should we get the day after the Super Bowl off, asked out on LinkedIn, and more

by Alison Green on February 5, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Should we give everyone the day after the Super Bowl off?

I live in Chiefs territory and run a small business. My colleagues have requested that I close the office the day after the Super Bowl. I’m not inclined to grant this request, as our leave policies are very generous. I think everyone has plenty of time to take off if they choose. How common are Super Bowl office closures?

Not very common. It’s certainly a nice thing if you want to do it, but it’s perfectly reasonable to expect people to use PTO if they want the day off.

Related:
is my employee lying about using sick time for the Super Bowl?

2. I was asked out on LinkedIn

I had a perfectly pleasant conversation with someone at a cafe I frequent near my workplace. We traded names and a few quips, and then my food was ready and I popped out after saying I’d see him around. I thought I heard him ask the cashier if I was single as I trotted out the door but shrugged it off, thinking it was for the best to not be too vain and I could have misheard (and I’ve never seen him before, despite the two of us apparently both being regulars). I’ve got a good rapport with the staff and figured there was no way I hadn’t mentioned my long-term partner at some point over the last two years I’ve worked in the neighborhood. Someone would tell him, right?

I proceeded to not think about it for the rest of the weekend, checked my email bright and early Monday morning, and found a very flirtatious message attached to a LinkedIn invite. That’s when I remembered I was wearing my branded work jacket that day. Heck.

Do I ignore it? Delete it? Take a hiatus from my favorite cafe and hope I don’t see him around the neighborhood? I can do all these things, I’ll just be depressed to take a hiatus from the best cappuccino in the neighborhood. I know it’s not a crime for someone to shoot their shot, but … agh! That’s my professional LinkedIn!

Yeah, it’s not great for someone to use a business networking site that way — especially if he did hunt you down via your branded work jacket. But it happens, and the social/work line on LinkedIn has been getting awfully blurry for a while.

There’s no reason you need to stop going to your favorite cafe. If he’s in any way creepy or harassing to you after this, you should feel free to inform the cafe where you’re both regulars, but otherwise you don’t need to plan on avoiding him; cross that bridge if and when you have to.

As for the message itself: if you prefer to ignore it, you can! Plenty of people don’t check their LinkedIn often or ever. That said, unless he’s given you a reason to think you would be better off not engaging, I’d figure a quick “no thanks” means that if you do run into him again, that will already be out of the way.

3. Company is trying to make low-performing coworkers job harder so they’ll quit

I was recently in a meeting with a senior manager. Although I’m not in management, the work I do requires working with them regularly and requires a certain level of confidentiality. Something that was mentioned outside of our work scope really bothered me: I had mentioned that I’d heard an employee a few levels below them was struggling. They told me that yes, that person’s manager was told to make their job difficult so they would quit. Hence why they were struggling.

This really bothered me from an ethical standpoint. And it’s actually the second time I’ve heard it, although there were some extenuating circumstances with the first person.

Is this a normal thing to do? Is this just bad management practice? I’ve managed people in the past and would not feel comfortable with this. To date this company has been great, but they do have a track record of not firing people despite years of repeated poor performance. You have to almost break the law for then to consider firing you. But this? It just feels wrong on so many levels.

Yes, it’s wrong, and it’s terrible practice. It’s terrible practice because it’s unethical and inhumane, and because it’s a fundamental dereliction of duty; managers are responsible for giving clear and actionable feedback, letting people know when they’re falling short, working to help them improve, and then letting them go if after that they’re not performing at the level needed.

It’s not at all surprising that an organization that won’t fire people would resort to this; both of those things (never firing, no matter how warranted, and mistreating someone until they leave on their own) are symptoms of management that’s incompetent and unable to appropriately exercise authority. (Also, what if the employee digs in and never leaves? Their manager will just accept bad performance forever, no matter how severe?)

You should be very, very wary of a company that operates like this.

4. Coworker is opening mail and packages addressed to me

Is it okay for a coworker to open work-related mail and packages that I have ordered and have my name on them? If it were me, I would just put the unopened package on the coworker’s desk but maybe I’m overreacting.

It depends on your company’s practices. From a legal standpoint, it’s fine; postal regulations say that mail delivered to an organization, even if addressed to a specific person, is delivered to the organization itself, and the organization can decide how to distribute it from there.

But is this person charged with opening and distributing mail for your company or are they just being nosy? If they are charged with it, you can try asking them to simply deliver your mail unopened, although it’s possible they’ve been specifically told they need to open things. On the other hand, if they’re just being nosy, you can ask them to stop.

5. The sleep shifts I depend on for income have been taken away

I have recently been covering in a different location due to the area needing a team leader. I work in care and often need to do sleep shifts (shifts where you sleep on-site so you are available in case of emergency). These sleep shifts have been a regular source of income for the past five years, and I depend on them to get by.

When my boss first approached me about covering in the new area, they made a verbal promise that I would still get my sleep shifts. But now, three months later, my sleep shifts are non-existent and I am losing wages that I desperately need.

My sleeps cover my car expenses and, as I am covering in a different area that requires me to drive there to work, I am afraid that when I get paid next I will be unable to get anywhere due to not being paid my promised sleeps. This would mean resigning, as I would not be able to travel to the area I am covering. The area I am covering in is 100 miles away from my normal place of work.

Because this is no fault of my own, would I be able to take my boss to court for lost earnings and essentially being forced out of a job due to my boss going back on their promise and making me quit due to my wages being severely cut through no fault of my own? I have a young family and this unexpected wage cut is going to severely affect me and my children.

There is another team leader who is also covering in the same area as me and is still getting there sleep shifts, so why have my sleep shifts been taken away and theirs haven’t? It feels like a personal attack, favoritism, and I am being set up to fail. I have approached my boss several times over this issue and I just get fobbed off each time.

There’s no legal cause of action unless (1) your sleep shifts were taken away for a discriminatory reason (like because of your race, gender, disability, or other protected characteristic) or as retaliation for exercising a legally protected right (like reporting harassment), or (2) you have a written employment contract promising those shifts for a specific period of time (although most U.S. workers don’t have contracts and I’m guessing you would have mentioned it if you did).

I know you said you’ve approached your boss about the issue, but have you spelled out explicitly that you literally can’t stay in the job without the sleep shifts? If not, it’s worth making that clearer (as long as it’s really true — you don’t want to say that if in reality you’d stay until you find something else).

You may also like:
{ 651 comments }

{ 651 comments… read them below }

  1. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

    How common are Super Bowl office closures?

    I’ve literally never heard of this and the request struck me as quite odd.

    I’m not a sportsball fan so maybe I’m missing something. Is there something about the Suberb Owl that it would make sense to close the next day?

    1. Person from the Resume*

      People are often up very late the night before. Lots of people in the city where the teams are from will be up late possibly extra late if their team wins and they celebrate.

      But anyone who’s a huge fan of has a big party planned can just take PTO.

      Might want to save the day off in case your teams wins and there’s a victory parade especially if the parade is near your office.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        Also for some reason the game starts far too late into the evening on a Sunday night! They should hold it on Saturday late afternoon or at the very least Sunday afternoon because many many many people go to Super Bowl parties.

        1. Mike*

          The game starts late because they don’t want it starting too early on the west coast. If you’re in CA, the game does start late afternoon. But I agree, there’s no reason it couldn’t start a couple hours earlier than it does – some regular season games start much earlier and people still watch them!

          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            It used to start in the afternoon ET and my mom used to really enjoy going shopping when everyone else was at home watching the game. Then they changed it to later in the day (she suspected it was because they wanted to be sure people had more shopping time? Doesn’t make sense for West Coasters, though) and she was disappointed to not get her uncrowded shopping day. Now she and Dad go out to dinner.

            1. Always Tired*

              I’m on the west coast and always use the superbowl for a Costco run. It’s amazing how quiet the store is if you get there after kick off.

          2. Ginger Cat Lady*

            As a west coaster, I read this comment and was so confused, because it DOES start midafternoon!

            1. Indigo a la mode*

              There are some disadvantages to being a TV viewer on the west coast, but big sporting events at reasonable times is a huge upside. Super Bowl starts at 3:30 and everyone’s home by 7. Ideal scenario on a Sunday.

          3. LL*

            I just checked and this year’s starts at 6:30pm Eastern, which seems reasonable. I think it used to start a little later in the past. Although I could see an argument for starting at 6pm or even 5:30 eastern. Then it’s 2:30 or 3 on the west coast.

      2. JSPA*

        There are also “need to stay up to make sure fireworks and porch couch fires don’t set the home on fire” areas, and “need to clear the streets to make it in.” If this is about hangovers and party cleanup, I’d maybe offer that anyone can come in an hour and a half late without taking PTO or flexing, with free donuts, bagels and coffee for those who make it in on time. But if they’re expecting impassible roads, I’d treat it as you would a winter weather problem.

        1. Miss Fire*

          Yeah if it’s about morale in the case of a win, just be forgiving if people come in a couple hours late the next day.

      3. Sans Serif*

        That’s what I was thinking. If you win, there’s going to be a parade, probably Wednesday or Thursday. You’re going to end up with people out for two days. If you really wanted to give an extra day off, give everyone a choice of the day after or the parade day.

        But this Eagles’ fan is letting you know that we’ll be the ones taking the Wednesday after the game off. :)

      4. ubotie*

        That would make more sense, in my experience. When the Phillies won the World Series, schools right on the parade route were closed (my cousin was teaching at one of those schools at the time). I can’t remember if the school district decided to just have all schools in Philly close that day too, but the logistical nightmare of “parade starts from stadium” + “schools are right near stadium” was immediately apparent.

        So if OP is working in the city and/or along the parade route (or has employees that would be majorly affected by parade traffic), then closing for a Super Bowl parade isn’t out of the ordinary.

        A Chiefs parade won’t be necessary though, lol.

        Go Birds!

        1. Sans Serif*

          FYI, in Philly they’ve already said that if there’s a parade, Phila public schools and govt offices will be closed. But not the day after the game.

        2. Falling Diphthong*

          I used to work in an office on the Boston Marathon route, and a lot of the reason to be closed was the logistics of getting in and out on that day.

          Some people did come in to watch from the windows over the route, but they had opted in for the level of hassle involved.

          “I plan to be hungover” is basically never a good reason to suggest to your boss that they close the entire business for the day, so it won’t impact your time off.

          2. JustaTech*

            My private high school is right by the finish line for the Boston Marathon and I was *pissed* that we didn’t get that day off, between it being a state holiday and the mess of the crowds and closed T stop.
            Oh the T was *ripe* in the afternoon with all those runners!

        3. froodle*

          “A Chiefs parade won’t be necessary though, lol”

          I don’t even go here* but this made me laugh

          *here being the Superb Owl fandom

      5. HB*

        ^This. If the super bowl means that much to you, you’ve already planned ahead.

        The only thing I’ll add is that Kansas City is going for a third straight Super Bowl win and I’m wondering if due to the press leadup there’s an increased feeling among Chiefs fans that this is a Big Thing when really it’s a just a neat thing that only Chiefs fans care about.

        That isn’t to say that the person should close the office for the aforementioned reasons, but I can kindof understand why the LW’s colleagues would ask about it even though it’s a weird thing to request. This is particularly true if the business has a fair number of vocal football fans and it’s contributing to a general sense of “Clearly everyone else cares about this, and therefore I should care *more*.” This is compounded by the fact that sportscasters only seem to know how to present big sporting events as Manifest Destiny even though we literally have this game every year.

        Anyway, I’m sure LW’s colleagues are typically rational people who would never ask such a thing, but are caught up in the over-hype.

        Meanwhile, my husband and I have decided to care about the Superbowl by creating foods related to the cities playing. So we’re super excited about Burnt Ends vs Cheesesteaks, but certainly won’t need the day off the next day.

        1. Fluffy*

          for burnt ends v cheese steaks I would even watch the game. although I’m committed to the puppy bowl

      6. sb51*

        And, like, if it’s a flex-schedule kind of office (rather than something where coverage is needed), maybe move any Monday morning meetings a little later/be more flexible than usual with start time, so that people can sleep in a bit, especially if you’re on East Coast time.

      7. The Dogmother*

        That’s why I was thinking that if they wanted to acknowledge the effort of coming in after a late night, the boss could bring in coffee and donuts.

    2. Teapot Connoisseuse*

      The Superb Owl becomes very grumpy due to a sore head and there’s a risk of it attacking human prey in a similar way to, well, vampires (though those are, of course, entirely imaginary and don’t ever set themselves up as, um, bartenders).

        1. froodle*

          why would you think normal human man Jackie Daytona would have any particular knowledge about vampires?

      1. Resident Catholicville, U.S.A.*

        When our local team was in the Super Bowl recently- after not having been in for decades- we closed, regardless of the outcome. The reasoning: if they won, everyone would be hung over. If they lost, everyone would be hung over. There seemed to be no win in the situation, so it was best to take off. We’re also in the Eastern time zone, so it was going to go late for us regardless and we have a non-traditional schedule, so cancelling Monday was feasible because we could still get 40 hours in that week. (No one had to take PTO.)

        One person complained about it because it messed up his week and my response was, “Well, it’s been 33 years since they were in it last- in another 33 years, we’ll both be retired and not have to deal with it again.”

    4. T’vana the Vulcan*

      It’s possible that the employees want to attend the (potential) victory parade that would take place if their team won. Also traffic. I wouldn’t find it odd if a business in either Kansas City or Philadelphia would close the next day, depending on how near they are to the parade route.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        I don’t think the victory parade is usually the very next day, but I suppose it depends on the city.

        1. Marion Ravenwood*

          My last job was for a local council in inner London. The local football (soccer) team was in the hunt to win the Premier League up until the last day of the season, which was on the Saturday, and we were planning for a potential victory parade with an open top bus that would have taken place in the early part of the following week. I would imagine it works pretty similar with US sports, especially as players have to travel for the Super Bowl, so you need to give them time to get home and maybe a day or two to recover etc.

          1. Media Monkey*

            i ended up in a central manchester hotel (work trip unconnected to the football) the night that Manchester United did the victory parade after winning the Champions league that gave them the treble. we literally couldn’t leave the hotel it was so crazy and hectic. even the hotel bar was packed!

        2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          team doesn’t even get back until the next day, then there is SOME organizing that has to be done. So yeah its usually Tuesday or Wednesday.

        3. Spacewoman Spiff*

          Yeah, in Philly our last super bowl victory parade was…maybe a week later? I don’t remember exactly. My employer (and a lot of others in the city) gave the day off work because it was clear almost no one would show up. It was fantastic.

          1. LadyVet*

            I know it was on a Friday, because I was in town from NY for a banquet, and was really upset I didn’t have time to partake in festivities (I have family ties to Philly).

          2. Veryanon*

            It was 4 days later, on February 8th. Also my nephew happened to be born on the same day, which is how I remember.

        4. ferrina*

          Nope, it’s not the next day. I have a relative that was part of the city team that was organizing the victory parade (and there is a lot of organization that goes into it).

          There were business along the parade route that opted to close for the day of the parade.

    5. Viette*

      It’s just that it’s a party, and the colleagues are expecting that if their specific local team wins, they’ll really party hard. No, it’s not normal to have the day off afterward any more than it is normal to have the day off any other large party.

      It is relevant that the LW’s local team is one of the teams in the Super Bowl. The idea is that if your local team wins, you will be happier and partying more than if you’re watching two teams not local/connected to you and one of them wins. I don’t know if that’s relatable to someone not a fan of sports or who dislikes sports beyond that people care a lot more about their local/family team than they do about the sport in general.

    6. Witch of Oz*

      In Victoria, Australia there are public holidays for: the AFL Grand Final and the Melbourne Cup (a horse race that takes about 3 minutes)!
      As a non Victorian I’m quite jealous!

      1. Elf*

        With the kicker being the AFL Grand Final public holiday is actually the day before the game! Theoretically for the parade that no one cares about.

      2. Teapot Connoisseuse*

        I still don’t understand why the Melbourne Cup is such a big deal in Aotearoa New Zealand. A 3-minute horse race in another country, more than 3 hours away by plane.

        1. I don’t want your package!*

          OP#4 – I don’t know your situation, bur I will come at this from a supply chain person in a manufacturing environment. Sometimes suppliers out my name on stuff. I don’t want this stuff delivered to me.

          Someone years ago complained that receiving open their packages addressed to them. Now everything gets delivered to you if your name is on it, no question. I have had receiving folks wheel in massive packages that if they had just opened them they would know go to the production floor. Then I open the package. Then I have to contact the floor so they can come back and pick it up. We are in separate buildings.

          I also work where I would never have something personally delivered to me, so I’m guessing we aren’t in the same boat.

          2. bamcheeks*

            Reading this was surreal– the “3 hours away by plane” and “I’m coming at this from a supply chain perspective…” totally made it sound like they were related, and then it just got weirder. :D

              1. PegS*

                Nice to see another Wendover fan! But back to the topic at hand, I wouldn’t close the office in case people party (or mourn) too hard. But I could imagine perhaps giving people a few hours off to attend a parade.

                1. Tiny Clay Insects*

                  Wendover fans! This is amazing. I’ve found my people. (Can’t wait to learn more about the next season of Jet Lag!)

                2. Timothy (TRiG)*

                  In reply to Tiny Clay Insects, above:

                  Next Jet Lag has Tom Scott on it, which I am unreasonably excited for.

        2. Delta Delta*

          I got to hold the Melbourne Cup last summer. It’s stunning and I would absolutely take time to watch!

      3. WS*

        As a Victorian, the AFL Grand Final Eve is the absolute worst, because most of the elderly people I work with forget about it, and we have to run around reminding everyone not to come in on that Friday as we will be closed! But at least nobody usually dies for the AFL, unlike the horses in the Melbourne Cup.

        1. Lab Snep*

          When I lived in Australia, back in the mumble mumbles, I remember our teacher wheeling in the TV On A Cart ™, attaching a bunch of alligator clip cables to the antenna port, and having the tail of the fake antenna out of the window.

          We watched the horse race.

          I cannot remember if his horse won, but knowing I could use alligator clips in place of an antenna was actually super helpful.

    7. RCB*

      I’m a pretty liberal boss and like to be as generous as possible with time off, and even I would struggle to approve this. The big exception to this would be if our home team was one that rarely went to the Super Bowl so this was a pretty big deal for us, then I think I’d be more in favor as I know that it’s much more likely that everyone is watching it, even non sports fans, because it’s (community) history as well.

      1. Mouse named Anon*

        I am from Cleveland and we have never been to a Superbowl. I often wonder what we would happen here if we did. Pretty sure most people would just request off the next day!

        1. Totally Minnie*

          You mean most football fans would probably take the day off.

          I’m from a city with a terrible football team that somehow managed to get into the Super Bowl one year, and I didn’t need to take days off work because I don’t care about football. There are people for whom it’s a big deal, and then there are people whose only football related concern is how to plan their weekend to avoid traffic near the arena.

          1. constant_craving*

            Eh, this isn’t strictly true.

            I am not a football fan. Don’t watch the game.

            When I lived in Pittsburgh, a Steelers win meant that schools were delayed the next morning and public bus service was essentially shut down because too many drivers called out to serve the usual bus routes. A day off would have been nice because of those reasons, even though I don’t care at all about football.

          2. Also-ADHD*

            I’m not a football fan (I like baseball but not most sports) but root for Cleveland teams in general (baseball, more specifically). If they ever went to or (hard to imagine) won a Superbowl, I’d be so floored, I’d want to watch and celebrate even though I don’t GAF about

            I’m not even from Cleveland, don’t live directly there, just fell in love with the town and their sports, and I think they deserve an exception. If Cleveland goes to the superbowl, everyone should close (unless essential). I’ll even watch the Superbowl if they go, and I barely like sports (I like baseball for the statistics).

        2. sb51*

          It’s Cleveland, if they won the victory parade would probably run all week. Possibly more than one week. (I’m also from Cleveland. It’s a Football City. Like, I live in Boston now, and the Pats winning stuff is always celebrated, but this isn’t a Football City. It’s a Baseball City. Baseball > Hockey (both NHL and College) > Basketball > Football > anything else.)

          (Also for the non-football people, the Super Bowl location isn’t dependent on the teams playing, it’s decided long in advance, unlike all the other games. So it’s basically never in the city of either team. That happened for the first time within the last few years, IIRC — I don’t follow football any more.)

          1. Greta*

            As a then-Indians fan, not knowing what day would be the day after made planning tough in 2016. I ended up calling in sick, no one would want to be around me and I just wanted to be with other Indians fans. Just three baseball fans in the office (a Rangers or Astros depending on how each is doing and a fairweather Cubs fan who couldn’t name a single player). I usually wanted to strangle the Cubs fan on a good day, so I partially called to not be in jail.

            In 2014, we could plan to be sulking after the Super Bowl and it was so nice to be able to plan ahead.

        3. Lissa Landon*

          If this ever happens, we should probably shut the whole country down, because who knows what might happen next!!

        4. SchuylerSeestra*

          Commanders fan here. I’m proud of our team, while also bummed that we got so close to making the Superbowl and fell short.

          I was here for the Caps Stanley Cup win in 2018 and Nats World Series win in 2019. Both were huge for the city, but a Commanders Superbowl win would’ve been next level in terms of celebration in my opinion.

          The Caps win and parade were on weekdays. My company at the time wasn’t closed, however we were allowed to either take the day off or leave early for the parade.

          Nats win was also a weekday, but the parade was on a Saturday.

          1. Dana*

            man, i am not even a caps fan, but we happened to be getting drinks at our favorite patio bar when they won. it was awesome, everyone in our usually quiet neighborhood was losing their minds. we left dc last year and i still miss it. what a great town.

            1. SchuylerSeestra*

              Nice! I was at home watching with my then with my roommate and upstairs neighbor. My roommate decided to head to Gallery Place after the win, while my neighbor and I decided to get drinks at the Pug since it was closer to our apt.

              It was a late night but worth it!

          2. LL*

            Also, I think both those parades were down near the National Mall, so they were away from a lot of things and in a space designed to handle a lot of people. At least I know the Caps had a rally on the Mall (maybe after the parade?) because I biked over there during my lunch break to see it.

        5. Resident Catholicville, U.S.A.*

          Cleveland would probably implode. I don’t live in Cleveland, but was seriously tempted to visit for the Perfect Season Parade in 2018. I live streamed it because it was so delightful. As a non-football fan and one that also lives in a city with a bad football team, I was quite amused and actually rooted for our team to lose every game, just so we too could have a Perfect Season parade.

      2. ferrina*

        Another unusual scenario I could see is if you work with an advertising firm that created a Superbowl commercial. A lot of hard work goes into those spots, and clients who are paying for that ad are understandably picky. I would give the day off so the team could celebrate.

        But yeah, that and having the whole city invested in their team winning are the only scenarios I could see.

      3. Sassafras*

        It’s literally a historical game for the chiefs though. If they win they will be the first team ever in the decades long history of the sport to ever win 3 super bowls in a row.

        I expect most places in KC to be closed Monday the 10th

      4. tes vitrines infinies, tes horizons dorees, je veux m'en passer*

        Yeah, my shop is small and entirely White Sox fans, but we still closed the day after the Cubs went all the way, because come on, first time in 100+ years.

    8. londonedit*

      In these unprecedented times where the England men’s football team has actually appeared in a couple of tournament finals recently, there was definitely chatter around the finals about trying to convince the Prime Minister to announce a special bank holiday for the Monday if England had won. Particularly for last year’s Euros – I don’t think it necessarily would have happened (and of course we didn’t win anyway) but there was quite a big campaign for it to happen. The men haven’t won anything since 1966, after all.

      That’s the national team, though. Plenty of companies will do things like showing big matches during tournaments if they happen to fall during the working day, and I’m sure some companies would have given people the day off if England had won a tournament, but it’s definitely not a given. And we’re a nation obsessed with football! But if your football team wins the Premier League or the Cup Final or the Champions League then you’re on your own in terms of taking a day off to celebrate. I guess luckily we tend to have enough holiday for people to do things like that if they want to. It’s rare that a town or city has just one football team, too, so even in a place like Manchester or Liverpool you couldn’t give the day off to just the Everton fans or just the United fans.

      1. Lexi Vipond*

        I think it would be quite difficult – England and Scotland (and NI, I think) have different public holidays already, of course, but do you benefit England because of something that’s 90% an accident of population numbers? Do you disrupt a lot of events in the other countries over something that’s not really connected to them? Would you do the same thing if one of the other ‘home nations’ won the rugby world cup (unlikely, I admit), or is football (or England) specially privileged?

        Of course it didn’t happen anyway! But it’s an interesting question.

        1. londonedit*

          It is! And I think all of those things are probably why the government was reluctant to go along with the whole thing. I seem to remember the most they did was some sort of statement where they said they hoped companies would consider letting staff come in late or giving them the day off if England did win, which realistically is probably the most they could have done. But there were definitely a lot of people who seemed to think it should happen automatically! Who most likely weren’t thinking about the wider impact.

          1. CTT*

            Considering that they didn’t have a bank holiday when your women’s team won the Euros in in 2022, it should have never been a discussion…

            1. londonedit*

              Well, quite, although there were huge celebrations in Trafalgar Square for that on the Monday, and I do think that plus the men being in the final in 2021 were the things that started the ball of momentum rolling in the ‘let’s have a bank holiday’ camp when the women got to the World Cup final in 2023 and the men got to the Euros final again in 2024. There were definitely campaigns for a holiday around both of those finals.

              1. Lexi Vipond*

                Yes, regardless of my general feelings, there is allowed to be a first time. ‘You didn’t do this for X before’ doesn’t usually lead to ‘therefore it is forbidden to ever do it for X *and* Y in the future’.

                And there wasn’t a holiday when the men won in 1966 either!

      2. City dweller*

        In 2012, I was at a US law firm in the City of London. We literally put a multi-billion dollar deal on hold for a few hours so people could watch the World Cup finals.

      3. lives in Latvia*

        I was working in Latvia with remote teammates in Germany during summer 2023. Latvia announced a special bank holiday for their bronze medal in ice hockey; Germans had nothing whatsoever for their silver. (And we all know that silver medal is the First Loser, so I’m pretty sure they didn’t celebrate it at all, in fact I didn’t even dare to mention it much.) But note that Germany has 45 times the population of Latvia, so a medal at a *team* sport is huge for Latvians.

        1. Phony Genius*

          This is similar to Fiji having a national holiday in 2016 after winning their first ever Olympic medal – gold in rugby (their national sport).

    9. Triplestep*

      The Superbowl (and sports fandom in general) is one of those things that has always made me feel “Other” in corporate culture. I could not care less and don’t get the appeal, but I obviously keep those thoughts to myself.

      “Questionable judgement” is a theme we see pop up in Alison’s advice pretty regularly … well it works both ways. I would question the judgement of anyone in leadership who closed an office the day after a popular sporting event for which people gather and drink. I wouldn’t think “Generous boss!”, but “Wow, so this is what you think is important enough to close the office? OK, good to know.”

      1. Landry*

        Wow, that’s a pretty judgmental take. It’s about much more than sports and drinking. The Super Bowl is one of those annual cultural moments for a lot of Americans — a time to celebrate with friends you might not see often, gather without the holiday pressure of gifts and family and just relax for a bit after the stress that comes with the end of the year and the endless hell that is January. I would admire anyone in leadership who recognizes it for what it is and wants to do a little something extra for their employees. It’s about context and reading the room, not just sports. This goes double for any companies located in a city whose team is in the game.

      2. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

        As a fellow non-sports-fan, I wouldn’t close the office (maybe a late start if that worked?) and I’d think it was silly. But I wouldn’t mind the time off, assuming the office was full-on closed and the boss didn’t say “YOU don’t care about the game, so you can cover the office for everyone.” I’d be overjoyed to avoid a Monday at work with people who are either ebulliently blathering about the game all day, or hung-over and grumpy.

      3. Sassafras*

        Weird but ok.

        There are plenty of logistical reasons to close if you are in an area impacted by the Superbowl. From over crowded public transportation, to road closures for parades, to security concerns.

        But go off about how any boss closing after the Superbowl prioritizes drinking I guess.

        1. Observer*

          There are plenty of logistical reasons to close if you are in an area impacted by the Superbowl. From over crowded public transportation, to road closures for parades, to security concerns

          Then they should say that. Because most of the time these things are apparently not *that* much of a problem.

          Which means that a closure either elevates drinking or sport (or both). And anyone who is not into that definitely has a reason to feel othered.

      4. Black Dog*

        I’m a pretty big sports fan and I feel the same way. If a company provides fair and generous discretionary leave then it should be up to employees to use it for things like this. Otherwise, you might find yourself on a slippery slope if someone else wants you to close the day after events that are important to them. Generally, when a business closes, there is the potential for lost revenue and definitely lost time. That’s not something a business owner should be expected to absorb in this kind of situation. Weather, other natural disaster? Sure. But sporting events?

      5. Miss Fire*

        It’s fine to not be into things, but the kind of sour-grapes “ooh sportsball” comments from people who are pointedly not into sports just aren’t interesting. I’d recommend Kate Wagner (McMansion Hell)’s essay about “How to get Sports-pilled” – even if you don’t enjoy watching sports, you can appreciate that sports and art are not in opposition or even separate. And it’s better to like things, or at least to be curious about why other people like things, than it is to dismiss them.

        (Besides, even if it’s the only sports you watch all year, hanging out with friends and party foods and watching the specific art form of superbowl commercials is its own activity that tons of people engage in who aren’t actually sports fans.)

      6. Broadway Duchess*

        I worked in an office for a couple of years where the day after the the Suoer Bowl and day after Thanksgiving were paid holidays. it wasn’t because they were though of as important, just that the management knew these were the two most unproductive days of the year by data. if they were going to ultimately pay people for not working, why even have them get dressed.

    10. Marion Ravenwood*

      I guess a lot of people celebrating/commiserating (depending on the outcome) and maybe needing to nurse their hangovers?

      But yeah, I’ve never heard of an office shutting down for a sporting event. I’m in the UK and the Super Bowl has only become a big thing here in the last five years or so, but I can’t ever recall anything like an office shutting down because of a team winning the Premier League or England winning a major tournament (the exception might have been if the men’s team had won the Euros). The closest I can think of would be an international tournament and offices booking out a meeting room with a big screen so staff who want to watch the match can do so, usually on the understanding that they’re using their lunch break for it. But in the situation LW1 describes, generally most people here would take the day off or work from home if possible.

    12. LostInACornfield*

      Our office actually has a different rule concerning this: the one day you can’t call in sick is the day after the Super Bowl

      1. Nola*

        I’m a paralegal and, years ago, I read something about how the day after the Super Bowl is the most frequent sick day in the US. When I get a lost wage claim and there’s a random single sick day in early February I always check to see if it’s the day after the Super Bowl and, yep, almost always is.

        1. Anon4This*

          Does your home team being in/winning the Superbowl cause you to become sick? If not, I’m not sure I’m seeing the crankypants. If you want to take off the day after submit a PTO request. That’s pretty standard!

      3. One Duck in a Row*

        This really sucks for folks who are actually sick that day, though. I’d be really p-ed off if I were told I couldn’t use a paid sick day when I was sick because of some event that IDGAF about in the first place that causes other people to lie about being sick.

        1. LostInACornfield*

          I think it was mostly in jest; if I had requested sick time, I doubt I would have been denied

          I say mostly because there are certain some folks in the office who are well known to drink and party heavily and have come to work hungover outside of the Super Bowl

      4. Mynona*

        Right. The OP should not have to close their business on Super Bowl Monday, but they should expect every worker who asked for the day off to call in sick. If the business has coverage needs, it could be crippling.

      5. LL*

        I mean, that’s pretty crappy. What if you actually are sick? It’s winter, so it’s still cold and flu season.

        1. Grimalkin*

          Yep. And there’s nothing like a social gathering… like, say, Super Bowl parties… to spread illness around. It’s entirely possible you could go to such a party and wake up the next morning legitimately sick. And while we may quibble over such risks in the time of a pandemic, it’s not the employer’s call to judge whether your sick day is legitimate or not.

    13. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      I’ve never heard of this either, but LW said they’re in the city (or at least the “territory”) of one of the teams, so I expect the subtext is “we’re all going to be going to Super Bowl parties and getting drunk the night before”.

      FWIW I have negative interest in football but I find the “sports ball” dismissal annoying. Let people like things, and use the time when everyone is watching the game to do something you enjoy.

      1. Dot*

        Agreed. Don’t yuck other people’s yum, whether that yum is football or GoT or knitting or whatever the hell else.
        Also, the LW says the request came from their colleagues, not their underlings. I am not American but I take that to mean other managers / supervisors are making the suggestion, not the staff

        1. Super Bowl OP*

          Hi Dot, Super Bowl OP here. Your assumption about my colleagues who requested the day off is incorrect. We are all “colleagues” in our offices. I just don’t happen to be a fan of words like “underlings.”

      2. Nina*

        I don’t have a problem with people liking things, but I also don’t do things like write in to Alison to ask if my boss should consider having a closure day on the day The Force Awakens came out in cinemas because the big cinema in town was doing a marathon session of all six Star Wars saga movies followed by The Force Awakens starting at the stroke of midnight (they weren’t allowed to screen it until e.g. Tuesday, so the marathon was most of Monday, and The Force Awakens started playing at 0001 on Tuesday) and a lot of the extremely nerdy employees of that business were planning to go.

        I just quietly took the day off. I would rightly expect people to be dismissive of wanting a whole business to close for an event marking the first Star Wars film released in this generation, which is not actually less important than a sporting event that happens every single year. This is what PTO is for. Take the PTO, put your clone trooper or sportsball outfit on, and have a fun day without expecting your hobby to impact the people in your workplace who are not sportsball or Star Wars fans.

        1. sb51*

          Though I know people whose tech jobs bought out a cinema for TFA and took the whole company, though the next day, not at the midnight showing. If it’s actually something most of the company would enjoy, sometimes it is the right business decision.

        2. I Have RBF*

          This.

          I DGAF about sports. If you do, plan your time off accordingly, don’t lie off sick because you overindulged. To me it’s all sportsball, and I resent people expecting me to revere the Superb Owl as some sort of significant cultural event.

          I regularly take time off to go to SF&F conventions a couple times a year. I don’t ask the office to close so I can attend a major local convention.

          Something like a new Star Wars release would be a major cultural event. But I’d still take PTO for a movie marathon.

      3. Totally Minnie*

        I feel like the whole “sportsball” thing comes from the disparity in how our society treats people who are fans of things.

        For people who are fans of things other than sports, it’s been made clear to us for most of our lives that our fandom makes us weird, and the people who aren’t in fandom are the normal ones. But sports fans get to believe that their fandom makes them normal and it’s the people who don’t share their fandom who are weird. So non-sports fans try to push back and point out that sports fandom is also kind of weird.

        2. Anon4This*

          This. All of it. There have been plenty of Sunday night events I enjoy to partake in, but never in my life would anyone ever decide it was worth giving me the day off from school/work for because it’s “popular”, so I have to take PTO. But sportsball? Well, of course! Let’s make it a public holiday!

          1. Cmdrshprd*

            “But sportsball? Well, of course! Let’s make it a public holiday!”

            Except only a few/handful of people are saying/asking for that. OP is actually pushing back against it.

            As with most “holidays” it is not unreasonable that popularity plays a role in it. If 70/80% want and/or will take the day off it may make more sense to make it an holiday/day off for the company, rather than having that many people take PTO. it is also reasonable for the company to say no.

            Compared to something else that only a small/smaller % of people like 10/20% want take off for another Sunday event.

        3. AMH*

          I’m not a sports fan, really — I used to watch football, but CTE and the NFL’s response to it was my line in the sand. I am into all sorts of other nerdy things. I agree that sportsball jokes started in that spirit but at this point it’s just mean-spirited imo (and nerdy pursuits are far more accepted and normalized in the US, although that’s not universal even here). There are plenty of jerky sports fans, don’t get me wrong — but there are plenty of jerky fans in every fandom. Let people enjoy (non-harmful to others) things in all directions.

        4. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

          YMMV based on your actual fandom, but I’d argue that the pendulum has swung pretty hard on that. I’m sure I don’t notice the way sports are marketed this way because I like them and will consume a lot of that content, but the MARVELMARVELMARVELMARVELWHYARENTYOUWATCHINGALLTHEMARVELSTUFF trend has been very noticeable over the last several years.

        5. LL*

          Except it’s only specific sports that get this type of attention and it’s really only football that gets the level of attention football gets.

          Nobody cares about women’s sports (although now they’re starting to care about women’s basketball) and nobody really cares about sports that aren’t football, basketball, and baseball (and maybe hockey, depending on where you are).

      4. LaurCha*

        Even if you don’t drink, if your home team winning is huge for football fans. It’s not just about being hungover. When the Saints won, we all piled into a couple of trucks and drove around the French Quarter high-fiving and hollering Who Dat. Who drove the trucks? The sober people. We were out very late and came home exhausted.

        I just find the snarky “oh people just want to call in hung over” comments kind of annoying because for some people, a home team win is a huge deal. You don’t have to understand it.

        1. Person from the Resume*

          But you’re assuming EVERYONE does that. Some locals won’t care at all. Some locals will be uproariously happy, but will still go home/stay home and go to bed “on time” for work the next day.

          It is a choice to stay up too late and drink or not drink. And to drive around town celebrating late into the night. If you want to do that, just take the day or the morning off as PTO.

        2. Anonny*

          I believe that “sportsball” in this context is – as the rest of the post a reference to the tv show “What we do in the Shadows” in which a group of vampires go to their neighbor’s Super Bowl party thinking it is a celebration of the Superb Owl. They are sorely disappointed when the aforementioned Owl doesn’t make an appearance.

          Not that I don’t agree with the rest of your sentiment, but I do think the vampires call it sportsball at one point.

          1. LL*

            I’m pretty sure the word sportsball originated on the internet well before What We Do in the Shadows came out.

        3. Starbuck*

          It’s still a personal thing though. Book the PTO, don’t ask to close the whole office. That’s silly.

      5. Delta Delta*

        Boston shuts down for Marathon Day. It’s also on Patriots Day, so it’s already a holiday there. Only 30,000 people run it, but many more are there to volunteer and to cheer on the runners. you don’t have to be a runner to be supportive.

        1. Claire*

          Yes but I’ve worked in Boston for 25 years, and I’ve only had one job (at a quasi-state agency) that gave us the day off for Patriot’s Day/the marathon.

        2. PatriotsDay*

          It really doesn’t unless you work for the city or a bank. There is an inclination to work at home if you don’t have Patriot’s Day off, but lots of companies do expect their employees to work that day.

        3. mlem*

          Well, also, the city becomes all but uncrossable. I forgot Marathon Monday one year in the 90s until I was trying to drive to work and realized I lived just north of the route, while my office was well south of it.

      6. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

        You’re reading an awful lot into the word “sportsball” lol. When did I say people should not enjoy it?

        This may come as a shock, but I too have been known to enjoy things.

        It just would never occur to me to suggest the boss close down the office because Popular Show I like had its finale the night before. But apparently it’s a thing for Popular Sportsball Team wins a prize.

        1. Broadway Duchess*

          I worked in an office for a couple of years where the day after the the Suoer Bowl and day after Thanksgiving were paid holidays. it wasn’t because they were though of as important, just that the management knew these were the two most unproductive days of the year by data. if they were going to ultimately pay people for not working, why even have them get dressed.

      7. LL*

        Yeah, the whole sportsball thing is really annoying. You don’t have to announce that you don’t like team sports.
        Also, I feel like a lot of people who use it really just mean the big 3 sports: football, baseball, basketball and forget that plenty of other sports exist.

        1. allathian*

          Yeah, they do. Including the slightly smaller pro team sport, NHL hockey, even if it doesn’t have quite the same huge following in the US as the big three you mentioned. Heck, I expect NCAA basketball to have a larger following than NHL.

          And some big stars in other sports have dedicated fans, although nobody can beat soccer player Cristiano Ronaldo who has 1 billion followers on social media (granted, most follow him on more than one channel, but still).

          I have to say it, but no matter how popular Star Wars and Marvel, etc. get, those fandoms remain pretty marginal when you look at the big team sports fandoms. That said, it does annoy me that some fandoms get more respect than others, and that fandoms enjoyed by women and girls generally get far less respect than men’s fandoms.

    14. darsynia*

      I assume it’s because they think people will be up late drinking and celebrating afterwards. It’s held in New Orleans so even East Coasters won’t be up as late actually watching in a way they might have if it were held in California or something.

      The closest I have seen to this is in my area (possibly the whole state of Pennsylvania; I live in the middle of Pittsburgh, not rural at all), schools are closed on the first day of deer season.

      1. Clisby*

        That was true where my Ohio-born husband grew up. (They also got off the whole week after Labor Day, because it was Fair Week, and so many kids had animals to look after at the fair.)

        Here in SC, I’ve never heard of a formal school holiday for the start of deer season, but wouldn’t be in the least surprised if parents let their kids stay home for it (assuming they were going hunting).

        1. MtnLaurel*

          Certain counties in West Virginia also have Deer Day. Mostly because the bus drivers in those counties all hunt and they call out.

          1. ferrina*

            I’ve also heard a few schools had such low attendance among students that day, that it just made more sense to close the school for the day.

            1. mlem*

              Yeah, I was literally thinking that a valid reason to close the business for the day would be if so many people booked PTO that hardly anyone was left *to* work. Not a matter of whether enough people “care” about the event, just one of effective staffing.

              But if that meant the office closed and people who really didn’t care were forced to use PTO for the closure, that wouldn’t be great, either.

            3. darsynia*

              Oh yeah I hope I didn’t look like I was implying it was frivolous or for no reason, there are definitely schools that would be sparse on those days. I find it interesting that the practice extends to Pittsburgh public schools, but more power to them–our city is full of parks and I regularly see deer in my yard, the streets, and the aforementioned parks, heh.

          2. Anxious Millennial Cowgirl*

            I went to college in WV and we got the whole week of Thanksgiving off because of hunting season. They tried to tell us that wasn’t the reason why, but we all knew. (and weren’t complaining.)

        2. WestSideStory*

          My brother, who ran a construction company in a very rural area, closed his business every year for the starting week of deer season. What the OP may be missing here is the goodwill that gets built up for this kind of small perk; employees do feel “seen” and it comes back to the company in a good way.
          N.B. the following Monday in U.S. is President’s Day, a national holiday where most offices and businesses close so it’s not like the wheels of commerce are going to stop for a closed business day.
          Even if it’s dining or retail, if your business can’t hack an off day without damage, how will it handle, say, an emergency like a hurricane or fire?

        3. Selina Luna*

          We get the day off for a local fair here, but that’s for logistical reasons, not hangover reasons: more than half of the school district’s workforce lives in the town where the fair is held, and during the fair, traveling through a town that is less than a mile long takes a minimum of 90 minutes. And there are no “side roads that the locals know about” to escape this congestion, either.

      2. Over Analyst*

        It’s still on at 6:30 eastern time though. I’m on the east coast and when my team was in the Super Bowl I’d take the next day off because of how early I had to get up to go to work (wouldn’t even be hungover, just getting home after a party that goes til 11 PM is a late night for me).
        I guess for OP 1: CAN people actually take the time off? My job allows me to basically be as flexible as I want as long as I work 40 hours and/or put in time off, but I don’t typically have quick turn assignments so I can parse out my work. If my sister wanted to take time off though, one of the three other people that works at her store would also have to be available, so big time off days are hard there.

      3. Anonymoose*

        South West Nova Scotia (Canada) has Dumping Day, related to fishing lobster and dumping the traps into the waters. It happens on the day that the season opens for them in late November. Kids sometimes get time off school, although probably only the morning.

      4. Also-ADHD*

        Where it’s held doesn’t impact timing, does it? I thought it was always on at basically the same time, and it always seems to go to around midnight?

        1. Also-ADHD*

          Midnight on EST I meant, but I realize now St. Louis is CST. So 11ish? (Was trying to go for question-asker’s TZ.)

          1. darsynia*

            I was just thinking that if it were held at a regular evening fooball game time in California, that would be 6:30, maybe 7 PM, which would translate to an almost 10 PM start. Given how long the games are, half-time at nearly midnight would be pretty wild, especially considering how many people plan to watch. There’s a reason it was notable that the last episode of M*A*S*H had 106 million viewers and wasn’t topped for quite a while until the population of the country upped enough that superbowl watching finally eclipsed it!

      5. 1-800-BrownCow*

        Not quite the whole state of PA. I grew up in rural NWPA and yes, the first day of deer season was a school holiday. A lot of the teachers and students were hunters, so it made sense for us. But after college I moved to just outside of Philly and people there looked at me like I had 2 heads when I told them about getting the first day of deer hunting season off. They didn’t know when deer hunting season was.

        I then moved to one of the counties surrounding Philly where I lived for 12 years and eventually had a school-aged child. Still no first day of deer season off.

        I’m now in south central PA, somewhat rural, and my kids get that Monday off. Which I find funny since I only know a handful of people locally who hunt and deer season now starts on Saturday in PA, not Monday, yet we still get Monday off. It seems to be more of tradition and an extension of Thanksgiving break rather than for the hunters. My kids’ school calendar states ‘Thanksgiving Break’ for that Monday. But when I was growing up, our school calendar specifically stated ‘First Day of Deer Season’ for the reason we were closed.

        1. GuernseyCow*

          My dad was a principal in SE PA and parents taking students out for deer hunting drove him bonkers. He got a lot of pressure to consider it an excused absence so they could take more days off (counts differently toward attendance requirements) but he refused (it honestly did not meet the definition). I went to school at the next school district over and I’d estimate about 1/3 of my elementary school classmates took at least some time out of school for deer season.

          Personally, I’m more inclined to be sympathetic to Tom Lehrer’s type of hunting season.

    15. Mary Lynne Schuster*

      I live in Cincinnati, Ohio. I worked for a nonprofit that every year we would have a big grill out picnic on baseball‘s opening day, and if you had tickets to the game, you got a paid half a day off. I think the Reds may be were the first baseball team and we had the first opening day? Anyway, it was a fun perk But unusual.

      1. MCT*

        For many years, the first game of Major League Baseball’s opening day was always in Cincinnati. There would typically be multiple games going on that day, but the one in Cincinnati would start earlier than the others. This tradition began in recognition of Cincinnati being the birthplace of professional baseball (the first professional team on record, back in the 19th century, was based there). I don’t think this practice is followed anymore, although looking at Wikipedia, it sounds like MLB still schedules the Reds to play at home on opening day every year (even if it isn’t literally THE first game) – probably the only team to get that treatment – and opening day is still a big event locally.

    16. Polaris*

      I’ve not heard of this….but I’m in the middle geographically of a fandom that suddenly DOESN’T suck in the midst of a literal lifetime of mediocre suck-ti-tude. There WAS indeed talk of an office closure IF our team had gone to the SB.

      Granted, I’m in an industry that basically closes down for “networking” for MLB opening day locally too. So I’m sure that industry definitely plays a part in this too.

      1. Christmas Carol*

        Yeah, I’m in LionLand too.
        Depending on the way the calendar falls that year, our company often closes the Monday after the game. The logic is: So many people in the plant call off sick, there aren’t enough workers to run production anyway, so just burn that day as the floating holiday. Then of course, it’s a little hard to strongarm the office staff to work if manufacturing gets a paid day off, so shut the whole place down.

    17. Chauncy Gardener*

      I think it’s a great idea, personally. I’m in Patriots country and I tried to talk the CEO of the company I was at into it every time we were in the Super Bowl. No go each time. Guess who didn’t show up Every.Single.Day.After.The.Super.Bowl? Wouldn’t close for the parade either.

    18. The Peach*

      Back when I lived in New Orleans, I once rode a parade float on Mardi Gras day, wearing a ridiculous outfit, throwing beads to children, and drinking a whoooooooole lot of margaritas from the jugs in our float cooler. All of this is very much par for the course. My office was closed on Mardi Gras day–also, in New Orleans, extremely common–but open Ash Wednesday. When I slunk in that Wednesday morning, head throbbing, my boss literally stopped in his tracks. “What are you doing here? Weren’t you on a float yesterday?” I confirmed that I had been. She said, “So aren’t you hung over?” I admitted that I was. She laughed and said, “Go home. We never expected to see you today!”

      In other words, different places have their own vibes, priorities, and expectations. If you’re in KC, particularly if your business is very local and/or customer-facing, and you suspect a high level of partying associated with the game will lead to a slow day to follow, it might make sense to call a one-day holiday.

    19. Don’tPayMeLessBecauseOfBodyParts*

      Center City Philly – including many businesses like Comcast HQ – was completely shut down in 2018 for the Super Bowl parade. You couldn’t get to work even if you tried, it was (joyous) madness. It was a huge deal to everybody who lived here and wouldn’t even be on the radar for anybody who doesn’t.

      Life is about so much more than work. I’ve always found being generous and acknowledging special moments gets employees to “pay it back” tenfold in morale, good will and productivity.

    20. Ally McBeal*

      In this specific case, the Chiefs might become the first team to ever win the SB three years in a row. So if the work were non-critical I might say “if the Chiefs win, you can come in late, just be in the office by noon and make sure you get your 40 hours in this week” (or “and take the hit to your pay” for hourly workers) to allow people to properly celebrate the milestone. And of course keep the office open in case there are any employees who don’t care at all about football and want to keep a regular schedule.

      1. Rayray*

        I would like this approach. Give some flexibility if the work isn’t super time sensitive and you won’t have any customers or clients relying on you.

    21. Dontbeadork*

      My former school district started doing this maybe a decade ago, instead of giving us Columbus/Indigenous Peoples’ Day off.

    22. Elevator Elevator*

      I’m in New England and I’ve never had a day off because of a Patriots Super Bowl, or even really thought of it as a thing that could happen. In 2018 (Patriots/Eagles) we actually had our annual all-company meeting the day after the game, I assume because no one else wanted to host an event that day and the hotel ballroom was cheaper.

    23. Gray Lady*

      I could see it if it was a very small business and the owner was a big sports fan and did it on their own initiative, but that would be more of a personal quirk, not a normal expectation. I couldn’t imagine just asking a boss to close the business for it.

    25. Change the Name*

      I will say, I used to work in the school system in Chiefs territory and the schools usually close on Monday if the Chiefs win, so that might factor in. For those not in the know: KC does a parade on Monday if they win and it’s a pretty big deal. They take their football VERY seriously. (I was often accosted for not wearing red on game days, etc)

    26. toolegittoresign*

      I live in Boston, and the only time I have seen it happen is if so many people request it as a PTO day that it wouldn’t make sense to open the office. It was more likely to tell everyone to work remotely the day of the victory parade because that would be the day where getting to the office was a nightmare due to all the people coming into the city and road closures.

    27. fhqwhgads*

      The only context I’ve heard of this is:
      If it is expected their will be riots and the office is in a place such that they’re worried about people, like, throwing things through the windows and whatnot
      And even then, that sort of bad behavior usually happens right after the game, therefore, the middle of the night. So the office might close the day after due to cleanup and damage and whatnot, but wouldn’t necessarily plan on it in advance.

    28. Nomic*

      If you’re in the same city as the Chiefs, then it would be a Much Bigger Deal, and I could see this. If they win there could possibly be rioting (SORRY SORRY, sports fans don’t riot, they rambunctiously celebrate!) in KS.

      So to OP1, …. maybe.

    29. Oh brother*

      This passive aggressive twee-ness is eye rolling. You’re a grown adult, presumably you understand the appeal of large-scale events that interest people? Presumably you’ve seen a news report about celebrations after a game, even if you’d not participate?

      Also, my eyes aren’t strong enough for the eyeroll “sportsball” deserves. Where did you get the idea that this is somehow less obnoxious than just saying “football?”

      1. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

        Interesting how shocked people are that those unfamiliar with the fandom hadn’t heard of closing the office for it. And how a joking term like “sportsball” touches a nerve lol.

    31. Momma Bear*

      I think a generous approval for PTO requests would be sufficient. If they have the leave, they can use it. If not, then see you Monday.

      People might be up late, is probably the reason for the request. IMO, just plan accordingly. That’s on you, not the company.

    32. higheredalumna*

      In Chicago, we’re more inclined to give the day of the parade off, as the traffic is terrible, public transportation use goes through the roof, and it is a family event. Noted that we can go many years between needing such parades though!

    33. Notasecurityguard*

      eagles fan here: we’ve closed the day after under the assumption that a critical mass of our staff and clients won’t be in (we serve an exclusively local population) and that if you’re only gonna have 30% of the staff and 20% of the clients it’s not worth it to be open

    34. Underrated Pear*

      Let me start by saying that no, I would not expect a business to close the day after the Super Bowl; that’s unreasonable. But I feel like many commenters in this thread are not only missing the point, but some perhaps deliberately missing the point.

      Again, while I’m not in favor of it, the logic behind suggesting the day off is not “we should close because this is something that I like.” The logic is “if the majority of our workers will be taking the day off, then it might make sense for us to just give everyone the day off.” It’s not the same as a movie fandom, etc, because the whole point is that the majority of the local community is celebrating TOGETHER.

      Which brings up the related point – and I’m not even a die-hard sports fan – but people who diss sports fandoms sometimes seem to be deliberately ignoring the larger appeal, which is that humans want community and naturally group into “tribes.” It’s WHY events like Comic Con are so popular. And I love that, with air travel and internet and whatnot, lots more people can be with “their people!” The difference, of course, is that sports teams are grouped geographically, so the fandom is all concentrated in one place (and therefore, when big events are happening, it causes widespread disruption because a critical mass of people are participating).

    35. Ben the PM*

      I live in Philly and while I don’t know of any businesses totally shutting down the next day, I do know of some that are officially opening late the next day, or at least setting a broad understanding that they expect limited availability as lots of folks may take the day off, be tired, be hung over, etc. It’s basically “acknowledging the reality that a large chunk of the workforce will be involved.”

    36. Sara K*

      I live in a city that has an actual public holiday on the Friday before the Saturday big final game of football for the season. Of course it’s a different flavour of football here. We also have a public holiday for a horse race. Sport is a thing here.

  2. Ninersfsn*

    Regarding OP 1- there’s a big difference between Giving your company the day off after the Super Bowl just because it’s the Super Bowl, and giving your company The day off because one of your cities teams is playing in the Super Bowl. Here in San Francisco the times that the Niners went to the Super Bowl. I don’t know if any place that insisted people come into work on Monday. OK probably banks, etc. that couldn’t close, but when your team is in the Super Bowl, it’s a bigger deal than just the fact that it’s happening.

    1. MK*

      So thr city semi-closes down? Also, there is a difference between not insisting that people come to work and closing down the workplace. Are you sure the businesses that are closed on that day actually gave workers an extra day off instead of just having the employees take PTO?

      1. Alz*

        Yeah, this. If you were feeling generous then announcing that everyone who wants it can take leave would be nice. In my job we don’t need coverage as such but my immediate team still tries to coordinate leave so there is someone around. Obviously depends on the business though- if there is a critical mass of people required to stay open then that wouldn’t work.

        And, as a non-sport fan I would be put out if I had to take a leave day at short notice just because everyone else was out if it is a bonus then yay but all my leave is earmarked for trips and family things

        1. Totally Minnie*

          It sounds to me like the LW’s staff are asking for the business to be closed with pay, because they don’t want to use their vacation days.

            1. doreen*

              When someone says ” run a small business” , it’s not always clear if they mean they own the small business or if they are the manager of the small business. But either way, the people asking the LW to close the office aren’t exactly peers.

              They might, however, not be asking for an extra paid day off – there are lots of jobs where not everyone can take PTO for the day after the Superbowl or Black Friday or the eclipse or anything else if the business is open. But then you run into people who don’t want to be forced to take PTO on a day they didn’t choose.

              1. Librarian of Things*

                I am the director of a small library. There are definitely times I refer to people who work here as colleagues or coworkers and not my staff. They ARE my staff, I manage them, they work for me, but at the same time, we’re so small that there are some situations where I feel pretentious (maybe? not sure that’s the best description of my emotion) emphasizing that hierarchy in ordinary conversation. The work is more often collaborative than it is hierarchical in a small team. If I’m talking to, say, City Council about what my staff can accomplish, they’re my staff; if I’m talking with friends about a funny interaction at work, they’re coworkers.

                So, I could see that a person who “runs a small business” might talk about their staff, employees, or team in client interactions, but might also talk about colleagues in a social conversation or something casual like a question about football holidays.

    2. dz*

      I’ve had many jobs in Boston and never got the day after the Superbowl off. Maybe because the Pats were in it so often ;)

      1. I root for Baltimore, though*

        Same for Pittsburgh! They get the job done and keep rolling–they are the OG of winning the Super Bowl.

        1. darsynia*

          Came here to say this, as a Pittsburgher I don’t recall days off like that. I was pregnant for the 2009 Steelers win (we won the Stanley Cup that year too, the Pirates… also existed), and I could hear periodic shouting and fireworks going off late into the night, but work was as usual the next day. (I mention the pregnancy because it was harder to sleep anyway, plus it’s fun that she was born in such an auspicious year :P )

        2. constant_craving*

          This was not my experience when I lived in Pittsburgh. Schools were delayed the next morning, because not enough bus drivers turned up to work. And as someone who relied on public transit, it was just a mess- most lines not running, again because not enough staff turned up after the win.

      2. Eldritch Office Worker*

        I know you’re being funny but actually that might be part of the reason. The first time the Red Sox won the world series this century there were definitely places that closed! The Patriots in the Superbowl was pretty unremarkable. So there could be some cultural differences between cities and how they’re currently feeling about the game that change the answer to the question a little.

    3. Amy*

      This is the 4th time in 5 years the Chiefs are going to the Super Bowl so it’s probably not as big a deal as it might have been the first time.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Haha right! This isn’t the Cubs winning the World Series after being shut out for 108 years.

    4. GammaGirl1908*

      I actually have heard of elementary and high schools closing the day after the Super Bowl when a local team was playing, knowing that students were up late, or colleges closing the day after their college was in a big game, knowing that students were out partying.

      But I do think this is a little bit different. If you know people have PTO they can use, they can still take the day off if they want to; you’re not stopping them. I would just let employees know that if they want to take PTO for the next day, you’ll understand.

      1. Bunch Harmon*

        I’m in Eagles territory, and there are already schools saying they’ll have a 2 hour delay if the Eagles win. And schools and many businesses will be closed for a parade if they win.

        1. Endless TBR Pile*

          Came here to say this!

          My daughter’s school has already announced a delay, regardless of the outcome of the game. We’re already planning on how to handle jobs in the city in the aftermath lol.

          It’s absolutely not a necessity, but maybe OP could consider a delayed opening as a good will gesture?

          Go Birds!

          1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

            2 hour delay seems like a good compromise. If you really need more than that, you can take the day off.

            Random: does anyone know why the Super Bowl has to be on a Sunday? I know Sunday is usually the NFL’s game day, but since this has really just become a nationwide party – more so in the cities whose teams are playing, but also throughout the US – is there a reason it can’t be Saturday night?

      2. Strive to Excel*

        The one time in recent memory the Seahawks won the Super Bowl it would have been more productive to close schools for a day. Nothing got done. As a non-sportsball-loving teenager I was pretty miffed that all my classes basically got delayed a day because half the students and a third of the teachers were “sick”. I’d rather have gotten to stay home.

    5. Triplestep*

      I wonder if sports enthusiasts even realize that it’s possible to have a local team in the Superbowl and STILL not care about it at all? In my experience, sports fans are the worst at recognizing that their “normal” is not everyone’s normal.

      Off to go Google when the Superbowl is so I can plan my weekend food shopping trip around it. That’s the only reason I need to know.

      2. CityMouse*

        I’m going to be honest that I forgot the superbowl was this weekend until I saw this post. (I live in the US, my neighbors are Commanders fans).

        1. ecnaseener*

          You’re doing better than me if you knew and then forgot. This is the first I’m hearing of it!

      3. Just another commenter*

        Google thinks I care about the Chiefs far more than I actually do, because I work at the grocery store. If I look up game time, it’s to know what the traffic patterns will look like that day, not because I’m planning to watch the game.

        Tip: if you are the kind of person who plans like that, you’re probably thinking, well, if the game starts at 7, things will have slowed down at the store by like 5, right? Everyone will get their stuff and go home and eat dinner first or get party stuff ready? In my experience, no. It will stay busy until right around 7. Football games go 3 hours or more, so I guess (maybe, depending on your fanaticism level) you can miss the whole first quarter and still feel like you watched the game. Or maybe there are that many people who ran out of beer already? Or maybe they’re just watching the game without doing anything special, so they are just doing their normal shopping in time to get home and watch? I don’t know, but it doesn’t slow down that early.

        1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

          One of the local grocery chains have TV’s in the major parts of the store (produce, deli, by the checkout counter) that stream the Packer’s games. This way if someone has to run to the store mid game they can keep an eye on the score. There’s been times I’ve gone to the store and there will be 3-5 people standing in the middle of the isle watching the game, they are like transfixed. I feel like saying “Excuse me, I just want to get my apples can you MOVE!”
          I couldn’t imagine what it would be like with the superbowl.

          1. Librarian of Things*

            I lived near Columbus, Ohio, for a while and the absolutely perfect time to go to the store during the Michigan game was the second quarter. Place was deserted after everyone got their snacks before the game but before they had to run out for more at halftime.

      4. MsM*

        Believe me, it is not possible to live in Philly and not care that the Eagles are in the Super Bowl. You may not care about the outcome, but you cannot ignore it.

        1. JTP*

          Born and raised in Philly, live in the ‘burbs now. Do not care about football, do not care about the Eagles, do not care about the outcome.

          It was annoying as hell when they won in 2018, as I lived six blocks off the parade route at the time. The celebrations after the game woke up my toddler. On parade day, toddler’s daycare closed (near the parade route) but our works did not and we couldn’t get there anyway (work locations were not near the parade route so did not close, and neither were amenable to working at home at the time).

          1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

            I lived there for 30 years and never cared about it. I would watch Eagles Super Bowl games (and Phillies World Series games) with friends, but spent most of the time chatting with the other indifferent folks in the room and enjoying some food and beverages that normally aren’t on my diet. :-)

      5. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

        This is weirdly combative. What issues have you faced from sports fans out in the world?

        1. Triplestep*

          I am guessing you’re a sports fan and/or you have never been “othered” at work (not just by colleagues but by your management). That would explain why you think that simple observation is “combative”.

          1. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

            I am a sports fan and I work in an office where absolutely no one cares about sports. I can’t remember the last time I had a sports-related conversation here. I’ve never felt “othered” by it at all – people like what they like.

            What are these people doing to “other” you?

            1. Irish Teacher.*

              I don’t know about Triplestep but there are definitely workplaces where following sport is a bonding thing and can lead to those who are not fans getting less interaction with management or management giving a wink to sports fans being “sick” the day after a match when the same manager would come down hard on somebody who was out “sick” the day after their favourite singer’s concert, because the latter isn’t a valid reason to miss work but a match is (because the manager has also missed work because of matches).

              Or it can even just be most of the conversation in the workplace being about sports. Which is fair enough, in one sense. People are free to talk about what interests them. But if you are not interested in something and most of the conversation in the office is about it, you might well feel a bit left out. Sitting through a lunchbreak where everybody else is involved in a conversation you don’t even fully understand could certainly feel othering.

              In my experience, these workplaces can also have a sexist element. While plenty of women follow sport and some women do join in, there can be a sort of macho, “all boys together watching the game” typed tone to these discussions that can make it hard for women to break in even if they are sports fans.

              1. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

                I could see that, and it’s funny you mention it because I’m the only man on a team of about 15 (larger org is much more balanced). Yesterday, a bunch of us were eating lunch together and the discussion turned to a bracelet that one of my coworkers had on, how they’re semi-permanently attached and that’s a thing at this jeweler, other local jewelers that they loved supporting, etc. My own jewelry is limited to my wedding ring, but it was an interesting conversation and I didn’t feel “othered” by it at all.

                Granted, I’m in the dominant group in society and therefore not nearly as attuned to that sort of thing in my own life. And these women are all phenomenal people with whom I have great relationships, which makes me much more inclined to extend grace on stuff like this. (Not that grace was at all necessary in this case, but it’s what we’re talking about here.) But it would never occur to me that I’m being “othered” when they talk about, to be reductive and flip, girl stuff. (It also helps me get a different perspective on issues I might have with my wife, and in this particular case helped me get a bunch of gift ideas.) They weren’t talking about jewelry AT me.

        2. Anon4This*

          I mean, I had slurs and vitriol flung at me (including having the bird flipped at me) when I was 13 because I wore a red shirt when LSU was playing a team whose colors included red…

    6. Grits McGee*

      When I worked for Louisiana State University, we all got the say off after the football team won the SEC championship, but LSU at this point is pretty much a sports franchise that offers college classes on the side…

    7. Magpie*

      I’m in KC and even in 2020, when the Chiefs won for the first time in decades, businesses didn’t shut down the day after the Super Bowl. I was up very late because people in my neighborhood were shooting off fireworks well past midnight and I still made it into the office by 8 AM the next morning. Companies are much more likely to shut down for the victory parade a few days after the Super Bowl.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        There’s a level of disruption that the rest of us are just supposed to accept from sports fans, and it doesn’t sit right with me. There are people setting of firework explosions that keep their neighbors from sleeping, there’s news footage of sports-based riots, and everyone just sort of accepts that this is a thing sports fans are going to do. No other fandom could get away with stuff like flipping a car because their favorite show had a really amazing season finale.

        1. mango chiffon*

          I went to a college that was known for basketball, and when the team won, people would go to the main road and things would be set on fire or just general chaos. This is always seen as fun, but anything else would be considered rioting. Definitely a double standard

    8. AlsoADHD*

      Did places actually close, or just let people take PTO? In the letter, it sounds like LW will approve PTO, but I’m not sure they’ve had so many requests they must close to do so. That was just an extra holiday suggestion (nothing wrong with doing it as an extra if a company wants but I can’t imagine it’s that common even in the city the team is from).

    9. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      So glad I am self-employed and have no employees. I always schedule the day after the Super Bowl as off. I may work a bit — but not trials or meetings.

    10. DE*

      What does everyone do on their day off if everything is closed? I suspect you’re overestimating just how many businesses closed. Anything customer facing probably stayed open. They’d be turning away too much revenue.

    12. 1-800-BrownCow*

      But not everyone is a sports fan or a Super Bowl watcher or a fan of the local team. I have zero interest in either team this year, despite living in Eagles territory, as I’m a transplant to the area and don’t care for the Eagles. And if my team is not playing, then I don’t watch the SB as I’m just a casual football fan. And I work with plenty of other people who feel the same way.

      If my company shuts down for something that is outside our yearly holiday schedule, then we have to either use PTO time OR we have to make up the hours during the week. As a busy mom of 3, I really don’t want to do either as I value my PTO and I don’t flexibility to easily make up my hours the remainder of the week, so I, and several others I work with, would be ticked if we shut down just because the local sports team is in the SB.

      Thankfully, I have no worries this would happen. I work for a European owned manufacturing company, and they would not give the okay for our GM to shut down tomorrow as we have product to ship. Additionally, our GM is a Falcons fan, so he’s definitely not interested in shutting down for the Eagles and Chiefs.

      On a side note, my spouse works very close to Philly and he’s working on Sunday during the super bowl. No shutdown at his job just because the Eagles are playing.

    13. HRMgrinKC*

      HR Manager in the KC Area chiming in –
      We give a 2 hours paid time late start on Monday… if there is a victory parade/rally, then that is PTO. The staff appreciates it and realistically, a lot of people would be dragging in late anyways, so might as well plan for it.

    14. I Have RBF*

      I live in the SF Bay Area. In all of my years working here, no company has ever closed down for the Monday after the Super Bowl. Office people were expected to show up. Plus, more time is actually lost in tech companies for the World Cup.

  3. Oniya*

    LW1 – I can assure you that certain businesses will not only *not* close the day after the Superb Owl, but will reopen *right after the game* if the local team wins. My place of business has been announcing this practice to all our customers, and I expect there are outlets in your area doing the same.

    All depends on what industry you’re in.

    1. Sans Serif*

      All the places that sell sports branded jerseys, hoodies, etc, will open within a few hours after the game, if their local team wins – because they get an immediate shipment of items with “Super Bowl Champions” on them.

      1. Polaris*

        Yep. Ages ago, after the local NHL team won the Stanley Cup after ages of not doing so, the opening shift at the retail department store I worked at was called by the store manager asking for volunteers to arrive early for shipments/distribution/staging. Being a teenager and it being summer, and that they were offering 1.5x for three hours before my opening shift? Sign me up.

      2. Juicebox Hero*

        I used to always turn on QVC the second a major sports championship ended, because they’d cut into their regular programming with winning team branded merch. I know they have samples for both teams made up ahead of time so they can just grab the winner and go, but I always wondered what happened to the losing team’s samples.

        1. Just another commenter*

          Not just samples. A lot of Kansas City 3x Super Bowl Champions shirts are almost certainly already made, and possibly already received at the store. Even if we don’t get them until first thing Monday morning, I’m sure they weren’t made overnight Sunday night. Logistically it would take the night just to distribute them from local warehousing. I assume if KC doesn’t win, those are all destroyed. I suppose they only make ahead what they think they can sell in the first couple of days, but that’s a lot.

        2. JTP*

          Not just samples.

          I thought it was widely known that merch for the losing team ends up overseas, usually in poor communities in African and South American countries (along with donated clothing in those ubiquitous parking lot bins that is unable to be resold in thrift stores in the US). They end up disrupting or even destroying local industries and jobs, like textile manufacturing and local clothing designers.

        3. 1-800-BrownCow*

          It’s all made ahead of time. Well, more is probably made after as well. But stores will be stocking and selling items immediately, so most merch is being manufactured as soon as it’s known any team is SB bound.

          As for the losing team. That stuff is sent overseas, mostly to 3rd World Countries or other impoverished areas. I know an overseas missionary that has taken pics of Championship shirts the local people are wearing of the losing sports teams for things like Super Bowl, World Series, etc.

    2. ferrina*

      All depends on what industry you’re in.

      Yep, this really matters. If you are a furniture retailer, sure, it probably doesn’t matter if you close for the day. If you work at a place where people might spend money for celebrating/mourning the loss, then you’ll want to be open. It also depends on your profit margins and anticipated staffing levels- will you have so many staff calling out that it makes sense to close anyways? what is the expected lost profit from closing that day, and how will it impact the business? What are other local businesses planning on doing?
      This would all impact my decision. (personally, my work station will be blaring soundbites from the Kendrick concert all Monday)

  4. Jillian with a J dammit*

    #4 Early in my career, one of my assigned tasks was to open, sort, and distribute mail to about 60 people. (I handled accounts payable and all the bills were mine to deal with). By “open”, they really meant open everything – even if marked personal or confidential, since most of those were for HR from people seeking employment. Most of the time I could just slit open the envelope without looking at the contents. But EVERY DAMNED DAY, I had more than one person yell at me for opening mail addressed to them. All I could do was refer them to the CEO who gave me the instruction.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Not the original commenter, but back in the day when I was office junior, it was far more efficient to just open all of the post and distribute based on contents, rather than read the envelopes. This felt strange at first, but it’s how I was taught to do it and I quickly saw the sense in it. A lot of office post was addressed to the wrong person, because people had put on the names of predecessors who had left, or who were still with us, but had moved into a different role. Sometimes responsibility for x type of mail has shifted from x team to y team, without the sender becoming aware. Occasionally you would see a personal item (hard to explain, or even remember how I would know, but it was usually pretty obvious when an item was personal rather than work related), and those were typically the only items I wouldn’t open before sorting.

        1. I Have RBF*

          Plus at some companies all incoming paper mail gets stamped with “Received” and the date.

      2. Nola*

        You can pretty quickly determine if something is an invoice and needs to be dealt with or is a letter that can be passed on to someone else.

        There’s a difference between looking and “looking.”

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          And as Jillian notes, most often the “personal” “confidential” “urgent response needed” “this is definitely an official communique the addressee wants to see” is just a mark of spam.

      3. RIP Pillowfort*

        As someone that worked clerical for years and it was my job to open the office mail- you open it and sort based on a quick look at the material inside. Or you just see if there’s an invoice and if not, put the mail in the person’s box unread. Just depends on how the office wanted it handled and asked me to screen the incoming mail.

        Organizations get to decide how they handle their business mail. Some organizations want you to sort it prior to distribution. Clerical may even be tasked with reading and determining priority of response. I’ve done it a couple of ways.

      4. fhqwhgads*

        Somewhere I used to work the policy was all the mail had to be opened to verify it didn’t contain checks or cash. So the person’s job was to open all mail, remove any checks or cash, mark it received, put it in a safe, and then distribute the mail.

      5. RedinSC*

        At the non profit I worked for, mostly they were looking for checks or even sometimes cash got mailed in as a donation.

        There were always 2 people opening the mail because of this reason.

    2. Former Lab Rat*

      It seems intrusive that your coworker is opening your mail. Have you point blank told your coworker to not open your mail?

      My situation was different. I was the point person in our lab. There were times we got perishable materials delivered and the recipient was not around. In that case I would open the package, properly store the material and leave a note on their desk. Everything else was placed unopened in their area.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I didn’t open packages or mail addressed to anyone at OldExJob, just put the envelope in their mail slot or the package on their desk (or emailed them to come up for it if they were in back). Except for checks. If it looked like it might be a check and it was from a client, I opened it.

      At LabJob, I opened everything. If coworkers were expecting a personal package, they would tell me and I would keep an eye out for it, but that rarely happened. Because I opened the mail, I also got first crack at the endless branded merchandise samples we received. I got mugs, keychains, planners, desk items, and once, a really nice t-shirt from ThermoFisher that I wore for ten years or so until it finally died. The only thing my boss claimed was a pair of sunglasses — she really wanted those.

      It really depends on the business’s individual practice. Not all workplaces allow people to get personal packages at work so the assumption would be that it’s work-related. I do think, however, that if a company does allow it, they should instruct whoever handles them to just alert the recipient or put it in their area.

    4. Tippy*

      Yeah, when I worked in local government everything was public record and everything got opened by me for our office. I didn’t care if it said personal, confidential, eyes only, whatever. Legally everything got opened, date stamped, and scanned in.

      Don’t want personal mail opened, don’t send it to your work.

      1. ferrina*

        Don’t want personal mail opened, don’t send it to your work.

        My expectation has been that if I’m having something sent to my work, it may be seen by designated coworkers unless my workplace has explicitly told me otherwise. Having someone designated to open the mail is a pretty standard practice even in smaller companies. (of course, if the coworker referened in the letter isn’t designated to open the mail, that’s a different scenario)

    5. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      This is so industry dependent. In Higher Ed and Medical you don’t open anything not yours unless you’ve been instructed to do so, especially if it says confidential. One time, when I just started out I opened something for our test coordinator thinking it was a check to process. It wasn’t and it was actually student records that were mis -addressed and it was actually not supposed to be opened but by specific people in records. I have learned what envelopes look like checks from our clients and if there’s any ambiguity I leave it for the test coordinator.

      1. Bunter*

        This is so true, I’ve worked in Finance and at the investment banks I worked at, all mail was opened, and determined what was handed to the addressee and what went to another department, as someone mentioned up thread, checks, cash, stock certificates. We’d then get an envelope with a notice saying “So and so sent a check for $x or stock certificate and that has been sent to the relevant department”. Except one time, when I was handed an unopened FedEx and shrugged and opened it to a bearer bond. The blood pretty much drained out of my face and I basically ran to get it out of my hands. Also got reprimanded by Compliance (?!) because I shouldn’t have had it. That was fun.

    6. Momma Bear*

      In my office, unless you have specifically notified the folks sorting the mail/packages, “I’m waiting for THIS to be shipped to me but it’s a private purchase” (for example, a new phone where you might need a signature), everything will be opened. They need to log shipments for POs and inventory. I expect anything that arrives to my office to be inspected, but at least I won’t be worrying about it sitting unattended on my porch.

    7. Red Canary*

      It’s ridiculous that people yelled at you for that. I’ve been the person distributing mail in several jobs– I am that person now, because I’m the one who handles invoices and checks, and that’s the bulk of the mail. Most of the rest (that doesn’t go straight into the recycling) goes to HR, and it’s very easy to tell what’s what without looking at anything confidential.

  5. Mike*

    #1 – how small of a business are you talking, and how many of the employees want the day off? If it’s enough that the business can’t really function if they all take the day, you might consider closing the office and charging everyone’s PTO for the day instead. For anyone who wanted to work and keep their PTO, make sure there is work they can do with specific deliverables (so you know they actually did something) and don’t charge those employees for the day.

    1. Thomas*

      Agreed. Depending on the business, if enough people want the leave, assigning *everyone* to take the leave is reasonable and I expect legal (but do check). But it can come out of regular PTO, it doesn’t need to be an extra day. (Anyone with no PTO left this leave year could just have one advanced from the next year I guess.)

      1. Jezebel*

        A day of forced pto is pretty unfair, though, to anyone who doesn’t want that day off. Why should I lose a day of leave for a game I don’t care about just because many of my coworkers do care?

        1. Ellis Bell*

          Yeah. If the PTO requests really are that disruptive I would expect them to be declined before it affected me as a colleague.

        2. Raktajino*

          That’s why Mike suggested that people could still work–it would just be an opt-in rather than opt-out. I’m envisioning like how the day after Christmas is usually an intentionally slow day in offices.

      2. Observer*

        (Anyone with no PTO left this leave year could just have one advanced from the next year I guess

        Lovely. I suppose that’s legal, but immensely unfair to anyone who would not have otherwise wanted the day off. Losing a day is bad. Losing a day for the future? *Really* bad. Especially if the company tries to recoup that time if someone leaves.

        In other words, no it is not reasonable to force people to essentially lose a day of PTO for something that they didn’t choose.

    2. Katara's side braids*

      As a non sports fan, I’d be pretty annoyed at being forced to lose a day of PTO for something I don’t care about. If possible, I’d say to treat it as any other major holiday at a coverage-based job – try to use whatever rules your company uses for other desirable “holidays” (seniority, first-come first-serve, or whatever else). There’ll be less advance notice than people get for Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc., but it should still be workable if you notify everyone after the team gets to a certain point in the playoffs.

        1. I Have RBF*

          But that’s a company paid “holiday”, it doesn’t come out of your PTO. It’s a random day off that they pay for.

          1. Katara's side braids*

            Right. And it’s a federal holiday in the US, which makes it feel a bit less like a decision *my employer* is making about company culture. We can definitely have a separate discussion about why certain holidays are federal while others aren’t, and why certain federal holidays merit closures almost by default while others don’t, but this discussion is about a private employer’s options for a day that is recognized as a holiday basically nowhere.

    3. Underrated Pear*

      I’m not clear why this would be a better solution? It seems to put the burden on the employees who want to come into work, by (1) putting the onus on them to communicate about opting out of what everyone else is doing, and (2) doing extra reporting.

      If the business really can’t function if everyone takes the day off, then they can’t function. Either force everyone to come in (not great), give everyone a paid holiday (generous but probably not necessary), or do what the LW was already going to do, which is have people take PTO if they want it.

  6. Double A*

    I wonder if LW #5 is getting reimbursed for mileage and if not if they could inquire about that. Between the lost shifts and the massively increased commute (I’m assuming this is a lot farther than your normal office), you’re losing a lot of money. Could you asked about mileage reimbursement and if they won’t do that, can you tell them you can no longer cover in the second location?

    1. Corapizza*

      This is the thing – they’re making them travel 100 miles for a new role and not reimbursing them?!

      1. Hazel,*

        Indeed! I thought usually mileage is (has to be maybe?) reimbursed if it’s not your usual place of work. And agreeing to work 100 miles away to cover is a huge favour. Might be time to put aside personal panic and hurt feelings and make a business proposition to the boss: either pay me my sleep shifts and mileage or find someone else, who won’t have the experience and reliability you’ve come to count on.

    2. toolegittoresign*

      I was going to suggest this. When I worked retail, I sometimes would be asked to go to other locations to cover shifts or help with special projects. I was allowed to log the additional mileage and be reimbursed for it. So just the difference between the new commute vs my regular one. It helped a lot.

  7. Looper*

    LW1- It’s not a “thing”, but since you’re in KC-zone, if you have a significant number of employees interested in having the day off and there would be minimal business impact, would it really hurt? That said, this isn’t 2020. They’ve won 3 of the last 5 Super Bowls so this isn’t a particularly unique opportunity for civic pride.

    1. Triplestep*

      Yes it would hurt because you’d be sending the message you value something completely frivolous to people who don’t care at all about professional athletics. (We exist, believe it or not.) I would hold you in higher regard if you closed the office on election day so people could vote. Can they vote early so they don’t need the whole day off? Sure, and they can also choose not to party on a Sunday because they have work the next day. To me, it’s down to what message you want to send about what you value as a leader.

      1. nodramalama*

        this is an odd take. Lots of people care deeply about sport, more than they care about politics. Just because it doesn’t align with what you think is important doesn’t mean its not important to many. Lots of people don’t care about or value war but there’s public holidays for that.

        1. Emmy Noether*

          I don’t think what people feel is personally important to them is the right angle to look at this comparison. I’d agree if it was about, dunno, choosing between giving a day off for a solar eclipse or a sports thing. Those are both just personal interests that have nothing to do with the government.

          Voting, on the other hand, is a civic right, and a civic responsibility. It has everything to do with the government, and easier access is very much the government’s business and responsibility. It’s not about values, except maybe the value of living in a democracy. And if elected leaders don’t even value living in a democracy… well… I mean, LOOK at the state of the world. But sure, sports: equally or more important than democracy (not “politics”. Democracy.).

          Frankly, holding elections on a workday is extremely weird.

          1. Emmy Noether*

            Wanted to add: it should be a public Holiday (or a Sunday), not up to individual business owners. I had gotten confused between comment threads – what an individual business closes for is indeed different.

            1. Emmy Noether*

              I don’t understand this comment. That was the comparison/choice Triplestep posited and you responded to.

              I agree it’s a bonkers comparison, but I didn’t come up with it. You said it’s ok to care more about sports than voting (“Lots of people care deeply about sport, more than they care about politics.” – where you called democratic elections, which is what Triplestep was talking about, “politics”).

              And if it’s a limited amount of PTO, people are choosing between things to use it on, aren’t they?

          3. Marion Ravenwood*

            The Aussies have the right idea in this regard. The election is a Saturday, voting is mandatory, and you can often buy a sausage in a bun to enjoy after you’ve voted. Sounds perfect.

            1. Emmy Noether*

              Most countries I’m familiar with hold elections on Sundays, but there is most often a deplorable lack of sausage in a bun.

                1. Irish Teacher.*

                  Ours are usually on Fridays in Ireland, largely because of how many college students and young adults come home for weekends. Still annoyed about 2007 when the election was held on Thursday and I was among the young people who couldn’t vote -started a new job about 3 hours drive from home a week or two before the election, too late to change my voting station or even apply for a postal vote. They almost certainly did it deliberately; the party in power was very popular among older people, especially those over 50 or 60 and not popular at all with those under about 35.

                  We’d one referendum held on a Saturday for the reason of making it easier for people to vote, but for some reason, it hasn’t been repeated. I think turnout didn’t increase that much so they figured Friday was fine. Our polls are open from 7am to 10pm (I think it’s similar in the UK?). There’s no particular rush here because they don’t start counting until 9am the following day.

                  I would like to see them on Saturdays. It probably wouldn’t make a huge difference, but let’s make it as easy as possible for people to vote.

                2. Lexi Vipond*

                  Friday seems quite sensible, actually – if you work away from home during the week you can get home and vote, if you’re registered to vote where you work but go somewhere else at weekends you can vote before you go.

                  But as long as there’s decent opening hours and decently availability of ballots (I usually vote at about 7:45am, with approximately one other voter in the place), midweek doesn’t seem terrible – most people are in their usual routine and reasonably near their polling station, rather than scattered across the country to hills and football matches and distant relatives and wherever else people go on Saturdays, or determinedly staying in because they’ve been out all week.

            2. Nina*

              New Zealand always has elections on Saturdays as well (and early voting for up to two weeks ahead of time, and a requirement that if you are working on Saturday and haven’t managed to vote yet, your employer is required to give you paid time to go vote.

            3. kalli*

              The democracy sausage is also for when you’re stuck in line for over an hour.

              Postal voting FTW though.

          4. Smithy*

            I think that the solar eclipse comparison is a good one. If you were in the path of a unique solar eclipse – doing your best to afford the opportunity for staff to all go outside at that time seems thoughtful. If you were a business that had walk-in customers, putting up a sign that says “on break, returning at 1pm” or something similar.

            I think another approach to this that isn’t giving folks a complete day off, is essentially affording them 2-3 hours of late arrival. If folks are just staying up late and drinking a bit more than usual – being able to show up at work between 10-12 should be more than accommodating. If someone is truly staying up so late or partying so hard that they need the full day, than having them take a day of PTO is appropriate. This is a fairly similar approach to where I work and voting. You’re afforded a half day that you can use to vote. Where I live, lines are not such an issue that we need more than that – though there are caveats in the policy that if you need more time to reach out to your manager.

            1. Full of Woe*

              Yes, this was my thought, too. Open two (or three) hours later than usual; pay everyone for a full day.

        3. Ellis Bell*

          While I don’t feel as strongly as Triplestep (I think that sports are capable of doing a lot of good), I do get where they are coming from. I am a non sporty person in a sporty city and it gets Old and then Even Older when everyone makes the assumption that sport is everyone’s tiptop priority. I think there is a big chance of alienating, or at least not impressing, any coworkers who literally do not care about the Superbowl. That said, a day off is a day off, so only if it is forced PTO; they would not necessarily resent a gifted day’s holiday.

          1. Lindy Hopper*

            I completely agree. I care 0% about sports and the mass pandemonium in my city after our hockey team won the Stanley Cup was bananapants. I both understand why businesses would choose to close if the public response to the win is going to be overwhelming or disorderly, and also I would really resent being made to take a PTO day because of sportsball, especially if the reason was basically that my coworkers would all be too hungover to work that day. If it’s treated as a paid holiday, I would roll my eyes internally but take the free day off.

            1. Katara's side braids*

              This. If it’s not an essential business and it’s clear that most people will either take PTO or call in “sick,” my preference would be to just write it off as a paid holiday, but I would feel somewhat alienated knowing that caring about the superbowl had basically been codified into the company culture. Still better than the forced loss of a PTO day, though.

        4. Delta Delta*

          And a lot of people have community pride. They may not be into the sport that is happening, but they may feel a point of pride and happiness for their city/community.

          Example: a college sports team in my state won the national championship in its sport. I did not attend that college and I do not play that sport. But I’m still a little warm with pride for the little school that did something good and put the place on the map because it’s part of my community.

        5. Triplestep*

          Obviously I know it’s important to many. The issue is that “the many” often live in an echo chamber when it comes to sports and make the assumption it’s important to everyone. It’s not. And failure to recognize that is telling.

          1. Apex Mountain*

            lYou might not find it important, or enjoyable but that’s ok – enjoy the day off. If I had a boss who gave employees the day off becasue there was a Jane Austen festival, I would think that’s pretty silly, but I’d be thrilled with an extra day of PTO

            1. Observer*

              If I had a boss who gave employees the day off becasue there was a Jane Austen festival, I would think that’s pretty silly, but I’d be thrilled with an extra day of PTO

              Except that the suggestion is not to give and *extra* day of PTO, but to take it out of people’s existing PTO bank, unless they could WFH and “Prove” that they actually worked. That’s telling.

              1. Apex Mountain*

                When LW said close the office, I assumed that meant everyone would get paid for the day without taking PTO. If not, then yes I would agree

        6. Observer*

          Lots of people care deeply about sport, more than they care about politics.

          That’s true. And to be honest, that’s a genuine problem. Now, I don’t think it’s a problem that people value sports. But to value it more than actually thinking about who governs you and how? Yeah, I think that that is something that people can be legitimately judgemental about.

          For a company to say “sports is more important than voting” is absolutely their right. But it’s also the right of any person who cares about the state of their country / locality to draw their own conclusions and make judgements about the company’s values.

      2. Insert Clever Name Here*

        Maybe this business owner does close for election day! We don’t know because it’s not part of the letter. Regardless, it’s ok to value and enjoy frivolous things (said as someone who couldn’t care less about the Super Bowl).

        1. WellRed*

          Yes it’s OK to like frivolous things. TripleStep, you’re being a little rigid. No one us giving you to loosen your tie and take the day.

        2. Katara's side braids*

          No one said it’s not okay to enjoy those things? Just that it’s alienating to have one’s employer transparently make enjoying those things an explicit part of company culture by prioritizing it for a paid day off. I’m in Eagles territory and don’t personally care about the game, but love that my colleagues do! But I hope anyone who needs off on Monday will take PTO instead of expecting the whole office to close.

          1. Triplestep*

            This is what I am saying. I’m surprised at all of the defensive responses from sports fans. I guess people did not realize that enthusiasm over sports is not the universal thing they thought it was. And that they are saying something about themselves when they behave as though it IS a universal thing. Don’t shoot the messenger!

              1. Triplestep*

                So your take is that the people in the minority are better-understood by the people in majority than the other way around? Is that often true in your life?

                As a Jew and a pretty non-mainstream person who works in corporate culture, I can tell you that in my experience it is not true.

                1. Apex Mountain*

                  I’m a Jewish sports fan – I don’t think sports fandom is universal. But why does that matter? I don’t think love of the military is universal either but we still Memorial Day and Veterans day off

                2. Parakeet*

                  I was just reading this whole comments section and enjoying my sandwich in lieu of having popcorn, but I gotta respond to this one as another Jew/pretty non-mainstream person. I am not a football fan. The only reason I know it’s happening this year is because I’m trying to do a charity fundraiser based on guessing the score. My experiences as a Jew are absolutely nothing like my experiences as a non-football fan lmao. Not in general and not in the sense of how people do or don’t understand my perspective. Not everything in which someone isn’t the majority is comparable to everything else.

                3. Parakeet*

                  Whoops, I forgot a point I meant to add, which is that if someone gives me a paid day off I’m going to enjoy it regardless of whether the reason is something I care about or not.

                4. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

                  Now I want to be given the Monday after the Super Bowl off so I can ask to swap it with Yom Kippur!

                5. Triplestep*

                  @parakeet, @Apex Mountain, I did not think this would need to be explained, but I am not “equating” Judaism with not caring about sports. I was responding to an assertion that the Majority understands the Minority better than the other way around. This is almost never true. I tried to illustrate this by pointing out the many ways I know this dynamic as a member of a minority:
                  1. Non sports fan
                  2. Non main stream person working in corporate culture
                  3. Jew
                  and I could add
                  4. woman in a male dominated field
                  5. older worker in a technical field

                  I know what it is like to be the minority in many ways, and I do not agree that the Majority understands me better than I understand them.

                6. Apex Mountain*

                  @triplestep – I realize you aren’t equating the two. My question was regarding the day off for the Superbowl – what does being in the majority or the minority as far as sports fandom have to do with whether a company is giving a day off or not?

            2. Fluffy Fish*

              I think you are assuming everyone who disagrees with you is a sports fan.

              I’m not a sports fan. I fully support closing for “frivalous” reasons. A business doing something fun and a free day off is nothing but a good thing for an employee.

            3. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

              While I don’t know your specific issues, I feel pretty confident in saying that 99% of the sports fans in your life are not liking sports *at you*, and if I’m wrong about that percentage, I’m betting I’m too low. You’re taking something personally that is vanishingly unlikely to be intended that way.

              1. Triplestep*

                I’m not taking it personally. But apparently I am educating a lot of people that “not liking sports” is a thing non-sports fans don’t talk about at work. Because to do so would be to out ourselves as “weird”. Never had any idea that people would find this a hostile stance – one that they need to defend themselves over. I’m not attacking anyone, this is just a fact.

                1. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

                  I cannot imagine devoting one ounce of brain space to thinking about what my coworkers are deciding not to discuss at work, or why. And I recognize that there are areas where that could be indicative of a real problem (e.g. people not feeling comfortable being out at work). But I assure you people aren’t judging you for not liking sports, and most of them probably wouldn’t give it a second thought at all.

                2. Parakeet*

                  Do people usually talk, at your workplace, about how they don’t like other people’s non-sports hobbies? I feel like it’s unusual in the workplaces I’ve been in to talk about not liking something that other people like, regardless of what the something is. If people are talking about a movie that I have no interest in seeing, I’m not going to come in making sure everyone knows I’m not interested in it. Same for the Super Bowl. There are many likes and dislikes that I don’t talk about at work for various reasons!

                3. RussianInTexas*

                  I do not like sports and have no plans of watching SB. I do not talk about “not liking sports” at work the same way I do not talk about “not liking gardening”, or “not liking whatever else” hobby. It truly has never mattered, and I live in a pretty sports-oriented city and a state as a whole.
                  Also, as long as I don’t have to use my PTO, a day off for something silly like being after SB, is welcome.

          2. Insert Clever Name Here*

            Oh, I definitely misunderstood this part of Triplestep’s comment then:

            Yes it would hurt because you’d be sending the message you value something completely frivolous to people who don’t care at all about professional athletics.

            Like I said, I could not care less about the Super Bowl, but if my small company decided to give everyone a (paid) day off that didn’t come out of my PTO? Cool, thanks for an extra day off, I’m headed to the library to find something fun to read that day!

      3. draft lattes*

        You’re reading A Lot into the letter that isn’t there, Triplestep. It’s okay to like sports, including professional sports, including the Super Bowl. And professional sports aren’t frivolous. Athleticism is hard–just ask people who are not naturally athletic, or who are but couldn’t pursue a career in pro sports for whatever reason (like injury). How many regular commenters on this site–like me– have routinely described themselves as “clumsy” or “not good at sports” for example??

        It’s actually okay to be good at sports and get paid for that (whether the NFL specifically should get as much clout as it does* is another discussion entirely). We have at least regular here who does figure skating–should we ask her if Olympic-level figure skaters shouldn’t get endorsements to offset the costs of their training?

        Like others have pointed out, closing the day after the Super Bowl (or the day of a victory parade) isn’t a totally-weird question to ask, especially if you live/work in a city that has a team in the Super Bowl. I work outside Philly and have been getting that question from college students all week.

        If I owned a business in a city with a Super Bowl team, I would be wondering the same question. Why? More because of the post-game shenanigans that could happen in Philly or Kansas City.
        Neither team is playing IN Philly or Kansas City but when the game ends, residents of both cities will be out in the streets–either still celebrating hard or venting their frustrations. And yes, Philly has a (somewhat exaggerated) reputation for destructive partying/venting but whether KC loses or wins, I bet their fans will also do some vandalism, looting, general property damage, violence, etc on Sunday night too. We’re just not going to hear about it to nearly the extent that we would when it’s Philly. Depending on where exactly the LW and their employees live/work in Chiefs territory, their business may be right in the line of fire on Sunday night. So opening up on Monday morning–or navigating the streets–might not be such a clear-cut answer.

        *concussion and CTE coverups, the Colin Kapernick fiasco, the way it fetishizes the U.S. armed forces without actually doing anything to help improve the lives and wellbeing of active duty members or veterans (….like most U.S. institutions that fetishize the U.S. armed forces), etc.

        1. Sans Serif*

          That’s for sure. I’ve seen several celebrations in Philly where very little happened considering you can literally have millions out in the streets. The Eagles won in Feb 2018 and I was at the parade. Not a problem. Very few arrests, for minor issues. I’ve also been to Phillies and Flyers parades. But to this day, people will insist the Eagles fans “burned down the city” and looted, making it sound like End Times. Yet I’ve heard stories from other cities of riots, actual huge fires, etc – and you never hear about those stories more than once. It’s just the “thing” to assume Philly fans are especially nuts.

        2. Michigander*

          I used to live in Boston and a lot of offices would close for Marathon Monday (the day of the Boston Marathon). Technically it was for Patriots’ Day, but really it’s because it’s just too much of a hassle for some people to get to work and a lot of people like watching the marathon.

      4. darsynia*

        I have to note that not every state allows early voting. Up until 2020 the only early voting PA had was ‘have an accepted reason to vote absentee’ and that was it. Right now they have a really weird loophole version where you ‘vote early by absentee,’ meaning you show up to the designated location and fill out your absentee (relaxed rules on the reasons now) ballot, then hand it over in its envelope. Every year up until that point (and still sometimes), people would request legal and personnel advice about jobs that scheduled their working hours such that they couldn’t vote.

        That said, voting and celebrating a sports event are NOT equivalent.

        1. Triplestep*

          I was not trying to imply they are equivalent. I was saying that if a business closed for a sporting event but not for voting – or MLK day to give another example – that would be telling abut what the business owner valued.

      5. Falling Diphthong*

        Millions of people are happy to have Presidents’ Day off, and yet do not spend that time reflecting on the presidents in question. “Only close for stuff I care about” is a strange line to attempt to draw.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          Literally no one is understanding Triplestep’s point. President’s Day (like the Memorial Day and Veterans day Apex Mountain referenced above) is a government holiday, right? It’s understandable for a government to care about government figureheads and the military. It’s their raison d’etre. It’s a completely different proposition for a non sports company to finance a love of sports fandom, and to express to its employees that this is an important corporate value. I don’t know about Triplestep, but I got pushed out of an entire industry because I wasn’t sporty enough. My partner just got told to not bother applying for a totally non sports related tech job “unless you like sports”. If you like sports yourself, you probably wouldn’t have expected the non sporty to come across this bizarre cold shouldering, but it happens. And it usually happens after a big sporty palooza event that you didn’t get on board with. You would not believe the things that have been said about my personality by people who think it’s too weird to not be into sports.

      6. Fluffy Fish*

        This is a lot over something very not a lot.

        Believe it or not it is ok to have fun and be a little frivolous sometimes. Even at work. Even as a manager or business owner.

        Not everything has to be serious and “professional”. None of us are getting out alive my friend, might as well enjoy things when we can.

        1. Triplestep*

          Is that what you got from my comment? That it’s not OK to have fun?

          That’s interesting. No, you drew the wrong conclusion but it does help illustrate why people who don’t enjoy professional sports are careful not to let their colleagues know this about themselves. Being thought of as “not fun” or “too serious” in the workplace is career limiting. Almost as bad as not being able to use sports references in your business-speak. If you don’t believe me, ask yourself if you know anyone at work who is not into professional athletics. Probably not. We are there, but we just don’t discuss it.

          1. Fluffy Fish*

            Yes. I did get you are making a huge deal over the idea of closing for a fun silly reason. That’s exactly what you said. You dismissed it as frivolous and implied that it is reputation damaging which is pretty much the definition of mountain out of molehill.

            You are also assuming I am a sports fan. You are assuming those who think you are making a big deal of closing are sports fans. I am not. In fact I absolutely hate football. You know what I am a fan of? Days off. I don’t celebrate christmas – still fine with a day off. Columbus? Hate the guy – day off? Sure.

            It’s fine to stay open. It’s fine to close. Neither are big deals. You are actually doing what you are accusing sports fans of. Making it a BIG DEAL because you personally don’t like it.

          3. Pescadero*

            It’s not the “not enjoying sports” – it’s the throwing a big wet blanket on others enjoyment of sports.

            You’re welcome to not like football, or Game of Thrones, or Bluey, or Taylor Swift… but harshing the mellow of people who do like those things is just kind of misanthropic. You can let other people enjoy what they enjoy, even if you don’t.

            1. Anon4This*

              I have no problem with people enjoying sports! If someone wants to take PTO the day after the Super Bowl, go for it! Have fun! My problem is this idea that the world (and therefore everyone else) needs to also revolve around what they enjoy, as evidenced by the number of folks in the comments who seem to think the LW should just close down or give them a free day, rather than just letting them take PTO.

              1. Falling Diphthong*

                I think a whole lot of those people (raises hand) do not personally care about sports. But we agree that people like being given paid days off, and would not berate a company for giving us the day after the Super Bowl, the Friday before the Super Bowl, Groundhog Day, Valentines Day, Cinco de Mayo, the World Cup playoffs, Pi Day, or any other excuse for a surprise day off. Tomorrow is National Frozen Yogurt Day, while Friday celebrates both fettucine al fredo and the mathematical constant e.

                Like the reason that the office has cupcakes this week doesn’t matter nearly as much as the presence of the cupcakes. Math? Pasta? Sports? Gladys’s birthday? The running of the bulls? We just want some simple carbs.

              2. RussianInTexas*

                I personally do not care about sports.
                However, I would not say no to a random paid day off (that does not require a use of PTO) because of a Super Bowl, GOT watch party, Olympics, chess tournament, and literally whatever else. Day off is a day off.

      8. Looper*

        I think that if I worked for a small biz that gave random Mondays off with no impact on my PTO bank, my take would be the owner values a worklife balance. And that’s a good thing!

          1. Triplestep*

            They could just give a random flex day. I would prefer to take off the Jewish High Holidays without dipping into my PTO than “day after Super Bowl”, thank you very much.

            The idea that people are saying “listens to their employees” as if everyone loves professional sports and wants the day is kind of proving my point.

            1. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

              Independent of the sports stuff, you should absolutely not have to use your PTO to follow a religious holiday. That’s ridiculous.

              1. Phony Genius*

                Not all religions have the same number of holidays. (Hinduism has about 40.) So this is the fairest way to do it.

      9. Nancy*

        It’s ok to give people random days off for fun things. My office gives us off for the Boston Marathon and we once got a day off because it was going to be a nice day after a long string of gloomy days. We get half day for election day, your choice of morning or afternoon.

          1. Nancy*

            Yes, I know, I live here. Most workplaces do not have off for Patriots’ Day. Mine doesn’t, my department gives it to us as a free day off for the Boston Marathon.

          3. Falling Diphthong*

            And my husband, working in Massachusetts, has never had that holiday off.

            When I worked in house, I got it off because the building was on the marathon route, not because we were extremely devoted to the meaning of Patriot’s Day.

      10. Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk*

        One person’s “valuing something frivolous” is another person’s “listening to employee requests.”

        1. Triplestep*

          So you didn’t realize that there are people in the office actively hiding their disinterest in sports because they risk being considered the workplace weirdo? I think a lot of people are learning that for the first time here today (based on the comments I’m getting) but finding that that revelation “exhausting” is sad.

          1. Nancy*

            That sounds more like an issue with your specific workplace. I don’t care about sports, everyone knows it, and no one at any job has ever cared.

            1. JMC*

              My job has sports nuts in it but I seriously DO NOT care about this ridiculous game. Luckily we won’t have the Monday after super bowl off so it IS on those people to get their crap together that Monday and work unless they take PTO. We don’t even get Juneteenth off and that is way more important.

            2. Ellis Bell*

              There are loads of industries where you would have to hide it, and also lots of industries where no one would care.

      12. LL*

        I feel like this is an overreaction though. Who cares why you get the day off? just enjoy the day off!

    2. CTT*

      I think what does make this different from the other wins is that if they win, they will be the first team to ever win three straight Super Bowls. Which is an achievement! But not closure-worthy.

    3. Mobie's Mom*

      Yeah, I was gonna say – it’s cool you’re in the Super Bowl, but now it’s practically an annual thing, so it seems like less of a big deal that you have to celebrate so hard, and I’d be leaning toward not giving the day. But you know your business needs best. Also, maybe something to consider – will this happen every time? Will there be other things your employees will now want to push for that are out of the norm because you gave this day? (That’s just me being cynical, probably, but you’d know better than I would if your employees may try to keep pushing.)

    4. Totally Minnie*

      The only caveat I’d give is that if they do close the business, they need to make it a paid day. Don’t force people who otherwise wouldn’t to use a vacation day over something they don’t need the day off for.

  8. Nodramalama*

    Lol LW1 reminds me of when Australia’s prime minister Bob Hawke said that any employer who didn’t let people take the day off after watching Australia win the America’s cup was a bum.

    1. MK*

      He sounds like one himself; he is prime Minister he can declare a public holiday if he wants to, instead of trying to shame businesses into closing.

      1. Rebeck*

        Not that quickly he couldn’t. They have to be Gazetted and back in the 80s that meant Monty ahead of time.

      3. Daria grace*

        Public holidays in Australia have substantial legal implications (most notably that employers are obligated to pay anyone working that day substantially increased rates and employees have some rights to refusing unnecessary demands to work through a public holiday) so declaring a random public holiday at very short notice is not something that can be done. Then there’s that the Australian prime minister doesn’t have powers to unilaterally degree stuff without putting it through the parliamentary process like is possible some places

  9. Myrin*

    #4, I work in local government and our front desk is specifically instructed to open all mail (other than big packages because that would be a huge hassle and often they’re harder to move where they’re supposed to end up when they’re already cut open; the front desk does open the invoices attached to the packages, though) unless it’s specifically addressed to one person.
    So a letter to “City Archive, City of Thing” is fair game but a letter to “Myrin Thinks, Archivist of City of Thing” is not.
    I’m now wondering about the legalities, actually (we’re not in the US) – possibly this falls under “secrecy of the letter” laws but maybe it’s like Alison says here, too, that it’s different with organisations. I’ll have to look that up!

    But yeah, that presupposes that the coworker in question is actually charged with opening mail (as our front desk is). If they aren’t, you have every right to ask them to stop (and I would find it pretty alarming if they insisted on doing it anyway).

  10. Chocolate Teapot*

    I remember there was talk in the UK about days off if the men’s and women’s football teams won their respective finals, but in both cases they came second to Spain.

    The only other example of days off I can think of are for major royal events such as William and Kate’s wedding and the funeral of Elizabeth II, which were planned some time in advance.

    1. Disappointed Australien*

      My mind can’t help comparing that to the monarch’s birthday public holiday. “Regardless of when she actually dies, we declare the 16th of August 2030 a public holiday to commemorate her death”.

      In Aotearoa someone commented that if they’d known we got a public holiday every time one dies they would have expedited a whole series of them. And then the King died and we didn’t get a public holiday. It’s not racist, but.

    2. perstreperous*

      A lot of companies announced very late – even on the night of the match in some instances – that staff could “come in an hour late” the day after the finals even though England lost, which caused much annoyance when people turned up at supermarkets at 8am on their way to (untruncated) work and found that opening was 9am rather than 8am …

  11. Indolent Libertine*

    LW2 – Respond, briefly and to the point, as if *of course* he’ll find it totally reasonable for you to decline (as he should). “This was… unexpected. I’m with a long-term partner. I’m sure we’ll run into one another at Cafe Whoozit one of these days. Best, LW2.” And then block or ignore from there.

    1. Emmy Noether*

      I’d go with “It was nice chatting, but I’m not interested in anything further. See you around!”. Make it short, but do it. Otherwise there’s a good chance he’ll ask you if you read the message if you bump into him again. And since he seemed pleasant enough, I’d give the benefit of the doubt that he’ll take it well. That way you don’t have to give up your coffee spot out of awkwardness.

      I know there are differences of opinion on whether to give an existing relationship as a reason to turn someone down. My stance is that I generally don’t, especially if it’s someone I will probably see again. Because it can be interpreted as “you’d have a chance if I were single”, so there are some people who – misguidedly – try to hang around and wait out the end of the relationship. Better to make it clear that I’m generally not interested.

      (If it’s a situation where someone won’t respect that, or you just need to get out of quickly and safely, say whatever you need to say).

      1. BeVagueButClear*

        Yes, this. I have a semi-creep mostly stranger who asked me years ago if I was seeing someone after we shared a few casual friendly words the first time we met (on the subway). I said yes even though I wasn’t to shut him down and now whenever I see him around (thankfully only once every few years) he asks me if I’m still seeing him, clearly waiting to pounce. I’ve had to really go out of my way to make sure he doesn’t know where I live a few times when he’s been eager to walk me home from the subway station and each time it gets harder and harder to get rid of him. Thankfully it really is rare as I don’t know his name or have any clear way to identify him to someone else.

        1. DJ Abbott*

          I feel concerned about the situation. He’s been doing this for a few years? He should have moved on after a few months.
          It seems like there should be more you can do. I don’t know your exact situation, but I have two thoughts.
          1. Find out more about him. Next time you see him, get his name and other info, like where he works or lives.
          2. Tell him firmly are not interested and to leave you alone. If he doesn’t, you will call the police. That has always worked for me, the police scares them away.
          You can do both the steps in order so if you do have to call the police or escalate to someone else, you’ll have the information.
          Good luck!

          1. DJ Abbott*

            PS- also tell your friends and family about this, in case you need their help. They might have other suggestions to keep you safe.

          2. darsynia*

            Oof showing interest in name and where he works or lives will be read as interest by this person, though.

            1. DJ Abbott*

              It might, but then she could identify him if it escalates. If he does presume interest, then tell him firmly she’s not interested.
              He’s been stalking her for *years*. He’s not going to stop on his own.

          3. Frankie*

            This is dangerous advice. BeVague doesn’t need to put themself in the line of fire for any reason. They should continue to do what makes them feel safe with this person.

          4. BeVagueButClear*

            He does it very infrequently once every 2-4 years when he sees me coming out of the subway station near where I live. It’s probably been 22-23 years since the first time. I tell him I’m still in a relationship, but it doesn’t really help.

            I personally think the infrequent nature of the chance meetings is what causes him to keep trying- after all, it’s been a few years, I could have broken up with my boyfriend since the last time. He is creepy and makes me uncomfortable, but I have always been able to eventually shake him off and he has never shown any overt sign of violence. Also, I live in an apartment building so, in theory, even if he figures out I live here he likely won’t find me directly. I do my best to disengage as quickly as possible as any sign of engagement is definitely taken as encouragement, so while I appreciate the advice to ask for his name or other identifying info I’m going to pass.

            1. BeVagueButClear*

              Actually it’s probably closer to 6 years since the last time. Definitely pre-pandemic.

            2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

              My spidey sense suggests you dscreetly take his picture on your phone and send it to a trusted friend or family member with the background on these interactions.

              1. Observer*

                I agree. This guy is not reasonable, and even though it’s infrequent, he’s getting more persistent, by your description.

        2. Working under my down comforter*

          I’m really sorry to read that. Are you able to alert someone like a station agent the next time he does this or is there a coffee shop or a supermarket near your stop that you can go into and get help if needed?

        3. Emmy Noether*

          Oh no, that crosses over into truly concerning territory. I was thinking more of socially awkward and clueless, where sometimes a hard, unconditional “NO”* can work where a softened no doesn’t.

          Your situation sounds more like a true creep, and for those, it’s unpredictable and often doesn’t change anything what one says exactly anyway. If you feel safe enough, you can try a “yes, I still am, but even if I wasn’t I’m not interested”, once. Don’t get sucked into a conversation, don’t smile, don’t apologize. It will feel very rude, but that’s ok, I promise. Sometimes it will work. If it doesn’t… very concerning. Stay safe!

          *I was once asked out by a TA (after the semester had ended). He thought I was flirting with him because, and I quote, I was “always looking at him while he talked.” (in class where he was teaching us!!). I was so flabbergasted I just said “NO!”, loudly, and nothing else. He would cross the street to avoid me after that, which was fine by me.

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        With the sole goal of shutting this down for the next time you run into him, I would include the mention of partner, as “While I don’t care that you said no, and see it as a reason to demonstrate my gumption, I do care deeply that your existing owner said no” is sadly a thing.

        Pro tip: If you meet someone in real life, and then track them down on their socials, that will always land as creepy.

        1. Great Frogs of Literature*

          I think the exception to your rule is a legit professional connection — I wouldn’t find it odd to get a linkedin request from a coworker, vendor, someone I met and talked to for a while at a professional conference, someone I was in an interview with, etc.

          But a stranger in a cafe? Unless we discovered that we share the same niche field or something, that would definitely come off as creepy to me without a very explicit “Look me up on [social]!” invitation.

          1. ferrina*

            100% this.

            If it’s a professional connection that sends me a LinkedIn request, yes! That’s great!
            If it’s someone who’s looking for a date that tracks me down online, that’s scary. Especially as a women- there’s a pretty heavy crossover between “guys who track you down online” and “guys who can’t handle rejection”.

          2. Falling Diphthong*

            Sure. It’s like the difference between getting an email that says “Hi, Marmalade Gabler recommended you as a drum teacher? I’m looking for a teacher for my 10 year old.” vs “Hi, Marmalade Gabler says you are single, and so I would like to go on a date with you sometime.”

      3. GermanGirl*

        This, just friendly but directly declining will do the trick in most cases.

        And doing it now over linked in will save both of you the awkwardness of having to do it in person when you meet next.

      4. Miss Fire*

        I mean, if OP is in a couple already, that provides the easiest, least ding-to-the-ego rejection reason; there’s no benefit to going vague with it. Yes it’s not cool that if OP was single but just wasn’t interested in the asker, that would be trickier to phrase than just “Thanks but I have a boyfriend; it was nice seeing you!”, but… use the easy (and true!) out if you have it!

    2. Account*

      I agree- if you ignore it, he will likely think you didn’t see it. Then he’ll be hoping to run into you again so he can ask you out in person! Give him a quick No Thanks so that doesn’t happen.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        I actually suspect the whole point of asking OP out remotely was to avoid the chance of an in-person rejection. So I’d expect a lot of awkward attempts at asking if you’re the sort of person who checks your notifications often.

      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Eh, I’d say ignore it and if he asks you about it say you don’t really use LinkedIn and haven’t checked it in years. If you see him in person again (and maybe that’s likely, as he might start going to the coffee shop more often now that he knows you go there too) and he says something, then you can say, oh, no thanks. If he starts getting weird, then you can mention to the coffee shop, but he might (emphasis on *might*) be a reasonable person who actually can take no for an answer.

    3. Olive*

      The message was described as flirtatious, and I wonder if there was anything to actually say “no” to.

      Shy people might be embarrassed to be direct, but jerks use it to accuse women of being arrogant narcissists (how typical of a woman that you’d think my friendly message was flirting, you sure think a lot of yourself). If there wasn’t a clear request for a date, I’d ignore it and be prepared with a canned answer of disinterest if he’s at the coffee shop again.

    4. MigraineMonth*

      I encourage LW2 to respond however they feel most comfortable, keeping in mind that there is *no* perfect response that will keep an unreasonable man from reacting unreasonably.

      Personally, I’d find the fact that the man noted my place of business to track me down on LinkedIn when I hadn’t given him any way to contact me very discomfiting (whether he intends it or not, he’s signaling that he knows where to find me) and would probably be chillier.

  12. Irish Teacher.*

    LW1 reminds me of the school I did my teaching practice in. At the end of the year, the principal put a note up on the whiteboard in the staffroom, asking for suggestions for what days the school should close the following year and somebody wrote, “take the Monday after the All-Ireland hurling final off.” Then there was a reply under it, asking, “have ye given up on the (Gaelic) football?” and another suggesting, “take the Mondays after both finals off.”

    But they were jokes (I think) and pretty sure the school didn’t close for either. I don’t know much about the Super Bowl, but I think it’s reasonable enough to expect people to use PTO.

  13. Caro*

    If your staff do not get much PTO, it might be kind to give them the day off OR the option to choose a different one (within a set time frame – say 3 months or whatever, or only during quiet season, whatever applies).

    It would be awful if there were to be a power outage during the Superbowl though.

    1. TeaCoziesRUs*

      Yeah, it would… particularly for the stadium or bars hosting parties. I would sincerely hate to see hundreds of thousands of people inexplicably plunged into darkness and surrounded by strangers. It doesn’t seem a situation in which the best of humanity would emerge.

      Hate on football all you want, but try not to wish actual harm on people. :)

    2. NoIWontFixYourComputer*

      Power outage happened back in 2013 when San Francisco played Baltimore in Super Bowl XLVII (yes, the Superb Owl is pretentious enough to use Roman Numerals instead of just the year).

  14. Rebecca*

    LW 2 – It’s not the shooting his shot that gives me pause, or even that the medium used is LinkedIn. It’s the tracking down – using a detail of clothing to find information about you.

      1. Rebecca*

        Yep, I wouldn’t be setting up a perimeter yet or anything, but my spidey senses would be tingling. Using the brand on my jacket to track me down?

        If they are indeed both regulars at the coffee shop, my instinct, if I wanted to shoot my shot, would be to go to the coffee shop more often in the hopes of seeing them again, and then, I don’t know, asking for their number.

        1. ferrina*

          Exactly this. I would be on high alert from this.

          I would be less worried if they hung out at the coffeeshop more for a couple weeks and then gave me their number or directly asked me out. Going through the trouble of looking for info on me on the internet is… a lot for a single conversation.

          1. higheredalumna*

            Eh, I’d be concerned amd wary but also can appreciate that a genuinely fun convo after months, if not years, of terrible online dating would lead to this poor decision. Proceed with caution, and if anything feels off from there on out, make sure your baristas know too so decisions can be made if he’s been inappropriate repeatedly.

        2. MigraineMonth*

          Yeah. He was having a conversation with her! He could have just *asked* for her number/if she was single. The fact that he did an end-run around her ability to decline is what’s creepy.

    2. Evan88*

      This seems like an overreaction to me. He’s sent one message. If he escalates after a rejection that would be a problem, but that hasn’t happened.

      1. Wolf*

        I agree – he did a weird thing, but not someting that sounds dangerous or threatening. Say no, and do not let him come between you and your favourite coffee.

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          I think people are saying not “This is full-on stalking, in the legally prosecutable sense” but “This tactic hits a very stalker vibe, and that should not be your goal, so don’t do this.”

        2. MigraineMonth*

          If I have a great conversation with someone and they ask if I’m single or ask for my number (in an appropriate place/manner), that’s fine and unthreatening. They’re giving me a chance to decline.

          If they find out my contact information another way and contact me, that’s a bit unsettling. It means this is someone who doesn’t want to give me an opportunity to say “no”.

          If they find out a way to contact me in a way that implies they know more about me than I shared–such as my address or where I will be during the day–it really does escalate to concerning that quickly.

          A *lot* of women are socialized to fear men–particularly strangers who might be interested in us–in part because we don’t think that we will be believed or helped if the behavior escalates from “stalkerish” behavior to “actual stalking” (and don’t want to be blamed for not having done the perfect thing to nip it in the bud before it escalated). Remember, LW2’s reaction to this “one message” was to ask if she should “Take a hiatus from my favorite cafe and hope I don’t see him around the neighborhood?”

        1. Rebecca*

          Sorry, hit send too soon.

          My spidey senses would be tingling, because if someone is willing to go to the effort to do the tracking down, especially based on where one’s employment is, based only on the branding of a jacket, the chances of them not taking the rejection well go way, way up.

          It’s not an overreaction – it’s the math on whether an overreaction is needed.

          1. ferrina*

            It’s about the statistics.

            Too many men don’t take rejection well. Not all men, obviously, but a high enough number for a woman to be reasonably wary. Every woman I know has a story about a man hearing “no thank you” and making overt or implied threats, or even going out of his way to somehow “punish” the woman for saying no (spreading rumors about her to outright violence). Again, not most men, but enough that it means women have to be ready for a bad reaction.

            The correlation between “Men who tracks down information online after a single conversation” and “Men who handle rejection badly” is high enough for me to be on alert. Again, I’m not saying this guy is absolutely a problem or going to be a problem in the future, but there’s a high enough chance that I’m going to be wary.

            *these examples are for hetero couples because that is the highest studied population and these things are most likely to happen from a man romantically pursuing a woman. It is not exclusive to that scenario and can also happen with a woman pursuing a man or within a same-sex couple. So trust your gut.

        2. Seashell*

          I think it would depend on the circumstance. If he went through the LinkedIn profiles of every Jennifer who works for Amazon to find her, that’s a lot of effort. If she’s Dorcas at Llamas R Us that employs five people, she would be easy to find.

        3. Ellis Bell*

          There’s a female dating coach online who sent out a PSA to people to ‘please not do this’ after a guy asked her out by finding one of her professional pages and messaging her there. I really liked her phrasing to him (she showed it as part of the PSA). “This page is for business purposes, not dating or romantic overtures. Please do not try to find ways to contact me that I have not expressly given you.”

          1. Rebecca*

            I run a small school and I have a facebook and instagram presence to market it.

            I could make a modern art project of the men who message me to flirt with a school.

      3. Falling Diphthong*

        It strikes me as creepy.

        She was right there.
        He could ask “So… are you single?” and hear either “No” or “I am scrambling in a way that should indicate that you should not push this any further, because I am not interested.”
        He could say “Listen, it was great chatting with you: Would you like to meet for coffee tomorrow, same time?”
        He could privately note that since they are both regulars, he should hit this cafe more often at this time, and the next time he sees her in person continue the conversation and ask her out.

        Doing it this way sends the messages “I can find you, outside of the means of contact you have voluntarily given me” and “I didn’t want you to reject me in person, but now that I know how to get to you through not-in-person means…” Don’t do it.

      4. TeaCoziesRUs*

        Yeah, ditto. I remember doing stuff like that in my 20s, and would give him the benefit of the doubt **so long as he backs off as soon as you say you aren’t interested.

        I also would let him know that you aren’t interested via that message. That way you can enjoy your shop, be pleasant around him and maybe enjoy another chat or two, without getting his hopes up. Insert your partner naturally into the conversation – “last weekend? oh, honey and I went out to Ikea and then built furniture for our new library,” or whatever.

        We don’t talk about it enough, but I know it’s HARD to make friends as adults. IIIFFF he seems a decent person who respects boundaries after being given a firm no turn why not enjoy a potential new friend?

      5. Bee*

        Yeah, I think this is a little bit over the line, but also exactly the kind of thing Facebook was designed for (and how everyone I knew used it in college), so it’s not actually all that shocking to me. Send him a quick friendly no, assume you’ll both be normal if/when you run into each other again, and if he escalates you tell the cafe about it so they can kick HIM out and you can keep going.

        1. ferrina*

          It’s what Facebook is designed for, but not LinkedIn. In my experience, people that are open to this kind of messaging already have active Facebook accounts that can be easily found. If he had found her on Facebook, I’d be less wary.
          LinkedIn is designed for and known to be a professional networking site. It’s not intended to be used for dating, and the vast majority of users do not want romantic solicitations on the site.

          It’s about respecting cultural boundaries. This is also a really well known thing that LinkedIn is not used for dating. He already crossed a minor social boundary by looking her up on LinkedIn for dating purposes.
          Does that mean that he’s a terrible person? Not necessarily. We have no way of knowing what’s going through his mind. But it does mean that I’m looking for additional information to either show me that 1) he’s potentially dangerous or 2) he’s clueless about that cultural norm. Either way, I’m wondering how many women he knows as friends, because many women will tell you that it’s unsettling to know that a man is tracking you online for romantic purposes (it’s a green flag when a man is cognizant about the inherent risks for a woman dating men; it means he listens to people who have other life experience and perspectives, he respects other perspectives, and he is empathetic).

          1. Bee*

            Well, everyone I know is off Facebook! Honestly I respect this choice if only because using LinkedIn means he is giving her all his information as well: full name, place of work, history, etc, all the kinds of information people used to have on Facebook. He’s giving her the opportunity to look him up. I think it’s actually really forthcoming and a smart way to level the playing field – I’d personally be way more creeped out if he found her on Instagram, which would require a lot more digging and would allow him to do a lot more obfuscating.

              1. amoeba*

                Eeeh, it had changed away from that by the time it became really popular – and then it descended into racism and spam, plus it became “uncool” when first Insta and then Tiktok came along.

                I do remember a time when I’d lost my wallet and a nice stranger used Facebook to find me and give it back – so yeah, definitely useful for that kind of thing, and I guess nowadays it would be LinkedIn or nothing!

          1. Bee*

            I don’t see a meaningful distinction here, I’m sorry. If they connected over LinkedIn for ostensibly professional purposes and then he hit on her, I’d be grossed out. If he found her on a site where she didn’t use her real name or had no other identifying factors, I’d be hitting the “stalker” button SO hard. But I don’t think using the name she gave him to find her on a public-facing site intended for connecting people is in & of itself a huge overstep. He may certainly end up being creepy! But that could be the case if he’d asked her out in person, too.

            1. Jennifer Strange*

              LinkedIn exists as a place to connect for professional purposes, not for asking for a date. That’s the meaningful distinction. Just as networking events aren’t places to hit on people just for existing, neither does a networking website exist for that reason. If he wasn’t going to ask her out in the moment and wasn’t able to find another non-work connection, then let it go.

            2. Ellis Bell*

              Because women at work are constantly fending off suitors, or trying to gauge whether New Networking Contact is a real contact or just another fuckwit. Meanwhile, men are seamlessly putting their network together and getting ahead. It’s still somewhat creepy on FB*, but at least you can disable Facebook without penalising yourself professionally. *unless you use FB as a professional business page, in which case it goes all the way back up to full strength creepy. And I say this as someone who has always been open to being asked out. However there’s a time and a place, and it shouldn’t involve tracking people down.

    3. Kate*

      This is why I cringe at rom-coms, because this is the exact kind of meet-cute “he remembered the name on the jacket, and he tracked her down, that’s so sweet!” message that give people terrible ideas about how to “be romantic!”

      As the mom of a boy in college now, I spent years talking to him about how what you see guys do in rom com movies and tv shows is absolutely not what to do in real life.

      But it’s an uphill battle when pop culture shows persistence! in the face of “she said no” as being dreamy.

  15. Lissa*

    I don’t know which country #3, but in the country where I live there are very strong legal protections for workers, and it’s impossible to fire someone on the basis of low performance. Being fired for incompetence is predicted in the law, but there are enough caveats that in practice, it’s impossible to do that, no matter how well documented the performance issues are. The employee can sue and the company will be accused of forcing the employee to perform duties that were not in their employment contract; not providing adequate training; or discrimination. The only way you could legally fire someone is if they missed to many days of work without a plausible justification; or if they committed a crime against the company and were convicted for it.

    2. Emmy Noether*

      I’m from Germany, where the protections are similar, and I want to dispel the notion a bit that people can never be let go here (and you end up with a horrible workplace full of mediocre workers you can’t get rid of asa consequence).

      People do get let go. Easiest within the trial period (where you don’t really need a reason), but also afterwards. I’ve seen it happen. It’s more work than just yelling “you’re fired!”, but it is doable. Big companies will often be reluctant and just shunt them to a place they can do the least damage, but smaller companies that can’t afford to do that and have decent leadership do let them go.

      (Also, if mediocre people get fired more quickly, they mostly just get a job elsewhere to be mediocre in. The speed of the churn is maybe different, the percentage of mediocre people is not.)

      1. Lissa*

        Here, the situations where I’ve seen that happen were where companies made informal agreements where they give workers a severance package so that worker hands in their resignation. Officially, the worker resigned – they weren’t fired.

        1. Emmy Noether*

          Oh yeah, coming to an agreement with the employee is definitely the best way. I’ve also seen sort of a “mutually agreed end of employment” (conscious uncoupling, anyone?) so that the employee doesn’t get the delayed unemployment benefits that can come with a resignation. Pay out a decent severance, don’t go to court, best for all concerned.

          1. Lissa*

            Same here. Curious about how it’s in Germany, here in Portugal companies can only send a max of X% of employees to collect unemployment benefits per year, otherwise the company has to pay the employees’ unemployment benefits to social security – is it the same there?

            1. Heffalump*

              There’s something similar in the US, but it varies from state to state. Employers pay into the unemployment insurance fund regardless, but if they send more than X% of employees to collect unemployment benefits per year, they pay at a higher rate. It’s called an experience-rated system. The rationale is to encourage employers to maintain stable payrolls. Most states use this system. When I moved to Seattle in 1981, Washington state didn’t use an experience-rated system, and then at some point it changed.

      2. londonedit*

        Similar in the UK, too – not sure whether we have quite as many protections for workers but we certainly have the bulk of the EU stuff still, and the current government wants to tighten things up. And yet you definitely can get rid of people for poor performance – you just have to be careful to follow the proper procedures. In reality employment tribunals are expensive and lengthy and many people will decide it’s just not worth it even if they did have grounds for one.

        We have probation periods here, usually around three or six months, and during that time employment can be terminated on either side without much notice (where I work it’s two weeks, not sure if that’s the standard everywhere). Once an employee has passed probation yes it does become more tricky to fire them unless there’s an instance of gross misconduct, but still, you can absolutely do it as long as you follow the proper procedure (which would usually involve an escalating series of warnings, and/or a performance improvement plan, etc). And of course what often happens is that the employee sees the writing on the wall and leaves of their own accord. What also sometimes happens – although you do have to be a bit careful with this – is that a company might sit down with an employee and say look, it isn’t really working out, is it, how about we pay you a month’s salary and you can say you resigned, rather than going down the road with a disciplinary process. So there are ways of doing it – you don’t just have thousands of crap people sitting there doing a terrible job.

        1. Lissa*

          We also have probation periods here, during that time we can fire employees without any reason. We still need to give them advance notice (up to 1 month max, depending on how much of the probation period they served so far), and if the advance period isn’t respect, the employees are considered permanent employees.

        2. AF Vet*

          Don’t y’all tend to use contracts for employment? In the US, I am only familiar with defense contractor contracts, so I can be WAY off base. However, I would assume that a contract has a limited time span, and the option on either end not to renew? So why not just let the contract finish, then release the person, while giving them enough of a heads up that they can job hunt?

          Thanks for the education. :)

          1. Lissa*

            Here in Portugal there are three main types of contracts: permanent, fixed-term, and uncertain. Permanent gives the most protection and it’s what makes it almost impossible to fire workers. Uncertain is mostly used in consultancy projects where consultants are working for clients, it tends to be project based – you were hired to provide services to company X on project Y and project Y is planned to end in 2 years, but may take more time, or may take less – you are employed as long as project Y lasts. Fixed-term is only to be used for short term assignments, but it’s a very common type of contract and it’s easily abused because it’s super easy to fire those workers. You hire a fixed-term worker and you write it in their employment contract that they were hired to help deal with an increased number of support requests from customers based in Spain. In practice, that worker is handling support requests from customers all over EMEA. The fixed-term contract can’t be longer than 2 years, if you are employing that worker for longer than 2 years, they’re considered a permanent employee with a permanent employment contract. So when the 2 years are up, they terminate that workers’ contract (which is not considered firing, but a contract expiry, and the worker collects unemployment benefits). It’s illegal for a company to hire someone else to do the same job, so they hire another employee with a fixed-term contract but they write it in their employment contract that they were hired to help deal with an increase number of support requests from customers in Italy. In practice, the worker does the exact same work as the employee that was let go. But it’s easier for the company to get rid of the employees, and it’s easy for the company to come up with a fake reason to hire another person to do the same job.

          2. Irish Teacher.*

            No, work contracts often don’t have a limited time span. As a teacher in Ireland, I have what is called a “Contract of Indefinite Duration,” which basically means until retirement.

            1. Irish Teacher.*

              To clarify, in case it isn’t clear, this doesn’t mean you can’t leave the job (or even that you can’t be fired if you do something truly egregious), just that the contract lasts until you leave whether by choice or at retirement. It isn’t a time-limited thing that gets renegotiated.

              In fact, public service jobs here are often considered “jobs for life.”

          3. Emmy Noether*

            AS the others said, the vast majority of contracts have no end date, and have a clause how either side may terminate it. Contracts with end dates are considered “precarious” employment.

            Fun fact: leases for real estate usually don’t have end dates in Germany either. They’re never up!

          4. Myrin*

            Nope, “normal” contracts are generally unlimited. In fact, the same employer can only offer an employee a limited term contract so many times (two or three, I forget); any more than that is illegal.

        3. Lellow*

          Probation is not the only thing – you can be let go at all within the first two years of employment at each company except for discrimination reasons.

      1. Sloanicota*

        TBH, as an employee that sounds kind of terrible too! I don’t want to be on a team of people who, willfully or otherwise, don’t do their part and will never leave.

        1. Emmy Noether*

          See, that’s why I felt I had to comment with some nuance, above. It sounds like it would lead to accumulating mediocre or bad workers, but it really doesn’t in practice. Termination is still possible with some effort, and also, there isn’t really a higher percentage of bad workers in the population to just accumulate everywhere. From reading this site, easier firing certainly doesn’t seem to lead to workplaces with exclusively awesome productive workers, either.

          I don’t want people thinking worker protections are bad! In this aspect they’re fairly neutral (well, management does have to work harder I guess, but neutral for the employee), and in other aspects they’re of course great!

          1. Myrin*

            Yeah, I’m almost certain that the bosses I’ve known who are shockingly bad at disciplining and firing – my current boss being one of those *sigh* – wouldn’t be any more proactive about it if we had fewer worker protections.

    4. OP#3*

      OP here! US based, at-will state too so they really don’t need much of a reason.
      “Employment at-will is the principle that an employer can terminate employment for any reason, at any time provided that is not illegal.”

      1. Lissa*

        Thank you for adding that detail! I’ve actually worked for international companies before, with US based workers whose employment was always employment at will, and firing was still always delayed – a lot of serious conversations, additional training, one or two PIPs. Which I appreciate! People should be given some grace. But in some places I’ve seen so many employees being given so much grace it feels like the company is a non-profit that tries to lower unemployment rates among the lazy.

  16. ChurchOfDietCoke*

    Most women I work with remove their staff lanyard (which is BRIGHT BLUE and clearly states the company we work for) before they go out for lunch/coffee etc. It’s deeply sad that we have to protect ourselves from creepy guys tracking us down on LinkedIn, still.

    1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

      Putting company name on your staff lanyards is such a bad idea! For personal privacy, as you note, but also: if you lose it or it’s stolen, having the company name right there means it’s a big security risk if a bad actor gets ahold of it.

      1. I Have RBF*

        One company I worked for did not even put the company name on the front of our badges to prevent people from getting stalked to the workplace, or social engineered based on their name and employer. It was considered a security thing.

        1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

          Yeah, our badges have no indication of the company anywhere, badge or lanyard—no company name, no logo, just a white background. The lanyard wasn’t in company colors. Social engineering attacks was part of why.

    2. Joron Twiner*

      This, and also taking care not to refer to your company by name where it can be overheard, if it’s a well known one.

      And also taking care to not name the people you’re complaining about to fellow coworkers, in case anyone at your company is also at lunch and hears you complaining about Bob in Legal!

  17. I don’t want your package!*

    Let me try again without accidentally replying elsewhere…

    OP#4 – I don’t know your situation, bur I will come at this from a supply chain person in a manufacturing environment. Sometimes suppliers out my name on stuff. I don’t want this stuff delivered to me.

    Someone years ago complained that receiving open their packages addressed to them. Now everything gets delivered to you if your name is on it, no question. I have had receiving folks wheel in massive packages that if they had just opened them they would know go to the production floor. Then I open the package. Then I have to contact the floor so they can come back and pick it up. We are in separate buildings.

    I also work where I would never have something personally delivered to me, so I’m guessing we aren’t in the same boat.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      It’s not necessarily that the OP is having personal items delivered. It could be personal BUSINESS things. For example, for a while someone was opening some of our mail. It wasn’t every time, but some of the checks from our clients would be opened. But it wasn’t just opened, it was tore across the top. They even tore the check themselves because they weren’t using any sort of letter opening tool.

    2. EvilQueenRegina*

      Reminds me a bit of the time in my old job, when we were always being offered the stationery deliveries for my coworker’s previous team (they hadn’t bothered changing the name on the account when she left).

      Initially, it had just been a case of reception (in her former team’s building – we were in a different one) calling her saying the boxes were down there, and whoever answered would just say “No, that’s for Llama Grooming”. Then Llama Grooming moved to a different building, and the first time a delivery arrived, whoever intercepted it in the new building said “Winifred Sanderson? She works in the Salem office, you’ll need to take that there.” So the delivery came to Salem, I had to tell our reception I wasn’t accepting it because it was Llama Grooming’s, I had the delivery driver on the phone asking me whether I actually wanted my delivery, and I had to keep saying over and over that it wasn’t for me or Winifred and had to go back to Llama Grooming.

      Llama Grooming updated their account information after that.

  18. Tradd*

    Letter 1 – I’m not much of a sports fan, but I consider it wild that people expect the office to be closed because they’ll be partying too hard the night before. Priorities out of wack! Take PTO if needed.

    Letter 4 – years ago I worked at a place where it was accepted for employees to get their personal packages delivered to the office. Nothing big, just Amazon small boxes and the like. My toxic manager got it into her head that any packages for our department were to be delivered to her first and she opened them! She would then give them to the employees in our dept. We shut that down very quickly. HR told her to stop.

    1. Riley*

      Life is more than work. Sportsball is a big source of fun and camaraderie for a lot of people, and “their” team making it all the way to a final competition is infrequent and exciting. It’s a good excuse for a party. I think people who want the next day off have their priorities in the right place.

      1. Anon4This*

        And they are welcome to take off using PTO. But they aren’t entitled to work being closed and giving them a freebie day.

  19. Retired-ish*

    Re: The Super Bowl
    Sigh, as a native of Detroit, we have never had to wonder about this question.
    Until this year.
    This year, the Detroit Lions were “this close” for the first time in my lifetime (I’m in my early 60s) and closed with its best season ever.
    I’m not even a football fan at all and I was getting caught up in the hype. There has been a T-shirt floating around: The Detroit Lions: We almost always almost win.
    Next year, we’ll be the ones asking this question — I hope.

    1. Better luck next time*

      sorry for the double post. it didn’t seem to “take” the first time…
      just like the Lions. LoL!

    2. Sans Serif*

      I loved the Lions story last year and this year – from a long-time bad team to now one of the best teams in the league. I’m an Eagles fan, but other than the Eagles, the team I was most rooting for to make the Super Bowl was the Lions. An Eagle-Lions NFC championship game would have been amazing!

    3. Goldfeesh*

      I was hoping you guys would do it this year. I don’t normally follow the Lions but I love David Montgomery as he played for my college team. I’m so glad he’s with you guys instead of Chicago.

  20. Better luck next year*

    Re: The Super Bowl
    Sigh, as a native of Detroit, we have never had to wonder about this question.
    Until this year.
    This year, the Detroit Lions were “this close” for the first time in my lifetime (I’m in my early 60s) and closed with its best season ever.
    I’m not even a football fan at all and I was getting caught up in the hype. There has been a T-shirt floating around: The Detroit Lions: We almost always almost win.
    Next year, we’ll be the ones asking this question — I hope.

  21. Someone*

    LW2, I think that you are overreacting to this and I also think that your expectations are a bit off. You say you had a pleasant conversation with him, and when he contacted you it doesn’t sound like he said anything offensive or creepy. Why would you need to stay away from this person at all costs? Surely it must be allowed to express romantic interest to someone in a polite way.

    Where I think your expectations are off is where you say that the café staff should know about your partner and inform that guy about them. I get that you are a regular but probably they have a lot of regulars that they have friendly interactions with, but it’s a bit much to assume they would keep track of everyone’s relationship status.

    In your shoes I may or may not write back to say you’re not interested, and leave it at that. This is not a drama and I wonder why you seem to want to make it into one?

    1. Nonsense pt2*

      Surely it must be allowed to express romantic interest to someone in a polite way.

      And LinkedIn is the appropriate venue for this how?

      1. Someone*

        I admit I’m not a big Linkedin person, but yeah, I don’t see the big deal. What is the harm, exactly? It seems like in between the lines the harm would be that it would disrupt her work in some way, but like, how? I could see it if he had shown up during her work presentation holding up a sign asking her out, or something. But I don’t see the harm in this. Question asked, she’s free to ignore it or respond however she wants. How has this caused any trouble for anyone whatsoever?

        1. Nonsense pt2*

          My man, if you can’t understand why a woman would be creeped out by a dude tracking down her work profile based only on her name and a branded shirt to ask her out after only a brief conversation, then there’s nothing I can say to make you understand it.

          2. Heffalump*

            As it happens, I get the LW’s point. But “If you don’t know, I’m not going to tell you” is not helpful, to say the least.

        2. T.N.H*

          It’s super creepy to use the logo on someone’s jacket as a way to track them down and send a message asking for a date. It shows that they don’t have good judgement, which is not what anyone wants in a partner.

        3. fhqwhgads*

          You don’t ask someone out on linked in after a very brief small talk interaction for the same reason you don’t ask someone out at their workplace after a very brief small talk interaction. They’re at work (or on a work-focused platform) for work reasons. Not to get hit on.
          If you don’t know the person well enough to have their contact info yourself, or a social avenue for asking them out, you don’t know them well enough to ask them out.
          For example, if they’d met and chatted again in the cafe on another occasion, and he politely asked if she were single, and accepted her “No”, that would’ve been fine.
          Tracking down via work means is not.

    2. No username*

      Yes – I don’t understand the drama. Just email him back and say not interested. Why would LW2 avoid her coffee shop just in case he’s there.

      1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

        Please consider that women simply do not know how a guy is going to react to rejection. The most pleasant men can turn on a dime. It is an unfortunate current reality. Worse, women are usually expected to manage the man’s feelings, even pre-emptively. If we don’t word the rejection just right, we are being cold, stuck-up or aren’t being clear enough (should he try again).

        Hopefully, this guy will take it in stride, and life goes on. But he also might not.

        1. No username*

          As a woman myself I would have sent a no thanks not interested email. I would have not let it drive me away from my favorite coffee shop. It was one message via LinkedIn. Mildly annoying. He didn’t track down her work email or lurk in her building’s lobby on Monday morning hoping to bump into her.

          1. No username*

            And it’s annoying that anyone disagreeing with the stalker commentary seems to be assumed to be a man in the responses back to them.

        2. ubotie*

          Fellow woman and stalking victim here, who basically can’t ever attend any college alumni events or even have a Facebook* thanks to my stalker. And he still lives in the area. And I work at a building with piss-poor door access security so on the off chance that he finds out where I work, nothing can really stop him from popping by.

          But I also think that the LW should just ignore/delete/block the LinkedIn request and move on. Don’t just stop going to the coffee shop or go total Witness Protection yet. If the guy shows up again there *and tries again*, decline the date (and mention the partner because duh, it’s true–and unfortunately, it is the only way sometimes to get a guy to back off. As annoying as that is).
          If the guy causes a problem, make it the coffee shop’s problem–he’s harassing a customer and that is not okay. Yeah, there’s always the chance that things will escalate. But to be honest, that is also a chance if the LW ever breaks up with their partner. Or they have to fire someone at work. Or get into a disagreement with someone at work. Or a neighbor randomly decides to fixate on them (my stalker was not someone I was ever romantically involved in–he was just a classmate from Stats class. Which I took because it was the only math class available to non-math majors. FML). You never really know what goes on in a person’s head or what might “trigger” someone to be all, “today is the day I fulfill my inner Christian Grey” even to a total stranger.

          *yeah, Facebook is trash now but it still sucks that I was basically cut off from participating in a large part of pop culture because of a dude who thought he was entitled to my time and attention.

          1. No username*

            I’m sorry you have had such a horrible experience. I wasn’t meaning to make light of anyone experiencing stalking.

      2. e271828*

        Because tracking someone down on a **job networking site** after noticing them wearing an employer’s logo in order to send them flirtatious email is creepy. If Mr. Gumption wants to ask the LW out, Mr. Gumption can expend shoe leather and time to visit the coffee shop again, a social non-work space, and make his pitch in person. Stalking a woman to her workplace is not what LinkedIn is for.

    3. bamcheeks*

      Surely it must be allowed to express romantic interest to someone in a polite way.

      You’re saying that LW is being overreacting, but this is a dramatic over-reaction in the opposite direction. Clearly it is “allowed”: nobody’s going to be along to enforce consequences on this guy and take away his talking-to-people-at-cafes or using-LinkedIn-to-hit-on-people privileges. The question is whether LW is entitled to feel irritated and annoyed by people using a work-related professional networking site to hit on her, and she is.

      1. Someone*

        We can feel irritated and annoyed at anything, sure. If being annoyed at something means we need to stay away from, for example, a coffee shop, despite this causing depression (!), then I would say that that’s a big overreaction.

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          Plenty of commenters have said here that they find what this guy did creepy. Lots and lots of women have talked online about how demeaning and creepy they find it to be hit on via LinkedIn. You don’t have to share their view, but that doesn’t mean their feelings are invalid.

          1. bamcheeks*

            How this conversation always goes:

            “I mean, what harm does it do? Got to shoot your shot, right?”
            “It makes us feel creeped out.”
            “We don’t know if you’re going to escalate to violence.”
            “It’s super annoying.”
            “It’s frustrating to think you can’t just have a nice chat without someone deciding it’s a dating opportunity.”
            “It’s gutting to realise someone you thought respected you professionally was just trying to sleep with you.”
            “I’m literally just trying to do my job, and some guy assumes that because I smiled at him I must fancy him.”

            “No, all that’s just women having a shitty experience as a result of my actions, I meant real stuff. Stuff that might affect me.”

    4. Meow*

      Trying to chase people down via LinkedIn is the opposite of polite or appropriate. He could’ve well asked her face to face in person in the cafe.

      1. Artemesia*

        This. Maybe he isn’t a dangerous creep, but this is how a dangerous creep would pursue someone they casually encountered in a coffee shop. A normal person would probably get coffee at this place for awhile in hopes of running into her and then joke ‘would you like to get coffee sometime’ at which point she would say ‘Thanks but I am not interested.’

        He may not BE a dangerous creep, but this is how he would operate if he were.

    5. English Rose*

      What people may not be aware of is that there’s been a dramatic increase on LinkedIn in the last few years with women being approached and harassed there, so there is sensitivity about using LinkedIn this way.

      I agree LW should respond to say not interested and not avoid the coffee shop.

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      The polite way is to ask if OP would like to meet for coffee at this cafe tomorrow, same time, and continue their conversation? And to pay attention to all signs of a soft no.

      Not polite:
      Use any cues (work vest, name tag, etc) to track down the person on their social media. (I believe Dr Nerd Love had one where the guy expected his target, a store clerk, to be impressed that he was able to find her online, and reward his detectival skills with a relationship, and yet she was not.)
      Use any cues to figure out where they live, and then hide behind the mailbox, and then pop out to explain how you worked out where they live and would like to be rewarded with a date.

      1. Someone*

        Sure, but I think many of us don’t always have the courage or spontaneity to say exactly what we should have in a brief moment. I don’t think I’m alone in often walking away from conversations and then realising what I wish that I had said. I don’t see how it’s such a big deal to reach out to someone after, whether it’s romantic interest or something else.

        Nowhere here is it suggested he has popped out from behind a mailbox or in any way insinuated that he should be “rewarded” for finding her.

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          It’s creepy to reach out through a means they didn’t give you.

          Just like he could learn more about her by following her home, and then loitering until she left her house again and jumping out all “Hi! Since you were visible on the public street, it is totally okay for me to learn more about you this way! And now I know where you live!” and that would strike her as creepy and stalkerish. Even if he would, hypothetically, be happy to take no for an answer at this point–as Artemisia says, this is what stalkers do, and so expect to be read as a stalker if you adapt their favored tactics.

          1. Apex Mountain*

            Ok but come on – following someone home and hiding to “surprise” them is much different from finding someone on LI and sending a message.

            To me it seems like the difference between opening up an employee’s pay stub to find their address and go visit them vs a boss sending an after hours email

            1. Jennifer Strange*

              This isn’t a boss sending an after hours email, this is a boss telling someone to leave a note for another employee at the grave of their recently-deceased relative. It’s using a sneaky means of communication to get what you want while ignoring what the other person is actually visiting that place/website for.

        2. bamcheeks*

          I think many of us don’t always have the courage or spontaneity to say exactly what we should have in a brief moment

          So don’t say it? What’s the harm in not saying it? Why’ve you got to overreact by tracking someone down using their LinkedIn? There would be literally no terrible consequences if you just went, “oh well, missed opportunity” and moved on.

          1. JB (not in Houston)*

            Yes, exactly. Why do your feelings of regret trump consideration of how the other person might feel being tracked down and hit on in this manner? Some people wouldn’t mind, but LOTS of women *do* mind, and they haven’t been quiet about it. Why not consider how the other person might feel and chalk it up to a missed opportunity? Or keep your eyes open the next time you’re at the cafe? The OP says they are both regulars, so odds are he could run into her again there sometime.

        3. MigraineMonth*

          He knew he wanted to ask her out already at the end of the conversation (quite possibly at the beginning). He could have asked if she was single. He could have asked for her contact information. He could have asked her to meet him for coffee on Tuesday. If he was too nervous, he could have just waited till he saw her at the coffee shop again to ask her.

          Instead, he:
          => Asked staff at the coffee shop for personal information about her that he chose not to ask her
          => Memorized the company branding on her jacket
          => Used that company information–which she had *not* chosen to share with him in conversation–to find her on a business networking site

          This man is in all likelihood just nervous and didn’t want to be rejected in person. However, from the evidence, at every step he put his own need for comfort and control over the comfort and agency of the woman he was trying to flirt with and that he doesn’t respect the boundary of the information she has chosen to share with him. None of which indicates he’s mature enough to take a rejection well.

      2. Anne Shirley Blythe*

        THIS. ^ Thank heavens for Dr. Nerdlove, my other favorite advice blogger. He gets it, and his site is worth visiting regularly.

    7. Fluffy Fish*

      LW is very calm and reasonable – I see no overreaction. She’s asking what the best way to handle something is not raging at the audacity.

      Linkedin is not a platform to hit on people or ask for dates. It’s perfectly normal and reasonable to be uncomfortable with being hit on through it.

      1. Great Frogs of Literature*

        I think “Do I need to abandon my favorite coffee shop?” is, on the current evidence, a bit of an overreaction. I don’t think “This felt creepy and I am annoyed and freaked out” was an overreaction — just that LW doesn’t need to give up something they enjoy without further evidence that this guy is going to be a problem.

        1. Totally Minnie*

          I mean, if a random stranger I had a 30 second conversation with took it upon himself to internet stalk me, I’d be creeped out enough to consider just not going back to the place where that happened.

          2. Happy meal with extra happy*

            Sending one message on LinkedIn is not internet stalking, and calling it such really diminishes actual stalking/online stalking.

            1. Jennifer Strange*

              Using only a company name on someone’s jacket to track them down on LinkedIn is internet stalking. It doesn’t diminish anything to call it what it is.

            2. Totally Minnie*

              If she had told him her name and he had used that to look her up on social media, I wouldn’t consider that internet stalking. But that’s not what happened. He used the company logo on her clothing to go on an internet expedition to try and find her picture and figure out her name, and then he eventually reached out to her not in a social website, but on a professional networking site. That is Internet stalking and it’s creepy.

              1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

                100%.

                Consider this sidebar. Our current society still favors and values “assertive” and “masculine” behavior. If the genders were reversed in the scenario, the woman would be seen as thirsty and desperate. But a guy doing the same–oh, he wants to get the girl. Attaboy.

                And please don’t think I’m suggesting only men would be praising his behavior. It has seeped into our society. Hallmark could make this the plot of a show, and hardly anyone would bat an eye.

                It’s not a crime to ask someone out. But, as someone suggested earlier, there are better, less invasive ways to do it.

              2. Silver Robin*

                I am entirely in agreement with the guy being inappropriate, but they did actually exchange names according to LW, so he was not actually scrolling through all local employees of X company to match profile photos. He reasonably had first name, location, and company, which can narrow the search significantly.

                Still weird! Still bad form! Should not do!

              3. Bee*

                That IS what happened: she told him her name, and he looked her up on social media. Maybe LinkedIn is the only site he uses, or the only site she uses, or the only one he uses under his real name and he thought it was much less creepy to contact her in a way that gives her all his information. The branded jacket may have helped him narrow the search, but it’s not like he spotted her across the room and found her that way: they had an in-person conversation she enjoyed enough to give him her name.

                1. Moose*

                  “She enjoyed [the conversation] enough to give him her name” is not at all a high bar. Are you supposed to not tell anyone your name unless you’re open to dating them? If I was talking to someone in a coffee shop on the way to work, I would not consider trading names to be consent for that person to use that information to find my LinkedIn and use that to ask me out. I don’t think people (especially women) should have to play defense constantly to avoid getting asked out in professional situations, and it is a strange double standard that people are trying so hard to understand and rationalize the asker’s actions and intentions while also claiming that anything the askee did or said could be taken as romantic interest, and therefore she can’t be upset at anything he did.

              4. It's Me*

                I mean, did he get it only because of her company logo? Or did he simply Google her name and her LI popped up first? I know I don’t have the same privacy settings on my LI that I do on my FB.

        2. Fluffy Fish*

          The point is she is uncomfortable by someone being creepy. Hunting someone down you met once by leveraging their shirt logo is creepy. And please lets not pretend women saying a simple polite “no” isn’t often a dangerous undertaking.

          If you personally would not find it creepy – that’s ok. But it’s not strange or weird or and overreaction that she did.

          She’s not overreacting.

          Filing a restraining order at this point? Overreaction.

          Trying to figure out how to deal with a creepy unwanted advance on a site that it’s inappropriate to use for dating? Completely appropriate reaction.

        3. fhqwhgads*

          I don’t think it’s inherently an overreaction due to the context. She’s not saying “ack now I need to abandon my favorite coffee shop, coffee is ruined forever”. She’s asking for calibration.
          A difficult thing when you start getting creep vibes, but someone hasn’t clearly and obviously crossed into Definitely Stalker territory is you second guess everything. It’s so common. “This felt creepy but if I shrug it off and it goes south, I’ll feel like I was cavaliar and missed the signs and could’ve avoided it!” vs “This felt creepy, I must reinforce the bulwarks!” Or “This felt creepy but now I’m not sure how creepy.”
          Some people will read the encounter described and think “meh, tell him no and move on and if he escalates, deal with that then.” Some will read it and think “don’t take any chances, cut that shit off”. Part of asking Alison is basically saying “which one do you think this is?”
          As someone who has been stalked, and felt that “this seems off” feeling MUCH earlier on, but was convinced “eh, give people a chance”, it’s so so so hard to trust your own instincts at all ever anymore.

    8. CatDude*

      There are ways to express romantic interest in someone in a polite way. Tracking someone down on a professional site based on the clothing they were wearing and asking them out on said site is not one of them. That is, in fact, very creepy.

    9. Jennifer Strange*

      Just because the wording of his message wasn’t offensive or creepy doesn’t mean his actions weren’t. He used one thing he saw on her (her company jacket) to track her down on a platform meant for work connections. Imagine if a bartender checked the ID of someone they thought was attractive, memorized their mailing address, and then sent them flowers (or just showed up at their door!)? This is very similar to that.

    10. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      LW2 is not overreacting to this situation at all. I would hope that the coffee shop staff shut down the guy’s questions about another customer’s relationship status immediately and firmly.

      Whether that happened or not, the combination of asking others about LW2 and using a professional networking site to express romantic interest is inappropriate enough to cause concern about his intentions and his attitudes about people he’s attracted to in general.

      Telling people their uneasiness at being creeped on is overeaction is not a good look.

    11. Silver Robin*

      I think I read LW with a different tone in a couple of places than you did. “Surely I had mentioned my partner and they know, right???” landed less like an actual expectation and more like a panicked facetiousness in the face of awkardness. Inner thoughts going something like: surely – surely! – it would have come up somehow in 2 years? And since I go there often, probably more than once, and they know me so maybe they actually remember stuff about me….right? And then I can avoid the potential awkward of a dude asking me out at my favorite coffee shop and me having to reject him? Maybe? Gahhhh.

      Similarly with “do I have to avoid my favorite cafe for a while?” Yes, it is the most extreme option listed, but 1) it was not “never go back ever” and 2) she is flailing because this is an awkward situation. This particular awkward situation does have the added risk of the guy turning out to be really nasty, because plenty of women have stories about that, so the anxiety about “eeek awkward” spills into “eeek is this a red flag? If it is, is it big enough that I have DO SOMETHING about it? If I do, what do I do???”

    12. ubotie*

      Yeah, I did find it a bit odd that the LW expected the cafe staff to somehow know/remember that 1 customer (out of who knows how many they regularly see) has a partner already *and* to give that info out to another regular customer? Assuming the staff did remember that info, I don’t know that it is actually appropriate to expect cafe staff to run interference like that between customers. They have to see this guy on a regular basis too (likely way more often) AND their livelihood is way more dependent on his demeanor than the LW’s. Even a simple “oh LW actually has a romantic partner already” could lead to all sorts of drama by the guy that a barista doesn’t want to/shouldn’t have to deal with at work–the guy arguing with them, the guy accusing them of lying, the guy trying to dig for even more info, etc. And that’s without getting into technically-unlikely-but-plausible violent scenarios.

      Decline or block, claim you don’t check your LinkedIn that often and decline in real life (including the whole “yeah I do have a partner already” message), move on with your life. If the guy proves troublesome, rope in the cafe then because hello, that affects them too. But immediately jumping to “well now I’m in a Criminal Minds” episode won’t help anyone’s peace of mind (and I say this as a stalking victim who can never again visit their college campus, for starters. Or have a Facebook).

    13. Zephy*

      It is never OK to *track someone down* and ask them on a date, especially using information that was not volunteered to you. Wearing a jacket with an employer’s logo is not volunteering information. Interacting with someone while they are actually *at work* is especially not volunteering information (e.g., if you thought your bank teller was cute, you don’t get to look her up on the bank’s branch website to find out more about her). It’s indefensible.

    14. Observer*

      Surely it must be allowed to express romantic interest to someone in a polite way.

      Not necessarily.

      But in any case, what this guy did was not actually polite. Instead of asking her a polite question her did some digging about her and the messaged her in an inappropriate venue.

    15. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      Oh come on. You weren’t there, you didn’t read the message, but you’re sure she’s overreacting. Because she’s a woman, right? Because every man is entitled to shoot his shot at every woman he wants, under any circumstances. But if anyone says anything, they’re overreacting. They’re full of themselves. He was just kidding!

      Fucks’ sake, men and their apologists are exhausting.

      1. Someone*

        I am a woman and I agree that men can be exhausting! I can, however, only go on what LW describes. She describes the first interaction as pleasant and the second as flirtatious. I must assume that if they were, in her experience, creepy, abusive, threatening or something else in that category, she would have written that. Of course it’s possible that they were and she chose to not provide that information! But that’s not what I can operate based upon, only on the information that she provides.

        And no, I don’t think “every man is entitled to shoot his shot at every woman he wants, under any circumstances”, and it is very disingenuous to claim that I do. I don’t think you should run into the cockpit asking the pilot for a date. I don’t think you should raise your hand at a university lecture asking the professor for a date. Etc etc. But I do think that sending someone a flirty message on social media is completely acceptable. The recipient can choose to accept, decline, or just ignore the message.

        I don’t know that I’d say anyone is “entitled” to it, I don’t think we’re “entitled” to do anything at all on social media really. I’m probably not “entitled” to send a friend request to my aunt, but is it acceptable to do? Yes, I think so.

  22. Dog momma*

    #1. it would be nice if they took PTO. But what happens if the rest call in ” sick”. Is this a business that requires coverage, ie 2 people in office to deal with the daily work/ in case of emergency? How much $ are you going to lose if you have to shut down for the day?
    If you start this ,keep in mind it will be an expectation going forward. You might have them use a vacation day and put this in the holiday rotation if you do that, or ask what holiday they might want to give up .
    idk..I’m in healthcare & people came to work. This would be a vacation day for us & still might not be approved if it was last minute and there wasn’t coverage.

  23. Angstrom*

    #3: Thank you for being blunt about this terrible practice of managing people to fail.
    Far better to manage honestly and if it doesn’t work, there’s nothing wrong with saying “This isn’t working for either of us.” A bad fit is not a crime.

  24. Apex Mountain*

    I don’t think what the guy in #2 did was that bad, and a polite rejection should suffice (of course that’s assuming he’s normal, rational, etc)

    I don’t know if you were joking, but I wouldn’t have expected the staff at the cafe to say anything though – they may not even know you had a partner and/or they might feel it’s not their business.

    1. ecnaseener*

      Well, LW overheard the guy asking the staff whether LW was single. So I doubt they would’ve felt it’s not their business to answer “no, I don’t think she’s single.”

      1. Apex Mountain*

        If I were the staff there and i didn’t really know either of them that well, I don’t think I’d comment on LW’s relationship status just because someone asked me about it. I realize they’re both regular customers but unless LW wanted me to say something I wouldn’t be volunteering her personal info

  25. Curt*

    A story relevant to #1. I grew up in Virginia in the “country”, and at my Mom’s company (manufacturing) so many people called in “sick” the first day of hunting season that the company finally just made it a company holiday.

        1. Sweet Fancy Pancakes*

          Same in Utah when I was growing up. I think they just call it “Fall Recess” now, but when I was a kid it was officially called “Deer Hunt”.

      2. Juicebox Hero*

        In college, I had one professor who, without fail, took the first day of buck season off… except for the year I had his class. It was at 8 am and he was so distracted he could barely speak coherently, let alone teach us anything. Would have been so much better if he’d just hit the woods at dawn…

    2. Smithy*

      Honestly – I think that I’ve seen this as a growing trend with black Friday.

      When I first started working, having to use PTO to take the Friday after Thanksgiving was required. So if you wanted to save your PTO and were in town for Thanksgiving – you’d just plan on going into the office for a snoozy day. Unless it’s retail or a coverage demand job, I’ve seen more and more employers just give the day off to avoid fighting over PTO and basically a lost day for whoever is in the office.

  26. paly*

    For #5, would the OP be able to file for unemployment to recoup some of the lost income as they suffered a loss in income due to no fault of their own?

    (assuming this occurs in USA)

    1. Sloanicota*

      I do think having your hours radically changed such that you lose income is a way to apply for unemployment.

      OP, your boss may in fact be expecting you to quit, or she should. If you have truly made it clear you needed those shifts to earn enough money, she shouldn’t be surprised if you give notice now. At the very least, start looking around, I am still seeing a lot of jobs in healthcare.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        “Constructive dismissal”(or constructive discharge) is what my state’s unemployment office calls it when the employer changes the job so much that the employee has to resign. Sometimes this can be difficult to prove, but I bet assigning you to a new work location 100 miles away would count. And yes, someone who can prove constructive dismissal is eligible for unemployment benefits.

        Also potentially applies to the coworker in #3.

    2. doreen*

      You can apply for unemployment in the US if you are only partially unemployed – but that usually involves either 1) a maximum number of days worked 2) a maximum number of hours worked and/or 3) A maximum number of dollars earned for the week you are claiming benefits. If the sleep shifts were overtime and the LW was still working more than 30 hours/week without those shifts , they wouldn’t be eligible for benefits in my state.

  27. Ganymede II*

    I am more in football/ soccer territory, and during World Cups, employers will often let people out early for a semi-final or final. I don’t think people get the day after off – though they usually take place in summer, and it may be less noticeable if some employees are less productive for a few hours on the Monday morning.

  28. draft lattes*

    I know Philly has a reputation (somewhat exaggerated IMO) for destructive partying after a sports victory (or loss).
    I would like to point out that Philadelphia just had a (medical!) plane literally CRASH into its busiest traffic intersection last Friday night. In addition to the on-plane fatalities, one person was killed on the ground, and at least 24 others were injured (some quite seriously, including a young boy).

    That whole intersection of commercial/retail business and surrounding homes still looks like a literal war zone. It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if post-Super Bowl media footage of fans being outside ANYWHERE on Philly streets shows that area WITHOUT the proper context of “this part of Northeast Philadelphia literally just had a plane drop on them 8 days ago, people are still finding plane debris and DNA* on their cars and property, some of them still can’t access their homes or business.”

    So whether the Iggles win or lose on Sunday, just maybe keep that in mind when you’re watching the news (especially if it’s trash like Fox “News”) and they’re panning across parts of Philly all “ugh look at this city, people have already destroyed it all because of a football game, tsk tsk tsk.” (and if it’s Fox “News,” they’ll be ranting about the medical jet anyway because said jet victims weren’t American. Please keep all the deceased and injured in your thoughts).

    *yes, “DNA” means what you think it means in the context of a plane crash :-( Anyone living there is still being told to call 911 if they find anything like that, so NTSB can add it to their investigation as part of the crash site.

  29. Dr. Rebecca*

    For LW1: I think if Travis Kelce proposes to Taylor Swift during/after the game, you should probably just cancel work the next day. I think it’ll matter more to some people than the actual outcome of the game.

    1. Juicebox Hero*

      We all might need the day off, because the resulting social media supernova would probably tank the entire internet. Anything besides “OMG did you see that ring!” and AI-generated images of what their children would look like as 40-year-old anthro unicorn astronauts, forget it.

  31. RIP Pillowfort*

    OP5- You pretty much laid out your argument for them. Do they want you to keep covering this area 100 miles away? Then they need to get you the extra shifts you need for the travel. Lay that out in plain English for them. Remember: “I can’t do this due to the expenses it’s putting on my family as a result of the lack of shifts you promised.” isn’t a sentence that makes you look bad. It’s your boss’ fault because the promised shifts never showed up. They shouldn’t have promised to you that if they couldn’t make that happen. A more generous take is your boss may be avoiding you because they know they stiffed you and maybe they feel bad about it. But you have a better read on that than I do. They may have set you up to fail and it may be targeted. I’ve seen it in healthcare setting drama from family. Regardless, you have got to advocate for your own well being.

    You can’t travel 100 miles away without more money. If you’re truly just covering there stop covering. Go back to the location where you will get the money you need. They can find someone else to cover.

    1. Lynn Whitehat*

      Yeah, I know it seems like the most obvious thing in the world. But they’re probably not thinking that hard about it.

    2. HonorBox*

      This is a great point. You’re driving 100 miles! There’s cost in that.

      Simply tell them that your compensation, prior to you covering this other location, included these sleep shifts. The pay for those shifts is part of your overall pay, which you count on. As you’re covering this other location, you’re not getting the same compensation. And you’re paying more in transportation costs. So this is actually costing you money.

      Tell your boss that you need to be compensated the same way you were before, plus be reimbursed for mileage, or you’re unable to cover this other location any longer.

    3. Artemesia*

      There are so many health care jobs, I’d be finding a different one. This feels very much like constructive dismissal i.e. the exact circumstance discussed in ‘making a job hard so the person quits.’

  32. terra fina*

    For #3, I have a slightly different perspective. I manage a long-time employee who was never held to account, for more than 20 years. Now they are my problem to manage and believe me when I say they are unmanageable. Stubborn, slow, incurious. The ethos has been to “support one another” (read: excessive handholding, give good review scores anyway to avoid a lawsuit, etc.) I am now much, much too busy for all that, largely because they haven’t been doing their job. I am going to “make their work more difficult” by actually expecting them to do it. By letting them feel the weight of their responsibility. This is overdue, but I am not setting them up for failure – they did that to themselves.

    1. HonorBox*

      I think your perspective is quite different, at least from my read of the letter. It sounds like you’re holding your employee accountable for their work. That might make things more difficult for them because they have to actually do their job. But it isn’t moving the goalposts, which it seems is the situation in the letter. You’re actually setting them up to succeed by holding firm to expectations. Whether or not they actually do is up to them.

    2. ecnaseener*

      And presumably if they continue not to do their work you’ll move toward firing them? If so, your situation isn’t what the letter’s about.

    3. OP #3*

      OP here! Different situation. I would love to see that happening though! Would solve a few issues.

      1. terra fina*

        OK, just checking – is the no possibility that bystanders would have a different perception, given that you have no idea what personnel matters have been discussed with the employee? When you don’t actually manage folks, you really don’t know what you don’t know. Just a possibility.

        1. OP #3*

          My understanding is the person and their work practices are not liked. Nothing they are doing wrong, more along the lines of a clash of personalities. Which makes it all the worse in my head. What if I do something someone doesn’t like?

          1. Enai*

            Yes, I would also worry about that! When your company does $ObviouslyBadThing to some coworker, you know that they will do $BadThing sometimes. What’s to stop them from doing the same to you? I’d even consider leaving, not least because you just noticed that you’re in a toxic office. What else seems normal to your company that is actually wildly unethical or just completely out of the norm? Assuming you’ve worked there for some years, would you even notice or did the company culture warp your perceptions already? At least talk to some friends who work elsewhere to get some sort of reality check.

  33. Pretty as a Princess*

    #1: I lived in Berlin during the Cold War, in a military family.

    I vividly remember one year that the leadership Army gave personnel stationed in Berlin the day after the SuperBowl off.

    The Air Force leadership did not.

    Given the time of day, you can imagine the implications. It was a really nice morale booster for people far away from home.

    Personally, if your business can afford to do it – I would do so and now congratulations you are a cool employer.

    Your first reaction – everyone has plenty of time off – is likely certainly true. But now let’s say that all of them go “ok, we are all taking the day off then.” Then what? You might need to include “day after superbowl” in whatever rotation you have around holiday adjacent time off

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      If a lot of OP’s employees have expressed interest, then this could be a case of a possible valued perk arising naturally in the wild, and granting it would generate good will within the company.

      Some businesses might be expecting things to be slow that day anyway, while some (sports memorabilia vendors) would reasonably expect everyone on deck.

    2. WorkingRachel*

      Came here to say that the Army bases I lived on in Germany in the early 90s gave the day after the Superbowl off. Due to the time difference, people who watched were up super late the day before, and I’m guessing the commanders figured they’d rather give everyone (probably in practice excluding essential workers like medical personnel) the day off than deal with a bunch of “sick” call outs. Although I was a child so I could be wrong on every detail of this!

  34. HonorBox*

    OP3 – I wonder what other bad management practices are being employed. Now that you know this is happening, have you seen other things that give you a sense that management doesn’t actually want to manage? While you say that your experience has otherwise been great, what else might be going on that you haven’t seen?

    Given this poor management practice, I have to wonder if there’s a reason this employee has been struggling. Is their manager giving clear instruction? Are they being held to expectations that are not obvious and communicated to them well? It may well be that this person is just not the right fit for the role and the company. But if that’s the case, you don’t manage that by making their job harder. You have the hard conversation. You let them go if they’re not meeting expectations.

    As @terra fina said above, if “making their job harder” is holding them accountable, then that’s a different story. But even if that’s the case, you still owe someone actual management. You owe them truth. And if they’re not cutting it, you part ways.

  35. Working under my down comforter*

    LW 2: I would still go the shop but be firm with this man that you’re not interested. If need be let the coffee shop staff know what’s going on, but you might can also block him via LinkedIn or change your profile’s visibility settings.

  36. I should really pick a name*

    I’ve got a good rapport with the staff and figured there was no way I hadn’t mentioned my long-term partner at some point over the last two years

    I think it would be pretty inappropriate for the cafe staff to tell a random person your relationship status.

    1. doreen*

      I agree – plus there are so many other factors. Even if the LW mentioned a partner, it’s a bit much to expect the staff to remember that when they are just one of probably dozens of regular customers. Also, just because LW mentioned a partner six months ago doesn’t mean that relationship still exists. I would be surprised if the staff answered anything other than ” I don’t know”

      1. Working under my down comforter*

        Yes, they probably didn’t know or didn’t know what to say to this guy at the moment. They also might not be allowed to share information about their customers or employees. Maybe have a coffee date with your partner here. If this guy sees you with them, he’ll get the hint.

    2. Peter the Bubblehead*

      Likewise, if the other customer did indeed ask the staff, “Is she single?”, the staff could easily equate ‘single’ with ‘not married,’ and no matter how long she and her partner have been together, the coffee shop staff would think of her as single.

      Also, there are way too many guys who view “dating long-term but unmarried” as “There’s still a chance!”

      1. Silver Robin*

        I find that mix up unlikely. The only place that I have encountered using “single” that way is the tax office. In everyday parlance, “single” means “not in a romantic relationship of any kind” or similar and I have never had somebody trip over that meaning.

  37. PercyJax*

    That Super Bowl thing reminds me of a time a few years ago when I was working at a university (not as faculty) and the team of the city we were in won the basketball playoffs. The team was going to be having a parade downtown to celebrate during the week.

    Someone high up at the university (the president? Head of HR? I can’t remember but they had authority) emailed all the staff at the university telling us that anyone who wanted to go to the parade could do so without needing to use PTO, and to just let their manager know. Managers found out about this through the email, too… I suspect they weren’t pleased. Anyway, one of my coworkers took advantage and went.

    A few months later, there was a big, planned climate protest right near the university. I waited for a similar email to come out, and a week before the protest, emailed the office that gave permission to go to the parade asking if a similar policy would be sent out for the climate march. I got some boilerplate answer about how I could use my banked time off if I wanted to go, and how the university supports a lot of research around climate change.

    Needless to say, I was not impressed.

  38. Too Many Years in K12 Ed*

    #3: This is how principals get rid of teachers they don’t like and it irritates me. I’ve seen an incompetent principal use master schedule as a weapon to load up one of the best teachers on campus with 6 preps and classes that weren’t her usual load. The principal did this because the teacher had been absent a lot (cancer treatment) and subs wouldn’t come to our campus because it was so dangerous.

    So glad I don’t work there or for that lunatic anymore. She is literally left with the unhireable bottom feeder teachers – everyone else left for other (not necessarily greener) pastures.

  39. Sneaky Squirrel*

    #1 – If being in “Chiefs territory” meant in downtown Kansas City where they will be having festivities and the small business was small enough where most of its employees have made it known that they’d be taking a PTO day if you didn’t close, there’s a generosity in closing the business and letting staff enjoy the day. But otherwise I can’t imagine the majority of small businesses in Kansas City/Missouri shutting down for a football game, particularly because not everyone is invested in sports.

  40. Somehow I Manage*

    #1 – You know your team and your situation better than anyone does. Are most team members fans, or at least interested? How’s Monday look for your business’s actual work? Would something big be missed if you all weren’t there?

    If you have a team that is largely pretty, or very invested in the game and closing wouldn’t come at a major cost, I’d say close. It is a really cool perk. While it has happened a bunch in the past few years, one additional day of closure every now and again isn’t awful. It’ll give people an opportunity to enjoy the game (though I’m cheering for the Eagles, so I hope they don’t actually enjoy…) and you won’t have a bunch of tired employees who are some sort of hung over (alcohol or food). It’ll be a nice goodwill gesture. And if someone isn’t a huge football fan, they get a free day off. No big deal.

  41. Raven*

    As someone who used to live in Louisville, Kentucky, I’m not at all surprised by the employees’ request. The local school district always gives everyone the day off on Oaks, which is the day before the Kentucky Derby, because too many teachers call out to go otherwise. It’s a very important part of the local culture/economy, so it makes sense.

  42. K in Boston*

    22.6 million people are expected to take off at least some of the Monday after the Super Bowl this year (see Business Wire). That’s 6.7% of the entire American population. For comparison, Asian Americans make up roughly 7% of Americans, Jewish people 2.4%, and Muslims 1.3%. Of course, lunar holidays have yet to take the mantle of any US federal holidays, but a small number of cities and counties have closed for such observances — Being part one of the aforementioned groups, we would be happy to have our fellow NFL Americans join us in celebration of post-sundown holidays ;)

  43. my four cents worth*

    super bowl day off request – i’d say no. if you do it, you’re establishing a precedent and you’ll have to deal with requests every time something special happens. particularly if you have a generous pto policy. that’s what pto is for.

  44. Jen*

    I’ve always thought it would be nice for employers to give everyone a floating holiday to use after one late-Sunday-night event. Super Bowl, the Oscar/Tony/Grammy awards, etc. I would use mine for Wrestlemania, personally. I also think everyone should get an extra paid day off for their birthday.

    I realize this isn’t practical for most workplaces, which is why I don’t own a business.

  45. Ess Ess*

    Years ago I worked for a company that was trying to make an employee quit by making their life miserable at work. They repeatedly deliberately scheduled her for closing shifts that ended around midnight and then schedule her for opening shifts at 4am the next day. I remember being horrified that they were risking her crashing her car from exhaustion driving to/from work and essentially putting her life in danger deliberately.

    1. Sparkles McFadden*

      They don’t think about petty things like the employee being hurt or killed. If that the person did get into an accident, such a boss would think (or even say) “Well, it’s her own fault for not quitting when she should have.”

      It really is horrifying.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      I do appreciate that several states now have minimum hours between closing and opening shifts laws. Probably didn’t at the time, and should be more widespread than it is, but still. Minor progress.

  46. bighairnoheart*

    LW3, I totally agree with your last line, it’s wrong on so many levels!

    I had an old boss who did this to me–doing everything in his power to make my job difficult and treating me poorly so I’d leave on my own, because he couldn’t get approval to fire me without a PIP that he was too lazy to do. Jokes on him though, he did such a good job of tearing me down, that it gave me intense anxiety to apply to other jobs because he made me think I wasn’t qualified to do anything, and I couldn’t afford to leave without another job lined up. So I stayed there LONGER than it would have been if he could have just gotten his shit together, done the PIP, and fired me as soon as he realized he wanted me gone. Thankfully I’m not there anymore (therapy helped a lot with the anxiety and I did find another job eventually!) but it always frustrates me to hear when this happens to other people. It doesn’t benefit anyone!

    1. sofar*

      I hope you got at least some satisfaction about leaving. Good lord.

      I used to work for a place that deliberately put “harder duties outside job description” in PIPs to justify getting rid of people. Management knew the person would quickly fail the PIP that way. I’m talking duties that people didn’t even have training for. I was once asked to put in a ticket to get someone access to something they shouldn’t have even been touching, b/c a manager threw it into their PIP.

      1. bighairnoheart*

        I’m happy to be working elsewhere now, that’s for sure!

        Ugh, your old company’s way of doing this is awful too! I’m glad it’s a former workplace for you, at least.

    2. OP #3*

      My last job started to make my life difficult. I figured out what was going on when I was asked to leave a management meeting as it was a managemnt discussion. But I was part of the management team! They were notorious for one day liking you and the next day making life difficult for a few weeks and then if you didn’t leave firing you. I waited it out and filed for unemployment. They tired to block that but they had no grounds to.

      That place was next level dysfunctional and gave me PTSD!

      This seems to be thru one line of management.

  47. CherryBlossom*

    LW 1: Any chance you can compromise here? If you can’t close entirely, having some leniency on start time, or not penalizing people for taking a sick/vacation day would probably go a long way to establishing goodwill with employees.

    I know some people here are cranky that American Football is even being considered as a good reason for time off, but the truth is sports fandom is way more mainstream, and it’s going to affect a larger amount of the population. I’ve worked at places that gave lots of leeway for the Super Bowl and the World Cup, but I would never expect that same leeway for, say, Comic-Con.

    And to add my own two cents; I don’t much care for American Football or Taylor Swift, but I am so excited to watch Kendrick Lamar’s halftime show. People can be not-sports fans and still be excited for a major event, or at the very least be understanding as to why people like what they like.

    1. Anon4This*

      I’ve worked at places that gave lots of leeway for the Super Bowl and the World Cup, but I would never expect that same leeway for, say, Comic-Con.

      And that’s the problem. It’s not a two-way street.

      People can be not-sports fans and still be excited for a major event, or at the very least be understanding as to why people like what they like.

      Absolutely! It would just be nice if the same could be said for sports fans being understanding as to why people don’t like them.

      1. CherryBlossom*

        Eh, I’d say it’s more of a numbers game than anything. After all, I’ve never seen that leeway for other sports like NBA or Formula 1, purely because The Super Bowl and The World Cup draw more viewers (The World Cup finals tend to garner around 4-5 billion views; half the world’s population).

        I love Comic Con, the Oscars/Grammys/Tonys/Emmys, Fashion Weeks and loads of other cultural touchstone moments, but The Super Bowl and The World Cup dominate by pure numbers.

        1. Anon4This*

          But that’s my point. We are beholden to what the masses have deemed “important” and get no leeway while they get all the leeway they want. If folks want to take off the day after the Superbowl, there is nothing wrong with expecting them to use PTO, the same as I’d have to use PTO if I want to take off the day after an award show or something.

    2. Super Bowl OP*

      Super Bowl OP here. Yes, people can take PTO (I made a longer comment below). I’m just not looking to set a new standard of office-sponsored days off. I am also flexible on start time as long as people are getting their work done.

    1. Phony Genius*

      There was a sports commentator here who did a local TV show every Sunday. He had it built into his contract that he got Oscar night off every year. (Even though it was on a different channel.)

  49. airport gemstone*

    I was recently asked by someone at the bar if we could connect further after our groups were chatting throughout the night. We uncovered we had a business connection at some point, so when he asked for my Insta at the end of the night I said he could look me up on Linkedin.

  50. Bunny Girl*

    I’m still blown away the people would use LinkedIn for anything social. I think it is one of the most user unfriendly sites I’ve ever used and never touch mine.

  51. Elizabeth West*

    Is it me, or is there an increase in people who don’t think what the coffee shop guy did was creepy? Normally for a post like that the entire commentariat would be shuddering in unison. I find this disconcerting.

    Nevertheless, I agree with this comment:

    Working under my down comforter*
    February 5, 2025 at 8:28 am
    LW 2: I would still go the shop but be firm with this man that you’re not interested. If need be let the coffee shop staff know what’s going on, but you might can also block him via LinkedIn or change your profile’s visibility settings.

    1. WellRed*

      Nah, one bad move doesn’t make him a stalker. There’s nothing to alert the coffee shop staff to at this point and if OP could take a little agency for herself, so much the better.

    2. tabloidtainted*

      Using LinkedIn to send a flirty message asking someone out is, at worst, poor judgment. It is not creepy. As the LW notes, it’s okay to shoot your shot. He just chose the wrong forum.

      1. Dahlia*

        There are dozens of people on here saying we find it creepy, and would find it creepy if done to us.

        The LW also implies that he could ONLY find her because of her company branded jacket. That’s weird.

  52. hohumdrum*

    Ok so I fully know this is a comment that reads as “weirdo crank” but one of the reasons I don’t care for sports generally is the vibe people in really sporty areas give off that sports are of universal interest to everyone in a way other forms of culture are not, and it creates both weird entitlement and also they get really weird sometimes if you’re like “yeah no I don’t watch the Super Bowl” and will act like you said something wildly anti-social.

    I would honestly get so pissed if if I was out running errands or something and various businesses were closed under the impression we all care deeply about who wins football and I must be at home celebrating as well. I think if individuals want to use their leave time because they love sports that’s very sweet and they should! But asking it to be a company wide thing is obnoxious imo.

    1. Peter the Bubblehead*

      I have never been interested in the Super Bowl. In my college years, my friends and I would drive into Manhatten on Superbowl Sunday and head to Greenwich Village to go eat at Gray’s Papaya – 2 hot dogs and a medium fruit drink for $2.50! The island seemed deserted – there was no traffic and parking spaces aplenty in the Village as it seemed the rest of humanity was holed up in sports bars of friends houses for Super Bowl parties.

      One of my favorite memories of the past.

      1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

        I love going to dinner on Super Bowl night with friends who also don’t care about the game! We find a restaurant without TVs and it’s always very mellow. I do look up who won before going into work on Monday because I don’t want to see uninformed, but this is the only bit of Super Bowl media I consume. I do watch the Puppy Bowl, though!

    3. WellRed*

      The business may be closed because it wants to be closed. They are allowed to do that, no? You’re assuming something you can’t possibly know and taking offense for no reason. I say thus as someone who doesn’t care about sports.

      1. hohumdrum*

        I am responding to the hypothetical of LW1’s question- should they give everyone the day off. In that context, if I were a consumer of their business and they shut down for the super bowl I would find that annoying.

        Having grown up in a very sporty area I can say people do sometimes shut down in celebration for certain games, and communicate that to the public via signage or social media. I have sometimes been inconvenienced by those choices, and felt annoyed.

        But no, I am not suggesting I wander around during the super bowl noting which laundromats are closed and cursing sports, I was responding specifically to hypothetical idea of LW1’s workplace closing directly for the super bowl.

  53. Peter the Bubblehead*

    #1 – Every year around this time the radio shows talk about the ‘growing’ movement to have the government declare the Monday after the Super Bowl a national holiday.

    Every year the same thing happens. We have 11 National Holidays a year (the newest one – Juneteenth – was added by Biden in 2022), the Super Bowl does not qualify as a holiday. If you need the day off because you stayed up too late or drank too much, that’s on you, take a sick day or PTO.

    2. Phony Genius*

      The NFL commissioner is talking about adding an extra game to the schedule some time around the end of this decade. That would probably shift the Super Bowl to the weekend of Washington’s Birthday (the “official” name of the federal holiday), making this debate moot.

  54. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    #2 Urg why are men like this??? (Lets be honest it’s mostly men who do this) Many a good cashier would have shot down that guy when he asked if the OP was single. They don’t know your situation. Even if you have mentioned a partner in the past it’s hard to remember every detail of every customer. I would have said “Why are you asking me?”. That being said don’t take it out on the cashier or the cafe. Since you say you have a friendly relationship with the staff next time you go in I would mention it, just in an off hand way like do you remember that guy the other day I was in. He asked me out on LinkedIn. How creepy!” That way if he gets creepy in the coffee shop they know the situation.
    #3 been the coworker in this situating (although I wasn’t low performance). It sucks and it’s gaslighting. I thought I was doing everything right, and then finally they fire me.
    #4 Find out what the mail policy is at your office. But because you are writing I bet that this person is not supposed to be opening items. If she is supposed to open items I would ask her not too but point to a reason why this is problematic. Like papers are ripped or you can’t read the return address, you are afraid of packing slips getting lost, etc.

  55. Pizza Rat*

    If the Superbowl is suddenly a holiday that needs a recovery day, then I want one for the last game of the MLB World Series and the final match of the World Cup (both men’s and women’s).

    1. CherryBlossom*

      I wouldn’t be surprised if the World Cup Final year turns out to be a huge point of contention on this site, considering USA is hosting (along with Canada and Mexico, but we’re getting the lion’s share of matches).

      I didn’t realize how anti-sport a lot of commenters on AAM were, but I’m sure it’s going to come up a lot more next year, so I guess I’ll brace myself for that.

  56. Riley*

    “ Is this a normal thing to do? Is this just bad management practice?”

    Yes, and yes! This is one manifestation of the delightful practice of managing out (popularly referenced in this comment section). It is abhorrent and is the sign of somebody who just cannot manage. If you are ever in a position to be dealing with a low performer, I encourage you to make other choices when it comes to managing them.

  57. LadyInSTEM*

    I’ve also been asked out on LinkedIn. We met once in person for a training and he had ample opportunity to ask me out in person…
    My response: Hi [name]! Please stop using LinkedIn to hit on people

  58. ID Gal*

    Cleveland Browns fan here – I think I can speak for all of Cleveland when I say that ALL business activity will cease for 24 hours when (not if) we are in the Super Bowl.

  59. dulcinea47*

    Don’t give the fans the day after the superbowl off unless you also plan to give them the day off for the parade, b/c they’re going to want that too. (yeah, I’m assuming a chiefs win. I’m also from the KC area.)

    1. bamcheeks*

      *hollow laughter* this is exactly what I was talking about in a comment above– “give me one reason why this is bad” *dozens of women explaining why it feels super shitty for us* “no, I mean something I care about.”

    2. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

      Not exceptional looking so it’s never happened to me, but LI in general- blah. I’m only keeping it so I don’t have to transfer a bunch of contacts. Once people decided it wasn’t enough to put their politics on FB, IG, Twix, Grindr, in their Christmas card and every other damn thing I use it as a last resort to find someone.

  61. I Promise I’m Not Bitter My Team Is Out*

    Re: the Superbowl: Yeah, special events that aren’t official holidays are what PTO/annual leave is for. If your workplace isn’t providing some crucial public service, you could call a “2-hour delay” start time on Monday, but that’s less about being nice and more about giving in to the reality that it wouldn’t have been a productive morning anyway, and it’s a small enough concession that it shouldn’t provoke cries of unfairness from employees whose interests lie elsewhere (I’d be one of those, haha! You’d have me as a thorn in your side all year arguing that if you gave a full day off for the Superbowl, we should close on Election Day!)

    I’d encourage people who ask for the day off to use PTO: “Cool, sounds like you’re a serious fan! I see no reason why you can’t take leave that day since you’ve got enough banked up. We’ll manage! Thanks for planning in advance, and enjoy!”

    The exception would be if public infrastructure ground to a halt on Monday and you had to call a full closure, but you’d make that call like calling a snow day—only when you have strong evidence that it won’t be safe or possible for people to venture out, not before, right?

  63. Super Bowl OP*

    Hi, Super Bowl OP here. (Thanks, Alison, for taking my question!)

    In response to some of the questions, our offices and my colleagues’ commutes don’t come anywhere near the parade route. I am very open to people taking PTO on Monday. In fact, I’ve never turned down a PTO request. My colleagues receive 6+ weeks of PTO (between sick and vacation time), plus holidays.

    I don’t want to set standards of additional “expected” days off. I think that sometimes people need to use PTO when they want to take a day off, rather than rely on their employer to add a day. Thanks for everyone’s comments!

    1. Lily Potter*

      If you’re giving six weeks of PTO – yeah, no need to give another freebie. But for that extra piece of information, I was going to suggest that you give the day off with an explicit instruction that it’s a one-shot deal and that it’s NOT going to happen every year in the future.

      I live in a city that regularly experiences snow and ice. Schools are far more likely to close for cold conditions than for snow and ice; the streets are generally passable quickly and people generally know how to drive in snow/ice. Many years ago we had a HUGE snowstorm, truly a once-in-a-hundred-years deal. The only people that could get to work were people who lived very close by and could walk/snowshoe or who had access to large vehicles. The owner of the business closed for the day, but made it perfectly clear that closing was ALSO a once-in-a-hundred-years deal and to not expect it to happen again in the future. Yes, we got paid and people who managed to get there only to be sent home got a couple of extra hours of comp time. Seemed fair.

      1. Greg*

        Given that the Chiefs have the best player in the league and may be on the verge of winning their third consecutive Super Bowl, it MAY happen every year in the future.

        Incidentally, a few years ago the NFL went from a 16-game season to 17 games, and the owners have made it very clear they would like to add an 18th. That’s a really bad idea for many reasons, but one silver lining is that it would extend Super Bowl Sunday to President’s Weekend, and then we’d all get the next day off

  64. Hey Ms!*

    If businesses start closing for the Superb Owl, then they should close the day after the Tony’s, or the day after a local Taylor Swift concert. If we support sports like that, let’s support the arts!

  65. Jonathan MacKay*

    Being a Torontonian… on the off chance we make it to the Stanley Cup Final this year, I wonder how many people will be wanting time off at that point. For that matter, I would not be terribly surprised if the contingency planning involves evacuation – because if they win it’ll be a massive celebration…. if they lose…. the riots Vancouver had will look like a flash mob.

    ((If they make it to the final, it’ll be a miracle, anyway!))

  66. LoraC*

    Related to using LinkedIn for romance, several of my male engineering friends have been approached on LinkedIn by matchmaking agencies. It’s quite funny. They’ll get a message from a matchmaker saying it looks like they have a promising career at Famous Tech Company and would they be interested in using their services to find a partner. And that they’ve successfully paired up X number of people.

  68. Sharon*

    LW5 – If I understand this correctly, you have been asked to regularly work in a different location 100 miles away. It would be entirely reasonable to ask your manager if you can be reimbursed for mileage/travel. I think focusing on the sleep shifts is beside the point. The point is your job asked you to take on new/different duties, and you can’t afford and shouldn’t have to pay more out of pocket to do so.

  69. thr33p3at*

    Kansas Citian here! In my experience, closures are very dependent on the workplace. In 2020, I don’t think *anyone* I knew went to work on the day after the Superbowl, or the day of the victory parade. In 2023 and 2024, it was more common to go to work the day after the Superbowl, but most people I know said their offices closed on parade day, and all my friends’ kids’ schools allowed unexcused absences.

    Also, for what it’s worth: The company I work for (remotely) isn’t based in KC, but I have been encouraged to take flex time if I want to, in order to participate in the parade. I was actually out of state during last year’s parade and my manager encouraged me to take PTO/rearrange my travel if needed, so I could attend!

    I understand the impulse to be mean about Sportsball, and to pick on Sportsball Enjoyers. But as someone who grew up in an absolute DROUGHT of KC victories, and who has since been able to see her parents and grandparents break down in tears as the teams they’ve rooted for over decades FINALLY win…I really appreciate that my work team has been nothing but supportive. It’s “just a game,” yeah. But it’s also deeply personal, inspiring, makes me feel connected to my broader community. My family and my neighbors are W A Y more important to me than work could ever be. I’m truly blessed that my coworkers and managers have always agreed with that.

  70. cncx*

    From a frequent Super Bowl host city and live in Europe now. In the office jobs I have had back home (which was before the pandemic and before home office was a thing), while offices didn’t close close there was an understanding that the day after the Super Bowl was gonna be light and firefighting only and that people living in or commuting through parade routes got some extra understanding, day waived without using pto, stay home but reachable, etc. Here for the office jobs where I live now the World Cup vibes are similar- people who don’t take PTO and come in aren’t expected to be employees of the year, big Hold Down the Fort energy.

  71. Patty O. Furniture*

    #3 Hoo boy, I’ve been talking with former colleagues who are being ‘managed out’ this way lately, via straight abuse, insults and gaslighting. I can confirm this boss also does a zillion other shady things, and values employees 0%. It’s a tricky situation, because if you speak up, you could be the next target. Remember: HR is not your friend on this since they’re letting it happen. Get outta there!

  73. Veryanon*

    We just had a pep rally at my office (GO BIRDS) so I fully anticipate that we will at least open late on Monday morning. Let’s hope it’s because everyone was out celebrating!

  74. Ms. Whatsit*

    Relevant to LW4, I have employer-provided housing, and it was recommended to us to use our workplace rather than that housing for mail (which is good for packages, etc.). Generally, no problems with this. Whether an accident or deliberate, I did have one package opened a couple months ago—Alison’s book on management at nonprofits! Tbh if it sent a message, good—we’re very much in the “good people who think accountability is mean” range of leadership. :-)

  75. Raida*

    1. Should we give everyone the day after the Super Bowl off?

    Since it’s something that people say they want…

    I would be explicit: No meetings will be scheduled for Day After Super Bowl, any leave requests for the day will be approved. No additional PTO is being provided, if you want to take the day off then you need to use your own PTO/Flex/ADO.

  76. Raida*

    5. The sleep shifts I depend on for income have been taken away

    Mate, go talk to your boss immediately.
    Lay out your income loss as a percentage and a dollar figure.
    Then show it once the driving cost is included.
    Tell them, explicitly, “I cannot afford to do this job without the sleep shifts. I took on this role *only* because you stated I would still have sleep shifts. Am I getting sleep shifts yes or no? If no, I need to find a different job, and honestly I should have done that two months ago. If yes, please show me the schedule so I don’t go another month into the red.”

  77. Anony3564*

    re: Coworker is opening mail and packages addressed to me

    I use to work for a very large fortune 500 company. Any packages that were sent to an employee gets opened by the mailroom staff. I was taken aback at first but I guess it makes sense because it is being mailed to company property. I agree with Alison that it should be a designated team or employee not some random coworker though.

  78. Sparrow*

    One thing I will say about LW#1 is: depending on how small the business is and how many people would be out, it could be worth considering if it may make more sense to just close the office for the day. Like, if you have an office of 30 people and 4 of them want to be out, closing the whole office probably does not make sense. But if you have an office of 10 people and 8 of them want to be out, I do think it’s worth considering if the 2 people remaining in the office would be able to keep up the normal standard of work with everyone else out. If the majority of the office would be out, then just closing the office for the day could have the positive impacts of 1) boosting the goodwill/morale of the employees who wanted to be out for the superbowl and 2) boosting the goodwill/morale of the other employees, who get a free day off and also won’t be expected to cover for their coworkers.

    And to note here: I am not a football person at all and I can’t remember the last time I watched the Superbowl. But I do know a lot of people who loooove football, and from all I’ve seen, watching the Superbowl isn’t just about the actual sports game itself—it’s about community, and having a chance to come together with friends/family (some of whom you may not see often) to spend the day together bonding over something you all love. I think things like that are one of the best parts of being human, and I do think that it’s nice for workplaces to accommodate those when possible.

  79. KTBrd*

    I worked a retail job when our city hosted the Super Bowl. We didn’t close, but our store was scheduled to do inventory the Monday immediately after (to avoid closing the store, we had to arrive at 5 am for inventory) but corporate shuffled the schedule and let us do it Wednesday instead. That felt extremely reasonable to me!

Comments are closed.