update: how to tell my boss his second-in-commands are making it impossible for me to do my job

by Alison Green on December 18, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer asking how to tell her boss that his second-in-commands were making it impossible for her to do her job (#5 at the link)? The first update was here, and here’s the latest.

I thought this saga was over, but I have yet another, now definitely final, update to this mess.

YOU WERE ALL RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG BUT NOT FOR THE REASONS YOU MIGHT THINK.

Long story short — I’m no longer working at that company. I was white-anted and thrown under the bus, but not by either of the Goons, in fact, Goon 2 reached out to me after I resigned to send his well-wishes.

The Judas among us was my admin. Who I had hired, trained, and covered for countless times whilst wondering how on earth she was so “overwhelmed” with her workload whilst I was trying desperately to take things off her plate to lighten her load whilst drowning under my own workload. Well, it was because she was spending all her time actively subverting me to my peers and my director.

I could never understand why it was that despite my work being of a high quality, a proven record of saving the company tens of thousands of dollars in my first few months there, and external counterparts singing my praises, I still persistently was being undermined, not listened to, and generally bullied by a few of my colleagues. I then started being “performance managed” by the director, despite my work quality staying the same and still garnering praise from other colleagues. The director could never explain exactly why he was performance managing me, and I was never placed on a PIP, he just made it exceptionally difficult for me to do my job effectively.

It was because my admin had been spreading abhorrent lies about me in an effort to find herself in my chair, without understanding exactly how uncomfortable and soul-sucking that chair was.

I had been asked to find a confirmation email in the inbox that I shared with my admin, but when I searched for it, another email popped up from my admin to my director which was filled with accusations about me which were either greatly exaggerated or outright lies. An example of an exaggeration was her assertion that “MyName demanded I tell her whether I’m planning to have another baby and when, which made me feel intimidated and is illegal to ask.” What had actually occurred was that she told me one day that she was thinking of having another baby, and I had made a joke that she should let me know when so I could get pregnant at the same time and we could have maternity leave together and have a break from work. She laughed, I laughed, I thought that was the end of it. An example of an outright lie was that she said that at an industry awards night, I had gotten so drunk that I attempted to proposition her husband. In reality, I had two glasses of wine that night, and I’ve never met her husband.

She also accused me of taking credit for her work, which had absolutely never happened, in fact, I frequently, in a misguided attempt to help boost her confidence, gave her credit for my work.

The email was about 3 pages long, concluding with, “I don’t even know what she does, but you’re paying her a lot of money to do nothing all day.”

As I finished reading it, everything made sense. I decided then that if she wanted my job so badly, she could have it, and typed out my letter of resignation with immediate effect.

The reason she didn’t know what I did all day was because it was way out of her scope of understanding. I didn’t tell her what I was doing because she was not capable of assisting me with it. Whilst she was dressing up as an office mascot and writing the office newsletter, I was desperately trying to fill all the compliance gaps that if discovered would have the company shut down.

So I left. I told a few of the office big mouths what had happened, and I’ve since heard that the story has gotten out, they have indeed lost an important accreditation (that I initially secured for them), and that their financial situation is not great. Meanwhile, I’m now working in consulting, and am slowly but surely recovering from the horrific burnout and depression that that company left me with.

I never realized just how toxic that workplace was, but your readers did. I should have listened then, and I would’ve saved myself much heartache and ill-health. But things are looking up now, and I hope that if I ever find myself in an environment like that again, I’ll spot it sooner and GTFO.

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{ 121 comments }

{ 121 comments… read them below or add one }

  2. I'm A Little Teapot*

    I find it so amusing that so many people ignore or cut corners on compliance. You want to get shut down? Compliance is one of the few things that can do that overnight. Yes, I know its boring. But unless you have the power to actually change the rules you’re just going to have to deal.

    Reply ↓
    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      And if you are in a position to change the rules, you probably know why they are there in the first place.

      You can’t care more about compliance than your employer does.

      Reply ↓
      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        “You can’t care more about compliance than your employer does.”

        Too many compliance officers have learned this the hard way.

        Reply ↓
        1. Double-secret anonymous for this*

          Word Pastor Petty! I’m seeing this fork in the road in my immediate future. New leadership is professionally naive w/r/t compliance. I’m the SME, with a background in it, including stuff like “in charge of [regulatory] audits for 8yrs” “develop & project manage [regulatory] response plans” & 25yrs experience in my resume.

          I’ve been looped in on a new process that … well … it’s not compliant and has a very high risk for creating conditions favorable for a boo-boo that could incur substantial consequences -financial, reputational, professional, you name it.

          I have the unenviable job of being the skunk at this particular garden party.

          According to even our org’s internal policies, I’m obliged to lay out how this plan will not work and why. I’ll also underscore that it’s suboptimal use of time & departmental resources to not have me on the team that created the plan bc as the SME, this is within my purview, & that the plan needs to go back to square 1.

          I accept I might be asking for a managing-out, especially since leadership is new and maybe not that invested in retaining me. But I will not risk MY professional reputation in this way, so not only will I leave if leadership stays the course anyway, I’m pretty much ethically obligated to drop a dime if the plan does go forward as presented to me.

          Reply ↓
          1. JustaTech*

            I hate that there are entire departments for telling management that something is out of compliance (or will be out of compliance) and every time they save the company from a spectacular self-destruct it’s all “Oh Quality won’t let us do that…” (because that is explicitly prohibited by law and the consequence is your CEO goes to jail!) “Development said no … ” (because it violates both the written law and the laws of physics!), like we’re a bunch of party poopers.

            Reply ↓
            1. Not a Girl Boss*

              At a past job, the ops team would literally sing “rain rain go away” to me every time I had to walk over to tell them to hold a shipment (which was at least once a week, our quality was so bad).

              Reply ↓
      2. Tradd*

        It depends on what you do. As an individually licensed customs broker here in the US, I qualify the corporate operating permit from CBP. If I didn’t keep the company compliant, MY broker’s license could be at risk, as well, depending on what the issue was.

        Reply ↓
        1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          Oh same with being a lawyer. I was speaking in a broader context like certifications for the company as a whole.

          Reply ↓
        2. Strive to Excel*

          Surely at that point your job is to document as clearly as possible your efforts to keep the company compliant and that your own actions are consistent with reasonable expectations?

          Reply ↓
    2. Not a Girl Boss*

      I am always amazed at the hoop-jumping questions I get about justifying our expenditure on compliance. “Whats the business case?” “Well, for starters, you get to keep having a business…”

      Reply ↓
      1. Not a Girl Boss*

        And that’s not for exorbitant expenses or oodles of staff members. I once had a “travel expense freeze” exception thrice denied by a VP with the same note “have you considered conducting this meeting virtually?”… it was the travel required for our mandatory annual definitely-had-to-be-in-person-even-during-COVID audit.

        Reply ↓
  3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    Congratulations on getting out.
    It’s sometimes hard to see the toxicity when you are burned out and trying to stay afloat yourself.

    May the admin enjoy her promotion…. if she even got it.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      Yeah, reading back over the last two letters, this update makes sense. It was clearly not a well-run place, and the director was clearly not a good leader. It’s not a big surprise to find more issues.
      Also, it’s hilarious when someone “could do your job” but doesn’t know 80% of what you actually do all day. Anyone that listens to someone like that (i.e., the director) gets what they deserve. That’s self-enforcing karma.

      Reply ↓
      2. OrangeCup*

        YES!!! Is it ALWAYS the most incompetent people with the most self confidence who want to tell those of us with 20 years of experience in our fields that we don’t know what we’re doing when they’ve been in the industry 20 minutes. Can you tell I’ve lived through that? It took 3 people to replace me (one of whom has already quit), I have a great new job, and a former colleague I’m still good friends with tells me they are drowning without me.

        Glad to hear you’re gone OP and I hope things are all uphill for you from now on!

        Reply ↓
        1. Mallory Janis Ian*

          It reminds me of old job where the front desk receptionist was reporting (as if it were her job to do so) that the communications director was coming in late and leaving early. She didn’t understand that, while *her* job was to work 8 hours at the reception desk, the communication director’s job was to research and write articles publicizing our college’s and faculty’s accomplishments and could be done from home, or from a coffee shop, or wherever she chose to work.

          Reply ↓
          1. Retired Professor*

            Yeah. . . . I once had a student chastise me for not being in my office and at my desk “during working hours.” The time the student was trying to reach me was when I had back-to-back classes and my schedule was on the door.

            Reply ↓
        2. CommanderBanana*

          Hahahah yep. I left my last job, they hired two people to replace me, one quit and one was fired in less than a year, next person was hired at a more senior position, he crapped the bed and was demoted. They are still searching and are now on their…..fourth? person in the less than 2 year I left.

          But yes, I was never promoted or given a significant pay increase for working 2-3 jobs, because really, what did I do all day. :)

          Reply ↓
        3. Impending Heat Dome*

          I’ve referenced that joke about the plumber/tradesperson who shows up, turns a bolt with a wrench, and says “That’ll be $200.”

          You’re not paying me for the 5 minutes it took, you’re paying for the 20 years of me having learned how to fix it in 5 minutes.

          Reply ↓
      3. Mallory Janis Ian*

        It sounds as if the director didn’t have sufficient knowledge of what LW was doing either. And what c-suite-level person would entertain a THREE PAGE email from this admin?!

        Reply ↓
        3. fhqwhgads*

          Yeah, idiot director goes from “best hire in 18 months” to blindly believing random bad shit, but never once ASKS LW about it. Just believes it blindly and simmers.

          Reply ↓
        4. Not a Girl Boss*

          Seriously. We were always taught “if it doesnt fit on the screen of their iphone screen without scrolling, its not getting read” and I became the default “please edit this down into something a C-suiter will read” person in my group. 3 pages from an admin is insane.

          Reply ↓
  4. Baela Targaryen*

    Please don’t allow this story to reinforce any sexist stereotypes about female admins. We already get characterized as nags and conniving — one person does not a whole group define!

    Reply ↓
      1. Starbuck*

        I was wondering what this meant though:
        “Whilst she was dressing up as an office mascot ”
        Like, a football mascot animal costume? Or is it a euphemism for dressing provocatively, or some third thing I can’t think of.

        Reply ↓
    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      This isn’t the audience where you have to worry about that. However, on the flip side it’s important you don’t overlook that people like this exist because you’re trying so hard to subvert a stereotype. Otherwise you could find yourself in the same situation.

      Reply ↓
      1. Strive to Excel*

        No – the only thing it reinforces to me is that petty and vindictive people are going to be petty and vindictive. Also that when you have an office to the point where you start thinking about management as “Goons 1 & 2”, it’s a sign that no matter how nice the office looks you should probably do a toxicity check.

        Reply ↓
    6. Statler von Waldorf*

      You do know that due to Ironic Process Theory, aka the Pink Elephant paradox, telling people not to think about about something just makes them think about it more, right?

      Reply ↓
      1. Mango Freak*

        Yeah, I’d never heard that stereotype (most admins are women after all) so bringing this up just introduced the stereotype to a lot of people.

        Reply ↓
    7. Menace to Sobriety*

      I’ve read thru the bulk of the comments here w/o seeing anything even remotely suggesting that. If it happens, by all means it should be called out, but calling out something that hasn’t happend yet and is a non issue in this case just comes across as … virtue signalling.

      Reply ↓
  5. Apricot Croissant*

    Oooooh, I do hope the admin does get LW’s job. Sounds like she and the company will be a credit to each other.

    Reply ↓
    1. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      Somebody get this woman a company credit card STAT. I’m sure she will impress everyone with her integrity and good judgment when trusted with company funds and there will be no negative outcomes whatsoever.

      Reply ↓
  6. The Prettiest Curse*

    It’s weirdly hilarious that the scheming admin somehow wasn’t scheming enough to send their undermining email from a non-shared inbox. Glad you are out of there, OP!

    Reply ↓
    2. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      Sometimes I get offended on behalf of LW’s like this who get pushed out by people who aren’t even good at being terrible. LW seems nice and competent and they deserve a higher quality of villain in their story. (Obviously no villain would be ideal, but you like to think that if you have to have a nemesis they’ll at least be more of a Moriarty than a Dr. Evil.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Inkognyto*

        A co-worker and I were undermined for a Senior position (that we didn’t even know would exist) once by someone. This was over a decade ago, timelines are rough.

        There was 3 of us working in Information Security. I was hired specifically to help fill in gaps for compliance and audits (think Soc-2).

        Our manager had the short term memory of a gnat. He wrote down what we had at our weekly 1-on-1’s. Still would forget where notepad still sitting at his desk was with the notes from last weeks meeting. Combine that with he had terrible understanding on what I should be doing in general and suggesting things which would make it worse.

        We bypassed and used it to just work on things that ‘were’ in accordance to best practices and compliance and brought them up in our 1 on 1’s as if he suggested it last week.
        “Hey this is the cool stuff I did for X to make us better at this audit/compliance/process.”

        It worked. At some point we needed more staff we hired a junior person, not in title but experience like maybe had 1 year and we had to seriously train this person. I was initially against it as they needed 2-3 more years experience, but I was overruled.

        Said person went on maternity leave 3 months into hire, didn’t get all of the training and then managed to WFH a lot (we had no policy on it) but to be fair they got us able to work remote 1-2 days a week because it had to be for everyone in the group. This is now 7 month mark after their hire. Work quality is eh, still asks lots of questions on things and doesn’t grasp basic concepts and doesn’t understand much on basic IT standards and how things work in general. They had a real hard time trying to manage basic tools like remote access, where the tools were, what they were called. All of this was also documented. I wrote most of it.

        Fast forward another 6 months. Gnat Memory Mgr leaves and on exit promote the least experienced person with 2 years experience in the field to a Senior position and one of the co-workers to Manager in his place exit.

        When did we find out about Senior was promotion?
        a few months later when the title change happened, and “Senior” in the job title in all emails.

        New Mgr was forced to agree to promotion of Senior.
        new Mgr had to agreed in order to get promoted. He tried to force her to lead meetings etc, suggest ideas, and we sat there waiting each time, but it was always so non-sense that New Mgr called out and said “Your the Senior, it’s your job to come up with these plans” which did not work as all of the previous “Ideas” were ours.

        She got promoted because everything we talked about and all of our ideas in the team area that we wanted to do and were working on. Senior took over to Gnat Brain Mgr’s cube every single day and claimed credit for them for over a year.
        New Mgr found out because Mgmt had their own cube corner, and one of the other mgr’s said “Oh I’m not shocked she was over here claiming Senior had all kinds of ideas every day” and asked for samples.
        A few of them. were New Mgr’s on compliance processes, things they wrote.
        Took credit for all of our work and ideas and since the mgr couldn’t remember anything.
        Senior worked with a vendor to install product that did some monitoring, they (mis)managed most of it. It was a 2 day install that took 5. They couldn’t navigate the basic skill stuff to create accounts, remote in etc. But over time it got down with a lot of help from others. (But not 2 of us normies as we were told to not help).
        Once the system is up, I ask how to use it as we were to get training but that time was gone as the vendor was. Senior has no clue how to manage this. Said “it should be doing what it supposed too” What an out of the box solution is going to auto configure compliance rules?
        I spent like a few days and got all of the system rules in place. RTFM baby!
        Monitoring is happening, and I report this to SVP and New Mgr that we’re meeting our compliance.

        Chapter: Not everyone is clueless
        7-9 months later have a mandatory meeting invite to be at work at 8am sharp (I started at 9am) from SVP of IT no exceptions if you get the email and do not discuss this with anyone else or you will be terminated. Yeah.
        It’s a scary email to get.

        I was there at 7:50am and was gently directed to get on a city style bus, there was a big line of them. Don’t even go to your desk.
        All 800 of us went to a nearby conference center.
        The people in the room now worked for a different company.
        The company had 2 lines of work. One line got sold off to another company, and we split IT in half.
        I was with the other person who wasn’t promoted. Senior and New Mgr were staying.
        They were informed on site, as we were away. Also the location was bought by “New company” and over the coming months everything IT related would be split/cloned as needed as many things were co-mingled. Like data shares.

        One of the best things that happened to me career wise. Old company struggled
        A lot of the IT folks that stayed with the old were bitter since the mgmt that was staying was not the most inspiring.
        When we went back it was on a shared space for a few months. Tensions were higher.
        New Mgr was fine with it and said “good luck” etc. Senior struggled do work, as a lot of it was scripted and those were created by the 2 of as the other two had no idea how to do that.
        Senior wanted all of our scripts etc claiming they were hers. Since it was still on a network being split she had taken them without asking claiming as such.
        But, those scripts didn’t work.
        See we knew it would happen, so the moment we got back, we modified the scripts a lot, after making copies that we used on our laptops.

        Senior tried to edit them, accused us of things, but frankly it was our work and belonged to the new company. If you cannot write code or know how scripting works, then you struggle, so it was back to managing network accounts manually for 800+ employee’s. I heard Senior didn’t last 2 months.

        My co-worker and I got assigned a new mgr as we had none and the SVP couldn’t manage us. I got asked if I had any questions, I said “Can I know how the decision which staff went to New Company happened?”
        he said “I hand picked everyone” with a smile.
        I thanked him for the confidence in my skills, with a nod and left

        One of the things that would happen somewhat often is SVP would come out and ask something of one of us. He asked all of us for things. I guess over time he did learn which people knew their job.

        Reply ↓
        1. Venus*

          The nice thing is that good managers know who to pick when they have choices. It wasn’t a great situation for you, but good to know it improved!

          Reply ↓
      2. The gourmet cupcake*

        Yes, the email being from a shared email is the equivalent of a giant sign that says “Dr. Doofinsmirtz EVIL lair”. I’m not sure whether that’s gumption or simply insult to injury.

        Reply ↓
      1. The Prettiest Curse*

        The admin had no way of knowing whether (or when) the OP would see the email or how they would respond, though. So I think it’s unlikely that they are a mind of Machiavellian genius, especially as it seems like they don’t currently have the OP’s job, which was their ultimate goal.

        Reply ↓
  7. MuseumChick*

    I am so happy to hear you got out there! Honestly the real villain in all this is the director who not only kept two high ranking useless employees but also bought into what the admin was saying with seemingly no real effort to investigate what was really going on. Its no wonder they are struggling now.

    Reply ↓
    1. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      Truly a testament to how far you can go in life with the right combination of luck, genetics, and privilege. Cause it sure wasn’t skill or ability that got Director to where he is.

      Reply ↓
    2. Nicosloanica*

      Yes, it takes two to be fooled in this case; the admin was wrong, but the director was very wrong for not confirming anything and seeming just to take the word of someone with a conflict of interest (which should have been clear when the admin was wrangling for OP’s job). It’s tempting to blame the Iago here but it goes all the way up.

      Reply ↓
  8. Madame Desmortes*

    You are a whole lot better than that workplace was, OP. Glad you’re now somewhere that recognizes and values that.

    Reply ↓
    4. Ann O'Nemity*

      I’m glad Alison kindly included the link! It was a new term for me too. With the termite analogy of eating from the inside out, it makes sense.

      Reply ↓
  10. Rex Libris*

    I hope the admin does get the job, maybe she’ll learn something, or crash and burn spectacularly in a karma induced blaze of glory… either way it’s a win.

    I’m always amazed at people who think that just because they aren’t in a position to see what the higher-ups are doing, it obviously means they aren’t doing anything. It tends to lead to rude awakenings once someone is actually oblivious enough to put them in charge of anything.

    Reply ↓
    1. Generic Name*

      Yeah, I really give the side-eye to staff level folks who complain that the higher ups “never do anything” and all they do is “go to meetings”. Well yeah, attending meetings IS the bulk of many higher level jobs. It’s a pretty natural career progression to go from being a doer to overseeing work the doers do.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nicosloanica*

        I definitely think about this all the time. When I started out, I supported (as an admin) a guy who demonstrably didn’t seem to do very much. He claimed it was his job to make the tough calls in the moment, which – fair enough, but is that really worth 300% of what other hard working staff are earning? In retrospect, I can see that he had relationships which were of value and brought money into the org, but honestly I’m still not sure about the ROI on what he was paid versus anyone else.

        Reply ↓
        1. DJ Abbott*

          One of my first office jobs was admin to a man who flew around the country as a sales person, but actually sold little or nothing.
          Such people do exist. It’s up to their bosses to be aware of what they’re doing and how to handle them. So it comes down to how competent their management is.

          Reply ↓
    2. Wilbur*

      I think I’ve read about this kind of admin>director transition before and it’s always confused me. I’ve always viewed the two skill sets as being very different and being an admin is it’s own distinct career path. Is this something that happens in smaller companies or non-profits?

      Reply ↓
      1. Dr. BOM*

        It’s rather endemic at places that don’t have separate management and individual contributor tracks. I’m lucky that my employer is happy to keep me on the IC track as I know for a fact that I would make a terrible manager.

        Reply ↓
  11. Leenie*

    Yikes! Glad LW is out. The guy who runs that organization must be an utter mess. You don’t have Goon 1, Goon 2, and Viper Admin running the place in an office with a competent leader.

    Reply ↓
  12. Elle*

    Why is it so often that the person trying to steal a job is also the person with no clue what that job entails?

    Also: it’s super weird to me that the director was taking anything the admin said seriously. Why take her word so seriously? I’d be glad to be aware from this director- clearly their decision making was terrible.

    Reply ↓
    2. different seudonym*

      Seems pretty likely that LW’s ADHD disclosure (first letter) was used as a warrant for any and all vague criticisms. We don’t have direct evidence of that, but when four people in different positions and with different motivations all think they can do anything to you, including making up bald-faced lies and putting them in writing, it’s a very good bet that bigotry is in play. Red-headed stepchild, basically.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nicosloanica*

        I did suck in my breath at that first update and woefully shake my head. I don’t think OP did themselves any favors there.

        Reply ↓
    3. pally*

      yeah- why is management willing to put so much stock in the admin’s assessment of the OP’s work and not look into why the admin is trashing the OP? I mean, 3 pages worth of comments about the OP? That is a lot.

      If nothing else, ask the OP about the admin’s comments.

      It’s best that the OP got out of there. Geez what a shitshow!

      Reply ↓
  13. Blackbeard*

    And here comes another example of how you can be very skilled and do an exceptional job, and still lose at office politics (in dysfunctional workplaces).

    OP, you should now contact YourOldCompany to offer to do consulting for them and fix their problems… at a ridiculously high hourly rate.

    Reply ↓
    2. MuseumChick*

      Omg, that would be hilarious!

      “Hi Director, How are you? Its been so long! I wanted to reach out and let you know that I have started my own consulting business. Its been very busy and exciting all at the same time. I was sorry to heard that (company) recently lost (accreditation). I know what an impact that can have in this industry. I wanted to reach and and see if (company) would be interested in my consulting services. Let me if you are and then we can discuss rates etc.

      Best,

      OP”

      Reply ↓
    4. Exme*

      May be fun to think about in theory, but these would be terrible clients. You know they are back-stabbers and they might try to trash your reputation. Engaging invites drama, leave them in your past.

      Reply ↓
  14. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

    SO glad you got out, LW! My experience was nothing remotely as severe as this, but having people watching you this closely for any opportunity to undermine you is so DRAINING. I didn’t even realize how much it was taking out of me until I was out of that environment.

    I hope for only better and much more well-adjusted workplaces in your future.

    Reply ↓
  15. eristotle*

    I was in a situation so similar earlier this year that reading this was *uncanny.* Fortunately my boss and other higher-ups saw through it and had my back. Even then it was still really disorienting and distressing.

    Reply ↓
  16. Kristin*

    Wow, this is “All About Eve” on steroids! Take comfort in 1) finding out (much workplace gaslighting is never truly outed), 2) making others find out, and 3) getting out. All the best to you!

    Reply ↓
    1. Typity*

      Yep, LW got Eve Harrington’d by the admin’s taking advantage of people’s general gullibility and willingness to believe outrageous lies just because they can’t fathom anybody making something like that up. (Though, apparently unlike the admin, Eve H. had talent.)

      Reply ↓
  17. HonorBox*

    In addition to the side eye of the admin, I’m also strongly side eyeing the director who allowed these lies to have enough oxygen to burn on. If they were indeed impressed by what the LW was doing, why not dig in a little bit and find out more?

    Maybe the assistant gets the job. They F’d around, now they’re going to find out.

    LW, I’m glad you got out. I’m sorry this happened, and I send you the very best wishes moving forward.

    Reply ↓
    1. H3llifIknow*

      “If they were indeed impressed by what the LW was doing, why not dig in a little bit and find out more?”
      Part of the Admin’s undermining appears to have been saying basically, “yeah all that good stuff you thought LW was doing, was me and her taking credit for it.” She planted enough seeds of doubt in someone who was already probably a pretty marginal manager, at best.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nicosloanica*

        In my experience, the admin doesn’t even get the job. And if OP was helping her as much as she claims, I hope the admin got the new boss she deserves.

        Reply ↓
  18. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

    I told a few of the office big mouths what had happened, and I’ve since heard that the story has gotten out

    Excellent.

    So glad you are out of there, OP, and recovering your health after the toxic dumpster fire that was ex-job.

    Reply ↓
  19. ragazza*

    Just the fact that the director would take the admin’s word for all of this in the face of so much evidence to the contrary says it all.

    Reply ↓
    1. Aggretsuko*

      Seconded. OP was sunk no matter what if nobody believed her/was on her side and the admin could tell any damn lie she wanted.

      Reply ↓
      1. Seal*

        Yep. And when it inevitably blows up in the director’s face, it’s both maddening and hilarious to watch everyone twist themselves in knots to justify their actions. I’ve run into former colleagues years later who couldn’t look me in the eye because they belated realized I was right all along.

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  20. No Rudolph*

    Glad OP got out, but a little confused why she didn’t bring the email to the director and refute the parts that were lies – leaving without trying that just seems to me like conceding that a lot of people can go ahead and believe that stuff, when if they’d heard it contested they might think otherwise. If you’re on the point of getting out anyway, it seems like it’s worth confronting the lying admin and making her justify what she said.

    But the far more confusing choice is of course OP’s boss, keeping the accusations a secret and never trying to figure out what’s actually going on. Sounds like a lot of people at this company deserve each other!

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    1. learnedthehardway*

      I’d have been strongly inclined to blow the lid off of things too, but since the Director is really the villain in the entire piece – seeing as he hired/kept on Goons 1 and 2, let the OP be undermined, took at face value the claims of the Admin without investigating, etc. etc. – I can see why the OP decided it wasn’t worth her time to do so.

      I think informing the office gossips was a stroke of genius, though.

      Living well is the best revenge – I hope the OP goes and does a great consulting job for competitors of the company she worked at.

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    2. H3llifIknow*

      “but a little confused why she didn’t bring the email to the director and refute the parts that were lies ”

      I wouldn’t either. By the time it’s to that point, it just comes across as defensive. I’d have done the same as the LW, written my resignation and maybe let a few “big mouths” know what happened and let the chips fall where they may, because I sure as HELL wouldn’t want to continue working there, even if I refuted everything and the director believed me. He was ready to believe the admin about EVERYTHING. It’s a waste of breath to refute it.

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      1. CommanderBanana*

        “He was ready to believe the admin about EVERYTHING.”

        I’ve run into this situation a few times where someone has the ear of someone higher-up, and when people eventually find out why, it’s never good. In at least 2 places I worked, it was because they were having an affair, and I’m pretty sure that was the case in at least one other office but one left before it really blew up.

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    3. Statler von Waldorf*

      The problem with wresting with pigs is that you both get dirty, but the pig is really into it.

      Unless you’re ready to play dirty yourself to win, the best move is not to play.

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    4. Ann O'Nemity*

      There is something so tempting about replying to both the admin and the director from the shared account to disprove the lies in a dramatic Hollywood reveal!

      But realistically, the most strategic move is to realize this employer is “house-of-bees” toxic, get a new job lined up, and resign with minimal drama.

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      1. Mango Freak*

        The problem is, refuting the lies doesn’t disprove them.

        Finding the email isn’t a “gotcha.” The director already know that the admin is sending emails behind LW’s back. It’s already so shocking that the director would respond the way he did, there’s no point in just arguing back.

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    5. Kella*

      OP saying, “These are lies” is only effective if director is willing to believe OP over admin, or investigate to confirm. But OP already had concrete evidence that the director would believe the admin over OP, and that the director wasn’t interested in actually investigating any of the claims to confirm they were true.

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  21. WoodswomanWrites*

    Yikes, I’m so glad you got out of that place.

    It boggles my mind that high achievers can be so easily undermined by employees who have no clue about what the job entails and make such wild accusations. Any competent director would look askance at the person making that stuff up first, rather than the other way around.

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    1. Seal*

      Any competent director would look askance at the person making that stuff up first, rather than the other way around.

      That’s the big red banner in a sea of red flags. At a minimum, a competent director would at least do some discrete fact checking and talk to the accused employee before jumping to conclusions. A former boss of mine blatantly favored a few lower-level employees in support staff roles and gave their input far more weight than that of managers and administrators with the proven track records that come from years of experience. My boss even went so far as to create an annual monetary award for “excellence” as a way to give their favorites an under the table raise. This created major divisions amongst the staff, to the point people left in droves. My boss and their favorites blamed the senior staff; they really should have been looking in the mirror.

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  24. hbc*

    Oh, man, I feel you on this one. We had management that believed who ever got in their ear and whined rather than, you know, just taking care of problems. One guy spent probably half his time there commiserating with whoever was in front of him and bashing who wasn’t there, and apparently telling the remote bosses how he could do everything better. When he finally got power, he managed to keep firing someone every 3-6 months who would be blamed for all the problems.

    I left pretty early on in the process, but someone still employed there basically live-texted That Guy’s eventual firing. I will forever treasure the picture painted of That Guy’s face when he emerged from his office to unexpectedly find that his boss had crossed an ocean for a surprise meeting with him.

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    1. MuseumChick*

      Obligatory IANAL but I doubt there is a case here. Or, even if there is it would be very hard and expensive to prove and peruse. The OP was not fired from the job, which makes proving damages really difficult. There is no indication that their reputation in the field suffered either.

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    2. MsM*

      Probably not worth it. Maybe if the admin had succeeded in getting OP fired, but even then, it’s a lot of time and money for an uncertain outcome.

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  26. Alicent*

    I’m glad you got out. I worked with a similar assistant at my last job who was really out to get me and actually did try to get me fired. She was amazingly incompetent at her own very simple job and was pretty angry that I had achieved some of the goals she wanted for her own life and career. our office manager did try to address it once but it just led to the assistant breaking down crying and nothing came of it. No one else would deal with it. It was just one out of a thousand toxic things there and I quit very happily when I found a new job.

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  27. froodle*

    That assistant sucks, but oh my gosh that boss sucks a thousand times worse.

    How are you going to be so bad at managing and keeping abreast of what’s happening in your own company that you just… accept the statements of one person at face value without any effort to look into things?

    what staggering incompetence. what outrageous buffoonery. what, and I cannot stress this enough, an absolute bellend.

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  29. Sara without an H*

    The Judas among us was my admin. Who I had hired, trained, and covered for countless times whilst wondering how on earth she was so “overwhelmed” with her workload whilst I was trying desperately to take things off her plate to lighten her load whilst drowning under my own workload.

    Hi, OP — I’d like to suggest that, when you’ve had a chance to decompress a little, that you think about why you “covered” so much for your admin. Are you a rescuer, by any chance? Or, since you were surrounded by bad managers on all sides, did you think you were going to show them how to do it right? Don’t dwell on it, but it’s worth considering.

    But congratulations on getting out of that shit show! May your consulting business thrive in 2025, and may your former workplace get everything it deserves.

    Reply ↓

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