my job offer was rescinded after I tried to negotiate

by Alison Green on February 4, 2025

A reader writes:

I’ve been applying to new jobs for about six months and finally got an offer for a job that I was genuinely excited about; it’s for a position that would be a step up in both title and responsibility, would let me work on interesting projects, and even would let me use a skill I went to school for but haven’t really been able to use professionally up until now.

When they sent me the formal job offer, the salary was a bit more than I’m making now, but I’ve always heard that it’s smart to try to negotiate for more money because this is the easiest time to get it (versus after you’re already working someplace and trying to negotiate for a raise). I successfully negotiated slight salary bumps when accepting my last two positions, and I’ve seen other people do it as well, so it didn’t occur to me that this would be seen as anything other than normal and expected.

So I asked if they had room to go up (I asked for about $8,000 more, figuring that they might offer me about half that, which I would have been happy with). There’s a pretty wide range for what jobs like this pay and my request wasn’t outside of what I’ve seen other jobs like this advertised for. I also didn’t say that I wouldn’t accept if they didn’t agree and I don’t think I was pushy about it. What I wrote in response to their email was: “I’m very excited about the position and wonder if you would you consider increasing the salary to $X.”

I would have accepted the job even if their answer was no, but I figured it wouldn’t hurt to see if they would go up.

The next day they responded back to me and said they couldn’t match what I was requesting and so they were pulling the offer. I immediately replied and said that I would accept the job at the original salary they offered, but the HR person replied that they were going to offer the position to another candidate instead.

I’m devastated by this. I wanted the job badly, and I would have taken it at the original number they named if they had simply told me that was as high as they could go. I don’t understand what I did wrong.

You can read my answer to this letter at New York Magazine today. Head over there to read it.

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{ 261 comments }

{ 261 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Sloanicota*

    I admit, given the times we’re in, when I accepted my new job offer this week I agreed to start immediately and didn’t push for as much as I would have – because I feel like there’s been an uptick in “rescinded” job offers or hiring freezes after the offer is extended. I am sad that I apparently missed the brief moment of time (during the Great Resignation) when candidates briefly had the upper hand.

    Reply ↓
    1. AnonInCanada*

      Especially with the flood of newly “resigned” Federal workers in the US seeking employment (eyes rolling in disgust at what’s happening in Washington right now), it’s going to get a lot more employer-friendly when it comes to job offers and negotiations.

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      1. Yankees fans are awesome!*

        Yep. I’m sorry, LW. You didn’t do anything wrong. It’s an employer’s market right now, unfortunately.

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        1. Clisby*

          I don’t think it can be entirely blamed on an “employer’s market.”

          An employer absolutely can say, “Our offer is firm. Please let us know if you still accept the job.” Of course, it would be better if they had stated upfront that they don’t negotiate salary, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with the employer refusing to negotiate.

          If the employer hasn’t been crystal-clear all along about a non-negotiation policy, rescinding an offer over a negotiating attempt is nuts.

          Reply ↓
            1. AlsoADHD*

              But good employers don’t want to be nuts necessarily. They still want to follow most norms even if they’d be a bit cheaper.

              Reply ↓
      2. Sloanicota*

        A lot of Fed types have also hit a hiring freeze which can play out essentially like a rescinded offer. So that normalizes the practice for everyone.

        Reply ↓
      3. CeeDoo*

        I don’t understand how anyone thinks increasing unemployment is a good idea. Doing away with all those jobs is just going to glut the job market, and then who will be able to afford to be a consumer?

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    3. Honey Badger*

      If the salary and benefits are acceptable to me, I accept the job. “Always negotiate” just for the heck of it, may backfire.

      Reply ↓
  2. Less Bread More Taxes*

    I have had this happen before and a recruiter at my current company also talks about regularly rescinding offers when candidates try to negotiate. From what my friends have reported, this seems to be more and more common. It’s very concerning.

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    1. Sloanicota*

      Do you think it would matter how the candidate approached it? Like, enthusiastic wording in the email, email vs phone, etc, or is it an automatic negotiate = rescind? I do also wonder if the rules are changing somewhat because salaries are much more likely to be posted in the job advert (which is a good thing overall) so employers are less tolerant of candidates pushing for more. If OP was in the range posted, just wanted to be on the higher end, I would hope the employer would be understanding.

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      1. ferrina*

        I don’t think the medium would make a difference in most cases (maybe if the HR were already trying to stop this trend, but otherwise no). Pulling an offer like this is a tactic- it’s sending a message that candidates have no power.

        It’s a trend right now that corporations seem to be trying to see what they can get away with. I wonder why (sarcasm)

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      2. College Career Counselor*

        In many job advertisements, the range is so broad as to be essentially meaningless (“$40k-$140k). I think it’s more a case of “we don’t have to pay this applicant X+$8k when we can move down the list and get someone to do it for the salary we want.” But they’re still crappy for pulling the offer because the candidate negotiated.

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        1. Clisby*

          Yeah, all they had to do was say “No, we have no flexibility on salary” or some such. The candidate can take it or leave it.

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      3. fhqwhgads*

        I don’t think it matters how the candidate approached it. The candidate in the letter, to me, approached it perfectly, absolutely normally, and still got the shut down. So someone who’d rescind over any attempt is going to do that no matter what, and there isn’t a real point in trying to find a magic phrasing that never causes an unreasonable person to rescind. I mean, sure if someone’s a jerk, that can and should have consequences. But this letter is a near-perfect example of how to negotiate. So someone reacting poorly to THAT, it’s a them problem, not a problem with how it was asked.

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      4. Honey Badger*

        I think it depends on the level of the job. If it’s a job that requires an advanced degree or licensing or a lot of experience in a high profile position, I think you have a lot more room to negotiate.

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      1. Less Bread More Taxes*

        The person I know it happened to was not a native English speaker, and I can’t help but think that his words may have come across rude when he just doesn’t have a good grasp of nuances. Which is obviously horribly unfair.

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        1. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

          Women are routinely penalized for negotiating and then ourlower salaries are blamed on not negotiating. It’s a thing.

          Reply ↓
        2. MCMonkeybean*

          The bias is that it’s been shown women and people of color are far more likely to get a response like this when it comes to negotiation attempts.

          Reply ↓
        1. Lydia*

          Please see the responses from Mark This Confidential and MCMonkeybean. It’s a thing, it’s going to get worse in the current situation we’re in, and if we can call it out, we should. (“Can” being vital. Don’t stick your neck out unless you feel safe to do so.)

          Reply ↓
    3. Ellis Bell*

      I’m curious if you would recommend your company to others. Is this just a quirk of theirs when hiring, or do they expect a servile, grateful response from employees going forward? When I moved from the private sector to the public, I misjudged their ability to have any wiggle room on salary; it’s very tightly banded to the job post and linked to number of years service. I must have seemed out of touch, but they just explained the situation and they’ve never rescinded when others tried to negotiate either.

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    4. Artemesia*

      How many of these are for women trying to negotiate. I know several women who have had issues negotiating including getting a hiring bonus but then being mistreated by the manager after coming on board. I have never yet known a man punished for trying to negotiate.

      Reply ↓
      2. ImprobableSpork*

        I am a cis white man and I had an offer rescinded due to negotiating salary last year. It’s pretty standard practice in tech these days.

        Reply ↓
    1. Smithy*

      Agree. This screams to me as a case of “man’s rejection is god’s protection”.

      As mentioned before, I do think that if there’s language in the offer or during the interview process that there can be no negotiating and someone seeks to negotiate that could be viewed differently. But negotiation on salary is both so common generically, and depending on the industry can be really the only time you get a significant pay bump – that it seems wildly cruel to pull an offer.

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    3. Pizza Rat*

      I found it quite strange. Why not go back and say, “The offer is firm, we are unable to negotiate. Are you still interested?”

      I actually had that conversation once. Took the job and I was really happy there while the funding lasted.

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    4. Rex Libris*

      Yeah, there’s only two sane scenarios I can think of for this. Either 1)They were on the fence between candidate A and B, perhaps candidate B was more enthusiastic but A was more experienced, and the negotiation fed into a concern that led them to second-guess and pick candidate B, or 2) For some reason the $8,000 ask was seen as out of line to the point where they were concerned the candidate would be unsatisfied and a flight risk, like the salary itself was only $40,ooo to start with, or it was an industry where that Just Isn’t Done, or whatever.

      Reply ↓
  4. Seven times*

    The first time I ever hired anyone, the person attempted to negotiate. I went to my boss with the request and he said “well, they don’t get the job!” I had to stop him and suggest that we let the candidate know that we couldn’t budge on the offer (it was state funded). He seemed baffled, but allowed it, but he never considered that we could just say, “sorry, we can’t”.

    I think it was generational, but we almost lost a great candidate (who really turned out great) over this.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      I also think if the employer knows this offer is the only number they’re willing to offer, they need to lay the groundwork for that both in their interview process and in the email. “We have a firm salary of X and do not negotiate because of Y and Z” is language I’ve seen even in job postings TBH. (Personally I don’t love it when they just say “because of equity” – I need more explanation than that!).

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      1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        I would interpret “because of equity” to mean “because historically and currently white men are more likely to attempt to negotiate than people from other demographics, so in an attempt to avoid paying white men more for the same position we choose not to negotiate our offers”.

        Reply ↓
        1. Claire*

          Yes, this, and also there is tons of research showing that women who negotiate pay a professional price for it later.

          Reply ↓
          1. Sloanicota*

            What? I haven’t heard that. I always negotiated in my career and never regretted it, and I don’t think I experienced any blowback (realizing anecdotes are not data). I don’t want to give women the impression they shouldn’t negotiate unless there’s some really convincing data I haven’t encountered.

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            1. Froggy*

              I don’t want to give women the idea not to negotiate, but there are solid data that negotiations don’t work the same way for women and bipoc, including loss of offers and professional costs (including image). this is part of why the narrative of “women are paid less because they don’t negotiate (i.e., it is your fault)” is just not a good representation of reality.

              Reply ↓
            2. Artemesia*

              I personally know women who have been punished for negotiating — one had it pulled, another was given a grudging signing bonus and then treated badly by her manager. Men rarely get this.

              Reply ↓
              1. Wendy Darling*

                I had a boss who resented that I negotiated a higher salary and held it over my head for the entire brief time I worked there. Every time she wasn’t happy with anything I did she was like “You need to show that you’re adding value, considering what we’re paying you.” (And even after I negotiated, the pay was absurdly low — I just negotiated it up to “I can live on this probably if I budget carefully” from “I cannot live on this salary”.)

                This boss was also totally bonkers in nearly every respect, though, so it’s hard to say if taking the original salary on offer would have helped. She may well have just found something else to be a jerk about.

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            3. HalJordan*

              https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2023/11/02/women-more-likely-to-negotiate-salaries-but-still-earn-less-than-men-research-says/

              Study above–20 years ago, it was unusual for women to negotiate. It’s common now, but it hasn’t wound up paying the expected dividends. (I.e., the problem isn’t “Women Don’t Ask”, it’s “Women Aren’t Valued the Same”)

              Negotiating can work, but it’s not a panacea for gender equity and it can backfire, especially in employer’s markets, as the OP here discovered

              Reply ↓
        2. Sloanicota*

          Yeah, I mean, that is nice but it’s not really the info I want … I want to know why you believe this is a solid, competitive offer for the work. What analysis has the company done to ensure this is a fair salary for the role?

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          2. Great Frogs of Literature*

            When I see something like, “Because of equity,” my assumption is not that they mean “This is a market-rate offer” but rather “We can’t pay you more than this without adjusting the salaries of everyone else in the role/department/something. That doesn’t mean it’s a good salary, just that they don’t have the budget to make the changes their policies dictate if they made it higher.

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            1. MigraineMonth*

              Yup. My read is, “We don’t want to negotiate your offer because then we’d have to adjust the entire salary band for others in this role to make sure everything was equitable.”

              I once accepted a job offer without negotiating, and was contacted before starting to say they were increasing the offered salary because they’d just finished updating everyone’s salaries.

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        3. Pizza Rat*

          I was once told during an interview, “We don’t negotiate salary because that’s unfair to people who aren’t good negotiators.”

          Reply ↓
      2. Scandinavian Vacationer*

        It can also mean “we have current employees at a salary level that we are not willing to bump up if a newbie comes in higher.” Sometimes called “internal equity.”

        Reply ↓
        1. Sloanicota*

          Yeah, I mean “we want to continue underpaying our current employees” is not a compelling reason for me personally, assuming the salary listed isn’t one that seems fair. I would like to hear “X Corp conducts a benchmark assessment every Y years to ensure our salaries are competitive in the market and here is a clear explanation of where everyone falls in this range.” But I guess that’s the system working, in that they’re transparent about what they pay (and mean it) and I don’t apply. That’s better than everyone wasting time.

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          1. fhqwhgads*

            It’s not inherently “we want to continue underpaying our current employees” though. Sure, sometimes it is, but sometimes it’s more like “we’re not going to hire an unknown in at the 90th percentile just because they asked, and we’re comfortable with what we’re paying our existing, proven employees”. Like, where I work right now is genuinely competitive (we also do negotiate), but if we gave the “internal equity” reason, it’d be sincere. In the sense of “we just did a massive salary study, and are reasonably sure we’re competitive and don’t have gender-based skews in our pay, and we intend to keep it that way.”

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          2. LL*

            It doesn’t really matter if it’s compelling to you or not. If the company won’t negotiate, they won’t negotiate and you shouldn’t apply to the job if that’s a problem for you.

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      3. Seven times*

        We weren’t able to post the amount at that time, because we were trying to get a higher amount for the role, but lost to HR in the end. On the upside, we were able to advertise it better afterward and were able to get the person to a higher number than they had hoped for a few months later.

        Reply ↓
      4. LaminarFlow*

        In my industry (tech) equity means stock grants. If a company refers to their comp structure as “Total Compensation” it could mean something like:
        Total $100
        Base: $50
        Stock Grant: 10 RSUs
        In sum, the employee’s take home pay is $50, and HR will lean on RSUs as part of their comp if a raise is ever requested. However, stock values vary widely, and while the employee can opt to automatically cash out their stock grant, it might not amount to much at a small company or start-up that hasn’t exploded yet.

        I am also a middle aged woman who is starting the job hunt process. I will most likely not be negotiating salary, despite having 20+ years of experience. I have heard far too many stories of offers being rescinded because the candidate tried to negotiate. IDK if it has anything to do with man vs. woman, but I am not counting it out.

        Reply ↓
        1. WillowSunstar*

          Yes, also middle-aged and job searching because of private sector layoffs. These stories are scaring me. I guess so many are being laid off now, companies can shop around.

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      5. Lacey*

        Yes, I’ve had interviewers say, “Our number is firm at X amount – given that, does it make sense to continue?” and I think that’s the only way that makes sense when the offer isn’t flexible.

        Reply ↓
    2. Bunny Girl*

      I used to have a boss, who was terrible in every aspect anyway, who refused to offer people an interview or an offer if they didn’t answer the phone the first time he tried to call them. He said it proved that they weren’t that interested. I thought that was the most ridiculous BS I’ve ever heard.

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      1. Mari*

        I once got an interview (that turned into a job less that 14 hours after the phone call) because I answered the phone :)

        Five days before term started, a full time college professor walked into the Chair’s office and said “I’m going on Medical Leave in 30 minutes. I have to have eye surgery tomorrow or I’ll be blind within six months and I’m going to be out a year. I’m sorry” and walked out.

        The Chair basically handed off every class she could to the folks who still had room, and had to hire someone new to fill the last three slots. She pulled every resume HR could give her, ordered them by ‘most promising’ and started calling at 8:00pm. She didn’t leave messages if people didn’t answer, just went to the next one. I was number six in the pile, and I was the first one who answered.

        Funny thing – I shouldn’t have been home, I should have been playing on my rec sports team, but I sprained my ankle two days earlier and couldn’t play. I answered, she introduced herself, asked me six questions and then said “Can you be in my office at 9am for a formal interview?” Yes I could.

        She offered me the contract at 9:30. I went to my first staff meeting at 10am. I held that contract a year, and they moved me to full time the following year. I LOVED that job – but my husband was offered a job in the US (we’re Canadian) and it was too good to pass up… so we went after four years at that college. Still one of the best jobs I’ve ever had – and it was all because the management of that department ROCKED – Dean, Chair, Program Heads, all of them.

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        1. AnotherOne*

          my (now former) supervisor was filling a short-term contract role and had been referred a possible hire but due to our internal guidelines has to interview X number of candidates.

          so he called candidates who submitted resumes, anyone who answered until he got to the designated number, got an interview.

          was it unfair to the people who submitted resumes? probably but this person was so overqualified for the work we had her doing, it was ridiculous. but it was one of those timings of the economy kicked rocks and she needed work for a few months.

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        2. Bunny Girl*

          Right? I was like there are a million reasons someone might not answer when you call. That’s such a stupid standard to hold someone to.

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          1. Mari*

            I think it depends on the situation – in this case, my Chair (let’s call her Ava) had a position that had to be filled ASAP – Like it or not, there were three classes of 35 students that were going to start in 6 days and she didn’t have a teacher for them. And they were mandatory classes for the students, and she couldn’t exactly combine them (writing classes).

            Because of that, she had to fill that slot ASAP – I’m not joking when I say I had the job less than 14 hours after she called. You leave a message, they get back to you the next day, you bring them in the day after…now you’re down to less than four days to be up to speed and in the classroom – that’s not viable.

            I suspect, based on what happened the following year, that Ava had a short list of 10 or 12, and that if no-one had answered, she would have gone through it again. But, in this case (15 week contract; got to get started, well, honestly, three weeks PRIOR to when she called), it was the right move, and I’m not just saying that because I got the job.

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      3. Seashell*

        Was this before or after the age of cell phone ubiquity?

        If it was before, that means that people couldn’t apply for work with him while working another job or while ever needing to go to the grocery store or doctor’s office.

        If after, there are plenty of times that phone calls don’t actually ring on my phone.

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    3. Paint N Drip*

      AHHHHH -_-
      I swear ego is the reason for so many of these situations. We want employers to be rational, logical, and reasonable – but the PERSON making the decision is still human, some truly unable to separate personal emotions from work. We discuss here all the time that hiring is unbalanced with the power at the feet of the company – I genuinely think some ‘hirers’ internalize that power dynamic in a dramatic fashion. If hirer feels superior and makes an offer, if the employee BETTER be 100% gratitude (any pushback = bad attitude, even if pushback is calm respectful question) – the corollary with abusive relationships is uncanny

      Reply ↓
  5. tjames*

    I worked for a newspaper once where the editor made this a practice. He said he did it for two reasons–one, it shows you’d be difficult to manage (he was a former Army drill sergeant and used basic training as his management model and he couldn’t tolerate reporters or editors who questioned him), and two, journalism was a calling and if you were only interested in making more money, then he didn’t think you were sufficiently invested in the cause (this was actually quite common in journalism, including among reporters, and has been used to justify all sorts of management abuse over the years).

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    1. Anon Architect*

      Ugh. That attitude is so common in architecture. How dare the candidate want to know about salary, benefits, and PTO upfront! We can’t possibly put the salary in the job add because it sends the wrong message! We only want people working here who REALLY want to be in architecture!
      You know what we get instead? Just OK candidates, because the good ones find places that want to pay them what they are worth and give them that info upfront. We can’t improve our level of design (management’s stated goal) if you aren’t willing to do things that would let you hire the high quality designers…

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      1. AngryOctopus*

        That is so fascinating, because I do want to work in my field! But that doesn’t mean that I don’t also want to be paid fairly and given good benefits!

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      2. Jules the First*

        I have lost track, over the years, of the number of architecture firms who have trumpeted below-the-legal-minimum days of holiday in their list of “benefits”. My all time favourite questionable employment benefit though remains the firm that put “designer bathrooms” on their list of benefits.

        (But if it’s any consolation, although I do what I can to change it whenever I have the opportunity to be of influence, many of the big name design firms are also offering crappy pay and lousy benefits and coasting on the fact that people want to work there anyway to get the name on their job history…come to think of it, one of them was even ballsy enough to list that as a “benefit”!)

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        1. Anon Architect*

          You mean the 7.5 holidays I get? We’re unusual in that we actually get MLK off, but we *don’t* get the day after Thanksgiving, soooooo…..
          But yes, they are very proud of those 7.5 days (New Year, MLK, Memorial, July 4, Labor, Thanksgiving, .5 day Christmas Eve, Christmas)

          Most of my friends are in tech, and they don’t understand that this is industry standard. Like you, I’m trying to push for change, but I’ve been trying for 20 years, and it’s just finally starting to have an impact

          Reply ↓
      3. Salty Caramel*

        Getting salary information up front from recruiters is like trying to give a dog their medication. Getting benefits information up front? That’s like trying to pill a cat.

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      4. LadyVet*

        Yikeity yikes!

        There’s actually a group called Military Veterans in Journalism that thankfully advocates for good salaries and freelance fees for veterans who want to be in journalism.

        It drives me nuts to hear about other veterans being pricks. There’s just no excuse.

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    2. Meat Oatmeal*

      Yeah! “Journalism is a calling” is weaponized that way far too often. My newsroom eventually got fed up and unionized. Best thing we ever did.

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      1. Working under my down comforter*

        Agreed. I worked for a newspaper chain for almost 10 years that was slow to modernizing with the web (the publisher passed on investing in online advertising when the market was hot) and assumed our employers would manage with outdated equipment and low salaries. More and more people left. A longtimer gave me a hard time about my resignation but I didn’t point out how their executive position holding spouse and comfortable living was different from my circumstances.

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      3. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

        Boy howdy! Embarrassed to admit I bought into that at the beginning of my career. Even told my interviewer “If I wanted to make a ton of money, I wouldn’t have applied here.”

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      1. The Devil Wears Talbots*

        It’s in all areas of higher education as well. However, we are seeing mass departures from employees and faculty with decades of experience who are completely leaving education. I hope that they finally get compensated for their worth and can use their (well-earned) free time to volunteer at places they really like just actually spend time with friends and family.

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        1. Selina Luna*

          Not just higher education, either, though many states are acting as though kindergarten classrooms with 30+ children is acceptable and business as usual, so nothing will be done anytime soon.

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      2. Landry*

        12-plus years in journalism and I promise you it’s a thing. My starting salary in the mid-2000s was about $26,000/year. It didn’t seem bad at the time for a new graduate in a low COL area, but it was super frustrating to see people in other fields complain about starting out in the mid-40s when it took me 10 years to get there. The industry really started contracting a lot a couple of years after I started (layoffs at least once a year, more cutbacks that I can remember), which made me scared to negotiate for any type of raise. I was fortunate to get a few fairly significant merit raises, but hindsight shows me how badly I was paid.

        I’d never work in journalism again, both for the economics and the narcissism that is rampant in the field. I’m in a field that’s somewhat adjacent now and uses many of the same skills. The pay is better but the environment sucks. I wish I would have chosen a different industry entirely.

        Reply ↓
        1. MAC*

          I started in broadcast journalism in 1991 at $12,500/year. My sister was a senior in HS and earned more per hour at her fast food job! I think when I left the field 4 years later, I was all the way up to $16K.

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    4. CeeDoo*

      I hate all that false positivity “we don’t work for the income, we work for the outcome” trash. They’ve used that on teachers for decades. All jobs deserve a living wage! It doesn’t help that on tv and in movies, the worker who is giving their job 70 hours a week is the one who has the most meaningful results.

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      1. epicdemiologist*

        My mantra is, “Any job not worth a living wage can be done by the boss on their own time.” (Child of 2 teachers, wife of a former journalist.)

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    5. thatsjustme*

      That sounds like a nightmare in any workplace, but especially bad in a newsroom, where you want employees to be persistent, assertive people with a healthy distrust of authority. The “calling” thing is very common as you say, and is part of why the industry is overrun with wealthy nepo babies: People who don’t come from money need salaries they can actually live on.

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      1. Resentful Oreos*

        And the more the industry is packed with nepo babies, the less actual reporting on issues that affect the general public occur. That’s a huge reason behind the deterioration in quality of journalism over the past few decades (as is the disappearance of smaller newspapers that reported on important local issues).

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      2. MigraineMonth*

        If *asking questions* is considered insubordination and difficult to manage, then yes, I would be a nightmare to manage. On the other hand, that manager sounds like a nightmare, and I’m surprised that level rigidity even worked in the military.

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    6. Pizza Rat*

      I’m in the non-profit sector because I prefer working for mission-based/cause-based organizations rather than those aiming for profit. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to pay my mortgage and eat.

      Reply ↓
    7. Ellis Bell*

      See also: “If you become famous as a journalist you can springboard into a much better job!”, and “Lots of people would love this opportunity. Some of them don’t even need the money.” Ah, yes. Make the fourth estate the playground of the rich; what could possibly go wrong?

      Reply ↓
    8. Burnt Out Librarian*

      “X is a calling” is something we call vocational awe in librarianship, and it’s a problem in a lot of professions, including caretaking, education, and honestly, lots of feminized fields. Like yes, I feel strongly aligned with the beliefs in this field, but I can’t pay my bills with that. Just because the position feels important on a personal level doesn’t mean you should suffer to do it. Absolute horsebeans and weaponized to exploit a lot of workers.

      Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        Absolutely true. I think there are also many “prestige” jobs with low barriers to entry where nearly everyone is underpaid and treated like crap because there are a million people who would do your job for free. I think acting would be one of those fields if they hadn’t unionized.

        Reply ↓
        1. Pescadero*

          Acting is one of those fields, even with the union.

          To qualify for SAG-AFTRA health insurance in 2024, performers must earn at least $27,000 in covered earnings or work at least 104 days in a year… and less than 13% of members qualify.

          92% of SAG-AFTRA’s active members earn less than $80,000 a year.

          Reply ↓
  6. Direct to my point*

    I started doing this if I had more than one desirable candidate.
    Why put myself through the hassle? And who knows if the potential hire would ever be satisfied?

    Reply ↓
    1. Justme, The OG*

      If you like having to continually hire people, go at it.

      I work to get money. I don’t do this for free. Of course I’m going to want as much as they could give me for the position.

      Reply ↓
    2. Sloanicota*

      Employers who behave this way deserve employees who bounce the minute someone makes them a better offer. Start a new job, six months in you’re searching again, gone at eight months for that extra $5K they didn’t want to work with you on. I also feel like there’s a high overlap with “I don’t believe in raises” among this set of employers too.

      Reply ↓
      1. Pocket Mouse*

        Yeah – is it also a “hassle” to get someone a raise? How on earth will you know your staff will be satisfied with higher pay once they get it, other than it being literally the thing they asked (and probably made a convincing case) for? Much better to keep them at a salary you know they’re unsatisfied with, even though they know they’re worth more and have the bandwidth for bettering their employment conditions! /s

        Reply ↓
      2. Antilles*

        I also feel like there’s a high overlap with “I don’t believe in raises” among this set of employers too.
        That thought crossed my mind too.

        Reply ↓
    3. HonorBox*

      Don’t you owe it to yourself to at least tell the one to whom you’re making an offer – clearly there was a reason they’re getting the offer first – that your offer is what it is and let them tell you no?

      Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        Ah, but if you told them your expectations this couldn’t be used as a secret compliance test and filter out people who have reasonable professional expectations!

        Reply ↓
      1. pope suburban*

        And then the subsequent hassle of having an employee who is willing to have difficult conversations, and to look closely at agreements/assignments before accepting? The idea that this is only a negative is a red flag. I’m dealing with this myself right now, having caught my employer lowballing me pretty seriously, and my perspective is that they didn’t hire me to be stupid, or a bad researcher, or someone who won’t review contracts and speak up if something is off (This last being the whole job, and important in aerospace). I don’t know how it’s going to go, but I’m not doing this to be a pain, and if it comes to it I’m going to point out that I’m showcasing the reasons for which they hired me. I don’t know how it’ll go but I don’t regret taking the stand and I certainly don’t think it means I’m a bad employee or difficult person.

        Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        Clearly someone who’s ready to have the tough management conversations with their employee. What do you do if they’re running late a couple of times, fire them rather than point out there’s an issue?

        Reply ↓
      2. Clisby*

        Really. My preference would be that salary is always firm from the beginning, no room for negotiation, so everybody knows where they stand.

        Reply ↓
    7. Kevin Sours*

      How much hassle is it to say “I’m sorry but the offer is firm”? Because it doesn’t sound like a lot to me really. And it goes both ways. Are you the kind of employer who is going to flip out if an employee asks for a raise? Pushing employees for having the temerity to ask for more isn’t a good look and I would definitely tell people about this if it happened to me.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        I’ve always felt fortunate to be in a sales-adjacent type role where “don’t take no for an answer” and negotiating on behalf of the employer are part of the role. Meaning, if you filter out candidates who are a bit pushy and can advocate, you are deliberately hiring people who will be bad in your job. And I have made this point before when I worried I was annoying a potential employer, too!

        Reply ↓
    8. ferrina*

      And who knows if the potential hire would ever be satisfied?

      This can work in your favor. You want candidates who are looking for ways to grow and improve, not candidates that want to stagnate (well, unless you do want people who stagnate). This is a person that sees not just What Is, but also What Could Be. Yes, there’s a handful of people that only use that for how it benefits them, but there’s more that use that in their role, finding more efficient ways to do things or expand on what they can do (and yes, you’ll have to pay them accordingly when they outgrow their role and are performing responsibilities at the next level). It can be good not to be satisfied!

      And now I have that song from Hamilton stuck in my head….ooh, you will never be satisfied…

      Reply ↓
      1. HonorBox*

        Agree with what you’ve said. I want someone who wants more. Sure, we all want more money. But if someone is trying to grow, trying to do more/better, and no satisfied with a status quo (because the status quo isn’t always perfect), good on them.

        And projecting “they’ll never be satisfied” because they tried asking for a bit more money when you made an offer is quite a leap. Asking if there’s flexibility in salary – whether it is asking that or asking for a specific number – does not directly equal dissatisfaction.

        Reply ↓
    9. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      You say you only do this when you have more than one “desirable” candidate. So if someone applies when the pool is less competitive, you’re willing to negotiate and give them more. So you’re paying less talented people more money and more talented people less money.
      And you already know if the candidates who negotiate “would ever be satisfied” because you’ve hired some in the past.

      Hiring good people and paying them what they are worth is less hassle than this nonsense. But who knows if you could ever be a decent manager? It requires marginal effort and you’re definitely not willing to put yourself through that.

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    10. Manic Sunday*

      Without even getting into why this practice harms you by driving away good candidates … if you feel simply saying “no” is a hassle, then you’re not cut out to do hiring or management.

      Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        Seriously. This doesn’t seem like a power move, it seems like the wimpiest of moves. Why so worried about negotiating in good faith or even just saying “no” unless you’re afraid they’ll talk you into something you don’t want?

        Reply ↓
    11. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      So you’re willing to pass up the person you decided was the best candidate just to avoid having a conversation with them? I mean, if it’s a firm offer, you can just tell them that.

      Reply ↓
    12. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      Why put yourself through the hassle? Because managing employees and workflow and budget is your job.

      Probably for the best, though. Talented employees deserve managers who don’t think managing is a hassle.

      Reply ↓
    14. NotAnotherManager!*

      Well, you’re kind of making assumptions about why they’re asking for more money – they may have a salary survey that says yours is under, they may have a parent or career center feeding them advice, or they may think, well, it never hurts to ask.

      Personally, I find it more of hassle to spend time sourcing another candidate and going through more interviews v. just saying, “the offer is firm, please let us know your decision by X”. One takes, at best, days, the other takes about 60 seconds.

      It also smells a little of trying to avoid people who may be willing to advocate for themselves as well, which is, at best, lazy management and, at worst, only hiring people you think will take whatever you dish out at them.

      Reply ↓
      1. HonorBox*

        Even if you have two candidates who you’d be happy with, there’s still a very fine line you’re walking if you just withdraw an offer and assume the other will take it. What if the second person has another offer they’re weighing against yours? What if the second person tries to negotiate? Withdrawing an offer and reaching out to candidate 1b takes more time than just telling someone there’s no wiggle room.

        Reply ↓
    16. Elle*

      Enjoy your team full of people who are happy to settle for “good enough.” I’m sure that will work out great.

      Reply ↓
    18. fhqwhgads*

      Gosh, if you think this “who knows if the potential hire would ever be satisfied” is a genuine concern for MOST candidates, you’ve not done your due diligence during the earlier parts of the hiring process. Reasonable people don’t approach totally normal salary negotiation that way at all.

      Reply ↓
    20. One more thing*

      That’s a really shitty thing to do — negotiating an offer has been a commonly accepted business practice for decades upon decades, and is widely considered a norm. If you’re blithely rescinding offers without ever having indicated that you are unlikely to budge on salary, all you’re doing is punishing people for carrying out a typical business practice. And that’s before we even consider the systemic inequity that POC and women have to contend with is terms of compensation.

      If you see having a simple conversation (one line in an email, really) with your top candidate as a hassle, it sounds like you have no investment in your staff at all. That’s a really bad look.

      Reply ↓
    1. tina turner*

      Yes. This may not be a terrible mgr, they may think this makes sens. But it doesn’t sound like one I’d WANT. Aspire for a great one.

      Reply ↓
    1. Querier*

      I was puzzled why there are three-year-old comments on the Cut article, personally. Not that I mind TBH! Just curious.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        It’s because it’s an update to an older column (new letter, updated advice, but replacing the previous Q&A on the topic). You can always tell if that’s the case there because the publication date will say “updated.”

        Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      Friends, we go through this every time. I’m sorry you couldn’t read it but sometimes Alison promotes her work in other media which is how she earns a living. If you run into a paywall, please just move on. We all know.

      Reply ↓
      1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        When I read the article, there was a banner saying it was free for a limited time… so I assumed that was true for everyone?

        Reply ↓
    4. WellRed*

      Not sure if there’s a point to this comment but there’s a certain irony here, on a letter about advocating for higher pay and implying that the article should be free for you.

      Reply ↓
    5. Lily Rowan*

      I guess I’ll be the person to say this! One of the ways Alison makes a living is by writing for The Cut. One of the ways The Cut has money to pay her is by restricting their articles to subscribers.

      Reply ↓
  9. Aggretsuko*

    I’m somehow not at all shocked to hear this.

    I’m glad I work for state government where negotiation is not an option, I would be so afraid to speak up and negotiate.

    Reply ↓
    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Direct to My Point writes, people who ask questions about compensation are a hassle so he will not go further when someone asks if he is willing to negotiate. Alison writes this is not the norm, this is not indicative of a good company, good hiring or good people. But with the flood of federal employees entering the market, the post Covid “candidate favored market” is correcting.
      So yeah, I think you are wise in this climate.

      Reply ↓
  10. KK*

    I keep seeing on LinkedIn and Reddit that this is becoming more & more commonplace. In these times, I would have to say if I wanted to negotiate, I’d ask for more PTO than a higher salary. As much as we don’t like it, it’s the employer’s market, not the candidates.

    Reply ↓
    1. Laura*

      This. With my current job I asked for more PTO (I’d been in my previous role 15+ years so it was a big step down in PTO). Current company has pretty strict policies linking PTO to tenure, but they did give me a higher starting salary instead. I would have preferred the PTO but I’m happy with the salary bump.

      Reply ↓
  11. Mrs. Smith*

    I’m so sorry. I’ve had this happen to me before, and it ended up being indicative of internal dysfunction at the company where I was trying to work. I know this is cold comfort when you’ve lost out on an opportunity you were very excited about, but I would encourage you to read this situation as generously as possible in terms of your actions, and conclude that ultimately their decision to rescind the offer was not a reflection on your qualifications or actions. Best of luck.

    Reply ↓
    1. Goldenrod*

      Yes, honestly, I agree with Alison and Mrs. Smith that this was a bullet dodged! You would have run into other dysfunction once you started the job.

      My first thought was that something unrelated happened – i.e. the niece of the CEO suddenly wanted the job – or the person who quit changed their mind – whatever it was, even if it was something like that, it’s still a bullet dodged.

      I wish you the best of luck, and I think you will find something better soon! Keep us updated!

      Reply ↓
  12. HonorBox*

    An employer doing this is operating in bad faith. It doesn’t have anything to do with the current job market or the world around us. If you’re making an offer to someone, they’re someone you see as a positive addition to your business. Unless the attempt to negotiate is completely out of left field – asking for double the offered salary for instance or asking for the company to buy them a Lamborghini – there is no harm in telling the candidate what you can offer and letting them decide. To me this is the same sort of bad faith as not giving a candidate a day or two to make a decision or suggesting that the first person to accept the offer is getting the job.

    Reply ↓
  13. Parenthesis Guy*

    I think it also depends somewhat on the situation. There was one place I got an offer from that told me they had been looking for someone to fill the position for a year. I was pretty comfortable that I could ask for another 10% without any problems.

    But if you’re early in your career and can be easily replaced… well that’s a harder position to negotiate from. But I still think you probably dodged a bullet, even if it doesn’t seem so right now.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, when I started work, I heard “always negotiate, every time” – the assumption was that companies deliberately low-balled candidates hoping they were “suckers” too foolish to realize that was just the starting offer. Don’t want to be a sucker? Negotiate, they’re expecting you too. TBH, that’s kind of a weird unwritten series of rules and game playing, and I wouldn’t actually mind if we’re moving to a period of greater transparency where offers are real. But if we’re changing the rules, someone needs to tell us (and that means employers need to be *really* leading with fair, solid offers, which they should be able to back up with evidence).

      Reply ↓
      1. Resentful Oreos*

        I agree with your comment. If we are, indeed, moving to a model of transparency, where offers are real and not “let’s lowball the sucker,” then good. But job seekers ought to be told this.

        I know that when I started work, back in the Dark Ages, the rule was what you said: companies low-balled, hoping for patsies who would just accept the offer, so you always negotiated. This was before the Internet and also before some states just recently mandated salary transparency. I think maybe companies in general are moving to a more “what you see is what you get” model and not “ha ha let’s see how many marks we can reel in”.

        I still think rescinding an offer on a dime is a pretty extreme move. They could have just said “our offer is firm, sorry.”

        Reply ↓
      2. HonorBox*

        Agree with you, as well! And even if we do shift and candidates get the best offer out of the gate, there is still zero harm in respectfully telling them that the offer they’ve received is the best offer. No need to penalize someone for asking the question.

        Reply ↓
    1. K Smith*

      Yup.

      Even if this employer were to go back to their original salary and offer you the job, they’re going to pull this same sh*t every time you ask for a raise, promotion, time off, sick leave, etc.

      Reply ↓
  15. Dust Bunny*

    I don’t think this is the most likely scenario, but the LW says that there is a wide range of pay in this area but what is the range in their general, or comparable, cost-of-living areas? The request might have been big-picture reasonable but at the upper end locally. Although the prospective employer should have just said that.

    Reply ↓
  16. PieAdmin*

    I remember reading a few other letters on here where the OP tried to negotiate salary and the job offer was pulled in response. One was the OP was already happy with the offer but 5 separate people told her she should negotiate and were astonished when the offer was rescinded. Another OP had been job searching for a year and this was the first offer she got and she only asked for a few thousand dollars more.

    Reply ↓
    1. Zona the Great*

      I’d love to see a comparison on how much this happens to women vs men. I’m always astonished that the men in my life will negotiate for the top of the range with no qualms while we twist ourselves into knots trying to get a couple grand more. Do men get their offers pulled as much as we do for trying to negotiate or are they seen as strong and with gumption?

      Reply ↓
      2. AlsoADHD*

        My current CPO worked in recruitment for many years (talent acquisition), and he doesn’t let our company negotiate anymore, unless someone challenges market rate with data or something (but he also makes the TA team constantly research and be competitive with slightly above market comp in all areas). Many companies he’s worked for or consulted with he noticed even when women were negotiating (with a predominantly female TA team), orgs and managers and even recruiters were less likely to take women seriously and more likely to get miffed they tried to negotiate. He’s not mentioned rescinded offers but definitely how the treatment and outcomes were often too different. Another company where he was VP changed the rule (no negotiating, just offer good market plus) and he saw a huge increase in retention, a reduction in time to fill, lower costs, etc. It’s nice to work for someone who will promote what’s right and has data to back it up and clout to get it done. But yeah, I buy women get this blowback more.

        Reply ↓
        1. AlsoADHD*

          We don’t rescind to be clear AND we mention the offer agreement (no negotiation) and salary range in the job ad and first call! No negotiation, but by the time an offer is made, the candidate shouldn’t be surprised anyway.

          Reply ↓
    2. Cranky Old Bat*

      There seems to be a trend of employers feeling, “Well, you’ve got some nerve!” when they make an offer. As if they aren’t paying as little as they can get away with.

      Reply ↓
  17. Abogado Avocado*

    LW, I am sorry you had this happen, but I suspect you missed a big bullet. A place that doesn’t negotiate on salary is, as Alison says in New York magazine, is outside business norms. And if they’re outside business norms on negotiating salary, you have to wonder what else they’re outside the norms on. (Probably everything else.)

    Go forward with your head held high. You obviously are an attractive candidate because this place offered you a job. There are other places that will do so — and that will negotiate so that you are fairly and appropriately compensated.

    Reply ↓
  18. No name*

    I do wonder how rare that is. Totally anecdotal, but I know more than one person that has happened to, also similar to the OP where it didn’t sound like they did it in an inappropriate way. I agree that the lesson isn’t to stop negotiating, but I do sometimes hear advice that frames negotiating as having little downside and encouraging people (especially women) to always negotiate no matter what. I think of it more as having some risk but unlikely, so maybe not worth negotiating if you’re already happy with the offer, but yes negotiate if it’s lacking or if you have other options that you’d be happy with if it falls through.

    Reply ↓
    1. AnotherOne*

      my friends who have negotiated have generally been successful.

      i want to say the only person who wasn’t was someone who was applying for jobs where companies were trying to hire someone at several steps lower than the work they actually wanted to done. so when faced with what it would actually cost to hire someone to do the work they wanted done- they tended to not want to pay. that or cost of living issues. he lived in a lcol area and they wanted him to move to a high col area but without the accompanying pay. he acknowledged if he already lived there, maybe he’d have taken the job but he didn’t.

      there was a solid year of him applying for jobs and most of the issues were pay related. he ended up going back to a previous employer.

      Reply ↓
  19. Unimatrix01*

    There is one other possibility I’ll flag, although I’m not sure how common it is outside large US-based companies. During my last job hunt, almost every role I applied to asked me to state what my desired salary was as a mandatory part of the application process. If the LW stated their desired salary and the company met it, and then they came back asking for more, they may be perceived as themselves not having been operating in good faith.

    Still not a justification for rescinding the offer altogether, but it could have contributed to a reversal if there were two folks who were essentially neck and neck.

    Reply ↓
    1. pally*

      Agree. Ideally, the employer would bring this up and ask why the candidate was now asking for more than they cited at the beginning of the hiring process.

      And, said candidate might point out that, after learning more about the job, they felt justified in asking for the higher amount. Job duties entailed more than they initially realized.

      Reply ↓
    2. learnedthehardway*

      I’m in recruitment, and I think it’s a bad practice to take what a candidate says on their application as an indication of what they would actually accept for the job. All it tells me is the MINIMUM that the person would accept. So, if I have a role that pays $100K and the person says $150K is what they are looking for, then I am confident that I can’t afford them.

      However, I don’t expect someone who says they are looking for $80K on their application to not negotiate for more – they don’t have the full picture about the role before they interview, don’t know whether they are a strong fit or not, and may not have a solid grasp on what the local market rate is for the role.

      I really push back with hiring managers who won’t negotiate. It’s just fine to negotiate all the terms and to be firm on not re-negotiating what is in the offer letter, but the hiring manager needs to have PRE-negotiated those terms and they need to be reflected accurately and completely in the paper offer. The hiring manager SHOULD be open to negotiating (to a reasonable extent, and depending on the level of the role) when a verbal offer is on the table.

      Reply ↓
      1. Parenthesis Guy*

        “I’m in recruitment, and I think it’s a bad practice to take what a candidate says on their application as an indication of what they would actually accept for the job. All it tells me is the MINIMUM that the person would accept. So, if I have a role that pays $100K and the person says $150K is what they are looking for, then I am confident that I can’t afford them.”

        That’s interesting. I always presumed that what a person wrote on their application is what they’d be ideally like to get. But they might be willing to take a job that pays less. I mean, if you put your minimum on the application, then it’s likely you get offered that and then you’ve wasted your time. I always thought that a $10 or $15k gap seems reasonable.

        I’d be curious to see why you feel like what a candidate puts on their application is the minimum they’d accept. Is that what you find in practice?

        Reply ↓
      2. Jera*

        I am too autistic for these mind games. If I wanted to know the minimum salary that they would accept, I would’ve asked them that. I want to hire people who mean what they say and say what they mean, and I’ll return the courtesy.

        Reply ↓
    3. I Count the Llamas*

      I pulled a job offer to a candidate for this exact reason (and the only time I’ve pulled one). The candidate provided their range and during the phone screen HR gave the salary band because it did not go as high. Let’s say candidate gave a range of $40-60k, and the salary band topped out at $50k.

      The candidate was okay with that and moved forward with the process. We liked them, went to the mat with HR and got an offer approved for $60k (so already 20% over budget). The candidate came back and asked for $70k. We pulled the offer and said we were too far apart on comp expectations.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lily Potter*

        Llamas, did the candidate know that your initial $60K offer was already above the top of the salary band and that they were unlikely to ever make more money in the role (outside of COLA increases, possibly?)

        If this was disclosed to the applicant during the interview, they were tone-deaf in asking for $70K starting and you were right to pull the offer. If this was NOT disclosed to the applicant, I’d say that it was the applicant that dodged a bullet!

        Reply ↓
        1. I Count the Llamas*

          Yes we had HR specifically disclose the salary band in the phone screen to point out the candidate’s range went beyond what was approved for the role and the candidate acknowledged that before deciding to proceed.

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    4. Nina from Corporate Accounts Payable.*

      Yeah, thinking back to when I accepted a role with my current employer, the recruiter asked me how much I wanted, I told him, and the offer matched my desired salary. I didn’t see a need to ask for more since it was a significant bump from my current job. I did ask for more PTO since I had more at my current employer at the time – that was shot down, but it was still a decent amount so not a deal breaker.

      A relative who owns a business prides herself on treating employees well (and the Glassdoor reviews prove it), but she gets a bit cranky when people push too hard with negotiations when offers are made. I doubt she rescinded an offer over it, though, if the other party was being reasonable. She is a huge proponent for professional women, but she feels women in particular might have been pushed too hard lately by the media and social media to negotiate hard even when offers are quite reasonable.

      Reply ↓
    5. HonorBox*

      I hate this question. I’ve not run into it myself, but have friends who have. There are too many variables to ask this on an initial application, especially if the company hasn’t posted a salary range. In your scenario, if the candidate stated their desired salary but learned that it was the very low end of the pay range during the interview process, they shouldn’t be dismissed for asking for more. If the company is fully transparent with its range and the desired salary fits into that range, then I’m more on board with what you’ve suggested.

      Reply ↓
      1. Annyon Imiss*

        I was told that I was rejected for a job interview because I put too high a salary on a job application. Ever since then, I will not put a figure, or I will put zero if forced. It is incredibly F* up that we are forced to put a figure on job applications. That goes quadruple for applications that want your graduation year. We should never have to enter these numbers.

        Reply ↓
    6. Ann O'Nemity*

      Is it fair to hold candidates to a salary range you required them to give at the very beginning of the application process – before they could ask for more details about the job and benefits package?

      Reply ↓
  20. Jennifer Juniper*

    I’m guessing the OP may be a woman, disabled, of color, etc. That could have made the OP seem less-than in the eyes of the company. “How dare OP ask for more? We’re doing a favor by hiring them in the first place! They’re not an able-bodied white man!” Of course, this bias would almost certainly be unconscious.

    Reply ↓
    1. Resentful Oreos*

      That’s a good point. And it’s gross. But it happens – “this person ought to be grateful for a job, any job! How dare they ask for more!”

      Reply ↓
  21. esquared*

    One other consideration here is whether $8k was a reasonable ask. $8k (20%) on a $40k salary is a very different ask than $8k on a $160k salary (5%). Still ridiculous to not just say the offer is firm, but I think the optics are very different to a company. I also recommend a conversation about salary vs an email to broach whether there is room to negotiate or not. “The offer is a bit lower than I expected, is there any room to negotiate or is it firm?” will quickly tell you if they are receptive or not. But that might be showing my age.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      It also stinks that OP doubled the amount that they actually wanted because they assumed they’d meet in the middle. That was a perfectly reasonable way to proceed at one point but, as here, it can also make it seem like you’re $8K apart when you’re actually only $4K apart. But I don’t I was advised to the do the same thing in past negotiations and it was assumed everyone was working out the same playbook.

      Reply ↓
    2. Parenthesis Guy*

      Thing is, $8k isn’t a large amount of money. Even if it’s a $40k salary, it’s not a huge deal in the main scheme of things. That doesn’t mean they would say yes necessarily, but it’s not like it’s a crazy ask.

      Reply ↓
  22. EA*

    May not be the case here, but I think it matters whether the employer had posted and been transparent about the salary range. We recently had a hiring process where candidates tried to negotiate for more than the posted range. It made me feel like they would not be satisfied with the salary that we could offer and would leave soon, and we did not move forward with them. I would be fine with someone asking for a higher end of the range, but not beyond it.

    Also, if the employer has many qualified candidates who would be willing to accept the offered salary (probably true in this market), you’re just not in as good a position to negotiate. It’s certinaly a bummer but realistic in the current context.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, if the job post had a range and OP was asking for $8K past the top of the range (or $4K over even), that would definitely be a concern. I’m not assuming that’s what happened though.

      Reply ↓
      1. Michelle Smith*

        I don’t think that’s true in every case. I’ve applied for jobs where I had significantly more qualifications than what was required. Hypothetically, if the job posting is for a senior individual contributor role requiring 5-7 years of experience in widget making, but I have 15 years, I’m going to see if you’d be willing to go a little higher than the posted range.

        Reply ↓
    2. Just a question*

      If a salary range is posted, no problem to negotiate within the range and slightly above. However exceeding the range would be a problem for me as an employer

      Reply ↓
  23. laura*

    I don’t know what’s up wit the New York mag link, while it’s a similar question the letter is totally different than the one posted here?

    Reply ↓
  24. Just a question*

    I re read the OP’s letter. Wouldn’t the specific salary or salary range have been discussed with the candidate prior to the employer sending out a formal offer letter?

    Reply ↓
    1. Adam*

      Not necessarily. In my industry (tech), it’s pretty common to have the first concrete salary number be in the offer letter. You might have discussed ranges beforehand, but since you might be hiring at different levels the ranges can be very wide.

      Reply ↓
      1. Just a question*

        Usually if I am telling a candidate that an offer letter is coming, for me, we have already agreed upon salary, benefits, etc.

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  25. Dr. Doll*

    I still think of that faculty candidate at Nazarene many years ago who what she thought were negotiating points but what read very much as a numbered list of unrealistic demands. The offer was rescinded and the academic blogosphere promptly lost its collective ish, with, predictably, faculty on one side and administration on the other. I myself thought that her PhD advisor had done her great disservice. I wonder where she ended up.

    OP, to be clear, you did NOT do this! Asking for a bit more money should basically be expected unless the offer literally said “We cannot go higher on salary.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Snacattack*

      I remember that pretty well! And I have some familiarity with theuniversity in question. Just FYI, I would identify as faculty rather than administrator and generally support faculty positions, I thought this case was pretty egregious, and the administration was right to say thanks but no thanks.

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  26. Omelas employee*

    I had a job offer rescinded as well and this post gave me some comfort. I tried to negotiate for higher salary since it was a step down from my previous job and did not cite a specific number. It was probably my fault because I also took a week to decide (even though they said they had no hard deadline for my decision). With no apology they said I wouldn’t be a good fit for the team and that they were rescinding the offer. Since it was a nonprofit, my guess is that they wanted someone who “wasn’t in it for the money” or something.

    Reply ↓
    1. Omelas employee*

      I think it fits with #3, despite trying to be very upbeat in my language, the timing and must have made me look unenthusiastic about the job opportunity. I did let them know that I was waiting on another interview process that I thought might offer and did not end up offering, so they probably felt like I wasn’t prioritizing them.

      Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      It doesn’t sound like you did anything terrible here, and this doesn’t sound like a good place to work. They had several red flags here:

      -they did not reach out to you when you were taking time to decide. HR usually will reach out if it’s been a few days and they need to have an answer. Instead, they gave you a disingenuous answer (“there’s no hard deadline”), then punished you for taking them at their word.
      -they claimed you “wouldn’t be a good fit” after they extended the offer. Either 1) you weren’t a good fit but they decided to extend an offer anyways, which means they are willing to take bad fits, or 2) they didn’t realize you were a bad fit until after they made the offer, which means they don’t evaluate essential components until after a decision is made, or 3) they were lying. None of these options says good things about them.
      -they didn’t offer a number. At minimum, best practice is to provide a range in the first screening call to make sure that the candidate is in your price point. I’ve had a non-profit call me, tell me the range, and ask if it still made sense to talk. I declined, and neither of us wasted our time further. If they don’t give you a range up front, they should be expecting mismatch in numbers. This is them not understanding how basic economics work.
      -If they were disappointed that you were waiting on another offer, that’s double standards. They should know that good candidates often have options. When we had a candidate who was waiting for an offer on another company, we crossed our fingers and hoped he’d go with us, not decide he wasn’t an option at all! If this soured them, they have unrealistic expectations of what people owe their employer.

      Could you have done better? Sure. You should have asked for the salary range up front, and if you have a range in mind, share that with them. If you are going to take more than a couple days to think on an offer, let them know when they can expect an answer and ask if that works for their timeline (give them an actual date).
      But they did much, much worse, and I think you might have dodged a bullet.

      Reply ↓
      1. Omelas employee*

        Thanks for the response! It feels pretty validating to know I wasn’t crazy for feeling blind sighted. Multiple friends suggested I negotiate and were also shocked to hear this happened. I firmly believe I dodged a bullet, and that I was underselling myself by taking a step down in salary (and I didn’t mention title and responsibilities too). This happened June 2024 and I now have a job that pays 80% more and is a step up in responsibilities so I think the rescinded offer was a blessing in disguise.

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  27. Lily Potter*

    My first thought that that there were two more-or-less equal finalists for the job and HR and/or Hiring Manager didn’t have a strong preference so they went with the one who’d work for less money and/or was “less hassle” to hire. Employers have the upper hand these days, I’m afraid…..2022 is now a long distant memory!

    Reply ↓
    1. HonorBox*

      But just saying “no, the offer is firm” isn’t difficult. That other candidate could have been weighing this job against another and maybe took the other offer already. That other candidate might have also tried to negotiate. So there are a lot of variables that the employer couldn’t control or account for, and they might have missed out on both.

      Reply ↓
  28. el l*

    What did discussions regarding salary look like BEFORE the formal offer?

    On one extreme, candidate might say “I want x”, employer agreed and gave x formally, and then candidate wanted to negotiate. I can understand but not fully condone employer there. (FWIW I wouldn’t pull the offer over that, but a firm “no” and a mental note about trusting them would be justified)

    On the other extreme, candidate might say “I want x + 8K”, employer might’ve agreed, and then sent formal offer of x. Opposite conclusion.

    My guess is that salary discussions were vague beforehand. More details please.

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  29. An Australian in London*

    Even in Australia and the UK (where employment contracts are routine for most professional/office jobs), I learned 20+ years ago that nothing was confirmed until a contract was signed and counter-signed. “Offers are vanity; signed contracts are reality.”

    That said, I’ve never heard of job offers being rescinded in either country… except for Big Tech with USA HQs as part of mass layoffs.

    In the UK I was recently asked on a web form what my desired salary was for a role. I checked and they did not require a numeric answer, so I wrote “competitive market rates appropriate for the duties and for the skills and experience I bring to those duties”. A recruiter called me and said it was partly because of that answer. (There was no second date.)

    Reply ↓
    1. Michelle Smith*

      Yeah we don’t really do employment contracts in the vast, vast majority of positions in the US. It’s not a common thing here so the considerations are completely different.

      Reply ↓
      1. AnotherOne*

        The number of times we’ve had to explain that to a friend who works in healthcare so does sign- and negotiate- a contract each year. (Healthcare is this odd exception in the US where some providers do sign term contracts.)

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  30. Former Retail Lifer*

    About 20 years ago, I had a job offer rescinded for asking for more money. How much, you ask? It was a retail management job and they told me in the interview that the pay was $11.75. They offered me $11.25. I politely reminded them that they told me it was $11.75 in the interview. The HR lady said “she’d check” and then promptly stopped responding to emails or voicemails. When I finally got her on the phone a few days later, she pulled the offer and rudely told me there were other people who had more experience so the job was offered to one of them.

    I did not negotiate for 20 years because of this. I just started a new job last month and negotiated for $5000 more and got it, but only because there was no mistaking the good vibes in the interview and I knew they really wanted to hire me. In such an employer’s market right now, I’d be hesitant in any other circumstance other than this exact one.

    Reply ↓
    1. COHikerGirl*

      I had a job where they told me one thing during the interview process but something lower (by like $2/hr!) on offer. I did not negotiate. I foolishly stayed for 5 years and got exactly one raise. It was definitely a red flag and I have gotten better about noticing those!

      Reply ↓
      1. ferrina*

        When they give one compensation in one interview and a different (lower) one later, these are people who don’t care about fair compensation. At best, it’s incompetence and indifference to people’s pay; at worst, it’s deliberately lying to you to pressure you into a deal you otherwise wouldn’t take. A decent HR would be mortified that they gave conflicting compensation numbers and immediately verify what the correct number is.

        Reply ↓
    2. Resentful Oreos*

      That wasn’t even a negotiation, that was “calling them on a lie.” Because if they told you the pay was $11.75 and then offered less, and their reaction was to get defensive and angry when you said “but the stated salary in the interview was $11.75” – that is, *calling them on their lie* – they got angry and stomped off.

      I know it’s 20 years ago and cold comfort now, but that company sounds shady all around if they are willing to lie about salary and then get angry when the discrepancy is pointed out, as if a job candidate should not notice such things.

      Reply ↓
  31. Ashley*

    This is becoming more common. That being said, I’ve seen it happen more when people ask for more money vs actually negotiating. For example: if you agreed to the pay of x earlier in the process and then ask for y money at the offer stage without any indicator for WHY you no longer want x, that can lead to sour reactions. I’ve seen this especially now with many salary ranges being posted on listings now and people talking salary early in the process.

    Tbf, that’s different than negotiating, which might look more like saying “now that we’ve discussed the role more, I think the market pay for a role like this given the responsibilities and my background is more in y range. Here’s some salary data attached to show what I mean. Would it be possible to increase to [maybe split the difference between x and y]? I’m still very interested in the role” blah blah.

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  32. Fluffy Fish*

    Consider it a gift. Any organization that would do that is probably one with other weirdly punitive behaviors.

    Remember you don’t really know what the job was like. It seemed great, sure. But so did the employer until they pulled that stunt. Really the only evidence you have points to it not being a good company. Take solace in that.

    Reply ↓
  33. Princess Tomato in the Salad Kingdom*

    You have dodged a bullet!! Consider yourself lucky that you didn’t take this position.

    Reply ↓
  34. RCB*

    Where I live the law now requires companies to list good faith estimates of the salary range on their job postings. Most have complied but some haven’t, so I’ve set up an anonymous email account so contact these companies to let them know they are in violation of the law, and most fix it immediately because they just weren’t aware that the law changed. However some play the most ridiculous games, “complying” by listing a range with $100,000 difference, which is not good faith AT ALL, and one took down their job postings for a week presumably to investigate the new law, apparently decided they didn’t need to comply, and re-posted them without salaries. Those I send directly to the Attorney General’s office for investigation and enforcement, I also go to anywhere they’ve posted the job online (idealist, indeed, etc.) and report the listing as not complying with the law.

    I guess my point is that the sooner we move to wage transparency laws everywhere the less this will hopefully be an issue, the games companies play are ridiculous! In the meantime I’ll be here reporting their asses until they comply, I’ve got plenty of free time and more than enough pent up political frustration that needs taken out somewhere.

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  35. HigherEdExpat*

    This happened to me once. I knew that there would be problems with the employer generally – yay illegal & unethical questions! among other issues – but I was so desperate to get out of my previous employer I was ignoring that. (And I bet OP, if they looked back, would have found things that triggered their spidey senses.) I’m honestly quite lucky that $3,000 more was enough to have them blacklist me.

    Reply ↓
  36. tina turner*

    It may sting now but you need to see this is doing you a favor.
    I’ve been at a co. that “looked” OK but I knew the sudden firings or quits that were signs of its dysfunction. Watching someone come into that from the “inside.” Some hide a lot until you’re in there.
    This seems like bad faith from them.

    Reply ↓
  37. Curmudfejnky*

    I really disagree with the comments and the thought process here. Without knowing the level of the job, it’s hard to say that this was a good move. The OP indicates they have successfully negotiated smaller raises in prior jobs, but it sounds like that might’ve been at organizations they were already working at?

    But even if that wasn’t the case, unless it was a job making six figures, an $8000 bump, even if you know you would accept half of that, is a pretty big bump to ask for once you’ve successfully talk to someone about the job and the salary. I don’t blame the company for pulling the offer – maybe blame isn’t the right word but I’m not surprised. While the OP is correct at the time to negotiate salary is before you take the job I think this should’ve been part of the discussion.

    Now, if they were surprised by the salary offer and hadn’t discussed it at all in the interview process maybe there’s some understanding that asking for more once the offer has been tendered would make sense. But I think this would’ve warranted a phone call to actually have a discussion and engage their ability and interest to change the salary number. I think what the OP did was really unprofessional, shortsighted, and unlikely to work the way they app

    Reply ↓
    1. tabloidtainted*

      It is not unprofessional to negotiate salary—even when your ask is $8k more than the offer. It is unprofessional to refuse to engage in the negotiation process, which is what the company did.

      Reply ↓
    2. LAM*

      Yeah, the LW mentioned that this would be a step up and involves a skill they studied in school, but haven’t used professionally. LW was negotiating with a weak hand and 8k might have been really out of touch considering they might not have some key experience. I wouldn’t call LW unprofessional, more that LW didn’t have as much negotiating power for the company to continue.

      It’s possible that it was between LW and someone with more experience with lacked a nice-to-have that LW had. The 8k might have made the company be more critical of LW’s lack of experience (maybe they had a track record of picking things up). Contrast this letter to the one with the husband going from residential and commercial. There’s some overlap, but there is likely a sense of taking a chance on LW. Company might feel that the other finalist is closer to market value for 8k.

      LW probably should ask if they are open for negotiating and really emphasizing what they bring. Especially if they have limited experience in an area.

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  38. Dasein9 (he/him)*

    Negotiation is certainly the norm, but I’ve been hearing enough stories of this that I may ask next time, “Is this a firm offer or are you opening negotiations?”

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    3. Just a question*

      I have read many of the comments. I am a hiring manager. When I have a conversation I tell them the salary range before we get in too deep. I usually do 3 interviews. In the 3rd and final I state clearly ‘I am offering $xxx, does that work for you.’ This is the time for negotiations. For me if a candidate agreed on a salary and the offer letter met their request, I would be a bit annoyed that they are now negotiating.

      Reply ↓
    4. Coffee Protein Drink*

      I like this. While the employer should say whether it is firm up front, this question could prevent a lot of heartache.

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    5. Tau*

      I used this in my most recent job search. The person doing the hiring was a former colleague, so we were already a little more open about things than maybe typical, and the position was at a place where the salary bands were set by union agreements and I’d been warned at the start of the process that this meant there was less flexibility involved in salary than I might be used to. I got an unofficial offer where the exact salary was still unknown, with my contact saying she was going to argue my case with HR but was pretty confident she’d be able to match the expectations I’d stated. The longer this took and the more I heard about the process, the more it seemed like any offer would be very obviously inflexible, so at some point I asked her whether the actual offer would be firm or whether there’d be any room for negotiation. She answered that it’d be firm and the negotiation part was what she was working on right now. When the salary finally got decided, it was a few notches higher in the band than people apparently typically start – and I accepted it without negotiation.

      Probably a somewhat unusual situation, but I’m glad I approached it the way I did. Just not negotiating would have left me wondering if I’d left money on the table, while trying to negotiate would probably have come off as tone-deaf in that environment. I doubt they’d have pulled the offer over it, but it would have added a sour note to the whole thing.

      Reply ↓
  39. Ann O'Nemity*

    I’m not sure we can keep calling this “rare.” I’ve personally had a job offer rescinded after trying to negotiate, and I’ve heard numerous anecdotal stories from friends and colleagues about the same thing happening. I also see similar reports from others commenters here. Additionally, in my work with college students, I hear several cases each year of this happening to them as well.

    Part of me hesitates to share this because I genuinely believe negotiating is usually in a candidate’s best interest. However, I’m starting to think that losing an offer is becoming a very real risk. At this point, it feels misleading to suggest there are no real consequences to salary negotiation.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      I think it’s a calculated risk. You could end up losing the offer, but how they respond to reasonable* negotiation gives you important information about the company. Pulling an offer from an otherwise top candidate because they made a culturally normal request is an extreme response.
      *does not apply to unreasonable negotiation. Unreasonable may include if you ask for a salary that you know is out of their stated range or is a wild increase on what they offered (especially if it’s out of sync with market value). Unreasonable may also include implying that you will turn down an offer if you don’t get X, or if you are rude in your language.

      I’ve been in situations where I had to get out fast, and I was willing to work at a dysfunctional company just to get out of where I had been. Luckily I haven’t been in that position for a long while now, and I would not want to work at a company that reacted so extremely. I’ve had enough drama in my life, thank you.

      Reply ↓
  40. Phony Genius*

    Part of the response says “Negotiating is nearly always a safe and reasonable thing to do.” Based on the comments above talking about recent similar experiences being more common, do we have to downgrade “nearly always” to “usually?”

    Reply ↓
    1. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      I wouldn’t even say “usually.” I was once offered a job during an interview (there was no written offer), and I was told what the salary would be. Knowing that it would be impossible for me to live on such a low salary, I attempted to negotiate, only to be told that “I was asking for a raise before I even started there!” The offer was quickly rescinded, because they had no wish to hire someone who wanted to get a raise before they even started there.

      I wasn’t angry at myself for attempting to negotiate, because the offered salary was much too low for me, but it did make me disagree with those people who insist that we should try to negotiate a higher salary when offered a job, even if we are happy with the offered salary, because we have nothing to lose.

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  41. VoPo*

    My company did pull an offer to someone recently for negotiating salary but it was totally different. He got the offer, asked for more money, we said “sorry, we can move on that – are you still interested?”, he said yes and signed the offer. Fast forward a few weeks (his start date was farther out as he was a college student that we were hiring after he graduated). He reaches out and says he really would like to have a higher salary. That’s when we decided there wasn’t going to be a match.

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  42. Black Dog*

    I’m an HR Director at a small(ish) non profit. We have a set budget for each position and we advertise at that amount from the start because we are willing to put all our cards on the table trying to recruit the best possible candidates and we don’t have the time or desire to play games. Our salaries are fairly competitive for our industry and market. (And we have phenomenal benefits including a crazy flexible schedule and work arrangements and a compelling mission for those who align with our values.) We are very transparent about that at every step of the process from the job posting to the formal offer. And we repeatedly confirm the candidates’ willingness to accept this salary as they advance through each step. But even given all of this transparency, I’d estimate a third of candidates attempt to negotiate. Like, did you think we were just kidding when we told you this 4 times and you agreed each time? We do our due diligence to be fair and operate in good faith, but it really makes us question whether the candidates who attempt to negotiate are doing the same. Even if they end up accepting the offer, it’s not a great foundation of trust to start off. Not saying that is what happened here at all because I don’t have enough to go on, but just wanted to provide prospective from the “other side”.

    Reply ↓
    1. EA*

      This is what my comment was getting at! (Also at a nonprofit) Everyone says they want full transparency about salary levels/ranges but then try to ask for more money at the offer stage – at a certain point, it kind of can’t go both ways.

      Reply ↓
    2. tabloidtainted*

      All companies believe their salaries are fair and competitive. If you’re not willing to negotiate you should say that when you share the salary.

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    3. Omelas employee*

      I think all you can say is, “no, we can’t” and you can’t hold their attempts against them (unless they keep trying, in which case don’t consider them). All of their friends, family, previous coworkers, and everyone on the internet are telling them to negotiate, negotiate, negotiate and they are probably thinking it’s worth a try. My for-profit working friends were shocked that my nonprofit jobs didn’t negotiate or give raises so it’s a different world that the advice is coming from. It made me wonder if they were out of touch when my nonprofit job offer was rescinded after I asked to negotiate salary (I didn’t even give a number). But maybe the nonprofit just didn’t operate like a normal workspace.

      I don’t think popping the question is operating in bad faith, it is just an expected part of the process nowadays.

      Reply ↓
  43. Burnt Out Librarian*

    I’m curious if this is a gendered thing.

    I try not to assume, but part of me is curious if LW is a woman and if that’s part of the sudden “NOPE” from this employer. After all, women are notoriously expected to never ask for raises or negotiate salaries– We’re told we “don’t do it enough,” but I’ve also found we’re punished unfairly when and if we do. Of course I’ve also been on a feminist rage tear lately, so I might just have my disillusioned professional woman goggles on at the moment.

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  44. Anon4this*

    The only time I have known this to happen was when the candidate was told more than once the salary was firm/no negotiating and then tried to negotiate for way higher salary. Hiring manager said, thanks, but we clearly aren’t on the same page since it was made clear that salary was firm at x and went with another candidate.

    I have negotiated and have had offers come back saying they can’t negotiate and honestly I have heard this more and more from people lately. I also think with the tech layoffs and federal government more companies don’t think they will have to negotiate which is unfortunate. I have seen first hand the way to get a big bump is being a new hire. Someone close to me had two huge promotions and had very small raises because they were an internal person and had to fight for the last raise as HR were only going to include the merit and COL raise (that they earned from the year prior) as their actual promotion raise. Ugh.

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    1. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      Nope. I don’t agree with you at all. One time, a job was offered to me during an interview, and I was told (only once) what the salary was. I attempted to negotiate for more money, because I couldn’t live on what was offered, and the interviewer said, “That would be giving you a raise before you even start working here!” And he promptly pulled the offer, because he did not want to hire someone who wanted a raise before starting a job. This had NOTHING to do with not being on the same page or being told more than once that the salary was firm.

      Reply ↓
  45. Ducky*

    This literally just happened to me, to the point where I was wondering if I somehow sleep-wrote in to Alison.

    After my first interview in December, just days before Christmas, they told the recruiter that day they wanted to interview me again right after the holidays. Then, after my interview in January, the recruiter called me with an offer before I’d even gotten home! I knew the interview had gone well, but I was (pleasantly) shocked, since they’d said they’d get back to me in about a week.

    Well, I told the recruiter I promised myself never to accept a job on the spot, and could they please let me know what the benefits were? So after a day the recruiter gets me a pdf listing out the benefits*. But here’s the kicker – almost all of the benefits were “discretionary”! As in, “[comapny] may make discretionary profit sharing contributions on your behalf” when describing the 401k options.

    I wrote back asking for a higher salary (the recruiter had told me the job would be $80k, they offered me $78k, I asked for $86k given that I *seemed* to be their perfect candidate) and for more clarity on a couple of the benefits.

    In response, they told the recruiter “there is no need to negotiate further, as [I] would not be happy and in their experience [I] would leave” !!!!!

    I’ve NEVER had that response to negotiation before. My family and friends all agree I dodged a bullet, but it unfortunately does mean I’m less likely to try to negotiate my next offer because I DO need a job.

    *The pdf was clearly generated outside the company; I googled some key phrases and figured out they were using ADP to handle at least some of their HR/benefits. So that’s at least two ways they were outsourcing personnel management. Another red flag, I guess.

    Reply ↓
    2. Omelas employee*

      I feel for you, something super similar happened to me too last June and I was too afraid to negotiate my salary on the next two job offers I got. In the long run this might backfire on companies because I accepted the first offer I got, no questions asked, and then when I got a better offer from another org 6 days later, I quit on the first one and accepted the second. Of course this burns the bridge with the first org, but I was so anxious that my first offer would be rescinded that I took it and then turned around and withdrew my acceptance (I do feel bad about that).

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  46. Tak Byvayet*

    I had an organization rescind an offer for me because I asked for time off for my honeymoon ~2 months after what would have been my start date. They actually had a perfectly legitimate reason for not giving me the specific days off that I’d requested, but I was trying to escape a horribly toxic job and would’ve absolutely changed the dates and ate the flight change fees to take this job! The worst part was the gross paternalism from the hiring manager who was trying to somehow frame this as best for me because they didn’t want to force me to change my honeymoon (it was already happening a couple months after the wedding, I had no particular attachment to those dates!)

    Reply ↓
  47. HappyEveryDayNow*

    Years ago, I attempted to negotiate for more time off (3 weeks instead of their standard two weeks) as I was leaving a job where I had 4 weeks off. They couldn’t do that…but offered me $5,000 salary increase instead! I took the job of course and stayed for 14 years.

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  48. Six Degrees of Separation*

    I empathize. I had the same thing happen when I tried to negotiate a start date in 3 weeks instead of a normal 2-week notice period, and they pulled the offer. I would have started in 2 weeks if they had let me, but now I just tell myself I dodged a likely inflexible workplace.

    Reply ↓
    1. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      I had a job offer pulled when I said that I wanted to give my current company two weeks notice. Yes, the company where I was interviewing knew that I was employed at the time. I was told that they needed someone to start the following day, so they pulled the job offer and said, “Too bad. Good-bye.”

      Reply ↓
  49. Lily Potter*

    The last time I was job hunting was pre-salary disclosure requirements in my state. I was hunting for both a permanent position and temporary “for now” gigs. For one of the temp gigs, it was a breath of fresh air when the job posting and the HR rep were nearly aggressive in their up-front salary offer. I’d never seen salary disclosed so bluntly. Starting from the initial job ad through the interview, it was stated very clearly that the hourly pay rate was X (not even a range!), that X was the set rate for this job, and that there would be no negotiation to go any higher. In that case, if someone were offered the gig and asked “any chance you could go higher?” I’m sure the HR person would have banged their head on the desk in frustration before rescinding the offer.

    Reply ↓
    1. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      Funny how it works only one way. I’ve applied to two jobs where the salary was clearly stated in the job posting, only to find out during the interviews that they were offering less money. When I told them when the postings said, they claimed that it was a typo. So companies don’t want to go higher, but they have no problem going lower!

      Reply ↓
  50. SunriseRN*

    I worked for a state government for 12 years. They had no flex, the salary was the salary. If you tried to negotiate they just moved on to the next person. This can certainly happen, probably more in a governmental/ union environment.

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  51. Sammi*

    I heard about this happening a LOT when I was applying for new jobs over the summer. It might have once been really far outside the norm, but I think it’s more common now than folks might realize. That said, I do think it’s often an indicator of a bullet dodged.

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  52. Betsy S.*

    Depending on the salary, asking for an additional $8k might have seemed like too big a jump. If they thought the candidate had unrealistic expectations they might have figured they’d be unhappy. I’ve asked in the past in vaguer terms, like “is there any flexability on that offer?” and gotten another 1% or 2%.

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  53. everson*

    Seems like there’s some tension between advice given to applicants about what’s “normal” and current advice being given to places trying to root bias out of their hiring processes. Our company publishes the salary for all open jobs and is clear in postings and throughout the process that we don’t negotiate because the people most likely to do so are often already privileged by the system in other ways. (Yes, sometimes we lose good candidates. But everyone internally knows our salaries are transparent and fair which is rare!) I don’t think we’d tell a candidate to walk away just for trying to negotiate, but because we’ve been clear the whole time, it does make them sound out of touch and like they’re not paying attention sometimes. This is more and more common in the non-profit world at least, where salary transparency is tied to values that are tied to mission.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      If the salary offer is firm, just tell candidates that when you make the offer!

      “The salary for this position is $X, which is our best and final offer. While we understand salary discussions are important, we want to be transparent that this figure is non-negotiable. We have structured our compensation to ensure fairness and consistency across the team.”

      “I am pleased to offer you the position with a salary of $X. Please note that this is the very top of the range, which means that there is no more room for negotiation.”

      “This position comes with a salary of $X. Because the position is grant funded, the salary is firm and non-negotiable.”

      Reply ↓
  54. SbucksAddict*

    We have pulled a job offer once when a candidate tried to negotiate but it was for #3. We were clear the amount she asked for during the interview process was at the top of our range. In fact it was a little over the salary range we’d posted in the ad. We were willing to stretch to make it work for her because she was the best candidate. We calculated with benefits she would already be about $10k a year higher than our existing employee and that was going to be a lot for our small firm.

    When she wrote and asked for even more, we felt she was going to be a “never happy” employee and would constantly push boundaries. We wrote back and told her that unfortunately we didn’t feel she would be a good fit for our firm and the offer was retracted. She wrote back that she was just asking and whatever but it left a bad enough impression that we went several weeks without anyone in that position and restarted the candidate search rather than hire her.

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  55. Not always cut n dry*

    I think that the gambit of asking for $8K when they would have been happy with $4k more is telling. I am in HR, and this seems like an indication that the candidate is not aware of market values (what’s the region, for a company size …. there is a lot that goes into market rates), or their experience level (are they at at the top of the market value, in the middle, etc).

    I think that it is not just …. “it always good to negotiate” but rather, its always good to negotiate if warranted. If the offer is a good offer, then take it. If you think that the position and your experience can ask for more, than do so.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jasmine Clark*

      There is a LOT of job search advice out there that tells people to always negotiate, and to always ask for more than what you actually expect to get, because the employer will always give you lower than what you ask for.

      I’ve seen these two pieces of advice given over and over and over again! But maybe this is bad advice?

      Reply ↓
  56. M*

    Ages ago, I interviewed at a place where the head of the org was known to be ridiculously abusive, as in, was later drummed out of the org and I think even the sector, deservedly. It was a unicorn job opportunity in that there might’ve been a dozen jobs in the whole US with that same match of my specific skills + the org’s mission which is dear to me, so I applied despite the boss’s rep. In the end I declined the offer I received, which came as a shock to them because I had passed a “test” in the interview I’d been warned about by multiple staff alums. They were going to ask me, because they asked everyone, on a scale of 1 to 10 how much did I want to work there, and if I didn’t say 10 I wouldn’t receive an offer.

    I’m saying: there are people in the world on every kind of petty, and some of them make hiring decisions.

    Reply ↓
  57. not all offers are meant to be*

    I’ve had a job offer rescinded twice.

    Once, almost exactly as it happened here, they made an offer, and when I tried to negotiate in a very normal way (salary and title mostly, but since it was part-time, I wanted to be on the same page about expectations for days/hours worked), they pulled the offer.

    Another time, after I accepted the offer, they told me I had 24 hours to go across town to get a physical and a drug test. It was simply not possible for me to do that on that particular day. I guess they had this policy of springing drug tests on folks in order to “catch” them and put them on a no-hire list.

    Both times I dodged a bullet.

    Reply ↓
  58. LAM*

    So did anyone else notice that LW mentioned that this was a step up and involved a skill they studied in school, but haven’t used professionally. I see this in archives where someone wanted to be an archivist, but the right opportunity didn’t happen when they graduated, so they took a library or records management job to pay the bills in the meantime. Similar skills, but some differences that puts LW at a disadvantage with negotiating as LW might be considered on the lower end of experience rather than if they had been in archives rather than libraries and records management. Market value doesn’t count all the years you are worked, but relevant experience. And even that can be weighted depending on job duties and mastery of skills.

    Since the company offered the job, they probably should have been more forthcoming.

    Reply ↓

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