coworker derails meetings, employer wanted a weekend interview, and more

by Alison Green on November 11, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My coworker constantly derails meetings

I have a coworker, Mary, who does not know how to stay on topic or when to stop talking. It’s like she thinks a meeting is a time to discuss everything and anything tangentially related to a person’s position in our org, and so I have to plan that any meeting with her will run over unless I cut it off.

In meetings I’m leading, I’ve learned to say, “We will need to table that for another time” when she gets off track. But what do I do in meetings where I’m not the one leading? For example: we’re on the same committee for fundraising for an event. That is our job. We meet once a month. Every month, Mary derails the meeting with suggestions for the event, ideas for activities (many of which are absurd, like making vendors wear costumes, etc.). Usually the actual agenda for this meeting is handled in 20 minutes, so the next 40 are dedicated to this coworker and her questions. My boss is the one leading this meeting, and I want to support her in her work but I also want to offer to step up and say, “Do you need help with shutting Mary down?”

It’s not really your place to ask your boss if she wants help shutting Mary down. There are some manager/employee relationships where you could ask that, but they’re very much the exception rather than the rule, and generally if you had one you wouldn’t be asking.

But there are lots of ways where you can nudge your boss in that direction herself. For example, when you’re done with the agenda but Mary starts to go off-topic, you can say, “Before we get too far off-topic, is there anything else on the agenda we need to cover or should we wrap up?” You can also say at the start of the meeting, “I’ve got a hard stop at (time) but I think that’ll be enough for everything we need to cover.” And during the meeting itself, if Mary begins a tangent, you can say, “I think that will take us pretty far off-topic” or “Could we focus on X and Y, which I think are the highest priorities to sort out right now?” (You can’t say that if you’re the most junior person in the room, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.)

Also, if your boss is scheduling one-hour meetings when a half hour would do, you can point that out to her: “We’ve been scheduling these for an hour but typically cover our agenda items in much less time and the second half never seems as productive. Could we experiment with scheduling for 30 minutes and see how that works?”

2. Company wanted me to interview on a weekend for a Monday-Friday job

I am a research scientist currently looking for new roles. One company I applied for called me back to wanting to discuss my resume in detail before potentially scheduling an interview. It was late on a Friday afternoon. I was in a meeting and missed their call. They sent me an email asking me when would be a convenient time for a chat. When I saw the email, I responded saying I would be free Monday. They then emailed me back saying that if I wanted to, they could phone me on Saturday or Sunday.

These are standard 9 to 5 jobs I am applying to, so is wanting to talk on a weekend a red flag that they will have poor work/life boundaries? I am fine working overtime on some occasions but not all the time.

It’s not a red flag screaming at you not to proceed, but it is a sign to gather more information as you do.

It’s possible that this is an indicator that everyone there works horrible hours and work will be constantly bleeding into your evenings and weekends … but it’s just as possible that the person who emailed you works non-standard hours themself, or is about to go on leave and is trying to squeeze in a few interviews before they go, or thinks candidates appreciate interviewing during non-work hours so they don’t have to take time off, or they’re a rare workaholic in a culture of people with better boundaries.

It would be foolish to ignore what this could represent, but at this point you don’t know which of these possibilities is most likely, so your job is to take note of it and ask questions about the culture and typical hours as you progress through their process. It also would be fine to ask during the interview, “I recall you asked about doing our initial interview on the weekend. How often do people on this team work on the weekends?”

3. Talking at work about an emergency gay wedding

I was originally planning to have a wedding next fall. However, due to recent events, my fiancée and I have decided to get married in late November. The reasons are twofold: (1) My fiancée is currently employed by a federal program that the incoming administration is planning to eradicate, and I don’t want her to be left without insurance. (2) We are both women living in a conservative state. The federal ruling on gay marriage has also been named as a possible target in the next four years. This was always our plan if the election went the way it did.

I have a reputation for, let’s say, non-impulsivity at work. Also, I have mentioned that part of the reason we were waiting until next fall was that my only sibling is currently abroad. So this will likely come as a shock to anyone we didn’t share our plans with beforehand.

I like my coworkers; I like my job. The atmosphere is a friendly one, where good news is comfortably shared. I don’t want to vanish for a week and a half and come back with a new last name like it’s a secret, but I’m also not comfortable “bringing up politics” at work.

I was wondering if you could provide a script for how I can tell people I’m going to get married without it seeming like a rushed, secretive caper, and what I should say when people ask why I’m doing it this way? (They have asked.) I want to be able to enjoy the fact that I’m getting married, to share it with the people I see every day, without it being a dirty little secret or political landmine.

The fastest, simplest explanation: “We want to get married while we know we still can.” That’s not bringing politics into work in an inappropriate way; it’s a clear statement of the situation you and many others are in.

If you’re not comfortable with that, you could also just say, “Our plans changed and we decided to do it now!” People may be surprised, but they’re unlikely to be shocked; people move up weddings for logistical reasons all the time. They’re also likely to take their cues from you; if you’re cheerfully matter-of-fact about it, they likely will be too. And you really don’t owe any more explanation than that — I don’t mean that in a chilly way, but at the end of the day these are work colleagues and it’s normal not to get into the level of personal detail that you might share with close friends or family.

And as for announcing it initially — “We’re moving our wedding up! I’ll be out (dates) and when I’m back I’ll be Valentina NewLast Name.”

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

4. My company is not prepared for the overtime change in January

I work for a pretty small company (about 20 employees), all remote workers around the U.S. Most of us are salaried, making around $45,000-$50,000 per year, so the exemption threshold change in July did not affect anyone but the change in January will affect almost everyone.

I asked our HR about this over the summer, and they said that I shouldn’t be working overtime, so it won’t affect anything. But our company does multiple conventions and events every year; it would be a huge logistical change to prevent anyone from working overtime during these. They are easily 50-60 hour weeks under the current set-up. And my understanding of the law is that even if we aren’t working overtime, we’ll need to maintain timesheets.

What should or can I do? Is this worth pushing, or should I just wait until January 1 and see how it plays out?

Background for readers: An increase to the salary level that makes you exempt from overtime is set to take effect on January 1. If it goes through, it would mean that your employer would be required to pay you overtime (time and a half for all hours over 40 that you work in a week) unless you earn at least $58,656 annually — up from the current threshold of $43,888. (Exceptions include teachers, doctors, and lawyers, who are always exempt.)

For now, though, wait and see what happens. A group of states are suing to stop the increase and if a court puts it on hold, the incoming new administration is highly likely to scrap or significantly scale back the whole thing (as they did the last time they were in the White House). On the other hand, if courts don’t stop it, it’s scheduled to go into effect January 1, while the old administration is still in charge, and the new administration is unlikely to be able to roll it back immediately so it’ll be in effect for at least a while.

In other words, it’s pretty up in the air right now, but it’s something to keep an eye on. If we get to December with no signs of it being halted, raise it again at that point. This time you should specifically point out your concern about overtime during conventions and events — and it would be useful to calculate how many hours you worked each week during those events in the past, so that your company has hard numbers to look at.

Related:
what the hell is all this talk of exempt and non-exempt about?

5. You never know what’s happening behind the scenes of a hiring process

I’m a relatively new manager hiring for my third permanent position. I read your blog regularly and I was excited to apply everything I’ve been learning to the hiring process. I’ve been thinking through my requirements vs nice-to-haves, challenging my internal biases, everything. The position was posted a month ago, and I brought in four external people to interview after a phone screening. I was really excited for them and the opportunities they presented for the position. I was planning to be checking references next week and hopefully making an offer shortly after that.

And then on the day of the last two interviews, I got an email from HR that there was an internal candidate who we needed to urgently consider because they will otherwise be laid off next month. My supervisor told me that we pretty much have to hire them unless there are massive red flags, as it is in the agency’s best interest to retain staff. Of course I am happy to help someone keep working and not be laid off, but I also feel for the external candidates.

This radically altered the entire hiring process in a way that none of us could predict, and it was the worst for the external candidates who were now going to be rejected through literally no fault of their own. There is nothing they could have done differently.

I know it is cold comfort for job seekers, but I wanted to share this story to illustrate that when you say “you never know what is happening on the hiring side,” it is really true.

Thanks for illustrating exactly the sort of thing that can be going on behind the scenes that job seekers often don’t have a window into. When you’re agonizing over what happened with a job you thought you were perfect for, keep in mind that things like this can happen and you might never know about it!

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{ 290 comments }

{ 290 comments… read them below }

  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Hi all. We’ve had a recent increase in trolling here, and you can help me by NOT RESPONDING to it. Instead, please flag the comment for me (to do that, reply with a link, which will send your comment to moderation so I’ll see it) and I’ll take care of it. Thank you.

  2. Pink Sprite*

    Dear OP 3 and your fiancée,
    Although your plans have been turned upside down, you’re still getting married! :) :) :)
    Congratulations and best wishes from Michigan!

    1. Bambue*

      If you think it would be easier to give more concrete reasons, citing tax benefits or insurance is a believable reason no one will follow up about

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah, I think there are a few levels of revelation OP could choose, depending on context and who you’re talking to: Level 1, “We just can’t wait to get married! It was becoming a whole thing, and really the only thing that matters is we end up married”, or Level 2, “Fiance’s job is not nailed on for next year, and I want her to have health insurance”, or L3, “Given recent events, we just want to be sure the laws won’t change before we get to it”. Also, congratulations! You’re getting married to the person you love! Don’t let it go by without enjoying every moment.

        1. Jill Swinburne*

          I honestly think that – assuming OP is out at work – most people will put two and two together anyway.

          Wishing you a lifetime of happiness!

          1. Ellie*

            I don’t. There are a lot of ignorant people out there. I think the suggested wording about getting married while you’re sure you still can is the best. However, if OP thinks that will invite a big discussion about scaremongering, etc. and doesn’t want to deal with it, the insurance reason, a distant, dying relative, grandparents getting older and being unable to travel soon, or another relative getting married next year at about the same time will all do as a good excuse. Or you could just start with, ‘We decided to move up the wedding’, it’s possible no-one will even ask.

        2. Cadillac*

          You can also cite the always useful: “Oh, some family stuff, not worth getting into the details but we’re looking forward to [wedding detail topic/slight change of subject]”

        3. AnonInCanada*

          I’m pretty sure that even with the Level 1 answer, most people will come to the conclusion that this was a Level 3 reaction. Unfortunately.

          Congratulations to OP#3, regardless of what’s going on. Let’s hope everything works out.

      2. learnedthehardway*

        I the OP really, really does not want to discuss their reasons that touch on the political, they could always say that a cancellation happened at the venue, and since they’d been planning to get married next year, anyway, they decided to move up their wedding. Imply a discount. Everyone understands money.

        1. Denny O.*

          They shouldn’t say something that is not true. Just say, “Change of plans!” and keep repeating it.

            1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

              I don’t think it’s “fear of offending someone” so much as “fear of being fired, mocked, or otherwise harmed by people that she reasonably expects wish her harm”.

            2. Ellie*

              Little white lies were made for these kind of situations. You don’t owe co-workers the truth regarding intimate details of your life. You don’t even owe close relatives that.

        2. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          100% the LW should do what they’re comfortable with, but it sucks that people have to tiptoe around their rights being taken away for fear of offending someone who voted to take their rights away.

      3. Always Tired*

        This! My sister moved her wedding up from February to August because they realized they would save $6k on insurance that year if they got married. So I got a call out of the blue going “Get ordained. We’re eloping in 2 weeks and you’re officiating.” That money paid for most of the big ceremony they still had in February.

    2. Happily Retired*

      Congratulations to OP #3 and your fiancée from North Carolina! Best wishes to the two of you for a long and happy life together.

    3. BellaStella*

      Best wishes to OP3 and financé too and I agree with the odea that tax purposes can be cited as noted.

    4. Catherine*

      Yes, congratulations! I’m sorry it has to be rushed for such a reason but still a very exciting time to celebrate your love.

    5. DataGirl*

      Congrats OP3! I’m currently in line to get my marriage license so my girlfriend and I can have a shotgun wedding. I am not telling my colleagues before, as some of them voted for the r@pist, but would still expect to be invited.

      1. Abogado Avocado*

        Congratulations #3 from Texas (where we still have some progressives left)! Even though your plans have changed, may you experience much bliss and happiness!

    8. I Have RBF*

      Congratulations, LW #3!

      Back in 2013, when we same sex marriage became legal in California, my now spouse and I got married. We waited until the same day as our DP several years before so we would only have one anniversary. It wasn’t legal in all 50 states yet, so our federal taxes were a mess.

      Yes, part of it was to make sure she had health insurance. I have no regrets.

      1. She’s amazing*

        High five from another California-2013-queer-marriage-for-insurance person! We planned a big wedding for 2015 and had a fun little secret for two years. Basically no one knew except our witnesses and my HR department. Oh and we told some dogs.

        All that is to say: quickie weddings can be great, you can tell or not tell whoever you want, and most of all, congratulations!

    9. Momma Bear*

      I agree – congrats!

      Secondly, you would not be the first or last couple to marry on a different timeline for whatever reason. Maybe someone got a terminal diagnosis. Maybe a job changed. Maybe someone really needed insurance. I’ve gone to weddings to find out that actually the civil ceremony was 6 months ago and if anybody cared, they didn’t say so. So have whatever kind of wedding you want to have now and then follow up with a party if you want to. No one needs to know more than you decided to move the date up if you don’t want to get into it.

    10. Elizabeth West*

      Adding to the congratulations! \0/

      You could always just say “end-of-year financials made November work better.” It’s not a lie, really. The insurance thing is a financial consideration (you don’t have to mention it).

    11. restingbutchface*

      Congratulations OP3! Sending you all the love in the world.

      As for work, don’t forget the cover of romance. You don’t have to share any details but you can also just smile and say, it’s the right time. Most people find other people’s wedding planning very boring and the people you don’t want to get political with are the least likely people to push for details.

      I hope you have people in your life you can celebrate-slash-vent with. I wish you a long and happy marriage!

      1. restingbutchface*

        Also, and I’m saying this gay to gay, you don’t have to justify your wedding to ANYONE. You’re in love. You’re getting married. If it’s not a question a straight couple would be asked, shut that noise down.

    12. Festively Dressed Earl*

      So much this, OP3! Adding congratulations from Florida! (The saner part, at least.) I humbly request that you and your wife make this celebration as joyous as you possibly can, and also have immense amounts of fun on your honeymoon.

      I’m assuming you’re out at work since your coworkers know your wedding plans. Therefore, you don’t have to get into the reasons why you’re moving the date up; just say “the logistics work better” or “I want to add my wife to my insurance.” Simple truth, no chaser, no shame, and no politics. The people who wish you well are going to react like the commentariat is; the people who don’t knew damned well what they were doing when they cast their ballots, and you’re under no obligation to manage their feelings about your life.

      1. restingbutchface*

        “the people who don’t knew damned well what they were doing when they cast their ballots, and you’re under no obligation to manage their feelings about your life.’

        Damn, that is a gorgeous line. No obligation to manage their feelings about your life. I’m stealing that.

  3. GoodNPlenty*

    Re: #5….all sorts of “out of our control” things can happen during the hiring process. I’ve been on both sides. I once lost a government job I was freakishly qualified for because an existing employee 500 miles away decided to take a three step demotion, move and claim the job. The hiring rep called me, apologized and said it was the weirdest thing she’d ever seen.

    Sometimes it has nothing to do with the candidate.

    1. The Prettiest Curse*

      Ugh, how weird and frustrating. At least they told you the reason – it would be even worse to not know and keep wondering what happened.

    2. Happy*

      Three steps or three grades? Three steps doesn’t seem like that much to be shocking. Especially considering the move – the employee could have their own reasons for wanting to move there where the decrease in pay didn’t seem like a bad trade.

      Three grades, however, would be a lot.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          For US Federal Government* jobs, a step is a subdivision of a grade. From the USAjobs website:

          The GS pay schedule has 15 pay grades, from GS-1 (lowest grade) to GS-15 (highest grade). There are 10 steps in each grade. A salary can vary within a pay grade depending on if you’re at step 1 (the starting salary of the pay grade) or step 10 (the maximum salary of the pay grade).

          Going from grade 9 to grade 6 would be a much bigger decrease in salary than going from grade 9 step 7 to grade 9 step 4.

          *State and local governments might use the same grade/step terminology, but I don’t know for sure.

        2. Happy*

          There are 15 pay grades and each pay grade has 10 steps.

          The current table of base pay (there are increases for different locations based on cost of living) is here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2024/GS.pdf

          So e.g. if the employee was a grade 14 step 4 making base pay, they would be getting $115k/year. A decrease of 3 steps would bring them down to $105k/year. But a decrease of 3 grades would bring them down to 68k/year.

          Step increases happen routinely, but grade increases generally don’t so there are also other negative ramifications to going down a grade.

    3. restingbutchface*

      I had a great interview and was expecting a call pretty much immediately. They ghosted me and I told myself a story about what that means about me, my value and the evil, terrible, inhumane company.

      Turns out the hiring manager died suddenly and tragically. Strangely enough, the team were processing that awful news instead of calling me. I cringe at the story I told myself.

      So yes, you never know.

  4. Clementine*

    I often see on LinkedIn about candidates who decide to tell off the company when things go awry, and of course they wouldn’t know that a situation like Letter #5 has happened. I wish I could emphasize how bad an idea that is in almost all cases, because you always want to build bridges, not burn them, and the odds are very high of encountering some of the same people again. Of course people shouldn’t be ghosted, and it’s awful to be disappointed, but really, no good is likely to come of making a thing out of it.

    1. Thinking*

      Thank you. I’ve had a day. A week, really. And your comment is re-reminding how often “no good is likely to come of making a thing out of it” applies in everyday life. Sometime making a thing out of it is exactly what’s needed, along with “the wisdom to know the difference”.

    2. L-squared*

      I think usually when people want to tell people off, its because of a lack of communication and wasting their time. OP doesn’t have to go into all the details, but there is a way to frame that, which is timely, true, and respectful, while also offering feedback.

      Saying something like “An internal candidate emerged later in the process, and as a company we like to promote from within when we can. You had a great interview and I don’t have any improvements for you. Please feel free to add me on LinkedIn and I’d be happy to pass along anything I hear about or make any introductions in my network”

      Most people wouldn’t want to tell off someone like that. But what more likely ends up happening is the company goes radio silent, then sends a generic “we went in another direction” email a few weeks later, which angers people.

      1. Analyst*

        Yeah, you can’t say stuff like that in many places. I can not even imagine with my HR would say if I told a candidate something like that. We are not allowed to give anything resembling a reason why didn’t hire. So, yeah, I send very generic rejections (frankly, I think HR would prefer I not even do that, and just let the automated system do it)

    3. LaminarFlow*

      I’ve been on both sides of this situation, and yes, it’s totally sucky and draining.

      When I was the interviewee, there were 2 people who were strongly advocating for me to be hired. One of them kindly reached out and gave me some insight that was not overstepping company policy. She also forwarded my resume to 3 other hiring managers who would have similar roles opening in the next few months. I kept in touch with her, and eventually landed a role with one of the other hiring managers. That was early in my career, and her grace and honesty (without overstepping company rules/policies/internal politics) set the tone for how I have handled similar situations in my career. It doesn’t always work – some candidates ghost me after I can’t hire them, and I understand it.

      1. NotBatman*

        I wish more workplaces would be like that. I think part of the reason you see LinkedIn screeds (or AAM screeds, for that matter) is companies’ habit of ghosting candidates whom they don’t hire, or at most sending a form letter. It’s hugely frustrating to put in many hours of creating materials, preparing for interviews and (in academia, my field) delivering multiple multi-hour presentations for a job, only to literally never hear anything ever again about why they didn’t hire me.

        1. Synaptically Unique*

          I do these things when I have a really solid candidate that I can’t hire for a specific role, but I get why so many people refuse to offer feedback. I can’t count the number of posts I’ve seen from people who DID get feedback after an interview and badgered, argued, or otherwise escalated the situation vs just saying thank you and moving to the next opportunity.

        2. Elitist Semicolon*

          I’m still waiting to hear back about a job at {large southern state university} for which I interviewed in 2007. A few years later I was on an elevator at our field’s annual conference and the doors opened to reveal Search Chair. He stepped in, looked up, saw me, and backed right out again.

    4. Blue Pen*

      This, and that it also illustrates a warped understanding of how these things actually go. I also can’t fully understand the disconnect some candidates display when they’re not chosen but insist up and down how qualified they are. That may very well be true, but when a hiring manager is receiving 300+ resumes for an open position, you can’t possibly believe you are the *only* (or most ever) qualified one out of the bunch? At some point, it becomes a numbers game.

      1. Nola*

        We once interviewed a candidate four times over a 2 year period. He was a great candidate all four times – but – three times someone else was slightly better for the role. We were thrilled when the stars finally all aligned and we were able to hire him! And we’re also thrilled about those other three employees we hired instead of him. All four have excelled in their individual roles.

        There’s a lot that goes into hiring and it’s not just what the interviewee does.

      2. Chief Bottle Washer*

        I can easily believe there are many qualified candidates for a position. What really toasts my buns, however, is when I get rejected for a job I am totally qualified for and then see that same job reposted.

    5. Sparkles McFadden*

      I was turned down for a job but I thanked the personnel guy who called to let me know. The thanks was genuine as it was nice to know for sure so I could move on. He called me the following week with information about two other job openings with people in his network.

      I’ve also been the hiring manager who has found something for a good candidate that just wasn’t the best candidate at the time we were hiring. The people who would call and email (and show up in person!) to insist we made a mistake? They’d end up on the “no hire” list. Saying “I can’t believe anyone could be more qualified!” is a way of saying “You were right not to hire me.”

      1. Frieda*

        My workplace just hired someone who was the second candidate for a similar position a few weeks ago (the person who was hired for that job had more experience in the direct area but they were both good candidates.)

        Then someone quit, the very similar second position opened, and the second candidate was invited to come for an interview (others were also interviewed, to be clear) and promptly hired. I can only imagine that she was gracious and professional during the whole process, and the person who hired her is really excited to have her on board.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I received many form rejections when I was job hunting, but if someone emailed me directly, I always answered and thanked them — you never know. Just a simple, “Thank you for keeping me up to date. I hope you find the exact right person / congrats on your new hire!” or something similar.

        In email, I can be polite and they can’t hear my Yosemite Sam impersonation, lol.

    6. Helewise*

      We had someone apply for a job recently who was really snarky in his application materials about not having been selected for the last job he’d applied for, which was a great way of confirming that we’d made a good decision on that one.

    7. Librarian*

      for LW5 thank you for that great example. I work in government, civil service, so not only is there a process that can crawl, there are unexpected things like that. it’s hard to keep up with a 40 person eligible list and we get incredibly frustrated when we lose people due to timing. a few other examples – mandatory “open” periods, so a position must be posted for 4 weeks and we can’t do anything else until it closes. layoffs trigger bumping rights, so we must hold on filling anything else until anyone bring laid off has bumped to another eligible position. a person isn’t available. I value and think very highly of the candidates who ask professionally and through the names actually in the posting for updates and am happy to give them. Our eligibility list also last a while, and we’ve called people at just the right time when they thought the door was closed. The screed that goes to the general suggestion box, to the elected officials, or to the front line staff who have nothing to do with the process just gets me to remember a name, not in a good way.

      1. Buffy will Save Us*

        OMG I work for civil service too (state.) I try to explain to people how frustratingly hard it is to hire. First, we have to fill out the form asking to fill the position. I sign it, the CEO signs it, the head of HR signs it, it goes downtown to civil service to approve. Then it comes back, and we can post. But wait, is there a list? If so, we have to interview those people first. If we don’t like them, THEN we can post. Maybe inside the building if we have someone we want to hire, maybe outside but only for state employees, OR we can go on Indeed. Once the full period for the posting has completed, we get all the applications, pick the ones we want to interview, & set up the interviews. After those are done, we have to rank them with the reasons why. I sign off, the CEO signs off, HR signs off, it goes downtown to civil service. They can totally nix the candidate for reasons. Once it comes back, HR has to be the one to let us know if we can tell anybody. They tell the person the salary. We can try to argue for higher but only so much. AND THEN. So much they have to do to get hired. AND THEN. We have a structured new employee orientation that only happens 1x/month if that, and they have to attend it to start. I have 10 open positions and have had at least that for the last 3 years.

  5. Living the Dream*

    On weekend interviews, I run a start up micro business (what a wild year it has been). I offer weekend interviews to all of my candidates, and the feedback on my flexibility has been good. From where I sit, it means my candidate doesn’t have to navigate time away from work to talk to me. I want to work to their schedule. And of course I can do M-F 9-5 too. (All that said, I would really like my weekends back…I just finished 14 hours of invoicing.)

    1. Allonge*

      To be honest I think this is what OP is concerned about though: if work is really truly Mon-Fri, the idea of interviews on the weekend does not come up (not so easily anyway).

      I, too would appreciate flexibility but the issue is more the principle of it. Still, nothing else to do but ask and pay attention.

      I hope you do get your weekends back soon!

      1. Varthema*

        I think I’d feel differently if it’s the owner (nobody expects to be able to start and run a new business in 40 hours a week) than an employee who might not feel they have a choice about working weekends or not. Still, I’d probably ask about it!

    2. linger*

      At FormerOrg (academia) we would always schedule interviews for weekends. This was unavoidable because all interviewers had different teaching schedules at different locations, so it was the one shared non-teaching time everybody could get in one room AND also have some degree of privacy; and some candidates also had existing weekday teaching schedules to be worked around. So that part isn’t necessarily a red flag. (There were other occasional events that had to be scheduled on weekends for similar reasons; I typically had 5-8 per year.)
      However, we also scheduled the dates about a month in advance, after checking with the shortlisted candidates. So short notice for a weekend interview could indicate a potential problem with work-life boundaries and/or disorganization (even beyond what is normal for academia).

      1. Ellie*

        It feels a bit desperate to me, to be honest. You missed the call on Friday and they don’t even want to wait until Monday to talk? That feels off. It might not be and there’s no harm in asking questions I guess, but it would put me off.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Right.
      It would have been nice if the message OP got was more along the lines of “If it’s more convenient for you to talk outside of normal business hours, I can make myself available for a phone call this weekend.”

    4. learnedthehardway*

      Agreed. The company OFFERED to do the interview on a weekend. That means that they are willing to accommodate people. They didn’t insist it had to be on a weekend.

      It’s possible that the hiring manager’s schedule is so blocked for the coming week that it would be easier for them to do the weekend. Or the company may just recognize that people don’t like to or can’t take time out of their workday to interview.

      1. Margaret Cavendish*

        Yeah, I think this is actually a green flag. At most yellow, but not red without a lot more information.

        First of all, it does sound like an offer rather than a requirement. “We’re available if you want to talk on Saturday or Sunday” is different from “Your interview is at 2:30 on Saturday.” OP, how did they respond when you said you weren’t available? Did they try to insist on the weekend, or were they fine with doing it on Monday?

        Also, this sounds like a phone screen rather than a full interview. So it’s likely to be just one person making themselves available, as opposed to the entire interview panel working on the weekend.

      2. Whitehorse*

        This was my thought: offering a weekend isn’t the same as requiring it. Based on what the LW said, I read it as the company letting them know it was an option rather than encouragement to do it on the weekend.

        I hire for five to ten temporary positions each summer and I usually shift my schedule during interview times. This year I worked some Saturdays and Sundays, some early mornings, and some later evenings. I took a bunch of half days and extra days off to compensate, and it worked out for everyone.

      3. amoeba*

        For me, it wouldn’t be the point that they offer me the slot, if it’s truly optional – but that *they* are working on the weekend at all. Which at least would make me ask more questions – in my current company, weekend work is very much not a thing at all, for anybody (I mean, maybe some people do some writing or whatever, but never anything that involves other people!)
        So the fact that the hiring manager or whoever is on the panel would then be working on a weekend to interview me would at least be a yellow flag.

  6. Emily*

    #3 I think Alison’s advice is spot on, and congratulations on your wedding. I am sorry you are having to change it for the reason you are.

    1. LaminarFlow*

      Massive +1! Congrats to LW, and I’m so sorry that such a happy time in their lives has been hit with such awfulness.

    2. JMC*

      Also there is a chance that same sex marriages will be invalidated later I’m sorry to say so setup legal protections as well as if you aren’t married. Anything you can possibly set, because we are going into hell.

      1. I Have RBF*

        My spouse and I also have a DP, so even if they invalidate the grandfathering, we still have our DP to fall back on. Plus, California passed Proposition 3, which enshrined the right to same-sex marriage in the California Constitution. But that’s no help for North Carolina.

  7. Joyful2*

    Dear OP #3:
    Ugh! I’m so sorry you’re having to rush your wedding due to the current state of affairs but I really hope you can make it a joyous occasion.
    My partner and I got married 5 years ago for the decidedly un-romantic American dream (I needed her much better health insurance benefits) and looking back, I wish we would have celebrated a little more despite the circumstances.
    You only do this once (hopefully!), try to enjoy it!
    Congratulations and best wishes!

    1. Bananapants Modiste*

      Dear Joyful2,
      I had to do a similar hasty marriage a long time ago (we still are going strong).
      There’s a thing called “renewing your vows”, which I recommend turning into the celebration you wanted (I will, too). All the best.

      1. A reader among many*

        That sounds like a great idea! It is distressing that people are in this position, but there is no law that says that you’re only allowed to celebrate major lifelong events one time.

        1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

          People will sometimes handle the legal-procedural paperwork part on a deadline, and delay the ceremonial-celebratory part until circumstances permit.

    2. M*

      I’ve got a pair of friends who married one February, with just immediate family present, and very deliberately held off the celebration bit until some six months later, simply because that was less stressful to organise that way.

      OP3, there’s nothing stopping you getting a registry wedding now and having a full celebration on your originally planned dates, if that’s what you want! (It’ll also let you completely side-step the politics-talk-at-work: “we totally underestimated how stressful all the organisation would be, and this was just a lot easier, but we’re still doing the big party next year!”.)

      1. Jackalope*

        This was going to be my recommendation, actually. Have the wedding now and reception next year when you were going to. That way you can have the practical issues ironed out this year but still celebrate with friends and family in a way that’s hard to throw together last-minute.

      2. TransmascJourno*

        Yup! My partner and I are in the same boat as OP (I’m non-binary/transmasc, my partner is a cis queer woman), and we’re going to get married in the courthouse later this month and then have an official celebration somewhere down the line.

        1. Elsewise*

          I’m in a similar boat. We’re in a very progressive state with a lot of marriage protections, and we have a wedding scheduled next spring. We’re still deciding if we want to get legally married sooner, but at this stage we probably will just to not have to deal with the anxiety. The wedding is still on either way, though, and we’re looking forward to celebrating with our family and friends, whether or not we get legally married before.

    3. Not That Kind of Doctor*

      I worked with someone in grad school who moved up their wedding date for financial reasons but did it at the courthouse and had the big party as originally planned.

      The kicker was, they did it without telling anyone, I assume for fear that the relatives chipping in for the party would only do so for the “real” wedding. Except coworker had this weird delusion that they could talk loudly into a cell phone in a shared space and the rest of us would not hear because it was a private conversation, so we knew.

      1. Arglebarglor*

        My sister got married at the courthouse a month before their reception date because of insurance and financial reasons. They specifically did not tell any parents involved because we knew they would lose their minds at not being included on the “actual date.” While my sister and I are very close and I was maid of honor at the “ceremony” held after the courthouse wedding, I told her not to invite me to the courthouse ceremony or tell me when it would be so I could have plausible deniability if relatives started asking about it. SO SILLY but you do what you have to.

        I married my husband less than a year after starting dating because we were already living together and were spending thousands of dollars a year on his medications because he didn’t have insurance. So we planned to get married for the insurance and keep it quiet, until he said, “I kind of want to be married to you for real” (ie publically) and I agreed. So we had a quick, small, fun wedding. It will be 20 years soon!

    4. Nesprin*

      Many congrats!

      When we got hitched for immigration reasons, “we’ve decided to elope this weekend” worked for general audiences, with “we decided to elope so that this person I love can stay in the same country with me” reserved for people who were close (or people who were jerks about immigration policy).

    5. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Same! My now-spouse got laid off while we were planning our wedding. We went from “planning a ceremony at a botanical garden and deciding between the venue’s caterers vs outside company” to “Y’all doing anything next weekend? We’re getting married at husband’s D&D group GM’s place because he’s licensed. No, not in game, for real. Bring snacks.” I made our wedding cake, which was waaaayyy too much stress and I should have just gotten one from the grocery store. GM friend’s A/C was broken. Husband forgot his shoes so we got married in bare feet. And I still had to argue with work about adding him to my insurance because the marriage certificate wasn’t enough; they wanted evidence that we shared a bank account. BUT we were surrounded by people we loved, we laugh about it to this day, and we’ve been together for 15 years.

  8. tommy*

    dear LW #3,

    sending love. i’m sorry it’s not safe to wait for your sibling to be back.

    i agree that a cheerful “plans changed!” can head off curiosity. it’s a bit weird that it can, because that expression doesn’t reveal anything, but somehow the fact that it’s such a common expression sometimes turns off other people’s questions.

    and i’m sorry that cheerfulness might help! you shouldn’t need to be cheerful on this topic. (and you don’t need to, of course. it just can help create a boundary.)

    1. Emmy Noether*

      It’s like the politician’s technique for not answering uncomfortable questions. The very confident nonanswer, then pivot to prepared talking point. It seems to help if it’s also lengthy and delivered with a smile.

      It works even better in social situations where people just want the conversation to flow on and not create awkwardness.

    2. Allonge*

      Cheerful non-answers help – in general* – because they indicate that 1. there is nothing dramatic going on (the cheerfulness part) and 2. the speaker does not want to discuss in detail (the non-answer part).

      Most people have limited energy to delve into things that seem to be going well for other peeps, even for closer acquaintances. I would e.g. not be surprised if a lot of coworkers would not remember the reason the wedding was originally supposed to take place later, or even if they do, would go ‘oh well, stuff changes’.

      (Ironically, cheerfulness is also an appropriate emotional response to ‘hey, I am getting married soon’, so it will not be out of place).

      *Yes, there are Nosy People and Ask Questions as a Trauma Response People who will not be satisfied with this, but that is a separate issue.

    3. Bananapants Modiste*

      Just to be practical – could you fly your sibling in for the earlier wedding?

      I believe marrying sooner than later might be wise:
      A favorite actor of mine – George Takej (have met the man, he’s intelligent, funny , and outspoken) quickly married his partner before California’s Proposition 8 banned gay marriage again. The time window in that state only was 6 months.
      So go and marry with my blessing!

      2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        I married my spouse in that same time window in California. It was a little different, since everyone knew there would be a deadline.

      3. ThatGirl*

        Not to be pedantic, but it’s Takei.

        And along with getting married, can I suggest any same-sex couples make sure wills and durable power of attorney is in place? IANAL, I just saw that advice elsewhere.

        1. Sparkles McFadden*

          Wills, health care proxies, and POAs are important for everyone. You may think family members will be reasonable, but people flip out when someone is dead or dying.

      4. Black Horse*

        My brother and his husband did this, then a few years later when they had the time and money to make it perfect (which it was!), they had a huge bash, with everyone they know and love there to celebrate.

  9. Nodramalama*

    For LW2, it seems possible, like Alison said, that this might have less to do with a bad work culture, and more the person who calls you needs to do something in relation to this job by Monday. If it was me, I’d agree to meet on the weekend and just ask if that’s normal

    1. NotBatman*

      Yes, I agree that this is a yellow flag — the fact that occurred in combination with the calls late on a Friday is not great. Last year I had a hiring manager call me three times after 9:00 PM on a Thursday and (when I finally picked up, assuming it was an emergency) insisted that I had to talk to them the next day. He overrode my objections that Friday wasn’t good, finally getting me to commit to a 7:00 PM interview. The interviews were fine, the position seemed great — but when the hiring manager repeatedly insisted I *had to* drive down for a final-round interview on one particular day (one I’d already explained wouldn’t work), I withdrew my application.

      I’d ask LW2: is the person scheduling interviews the person who’d be managing you? If so, are there any other signs that they won’t respect your time? Sometimes hiring has to happen fast, but a lack of planning on their part doesn’t constitute an emergency on your part. The assumption that people are “free” on the weekends (instead of raising kids, volunteering, etc.) to me seems like a bad sign about this job’s boundaries.

    2. LaminarFlow*

      Yes – just ask if this is normal for the company, and proceed from there. Someone else posted that they offer weekend interviews so people don’t have to take time away from their jobs during the week. I had not considered that angle, but I think it’s great.

      I also know that when I’m proposing a day/time that’s outside of Monday-Friday 9-5ish hours, I tell the candidate why I’m offering those days/times so they don’t get weirded out.

      1. JustaTech*

        Yes! I’m guessing from your ‘nym you also work in the sciences, where it’s both very normal to sometimes have lab work on the weekends (dang cells need to be fed all the time) *but* it’s also sadly common for some science jobs to want to treat everyone as grad students or post-docs, which is to say, you work as close to 24/7 as possible.

        The only way to be sure if this is schedule flexibility or abusive overwork is to ask.

    3. rebelwithmouseyhair*

      Yeah, I had a guy call me at about 8pm once. Just that one call wouldn’t have put me off, but when I went in for the interview I was told that lunch was 12-2, no negotiation possible. We had to start early to be in contact with clients in China, and end late to be in contact with clients in the US, and so we had a mandatory long French lunch every day. Except I had to pay for childcare outside of school hours, and the premises were in some godforsaken suburb with no nice places to go for lunch. And after the interview, at about 3.30, the woman interviewing me had a quick chat with a colleague in the corridor during which it transpired that neither had had lunch. So I turned that job down pretty quickly.

  10. RCB*

    #2, did you say they wanted to fully dissect your resume BEFORE deciding if they wanted to schedule an interview? Isn’t fully dissecting your resume that entire point of an interview?

    #5, you’d think this would go without saying, but sadly it does not: Please make sure you follow up with your external candidates and formally reject them, do not ghost them. I’ve been applying for jobs (Professional jobs, in the accounting/nonprofit sphere) and it is SHOCKING how many people ghost you after an interview. I do not expect a response after applying, but if I interview and never hear from you again that is just appalling, and it’s happening about 50-75% of the time. I have no idea why anyone thinks this behavior is okay, let alone a majority of hiring people, but apparently they do.

    1. Observer*

      #5, you’d think this would go without saying, but sadly it does not: Please make sure you follow up with your external candidates and formally reject them, do not ghost them

      This. You can’t help what happened, and your management is not wrong in how it is approaching the situation. But *this* is the one thing you have in your control. If you indeed see that this person is going to be the next hire, contact the other candidates and formally reject them.

      1. Jaydee*

        Exactly. Just because you can see behind the scenes and know that one of them would have gotten the job if you hadn’t had to save this internal candidate from being laid off doesn’t mean that they have any idea what happened – nor should they.

        Send a nice, basic “very competitive process with lots of highly qualified applicants” rejection letter, and add a sentence (if true) for the ones you would have wanted to move forward with saying that you encourage them to keep an eye out for other openings and apply for those if they’re interested. That’s about the best you can do to convey to them that they were great, they just didn’t get this particular job, and you’d consider them again in the future.

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      Absolutely! I’m not sure how much information you can share with the candidates if you have to go with the internal transfer, but you absolutely owe them a follow up email. Candidates are interviewing you just as much as you are interviewing them – perhaps this job opening doesn’t work out but another one might open up in the future, you want to be able to reach out to them and have them consider working for you, which they might not if you treat them poorly now (ie ghost them).

    3. ecnaseener*

      Re #2, sounds like it was going to be a phone screen – very normal thing to do, just weird that they didn’t use the words phone screen or phone interview. The sit-down interview hopefully goes further than just walking through the resume.

    4. I Have RBF*

      Seriously. I have lost track of how often I was ghosted after interview a few years ago when I was looking.

      A simple form letter by email would have closed the loop. They could have even waited until the new person started, if they wanted to hedge their bets.

      IMO, HR, when closing out a req, should automatically email those who weren’t hired: “Thanks for your interest in X position. We have hired a candidate that we feel is best suited for us. Best of luck with your job search.”

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Yep. My MO was to wait two weeks from the date of the interview, with one follow-up in the middle, and then forget about it. I marked it as No in my spreadsheet and moved on.

      With applications, it was just the two-week wait and then a no-reply mark on the sheet. Sometimes I’d get a form letter. And some of those didn’t come until months later, so waiting around to hear back would have been worthless anyway!

  11. Observer*

    #3 – I think that a perfect reason to give is “insurance reasons”. It’s true, it’s non-political, and it’s as boring and non-remarkable as it gets. As Alison points out, these are not close personal friends who have a deep interest in the details of your life. And insurance is both a big enough deal that people totally get why anyone would consider a major step to improve someone’s coverage while also being boring and arcane enough that most people really don’t want the details if they don’t realize it’s because you’re concerned that she might lose coverage.

    Sure, it’s not the *whole* reason, but if you don’t want to talk about the rest of this, you don’t owe it to anyone. And if at some point you decide you want to talk more about the other issues, all you need to say is “that was not the *whole* story.”

    1. Michigander*

      I agree. You don’t have to give any reason but if you want to or people push, almost everyone in America is going to understand “my partner is about to lose their health insurance” as a valid reason to speed up the process.

      Congratulations on your wedding!

    2. Ms. Eleanous*

      Second ‘health insurance’ as a response.

      The majority of couples in the U.S. find that when they marry, their taxes go up, not down.

      Jan 1st wedding, anyone?

    3. Claire*

      I hope my comment doesn’t become derailing, but I just want to chime in that health insurance IS political. A lot of us out here are really worried about losing our health insurance soon as a result of the election. And by “us” I don’t just mean civil servants who are about to see their jobs eliminated or queer folks who are planning to get married and go on their partner’s insurance, but any of us who rely on the ACA for our insurance. I am a solopreneur and if the ACA is repealed I will probably have to shut down my business. So I get what you mean by suggesting that saying “insurance reasons” is a “non-political” response, but in reality it’s all about politics in this case.

      1. A reader among many*

        +1. It’s so hard to draw clear lines as to what is and what is not “political” because politics touches on most things.

      2. Rex Libris*

        I think by “non-political” they just mean that it’s a response that doesn’t immediately lead to a heated political discussion in the workplace.

        I’m sorry you’re in that position. I’m sorry anyone is.

        1. Observer*

          I think by “non-political” they just mean that it’s a response that doesn’t immediately lead to a heated political discussion in the workplace.

          Yeah. This.

        2. sparkle emoji*

          Yes, the health insurance situation in the US is political, but not controversial to the same extent as LGBTQ issues, which I think is often what people mean when they use “political” in these contexts.

          1. Irish Teacher.*

            And it’s not something that can be argued with, at least not by anybody halfway reasonable. If the LW or her fiancée needs health insurance, they need health insurance and nobody is likely to start arguing that they don’t whereas I could imagine people arguing the likelihood of there being difficulties about their marrying in a year or so.

            1. LizB*

              Agreed. I just saw a facebook conversation absolutely blow up this morning because a wedding officiant posted, “if you’re an LGBTQ+ couple in [state] who would like to get married before January, message me and I’ll perform your wedding for free!” The comments were immediately filled with NOBODY’S RIGHTS ARE GETTING TAKEN AWAY and STOP FEARMONGERING. I shouldn’t be shocked at this point by the vitriol, but it was really something.

        3. Claire*

          Yes, that’s why I wrote “I understand what you mean…” I’m just pointing out a different side of it.

    4. LifebeforeCorona*

      Yes, my daughter was working in another country and in order for her BF to join her there they had to be legally married. So there was a registry wedding and a bigger official wedding 3 years later when they returned to their home country.

    5. Rex Libris*

      Yep. Personally, I’d just go with “There is some uncertainty about X’s job next year, so we want to make sure we can get them on my health insurance.” It’s enough explanation to give people something to understand and sympathize with.

  12. Observer*

    #4 – Overtime changes. I don’t entirely agree with Alison. It’s late enough that if this does do into effect, your company is going to get bitten. It generally takes more than a week or two to get this stuff in place.

    I wouldn’t push too hard, but you might want to respond to your HR pointing out the issue of the conventions you deal with, since you *cannot* legally do “comp time” even if it’s within your normal pay period. And also, that you probably are going to start needing to maintain time-keeping records.

    After that, wait and see. This is not really in your hands, and it’s not really your responsibility. Your HR seems either a bit incompetent or a bit too disconnected from what your company actually does and how it operates. But that’s not yours to manage (unless you are in the C Suite.)

    1. nnn*

      They’re not going to get bitten unless one of the convention weeks is in January and if it is then they’ll just have to pay overtime for that week, which might be a good way for O.P. to illustrate the point anyway.

      1. a trans person*

        Yeah I would advocate for tracking your own time on paper and then just making them pay overtime after the fact. If this affects you, you probably aren’t paid enough for it to be your problem. Just let them pay you the overtime.

    2. Cmdrshprd*

      One recommendation is even if your work does not ask/have you keep a timesheet, you can keep track of your own time.

      It would be best if you could keep a contemporaneous daily time record on something with a timestamp. Like a daily email to/from yourself saying Monday November 11, 2024, started 9am ended 5:30 pm. or a weekly email with your start/end times.

      Even hand written or word/Google doc. with start/end time.

  13. Free Meerkats*

    Maybe we should just scrap the whole exempt/non-exempt thing and everyone work 40- (better, 35-) hour weeks.

    1. Emmy Noether*

      The hard number cutoff for exempt/non-exempt obviously has problems (off of the top of my head: raises just over the threshold leading to less money; not taking into account local COL; having to be adjusted by legislators regularly).

      On the other hand, overtime sometimes is truly inevitable, so you don’t want to forbid it entirely and you want to protect the lowest paid workers from getting screwed over. It’s an imperfect system, but it seems necessary to me to have something in place.

      1. Double A*

        I don’t think the comment is about doing away with overtime, it’s doing away with the concept of exempt so everyone is overtime eligible. Including doctors, teachers, etc.

    2. Tradd*

      There are some jobs that truly are more than 40 hours. I’m a customs broker and in international transportation for three decades. I take work home almost every weekend for urgent air freight shipments that have to be cleared through customs ASAP. I’m salaried, but I’m also compensated to account for the weekend work. The weekend stuff is often no more than a hour. Freight doesn’t stop moving. There are plenty of reasons for people to work more than 40 hours.

      1. Danzig*

        I can see how your job (lots of jobs!) wouldn’t work on a strict M-F 9-5 schedule, but I’m curious whether that means 40+ hour weeks are the only option. If you had fewer shipments assigned to you, for example, could your work fit into 35-40 hours each week?

        1. Tradd*

          My office is in-office 8-5 with one hour unpaid lunch. There is no leaving early because your work is done. The work is NEVER done. Our workload is very easy to prioritize – air freight before ocean freight and arrival date determines what gets done. We have hard deadlines as freight that sits at an airport, port, or inland rail yard accumulates storage past the free time. Airlines generally give you 24 hours to pick up. Ocean terminals 4 days, rails are day of arrival + 1. Storage is very expensive (minimum $100 per day for an ocean container). The work has to get done. There are seasonal volume increases and decreases. There are only two of us doing customs clearances at the small freight forwarder I work for. We also have to answer questions on tariffs, import regulations, onboard new customers (which has a lot of paperwork), etc. Most days, I go home on time, but if you have to stay late or do stuff on the weekend, you do it. This industry is not for people who want to just be able to leave stuff undone at the end of the day. Coworker and I are very well compensated so that makes up for the weekend stuff.

          1. amoeba*

            Or you could just hire two instead of three people, so they could handle the work volume with an average of 40 h/week.

            I absolutely agree that not every job can be done on a very fixed schedule! That’s why I love our concept or “yearly work time” – we track our hours but have completely flexible times, and as long as we’re at an average of 40h/week at the end of the year, we’re good. So we could indeed work 60 h one week and 20 h the next without any problems, or even take three weeks off during a super quiet period if we do the work at other times.

            So yes – not every job can be done with 40 or 35 h *every week*, but every job can be done with 35 h *average*, if you employ the required amount of FTE.

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      FinalJob (DE) had 37-hour weeks (some like me chose to have contracts with fewer hours) – overtime was very simple and no extra effort to handle:
      hourly workers got paid for this, whereas salaried workers received comp time, both of these to the minute since we badged in and out (huge R&D & manufacturing site) which automatically also recorded exact times.

      This was the norm in my field, with huge flexibility in when salaried people worked, but absolutely no uncompensated minutes over the 35 hours (or whatever pt hours some people had in their contract). Also, no calls or EMs outside my hours, because … that would be work.

      When I had less work, I could just do fewer hours and work extra on busier days, so long as my comp account stayed within about -60 to +100. I also took extra days vacation from the comp account in slack times.
      I loved that system and stayed 30 years there until retirement :)

      1. amoeba*

        Yes, it’s what we have and it’s great! (Except it’s the same system for everybody, so everybody is salaried, basically. We used to be able to have extra hours paid out instead of taken as comp time, but not anymore.)

    4. D. B.*

      I’m not sure about that, but I sure don’t see a very good reason for teachers, doctors, and lawyers to be automatically exempt. Seems highly arbitrary.

      1. Arrietty*

        It’s because paying them for the actual hours they work would be exorbitant, so we pretend that because it’s a vocation, they don’t need money.

      2. Nightengale*

        I can. . . I’m a doctor who reduced hours and salary a few years ago officially to part time, really to a slightly more manageable full time so I could have a non patient day to catching up on chart which takes a really long time in my field. They had three models, exempt full time, non-exempt full time and non-exempt part time, so when I was moved to part time I started getting e-mails about how I would have to submit a time card and get advanced permission to spend time on Fourth of July working on charts because it would be time and a half.

        I was on the verge of writing in here when they saw sense and agreed I could remain exempt and manage my own time.

        1. Texas Teacher*

          I can see your point. Teachers generally don’t get to decide to do that; I wish they weren’t lumped in with doctors and lawyers in this exception rule.

          1. Starbuck*

            Yes, there’s certainly no good reason for teachers to have a lower salary threshold for exemption than the rest of us. I think many of the issues can be solved by getting rid of those profession exceptions, and increasing the minimum salary threshold for OT exemption as inflation does. And keeping that bar pretty high. But of course if we treated such things reasonably the federal minimum wage would be much higher and we wouldn’t have outdated policies like tip credits either.

        2. Jay (no, the other one)*

          Yup. I’m a doc, now mostly retired and working per diem, and for the first time in my career I have to submit time sheets. And this is part of the reason I chose to go per diem instead of part-time. I don’t need the very small benefits that part-time would have offered (we have health insurance and it wouldn’t add much to our retirement savings) and I very much value the flexibility and lack of additional paperwork. I had surgery in September and didn’t have to deal with doctor’s notes and disability paperwork or anything else – I just told them to take me off the schedule.

          I’m in an incredibly privileged position to be able to do this, I know.

      3. Ms. Eleanous*

        Doctors and Lawyers are going to be above threshold salary. Wouldn’t you think?

        Teachers really Should be also.

        If employees work long hours, it may be cheaper for the employer to give everyone a raise.

        1. Texas Teacher*

          Teachers in my suburban school district are above the threshold, but the state minimum salary is not; I believe in many rural areas, the salary is quite low.
          I wish the pay model for teaching was similar to nursing – lesson plans, grading, conferences, and meetings done within the 40 hours a week.

        2. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

          Not during residency they won’t always be, and that’s when many specialties have you working the most hours!

        3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          Not all lawyers salary are that high. You would be amazed at how firms lowballed people after 2008 and never really recovered.

          The simple reason lawyers are exempt — they write the rules and want to make sure they can milk all the hours theyc an out of young associates.

          Notice all 3 professions are those notorious for outside regular hours work.

      4. LaurCha*

        Came here to say this. The entire education system relies on the unpaid overtime work of teachers and it’s high time they be compensated for EVERY hour they work.

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      A counterpoint — how would you have a small hotel handle it when coverage is already short (e.g. vacation or planned medical care) and someone else gets sick?

      The hotel needs someone at the front desk and now you don’t have enough staff to keep 24/7 without asking someone to go into overtime.

      Similarly the hotel needs to have extra people on staff for a convention to handle workload surges. (e.g. 200 rooms will be checking in at about the same time.)

      1. Mizzle*

        That’s actually really simple: you pay the overtime, because that’s what that time is worth both to the hotel (they really need it) and the employee (who values their free time).

        1. doreen*

          The original comment was about eliminating the concept of exempt/non-exempt altogether and having everyone work no more than 40 hours a week. In which case there is no need to pay overtime because no one is working overtime. That’s what Seeking Second Childhood is talking about – they aren’t talking about not paying overtime but rather what does the hotel do when someone scheduled to work 4-12 is on vacation and the only other person on that shift calls in sick if we are going to limit workweeks to 40 hours. There are loads of jobs where the idea of eliminating overtime doesn’t work – some because of the nature of the work ( you wouldn’t want everyone in the ER leaving in the middle of a procedure because of a shift change) and others because of the scheduling – no small hotel is going to put three people on the midnight to eight shift if there’s only enough work for one, so vacation or illness is going to involve someone from another shift working OT.

          1. amoeba*

            Pretty sure the original comment didn’t mean that nobody should ever work more than 40 h in any given week, but that we shouldn’t have the concept of “salaried” – so it would be either overtime pay or comp time for everybody. (I personally love comp time, at least when you’re actually able to take it!)

      2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        Yup, pay them! Or give them comp time.
        Stop requiring them to donate uncompensated hours to your business.

      3. Learn ALL the things*

        Right. I get my where Free Meerkats is coming from with the suggestion that nobody should work more than 40 hours, but it really doesn’t work for coverage based jobs.

        In a standard office job, if everybody has hit their 40 hours by lunchtime on Friday and nobody is working Friday afternoon, it’s probably fine. But for coverage based jobs like healthcare, hospitality, public libraries, and other places that have to be open evenings and weekends, you’re going to have times when someone needs to be doing the job, and the only person available is someone who’s already worked 40 hours this week.

      4. Starbuck*

        So you pay overtime. How is this not the obvious answer? Other time-tested solutions are hiring temps, increasing staffing overall, cross-training, etc.

    6. Allonge*

      Ok, but some people need/like/prefer a part-time job? Even in a strictly 9-5 Mon-Fri office environment, there are reasons to have things more flexible than that.

    7. Falling Diphthong*

      While both sides ran on “Side A wants to eliminate the concept of overtime, including overtime pay” they meant “So you’ll work 60 hours for no extra pay.”

    8. nerdgal*

      That isn’t realistic for many jobs. Even in countries where a 35 hour week is the norm, there are provisions for overtime. Think of first responders, plant startups and shutdowns, weather emergencies, etc.

    9. Dinwar*

      It would destroy the construction industry. As well as oil and, somewhat ironically, environmental compliance and remediation. Basically anything with a field component would become much, much harder.

      These industries require a lot of travel, often in conditions where an 8-hour day just doesn’t make sense. Are you going to stop halfway through a 12-hour pump test? If you’re on a ship taking core samples what are you going to do during your downtime? We build these as ten-hour days because that’s what the job requires and that’s what works best for most people, and often work sun-up to sun-down simply because that’s what makes sense. (Lots of downtime makes up for the effort.)

      In these sorts of situations exempt makes sense. You know perfectly well when you sign up with the laborer’s guild, or as a field geologist, or for a ship-board job, that you’re getting into a job that requires a lot of time when you’re in the field. It makes sense for the worker and the work to work 10 hours a day in the field routinely.

      1. Pescadero*

        “In these sorts of situations exempt makes sense. ”

        No – in those sorts of situations paying overtime makes sense.

        1. Dinwar*

          Overtime, conceptually, is time worked outside of your normal requirements, as an incentive to work outside those hours. (Or, in the case of many, as punishment to the company for making people work these hours–there is a strong moralistic punitive aspect to this discussion.) These are jobs where you know going in that the normal work requirements are 10-hour days. So no, it’s not overtime.

          Plus, again, the nature of the job provides compensations that overtime would destroy. Most field workers I’ve met would rather get paid straight time for work over 40 hours, but also be on two-week or month-long pay periods. What this means in practice is that if I work a 60 hour week I can work until noon Wednesday and take the rest of the week off without dipping into my PTO. I’ve seen a guy manage his time such that he was able to get a five-day vacation in Tahiti without taking an hour of PTO, meaning he still had his full allotment to use however he saw fit. And that’s exactly why the companies do this: this work is physically, psychologically, and emotionally demanding, and having a lot of down time is absolutely necessary.

          If we went to overtime for all hours over 40 this would be gone. That’s not speculative, that’s what my company tried to do to us last time they tried this. Every week we’d have to get 40 hours–whether or not we worked 50, 60, even 70 the week before (24-hour pump tests suck and ten-day shifts are not uncommon). This would increase stress on the lowest-ranking people in the company, force them to spend more hours in the field (which will kill people), and remove one of the best perks of the job (flexibility). The net result will necessarily be an increase in hours worked, or a shutdown of a lot of industries that we really need because they simply can’t operate under the conditions you’re imposing. Don’t get me wrong, no one’s going to turn down a bit more pay–but a bit more pay that results in a tremendous uptick in stress levels isn’t worth it.

      2. Texas Teacher*

        Do those jobs have flexibility on non field days? Or do people work 60 hrs a week all the time, I wonder?
        I think what wears down teachers is that 32-35 hours a week is strictly coverage based, and to get all the rest of the job requirements completed, it’s many hours more, on top of a job in which you can’t even go to the bathroom exactly when you might need to.

        1. Dinwar*

          “Do those jobs have flexibility on non field days?”

          As I said above absolutely yes. It’s one of the perks, I’d go so far as to say it’s the most important one. The guy that took a five-day vacation without using PTO is not unique here. The folks I’ve known on research vessels get months off when they get home. Offshore oil rig workers have a weeks-on/weeks-off schedule.

          Don’t get me wrong, there are periods where you’re working 60-hour weeks on the regular. It’s the nature of the job for that to happen on occasion. But what usually happens is you either work hard the first week and take it easy the second, or take it easy the first week and work hard the second.

          Switch to “time and a half for all hours over 40” and you remove the vehicle by which this perk is provided.

          Teaching is a whole different beast. What constitutes work is often different. When I take a class for work it’s paid, whereas for some of the teaching courses (continuing ed) teachers pay out of pocket. Likewise, they pay for supplies out of pocket–while I CAN buy my own notebooks and pens, the assumption is the company will provide them. And things like grading and lesson planning, often done in the evenings or on weekends, are uncompensated. That’s ILLEGAL in my line of work–I could go to jail if I worked hours and didn’t log them! The teaching profession is a political football, though, so the rules are weird, ever-changing, and usually screw over the teachers.

          2. Pescadero*

            1.5x time for 1st 10 hours overtime in a week, or 2 hours in a day.
            2x time for next 10 hours in a week, or next 2 hours in a day.
            4x time for next 10 hours in a week, or next 2 hours in a day.
            10x time for next 10 hours in a week, or next 2 hours in a day.

            Work 80 hours in a week? That is 40 hours regular time, 10 hours 1.5x, 10 hours 2x, 10 hours 4x, and 10 hours 10x. 215 hours of pay.

            Also – unlimited sick time, and a minimum of 4 weeks vacation per year.

            1. Dinwar*

              215 hours is roughly 5 weeks and 2 days, for reference. I would not invite someone back to work for me if they charged like that.

              Unlimited sick time doesn’t do much here. If you’re working 60 hours a week and take a day off, you’re only working 52 hours a week–which is still greater than 40, which means that even if you have unlimited sick time AND the company is honest about allowing you to use it (rarely the case), you wouldn’t get to use it anyway. And if you’re traveling what are you going to do when you’re sick? It’s not like you can lounge around your living room. Part of this is psychological; if you’re the type of person who can handle this sort of career long-term you’re also the type that wants to work. You learn to keep a few low-brain-power tasks in reserve for sick days. Plus, “Boss I feel like crap, I’m going to stay in the hotel and update our paperwork in case we get audited” is a much easier sell than “I’m going to sit around the hotel room doing nothing.”

              4 weeks vacation sounds good, but it ignores how this line of work works. First, these lines of work generally offer fairly generous PTO to begin with–again, sometimes we’re talking MONTHS off at a time, not weeks. Second, a lot of the PTO isn’t taken in week-long increments. Those who work out in these lines of work quickly learn to take advantage of brief periods of downtime, a day here and there (or even an hour or two here and there). And to be clear, an hour or two can make a difference! If you’re traveling and there’s a concert that hour can be pretty significant. This is why most of the companies I’ve worked with accrue PTO as hours, not weeks. This allows the employee to manage their time more effectively.

        2. doreen*

          Depends on the job – I’ve had a couple of government jobs where there was not much restriction on which hours I worked as long as I worked X hours in Y period. Sometimes it was 37.5 hours in a week and other times it was 150 hours per 4 week timesheet . That job was OT exempt but at least if I worked 50 hours in Week 1, I could work only 25 hours in Week 2 or any other arrangement that got me to 150 hours over 4 weeks. Way better than when I had to work 37.5 hours each week and if I worked 50 hours in the first week of a timesheet , I still had to work 37.5 in the second.

    10. Pescadero*

      Bingo.

      Everyone paid for every hour they worked. Overtime for anything over 40 hours in a week or 8 hours in a day. No exceptions for anyone.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        In a perfect world, the idea of exempt sounds good. No time tracking. If you need to work a little less this week, you still get a regular paycheck. If you need to work a little more another week, you still get a regular paycheck. Ideally it would all average out to 40 or fewer hours per week.

        But in my experience, employers will try to maximize their best interests at the expense of the employees so that it’s averaging out well north of 40 hours. Laws also haven’t kept up. All the calculations that were set at the inception of FLSA about minimum wages, median wages, and overtime thresholds have been eaten away by inflation and corporate greed. Minimum wage at the inception of FLSA supposed to be half of median wage, now it’s a quarter. Median wage is like half of what it should be if wages had kept pace with inflation and economic growth. The overtime threshold used to be 300% of minimum wage, now it’s 67%. Cumulatively, it all means that Americans are working more and earning less.

    11. Sparkles McFadden*

      I cannot think of single job I’ve ever had where sticking to a specific number of hours would have been possible.

  14. Elsa*

    LW1, it sounds like Mary’s tangents are a problem for you but not for your boss, so sometimes the right thing to do will be for you to excuse yourself and let them continue without you. You can say something like “it sounds like we got through the agenda items, do you need me for anything else?” and if not then just politely excuse yourself to get back to your other work.

      1. Emmy Noether*

        Yeah, if that’s true, that’s a very considerate derailer. All the ones I’ve met have led to being on agenda point 1 of 10 an hour into a 30 minute meeting…

    2. andy*

      > it sounds like Mary’s tangents are a problem for you but not for your boss

      I have seen too many “unable to manage the meeting” managers to automatically assume this. Chances are, it is issue for the boss who complains about it to friends, but is does not know what to do or that there is an expectation on them to manage meetings.

      1. Allonge*

        Which brings me to: if I were OP1, I would try to flag this to boss in a 1-on-1 meeting.

        Not as a ‘here is a major issue’ but ‘I noticed that Mary seems to have a lot of questions in these meetings which are not relevant to the rest of us, would it be ok to leave once the agenda is done and the two of you can have that discussion’? So to raise that there is an actual problem there, without creating a Big Thing. Indeed some managers need to be told that it’s an actual problem.

        1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

          Then the entire department will follow OP’s lead and up and leave as soon as Mary launches on her spiel, and the manager will either have to just listen to her. Then you just have to hope he won’t agree to one of her silly suggestions!

      2. Saturday*

        Yeah – but on the other hand, when the meeting is scheduled for an hour and doesn’t go over, a lot of people are happy with that, even if it could have ended earlier. I think the suggestion to try 30 minute meetings is good.

      3. OP 1*

        This is the scenario, really. My boss is very polite and hesitant to shut down derails (a tendency I’ve noticed with her outside of these particular meetings) and I’ve often acted as a right-hand in meetings to support staying on track (information I should’ve included in the letter!).

        The good news is that in between sending in this question and the answer getting posted, I have been put in charge of these particular meetings, so I can make all the changes necessary to make them smoother and more efficient.

        1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

          Was it that manager who decided to delegate it to you? Sounds like she just decided, OP1 is great at shutting Mary down, she ought to handle all the meetings!

    3. VP of Monitoring Employees' LinkedIn Profiles*

      Yes, THIS!

      Doing that consistently will get you away from the “derailment” AND encourage others to also excuse themselves, leaving the boss in a much-needed 1-on-1 with Mary.

  15. Santiago*

    Be careful OP #2, just be alert. Academia is infamous for people who are either 1) awkward and don’t understand work-life boundaries or 2) intentionally driving people into the ground. I would tread carefully.

  16. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #2 could be ideal for people working M-F, so they don’t have to take PTO for the interview.
    Of course, at the interview you should ask about working hours and days for your particular role.

    #3 Congratulations on your marriage and I wish you a very happy life together.
    Regardless of the reason for moving up the date, try to focus on the happy occasion, not the bigoted AHs causing this.

    Depending on your workplace attitudes and how much you normally share, you could say e.g. “logistics” / “health insurance” / “getting married while we can” or nothing. I’d be surprised if anyone actually asked you why, since it should be obvious, so you could also just announce your dates of absence.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I appreciate it’s bloody difficult to not think about the bigots when they openly hate you and may bring in laws to restrict your rights.

  17. Bananapants Modiste*

    #3 (emergency gay wedding):
    Didn’t read all the comments yet, but:
    Thank you, Alison, for providing a safe space to discuss LGBTQ+ issues in the workspace. This is not a given.

  18. Varthema*

    I feel like as a left-leaning American with a minimum awareness of current events and cause/effect I’d immediately guess what’s going on if a colleague engaged to someone of the same sex announced they were bumping up their wedding from 2025 to 2024. You may not have to do as much explaining as you think! In any case congratulations and best of luck. <3

    1. Observer*

      You are probably right. But also, that makes it all the more important for the LW to have a bland and non-remarkable answer ready for anyone lacking awareness.

  19. bettyboop*

    #3 hit me like a punch in the gut. I’m so sorry that you are in this situation. I’m not american but as a queer person I’m so damn sorry. But also congrats on your wedding I hope its amazing despite everything.

  20. Who knew*

    LW #1, if this particular meeting is only once per month, it may be that the supervisor doesn’t mind if it devolves into an informal check-in that your coworker then dominates with her questions. If this is the case, you may just have to plan for roughly half an hour of unproductive chit chat unless you have a non-agenda topic you want to bring up to fill the time instead.

    If this is occurring more than once per month, I would consider exactly what tangible bad consequences are coming from your coworker detailing meetings before raising it with your supervisor, and not just that it’s overall inefficient or annoying. You may just have to negotiate with your supervisor that you have to check out after the end of the agenda for *reasons* if you are the only one raising concerns with it. Otherwise, I think you are better off getting a group to bring it up as an issue if you are trying to change the culture or just this coworker to stick to the agenda without being perceived as overly rigid.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      Yeah, it could equally be the case that the boss is just bad at keeping agenda items on track, but I definitely was also wondering “Is this actually a problem for the type of meeting?” I have been in plenty of contexts where managers allowed extra time specifically for blue-skying and brainstorming – even when it is not directly useful, they see it as team bonding or getting to know their reports. Even if that isn’t the case and the manager is going over time allotted, it seems that Mary thinks they are in a “no wrong answers” style of brainstorming situation.

      1. Saturday*

        Yeah, I was thinking about that too. The boss may like the brainstorming and may not be trying to run a particularly task-focused meeting.

    2. Antilles*

      Based on the first paragraph where OP describes Mary and how OP handles it in meetings that OP runs, that fundraising meeting reads like OP simply giving one concrete example. It’s a “for example” illustration of the larger problem, not that she’s only derailing this single meeting.

      I also don’t read anywhere that this is a company culture issue where nobody can stay on track, just that Mary in particular goes off on a tangent and meeting organizers (e.g., boss) don’t do their job in cutting her off / redirecting. Which is extremely common, because (a) sometimes it does make sense to let a short tangent happen and (b) most people feel a bit awkward being too direct. BUT in my experience being in OP’s shoes, when you as an attendee take a bit of initiative in helping push things back on track, that often can end the problem fairly easily. It also often makes the meeting organizers themselves more willing to cut off tangents, because they don’t feel like the sole ‘bad guy’ but that others in the room want to stay on track.

  21. bamcheeks*

    LW3, I think because this feels like a big, out-of-character decision for you, motivated by lots of very big, very scary things, you are putting more weight on these conversations than they need. When people say, “You’re doing it that soon!? How come?” they aren’t looking for a ~justification~ or a business case, they are demonstrating that they care about you by showing an interest. They will take their cue from THE EMOTION you show far more than the words you say. If you say happily, “We just had one of those conversations which ended up with, what are we waiting for, and decided to go for it, and the venue had a vacancy week after after next, so here we are!” 9/10 people will go, “that’s so cool! Has it been hard to arrange everything so quickly?” If you half-grin-half-grimace and say, “We figured we needed something to cheer us up!”, 9/10 people will match your energy and say, “Yeah, I get that. So what’s the plan? Have you got the venue sorted?”

    I would separately plan to shut down the 10% who have no boundaries and will try and push past yours. Personally, I would go with a kind but firm, “Well, that’s been part of our conversation too but I don’t want to talk about it here” to anyone who is also queer and will have been having some of the same conversations, and a slightly less kind blank + change of subject for anyone who seems like they are trying to bait you or interrogate you and isn’t coming from the same perspective.

    However, most people in this kind of conversation don’t want to pry into your most personal thoughts or decisions, they just want to mirror back whatever emotion you are showing. If you show cheerfulness and excitement, they will be cheerful and excited back at you. Whether you do a light reference to health insurance or the election, or just make it, “for once in my life I felt like being impulsive haha!” thing, the way you say it is probably more important than what you say.

    And congratulations, and have a wonderful time!

    1. Grizabella the Glaimour Cat*

      I agree with all of this. : )

      And LW3, I hope you and your partner have a wonderful wedding and sceonderful life!

      1. Grizabella the Glaimour Cat*

        LW3, after I posted that, I realized that I may have made it sound like I don’t appreciate the ramifications of the current situation for lgbtq people. I probably should have said that I hope you have a wonderful wedding and the best life possible under the current sucky circumstances. :-/

        1. Spencer Hastings*

          It looks like it should be Old English, or something: “Scyld Scefing hæfde scēonderful līf…”

    2. Another Kristin*

      Also, I would bet that most of OP#3’s colleagues have no recollection of her planned wedding date! If she did say nothing and just came back in a few weeks as Valentina New LastName, 95% of people would be like “huh, could have sworn the wedding was supposed to be next year, *shrug*” and get on with their day. I certainly don’t keep track of my coworkers’ major life events, I have enough trouble keeping on top of my own.

      The 5% who do remember may also be interfering busybodies who will DIE if they don’t know why OP’s wedding date was moved, but Alison has plenty of advice on shutting that sort of person down already :) I wouldn’t overthink it, OP#3, just enjoy your wedding and honeymoon!

  22. Brain the Brian*

    Sigh. I feel ya, LW3. I have decided to quietly re-closet myself and stop dating altogether; I’ve assessed that it’s just not safe for me to be working on federally funded programs in my field as an out gay person. What a gut punch this week has been.

    2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Can’t resist if you lose your job. Sometimes you gotta put your own mask on first. A lot of people are going to be making decisions right now, let’s not put pressure on them that they *must* decide a certain way.

    3. DJ Abbott*

      You should not have to put your life on hold because of this.
      Easy for me to say, I know. I am not LGBTQ myself, but I live in a city with a very rich LGBTQ culture, and I imagine the people there help each other with this so they can continue living and enjoying life in spite of/working around the oppression, and can refer each other to counselors to help. This culture began and developed and became what it is today under times that were mostly oppressive. There must be a way you can continue enjoying life. If you don’t live in a place with a physical community, maybe online? But not on your work computer, of course!
      If you feel the need to stay in the closet for a while to regroup that’s fine, but please don’t let it take over your life.

      1. Brain the Brian*

        I live in DC. There is plenty of queer culture here. I expect the new administration will snuff it out — in part by targeting gay employees of the federal government and federal contractors who have openly gay employees, in part by raising queer establishments on fake premises. (Attempted lawsuits to stop them will be the new litmus test for conservative judges: will they let the new administration continue? In any case, it’s just not safe.) All of this will be in the name of “cleaning up” the capital, which was an explicit campaign promise.

        1. Brain the Brian*

          Sorry. “Raiding,” not “raising.” (And yes, I’m including online “raids” of queer forums with traceable user information in that broad category.)

          1. Strive to Excel*

            Hugs to you.

            On a much smaller scale level I mod for a couple of very small scale streamer friends and they’ve notice an uptake in harassment and various hacking attacks recently. And they’re just playing Minecraft!

        2. DJ Abbott*

          I’m sorry you have to deal with all this. You and others should absolutely keep yourselves safe, and also keep living. Queer culture has dealt with this before, and can do it again.
          Good luck, and best wishes to all of you! <3

      2. restingbutchface*

        I know this comment came from a good place, but only OP can decide what is safe and what isn’t, so we need to believe them. Counsellors are great but they won’t hire you if you’re fired. Friends are brilliant but they can’t stop you being harassed.

        Trust me, LGBTQ people are excellent at working around oppression, we thrive in spite of those who wish us harm. OP will survive this and that’s the most important thing.

    4. Nah*

      Same, I had been waiting for several months now to even ask to start low-dosed HRT until the results came in. I will now be working as [Redacted Girly-Girl Name], completely cis and straight-but-focusing-on-myself-right-now. It’s gonna be hard enough trying to keep my disability support and insurance, I’m not eager to paint an even bigger target in my back right now in this area……

      1. Brain the Brian*

        I’m so sorry. At least for me, re-closeting myself is just a matter of remaining single. Dealing with dysphoria is a whole nother matter, and I’m sorry you have to prolong it for at least the length of another administration. Sigh.

    5. Hroethvitnir*

      I’m so sorry. I recall that your workplace sounds fairly conservative (if not politically per se, at least culturally by the more literal meaning), so I imagine you have a good idea of what future you’re looking down.

      I don’t have words for this whole situation, but I am so sorry.

      1. Brain the Brian*

        Yes; we’re a nonprofit in a weird position where the federal government has historically been more culturally liberal than most of our customers / beneficiaries. The need to follow federal policy has kept LGBTQ employees like me “safe” for a while, but I suspect that our management would be all too happy to follow a more conservative administration’s lead on a range of social issues; it would ease that tension with our customer base. And let’s face it: next to millions of dollars in annual federal funding, one employee is nothing. It would be so easy to find an excuse to cut my position if federal policy for contract and grant compliance shifted to an explicit or implicit anti-gay stance and I was out of the closet.

    6. restingbutchface*

      I’m so sorry. There’s no shame in keeping yourself safe. We do what we have to do so we can survive. Just make sure you recognise what you’re doing as a survival mechanism. It’s a reflection on others, not you. Sending you love.

  23. Expectations*

    OP2, it may not automatically be a big red flag, but it’s awfully close. It will be interesting to see if they were offering you the weekend or expecting you to be available over the weekend. When this has happened to me it was always the latter and there was at best disappointment I hadn’t reached out or scheduled something over the weekend. I have been dropped from consideration for jobs a few times because I didn’t respond/schedule over weekends. In those cases where the process continued it became a thing and I did not move past that step in the process.

  24. WarmSweetChai*

    I know three separate couples who got legally married at the courthouse in one year then held the wedding celebration the next year. In two of the cases none of the guests or family knew.

    3. JMU*

      This. LW#3, is there a reason that your “legal wedding” has to be at the same time as your “social wedding”?

      Where I live (France) the two things are entirely separate. The legal one can be done in maybe two hours total, most of which is gathering documentation. You do not need to tell anyone except those close/trustworthy enough. Friends or coworkers might theoretically learn about it because your intention to marry is “published” beforehand (meaning: posted on the town hall’s noticeboard for ten days – see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banns_of_marriage#France), but nobody reads those, and if you have already announced your summer wedding it is not a juicy secret either.

  25. I should really pick a name*

    #4

    I asked our HR about this over the summer, and they said that I shouldn’t be working overtime, so it won’t affect anything. But our company does multiple conventions and events every year

    Did you ask HR how conventions will be handled?

    1. Daphne*

      I thought that, too. HR may have been thinking about what happens on a week-to-week basis, not about the special events. Just go back and re-raise the issue.

  26. lost academic*

    OP2, I have a different read on the offer to have a call over a weekend then do most of the respondents so far. My schedule is so busy in the traditional working hours and can be upended by last minute work needs, travel or meetings that scheduling an interview call (and finding some privacy to both take it away from work but do so in a focused and professional manner) can be nigh impossible. I can’t also cancel or reschedule some of the calls and meetings even if they come after the interview call is scheduled for that reason. Someone offering a weekend call – and this is clearly an introductory interview, too, as it was called a chat – would definitely be seen as being thoughtful and understanding. I’ve had upper level interviews scheduled as early breakfasts or late drinks for these reasons – plus, it’s also been true in those cases that I needed to have 1:1 interview time with people that had even busier schedules.

    I will also note for other commenters that the OP called it a “company” and not something within academia or another research lab, though it could still certainly be a research focused job. I think that’s another good indicator that this isn’t something to be seen as a red flag but a thoughtful offer to accommodate you – and for that matter, move you along in a process that might have to go on without you if they thought they couldn’t get early stages of the process done in time for their needs.

    1. Clisby*

      I agree – I was surprised that anyone would take this negatively. I always appreciated it when interview times were offered outside of my working hours.

      1. Expectations*

        It depends on offered or demanded- and also it makes a difference that they were suggesting this weekend late on a Friday – pressure to interview immediately instead of doing research, etc if that’s you process and also an assumption that you’re automatically free (especially if you’re unemployed).

      2. Sparkles McFadden*

        Interviewing during non-work hours makes it easier to keep your job search from disrupting your current job, and easier to keep your boss and coworkers from finding out you’re looking to leave.

    2. Nola*

      Two years ago we had a highly qualified candidate who was also highly recommended by someone well respected in our industry. But she had a coverage based position, not too great vacation time, and three early elementary school aged children. Even a 15 minute phone screen was difficult because it would have had to be on her break and she didn’t have really have a quiet/private place to chat. Her employer required her to take PTO in 4 or 8 hour increments so she’d have to take at least a half day for an interview. Which, during an active job search would have quickly added up. She couldn’t meet before or after work because of school drop offs/pick ups.

      We offered her weekend interviews since it was easier for us to adjust our schedule than her. She had her first in person interview with us while her kids were at Saturday birthday parties.

      She was, as predicted, a great candidate and is now a great employee.

      We now offer weekend interviews if needed. Usually folks in coverage positions are happy to get to interview without taking PTO but we also get busy parents who can shift child care responsibilities more easily on a weekend than during the week.

      Since then we offer weekend times

    3. Hush42*

      This is how I took it as well. My company does what we call Long Format interviews for the final 2-3 candidates for a role. We schedule them for 3 hours. I have, frequently, offered candidates the option to do them later in the day so that they end after our standard working hours as I know it’s sometimes difficult to schedule that block of time. We never expect people to work longer than than our standard 8-5 but we are willing to accommodate for candidates schedules.

  27. JPB Gerald*

    Re 5: Yeah, my company has a good but complicated hiring process that ends with a panel interview. This is fine except we work in many time zones so getting everyone to be on all the panels is horrific, lol.

    I handled this with my recent hiring process by looking 5 weeks ahead on everyone’s schedules – before I’d even made it to that round!

    I see other hiring processes at my job taking months and a lot of it is just this sort of logistics people don’t plan ahead for. Because I was having a kid I didn’t want my hire to start while I was out.

    So I can see how our processes would frustrate others but not actually mean anything!

    (Hire started on 9/30 and I finally had that kid last Tuesday. Yes, something good happened that day.)

    2. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      Congrats on the new kiddo! Guy Fawkes babies are the best (I’m not just saying that because I am one)!

  28. Lamont and Rollo*

    I wasn’t aware of these potential changes to the overtime/exempt status and haven’t read the links, but I’m confused why the advice is to wait a few weeks rather than say something now.

    If it does go through, I’d think you/your company would want as much time as possible to deal with the changes.

    1. Emmy Noether*

      My understanding is that there’s a good chance that it will become moot anyway. So the advice for the LW is not to spend capital on pushing it now, only to have it be in vain, and maybe HR be resentful.
      Of course the company should want to prepare as early as possible in any case, but the people in charge don’t seem to want to do that.

    2. WellRed*

      It’s unpopular with business and is unlikely to go through, even more so now with the new administration coming in.

    3. doreen*

      The LW has already mentioned it to HR, and there’s a very good chance it won’t come into effect. Last time, it got stopped at the last minute , which caused a lot of upheaval. It might be different if one of these events was scheduled for Jan or Feb, but the letter doesn’t say that. Plus, there’s a good chance the company already has a plan ( maybe the one they were going to use last time) and just hasn’t publicized it yet.

      1. 1-800-BrownCow*

        This was my thought as well. As someone in management, I’ve been aware of plans in place for events like this and HR/management prefer to delay publicizing their plans because otherwise they often get bombarded with questions/comments on the possible plan that may end up being moot anyway if it doesn’t go into effect. Or they might tweak/improve the plan as they closer to the date and don’t want to have to constantly update employees each time they tweak the plan.

  29. Bookworm*

    #5: Thank you very much for sharing. I’ve been in the job hunt for a FT position for a little over 1.5 years now and it’s been frustrating. I’ve definitely lost a couple of jobs to internal hires (LinkedIn can be useful for that) and so this is good to know. Still extremely frustrating (with respect, it does take time and effort to go through the entire prepping process that is understandably expected from a candidate) but still useful for perspective. I really do appreciate that you shared this with us.

    2. Nah*

      Yeah, my only advice is *PLEASE* do not ghost the candidates of this internal hire goes through. It’s so simple to just forget to send out an apology email, maybe say you’d love them to reapply if another position opens up, but getting to the final interviews and then hearing nothing, and finally weeks later seeing on LinkedIn that an internal hire happened instead…. not the best feeling.

      Not that #5 was planning on purposefully doing so (or not doing so), just figured it couldn’t hurt to bring up.

  30. Roeslein*

    Best wishes to OP3 who spells fiancée correctly for her partner’s gender! (This is a joke, but I was once blamed for misgendering someone’s partner’s when *he* had spent months writing about his “fiancé” – being a native French speaker, I had assumed of course they must be a guy based on the spelling.)

  31. Workerbee*

    OP#1 Commiseration for you. I’ve had to endure the Gosh I Just Had This Great Idea! Talkers as a colleague, and the only way to shut that down (as a colleague) is to physically remove myself or hope they find another job.

    The bosses in question were all incapable of reining things back in or supporting those who tried. Meetings ran over all the time.

    And, interestingly, the ratio of these Great Ideas being actually done by the Talker was pretty slim.

      1. TheAraucana*

        I have a boss who likes to Think Out Loud, and boy, that’s hard to control when they’re the boss.

      2. Daphne*

        I heard this referred to as talk-to-think, as opposed to those who process silently who are think-to-talkers.
        No amount of framing will ever make me think of it as anything but running your got-dam mouth when you should be shutting the eff up.

  32. Lamont and Rollo*

    Offering to schedule a call on the weekend *could* be a flag, but it could also be the company showing flexibility as often if candidates are employed it can be hard to schedule during typical work times. So I’d say it’s something to keep an eye on but I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that this means anything about the work life once you’re hired

  33. HannahS*

    OP3, as a phenomenally staid and predictable person who cancelled her wedding and eloped in early 2020 (to someone I’d been dating for 8 months) I think people will care less than you think. One’s own wedding is important; one’s coworker’s wedding tends not to occupy much thought, especially if you’re not someone who talks about it all the time.

    I would tell people around the time that you book the time off, “Yes, I’ll be away in November; Helene and I decided to move our wedding up.” If you’re comfortable saying, “We wanted to make sure we can get married while we still can,” say that. If you’re not, and anyone asks why, you can just shrug and say, “We decided we didn’t want to wait so long to get married, so we’re just having something small.” I realize that the reasons behind your decision are deeply painful, but if you present at work as casual and happy about getting married, people will follow your lead.

  34. H.Regalis*

    LW1 – I have a player in one of my TTRPG games who’s like this, and I actually like her and even then it still is annoying to have to hack through conversational tangents like a human machete. I don’t have any better advice, but keep doing what you’re doing in the meetings you run, and however you can appropriately nudge your boss in that direction, please do it. I’ve been in plenty of meetings with people who either can’t shut up or else just looooooove to hear themselves talk, and it is so much better when the meeting runner reins them in. Thank you for that.

  35. CzechMate*

    LW 3 – I’m so sorry you have to think about that, but congratulations on your upcoming wedding! Wishing you and your future spouse nothing but the best.

  36. A Simple Narwhal*

    #2 has really made me think.

    We often gripe about the interview process, which usually requires taking time off of work. It’s interesting to consider the option to avoid interviewing during work hours, which of course means the interviewers will have to work during off hours. Which isn’t a good reflection of work-life balance, even though they’re perhaps just trying to be respectful of your time! So in the end an interview will always require someone to sacrifice either their PTO or their free time, and at a glance there’s no way to know if someone works off-hours is a sign that the company is awful, or they’re trying to be good to interviewees!

    I suppose they could probably clarify “hey we want to be respectful of your time so if you’d prefer, we can make an evening or weekend interview work” to specify that they’re willing to work with your schedule and needs? ….but it might still make you nervous. Though I suppose it depends on what type of interview it is – I could easily see a manager be willing to take a phone interview in their off-hours, it’s different if it’s going to be an in-person interview with multiple people.

    I feel like I’m rambling in circles, but it’s definitely made me wonder.

    1. Lamont and Rollo*

      As someone who hires, I’ve done many interviews after hours if it works better for the candidate. To me this is very normal and as long as it’s presented as an option and not a requirement it should be looked at as a positive

    2. JustaTech*

      You’re right. I think that one thing most folks are picking up on is the whole ‘asking Friday afternoon and saying/implying Monday wasn’t soon enough’ – that might not have been the interviewer’s intention at all, but it’s not an uncommon read.

      The other is that most people in the sciences come from academia which is infamous for working people to the bone, so ‘weekend interview’ can conjure memories of professors who expected everyone to work *every* weekend, even if that’s not at all the case here.
      Once bitten, twice shy, and all that.

      I think that the language you suggested would put a lot of those fears to rest.

  37. Expectations*

    It’s also that they reached out late on a Friday and implied Monday may not be soon enough for them.

    1. Jackalope*

      Yeah, that’s the one part that makes me concerned about this. Normally I would have assumed that they were just trying to be flexible by offering weekend options (although I’m glad that everyone else presented the concerns with that in terms of what the expectations for said job might be). This part makes it more worrisome.

  38. Lake*

    LW3- I have a friend who just got married for similar reasons- she’s having the big party next fall so they have time to get a venue and all that. We live in Michigan but I don’t know how much protection that gives them anymore :(

  39. L_Rons_Cupboard*

    Letter #3 broke my heart a little, but I join everyone here in saying congratulations and best wishes for a wonderful life together.

  40. Serious Silly Putty*

    OP3- I know many people who have had a courthouse wedding/elopement when best for logistical reasons and plan a bigger celebration later. If that’s your plan (I realize it may not be!) then mentioning that may put people into more familiar territory. Ex:
    “We decided to get married while we know we can! We’ll plan a bigger celebration when my brother is back in town.”
    You don’t owe anybody that, but it may be an easy way to pivot conversations to the positive aspects.

    And sorry you have to deal with this at all.

    1. Dinwar*

      My spouse and I did that. I travel a lot for work, so we treated the courtroom part as taking care of the legal documents, not really a wedding–some as how going to the DMV is part of, but not, buying a car. We didn’t even tell anyone, we just took a weekday we both had off and went to the courthouse.

      Legally, after that, we were married, even if socially (and for us, religiously) we weren’t. And I can also tell you that this is important! My spouse was injured right before the celebration, and because I had that legal document signed I was allowed to see her. Even with the thing they tried to keep me away from her, because we weren’t married via a religious ceremony, but legally had no leg to stand on.

      That’s why I emphasize the “routine paperwork” part in my first paragraph. I don’t mean that it’s not important; it is. But it’s important for the lawyers and courts and the like.

      As an aside, while you’re in the courthouse look into power of attorney and any adoption documents you may need if you have kids. It’s going to be a pain, but can save grief down the road.

      1. Jackalope*

        In addition to PoA and adoption, make wills right away! That way if something happens to one of you, the other person will still inherit even if laws around same-sex marriage change.

  41. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    Ugh, its so sad that so much workplace advice for the foreseeable future is going to be — we don’t know what the you know who administration is going to do.

    I am not looking forward to years of chaos and uncertainty.

    1. JustaTech*

      Yup. I have a bunch of projects involving overseas suppliers and I’m not looking forward to being the one to ask in meetings “is someone running the numbers on this with regards to future tariffs?”.
      (Hilariously I once asked “will Brexit impact this?” and the person who should have been up to date on it said “What about breakfast?”. I literally head desked in the meeting.)
      But I’m going to do that and then just get back to doing the work because that’s all that *I* can do.

  42. Just Emergency Married*

    LW3: first of all, congratulations on your upcoming wedding! I hope you have a wonderful day. As other people mentioned, it is not uncommon – at least in my circles – to get married and save the big celebration for a later date.

    As someone who has done exactly what you are describing (I got an emergency gay wedding a month ago), I only have one word of advice: get ready for people telling you that you and your partner are overreacting. I was not prepared for the number of friends and family members (many of them very progressive!) who considered our emergency wedding a product of pure paranoia. Some truly believe that LGBT rights are not in danger at all. I know you and I are doing the right thing, but I was shocked at how much I found myself having these conversations with progressive friends and relatives.

    2. Silver Robin*

      I am so sorry you were dismissed like that. What an awful response to have from your community.

    3. MsM*

      I’m getting very frustrated by that, too. “I hope I’m wrong, but I’d rather plan for the worst and be pleasantly surprised” seems to work to at least get out of the conversation with most people, though.

      1. LizB*

        Exactly this. And then shouting in my head/to my safe people: obviously I’d effing love to be proven wrong, but the stakes are WAAAAY too high for me to take that risk!

    4. Observer*

      get ready for people telling you that you and your partner are overreacting. I was not prepared for the number of friends and family members (many of them very progressive!) who considered our emergency wedding a product of pure paranoia

      That’s why I suggested a bland “insurance reasons” – without even “because she’s a Fed in a targeted by the new administration.” Because that avoids people weighing in about whether you are “too worried” or not. There are a gazillion reasons why it might make sense for a couple to shift their insurance, or put themselves in a position to do so. Especially since “insurance” covers other stuff, like auto, homeowners / renters, etc.

      “Insurance reasons” is bland, it’s boring, it SOUNDS like you are offering information, but it also offers nothing but a blank for anyone who is inclined to have Opinions. There’s just nothing to have opinions about.

      1. Happily Retired*

        Well, it is a form of insurance, after all.

        OP#3 and her fiancée are insuring (assuring) that they will be legally married before their legal rights are possibly threatened.

    5. Happy*

      Oh, that’s so frustrating! I’m sorry you’re dealing with that.

      Congratulations on the marriage, though!

    6. NAFTAboy*

      I got a similar marriage in 2020 because I was similarly worried with the extra uncertainty of if my work visa would survive the new admin.

      Ultimately, I’m in a more secure place now, even though I *probably* would have been ok during that term and was similarly told not to panic. I’m glad we did it though. But being in a conservative state I don’t know what’s going to happen now and I”m more worried than ever about things getting overturned and where that’ll leave us.

    7. Ellis Bell*

      I don’t know how applicable this is for LGBTQ purposes, but I very much admired a friend’s handling of the word “paranoid” when she was dealing with some dismissive relatives when she left a controlling relationship. They clearly meant the “Obsessed and delusional” meaning of paranoid, but she kept deliberately misunderstanding them as using the “extremely fearful” meaning of paranoid. So, instead of saying “No, I’m not imagining this” she’d respond with “Yes, true, I’m very worried” or “Yes, somewhat. I definitely would like to feel more reassured about my safety”. She did say that a few pushed their definition to the point that she would simply say “I really hope you’re right”.

      1. Bruce*

        To quote Catch-22, “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you.” Hope for the best and prepare for something worse…

    8. Hroethvitnir*

      Absolutely wild that anyone can hear the words being said by the people who are going to be in power and… activate denial mode? Not *surprising*, but so frustrating.

      Congratulations, and good luck.

  43. Ann O'Nemity*

    #4 – My university is doing minimal preparation for the potential salary threshold changes, as they don’t expect them to take effect! It sounds like a lot of employers are doing the same. However, if the changes do go through, it will likely create significant challenges. There’s no budget allocated for overtime, salary adjustments for affected employees, or measures to prevent wage compression.

  44. epicdemiologist*

    Best wishes, letter writer #3, from a proud new mother-in-law (my daughter and her fiance tied the knot on Halloween)!

  45. Alex*

    #4 My guess is that they have no intention of paying you for extra work at conventions. I’ve seen this too many times, even when workers WERE officially hourly, companies would convince the workers that conventions and conferences didn’t count, or to try to illegally give “comp time” that would build up over months but never get used. Nevermind that these were often long, 12+ days. So be prepared to make a fuss when you aren’t getting correctly paid.

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      Or, shift even more work to the remaining salaried workers to avoid paying overtime to the now non-exempt staff. Legal, but it sucks.

  46. blood orange*

    OP #3 – I had a coworker years ago announce his wedding pretty abruptly. I think it was a month or two notice. It was extra surprising because his wife had just passed away, and we had no idea he was seeing someone else. There was a little bit of surprised chatter, but it was much more about the timing of his wife’s passing and marrying someone else. He’s someone with a reputation for being a planner as well. I don’t know your workforce, of course, but other than some surprise, I think people will mostly think things happen as they do and move on.

  47. Clementine*

    Probably a minority opinion, but I would be delighted to have the option of a weekend interview. It’s such a pain to try to schedule time off work, and very stressful. I would assume that the interviewer will take some flex time to accommodate the weekend work.

  48. Paris Geller*

    OP3- I’m sorry for why you’re in this situation, but I do want to join the others offering you congratulations! I hope you’re still able to make the day celebratory.

  49. SparkyMcDragon*

    OP #3 – If y’all are getting married in a state that will lose gay marriage as soon as obergfell falls you should consider getting another license in a state where marriage is legal according to state law. (Like the one I live in). The current wording of Respect for Marriage says that states have to acknowledge marraiges which are legal in other states and at the time was passed bipartisanly.

  50. Westside Story*

    Re: overtime. Two companies in my industry, which is notorious for low pay and frequent overtime’s, made a big deal of announcing entry level salaries of $45K. Now I see why.

  51. Timothy (TRiG)*

    #5 but worse happened to me. I was hired on a six-month job to cover maternity leave, and on my third day was told that another part of the business had layoffs, and they were transferring one of those employees in, and I wouldn’t be needed after all. I worked one more day after that.

  52. Forrest Rhodes*

    OP #3: First, I hate like heck that things in general have come to this, and that the situation is having such a direct affect on your life.

    Second, if anyone is dim enough, disconnected enough, or rude enough to ask why you’re moving up the wedding, I’d think an appropriate answer is: “Because we want to!”

    And third, this never-legally-married, cis-het old broad is raising a glass of orange juice to toast you, and tossing handsful of confetti skyward to wish you and your partner a wonderful wedding day and a long, joyous life together.

  53. Wedding Caker*

    LW 3, I work in the wedding industry in an LGBTQ+ friendly state that is also a popular destination wedding location. A LOT of couples are moving up their wedding dates right now. Best of luck to you and your fiance!

  54. Seen Too Much*

    LW4 – If you are all remote across the US – please note that some states have a higher threshold than the feds do. I would urge you to check each state you are in. Also, in addition to the salary test there is a duties test. If you are paying an admin, or customer service rep as non-exempt, you will probably be out of compliance. If you don’t have an HR department, I would urge you to speak to your company’s labor lawyer. There are online websites, but they can be hard to navigate. Trust me, a company I worked at got a huge fine for paying customer service reps a salary. Plus all of the reps received back pay for the overtime they missed. It is worth checking it out.

  55. Bruce*

    LW3: If it helps, my wife and I got engaged in early 2019, talked about a 2020 wedding then in March asked ourselves “why wait?” and I got a wedding organized for June 2019. Not under the same pressures as you are facing, but wow, I’m glad we didn’t wait! Best wishes and have a happy and joyful day!

  56. Lentils*

    Just sending solidarity and love to OP3 – my now-wife and I did this too, in 2016. Obviously the circumstances now are even more distressing, but if it helps, every time I explain our wedding I just shrug and go “we wanted to make sure our health insurance and beneficiary stuff were covered” and people usually get my meaning. I can say that it is really, really nice to be able to say “my wife” even amidst all the horrible shit happening.

  57. MrsBagnet*

    I have two co-workers who regularly derail meetings by going off on tangents and not knowing when to stop talking, and one of them is my boss. I dread our team meetings.

  58. Rep (taylor’s version)*

    Last letter: our newest person started in January after a looooong hiring process, including a virtual interview that was cancelled 5 minutes before it started because our director absolutely refused to let me boss out of a meeting that they weren’t required to be at, and made her cancel the interview. Our new coworker was PISSED, but when we informed him that is was our now-departed director, he said that made sense, but of course being on the other side, he didn’t know what it meant for his potential position here.

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