Ask a Manager

It’s wee answer Wednesday — seven short answers to seven short questions. Here we go…

1. Do I have to be paid for attending meetings outside my regular hours?

I’m working at a restaurant part-time while I do a bunch of contract work. It’s an hourly + tips job with no benefits in Washington, DC. (We’re lucky enough that they at least pay us $8.50/hour + tips and are really good employers in almost every sense, which makes the job worth it.)

Every month they close early to have a mandatory meeting from 9-11 pm. I’ve worked a lot of part-time jobs like this and never not gotten paid for meetings–but when I went in today and asked if it was time to clock in, they said “we don’t clock in for meetings here.” Is it legal to require hourly employees come into a meeting at work for two hours a month without paying them?

When I mentioned that this might be violating labor laws to another employee, she said that pointing something out was likely to make the owner angry and was likely to result in “scheduling consequences.” Personally, I think that the management has been pretty reasonable about most things up to this point and just might not know that this is an issue–but then, I’m also pretty new around here.

Nope, it’s not legal. If it’s a required meeting, it’s work and they need to pay you for it. I’d say something like this to the manager you have the best rapport with: “Since it’s a required meeting, I think it counts as work time according to the laws on this stuff, and we should clock in, right?” Start with the assumption that it’s just ignorance of the law (as more often than not, it is), and proceed from there.

2. How to quit a job you like

I have only quit jobs when I was unhappy, and in those cases you suggested resigning by saying something like: “I want to let you know that after four years with Chocolate Teapots Inc., I’ve made the difficult decision to move on to a new role outside the company.” But how do you quit when you like your job? I have been invited to apply for a new job that I’m pretty excited about (my closest friend recommended me for a job with her company, and it’s a great fit). Of course, I have studied your interview guide, and I wouldn’t dream of quitting until I have an offer in writing. And I need to give two weeks’ notice.

I plan to talk to my manager directly in a formal meeting. I’ve been with the company for more than 12 years, and she has been very supportive of me. I am one of the senior team members, and she relies on me a lot. The timing is kind of crappy for her — the offer could come right after our biggest annual client event, and my boss has a planned vacation after that that would happen during my notice period.

What do you recommend I say during the meeting? How do I break the news to her? I will offer to help with the transition as much as possible; in fact, I’m already training our newest hire. Should I also mention that I wouldn’t entertain a counter-offer, or is that presumptuous?

Just be straightforward: “This was a hard decision for me, but an amazing role was offered to me, and I accepted it. I’m ready to do whatever I can to help with the transition during the next X weeks.” More here. And don’t mention preemptively that you wouldn’t accept a counteroffer though; that’s premature. If she makes noises in that direction, you can certainly let her know it’s not something you’re open to before she goes through the work of getting one approved, but there’s no need to mention it before that.

Also, remember that there’s never a good time to leave most jobs. The timing always sucks in one way or another. That’s okay; most managers understand that, and they’ll make do.

3. Employer asked me to interview but hasn’t gotten back to me

I sent a cover letter and resume to an employer (a winery) for an assistant manager position on Thursday afternoon. On Friday, the general manager replied, provided me a more detailed job description, and asked if I was available to come interview at the winery on Tuesday or Thursday this week. I thanked him for his quick response and let him know I was available any time Tuesday. Since then, I’ve heard nothing. I followed up Monday afternoon and included the three people he CC’ed with his original email (I didn’t reply-all in my first response) to let them know I was still available this week and still nothing.

From searching your site, I think this is the point where I stop following up. Others have told me it couldn’t hurt to call today if I don’t hear anything by late afternoon (around 4:30 pm). I’m really lost as to what I should do. The quick reply and interview offer, followed by silence, has me completely confused as to how I handle this. I really hate the idea of giving up, because it seems like a great position for where I want to go in my career.

I’d wait until later this week — probably Friday — to follow up, and I’d do it by email for all the usual reasons (less intrusive, etc.). Hiring often takes longer than employers think it will, and we had a holiday at the start of this week. You’ve made your interest clear, and the ball is in his court. One more follow-up would be fine, but doing it now would be too soon — you’ll look pushy. Do it at the end of the week.

4. How should I use this foot in the door?

I’ve been a small business owner for over two years now and it has become a self-sufficent business that only requires a few hours a week of my time. I’m trying to get back into the corporate world and am having trouble.

I am focused on one particular large corporation in my area. I’ve recently started a temporary position at this corporation. It’s great because it’s steady income, everyone is nice, and it’s “a foot in the door.” It looks like the job could turn into a permanent position. The problem is it’s not in my department of interest and it’s not a very challenging job. It’s a step or two down from my previous work experience and where I want to be.

My question is, what do I do with this “foot in the door”? How do I leverage being inside the corporation to get a job in the department and at the pay-grade I want? Also when I apply for jobs at the company is it smart to list this job on my resume or just mention it in a cover letter?

Talk to people at the new company and tell them what you’re interested in. Working there as a temp means that you now have in-person access to people you couldn’t have had access to otherwise — lots of employees of the company, including possibly people involved in hiring for the roles you’re interested in. Talk to them face-to-face, tell them what you want to do, and ask for their advice.

And yes, include this job on your resume. They’ll be interested in knowing you’re at least something of a known quantity to some of their employees.

5. Should I leave my job because of my boss’s favoritism toward others?

I’d really appreciate your thoughts on how to respond to potential favoritism on the part of one’s boss. I don’t believe my manager is treating me unfairly in any explicit way; it’s more the sense that if she favored me, I would be more in the loop on things that relate to my job and would have more opportunities that interest or develop me. My manager puts more value on the business-related opinions of those on her team who are good personal friends (and those are the people she reaches out to for their thoughts). I believe that she will advocate more strongly for those people during promotion discussions as well. We don’t have a bad professional relationship, but I don’t believe we will ever be “friends.”

I’m a good performer. I have a good track record of bringing large and complex projects to successful completion, I think more so than the majority of my peers. Do you think this is a time to start looking for another job? I otherwise enjoy what I’m doing.

If you’ve been there less than two years, I wouldn’t leave so early just because of this. But if you’ve been there longer than two years, I’d weigh how much you feel you’re getting from this job (despite your manager’s problems) versus what you think you’re likely to find by leaving. That’s of course hard to predict; the next boss could be worse, after all, or there could be some greater problem with the next employer. But the idea is to get really clear in your own head on how much this bothers you — and how you weigh it relative to the advantages you see in staying.

6. I can’t start my new job until I move or start driving

Recently I got a job offer, and over the past few weeks I have been screened for my background, drug use, and physical condition. I expect the company to call me back very soon to discuss my starting date. The job is not far from where I am living (30 minutes of driving), but I have neither a car nor a driver license at this point (I’m working on it though and will get my license in a month). Therefore, I would have to move closer to the company in order to work in the short run. I found apartments that allow me to move in after 3 weeks — a month but none allows me to move in right away. I’m afraid the company would ask me to go to work right away, which I wouldn’t be able to. How should I address my problem to them on the phone so that they won’t be turned off?

Well, it’s pretty normal to set your start date at least 2-3 weeks out, so unless you’ve told them that you can start immediately or they’ve said that they’ll need you to, I would assume they’re expecting you to take a few weeks before starting.

It seems silly to move just because you won’t have your license for 1-2 weeks after starting, if the problem will be solved once you do. I’d look into either getting your license sooner or finding alternate transportation for those 1-2 weeks, rather than planning to move for such a short-term problem. (Of course, that assumes you’ll buy a car at that point — but buying a cheap used car is probably cheaper than or at least equal to the cost of a move anyway.)

7. Can my employer fine me for arriving late?

Yesterday, I arrived about ten minutes late to my shift at my serving job (at a non-chain restaurant in a big city), due to some train trouble. Normally this isn’t seen as a big deal by the managers (and I still made it in before the rest of the servers on schedule), but yesterday the owner happened to be there checking in and demanded that I pay him $100 at the end of my shift in retribution. I was shocked, but thought it would blow over and got to work. At the end of the shift, the manager on duty reluctantly tried to collect a bargained down $50 from each of the servers, and everyone but me caved in and paid it. I have only been at this job for two months, but my coworkers tell me that this is not the first time this has happened.

Of course I’m wondering about the legality of what he did (although after reading your blog nothing would surprise me), but also if there is anything I can do if this happens in the future. (Part of me is worried that when I come in for my next shift I might be told to pay up or get out.) I’d sure appreciate any advice!

What the hell? No, employers can’t make deductions from your pay for any reason other than deducting time that you’re weren’t there — i.e., they don’t need to pay you for the 10 minutes you were late, but they can’t make an additional deduction on top of that. The only exception to this is if this was written into your employment agreement; otherwise, it’s retroactively changing the pay rate you and they agreed to, which isn’t allowed.

You might say to your manager, “I understand that you want me to take our arrival times seriously, and I’ll be more vigilant about that. But the law is pretty clear that we can’t fine employees, and I don’t want us to get into trouble over that.”

It’s tiny answer Tuesday — seven short answers to seven short questions. Here we go…

1. The person who I replaced 15 months ago now wants her job back

I applied for an internal lateral move 15 months ago and got the job. The vacancy was there because another worker bid on a higher job and got it. Soon after she started her new job, she asked if we could go back to our old jobs because she hated her new one. I agreed to, just so she wouldn’t be miserable. HR told me not to worry, I didn’t have to go back, and they would get her some help with her new job. Now 15 months later, they tell me she is coming back to her old job, booting me out, and I can’t go back to my old job, I must take the only job currently open, which is not a desirable position.

Shouldn’t there be a time limit on her being able to get her previous position back? Shouldn’t they allow me my old position back if they are so willing to make provisions for her? There is nothing at all in our handbook about job bidding or placement or anything like that, and we are non-union, so I feel very mistreated and have no one to back me up since we don’t have a written policy.

There are three standpoints to look at this from: what’s fair, what’s legal, and what’s good management. It’s clearly not fair — you accepted a position she had vacated, and it’s ridiculous that 15 months later she can reclaim it just because she wants to. It is, however, legal; employers can shuffle employees around any way they want to, fair or not (as long as it’s not based on race, gender, or other protected categories). Whether or not it’s good management isn’t entirely black and white — on the surface it obviously seems like it’s bad management, but if they feel that she’ll do a significantly better job in the role that you have been, and they’re not especially worried about retaining you in the long-term, it’s not as bad of a decision as if they were doing it simply because she asked them to … although even if that’s the case, they should care how it will look to other employees. Because it will look pretty bad to anyone who hears about it.

2. I don’t like my campus career center’s resume recommendations

While my college career center liked my resume, nobody else did. It started with an objective, education, work experience, and other or relevant experience, which the career center suggested. I think that this left the most relevant information, my skills and experience, where it is least likely to be read, and left the irrelevant information, my BA in a subject unrelated to the jobs I’m applying for, where it is most likely to be read. This did not make sense to me. And like I said, nobody outside of the career center was particularly happy with it.

Now I have removed the objective and changed the order of the sections of my resume. The order is: skills, relevant experience, work experience, and education. I think that the new structure shows people what they are looking for, possibly in the order that they’re looking for it, with as little junk as possible getting in the way. What do you think? Should I go back to the earlier structure or make any other changes to it?

Yep, your changes are absolutely right for most fields and what I would have suggested. (The only exception would be where the specifics of your education truly are the most important qualification for recent semi-recent grads), but those fields are very, very few.)

The fact that campus career centers are still telling students to use objectives — let alone telling them to bury their most relevant qualifications beyond less relevant ones — makes me want to spend the next month calling up every career center in the country and screaming at them.

3. Are these scheduling habits rude?

I have begun doing freelance work for someone, which requires occasional in-person meetings. This client is aware I have limited availability due to my full-time job as well as other freelance projects I am involved on. I make an effort to schedule our meetings with enough notice for both parties to plan adequately.

Almost two weeks ago, we set a tentative plan to meet this Saturday (time TBD), agreeing he would follow up closer to the date to confirm. On Thursday, having not heard back, I emailed a polite, informal “just want to see if Saturday still works, and if so what time?” He responded Friday morning saying, “still on tomorrow, details to come.” It is now 4pm on Friday and he hasn’t followed up yet.

I can be accommodating to this client so I’m not going to create an issue where there isn’t one, but my question is whether this is bad form or just par for the course for busy people? I am 4 years out of college, and he is an independent film producer who has been in the industry for some time. Is this just the way people work? Is it fair that in our roles I should be the one who has to be accommodating to his schedule? (I feel like it is, but perhaps I am being a pushover here.) And, to that end, what are the etiquette rules for giving people enough time to prepare for a meeting?

It is indeed bad form, and it’s also the way some people work. You can often head this off, however, by structuring your plans with them differently. For instance, this might have gone differently with this guy if during the original plan-making you’d said, “Let’s plan to confirm details by Thursday” — and then if you hadn’t heard from him by late Thursday, followed up with him, saying, “I may not be accessible tomorrow so hoped to confirm these details now.” In other words, being explicit with them about when you want things solidified by, and then following up to make that happen.

As for whether you should be the one to accommodate his schedule, maybe. It depends on the relative power of your position versus his. Do you need him more than he needs you? If so, yes, be prepared to accommodate — but you can still use the tactics above to make it easier when you do.

4. Is it okay to Google your interviewer?

What is the protocol on googling and doing LinkedIn searches on potential interviewers or organizations? I assume they are doing the same about me. I work in a field (communications, PR, marketing and advocacy) where I am expected to be up on technology and especially with advocacy and politics to have some awareness. Is it ok to admit this and if not, in this day and age why would it be creepy? 

It’s fine to Google your interviewer, and it’s pretty much assumed you’ll do so for the organization itself. It’s only creepy if you mention things to your interviewer that have nothing to do with her job — like the recipes she has on her Pinterest or the award she won in high school.

5. When job applications ask for your Social Security number

On several job applications recently, I’ve been asked for my Social Security number, and I’m not thrilled about having to put it there (two were online, one was a paper application). Is this legal (I’ve heard differing things)? And are there ways that I could go around applying without putting my SSN on there?

It’s legal in most states, although a few prohibit it. It’t ridiculous that they ask for it at this stage though, since they don’t need it until they’re paying you or doing a background check, and most people these days know that it’s not the greatest idea to give it out willy-nilly. If the form requires it and won’t let you proceed without entering something, one option is to put all zeros — which should signal that you’re declining to provide it at this stage.

6. My first paycheck is short

I was hired as a nurse for $30 a hour in writing. When I received my first paycheck, they had paid me $10 an hour short without any communication and shorted me 2 hours. Can they decrease my pay? I have the official letter stating my offer. My co workers are getting $30 and more a hour with less education and experience. What can I do?

What your coworkers are getting isn’t relevant to this; what IS relevant is that you were paid less than your agreed-upon rate and you were shorted two hours. You say that they haven’t communicated with you about it, but have you communicated with them? The first step is to go to them and point out the discrepancy; it may be a simple error that they fix on the spot. If not, you have a wage claim; they’re legally obligated to pay you the agreed-upon rate (and can’t change it retroactively, although they can change it going forward) and to pay you for all hours worked if you’re non-exempt.

7. Negotiating a 4-day-per-week schedule

I am in the process of negotiating a job offer that will require me to move to a relatively nearby city. Unfortunately, this company of a couple hundred people and nearly two dozen locations has a nepotism rule, so my spouse (who also works in my field) will not be able to work with this company. We’re not keen on the idea of contracting from two incomes to one. The job description stated that the job carries office hours of 8-5, but I’m wondering whether it would be appropriate to ask during the negotiations whether working 10 hours\day from Monday-Thursday would be an option so that I could be “back home” with my spouse Friday-Sunday?

You can ask that, but I wouldn’t do it until you have an offer, and I’d be prepared to hear no. Some companies allow flexible schedules like that and some don’t. (Some, for instance, consider it an inconvenience not to have employees around of Fridays for meetings, ad hoc questions, etc.) Also be prepared for the fact that they may be wary of hiring someone who will continue to consider “home” to be in a different location — that’s often interpreted as a risk factor for not staying around long.

It’s mini answer Monday — seven short answers to seven short questions. Here we go…

1. How can I nicely tell an employee that she needs to be at work more, despite family illness?

I have a valued employee who has had two sick parents over the last year. One had cancer and we allowed the employee extensive time off (30 days in 5 months) to attend chemo and be with her mother in her last weeks. She also has a stepparent who has been very sick over the last year. She has started calling in on a regular basis again to attend tests and go to the hospital.

While I understand the need to spend time with family, I also have to run a business. We have 12 paid days off a year and we approve additional unpaid leave on a case-by-case basis. We have always been flexible, but it has never been this extreme. How to I address the fact that she is neglecting her job without being a jerk?

Say something like, “I know you’ve had a tough year, and I understand why you’ve had to miss a lot of work. However, I can’t approve much more unpaid leave for you this year, since we really need you here. I can let you take a few more unpaid days this year if you end up needing them, but we’re not in a position to approve much more than that, since we need your work covered. I know you’re in a tough spot, though. Is there anything else we can do to make this easier on you?” (For instance, if it’s feasible to give her flexible hours — so she can leave early one afternoon but make it up the next day, for instance — that’s something you might be able to offer that won’t impact her total hours worked in a week but might help her juggle this.)

2. Former manager won’t respond to reference checkers

I am struggling to secure a new position, even after sailing through multiple rounds of interviews, because my previous boss refuses to return the phone calls of potential employers. I do not use her as a reference for this reason, but all employers want to speak with her. She was very nasty to me when I told her I was leaving and now seems to be intentionally sabotaging my future employment. What should I do?

You can’t make her return phone calls — and you probably don’t want her to, since she doesn’t sound likely to give you a glowing reference. But you can warn interviewers about the situation — “My last manager took it very hard when I left, and one way that’s manifested is that she doesn’t seem to be returning reference-checkers’ phone calls.” If you happen to have copies of your performance evaluations from that job (and if they’re excellent), you could offer those up to see if that helps.

3. Casually mentioning other interviews to an employer

I’m asking this on behalf of my friend, who asked for advice about something that happened to her. She had a job interview scheduled for Tuesday of next week and one scheduled for Wednesday of the same week. The woman from the Tuesday interview asked her if she could come in on Wednesday at the same time of her other interview, so my friend told her that she had a job interview that day and that she wasn’t available, but that Thursday and Friday were fine for her. The woman hasn’t replied to her for about a day since then. I told her it’s probably because she’s checking her schedule, but now my friend is freaking out and she thinks that because she told her that she had a job interview on Wednesday, the person from the Tuesday interview doesn’t think she’s as serious as she should be about interviewing for her company. Do you think that could be?

Also, her mom suggested that maybe instead of saying that she had an interview, she should have said that she had a family obligation or some other appointment. I said that saying that you had an interview make her look even more “hire worthy.”

Employers expect that you’ll be interviewing with other places; it’s normal. However, it’s true that “I can’t meet then because I have an interview” is a little more information than they need. It’s sort of akin to if you’d been on a couple of dates with someone, asked them out for Saturday, and heard, “I have a date then, but how about Sunday?” Even if you had been assuming you weren’t exclusive, it still sounds a little weird. In both cases, for whatever reason, the convention is to be discreet.

Your friend could have simply said, “I’m not available Wednesday, but I’m free later in the week.” No details about why are necessary.

4. Can I ever live down mistakes I made at work years ago?

I have been at my current job for seven years now. About six years ago, I almost lost my job because I was making too many mistakes. I made them because I was too busy and didn’t have the time to give full effort to my work. Quite frankly, I was overworked. My boss would get furious with me and wouldn’t speak to me for weeks. I think the only reason I did not get fired was because I am such a hard worker. I put out huge amounts of work. Hiring someone and training them was just too daunting an undertaking.

But I feel like this “mistake period” has ruined my reputation because I still work with all those same people and they remember. This past “mistake cloud” still hangs over my head. And now every time I make even the smallest mistake, my past is relived in my boss’s eyes. I also know that my boss tells every new person that comes to work here about my past. I know she shouldn’t do it, but she does.

How should I handle this past period in my career? I want to do something to stop the power it continues to inflict upon me. Should I bring it up and talk about it openly whereby dissipating its power? Or just continue as I have been hoping everyone eventually forgets as I prove myself with my current performance?

It’s time to go somewhere else. You have a reputation here that’s always going to be attached to you in your boss’s eyes. After seven years, it’s reasonable to be moving on anywhere, so go somewhere where you won’t have this albatross around your neck. (And if that alone isn’t enough reason to leave, your terrible boss is a second reason — not speaking to you for weeks and telling people about your mistakes six years ago is ridiculous behavior.) Go somewhere where you won’t be saddled with this.

5. Dinged for not being social enough with upper management

I’ve been working at one of large accounting/consulting firms for a little over a year now and on my recent performance review I was dinged for not being social enough with the upper management team. This was defined as not taking an active role in organizing social events for the department, which I might add are sparsely attended by upper management in the first place. As a result of this, the upper management team feels like they don’t know me and therefore my overall rating should be a level lower than presented. My performance in terms of actual work and relationships with clients was deemed to be of strong quality.

Am I naive to think this type of feedback is silly? All of this seems a bit political. I must also add that those who are organizing these types of events are viewed in better light by management regardless of performance. I know this because some have failed to obtain industry certifications only to have it laughed off while others are questioned as to why they could not make the commitment required to pass.

Yes, it’s silly, but what they’re telling you is that this is part of what’s valued there. And it’s actually true that after a certain point in your career, you do need some visibility with upper management in order to be recognized and get better opportunities; that’s just part of how this stuff works at most places. But it’s not reasonable to tell you that you have to do this by organizing social events; there should be plenty of other ways to achieve it (and I wonder if your boss is just bad at communicating the many other ways to achieve this). In any case, take this as information about what it takes to succeed in your current company, and decide if it’s something you’re interested in pursuing or not.

6. Telling a recruiter I’m more interested in the job I applied for than the second one proposed

I applied on a company’s website for an open position that, as described, is tailor made for my experience and qualifications. Less than 12 hours later, I got a call from one of the company’s recruiters, who wanted to talk to me about an opening. We talked for a bit and it didn’t sound exactly like the job I applied for, but I thought to myself that maybe I’d just missed a few things in the description.

Turns out it’s not the same job I applied for. This job is, to be honest, something I’m not really interested in because it involves field work and more people to people contact than I prefer. Not to mention that I don’t meet some of the requirements in the posting.

The recruiter said she’d send my resume to the hiring manager, who may or may not want to see me. Is there any way I can tell the recruiter that I’m really more interested in the other position?

The other position may not exist. It’s really common for recruiting companies to advertise for positions that aren’t actually available, in order to build a database of candidates. You can certainly tell the recruiter that you’re not really interested in this position and you’d like to be considered for the other, but be prepared to find out that the other one isn’t available.

7. Mentioning a beer brewing hobby on your resume

I’m writing a resume to apply for operations at a nuclear power plant. Obviously a pretty technical position. Would beer brewing be an appropriate hobby to post? I see it as a technical hobby, but I worry because beer can have a negative stereotype.

Sure, I don’t see any harm in that. Sure, you might run into someone who has an issue with beer, but you’re just as likely to run into someone who randomly has an issue with your school or some other element of your resume.