should employees use sick time for doctor’s appointments?

by Alison Green on January 8, 2025

A reader writes:

As a relatively new manager, I’m wondering about how to navigate sick time. Background: We’re 100% remote. I have weekly standing meetings with employees; apart from that, I don’t require details on what they’re doing through the day.

When I know someone is at a doctor’s appointment for a few hours, is it appropriate to ask them to use sick time? They didn’t originally document it as such, and I’m sure made up their work in other ways, but I’m struggling to find the balance between flexibility in the current situation, and enforcing workplace rules.

I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • Asking coworkers to go to vegetarian-friendly restaurants on business trips
  • What do I do when I inadvertently pass on bad info from a coworker?
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{ 205 comments }

{ 205 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. CityMouse*

    I’m a teleworker on a flex schedule and I have the option to either use sick leave or flex around appointments.

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    1. AnotherOne*

      my office unofficially allows us to “pop out” for an hour when we’re WFH for doctor appointments. i assume because all of our supervisors would rather we be gone for an hour v. 4 hours.

      one of my friends has a job that allows the same thing and it has been a game changer for him. he has never been healthier- physically or mentally. which means he’s been a better employee for them at essentially no add’l cost. if he has to leave for a couple of hours for an appointment- he just has to make up the work later because the important thing is the work. (that job has really been an example of the difference a great manager can make.)

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      1. AnotherOne*

        i should be clear in both mine and my friend’s offices, we aren’t using sick time. we’re allowed to essentially take the time as long as the work gets done.

        my office does have separate time specifically for doctor appointments but unless it’s going to take several hours or i’ve booked several appointments in one day, i rarely use it. (i did use a lot of it last year when i had a terminally ill family member, as i could use it for their appointments.)

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      2. Periwinkle*

        I’m mostly WFH but have an office not too far away I can go to. My employer has a health clinic on site which I know isn’t super common, but it’s an amazing perk. We do not have to use sick time or make up the time when going to appointments there. We do use sick time or Flex Time with other appointments though.

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    2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      yeah we have an explicit “appointments of less than 4 hours – you can use either medical leave or flex the time within the same work week.” Appointments longer than 4 hours = you have to use medical leave.

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      1. Elizabeth West*

        I’m glad you mentioned longer appointments — I need to ask about this.

        My last three jobs have been pretty flexible (hourly). Most of the time, I just work through lunch or add on a half-hour for a couple of days to make up the time. I don’t like to use sick/PTO time for appointments in case I need it.

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      2. LadyMTL*

        My office doesn’t have it as an explicit rule but it’s the same here – if our absence is only for a few hours (generally 2-3 max) we can just make up the time during the rest of the week. Any longer than that and we’re expected to use a sick day / half a sick day.

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      3. hobbittoes*

        My team is the same way! Sometimes I’ll take a half day sick time just because I know the travel to and from the doctor will be time intensive, or that I might need to do labs or something after and I like to know I’ll have time for that, but if I’m going to be gone less than four hours, I can just flex my time rather than taking random increments of sick time.

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    3. Quinalla*

      Exempt worker here, in office before COVID, not 100% WFH. We were always allowed to flex our time in the same week for appointments (for us or kids/family/pets, for a long lunch, etc.). Most of us flex our time for daycare/school drop off/pickups or to walk dogs and so on now too since everyone is at least hybrid with the option to fully WFH. If folks are exempt, to me this is how it should work for anything that is an hour or less and honestly I’d say even 2 hours is fine. My last supervisor even told me to never use PTO/sick time if I had at least 40 hours in the week, to me that seemed over the top if I was sick or taking off at least a half a day, so we are VERY flexible :)

      Reply ↓
    1. mango chiffon*

      Whoops pressed submit too early! It is allowed to be used for sick time and I often used it when I was non-exempt since I rarely got sick enough to miss work. Now that I am exempt, I often just flex my time if I have a short appointment as sick time needs to be taken in half day chunks. If I have a series of appointments, I might take sick time off.

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    2. Pay no attention...*

      Same. And not just medical appointments. I can use “planned sick time” for a dental appointment, optometry appointment, etc. and also for a family member’s appointments too if I’m the one taking them.

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    3. doreen*

      I don’t think the question is whether it’s appropriate to use sick time for medical appointments. I think the question is whether it’s appropriate to ask/require people to use sick time ( or PTO) for medical appointments rather than allowing them to make up the time.

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      1. Mockingjay*

        In my former life as a supervisor, this question came up a lot. We didn’t get a lot of sick leave (vacation was also barely adequate), so flex time – “make up the hours” was frequently requested. Granting it came down to the individual employee.

        We were professional exempt and billed hours to a government contract, so we had to track hours carefully. As long as the makeup hours were within the pay period, it was fine and most of the team did great. I had a couple employees who liked to make up time on the following weekend, but the pay period ended on Friday. I had quite a few difficult conversations with them explaining that the unbalanced hours affected billing and would show up in an audit. I finally had to ban one employee from the flex practice – she had to use sick or vacation leave only.

        I would say that the majority of employees do fine with making up hours in lieu of charging leave. I think it’s like any other managerial judgement – empower your employees to manage their time and tasks while still adhering to corporate policies, and address issues individually as those arise.

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    4. Person from the Resume*

      I agree. We cannot flex but get generous sick time so I always use sick leave for appointments.

      The question seems to be that these folks are flexing. If flexing is allowed and they are truly getting their necessary work done, it should be allowed.

      I personally very much prefer to take time off and not have to make it up. Luckily my organizations policy supports that fully.

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    5. Anon for this*

      Most of the organizations I’ve worked at have allowed sick time for appointments. The org I’m in now does not, which is why it’s going to be one of the proposals for our contract negotiation starting next month.

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    6. Cmdrshprd*

      I don’t think the question is “is it appropriate to use sick time for appointments.” is they aren’t actually sick so it’s shouldn’t count as sick time.

      But rather, OP is asking should they as a manager ask/require people to use/burn their sick time for a medical appointment of 1 to 2 hours.

      Reply ↓
    7. WillowSunstar*

      Mine too, we have a new sick and safe time law in the state I live in. Since PTO we have to take in 4 or 8 our increments, but the sick and safe time is more flexible, it’s encouraged to use that up first. Also PTO can get paid out, but sick and safe time can’t.

      Reply ↓
  3. A Book about Metals*

    My wife’s a vegetarian and swears by the McDonald’s Filet-o-Fish (she often orders two), so maybe that’s an option next time they stop for fast food.

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      1. Venus*

        So true! I know sometimes we might question whether or not some fast food labels are valid (I have memories of cheez whiz not being real cheese) yet a search for ingredients confirms that there’s definitely fish as a primary ingredient.

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        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          Cheez whiz does use dairy ingredients – real cheese might be debatable from a pedantic point of view, but it’s dairy.

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          1. Spooky Spiders*

            Cheez-whiz (and Velveeta and kraft singles) are “cheese products” — in order to legally be called cheese (in the US) it has to contain 51% cheese.

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            1. Lenora Rose*

              But they’re generally made from whey, a milk product that is extracted during the cheese-making process. They’re not cheese; they are dairy.

              Reply ↓
              1. Ari Flynn*

                Wait, does that mean ricotta isn’t cheese either? Ricotta is made from the whey that’s left over from more traditional cheeses.

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      3. WillowSunstar*

        Yep, I remember commenting on this in the other dietary thread. Fish is technically pescatarian, but it is considered an animal product in the same grouping as meat by most vegetarians.

        Reply ↓
          1. Anon for this*

            Literally in other cultures it isn’t. It’s recognized as being from an animal but isn’t considered meat in the same way vegetarians view meat. Ask any vegetarian who has travelled and asked for something without meat. Almost everyone has probably heard “this isn’t meat, it’s fish/chicken/etc.” It’s why in Catholicism even today fish is served on Fridays.

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            1. Raktajino*

              A similar blurry-to-opinion line exists for eggs. I know vegetarians who avoid eggs but are okay with animal products such as wool, honey, or milk. And then there are people who think of eggs as dairy because it’s often in US grocery stores in or near the dairy section!

              Tldr everyone has their own definition of their dietary label so when in doubt, ask

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    2. Tio*

      Eating fish is generally considered pescatarian, not vegetarian, as fish are animals. Your wife is free to define her vegetarianism however she’d like, but this option would not work for most other vegetarians.

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      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        As a lacto-ovo vegetarian, I would argue that you should be as accurate as possible when discussing your diet. It keeps those of us who practice a stricter form of vegetarianism from being served food we can’t eat.

        Reply ↓
        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          And avoids miscommunication about your own restrictions. Clarity can be really important, especially once you’re talking about things that make you sick (which meat and fish often can do to vegetarian’s whose systems aren’t used to it).

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        2. Ess Ess*

          Agreed. I once went to a restaurant that advertised that they did a vegetarian buffet one day a week. So I took my vegetarian friend and we discovered that every single “vegetarian” dish on the buffet had chicken in it.

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          1. Raktajino*

            I remember a mild scandal years and years ago when food testing kits became more popular and available: several vegan restaurants or cheese brands had been using cheese with non-vegan casein. The cheese melted and stretched like dairy cheese because it had dairy casein in it.

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    3. mlem*

      Vegetarians typically don’t eat fish (though clearly some fish-eaters call themselves vegetarians). Fish-eaters more commonly use the term “pescatarian”.

      Reply ↓
      1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

        I had a pescatarian coworker at one point who would often self-describe as vegetarian when asked about dietary restrictions. She explained that most people understood what vegetarian meant so it was easier than trying to explain (a) what ‘pescatarian’ meant and (b) why fish and not [fill in the blank meat].

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        2. RabbitRabbit*

          Yeah, I’m a vegetarian-turned-pescatarian and I’ll frequently default to just calling myself a ‘vegetarian’ if I’m not looking for fish. But I definitely wouldn’t offer that as an option to someone describing themselves as a vegetarian.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            Same here. Since a lot of people aren’t familiar with “pescatarian”, I often self-describe as “fishy vegetarian”. For some reason this construction (vegetarian diet + seafood) works pretty well.

            In contrast, if I tell someone I don’t eat red meat or poultry, many people either can’t think of anything that I could eat… or else offer me chicken. It’s some sort of fascinating processing glitch.

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        3. kalli*

          I had a coworker who was like ‘vegetarian except for salmon, dairy, eggs, butter, cheese’ and the list went on.

          This was 100% a passive aggressive move so she could be more special than people who had to explain what allergies mean, while she criticised those people for only having steamed vegetables after she picked the restaurant.

          The simplest way is to pick something that has functional options or the ability to customise – Subway kind of thing over McDonalds kind of thing. Then everyone can pick what they like, the sandwich artists or whatever they’re called in that chain can change their gloves between orders, and everyone’s pretty much able to eat something without having to use words to mean something they don’t mean to get halfway to what they meant, without making anyone else feel bad/harassed/targeted/left out or simply just starving.

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          1. Lenora Rose*

            Ovo-lacto pescatarian is a nice short version so she doesn’t have to go down the list, although if she isn’t aware that dairy already covers butter and cheese, it might not help.

            Reply ↓
          2. WillowSunstar*

            Subway is a great travel option for various diets. You can also, I believe, still get the sandwiches as a salad, so it’s good for those avoiding carbs.

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          3. amoeba*

            Vegetarians generally eat dairy, anyway, so she’d just be a run-of-the-mill pescetarian with that? If you avoid all animal products, you’re vegan!

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        4. callmeheavenly*

          in the parking lot where I met up with my aunt for the first time in a few years to pick out prayer cards for my freshly deceased mother’s funeral, she *immediately* started in with “are you still vegetarian!? why don’t you eat fish!?” so there is no winning, ever.

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    4. A Book about Metals*

      Pescatarian is the more accurate word, but as you probably know many fish eating folks still say vegetarian if they’ve been doing this long enough that they started before pescatarian became a well known term

      Reply ↓
      1. Daisy-dog*

        I worked at a residential healthcare facility that provided lunch to employees. I told our chef that I was pescatarian and she looked confused and asked if I made up the term. This was in 2017. Now she was not the brightest bulb, but she was a ~chef~.

        Reply ↓
      2. Drago Cucina*

        With Lent usually hitting during a work travel time for me, it’s often easier to say I’m eating vegetarian on Fridays. Broccoli-cheddar soup and French Onion soups are generally not vegetarian.

        I don’t eat fast-food fish sandwiches, but my husband loves them. McDonald’s French fries in the US are an issue for some since they are cooked with beef oil. I’m still having an internal debate about that one.

        There are often “hidden” meats. For a non-fast food meal I often default to asking to go to someplace I can get spaghetti aglio e olio. I was heart broken when 24 years ago Wendy’s stopped making their vegetarian pita sandwiches. It was a solid fast-food choice.

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        1. Tio*

          Google says that they stopped cooking it directly in beef fat in the 90s, but add beef flavoring to the fries as well as milk products, and so generally are not considered vegetarian or vegan.

          This honestly shocked me!

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          1. Rainy*

            The beef flavoring contains milk byproducts but not actual beef, from what I can tell. So it’s not vegan but it should be fine for people who are lacto-ovo.

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            1. Tio*

              That seems to what I’m reading as well, although they still call it “natural beef flavor.” I just had no idea they did that at all!

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              1. Rainy*

                Depends on the milk allergy :) I can eat McDonald’s fries just fine, and I have an anaphylactic allergy to one of the proteins in cow’s milk.

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            3. Arrietty*

              If it’s made of something extracted from dead animals, it is not vegetarian.

              If it’s made of something from any animal, dead or alive, it’s not vegan.

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          2. Nonprofit ED*

            The fries have never tasted the same since they changed the oil they originally used. I get why they did it but I definitely miss the original version. I guess the plus side was eating less at McDonalds!

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      2. Rainy*

        Not true anymore. The fries did use tallow for flavoring until 1990, but at this point there’s no tallow in McDonald’s french fries and hasn’t been for 35 years. The fryers at McDonald’s are full of vegetable oil. Now, the chicken and fish patties do go into the fryer and there usually isn’t a dedicated fryer for those products, so if you’re worried about cross-contamination that’s one thing. But it is not the case that McDonald’s fries contain tallow.

        Reply ↓
        2. Glen*

          The McDonald’s I work at, in regional Australia, absolutely has a separate fryer for the fries/hash browns, so it varies.

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    7. L.H. Puttgrass*

      Not only is fish not vegetarian, but last I looked, McDonald’s has a particularly unfriendly menu for vegetarians. Are their fries still cooked in beef tallow?

      Burger King is my go-to fast food when I’m on the road and need to eat. They’ve had a veggie burger of one sort or another for years now.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rainy*

        Their fries have not been cooked in beef tallow blend since 1985, and the fry flavoring has not included tallow since 1990.

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        1. sb51*

          The fries in the US do still include “natural beef flavoring”, they’re just open about it rather than hiding it now. (They do not include the flavoring in some countries.)

          Reply ↓
          2. amoeba*

            Yeaaaah, that’s the thing with the definition of “natural” – it needs to be produced *somewhere* in nature, not by the actual same thing it tastes of. Even if it’s produced by microorganisms – natural! (Which is honestly fine with me, I work in that industry – but it’s definitely confusing, see case in point.)

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        2. L.H. Puttgrass*

          After a bit of web searching, I see that the fries are no longer cooked in beef tallow but have “natural beef flavoring”—which doesn’t have beef in it (but does have use milk as a “starting ingredient,” so still isn’t vegan).

          Kind of a moot point, though, since without a vegetarian protein on the menu the chances of me ending up in a McDonald’s are very, very low.

          IIRC, at one point McDonald’s did look into adding an Impossible Burger to the menu. The Impossible people said there was no way they could supply what McDonald’s would need, so it didn’t happen.

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      2. Bunny Girl*

        Vegetarian and can confirm – the BK Impossible Whopper is quite good! It is grilled on the same surface as the regular burgers though, so depending on how strict you are, that’s something to keep in mind.

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        1. L.H. Puttgrass*

          From what I can find online, it looks like BK introduced the BK Veggie in 2002. They switched to Impossible a few years ago, but that’s 20+ years of being able to rely on BK for veggie burgers.

          Now, even White Castle has Impossible Burgers. But in 2002, it was really something for a fast food chain to have a veggie burger on the standard menu.

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          1. kalli*

            Where I am the BK plant-based options have dairy in the other ingredients, so it isn’t necessarily suitable for everyone. Which is another tick in the ‘OP research and find something they can definitely eat at’ column instead of the ‘this chain has stuff’ suggestions column.

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          2. Polly Hedron*

            Thanks! I had not known about Burger King’s Impossible Burgers, I am eating one right now, and it’s delicious!

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        2. Nina*

          In New Zealand (unsure about USA) they do an Impossible whopper, and a ‘salad burger’ (onion rings, hash brown bites, veggies) and also do an Impossible chicken burger which is really shockingly good both in its own right and as a chicken substitute.

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      4. Bee*

        I used to eat very little meat and particularly did not want fast food meat, so at McDonald’s I would get fries and the world’s saddest salad – it’s not great! Personally I look out for a Panera if I don’t have time to research, but those are sparser on the ground.

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      5. amoeba*

        Huh, does McDonalds in the US really not have a vegetarian burger at all? It’s been for the menu for ages here in Europe – I knew the selection was different, but I had no idea it was *that* different! (The veggie nuggets are apparently quite good…)

        Burger King actually has a huge selection here nowadays, for a bit they even made a few franchises fully vegetarian (like, as a PR thing – so, for like a week or so, all the burgers there were non-meat. I think they still have vegetarian versions of most of their products on the menu now, though!)

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        1. amoeba*

          Oh, sorry, no veggie nuggets, actually, guess that was BK – but they do have five different burgers and a veggie Caesar’s salad.

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        3. Raktajino*

          Looks like they’re trialing a Beyond Burger in TX and CA: mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/mcplant-locations.html

          CA makes sense, the choice of TX is interesting! (Not a single one is in Austin, the Portland of Texas, btw) I guess if you can sell it in beef country you can sell it elsewhere.

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    8. Daisy-dog*

      For me, Taco Bell is hands down the best option for vegetarian fast food. There is an entire category of their menu. I like to get the potato tacos and a cheesy roll-up (for $3 total), but they also have vegetarian black beans that can be subbed for meat on everything on the menu. I know others often scoff at Taco Bell as being inferior fast food, but it is often close to other fast food if not a combo with something like KFC.

      Wendy’s has a baked potato. Pair it with a salad (without the meat) and it’s a good lunch.

      The mac & cheese at Popeye’s is next level good. I’m also pescatarian, so I get that with the popcorn shrimp. But I would be fine (infrequently) to just get the mac & cheese and some biscuits. There is also cole slaw, but I’m not a fan. (The red beans & rice has meat.)

      Subway always hits for me. The person at my local Subway always changes his gloves for me when I order the veggie sandwich.

      Sonic has a grilled cheese. I add onions & pickles and get cheesy tots on the side.

      I’m also accepting of being 98% pescatarian. I will still not eat meat, but a small amount of meat products (lard in tortillas, chicken broth in rice, etc.) when it’s a situation without other choices (because I’m with a group or short on time). My positive impact is still there! And it’s small enough that my taste buds/stomach are unaffected.

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        1. Daisy-dog*

          I haven’t actually been to Culver’s, but see there is one not far from me. Might need to try it as it’s close to a good hiking area.

          Though a lot of places can manage a grilled cheese even if it’s not on the menu. I also get the secret menu one from In-n-Out Burger. (Whataburger does it with Texas toast.)

          Also a pro of being in the South is that a lot of mom-and-pop stops have good pimento cheese sandwiches. I will take any and all cheese sandwiches.

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        2. Bibliothecarial*

          Culver’s has a delicious veggie burger too. I hate y’all for making me think about it while I’m stuck at work :)

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      2. Drago Cucina*

        I forgot to mention Taco Bell’s bean burrito in my post. It’s one of my go-to Lenten options. Actually, I’ll get it many times during the year. Hold the onions please.

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      3. NotAnotherManager!*

        Taco Bell is inferior fast food? I’d rather eat there than McDonald’s any day of the week.

        (I am still mad about the enchirito, though. Mine won’t even make it off menu anymore, even though they have all the components right. there.)

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        2. Lucifer*

          The only time Taco Bell is appropriate: when it is between 1 and 3 AM and you are on your way home from the bar and need something to soak up the booze in your system STAT. I will not be taking questions on this.

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      4. The Body Is Round*

        Seven-layer burritos were the most available meatless fast food when I was a vegetarian youth and I still have a soft spot for them.

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      1. A Book about Metals*

        It isn’t! Of course I realize vegetarians don’t eat fish, but there are a decent number of pescs who refer to themselves as vegetarians so I was using that shorthand. I didn’t think it would lead to 50+ comments :)

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    11. fertilized_or_unfertilized*

      I once heard someone define it as “I don’t eat anything that had a mother or a face.” Still not sure to this day if that meant eggs were acceptable.

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  4. Ebby*

    this is so interesting. as a federal employee i have to take leave for everything unless it’s during my flex hours when I can leave early and come in earlier the next day…appointments, actual illness, and what have you.

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    2. prefer my pets*

      From my nearly 30 yrs as a fed in many different offices/agencies, it seems like every office & agency has a slightly different policy on this.
      I’ve been on maxi-flex since it was introduced and, depending on the supervisor/office I’ve experienced:
      -NPS- flexing is in theory only, even 5 min late because of snow needs a phone call to supervisor and shifting hours was never allowed (unless you were the Supe’s favorite white male, in which case no rules applied to anything, including sexual harassment)
      -FWS, BLM, & FS- depending on office, flexing is either completely normal & encouraged because frankly we’re all so overwhelmed with work they’d rather you flex than take leave so we don’t get farther behind OR flexing is totally fine as long as you are still in the office during core hours (10-2 Tues-Thurs for most). Some supervisors wanted advance notice, others only want your calendar kept up-to-date and shared, others had a threshold of wanting notice if it was going to be more than a hour or two but didn’t care otherwise.

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    3. Drago Cucina*

      Yeah, it gets quirky. My quick trip for blood work is okay. My quarterly check-in with the nurse practitioner is not.

      Fortunately I’m still working off travel comp time from last year.

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    4. H3llifIknow*

      Hah as a contractor to the federal govt, I have to laugh. Our civilians are always disappearing for vague appointments, “liberal leave” family days, etc… But yet at the end of the year every single one of them has 3-4 weeks of “Use or Lose” magically still available.

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  5. Union nerd*

    I work for a large employer and we can either make up the time if it’s an hour or two or take sick leave. We have special sick leave for maintenance appointments (dental cleanings, checkups) and follow-ups are taken as regular sick leave.

    Reply ↓
  6. Rainy*

    Re Q3–oddly adversarial is right, and if I were LW3, I think I’d be asking myself if it’s *my* odd adversarialness or if it’s a general odd adversarialness and try to figure out why I’m taking it so personally. It could be that the culture is very blame-y and toxic, it could be that I’m stressed and taking things too seriously, it could be any one of a number of things, but I think for LW3’s own mental well-being it would be good to figure out where this is coming from so they can disconnect from it as much as possible.

    I say this because the examples given are so incredibly nothing that if LW3 feels like someone is “lying to their face” about expected downtime that didn’t materialize or whatever, this is a symptom of something a lot bigger and figuring out what that is will probably help them get some perspective and react in ways that aren’t heading toward unprofessional.

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    1. Tio*

      Yeah, this is definitely an adversarial approach on both sides. Especially since the LW says that the previous issues have been minor details – this seems like a bit of an overreaction from everyone. I would say, if it’s the same person always giving you bad information, maybe keep that in mind, but if not… This doesn’t really rise to lying and being angry.

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    2. Varthema*

      100%!! And also, it’s fine to pass along information with your source attached! It doesn’t need to have a huge caveat emptor attached to it, just a simple “I checked with maintenance and they confirmed the chair can be moved by tomorrow” or “VP said there should be downtime tomorrow.” though given the other hyperbolic statements from LP, I wonder if in this environment it’d be seen as throwing people under the bus, or unacceptable because you’re trying to convey an image of perfect omniscient omniscience… it shouldn’t be either of those things, though!

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      1. Cj*

        I think they are saying “so and so told me that…”, but when it doesn’t happen, the person they told this to comes back with “YOU said, and it isn’t true”.

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        1. Smithy*

          Yeah – I think the OP is feeling adversarial because they have likely been put in a number positions where they feel like they’re lying or otherwise being wrong/inaccurate. And while it may just be making them feel badly, it may genuinely be making them look bad.

          Without knowing more about this person’s job, it may genuinely be a feature of their job where you regularly get less reliable information, that I like to think of as being “information in process”. Think of a colleague saying they can get XYZ to you by tomorrow, and it doesn’t come until the end of the week. And the issue isn’t always just when it arrives but also then communicating externally to someone when it’ll be ready and if that date works for them.

          All that to say, part of the OP succeeding in their job may be figuring out how to soften their answers and build in cushions. The example of moving something two inches – it would mean changing the message to “the plan is to move X two inches, if not by tonight then likely this week”. You’ve now given someone a reasonable expectation of when it’s most likely to happen, but also that it’s a plan and sometimes plans change once more information is available.

          Reply ↓
        2. umami*

          I think they are missing out on the part where, maybe they don’t need to be the messenger? If they are passing along information that turns out to be inaccurate, why not just respond and say, ‘that information came from So-and-So, I am copying them here so you can discuss it with them’, or something similar. Unless this person’s job is to manage these things, but then it would be their job to follow up and make sure thing X got done or that there is a new timeline, not just say ‘well, that’s what I was told’.

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    3. Peanut Hamper*

      I have literally moved things in the past only to have someone else move it back. If LW came up to me and accused me of lying about it……I’d be put off by their attitude and also their assumption that I was lying. Not sure exactly what I would do, but if nothing else, I’d have a data point about how LW sees the world and act accordingly going forward.

      Reply ↓
    4. MissMeghan*

      Totally agree. Also, I’ve seen many times where something said in passing becomes set in stone through poor communication. Popping into an office and saying “do you think you’ll get to x today?” and that becomes “x will be completed today”. If you’re asking because you need to relay to someone else and make a firm commitment, make sure you’re reflecting that when asking the question. And don’t make things more serious than they need to be by overpromising or overcommitting on informal or small items.

      Reply ↓
    5. LL*

      Yeah and I’m not sure if people literally said to LW “but YOU said etc etc” or if they said something else and that’s what LW heard OR if they did say that if they’re actually mad at/blaming LW or are just frustrated and directing it towards LW because she was the messenger.
      Also, there’s the possibility that LW blames her coworkers for stuff that isn’t entirely their fault and they’re responding to that.

      Reply ↓
      1. Wendy*

        Vacation time for appointments

        He works at a non profit resale shop, and everyone has a set schedule every week

        Reply ↓
    2. Lily Rowan*

      Dag. Yet another reason to be glad to live in Massachusetts. Our sick leave law explicitly says it can be used for routine medical appointments. (Among other things!)

      Reply ↓
      1. H3llifIknow*

        When I worked for “big 3 letter gov contractor” we had unlimited sick leave and they explicitly said it was fine to use it for appointments, taking care of ourselves and family, etc.. I jokingly asked, “what about taking my dog to the vet?” and he looked me dead on and said, “we don’t ask what type of doctor you’re going to or what the medical situation is.”

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    3. fhqwhgads*

      Oof. I’m guessing you’d know if this were the case or not, but double-check if state law where he works explicitly says sick leave can be used for illness or appointments. My understanding is some do. I wouldn’t be surprised if an asshole employer would conveniently pretend not to be aware of that (or genuinely be unaware of it even when it’s a law that applies to them).

      Reply ↓
  8. Caramel & Cheddar*

    If the measure of whether or not you shouldn’t require staff to use sick time for this stuff is that they’re a productive and reliable employee, then I wouldn’t even require that they make up the time they spend at their appointment by working late / flexing their time. Just let people go to the doctor and have a short day that day. I think about all the times I don’t take my full hour for lunch; put that towards the time you’d want me to make up for taking care of my health.

    In the grand scheme of how many hours a full-time employee works in a year, an hour or two a couple of times a year is not going to make or break their productivity but will engender a bit more goodwill towards the employer if they know they can get a check-up without having to then put in some extra hours once they’re done. If there’s some sort of extenuating circumstance that makes that impractical (e.g. some huge project deadline), fine, but in general I wouldn’t nickle and dime people.

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      Yeah, I frequently don’t take much of a lunch break, but we have untracked “unlimited” sick time that explicitly includes dr appointments – make it up if you need to, but don’t feel like you have to just for the sake of it.

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    2. spcepickle*

      This – My whole team is an odd mix of salaried but overtime eligible. We get a pretty generous amount of sick time that rollsovers. I am very clear with my team that if they are missing half a day or less to go to an appt that I don’t want to see anything on their timesheets. They are adults who are managing their own workload and a few hours several times a year does not impact anything.
      This gets me both good will and people who have sick time to use when they are actually sick, both of which are huge benefits.

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    3. Lady Danbury*

      My boss describes it as being on “professional time.” We have flexibility to attend stuff like appointments or children’s activities because we also work much longer hours when needed, so it balances out. This applies to not only doctor’s appointments but stuff like a quick blowout that may go a little longer than the standard lunch hour. The expectation is that we manage hour time and our workload appropriately.

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    4. Another Kristin*

      Yeah, salaried employees are supposed to be paid for the work, not the hours. This norm varies between workplaces obviously, but it seems pretty normal that you get paid for an amount of work or area of responsibility that requires more or less a standard 40-ish hour work week and if you go a bit over or a bit under, NBD.

      Of course there are nickel-and-dimey kinds of workplaces that want you to account for every second, but those places suck.

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    5. umami*

      Yes, I have actually pushed back requests for an hour or two of sick leave or personal leave, with a message saying they are free to take the time they need because I know they are getting the work done and often cut into their own time to do so. It’s almost sad to see how grateful people are for just being treated like … a person? (I inherited some staff of a very … difficult manager).

      Reply ↓
  9. mlem*

    My company requires us to account for 8 hours per workday, in some combination of working time or one of our time-off banks (PTO, sick, personal — look, I didn’t name ’em). Unusually for the US, we get enough sick time that most of us can use it for medical appointments, but folks who don’t have enough time can typically arrange to make up the time instead.

    We’re almost entirely salaried, but the time-carding is a complaint for another day.

    Reply ↓
    1. Governmint Condition*

      Sounds like your company is following the typical government employment model. Except policies for employees with not enough sick time may vary. (Here, there are few accommodations for that situation. But we get so much sick time and other leave, it should only happen to people who have long illnesses or recent hires who have not accrued much sick time yet.)

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    2. Texan In Exile*

      I was told I had to submit time cards for a salaried job. I asked my new boss if that meant I would get OT for extra hours (of which there were many, including weekends for trade shows and overseas trips).

      He looked astonished and told me no, no OT.

      Reply ↓
      1. Texan In Exile*

        (Salaried exempt, but still required to submit a timesheet. And not project work billed to clients or anything like that.)

        Reply ↓
        1. I Have RBF*

          Been there, done that. Billed in six minute increments. The company had an issue with field work where all of the salaried exempt engineers would bill 12 hours to the client, but only get paid their salary without comp time. So the company decided they would pay at straight time for field work over 8 hours in a day. That eased a lot of grumbling. IIRC, for salaried workers putting in a lot of extra hours, the company should be accruing comp time or paying it in straight time, but most companies in tech especially, just take advantage of their salaried workers.

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        2. Dog momma*

          I ended up salaried exempt at a NH, I coded for their financial. per diem at that….the boss called me in & said I also had to clock in & out for lunch btwn 11&12. I know I wasn’t one of the corporate nurses, I was hired strictly for coding. and covered that position per diem in 4 of their facilities as needed. I didn’t flex, but took my lunch half hour when I wanted, esp if I was involved in something complex or important. Figured it was when the person who hired me (who was wonderful and a great mentor), retired. And certain things changed. We retired and relocated out of state so it eventually solved itself.

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      2. CommanderBanana*

        Lollllllllllllllllllllll right?

        This came up at my current (soon to be former!) job about not getting comp time for traveling/staffing events over weekends. One of the many reasons I’m leaving this job was the nickel-and-diming over time when I’m salaried and work over 40 hours a week, which they want, but they don’t want to be flexible with time or grouse about comp time. You don’t get to have it both ways.

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      3. Lex Talionis*

        Also salaried exempt and no way in hell will I deduct sick time when I work 50-60 hours a week. So far I guess I’ve been lucky as there has never been any pushback.

        Reply ↓
      4. LL*

        if your salaried and exempt, of course you don’t get OT. Plenty of places require time cards because that’s how they track PTO, but they aren’t necessarily expecting you to put your exact hours on it. I just had this convo with my boss the other day: she’s exempt, but I’m not, so her time card comes prefilled because of that. (in a weird way – it enters the correct amount of hours each day, but doesn’t include the unpaid lunch hour). I would appreciate it if mine came prefilled so that I just had to adjust the times and not enter everything, but I’m non-exempt, so the system isn’t sent up to do that.

        Reply ↓
        1. Freya*

          Here in Australia, there’s a bunch of industries where you still get overtime if your salary is less than what you’d get if you were on the legal minimum for that role and getting overtime (general rule of thumb is 1.25x the minimum for your role under the Award for that role). If your contract excludes overtime or other entitlements under your Award, you’ve got to pass the Better Off Overall Test or it’s not legal.

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  10. frapperia*

    I’m in the UK so caveat, our working practices are very different from America’s.

    In my company (third sector, healthcare-adjacent) we just get to take the time, we don’t have to make it up or use sick leave. In previous orgs I had to make up the time, but it’s not a thing over here to use sick leave for something like that, and I’d push back on making up the time too if asked to.

    Reply ↓
    2. Mad Harry Crewe*

      US – in all of my salary jobs, for appointments of less than half a day, we just dip out early/show up late. It’s assumed that you’re making sure your work gets done. One employer had a sick time bank and my current is unlimited vacation (including sick time).

      Reply ↓
    3. amoeba*

      Same here – we explicitly have a category in the system that’s called “medical/dental appointment”. We do, however, also have (virtually) unlimited sick leave, so it wouldn’t really make a difference either way! There are other employers that require you to make up for the time though, although I guess you could just call in sick for the whole day in that case, so not sure what they’re achieving with that…

      We do only get the actual time we spend at the doctor’s office though, so if we have to travel back and forth and that takes time, we do have to make that part up. (Not that anybody checks – they trust us to report that stuff correctly.)

      Reply ↓
  11. Dinwar*

    My organization doesn’t care if you take a few hours off in the middle of the day, as long as you make it up later that day or that week. So for example, I had to take my car into a mechanic this morning, so I get to work extra tomorrow. Stems from the fact that a LOT of our work is field-based, and the flexibility arose as a perk (work 10 hours Monday through Thursday, take Friday off, that sort of thing).

    As long as all the work is done and the hours are good, and it’s not egregiously being taken advantage of, why, exactly, is this a problem that need to be resolved?

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  12. Nah*

    “I’m sure made up their work in other ways”

    You’re their manager and do weekly check-ins with your employees, I would really hope at this point you would know for sure if they’re actually completing their work or not(!)

    Reply ↓
    1. Ellis Bell*

      You’d be amazed at how many managers don’t ever consider something as obvious as looking at work output, but instead rely on signs of people being present like hours logged in to systems, keyloggers, start/end/break timings, talking and phone use. (Not aimed at OP, btw, it’s just a really common phenomenon).

      Reply ↓
      1. Nah*

        I know, but LW seems to be very concerned about the issue without having (seemingly) made an effort to even see if it’s an issue with their team. The wording in that quotation in particular stood out to me, especially right after saying they’re regularly checking up on their staff. What’s going on in these meetings they’re spending so much time on?

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  13. Nina from Corporate Accounts Payable*

    As a manager of a remote team, I’ve struggled with the right balance for doctor’s appointments and using PTO as well. I discussed with my manager and two hours was the grace period we landed on since that’s the typical time needed – not an issue if it went a bit longer. However, there was one person who would took the benefits of flex time too far too often, so they were required to enter sick time for appointments. I initially set out to have a standard policy across the group, but my manager recommended giving flexibility on a case-by-case basis to avoid punishing those who don’t abuse flexibility and to hold those who do accountable.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rainy*

      I can 100% endorse this–my experience has been that when there’s a “standard policy across the group” in response to someone taking advantage of flexibility, the people whose behaviour the policy was intended to address ignore it, but the people who haven’t been a problem get it in the teeth every time. So Bob down the hall who hasn’t done his job in six years continues doing nothing, but if I need to run out to the pharmacy to pick up a prescription, my manager climbs up my ass with a spoon about it.

      Reply ↓
  14. CTA*

    For the sick time question, I’m curious how much sick time/PTO is allotted at LW’s workplace. If there isn’t a lot of PTO allotted and you have responsible employees, then support flex time. If the LW wants employees to use PTO, then the employer needs to give that as a benefit.

    Once, I almost accepted a job with an employer that only gave 10 PTO days. That was your vacation time and sick time. Yes, only 10 days. I’m someone who takes half days for doctor’s appointments because of commuting time and wait time. I don’t want to use flex time because going to the doctor is stressful enough and I don’t want to worry about finding time to make up work. I turned down that job when they assumed my doctor’s appointment was an hour and told me to use flex time.

    Reply ↓
    1. Freya*

      One of my docs is halfway across town, so it takes 45 minutes to get there from either home or work. There is no nearer equivalent that meets my needs, and to get my meds I need to see them for an hour every six months, so that’s 2.5 hours every time I see them in person :-(

      Reply ↓
  15. Beboots*

    My organization, via collective agreement provisions, allows up to half a day for a medical appointment like an annual check-up (including travel time), and has separate provisions for pregnant staff who may have additional health check-ups. Above and beyond that (ongoing treatment, specialist appointments) my org has two personal leave days (which can be taken in half day increments) or sick leave. The expectation is that aside from supervisors and employees scheduling around it (e.g., if you’re working an evening shift, scheduling your doctor’s appointment for the morning when you’re not at work), if you’re away from your work for any reason you have to be on some sort of leave (sick leave, personal leave, bereavement leave, family related leave, whatever). It’s all dictated by the collective agreement.

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    1. SickTime*

      Wow. Most folks with chronic illnesses would be unable to work there. I’ve had as many as 3-5 appointments a week if you included drs, tests, and physical therapy. I’ve always used flex time as much as possible and sick time for the rest. If I had to use sick time for all of it I’d need 40+ sick days a year.

      Reply ↓
      1. Anon for this*

        same here, prefer to flex when I can. But I appreciate being able to use sick leave for tests and longer appointments when I don’t have bandwidth to put in the time elsewhere in the week. Having a chronic illness takes a lot of time — visits to the clinic and lab ARE managing it, just as staying home in bed is managing a respiratory bug.

        Reply ↓
  16. MapleLibrarian*

    Now I’m glad that my union contract has a clause in it that says that we can use up to 2 hours for medical/dental appointments without loss of pay. If we use more than 2 hours, then sick leave applies. But I’m out for, say, 2.5 hours, I’ll work an extra 1/2 hour. If it turns into 4 hours, I’ll do the sick time. And I’m cool with that for the people who work for me. As long as the work gets done….why not be flexible as possible? I know others that are more rigid, but….

    Reply ↓
    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I work in the financial industry and our handbook states we get 4 hours for a medical appointment. In all my years, nobody has been gone four hours, but we definitely come in late or leave a couple hours early. And a two hour appointment at lunch is common. The more I read about things like this, the more I realize my company is a unicorn.

      Reply ↓
  17. Flexible Freya*

    Honestly, I would groan at having to use sick time for appointments. It’s a huge privilege, but *all* of my managers’ mindsets have been, “Spend your day how you want, but the expectation of full-time, high-quality work remains the same.” Sometimes I work odd hours (never weekends), but it’s worth it to feel trusted to manage my time wisely while managing chronic illness and honoring my mental health needs. I know this isn’t feasible for all roles or fields, but I thought I’d provide an example in case others’ testimonies are valuable data for you. Best of luck!

    Reply ↓
  18. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

    Re: vegetarian

    Fast casual places are the best alternatives to fast food since they are usually widely available and familiar. If someone wants to get something quick off the highway and suggests McDonalds, countering with Chipotle for example is an easy option that’s usually also readily available.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jennifer Strange*

      That’s a good point! Come to think of it, I feel like any place with a “make your own” model like Chipotle or Subway is likely a good choice for vegetarian since you’ve got a bit more direct control of things (not a vegetarian myself, so feel free to let me know if I’m wrong about that!)

      Reply ↓
    2. Manders*

      And if you go to Panera, any sandwich or salad can swap out the chicken or other meat with avocado for free.

      Reply ↓
      1. keyboards all the way*

        And with the way inflation is (compared to when the original letter ran on here, almost 5 years ago!), a meal at traditional fast food places (McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, etc) will probably run you about the same price as an actual vegetarian meal at a Panera/Chipotle-type fast casual place. But the difference is that the LW will be more likely to get something they can actually eat at the latter places (I don’t know about BK or Wendy’s but McDonald’s nixed their salads either right before or during COVID). There have been a lot of discussion pieces about how fast food is no longer the *cheap* option that it used to be, especially in some cities (at least if you’re looking at the combo meals).

        Reply ↓
    3. keyboards all the way*

      Also, depending on where the LW is in the US (such as the East Coast), and their specific dietary needs, Wawa still has some good vegetarian options. Yes, salads but also sandwiches/wraps, mac and cheese, and soups. They’re much more of a regional chain in the East Coast, around PA and NJ (Sheetz is the Pittsburgh equivalent) but they’ve been venturing as far south as Florida lately.

      Reply ↓
  19. VTKristen*

    For the sick time, are your employees hourly workers or exempt workers? If they are hourly, they are clocked in for work or clocked out for break/vacation/sick time/appointments. How they want to apply various buckets of paid time to get paid their 40 hours is up to them. If they are exempt, then unless they are getting their work done or taking excessive time away that they should be available, then no, they shouldn’t have to take sick time. salaried exempt people are really being paid to complete the job, not by the hour so its completely different.

    Reply ↓
    1. Hmmm*

      For medical appointments… what’s HR policy? I had an awful manager that nickel and dimed us despite being salaried and fairly flexible business hours. HR was furious to hear that she was telling us to use sick leave when official policy is sick leave is only for when ill

      Reply ↓
    2. Expectations*

      Um, every salaried exempt position I’ve ever had expected a 40 hour week minimum unless you took time off to cover the rest of the hours.

      Reply ↓
  20. Bast*

    Unless you have generous sick time, I would caution against forcing employees use sick time for doctor’s appointments– all this results in is people either not going to the doctor ever, or coming in sick. I didn’t go to the doctor for YEARS because my sick time was so meager that I needed it for actual sick days and couldn’t afford to “waste” it by going to the doctor. You were forced to use an entire sick day (not just hours) for an appointment. My view changes slightly if you let someone subtract hours rather than whole days, but it still doesn’t work if you’re only getting like, 3 sick days.

    Old Job you had a choice of either using PTO (it was all one bank) or making up the time. They allowed you to take PTO in hourly increments rather than whole days, so this was manageable. Usually, I chose to save my PTO and just make up the time. My current company does not really care as long as it is not longer than a couple of hours, which usually works out if I just pick end of the day appointments. I do not have to use PTO or make the time up, because they understand that most doctors only operate during the standard Mon-Fri, 9 to 4 ish type schedule. I frankly prefer it this way.

    Reply ↓
    1. Greg*

      Dumping vacation and sick time into the same PTO bucket creates the same incentive: “I’ll drag myself into work with a temp of 103 so that I can have an extra day on the beach this summer”.

      In an ideal world, companies would only have vacation/personal time and there would be no such thing as “sick days”. If you’re sick, stay home until you get better. But I get that doesn’t work for every organization

      Reply ↓
      1. Bast*

        I can see it both ways. Personally, I like having my days to use as I pleased, but in both organizations (toxic culture) calling in sick was frowned upon and seen as a great inconvenience. Coming in sick was lauded for being “dedicated.”

        I think just allowing people to either stay and WFH (I get this is not possible with all jobs) OR just call out when sick as you stated would be optimal, as would giving adequate PTO. I can completely understand why the person in the comments above who only got 10 days a year for both sick and vacation had to be very selective about what qualified as “sick enough” to stay home — but it’s sort of the same when you only have 3 sick days and need to save them up for the one, inevitable “big bad” sickness that rolls in during the holiday season. Places need to stop being so stingy with time off. In other threads I remember reading about companies that forced employees to take a week off multiple times a year for auditing purposes — honestly sounds like a dream to me.

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  21. Greg*

    I used to work for a very bureaucratic organization that had a generous sick-day policy, but required that if we were going to miss any time, we had to take either a half or whole day. So if I had a 9 a.m. doctor’s appointment, I would take the rest of the morning off and show up after lunch. Very silly.

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  22. Yes And*

    I have a related question to #1: I have two employees who have lately been using a lot of flex time for various appointments. But one of them is super-conscientious (to a fault; I’ve been trying to get her to let things ride more), and always makes up any time missed (and then some). The other is a strict 9-5-er, which I don’t mind in and of itself, she’s getting her work done such as it is – although her general lackadaisical attitude makes it difficult to transfer more work onto her plate from Employee A, which is long term what I really need to do.

    In that context, it feels wrong to nickel and dime employee A over her flex time, and it feels wrong to let employee B slide, and it feels wrong to hold them to different policies. What’s right here?

    Reply ↓
    1. Bast*

      If the employee is getting her work done as is, I guess I am not seeing the problem with work itslef, unless you want her to come in and twiddle her thumbs? That being said, I agree that it should probably be the same standard for everyone, though I do not know what works for your company. My old job gave you the option of either making up the time or using PTO. At the end of the week, you needed to have 40 hours total, whether that was by hours worked or a combo of work and PTO hours. That is allowing some choice.

      Or, you could have a cutoff- anything more than 2 hours needs to be PTO, anything less you do not. Obviously, if it gets to be a problem you address the problem itself. My boss heavily discourages trying to make up those 2 hours — ultimately if I came in early he isn’t going to force me to leave– but by his language he really makes it known that he does not want, nor is he expecting me, to “make up” the time for every little appointment. It has really helped me relax into feeling comfortable actually having a doctor’s appointment. Maybe you can use language like that with your employee who currently insists on making up her time.

      Reply ↓
      1. Polly Hedron*

        Employee B wouldn’t have to twiddle her thumbs: “Yes And” wants to transfer work from overworked employee A to lackadaisical employee B.

        Reply ↓
    2. Nina from Corporate Accounts Payable*

      I posted above that my manager and I decided on a case-by-case basis depending on the employee. I tried a standard policy when one person took too many liberties with flex time, but when my manager caught wind of it, he felt others were being punished because of one person. So those that don’t abuse it don’t have to enter PTO and the one that took it too far in the past has to enter the time as PTO. Manager’s discretion.

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    3. WS*

      I don’t think this has any relation to time off, though – B just doesn’t do as much work in the time given. So transfer more work to her anyway and see what happens. You’re already holding them to different policies, informally.

      Reply ↓
  23. RagingADHD*

    I know a lot of people object to time tracking or “clocking in” and out if your terms of employment don’t require it. But it really does present an easy solution to questions like this, because you can see immediately whether you are making up your hours for the week or need to take sick time.

    I’ve never not had to track time, even when on salary, and I think a lot of folks would benefit from the practice, even if they just do it on their own. As a bonus, it also lets overtime-exempt employees compute their real hourly wage, which could be helpful in salary negotiations.

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  24. Blue Pen*

    Our policy is generally, no, you don’t have to mark for sick time if it’s a standard-length doctor’s appointment. We also get something like up to 30 minutes travel time each way, so about 2 hours total, as “grace” that we can flex at ours/our manager’s discretion.

    That said, if I know that I’m going on a round of stacked doctor’s appointments in the afternoon or undergoing a lengthier treatment or procedure during the visit, then I’ll put in for the sick time as a 1/2 day.

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  25. Generic Name*

    Re: sick time. I think it really depends on your company’s policies as well as the people you manage as well. I’m not saying that everyone should be treated uniquely in this regard, but if you generally have a trustworthy, high-performing team, I’d allow them to flex their time. If you have people who need more guidance and more firm management, then telling them to take sick time is probably the way to go.

    At my last company, I had billable hours, and I had hundreds of hours of sick time banked. So I just used sick time for doctor appointments. My current company doesn’t do billable hours, so I normally just flex my days/weeks when I have a doctor appointment.

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  26. Inkognyto*

    If I get my work done my manager doesn’t care if I take 2-3 hrs for appts. Then again I’m self managed and I don’t even need to tell them, I just update my calendar. Why 2-3 hrs? I’m rural and remote. A 1 hr dr appt is a min of 2 hrs just including minimal drive time.

    The time is made up later and it keeps people happier. It doesn’t matter that it’s for the doctor or something else why?

    A lot of parents need to drop their kids off at school or daycare and pick them up. If they were made to use flex then the headache of just having to approve and manage that would be a nightmare on a daily basis. This seems to be the general consensus of everyone that reports to the same Director I do.

    Reply ↓
  27. Anon-E-Mouse*

    Happy Cow is a very useful website and app for locating restaurants and stores with vegan or vegetarian food. (Many vegans and vegetarians know about Happy Cow already but it’s also useful for anyone who needs to find a restaurant that accommodates vegans and vegetarians.)

    On the App, you can search for options near you so if you’re traveling, you can locate options nearby quickly. There are customer reviews so you can get more information on things like how knowledgeable the restaurant staff are about veg options, how the food tastes etc.

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  28. Flit*

    My sick time and vacation time are in two separate buckets, and the amount of vacation time you get increases the longer you work here but sick time does not. Both roll over into the next year; there’s a cap on vacation time but none on sick time. I’ve been here long enough that I hit the vacation cap, so I take vacation time for medical appointments. I think technically I’m supposed to use sick time for this so that was my interpretation of the headline!

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  29. Raida*

    If they can reasonably plan their day around it, Flex.
    If they realistically are taking half a day, not getting work done, don’t need the stress of finishing the day, Sick Leave.

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  30. Sparrow*

    Tip for LW#2, as someone who didn’t eat meat for a few years: if you want a fast food place that has vegetarian options, Taco Bell can replace the meat in any of their dishes with black beans, refried beans, or potatoes. When I wasn’t eating meat, Taco Bell was one of the only fast food places I was able to eat at regularly.

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  31. Goldie*

    We are in California and carefully stick to rules for salaried employees, so most of our employees are not salaried. Also primarily in person. We have a lot of sick time, most of our employees have at least 200 hours of sick time banked and many have a lot more. So we do require staff to take sick time if they go to doctor’s appointments or take a kid to a dr appt. Many of our employees do have kids, so I think they prefer to just take the sick time and not have to make up the time later.
    California rules for overtime are really strict so you can’t make up time on another day without getting overtime. We discourage flexing for this reason.

    I am salaried, but am careful to use sick time for appointments, even if I work more than 8 hours in a day, that way there isn’t a benefit for managers that hourly staff don’t get. With two teens in braces and sports and elderly parents to help out, I have a ton of medical appointments that I am managing–usually at least 3 a month. Its really frustrating, but our policy makes me feel like there isn’t any doubt that my time away is documented.

    I feel like having flexibility for some people and not for others (because they aren’t keeping up with their work) is legally risky from an EEO standpoint. Unless someone is on a PIP, how to you differentiate that Joe can have flexibility and Judy can’t. Or what if Judy has a ton of appointments (like I do). Can she miss 10 hours a work a month for medical appointments?

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  32. pcake*

    I’ve been remote since 1996. I can choose whether to use sick time for medical appointments or work the hours I spent at the appointments at a different time.

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  33. Angstrom*

    Alison is spot-on: Do the homework to make the vegetarian option the easy option. “There’s a place with great reviews 5 minutes from the next exit” is a lot more likely to win agreement than “Can we go somewhere else?”

    As mentioned above, Happy Cow is a useful tool. I’ve also used TripAdvisor reviews and similar sources.

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  34. All het up about it*

    I worked somewhere once where we I, and many other staff members, went from exempt to non-exempt. Non-exempt employees could make up time through-out the week, but if you couldn’t do that you were expected to take your sick time. Exempt employees got greater flexibility.

    Most of the places I’ve worked I’ve been exempt and things have been very flexible. I’ve found that the longer I’m at a job and the bigger a sick time bank gets, the more likely I am to take the time, so I just don’t have to worry about making it up. Like – I could, but why? Occasionally there is a why, like a huge project, but if not… I’m taking my time!

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  35. Zona the Great*

    For number 2, everyone should petition for a Salad-And-Go near their homes and offices. A huge custom made salad for under $7 is the best fast food ever.

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  36. Lucifer*

    Everyone’s getting really hung up on the fast food aspect of the 2nd letter without considering that’s from May 2020 (almost 5 years old!). So thanks to inflation, the OP nowadays could probably go to say, Panera, for an actually-vegetarian meal and spend the same amount of money they would have spent at a traditional fast food place like McDonald’s or Burger King. But again, the difference is that at Panera, they would have gotten something closer to a real vegetarian meal.

    And yes, McDonald’s has not used beef tallow on their french fries since like 1990. They use canola/vegetable oil and a “natural beef flavoring” (whatever the heck that means).
    It’s called Google, you’re welcome, also maybe try leaving your house sometime and interacting with people.

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    1. fhqwhgads*

      The lawsuit about beef tallow in the McD’s fries was in 2002, not 1990. They claimed they started using only vegetable oil in 1990 and it was found not to be the case. Also the “beef flavoring” they use isn’t vegetarian either.

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  37. The Body Is Round*

    At my company we have a decent amount of PTO but very little sick time, especially in an age where we are aware of the need to not come to work contagious (as opposed to just using sick time on the day you feel the worst during the course of an illness).

    As soon as I know when my doctor’s appointment is, I’m requesting PTO for that day or at least part of it. We can use PTO in quarter hour increments.

    Sick days are more for short notice as well. We can’t book a sick day in advance as far as I know.

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  38. Nilsson Schmilsson*

    Years ago, my employer made us use vacation for doc appointments. I needed a preventative colonoscopy, and I was stunned that I was charged vacation time…because I wasn’t sick. And I was salaried. When I became biggest boss, that policy got axed. Salaried employees weren’t penalized at all for a doctor’s appointment or procedures. Hourly associates were allowed to make up time if they wanted to or use sick or vacation leave. As a side note, when we were bought out, the new as*hole owner stripped away all of our accrued sick leave. We had been able to accrue up to 60 days, which was great when an acute illness struck. New owner said (and I quote) “I ain’t paying you people to be sick on my nickel.”

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    1. Bruce*

      Was that a big enough company to “self insure” their health plan? Because my former CEO would personally veto expensive operations that he didn’t want to pay for. I was not there when it happened but a friend of mine finally had enough when the CEO vetoed the liver transplant for one of my friend’s staff, the guy survived long enough to find a new job that had coverage that would pay for it. That was the last straw for my friend…

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  39. fhqwhgads*

    My fully remote employer’s official policy is: if your appointment is expected to take less than 4 hours, just go and come back. If it’s expected to take longer than that, use sick time.

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  40. KatieP*

    For LW#3, this gem has helped me navigate similar situations: Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence (or stupidity).

    No idea where it came from – it gets attributed to lots of famous names.

    It’s a kinda harsh saying, but the gist being that you should assume these things are unintentional until you have proof they were intentional. It makes getting along at work, and in society at large, easier.

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  41. Jess*

    Dear plant based people: pack contingency food with you. Is that fair? no. Does it cut down on strife? yes. Source: haven’t eaten meat since 1993 :)

    Reply ↓

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