people complain I’m unenthusiastic at work events, fair scheduling when kids are involved, and more

by Alison Green on February 25, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. People complain that I don’t want to be at work social events

I’m in a senior leadership role, and have been for the last six years. I keep running into the same problem and I’d love your advice.

I don’t enjoy social activities at work (Christmas parties, picnics, etc.), and I also don’t like corporate retreats. I’d rather do my tasks, as I’m very busy. I’m very much in the minority.

I always encourage my staff to participate. I do attend, but it’s out of obligation. People notice and then complain to my boss, who keeps talking to me about my participation.

I resent this. To me, attending even though I don’t want to is my way of being a good leader and teammate. But apparently that isn’t enough; I’m supposed to like the activity itself. I’m told I should want to do the thing.

My job isn’t at risk. But it’s causing my boss stress I don’t think is fair. I also can’t abide the idea that I would be inauthentic by being overly enthusiastic. I’ve asked to be told when something is mandatory, but it’s been made clear to me that I shouldn’t need to, and should go to everything.

If people are able to tell that you don’t want to be there to the point that they’re complaining to your boss about it … yeah, you’re in the wrong. Particularly as a senior leader, it’s rude to make it so obvious that you don’t want to be there that people around you can tell (which I’m guessing is what’s happening, because otherwise there would be nothing for people to pick up on, let alone take to your boss). If you didn’t enjoy the activities but went out of obligation and behaved graciously while you were there, this would be fine. You don’t need to be “overly enthusiastic”; you just need to not be obviously unenthusiastic.

Part of being in senior leadership is that you not only show up for this stuff, you do it graciously.

For what it’s worth, there’s plenty else about being in senior leadership that’s “inauthentic” but is still part of the job, like not rolling your eyes when a colleague says something absurd, or implementing a decision that was made above you and isn’t what you would have picked, and on and on.

2. How can we create a schedule that’s fair to people with and without kids?

I work in a small department that has strict customer-facing hours from morning through evening; the team is me and two coworkers.

Our manager used to ask for our scheduling preferences each quarter and would try to make sure everyone was pretty equal (one closing, one opening per week per person, no weird shifts that make taking a lunch impossible). She retired and hasn’t yet been replaced. Big Boss has been having us work out the schedule amongst ourselves, and we’re running into trouble.

We’re trying to collaboratively create a schedule that covers all the hours and works well enough for everyone. But both my coworkers are coming to the table with very limited hours. Both have children and need to come in and leave at very specific times to do dropoff/pickup, but this is leaving difficult gaps of time to fill. I find that my colleagues aren’t being particularly flexible and I understand that they have children, but I don’t want to work every late afternoon or evening, work every day while they get 1-2 days completely off customer-facing work, or have a really irregular schedule (close one night, open the next morning, split shifts) while theirs are more consistent.

How can I approach this? I have no “need” to leave work early or refuse these shifts, and saying I just don’t want to work all the bad shifts doesn’t seem to carry as much weight as family obligations. Are there any solutions? I’m hoping not to bring it to Big Boss if I don’t have to.

Your framing is wrong! It doesn’t matter what your reasons are for not wanting to have the short end of the stick every day, or even the majority of the time. You get to say your time off is important too, and you’re presumably not being paid any kind of extra premium for taking on more scheduling hassle than your coworkers are.

It’s enough to simply say, “I don’t want to work late every afternoon or evening or have a really irregular schedule while everyone else’s is consistent. That won’t work for me, and I propose we handle it the way OldManager used to — for example, (fill in specific proposal).” If they reply with, “Well, I can’t because X,” then you should say, “I can’t either, and I’d like to schedule the way we did under OldManager, which everyone seemed to be able to accommodate then.”

And if an agreement can’t be reached relatively quickly, then do bring in Big Boss — that’s part of what they’re there for, and it’s more likely to solve the problem than having to convince people who have already demonstrated they’re not willing to be fair to you. Sometimes you need someone in authority to step in and resolve things.

Related:
I’m getting stuck with extra work because I don’t have kids

3. I have log my work on the days I work from home

I’m a third-year attorney, and I started a new, non-private-sector job three months ago. I’ve had some frustrations and trouble adjusting to this place, but I did appreciate that it had a hybrid work option. Today, though, I found out that there’s been an existing requirement (which my supervisor only informed me about today) to send a log every week summarizing the work we did on the days we worked from home. It’s a company requirement, not from my supervisor. She explained that she’s waived the requirement for senior attorneys, but the junior attorneys still need to do it — in other words, I read it as not for billing purposes, but to “prove” that we’re doing work on days we work from home.

I’m furious. The pandemic started during my time in law school, so I’ve had hybrid or remote work since even before I passed the bar. I’ve never had this requirement at any place I’ve worked as an attorney or law clerk — not firms, nonprofits, or the federal judiciary. In law, if you weren’t actually working on your days you worked from home, it would show in your total work product (i.e., not drafting enough briefs or filing enough cases). So this requirement makes me feel that my job doesn’t trust me to manage my time, even though I’ve already done extensive work during the short time I’ve been here and gone far over the 40 hours a week (not due to my speed, but due to the amount of work). Every time I go to fill out the form, I’m furious, even though it only requires a summary for each day. Two questions: (1) am I overthinking this, and (2) regardless, how do I get over this enough to do the log?

Well, first: yes, it’s a bad requirement. And yes, effective managers are able to spot it if people aren’t being productive on their work-from-home days.

But “furious” seems excessive, particularly if you otherwise like the job. Since the requirement is coming from above your manager, it’s likely that this is a firm that wasn’t fully comfortable with remote work (as many aren’t) and this is key to them allowing it. Find it eye-rolly, by all means, but anger is an overreaction. See the log as an investment in keeping hybrid work available to you and others there.

Also, though … is other stuff going on that’s making you unhappy with this job? This is the kind of thing that will grate far more if you’re already not happy for other reasons.

4. Can I ask my old job to take my name off their website?

I left my last job about four months ago after almost six years there. It’s a small business and, for context, there were two other people doing the same job as me, although there should have been four. We’d been looking for another person for at least six months with no results. About two months after I left, one of the two remaining people also left so they now just have one person doing this job and no real leads for anyone else.

Both of us who left are still listed on the business website “meet the team.” I don’t know if this is deliberate in order to make it look like they are still fully staffed, or just the manager not doing her job. Unfortunately, I didn’t leave on the best of terms with my manager — she was a very nice person but did absolutely no actual managing. If you wanted to sit around all day on your phone, no one would say anything. This was made worse when she hired her daughter to be an “assistant.” Anyway, I don’t want to be associated with this business anymore, and I would like my name off the website. Would it be inappropriate for me to email my former manager and ask her to take me off?

It’s not inappropriate to request that. You can’t force them to do it, but you can absolutely ask them to. I would frame it this way: “I noticed the website still lists me as an active employee. Would you please remove my name so that anywhere I apply in the future doesn’t mistakenly think I am still there? Thank you, and I hope you’re doing well.”

5. How do I tell my former boss to stop digging into how I am?

The full context for this situation goes back a couple of years. My department was going through a reorg right as I was going out on parental leave, and I went from having one report to being one of two newly promoted team leads. I came back from leave to a company that had gone through significant change and to a job in which I didn’t really know what was expected from me. Additionally, we went through a serious lull in work and I had no real projects. My counterpart had been leading both teams while I was gone, so I really floundered. I also was dealing with becoming a parent, so I spent my energy trying on that rather than work. Somewhere in there, the powers that be decided they wanted one person in charge of revenue for our area rather than two. I was still trying to get my feet under me and told my boss that I didn’t want that responsibility, so it went to the other lead, but I still had multiple people reporting to me and some other responsibilities.

Fast forward to now and there is another reorg, in part to make more of a triangle reporting structure. The outcome of this is that I have essentially been demoted. I now report to my previous peer, some of the people who were reporting to me now report to him, and all of my higher-level responsibilities are gone. I tried to make a case for moving into a different reporting structure with some different higher level responsibilities but was told no.

I am angry and humiliated. No one in my reporting structure ever said to me that this sucks and isn’t a reflection of my performance. There keep being little reminders of what was taken away that turn the screw a little more (like someone asking me about a standing meeting that I am no longer a part of). Being at work is miserable.

I have worked with my (previous) boss for a long time and have told her quite plainly that I am not happy about this. And every time we meet, she keeps asking how I am. I say I’m fine, but she pushes and I end up crying in front of her. At this point, I just want to be left alone to do the job I am left with. I have a lot of feelings about how this ended up happening, some of which are directed toward my company, some of which are directed inward toward my own decisions, and some of which are directed at the universe toward the horrible timing of the promotion and baby coming together. None of these feelings are my old boss’ business. As far as I know, there are no issues with my performance since the change, and I’m sure my old boss is coming from a good place, but how do I tell her to leave me alone with this? And is it possible to do it without crying in front of her again?

(Yes, I am job searching but my industry is in a tough spot with recent layoffs affecting a lot of candidates I am competing with, so I anticipate it being a long search.)

“I appreciate you checking in on how I’m doing, but it ends up stirring things up that I’m trying to put to rest. In the interests of my being able to move forward with the situation as it stands, I’d be grateful if we can just take it as read that I’m doing okay and talk about about other things instead!”

And then if she does it anyway, be prepared with a subject change to push the conversation to something else.

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{ 76 comments }

{ 76 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A reminder: We’ve had a recent increase in trolling here, and you can help me by NOT RESPONDING to it. If you engage, you are ensuring that troll will reappear. Instead, please flag the comment for me (just reply with a link, which will send your comment to moderation so I’ll see it).

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  2. Out of office, out of mind*

    LW2 (“I have log my work on the days I work from home”), go back to the office or fill out the forms.

    The reason you’re being asked to fill out these forms is because you’re working from home, and the company wants to know that you’re focusing on your duties. If you like work-from-home and are fortunate enough to find a law firm that agrees to it, filling out a short form is easily a reasonable trade-off.

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    1. Cmdrshprd*

      “I’ve never had this requirement at any place I’ve worked as an attorney or law clerk — not firms, nonprofits, or the federal judiciary.”

      I’m curious if OP is keeping track of hours for billing purposes still? Most firms usually require tracking billable hours down to every 6 minutes/0.1, working from home or the office. I get how grating it can be if it seems that you only have to report when you are home but not at the office. But usually a lot (majority?) of lawyers have keep track of their hours daily.

      I worked in a non-profit law firm that didn’t have any bills hour requirements, or pay based on billable hours, but still required tracking of time for potential fee requests.

      Tracking time/work is not unreasonable. I would say even more so if OP works with multiple “senior” attorneys/partners. If you get work streams from multiple people it can be hard for a “supervisor” to accurately get a sense of what you work on.

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      1. emmelemm*

        Yeah, most attorneys are used to tracking their time in six-minute increments, which seems excruciating, but how else are they going to bill?

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        1. Cmdrshprd*

          It is, I think most people get used to it. I hated it, I worked in a paraprof. role that need to track hours. It was a big reason a moved to an admin role that didn’t require tracking my hours.

          it wasn’t because I didn’t do enough work, but I just had a hard time keeping track. often I started working on thing A for a few minutes, then while something was loading/processing work on thing B or send email C, then turn back to A for a few more minutes etc…

          Now I just clock in/out, I can spin 2-3 plates at a time with out worrying or stop to keep track.

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          1. Coverage Associate*

            Yes, I rather commend OP for entering time so contemporaneously. Even when I’m entering my time daily, I’m thinking of it as the major tasks of the day, which I then break down into the relevant parts, so I would already have the substance for this form.

            That said, I can see the frustration of one. more. form. Law firms and courts are great at developing forms with inputs that no one actually uses, or that are mandatory fields even though they apply in only rare circumstances. If this isn’t just OPM’s 5 bullet points, but for a single work day, that would be annoying, especially as…it’s not billable.

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          2. Richard Hershberger*

            I years ago swore off any job that includes tracking billables. It was simultaneously excruciating and featured much BS.

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      2. KateM*

        I had the same impression, that attorneys do especially minute time tracking, so I was surprised to hear that OP had never done that before!

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    2. Jinni*

      I once worked in house before Covid that instituted this kind of tracking because *waves hands* no one could figure out what attorneys did all day – even though all in house ‘client’ work was tracked for cost center purposes. I just didn’t do it? I think it went away. Can’t say because I left while this particular battle was being waged…

      I had the clout to do this because they weren’t going to fire me. In my case, I think it was because there was some very poor management where many people at the org did not work. (As in they just didn’t come in and got paid.) It was the equivalent of the group message that really is about targeting the bad actors.

      Anway, I’d just submit the billing sheet. Don’t you have to account for billable and non-billable time anyway?

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      1. Edwina*

        The OP said they didn’t think it was for billing purposes. And it seems unlikely that it’s for billing since no one told them about it for 3 months.

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        1. Cmdrshprd*

          Right the work from home tracking is not for billing, but the question is isn’t OP already keeping a detailed log of daily work, for billing purposes. with the idea of they already log time very detailed having to provide a general summary report is not much more work.

          If they don’t keep track of their detailed billable time, I can understand more the frustration. But overall id say the level of anger/outrage seems like a lot.

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      2. CityMouse*

        It’s also not unheard of in the public sector if you’re doing work from different funding sources and need to bill certain allocated funds.

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    4. AnonForThis*

      I’ve done this a lot for client facing roles, and never minded, because it was for billing. They are asking her to do this purely because they do not trust her. Your username makes it clear you have a particular view on WFH, but many of us do in fact work productively there.

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  3. My Boss is Dumber than Yours*

    I really hate when bosses try to make everyone “work it out among themselves” while also caring about the validity or importance of someone’s reason for wanting time off. I once had a boss try to pull that stunt when I was the only unmarried (but in a long-term, live-in partnership that exists to this day) and childless team member. The others all flatly refused to work anything besides 9–5, even though nights and weekends were quite common. Boss flat out told me it was the whole team’s responsibility, but I was the only one without a good excuse. But then, the others on my team got upset that I was getting two weekdays off when they got none, and claimed it was discrimination (our state protected familial status) for them not to get at least one weekday off. And boss rolled with it…so I was stuck being scheduled for four weekdays, Saturday, on call Sundays and nights, and the on call backup for my one weekday off the for the same salary as my coworkers who worked four days a week with no on-call. Because “fairness”.

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    2. Shakti*

      That’s horrible!! I’ve seen the work it out amongst yourselves model go horribly wrong by all the conscientious people getting stuck with later shifts and the rest of the people simply sitting back and not having to do anything inconvenient. My husband got stuck with late shifts 3 weeks in a row and some team members didn’t have any for months. Thankfully he was promoted and didn’t have to do that anymore, but he always made sure no one was stuck in that situation again

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    3. Alz*

      I 100% agree that this is a management issue if it doesn’t work out easily. Sometimes it is nice where one person really wants early starts and the other wants (or doesn’t care) about lates.

      If you do have to self-determine I once had a group thing (not work) that worked really well – we were given 100 “points” for the year to spend on selecting our days off and whoever had bid more “points” won the day off (and everyone else who had bid on that day got their points back). It meant that the guy who had a wedding on the 15th of May put all 100 points on that day and he knew that he would lose out on pretty much every other request that clashed. Someone else put 5 points on a bunch of days, they were out bid on a few of the days so they missed out on a couple of the ones they would have liked but got the majority. Also, it meant if you had consistently missed out on your chosen days at the beginning of the year you had a lot of points left by the end of the year so had almost guarantee choices by the December. We never had an issue where we had two “100” priories (but also everyone was reasonable and friends)

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    4. The turtle moves*

      I also had this early on in my work life when I was the only member of my team who didn’t have either young kids or elderly parents to take care of.

      I don’t think I would’ve minded so much if my manager understood what my actual job was and didn’t actively get in the way of me doing it while also fussing that I wasn’t.

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    5. Vancouver*

      We had a system I liked at OldJob. We were in a professional role that required coverage 365 days a year, usually from 9 to 5 but sometimes 8-6 or more extended hours.

      We rotated days off every four months, and everyone was guaranteed to have at least one period where they had the “best” days off (Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday) and one period where they had the “worst” days off (Tuesday/Wednesday, for example). They published the schedule for the entire year in October or November of the year prior; sometimes the start/end times would change a bit, but you always knew what days you’d be working.

      I asked to be given the “bad” weekends consistently. My manager asked two or three times to make sure I actually wanted it and wasn’t just being influenced by colleagues with kids/partners. Only then did they approve an exception for me, and I happily worked Thursday-Monday for years! I loved commuting when there was no traffic and being free to do appointments (doctor, bank, etc.) without missing work.

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  4. lyonite*

    LW1: I understand not enjoying work-related social events, but particularly as a higher-level manager, showing that too obviously can make people feel like it’s them you don’t want to be around. One of the “benefits” of these kind of events is to allow people to interact across levels, and you might be giving the impression that interacting with the hoi polloi is beneath you. Even if you’re not, framing your gracious participation as a way of supporting your reports might make you feel better about doing it.

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    1. Cmdrshprd*

      You make a good point.
      I think also if the event is “required” for employees it makes it harder to swallow when a senior person is also obviously against it.

      This is kinda like parenting, if you are really against something rule/event you need to lobby in private for it to not be a thing, but in front of the kids/public you need to put on a united front.

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    2. allathian*

      This is how I see it, too.

      I don’t think there’s any need to fake enthusiasm, just to show up, circulate, talk to people (especially your reports), and leave early. Because let’s be honest, if you’re so unenthusiastic that your reports are *complaining to your boss* about it, it’s pretty bad.

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    3. The Prettiest Curse*

      Exactly this. If being your authentic self is giving off “ugh, why am I hanging around with these insignificant peons?” energy, then unfortunately you do need to be inauthentic in this scenario. Part of the reason you’re at these events as senior management is specifically so that people can get face time and build a relationship with you in a more relaxed setting where it may be easier to approach you than usual.

      As an events planner who is an introvert, I totally understand that not everyone loves people-ing, because I don’t always love it either. (And I don’t want people to come to my events if they genuinely don’t want to be there.) But people-ing is expected if you are senior management at the vast majority of employers, and it clearly is here. A good solution might be to attend for an hour or 90 minutes, then rush off. People generally assume that senior management are busy and important, so they will just assume you have something vital to do even if you don’t.

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      1. UKDancer*

        This I’m not massively keen on corporate events either but part of being in a leadership role in the companies I’ve worked in involves being visible and positive when they occur.

        I knew when I took a management job that it was one of the things I had to do so I did it. Would I rather be dancing salsa or at home doing the garden? Yes but atrending events goes with my job.

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      2. Jenesis*

        As long as regular employees are allowed to attend for the same amount of time without it reflecting poorly on them. Their lives aren’t less busy just because they’re paid less.

        After all, if you’re senior management (depending on how many levels in the company there are), and you absolutely loathe corporate social events – you have a certain amount of decision-making clout to swing around, you can make it so there are less of them, or at least less of the aspects you hate. Your reports don’t have that power.

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    4. AcademiaNut*

      As someone in a senior leadership role, it might help to think of yourself as one of the *hosts* of the event, rather than as a guest. It’s part of the job to be gracious and welcoming, and make other people comfortable.

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      2. Alexander Graham Yell*

        Oh I really like this framing. I was thinking along the lines of “Can you find 3 things you like about these – even if it’s as small as getting to stand up after sitting down all day – and focus on that for a while?”

        But the “hosting” framework is exactly right. Not all of hosting is fun or glamorous or exciting, but it makes people feel good and feel taken care of, and that’s important to do. The OP’s job here isn’t “Attend and enjoy myself” it’s “attend and make sure my employees have what they need to enjoy themselves.”

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    5. Chin Up*

      Yes, it boggles the mind to think of how rude LW1 must be coming across for multiple people to be talking to their boss about it. “I’m very busy” Guess what superstar, other people are too! If the disdain in this letter shows up in person…

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    6. londonedit*

      Yep. If you’re at the point where people can tell you’re unenthusiastic about being there, and at the point where people are complaining to your boss about it, then it’s far, far too obvious. I’d wager very few people actually actively *enjoy* going to work events – in my job we have to go to a fair few book launches, and although I’m a pretty social sort of person it’s never my favourite way to spend an evening. It’s tiring being in ‘work mode’ for an evening and it gets tedious talking to people about their book ideas (everyone has a book idea) and work and processes and all the rest of it. But it’s part of the job, so you show up, you chat to the people you need to chat to, you have a drink, you say congratulations to the author and how wonderful it was working with them (even if it wasn’t), and if you can you stay and help pack up at the end, because that’s the polite thing to do. Would I usually rather be doing something else than drinking a glass of cheap white wine and listening to an author talk about themselves? Of course. But you have to be professional, and you absolutely can’t make it obvious that you don’t want to be there.

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    7. I take tea*

      I had a boss who really wasn’t a people person and I could tell that it was somewhat of an effort to attend the parties. But the thing is, I appreciateted the effort, because it was sincere. It was not “eugh, I couldn’t care less”, it was more a question of being a bit stiff and awkward. I never minded that. People can tell the difference.

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    8. rebelwithmouseyhair*

      yeah this is a situation you have to be gracious about. Some people love these things and others think it’s a waste of time, but if you have to go you do have to smile at people and make small talk and all the rest of it.

      It’s really hard for me as an introvert, but I take a deep breath and do it. I’m all peopled out at the end and probably need the morning off the next day to recharge, but I’m also usually glad I did it, I often learn stuff that people would never put in an email.

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  5. LouLouisana*

    Re: OP 2 – The new big boss or you and your coworkers need to design the schedule without regard for anyone having children. Leave that fact out of the discussion. Until there is something/someone who can make the schedule fair, equal, reasonable (for all), and transparent, then go back to the schedule your previous boss created.

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    1. Cmdrshprd*

      “The new big boss or you and your coworkers need to design the schedule without regard for anyone having children.”

      I think I disagree, people don’t need to pretend that some don’t have kids, but it also can’t be a get out of jail free card.

      If someone says I really need to pick up my kid from school on Mondays and Wednesdays and need to leave at 5pm, and can’t work those days, that’s fine, they can’t say I need to pick up my kid everyday and can’t close ever.

      But OP also gets to ask for accomodations for their own schedule even without kids, for their own needs.

      I think maybe some kind of ranked choice voting or something similar, like 1 jane get to pick 1 shift, jone picks next 2, james pick next 3, then jane picks 4, then jone picks 5.

      or everyone selects their preferred shifts and when their are conflicts people have a jousting competition/aka lottery for who gets that shift.

      Generally I don’t think removing people’s home needs is the right way to go, they just need to be balanced in a way that is equal fair to everyone.

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      1. Scheduling OP*

        I really like the ranked choice idea! I’ll have to see if we can try that next. We’re into the double-digits on attempts to draw up the newest schedule, so maybe that will solve this finally.

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      2. Disappointed With the Staff*

        From the letter “both my coworkers are coming to the table with very limited hours. Both have children and need to come in and leave at very specific times to do dropoff/pickup”

        It sounds as though the problem is more like can never start before 9 or work after 3, and definitely never nights or weekends.

        AskAManager deals with this pretty regularly, and the answer is always that people who are not parents have to be allowed to have lives outside work as well. If only so that they too can have the chance to become parents if that’s what they want.

        The other option is to pay extra for the unwanted shifts. Traditionally it was time and a quarter outside office hours, plus time and a half on weekends and after 40 hours, also double time on public holidays. But heck, having an auction makes just as much sense. I’ve climbing into a technically empty raw sewage pit before (wearing proper PPE) because the boss was willing to pay me enough to make that worth doing. Lots of problems can be solved with money!

        As someone else suggested, you could even do that with “points”, where each person gets 100 pints every week to bid on shifts, and you could even let unused points carry over.

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        1. nodramalama*

          i don’t think thats true, because the previous schedule was working. it sounds less like they can’t, and more they don’t want to.

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        2. bamcheeks*

          I think this is key, and I do think it’s where they probably need to get management involved. There is a big difference between “Yes I technically could, but it would be a lot easier if I didn’t” and “I absolutely can’t”, but it’s very difficult to tease that difference out as a peer than as a manager, where you’ve got the authority to state that this is a requirement of the job. You might manage it if you can use a robust system like people expressing preferred working times and trying to make sure everyone gets one, but only if everyone agrees that fairness is the goal.

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  6. GammaGirl1908*

    LW2 (scheduling around families), you are allowed to approach this with the mindset that having kids is not a trump card for scheduling. Their scheduling preferences are not, like, worth an extra 15 points over yours because they have to do with their kids. Their conflicts are important, yes, but your need not to take every hit is important, too. You can put your foot down about that without needing a specific reason not to take a disproportionate number of the undesirable shifts. “I should not have to take a disproportionate number of the undesirable shifts” is more than enough of a reason. You don’t have to back down on that just because someone invokes their children.

    If that means that there aren’t enough people to cover the shifts that need to be covered, then the answer is that there need to be more people on the team, not that you have to take every hit. THAT is why you may need to bring in the big boss. That person needs to be aware if there isn’t enough manpower to do what needs to be done.

    Reply ↓
    1. Bird names*

      Yep, all of this, especially your second paragraph. LW#2 shouldn’t need to stretch themself to cover all the gaps in the current schedule.

      Reply ↓
    2. Scheduling OP*

      You’re totally right that I need to see my preferences as just as valid as theirs, it ultimately doesn’t matter why I don’t want to work a terrible shift! Especially since I’m still willing to compromise and take my fair share.

      Reply ↓
    3. Angstrom*

      It may help to think of it not as “They have children” but “They are responsible for picking something up every day at 3”. It makes it easier to see that there are options if the emotional weight of “children!” is taken out of the argument.

      Reply ↓
  7. Looper*

    LW5- I’m so sorry for everything you’re going through. If you don’t trust your boss to not hear “I don’t want to keep talking about this” as an invitation to escalate, you can also just lie! “I’m finding my footing”, “I’m finding balance”, “things are coming together”, “I’m cruising along”, whatever breezy platitude that conveys “this conversation is not going beyond surface deep”.

    The only true advice I can say is allow yourself to let go of shame and the coulda/woulda/shoulda. You made the best choices you could with the information you had in the situation you were dealt at the time. And having both been in a position of demotion and also having a manger demoted to a peer, unless it was for some egregious event or catastrophic blow up, most people are not going to see this as a “failure” on your part. It honestly doesn’t sound like this reorg was fully communicated (or communicated well) so it may be that folks don’t really know what to say, not that they think anything negative.

    Reply ↓
    1. Cmdrshprd*

      “allow yourself to let go of shame and the coulda/woulda/shoulda.”

      I second this, there is no shame in taking a step back and/or deciding management is not for me. you also say it is essentially a demotion, but if your title and pay stayed the same I would push back that it is s demotion.

      Just because someone a previously junior person is above you know is not commentary on you. Maybe they are really good at managing people, age and skills don’t always correlate. Having a prior report get promoted above you is not a sign of being a bad manager but rather a good a one. Not to take anything away from them, but you likely helped them along in the career and helped the company develop that employee into their current position.

      Also I would examine if you truly want to move up and be in supervisory position over lots of people. Society tells us we need to keep moving up and everyone should strive to be a CEO, but that is not true. compAnies need people to be really good individual contributors and or 1st/2nd line managers/supervisors.

      If you do want to move up great go for it, but don’t move up just because you feel you should. I’ve known several people who eventually learned to be good great managers but they hated it and would have rather been doing the work.

      Reply ↓
      1. CityMouse*

        I managed on an acting basis, decided I hated it and then when back to doing my regular job. I was just exhausted by the end of the day and I didn’t think the raise made up for the large increase in hours I worked. I don’t feel shame for deciding it wasn’t for me, it was making me miserable. I got great performance reviews but was heading towards extreme burnout.

        Reply ↓
  8. FunkyMunky*

    LW1 – I find it odd that it’s just such a big deal for people to actually approach your boss about it. Can these busy bodies find something else to concern themselves with?
    I disagree with advice given completely. Regardless of being a higher up or not, we don’t owe it to anyone to be super social. The fact that you participate when you can and you encourage your reports to attend should be more than enough!

    Reply ↓
    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I disagree: the OP is a senior management, so being social and approachable at such events is an intrinsic part of her job, not a distraction from her job.

      The much higher pay at her level goes with much more responsibility and requires a much higher public profile within the organisation, often outside too. There is usually far less sitting at a desk in an office and a lot more getting out and about, social interaction, showing up for events, pressing the flesh etc.

      Reply ↓
    2. CHRISTOPHER FRANKLIN*

      I am going to another one of those people who disagree with you. A long time ago, I had a job that included phlebotomy: I had to draw the blood of a human control and experimental subject three times a week. They received a stipend but it was very important not a) scare them or b) hurt them so they wouldn’t come back. We were trained to draw blood pretty painlessly (I was a super control so I was drawn at least once a week) which came in handy since the first few draws I did involved our clinic director’s guest, and two children. Part of the job was to be reassuring and professional. If you can hood it together at a social event, can you expect employees to come to you with problems? For most jobs that are outside of server rooms, a certain ability to act like areal human being is required.

      Reply ↓
    3. PurpleCattledog*

      Except it’s part of the job. Big boss is making it quite clear this is part of the job, not a fun extra.

      LW is in the wrong job if she wants to say sure doesn’t have to do social with colleagues.

      Reply ↓
    4. Cmdrshprd*

      “Regardless of being a higher up or not, we don’t owe it to anyone to be super social.”

      The advice wasn’t to be super social, but rather to be pleasant and/or neutral.
      You don’t have to go and pretend to be super happy, excited, and over the moon to be at the event, but rather that people should not be able to tell you hate being there and think it’s a waste of time.

      But I also disagree, being higher up does mean more responsibility, attending most/all company events and being social or “super social” can be a part of that.

      Wanting leaders that are invested or pretend to be in the company and employees is not unreasonable.

      There will always be s
      parts of your job you don’t enjoy but still need to get done.

      Reply ↓
    5. Nodramalama*

      They’re not busy bodies. They’re being asked to attend events and their boss is clearly signalling they don’t like it. It’s 1. Unprofessional, 2. Annoying for those people who also don’t want to be there but are being asked to and 3. Probably comes across as rude.

      Reply ↓
    6. Ellis Bell*

      Sort of. It would be indeed odd for people to police people on or below their level for not being hyper-social, but the very fact that people “notice” OP is there “out of obligation” is pretty bad for a senior leader. Leaders are like the hosts, or co hosts of these things. Imagine going to something you’ve been invited to and the hosts act like they’re bored, or don’t want you there, or they are simply going through the motions; you’d push back and say why. It’s about the comfort of the people you manage and signalling to others how to behave. It’s pretty alarming to have OP describe actively participating as “inauthentic” and not part of their core duties. It’s even more alarming for them to describe their boss as “stressed” so flippantly, and while they say their job is okay for now, their read on this is so off that I wonder if they actually know how thin this ice really is. It’s really common for people to be be promoted into management because of their awesome hard skills, or industry knowledge but not because of their management skills (and behaviour at events is a key skill). OP is clearly valued, but, even if this skill is a stretch for them they should take this feedback seriously.

      Reply ↓
    7. Irish Teacher.*

      I think there are two possibilities here. If the LW is really just not being very enthusiastic but is being professional and gracious, then yeah, reporting that is bizarre. And it is possible the LW works for a toxic company that expects everybody to be best friends and get really involved in everything.

      But it’s also possible the LW is coming across as more negative than she realises and seems actually resentful about having to be there or hostile to others.

      And the truth might well lie in between. The people making the complaints might be particularly sensitive to unfriendliness.

      And honestly, even in the first case, it seems like that is the culture and not participating could damage the LW’s reputation, reduce their capital, etc even if their job is not at risk. It might be that this is not the right culture for the LW and they would be better off jobsearching or it might be that this is just one disagreeable duty they can tolerate.

      Reply ↓
    8. Peggy Sue*

      I can almost guarantee based on the tone of the letter that they are not being super social, they are more likely being super rude, and yes, it is a part of many people’s jobs at a certain level. It certainly is at mine.

      Reply ↓
      1. Allonge*

        Exactly.

        I would even argue that it’s better not to show up to these events than to be there but rude /unapproachable.

        There is nothing wrong with not liking them, but, especially as management, once you are there, you are working and need to be somewhere between a polite, neutral baseline and looking like you are enjoying yourself. If that feels inauthentic – well, does every salesperson or front desk person always feel upbeat, warm and welcoming? Are they expected to project such a thing anyway? Same thing here.

        Reply ↓
  9. KJC*

    LW1 – There are probably plenty of other people who don’t want to be at these work events also, but they are there and sucking it up, because their job depends on it. To be expected to participate and be a “team player” while watching someone above you not put in the same effort and/or act like it’s beneath them is demoralizing, to say the least. It’s not inauthentic – it’s actually part of the job responsibilities – to act like you care about a client in a meeting with them, to act like you care about what you’re presenting while standing in front of the boardroom, to act like you care about other department head’s needs when they ask your team for support, and yes, to act like you care about encouraging the team of people that work underneath you at required work events. Being pleasant at a certain level is a work responsibility.

    Reply ↓
    1. The Prettiest Curse*

      Thank you for pointing out that this type of sulking (because that’s what this OP is essentially doing) also has an impact on event staff. I’d never expect senior management to gush about the events that I organise, but it would be a bit demoralising if they were acting like they would sooner be almost anywhere else.

      Planning events is skilled, under-paid and under-appreciated work. A lot of the time, we’re working long hours and going above and beyond to put on events and nobody even thanks us. A bit of politeness and being gracious to your hard-working events team costs nothing and goes a very long way, especially coming from senior management.

      Reply ↓
      1. Thank You Staff*

        I always send HR a thank you for the little events they do because I used to be an event planner and as you say, it takes work. The tone of that letter really bothered me. “I’m very busy,” I’m sure other people are busy too LW1.

        Reply ↓
        1. Allonge*

          Also, if OP is there but acting neutral-pleasant, the event will not actually take more time than if they are grumpy. So ‘I am busy’ is not a great excuse for this.

          Reply ↓
      2. Lizard the Second*

        I’d never expect senior management to gush about the events that I organise, but it would be a bit demoralising if they were acting like they would sooner be almost anywhere else.

        As an ordinary employee, I often feel a bit cynical when senior management gushes over company events. Like, oh, they’re just putting it on because it’s their job.

        But you’ve made me realise that I would be disturbed if they didn’t put on that positive face and grinched instead. Like, it’s literally their job!

        Reply ↓
  10. Nodramalama*

    Lw1 this kind of seems like part of your job as senior management. You have to do extra stuff outside of your day to day work, like attending corporate retreats.

    LW3 I also dont really see the big deal. It seems like a pretty small trade off in order to work from home to me.

    Reply ↓
  11. Kella*

    OP1, first off, it might help if you started considering these work gatherings as one of your tasks that you need to get done, and to see appearing pleasantly neutral as part of your job performance. Your company has determined that this socializing is in the best interest of its business, which makes it just as important as your normal job responsibilities. Remember, too, that if people who report to you are there and are trying to socialize with you, it has a disproportionate impact for you to be surly or unapproachable towards them, as someone in a leadership role.

    If you truly don’t know why you are coming across so strongly as not wanting to be there, consider these things: 1. What is your body language doing when you’re there? Are your arms crossed? Are you slumped in your seat? Are you physically turned away from the central activity? Practice having present and engaged body language, the way you might do during an important meeting.

    2. What is your face doing while you’re there? Where are your eyes spending their time? Are you frowning or looking bored? Are you looking at the other people there or off in the distance? Practice a pleasantly neutral face (you don’t have to plaster a smile, just find something that doesn’t look actively unhappy.)

    3. When people talk to you, do you engage in conversation or do you keep your answers as short and conversation-ending as possible? If someone makes a joke, are you at least offering a polite smile or chuckle in response? If you find these types of conversations draining or challenging when you’re on the spot, make a list ahead of time of neutral questions you can ask your coworkers if you’re roped into a conversation where you don’t have much to say. People tend to love to talk about themselves and depending on how casual the conversation is, the topic of pets are almost always a quick hack to get people to chatter on with minimal need for additional input.

    And if you try all this and it’s too excruciating or doesn’t seem to be working, a last strategy to try: Make yourself a bingo card, and fill each square with something you think might happen at the event. “[Person] makes a joke about X” or “[coworker] complains about the food.” Then make it a game for yourself to pay enough attention that you notice if you get to cross off a box on your bingo card. It’ll make even annoying, frustrating situations more entertaining and keep your focus on the people around you instead of on your boredom.

    Reply ↓
  12. Eleventh year attorney*

    what the hell job could you possibly have had where you’ve never encountered the concept of billable hours?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sar*

      I’m in year fourteen of my legal career and have never billed. I’ve worked exclusively in non-profits (who had a contract with a per-case rate) and in government—including my law school internships. I have picked these jobs because I would SUCK at billing, and if I had to pseudo-bill solely because management had an issue with wfh, yes, I would be livid. I’m not paid enough to deal with billable hours.

      Reply ↓
  13. Daria grace*

    #3. I think you’re channeling your frustration about more complex issues around work load and hours into this one easier to define target. Reporting like this can be annoying but it’s not unreasonable. Even in situations where they trust their staff and there isn’t billable hours in play there’s lots of reasons they may want to know how you’re using your time. They may want to know if one particular client or task is taking up too much of everyone’s time. They may want to know where particular projects are up to. They may want to identify things people are spending time on that may be better allocated to new/different staff. Basic info about what staff are spending time on is an important management tool, especially in situations like yours where people are working too many hours and they need to reduce that.

    Reply ↓
  14. Frosty*

    #4 If applicable, you could also mention that this could be confusing to clients (or vendors, or other third parties that company works with), who might still try to reach out to you to get their business with the company done.

    Reply ↓
  15. VP of Monitoring Employees' LinkedIn Profiles*

    #1…

    I may be the odd one out, but there are definite echoes of Nineteen Eighty-Four (the dystopian novel by Orwell) going on here…

    (1) OP has been reported to the Thought Police for “face crime” multiple times.

    (2) OP now realizes, as Winston Smith did at the end of the novel, that “You must love Big Brother. It is not enough to obey him: you must love him.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Allonge*

      It’s really not about loving the company though.

      OP needs to act and appear civil in a company event where they are part of senior management. Acting like you are not obviously hating the proceedings is primary school-level expectation and part of living in a society.

      If this is intolerable, OP is welcome to take a non-management job.

      Reply ↓
      1. londonedit*

        Yes, exactly. And it doesn’t even have to be a management job – I mentioned further up, but in my job in book publishing we are expected, if we’re able to, to attend book launches for our authors, and the occasional other work event (like going to a book fair, or helping to sell books at a show, or whatever). If you go to a book launch then yes, part of you being there means chatting to people, being professional, being polite, engaging in conversation, and making sure the author has a lovely time. You can’t turn up and be sullen. Is it my favourite way of spending an evening? No, of course not. But you turn up and you act the part for a couple of hours. It’s not exactly the worst thing in the world.

        Reply ↓
      2. Myrin*

        VP is possibly referring to this part: “I’m supposed to like the activity itself. I’m told I should want to do the thing.” which, if that’s really how it was presented to OP, is completely unrealistic – one does not simply start to genuinely like something just because someone else told them to – but also not in any way insurmountable; if OP projects reasonably well enough (and possibly simply lies and says “I’m having a good time here!”), nobody will be the wiser.

        Reply ↓
        1. bamcheeks*

          I would be interested to know whether the boss really thinks “you are supposed to like the activity itself” or whether they mean something more like, “you should see the value in this activity and prioritise doing it well even if it’s not your favourite part of the job”. I wouldn’t judge someone for not liking that kind of social activity, but if I had someone in senior leadership who thought it was a waste of their time and a distraction from “doing their tasks” I’d have questions.

          Reply ↓
  16. Rew123*

    LW 3. I also have to log my work when WFH. Iniatially we had to make a plan and submit it and then send a report what we actually did. In 2020 when everyone moved WFH we didn’t have to make the plans anymore. But we still have to report our work every day and send it once a month. Going on 5 years now. It still sucks. Everyone still hates it. It won’t get better. I hate the stupid Excel and depending on my mood I fill it up either vaguely or with care.

    Reply ↓
  17. bamcheeks*

    LW1, there’s a few things here that would make me question whether you’re the right person for a senior leadership role.

    You definitely don’t have to love social events or away days: in fact, it is extremely normal to be in senior leadership and find them hard bloody work— but that’s because they are! Yes, some senior leaders enjoy them and find them easy and fun, but that’s true of any work task. Personally, even though I like socialising and I am an extrovert, I find it very hard work doing social events as a (not senior) manager for the same reason I find teaching or running events hard work: because I’m on. It’s not about me, it’s about creating a safe / fun / enjoyable / engaging activity for the people I’m managing, teaching or hosting, and that means I’m performing friendly, welcoming, relaxed, interested etc, whilst also not truly relaxing because people will put extra weight on my words and making sure I’m strictly professional and careful about what I say. That’s bloody hard work, but caring what people who work under you see and think of you is part of the job of senior leadership.

    Now, I do think that there are plenty of other ways of being a good leader that don’t require you to be great at in-person socialising events. I’ve worked for some great leaders who built solid, supportive and open relationships with the people through one-to-ones, a really great Slack game, absolute reliability at getting back to people, showing a positive interest in people and their development, or whatever. If they looked awkward and uncomfortable at more unstructured social events, we tended to give them a lot of grace because they’d put the work in to gain our trust and respect through other ways. The fact that people you are responsible for aren’t giving you that grace — and you don’t seem to see that as a problem — would raise concerns that you don’t see building and maintaining those relationships as part of your job.

    If your main priorities are “doing your tasks” and “not stressing out your boss” — what exactly do you think the “lead” of senior leadership is, and are you sure it’s really the right track for you?

    Reply ↓
  18. Glengarry Glenn Close*

    I can understand not feeling enthusiastic about all the events/obligations, but I do agree this is one of those things you have to suck up as a leader.

    I don’t know about feeling inauthentic, but if multiple people are talking to your boss about it to the point that he’s had to mention it several times you probably want to nip that in the bud

    Not comparing you to this person, but it somewhat reminded me of the letter from the woman who treated her good looking employee poorly to the point that clients were mentioning it. You might not think what you’re doing is a big deal but if that many people are noticing..

    Reply ↓

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