an open thread for federal workers (and others affected by all this)

by Alison Green on March 6, 2025

Okay, federal workers and others affected by All This, you asked for an open thread to talk about what’s happening, and here it is. Have at it.

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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A reminder that this is not a space to opine on what you personally think about the cuts; this is a space for people to talk about how they’re being affected by them. Comments that are simply looking to debate the cuts will be removed as off-topic.

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  2. Sloanicota*

    If you’re not already aware of the FedNews subreddit, it’s one I follow closely (and have gotten ahead of the news several times via people’s insider posts on what’s happening in different agencies) and may be great for people who want to go further in-depth beyond this thread or find community. You don’t have to have an account to read the threads, just to post. (Caveat that it is reddit, so obviously don’t trust blindly and do verify). https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/

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    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      That’s where I first heard about OPM changing their tune to say that firing all probationary employees was discretionary, not required.

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    2. JustaClarifier*

      I think it’s worth calling out that the fednews subreddit has been censored recently. r/feddiscussion has more unfettered conversations though there are less people there.

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  3. SoonToBeEsquire*

    As a federal worker who has been with my agency for 6 years as of this week I just want to say it is absolutely crazy how Trump and republicans have seemingly managed to create a narrative that we are the enemies when they have worked for decades to destroy, defund, and privatize government to benefit their billionaire friends and donors. Is there some waste in the federal government? Sure! I can guarantee you though the issue is NOT federal employees.

    The past few weeks have been exhausting to say the least and for me it isn’t even really about the 5 bullet points email. It’s more so the concerted effort to traumatize federal employees and the inhumane nature at which we are being handled. Having to come to work every day worried about whether you’ll have a job or be able to provide for your family is absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention that there are thousands of probationary employees who have been fired based on poor performance that has not only NOT been documented but is the exact opposite of the MULTIPLE evals federal employees get every year. Also, just to clarify one point that I see very often on the internet….probation in terms of federal employment has nothing to do with performance. Employees can be on probation because they are brand new to federal service BUT also if they changed job series, were promoted, or even changed agencies. There are people who have worked for the federal government for 15, 20 years who changed roles and were illegally fired because they hadn’t finished the new probation term.

    It’s almost like Trump and republicans forget that federal employees are taxpayers and voters as well. Many of us have taken pay cuts or made sacrifice to work in public service. All I’m asking for is that we at least be treated with dignity and respect and not made out to be some deep state bureaucrats from the swamp.

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    1. Lucy P*

      Thank you for clarifying on the probation. It’s a question I’ve asked many times, but no one seemed to know the answer until now.

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      1. Momma Bear*

        That’s an aspect that drives me bananas. People don’t understand that the probationary period could be years and it could simply be that someone was *promoted* to a new role or transferred to another agency. People often move around agencies. Firing a GS15 because they took a lateral is ridiculous. The idea that feds aren’t reviewed or don’t do regular reporting is also nonsense. Deliverables are a thing, and so are NDAs, security clearances, and need-t0-know. I feel so badly for those affected because it’s not actually about *you*.

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      2. Cascadia*

        It’s my understanding that the probationary period is for all employees who are new to their ‘role’ and lasts for a full year. So, if you are new to the federal workforce within the past year, or if you got a promotion in the past year, or if you switched to a different job within the past year – these are now all employees on ‘probation’.
        One of the park rangers I heard quoted had been a full time park ranger in his area for 10 years and was recently promoted to head park ranger, and then was fired because he was under ‘probation’. Obviously he is doing great at his job if he was just promoted! Now that ranger district has lost someone with 10 years experience! ugh. It’s so short-sighted.

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    2. Danielle K.*

      Virtual hug and solidarity from this nonprofit employee who’s having her career villainized too.

      The nonprofit I work at is involved in special education advocacy and Trump’s about to issue an Executive Order to disband the Department of Education (Per CNN).

      We know he can’t do that by EO but congress can pass laws that can.

      *Sigh*

      Yesterday, my friend Vu Le said “The powerful do not attack the inconsequential”.
      That’s what’s getting me through today. Our work is needed & accomplishing enough to tick you know who off.

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      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Just wanted to chime in to say that I love Vu Le. I started reading his blog a couple of years ago when I worked at a nonprofit. He’s great.

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    3. Mindi*

      I’m so sorry this has become your reality. SO much of what this administration is doing is cruel and dehumanizing. I hate everything about it and keep wondering when some actual leaders are going to stand up and do something about it.

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    4. Inflatable Unicorn*

      Apparently the Heritage Foundation wants Federal workers to be traumatized (which they’re getting) and vilified (which they are getting the exact opposite of).

      But I’ve noticed that the cruelty is very much the point with this administration, even moreso than before. Probationary employees are being told they’re not performing well. Journalists who push back are told they have “childhood trauma” or have “committed a crime.” Even back during the campaign, a parks worker doing her job was depicted as “an individual clearly having a mental crisis.” There’s simply no low too low anymore.

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      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        And right here, folks, is the very definition of gaslighting. And it’s every bit as disgusting and appalling as you’d think it’d be.

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    5. used to be a tester*

      Just wanted to send some love and support from up here in Canada! We’re getting some of that traumatizing and confusing narrative you are – one day the US and Canada were partners, friends, and allies, and apparently now we’re your enemies and should be girding our loins for a possible invasion.

      Wishing all the best for you and for all of us.

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      1. Current Federal Employee (whee!)*

        From those of us in the US to those of you in Canada and Mexico, a deep and profound apology. You didn’t deserve this, and I’m so sorry that our mess is affecting you.

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    6. JustCuz*

      Yes the percentage of the population employed by the federal government was already bottomed out long before this current ridiculousness. Take a look at the graph in the link below that shows to drop in the percentage of federal workers since before 1940. All of that is due to the long drawn out process of eliminating safety nets the government had in place to actually support and help its people. Now we are barely paying any workers.

      I have links below worth looking at. One shows percentage of federal employees over the years. The other shows government spending. This is free public data the government puts out. This is how brain washed people are. (if you don’t trust the links, you can pull the raw data yourself and run it. its just easier for me to provide these links.)

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      2. Rex Libris*

        I saw an article recently that argued very cogently that the real reason for any government inefficiency or ineffectiveness is that our federal workforce when compared to GDP has actually been understaffed since Reagan.

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        1. TrippedAMean*

          This is exactly what I have been telling everyone. I work alongside a lot of federal workers and the only reason most of them can’t get work done faster is because they have too much to do and not enough people to do it.

          Which, I’d add, is all Congress’ fault – they like to pass laws and then provide insufficient funding to actually uphold those laws.

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      3. AnotherOne*

        I’m not a federal worker but I get so frustrated when it’s firing federal workers is ‘elimating waste’ but, at the same time, they are discussing privatizing that work.

        Because private companies are going to not take a profit? Are going to put more money back into the economy?

        I’m not an economist but that just doesn’t make sense to me.

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        1. mlem*

          Privatization is alleged to be more cost-effective because businesses are supposed to have competitive pressures that incentivize cost-cutting.

          Proponents very much want you to forget that private businesses are expected to generate profit for shareholders (which adds cost), while many or most public services are inherently not profitable. That sets aside monopolization forces by which private actors are able to eliminate competition and then increase that profit pressure.

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          1. Current Federal Employee (whee!)*

            Yes, the govt s about infrastructure, not selling goods and services. We make it possible for those goods and services to be sold, but you don’t make money directly on building an interstate or financially supporting veterans and the elderly, or predicting hurricanes and volcano eruptions. To say nothing of clean water and food safety inspection! Those are the things you need to be able to make profits, but they aren’t profitable in and of themselves.

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            1. Nova5155*

              Hmm… clean water, food safety, etc regulations were created *because* private business couldn’t be trusted not to dump chemicals or lie about poison in food. So we should definitely let these companies police themselves. What could possibly go wrong?

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          2. cuvent*

            I’m curious to hear more about this because this phrase “many or most public services are inherently not profitable” truly piqued my interest.

            If something like health care can be extremely profitable, I shudder to think of the implications of entities like police, fire, child and family services, and many others moving to privatization. Could the argument be made that many or most public services *could* become profitable to someone who was ambitious enough?

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            1. Bitter*

              There are many countries where being a police officer can be very profitable indeed. They are not happy places for ordinary citizens, though.

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          3. RC*

            “Privatization is more cost-effective… profit for shareholders”

            *stares in Boeing*

            Sure, what could possibly go wrong, right?

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          4. Dinwar*

            Certain things are necessary but not profitable, though. A police department run as a for-profit institution is tyranny. A military run as a for-profit institution is pretty much the definition of an empire (in the technical, historian use). Major scientific research must be conducted if we’re going to keep competitive, economically and militarily, but the beneficiaries will be our great-grandchildren. Even Ayn Rand (in “Ethics of Emergencies”) acknowledged that in dire circumstances (and a global pandemic certainly qualified; one of her examples was a public health crisis) normal rules of society get superseded and someone has to take charge.

            Can more things be privatized? Sure, absolutely! And the thing is, we have a good template for this process. Look at mail. FedEx, UPS, and others have taken over a huge portion of mail delivery services. We didn’t gut the Post Office without regard for the consequences, folks established competing services that worked better. Or, look at space. NASA was necessary to get us into space, but now that we’re there it makes sense to have companies utilizing established technology (despite SpaceX’s claims 99% of the R&D work was done in the 1950s-1990s, they’re just tweaking it) to do routine work. Even a lot of compliance inspection is done privately, within the firm, with oversight agencies having access to records and performing inspections. And some cases, like environmental remediation, work better in the private sector–the incentive to do it for a profit leads to efficiencies while still getting the job done.

            I’m all in favor of limiting the scope of the government (I cited Ayn Rand, for crying out loud!). But there’s a right and a wrong way to do it.

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            1. Mockingjay*

              The issue with privatization of public services is that “unprofitable” sectors will not be served. I live in the rural mountains and the Post Office is the lifeblood of the community. We are getting fiber internet finally, because Biden pushed through the Infrastructure Act. Areas with small or poor populations or high costs to provide services (difficult terrain, distances, etc.) will be left out.

              I’d rather give my tax dollars to NASA which uses it for the advancement of sciences and the enrichment of knowledge and provides that info to the public, than to SpaceX which has the dubious distinction of launching a Tesla into orbit.

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        2. TechWorker*

          This is such a good point and doesn’t get said enough. Private companies ‘have’ to make profit and where is it going? Not back to the government that’s for sure…

          In the U.K. we have had multiple failed privitisations where all that happens is the private companies pick and choose the profitable bits and dump the less profitable bits back on the government when they can’t make money off them.

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        3. Menace to Sobriety*

          Well to put that in perspective, I am a federal contractor for DoD. My husband and son are both Federal Civilians for DoD. We are all in roughly the same career field–let’s say IT. My husband was a contractor for 18 years before becoming a Civilian a few years ago . He took a $36K paycut to take that job…for “the stability” (we plan, God laughs). I make about $40K more than he or my son (who has been a DoD Civilian for 13 years). So privatization will almost certainly RAISE the costs of those positions because while they won’t be paying out for medical benefits, etc… they WILL be paying “wrap rates” to cover the company paying for those things as well as ensuring a profit.

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    7. Dinwar*

      “It’s more so the concerted effort to traumatize federal employees and the inhumane nature at which we are being handled.”

      It’s part of the plan, I think. I’ve read that Return-To-Office mandates are soft layoffs. Executives know that they’re unpopular, don’t increase collaboration, and generally do not do anything beneficial for the company; they don’t care, because the point is to reduce staffing costs by making conditions bad enough that people jump ship.

      By making pretty much every error a manager can make, they’re attempting to make you leave yourself, rather than firing you. Not entirely sure why that’s the case (I can speculate, but this isn’t the place), but that seems to be the only explanation for the insanity.

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      1. Current Federal Employee (whee!)*

        The president explicitly said that he’s introducing RTO to encourage attrition, so there’s that.

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      2. Z Fed*

        Go to an office within 50 miles of your home to do your job with your virtual colleagues the same way you used to do in your home office through teams meetings, chats, email.

        Now the government must provide chair, desk, monitor, keyboard, mouse, headphones/mic, electricity, and internet bandwidth. Before the employee sucked up those costs. Now the government pays for it.

        And it’s worse because you’re probably in a cubical farm with lots of other people taking phone calls too instead of in your quiet home office.

        There is no logic.

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        1. frustrated worker*

          In my Federal agency people returning to some offices don’t have space and there is not money to provide equipment.

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    9. Head Sheep Counter*

      I’ve realized that somehow the public has gotten… gullible. Perhaps they always were but now its visible and impactful. To hold the idea that “Fed Workers” are the devil but that Uncle Bob who works for the post office/FDA/USDA is a good guy deserving a solid job… is a dichotomy that many don’t question. Add to the fact that due to the rules and regulations we actually can’t have fed workers doing information campaigns (lobbying) about what they do and what their agencies do… the narrative is one sided and toxic.

      I’m adjacent and am appalled. It never ever occurred to me that one would have to educate people why the CDC is a good thing. Why national research programs are a good thing. Why having the national security staff be federal and not for profit is a good thing. Why the national parks are a good thing. Why the FDA is a good thing. Evidently, it wasn’t as self-apparent as I thought.

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      1. not nice, don't care*

        Same folks think Jim Crow/gay bashing/coverture are good, but not when it’s their particular targeted friend/family member.

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      2. Candace*

        I know. I talk in a class I teach about The Jungle every semester and the development of the FDA. The fact that it was needed has never been a controversial one.

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  4. cat mom x2*

    my partner lost his job a few weeks ago thanks to USAID funding cut (we live in DC rn). i also just now accepted into an competitive and prestigious (ivy league) grad program (applied last year, well before all this). given the state of the economy/labor market everything, is it absolutely ludicrous for me to leave my fine paying mostly stable job to attend, and count on him to find something between now and this fall? we’re late 20s, flexible in life mostly, if that’s helpful. i only have a bit over a month to decide and it is just crushing me with anxiety. just appreciate anyone else’s perspectives.

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    1. ZSD*

      Many graduate programs allow you to defer admission for a year. Is that an option for you? That buys you twelve months to decide, at least.
      But otherwise, if you’re both late 20s and child-free, then I think starting the grad program while your partner looks for work (presumably in the location of your school) isn’t crazy.

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      2. Former Academic*

        I’ve been on the faculty side of grad admissions, and we had students accept an offer and then (often a month or two later) ask to defer their acceptance if life circumstances changed. And some accept and then back out before starting the program. Departments may not be thrilled about that, but accepting now wouldn’t force you to quit your job later if other circumstances don’t line up.

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    2. Higher Ed is Reeling*

      Many grad programs are also rescinding admissions during this time, and they’re less likely to rescind if you’ve accepted the offer versus have an unaccepted offer. I feel like you should know that you may not actually have a month. This probably doesn’t help with your anxiety, I’m so sorry for the circumstance that you’re in!

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        1. Petty Patty*

          Same here. Graduate programs across the country are rescinding admissions, I’m seeing individual stories on Reddit. I even heard of a couple of graduate programs shutting down altogether.

          My two cents is, I would keep the job and try to defer the program for a year.

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      2. O rlly*

        See today’s NYT article about the rescinding of PhD offers, even at wealthy Ivy Leagues like UPenn. I would contact the DGS as well as your putative advisor, and ask where they stand with regard to funding cuts.

        Consider: even if you spot is secure, what does the program look like in current circumstances? If it’s a PhD in, say, the hard sciences, what does the lack of NSF and NIH money mean for you conducting research, being hired as an RA, all of those things?

        Note that the problem also exists in the HSS fields — Fullbrights are not being fully paid out, for instance. Can the institution absorb the lack of external funding to support you through a doctoral program, if that’s what you’re considering?

        I’m sorry, OP, it’s a shitty time to navigate grad study. Be armed with questions and answers before you commit.

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        1. nonprofiter*

          it is luckily not in any sciences or near that, but there will certainly be a ripple effect. i’m actually in the process of inquiring about additional financial aid as well, so we’ll see.

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      3. Ally McBeal*

        That is… very alarming as we head into a recession. Most of us learned back in 2008 that grad school isn’t a good refuge during a significant economic downturn, but at least back then we had a president who doesn’t want to strangle the DOE to death so it was technically an option.

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    3. Professor Plum*

      Can you defer by a semester or a year so that you get a better picture of your partners prospects?

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      1. Elitist Semicolon*

        If your offer includes funding and you ask about deferral, be sure to ask whether your funding will also be held over. Many programs will let you defer but won’t guarantee that you’ll be funded when you do enroll at the later time.

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        1. cat mom x2*

          yeah this is huge for me. they’re offering me a partial scholarship and i’d only be able to go if i got it, so i have some inquiries to make

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    4. Combinatorialist*

      Can you defer your acceptance a year? Do you know where your program gets its funding? I have seen some grad programs starting to pull acceptance offers because they rely on federal funding. I wouldn’t want to uproot my life for anything relying on federal funding right now

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    5. Eowyn*

      That’s so hard! I would think about the ROI on the grad program – what’s the field look like (now and future projections), how likely are you to get a job that needs this degree after you graduate, how much in loans are you taking out, and what’s your savings look like? What if it takes longer for your partner to get a job? Is your partner (and maybe you too) willing to work less desirable roles part-time for extra cash?

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      2. LaminarFlow*

        +1 to all of this!

        Also, a friend’s son is in a very similar situation to OP. He ended up deferring for a year due to all of these points, but mostly the part about ROI. His field doesn’t require advanced education in the way that law, medical, or academia do, and he needs a paycheck, even if the job he lands in isn’t in his field.

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    6. juliebulie*

      I don’t know if it’s absolutely ludicrous, but the timing seems bad. Ivy League program sounds expensive if you’re both not working.
      On the other hand, if you’re getting a free ride if you take it now (?), that would make it a little easier to justify going for it.

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    7. Embarrassed2liveinUSA*

      I don’t have answers but some thoughts . . . If he doesn’t find something, can you live on student loans? Is the grad program in a field you desperately and passionately want to dedicate the next segment of your life to? Can you work side hustles to build up your savings?

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      1. MyStars*

        Do not rely on the student loan for living expenses option. First, that’s what I did for my grad school during a marriage that later went sour, and I’ve just gotten out from under that mess after 20 years. second, I have no confidence those loans will exist without a Dept of Education.

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        1. But Of Course*

          They very likely won’t. The whole point is to make education more inaccessible to people who need loans.

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        2. Llellayena*

          This. I’m in one of the most protected of the income-based federal student loan programs and even I’M starting to get worried about maintaining my repayment status and forgiveness timeline. I wouldn’t consider taking student loans at all right now until things settle out. It’s too easy for the rug to get pulled out just when you need it.

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    8. Tea Rocket*

      Given the uncertainties around funding for higher education, I’d contact the school and ask them to confirm your spot is secure and try to get some information on how your program is likely to be affected by the chaos of the current administration.

      There are limits to what anyone can guarantee about the future, but you don’t want to go all in on the grad program just to have the rug pulled out from under you in a couple of months. There was an article in the New York Times just today about how universities are cutting grad programs, rescinding acceptances. It’s scary stuff and I hope this doesn’t happen to you!

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    9. 3 Bluegrass Singers in a Trenchcoat*

      As quickly as you can, line up your financial facts to make this decision. You probably will want to know:
      – How much will the program cost you?
      – How much more will you earn when you graduate?
      – Is this graduate program the only or best route to get there?
      – What are your family’s monthly expenses?
      – How quickly can husband get ANY job(s) that will pay those monthly expenses, plus program costs? (He can look for the perfect job while he’s paying the bills)
      – Can you continue to work part time while taking the program?

      If the numbers don’t add up – defer, find another way to get to your career goal, or otherwise change your situation until they do add up.

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      1. Boof*

        Yes this – is the program a stepping stone to a job that will probably be better paying and viable once graduated, or is it more of a passion with uncertain eventual job prospects? If it’s the latter it might be best to differ especially if the initial calculus was your spouse could support you both with a stable government job*
        *pretty much the main perk of working for the government USED to be that it had decent benefits, stability, etc – !@#$@#$@# I hate things right now

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        1. cat mom x2*

          thanks – he wasn’t in the government, but at a government funded organization taking grants from several different agencies. one was USAID, the other is currently suing to get its congressionally appropriated funds released. it absolutely f**** sucks, he was there for 8 years.

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      2. RC*

        Yeah, the financials for grad school can be vastly different based on field; i.e., in normal times I’d say do not go to grad school in STEM unless someone else is paying for it, because someone else should be paying for it, although I know humanities often have it differently. But in the current Worst Timeline, I think even previously stable funding (e.g. your PI had gotten a grant funded which included 3y of a grad student salary) might be more up in the air (see: other comments about PhD programs downsizing and cutting). I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m sure the uni would understand if you ask about your potential options to defer. I’d hope it would be at least more certain if you were able to defer, because (hopefully) some lawsuits will have worked out about how FLAGRANTLY ILLEGAL it is what they’re doing. Sorry to not have anything more constructive to advise… good luck.

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    10. Cheezmouser*

      I’m assuming that the grad program is located elsewhere and not in DC. What were you guys going to do if you had gotten accepted and he still had his job? Long distance relationship?

      You’re young and presumably have no mortgage or kids, so if you needed to live like poor college students for a little while, now is the time. This opportunity is probably not going to come around again easily for you. Maybe this is secretly a good thing that you are both free to move now. Maybe it’s life’s way of nudging you both toward the next adventure.

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      1. cat mom x2*

        i appreciate this perspective! yes, i think the intention would be for us to live lean, long distance for a few months then hopefully link up in the city where the grad program is. i’d be intending to work as much as i can on the side during the program to pay for my living expenses, so it would certainly not be all on him.

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    11. bamcheeks*

      I would strongly recommend contacting the university. Anxiety thrives on unknowns and spinning multiple possibilities around in your head without facts. Hopefully, there will be contact points at the university that you can speak to and get information like:

      – how is this programme likely to be affected by cuts?
      – what are the risks if you defer?
      – is going part-time and continuing to work alongside the programme an option?
      – is there any danger of the offer being rescinded before the end date?

      This might narrow down your options– you might get answers you don’t want like, “we don’t know if we’re going to run in 26-27”. But sometimes, even narrowing down the options really helps crystallise thoughts like, “I am so excited about this opprunity even if we end up living on ramen” or “I just can’t handle this much uncertainty right now, and if I got in this year, I can get in in 28-29 or 29-30.” Even bad news can help calm your brain down and give you clarity.

      VERY good luck.

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      1. PenguinWrangler*

        “Even bad news can help calm your brain down and give you clarity”
        ^wanted to make sure this got elevated since it’s also just good advice in general. There are so many times that I feel myself avoiding certain conversations, or advancing a project past a certain point, because of a fear of bad news. I almost inevitably feel better after confronting this fear because of the clarity that it brings.

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    12. NoNamer*

      I was accepted to a public health PhD program not too long ago and was also seriously questioning accepting. I second all the comments suggesting you reach out the university and your professors specifically. They will both know the logistics of being able to defer and also if going back to school is a good idea right now (it will vary enormously by industry).

      I decided to go back anyways – these f*ckers aren’t taking away my dream and stalling my career, but there’s a lot of situations where that wouldn’t make sense. Good luck, you still get to have dreams in this climate.

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    13. Danielle*

      Many people have debated whether you should consider deferring graduate admission. I would also point out that some graduate programs allow you to take a leave of absence mid-program–often for health or family reasons. So you might consider asking the program about that possibility, as well.

      When I was in a similar graduate program, most of us also did some work on the side. For example, I was a tutor–mostly for wealthy families–and made up to $120/hour doing that work. If you start this grad program, what options would you have for part-time work to supplement your funding/stipend?

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      1. cat mom x2*

        i would absolutely intend to work while i studied, as much as i could at any job i could find, but ideally either on campus or nearby. thanks for the tip on the tutoring – that’s an incredible rate! and yes, good to remember that leaving midway is an option if it was becoming financially untenable.

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    14. Blue Pen*

      Others have already raised the idea of graduate offers now being rescinded. But for your partner, if you happened to have missed it, I would say that Democratic Governor Wes Moore is now encouraging fired federal workers to come work for the state of Maryland. Given that you’re in D.C., this may be an option.

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    15. Fellow Fed*

      I notice you use the term ‘partner’. Can your spouse land a job in the new grad school location better than the DC metro? Do you own a home? Are you going to have to sell if you can’t afford both the grad program and the home? How easily can your spouse land a new job in DC and afford the mortgage while you are at school?

      If you’re not married, how important is this grad program? Not the prestige part, the grad part. Do you need a graduate degree? What’s the after-grad pay? How are you going to pay for this degree on your own while you’re in school? You need to plan for your future without assuming any financial support from your unmarried partner.

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  5. i have spoken*

    Removed. We’re not debating the cuts here; this is a space for people to talk about how they’re being affected by them. – Alison

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    1. Victoria*

      Wow.

      This is not the time or place for this. Go debate policy elsewhere. This thread is for people who are losing their livelihoods and professional communities.

      Reply ↓
  6. Eldritch Office Worker*

    Anyone else in nonprofits getting the orders to reframe/scrub all their DEI work or lose their 501c3 status? Our lawyer told us we have to be fast and thorough. Nothing about “historically marginalized” groups, nothing about equity or diversity, no references to protected classes. I think we might be high target because my nonprofit is education adjacent, but it’s a big shift for us (even though the work isn’t changing) and it’s hitting people hard.

    Reply ↓
    1. KHB*

      The opposite, actually. I’m in a nonprofit, and while I’m not directly involved with any of these decisions personally, I’m quite surprised by how bold we’re being about continuing with all the DEI stuff under a different name. I’m told that lawyers have been consulted and these decisions were not made lightly, but I really hope that the powers that be know what they’re doing and this doesn’t end up blowing up in all of our faces.

      Reply ↓
      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        We’re definitely not changing any actual practices! But our language, especially anything in writing, is being heavily scrutinized. And changing how things are talked about can change a lot of things indirectly. Being an HR director and being told I can’t use the word equity is really fucking with me.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ally McBeal*

          I work in the private sector for an international company and a lot of our clients receive US federal funding, so our legal and DEI teams are figuring out where we need to scrub language (apparently even vendors of vendors could be held to these insane changes), but so far leadership is sticking to their guns in terms of remaining committed to the work of diversity/equity/inclusion.

          Reply ↓
      2. Paint N Drip*

        Agreed I live in a state that is vocally pushing back against the administration, and I am seeing many non-profits bolster or advertise their DEIB efforts

        Reply ↓
      3. So much yikes*

        I’m in higher ed at a state u in TX and we were told to scrub all syllabi of DEI language. We were advised to retcon all previous syllabi of DEI language, bc they are all available online and anyone ( could? Has?) search them for keywords and make a complaint. Student orgs have to do similar scrubs of their missions. This is bc DEI language is “exclusionary” and state law requires us to be “ anti-exclusionary.” Which I thought was a synonym for “inclusive” but what do I know, I’m just a teacher.

        Reply ↓
        1. KHB*

          Removed — this isn’t the place to debate it and will quickly take us way off-topic. Thanks for understanding. – Alison

          Reply ↓
      4. Tea Monk*

        My non profit is also ignoring that stuff too. We need community support and going f black people, f disabled people is not a good look. The administration might only last 4 years but reputation damage lasts forever

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    2. deesse877*

      I am noticing very wide variation on this point among public institutions in higher ed, including variations across institutions in the same state. I do not have much real intel, but for the cases I know best it is very easy to attribute such differences to existing patterns in donor, alumni, and trustee political orientations.

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    3. AVP*

      I work with one nonprofit whose parent-org scrubbed the DEI statement right off the nested website for every chapter. They did leave the carefully diversified stock photos up, though.

      Our chapter is funded fully through donations and private grants, nothing even approaching federal or state money, so I’m planning to add a new statement back as soon as I can figure out how to. We largely serve Black and Hispanic children so overall a statement about hiring practices seems like the least of our worries, and the most basic thing we should have available.

      Reply ↓
      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        We’re privately funded too but we wouldn’t survive losing our c3 status, which seems to be what’s on the chopping block

        Reply ↓
        1. AVP*

          I really can’t imagine the nonprofit Armageddon if they do that. Normalcy bias on my end but that’s an imagination too far for me.

          Reply ↓
    4. Rage*

      Not yet – but like KHB, my org put up a bunch of signs in a main hallway for Black History Month. I call it the “Hallway of Defiance”.

      We have 2 programs: one education (special ed for children severely impacted by neurodevelopmental disorders) and outpatient healthcare (for children needing OT, PT, Speech, ABA, etc.). I’m very concerned about the future of my 90+ year organization.

      And on the flip side, I’ve been working with birds of prey in captivity for over 20 years. In 2023, the org I had been with since 2004 closed after the passing of its founder. So I teamed up with another volunteer and we started our own org. I have no idea what will happen if US Fish & Wildlife is cut – specifically, will I still be allowed to legally possess nonreleasable birds of prey? I’ve put a halt on the permit update we were working on to bring in another hawk. Schools and libraries are our top places for outreach and programs. If they are losing funding, they aren’t going to be concerned with having their students meet an owl.

      Reply ↓
      2. Double A*

        I mean, it might be illegal but who is going to enforce it? We’re heading in a direction where laws are arbitrarily enforced by fiat for purposes of revenge rather than any sort of due process. And I know laws have always been enforced unequally and unjustly, which is and has always been terrible and we should be moving AWAY from that so it happens to less frequently, not spreading it to basically everyone.

        Reply ↓
        1. anon for this*

          Gah, yes — I retire next month (thank heavens!) from an industry that’s supposed to be under constant heavy federal scrutiny, for very good reasons.

          I told my successor, bluntly, that if our firm does get audited in the next three years, it will be by inexperienced, ignorant, incompetent political appointees whose only goals will be retaliation and revenge — but it probably won’t happen, because the firm’s outspoken progressive founder has also retired, and the successors are less vulnerable (being straight white cis church-going males).

          Reply ↓
    5. Banker of the Food Variety*

      I’m pleased to say no, at least for now. We’ve been sending out more communications explaining how we’re staying withing our c3 rules, but otherwise we’re holding firm.

      Overall, though, we’ve been in the firing line for a while. Even before this election, some of our public-facing employees were getting death threats. We’ve been the target of at least two conspiracy theories that I know of- one made the news, one popped up just this week. We’ve lost donors, but we’ve also gotten a huge influx of donations in response to some of these controversies. Overall, our leadership has decided that the work we’re able to do because we include DEI in our mission is worth it.

      Reply ↓
    6. MSV*

      My nonprofit is going all-in on DEI–e.g., supervisor training on how to handle gender transitions. But our general counsel has also expressed extreme concern that organizations’ (c)(3) tax status could be revoked for prioritizing DEI, which is scary indeed!

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    7. metronomic*

      I’m at a nonprofit and we have not been advised to scrub DEI work/references. But we just received word of changes to electronic communications policies, eg note taking over recording Teams meetings is highly preferred to capture key points, recorded meeting transcriptions will be turned off, Teams chat history will be deleted after 30 days, existing recorded meetings will be deleted after X months, etc. It was not stated but implicit to me is that we’re trying to reduce the amount of info available if we are subpoenaed by the administration.

      Reply ↓
      1. Snudance Prooter*

        Be careful of AI note takers in any group electronic setting. Some people don’t even know they have them. They aren’t always accurate, anyway.

        Reply ↓
    8. Danielle K.*

      Just the opposite is what I’ve heard.

      Don’t comply in advance & keep mission focused is what the last webinar from the National Council of Nonprofits.

      Basically, don’t intentionally put a target on your back, but keep doing the work.

      Reply ↓
      2. Foreign Assistance Graveyard*

        Regarding obeying in advance, I understand this sentiment and am hearing it from staff. It is important to understand that for organizations accepting federal funds and certifying compliance with the EOs, they are not obeying in advance. Some agencies have already indicated in writing that any inaccurate certifications will be prosecuted under the False Claims. Obeying is a choice, but if an org has certified in order to get funds released, it is not happening in advance.

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    9. ArtsNonprofit*

      I posted below about being unsure if our nonprofit will receive our National Endowment for the Arts funding, but we haven’t heard anything about losing our 501c3 status if we don’t change the language — where are you reading this info?

      Reply ↓
      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        I’m not reading it, it’s an order from our legal counsel I *believe* in response to Executive Order 14173 though I wasn’t actually in the meeting where it was discussed.

        Reply ↓
    10. nonprofiter*

      we have minimal DEI stuff on our site, and we have been told to remove it. no explicit threat, this is completely preemptive as far as i understand

      Reply ↓
    11. AnonFQ*

      We have not yet and our leadership has made the decision to continue business as usual unless we receive orders.

      Reply ↓
    12. Banana Pyjamas*

      Anecdotally, I think people are so stupid that if you change the language without significantly changing the meaning people will still be upset that you’re “scrubbing” DEI.

      Case in point: AT&T. They changed their diversity page to an inclusivity page, the literal “I” in DEI. News sources have reported they removed their DEI initiative, and now people are upset.

      Reply ↓
      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        “Inclusivity and belonging” are apparently fine, legally. But yeah public backlash – on a much smaller scale – is on my list of concerns.

        Reply ↓
    13. Mesquito*

      Who is scrutinizing it? I work part-time for a very small nonprofit (very, very low profile, no federal funding etc) and I was surprised to still see a lot of DEI questions on a recent grant application for a large, very non-radical foundation. We are a very small part time affair so we don’t have a lawyer to ask these things, so I’m just trying to follow along by reading the news and anticipate next year

      Reply ↓
    14. Blaize and Mue*

      I work in a non-clinical role at a public university’s healthcare system. So far we have not been told to dial back any references to DEI, and that language is still being generally used in training and communication (for example, our department newsletter still has “DEI highlights”). We also still have organizational goals around treating undeserved populations and closing gaps in care across racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic lines.

      What I have noticed is that individuals are subtly changing some things – removing pronouns from email signatures, editing their working titles to remove references to “health equity”, etc.

      Reply ↓
    15. not nice, don't care*

      My state is instructing all agencies to follow state law, which means we are still repping the full suite of blue state values.

      Reply ↓
    16. KMac*

      We’re having conversations but not making any moves yet. DEI is literally embedded in our mission statement, just as it’s in our org’s DNA, so it would be extremely challenging to reword all that and still get to the heart of what we do.

      Reply ↓
  7. California*

    California Governor Newsom this week ordered the state to create a “federal employee resource website” to help connect former federal employees with state jobs they may qualify for. Don’t know the ETA for that, but something to keep an eye on if you’re a Fed in California.

    This was part of Newsom’s 4-day return to office order for current state employees. State employees have taken his statements as vaguely threatening “you’re easy to replace” messaging. Take that how you will, but as a general matter, state employment is pretty stable.

    Reply ↓
    2. New Fed*

      This is great to see. However, in my state the State pays much lower than the Feds. I left the State for Fed and got a 30% raise.

      Reply ↓
    3. dePizan*

      Just to piggyback on state efforts, I don’t think Oregon has a statewide page up for it yet, but they are doing a series of “rapid response meetings” in Eastern Oregon, where a large portion of our federal workers are (look for WorkSource Rapid Response or eowb dot org / layoffs). They’ve had a few meetings already, but still some coming up next week.

      And then some of our state agencies were doing some recruiting for fired federal workers especially with DEI training/experience (depends on the agency, but a lot of our state office jobs are still hybrid or fully remote). My Workday Oregon is our state jobs page.

      Reply ↓
    4. not nice, don't care*

      Massive job cuts in my state right now. People are in shock. It’s the 2008 cuts but with even more uncertainty.

      Reply ↓
  8. Clicking my Ruby Slippers*

    The judiciary employees have been instructed to not reply to 47s emails. In so many words, they are not the boss of us.

    The federal judiciary is the only one that is having any success is stopping, or at least slowing down the madness.

    Reply ↓
    2. No Tribble At All*

      Anything we, the public, can do to support you/the judiciary branch specifically?

      I’m having a hard time finding things to do that feel useful. I’m honestly terrified of marching (all his enemies in one place!) and calling my congresspeople over and over again doesn’t make me feel like I’m accomplishing anything. I’ve donated to Public Citizen which is an org of lawyers who are bringing lawsuits against him.

      Reply ↓
    4. Capitol Fox*

      From a friend in the Leg Branch… never been so, so grateful for Judiciary employees. We are all indebted.

      Reply ↓
  9. Le teacher*

    Not a fed but my husband is. We just had a baby (our first) 5 weeks ago. I’m so stressed and scared during what is already a wild time.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jasmine Clark*

      My heart goes out to you (and all other federal workers and their families)!! This timing is horrible for you. It’s wonderful that you just had your first child but I can see why that makes what’s happening right now so much more complicated. It makes me sick how Elon is making these decisions that affect so many people yet he’s way too rich to care. I wish I had some advice to give you. But at least I can say that this community here supports you.

      Reply ↓
    2. Helewise*

      Sending you all the good luck and best wishes! We had a newborn during the 2008 collapse and my husband was in a vulnerable industry where mass layoffs were happening. That was a hard time; I feel for you. We made it through relatively unscathed, but it changed how we approached pretty much everything.

      Reply ↓
    4. bamcheeks*

      Teeny tiny little bit of advice I can offer is DO NOT FEEL ANY GUILT about turning inward and focussing on your needs and your baby. You probably can’t not-worry about your husband’s job, but try and let everything outside of that go: other people can be the people making phone calls and attending marches and following every detail and new development on social media or now. There will almost certainly be plenty of work to do in the future, and the more you can block it all out and make a safe and secure space for yourself and your baby at this super vulnerable time, the better for you both and the stronger you’ll be in the future. <3

      Reply ↓
    5. Ann Perkins*

      Solidarity – my husband is a fed and we have three kids under the age of 8, two of whom rely on special needs services through our public school after having been kicked out of a private school for being too high needs. I’m private sector but having a hard time focusing on anything other than the news. Downloading the 5 calls app and making calls is at least giving me a little bit of an outlet for feeling like I can do something even though 2 out of 3 of my Congressmen are lost causes.

      Reply ↓
    6. Clevername*

      I’m so sorry! I’m a federal employee whose daughter will be 5 weeks this weekend. I hate that this time reserved for bonding with my new baby has been so sullied by everything else going on. We are fortunate in that we have some savings and between the two of us (spouse is currently a stay at home dad), one of us should be able to find a job without too much trouble (in a normal job market anyway)

      Reply ↓
    7. Fed Anon*

      I’m 13w pregnant with our first, spouse and I are both feds on probation periods, we just bought a house…I am so with you there.

      We’re both still employed…for now. But the seemingly random and completely uncommunicated nature of cuts means that I don’t really take any certainty from the fact that we’ve been spared so far.

      I haven’t told anyone at work I’m pregnant yet, though I plan to soon, and it’s going to be a tough convo. We were *almost* fully staffed before the inauguration. We lost 3 probies in the Valentine’s massacre and a few final offers that hadn’t yet onboarded in the hiring freezes. Parental leave coverage is going to be a strain. I don’t feel guilty, exactly – I know I’m entitled to take it, and I’ll happily cover for others that need extended leave later – but I do feel bad about the timing.

      I hope your baby is doing well, at least. A little ray of sunshine for you and hubby.

      Reply ↓
  10. Harvey 6'3.5"*

    My place of worship has had a couple of group sessions, just for Federal employees, to process what is going on. People shared their worries, fears, and concerns. It seemed like everyone in attendance, from Departments with more work, minimal impact, and many who were severely impacted, found it helpful.

    I recommend doing the same at your place of worship, your social club, or anyplace with enough Federal employees to get a group together.

    Reply ↓
  11. Tradd*

    As a customs broker with FDA food entries in the process of FDA deciding whether the shipments will be released into the US marketplace, I’m seeing FDA response times to emails and information submissions via their ITACS website increase hugely. What used to be 1-2 (business) days is now 10-14 (calendar) days. I’ve heard that some food safety fed workers were fired and that appears to be the case due to these suddenly greatly increased FDA response times. I always had fairly decent interactions with FDA.

    Reply ↓
    1. RedinSC*

      Oh wow, that means that food being shipped is just waiting, for up to 2 weeks? That can’t be good for the food distribution systems.

      Reply ↓
  12. Someone Online*

    I am not a fed, but most of the people in my organization are federally funded from grants. There is only so much we can do to try and protect our funding. And it’s just exhausting. Every day I’m waiting to see if I’m going to have to lay people off and aside from a few phone calls in the morning before I start work there’s not much to do. I spend almost all day, every day wanting to cry.

    Reply ↓
  13. Admin of Sys*

    Not a fed, but I work in a heavily nih grant funded university. We’re all basically being told to not panic and hope the lawsuits / appeals go somewhere. Worse, over half our local economy is driven by research universities, research hospitals, non-profit and for-profit research institutions, and other related healthcare systems that also get indirect money from NIH for grants. If the limit holds, our entire town is going to start bleeding jobs.

    Reply ↓
    2. IT But I Can't Fix Your Computer*

      Same. We’re doing preliminary cost-cutting measures in hopes that we can avoid disaster later, which means we’re already hurting the local economy by cutting back on things like our already-quite-limited catering and office supply orders. We already lost many places that didn’t make it through Covid.

      Reply ↓
    3. Cafe au Lait*

      Same. I work for a Big 10 University. They’ve instituted a hiring freeze, and my coworker suspects they’ll cancel merit raises this year. My department was in the middle of a salary equity review to bring up the salaries of some of the lowest paid individuals (I’m one of them). I expect that will also be cancelled. I had also applied for a job reclassification since my duties are now at a supervisor’s level opposed to the level when I was hired. I expect that I will continue with my new duties but without the pay or title increase.

      Reply ↓
      1. Blaize and Mue*

        Our Big 10 university hasn’t said the words “hiring freeze” yet, but they are instituting more oversight over new postings as well as promotions and moves. I’ve been trying to get several of my staff promoted for a while now and I fear I’m going to be told a blanket no.
        I’ve been surprised at how many people, even those I work with in the university, don’t understand how devastating this could be for us. I’ve heard multiple coworkers saying “but we are not research!”…yeah, that’s the point, we support research!
        Good luck, it is definitely stressful out there.

        Reply ↓
    4. Higher Ed Worker*

      Also heavily NIH funded here. We’re being told not to panic and also being told to prepare to cut our department budget by 10% and also being told that if all of the administration’s threats come to pass we’re in serious trouble. Which does not help one to not panic.

      I am in a similarly research heavy city, and have been too busy worrying about my university to worry about the city… but now I’ll spare a little panic for that (lol sob).

      Reply ↓
    5. mac and cheese*

      University-based fed contractor here, embedded in-house at a science agency that hasn’t been cut yet. We are also being told not to panic but a large fraction of our work is directly climate related and it is hard to see a scenario in which they do not drastically cut or completely obliterate the entire division. These are jobs that mostly don’t exist in the private sector, academia is being defunded the same way, and the market is already flooded with specialists from other agencies that have seen cuts. It looks like the only way to stay working in sciencein this field is going to involve leaving the country. I’m not sure how to even try to pivot in what is going to be a brutal job market overflowing with all kinds of specialists (DC area here) plus likely collapse of the local (national/ global) economy.

      Reply ↓
    6. Nesprin*

      Fed contractor supported by NIH and other gov’t science money- I’m horrified that the career in science I’d worked hard for for decades is collapsing around me. Just had a postdoc quit and my lab is in trouble. Seriously considering packing up and moving to Europe.

      Reply ↓
  14. EMW*

    What do I do to make my daughter (19-biracial) feel safe as a member of the armed forces? She is really struggling watching protections for women and POC being striped and seeing her mentors removed from their leadership positions. She has worked so hard to get into a service academy and is now questioning her whole life. She can’t quite, she can’t speak out publicly. How do I make her feel safe?

    Reply ↓
    1. MSV*

      I’m so sorry. Parent of a 19yo daughter here, I don’t have any good advice. But I am glad she has a parent who’s got her back.

      Reply ↓
    2. Reba*

      Kindly, I don’t think that’s in your power.

      Continue to let her know that you have her back whether she decides to stick it out or quit, or complain or speak to a lawyer or whatever. Quitting is always an option. You can offer her all the support that you can – emotional, logistical, financial.

      Reply ↓
      2. EMW*

        I don’t think you understand how the military works. Quitting is not a choice. If she just walked away they will put her in jail.

        Reply ↓
        1. Bella Ridley*

          If the daughter is at a service academy, not quite accurate. Students can separate from an academy if they are in their first two years. There are potential penalties involved, and if she is third year or higher she can no longer do so, but it’s a possibility. Correct that one cannot walk away from regular military service without facing prison time.

          But if the daughter is in a position where she is too far into her time there to quit, unfortunately parents cannot do anything other than offer whatever emotional, financial, general support is within them to give.

          Reply ↓
          1. Reba*

            Thank you, I was responding to her being in a service academy and presuming based on age that she is in the first two years.

            Reply ↓
    4. MyStars*

      You’re asking the wrong question. You can’t make her safe. But your love, encouragement, and wisdom can equip her. I am trying the remember the gospel according to Taylor Swift, that the trash always takes itself out. And MLK Jr, that the moral arc of the universe is long but bends toward justice. Equip her to behave in a way that she will be proud of when the world rights itself. We always have subversives on the inside of poisoned systems.

      Reply ↓
    5. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Talk to her about what specifically she’s afraid of. Does she fear actual physical injury from bigots who no longer fear legal consequences? Does she fear having the position she worked so hard for taken away from her because of her race? Does she fear being trapped in a position where she’s marginalized, discounted, or abused? Some of those things are unavoidable, but together you can brainstorm coping mechanisms. Some of those things might be avoidable if she still has any higher-ups she can trust or if she’s not yet required to stay in the service.

      The other question is what traits and beliefs prompted your daughter to work so hard to get where she is. No law can change those, and there may be more than one life path that honors them. If it’s a need to help others, defend the defenseless, honor a family legacy, or break down barriers, work together to find ways to keep that substance while changing the form.

      Finally, and I know this may still be a source of stigma, she may benefit from counseling to help her reframe things.

      Reply ↓
    6. Z Fed*

      I would consider leaving the service academy if she can. I was in the military a while ago. I knew a couple of officers who left a service academy and did ROTC in college and still became officers. ROTC without scholarship does have some commitment to after a certain point too, though.

      If she leaves the academy dream is lost, but a military career as an officer is not out of the question later. If the situation changes, she may be sought after. If not, maybe she’ll not regret cutting her losses.

      I guess, mom, listen, be supportive, and remind her of the options she has.

      Reply ↓
    7. I should really pick a name*

      What would safe mean to you in this context?

      You may be asking how to make her feel safe when she actually isn’t.

      Reply ↓
    8. ThisIshRightHere*

      She is not safe, nor was she safe before the current administration stepped in. It’s a more worthwhile endeavor to help her see that very clearly and use that to plan her approach for the time that she must remain in the system.

      Reply ↓
  15. 123456789101112 do do do*

    I am/was a probationary employee who was fired three weeks ago. It has been jarring and heartbreaking. I have 10 years of continuous federal service with outstanding evaluations, and I was vulnerable because I changed jobs. My manager didn’t even know – I sent a chat to her as I was being fired and she was shocked.

    I have tried every avenue to get my job back and all I can do now is wait for the courts, the Merit Systems Protection Board, my agency’s HR department, and whoever else to figure this out. It was illegal and I feel like someone came into my house and robbed me. Please have as much compassion as possible for everyone in my position and everyone who still has a job (today) but has to go to work every day wondering if it’s their turn on the chopping block. Call your senators and representatives and tell them that DOGE is using napalm where pruning shears are recommended.

    Reply ↓
    1. KCD*

      My heart goes out to you! I have been in local government for 12 years and all of the civil servants I have met/worked with have been so dedicated to their jobs (from local to state to federal). We all do a lot of work with few resources. What is happening to federal workers is so very wrong.

      Reply ↓
    2. Z Fed*

      My heart goes out to you. We lost a valued employee doing outstanding work and who got time off awards before being fired with a letter that made it sound like they were doing a shitty job.

      But the other probationary employee is waiting for the ax to drop. And the rest of us struggle in a suddenly toxic work environment with anger, great, and stress.

      Reply ↓
    3. another fired fed*

      Hugs, I was also a probationary worker fired 3 weeks ago (though I was a first-time fed after several years of fellowship/contractor roles). Your analogy about someone coming into your house and robbing you is exactly how it feels. And like, you call for help and the person who’s supposed to help you instead spits in your face. It’s been awful.

      Reply ↓
  16. Constance Lloyd*

    Dual fed household living in the DC area. I’m heavily considering a second part time job for financial peace of mind, but the idea of adding part time work to my full time work, 2 hour round trip commute, and an active job search sounds… unsustainable. So I’m kicking that down the road for a little while longer and anxiously hoping I don’t regret it.

    Reply ↓
  17. WorkerJawn*

    Maybe too niche a question – does anyone have a sense of how the VA’s WOC employees are supposed to handle the 5 things emails? I am one of 3 WOCs on my non-VA team and we all accidentally lost access to the VA system a month before this started. Theoretically we all have profiles in the system but cannot access them. It’s unclear if we’re going to face repercussions for not answering the email if/when we are able to re-establish access.

    Reply ↓
    1. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Have you lost access to all VA systems including your email, or only the ones you need to work?

      Reply ↓
    2. CatCalendarFTW*

      we received guidance that if you are a WOC and received the 5 bullet point email , just respond.
      do you know if other WOCs got it? my sense is that maybe some did and some did not.

      however, in y’all’s case if you can’t access your email to respond, I feel like there isn’t much to do.

      at the risk of telling you something you already know — there isnt even a specific email that you could message to send your five bullet points to (i.e first week I got the email from hr4@opm.gov, this week I got the email from hr3@opm.gov )

      Reply ↓
  18. I Count the Llamas*

    I am not a fed, but have family who are. They’ve been informed by their management that they expect to shut down next week and to prepare for it to last a while. What do you do for liquidity during an extended government shut down? How do they pay their bills, buy food, etc. with no paychecks coming in?

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      How do they pay their bills, buy food, etc. with no paychecks coming in?

      Savings, re-mortgaging property, loans from friends and family, or … they just don’t. The Wikipedia page on the 2018-2019 Government Shutdown discusses this a bit:

      Unemployment assistance to federal workers furloughed under the government shutdown varied by locality. Only non-reporting workers were eligible for assistance, whereas furloughed workers who still reported to work were not. Workers who received unemployment assistance were required pay it back after the shut down ended and they received backpay.[131] Some furloughed workers sought other employment opportunities while they were idled. However, external employment must meet agency-specific ethics guidelines, and mandatory reviews of external employment were also curtailed as most ethics officials were also furloughed.[132][133]

      As furloughed federal workers and their families shared stories of their hardships, such as not being able to meet rent or mortgage payments and missed bills, the hashtag “#ShutdownStories” went viral on social media.[138][139] … Other federal workers reached out to other news outlets to share stories about having to stretch their budgets and the impact of the shutdown on their families.[140] In addition to being unable to meet rent or pay bills, many federal workers around the country were unable to pay for groceries and turned to food banks.[141]

      If you’re interested in reading more, the sources from those Wikipedia paragraphs are:

      131. “Federal Workers Affected By Government Shutdown Turn To Unemployment Benefits | Bankrate.com”. Bankrate. Archived from the original on January 12, 2019. Retrieved January 12, 2019.
      132. “Ethics Considerations, Including Outside Employment, During a Furlough”. Doi.gov. February 8, 2018. Archived from the original on January 9, 2019. Retrieved January 16, 2019.
      133. “Moonlighting Feds Could Be Risking Their Jobs”. Nextgov.com. January 11, 2019. Archived from the original on January 17, 2019. Retrieved January 16, 2019.
      138. Lubben, Alex (December 27, 2018). “Government workers are sharing their #shutdownstories on social media. They’re grim”. Vice. Archived from the original on December 28, 2018. Retrieved December 29, 2018.
      139. Alfaro, Mariana (December 25, 2018). “Federal employees affected by the government shutdown are using the Twitter hashtag #ShutdownStories to share their hardships”. MSN Business Insider. Archived from the original on December 30, 2018. Retrieved December 29, 2018.
      140. Andrews, Taylor (January 11, 2019). “My Family Is Surviving on Canned Spaghetti Because of the Government Shutdown”. Cosmopolitan. Archived from the original on January 12, 2019. Retrieved January 11, 2019.
      141. Ebbs, Stephanie (January 15, 2019). “Unpaid federal workers get help from food banks during government shutdown”. ABC News. Archived from the original on January 15, 2019. Retrieved January 15, 2019.

      Reply ↓
    2. toolegittoresign*

      Talk to a financial advisor. I have been in circumstances where I have had to withdraw from my retirement savings to make ends meet while out of work. It’s truly a last resort because you get the penalty on top of the regular income tax hit, but it’s better than going too far into debt or losing housing.

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        Sorry looks like maybe it’s more complicated for government workers? I was furloughed for a few weeks during Covid but was able to get UI for those weeks.

        Reply ↓
    4. Inflatable Unicorn*

      1) Pitch in. This is the perfect time to be passing the hat for family members if you can afford it.

      2) Have them talk to their banks. DMV-area banks and credit unions are used to furlough stresses and often offer loans (advertised or not) for anyone working for the fed with low interest rates and long repayment terms.

      Reply ↓
    5. Undine Spragg*

      Once the office has shut down, they should file for unemployment benefits. All the ins and outs are not clear to me, but the unemployment office can decide if they qualify. It won’t be much, it takes time to process, and there may be rules about applying for jobs, etc., but it is more than nothing.

      Reply ↓
    6. anon for this*

      Fed workers who’ve been through it before started saving a few months ago (cutting the discretionary stuff). Unfortunately that doesn’t help anymore.

      Food shelves (which are experiencing a lot of pressure) start to come on the table as an option.

      I’m sorry, there is no good answer. This is going to be very painful. I’ve been reading my history books and back when labor movements, the Civil Rights movement, etc were at their strongest, mutual aid and community organizing were crucial to success. Providing food, child care, life support for striking workers, for bus boycotters, for families affected by the arrests of caregivers, all that sort of thing — these are crucial or people and families are just ground into extreme poverty & distress. I don’t know how to do this, but we have to build communities regionally and electronically because right now there is no political party or other institution going to save us.

      Reply ↓
    7. FedToo*

      One thing to remember that I tell new hires is that our pay is in arrears which buys some time. So my agency has payday on March 7th. Then we’ll work a week, then shut down. The paycheck on the 21st will be half what it normally is (assuming the shutdown lasts for a week). If it goes 3 weeks that’s when we’d miss our first full check. The last big shutdown was on a pay date which bought us a full check (which may be the case for some out there).

      I don’t mean to ignore that some people live paycheck to paycheck, but in the shorter shutdowns I had people saying they couldn’t pay bills but we never actually missed a paycheck by the time it was over so it was more panic than anything.

      Also many federal credit unions will offer paycheck protection to feds or give no interest loans during shutdowns.

      Reply ↓
    8. Checkr*

      For those that bank with Penfed or USAA, look into their paycheck advance offerings. Last time they did offer that, but it IS unprecedented times so who knows. Just an option to keep in mind.

      Reply ↓
    9. Fedie*

      If they have money in the thrift savings plan (gov version of a 401k), they would be eligible to take a loan. When there was the last long Trump shut down, that is what some of my colleagues did.

      Reply ↓
    10. Fed Up Fed*

      I’d suggest they’d talk to their workplace EAP programs. They will have a handle on what resources are available, including through local banks, and will be able to guide them through the process of borrowing against their TSP, for example.

      Sadly, I’ve been through multiple shutdowns and it sucks. All of this sucks.

      Reply ↓
    11. Bored Fed*

      While your question about liquidity is spot on, folks should know that they will eventually be paid for their time on furlough, once the shutdown ends. At least that’s what the law (31 USC 1341(c)) says. The Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019.

      What additional mischief happens thereafter is anyone’s guess.

      Reply ↓
    12. fed-adjacent*

      Is there a local federal credit union branch? This is advice I’ve heard given to civil servants around here: apparently the CU can give no-cost loans to CS during a shutdown, if they have an account before the shutdown happens. Because (in addition to all the other stupidity), by law they all WILL get backpay once the government reopens, so YEP, YOU’RE JUST PAYING PEOPLE TO DO NO WORK.

      Anyway, look into credit unions, and hope everyone can make it through this. Ugh.

      Reply ↓
  19. Bonkers*

    There’s no way this doesn’t have a huge ripple effect throughout our economy, right? Federal spending doesn’t just poof into oblivion – it funds a good chunk of the private sector. And those government contractors fund another chunk, and so on and so forth. Like… how is this not going to end up devastating our economy?

    Reply ↓
    1. Cafe au Lait*

      That’s the point. This administration wants the economy to fail so billionaires can buy it for pennies on the dollar. And then remake it into techno-states that are owned, runned, and adjudicated by billionaires.

      Reply ↓
      2. I'm A Little Teapot*

        Yeah, but the flip side is if the US economy is ruined, then you need the rest of the world to make money. And right now, we’re also in the process of alienating much of the rest of the world.

        Reply ↓
    2. JustMyImagination*

      I was reading a political advisor who said this chaos and an economic depression are kind of the point of what they’re doing. It allows them to privatize portions of the government like the FAA by pointing out how inefficient they are (they’ll be inefficient because the people were all fired). Then billionaires like Musk and Bezos can come in and take over those roles, get huge government contracts and pay the desperate people next to nothing to maximize profits.

      Reply ↓
      1. PP*

        “privatize portions of the government” and/or contract portions out to their friend’s or themselves. And yes, indeed, get labor at super low prices due to desperate people.

        Reply ↓
    3. iglwif*

      Not just throughout the US economy, but elsewhere in the world too.

      USAID is a very obvious example in that their whole deal is funding programs abroad (e.g., HIV/AIDS medications in parts of Africa where many, many people are HIV+). But firing all those National Park Service workers? will do a number on tourism revenues, not all of which come from Americans. Firing people, cutting funding, and censoring research at NIH? will affect (is affecting) medical and medical-adjacent research all over the world, because so much of this research is done by multinational teams.

      I work in science publishing and not in the US. It’s affecting us in a whole bunch of ways, from US researchers having to withdraw submitted articles or back out of being guest editors to wondering what’s going to happen to the non-trivial proportion of our revenues that comes from the US in one form or another.

      Reply ↓
      1. mac and cheese*

        As a federal science contractor, I am trying to write two manuscripts for publication. But I’m pretty sure I won’t be employed by the time they would get accepted (or even come back from review), so the publication fee becomes a huge problem. Right now we can still pay the fees but these come out of the same funds that pay our salaries, and each publication would cost me a month’s rent out of my remaining funds.

        Reply ↓
        1. iglwif*

          Yep.

          My advice is to ask for an APC waiver — no guarantees obviously, but many publishers/journals will give you one based on The Situation.

          Reply ↓
          1. br_612*

            I got one for my first author grad school paper because my PI quit science and just . . . disappeared. Never to be heard from again. He didn’t even tell me himself I had to hear it from his department head when they realized I didn’t know.

            I had nightmares in the weeks leading up to my defense that my PI showed up and I panicked and froze (one of my committee members helped me get through both the paper submission/reviews/revisions/publication and writing my dissertation like the total angel he is). I told a friend about that and he recruited people to sit by both doors into the room to keep watch (he didn’t show. Logically I knew he wouldn’t but he had left me in such a disaster logic didn’t mean much).

            Reply ↓
          2. Alice*

            I agree about the APC waiver — and, ask at the time you submit, not after the manuscript is accepted.
            Alternatively, is there a diamond OA (neither the reader nor the author pays) journal that is a good fit for your work? You can search DOAJ for journals and filter by no APC, or you can search for a topic in Lens, limit the results to diamond OA journals, and see which journals are prominent in the results list.
            Or, go with a subscription journal (no APC) that has a generous self-archiving (green OA) policy. You can look up journal policies conveniently in the Open Policy Finder from JISC.
            Good luck, sorry you are in this situation.

            Reply ↓
            1. iglwif*

              Yes, this is excellent advice! I read too quickly and thought these articles were already submitted, but I now see they are still being written, so you still have time to shop around for a journal without APCs.

              Reply ↓
        2. another_scientist*

          Talk to your supervisor and line management. I am also a federal science contractor, and barring any political problems (e.g. your particular research topic is now a forbidden topic), my department would pay the APC anyway, as long as your authorship is listed with them as affiliation. Ideally it would come out of the project that funded the work, but getting something published is important currency, not just for you as an individual, but also for department metrics. So they have a motivation to cough up a few thousand, which isn’t much relative to what other things cost.
          nb: if throughout all this, the for-profit publishing system gets broken, that would be an unintended consequence that I could live with!

          Reply ↓
    4. Lurker*

      I suspect if stocks tank those with money buy low and then can make money when the economy rebounds. It could be a longer game.

      Reply ↓
      1. penny dreadful analyzer*

        The kinds of thoughts I have upon reading comments like that would get me a visit from what’s left of the FBI if I posted them. Good god, I hate everything about our ruling class.

        Reply ↓
    6. Momma Bear*

      I think that’s the point.

      And, yes, especially in areas that are heavily dependent on the feds being there, this is going to have larger effects. It’s going to affect housing, local taxes (schools, roads), small businesses, contractors, etc. It’s also going to affect people who were looking for jobs when the federal workforce needs to regroup. I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but I’m saying the influx of skilled people will affect the job market.

      Reply ↓
    7. br_612*

      I work in pharma development and most of my clients are fairly early stage. They often rely on nonclinical pharmacology data (so studies done in cells or animals that show potential drug efficacy) from academic labs that need NIH funding. There are different monetary setups for this. Sometimes the drug company just provides the drug for free and lets the lab do whatever they want with it, with the understanding the data will go into the overall package the company presents to the FDA, and will be used in educational/promotional materials the company uses to recruit study sites once published. Sometimes the company also pays for the reagents, etc., that will be directly used for the study and gets a say (and maybe a middle authorship) on the study design and publication. It just depends on the finances of the company, intellectual property considerations, and how key the data will be to the company.

      But even in the latter scenario, they’re not paying enough to cover salaries, equipment, indirect costs, etc. Those types of setups will not keep a lab running. So if labs shut down due to lack of NIH grants, pharma is also screwed. The small startups (who often have the coolest novel ideas and are more likely to try to treat rare diseases because it’s a passion of the founder) can’t afford to pay a contract research organization for everything needed to get the FDA go ahead to start clinical trials. That budget is used up on the things that need to be GLP-compliant (toxicology studies).

      And that’s before we get into what this administration is going to do to the FDA itself. We’re already seeing longer response times from RPMs. One client has a meeting request letter in, so I guess we’ll see if they get their date on time (there are very clear and rigid time lines for FDA meetings. You send in a request and you hear back in X days on when the meeting will be and send in your package Y days before the meeting. Like these are set in stone, if you won’t have your package ready you have to withdraw your request. The exact times depend on the type of meeting). I also have a few INDs going in in the coming months, I know what information requests I expect to get based on the package, but I don’t know if we’ll get them at the normal timing or not.

      Reply ↓
  20. Anonymous1016*

    Removed since I ask that we use this space not to debate the cuts (something beyond the scope of my work here); rather, this is a space for people to talk about how they’re being affected by them. – Alison

    Reply ↓
  21. Liz the Snackbrarian*

    I’m a federal contractor and am concerned about my job. Definitely planning to spruce up my resume.

    Reply ↓
    1. Speechless*

      With you. I vacillate between fury and panic. I am grateful to still have my job and be on an active contract, but at the same time the feeling of being constantly under surveillance, of knowing that every word I type or say on my GFE could potentially be saved and read and used against me is making me feel like I’m in a Hitchcock film. It feels like we’re waiting for the other shoe to kick us in the ass at any time.

      Reply ↓
  22. WellRed*

    Did anyone see the small news article about small federal agency that refused to admit two DOGE goons access? Small bit of resistance.

    Reply ↓
      1. 2025*

        Eventually, the history books will remember those who resisted, who did what they could. And those who went all in to help our country be destroyed.

        Reply ↓
    2. Katie*

      Then you have my company who helped give them access. Yes I am looking for a new job. Not a good time to quit without one.

      Reply ↓
    3. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I hadn’t but I just googled and saw it! Hooray! It’s the U.S. African Development Foundation (USADF), for anyone who wants to know.

      Reply ↓
  23. A large cage of birds*

    I work for a large organization that’s technically a nonprofit. The organization is (completely separate from all this) undergoing layoffs and announced them right as the NIH indirect cost cut was announced.

    In my mind, positions like mine are absolutely funded by indirect costs. I can’t get a straight answer from our VP about whether or not our department is funded by indirect costs, and whether or not we’ll be laid off if the cuts go through. I know that things are uncertain, but the non-answer from my organization is not helping.

    I feel for everyone affected, especially those more immediately and directly affected than I am.

    Reply ↓
    1. AOR*

      There may be information publicly available at your organization about what costs are included in your F&A rate agreement, if your organization has a federally negotiated rate. Most universities, for instance, have their rate components published somewhere.

      As an AOR for a university, I absolutely feel you. I think it would take a lot of cuts for my office to be looking at layoffs, but my salary is definitely an indirect cost of research, whether or not it is funded by indirect recovery or how it was/is included in indirect negotiations.

      Reply ↓
  24. AnonnyToday*

    I’m a gov contractor and found out my company almost didn’t make payroll because there is so much of a shakeup in our federal division that there wasn’t anyone left to sign off on our payments! Four months of contract work, talking millions in payments, were sitting unpaid. We were days from missing payroll for 500 employees, and possibly shutting down.
    Because of the work we do under contract, people would have died within days of shutting down.
    We are now preparing for the government shutdown next month.

    Reply ↓
  25. FedAdjacentAdjacent*

    My husband is not a fed but works at an FAA facility. I won’t get too specific, both to protect him and because I’m going off of second/third/fourth-hand information, but: he has told me he thinks that it will not be safe to fly after this year. FAA is demanding that the deadline for upgrades to a critical comms system be moved up to this year. Coworkers with knowledge of the project have told him that even if they started today and worked around the clock, they would not have enough time to finish testing the system before implementation. The new deadline is almost certainly due to DOGE meddling.

    Reply ↓
    3. Frieda*

      Do you or does he have a best guess about when the deadline will be? I guess I’m really asking, after what date would you as a family quit flying?

      Reply ↓
      1. FedAdjacentAdjacent*

        I’m not sure of an exact date per se, but I was told end of this calendar year. Only time will tell if that deadline holds up, though, or if they encounter enough internal pushback to delay it.

        Reply ↓
  26. IT But I Can't Fix Your Computer*

    Not fed but work at a place with lots of federal funding. A colleague (who I think means well and is sympathetic to the broader issues) said at least those of us whose jobs aren’t specifically funded by federal dollars should be safe until the next fiscal year, but we’re not under contracts! We don’t have a union! We are not safe! The institution isn’t going to just stop doing all of the things that are federally funded and keep running a support infrastructure for nothing.

    Also it’s hard to imagine any large workplace that hasn’t already been through layoffs and early retirements and “cost containment measures” and 10% budget reductions and hiring freezes over the past 10 years. I’ve been there and I can tell you that while we’re still standing and doing good work, we’ve never recovered from budget cuts that happened almost 10 years ago. To assume that the federal government alone has some huge problem with bloat, that it’s full of incompetent people despite so many positions being incredibly competitive, that any inefficiencies can be solved by just telling fewer people to do the same work instead of investing MORE money into modernizing systems, is just so insulting.

    Reply ↓
  27. Inflatable Unicorn*

    Is anyone else wrestling with how to approach Section 508 work? Section 508 of the Americans with Disabilities Act (not to mention the Equal Employment Opportunity Act) is still law, BUT accommodations also come under anti-DEIA executive orders.

    We know people who attended DEI training they were requested to attend have been canned for “DEI” so I’m wondering if working on accessibility is hanging a red flag on my job.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alex*

      I work in higher ed, and was just in a seminar about the university’s Disability and Accessibility requirements (as it relates to my job in particular, which it does in a big way). Inevitably, this question came up, and the answer that was given from the head of Disability services was that accessibility is still law, and that that is clear cut, and therefore we are obligated by law to create access and that is somewhat separate from DEI, legally. He followed up with “…as long as the rule of law holds,” and the room laughed nervously. Of course, it is also law that people are allowed to peacefully protest, and the university is being threatened with the withdrawal of federal funding if we follow that law, so…there is no certainty about anything.

      Reply ↓
    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      We’ve had discussions about exactly this (government contractors). We’re going to start advising our clients to do [accessibility improvement/fix] because it will improve SEO and the user experience (technically true…for certain users with certain limitations).

      Reply ↓
    3. Mimmy*

      My job isn’t directly tied to the ADA or accessibility (except for a monthly group class I do on ADA topics) but I want to get into accessibility work. I really hope disability laws and accessibility standards don’t get rolled back.

      Reply ↓
  28. Festively Dressed Earl*

    My husband is (?) a federal contract Swiss Army Nerd who’s been working remotely for six years because there’s no room in the DC office. (He’s a software developer who has also done testing or training over the years as needed.) On Monday, he finally got word that his entire team is being laid off. Yesterday, he got word that he might not be laid off because he’s super useful and the agency is fighting to keep him. I have mixed feelings about this; I don’t trust this “reprieve” any further than I can throw it, and I’m afraid of what will happen to him once he’s trying to keep things working in a horrifically understaffed department. Someone tell me how I should feel right now?

    As for me, I’m a J.D. (not barred) who’s been out of the workforce for almost the entire six years since I graduated, due to illness and family obligations. I volunteer for a NGO to keep my skills up; my most recent and relevant work experience is with a state agency and a federal agency respectively. Now I’m trying to find a paying job, but I have no desire to try for a position with my red-state government. Any ideas?

    Reply ↓
      1. Festively Dressed Earl*

        That’s the problem. Several of his higher ups built actual, data-based arguments for keeping him on as well as heaping praise on him. They’ve stuck their necks out, so now he feels obligated to stay. (I asked him to get a copy of whatever those arguments are so long as they can be redacted and not violate security.) I get it and I don’t want to stress him out more, but part of me wants to pull up AAM on the laptop, drop it in front of him with some snacks and a drink, and tell him he’s staying put until he’s read the entire damned blog and can pass a quiz.

        Reply ↓
    2. 1qtkat*

      If I were him, I would take the salary but definitely start looking for a job. There will be a flooded job market once they start formally RIFing people (I’m betting it will be this summer/fall based on the dates of the OPM requested agencies to submit their plans for RIF and reducing agency space).

      As for you, please don’t discount your JD skills. I’m a barred attorney with an agency and with what’s going on, I’m looking to pivot to a career where I can use the skills I have outside of law.

      Reply ↓
      1. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Thanks for that. I don’t discount them, it’s just that (1) I’m rusty, (2) I know I can pass the bar, but we don’t have reciprocity so there’s no sense going through the time and expense if it’s likely we’re going to have to move and (3) I don’t know what to do with myself. I’ve had my heart set on public service since undergrad; it’s why I went to law school in the first place. One of my 1L classmates had family directly affected by the Flint water crisis, which got me into environmental law, which is now a no-go unless I want to get into the inevitable toxic tort litigation coming down the pike in a year or two.

        Reply ↓
        1. Piper*

          In my past I did public interest law work. For your current circumstances, you could consider pursuing a non-public interest path for a company / in an industry that does no (or less) harm, with the idea that survival is first and you are not giving up your long term goal.

          Reply ↓
    3. Ms. Municipal*

      Inspired by some recent office conversations, local city/county governments that are looking for procurement staff might be a good fit. You likely already have good attention to detail, a solid understanding of contracts and the willingness to read them completely, the ability to not distracted from organizational needs by shiny objects, and clear communication skills.

      Reply ↓
    4. DefinitiveAnn*

      Can you take the bar and pass it? If nothing else, you could do so then hang out a shingle…

      Reply ↓
      1. Festively Dressed Earl*

        I could, but that won’t transfer in the high likelihood that we have to move soon. Our state doesn’t have reciprocity agreements with any other states, and if my husband loses his job again in another week or two, we’re going to need that $6000-$10000. Right now I plan to save up a “bar fund” for getting admitted in another state.

        Reply ↓
  29. Lurker*

    I work for a program that is Medicaid funded, the higher ups say there is nothing to be concerned about but frankly I don’t buy this for a second. If these programs get cut BAD things will happen at local levels. It makes me glad that I have other part time work to bolster any income loss but those could also be effected by the radical sweeping changes that are being made.

    Reply ↓
  30. ArtsNonprofit*

    For nonprofits getting federal funding:

    Not a federal employee, but I have an arts nonprofit that was set to receive a National Endowment for the Arts grant this year. Our specific focus is working toward gender equity in our arts industry. We know that the cancellation of federal grants has been canceled so we expected to still receive our grant funding, but we also know that it’s still “pending review” and we don’t know if we’re now subject to the current administration’s values for funding that was already promised.

    Anyone else in this situation? It’s our first time receiving NEA funding so we don’t know how the process normally goes.

    Reply ↓
    1. Lurker*

      Is it possible to move forward as if you were NOT going to receive it as there is no way to predict what will happen?

      Reply ↓
      1. ArtsNonprofit*

        That’s our only choice, unfortunately! But we’re pretty small/grassroots and it’ll be a huge difference to not get that grant money.

        Reply ↓
    2. Alice*

      I’d suggest talking to your congressional representatives’ staff. If they are anti-cuts, they need good stories of the impact. If they are pro-cuts, maybe they will rethink, or try and get your org’s grant processed because “you are one of the good ones.” Maybe it won’t help, but I don’t think it can hurt.

      Reply ↓
  31. One Duck In A Row*

    I am not a federal employee, but part of my job intersects with federal agencies and regulations re products the larger company I work for manufactures and/or distributes. We have been going on with work as usual, but I feel like I should be keeping a close eye on things (*general defeated arm gesture*) to help anticipate what effects we could see from, IDK, regulatory agencies collapsing or programs just disappearing. Does anyone have thoughts on where I could go to find chatter about this kind of thing? I’m really feeling the lack of connection to professional orgs, etc., but my employer is small enough and this kind of work here is newish enough that I don’t have that, and don’t even know where to find it.

    Reply ↓
  32. Datagoose*

    I work in education research, and with everything going on right now my work stability is up in the air. My (small) company is waiting to see if we can still get grants that we were in the process of applying for. I feel like I want to do something meaningful about it, and then today I learned there’s a protest happening (stand up for science) tomorrow. My question is- how can I best approach me attending this protest to my boss? He is the owner of the company, and our main researcher. I am unsure how to straddle the line of this being something important to me with the fact that hopefully this will actually help our company. I’m nervous because his stance on almost everything is quite rigid for employees.

    Reply ↓
      1. Datagoose*

        It’s a walkout. The problem is I don’t know how long I will be gone. I suppose I could just go over my half-hour lunch break but it if everyone did that I don’t think we would get our point across very effectively.

        Reply ↓
        1. Lurker*

          If its a walk out then DONT tell your boss. The whole point is to “shock and awe” those above back. Even if your boss isn’t the target.

          Reply ↓
    2. Inflatable Unicorn*

      Tell him you’ve got a personal thing and can’t come in tomorrow and then follow the advice from the previous letter t0day – don’t wear anything branded by your company and don’t speak for your company.

      Reply ↓
      2. Datagoose*

        I was planning on not identifying myself as an employee of any specific place, but given the passion in the education field, I think odds are high I could run into an external colleague, which would definitely get back to my boss since all of my work ties are through him. And if that happens I don’t want to have been sneaky- even if I agree generally PTO requests don’t need reasons.

        Reply ↓
  33. NewFedSup*

    New federal supervisor who survived the first probationary purge. Moved for this job because I was underpaid state employee for ten years. No savings, paycheck to paycheck, no emergency fund, my parents had to pay for my move. Really want to stay to actually build a life, pay off debt, but panic applied to jobs since November and now don’t know what to do as I’m getting interview offers. Especially since most of the jobs are in academia so that’s not exactly save either now.

    And just feel so bad for my staff as I know nothing, communication with upper management was already a complaint when I started. So all I can offer is, I’ll tell you when I know and help with any job searching/resumes, interview prep.

    Reply ↓
  34. Dinwar*

    As a federal contractor, the biggest issue is the uncertainty. No one knows what’s going on, and when organizations are uncertain, they hold off on making decisions, including hiring and contracting decisions. This is absolutely going to have trickle-down impacts in ways that most people don’t realize. Some contractor work is legally required, and you can hand-wave away NEPA, EPA, and whatever else, legal settlements are still obliged to be carried out. Think about Camp Legeune, for example–and remember that only about 5% of these things make the news!

    Reply ↓
    1. another_scientist*

      This is something that keeps getting me riled up, in between tuning it all out for periods. The notion that more oversight is needed is so far from my everyday reality as a govt contractor. If I want to buy office supplies, I have done at least one training on prudent stewardship of taxpayer funds and correct accounting to ensure proper oversight. I then go into a clunky online system where I can chose from a selection of pens that someone in our organization has pre-selected as acceptable, and my order is reviewed by a higher-up before it is processed. This is like, the most streamlined part of my work. There are laws governing how we spend taxpayer funds, then there are systems put in place, we all get trained, and there are minimum two pairs of eyes on each purchase, often 6 or more.
      On a personal level, I formally check in with my supervisor every other week, have to submit a timecard showing which projects I worked on every month, and my supervisor reviews that too. Last year, all timecards also got audited externally. I get a mid-year review, and my annual review is discussed by 3 levels of management.
      On a project level, we report to our funder in monthly calls, quarterly reports, annual reports, and by attending an annual meeting.
      My whole job is basically reporting, assurance and oversight sometimes. DOGE talks about reducing inefficiency and boy, would I have suggestions about nonsensical rules and procedures that would increase efficiency. If a Swiss-born scientist working for us attends a conference in Switzerland, is it prudent to spend $2000 to provide them a training about the dangers of foreign countries? Probably not, but we are.
      From what I have seen, no regulation has been touched. No rules have been streamlined. All they came up with is ANOTHER report, which is what that 5-things email is. Another report? Federal employees (and contractors) eat another report for breakfast. But it doesn’t make anything more efficient.

      Reply ↓
  35. Nicki Name*

    I work in a healthcare-adjacent company that is affected by government regulations. Chatter at work has changed from “I hope it takes RFK a while to figure out how to even make his changes” to “I hope they haven’t fired all the people who even know how to publish the next round of updates.”

    Reply ↓
  36. Three cats in a trenchcoat*

    How are people who work in international development handling the idea that their entire field is… gone?

    I work in mental health, but in DC, so I am doing a lot of supporting those going through this. I think there are huge impacts to all feds / people affected, but have been struggling most with the idea that you could have a full career in a specific area and effectively have it… disappear.

    Reply ↓
    2. USAID contractor*

      We are relying on our whole community for this “extinction-level event”. Networking events, resume review workshops, happy hours, texting former colleagues to check in…It’s hard, but the community has been supportive.

      Unfortunately, supportive doesn’t pay the bills or help the millions of people around the world that we were helping.

      Reply ↓
  37. all cats are beautiful*

    Any other non-profit folks feeling extremely ethically anguished about fundraising?

    Us, we were already just making it. Donors losing their jobs, inflation going up (we use a LOT of commodities likely to cost a lot more), and the stock market possibly lessening the capital available to a foundation we deeply depend upon are all frightening. Our mission is life-or-death for those we serve, so we have an ethical obligation to raise the funds to do what we do.

    On the other hand, these cuts to USAID are going to kill tens or hundreds of thousands. Just two examples: (1) the AIDS funding to Africa, which the Guardian predicts will cost 500,000 lives if not immediately reversed or made up in some other way, (2) the funding for LGBTQ+ organizations in countries where there are no protections at all (and, often, government hostility towards) queer communities. That makes me want to urge everyone I know, especially those with money, to immediately give everything they can to make up those and other urgent shortfalls.

    The only thing I can think of that comes close to solving the dilemma is maybe some sort of fundraising consortium. Or maybe campaigns where, instead of a matching donation to us, the matcher donates to another org or to some sort of pooled fund for those most affected. We do participate in the GlobalGiving international network of nonprofits, and I see that they have created a new fund for partners worldwide who have been directly affected by the cuts. So, maybe, ask a major donor (if they haven’t suffered shortfalls themselves) to pledge to match donations to our org with a donation to that fund?

    VERY interested in hearing from other nonprofit folks with creative ideas about how to meet your own evolving organizational needs when other orgs are in much deeper trouble!

    Reply ↓
    1. Lurker*

      I don’t think you need to feel bad about fundraising, people know that non-profits do this and want to support causes close to their heart. I would brace yourself for the reality that the economy is likely to tank and those donations will NOT be coming in. Time to make a Plan B.

      Reply ↓
  38. Checkr*

    Dual fed house, we are looking at avenues out of the country. We both served in the military and both have been feds ever since, but we have an 18 month old to consider now and can’t really see a future that is safe, healthy, and happy for our child here. Spouse has niche skills so we’re hoping that works to snag a visa-sponsored position and I have highly marketable skills, just not ones that are likely to warrant visa-sponsorship. Pulling every string, crossing every phalange, and updating every resume to try to get somewhere we can hopefully secure a future.

    Reply ↓
    1. Anon in the academy*

      Bandwagoning onto this to say I’m not a fed but I’m thinking of y’all and wishing you the best in these hard times!!!

      Reply ↓
  40. Capitol Fox*

    Dual Fed household here, expecting our first child this summer. Oof.

    I’m in the Legislative Branch, close enough to get a front-row seat to all this mishegas, but utterly powerless to influence anything. My job is safe, but my partner’s (in the E Branch) isn’t, and every day seems to start with a “So, who got fired yesterday?” check-in with the group chat. It all seems so unreal to me, like we’re in this massive shared fever dream. Because this can’t *actually* be happening, right?

    Reply ↓
  41. tryingToCode*

    My spouse left their government contracting job months ago, in a planned “leave with nothing lined up” because of how bad the environment had gotten there.

    Now they still have no job leads, but they also aren’t a part of the large group of job seekers now in our area from that job. So more competition and no resources, really, since anyone looking to help an out of work fed would see they left their job in September. We had planned on the job hunt taking 6mo-a year, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it took even longer now.

    Good luck to all those who are looking for work!

    Reply ↓
  42. Thegs*

    When I first became a fed I had hoped that I could be the change that I wanted to see, to help make things better in the world. Now I’m just settling for the role of like, hospice nurse for a dying empire. I apologize for despairing, but when even the billionaires are now mask-off about how they’ve been buying control of the government and economy for the past decades, what even can I do but try to use my position of privilege to mitigate their reckless hate? It’s not enough, it never feels like enough, but it feels like all I can do to try to protect the vulnerable.

    I’m trying to walk the line between putting my thumb into the eye of these spiteful authoritarians and keeping my job. I’m in a pretty pivotal position to just quietly not do their stupid orders. But I’m a contractor, so I have zero protections for my job outside of how difficult it would be to replace me. I have an obligation to aid and defend the American people, all of them, even including defending the current administration’s targets from the administration itself. But I can’t do that if I get fired…

    I’m so tired and it hasn’t even been two months.

    Reply ↓
    1. Lurker*

      This is one of the better analogies I have heard for what is happening. Remember that making you exhausted is the point. It is hard not to react to the 25 new “breaking news” events that happen every day. I have helped this by limiting my news consumption to twice a day (I look at two different sources) and I only focus on things I can directly impact in my immediate environment. This has helped.

      Reply ↓
      1. Thegs*

        Yes, the deluge is part of their tactics. To give another analogy, we must be like the shore before a raging sea. The shore may erode and retreat, but eventually the storm spends itself out and the shore is still there. Maybe in a new shape, but it endures. I like how you put it, how you’re focusing on things you can directly impact. That’s what I’m struggling do, but I think I’m figuring it out.

        Reply ↓
  43. Tantallum99*

    I’m not a federal worker, but many are my colleagues (my org is involved with multiple federal grants and contracts). I just came here to offer my support to you all and I’m so angry on your behalf for what is happening now.

    Reply ↓
  44. Stop Watch On*

    Removed. Again, we’re not debating the cuts here; this is a space for people to talk about how they’re being affected by them. – Alison

    Reply ↓
  45. TG*

    I’ve been a Fed for 30+ years, through a lot of different administrations and I’ve never been this close to just walking out. This administration pulls something new and stupid every day. Today we learned that GSA (via DOGE) is looking at getting rid of the federal building we work in, the one we were all ordered to return to full time at or else. But we can’t work from home, so WTH.

    I’m furious that hundreds of thousands of necessary and good government workers are being traumatized for no good reason.

    Reply ↓
  46. ragazza*

    All that talk about the bloated federal government when the size of the federal workforce compared to the total civilian workforce has been consistent for more than a decade–1.5% of the total civilian workforce, per the Pew Research Center.

    Reply ↓
  47. Astrid212*

    I don’t get it – why aren’t people demonstrating en masse to protest these cuts? Are we all so defeated that we’ll roll over and let the emperor with no clothes tank the economy?

    Reply ↓
    1. Lurker*

      I have seen some demonstrations, ironically enough I am seeing them on Tik Tok from people live streaming when they are there and not the news. Many things are not getting news coverage it seems.

      Reply ↓
      1. CatCalendarFTW*

        technically, I think it might illegal ? I dunno . I remember signing something about not protesting against the government. and I guess, if we protested as government employees against the government, then we could get fired.

        to be clear, I would love a mass demonstration by all fed workers, past and present. but at this time, I am also worried about losing my job for no good reason, and also worried that I demonstrating would then give them a reason. it’s hard to just do something for the principle of it all when one’s livelihood is on the line. or, it’s hard to ask a lot of people to something when they may be risking their livelihoods . you could say that , hey, you’re going to lose your job anyway. but at the risk of speaking on behalf of those who have not, I think I feel like
        I just want to keep my job so I can pay my bills, please.

        but I also don’t know to what extent this is understood as a labor issue. like I don’t know to what extent fed workers see themselves as workers who should use their collective power to stand against capital power, you know ? but, I mean, this IS a labor issue, of there ever was one.

        here’s a great article that talks about a lot of these things :
        https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/02/elon-musk-donald-trump-doge-executive-orders-firings.html

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    2. nnn*

      There are demonstrations happening. Look in your local area. If there isn’t one, you can organize one! Don’t wait for others to lead; be the leader.

      Reply ↓
    3. Generic Name*

      There are demonstrations near daily, but they seem to be on the smaller scale and only reported on by local news outlets. Just in Colorado I’ve seen half a dozen demonstrations at the state capitol, one at the NOAA HQ here, one at Rocky Mountain National Park.

      Reply ↓
    4. Dinwar*

      The fact that the president threatened to put protestors in jail recently sort of indicates that we are.

      But really, what does a demonstration or protest do? It feels good in the moment, but if the agencies aren’t willing to listen to the protestors, it’s futile. Protests work to get attention to a cause, but frankly there’s not many ways to increase attention to this, it’s at a saturation point. Everybody knows.

      A much more effective sort of action is being taken by the courts, which are both not complying with (often illegal) demands and which are fighting to shut down this nonsense.

      Reply ↓
      1. Undine Spragg*

        I feel like protests right now are like throwing snowballs hoping to start an avalanche. We are a long long way from the moment when the avalanche will happen — we don’t have the right slope, we don’t have the weather conditions. But it’s just the beginning. The march I went to on Saturday wasn’t super well organized — they didn’t even have a bullhorn — but great, get the kinks worked out now. The organizers are learning, they are just beginning and they are radicalizing themselves, which is not nothing!

        Also, people see people protesting. The same train that took me to the protest took my seat neighbor to the flower show. I talked to her. She protested in the 60s, she’s appalled too, but she’s raising two young grandchildren and the flower show is a rare indulgence. But she knows now that people are protesting. She knows more concretely that people care and people are willing to act.

        People along the route clapped and cheered. It’s not much, but it’s something. Even the lawyers who are bringing these cases to court, the judges who hear them, they’re human. The more they hear and see that people do care, that people are active, that might give them just a little more energy, a little more strength to go on. People are stunned and gobsmacked, it will take time for something to form, and when it does form, (if it does), it won’t be exactly what or how we expect. In the meantime, I’m just one butterfly, flapping my wings, trying to cause a storm. I won’t cause a storm. But maybe I’ll help uplift the person who helps the person who causes the storm.

        Reply ↓
      2. Aggretsuko*

        I have to agree with that one. I want to go protest, but haven’t yet (since they’ve been on workdays), but also, I’m literally afraid to get arrested if I do, and I do think it’s a “feels good in the moment” thing more than anything else. It could cause me more harm than it would to do good.

        Reply ↓
    5. Higher Ed Worker*

      People are demonstrating. I think one of the problems is that a lot of the demonstrations are happening during the (standard office) work day, so they aren’t getting as much attention. But I’ve been aware of several demonstrations happening over the course of each week.

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    6. Head Sheep Counter*

      I’ve demonstrated… but… am in a deep blue area in a blue state. Other than finding my people… there’s literally no impact my protesting does. Until the administration hears from their own folk that this is unacceptable… they won’t care. And so far… their own folk find it ok. Also see media owned by the billionaires who own this administration for lack of coverage.

      Reply ↓
    7. Qwerty*

      I’m getting most of my protest coverage from Reddit.

      There’s a lot of protests but are all pretty small. No idea if this means it is a small number of people who are protesting or a medium number spread out thinly.

      Letter writing campaigns are also going on for politicians at all levels of government.

      Reply ↓
  48. Z Fed*

    I am heartened by my coworkers who are simply doing this job to serve the veterans and are trying to continue to do so. We’re just to keep doing our jobs to the best of our ability. We were hit hard by lost resources. And can expected more if we are forced to “return to the office.”

    None of us have an office. We have been virtual teams for 20 years or more ie not co-located with coworkers. I think most people have been full time WFH for over 15 years. People are worried about what office they will be assigned to because who knows what kind of commute we’ll find ourselves with.

    We will lose more people when they force a return to office on us.

    It’s pretty miserable trying to do our jobs in a toxic work environment and I’m sure that’s a feature of all this DOGE.

    Reply ↓
  49. AnonFQ*

    I work at a Federally Qualified Health Center and while we’re not federal employees, the vast majority of the funding we receive is tied back to federal funds in some way or another. Most of our patients are on Medicaid or Medicare and since we’re in California undocumented folks are eligible for Medicaid here. I’m worried for all the patients who might lose their healthcare, our undocumented patients and a bunch of folks who might lose their jobs if the ACA is dismantled.

    Reply ↓
    1. Lurker*

      Is your admin saying anything about what the plan will be if this happens? I am finding that I am hearing crickets from my administration which I find very concerning. I would be making contingency plans.

      Reply ↓
      1. AnonFQ*

        We have some pretty robust plans for what we’re going to do if ICE shows up but for everything else, I have not heard any plans yet.

        I’m with you on being concerned–I’m at the director level in finance so I think I should have heard more than I have which means there’s not a concrete actionable plan. We’re having a off-cycle leadership team meeting next week so perhaps we’ll talk about something then but I’m not feeling great about it.

        Fingers crossed for you!

        Reply ↓
        1. Lurker*

          You too! I do not live in an area of the country where ICE raids are a risk but I think that the isolation we have here is giving a false sense of security to many who live here.

          Reply ↓
  50. Dual Fed Home*

    My spouse and I are both federal employees in the DoD outside of the DC area. We both feel fairly secure because DoD is not getting hit as hard as other agencies, but there is still a great deal of stress. There is a probationary employee in my office and the news about her job changes daily. Also, I sit in the Public Affairs office for my agency and half the office (like 5 people) have spent this whole week scrubbing our social media sites of anything “DEI” that was posted in the last 4 years. That is all they are doing. No actual PA work. And DEI means anything that makes reference to race, gender, or LGBT status. They have to report daily on the number of posts they remove. The rumor is that once this is done, they have to go even further back and delete everything. Also, on top of that we have spent countless hours on the “5 bullets” email. The second one was sent (as many of you know) at midnight last Friday, which I and my spouse believe was done solely to mess up our weekends so that we would be angry and hopefully quit. That would be one less person to fire.

    The most frustrating part is my bosses (many very senior active duty officers) have to act as if this is all normal. They are just adhering to the new administration’s priorities and they are supposed to remain apolitical. It is very frustrating because it would be nice to feel like leadership has our backs right now, but they literally can’t say anything.

    On top of all that, it is exhausting to watch the dismantling of institutions that I know benefit all Americans like CFPB, NIH, and FAA. So many people have no idea how the government has touched their lives and they are about to find out. I just hope there isn’t a major catastrophe that causes the wake up.

    I don’t have a question for anyone. I’m just venting a lot of stuff that has been keeping me up at night. I hope we make it through all this with our country at least partially intact.

    Reply ↓
    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Your bosses are the perfect example of the Lawful Evil alignment. Rules are more important than people, the economy , the planet, full stop.

      Reply ↓
    2. What?*

      How the on earth are you spending “countless hours” to write 5 bullet points on what you accomplished that week? It takes me 2 minutes to go through 5 meaningful things on the spot at my weekly team meeting with zero prep time.

      Reply ↓
  51. Do You Hear The People Sing?*

    Allison, could you do one of these for teachers too please? This hasn’t hit us yet as hard as it has the federal workers, but it will be hitting us hard, soon.

    Reply ↓
    1. Katrina Ogelforth*

      I think it makes sense to wait for that until there are more concrete changes because right now it would just all be speculation and stress.

      Reply ↓
  52. Comma Queen*

    I’m incredibly frustrated and feeling unsure what to do next. I had been a contractor, but when my company lost the contract, I decided to go government. I took some time off while waiting for the offer to process, which of course took twice as long as expected. I burned through my emergency savings with the confidence that I would be getting the ultimate job stability in the end.

    My agency has staved off probationary firings so I still have a job, but I feel like it’s only a matter of time before RIFs have to happen and I’ll be one of the first to go. I’m already job hunting, but I don’t know what to apply for since all the program management job openings outside the govcon world are focused on IT or healthcare, and my experience/training/degrees has no overlap. Then there’s the question of getting something close to my existing pay since being a contractor is a bad bet right now.

    Any tips for deciding what’s next without absolutely panicking?

    Reply ↓
  53. Dr. KMnO4*

    My husband works for a STEM professor at a top tier public university. The indirect cost limitations on grants is devastating to professors who want to recruit graduate students, since now the university is no longer offering tuition waivers. A new grad student will now cost my husband’s boss an additional $50k+ a year. As the professor is still early in his career, his job is predicated on him getting grants and publishing papers. The only way that happens is with research results, which require graduate students and postdocs, though a lot of university departments want professors to take grad students because that brings in money for the university in a way that postdocs do not.

    The professor my husband works for has gotten some high profile NIH grants, and there is some concern about funding being pulled. Thankfully they do mouse work, so none of their projects have been affected…yet. Apparently, though, there was discussion about “transgenic mice” and linking that to “transgender”, which just goes to show the depth of idiocy we’re dealing with. I don’t fully understand the work my husband does, so I don’t know if their lab works with transgenic mice, but it’s still ridiculous. Also, with the anti-science sentiment that is blossoming, I worry that no project is safe.

    My husband and I are also worried about his job security since his boss is from China. The xenophobia that has become more open and accepted is concerning. Will his boss become a target simply because of his country of origin? If things get bad enough, I wouldn’t be surprised (nor would I blame him) if he decides to go back to China. Heck, he might not even be given a choice, since I don’t think he’s an American citizen.

    Of course, I am also affected if the DoE goes down, because I am a STEM professor at a community college in a red state. Community colleges in this state have historically been treated dismissively by the state government, and I don’t expect things to get better. Will my college lose funding? Shut down? Will I lose my job?

    I don’t know the answers to any of these questions. I don’t think anybody does. But how do you prepare for the worst-case scenario when the “worst-case” keeps getting worse and worse and worse?

    Reply ↓
    1. Dr. KMnO4*

      And another thought I’ve had:
      If my husband’s boss does go back to China, voluntarily or not, do my husband and I go with him if we can? I am well aware that China is no bastion of freedom, but at least they value education, which it seems like this country doesn’t anymore. I know that people who can teach English are constantly in demand in China, so I feel fairly confident that I could find a job there.

      Reply ↓
      1. Piper*

        “there was discussion about “transgenic mice” and linking that to “transgender”, which just goes to show the depth of idiocy we’re dealing with”

        Yes, idiotic, ignorant and lazy.
        Plus rather “1984” Owellian.

        Reply ↓
    1. bananners*

      I’m wondering this too. I work with more USDA than any other agency and I’m anxious to find out if my network is getting to come back.

      Reply ↓
  55. Mother of Panthers*

    Just a quick note and virtual hug to all of you fed folks. Thank you for your service and for standing up against (gestures at everything).

    Reply ↓
  56. Ameri-corpse*

    I’m not really a fed (or, not yet, but that was the goal!) but I’m an Americorps member working at a federal building (not NPS, but basically NPS). I’m six months into my year of service.

    I’m relatively lucky in that Americorps is a career change for me, not my first job out of undergrad (my fellow corps members are all 21 and terrified… or just going straight to grad school and hoping this works itself out by then). What do I say to my younger colleagues?? This is all so abnormal and bananapants that my usual advice on how to make sense of USAjobs, or how to network with fed colleagues, or how to… not drown in despair… is kind of irrelevant. Sigh. We are really losing a whole generation of bright young scientists who want to do USFWS/USGS/NOAA research. It’s such a waste.

    Reply ↓
    1. New Fed*

      I’d say get organized in your free time (non service hours) and contact your Congressional delegation. AmeriCorps is very much on the chopping block… despite it previously having bipartisan support. Elected officials need to here from you about the impact. Tell your story, not just of how the program has benefited you personally but how it benefits the people you serve. Voices for National Service is a resource.
      Get organized to support each other, mutual aid, etc. Look for AmeriCorps alum groups in your area…

      Reply ↓
  57. emby*

    I’m a fed and some days it’s hard not to just cry. There’s barely any work I can do because we haven’t been given enough direction to start anything or continue any prior work. The little I can move forward on is in flux because I have no idea which of my colleagues will still be here to work with me on it. I’m fortunate that my work has a pretty direct link to recipients, so we hear that they want us to continue even with the current limitations. We’ll see how much longer I can last.

    Reply ↓
    1. tenor eleven*

      I’m so sorry. I hate all of this for you. I didn’t vote for it the first time and I knew the sequel would be worse.

      Reply ↓
  58. federalprobie*

    I’d love some thoughts and opinions, as I’m super anxious about if I’m making the right decision. I’m 25 and I work for the DoD (mental health adjacent but not a counselor). My goal for so long was to get a federal job and help the military with mental health. I’m finally in a federal role, but since I’m probationary employee I may be getting laid off. Every day I’m getting conflicting information- some days we’ll hear that we might be exempt, other days we’ll hear that we’re not. I’m tired of being stuck in this limbo. I job hopped a lot up to this point because I was trying to get into a federal job where I could stay for the rest of my career, but now that I’m here, I may be about to lose my job. I started job searching in anticipation of potentially beign laid off, because I’m not in a position to be unemployed for an extended period of time. I got a job offer this week for a job I’m interested in that makes about the same as what I make right now. The benefits aren’t quite as good as federal benefits, but for all I know those may be about to be cut also. I’m planning to take it and put in my two weeks here tomorrow, but I feel like I’m putting my coworkers in a terrible position because of the hiring freeze, since they wouldn’t be able to replace me. But I’m scared to turn down a good job and potentially get laid off in the next week or so, and then be out of a job (and health insurance) entirely. My dream for so long was to work for the DoD and help servicemembers, and it feels so wrong to be accepting another job after only working here for a few months. But I also don’t want to be unemployed. I also feel like I’m letting the administration win by leaving before they force me out, when I don’t even know for sure if I’ll be laid off. Am I doing the right thing by getting out?

    Reply ↓
    1. Dr. KMnO4*

      Imo, yes, you are doing the right thing by getting out. If our country survives then you will likely have the opportunity to go back to the DoD at some point in your career. You need to take care of yourself right now.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lurker*

      You have to put your own life preserver on first. What would you tell a client if you were using motivational interviewing with them?

      Reply ↓
    3. Putting the Dys in Dysfunction*

      First thing, you have to take care of yourself. As much as you value your colleagues, your need to have a job comes before any difficulties they may have with your leaving

      Second, leaving does not let them win. That battle is being fought at a large scale, and your personal decision doesn’t affect it.

      Remember, being probationary you’re at much greater risk, even if they don’t fire you quickly. There’s not certainty as to what will happen, but whatever you judge is in your interest is where you should go.

      Good luck.

      Reply ↓
    4. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Take the new job – grap the lifebelt before you drown!
      Your current job & benefits may disappear any day, leaving you unemployed and broke if you chose to stay.
      Jobs with the same sort of pay are likely to be rare and with 1000s of other applicants. This offer is a lucky break for you.

      Reply ↓
    5. KiwiBird*

      Since you’re probationary, I agree that taking the offer is the right move for you. You need to be able to pay your bills and eat, and this job offer provides a bit more security to do that than your current position. That sucks a lot and I’m so sorry. But remember it’s harder to fight oppression if you’re worried about meeting your basic needs.

      Reply ↓
    6. Fed-funded State Guvvie*

      If you could stay at DoD, do you think the vision you had of helping servicemembers would still be possible? How likely is that?

      It sounds like you don’t want to reneg on what you signed up for, but *this* isn’t what you signed up for! You committed to a job where your work would be stable, paid, supported, wanted, appreciated, or at least allowed. I’m not at DoD, but it sounds like this ain’t that.

      If you take the new job, what’s to stop you from then volunteering some free time in a way that helps servicemembers/veterans? Sounds like you have skills and commitment that veteran support organizations would love to have in a volunteer. And you could have the freedom to do the work well/the right way at the right organization.

      No matter what, huge kudos to you for getting here. You made it through a hard hiring process and I applaud your commitment. I’m young-ish as well and achieved my dream of a public service career, which is now in doubt. I think, “at least we got here.” And maybe if we lose this, we’ll go back some day. Or run for office. :)

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    7. Momma Bear*

      I’ll be honest – you’re early in your career and you’re young. Take the out if you can. I completely understand what you were aiming for with the jump to fed, but you need to base your decisions on what’s in front of you now, not what you thought you had.

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  59. Sad nonprofit person*

    I work at a nonprofit. We could lose our c3 status this year or next- we also expect institutional partners to come under attack. Further, several seven figure donors are “pausing” their funding while they decide what they want to do next, which is fine, but we need to make payroll. Right now I’m just hoping there won’t be enough capacity at the IRS to attack non-profit orgs. I don’t know how this field will survive.

    We’re also being pressured to move further to the right in our programming and messaging to try to win over MAGA support for our organization and mission. our board visibly winced when our DEI strategy was mentioned at the most recent meeting. Seems short-sighted and I’m not sure what I’m fighting for at this point. “coming together, left and right, finding common values” feels like a 2017 strategy that never worked. tbf, “Trump resistance” didn’t work either.

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  60. A Dot Matt*

    Not a Fed, but I work at a non-profit serving a population the current federal administration openly despises, while more than 1/3 of our funding comes from the federal government. And our governor (state provides the other 2/3 of our funding) is involved in a very public fight with the current federal administration. We are scared for the vulnerable people we serve, sick with worry for our jobs, and so, so angry. Every day feels like a nightmare roller coaster.

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  61. Head Sheep Counter*

    I’m at a National Lab (not a fed). The atmosphere is… weird. We’ve had this impact our Fed Workforce and it seems credible that its coming for us (surely the contracts are a big number and when you are 19 years old and know nothing other than big number… its hard to believe they won’t hit those contracts). The anxiety is real for me but doesn’t seem to be uniformly real for my colleagues. The unknown is deeply uncomfortable.

    We’ve had impacts on our Employee Resource Groups and Diversity Equity and Inclusion. I am certain there are other impacts that haven’t yet been widely known… for example, getting clearance is typically through the FBI… and well… and getting travel approvals is through a different fed organization and well…

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  62. DogFace Boy*

    Federal employee here. I have felt traumatized every day for weeks now, just like the head of the OMB wants. Watching my own career and those of my colleagues crumbling before our eyes, watching the erosion of the safety net. I would love to know if the so-called savings DOGE posts (assuming they even started out remotely accurately) account for net gains instead of just gross gains. I am guessing there are a lot of net losses here. Or if DOGE is showing any that the things being cut are actually fraudulent, wasteful, or inefficient, and not a slash job of necessary contracts, services, and the ability to federal offices to pay their electric bill. And let’s talk a bit more about efficiency and waste for a moment. The DEIA EO caused my agency to do things like breaking the link of a presenter’s biography because she noted that she had had “diverse experiences” from having held a variety of different positions. And that’s just the one instance of taxpayer dollars poorly spent that gets me because it is so so stupid. Here is a more chilling and revealing fact: SSA acting Commissioner Dudek said the old ways of “setting goals, doing studies, discussion, getting information and data before making decisions” are gone. Those in charge now “will make mistakes, but I need to move them in a direction that is best for SSA.” If these “old ways” are gone, then we can stop pretending that DOGE’s exercise is anything remotely related to improving the federal government.

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  63. lunarpunctuation*

    I’m former quasi-exec Fed (self-funded so on its own payscale, doesn’t shut down during shutdowns etc) and my spouse is fairly recently a part-time Fed, and even though their agency hasn’t been directly affected, the looming shutdown is awful, and their upper management seems to be attempting to get ahead of DOGE, which seems futile. Thankfully I make enough we’ll be okay if they have to go without work for a couple months, but it still majorly sucks.

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  64. you're never fully dressed without a similie*

    I’ve been with my agency for 15 years. I’d thought I was going to retire from the federal government. My entire life and my entire financial strategy for life has revolved around that. Now I’m not sure I’ll still have a job by this summer.

    I’m feeling so demoralized. Why work on more projects? Why do anything? They’re going to get rid of my job and everyone who does it because we’re “just” support, so if I build a tool now, it’s just going to break by the end of the fiscal year because no one will maintain it.

    I’ve been through shutdowns before. This feels different.

    And throughout all of this, my family still don’t believe me when I talk about how serious this is. “Surely it won’t be you, you do important work”, they say. “So did everyone who got fired”, says I.

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  65. Anonymosity*

    Disclaimer: I’m not a federal worker. However, my company is involved in quite a few infrastructure projects, and I work on some that are tangentially entwined with the federal government. I worry how funding will affect them.

    So far we haven’t lost any work that I’m aware of. That doesn’t mean we won’t. :( I know it’s probably futile to hope someone grows a spine and (politically) puts a stop to this (illegal) madness, but I still hope.

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  66. De Minimis*

    It’s a waiting game here. No RIFs announced here yet, and we had the probationary firings reversed by the Secretary before they actually happened. But I think eventually we’ll be affected by this. Local leadership I think has their heads in the sand. Our whole agency seems out of touch and they keep having “town hall” meetings where no actual information is given.

    Not sure how I’ll do in a RIF, I have more years in than some in my department. We’re also affected by all the crazy new rules about purchasing.

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  67. hazel*

    Wishing you all the very best from a public servant in New Zealand. I’m so sorry you’re all going through this.

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  68. Fed-adjacent*

    My org gets about a third of our funding from federal grants. Today they laid off about 25% of my department, including half of my immediate team and my grandboss. I’m still employed, but my job is about to become much harder and I’m so sad (and in a few cases, extremely mad) for my coworkers. Rumor is that leadership hopes this is the only round of layoffs for our department this year, I’m just praying that this is the only round of layoffs for our team, because I’m 8 weeks pregnant (obviously no one knows yet) and we get insurance through my job.

    No one in my office got anything done today. What am I supposed to do, send emails to colleagues who may or may not still work here? It’s all just exhausting.

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  69. Shades*

    I’m an civil servant engineer and my job is to solve problems and all of this is turning me into a ball of anxious fury because there’s not a damn thing I can do.

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  70. Jennifer in FL*

    My husband is a DoD employee. It’s….stressful. On the one hand, his disabled VA benefits were approved last week. On the other hand, the promotion that has been in the works for almost a year and was set to go into effect next month is now on hold indefinitely. He works with everyone from Active Duty to Contractors, and all the information pouring out is conflicting. We are definitely luckier than some, but it’s still not good for anyone.

    Reply ↓

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