disgruntled ex-employee keeps contacting current staff, a toxic friend, and more

by Alison Green on October 10, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Disgruntled ex-employee keeps contacting current employees

We had an employee, Lark, who served as a director in our business for about eight months. She chose to put in her notice and leave the company this summer. During her tenure, she repeatedly told several members of leadership that she was unhappy, looking for another role, and hoped we would just walk her out. She never said anything like this to me or my husband (the owners of the business).

At the end of the first week of her notice period, we told her that she seemed stressed and was dealing with a lot and she could just take the following week as paid vacation time and not return to the office.

After she left, we found out that she was routinely inserting herself into situations that a director should not have been in (such as sorting out daily tasks for entry-level employees) and was constantly telling people that she was the only one who got anything done and she was their “buddy” or “champion.” She never raised any of the issues she was supposedly advocating for in any management meetings.

Now that she has been gone for six weeks, we are hearing that she is regularly contacting current members of the management team to ask how project X is going or if they completed project Y — work-related issues that she has no business being involved in at this point. It is causing team members to mistrust senior leadership or not be honest with us.

She doesn’t work here, so what can we even do? Everything is hearsay right now because the people she’s contacting won’t show us the evidence (one told us before he quit, which is how we know). We need our team to see how toxic it is for any former leader to be inserting themselves into private business matters and undermining the leadership team. But we also know that if they don’t trust us and we tell them to stop sharing this information with people outside the company, it may give them more reason to mistrust us. What do we do with this toxic behavior?

This is bizarre! Why on earth is someone who no longer works there asking people whether they’ve completed specific tasks? It almost sounds like a continuation of the problems when she was there and wanted to be seen as everyone champion, and now that she’s gone she can’t let go of her identity as Extremely Involved … but it’s pretty wild to see that happen when she was only there for eight months, and it’s quite weird that the rest of your staff doesn’t find it odd.

In any case, it’s not strange or suspicious to remind employees that they can’t share internal info outside the company; that’s a very normal policy to have.

The fact that people don’t think it’s weird that a former employee is still inserting herself in this way makes me think that you might have deeper cultural issues than whatever’s up with Lark. The only way to solve this is to lean in hard to good management right now — meaning make sure managers are appropriately engaged with the work their teams are doing, hearing people out and ensuring people have opportunities for meaningful input that you take seriously, being as transparent about possible about decision-making, ensuring people are recognized and rewarded for good work, and otherwise demonstrating through your actions that you’re operating with integrity and openness. That’s the best counter to a toxic former employee like Lark who’s trying to undermine you — but it will take sustained commitment on your end to doing that.

Related:
my toxic former employee is still spreading negativity on my staff

2. When a toxic ex-BFF joins your company

This question is for a very dear friend of mine, Marlie. Marlie works in a very competitive industry. We are both still at the beginning of our careers and are close with a lot of friends from college. Marlie had a close college friend, Amanda, who she bonded with over their shared field and similar backgrounds. After college, they both landed jobs in major cities. They stayed in touch and traveled together, and I joined them on a few of these trips.

They had some personality clashes, but things really started to fall apart about a year ago during a vacation. Some of Amanda’ bad behavior included: not bringing her wallet and making us pay for most things (this happened almost every time we’d go out with her), lying and calling Marlie names behind her back, almost abandoning my friend when she decided to hook up with a guy my friend had expressed interest in (this has happened more than once), calling Marlie desperate and criticizing her taste in men, cursing us both out while drunk, and unfollowing Marlie on social media and leaving her texts on read.

Fast forward, Amanda lost her job a few months ago and has been searching for a new one. Meanwhile, Marlie is thriving in her job and is very happy. A few weeks ago, after a year of no contact, Amanda reached out asking for interview advice, as she’s interviewing for an open position at Marlie’s company. Marlie never responded.

The interview was last week, and there’s a real chance she’ll get the job. Marlie is nervous about the potential of Amanda joining her company and worried she will disrupt the positive work environment. They wouldn’t be on the same team, but she would still see her regularly. Amanda would also likely try to reconnect, especially given the social dynamics at the office. If Amanda gets the job, how should Marlie handle this situation? How can she maintain boundaries with minimal drama and questions from coworkers?

Polite professional distance.

Some behavior is bad enough that it would warrant Marlie talking to the hiring manager and sharing her experience with Amanda, but the stuff on this list doesn’t rise to that level. Amanda sounds like a bad friend and not someone you’d want to hang out with, but it’s all pretty solidly stuff that points to just not renewing the friendship rather than anything more.

If Amanda does get hired, Marlie should be polite but distant. If Amanda makes overtures to grab lunch or otherwise hang out, Marlie should politely decline, saying she’s too busy or so forth. If Amanda pushes the issue, Marlie might need to say, “I want nothing but the best for you, but I don’t think the friendship was good for either of us so I’d rather just be colleagues with different boundaries than we used to have.”

3. Are these interview red flags?

I’ve been interviewing for a new job for the past two months. I thought I had gone through the final round (with the head of HR and the managing director) and then was told last minute that there was one more interview with a senior member of the team, who sits across the country from where this position is based.

As soon as we got through the pleasantries, she proceeded to tell me that they had to fire the last person in the role, their name, the dates of their tenure, and the fact that they failed multiple performance improvement plans before they were let go. We work in a niche and small field. While I don’t happen to know this person who was fired, I very well could.

I’ve never experienced anything like this before, and it is giving me very serious pause about the role. Is this a major red flag? There were other parts of the conversation that were alarming to me, namely, that this person relayed very different information about the annual sales targets (she said they were three times what I had been told by HR), bragged about leaving for the office at 5 am in the morning during the summer months, and gave me conflicting information about the in-office expectations. More seriously, a job can be the wrong fit for any number of reasons, especially at this phase of my career and I would hate to think that if I decided to move on in a year or two, I would be badmouthed all over town about it.

Run. This is going to be a clusterfudge.

If it were just the discrepancy in the sales targets, I wouldn’t be so worried (as long as the numbers sounded reasonable to you) because HR often doesn’t have the nitty-gritty info about a job in the way a manager will. But all the rest of this = huge red flags.

4. My manager gave me her personal money for a work item I bought

My company has a $300 cost limit for a certain type of equipment, but the internal website said the limit could be overruled by higher management approval. My equipment was failing, and the cost for a new one of the exact same brand, specifications, etc. was about $315. My manager approved the purchase, as did her manager, so I purchased the equipment. My reimbursement request was rejected for going over the $300 limit. When my manager and her manager got involved, they were told by the expenses team that despite what the website said, there was in fact no way to go over the cost limit.

In the end, I was reimbursed $300 by the company, and my manager insisted on Venmo’ing the remaining $15 from her personal account, which she was not reimbursed for. I felt really uncomfortable taking her personal money when it was our company that caused the error, but she insisted. The expenses team also promised to update the website to make it more accurate. How should this have been handled?

The company should have covered the full $315 because it had been approved by your management in accordance with their written policies. They can update the policy, sure, but your manager shouldn’t lose her own money because a written policy was inaccurate. (And really, $15? That’s a de minimis amount for your company to eat in the interests of staff morale.)

Don’t feel weird about taking your manager’s $15, though; I’m sure she would have felt far worse if you were the one out the money because of what happened and she probably felt partially responsible. I would have wanted to cover it myself too.

5. Starburst curation

My office has a communal candy dish that includes the little two-packs of Starbursts. A coworker has taken to opening these packets, eating only the Starburst flavors they like (pink and orange), and leaving the remaining Starburst squares (red and yellow) behind for others. On the one hand, this strikes me as absolutely unhinged behavior. On the other hand, this unhinged behavior means I also have a whole slew of red Starbursts (my favorite) at my disposal, without even having to gamble for them. Am I obligated to say anything about this behavior, for the greater good? Or, with two Starburst-happy employees in balance, am I in the clear to continue letting crime pay?

I’m not sure there’s anything unhinged happening here! If your coworker is opening all the packages and removing the pink and orange Starbursts so there are none for anyone else, then yes, this is boorish behavior. But if they’re just taking a reasonable amount of candy and putting back the individually wrapped ones they don’t like so someone else can have them, this is what top minds consider a classic win/win.

Either way, you are under no obligation to speak up and may continue enjoying the red cast-offs without qualms.

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{ 60 comments }

{ 60 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Dahlia*

    Normally I’m a “just take your leftovers, no one wants your half-touched doughnut” type person, but this seems reasonable! They’re individually wrapped and they would just be thrown away. It’s no different from just taking the colours they like if there was a big bag of them instead of two packs.

    All good!

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  2. RCB*

    As a red Starburst lover I’d be THRILLED that someone was leaving the reds behind for me, and that I didn’t have to open the packs to find them. I’ll also confuse to being the one who did this in the office, but I also paid for the candy so I figured I could rightfully pick out my favorite colors and leave the rest behind (which happened to be the favorite colors of others, so it’s a win for everyone).

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      2. Leigh*

        Red and yellow are the best flavours by far. Sounds lucky to me. It’s no worse than them reaching into a bowl of mixed flavours and only taking the (individually wrapped) ones they like.

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  4. Robert Kreisle*

    You control the company email. You can block emails from her address. There are ways to get around this but she might not figure out her emails are not being delivered.

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    1. Bilateralrope*

      It might be better to redirect those emails, or just a copy of them. That way you have a record of them if her behaviour escalates enough to get lawyers involved.

      Personally I’d be monitoring any emails sent to or from her address without blocking them. If staff ignore the instruction to stop talking about work with someone who no longer works there, I’d want to know. Block them and staff will seek workarounds.

      Staff should already know that work emails are not private.

      Reply ↓
  5. MK*

    #1, I don’t understand why a former employee wanting to know what is happening in her former company is causing the rest of the staff to mistrust management. Add to that the fact that she had only been there for 8 months, so not a long-time trusted colleague, and I have to wonder if the owners are using her as a scapegoat for their problems. She sounds toxic, but in anynwell-run company she shouldn’t be able to cause problems.

    Reply ↓
    1. Myrin*

      I didn’t quite follow that, either, but since OP says Lark presented herself as an advocat and a champion for the oppressed masses, I assume she doesn’t just ask how a project is going but rather says something like “You’re still only at the ‘painting the teapots’ stage? Like I’ve been saying, they’ve been burdening you with way too many teapots, of course you can’t get the whole batch done faster than that. In my new company, we’d only have to work on half that amount in the same time; clearly OP doesn’t know what she’s talking about and expecting of you” or somesuch.

      It’s still bizarre that apparently none of the workers are finding this inappropriate or even just plain weird (if that is indeed what’s happening and OP isn’t just misjudging that).

      Reply ↓
      1. Em*

        My manager was recently laid off. We are a year+ into a pathetic agile transformation that’s running the team productivity into the ground, and devs are quitting left and right, we have HUGE problems with under-performing product owners. I’m in a group chat where my manager is still getting updates, people are still asking his opinion, hoping he will somehow return in a consulting role, etc. In my experience, it’s a not a good sign when current employees are still engaging about work with a former leader to this degree… they probably aren’t getting support internally OR they have so many complaints they can’t help but take the opportunity to moan.

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        1. Agent Diane*

          I noticed that the owners became aware Lark was still meddling when another employee quit. That rang a faint alarm bell of “all is not well”.

          Obviously that doesn’t excuse Lark’s behaviour but it does suggest the owners need to explore what problems their employees have that aren’t being addressed.

          Reply ↓
  6. Resentful Oreos*

    LW5: I don’t think that what the Starburst Fusspot is doing rises nearly to the level of “unhinged.” Maybe if Fusspot licked all the red Starbursts before putting them back, yes. But just opening the packages and picking out only the flavors they want is just rude and juvenile, nothing worse. I don’t think this is a hill, or even a mound of dirt, worth dying on. Go ahead and eat all the leftover red Starbursts, and enjoy! (Also be glad you have coworkers who don’t swoop in to pick the good candy and leave only Circus Peanuts for everyone else!)

    Reply ↓
    1. Dahlia*

      I don’t even think it’s “rude and juvenile”. If taking 2 packets of starbursts to eat is acceptable, so is taking 2 packets of starbursts, opening them, and taking the flavours you like. Less wasteful, even, than throwing them out.

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    2. Roland*

      How is this rude, juvenile, or fusspot behavior? They know there will be someone happy to eat the reds, OP is literally one of them. It’s so weird to insult this coworker while literally reaping the benefit in the exact way they intended.

      Reply ↓
  7. Goddess*

    I threw an ink pad (old school) at a girl once for eating my starbusts. Sorry, not sorry, for having boundaries. People will do anything in an office if you let them.

    Reply ↓
    2. Brittany Dittany*

      It’s a communal candy jar though. Someone is taking a reasonable amount of communal candy. There is literally zero problem here.

      Also, please don’t throw things at people at work in anger. Or really in any other emotion beyond “hey, toss me that thing, would ya?” Throwing things in anger isn’t setting boundaries — it’s abusive.

      Reply ↓
  8. Nodramalama*

    LW2 I agree with Alison’s advice. Marlie should be professional and polite. Raising any of this stuff has a high likelihood of looking petty considering you’re kind of just describing shitty friend behaviour. And she certainly wouldn’t want to get into a situation where it gets back to Amanda and ends up religitiating the friendship which I suspect will look good for no one.

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  9. Keyboard Cowboy*

    LW5, I’m frankly just stunned that anybody would eat the orange Starbursts on purpose. It takes all sorts, I suppose.

    Reply ↓
    1. HBJ*

      I have never understood the obsession over red and pink starburst. I will eat pink, but I personally think the citrus ones, orange and yellow, are best. I won’t eat any candy that’s fake cherry flavored. I find them so disgusting.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jessica*

        You are correct! But this is why diversity in the workforce is so important. If your whole team is made up of the right-minded people who know orange and yellow are the good flavors, you’ll have waste and starburst wars. But the freaks who like pink and red can also be competent and valuable workers, and if you have some of them in your office, everyone can enjoy the starburst synergy.

        Reply ↓
        1. Airy*

          Jack Sprat could eat no fat,
          His wife could eat no lean.
          And so between them both, you see,
          They licked the platter clean.
          (English nursery rhyme, Roud Folk Song Index number 19479)

          Someone who’ll eat what you don’t like and leave what you do is an acquaintance to be cultivated (see also: if a sandwich comes with a pickle).

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      3. Dhaskoi*

        This is the correct take.

        Lemon: Excellent
        Strawberry: Decent
        Orange: Acceptable
        Cherry: MotherofallthingsunholywhatthehelldidIjustputinmymouthspititoutSPITITOUTNOW!

        Reply ↓
    2. Sleve*

      That’s how I feel about the red. They taste like medicine to me. I will take some liquorice allsorts, though, if you’re offering!

      Reply ↓
    3. Audrey Puffins*

      I’m just wondering what happened to green and purple, is it just in the country where LW is that they don’t exist or have they been universally wiped out? Green was always my number one

      Reply ↓
      1. Em*

        I think you’re referring to a different flavor of starbursts, like the “tropical” version. Red, orange, yellow, pink is the classic and original starburst offering. Very important stuff, I know lol

        Reply ↓
  10. Dark Macadamia*

    The most unhinged thing in #5 is that they’re putting the little trick or treat two-packs in a bowl instead of just getting the giant bag of loose individual ones to begin with, lol.

    And now I really want some starbursts, but just the pink and yellow ones :)

    Reply ↓
  12. Azure Jane Lunatic*

    Those “just the pink and red” bags make me sad, because I love red the least and I find pink too sweet without yellow around. If there was someone around to take my unwanted starbursts away I would be delighted.

    Reply ↓
  13. Dhaskoi*

    LW3: If they’ll do it to someone else, they’ll do it to you. And I’m pretty sure the information they gave you about the previous person in that role is meant to be confidential.

    LW5: I am deeply, deeply amused, that every single person commenting on this uses the Starburst colours as their flavour descriptions.

    Reply ↓
  14. Catagorical*

    This passionate yet polite, earnest discussion on the merits of various starbursts flavors is just the balm for my news-weary heart. Thank you!

    Reply ↓
    1. Emmy Noether*

      I had to google what they are, since the discussion today seems to be set to center around them.

      If they are what I think they are (like Maoam), then I’m team red, but occasionally in the mood for a yellow or orange.

      Reply ↓
    1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      Green sweets generally are the best ones. Our corner shop has proper pick-n-mix and sometimes I will indulge myself with a “green only” bag. Truly there is no greater pleasure available for under £1.

      Reply ↓
    2. bamcheeks*

      THANK YOU I was scrolling down looking or this comment.

      Handily, I’ve always preferred the citrus flavours. Most people got for the blackcurrant and strawberry, so there is much less competition for like and lemon.

      (Also they’re Opal Fruits.)

      Reply ↓
    3. Nocturna*

      In the US, Starbursts are only available (at least in the standard packs) in red (cherry), yellow (lemon), orange (orange), and pink (strawberry). I suspect LW5 is US-based.

      Reply ↓
  16. Beth**

    Starburst colours are different here in the UK, but I once had a boss who liked some of them but not others. He would buy packs near daily and leave the unloved colours for his team. I don’t like the purple ones either (=blackcurrant, which is a taste I have never developed) but I ate my share of the greens. #teamcitrusstarburst

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    1. Varthema*

      As a US American who moved to Ireland, the near disappearance of cherry flavors and the ubiquitousness of blackcurrant is probably the worst bit of culture shock. ;) Good thing there are sour cherries in the cinema to comfort me!

      Reply ↓
  17. The Prettiest Curse*

    Hmm, don’t think I’ve ever had a purple Starburst, but my current office doesn’t have them available. I’m old enough to remember an era when Starburst were called Opal Fruits in the UK. Somehow I found that brand name way more evocative. Same thing with Marathon instead of Snickers!

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    4. MendraMarie*

      You can sometimes find “retro” packaging labelled Opal Fruits! And I have heard that there will be a similarly retro Marathon run shortly.

      Reply ↓
  18. r..*

    LW4,

    First, your companies handling of the situation is inane. 15 bucks is in no way worth the impacts on employee morale, changing policy without communicating the change is a no-no, and an even bigger no-no for anything related to money. Additionally, your company spent many times more than 15 bucks on this whole bruhaha.

    That being said, take the 15 bucks your manager offered and don’t feel weird about it. Were I your manager I would in no way accept you having to eat those 15 bucks, even if I had to cover them myself.

    Additionally, you don’t know what happens behind the scenes.

    Were I your manager I’d be … slightly annoyed about how this whole thing went down, not because of 15 bucks but because of process issues that frankly need fixing, so that’d go onto my todo list.

    There’s also the equipment angle: Supposedly the item of that brand and specification was bought because it best fits the companies need for that equipment; if spending policies in combination with inflation no longer allows for that item to be purchased that is a discussion that needs to be had, because at the end of the day the company will need to either change what “best fit for the companies needs” means for this equipment, or adjust the cost limit for inflation. This smells of penny-wise, pound-foolish; so that’d also be a thing that goes onto my list.

    Your manager may or may not share this, but if they do, and if they act, that’s something that’ll likely happen behind the scenes. Your manager also is probably in position to recoup expenses like this later on through a different way, without your knowledge.

    Reply ↓
  19. Viette*

    LW2 – I think “toxic” is potentially giving Amanda too much power here. I guess the word “toxic” has gotten pretty watered-down in the usage of the times, but I don’t think this is some disaster waiting to happen.

    Don’t get me wrong, Amanda sounds awful, but she wasn’t life- or psyche-destroying so much as rude, petty, selfish, and mean. The list of her (self-centered, freeloading) crimes wraps up with “unfollowing Marlie on social media and leaving her texts on read” which is classic miserable bad friend stuff.

    She was a problem, but she was a problem Marlie could, and did, solve by stopping hanging out with her. The solution is just to stay not being friends with her anymore.

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    1. Roland*

      I felt the same way. People can just kinda suck as a friend, I don’t think it means she’ll be a coworker from hell.

      Reply ↓
  20. No Country for Old Men*

    I remember a time when Starbursts were called Opal Fruits, Snickers were called Marathons, and women were called out for behaving badly.

    Reply ↓

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