open thread – February 7, 2025

by Alison Green on February 7, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Beancat*

    Happy Friday, all! I was wondering anyone has any experience with negotiating salary for an internal promotion? I have a range but don’t know the best way to respond if the offer comes through.

    Thank you in advance!

    Reply ↓
    1. LA*

      Yes, but this will vary a lot by industry! I have largely found that companies of a certain size are very concerned with ensuring that your new salary doesn’t come in above the average of the position for the current employees in that role (though in my experience this really neglects other important factors). Knowing what the numbers are internally is crucial. Knowing what the market is paying for the role can help particularly if you’re coming in markedly below that average and you can show that data, though you might only trigger a salary review for the role and nothing for yourself.

      So really, my best advice is to gather as much internal information as you possibly can.

      Reply ↓
    2. EngGirl*

      Is it feasible to speak with others in the role and get a feel for their range? You’d have to account for your own experience levels, but it might help you to know that Kyle who’s been in the role for 5 years makes 85k.

      Otherwise I would definitely ask the question during the interview process if that ship hasn’t sailed already. If it has then you can kind of do it the same way you would with any other job if the offer is low. “I was hoping more for X due to these factors. Is there any room for improvement?”

      Reply ↓
      1. blerghher*

        Piggybacking on this, I’ve phrased the question to prospective peers “do you know roughly what salary range someone in my situation might expect in this role?”. It’s kind of a softer way that bluntly asking, “How much do you make?”

        Reply ↓
      2. SansaStark*

        Jumping on that piggyback. This is how I found out that HR was low-balling me by over 15K. It turns out they had some incorrect number in their system and was able to correct it due to my concerns that it wasn’t matching others.

        As to how I would have responded if they left the offer where it was….honestly, even as I was walking down to HR to find out the result, I wasn’t sure. I figured I’d probably take it and use the new title to start looking for a new position.

        Reply ↓
    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      I didn’t end up having to negotiate, but when I was applying for an internal promotion, I found some salary surveys done by a professional organization that serves people in my industry, and looked at salaries for this level of position in my state, as well as at salaries of people at organizations the same size as mine and for people with as many years of experience as I had. Combined, these gave me a rough estimate of my market value. I used that to form my expectations, and stated them when asked. HR came back with a surprise: they actually offered me ABOVE that range. Apparently, the hiring manager and his manager both really liked me.

      Reply ↓
    4. Elspeth*

      I don’t want to discourage you, but I wanted to relay an anecdote. When my husband and I got internal promotions (different companies/industries) we both got firmly shut down when we tried to negotiate. These were promotions for which we applied and were interviewed (we weren’t just given the promotions). It was surprising to us. I would still always encourage you to negotiate though.

      Reply ↓
      1. Parenthesis Guy*

        Same thing happened to me. It’s hard to negotiate unless you’d actually refuse. And if you do, your current job might get pulled. It’s tough.

        Reply ↓
      2. Sneaky Squirrel*

        Yes, I’ve worked with companies that completely shut down negotiating for promotions with the logic being that you’re not experienced in the role yet so they expect you to start at the bottom of their pay scale.

        Reply ↓
      3. Formula for internal promos*

        Same here. I work for local government and they use a formula to determine promotion increases, even when the internal candidate gets the job through a competitive hiring process. It’s totally bogus because they will negotiate with external candidates, which means people are penalized for being loyal to/moving up in the organization.

        Reply ↓
    5. learnedthehardway*

      Do your homework on what the going range is in the market – preferably within your industry and geography as well. Glassdoor and some of the online job boards have relevant information – you sometimes have to provide your own information to get that data, but it’s worth it to find out what the salary ranges are in your area.

      Also, have a list of your accomplishments and where you have added value – you want to be able to demonstrate that you are already making a big difference and so should be paid more.

      Reply ↓
  2. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

    Federal workers: based on what you’re seeing, is it risky for a cisgender* person to send in their passport for renewal? I need to renew it sometime in the next year, and I’m not optimistic about the government becoming *less* chaotic and unpredictable as time goes on. And I may need that passport if I someday need to get out for my own safety.

    I was planning on mailing it today and requesting expedited service, to increase the chances my passport gets back to me ASAP, rather than disappearing into the void of the chaos or some new policy or executive order. But is there a good reason not to?

    * Cisgender as far as everything on public record is concerned, and the government never needs to know otherwise.

    Reply ↓
    1. Parcae*

      I’m a federal employee but have zero connection with or insight into passport services.

      If it were me in the same scenario, I’d renew right now. At my agency, things are more or less business as usual. People are nervous and unhappy, but we are more or less fully staffed and operating at normal efficiency. I expect that to deteriorate over time as the impact of the hiring freeze, voluntary resignations, and involuntary reductions in force hits.

      There’s uncertainty to everything right now, but it’s not as though that uncertainty is going to go away next month either.

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        That was my reasoning as well; I just don’t follow the news closely, so if there was something specific that made this a bad idea, I might not know about it. Thanks!

        Reply ↓
      2. WeirdChemist*

        Also a fed, not specifically working in passport services, and I agree. Most of our work is still business as usual. In approximately a month, there is likely to be a government shutdown (the current CR budget only goes through March 14, and you *know* they’ll be pulling some shenanigans…), which will cause significant delays, so get your request in asap!

        Reply ↓
    2. banjoist*

      If you apply online you don’t have to send the old one in! You do have to acknowledge that your old one ceases to be a legal document when you hit “submit,” but you’ll still have it in hand.

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        If I have it in hand but it’s not a legal document, does it benefit me? I was thinking of doing the renewal by mail and expediting it, because the shorter processing time seems more valuable to me than having an invalid passport in my hand.

        Reply ↓
        1. passports*

          I renewed my passport in December & experienced a very fast turnaround time, even with by mail, maybe 5-6 weeks altogether. I did expedite my passport. I believe there are limits on who can renew online (passport has to be expiring within a narrower window of time).

          Reply ↓
        2. LaminarFlow*

          I am not a federal worker. But, my neighbors just renewed their passports online in the beginning of January, and the new passports arrived last week.

          Reply ↓
        3. SprawledOut*

          FWIW, I have heard from reliable sources that there were a bunch of people in passport services who were really working hard to get folks’ passports renewed before the inauguration and inevitable policy changes. I don’t know if those people are still pushing hard, or even able to do their work the same, so YMMV on current wait times.

          However, I’d suggest filing online and keeping your current passport. Even if it’s not a legal document, there have been recent reports of the passport office refusing to return people’s documents if there is a “problem” with processing. Right now, most of those problems are restricted to trans folks or gender changes, but that could easily change in a short span of time. Keep your current passport and physical documentation if you can, just in case.

          Reply ↓
        4. JustCuz*

          My husband and I renewed our passports for expidition. He is a naturalized citizen, and literally got his back in less than two weeks. Mine on the other hand required an additional form so I am starting over in that process, but hope to receive it now in a couple weeks. So go ahead and do it. Just make sure you have everything ( I thought I had reported my passport missing 2 years ago, but they had something different to say about that lol.), because it seems business as usual.

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        5. Wilbur*

          Renewed online in mid November, got my new passport in early December. Super easy, you’re eligible as long as you’re not changing anything, you had a standard 10 year passport, and it expired less than 5 years ago. You can also pay for expedited processing online if you’re concerned. Good luck, stay safe out there.

          Requirements for online passport renewal (USA):

          -The passport you are renewing is or was valid for 10 years, and you are age 25 or older. 
          -The passport you are renewing is either expiring within one year or has expired less than five years ago.
          -You are not changing your name, sex, date of birth, or place of birth.
          -You are not traveling for at least 6 weeks from the date you will submit your application. We will only offer routine service, and the time it takes to get a passport will be the same as renewing by mail.
          -You are applying for a regular (tourist) passport. You cannot renew a special issuance (diplomatic, official, service) passport online.
          -You live in the United States (either state or territory). You do not qualify to renew online if you live in a foreign country or have an Army Post Office (APO), Fleet Post Office (FPO), or Diplomatic Post Office (DPO) address.
          -You have your passport with you, and it is not damaged or mutilated, and you have not reported it as lost or stolen. Keep your most recent passport and do not mail it to us. 
          -You can pay for your passport using a credit or debit card.
          -You can upload a digital passport photo.
          -You are aware that we will cancel the passport you are renewing after you submit your application. You cannot use it for international travel.

          Reply ↓
        6. Indolent Libertine*

          An expired passport is not valid for travel, but it *is* valid as ID, for example for filling out an I9 for new employment.

          My husband renewed his passport using the online option – this was before the election – and got his new one back in less than 2 weeks.

          Reply ↓
    3. Jessica*

      I sent my passport in for processing on January 10, my check was cashed in late January, and the website says I should expect it to arrive in the mail on Feb 11. I did not pay for expedited service, and I had to submit my old paperwork (and a certified copy of my divorce decree!) because I’m going back to my maiden name. I wondered too if passport processing would be affected, but if anything it was completed faster than I expected.

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Good to know! If there are any new traps like “Don’t change your gender!” or “Don’t mark X!” that I might not know about, somebody please tell me!

        Reply ↓
        2. Artemesia*

          They are firing people who attended work seminars on gender issues; absolutely don’t do anything related to gender besides marking whatever gender your old passport reflects. If trans and without an old passport in your gender, this is not the moment to make the change. If you need a passport you are going to have to go with the deadname. I know people struggling with this and it sucks but it is pretty clear the government is doing everything it can to crush you and your ability to travel is important.

          Reply ↓
          1. Rara Avis*

            What if the birth certificate and SSN have been changed to the new name, so the old passport reflects a person who no longer legally exists? Could you get in trouble for traveling under that name? (Not a hypothetical — my child is in this limbo.)

            Reply ↓
            1. LaminarFlow*

              All documents must match in terms of name, sex, gender, birthdate, etc., etc.

              So, if your child’s passport is in their previous name/gender, they need to renew it to reflect their new name, gender, etc., etc.

              Think of it like when someone gets married or divorced, and changes their name. Consuela Bananahammock needs a passport that states her name is Consuela Bananahammock, as opposed to her former name of Consuela Fruitbasket.

              Reply ↓
              1. Pocket Mouse*

                LaminarFlow, I think you’re missing some key piece of the situation. Ultimately, yes, ideally all documents match. Right now, for Rara Avis’ kid and presumably many others, they don’t. The federal government is not inspiring confidence that the passport can be updated to align with the other documents, and a letter writer in last week’s big fed employee post indicated document for some trans people (maybe just those getting an X on their passport, I don’t recall the details) are having their documents confiscated entirely. And it is crucial for trans people to be able to leave the country if things get worse, it’s not an idle question.

                Rara Avis, I’m not an expert, but I don’t know of a reason an unexpired passport couldn’t be used to travel; it’s still considered valid. Birth certificates are on a more local level; it’s possible that there’s some cross-referencing with SSNs but then a whole bunch of people who change their names for non-gender reasons (well, non-transition reasons, as changing one’s name is still super gendered) would be in the same boat. If there starts to be cross referencing of gender… that’s real bad news all around.

                On one occasion I accidentally marked the wrong box when getting a driver’s license. It was issued with the marker I had checked. I got it corrected by showing up and basically saying, “this is obviously wrong, can we fix it” and they fixed it. In the event your kid has a document with their new name and wrong marker and their appearance is more in alignment with their new name, this might be an option.

                Wishing you and your kid the best.

                Reply ↓
            2. anonprofit*

              It’s sounding like that’s going to be a tricky situation if your child wants to get a new passport. I have a link to a google document that may have some answers. I can’t 100% vouch for the information in the document, but it does match with news articles and first-person accounts that I’ve seen/heard, and it’s probably a good starting place. I’ll put the link in another comment, but there are a lot of variables to consider, such as:
              Does your child’s birth certificate say that the gender was amended?
              Was your child’s old passport issues when they were a minor or an adult?

              Reply ↓
            3. anonymous name changer*

              Nonbinary person here who has done a legal name change: I think this is ultimately a question for orgs like the Transgender Law Center and the ACLU as well as trans law experts like Chase Strangio and Dean Spade (both are posting on Instagram and you can google to find them!) There’s a lot of speculation and worry going around, but what you want is solid, accurate information, ideally from lawyers/legal scholars.

              In my experience, FWIW, I never had problems crossing a border with a passport that had my old legal name on it even after I had legally changed my name. The nature of a name change is that it inherently takes a long time– you can’t change all your documents at once, and so I had mismatched documents for about two years from initial court order to the final document change, which was my passport. That was very standard and normal; lots of people have mismatched documents when they are in the process of changing names for any reason, including “non-trans” reasons like marriage/divorce. My passport name did not match my Social Security card name for quite a while and that was never a problem for me, including at the border. (Your mileage may vary, however: I am white and was born in the US, so there’s a lot of privilege operative there. And, of course, that was then; who knows what the situation is now.)

              My hunch, based on the legal experts I’ve been reading, is that keeping and using an unexpired passport with an old name (and just using the old name on the plane ticket if you’re flying) is likely a much safer bet than trying to renew a passport if you have any record of having administratively changed a gender marker, BUT I’m not a lawyer or a legal expert, and I’m also not a minor or a parent of one; that may really change things in ways you probably want tailored legal advice for. Legal defense orgs are currently putting out resources on this, so I’d encourage you to look for that specifically and get as much legal guidance as you can before doing anything. Thanks for supporting your kid, and good luck out there.

              Reply ↓
    4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Not a federal employee but giving my 2 cents. I would still renew now. I haven’t heard any problems for people except for trans/non binary folx. There’s some who they are ok with going back to putting their birth sex on the passport and they are still refused passports.
      I think the next group of people will be people of color. I can also see pushback for women (I’m thinking BS like “does your husband and/or father give you permission?”).

      I’m in a situation where unfortunately I would not be able to leave the country even if I did have a passport. I am the guardian of a family member with severe intellectual disabilities. I will not leave her behind and I wouldn’t be able to bring her with me. besides not knowing what care she could get in another country she would not do well with being taken from her home and from her carers. She is completely non-verbal and non-communitive (no ASL or devices that she can use to communicate)

      Also, I don’t WANT to leave. This is my country too

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Oof, I hope things remain tolerable for you and your family member.

        Do you know if it’s a problem yet being a woman with no makeup and a buzzcut? I was looking at my passport photo yesterday with paranoid eyes, and wondering if I was going to get flagged even without marking X. I get called “sir” sometimes in public.

        Reply ↓
        1. Seamyst*

          I’m a nonbinary femme-presenting person with a buzzcut, and I didn’t have any problems (all my legal docs still say I’m female), although I did wear some makeup. It sucks to say this, but if you’re worried, maybe a little light makeup would help? Pick two of tinted moisturizer, lip gloss, and mascara or eyeliner (all fine with cheap drugstore brands, if you don’t own any), and tell yourself it’s another kind of mask.

          Reply ↓
          1. Seamyst*

            And also, I think it’s still universally understood that passport and driver’s license photos generally suck. If someone side-eyes your passport photo, you can always give a white lie like you were sick that day.

            Reply ↓
            1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

              Oh, good thinking! Yeah, and I’m not allowed to smile in these, and I look way more identifiably female in the mirror if I smile.

              Thanks for the makeup suggestions; I think I could purchase and apply lip gloss and mascara without needing a tutorial, lol. I’m thinking about it.

              Reply ↓
        2. ShortHairCareSoMuch*

          Hi! I am a cis woman with no makeup and a buzz cut. I renewed my passport online within the last couple weeks, it processed very fast and I was notified yesterday that it had shipped. I won’t feel completely safe until I have it in my hot little hands, but I didn’t experience anything strange or even, like, normal amounts of delays. Do it now!! Best case even barring discriminatory shenanigans, passport processing may get hit with layoffs and disruption which will slow things down, so get it done asap would be my advice.

          Reply ↓
          1. ShortHairCareSoMuch*

            and HUGE LOVE for all the federal workers who are still making things happen despite (gestures broadly at everything.)

            Reply ↓
        3. Blarg*

          Ciswoman, have cancer, so unintentional buzz, and I never wear makeup . Also, chemo messed up my eyes, so now I wear glasses. I feel like I look nothing like old ID pics — no glasses, long hair, etc. (though, still no makeup) — but have had zero issues. Even the creepy facial recognition things at TSA still recognize me, though I don’t hardly recognize myself… (Also, my passport photo was taken in early 2021, pre vaccine, and my face looks exactly how I felt — terrified to be indoors without a mask on, looking like I hadn’t left my apartment in months). Not sure if that’s helpful but it seems like both humans and machines still recognize us as us — it is the paperwork that is causing people issues (which is asinine and horrific, and I’m sorry you’re dealing with anything more complicated than just a regular passport renewal hassle).

          Reply ↓
        4. Kay*

          Cis female here but I think attitude also helps a lot. My DL photo looks veeery different than I do now (I don’t wear makeup when I travel anymore, I don’t look very feminine either for hair or clothing and I get referred to as sir) so this last time I traveled I got a bit more scrutiny at the TSA line but I practiced looking marginally inconvenienced by the delay but not disrespectfully huffy and all was fine.

          I often get more grief in foreign countries that my last name isn’t the same as my husband’s (when I travel with him) than I do for my well timed rebellious looking color change (just in time for passport photos).

          Reply ↓
    5. Arthnold Manacatsaman*

      fwiw, I (cisgender with no special considerations or circumstances) successfully renewed mine online earlier this month. I was kicking myself for not doing it before the inauguration, but everything went smoothly. I didn’t pay for expediated service and received my new passport in, like, 3 weeks. I have immense gratitude for the federal employees who are still holding down their day-to-day duties under current circumstances.

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Good to know, and ditto the gratitude! I am sort of kicking myself too, especially since I had a friend going, “Renew now! Renew now!” in November.

        My special consideration is the non-gender conforming aspect of my photo, which is now the main thing I have concerns about.

        Reply ↓
        1. Arthnold Manacatsaman*

          Ah. I gotcha – I can’t speak to that side of things, so I’m sorry I can’t offer more reassurance. Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

          Reply ↓
    6. CubeFarmer*

      Never say never, but I’ve always received my passport within about 4-5 weeks of submitting a renewal. I’ve never paid for expedited service.

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Indeed, I’ve never had a problem in the past either; I’m asking specifically about what’s changed in the last 3 weeks since inauguration day or forecasted to change in the next 3 or so weeks. It’s already become a problem overnight to mark X or have a history of more than one gender.

        Reply ↓
    7. DataGirl*

      Hypothetically, if I was not cis I would be concerned about the government tracking name/gender changes on official documents like driver’s licenses and birth certificates, and using that to confiscate or deny passports. Honestly, I don’t have a good answer.

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Yeah, fortunately I have and intend to maintain a consistent history of a single gender (F) on all my paperwork that’s ever existed. But my passport photos are reasonably non-gender conforming, if you define “women” as “wears makeup and long hair” (which certain decision-making people do).

        For people who don’t have that consistent history, or for whom it’s distressing to maintain one, I am SO sorry.

        Reply ↓
        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I am not an expert in any of this. But if your paperwork all says F, and your photo looks non-gender conforming as you describe, and you look like your photo, I’d add a couple of stereotypically “feminine” items worn on or near your face (bright lipstick, hoop earrings, pink fitted ballcap with rhinestone design, statement necklace, etc.) so anyone who’s comparing you to your photo will say “obviously the same person, and female.” (Also? Consider a pink ribbon cap or pin. Anyone who squints at your passport photo can be told “yeah, I looked awful, chemo sucks.”)

          And I’m sorry this has to be a concern for you.

          Reply ↓
          1. Our Business Is Rejoicing*

            Note: Unless things have changed, you cannot wear a hat for a passport photo (I’m also pretty sure you can’t wear glasses.) Earrings/jewelry/makeup are the way. If you have piercings anywhere other than the ears, take those out for the photo.

            Reply ↓
            2. Rusty Shackelford*

              Sorry, I guess I misunderstood – I thought the photo had already been taken and the op was talking about presenting the passport and matching the photo but still looking F.

              Reply ↓
            3. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

              I don’t think you have to take out facial piercings for passport photos, unless this is more related to looking stereotypically “feminine”. Or at least, I have never bothered taking out my nose stud, and given the resolution of the image, it isn’t going to be visible

              Reply ↓
        2. Arrietty*

          Fortunately (for extremely limited definitions of fortune), the executive order on gender didn’t mention any of those aspects, so even by their own definition you should be okay.

          Reply ↓
          1. Rusty Shackelford*

            Yes, I thought we were talking about how the OP would look when presenting the existing photo, not taking a new one.

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    8. Bluebell Brenham*

      I just renewed online this week after asking myself the same question. Keeping my fingers crossed that I will get it back in a few weeks. It’s my understanding that you can’t travel with the old passport after you have applied, but that it can be used as ID.

      Reply ↓
    10. Slightly Less Evil Bunny*

      Not a fed, not an expert, and don’t do any work with passports. But… I think the only issue currently is if anyone wants to use the ‘X’ designation for gender.

      From your question, I’m not sure if that’s a concern for you. But I’m pretty sure I’ve seen on my socials someone posting that their renewal was denied on that basis.

      I agree with others that things are only going to get more ‘Charlie Foxtrot’-ty, so I’d probably submit sooner rather than later.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rara Avis*

        Not just the X, I think — to get a new passport for my child’s new name, I would have to send in documentation which would include the new birth certificate, which says it isn’t valid unless stapled to the original — so anyone can see that “Katie” became “David.”

        Reply ↓
      2. DataGirl*

        Unfortunately not only the X marker. Anyone who they can prove ever had documentation stating a different gender than what they are using now, is having their passports denied and application materials seized.

        Reply ↓
    11. anonymous worker ant*

      I renewed online in early December for similar reasons (it had actually just expired, but I was still well within the window for renewal instead of getting a new passport.) I got the new on in the mail in less than two weeks, non-expedited, which was way faster than I expected.

      Given stories I was hearing from December and early January, my impression is the passport people are being very realistic about how important it is to get as many passports to people while they can. If you’re a second-generation-or-more citizen and a cis person as far as the government knows, with no other reasons to worry about the administration, I’d do it now. I wouldn’t necessarily worry about expedited service; the online renewals seems to be going pretty smoothly and fast.

      If you aren’t, you have to make a personal judgement call about the risk of losing it entirely vs. the odds that you’ll want to leave the country really soon, and I don’t know what to say there. Except I would probably do the online renewal; if we get to the point where you need to flee the country quickly, having a valid-looking US passport to show the Canadian border guards is probably better than not having a passport at all, even if it’s ticked off in the computer system, because who knows what they would have done to the computer system by that point anyway.

      Reply ↓
    12. 3-Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

      Do it now and expedite EVERYTHING – sending the application in, sending the passport back, etc. You want that processed before anything is shut down and before most of the people in the office are offered a fork in the road or fired.

      And get the passport booklet AND THE PASSPORT CARD. The latter isn’t much good for travel, but you can keep it in your wallet to prove citizenship.

      Sorry for yelling, but I had to update mine in 2020, so you can imagine the fun.

      Reply ↓
      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Yeah, my plan is exactly to expedite everything: sending in, sending back, and the processing, and also getting the book and the card.

        Reply ↓
        1. 3-Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

          Good!

          Unfortunately, I just thought of another reason to push this through ASAP: the continuing resolution keeping the government running ends on March 15. With the *waves at everything* a shutdown seems inevitable.

          Reply ↓
    13. Elliotte*

      Mine expires in 2026, looks like I could mail it in now to renew or I could wait until May to renew it online. I’m worried about mailing it in and having nothing during a delay. Anyone have insight on pros and cons to mail it in now or wait and do it online in May?

      Reply ↓
      1. SprawledOut*

        So far, passport processing seems to be happening at a good clip, so that would be a point in favor of getting it done now. There have been some reports of passport offices not returning physical documentation if there is a perceived “problem” with renewal, though that seems to be mostly limited to gender markers at the moment. That might be a point in favor of doing it online later (so you don’t have to send anything in), but a lot can happen between now and May.

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    14. Observer*

      I was planning on mailing it today and requesting expedited service, to increase the chances my passport gets back to me ASAP,

      I wouldn’t do that. Mostly because for your purposes the less anyone looks at your request the better. You want to be as boring, unremarkable and non-memorable as possible. Zero flags.

      Reply ↓
      1. One more thing*

        There are many reasons why people request expedited service. It doesn’t open the request to more scrutiny, it just prioritizes it to the top of the pile. There’s no reason for the OP not to ask for expedited service if they want to.

        Reply ↓
    15. cncx*

      Renew as soon as you can.
      We don’t know how far public service will break down.

      Also, regarding the current regime’s posturing about birthright citizenship, born us citizens whose parents or grandparents have an immigration background probably want to renew when they can as well. While the regime can’t just scrap the fourteenth amendment, the breakdown of public service and mixed messages will definitely create administrative confusion.

      Reply ↓
      1. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

        I didn’t even think of that–I was born in the US, but my mother is an immigrant, and so were all my grandparents.

        My passport is valid through early 2030, which feels like roughly forever.

        Reply ↓
      2. Retired MT*

        When I renewed my passport on line, I submitted the paperwork and photo on December 30, 2023 and had it by January 20th. Do yours now as it will only get busier with all the craziness.

        Reply ↓
    16. Anonnn*

      Renew now AND call your reps and senators to protest the dismantling of govt and Musk’s control. Feds are having their lives upended but EVERYONE in the IS (and globall) is impacted.

      Reply ↓
      1. anonymous holocaust ancestor*

        Does anyone know if you can renew early? I renewed to be ready in 2016, so I’m good through 2027, but would feel better if I could restart the 10 year period.

        Reply ↓
        2. Elliotte*

          You can’t renew online more than 1 year early. If you renew by mail, you have to send in your existing passport and wait. My current sense is that if you have a couple years left valid, maybe wait until this initial burst of chaos sorts out. In a few months we’ll at least have an idea on the new (probably longer) expected wait times . I’m concluding I’d rather have my valid passport with me during the next few months instead of it sitting uselessly in a queue while federal personnel is in upheaval.

          Reply ↓
  3. C++Anon*

    Gotta get something off my chest!

    So I work in tech, specifically in software engineering. Layoffs are a fact of life here, and there’s a lot of them going on now. I don’t like it but it’s a reality of the industry and modern job market, so there’s a limit to how upset I can get over it.

    Something that never fails to get me mad, though, is how some friends and acquaintances speak about it. I have a number of friends who’ve tried to break into the industry, whether it’s by taking programming classes at a community college or doing a bootcamp, and generally. Those guys are the first to get real nasty when layoffs happen, whether I got laid off or there’s just a wave of layoffs happening in industry. Stuff about how I’m not going to be employable anymore because of AI, or some real nasty quips about how I’ll be replaced by foreigners and “DEI”. You can imagine.

    It’s gotten to the point where I mostly have blocked their numbers and socials and told our mutual friends I’m not hanging out if those guys are present. Sorry. I’m not getting younger and I don’t want that energy in my life.

    Reply ↓
    1. Qwerty*

      I avoid most online places for tech because of this. Even LinkedIn is becoming unbearable. I find it to be part of the online echo chamber on any topic where it just becomes a spiral into negativity.

      So, I feel you. If there are any meetups in your area or developer groups, I’ve found those to be much better environments. There’s still a small percentage of very vocal people like this, but as long as no one argues/engages someone will usually pivot the conversation to anything else. IRL groups are way more positive and “look at this cool thing”.

      Reply ↓
      1. C++Anon*

        Meetups are great. Conferences can be a little startup-bro-y, but they’ve become more welcoming over the years (I am in my late thirties). It’s crazy how “people are just meaner online” even applies with people you’ve known in person for years. I don’t get it.

        For the guys I’m cool with in these friend circles, the way I phrase it is: “listen, I know you and Wakeen go back like twenty years, but I really can’t stand being in the same room as him after I gave him a lot of advice on how to break into tech, he didn’t take it, and now he acts like a snippy little kid at every opportunity in the group text. Sorry for putting you in this situation, but he and I straight up cannot get along.” It hasn’t been a problem yet.

        Reply ↓
      1. C++Anon*

        Thank you! It’s annoying because I am indeed in the middle of the job hunt and a lot of companies are still waking up from the post-holiday slumber, but I have more than enough savings to keep me going until I find something even better than my last job. And every interview I’ve had so far has gone great, because again, no resentment on my side, plus I have solid skills, plus I view that knowledge as a way to multiply the rather than a way to flex or make people feel smaller than me.

        Reply ↓
    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      Frankly, I don’t want the energy of ANYONE griping about foreigners and DEI in my life. Foreigners and DEI are not bad things. Don’t blame you at all for blocking them.

      Reply ↓
      1. C++Anon*

        As a white guy I can say that these guys are the literal epitome of mediocre white men. I’m in my thirties, as are most of my friends. A lot of these guys grew up in much more well-off families than I have, so to do a little bit of armchair psychology: they hit 30, realized they haven’t really built a career for themselves, and buy into the “learn to code” meme. Then they realize it’s not as simple as “read one Python book and every big tech company will be banging down your door with a $150K check,” and instead of buckling up, they just get racist and resentful.

        I have all the sympathy in the world for career changers or anyone trying to learn something hard. What I don’t have sympathy for is the “oh yeah ChatGPT is going to be able to do your job better than you by 2026” or “they’re only going to hire women and immigrants,” idiocy, because like – come on man.

        Meanwhile just about every immigrant or visa holder I’ve met in this industry is a class act. I don’t want to end up sounding like one of those “model minority” type guys, but I’ve never met an East Asian, South Asian, or woman in tech who radiates resentment like some of these friends of friends do. And if they did, they’d have justification!

        Reply ↓
        1. dulcinea47*

          “model minorities” are such because there’s bias against them and if they went around with an attitude like those guys they’d quickly be driven out.

          Reply ↓
          2. JustCuz*

            I have a theory on this: white men have by and large made themselves mediocre (or obsolete at best -just search articles about how much they are falling behind in society in general) simple BECAUSE they made the rest of us try so hard. I run literal circles around my white male counterparts simple because I *HAD* to. And in capitalism, at the end of the day, money talks – no matter how much you try to tear down “DEI”. You wanna make money, then hire the skill.

            Reply ↓
            1. Ellis Bell*

              The teacher speaks for this phenomenon is that if we have low expectations (boys will be boys etc) then we end up with young adults who are low curiosity, low resilience, low effort, and low work ethic. I don’t think teachers do have low expectations, but society does.

              Reply ↓
            3. Ally McBeal*

              I think you’re spot-on with this. The rest of us really have had to try so much harder for so long that we’re better simply because we’ve been consistently trying for so long.

              Reply ↓
        3. Artemesia*

          I remember nearly 30 years ago a friend telling me how unfair it was that her husband didn’t get the job he was interviewing for ‘because they had to go with a woman.’ I knew the job in question; they had hired a white guy. I don’t know if her husband lied to her out of embarrassment or if the hiring manager told him that to make it easier for him to reject him without saying ‘we went with someone better than you.’

          My perennial anecdote on white guys can’t catch a break. My husband’s law class was 180 almost all white men and 20 women. Law review which is awarded at the end of year one to the top 10% of the class was 10 women and 10 men. 50% of women achieved it and about 5.5% of the men. Many white men don’t want to have to compete — and who can blame them when for all of history they got to go to the head of the line.

          Reply ↓
          1. Analystical Tree Hugger*

            ” Many white men don’t want to have to compete — and who can blame them when for all of history they got to go to the head of the line.”

            Yes and…I think the narrative can be refined a bit. This applies significantly more to RICH white men.

            Poor white men have significantly less power, influence, and success; lumping them all together makes enemies of people who could be allies for people who want an equitable society which could be a true meritocracy (versus the BS “meritocracy-which-ignores-history-and-reality” that’s floating around right now).

            Reply ↓
            1. RC*

              And then the rich white men use racism on the poor white men: “see, you’re not the bottom of the pile, remember you’re still totally better than anyone non-white” which yes, keeps them in their place because then they won’t organize to make alliances to overthrow the rich.

              The last 5-10 years might have made me a socialist… I didn’t used to be quite so emphatic about all of this but, man, I am so over playing nice with all my (white) relatives et al.

              Reply ↓
            2. Tea Monk*

              Eh, if they have the resilience to be allies, they’ll be chill and understand nuance and listen more than they talk. If they can’t, that’s on them, not us. Having them take responsibility is a kindness because it recognizes them as people

              Reply ↓
        4. Observer*

          I know that this is not the point of your comment, but you just perfectly illustrated why coddling your kids too much is *such* a bad idea.

          The guys you describe sound like they grew up almost never hearing no, nor having to work for anything and sometimes not succeeding in getting whatever it was they were trying for.

          Reply ↓
    4. Alex*

      Yeah I’d nope out of any “blame foreigners and DEI” energy as well. Because that’s just racism, which has no place in my life.

      Reply ↓
    5. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I say good for you for setting boundaries over this. That really sucks and I’m sorry you have to see that. I hope that these people are not close friends or family members.

      Reply ↓
    6. DisneyChannelThis*

      It’s such an obvious trap from the outside, “your problems aren’t due to me your leader and your government, it’s due to those people, the ones who don’t look like you or have the same genitals as you” and yet tale as old as time, it’s radicalized people.

      Block the dudes, avoid them socially etc. It’s not your responsibility to try to un racist people, or to educate them. Spend that energy helping people who are affected by it, call your politicians etc.

      Reply ↓
      1. C++Anon*

        Yeah I can see a split in that friend group. The people I knew would be decent, empathetic, and respectful people are showing themselves to be that.

        Predictably, all the bigotry is coming from the failures to launch. For them, “DEI bad” and “ChatGPT is going to take your job” are ways to cope, because they can’t believe that anyone else would work harder or have more humility than them (not saying that life is fair and working harder fixes everything! Society is very unfair and we need to work to make it fairer!), and it must be because their intrinsic characteristics are hated by the world, when the reality is the exact opposite. Posted about that upthread.

        Reply ↓
        1. learnedthehardway*

          You know – I think some people need it to be pointed out to them that their bigotry is entirely “failure to launch” playing out as “blame anyone but myself”.

          Reply ↓
        2. ElastiGirl*

          Fwiw, bitterness and excuses from the “failure to launch” crowd isn’t limited to tech.

          I just read an application from a performer grousing about how he never got lead roles due to unfair treatment and discrimination because “it’s such a struggle to survive as a gay man in the theater.”

          Um….

          My jaw is still hanging open. No, he did not move forward in the process.

          Reply ↓
    7. Busy Middle Manager*

      You’re underestimating the impact constant outsourcing (300k jobs a year) is having on the job market and thus peoples’ life plans, trajectory, ability to pay off student loans. Average people with a degree SHOULD be able to get a job. This isn’t old-fashioned layoffs due to tough times, it’s layoffs to hire someone cheaper elsewhere

      I got cut from an adjacent field and it was a bit of relief. This job hunt has been especially horrible. So many places simply aren’t hiring in the US at the moment. I went throw five rounds and nailed it at one company, then they were forced to outsource the role and they even gutted some requirements from the role. It was very eye opening, just another example about how it’s purely about cost cutting.

      While I completely understand some of your gripes, you have to take this market for what it is, not how we want it to be

      Reply ↓
      1. C++Anon*

        Seems like you’re talking past me or replying to a different comment?

        The economy sucks and we’re seeing a lot of bad behavior from businesses, that’s correct and it is justified to be angry about it, but that’s not what I was griping about. My complaint was people I know who, as this snippy jerkish jab at me, go all “ChatGPT is about to replace you for good!” or “you’re going to have a hard time finding a new job, because companies only want to hire immigrants and women since DEI” when there’s tech layoffs. That bitterness probably comes through when they do get interviews for software roles, and I think that’s a genuine “the world isn’t fair, grow up” type situation. Nobody wants to work with people who are bitter and resentful all the time.

        Reply ↓
        1. Michael. Just Michael*

          Wow dude. This is like, VIOLENTLY condescending. We get it, you’re an industry veteran and nobody is as smart or understanding or sympathetic as you. Get over yourself.

          Maybe that’s why your friends aren’t especially sympathetic to you?

          Reply ↓
          1. Hroethvitnir*

            Why are you more sympathetic to people who are angry at brown people and women because they weren’t handed a job after one online class than the people currently under attack?

            Nobody does want to work with people who are bitter and resentful all the time.

            Reply ↓
          2. JB (not in Houston)*

            Uh, these friends aren’t just unsympathetic, they are blaming women and non-white people. I don’t know about you, but if my friend is being condescending*, I don’t turn around and say “well you’re gonna be out of a job soon because of all the foreigners taking all the jobs.” So no, C++Anon is not the reason those people are acting the way that they are.

            Reply ↓
        2. Busy Middle Manager*

          I partially get your vent, I do *, but was honing in on the last part you wrote about the bitterness. Yeah they may not be great coders or BAs but how do they become great if almost no one is hiring and every company who used to hire for tech / Business analyst / “coder” roles isn’t hiring anymore or is actively outsourcing. You need real experience to get good.

          I don’t think it’s “world isn’t fair grow up” because there is definitely a structural change going on now where requirements for some jobs have gotten so high that almost no one can meet the bar. Our society needs roles for average people too! This is no longer a personal issue, it’s structural. Corporate has become the hunger games. I used to work with so many mediocre people who could barely make a pivot table, but they got paid enough to afford a house. Now you can have 3 programming language and good experience and barely get an interview. I wanted to add that because it’s important, not to invalidate your vent!

          * I agree with you though the issue is not DEI, that would imply companies are hiring but only hiring some people. That is not even happening. I agree with you that people overstate what AI is and does and am scared companies will gut people “because AI” will do their jobs, even if they don’t use AI!

          Reply ↓
          1. JB (not in Houston)*

            C++Anon explained more in another comment about what’s going on with these particular friends, and that makes it sound a lot less like these guys have a real reason to be bitter and more like they just thought the path would be easy for them without putting in much effort, and they’re mad it didn’t work out that way. And whatever the state of the tech industry or how much sympathy we can have for people, in general, in that situation, I don’t think you need to work so hard to stick up for these particular bigoted guys.

            Reply ↓
  4. Imperfect perfectionist*

    I hate to call this a struggle, but does anyone out there have advice for how to deal with a boss who’s a pretty major perfectionist? But also doesn’t seem to have an understanding of what’s reasonable to ask from employees. I generally really like my boss but sometimes it’s too much.

    For example during the middle of the month I have to prepare part of a presentation for our senior leadership. I will start prepping for this as early as possible and meet with my boss a couple of times for this prep. Inevitably we get interrupted by more urgent things and my prep gets pushed out. I completely understand this even though I don’t like it. Eventually we get to the point where I’m coming in early or staying an hour or two late to work on the presentation with her and she starts to nitpick on non-substantive issues. It would be one thing if it was “oh, those numbers aren’t right” or “you’ve misspelled the word magnetic” because those are things that matter. It’s usually more like “I think I like the word night is better than evening” or “hmmm, is there a better stock picture of penguins we could be using here for this filler image” (situations representative but very clearly made up).

    I too think of myself as a perfectionist, but at some point you’ve got to submit the report, and it’s very frustrating to be putting in extra unpaid hours (I’m salaried exempt) at the end of a long day for these types of edits, especially when I tried to get the ball rolling earlier.

    Reply ↓
    1. KitKat*

      One thing I might try is to see if she could just make those types of edits on her own time without you there (ideally do them as “suggestions” for tracking if you’re in something like Google Slides). Like, “Hey boss, would love you to do a review of wording and imagery in the next 2 days, then I can apply the changes”. I’m guessing this would be a lot less painful if you can just “accept changes” rather than sit there and handle the feedback in real time, especially since you don’t seem like you care that much about these details (not in a bad way, just like, you’re not going to fight her on which penguin picture to use). You could also try combining this with an artificial deadline (like “I want to get all copy edits/feedback by this friday so I have time for a final polish before presenting”)

      Reply ↓
      1. Ama*

        Yes, I had a boss like this and I would just either send her the file we were working on for her to input edits (this is how we usually handled slides), or if the formatting was going to be fussy, she’d send me edits in either track changes or on a paper print out of the file and I’d put them in. It’s really inefficient for you to be sitting there while she thinks over her edits.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ama*

          I should add — I have worked with a few coworkers who were under the impression that “we’ll sit here and edit the file together” was more efficient and it *really* isn’t for precisely the reason you point out, that she’s hemming and hawing and needs to actually think about it for a bit. Meanwhile you could be doing other work (or at home).

          Reply ↓
          1. Always Tired*

            My boss INSISTS that it’s super helpful to him for us to meet together to update things like questions for reviews, but it’s a bunch of him asking me why the current questions are so bad (you came up with them dog, ask yourself) and making me do all the typing. It makes my skin crawl.

            Reply ↓
    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      How is your relationship with her? Could you maybe say “here’s my draft, can you please let me know the most important things I should fix first? There are X days until it’s due, and I want to make sure I focus on the biggest issues in order to get it done in time.”

      Reply ↓
    3. Qwerty*

      Can you have an out of the moment conversation about the amount of time these presentations are taking? Separate it into meaningful time vs minor edits (use better phrasing than me!)

      I had a boss like this and she was horrified to find out that our weekly slide deck was taking so many man hours. Our templates was a huge part – editing anything meant spending an hour getting it all to look correctly formated. We were having multiple pre-meetings before the pre-meeting with the boss. Her intent was someone would put 30min of prep work into the slide, have the pre-meeting with her, then spend 10-15min implementing the edits. It is really easy as a boss to have a disconnect on how long something sounds like it should take and how long it actually does take. Changing a word – easy. Replacing the stock image – long time, might not be worth it and might require some push back in the moment.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hlao-roo*

      A few ideas for you:

      – Can you work on the report separately from your boss? You put together a draft, then send it to her for review? That way she can stay late flagging things like “change the word evening to night” (and also important things like “these numbers aren’t right”) and you can quickly make the changes without getting drawn into a long discussion with her.

      – If you have to work on the report with her simultaneously, can you say something along the lines of “I’ll flag the word ‘night’ and we can come back and discuss later. For now I’d like to focus on reviewing the numbers to make sure those are all correct.” Would she be OK moving on from the inconsequential things (with the promise to return to them later, time-permitting) and focusing on the important parts of the presentations first?

      Reply ↓
    5. Recovering Perfectionist*

      I’ve been the boss in this case (sorry!) and there’s sometimes a range of factors going on. For example, there are definitely times where I’m wordsmithing something with my direct reports where I just know they think this is annoying nitpicky-ness (night vs evening in your example) but *I* know that X senior person is a freak about a particular word, or that using a particular phrase or image will just send some other senior person spiraling down a rabbit hole and completely derail us. Remember, she’s bringing different context to reviewing.

      On the other hand, she needs to know how much extra work this leads to (this is the kind of information that bosses do not have and need their direct reports to provide). If she’s open to it in general, I’d encourage you to (gently!) provide this information, such as “I could make these changes by X time, should we still apply them or are there some that are more important?” (use your normal working hours for the turn around, not coming in extra).

      (I’d also gently point out your extra hours aren’t unpaid – you’re salaried. Salaried work usually reflects that the work flexes and contracts at different times. Are there times where there’s less need to be in the office (such as when you’re not working on this report) that could help offset this? Sometimes that can make the coming in early or stay late sting less.)

      Reply ↓
    6. MSD*

      I feel your pain. I once worked with a manager that made reviewing draft business requirements absolutely torturous. It was always nitpicking word A versus word B or minor format that had no impact on substance. Multiple reviews taking multiple hours for very little substantive changes.

      Reply ↓
    7. Lemons*

      Eh, I think this is just sort of how working with upper leadership is a lot of the time, you have to roll with how they like to work. Literally never met a CEO who even looks at the deck until like 8pm the day before the presentation.

      Reply ↓
    8. CubeFarmer*

      Oh this was my old boss! I coped with it by just…making the changes she wanted.

      Now that I’m in charge (I assumed her old role when she retired,) I’m trying to be about empowering my team without being a perfectionist micromanager.

      Reply ↓
    9. HannahS*

      When I worked with a micromanager I (quietly) ensured that she could not give me feedback live, because that would drive me up the wall. What I found that was the more I tried to make her feel included in my work to try and help her see that I was competent, the more anxious and nitpicky she became. I actually found that the opposite was more effective.

      For context, I was in a role where I could have expected to meet with my manager twice a week for updates, and email as needed for questions. She was sending me multiple emails a day, counseling me to change this and that single word in this or that document.

      I started ignoring all non-urgent emails from her, and sending her an email about half-an-hour before the end of each day (we do task-based work) detailing what I’d done and what there was for her to review, in a LOT more detail than I would have needed for anyone else, but very factual and outcome-focused (e.g “Meeting with John Smith: he wanted XYZ and is amenable to trying ABC.”) Then, I’d look at her email the next morning, make whatever edits she wanted, then send another email half-an-hour before the end of day. I was always very nice and deferential (“Thanks for the edits, I’ve made those changes. Here’s a quick summary of today’s tasks; let me know your thoughts. (etc.)”) It wouldn’t work with everyone–my manager wasn’t on site, which helped–but I found that making her spin out her anxieties AWAY FROM ME ON HER OWN TIME was absolutely crucial to my being able to work with her.

      The end? She LOVED me. She wrote me an amazing reference letter. My advice to you is to release yourself from timeline pressure–that’s her lookout, not yours–and stop reviewing the documents together in person.

      Reply ↓
    10. But Of Course*

      I use two strategies. I am currently my boss’s scapegoat so getting more of this crap than usual.

      1. I make it her problem as early as possible. My boss doesn’t react well to even very minor surprises, and also doesn’t want me to have any autonomy whatsoever, so I’ve adopted a strategy of looping her in early even though I’ll get pushback and making it sound like I’m asking for her excellent judgement. This could mean in your case something like “hey, boss, I’m getting started on that report and I know we’ll need a picture of some penguins; do you think this one or that one will resonate more with the audience?” (Full disclosure: my boss actually hates this but if I’m getting snarled at either way, I’m picking my battles and I’d rather get it for being “too proactive” in discussing timing of something than for not doing something it made no sense to do at the current time.) And yes, I will call/text/stop by the office/follow up until I get an answer for very important things.

      2. Related to that, I’ve taken up asking her to explain everything I should be doing differently “for the future”, because (and this may not suit your situation) we will do something Way X for years but this year I’m in trouble for not magically knowing she wants it done Way Y, and she will INSIST we have always done Y even though I have documented evidence we didn’t. It can help to force her to explain why what I’m doing is wrong because she’ll abruptly realize what I did made sense or was correct and the other party was wrong, or whatever. (Not that I get an apology, she just abruptly stops badgering me about it.) But it helps a lot to use language suggested all over the site; I’m fond of “I used the word night because most of the time described the sky is dark, but I’m happy to switch to evening – so I know for the future, can you explain why you’d prefer evening here?” It doesn’t exactly help if it really is change-for-the-sake-of-change but I have noticed she tends to bring less nonsense to me with a history of “being open and receptive to her feedback.” (I’m not, because it’s usually crap, but I don’t like getting yelled at and I don’t want to look for a new job since she’s leaving later this year.)

      Reply ↓
    11. PerfectIsTheEnemyofDone*

      I think there are a couple of strategies to tackle this – it may take some trial and error, depending on how your manager reacts.

      1. Work in a shared document and allow your manager to make their own changes, or you can specially note their changes as you make them. When you start the next presentation, go back into the history of the last presentation and see what items your manager was consistently changing. Add those into a list, and when meeting with your manager, advise that you’ve got a list of noted preferences and style adjustments from previous presentations – could they take a look and confirm they felt these were important to note and adjust in every presentation moving forward? Your manager will likely either realize how nitpicky they are being, or give you some context as to why those things are important.

      2. Set a schedule of reviews and note the purpose of each:
      Review round 1: messaging/content outline only, no style, design or language edits;
      Review round 2: messaging/content outline as translated into presentation language only, no design or proofreading edits;
      Review round 3: presentation language as placed into design, no proofreading edits;
      Final review: proofreading and any final minor edits

      Facilitate this by not giving more than each round is meant to review, as this will save you hours of re-work. Don’t insert the picture of penguins for the messaging/content outline or the language review, just put a comment [insert picture of cute penguins here].

      3. When your prep sessions/review rounds get pushed, walk in to the next session with highlighted areas of “manager input needed” and use the time on those points – not a full end-t0-end review that can get derailed by penguin pictures. If you work in a shared document, your manager can review and give their input on the other sections when they find a spare moment in their day (they most likely won’t be able to), but use the time you have on the most important areas that can’t move forward without input.

      Reply ↓
    12. Ashley*

      Some of this is harder if you are salary, but I find it helps if I can help them focus on the parts I can’t do without them or really require both of us. So wordsmithing is definitely let’s flag and get to the other stuff because I need to leave by x tonight type language.
      Something else I have done with the perfectionist boss is ask about what is needed immediately after they are out of the presentation meeting. This way you can start stuff and have place holders earlier to help remind them we don’t want to be scrambling like last time.

      Reply ↓
    13. Zippity Doodah*

      An edit loop! Extra points if after she piddles away all the available time on nitpicks (“replace patient with subject … OK change it back”) and ten minutes before the project is due, tells you “this was supposed to be about mushrooms and you wrote about ethics.”

      I’ve only ever gotten edit loops from people who were immune to the consequences of poor work: think K-12 teachers, tenured faculty, and one person whose job was protected when her company was sold. And the only solution I’ve ever found has been to stop working with them. Asking them “do you have any edits to the content?” often draws ire (“This is the content! Two spaces after a period is wrong!!”) and “I can do this or [other projects]” gets a lecture on time management. So let me know if you ever find a solution for this; but bear in mind that IMO if you have a good boss it won’t happen.

      Reply ↓
  5. BurnOut*

    Realizing this issue will be of short duration, but I’m starting my new job in two weeks – in my final week of notice at my current job. My new job has literally emailed me Every. Day. Now, I realize I’m just grumpy and burned out, and I wanted a bigger break but didn’t feel able to push given the times. All the emails would be okay on their own; some are “one quick thing” or involving an upcoming event or “just FYI.” But, I would love to tell them I don’t work for them yet, am scrambling to wrap up my current job, and will deal with them when I start! Is this weird or am I weird?

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      Filter them all to a folder and read them later – you don’t work there yet, you don’t need to know any of that.

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      1. BurnOut*

        They need responses!! I actually feel like I already look bad for not being more responsive since I’m not on my personal email during the workday!

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        1. ThatGirl*

          Why do they need responses? I’m not being snarky, I’m curious. If they genuinely do – are they coming from one person? I would seriously write something like “Apologies for any delays but I am focused on wrapping up my current position, I will respond when I am able and I look forward to starting with you soon.”

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            1. ThatGirl*

              they may feel urgent, but you truly do not need to reply to everyone within 30 minutes. Really. Checking everything once at the beginning and/or end of day is plenty, especially for “FYI” emails. I still recommend the filter.

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        2. Sharon*

          Tell them you’re having some issues with your email and to call you if they need anything from you before your start date. When you ask people to call they tend to decide it’s not really that urgent.

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    2. LA*

      I think you’re feeling pressure to respond because you’re getting the information, but you’re not (that I can tell) being asked to do anything with it. Practice just setting it aside – maybe set up a filter so it’s not in your inbox. They know you don’t work there.

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      1. BurnOut*

        Well first it was signing the offer letter which – fine, totally get that, and it took a couple rounds of emails with HR and the hiring person. Then it was was T shirt size, mailing address confirmation, could I take a trip next month, what dates, and now what flight times. Each one individually would be nothing, but as a whole …

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        1. BurnOut*

          Sprinkled in with first day info emails / login info etc that I don’t need yet that are “just FYI” but I still feel like I should reply with a timely “Got it – thanks!” at least.

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          1. KitKat*

            I would just reach out to your new boss and name it – like “Hey I’ve been getting a ton of logistical stuff and want to mention I might not be able to keep up in real time while I’m also wrapping up my current position. I’ll try to keep an eye out for anything truly urgent, but otherwise might need a few days to respond [or, ‘might not be able to respond before my start date’ if you prefer that]. Thanks!”

            BTW you are NOT weird for feeling this, sounds super annoying to me too

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            1. Momma Bear*

              This. You’re still doing a job, and it might not seem like a lot but collectively it is. I’d answer the emails no more than once a day. They’re excited to get things done, but you have other obligations, too. Maybe the boss can run herd for you. Good intro to their management style, too.

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    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Silver lining, their really excited for you to start?

      Absolutely just set aside time each evening and reply to them all at once. They know you’re still working, within 24hrs is a reasonable response time. If you feel better about it, reply to each person one more time and let them know in that reply (tshirt size is M and just a heads up Im in meetings rest of today and won’t be able to reply until around 7pm tonight).

      Also make sure you have a good plan to reset the burnout before starting. Maybe that’s takeout and paper plates all week so no cooking/dishes. Maybe that’s adding a visit to your favorite animal shelter or museum. Maybe that’s stepping up time with hobbies or time with friends.

      Reply ↓
    4. Sparkles McFadden*

      You are not weird and neither are they. This is all totally normal! Here’s my take on what’s going on:
      – You want to wrap things up at your current job.
      – You also want to make a good impression at the new job, so you feel like you have to answer right away.
      – The emails are coming from people who have been asked to get things ready for your start date so they’re sending stuff now hoping to get and item off of their to-do list.

      That all leads to a lot of stress. That said, it is completely OK to send everything to a folder and only check that folder once or twice a day. It doesn’t *feel* OK but it is fine. The one thing you can do is to contact the hiring manager and say “I’m trying to wrap things up here to leave everything in a good place for my current boss and coworkers, so I’m only going to respond to the onboarding emails at 6:00pm (or whenever).”

      Good luck!

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      1. BurnOut*

        Yeah I definitely think it’s just bad timing that this trip next month is in planning now and can’t wait, and the rest of it is just them trying to be efficient.

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    5. Apex Mountain*

      This doesn’t seem that out of the norm. I am starting a new job in a couple of weeks also and same thing. I like getting things set up in advance though so I dont’ mind it

      Reply ↓
    6. HonorBox*

      This reminds me of a bit of advice I once gave my wife when we were not married and still in college. That long list of stuff to do looks like a really long list of stuff to do. But if you take each item and assign a time you expect it will take to complete, it may ultimately be 3 hours worth of stuff…not three days.

      That cascade of “one quick thing” probably does seem like a lot. But I’d guess that it is partially because you’re trying to wrap things up and show engagement in the new job and respond as quickly as possible.

      Take a moment. Send an email to your new boss. Let them know you want to provide answers as quickly as possible, but don’t/can’t have your personal email open throughout the day as you wrap stuff up. Let them know you’ll be responding to inquiries in the evening. With all of them in front of you and time specifically set aside to answer, it might take much less time all told, and will likely cause much less stress because you won’t be bouncing back and forth, dealing with interruptions, and can think through the answers you’re giving more effectively and efficiently.

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      1. BurnOut*

        Yeah this is definitely part of it. Although someone else in HR did just request a 30 minute call that I maybe should have pushed back on …

        Reply ↓
          1. Ally McBeal*

            THIS! I once had a boss start emailing us with to-do items about a week before her start date and we just forwarded the messages to HR. She wasn’t an employee YET, wasn’t being paid YET, so we would handle everything when she got in. (It was also a yellow flag about her management style that escalated immediately to a red flag on her first day.)

            I’m not in recruiting or HR but I can’t think of any onboarding items that HAVE to happen before your first day (like, legally) and can’t recall any employer ever bugging me to the extent that OP describes. Especially not replying to an email about freaking t-shirt size.

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        2. WellRed*

          HR call can probably wait. I’ve never worked anywhere HR stuff can’t be done on day 1. Did you ask what the call was for. I hope they are just excited and this isn’t indicative of a constantly “on” culture.

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        3. Observer*

          Although someone else in HR did just request a 30 minute call that I maybe should have pushed back on

          Unless it was for something like making sure you’re properly in the Payroll and related benefits systems, setting up necessary accommodations or finding out important preferences on stuff that needs to be in place as close to start date as possible, this is a bit much. Pushing back on that would have been perfectly appropriate.

          Reply ↓
  6. Burnt Out*

    I’ve been dealing with burnout and am finding it is coming back, but I don’t have the option to take time off work or leave my job. I’m exhausted and my manager seems to switch between being supportive and being frustrated (understandable). Any advice on how to work through it would be amazing.

    Reply ↓
    1. EngGirl*

      Look at the actual causes of your burnout and how it’s compounding. For me it was work stuff on top of housework/chore stuff on top of family stuff leaving me no time for “me stuff” so I forced myself to carve out time.

      I put myself on a semi-strict schedule. Work stuff had to end when I left my car at my house. I wasn’t allowed to check emails/be contactable. Housework/chore stuff was relegated to Sunday mornings. I would prioritize what needed to be done in the time I allotted and that’s what would get done. Family stuff was harder because that comes up when it comes up. I did my damn best to carve out time on Saturdays for me. Some weekends that meant I went out and did things for fun some weekends that meant I was a potato binging a reality series. It took a while but it definitely helped.

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    2. Hlao-roo*

      Check out this Captain Awkward post: #450: How to tighten up your game at work when you’re depressed. As the title says, it’s for dealing with depression, not burn out, but there’s probably some overlap on advice that’s usable in your situation.

      I’ll link directly to the post in a follow-up comment.

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    3. BurnOut*

      Lol just want to flag this is a different commenter than me from the comment above. I think we’re all feeling the strain in these times …

      Reply ↓
    4. Lemons*

      I think it was Alison (I read a lot of advice blogs so maybe not) who said for her brain, burnout isn’t caused by volume, but by monotony, so ironically adding more to her plate, like hobbies or projects she likes, she begins to heal. I’m that way too and I had no clue until she mentioned that! Definitely worth examining.

      I also really recommend seeing what things you ‘have to do’ in your life that…maybe you don’t. Maybe you don’t have to keep up on housework so much, maybe you can make more frozen pizzas instead of cooking daily, maybe you can ask others in your life to do things for you. I’m sure your loved ones would love to help!

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    5. HannahS*

      Optimize every other thing you possibly can. Here is what I would ask myself:

      Health: Can I find a way to get more sleep or more exercise? Can I eat better? Is there a way to throw money at this problem (grocery delivery, meal kit, frozen meals, healthy-ish takeout?) Is there anyone I can recruit to help me?

      Work: Is there any way that I can make my job easier? Are there any work obligations that are optional that I can drop? Are there ways to make the moments at work better (can I take a tea break, can I take a walk outside, I’m too cold all the time; can I find a way to not be.) Can I throw money at this problem (make my commute easier, buy food at work?)

      Life outside work: Is spending time on my phone compulsively reading the news helping or hurting? What can I do instead? How can I carve out the time I need to take care of myself? Can I throw money at this problem (hire a sitter so I can see a friend, buy tickets to something fun? invite a friend over and buy takeout, hire a cleaner?) Is there anyone I can recruit to help me (Can my husband watch our child Sunday morning so that I can have time alone?)

      It’s like Star Trek; the ship needs all power directed to life support. What are the things you absolutely need to keep the lights on? That doesn’t only mean food/shelter; that can also mean “I absolutely MUST see a friend once a week” or whatever.

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    6. Sloanicota*

      I have to remind myself that sometimes in order to keep my salary, I’m going to have to spend some of it on things to make my life easier. If I can’t take a vacation maybe that’s getting meals or groceries delivered or hiring a cleaner or sending laundry out or signing up for a fun activity after work. It’s critical to carve out non-work low stress time for yourself.

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      1. HannahS*

        This. I don’t want to be someone who’s, like, an annoying rich person who goes around, “You know, I find my weekly spa trips SO HELPFUL why don’t you try that?”

        But honestly, when I look back on the most stressful times of my life when I really, really, REALLY should have thrown money at my problems (in the form of buying takeout and taking the occasional taxi) and told myself I couldn’t afford it, I was not ACTUALLY in a position where it was that or rent. I was in a position where I would have had to reduce my payments on my school loans, or end my side hustle and wind up not maxing out a particular savings account that year. And I could have afforded to do that, but I was refusing to take my own wellbeing seriously because I didn’t want to have to.

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    7. Montana*

      Reposting again~
      Burnout comes from feeling like you can’t say no. So instead of trying to optimize your time or whatever (you can’t actually manage time, one hour can’t become three; you can only manage tasks), you need to figure out why you are saying “yes” (in one way or another) when inside your head you are saying “no.” A good therapist can help.

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    8. Ally McBeal*

      One thing I’ve heard about combatting burnout is to make sure you’re doing something interesting and fulfilling in your personal life. Take up a new hobby (especially one that is dramatically different from your job, like an office worker learning to rock climb) and you’ll find yourself focusing less on how frustrating work is and more on what you’ll do as soon as the clock strikes 5.

      Or at least that’s what I’ve heard. The first time I had burnout I went on a two-week vacation (I love planning vacations as much as taking them so the planning became my hobby even though that sort of logistical work was basically what I did at my job), and the second time I saved up enough money to quit and take almost a full year off between gigs.

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  7. Sandra Dee*

    Are there any good resources for getting started as a freelancer? I’m in tech if that is relevant and it would more of a consultant / advisor for short term contracts or working on retainer for longer ones. Been getting a lot of people in the industry saying I’d be good at this and I kinda like the idea of being part-time for a while. But I have no idea where to start or what this even entails!

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    1. tab*

      If you’re in the US, I highly recommend the SBDC (Small Business Development Center) in your city. This free service is provided by the SBA and local universities. I’m an engineer, and used them when I started consulting. They were very helpful.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lemons*

      Contact those folks who say you’d be good at this (if they’re in the industry)! Ask their advice and let them know you’re open to work and would love any tips or connections.

      Reply ↓
    3. Ama*

      If there’s any way you can take on an initial client or two while still working full time for a bit that’s how I transitioned (although I went freelance in a very different type of work than I was doing full time). For me it was helpful to build up a small client base and get all of the things like setting up a website, my business accounts, business insurance, etc. set up while I still had that full time salary to help offset some of those startup expenses. And when I got to the point that I literally couldn’t take on more freelance work while still working full time, I knew I was ready.

      My other piece of advice is to check with every single jurisdiction you live in (state, county, and city if you’re in the US) to find out what, if any, registration/business licensing is required and if you are required to charge sales tax on the services you provide (in most states you don’t for non-material services but it’s always good to check). My city actually does require home-based freelancers to have a business license and I actually found that out completely by accident (I was researching sales tax).

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Yes and … note that for me, working two jobs was the fast train to burnout city, so do keep an eye on your workload.

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    4. bookish*

      The book “The Freelancer’s Bible” really helped me out when I was getting started! Also look up the Freelancers Union website – they have a lot of helpful information.

      Reply ↓
  8. *HigherEd Admin**

    I am currently working in higher ad as a department level admin role. How do you evaluate the workflow in a job outside of academia? Any advice on moving from higher ed to a more corporate role? I have about 7 weeks of vacation and significant sick time and I am worried the higher pay outside of higher ed will not make up for the loss of vacation time and increased work load.

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    1. LA*

      7 WEEKS! AND sick time. So jealous.

      You have to weigh what’s important to you. Sometimes you can just turn that lost time into the money it would represent, but sometimes you can’t because you can’t put a price on having the PTO. Obviously every industry will be different, but I’m not real convinced you’re going to get a markedly higher salary – you’ll really have to check. Plus the benefits might take a dive in other ways because academia is often working with a larger body and the ability to really negotiate with insurance companies etc.

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      1. NotRealAnonForThis*

        Its really going to depend though, based on what part of industry you leave university employment for.

        In my case, my current level of pay is a full 33% higher than what I could possibly be earning in an equivalent seniority level of university employment. (Verified in discussion with a former coworker who has remained there at said university department, we hired in at the same time) I would be at the top of the pay band in my old department, and we only ever received COLA. In private industry I receive great bonuses and merit raises. In order to progress any further in the university department, I’d have to obtain an additional degree…which is not the case in private industry.

        Taking health insurance out of the question (as the differences have become completely non comparable without a lot of adjustments), my PTO and sick are definitely lackluster by comparison, but again…33% more income solves a lot of issues for me. I’m not sure what I would do with roughly double the PTO/sick bucket, but I’m also at a place where, for private industry at least, my PTO is pretty generous.

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      2. cactus lady*

        The worked for 4 universities before moving to a private company and biggest change from me moving from higher ed to the corporate world was how much people make work their whole life/identity in a weird way. Some of it could just be company culture (this is the only non-university I have worked for) but it seems like friends in the corporate world have a similar experience. I get paid a lot more, and I have good benefits, but there’s a lot of false urgency about stuff and the expectation that you’re always working is definitely strong. It was hard for me to feel it out beforehand because I didn’t know what to ask. I wish I had asked about the expectation of being available after hours, because that was not a thing at any of the universities I had worked for and here it was just implied that if you’re awake you’re available to work. I’m not sure how I would have phrased that though.

        I would be happy to take a pay cut to have my university life back. unfortunately hiring at universities near me has stalled!

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        1. *HigherEd Admin**

          Thank you! That is exactly what I was trying to get at with my question.
          There have been some instances of having to work after hours and weekends and I have been able to push back pretty effectively. I have an impression that corporate work world is AT LEAST 40 hours a week and I am definitely not looking to move in that direction no matter how much more I could make.

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        2. Goldenrod*

          I work at a university and this rings true to me! I have a great team, and we all do our jobs and work hard, and take our work seriously…However! The work/life balance is strong. Everyone takes vacations. And we get 5 weeks of vacation a year, plus holidays. And no one identifies with their job to the point of losing perspective. No one brags about being a workaholic. And people aren’t expected to work overtime… It’s great!

          The money isn’t as good, but the benefits are amazing.

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          1. Blue Pen*

            Yes, I work in higher ed, too, and this is exactly where I fall. Could I be earning more? Yeah, probably, but not so much more that my entire life would be different. And so because of that, and because I have such solid benefits and work/life balance here, I don’t see the point of moving to a corporate position. You can work hard here if you want to, and we definitely do, but unless you’re super senior (and even then), it’s pretty much unheard of to work extra hours. The office is a total ghost town by 5 pm (even by 4:30 pm), and it’s not because people have gone home to work more. It would be extremely hard to entice me away from something like that.

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    2. YMMV*

      I work in higher ed and our vacation time is paid out when we leave. Sick leave is not, but they do apply unused sick leave towards retirement. If at any point, I leave and return (“break in service”) that sick leave won’t reappear in my sick leave balance but I can still use it towards my retirement. YMMV depending on your institution’s policies. I have left and returned several times. Mostly because the only way to get a raise was to leave. We hadn’t gotten a raise in years but newly open positions were often filled at a higher pay rate than currently occupied positions (don’t get me started on that). That doesn’t really answer your specific question about which is better, there are too many variables for that, but check your policies and see what they say. It might factor into your decision to know what you keep or lose if you leave and decide to return.

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    3. Spacewoman Spiff*

      I left a start up to work in higher ed, struggled with the slow pace of the work, moved back to corporate, and now…am back in higher ed. I don’t know that I can give any generalized advice other than to think carefully about what your priorities are as far as pay, time off, etc. How do you feel about your current workload? How many hours do you work in a week and how would you feel if that changed, and what parts of your life would you have to pare back as a result of working longer hours? I was earning about $30K more in my last corporate role than I am now (and that’s not even accounting for inflation…) but the workload was MUCH higher and expectations for work-life balance MUCH lower. When I was last job hunting I debated whether to go corporate or higher ed, but the types of roles I had in the corporate space just didn’t feel sustainable to me over the long term. Though I’m sure there are many people who feel differently! The vacation time you get in higher ed is definitely not going to be met in the corporate world, and no free week off around the holidays—for me, I think that’s enough to keep me in higher ed the rest of my career.

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    4. HR Exec Popping In*

      Pay and benefits will generally be better with a major corporation, but time off will be much less. Higher Ed and purpose are the attractive side of a career in that field. Only you can decide what is most important to you.

      Reply ↓
      1. Blue Pen*

        Eh, I disagree. Pay, probably, but in benefits, I don’t think so—at least not with a private university. I know some state schools don’t (can’t) compensate as well, though. Work/life balance is eons better in higher ed than corporate, too.

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    5. Lucy Librarian*

      I’m in my 40s and have worked for 3 universities and 2 private companies. I complain about working in higher ed a lot and could possibly make more outside of it. BUT I have generous vacation and sick leave, tuition benefits for me and my dependents, a retirement match, and solid insurance. I’ve also decided I’m good with the sometimes slow pace because it also means I have nights and weekends for myself and family. It would take a lot for me to leave. I’ve only applied to 3 jobs in the last 4 years and 2 of them were also higher ed.

      I realized the above is not advice! My advice would be to evaluate what’s important to you. What’s a must have and what is flexible in terms of work, benefits, and time?

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      1. *HigherEd Admin**

        I highly value my vacation, work/life balance, and benefits. I have been about 30/70 WFH in the past five years and that has been changed to FT on campus. It has been really affecting my job satisfaction and mental health, but it seems like I might not have luck finding better in the corporate world.

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    6. twish*

      I’m an academic librarian at a private university in my early 40s. I tried out working for a library vendor for a few years and don’t regret it at all — I learned a ton of stuff, met nice people, had great managers, all of that! — but I really missed the extra PTO. I’m back in academia as of a couple years ago, and it’s really, really nice to have a 35-hour workweek (a true M-F, 9-5 with hour lunch) and 5+ weeks of vacation, a couple weeks’ worth of holidays, and basically unlimited sick time. I crunched the numbers and my per-hour wage back in academia is the same or more than I was making in corporate.
      Interesting to hear that other people have experienced more of a “work = your identity” mode in corporate!! That was the opposite of my experience. I actually find that, in academia overall, there’s more of the vibe that everyone has a special calling to serve the lofty calling of scholarly inquiry, and when I worked in corporate, people were like, “naw, man, we all work to live, right?” So, like everything, it depends! If you want to try corporate to earn the big bucks for a couple years, you could always come back to higher ed with shiny new skills.

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    7. Ally McBeal*

      I worked in university comms for 4 years and called it a “golden handcuffs” job because of the benefits. It IS really hard to adjust back to corporate life, and I moved to a LowerCOL area after leaving that job so I’m making significantly (25%) less now than I did back then, but “LCOL” means something very different post-pandemic than it did pre-, so I am really struggling with expenses.

      I think the key for me is work-life balance. I found a job that offers a corporate-standard number of PTO days, but they are also relatively chill about flexible schedules where my university was not, and no one blinks when I leave at 5 on the dot almost every day. If I found a higher-paying corporate job, I know it’s not likely to come with the same level of flexibility. For you specifically, that might look like an EA role for a senior exec (maybe C-suite, maybe not) who doesn’t need you to also fill a PA role.

      Reply ↓
  9. Jessen*

    Where do people actually find jobs nowadays, especially if you don’t really have a personal network to rely on? I’m an IT worker looking to move away from government contracting; I’d prefer to stay in healthcare if I can but it’s not required. But I’m having trouble figuring out where to look exactly. I don’t have a lot in the way of contacts due to a combination of gender identity concerns and the fact that none of us were really expecting *waves hand at everything*.

    Trying to sort through where’s good to actually look that isn’t going to be a flood of resume farms, general scams, or low level jobs that are spammed at everyone. Honestly I’ve never really done a proper professional job search so I’m now in my mid-30’s and very lost.

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      I am in marketing, so YMMV, but LinkedIn and Indeed seem to be good for general job searches. LinkedIn can be very annoying but the jobs are usually real, as it learns your preferences it recommends better ones, and you can build a network there.

      There are likely IT-specific job boards out there too, but I’m not aware of them.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        I’m in engineering and I second this. I used Indeed for my last job search. Just plugged in my location and searched for a few common job titles for my field.

        I typically apply through the actual company website, where possible, because I have heard from a friend who works in hiring (different field) that most “easy apply” or “apply in 1 click” buttons makes a mess of resume formatting.

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      2. Jessen*

        Good to know. I think LinkedIn might need a bit more training or something for me? It keeps ignoring my recent IT experience and degree and trying to shove me at retail or call center type work (I have some older customer service experience on my resume but have been in my current job for 5 years and will be finishing a cybersecurity program through our local community college in may). Trying to get it to understand that I’m an IT professional and don’t want to deliver food or work in a warehouse has been a headache so far.

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        1. ThatGirl*

          the more your profile is filled out, and the more you look at the “right” kinds of jobs and use the settings to tell it what the “wrong” jobs are, the better it will get. But I do still occasionally get oddball recommendations, but overall it’s pretty good.

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        3. cleo*

          I saved a couple job searches in LinkedIn for specific job titles and that has helped with their recommendations.

          I also want to recommend setting up alerts / saving job searches in industry specific job boards. Since you want to stay in healthcare, I’d look for healthcare job boards that list IT jobs.

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        4. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

          You may want to tell LinkedIn not to display older jobs that aren’t relevant to the career you want, or even remove them from your profile entirely.

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        5. Chirpy*

          LinkedIn just sees the word “management'” in my degree and assumes I’m a manager (it’s more like “llama management”.) it also for some reason thinks I’m interested in brain surgery positions?? And it’s literally suggested my current job! So I’ve found it completely useless.

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          1. Chirpy*

            *my current retail job for my current company…I’m not looking for the job I already have, LinkedIn! (facepalm)

            Reply ↓
      1. Jessen*

        Thanks a lot! I know people always say “look at industry specific job boards” but when you’re on your first job in an industry and have never been involved in hiring, it’s not always clear what those are.

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    3. Decidedly Me*

      LinkedIn is where I found my last job (along with all the others I applied to). WeWorkRemotely I’ve used successfully in the past, as well.

      Reply ↓
    4. EngGirl*

      I just found what I wanted on indeed weirdly enough but I would say linked in is a good option especially if you can quietly mark yourself as open to work. That usually sparks some recruiters to reach out.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jessen*

        Honestly my job already knows. I’m an openly trans person working in federal government healthcare. I figured getting references from my current managers was worth the risk of telling them I’m job searching at a time when anyone with half a brain can figure out why I’d be job searching.

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    5. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      And Dice for Tech focused roles, it sometimes has stuff on there that I don’t see on LinkedIn or Indeed/ZipRecruiter.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    6. Jules the 3rd*

      Indeed, Monster, industry-specific job boards, targeted company sites.

      Only start-ups and small companies hire by word of mouth, and the good ones will cast a wider net with job boards.

      Reply ↓
    7. Parenthesis Guy*

      LinkedIn is good. But also looking at companies career pages makes sense. If you have actual healthcare experience/knowledge, then looking at companies focusing in those areas make sense. If you’re system admin or something and not really doing healthcare work, just look for big companies.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jessen*

        See that’s where it gets confusing for me. I don’t actually know what companies are operating in my area, or how to find out that information for companies that aren’t open to the public. I’m wary of moving because a lot of places in the country really aren’t safe for me right now. I’d be happy to apply to companies in my area but I’m not sure who’s around and hiring or where to get that information. Since a lot of my focus is in cybersecurity I think many places don’t want to do fully remote, although I’m open to it.

        Reply ↓
        1. Global Cat Herder*

          There are national cybersecurity conferences – look at who the presenters are, what companies they work for, etc. Haunt the “careers” page of each of those companies. Many of those may have a “sign up for alerts” and will email you.

          This is what I’m currently doing for a very niche IT role where Indeed and LinkedIn results are basically “we don’t understand, here’s general work”. One company is hiring 6 of the very niche role, which I wouldn’t know if I hadn’t found through a conference that they used this niche, and then set up an alert on their careers page!

          Reply ↓
          1. Jessen*

            Thanks that is a good idea! I’ve had some issues with Indeed confusing “cybersecurity” for “security guard” so specialized ideas might help.

            Reply ↓
    8. RedinSC*

      If you are still OK working for government, your local government is probably always looking for IT people, and they all have health care and adjacent offices for those jobs, look directly through their sites, for example, google, County Name jobs and see what they have.

      You could look directly at your local hospitals and medical service providers too. I’d narrow down a few places and look directly for their jobs listings.

      Reply ↓
    9. Generic Name*

      I used a combo of contacting people in my network and applying to jobs on Indeed or LinkedIn. By the way, if you interact with literally ANYONE ELSE in your course of work, that is your network. Are there any vendors or clients you talk to? Former coworkers who have left your current company? Those people are all in your network. I reached out to colleagues at other companies and said that I was looking to move on, and did they know of any openings. It’s a totally normal thing to do, in addition to looking at job boards and company websites. :)

      Reply ↓
      1. Jessen*

        So the thing here is due to the way things work, my network is both rather small and very siloed in to people who either directly or indirectly work for the federal government. Which is currently making it extremely clear that they don’t want people like me working for them. But even that aside, my job works through a ticketing system with almost no direct contact. I don’t think I’ve had a conversation with someone outside of my immediate coworkers and management since 2019.

        Reply ↓
    10. Anon for This*

      My son has been looking for a job in healthcare as well, though in records. The hospitals near us have jobs advertised on their web sites, though some send you back to the larger corporation that owns them. More IT than anything else, though I have no way to judge whether the pay is competitive. Might want to start looking at the hospitals near you.

      Reply ↓
    11. Texan In Exile*

      I have gotten every single job I have ever had either through my grad school job posting board or, in the past 15 years, from job ads. I have never once gotten a job via networking.

      And Alison’s advice has been invaluable for all of it – how to write a resume, how to write a cover letter (I once got an interview for a job that didn’t exist because my cover letter was so good – I had written about how I was not qualified for the position they posted but I would be perfect to report to that person), how to interview.

      I promise you it can be done!

      Reply ↓
    12. Sled dog mama*

      I’m healthcare adjacent in a similar way as IT and I’ve found that going to the hospital’s own website and looking through their careers page is usually really useful.

      Reply ↓
    14. Banana Pyjamas*

      I don’t know if it’s good resource, but I just started going through professional organizations’ websites. The first one I found (8th site) that had jobs was

      International Association of Privacy Professionals (IAPP) >connect>career-central

      Reply ↓
    15. Stuart Foote*

      “When you are looking for a job the best thing to do is to tell everyone, high and humble, and keep reminding them please to look out for you. This advice is not guaranteed to find you a job, but it is remarkable how suitable jobs can be found through the most unlikely people …It is surprising how many people subterraneously believe in destiny. The word goes round, and in a relaxed moment a businessman will listen with interest to the barman or the doorman. Hearing of the very person he is looking for, he might well think that luck has come his way, and arrange to see the applicant next day. There is involved that fine feeling and boast: ‘I just happened to be looking for an accountant, and do you know I got a first-class fellow through the barman at the Goat.’ People love coincidence, destiny, a lucky chance. It is worth telling everyone if you want a job.” –Muriel Spark

      I think this is accurate–I have gotten jobs through very random people and in very random ways.

      Reply ↓
    16. Miss Pickles the cat*

      I saw you mentioned cyber security in one of your replies; I know someone who works in cyber security at a large financial investment firm, and someone else for a health insurance company. Obviously not healthcare, but there are private employers who are looking for that skillset. And probably more industries now that all that ransomware stuff has been happening over the past few years. Good luck in your search; and I hope you can keep your current role until your search is successful.

      Reply ↓
    17. Voluptuousfire*

      Built in
      TrueUp
      Welcome To The Jungle (formerly Otta)
      Rise
      Wellfound

      ^^ Are probably best if you’re in the tech sphere

      Reply ↓
  10. Anon777*

    I’m thinking I may need to look for a new job and I’m open to it being in a different industry than I’m in now. I haven’t had to apply for a job in 25 years and am not sure where my skills would translate. Anyone have suggestions for job coaching or ways to find out what jobs would work with my skills and interests? I’m in a rural-ish area in the US so am open to meeting someone on Zoom if they are good at helping people explore careers that would work with their skill set. thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      There’s websites for helping find careers of interest but they’re usually segregated by general field, like https://myidp.sciencecareers.org/ helps narrow down values,skills,interest into careers for science fields.

      I’d think about and journal for yourself: What are skills you have now, what are fields that are interesting to you?, what degrees/certificates do you have and are you open to getting more if needed or looking for immediately transferable? Are you able to relocate or does it have to be a job that exists in your area, do you have physical limitations, do you want to be indoor at a desk or moving around, or outdoor etc.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lady Lessa*

      Are there any community colleges in your area? I know that mine has a very good career center and is open to anyone in the area, not just students.

      Reply ↓
  11. Sarashina*

    Happy Friday, everyone! Anyone have tips to very nicely and diplomatically take several steps back from a former job when you got an internal promotion? It’s been about a year and a half since I got promoted, and everyone – including my successor – is a bit too reliant on my ability to step back in and manage that position. I’ve been trying to steer things back to the right channels on a case by case basis, but I think a firmer message might be needed.

    Reply ↓
    1. LA*

      Stop being responsive, even when passing it off. Slow your responses entirely – stop getting back to them same day, and increased that over time. Limit your helpfulness increasingly to referencing the responsible person, and then eventually to just forwarding without comment. Even if there’s no one in your old role – perhaps especially if.

      Reply ↓
    2. Petrichor*

      I would consider two approaches. First, with your successor, I would name the pattern you are seeing: “I have noticed that my old colleagues are continuing to utilize my knowledge of the role, and it is taking time away from my current projects. I was happy to do this as you got settled in, but that’s not possible anymore.” I might also try to build up your successor’s confidence if you think that’s appropriate, “I have seen you respond to these issues before, and know you are great at it so I am going to be redirecting folks back to you from here on out.”
      With your former colleagues, just make yourself a very slow and inefficient source of help. When asked for something, keep saying “Oh, I am really swamped right now and wont be able to assist with that until *some amount of time in the future* but my successor is fully capable of handling that”

      Reply ↓
    3. Goddess47*

      See if you’re new boss will let you throw them under the bus for a while. “Oh, I have to ask Fergus but he’s been grumpy lately and I’m going to guess he’s going to say I can’t do that.” Or variations on a theme… ‘my new boss won’t let me’ can be a helpful out.

      Or, go back to the ‘what have you tried?’ tricks that float around here for dealing with others who do not want to/cannot learn some skill. Push it back at them.

      Another option, make the declaration that your new job is busy enough that you can only devote one hour on Thursday morning for questions about your old job. “I’ll get to that on Thursday.” And if they ask on Friday, it’s always “I’ll get to that on Thursday.” Give them the hour a week and if you can’t answer all the questions in an hour, then it waits for the next Thursday. It lets you be helpful while setting a boundary.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    4. HonorBox*

      Talk to your boss and outline what’s happening. Ask for their blessing to push back so that you can say something like, “It has been 18 months, I’m focusing on what I’m doing in my new role, and really may not be the right person to weigh in any longer. Going forward, check with Xena for more guidance.” Or maybe you do provide some information, but not in real time. Can you get approval to set aside 4:30-5:00 every Friday to answer some questions? Then point out to those asking that you have a very tight schedule and can only dedicate that window of time to providing information.

      Reply ↓
    5. Boggle*

      I think you should be honest and direct in pointing out this is a non-tenable situation. You have a new job which needs all your focus, you cannot be pulled back to handle your previous position. It’s not your responsibility to find out why it’s occurring only that you can no longer assist, and if someone contacts you, redirect, redirect, redirect. What does your current manager think about this, or did you get promoted within the same group with the same manager?

      Reply ↓
  12. Jonathan MacKay*

    What’s the responsible thing to do with misplaced product that doesn’t belong to you or your company? We received some skids of our product, but mixed in with it was some specialty shampoo, which upon closer inspection is easily worth $45 a bottle. 6 bottles a box, with 5 boxes having fallen into our stock. We have no way of knowing who it belonged to, or which skid it had fallen off of in the truck.

    Contacting the shipping company did not accomplish anything, as they could not help without being given information I did not have. Ethically speaking, I’m of the opinion that the ‘right thing’ (or at least the most morally correct thing) would be to just dispose of it after making a fair effort to determine where it ought to go.

    Were I more comfortable with grey areas, it probably would’ve occurred to me to sell it all off myself, but since it more or less literally ‘fell off a truck’ it feels way too close to stolen goods to me.

    Reply ↓
      2. Charlotte Lucas*

        Technically, if you get something you didn’t order, you aren’t responsible for “fixing” the problem or paying for the item, but I second donation as the most ethical solution.

        Reply ↓
    2. Pomegranates*

      If you’ve done everything you can to return it and cannot, then I don’t see why you would have to get rid of it. I wouldn’t sell it, but to give it away to friends and family feels totally reasonable to me.

      Reply ↓
    3. ThatGirl*

      It’s not stolen in the sense that someone took it for fun or profit, but it’s “shrink,” essentially. It may be $45 a bottle retail but it’s likely nothing to whoever lost it.

      That said, donating to a shelter or food pantry (they sometimes take personal care goods) is a solid idea.

      Reply ↓
    4. CherryBlossom*

      Any chance you can give it away to employees? Value of the shampoo aside, I don’t think just disposing of it is the most ethical thing, since it would all go to waste in a landfill.

      You made a good faith effort to get the lost product back to its rightful owner; for all intents and purposes, it’s yours now. You’re free to keep it all and sell it if you’d like! But if that feels icky to you, at least making sure they go to places they’d be appreciated would probably be better than chucking them.

      FWIW, I used to work as an office manager and I’d get free samples/gifts from vendors trying to court our business. I’d pick out what I’d like, and set out the rest of it as First Come, First Serve freebies. Not quite the same, but free is free.

      Reply ↓
      1. Artemesia*

        Donate it to the food bank, a domestic violence shelter or a homeless shelter. I’d probably go with the first two as homeless shelters usually manage with individual small toiletries rather than larger ones whereas the large bottles are useful for the home for a food bank patron or for someone living in a domestic violence shelter.

        Reply ↓
    5. Venus*

      At the least don’t throw it out. If a neighbor asked me to get rid of it then I’d donate it to a shelter that has shower facilities. That, or sell it to a salon and donate the funds to the food bank. There are options that require little effort on your part that would make the community really happy!

      Reply ↓
    6. Seashell*

      It might be more aggravation to the shipping company or wherever it came from to figure everything out and find a way to get it back to the right person than it’s worth.

      If by dispose of it, you meant throw it in the garbage, I don’t think that’s ethical. It’s a usable product, so don’t waste it. Find someone who can use it or donate it to a charity that gives toiletries to those who need them.

      Reply ↓
      1. A. Lab Rabbit*

        This is it, really. I worked with a lot of shipping companies at old job, and it was much easier for them to just deal with claims (because they had a uniform process for that) than it was to try to sort these things out individually.

        It’s yours now, so please find someone who could really use it to donate to. I second looking into food banks & homeless shelters.

        Reply ↓
      2. Socks*

        Yeah, I’d say throwing it out is probably the least moral option here. Another vote for giving it to employees and/or donating it

        Reply ↓
    9. ReginaG*

      If you don’t feel you can keep it, rather than dispose of it (by which I assume you mean throw it out), donate it to a woman’s shelter. At least that way it won’t be wasted, and will do some good.

      Reply ↓
    10. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      If the shampoo is from a small company, maybe notifying them and seeing if they can track the order on their end (maybe only one store made that specific order). I’d only send it on if the company paid for the shipping.

      Otherwise, I agree with the donate to a shelter suggestions.

      Reply ↓
    11. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      Personal hygiene stuff? Donate it, don’t discard it. Shelters are always going to need shampoo. In general, yeah, selling it would be unethical, but if you’re going to literally throw it away donation is almost always going to be preferable.

      Reply ↓
    12. HonorBox*

      You’ve done what you can do to find the rightful owner. I think selling it would be problematic ethically. But if you let employees grab some, and then donated some to shelters, you’d be able to have a clear conscience.

      I knew a company that donated misplaced or “damaged” (like the box got torn, and the shipment was rejected) to various fundraisers in the community throughout the year. It wasn’t lots and lots of stuff, but a school or church could always count on a TV or a video game system or something like that.

      Reply ↓
  13. serenity now*

    Hello and welcome to Part 2 of the federal government email nonsense, the sequel that none of us wanted and yet received anyway. Elon Musk is nice like that. I know we had a thread about this earlier this week, but I figured I’d give an update.

    On Monday, your friendly local federal government employees logged into their computers to discover yet another email. For a re-enactment of the reaction, please allow your mind to drift to the Arrested Development dead dove “I don’t know what I was expecting” reaction image.

    Since I had actual work to do, I ignored that email and only glanced at it a few hours later. It purported to be a FAQ; folks on reddit noted, accurately, that it appeared to be trying to respond to critiques posted on reddit. It responded badly.

    I have mentioned these emails are unsigned, let me be even more specific. They claim to come from someone named “HR”, whose email is HR at OPM dot gov. There is no signature at the bottom of the email. There is no digital signature on the email.

    As far as the email itself is concerned, it may as well come from a 10 year old at the local elementary school who has figured out how to spoof email addresses. This is why we are getting incessant emails from leadership assuring us that the emails are “valid and lawful”.

    Sure.

    There is a large contingent dutifully marking these emails as phishing; they are both correct and also probably pissing off their local IT office.

    But were it not for the internet grapevine and fednews reddit, I would have no idea these emails are coming from Elon Musk & Associates. They seem to be coming out of nowhere and then we get several more emails from leadership that yes these emails are “lawful”, but I have noted several times that leadership never actually says who they come from, how, and why. We’re just supposed to assume this is “HR” at OPM.

    Not to belabor the point even more, but HR in the government is never called just “HR”. We might refer to it as “HR” but the organizational group that does HR in our agencies is not known by that two letter acronym.

    This week, trying to sleep, I indulge myself by getting philosophical. Why is Elon Musk doing this? What does he gain by attempting (illegally) to destroy the US federal government? I understand why privatization happens; people love to charge folks for what they used to get for free. But what does Musk gain by destroying the FAA? The FSA? The GSA of all places? I don’t understand. It must be an ego thing. Perhaps my lack of understanding is why I’m not a billionaire. I also wasn’t born to billionaires, which is probably the bigger reason I’m not a billionaire. Alas, I must settle for being a low productive federal employee, helping save lives every day.

    I do not get the Tuesday emails that some on reddit received; they describe that as a “contract”, aka a word document that was fully editable. The competence of the people sending this out has never been assumed, but at this point, any possible benefit of the doubt must be extinguished. Either that email wasn’t sent to my agency or it was only sent to those who took the offer. Through the week, I do keep hearing that you have to resign in order to see the contract you’re signing. That seems backwards.

    Wednesday dawns and with it another Fork In The Road email. This one is long. I skim it. It is trying so, so, so hard to sell us on this “deferred resignation”. At the end, it has a “deferred resignation letter”, which is approximately 8 paragraphs that they should have sent the first time around, where they attempt to explain what this is and what your quitting entails and how that’s going to work. The carrot in all of this is that if you do this, you don’t have to give up telework/remote work, but your resignation is effective at the end of the fiscal year (end of September). So… you’re quitting now and will work for several months anyway. This is a change from what we were previously told, which is you quit now, stop working, but still get paid.

    Over and over, the question has been, how “deferred resignation” different from quitting? Why not just quit when you want to quit? Elon Musk & Co keep changing their answers on this. The one bright side of that is their incompetence is one thing that is stopping some people from taking the offer, because the offer is just so bizarre.

    This week also features a lot of obfuscating emails from leadership trying to explain things. For instance, we get an email from on high saying that those who take deferred resignation could get VERA (early retirement). Then I attend a town hall where we’re told that VERA has not been approved. Logic would also suggest that since deferred resignation is, y’know, quitting, and quitting is a different thing than retiring, that you cannot quit and then take retirement.

    Sidenote on this because I ran into it when dealing with people IRL about this: quitting is different from retiring. When you retire from the federal government, you get benefits. When you quit, you do not. Therefore, saying you can retire after you’ve already quit is a very strange thing to say.

    I am lucky (?) in that I have a lot of different leadership types sending me emails so I can see the full gamut of reactions, from cowardice to greatness. The truly best responses have been from those who are doing their best to slow walk everything, making it clear that we’re going to do everything by the book and according to policy, and whoops, turns out they didn’t bother to make policy, so we’re going to wait until they do, because you have to do things properly and make sure we’re complying correctly with everything. These are the folks who have calls where when someone says “I know [specific thing] is not allowed, but what about [tangential thing]?” and they reply “we have not been told tangential thing is not allowed”, subtext: go ahead and do the tangential thing.

    And then there are the other emails, which don’t do that. Everyone who parroted the line that DEI is shameful and illegal: I saw that. We all saw that. Everyone who is jumping to pretend trans people don’t exist: I see you, and I am slow walking you.

    We are also hearing over and over again that some positions aren’t eligible for deferred resignation. What positions are they? We don’t know. That question comes up over and over again. But we don’t know. You can certainly email “resign” to HR at OPM dot gov, but who is the one making the decision on if you’re allowed to quit or not?

    Important to note: everyone is allowed to quit. You just have to quit to your supervisor. OPM, as discussed last week, ain’t your supervisor (unless it is, my continuing condolences to my federal siblings).

    But swirling around this “deferred resignation” push is the idea that these positions will not be filled. So if every single doctor at your local VA took the offer, whoops, they’re not going to be filled. In theory. In practice, well, those positions are probably exempt from the hiring freeze. But good luck getting applicants!

    They’re trying to destroy the federal government and, hand to god, I really don’t understand why.

    This brings us to Thursday, the final day to accept the wonderful offer that is quitting your job with nothing lined up! Because if you don’t quit from us forcing you to quit (forcing someone to quit is illegal), bad things are going to happen! So you must quit while you have the chance! Take our offer OR ELSE.

    Thursday’s email is exactly the same as Wednesday’s. Guess they ran out of ideas. Excitement came when I was on a meeting about it this afternoon and someone broke in to say a judge paused the program. Someone followed up “but it’s not extended?” “Guess we’ll find out.”

    So did we get an email on Friday, considering the program is paused? Of course we did. Since they are (mercifully) out of clever ideas to insult us, it’s just a retread of the other ones, this time letting us know the offer is extended until 11:59pm on Monday night. This after all the emails assured us the offer would not be extended. But I’m glad someone taught them professionalism. Now if someone could just teach them to move slower and not break things. If toddlers can learn it, so can they.

    Quick FAQs:

    Q: How is any of this legal?

    A: It’s not.

    Q: Is there a legal way they could have shrunk the federal government, if that was truly their goal?

    A: Yep, they could have just offered VERA from the start and a whole lot of people would have taken it. It has eligibility requirements, though, and it doesn’t let you be needlessly cruel to millions of people or close USAID. There are also Reduction In Force (RIF) but those have, drum roll please, an actual process that must be followed.

    Q: Is anyone taking this “deal”?

    A: We don’t know. Last week, I heard some fears from supervisors that 40-50% of GS-6 and below staff would take the deal, based on what they were hearing at their meetings. The logic is that GS-6 and below folks get paid so little, that if they could quit and stop working now and keep getting paid until September, and they were sure they could get another job in the meanwhile, that this would be a really good offer for those who wanted to take it. The changing of the “deal” this week to be “actually you quit now but you work until September, or we fire you tomorrow and you don’t get paid at all” might change things, it might not, but it’s unclear if you can take back that “resign” email you sent.

    There’s also the remote folks who truly cannot return to the office — and the offices also don’t have space for them. There’s talk of exemptions for remote work for folks they like or can be convinced to like (aka military spouses). But for many remote folks, this is a very scary situation: they took a remote job on purpose. The only way they are being allowed to see to not have to return to the office is to resign, either normally or through this process. And this process, in theory, might pay them (it won’t pay them).

    Q: Are people already being told that they can’t put a fork in this road?

    A: Yes, we’re starting to get some guidance from our leadership on the exempted professions, aka even if you told Elon Musk you’re quitting, you’re not actually quitting.

    Q: Do you, personally, believe anyone will get paid through this process?

    A: No.

    Reply ↓
    1. Watry*

      What does Musk get through this? Power, personal satisfaction, the ability to push his bigotry on everyone, money. I’ve seen speculation that targeting USAID in particular is about them having helped end apartheid in South Africa, so maybe also revenge.

      Reply ↓
      1. XX*

        He seems to me to be the kind of guy who wants to make an “impact”. He doesn’t particularly care if it’s a good or bad impact – actually I don’t think he’d define it on those terms. A good thing makes an impact, a bad thing doesn’t. Change is good, stasis is bad. (Unless of course it’s a stasis he likes, like apartheid.)

        Why work so much on electric cars? They’re different than all the other cars around them, and hey, the people buying them have high social value, so the change is extra-justified. But now everyone else is making electric cars, and he’s made the ultimate car (cybertruck) so there’s no more change to be made. So he lost interest in Tesla.

        Why go full-in on fake AI while also warning about the dire consequences of unrestrained AGI? Because it’s a change from the status quo, and it freaks a ton of people out so it’s doubly interesting, and he wants to be at the center of it all.

        Why go barreling into the federal government full-tilt? Because he doesn’t like it (they don’t let him Chanhe the World TM as much as he wants) and has to change it, because change is good. Pissing off a bunch of people who already hate him is a bonus.

        Hell, even the letter X. We use it as a stand-in, a “TBD”, and undefined variable. (Hence my name here.) “X” is the symbol of change, of opportunity yet to be defined. So he loves it.

        Reply ↓
      3. Slightly Less Evil Bunny*

        I’ve seen reports – have NO idea how credible they are, though – that USAID was investigating Starlink and Ukraine. ???

        As to the stated reason for all of this – the money saving – the math doesn’t seem to be mathing for me. They’re hoping to get 5-10 percent of the federal government (so, 230,000 to 300,000 max, depending on your starting count) to take this offer. They are claiming this would save fedgov $100 billion.

        That’s… one hell of a compensation package those 200,000+ folks must have. Or maybe I’m missing something in my ignorance. But it’s not like they’re showing their work on any of these calculations.

        Reply ↓
        1. Artemesia*

          USAID does things like assist in Ebola and Marburg outbreaks. By containing them, they don’t end up flying to and spreading in the US. Everything we do in ‘foreign aid’ is designed to be in our interest. Destroying this process just brings it closer to our door.

          The destruction of the FBI will predictably mean that terrorism will occur that could have been prevented. The Afghani who planned an election day terrorist attack including bombing was caught due to cooperation between FBI and other organizations; it takes a lot of effort to identify and deter this kind of madness. Crushing the FBI’s competence which is in full swing will almost certainly lead to more terrorist attacks and of course then oppression of people who had nothing to do with them.

          Reply ↓
      4. RedinSC*

        A former coworker’s daughter worked for Tesla, the battery division. She’s no longer there. BUT she said things worked great, until Musk would show up at the office. He was pure chaos. He’d just mess things up, create chaos and then lose interest and leave and things would get back on track.

        I can only hope that his attention span is small and he’ll wander away from messing the government up too much more.

        Reply ↓
    2. anonymous state employee*

      My guess (no better than anyone else’s though) is that there isn’t really a goal, per se.

      Elon Musk is that obnoxious kid who always breaks all his toys, and now he’s been handed the Federal government to play with.

      From his perspective,
      1) it’s all a game
      2) we’re all NPCs
      3) there aren’t any consequences for losing the game, so he might as well just mess around until he gets bored.

      My sad little sliver of hope through all this is that there are smarter members of the oligarch class who know they benefit from having a functioning, if not flourishing, working class, and are in a position to save the golden goose from immediate gutting? But I really don’t know.

      I’m in a red state, about 2 1/2 years from retirement eligibility, and I’m nervous AF. :( All this is so wildly infuriating to witness.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rage*

        I’m in a red state, too. I’m 50, and about to graduate with a Masters degree in Clinical Mental Health Counseling, with a focus on Play Therapy.

        1. My husband (of 1 month; we married 12/31/24) is a 100% disabled veteran. He receives full VA disability + SSDI. We do not know if he will receive either payment on March 1. I cannot support both of us on my salary alone at this time (we need to put HIS house on the market, and there are some reasons why we cannot do that just yet).

        2. The organization I work for derives the vast majority of its funding through various school districts throughout the nation, through the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). If the DOE is shuttered, there will be no payments to school districts for expenditures under IDEA, they will have no choice but to pull their students from our care. No students = no money. Which could mean that I am effectively out of a job in a few months, and a 90-year-old nonprofit org, dedicated to helping children with neurodevelopmental disorders, will cease to exist.

        3. My mother suffered a stroke last June, and still requires skilled nursing care. If Medicare funding is disrupted, she will be sent home from her current facility. My father is not strong enough to provide the necessary care for her to live at home (she has no movement on her right side), but there will be no other options. They live in a different state than me, we’re separated by about 1200 miles; it’s a state I do not ever want to live in again (even not taking into account the stuff that’s going on), but I suppose if we’re going to lose my job and my husband’s funding, selling my home and everything in it and moving back to my parents home to care for my mother is a dubious blessing.

        4. And, let’s be real – if Medicare & Medicaid are disrupted, there won’t be any funding for me to see clients once I graduate and receive my license (except the decently-wealthy), so I’ll be paying on student loans for a degree I cannot leverage. Fun times.

        Reply ↓
    3. Hlao-roo*

      There is a large contingent dutifully marking these emails as phishing; they are both correct and also probably pissing off their local IT office.

      I feel for the staff at the local IT offices but also the large contingent dutifully marking these emails as phishing warms my heart. If I were a fed, I would definitely be among them.

      Thank you for sharing this inside look at the madness.

      Reply ↓
    6. A federal employee*

      The emails are just so unprofessional.

      Up to this point, all official emails I got looked “official” and boring and lots look like a letter format in an email. And have official, professional subject lines.

      Also all previous official emails have never insulted my work and my role before. I’ve had to listen to leadership echo the DERP info, but they all start off gushing with how much we’re appreciated and how important our jobs are (which is the opposite of what every “fork in the road” email says).

      Reply ↓
    7. Head Sheep Counter*

      Visualize a greedy dirty racist toddler… and ta da… Elon Musk (that he has over 8 children boggles the mind).

      I’m fed-adjacent and I’m so terrified and upset for my colleagues and for our nation.

      Reply ↓
    8. Wellie*

      Fed here.
      I’ve actually never gotten any of these emails. My paranoia tells me that it’s bc I’m going to be fired as a DEI hire, anyway (female in a male dominated part of the gov’t). Oh wait, I just remembered, it’s not paranoia if they *are* out to get you.

      Reply ↓
    9. cleo*

      Anyone read Heather Cox Richardson’s substack? Her email on Feb 5 sent me down a partial rabbit hole reading about the apparent blueprint for Musk’s actions. It doesn’t address his motives, but it kind of, sort of explains his tactics.

      From Heather’s substack:
      ‘journalist Gil Duran of The Nerd Reich noted that a thinker popular with the technological elite in 2022 laid out a plan to gut the U.S. government and replace it with a dictatorship. This would be a “reboot” of the country, Curtis Yarvin wrote, and it would require a “full power start,” a reference to restarting a stalled starship by jumping to full power, which risks destroying the ship.’

      Reply ↓
      1. heyannonynonny*

        Also – this is a very well-used playbook for anti-democratic forces that has been tested extensively in other countries. It only seems novel because it’s currently happening in America. The goal is to ultimately shut down or neuter any institution which might challenge the people in charge. They are already suing media organisations with the aim of bankrupting them (using the Gawker model) the next step is to sell all major media outlets to those friendly to the administration or, failing that, arrest the heads of media organisations on fabricated charges. Foreign media outlets will then have correspondents expelled or have severe reporting restrictions placed upon them. Then they’ll arrest a few prominent critics of the administration and find reasons to hold them indefinitely. Then they’ll start on nonprofits. Any advocacy nonprofit that criticises the government will be declared a foreign agent and (eventually) shut down. Other nonprofits will have their activities severely restricted.

        These tactics are extremely successful and recently have been used in Russia, Turkey, Slovakia and Poland (though they managed to kick out their neo-fascists) among other countries. Read up on what happened in those countries and which tactics to resist were successful. Do not assume that the Constitution will protect you, and above all, do not assume that there will be free and fair elections in your country, at least on the federal level, again for a very, very long time.

        Reply ↓
    10. 3-Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

      Elon has plenty of motivation.

      1) He likes to smash things and get headlines.

      2) He stands to benefit from suppressing other companies angling for government contracts.

      3) He stands to benefit from Russia and China, both of whom he does business with and both of whom also benefit from a weakened America.

      4) He’s an accelerationist – he literally believes that if he breaks enough things there will be a new world order and that he will on top of it. That’s behind all the “there will be short term pain but everything will be better” assurances he keeps giving out.

      Reply ↓
      1. pally*

        Just wondering: Is Twitter “better” now?

        I’m not on Twitter er, X, so I don’t know.

        Bet it’s not.

        Just disgusted at this whole thing. Angry at the irreparable harm this is causing a whole lot of good people. This is unnecessary.

        Reply ↓
    11. JustMyImagination*

      What else does Musk get through this? He has SpaceX and the Starlight satellites waiting in the wings for when the FAA and NASA get privatized. Then his companies can do what they want and he doesn’t need to abide by any pesky regulations. Because what future government makes him angry by enforcing regulations if he can turn around and shut down air travel or government communications?

      Reply ↓
    12. Jules the 3rd*

      Thank you very much for this, it’s fascinating, in a ‘watching the car crash’ way, and you and all the fed workers have my deepest sympathy.

      Reply ↓
    13. Another Fed reporting in*

      My federal department (maybe?) has been sending parallel emails to the OPM fork stuff from “Message from the Assistant Secretary for Administration” from the email address “MessagefromtheAssistantSecretaryforAdministration (at) do[x].gov” Now, this looks made up but it is, or was, a legit email. Up til Jan 22 it was used to communicate things like upcoming federal holidays, reminders about federal assistance programs, and normal stuff like that. AND, they were ALWAYS signed by the actual person in that role. Since then we’ve had four of these emails (regarding the new exec orders and the forking mess), all with zero header and no signature. Meanwhile we’ve had exactly one (1) broadcast email from the new Secretary of [Department] and it was as tone-deaf as you can imagine – even the words used were just parroting a recent prez press conference.

      I cannot stress enough how these emails are no longer signed by anyone, and there’s no identifying content of any kind that would indicate they are legitimate. There’s zero accountability – it is exactly like this email has been hacked or spoofed in support of the illegal actions being levied at federal employees. After so many phishing trainings and tests and actual phishing that occurs, it is completely reasonable to report any and all of these as phishing/spoofing.

      Reply ↓
    14. Rhymetime*

      Thank you so much for what is no doubt extensive time to share your updates on the mess that is federal government employment right now. I work for a nonprofit whose role is supporting national parks, and the details you’re sharing provide helpful insights for me to understand what my federal colleagues are going through right now. While my organization is doing our best to step up where we can, there’s nothing like just telling my NPS colleagues that I care about what they’re experiencing. I’m thinking of you and everyone you know, and this and future updates in the Friday open thread are very appreciated.

      Reply ↓
    15. anonymous VA fed*

      The exemption list for the VA was distributed today, and it is seemingly most of the VA. Everything from security to medical providers/therapists, telephone operators, maintenance, food service… I don’t know of anyone in the VA system outside of maybe admin and some very small specialty fields who would be able to take the deferred resignation even if they wanted to.

      Reply ↓
      1. A federal employee*

        That is absolutely incorrect. Didn’t see anyone from VA Central Office or OIT on that list. There may be doctors but their IT support will be barely manned. And maybe that’s a goal cause they can replace with their buddies. (We’ve seen how slowly the Cerner transition is going.)

        Basically front line services remains, but many support offices will be decimated. How well can the doctors see patients if many support services are severely under-resourced?

        Reply ↓
    16. A federal employee*

      Also, hilariously, my normal VA News email for veterans (marketing and spammy) to my personal gmail address was tagged by Google as “ looks dangerous. The sender’s account may be compromised.” I had to agree with google about that.

      Reply ↓
    17. Glazed Donut*

      Here’s my wondering: I know they really want everyone to just quit and to make their lives miserable and chaotic to cause that.
      But, if that doesn’t happen and they fire everyone, won’t they have to issue WARN notices? (I realize we are in a time when laws don’t really seem to exist so maybe I’ve answered my own question here.) For people at USAID, wouldn’t firing all of them be illegal for this and other reasons?

      Reply ↓
    18. LadyKelvin*

      My line office is taking a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach to all of this. We are a very small line office in a remote place and are hoping to be ignored – although our agency is one that is often targeted by the administration. Basically we are asking no clarifying questions so that we don’t get any answers about what is or isn’t allowed. Our leadership told us that “these are the new rules, I will not be checking to see if you are following them” and have been actively working to wipe any DEI/EEJ indications from anything we have worked on. My mentoring program facilitated by the now-defunct DEI team, is just a new hire welcoming program, etc. I will say, though, I love my job and believe in our mission, and for the first time in my life I was anxious about going back to work Sunday night because I was afraid to open my email to find what new fresh hell awaits. It is sobering.

      Reply ↓
    19. Goldenrod*

      My god, what a shitshow. Thank you for sharing your firsthand experience with us. My prayers are with you.

      I keep wondering if Trump truly is a Russian mole, and that’s why he (and Elon) are hellbent on destroying and dismantling the United States government.

      Reply ↓
  14. Tea Monk*

    I have a problem- I’d like to interview for a new job, but I’m not great at my old one so it’s hard to think of things to put on my resume. I want to put a good spin like ” Oh I learned a lot, blah blah” in interviews, but it’s hard to get an interview when you were average. Not the worst employee by any means but not really a standout performer

    Reply ↓
    1. EngGirl*

      You put whatever you can as far as high points/metrics. I would put emphasis on things like being “reliable and solid”

      Also are you looking for a more lateral move or to move up? If you’re looking to move up right away it will probably be harder, but if you’re looking laterally you can explain some of this in a cover letter/personal statement and expand in the interview. Focus on the differences between the company you’re currently at and the new company and how you could see yourself performing well there. Like if you’re not a standout employee because you’re 1 of 15 people in a role and you’re rank is like 6/15, but the new company is smaller you can say that you’d like the opportunity to have more of an impact within your team. Also mentioning things like limited growth opportunities where you are.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tea Monk*

        Lateral. My biggest weakness at work is that people simply don’t do what I tell them to do. My strong points are things that no one thinks are important like ” helps out coworkers ” or ” helps train the newbies” or ” is professional to people all the time” or “does what my boss says” lol. People would scoff and say everyone does those things, but there’s actually a need for people who do those things.

        Reply ↓
        2. TheGirlintheAfternoon*

          It sounds like your current job doesn’t value your strong points, but I assure you, MANY places will. Good luck!

          Reply ↓
        3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          Just personally, I’m curious about why you think people don’t do what you tell them to. We’ve seen many letters over the years of people trying to deal with employee issues, but being unable to because they don’t have the authority to hand out any kind of consequences and/or will be undermined by their own boss. Is any of that the case with you?

          For the resume, I’d include things that the team did that you were involved in. Like if the team has done important projects, talk about the good things the project brought and your part in the project.

          Also, I think plenty of places will value having someone who’s good at training new people. Like, in your [amount of time] there, you’ve trained and/or mentored [number of staff]. It also implies that you’re good enough at the job that your management has decided that other people should be learning from you how to do theirs!

          My current workplace has an unofficial “no jerks” rule (it’s awesome) and would appreciate someone who lets us know that they’re a person who colleagues feel comfortable asking for support.

          Good luck with the search!

          Reply ↓
          1. Tea Monk*

            I don’t manage anyone but I have to get people outside the organization and inside the program to give me documents, information and comply with rules. And no I can’t hand down consequences to anyone nor do I have the skill to get people to do what I want without having that power.

            It’s more informal mentorship. Newer employees tend to ask me a lot of questions so I answer them.

            Reply ↓
  15. Fraction or Whole*

    Does anyone have experience with fractional roles? Multiple people have suggested that I start being a Fractional CTO. I’m finding wildly different descriptions both from the people suggesting it and online, so I’d love to hear some real world experience with a fractional anything – either working with them or filling the role themselves.

    I’m very intruiged by this – I’ve been offered the role of startup CTO before and pushed to be a founder from several people because my background ocillates between being a developer and manager or director; I’ve been a founding engineer and worked at multiple startups; and I typically get stuck doing most of the product work because I wear so many hats. But I no idea what I’d be signing up for or what people are expecting or how to even get started!

    Reply ↓
    1. anonymous secunit*

      I briefly worked for a fractional security officer company. My understanding of it is for smaller companies, you can’t afford to hore a full time CSO, so you hire a fractional one. They are a fractional CIO to a bunch of companies. The one I worked with was kind of like an agency, all the CSOs had a set of companies they managed.

      They had some companies where they were like the security equivalent of a lawyer on retainer, and others for specific projects, like getting customized security policies set up to meet legal requirements, securing a new server they were spinnong up, auditing security practices etc.

      I was in an admin role and applied directly to the company. Some of the CSOs were independent freelancers before joining, or till did some consulting on the side.It sounds like there are multiple models for this kind of thing. Hope this is useful.

      Reply ↓
  16. Amber Rose*

    I have tried over and over to get HR the information they need without compromising my own role, and every time they ignore the emails where I try to compromise and then send emails days later saying I’m not giving them what they need. This latest one said “managers are frustrated.”

    So I said in my email, I’m frustrated too because I’ve reached out multiple times with offers for compromise and offering data and got no response, and I’m at a loss for what I’m doing wrong here. But actually, I know what I’m doing “wrong.” Previous Manager did no program management because they freely used her as admin for HR 8 hours a day. That’s why this program is broken and has failed the last two audits.

    I resent that I was hired on to fix a broken system alone, and I’m also expected to be an admin assistant for HR which has a 4 person team. There’s no way I can win this. Either I do as I’m told, fail my own job, and get fired, or don’t do as I’m told, get constant emails attacking my failures in HR… and get fired.

    They want to have a meeting next week with all 4 HR people, me and my boss. How do I explain to him that this isn’t a meeting, it’s an ambush?

    Complicating factor: one of the HR people is my boss’s wife and the HR director is related to the CEO. This company is a disaster.

    Should I just quit? Should I ask my boss to just let me go so I can get EI? I don’t know wtf to do here but my stress levels are through the roof.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      If you can afford to quit and you think not doing so immediately will jeopardize your mental health, then quit. Otherwise, I would do your best to frame this as 100% their issue and make them pay to force you out if they’re convinced you’re incompetent. Use the meeting to the best of your ability to lay out for everyone at the same time why what they’re expecting is unreasonable and your efforts/suggestions to find a functional solution. If they try to berate you, be clear that you hear their frustration, but it doesn’t change what options are realistically available, and/or that they don’t get to talk to you like that. Either they’ll back down when they realize bullying won’t work, you’ll be out of there with severance and/or unemployment, or they’ll prove they need you more than you need them by keeping you around even though you’re supposedly the worst, and you can just do the bare minimum until you find something better.

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        I could quit, but I’ve only got enough savings to last an extremely frugal 10 months or so.

        I’m in this mess because I refuse to let them railroad me into work I have no business doing (HR work, which requires legal knowledge I don’t have), and have now made a solid enemy of the HR director. I haven’t even made it out of my first three months yet so it’s easier for them to get rid of me, but I don’t know if that’ll impact my ability to get unemployment benefits.

        My boss is nominally on my side, but I know he is sick of hearing about this and wishes I would just be quiet and not make a fuss.

        Reply ↓
    2. Stevie*

      It sounds like you and everyone else need to get on the same page on what your job description and expectations include. I don’t totally understand the dynamics here, but if it were me I would start by having an in-person conversation with my boss outlining my concerns and why I think they are happening, and proposing a potential solution (Perhaps HR needs to hire their own dedicated Admin or something). I would say don’t quite (yet) unless you truly are miserable and don’t see potential for improvement.

      Reply ↓
    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Are you union, can you take a union rep to meeting with you?

      For the meeting itself, try to game it a little, its not you vs HR with boss as witness, it’s HR/you/boss together vs the problem. That mental shift can really help outcomes. “I’m so glad we’re able to meet all in person, I really want to get this resolved…”

      It’s unclear to me what your main issue is. If it’s not enough time to do repeated HR requests, make like a color coded breakdown of your day/week. These are main job tasks A B C D E, I do daily/weekly and they take this much time. HR request X, Y and Z would take this much time. Which should I prioritize, can we reduce HR request frequency, can someone else take on Y and Z, etc type questions.

      If your issue is they’re asking for data that’s not legal for you to pull, or possible to pull bring the documentation. We are unable to generate X and Y, here’s how the data looks on my end. We are not allowed by legal regulations to generate Z, here’s the reference to compliance documents.

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        Not union. I have made a solid enemy out of HR so it’s hard not to see this as a them problem.

        So, here’s the thing. I do most of the work regarding worker injuries and worker’s comp cases. I forward them what I work on, but HR wants me to go into every single case every single day, look for new documents, and then email them. All in separate emails according to case so they can file their emails properly. I’m also supposed to generate hard copies for physical filing. They also want me to advise them on who should be paid and for what days, which I solidly refuse to do because I have zero experience with anything payroll and I won’t be held accountable for being wrong.

        I’m a certified professional, not a friggin admin. They can pull their own damn reports, they have access. They have more access, since HR gets to see more private information than me. And there’s FOUR of them.

        Reply ↓
        1. Analystical Tree Hugger*

          “I have made a solid enemy out of HR so it’s hard not to see this as a them problem.”

          First, from what you’ve written, it seems like HR *is* the problem. Or maybe, HR plus the company leadership. So, can you let yourself recognize that in your own mind?

          Second, as Captain Awkward is known to say, reasons are for reasonable people. These are NOT reasonable people.

          Third, given the above, THIS IS NOT ON YOU TO FIX. Honestly, I think the outcome to aim for is that you mutually agree to separate and the company agrees in writing not to contest unemployment. Possibly talk with an lavor lawyer to see if there’s a way to make this legally binding.

          Reply ↓
          1. Amber Rose*

            Yeah. As of today I’ve been iced out of incident reports. HR seems to have instructed the managers and leads that only they get all the reports, and then I get them when they deign to forward them along.

            This isn’t the flex that they seem to think it is, but since my presence here is now harming workers, I’m going to see if we can part ways amicably.

            Reply ↓
    4. NaoNao*

      I doubt the boss is going to change or do anything if they “understand” it’s an ambush. You can’t get people to understand something that doesn’t benefit them. If HR is boss’s wife and besties with the CEO, etc, you are outnumbered and the attitude I’d take is “I need help understanding how best I can help you. Right now I’m struggling and I don’t want to be.”

      I’d actually go into that meeting with the attitude of “what’s the company’s priority and focus, and how can we use my limited time and specific skills/background/certs/whatever to best achieve that?” Focus on “given that giving X information to HR is going to cause [whatever issues], what’s the best work-around here?”

      But also…I hope this doesn’t come off harsh but didn’t you just get this job recently after your previous job also had a super-tangled and extremely stressful set up that caused tons of anguish and repeated no-win situations? Or am I mistaken? It seems like the job-picking radar is a little “off” there if this is the case, or maybe the role/industry itself isn’t the right match if the jobs keep wind up being these no-win Catch-22.

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        My last job was great for 8 years and became a problem in the last 2 when I picked up a bully and was fired for complaining about harassment. So yeah, it was tangled and stressful, but for a different reason. Thanks for the victim blaming though. Obviously I’m the problem.

        Reply ↓
    5. Ama*

      I’m so sorry, this sounds incredibly frustrating and stressful. If you don’t want to just quit (wouldn’t blame you), you could potentially treat this meeting with HR as a fact finding mission.

      Basically what you’re trying to get out of this conversation is for HR to either agree you can be left alone to do your actual job or admit, in front of your boss, that they’d rather you spend your time being their admin rather than keeping the program from failing the next audit. How your boss reacts to what they say will tell you a lot about whether it’s worth continuing to fight this battle or to cut your losses. You might want to bring print outs of emails if you want to make sure people can’t twist your words or misrepresent their own when recounting past conversations.

      Good luck, whatever you decide.

      Reply ↓
    6. fhqwhgads*

      Hold out. Make them fire you if that’s what they want, then you get unemployment. They hired you to get compliant right? So every single answer reflects back on that. Don’t be rude, but don’t sugarcoat anything.

      Reply ↓
  17. RF*

    My team at work just launched a search to fill an open permanent position (the incumbent left last summer but upper administration is sloooooow here). This is very exciting, but puts me in a bit of a pickle. Two members of my team are in temporary positions (one is a contractor whose term is up soon, and the other is a graduate student who will be graduating this spring), and so they’re applying for the open position. I think both of them would be great in the role, and I expect that both of them will be asking me for help with their applications (cover letter feedback and that sort of thing) – I’m not on the search committee, so I’m not bound by any sort of restrictions to what I can tell them. If they do ask me for help, should I tell each one that the other has asked me for help? I don’t want to discourage either one or give the impression that I think one of them is a stronger candidate (they really are equally compelling candidates!), but I think that transparency in these kinds of things is essential. How would y’all proceed in this situation?

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      I honestly DON’T think you’re honor-bound to transparency here. You don’t have to tell either one that you’re helping the other. What you SHOULD make sure you do is offer both of them the same kinds, and amount, of help. Spend the same amount of time reviewing stuff. Do the same services for both.

      Reply ↓
    2. Qwerty*

      Do not tell them that you are helping both of them, they need their conversations with you about their application to be confidential. Just make sure to be measured but supportive during the process.

      I would also check with the hiring team before helping either of them to verify what you can help with. There may be concerns about appearance of favoritism (example – what if only one person asks for your help?)

      Reply ↓
      1. Apex Mountain*

        In this case, if only one person asked for help imo that’s a pretty strong mark in favor of that candidate. Not taking advantage of an obvious resource is telling imo

        Reply ↓
      2. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Was going to say something similar. You can’t be the person who reveals to a staff member that another staff member is applying. One way would be to say that you think they and Other Staff would both be good, you’re encouraging both to apply, and would be open to supporting them in the process.

        But there’s nothing wrong with saying nothing and just making sure to treat them fairly. It wouldn’t be reasonable for either of them to expect that helping them means you’re not helping the other, too.

        Reply ↓
  18. BOK*

    I’m being groomed for a project management position, and am leading projects as they come through as part of my training program for this position. I have been doing parts of this job for years due to understaffing and covered my boss’s job leading some high-profile projects for a couple weeks last year while he was on vacation. I’m supposed to be leading another project now, which is in the beginning stages. I feel fully capable to do this, but my boss can be so helpful as to be overbearing. He very much likes to be in control, and I’m already feeling some micromanagement from him as he sees emails come through, if I don’t respond exactly immediately. Does anyone have tips for this type of situation, on how to navigate a project I am capable of leading, while also making sure my boss is in the loop without just handing him the reins?

    Reply ↓
    1. Molly the cat*

      If you and he both know you’re competent, and he’s coming from a place of good intentions and trying to be helpful, he might respond to a conversation where you tell him something along the lines of “hey, the thing I need your help with is being given some space to make decisions/lead on my own”. That could include specifics like “you’ve been responding to emails very quickly–could you try to leave those alone for X hours to give me a chance to respond?” or pointing out that him responding first makes it harder for people to see you as the actual leader on the project.

      I’ve been on what feels like the other side of your situation, where I’m the project lead and have been trying to step back and let other people take ownership of things, and it can feel a lot like I’m dropping the ball/being lazy if I don’t jump right in to help! The explicit framing of “I’m trying to give this person an opportunity to learn and grow” makes it much much easier.

      Reply ↓
    2. Stuart Foote*

      I had a boss like this–as he saw I was competent to do the job and preferred a little less involvement he backed off quite a bit. Hopefully this happens in your situation as well.

      Reply ↓
    3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      One option is to ask him – with genuine curiosity – why he’s responding to those e-mails before you have a chance to. I mean, maybe there’s a reason and learning it will help you. My org can be a bit weird about communications between areas involving people at the same level in the hierarchy. So if I were to get an e-mail from a Director in another division (even if that division was part of the project), often, the response is expected to go back via my own director. Maybe there’s something like that going on.

      If it’s what you suspect – he’s more involved than he needs to be – he will hopefully clue in that he can back off. If not, establishing that there isn’t a good reason he’s jumping in will help you out in having conversations later about how you’ve got it handled and are ready to step forward more fully into the role.

      Reply ↓
    4. Molly the cat*

      Oh also, one thing that’s been helpful for me is to have explicit conversations about “here’s where I trust your judgement completely, here’s the kinds of things where I’d want you to run something by me or get my input”.

      Reply ↓
  19. CherryBlossom*

    How do I pass time at work when my options are very limited?

    For context, I’m a temp that was brought on for a specific project, the project wrapped, and yet I am still here. I’ve spoken to my manager about what else I can take on, but while she occasionally gives me small tasks, I’ve mostly been told to be “on standby”. For what, I don’t know, but frankly I don’t want to push it too hard. I still need the money and don’t want them to realize I’m no longer needed. So I’ve been keeping my head down and just trying to pass the time. That’s where my question comes in: how do I do that?

    Here’s the list of things I can’t do that I would normally lean on: read a book/magazine, work on puzzles/crosswords/sudoku, job hunt, general web-browsing, listen to audiobooks or music, watch youtube/netflix, decorate/organize my workspace, or anything that involves me being away from my desk for too long.

    Some of this is because any non-work website is blocked (I’m shocked AAM is allowed), and some of this is because my desk is in a highly visible area to internal and external clients so I can’t look at anything beside my computer. And while I adore AAM, there’s only so much diving into the archives I can do. Help!

    Reply ↓
    1. Tradd*

      Can you dig into your word processing/spreadsheet/email software and learn more about how they work/expand your knowledge? If you use MS Office, is the MS support website allowed so you can look things up?

      Reply ↓
    2. Recovering Perfectionist*

      Can you take an online class? There’s plenty of free ones out there and pretty reputable too, and you could even do something related to your work area to keep it work appropriate.

      Reply ↓
      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Was going to suggest this. I did a lot of that when I was a new intern and they didn’t have much for me to do at the start. Where I live, I can access LinkedIn Learning for free through my library. EdX also has some good free courses.

        Alternately, start writing short stories? Research a topic that’s of interest and write a summary of what you find?

        Reply ↓
    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Read the help manuals for all the software on your computer, this is a skill set you can learn and take with you to the future. Ask if they can unblock a site for a course or training you’d like to learn. Write up documentation for the project you just completed.

      Reply ↓
      1. RedinSC*

        This, and also, are there process documents for the things in your office, even if they’re small things that you did.

        Processing incoming mail
        1. do x
        2. do y
        3. you know what comes next

        Create those process documents. They’re super helpful and are things that often fall by the wayside when people don’t have the time to do them

        Reply ↓
      2. Agnes Grey*

        Can you get to your library system’s website? You may be able to access LinkedIn Learning or something similar through them (or language lessons or at least ebooks).

        Reply ↓
      3. CherryBlossom*

        I would love to, but all those sites are blocked. They wouldn’t unlock google for me to video-call with outside vendors, so I highly doubt they’d unlock something less work-related for me.

        As for the project I did, it was a one-off thing that I actually wasn’t very involved in. I was essentially an extra set of hands to very basic things like make PowerPoints or call vendors to ask a pre-approved list of questions. There’s really nothing for me to document, since a lot of steps didn’t involve me.

        Reply ↓
      1. CherryBlossom*

        Thumb-drives aren’t allowed. I’m not too-tech savvy so I don’t know what they have to block it, but a little pop-up loads and logs that you attempted to connect a thumb-drive. It’s really locked down tight in this office.

        Reply ↓
    5. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Can you write in a notebook, or read from something that looks like a notebook? Or send yourself something to read on your computer/from your email that looks like something for work?

      Reply ↓
      1. CherryBlossom*

        Thank you for suggesting the notebook! I do have a little company branded notebook that I can write in. It might not kill 8 hours, but it will definitely help.

        Reply ↓
    6. Charlotte Lucas*

      Are there any online trainings you can take? If the company has an intranet, that could be an interesting read (especially if you might want to pursue a permanent position there).

      Reply ↓
      1. CherryBlossom*

        There is an intranet, but as a temp, I’m locked down into only a handful of pages; only those related to the project I was brought on for. Also, they’ve made it clear upfront that I’m only here for this project and there is no permanent role.

        They just haven’t gotten around to cutting me loose yet, and I’m hoping to stay and fly under the radar for as long as possible.

        Reply ↓
    7. Molly the cat*

      Are headphones of any kind a non-starter? I like Shokz OpenFit earbuds a LOT for being very comfortable without blocking my ear canals at all, and IMO they give off a more approachable, “customer service rep bluetooth headset” vibe than over-the-ear headphones or something like airpods/wired earbuds.

      Also, is knitting an option (or crochet, or cross-stitch)? You can do that sitting at your desk, while mostly still looking at your computer. It always depends on your workplace, but I work in a relatively stuffy (military-adjacent) industry and I haven’t had issues with people reacting to knitting as disrespectful or “goofing off”.

      Reply ↓
      1. CherryBlossom*

        No headphones, no crafting of any kind :( this is a very strict/formal setting, even by the standards of the industry it’s in. Essentially, even if there’s nothing for me to do, I have to look like I’m working.

        Someone above suggested writing in a notebook, and so far that’s been working for me!

        Reply ↓
        1. Molly the cat*

          Ouch :( and I’m guessing “hide the earbuds under untucked long hair” isn’t an option if it’s that strict and formal.

          Maybe this is silly, but if the notebook is helping so much, that gives me another idea. What if you started memorizing poetry (or song lyrics, or anything else you want)? If you can get away with printed papers on the desk, you could bring in a copy of The Raven or something and work on reciting it in your head and looking at the paper less and less. You could cross out words as you go and that would also look like work, and once it’s done you could get a few minutes of less-bored out of it even if you were, like, a royal guard or living sculpture whose entire job is to stand perfectly still for hours.

          Reply ↓
        2. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          Damn, that sucks. At the internship I mentioned above, I got very good at pretending to read documents on my computer while listening to podcasts. Long hair made it a lot less obvious that I was wearing earbuds. I wish that was an option for you!

          Maybe learn to meditate?

          Reply ↓
    8. Analystical Tree Hugger*

      It sounds like you have access to a computer and office software. If so, can you make up projects that will help you develop skills? To be clear, not projects related to this job. But, at home (since you can’t access most websites at work), look up lists about “advanced tricks in [Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Outlook]”, copy them into your notebook, and bring the notebook to work to work on it.

      Some initial ideas:
      *Excel: Setup a budget tracking spreadsheet, automate subtotals by different categories via SUMIF, PivotTables for per quarter expenses, and graphs. Make up the data or use real data from work or home.

      *PowerPoint: Take the data from the above and design a clean, professional presentation of what you’ve discovered. Where could you be cutting costs? What’s surprising about the patterns? What’s the case for changing or not? Explore slide transitions, setting up templates, and SmartArt.

      *Word: Mail Merge (for letters, for labels, etc.), setup the database and the different fields you can use. Design a flyer, report, book cover or infographic (ugly, but cheap and fast…sometimes that’s what’s needed). Maybe for a it’s a fake party invite or a fake product or a fake company. We joke at AAM about Teapots, Inc. and Otter Cuddlers ‘R’ Us and setting up a company with Alison as our benevolent overlord…can that be an inspiration?

      Reply ↓
    9. Not a Vorpatril*

      You say you’re not tech-savvy, but have you tried poking around in Excel/Google Sheets, similar to what other people said? Just learning how to make spreadsheets, how to make the program do things for you automatically; make a list of numbers in a column so each row has its’ own number, keep track of your expenditures and figure out how to average them, group by date/type, etc, maybe try and write down a recipe ingredient list and figure out how to make it double, quadruple, or halve all the components at once, for example. Useful skill, and can take a fair amount of time poking about to get it to do what you want.

      Reply ↓
  20. Elsewise*

    I started a new job about two years ago. A year ago, my boss told me that she really wanted me to take a promotion (think Level 1 to Level 2). I applied, didn’t get it. It was pretty disheartening because leadership (not me, just my boss) had been talking like I was definitely going to be in that position, and it had spread throughout the department. The person who got the job ahead of me is lovely, but I was fending off “wait, I thought you were going to be the new Level 2” messages for weeks.

    Well, eventually my boss managed to push through creating a new Level 2 position for me, and I moved up. I’ve been in that role for just under four months now. Last month, a position a step above (Assistant Manager) opened up. I didn’t apply because I was so new, but the hiring manager reached out to me after the job was closed and said that she hadn’t seen my application, if I wasn’t interested it was fine, but if I was interested I should definitely apply. I talked to my boss, who had been the one to turn down my original promotion, and she said I should definitely go for it. So I did.

    I have a final interview today. Absolutely baffling that in less than half a year I’ve gone from not getting a promotion I was really counting on to being asked to apply for a promotion I’d never considered.

    Since it’s so unexpected I haven’t told my friends or family, just my partner and one coworker. So no real question, I just needed to talk to someone about it, I guess. Wish me luck!

    Reply ↓
    2. JustMyImagination*

      Best of luck! Similar happened to me last year. I applied for a promotion that had felt like a sure thing from my manager and they went with an external hire. The external person didn’t work out and I ended up with it anyways. I’ve also been tapped for special training and development as I was tagged a “high potential employee”. It definitely makes your head spin! I like to think that handling the rejection well made people see me more professionally and capable of handling higher stress situations.

      Reply ↓
  21. Tradd*

    Customs broker here. How are my fellow brokers/supply chain/trade compliance folks in the US doing after tariff whiplash this week? I spent all Saturday closely watching the news. Saw it went into effect at midnight Tuesday so we would have ONE business day to prepare. Logged on Sunday afternoon and worked 5 hours cranking out customs clearances. That helped so much for Monday. We would have ordinarily done these clearances later in the week, but they had to get done by end of business Monday so they wouldn’t get hit with new 10% on goods from China.

    I had lots of customers asking for lists of HS codes affected. It took them a bit to understand this was a blanket tariff, unlike the 2018 tariffs when a number of products, such as toys, were not hit with the 25% extra.

    Things have now largely calmed down. If you have access to the Wall Street Journal, they did an excellent article on the role of customs brokers. Good explanation of what we do.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/tariff-turmoil-elevates-customs-brokers-to-star-role-in-supply-chains-eb8ab1a8?st=iZHzuz&reflink=article_copyURL_share

    Reply ↓
    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      Not in that industry but my side hustle has been stock options and swing trading and I did well in past years, but since November, keep having my gains wiped out every time you know who tweets

      I’m so disgusted today, I lose $3K in two minutes today because more tariff talk. Worse timing for me since I am now unemployed so it would be nice to have my usual side income for food

      My stance is, either do it or not. Is it just constant rumors and changes on your end? I can’t imagine.

      I was disgusted last week at the henny-penny sky is falling rhetoric then them swooping in to save the day on Monday. But all they did was postpone whatever tariff chat that was going to happen.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tradd*

        Yeah, I’m not happy with how my 401K is doing either.

        Currently I don’t have any stuff with Mexico and Canadian stuff is limited to a few occasional truck border clearances. I had one Tuesday from Canada that the importer got hit with the extra 10% China duty on (35% total) but that’s because the stuff he was importing from Canada was made in China.

        We were keeping an ear on the news (I usually have a local very mainstream AM talk radio station on) and the changes with the Canada/Mexico tariffs being delayed a month at the last minute was just wild. We were trying to get clearances done on all the shipments from China we could, while dealing with many emails about the increases.

        Reply ↓
        1. Busy Middle Manager*

          I feel your stress and annoyance, just from a different place. I can’t not invest/trade forever while I wait for this to pan out. Or maybe I have to? I can live off of ramen and water I guess, lest our leader have to stop flip flopping.

          Monday really bothered me. Trade war. Well, maybe not, just forget it. Now he’s complaining the EU doesn’t import “enough” so they need tariffs. Today. Oh wait, now next week. So now this is hanging over our heads another weekend. TBH it’s all I thought about last weekend. Now we’re doing it again I guess. Then he swooped like a hero and fixed the self-inflicted problem. Not realizing people like us are not actually happy with the non-solution. I can’t mentally or financially do this every week

          Reply ↓
  22. MissGirl*

    I know I’m overthinking this and there is no one answer for everyone, but I’m curious what other people have done when communicating health issues at work.

    I was recently diagnosed with Stage 0 Breast Cancer, meaning it’s highly treatable and very early. With treatment, I have the same chances of dying of this as the average woman who’s never been diagnosed. As of right now, only my managers know of my diagnosis since I was out for testing and surgery. I did my recovery over Christmas so no one else needed to know and we’re all remote.

    However, I’m about to start radiation for the next four weeks. There’s a strong chance I’ll have some exhaustion, and I’ll also have daily appointments. I may need to dip out here and there without much notice. Again, managers are well aware and we’re all remote.

    I think I need to communicate something to the stakeholders I support and to the two coworkers who may be picking up the slack if I’m out. I’m more of an open person and it feels weird to me to be cagey by saying generic health appointments. It also feels weird to share I have cancer when it’s so minor, like I’m fishing for attention. I’m not even comfortable saying that to myself, honestly. I want to be matter-of-fact about it all and tell people what’s going on, but I don’t know if that’s TMI or if I just say, “I’m undergoing medical treatment for the next month and may be out occasionally.”

    Reply ↓
    1. londonedit*

      It’s totally up to you, but I think your ‘I’m undergoing medical treatment for the next month and may be out occasionally’ is absolutely fine if that’s what you want to say. If anyone asks any follow-up questions, or even says ‘Oh dear, are you OK?’, you can always just say ‘Yes, thanks – I’ve just got a few appointments coming up to get it all sorted’. If you do decide to mention cancer, you could frame it as ‘Yes, I’m fine – unfortunately I’ve been diagnosed with cancer but it’s all very early and very treatable so I just need a bit of time out over the next month to get the treatment sorted and then I’ll be fine’. But don’t feel pressure to do that if you don’t want to – so much about cancer can end up being managing other people’s reactions to it, and it’s fine not to want to do that when you’re trying to deal with it yourself!

      Reply ↓
      1. MsM*

        Agreed, but if you do want to disclose, don’t feel like you need to minimize what’s going on. It’s cancer! The fact it’s easily treatable and the prognosis is good doesn’t make that any less scary.

        Reply ↓
        1. Anon for this one*

          Disagree. I’m Stage IV. Stage zero may be scary but please don’t minimize the distinction between “we caught this early, it’s 100% treatable” and “this will kill you, let’s see how much time we can buy”. One of them is in fact less scary than the other.

          Reply ↓
    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      You could say something like, “I’m dealing with some health issues right now. I should be just fine, but I’ll need to undergo medical treatments for the next month.” That way you don’t get people speculating about, say, IVF treatments because you’re stating it’s for health issues. But you avoid talking about cancer specifically, and you assure them you’re pretty much OK.

      Best wishes for all the treatments to go well and for long-term health!

      Reply ↓
    3. CherryBlossom*

      “I’m undergoing medical treatment for the next month and may be out occasionally.” is perfectly acceptable! Don’t think of it as being cagey, more like you’re sparing people the details. Especially if it’s easily treatable, it’ll be better for everyone’s peace of mind.

      Another factor to consider is that people will treat you differently once the hear the Big C-Word, no matter how much you downplay it. Science communicator Hank Green, who also had an easily treatable cancer, mentioned that some colleagues and friends learned he had Cancer, and essentially started treating him like he was terminal, even though he was expected to make a full recovery (and thankfully since has!). Just another angle to consider when deciding how much to tell people.

      Reply ↓
    4. SunnyShine*

      I left for weekly appointments for allergy shots. I was open with my boss. For everyone else, I just did my regular out of office message. “I’m out at 2pm and will return tomorrow at 8am”.

      You don’t need to go into detail with stakeholders. Co-workers you aren’t obligated either. If they are going to cover for you, you could give them a heads up if you want. “Hey, I’ll be dipping in and out over the next four weeks for medical appointments. Just a heads up.” or you can say “Hey, our boss knows. I just wanted to give you a heads up that I’ll be dipping in and out due to personal reasons.”

      Generally, if you seem more tired, your coworkers probably will be able to understand it’s related to your appointments.

      I hope everything goes well. :)

      Reply ↓
    5. Somehow I Manage*

      I was diagnosed with a form of cancer a number of years ago. It was A THING and people knew. That was fine. I’m good now. But what I want to tell you is this: Fairly recently, I was telling my doctor about something that was bothering me about my ongoing treatment. I downplayed the seriousness of it, and told her I knew others had if far worse than me, so it felt weird complaining. She told me that I didn’t need to minimize my own experience or compare it to the experience of others.

      So don’t minimize your experience because they caught yours early and you’re going to make a full recovery (AWESOME!!). If you want to tell people, you can tell them that it is cancer, it was caught early, and now you’re just doing a bit of maintenance work to ensure you’re good to go.

      Or, simply saying that you have some treatments and over the next month, you may be out occasionally and may be a little more tired is totally fine too. If you want to confide with a couple people privately, you can do that. Or not. Up to you.

      But don’t not say something just because it is “minor.”

      Reply ↓
      1. MissGirl*

        Thanks, it’s good to hear from someone going through it. Random question, how did you handle sharing it in your personal life? I ran into some friends at a party I see every few months and they ask me what I’ve been up to. (I only told family and one close friend when I was going through all the testing). I didn’t say anything about my diagnosis at the party because it wasn’t the time nor place, but I wouldn’t mind having a little extra support from my broader community.

        It feels weird not to talk about it as it’s a big part of my life right now. I thought about doing a Facebook post so I can share it once and not have to wonder about telling people each time I see them.

        Reply ↓
    6. JMR*

      I like you’re phrasing of “I’m undergoing medical treatment for the next month and may be out occasionally.” It lets people know there might be some times when you are unavailable or unresponsive, but it also conveys that it’s under control and they don’t need to worry, and doesn’t give away more information than necessary.

      Reply ↓
    7. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I think you can do whatever you think is best. As well as the options people have mentioned above, you could just say you have a series of appointments for the next 4 weeks that will leave you somewhat less available than usual. Basically, don’t tell them it’s a medical thing at all if it’s stressing you out to decide what to tell whom.

      Reply ↓
    8. MissGirl*

      Thanks everyone. I’m seeing most people err on the side of being more vague with the information I give out. I think I’ll probably stick with that for now. I can’t put the genie back in the bottle if telling causes more worry and attention than I want. I don’t want to be the person with cancer. I want to maintain a degree of professionalism. I may talk about it later.

      Reply ↓
    9. GreenShoes*

      Totally unsolicited advice but relevant advice… sign up for intermittent FMLA if you are eligible. This is exactly why it’s there.

      Reply ↓
  23. I need a reality check - is this weird?*

    My company’s slack has several “casual” channels (like casual-pets, casual-lounge, casual-podcasts, etc.). But earlier this week, someone posted that he created a new channel for “[company] babies”, for “little ones, and not-so-little ones” called “casual mini-mites”.

    I don’t have any kids, and I’m a dog mom so I’ve posted in the casual-pets channel many times, but something about it is off-putting that I can’t articulate.

    Is this actually a thing at other companies? Am I overreacting?

    Reply ↓
    1. Qwerty*

      There’s usually a casual channel for parents. I could see people being open to one about just cute kid pictures like the pet channel. As a non-parent I’d probably even join that for the same reason I’m in the pet channel – sometimes you just want to look at something happy and wholesome that makes you smile.

      It feels like a more appropriate place for people to post pictures of their kids trick-or-treating than the team’s work channel.

      It sounds like the channel is not for you so you can safely ignore it.

      Reply ↓
    2. CTT*

      I don’t know if it’s a thing at other companies since we don’t do Slack at mine, but as someone who doesn’t have kids or pets and doesn’t find a lot of interest in looking at pictures of either category, I would not opt-in to either and so it’s wouldn’t bug me. The names of these new channels are deeply annoying, but there’s nothing you can do about that.

      Reply ↓
    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      Heck, we have one for Great British Bakeoff, one for Halloween/spooky stuff, I think there’s one for other TV shows too. My office is mostly remote, and having multiple casual channels for chatter helps us stay connected. I feel like “mini-mites” is a little twee, but I feel like having a channel for parents of kids around the same age to share thoughts is a nice thing. As a parent who works full time, even though I do so mostly at home, I feel like it’s hard for me to really get to know other parents of kids the same age as mine. Comparing notes with coworkers who are in the same position is actually really helpful.

      Reply ↓
    4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I’ve never heard of having so many slack channels for these things. any place i’ve worked we’ve had just one slack channel of fun stuff.
      I wouldn’t want to share any pics of my kids. Who knows who is going to do what with it.

      Reply ↓
    5. Bunny Watson*

      We have a parents channel on our work slack. I don’t think it’s that unusual. They talk of events in town for little ones and child care things, so maybe this just isn’t a channel for you.

      Reply ↓
    6. Bonkers*

      If it’s cool for you to post about your fur-babies, why in the world would it not be cool for me to have a similar outlet for my actual babies? I’m honestly trying to understand your concern here, and coming up empty.

      Reply ↓
    7. Strive to Excel*

      Having a casual parents channel in theory doesn’t seem odd to me – but I don’t love children’s pictures being distributed online, even in a limited chat, to what is functionally a large group of at best casual acquaintances. A cat doesn’t give two darns if there’s a picture of them covered in flour after creating a kitchen disaster circulating the internet. A person might.

      That has more to do with my feelings about posting pictures of underage children online rather than the specific method.

      Reply ↓
      1. CTT*

        Based on all the age delineations, I wonder if it’s less pictures and more can someone recommend a pediatrician/where can I get X very specific thing for a school project/etc.

        Reply ↓
    8. HR Friend*

      What is off putting about it? We have the same kind of social channels at work – pets, kids, book talk, sports talk, etc. I can’t imagine caring what’s going on in any of them that I don’t subscribe to. Like I’m not into video games, but I don’t find the very existence of a game chat off putting. You’re overreacting and, without knowing more, come off as disdainful of parents.

      Reply ↓
    9. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think it’s weird to be upset about a channel for kids but not a channel for pets, to be honest! Though I think calling it “mini-mites” is also weird.

      I wouldn’t personally share photos of my kinds in Slack, Teams, or anywhere else that companies might be using your data as a training set for their AIs or similar, but that’s just me and I know many people don’t share that concern.

      Reply ↓
  24. boof*

    I’m curious, does anyone work at a place where all salaries are shared (I think this is already done in some government places?), and how do you like it? I’m particularly curious if anyone in a private business in USA does this, and if so, how did you get there and do you think it’s working well?

    … I’m sure we’re a long way off from it but tempted to start proposing more salary sharing and wondering how to go about it. Ideally employer would be on board, I work for a place that I think is reasonable but risk averse.

    Reply ↓
    1. Head Sheep Counter*

      Its a double edged sword. Useful when negotiating to improve your outcome (eg you were hired at a time when salaries were low but that’s changed and raises haven’t put you in the market range) but needlessly cluttering to know that your colleague makes X and your boss makes Y. At least personally, I find it hard to not go down the path of judgement and taking offense. But the reality is we don’t know why the salaries are different and we don’t know the fullness of each persons compensation. So I would look when I wanted to know the practical range for internal job that I was interested in but really tried not to look at specifics.

      Reply ↓
    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I’ve worked at state school in academia and they have a salary website with everyone listed. I think it’s a requirement in our state? It’s a little weird. It’s bleakly hilarious to see that like the 12hr day worker person is making half the salary of the shows up late and goes home early person. It does help a lot with asking for raises to be able to see what other matching job titles make.

      Reply ↓
    3. anonymous worker ant*

      I work in a government place where salaries are public, but also, everybody makes the same thing – your salary is based on grade and years in position; we sometimes get small merit raises but it takes a lot to not get one, so your salary isn’t going to vary more than, say, 5-10% from other people with your job title and your experience. It’s nice to know what other job titles are making (both when considering applying for promotions/transfers and when wanting to advocate for underpaid staff generally) but it’s not going to be at all the same situation as at a job where people negotiate salaries and raises and might have much more individual variations in pay.

      Reply ↓
      1. boof*

        Yes I was under the impression government salaries are public, including public school teachers – the salary bands also tend to be pretty rigid but I imagine it’s nice to be able to look around at what other jobs do. Kind of interesting that it looks like the very lowest salary band (22K, for interns I think) is less than 20x what I imagine the top band is / president (400K) – wonder if that could ever fly with private enterprise! Someone told me that japanese businesses didn’t want to deviate more than 300x salary band – which is a much bigger range but still, seems rational to hitch the top salary to the bottom and maybe median in some way

        Reply ↓
    4. RedinSC*

      We talked about doing this at my last job.

      The closest we got was listing salary bands. So, position X could earn from $$21 – 25/hour or something like that.

      I’ve worked at a public university before and was really happy to have transparent salaries because I learned that I was being paid $35,000 less than a man doing my same job.

      Reply ↓
      1. boof*

        So i’m interested, if you only haad salary bands to work with how did that make you realize that you were underpaid compared to a man?
        I realize it’s tricky because salary as just a number with no context isn’t the full story at all, and maybe salary transparency tends to hand in hand with very rigid pay bands, but seems like it could work out if people got used it and the right accompanying info was there.
        Though this goes back to in your case (which sounds most similar to my situation) any idea what convinced them to go with posting salary bands, and how did that lead you to figure out you were underpaid; like did you just look at your coworkers and see their bands were different than yours even though you thought you were doing the same work?

        Reply ↓
    5. Another Fed reporting in*

      At my previous industry job, our union provided salary transparency in the form of annual reports on what everyone in each skill code made. It was broken down by years of service, age, and position level (but not gender, too few data points I suppose), and showed how they did market benchmarking. It was so, so helpful and I wish all places did this. It was anonymized but I could always identify my individual data point and how it compared to others. It went a long way to making me feel confident I was fairly compensated compared to others and to the market. I recognize that I’d probably feel a lot differently if instead it showed how much lower my salary was than someone else in my same demographic, though, but that’s information I’d ultimately rather have than not.

      Reply ↓
      1. boof*

        That sounds really nice. I think if enough context is provided and there’s clear justification hopefully people won’t be grumpy without cause. I mean I know there’s always going to be someone who can get upset over anything and more info can just mean one more thing to get upset about but for most sounds like it might help verify they’re on par with their peers. (and if upper levels are making extreme salaries well, maybe it’s worth everyone thinking about what sort of salary disparity range is actually worthwhile)

        Reply ↓
    6. fhqwhgads*

      The bands are shared. Each individual’s actual amount is not. I prefer it to having no information whatsoever.

      Reply ↓
      1. boof*

        I’m hoping to push for more transparency in my own org but so far just in the contemplation stage. They’ve done it a bit, they’re clearly trying hard to have a consistent outline of salary and what sort of work is being counted and how they are counting it, but they’re so far still in the habit of trying not to give actual numbers just sort of averages around a base and example numbers – just seems like kind of a weird dance just come out and list them if we’re all trusted adults/professionals here :P

        Reply ↓
    7. Admin of Sys*

      I was in state school higher ed, and I loved having it published. It allowed me to push back when they hired someone at an equivalent position at a higher salary than I had, and get a market correction for my position due to it.

      Reply ↓
      1. boof*

        nice – was it visible because it was state funded, or union, or just their policy? Did they just post salary + position or any other info relevant to scope of work/years on service/etc or was that pretty much presumed to be part of the title/position?

        Reply ↓
    8. The Dude Abides*

      State gov worker

      My state’s Comptroller has a publicly available online database where people can look up the current and prior earnings of myself and any state employee.

      We don’t get merit raises. The unionized employees get the raises outlined in the contract; the non-union folk like me get raises when the governor decides we get raises.

      Reply ↓
  25. DataGirl*

    Healthcare workers: if you were trying to leave your job because decisions and policies by your employer are causing you moral injury, how would you express that to the places you are interviewing. Would you go into details or make up something benign? If you found a new job, would you tell the place you are leaving why?

    Reply ↓
    1. MissGirl*

      I wouldn’t go into it as the reason you’re leaving. I’d focus on the opportunities at the new job. But I would ask questions about new company’s culture. This would be a good opportunity to leverage any network you may have to gain insight into their culture. Some companies are good at paying lip service in interviews.

      I’m not sure what the moral problems you’re facing are but I’m also a data girl. I’ve found working in healthcare to not have the same problems that other tech jobs face. I also find the teams much more diverse. Plus there’s a ton of data.

      Reply ↓
      1. MissGirl*

        I totally missed you already in healthcare. I’m sorry. That’s hard because those are bigger dilemmas. I’m not sure what to advise there. If it’s being asked to do something that would negatively affect patient care that might be worth mentioning.

        If you’ve been at your company a few years then I don’t think anyone will be too concerned with you’re leaving and more curious on why you’re interviewing at their company. I’d still say focus on that.

        Reply ↓
        1. DataGirl*

          I have a very unusual, niche job that involves education, compliance, and IT. Due to my background I don’t really have options outside of this field, so I am interviewing at similar institutions. I know to a certain extent all hospitals have the same problem with profits of patients and employees, but the one I am at now is for-profit and especially egregious- we’ve had multiple r@pes and murd3rs of both patients and employees and the executive leadership have responded in extremely shady, even criminal ways.

          I know these things happen at non-profit institutions as well, I’m just hoping I find somewhere less evil than where I am now.

          Reply ↓
          2. anonymous worker ant*

            I don’t think you need to avoid mentioning that the handling of recurring violence against staff and patients at your previous place made you feel like the leadership didn’t value your safety (especially if the incidents are high-profile enough that they’re likely to have heard of them.) That’s a universally understandable reason to leave, and if they would reject you for that reason, you probably don’t want to work there anyway.

            You don’t want to go into more detail than needed about your wider economic and ethical philosophies, but mentioning specific, egregious, recurring things is an important way to see if the new place will be an improvement.

            Reply ↓
          3. dontstealmydata*

            As I’ve been advised by compliance officers: err on the side of caution and share what is needed, but not more. Something along the lines of “while I have great respect for the organization and what I learned during my time there, the expectations of my role and the values of the company were often in conflict” then pivot to what you know about the values of the new company and how they are supported by what you do, not conflict (patient care & safety, etc.).

            Reply ↓
        2. pally*

          Agree with this! Focus on what you are moving towards (i.e. what attracted you to the position) and not what you are trying to get away from.

          Reply ↓
    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Applying for new jobs: Never be anything but polite about old jobs. They don’t have context to know if your objections are reasonable or if you are a wild card mad at old boss, they might not take that risk.

      Exit interview with current job: Will you need this job for reference in the future? If not, then go ahead and burn that bridge. If maybe, then be matter of fact and polite about it “I disagree with the decisions management made about ABC and that led me to start job hunting”. If yes, then just lie, “couldn’t say no to this opportunity with new company, appreciate all the years here with you at old company!”

      Reply ↓
      1. DataGirl*

        The things I object to have been in the news, so I imagine most moral people would find them reasonable, but we know that executives are neither moral, nor reasonable. That being said, I don’t want to be branded as the radical leftist/ socialist.

        Reply ↓
    3. NotRealAnonForThis*

      Not healthcare, but I let it be known in my second interview that one of the two main reasons that I was leaving OldJob was that my morals, integrity, and character were not for sale. (I’d been asked by the local VP to do something that might leave a third party, who wasn’t involved in the conversation, in danger of losing a professional license. I….think not.) And I stated why. Standing on business there is part of what got me my current position, as integrity is of utmost importance to it.

      Reply ↓
    4. Sassafras*

      Considering how prominent profits over patients is at every place I’ve worked that spewed patients and people come first … yeah I wouldn’t mention it.

      instead think of 1-3 STAR interview questions to ask them.

      Reply ↓
      1. boof*

        I think there are places that still put providing great clinical care as a priority even if they do have to be careful about the bottom line – so far I think my place does a good job. That being said I’d focus on positive things at first and bring it up if they ask why you left; and as you get further along make sure to interview folks who will be doing what you do how they might handle a scenario similar to one of the ones handled badly where you came from.

        Reply ↓
  26. Toxic Waste*

    I work with “Cheryl” who is a busybody and gossip, but she sucks up to the bosses and managers so they like her.

    She also likes to pick “targets” and goes after people. My coworker and I joke about this.
    For whatever reason yesterday I was her target. She accused me of taking a roll of labels. She kept insisting that she gave them to me. I kept saying, no, I don’t have them. Eventually she found them by another coworker.

    Then I was waiting for my lunch to be delivered and she made a comment about how she was wondering why I was standing by the door and didn’t see the delivery person- I just ignored her and continued working.

    She makes comments about how I wasn’t talking-she kept saying it so I pushed back and said that I was busy working.

    Towards the end of the day, my manager was looking for me and Cheryl goes “When I walked by she wasn’t by her desk.” (I was in the bathroom.)

    Ignoring her doesn’t work, but I’m sick of trying to defend myself. Any other suggestions on how to deal with peoeple like this? She’s close with the higher ups, so going to them isn’t an option.

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Kill them with kindness. It’ll annoy them more than actually getting a rise out of you and won’t get you in trouble.

      Reply ↓
      2. Laura*

        Agreed. And for stuff like the “she wasn’t at her desk” well, maybe now you need to tell Cheryl every time you get up to go get a drink of water, or go to the bathroom, or or or

        Reply ↓
      3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Yeah, this is probably the only way. Whatever she’s trying to accomplish here, staying upbeat and friendly doesn’t allow her to accomplish it.

        Reply ↓
    2. Ellis Bell*

      I totally agree to kill her with kindness, and also kind of deliberately misinterpret her if you have to, to point out what she should be saying. You hear “I gave you my labels” You just say “Oh no, you lost your roll of labels? Sorry, I definitely didn’t see what you did with them”. As long as you’re speaking in a kind tone, you can get in the words NO YOU LOST THEM really easily. You hear “I was wondering why you didn’t see the delivery person” you say “Oh you noticed how I was super focused on this huh?” You hear ‘you’re not talking much!’ You say “I’m really okay with getting some crunch work done, but thanks for checking in on me!”. I think the last one about you not being somewhere can be safely ignored though.

      Reply ↓
  27. Diatryma*

    I can’t check back during work, but I have a bit of time.

    My supervisors are in the habit of ‘general announcements’ vs ‘targeted individual feedback’ for corrections. Is there a way to point them toward the resources here about that without being horribly passive-aggressive?

    Reply ↓
    1. Generic Name*

      Instead of indirectly telling your supervisors they need to brush up on their management skills, could you ask them for clarification every time there is a general announcement? Say that you saw the email/heard the announcement about not doing X, and you want to make sure you aren’t doing X inadvertently/by mistake/whatever. Ask every time. Maybe they’ll get the hint, maybe not. Generally, it’s not really your job to improve the skills of folks you report to.

      Reply ↓
    2. Wary Risk Manager*

      Short answer – no. There are several reasons for group corrections – some good and some bad. But either way, you can’t fix. it. Likely your supervisors are just terrible and it’s not your job to improve them.

      It’s possible they are legitimately trying to be helpful. For example, if one of my employees makes a mistake on Form 123, I may send a reminder to everyone, not as a correction, but as useful information because Form123 is almost never used and this is an opportunity to teach people how to use it. If the same person makes a second mistake with form 123, I would address it just with that one person in private.

      I work on the legal and risk side of things. Group corrections are also a CYA thing that hopefully are happening in addition to some private correction you may not be aware of. For example, if we have a sexual harassment issue, everyone is going through additional training. There will likely be additional corrections in private for the offender. But we “need” that group correction as part of a legal defense if there is ever another accusation.

      Reply ↓
  28. I NEED A Tea!*

    I wonder if Alison would be interested in doing a post on mansplaining (if it hasn’t been done already).

    I’ve been working in administration for decades and I know Word, yet today someone felt the need to tell me how to adjust the spacing and resize a pic within a document. Someone who has nothing to do with admin. Doesn’t even work in the office.

    I told him thank you but I know what to do.

    Do not cite the spell to me, I was there when it was written.

    Reply ↓
    1. Zona the Great*

      You look at them like they’re the stupidest person on earth and ask, “do you truly, honestly believe that that is something you’d ever need to tell me or any other professional for that matter?”

      Reply ↓
      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Or, the more polite-seeming version of this, looking bemused and asking “is there a reason you think I’m not aware of that?”

        Reply ↓
    2. Strive to Excel*

      I suspect that would rapidly devolve into a comments disaster but I’d be curious about hearing the stories too. I had someone (not a coworker, thank God) unironically bring up “vocal fry” as something they really dislike in women. The only thing I could think to say was “it’s really weird that you’re criticizing something that is a natural way that someone’s voice sounds like it’s a professional failing” and then walk away before I got into a really public fight. I’m still angry.

      Reply ↓
      2. Sassafras*

        Isn’t the point of vocal fry that it isn’t natural? I recall an NPR article on it back in the late teens about concerns for long term voice damage since so many Gen Z women were doing it.

        Reply ↓
        1. Hroethvitnir*

          No. It’s something you could work on changing if you wanted, like any speech patterns, but it is as natural as anything else you pick up from the people around you.

          It’s also not despised when used by men, despite being common in some accents/dialects. Notably, at least some southern English accents, that carry quite the opposite stereotypes to young American women.

          I get that once something bothers you, it becomes impossible to ignore, but it really is just a made up problem.

          Reply ↓
      4. Lewis*

        Also, vocal fry has been around a long time. But when handsome masculine actors do it, it’s called “gravelly” and considered attractive. Nobody feared for their voices.

        Reply ↓
    4. TGIO*

      I posted below, but you are clearly my people!

      The person I hired last year has turned out to be a mansplainer, and it’s driving me crazy. They are now leaving, and I’d love to better screen for this during the upcoming interviews. Does anyone have a good question they’ve used in the past to get mansplainers to out themselves?

      Reply ↓
      1. Lewis*

        They usually tend to reveal themselves early on. All you need to do is create an opportunity they can’t resist.

        Reply ↓
  29. General Izable*

    My colleague and I are working on presenting some feedback from participants in a social services program, and one comment was about the lack of ‘aftercare’ for participants who finished the program. This is a good insight that we want to include in our report, but I’m concerned that the term ‘aftercare’ has some *cough cough* NSFW connotations. My colleague hasn’t seemed to notice this at all, and is continuing to use this term in our report draft. Is my mind too far in the gutter to accurately assess if this term is inappropriate or not? If not, how do I delicately suggest an alternative term?

    Reply ↓
    1. CherryBlossom*

      I wouldn’t call the phrase itself inappropriate, but the connotation is enough that it would throw some people off. I’d more likely think it was named by an older person who’s not aware of the phrase’s most spicy meaning. Still, if you can get that changed, I recommend doing so, just for peace of mind.

      I’d phrase it as wanting to be more specific or purpose driven, because aftercare can come across as very vague. Something like a “debrief” or a “post-program wrap-up” might work better, though of course you know your industry better. Good luck!

      Reply ↓
        2. CherryBlossom*

          Oh, bless your heart, I don’t disagree. But the terminology does tend to change for every generation or so. I wouldn’t expect an 80-year-old to know “Do The Mountain Dew” anymore than I’d expect a 17-year-old to know “Making Whoopie”. Time marches on and all that.

          Reply ↓
    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      I think “aftercare” has medical connotations to FAR more people than it does NSFW connotations, to be honest (and I say that as someone familiar with the context you’re thinking of). No one is going to bat an eyelash.

      Reply ↓
    3. Friday Express*

      I’ve never heard the NSFW meaning. Having said that, if it’s risky to use it, suggesting a phrasing change like “follow-up care” or “post-program follow up” or whatever might just sidestep the issue.

      Reply ↓
    4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I have never heard aftercare being used for a NSFW reason. I think you are over thinking it. Especially since it is a term used in medical settings.

      Reply ↓
      1. WorkerDrone*

        This is so funny, I have ONLY heard it used for a NSFW reason and never heard it used in medical settings; I had no idea it was also use in medical care. I love learning new stuff like that.

        Reply ↓
    5. Binky*

      I understand the innuendo, but as a parent my first though of “aftercare” is childcare that extends the school day.

      But maybe “follow-up” would be better in this context?

      Reply ↓
    6. Wellie*

      Pegging has NSFW connotations, and so does unicorn. Sometimes you just have to suppress your inner 12 year old and be an adult.
      If it bothers you that much, suggest “follow up” as an alternative to avoid confusion with the well know medical usage of the term.

      Reply ↓
      1. 3-Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

        I wouldn’t be too fast to head to the NSFW meaning of unicorn in a work context when it’s the commonly used term for “private business valued over $1 billion.”

        And in my case, a child’s toy marking a row in an anonymous cube farm.

        Reply ↓
    8. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      there are multiple meanings and the meaning will be very, very clear in this context. I know what you’re referencing but think you should just leave it alone.

      Reply ↓
    9. Strive to Excel*

      I think it’s fine – it’s one of those things where you’ll only notice it if you’re already familiar with the scene. Like the more ‘adult’ jokes Pixar used to have.

      I’d find it a weird phrase for a social program because I associate it more with either medical or childcare, as other folks have mentioned below. Is that what your participants want? Or are they looking for continuing followups/support even after they’ve completed the program?

      Reply ↓
    10. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think you’re fine to use it given everyone else’s responses here, but I’d actually interrogate whether or not “aftercare” actually conveys what your participants were hoping to get from your workplace. They’ve finished the program, so are they looking for quarterly follow-ups just to make sure they’re still on track? A monthly newsletter that updates them on things that might have changed since they went through the program that they’d benefit from knowing about? Something else?

      I guess what I’m saying is that I think “aftercare” has a definite medical meaning that would come to mind (if not the NSFW version) and unless your program is medical in nature, it may just be a weird fit. Like, is it just ongoing community engagement with people who have “graduated” the program so that your relationship isn’t just over the second they walk out the door, etc.

      Reply ↓
    11. fhqwhgads*

      I have no idea what you’re referring to, so there’s a data point. I’m accustomed to “aftercare” meaning, like…at a school or camp, the time where kids can stay later than usually release time (like 3p) until later in the evening when parents’ jobs are more commonly finished (like 6p) and am completely unaware of any other meaning.

      Reply ↓
    12. HonorBox*

      Is there a different term that could be used? I understand the NSFW meaning but also pay $10/day for aftercare for the time my child spends at school after the school day. Is aftercare here a situation in which people are receiving actual care? Or is it some sort of follow-up care or procedure? If there’s any sort of potential for confusion about what the commenter meant by aftercare, I’d say change it. And that would be true if it didn’t have an NSFW meaning but could just be confusing.

      Reply ↓
    13. Stoppin' by to chat*

      Your mind is too far in the gutter :) People will understand that this is related to after school childcare.

      Reply ↓
    14. No name today*

      So my references for this term are either medical or child-care related—neither of which fit your scenario. Perhaps “alumni services” or “post-program support services” would be clearer to your audience.

      Reply ↓
    15. Anon for This*

      Completely aside from the NSFW connotations, it’s not clear to me what you mean by aftercare. Some commenters took it to mean follow-up, but I am more familiar with the childcare context noted – care after the official program is over, until the participant can be picked up by a parent or approved person. So I’d avoid the buzzword anyway and say what you mean, even if it is longer.

      Reply ↓
  30. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

    I have a work situation that’s been bugging me – it is not about my boss this time! I work as a clerk in a law firm. This is a relatively low-stakes question compared to what I’ve been asking the past few weeks.

    Part of my job involves messenger runs, including dropping off large checks when they exceed the mobile deposit limit (which is a 20 minute walk one way to the bank). I could have Ubered but I probably wouldn’t have gotten reimbursed and I didn’t want to pay for it out of my own pocket.

    Out of curiosity, I asked my friend in accounting about the mobile deposit limit. She didn’t know, so she asked her boss (the head of accounting), who also didn’t know and said that was a question for the controller.

    When I picked up the check from the controller the next day (which was an amount I wasn’t comfortable carrying), I asked about the limit. She explained it was more about her comfort level than the bank’s limit and gave me a ballpark number of where she would be comfortable using mobile deposit. She also said I was welcome to ask questions and that she wanted me to have context rather than just being told to do a task. I like and appreciate context, so this was great.

    A few days later, my boss asked why I needed to know the limit (I don’t know how she found out, if someone actually mentioned it to her or if they brought it up more casually). I said I was just curious, but she basically told me not to bother people with questions like this and claimed I had interrupted a meeting (which I later found out wasn’t true). I felt terrible and apologized to the head of accounting, who was not surprised by my apology, and reassured me it wasn’t a big deal but mentioned the controller had questioned why I needed to know (“yeah, (controller) was just like, ‘we just need (my real name) to drop off the check, why does she need to know?'”).

    I guess I’m just confused (and peeved) because the controller said one thing but really meant another. I also do think that if I – as a lowly clerk – am being asked to carry a well over six-figure check, I don’t think my curiosity/question was unreasonable.

    But did I really do something wrong in asking? I didn’t think I was asking for, like, state secrets.

    Reply ↓
    1. Scriveaaa*

      I don’t think you were doing anything wrong, but I do think this is a good learning about how your boss operates. She doesn’t want you to ask questions. She just wants you to do the work.

      You’ll have to decide from there on if you feel like it’s a good fit for you longterm. I know I personally would find those expectations frustrating.

      Reply ↓
      1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

        yeah. apparently asking questions is a no-no in this law firm….. because even though the controller said that I was welcome to ask questions, she took issue with my asking (which was the main point of this post, not really about my boss this time).

        this role is not a good fit for me longterm and I am looking for other positions. the expectations are A Lot – other people in other departments agree, for the limited amount they work with her.

        Reply ↓
    2. NaoNao*

      Bleh, I had that kind of two-faced stuff. And I also don’t love “you’re a peon, you can’t ask questions” vibes.

      But I would have been honest “because I was hoping to avoid a 20 minute walk to the bank if it was possible, frankly”. I’m not sure if that would have gotten a better response, but the ‘just curious’ might have come off weirdly in some way. The reality is, from reading this, it does seem like “is there a way I can just deposit this?” was the motivator, and I also raise an eyebrow at the comptroller being uncomfortable using digital deposit over a certain level but being okay with having a lower-level employee walk a check to the bank some distance away, it seems backwards to me.

      Reply ↓
      1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

        “I also raise an eyebrow at the comptroller being uncomfortable using digital deposit over a certain level but being okay with having a lower-level employee walk a check to the bank some distance away, it seems backwards to me.”

        tbh this is my thinking too. like *she* gets to make decisions based on her own comfort, but I just have to do whatever I am told.

        Reply ↓
      2. goddessoftransitory*

        Especially if you can’t count on getting reimbursed for a legit business expense! If you mean twenty minutes two and from, that’s forty minutes out of your workday.

        Reply ↓
    3. Pocket Mouse*

      People are sometimes weird about giving context! Now you know. If you find yourself curious about similar things, maybe finding a delicate way to frame the question will smooth the way.

      I do think this gives you ammunition to ask for an Uber to get to the bank, though. Like: “I’m finding that I’m uncomfortable walking to the bank with this large of a check; I’m concerned that I could become a target for mugging. Especially since we could use mobile deposit for some of these checks, and Employer/Controller is asking me to make the trip in person anyway, let’s talk about how I can arrange to take a car there. Is someone able to order me an Uber with a company card? Or if I get a car myself, can I get assurance that I’ll be reimbursed from petty cash the same day? I’m happy to walk back once it’s deposited.”

      Reply ↓
      1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

        yeah i think if i have a check that is this large, i should be able to take an uber at least to the bank…. if they push back on my uncomfortably – clerks before me have had to do these same runs, although the location closet to us closed a couple years ago so it’s only recently we’ve had this trek – i don’t know what i’d do. seems like the consensus is to just suck it up.

        Reply ↓
    4. Can't think of a funny name*

      Wow, I don’t see anything wrong with what you asked. If they didn’t want to answer, they could have just said, “That’s not something I’m allowed to share.”

      Reply ↓
      1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

        that’s what I was thinking too!!

        but I take major issue with the fact that the controller said one thing to my face – that questions are welcome and she doesn’t want me to feel like people are like “do it!” when handed a task – and then turns around and complains that I asked about the limit.

        Reply ↓
    5. Hyena*

      Hi, I’m ND and have run into reactions like this towards idle curiosity that really confused me.

      What I have learned is that often, if you are asked to do a task, and you ask a “why” question related to the task, people will take that as you implying you don’t want to do it, and apply varying levels of bad faith to this thought. Whereas to you (and to me!), you’re just asking because you are curious and like learning about the world around you, they hear “I don’t like doing this and I’m asking so I can push back on being assigned this task.”

      In a more relaxed or forgiving type of workplace, or when people know you well and/or you’ve made it clear you really are just asking because you like to learn, curiosity questions are taken better. But I imagine in a law office, people are busy and answering tons of work-critical questions all day, so your innocent one is added stress they’d rather you just not bother them with.

      Reply ↓
      1. juliebulie*

        This has been my experience. Some people seem to react to virtually any question as if you are challenging them in some way or trying to get away with something. It is very frustrating.

        Reply ↓
        1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

          this all makes a lot of sense. I can see now how my question could have been taken as an “I don’t want to do this!!!” type of thing (which, tbh, given the dollar amount, I wasn’t comfortable doing).

          I just take issue with the controller telling me questions were ok and then turning around and saying the opposite – to where the head of accounting knew and my boss knew I had asked.

          (granted I also take issue with the fact that mobile deposit amounts are based on what she’s comfortable with, while I, probably the lowest-paid and lowest in the food chain, employee can be asked to carry a 6-figure check for 20 minutes……)

          Reply ↓
      2. SMP*

        This is what got my teenage daughter fired from her first job. I think she dodged a bullet personally but it was very upsetting to her. During training, she was trying to make sure she understood how to do things and asked a lot of questions. They fired her for being argumentative even though she wasn’t arguing. She is neurodivergent.

        Reply ↓
    6. Saturday*

      My theory is that the controller was checking to see if you were asking on your boss’s behalf.
      My experience is that often when one of us worker bees asks a question, people sometimes assume that’s it’s really coming from someone above us. So then controller checked in with your boss about it.

      Reply ↓
      1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

        oo this is an interesting theory!!! the dynamics at this firm are Weird, so I could see this happening as a possibility.

        Reply ↓
  31. wendelenn*

    I was just wondering, whatever happened to AAM Good News Fridays? It seems like we could use a dose of good news right about now. :)

    Reply ↓
    1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

      I believe Alison stopped those as they weren’t getting as much traffic as other posts? Some please correct me if I am wrong!

      Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      It went on hiatus at the end of 2023. Might be permanently gone now. I’ll post a link to some discussion that happened about it in an open thread in January 2024 in a reply to this comment.

      Reply ↓
        1. wendelenn*

          Thank you. I see the points on both sides and understand the decision. It’s just the past 19 days have been such an awful ride I could use a smile. (no, I am not a fed but am a govt employee, but even that is beside the point :) )

          Reply ↓
          1. Hlao-roo*

            Very understandable! In lieu of an official good news post, here are some of my favorite past posts:

            https://www.askamanager.org/2022/02/changing-pronouns-at-work-a-success-story.html

            Question #3 here…
            https://www.askamanager.org/2022/09/my-boss-changes-her-mind-after-ive-already-started-a-project-how-common-is-swearing-at-work-and-more.html

            …and heart-warming update here:
            https://www.askamanager.org/2023/02/update-how-to-tell-a-former-employee-he-cant-visit-us-weekly.html

            The question + update combo:
            https://www.askamanager.org/2020/01/my-needy-boss-wants-me-to-adopt-her.html

            https://www.askamanager.org/2020/05/update-my-needy-boss-wants-me-to-adopt-her.html

            Some positive car-pooling stories from yesterday’s post:
            https://www.askamanager.org/2025/02/lets-talk-about-carpooling-for-work-and-how-it-can-go-wrong.html#comment-5003370

            https://www.askamanager.org/2025/02/lets-talk-about-carpooling-for-work-and-how-it-can-go-wrong.html#comment-5003666

            And if looking at cute animal photos makes you smile, check out these posts:
            https://www.askamanager.org/2020/03/here-are-your-animal-coworkers.html

            https://www.askamanager.org/2020/04/animal-coworkers-part-2.html

            Reply ↓
    3. badnewsbear*

      iirc it stopped because there wasn’t the interest. I never read it after the first few, tbh, it felt very repetitive. “I had trouble getting a job, but then I got a job”.
      You could start a Good News Thread maybe? Because I know some people liked it and I am just a grouch.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tea Monk*

        Yea in the weekend thread they have joys so the work thread could have the ” thanks to ask the manager I got a job that pays $200k ” or something

        Reply ↓
      2. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

        I sent in a post for it about my new job, only to realize it wasn’t happening any more!

        The only reason I got a new job was that I was passed over for promotion at my old job (which I expected) in a way that was mildly insulting (which I hadn’t), and got mad enough to spend a few minutes applying for things on LinkedIn. Result: More than double the salary, great health insurance, and an awesome opportunity to do something I love.

        Reply ↓
  32. bleh*

    requesting a sanity check-
    Current PhD student. I have an officemate I have a somewhat difficult relationship with. He’s struggling in the program and I’m doing well. He is more senior to me by several years. I sometimes feel that he makes borderline sexist comments (“you’re very overconfident”, “we can’t all be as confident as you”, implying my advisor did all the work for me…even though I’m here 50 hours a week every week…working. I don’t think I’m too confident! I ask for help and get things wrong all the time. He slowed down and stopped making those comments for the most part after my first successful committee meeting).

    This morning I came in early so it was just him and I in the office. We said hello, and then he said “you seem less stressed than you were in November and December”, I said something along the lines of “I’m probably about the same, since [big exam] is coming up” and he responded “you were very mean to me in November and December”. I asked what he meant and he just repeated that I was mean.

    I had to leave for a meeting pretty much at that moment, so we didn’t hash it out. I’ve never insulted him or anything, but I don’t make the extra effort to go out of my way to get to know him like I have with other grad students. I say hello when I come in. I really don’t know how to approach this. I don’t want to be a mean person. I know the answer is “just talk to him about it”, but honestly I’m still a little put out over his past comments. I feel like he went out of his way to intimidate me before my first committee meeting, and the negging about confidence. I honestly just want to brush this morning off- why should I have to go out of my way to be nice(r) when he made my first year so difficult. At the same time, I don’t want to be mean and if there’s something I did, I want to know and apologize for it. What’s the right move here??????????

    Reply ↓
    1. SunnyShine*

      I don’t know what it is like to work in a PhD program. You can try going to the advisor.

      But also, handling in the moment is best. It doesn’t warrant a long conversation. You aren’t being mean by setting boundaries. Some people won’t like you and you need to find a way to be okay with that without letting it zap your energy. I’m a people pleaser and I used to drive myself nuts worrying about people like him. It’s not worth it. He has no say over your work and you’re successful.

      Reply ↓
      1. One more thing*

        Definitely do not bring this to your advisor, OP — it would come off as very strange indeed.

        Is there any way you can just let it slide off your back? It sounds like this person wants a response and reaction from you, but you don’t need to give it to them.

        Also, any chance you’re a woman? Because this behavior sounds very much like trying to put you down — the negging you describe. If that’s the case, and you don’t feel you can disengage, I’d try limiting your time in the shared office. But don’t get into it with this guy, because there is no “it” except of his own making, and you have comps to deal with.

        Good luck!

        Reply ↓
        1. goddessoftransitory*

          If anything I would bet he’s hoping she’ll go to the advisor and make herself look silly or petty. This is manipulation, OP.

          Reply ↓
    2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I don’t think you were mean, otherwise he would have pointed something out. I think he maybe sees that you aren’t as friendly/close as you are with others in the program. But that’s really on him and how he treated you before. You don’t owe your friendship to anyone.
      If he says something again I would ask how am I being mean? I say good morning, goodbye, etc. I don’t criticize you or call you over confident. etc. This is all on him. and I bet he’s just trying to make you uncomfortable.

      Reply ↓
    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      See if you can swap desks/offices with someone. Then you won’t have to deal with him.

      If you do have to clear the air with him, I’d go with something like “I’m sorry you feel that I was mean, that was not my intent. I am just very focused when I am here working, unfortunately I don’t have time for much chit chat”. It’s just a bunch of BS. You weren’t mean to him. He was mean to you.

      Reply ↓
    4. RJK*

      My honest opinion: This guy sounds like a jerk. Personally, I think even if you did something to annoy him, that doesn’t give him the right to go out of his way to intimidate you, make sexist comments, or be mean without explanation. I think it would be reasonable to go to your professor and ask to move to a different office, or at least mention that this dude’s treatment of you is creating an uncomfortable environment and getting in the way of your work to see what can be done.

      Reply ↓
    5. Rusty Shackelford*

      “Actually I’m appropriately confident. Maybe *you’re* the one with a confidence problem.”

      No, probably not.

      Reply ↓
    6. hello!*

      Are you female (presenting) and him male? Because this sounds like another way to intimidate/manipulate you. Having been a PhD student, I’d definitely keep your advisor out of it. And, from personal experience, try not to leave anything around that he can sabotage. Forget this morning. If he accuses you of meanness again, ask him for specifics, if he can’t provide any, too bad. After all, he’s not apologizing to you for meanness, don’t apologize to him.
      And know that academics are the pettiest of people, with no social skills. (not all, obviously).
      And, good for you for rocking your PhD! Continued good academic success!

      Reply ↓
      1. Nesprin*

        Having been a PhD student, and now a PI, clue your PI in unless you expect them to side with that guy. Managing personnel and especially protecting graduate students is part of the gig.

        Reply ↓
      2. Tomi*

        Not sure whether this pertains to your advisor specifically, but creating a safe environment for the PhD students is 100% one of the responsibilities of the chair or coordinator and you should feel free to make this guy their problem if you would like

        Reply ↓
    7. Zona the Great*

      Nope. Don’t play that game. If this is being mean, then continue being mean. He sounds like a child and especially when he tells another adult they were mean to him 4 months ago. Mean? Does he mean short, brusque, rude, something else that actually means something? I would just guess that you doing your job well is being mean to him. Oh well.

      Reply ↓
      1. A Significant Tree*

        Definitely my reaction too! This isn’t a PhD program issue, it’s a “working with a jerk who’s negging you” issue. The answer isn’t to talk it out with him, you don’t owe it to him to manage his feelings. Resist the urge to explain yourself or engage him on this. If anything, a non-apology is a perfect response, even if you only say it in your head – “Sorry you feel that way.”

        Back in my PhD program, I also shared an office with someone problematic. After a few fruitless discussions about our differing points of view on a work thing, where it became clear that he wasn’t listening to me and only wanted me to agree with him, I decided for myself not to engage and made a point to unofficially time-share the office (as in, not be present when he was there). I was surface-polite, always, but oh gee, I always had somewhere else to be, oh so busy, can’t chat, bye now.

        Reply ↓
    8. Happily Retired*

      Sounds like you work with a Fragile Male™.

      Perhaps when he makes this kind of remark, you can just stare at him in mild confusion and move on. Trying to answer or reason or reassure is just playing his game.

      Reply ↓
      1. Everything Bagel*

        Exactly this. I would not follow up with him later to ask him what he meant. He obviously wants you to follow up and perhaps be apologetic and try to explain yourself, but you don’t owe him any explanation or apology. Just continue being competent and confident, and generally pleasant with him as you have been. I don’t think you owe him anymore than that.

        Reply ↓
    9. Nesprin*

      Changing offices, giving your PI a heads up, and possibly talking your dean or to the title 9 office, depending on if this goes any further.

      He’s a sexist jerk- those show up some times in academia. The best solution is to excel, without worrying about being nice to someone who has never worried about being nice, or even fair to you.

      Reply ↓
    10. Toads*

      Former professor, here, and I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this person. From your comment, it reads like he might be negging and/or gaslighting you. I would be surprised if engaging with him (even to talk it out) was very useful, but you could always try that. You might be able to: ask to be switched to a different office or find someone who he’s less likely to mess with to switch spaces with you, if your work allows you might try to reserve a private carrel or office in the library at your university — I knew a lot of people who worked primarily in their carrels during grad school, or if you have a good graduate program manager or similar person (or even your advisor if you think they’d be up for helping or giving advice) it might be a good idea to let them know what’s going on and see what they recommend. I hope your work situation improves!

      Reply ↓
    11. Saturday*

      I would leave it alone. You asked what he meant and gave him a chance to tell you, and he didn’t. You don’t need to coax it out of him. You’ve done your part, so I would let it go at this point.

      For what it’s worth, I think the advice to bring in your advisor or dean nor to request to move is way, way too extreme here.

      Reply ↓
    13. Ellis Bell*

      On the meanness: “I can’t think of an example unless you can.” If he can’t think of literally one example, stop caring.

      Reply ↓
    14. Anongineer*

      I’d recommend you reframe this “somewhat difficult relationship” as “ongoing sexual harassment.”

      I’ve known jackasses like your officemate. His thoughts and actions are solely to intimidate, to wear down your confidence, and to make you worry about managing his feelings. It’s a game to him, nothing more. Your reaction to this harassment will of course have to balance your rights against the stress and practicalities of having those rights enforced, and that’s not fair. But your response MUST NOT be based on the false belief that he actually means what he says, or that he gives a flying flip about having a collegial relationship.

      I’ve come into a lab with a similar dynamic, where a star (female) PhD student was having “a difficult relationship” with an older (male) research scientist responsible for conducting a set of experiments and analyzing the results. (This is a very complex task and well outside her skillset and field of study.) I was brought in to help the research scientist, on the (incorrect) assumption the raw data needed months of analysis work, and that the female PhD was being rude, unfriendly, overconfident, unreasonable, excessively demanding, and otherwise inappropriate in her interactions with him. My first meeting with the PhD student had her break down in tears from the stress, and thinking herself foolish for trusting this guy and not keeping her own copies of the raw data. Her dissertation was being held up, and I suspect he was trying to coerce her into something terrible.

      I met with the jackass scientist, commiserated, agreed the woman was being unreasonable, that she should treat him with more respect, praised his efforts, and – critically – collected the raw data before he realized what was happening and destroyed it. The jackass scientist was not remotely prepared for the update meeting a week later, where I presented my complete analysis of the raw data, prompting a series of questions about how I could do in one week what the other guy couldn’t do in 5 months. I wanted to do a lot more damage, but the PhD student was afraid of additional retaliation if I went too far.

      I still keep track of both of them. The star PhD student is world-famous in her field. The jackass scientist is underemployed, which I only know because he Emails me every couple years asking for help breaking back into R&D. I’ve yet to answer any of them.

      I’m not sure this is helpful other than (1) make sure you don’t let anyone keep the only copy of data, (2) people like this eventually run into a situation they can’t weasel out of, and (3) I rarely get to tell this story so I’m telling it now. :)

      Reply ↓
    15. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      I guess a “Sorry your feelings were hurt” would be inappropriate. My feeling is he is negging you because you are a better researcher and wants to take you down a peg so he feels superior.

      Reply ↓
    16. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      That sucks. Consider that the answer is actually the opposite: be polite and continue to say hello to him, but don’t engage on anything of substance. Basically, give him the gray rock treatment. He’s demonstrated that engaging with him sucks, so don’t feel pressured to engage with him any more than what basic courtesy requires. Also, there’s not much sense in taking advice from someone who’s struggling in the program. He’s not worth your time.

      Like others, I super doubt that you were actually mean to him. Either his definition of being mean is very different from most people’s or this is some tactic to upset you and throw you off balance because he’s threatened by you. The latter is much more likely. The dude has already demonstrated he’s willing to try to mess with you by intimidating you before your first committee meeting. And if you were actually mean, he should have been able to give some sort of examples.

      Reply ↓
    17. Kay*

      I’m not a PhD student but I’m guessing you have come across a man upset that a woman is doing something better than him and expressing that in the most childish of ways. Right move is to continue as you have been.

      Reply ↓
  33. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

    I already tried to post something, plus I left a comment on someone else’s post. are things taking awhile to load for anyone else? I don’t see my original post nor the comment I made showing up yet.

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      Looks like all your posts have shown up now (or at least, I see this one, your other question and a duplicate of it).

      Reply ↓
      1. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

        thank you! i see both my posts and the first comment on the other post. some of my replies on my first post aren’t showing up yet so hopefully they will soon. :)

        Reply ↓
    2. Amber Rose*

      Sometimes posts get caught by the filter for bizarre and esoteric reasons. They usually get released pretty fast, especially on Fridays.

      Reply ↓
      2. Frank Doyle*

        There have been an increase in trolling posts recently; perhaps a response to that has been increasing the number of words that trigger a filter.

        Reply ↓
  34. Moon Muffin*

    Does anyone have advice for feeling more motivated/challenged at work? I work for an awesome company that I want to stay at, but the job itself is kind of boring and I struggle to stay motivated or do anything practical during downtime. I feel stagnant having done this type of work for several years and I recently got a promotion but so far my job is exactly the same. I like the idea of being more challenged but I can bring myself to get started on anything and I’m not sure how to tell my boss I want to do something different without knowing what that is.

    Reply ↓
    1. Chrissy*

      Have you tried just asking your manager if there’s anything else they happen to need another pair of hands on? And make them aware of how much downtime you have and let them know you’d like to put that to good use — maybe you see that the team seems to be understaffed in X area, or Fergus is always complaining that he has too many files to stack, and could you contribute there?

      Reply ↓
    2. EJ*

      Networking! Set a goal to invite 3 people to coffee or lunch every week. Virtual works too. Schedule them out in advance. They could be internal coworkers, or outside contacts if you feel that wouldn’t raise eyebrows with your manager. Pick people who do things you might be interested in, people who do different things from you, all different types of and levels of roles. Learn about their jobs and how they got to be where they are today. Come with lots of questions and curiosity. Thank them for their time. Keep track of who you met with on LinkedIn or your own personal spreadsheet.

      You never know when this network could be valuable to you someday. But in the meantime, people love meeting with someone who genuinely just wants to make a connection and learn, and doesn’t NEED anything from them at this moment.

      Reply ↓
  35. CJ*

    I’m a morning person, and I’m having trouble adjusting from my previous schedule of 8-4 in-person, to my new job schedule of 9-5 remote. I used to roll out of bed and hop on the train, gradually waking up during my commute, then eating breakfast at the office. Now I’m waking up with 2+ hours of morning time that somehow doesn’t feel “usable” like evening time does. Theoretically I have MORE time in my day but it doesn’t feel that way! Anyone dealt with this before, and any creative ideas for how to utilize morning time, or tasks to shift from evening to morning? 

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Could you do smaller chores in the morning. Like put away clean dishes? etc. is there any hobbies or anything that you could do earlier. Like maybe journaling or exercising. Could you use the time to prepare lunch for the day? Read?

      Reply ↓
    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Go do errands outside the home in those 2 hours, pick up dry cleaning, get groceries, go to the gym, post office, walk out to get the mail. If your brain associates home = relax/sleep in the morning, that’s hard to beat into wash dishes, start laundry. Getting in a new setting can help with the wake up.

      Reply ↓
    3. WellRed*

      When I went remote, I enjoyed having coffee and reading the paper before work. You can also eat your breakfast first instead of after you get to work. If you are a morning person can’t you…exercise, throw in a load of laundry , make your grocery list, pay bills or any of a thousand other tasks. Embrace it!

      Reply ↓
    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      1. Dinner prep. Chop veggies, thaw meat, make things that can be easily reheated. I often make rice or other grain dishes on my lunch break and pop them in the fridge so I can just microwave them for dinner and not have to do the whole cooking process when I’m done working.
      2. Household chores like sweeping, vacuuming, laundry etc.
      3. Exercise.
      4. Grocery shopping. It’ll be much less crowded.

      Reply ↓
    5. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Move your gym time to the morning? Or do household chores like laundry, dishes, vacuuming, since you’re at home.

      Reply ↓
    6. hello!*

      Go for a long-ish walk or workout in the morning. It gets you out of your house, gets your body moving, blood pumping etc. I do this on work from home days. I go out for a short (30 min) walk on days it’s colder than -10′, longer walks other days.

      Reply ↓
      1. Notmorningperson*

        Seconding this. I’m wondering if the daylight LW got from getting to the train and being on it set their body and brain to daytime mode and made them feel better. I agree it’s hard to start tasks when you’re always anticipating a hard stop, but this time is made for light chores. You may be happier doing them first, then shower and breakfast, so you can just speed through those if running late, and also it’s telling your brain to move towards work mode.

        Reply ↓
    7. Miss Dove*

      I’m a morning person too. I love having extra time in the morning because I hate to rush to work. Eat your leisurely breakfast, then do some prep for lunch or dinner. I use the morning time to exercise and do the NYT puzzles.

      Reply ↓
    8. Nicki Name*

      When I moved to WFH, I replaced my commute with a walk around the neighborhood. In addition to the exercise, it really helps with maintaining the transition from home mode to work mode.

      Other things I do sometimes before work: small chores, start the laundry, or watch a TV episode.

      Reply ↓
    9. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Walk to a train stop closer to work, thus getting in some exercise and reducing your train time?

      Reply ↓
    10. ReeCeeRob*

      I haven’t had this happen specifically (I’m not a morning person) but I get the same sense whenever I have work, an appt, etc. at a certain time that the time before it isn’t “usable.” On reflection, I think it’s because it doesn’t feel relaxing, it feels like waiting.

      I’ve started trying to use that time to do life admin or chores. Load/empty the dishwasher, open the mail, call to schedule my dentist appointment, order more paper towel and toothpaste, take the dog for a walk. Things I’d have to do some other time anyway. As long as I can’t relax now, I can do things so I can relax more later.

      Reply ↓
    11. HonorBox*

      For the past six weeks or so, I’ve had a little more time on my hands several mornings before work. I’ve been able to get a surprising amount of stuff done around the house. Some of that is schedule, some of that is because I’m not sitting with my coffee and watching the news. Either way, I’ve been able to get laundry done, prepped meals, done some light cleaning, etc. These aren’t big ticket, big time tasks, but I’ve been able to do quite a bit in that extra time. Now that the days are getting longer, take a walk outside if you can. Or get some groceries. Shift some of those afternoon/evening activities to the morning and still end up with more time in the evenings than you had before

      Reply ↓
    12. CJ*

      I’m the question-asker and all of these ideas are SO helpful! I started a list! You all are helping me pinpoint part of my challenge, which is that with my previous schedule I got used to making sure that everything on my list was crossed off by the time I went to bed, ending the day with completion. I may have to start purposefully leaving tasks “undone” for the morning, which will some mental shifting but I can definitely get used to it!

      Reply ↓
  36. anotherfan*

    What are everybody’s coping strategies for dealing with annoying coworkers? I’ve been using “I’m retiring soon, none of this matters” but I’m interested in other people’s workarounds.

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      This is so mean but I used to play bingo. Square per annoying habit, getting bingo means I got dessert or takeout on the way home, or skipped a chore to do something fun. Made it entertaining instead of annoying when Steve would start his muttering and angry typing. “Audible cursing! that’s a square” , “keyboard is sounding like it was break any min! that’s a square”, now if someone just starts hiccupping I’m not doing dishes tonight

      Reply ↓
    2. Amber Rose*

      Once I had a cubicle next to a coworker who wanted to chat all the time. One day, I was on the phone. And I heard him call my name. But I was on the phone so I ignored him. Figured he’d hear me talking. Only to hear, “Amber? Amber! Amber!! AMBER!! AMBER!!!”

      So I finally said, “What! I’m on the phone!”

      And he said, “Oh I thought so.”

      He just wanted to know if I was on the phone.

      Literally nobody could be more annoying than that. I use him as my benchmark for all things annoying, and if it’s not worse than that guy then it doesn’t deserve to be noticed.

      Obviously that’s a very me strategy. :D

      Reply ↓
    3. Boggle*

      Take frequent breaks away from them, use headphones and ignore them, concentrate on your work and ignore them, ultimately, ignore them. :) I retired a month ago from my annoying coworkers and can say without a doubt it’s *wonderful*. You will get there too!

      Reply ↓
  37. NMitford*

    I’m currently in the process of planning my retirement by working with a retirement investment advisor. It turns out that I’m in better shape financially than I thought I was, and I can retire as soon as I consolidate and reinvest my various 401k accounts with more than 80% of my pre-retirement income (80% is the goal we’re all advised to work towards) when Social Security is factored in. I just have to get everything together and get it to where it’s generating an income stream for me. I’m 68, so it’s not like I’ll be retiring super early. Hopefully, everything will be in place in a few months.

    The issue for me is that I’m extremely unhappy with my current job (hence reaching out to the advisor). I’m a proposal manager, and I’m tired of constantly feeling like I’m a firefighter waiting for the alarm to go off in the sense of waiting for RFPs to come out so we can work two or three weeks of really long days before the deadline for submission. It often means late nights, cancelling plans with friends, and letting the housework pile up while I’m chained to my laptop.

    We also just got a new boss who is, um, extremely energetic and wants to shake things up, and I just don’t have the energy for dealing with her. She’s now a layer of management between me and my old boss, who rejected most attempts I made to inject some actual process into our process, and her atttitude is, “OMG, this is the biggest mess I’ve ever walked into, and I must fix it ASAP.” Trust me, I would have fixed the process by now if I’d been allowed to, and I’m starting to get annoyed at the constant implications that I don’t know how to do my job. It’s one thing to say, “Let’s work together to make improvements” and another to throw me under the bus.

    I’m also probably dealing with some depression right now (seeing a counselor), and I also have some minor but nagging health issues that get neglected when work becomes crazy. I know I should let some of this stuff get to me when the end is in sight, but it’s really, really hard right now.

    So, my question is how do I hang on for another couple of months without losing my shit and tell people off? Because, really, there’s a couple of people I’d love to tell off right now.

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Mentally check out. Withdraw your emotional investment at work. Be a “yes man” to new boss. Who cares if they’re implying you don’t know how to do your job, you’re 6 months from freedom! Just get through it. You won’t need them as a reference ever, you won’t collaborate with them ever, you’ll never have to deal with this crap again. Work your wage.

      I’d also really challenge the need to work the last few months. Will 6 months income really make that much difference to your overall retirement?

      Reply ↓
      1. NMitford*

        I don’t think it’s going to be six months. Basically, what I need to do is roll my existing 401k accounts into a self-directed IRA that will provide a higher rate of return than some of the 401k plans now do and then wait till monthly payments start coming in. We live in the DC suburbs and have the mortgage to match, so I don’t want to dip too far into our savings if I can help it. We will, when my husband retires, move out of this area to a less expensive part of the state, but in the meantime we have the mortgage to pay and work to do to get the house ready for sale.

        Reply ↓
        1. Boggle*

          Stress can be a killer both mentally and physically especially when you feel like your hands are tied. Can you take some time off, or have frank discussion with your new manger about how you are feeling?

          I too have a 401K which I will be rolling over but could not do that until I actually retired. The money will always be there until you decide to do something with it, and while I understand you want to get your ducks in row now, not sure how you can if you are still employed and actively putting money into the 401k (with a company match, I assume?).

          I am working with a Vanguard personal advisor since my husband and I already have money market and brokerage accounts, to provide recommendations about where to move my 401K to get the best return. We had used financial planners in the past, but they never did much for us except take our money without much in return. Vanguard’s rates are better because you are working with a pool of advisors. Do you already have investments, or will your 401K be start of that process? Since I only recently retired, and I’m not of age to start collecting my SS or pension (a couple more years), I am using my savings for most things.

          Our mortgage has been paid off for a while, and (retired and collecting SS/pension) hubby will be covering most of the bills we do have (not my personals ones) until I start getting income. Have you talked to your husband about your concerns, can take on more of the mortgage until you start getting income from your investments?

          Reply ↓
    2. Goddess47*

      Go back to your investment person and ask what changes if you retire right now. Since you’re in good retirement shape, I’m assuming you’ll have some savings. You can start collecting your Social Security now. Again, the little difference a few months may make in your monthly check isn’t worth the hassle you’re going through at work.

      Get out while the getting out is better for you. And enjoy that retirement.

      Reply ↓
    3. anonymous worker ant*

      Number one is start prioritizing the health issues over the work! You’re not gunning for a promotion or anything, set a boundary of what you need for your health issues (and therapist) and keep it, even if it means less work gets done.

      Is there a reason that when the new boss talks about what a mess things are you can’t just give a theatrical sigh of relief and say, “I agree, I’m so happy to be able to work on improvements with you”? You don’t have to openly throw old boss under the bus in order to make it super clear that you have been trying and hoping to fix the mess for years.

      Reply ↓
    4. Cheap ass rolling with it*

      If you can mentally check out or have time waiting until the next fire, what about planning what you’d like to do for your retirement? Start thinking about the things you’d like to do, and then work out on details on how you could do them. It’ll give you something to look forward to.

      Reply ↓
    5. Parenthesis Guy*

      Don’t let them drive you crazy. Make sure to work 40 hours a week. If they fire you, you’ll get severance.

      Reply ↓
    7. Jules the First*

      Have you joined PIE? (Proposal Industry Experts) it’s the nontraditional community for proposal people where you can commiserate, celebrate, offer advice to people who will actually take it, and keep an eye out for freelance or remote positions. Wise elders are always welcome, but we’re not stuffy and square like APMP!

      Reply ↓
    8. My Cat is a Righteous Dude*

      Maybe look into taking FMLA for a while.

      Health problems justify that and it can give you enough of a break to hold on mentally until you can retire.

      Reply ↓
  38. RJK*

    Hey folks, kinda weird situation here that I’m wondering if anyone has experience with or tips.

    I work for a startup at which almost all of the employees are quite inexperienced and were hired right out of college — but they are eager and driven, most with STEM degrees from big-name schools. I really love and believe in the work, but there is really only one issue and that’s that I’m not sure how to meet the expectations of my role.

    Our founder and CEO, Steve, is a very highly respected veteran in our field, and our company is his passion project. He is its public face and oversees many of its operations. I am on a team of workers similar to in-house consultants who were brought in by Steve because he felt the very young group needed some experienced guidance to make sure their output was following industry best practices and generally competitive in the field. Unlike the other employees, our team largely does not have fancy degrees (some of us did not even finish college), but we all have at least a decade of experience working at multiple established companies in this field and deep knowledge of the relevant subject matter. All teams, under the policy Steve implemented, are required to have one of us check over and sign off on any projects they complete before sending them off. Steve is the one who recruited, interviewed, and onboarded me, and he told me throughout the process that he expected me to rigorously review and rework these projects to bring them to a high standard. That was basically my final one-on-one interaction with Steve, however; he spends the majority of his time out meeting clients and investors, is not really involved our day-to-day, and is usually very hard to get hold of. Elizabeth, a VP a few levels down from Steve, is our direct manager.

    When I got started, however, I quickly learned that a whole bunch the company despises our team. When we make significant changes to their projects, we overhear engineers and PMs complaining that we are old representatives of the establishment stuck in our old ways who just aren’t ready for their new ideas. (To be clear, the generational gap here is not massive: Most of these employees are in their early-mid 20s, my team is mostly mid-30s.) There is a widespread belief that it’s unfair that these employees have to have overseers — especially overseers perceived to lack prestigious “credentials — sign off on their projects when that’s not the setup at XYZ Competitor Company (despite the fact that the engineers at XYZ Competitor Company have decades more experience). Engineers will go out of their way to have their projects checked by members of our team who are perceived to be less critical.

    The problem is that Elizabeth, who has also never worked anywhere except this startup, appears to me to be more on the engineers’ side than she is on Steve’s side when it comes to her thoughts on our team. She doesn’t seem to want anything to do with us and never speaks to us unless we’re in trouble; she doesn’t do team meetings, 1-on-1s, or performance reviews. A few months ago, after I’d had to spend a lot of time fixing a project that was littered with problems, I heard she’d gone around complaining to multiple employees that I’d “held up” the process. The consultant she clearly considers to be her star performer, Ron, is one who quickly glances at projects, signs them off without changing anything, and otherwise watches YouTube all day; the engineers sing his praises to her because he “doesn’t get in their way,” and Elizabeth now has him training all the new hires and tutoring her nephew on weekends.

    While Elizabeth is my direct manager, my understanding is that Steve, as the CEO, does also have a say in all hiring and firing decisions. So, should I do what Steve said he wanted and rigorously edit these projects, or should I do what Elizabeth seems to want and just sign them off without getting in the engineers’ way?

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      To be honest this sounds strange. If he needed managers to manage the team, he should have hired you as managers. I’m not surprised if people don’t like this. If these inexperienced workers are so inept, Steve shouldn’t have hired them.

      Reply ↓
      1. RJK*

        It’s largely a money thing — seasoned engineers in our field are wildly expensive and Steve can’t afford a staff full of them on a startup budget. The hires here are quite smart, and certainly not inept, but they are very new

        Reply ↓
    2. MsM*

      I think unless you’re willing and able to get in front of Steve (ideally alongside as many of your colleagues as you can round up) and convince him that leadership needs to throw more weight behind establishing a company culture where standards and best practices matter as much as innovation, you need to assume Elizabeth’s approach is the one that holds sway in practice. There’s a chance that at some point Steve will decide to pop his head in and you’ll get thrown under the bus if he’s annoyed things aren’t being done his way. But given how hands-off he’s been, I think it’s less likely than the possibility that if he is weighing in on your continued employment, it’ll be based on whatever gets reported to him via Elizabeth and he won’t bother to investigate more thoroughly. And you should probably keep your eye out for other opportunities regardless, because it’s not great being in a situation where you’ve been asked to make changes but aren’t being given the tools or institutional backing to do so.

      Reply ↓
    3. Strive to Excel*

      It seems to be a truth that no one likes QA, no matter the industry or size of the company. The solution to that is having a manager back you up when you say “please make X, Y, and Z changes”. You do not have that – you have a manager who things QA is unnecessary.

      Is there any way you can document what changes you believe should be made to the projects without delaying the process?

      Reply ↓
    5. Toads*

      It sounds like your time at this company will be very tough. Working in a situation like what you’ve described is draining and it gets old really fast. If I were in your shoes, I’d be looking to move on at the first reasonable opportunity. If you have the ability to schedule a skip-level with the CEO, you could try asking him how he’d like you handle it, but I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything to radically improve. I’m sorry you got sucked into a bad situation there. This probably isn’t the issue and might be something you’re already very familiar with, but in case you aren’t, the blog post series How to do Code Reviews Like a Human (2 part series by m t lynch) is fantastic and there might be some ideas that you could steal to make things slightly more bearable while you job search. (But you might already be doing all of this, and if the early career folks are convinced that they know everything they need to know, you might not be able to make headway no matter what approach you take.)

      Reply ↓
    6. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Can you try to meet with Elizabeth to try to explain to her why your role is important? Ideally, come with examples of things you’ve reviewed and tell her what the risks were if your changes weren’t implemented. Hopefully, she’ll be receptive. If not, you can go to Steve and be able to tell him honestly that you discussed this with Elizabeth and the two of you are not on the same page about what your role is and how important the QA processes are to the company’s success.

      Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable signing off on something I didn’t believe in, and it sounds like you wouldn’t either. From a practical standpoint, if a project you signed off on is an epic fail because of a flaw you should have identified, you’re going to get thrown under the bus.

      In terms of process, is there any opportunity for you and your team to be involved in the projects at an earlier stage? Can they present an outline or a spec or something earlier on, which would allow you to ask questions like “what are you thinking about dealing with X problem?” I’d be pretty unhappy, too, if I was working in a process where every time I thought I was basically ready to submit, there were a bunch of things that I was told I needed to change. Even if you’re 100% right about the changes, it still sucks as an experience and ends up being really inefficient. I’ve had to push at my organization to get us to do outlines and get them reviewed for some things, to avoid situations where we have to totally redo something because expectations, constraints, etc., were not made clear to the people doing the work.

      Reply ↓
  39. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

    Good news-
    My husband (laid off in November) accepted a job offer this week!

    It had been really demoralizing for him that there was basically nothing happening in November or December, just sending in a million applications for radio silence. Understandable that it was due to holidays, but still hard to handle. But then things picked up in January, and he actually had to choose between two good offers so that felt much better.

    Reply ↓
  40. Dovima*

    I posted a couple times about my situation taking over a position from Pat, who moved on to a new, more strategic position. I posted an update or two–just to briefly refresh, Pat was not letting go of the position, and my boss, my boss’s boss, and Pat’s boss were basically doing nothing.

    The final update is not good. I won’t get into all the details of what I did and what happened next. I will say that for the person who gave me the useful idea of asking about metrics and how my progress would be measured, well, I never even got to bring up that talking point. Someone on my first post used some wording that they probably didn’t really think that deeply about saying “nobody can upset Pat.” Well, whoever that was, that really summed up the situation. Pat is not just holding on to what should have been my position, but in their new role, they are way overstepping into departmental issues that should not be their purview. Again, my boss, my boss’s boss, and Pat’s boss are doing nothing. Pat is our Elon Musk. Pat has no positional authority, no supervisory authority, and does not secure our funding, but Pat controls our funding and can cut it off if we displease them. So. Everybody tiptoes around Pat. Yes, it’s bad.
    Pat’s former position went to someone else, two people who are way junior to me and don’t have the project management background that I have. Pat picked them out (remember how Pat has no positional authority and is overstepping into departmental issues that should not be their purview?).
    So I told my boss’s boss that I will creating an exit strategy from the department, and it’s not just that Pat is a huge problem, it’s that my boss and boss’s boss and the next boss up are a problem for allowing Pat to be Elon Musk.
    Bummer. I wish I could say that I advocated for myself and got somewhere, but that was not the outcome.

    Reply ↓
    1. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      At least you recognized that the dynamic was messed up instead of feeling like you had to take responsibility for it. Best of luck in your next chapter.

      Reply ↓
      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Yes, realizing that you’re in a bad situation that’s unlikely to change and making moves to get out counts as a win!

        Reply ↓
  41. Potatohead*

    How persistent should I be about pursuing a promised raise? I was hired at my current job roughly 5 months ago – when I was signing the paperwork, I was told that after my 90-day probationary period passed I would get a small ($1.00) raise. 90 days came and went, I got my performance evaluation, but no sign of the expected pay adjustment.

    Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, when I emailed Payroll inquiring as to the status. Payroll told me to talk to my department manager, who said Payroll had passed the request to the CFO to sign off on, with no response. I asked my coworker who was hired the same say I was and they got their raise at the end of December, 6 weeks ago.

    How long should I wait before talking to my manager again? The money isn’t life or death but I’m running a very tiny surplus most months so more would be helpful.

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Email Payroll and your boss at same time, paper trail and loops them in together.

      Hi Payroll person name, per our conversation on date I asked boss about the raise. Boss says it was passed on to you already. What do we need to do to get this resolved? It should have been in affect on date.

      Reply ↓
    2. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      I would bring it up now. Ask what the timeline is. I’d also be pushing for it to be reroactive to the promised date.

      Reply ↓
      1. Potatohead*

        Should I ask my manager to reach out to Payroll and CC me instead?

        I had nothing in writing about this until I sent the follow-up inquiry email – when I spoke to my manager 2 weeks ago he said that an email he was CCed on went from Payroll to the CFO asking about the status but hadn’t seen a response.

        Reply ↓
        1. WellRed*

          To what purpose? Just email boss and payroll together. If you leave it up to your boss, it might drag on even longer.

          Reply ↓
    3. Yes And*

      Follow up with every paycheck in which you don’t get the raise. Do it politely, do it kindly, do it assuming the best intentions on their part, but do it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. And when they do put the raise through, it should be retroactive. You shouldn’t be out money you were promised because their bureaucracy is slow.

      Reply ↓
      1. Potatohead*

        You have an excellent point. I think I’m just skittish about being new and lacking any social capital to spend.

        Either way, I fired off an email as suggested so I’ll have to wait and see.

        Reply ↓
        1. WellRed*

          Keep us updated. (Also, asking for money you were promised isn’t using social capital. Awkward and scary, but it’s yours).

          Reply ↓
  42. Trying not to panic, largely failing*

    Longtime reader, first-time commenter!! My partner is a federal employee, so… it’s been a week.

    My partner has a PhD and two decades of experience in academia and government research. They’d like to explore job openings in think tanks. How long should a cover letter be for a research job at a senior/leadership level? My partner thinks that because they’d be applying for fairly senior jobs that ask for a research background, the typical academic cover letter of 2 full pages talking about all your most important papers is what they’re looking for. But a few months ago they got rejected from a think tank job that seemed like a great fit and I can’t help wondering if one reason was the cover letter. (I used to work at a nonprofit that hired a lot of career-changing academics, and long academic-style cover letters were definitely not seen as a plus for applicants. But maybe that’s unusual?)

    Reply ↓
    1. Wellie*

      Your partner is going to get rejected from a whole slew of jobs that seem like a great fit. Do not over think this. Yes, put work into a good resume and cover letter, but you *cannot* obsess over every job they get rejected from. Let it go.

      But also, put the papers in the CV and give a highlights reel that covers the general topic area, eg, cover some highlights of compound semiconductor research but for the love of god, do not list the chemical formulation of every damn material they worked on. Just say III-V and II-VI or whatever.

      Reply ↓
      1. Trying not to panic, largely failing*

        Oh, for sure!! I think it’s going to be a long road to the right fit and I know it’s important to apply and then mentally let it go unless/until you get an interview call. I guess my question was really about the appropriate cover letter length for future job applications.

        Reply ↓
    2. Kay*

      TWO FULL PAGES!?!? FOR A COVER LETTER!?!? Admittedly this isn’t my industry, but my work does span many industries (including scientific/research/non profit/government) and this… just isn’t part of any I’ve ever seen. I would cut that cover letter down and maybe focus more on trying to network in the industry and getting a feel that way.

      Reply ↓
  43. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    I got laid off this week, along with almost everybody else in the company.

    Good news: I am amazed at how quickly my network popped into existence after posting about this on LinkedIn. Literally people from 10 years ago. Plus all of us who were laid off have been sharing leads.

    My question for recent job seekers/getters – what is working for you with resumes for any positions that I apply to cold. Especially for engineers/developers/technical PMs. Should I be sprinkling lots of languages and technologies into my resume for each project & position, or just have a single skills section?

    Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. Wellie*

      I toss the lingo into the project description, eg:
      * Created computational fluid dynamics (CFD) models in MATLAB
      * Managed workflow for team of four using JIRA
      etc

      Reply ↓
    2. Generic Name*

      I’m in a technical/scientific field and I got a new job in the last 2 years. I also review resumes and conduct interviews for my department. I suggest doing both. For each position, list what you did in that role and what software/language/whatever technical thingy applies and also have a summary “skills” section at the bottom where you gather together the skills that you think sell you best/that you want to keep working in. The skills section doesn’t need to be just technical skills. If you have technical writing or project management skills, you can include those in that section as well. Also note that the “2 page limit” for resumes seems to not be a thing anymore. I used a 2 page resume, and I think it actually hurt me because I chopped off like half of my experience and was therefore hired in a lower level role than I should have been. (Luckily, my company quickly realized what I can do and promoted me within a year.) For the current position I’m helping hire for, I’m seeing plenty of 3 and 4 and even 5 page resumes.

      Reply ↓
      1. Wellie*

        I got an 18 page resume at my last position. No sh!t, it took me three sittings to get through the whole thing. Only a couple pages were publications, the rest was a sh!tton of detail about the jobs. He had a 30-40 year career, but still, man, way too much. We made fun of it, but we still read it.

        Reply ↓
    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      I always look to see a technical skills section at the bottom of the resume that lists all the systems etc that you’ve used.

      Reply ↓
  44. dude, who moved my cheese?*

    Alison, after learning about the job “menopause champion” in this week’s menopause-at-work letter, I would LOVE if to see an interview with one. The EAP interview was so interesting and useful.

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I don’t think you understood what they meant by menopause champion. It’s not a real job or anything. It’s someone who is trying to talk about menopause ad such at work, and is using it as an excuse for errors and such. It’s not going to be like the EAP interview. It’s not going to be helpful in any way.

      Reply ↓
      1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

        No, I understood. The job “menopause champion” is a real job that someone mentioned in the comments; I encourage you to Google it if you want to know more. It’s not referring to the subject of the letter (a woman navigating a real health issue and briefly referencing the actions she is taking to address it effectively). I hope you see some cat content that makes your day better.

        Reply ↓
  45. notproudofthis*

    A coworker of mine got an insanely rude email from a customer. I’m not proud of this, but I left them a rude review in return about their poor manners (nothing linking me to my business). I know this wasn’t a good idea; how do I let go of people being rude?

    Reply ↓
    2. Amber Rose*

      Deep breath.

      Remember that they have chosen to be rude and you can’t make them choose not to be.

      But you can choose to not let them live rent-free in your head, raising your blood pressure and ruining your day. That’s giving way more power than they deserve to have.

      I don’t think what you did was all that bad, but paying like with like doesn’t really solve anything and clearly doesn’t seem to have made you feel better.

      Reply ↓
  46. Landry*

    This is more of a rant, but it’s so frustrating to see a woman in the workplace dumb herself down. I work with but don’t report to a manager who’s probably in her mid-50s. I’ve come to realize through my own observations and talking to others that she relishes playing the “dumb blonde” role. When she has to get involved in a certain type of project, she LOVES to giggle and say, “Oh, I don’t know how to do that” and then refuse to learn. I would understand if she needed to be reminded of a few things, but this is a complete voluntary ignorance of our processes. It makes her a less effective manager than she would otherwise be, especially since she supervises a very young team, almost all of whom are female. Plus, I’m getting the growing sense that other managers have finally started to notice and are annoyed by it.

    On the flip side, it makes me more grateful that I had such smart, strong female role models both in my personal and professional lives when I was younger.

    Reply ↓
    1. Discombobulated and Tired*

      I hear you! I used to work with a woman who I knew was intelligent, but she talked in baby talk and said ridiculous things she had to have known were untrue. I always felt she was “letting down the side” and a terrible role model.

      Reply ↓
    2. Ms. Norbury*

      That does sound annoying and it would bother me as well. Not a path I exactly recommend, but I usually deal with people who do weaponized incompetence (I can’t do it, it’s too difficult, I’m not smart enough, etc.) by reacting as if they have just sadly admited an isecurity. So I cheer them on and say that of course they can do it, they’re so capable, they really should give it a try! It’s usually effective for marking me as unsatisfying audience.

      Reply ↓
  47. Chrissy*

    Okay, I’m kind of embarrassed to be posting this question but here goes lol

    I have a role similar to that of a copy editor. Our company publishes reports written by a number of different writers across various teams. Before each report is published, I review and make changes to it for things like structure, grammar, flow, formatting, factual accuracy, and adherence to style guidelines. However, I am not these writers’ manager; I am either lateral to or junior to all of them (common arrangement in our field). So if a writer disagrees with a change I make, I don’t actually have the authority to override them; the two of us are expected to work it out between ourselves (which can occasionally get quite heated) and a higher-up is occasionally called in if we really can’t reach an agreement.

    One of these writers, Jane, has also become a good friend friend. We’re two of very few female, non-white employees in an office that is almost all older white men. I’m also fairly new to our city, so I have no family and only a few friends here right now. She has been an incredible support system for me, and I probably wouldn’t still be in this job or city if it weren’t for her; I’ve helped her through periods of work-related stress as well.

    But I do worry that this could make me less objective towards Jane’s reports. Recently I made a structural change to a project of hers that she strongly disagreed with. In the moment, I decided to just revert the change because I feared getting into a contentious argument that could impact our friendship. But I started stressing after that my change was correct and that had it been another writer, I might’ve held my ground.

    Part of me thinks this this is evidence that I shouldn’t be working on Jane’s reports since we’re friends. But I’m also not in any kind of actual position of power over her and we’re not even on the same team, just in two roles that occasionally interact. Is it an ethical problem for any two coworkers in roles with the potential to butt heads to be friends? Or do I just need to do a better job of separating my work relationship with Jane from our personal friendship? IDK, I’m stressing about this up and down. Any thoughts appreciated.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Yeah, I think you need to just remind yourself that if all it takes to shatter your friendship is a disagreement over copy, it isn’t really strong enough to be risking your job or integrity over. But maybe it’s also an opportunity to step back and ask yourself what really does warrant standing your ground: factual inaccuracies are one thing, but if it’s something more subjective like flow, maybe it’s best to just let that go and focus on making sure the piece is up to basic standards.

      Reply ↓
    2. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      What is the impact if the reports aren’t right? Are these reports important to the company’s revenue? Or are they a nice-to-have, something the client might or might not read? It may be worth taking a step back and getting to a place in your own head where you can stay calm and realize that nobody really cares if section III isn’t indented three spaces or whatever. You can make your case ONCE — “I thought it was interesting that you structured it that way, but I’m pretty sure our audience prefers to see the methodology before the results” — and then, as one writer of my acquaintance used to say, “let the Wookiee win.”

      Reply ↓
    3. HonorBox*

      Are there any specific guidelines you are following as you make changes, and any specific guidelines the writers are to be following as they prepare the reports? If not, could you create some, with approval from your boss?

      If you’re having “quite heated” disagreements, that’s not good. Your relationship with Jane aside, you shouldn’t have any sort of heated disagreement with your coworkers, and you shouldn’t have to worry that your changes will change your relationship with any of your coworkers. If you disagree on a word choice that’s one things. But you should be able to point to some standards when you’re suggesting changes.

      Reply ↓
      1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        Well, I used to have a similar job, and when I would make a suggested change, I would sometimes get attitude back from certain people. “Are you telling me how to write my report?!” I mean, kind of (formatting for clarity), but also no (you decide what needs to be in there). People are often tetchy about editors editing their copy.

        Reply ↓
    4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Have you talked with Jane about your concerns. Maybe have a conversation about this situation and ask her for her opinion. She might have felt similarly and worried she was being to argumentative. Maybe you can have a mutual understanding.

      Reply ↓
  48. pope suburban*

    I had to ask about my salary for my new job because there was a significant difference between what was advertised and what they tried to pay me, despite my exceeding all their requirements. I wasn’t rude or upset, I framed it as a check-in to see what was going on and I let my experience speak for itself. But the HR person, who is also part owner of the company, was really upset about it. I can’t control that and I’m happy they honored what they’d put in the posting, but her increasing criticism of and poor attitude toward me is frustrating and concerning. It’s a small business and will be the last one I work for, because I’m concerned that no matter how much I try to manage her feelings, she’s going to take exception. No one else has had any problem as far as I can tell, but she has expressed resentment over my pay explicitly once this week, and has gone from cordial to critical and condescending, even over tasks she has openly told many people she does not know about. I’m not sure it’s at the level of retaliation just yet, but I don’t like the direction this is going, especially since I was prepared to accept that they could continue lowballing me (I was incredibly noncommittal in the discussion and really conscious about framing it as I’m interested in the work and not leaving, but wanted to touch base on this).

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      Can you reactivate your job search? This doesn’t bode well, it never is good when a company tries to pay less than promised and stay bit toxic when they complain about your salary.

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        Sorry I missed where you said you don’t plan to leave. But if she’s an owner is there another owner you can talk to, if needed?

        Reply ↓
        1. pope suburban*

          Oh no, I am still following up on jobs that I had leads on before I accepted this, because you’re right. When I talked to her at first, I was disappointed but trying to keep an open mind because clerical errors do happen and she’s not a HR professional with a full team, she’s one person who learned this to grow the business. The work is interesting enough to me and I could foresee enough avenues for development that I was willing to stay even struggling to afford food. But based on this outsize reaction, I think it’s prudent to keep a weather eye out for other work. It’s just baffling that she’s taking it so personally when I framed it as, hey, here’s this number, here’s this resume of mine, here’s what was budgeted – did anything change with that? I’m not even sure how conscious she is of it, but that’s also not great. I’m working on scheduling a video interview with a big company’s local office next week. The pay is perhaps not as good, but the location is better and they offer hybrid work, so…we’ll see. I appreciate the confirmation that my gut is not wrong and that this may not be a long-term position even if I’d hoped otherwise.

          Reply ↓
          1. pope suburban*

            Also yes, there is another owner, and he doesn’t seem to have any of the problems she does. They’re a married couple, he does the technical stuff and she runs the admin side. As far as I can tell, he has no problem with me or my work, or the fact that I asked for clarification (Though God knows how she framed it to him, but I try not to think about that because it’s out of my hands). He’s still giving me assignments and providing direct feedback; he’s been really helpful in the getting-oriented process. As far as I can tell, he approached the situation from the same brass-tacks perspective as I did, which would fit with his technical background and direct communication style. I’ve been focusing on maintaining a good attitude and positive relationships with everyone else, but having the part owner and HR person so personally upset with me and weirdly hostile is unsettling.

            Reply ↓
          2. WellRed*

            Yeah some business owners take it real personally when employees want to work for money. And how did I know you were going to tell me it was a husband and wife team. There is other interesting work out there somewhere for you.

            Reply ↓
            1. pope suburban*

              That’s where I ended up too, unfortunately. Everyone else here is great and they’ve been very welcoming, but if there was going to be one person irrationally upset with me, it being the owner/HR person is a bit of a deal breaker. My plan at this point is to keep my head down, still do my best work, stay copacetic with everyone else, and get out as soon as I have something that will offer me actual stability. I don’t want to be premature but I also don’t want to be the frog in the boiling pot again; I did that for three years once and it damn near killed me. Not again.

              Reply ↓
  49. DisneyChannelThis*

    Anyone have good phrasing for like the sentiment ‘ your project is not as important as you think it is’ ? Ouch. Obviously avoiding that. But I’m getting push back when telling people their request is going to take longer than normal, as we have some urgent deadline projects ahead of them.

    I work in data science, I do analysis. My boss approved the order I’m doing stuff in, but telling people “sure I can run that for you, just a heads up it will be done next week, this week we’re all hands on deck for paper re-submission” doesn’t seem to be working.

    “Well I have a meeting with my boss tomorrow and it’d be nice to show this data”,
    ” Sure I’ll tell my own bosses you’re the hold up on this” (tone was vaguely threatening?),
    “But we submitted this a month ago to other department” (who didn’t get their portion done and to my department until today so really not my problem)

    The person who was really polite about it and said “no rush!” has immediately jumped to the top of the queue for projects of that level urgency :D

    Reply ↓
    1. Alex*

      I think just not responding to passive-aggressive comments like these is best–you aren’t going to convince people like that that they should be patient. Give them a realistic time you can get it done and then stop responding, since comments like these aren’t really questions that need a response.

      Reply ↓
    2. Amber Rose*

      “I’m sorry but the priority list for requests has been authorized by our manager and can’t be changed at this time.”

      Something like that?

      Reply ↓
    3. HR Exec Popping In*

      Just nicely tell them that unfortunately you have other higher priority requests that you are working on. If you can, let them know when you can reasonably get to their project.

      Reply ↓
    4. Trying not to panic, largely failing*

      Would your boss be OK with you invoking their name, since they approved your work order? “Just a heads up, we won’t get to this until next week, Boss’s Name wants us to finish paper re-submission before starting new projects.” The subtext is that it’s out of your hands to start anything earlier.

      Reply ↓
      1. DisneyChannelThis*

        My boss doesn’t like interruptions from other people haha but yeah if they continue that’s the best plan I have.

        Reply ↓
      2. Charlotte Lucas*

        This. I do comms work and closer, unmissable deadlines or a Higher Authority will always win out over someone’s “it would be nice to have this because X.”

        Just be as matter-of-fact as possible. Reasonable people will understand. Unreasonable people will have to learn a valuable lesson in delaying gratification.

        Reply ↓
    5. MsM*

      “If you need to copy me on any messages explaining the timeline, or have your bosses talk to my boss, do what you gotta do. But keep in mind, the more time I have to spend on those conversations, the longer it’s going to take before I can get started on this.”

      Reply ↓
    6. Nesprin*

      “sure I can run that for you, just a heads up it will be done next week, this week we’re all hands on deck for paper re-submission”
      “Well I have a meeting with my boss tomorrow and it’d be nice to show this data”

      “Yep, understood. Unfortunately, we’re swamped till next week. If you really need this done sooner, our rush fees are X, and we’d have to run it by my boss to authorize rush work.”

      Reply ↓
    7. cmdrspacebabe*

      Do you have an official service standard you can point to? I’d usually fall back on that rather than citing a specific other priority – sometimes that just gets people defensive about how their project is high-priority too, or ‘it’ll only take a minute’, or whatever. If you don’t give them anything that specific, they can’t use it as an ‘in’ to argue with you.

      “We received it on [date] and our process does take [timeframe], so with our service standard, the soonest we can provide it is [date]. If that date will cause serious operational issues (or whatever phrasing fits), you can reach out to [boss] to request a priority change.” (It wouldn’t hurt to have a pre-drafted list of criteria to fall back on either.)

      I try to avoid over-explanation or placation – the former leaves room for discussion; the latter signals that you’re receptive to their complaining and perhaps even agree that they should be annoyed. Fluff it up enough that you don’t seem dismissive, but beyond that, all they’re owed is a neutral statement of ‘here’s what I can do; here’s what you can do about it (contact someone who is Not Me)’.

      Reply ↓
    8. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Or, “Take it up with Esmeralda, she sets my priorities and I need to follow what she tells me to do.”

      Reply ↓
    9. HonorBox*

      You know more than they do about the urgency and importance of other projects. Your answer is fine, but you can also emphasize a little more that what you’re working on is more important.

      “I have directive from above me that (project) is priority number 1, so I’ll be able to get that to you on (day).” Put the emphasis on there being a directive from above you. If someone is going to reply to that, place the onus on your boss. “I don’t have the ability to change priorities. This is coming down from above me.” If someone wants to tell their bosses that you’re holding something up, they can take it up with your boss.

      Reply ↓
  50. noncommitally anonymous*

    My former boss’s position is finally about to be posted. I’ve been doing her job along with mine for about the past 8 months. After much consideration, I’ve decided to go ahead and apply once it’s really posted.

    I’d like to approach my former boss as a reference. I think she’d be willing, but I’m feeling insecure about it. I approached her recently for her new institution to participate in an event that I’m trying to put together and get funding for, and she said no. Admittedly, the new institution is Federal and part of NIH, so there’s all kinds of reasons for them to be hesitant to agree to participate that have nothing whatever to do with her personal feelings about me, but, for some reason, I’m kinda taking this personally. She would be a very valuable reference, since it’s her former job I would be taking, so I need to psych myself up to go ahead and ask.

    I guess I’m just looking for reassurance that it’s OK to request a reference from someone I used to work for. I’m not quite sure who else to ask.

    Reply ↓
    1. Tomi*

      There’s no harm in asking! Especially if she’s a valuable reference. If she says no, or doesn’t have the time, at least you’ll know you gave it a shot.

      Reply ↓
    2. Blarg*

      If you asked her to participate in something in the last two weeks, you’re lucky she said no vs saying nothing at all. All the different components of federal agencies are handling the “no external comms” dictate a bit differently. Plus, assuming you’re in the private sector and she’s now in the public sector, even a month ago, there may have been conflict of interest issues, waiting periods, etc. I wouldn’t take it personally BUT might be mindful of the additional challenges federal employees may have even in normal times to maintain objectivity, fairness, etc.

      Reply ↓
    3. HonorBox*

      I wouldn’t think of the event participation and the job reference as equal. Job reference is something she can say yes to without anyone else’s approval, without need to weigh resources like time and money, and without much effort.

      I wouldn’t make reference to the event request at all, either. Just ask like you would anyone else.

      Reply ↓
  51. J*

    asking jobs for an update:

    Hello. I’ve recently completed several final rounds interviews and am patiently awaiting responses. One job has selected me and sent a tentative offer, and I am waiting on responses from two others. I would like to know if I am still being considered and what the offers are before fully committing. Is it acceptable to call and ask? How would you recommend doing this?

    for context, the job that selected me is a federal position (which will include lots of waiting and uncertainty given current events); one job has seemingly ghosted me and it’s been about three weeks with no response; the third job said in the final interview to expect a decision this week / today. I want to be respectful and patient to everyone, and I have been- but I’d like to consider all the options before default accepting the one offer.

    thank you for your help in all of this.

    Reply ↓
    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      Let them know that you are currently in the process of evaluating offers. If they are serious about you as a candidate that will get you a response.

      Reply ↓
    2. Wellie*

      Yes, it is perfectly acceptable to contact them and say you have received an offer and would like to know if they have made any decisions before you accept it. Since it is a tentative fed offer and it will take a couple weeks to get the final offer, you have some options regarding waiting a little bit longer vs contacting them right away. They typically want to know when you need to respond to the offer, and if you say it’s still a month off, they might not act with alacrity.

      Reply ↓
    3. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      I recommend emailing, not calling, but it’s definitely acceptable to reach out to the other two jobs and say you have an offer from another job that you need to respond to by (date) but remain very interested in this role, and were wondering if they could give you any updates on the process/timeline so you can make an informed decision.

      Reply ↓
    4. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      The other thing you might do, if it makes sense at any point, is to accept the Fed offer but also keep talking to the others. The Feds are notoriously slow even in normal times and are used to losing candidates because they take too long.

      Reply ↓
  52. Rara Avis*

    Tomorrow I have to attend a full-day professional development event that starts with a 2-hour presentation on a topic I have zero interest in — at 8 a.m. I had a flu 10 days ago that left me with a lingering cough that is wearing me out — I am so exhausted that I tend to fall asleep when I sit still. What can I do to stay awake and attentive while sitting in very close quarters theater-style seating (no desk, very little elbow room, no food or drink allowed, so no coffee)? Share your favorite tricks, please! (Staying home isn’t really an option; I missed the event two years running, and my boss knows I’m not sick, just stuck in this allergic rhinitis cough cycle.)

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      Doodle? I’d also probably bring water and let them take it away. Jokes on them when you can’t soothe a coughing fit.

      Reply ↓
    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      When I struggle, I elect to stand in the back of the room. If someone asks you can say you back is bothering you – nobody is going to force someone with a bad back sit for hours. Good luck.

      Reply ↓
      1. HonorBox*

        This. Perfect. I do have a bad back and often will stand, but also will “need to stand because of my back” when I am a little bored in situations like this.

        While I wouldn’t recommend this otherwise, is there a quiet game you could play on your phone like solitaire?

        Also… no food or drink? No coffee at 8am. That’s downright rude.

        Reply ↓
      2. Rusty Shackelford*

        Or tell them “I’m having trouble shaking this cough, and I need to be able to step out if it gets disruptive.” And do just that.

        Reply ↓
    3. WorkerDrone*

      Make a point of getting there early enough to get a seat near the back, on the aisle. If you start getting drowsy, quietly excuse yourself to the restroom and stretch, splash water on your face, or just skip the restroom and take a quick 2 minute walk to get the blood flowing.

      Also, I suggest you hide a red bull in the bathroom like you’re a government spy hiding a weapon. Duct-taped to the back of a mirror or something LOL.

      Reply ↓
    4. Pocket Mouse*

      Couch drops, one after the other. Unwrap them ahead of time.

      Or… is it plausible for you to have car trouble and get there, oh, let’s say an hour and forty minutes late? Text whoever needs to know at the time you’d usually leave your home, and gosh, glad to be able to catch the end of the morning presentation, at least!

      Reply ↓
    5. My Brain is Exploding*

      Hard candies. If you can’t bring food, then just take something like Ricola, which read as “cough drops.” You can also bring some hard candies in your pocket, but unwrap them first! Nothing like the noise of a crinkly wrapper to draw attention to yourself. And yes, standing in the back. Or sitting by a colleague who will nudge you if you start to drool or fall over. Ask to sit on the aisle “in case I have a coughing fit.” Then if you are super tired, have that coughing fit and get up to leave so as not to disturb others, and then get a drink and walk around

      Reply ↓
    6. Cordelia*

      Your cough is your friend here! Sit at the end of the row, say its in case you have a coughing fit. Then, have a coughing fit (real or staged), and politely leave the room to avoid disturbing anyone. Walk around outside for a bit, coughing dramatically. Repeat as needed.

      Reply ↓
    7. Qwerty*

      Make sure to sit up and take some deep breaths every 20ish minutes. When we sit for long periods, our posture goes downhill and impedes how much oxygen we’re getting resulting in sleepiness. This will be worse for you.

      Subtle motions like tapping your toes slowly (bonus points if you can do this within your shoe) will help keep blood flowing to keep you awake plus is a way to fidget without bothering anyone.

      Try to force some interest in the topic so your brain stays engaged. Tell yourself you need to write down 10 interesting facts or something like that.

      Reply ↓
    8. thebandtrain*

      If there’s no option to stand- lift one foot off the ground, even a half inch or so, and hold it up, you will not fall asleep.

      Reply ↓
  53. Nila*

    I moved to France after living in the US for 12 years. I am originally from middle east and I got my masters and PhD (microbiology) in the US, and did a postdoc. Basically, all of my professional network is in the US and in academia. I am trying to switch to jobs in industry in France, and I have been applying online. I just feel so lost here. The few people in my field that I know here are all academics, and I have 0 friends or family. We just hang out with my husband’s friends (all academics in a different field). It’s been 3 months and my morales are super low. I feel trapped and I think I can never find a job here. Most job postings are either for technicians or for people with years of experience in industry. At this point I am open to anything (jobs in biotech, pharma, food, startups, consulting, etc). Any tips? I really appreciate it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sterling*

      Do any professional organizations or networks you were previously part of (or even just familiar with) have chapters in France? I’d start there.

      I was in a very similar situation when I first moved to my current country. I ended up landing my current job after reaching out to the president of the local chapter of the American Association of Teapot Painters (ex.) asking if any of their members would be willing to chat with me about how they’d gotten started working here. They put me in touch with someone who happened to know someone who was looking to hire an English-speaking teapot painter, and things fell into place from there.

      Reply ↓
  54. Tradd*

    I hope Alison will let me post a second time today. As a customs broker I am licensed by US Customs (CBP). I’ve had this license for more than a decade and it is essential to higher earning power. However, I am increasingly nervous with the new administration and their many minions online. I post on my own FB page about the challenges of the job with the tariff whiplash, explanations about the de minimus thing affecting ecommerce from China, etc. It’s informational. People whose political leanings I was not aware of have suddenly been making comments that make me very concerned. Basically, any comments even slightly against the new administration are not to be tolerated. I’m single and don’t have a partner to lean on. I scrubbed FB of any mention of the recent tariff stuff and I won’t be talking about work at all.

    Is anyone else going through something like this? If I shut down my social media I would be very isolated. I have blocked the troublesome people.

    Reply ↓
    1. Tradd*

      Forgot to add: I shut my LinkedIn page down a while back due to the site being a mess now. I don’t list my employer’s name anywhere online.

      Reply ↓
    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      “Don’t comply in advance” is a phrase getting passed around at my work. Continue to share and have opinions.

      But I would lock down your named social media to people you know and continue blocking anyone giving you crap. You don’t need internet trolls being able to trace you back to your workplace and home address.

      Make a second social media not under your real name (instagram or reddit etc might be a better platform than Facebook which tends to use real names). Socialize with the wider internet that way. Also don’t use the same name on several platforms, because then if you get doxxed on one platform it can follow you quickly.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tradd*

        My named social media is both FB/IG. They’re locked down. Just went through friends list and pared out a few more people. I have a Reddit account I never use so downloaded the app and logged on. Name is totally anonymous so I’m good there. Thanks for the suggestions! My workplace name is not posted anywhere online by me, so that’s already taken care of.

        Reply ↓
        1. Goldfeesh*

          Bluesky has gotten decently big. If you aren’t on that you could come on with a totally fresh start and anonymity.

          Reply ↓
    3. A federal employee*

      Yes. I’m going through this. I don’t actually post about my job or politics on FB. I don’t think my FB even shows I am a federal employee.

      But I’m openly queer on FB. That’s enough to worry me now.

      And I have probably laughed at or liked a few friends political posts.

      Scary times!

      Reply ↓
  55. Zurg*

    The IT company I’ve worked at for 30+ years was recently acquired by an advertising company. The parent company just announced an extra week off in the summer for all employees. Awesome! Except our IT clients already thought we had too many days off. Now we have 25 paid company holidays in the US each year.

    I’m thankful for the time off, but it’s embarrassing to tell our mostly Fortune 500 clients that we have twice the vacation days they do.

    This is banana pants, right?

    Reply ↓
    1. hello!*

      This is weird to me. My partner works as a dev, and has at least 21 vacation days at each company he’s worked at. (some you’ve probably heard of). My previous company was a tech start up, and we had 23 days. So, 25 is nice, but not super special. At least, in tech start-up world.

      Reply ↓
    2. Blarg*

      25 paid HOLIDAYS, like in addition to vacation/sick leave? That is … more than normal. But I would not be embarrassed about it. I’d be proud to work for a place that valued time off. If it is creating business issues, because your company is now closed on Halloween while all your clients continue to work, I might address it with your company from that perspective — like getting a floating holiday or something for those that need to maintain services on non-federal holidays you are observing.

      Reply ↓
  56. LightJobHunt*

    What’s the best way to ask about the salary of internal positions?

    I reached out to a recruiter at my current company to ask if they could provide the salary range for a job I was interested in as I wanted to make sure it didn’t pay less than my current job. (When job hunting, I only agree to schedule HR screenings or interviews if they’ll tell me the salary range first. I got the salary range for my current job early on and I didn’t think it’d be a problem to get it before applying to a job.)

    The recruiter said they were unable to share the salary range, but that they thought the salary might be about what I make now, but I would lose money because my year-end bonus would be smaller.

    I’m just wondering why they wouldn’t want to share the salary range for internal applicants, and is there a better way to ask? Or should I apply (I’m not sure if my manager is auto-notified) and wait to ask if they want to schedule a screening?

    (My company does have a list of “salary bands,” but they’re so big they’re useless. Like the admin level is $27k to $127k, coordinators are $34k to $134k, etc.)

    Reply ↓
    1. Trevor*

      It’s frustrating that they won’t share the salary, but I can’t say that it’s surprising either from a company with salary bands of 27-127k lol. It’s also possible they don’t have an exact budget for it yet. I would probably try to reach out to someone who currently holds this position or has held it in the past (this should be easier than it usually would be since you’re an internal candidate) to get at least a rough idea of what the salary would be.

      Reply ↓
  57. Trevor*

    I work on a writing-based team whose workflow is quite laissez-faire. We’re given a stack of case files at the beginning of every day. We each grab one, write up a report on it, send it through, take another and repeat. The reports are all printed at the end of the day, and we all quickly glance over all of them to make sure there aren’t any errors before publishing them. We have a strict deadline for this. Our VP and manager, Mike, can see who is writing the initial draft of which report, but they are all officially attributed to our entire team and we all get in trouble if an error is discovered in the published version.

    Our newest team member, Will, is blowing through reports much faster than the rest of us. I will complete my first one and see that he has already done four. Problem is, this is not speeding up our process as a team at all and is actually leading to more close calls with our deadline than we were having before. Because his reports, when we check them at the end of the day, are FULL of errors. Spelling, grammar, math mistakes, really blatant stuff. It’s adding quite a bit of time to what was previously a very quick process. It’s gotten to the point where some team members have started going into Will’s files to “rewrite” them before they’re printed, which is putting even more work on people’s plates.

    To top it off, Mike has clearly noticed that Will is filing more reports than everyone else, and he LOVES him for it. (Mike has a business background and is not a writer.) We’ve heard from other executives that Mike has been singing Will’s praises to them at every opportunity, emphasizing how fast of a writer he is and the huge workload he’s taking on. Every opportunity for an additional project or responsibility, Mike has been giving to Will, despite others expressing interest who are (in my view) much more qualified. Last month, he nominated Will to give a speech at a company dinner.

    I’m tired of this guy getting so much praise while doing a bad job that creates more work for the rest of us. But I’m worried that criticizing Will directly to Mike — or about getting on Will’s bad side — could backfire given the amount of favor he has with him. There’s part of me that’s tempted to just start performing like Will and churning out careless and error-filled writing myself, and there are days when I’ve tried to do it, but I guess I’m just not sure I’m wired that way. I feel guilty when putting out a bad product that I know I could’ve done better. I also really believe in the mission of our organization, and I feel guilty when I feel like I’m intentionally not serving that.

    Any advice?

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Let Will fail. Right now, you guys are covering for him. Stop. Miss deadlines, let errors go out, etc. Yes, it’ll be painful but its also the only way Mike is going to listen.

      Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      There’s a few ways to address this. I’m not sure which to recommend, because it really depends on the details of your situations. But here’s the options I thought of (in no particular order):

      1. Get a new job. Yes, I know, the commentors love to say this. But there are some situations that you just can’t fix, and the only way to win the game is not play. You don’t need to run away right now, but mentally start accepting that as an option. Maybe update your resume to remove that mental barrier- that way if you have a particularly bad day, you are ready to rage-apply.
      2. Tell Mike directly what’s going on. This can work if you have really strong rapport with your manager, or if the manager is open to experts and solution oriented. But it can also backfire pretty badly, especially if the manager is ego-driven and you need to raise a concern about their Golden Child.
      3. Talk to Mike about the editing concerns and pretend like you don’t know Will is the culprit. “hey, I’ve noticed that the team is needing to do a lot more editing. It’s not impacting the beginning of the process where we write the report, but it’s adding a lot more time on the end of the workflow because we are spending more time fixing typos, grammar, details, etc. Here’s a few of the reports that needed the most time last week (are they 90% Will’s? How strange!)”.
      4. Pretend to buy in to Mike’s Golden Will Theory, and express faux concern for Will. “Hi Mike! Is Will going to be speaking at the thing next month? That’s so cool- he’s such a quick writer, and I’ve been so impressed! But I’m a little worried for him- his reports aren’t quite up to the same quality as others and need a lot more editing, which is costing him a lot more time at the end of the day*. I’d love to work with him on getting his accuracy and grammar up-leveled** so he can really capitalize on his potential**!)
      *If Mike cares more about Will than the rest of the team, appealing to his love of Will can be more efficient than pointing out what it costs the team as a whole.
      **If Mike uses business jargon, use the business jargon, even if it makes you soul hurt.
      5. Let Will fail. Everyone stops correcting his things until the end of the day. Everyone corrects their own reports first. Make it obvious how much editing Will’s reports need.
      6. Change your workflow to account for Will’s terrible writing. Allocate more time at the end of the day for editing. Or allocate one or two team members to be Early Editors, where they write for a couple hours in the morning, then switch to editing so that there isn’t the last minute rush.

      Again, which strategy(s) you go for just depend on your particular situation. If you are bad actor or suck at politics, don’t use 3 or 4. No matter what you choose, I recommend Option 1. When I’ve had managers start to play favorites without understanding what the job really is, it’s always led to bigger problems. You don’t need to leave right away, but it’s better to start looking before you are incandescent with rage (rage incandescence isn’t a good look on a job candidate). And if the issue resolves, it’s very easy to stop a job search.

      Reply ↓
  58. Pinche Coca*

    I’m wanting to go back to work after 18 months of unemployment (applying/interviewing and it’s tough out there!) and am looking for some help in explaining/accounting for the gap in my resumé and also why I left my last role with nothing to go to. Prior to this stint of unemployment my last job I held for over 5 years and I left because of a serious injury I had outside of work that’s had a long recovery period. My work history has a couple of other big gaps, both when I took time out to care for my parents who were terminally ill, and any job before then I’ve held for a couple of years. I usually have no issue explaining the gaps when I was caring for my parents (and interviewers have been really positive about them to be honest!) but for this most recent one I’m stumped. My injury will likely cause some ongoing issues here and there so it’s not something I’m keen to bring to the table if I don’t have to because it would raise questions about my capability and reliability.

    Because of my line of work I could say I’d been freelancing for the period (assuming they wouldn’t look to a ‘client’ for a reference) or I could say that I’d been seeing the world etc. but I’m in my early 40s so not sure the latter would fly and also it doesn’t really explain why I left my last job. I have been taking some college classes to gain additional credentials and keep busy but none that would line up directly with the timeline of quitting my job and being unemployed for the last 1.5 years. I’ve tried being honest-ish about it on a couple of occasions and it’s gone down like a lead balloon so I’d be really appreciative of any creative input at this stage!

    Reply ↓
    1. hello!*

      You took a gap year where you focused on college classes, art and travelling (you went out for coffee, right?). Don’t make it negative, make it positive. I’m in my 50’s and just had a 14 month gap, and that’s what I used. (I didn’t actually sell any art, but I did have one offer for a piece. I’d already promised it to my kid. And I knit two sweaters, that’s textile art).

      Reply ↓
      1. hello!*

        I had no pushback on the art, but did get into a detailed discussion about the niche art I was totally into. (gyotaku)

        Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      I wouldn’t see an issue with saying something like “after leaving my last role to care for an injury which is now healed*, I’ve been taking time to build on my education and travel.”
      *Can also say “handle a medical issue that is now resolved”. It doesn’t matter that you may have occasional flare-ups. Lots of people have random medical flare-ups from a wide array of health conditions. Even if it’s something that needs accommodations, you don’t need to disclose that up-front, especially not before you’ve even been offered an interview.

      Reply ↓
    3. Zephy*

      “I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to work on some personal projects during that time, but now I’m looking to return to the workforce,” and then you change the subject to what interests you about the role you’re interviewing for. Just like answering the question of why you left your last job – one-line banal excuse + excitement for the role at hand.

      Reply ↓
  59. Tomi*

    Had an interview last year where I didn’t get the job but the hiring manager emailed me after and said she’d been impressed with me and would be happy to “stay in touch.” I’m now interested in another position at that company, though it’s not on her team. Should I reach out to her about it, and what should I say if so?

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      Sure. You can ask her what she knows about it, and if, given what she knows about your experience, she has an idea of whether it might be a good fit. If she does think so, she might talk to the hiring manager and put in a good word.

      Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      I would probably reach out to say “I saw that COMPANY has an open role for ROLE, and I’m planning on applying for it. I was really impressed with our interview, and I’m excited for a possible opportunity to work at COMPANY. If you know anything about the role, I’d love to learn more!”

      Give her a day or two to respond, and if she doesn’t, just go ahead and apply. Sometimes people get busy and deprioritize these comms, so make sure that your application isn’t waiting on her response.

      Reply ↓
  60. Yes And*

    Can anyone recommend resources for someone who is experienced at the mechanics of payroll, but wants to understand the why’s and wherefores of taxes, deductions, overtime, vacation payouts, etc.?

    I posted recently about an employee who I wanted to see take more initiative about this sort of thing, so he can be a more active participant in problem solving and exception handling. I’m thrilled that he is doing so, and I want to encourage him as much as possible. But I learned all this stuff by doing it (and to be honest, I’m perplexed that he hasn’t picked up on any of this stuff after years of executing it), so I don’t have any resources to suggest for him. Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      I’m not in payroll so this may be way off base, but here are some basic resources for the things you mentioned (generally focused on the worker, not the employer, but should be good for a very basic “what is this”):

      Tax withholding:
      https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-withholding-how-to-get-it-right#:~:text=An%20employer%20generally%20withholds%20income,the%20end%20of%20the%20year.

      Tax deductions:
      https://www.irs.gov/credits-and-deductions-for-individuals#:~:text=A%20deduction%20is%20an%20amount,them%20in%20the%20right%20forms.

      Overtime:
      https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/overtime/general-guidance

      https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa/faq

      Vacation payouts (he should also search for “vacation payout laws [state name]” or “PTO payout laws [state name]” to get more specific resources for your state) :
      https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/

      Reply ↓
  61. Lady Lessa*

    Spew incoming.
    IT type hell (sorry to you good ones) all off site, both corporate and local. Corporate was trying to install a new program onto my desk top and we had major password problems. Partly because of the way I mentally connect them to the program and the way IT does. Managed to get completely locked out of my desktop (which uses a different password that did not change).

    Finally, the local IT person got me logged into my computer and it turns out that the installed program won’t let me log in even with the correct domain and password. When we (there’s 3 of us who need this new program) get new laptops, I wonder how easy it will be to log in.

    Minor spew. Fonts where lower case “l” and upper case “I” look a like. It may even have number “1” looks the same as well.

    Spew over.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rick Tq*

      That’s where an old font like Courier is the right font for things like passwords. The old standard was to use a monospace font for any literal strings (like computer commands) in a document.

      Reply ↓
  62. Kangaroo for Two*

    In the ongoing chronicles of “People Lose Their Minds Over Free Food”

    We have a monthly breakfast for clients and team leads, usually on the first Friday of the month, from 9 – 10 am. The breakfast catering is excellent, and we typically have plenty left over after the meeting to offer to other staff in our office suite.

    This morning, there was a fire alarm in the building complex early in the morning, and this caused some delays in getting everyone back into the building and the meeting ended up started around 9:30 am, so would likely end around 10:30 am.

    At 10 am, other staff headed to the conference room for breakfast and were SHOCKED to learn that the meeting was going to continue another half hour. Someone even asked our receptionist if she could let the people in the meeting know to take a break so that staff could get their breakfast at the usual time of 10 am. (Obviously that did not happen).

    Reply ↓
    1. Bast*

      We have a monthly panel meeting that roughly a dozen important attorneys from around the state participate in. For whatever reason, it MUST be a lunch meeting, it MUST be in our office, and our office MUST pay, despite the fact that all of these people can easily afford to shell out for a $15.00 sandwich and soda combo. Anyway, we are supposed to have a large snowstorm on the day of next week’s meeting, and our office is likely going to close for the day. The idea that the meeting either be held on a different day or at someone else’s office and expense (whoever wants to brave the storm, likely only a couple of them) is being vehemently opposed. They MUST get their free sandwiches IN OUR OFFICE on the APPOINTED DAY. Nothing else will do.

      Reply ↓
  63. Sterling*

    Okay kinda out-there question incoming. I’m a part-timer, and part-timers at my company don’t get performance reviews. However, we were still required to fill out the same self-assessment the full-timers had to (explaining our goals for the upcoming year, what we’d achieved last year, etc.) with sections for our manager and then our skip-level manager to leave feedback and then give us scores in various categories. The full-timers all got to see the scores and feedback they’d been given in their end-of-year performance reviews and then had to sign a form acknowledging that they’d seen it. We part-timers, however, have not been shown our results and, as far as we can tell, there are no plans to show them to us. The scores are also used to determine things like raises, promotions, and bonuses for the full-timers, which aren’t relevant to us part-timers at all.

    One of my coworkers is theorizing that management hasn’t even filled out their half of our evaluations, and that the company is just holding onto them in case they need to whip them out with terrible scores as justification to fire us at any time. (We’re in a country where it’s very hard to fire people and legally you need a strong justification, at minimum.) It sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory but…is there any other reason why our managers would’ve made us fill this out?

    And, follow-up question: Should I just ask my manager for a performance review? Would that be weird? She barely pays any attention to our team and never talks to us. But if I have no idea if I’m doing my job well or not well and would kind of like to know, even though it’s part time.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      It could be simple lack of interest.
      The managers know that part-timers don’t really have anything riding on the scores, so they aren’t going to put any effort into getting the reviews done. Or if it did get done, the manager isn’t putting in the time to share it with you. You could try asking, but this likely isn’t on the manager’s priority list.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      is there any other reason why our managers would’ve made us fill this out?

      Some reasons I can think of:

      – managers do fill out their portion every year, and for [reason unknown] the scores aren’t visible to you
      – managers intend to fill out their portion every year but sometimes/often/always don’t because there are higher-priority things to work on
      – management thinks you should fill out your portion because it is helpful to you to reflect on your year and have a record of your accomplishments, but they don’t think that the management portion is important because they aren’t giving you raises/bonuses/promotions
      – management thinks you should fill out your portion out of some sense of “fairness” (if the full-timers have to fill out a self-assessment, the part-timers do to)

      Not all of these are particularly good reasons, but they are fairly non-nefarious reasons to counteract your coworker’s conspiracy theory reason.

      Reply ↓
    3. Pay no attention...*

      Could there ever be an instance where a part-timer converts to a full-timer? It could be that evaluations are referenced should you apply for, or be offered, a full-time position.

      Are job references a thing in your country — so that they need to have some sort of record of your performance?

      Reply ↓
  64. Looking out for colleagues*

    I’ve always admired how Alison emphasizes the unique ability that you have as a manager to make someone’s life easier during a crisis (flexibility, leave time, etc.) in a way that no one else in their life will be able to do. Does anyone have any similar recommendations for providing work-specific support for people given the new administration? (International nonprofit that doesn’t receive US federal funding and isn’t existentially impacted by the current executive orders, but that works in an area that is highly politicized and is highly associated with one ‘side’– think environmental justice, abortion rights, gun safety, etc.) Flexibility and grace seems like an obvious one, as is adjusting the travel policy, but is there anything else to think about? Both things we can do as individual managers/colleagues (help each other out with workloads if it’s been a bad day) or on a org-wide level (explicitly allow using sick time for mental health days?)

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      What culture we promote. What we don’t say can be as important as what we say. Being proactive about making spaces safe- make sure that everyone knows that sexism/racism/xenophobia/homophobia is not tolerated here. Take explicit steps to ensure that marginalized groups are represented. If you have the privilege of not being targeted by the new administration, take the steps you can to protect and advocate for those who are targeted. If/when bonkers behavior happens, call that out (side-eyeing the NSA covering up the plaques of trailblazers who are women/POC. Kudos to the people that called them out on that awfulness)

      Reply ↓
  65. fallingleavesofnovember*

    Curious about anyone who has ever worked doing door-to-door sales/charity solicitation – does anyone ever say yes? I can’t understand how it makes sense to pay people to walk around and door knock (even assuming they aren’t paid well) when loads of people won’t be home, and most won’t say yes, and many will be annoyed at being disturbed. (This is specifically prompted by two guys trying to sell me internet service yesterday, interrupting my work day and expecting to me to stand there with the door open in sub-zero (Celsius) weather. We’re getting more and more of these in my neighbourhood, and I just don’t get it as a strategy!

    Reply ↓
    1. commensally*

      They’re often working on commission, at least the sales people, so sending them around costs the company nothing unless they make sales.

      I did paid door-to-door knocking for a petition once, though, and it was kind of surprising how often you could pretty easily talk people into signing if they did answer the door; it was definitely a higher rate than trying to get passers-by in busy public spaces to do it, and I’m no salesperson. (You got fewer signatures overall, though, because getting that answered door was only a couple times an hour.)

      Reply ↓
    2. WorkerDrone*

      Almost 20 years ago now, I got roped into selling Kirby vacuums door-to-door. Of the two and a half weeks that I gave it a shot, only 2 people said yes (and, at the time, I was a wholesome looking young woman).

      One was a wife whose husband was VERY unhappy we were in his house and made it clear. I cleaned like 1 square inch of their carpet and fled without making a sales pitch.

      The other was an elderly woman, living in poverty, obviously very lonely. I cleaned the hell out of her carpets and fled without making a sales pitch.

      I have to imagine this type of thing makes even less sense now than when I was out there doing it.

      Reply ↓
    3. Parakeet*

      Surprisingly, sometimes they do! I had a hell job for a little while 20 years ago going door to door raising money for an environmental org. I couldn’t believe that anyone would actually give money, but some people did. Not enough, for me, to be able to keep the job for very long (you had to average at least $100/day donated each week or you got fired, regardless of the reason for not making the quota). Most people got fired within a few weeks if not sooner – a lot didn’t make it out of their three-day trial period. But if you made over quota you got commission, and there were a few people who were REALLY good at it, getting several hundred dollars of donations per day, maybe even more. It was a real type – you could pick out which ones they were after 30 seconds in a room with all of us.

      Things like canvassing for a political candidate are much easier, as they don’t require anyone to give any money.

      Reply ↓
  66. FuzzyFuzz*

    I have a direct report rather new to me and am struggling with the issue of work ‘ownership.’ To start off, I am a huge supporter/upholder of ‘work life balance’ and fully disconnecting when you’re out on PTO and resting when you are out sick. I don’t want or expect my direct reports to handle work when they’re off.

    We work in a white collar environment where each person handles pieces of projects rather independently. One of my employees will write or text to say that they sick on days when they have project deliverables due, and not…say anything about them. For example, I asked them to pull a list to present to a meeting on Tuesday, and to send it to be by Monday at noon. Monday AM, they call in sick but don’t say anything about how far they got with the assignment, where it is saved, if they think it’s in good shape and I’ll likely be able to effectively review on Tuesday AM, nothing.

    It feels weird and heartless to write back to someone who says they’re sick immediately to ask them about work product. But, it feels like a lack of self awareness when they don’t address it themselves.

    Any advice on how I should handle this kind of thing?

    Reply ↓
    1. mreasy*

      I would just assume the deadline has to be extended until they are back. If I’m sick enough to call out, I’m not thinking about a work deliverable.

      Reply ↓
    2. WorkerDrone*

      When they are back in the office, can you ask them to start doing that?

      Something like, “I want you to take your sick days as true sick days, so this isn’t a request for you to do any work on your deliverables. But, if you’re going to be out sick on a day a deliverable is due, going forward can you please include in the email how far along you got, where it’s saved, and when you will have it ready for review? I just need a sentence or two, nothing detailed.”

      Reply ↓
    3. ferrina*

      Do you have a shared drive for your team? Do you have a place where you list all deadlines?

      I work in an industry where we have tight unmoveable deadlines, and we always store everything in a well-organized shared drive for exactly this reason. If someone is unexpectedly out, you can quickly access what they were working on. (and if you don’t store critical docs on the shared drive, that is considered a major performance problem).

      You should also talk to this person and let them know what you need from them when they call out sick.
      “I need you to include what project deadlines are that day if you are sick, so I can reassign them. If the documents are not in the shared drive, you also need to include those in your message.”
      This is standard practice, even among work-life balance advocates (usually especially among those folks- they want the info so that they can take care of the work part of the work-life balance so they don’t need to interrupt the person who is dealing with the life part.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        All of this, with the caveat that mreasy mentioned above: there may be days where the person calling in sick might be incapable of doing this based on what’s making them sick, and you need contingency plans for that. The shared drive, shared calendars, shared critical paths, etc. are all part of mitigating that, but at the end of the day sometimes you can’t plan for everything.

        Reply ↓
    4. Pay no attention...*

      If it’s such a consistent pattern, you might need to be more proactive in following up a day or two before a deadline, or require them to save their work in a place that is accessible for you or others at the end of every day — could they be “sick” because it’s not done?

      Reply ↓
  67. Pigpig*

    I recruit for mostly entry level customer service roles. When I advertise a vacancy I normally get around 100ish applications.

    In the last couple of months we have received literally thousands of applications. I’ve had to turn off notifications because I keep getting an alert every few mins with another resume. When I meet people for interviews the general tone is “I’ve been rejected countless times, please give me any hours for any pay and I’ll gladly work”. Yesterday I interviewed someone with a masters degree who likely used to earn several tens of thousands of dollars above the pay rate we are offering.

    This whole situation has been bewildering and sad. I’ve been recruiting my whole career and I’ve never seen anything like this. I don’t know if this is just my part of the world (New Zealand) or is anyone else experiencing something similar?

    Reply ↓
    2. Busy Middle Manager*

      Job market is bad. Government BLS report came out today: Job growth was concentrated in health care (44,000), retail (34,000) and government (32,000). 143K jobs in total. I’ve seen various #s but we need at least 200K jobs a year to account for population growth and immigration.

      The sectors above has been a trend, so basically the market is only good if you’re in healthcare. Sectors that are white collar have been pretty flat for a year. So when you get laid off, you realize “no one” is hiring

      Reply ↓
    3. Parakeet*

      It’s not just NZ. My spouse has been out of full-time work for more than two years, after 12 years of work in a particular field (that has been very damaged by both generative AI and the tech world’s bad job situation in general) after having been laid off from a startup that ran into cash flow problems. He had 12 years of full-time experience in his field with good reviews/references. He’s probably applied for thousands of jobs.

      Reply ↓
  68. Blarg*

    The ripple effects of everything that Trump & Musk are doing are going to be felt so far and wide across the US and the world, and it is terrifying. I live in DC, so we are in the epicenter of it, but virtually everyone I know is currently fearful of losing their jobs/homes/insurance.

    I had an appt with my oncologist yesterday, and she told me that more than half her patients in the last week have expressed concern about their health coverage continuing. Half the cancer patients! To the point where she’d assumed I’d be in the same boat (correct), and had already shifted my treatment plan around to do a couple things this month instead of waiting til March or April, since my insurance premiums are paid for this month already.

    It’s just such a messed up, unnecessary situation impacting right now millions, but as more folks lose their jobs, it will impact more and more sectors of the economy. Anyone who thinks it only happening to other people is kidding themselves.

    Reply ↓
    1. Anon for this one*

      I’m a cancer patient in the DC area and losing coverage is my number 1 concern by a big margin. I’m covered through my spouse, who’s a fed, and we’re both women so either “she gets fired” or “they stop recognizing our marriage” are real possibilities. I could get worse coverage through my work, but I’m Stage IV so that will only last so long before I need to resign. I know the cancer is going to get me eventually but I’d rather it be because I run out of options than because I can’t afford treatment.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hroethvitnir*

        God, there’s nothing I could say that touches the sides here. I’m so sorry.

        No matter what, I hope you can access what you need to be as comfortable as possible.

        Reply ↓
  69. BellStell*

    Help me out here commentariat. I brought in several projects to my org, the funding in the past five years was almost 20M usd. One project got taken over by a new, not nice, aggressive colleague in DC and I was taken off of it then got moved to a better team, but without this funding, after being told ‘we have no money for your role’…but this person makes 60k more than me. So. Well that project they are on was funded by the usGov. Now that the funding for that work is on hold and going to likely be cut in full…. said colleague is being moved to my current project funded by the EU with very little money to spare. The aggressiveness, and attitude and lack of politeness I cannot handle. This person is new since May only, is a know it all, and is above me in rank. My boss is running interference but I just CANNOT. How do I do my job with this person now in the team when they are rude to me? My boss is helping but I am taking anti anxiety meds to do my work and am mighty pissed this colleague gets moved to my project when I was pushed out for ”lack of money” for them to hire others for my old work and push her onto my project. Yes am still looking for a new job but it is hard due to the situation of funding now globally. Yes our upper management is crap. They moved me. I was moved as were two others because we complained about a missing stair and HR and the director moved us all … how do I cope? Money and fighting over it is a core aspect of our work as our org sucks at management.

    Reply ↓
  70. anonymous worker ant*

    Good problem to have, but – I’m having trouble handling compliments on my recent promotion.

    Background: I spent ten years in basically the highest-level “blue-collar” job at my nonprofit employer. I recently moved up to the lowest-level “white-collar” job. I was overqualified and could likely have moved up awhile ago, but I liked and valued the work I was doing and the raise was nice but honestly negligible compared to how underpaid *everyone* is. I finally applied when a position opened up that might not be open again for awhile, in large part because of management issues around the blue-collar workers – the new position both protects me a little better and positions me better to advocate for my former peers.

    The problem is people keep complimenting me for the promotion in ways that imply it’s a great honor and a proof of my value and talent. I really don’t like the implication that being in this job makes me somehow “better” than when I was in my old one, and I don’t want to agree (it doesn’t; we’re all doing good work but the blue-collar people are, frankly, doing more of it with worse support, and most of the people in that job are only stuck there because they don’t have a college degree that this one requires but does not need.) I usually respond by saying something about the raise and then we can all pivot into the familiar complaining about salary across the board, but does anyone have a more graceful way to handle this.

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I would just say “Thanks! I’m looking forward to [specific project / learning new task / working with XYZ colleagues]” and leave it at that. It’s like any other backhanded compliment: you give a “Thanks” and pivot.

      I think you’re right that they’re probably saying it in some way that might involve a value judgment about your past role (usually without realizing it), but at the end of the day you know the importance of the work that your old team does and you’re now in a position to advocate for that work when they may not have a voice in the room. We have a similar divide in our workplace, and some people are just going to be weird jerks about it.

      I would also add: it is a proof of your value and talent, and I don’t think you should disregard that! You said it yourself that there was an “implication” there that you’re now “better” than in your old role, but I would try not to look at it that way. You applied for a new role and were the successful applicant, which speaks to all the good things about you.

      Reply ↓
      1. anonymous worker ant*

        They’re not even being weird jerks about it – I’m sure a lot of it is just people doing the expected social interaction when somebody moves up, and a lot of them are just sincerely happy to see me get the better job title and raise and not thinking about it at all. I’ve spent ten years loudly advocating for my old job being undervalued and just as important and useful as the new one and want to keep doing that, but I don’t want to make it awkward for people who are just trying to be nice, either. That is good advice about mentioning specific projects, though!

        It’s probably good to remember that if one of my old peers got the job and people congratulated them on it, I wouldn’t even consider anything other than sincere agreement on the congratulations for them!

        Reply ↓
  71. Pigpig*

    I have an employee Bob who goes to the bathroom a lot. He’s in a customer facing role where everyone’s breaks are timed carefully to ensure adequate coverage. But he goes to the bathroom several times a day, each trip lasting approx 10 minutes. I would guess he spends around an hour in the bathroom in total each day, more or less.

    He also has other issues like napping and playing games on his phone during work hours. I’ve spoken to him about this. During this conversation I also mentioned his frequent bathroom breaks. I told him he didn’t need to explain his bathroom habits and if he needed to go, of course he should – but this was not a job where we could accommodate any frequent breaks for any reason. He said he understood – then half an hour later went to the bathroom again for maybe the 5th time that day.

    Any suggestions?

    Reply ↓
    1. WorkerDrone*

      It sounds like you were hoping Bob would change without giving him a clear directive to do so.

      If you need him to stick to the timed and scheduled break, then you need to explicitly tell him that as a condition of his employment. If he cannot leave the desk outside his timed and scheduled break, then you need to explicitly tell him that as a condition of his employment.

      I have no idea of the legality of restricting bathroom breaks like that so buyer beware, lol.

      If you want Bob to self-manage his breaks in such a way that he can still use the bathroom when he needs, but not excessively (in your perception; who knows why Bob needs the restroom this much, it could easily be not excessive at all) – well, that is extremely unlikely to happen, but if that is what you want, you need to explicitly tell him so.

      Reply ↓
      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Agreed. “If you have to go, then you need to go, but also can you not go as often as you need to” is not a clear message!

        Reply ↓
    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I would leave the bathroom part out of it unless you have an HR team / employment lawyer you can talk to about the legalities around policing people’s bathroom breaks. Maybe he’s in there playing Candy Crush on his phone every hour, but maybe he has IBS. Additionally, as WorkerDrone said, you’re sending him mixed messages, which I don’t think helps here.

      The napping (!) and the phone use alone sound like things you should be dealing with from a performance perspective if he’s customer-facing. The one upside to his frequent bathroom usage is that if he’s in the bathroom, he’s not ignoring customers! And even if he took an average number of bathroom breaks, the napping and phone use would still be an issue.

      When you talked to him, were you clear about what you needed from him? e.g. “Bob, you can’t nap during your shifts. If this happens again, it will put your continued employment in jeopardy.” Or whatever the consequence would be for this.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hlao-roo*

      He also has other issues like napping and playing games on his phone during work hours. I’ve spoken to him about this.

      Has he stopped napping and playing games on his phone? If not, focus here first and most of all. Forget the bathroom breaks while you manage the napping/phone use.

      If he has stopped with the napping and playing games, how is his work quality in general? Still leaving the bathroom issue aside, how do you measure success in the role? Number of customers served per employee per day, satisfaction of customer service, etc.? My hunch is that Bob is not a stellar worker, and the bathroom breaks (plus napping plus phone games) are just a very visible and obvious symptom of this. If I’m right, focus on Bob’s actual work output and not on the bathroom breaks. (If I’m wrong and Bob is a great employee who just happens to go to the bathroom a lot, maybe just let that be?)

      Reply ↓
    4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      You say ” this was not a job where we could accommodate any frequent breaks for any reason.” I think you need to consider what happens if Bob has a medical need to go to the bathroom? That isn’t just for no reason. I think you can address the other issues like napping and phone usage. If he was the perfect employee would you still be tracking his bathroom time?

      As someone who has been in Bob’s place please be considerate. Tell him clearly what the issue is. as others have said, “If you have to go, then you need to go, but also can you not go as often as you need to” is not clear. Explain why him leaving is an issue. Then say that he doesn’t have to give you specifics but is there a medical issue that is at play. Then be willing to think of accommodations.

      Reply ↓
    6. spcepickle*

      Honestly my guess is you are going to have to fire him. Bathroom breaks are just like any other reasonable accommodation, in that they should not affect the essential duties of your job. Sounds like an essential duty of Bob’s job is to provide coverage at set times, there might not be a way to accommodate around that.

      I would start by setting incredibly clear expectations. Bob it is expected that you take care of all your personal needs during your scheduled breaks (remind him of when his breaks are). If that is not something that you can do here is our process of filing for a reasonable accommodation. The ADA law says that you will then enter into an iterative process which means Bob can help come up with solutions.

      Your other option is to really focus on performance metrics, which it also sounds like he not meeting. Once again start by setting very clear expectations, document your conversation and the outcome.

      I know this sounds harsh – but if your other team members are struggling to cover for Bob you are setting your whole team up for failure. Giving people clear and consistent expectation and then following through with consequences if those expectations are not met builds trust and a solid workplace where people can thrive.

      Reply ↓
    7. Blue Pen*

      I don’t think you can (or should) penalize someone for needing to use the bathroom. If he needs to go, then he needs to go. I think you should instead redirect your attention to his playing games and napping (?) during work hours. Those are the much bigger issues.

      Reply ↓
  72. Rhymetime*

    Any tips for navigating a new division chief who wants to be involved in everything? I know this is not uncommon in the work world in general, but it’s new in my own experience.

    As context, I work in a highly functional medium-sized nonprofit. My experienced team works together seamlessly as well as with our colleagues elsewhere in the organization. Our team is widely respected and things move along smoothly. I recognize that I’m lucky to be in such a great organization.

    Enter the new division chief a view months ago, first time in the C-suite. They are a strong addition overall. We know the CEO wanted them to dive in and engage with us after staff transitions left us without a leader for a while, and that’s appreciated. However, they want to be directly involved in so many of our individual projects that it’s burdensome. We can barely hold a conversation without them.

    I hope they will eventually realize they simply can’t be everywhere at once. But in the meantime, any advice for navigating this extra oversight for everything from internal calls to meeting with external contacts?

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      What specifically is challenging for you? Is it scheduling around their packed calendar? Are they asking basic questions and interrupting the flow of the meetings? Or is it just weird to have a division chief on a routine meeting? And do you know if this is planned to be a consistent thing or if they’re getting the lay of the land + an idea of what all your projects are? If it’s a short-term thing, you might have to just deal for the next while and then as they get more comfortable with the role they might dial back.

      If you’re finding it’s making it hard to schedule or making meetings take longer, could you propose having a daily stand-up or weekly review meeting to get them onboard and up to date with the projects without being immediately involved?

      Reply ↓
      1. Rhymetime*

        Yes, it’s the slowing down of processes and that need to move more quickly. My colleagues and I understand that diving in to understand how things work is reasonable for a new leader, and actually appreciated. Each of us already has a weekly check-in with the chief.

        We’re concerned that this might be a regular thing. For instance, when I was sharing my updates, this is where I learned that we need to copy this individual on every email with their fellow members of our executive team, and that they need to be included in all the meetings with these same individuals.

        That’s not how things typically work at our organization where we have a lot of agency as long as we loop in our chief both with updates and whenever they are needed to be directly involved. I guess you’re right that my colleagues and I just need to be patient and see if this evolves once the chief has been in their role longer and feeling more up to speed.

        Reply ↓
  73. Misophonia Woes*

    I struggle with misophonia and have developed some strategies to cope with it in general, but I’m curious if anyone has tips for how to handle it professionally when a *specific person* triggers their misophonia at work. Usually it’s not their fault at all, e.g. their natural speaking voice just happens to trigger my misophonia in a particularly painful way. I often find myself avoiding working with someone when this happens, even if it would benefit me professionally to work with them more, but I don’t know what else to do. Or even if the trigger is somewhat within their control, like if I can hear that someone needs to clear their throat but they don’t, I still feel like it’s unprofessional to police the sounds my coworkers make, no matter how much it bothers me. But I just need to figure out how to not let it affect my willingness to work with someone! Often, I find them perfectly pleasant in every other way, but I don’t know how to ignore the annoyance I feel merely at the sound of their voice!

    In the past, I had the opportunity to transfer to a new supervisor who would have been a great mentor for me, but her voice was so triggering that the idea of regularly meeting with her 1:1 filled me with dread. I didn’t know how to say that without being cruel so I had to make up another excuse for why I shouldn’t work under her, even though it would have been an awesome opportunity!

    Am I doomed to be held back professionally by this forever? Has anyone else dealt with this and found a solution? Help :(

    Reply ↓
    1. Someone Else's Boss*

      Do you have any coping mechanisms that would help but which you feel embarrassed to use? For example, I struggle with APD, but I find if I wear the kind of ear plugs you use at concerts, I can stay focused. Before I started using them in meetings with my boss, I just explained it to her and asked if she minded. Any chance you have something like that you could turn to?

      Reply ↓
    2. spcepickle*

      I was also going to ask if you have tried loop earplugs. I had a women in my D&D group who’s speaking voice drove my crazy. I didn’t want to stop going and couldn’t figure out how to ask her to talk differently. So I got the clear loop earplugs, which are really subtle and I can put them in before the game. It really helped. It just took the edge off while still allowing me to clearly hear everything that was said.
      I think wearing earplugs has become so common that if you get the low profile ones in a neutral color nobody notices them.

      Reply ↓
      1. Misophonia Woes*

        I do wear loops every day at work, which has been super helpful as a general coping mechanism, but unfortunately they don’t help me with specific and individual triggers like this. They’re great for dampening noises overall but they don’t really help if someone is speaking to me directly and their voice is particularly triggering for whatever reason. Oh well :(

        Reply ↓
  74. TheDogAteMyResume*

    I am SO bummed out. I had applied for a very senior level position and got an email this week from the company’s HR director, setting up a phone call today.

    The time has passed and nothing. I had sent a confirming email, and then two brief emails while waiting for a call – simply saying I was here, then inquiring if they would like to reschedule.

    Nothing.

    I’m wondering if I should call the company and see if I should get them on the phone…or just go on with my life and walk the dog.

    The recruiter is a real person at the company (per LinkedIn) I don’t have their office phone number but it’s easy to look it up as well as their office email.

    What would you do?

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      You’ve already sent them two emails today, so I’d wait for them to get back to you. I understand wanting to make it clear that you’re not the one who missed the call, but presumably on their end something happened that made it impossible to meet, in which case a follow up phone call in addition to the two emails is going to be super annoying.

      If you still haven’t heard after a couple of days, you could follow up again in a “Are you still interested in moving forward with this interview?” email. But after that, put it out of your mind. If they reply in the affirmative, great, and if they don’t, well, now you’re not working for a flaky company.

      Reply ↓
    2. Somehow I Manage*

      I think I’d send one more email. Provide a couple of times you’re available Monday or Tuesday, ask what works well for them, and then just leave the ball in their court. I wouldn’t call. Don’t sit around waiting. Take your dog for a walk. If they’re a half decent company, you’ll get some kind of response. And if not… chalk it up to knowing what you need to know about the company.

      I’m sorry this happened. I really hope there was an urgent issue that made this afternoon impossible for them.

      Reply ↓
    3. Strive to Excel*

      Shot in the dark – are you sure that time zone differences did not catch you? I’ve had that happen a couple of times, including a company that I was expecting to be in my time zone and was *not*.

      If not, you’ve sent them emails. If this is a phone call, take your phone with you and walk the dog. If it’s a video call – well, they know how to find you. Go on with your day.

      Sorry!

      Reply ↓
    4. TheDogAteMyResume*

      Update: they called 40 minutes after our scheduled time and we eventually rescheduled for later the same day.

      It was a normal initial phone call – the recruiter did apologize, and we went on from there.

      Thanks to you all for the advice (I would have done the last email as suggested, if they hadn’t first, and we were in the same time zone).

      I guess I am a little too invested in this position, and have to lay back.
      The dog did get walked afterwards, he is a Very Good Boy.

      Reply ↓
  75. Jai Echs*

    I had my most wholesome tech fail this week. BE WARNED that when screen sharing to Teams from a tablet, while switching between app windows, it can briefly show a recently closed browser tab while loading the current one. For me, presenting to an (informal) all-company hybrid meeting with 100+ people watching including the CEO, my most recent closed tab was the Google image results page for Qinling golden snub-nosed monkeys. It was my personal device, not one I typically use for work, and what can I say? I was learning about monkeys in my free time. And that’s what was briefly displayed on the giant screen and immortalized in the recording. I was embarrassed, but not too much to follow up in the chat with a link to the Wikipedia page.

    Anybody else seen this closed-tab glitch? And/or have you ever had a tech fail that you didn’t entirely regret?

    Reply ↓
  76. Montana*

    Burnout is caused by feeling like you can’t say no. Working through burnout is not figuring out how to manage exhaustion or be more productive. It is about understanding why you say yes (in one way or another) but inside your head you are saying “no” (or similar). A good therapist can help.

    Reply ↓
  77. PropJoe*

    I have a LinkedIn account tied to my real name. I haven’t updated anything on it since the search 3 years ago that led to me finding my current job (as in it still shows me at last job with last title I had there). I’m not actively pursuing other employment and, since I started here, have only used it for LinkedIn Learning & a single instance of looking up a former colleague. I don’t even have the app on my smartphone.

    Is there any reason why I should update my LinkedIn?

    Reply ↓
      1. PropJoe*

        Because I have colleagues who are generally reasonable & sensible people who mention in passing how they found out something like these through LI:

        – former colleague X is now at Acme Widget co
        – here’s an article sort of related to our industry
        – check out this piece of advice I found on topic Y

        99% of the LinkedIn content that I consume comes from looking at LinkedInLunatics type communities on Reddit & Lemmy.

        The notion of being active on there is viscerally offputting (I also deactivated my Facebook account years ago), but otherwise-sensible colleagues getting value from it makes me wonder if I’m missing out on anything.

        Reply ↓
        1. Kay Tee*

          All very valid (and I’m delighted yet not surprised to learn LinkedIn mockery is the basis for an online community!!). I think you can be as passive or active on any platform as it serves you to be. It sounds like you see value in updating your profile to help professional acquaintances find you, so go for it. Listing your current job does not mean you need to start posting line-break-filled inspirational posts about your breakfast. Personally, I don’t post or engage with much content there, and I think most of my peers share that approach. No reasonable human would think it’s odd if you do the same. As for the professional FOMO, many creators/industry thought leaders will host/cross-post their content on a blog, Substack, or email newsletter, not just LI. Maybe use LI as the search engine to find them, then follow them off the hellsite?

          Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      The benefits to updating your LinkedIn that I can think of are:

      1 – makes it easier for current colleagues to connect with you
      2 – reduces confusion if any connections reach out thinking you’re still at [old job]
      3 – less to update/change next time you are actively looking for another job

      These are pretty small benefits (to me anyways) so if they don’t seem worth the hassle of an update for you, leave it as it is. (I say this as someone who also hasn’t updated my profile since leaving my previous job.)

      Reply ↓
    3. Colette*

      The only reason IMO is so that it’s up to date if you decide you want to see what’s out there. It’s easier to update as you go rather than trying to remember retroactively.

      Reply ↓
    4. fallingleavesofnovember*

      My husband hasn’t updated his LinkedIn in like 10 years…it’s not widely used in our field so it doesn’t matter at all, but it makes me laugh every time I see his profile. (We’ve also joked about how much he would have aged if he was still working where he was in 10 years ago!)

      Reply ↓
    5. Rick Tq*

      The question is why keep the account at all? It is a source of social engineering data for hackers anymore, not much of a business development tool. My company runs an active outbound call team looking for new customers and LinkdIn is one of the data sources they review for prospects.

      If you aren’t in a field where that kind of connectivity is important I’d just close the account.

      Reply ↓
    6. A Simple Narwhal*

      I don’t think you need to update your linkedin, but there’s also no harm in taking two minutes to just do a bare bones update to show you aren’t at that old job anymore. It’s super quick to mark the end of your last job and enter your current one, no need to add any further details.

      Plus if you are doing linkedin learning your profile might be getting updated as you complete courses so it might be a bit weird to see a profile that is actively used but contains old/incorrect information.

      Again, it’s not necessary but it would be super quick to fix so why not do it?

      Reply ↓
  78. Job Sharer*

    I feel like had a sweet little win this week, thanks to reading this blog! I am in a job share position, and it’s a front desk job so involves coverage during office hours. We literally split the week, at 12:30 on Wednesday I’m off until Monday. My counterpart is late to start her time 90% of the time, anywhere from 3 to 7 minutes. That doesn’t seem like a big deal, but it takes about 5 minutes for me to get her caught up on what’s going on so that turns into me leaving 8 to 12 minutes late. I love my Wednesday afternoons. I make all my appointments and lunch dates with friends in that 1:00 time frame. My coworker being late leaves me either rushing or being late myself. I decided this week to make it my office manager’s problem. She knows about the lateness, but it hasn’t affected her because I always just dealt with it. This week, I told her I needed to leave on time. At 12:31, I told her my coworker had not yet arrived and I needed to leave. She came right away to cover the desk (yay, her!) so I’m hoping to see an improvement going forward. Making it her problem is something I learned from this blog, so thanks!

    Reply ↓
    4. A Simple Narwhal*

      Congrats that’s perfect!

      Sometimes the only way to make someone care about your problem is to make it their own.

      Reply ↓
  79. Put the Blame on Edamame*

    We had an office reshuffle this week, in our comparatively new building – less than a year in – where people were moved across floors and sometimes same floor, different desk areas (we hotdesk. In theory.)

    Anyway as anyone who has worked with human beings can imagine, it was absolute carnage. People do not like change even if it’s moving three desk bays down. Tchotchkes were plonked down, sofas were argued over, no one could work out where the loos were (in the exact same place they are in the other floors). And joy of joys, our dipshit CEO has ordered 4 days RTO from April so who knows what is happening then. We will be sat on each others laps to fit.

    Reply ↓
  80. MissBliss*

    Started applying to jobs in June 2024. June to December were awful, like a 20% hit rate for interviews or screening calls. Received one job offer but they lowballed me (and apparently lied about their actual salary range in the ad).

    Since the start of the year, things have changed. I had a screening call yesterday that went great, I have two interviews next week, and the job I’m most excited about emailed me today to say that my application had been received and would be reviewed in the “coming weeks.” But… I have two, maybe three interviews next week. Is there any harm in saying “Thank you! Please let me know if I can provide any additional information. I am talking to a few other organizations at the moment but I am especially excited about ORGNAME, if you have an opportunity to speak sooner”?

    Reply ↓
      1. MissBliss*

        Thank you! You’re right, and I already knew that… This godawful job search has just made me understand folks exhibiting gumption a little bit better. I have not emailed them, but I have reached out to two contacts I have who have connections to let them know I applied there! They aren’t within the organization, but that’s what networks are for, right?

        Reply ↓
    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I wouldn’t. This isn’t like where you’re at the post-interview / offer stage where you’ve got a couple of irons in the fire but you hope your preferred option movies more quickly on making you an offer. The job you’re most excited about just sent you a generic confirmation email and they don’t know anything about you yet, so they’re probably more likely to say “Well, we’ll move at our own speed and if you need to take one of those other jobs, then go ahead.”

      Reply ↓
      1. MissBliss*

        Thank you! I do think that I’m a particularly good candidate (and I think they might think so too, since a bunch of people there looked at my LinkedIn yesterday…) but you’re right.

        Reply ↓
    3. Yes And*

      I agree with the other commenters at this stage of the game. There are later stages where this can be a valid strategy, but you’re nowhere near there. After you’ve had a successful interview with the hiring manager and they’ve given you reason to believe you’re a top candidate, and if you’re at least at the reference-checking stage with another position, then I think it’s legit to chivvy your first choice along with the possibility of someone else scooping you up.

      Reply ↓
    4. Cordelia*

      If I, as a hiring manager, had an email from an applicant I had not yet even decided to invite for interview asking me to speed up the hiring process because they had applied to other jobs as well I would remove their application from consideration.
      ORGNAME is not going to shift their whole hiring schedule forwards because you have applied to some other jobs as well, whyever would they do that?

      Reply ↓
    5. Rainy*

      Don’t do it. The email you got is essentially a form letter letting you know that they got your application. If it came from a person’s email address it was definitely part of a mail merge and not a personal email, so they don’t even know (except in broad terms) that they emailed you.

      Keep going with the interviews you have, give the system at the place you’re most excited about time to work. You can’t know how long any of this is going to take or if you’re going to get stuck in endless interviews long enough for your preferred organization’s process to move forward, etc etc.

      My personal rule is that I only try to leverage with an in-hand offer, and that I only try to leverage that in-hand offer for a job that I’ve already had an interview for. Otherwise I’m just a rando no one has met threatening to take my bat and ball and go home from a game that has no shortage of equipment and hasn’t started yet.

      Reply ↓
  81. TGIO*

    The person I hired last year has turned out to be a mansplainer, and it’s driving me crazy. They are now leaving, and I’d love to better screen for this during the upcoming interviews. Does anyone have a good question they’ve used in the past to get mansplainers to out themselves?

    Reply ↓
  82. feline outerwear catalog*

    My boss and grandboss left and I’m now reporting to previous grandboss’ 2nd in command, let’s call them J. J has been a great boss and was hired with eventual succession in mind.

    J is serving as deputy grandboss. Then, we were reorganized into another department with a lot of the usual reorg drama and chaos. (Yes, we’re in higher ed…)

    The new department decided to open a search instead of promoting J directly.

    Several members of the team really like J and want them to stay.

    I really like working for J, but we also have some great candidates. Some of the candidates have more experience and appear to be a good fit, at least culturally.

    I’m struggling with how to give feedback. I think J will leave if they don’t get the promotion which would be a huge loss to the organization. I have a great relationship with J and they are a known quantity. J has some qualifications that some other candidates don’t, despite having less experience.

    I’m struggling with how to give feedback on the candidates, and how to weigh a potential unknown person who shows promise with someone who is awesome.

    Has anyone dealt with a situation like this? How did you handle it? Would appreciate any advice and/or moral support.

    Reply ↓
  83. Just a teacher*

    What do you do when you have devoted you life to something but the only job available goes against your morals?

    I am an educator and have been all my adult life. I do a very specific thing that for anonymity I won’t share. But there is literally only one place in the entire state (that we moved to for my husband’s job) that does this thing. For ease, let’s say that I was a special educator that believes in inclusion in public schools but the only job I could get was a private school self-contained position. The school pays lip service to my values, but it isn’t true. I am not being utilized for my expertise and experience and I feel as though I am failing my students every day.

    Leaving is an option, but it would cut our household income by half. Again, I can’t find another job because of the very specialized nature of my job because this school is literally the only one that serves my students.

    Reply ↓
    1. WorkerDrone*

      I think the unfortunate reality is that sometimes morals come secondary to survival.

      I’d think really carefully about what income is necessary for your family to be reasonably comfortable vs. just getting by – meaning, all needs and some basic luxuries are covered (occasional treat for kids, occasional night out for parents) vs. barely covering needs with no safety net.

      If your family could be reasonably comfortable without this job – maybe you take on a lesser-paying position doing something else, tutoring or something – then choose your morals.

      If your family would be just getting by, I know my personal decision would be to take the job that wasn’t a morally good fit and find ways in my personal life to champion the cause.

      It’s a complex question and one that I think a lot of people are struggling with especially these days.

      Reply ↓
      1. Just a teacher*

        If we dug deep and actually budgeted better, we could be ok.

        The problem is that I am on Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and I need to work at least 4 more years to be forgiven. I owe $80,000. That would mean that we lose my income and UP our bills.

        Reply ↓
        1. No Tribble At All*

          That’s a nontrivial change. I’d find other ways to advocate while staying at the private school job, sorry :(

          Reply ↓
        2. Pam Adams*

          Are you hurting the people you currently serve? If not, then I would keep my job, hold my nose, and do what I could for the people I should be serving.

          Reply ↓
          1. Just a teacher*

            I’m not hurting but I am certainly not helping them in the ways I could in the past in other places….ways I know I could.

            Reply ↓
            1. Alex*

              I think this comes into play in a lot of places–we see how things can be better, if only X or Y. But we just have to do the best we can in the environments we find ourselves in a lot of the time. I was once in a similar position–I was placed in a school were I was to implement X and Y. And the school claimed that they really wanted to do X and Y. But…they didn’t actually. And in some cases they made sure to work in the opposite direction. In my case, it was a temporary placement, so it isn’t exactly the same, but I managed by focusing on the kids I was working with and doing what I could.

              Reply ↓
    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Are you actually failing your students or does it just feel that way because you think the school operates at cross-purposes to your values? Do you have flexibility/autonomy to do things differently in your classroom?

      You said you only do a very specific specialized thing, but in my experience teaching is a job where people definitely have transferable skills into other kinds of work. Is your skill set actually holding you back, or is just that you really want to stay in this kind of work despite all of the above?

      Reply ↓
      1. Just a teacher*

        My work is good, but the rest of the system is causing them to not reach their potential they I know they could.

        I have both a Bachelor’s and Master’s degree and an advanced certification in this very specific thing and I absolutely love it. I *could* go into general ed but that feels like such a waste.

        Reply ↓
        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          I’d try to reframe it, to be honest: is it a waste to go into gen ed if you’re bringing your specific area of expertise, even if it’s just a fraction of that expertise, to kids who might not normally experience it? Because from the sounds of it, your skills are already going to “waste” in your current setting as well. (I use “waste” in air quotes because I don’t think kids are ever failed by someone sharing their expertise in the classroom, even if that person doesn’t think they’re able to fully commit to that particular piece.)

          Reply ↓
    3. MissBliss*

      You know, every place I’ve worked, I’ve learned something. Sometimes it is how the job conflicts with my values. Sometimes it’s about how organizational politics works. This might fall into the latter. If sticking it out in this role for four years means you could have your student loans forgiven, would that make it easier to take other, lower paying jobs that are more aligned with your values? Is that an investment or sacrifice you’re willing to make?

      Also, if you were to leave, would they fill your position? Would leaving be taking a stand, or simply remove yourself from a situation you don’t like? There’s no judgment there – both are valid things to do. It’s just a reflection question for yourself, since it sounds like you’re struggling with both wanting to leave and wanting to stay. Reflecting on that question might help you decide where you need to be for now. And where you need to be for now might not be where you are two years from now – maybe you stay for two years and then leave. It’s okay for life to change and shift.

      Reply ↓
      1. Just a teacher*

        If I left they wouldn’t care but someone less knowledgable and skilled would take my place. The school would keep going, they would provide worse services, and they would continue in their belief system.

        Reply ↓
  84. Anon for This*

    Does anyone have a good example of a list of office behavioral standards? I’m looking for one that is targeted towards professionals and isn’t too basic. Less “Wear a shirt” and more “Don’t display anger in the office; if you need to vent, go outside.”

    (I’m asking cuz I want to introduce my boss to the idea of behavioral standards and figure it would be helpful to show her this is a thing other companies do. Is this a thing other companies do?)

    Reply ↓
    1. Pay no attention...*

      I’ve seen forms of what you describe called a Code of Conduct, or in higher ed where I am, it might be called an Honor Code that applies to students as well as employees. Usually it covers things like treating people with dignity and respect, expectations for conflict resolution, etc.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      Check out the past post titled “professionalism: a round-up” from May 10, 2023. I’ll link to it in a reply to this comment.

      Reply ↓
    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      So you want your boss to evaluate/coach/manage people specifically on this, as part of “professionalism” or “company culture”? I’m wondering about the back story to all this.

      Because the way you address it depends a lot on the backgrounds of the people who are having problems. Are you envisioning 1-1 mentoring, or a “how we do things at LlamaCorp” training program/video, or what? Is this a general issue or is there one person who doesn’t get it, and that’s causing morale problems with everyone else?

      Reply ↓
      1. Anon for This*

        Basically, there’s one person in the office whose behavior is way outside the bounds of what I consider appropriate office behavior, and is upsetting to me. I’ve talked to my boss about it several times and she just keeps putting me through the cycle of asking for specific examples of this person’s behavior and then kind of addressing those very specific examples but not really doing anything, but at the same time saying she wants me to feel more comfortable. It’s making me frustrated and I get the sense that it’s making my coworker feel like I’m policing her.

        So I’m basically just trying to reverse it and say, ok, well here’s what I consider to be appropriate office behavior, how do you all feel about that? Can we agree that these are the standards we’re trying to live up to? Or if not, what needs to be modified? Can we agree that it’s Boss’s job to enforce this? Can we agree that the next time Jane yells, I can just say “rule 1 no yelling, thanks” and not have to schedule a whole meeting about whether or not yelling is acceptable in this specific instance?

        Reply ↓
  85. JustaTech*

    Question about “time off” during work travel.
    I’ve got some work travel coming up and my boss has asked that we try to all stay at the same hotel and share a rental car. I think this is perfectly reasonable (especially at one site where there’s really only one hotel) this is also how I’ve usually traveled for work before.

    However, my direct report (pseudo direct report) expressed that they were concerned about this because then we would be “working 24/7”.
    To be clear, we would not be sharing a hotel room, and we are salaried exempt.
    I think this is about my report wanting to be able to go their own way in the evenings/mornings, even if they do not end up actually going anywhere.
    Is there some argument that I could present that 1) this isn’t working 24/7, and that 2) this is really normal for work travel and 3) they won’t be trapped, they can get a taxi/uber if they want to go somewhere else, just not on the company dime, or they can just go to their hotel room?

    Am I off base for thinking that this is pretty normal for travel? Or is asking people to stay at the same hotel and share a rental car the same as asking them to work 24/7?

    Reply ↓
    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I’ve been traveling with my team for a couple weeks (home on weekends) and we don’t even have a rental car, the rented bus that takes us up to the site shuttles us to and from the training site. If we want to go anywhere else in the evenings, we can uber or rent our own car, or whatnot, but won’t be reimbursed for it. (A few people have also elected to drive themselves instead of taking the bus, but again no reimbursement.) Your DR is the one off-base I think.

      Reply ↓
    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I would imagine they’re not necessarily objecting to the hotel/car in and of themselves so much as assuming that because you’re already all together, that there will be an expectation that you’re spending evenings together as well.

      I feel like you can solve this really easily by just being upfront about your expectations, e.g. “We’re all staying together in the same hotel and carpooling because that makes the most sense for the business parts of our trip, but once our meetings wrap up for the day, everyone is free to spend their evenings how they wish.” If there are any evening requirements — e.g. a business dinner with the folks you’re meeting with — then just be clear about that.

      Reply ↓
      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        But if there aren’t a couple of easily accessible dinner options near the hotel, you kind of end up doing every dinner together by default. Nobody wants to eat delivery in their hotel room for a week.

        Reply ↓
        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          I don’t really follow since OP said they’re free to go wherever they want on their own dime if they want to escape their colleagues — is your point that you assume they won’t want to spend their money on taxis/public transit in order to do their own thing, so by default they’ll be stuck in their hotel room if they don’t go with their coworkers to dinner?

          Reply ↓
        2. JustaTech*

          I honestly think this is probably less about dinner than about the fact that this report is the most motion-needing person I’ve ever worked with.
          The last time we had a work trip we went for a walk before dinner that ended up being a 3 mile nature walk (some of which was a scramble to get back to the car before it got dark).
          So I think they’re concerned about not getting an opportunity to get in the motion they need.
          I think it’s also coming from a place of a very firm division of work and life. This report is a great employee, but is rigorous about taking all their vacation and not taking work home. Which I respect!
          I just don’t want them to be mad about our travel the whole time we’re there because it’s already going to be a challenging trip.

          Reply ↓
  86. Commander Shepard's Favorite Store*

    I have what I feel is probably a dumb resume question but it’s been so long since I had to make one that I have no idea what the answer is! I’m a chocolate teapot technician and have been for my entire career. There’s been some fluctuation in duties over the years but for the most part it’s been the same thing at each place. I have four different jobs on my resume and…they all look mostly the same. E.g., I have:

    – Hand-fabricated teapots from white, milk, and dark chocolate
    – Repaired broken chocolate teapots
    – Ensured all teapot orders were fulfilled on time

    listed under every single job (as well as a few other things). Because…that’s largely what I did! It’s not a job where there are big standout projects, extra funding to find, sales to increase, etc, so I really have nothing extra to highlight. I feel like this looks very bland and unimpressive, but I don’t know what else to add and I don’t know if I should remove any of the repetitive responsibilities because that is in fact what I was doing. I would greatly appreciate any advice on whether to leave it in, change up the wording between each job, or take it out/condense it.

    Not sure if it matters, but though I’m currently in the US I’m looking to apply to jobs elsewhere (at the moment, specifically Canada and New Zealand–yes I know they probably don’t want me, but my job, and various adjacent jobs, are on the critical skills list for both countries so can’t hurt to try).

    Reply ↓
  87. Disability Confident Scheme*

    In November, I applied for a job under the Disability Confident Scheme and I wrote here to ask suggestions about what reasonable adjustments to ask to an interviewer to get the job. I suffer from anxiety to the point of panic attacks. I am happy to report I got a job with the help of this scheme. It had been years my anxiety hadn’t screwed up an interview. Disclosing a disability before interview can be helpful, with the right employers. I work for a Local Authority in the UK.
    Thank you to those who gave me helpful suggestions.

    Reply ↓

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