updates: custodian says we have fleas but we do not, and more

by Alison Green on December 17, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are five updates from past letter-writers.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

1. Our custodian says we have fleas but we do not (#2 at the link)

I wrote in asking about how to deal with the alleged flea infestation that only our custodian could see.

Around the same time I wrote to you, Flea Man [in my head I say this the same way one would say He-Man like from the 1980s cartoon] met me at the staff door as I came in to work. He had waited for me specifically so he could show me evidence of the fleas.

He had drowned several fleas in one of the library toilets and had left them there intentionally so I could see there really were fleas in the library. I told him that although I did indeed see the drowned fleas, that no one else had reported any flea activity at all and even our exterminator hadn’t found any evidence of fleas.

He apparently decided I wasn’t taking him seriously enough and left a note for our business manager, explaining again that he thought we had fleas. His letter ended with the line, “My hair can’t take that chance.”

Because his work was so poor and his absenteeism so frequent, we fired him shortly thereafter and he and his fleas have not been seen again in our building.

2. I heard alarming information from a coworker’s old manager — should I tell our boss? (#3 at the link)

Thank you for replying to my letter! I did apply your advice regarding tone, but thankfully, the situation worked itself out regardless.

To clarify something that came up in the comments: I had left this out for brevity, but Juan actually texted Emma himself to tell her he was working with me. So: he commented on her post, I asked how he knew her, and he texted her like they were friends. Then I got the call from her, which is why I found the whole thing particularly odd.

Shortly after your post, my boss’s role was split into two. Although Juan and I were still on the same projects, we had different roles, so Juan got a new boss while I stayed with mine.

I learned from my boss that Juan’s new boss had immediately flagged these issues and put him on a Performance Improvement Plan. There were even complaints from clients about him. My boss asked me to keep an eye out for any issues Juan might cause and let leadership know immediately, which gave me a chance to casually share my concerns. I told him I had it on good authority that Juan had had similar issues before and had even been fired over them. My boss was unfazed and just said, “Oh, I’m sure he has.”

Juan was let go a month later, on good terms.

Here’s the funny part: a few days after that, Emma called me again to say Juan had reached out to her, asking if she knew of any openings! (The very person who let him go—I’m honestly bewildered.) Emma was really concerned that he might have jeopardized my job as well by trying to shift blame onto me or generally make me look bad, but fortunately it wasn’t.

Juan is still liking and commenting on all of Emma’s posts—and now on posts from my company’s leadership, too. It seems like he’s over-representing his connections just as he does with his technical skills, or maybe he just lacks self-awareness. In any case, I’m glad it all resolved with minimal drama.

3. My company let me buy a house, then laid me off — then pulled the rug out from under me again (#2 at the link)

Ultimately, the move worked out in the end. I had moved in part for more opportunities and one came up for an internal transfer to a different department. I got a decent pay bump and some other incentives, enough so that I ended up in a better position than if I had taken the original position. I was a bit concerned about the transition since it is to a new department — and moving to a customer-facing role, when my prior team was internal-only — but I’m working on a lot of the same projects and regularly asked to consult on questions about the old team and their processes. There’s been a lot of adjusting to what is an entirely new role, but the trial period went through fine and my new team is thrilled to have me. We work a lot with my former team on projects, and my operational knowledge has helped speed some things along that they had been struggling with for months). I’m also quite happy with the move. I had reasons to move states beyond the job, the biggest being the political climate, and I probably would have moved regardless of the work situation.

The biggest factor for me in deciding whether to stay or look elsewhere was thinking about prior experiences. I also considered some of the comments that suggested it might have been something that Sara was fighting for and other managers or higher ups ultimately made the final call over her objections. I still don’t know exactly who made the call or when, nor when Sara knew officially. But before everything that happened in July, management and I had a great relationship. I had been promoted and assigned some major projects. There were some extra development opportunities that I was selected for. This was really the first time being blindsided at work. And in the aftermath of the first position falling through, Sara arranged for me to start some new projects that ultimately are how I got referred to this new department. I’m more willing to write off what happened in July as a bad judgment call — they didn’t want to share bad news until it was final, even if I really needed to be in the loop before then. Certainly something I will keep in mind if I ever find myself in a managerial role.

In retrospect, I’m even somewhat thankful the first position fell through. I’m in a better position now at work, and my new team is well managed. Moving departments has allowed me to train on new subjects and get some new opportunities, and I’m still early enough in my career that I can afford to move around. From what I’ve heard through the grapevine, the first position had (and still has) a lot of growing pains and the manager overseeing it still hasn’t quite worked out what they want it to be. I get a sense as well from the stories I’ve heard that this manager is not the most organized or considerate.

4. Navigating small social/networking circles as a manager (#4 at the link)

Thank you for reassuring me I was reasonable in my decisions and didn’t need to feel guilty. Iris didn’t invite Petunia and I’ve kept going as often as I can to the dinners. Petunia’s home challenges has continued though and she’s back and forth on reconciliation vs divorce all of which is very stressful for her and affecting her mood at work. I feel for her and as a manager have offered appropriate support, but am still deeply grateful I can keep my outside life dinners separate.

5. My employer wants us to list our dietary restrictions publicly (#3 at the link)

I emailed the person who set up the catering privately to share my concerns, and they recorded my dietary needs privately. We haven’t had another catered meeting since so I’m unsure if the procedures changed, but I got my needs across without having to share them in public.

Now if only I can convince them that cross-contaminated utensils and a single salad isn’t enough gluten-free food…..

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{ 118 comments }

{ 118 comments… read them below }

  1. Banana Pyjamas*

    As some someone with food allergies, it’s wild to me that you wouldn’t share your restrictions openly because that’s the best way to keep yourself safe, especially since cross-contamination is a concern.

    2. Presea*

      Sometimes people are jerks and will “test” food restrictions. I can understand that a lot of people might not want to give their coworkers a convenient “how best to poison me with common grocery store items” guide with that in mind. Especially with something as misunderstood as gluten-free/celiac.

      1. Dawn*

        Well there’s that and also sometimes sharing your food restrictions publicly also shares the underlying condition that causes them – and they’re not all as stigma-free as “I have an allergy.”

        Among other things, there’s a number of food restrictions which are textural in nature and are often brought about by a mental health condition, such as being on the spectrum, which is maybe something you don’t want people in the office trying to guess about you.

      2. Dawn*

        Oh and as a type 1 diabetic I’ve also had more than one instance where I’ve been offered food, accepted it, and then literally had it yanked out of my hand with an “oh, you can’t eat that,” because the average person doesn’t understand diabetes very well but still thinks they’re qualified to make food decisions for me better than I am.

      3. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

        Yup. A former church friend pulled one of her celiac children out of school and homeschooled for a few years because other students kept intentionally contaminating her food. Sadly, some people continue that behavior into adulthood. Bullying because of a disability isn’t cool.

    3. Arrietty*

      It seems your food allergies are the kind people believe really exist, and aren’t jerks about. That’s fortunate, but not universal (ask anyone who is allergic to chocolate, or mushrooms).

      1. Annie2*

        I have the opposite (but also aggravating) experience of this – I have a mild nut allergy. It’s the “eyeball food and avoid it if it looks like it has almonds in it” type of allergy. I try to keep it quiet because otherwise it causes a lot of questions and people are weird about what I can and cannot eat and how lax I am, because it doesn’t accord with their perception of a nut allergy.

        1. Dr. Rebecca*

          Several friends, bartenders, waiters, etc.: “…ALL melons?”

          Me: “I’m not sure, and I’m not looking to find out today, so how about we assume yes.”

        2. The OG Sleepless*

          I used to work with someone who had a nut allergy, but it was just ingestion…surfaces and airborne were totally fine. I eat a lot of trail mix and I made myself nuts (ha) worrying for the first month or so we worked together, but she insisted it was fine as long as she didn’t eat them. She never had an issue, so I resolutely took her word for it.

          1. Chas*

            My nephew has an allergy to some tree nuts, with brazil nuts being the worst for him- to the point that my sister now won’t have brazil nut in her house because my mother once accidentally triggered his allergy by eating one and then kissing him goodnight. (because the Brazil nut allergen can be transmitted through body fluids, otherwise it’s only if HE eats them)!
            But some people always get confused that he can still eat peanuts and almonds, even when he gives them the whole list of which nuts he can’t eat. (AND someone tried to give give my sister chocolate covered Brazil nuts for Christmas right after we first discovered his allergy. She was absolutely fuming, since she doesn’t even like nuts herself…)

          2. Elizabeth West*

            A former coworker had one too and made the same assertion that she was not airborne. Regardless, I steered clear of peanut butter anything for desk lunches, just in case. I can eat that at home.

        3. MigraineMonth*

          My partner grew up with undiagnosed lactose intolerance. As a result she strongly dislikes milk and cheese (even low or lactose-free versions), but sometimes she decides to eat yogurt or ice cream even if it results in discomfort. For a while I tried to figure out the rules about which dishes she wouldn’t eat so I could cook for both of us, but now I just tell her what’s in the dish and let her decide if she wants any.

      4. Jaina Solo*

        That is always weird to me when people don’t believe you’re allergic. The only time I’ll question it is if the info changes a lot–had a friend in college who was allergic to dairy but would eat it if it was served at someone’s house. And then suddenly she wasn’t. I found it confusing because I didn’t know how to accommodate her generally with offering/avoiding foods.

        Meanwhile, I have a nut allergy and it’s pretty straightforward. The nice thing was that it taught my mom about accommodating allergies (in the 90s) and the one kid in school with a chocolate allergy would still get a dessert if my mom was sending something for our class.

        1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

          The thing is that allergies can change. They can start at any time, and also stop just as randomly. They can also vary in intensity: typically people will start saying that they’re GF but don’t worry about traces, then later realise that they need to start worrying about trace. I have a poly allergic friend and simply ask her for a list every time she comes to stay, and it tends to vary wildly. When she was working as a vet’s assistant, all her allergies were much worse, once she was made redundant, and was no longer in contact with all that fur and dander, all her allergies calmed down, even those not related to animals. Go figure!

      5. Banana Pyjamas*

        I actually have anaphylactic reactions to mushrooms, shellfish, and bleu cheese. Personally, I have found tricksters to be a more important reason to disclose. Once they try the trick, I know to ask explicitly every time about those specific ingredients. My grandma was notorious for trying to feed me bleu cheese because she was offended I wouldn’t eat her cheese ball dip. I understand the arguing too. I have milder allergies to corn starch and corn syrup, but I can eat corn. Ultimately it’s annoying, but necessary to discuss.

    4. Mid*

      A dear friend of mine has a severe tomato allergy. Only tomatoes. On several occasions, people have tried to slip tomatoes into food she’s eating because they don’t think it’s a real allergy and want to test her. (Strangely enough, when she tells people she dislikes tomatoes, people seem to respect it more, instead of trying to poison her.)

      Also, some dietary restrictions are religious or deeply personal (vegan, kosher, halal, no alcohol, etc) and some people might not want to be outed by their diet as Muslim/Jewish/in recovery/pregnant/whatever else.

      If people want to be open about their dietary restrictions, great! But it should never be forced.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        I remember one time there was some comment thread here where someone kept insisting tomatoes were spicy (no not acidic, “spicy”) and then something like 300 people were like “no, they really aren’t, please talk to your doctor, you may be allergic to tomatoes”.

    5. Sloanicota*

      Meh, it’s one thing to be allergic to one specific thing, but OP said they had celiac, and I could imagine not wanting to share a condition like that with all and sundry for a lot of reasons.

    6. CubeFarmer*

      Yeah, I know that everyone is different, but I want people to know what my food allergy is (shellfish) so that they don’t accidentally give me a food with my allergen.

    7. Observer*

      t’s wild to me that you wouldn’t share your restrictions openly because that’s the best way to keep yourself safe, especially since cross-contamination is a concern.

      For a lot of people this simply is not true.

      Yes, if you are dealing with competent caterers / food service staff, letting them know is the best thing. But a LOT of other people are just not helpful. Especially for something like celiac or allergies with a really high level of sensitivity, where a lot of people just do. not. get. it.

      Also, in case like this, being open means that a lot of people who have no need to know will know about it. And you simply don’t know how they are going to react.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        I probably lean more toward disclosure because two of my allergens are airborne. I guess I can see how someone who only has ingestion based reactions might deem it not worth the fight.

    8. Disappointed Australien*

      One not mentioned is caterers/people who will try to cater for allergies without understanding the severity. You can be better off just saying “I can’t eat food prepared by others” and leave it at that rather than deal with a kitchen full of allergen and this one dish someone has made a real effort for that you can’t possibly risk trying.

      1. Freya*

        My favourite example of this was one of those cooking shows, where the contestants were given the task of preparing dairy free mini pizzas, and half of them put goats cheese on, because it’s lower in lactose. Which completely misses the point that it’s not _dairy free_! For catering purposes, I’m dairy free, because although I’m lactose intolerant and not casein-allergic, I’ve been lactose intolerant all my life and so my brain associates lots of dairy with being sick. I can tolerate _some_ dairy, especially with my lactase pills, but I really don’t like it and I prefer to save the money I spend on lactase pills for lactose-containing items that are worth it. And I am the best judge of how much I can tolerate, not the chef.

  2. Put the Blame on Edamame*

    Re: #2, we have a colleague who us leaving under a bit of a self-created storm cloud, who recently informed their manager that when their role will be posted as open, they intend to reapply for it. The job that they quit. The job that they told our manager they couldn’t possibly do without a substantial pay rise. The job they were recently discovered having made a massive expensive error in.

    So while I can’t fathom Juan’s motivations in asking Emma for a job, I can believe that it’s happening. Self awareness is a precious commodity.

  3. TA*

    I feel a bit bad for the custodian in 1. No one believed him that there were fleas, so he provided physical evidence and still nobody believed him? I might quit, too.

    As a veterinarian I can say it is very, very common for people to not realize there are fleas in their home. The eggs can lay dormant for several months, too, activated by things like vacuum cleaners (which a custodian is likely to use).

    1. Lisa*

      If a professional exterminator, who stands to make money on treatment so is motivated to say there are fleas, said there is no evidence, then I’m inclined to believe them over someone who had other work issues.

      I kind of wonder if the fleas weren’t coming in on the janitor, which would explain why he was the only one who ever found them.

      1. TA*

        Because of their life cycle they can be missed by exterminators. And environmental control of fleas is quite difficult. If there are mice or rats around the property they are likely the culprits.

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          I can see how fleas could get missed by a once-a-year residential visit from an exterminator, but this exteriminator is there on a regular basis (presumably checking rodent traps, etc.).

          The real clue is that nobody in the library, whether patron or employee, is reporting being bitten by fleas, and that they’re not showing up in any returned materials.

          I’m pretty convinced that there were no fleas in the library and that their former custodian is just a tad bit eccentric. Also, if he wasn’t good at cleaning the library (a task which he was paid to do) then I imagine that he probably isn’t a very good housekeeper in general. Combine that with the fact that he owns a dog, and it’s pretty easy to see that the fleas were coming in with him.

          1. Limmy*

            It’s extremely unlikely a patron would notice flea bites and link them to a library visit. Patrons don’t tend to spend long in a library and a library might be one of ten places the average patron visits.

            It’s very possible that dozens of patrons noticed flea bites but simply attributed them to a friend’s dog or thrift store or a million other things.

            1. Nebula*

              And yet none of the other workers aside from the custodian were getting flea bites or seeing fleas? I think it’s unlikely that there could be a flea infestation significant enough that patrons were getting bitten by fleas, that would nonetheless be entirely avoided by all workers except one.

      2. Momma Bear*

        That was my thought as well – that the janitor was picking up fleas elsewhere so that when he left, so did they.

        1. Temperance*

          I honestly figured that he was just a weirdo and brought some along in a bag to drown in a toilet to prove his point.

    2. CR*

      I don’t get this either. There were literally fleas in the library and OP was still insisting there were no fleas in the library?!

      1. HiddenT*

        All the LW saw was that there were fleas drowned in the toilet. It’s entirely possible that he was bringing fleas in himself (intentionally or not), catching them and then drowning them. The LW had an exterminator check the library and they said they didn’t find evidence of fleas.

        1. TA*

          It’s possible, but fleas don’t live on humans. They generally bite then jump off. It would be more common for them to be in the carpet or living on pest mammals around the property than it would be for the custodian to have a significant number of them on his clothes.

          It does sound like his work was poor separate from the flea issue, so it may be for the best.

          1. toolegittoresign*

            My home had a flea problem when I was a kid thanks to our cat being allowed outdoors and our home having dense wall-to-wall carpet. The cat had the kind of thick undercoat that meant we didn’t noice them until it was a big problem, and then getting rid of the fleas on the cat was a constant battle. (thank god for the modern drops stuff! wish we’d had it back in the 80s)

            I can say first-hand that I would sometimes find fleas on myself at school or at friends’ houses. No, they don’t “live” on most clean humans in terms of people having infestations on their body, but they’ll definitely hang around on humans. So, if the custodian was coming from home, it is entirely possible he was bringing in the fleas with him.

            I will also say we had to have exterminators come to our house 3 times before the flea problem totally went away. Our home was clean, my parents cleaned up every night and morning, and vacuumed every day when we were fighting the fleas. It’s a little like roaches where once you have the problem, it’s really REALLY hard to solve it. It took one big fumigation where we and the pets left the house for 3 days to get rid of the fleas. From then on, the cat could no longer go outside and my parents ripped up the carpets as soon as they could afford to.

            1. But Of Course*

              Like most things, it takes a variety of approaches. I had a flea infestation a couple years ago that I solved by bathing my pets, updating their Revolution, generous application of diatomaceous earth, and soapy water traps. It took maybe three months, but since fumigation would have broken my lease and exposed my apartment neighbors to who knows what, that wasn’t an option.

              If the custodian really was seeing fleas where no one else did, a few soapy water traps in areas he saw them would have done a great deal more to convince me than fleas that just were dead in a toilet, where they didn’t end up by chance unless they fell out of someone’s clothing when they sat down, in which case there would have been other toilet contents probably worth mentioning in the update.

        2. Peanut Hamper*

          And honestly, I don’t know that fleas can even be drowned. They are extremely light weight and even larger insects can just sit on top of the water due to water tension. I’m really giving this whole “drowned fleas in the toilet” thing a metric shit-tub of side-eye.

          1. Willow*

            They can be drowned, you just have to put a bit of dish soap in the water to break the surface tension. I foster cats and have had to deal with them sometimes.

          2. But Of Course*

            As Willow notes, you can drown them if you break the surface tension with dish soap. That said, fleas aren’t naturally occurring in an aquatic environment, but they certainly would be if, for example, someone were to capture fleas at home, kill them there, and then transport them to a workplace to throw them in a toilet as “proof” of the fleas no one else, not even trained exterminators who are there routinely, has found. Like, of all the places to find fleas, a toilet ain’t it.

          3. Security Cameras*

            I have personally drowned many fleas in a bowl of soapy water. One of my cats would come home (this was a long time ago) with at least a dozen fleas on her every night. I’d use a flea comb and put the fleas I found in the bowl. They drowned.

          4. MigraineMonth*

            I drowned fleas when my house had an infestation. I had to hold them under the water for a bit, but they’re pretty hard to kill otherwise (and I was a bit squeamish about cutting them in half as a kid)

        3. Moose*

          Having dealt with fleas (and bedbugs) in group home settings, it’s far more likely that the building had fleas than the custodian was bringing them in from elsewhere to fake an infestation. People who have never dealt with fleas are really unaware of how hard they are to spot and get rid of. I’ve had more than one exterminator tell me there weren’t any fleas in a building that was having a flea infestation. In my experience, it has to get really really bad before exterminators can see it at all.

          1. Dr. Vibrissae*

            Yes, this. People live in homes with flea infested pets and will insist there are not fleas in the house (another vet here, ask me how I know). In fact they will insist that there are no fleas as you are combing fleas and flea dirt off the indoor only pet. Fleas prefer animals to humans, and prefer to hang out and lay eggs in out of the way places with lower light. As TA says above, the eggs can lay dormant for long periods until they are activated often by vibrations like the act of moving furniture or vacuuming nearby and eggs are resistant to many of the treatments used by exterminators, which are better at targeting larvae and adults. It’s entirely possible that the fleas were in heavier numbers in areas that the custodian worked and the other staff and patrons did not regularly traffic. That doesn’t mean he was a good custodian or should have kept his job, but I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the idea that there are fleas.

      2. Celeste*

        If there is a flea anywhere around, it will find my husband and bite him. There are places we’ve found fleas this way when I never would have known there were fleas. I’m thinking there might be something similar going on with the custodian. That seems way more likely than that he was bringing in fleas from outside and drowning them. Fleas don’t typically travel on a human all the way from home, so I believe that he was picking them up there.

        1. KateM*

          In our family, I am the one whom fleas like (thankfully haven’t had them for a long time, but we used to have a grandmother at countryside with an outdoors-only fleabag dog). Always when I saw flea bites on my kids, I snuggled with them for a while to coax fleas over to myself – worked every time.

        2. Wayward Sun*

          I’m one of those people that doesn’t have an immune reaction to bug bites, so my wife is always the one that notices them. I’m sure they still bite me, but I don’t get the welt so I don’t notice.

        3. Reluctant Mezzo*

          My husband was like that too. As a child on the Oregon coast, sand fleas would come up from California just for a taste of him. And when we had bedbugs (Gone thanks to exterminators) he was their snack of choice. If someone ever develops a virus just for bedbugs, will drop several large on their GoFundMe.

        4. Calamity Janine*

          i sometimes wish i had grant money to study this, because i also have a friend who is apparently made of catnip for ticks. even and especially the ticks where humans aren’t what they want because they would much rather be on a deer. i have seen them *get chased by a tick*, with the tick in straight up pursuit like a little greyhound after a rabbit.

          somebody out there needs to figure out if there’s a common element of being really really tasty to fleas and-or ticks and-or mosquitoes. if nothing else it would be useful to know who needs to get really pestered to take their antimalarial medication and be checked for alpha-galactose allergy conferred by tick bite, lol!

      3. Strive to Excel*

        It sounds like OP told their exterminator to look for fleas and the exterminator wasn’t finding any. While I’ll give the custodian the benefit of the doubt that he’s dealing with fleas in areas of the building the patrons aren’t in much, I can’t blame OP for being skeptical if only the custodian was reporting any problems.

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          Yes, exactly. NOBODY else has reported any issues with fleas? I totally get why the OP wasn’t buying it

    3. Dawn*

      Whether they actually were present in the library, or were coming in with the custodian, it sounds like this was ultimately the best outcome for everyone; the custodian was not willing to continue to take the risk of working there, and the employer realized that they weren’t particularly impressed with the custodian’s performance in the first place, and everyone parted ways.

      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah, OP was generally dissatisfied with the Janitor’s performance, the flea thing is a bit of a red herring (scarlet flea??) – if there are fleas, OP will presumably find out soon enough, from another source who doesn’t have attendance problems.

    4. Ellis Bell*

      He didn’t quit, he was fired because of all the other issues with his work, like no showing without calling and not being able to clean things. The reason OP had professionals check on what he was saying is because he didn’t think the employee was the most reliable narrator.

      1. Wayward Sun*

        The comment “my hair can’t take that chance” is especially odd since fleas can’t live in human hair. They’re not lice.

    5. Artemesia*

      Think of the Alien eggs in Alien which pop open and attach when an appropriate host comes by. I remember walking on the carpet of a rental one time and having my lower legs covered in flea bites as the dormant fleas could sense a meal walking by.

    6. Limmy*

      Yeah, the guy who escaped the job where he was gaslighted about the fact the library factually, objectively HAD FLEAS had a heck of a lucky escape. Poor guy. Hope he wound up somewhere less dismissive of blue collar workers.

      1. But Of Course*

        Yep, blue collar workers never, ever lie, especially not to cover up their own inadequate job performance. It is known.

      2. Calamity Janine*

        this is a pet peeve i know, but reaching a different conclusion than someone is not the same as gaslighting. it’s not an intentional campaign to make someone doubt their own sanity. it’s two people looking at the facts in evidence – only one person can find any evidence of fleas in an area, with neither patrons nor professional exterminators being able to find additional evidence – and concluding two different things. the LW concluded that it’s a problem following around a singular person and not reported by anyone else in this area, so it probably is not a problem located in the area but instead something else. (especially because the LW knows the person doing the reporting to be an unreliable narrator in other respects.) concluding “i see fleas, there are definitely fleas infesting the building” is one option to take with the given evidence. LW simply reached the other conclusion by weighing the facts in a different manner (e.g. the custodian is not going to discount himself for previous half-truths and aggravating behavior, due to his own bias).

        that’s just a disagreement, not gaslighting. it doesn’t need to be pathologized by way of misusing a specific term from mental healthcare. not only is it not a useful conversation, as it’s just playing armchair psych with the LW, it’s getting a term for a real phenomenon wrong as to dilute it in meaning and enable people to brush it off instead of recognizing its seriousness. (as a good example of this phenomenon, consider how actual management of panic disorders, PTSD, etc has become harder since pop culture decided that to be triggered by something is not to have a severe reaction due to your mental health burdens… but equivalent to just being a little annoyed, so it’s *funny* and *acceptable* to do to other people for a laugh.)

      3. Finches.*

        This isn’t how gaslighting works and misusing the term just waters it down more than it already is.

        And while LWs and commentators here sometimes like to be all “oh those poor blue collar folks, they just don’t know any better,” I don’t think it’s fair to try and paint this situation in that light. The custodian had performance and attendance issues, no one else was reporting flea problems *including* other people who spent considerable time in the library like staff, etc. It’s definitely possible that the library had a flea problem for real—the way the LW is all “no we don’t!!” makes it seem like it’s something they’d be ashamed of but like, it’s a building heavily used by the public AND they’re bringing stuff in from their own homes: infestations happen. But strictly from a “can this person do the job we hired them for” standpoint, the answer was not a resounding yes. So: everyone moves on.

  4. Dawn*

    Sympathies, OP5; I’m a recent vegan and one of my organizations planned a potluck lunch (for which they apparently had no plans to collect any restrictions.) When I raised the concern that they should ask people for their dietary restrictions, they leaped into action – asking the group to share “any allergens” on a public spreadsheet.

    I have opted out of the potluck this year.

    1. Lisa*

      My company is very very good about accommodations for company-provided meals, but for potlucks we don’t try, since it’s up to people what they want to bring. We do provide labels that people can use to say what the dish is, and request that they state if it either contains any common allergens, or is vegetarian, vegan, etc. but a potluck is voluntary and it’s not like we can force anyone to bring anything in particular.

      1. Dawn*

        I mean, you absolutely can force people to bring particular things if you wanted to enforce that.

        But that aside, this was for a volunteer organization rather than a company and it’s an organization mostly made up of (much) older white ladies, and I have no real faith in their respecting dietary restrictions and was largely trying to encourage more mindfulness overall. Most of them are of the mindset that everyone will be fine with meat-and-dairy-and-wheat-heavy dishes, and we are struggling to attract newer, younger members as it is.

        1. Coverage Associate*

          Just hypothetically, if bringing a particular food to a work event is a job requirement, doesn’t work have to pay for the food and associated time? It’s basically sending an admin to pick up all the food, which is normal, except sending each person to get one food.

          Church has started assignments for potlucks, and I am opting out.

          1. Dawn*

            Nope, because work can have legitimate reasons for telling you to bring a certain thing, or more to the point, not to bring certain things. You should still have the choice to opt out entirely, of course. But they can tell you, “if you are participating in the potluck, you need to make sure your dish doesn’t contain X allergens” for example which is really more what’s being talked about here and does not obligate them to comp you for it.

    2. Massive Dynamic*

      Ah yes, the potluck while vegan… I just make a vegan dish that I know I love and will fill me up, then I only eat that and no other food. I wouldn’t expect coworkers to veganize anything for me and if they like what I made, then I’ve done my vegan evangelization for the year.

      1. Dawn*

        I don’t expect it but I do think it’s useful for people to at least be aware of. And like I mentioned in another post, I really wanted this particular group to be thinking more broadly about dietary restrictions, particularly including cultural ones.

      2. Celeste*

        Vegan here, this is my solution too. For potlucks I think it’s too complicated for everyone to try to keep restrictions in mind when people with restrictions can always bring whatever they want.

        1. Dawn*

          Honestly I was more annoyed by the lack of acknowledgement that there could be dietary restrictions other than “allergies” than anything else.

        2. Wayward Sun*

          If I know there are people who are vegan or vegetarian, I’ll try to bring something that meets their requirements (and label it as such.)

          For allergens, though, I just label. I’m not comfortable trying to ensure there isn’t cross-contamination, so I would never vouch anything that I cook in my kitchen is free of any given allergen.

      3. Artemesia*

        With veganism or vegetarianism you can venture out from your one dish — that fruit salad is going to be okay if it doesn’t have a dairy dressing. But for things like celiac, the risk of subtle contamination is just too high. I’d be eating out of my own little bento box for that.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          As long as there’s no Surprise! bacon.

          Lots of people actually like bacon. You don’t have to hide the fact that you put it in the green beans. And the soup. And the potato salad. And the macaroni salad. And the brownies? Really? Fine, just please label it.

          (Ironically, “bacon bits” and bacon flavoring are frequently vegan.)

    3. Ro*

      In my first job I was in charge of organizing some xmas stuff which included a “Christmas food” competition. Whoever wanted to would bring in food for lunch and at the end of the day people would vote for their favourite dishes.

      I thought I was so clever when I decided the contestants would be given recipe cards to write down the ingredients.

      Turns out people can a) not be trusted to remember everything they put in and b) even if they list everything diligently they don’t necessarily know what is in an ingredient (e.g a tomato paste might have celery in it but they list “tomato sauce” as the ingredient).

      I just think if you have any restrictions it isn’t safe to touch pot luck food, coworkers dont have to be malicious its so easy to make a mistake.

      1. Dawn*

        Yeah, it can be pretty rough. And people really underestimate how much of some things is in processed foods! It was shocking to me after I started reading ingredient lists as a vegan just how many things have milk in them in some form or another.

    4. Jaina Solo*

      My work actually asks us to privately let a specific person know–they keep track of that however and make sure to keep an eye on things.

      The only other option I could see is if there’s a field in your HRIS that could hold that info. Those are usually private except for your manager or system admins. But it might feel better to still have explained your restriction to a person whom you know to go to with follow-up questions. Our person is really great at finding us individually if there’s a concern and it does help streamline sharing the info.

      1. Calamity Janine*

        to repeat what i said in those comments… the only update you need is that it is absolutely a fetish thing, the dude also gets off on making others repulsed when they see it, and the LW should treat him as basically the elephant’s foot in Chernobyl and stay away lol. it’s just far too much effort and far too many “coincidences” in a pattern that many people, especially people involved in kink, are very, very, very… very… familiar with. it’s not innocent. it’s part of the game to them. you honestly don’t need to understand or engage with them (as you doing that is the point of the game they’re playing!) beyond getting out of the fallout radius.

        we don’t really need an update from a letter writer about if their tongue actually goes all tingly after licking the elephant’s foot at the former reactor core and if it really would make their hair fall out. we can probably extrapolate it’s a bad thing and we don’t need the LW to leap into the danger in order to tell us exactly.

        …i know this is a little harsh, and y’all aren’t actually wanting to say that the LW should go poke the bear for your entertainment. i just also cannot overstate how badly i remain skeezed out by that dude because it’s such a terribly common thing. it’s “guys who get bounced from any good bdsm dungeon and if they’re there than you shouldn’t be” 100. it’s not even 101, it’s the prerequisite you have to take before you hit the next course about how to enshrine and defend community missing stairs. it’s just so damn common it’s truly exhausting. please know that my frustration is with the people who pull this move – not with people who are, well, innocent enough to get pulled in with their strategy that relies on human beings behaving in a reasonable manner. so i’m sorry if this sounds a little like a scolding – it’s way more that i’m trying to push you out of the way of a bullet while yelling “nnnooooooooo!” lol

        if you’re wondering how anyone can be into that, well, it’s not my thing either so i can’t tell you. however i*can* tell you it’s a question for nsfw fetish spaces and not for askamanager. and honestly i just. i wouldn’t lol, i wouldn’t, just chalk it up to the vast tapestry of human life and get down Mr President they’re shootin’

        1. Finches.*

          OMG Thank you! I do NOT want an update on that letter. If the “gross” content in question were a different subject matter, I might feel differently but barfing is one of those things that I just CANNOT with (and all scatological humor/topics).

  6. Sparkles McFadden*

    I am going to start using “My hair can’t take that chance” as my go-to refusal in as many situations as possible.

    2. Nonsense*

      It’s a great parting statement, but also, fleas don’t live in human hair? Our hair is too fine for them. Pets get fleas and humans get lice and lice and fleas aren’t the same thing.

      1. Another Kristin*

        This is a common misconception – there are species of flea which live on humans! Much more rare than they used to be, thankfully, and not the same ones that live in dogs and cats. Just another thing to worry about if your head feels itchy…

        1. Nonsense*

          Thank you for the nightmares! I’ve had a flea infestation twice and we just had a lice scare at work (coworker’s kid had lice and his ex wasn’t treating it and didn’t warn him before the handoff) so even random itches make me startle some days. Now I get to add another fear! :D

          1. Slippers*

            People refusing to treat head lice make me so sad. We see that at my kids’ elementary school. The school offers treatment kits and the nurse will even do the applications, and people refuse.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        My hair can’t take that chance, it just can’t Warren! And what will the other dogs say about Bruiser?

  7. Username Lost to Time*

    What does it mean to be let go on “good terms” and does that mean Juan is eligible to be rehired if all institutional knowledge of his performance issues is lost to time?

    1. OP #2*

      I don’t know the details, but where I live it usually means they reach some sort of settlement where instead of being dismissed, they treat it as a resignation. He’d still get a good severance package above what’s legally required, they’ll probably give a decent (not glowing) reference if asked, that sort of thing.

      The company is small enough that I don’t think institutional knowledge would be such an issue as much as some manager or director just deciding to give him a second chance to be honest.

  8. RCB*

    Juan’s clueless is stunning, but you do see it from time to time, and it always amazes me that people are so completely blind to how absolutely they F’ed something.

    Not work related but on a small nonprofit I am involved with we had a board member who resigned mid-term a few years ago for “personal reasons” (seemed to be a personality dispute but none of us are quiet sure the real story), but then ran for the board again and was voted on, and because no one wanted it he was selected as President. It went as badly as you’d imagine and he resigned, but then did a “just kidding” even though you can’t un-resign, and at the next meeting several of us confronted him about his abhorent behavior so he resigned for real this time, but the next day was back to acting like he was still on the board, so we had to make it crystal clear that he was absolutely NOT on the board any longer. This was a month before the annual board elections and he initially submitted his name to be on the board again! We had to make it very clear to him that we had looked into the bylaws and made sure we all knew how to remove a member from the board, for any reason, so he should just back off now and save us all the trouble, because he wasn’t going to stay on the board past the very first meeting if he decided to run. Just absolute cluelessness.

  9. But Of Course*

    I’m allergic to chocolate, parmesan, and cilantro. Fortunately, they aren’t anaphylactic allergies, and I eat all three routinely (though parmesan is the least because of the overpowering smell). Also allergic to marijuana, cigarette smoke, and have intolerances to alcohol and caffeine, as well as a reaction to fried food if the fryer oil has an unknown cross-contaminant in it, and the number of people who think this makes me an object of pity who can never have fun or french fries is much, much too high for me to feel like inviting public scrutiny of my medical needs.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      I totally understand!! People really struggle to wrap their heads around eating some stuff sometimes in specific situations, but not others – I swear I’m not trying to offend, but explaining the complicated math is not happening lol

      I was diagnosed with a laundry list of food intolerances in my mid-20s and when I was closer to diagnosis time and still in ‘this new thing sucks!!!!’ territory, I was happy to trot out my list and lament with people that yeah I basically can’t eat anything wtf! Now that I’m almost a decade past diagnosis and have well-established safe foods and new comfort foods and upgraded culinary skills, I really don’t want to have the discussion of how my allergies would disrupt YOUR life or how you could never eat the same things every day or how you think my go-to food choice is yucky. I JUST had to hand over my list for a holiday meal, and rolled my eyes through the ‘oh forgot about that’ and the ‘really??’s and frankly I expect to be able to eat rolls and salad

      1. Freya*

        For catering purposes, I’m dairy free diabetic. One conference, the catering interpreted that as nightshade free, so my boring salad had cheese in and ranch dressing.

  10. AnonForThis*

    Now if only I can convince them that cross-contaminated utensils and a single salad isn’t enough gluten-free food…..

    LW5 I feel you. So many buffets where people use the same knife for multiple dishes and one work lunch where the nut free offering was literally just a couple of slices of ham and some lettuce.

    1. Elara Harper*

      Also, if OP5 does manage to convince them on one salad isn’t enough, I’d like that script so I can modify it to use to convince my firm that 1 vegan pizza out of 10 doesn’t really cover the vegans/vegetarians/kosher among us.

    2. Freya*

      I remember the dance camp where the food-requirements lunch on the last day involved make-your-own gluten-free wraps with a variety of leftovers from previous meals to use as fillings. The gluten free wraps were too brittle to use as wraps. For catering purposes, I’m dairy free diabetic, and all I could eat was the shredded lettuce.

  11. A Simple Narwhal*

    I’m so glad that #3 worked out! I’m also glad they clarified that there were other reasons that motivated them to relocate and that they were probably going to move there anyway (which makes sense, just upon rereading the original letter it seems like they only moved because their boss told them it would help their career).

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, I remember OP clarifying that in the comments and being relieved. I could see a boss being encouraging if OP said “I’d love to move to X place, do you think the company would support me moving there” versus it being the BOSS saying, “I think you’d have a bright future if you moved to Y place” – while knowing there were layoffs brewing! Glad OP is doing alright now.

  13. Sloanicota*

    #2 is so weird, but also kind of sad to me. It must be that Juan really doesn’t have much self-awareness but also, based on this story, I think I’d warn him that Emma is REALLY not his friend. Who knows what the truth is there, at this point.

    1. Sloanicota*

      I think there were some past letters with OPs wondering if they should warn a candidate that their references were sinking them; this seems applicable.

    2. OP#2*

      Yeah I see what you mean, it’s all very odd. But she told me in confidence and because she seemed to be really worried about me, from what we talked it really did not seem like she’s just going around lying (the issues she told me about are demonstrably true) or bad-mouthing him to everyone in general. So it’s a 50-year family friendship vs some guy she wasn’t even lying about… yeah I’m staying out of it.

      I’d consider it if the circumstances were different, though.

  14. Managercanuck*

    OP1 triggered a Guiding campfire memory:

    “Flea
    Flea fly
    Flea fly mosquito
    Oh, no, no, no more mosquito
    Itchy-itchy, scratchy-scratchy,
    Ooo I got one on my backy.
    Beat that big bad bug with the bug spray!
    Shhhhhhh!”

    1. CareerChanger*

      I forgot all about this! Our final line went “ugh went the bug when I got’im with the bug spray” and I get it in my head regularly, but couldn’t remember how it started.

    2. Delta Delta*

      I also know this camp song with a variation. The last lines I knew were:

      Quick get the bug spray
      I think he went that-a-way
      Shhhhhhh ugh I got that bug.

      Thanks for the fun camp song memories!

  15. Chauncy Gardener*

    “and he and his fleas have not been seen again in our building”
    This, THIS is part of why I love this blog!

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