updates: the complaining coworker, the coworker who won’t share a file, and more

by Alison Green on December 13, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are five updates from past letter-writers.

1. My coworker keeps complaining he didn’t get promoted — but it’s his own fault

I figured I would give an update on my coworker, Roman, who complained about not getting the promotion he thought he deserved.

The response I received pretty much solidified my feelings and I told him he was no longer allowed to complain at me as the decision had been made and it was time to move on. However, as some may have suspected when I noted his lack of soft skills, things did not improve.

A couple of months later, we had a very large project that was very stressful for the whole team and he just amplified the stress from start to finish with his constant criticism of every decision made by every single team member.

When the project concluded, the decision was made to let Roman go.

After he left, it was like a dark cloud was lifted from the entire office. Staff who barely worked with Roman all breathed a sigh of relief. Team members who were quiet before came out of their shell.

The stressful projects were no longer stressful. My anxiety about my boss taking vacation went away because Roman wasn’t there to sow unease through the team anymore.

It really does make or break a workplace when there is someone there bringing everyone else down and I respect my boss for seeing that Roman was not fit for a leadership position and for recognizing that he had become toxic to all staff in the office.

2. My manager is upset that I’m paid more and get a benefit she doesn’t get (#3 at the link)

I appreciated your advice and the thoughtful comments. My manager did stop bringing it up with me, but has stopped approving my PTO. She did initially tell me she was trying to keep it at what she felt was a fair amount…which was less than the accrual rate (think, everyone accrues 20 days annually, she felt I should take max 15 annually). It ended up going to HR who told her clearly her interpretation of fairness was way off base, but that she is within her rights to deny PTO for any business reason, which she is doing consistently. I’m checked out and job hunting.

3. My coworker won’t share a file we both use (#3 at the link)

I created my own file. It took probably most of the week to do it and it seems against logic to do it. But I have her periodically update me with anything in the sheet (so she’s also created extra work for herself). I think it would have been better to have her share her file (your advice), since it quite honestly is her job. But there are a lot of things that is her job that she fights and doesn’t have to do — my requests aren’t the only ones she refuses to do. Our other admin assistant went to work for another department so a few of her responsibilities were assumed by the difficult one. She’ll pick what she wants to do and not do the rest.

The kicker is she is in line for a decent increase due to her taking on more responsibilities with no complaint. Our manager is a really nice guy, some would even say a pushover. These are not great qualities in a manager. For those who want a “happy ending” or at the least, some karmic justice, this update will leave you dissatisfied.

4. I retired a year ago and my old coworker still calls for help (#4 at the link)

I stuck to my guns and the other employee stopped calling me for help with my former job responsibilities. There was one exception but it was genuinely something that probably couldn’t be accomplished any other way than with my help.

But afterwards I did some thinking about the bigger picture, and realized that it was okay to not be invited to those gatherings. I enjoyed the work, my coworkers are good people, but for me employment has only been a way to pay the bills. I have always made friends at work but ultimately, I wanted to make a clean break from that world, and just be myself without all the drama of a workplace.

So I am at peace with the whole thing, and a family member added my cell phone to their plane, so my monthly plan is much less expensive anyway now!

Thanks for everyone’s support and help.

5. Accidentally low-cut uniforms (#4 at the link)

I had one foot out the door at the time of my letter and gave notice soon after. I was a key person in reopening a building that had been closed for over a year (hence the new scrubs), so I was so busy with that project and training the coverage for that building that it didn’t get mentioned. I’m sure someone will say something eventually, though. There are some pretty vocal team members who will eventually go into that area and remark on the scrub design.

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{ 57 comments }

{ 57 comments… read them below }

  1. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

    #2 when you leave make sure you specifically mention the continued denial of PTO.

    this is how you lose good people.

    2. ChattyDelle*

      this!!!! Upper management may not be aware she’s doing this to you & since HR doesn’t have your back, upper management needs to know

    3. SpaceySteph*

      Also if your PTO is paid out when you separate, I’d be mentioning how she cost the company money as well as an employee.

        1. Disappointed Australien*

          Yeah, the whole point is that you take it while you’re working there. But if PTO has to be approved, and you can’t get it approved, then “unlimited” is a malicious lie better read as “zero PTO, not even the legal minimum”. In some countries that would be grounds for legal action but I suspect in most of the US it means the employee is exempt (lit ‘beneath the law’) and there are no consequences for the employer.

          To me unlimited PTO in LW’s case would mean take the maternity leave, find another job, see how long it takes for the current employer to switch you from “unlimited PTO” to “former employee”. If the ad was correct the answer is “never”… unlimited means unlimited.

          1. Roland*

            In places with a legal minimum, you do still accrue it even though you have “unlimited” pto. It’s just that the federal legal minimum in the US is zero. If you work in a city/state/country with minimums you’ll still accrue them. Not defending the practice but it’s not a legal loophole

          2. Wayward Sun*

            The whole idea of “unlimited PTO” is they can make it hard for you to take, but they don’t owe you for unused days when you eventually leave. It’s a scam. Most people with unlimited PTO take fewer days than people with normal PTO systems.

          1. Cinn*

            The original letter says their increase bumped them from accrued PTO to unlimited. So I guess the LW is using the accrual as comparison to indicate if they are taking way more leave than their colleagues or not..?

    4. Observer*

      Definitely mention it.

      In the meantime, it might be worth it to mention it both to HR and management above your boss.

      Basically point out that your manager explicitly told you that she does not want to allow you to take all of the PTO that is coming to you out of “fairness” and that even though HR explicitly told her that that’s not how this works, she is still doing the same thing, except now she is claiming that it’s for “business reasons.”

      But also, ask her *in writing* what her “business reasons” are for denying your PTO requests. That could turn out to be useful.

      1. refl*

        Agreed. Unfortunately, I have seen several situations where HR explicitly instructed the manager how to be nasty without causing legal problems. Like telling them ‘you cannot tell them you denied a request because they do not deserve it. You need to say that it is because of business reasons’. The OP will probably have a feeling if this is the case or not. If it is, there is not gain in talking to HR.

    5. Palmer*

      Mention continued denial of pto AND the way that you were being targeted by your boss for your area’s cost of living.

      Having the cost of living index difference of your area vs your boss’s area on hand so you can say ‘I get paid 45% more than others in my position but things cost 40% more’

    6. BigLawEx*

      Does she think she’ll get an increase in pay if you leave? This punitive behavior is quite galling.

      1. Lab Boss*

        It doesn’t have to be that logical. It’s as simple as, “I’m angry that you’re getting something I’m not, so I’m going to punish you for it.”

  2. Dasein9 (he/him)*

    Ugh, LW2, I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I’d be checked out and job hunting, too. While it’s reasonable for your manager to have power over when you take PTO, it isn’t reasonable for her to have power over whether you take PTO. That is part of your compensation. This sounds like retaliation for earning more than your manager and should probably go back to HR with a list of dates you requested PTO and were denied.

    1. I Have RBF*

      Yeah, she’s using the “business reason” excuse to retaliate against LW#2. I wish you the best of luck in your job search.

    2. Nesta*

      I agree with this; that update infuriated me.

      I hope what that so-called manager is earning now is the most she ever earns. It would be great to see such a person demoted out of management positions.

      1. Oh Boy*

        LW#2, I am curious if she denies without an explanation. If she doesn’t provide one, I would ask for the business reason for the denial. This is retaliatory in nature and should be brought back to HR. Even if you are leaving.

    3. Lana Kane*

      So retaliatory. I can understand the OP being checked out and focusing on a job hunt. But if it takes a while and this continues I think it’s definitely worth escalating again, using that framing.

    4. Momma Bear*

      I agree. If LW is job hunting they have little to lose. If the boss isn’t approving a reasonable amount of PTO or if the reasons are nonsense, then I think it’s worth revisiting with HR. If, for example, LW hasn’t been able to take a day off in months or has had unnecessary push back for something like holiday time or a family event, then that’s all the more reason to talk to HR about how the manager is behaving. Does LW have that ‘keep it under 15″ in writing? Because that’s not what “unlimited” PTO means, especially if people in similar roles are taking 20.

    5. Frankie Mermaids*

      From re-reading the original letter, it sounds like before they had “unlimited” PTO, their accrued PTO bank could at least roll over. It sounds like LW2 is being hit twice: once by effectively docking her 5 days of PTO and then again by not being able to roll anything over. It might be worth going back to HR and asking to be put back in the tier that would allow her to roll over accrued PTO since her Manager is effectively stealing compensation.

      2. Artemesia*

        And make a fuss and escalate each time it is denied. Be the bigger problem. Make her give the business reason — after the break when it was not necessary to have had it cancelled report back that this seems retaliatory to HR copied to the next level manager. If in fact you can’t roll over then definitely make a fuss to the next level about theft of compensation.

    6. Fluffy Fish*

      Yes please go back to HR. If you didn’t mention that you believe its retaliation before, do it now with all the proof you can gather including every single time you were denied leave and the “reason”.

      1. Learn ALL the things*

        And if you do go back to HR, ask that the grandboss be included in any meetings going forward.

  3. FunkyMunky*

    if I was LW2 I wouldn’t even ask for days off, I’d just mark myself OOO and take them as I please.

    1. Thepuppiesareok*

      Same. I’m so over bosses acting like PTO is a privilege to be earned and not part of your compensation package. Especially when I’m already checked out.

    3. PlainJane*

      I’m not even sure it depends on the job. If you’re just announcing that you’re gone and don’t have approval for it, they have to scramble to cover your work (this is especially true of front-facing positions where a warm body absolutely has to be there).

      The problem, of course, is that the manager will not approve, and has no legitimate reason for that. If there’s a union, grieve it. If not, go to grand-boss. If that’s not feasible, dust off the resume.

  4. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

    So sorry #2. Your boss is being awful as is your HR. I mean, HR saying “she is within her rights to deny PTO for any business reason” is just bananas. “Any” business reason? Really? The business reason should be compelling and urgent with a clear opportunity for you to take leave at another time instead. The bar for denying PTO should be high, not just “any” reason the boss can come up with.

    I hope your next update is from greener pastures.

    1. Kyrielle*

      YES. As a software engineer, the fact that we always have bugs and enhancements is not a reason to never give me time off. However, having a scheduled release-and-major-demo coming up *is* a reason to deny me leave for a couple weeks before it, if they want to. Anything that comes up just before that will need an all-hands-on-deck response. (Assuming you don’t have that sort of thing every month, because if you do, you are managing multiple processes very poorly.)

    2. Ally McBeal*

      I’d be asking for written documentation of the business reason, every single time. Including my reply of “ok, understanding that Dec. 11-13 has been denied because [boss’s justification], please let me know which of the following dates are approved instead of the original dates…” and offer at least 2-3 options. CC HR on all of it, BCC my personal email.

  5. FSU*

    LW2, are you allowed to cash out your unused PTO when you leave?

    I just learned the my company updated their policy so that unused PTO is forfeit when you leave, so in case your company is the same, try to use it up before you leave. You earned it.

    1. Kyle S.*

      At least in California, accrued PTO must be paid out at termination. Which some claim is one reason some companies have moved to “unlimited” PTO for highly compensated employees—since it doesn’t accrue, you don’t have to pay it out, which eliminates the risk of a sudden hundred-thousand-dollar expense when someone leaves with three months of accrued PTO.

      1. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

        Is it legal in California to switch to unlimited PTO and not pay out existing, banked PTO?

        1. Palmer*

          Looks like yes.

          IANAL & citing my source: jdsupra website with ending unlimited-pto-in-california-is-this-6077801/ (I don’t know AAM’s website linking rules/etiquette)

          > How do we transition from an accrued PTO to unlimited PTO?
          > Transitioning from accrued PTO to unlimited PTO involves careful consideration.
          > Set a deadline for California employees to use up accrued vacation time before the company transitions to unlimited PTO. However, because accrued vacation time is considered earned wages, California employees cannot be forced to “use it or lose it.” The Company will have to monitor to ensure employees take the vacation or leave the accrual on the books until it is paid out, at the latest, upon termination of employment.

      2. fhqwhgads*

        Or they just don’t let you accrue 3 months in the first place, which is probably more common. Use it or lose it isn’t legal in CA, but use it or pay-it-out-at-year-end is. As is “you can’t have more than X banked”.
        The way I usually see this handled (in my part of California) is first they implement an accrual cap. So you stop accruing immediately if you’re already over it. Then once they’ve got everyone at or below the new cap (by continuing to take PTO whilst not accruing), they switch to other models.

    2. Emperor Kuzco*

      My last job had unlimited PTO, so since you didn’t ‘earn’ it, you couldn’t cash it out when you left. If they have a similar policy, then poor LW2 is being screwed over twice.

      1. Spacewoman Spiff*

        Yeah, that was mentioned in the original letter–that when they were “upgraded” to unlimited PTO, they lost all their banked PTO. I would have lost my mind over that and probably started jobhunting right then.

    3. bamcheeks*

      Usually the business advantage to offering unlimited leave is that you cannot cash it out, because you haven’t technically accrued any.

        1. the bones are their money*

          I can see why people would think this, especially given the way soooo many companies use unlimited PTO policies against their employees (no cashing out, cultivating a culture that discourages PTO use, etc.)

          However, I personally *love* having unlimited PTO as an employee. I have some chronic health issues that result in me taking more sick days than the average person and it’s a huge relief to be able to call out when needed without worrying whether I’ll be paid for that day. It also means that I can take the sick days I need without sacrificing vacation time. I can plan a vacation well in advance and know that I won’t need to cancel or shorten it if health problems flare up in the interim.
          The removal of that massive source of stress, combined with the ability to actually take the time I need to care for my health AND still have vacation time to relax/decompress, results in me being a more effective and present employee, and has frankly been a enormous boon to my overall well-being since I took this job. (For the past few years, my combined per-year PTO has far exceeded 2 weeks.)

          However, I know I am very lucky in that I work for a company whose culture doesn’t discourage the use of the unlimited PTO policy, especially on my immediate team. My current manager is supportive and approves our PTO requests without prejudice. The company’s official PTO policy encourages its use but also mentions “within reason” and “as long as there is coverage” etc. which is open to interpretation by leaders and managers. So I think the individual experience here can vary widely depending on the team size and the team leadership, and I understand that that potential for imbalance is one of the major issues with policies of this nature. But one-size-fits-all policies aren’t going to be equitable either, especially for people like me.

          I don’t know what the solution is, but I wish everyone could have the flexibility to take the paid time they need without sacrificing compensation or opportunities.

          1. I Have RBF*

            This is what I have, and my manager models taking suitable PTO, plus asks us to reserve our time off for holidays and stuff well in advance. My wife is in home hospice for terminal cancer. The fact that I have “unlimited” vacation and unlimited sick means I can take her for appointments without my management chain beefing.

            I work remotely, and although our CEO has said “If you live near an office you have to come in three days a week.”, I live hundreds of miles from any office. He’s also trying to force “culture” by demanding “cameras on” in meetings, but that directive is more observed in the breach than in fact. I’m at the LOL phase on this.

          2. Riley*

            I used to work at a place that had limited vacation time (that they called PTO) and unlimited sick time (that they called sick time). We could use sick time for doctor’s visits, too, not just illness. It was actually pretty awesome.

  6. Workerbee*

    OP#3 I’m not clear on if you ever did bring up to the boss your coworker’s blatant violation of not sharing that exceedingly important file. If you haven’t, do so now. And also cite all the extra work YOU have been consistently doing, not only in creating your own file and all that additional crap, but that YOU have been the one people come to thanks to your colleague’s unreasonable behavior!

    Why shouldn’t you be in line for that decent increase yourself? She actively works to make your life and others harder at work. If your boss is such a pushover, use that to your advantage. Keep bringing all this up until he does something about it.

    1. Beany*

      Agreed.

      What I couldn’t tell in that original letter is whether the shared file was a management mandate, or just a good idea by the previous admin assistant. It shouldn’t matter really, but does the “pushover” manager even know that this file existed, and how things used to work?

      Given that she’s apparently telling you about the updates when she changes something, I don’t understand any part of her behavior. Unless it’s really because she doesn’t know how to work with shared documents, and is afraid of nuking something?

      Whatever the reason, Pushover Manager needs at minimum to be told about the situation, and how much extra work is being created by it, not to mention additional points of failure as things will inevitably fall through the cracks.

      1. StarTrek Nutcase*

        Managers like that mainly benefit poorer employees and turn a blind eye to the repercussions of that on better employees. In the first 20+ yrs working, I spent emotional energy thinking about this, resenting both manager & crap employee, and picking up the slack. I’m slow but I do eventually. So my last 20 yrs, I deliberately didn’t invest myself (does take effort but gets easier). So such managers get exactly and only that from me, I don’t assist or mentor crap employees beyond pointing them to manager, don’t “share” info minimum, and do not pick up slack (if must, I put in minimal effort & slow down). At first, it hurt my inner self to not always perform at my best and instead at a middle of the road rate. But I got over that (mostly).

        So managers & coworkers got back what they gave. Crappy ones I tolerated as above until I could move on. Good ones got my best & above. I firmly believe we teach people how to treat us.

  7. ashie*

    #1, that sort of happened where I work. One team member left (of his own accord, he wasn’t pushed out or anything) and suddenly the entire department was smiling and collaborating and enjoying their work. We didn’t even realize there was a problem until he was gone.

  8. Observer*

    #1 – It sounds like your boss is a reasonable person and a reasonable boss. That is really good news, job wise.

    But also, take this as a lesson for the future. Especially since even here you do have management responsibilities. It’s *so* important to understand that toxic people are not just “not great”, but they actively harm others and degrade the work and the workplace. So don’t let that kind of thing fester if you have any choice in the matter.

  9. Hlao-roo*

    #4 – I’m glad you don’t have to field calls from your old coworkers anymore. I hope you continue to enjoy your retirement!

  10. Another Kristin*

    LW3, congratulations to your colleague for discovering from first principles a key tenet of information management – the need for a single source of truth. If there are two sources of truth, i.e., two lists of POs and contracts, then both of them are wrong. Your coworker’s bananapants refusal to share a document that you need to back her up has made it so no one can trust that either of you has the correct answer! Just stellar work on her part!

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