update: I was asked to take down a family photo

by Alison Green on December 9, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer who, as the only gay man in his department, was asked to take down a photo of his baby? Here’s the update.

Shortly after I wrote to you, I talked to HR and asked if there were any rules regarding desk decor and photos displayed. There were not, and they advised me to talk to my manager. I was increasingly upset by the matter, and had several sleepless nights. So, I did ask my manager for a follow-up 1:1 to let her know that I complied and took down the photo, to ask if specific replacement photos were “acceptable,” and to convey my feelings of being targeted.

She was more nervous than I was at the meeting, but her response was largely that she was required to address the matter if someone felt uncomfortable. I asked her if she asked the person what specifically was bothering them about the photo, and she said that she did not. I told her that I’ve encountered prejudice before as a gay parent and that this felt similar. She encouraged me to put up any other photos as long as there was no nudity. I asked how nudity was being defined, because you could not see any butt or genitalia in the photo. I asked if a photo I had of him in a bubble bath was okay, that a nipple might be seen. That the tub blocked him from the waist down so as far as anyone knows he may be wearing a swimsuit. She said that was fine. What if I kept the same photo up but placed a “CENSORED” note over any parts that would imply nudity? She said that would be fine.

I said, “Isn’t it a bit ridiculous to try to parse out what someone else may be finding objectionable?” I said that I was disturbed that this person wasn’t questioned, that their discomfort was catered to, but no one seemed equally concerned how I might feel to be asked to censor a photo of my son.

I documented the discussion and had plans to put up several (non-nude) photos of my son in response. I fantasized about keeping the photo up but placing a note over part of it that read “I feel sorry for small-minded people” but ultimately my heart wasn’t in it. I didn’t want any more controversy.

Word spread among coworkers about my situation and everyone was very supportive of me. A few put similar “nude but no genitalia” photos of their own kids, or an Anne Geddes photo, as their computer monitor’s wallpaper. No one noticed or complained about that.

For about a month I felt sad, and angry, and paranoid, but eventually I let it go. I never did find out who complained. Despite all of that, I have continued to grow and thrive in my position at the company, and “exceeded expectations” at my last review.

Thank you for answering my initial query and for asking for an update on my situation. I had never seen the comments to my situation on your site before now. It was interesting to see the varied points of view, and I felt validated to see that most felt that there was probably some homophobia and prejudice at play, or at the very least it was badly handled.

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  1. Successful Birthday Rememberer*

    That’s frustrating and your manager has all the sense of a doorstop. I would have absolutely put up a photo of my kids like this in solidarity with you. I am glad you got some support.

    1. WellRed*

      That manager was an… oh, never mind. I’ll be nice. Congrats to OP for not letting her off the hook.

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      Exactly right – and OP’s “don’t understand why their discomfort was prioritized over mine” is exactly the right approach.

    3. MozartBookNerd*

      I agree, kudos to OP on “don’t understand why their discomfort was prioritized over mine.” That’s dignified and civil but also quietly righteous in a nicely constructive way.

      Thank you OP, and solidarity from an Internet stranger.

  2. I should really pick a name*

    The manager was really weird about this one.

    They would have been on solid ground if they simply went with “the baby must be wearing at least a diaper”.

    By saying all those other scenarios are fine, they’re admitting that they’re completely winging it which makes it much easier for the LW if they want to escalate this.

    1. Resentful Oreos*

      That’s a sensible policy to apply to family photos *company wide* for *all* employees – “bathing suit areas must be covered” or “baby must be wearing at least a diaper.” Note I said *all* employees. Not “pick and choose on the basis of whether they are nice heterosexual church going married couples or not.”

      The manager sounded way out of her depth. I got a whiff of either this person was completely out of their depth (new and not trained at all), or else she was completely inept.

      1. Zona the Great*

        I can’t imagine a reasonable workplace that actually thought they’d need to make a company-wide policy regarding family photos.

        1. KateM*

          Yeah, a reasonable workplace would not imagine the need to specify that nude photos ar not OK to display.

            1. Caramel & Cheddar*

              I know what you’re actually asking, but I’d love to never see another Anne Geddes photo, personally!

            2. Observer*

              Do you think Anne Geddes photos should be banned?

              In the workplace? Yes.

              The problem is that it’s just not relevant. You can either ban them or not. But you can’t let some up and not others.

        2. Observer*

          I can’t imagine a reasonable workplace that actually thought they’d need to make a company-wide policy regarding family photos

          Yeah. But once you’ve made someone take down their photos, you need to make sure that you are doing so in a reasonably even handed manner. And in this case, it sounds like they very much were not.

      2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

        Did I miss something? In the original, it didn’t say that heterosexual people were allowed to put up naked baby pics, just that he felt that a woman wouldn’t be asked to take them down.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          Not in the original letter, but in this update:

          A few [coworkers] put similar “nude but no genitalia” photos of their own kids, or an Anne Geddes photo, as their computer monitor’s wallpaper. No one noticed or complained about that.

          Presumably some or all of those coworkers are straight, and that’s why no one has complained about their baby photos.

          1. Cmdrshprd*

            I am not 100% clear on the meaning of this sentence:

            :A few [coworkers] put similar “nude but no genitalia” photos of their own kids, or an Anne Geddes photo, as their computer monitor’s wallpaper.”

            The coworkers put up photos as their wall paper, or they put up “nude but no genitalia” photos up on their desk?

            In the original letter OP was asked to take a photo (in a photo stand/frame) down off their desk. Versus the solidarity coworkers who put the photos as their wall paper.

            IMO a photo on a wall paper desktop is very different than a photo on a desk. When I am working or even at home I rarely see my desktop wall paper, because it is covered up by active windows/screens. If people are in an office I would say it would be even less likely for other people to see their desktop.
            Versus OP having a picture on their desk that might be seen by people.

            I do think they need to enforce the rules equally, if they make a no “nude kid photos” even if it is implied nudity like a kid in bubble bath.

            1. KateM*

              Also, seems that they only put up them as a support to OP. There is no mention of anyone else having a nude photo before.

      3. Observer*

        The manager sounded way out of her depth. I got a whiff of either this person was completely out of their depth (new and not trained at all), or else she was completely inept.

        Very much so.

        That’s a sensible policy to apply to family photos *company wide* for *all* employees

        Yeah. And the fact that others put up photos that were similar enough that people other than the LW thought that they were the same kind is *really* exposing the company to legal peril. Because even in the best case that the original complaint had nothing to do with homophbia, but just someone who left shorty thereafter, which would explain why there were no further complaints, there is a clear case of “this person was treated differently from other people not in his category.” Explaining that, and making is stick, is going to cost… And that assumes best case, which is just not likely.

        Which is why I think that ineptness is a real possibility on everyone’s part. Because *smart and competent* HR know better than to let their (or manager’s) personal ideas over-ride the legal obligations of the company.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      Very weird, and less than confident. The manager never asked the complaining person what made them uncomfortable, and they never made an across the board rule so that OP wouldn’t be singled out. This is a manager who is at the mercy of random whims, and quite likely at the mercy of people’s prejudices.

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        or shares those prejudices. She jumped to “well, yes, a man having a picture of a baby on his desk COULD be inappropriate. I see what you are saying,” and immediately went to coworker with, “well, I hate to say this, but OF COURSE YOU UNDERSTAND, so thanks.”

  3. The Wizard Rincewind*

    I’m sorry that this shook LW’s sense of peace about his job, and I think it was absolutely correct to gently hand-hold your manager through why this landed so badly with you (though silly that you should have to, to be clear). Hopefully, that will prompt your manager to step back from a similar problem in the future and think through it more before jumping into action.

    1. Observer*

      Hopefully, that will prompt your manager to step back from a similar problem in the future and think through it more before jumping into action

      The manager and HR. Because the whole thing was not well handled.

      I do get that HR needs to respond to and deal with people’s discomfort. But there also have to be some limits and some thought about how this stuff is handled. And no one seems to have thought this through.

      1. StarTrek Nutcase*

        IMO a certain amount of discomfort is acceptable in the workplace. As adults, surely we can acknowledge we’re all unique and feelings (discomfort) are part of life. We should be adult enough to save our need for relief to serious matters.

        As a supervisor, such a complaint would have me telling complainer it wasn’t porn, to stop worrying about their coworker’s desk and focus on their own work. This is different from discomfort working next to a woman in a see-through blouse & no bra or a man with horrendous b.o., working with a convicted murderer (served his time) or physical threats – all I did deal with as a supervisor.

  4. Na$ty Larry*

    I hate how homophobia and other forms of bigotry are often placated without question. I doubt you were ever going to find out who complained, but maybe you can take some small comfort in what seems like the majority of your office pushing back and supporting you. Your hurt as a response to the lack of complaints for your coworkers’ showing of solidarity is notable and a learning moment to me, as a cis straight person. Sometimes what we (purported allies) think is support and solidarity and support only further proves how different things are for you as the marginalized individual.

    I hope that the meeting you had with your manager becomes a catalyst for her to question and confront her own and the company’s own biases and that you continue thriving and feel more supported by not only your coworkers but also management.

    1. Don't Send Your Kids to Hudson University*

      I would love for the manager to learn that addressing one employee’s discomfort about something in the workplace does not always require (and often should not involve) brining the matter to another employee’s attention. Bill is uncomfortable that Jane has too many personal photos in her office? Manager should first be sorting out whether Jane is behaving in a way that impacts her work or is inconsistent with company policies. If there’s nothing to tell Jane to correct, then the action for Manager to take is a conversation with Bill about adjusting his own expectations or offering support if there’s something more going in. In that example, Jane never needs to be involved.

      1. Disappointed Australien*

        I’m pretty sure we’ve had reports here of managers saying to underlings “I am required to officially tell you that there has been a complaint. You have now been officially informed and this officially concludes the matter”. Sometimes they even say what the complaint was, or that no change is required from the underling.

        I’ve definitely had a manager say to me “some people are not happy that you ride your bicycle to work. HR require me to tell you that, but you’re allowed to do it so they can {Australian vernacular not suitable for US workplaces}”. That was weird, but felt like political games within the management hierarchy. Job was otherwise fine.

    2. ferrina*

      Yeah, if I had to guess, I’d think that some unconscious homophobia played into both the original complaint and the manager’s response to it (and possibly HR’s response). I’m glad that OP pushed back, because I think that made the manager and possibly the complainer realize that they had been acting on internalize homophobia. But what an absolutely awful experience for OP! I’m so sorry this happened.

      1. Dahlia*

        Just as an FYI, internalized homophobia would mean that the manager/complainer were also gay. This is just regular homophobia.

  5. Almost Empty Nester*

    Bravo that your coworkers supported you in solidarity! I suspect your manager was behaving awkwardly because they knew they shouldn’t have asked you to remove the photo.

  6. Momma Bear*

    I honestly wonder if the person was actually the manager who let it go after that conversation. Or if she belatedly realized that this might be targeted against a gay employee which is a whole different matter and didn’t want to have her own talk with HR. I’m glad LW is overall doing well at his job and hope there are no more instances like this in the future. Glad some of his coworkers had his back, too.

      2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        I don’t think it was the manager’s own. It was just a bad manager who went, welp, someone complained have to do something. Instead of questioning the complainer and finding out how exactly the photo was a problem.

        Too many managers do this. They feel they have to act on each and every complaint and pass it along to the complained about person. Instead of looking ath the complainee and saying, that’s a you problem.

        1. Person from the Resume*

          Yes. This comes up in lots of AAM letters.

          Sometimes the manager even state they do not agree with the complaint, but just wants to pass the invalid anonymous complaint on.

          I understand why the LW may feel singled out, but no naked photos including cute naked baby pictures is reasonable policy.

          Companies should not have to set policy for this, but once someone complains it’s a perfectly reasonable policy for all people. While the LW presented hypotheticals to their boss, he did not say that anyone else was displaying similar photos before he got other people on board with a protest of sorts.

    2. Sloanicota*

      I admit I had the same thought just because she seemed so insistent on this, it’s a bit weird. Doesn’t mean I’m right though.

  7. Resentful Oreos*

    LW’s manager has a spine of overcooked spaghetti. She’s not the sharpest pencil, either; at least in my state there’d be potential lawsuit material if a married and heterosexual person could put up baby pictures but a LGBT parent got “objections.” It’s possible those objections came from someone who is a C-suite golden child or other company favorite who has to be coddled and catered to; or maybe LW’s manager is just inept.

    Either way, I’m glad his coworkers are in support of him and his family. Put up those family photos, LW!

    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      It’s possible those objections came from someone who is a C-suite golden child or other company favorite who has to be coddled

      That’s how it sounds to me. LW’s manager is trying to balance “this person deserves answers” with “the truth puts my head on the chopping block.”

  8. Abogado Avocado*

    LW, I am so sorry you had to endure both bigotry and bad management, although I am also happier that you have coworkers who validated and supported you by putting up their own similar photos.

  9. Writergal*

    Your manager is ridiculous, especially with her statement that they have to take every situation seriously. Not all complaints have to dealt with as if it’s a life and death situation. She should be using her personal judgment more wisely. Or the complaint is from her because she finds it inappropriate.

    I wouldn’t think anything of it if I saw those pictures.

    You know what’s inappropriate? When I worked retail, I had coworkers who were high schoolers and college students openly guessing other people’s sexuality on and off the sales floor.

    1. I should really pick a name*

      Also, taking a complaint seriously doesn’t always mean doing what the complainer wants.

      1. Resentful Oreos*

        I think a lot of managers miss that part. Yes, of course you take an employee complaint seriously. No, not all complaints are deserving of action. There are a lot of bigoted or just groundless complaints that can be fobbed off with “I’ll look into that.” The problems come when a legitimate and *work related* complaint (“Jane never answers her email or voice mail messages,” “Fergus has a screen saver picture of dismembered dead bodies”) gets waved away.

        1. Aelswitha*

          Yes, this.

          My supervisor: “Somebody complained you were pretty grumpy before you went on leave.” “Grumpy how, exactly?” “Well, they didn’t say.” Yup, and you didn’t bother to ask. The leave, by the way, was because I’d just been diagnosed with depression and ordered off work for four weeks, which supervisor knew. I’d ben back at work for less than 5 minutes when he addressed the “complaint.”

      2. Observer*

        Also, taking a complaint seriously doesn’t always mean doing what the complainer wants.

        Yes. That’s what is really boggling my mind.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      And “I had to act because somebody complained,” with the implication that she wouldn’t have done anything if they hadn’t really opens the door for groups like minorities to be treated inequitably, because the reality is there are people who will make a complaint about a gay person having a picture like this but not a straight person or who will complain about a woman dressing “too casually” but not about a man who dresses equally casually and so on.

      And the fact that nobody cared about the coworkers putting up similar photos indicates that is exactly what is happening here.

      The manager sounds like the type that just gives in to whoever shouts loudest. I’ve had a couple of bosses like that, one of whom apparently told the P.E. teacher she couldn’t take a group out to play in a match or something because people would get mad at him if he asked them to cover her classes.

      Except that’s just inconvenient whereas this…seems to head into treating people differently based on sexuality, given the lack of complaints about the coworkers.

  10. Aurora*

    Not sure that’s relevant to desk photos. People were asking my dad if I’d gone to school yet when I was at university, he just never changed a desk photo he liked of me when I was 4.

  11. CubeFarmer*

    My money is on the manager being the one who was offended, and creating the “anonymous complaint” as a cover story.

  12. Fitzie's chew toy*

    Years ago I was showing photos of my one year old son around the faculty room. A few were of him running around naked after his bath, laughing with his hair sticking up crazily. One of my closest teacher friends was horrified and wouldn’t look. I was so surprised that I actually questioned her. She had seven children and had NEVER taken a picture of them naked. She was a devout Morman. I said, God made them perfect like this. She still couldn’t look. I’m sorry the writer was questioned about his child’s picture but there are just some weird people out there. In a million years I wouldn’t have thought my friend would react this way.
    Please put up an adorable picture of your child. It may have happened because you’re gay or it may not. I was a straight woman in my 40’s when my seemingly sensible friend reacted to my son’s photo.

    1. TheLoaf*

      There are things that are too private to share beyond certain circles (family vs friends vs coworkers vs the internet). I think when it comes to photo and video, it’s too easy to show anyone everything. Look deep in your heart and ask “would I be okay with my colleague coming over and seeing my kid running around sans clothes?”. That should guide your actions of how you present your child to the world.

      1. Dinwar*

        “Look deep in your heart and ask “would I be okay with my colleague coming over and seeing my kid running around sans clothes?”.”

        Yes.

        I agree with Nirvana on this one (see below). If my coworker treated this as anything other than a perfectly normal part of parenthood, I would instantly have deep misgivings about my coworker. I’ve dealt with enough predators in my life, anyone who even gives a hint of such behavior will be escorted out of my home immediately and be rather pointedly informed that they are not welcome back under any circumstances.

        Plus, I have far more concerning things in my home than an occasional naked baby. Books on how to strip flesh off bones, for example, along with material to do so (it’s called maceration, useful in a variety of scientific disciplines, including paleontology). A few suits of armor. Some of the ritual garb. Even some of the pets we have would cause (have caused) alarm. My coffee HAS offended some of my coworkers (I take the view that you should be able to catch photons after two cups, otherwise it’s too weak). Believe me, my coworkers know enough about me that “naked baby” wouldn’t even register as weird to them.

        Seriously, babies and toddlers running around naked is a common thing. Cloths are something you learn to use. For most of us we learned around the time we learned to walk, so it’s deeply embedded in us, but it’s still a learned behavior. And it’s normal for people learning a behavior to screw it up. If you’re that easily offended that you’re offended by a normal part of childhood, don’t visit parents of young children.

        1. TheLoaf*

          You are taking the idea that not everyone wants to see your kids naked to be some sort of personal insult. Guess what? I also don’t want to hear what you think are funny stories about your baby pooping, or the colors of the mucus coming out of their nose, or that your child just got dumped by their first boyfriend/girlfriend. Those are all personal things that should stay with your family.

        2. Caramel & Cheddar*

          I think you’re conflating the behaviour of the children with the behaviour of adults. No one is saying “it’s weird and uncommon for babies/toddlers to run around naked.” What people are saying is that adults need to act in the interests of those kids and treat them like people with their own boundaries who are deserving of respect. Kids are their own people and it’s weird that we forget that just because something they do or say might be “cute.”

        3. metadata minion*

          I am totally fine seeing my niece and nephew running around naked, or the child of a close friend. I would not be ok with seeing a picture of a random coworker’s naked child. In the culture I live in, naked children are a normal thing *in the context of a private home*. I don’t expect to see random naked children in public places. I wouldn’t be utterly scandalized or anything if a toddler decided that clothing was an intolerable oppression today and undressed in the middle of the park, but I would politely look away until the parents got some pants on them.

      2. Moose*

        I actually prefer to think about it as “Would I be comfortable with my co-workers seeing another adult without clothes?”

        Apparently I’m raring to talk about this today but I think the double standard of “I would never display a naked picture of another adult but it’s ok when it’s a baby” to be really uncomfortable. Just because someone is a baby doesn’t mean we get ownership over their body. Babies are humans. Humans should have the right to decide when and where someone sees their naked bodies. We shouldn’t be taking that away from them just because they’re babies. To me it’s not about sexualizing pictures of babies, it’s about respecting their inherent rights as humans.

        I think it’s totally fine for parents to have naked pictures of their kids and to show them to select people. I just don’t think that anyone should be showing a picture of a child that they would not want shown of themselves. Yes, I know that my feelings about this are way outside of the norm. Yes, I know (general) you disagree with me and think I am a puritan. No, I do not care.

        1. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

          I think it goes beyond “a picture of a child that they would not want shown of themselves,” or even whether I would be “comfortable with my co-workers seeing another adult without clothes,” and not because I’m a puritan.

          I have shown/displayed naked pictures of myself, but not at work. I flagged my LiveJournal and Dreamwidth accounts as “not safe for work” because a few of the posts contain nude photos of me. Not only did I pose for the photos, I decided which I wanted to post. Those photos exist because I was happy to model for a photographer friend, and the friend has my explicit OK to show those photos to other people.

        2. Resentful Oreos*

          That is how I feel. Not “naked is bad” but “babies are people, not dolls or pets.” It is about respecting their rights and boundaries.

      3. Red Rose*

        I’d be fine with it. I’d also be fine with my very small child running around naked in their own backyard or while camping or at the beach. I totally understand being uncomfortable with baby and toddler nudity but that is far from universal.

    2. Lurker*

      I would be deeply uncomfortable seeing a photo of a coworker’s baby/toddler/child without any clothes on.

      2. Ping*

        Same. I’ve never understood why people find these cute or funny. In the LW’s case, where there was nothing below the waist showing, that’s fine, but I wouldn’t want to see anybody’s streaking toddler.

      3. Resentful Oreos*

        Same here. And I would be deeply unamused if I learned that my mom was showing unclothed pictures of ME all around her workplace, after the fact. Just because I’m a toddler doesn’t mean I’m not a person with some kind of boundaries!

        Of course these standards need to apply to all employees, not just some. That’s the issue wiht the LW, he was singled out for the picture of his son because LW is a gay dad. *That* is what is wrong with the manager.

        1. Observer*

          Of course these standards need to apply to all employees, not just some. That’s the issue wiht the LW, he was singled out for the picture of his son because LW is a gay dad. *That* is what is wrong with the manager

          I’m repeating this, because I think it’s *so* important. That is the real heart of the problem here. The problem is not that the LW was asked to take down the photo, but that *only* the LW was asked to do so.

          That’s a double whammy, to me. On the one hand no one there seems to think that these photos could constitute a legitimate issue. On the other hand, somehow only *one* person is being critiqued on the matter. Both of which are a problem on their own.

      4. misspiggy*

        I was pretty uncomfortable when I went to work at my dad’s company and all his colleagues were familiar with me from the naked baby photo on his wall… So for that reason I’m Team Be Conservative with what you share at work!

        1. Resentful Oreos*

          Aaaand this is why I tend to come down on the side of “under-sharenting” rather than “over-sharenting.” Kids grow up. And even before they’re adults, I think they deserve some sort of respect for their personhood and boundaries.

          Sometimes that cute, unclothed baby in the picture grows up to be your coworker, even! And I bet it’s embarrassing all around.

          1. Caramel & Cheddar*

            I keep thinking of the kids who were content fodder for parenting blogs 10-15 years ago who are now teens/adults or kids of social media influencers now, some of whom are even taking legal action against their parents. Obviously your cubicle is not a blog on the internet, but just because the “page views” are significantly fewer doesn’t suddenly make it okay to share stuff they might find embarrassing as they get older.

            1. Resentful Oreos*

              That’s my feeling on it. I’m glad I grew up before the social media era. Babies and children are people, not dolls or pets. They get to have some boundaries and autonomy. (Yes, I know your toddler has to put on clothes to go to daycare, etc. and sometimes you have to wrestle them into those clothes, but that’s not what I’m talking about here.)

              People show the kind of pictures of their kids that they’d never show to other adults (except maybe family or close friends) and *that* is what gives me pause, not clothes or lack thereof.

      5. HBJ*

        I would be uncomfortable as well. I am a parent, and I have NEVER taken a naked photo of my children. Nothing to do with religion. It has to do with not wanting those photos out there in a digital world where things can be seen and found and used for bad purposes. I also multiple adult family members who are incredibly uncomfortable when their family photo albums (from the days before digital) with nude photos of them as children are taken out and shown around.

        I find it appalling when people post photos of babies in the tub with nothing but a tiny little emoji over their crotch.

        1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

          I have a single photo of my son undressed, and it is taken from the back with him holding the diaper he had just managed to wriggle out of. It is for me only; I’ve never shown anyone but his father and other mother, and I would never post it anywhere. It’s a funny memory to me, but I don’t think it is appropriate to share it everywhere.

      6. Pizza Rat*

        It’s not my cup of tea either. The LW’s picture, though, didn’t show genitalia or even a bare bottom.

        I find it pretty hard to believe that the complaint wasn’t related to the LW being gay.

      1. Kyrielle*

        I was assuming it was butt-cheeks, not full-frontal, but I don’t think my kids would (when grown) want my coworkers to have seen photos of their backside, either. Naked kid after bath with spiky hair can be cropped to waist-up if you want to share it.

    4. Rainy*

      I think if you want to take photos of your children naked that’s fine, do you, but if someone doesn’t want to look at a photo of your naked child, they’re not doing something wrong and they don’t deserve to be chided.

    5. Ellis Bell*

      People’s home life, culture and nudity rules that they’re familiar with vary wildly, even with kids. With the original letter, I didn’t find the ban on nudity all that strange (I’ve come across this chasm before; from people who wouldn’t care if you met their naked child in the flesh, and those who think photographing a naked shoulder is disrespectful to the child). The thing that was strange and concerning about these letters was how OP was singled out.

    7. Belle Jolie*

      It’s a little weird that you find it weird that your friend didn’t want to look at a nude photo of your child.

    8. Irish Teacher.*

      I think it is absolutely reasonable that your coworker didn’t want to look at the picture. I don’t see anything weird about that. People have different comfort zones. Nor is it in the least bit odd that she didn’t take photos of her kids naked. It’s not weird to do so, but it’s not any more weird not to.

      The issue with the LW’s situation isn’t that some of his coworkers were uncomfortable seeing a picture of a naked child. That’s perfectly reasonable and honestly, I would say that “no photos of naked children, even if the private parts aren’t visible” would be a reasonable rule for a workplace. What is problematic here is the way the LW’s manager seems to be winging it and allowing some situations and not others. By making decisions based on whether or not there is a complaint risking minorities being treated differently from other groups since people with prejudices could find reasons to report them.

      I hope you didn’t try to push your friend to look at a photograph that made her uncomfortable. There is nothing at all wrong with her not wanting to look at it and it would be wrong to judge her for not wanting to or try to push her into doing something she didn’t want to. Just as it would be wrong to push her to look at your pet spider if she had a phobia of them.

    9. Anona NO*

      Hi! 39-year-old mother of two who has never shown naked pictures of my children to anyone. I think they’re perfect, but also they are actual humans who should have some say over who sees them naked and until they are old enough to make that decision themselves it’s on me which is why — no one sees naked pictures of my kids.

      Your poor coworker isn’t the weird one in this story.

      1. Resentful Oreos*

        And I agree with you on the reasons for showing clothed pictures only. Kids are people, and they shouldn’t be subjected to unnecessary embarrassment. Especially now that social media is forever, and the first wave of “over sharented” kids is growing up.

    10. ubotie*

      I mean, I think it’s a little weird that you kept pushing your friend to do something she wasn’t comfortable with and then tried to pull a “religious people—they crazy, amirite??????” over it too.

      It sucks that the LW was singled out for his orientation but I’ll be honest, I’m not sure I’ve ever actually come across coworkers (gay or straight) putting up unclothed pictures of their kids at work. So the way everyone is doubling down on that is a little weird to me. Parents typically have like 5000 clothed photos of their kids, especially nowadays and it’s easy as heck to get them printed out. So all yall parents can’t just put up those photos at work instead?
      (And yes, I’m also not a fan of the Anne Geddes stuff either–it just seems tacky for some reason).

    11. Anonymous ex-infant*

      I’ve met enough people who were my parents’ friends and coworkers when I was a baby that I now think of it in terms of ‘what would kid be most comfortable with in 20 years?’
      I work in the same field as my dad, who has been in the same job for decades. It’s deeply, deeply uncomfortable to meet people at conferences who I know have seen photos of me naked and heard poop/vomit/mucus stories about me, even if I was a baby at the time.
      Kids deserve dignity too because kids will be adults someday.
      If I’m at a friend’s house and their kid decides to run around naked, that’s the kid’s decision, I don’t have a problem with it, but I will also never mention it again.

  13. Dinwar*

    “Isn’t it a bit ridiculous to try to parse out what someone else may be finding objectionable?”

    That’s one of my problems with the way a lot of anti-hostile-workplace laws are written. What qualifies as objectionable is entirely up to the person who is offended, or worse, up to the person who thinks other people could be offended. I get why this is the case–the vast majority of the time it’s going to be legitimate complaints, like calendars with women in bikinis on them, that sort of thing. But it does allow hostile actors to co-opt the regs to harass the folks these rules and laws were intended to protect.

    The de facto rule in our culture is that the person who complains makes the rules. And frankly the people doing most of the complaining are the ones with the least to complain about.

    The problem is that any solution requires HR to be able to say “This objection is frivolous”, which opens HR and the company up to lawsuits. And it’d be pretty easy to co-opt HR to enforce specific beliefs.

    So I guess what I’m saying is, I can very much sympathize with this view. I just don’t know how to fix it.

  14. BridgeofFire*

    As an aside, the temptation to put a snarky censorship sticker is something that happened in real life. Due to concerns about the nude baby on the cover of Nirvana’s “Nevermind” album, the record label wanted to cover it up for displaying on shelves. The only thing Kurt Cobain would allow was a strategically placed sticker that read “If you are offended by this, you’re probably a pedo.”

    The album remained uncensored.

    2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      Interestingly, the now-grown kid from that image sued Nirvana a couple years ago claiming it was CSAM. (He lost). But this situation – no genitals, and displayed by a parent in a closed location, is very different.

  15. Zona the Great*

    I wonder how on earth anyone handled the Nirvana album cover? Were they scandalized at the Sam Goody?

    1. H.Regalis*

      It was somewhat controversial at the time. The record company did come up with an alternate cover, but Kurt Cobain pushed really hard to use the original one. I wouldn’t be surprised if some record stores censored it. Electriclarryland by Butthole Surfers has an alternate cover.

    3. LawLady*

      Well, the baby from that Nirvana album cover grew up and sued (unsuccessfully) because he felt that the use of his naked baby picture on the album was sexual exploitation.

      I don’t think it’s particularly pearl clutching to feel uncomfortable with pictures of naked babies, recognizing that they grow up and are whole humans.

      1. ElliottRook*

        It was probably unsuccessful because he’d spent years making money doing appearances as the Nirvana Album Baby, but man, even the legal system should allow for “when we know better, we do better.”

  16. Aelswitha*

    I’ve noticed that “anonymous complaint” and “weak manager” generally seem to go together.

  17. Moose*

    I wouldn’t have complained but I really really do not like naked pictures of babies being displayed outside of very specific circumstances. Yes, this includes those Anne Geddes calendars. Actually it especially includes those Anne Geddes calendars. I am more uncomfortable with those than naked pictures of babies of people I know. I keep my mouth shut and I ignore them because I have accepted I am basically alone in the world with this but I deeply dislike them. They make me uncomfortable for a variety of reasons.

    It sounds like it went way too far at your workplace tho. Sorry it got so out of hand.

    1. Kyrielle*

      If the person who had been uncomfortable had also complained about all the other photos from people in or presumed to be in heterosexual relationships, I’d have a lot more charity with them. (And maybe they did, but the manager handled it differently *because* of the conversation OP had with them…but if so that’s still leaving the wrong impression, and honestly, I doubt it’s how it happened.)

      1. Moose*

        Yeah I’m definitely not doubting OP that this was motivated by homophobia. OP knows OP’s situation better than I do.

    2. Resentful Oreos*

      Anne Geddes is the visual equivalent of Karo syrup to me. Terribly saccharine, but hey, that’s to some people’s taste. I prefer cute kitten pictures. To each their own, though, and I wouldn’t complain about a picture on someone’s desk unless it was a Joan-like situation where she put up a picture of a dead cat just to be nasty.

      It’s clear here that the problem wasn’t the baby, it was that someone was being homophobic and the manager was not managing well.

      3. Anonymous ex-infant*

        I don’t like Anne Geddes photos because I don’t like seeing naked pictures of people who are not capable of consenting to those pictures being published in books and calendars and spread across the globe but sure, I’m the weird one here.

  18. Slaw*

    So, you’re *assuming* that people would be okay with this if it was a straight woman who put the photo up, but there’s nothing in your story suggesting there were other similar photos that were up. Like, Idk man, it’s a dumb thing to fight about, but I think you’re making it about something it wasn’t. Even if you can’t see anything – it’s kind of common sense that the family photos, including babies, that you’d want to put up in your office for other people to see would have them clothed, regardless of who the parents are and regardless of if butts or genitals are visible. You have other photos of your kid. Nobody told you not to put up photos of your kid. They asked you not to put up *that* photo. You made something out of nothing and took way, way too long to get over it.

    1. BridgeofFire*

      “Word spread among coworkers about my situation and everyone was very supportive of me. A few put similar “nude but no genitalia” photos of their own kids, or an Anne Geddes photo, as their computer monitor’s wallpaper. No one noticed or complained about that.”

      I think that is a sign that there were, in fact, similar photos put up without complaint, suggesting that this was a personal complaint rather than a professional one.

      1. Frosty*

        The fact that they were put up after the the complaint makes me think that it’s not so clear cut. It’s possible the same person had an issue with these pictures but it wasn’t communicated directly because there was already a complaint in progress (or they may have complained about those pictures too, but since it was an umbrella issue, each person wasn’t told specifically).

        I do think it’s kind of strange how the LW reacted, and HR/Manager also acted weirdly. A blanket “all subjects in pictures must be clothed” is sufficient.

        I don’t think you should have pictures of your family members in bathing suits at your desk at work, never mind nude pictures of children. This is a semi-public space – choose 1 or 2 pictures where everyone is clothed. This should not be a major “ask”.

        I don’t put pictures up at my job at all because I have object permanence and I can remember what people look like, and I can look at pictures on my phone if I forget.

    2. Observer*

      So, you’re *assuming* that people would be okay with this if it was a straight woman who put the photo up, but there’s nothing in your story suggesting there were other similar photos that were up.

      Uh, did you even read the update?

      A few put similar “nude but no genitalia” photos of their own kids, or an Anne Geddes photo, as their computer monitor’s wallpaper. No one noticed or complained about that.

      In other words people *specifically* put up such pictures and no one else was asked to take them down. We don’t need “suggestions” when there is something to clear cut.

    3. Hroethvitnir*

      You missed the part where multiple straight coworkers put up similar photos and it wasn’t an issue? Also said coworkers clearly saw the problem.

      Sexualising nudity to the point of being aghast at a baby’s chest is genuinely disturbing.

      1. Zona the Great*

        Well said. Aren’t little baby Jesuses partially nude in many reenactments of his birth?

    4. boof*

      I think the fact that the manager couldn’t articulate any sensible “this is ok this is not” policy (like “all depictions of humans at work need bottoms and tops regardless of age unless there is a specific work need for something else” and show it was evenly enforced) but instead just retreated to “someone was uncomfortable” and “sure I guess a big CENSORED bar is ok” made this situation a whole lot more sus, though perhaps only worth the OP calling it out as sus + coworkers posting up a bunch of solidarity photos.

  19. OneAngryAvacado*

    I did find Allison’s point in the original letter really interesting – namely, debates over when nude photos are and are not ok in the workplace are going to get really messy (is there are specific age where there’s a cut-off point for acceptability? it it when the kid becomes a toddler, or starts school, or what?) so it makes sense to just have a blanket ban. The fact that people didn’t complain when others shared similar pictures indicates this was less about good taste and more about prejudice though, sadly.

  20. Aglet*

    Maybe the general rule should be that if your child would be embarrassed if she visited your office as a teenager and saw the photo, don’t have it up. I’d be embarrassed if my parents had nude baby pictures of me up, and I’m not a teenager any more. I don’t want to see anyone’s child’s nude pictures at work. I’m not one to make a big deal of things, so I’d probably just avoid being where I could see the nude photos. I really wouldn’t be comfortable if everyone started putting up nude photos.

    1. Gen X Karen*

      I suspect that using that logic would mean my parents could never have had pictures of me at all. That fivehead I was sporting in my preschool years or my gigantic middle school glasses still embarrass me and I’m in my mid-50s!

      All kidding aside, this is a good measure of what to display. I used to put up pictures at work from school portrait day or a posed picture with the dog, not the snapshot of my son with a diaper duct-taped shut (to keep him from ripping it off) and scuffing around in someone else’s shoes. Save those things for the photo albums.

  21. Bike Walk Barb*

    I’m so sorry this happened and admire your clear description of the issues. Too bad if the manager felt uncomfortable! “I’m required to address this” isn’t synonymous with “I’m required to let one person’s feelings run roughshod over another person’s feelings.”

  22. boof*

    Well, on the one hand I guess if I asked what my personal preferences is, I’d say kids photos at work go by the same standards as adults meaning probably should have bottoms and tops. I have plenty of personal photos with diapers, in the tub, etc and certainly wouldn’t be put out by a baby with no shirt; but I did once come across some old family photos of my mom with no shirt on (pre puberty) and I remember being slightly weirded out even if like, nothing was actually wrong whatsoever!
    That being said I also can’t imagine complaining about a coworker’s family photo just because there was less clothing than I might vaguely prefer if I thought about it too hard. So I would also agree that it’s sus anyone asked about taking down the photo in the first place and/or no standard could be articulated. I agree the supervisor isn’t obliged to pass along every complaint of someone being “uncomfortable” if it’s not a reasonable thing to ask of someone; there are plenty of “discomforts” that are part of working together with other humans that just need to be sucked up in a professional workplace, and some that are really coded bigotry whether or not the person experiencing the “discomfort” realizes that.

  23. Roeslein*

    It sounds like pictures of young undressed children are acceptable in OP’s workplace so obviously this should be the case for everyone. This is a case of cultural difference though because I can’t imagine anyone thinking about putting up a not fully dressed picture of a child in any office I have worked in, but then people here take children’s privacy very seriously. (Personally I would have a hard time showing strangers a picture of a person in their bath who is not in a position to consent to the image being shared – it has nothing to do with anyone else’s sensitivities.)

  24. Ms. K*

    Hi OP. I tend to agree that the manager handled it poorly, and if you were targeted for your sexuality that’s truly awful. I would like to say I didn’t really appreciate nude photos (even discreet ones as you described) as I do sorry if feel like it violated the child’s privacy. Like I as a fully grown adult works NOT be pleased to find out my parents had pix of me (even without private body parts) displayed of me married or in the bath as a baby. However while I may roll my eyes at them, I would never resort to making a complaint. And again, I don’t think the photo is indecent or you’re a bad person/parent for displaying it. My personal preference even for babies is to show photos that allow a little more dignity.

  25. Anonymous for This One*

    At a previous company, someone accused me of having told them they couldn’t have family photos on their desk (100% not true). When questioned, I looked at my Manager and asked “Do you think I really would say something like that?” to which he responded “No.” This individual had been caught lying several times in the past, but was the girlfriend of one of the higher ups (don’t ask, it was a messed up company with tons of nepotism), so nothing was done about her and her lies.

    A couple months later, they did COVID related Reduction in Force. Guess who got laid off? (Hint, it wasn’t the lying girlfriend!) They did me a favor by laying me off, but I have since found out they told reference checkers I resigned – right, myself and 20 other people resigned on the same say – sure.

  26. E*

    Thanks for your update. Ive often thought back to your original post as it similarly never would have occurred to me that anyone would be offended by such a photo. I wouldnt even think twice about showing photos of my kid like the one you described. Thank you also for shining a light on cis het privilege. I’m sorry you were given a hard time and were unsupported by your manager. I’m glad you’re thriving at work regardless

  27. ElliottRook*

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask that such a photo not be displayed–it isn’t about being uncomfortable about a queer parent (for context I myself am queer), it’s that the line around those kind of photos is really, really difficult to draw. The main concern should be the safety of your child–you simply can’t KNOW that no one in the office is a predator (there have been letters here in the past about discovering a coworker is a sex offender), and by having that on display you could be providing them with material for the spank bank. The update mentions Anne Geddes photos, and I know those are really popular, and probably 99.9% of people enjoy them perfectly innocently, but I do wonder how many of those books get bought by predators, too.

    A friend was making a scrapbook and one of the photos of her newborn daughter showed genitalia and she was asking if she should position one of the paper decorations to hide the exposed part. Meanwhile I was horrified that she would want the photo in the scrapbook at all, and kind of aghast that it would have been taken in the first place! I felt so bad for her daughter.

    No one took that kind of photo of me as a child, but if they had been taken I would have hunted them down and destroyed them all as an adult. I just don’t think it’s okay. Save your kids’ bath time antics for your memories only, or frame those photos very, very carefully–some things just don’t need to be documented. Reconsider how your now-child may feel about these things when they’re a teen or adult, like, REALLY deeply consider the consent and privacy angles and don’t let your judgment be clouded by “but they’re so cute!” Your child is cute in clothes too, and they’re safer that way.

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