politely avoiding sitting by a loud coworker, colleague asked me to lead a project and then went silent, and more

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Is there a polite way to avoid sitting by a loud coworker?

I’ve recently transferred to a new team at work and so far am really enjoying it. The only real snag is that I have trouble sitting nearby one of my teammates, Chris. To be clear, I really like him as a coworker, I don’t have a bad thing to say about the guy! But he has some minor quirks that, without armchair diagnosing, are what you’d generally expect of someone on the spectrum; he rocks in his chair pretty constantly, talks to himself under his breath and makes little humming noises, and taps or scratches at his desk when he’s not typing. It’s pretty subdued and I’d say nondisruptive, except that I am (also) on the spectrum and his particular stimming habits drive me up the wall, and he keeps sitting right next to me when he comes in. (Not because of me specifically, we just have limited seating and both arrive later than most of our team, so we tend to be taking the last two empty seats in our section.)

I’m not sure if there’s a way to deal with this beyond gritting my teeth and putting in headphones, or if there’s a polite way to switch desks when someone else leaves for the afternoon without it seeming like I’m snubbing the guy. I don’t want it to come across like that, our work habits are just incompatible and I can’t really focus when I’m near him.

Try just naming it matter-of-factly and without judgment! For example: “You tend to talk to yourself while you work and I am weirdly sensitive to sound (or “incredibly easily distracted” or whatever you’re comfortable saying) so I’m going to move to that desk over there. It’s not personal, carry on!”

If you say it warmly — and especially if you make a point of being warm to him in other ways/in other situations — it should be fine!

2. HR said we couldn’t consider candidate’s reluctance to meet our in-office requirement

I have decades of experience in state and local government at a high level and have participated in dozens of recruitment and hiring efforts, but something that happened today has baffled me. I’m serving on a hiring committee for a large national professional association. One step in the process is an interview done by a consultant, who then briefs the search committee.

One candidate told the consultant that they retired after a 20+ year career due to a child’s high level, demanding sports commitments and the desire to participate in those events. They also inquired closely about requirements around in-office work and possible hybrid schedules, even though the job ad clearly stated that in-office work and residence in a particular city was required.

Here’s the part that threw me: the HR staffer organizing the search instructed the committee that we were to disregard this information, and should only consider objective qualifications for the position, and that it is never appropriate to consider any personal information offered by a candidate. I would love your take on this viewpoint, as most of us on the committee were surprised at this statement. When we pushed back, we were told that if outside activities interfere with job performance, it can be dealt with at that point. Sure seems crazy to me to ignore relevant data during the interview process, only to perhaps invite problems down the road!

Yeah, that’s ridiculous, and it’s a particularly classic brand of incompetence that you sometimes see with bad HR people, where they have (correctly) absorbed that there are some bits of personal info that shouldn’t be considered in hiring but then utterly fail to apply any nuance or distinguish between what’s legally allowable to be considered (and is relevant) and what isn’t.

It’s true that you shouldn’t consider irrelevant personal information, like if the candidate mentioned church membership or their love of The X-Files. It is categorically not true that you shouldn’t consider someone heavily implying that they might not want to work the schedule required by the job. It would be far more defensible if the HR person had said, “Let’s not try to guess at what they meant and instead let’s restate the in-office requirements for the job and ask them outright if they can comply with those” … but to say you shouldn’t engage with it at all and just deal with it after they’re hired if it becomes a problem rather than clarifying it earlier? Ludicrous.

3. Senior coworker wanted me to lead a project and then went silent

I recently had a senior llama groomer, Betty, reach out, tell me she’s been very pleased with my work, and ask if I’d like to take swing at leading a small group of junior groomers in an upcoming project. (These are fake job titles for anonymity, obviously.) After some hesitation, and probably being very awkward about the praise (I blame my puritan roots) I said yes! Most of the hesitation was based on the fact that my background is in llama herding, so I wasn’t sure if leading groomers was a great fit. But Betty assured me that it would work out, and that she’d be supporting me through it.

So, we continue along with some preliminary proposal work, and end up getting awarded the full llama grooming contract. At this point, Betty went into radio silence. Eventually I messaged to check in on the status of the project, and she suggested that maybe I could help out with restocking the grooming supply cabinet. No mention of leading anything or contributing substantively. Ever since, I’ve been reading her messages as being pretty short/cold, but I might be projecting.

So what happened?! I figure one of the following: (1) Betty just kind of forgot. (2) Betty realized that a herder just doesn’t have the technical expertise to successfully lead a group of groomers, and felt too awkward to directly address the leadership offer. Or (3) I’ve done something wrong, and now Betty is unhappy with me but won’t address the problem for whatever reason. For what it’s worth, I tend to agree with the thought process in (2).

So what might I have done wrong, and what do I do now? Because of the skills mismatch, I’m relieved to be off the hook with this role. But I’d love to work with Betty again, if a better fit came along. Any scripts I could use to address it? Or should I just pretend it never happened and hope for a future opportunity for collaboration? I feel like it’s this huge elephant in the room, but maybe Betty hasn’t given it another thought!

It’s possible that you did something wrong that I don’t know about — like you messed up a high-stakes project for Betty and so she rethought the initial offer, or who knows what — but assuming nothing like that happened, I suspect you’re right that it’s #2.

You could say this to her: “I know we’d talked a bit about my leading the X work and you ended up going in a different direction for that — which makes a lot of sense to me since my background is in herding. But I’d love to work with you again if something that’s a better fit comes along.”

That way, if she is feeling awkward about it, you’ll be smoothing it over, and either way you’re being gracious and reiterating your interest in future projects.

4. Do I have to say where I’m going when I quit?

I just got a new job and gave my two weeks. It’s the first time in my career where I’ve found a job while having a job. Our HR person shared with the whole staff what my last day is (that’s typical). When I told my manager, she was super happy for me and then asked where I was headed. I told her I wasn’t currently sharing the place but shared how it’s vaguely related to current work. I have other coworkers who I’m closer with who are also asking me.

I’m feeling uncomfortable sharing with people because I didn’t have a good experience with my current manager. There was a lack of trust and I didn’t think she truly had my best interests in mind. For that reason it’s hard to trust that any of my coworkers wouldn’t end up sharing and then it would get back to her somehow. I’m feeling protective of this new job, especially because I didn’t feel supported or fully valued at this current job. Any advice? I want to share with closest colleagues but also don’t want everyone to know right away and I worry about the word getting around.

You don’t need to share where you’re going if you don’t want to. It’s definitely more common than not for people to share it — so it’s not odd or intrusive that people are asking — but it’s perfectly fine to say, “I’m not announcing it publicly yet, but I’ll let you know when I do.” Just don’t be awkwardly coy about it, which will seem strange and raise additional questions in people’s minds; it’s better to just come out and say you’re not ready to share yet.

5. I never heard from the hiring manager after I withdrew from the interview process

I am relatively new to the corporate world. I recently interviewed for a job at a Fortune 50. The job posting was a little vague on some details of the position, but it was worth a shot, so I tossed in a resume and forgot about it.

I was surprised that the first response I had from the company was an invitation to four hours of interviews with the hiring manager and others I’d be working with. I immediately started more research on the position. I discovered the hiring manager had attended my same school, and we had many mutual acquaintances. I asked around about the manager’s reputation. People had uniformly positive feedback. I didn’t ask anyone to recommend or introduce me to the hiring manager as I had already been invited to interview.

I had a pleasant experience interviewing and felt I came across all right. However, I also learned the job was not what I had thought it was. I was overqualified on paper but would be in a position of needing to learn a lot in the job, which sounded politically painful, and I wasn’t interested in trying to move into that area of expertise.

I sent a thank-you note to each interviewee immediately after the interview. Then, a few days later, I sent a note to the HR contact thanking them for a pleasant interview experience and the opportunity to be considered, but saying that new opportunities in my current role had come up that were a better fit for my skills. The HR person responded with a polite note.

I never heard anything back from the hiring manager and feel somehow nervous about that, given how warm he was in the time we spoke. I had emailed HR to withdraw, not him, because as elaborate as the interview was, we had only ever spoken for 30 minutes in our lives, and it was still technically the first interview. I guess I expected a short reply to my thank-you note or a LinkedIn message along the lines of, “I heard you withdrew, sorry it didn’t work out, but nice to meet you!” But maybe he had expected the same from me.

All in all, I felt a bit love-bombed by the whole process and was confused on whether this was the first or the last interview. Did I make a faux pas by not reaching out to the hiring manager instead of or in addition to HR?

Nope, everyone here behaved appropriately! You thanked people after the interview, then let an appropriate person know you were withdrawing. It would have been appropriate to email either HR or the hiring manager; you chose HR, and they responded. That’s the end of it! It’s not surprising that the hiring manager didn’t contact you personally after you withdrew. It wouldn’t have been odd if he had sent you a short note, but it’s not odd that he didn’t. The loop had already been closed, and he likely was busy with other things.

I think you’re feeling strange about it because it felt like the two of you connected when you met, and there hasn’t been any acknowledgement between the two of you that you then dropped out. But this happens all the time, and there doesn’t need to be an additional message between you. However, it would also be fine to email him directly if you want to! You could say you enjoyed talking with him, decided to withdraw because of X, and hope your paths might cross again in the future. But it’s not in his court to make that happen; if you want to do it, you should initiate it from your side!

employee runs to work and drips water and mud everywhere when he arrives

A reader writes:

One of our staff, Leonard, runs to work. Given our local climate, this often results in him arriving damp and/or cold, which has caused issues:

• Our offices/meeting rooms have glass walls, so he uses the shared washroom to change on arrival – tromping through in muddy shoes or bare feet, washing his pants in the sink, and dripping water down the hall. On one occasion he dropped soggy underpants beside a female coworker. He immediately apologized and has shown no other signs of being creepy, but she was Not Pleased.

• He runs a space heater constantly. He’s not the only one, but he’s the most blatant, to the point that our workplace occupational safety committee has threatened to do a formal inspection of our offices (which they’ve traditionally looked the other way on). If they did, that would result in confiscation of not only the space heater but other not-exactly-approved appliances like personal tea kettles. Alison, there would be riots.

• When we have morning in-person meetings, he’s visibly shivering within a few minutes of starting. He never complains or tries to get out of meetings, but he looks so uncomfortable that others have (privately) requested meeting online or later instead.

The thing is, we have an on-site gym, with lockers, showers, even a sauna. However, it is not free – and not cheap! – for staff, so most (including Leonard) have not purchased memberships. I feel like all of these issues would be solved if he just bought one, but I also don’t think any of these issues are severe enough that we can compel him to spend his own money on gym access (and unfortunately the cost is unlikely to change anytime soon). Your thoughts?

Yeah, you shouldn’t push him to buy a gym membership, but you should lay out clearer expectations about what he can and can’t do in the office.

It’s reasonable to say that he can’t leave a mess of mud or water in the bathroom or the halls, and you can flag for him that people have privately asked to reschedule meetings because his visible shivering makes them feel like they’re imposing on him.

The space heater is a little different. If other people also run space heaters in violation of the office rules, you can’t really tell him that he can’t. But you could come up with specific modifications he needs to make — like if other people are only getting away with it because they’re using them rarely whereas he’s running his full-blast all day, you can tell him he needs to pull his usage back. In fact, since he’s presumably running it because he’s cold, you could fold that in the conversation about shivering.

Here’s framing that would cover it all: “I need you to figure out a better solutions for mornings when you arrive wet or cold from running to work. Fairly often you’ve come in with muddy shoes or bare feet and washed off in the bathroom sink, which leads to mud and/or water on the floors in the bathroom and the hallways. Can you find a solution that doesn’t leave that sort of mess for others? … I also want to figure out what we can do about your temperature when you arrive very cold since a few people have privately asked me to reschedule morning meetings because they feel awful that you’re shivering. Unfortunately, running a space heater all day isn’t a solution — we’re not supposed to have them at all, and while the facilities team has been looking the other way, they will eventually remove them for everyone if they realize you’re running one so frequently.” (Writing this out makes me realize I might actually leave the shivering out of it — both because people are allowed to be visibly cold and because it’s likely to be solved by addressing the other issues anyway.)

If he seems stumped about what to do, you could mention that the on-site gym could be a solution — but at the same time, be aware that it might not be realistic financially and/or he may not want a gym membership, which is a whole different thing than running outside and also doesn’t solve his commute. But ultimately your job isn’t to solve this for him; you just need to lay out the pieces that need to change (mostly, no mess in the bathroom and halls) and let him decide how he’ll do that.

junior employee sends rude emails

A reader writes:

A junior employee I manage writes rude emails. He will send three emails in 15 minutes, and then respond rudely when I answer the first one, as I haven’t gotten around to the other two or hadn’t seen them in my inbox yet. He’ll respond quoting his previous emails I haven’t had time to look at yet. Or if I respond, he will ignore the answer and resend it, again quoting himself. Every email is condescending and liable to ramble.

I asked another person to look at our email conversations, and they agreed that they’re rude. I also was warned before I started that he was a difficult person to work with.

Should I talk to him about this? If so what’s the best way to explain that some of his email habits could be considered rude? (If they even are. Maybe I’m too picky?)

I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  •  My boss is mentoring my employee
  • How do I express concern without prying?

my new boss told me not to take all my PTO each year

A reader writes:

I recently landed a job offer at a large global company after taking a year off. The job search was a tough one, but after some bumps in the road I was pretty excited about this company and accepted their offer. I ended up negotiating for additional vacation time (four weeks) to match my last role, which they granted.

I really liked the people and company culture throughout the interview process. The only minor critique would be that the process took much longer than expected on their side (an additional two months) due to vacations and holidays. I took it to be a good sign that their employees actually disconnected while out. I have a big family vacation that I’ve had planned for about a year coming up a few months after I start, and I notified them of this when I accepted the offer.

I start in about two weeks, and my future boss called me for what I thought would be a “welcome to the team” call. While she was pleasant and welcoming, she spent the majority of the call expressing surprise over this time-off notification from me, and told me that while my vacation was approved, I “shouldn’t expect to use all of my vacation time” each year. She shared her own story how she lost allotted days this past year, and since they don’t roll over or pay them out, she called it “giving them back to the company.”

I am pretty deflated, and my excitement has been dampened. I absolutely planned to take all of my vacation, as I negotiated for this in lieu of negotiating salary. I completely understand not taking PTO at crunch times, but as she explained it the area is understaffed and it’s always very fast-paced and busy.

This is my first job after a very toxic workplace and while I’ve worked hard on healing, I’m terrified to walk into another. How big of a red flag is this and is there any recourse I can take to ensure I’m able to take my negotiated PTO?

It’s a big red flag.

She’s openly telling you that they don’t plan to give you the thing they promised you they would give you — the thing you negotiated instead of additional salary, and part of the reason you accepted the job.

And the idea that you shouldn’t use all your vacation time each year — leave that’s part of your compensation and doesn’t roll over to the next year — because you should instead “give back to the company” is offensive and ridiculous. It’s not that different than saying you’re expected to donate some of your salary back to the company, or to go without pricey medications so the company’s health insurance costs don’t go up.

Your vacation leave is part of your compensation. You negotiated that compensation, and they agreed to it.

I’m curious whether you negotiated that increase with the manager herself or with someone else, like HR. Either way, it might make sense to go back to HR now and say you’re receiving mixed signals about the compensation you thought had been agreed on, explain what the manager said, and ask them to clarify.

Alternately, you could go back to the manager and say something similar. For example: “I was concerned when we last spoke that you said you didn’t expect me to use the full amount of vacation leave the company agreed to when I accepted the job. I specifically negotiated additional leave in lieu of negotiating salary and took the company at its word when it agreed to X weeks, so I hoped we could clear that up and get on the same page before I start.”

Probably the best option of them all: say it to both HR and the manager in an email to both, so that she’s not going around them with her own, unsanctioned messaging.

Even after this, it’s possible that you could start this job and everything will be fine — that you can be assertive about taking the time you negotiated and that it won’t sour your relationship with your new manager in a significant way. Some red flags spell certain or near-certain doom, but I don’t think this one is as clear-cut if you’re assertive about what you negotiated.

But it’s also possible that she will hold it against you and/or will pressure you about vacation time in ways that significantly alter the conditions you thought you were accepting when you took the job. You won’t know until you start, and maybe not until after a few months go by.

But follow up on that conversation now and make it clear that you took the company at its word and need them to adhere to it. That gives you the best chance of holding on to what they agreed to.

mysterious visitor won’t leave our cafe, correcting coworker’s Spanish mistake, and more

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Unauthorized visitor won’t leave our cafe

I work for a university research department, and we have run into an issue with a stranger repeatedly remaining in our office cafe/kitchen space, and it is proving surprisingly difficult to resolve.

The building we are in houses many departments that don’t work with undergrads, but do work with graduate students, faculty, and other affiliates and guests. The building is not owned by the university, and building management is across the street in a different building. The building is unlocked 8-5 Monday-Friday but requires fob access at all other times. All of the office suites require fobs to get in, but the cafe and bathrooms are outside of locked areas, and the cafe is an open area without a door, so there’s no way to prevent people from entering that space once in the building.

Since early November, we’ve had an issue with a youngish man appearing in the cafe some days. He has a computer and will get lunch and return, so initially we assumed he was a grad student. When he ignored requests to stop watching videos out loud in the space (he would stop for a minute or so, then go back to his prior behavior), we started to get suspicious. I tried to politely ask who he worked with here or what other building department he works for, or even just his name, and he evaded the questions, by speaking quietly, repeatedly claiming he’d already told me, and mumbling the requested information in sentences that were otherwise clear and understandable. As a guy under five feet tall, intimidating authority is just about the last thing I’ll ever be described as, so I quickly hit a wall.

My supervisor and several other staff members at various times also asked him for information and to be respectful of the space and or to leave, but no one got any further, though it never escalated in a hostile or loud way either. We reached out to building management and they said they’d send security, but that never happened.

We’ve continued to spot him sporadically and heard reports from other groups of him pulling similar behavior, and always naming a department not on that floor as the one he worked for. Building management did speak to him at one point, and he claimed to work for us. Building management is nice but often slow to respond to messages, so we cannot easily summon them every time we see him.

Grad students have also reported seeing him around over the weekend sometimes, when they’ve been in to work on things. This past weekend, my supervisor, otherwise on parental leave, stopped by to get something and spotted him but chose not to engage since she had her kids with her.

We are a bunch of social scientists and well aware of not wanting to come off as profiling a Black man for being in a space, but at this point it is an issue. Practically, the biggest problem is that in the time it takes to go get management or someone else for help, he’s able to slip away or leave until the next time we spot him, and engaging with him is just going in circles, never getting enough information to get further, or to even verify if he belong in the building. It’s not clear if he’s even disruptive in a way that would justify calling the police. What should we do?

Do you have to do anything? It doesn’t sound like he’s causing problems, other than sitting in a cafe. I’m not suggesting you should completely ignore your security rules, which presumably exist for a reason, but you’ve tried to address it and gotten nowhere, and it doesn’t sound like you’re in a position where you absolutely must take additional action. Is it an option to just let your building management know the whole history — including the fact that at least once he lied about who he works for, as well as that he’s been there on weekends when the building was locked — and then leave it in their court to decide what to do?

If he’s being disruptive or refusing direct requests (like to stop playing videos out loud), you can call campus security, but otherwise this seems like an issue for the building management rather than any of you. If you feel they’re not handling it with an appropriate level of urgency, the next step is to be clearer with them about exactly why it needs more urgency; right now they’re probably proceeding as if it’s a minor issue because it’s not clear that it requires more than that.

2. Should I have corrected my coworker’s very funny Spanish mistake?

I have an extremely low-stakes but very funny question for you. My team consists of five monolingual English speakers, though a couple of us know some words or phrases in other languages, including myself and my coworker, “Mary.”

Mary likes to throw around the few Spanish phrases she knows for flavor, and usually uses them correctly, but today she goofed quite badly. In Spanish, “happy new year” translates to “feliz año nuevo” (note the tilde over the “n”). Mary, however, wished another coworker “feliz ano nuevo” (no tilde) in our team’s group chat. This translates to “happy new anus.”

I said nothing. I laughed myself to tears in my home office, but I didn’t correct Mary. I figured everyone would know what she meant, and correcting her would be unduly embarrassing. Was that the right thing to do? Is there a way to bring something like that up without embarrassing someone?

Do you have a warm relationship with Mary? Is she someone with a sense of humor who can laugh at herself? If so, I can think of no greater gift than letting her know she wished your coworker a happy new anus, and I don’t think you need to tiptoe around it at all.

If Mary is not someone who can laugh at herself … well, in that case I might have even more desire to tell her what she said, but from an office politics perspective it may be wiser to just leave it alone.

3. My coworkers won’t stop singing

This is probably not a problem that can really be solved, but it’s driving me insane and maybe you have some insight I’m not thinking of.

I have two coworkers who wander in and out of my work area frequently throughout the day who are constantly singing. Both actual song lyrics, and wordless opera-style harmonising. I would find it annoying even if they were good singers, but I’m sorry to say that they’re not, which makes it even worse.

They drive me absolutely bonkers because I can’t stand noise while I’m trying to work. Because of where my desk is located, I can’t use headphones (I sit at the front desk despite receptionist duties not being part of my job description, which is a whole other letter).

Neither of them is the type of person I feel I could earnestly ask to stop. Asking them would almost certainly result in them a) arguing with me and/or b) singing even louder at me. Plus, I don’t want to be seen as the office grinch. Is there anything at all that I can do about this?

Someone singing in the hallways while other people were trying to focus was one of the earliest things I had to address as a new manager! It remains fascinating to me that some people don’t realize that’s not okay to do in an area where other people are trying to concentrate on work.

In a normal situation you could simply say, “Hey, it’s hard to focus when you’re singing in this space! Sorry to ask, but could you not sing when you’re walking through here?” But since you think these coworkers would argue with you about it (WTF?) or just sing more loudly (also WTF?), your only other option is explain to a manager that it’s disrupting your work and ask them to intervene. Most managers are likely to ask if you’ve tried speaking to the coworkers yourself first, so you should preemptively explain why you think doing that will escalate things. (And for what it’s worth, any manager should be pretty alarmed to hear that one of their employees would fight someone over a request like this, but the fact that this dynamic exists in your workplace in the first place makes me wonder if that will actually be the case or not.)

Related:
my employee is a terrible singer

4. Best way to phrase an unusual dietary requirement

I have recently been diagnosed with a medical condition that requires me to avoid fatty foods. As in, my body has issues digesting these foods, so I should not eat them. At home, it’s not really an inconvenience — while the diagnosis is new, I have had these issues since birth, so I have always avoided certain foods such as cream, mayo, etc. as I knew they made me sick. However, it is a much bigger problem when eating out and at work events as I am not sure how to communicate my dietary needs. (I find even dishes that would be completely fine if I cooked them at home with minimal olive oil are often made with a lot of butter or other fat in commercial settings.)

In the past, I just tried to make do, but now that I have a diagnosis, I would like to be able to ask for food that meets my medical needs like anyone else and not be sick after work dinners. I have tried just asking for “low-fat” but as a petite woman, it has led to some inappropriate comments suggesting I “should not be trying to lose weight” or even that I have an eating disorder! What wording would you recommend? Am I better off giving a list of specific ingredients (“no mayo, cream, butter, or full-fat dairy” which are the main culprits in my experience)? Or just get the vegan option, which allows me to avoid most of these, even if it’s likely to miss instances where, say, the cook just uses a lot of oil? Is there a better way to phrase it?

Give the list of specific ingredients, since not only is “low-fat” leading to some weird misunderstandings, but you also risk people defining “low-fat” differently than you do. It’s safer to simply say, “I have a medical condition that means I can’t digest mayo, cream, butter, or full-fat dairy.”

5. Applying to follow an ex-manager to her new company

I’ve had a fantastic work relationship with my now-ex supervisor (let’s call her Xena) who recently left for a higher-ranking (but not senior leadership) job at another organization in the same field. Xena gave me a hint about an opening in her new department, a position where I’d be reporting to her again — which I’d like very much.

Do you have any advice about deploying a recommendation from a colleague who’s brand-new at the organization I’d be applying to? If I’m asked why I want to apply for the job, would it be a bad move to mention wanting to work with Xena as one of my leading motivations? How much weight is the organization likely to give to her recommendation in the first-round sorting of applications?

Her recommendation is likely to carry a great deal of weight as the hiring manager. But don’t frame wanting to work for her again as one of your leading motivations. Mention it, yes, but you don’t want to sound like it’s the primary driver of your interest — since if they see that, they’re likely to immediately start worrying about what will happen if Xena leaves later this year. Focus on other reasons the job appeals to you, and keep the mention of Xena as more of an aside.

weekend open thread – January 11-12, 2025

This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand.

Here are the rules for the weekend posts.

Book recommendation of the week: Long Bright River, by Liz Moore. It’s SO GOOD! It’s the story of two sisters, close as children but estranged as adults. When one becomes a police officer while the other struggles with addiction. When the younger sister goes missing, the other tries to find her. I thought this would be a gritty police procedural, which isn’t normally my thing, but it’s a beautifully layered literary exploration of family bonds and addiction that will get you right in the gut. The best book I’ve read in months. (Amazon, Bookshop)

* I earn a commission if you use those links.

open thread – January 10, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

how can I convince a new job to let me work from home, staff gets ready to leave before the end of their shift, and more

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. How can I advocate to work from home in an interview when it seems against company culture?

I have been a full-time remote employee since late 2017. This organization has always been fully remote and I have thrived in this environment. I do good work and feel close to my colleagues, whom I see in person once or twice a year. I do not feel I am missing out by being in an office nor do I feel my job would be better done in an office environment. Probably important to note is that my organization is a consultancy, working with clients across the U.S.

For reasons that have nothing to do with the work set-up, it’s time for me to move on from this role. A former colleague has offered me a position that would be very similar to my current role, except I’d be doing it in-house rather than for external clients. Salary is market-low and healthcare premiums are extremely expensive, but the work seems interesting. More than anything, I’m ready for a change from my current situation, so would be willing to give it a shot.

During my first conversation with my former colleague, who would be my boss, she reiterated that the role would be completely remote, but it’d be ideal if I could travel to the office for a few days once a month. The office is located 2.5 hours from my home, which is not ideal but fine.

Since that conversation, however, I’m getting the vibe that it might not be as remote-friendly as my former boss presented, and I am worried about getting into a situation where I may be forced into coming into the office regularly or losing my job. Glassdoor is riddled with reviews about how no one is allowed to work from home and how the CEO is vocally against it. Then, I received an email from my would-be-boss asking if I would consider moving to the area where the job is in exchange for $5,000 in moving expenses. (And no, I would absolutely not move to this area, especially for the salary offered.)

I am confident this will come up in my interview with the CEO, which is this Friday. What aspects of WFH productivity should I come prepared to defend? And how can I assess for red flags that might indicate a WFH bait-and-switch? My husband is a stay-at-home-dad with much less marketable skills than me, and being let go from a job would be financially devastating to my family. We already live paycheck to paycheck, so if I take this role, I need to make it work.

You’re not going to be able to change the CEO’s mind on remote work. The Glassdoor reviews make it clear people who work there have already tried; as an outside candidate, you’re not going to succeed where they failed.

More importantly, you should not take this job. Or at least you shouldn’t take it without a very direct conversation with the hiring manager about what you read on Glassdoor. Unless she says, “Oh, that was the previous CEO; the new one is much more WFH-friendly and the culture has totally changed,” this is a recipe for bad things.

Even if you get the remote work agreement in writing, they can decide to change it at any time, and you can end up subject to a lot of pressure to move … or not included in projects, info distribution, and collaboration that you would need to do well in the job … or may simply end up getting told they’ve decided it’s not feasible to have someone remote after all. If you were comfortable with that risk, it would be one thing — but you’re describing it as financially devastating. This isn’t even a job you’re all that excited about! Throw in the low salary and high health insurance premiums, and it’s not a job that fits your needs.

2. I accidentally left the pumping room a mess

I am so embarrassed right now. I want to hide under my desk.

I have been pumping in an unused breakroom/ storage room in our office. Cases of water bottles are piled so high that the space can’t be used for much, but there is a table and chair and enough space for my needs. There is no lock, but I have put up a sign and have had no issues thus far.

Monday, our afternoon meeting ran long (it is an at-work phone meeting, so I was pumping during it in the room). I had to rush out the office to get my daughter at daycare. Tuesday, I unexpectedly had to stay at home with my older daughter. I had the thought, “I should get my pump.” However, I would have had to make my six-year-old walk with me the few blocks from/to the parking garage in the freezing weather and then climb six floors to my parking space in the garage (the elevator is broken). So I just let it go.

Today the office manager let me know that my boss saw a mess in the pumping room and got very upset. There was dried milk on the table and pumping equipment out. I am sure it looked awful, and I am so humiliated. Yep — I left my pump, a boob flange, and my bag out on the table with the door open.

Of course I will not do this again, but should I tell my boss it was an anomalous occurrence? I don’t know how I will ever look at him again. He is older generation and so far I thought I was doing a good job of being discreet about having to pump at work. I am 100% sure he was grossed out. I don’t want to debate on whether or not he should have been grossed out. It was messy and had bodily fluids (can I crawl in a hole forever?) and things that go on my boobs on the table. Help!

You didn’t pee all over the storage room. You left a medical device there. It was an accident, one that won’t happen again. You don’t need to be this mortified!

I don’t think you need to address it with your boss unless it’s going to drive you mad if you don’t. But if you really want to, you can shoot him an email (to avoid the awkwardness that it sounds like you’d both feel if you talked face-to-face) and say, “Apologies for leaving the break room a mess — I had to leave unexpectedly, but it was an oversight and I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again.” That’s really it! Unless your boss is truly out there, he’s not likely to spend a long time stewing over this.

3. Staff gets ready to leave before the end of their shift

Am I wrong to be annoyed that my staff — who cover the front desk — have a tendency to go to the staff room and gather their things up 10-20 minutes before their shift ends?

We see our last client at 5 pm, but the working hours are 8:15 am to 5:15 pm (with an hour for lunch), in case a client is a few late or someone on their way out needs something, and to just wrap up and close their computers down and whatnot. I feel it isn’t the best presentation for the front to be “pretty much closed” at 5 pm when there’s still a client to get settled.

This expectation has been communicated and has been reiterated. If I ask why they’ve gone to get their things before 5:15, the answer is, “It’s not like I’m leaving yet, I’m just getting ready.” The last time I told them that I did not want them to get their things before clients are finished, having their things on the desk looks like the client is not welcome or is intruding, they just stuck it on the floor.

I don’t feel like it is an unreasonable expectation that my staff doesn’t look like they are running out the door when the last client comes in. But am I being overly critical? Does it matter as much as I feel it does? And if I’m right, what do I need to say to change this behavior?

It’s reasonable to want the last client of the day to feel welcomed and not as if they’re intruding on people who are trying to leave. I don’t know if your staff gathering up their things early is making people feel unwelcome, but if you think it is, you should indeed explain that and tell people not to do it.

I’m curious how firm and direct you’ve been about the expectation: have you been crystal clear (as in “I need you to wait until 5:15 to gather your things”) and they’re flagrantly ignoring that and doing it anyway? If so, you need to get firmer when you see it happening: “We’ve talked about this. I do not want you gathering your things before 5:15 because of the impression it gives clients. If you have a reason to do it earlier, let’s discuss that now so we can hash it out and both be on the same page, but otherwise I need you to follow this job requirement.” But, alternatively, is it possible you haven’t been that clear? If you’ve used softer language (like “I’d prefer you not pack up until the end of the day”), the next step is to be firmer and clearer (“you need to wait until 5:15 to gather your things”).

It’s also possible there’s some complicating factor here like they only have three minutes to catch a bus when their shift ends and if they miss it they’re stuck waiting an hour for the next one … in which case you could explore other solutions, like whether there’s a more discreet place they can store their stuff so it’s not right in clients’ faces. (In fact, you might do that anyway, but that would be particular impetus.)

4. Handling persistent pushy requests from a professor when I’ve already said no

I’m seeking advice on an ongoing issue with a retired elderly professor emeritus. I am an adult learner in a graduate program.

The professor regularly attends our peer teaching session and uses these sessions to advance his own work, including pressuring students to help write chapters for his self published books. He also has sent me numerous emails insisting that I participate as an author in his projects and sign release forms for teaching materials that I created for other purposes for him to use for his own projects. Despite my polite but firm refusals, his requests persist both via email and in person. Although he often says he “respects my decision,” the constant follow-up and pressure to get involved continue.

I’ve discussed this issue with colleagues and other professors, and some have advised me to simply stop responding to his emails, as he sends long, stream-of-consciousness messages filled with various demands, random thoughts, and requests. Fortunately the emails to me have mostly stopped for the time being. It seems that most people have just stopped replying to him altogether.

I am juggling multiple other commitments and have no desire to be involved in his projects, so I’m leaning toward not responding to his emails anymore if he does this again in future. However, I’m unsure if this is the best approach, as I don’t want to escalate the situation or create any further tension. Should I continue to engage politely but firmly, or would it be better to stop responding entirely?

Stop responding. You’ve told him no multiple times and the answer hasn’t changed. And since other people have stopped replying to him, if he has an issue with that he’ll need to take issue with the whole group, not just you, which gives you some degree of cover if that happens.

If he ever asks you in person why you haven’t been answering, you can say, “Oh, I’m sorry if I missed something — I’d already answered you about X and Y and didn’t see an additional question in there.”

Also, is anyone willing to tell him to knock it off, like another professor? Is it something you and other students can raise on course evaluations? It’s obnoxious behavior, made worse by the power dynamics in play.

how to ask “did you get my gift?” without sounding like you’re fishing for a thank-you

A reader writes:

I have an extremely low-stakes question: Is there a way to say “did you receive my gift?” that doesn’t come off as aggressively asking to be thanked but instead expresses what I really want to know, which is, “FedEx/etc said it was delivered but was it really? Or do I need to investigate?”

My workplace has a very flexible work-from-home policy so I don’t necessarily see the small team I manage in person on a predictable schedule. This was complicated this year by me catching a cold and working from home the whole last week before our two-week winter break.

I sent the same type of gift I send every year (normally very enthusiastically received). I got emails from the vendor that they were delivered, and only one person texted to say she received it. I waited two days and then sent texts to the three others to be sure the gifts arrived. Everyone responded that they had and “thank you” and “sorry, I was waiting to thank you in person (which would have been in over two weeks at that point). Then I felt like I’d been pushy. I honestly just wanted to know if I needed to investigate an issue!

This has happened in my personal life as well. Right now it has been over a year since attending my friend’s wedding and I haven’t received a thank-you note for the gift I sent. I’m wondering he thinks I’m cheap or unmannered and just opted out of gifting. I don’t want to ask because several years ago I did ask a friend about a gift more than a year after his wedding and I received a hastily written thank-you note the next week. I don’t need thanks! I just need to know you got it!

I was able to solve this with my bother re: gifts for my niblings easily enough; I said that it was important to me to get a “hey, got the package” text, even if it’s not important to him to send one. But I can’t say that to my team members or when it’s a one-off gift. Am I the only one who worries about this and I just need to tamp down my anxiety? Start gifting in person?

You are not the only one who worries about this, and you are right that it’s hard to navigate without coming across as if you’re fishing for a thank-you.

The easiest way to avoid it is indeed to give the gift in person, but that’s not always possible or practical.

The next easiest approach is to send a note close to the time you expect the gift to arrive, saying something like, “I sent you something small in the mail — it should arrive this week.” That way, they’ll know to let you know if nothing arrives. If you want, you can even add, “I’m always nervous about the mail at this time of year so please let me know if it doesn’t arrive.” But after that, you don’t need to follow up; you’ve alerted them that it’s coming, and so the part you’re worried about is taken care of.

Of course, it’s still possible that they might not alert you if the gift doesn’t arrive — because they’re forgetful or they feel awkward about telling you they didn’t receive anything — but you’ll have taken reasonable steps and don’t really need to cover every possible base. The exception would be if the gift is something so valuable that it warrants additional follow-up — but I’m guessing you’re not sending team members diamond jewelry or anything like that.

Alternately, it’s not that big of a deal if you want to just say, “Hey, did you get the package I sent you?” But since you’re looking for alternatives, these are some.

update: my new boss treats me like his assistant … which isn’t what I was hired for

Remember the letter-writer whose new boss treated her like his assistant … which isn’t what she was hired for? Here’s the update.

I did follow your advice and speak with HR. They listened to my concerns and to their credit they launched an “investigation.” I know that at some point they found my claims credible and spoke to my boss, “Kevin,” because he did come back to me and say that going forward he would handle his own expense report submissions and wanted me to take on more substantive projects. However, this was short lived. Once he felt the attention of HR removed, he immediately returned to his old tactics of treating me like an admin, refusing to give me substantive projects and resorting to expense submissions, calendar management, and other similar tasks.

I once again attempted to speak with HR after he went back to his old ways but they were far less helpful this time and just said that I need to work on communicating with my boss. We then had mid-year performance reviews and while I received exceedingly positive reviews from my peers and stakeholders, Kevin gave me a negative rating. His negative feedback was regarding his complaints about my expense submissions not being timely and my securing restaurant reservations not booked far enough in advance. (I wish I was kidding). I was warned by my predecessor Melissa that he had done this to her before and she had to show HR that she was indeed a high performer and was qualified for the high rating. I did the same and was able to speak to my abilities and performance.

Kevin then attempted to put me on a “Performance Improvement Plan” but HR told him he could not do so since I was meeting expectations and my reviews were very positive. He then attempted to skirt this by putting me on an “informal coaching plan,” resulting in him scheduling meetings three times a week to provide “feedback” on where he thought I could improve. The feedback was largely centered on expense submissions, booking travel, and reserving conference rooms. One of his complaints or “feedback” to me was that I booked conference rooms for meetings that he had trouble finding. I pointed out that the floor of our building has multiple maps that show where each conference room is located. He said he didn’t have time to consult a map and my doing so resulted in him being late to meetings. Trust me, this was not why he was late.

I should also add, if it’s not already clear, Kevin has a widely known terrible reputation at the company. His team has by far the largest turnover compared to any of his peers and within the past year prior to me 50% of his team have left with many more planning to leave soon. In his mid-year reviews and in team and company surveys, this has been expressed by multiple team members, but management seems unwilling or unable to address this situation.

This process ultimately proved unbearable so I made the decision to leave. I know it’s for the best and am grateful to not have to deal with Kevin anymore. I did complete my exit survey and exit interview and, while I’m not confident my feedback will be taken seriously, I did state that whoever they hire to replace me should have an administrative assistant background. I’ve learned that in my absence he spoke to his boss’s chief of staff with a request for her to submit his expenses on his behalf and assist with administrative requests. It’s to be determined on how that’s worked out for him.