticeable, but I’ve been a morning exerciser for years and live in a warm climate, so this is definitely the strongest option for me.)

      2. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah, I assumed the “people with long thick and/or curly hair wash it at work” was nothing more than a thought exercise because yep, I am never doing that. It takes my hair two days to air dry, or one hour of blow-drying, and even putting it up damp into a natty little braid or bun it is going to dribble water everywhere unless I wrap it in a turban for an hour or two first. Even when I was going to the gym daily, I washed it no more than once a week, and always in the comfort of my own home!

      3. Nodramalama*

        Yeah I feel like there are so many options that do not end up with, come back from your office lunch break with sopping wet hair

      4. Butterfly Counter*

        I’m someone who sweats a lot.

        If I do a workout, my hair is going to be wet. It’s just an issue of whether it’s wet with clean water or wet with sweat. Even if I don’t do a full wash after a workout, I do at least rinse it.

        I generally don’t have to worry much because a) I have an average amount of thin hair that takes maybe 30 minutes to air dry and b) I don’t care what people think about my wet hair. Both things are kind of luxuries for me. It makes up for the copious sweat.

        1. iglwif*

          I’m someone who sweats a lot.

          Likewise. I inherited this trait from my bio father, and then started taking medication that is great for my mood disorder but exacerbates the sweating.

          I’m not, like, Super In Shape, but I do walk between 2km and 5km per day on average. But particularly in humid weather, I can walk a couple of blocks and arrive at my destination with WET hair and sweat dripping down my face. There is nothing I can do about this (except carry a Packtowl in my bag so I’m not literally dripping on people). It sucks, but it is what it is.

    4. fhqwhgads*

      The contraindication is due to the time potentially needed to make the hair dry. The same reasons someone’s hair may be wet when they arrive due to showering at home don’t go away when you shower at work, over lunch or whenever.

  14. Smurfette*

    LW2 – this is a huge red flag.

    Either:
    1. your management team thinks that a grad with no experience can contribute meaningfully to your project
    3. they know he can’t, but they don’t care – because “we got you a new person so why isn’t the work being done”

    Both of those would have me looking for a new job.

    As for Todd, he’s been set up to fail, and he should also be looking for a new job.

    As an aside – I once worked on a client research project as a team of one (which later became a team of 4-5 because of the workload) – and my manager got a junior contractor in to help me. But this person had no access to our systems for the first month – so couldn’t book venues, print documents, or do any of the other admin I needed. So I still had to do ALL the admin, AND explain to them everything that I was doing, AND give them enough tasks to keep them busy. It made a bad situation much worse. So I sympathise, LW2.

    1. LW2*

      Yeah, I do agree (and my coworkers do too) that finding a different job is probably the best option for Todd. But as his coworker, I’m not sure if there’s really a nice way to say “You need to not work here” or if I’m really supposed to say that about my own team…

      1. ecnaseener*

        Whoops, when you posted this I was in the middle of typing my response below speculating that you hadn’t even considered the possibility. Apologies :)

        I don’t think you can or should tell him that he needs to not work there — after all, it’s not so dire that he should quit without something better lined up. If anything, you could mention things about how your training was when you first started out or how training generally works in this field, so that he at least realizes this isn’t normal and it might behoove him to see what else is out there.

    2. ecnaseener*

      I don’t think it’s a red flag in itself to think that a new grad can contribute meaningfully to the project, even if at a lower level than people with 10 years experience. The lack of training and support is the red flag.

      But yes, this sounds like a terribly dysfunctional workplace and everyone involved should be job-searching. (I suspect LW is too overwhelmed right now to think about leaving, just based on the fact that they mentioned the possibility of Todd getting fired but not of him quitting. He is probably at least considering it, LW, and you should too!)

    3. Cinnamon Stick*

      I almost left a job when someone told me flat out, “I can’t help you, you need to ask someone else your questions.” I hadn’t been given anyone to ask questions of and my manager was often in meetings. I’m glad OP is helping Todd, but Diane needs to do something.

      I don’t care how experienced someone is, throwing them in the deep end and expecting them to immediately swim the butterfly is unreasonable.

    4. Parenthesis Guy*

      When Todd was hired there was a plan to onboard him and help him get to a point where he could contribute. The reason why they’re having the issues they’re having is because the person that was supposed to train him left. It seems likely that they felt that a recent college grad with no experience can contribute to this project if he has someone to mentor him.

      I think the real problem is that this team needs to add more senior level people. Add two senior level people to an overworked team, and the problem with Todd gets sorted. The LW said that they’re looking desperately to add people, but all they’ve added is one junior level person over a four month period. Hiring is tough, but I’d have to ask myself whether they really want to add people.

      1. Sharon*

        Been there, done that. The real problem is while the team is understaffed, they are still trying to do the same amount of work. Manager needs to figure out what MUST get done and give the team permission to do only that and train the new people until they are up to full speed.

  15. Ganymede II*

    I find questions 1 and 3 very related, and the general topic is “how much of our human, personal selves is allowed to be visible at work”? Professional norms are evolving, and especially as work tends to bleed into our personal lives through work email on our phones, or late night calls with colleagues on different time zones, it should be fine to have our real-life selves come through. That means acknowledging that yes, we drop our children off before going to work, we shower and hair takes a while to dry.

    All this to say: bring the sippy cup. Let your hair air dry. You are a full person, you can be that person also at work.

    1. bamcheeks*

      Yeah, I don’t know whether I’m very lucky or very oblivious, but 1 & 3 are fully in the “things it would never in a million years occur to me to worry about”.

      I mean, I suspect it’s partly being white and straight-sized and generally under less scrutiny in terms of my dress/grooming choices at work, and partly working in the public sector where standards are grooming are not heavily policed. And who knows, maybe if I’d more rigorously excluded evidence of my showering and the existence of my children, I’d be CEO by now! But gosh, what EXHAUSTING things to have to worry about, and how overwhelmingly likely it is that it will be people of colour and women worrying about them.

    2. Pokemon Go To The Polls*

      This was my thought exactly, how much “professionalism” ends up meaning we have to disguise the fact that we’re human to fit some arbitrary standards.
      Another reason to embrace remote work when possible, at least to my mind. My cat doesn’t care if I take a lunchtime shower etc etc.

    3. i am a human*

      I am very happy that I work at a place where 1 and 3 are completely nothingburgers. I mean, I’d probably comment to sippy cup lady knowing that I’ve definitely been sippy cup lady before, very much in a “kids, amirite?” kind of way.

      I also regularly come to work with my hair wet (thick and long, takes approximately 900 years to dry). Sometimes I’ll go and blow dry it in a locker room in the building after it’s air dried enough to make that process not last 20 minutes. If it’s quiet, I’ll style it at my desk while reading documents. This is not a thing that has impacted my career and I wouldn’t want to work at a place that it would.

    4. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I have been WFH for a large percentage of my 15+ years of office work. During the 3 years when I actually worked at an office where the dress code was on the business side of business casual, I was eternally annoyed that I had to blow dry my hair, because at the time I had a style that looked totally wacky when I let it air dry. So I had to dry my hair and then straighten it, because even though *I have straight hair* it would get weirdly frizzy and flip up in odd ways and just look dopey. I resented the fact that I had to spend inordinate amounts of time doing a thing that would happen on its own eventually, just to look “professional.”

      I’ve been 100% WFH since 2020 and since then, I have blow dried my hair about 4x, and only for very special occasions.

      I think we should all just agree that hair is a total pain and life would be so much easier if we were all just naturally bald. (And sure, I’d shave my head but I’m not convinced the look would be at all flattering and I’m not willing to take that chance. If everyone were bald, then no one would think twice about how flattering it looked.)

      1. Orv*

        I’m the opposite, my hair looks magnificent when it air dries but if I blow dry it it gets all frizzy. I usually shower at night a couple hours before bedtime, so it has time to air dry.

    5. Jeanine*

      THIS!!!!!!!! Bring the cup and let the hair air dry who cares!! We are human and people need to worry about more important things.

  16. Smurfette*

    LW3 – yes, it’s reasonable for the company to expect you to show up dressed properly for work, whether you went to your own gym near your house, or the gym at the office, or cycled to work from home.

    Making use of a company perk isn’t something you do at the expense of meeting workplace expectations. If there’s a conflict, you don’t use the perk.

    Also, it’s perfectly possible to do a light training session, followed by a shower where you keep your hair dry. Keep the super sweaty sessions for after work.

    1. Dog momma*

      My take was that they don’t currently have gym facilities/ showers at work and this is something the LW wants but can’t stand looking at wet hair.

      1. ecnaseener*

        I… do not get that sense at all. LW saw a discussion (probably online since they saw rather than heard) and did not partake in the discussion. Nor did they take a side in their letter, they just said “some people say X others say Y, what do you think?”

    2. Unpleased*

      Yeah, this is not unreasonable. I basically plan my workouts and life around my hair needs and don’t find this overly burdensome.

      Having worked at a place with gym and shower, and working from home in a team with athletic people, here’s how we handle this:
      1. Take a look at your calendar and observe whether meetings are internal or external with clients. Internal meetings are fine for damp hair, sweaty hair, sweaty face, baseball cap. I do a cute shirt, some jewelry and light make-up. Surround the hair with other professional costume and it’s less obvious if the hair looks not-amazing provided it doesn’t stink. You give a quick note that you just ran/lifted/whatever. People say “cool, I am gonna do that later” and move on.

      2. For external meetings where there is a stricter dress code, work out very lightly or sometimes before or after work, or skip because today’s not the day. Client meetings are dressy for us so working out has to happen according to when I have enough time to do a real shower and hair routine.

      The important point is to exercise critical thinking about what your day allows. Also if you have a gym available or a gym-going culture in your workplace you may find that people care less and are used to seeing damp hair, etc., trusting that you know how to make the best use of your time and your responsibilities. But, again, you have to make choices.

    4. Morning Reader*

      Depends on one’s hair and body. For me, if I sweat at all, my short hair begins to drip as my head seems to start first.
      But per your suggestion, maybe body shower and dry shampoo would work.

    5. JelloStapler*

      So people who have a certain kind of hair should not use the facilities? Too bad so sad?

      I agree there are certain expectations but this seems a bit tone deaf.

      1. NotMyMonkeys*

        The use the facilities after work, when what your hair looks like doesn’t matter. Your job doesn’t owe you the ability to work out, shower after, and blow dry your hair during working hours. If you can accomplish all 3 in the span of your lunch hour, have at it! But it really isn’t an unreasonable expectation that you’ll look presentable at work, regardless of your workout.

        1. a trans person*

          If it grants some people the ability to work out, and the inability to do that falls along protected class lines like race and gender and trans status (which it does, as many of us have been saying), then yes, work DOES owe “you” the ability to partake as well.

          1. NotMyMonkeys*

            No, they don’t. If you are incapable of working out and then making yourself look work-presentable within the timeframe of your lunch break, that is not your job’s problem. It’s yours. You presumably have the option to work out at the end of the day, so do it then.

          2. Roland*

            It literally does not, what are you talking about? Do you think they aren’t allowed to have treadmills if they have a double amputee on staff?

      2. EDIA*

        Man, this feels like it’s close to running afoul of rule 4. Yes, different people are different. Yes, different people live their lives differently according to what fits best for the individual, and lifestyle constraints can be self-imposed or out of the individual’s control. Not everyone gets sandwiches.

        1. NotMyMonkeys*

          Exactly. If working out and showering during your lunch break is important to you, but you can’t figure out how to also find time to look presentable afterwards during said lunch break, then that’s on you and it’s not your job’s responsibility to accommodate that. The lack of personal accountability in this thread is astounding.

  17. Just sayin'*

    Re #1 and Alison’s response, “Dump the milk out outside…”
    Am I the only one squicked out by this? I’m picturing a puddle of milk out on the sidewalk or something, quickly getting rancid.
    Yuk.

    1. iglwif*

      Same! I once worked in an office where I and another person used to use our cold undrunk tea to water our plants. At some point we noticed a horrible smell coming from a third coworker’s office, and it transpired that she had been doing this too … except she’d been using TEA WITH MILK AND SUGAR IN IT.

    4. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      I’m picturing less than half a cup, splashed into the gutter or the vegetation next to the daycare parking lot, which is probably why I’m less grossed out. Sippy cups aren’t that big and whatever amount is left even less.

      1. Orv*

        I think this depends on where you live. If you live somewhere that gets rain year-round, that’s probably not a big deal. But in Southern California that milk might be aging there for five or six months.

        1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

          Here in the formerly damp Pacific Northwest, the summers have been increasingly rain-free and scorching. I would not recommend anyone dump milk outside here except with an active shower starting. All the microclimates mean that rain forecast for your area could be a mile away and you don’t get any for another month.

  18. Smurfette*

    LW4 – you say that “The issues I identify are not generally performance-related; they are typically mistakes made due to limitations in the process and/or tools.” Are they actually mistakes then? Mistakes imply human error. Maybe the language being used is part of the problem.

    Also, it might help to make the issues visible to the team: “last week we picked up an issue where ABC happened; this was caused by the system not allowing the user to do XYZ; until the system has been updated, please do DEF to avoid this happening”.

    1. ecnaseener*

      I got the sense that it’s somewhere in between — that the mistakes are avoidable but the process isn’t good enough to avoid human error. Like the system doesn’t prompt you to do XYZ, so everyone forgets to do it once in a while.

    2. TootsNYC*

      I think this is an important point

      the wording in those memos needs to help make it clear that it’s not the person.
      And then coach the person on the idea that it’s important to make management aware of the limitations of the tool.

  19. Dog momma*

    #1. rinse the sippy cup & put it in a bag, then in your purse. Then if you go into a meeting, you’re good to go.

    #3. most wet hair belongs to women and POC? and now its racist?
    and you want the business to provide gym facilities and showers? So you don’t have to look at wet hair bc it might be unprofessional? why do you care? If they’re following dress code otherwise and management isn’t concerned …its NOYB. Somebody doesn’t have enough work to do…

    1. Good Enough For Government Work*

      I think you may be trying to argue with the letter writer even though you agree with them? LW also believes wet hair at work is (or should be) no big deal.

      1. Good Enough For Government Work*

        Ugh, no, never mind – got LW confused with the person with a lengthy comment above. Sorry!

    2. TootsNYC*

      the only person who ever came to the office with wet hair, that I noticed, was a guy who went to the gym RIGHT before work and took a shower after. He came in with VERY wet hair.

  20. Good Enough For Government Work*

    I would have to judge anyone who cares about people having wet hair at work signifcantly more than I would judge the owners of said wet hair. (Unless it’s very literally dripping onto their papers/workstation, I guess.) For God’s sake, people! It is HAIR. It is (in this case by definition) CLEAN. And it will even go away within a few hours!

    Please, for the love of pete, could these people get a hobby? Or, better yet, go and actually do their jobs rather than bothering about a complete non-issue.

    1. Tangerine steak*

      I think it really depends on the dress code/expectation of the workplace.

      My own workplace has especially low standards for dress. Don’t wear NSFW slogans/images, your underwear should not be visible, shoes should be appropriate for safety requirements of your role. You couldn’t wear swimwear or pjs, you’d look out of place in a ball gown but outside that you’re likely fine.

      However, I’ve been around plenty of workplaces where the expected dress standard was miles above. Ironed, button up shirts, dress shoes, styled hair, most women wearing makeup, men often in cuff links and ties, jackets etc.

      In my place wet hair like a drowned rat would be fine. So long as you meet safety requirements with your hair (long hair is a risk) nobody would care. In workplaces with high dress standards – I couldn’t step straight out of the shower and would need to style my hair (in my case it’d still look wet but styled wet not drowned rat wet).

      As to what is right? I have no interest in needing to look professional, but I feel like we could maybe lift our standards a little more to avoid those who really scrape the bottom.

    2. Nodramalama*

      I mean sure, but you can also make that argument about basically every dress code and conversation about what clothes are appropriate for work, that’s not “are your private parts covered.”

      1. Good Enough For Government Work*

        Yup. And I would do the exact same thing (judge the person caring about it far more than the person wearing whatever) in most cases.

        If it fully covers your private parts, isn’t dangerous or offensive (slogans, imagery, etc.) and doesn’t otherwise interfere with a person doing their job then it’s fine. People should grow up and leave the schoolyard uniform-policing out of the workplace.

        1. Jeanine*

          I 1000 percent agree with you! Hair, dress codes, none of that matters. We have proven that for over 4 years now with work from home when all that crap could be dropped. Work still gets done, what do ya know?

      2. Happy*

        You keep making this point, but really it’s a reason to get rid of all of these arbitrary and onerous standards, not a reason to enforce them.

  21. Katrina*

    Op#1: Not sure what the sippy cup looks like exactly or how old your child is, but first thing you could try is a sippy cup that doesn’t scream, “I’m designed for small children!” I think Tommee Tippee does make some that more resemble a small thermos. Lollacups also have very simple designs (including a black one) with lids that close up over the sippy straw and handles that snap on and off. (It’s a weighted straw so young toddlers can still drink from them while tipping them upwards.) I think if you’re carrying something that doesn’t immediately look like it’s made for infants, the problem might solve itself right there.

    1. Percysowner*

      As a grandmother taking care of a 2 year old, I can attest that using the “wrong” sippy cup is cause for meltdown and refusal to drink. They want the NEW style not the one they used for the past 6 months. Toddlers have VERY precise ideas about how the world should work and are not good when the world doesn’t work that way.

      1. Katrina*

        Hmm…I’d say it really comes down to the kid–some are more finicky than others. And some finicky ones can be coaxed with a favorite drink in the new cup. We used fruit juice sparingly, so it made for great bribes when we needed it, but mixing strawberry or chocolate milk with regular can also work. And of course, there’s the age-old trick of showing two items that are equally acceptable to the adult and letting the toddler “choose” for themselves.

        My kids may have outgrown sippy cups a long while ago, but I still teach toddlers part-time in my day job. So I’m regularly reminded of how unique their personalities are and how tough a change in routine can be. :) I just threw out my suggestion as something the OP might find helpful if it fits her situation.

  22. You Can't Pronounce It*

    LW1 – We have an Assistant Manager who brings her toddlers cups in and just puts them in the fridge. No one says anything; however, I do agree with Alison that some of that probably depends on your company.

    LW3 – As someone with long hair that takes an hour to dry with a blow dryer, I agree it’s unprofessional to show up with sopping wet hair. A little damp, probably not the end of the world depending on your level within the company and if you have any meetings. To counter this, I wash my hair at night.

    I also workout on lunch. It’s OK to comb sweat through hair. It’s not the same as grease and will look fine, especially if pulling the hair back. You can also use dry shampoo if truly concerned.

  23. I should really pick a name*

    #1
    I wonder if the you’re the only one who feels weird about the sippy cup.
    How do your coworkers respond when you explain why you have a sippy cup?
    Do you get weird looks when you bring it into meetings?

    It’s quite possible that after asking about the cup, it just becomes background scenery and no one thinks about it anymore.

    1. fhqwhgads*

      I doubt I’d blink at the sippy cup, but if for some reason I did, it wouldn’t be because I was judgey about someone having a kid of sippy cup age. But it might be because I wondered if the presence of the cup in the office indicated the presence of the kid in the office.
      The “en route to school cup, not wanting to leave in car” scenario makes perfect sense to me. So it’s not even a big deal situation, but yeah… it’s either a nothing burger all around, or the questions about the cup aren’t really about the cup.

  24. Vicky*

    Can I just say how much I love this sentence: “Especially if you’re senior-level and widely respected, it can be a social good to let your own behavior be a counterweight to problematic norms.” It sums up exactly how I’ve been trying to be at work, in a far more articulate and clear way than I’d managed to even spell it out to myself. I’m honestly contemplating getting it printed up on a nice image and framed in my office.

    1. Dread Pirate Rogers*

      Yes, I love that sentence – and the thought behind it – too. It’s how I try to be but don’t always have the courage.

    2. Nonprofit writer*

      Yes, I love it too! I had both my kids when working at a nonprofit where not that many people had kids, and those who did had older ones. I was not senior but was solidly in the middle (and especially by the time my second was born I had earned a good amount of respect for what I did). I was very conscious of setting an example/precedent for younger people who would maybe want to have kids later on, and setting boundaries with the higher ups. So I washed my pump parts in the kitchen sink (felt self-conscious but did it anyway), told my bosses I had to leave exactly at 5 to make daycare pickup but could log on later when needed, etc. It wasn’t always easy & I get how LW feels about the cup (though I agree the comments are likely benign conversation-makers) but it was worth it.

      1. Plate of Wings*

        You’re an amazing counterweight! I had a boss who had 3 kids and was like this, it was noticed and appreciated. Even though all of us employees were “no children by choice” when this started, I realize now that it laid the groundwork for later hires that happened to be parents.

    3. Ganymede II*

      My manager replied to a meeting invite addressed to me that she had been copied in with “Ganymede II is not available at that time. Do not book people’s time out of working hours as they deserve to go home to their families without second thoughts.”
      I would have politely declined the meeting anyway, but her strong words made me feel like I can decline all such meetings without issue in the future.

    4. Pita Chips*

      That’s a lot like, “They go low, we go high,” which I think is appropriate in this case. I try to model professional and compassionate behavior too.

      I just wish it wasn’t so tiring.

  25. Tangerine steak*

    Expect Todd to leave if nobody has the time to train him.

    And if you won’t have time to train him until you have more trained staff – but you also can’t hire any – then you’ll never get out of this hole.

    Honestly, the fact that all your staff have more than a decade experience suggests you’ve (the company) had no interest in training people up and bringing them into the field. And so now when a few people leave you’re completely stuck cause you’ve got no training practices, materials, or will to fix it.

    This is absolutely Dianne’s problem to fix, and dropping projects is likely needed. But if nobody is willing to do that – then expect more staff to leave as the workload increases until desperation drives action – or the team implodes.

    1. LW2*

      Yep, your read is correct. For the past many years, our company has mainly brought very experienced hires to our particular team, largely because our work is quite specialized — many of us were trained at much larger companies with established internship programs. However, they clearly are now flailing a bit in a situation where they need more hands on deck yesterday.

      1. Pizza Rat*

        Even if someone is experienced, they need some guidelines of how the office’s procedures work. I can go into a new job knowing how my previous employer did TPS reports, but the way my new employer wants TPS reports could deviate quite a bit.

  26. Friday Hopeful*

    #2 – I feel bad for Todd! he is trying to learn a new job without dedicated training, and he’s doing it among a bunch of people who are already horribly busy. He’s a new graduate so also lacks experience in an office. It wouldn’t surprise me if he just stops showing up one day. If you can’t help as much as he is asking, please have a talk with him and just let him know its not him- and also reassure him that he is doing a decent job.

    1. LW2*

      I definitely feel the same way. I hope he doesn’t feel too discouraged or like he has failed, when the reality is the company was not fair to him.

      1. Evan Þ*

        Tell him that! I got a bad onboarding in my first post-college job, and it took me a few years to realize the problem had been my boss and team not myself.

  27. Tangerine steak*

    LW1 yes it’s weird and would likely have me looking twice (cause really sippy cups aren’t typical office crockery). I might comment – but I can’t see myself caring. I’d just find it odd that you’d use a sippy cup (which would be my assumption, cause I wouldn’t think of another reason you’d bring your kid’s cup to work with you).

    I wouldn’t see you as less professional you washing it in the kitchen.

    I don’t think you need to hide it – just drop it back to your desk and put it away. If anyone comments just matter of fact say – my daughter’s I dropped her at day care this morning

  28. Kesnit*

    #3

    Full disclosure… I am male and work in a field that is rather conservative. (Suit and tie most days.) My hair never gets past the lower edge of my neck. I go to the gym most days at lunchtime. In fact, my employer has an agreement with the gym where I get reduced dues that are taken directly from my paycheck.

    My workouts are usually heavy and involve a lot of sweating. Sometimes they involve the pool. (I’m a triathlete.) The dryers in the locker room are…not great. (I don’t have a lot of hair and they still don’t get it dry.) So I usually go back to work with damp hair. And no one has ever said a thing – even when I go to court with still-damp hair.

    Obviously a lot of this is location-specific. But I cannot see why hair that is damp-but-tasteful would ever be an issue. Are we going to blame people who get caught in the rain walking from the parking lot?

    1. Nodramalama*

      Thats why Alison’s advice on what is likely to be seen as unprofessional wasn’t damp hair, but wet hair

    2. anon here*

      Dark hair is less noticeably wet/damp, so that’s also a factor here. Some people with dark hair could have wet/damp hair and it could be literally unnoticeable; most people with lighter hair can’t go incognito that way.

      That said, I also go to court with still-damp hair (mine was morning-shower related) and no one ever said anything to me. But I definitely do think it is less polished than dry hair and I would try not to show up to a job interview with loose wet/damp hair.

    3. Texan In Exile*

      I think men are judged differently from women on this issue, unfortunately. Especially men with short hair.

      1. metadata minion*

        It’s also harder, at least for me, to distinguish short damp hair from short hair with some sort of styling product in it.

      2. LilBlaster*

        Yes, all the people in the comments claiming they never see anyone with wet hair are failing to even notice all the men with wet hair. Either that or my morning commute is a huge anomaly, and the great city of Chicago is ground zero for men with wet hair.

  29. Traffic Nerd*

    LW1 – I have been doing the same thing recently! And I have to rinse the sippy because the toddler expects water in the car at pickup. They often finish their day on the playground and I think when she stops moving she realizes she’s thirsty.

    I’m in the camp of just own it, though I am a little worried at how some folks perceive it. But anything more complicated is just not gonna happen right now, and my colleagues could stand to get over some gender perceptions. So I see you, LW, and you are so not alone!

  30. HailRobonia*

    I’ve knocked over enough cups at work to understand the importance of a cup with a lid, and if I so a coworker with a sippy cup, yeah my first thought would be “they have a small child… now back to work” but I might also think “there is a novel solution to the spilled drink problem!”

    Yeah, I know they make “sippy cups” for adults (mugs with lids, etc.) but I would think it’s pretty cool if someone were using a kid’s sippy cup as their own.

    1. Bookworm*

      I’ve worked in many offices where closed cups, such as travel mugs, were required. This goes back to the early 2000s. Too many computers were trashed after someone spilled their open mug of coffee. Even a takeout coffee cup with lid (such as from Starbucks) would fit the requirement.

  31. Glomarization, Esq.*

    The co-worker asking about the sippy cup is being weird. It’s not, actually, understandable for them to be confused as to this situation, because it is absolutely not weird in any way at all for a parent to carry a sippy cup into the office from their vehicle. The sippy cup doesn’t need to be hidden away or carried in a special bag (outside of a concern about spillage of the contents) because it is not weird or shameful or confusing for someone to carry a toddler’s sippy cup out of the vehicle in the morning.

    1. metadata minion*

      As someone who doesn’t have (or otherwise take care of) kids, I would be confused by seeing someone with a sippy cup in the office, because I don’t know the logistics of toddler-wrangling. The LW’s explanation makes total sense, but is not something I would have thought of on my own.

      I promise, I can be mildly confused about something without harassing my coworkers or thinking that their sippy cup or parenthood is shameful.

    2. Water Everywhere*

      Agree 100%. LW1 can get a leak-proof bag to tuck the cup in after rinsing, for their own convenience if they get pulled into a meeting, but otherwise treat it as a complete non-issue. If I was in this situation and someone questioned me I’d probably throw a question back like ‘would you want a cup full of milk sitting in your car all day?’

  32. Nancy*

    LW1: just wash the cup in the kitchen like you always do. People are just making small talk, and yes, will sometimes ask the same question. No one actually cares about it.

    LW3: it’s going to depend on your workplace. In all the places I’ve worked, no one cared, unless it was the very rare meeting with people from outside the org.

  33. CityMouse*

    Ignore coworker comments. You’re a mom it makes sense you have sippy cups. I see this as no different from having your pump or pump parts in the office.

  34. Alan*

    Re “Especially if you’re senior-level and widely respected, it can be a social good to let your own behavior be a counterweight to problematic norms”… One of my greatest joys before retirement was to use up social/political capital on stuff I felt strongly about.

  35. Sneaky Squirrel*

    LW1 – This feels like something that I would register as weird in the moment but then once I know you’re a mom or hear where you’re coming from, I’d forget about completely.

    LW3 – I view wet hair similarly to how I would view make up. You can come in with no make up and/or wet hair and be fine if that’s your intention and you’re dressed appropriately around it. But if you waltz into the company bathroom with the intention of doing your hair or your make up for another 30 minutes then you’re unprepared for work.

  36. kiki*

    On wet hair at work: I feel like professionalism is a spectrum of choices and behaviors that no mortal person will ever be 100% compliant with all the time. We all have to balance what’s realistic for ourselves in real lives with what level of professionalism is needed from us at our jobs on any given day.

    On most days, I shower before work and come in with damp hair. Thats not the most professional look but my hair is curly, doesn’t do well with a blow dryer or diffuser, and, quite frankly, I just don’t care to spend more time thinking about my hair most days. That being said, if I had an important meeting with the president, I probably would take the extra time and effort to get my hair, dried, blown out, or otherwise styled. That’s not sustainable for me every day and would side-eye anyone who cared that my hair is damp, but I can acknowledge it’s not the *most* professional look.

  37. Jon*

    If anyone challenged me about having a sippy cup, I’d be like, “I spilled my morning coffee one too many times.”

  38. Delta Delta*

    #1 I’m really struggling with the issue here. there are tons of suggestions about what LW1 ought to do with the cup, but it actually sounds like there’s no real issue with what she’s currently doing with it. And even if someone asks, a simple explanation of, “Jane finishes her milk in the car on the way to daycare so I need to wash out the cup” is a) true and b) totally reasonable. And if these are coworkers LW1 knows and sees often, chances are very good they know she has a young daughter. And if they are adult human beings, chances are very good they know leaving a milk cup in the car all day is going to get pretty funky. If LW1 is getting snagged into a meeting post-wash, she can just say she’ll be right back, put down the cup, and return to the discussion.

    1. Observer*

      there are tons of suggestions about what LW1 ought to do with the cup, but it actually sounds like there’s no real issue with what she’s currently doing with it.

      I think that most people don’t think that the LW *needs* to do something about this. But, if she happens to work in a place with weird or problematic norms, it would be to her benefit to make it less noticeable. And, as I *really* hope is the case, no one actually thinks about it or takes the LW less seriously over this, and it’s just her over-thinking it,these suggestions could make her feel better.

  39. M2RB*

    Re: #3, wet hair at work:

    I had a long-haired coworker at a prior job who would come in with hair so wet that their shirt was visibly wet on the shoulders and halfway down their back. That level of wet hair is over the line into unprofessional to me personally. I never said anything to them because a) the wet hair didn’t affect the quality of their work; b) our clients were internal, not external; and c) I was their peer, not any kind of supervisor or manager. The only thing I would have said would be along the lines of “hey, since you have that big presentation to the executive team tomorrow, make sure your appearance is on point – we all know how Executive A cares about being polished. Make sure your hair is dry and bring a lint roller in case your pets sneak attack you with fur,” said with a warm tone and a smile. If they ever were talking about how thick their hair was in a way that I could slide a comment in, I would have suggested throwing a towel over their shoulders for the commute to save their shirt from being wet.

    1. M2RB*

      I would like to clarify my comment above – the only time I would have made that comment about my coworker’s appearance regarding a presentation would have been if I were their manager/supervisor. Otherwise, it’s not my place.

      And generally, I don’t comment on other people’s appearances, because I don’t know what else is going on in their lives, and their careers are theirs to manage. When I have the snap/reflex reaction of “wet hair AGAIN?!” I remind myself that I don’t know what happened in their house this morning and it doesn’t affect me, so I need to focus on what really matters, which isn’t their appearance.

  40. John*

    #1 seems very solve-able. Either (a) keep a bottle of water in the car and do a 5-second rinse out before leaving the sippy cup in the car, or (b) keep the sippy cup in a bag and do the same quick rinse-out in the kitchen or bathroom sink. Wait til no one’s around if it feels better. Either way – not something to stress about!

  41. Overthinking It*

    We are getting very close to being due an update fron the 2018 writer who dreamed a colleague would die on September 26 2024. I will be very disappointed if we do not get this update!

  42. toolegittoresign*

    LW3: I have curly hair that takes a long time to dry. Wet hair at work is a heavily “it depends” situation. If your workplace is pretty casual, where jeans are acceptable, it probably doesn’t matter. Any occasion at work where I know it is very much in my advantage to look put together (client meetings, presentations, meetings with leadership), I make sure my hair is dry. If I’m just meeting with my internal team or such, wet hair is okay. If your office has a dress code that stresses looking put together at all times, I’d avoid wet hair as much as possible.

  43. heyella*

    LW 1: Oof, I hate that this is a concern. I work in a legal office and one of our male lawyers walks in every morning with with his laptop bag and his daughter’s sippy cup and pink kids’ tablet because he does the daycare drop off. NO ONE in my office has said it’s weird. There might be some gentle ribbing about how he needs his coffee in a sippy cup, but otherwise the general attitude is “oh what a good dad!” and no one cares that a sippy cup hangs out in our fridge all day.

    The parental double standards are stupid.

  44. Ohio Rocks*

    On the matter of the wet hair at work, I would advise against it. Back in the early 1990s, I had long curly hair and it was impossible to dry properly. I would sometimes come to work with my hair wet, although not dripping, of course! But every now and again, I would get a little snippy comment, and I never took the hint. I am positive, looking back, that this negatively affected my career trajectory. Either people thought I was lazy in the morning or running late to work or not professional or “too ethnic looking”. Whatever it was, and whatever their perceptions were, it didn’t help me. Good luck to all of my fellow natural big haired people!

    1. Observer*

      or “too ethnic looking”

      OMG. That’s gross. I’m sorry you had to deal with people who might actually think that way.

    2. sofar*

      The wet hair discussion is making me chuckle this morning. I see it as one of those things where, if one looks around their workplace and sees most/all people of varying ethnicities, hair types, etc. with dry hair and they’re the only one with wet hair, one needs to think, “Hmmm they’ve all figured out how to make it to work, maybe I need to as well.”

      In my early-20s, I very much came to work with wet hair (because I was rolling out of bed in the morning, showering, and hauling a$$ to the office. I have fine wavy hair and lots of it, so we’re talking 5+ hours to dry, more if it’s humid). I worked at a chill place, so nobody said anything. But one day, I was chosen to attend an event, and our very kind office manager suggested I go with dry hair. At that point, I thought about it and realized I was the ONLY one in our office 0f 100+ with visibly wet hair. Everyone else’s hair (across ages, ethnicities and textures), while not always impeccably styled, was DRY. So, I started washing my hair at night, figured out a styling gel that worked for me, put it in one of those super-absorbing towels, and started showing up to work with dry hair.

      1. metadata minion*

        I am so glad that nobody expects catalogers to come to work looking polished, because my hair is very thick and will still be visibly damp in the morning if I wash it at night. I hate hair dryers and having product in my hair.

        I suppose actually, if I absolutely had to have dry hair at work, I’d just cut it very short. It would be annoying to have to get it cut that often, but less annoying than any of the other options.

        1. sofar*

          I think it’s long hair that makes it more noticeable. Women “usually” have longer hair. I worked in kind of a hippy work environment where more men had long hair. Everyone’s was dry but mine. So I started making sure mine was dry, since 1. the office manager brought it up and 2. it was clearly a workplace norm that was in the realm of possibility to adhere to.

        2. Myrin*

          “I look around and see men with wet hair everywhere.”
          Well, I don’t. I don’t see women with visibly wet hair, either, though, at least not at my (or their for that matter, when I’m at a store or a doctor’s office or similar) workplace.
          (I sometimes, very, very rarely see people with wet hair out and about, but it definitely stands out. It’s not common at all here)

  45. Ann O'Nemity*

    #1 Shouldn’t be a thing! I see nothing wrong with the LW rinsing out a sippy cup in the kitchen first thing in the morning. However, if they are looking for an alternative, this works pretty well for me:

    Dump and rinse in the parking lot, quick and dirty. I like to drink my coffee during my morning commute. I don’t want to have to carry the mug into my office, however, because there’s a bit of a walk and I’m already carrying a large tote, water bottle, and a lunch bag. I usually dump any leftover coffee in the parking lot, pour some water from my water bottle into the mug, swirl it around, and dump it again. The mug isn’t clean-clean, but it’s rinsed out enough to not stink up my car.

  46. Blue Pen*

    #2 — I agree with Alison’s advice, and I would add another strategy. I’m not sure how useful it will be knowing how busy you are, but I’d consider offering some type of “office hours” arrangement for Todd. This doesn’t have to be a daily thing, but however much time you’re willing to give to it (an hour/week, for example), it’s on Todd to batch up his questions and hash them out with you then. That should teach him to be more resourceful on his own, and if he really needs the help or clarification, he should then direct those questions to Diane so she can get a better understanding of how this is encroaching on your workload.

  47. Somehow I Manage*

    OP1 – I might notice a sippy cup. And depending on the co-worker, I might make a small joke, but it is unlikely to cause a raised eyebrow. Especially if I know the coworker and know that they have a child of sippy cup age.

    Suggestions: Is there a restroom that is closer that you can use to rinse the cup? If not, maybe a slightly larger lunch bag/box for yourself and stash it in there. Or if someone does comment just give them a “yep…kid needed their morning coffee” and laugh it off. If someone stops you on your way back to the office, give yourself the same sort of out that you’d give if you were stopped on the way to the restroom. Tell them you’ll be right with them as soon as you complete the task you are on.

  48. Angstrom*

    #3: I work in an office full of lunch-hour athletes. Damp hair is common in after-lunch meetings. I’d only consider it unprofessional if it were still dripping and/or looked as though they hadn’t even attempted to dry it.

  49. Rough and Tough Afro Puff*

    I’m confusion.

    I don’t know of any african american [women] that leave the house, much less show up to work with wet hair. That is so in the beginning of the hair doing process. Even a “wash and go” is not a simple wash your hair and go out the door.

    This wet hair is unfair to [women and] “people of color” is a take that I don’t understand.

    1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      I read this not as ‘wet hair is unfair to certain groups’ but more like “the societal judgments around wet hair affect certain groups more than others” if that helps.

    2. Lady Danbury*

      I’m a Black women who regularly leaves the house with wet/damp hair, as do many other women I know with natural hair. Some naturals do diffuse or sit under a hood dryer for wash and go’s, but I know far more who air dry (and I’ve been fully natural for almost 15 years). A wash and go absolutely can be as simple as wash hair, apply product and go, lol. On wash mornings, I usually wash my hair before I get in the shower and apply conditioner, then rinse the conditioner and apply product at the beginning of my shower on soaking wet hair and shake off some of the excess water. Products apply best on soaking wet hair, because it helps to distribute it more evenly as well as emulsify the product. I then use a spa headband to absorb any drips and lightly blot with an old t shirt if it’s excessively wet, so that it isn’t dripping on my skin/clothes. My hair takes forever to dry (even under a hood at the salon), and even with only about 4 inches of hair the roots will still be wet at lunchtime. When my hair was longer, it would still be wet at the end of the day.

      I try to avoid washing in the evenings because it won’t be dry before I go to bed and then the section that I sleep on will dry (and set!) as smooshed and frizzy. That said, the most noticeable difference between my wet and dry hair at my current is that it hangs down more while wet.

        1. Lady Danbury*

          In relation to this convo, the product is irrelevant because it doesn’t affect me leaving the door with wet/damp hair.

    3. CanRelate*

      For #3, One of the reasons people might be saying this is racially coded is some hair is much more easily damaged by heat than others. Blow drying my hair causes a lot of breakage and I will not do it.

      I’ve have had supervisors a ton of opinions about my hair once I grew it out, it being wet, it being wrapped while it dried, what wrapped hair might communicate to clients about our team culture (??), where on the same team there was a long hair Caucasian woman who could come into the sopping wet hair and was never hassled. If the policy is being questioned, it might be because its been unevenly applied, so that bias is something to keep in mind. Once I had longer, curly hair it felt like I had no right answers.

      When I wore my hair pretty short, it could be wet (which changes the texture, but not as perceptively) and I was just more masculine coded in general, was never hassled about it. I didn’t mind wearing my hair short (or being called Sir at the grocery store), but I didn’t make the choice specifically for work. I just noticed the difference afterwards.

      Our labels about what is “professional” being mostly visual doesn’t always line up with healthy care routines for the person in question. The equity conversation is about who has to make themselves more uncomfortable or sacrifice more of their autonomy to have the same basic amenities. So if your buzz cut boss can roll into the gym and come to work with damp hair (but no one cares, because its wet, short blonde hair) but people think you shouldn’t (because its slightly longer and a different texture so it LOOKS wet, WEIRD), that’s where biases come into play.

  50. Apex Mountain*

    Can LW1 apply to work at the company from a few weeks ago that gives lots of “secret” benefits to employees with kids? I’ll bet she can get a new sippy cup every day – no more inconvenient washing out

  51. Tesuji*

    #5: This feels like a strangely half-assed situation to me.

    If you’re in a client-facing role that is relied on by multiple departments in your company, and neither the client nor the other departments even know about your accommodation, let alone have given buy-in on it (or been told by HR that their buy-in is irrelevant), does it really exist?

    To me, a real accommodation would mean taking any overdue time-critical projects off the worker’s plate, not just the immediate boss telling the employee they won’t be penalized for them being overdue (but not telling anyone else or making sure the client was okay with that).

    And, yes, “time-critical” includes “the client paid for the project to be completed in X timeframe” not just “someone is going to die if it’s not completed in X timeframe.”

    This is just weirdly hands-off, with the boss apparently just passing on the impact of the accommodation to the client without even letting anyone know. This feels like a company that’s pretending to be accommodating, while actually setting up the employee for failure.

    1. Lady Danbury*

      This was my thought exactly. I would have thought that a reasonable accommodation also meant redistributing some of the work so that OP doesn’t continue to fall farther and farther behind. At the very least, they should communicate to both internal and external clients what the expected timeline for X projects will be, without explicitly mentioning OP or accommodations. There could be any number of reasons that a project is delayed that are beyond the control of the project manager.

  52. Beth**

    Re: #3 I have long wavy hair and I swim before work almost every morning. I also don’t have the patience to blow dry my hair (which is in the 30-45 minutes to look decent club). So I towel dry, put some product on it and then put it up in a bun for the rest of the day. I have had positive comments on how shiny my hair is with the product, so I guess it’s ok. One day last week, I had a meeting in the afternoon with an important external person. I thought my hair might look better down and I was shocked by how damp it still was so many hours later. I knew that down it would dry in minutes, which it did, and the product kept it looking decent (I think, anyway).

    Conversely, I once went to a religious service where the female clergy person turned up with obviously damp hair. I found myself subconsciously judging her for looking less than professional. When I thought about it consciously, I was a bit ashamed of myself. But I was also aware that the congregation in general thought of her as being “too young” and were sceptical about promoting her when the senior clergy person left at around the same time, so I wondered if she was doing herself any favours with the older/more conservative congregants.

  53. Jennifer Strange*

    As I sit here with my just-washed wet hair tied up in a bun I’ve never been happier to work remotely.

  54. H3llifIknow*

    For the toddler mom: I Is your toddler old enough to use a more “adult” looking sippy cup? I have several that I use when sitting on my deck to avoid spills and bugs. Or, I think what I’d do is keep a bottle of water in the car and refill it from the tap as needed and just do a quick swish and leave both of them in the car. But that’s only if you’re truly concerned about perceptions. If I saw a coworker with a sippy cup in hand, I’m not sure I’d think twice. I might even think, “good idea, no spills on the paperwork!”

  56. MistOrMister*

    Boy do I feel for Todd in letter 2!! I have been in my field for almosr 20 years but when I started at a new place a while back there was almost no training and when I would ask for samples so I could use those, I was told to comb through the system and find them myself. I knew how to do the work overall, but did not know the procedures for this particular company and the person who was supposed to train me just kept saying she was too busy and to figure it out myself. So I tried and then I would get dinged for not doing things per their procedures and why hadn’t I just asked for help?? I quit after 3 months with no job lined up because that place was so stressful. It is hard enough being new and getting used to a new place but being new and having assignments you don’t know how to do because no one can/will take the time to teach you is a special kind of stressful! I really hope something can be done because otherwise poor Todd might find himself fired for not being able to do the work properly, through no fault of his own.

    1. Mid*

      Yup. I’ve also been the Todd before, and it’s stressful and frustrating. If you hire someone knowing they’re new and untrained, I think the manager is morally obligated to make sure they’re trained. Even if that means letting some less important balls drop, or the manager having to work more hours to make up for the time they’re training someone. (And importantly: the manager should be the one carrying the burden, not their subordinates.)

      It’s unfair and unkind to set someone up for failure by dropping them into a role they need training for and not training them. It’s a waste of everyone’s time and energy as well, because Todd will likely leave in time if the lack of support continues. And, the LW and their coworkers are also likely to leave if they’re expected to take on training without being allowed to reallocate their time, and are instead forced to train someone without taking things off their plate. And so you end up with even less staff on an understaffed team, which in the long run is even worse.

      This could be a good time to look at hiring contractors to fill in gaps if at all possible, or seeing if another team at the company could help out with the workload or the training, because the current plan of doing nothing is failing everyone.

  57. Momma Bear*

    LW5 – I’d go back to the boss and say that there seems to be a disconnect with the other department. People’s priorities shift for any number of reasons and sometimes you need your boss to explain their actions. I recently had to loop in my boss and once he reiterated that this one thing wasn’t my priority but that we understood it was due by the end of the month, the people yelling about it calmed down. LW may not want to disclose everything going on but there can still be a conversation with the other department about status.

  58. 1 Non Blonde*

    Somewhat related to LW1 (the sippy cup): at my first job, I got a pink lunch box solely because the other option was black, and in a sea of black lunch boxes in the fridge, I didn’t want anyone to accidentally (or “accidentally”) take mine. Every frickin time one coworker saw me with it, he HAD to go “oh, pink lunch box, eh?” and it was so annoying. People are dumb and they usually show up as coworkers.

    1. nnn*

      A delightful thing about pink stuff is there’s a sizeable, male-predominant demographic that won’t even touch it!

  59. KnitterWho*

    #1 I’m a childless cat lady so this is a question born of complete ignorance. can you give the kid something different to drink? something that won’t get gross?

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Yes, but that doesn’t mean they’ll drink it. Milk is also good for getting more calories/protein into a toddler vs. more sugar (fruit juice). And anything other than water will get gross in a car.

  60. Someone Online*

    Well, what if your job includes going to court? Or doing presentations in front of outside stakeholders? Or customer-facing sales? If your job includes sitting at a desk doing your work, no big deal, but if your job is public-facing I can see why standards might be a bit different.

  61. nnn*

    Theory about the vibe of wet hair: the threshold for where you can “get away with” wet hair is where it plausibly looks like too much product.

    You know how if someone has their hair tightly slicked back into a bun with so much product that not a single hair escapes, the aesthetic is not to everyone’s taste but it’s not considered unprofessional? It needs to look plausibly like that sort of situation.

    Other examples of relevant “too much product” situations include “every single curl defined within an inch of its life and not a single frizzie can escape” and “mid-20th-century businessman with so much hair gel that you can see his comb marks”

    (This is an attempt at articulating the vibe, not a sufficient basis for dress code policy)

  62. Dawn*

    #5 – it’s possible your managers aren’t saying anything yet because they respect your medical privacy (it sounds like they’re pretty good about this stuff) and don’t want to create a situation that would “out” the fact that you’re dealing with a medical condition right now. So you have to speak up and tell them that you’re ok with them communicating a version of this!

  63. Awesome Sauce*

    I kind of want LW #1 to start carrying around not just the sippy cup, but also one of those insulated wine tumblers with the spill-prevention lid (a.k.a. adult sippy cup).

    Realistically I suspect the solution is some combination of matter-of-fact replies (“oh, it’s my daughter’s, I’m just rinsing it out”), putting it away before getting dragged into a meeting (“sure, let me just drop this stuff at my desk and grab my notebook”), and carrying it around the office in a ziploc bag and/or a lunchbag.

  64. Fern*

    I appreciate AAM addressing the wet hair issue since I’ve seen “wet hair is unprofessional” a lot. I appreciate Alison’s answer which I’m interpreting as “wet hair is unprofessional if it looks unkempt or is dripping and leaving damp spots.”

    I used to go into work with it damp enough it left wet spots on my shirt. I get that was unprofessional.

    I regularly go to work with my hair still damp. Partly I do it because it actually looks neater and behaves better/holds a style better if I style it damp. There’s fewer fly-aways and baby-hairs that are going every which direction. Partly, I just prefer to wash it in the morning a few times a week. Unless it is 75% dry its up in a braid, bun, twist, or worst case a low pony and honestly, looks better than when I braid it dry.

    There’s folks who think braids, buns, ponytails, and french twists are also unprofessional and I just can’t with them. I wore my hair in a french braid or bun at work 99% of the time for the first 15 years of my career. In the last 7 or so I’ve worn it down occasionally, but still its mostly up. And I’m doing fine professionally. I also don’t dye my gray.

  65. JPalmer*

    #3 ‘Wet Hair is unprofessional’ feels so man/white centric. How does having the appearance of wet hair affect a person’s ability to do their job?
    Like I could maybe see if you were a host (read: a job that is centered around appearances), but there are many reasons hair could’ve been wet.

    This more feels like looking for something to complain about as a way to deny an employee using benefits, or targeting them because they are not the primary employee group (sexism/misogyny).

    I think I’d respond to discussions with “I don’t see how X having wet hair affects her work unless we are judging people on their appearances? Can you elaborate why that makes them look unprofessional?” as a way to shut discussions down. If there is an honest real reason it might come up.

    1. Mary*

      I mean, depending on how wet the hair is, if it’s actively dripping onto material/papers/electronics, that would be a problem.

      Wet =/= damp.

  66. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    LW#2 – It might also help to talk to Todd about how often he interrupts. The pattern of ask and answer can be a habit that is hard to break and actually perpetuates his lack of self-confidence. Many of the questions he could probably answer for himself (why is the column not adding up ) if he wasn’t able to ask you and get an instant answer. Which may also mean you need to break the habit of answering if this is an area he should be able to figure out.

    It might be better for both of you if you start scheduling time with Todd and ask him to save all his questions for then. Early afternoon is a good time. He has the morning to work through things, and then you meet and then he has the rest of the day to readress the work.

    Then maybe you can approach rotating who is training to spread it out and give him more diverse training.

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Seconding the suggestion to have a regular time to connect with Todd, rather than him interrupting all the time. I know it probably feels like you cannot find another 20 minutes in the day for this, but it’ll probably be much more efficient than all the distractions going on now.

  67. NotARealManager*

    My hair can stay wet all day after swimming/showering. I typically clip it up in a claw clip if I don’t have time for it to dry completely. Then it just looks a little darker and shinier, but I still look put together. I work in a fairly causal office though.

  68. Upstate Downstate*

    Regarding #3….

    At former job the lead exec assistant used to come into work with wet hair. It was always followed by one excuse or another but needless to say it did reflect oddly on the CEO when the exec had to greet clients.

    One day she came into work with…wet hair. This time the story was that she had spilled coffee on herself and had to quickly shower and change her outfit. We all rolled our eyes until….about 30 minutes later one of the Directors called around to ask if anyone had a sweater or top to spare. Turns out the execs wet hair had caused her white tank top to become see-through and as she was not wearing a bra it had become a while sitation.

    I think about this exec every so often and wonder what ever became of her.

  69. Skytext*

    Is it weird that when I read the headline I thought she wanted to DRINK out of the sippy cup at work?

  70. Brain the Brian*

    At least LW1 has sponges in the office sink. Our facilities department removed all the sponges and dish brushes from our office kitchen this summer (We still have soap! Just no actual cleaning implements…) and refuses to replace them. We still get nasty emails about leaving dirty dishes in the sink, because apparently the men who run our facilities department don’t understand that cleaning implements are necessary to actually clean things. Sigh.

    Anyway, LW1, just go wash your kid’s sippy cup. If you get pulled into a meeting with the cup in hand, just excuse yourself for a moment to go put it down (and presumably to grab a pen and paper or your laptop!). People who ask about the cup are probably just making small talk, however awkwardly. Just respond cheerfully that it’s your kid’s cup from morning daycare dropoff and you’re rinsing it out so it doesn’t get gross. Don’t overthink this (says the world’s worst overthinker — hah).

  71. CurlySue*

    I had to have a conversation with an employee about showing up with wet hair to teach a class to new employees. They had been in another industry for nearly two decades and swore it had never been brought up. I also have curly hair and let it air dry, but do not have a problem having it dry by the time I arrive, if I’ve showered in the morning. I started to give them tactics, but then ultimately decided this person needed to figure it out on their own. They are an adult, and in fact older than me, and I have given my expectations. I did tell them that my concerns were more specific to being in front of new employees. If they choose to have wet hair the rest of the time, knowing some perceive it to be unprofessional, that’s on them.

  72. Moose*

    Maybe this is just me, but if I saw my coworker dumping milk on the ground outside every day where it’s going to spoil and smell, I would think that’s a lot weirder than just doing it in the sink. And I would be more inclined to ask about it because again, it’s going to spoil and smell bad outside, especially if you’re dumping it out in the same place every day. I guess I’m glad I work in my field where rinsing out a sippy cup wouldn’t be something that could negatively impact my career.

  73. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

    LW2: I really want to encourage you to look at Alison’s link about workload issues. This specific problem with training/supporting Todd is part of a bigger problem: your company leadership has totally unrealistic expectations of what your team – in its current form – can accomplish. It sounds like it’s time to strongly consider having a bigger picture conversation with your boss about what is realistic. Are there any projects that could be delayed? Or have parts that could be delayed? Is there any potential to borrow staff from another part of the company to help on any projects? Can you outsource anything? Are there some tasks where it’d be OK for them to not be the highest quality?

    If it’s not possible to have it be an actual conversation, Alison’s e-mail script is great: “I can do two of X, Y, and Z, which two do you want?” Or “I’m going to prioritize X and Y for now, meaning that Z will be delayed, but let me know if you want to change that.” Or “if we do all of X, the timeline is 8 weeks, but we can do Component of X in 4 weeks, then come back to Other Component of X next year.” Hopefully, if you all start doing this, you’ll get some traction.

  74. Anony8593*

    Re 2. I don’t have time to answer a new employee’s questions

    In my work team, they created a “manager” role and had that person be responsible for doing all of the training. So if you are reporting to a manager, they created a “supervisor” position. If you are reporting to a “director”, then they created a “manager” position. You might be able to ask for a promotion or something if you are responsible for doing your job AND training others.

  75. Benihana scene stealer*

    To kill two birds with one stone simply wash out the sippy cup with the water from the wet hair

  76. LilPinkSock*

    LW#1 – I don’t recommend just dumping leftover milk outside, that’s going to get real nasty real quick. My working-parent colleagues often come in with a sippy cup or bowl or what have you. They just go right to the sink, rinse it out, stick it in a plastic bag, then unpack at their desk. Mid-hallway interruptions are greeted with a “hey, let me take a minute to unpack and I’ll come find you in just a bit” or a Sorin-style walk-and-talk.

    LW#2 – All the empathy! I’ve been in similar shoes to both you and Todd—so much work, so much onboarding, very little support. I fear that Todd isn’t being set up for success and you’ll lose him before he’s really gotten a fair chance to start. Not to mention the toll I’m sure this is taking on you! Yes to approaching Manager Diane. She’s in the best position to adjust workloads, assign onboarding partnerships, and get Todd trained.

    To cut down on a bunch of questions, may I recommend a series of job aids? Short documents put together by people who really know the task cold have been such a lifesaver for me as the trainer and the trainee.

  77. The Other Dawn*

    #2: I have a ton of empathy for Todd, as I’m in his position right now. It’s incredibly frustrating, draining, and depressing. I’m not inexperienced in my industry at all – I’m at the VP level – but I’m going back to something I was doing 10-15 years ago and so much has changed. I need to catch up on all the regulatory changes, learn the data system we use here, and also learn another thing where I know the basics, but it’s brand new to me in terms of the program I’m using now. The most frustrating part of the new position isn’t the new program, it’s learning more about the data system and catching up on certain things in the industry. The only people I can learn it from are too busy to respond to my questions. Well, a few respond to me for the most part. One person just basically seems to ignore my emails. I’m pretty much ready to move on at this point. The only thing that keeps me is knowing I’m learning a skill that will carry over to other companies and industries. And my pay.

    Having been a manager in LW’s position, I have empathy for her, too. Something I’ve always kept in mind that onboarding a new person, delegating, or cross training is always painful in the beginning, but there’s a big benfit in the long run. That said, you do need to speak up to your manager if you can’t find any time at all to help Todd and you’re also falling behind, and no one else will help. Don’t suffer in silence.

  78. WhatsAGirlToDo*

    Wow this is depressing. I have medical issues that can cause body odor. The underlying conditions are under control and things are treated as best as possible. My go to offerings when odor comes up at a job are to use an air freshener at my desk and to periodically shower at the office (on the clock) and leave my hair wet after so folks see me with wet hair while still having odor issues. If this site had it’s way I wouldn’t be able to do either.

    FWIW, I’ve never had anyone complain about wet hair at any time office where I’ve showered and I deliberately leave it pretty wet in these cases.

    1. Mary*

      Wet =/= damp. If your hair is wet enough that you’re dripping or “drowned rat”, then yes, that will read as unprofessional in some vocations.

  79. tangerineRose*

    #2 There may be ways to have Todd do a bit more work to save you time. When he says “Does this sentence I wrote make sense?”, can he email you the question and maybe the context? When he’s asking about numbers, can he give you a list of what he’s tried so far?

    Also might be useful to get Todd to help write some doc on what he’s learning.

  80. Erin*

    I say bring the cup and change nothing! I do the same with my daughter’s more silly Good to Grow character topped juices and stick in the water bottle side of work bag. Especially if you are in a role where it has seniority or status, I think it’s relevant to bring your whole self to work and also not have car smell. I’m the first director at my practice and I have full serious work discussion while I’m holding a Paw Patrol juice cup – I think it reminds people more I’m a person with full life AND it opens conversations with other departments parents on various Paw Patrol preferences or a deep conversation about their R&D funding.
    I could be wrong – maybe I’m uniquely positioned in a company where this wouldn’t be an issue. My work does tend to intrude on non-work hours a lot so I want subtle reminders I’m a mom of toddler so 6:00 pm – 8:00 pm most time is off-line.

  81. Hedgehug*

    For LW#1
    Get one of those desktop tiny fridges that hold like 4 cans of Coke. I think they plug in via USB. Put her sippy cup in there.

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