how can I convince a new job to let me work from home, staff gets ready to leave before the end of their shift, and more

by Alison Green on January 10, 2025

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. How can I advocate to work from home in an interview when it seems against company culture?

I have been a full-time remote employee since late 2017. This organization has always been fully remote and I have thrived in this environment. I do good work and feel close to my colleagues, whom I see in person once or twice a year. I do not feel I am missing out by being in an office nor do I feel my job would be better done in an office environment. Probably important to note is that my organization is a consultancy, working with clients across the U.S.

For reasons that have nothing to do with the work set-up, it’s time for me to move on from this role. A former colleague has offered me a position that would be very similar to my current role, except I’d be doing it in-house rather than for external clients. Salary is market-low and healthcare premiums are extremely expensive, but the work seems interesting. More than anything, I’m ready for a change from my current situation, so would be willing to give it a shot.

During my first conversation with my former colleague, who would be my boss, she reiterated that the role would be completely remote, but it’d be ideal if I could travel to the office for a few days once a month. The office is located 2.5 hours from my home, which is not ideal but fine.

Since that conversation, however, I’m getting the vibe that it might not be as remote-friendly as my former boss presented, and I am worried about getting into a situation where I may be forced into coming into the office regularly or losing my job. Glassdoor is riddled with reviews about how no one is allowed to work from home and how the CEO is vocally against it. Then, I received an email from my would-be-boss asking if I would consider moving to the area where the job is in exchange for $5,000 in moving expenses. (And no, I would absolutely not move to this area, especially for the salary offered.)

I am confident this will come up in my interview with the CEO, which is this Friday. What aspects of WFH productivity should I come prepared to defend? And how can I assess for red flags that might indicate a WFH bait-and-switch? My husband is a stay-at-home-dad with much less marketable skills than me, and being let go from a job would be financially devastating to my family. We already live paycheck to paycheck, so if I take this role, I need to make it work.

You’re not going to be able to change the CEO’s mind on remote work. The Glassdoor reviews make it clear people who work there have already tried; as an outside candidate, you’re not going to succeed where they failed.

More importantly, you should not take this job. Or at least you shouldn’t take it without a very direct conversation with the hiring manager about what you read on Glassdoor. Unless she says, “Oh, that was the previous CEO; the new one is much more WFH-friendly and the culture has totally changed,” this is a recipe for bad things.

Even if you get the remote work agreement in writing, they can decide to change it at any time, and you can end up subject to a lot of pressure to move … or not included in projects, info distribution, and collaboration that you would need to do well in the job … or may simply end up getting told they’ve decided it’s not feasible to have someone remote after all. If you were comfortable with that risk, it would be one thing — but you’re describing it as financially devastating. This isn’t even a job you’re all that excited about! Throw in the low salary and high health insurance premiums, and it’s not a job that fits your needs.

2. I accidentally left the pumping room a mess

I am so embarrassed right now. I want to hide under my desk.

I have been pumping in an unused breakroom/ storage room in our office. Cases of water bottles are piled so high that the space can’t be used for much, but there is a table and chair and enough space for my needs. There is no lock, but I have put up a sign and have had no issues thus far.

Monday, our afternoon meeting ran long (it is an at-work phone meeting, so I was pumping during it in the room). I had to rush out the office to get my daughter at daycare. Tuesday, I unexpectedly had to stay at home with my older daughter. I had the thought, “I should get my pump.” However, I would have had to make my six-year-old walk with me the few blocks from/to the parking garage in the freezing weather and then climb six floors to my parking space in the garage (the elevator is broken). So I just let it go.

Today the office manager let me know that my boss saw a mess in the pumping room and got very upset. There was dried milk on the table and pumping equipment out. I am sure it looked awful, and I am so humiliated. Yep — I left my pump, a boob flange, and my bag out on the table with the door open.

Of course I will not do this again, but should I tell my boss it was an anomalous occurrence? I don’t know how I will ever look at him again. He is older generation and so far I thought I was doing a good job of being discreet about having to pump at work. I am 100% sure he was grossed out. I don’t want to debate on whether or not he should have been grossed out. It was messy and had bodily fluids (can I crawl in a hole forever?) and things that go on my boobs on the table. Help!

You didn’t pee all over the storage room. You left a medical device there. It was an accident, one that won’t happen again. You don’t need to be this mortified!

I don’t think you need to address it with your boss unless it’s going to drive you mad if you don’t. But if you really want to, you can shoot him an email (to avoid the awkwardness that it sounds like you’d both feel if you talked face-to-face) and say, “Apologies for leaving the break room a mess — I had to leave unexpectedly, but it was an oversight and I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again.” That’s really it! Unless your boss is truly out there, he’s not likely to spend a long time stewing over this.

3. Staff gets ready to leave before the end of their shift

Am I wrong to be annoyed that my staff — who cover the front desk — have a tendency to go to the staff room and gather their things up 10-20 minutes before their shift ends?

We see our last client at 5 pm, but the working hours are 8:15 am to 5:15 pm (with an hour for lunch), in case a client is a few late or someone on their way out needs something, and to just wrap up and close their computers down and whatnot. I feel it isn’t the best presentation for the front to be “pretty much closed” at 5 pm when there’s still a client to get settled.

This expectation has been communicated and has been reiterated. If I ask why they’ve gone to get their things before 5:15, the answer is, “It’s not like I’m leaving yet, I’m just getting ready.” The last time I told them that I did not want them to get their things before clients are finished, having their things on the desk looks like the client is not welcome or is intruding, they just stuck it on the floor.

I don’t feel like it is an unreasonable expectation that my staff doesn’t look like they are running out the door when the last client comes in. But am I being overly critical? Does it matter as much as I feel it does? And if I’m right, what do I need to say to change this behavior?

It’s reasonable to want the last client of the day to feel welcomed and not as if they’re intruding on people who are trying to leave. I don’t know if your staff gathering up their things early is making people feel unwelcome, but if you think it is, you should indeed explain that and tell people not to do it.

I’m curious how firm and direct you’ve been about the expectation: have you been crystal clear (as in “I need you to wait until 5:15 to gather your things”) and they’re flagrantly ignoring that and doing it anyway? If so, you need to get firmer when you see it happening: “We’ve talked about this. I do not want you gathering your things before 5:15 because of the impression it gives clients. If you have a reason to do it earlier, let’s discuss that now so we can hash it out and both be on the same page, but otherwise I need you to follow this job requirement.” But, alternatively, is it possible you haven’t been that clear? If you’ve used softer language (like “I’d prefer you not pack up until the end of the day”), the next step is to be firmer and clearer (“you need to wait until 5:15 to gather your things”).

It’s also possible there’s some complicating factor here like they only have three minutes to catch a bus when their shift ends and if they miss it they’re stuck waiting an hour for the next one … in which case you could explore other solutions, like whether there’s a more discreet place they can store their stuff so it’s not right in clients’ faces. (In fact, you might do that anyway, but that would be particular impetus.)

4. Handling persistent pushy requests from a professor when I’ve already said no

I’m seeking advice on an ongoing issue with a retired elderly professor emeritus. I am an adult learner in a graduate program.

The professor regularly attends our peer teaching session and uses these sessions to advance his own work, including pressuring students to help write chapters for his self published books. He also has sent me numerous emails insisting that I participate as an author in his projects and sign release forms for teaching materials that I created for other purposes for him to use for his own projects. Despite my polite but firm refusals, his requests persist both via email and in person. Although he often says he “respects my decision,” the constant follow-up and pressure to get involved continue.

I’ve discussed this issue with colleagues and other professors, and some have advised me to simply stop responding to his emails, as he sends long, stream-of-consciousness messages filled with various demands, random thoughts, and requests. Fortunately the emails to me have mostly stopped for the time being. It seems that most people have just stopped replying to him altogether.

I am juggling multiple other commitments and have no desire to be involved in his projects, so I’m leaning toward not responding to his emails anymore if he does this again in future. However, I’m unsure if this is the best approach, as I don’t want to escalate the situation or create any further tension. Should I continue to engage politely but firmly, or would it be better to stop responding entirely?

Stop responding. You’ve told him no multiple times and the answer hasn’t changed. And since other people have stopped replying to him, if he has an issue with that he’ll need to take issue with the whole group, not just you, which gives you some degree of cover if that happens.

If he ever asks you in person why you haven’t been answering, you can say, “Oh, I’m sorry if I missed something — I’d already answered you about X and Y and didn’t see an additional question in there.”

Also, is anyone willing to tell him to knock it off, like another professor? Is it something you and other students can raise on course evaluations? It’s obnoxious behavior, made worse by the power dynamics in play.

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{ 135 comments }

{ 135 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Martin Blackwood*

    I’m a little confused about #3—you see your last client *starting* at 5, or *ending* at five, with some extra time for staff in case appointments run long? The way you said there is extra time at the end makes me think its ends at five, but the way you say ‘still a client to get settled’ makes me think it starts at five. Not sure it matters, but I think i get the staff reaction a little bit more if clients are supposed to be done by five…but if theyre getting stuff ready to leave before five, thats so early, i dont get that.

    I think its reasonable to say the front staff needs to keep their bags/jackets out of sight of clients. I think drawing the line at keeping those things out of sight is the way to go.

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    1. KateM*

      Yes, this wasn’t clear to me, either. I wondered if the visits are maybe supposed to last only 5 minutes, in which case there are extra 10 min?

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    2. SPB*

      Another issue is what the job requirements are. If they were told they work until 5:15, it makes sense they would prepare to leave by then. Maybe it’s about making sure they are paid for that extra bit of time and are aware that they are, or that they know to expect that when they’re hired.

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      1. Anononon*

        Agree.

        Perhaps it’s a broader question of, is packing up to leave part of work time or not?

        I can kind of understand feeling like 5:15 is the time you leave if that’s when your hours are up, rather than that’s the time you’re allowed to start getting ready to leave, but perhaps it’s the nature of this particular job that makes being present all the way until 5:15 necessary.

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        1. Chocolate Teapot*

          I would understand it as the very last client appointment of the day being at 5, then there should still be somebody at the reception desk when they leave.

          Totally understand about tight bus/train/tram connections.

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        2. Rapunzel Rider*

          I may be the outlier, but I have always considered packing up to leave not part of work time. My expectation is that I am clocked out so I can take as long/short of time as I need and am not milking the clock or not working on something I should be. It also means that if someone stops me in the middle of trying to get out the door, I can say I am not on the clock and can help them tomorrow, rather than having to delay my departure.

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      2. Dust Bunny*

        I don’t consider gathering my stuff to leave “work”, though. That’s personal. Closing up our warehouse space and shutting off lights is work, and I can’t do that until everyone is done using it so if that’s what’s causing me to run over time, that should be addressed. Putting my coat on and getting my lunch containers out of the fridge, though, is not part of the job.

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    3. Ron McDon*

      I agree the letter is a bit confusing about whether clients are arriving at 5 or leaving at 5, but I don’t think this affects the advice.

      I’ve always been of the opinion that if your hours are 8.15-5.15, you work until 5.15, then get your coat and bag and leave. I would never think I should be walking out the door at 5.15.

      The place I worked at before this had an employee who was supposed to finish at 5. She would go to the kitchen to wash up her mug at 4.45, shut down her computer, put her bag on the desk and stare out the window or chat until 5.00 then stand up and leave. Everybody else worked until 5, then shut down the PC, washed our mug etc. Our bosses told her she had to wait until 5pm to leave after she started walking out the door at 4.55, but had given up trying to stop her getting ready to leave early.

      We weren’t client facing, but sometimes people from other departments would come in and comment when they saw her sitting there with her PC turned off and her bag on the desk – it was obvious she was doing nothing!

      I’m thinking back through all the jobs I’ve had, and I can’t think of anyone else I’ve worked with who did this, so it must be pretty standard in my area of the UK that you work til your end time then get ready to leave.

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      1. bamcheeks*

        I’m in the UK, and this was the standard in jobs like retail and other customer service work. But it wasn’t in most of the office jobs I’ve had since 2010, where it was quite normal for people to arrive between 8.30-9am and the office was usually nearly empty by 5pm.

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      2. AcademiaNut*

        I figure starting up and shutting down your computer, putting away and getting out files and other work related tasks should count as work time, because they are work, not personal. Stuff like getting putting on your coat or going to the washroom leans more towards personal / not work time.

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        1. Agent Diane*

          I agree that packing away the work stuff is work, and therefore within the working time. That’s also how letters about people setting up for the day have been treated – if you need to do it to do your job, it’s on the clock and management should factor the time in. It seems obvious to me that the same applies to packing up.

          I do think it’s reasonable to ask them to start packing up after 5.05pm. Clients who are running later than that can’t really be snotty about people who are aware of the time.

          And get a good coat rack for the reception so your staff can have their things ready to go at 5.15pm without looking messy. Right now, it reads like you are nickel and diming people who are probably your least well-paid staff.

          (Aside: this is the second letter this week to start with “Am I wrong to think…” which is a phrasing which always winds me up. It’s a rhetorical device that is trying to make people agree that whatever follows is fine.)

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          1. Yes for coat rack*

            “And get a good coat rack for the reception so your staff can have their things ready to go at 5.15pm without looking messy.”

            That was my thought too. It’s such a simple solution: everything looks tidy and welcoming, and staff can get out on time.

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            1. Sloanicota*

              Right! OP acknowledges they have a slightly unusual and probably inconvenient requirement at their business. Why wouldn’t you want to do what you can to minimize the impact of that requirement on your least-paid staff?

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          2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            Your aside, yes! I also twitch at “Am I the only one who —“ because no, I can pretty much guarantee you are not.

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            2. Aerin*

              It’s such a weird formulation! It’s like you’re trying to set yourself up to indeed be the only one with a completely unique outlier experience or opinion, in which case it’s probably extremely yikes.

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          3. Totally Minnie*

            Right now, it reads like you are nickel and diming people who are probably your least well-paid staff.

            This, right here. Front desk jobs tend to be both the least well paid and the most highly restricted jobs in an organization. At my last front desk job, we got held to so many standards that back office staff didn’t have to deal with, from whether we were allowed to have water with us at the desk to how often we could use the bathroom to our start and end times. I don’t think our back office manager worked a full 80 hour pay period the entire time I worked there and she never got talked to about it, but front desk staff would get points toward discipline for being 2-3 minutes late. It was so entirely frustrating.

            I can’t say for certain whether the difference is that start at OP’s office, but they should be aware that a front desk job has pain points that a back office job doesn’t, and staff aren’t even paid well enough that those pain points are worth it.

            How bad would it be, really, to make the end of the work day a little bit easier for those staff?

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            2. Elizabeth West*

              This, especially if they have a ride waiting on them, need to negotiate a ton of traffic to get home, or have to catch a train or bus.

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          4. Aerin*

            It makes me wonder how high-maintenance these clients usually are? Because if I walked in three minutes before closing because *I* was running late, I’d just be glad that anyone was there at all, and wouldn’t mind if they were clearly ready to bounce. If they can do what I need of them, they’ve done their job. I don’t expect them to act like their whole existence revolves around me.

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        2. SarahKay*

          I agree with that split of work / non-work tasks. Not that I work in a time-sensitive role any more, but when I did, I counted the start of my day as the point when I sat down at my desk and pressed the on button for my computer, and the end of the day as when I put away my files and turned off the computer.
          Coats, hats, scarves, gloves, winter boots (why yes, the weather here is in the middle of a cold snap) I would expect to do in my own time.

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          1. doreen*

            I agree with that split – but I also wonder what is taking them 10-20 minutes. Or does it take them a minute or two to get their things and they are just doing it 10-20 minutes before the end of the day>

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            1. Jackalope*

              I normally take 20 min or so to get out the door since I commute by bike and I have to get all of my bike gear on; this time of year especially it takes forever to get all of the winter stuff on! That being said, my normal procedure is to start with the bike gear after I’m logged off, except on the rare occasion (every few months or so) that I have, say, a doctor’s appt right after work and need to skedaddle.

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        3. Sloanicota*

          I agree. Obviously employers would love it if all employees were still working away at 4:59, and then the turning off / washing mugs / gathering coats stuff was all on the employee’s dime – meaning they’re actually leaving the office at 5:15. If you multiply that by enough employees that’s quite a tidy amount of extra time the company is getting, and I bet if the phone rings during that time someone will answer it, too, or if the boss comes down with a last minute request there’s people on site to deal with it. Nice for them! But I don’t think it’s *wrong* for an employee to arrange it so they’re walking out the door at 5:01. I guess they just need to be a bit less obvious about it than some of these examples.

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      3. Baunilha*

        In every job I had, even the client-facing ones, it was a matter of reading the room and having common sense: if things were slow, it was ok for people to start getting ready to leave a bit early, so you’re out of the door as soon as your time is up. But even then, we were available if something came up last minute.

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      4. Dust Bunny*

        Same. I can start shutting stuff down and packing up before my hours end at 4:30 but not if we still have patrons. If we still have patrons I either stay later and make up the time tomorrow or, more often, hand them off to someone whose hours end later (we close at 5:00 but have staggered hours; patrons do have to leave by 5:00, though). But putting on my coat, etc., is personal, not work and can wait until I’m actually off.

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    4. Rosacolleti*

      Does it matter tho? They are contracted to work til 5:15, not walk out the door with coats and hats on at 5:15

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      1. Myrin*

        Yeah, I agree that it isn’t 100% clear from the letter but what is clear is that the working hours are until 5:15, which doesn’t change even if clients are “supposed to be done by five”.

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      2. Happy meal with extra happy*

        Yeah, I agree. A lot of jobs can have flexibility about start/end times, but generally reception isn’t one of them, and I don’t think it’s egregious to expect people to be working their full shift.

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        1. Cmdrshprd*

          But they are working their full shift, they just get their stuff ready to leave, and then go back to the desk, is how I understood it. Unless there are two of them at all times it is unreasonable to expect the desk to be staffed 100% of the time. I’ve been to offices that had people on break/lunch and I just called or rang a bell.

          I think saying doing have your coat on and bag in hand/visible is understandable, but saying you can’t grab anything until 515pm is unreasonable.

          Let them get their stuff just keep it out of sight.

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    5. DJ Abbott*

      I am a front desk person. There is no place to hang my coat near my desk. I have thought about asking for a coat rack, but there’s no place to put it.
      If I leave five or 10 minutes after my shift, I get home 15 to 30 minutes later. I need to walk out the door at 4:30 to catch my train, so I bring my coat to the front early. I would be very unhappy if I was told I couldn’t do this.
      If management wants staff’s coats and bags out of sight at all times, they need to provide a convenient place to put them.

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    6. Nightengale*

      From my perspective as a clinician working in an office setting – I interpreted it as “ending at 5” and the “getting settled” would be front staff checking the person out, making a follow-up appointment kinds of stuff. Ideally there is still a front person available to do that as the last person seen is leaving for the day. (In my real world, our front staff end at 4:30 and I have one day a week when my last patient finishes at 4:45 so we just. . . have to either try to reach them by phone to make a follow-up or hope they call us to schedule)

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    7. Nameo*

      I agree, keeping bags out of sight solves LW’s stated problem and lets front desk staff walk out the door on time. However, the LW says “The last time I told them that I did not want them to get their things before clients are finished […] they just stuck it on the floor.”
      So I get the sense that LW doesn’t think of this as a solution.

      I think LW is, in fact, “being overly critical,” as she asks in the letter. If employees have greeted and checked in the last client ….just let them get their stuff before 5:15, and keep it under the desk in case an exiting client needs something.
      The time from 5 to 5:15 seems like it it exists solely to greet late clients or to help an exiting client, so most days employees are not doing anything with this time besides waiting anyway.

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      1. Blue Pen*

        Yes, I agree. If keeping their things on the floor is an amiable solution between both parties, then I would also suggest supplying them with a bin of some kind so it keeps everything tidy and off the ground.

        If your employees are still checking your clients in according to your business needs, and their things are out of sight so as not to give any kind of intrusive impression, then I don’t quite see what the issue is.

        And taking a step back, if they’re gathering their things a few minutes early, as well, I also have to believe there’s something that’s making them do that — have they been burned in the past? Are clients usually on time or is lateness frequent? Do they need to run to catch a bus or train? If it were in fact so simple to pick up their coat and bag on the way out the door, why aren’t they doing that?

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  2. AnotherLibrarian*

    #4: As someone whose worked in higher education for many years, I can promise everyone knows who this person is and know what a problem he is. Likely, folks have already attempted to get him to knock it off. Since professor emeriti don’t actually answer to anyone, there’s often very little anyone can do about them. He’s already retired, after all. Unless he’s on your PhD committee or has sway with the committee or something, just stop responding. You’re a student and you owe him nothing, if you’re not his student. Be polite when you engage in person, but please please don’t let him occupy any more of your headspace.

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    1. Richard Hershberger*

      This. Pressuring grad student to write chapters for his self-published books? This guy is well past his use-by date, and everyone but he (and possibly even he) knows it.

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      1. Cordelia*

        yes if he was still active in the field and a prestigious academic it would be helpful for you to co-publish with, he wouldn’t need to be pressuring grad students or self-publishing his work, he would still have other academics to work with. Ignore him. If you’re the only one in the group who keeps responding, he will keep pressuring you. Perhaps speak to the group and make an agreement that none of you will respond, and then make sure your professors know this and back you up.

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        1. NotBatman*

          Also: there’s no benefit to OP if they do perform all that extra (unpaid) work. It’s not a peer-reviewed publication, it’s not a fruitful collaboration, and it’s not even something they can learn by doing. Block the guy’s email address, and on the extremely slim chance he asks you about it, say you’ve been having problems with your spam filter.

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    2. StarTrek Nutcase*

      IME professors emeritus come in only two type. One is typically not seen outside events & interacts mostly with faculty. The other is a full-on PITA who pushes boundaries and expects more of students & staff than before retiring (even if not a PITA before). Well, there’s actually a subtype: the PITA + hoarder. As staff, with type 2, I quickly learned to ignore requests if possible and if not, comply VERY slowly & incompetently & use plausible deniability.

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      1. Slippers*

        The hoarding tendencies of professors emeritus could be its own documentary. We have an office space shortage in our building, which is exacerbated by the fact that professors who are dead or close to dead have offices that their families can’t/won’t clean out and our staff is too afraid to do it. I walked into one last year and the first thing I see is stacks and stacks of papers on a cart, the top of which is a grant application from 1987. The radio was on his office. He hadn’t been in the office in over two years. I went over and turned it off and the admin audibly gasped, concerned she was somehow going to be in trouble for this.

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        1. MCL*

          I’m at a large state university and those days are coming to a closed. We are absolutely strapped for office space and unless that emeritus prof is doing something actively in our department they don’t get an office. Also if they have an appointment in our department but are dean-ing in another building; nobody gets two offices any more. Office Realpolitik.

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    3. Harriet Vane*

      This. I read the letter expecting to hear that this guy still had some power and … he just doesn’t. He’s an old crank who needs to get a hobby. Ignore him.

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    4. Honoria Lucasta*

      It occurs for me to wonder, too, if this emeritus faculty member is emailing the letter writer because she keeps responding when nobody else even replies to his emails anymore. If LW has talked to other people who say they’ve just stopped replying, I think it’s perfectly fair for her to join their ranks.

      I’ve known a few of these in my time in academia, and often they’re very quirky and probably a little lonely now that they’ve retired and 50 years in the academy has eroded all sense of normal human boundaries (which would explain the rambly emails… I once had to work with a retired Professor whose emails honestly came across like found poetry, but not in a good way. )

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  3. Sylvie*

    For #2, I’m a little horrified that the “pumping room” is a storage area with no lock that apparently everyone has access to. And the letter writer has to climb SIX FLIGHTS of stairs to get to/from the office? The company should be embarrassed, not the letter writer

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    1. bamcheeks*

      Yes, I was thinking that whilst of course IDEALLY you would always pack up and tidy away, this is kind of on the company for giving you such a crap room. If this was a dedicated pumping space, you’d no doubt still feel embarrassed that you hadn’t tidied, but you wouldn’t feel the same shame at having Left Evidence That Your Boobs Exist. It sounds like this room just barely covers their legal responsibilities with no real thought for your comfort. Resolve to be a little more assertive about apologising and excusing yourself from an overrunning meeting in the future, but put the shame down!

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      1. Let go!*

        “Left Evidence That Your Boobs Exist”

        Well said. Three letter made me feel really bad for OP because of the amount of shame that was in there. Even if the comparison is not ideal – would OP feel the same way if they had left their desk untidied with coffee stains and a dirty cup out there? It’s not ideal, but this happens to everybody at some point too.

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        1. ecnaseener*

          I don’t believe a lock is legally required, at least at the federal level. The DOL’s fact sheet on it (#73a) has examples of acceptable setups including “Provide a space with a locking door or use of a sign that designates when the space is in use and off limits to others” (emphasis mine).

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    2. Yvette*

      LW may want to look into what is legally required for a pumping station in her state. What she has may not be it.

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    3. Dog momma*

      And it sounds like she left for a kid emergency, which should be taken into account, since she didn’t pack up and leave..just flew out the door

      Reply ↓
      1. Gray Lady*

        I think it wasn’t an emergency, but that her meeting ran late and she needed to get her from daycare before end of day. It was a different child whose needs made her stay home the next day.

        Of course I would still be understanding about that but it wasn’t the same sort of emergency.

        Reply ↓
    5. CityMouse*

      As a former pumper add me to being horrified.

      The idea that flanges must be hidden because they’re cone shaped is ridiculous. I used to dry mine in a rack in my office.

      Reply ↓
    6. 2 Cents*

      Agreed. Your office is barely (and maybe not even) meeting the needs of a pumping mother. Does this door have a lock and a way to indicate no one should barge in? Is there a chair or are you stacking water bottle packs for a seat? Really, “a mess” implies a bear got loose, not that you forgot your equipment in a moment of panic.

      Reply ↓
      1. Steph the Editor*

        Just wanted to offer support for letter writer #2. I have been in the crappy, barely adequate pumping room and felt the shame while washing equipment in the bathroom. Please be kind to yourself. You did not leave a mess. There is no need for shame. I’m not sure you need to apologize. I’m impressed you can produce milk in a space that is barely private. You are doing a heroine’s job. Give yourself a hug.

        Reply ↓
    7. No Tribble At All*

      THISSSSSS. I pumped in a tiny room with a minifridge and a chair, and I got them to expense a TV tray so I’d have a place to put my pump. But it LOCKED. And that’s way better than a storage room with no way to indicate it’s in use!! If your boss is upset at seeing your pump, maybe he should….. give you a room that he doesn’t need to go into… to pump!! Why did your boss even need to go in there?

      It’s impossible to pump without ever spilling milk anywhere. You’re doing important work, you’re doing great. Please don’t let this occupy any more of your thoughts unless you want to use it as an example of you needing a better room. It is a medical need for your baby.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lego girl*

        I get milk on everything somehow even when trying to not. I don’t know where it comes from! I also pump in a storage room and it sucks (and this room is going to be converted back to an office but retain the storage cabinets… not a great space).

        Reply ↓
  4. Artemesia*

    Wow #1. when your job is critical to your families survival you don’t talk yourself into taking a job with poor pay, poor benefits and which won’t accept your WFH requirement and is 2.5 hours away. You are thinking about something that could massively upend your life and there is no guarantee you would be able to find another job to recover from this. This has red flag flying. Keep looking and stay where you have a good thing until you find something as good.

    Reply ↓
    1. Absolutely*

      Absolutely. And even if OP could convince the CEO to be allowed to work from home, this is no environment to thrive. The organisation its not wired that way, starting with meeting culture to information transfer. OP is likely to miss out things (because everybody else is used to discuss things quickly in person) or annoy people at some point (there always needs to be extra effort because OP can only participate online).
      That would be ok if it was a short-term employment, but not as a next career step.

      Reply ↓
      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        The last line of the letter was rather alarming. I don’t think this is the right position to move to.

        Reply ↓
      2. DJ Abbott*

        It’s not realistic to expect the company to change its culture or work mode to accommodate one person. If the OP could convince the CEO to do that, the CEO would change their mind soon, and OP would be stuck.
        OP needs to look at what’s reasonable to expect on the long-term from the company and not try to bend the company to meet their expectations, because that won’t work.

        Reply ↓
      3. Antilles*

        Indeed. Especially when OP is brand new to the team, has no idea about company protocols, little/no familiarity with the team, etc. A company whose CEO is dead-set against WFH and with a flood of Glassdoor reviews about how the company refuses WFH is not one which is going to be able to successfully integrate a new hire remotely.

        Reply ↓
    2. Spooz*

      I’m baffled by this letter as it doesn’t sound like the OP could take this job anyway, even if it were fully remote.

      It’s market low pay with high health insurance, which makes it sound an awful lot like they will be taking home less money than they currently are. And they’re currently living paycheque to paycheque.

      So… in what world is this going to add up? It sounds like the fast train to debt and misery.

      Reply ↓
      1. Scarlet2*

        Yeah, I have no idea why LW wants to take that job. It sounds like their current situation is generally OK and they just feel it’s “time to move on”. Why leave for a job that only seems to have downsides? The situation would be different if they had been laid off or if their current job situation was unbearable and they needed to find a new job asap.
        But in this case, I really don’t understand why they try so hard to make this work when it looks like such a bad fit to their situation.

        Reply ↓
      2. Sparkle*

        I wondered if LW has a personal timeline for their career and per that schedule it’s time to move on. Otherwise, I saw nothing in the job offer that was worth considering.

        Reply ↓
      1. OP1*

        Yvette you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I have felt like I “need” to take this job. While market-low, the salary is still a bit higher than mine right now, and my health insurance premiums are also high and went up for 2025. I have casually looked for jobs for the past two years and this is the only one that I’ve been in the negotiations stage with that offers me a competitive salary. I live in a HCOL area in a generally LCOL state and have other high expenses that traveled with me when I relocated here. Local jobs simply do not pay. Obviously, roles designed as remote with large organizations are extremely, extremely competitive. It’s almost like I feel like I need to make this job work because I don’t know when another will come around.

        My current job has a lot of perks but the environment is becoming untenably toxic.

        Reply ↓
        1. Spooz*

          If you are going to have to travel into the office ever, I would be very very very careful to run the numbers on that and make sure it won’t eat up the extra pay.

          Reply ↓
        2. Falling Diphthong*

          This sounds like a path out that will soon peter away into nothing–you need remote and the company is hostile to remote, and so very unlikely to keep to any agreements about being fully remote. And as Spooz says, if this turns into a 5 hour commute more than twice a year, that can turn into a loss both financially and in terms of what you can handle without coming apart.

          Reply ↓
        3. Sparkle*

          Toxic it difficult to navigate, but consider the bigger picture. Higher salary could easily be eaten up by transportation costs and travel time. WFH could be revoked entirely with no recourse.

          Reply ↓
        4. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          While your current job is becoming untenably toxic, the proposed job does not work for you. If they are already talking relocation expenses WFH is not a realistic option. If WFH is a deal breaker for you, don’t waffle on it. You will only make yourself miserable trying to shoehorn yourself into a job that is not the right fit for you.

          Keep looking. Not just casually, really ramp up the search.

          Reply ↓
    4. 653-CXK*

      LW#1: If your CEO is fully adamant against working from home, take that as a sign that there also other things that they’re adamant about, and that even with an interview to try to change their mind, it won’t.

      This sounds a lot like gumption, and you cannot make this work, I’m afraid. Your best bet is to withdraw from the CEO’s interview and find a place that offers much clearer expectations, does offer fully remote work, and has much better pay so you and your husband don’t live from paycheck to paycheck.

      Reply ↓
      1. Spooz*

        I don’t think the LW necessarily needs to withdraw from the interview, or not bring up the subject of remote work. But I think she needs to assume that this job probably won’t work out on that front unless she gets some new, surprising, credible information. Which might come out in the CEO interview! But… might not. And vague promises or “let’s try it” should not be regarded as trustworthy.

        Still, I don’t see any harm in going to the interview, laying out her situation clearly
        ONCE and asking if it would work for the company to have her 100% remote. Saying, “My current job is 100% remote, and remote work is very important to me. If I were required to come into the office, I would have to seriously consider how feasible that would be for me given where I live. I understand if 100% remote is not something your company can offer, but I’d also like to explore whether there is a way we could make it work for both of us.”

        That’s explaining it from her perspective but not trying to actively PERSUADE the company, which I do think is a hiding to nothing. But it would be a kindness to the company to make it clear how much remote work is important to her in case they can do something on their end. But if they say no? Then you do have to leave it there and not push it.

        Reply ↓
    5. Sloanicota*

      Look, I’ve been there when you just need to Leave Your Job now haha. I agree, this new job doesn’t seem like a fit. But I can’t pretend it’s quick and easy to get a great new job. I could understand if OP decided to take it for now and keep job searching just in case. Sometimes you’ve got to go!

      Reply ↓
      1. Jackalope*

        I hear that, but if the OP takes the job and then either loses it because the CEO tells her remote work doesn’t cut it, or gets told she has to be in-person and is stuck with a 5 hr round-trip commute every day, then she and her family are going to be in a MUCH worse place.

        Reply ↓
    6. CityMouse*

      There are so many red flags – they’re paying low end with high premiums, they’re promising remote work but then hemming and having about it. This is not good. Do not take this job.

      Reply ↓
    7. Elizabeth West*

      Agreed. This is not a reasonable fit for OP’s needs and I would bet they’d end up leaving sooner rather than later.

      Reply ↓
  5. bamcheeks*

    LW5, the key word here is EMERITUS— this is a retired professor with no formal power, and if he’s pressuring grad students to contribute to self-published books, it is unlikely that he holds a huge amount of soft power either. (If he was still seriously active as a researcher in the field, he would be working with other academics.)

    This is someone you owe normal amounts of good manners too, but he is not a professional superior who you have to keep sweet because he has power over your hiring/firing/income. It’s fine to ignore his emails and and say, “oh how interesting, no I wouldn’t be able to but good luck!” in person.

    Reply ↓
    1. Upside down Question Mark*

      So much this. the problem with emeritus profs in some cases is they aren’t making enough pension and are pushed to keep publishing to try and make a bit of extra cash (very country dependant, clearly). Or it could simply be a retiree who just can’t let go, especially when his research was his whole identity. Unless he’s critical for a reference, board member nomination or the like, don’t feel bad about letting it go. The man needs a personal life to turn to.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        I had to ruefully smile at the person so committed to delegating that even in retirement they are looking for someone to delegate their voluntary self-published chapters to. LOL. I knew a lot of professors who had no involvement whatsoever in that research “they” were publishing.

        Reply ↓
        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          Omg. He’s creating work and then conscripting people to do it. This could would be funny as heck as a movie starring Peter Sellers.

          Reply ↓
  6. Clementine*

    For #1, it’s so obvious that a few days per month are soon going to morph into numerous required visits per month. I don’t think a 2.5-hour commute each way is sustainable for most people, even if it only is 1/3 or 1/2 the workdays.

    What isn’t clear is how urgent it is to leave the current job, and if there is any possibility of other prospects. This situation needs a major rethink.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jackalope*

      In addition to the time issue, which I agree is big, the cost of commuting would seriously eat into the salary increase (the OP mentioned in a comment above that the salary is market-low but a bit higher than her current salary).

      Reply ↓
      1. Elizabeth West*

        This is exactly what happened to me with health insurance. NewJob chose to go with the absolute worst company on Earth for that (you know the one), and it’s more expensive than what I had previously. Luckily, I got assistance that helps with my premiums.

        Reply ↓
  7. Palmer*

    #3 strikes me as being a minute counter.

    There is downtime between clients in most industries, and spending that time to get ready is reasonable, it is a task that needs to be done for workers to wrap up their day, they need to do that because of work. If they have to spend time after they clocked out to get their things together, that’s just a business trying to steal their time and is wage theft.

    Also, LW didn’t provide any complaints that the clients don’t feel welcomed, just their perception which seems in a sort of bad faith argument.
    If there is an issue with the business hours, the business should expand those hours, consider winding down who is up front on an alternating basis, or provide better storage locations for folks who are packed up.

    No mention of industry also leaves a question of how long clients take to handle. If it’s a long period, there needs to be a better organization, if it’s 5 minutes, then the end of the days are probably slow, it’s more motivating to let some workers get finished early.

    Overall it feels penny wise pound foolish. By micromanaging worker’s clocks that will discourage them from going above and beyond. That harms a business far more than a few ‘Oh, looks like its close to closing time’ perceptions from customers

    Reply ↓
    2. Cordelia*

      yes if I was a client arriving for the last appointment of the day, I’d want someone on reception to be there to let me in etc. But I wouldn’t mind if then they started getting ready to go, it would be obvious to me that it was the end of their working day – especially if I had showed up late. It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest to see people packing up their bags and getting ready to leave, I recognise that receptionists are people and have lives too

      Reply ↓
    3. Chas*

      Agreed. If I walked in for an appointment and saw the receptionists getting ready to leave, I’d just be glad that they’d stayed open late enough for me to get there! (Assuming they did stop packing up long enough to deal with me, that is.)

      It reminds me of times when I’ve gone into Costa coffee for a hot chocolate right before their closing time- half the tables were already closed off with the chairs on top of them (because they’d already been cleaned for the night) and the staff were being very clear that I’d have to leave in X number of minutes so they could close. This did not affect my view of the coffee shop at all, and actually made me feel less bad for the staff than I would have if I’d walked in to find an empty room of tables that they would have then had to spend extra time cleaning after the shop closing time ended.

      Reply ↓
    4. Anon for This*

      Not sure I agree. I think the issue is not really the coats, etc., but they are not working the last 20 minutes of the shift – and I would bet the time they stop working has slowly increased. The coats are just the outward sign. If the issue really is the coats, agree that the LW is the problem, but I’ve worked with people like those described – “I’m just getting my coat so I’ll be ready”, but they’ve also logged off the computer, put everything away, and play on their phone the last half hour of the day.

      Reply ↓
    5. PurpleCattledog*

      I think it really depends on what the business does. If these are stock standard appointments that are no big deal to the client I couldn’t see anyone care that staff are packing up to leave at the end of the day as they’re arriving so long as they are looked after.

      If clients are likely to be really stressed/upset eg a funeral home, I think it’s different. If the place is high end then they definitely need to be more polished.

      Having staff somewhere to keep jackets and bags out of site would solve the problem. But if stuff does need to be kept in a locker room nearby, it’s not unreasonable to require staff to go collect their things at clock off time. But only minute count if you have a genuine need.

      Reply ↓
    6. Blue Pen*

      Yes, thank you for saying this. I agree. And I don’t know if it’s fair to say because I have no idea what industry this is, but seeing clients that late in the day is something I’m not at all used to. And because I’m not used to it, I would have zero issue or qualms with seeing a receptionist getting ready to leave for the day—I wouldn’t blink an eye, and I would, in fact, expect to see that (if I even saw anyone there at all).

      At my PT office, the front desk crew tends to stick around until 5:30 pm or so, but they’re not personally checking people in at that point. Even though they’re there, they’re processing paperwork and clearing the phone system and putting things away and whatnot. Any clients with later appointments are reverted to a virtual check-in station at the side.

      Reply ↓
  8. Carrie*

    For the remote-work LW, I was in a similar situation a few years back. My ‘remote’ job required at least 4 days a month in-office and it was a 5-hour round trip by car (longer and more stressful by bus/train). I was tired and miserable, unproductive during the office days due to being exhausted from the journey in and dreading the trip home, less productive the day following due to residual exhaustion; all I can say is don’t do it!

    Reply ↓
    1. Tiger Snake*

      I think this is where there’s different expectations about what WFH means too. LW1 used both terms interchangeably, but to me, WFH and remote are not synonymous.

      If I have WFH arrangement, then I still expect to live close enough to the office that I can come in if necessary. And I expect that if something happens so that WFH isn’t going to work (power outage for example), then I am able to come into the office to keep working that day without preplanning. Ergo, I would expect that a WFH arrangement still means I need to live in the same city, where as an explicit agreement to work remotely does not.

      I know that many businsses, including several Fortune 500 companies and large government entities, use that model. But dozens of people here will also comment that their business does not. And there will also be many more who’s companies technically hold that model, but have developed a culture with more leeway. There is no universally understand agreement about how WFH conditions work, which is why trying to get this as part of your agreement as a new hire is so tricky.

      Reply ↓
      1. OP1*

        These are good points. In this situation, a parallel job in the same department is being advertised as “fully remote.” My would-be boss actually thought I still lived elsewhere when she offered me the role and did not know I was semi-local.

        And she framed it as two-three days in office per month but with mileage and hotel provided. It would be one trip per month. Before she learned where I lived she said they’d pay me to “fly down and stay over”.

        Reply ↓
  9. cncx*

    Yeah, we need more information for number 3. Like AAM said, is there a bus or train that needs catching? More importantly, how are these people being compensated: does their day’s compensation end at 5:15? Do they get paid for the time to pack up? Is there otherwise hard and fast minute counting rules about breaks and lunch? Because if I am only getting paid until 5:15, I am out the door at 5:15. If I am getting nickled and dimed on my lunch break, I am also out the door at 5:15. If, like in a previous employer, I am getting ridden to bill my hours down to the minute, I am also not staying past 5:15 because that is more minutes I “can’t bill.” This job had hotdesking. I couldn’t clock in until my computer was set up. Depending on windows updates and the like, I was already giving the company ten to fifteen minutes in the morning.

    Reply ↓
    1. gyratory_circus*

      I’m in complete agreement. And because of stuff like the computer updates you mentioned, my employer cut the guesswork out of when work actually begins and put into writing that logging in/starting your computer is part of your job and shouldn’t be started until your work time begins. I work remotely and we frequently have server issues with our virtual desktops and if takes me 10 or 15 minutes for it to let me connect then that’s a work issue and I’m going to get paid for that time.

      And same goes for the end of the day – logging off and shutting down is part of our job and should be completed by the time we log off. I commuted via metro in DC for the better part of a decade so I never stayed a second longer than I absolutely had to because if I missed my shuttle to the metro, or a train, it could double my commute.

      Reply ↓
  10. Spooz*

    #2: You can recover from this! Truly! Send ONE email stating that you realise you left the room in a mess, explaining that something urgent came up that meant you weren’t able to tidy up as you usually would, you are sorry that this happened, and you don’t anticipate it happening again.

    You don’t need to make a huge apology but it sounds like it would make you feel better.

    Then scrub it from your mind and skip off into the sunset!

    Reply ↓
    1. 2 Cents*

      Also, I wouldn’t use the word “mess.” She left her MEDICAL equipment there in a moment of disarray, which is very unlike her (I’m sure).

      Is OP responsible for bringing her own wipes to clean said table? Or is there a sink in the storage room? She sounds like she’s stuffed in the janitor’s closet, which I know isn’t some place I’d like to eat my lunch.

      Reply ↓
  11. FashionablyEvil*

    #2–I’d strongly encourage you to reframe this like you left your lunch dishes in the break room overnight. Is it somewhat inconsiderate? Yes. Is it mortifying and catastrophic? Definitely not.

    Reply ↓
  12. Audrey Puffins*

    LW2, I once forgot to wrap and bin a used sanitary towel and just left it sitting on the side in the workplace bathroom, proudly displaying its handiwork. Absolutely mortifying, but a quick apology and tidy-up sorted the immediate issue, and we all just moved on. I’m sure most people will have regretted leaving a mess in a workplace when they didn’t intend to, we’re all just human! :)

    Reply ↓
  13. mbs001*

    LW3 – Frankly, as a manager, it’s frustrating to see employees come in to log in quickly (to start their pay clock) and then go to the break room to make their coffee, heat up their breakfast and take 30 minutes doing that in the morning. When they’re supposed to be working. Same in the afternoon. I’ve had to speak with people all ready to leave 15 minutes early and not working up to their departure time. If OPs workers are supposed to work until 5:15pm, then they should be working until then. Not packing up 15 minutes early. Aside from the optics for their clients, the company is paying them to work until that time.

    Reply ↓
    1. old job post mortem*

      Hmmm….what is your turnover rate like?

      Are your workers hitting their metrics? Are the things that are supposed to be getting done actually getting done? If that’s the case, I wouldn’t worry about what people are doing with their time.

      Reply ↓
    2. Blue Pen*

      But is there enough work to do from your employees’ start time and end time? And more importantly, is the work getting done and in at least acceptable condition? I get that it might be annoying to see someone take 30 minutes to socialize and get settled in, but this is nothing new in modern office life.

      Reply ↓
    3. Totally Minnie*

      Front desk jobs are a little different, though. The primary function of a front desk job is to communicate with customers. Workers will usually have a handful of other tasks that they do, like restocking brochures and tidying the reception area, but those tasks are not going to take a considerable amount of time, so most of their on the clock time will be spent either helping a customer or waiting for there to be customers that need help.

      If it’s the end of the day and you’ve already checked in the last customer and done your tidying and restocking, there’s no work left for you to do. I can totally see why the LW’s staff would grab their things during that kind of a lull, because at that point, their only official work task is “be in the building until 5:15.”

      Reply ↓
  14. JobLongevity*

    LW1, also consider that any job can go away at any time, including your current job. Layoffs happen all the time. I would take steps to shore up your current situation as much as possible too (consider if there are ways to build more of a cushion and make those changes if you can).

    Good luck!

    Reply ↓
    1. OP1*

      That’s so true. My current job is expanding and retains even terrible employees, so it’s never been a super present worry but definitely something to be aware of.

      My husband lost his business during COVID and it’s been a financial struggle to get back to where we were since then. The stress weighs on me daily.

      Reply ↓
  15. Suzy’s 5:00 Client*

    I feel like the 5:15 issue depends on the job and how it works. Do clients have appointments, or is there some expectation of which employee is taking the client(s) at the end of the day? What are the people without clients from 5 to 5:15 supposed to be doing?

    If Suzy is expecting a 5:00 client, she shouldn’t grab her stuff and have it sitting there. But if Johnny, Jimmy and Pam don’t have clients and are being made to sit there with nothing to do until 5:15 so Suzy’s client doesn’t feel like oh, they’re closing (which they are) then those three should be able to go back and grab their stuff when Suzy and her client are settled. It’s on Suzy at that point to ensure the client feels welcome. Making other people sit around for optics when the only thing they have left to do is get ready and leave is going to annoy everyone.

    Give Johnny, Jimmy and Pam real work to do for that 15 minutes or let them grab their stuff.

    Reply ↓
    1. Buffy the Redundancy Slayer*

      Agreed. There is a difference between sitting at a desk twiddling your thumbs and waiting and being visible moving around in the office space, but still easily available to do whatever “work” needs to be done. An earlier post suggested a nickel & dime mindset here and I agree. Is this manager also upset if the reception person gets up to send a fax or go to the bathroom? My guess is that is there is work to be done, it is being done. But most reception jobs have gaps and it sounds like OP is more concerned about the performative appearance of work rather than it actually being done when needed.

      Reply ↓
      1. Suzy’s 5:00 Client*

        I realize now I misread and the employees in question are working reception. That’s a little different since greeting clients is their job. But I also think if the last client is settled and their actual work is done, let them do their thing. If there is more work to do, like a check-out process when the last client is done, I agree that they should leave their coats in the back.

        It all comes down to, is there work to do or are they sitting there for optics?

        Reply ↓
    2. Colette*

      I’m thinking it’s more like a medical office – multiple front desk staff greeting clients who deal with multiple service providers – so Pam, Phylis, and Kevin are at the front desk welcoming clients are there to meet with Michael, Angela, Dwight, or Kelly.

      Since the last appointment is at 5, I’m not clear on what Pam, Phylis, and Kevin are supposed to be doing from 5 – 5:15. If a client is wait, they should be waiting, but if the last client is with their provider, does it matter if they start tidying up? Maybe it does, but the question is a vague enough that I’m not sure. (And are the appointments 15 minutes? If so, what happens if the client gets there at 5:05 – do the front desk staff have to wait?)

      I’ve had appointments where the front desk staff will leave while I’m in there so they ask if I can pay beforehand; it’s not a big deal from a client perspective.

      But maybe it is a big deal in the OP’s situation! So it comes down to what the real impact is on the clients and employees.

      Reply ↓
  16. A Book about Metals*

    I’m not sure of the answer to #3, but how long does it really take to “pack up” ? When I was working in the office I’d simply grab my coat, put a couple things in my backpack and head out.. Just took a minute or so

    Reply ↓
    1. JustKnope*

      Agree. It feels a little crazy-making to see people referring to not letting employees pack up on the clock as “wage theft.” Grabbing your coat and getting ready to walk out the door are not work tasks.

      Reply ↓
    2. 2 Cents*

      Ah, then you didn’t have my company-provided computer that I needed to transport back and forth due to hot desking that could take upwards of 15 minutes to shut down.

      Reply ↓
    3. Off the clock*

      Yes, I had the same question. I had a former boss who was irritated when I left at 5:00 instead of performatively waiting until 5:15 or so.

      I was a receptionist, paid minimum wage, and there to answer phones and talk to customers. I’d been there for nine hours and wanted to go home! (Working through lunch was the general expectation for no discernable reason.) I wasn’t doing anything that required much concentration after about 4:30 because I was tired. By 5:00, I’d already asked the boss if he needed anything, wrapped up email, and made a to-do list for the next day.

      We did not have customers after 4:00, the phones automatically rolled over to the answering service, and my purse and coat were stored under my desk. “Getting ready to leave” took literally 30 seconds, and if I got out the door quickly, it cut my commute time down significantly. It achieved nothing if I waited around just to look busy.

      I absolutely had to be there, clocked in and working by 7:59am. 5pm was my time again.

      Reply ↓
    4. Dinwar*

      It’s highly variable. I’ve done the “Grab coat, get out the door” thing. I’ve also had to spend 20 minutes verifying that all my project-related documents were under lock and key, that the computer is turned off, that my access card has been turned in and I’m officially signed out, etc–a process that could take between 10 and 20 minutes, depending on how busy certain folks I had to check in with were. I’ve also worked in field offices where it was common to spend 30 minutes on an informal end-of-day debriefing.

      If you have an assigned desk it takes less time to wrap up–it’s your desk, you can leave stuff there. If you don’t, it takes longer–you need to make it clean for the next person. If your job requires equipment, cleaning, or other activities it can add time to it. If there are any sort of sensitive documents it can take a lot longer, depending on the documents.

      So basically, without knowing a lot more, we can’t really evaluate how long it should reasonably take to wrap up at the end of the day.

      Reply ↓
    5. Jackalope*

      I mentioned this above but for me it takes 20 min to change and get all of my bike gear on, get everything stowed in my panniers, etc. I’m an outlier in my office at least, but it does legit take that long for me to get ready to go home (and 10 min or so in the morning to leave, although that’s faster since I pack things up the night before).

      Reply ↓
  17. Sandra T. Daley*

    No Experience Needed, No Boss Over il Your FD Shoulder… Say Goodbye To Your Old Job! Limited Number Of Spots
    Open…….salaryhere.com

    Reply ↓
  18. HailRobonia*

    #4: I work at a university and like to say “you can’t say the word ‘difficulty’ without ‘faculty’!”

    (Variation: there are two kinds of professors. Faculty and “diffaculty.”)

    Reply ↓
    1. Foxglove Beardtongue*

      I worked on higher Ed for years and never heard that and now I’m mad. If I ever go back (dog forbid), though, I will remember this.

      Reply ↓
  19. Dinwar*

    #3 reminds me of when I worked as a cook. We always started cleaning early–after a few months you get a really good sense of when things are going to slow down, and we had over an hour of routine cleaning (plus periodic deep cleanings that took forever), so we always started early.

    If someone came in two minutes before close and ordered food, I’d still make it. It’s an extra round of cleaning, but the boss made it very clear when I was hired that this was not optional. Occasionally gave us bonuses if it was something absurd, but in general we were just expected to do it.

    Depending on your industry, I wonder if it would be worth it to change your hours. Either tell customers that the last appointment/walk-in is at 4:45, or tell employees that their official hours are until 5:15 (and that they will be paid accordingly!). Obviously employees think they need some time to get things together before getting out the door, so it is probably worth it to provide that time. Otherwise it’s going to come off as expecting them to work extra unpaid hours. You may not see gathering your things and getting to the bus as work, but your employees obviously do, and since it’s stuff they do in order to provide the company with services I’m on their side. (If I asked folks to stay 15 minutes extra without pay I would be in serious legal trouble.)

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  20. Poison I.V. drip*

    It’s 20/20 hindsight now, but it seems to me if you pump at work you should probably set yourself up with a couple of alllies among your coworkers who will have your back in situations like this. I realize that won’t be possible everywhere.

    Reply ↓
    1. No Tribble At All*

      No? How are you supposed to set yourself up with allies? Send around a survey: how should I feed my baby — (a) buy formula (b) pump milk out of my boobs during the workday? Unless you know of other moms who’ve pumped in the office, how in the world are you supposed to bring it up? I told my boss: “I need to block out this time to pump in order to feed my baby. When I WFH, I can work while pumping, but when I’m at the office, the room isn’t big enough for my laptop, so I can’t” and that was the end of the conversation. The LW obviously feels very ashamed about this whole situation. Talking to more people about it isn’t going to make her feel better.

      Reply ↓
      1. Insert Clever Name Here*

        I’m assuming they mean someone that you can text and say “I had to run out the door last night and left my pump supplies out; could you pack them up for me?” But as someone who pumped at work (albeit in a space solely dedicated and furnished for that purpose) I honestly can’t name a single person who I would feel comfortable sending that request to…and I work with great people who I like very much. It’s not asking someone to collect the charger I left in the conference room, it’s medical equipment!

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  21. Enn Pee*

    To LW#4 – if the emails are frequent or distracting, and there is truly nothing you need to hear from this professor, I’d recommend routing all of his emails to your Trash. (I recently did this for emails from someone I never want to hear from again, and it’s really improved my mood!)

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  22. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #3 The employees should be allowed to complete work shutdown – notes for the next day, filling in timesheets, clearing desks, switching off computers, washing coffee mugs etc – during the last 15 minutes of paid time.

    However, imo collecting coats, boots and bags is not work, so it is reasonable to require that this be done at 5:15pm.
    If the OP wants this, then she should clearly say so rather than dropping hints or looking irritated. Not “I’d rather you..” but “you need to …”

    Reply ↓
  23. CallYourMother*

    LW #2 – I hope you read this comment. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Literally nothing. Does your office have a lunch room? Are you telling me no one has ever left a spot of coffee, chili, dried peanut butter etc on the counter?

    This situation reflects the undue burden placed on new parents. Most people pump because they do not have adequate (if any) paid parental leave. Most workplace do not provide adequate support e.g. culture and friendly-policies. Many don’t even meet the legal minimum e.g. pumping room. Because pumping often involves the intersection of workplace, cultural hangups, and breasts, it creates a lot of weird unnecessary issues (that have nothing to do with you). I would guess this isn’t the only incident reflecting a less than friendly working mom culture. Why did the meeting run over? Why did you feel like you couldn’t leave to take care of a medical need? Be weary of your workplace and the Mom Penalty. I’ve been in similar situations, it sucks and feels like you are the problem. You are not.

    Please know there are other people out there who don’t see a “messy” pumping room, but see how hard you are working, how dedicated you are.

    Reply ↓
    1. samwise*

      The fact that the only place OP can pump is in a crappy supply closet without a lock tells us everything we need to know about how supportive this employer is.

      Reply ↓
      1. Drought*

        Yeah it wasnt lost on me that the state of the pumping room was of no concern until a spot of milk dropped from a flange and then it was red alert.

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  24. anonymous here*

    OP #4.
    Go to the graduate director for your department/major. You can also go to the department chair.

    This man is an emeritus professor = he is not a current member of the faculty. Some emeriti are wonderful and productive, or are important and have clout despite not being on the faculty. That is not this person. It’s very sad — I suspect he is lonely and misses being a faculty member, is feeling left out and unimportant. Which is why he’s pushy with students — they don’t have power and they don’t know how to respond to unprofessional and unpleasant behavior like this.

    Stop responding to his requests. And if you can keep him out of your peer sessions, do so.

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  25. Parenthesis Guy*

    #2: I’m not sure I would say anything to my boss in your situation. It seems like due to the mutual discomfort that you’d both be happier pretending it didn’t happen. If he brings it up, I’d make sure to apologize and probably just try to forget about it as soon as possible.

    I don’t think it’s a big deal, but it’s probably more embarrassing than actually problematic. Best to try and get past it as soon as possible.

    I also think this is making a mountain out of a molehill, but you asked us not to make that argument.

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  26. Drought*

    In umpteen years working in offices I have never worked anywhere that micromanaged leaving like this that wasn’t an absolutely terrible place to work in every other way.

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  27. JelloStapler*

    yes, if other professors said to stop replying, go with that for sure. they have probably been on the receiving end of it too.

    if he ramps up, is there an Ombudsman, Dean or Provost that can tell him to stop?

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  28. Dust Bunny*

    LW1 don’t take that job. One, it sounds like a lousy job overall, regardless of your work-location preferences, but also it’s not going to be the situation you want. “Interesting” isn’t going to compensate (and I rather doubt it will be as interesting as you hope). Right now you’re hoping it will be something that the evidence you’ve presented says it won’t. Keep looking.

    Reply ↓

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