trainer had religious messages on his presentation screen, did my son’s friend’s dad share confidential data, and more

by Alison Green on September 20, 2024

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. Trainer had religious messages on his presentation screen

I attended a multi-day training a few months back where the trainer who was running the presentations had extreme religious images/quotes as his laptop background, so every time they were between presentations, the image was projected on the screens at the front of the classroom. If the images/quotes had been of the “love thy neighbor” type, I probably would’ve clocked it as not the most appropriate in a professional environment but also pretty harmless. The message was not this. It was “the wages of sin is death,” we’re all sinners who will burn in hell if not for Jesus type of quotes, arranged in the shape of a large cross. It was … extremely unsettling.

I’m guessing someone said something about it, because about halfway through the training he switched his background to a generic Microsoft background. I had wanted to say something, but was unsure how to approach it since religion is such an individual and personal thing, and it felt weird as an attendee to ask the trainer to change his screen. How would one go about asking someone who is in a position of authority at least if not power to make such a change?

To make the question more interesting, I’m interviewing for a senior leader position next month, and that position supervises that particular trainer. If I were this person’s supervisor and saw that kind of religious message on his computer, how would I address it? If it’s just on his computer background and wasn’t projected to an audience, do you say nothing? If it were a less violent message, would it be okay if it were projected to an audience? Would a blanket “don’t have a religious background when projecting to an audience at work” rule be legally appropriate? I know general expression of one’s religion in the workplace is protected and I would never want to single someone out for their religious beliefs, but this feels different.

Wow, yeah, that’s wildly inappropriate. You weren’t there for religious proselytizing; you were there for a work training.

You were absolutely entitled as a training participant to speak up and ask him to change it. One way to do it would be to talk to him privately on a break and say, “I don’t know if you realize your screen background has religious quotes, but I’d appreciate if you’d change it to something neutral since we’re here for a work training.” On the other hand, you’d also be on solid ground in speaking up during the class itself and saying, “I find that background really distracting and off-topic. Could it be changed?” (Personally I’d do that one because I think there’s value in other people seeing pushback on this stuff, and I also wouldn’t want to sit here with it for hours before an opportunity to talk to him privately, but I’m also less shy about making a scene over this sort of BS than many people are.)

As his manager, it would be 100% okay to require that all your trainers use neutral presentation backgrounds with no personal messages on them (this would cover not just religion, but sports, politics, marijuana leaves, and on and on).

2. Should I report my son’s friend’s dad for sharing confidential student data?

I teach history an elite prep school (something akin to Chilton for you Gilmore Girls fans out there). Thanks to tuition discounts that faculty receive, my son “Jack” is able to attend and is in the fifth grade. The school does standardized testing twice a year. During the most recent round of testing, Jack was sick and did not perform his best. My husband and I chose not to show him his test scores because he’s a perfectionist and we knew it didn’t reflect what he is capable of. Recently, I overheard his best friend, “Milo,” teasing him because Milo had outscored him on the test. He knew Jack’s scores in specific categories and was able to compare them to his own.

Given that Jack had no idea what his score was, Milo had to get the information somewhere else. I strongly suspect Milo learned the scores from his father, who works for the school in IT. His father has the ability to access grades and test scores that others can’t.

Here’s my dilemma — do I report my suspicions? On the one hand, Milo’s father is potentially sharing confidential information with students, which is a fireable offense. On the other hand, if Milo’s father loses his job, there’s no way their family can afford to continue to send Milo to our school. We’ve discussed our financial circumstances before, and the fact that our children can only attend due to our employment with the school. I don’t want Milo to suffer for his father’s mistake. I also have no proof, just my suspicions.

I think you should report it. Disclosing confidential student data is a really big deal, and if Milo’s father was truly oblivious enough to that that he’d disclose Jack’s data to Jack’s best friend (what did he think was going to happen?!), there’s a problem that needs to be addressed.

That said, you don’t actually know this came from Milo’s father. You only know that somehow Jack’s confidential data found its way to a schoolmate. Report that part of it, not the part you can’t prove. The school knows who Milo’s dad is, and if that is indeed what happened, they’re highly likely to be able to put it together themselves. But for all we know, it leaked out some other way — so just stick to the pieces you know for sure.

3. Why won’t people include my middle name?

My name is ​Alexandra Jane Smith, and I’m very attached to it in full. My first name is Alexandra, and that is what I introduce myself as, but I hate it when things are addressed to Alexandra Smith, or my name badge misses out Jane. I know this is a small thing, but it’s my name! It’s particularly frustrating when I get official or important documents without my middle name. ​

​Any suggestions on how to approach this, or just accept my fate as Alexandra (Jane) Smith?

Yeah, if you introduce yourself as Alexandra and you go by Alexandra, you’re going to get addressed as Alexandra (or Alexandra Smith) and Alexandra (or Alexandra Smith) will be on your name badge … since most people don’t use their middle names except on extremely formal legal documents (and often not even then).

You can certainly try to head it off beforehand by letting people know, “I prefer my full name, Alexandra Jane Smith, on documents/name badges.” That will work some of the time, but it won’t work all the time.

Even if you went by Alexandra Jane, you’d still be fighting an uphill battle — ask all the Mary Janes who find Mary on their name tags, or all the people with hyphenated last names who find only half of their last name printed.

It’s perfectly fine to have the preference! But you’ll be happier if you accept that, realistically, your preferences are different from the naming conventions people are used to.

4. Can I put relevant jobs first on my resume?

I did some health counseling work decades ago, and started again during the pandemic for a major hospital system. In between I did a variety of things totally outside the health-related field. As I try to get back into health-related jobs, can I list my work experience by relevant experiences first, and then fill in the rest underneath? Like so:

RELEVANT WORK EXPERIENCE:
2020-2023 – relevant health-related job
1997-2004 – relevant health related job
1992-1997 – relevant health related job
2004-2020 – list other non-health-related jobs here

Would that seem weird on a resume? I’m concerned that a quick glance won’t show me off in the best light if I list the jobs chronologically.

It’s completely normal to separate out relevant experience and list it first, when some of your recent work history is really unrelated to what you’re applying for now. You just need an additional heading in the other for the less relevant jobs, like this:

RELEVANT EXPERIENCE:
2020-2023 – relevant health-related job
1997-2004 – relevant health related job
1992-1997 – relevant health related job

OTHER EXPERIENCE:
2004-2020 – list other non-health-related jobs here

Also, you don’t need to go back 20 years. Feel free to stop at 12-15, depending on what produces the strongest resume. (It’s also okay to go back further for the relevant jobs while only including the more recent non-relevant ones.)

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  2. Nodramalama*

    I know this isnt really the point, but I do not understand what “the wages of sin is death” even means. Your pay for sin is death?! I did not think sin killed people.

    For LW2 I’d be very careful in the way you report. You don’t really know how this got out. Is it possible jack found out by himself?

    2. here for the food*

      Often death and life are used as synonyms for hell and heaven, respectively. So, yes, what one earns for sin is death in that person’s viewpoint.

    3. Daria grace*

      #1 along with insisting on neutral backgrounds for people you manage doing presentations, it might be worth having discussions about mindfulness around everything that might become visible on screen while presenting. Theres also sorts of problem stuff that can end up on screens like personal emails or teams messages with confidential content. If they’re oblivious about the background they might be about other things

    4. Adult ADHDer*

      Basically, yes — the “payment” you receive (i.e. your punishment) for sinning will be death. The most common conventional interpretation of the passage is that it refers to spiritual death, not literal death, although I’ve heard both explanations.

    5. Daria grace*

      There’s a lot of theological nuance around the verses quoted here but a common understanding is that humans collective rebellion against God introduced death and suffering into the world and caused an estrangement from God that requires Jesus death and resurrection to overcome. It’s not so much about individual sins physically killing you.

  3. MK*

    #2, OP I would start with your son. Is it possible that he asked for his test scores and was told? Also, did Milo actually know his exact test scores, or just that he outscored your son? Because if your parents aren’t showing you your test scores, it’s pretty obvious that you didn’t do well.

    1. Nodramalama*

      Yeah I’d at least consider the possibility that Jack has either found out his results through some other way, or the kids have intuited they weren’t as good

      1. MassMatt*

        It’s possible, but it’s not the LW’s job to figure all this stuff out. If this person is in IT he has the responsibility not simply to not disclose confidential info, but to keep it secure. There was a breakdown here, so bad the precautions were broken by a literal child.

        I would definitely report it.

        1. Nodramalama*

          My whole point was that this could have happened entirely unrelated to milo’s dad accessing and then telling his son confidential information. And in that case, yes, I do kind of think LW should make some inquiries before risking someone’s job possibility necessarily.

          1. Observer*

            And in that case, yes, I do kind of think LW should make some inquiries before risking someone’s job possibility necessarily.

            Nope. The LW is in no position to find out anything substantive.

            What they DO know is that Milo was given information that should have been confidential. The LW *needs* to report that because however it happened was a problem and the only people who can figure out what happened are the school’s staff /consultants.

            And the risk to everyone from that kind of data breach is just too significant to brush it under the rug.

            1. A teacher*

              Perhaps poster #2 could start by first asking their son how he found out his score. I know in my own school it wouldn’t be uncommon for teachers to give students their scores. That seems like a logical first step before jumping to making a report.

              1. Observer*

                The LW posted in the comments.

                LW 2* and LW2*

                They overheard the conversation. Milo knows the scores. And Dad, it turns out, has a history.

                1. Brett*

                  Milo could know the scores for any number of reasons that are not violations of privacy. For example, Jack might have requested his score and then told classmates. Why wouldn’t the LW just say “hey Jack, how did Milo know he scored better than you?” and find out additional information that’s readily at hand?

                  Maybe there’s a normal explanation. Or maybe Jack will say that Milo’s dad told him. Whatever the case, it would be useful info to include in the complaint if one is warranted.

                2. Myrin*

                  @Brett, Jack did not request his score and OP did ask Jack about how Milo even knows about this. She explains that in one of the comments Observer refers to:
                  “Jack was upset and embarrassed and definitely had no knowledge of the scores prior to that moment. I talked to Jack afterward and asked if he knew how Milo found out Jack’s scores. Jack said he was too flustered in the moment to think to ask it.”

            2. Stipes*

              It wasn’t a problem if LW’s son found out his own scores and shared them with his friend. It’s not unreasonable to say LW should rule out that possibility before reporting.

        2. Punk*

          It actually is the LW’s job to know what they’re talking about before they get someone in trouble with his employer. Test scores are not confidential to the kid who took the test and it’s entirely reasonable that Jack found out on his own.

        3. Inkognyto*

          Correct. I work in information Security and this type of leak means someone who had access to the scores informed someone else.

          How it got to the Milo is important, but they are blameless in all of that, they are children.

          Why is it important? It’s a test score, these are student records. What else is in that record? Often lots of personally identifiable information, which isn’t to be shared.

          This is an abuse of responsibility and even if nothing is done about it visibly, it’s now logged that this information got out due to the report. IE they don’t find out who/how etc. Now later on its reported by someone else, that means it can be tracked down.

          It might be someone else who told Milo, either way it happened. Maybe IT for the school supports high school also or middle school as it’s one big network. They might have access to all kinds of stuff.
          There’s an integrity that’s required when you have access to privileged information and this is one of those.

        4. Clisby*

          But we have no idea whether Milo’s dad actually passed on confidential information.

          Honestly, that seems like a really strange interpretation.

          It doesn’t sound like OP has asked his/her son about this – that’s the place to start.

      2. dontbeadork*

        Jack could very easily have asked his teacher or his counselor for his scores. Heck, the school may well hand them out to the kids during home room, although you’d think the OP would know that’s the case, unless they teach higher grades and are unclear what happens with those scores at the lower grades.

        I know that when I was in the classroom, we’d give the kids the standardized test scores for our particular cohort, so the English teachers gave them the reading/language arts scores and the math teachers told them how they did in algebra and so forth. They could get them from us or from the testing coordinator if they couldn’t track us down between classes.

      3. goddessoftransitory*

        My first thought was that Milo knows how to access them himself. Which is very double plus ungood! But if that is true Milo’s dad had better know posthaste and lock down his security at home.

    2. coffee*

      It could also be a good point to discuss with your son how your results will change depending on other things happening in your life, and how to healthily deal with not doing as well as you would like (growth mindset can be really helpful).

      I can see why LW2 didn’t tell their son the results, but that can accidentally reinforce that it’s a problem & had to be hidden away.

      2. Excel Gardener*

        As someone with some perfectionist and ocd tendencies, agreed. Trying to shelter him from this will reinforce the problem and prevent him from leaving to tolerate the discomfort of not doing as well as he’d hoped.

      3. Tupac Coachella*

        Love this comment, as someone with a background working with first year college students. Some of my most challenging students were young adults who were never allowed to fail productively-to be allowed to not be perfect and have it treated as a neutral learning opportunity to manage any consequences and grow from it. The first time they didn’t do well, they panicked. It was much harder to get those students to understand that of course they were going to struggle sometimes because they’re doing something new. Risk aversion is a big reason why many talented and capable students drop out.

        1. Bananananana*

          Agreed! I think as parents (or anyone who interacts with children) it’s important to share our own failures and how we learn and grow. It’s healthy mentally to accept that you won’t do everything correctly the first time, or fifth or tenth.

          1. goddessoftransitory*

            Agreed with this and this thread in general! It is absolutely no fun to do poorly or disappoint yourself, but it does happen, and learning to cope and healthy strategies for improvement (as opposed to self-flagellation and depression/anxiety) are one of the most important coping skills to learn.

            Life is going to happen. There is no shelter that can keep it out, nor is any child so special/perfect/gifted that they will avoid all disappointment or failure. Insisting that this isn’t true does no favors for children or parents.

        2. Manic Sunday*

          I saw the same kind of struggles when I taught first-year college students. Many of them were very anxious about losing a few points over an assignment turned in half a day late, or about getting a B- on a rough draft when they were used to straight As in high school, or about me refusing to characterize an absence as “excused” even though university policy allowed for two unexcused absences without penalty. I always felt one of the most important things I was teaching them was that they could be successful in college without being perfect all the time. And that the grading scale explicitly says the B range is considered “good,” so take the B and carry on! These were things I had to learn the very, very, very hard way at their age. Paralyzing fear of imperfection and the drive to impress my parents almost caused me to flunk out of college.

    3. Tinkerbell*

      A basic “good job, son, you beat your friend!” Would be one thing – still inappropriate, but I know competitive parents who wouldn’t blink at this at all. Telling his son your kid’s actual scores is a whole other level beyond inappropriate, though!

      1. MK*

        My point was that this parent might not have told his son anything at all. OP didn’t hear the boys discuss her son’s specific scores. If his son was told his scores and OP’s son wasn’t, it doesn’t take a deductive genius to realize OP’s son didn’t do as good.

        1. ASD always*

          LW says “[Milo] knew Jack’s scores in specific categories and was able to compare them to his own”.

          1. KateM*

            But as pointed out above, Jack could have asked the teacher etc for his own scores and compared those with Milo.

            1. Myrin*

              OP actually overheard the conversation between the two boys, though – wouldn’t it have been obvious whether Jack knew his scores (like he was very surprised OR not at all to hear what Milo said, for example)?

        2. C*

          > it doesn’t take a deductive genius to realize OP’s son didn’t do as good

          This really is not as obvious as you think. There are any number of reasons to not tell your child the number they got on a test!

          In addition to the reasons I gave in a previous comment, if the child is inappropriately fixated on scores and grades the parents might keep the exact number hidden because it’s better the kid hears “you’re fine” than stays up three nights berating himself for getting a 97 instead of a 100.

          1. KateM*

            I suspect that the most common reason for a kid to be inappropriately fixated on scores is that a grown-up has taught them that. Maybe it would be better to fight that?

            1. Not a Vorpatril*

              The education system creates that fixation in students pretty well as a standard for any perfectionist kiddo. I’m not sure whether the OP is in the right about hiding things, but she certainly should know her kid better than us, and it is not unheard of for kids having rather extreme reactions to that type of info.

              1. Irish Teacher.*

                And some kids are just born perfectionists. My sister was. My parents never pushed us at all, but my mum says even when she was a baby/young toddler, she was looking at me and my brother, clearly resenting that we could walk and she couldn’t.

                Even our parents telling her it didn’t matter how she did/things weren’t a competition made it worse because she seemed to take that as “they are reassuring me because they think I am stupid and won’t do well.”

                She has also always been extremely competitive even about board games. I’m sure she used to cheat but I’m not sure ’cause I didn’t really care enough to bother paying attention. Her partner says she still is and even gets competitive when playing with their 6 year old.

                1. Falling Diphthong*

                  One of my kids is a born perfectionist. It really is hard-wired into some. And how to work with that mindset takes a lot of maturity and practice that 10 year olds don’t have yet.

                  (My second child was really chill, which threw us off parenting wise because we had developed our skills on a high strung perfectionist.)

                3. A Simple Narwhal*

                  Totally this. My coworker was talking about her two high school-aged kids, and one had a full-blown panic attack because the system accidentally calculated their final exam score wrong (like a 75 question test was calculated out of 100 so their score was 75/100 when it should have been 75/75), whereas her other child is barely scraping by academically and isn’t concerned at all.

                  And she says it’s always been like this – one kid was obsessed with getting perfect grades, the other never really caring too much.

                4. Kyrielle*

                  I’m an only child, and a couple of my parents’ favorite stories about me make it very clear I was a perfectionist from the get-go.

                  1) They were concerned I stood a few times, took a step, fell down, and didn’t try to walk again. Until Dad happened to walk past the window to the room with my crib while I was supposed to be napping, only to find me doggedly practicing walking with my hand on the railing.

                  2) I spoke single words, but didn’t progress from them quickly, until suddenly I busted out a whole and grammatically correct sentence. Guarantee you, though I have no memory of it, that I was practicing that sometime unobserved too.

                5. littlehope*

                  Yeah, my younger sister is the same. My parents spent her childhood trying desperately to deescalate her perfectionism and competitiveness and general anxiety, and they were never really able to. It’s just how she is.

                6. Dawbs*

                  My kid (who is autistic, but we didn’t know it at the time. Its a little relevant though) failed all the standardized reading evaluations in first grade because of “perfectionism”:
                  1- thibgs on the desk were crooked and that had to be fixed before she could start (timed) test
                  2- she felt the bubbles had to be filled in perfectly (time!)
                  3- there were phonetic questions and she refused to pick any answer if she felt there was more than one correct answer. (FTR, she was kindacright. On some she was told she could pick more than one but she insisted test questions are only allowed to have 1 right answer)

                  Bless that first grade teacher who called us at home before we read the standardized email to reassure us we had the best reader in the class.
                  Teacher had already made sure that the school wouldn’t be making the kiddo have reading interventions, etc.

                  I’m quite sure we didn’t teach her that perfectionism…. but I’m also very sure we didn’t tell her how she did in that test- because she’d have gone into an anxiety spiral.

                  it’s amazing how flexible and moldable little minds are…. its amazing how inflexible and set little minds are.

                  (Fwiw, it’s still a trait, we just have more tools with age. I literally, before posting, walked out of the kid’s room, where she is working on a 9th grade English essay. She’s been staring at a blank screen for 25 minutes because it’s hard to start if that first sentence is “wrong” (to many right answers in the humanities dune days. I just had to have (again) the “do a rough draft. Rough drafts are supposed to suck. They don’t even need to be complete sentences” talk.
                  (she’ll come out of it with an excellent essay and an impressed teacher. But I’ve been trying to make her ok with getting Bs for years now! )

              2. Dahlia*

                Also it’s standardized testing. That’s not actually the kind of test that proves that they understand the material they’ve been learning or shows their personal improvement or anything. It’s not the same as the quiz in their math class.

            2. oy and vey*

              Children are competitive beasts. All you need is one kid to say, “I’m better than you because ….”, and then some of the kids will develop fixations.

            4. Laura*

              My son has been like this basically from day one. Not consistent with how we parent him, not consistent with how his schools operate. He’s just very internally fixated on being as good as possible. I was the same way (again, due to internal drive, not my parents or teachers) and his perfectionism is something we are actively working on.

              1. Unexpected perfectionist*

                I’m in my late thirties and only just learned that “as good as I can” is in fact perfectionism! I heard so much about how it was OK to not be perfect as long as you tried your best, so I was SURE I wasn’t a perfectionist. Having someone to counteract that messaging they way it sounds like you are doing, and even suggest that sometimes NOT doing your best is perfectly reasonable, would have saved me some serious anguish.

                1. Snarl Trolley*

                  “I’m in my late thirties and only just learned that “as good as I can” is in fact perfectionism!”

                  Mid-thirties here and just learned this…right now. My god.

            5. Sar*

              Sounds like you don’t have a Virgo in the house.

              Signed,
              I refuse to show my 10 yo her hippie dippie school’s “progress reports” because she came out of the womb like this and we’re trying to fight it

          2. Irish Teacher.*

            Yeah, I’ve heard a number of people say their parents never told them things like their IQ score because they were exceptionally good and they were afraid the kid would lord it over others or that they wouldn’t bother making an effort in class, thinking they were so smart they could pass without working and the person only found out as an adult that they had say an IQ in the gifted range.

            1. Great Frogs of Literature*

              Heck, I was IN gifted classes and have no idea what I scored on the tests to get there. My parents wanted me to have appropriate support. They didn’t care about specific numbers.

              1. blueberry muffin*

                There is no reason to doubt that your parents didn’t care about specific numbers. You also did not know what your number were. That being said, by virtue of being in IN gifted classes meant your numbers were higher than some of the other kids. Somebody knew what the numbers were.

            2. PhyllisB*

              It’s funny you bring up IQ because my mother refused to tell me what mine was and I always got the impression it was on the low side because of the way she mentioned it when I asked. “It doesn’t matter what your IQ score is!!” said in a tone like don’t ask again!! I never thought about again for years, and obviously whatever it was it didn’t hold me back, but I’ve always been curious.

              1. Huttj*

                So my parents both knew how overapplied overvalued and overemphasized IQ scores are. My mother even got her degree in educational testing stuff.

                My brother and I were tested as a matter of course to check for stuff and make resources available, but all we were told was “above average, and people put way too much stock into the number.”

            3. Dek*

              I knew my IQ from a test score as a kid, but all it ever really emphasized to me was that IQ scores were kinda meaningless.

          3. TheBunny*

            I think it depends how you have handled it in the past.

            If you sometimes tell and sometimes don’t, there’s some deniability.

            But if you always share the scores with the child and don’t this time? Yeah it doesn’t take a genius.

          4. Learn ALL the things*

            I was identified as “gifted” at a young age, and I was absolutely the type of smart kid with low social skills who wouldn’t realize that it’s not good manners to tell everybody else how smart I was, so my parents very wisely did not tell my my actual IQ score, just that I’d been accepted into the program.

            Doing poorly isn’t the only reason a parent might choose not to share specific scores with their kid.

          5. MK*

            A child who is inappropriately fixated on grades would definitely assume the scores were bad. And if my parents were giving me some convoluted explanation about how they didn’t want me to focus on scores or be obnoxious to other kids, I frankly would assume the same.

    4. C*

      There are any number of reasons parents might not show their kids their test score without the child doing poorly. For example, they might be trying to discourage their child from focusing on the scores, or they might want to keep the kids from bringing up their scores in an obnoxious way to their siblings or other children, or the parents might not think the scores, good or bad, are an accurate or valid measurement.

      1. KateM*

        Yes, but such parents would never show the kid their scores – they would not “choose not to show him his test scores [this time] because he’s a perfectionist”.

      2. Myrin*

        That might be true in general but probably not in this particular case – it sounds like OP usually does show Jack his results so if she suddenly deviates from that, Jack’s likely conclusion will be that he didn’t do well (unless they had discussed beforehand that starting now, they’re not going to share his results with Jack, but it doesn’t sound like that was the case, either).

    5. Nice cup of tea*

      OP 2

      Personally my view is that those test scores are your son’s information, not yours.

      I find it disturbing that there is even an option for parents to know them and not the child.

      As for the friends father, I would speak to him directly. It is serious if he has been sharing confidential data. Given the situation with your child being friends with his child I think talking to him about your concerns (without making accusations) would be a good place to start.

      No one else has considered that one of the boys may have found or hacked the data. Perhaps its a simple as your son’s score was written down on his paper and the other child saw it in class. Perhaps the child takes after his father and used his IT skills to hack the system.

      Does your son even care if his friends know?

      1. anonymous 5*

        I agree that a kid’s school performances are their own…but FERPA is a pretty big deal. So reporting to the school that your kid got information from somewhere other than you is reasonable here. Especially if there’s a chance that a school employee is sharing the info. How kids handle information is one thing, but the school employees might need a refresher on what’s okay (or not) to share.

        1. A Girl Named Fred*

          I don’t fundamentally disagree with you, but I do want to point out that FERPA wouldn’t prevent Jack from learning about his own academic records. If he asked a teacher or admin for that info, they’re totally fine to give it to him per FERPA. The problem would be if Milo was told Jack’s scores without Jack’s consent.

          1. Hyaline*

            Right—Jack “owns” this info so could have asked a teacher or other staff member. The school might have additional policies requiring notifying parents of requests like this, but Jack actually has a right to his record. How Milo knows is still unclear—for all we know, Jack himself could have told him.

        2. Nice cup of tea*

          I agree its a big deal – if it happened.

          However if I thought a family friend could get sacked over it I personally would risk speaking to them first.

          I wouldn’t want my kid to end up with no friends over this.

          It might be technically the wrong thing to do, but I’m comfortable with doing what I think is the right thing.

          I doubt that kids dad is going to report me for not reporting him.

          Kids dad may not be involved.

          Even if kids dad gets suspended and then cleared, it will cause massive upset for 2 kids over information that in the end is actually pretty trivial.

          1. Observer*

            However if I thought a family friend could get sacked over it I personally would risk speaking to them first.

            Essentially, you are putting your friend’s job over the security and safety of the school and every student at the school.

            information that in the end is actually pretty trivial.

            No. The issue is not that one grade. It’s that *someone* is accessing a system that should secure and sharing confidential information. There is absolutely *no* reason to believe that the only information that will be shared will be the occasional grade of one or two kids.

            1. Despachito*

              “Even if kids dad gets suspended and then cleared, it will cause massive upset for 2 kids over information that in the end is actually pretty trivial.”

              I agree with this. We are still just assuming. We don’t know for certain it was Milo’s dad, and the damage done IS trivial. It is possible that Jack asked a teacher what his results were (and in such a case he would be entitled to be told) and then shared with Milo. I would not risk someone’s livelihood over that. Definitely speak with Jack and possibly also with Milo’s father.

              1. StephChi*

                I’m a teacher. We take student information privacy very seriously, and even if FERPA doesn’t apply here, chances are this school has rules about who has a right to access individual students’ information. I’m not even privy to everything about my own students, by the way. Therefore, it is actually a big deal, because this time it’s only standardized test scores that have been leaked, but what about next time, when it’s classroom grades, or discipline records? Are you really OK with that information getting into the hands of someone who shouldn’t have it?

                1. Despachito*

                  This is still “what if”, that is not what happened.

                  I grew up knowing all my schoolmates’ grades because they weren’t treated as confidential. They were announced publicly, or we discussed them among ourselves, and it was a non-issue. I don’t remember teasing anyone for BAD grades (if something, it was more likely to tease people about GOOD grades). Disciplinary information was also more or less public because if you did something against the rules it was very likely your class witnessed it, and if they saw also you were punished for that it served as a sort of deterrent (or sometimes you became a hero for that).

                  So I am not very inclined to see leaking of information of that kind as something egregious because it was the norm for me. I would not particularly mind having my kids’ grades revealed. I would mind though if there was a leak of medical information or some private family stuff but that is not what happened.

                  I see as the biggest problem here the teasing. I know Milo is a kid and still learning, but it is up to the adults to explain to him that these things are just not done, to friends or otherwise.

                2. Dahlia*

                  Just because you don’t mind doesn’t mean that no one minds, and it doesn’t change the law.

                  And again these are not grades.

        3. anon4ny*

          Isn’t FERPA for public schools? I thought Jack and Milo went to an “elite” school, which presumably isn’t funded by the state/government?

          1. Feral FatCat*

            Basically all schools that are accredited receive federal funding in some way. You can assume any school is covered by FERPA.

              1. Observer*

                It’s not that simple.

                Simply put, FERPA applies to more schools than people realize. But also, there are other laws at play here, some of which are local.

                If a private school gets any federal education money, it’s covered by FERPA.

                2. Observer*

                  I did not say that every private school gets federal funding. But a LOT of them do.

                  It’s not always obvious, because the funding may be funneled through State or Local government agencies or private sector funders that are getting their money for a given program from the Federal government. Also, the money can be for specific programs, but still obligates the school.

                3. Mgguy*

                  Most schools will still follow FERPA, not only because it’s a good practice but also because federal funding can “sneak in” in some not so obvious ways.

                  I’m in higher ed, and it’s pretty clear cut there because nearly all schools have students(often the majority of students) receiving some sort of federal financial aid, and most will want to remain eligible for government grants even if they aren’t actively receiving them(in the sciences, NSF, NIH, and a few other 3-letter agencies like DOE, DOD, EPA, FDA and others funnel money in). The GI bill is a big deal, so a not insignificant amount of higher ed tuition money comes from the VA.

                  Has the school library ever received a gift/donation/grant from a federal agency? Has a local organization that may have received funding ever provided a program? Controversial as it may be, as best as I’m aware, DARE is still a big thing in US middle schools(we did it at my private middle school ~20 years ago), and there is federal funding associated with that.

                  It’s one of those things that’s almost impossible to avoid. Although not exactly comparable, a LOT of Federal laws cite the Commerce Clause as their authority. The commerce clause is supposed to only regulate interstate commerce, but it turns out that almost everything can be found to involve interstate commerce in some way. I seem to vaguely recall a Supreme Court case from years back(don’t hold me to specifics, and I’m not a lawyer so may well be missing some nuance on this) where a company argued that they sourced all their materials in-state and only sold in state, but it was still held that the commerce cause applied because people buying that company’s products were still affecting interstate commerce by NOT buying from other suppliers.

            2. Rara Avis*

              I included a link so my comment is delayed, but private schools (in the US) rarely receive any federal funding and are not subject to FERPA.

          2. Jaina Solo*

            I went to a Christian school and had to sign something about FERPA. I think it was the notification that they would follow it or whatever.

            That school may have received funding though so it could have been a requirement as a result of that.

      2. Snow Globe*

        I had the same thought. Going back *many* years; when I was in elementary school, the standardized test scores were provided by the teacher to all the students. And my own kids got their test scores before I did. I do think it is strange that the LW’s son wouldn’t (normally) know how he did unless he got it from his parent.

      3. Falling Diphthong*

        We’re talking about kids in elementary school. Where their ability to evaluate and apply an outsider’s assessment of their strengths and weaknesses is not going to be well developed.
        Child A: I have fallen short of perfection, I am carrying myself down a doom spiral now.
        Child B: Ha ha fart.
        Child C: Am I good? Or bad? Am I in trouble? I don’t want to be in trouble.
        Child D: I win! Time to rub it in.

        All of the above for the same test score.

        1. allathian*

          Yeah, this. I’m in Finland and here kids aren’t even graded beyond pass/fail until 4th grade. By then, they have access to the same system that the teachers use to communicate with parents, including all grades.

      4. Baunilha*

        Right, I was little confused by that. It’s been a long time since I’ve left fifth grade, but back then, we definitely got our scores written down. But my first step would be to ask the son.

        1. Academicpenguin*

          These aren’t test scores that affect their grades. Standardized testing twice a year is WILD (I thought my state doing annual testing pre-No Child Left Behind was unusually frequent), but it’s more like the SATs. Technically state testing is also an assessment of the school and teacher. Not sure how a private school would use twice a year testing; I don’t think there’d be an accreditation reason, but maybe there is.

      5. MK*

        I mean, OP’s son probably had the best access to these scores (found the envelope/looked the email up in mum’s laptop). I think it’s best to start with the son, then ask the friend’s father how his son could have found out the scores.

      6. Observer*

        Does your son even care if his friends know?

        That is totally not relevant. That data should not be out there. The fact that it is, is a major problem.

        Perhaps the child takes after his father and used his IT skills to hack the system.

        The school still needs to know about it. If a 5th grader can hack into the school’s grading system, something is VERY wrong.

        That might mean that someone on the IT decision-making side needs to go, rather than Milo’s dad. But whatever happened the school NEEDS to know.

    7. Hyaline*

      This could have even started BECAUSE Jack didn’t know his scores. Kids aren’t stupid. He probably knew he didn’t do great, might have shared that with his friends, and it was just confirmation when his friends all had their scores and he didn’t. Milo shouldn’t be teasing him and the school should do their best to shut down comparison, but it’s a weird jump to assume an adult looked up and shared the score.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        It sounds like Milo knew Jack’s exact results. Like Milo said, “ha, you only got 32% (or however the test is graded) on such a topic” and Jack was upset and asked his parent “did I really only get 32%?” in which case, it would be pretty likely that somebody must have told Milo, assuming 32% was exactly what Jack did get.

        1. metadata minion*

          Yeah, if Milo got the numbers from Jack, that’s fine, but the only other way he should have been able to get access to another student’s scores is by learning them from an adult who shouldn’t be sharing that information.

            1. ScruffyInternHerder*

              Bingo. The mini-Scruffs get their standardized test reports physically sent home with them, attached to a “here’s how you read this” white paper. Sure, the papers start stapled shut; they’re kids.

    8. LW2*

      LW 2 here. I unintentionally overheard Milo and Jack’s conversation because it happened at my house while I was in the next room. Jack was upset and embarrassed and definitely had no knowledge of the scores prior to that moment. I talked to Jack afterward and asked if he knew how Milo found out Jack’s scores. Jack said he was too flustered in the moment to think to ask it.

      1. LW 2*

        To clarify, at our school scores only go to the child’s guardian until they are in 7th grade. At that point both the child and guardian receive them. We normally share Jack’s scores with him, but he has anxiety and wants to score perfectly on everything. We told him that this test didn’t matter because he was sick and was not a reflection of his abilities. I didn’t want him feeling down on himself based on one bad day.

        1. Yadah*

          As a side note, I’d encourage you to share the scores with him with that same messaging of “you were sick and didn’t do your best, it’s ok” but I’d also add that even if it were a reflection of his abilities, it’s ok because his grades don’t define his value as a person.

          I was a perfectionist kid like your son and there were lots of subjects I effortlessly excelled in, but once I hit highschool math started to become a struggle.
          My parents were never mad or disappointed in me for not doing well, but because I’d always been a high achiever I felt so much shame around not doing well.

          I tried really hard but I still failed math and it was completely devastating to me in the moment but something I look back on as an incredibly valuable experience as an adult.

          Experiencing failure when I tried and wanted to do well allowed me to learn how to separate my value as a person from my grades and be way less afraid to fail as long as I was willing to pick myself back up and try again.

          It also helped me learn that choosing a path suited to my skill level isn’t a failure either, it’s a better way to learn. I looked at what I wanted to do with my time and I realized that calculus didn’t need to be in the cards. I took a simpler math course and did incredibly well because the learning pace was more suited to my needs – and I felt zero shame about doing that, but before I failed I absolutely would have.

          Failing was one of the best lessons I learned in high school and I would not have been able to pursue the career I now love without learning it.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        I would probably say to the school that they clearly have some kind of data leak because while you don’t know if it came from his dad, you know it reached the ears of your son’s fellow student, who used it for taunting purposes, and that’s alarming. It’s alarming whether Milo got it from a teacher, or his dad, or from papers left lying around; whatever happened it’s for the school to investigate and ensure your kid’s data is protected and kept confidential. Next time it might not be test scores, it might be images or sessions with counsellors, or his date of birth, or his address. I get that you don’t want to upend Milo’s life or access to education, but there’s a lot of other kids whose personal data is at risk here. Hopefully the school will show some leniency towards Milo, but I’d seriously consider reporting him.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          Oh and I’m sorry that everyone is just freely commenting on your parenting decisions! I always wonder if parents ever get used to people’s appetite for doing that.

          1. LW 2*

            Thanks. As an educator I try to remind myself regularly that there are many different ways to be a good parent and many good ways to handle the same parenting issues… but I’d be lying if I said some of these comments didn’t sting. I can handle professional critiques but the ones on parenting are a different story.

            1. AF Vet*

              Parent your kid(s) in the best way you can, making the best decisions for your family with the information you have. Others can have opinions… but only you (and your partner) can decide what is best for your family.

              And by the way… you’re doing a great job, Momma.

            2. Zelda*

              None of us have even met Jack. And Alison warned us right at the top not to debate religious views here. Amazing how many Crusaders for the Right to Know Scores we have anyway. Oy.

        2. Observer*

          <i.I would probably say to the school that they clearly have some kind of data leak because while you don’t know if it came from his dad, you know it reached the ears of your son’s fellow student, who used it for taunting purposes, and that’s alarming

          Yes. And it’s perfect example of how even a relatively small issue like a single test score can be an issue.

          Next time it might not be test scores, it might be images or sessions with counsellors, or his date of birth, or his address. ~~SNIP~~, but there’s a lot of other kids whose personal data is at risk here.

          Yes. This is the really important issue. And you simply cannot let the kids’ friendship stand in the way.

          Hopefully the school will show some leniency towards Milo, but I’d seriously consider reporting him.

          The issue is not Milo but his dad, or whoever leaked the data.

    9. CareerChanger*

      Yes, I think it’s a pretty big leap from Milo “knows” the scores to Milo’s dad told him to reporting Milo’s dad. If it’s true, it’s a huge problem. But I strongly doubt it, not least because who would risk getting fired in order to share some juicy gossip with their 5th grader?

      1. LW 2*

        Milo’s dad is very competitive. I suspect there could be some motivation there. He was previously reprimanded for spying on a parent-teacher conference through security footage.

        2. Observer*

          OK, then you *really* need to report this.

          I agree with @AngryOwl that it’s surprising that he was not let go. But it also means that the school is not going to just going in with guns blazing. On the other hand this also means that he’s not just “competetive” but that he is breaking some really important boundaries.

          Like I said, I feel bad for the kid. But someone like that should absolutely NOT have access to kid’s educational records.

        4. Jennifer Strange*

          Oh, yeah, this information moves the needle against his dad. Either way, if Jack doesn’t know how Milo got the information you need to let someone know it was leaked out.

        5. Roy G. Biv*

          I actually said “WTF” out loud to this. Milo’s dad needs to stop being allowed access to confidential data — even if that means he loses the job.

        6. Jaina Solo*

          Even without this extra context, the fact that your son asked you for confirmation on his scores _after_ Milo commented on them was enough to confirm you should say something to your school. Breach of security/privacy is a big deal even if there aren’t federal guidelines like FERPA at play.

          I work in corporate training, and sometimes we have to assign extra training to people if an incident has occurred. I’m talking from low-stakes process mistakes to serious, potentially embarrassing topics like harassment. I refer to those assignments as “those we do not speak of” because regardless of the employee messing up on a simple process or a major violation, they still deserve dignity for my team to not just run around and share that info with everyone. What happened with your son is already bad, but I’m just imagining Milo’s dad in a corporate setting–he’d get fired so quickly for this kind of behavior or at least severely reprimanded. And I doubt that other adults he works with would respect him. But in this case, he’s doing it to a kid who has no recourse or protection outside of however you handle it.

          It’s never ok to run around and share someone else’s private info, outside of emergency scenarios.

        7. a trans person*

          Yeah, I think you should report. I have worked in both educational roles and data privacy roles and I feel very strongly about things like this. I would personally feel obligated to escalate this.

        9. Hyaline*

          That is bananacakes! Still–honestly–I wouldn’t start the convo with the school administration with “I think Milo’s dad is looking up other kids’ scores and disseminating them.” I’d just explain the conversation you overheard and ask if they have any insight into how Milo could have known Jack’s scores. Maybe there was another issue (kids getting a full roster of scores and sharing them…I’ve seen that happen…) or maybe there wasn’t, and they can be the ones to initiate an investigation if they think Milo’s dad is at it again.

        10. Red5*

          “Milo’s dad is very competitive. I suspect there could be some motivation there. He was previously reprimanded for spying on a parent-teacher conference through security footage.”

          Woah. LW2, I feel like you buried the lede here. Milo’s dad has a history of using his position at the school to inappropriately access data?! While we still can’t know with the information provided whether Milo got the information from his parent, I think you need to report this. If the information came from Milo’s father, he clearly learned nothing from his previous reprimand. What danger could he put students in by accessing information he has no legitimate reason to access?

        11. goddessoftransitory*

          WHOA OKAY that changes this whole convo! If he’s doing that, he cannot be trusted with the responsibilities of his job.

        12. allathian*

          That changes everything and you need to report it now. Even if it means that Milo’s dad might be fired and Milo has to go to another school.

          That might be all for the best, I don’t think that a kid with an ultra-competitive parent is the best possible friend for a perfectionist kid, even though I generally feel that parents shouldn’t interfere in their kids’ friendships unless there are serious issues like bullying or substance abuse.

    10. Observer*

      Also, did Milo actually know his exact test scores, or just that he outscored your son?

      The LW says that Milo knew his scores.

  4. Pink Sprite*

    For letter 3: If you’re not consistently introducing yourself as Alexandra Jane to everyone, every time, every kind of event and situation, and I mean 100% of the time, you are going to only be called Alexandra.
    And, unless you’re correcting people every single time, your wish is probably not going to happen.
    That’s just the way people are and remember names. Not calling you Alexandra Jane if it’s only on paperwork (and hoping it doesn’t say Alexandria), well, it just isn’t going to happen the way you want it to.

    1. many bells down*

      Yeah I work with a woman who has a double first name and even after 3 years on the job some people still just call her “Marie” and not “Marie-Claire”. She’s never introduced herself as Marie! I don’t know if it’s that double names are less common in America or what but it really bugs her.

      1. Rushy*

        I have the opposite. My first name is hyphened. I only go by first name and still everyone at work insists on using the full name. I don’t mind either way but using the full is defo the default.

        1. Salsa Your Face*

          My first and middle name have a sing-songy tone when they’re said together. Even though I only ever introduce myself by my first name, once people learn my middle name it’s all over–they love calling me by first and middle combined, and it spreads like wildfire.

      2. metadata minion*

        In the US it’s very regional — they’re moderately common in the South and as far as I know fairly rare everywhere else.

        1. Paint N Drip*

          There are many little pockets of that around! It’s not uncommon in French-speaking places – my mom’s family is from northern Maine, there is a ton of French (Canadian) influence/presence, and despite our family not being French at all about half of my extended maternal family have double-barrel names

          1. ScruffyInternHerder*

            Explains how I have one. I’d honestly never given it much thought.

            So few people have EVER used it that most people don’t even realize that I have a different middle name than what they’re assuming (they assume that Claire is my middle name; Katherine is actually my middle name!)

          2. sparkle emoji*

            Yeah, it’s reasonably common on the Irish American side of my family, lots of Mary Claire, Mary Kathrine, etc. Because of the Mary ____ formula, some will just drop the Mary and go by the middle name.

        2. Red Canary*

          My southern grandmother had a double-barreled first name; she went by the first part of her name in most situations, though. For double confusion, the first part of her first name is a common nickname– think Eliza for Elizabeth or similar– and people would sometimes try to put the “full” name on more formal documents, even though that wasn’t her name at all.

      3. Charlotte Lucas*

        I have a cousin who this happens to! And then people complain that it’s “too long.” She tells them to take it up with her mother.

      4. Laura*

        Yup, I have a coworker with a similar hyphenated name and people drop the second half all the time too. I think she had to battle with IT to have her full name as part of her email.

      5. PhyllisB*

        You must not live in the South. Here we are overrun with Ann Claire’s, Ann Catherines, and Mary Frances’s.
        My own in-laws insist on double naming me because I have a SIL with the same first name. I don’t really like it but I tolerate it because it makes sense. But yes, if she wants to be called Alexandra Jane she’s going to have to use the consistently.

      6. sparklemuffin*

        True story: at a previous job, I had coworkers all in the same department all at the same time with the following names:

        Carol
        Carol Ann
        Maryanne
        Mary Jean
        Mary Colleen
        Lisa Marie
        Rosemary

          1. Mary*

            I’m not going to use the real name, but when I was in high school I had a situation where we had:

            Chris C
            Chris C
            Chris W
            Christina

            They went by Chris Co, Chris Cu, Chris W and Tina.

      7. Buffy will save us*

        I have this exact problem. My name is a double first name, one word, no capital with the second word. Think Carolanne. My mother did that intentionally because she had sisters that had two word first names that were only called half their names and she wanted to make sure I was called the whole thing. Didn’t work. I’m called Carol. Anne. Carol Anne as if it was two words. Anne Carol. Carol Grace. Carol Beth. Annemeryl. People get it wrong even replying to emails where my name is RIGHT THERE.

      8. Zak*

        Australians will as a matter of habit shorten basically every name – so that someone introducing themselves as Johnathon would absolutely be responded to with “Nice to meet you John/Johno” 99% of the time. So there’s obviously cultural dimensions to this.

        1. Brisvegan*

          So true!

          I’m an Aussie Joanne. It’s routine for people to call me Jo or ask “Do you use Jo or Joanne?” when I am introduced.

          I actually prefer Joanne, but will go with the flow a lot of the time, because it’s not a strong preference and people are just being friendly.

    2. PH*

      I think LW3 can basically get what she wants if she introduces herself as Alexandra Jane the very first time she meets someone, or the first couple times, use it in her email signature, but then after a couple interactions just start signing emails “Alexandra” and see how it goes.
      In most normal circumstances at some point someone will ask you what you prefer to go by as for a lot of people it isn’t necessarily their legal first name.

      1. MAC*

        Even that only works some of the time. I have a double name first name, that is all one word with no space, but with the 2nd name cpaitalized (think BobbieJo). I use my middle initial in my email signature (BobbieJo D. Wisenheimer) and routinely people will respond with “Thanks, Bobbie”. I ALWAYS introduce myself as “BobbieJo” (because that’s my name) and 2 seconds later, they’re calling me Bobbie. If I do get both names used, it’s 50/50 whether they capitalize correctly or write/print my name tag as Bobbiejo. I correct people who I’ll be dealing with frequently, but otherwise I’m old and tired and just let it go. I am occasionally petty and simply pretend not to hear someone who tries to get my attention by calling me Bobbie, but that’s usually only with people who know better and willfully refuse to remember. They are out there!

      2. Andrew*

        Maybe it’s just me, but if someone signed their emails “Alexandra” (even if the signature says “Alexandra Jane”) I would absolutely start the next email with “Hi Alexandra” and not “Hi Alexandra Jane,” because in my mind, whatever someone is willing to sign off with is what they are willing to be called.

        1. Ali + Nino*

          100%, I take my cue from how the other person signs their email. This has come up when corresponding with people in Asia whose naming conventions (family name versus personal name) are different from my own culture’s.

        2. Anonym*

          Yep, this! If I’m not sure of someone’s preferred name, I go digging for emails from them. If you want to be called something, introduce yourself with it, sign your emails with it and gently correct when it makes sense to do so.

          And then make peace with the 30% or so of people who will still get it wrong. (Based on my experience with a name that has about three common variants, some folks will forever call you whichever of the other two belongs to someone they’re closer with in their life.)

        3. mlem*

          Absolutely. The name you introduce yourself with and sign emails with is a signal to others of what you want them to call you! It would be rude for me to override that with some other permutation.

        4. Gumby*

          Exactly. In fact, I’d say not just willing but *wanting* to be called what they sign off with.

          This is why I find emails from people with generic greetings and no signature ever so slightly annoying. I don’t know if we’re first naming each other or Ms. Gumby-ing it up. I always sign off with my first name but have to dance around the greeting as well until I get some sign from the other party what they want to be called.

      3. Smithy*

        I think it might work for some – but I do think that when it comes to names and name preferences, systems are both mechanical and human are so set to default settings that it’s really hard.

        We have a number of offices in Central and South America where it’s not uncommon for staff’s email address to list all of their names. Figuring out each individual’s preferred way to be called in a one to one conversation as well as named in email takes time, and it doesn’t always stick 100% perfectly for everyone. Particularly for colleagues we don’t work with regularly.

        I have a hyphenated surname – I am very familiar with good faith mistakes, bureaucratic systems not designed for hyphens, and bad faith mistakes. But looking for consistency is a losing battle when so many systems really are not set up for some relatively moderate changes from the norm.

    3. Tau*

      Honestly, I’m a little puzzled by OP’s insistence that the name should be there despite the fact that she never uses it in introductions. I never introduce myself with my middle name, and I do not WANT people to call me it or for it to show up on badges etc. That’s why I don’t introduce myself with it! The idea that someone should ignore what you’ve said you’re called, learn your full legal name and then just use that instead is pretty diametrically opposed to how names work in at least the cultures I’m aware of.

      OP, why don’t you introduce yourself as Alexandra Jane?

      1. Adam*

        I think because she doesn’t want to be called Alexandra Jane, but she does consider the Jane part of her full name. It’s like Helena Bonham Carter or whatever, I don’t think her friends call her Helena Bonham, but her full name isn’t Helena Carter.

        1. Nocturna*

          Helena Bonham Carter’s last name is “Bonham Carter” though, so that’s not really analogous to the LW’s situation, where they want a middle name included.

          I agree with others, LW, that if you want the “Jane” included, you do need to actually use it in introductions and the like. Otherwise the societal convention that middle names aren’t usually included is going to continue prevailing.

        2. PineRiver*

          I’ve only seen this in a few situations – famous actors (whose exact name is their brand), preppy ivy league frat boys whose social standing is based on who they’re related to, and a certain type of (usually black male) academic who would otherwise have a common name like John James Smith. The vast majority of people I can think of who go by three names are men, so I find it fascinating that OP3 doesn’t consider it a double-barreled first name!

          1. I should really pick a name*

            famous actors (whose exact name is their brand)

            It’s not necessarily a branding thing.
            The Screen Actors Guild doesn’t allow multiple members to use the same name professionally, so if your name is already in use, including a middle name is a common way to work around that.

            3. mlem*

              IIRC, David Hyde Pierce doesn’t like being called that; it’s his professional name for SAG reasons but not his preference.

        3. Emmy Noether*

          Isn’t Bonham Carter her last name? So in western name convention, you’d expect people to either call her Helena, or Ms. Bonham Carter.

          Can’t think of a celebrity using first-middle-last right now, but it’s different for celebrities anyway, because their name is their trademark.
          Which comes back to the same conclusion – LW, you need better marketing for better trademark recognition!

        4. ecnaseener*

          Since Bonham isn’t her middle name, that comparison doesn’t quite work. I’m sure there are actors who are known by first middle and last name, but I can’t come up with any, only more with two last names and some who use a middle initial.

          So I do think LW would need to make Jane part of her first name if she wants it used (somewhat) consistently. The convention is pretty solidly baked in to use first and last names only unless you’re filling out a form, swearing an oath, or scolding a child. Certainly if someone’s writing you a email from the directory or pulling personnel records to print badges, they’re not pulling the middle-name field.

            1. Clisby*

              Sarah Michelle Gellar, Sarah Jessica Parker, Anika Noni Rose

              I have no idea whether any of them are called by first name middle name, but that’s how they’re cited in cast lists.

              1. satc4eva*

                Sarah Jessica Parker’s friends call her Sarah Jessica (or SJ, if they’re in a hurry.). Never just Sarah.

          2. Jackalope*

            Millie Bobby Brown is the main one who comes to mind (now Millie Bobby brown Bongiovi, but I think she still uses her maiden name for acting? I could be wrong about that though).

      2. Emmy Noether*

        Yeah, I had the same reaction. LW, the answer to your question “Why won’t people include my middle name?” is: because YOU don’t even include your middle name!

        (Though even if you start including it, a lot of people still won’t. You’ll have to start very pointedly including it, and probably explicitly ask for it to be included).

      3. LW3 "Alexandra (Jane) Smith"*

        I don’t want people to call me “Alexandra Jane”, though some do, usually my mother when I’d done something wrong as a kid.
        I’m realising the battle is not worth it most of the time, but for important things like certificates and diplomas, I should check what they’ll say in advance, because that does matter.
        I also didn’t make it clear in my letter that the name badge in question usually has “Alexandra Smith” on it.

        Adam is spot on – I’m quite attached to my full name, and want it all to be used when appropriate. Perhaps more forms should have a box for Middle name!

        1. Nonsense*

          So why do you consider it appropriate in those circumstances? IME, things like school diplomas, licenses, and anything involving your SSN will include your middle name as it’s part of verifying protected information. Things like work certifications and especially conference badges don’t need to uphold that level of scrutiny so it is appropriate not to include a middle name. This is an issue of you needing to recalibrate your standard of what’s appropriate.

          2. Mints*

            Yeah this one is a little weird to me because you can absolutely decide your first name is Alexandra Jane, and insist on being called that. I have a coworker who has a hyphen Alexandra-Jane which I suspect she added later on in life. And when I first met her I said Alexandra, and she corrected me (nicely, and I happily took the correction). But I feel like adding a middle name isn’t entirely up to you. The name badge people decide whether they’re doing First Last or First M. Last or FIRST (last). Maybe because I’ve helped people create mail merges for this exactly, but it seems sort of difficult and unrealistic to change it for one particular person.

        2. Lady Lessa*

          It’s funny that I had the opposite problem. Growing up, (elementary school and younger) I went by my first name and middle initial. But being from the US South many people thought it was a double first name (and spelled that way.) Think P. vs Pea. I broke that habit when I went to a different school for 7th grade and up.

          In college, I considered going by my full middle name, Penelope, but realized it would be shortened, probably in a way that I didn’t care for, so I chose just to stick with my first name.

        3. Baela Targaryen (on Valyrian mobile)*

          This is just too much emotional labor / effort to expect from other people. They’re not going to intuit your wishes, and too be blunt: most won’t care. I’d recalibrate your expectations.

        4. Antilles*

          For formal documents like certificates and diplomas that you print once and have hanging on your wall forever, you’ll likely need to clarify in advance that you want your middle name. Even if they ask for your middle name as identification purposes, they’ll often default to either Alexandra Smith or Alexandra J. Smith because that’s the typical convention, but they won’t have any issues changing it as necessary if you ask upfront.
          As for conferences, I’ve been to a lot of conferences, meetings, etc where there are name badges and the only times I’ve ever seen a first and middle name is when the person actively goes by their middle name, e.g., Mary Jane.
          It’s understandable that you’re attached to your full name, but you do need to recognize that you’re an outlier here; outside of people who actually go by double names, most people’s middle names just aren’t particularly important to them and you can know someone for years and not know each other’s middle name. So society tends to follow that by not including middle names on things.

          1. Nocturna*

            Most people who go by two names aren’t using a first name and middle name; they have a double first name. People with a double first name can (and generally do) have a separate middle name as well (e.g., Mary Jane’s full name may be Mary Jane Elizabeth Smith).

        5. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          But what constitutes appropriate? There is no standard for which documents should have the full name and which ones generally don’t.

          This is very much a personal preference of yours and people are not mind readers. They won’t know which documents you want your full name and which ones you don’t. Unless you tell them. And even then you will get stuff with just your first and last name. You said you get mail that way. Well yes, because the convention for mail is the first and last name only. Anyone mailing something to you is unlikely to know your preference in advance.

          1. LL*

            Yeah, exactly. I like my middle name, but I personally prefer not to have it on things if possible, because my first and last name are alliterative and the middle names breaks that up. So I get annoyed when people add my middle name to things lol.

        6. Ellis Bell*

          I think when you categorise it as middle name, the convention is to ignore it so having it spelled out as a middle name on a form isn’t going to help you out much. The only time I have ever seen double names respected is when both names asserted to be your first name, that that’s what you go by all the time (including referring to yourself), and people are used to the combination as a first name. So, for example I grew up in a really Catholic area and it was common for boys of my generation to be named “John Paul” after the former pope. It was well understood that this was a completely different name to just “John” on its own and even though its spaced out in writing it was said all in one go without pausing like, “Johnpaul”. If I had called out “John to one of these guys he wouldn’t have responded or he would have corrected me by saying “My name is John Paul”. The only comparable female names in our area were Rose Marie and Ann Marie, and they tended to have to do more corrections and stick to their guns slightly more than the John Pauls.

          2. doreen*

            And even Rosemarie , Annemarie , Roseann, Joanne etc. often get spelled as one word to avoid needing corrections. Because many people are going to read those as two separate names when written as two words.

        7. doreen*

          There’s absolutely nothing wrong with your preferences – but it’s a bit unrealistic to introduce yourself by your first name and want your full middle name used “when appropriate” when you don’t agree with the conventions about when it’s appropriate . There are conventions about certain situations, like diplomas- if your name is Kathleen, your records will say Kathleen even if you go by Kathy, even if you want the records to say “Kathy” .If you register for college using your middle name/initial , that is most likely what your diploma will say. But if you get a certificate for completing some sort of training at your job, it will most likely not have your middle name/initial nor will name badges. Not unless you go by “Alexandra Jane” every day, in which case it is functionally a two-word first name -and even that might not work depending on who is making up the name badges and the name ( It probably works better for Jo Ann than it would for Josephine Ann)

        8. Nancy*

          I use my middle name on documents and IDs because it’s just as important to me as my first and last name. It’s not a double-barreled name or second last name, and no one calls me by it. I just filled out documents with my middle name included, and requested it to be included when I needed to. I have it on my work ID, driver’s license, passport, every diploma I have, papers I have coauthored, and my email signature. So you either need to include it on the form or specify, depending on the situation. I never found it to be difficult.

          1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

            Same. I like having my middle name included, but it’s on me to make sure the forms/etc. actually have my middle name, and for me to specify I want it there if I’m not sure it will be otherwise. I’ve never had a problem getting my middle name included. My hyphenated last name, on the other hand…I’m like, dude, the two names are LITERALLY connected, this should not be hard.

            In college I tried to go by my first name + middle name, but there was just too much overlap in my life with people who only knew me by my first name to make it stick. Similarly, I’ve learned to just answer to part of my last name in situations like doctor’s offices/etc.

            At least I don’t have my brother’s problem of having the same first name as our dad, and therefore going by my middle name.

          2. Texan In Exile*

            (I believe middle name is required for passport and license. That is, legal name is required. There’s even a box on the Wisconsin voter registration page to check if you *don’t* have a middle name. Otherwise, you have to include it.)

            1. Nancy*

              Middle name is optional in my state, or at least was when I applied for a license. I got a passport years ago so can’t remember if it was required or not.

        9. Sangamo Girl*

          I cheat it by putting my middle name in the first name slot. So instead of FN: Sally MN: Parker LN: Jones I always fill out documents as FN: Sally Parker LN: Jones. My middle name is a surname but I always want it used and it’s not my last name. It works 90% of the time.

          But at the end of the day, if my paycheck, retirement, and social security are correct, I don’t sweat it too much.

          1. It's in the spreadsheet*

            I was coming here to suggest this too. I work in IT, when I generate lists of names, whatever’s in that first name field will be in the first name area on the name tag. Please don’t mess with legal documents, but if you’re registering for a conference, do like Sangamo Girl.

          2. Ann O'Nemity*

            This is the way.

            I work at a university where a lot of faculty use three-part names. Walter James Smith, Isabel E. Lopez, etc. They’ve built reputations in their field, they publish under these three-part names, and they want that version of their name to be reflected in directories, email addresses, name tags, etc. The easiest way for IT to handle this is to put the first two names (e.g. Walter James or Isabel E.) in the field for first name. That way the systems get it right. And in casual conversation, it’s just Walter and Isabel.

        10. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          I think part of the disconnect here is when use of a full legal name is considered “appropriate”. Most people don’t see a name badge at a conference as being the sort of formal situation that requires it. If I saw “Alexandra Jane Smith” on a name badge I would expect the person wants to be addressed as Alexandra Jane. It’s not a legal document like a diploma!

          1. Zak*

            But how would you distinguish

            Firstname: “Alexandra Jane” Lastname: “Smith

            from

            Firstname: “Alexandra” Lastname: “Jane Smith”

        11. Smithy*

          I think the challenge you’re running into here is that your “appropriate” is just not going to be other people’s. At the workplace, I think the best time to advocate for this is honestly when you get your email address. It’s a single moment of strong advocacy, and may help make this repetitive visual for those who would be likely to catch this as a preference. Won’t fix it for everyone or every situation, but it would make sure you’re in the system with your preferred name.

          I have a hyphenated surname. While ID and Passport systems include the hyphen as is on my birth certificate – airline systems still don’t allow for the inclusion of characters like hyphens and apostrophes. Therefore my ID and my airline tickets technically never match and say Smithjones instead of Smith-Jones. On occasion when others have booked tickets for me – they’ve put Smith as my middle name which makes flying REALLY difficult.

          I’m not sharing this as some kind of “other people have it so much worse than you” – but more so to flag how many people with name variations or preferences just slightly outside the norm are not accommodated. Best recommendation is truly to find the moments where that louder/pushier advocacy makes a more significant difference and time when it bothers you less to let it go.

          1. Rara Avis*

            A previous renter of my house has a double last name in the Hispanic tradition. The USPS cannot deal with it! Mail came for him in all versions of the name: Hernandez, Perez, Hernandezperez, Hernadez Perez, Hernandez-Perez. His forwarding order was basically useless and we got all his mail. (Yes, we labeled it “return to sender” and put it back out.)

          2. LL*

            I had a job for about a year and a half that involved making sure names in an academic database were correct (e.g. matched what was on the article or book that the author published). Since we are in the US where the predominant name convention is one first name, one middle name, one last name and to not use special characters, older iterations of our database weren’t programmed to include anything that differed from that.

            It was a gigantic pain in the neck to go back and fix names of people from other cultural backgrounds or who had names in non-English languages, when this could have been solved by making the system inclusive from the start.

            It’s a huge problem and is something we need to get better at as a society.

            1. Smithy*

              Completely agree.

              As mentioned above, as someone with a US passport and two surnames that are fairly straightforward in Roman character languages (i.e. Smith-Jones) – I know there have been times that I’ve been given grace when those with different Passports and other cultures must struggle immensely. Because it ultimately becomes a mix of the technical limitations of the system, and then how different individual humans approach the limitations.

        12. Aggretsuko*

          I’m really confused reading this as to what you want. You WANT to have “Alexandra Jane” and at the same time you don’t?

        13. Lusara*

          But you aren’t clear on when you think it’s “appropriate”, so how are other people supposed to know?

        14. Good Lord Ratty*

          Your expectations are a bit unrealistic. You don’t introduce yourself by that name, so there is no reason people would call you that or think to refer to you that way in writing.

        15. ABK*

          Probably need to add the Jane to the first name box on registration forms and such. Then when name tags are printed, the whole name will appear. First Name: Alexandra Jane Last Name: Smith

          I like to include my middle name on written stuff too, so I put it in as a second last name (no hyphen) and then it shows up on mailings, name tags, signatures, my email/teams profiles and such.

        16. Label Maker*

          It’s pretty standard to leave middle name fields off of merges for letters and badges. If you really want it used you should include it in the first or last name field when you’re filling out forms anyway. Of course then be prepared for people to call you Alexandra Jane or for your badge to read
          Alexandra
          Jane Smith

        17. hohumdrum*

          My mom is very dogmatic about using her middle initial in all things, and honestly that’s the trick: just be insistent but not heated. I have never been anywhere with my mom where names are needed where she didn’t verify/insist on including the middle initial. My mom freaking asks *me* if I wrote it down on forms & such. It’s a quirk for sure, but hey, she gets her name the way she needs it to be.

        18. Corrvin (they/them)*

          LW3, is your last name super common, like Smith? It makes PERFECT sense to me to say “I like to be called Firstname, but please list me on my badge as Firstname Middlename Smith because there are 10 other people with my exact same first and last name who are members of my professional organization, and I want people to be able to find me in the directory!”

          (I am a Smith and the above scenario describes me.)

    4. Ariaflame*

      For many things I have dealt with there’s often a ‘preferred name’ thing for badges etc. where you could make sure this is clear.

      1. The Prettiest C.urse*

        Yes, this is a good solution and is the best practice for badges.

        With name badges, it’s usually a lot of information to cram into a really small space. As an event coordinator, I will do my very best to get your badge to appear the way that you want it to appear (and I have a longish name myself). However, if you have a long name plus either a lot of credentials that you want to list after your name or a really long organisation name (or all 3), then it gets complicated. So maybe the font gets smaller or things are split onto multiple lines. I’m not doing that because I want to offend people, but because there are inherent limitations to the name badge format.

        If I do have to abbreviate anything, though, it will always be the organisation name because people generally care less about that than their actual name.

      2. KateM*

        What would it be for OP, though? “Preferred name when only first name is used” and “preferred name when surname is used as well”? I’m not even sure I got this right…

        1. The Prettiest C.urse*

          “Please enter your name as you would like it to appear on your name badge” is a bit wordy, but generally works well.

          1. Coverage Associate*

            The last professional reception I registered for had something like “first name for name badge” to specify that name badges would have that name prominently, rather than full names. If it had just been “preferred name for name badge,” I would have assumed it meant first name, but apparently the issue is name badges with first and last names (or first middle and last), which are less common in my industry.

    5. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Right.

      And unlike the Bobby Sue or Mary Jane constructions, Alexandra is already 4 syllables, so you’re asking a lot of people to do the full thing. I’m honestly surprised that you aren’t just being addressed as “Alex”.

      1. metadata minion*

        It’s ok for people to have long names, and to want to be addressed by them. The LW has a preference for name display that’s not typical, and it’s reasonable to expect people to be confused by it, but it’s also reasonable to expect people to address you the way you ask them to, once you’ve gone to the effort to do so.

        1. LW3*

          Thank you for recognising this. I’m totally OK with people being confused. I’ve realised one of the reasons I’m so attached to it is I am genuinely the only person with my name – there’s only about 30 with my first name in Scotland (not Alexandra, though it’s a pretty name!) and even internationally, you search on Google for my full name, you get me and only me.

          2. Lusara*

            The problem is you want it used some times but not others, and it’s unreasonable to expect other people to figure out when you want it used and when you don’t.

        2. AlexandraNotAlex*

          Thank you for saying this. The commentariat here is usually so quick to pick up micro and macroaggressions that I’m surprised nobody has noticed how absurdly rude it is to say, ‘you’re lucky no one has shortened your name for their own convenience.’ Reframe Alton Brown’s Evil Twin’s comment about a Black, Indian, Indigenous or Asian person’s name, (which is a daily reality), and it would become so very clear.

          Sometimes it’s hard to learn people’s names but that doesn’t mean we get to change them to make our own lives easier.

      2. hohumdrum*

        I dunno, as someone with a long hyphenated name I will say the “your name is too hard! let it go!” stuff annoys me quite a bit. Sorry my name is “too much” but it is my name, and you’re going to have to figure it out, because just cutting off parts of my name is not an acceptable answer.

      3. AlexandraNotAlex*

        Four syllables are not too much to expect in a world that comfortably says ‘Kardashian’ a thousand times a day.

        Signed,

        A fellow Alexandra-not-Alex

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      I feel like the distinction here is “Alexandra” when spoken to but “Alexandra Jane” in writing, and that just is not a fine nuance anyone else is actually paying attention to.

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Honestly, I had to read this whole thread to figure out what the issue is and I don’t even think it’s “Alexandra Jane” in writing, i.e. if you wrote an email to her, you’d still be fine saying “Hi Alexandra, can you send me the TPS reprots?” It’s that the second her last name is included, she wants the full thing. So her email signature, staff badge, listing in industry publications, etc. to say Alexandra Jane Smith but other than that you’re fine to call her Alexandra.

        While I appreciate that we all have preferences around our names, this one is so niche and there is no way for anyone to infer it from how LW introduces herself that I don’t know that this is a problem she’ll ever solve.

        1. sure thing*

          I’m with you here. I’m so baffled by what the OP even wrote in for, what she even wants. What exactly is the problem and her preferred solution? Nothing she’s written or replied makes any sense, and none of the discussion sheds any light. She’s mad people don’t include her middle name [but only sometimes], except she doesn’t want them to use her middle name [verbally i guess, according to her comment above] and doesn’t introduce herself with her middle name [apparently ever], but is still mad they don’t use it? ummmm, what?

          1. Lenora Rose*

            It makes perfect sense to me, because it’s what I do.

            When to use Lenora:
            – Spoken aloud
            – casual greeting at top of email from a colleague
            – text, on rare occasion a name needs to be used, like group texts.

            When to use Lenora Rose:
            – Name tag
            – Formal address
            – Initial contact email or more strictly professional document

            When to use Lenora Rose [lastname]
            – Signature
            – Official paperwork
            – Certificates (eg, my first aid course)

            When I stop caring as long as my first and last name are right:
            – one time invoices
            – very large cheques

            1. biobotb*

              So what do you consider a “formal address” nowadays, and how do you get people to use Leonora Rose in some written communication but not in others? How is someone who is contacting you for the first time supposed to know your preference?

            2. Bleu*

              I don’t think there’s any well-known convention for dividing it that way, though. Unless you only ever go by Lenora Rose as a double barreled first name, including spoken aloud casually, no one’s going to use it in your initial contact email or “formal” address because that’s not A Thing. Adding the middle name (when it’s not an inherently linked double name like Mary-Sue) is usually considered scolding, like a parent. It’s not a normal way to be “more formal”.

            3. Good Lord Ratty*

              These are perfectly reasonable desires, but they are not reasonable to expect people to intuit (or respect, unfortunately). They aren’t really norms that are universally applied, so most people are simply not going to think of doing what you want them to do. You could give people this list, and ask that they adhere to your preferences for how to address you and under what circumstances, though. And then I suppose you’d have to hope for the best.

              (I have a similar preference, made yet more complex for others by the fact that my name isn’t in English. But I’ve never expected others to get it right. Because they simply will not.)

        2. Ali + Nino*

          Caramel & Chedder and sure thing, your responses are the only ones that make sense to me. If OP wants “Jane” included whenever her last name is included, perhaps she can add “Jane” to the last name entry?

          Similarly, as mentioned above, you can prefer to be called whatever you like, but I agree with Alison that OP will likely feel more at peace if she accepts that most people are just doing their best to accommodate an unusual and, for many, somewhat confusing preference.

    7. Lenora Rose*

      I’m kind of like Alexandra Jane. I make sure all my signatures say Lenora Rose [lastname], when given the chance to ask how to put my name on a tag or etc I write both out. If I drop anything down to an initial it’s more likely to be my last name, and on the rare rare occasion I’ve published fiction or sold art I do so under my first two names only. It has family history and it matters.

      In writing.

      Spoken, people just say “Lenora” and that’s normal. (My ongoing joke is “the Rose is silent”.)

      I’ve noticed that if I put both names in the “first name” section on a form and nothing in the middle name spot, people are more likely to put my whole name down on a card or tag, so this might help as a way to nudge people.

      Otherwise, though, it’s just a thing we double barrelled names have to live with, especially if there’s a discrepancy in how it’s spoken.

      1. LW3*

        Thank you! I think that’s what I’m going to start doing, and I like “the Jane is silent”! Despite how it might come across, this doesn’t make me angry or mad, just an ongoing mild frustration that might have some solutions. I’m also quite neurodivergent, so looking for ways to deal with the milder things so I have more brainpower for the important stuff…

    8. Web of Pies*

      Yeah, I think LW3 would benefit from learning to just roll with the shortened names at work; and advocate for full name in places that matter more, like with friends and family. The ONLY exception for me would be if she’s getting an award that has her name printed on it, I think she could specifically request then.

      I have a name people unconsciously mash into a portmanteau, think “Jim Berry” becoming “Jerry”. I use it as a point of connection when people realize they’ve erred, like “isn’t it funny how our brains do that? I get it all the time,” and we have a laugh and the meeting moves on. People get names wrong, just be gracious in a work setting, and gentle in corrections/reminders.

      1. Not really Betty-Lou*

        I sympathize to an extent. I have a hyphenated first name (think like Betty-Lou) but I hate being called Betty-Lou lol. So I intro myself as Betty and tell people that’s my preference. However, it’s only my preference when you’re calling me by my first name only. Whether verbally or in writing, if you’re using my first and last name together (I’m not fussed about the middle) I really dislike hearing or seeing Betty [Last Name] instead of Betty-Lou [Last Name]. I have no idea why it annoys me the way it does but it does. That being said, I vent in my own head and move on because honestly, I realise it’s not that rational and people just won’t remember. I think it will make LW3 a lot happier if she takes that approach. Where you need it on official docs, be explicit and specify how you want it to appear. With close friends and family, explain the preference. With everyone else, you can make a one time effort but it’s out of sync with most name writing/using norms that I think you’ll be a lot happier (and come across to people much better, whether or not that’s unfair) if you learn to mentally vent but externally let it go.

      2. hohumdrum*

        Not to assume gender here, but if you are a man (going off the “Jim Berry”) you might be getting a more gracious response to your corrections. When I do the “Oh, it’s actually *Long Name*!” I have not infrequently gotten immediate pushback of, “Oh that’s too hard, let’s just do *Name*” which required me to get pushy back at them.

        Or, my absolute favorite, telling me my hyphenated last name is bad because it was wrong of my mom to give me her last name, and to insist on shortening it to my dad’s name only. I wish I was exaggerating about that, it has happened to me twice.

    9. Aggretsuko*

      Thought the same thing. You have to point out, “I want my full name, Alexandra Jane, every time, on every thing, every time you want to talk to me.” I’m not sure if adding a hyphen would improve that or not, but you could try it.

    10. Momma Bear*

      I agree. I help with badges at my office and I specifically have people write down how they want their name displayed. My name has a common nickname I do not use. Some people have long legal names and go by something shorter. Etc. If LW isn’t being specific, then they’re not going to get what they want. I have no idea what any of my coworker’s middle names are. But if Mary Sue wanted to be called Mary Sue, I’d certainly adjust if I knew that preference.

  5. Daria grace*

    #1 along with insisting on neutral backgrounds for people you manage doing presentations, it might be worth having discussions about mindfulness around everything that might become visible on screen while presenting. Theres also sorts of problem stuff that can end up on screens like personal emails or teams messages with confidential content. If they’re oblivious about the background they might be about other things

    1. Artemesia*

      The screensaver probably needs to be turned off too. A friend who married a much older man had her wedding picture exiting the church pop up when the screen saver kicked in to photo show — her student blurted out ‘why is your father leaving the church with you?’ He was a grad student not some clueless 9th grader.

      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        Which is a good way to make the message neutral and not just about religious messages. No one needs to see a picture of you and your spouse smooching while they are in a training session for work.

        1. Le Sigh*

          While we’re at it, I think we can agree that the vacation pic of your wife and 16yo daughter in bikinis is probably not ideal. It wasn’t anything offensive, just, not very professional (also I imagine the daughter wouldn’t be thrilled to know she was the background on a giant tv screen during client presentations).

      2. Dust Bunny*

        We had a presenter’s screen suddenly start running her entire stash of dog pictures. It wasn’t technically work-appropriate but in this instance nobody minded.

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          Me in audience: PUPPERS!

          But yes, even cute things like doggos are going to distract from your professional purpose.

    2. AcademiaNut*

      I have a second account on my laptop that’s specifically for presentations. Between that and turning off the wifi, the chances of something personal popping up are very low.

      3. Ann Onymous*

        My sister is a middle school teacher, and she has a second YouTube account with her age set to 13 to make sure she doesn’t get any inappropriate ads when she shows videos in class.

          1. goddessoftransitory*

            YouTube won’t run with an adblocker. They put all sorts of snippy messages when you try to watch stuff with one on.

      4. Beka Cooper*

        I like this idea! A family friend several years ago was giving a presentation of some kind, like a community ed class or something, and she had a reminder set up in her calendar that her period would be starting soon. It popped up in the middle of the presentation.

    3. PineRiver*

      There was a US politician a few years ago (back when we used to get scandalized by normal, understandable things) who got in hot water by sharing a screenshot of a webpage and not hiding all his p0rn tabs in the background :-/

    4. WoodswomanWrites*

      It wasn’t at work, but I once attended an online workshop I’d paid for to learn a hobby skill. The presenter wore a proselytizing tee shirt with the text in huge letters. For me, it interfered with the class and I imagine for some others. I mentioned it in the evaluation survey afterward and in subsequent workshops with this teacher, it hasn’t happened again. I’m glad he made the adjustment.

    5. Nice cup of tea*

      Absolutely.

      I would provide a specific plain background for all presentations to use and then there is no drama.

      1. Somewhat crazy*

        Actually, yeah that’s a better idea than mine. Then you can make a background with the company name and logo. Then it becomes less “it’s the religion thing” and more “brand consistency”.

        1. Momma Bear*

          It’s also commonplace and generically more professional. We have a standard logo/background/header format we use so we’re consistent across all departments.

    6. ferrina*

      One thing I keep seeing is people screen-sharing their calendars. I don’t know if they think that it’s more efficient in finding a meeting time or what, but it’s weird to see “Mary’s dentist appointment” or “Check in with [Other Client Name]”

    7. Jeanine*

      Uggghhh this is a tough one. I am all for personalizing computer wallpaper and I HATE neutral microsoft backgrounds with a passion. And if it was on a laptop that only that person sees and is not presented to anyone else I could probably let it go. But this? Nah it’s a passive aggressive way of pushing religion onto people and is NOT acceptable at all.

      I would feel the same if it was presented on Teams too, if it’s someone doing a regular presentation or training virtually then keep that stuff OFF. But if it is something that just pops up on meetings here and there, meh whatever.

      1. Learn ALL the things*

        My office allows you to have any background you want when it’s just you, but we have a set of company backgrounds that were made in-house that were required to use if we’re sharing our screens with other people.

      2. Good Lord Ratty*

        I mean, I have a personalized desktop wallpaper on my work computer. But it’s not a personal photo, let alone something with religious messaging. It’s a photo of the landscape in a particular country, a place that’s personally meaningful to me, but it would probably appear anodyne to anyone else.

        I think imagery of more or less anything religious – whether that’s Jesus on the cross, the Kaba in Mecca, the Kotel in Jerusalem, or anything else similar – is probably best NOT included when it’s going to be seen by clients. There’s a wide range between imagery like that, and the default Microsoft green fields.

      3. AmeriCorps Alum*

        If only religious views are disallowed, but sports and hobbies and other personal interests (like the cannabis leaves she mentioned in her answer) are allowed, that seems like it could be interpreted as religious discrimination. I’m mainly familiar with how things work in the U.S. public sector so it could be different elsewhere. There are a lot of interesting solutions here in the comments!

    8. Learn ALL the things*

      In a past job, our convention for sending a certain kind of message was to do a print screen and send it to the printer in the department that needed the message. Once when it was my shift to listen for the printer and collect any messages that came through, I got several from the same person that clearly showed she had been shopping for shoes on her work computer and hadn’t even bothered to minimize the window before printing her screen. I definitely had Thoughts about that person’s professionalism.

    9. WillowSunstar*

      Yeah. Something like a dove, which is widely recognized as both a symbol of peace and a religious symbol, may have been fine if it looked like just a nature photo. But authoritarian-type quotes are definitely not great in a professional setting. I know they would have been at least moderately triggering for me.

        2. AmeriCorps Alum*

          In context, the quote “the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus,” builds on the Christian teaching that everyone has fallen short and needs God’s forgiveness and restoration. It emphasizes the generosity of God, who offers eternal life to everyone through Christ.

          Something else to consider is that many Christians sit respectfully through secular presenters with un-Christian messages sprinkled in their presentations. In a pluralistic society, we will not always share views with presenters.

          1. Florence Reece*

            Yeah, that context still says “if you don’t accept Christ, you are a sinner who is permanently unworthy of [my concept of love and happiness].” Coupled with the number of Christians who believe certain sexualities, gender expressions, or values make you *incapable* of ‘accepting’ Christ — because you’re an aberration to their interpretation of Christianity until you stop the ‘sin’ of your personhood– that can come across very hostile towards specific groups. Certainly not all Christians interpret that quote that way! But the ones who are currently, loudly, and publicly advocating for stripping basic rights for others based on their religious beliefs do interpret it that way. For many queer folks’ experiences, the Venn diagram of Christians who use threats of damnation and Christians who are violently homophobic and transphobic is pretty close to a circle.

            Something else for you to consider: there is an enormous difference between “un-Christian” messages and “anti-Christian” messages. You’re drawing a parallel in severity between that quote and “un-Christian” messages, but the quote is not un-[non-Christian] — it’s anti-[non-Christian]. It’s an explicit damning of everyone who doesn’t accept Christ. You CAN find un-[non-Christian] messages woven into our society: government officials offering thoughts and prayers; the Pledge of Allegiance to a nation “under God”; the “bless your hearts”, the federal recognition of primarily Christian holidays, the Christian foundation that forms the very basis of much of our language and culture, all of which center Christianity as the default and remind non-Christians that they are not the in-group. But those are generally acceptable and it’s polite to nod along because they’re (mostly) focused on affirming the beliefs of the people who express them, not rejecting the beliefs of those who don’t. Just like acknowledging the beliefs (or non-beliefs) of others, even when it’s “un-Christian.”

            So while I’ve definitely seen parallel *anti*-Christian messaging from some groups like edgy atheists online, I have not seen that kind of language tolerated in professional environments or presentations in the Western world. I’d be curious to hear if there are examples of *anti*-Christian messaging you and others have encountered that condemn Christians to something like eternal hellfire for their Christian beliefs. I’m struggling to even think of a faith-flipped quote, because again, that would not just be expressing non-Christian beliefs or choosing non-Christian language. It would be explicitly rejecting them. It’s not “happy holidays” instead of “merry Christmas” — it’s “you are not a human being to me if you say merry Christmas” and, within our political context, a hint of “and I will work as hard as I can to make sure the law recognizes you as non-human for it too.”

            Also, if you are regularly receiving messages that invalidate your experience as a person in this world, you SHOULD speak up. It’s not “polite” to tolerate that, and it’s not “impolite” to call it out when you see it.

            1. Shaun Hunter*

              “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” ~ John 3 v 16-18

              These are the words of Jesus himself. Whoever does not believe on him will be condemned.

    10. Sara without an H*

      What Daria grace said. Anybody doing public presentations should have a neutral background and suppress any intrusive notifications. You want your audience concentrating on your message, not on your religious, political, or sports opinions. Or your cats, for that matter.

      And to cement my status as a kill-joy, I’m also a big fan of standardized signature blocks for email.

      1. Bitte Meddler*

        Gah, yes, standardize signature blocks, please!

        In my last job, I got an email from someone in one of our subsidiary’s AR department. The signature block contained three bible quotes and a little picture of a very bloody Jesus on the cross.

        She was sending this to our *customers* when emailing them invoices and collections notices.

        I forwarded it to HR and suggested that we have a standardized signature, and HR was like, “Nope, this is fine.”

        My new company has a standardized signature block. It has changed twice since I’ve been here, for branding purposes, and you’ll get called out if you haven’t updated your signature to the new format. I love it.

        1. Sara without an H*

          Gulp. Now, I’m Catholic and a Crucifix doesn’t phase me. But including one in a collections notice could come across as, I don’t know…threatening?

          Glad to hear you’re now working for a company with a more professional approach to communications.

      2. Good Lord Ratty*

        We have standardized signature blocks, but not everyone uses them. Happily, though, no one has gotten weirder than “please think of the environment before printing this email!” or making their name rainbow-coloured.

      3. allathian*

        I’m a fan of standardized signature blocks, too, but only if they’re limited to no more than 7 lines of text, and don’t contain any graphics. A small company logo is OK but it has to be small, no larger than 100×300 pixels, and the smaller the better. And ABSOLUTELY NO animations or personal quotes.

        Even better is having separate signatures for internal and external use. Internal contacts don’t need to see the company slogan every time they open a new message from you.

        1. Decagon*

          Please don’t correct one person’s bad judgment by adding a rule controlling everybody’s work. This isn’t the most egregious example, but it’s still important to notice when you’re doing it and question the impulse.

    11. Gudrid the Well Traveled*

      This is where a branded background template is helpful. You can require that everyone use that or a solid color for presentations or just require the default background for all work devices. It can also be used for attending remote meetings, presentation slides, etc.

  6. Heidi*

    Is this a fancy prep school thing, giving the parents the test scores without showing the kids? When I was in elementary school, students had graded tests and report cards handed to them in class. If my parents knew and wouldn’t tell me my score, I’d probably think I did way worse than I actually did. I’m also pretty sure I’d find out my score one way or another.

    1. Nodramalama*

      Maybe its a new thing. Coz I went to private school (which I think is the same thing as a Chiltony prep school) and I always got my results

    2. Rara Avis*

      Standardized test results go to parents, not students, in my experience. I never showed them to my child. What possible use would it be for the kid to know that they’re ** percentile by national norms in reading comprehension?

      1. LJ*

        But that doesn’t mean the kid shouldn’t have a right to know their own scores. Maybe it’s a cultural thing… recalling a movie from a couple of years back, the analogy I can think of (and I realize it’s not a perfect comparison) is hiding medical diagnosis from the elderly to avoid hurting their mental state.

        1. Despachito*

          OT but this is what I am thinking too – that to hide the scores from the person who reached them sounds quite overprotective.

          Barring some exceptional situations (as e.g. in a bout of depression), the son has the right to know. If he is a perfectionist, it would be more helpful for him to learn that it is not the end of the world if you don’t perform to 110% all the time than have these things hidden from him, thus suggesting it is a bigger deal than it really is.

          Of course OP knows her son the best and decides what is best in every moment but I think this point would deserve reconsidering. At the end of the day, the boy did learn about his results in a way that was probably a lot more hurtful than if he knew them from the beginning (this is by no means to excuse Milo’s , or potentially his father’s, behavior).

          1. Sar*

            10 year olds have very limited rights, generally. “The right to know one’s standardized test scores” doesn’t really move me, either as a civil libertarian or as a parent.

        2. Zelda*

          It’s a very imperfect comparison. A medical diagnosis is a fact, and test scores are… a lot squishier than that. Kids don’t have the context to interpret them with nuance, and many have absorbed the idea that standardized testing will tell whether they are “smart” or “stupid.” (Gah. As an educator I feel like I need a shower after just typing that.) Different kids, even kids with the same score, will need different presentations to understand what the score means, and more importantly doesn’t mean. So I don’t know about a “right” to see the scores, especially for the elementary school set.

          1. MK*

            Ok, but if they are tested and the parents won’t tell the scores, the child will assume they did badly and ate “stupid” anyway.

              1. KateM*

                Yes, but that’s only if the scores are actually presented to the child. If the scores are kept from child, I don’t see what kind of presentation would make child not feel stupid.

                1. KateM*

                  And I mean of course, in the case when parents normally would share the scores but only in this case conceal them. I can’t see how could you convince me (if I was the child) how could it be anything but “really, REALLY bad”.

                2. Zelda*

                  It’s going to depend on a million specifics about the kid, the test, what else is going on in the kid’s life at the time, etc., etc. Start by not mentioning the darn thing, and if the kid doesn’t ask, then good, he’s not too fixated on the score. If other kids are talking about it to the point where he does ask, then “you’re fine,” “I don’t remember the details, but you’re fine,” “It wasn’t your best day because you were sick, but I know you better than the test does,” or some other thing, delivered in a breezy ‘oh that boring old thing? who cares’ tone. Or some other explanation that this test score does not represent a useful assessment of his personhood.

                  And it will be possible to pick a million holes in those, because I’m coming up with something off the cuff, and there are of course going to be some children for whom those would not work. But a parent doesn’t have to find an explanation that would satisfy every hypothetical child on the whole internet, only one that satisfies the one particular child in front of them. The key is parents setting the tone and making it clear that the problem is with the test, not the child, and the child will have other days to shine.

          2. mlem*

            It’s the kid’s score. Make sure to help the kid interpret the score, fine, but hiding it because “you know better” or you just don’t want to do the work is infantilizing. The kid’s never *going* to learn how to interpret scores if they’re kept secret!

        3. overcomposer*

          As a counterpoint, I didn’t tell my second-grader her recent standardized test scores and she scored very well! I wouldn’t have told her either way but i was glad in this case, she’s still learning the nuances of not bragging and saying things like “I’m super smart” and how that might make other people feel.

          I think she’s oblivious to the fact that parents even get these scores. If she were older and asking it for it, I would respond differently.

          1. Sar*

            Yup! My 10 yo has wanted to see her report cards since she could read and every year we tell her she’s doing great and the report cards are for us, not her (which is true). She sees her regular assignment grades and test grades in the natural order of things. We’ve also said she can start seeing her report cards/standardized test scores etc. in 8th grade—so she has a year of taking them in before they start to count for college. Feels like a fair compromise.

            1. Parakeet*

              I guess I don’t understand why they aren’t for her? She’s the one who has to do the work to achieve them – it’s not like a parent can do the homework, and may not have the academic skills themselves to give the kid extra help if the kid is struggling. Should she not have the feedback that’s available?

              I’m glad that it doesn’t sound like you get angry or overtly frustrated with her for grades that aren’t what they “should” be. Big kudos to you for that.

      2. Emmy Noether*

        I know this is a highly contentious topic in the US, and most of your educators hate those standard tests anyway;
        the fact that students have to take tests that often where the scores are of no use to them REALLY highlights how messed up that system is.

        1. WillowSunstar*

          After your first couple of jobs, very few employers ask about transcripts, especially if you’ve been in the same company for several years or more.

      3. Emmy Noether*

        That said, for the few standardized tests I have done in my life, I was always *very* interested in my percentile. I voluntarily sat the SATs when I lived in the US as a young teen and I spent a lot of time analyzing my results. I’m a weirdo.

        1. ferrina*

          You and me both! I loved the standardized tests and seeing where my percentile was. That said, my percentile was always high (I think my lowest was 85, but I was usually in the 90s). And I was well-aware that all this meant was that I scored high on tests- my actual grads were mediocre.

          Of course, as an adult I realized that I had ADHD with a high IQ, which is why I could perform well on tests then forget to turn in my completed homework for 2 weeks straight (I still have no idea how every adult in my life missed the symptoms).

          1. Elle*

            Same here- high test scores, ADHD. I think a lot of educators in my youth saw me, saw the exact same set of circumstances that would have gotten a child assigned male at birth some ADHD testing, and were like “oh she’s just bright but doesn’t apply herself. Girls can’t have ADHD.” It seems this is common.

            1. ferrina*

              Yes! When I was growing up, ADHD was for boys with bad grades who didn’t sit still. As a girl who had mostly Bs (but aced every test by leaps and bounds) and who was known as a voracious reader, I didn’t fit the stereotype.

              Though later my mom claimed she knew I had ADHD, she just didn’t bother to get me tested or say anything because “you could focus when you wanted to” (i.e., when hyperfocus kicked in). That stung.

          2. perspex*

            This is me exactly. I don’t put a lot of store by standardized test scores—or school achievement in general—because I know from my own experience that taking tests (and school in general) is a knack. I loved taking tests, and I could often perform well on a test even if I didn’t completely understand the material. (Although my occasional missed homework wasn’t from forgetting to turn in the completed assignments but from just about every other ADHD symptom—from time blindness to not caring enough to make myself do it.)

      4. DifferentProcess*

        I always got these scores and they were discussed/compared ad nauseum by the “smart” kids with a lot of bragging/ragging. The only thing we weren’t shown were the results of the mini IQ tests that are tacked on to many of the standardized tests (in fact, in many cases the students aren’t even told there’s an IQ test component). My parents, both teachers, definitely felt this was normal and I’ve discussed standardized testing with folks a fair bit as an adult with teacher friends and they definitely worked at schools that gave students their results.

      5. Cat Tree*

        Yeah, my parents never showed me mine (in the 90’s – not a new thing) because it had no effect on my grades or performance at school. It really is intended to grade the school, not the student. As a teenager I found a stack of old documents that included the scores. I always scored above the 90th percentile in every category, with plenty in the 99th percentile. I asked my parents about it and they explained that it just wasn’t a big deal. I was doing well in school and I knew it, so there wasn’t a point in showing this and adding pressure. It wasn’t a secret, just not worth bringing up.

      6. Broadway Duchess*

        This may be regionally-dependant. I got mine handed to me to give to my parents (except something that came during summer break). My son’s came by email to me and we discussed them together.

        1. Clisby*

          That’s how it was done when my kids (now 28 and 22) were in school – grades were sent home to the parents. I read them and then handed them on to the kids, but it’s perfectly possible they had already seen them.

      7. Pretty as a Princess*

        Ours show up in the “grades” section of our school portal that the kids have access to. Yes, even in elementary they have access to the info on the portal that shows when assignments are turned in and shows test scores.

        1. allathian*

          Yup, my son had access from 4th grade onwards.

          But we don’t do standardized tests here, except PISA and that’s not every year and not all schools do it, so most students never take it.

      8. Parakeet*

        It’s been a while since I was a kid, but my scores went to me and NOT my parents. It was up to kids to show their scores, on anything, to their parents. It was my numbers, so why shouldn’t I have been the one getting the info? I was interested and also I wanted to know beforehand if I was going to be having a hard conversation with my mom in the near future. Not have her spring it on me. If I didn’t know my scores I’d have been worried about the unknown.

        Honestly I feel sorry for today’s kids that their parents are directly given all their grades on everything. I know why it is dine that way, now that it’s easy to do. But it makes me literally shudder to imagine having no opportunity to keep even some random homework that I screwed up on to myself. The stress of that sounds awful.

    3. Spencer Hastings*

      Since it’s a standardized test, as opposed to regular in-class tests, that makes sense. We had that when I was a kid — I seem to remember that the reports were mailed to us at home (with info on percentiles/whether we were eligible to apply for a gifted and talented program, that kind of thing).

    4. Potato Potato*

      I wish my high school had mailed the scores for the PSATs. Instead, they gathered us all into the auditorium with stadium seating and handed us the scores. People in the back row could see everything

    5. jinni*

      Yes. At least in my kid’s two private schools in LA. It comes in an elaborate email. I’ve never shared them, and the schools here have a culture of not talking about it. However when I was a kid a billion years ago in NYC private schools, I knew them. But they came home with me in an envelope and my mother was very much into achievement. Either way I’ve never heard of standardized scores being discussed among students!

      1. Heidi*

        Interesting. I can only recall one state standardized test in elementary school, and I remember the teacher calling us to her desk one by one while everyone else was doing individual work, showing us our report, pointing out where our individual scores were, and putting it in an envelope to take home. We did not discuss amongst ourselves. Hopefully I didn’t imagine that.

    6. Zelda*

      Ours were always mailed. I think the main reason for that is to make sure parents actually see them; there’s always a certain percentage of kids who just wouldn’t deliver them.

      1. KateM*

        Yeah, but when you want to make sure that *parents* know the grade, then surely the kid should definitely know it?

        1. C*

          I’m not sure it benefits the parents to know the exact score, why would it benefit the kid? Just tell the parents if they need to come in for a conference or not, if not, the scores are fine.

          1. KateM*

            My point is, when you have already decided that the parents benefit of knowing it, then surely it should go without saying that the actual test-taker should know them as well?

            1. Zelda*

              Parents do not, as such, benefit from knowing that their kid is at 95th percentile rather than 96th. Giving that kind of information is more about the transparency of the test– if parents see more details, they’re more likely to trust the results. That’s not necessarily accurate, [insert here all the criticisms of standardized testing]. Especially in elementary school, there’s probably something to be said for just reporting what quintile a kid falls into rather than what percentile. If parents didn’t get any results at all, there would be riots.

              The kid should know what the educational plan is– we’re going to be giving you some extra practice on reading, or, honey, are you bored because everything is too easy? Let’s fix that! But a lot of standardized testing in grade schools is properly viewed as an assessment of the *teacher*, not the student. The misuse of these tests to put kids in “tracks” or otherwise let them feel like the tests evaluate their personhood is galling to me. With high schoolers, they have enough academic experience with tests that they get to review afterwards and learn from that they already know a good deal about their own strengths and weaknesses, and they have some perspective that this was just one of many tests, some of which are higher levels of BS than others. For little kids, the standardized tests are allowed to loom way too large. I’m not saying the scores should always be kept from the kids, but saying they have a “right” to know when they don’t really understand what the scores mean *and don’t mean*, and have likely absorbed some harmful myths, is too far in the other direction. Parents should be allowed to gloss over the scores if it’s better for their particular child.

    7. PineRiver*

      There have been studies showing how if you split kids into two completely random groups but call one the advanced readers and the other the remedial group, kids in the fake “remedial” group actually do worse – and the effect persists for years. Many schools, my kids’ included, are obligated to do standardized testing but are moving away from giving the kids a single number like “you’re smarter than X% of your peers!”

    8. Cat Tree*

      Think of it this way: the standardized tests are intended more to grade the school (in aggregate) than to grade the student. Grades for regular classroom work would of course be shared with the student.

      1. ferrina*

        It can also be used to identify students that need additional academic support. That’s how my kids’ schools use the results- partially as a benchmark for the teacher/school performance, and partially as one of the ways they determine who needs additional support (they use several methods, this is just one).
        They also use certain tests are also used to help determine advanced academic placement. This isn’t the only metric they use- there are several metrics that measure different learning styles. I love this because kids that do really well in regular work but get test anxiety get identified for the advanced classes through their day-to-day work, and kids that get bored with regular work but have the capabilities to do better get identified thought testing. Both me and my oldest kid are the latter- if we’re asked to do rote stuff, we’ll skate by, but if we are given a challenge, we excel. And we are both quick at learning things, so standard based curriculum can be boring for us (there might be an ADHD element in there- I’m ADHD, but not sure about my kid).

    9. Hyaline*

      It’s also because most of the distribution is electronic now. I get notifications of grades and scores posted in an online portal. Nothing paper comes home anymore. Come to think of it, I rarely show my kids because none of us care about the stupid standardized tests.

    10. Nightengale*

      Ours were always handed to us in an envelope. Most of my classmates looked in theirs but I always brought mine home unopened to my parents (and then we looked at it together.)

      Standardized test scores were mailed home except for the one test we had taken at school. The teacher who did college counseling came into class to hand those out and had us write down the percentile we thought we had gotten. Not the score, for which i could have made an educated guess based on practice tests, the percentile. I refused. She refused to give me the scores back. Not wanting my mother to have to field yet another call from her, I wrote 0%.

      (Another call because there had been many, starting with my first week of school when she asked why my mother couldn’t “get me to dress more like the other girls.” Ah growing up unrecognized neurodivergent/disabled in the late 80s and early 80s.) Later she told me – knowing I was completely uncoordinated – that the best “in” for college was sports.
      I said maybe this was the year they were looking for a really good lighting designer.
      Eventually we had her removed completely from my college application process for fear she would sabotage it, and I got into a school generally considered excellent where the student culture was to not discuss grades amongst ourselves out of respect for how that might make others feel.

    11. Nonprofit writer*

      My kids are in public school, so I can’t speak to your question about private schools, but for the standardized state tests in elementary school, the scores go to the parents. We generally did not share these with the kids. We don’t have a ton of respect for these tests (both of us have retired teacher moms who are not fans of them) & are aware they are mainly for measuring the teachers’ performance. Also, our kids are perfectionists like the LW’s (and no, we don’t pressure them, it’s just how they were made, and we try hard to counteract it).

      We did have a moment of debate when our younger son got a perfect math score a couple years ago. Despite our concerns he might brag about it to peers, we did end up telling him, because it seemed like something he’d be happy to know.

      Honestly for us, the state scores come months after the test, so the kids forget about them.

      And now that they are in middle/high school, they definitely see all their test scores. And of course regular tests given by the teachers they have always gotten their scores on directly.

      I agree with the advice to talk to the son first, then the school.

    12. Falling Diphthong*

      State test scores usually go to the parents. And carry a different weight than spelling tests. (I recall perfectionist oldest and her friends getting spun up about state test scores in 3rd grade, which were not going to have the life or death effect on their college chances that they imagined.)

      I believe I showed my kids their scores, but their scores were very high. We had some conversations about how if you’re in the 99th percentile you can’t actually show improvement year to year, and so the implied failure to show improvement noted on this year’s score wasn’t actually a reasonable metric.

      In high school I would default to sharing. In elementary and middle school I can totally see not telling my oldest because of the perfectionist tendencies, and my youngest because of not caring.

    13. fhqwhgads*

      Regular tests get handed back to the kid with a grade. Standardized test results get mailed home, probably addressed to the kid not the parent, but it’d still be conspicuous what it was.

    14. TriRN*

      Not telling an adult about a medical diagnosis is far distant from not telling a child about a standardized test score. The adult presumably has the emotional capacity to understand the context & consequences of the diagnosis

      In many cases, kids don’t have that skill, especially kids that tend towards perfectionism. A single standardized test becomes a referendum on their self-worth.

      The solution, of course, isn’t to his this information forever, but choosing not to tell a 10-year-old, while also working on the skills to overcome perfectionism, can absolutely be the right choice.

      Signed,
      Former perfectionist who DID tie my self-worth to test scores for far too long.

  7. K*

    #1 “No personal messages on screens” rule – does it mean no personal messages whatsoever? I have Ukrainian flag and coat of arms as a screensaver on work computer, is it inappropriate? Will a rainbow flag also be inappropriate?

    1. Free Meerkats*

      For your normal day to day work, I don’t see either of those as a problem. If you are presenting, representing your employer, see my comment below.

      1. K*

        I do not do trainings and outside of the the company, but I sometimes train and onboard new hires, or meet the vendor representatives to negotiate purchasing equipment or services.

        1. Allonge*

          I would stick to standard company / Windows / nature backgrounds for these (or pay a lot of attention to not sharing the backgound).

          It’s a distraction from the onboarding or meeting and I would find it so even when I agree with the politics it represents. I don’t particularly want to see people’s family photos when they are presenting for work either.

          1. KateM*

            Hm, so the workaround for K is what I have actually seen on presenters – a nice nature background more or less equally divided in halves of cloudless sky over a sunflower field.

            1. Allonge*

              Could be, or a rainbow in nature.

              I will not over-analyse what I see and I think most people will not, but obvious political / religious etc messages are obvious and I would avoid using them when presenting.

        2. Sammi*

          If those people are seeing your screensaver then yes, it would be inappropriate. My company controls the desktop background and screensaver of all our computers/laptops etc for this reason. We all get the same boring corporate designs but it prevents inappropriate choices and creates consistency.

          You could always have a separate profile with a boring generic background/screensaver to use for such situations. BBC

        3. ferrina*

          It depends on the culture and values of your company. The culture at my company is very supportive of LGBTQ+, but we stay way out of international politics (some of our clients are political, so as a company we need to stay neutral).
          So the rainbow pride would be just fine, but the Ukranian coat of arms might not be.

          1. Shaun Hunter*

            What if some of your clients, and/or employees are religious and don’t want that pushed in their faces? Either allow political/religious messaging or don’t.

    2. Roeslein*

      Agree, I have never heard of parents being able to withhold results from *the person who sat the exam*. It’s good for them, especially if they are a perfectionist, to learn how to cope and move on from this kind of situation in a relatively low-stakes (it sounds like) setting and their parents can support them in that. I certainly which I’d learnt this at a younger age! Keeping the results a secret makes it seem like underperforming while sick is somehow shameful which it’s not.

    3. I know I had a username*

      Yes – to my mind no personal messages whatsoever means zero messages. Otherwise it gets distracting.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        There is no such thing as pro-LGBT propaganda. Acknowledging that people exist is not propaganda. I mean, I guess something like “everybody should date the same sex. Opposite sex couples are morally wrong” would be pro-LGBT propaganda, but a rainbow flag is not that.

        It’s not about whether one agrees with something or not. It’s about whether it is pushing an agenda. “Gay people exist” is not an agenda. It’s a simple statement of fact.

        To think about whether something like that is propaganda, change it to straight people. Would an acknowledgement of straight relationships be considered propaganda? Nope. Then an acknowledgement of same-sex ones is not.

        The opposite of a rainbow flag isn’t hate speech against gay people. The opposite of a rainbow flag is something like a picture of a “traditional” family. The opposite of anti-LGBT propaganda is anti-straight people propaganda which…isn’t a thing.

        This whole “both sides” can be problematic. Being unbiased shouldn’t mean “if you can’t tell offensive lies about people, then you shouldn’t be allowed to tell positive truths about them either; otherwise it’s bias.” Being unbiased means that anything that is wrong to say about straight relationships is equally wrong to say about gay relationships and anything that is fine to show about straight relationships is equally fine to say about gay relationships.

        2. Ashley*

          I completely agree, however there are companies and industries where your message will not be heard the same way if you do have the flag on your background unfortunately. Depending on your company / role it doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t keep it, but in an overly politicized society it can unfortunately detract from your message landing.

          1. Great Frogs of Literature*

            This is true. But I think it’s also worth noting that there are plenty of queer people who would feel a lot more comfortable (and probably learn better) with an obvious signal that their trainer wouldn’t judge them if they let slip that they’re queer.

          2. Elle*

            That’s a sign that those industries and workplaces are hostile to queer people, not that you’ve made a mistake by displaying propaganda.

          3. a trans person*

            I guarantee you that queer people do not need this to be explained and it is quite insulting that you chose to do so here.

        1. I should really pick a name*

          Instead of asking why something hasn’t been flagged, the recommended approach is to flag it yourself.

          Reply to a post with a link, and your comment will go into moderation which will allow the offending post to be reviewed.

    5. Green great dragon*

      I’d say a Ukrainian flag is inappropriate to put in front of people you don’t know in a work situation. I agree with your position, but if I’m at work I don’t want to be reminded of a horrible situation affecting people I know. And there’s plenty of Russians who oppose the war who don’t want to be wondering what you’re going to be assuming about them.

      Rainbow flag seems less contentious to me.

      1. Green great dragon*

        In fact, there are also Russians in and outside Russia who have bought into the propaganda that’s been thrust at them but are not terrible people, and don’t need to see that in their onboarding meeting.

      2. HannahS*

        Yeah, that’s where I fall. National flag of a place in conflict is dicey. One person’s solidarity message is a someone else’s reminder of war and all its attendant traumas.

    6. Melissa*

      It never occurred to me that I could consider changing the wallpaper or screen saver on my work computer. Ours default to the corporate logo, and it would be very out of step to go in and change that.

    7. Falling Diphthong*

      On visiting oldest at college I observed that the food was pretty good, and she agreed that it was on first exposure, but it got same-y and boring pretty quickly. And further observed that the food needed to be bland in order to be acceptable to a wide demographic.

      I’ve thought about that last line a lot here when, for example, we discuss how scary the office Hallowe’en party can be, or whether Sausage Party or Book of Mormon are appropriate for an office team building. The broader the audience, the more bland you should go. Then the people who really like sex farces, or body horror, or Victorian literature, can split off to do their own thing in smaller subgroups.

  8. Tracy*

    I think you should tell kid their scores. That said, ask your kid about the score. You really don’t know at this point how he found out. I wouldn’t possibly blow up someone’s job over this.

    1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      I think they have a better understanding of the full picture of how to parent their child than we do

  9. Roeslein*

    OP #3, I have a hyphenated first name, say Rose-Mary, but only use the second half, Mary at work (although I do use my full first name on official documents). I always sign my emails and introduce myself as Mary,but I don’t mind if people use Rose-Mary. What annoys me is when despite all of this people just randomly decide to call me Rose. It’s not my name! Usually I don’t even realise they mean me. It happens surpringly often, especially with vendors and certain geographies. How hard can it be to check how someone signs off their emails / introduces themselves / asks to be addressed and go from there?

    1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      It shouldn’t be at all hard!

      But in Alexandra Jane’s case, they’d have been introduced to her as Alexandra, she’s happy for them to address her as Alexandra, and they’d see her sign emails as Alexandra.

      1. Hello*

        Yeah I’m not understanding how she even expects people to know her middle name is Jane, if they’ve barely heard / seen her use it (apart from possibly in full email signature?). Generally people are not thinking about others to such an extent that they think “I know she likes to be called Alexandra, but what would she REALLY like on her name badge?” because 99.9% of the time the answer is “the name they like to be called”

        1. Bleu*

          Yeah it just seems like her preference isn’t aligned with any standard way we divide when to include middle names in things, so it’s not really going to be explainable to people.

    2. LW3 "Alexandra (Jane) Smith"*

      You’d be surprised how often I get this as well, getting emails to “Alexandrina” or “Alecsandra” (it makes more sense e with my real name…)

    3. Green great dragon*

      Yes. Though yesterday I addressed an email to someone, say Clarese, and checked it letter by letter, and somehow between me doing that and it hitting my sent mail it had been “corrected” to Claire.

    4. jasmine*

      Yeah I don’t get how #3 is different than people getting your name wrong in other situations. Like if you introduce yourself as Alexandra and people start calling you Alex.

      We as a society should really start taking our cues from how people introduce themselves (or at ask before switching to shortened/lengthened versions). I understand that many folks aren’t mindful of this, and that’s… well, not fine, but an innocent mistake.

      But to continue after being corrected (“I prefer Alexandra” “I prefer my full name on badges! Alexandra Jane Smith”), at that point it’s truly on them and it’s not okay.

      1. I should really pick a name*

        LW#3 is basically asking why the standard is FirstName LastName instead of FirstName MiddleName LastName.

        Most of the situations described in the letter are ones where people are not typically consulted on their preferences. In many cases, addresses are generated automatically.
        For example, conferences with hundreds of attendees are not going to check personal preference for badge names. They probably don’t even have a field to enter a middle name.

        If they feel this strongly about it, they need to proactively make their preference known, and even then, it may not be something that can be changed.

  10. But Of Course*

    For letter 2: assuming your school received federal funding, FERPA makes HIPAA look like a fun walk in the park. Please follow Alison’s advice and report it. Whoever is violating FERPA needs to stop before the consequences are even more serious.

    1. Nodramalama*

      It’s also possible nobody violated anything and Jack found out his results, or the kids intuited his scores were lower.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Sure, that’s possible. But if that’s not what happened the school needs to know. The advice isn’t “point the finger at Milo’s dad” but rather “Let the school know someone leaked confidential information.”

    2. Hyaline*

      It’s 100% possible that FERPA is not violated here. In fact, FERPA makes it clear that student records ultimately belong to the student. That means that Jack could have accessed his records without his parents knowledge. He could’ve asked his teacher for his scores and that would have been completely covered by FERPA. the parents should absolutely not report mere suspicions to the school. They can raise the fact that there is bullying happening and they’re not sure how their son found his scores, but they should not accuse Milo’s dad without any actual evidence.

      1. Blue*

        Thanks for this comment. I can think of several more likely ways for Jack to have learned his scores than Milo’s dad telling Milo. The leap to accusation feels like it’s skipping a few important steps, with potentially really serious consequences.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          Hell, even if Jack found out from Milo, doesn’t necessarily mean Milo’s dad told him. My knee-jerk reaction was “Milo’s dad probably has a not-so-secure password and Milo logged in as him and checked for himself” – which yes, would still point to “dude, you’re in IT, your kid shouldn’t be able to guess your pw”, but it’s also very different from intentionally looking up some other kid and telling your kid. I do realize there isn’t anything in the letter suggesting Milo did that, but as an IT person who has had the role of supporting other IT people in the past, since the letter says Milo knew Jack’s exact results and doesn’t say Jack was unsurprised – my brain went straight to Milo acted alone, not Milo’s dad did the digging.

  11. Reindeer Hut Hostess*

    Alexandra Jane is a beautiful name, but you are indeed fighting an uphill battle in a world where the tendency is to shorten names in a more informal way.

    I would guess that the majority of Western women’s names are 1-2 syllables (Ava, Kristen, Angie, Michelle, Taylor, etc.) or perhaps 3 syllables (Jennifer, Stephanie, Addison, Evelyn, Emily, etc.). You’re asking people to work extra hard (I know…in an easy kind of way, but still extra) to say a lovely but formal, two-part, five-syllable name, and one that is so easily and typically shortened in an obvious way to Alex. Or in your case, even something like AJ would be easy. Saying your full, preferred name is almost counter-intuitive to what we’re used to doing, and as lovely as it sounds, it doesn’t exactly roll of the tongue in an easy way.

    Is your frustration with verbal, in-person interactions, or is it more with written materials, or both? If verbal, I wonder if you could gently but consistently remind/correct/nudge people with “It’s Alexandra Jane…nice to meet you as well…”

    If I’m getting to know you and you remind me a few times, I’ll eventually pick up what you’re putting down and FINALLY come around. But it could take a few tries.

    1. LW3 "Alexandra (Jane) Smith"*

      Sadly my real first name and surname would have outed me (when you Google it, I am the *only* results), so it’s anonymised, but I appreciate the compliment!
      I’m perfectly happy going by “Alexandra” verbally or in emails, it’s for anything where the default is “Alexandra Smith” that I’d really like “Jane” to be included.
      I think I’ve realised I just need to be okay without my first name unless it’s really important like a diploma/certificate, and in those cases just checking in advance what will be printed…

      1. Allonge*

        There is no universal solution, I am afraid.

        For things like conference badges / nameplates, you may have some success entering both Alexandra and Jane in the first name field when registering – for larger events these will be auto-printed based on the registration info.

        For ‘enter into your own office building security badge’ which is produced only once or certificates and things like that, you will need to specifically ask whoever makes them to put both names on it. It’s not a problem, but if they are used to putting first name and last name, they will need instructions.

      2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        For the specific case of badges, I think you need to decide which of two situations would bother you more:

        * Your name badge has “Alexandra Smith”, and you’re addressed as Alexandra
        * Your name badge has “Alexandra Jane Smith”, and you’re addressed as Alexandra Jane

        If you decide you prefer the second, you can always put “Alexandra Jane” in the first name field.

        1. sparkle emoji*

          Yeah I think this is the decision you need to make. If it’s important to you to be Alexandra Jane on name tags, there’s a decent chance you will be called Alexandra Jane vs Alexandra. My assumption when I see a double name on an email sig or name tag is that that’s the name that person wants to be called in all settings.

      3. toolegittoresign*

        I have a friend who has a name like Lisa Beth Connolly and her parents intended her to always be called “Lisa Beth.” She does introduce herself as such but usually goes by “LB” for short. This keeps her middle name top-of-mind and no one ever forgets to include it in name tags, emails etc. I know deciding to go by a set of initials might not be for you, but it’s the most effective way I’ve seen to make sure the middle name is always included.

    2. londonedit*

      Yeah…generally in the UK we just use people’s first names, there isn’t really a culture of people using their middle names or middle initials unless it’s for official purposes. Most of the time you don’t even know people’s middle names unless it happens to come up in conversation! I feel like it’s more usual in the US – loads of US authors seem to use a middle name or middle initial, but it’s quite rare here. So it would be unusual for someone to want to have their middle name included, and I think people would be confused if someone didn’t want to be called ‘Alexandra Jane’ as a full name (akin to something like Sarah-Jane or whatever), but then wanted their middle name included on name badges. I guess if there’s an opportunity to say ‘Could I please have my full name, Alexandra Jane Smith, on my name badge’ then do that, but otherwise I don’t think people will automatically think to include a middle name or to ask whether you want it included.

  12. Free Meerkats*

    #1 Previous Job had standardized backgrounds and slide formats for any presentation. I presented at conferences on a regular basis and all my slides and computer backgrounds were those as I was representing my employer. For the LW, if you get that job, you can implement that rule and no one will feel they are being singled out.

    1. ThatOtherClare*

      My workplace has taken it one step further and enforced standardised desktop backgrounds and screensavers. I used to find it annoying, but I got over it. I personalise my work spaces in other ways.

      It helps that they made the entertainingly odd choice of using a photograph of a Manila folder instead of paying for a stock photo, so the generic solid beige desktop image has a big crease across the top. It’s so professionally unprofessional, somehow.

      1. AlwaysAStruggle*

        Seriously? I’d have to get an ADA accommodation to use a background/screensaver that wouldn’t make me dizzy? And then have to explain I have permission (and probably why) everytime someone else sees my screen? That’s hideous.

      2. allathian*

        My employer used to be strict about backgrounds to the point that you couldn’t even change it without admin access, but they quietly removed that restriction when we started hotdesking with a clean desk requirement when we went officially hybrid when the pandemic restrictions were lifted.

        Being able to customize your desktop background becomes a big thing when you can’t have any other personal items on “your” desk. Or you can, but only if you’re willing to carry that stuff with you. There are no lockers you can leave stuff in overnight.

        I’m happy with my employer-provided background because I mostly WFH.

    2. learnedthehardway*

      Some of my clients even expect for me (an external service provider) to use their standardized background. This is making more sense to me now that I realize that some people lack all kinds of common sense about what is appropriate to display on their screens when presenting or representing their employer or clients.

  13. Jean Valjean*

    LW3, if you introduce yourself as Alexandra and everyone calls you Alexandra, no one is going to think to include your middle name on badges or documents unless the documents require your full legal name. I work in a field where it’s very common for people to include their middle initial on official name things, and it still wouldn’t be intuitive for anyone to put it on a name badge at a conference or anything like that. So I think you either need to resign yourself to correcting everyone every time they leave your middle name out and hope it sticks or you need to let it go most of the time. I say this as someone with a hyphenated last name that has confused people for decades–they use only one of the names, one or both of them is spelled wrong, I get called Mrs. Hyphenated Last Name because people make assumptions (I’m not married)–trust me, if you let it bother you every time, you’re just going to be at a low level of anger for the rest of your life.

  14. Despachito*

    LW2 – I’d have a word with Milo’s father, or possibly with Milo himself.

    You do not know for sure whether it was him who leaked the information. If it was really him, he is a half-decent person and knows Milo’s tuition is at stake there is a chance it will never happen again. If it wasn’t him you would be possibly able to figure out together what might have happened.

    I would think twice before I set in motion something that could possibly jeopardize my son’s best friend education. I don’t say I would never do it, but in this case the damage done is real (I am asking myself what kind of friend Milo is to “tease” his perfectionist friend about bad results and trying to one-up him) but not so egregious to have him potentially fired (if his father is found guilty, let go and can’t afford Milo’s tuition anymore). I think that you have enough ammunition to stop it without going to the higher-ups.

      1. Despachito*

        Definitely, and I think another issue worth addressing with him is the fact he was not told about the results. I don’t think that was right.

    2. Broadway Duchess*

      I’ll be honest: there is not a world when I’d let a parent “have a word” with my kid. If LW wants to talk to a kid, the obvious choice is to start with hers.

    3. Malarkey01*

      I agree completely with you. Ask Jack, talk to Milo’s dad, do a little research before kicking off a big investigation. This could also have repercussions for your own job and for your son with other teachers- we can argue whether that’s right but this isn’t a vacuum and when coworkers turn in other coworkers there can be backlash and when parents raise issues with teachers there can also be some consequences.

      Just to say this is a BIG decision for you on multiple fronts.

    4. TheBunny*

      This. I’d tread so carefully too.

      IMO Jack received scores he should have already been told. Risking the education of another child could have such major repercussions for that child that I’d really consider if telling on the “rule violation” was worth the cost that could be paid by a child.

      And before talking to Milo I’d involve his dad.

    5. Glazed Donut*

      Yes, this. I think there are two issues at play here: 1) Milo teased your kid about a test score and 2) Somehow your kid’s scores were shared and you aren’t sure how.

      If this were me, and especially if I worked at the school, I’d drop by the division head/assistant head’s office (ie middle school principal or AP, not the Headmaster) and make clear these are two separate concerns that are related through one anecdote.
      Perhaps Milo has been teasing other kids about scores, or there’s a small riff between the two boys and this was brought up in another context (maybe Jack started it with a spelling test score, and Milo escalated it using this standardized test score). You just don’t know, and most 5th graders are at the age where they have learned to tell their parents stories in the light that makes them look the best. I’d start with school mid-level admin and see where that takes you in your information/context-gathering.

    6. dontbeadork*

      *(I am asking myself what kind of friend Milo is to “tease” his perfectionist friend about bad results and trying to one-up him)*

      I’d say a pretty typical fifth-grader. They’re still learning to navigate social situations and to think about others’ feelings. Who’s to say that Jack doesn’t do the same thing to Milo when Jack scores higher? This may be the way these boys relate to each other.

      Other than that, OP needs to start by talking to Jack about how he found out his scores. It could be something perfectly innocent and absolutely not worth jeopardizing someone’s livelihood over, like he asked the administrator in charge of testing or his own teacher.

      1. Not your typical admin*

        As a mom of a 5th grader – this is so true. Most kids that age still have trouble distinguishing between playful, fun teasing and hurtful teasing.

        1. allathian*

          True, and the only definition that matters is the victim’s. If the teased kid’s feelings are hurt, the “playful” teaser’s intentions are completely irrelevant.

          Kids that age are still learning thst you can hurt people without intendentti to.

    7. New Jack Karyn*

      What good will this conversation do? Milo’s dad either denies it or confesses. If he denies it, you don’t know if he’s lying. If he confesses, now what do you do?

      This is a data breach. Confidential information got to a person who had no right to it. If it wasn’t egregious, then Milo’s dad will just get a warning and not fired. If the school administration sees it as a serious matter, then he might get fired.

      I don’t know how people don’t see this. It’s a case of “Their actions got them fired, not the fact that someone told the bosses about their actions.”

      2. Despachito*

        The point is not to have Milo’s dad confess.

        The point is that IF he really did leak some information and is a half-decent person aware of the risks that this would represent for him and for Milo, he would be extra careful to never do it again.

        Think about yourself doing a stupid mistake that may cost you your livelihood and potentially the future of your kid. It would be completely your fault and you could be rightfully fired for it. Would you prefer it being oficially investigated or your coworker giving you heads-up? I assume a person who is not a seasoned criminal would be mortified and double check that this never happens again.

        “If it wasn’t egregious, then Milo’s dad will just get a warning and not fired.” In an ideal world, yes. And possibly OP’s school is ideal in this sense and nothing would happen. Or they can respond by firing him just because there is a suspicion. This is what we don’t know but OP probably does.

        I would weigh all this in OP’s situation:

        – how egregious was the transgression? If it was really bad such as bullying or molesting, I would not care about anything else, report it and require for it to be solved. If it was something less awful, I would consider
        – what do I know about the system of investigating things at that school?? If I know it is fair and I can rely on it, I would report even minor things. If I know it can be unjust (ie there was a leak of information, we are not sure how that happened, but we will fire the IT person because the paying parents would want to see some result and he may have done it ), I’d think twice before reporting something.

        And we must still bear in mind that we don’t know for sure that it was Milo’s dad, and if OP decides to report it they should report just the fact and not that they think it was him.

  15. talos*

    LW3, I can’t consistently get people to spell my name right, they insist on using extremely rare, non-phonetic wrong spellings instead of the common, phonetic spelling I actually use.

    Which is to say – good luck. You need it.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      People are so weird about names. My husband has a very standard last name (think Baker) and people still do things like pronounce it “Ba-keer.”

    2. It's a grand old name*

      People will misspell any name — and it’s generally because they saw it another way before. Teach autocorrect a new version of a name, and it seems to prefill that by default.

      Mary seems easy, but I have gotten Mari, Marie, Mairi, even once a Maura.

      I usually point out my spelling as “just plain old Mary.”

      Oh and even more fun? My own Outlook is trying to sign myself Marty now, after I taught it someone else’s name.

  16. Glen*

    I would think such an overtly religious background is unacceptable in the workplace even if it doesn’t accidentally get projected in a training session!

    1. Tinkerbell*

      Unfortunately, this can be a cultural thing – here in Alabama, people will often look at you like you have two heads if you ask them to consider that some people around them might not be Christian. Authority figures may brush off your complaints because OBVIOUSLY evangelizing at work is okay, and if they do tell your coworker to knock it off, you may find yourself in a very chilly office :-/

      1. Paint N Drip*

        It’s so interesting what is ‘default’ to each of us that we don’t even consider that others might react to. I live in a purple state that’s pretty diverse, and I was flabbergasted when I started working in a conservative industry where we don’t acknowledge that anyone has any life or personality outside of work I guess? unless that life/personality is max-level traditional buttoned-up dork (straight and married, kids, suits, golf, Kiplinger letter, etc.)
        No hate to the dorks mentioned (a good suit does serve, admittedly) but as a queer neurodivergent person I am SO uncomfy aha

      2. Bitte Meddler*

        I used to sell ERP software to manufacturers and Alabama was part of my territory. I scheduled a plant walk-through with one customer on a Wednesday. It’s an all-day thing and we (my software engineer and I) would normally take the Controller and some other management folks to lunch.

        Except… when 11:30 rolled around, the Controller told us there was a Pizza Hut down the street OR we could join them for Wednesday prayers and bible study. The *entire* company was expected to join the boss-led bible study.

        I was utterly gobsmacked and had trouble even forming a coherent sentence after that.

        My S.E. and I grabbed a pizza and decided over lunch that we didn’t want to go forward with that prospect. We had an awkward 15 minute conversation with the Controller at 12:30 and then got the heck out of there.

    2. Allonge*

      Eh, look, if someone wants to see this every day and it’s not in a public place or where lots of people would be looking at it (so the job does not include much of ‘come over, take a look at my screen’) , I don’t care that much.

      For me, the desktop background is actually a good place to put these if you absolutely have to have them. As a default, we should not be looking over people’s shoulders to read what is on their screen. Plus, the desktop is also unlikely to be visible a lot, with actual software open, unlike e.g. a picture on someone’s desk.

    3. Hyaline*

      If it’s in your personal space and not positioned so others have to see, to each his own IMO. Screen backgrounds are better than wall posters in that regard.

    4. Dust Bunny*

      I am a dyed-in-the-wool atheist but I wouldn’t care if your background on your own computer that really only you use is religious. As long as it doesn’t somehow impact my work or our ability to work together, I don’t care.

      1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        It’s when that background is prominently visible during a screenshare – in particular a *training* situation – that it becomes a problem.

  17. Chocolate Teapot*

    3 For some odd reason, when I started my new job, the IT department decided that my email address would use my full name, except that my second name has never appeared in email addresses before. Not to mention I had to correct people who called me by my second name!

    1. amoeba*

      My boyfriend used to have his full legal name as his work e-mail when he was an intern. He has two middle names, one of them an old family tradition, named after his grandfather. It is… not a name anybody would ever use outside of legal documents! Imagine something like “christopher-john-archibald-smith (at) workplace . com”.

      He asked to have it changed when he came back for a full-time position!

  18. Zelda*

    #4, I have done this, but with the specific field rather than the actual word “relevant.” As in, “teaching experience” and “other experience,” or “laboratory experience” and “other experience,” according to which sort of job I was applying for.

    2. LizB*

      This! I’ve also used “highlighted experience” for the relevant stuff, and “additional experience” for non-relevant stuff

  19. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #1 Obnoxious trainer. That would seriously irritate and distract me.
    Personally I would have said something when the first quote appeared:

    “Excuse me but you’ve forgotten personal stuff in your background. It’s distracting so can you remove it please”

    If there were too many senior people, clients etc present, then I would have collared him the first break and been blunter:
    “Please remove the religious quotes from your background. They are unprofessional and distracting”

    1. amoeba*

      As an alternative to speaking up in a large crowd (might be hard to even get a word in, depending on the set-up, and/or maybe you don’t feel comfortable doing it) or waiting until the break, I’d just send them a private message to the trainer…

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Now I’m imagining the IM previews popping up even while presenting.

        (My company’s MSTeams finally changed its default to hiding message preview during presentations this year. More than a few clearly private messages displayed during meetings before that got addressed–and I suspect it was only done because a new executive came in from another company.)

  20. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #3 I had the opposite problem at FinalJob, which was in Germany, where hyphened forenames are common:

    I have the middle name (not) Shahira, so for 30 years my name in EM, payroll etc was Vulcan-Shahira Khalil. Colleagues soon learned to call me just Vulcan, because taking the first part of a forename is common for convenience. However, in all formal records and communications the hyphen could not be removed. 30 years *sigh.

    tldr: it is very difficult to go against customary naming conventions, but particularly so when the custom is to go shorter.

    1. Emmy Noether*

      Huh, must be regional, because I’m German, and among the people I know, hyphenated first names are very rare.

      There is, however, a whole administrative THING where there’s a difference between hyphenated names (count as one name, as if the hyphen was just another letter) and two first names separated by a space (count as two names).
      If there IS a hyphen, people are going to be extremely resistant to shortening it in anything official-ish. If that hyphen snuck in there by mistake… name mistakes are somehow absurdly hard to get rid of once they take hold.

      1. Myrin*

        Yeah, I don’t encounter hyphenated names much, although my sister actually has one. I wouldn’t call it “rare” (and definitely not “very rare” but yeah, that’s probably regional) but it’s not “common”, either.

        But yeah, the difference there is that the hyphen makes it into one name, legally speaking.

    2. r..*

      Germany (and Switzerland and Austria) have some very odd special laws around hyphenation between names:

      If your name is Vulcan Shahira Khalil you have two first names; Vulcan Shahira Kahil, Vulcan Kahil or Shahira Kahil are all legal names of you.

      If your name is Vulcan-Shahira Khalil then legally, you have a single legal name, Vulcan-Shahira Kahil, because the meaning of the hyphenation in Germany naming law is that it combines two names into a single one, instead of having two first names.

      Hence all the formal documents had to have Vulcan-Shahira Kahil on it.

      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        Funnily enough, all official correspondence from govt, public bodies, utilities etc took my name as I wrote it, i.e. separate vorname “Vulcan” and middle name “Shahira”
        It was only FinalJob who put in the hyphen when I started – and then kept it for 30 years :)
        (Otherwise, they were vey responsive to employee wishes. Maybe it was just too much to change everywhere, once the hyphen was in the system)

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      When first married I used my middle name because it was my maiden name and I sometimes still slipped.

      IT hyphenated me at my new job, and I ended up in the company directory in the wrong half of the alphabet. My boss made them correct the display name but there was no way to change the email until we got bought out and moved into a not-antique employee database.

      And our domain name was long too!

      1. I don't work in this van*

        I had something similar where my government-issued email address had to be the name that was background checked (my legal, married name), even though I’ve always worked under my maiden name (and, in fact, most people call me “Maiden Name” not “First Name” in conversation). They were unable to change it, so no one could ever figure out how to email that work address. Luckily, I was a contractor and so had a more intuitive email through my agency, but it went to a completely different computer.

  21. Brain the Brian*

    LW3, note that there are software packages that limit the number of characters that can be entered for a name and / or leave out middle names for things like badges, certain expense and payroll reports, etc. (I had several teachers whose last names were truncated on my class schedules in high schools because of such limitations, for example.) You may be able to get “Jane” included in verbal communications and in some written places, but I doubt you’ll get it everywhere in writing. Good luck!

    1. LW3 "Alexandra (Jane) Smith"*

      That’s a valid point! I’ll try and just blame technology going forward…. even if not accurate, it’ll help with the frustration!

  22. r..*

    LW3,

    this is one of the things where there’s an implicit social tradeoff:

    You get to have an expectation that you get to decide how others should call you.
    Others get to have an expectation that you’ll also think about how your choice works out, with that expectation being higher in the workplace than in other contexts.

    Realistically speaking, you will interact with many people who’ve never met you before, who will not be aware of this. I agree that picking either Alexandra or Jane and making peace with that some/many/most people will call you by that name might make you happier in the long term.

    1. LW3 "Alexandra (Jane) Smith"*

      I do go by my first name, and am happy with that except when my full name is used, as that’s when they miss out Jane.
      However, you’re right in principle and I already face the struggle with “Alexandra” (not my real name) – people mispronounce it, get it completely wrong.

      1. Bleu*

        Yes but it’s not the convention to include middle name when your full name is written out in the workplace, only on like legal documents (driver’s license, etc). The difference is, they’re not missing it out because it’s standard for it not to be there. Your preference is totally fine, but it’s very bespoke and not something anyone could reasonably anticipate.

        If you lean more into Alexandra Jane becoming your full first name, always said together, that may give you what you prefer in writing. But otherwise, this isn’t analogous to someone shortening Elizabeth to Betty without your approval, it’s really a “that’s not a thing and people aren’t mind readers” thing.

        1. Spencer Hastings*

          Right, this would be like if every news article about Taylor Swift referred to her as “Taylor Alison Swift”. It’s just not the convention.

          In college, the “From” field of our emails included our middle names by default. Some people edited their setting so that it would just show First Last, but I never bothered. I like my middle name well enough. But it didn’t mean I wanted to be referred to as First Middle Last in situations where First Last was the norm.

  23. Jamaica Joe*

    Isn’t the most obvious explanation that Jack asked Milo to find out his grades because you’re concealing them from him? Before jeapordizing someone’s job (and his son’s education), simply ask your son, “How does Milo know your grades?” The possibility that he hasn’t even wondered how his friend came to know his grades when is precisely zero.

    2. Audrey Puffins*

      It still doesn’t change the issue that someone gave Jack’s grades to Milo when there’s no reason for Milo to have them. This would only change the story if the answer is “Milo is an elite hacker who broke into the school’s IT system”, and that doesn’t change the advice for LW to address it with the school and ask them to look into it. It just changes the outcome, which is that the IT systems will need to be tightened up rather than Milo’s father being told to not share confidential info

      1. Jamaica Joe*

        Not necessarily. I think that one perfectly plausible scenario is that Jack, wanting to know his grades and knowing that Milo’s father would be able to access them, went with Milo and asked Milo’s father directly; they’re Jack’s grades, so Milo’s father would have had no reason to refuse such a request and would not be guilty of violating anyone’s privacy by doing so.

        Again, I don’t see any scenario in which the situation could be made _worse_ by OP simply asking his son, “How does Milo know your grades?” Perhaps there was a grossly inappropriate violation of privacy somewhere along the line, but there may be—and probably is—a far more innocent explanation.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          At least for HIPAA, it is actually a violation for me to use my hospital employee access to access my friend’s medical records to get them test results even if they ask me to. I am only permitted to use my work access for stuff that comes across my desk in a work situation. If a patient needs info they have to go through the patient portal.

          I am not familiar with FERPA to know whether it works the same way, but if so, then no, the student can’t just go to the IT guy and ask him for the records and the IT guy doing so would absolutely be a violation.

          1. Hyaline*

            This would probably vary by school policy regarding looping parents in on minors’ info, but I was freely able to share any student information with that student when I worked in college admin. I could use my access to look up their schedule, personal info, academic progress, grades, bursar….in order to share it with them. (Fundamentally, per FERPA, educational info belongs to the student.)

            1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

              Part of the purpose of HIPAA is that the health info belongs to the patient — but the restriction is on ME, that I can’t access patient info for anything that isn’t specifically related to my work. So if for the purposes of my work, I don’t need to know when the patient’s next appointment is, I am not allowed to look at the patient’s appointment schedule, even if the patient is asking me to. I have to redirect the patient to the appropriate process to get them that information. I would think that the IT guy is not expected to be accessing student test results as part of his regular work.

              1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

                (To clarify – I work in management and have full access to our medical records, the onus is on me to only get into portions of the record that I actually need for work purposes, and if the audit tracker in our medical record system sees me going into other sections of the medical record it will probably flag for a review by our HIPAA auditors.)

        2. Hyaline*

          It might not even take elite hacking. My kids’ scores are all in a main parent portal that doesn’t even log out consistently. Jack could have, potentially , looked up his own score or even found it accidentally easily!

      2. Retiring Academic*

        Don’t rule out Milo being an elite hacker! My godson’s schoolfriend (a computer whiz) was expelled for hacking into the school’s IT system – I think he changed some grades or something. They let him take the important final (national) exams under the school’s auspices, though. Whether he hacked into those results, history does not relate!

      3. Seashell*

        I think Milo’s dad leaving his laptop open while leaving the room for a few minutes is more plausible than the 10 year old elite hacker scenario.

    3. bamcheeks*

      I think all of these possible explanations are a reason to let someone at school know. Whatever the route is, if kids are being mean to each other about test scores, that’s also saying something about the culture of the school that they should be trying to address.

      2. Abigail*

        This is an elite academy. Of course there is competition about test scores. If people didn’t think they were important they would not be there.

        You can have anything you want but not everything you want. If you value school culture based on things other than performance that is fine but you would be better off at a different school.

    4. JustKnope*

      That’s a possibility, sure, but absolutely not the “mos obvious” explanation. You’re making things up here.

    6. Dahlia*

      Milo should not have access to that information!

      And they aren’t GRADES. It’s a standardized test score, which is very much not a grade.

  24. bamcheeks*

    LW3, I’m not totally clear on whether your question is “is there a way to address this so I never have to correct people?” or “how do I make corrections?” I don’t think there is a way of dealing your name so everyone gets it immediately, but I also don’t think you should be shy about saying, “Oh I’m so sorry, this needs correcting, it’s Alexandra Jane Smith not Alexandra Smith. Can you change it?” Or for anything where re-printing is going to be a faff to take time, “Hi, who do I need to speak to to make sure this gets printed as Alexandra Jane Smith? I get Alex Smith a lot, so I just want to make sure it’s right and doesn’t need to be re-done!”

    Be polite and friendly in these interactions and don’t let your frustration show or make it seem like they’re at fault for not knowing already. But I don’t think you have to accept a life of being Alexandra Smith if you’re not!

    1. LW3 "Alexandra (Jane) Smith"*

      My comment below was a reply to you – thank you!! You get my problem and have a good solution!

    2. Sarah Beth not Sarah*

      As a “Sarah Beth” not “Sarah” (not my real name) this is good advice. It’s incredibly frustrating to have my first name printed/spelled/called incorrectly. I’m not Sarah, I’m not Sarahbeth. I’m Sarah Beth. I also think as a society we need to get better at understanding that not all cultures have the “typical” American naming conventions of First Middle Last name.

      Some things I have done:
      Bolded Sarah Beth in my email signature so it’s clear that my first name is two words.
      Correct people when they misname me.
      Changed my legal first name to Sarah Beth instead of having Beth as my middle name (my mom didn’t love this one but she’s the one who made my name confusing and doesn’t have to deal with it!).
      Had my office request a correction with a government agency for leaving “Beth” off of my name for a system we use at work.
      Find creative ways to explain my name- I work with people from all around the world and find myself explaining that I have two first names if they call me only Sarah. This is a great convo to have when I’m making sure I’m pronouncing their name correctly too.

      I think it’s a bit different since Jane *is* your middle name and you go by Alexandra. BUT I *also* think it’s reasonable that we call people what they want to be called, whether it’s names, pronouns, etc., just like we would learn to pronounce someone’s name that’s not in a language we speak.

      Just because someone’s name doesn’t fit the “typical” naming conventions of majority American culture doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the respect to go by the name they want to be called.

      1. LW3*

        Just wanted to say thank you – a lot of comments are basically telling me to put up with it, but why should I have to?! I’m going to be more (politely) forceful about correcting pronunciation going forward as it’s clearly important to me!

        1. Ali + Nino*

          I think your experience is a bit different – Sara Beth is talking about being called the wrong name (she goes by Sara Beth all the time, verbally and “in print”). You have different preferences for what you are called verbally and how your name is written on certain documentation. I think the pronunciation of your first name is a separate issue – one that I agree you have every right to correct in the moment. Go for it!

          1. Sarah Beth not Sarah*

            Hi Ali + Nino- the irony of you saying “Sara Beth” when my (fake) name is Sarah Beth is *chefs kiss* for this conversation. Truly no shade- just points to the reason that it’s easy to get frustrated when names are misspelled or mis-spoken!

            1. Ali + Nino*

              100%! my apologies! I have a name that people like to randomly add letters to the end of, I have no idea why – is it autocorrect? if it is, it’s not changing my name to something I’ve ever heard of in any language I speak! I just chuckle and move on – it’s not a big deal.

        2. Statler von Waldorf*

          I suspect that the reason people are suggesting you put up with it is because there is a real social cost in having the most memorable thing about you involving weirdness about your name, especially in a professional context. Normally I would let this lie, but you have stated publicly in this comment section that you are neurodivergent, so this might be something you want to consider.

          When you go to a conference or any other networking event, there is real social value in representing yourself as a professional. When people talk about you (and they will) if all they remember about you is that you are extremely particular about your name, that’s not a great professional image to be presenting. You can be the best llama groomer in the world, but if no one knows about that because all that anyone knows about you is your name, it’s counter productive to your professional growth and future networking opportunities.

          All that said, you are still entitled to feel strongly about your name and how people address you. I’d just ask yourself if it’s really a hill worth dying on in a professional environment.

        3. sparkle emoji*

          I think the comments are telling you that your wishes– to be double barreled in writing but not in speaking– are going to be very hard to achieve. You may be able to get Alexandra Jane in writing on documents that ask you to input your name, but that may result in being Alexandra Jane verbally as well. You say in these comments and the letter that you like being Alexandra verbally. People expect that the way you ask them to address you will be consistent going between speaking and writing. You want something that’s not in line with that expectation. That’s fine to want, but it’s going to be much harder to make that happen than if you wanted to be double barreled all the time.

  25. LW3 "Alexandra (Jane) Smith"*

    THANK YOU! This is what I was hoping for. My question was hoping for both, but realistically wanting a way to get corrections nicely. I guess I’ve always been a bit shy of asking, particularly as I often have an uphill battle to get my first name (not Alexandra, though that is a good alternative!) spelt/pronounced right anyway. I’ve just realised, that very battle is possibly my route in – “while we’re discussing my name, could you check it’ll be printed as Alexandra Jane Smith?”

    1. Green great dragon*

      That’s a really good idea. I’m a McName, and the c should be raised, but I’ve given up on it 99% of the time (like here, I don’t think superscript is supported), but for nameplates and nametapes I’d like it right please. Maybe getting it in up front is the way to go.

      1. bamcheeks*

        Ha, I’m the opposite — I’m Macname and usually get McName or MacName. I had an absolutely ridiculous go-round THREE TIMES at university where the system kept defaulting my name to MacName, and every time I went to correct it they asked to see ID for confirmation. But every piece of formal ID I have says MACNAME, so zero use for confirming capitalisation!

        1. metadata minion*

          “But every piece of formal ID I have says MACNAME, so zero use for confirming capitalisation!”

          Hah, yes, as a librarian I am begging publishers to not write the authors’ of articles in in all-caps in the table of contents. I then have to go to the full text to see how to actually spell Macn(N)ames and v/Van Names for the catalog record.

  26. JSPA*

    LW#1, this part of your letter is overly broad (unless it’s in reference to a state law):

    “I know general expression of one’s religion in the workplace is protected…”

    It’s illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion (or lack thereof). It’s illegal to forbid people to have a symbol or evidence of their religion on their person or their desk, but this isn’t absolute:

    It can’t interfere with doing their job (whether that’s jewelery in a clean room or having a company-approved neutral background during presentations). Nor can it be something commonly understood as hate speech or a threat (this comes up with bent-arm crosses / hindu swastika). And it very much doesn’t extend to messaging to others– Proselytizing is not protected, whether in speech or writing (or projected on a screen) and quickly falls under the category of harassment (even if it’s not individualized by the harasser buttonholing coworkers individually to tell them what their relationship with [deity] could or should be).

    So long as your coworker has the screen saver for their own sake, such that glimpses by others are incidental, at a distance, and in passing (and so long as your workplace doesn’t have some requirement that everybody use the same screensaver while at work), that’s protected, as is their right to identify themselves as belonging to any particular sect of any religion.

    But outside of personal space, including when the laptop is not functioning as quasi private space, but as a shared space? Then requiring something more neutral, more on-brand, blander, more professional (etc) is fine.

  27. Bob*

    A handy tip for anyone being bothered by Christians at work: Mathew 10:14

    “Don’t preach in public, do it at home or you are a hypocrite” (paraphrased, but it’s funny seeing them try to justify disobeying jesus)

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Getting in a scripture battle is not going to further the goal of “let’s keep religion out of the workplace.”

      1. Antilles*

        This absolutely feels like one of those “One Weird Tricks”. The theory makes sense, you confront them with the quote and they just immediately recognize their mistake and that’s that, end of story.
        In reality, what actually happens is that your poor paraphrasing and taken-out-of-context Bible quote makes it into an even bigger back-and-forth, with a good chance that they interpret your quoting the Bible as an interest in having the discussion if they could only correct some of your misperceptions.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Exactly :P And if that’s all you got, then you look like the jerk who specifically went out of their way to half-ass memorize one specific bible verse to harass innocent Christians.

        2. foofoo*

          That’s exactly what happens. My partner knows this particular quote and yells it at the jerks proselytizing on street corners and they just get into yelling matches back and forth, he gets riled up, I get frustrated, and proselytizing jerk keeps spouting his hell and damnation.

    2. Hyaline*

      Poor paraphrasing—a better summary is “don’t preach where you are not welcome” and that actually fits the situation better, as it’s pretty much never welcome at work.

        1. Silver Robin*

          ding ding ding! sometimes comes with a variation on “are you saying Christianity/Christians are unwelcome here?! discrimination! my rights!”

    3. a trans person*

      I am not and have never been Christian. But if I try to quote *my* scripture (“Take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where, and with whom ye will, but always unto the Goddess”) nobody would take it seriously. This is just more Christian supremicism.

  28. Roland*

    Divulging student information, especially grades, is a major data breach. The school will investigate. Like Alison said, OP should only report the facts as OP knows them, no speculation.

  29. ChronologicalIsSafer*

    OP4, I’ve talked to a lot of different hiring managers at many places I’ve worked as well as during various professional meetings where the question wouldn’t be out of place, and about 50% of them would ding candidates not using a traditional entirely chronological resume. Many of them would toss out the candidant.

    I have toyed with a few different resume formats because the standard format highlights my title too much which can be a barrier to jobs that match my experience but not my titles (I often have hybrid jobs that encompass multiple areas and that snowballs – once an employer who hired you for X realizes you’re also really good at Y and Z they often incorporate Y and Z into your tasks). My best, most accurate, most comprehensive resume is a functional resume (I list my most recent employers by years at the end) but I don’t use it as a resume, per se. If there’s a recruiter in the mix I’ll send it along with a traditional resume “to help the recruiter better understand my skill set” but otherwise I deal with being screened out for being an X when applying for jobs as a Y because people don’t look beyond the job title.

    I also have a hybrid resume which is similar to what you’re suggesting and that got the worst reception when I showed all three options to a smaller audience of hiring managers. But that may have been too small a sample size to be definitive – I’ve had the “would you consider a resume that wasn’t strictly in chronological order” convo with a much larger group of people.

    FWIW, attitudes are changing a bit, but very slowly. Also, this may be different in your industry – I’ve worked and asked across different industries with similar results, but it’s still a subset.

    2. CareerChanger*

      I agree with this. When I’m scanning resumes, I’m trying to create a mental map of someone’s trajectory over the course of several years, and I don’t love when it’s a puzzle to have to rewrite it chronologically in the margins.

      Also, I get it, but I don’t necessarily consider 20-year-old relevant experience to be super relevant if it’s followed by such a long break. I’m weighing your recent experience more heavily.

      A great cover letter is key here–telling your story and explaining how your prior experience, both in the industry and out, set you up to be a strong candidate right now.

      1. JSPA*

        Different fields age very differently though. Twenty year old tech? Not useful unless you’re applying for upkeep of legacy systems. Health care / hands-on carer position? Relevant! Some rules and procedures have changed, but people are still people, and the “biological OS” hasn’t changed.

  30. RC*

    Longtime reader / huge fan biased by my own childhood history here, but I’d advise #2 to tread a LOT more lightly. It’s not just that OP2’s child could’ve gotten wind of or intuited the score difference another way. The fact that the friend will lose scholarship if the dad loses his job means you’re messing with a child’s future and probably future children too by stopping generational economic development. Kids who attend “Chiltons” their parents can’t afford are often scooting through a very narrow window in which they have to navigate a whole bunch of invisible social and economic obstacles while looking like they have it together and hoping nobody pulls the rug out in order to achieve a more secure life. Having a parent who behaves badly/ inappropriately enough to put it all at risk — and accidentally (or purposely) encourages the child to do so — is often part of it.

    Talk to the dad. Talk to both kids. But don’t make it A Thing where the employer is likely to shine a “guilty until proven innocent” light on the other father unless you’re positive that something so terrible is continuing to happen on the regular that it justifies impacting your son’s friend negatively for decades and beyond.

    1. Hyaline*

      I’m torn on this, because FERPA is a Thing in education and the dad should be so completely and totally aware of it that it really makes me wonder, IF he looked up and shared scores, what other egregious breaches of confidentiality he could be committing. It truly could be a situation where firing is the only ethical choice even though it sucks for Milo. But the thing is, LW jumped to conclusions that he did so. They should absolutely not be reporting what is basically a baseless accusation.

      1. TheBunny*

        There’s a big difference between “sucks” and “could have major future educational and economic impacts for someone currently a child”.

        Kids at schools like this are the kids who go to Ivy League universities. Yes there are other paths to those schools, but none that direct. Will Milo want that later as he gets older? Who knows. But it would take a LOT more than telling some test scores (if dad even did) for me to be willing to take that kind of opportunity from a child.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          If the dad did share the scores, though, he would be the one taking the opportunity away. I agree that the LW shouldn’t jump the gun, but I don’t like the idea that a (hypothetical) serious breach shouldn’t be reported because of the impact on that person’s child. What about the potential impact on other children if the father is disclosing confidential information?

        2. bamcheeks*

          “Reporting this could have a negative impact on that person’s child if they lose their job” goes for literally every time anyone with parental or caring responsibilities does something wrong at work. If you don’t trust the school has adequate processes in place to only fire someone for truly unacceptable behaviour, why would you educate your child there?

        3. Hyaline*

          OK, kids from my public high school went to Ivy Leagues, and I knew kids at fancy private schools who are struggling mightily with life, so let’s not catastrophize this into weird binaries–Milo could “succeed’ or “fail” in life through many pathways.

          The dad made these choices that have impacts on their kid. The reality is that the school likely has to comply with FERPA and Dad KNEW that (because you get trainings coming out your ears) and/or had their own information privacy policies. Either way, it’s literally his job to know and follow them. If Dad was going to get fired because he consistently failed at some other element of his job, I don’t think we’d be having this conversation, right? And we DEFINITELY wouldn’t be having it if Dad did something no one could ignore as truly egregious–harassment or assault, for example. It would be “well, it really sucks that you blew your kid’s access to a great education, but wow you sure did.”

    2. Person from the Resume*

      But the next IT employee may have a kid too. And this job might elevate that kids’ chances.

      Don’t necessarily report your guess … talk to your kid and Milo … but if ultimately an adult is revealing privileged student information to the students he should be fired.

    3. Colette*

      If the father is inappropriately accessing children’s data, he is the one putting his child’s future at risk. And if someone in IT is accessing data inappropriately, he could also be changing data inappropriately. The OP is justified in asking the school to investigate.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          That’s why Colette said “If”. No one is saying the LW should immediately accuse the father and ruin his reputation, but the LW could mention to the school that confidential information was leaked* and ask them to investigate how that happened.

          *Like others, I recommend the LW first ask their son if they know how Milo got the information.

        2. JSPA*

          If the system is bad enough that the kids or other third parties or hacking in, that’s an even bigger deal.

          It’s even possible that the kids are just making up the scores–you can’t dunk on someone without numbers, and sometimes dunking on each other is a teen bonding thing–or are extrapolating after comparing answers with someone who got a perfect score.)

    4. HonorBox*

      I think starting with the kids and dad makes sense. Not to invent hypotheticals, but hey, others suggested the kids hacked, so here goes… What if Jack really wanted to know and he asked Milo to have his dad check the scores?

      While I think parents have a right to share or not information with their children, Jack may have really wanted to know. If he asked Milo to ask his dad, then Milo’s dad did so with the student’s approval. There may be more grey area in that situation. Would it have been better to go through a teacher or administrator? Yes. But if the kid wants to know his score, I can see that he might take the path of lesser resistance.

      If you talk to dad, too, you might point out that Milo was teasing Jack about doing better. While kids will do that kind of thing, this might be a place for dad to intervene and provide some fatherly advice about that being wrong.

    5. spcepickle*

      This is the same argument used when rape happens. But they are such a good kid, why ruin their future over a little mistake. It is a terrible argument. If you do something wrong there are consequences.

      It is 100% fair for the letter writer to a) ask her kid where he heard about his score. And then b) tell the admin of the school that someone is sharing personal info. No need to start by throwing Milo’s dad under the bus as she has no proof. But if the admin finds out it was Milo’s dad and he loses his job well – don’t share personal student info is a good life lesson with a hard consequence. Many of us come out of public education to lead successful careers just fine.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Thank you. I’m side-eying all the folks who think if someone does commit a security breach they shouldn’t be fired because their child might not get to go to an Ivy League school.

      2. RC*

        No, spcepickle, you’re talking about “Person who definitely did horrible thing should be given a pass.” This is “child of person who may have done a MUCH LESS horrible thing, and maybe nothing, will be seriously impacted if an investigation is mishandled/overblown.”

        This does raise an interesting thought, though. OP2 is assuming the source of the data leak is best-friend’s-father. What if there’s even a 20% chance that investigating would prove that OP2’s own child was involved in improperly acquiring the scores and would be subject to expulsion? I wonder if in that case OP2 would take a much different approach, something more along the lines of “well, I’m not going to drag administration into this, I’m just going to let it be the minor mystery it is and go about my life.”

        There is an argument that OP2 is pretty far in the weeds here. This wasn’t rape, bullying, sexting, unwanted advances, cyberbullying, or cheating. It was more like “I tried to hide something from my kid and he found out” which is fairly common and dare I say boring. One might conclude OP2 maybe is creating drama here. Certainly anyone comparing this to rape is minimizing the more serious crime.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          Just because it’s not as horrible as rape doesn’t mean it isn’t a serious issue. It’s not a contest. The school could get in trouble if they don’t investigate. If the father shared confidential data he would be the one hurting his son, no one else.

    6. allathian*

      The dad has a history of being very competitive as regards his kid. He wasn’t fired for spying on a parent-teacher conference by looking at security footage before (the LW commented elsewhere), so it’s unlikely that he’s going to be fired without an investigation even if the LW reports that Milo knew Jack’s grade when Jack didn’t.

  31. A Book about Metals*

    Who knows how your son came to know his grades, and maybe the dad did do somethign he shouldn’t have, but do you really want to get your son’s best friend’s dad fired?

    1. Person from the Resume*

      Talk to the son. Maybe he and / or Milo hacked records or looked in the teachers desk. But if it really is Milo’s dad he should not continue to have access to student data.

    2. Jennifer Strange*

      While I agree the LW shouldn’t jump to conclusions, if the dad DID disclose the grades to his son then he would be getting himself fired.

      1. A Book about Metals*

        Don’t disagree with that. I also wonder if the kid could have just asked the school for his grades himself. I have high schoolers and maybe it’s different at younger ages or in prep schools but they have just as much access to their academic stuff as we do as parents.

  32. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #3 No, don’t report. Don’t risk disrupting a child’s education because of – maybe – their parents’ loose lips.
    imo, data confidentiality does not rise to that high level.
    Milo might even have heard from another kid, but could still get penalised for repeating it.

    If you really feel it is sooo important, then have a private word with one of the other kid’s parents to ask how Milo knew – and say that of course you won’t mention this matter to anyone else. Otherwise, you have decided it is not sufficiently important for you to be privately embarassed, but is enough to risk a child’s education – in which case, take a hard look in the mirror.

    2. bamcheeks*

      I’m kind of surprised by this take. IMO, data confidentiality of *children in school* absolutely rises to the level of something the employer should be aware of. Using your access to confidential data to give your kid information they are using to gloat to their friend raises massive questions about whether you’re competent at the job and aware of the level of responsibility you have. I do not want anyone managing my children’s data who is cavalier about data protection!

      Obviously if they are a good employer, their first step shouldn’t be to fire Milo’s dad, but to investigate and find out how Milo came to know, and if it was via his dad, then whether this is a training issue, a carelessness issue or a genuine inability to do the job. No employer should be going to firing as a first step, and that’s even more true if that’s going to disrupt a child’s education. IMO that’s a whole problem with the set-up, and if the school doesn’t have some systems in place to protect the children of employees who leave the school and consequently disincentivises staff from raising significant problems, that’s a whole other set of problems.

      But if “IT person doesn’t take confidentiality and security of children’s data seriously” isn’t a problem worth escalating, I’m not sure what is. That’s a major problem!

      1. Person from the Resume*

        Yes, major, major problem if the IT guy is sharing confidential info with his son. But a 5th grader could use their dad’s access to hack scores. Maybe Jack and Milo did it together because Jack wanted to know his score. This should be investigated as a breech of confidential data.

        But if Milo’s dad is fired, I’m sure his kid is out. That perk is a job incentive and benefit, I’m doubtful this fancy school wants poor (by comparison) son of disgraced former employee around through 12th grade. I would hope they let him finish out the year/semester, but that still might be hard.

      2. Colette*

        Agreed. And it’s important to realize that IT has access to a lot of confidential stuff, even outside of education. Misusing access is a big deal.

      3. Everything Bagel*

        Agreed! If Milo’s father is the one who gave him the info, then it’s Milo’s father’s actions that would get Milo expelled from school, not OP. Who knows what else the person who gave this data out is giving out? It’s not for OP to make the decision that nothing should be done about it.

      4. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        I would absolutely report if it was just a matter of someone losing their job or if I even suspected that Milo’s dad was an actual danger to students.
        However, I think wrecking an innocent child’s education & future is unacceptably high collateral damage to punish minor breaches of confidentiality.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          When it comes to children I don’t think there are “minor breaches” of confidentiality. Also, keep in mind the SCHOOL could get in trouble if he were doing this.

        2. bamcheeks*

          just a matter of someone losing their job

          But that could EASILY lead to a child having their education disrupted and having to change school?! So is the problem here really that you just don’t want to have to know about it?

        3. New Jack Karyn*

          A) Is it really a minor breach? Someone with no right to that information got it somehow.

          2) OP wouldn’t be the one to wreck Milo’s education and future–that would be his dad (assuming that he actually was the source of the data breach).

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I clawed my way up from a grim, poverty-blighted childhood only by climbing rungs on the education ladder, clinging on by my fingertips. If anyone had stamped on my fingers at any stage, I would have fallen and I don’t think I would have had the strength to climb up again.

      I wouldn’t have given a shite whether someone did this out of principle and didn’t deliberately harm me, or whether they considered my whole future was less important than their holy principle, acceptable colateral damage to bomb my life.
      It’s a cop out to say Milo’s dad did this to him – you are choosing to bomb Milo even though his kid is in the way.

      imo it comes from unthinking privilege for people to get on their high horse and set an abstract principle so high. I’m privileged now, but I haven’t forgotten where I came from, or how.

      1. Name_Game*

        Seeing the stringent letter of the law opinions on what are usually fairly innocuous situations on this site genuinely frightens me sometimes. Knowing so many people here would be willing to flush a kid’s future down the drain for a hypothetical situation where the father possibly broke the rules is scary.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          No one is saying the child should be punished on the off chance his father broke a rule; they are saying IF his father did disclose confidential information discovered in the course of his work (and proper investigation should be completed to determine if he did) then proper action must be taken (which MAY include termination) and that it would be his fault, not the LW’s fault, if that happened.

          What’s scary are the number of people who think a security breach (which can have ramifications for the school, by the way) should be swept under the rug because then the employee’s child might not get to go to Harvard (because we all know kids who go to public schools never succeed academically).

        2. Lexi Vipond*

          Expecting someone to go to the same schools as 99% of other people is hardly ‘flushing a kid’s future down the drain’ – if anything, restricting them to an elite institution is likely to make it *more* difficult for them to function in the ordinary world.

          Isn’t idea that it’s fine to lie if it’s in order to retain privilege (Boris Johnson, I’m looking at you) how we got into a lot of recent trouble?

        3. Saturday*

          I probably wouldn’t report without more evidence (could a teacher have left scores where they could be seen?), I don’t know.

          But this seems so extreme…”flush a kid’s future down the drain.”

          Most people don’t go to elite prep schools. I don’t think there’s a reason to assume that, if not for this elite school, Milo will be at the worst and most dangerous public school in the world. I get that changing schools is disruptive, but he would probably go to a different school, and his future would be fine.

        4. Sneaky Squirrel*

          Losing any job anywhere could seriously implicate the livelihood of the spouse and/or children in any situation. Should no one ever be reported for suspected wrong-doing at their jobs because it might have an implication on their family? That Milo may not be able to attend this elite school means that he will not have a successful future is an extreme take. There is no way that we can know if whether Milo attends this elite school will have a direct impact on his future when many people demonstrate success coming out of public schools.

          LW is a teacher at this school and has responsibility to the student body. LW needs to consider their responsibility to all the students. Jack’s confidential data might not be the only data at risk here. Milo’s dad could be sharing confidential information to Milo about all of his friends whose families could cause a bigger ruckus. LW should report the facts to the school and allow for the school to make a proper investigation.

          1. Myrin*

            Right? I feel like I’m in some sort of twilight zone reading some of these comments about Milo’s “ruined future” (which, btw, OP is clearly keeping in mind, too – she dedicates a whole paragraph to how she doesn’t take this lightly considering Milo’s family’s financial situation, and yet some people are commenting like she’s callously tee-hee-ing about this splendid opportunity to ruin this family for generations to come).
            Somehow those dramatic hypotheticals never extend to Milo’s father’s successor who will not only be excellent at her job but also be able to have her daughter attend this school who then goes on to achieve a great many things for humanity as a whole.

        5. Hyaline*

          Look, would *anyone* be arguing that the offending parent should be kept on at the school for the sake of the kid benefiting from the education if the offense was, say, SA on a student? Or making videos gleaned from secret cameras in the bathrooms? No, I doubt it. For the greater good, obviously, the parent would have to be fired. And it would suck that a side effect would be that kid losing out on their educational boost, but it would be pretty unusual for anyone to say “oh, ignore Pops the perv, for the kid’s sake.” So I can only assume that the objection is because people don’t feel that violating information privacy is just not a big deal–but to a school, it is a big deal. It’s not just overly picky letter of the law nonsense.

          I am in full favor of exploring all options and not making any accusations until you’ve got all the info–I do not think that the letter provided enough info to “prove” that but later comments suggest maybe there’s more to it–but if Milo’s dad DID look up protected information and share it, that’s NOT ok and the school should pursue whatever recourse needed.

  33. Can’t think of anything clever*

    Names are so tricky. One major issue with one supervisor that I had to address several times, and her next manager also had to address, was she didn’t believe in nicknames so refused to use them. She had one of the people on her team in tears from frustration once because the person didn’t like their name and used a nickname instead and she insisted on calling them their “real” name. Think something like the name was Charlotte but she used Charlie or Lottie instead. Of all the things that could end up in a discipline situation this was the strangest for me!
    More practically, most conferences I’ve been to, both work and non work, in the past 10 years or so have a place to put how you want your name to appear on the badge. So “Alexandra Jane” and in smaller letters “Alexandra Smith”. If the conference isn’t doing that ask if they can reprint your badge. I worked the info desk at a national conference where probably 40 or 50 people asked for that.

    1. Ali + Nino*

      What a crazy hill to die on. Did she not believe in vacation, either, and refuse to allow anyone to use PTO?

    2. Bast*

      If someone named Charlotte asked me to “call me Lottie” then I’m calling them Lottie, and would feel pretty awkward calling them Charlotte after they specifically asked me to call them something else. Likewise, I’d feel so awkward just deciding to call her Lottie if she had introduced herself as Charlotte. Don’t people feel odd/awkward just calling people whatever they feel like? I can see if the name was something truly outlandish or inappropriate — “Call me Sugar Mama” at work likely isn’t the most professional and wouldn’t fly, but this is a far cry from that and such a weird hill for someone to die on.

  34. I should really pick a name*

    #3
    This is a situation where it’s probably best if you reset your internal expectations.
    Assume Alexandra Smith is what they’re going to use.
    If you assume it’s going to happen, there will be less disappointment for you when it does.

  35. Person from the Resume*

    Alexandra Jane Smith, you are not going win this battle.

    Some -actually most – of this is just the systems and norms. Many things like badges, certificate, forms letters just pull out the first and last name out of a software system hence getting people with double-barreled names wrong. It’s not even getting your name wrong. It is catching your first and last name. It’s just you’d like to see your middle name too.

    For manual stuff, society is generally good with first and last names. They might get double-barreled names right more than you because no one other than you has noticed and will remember that you prefer to include your middle name on official documents and signature.

    I know because I prefer my signature to be Katherine A. Smith. I write it myself that way all the time. Since I was asked how I would prefer it on my high school diploma and chose that (instead of my middle name written out). No one else ever does write it that except in the document template that I always sign and I had them change the template.

    I still put Katherine A. Smith adding the A in the name field in a lot of electronic documents that I sign. Sadly adobe doesn’t have my middle initial in my electronic signature so the electronic signature is wrong (because that’s the software default).

  36. HailRobonia*

    #1: I’ve even stopped using a Futurama wallpaper at work to avoid seeming unprofessional (you might guess from my name here that Futurama is almost a religion for me…).

  37. Our Business Is Rejoicing*

    #3, I empathize, but at least you’re being called something that is actually your first name.

    My hyphenated last name starts with a name that sounds like a somewhat common first name, but is spelled differently than the usual spelling for that first name. My name is right there in my email address and I always introduce myself (in email and in person) as my actual first name, but there are still people who just address me as Last Name, often spelled like the first name. If it’s in person, I gently correct them (and they’re either embarrassed or make a joke about it), but if it’s correspondence, I usually have to let it go because derailing a work conversation to make a name correction seems–I don’t know, unprofessional somehow?
    At least name tags are usually OK (although sometimes people drop the first part of the hyphenated name), but don’t get me started on companies (banks, for example) that don’t believe in hyphens.

    1. Our Business Is Rejoicing*

      I should also add that I hyphenated when I married. This same situation with my last-name-that-sounds-like-a-first-name happened before the hyphenation occurred.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I get this too, but it’s the second half – my husband’s name that I added, not my original last name – that I get called as if it were my first name.

        1. perspex*

          This happened to me all the time when I was married and had my husband’s last name, which sounds like a first name (although spelled very slightly differently). My name was something like “Angela Erinn.” I would introduce myself as Angela Erinn, and people would say, “Nice to meet you, Erin!”

          This also happened in email. I would close the email with “Angela,” and my full name was in the signature block, but people would reply with “Dear Erin.”

          To avoid this, I took to introducing myself by just my first name. The downside was being perceived as immature and/or unprofessional or out of place in a particular context. I’ve since divorced and changed back to my birth last name, but it has taken some time to break the habit and start introducing myself by first and last name when it’s appropriate

  38. TheBunny*

    LW#3

    I feel you. I really do. I have an incredibly common name, first and last. So I also use my middle name professionally. Does it get included on everything? No it does not.

    If its a daily thing like my email signature, I say something. If it’s a “you have one but never use it” such as the name badge we’re technically supposed to wear but don’t, I don’t bother.

    Not to say you have to do this, but it’s been the path of least resistance.

    Side-note: in my personal life I have a hyphenated name. As long as people don’t call me Mrs. (I prefer Ms.) I’ve decided to move on there too.

  39. AlexandraAlexandraAlexandra*

    I’m also an Alexandra! It is Truly Astonishing how many times I will say to someone, ‘Hi, I’m Alexandra,’ and they’ll pop right back with, ‘So are you Alexandra or Alexander?’ (fwiw, I am – I think – pretty obviously a cishet woman) or ‘Are you Alexandra or Alexandria?’ or – most irritating of all – just start calling me Alex.

    There is something about the name that just breaks people’s brains, when in the US. (I’ve never met a European or South American who couldn’t handle it, and I truly love you all for that, because it’s Just Four Syllables: yall have been saying Kardashian without any problem for years!)

    I can see why adding a ‘Jane’ (another beautiful name – it’s actually my dog’s name) to the name would just initiate total overwhelm, even though it’s not fair to Alexandra Jane.

    My sympathies to all my fellow Alexandras. #SayOurNamesSayOurNames

    1. Nancy*

      LW is not talking about what people call her though, she is talking about documents and ID badges, which are set up a standard way.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        Yeah, the confusion is coming from introducing herself one way, and wanting to be called that outloud, but wanting to be referred to in writing a different way, which is fine for her to prefer, but not a standard thing in most cultures I’m aware of. So there’s no signal to people to think of the possibility if they have not been previously told of this preference.

    2. LW3*

      Sadly Alexandra Jane Smith isn’t my name, but I think I’ve found a really nice name if I have a daughter in the future!
      I think part of this is because when I introduce myself, the first reply is almost always “that’s a beautiful/unusual name”, often in combination with it being mispronounced… And for any none Scottish people, often followed up with “and is it a traditional Scottish name?”. Nope, not even close, and explaining where it came from usually involves a slightly frustrating conversation around my ethnicity and religious beliefs…

      1. Ali + Nino*

        I think it’s great you love your name so much. But if these conversations are happening repeatedly, in contexts that you can expect to continue indefinitely (i.e., meeting new people for the first time), it might be helpful to come up with an “elevator pitch” or short, canned responses for expected questions/remarks. I find that having a go-to response I can repeat basically automatically alleviates a lot of the frustration.

    3. Bast*

      Anything over a syllable or two seems to throw people, (“too long! too difficult!” too ____!”) and they are looking for a nickname option. My name is three syllables. It isn’t wildly unusual or difficult, but plenty of people just shorten it without asking. Please, no. I introduced myself with the name I want to be called; don’t just make up your own. Like in your example, if I wanted to be called Alex, I’d introduce myself as Alex, not Alexandra. What’s frustrating is that this seems to take place even in more professional and formal settings, and I always feel like a jerk correcting them.

  40. Nancy*

    LW3: some things, like ID badges or work email addresses, are standard so you will either have to deal with it or ask specifically to have yours include your middle name. For something like a driver’s license, or your own email signature, fill it out with your middle name.

  41. Czhorat*

    #1 has me very torn. There’s a part of me that hates the move to purely impersonal, neutral backgrounds because it removes a chance to see eachother as individuals with more sides to us than a bland corporate face. There also are – as in this case – chances to severely misstep.

    Alison mentioned sports teams and politics as other things to keep away from – I personally see sports fandom, hobbies, family as things that are OK to have lurking in the background, and a glance at them gives everyone a little tiny hint of who you are. It humanizes and – sometimes – can even create a connection. You’re a Mets fan too? That’s wondrous, let’s talk about how exciting Luidangel Acuna’s first games have been, and the race for a wildcard spot.

    On the other hand, partisan politics – even those I agree with – have to be sequestered somewhat, as should proselytizing religion. I have a “I know it when I see it” view of religious things in the workplace. Someone has rosary beads on their desk? That’s fine with me. “The wages of sin is death?” Probably not.

    1. RVA Cat*

      This. I’m imagining a similar Southerner cultural context where he has hobby photos of himself in a Bad Guy uniform.

    2. Aaron*

      Not a sports person myself, but in my experience they seem to be a “safe” safe way to brag or tease.
      A joke about politics or religion is going to hit pretty close to home for a lot of people, but bragging about your team winning (or your loyalty despite them always losing) isn’t going to upset everyone.

  43. Hiring Manager (they/them)*

    I feel like the response to LW #3 is a little off base, apart from the point of “if you introduce yourself as Alexandra everywhere and never tell people you go by Alexandra Jane, no one will call you Alexandra Jane.” People aren’t mind readers and I get that.

    On the other hand, I don’t like the undercurrent of “some people just aren’t going to listen to your name preferences and you need to be okay with that.” When we allow that rhetoric to creep in, we end up inadvertently creating hostile work environments for trans people. It’s just their “preference” that they want to not be deadnamed – we don’t actually have to do it, right?

    I get that that’s not the intention – however, I think if we’re unable to respect the most generic cisgender nickname/full name/legal name/hyphenated name “preferences”; we’re going to struggle extra hard when it comes to trans and gender non-conforming staff being deadnamed or misgendered – because we don’t have practice just casually correcting each other over things like nicknames. I know that some people might say that there’s a difference, but if we’re not going to handle the easiest of soft balls, why would we think we can handle a major league pitch?

    1. Person from the Resume*

      This is not spoken name preference. People are calling Alexandra by the first name she prefers to be called.

      This is when it how it is written on formal documents. Alexandra has a non-standard preference which people do not remember (respect ??) because they default to the standard first last name when writing names.

      It is not the same as the name you call someone regularly. You should probably expect Alexandra’s secretary to remember how she likes her name written in her signature block. You cannot expect someone at a conference to know (mind-read) that Alexandra wants her middle name on her name badge which is different than 95% of the people at the conference.

    2. doreen*

      I disagree a bit – I don’t think it’s a matter of “some people just aren’t going to listen to your name preferences and you need to be okay with that.” in either the advice or the comments. The LW doesn’t actually say she has ever specifically asked to have her middle name included and was refused or even that she asked for it and it simply wasn’t done. The way it reads ( and I could of course be wrong) is that she not only believes that middle names belong on important documents whether the middle name is used in daily life or not but she believes that other people should know that and also know which documents she believes are important without her needing to request it. I think the undercurrent is not that she has to be okay with people refusing to follow her preferences but rather “people are going to mess this up even when you tell them your preferences and you can either accept it or get upset every time the person who knows you want your middle name on your badge is out sick and someone else is handling it or your middle name is left out because of a character limit etc”

      1. LW3*

        Mostly I’ve always just not wanted to rock any boats, but I’m realising it is completely OK to ask for it to be written as I’d like it to be. If they say no, I can deal with that.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      Nah, it’s totally okay for OP to speak up and assert her preferences, and all the “people won’t automatically call you Alexandra Jane” comments were encouraging her to speak up, I thought. Though I can see how OP may have felt she was asking people to go against the grain, it’s actually more important to speak up if you’re not an easy fit with the most common conventions.

      1. LW3*

        That’s exactly what it was – I know I have unusual preferences (I have an unusual name anyway) but didn’t want to go against the grain. While some of the comments have felt like “shut up and deal with it”, most have shown me it’s okay to ask, and that I should ask!

  44. Jennifer Strange*

    For #1, assuming these are computers the employer is providing for work, I think you (or the employer) should provide a neutral background (or a selection of them) for employees to choose from. This will help avoid the bulk of rule-lawyering from folks who are mad they can’t have an obviously inappropriate background on their computer during presentations (“Oh, so Jane can have a quote from her favorite book, Little Women, but I can’t have a quote from the Bible which is my favorite book????”).

    If they are the employee’s own computers being used as work computers you can still insist on neutral backgrounds during presentations, you’ll just likely get more pushback about having to change something they paid for (and I would highly recommend providing them with company-paid work computers, even if just for situations where their screen will be visible to multiple people.)

    1. Ellis Bell*

      This is why so many companies have standardised emails signatures. A few people put quotes in from those beloved and famous icons of their particular industry and then other people think “cool way to individualise my sig” but take it too far with religious and political messages.

  45. Yes And*

    Alison wrote: “As his manager, it would be 100% okay to require that all your trainers use neutral presentation backgrounds with no personal messages on them (this would cover not just religion, but sports, politics, marijuana leaves, and on and on).”

    My desktop background is a picture of my kids doing a science experiment. Once in a long while, when I’m presenting on Zoom, the picture will flash up for an instant. (If it provokes a reaction at all, it’s usually along the lines of, “Awwwww.”) Does that fall under the category of “personal” stuff I should change when I’m presenting, or since it’s opinion-free (unlike all of the examples Alison gave) is it okay to leave?

    1. spcepickle*

      I think you are fine – There is a big difference between I sometimes share on Zoom (especially if it in internal) and I am a professional trainer who knows my background it up on a screen for extended periods of time.

      If you knew you were doing large external presentation it might be practical to change your background to something branded for your company.

      I like this to zoom backgrounds. My company puts out branded backgrounds, but turns out you can load your own picture in. People have done some very creative things with uploading their own pictures – but in formal presentation I would always revert to branded backgrounds.

  46. TheBunny*

    LW#2

    I see your concern, but wow I’d tread lightly here.

    It might have been Milo’s dad who told Milo Jake’s scores. But why? Even if he has access to look, why would he?

    I have access to the pay info for my entire company but don’t look at it unless I’m filling out a form or handling a merit increase as I just… don’t really care that much. And I’m struggling to come up with a reason that the guy in IT, with access as you say to all that info, would use that power to look up test scores of other kids.

    Could he have? Sure. But it’s not the 1st thing I’d think he’d look at so if for no other reason than that, I’d be careful making or stating something that is an assumption.

    The next reason I’d be careful is Milo is only at the school because his dad works there. If you make the accusation and it’s not able to be proven or disproved, could that potentially risk the IT guy’s job? Could the school decide to not use him next year, just in case? It seems to me that they could, at least potentially. And while the bad actor in this is the dad, the long term suffering and loss of access to what is likely a really great education is going to ultimately be suffered by Milo.

    Personally I’d start by talking to your son, then the others involved. I would then make certain I was positive where Jack learned the info before I’d say anything to anyone.

    I’d also really consider the possible implications. Jack should IMO have been told his scores. They are, after all, his scores. Is the leaking of that info worth risking another child’s access to that education? Maybe it is to you, and that’s your right, but were it me I’d have a stern chat with the dad (if he actually told Milo) lay all this out, and not say anything unless something similar happens again.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, I’d talk to the parent and see if they actually know anything about this. If they did leak, a stern warning should scare them off from any repeat.

      Milo may have learned from another teacher, or a student who hacked or just sneaked a peak at a written list.

      It might even be Jack who did this, told Milo and is not telling you because you hid the info from him. Worst case is you get your own kid expelled because you were prepared to sacrifice another.

      1. TheBunny*

        Exactly.

        I’m big on doing the right thing and following the rules. But in this case, the child who didn’t really do anything has more to lose than the parent who may or may not have even done anything.

  47. A Book about Metals*

    Mentioned this in another comment but on #2, could Jack have just gotten the scores from the school himself? My kids are in HS so maybe it’s different but they have the same access we do as parents to all their grades/test scores/etc.

    1. Glazed Donut*

      It could also be possible that a teacher shared them – for example, and English teacher met with each student about the scores, any concerns, and a plan for improvement (if needed). Definitely not out of the realm of possibility with elite private schools – this is a “proactive” measure for some concerned parents who want to know how the school is going to address any non-perfect score…

    2. Roeslein*

      I hope so, I find the concept of a 10-year-old (I assume) not being considered mature enough to know *their own test scores* pretty terrifying. If anything they might be allowed to keep it from their parents (if, say, the school knows the parents will punish / put a lot of pressure on the kid if they don’t get perfect grades) but the other way around is just wrong…

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, I’d surprised – and dismayed – if a student can’t obtain their own scores themselves at that age.

    4. LizB*

      Yeah, Occam’s Razor says to me that Jack found out what his scores were at school and shared the info with Milo. The idea that Milo would independently go “hey dad, what were my friend Jack’s standardized test scores?” and dad would go “yeah lemme look that up for ya, I see no reason not to – he got a 45 in spelling and a 79 in reading comprehension” seems less likely than your son sharing his scores with a friend and that friend deciding to be a jerk about it, as tweens sometimes do.

      Also, as a recovering perfectionist, I’d like to gently suggest that it’s okay for Jack to learn that he can do poorly on a test and the world will not end. You know that his 45 in spelling doesn’t define him, but by hiding the number from him, you’re acting like it does. If I had worked on shedding my perfectionism earlier than college, my school years would have been a lot better.

  48. KatieP*

    LW1 reminded me of a time that a trainer shared a YouTube video during a session to ~50 people, including some C-suite types (higher education equivalent). He wasn’t paying attention at the end of the video, and the next suggested video was tips and tricks for… self-enjoyment, shall we say. The title of the video was more clinical, and left zero room for interpretation.

    He had his back turned to the display, and it took about 3 minutes for someone to get up the nerve to quietly tell him what YouTube was suggesting for him. I have to give him this, he kept right on trucking as if it was a video on weather-treating your driveway.

    Made us all wonder what was in his browsing history, though.

    1. Czhorat*

      We know exactly what his browsing history is like.

      That’s a hazard of using public internet services like YouTube rather than hosting the actual videos you want to share. That’s one where I’d not blame him nearly as much as I would the person in the letter; it was not only a genuine accident, but one which many people would not have anticipated.

    2. Bitte Meddler*

      When I took Business Law, the professor would play silly videos during the first 5 minutes of class on Exam Day.

      One of the videos was a Chat Roulette thing where a guy was dressed in crazy outfits and doing goofy dance moves to “Call Me Maybe”. The split-screen of him vs the people on the other end of the chat was *hilarious*.

      And when the video ended, the next one was something about “adult” video conversations.

      I don’t think my prof was using his work computer to look up stuff like that, just that the YouTube algorithm had said, “Oh, you like the risqué Chat Roulette stuff? Then you’ll probably like this, too.”

      But whatever anxiety we test-takers still had after the Chat Roulette video, it was squashed by the suggested next video which had the entire class howling.

      1. Czhorat*

        Even if he doesn’t use his work PC for questionable content, it’s possible that he’s logged into the same personal account that he DOES use for that (say to check personal email), and the algorithm followed him.

  49. DataSci*

    I would be blunter than Alison for the situation in LW1. “Distracting and off-topic” doesn’t go far enough. Blatant proselytizing as part of work training is offensive, and I would call it out as such. Too often people act as though religion being a protected class means they get to do whatever they want as long as it’s part of their religion, rather than that ALL religious beliefs (including none) needing to be respected in the workplace.

    Requiring neutral backgrounds while presenting or training is a good policy.

    1. A Book about Metals*

      I’m not sure what more there was to be done with #1 – someone in the group talked to the presenter and it was shut down, so whatever they said worked

    2. Czhorat*

      I’m an atheist, and even I think this is going a bit far; it’s entirely possible that the trainer had put that on his background thoughtlessly rather than maliciously, especially given that he took it down once he got a complaint. He didn’t (so far as we know) push back, and it’s possible he learned his lesson. It’s also possible that having seen the reaction it got he now knows not to do that anymore.

      That should be enough.

  50. Not a Real Giraffe*

    OP4: I’m an event planner. Name badges are made with mail merge-type technology. We choose to import the “first name” and “last name” fields to populate the badges. If you want your middle name to appear on these types of things, you need to include your middle name in the “first name” field when registering for these types of events. Or email the conference organizers ahead of time so they can edit their registration data set. How else are the event planners supposed to know this preference?

    If you want to be called “Alexandra Jane,” you need to stop introducing yourself as just “Alexandra.” You’re setting people up to fail; they have no idea your preference is for the full name.

  51. Frosty*

    I went to school with a woman that has a mononym (like Cher or Bono). She is part of an ethnic group that has mononyms, and she also had a name that was a repeated word – like Cher Cher or Bono Bono.

    The number of people that assumed her first name was Cher and her last name was Cher was basically everyone – even when she’d say repeatedly “no my name is Cher Cher”. I set her name in my phone autocorrect to fill out her full name as soon as the first was typed so that I’d never get it wrong.

    She was very good natured about it and I totally understand why people would get it wrong, but I would cringe every time someone called her Cher.

    Anyways yeah… names can be hard! No one pronounces my first name right…. I think we should all just get better at correcting (and being corrected) and moving on in the convo. <3

    1. Frosty*

      I should have been clearer, but her name isn’t “Cher Cher” I just wanted to use that as an example and not actually post her real name :)

  52. Kuleta*

    LW3: I had the opposite issue growing up in the American South, where double first names (DN) like Mary Ann are common.

    I was always called by a DN, because my parents took it from friends who called their daughter by that name. Thing was, I always hated it but I was stuck with it!

    We moved far away in my teens, and after a few months I realized I could drop my middle name. Family and old friends still use my DN out of habit, but that’s it.

    1. Frosty*

      My dad’s family was always called by their middle name only which is quite strange. When my dad was about 30, he started going by his first name. Even when I was a kid people would come up to him calling him by his middle name. I always knew how to “carbon date” those friends and when they knew my dad. Names are honestly quite odd if I think about it too much

      1. sparkle emoji*

        I can do the same thing with people who know my mom, she has a name like Jennifer and now goes by Jenn, but was Jenny/Jenny Anne as a kid.

      2. LW3*

        My Dad has always used the same name, but has a different nickname – always fun to work out how someone knows him by what they call him! I come from a tradition of strong familial nicknames, so I’m glad I didn’t automatically inherit his as lots of kids I was in school with did.
        Names and nicknames are a fascinating thing! There are people I’ve known my whole life and I don’t know their actual name (but nobody calls them their nickname to their face…)

  53. Kate*

    Alexandra Jane Smith, I think an easy fix for part of this would be to bring your own name badge to events requiring them. If your field is super aggro about having the right branded name badge to enter conference spaces, you could probably design a sticky label (think address label size) with the right info to stick onto the branded one.

    1. The Unionizer Bunny*

      I’ve seen badges in the style of “Alexandra ‘Jane’ Smith”, indicating both legal name and nickname. What about ” ‘Alexandra Jane’ Smith”? Or, if the first and middle names are short enough, combining them into a single word? If the goal is to get people addressing LW3 with the right sounds, not also understanding the meaning of those sounds, that may suffice to get everyone thinking about LW3’s name that way.

      Transparency: pass 1, comment 6/6

  54. Jellyfish Catcher*

    #2: I realize this isn’t the issue discussed.
    For the parents: the long range issue is learning that we all have limitations, things like illness come up and how to deal well when that happens.
    Being a perfectionist is tough, as life is never perfect and we are never perfect.

    We need resilience and faith in ourselves to navigate the ups and downs of life.
    Your son was ill when he took that test – things happen that we can’t control and that doesn’t undermine our worthiness.
    My take would be to help your son learn that now, while young, and seek some therapy to help him do so.

  55. Ms. Whatsit*

    Re: LW1, I think it’s just reasonable to ask for work laptops being used for presentations to keep it neutral or company-related during that time. It doesn’t really matter during other times, so I don’t see a need to police it outside of that (I might not agree with anyone’s given message but if it’s not in my face it’s not really my concern). If the device is a shared one, obviously that’s different. It may be good just to have a policy of using a company-related wallpaper during presentations. When I worked at a non-profit where we used our own devices, we had a practice of temporarily changing our desktop backgrounds during conferences so that it was always on brand/promoting the event/clean looking.

    Without getting into the specific comments or a religious discussion, I would gently encourage not reading too much into a message from a religion or culture one isn’t a part of. Doesn’t mean anyone has to like anything or can’t form an opinion, but it’s good to know that there are all sorts of things which should be taken within their own context, and it’s very likely those of us from other cultural, religious, etc., backgrounds don’t have the full picture.

  56. CubeFarmer*

    RE LW#2, my father worked in the same school system as the one I attended. He was privy to A LOT of very sensitive information about my classmates and he breathed not one word about it to me, ever. If Milo’s father leaked that information (and as Alison writes, you don’t know that he did,) I would absolutely report it. Maybe you need to start an easy-breezy conversation with Jack, “Hey, I heard Milo was teasing you about your scores, did he say how he found them?”

  57. Moose*

    LW2, unless there’s more to this story that you haven’t written here, it looks like you want to report someone and endanger his job over literally nothing but suspicions and assumptions. That’s not a good look. Talk to Jack. Ask how Miles knew Jack’s test score. At this point you have done literally nothing to investigate and it sounds like you’re ready to get someone fired.

    None of this is a good look.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I’d also have a much higher bar for endangering someone’s job if that automatically means wrecking their child’s education too.
      If this is in the US and not unionised, then I’d worry that even suspicion of wrongdoing without real proof could get the dad sacked.

      1. CubeFarmer*

        I mean, to be fair, if the father actually did this (and we don’t know) then he endangered his own job. Confidentiality is confidentiality.

        1. Moose*

          I agree. But right now, there’s literally no evidence or even an accusation. It’s just a big assumption on OP’s part. There are many ways Jack could have gotten those scores that are not Milo’s dad.

    2. The Unionizer Bunny*

      Talk to the union. (Most schools have one.) They will have a witness not on the employer’s side present for these investigations. They won’t be trigger-happy on the firing. But they also won’t overlook whether there actually was misconduct. It will be a real investigation, not this “look for an explanation that LW2 can accept” nonsense. Anyone in real danger of losing their job (or enrollment) may lie to cover it up – avoid granting predators a social “license to operate”, avoid creating a culture of “if you see something, check in with the potential predator to find out whether you should say something”. (It frankly begins to look like a movie where people do stupid things for the sake of the plot – you can see the main character walking into trouble, and you know the baddies will waylay them, and there is no good reason for them to have gone in without backup or at least letting someone (the cavalry?) know they would be going.)

      I disapprove of discouraging LW2 from alerting others to a potential problem when there is a mere chance it may result in consequences (and only if someone deserves them!) – it’s this kind of thinking that leads people to ask bosses “You didn’t mean that in an illegal way, did you?”, letting bosses realize “Oh, this person knows the laws!” and begin setting up a pretext to get them the hell out of that workplace. “Of course I didn’t mean it that way!” [boss rushes to remove all evidence]

      Transparency: pass 1, comment 1/6

      2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        I’d consider case by case basis rather than always saying to report coworkers for – possibly – breaking their rules of employment.
        It would also depend on whether the employer could only fire with evidence, which might not be the case in the US.

        If there was any possibility of a predator I’d be reporting immediately. However, this is so much less serious – if it was indeed Milo’s dad who leaked – someone leaking test scores and maybe even then only to the kid they belonged to.

        If this leak were proven, I’d expect a union to be advocating a final warning, but not firing.

        1. The Unionizer Bunny*

          Sorry for the wording, I didn’t factor in that “predator” has a different connotation in lower-student-age schools. The problem is that when we create a culture of overlooking or keeping silent about trivial offenses, we can also provide cover to people whose offenses are more serious, but who are able to downplay what they did. Then, years later, a chance comment gets people talking about that one person who “just” did one thing and learned his lesson, except it turns out he kept doing it with a lot of other people, and nobody ever had occasion to compare notes because they didn’t want to get him in trouble over something that looked bad but, when they asked him about it, turned out to be a misunderstanding. An investigation would have uncovered it – and, of course, often the investigation did discover it, but then management covered it right back up because they didn’t want to be held vicariously liable.

          Transparency: pass 2, comment 1/1

        2. The Unionizer Bunny*

          It’s better if a union knows before the employer – not just to get witness statements before management can sweep in heavy-handed and intimidate people (disturbing their memories of key events), but in case management has a hidden interest in destroying/planting evidence or preparing their own witnesses with incriminating/exonerating testimony. Don’t let them set the investigation schedule to fit their own behind-the-scenes actions.

          “I was cut off by a red sedan this morning, and your shirt is red. You’re fired.”
          “But sir, my shirt is blue.” (doesn’t matter, the boss doesn’t need to be correct)

          “I was cut off by a red sedan this morning, and your shirt is blue. You’re fired.”
          (the boss doesn’t need to have a reason that makes any SENSE, either)

          Barring a contrary contract (and the entire state of Montana), employers can fire someone for any lawful reason, and even if it’s not lawful, they often get away with it because attorneys have to eat, too, and filing a wrongful termination lawsuit might not bring in enough to pay the attorney for their work on it. If the government investigates, a wrongfully-terminated employee might be entitled only to “make-whole” remedies, where they get back the money they would have earned if they had still been working – and they still have to pay all their own expenses until the case is resolved and the company actually doles out a settlement, which may have already been less than make-whole because they were about to be starving/homeless and the company pressured them into taking a compromise deal simply to get something guaranteed when they needed it instead of the hope of a bit more when the company couldn’t stall anymore. (And yes, the company will be losing a lot more money on attorneys’ fees than they would have by simply paying out to begin with, but they make it back by discouraging everyone else from even trying to hold them accountable.)

          Employment rights in the U.S. are weak, and employers, knowing that, prey on workers. But if you have a union, it doesn’t go to firing and then an individual filing a lawsuit to get back in – it goes to “breach of contract” and everyone’s union dues pay for a good pro-labor attorney pursuing the case). But even before that, a good union rep will be sitting in the room with HR/management when they announce the firing, and immediately say “If you don’t go through the due-process laid out in our CBA, every bargaining unit here is going to lay down their tools and walk away until you bring old-Spock back.” If your CBA says “discipline has to escalate through verbal/written warnings before ending employment”, the union will insist on it.

          Transparency: pass 3, comment 1/3

      3. Hyaline*

        But why jump to alerting the school without having conversations with the kids first? It would make a giant mess to alert the school and force them into opening an investigation if oooops turns out Jack knew how to access his scores without Mom knowing. Cart, move behind the horse please.

        1. Dahlia*

          LW2 has talked to their son and has confirmed that Jack did not know his score. LW2 also confirmed that scores ONLY go to parents at their school at this age.

          1. Moose*

            Then LW needs to report “Hey my kid and this other kid appear to have known their scores on this test. I didn’t tell my kid his score. I would like an investigation into finding out how my kid knew his score.” There’s no need to bring Milo’s dad into it at all based, again, on pure speculation and assumptions.

              1. Moose*

                I’m just reminding the commenter of the states best way to handle it because they seem to believe that the fact that Milo’s dad did it is a done deal. I didn’t say anything about Alison’s response because I thought it was basically good. I also think the fact that the LW jumped immediately to saying they wanted to accuse the dad is a bad look. I have no idea what your problem with my comments is.

                1. The Unionizer Bunny*

                  I read “potentially sharing confidential information” as LW2 being conscious of how serious this would be – if it were true. In other words, wanting to do the right thing but also worried about the secondary effects. I don’t think “LW2 wanted to accuse the dad” is a fair characterization – to me, it sounded more like LW2 knew how to handle potential FERPA violations (notify the school so the leak will be cut off before it continues to affect other students) but also anticipated potential fallout and mapped out the areas it might spread through. That’s not a bad look.

                  Why require that LW2 investigate and acquire evidence before notifying trained investigators of a possible FERPA violation? I’m advocating a more balanced approach: yes, be aware that this might have severe consequences for those involved, but use that foresight to prepare for the worst. A union can check around with its other members to find out if anyone was discussing Jack’s grades out loud where students might have overheard, they won’t just talk to Milo’s father.

                  And, again, a union also won’t overlook real misconduct – the rep isn’t an external figure, it’s one of the people who work there, someone who was elected by the workers to represent them and their interests, which usually include safety! If the peers of Milo’s father want everyone in their school to respect student confidentiality, their union rep won’t simply be covering up for an employee’s misconduct – they’ll be wanting to find out the truth. It’s a common criticism of unions that employers can’t fire anyone who did something wrong, but the reality is that employers can’t simply invent allegations of wrongdoing – a union will force them to have due process. But a union won’t simply close ranks and prevent employees from ever being held accountable. If an employee did do something wrong, and they’ve had their final warning, the union – remember, literally the other employees – will be ready to get him fired.

                  We can’t be so horrified at the idea of “Oh no! A child might have to move to a different school!” that we refuse to give potentially-useful information to investigators! They know how to treat that kind of information – if they weren’t already looking at Milo’s father (and it sounds like the school would know about his father’s I.T. work), they would factor that into the investigation, but they wouldn’t ignore all other leads and immediately broadcast “We found a person who was violating FERPA!” to the public. The difficult part shouldn’t be “whether to tell anyone about this”, but how to make sure Milo’s dad receives due process – and that’s only at risk when school investigators are corrupt. And, frankly, I’d expect the investigators’ first questions to include “Can you think of anyone with the means or motive to do this?” because the parents are always closest to the kids and often have some idea already. Giving them relevant information shouldn’t be discouraged as “suspicions, assumptions, and speculation” – they already know how to evaluate the quality of information (including testimony of dubious veracity). What investigators won’t require is that a parent already have evidence before even telling anyone – that’s literally what the investigation is for! Give them all the information that might be relevant, they’ll figure out what actually is. (Also consider that Milo’s father might eventually fall under greater suspicion if he had more time to destroy evidence; a prompt investigation could be what exonerates him.)

                  I personally think Milo was bluffing (“Test scores are kept secret, so Jack won’t know I’m just making up numbers! He probably got better scores than what I said but he doesn’t know that.”) but potential FERPA violations ought to be investigated and the kids need to see their teachers and parents leading a life/culture where even possible wrongdoing is reported and investigated.

                  Transparency: pass 3, comment 3/3

        2. The Unionizer Bunny*

          But why is there any obligation to ask the kids at all? If anything, I’d be worried about the kids spreading rumors – we already have reason to think that Milo is willing to share secret information when it can make him look better, what about the risk that he would create rumors to throw someone else under the bus as a cover-up? There’s not that much of a difference between “make myself look good” and “avoid looking bad” – if he gained inappropriate access to anyone’s records, whether it be breaking into a teacher’s desk at school or sneaking into his father’s study to look at his I.T. laptop, whoever kept those records safe would be mad at him, so he can instead talk about how he overheard a couple of teachers talking about it. Crisis averted!

          But only because a parent went looking for a comforting story that would placate their pesky “conscience”. When you seek out opportunities for someone to fast-talk you into overlooking a potentially serious problem, you may get exactly what you were after: a culture normalizing years of unreported abuse punctuated by horrified “But he was always so well-behaved! Nobody could have seen this behavior coming!”

          Good investigators will be discreet (employers often prefer to avoid the barest whisper of impropriety because of the negative reputation attaching to their school because of it), and they can separate witnesses before questioning to make sure that, for instance, Milo doesn’t have a chance to tell his dad what’s going on before the investigator has a chance to ask Milo’s dad a few questions. Company investigators may be corrupt in the employer’s favor, though – against employees – so alerting the union is a good way of keeping the school honest.

          Transparency: pass 3, comment 2/3

    3. allathian*

      Milo’s dad has a history of being extremely competitive where his kid is concerned. The LW has commented elsewhere that Milo’s dad got caught spying on a parent-teacher conference using security footage. I think that the LW rather buried the lede by not mentioning that in the letter…

      But given that he wasn’t fired for spying, I doubt he’d be fired without an investigation following the LW’s report.

  58. a clockwork lemon*

    OP 3 – I went by my middle name until about halfway through college when I switched to my first name for job search reasons. My resume has my full legal name on it because there are still people in my professional orbit who know me by my first name. The magic trick I’ve found for having the full name attached to your company stuff is to put BOTH names in the “First Name” field instead of splitting them up into First and Middle. You may have missed your window on the badge but it should be a simple fix with HR and IT to get your name updated internally.

  59. Somewhat crazy*

    Ouch, #1 is tricky. I currently have a semi religious phone background, (I designed it myself, it’s super cute!) but I also have multiple secular/professional backgrounds. Plus, it’s always pretty intentional when I show it, because I switch my backgrounds up every weeks depending on what I need.
    If I were in charge of him, I’d probably say, “Hey, is it possible to change the background to a generic background for the rest of the training? We don’t want the company to look like we favor one religion.”
    But to be honest, if I was below him, I’d wouldn’t say anything. I’m not brave enough.

    1. allathian*

      The manager has the authority to require him to change the background when he’s presenting to an audience. I would be very uncomfortable and I’d probably complain to whoever organized the training.

  60. Canadian J*

    OP#1:

    If I were in your shoes, and I got the Senior Leader position, I would also consider having all your team have the same desktop background whilst they are providing active training – and I would make that background myself, and pass it along to the team to use.

    It can be training-related as well; using accessibility-friendly colours and font, it could be as simple as a text box that says “This training session is provided by the CompanyName Training Team. If you have any questions, comments, or feedback, please send them to this email address.” and then maybe a graphic with the company logo or contact, to tie everything together.

    Best of luck!

  61. Pyanfar*

    RE LW1 — The thing I like best about Alison’s advice is to state the expectation in positive terms (show a neutral background) rather than negative terms (don’t show a religious/political/personal background). This works in so many contexts! My takeaway for today, state expectations, whenever possible, as a positive “what I want done”!

  62. RagingADHD*

    #1, if you’re interviewing for the position that supervises the trainer, I would assume you’re in contact with the current supervisor or the interim persin in that role. Since it appears to have been handled pretty quickly with minimal disruption to the training, maybe you should discuss their approach with them.

    #2 has Jack asked Milo how he got info about the scores? This seems like the quickest way to determine the source. Is Jack bothered about it? Have you discussed it with him? Jumping straight to “report to authorities” seems like you are skipping the step of talking to the students involved (aka your kid) to find out what really happened.

  63. Observer*

    #2 – Shared information

    Report it! REPORT IT.

    I cannot tell you how strongly I feel about it, but I think you can see a bit of it from the way I put this.

    The IT guy is going into data that he has no need to see and is slopping it around like birdseed to a bunch of carrier pigeons.

    There is a reason this is a firing offense!

    1. He’s doing something gross.
    2. He’s breaking the law
    3. He’s putting the school at major risk
    4. He’s putting kids at risk
    5. He’s being SO sloppy and is showing SUCH bad judgement that it’s reasonable to worry what other risks he’s exposing the school and students to.

    Look, I feel bad for his kid(s). But that does not and *cannot* over-weigh the risks to everyone else – including your own child!

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      The OP doesn’t know Milo’s dad is the leak, just that the 2 boys were talking about the test scores.
      Maybe Jack’s teacher told him because he didn’t think it was, or should be, kept from him.
      Maybe Milo left his screen unlocked for a few minutes and Jack sneaked a look, so Milo would get a warning but Jack would be expelled – Milo might lash out and claim this anyway.

      1. Observer*

        The OP doesn’t know Milo’s dad is the leak, just that the 2 boys were talking about the test scores.

        The LW should report what they know, which is that the data leaked. It’s on the school to figure out how that happened and to take the appropriate measures. Milo knew the actual scores, which should not have been possible.

        If it turns out to be Milo’s dad, then everything I said above holds true. If it turns out that it was not Milo’s dad that’s at fault, everything I said applies to whoever is doing it. So, the school *needs* to know that this leak is happening.

        I sincerely hope for everyone’s sake that the school does the right and *sensible* thing and figures out where the leak is rather than jumping to conclusions. Because if it’s not Milo’s dad, they have even bigger problems and they need to fix them immediately.

        Maybe Milo left his screen unlocked for a few minutes and Jack sneaked a look

        How would Milo have had Jack’s scores on his screen? If that actually happened, that it would be even worse than someone blabbing about stuff they are not supposed to be seeing.

        1. A Book about Metals*

          To me a much simpler explanation is Jack just asked a teacher or someone at the school for his own scores.

          There’s no indication that this is supposed to be something that only the parents can access. At my kids’ school they have access to everything regarding their academics that we as parents do.

          I suppose the dad could have done it too, but I’d want to make sure there was something to get upset about in the first place.

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            Per a comment from the LW Jack said he didn’t know how Milo knew his scores, so it sounds like Jack didn’t ask (or at least he didn’t tell Milo). Not saying that means the dad definitely did it, but someone seems to have allowed it to slip.

            1. Sar*

              And that Milo’s dad is competitive to the point of spying on parent-teacher conferences via security footage. I hope everyone exonerating Milo’s dad and telling LW2 that they’re paddling up the wrong creek and probably Jack found out himself takes this moment and gives LW2 the credit they deserve.

              1. allathian*

                Yes, the security footage stuff is bad. I’m willing to believe all the bad things said about Milo’s dad based on that alone. He has no scruples or morals and shouldn’t be allowed to work a job where he has access to other people’s personal info.

          2. Sneaky Squirrel*

            LW is a teacher at this school so it’s likely LW would know the school’s protocols around the another teacher’s ability to share test scores with the student to have considered this possibility.

            1. A Book about Metals*

              You are right, i totally missed that. Even though it was the very first sentence in the question :)

        2. Hyaline*

          All the LW actually knows is that their kid has information that they did not share with him. They don’t have any evidence of where he got it and made the leap that a friend’s parent leaked info without their son’s knowledge or consent—if that’s true, yes, it’s bad. But risking someone getting fired because of a giant leap to one of many conclusions that could be drawn here? Nope. They need to talk to their kid first, then expand the conversation based on what they learn.

          1. Myrin*

            OP does have evidence of where Jack got the information from – she heard the conversation between Milo and Jack herself and it was clear that this was the first Jack heard of his scores. She also asked Jack about it afterwards and he didn’t know where Milo got the information from, either, and was too stunned in the moment to ask.
            (OP posted under “LW2” above and also shared some further info on Milo’s dad.)

          2. Jennifer Strange*

            No one is saying they should just accuse Milo’s dad, but (as they have confirmed they did talk to their son, who confirmed he doesn’t know how Milo found out) they should still report to the school that a leak happened.

  64. Liberal Southern Hippie Mom*

    Double Name Drama.
    I’m not proud to admit that I did this to my children. My daughter has a double name (Mary Jane), but we actually call her by her middle name (just Jane). And to complicated it, when she was born, I gave her my maiden name (Mary Jane Smith), but then had it changed when I married her father (Mary Jane Jones) when she was in elementary school. To this day, there are people who think she’s Mary Smith and people who think she’s Jane Jones and …… I’m afraid it’s only going to get worse when she becomes an adult. She’s already had someone accuse her of lying about her identity. I just tell her to blame her Liberal Southern Hippie Mom. So, anyway, Alexandra Jane, just be glad that I’m not your mom.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      People are definitely being weird and lazy about your daughter’s name: She was Mary Jane Smith before it changed to Mary Jane Jones and she prefers to go by Jane. That’s not hard or complicated! Anyone who thinks it is has bigger problems. Half of our new students go by their middle name and/or had a name change before high school.

    2. LW3*

      I have the middle name Jane in case I didn’t like my first name (think Calisto or something equally unusual). I very occasionally use it in places where it doesn’t matter (coffee shops etc), but go by my first name because I like it.

      I get your frustration ‐ I have my Dad’s surname but Mum kept her surname, so when I was at home, we’d sometimes get calls for Mrs “Smith” and have to figure out if they meant Ms Smith (me) or Ms Jones (Mum)….

  65. Fig Season*

    The US currently has a problem with certain populations believing that their religious practices are more important and should be protected OVER everyone else’s civil rights.

    To be clear, uninvited proselytization is harassment and employees should be protected from harassment at work. Managers should not be cowed by first amendment or religious freedom claims into allowing their employees to be harassed. (Which is what happened to me; management was unwilling to say anything about someone planning to harass me based on my religion because they claimed any intervention would be seen as forbidding discussion of religion at work.)
    Stand strong, LW1, and protect your employees from harassment.

  66. Observer*

    #1- Religious messages
    Would a blanket “don’t have a religious background when projecting to an audience at work” rule be legally appropriate?

    I would say that it is the most legally appropriate message, unless you go with Alison’s verbiage, which I agree is better because it covers a lot of potentially problematic stuff.

    I would not say anything if it were just on his personal desktop, just as I would not say anything if someone wore a religious pendant. But when you are projecting that is part of your message to an audience that may not have a lot of options, or might have options that could harm the company. It’s part of the official company message in a way, and the official company message should not be religious (unless you are actually a religious institution.)

    But keeping it general means it’s not about this particular religion nor is it about this particular message. Because the last thing you want is to get into a discussion of “how violent is it REALLY? And how violent is too violent?”

  67. Tesuji*

    LW#2:

    It’s weird to me that hardly any comments seem to care about the LW’s son’s friendships.

    I mean, if Milo’s dad shared confidential information then sure, screw him, and if Milo ends up having his education destroyed over that… well, capitalism sucks and the LW has no duty to give a single f__k more about the kid than they want to.

    But… why would you describe someone as your son’s “best friend” and not take a moment to contemplate that reporting this suspicion is going to lead to a sequence of events that will end that friendship. More than that, without knowing the group dynamics, it’s entirely possible for such a thing to cause ripple effects that end up destroying her kid’s social life.

    Kind of feels like the LW is so caught up in being right that the concept of a pyrrhic victory hasn’t even occurred to her.

    1. Observer*

      But… why would you describe someone as your son’s “best friend” and not take a moment to contemplate that reporting this suspicion is going to lead to a sequence of events that will end that friendship.

      Actually, the LW *is* very explicitly considering that. The problem is that what has happened here is serious enough that the school *needs* to be informed about this.

      And if anyone ever finds out that “Milo’s dad got fired because Jack’s parents told on him” there are so many other problems with the place that I don’t think I’d want my kid there, no matter how “elite” the school is. Because that kind of information should *never* be leaked!

  68. SnickersKat*

    #3 I had the opposite problem when I got married 10 years ago. I wasn’t attached to my middle name, and made the choice to change my last name, but I loved my maiden name. So when I got married I turned my maiden name into my middle name. Say I went from Susie Ann Smith to Susie Smith Jones. I didn’t think about it, but the HR person decided my last name was now Smith Jones. But it wasn’t! I tried to get it corrected, but since everyone knew me before as Susie Smith, they all assumed I was now Susie Smith Jones.

    It took changing jobs to finally be called Susie Jones.

  69. PlainJane*

    #1 is wildly inappropriate, though I’d guess since it was switched quickly and without fuss that it’s possible he just forgot that his background was going to show. (Still not totally sure why it DID show. You can just pause on a slide in PowerPoint, last I knew.

  70. Shaun Hunter*

    The idea of neutrality differs depending who you are. LGBT rainbows are about as welcome to Christians as scripture may be to non-believers and yet it’s commonplace to see them in professional contexts. I saw a video recently where someone at a library was wearing a headscarf supporting Hamas and the management there didn’t take kindly to a request from a member of the republic to remove it. Talk about meditation/mindfulness or new age talk about “trusting the universe” would equally not be neutral and yet you see these things in corporate contexts on the assumption that they’re neutral/harmless or even positive.

    This is how Christianity would have been viewed in the Western world in decades past. A scripture like “the wages of sin is death” might have been taken as a positive reminder to stay on the straight and narrow.

    It’s interesting that you say that you would have been fine with “love thy neighbour” but not “the wages of sin is death” when they both come from the same book as part of the same faith. Shouldn’t you have a principle as to whether scripture is acceptable to be displayed regardless of whether it’s to your taste?

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