was it reasonable to fire a new hire who was too overwhelmed to work on day 3?

by Alison Green on November 7, 2024

A reader writes:

The clinic I work for filled a medical receptionist position. The new hire had worked as a receptionist for other offices for over 18 years. Sure, they had to learn the ropes of a new EHR (electronic health record) program, but they should already know enough to not be so overwhelmed that they had to call in, right?

On the third day of employment the new hire called in, stating that they “were too overwhelmed and needed to regroup.” They were going to take the day to get their notes together and would come in the next day. I, as the training manager, asked that they come in and offered to help them organize their notes and answer any questions. They refused. There was not any sign of remorse or promises to be more dependable.

For only two days in, the new hire had been doing well. But training was just the basics at that point. We had not even gotten to the vast amount of information required to fully do the job. And training for any job is a bit overwhelming, but that is part of the training process, right? If the employee was too overwhelmed to even come into work, it would no doubt be far worse down the line.

Yes, there was a chance that they would work out and be the ideal employee. But after having been burned one too many times wasting time and resources and wary of any red flag, our administration team decided it was best to terminate them instead of waiting for what seemed like the inevitable – having an unreliable or easily overwhelmed employee.

Is this a reasonable response? The individual had quit their job to start the new position at our clinic. But they were the one to call in for their shift. Is it reasonable to terminate such an employee within their first week because you are not “sure”?

It’s not unreasonable to be very alarmed that a new hire called out on day three because two days of training had been too much and they needed to “regroup.”

I’d be alarmed by that too.

I think ideally you would have talked with them in person the next day (assuming they did come in the next day) and tried to get a better understanding of what was going on. Who knows, maybe it wasn’t just about the job but also outside stuff as well … but absent any additional details like that, it’s a pretty major red flag and I don’t think it was unwarranted to just decide to cut your losses at that point.

I am curious about what the rest of the picture looked like: was this someone with strong references and a history of solid stays at previous jobs? If so, I’d be a lot more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least as far as having a conversation with them before deciding anything (as well as to wonder if something had happened during those two days that you didn’t know about yet).

But with the person not offering up any additional info about what was going on, even after you asked that they come in and said you’d sit and help them, I can’t deem your management team’s response unreasonable.

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  1. GoodNPlenty*

    Good call. The person self selected out of a job. I worked in a fast paced nursing environment which was night shift. When new hires showed they were unable to handle the hours (not getting daytime sleep, falling asleep on the job) we’d move to termination quickly. We had found if we propped them up, gave lots of chances, we’d end up firing them later on anyway.

    1. Goldenrod*

      Came here to say this. At a hospital I worked at, any nurse who was a problem during training week was fired pretty swiftly.

      Same reason: experience had shown that people who were problematic during training were going to stay that way.

      I also worked at a school where one of the lecturers never allowed students to add her class late. She said that adding late wasn’t really the problem per se – it was that she found, through experience, that students adding late often caused all kinds of OTHER problems too.

      In my opinion, more of these kinds of situations should be nipped in the bud early – so I think you did 100% the right thing! As someone who is always overwhelmed when they start a job…I think this person’s behavior is pretty outrageous and unacceptable. I doubt they would have gotten better. You did everyone a favor.

      1. Lenora Rose*

        I can understand that for nursing, it’s a high-stress career that requires a lot of fast adaptation.

        However, not allowing anyone to add classes late regardless of reason would have screwed me entirely out of a year of education when my Grandma heard I was going to take a year off to get the funds together rather than take on more student loans, and sent me a cheque two days into the term. Unless this was also a highly technical field or an extremely compressed class like some summer terms, I can’t see an excuse for that for a lecture.

        1. Kevin Sours*

          Yeah not allowing adding classes as all is some used hay. So many innocent reasons for it like “They changed the room for class A and now I can’t make it from class B on time and I need to redo my schedule to make sure I’m taking the required classes”

        2. Cease and D6*

          Nearly all universities in the US and Canada have an ‘Add/Drop’ deadline between one and two weeks after the start of lectures. I assume that going beyond that is what Goldenrod is referring to. Students who join a class after missing two weeks’ worth of material have already been covered are setting themselves up for failure. If a student was actually present in my class for those two weeks and then asked to add late, I’d probably let them, but the problem case is someone swapping into your class three weeks into the term after missing all the preparatory and expectation-setting parts of the class.

          1. mrs whosit*

            I don’t think that’s what Goldenrod is saying, though. I read it as meaning this particular instructor wouldn’t let students add during that period – after all, if the university policy is that they can’t add after that, the instructor hardly needs to take a stand on that.

            1. Owlet*

              The policy at the university that I work at is that students CAN add classes after that first add/drop week. However, they need the Dean’s permission to do so. And A lof to Dean’s don’t let stundents join after that first week. Because experiance has shown that they oftern stuggle in the classes and drop out/fail. They do not want to set up the student for failure and take their money.

        3. Jam*

          I think the point there is that this particular lecturer made that policy based on the evidence she saw in her particular class.

    2. Malarkey01*

      Different industry but also one that requires a really good fit and we have the same approach. If it’s not working in training, we save everyone’s time because experience has shown it won’t work out and we’ll have wasted everyone’s time and resources (and the chance for errors is too high).

    3. Richard Hershberger*

      Back when I was vastly young, I got fired a week into a job as an EMT for an ambulance company. In retrospect, it was the right call.

  2. Dawn*

    Yeah, that’s…

    If nothing else I’d expect a brand new hire to know better than to admit that they’re staying home on day three because they’re overwhelmed. The fact that they didn’t/couldn’t come up with anything a little less concerning would, itself, be a strike against them for me. It shows a real lack of judgment.

      1. Dawn*

        The one time I did this, it was “I’m so sorry, I know how bad this looks, but working in a new office with new people I seem to have run into a bug I’ve never had before and I’m just in no condition to make it in today.” New office, new exposures is something people get.

        2. Richard Hershberger*

          Yup. That happened to me once. It was fine. There was a bug that was going around the office, so my boss was not surprised it hit me. I bounced back and worked there for several years.

      2. Retired early Miss the money*

        Sore throat and/or earache. They can come on quickly and go away just as quickly legitimately.

    2. Guacamole Bob*

      This. Someone calls in and is apologetic about calling out so soon into a new job but they’re really not feeling well (which sounds like it may even have been true, from a mental health standpoint)? Maybe a sign to keep an eye on reliability but not a huge deal. Needing to “regroup” and not showing any sign that they realize this is not a normal professional reaction to a couple days of training? Something is off.

      1. Boof*

        I can’t help but think if one is overwhelmed with training, the thing to do is go in and talk about it and break it down/work through it, not just bail! I agree it’s a bad sign that they’re not equipped to handle the almost certain stresses of being a medical receptionist – but it’s surprising someone with an 18 year work history would do this, almost want the follow up conversation out of shear curiosity / what the heck – not that you’re ever guaranteed an answer

        1. Sloanicota*

          I think they didn’t like what they saw of the job, TBH. Maybe they were hoping it would be more different from their last job and it’s the exact same, or maybe it’s TOO different, or they didn’t like the office vibe, or whatever.

          1. StarTrek Nutcase*

            IDK I have certainly “wanted” to call out in the first few days (or even weeks) of a new job for being overwhelmed, but never did. It was especially hard when going from a job I was confident in to a new one where I felt stupid at first. But with lots of self-talk I did go in and recognized each day was getting slightly (even minisculely) better.

            IME LW made the right and only call by firing this employee. As her trainer, I wouldn’t want to waste more time especially knowing days 1 & 2 weren’t a full press. As a manager, it would be next to impossible for me to ever trust the employee’s reliability or judgement.

        2. SadieMae*

          This reminds me of the time I called my gynecologist’s office to make an appointment for an endometrial biopsy.

          The receptionist said, “Um, I’m new here and I don’t know what that is, so I don’t know how much time to schedule. What exactly is it?”

          “They take a narrow tube and put it through your cervix to collect some tissue from the uterine lining,” I said.

          “Oh my GOD!” she exclaimed. “That sounds AWFUL!!!”

          “Well, it does hurt, but they need to make sure–” I started to reply.

          “I mean, they put a TUBE up in there??” she continued.

          And so on. I managed to talk her down and get the appointment scheduled, but I thought, lady, being a receptionist in an OB/GYN’s office is the wrong gig for you if it alarms you this much to hear about painful medical procedures! I was picturing her going into total meltdown every time someone called to say they were in labor…

          2. A New Day of Anon*

            The sad thing is that someone like this probably thinks they’re being empathetic. If anyone ever has the nerve to tell her that her shock and surprise shift interactions to being inappropriately all about her, she would probably switch up and accuse other people of being too sensitive.

            It’s okay not to be familiar with something or be squeamish or concerned for other people’s comfort. Just…not like that.

            1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

              Not like that. Maybe as a younger, less experienced friend. But as a receptionist for an OB/GYN you need to remain calm and professional and never freak out. Like, nurses are not allowed to run, only walk very quickly, because the patients panic if they see a nurse running. The receptionist is not a healthcare professional but still they need to demonstrate the HCP attitude.

              1. ferrina*

                The Nurse Walk is intense. I have several nurses in my family, and they all move incredibly fast when walking. I end up needing to jog to keep up.

              2. Media Mouse*

                Nurses are the leaders of the ward and group. Not doctors.

                Leaders walk. Leaders never run and show panic.

            2. Lilac*

              I would have gotten anxious and cancelled the appointment after an interaction with a receptionist like that. Because it was hard enough for me to ask for help with gynaecological issues in the first place.

          3. Stanley steamers*

            Oh my god. I’ve had a colposcopy (over 10 years ago), IUD insertions and removals since 2012, and an excision procedure for endometriosis. The first two were done in my GYN’s office like any other Pap smear while the endometriosis surgery was an outpatient surgery under general anesthesia (during the height of COVID so no one one could stay with me at the hospital! Such fun!)

            I’ll let others google what a colposcopy is but if I’d been calling the office to schedule that procedure and gotten THAT receptionist on the phone who started freaking out like that??? Oh boy. My doctor at the time (who I was already having reservations about and actually stopped going to not long after) would have gotten an earful from me. THAT is why “soft skills” and bedside manner especially matter so much in medicine. Even with the supporting staff.

        3. Mockingjay*

          One thing I’ve learned over the years: companies and offices within the same industry vary wildly in terms of employee workload, duties, and expectations. They may have had 18 years of experience, but were those in smaller medical practices? Offices with a large front staff to split the workload? Offices that hadn’t modernized much? (There are plenty that do the bare minimum to comply with electronic records – those systems can be expensive.)

          While I agree that it was best to let them go right way, I’d look at whether the job quals accurately describe needed skills and ensure that interviews include a candid discussion of the pace and cover the systems the candidate would have to use.

      3. Ellie*

        Particularly after they refused to come in after being offered that help. That’s a huge red flag. The combination of being so clueless as to think that calling out on day 3 for being ‘overwhelmed’ is an ok thing to do, coupled with refusing a direct offer of help… yeah unless it was some kind of niche skill, I would have let them go too.

        1. Light Singer*

          I have to wonder if, in our zeal to destigmatize mental illness, we’ve gone just a little too far in some ways. We all occasionally feel overwhelmed, but, as a mature adult, this employee should have long since found constructive, appropriate ways to deal with stress. AND she should have realized that telling your job that you’re too stressed out to work that day will fly like a lead balloon. Seriously, folks – we don’t have to spill EVERYTHING to everyone just because we can!

      1. BatManDan*

        what was weird to me, is that they said they were basically going to WFH. I mean, they were going to dictate their own work structures, and be unavailable for any NEW material, but if you really are going to work, why would you call in “overwhelmed” instead of going to the office and saying “too much too fast, can I have a day/ half-day to organize and process what I’ve already encountered?”

        1. Ellie*

          Oh I didn’t catch that… you don’t think they expected to be paid for that ‘regrouping’ time? That’s really cheeky.

    4. Smithy*

      Completely agree.

      I do think one of the red flags for me would be their overall professionalism and exactly what kind of environment they came from. I’ve been at my job now for about 4 years, have a solid reputation with my supervisor, and recently I had a situation where I took too much nighttime cold medicine and was really feeling out of it the next day and felt comfortable telling her that.

      However, that’s because of the nature of our relationship now. First week on the job, it would have been “so sorry, have xyz sudden illness”. Especially for someone with 18 years of experience, this just makes me wonder more about where they came from and the overall professional norms there.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Oh man, that reminds me when I’d only been at a job for a few months and had to explain to my manager that I’d had a bad reaction to my *non-drowsy* cold medication after I fell asleep in a 5-person meeting with them. I’m surprised I made it home on the first try, since I also fell asleep on the bus home.

        1. Cheesy McCheddar*

          If it makes you feel better, a few years ago, I had a pack of hayfever meds in my bag that I’d grabbed very quickly from home and was finding myself super drowsy at work. One of my team had to wake me up at the computer one afternoon, at which point I realised I’d accidentally grabbed and been taking an antihistamine that causes drowsiness and not the non drowsy one I normally take.
          Especially embarrassing as I’m a pharmacist

    5. Serious Silly Putty*

      I hear ya on the judgement thing, but also:
      This is what many neurodivergent people HATE about navigating a neurotypical space. You’re supposed to lie?! But if you’re caught lying it’s shameful… so you have to frame thing such that they walk away with the wrong information but that you can’t be too blamed. But…

      So, yeah, it looks better to have a stomach bug, but I wouldn’t say it’s better judgement to be dishonest.

      1. TheCakeIsALie*

        I understand what you’re saying, but I feel like that’s a different situation. That’s a different kind of medical accommodation that could be explained “I have a medical condition that requires XY accommodations to deal with.” Or something to that effect. This person refused reasonable requests to discuss the situation and seek another solution.

        1. Nobby Nobbs*

          Huh? Serious Silly Putty didn’t say anything about asking for an accommodation for being neurodivergent. They said the social norm around lying being more advisable but only if you don’t get caught in this case is nonintuitive.

          1. Tea Monk*

            yes, most people assume that if people mention being neurodivergent and not understanding that there’s a problem that needs fixing, but it’s just a difference! we don’t need to all say that we’re good neurodivergents either. it’s fine

      2. Santiago*

        I think your point is valid but I also think it’s meaningful to say that most neurotypical people don’t see it as lying. If you say “I’m so sorry but I really don’t feel well today! I hate to put you in this situation, but I won’t be able to make it in.” that’s 1) still true, but 2) it doesn’t reveal information that suggests a non-understanding of the commitment of starting a new job. I’m sure the second one is difficult for neurodiverse people, because it pertains to social context, but just figured it was worth chiming in on the “lying” comment.

        1. Tangerine steak*

          I’m NT and I see it as lying. Honesty will work against you, dishonesty is what they want and expect – so be dishonest. Just be consistent and don’t get caught.

          Mostly I can get away with dishonesty by implication but I will outright lie if I have to short of anything formal (I won’t falsify declarations, medical certificates etc)

        2. Inigo Montoya*

          I’m ND, and my two cents is that it’s technically lying in the strictest sense of the term, but no real deceit is taking place because bosses with healthy boudaries only care so much about the literal truth of your words. The relevant information from their perspective is that they shouldn’t expect you at work that day, but you aren’t resigning or abandoning your job. Ultimately, they’ll do whatever they want to do with that information with minimal regard for the details you give them. The function you serve by making some kind of universally acceptable excuse isn’t to make a watertight case for your absence so much as it is to symbolically convey, “I understand that this isn’t ideal and am still committed to my job (but nevertheless, I’ve made my choice for today).”

          As an example: there was a (pre-pandemic) point in my life where I was frantically job searching to get away from a problematic coworker. I had something like nine interviews in six weeks, some with more notice than others. I doubt my job actually believed that I had a bout of food poisoning, an unspecificed multi-appointment dental procedure, a minor veterinary emergency and the funeral of my great aunt Leota Shrewsbury quite that close together. But they had the information they needed, could have disciplined me if they wanted to, and apparently decided the string of absences didn’t warrant any follow-up. Everyone politely acted surprised when I gave my notice.

        2. mbs001*

          Exactly! No matter what your issue is. And calling out like this on day 3!! No-brainer in terminating them and cutting the company’s losses.

      4. Slimboy Fat*

        Hmm, no, that’s not the same thing at all and not the right takeaway at all (fellow ND here who’s also been burned by NT workplace expectations, and even I’m like “LOL what???” when reading this letter).

      5. Dawn*

        I literally am AuDHD so

        I don’t hate this, I’ve learned how to navigate this, we are not a monolith

        1. Nicole Maria*

          Right, sometimes I’m not a fan of the “neurodivergent people don’t understand xyz social norms.”

          I understand that that’s a lot of peoples’ experience (and it’s true they weren’t saying this is universal), but for many (most?) of us, these kinds of social norms are something you learn just like you learn anything else. Even if they don’t make sense to me personally, I can remember what’s acceptable and not in an office setting.

          1. Dawn*

            I know they didn’t say it’s universal, but I think maybe the amount that it’s brought up here does us a collective disservice.

            I really don’t need people taking away implications that ND people are not going to be worth the trouble of hiring. I think what “most of us” do is learn to deal with this stuff without constant seething resentment.

            1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

              Thing is you’re all different right? so it’s impossible to know whether this or that thing is going to be harder for you.
              And there was no mention of OP’s trainee being neuro anything so why even mention it?

      6. Ceanothus*

        I do hate this. I’ve learned to navigate it, but like. I’m often more mindful of the optics of a situation than my personal heath.

      7. Jennifer*

        I’m neurodivergent, and I once reacted very badly to a new med at work – all of a sudden I couldn’t move one of my hands. I slooowly drove home with a coworker behind me to make sure I got there alright (I was a relatively new driver at the time and had never tried doing it with one hand). The next day, I was on the verge of having a seizure and ended up calling 911. I could barely get the words out to explain to the operator what was happening.

        I already didn’t get along with my boss, and she’d been obviously skeptical of my request to go home the day before. When I called her to say I wasn’t coming in that day or probably for the next week, I was out of it and my frantic apologies, in a stumbling, forced voice, probably made her think I was on drugs. I resigned a few months later under unrelated pressure from her, but that incident, I imagine, did NOT help.

      8. ferrina*

        There are ways to navigate this without lying. I’m ADHD and grew up in an unstable household, so I miss social nuances that are second nature for some others.

        The thing that the new hire in the letter got wrong is that he didn’t think about how his words/actions would impact others, and he may not have thought about what the business needed from him. This is true whether he is neurodiverse or neurotypical.

        The “I have a stomach bug” lie works because it’s built on an subliminal understanding of what the business needs and how the candidate is meeting those needs. The thought process is a) the business needs someone that can thrive in high stress and information; b) you are overwhelmed and not currently able to meet that; c) you know that it would be illogical to tell a business that has limited information about you that you can reliably meet their needs even though you aren’t currently showing evidence of that; d) therefore you skip the whole conversation and e) prove through your later actions that you are meeting their needs (i.e, come back on Day 4 and rock the training and do great at the role). For most people this thought process is subconcious. My neurospicy self has gone a different direction with that logic- I go through a-c, but then at d) I go into overshare and evidence. I explain exactly how I know that I will thrive and offer evidence of how I have gone into overwhelm and come back to be amazing.

        What doesn’t work is when someone doesn’t hold up to their work commitments and doesn’t acknowledge the impact of that. I’ve seen that happen with both neurotypical and neurodiverse coworkers- the important thing is that you are able to hold to your commitments, and if you can’t, you acknowledge the impact. That speaks to character.

        1. mbs001*

          Yup. Doesn’t matter the reason. Being that that unprofessional in your first days — most likely on a probation period — should be the death of your job.

    7. niknik*

      Also, this is not a fresh graduate / intern. This is someone who has been in the workplace for nearly two decades !

    8. Can't get the hang of Thursdays*

      I had a new hire that asked to leave 2 hours before the end of her second shift, because she was feeling “saturated” with new information. I left her leave that day, but kept a close eye on training from then on. She didn’t last past two weeks. BIG red flag.

      1. mbs001*

        Yes, employees who get so stressed out under what most of us consider normal workloads are those I’m quick to get rid of . . . they will almost always pan out to be a terrible hire.

  3. Amy*

    Honestly I’d be taking a look at the job requirements and description to make sure the title of ‘receptionist’ fits the bill. Many years ago I worked for an understaffed trucking company and when they tried to hire someone to help me, there were 2-3 temps (temp to perm job) that never came back after a day or two. One was overheard telling someone on the phone that what she was doing was nothing like what she was told she’d be doing. 24 years later, with age and maturity under my belt, I can look back and say she was right.

    1. goddessoftransitory*

      This is very true. Reception and other support positions too often become the odd sock drawer of companies with tons of random duties tossed in because it’s easier than rearranging how everybody else does things.

    2. Miss Chanandler Bong*

      That’s what I was thinking. I would expect a receptionist to be answering the phones, checking people in, etc. Basic computer, phone, and customer service skills.

      When OP said “vast amounts of information” that was a flag to me that maybe this job is more fast paced and requires more knowledge than a typical receptionist position, more like office administrator. In which case, the description should reflect that (and the person should be paid accordingly).

      1. Lirael*

        A medical receptionist role is slightly different from a receptionist role, though. I think it’s a standard part of a medical receptionist job to deal with patient health records (and OP specifically mentions learning the electronic health record system). My impression is that the job involves a lot of acronyms and terminology, which can be a learning curve, but it doesn’t mean it’s an office administrator role that’s mislabeled. It’s just what a medical receptionist is.

        1. Smithy*

          This was a long time ago, but my first job out of undergrad was as a part-time receptionist for a psychology group and that job had all of that – including calling insurance companies around coverage. Inevitably the volume and expanse of what is required can make any job feel overwhelming – but at least for medical receptionists, that is more standard.

          To the point of my job, as this was a small private practice and not part of a larger group or hospital – there was still down time. So it’s not off base to see someone go from a lot of experience at that pace, move into a considerably faster paced or more complex environment and feel really out of the their depth.

        2. Bekah*

          Lirael is correct. The position was for a medical receptionist. They had over 18 years in that same position – other medical offices. I also make it extremely clear that I will remain with them and by their side and lead them through all the processes until they are comfortable and I am confident that they can work independently.

        3. Ellis Bell*

          I think the misunderstanding is due to exactly that; both the company and the new hire have wrongly equated “medical receptionist” with “receptionist”. If you hire a garden variety receptionist into a medical receptionist’s role *and* expect their prior experience to help them get through the training and “vast amounts of information”, you’re going to end up with a very overwhelmed new employee. That’s not to dispute the decision they ultimately made; it clearly wasn’t a great fit on either side.

          1. Ellis Bell*

            Ah I see in your update the receptionist experience was in medical offices, so scratch everything I said!

            1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

              I wonder. I know that the employee was interviewed and was there for two days, but I wonder if her previous jobs were watered down versions. First job after college, “llama groomer 1” in head office. Transferred to satellite office, same title. But not the same work. I went from being the newest of four people in the job to the only one in the job. And the satellite office had more hands on support of llama feeders and llama trainers. It included things I’d never done in my previous job at at all. Did the employee perhaps leave a bigger place with redundant and/or specialized “medical receptionist” positions and is just in over her head after doing parts A, B but not C or D in 18 years.

            1. Storm in a teacup*

              Had she been at her old place a long time? Maybe it was the change in environment she couldn’t handle? Or maybe her old place got in touch about her old job ?

              1. Dido*

                It really doesn’t matter why she’s not cut out for the new job, just that she isn’t. The LW made the right choice not to waste any more time

    3. CTT*

      That’s a possibility, but I do think of a medical office receptionist as being a different role from a standard office receptionist – they are having to deal with patient info and the EMR systems to check people in, make sure info is up to date, deal with patient questions.

    4. Anita Brake*

      Yes, I was thinking this too. I’d have probably given them a day of grace before reacting, and then taken the time to meet with them to instead respond to their concerns, rather than firing them at the first issue. I wouldn’t think that would look very good to your other employees, who might assume they are not safe calling out now, or that the workplace is more stern and harsh than they thought. Plus, you’re now putting more work on those same other employees who were finally getting something off their plates, until you find and hire someone else.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Plus, you’re now putting more work on those same other employees who were finally getting something off their plates, until you find and hire someone else.

        The employee was only on her third day and was in the midst of training. It’s unlikely she had taken anything off anyone else’s plate. Also, keeping someone who needed to take off after day three due to being overwhelmed likely would have consistently added more to their plates than cutting the ties now and getting someone else in who can do that job would.

      2. But what to call me?*

        Not safe calling out is a little much. Never have I worked anywhere where I thought it was safe to call out three days into training because I felt overwhelmed and then to stick to that when my employer told me to come in anyway and offered to help solve the problem. That’s a whole different thing than feeling like it’s not safe to call out in general.

        Instead of worrying about the employer being harsh, I’d definitely be thinking this coworker was very flaky and worrying about how often I would have to cover for her because of future times she felt overwhelmed if the employer hadn’t taken this situation seriously. Though I do think a single “actually no, if you don’t come in for training today we’ll have to let you go” warning would be better than immediately firing her, just in case she somehow didn’t realize how serious a problem this was and might have been willing to do better once she’d known the company wouldn’t put up with it. Or if she wasn’t willing/able to budge, that would have given her a chance to decide the job wouldn’t work for her and quit on her own.

        1. amoeba*

          Yeah, like, of course it’s not “safe” calling out with the explanation “sorry, work is too hard, I’m staying home today”! Like, no, this is not something anybody should do at any workplace, so not sure what the problem is? My boss is, like, super relaxed and nice (and also doesn’t ask at all why I’m calling out when I’m sick), but if I volunteered (!) that information, even he’d be alarmed.

    5. Bekah*

      We have learned that lesson long ago. We go over, in detail, what the responsibilities are and the cross training tasks that would be required. We do this in the interview and again when doing onboarding.

      1. Margaret Cavendish*

        You did the right thing. Maybe they just needed one day to regroup and they would have come back on day 4 and been the best medical receptionist you’ve ever seen for another 18 years. Or maybe they really were overwhelmed, and you’d spend a ton of time handholding and coaching and reassuring them, only to have them continue to suck at the job and you’d have to fire them anyway.

        Either is possible, but which is more likely? And how much time are you willing to sink into finding out? Sounds like you already knew the answer to that! Don’t doubt yourself – your intuition and your experience were bang on.

        1. Polly Hedron*

          I agree that “really were overwhelmed…and you’d have to fire them anyway” is 10 times more likely.

    6. sofar*

      I’m laughing because my first job out of college (while I hunted for my “career job”) was as a receptionist at a mom-and-pop property management company. Job description listed answering phones, filing paperwork, entering payments received from tenants in a database, making copies, and keeping the shared kitchen tidy.

      On day 2, they asked me to start doing accounting work (bookkeeping!). They were surprised I didn’t know how. At no point in the interview/job description did this ever come up. I’m pretty sure the person I replaced just happened to be able to do it all, and they genuinely thought that was normal to hire someone to clean the kitchen AND do bookkeeping.

      1. Elsewise*

        Oof, I had a very similar experience. Tiny nonprofit, had been run by an ED, who was the face of the organization, and a deputy director, who had handled HR, onboarding, fundraising, payroll, social media, media relations, bookkeeping, and about a dozen other things. She left, the ED outsourced payroll and hired me as a fundraiser, and could not grasp why the other things weren’t suddenly being done. It was like watching someone trying to figure out why the laundry fairy suddenly stopped coming when they moved out of their mom’s house.

    7. sometimeswhy*

      yepyep. i know someone who was let go from an office manager position at a machine shop after a couple weeks for not knowing technical information. there hadn’t been any training and there was nothing to reference for that information. the employer just wanted them to magically know what kind of widget to order when told to order widgets on top of the sort of office manager and administrative stuff that’s transferable across industries.

    8. TheGrinchess*

      I was going nice told a woman who had my job previously left for lunch her first day and just… never came back. Sometimes it’s the stuff piled on the plate that’s the problem, not the plate.

    9. flatwhitewalker*

      oy vey. Me too. In a temp summer job for “data entry”, I covered at various points:
      Frontline reception, legal contracts (templated), five-figure invoicing, transport manifests, vehicle maintenance tickets that were so badly backlogged we would have been shut down on the spot if we’d been audited, amateur tech support… oh and filing hundreds of paper records in an attic with no ventilation in the middle of summer. and cleaning the staff kitchen.

  4. goddessoftransitory*

    Cutting bait now was the right decision.

    Not every person is cut out for every job or how job duties are structured. I used to train new hires where I work, and it was 100% clear who was able to handle it and who wasn’t by the end of one or two days. Most of the ones who couldn’t just quit, but we did have to let a couple people go after a week of daily training if they still weren’t grasping the basics.

  5. StressedButOkay*

    It’s the refusal to come in when asked and given the chance to have someone help them work through what was overwhelming. That part really threw me.

    2. Saturday*

      Same here. It made me wonder if the person had already decided not to come in that day and used the idea of organizing notes to sound more engaged with the job. Either way – not good.

      1. tokei*

        Right, it’s such a bizarre thing to admit to that it almost sounds like THAT was the lie, and she thought something job-related would sound better than being sick (or, like, having some kind of other plans that she didn’t inform them of at the hiring stage.) Strange situation!

        1. Pinta*

          Yes, now my mind is spinning tales on what really may have happened that the person felt that the “organizing notes” sounded like a better option in the moment. Humorously, I’m thinking of bizarre medical mishaps that someone might feel awkward telling a new job about. More seriously, I might be worried that the person was the victim of a crime or other unsettling incident.

            1. Pinta*

              Oh definitely, I agree that the lying is a much more likely explanation. I was more commenting on my own nature of inventing increasingly weird and interesting stories to explain odd behavior.

          2. tokei*

            The theory downthread that she only accepted this job as a temporary thing and had another interview lined up elsewhere sounds plausible to me, while we’re wildly speculating!

    3. Learn ALL the things*

      I agree with this. I wouldn’t hold it against a new hire if they came to me and said “I’m feeling a little overwhelmed by all the information I’m getting in training. Can we set aside some time to go over it so I can make sure I understand?” But refusing to come to work because they’re overwhelmed by training feels like an entirely different level.

      1. Bekah*

        This!! I already take the time after each new step to allow for any questions they may have thought of. I told them that I have numerous resources for different learning styles. When they voiced their uncertainty on day 2, I told them I would always be honest with them, that for day 2 they were doing well, and that we would keep doing repetition to make them more comfortable.

  6. Stormfeather*

    Maybe I’m alone in this, but if someone with 18 years of experience in that particular job came in two days and was “doing well” in training and needed a day on the third day because they were overwhelmed, I’d be wondering about the job itself, or training methods.

    Not that that’s 100% it of course, I noticed it just said “in offices” and not medical, and maybe it’s a matter of a medical receptionist just having a much harder time by the nature of the position or whatever. But I’d at least be thinking about the specific job and taking a look at it/the training.

    At the very least I’d want to talk to the person and see what they had to say about it.

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I read it as other medical offices despite it not explicitly saying “medical” but even in that case I think there are probably lots of explanations for why this job might be so different, e.g. has she worked in smaller offices before that had fewer patients, were patients scheduled differently at the past office and it’s hard getting a hang of how they schedule at this one, did she use a completely different software at previous jobs, is she used to working primarily by phone and everyone at this clinic emails appointment requests, etc. It could be none of those, it could be all of them, but I think most of us know from our own experiences as patients that no two clinics are going to be the same.

      1. Bekah*

        That’s a good thought. The new hire had worked with a smaller private medical practice. Our office has 4 physicians, 1 PA, and a walk-in clinic. But again, this is made abundantly clear during the interview and onboarding process. It is also repeatedly reminded of how the training is going to take time, but we realize this and will be there every step of the way. It really was mind boggling for the new hire to refuse to come in when I officially to help.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          I have to wonder if the professional culture was very different too, just because of how weird it is to think you can just opt out of a training day at a new job, and to flatly refuse help. My only theories are 1) possibly she self managed at these smaller places and was allowed to be a law unto herself, or 2) that she already decided the job was not for her, didn’t need the paycheck, and wanted to start on job hunting straight away, or 3) She has no impulse control or professional diplomacy when she feels overwhelmed or feels like she wants to skip work. I can’t come up with a reason that presents her as a sad loss to you. I know you’re worried about what this says about you as a trainer, but it’s really more of a reference check issue about who you’re hiring, or just one of those unforeseeable mismatches.

        2. Lena*

          I’m a medical receptionist/secretary for the last decade. Where I work now is the easiest job I’ve ever had, and my last job was incredibly difficult juggling multiple surgeons and very busy clinics. Someone who had only been working somewhere easy like my current job would be extremely overwhelmed if they went to my old one. Very different. I think you’re right go to down the path of considering terminating this person, it’s a very bad sign of what they’ll be like in the future when stressed!

    3. ThursdaysGeek*

      I was wondering if it was office or offices. Because someone who has been at the same job for a long time – sometimes it is a bit overwhelming to suddenly be so ignorant of absolutely everything. I mean, it should be expected too, but it is hard to go from competence to ignorance, and sometimes people forget that bit.

      1. Eff Walsingham*

        That’s a really good point. I started at a different company in May, and I still miss being “the expert” even though I’m no longer “the newbie”.

    4. Sloanicota*

      Eh, it could just as easily be a mental health/burnout thing – started a new role too quickly and isn’t into it – or they don’t like the supervisor or the vibes or – a hundred different things, but I wouldn’t take them too literally when they say the training was too overwhelming to come into work. I do agree that they probably weren’t going to work out. If it happens more than once I’d change my mind though.

    5. Malarkey01*

      Honestly if it’s not a good fit for WHATEVER reason, fair enough, but time to cut bait. There’s a lot of speculation on these threads about whether the employer is right or wrong, maybe there’s some deep problem at the org…the way this person acted wasn’t normal and frankly someone doing that is going to be a PITA. Don’t prolong it.

    6. TheBunny*

      Same. OP sounds like there might have been a lot of “they will hit the ground running” assumptions being made

      1. Bekah*

        Not in the least. Though that may have been a small hope. Every other receptionist we have working there (4 of them) had no prior receptionist experience. We give them the training they need to succeed. It takes a bit, but we’re very open about it being a lot to learn and there would be extensive training.

    7. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Is it possible that it’s a different kind of medicine that’s making it overwhelming?

      EG: previous experience was in an orthodontics office, but the new job is in something much more serious or life-threatening, where the patients are visibly ill or injured – cancer, prosthetics, etc.

      The overwhelming part has nothing to do with the job tasks, but rather with the overall environment and the nature of the patients they are talking to all day long.

  7. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Honestly I think the red flag here isn’t that she was feeling overwhelmed, it was how she handled feeling overwhelmed. It’s incredibly out of the ordinary to just not show up on your third day; in fact, it’s so out of the ordinary that we’ve had letters here in the past where people have tremendous guilt even calling in sick the first week on a new job even if they genuinely should.

    But instead of coming in (prior to you telling her she should) and addressing that, she just … didn’t. Was there a reason she thought being in every day during her first week was optional?

    1. Former Finance Lady*

      I have complicated feelings about this. Calling out due to overwhelm so early and refusing to come in when asked are definitely red flags. However, the letter’s tone is so aggressive and dismissive that I find myself inadvertently siding with the receptionist anyway. I’m left with questions about culture, which could certainly lead to overwhelm.

      2. Anita Brake*

        That is a good point, Former Finance Lady. I couldn’t really put my finger on why I was siding with the new employee, but I think this is it. The tone seems to “Laa-dee-dah, another one bites the dust.”

        1. mbs001*

          When you are running a business, you can’t take on every individual’s personal issues. You need to hire people who can do the work. It doesn’t help anyone to hire someone who isn’t right for the role and in my years of hiring, I can tell pretty quickly who is going to make it and who isn’t — all by attitude. So yes, if this one isn’t going to work, let them go and hire someone who can do the job.

      3. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I wonder if so much had been thrown at her so fast that she, literally, needed to regroup and organize better to even retain anything more, and being rammed through it roughshod was going to make the situation even worse.

        I know when I ask for time and someone tries to just push me forward anyway, my instinct is to disengage and disconnect.

        1. EchoGirl*

          Yeah, I also cringed a bit at “help them organize their notes”. I’ve had situations before where people tried to help me with something I was overwhelmed by, and in many cases I end up feeling more overwhelmed than when I started because they were guiding me through in a way that didn’t line up with the way I process information. It doesn’t answer the question of whether she should have called out in the first place (and if she should have come up with a better excuse), but once that had happened, I can see why “I’ll help you do it” didn’t exactly make the proposition of coming in any more enticing. It would be like having someone “organize” your house by putting everything where they think it should go — even if the house was messy before, you’re not likely to appreciate having it “organized” when you don’t know where anything is and all your automatic processes are messed up. (Pretty sure I ripped that scenario from some advice column or other, so while most people wouldn’t do this, there are people who would do this and genuinely think they’re helping.)

          If OP were to encounter this situation again in the future (although it seems unlikely given how odd and specific of a situation it is), I would say to offer them some time to organize their notes at the workplace and to make the offer of help clearly optional, rather than potentially implying that they’re going to be “helped” whether they like it or not.

      4. Bekah*

        I work so hard to make sure they feel comfortable and take the time to check in with them multiple times throughout the day to see if they have questions, if they want me to review something, etc. We have have 4 other employees that work the same position that have had the same training and have been there for 2+ years. And the clinic we work for has the best physicians that truly appreciate the employees.

        2. Tangerine steak*

          You obviously see firing her as the right step. Personally I’m not a fan of the one misstep firing approach – but I come from a very different employment culture.

          It may be that she felt comfortable to say what she needed, and that was a day to go over the stuff that she’d been trained in to regroup so she could come back clear on what she’d understood and what she needed training on. It may very well be she’s kicking herself for interpreting your assurances of support through the training process cause when she flagged her need you fired her.

          One of my hobbies comes with a hierarchy. I learnt quickly to ignore calls from the leaders to tell them why things aren’t working/ what we need to do better. I try once – then I just float along and play dumb – cause I know that what they mean by being supportive isn’t what I want in terms of support. And since it’s a hobby I can just do that.

          1. Tio*

            If you call your boss to tell them you’re overwhelmed, and they tell you that staying home is not an option but you can come in and spend extra time with them discussing and training, the boss is being very clear about what they can provide for you. That was the point where you go “Ok, the thing I am asking for is not an option. I must pivot.” This receptionist did not. She wasn’t fired for requesting more support – she was fired for refusing to come into work and use the support offered. Being offered support does not mean that it is going to be exactly the way you specifically want it and it definitely sounds like they were upfront on what they could provide.

      5. RagingADHD*

        It seems odd to me that it reads that way to you. It reads to me simply as a straightforward summary.

        I don’t think one can assume that the way a manager sums up a problem to a third party reflects the way they routinely interact with their employees. “Get advice from a disinterested person” communication mode is entirely different from “Have managerial conversations with a struggling employee” mode.

        I don’t think offering to help the new hire organize their notes, answer questions one-on-one, and (as mentioned in replies) sit with them while they practice, point to an aggressive or dismissive attitude.

        1. Saturday*

          Yeah, I didn’t get aggressive or dismissive from the letter at all. If LW was dismissive, would she still be thinking about their decision and wondering if it was the right one? I doubt it.

        2. Mentally Spicy*

          I find this all the time, as someone who has ADHD with a side order of autism. I know I am incredibly bad at spotting subtext but I am always blown away by people who seem to be seeing subtext where there just isn’t any.

          1. RagingADHD*

            Granted, in some contexts it is necessary to overtly signal warmth and try to put people at ease, so lacking that type of language can come across as dismissive or cold. But that would be the “managerial conversation mode.”

      6. Boof*

        I’m going to say this is probably medical culture – professional communications are brusk and to the point. It’s out of necessity because you have to do 100s of communciations throughout the day, you want it to be efficient – meaning both precise and brief.
        LWs tone seemed perfectly ok for me in this letter! I’m not sure what you think would make it better?

        1. The Prettiest Curse*

          Yes, medical communication is exactly like this – I found it difficult to get used to at first when I was in a role that sometimes involved working with nurses. Then I realised they were abrupt because they often need to get information fast or someone might die. But since the new hire had previously worked in the field, they would presumably be familiar with communication norms.

      7. AnonForThis*

        I get where you’re coming from, Former Finance Lady. Something about this situation had the unfortunate side effect of reminding me of someone who’s training style is to provide more information about the peripherals than the need to know and would absolutely insist on “helping” you sort through your notes just to show you how superior they are.

        I’m not saying the LW is like that, I’m sure they’re not. But after encountering one person like that I more than understand the compulsion to run to avoid it again. That said, I agree with those who’ve said the receptionist didn’t handle this well.

      9. LaminarFlow*

        Same. I work in tech, and there’s a huge learning curve/long onboard. I used to do onboarding for one of my teams, and some of the new hires were REALLY overwhelmed by all of it, and that’s life! One man I onboarded was super stressed because of some heavy things in his personal life. He clearly wanted to present himself as ready & eager, but he was just a mess. I asked him to go for a walk around the block with me, and he just….broke. I gave him some time & space to be alone, and told him to take the day off if he wanted, and message me later to figure things out. We are now on partner teams, and he’s great.

        I get that LW has seen enough flakes to identify the behavior early on, but the tone is pretty dismissive.

    2. Hroethvitnir*

      I agree. I read the title and was like “yikes”, but calling out and refusing to come in is wild.

      I do unserstand Former Finance Lady’s reservations here though. It certainly could be an “everyone is wrong” situation.

  8. Chairman of the Bored*

    Unless they had a rare and desirable skill set or were otherwise *very* difficult to replace I would have made the same call.

    If this person was overwhelmed due to an outside emergency it’s incumbent on them to explain what’s going on, at least in a general way. Don’t do that and people will reasonably assume that you’re flighty.

    I can teach somebody how to operate a records program or process billing or whatever. I can’t teach a person how to reliably show up with their shit together.

  9. JPB Gerald*

    Yeah, if you hadn’t offered to train them additionally I might say it was harsh but some jobs require this ability to proccess a lot, quickly, as a skillset, and so long as you’re clear with applicants and so forth, yeah.

    I wonder if this person was able to answer interview questions well because with that much experience they can probably pull a million “tell me about a time when” answers out of a hat.

  10. Katydid*

    I used to train people to be medical receptionists and some people who had worked in other places would get completely overwhelmed learning to work with the EHR system and what it required. Unfortunately, we did run into people crying in the bathroom sometimes. We never held that against them though. Our training was usually at least a week long, with a large manual that they got to keep, so it was pretty comprehensive and we hoped by the end they were comfortable. But some people couldn’t adapt.

    1. Goldenrod*

      Crying in the bathroom – hey, it happens. We’re all human. Informing your employer that you will be staying home on day 3 to organize your notes – big no!

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Medical administration is a tough gig, even being well-trained in a good office. Crying is a response but someone crying in the bathroom is still in the game – just opting out day three says a lot about their ability to hang in when things are tough, confusing, overwhelming, etc.

    3. Nightengale*

      I sooooo miss the days of manuals for EHRs. I learn so much better with a book that stands still and can be consulted later than a person training me in real time. The last EHR I trained on, I ended up bringing in a separate computer to take notes about what the trainers were saying so I would have a written reference.

      1. Bekah*

        And I totally understand people have different learning styles. I have actually created a manual for the EHR and for the additional procedures our clinic enforces. The new-hire was aware of this.

  11. KT*

    Something feels off here.

    If someone has 18 years of experience and then is overwhelmed to the point of needing to gather themselves before returning three days in…maybe the office culture needs to be looked at. And the “being burned one too many times” is also a bit of a red flag to me too. I would be curious to know what the circumstances were behind those issues too.

    3. JFC*

      I agree. I would be less surprised if this was someone with little experience or who hadn’t done this type of work before. Even if they had been in an office that was slower paced and with different systems, it seems like they’d be able to grasp the basics and not be so overwhelmed.

      The “being burned one too many times” reads to me like they’ve had a lot of turnover, perhaps after other employees have also had short stints. If this is a pattern, it’s on the management to investigate and figure out what’s going on and not write everyone off as a bad fit.

    4. Butterfly Counter*

      As someone who was a clerk in a hospital, not specifically a medical receptionist, but whose duties were to answer the phone and provide support in my department, I wonder about this, too.

      It was only my second job at the age of 17 and included figuring out the filing system, reception, a typewriter (!), medical jargon, doctors’ expectations, how to use a fax machine, transporting patients, doing EKGs, and figuring out the rhythms and personalities of the department, all with minimal training, I am feeling for the receptionist. I know I left the first day with a stack of post its to give to the evening clerk of all of the things I hadn’t done because I couldn’t figure them out on my own. Transitioning into a medical setting can be very different than other settings.

      Unlike this receptionist, I would have not been described as “doing well.” I didn’t ask for time off, but that was due to my own immaturity to know it might have been an option. Instead, I cried at work for the first two months I was there because no one ever trained me and it took me that long to figure things out myself. I ended up staying in that job as one of that department’s best clerks for over four years. (I also wrote up a training manual when I left.)

      So I think OP acted too quickly. Medical reception is its own beast and I can very much understand how overwhelming it can be. Let a person take a day! You can fire them the next day or the day after if they don’t have the work ethic you like, especially if they’ve actually been doing well at first.

      1. Goldenrod*

        But you were only 17, not someone claiming 18 years of experience. Also, you came in!!! You cried and were overwhelmed, but you showed up!

        Honestly, I think your situation was entirely different. (And taking a day off on day 3 is not an option!)

        I would have talked to the person first, though, mostly just to get more of a sense of what was really going on. And out of curiosity!

        2. Tangerine steak*

          How is it better for someone to cry every day at work for 2 months rather than take a day to get on top of things?

      2. mbs001*

        Nope. Calling out due to being overwhelmed on day 3 is inexcusable. Period. Good thing to cut the person loose so they can find a job with no stress.

    5. Elbe*

      I agree that this is something that would be worth some thought. The LW should try to understand if there’s anything unusual about what they are asking for in that role.

      But there are also a lot of roles that require skills that are just very difficult to screen for in an interview. Factoring in many moving parts and variables when making decisions, especially, is a skill that is hard to suss out in an interview. I think it’s pretty common for some people to just not be cut out for the job, or to not enjoy it. It’s odd here since the new hire has so much experience, though.

    6. RagingADHD*

      I did a stint in the corporate offices of a healthcare company, and hiring front desk for a clinic is *hard,* partly because of the speed of changes / upgrades in technology and the way of working. There is an entire job category now of “transformation specialist” in healthcare because it is so hard for small practices to transition into larger groups or get up to speed with new technology. Our parent company was trying to onboard practices that were still faxing records and doing paper patient files, into the latest iteration of ERM system, as well as bring them into a scheduling system that integrated online appointment requests with appointments made live on the phone, when some of these practices had never had anything more sophisticated than a static page website with contact information.

      It’s entirely possible that this new hire worked for 18 years in a small practice that was completely behind the times. Having to catch up on 10 or 15 years of tech advancement in a week or 2 is a big ask. But at the same time, someone with skills that are 10-15 years out of date may have inadvertently misrepresented their skill set because they literally don’t know what they are missing.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I think this is a great set of points, and my work experience supports this. I worked at two different medical offices while they moved from paper records to EHR, and both caused a wave of retirements and job shifting as it became obvious that some skills were mismatched with these new tools. I’m at a non-medical office now with KINDA up-to-date digital tools, but I know if I moved to another company doing exactly my same job but with folks who used more tech it would be a huge adjustment – we have a main branch that keeps us in the loop of new tech/processes even if we don’t get on board and if I didn’t have that, I really wouldn’t know what I didn’t know.

        1. RagingADHD*

          Even earlier generations of ERM are a whole different animal. You see this in all kinds of software.

          I’m trying to learn Jira right now, and about three-quarters of the online tutorials I find are meaningless because they refer to controls that are in an older version or a different level of install, or to functions I don’t have access to due to my security level.

      2. anon for this*

        Interesting. We hired for a position in our academic-adjacent dept at an R1 university — think tutorial center coordinator, advisor, career counselor, that kind of thing. Hired someone who did very well in the interview, had great references. Had come from a smaller and much much less well-resourced school — most notably, very thin on online systems for managing functions like student records, advising reports, and so on. They were using a lot of paper.

        As we discovered, that added tremendously to the learning curve — because this person had not ever used shared drives, only very basic presentation software, etc etc. It added a lot of time to the person’s training. (Additionally, they were dealing with very stressful family issues as well.) They have worked out quite well, but no one expected to have to sit down and show someone at that level how to copy google docs from one drive to another. It was a lot of extra work, and often frustrating for both the new hire and the rest of us.

        Why’d we keep them on? It was at the start of college and universities reopening after lockdown, and suddenly employees had a lot of options. (We had fewer applications than usual, fewer stellar applications, and people noping out as they were offered other jobs right up until the offer stage). And also, dept leadership felt that it was an equity issue to fire people who didn’t have certain skills and experience because their previous employers were not blessed with the budgets we saw as minimal. We’ve seen similar, though not so extreme, from other hires who didn’t have the middle class, professional background most of our staff have. Our dept and institution was a step up, professionally and financially, for these folks.

    7. Generic Name*

      I interviewed someone who had over 20 years of experience, and just did not come off all that knowledgeable in his interview. He even admitted that an agency had rejected a report that he had written (this happens very rarely and only when the work product is truly terrible) and even sounded argumentative about it. His resume showed that he moved on from all of his roles after a year or two. So instead of 20+ years of experience with increasing responsibility, he had had a series of basically identical jobs over the span of 20 years (his current job title was below what I would expect if he had advanced in his career at all). So this receptionist may have many short term stays rather than 18 years of career advancement

      1. Paint N Drip*

        Oof, so he had 20 years of 2 years max of experience? That’s a rough resume.

        Not all medical offices are the same, and of course people are allowed to have things going on in their personal lives that affects work (moving locations so forced to move jobs, choosing to stay at a low-energy job so you can take care of your ailing parent, whatever) but so many medical offices A) move quickly and B) love internal hires so someone staying at essentially entry-level their whole applicable career is a yellow flag to me if I were hiring

    8. Roland*

      But this probably wasn’t the only person to ever onboard at this job. The fact that this job seemed to be an outlier for her doesn’t override that the employee was an outlier for that office.

      1. Nah*

        but OP admits that they’ve been “burned” multiple times by this same issue, so apparently not an outlier for workers to get overwhelmed and unable to succeed in their environment!

        1. fhqwhgads*

          I didn’t think they meant they’ve been burned by someone getting overwhelmed in 3 days, but rather they’ve been burned by not firing someone who very quickly showed they probably were gonna get fired and instead letting it drag out.

  12. Best Coke Ever*

    It sounds like they didn’t really want the job – if she had been working elsewhere for 18 years, I’m sure she knows you dont’ call out “overwhelmed” esp on your third day!

    I wonder if she was maybe interviewing multiple places and another job came through after yours started.

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      This is what I suspect too. She’s accepted the job with OP but continued applying elsewhere (or already had other applications on the go) and got an interview for the day she was “overwhelmed”…

  13. H.Regalis*

    I think you did the right thing to cut bait. Like others have said, it’s not that they were overwhelmed—I think that happens to everyone at new jobs—but how they handled it. They’re not reliable and they’re going to bail/screw things up because they don’t have their shit together and can’t handle the job.

    I know I’m being biased here because I have a horrible (for a lot of reasons) ex-friend who does stuff like this, but OMFG that is so high maintenance, self-centered, and precious. UGH.

  14. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

    I’m reminded of a previous company where two employees showed up for four days, then called in sick for a few days, and then never came back and never called again. I figured that another company where they had interviewed (and whose job they preferred over our job) called them for an additional interview, and the two employees wound up taking the other jobs. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that this receptionist called out on the third day because she was offered a job elsewhere and decided to take it.

    1. Petty Patty*

      Or, was offered a new job, and day three at this job was day one at the new job, and she wanted to try it out to compare which she thought was better.

  15. Skippy*

    This is pretty short-term, but if “getting her notes organized” counts as work, I would not be interested in paying her for 2 days work + 1dat “wfh” + 1 day to come in and be asked WTAF?

    1. Sneaky Squirrel*

      It’s possible they charged it against their PTO which I think would still be legal as they’re still paying by the hour, but I had that question too. Especially because it’s unlikely that someone 3 days into a role has much for PTO.

      In the US, a medical receptionist position would typically be a non-exempt role. If the receptionist is non-exempt, then I assume that they would they need to be paid for that time spent getting notes together. I’d be pretty ready to fire a new employee who disregarded my suggestion to come in to offer help and instead made me end up having to pay for their work from home against my direction.

      1. mbs001*

        Many firms don’t give PTO until after a probationary period — in my firm’s case it’s 3 months.

  16. George*

    This firing was not reasonable, as others have said that the EHR system is complex and different from other systems. I deal most in retail payment systems, and I know that each store has a different payment system, return policy, and operating procedures. As a retail manager, I expect that I will have to train new employees on that system even if they have previous retail experience because each one is nuanced. Payment systems are simple one you train on them, and then proceed to process dozens of transactions per day. EHR systems sound much more complicated and thus take longer to train on, but it can seem overwhelming at first. I think you should at least give LW a few weeks longer to be sure; if it had been two months or a month and A receptionist wasn’t getting the EHS a key part of the job, then firing may be necessary. It took me a couple weeks to learn the nuances of my current job. OP is or works for a terrible employer if they don’t give enough time to get trained to see if they’re a fit. LW has lost income and time taking a job that would fire an employee at the first sign of struggle, and now she will have to look for a new one in the same field with a bad reference and a job that will come up in future interviews. Everything is harder on a new system during training because it’s new. After a couple of days I can process transactions in my sleep. The training period does cost the employer more, but that is the point the’yre learning. Training is a poor indication of Job performance good or bad. I feel bad for LW and the way OP has treated them.

    1. Bella Ridley*

      The training itself is a red herring compared to the attitude. If someone is struggling with training and refuse point-blank to come into the office to be assisted with it, I would not continue to employ them.

      Also you seem to have confused the OP (original poster), who is the same as the LW (letter writer), and their employee.

    2. Learn ALL the things*

      I don’t think anybody is judging the receptionist for feeling overwhelmed. It’s the refusal to come to work and talk with someone to work through the overwhelming tasks that makes this a fireable offense. It’s normal to feel overwhelmed in a new job, it’s not normal to refuse to come to work in your first week because you’re too overwhelmed by the training.

    3. I should really pick a name*

      It sounds like your characterizing this as firing the employee because they didn’t understand the EHR system right away.

      The LW said they’d been doing well so far.

      The firing was about the employee calling out because they were overwhelmed. That’s very unusual behaviour.

      1. Antilles*

        This. The employee was NOT fired because of the system being overwhelming, needing to learn nuances of the payment system, or anything else George is mentioning. The employee was fired for refusing to come in to work.

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I do work with EHR systems on a regular basis. If you are struggling with the training, and your solution is to turn down additional help in favor of staying home, how is that going to help with your struggles?

      1. Kesnit*

        The LW does not say employee was struggling with the system. (In fact, LW says employee was doing fine.) The only thing we know is that employee said they were overwhelmed. Even Alison pointed out it could be for any number of outside reasons – including ones they did not want to share with a new employer.
        Their same-sex spouse said they were filing for divorce. (I include same-sex because revealing that would require them to come out, which they may not feel safe doing.)
        They were diagnosed with cancer.
        A close family member was diagnosed with cancer.

    5. Elbe*

      I agree with the other responses. It’s the attitude that is the issue. It’s normal to feel overwhelmed during training. It’s not normal to unapologetically call in on your third day with a flimsy excuse and then refuse help when your employer pushes back. There is something off here.

      If it were me, I would have tried to have one more conversation with her before firing her, but I don’t blame them for doing what they did. This is a ton of red flags. You also have to keep in mind that poor employee performance affects everyone in the office. It costs the employer money, but it also costs the other employees time and effort when they’re training her, fixing her mistakes, and doing work that she can’t or won’t.

    6. Dinwar*

      “I think you should at least give LW a few weeks longer to be sure…”

      The issue isn’t that the LW didn’t give the new hire a chance. The issue is that the new hire didn’t give the LW a chance. The new hire is the one who refused to show up, which precludes any potential to learn any new system. The NEW HIRE is the one who gave up, not the person who wrote the letter.

      How, precisely, do you expect someone to learn a proprietary and complex system without interacting with it? I don’t care how many notes you take, reviewing notes is not going to cut it as training if the system is as complex as you say.

    7. Slimboy Fat*

      The new hire wasn’t fired because they weren’t picking things up right away. The new hire was terminated because of how they acted. I don’t really see how the letter could have made that any clearer. The OP (who is NOT the new hire) urged the new hire to come in on Day 3 anyway so they could all go over the new hire’s concerns, answer questions, *get more training* (you know, so the new hire wouldn’t feel as overwhelmed by the electronic medical record system), etc? But the new hire decided to torch their own chances with this gig for their own reasons. So being fired was not a surprise outcome and I really can’t blame the OP’s boss for it. It’s a medical receptionist role. Whether the person you hired is brand new at that specific role or not, you need someone who won’t fold under the pressure (trust me, commenters here know when they’ve been to a medical office where the front staff are …less than stellar).

    8. Unkempt Flatware*

      “Training is a poor indication of Job performance good or bad.” I do not understand what you mean here. How well someone is trained doesn’t impact their job performance? Their actions during training don’t impact job performance, even if the action was bad? I don’t understand.

    10. mbs001*

      The firing was not only reasonable it was the only logical choice. This person told them early on they weren’t reliable. You don’t call out on day 3 or 4 or 5 period! Some jobs may be able to coddle these workers but many can not and need to cut bait and find someone who is suited to the role.

  17. queueueue*

    While I’m sympathetic to the view of “check your processes/training”, I also expect someone who’s been in the workforce for 18 years to have a better sense of professional norms. Openly defying a reasonable request by the manager on Day 3? Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were headaches dodged on this one.

    1. Sneaky Squirrel*

      This is where I land. I originally missed that this receptionist had 18 years of experience and had pictured someone fresh out of school with a first or second job.

  18. Birb*

    Honestly, it’s weird enough (especially considering they declined help with organizing the notes) that I’d assume they wanted to call out for another reason and just used that as an excuse.

    1. Elbe*

      I tend to agree. If this was really their reason, then that’s a red flag. If it was an excuse, then it is still a red flag because what adult can’t come up with a more plausible, professional reason!?! Faking food poisoning isn’t that hard.

  19. Anita Brake*

    That is a good point, Former Finance Lady. I couldn’t really put my finger on why I was siding with the new employee, but I think this is it. The tone seems to “Laa-dee-dah, another one bites the dust.”

  20. Elsa*

    I’ve often given additional chances to employees who display red flags early on, and I always, always end up regretting it. Someone who is unreliable and high maintenance on day 3 is only going to get worse, and the more entrenched they are in the workplace the more destructive their ultimate implosion will be. Good move!

    2. Katydid*

      I agree, I had a colleague who was late on her FIRST day! And then the next day, instead of recalibrating her drive time because she had a long commute, she was still like 10 mins late. Things did not improve from there and she was eventually fired.

  21. Bekah*

    Lirael is correct. The position was for a medical receptionist. They had over 18 years in that same position – other medical offices. I also make it extremely clear that I will remain with them and by their side and lead them through all the processes until they are comfortable and I am confident that they can work independently.

  22. Person Replying*

    Assuming the new hire is hourly, even if her story were true and after a day of reviewing her notes she was good to go – I would consider this to clearly be working off the clock and wouldn’t allow this. If she’s reviewing notes, she should be doing that onsite, paid.

    1. Bekah*

      Our thoughts exactly. We don’t offer WFH. Come to work and we can take the time to go over notes and the manual we have.

  23. Sneaky Squirrel*

    While I have reservations on firing anyone on day 3, I think LW made a reasonable call here. Unless LW missed some glaringly obvious observations about the receptionist being overwhelmed, it doesn’t sound like the receptionist tried really hard to voice their concerns before calling out. The receptionist had 18 years of experience which is enough time to know that there should have been an in person discussion first to allow LW to help. If the receptionist is calling out on day 3 because they’re overwhelmed, it’s reasonable to be concerned that the receptionist will not be a reliable employee anytime the situation becomes too overwhelming.

    1. juliebulie*

      It doesn’t even make sense that she wants to “review notes” at home. I’ve been overwhelmed with work stuff before, but retreating to my fortress of solitude wouldn’t help. She needs to be where people can show her how to do things.

      1. Coverage Associate*

        Yeah, and OP offered to go over the notes together and seems like OP would give the hire time alone during the work day to organize the notes.

        It can’t happen at every job, but a good training schedule I have experienced is 45 minute training followed by a break to rest and organize my notes.

      2. Nightengale*

        You know, I can sort of see that. I have the sort of neurodivergence where I learn best by reading. I don’t learn well by watching someone do things or doing them myself or having someone tell me what to do. I have almost no visual memory and especially struggle with computer programs that use icons more than words. I felt completely untrained on an EHR where the method was to sit next to me and coach me through doing things. But I didn’t have written down directions of how to do them. I used that program for almost a year and never felt like I knew what I was doing.

        The next EHR, I brought in a separate computer to the training sessions and typed out the directions so I could refer back to them later. After a few weeks, I didn’t need to follow my notes anymore because I had built up the memory of what functions are under which menu and what icon to click first. But at first I had to have it written down step by step, in words.

        And people who are used to teaching by coaching “at the elbow” support or by demonstrating often don’t take it well when I ask for written directions or insist on taking the time I need to write down my own directions. I had the same problem in dance class where I was supposed to learn by watching or doing and nothing made sense until I finally got someone to unearth a 50 year old book that explained the concepts without moving around at the same time. The book made the teacher’s demonstrations make sense.

        So while I don’t think the employee handled this well at all, I certainly empathize with needing time on my own to put written materials together.

  24. Blue Pen*

    Personally and on a human level, I would want to know what went so wrong for this person as to run away like this. But realistically, and I suppose practically, I would also be alarmed that someone would respond in this way to two days of basic training.

    Either way, I hope that person is OK. And honestly, it happens; not everyone is a fit for everything. I remember going through training at CVS as a teenager, feeling completely overwhelmed, and just never showed up the next day. I’m not excusing or condoning that, but that’s what I did and at the time, it felt like the only thing I could do.

  25. Bunch Harmon*

    This reminds me of someone I had to train a long time ago when I was still in retail. She had been laid off from a department store after 20+ years. She had decades of experience. It took me a full day to teach her the very basic register functions (which should have taken 1-2 hours). She complained that she didn’t have any of the training materials in writing, while she was still holding the training packet I had given her. When we decided to take a break from register work, I asked her set up an endcap. I gave her the diagram, there was a box of hooks right next to the shelf, and then I took a quick bathroom break. When I came back, she was bending paper clips to try to hold up the product. My boss fired her the next day. We don’t know how she kept her previous job for so long, but realized that her lay off was just an excuse to push her out. I wonder if this receptionist with 18 years experience was in a similar situation.

    1. Elbe*

      I think that this is an excellent example of why letting poor performers go can sometimes be a kindness. Try to coach and train someone for a reasonable amount of time and, if it doesn’t work, just let them go. The worst case scenario is that they are now set up for failure when they’re older, have more responsibilities, and have a harder time changing industries. Her previous job likely did her a disservice in the long run.

        1. Elbe*

          True, but it’s 20 years and then a struggle from then on out. If she had been let go at the beginning, she may have found a 40 year career where she could succeed and advance.

        2. RagingADHD*

          It is a whole lot easier to find a new job to make rent when you’re 25 than when you’re 45. They could have found something that was a better fit that would let them advance, rather than winding up unemployable in what are supposed to be your prime earning years.

    2. Coverage Associate*

      I think there are lots of stories of people who do fine in familiar environments but struggle in new ones. Think of the stories here about secretaries who insisted on using typewriters instead of computers. Some jobs can accommodate such quirks. (Typewriters probably not in 2024, but in the 1990s, yes.)

      I tend to stick with the basic functions of the technology I use at work because while the bells and whistles could make certain projects go faster, they are not central to my role.

  26. MI Dawn*

    In the late 1990s, I started a new job and worked with a person who was terrified of computers. While understandable, the job was totally computer-based. They did all 6 weeks of training then quit on the last day before they had to go into their real position. I was amazed they had the guts, but not really surprised – I’d had to coach them on how to turn on the computer nearly every day.

  27. Seashell*

    My guesses would be either (1) this person either had a pre-existing mental health problem that causes them to be easily overwhelmed or (2) they were making up an excuse that wouldn’t require a visit to the doctor or to miss more than one day due to be contagious so they could go interview for another (better?) job.

    1. mbs001*

      Sorry but as an employer, when I’m hiring for a position which involves some stress, I’m not going to pussyfoot around an employee who gets easily overwhelmed. There are no accommodations that can be made that would be reasonable to the employer. Some people are suited for higher-stress jobs, others aren’t. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. If the fit isn’t right, cut loose.

  28. Coverage Associate*

    Taking OP’s follow up comments at their word, I find it odd that a proven training program would need a day to organize notes. I am bad at note taking, especially if someone else is going to need them, but organizing my personal notes is quick.

    I am going with something else being in play than anything at this job.

  30. el l*

    As with other letters we’ve had recently:

    It’s not that you feel this way (overwhelmed) that’s the problem. Everyone does. It’s the intensity of behavior from it. That’s the problem.

    Because calling in for a mental health day after 2 days is…pretty intense.

  31. Carls*

    I know we don’t have details about the timing of these letters, but in light of how I’ve felt this week, if a new employee called me on Wednesday after the election and said they needed a day to ‘regroup’ I would be understanding. If she had been doing well her first two days and showed no other red flags, it seems likely that *something* else was going on, and like Alison, I’d want to dig deeper. I don’t think the employee handled it the well, but perhaps she was worried if she shared the real reason for needing a day (be it election recovery or other personal issues) she’d be unfairly judged.

    1. DrSalty*

      But if you’re going to lie, why pick this one? Just say you’re physically ill. It doesn’t make sense and it’s a huge red flag.

      1. Kevin Sours*

        You don’t even have to say *that*. Honest but vague. “I know it’s an inconvenience but I really don’t feel well today”. If that’s not enough “The way I’m feeling, I don’t think I’ll be able to focus today if I came in, I’ll be in tomorrow”.

      2. Ollia*

        To be fair to the fired receptionist, they also had 18 years of internalizing their previous employers’ rules. Some employers absolutely are not reasonable about childcare falling through or even health issues. Did OP cover that in their training? Or would the receptionist be afraid their job would be on the line if they had a sick child, for example? (First weeks at new jobs are terrible for all kinds of life system failures.)

        1. mbs001*

          I have found that most employers are sympathetic about childcare falling through or health issues — as long as they aren’t happening too often. Employees should not expect their employer to accommodate these absences repeatedly and should not be surprised when they replace you with someone who can reliable show up at work.

        2. Yours Sincerely, Raymond Holt*

          It’s really hard to imagine any employer *not* being sympathetic about childcare or sickness but being sympathetic to an employee feeling too overwhelmed by the job to come into work.

    2. RagingADHD*

      It usually takes a couple of months for letters to get through the queue to be answered. There’s no reason to think it was this week.

      The employee specifically said they were overwhelmed with the training and needed to organize their notes. If they were overwhelmed with life, why would they make up such as specific, weird lie?

      “I am overwhelmed and sad about national events, but instead I’ll tell my brand new manager that I cannot cope with the basics of my new job,” is a really counterproductive idea.

      1. Kesnit*

        Employee did not say they were overwhelmed with the job. Employee said they were overwhelmed. That could be anything – including something not related to the job.

        1. Kevin Sours*

          Sure, maybe they had something going on that impacted them. But saying they were going to “take the day to get their notes together” implies it was work related. And they didn’t say anything to the contrary when OP responded along those lines. They didn’t provide any indication that there was something else going on a tall.

          Calling out your third day of work is a big deal. Things happen and sometimes you (and your boss) needs to roll with it. But communicating that you understand its a big deal and that you have a valid reason is part of that.

  32. Ciela*

    oooo, I quit a job after 2 days because there was a decided lack of training!

    I was 17, still in high school, didn’t really need the money, because parents. I was hired as a secretary / admin assistant. My boss was AWOL both days I worked. Day One, she left me a list of tasks. Some things were easy, make coffee for the waiting room, make sure all bathrooms have TP. But then other tasks, I had no idea what to do! So that evening, I left her a note, “I did as much as I could, but I do not know what most of these tasks are.” Day Two, she just added more tasks by writing on the bottom of the list from Day One! No explanation on anything!!! I begged off saying I did not realize how much school work I was going to have that year when I accepted the job.

    1. mbs001*

      Let’s not compare high-school jobs — or maturity — to the real working world. High schoolers are flaky and many can’t be expected to show up, period. We have and should have higher expectations from adult workers — especially those with 20 years of experience.

  33. Maple*

    LW, having just been through the polar opposite of this, count this as a bullet dodged. I just had a medical receptionist let go after *three months* of inability to pick up so much as the barest basics.

    This may not have been the fairest option to the new hire, but it definitely is for the team they’d be joining.

  34. Bopper*

    My daughter worked for a doctor’s office and they had a hard time hiring and retaining the receptionist. I wonder if what used to be two people’s jobs is now one and there is no training except throwing them in the deep end and then they wonder why nobody stays.

  35. fhqwhgads*

    Was the third day of employment Wednesday of this week?
    If not, cutting them loose was the right way to go.
    If it were yesterday, it was still probably the right way to go, but being overwhelmed that particular day makes more sense.

  36. Richard Hershberger*

    The second day of my current job, back in July, several people expressed surprise that I had come back. I think this was a joke, but I was tossed into the role of cleaning up the mess my predecessor had left. (I am now mostly but not entirely caught up.) It would actually have been kind of reasonable for someone to look at this and nope out. But then again, I was hired specifically because I had the experience to deal with stuff like this. Throwing a junior person into the role would have been cruel.

  37. CubeFarmer*

    Sorry, not sorry, but two days into a new position is too soon for a “mental health day.” It’s also the wrong way to handle being overwhelmed when the person training you is asking you to come in so that they can give you additional assistance.

    I wonder if the new hire vastly overstated her responsibilities to get this job, and realized that she was in over her head. We had someone do this a couple of years ago, and he ended up quitting by ghosting us after a few weeks.

  38. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    Their refusal to come in to be helped with the training made the firing reasonable.
    Also, with it probably being an hourly-paid job the OP might otherwise have had to pay them for that day at home sorting out their notes and “regrouping”

    I wonder if their 18 years experience was at very old-fashioned practices that were paper-based rather than EHR, or if they had been allowed to refuse to learn new systems, or to skip parts of the job and do their own sweet thing.

    Another possibility is that they refused to come in because they had a job interview that day, or even wanted to try out another job they had also accepted.

  39. TheBunny*

    I think I mildly disagree with Alison on this.

    Was termination warranted? Hard to know as it was day 3…BUT if the person is that overwhelmed I think it at least warrants asking some questions about the training process.

    OP says the person had to learn a new EHR but that’s OK as they should know enough to figure it out…and I wonder if that’s the only thing they were told to just figure out.

    It’s easy to assume someone with a lot of experience will hit the ground running and not need enough guidance, but it’s a little trickier to make sure the assumption that they will know enough to figure it out have a balance with making it clear it’s OK to have questions.

    Maybe it’s how I’m reading the question, but it doesn’t really seem like part 2, the on top ask questions part, was as present as it should be on a new hires first week.

    1. SJ*

      I disagree! OP says they directly encouraged her to come in the next day and go over it in detail together, I’m not sure what else they could do to support her!

    2. el l*

      Questions are fine. Feeling a little overwhelmed but fundamentally carrying on is also fine. See the actual OP’s notes around here.

      But that’s not what happened here.

      The person didn’t ask questions. Instead, they took a mental health day – after 2 days. Which is…a lot.

  40. CraigT*

    Whoever made the final decision on termination, did exactly the right thing. A person causing problems on their third day of work, will cause problems up until the moment you terminate them. Also, never ever hire a person who calls out of an interview, or shows up late for that interview. They’ve already shown you how they will treat the job if you do hire them.

    1. Clydesdalesncoconuts*

      Should the employer who reschedules interviews or doesn’t hold them on time be held to the same standard?

  41. TheBunny*

    I had a longer response but the internet ate it…

    I think OP needs to take a good look at their onboarding process to be certain that they aren’t at least part of the problem.

    It’s easy to assume someone with 18 years of experience in something doesn’t have questions and will just know things. I’d recommend making sure the next new person isn’t expected to know everything and feel like questions aren’t welcome. It’s easy to miss that new hires have questions when they are seasoned in a field…

    1. Bekah*

      I’m the OP. It’s made abundantly clear that there is a lot to learn, but we are aware that it’s going to take time to have a grasp on everything. We also make it clear that I, as the training manager, will be with them every step of the way. In no way do we expect them to know how different types of appointments are scheduled, what we need to advise patients, etc. We simply need someone who can type, have customer service skills, and willing to learn

  42. Ceanothus*

    I worked as a receptionist in a one-lawyer law office one summer in college — he’d had the same legal secretary for over 20 years, and she had to take a leave of absence/disability. The circumstance wasn’t clear, because she was still there all the time (and I was very young).

    He hired a new legal secretary, great lady, very kind, and on the last day of her first week she sat him down and said “the following tasks that you expect a legal secretary to handle are in fact not things that come standard. These duties are not part of my job description, and if you want them to be part of my job description then we will need to discuss a raise. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense for me to remain in this position. Let me know which option you’ll choose.”

    He chose to let her go, which I think was the wrong choice.

    (She also said “The college student you’ve hired to file has not been able to impose order on your filing system because you don’t have a filing system.” so I love her forever)

    1. Ceanothus*

      Sorry, I meant to add — I think this is the flip side of what the employee in the letter did. If a job is overwhelming and not working out, it makes sense to discuss it, and possibly ultimately choose to leave it. But you have to show up!

  43. BigLawEx*

    Twenty years ago, I would have given her a second chance. Now, someone else can be her second chance. A few years ago, I took an informal survey of my friends on this exact issue, and not one of us ever had a good experience giving an employee a second chance. In every story, someone noticed a red flag early on and overlooked it, tried to coach through it, or let them come back after a call in. It never went favorably.

  44. Mary Lynne*

    I worked in a child care center as a lead teacher/assistant director. My director was out for a week and I was running the place, and I had to bother her on vacation because we had a new teacher that was having problems. She did fine in the interview and teaching interview, but was overwhelmed with the infants crying. In an field that is desperate for staff and my agency especially being so employee-friendly (or conflict avoidant) that we go to truly ridiculous lengths before someone is let go, my boss said, “Wait – she did WHAT?” “The infant lead teacher said she is curled up in a ball in the corner of the room.” “Nope. We are not dealing with this. If she can’t handle infants crying this won’t work out.” Less than a week, the fastest I ever saw someone go from our agency.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      ….why on earth would someone so affected by infants crying even consider a job in a child care center?

  45. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    Had a thought about this. I absolutely think firing her was the right decision because that’s one bizarre reason for calling in by the way.

    But I think the reason for it might be that it’s always hard to go from a job where you know the people, the process, the atmosphere to one where you’re no longer knowledgeable about any of it. She may have been a subject matter expert at her last place and now here she’s having to be trained.

    This is how things work in new jobs of course! But if you’ve been at places with a long tenure generally it’s a skill you can lose. And that can cause panic. Suddenly you wonder why on earth you left the last place where you were known and appreciated.

    Again, I’m not excusing it and I’d definitely be pissed at someone refusing training and deciding they couldn’t handle it.

  46. Bananapants Modiste*

    IMHO, terminating on day 3 is a tad early.
    I’d follow AAM’s recommendation to “talk with them in person the next day (assuming they did come in the next day) and tried to get a better understanding of what was going on.”
    But lacking a good response (or any at all), I’d terminate on day 5 or beginning of the next week.

  47. Esmerelda Margaret Note Spelling*

    I recently had to call out on my third day at a new job because I was on the side of the motorway with a flat tyre, and a vehicle recovery ETA of several hours away. I felt awful about needing to dip into my leave allowance so early, and worried that I’d be seen as Generally Unreliable due to the timing of the thing. Fortunately, my manager was understanding, and I returned the following day to a reassurance that life happens & I wasnt the only person to experience first-week problems.

    Obviously, car troubles are not the same as “feeling overwhelmed”, but either *could* be a recurring problem or could just be someone having an unusually bad day, possibly due to other non-work factors that you’re unaware of. It feels like a shame to implement a “one strike and you’re out” policy without even a conversation to establish whether this is likely to become part of a pattern.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      It wasn’t one strike without a conversation, because when they phoned, the OP asked them to come in.
      If something else was going on in their life, they had the opportunity then to say so. Otherwise without more explanation, it is reasonable to assume they aren’t capable of doing the job, or no longer want to.

  48. Clydesdalesncoconuts*

    The LW indicates this person has worked in other offices for 18 years ( but did not specify the roles were the same) and that they were having to learn a new electronic management system. Depending on what type of a trainer LW is and how much was expected of the employee it is quite possible they were extremely overwhelmed in their new role. However, LW also gave that person an immediate look at what their future with this employer would really look like and its very possible they dodged the bullet of having a horrible boss to work for. Obviously the mental health of their employees is not a priority. Hopefully this person found a better job… maybe they were lying about being overwhelmed and were interviewing for another position they had been hoping to get instead.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Absolutely NO sign that the OP or anyone else there is a horrible boss or disregards mental health.
      Being overwhelmed by training on Day 3 and refusing to come into work to be helped with training shows the employee was not capable of doing the job.
      The firing means both employee and employer can move on quickly.

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      They may well have still been interviewing and took this role just as an emergency job until they got one they really wanted

  49. Lobstermn*

    I am certain that the new employee’s ex-coworkers are already grateful that the drama llama has been let go. What a wild thing to say on Day 3.

    I worked with an entitled guy like this on a temp job once. He refused to take notes during training and demanded that we just show him as many times as it took for him to get it. A wild sense of entitlement. He asked me to be a reference when I got a full time position and left that job.

  50. Cracker eater*

    How long was the new employee at their last job? Last time I changed jobs, about a month in I was really regretting my life choices. I was realizing all the things I would have to learn to do differently and it was overwhelming. I had been at my previous job for six years (the longest in my career) and while I had had to learn things during those years, it was a lot more incremental, vs. all at once in the new job.

    That said, apparently I hid it much better than the employee in the letter. At our six month check-in I mentioned it to my manager (as a thing I had worked through), and he was shocked. He hadn’t detected a whiff of my panic.

  51. Meh.*

    I didn’t get a job after rescheduling an interview because someone I knew got murdered.

    All I’m saying is you don’t necessarily know why they were overwhelmed. It may not have just been the job.

  52. Grumpy Old Tortie*

    I’m a former veterinary practice owner. Cut your losses and move on. These employees never improve and are a huge drain of time, energy, and resources.

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