my coworker is pushing me to hire her daughter

by Alison Green on May 9, 2023

A reader writes:

I am hiring for an entry-level position. The daughter of our front desk manager applied for the position. Her resume was great, but her cover letter had two words misspelled, including in the company name. The position requires proofreading and careful data entry. I emailed her to let her know that she had great potential, but was not right for this position.

Her mom just emailed me: “Would it be possible to reconsider her for an interview? I think that if you are willing to give her an interview, she will be a good candidate. I know if you ask other staff, they would say the same thing. [Other staff member] actually forwarded the job announcement and [another staff member] came over to suggest I let my daughter know about the job. I hope that you will give her another chance.”

I had many applications for this position and I really cannot interview an applicant who I know I will not hire. I also want to try to maintain a cordial relationship with the front desk and all these other staff members who apparently love her daughter.

I answer this question — and three others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • My employee gives me constant unnecessary status updates
  • How can I get feedback on my management from an employee before I leave?
  • How should I follow up on an introduction?
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my coworker talks non-stop and we can’t take it anymore

by Alison Green on May 9, 2023

A reader writes:

We have a coworker (we’ll call her Serena) who does. Not. Shut. Up. I don’t want to be rude, but there’s really no other way to put it. I’ll explain.

She has information, a story, or life experience for EVERYTHING. We haven’t discussed nuclear fission yet, but I’m certain Serena would have done it. Every conversation within earshot, she butts into. She offers advice at every turn, often unsought, and physically can’t stop interjecting something into every conversation. It doesn’t help her voice is loud and carries throughout the entire building.

She also comes across as a know-it-all and tries to explain some of our jobs to us, though she’s new to our industry and each of us are experts in our various fields with years of experience.

It’s exhausting.

Serena’s coworkers (I’m a different department) have brought it up to their manager who says, “I expect people to manage their issues between themselves.” He works off-site so is not subjected to it. For clarity, he didn’t hire her, a previous manager did. The grandboss was also informed, and has done nothing. He “knows it’s an issue, but hopefully she’ll find another position somewhere else.” But Serena is not the type to find another job. She says this is the best job she’s ever had so she’ll stay until retirement. And we’re a long ways away.

Our HR is new and young and knows she won’t get backed up by the manager or grandboss if she were to say something to Serena.

It’s gotten so bad that people are starting to take very late lunches just so they won’t have to be in the same room as Serena. Not that it matters, as her office 20 feet from the break room and she’ll “casually” walk into the break room to fill a glass of water to eavesdrop or come out of her office to join in on a conversation if she hears one that interests her. If we close the doors, she’ll prop them back open so she doesn’t “feel cut off from the break room.”

I legitimately feel bad for her department coworkers. They can’t have work conversations lest she come out of her own office to join in. They can’t escape. At least the rest of us are in separate parts of the building.

One of her coworkers has mentioned that it sounds like her husband isn’t the greatest of supports, and maybe she is trying to create what she lacks at home. If she were neurodivergent we would be sympathetic (many of us are), but when we’ve had conversations about neurodivergence, she’s been quite derisive of these diagnoses (although she has plenty of advice!), so we’re assuming she’s at least never been diagnosed.

We’re at our wits’ end, and our mental health is struggling. Our work is stressful, and the camaraderie that used to make it bearable has all but evaporated.

Other tactics we’ve tried:

• Keeping up pace of conversation so she can’t break into it (she’ll wait for you to take a breath to interject, or she’ll interrupt)
• Giving short answers. But she doesn’t take the hint (not sure if she is unable to recognize hints or just ignores them)
• Going outside for breaks (not feasible in winter and we can’t all be outside)
• Pointedly and silently looking at our phones (she does this too and then starts reading posts out loud to everyone)
• Going as a group to lunches/breaks (she gets louder to dominate the conversation)

Is there any way we can help her to help ourselves?

It’s interesting that your list of tactics doesn’t include saying something directly to Serena!

I get why — it feels rude to tell someone you want them to stop talking or to butt out of a conversation. And often hints like the ones you’ve used do work with people. But when the hints fail — and especially when the problem is this severe and you’re this desperate for a solution — the next step has to be to say something directly. For example:

When she interrupts a private conversation:

  • “I’d just like to talk to Jane about this, please give us some privacy.”
  • “We’re having a private conversation — can you shut the door?”

When she tries to tell you how to do your job:

  • “Oh, I’m not looking for input on this.”
  • “Let me stop you there — I’ve got this covered.”
  • “I don’t need any advice on this.”

When she’s monopolizing a meeting:

  • “I’d like to hear from other people.”
  • “You’ve been sharing a lot during this meeting, let’s give some airtime to others.”

When she interrupts:

  • “Can you please wait for Jane to finish?”
  • “I’d like to hear what Jane was saying.”
  • “Please don’t talk over me.”

Other situations:

  • “I came outside for some quiet — please don’t read things out loud.”
  • “It’s distracting to have you standing here while I’m meeting with Jane.”
  • If she opens the break room doors so she doesn’t “feel cut off,” close them again and say, “We want them closed for privacy.”

You are going to feel unkind doing that, because we are socialized to use a much softer approach or even not to speak up at all when someone is being rude. But a softer approach doesn’t work with Serena and no one with any authority is willing to intervene, so it’s this or continue to let her drive you all bananas. In the bluntest terms: you need to choose between (a) feeling slightly rude in the moment but having a chance of improving things or (b) nothing changing.

Frankly, I’d argue that as awkward as you might feel setting these boundaries, doing so is a kindness to Serena in the long-term. Right now everyone dreads having her around; if she changes some of her behavior, she’ll have a much better chance of getting some of the connection she’s presumably looking for. It’s a kindness to clearly state what you want her to do differently.

In fact, if someone is willing to have a big-picture conversation with Serena about the pattern, they’d be doing her a favor.

As for Serena’s boss saying people should “manage their issues between themselves,” are the issues with Serena at the point where they’re affecting people’s work? If so, that’s not an interpersonal issue that people should manage among themselves, and they might try saying, “This is impacting the team’s productivity and we’re at the limits of what we can address ourselves.”

By the way, your grandboss sucks. “Hopefully she’ll quit at some point” is not a management strategy; it’s negligence.

Read an update to this letter. 

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office is too drinking-focused, can I complain about a bad interview a year ago, and more

by Alison Green on May 9, 2023

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. How can we be less drinking-focused when we socialize?

I’ve read a few of your old posts about drinking culture and none of them seemed to get at this thing exactly. Socializing with coworkers is a big part of corporate culture at my workplace, but it’s always been happy hour or drinks-focused. We’re growing and our team is getting more diverse in terms of religion, sobriety, and ability to attend after work social hours due to children, but leadership hasn’t really changed their approach to team building beyond “drinks at the pub.”

I’d like to push back on this attitude but also offer resources to solve this problem or ideas on how to make team-building more attainable. We’re also in a nationally distributed remote/hybrid situation with most people being able to get to a few centralized locations during the week for work, but able to work from home. When folks fly in for meetings or workshops and there is an opportunity to connect, the go-to meet-and-greet suggestion is happy hour and I’m just looking for more options to propose but am wary of leaning into the sorts of team gathering that is heavily sports-focused. Any ideas?

Yep, happy hours can exclude a lot of people — people who don’t drink for health or religious reasons, recovering alcoholics, people who need to get home to care for kids, and people who just don’t like it. You want activities that (a) aren’t so alcohol-focused and (b) take place during work hours. What about a late afternoon in-office mixer with snacks and beverages (including non-alcoholic ones)? Ice cream social? Lunchtime taco truck? Coffee and tea tasting? You still may have people who can’t or don’t want to eat ice cream, tacos, or coffee, but mixing it up and using a bunch of different options over the course of the year will be a lot more inclusive than just drinks every time.

You can also look at non-food options too, but those depend on what the majority of your employees would enjoy. Silly talent show? Video game challenge? Pictionary tournament? There’s no one idea that everyone is guaranteed to like (and with any single activity, you will almost certainly have some people who don’t like it) but, again, if you’re mixing it up and not using the same activity every time — and not making any of this mandatory, officially or unofficially — you’ll be more inclusive over time than you are right now with everything centered around drinking.

2. Can I complain about a bad interview a year ago?

About one year ago, I had an interview with a very disrespectful hiring manager. He started with lies, continued with belittlement and ended with insult. Of course I didn’t want the job and half assed the interview (I did not think I could leave an interview).

Now I want to complain about him to the higher-ups. I don’t want anything, I just want to stand up for myself, because I felt that I let him walk all over me. Disrespect does not have expiration dates. What do you think?

It’s going to come off strangely if you contact them a year later. Job applicants are already at a disadvantage in complaining about interviewers even right after the fact (you’re an unknown quantity with no capital with them, rejected candidates sometimes complain simply because they were rejected so you’re associated with a weird group, etc.). When it’s a year later, you’re going to have even less influence.

Instead, use this as resolve to cut short any interview in the future where you’re treated that way. You can walk out of an interview where you’re being mistreated — for that matter, you can politely cut short an interview where you’re not being mistreated but just know the job isn’t for you — and if you use this situation as impetus to do that next time, it won’t be a wasted experience.

3. Can my job applications somehow convey “I’m better in person”?

I’m doing the digital application slog that precedes the interview portion. In a subversion of the usual interview woes, I am actually very good at interviews! Is there any way to convey in the “tell us more” section of the online applications that I pop more in person and that even a brief chat would help them see the benefit I can bring? Obviously it won’t get me in anywhere I’m not qualified, but for positions where I’m mostly qualified, I can often count on my charisma and interviewing skills to carry me to a “yes.” I want capitalize on that if I can, but I can’t think of a way to relay this information without coming off as a braggart. (It’s hard enough not sounding like it now!)

Not really. A ton of job applicants try to convey some version of “if we could just meet, I think you’d want to hire me” (and often, although not always, the people saying this are not especially strong candidates) so even if it’s more-than-typically true in your case, there’s no way to say it that is more credible than the rest. That’s especially the case because your reason for wanting to meet in person is about charisma and interviewing skills — things employers don’t like to think of themselves as being swayed by, even when they are.

Focus on writing a resume that shows a track record of achievement and an engaging cover letter that explains why you’d excel at this particular job.

4. Why do gift cards feel better than cash for a teacher gift?

A question came up at work today that I wanted your perspective on. One of my coworkers recently transitioned his son from family childcare to a daycare center. He was asking today if it would be appropriate to give a cash tip for teacher appreciation week (and in the future for Christmas) and if so how much? The general consensus was that he should give a gift card, rather than cash, but none of us could quite put a finger on why giving cash to a daycare or preschool teacher felt wrong. We generally agreed that if he had a nanny, a cash bonus would be the best option. He compared it to leaving a cash bonus at Christmas for the mailman or the garbage collector and was struggling to explain why this felt different.

For reference, we are teachers ourselves, and felt that while we appreciate gift cards, getting a cash tip from a parent would feel weird. While he accepted our answer, none of us were really able to explain why it felt wrong to give daycare workers or teachers cash as a thank you. Is there some actual reason we’re missing?

Hmmm! I think it’s a combination of (a) the difference between a gift and a tip, and (b) tradition. We don’t typically tip teachers, but we do give them gifts — so while a gift card is ultimately money, it doesn’t say “tip” the way pure cash does.

I think your use of the word “bonus” might also be tripping you up — a bonus is something added on to your salary by the person who pays for your work. So your employer can give you a bonus, but when you give cash to the mail carrier that’s a tip, not a bonus.

5. Do our hourly employees need to be paid for this?

I work at a clinic that is corporate-owned. We recently hired a new full-time doctor. This doctor is not getting enough clients to keep them busy. As a result, we were trying to come up with ways to get clients in the door. One of those ideas was to have a table, representing the clinic, at the local dog expo. The dog expo was held on a Saturday and Sunday, during non-office hours. The table was manned, in shifts, by the new doctor, the office manager, and two technicians. The new doctor and the office manager are salaried, whereas the technicians are paid by the hour. One of the technicians asked to be paid for her time at the expo. Corporate said it would not be fair to pay the techs and not the doctor or the office manager. The compromise was to buy a nice dinner for the office manager, new doctor, and the two techs.

Is it legal not to pay hourly staff for working on their weekend to try to drum up business for the new doctor? I get not paying salaried staff, but what about the hourly staff?

Nope, it’s not legal. Unlike exempt staff (which definitely includes your doctor and may or may not include the office manager, depending on their job duties), hourly/non-exempt staff are required to be paid for all hours they work, including overtime (time and a half) for any hours over 40 that week. And they have to be paid in money, not dinner.

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our cleaner pressures me to stay late with her because she fears our workplace is haunted

by Alison Green on May 8, 2023

A reader writes:

I have a strange question for you. I’m a graduate student at a university in a large city where I also work evening shifts at the university library. The librarians all leave by 8 pm, leaving one or two student workers to close up the library for the evening at 11 pm. I’m a night owl, so this schedule suits me just fine and there are always enough students around that I feel comfortable walking back to my apartment after work.

My problem is with our night housekeeper, “Mary.” She comes in at 10 pm and stays to clean after everyone else has left. She’s a lovely person and does a great job, but … she is terrified to work alone because she thinks the library is haunted. I’ll be honest, the library is kind of creepy and I don’t enjoy shelving in the stacks after dark, but I just do what needs to be done and return to the circulation desk. Mary has begun to ask me to stay after my shift has ended to keep her company and, when I insist I need to leave, will come up with tasks that she needs my assistance with just so I don’t leave her to work alone.

I honestly don’t know how to respond. If she were fearing for her safety, I would suggest she call campus security to walk her to her car or patrol around the building more frequently, but the only thing she has mentioned being afraid of is the ghosts. I told her she needs to talk to the library manager or the head of housekeeping, but I think she’s embarrassed.

Obviously I don’t have any directives to keep Mary company or assuage her fears, but I feel badly. She needs the job (she’s a single mom who works another job during daytime hours) and I don’t want her to lose it, but I don’t want to spend extra hours sitting at my desk because of paranormal concerns. Any suggestions of how I can help while maintaining my boundaries?

You need to kindly say no and stick to it.

This isn’t like refusing a request to walk someone to their car or something else with a minimal demand on your time. This is someone asking you to stay hours late at your job after your shift is over. It sucks that Mary feels nervous being there alone, but it’s not reasonable for the solution to be that you stay late for hours to keep her company.

The easiest way to do it will be to be very matter-of-fact:

* “I can’t stay late anymore — I need to get home and take care of things there.”

* “Sorry, I can’t! I’m already late getting home.”

* “It’s late for me; I’ve got to get to bed.”

Really, anything you say will probably be fine as long as you say it confidently and stick to it. You don’t need to convince her to be okay with letting you leave; you just need to explain you need to leave and then go.

If it makes it easier for you, you can come up with some obligation that you need to be home for — your sister is staying with you and is waiting up, you’ve got a dog to walk, or whatever you’re comfortable saying.

If she comes up with tasks that she needs your help with as a way of keeping you there, it’s okay to say no to that too: “I really can’t, I’m already late leaving.”

Re-reading your letter, I get the sense you’re hoping there’s some other way you can help Mary. But ultimately, Mary has to figure out whether she’s willing to keep the job as it currently exists (meaning she’s going to be working alone in a building that apparently gives her the creeps) or whether she wants to see if it’s possible to adjust her hours or whatever other way she’d be comfortable handling this. That’s not something you can solve for her (if anything, you’re probably just helping her kick that question down the road) and it’s really okay for you to leave when your work is over.

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how do I politely end conversations at networking events?

by Alison Green on May 8, 2023

A reader writes:

Once you’ve got talking to someone at a networking event, and both people have got what they needed out of the conversation, how do you politely move on?

I’m on the board of an association that pays for me to attend various networking events. I want to get the most out of the event both for myself and my organization, meeting people who may want to collaborate, engaging industry leaders, and chatting to a cross-section of the community. But sometimes I get stuck — it’s not that I don’t want to talk to the person, I just need to circulate!

I know a few people who are so good at extracting themselves from conversations without fuss that I don’t even notice them moving around. While I’m happy to say “I must circulate” to people I know well, it seems rude to just cut off the flow of conversation with someone you’ve only just met. In that situation, I usually say something awkward like, “I must pop to the toilet” which … isn’t that elegant.

I don’t want anyone to think I don’t value their conversation. Do you have any scripts I could use to move on without causing offense?

I answer this question — and three others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • Should I tell a freelancer she’s not charging enough?
  • Replying to the wrong optional emails on vacation
  • I’m embarrassed about the year I got my degree
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I think my employee is being abused by her partner

by Alison Green on May 8, 2023

Content warning for discussion of abuse below.

A reader writes:

I have been a director at my organization for a few years now in a small town. We have a staff of 23. Some have been here for 20+ years, some are new, but it’s a pretty great group of people and we all work well together.

To get right to the point, one of my employees, Carrie, appears to be in an abusive relationship and doesn’t realize it. She had a very religious upbringing (not uncommon for the area or amongst the staff) and met her now husband, Bob, when she was 15 and he was in his mid-twenties. They’ve been together for 10 years or so.

Bob is dismissive, arrogant, and entitled, and has physically grabbed Carrie at work, even through the Covid shields. Multiple staff have come to me with scenarios that make them uncomfortable, although they (and Carrie) often brush it off, saying, “That’s probably an inside joke” or “I’m sure he means well.” She frequently shares stories as venting/joking, but they leave us all floored, and sometimes horrified, but nothing actionable.

Multiple staff who are close with her have told me about incidents, the most jarring being Bob seeing her waiting (he is frequently late picking her up, which is a problem especially in winter, when temps are often -35) and when he arrives, he will accelerate his car in the very small parking lot, nearly hitting her. He always slams on the brakes or swerves, but it’s concerning to all of us. One time, Carrie was waiting next to a building and he accelerated directly at it/her, so there’s no mistake he’s doing this deliberately to frighten her.

Other times she’ll call him to see if he’s there and he’ll yell at her that he’s been waiting for her, but when they get outside, he’s nowhere to be seen. When she calls again, he says he’s just leaving and he doesn’t understand why she thinks he was there already.

I don’t know how to counsel my staff, much less help Carrie. My greatest fear is that he will kill her and tell the police that it was “just a joke.” I am also afraid that if I directly confront him, he will force her to quit and then she will have no support system nearby.

Please, any advice would be helpful. This is so far out of anything I’ve had to deal with in over a decade of management. I genuinely don’t know what to do.

Oh no, this is awful.

I wanted to bring experts in on this, so I spoke with Micaela Deming, the policy director for the DC Coalition Against Domestic Violence, who said:

Domestic violence survivors are constantly navigating their safety. They are the experts in their abusive partner’s behavior and should be empowered to make the decisions about their safety. If there are any children involved, studies show that the abusive parent (some studies specifically say abusive father) is likely to get more time with or even full custody of the children than a non-abusive father or a parent raising the abuse in a custody case. During and after separation from an abusive partner is also the most dangerous time for a domestic violence victim. These are just two examples of how complicated it can be to leave an abusive relationship.

The manager is absolutely right to be concerned that the abuser would force the employee to quit their job if the employer took any action to intercede. Losing a job and supportive colleagues increases isolation and the amount of control that the abuser has over the victim. However, this workplace, like all workplaces, has a great deal that they can do to support survivors of domestic violence. Work is a place where training and support can be provided to all employees during normal work hours. Even a safe space and phone number to call a domestic violence victim advocate or hotline can be a lifeline that is too often not available at home or with a cell phone that the abuser has access to. Having a safe place, time, and access to technology that the abuser cannot track can be key to a domestic violence victim being able to get information, make choices, and plan to leave the relationship if that is what they choose to do.

Workplaces should have policies in place to address the impacts of domestic violence against employees … policies should include safety for the workplace, flexibility, and leave for survivors to address the medical, mental health, legal, and other challenges created or exacerbated by the abuse. This is a good place for workplaces to get started. During the development of the policies or on a regular basis, the employer can bring in a local domestic violence organization to provide some training and information to the staff. Given the rates of domestic violence, there is a good chance that more than one person on staff can use the information or knows people that may need the resources.

Ultimately, for a person who may not be identifying their situation as domestic violence, letting them know that there are resources available and that the office will be supportive is a great place to start. If the employee decides to reach out for support or make a plan to leave, they will know that keeping their job (and income) is not going to be a barrier to safety.

I asked Micaela, “Would it be a good idea for this manager to name what they’re seeing to Carrie? If she has somehow normalized his behavior in her head, I wondered if it would helpful for someone at work to say, ‘Whoa, this is not normal or okay.’” Her response:

Yes, I think it can be helpful and supportive to tell the employee (in a safe, separate place) that they are concerned, that way they are seeing is not normal. The relationship here is important because if the manager comes on too strongly or suggests that there is a “right thing” for the employee to do, it can create a barrier for the employee to reach out for help later. Simply expressing concern, saying that is not normal, resources are available if you ever want to talk to someone is okay.

Putting up a flier in the bathroom stalls and break areas, talking about the company policy, having a staff training, are all also ways to help the survivor recognize the signs and red flags in their own relationship in a non-direct way.

I also spoke with Leigh Honeywell, cofounder and CEO of Tall Poppy, a cybersecurity and personal safety startup which deals with workplace violence issues. She offered this advice:

Talk 1:1 with the employee at a time where she’s not otherwise stressed (as much as you’re able to determine that). Describe your own observations of concerning interactions in a neutral, factual manner. Do your best to convey concern without judgement; the goal is to open the conversation and establish a lifeline of safe communication and support. Avoid assumptions about the employee’s awareness or not of the abusive nature of her relationship — the goal is to focus on concrete behaviors that you or colleagues have witnessed her being subjected to to start with.

Share resources such as an EAP, local crisis center information, and thehotline.org or the local equivalent if they are outside the U.S. Depending on the jurisdiction, there may be protected domestic-violence-specific leave available to the employee – New York is one example that has such a “Safe Leave” law.

Leigh also suggested creating a safety plan that includes what the workplace should do if Bob calls or physically comes into the office:

My concern is not only that the manager’s fear that Bob will kill Carrie is very justified, but that he’s also a threat to the workplace more generally. Current or former intimate partners accounted for nearly 33% of women killed in US workplaces between 2003 and 2008, according to The Hotline.

… Given that he has already been physically aggressive to her on site, I’d also recommend that he immediately not be allowed physically on-site to protect other colleagues, but that that should be communicated sensitively given his aggression. The Hotline has a great safety planning resource to start with.

I asked Leigh, “If they tell Carrie that her partner is not allowed on-site anymore (which seems very reasonable), should they be concerned that he’ll react badly to that and force her to quit the job, thus depriving her of what could be a lifeline? And if so, are there ways they could mitigate that?” She said:

That’s definitely a concern, and comes down to balancing the safety (physical and emotional) of the organization overall with her personal safety, unfortunately – while also recognizing that pressuring the victim to quit their job is a classic way abusers isolate and control their victims. The details of any such limits on his presence should be part of the safety planning discussion; strategies for mitigating the impact will depend a lot on the individual circumstances of the office, e.g. it may be easy for a healthcare organization to say “no non-staff/non-patients past the front desk,” etc. It may be that he’s not allowed inside the building, or past a front desk – but there should definitely be a conversation about his presence with folks in the front office as well so that they know to be alert to his presence and escalate to security if needed.

Leigh also addressed what you can do if employees bring up concerns about the stories Carrie is sharing:

• Validate their concerns as being appropriate given the nature of the stories, and that you are concerned as well but can’t go into detail out of respect for the employee’s privacy.
• Convey that it is appropriate to gently de-normalize these disturbing accounts, and share their own feelings such as “that’s a really upsetting story” or “I’m concerned about how he treats you.”
• Share resources like the EAP for them to seek their own support.
• Discuss any workplace safety plans/resources that are in place or being put in place.

I hope this helps, letter-writer.

If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-7233.

Also recommended: Helping Her Get Free by Susan Brewster (Leigh says it’s “super useful for anyone supporting someone of any gender dealing with abuse”).

Read an update to this letter. 

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HR director issued an “it’s him or me” ultimatum, interviewing in the midst of dental work, and more

by Alison Green on May 8, 2023

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Our HR director issued an “it’s him or me” ultimatum

I work remote customer service for a small blue collar company and was recently also made executive assistant to the owner, Michael. We’ve known each other for years, so he has a tendency to talk to me about issues. Today he shared something that has me very concerned. The business has only been around for four years and has grown like crazy, as well as experienced its share of growing pains. A couple of years back we hired “Pam” to build an HR department from the ground up. She remains the sole HR representative. She has a lot of experience in the field and has been a life saver in many ways as we navigate the transition into a “real” company. We’re now up to 40+ employees with two not quite perfectly defined layers of management between a floor worker and the owner. Pam is apparently butting heads severely with a floor worker, “Toby.”

Toby has voiced concerns about Pam to her, as well as to Michael, and apparently also to other people on the floor, particularly new hires. He has started undermining some of her initiatives. The issue has lasted for several months, with both sides coming to Michael to complain. Today Pam gave Michael an ultimatum that it’s either her or Toby.

The problem is that Toby hasn’t done anything to warrant being let go and his complaints about Pam, according to Michael, are not groundless. Pam balances all her knowledge and experience with a difficult personality and a tendency to manipulate, take things personally, and play politics. In fact, I have seen a pattern like this before, where another employee seemed to butt heads with Pam and then was fired very unexpectedly. When Michael has tried to work with her to try and resolve Toby’s issues, she has “not budged.” So while Toby is starting to act out, it’s not without cause.

While Michael acknowledges that Pam is more in the wrong than Toby, he feels like he has no choice but to accept her ultimatum because “we can not afford to reboot HR right now.” Or at best, to go to Toby and tell him that his job is at stake if he can’t find a way to “get back on Pam’s good side” because he’d have to choose her over Toby.

As Michael was telling me about this, alarm bells were going off in my head, with all the letters you have posted about toxic workplaces with vindictive HR departments flashing through my mind. From what I know of Pam, this feels much more like a power play between her and Michael, rather than her and Toby. She is using the threat of quitting to get rid of Toby’s criticism and to get Michael to back off from trying to hold her accountable. It seems like caving would set the precedent that she can hold the company hostage. I personally think that the correct answer is for Michael to call her bluff. But I’m curious if you think maybe I’m being blinded by my own distrust of Pam? Or if you have any advice on how Michael can handle things because he’s definitely feeling like he’s stuck in a no-win situation.

You sound 100% right to me. If Michael thinks Pam is more in the wrong than Toby but fires Toby anyway, he’s creating a dynamic (and it sounds like may have already created a dynamic) where Pam isn’t accountable for anything she does, and she’ll know it. She can behave as problematically as she wants, and the consequences will only be for others, not for her. This would be unworkable in any circumstances, but it’s especially silly to allow it here just because she created all your HR at the start. That’s not an irreplaceable role — far from it! You can hire other HR people who can take over where she left off, and who presumably will be better at doing the work because they won’t come with her toxic approach.

“A difficult personality and a tendency to manipulate, take things personally, and play politics” are not things you want in an HR person, and frankly Michael should be thinking about replacing her regardless of the situation with Toby! Maybe those traits weren’t as disruptive when you were at a smaller size (although I doubt that) but if you’re growing into a bigger company, you really need someone professional and trustworthy heading your HR. Pam is not that.

Read an update to this letter. 

Related:
my employee gave me an “it’s her or me” ultimatum

2. My boss won’t let me borrow against my future leave anymore

I work at a place where we accrue leave each pay period. Our handbook says that we can’t borrow against our leave (take unaccrued time off) without permission from our supervisor and our senior vice president. Recently, my boss wouldn’t let me take unaccrued time after previously granting these requests. We’ve had a bit of a dispute about it, and now they are not allowing me to take any leave at all until I’ve accrued enough time to cover it.

This policy has been fairly common at most places I’ve worked, but this is the first time I’ve ever had it invoked as a way to block my time off. If I had been told “this is a busy time” or “we’re short-staffed right now,” I would have understood, but this feels completely arbitrary. What should I do? I’m seriously considering getting a new job because of this, mainly because I’m 100% certain this policy isn’t being enforced consistently in our organization.

It’s pretty common not to allow people to take unaccrued leave at all; a lot of organizations make exceptions to that only for emergencies. It sounds like your employer isn’t one of them, but it also sounds like you’ve been doing it a lot, and it’s not inherently unreasonable for your manager to want some limits on that. Generally the thinking is that they’ve hired you on the assumption that you’ll be at work a certain percentage of the time, and if you’re repeatedly taking leave before you’ve accrued it, it can mean you’re not at work as much as they had planned around. Or the issue could be the liability it creates for them; if you leave before you’ve earned that leave back, it can be a headache to get it paid back.

If you’re 100% sure that other people have been allowed to take more unaccrued leave than you have (and under similar circumstances to your own; i.e., don’t compare you wanting it for vacation with someone needing it for a medical emergency) … well, different managers may have different outlooks on this. It sounds like your boss has been willing to grant some in the past, but no longer is. You can certainly decide you don’t want the job under those conditions, but it’s a very common restriction.

3. I don’t want my high performers to face resentment over their raises

We just went through our annual compensation cycle and with the current economic climate, we gave smaller raises than typical for our company (think 3% instead of 5%). We had several employees push back, and leadership decided to make a few changes for some mission critical employees, but are declining the rest of the requests. In total, about 1% of total staff are going to see a change to the original merit increase.

As a manager communicating both the denials and approvals to my team, I’m struggling with what to say to the people who are getting what they asked for. We very clearly state in our firm’s compensation philosophy that we encourage open dialogue around compensation, and I know my team talks about their salaries together. In this specific situation, I think someone talking about how they were one of the very few to get recognized might backfire on their relationship with their team. I am confident in the choices we made and if an employee comes to me with a complaint I feel I’m able to defend why we are saying no to them, but I don’t want my high performers to get singled out by their coworkers. Is there a good way to say, you’re free to talk about this but just know that you’re in the minority and your colleagues might not be that happy for you right now?

Tread really lightly here, because it’s easy for anything you say along those lines to be interpreted as you trying to squelch discussions about wages, which can violate the National Labor Relations Act. I do think you could say something like, “We had a number of requests to increase people’s raises this year. We declined almost all of them, but we’re increasing yours because (insert specifics about their work). You’re of course always welcome to discuss wages with coworkers, but that might be helpful context to have this year.”

I’m not even sure you should say that much though; this topic tends to be so sensitive that the potential for misinterpretation is high (and it only takes one person saying “Jane implied I should keep this a secret” to cause a lot of drama, so you definitely want to know your team with this one). The big thing is to be prepared to talk with anyone who’s disappointed about why their raise ended up where it did (which it sounds like you are).

4. Job interviewing in the middle of dental work

I’m currently in the midst of some extensive dental work and my teeth are pretty messed up right now. And I just found out I’m being transitioned out of my job due to changes in the company. When I’m interviewing, should I mention my dental situation is temporary or would that be more unprofessional?

When you’re self-conscious about something like this, I’m a fan of just naming it matter-of-factly. For example: “Please excuse my teeth, I’m right in the middle of some dental work.” It’s not that you should have to explain it — you don’t — but addressing it sounds likely to make you more comfortable so you’re not worried about what they’re thinking throughout the whole interview. Plus, naming things like this often will make people want to set you at ease and can make them less inclined to be judgy about it if there was a risk of that.

5. Contacting a coworker after they left unexpectedly

Around six months ago, my company hired a new operations VP. As the only woman in my department, I was excited to get to know her and learn from her impressive background and experience. We were able to meet one-on-one a few times and I got some valuable advice from her about corporate life and career growth.

Yesterday I saw a notification on our homepage that she has “left the company to pursue other interests.” No other information was given.

After I saw that, I added her on LinkedIn and she added me back. Would it be in poor taste to ask why she left? To be completely candid, I’m concerned that the company may be failing but leadership is not being transparent about our situation. If it is appropriate to ask, what language would you recommend? If it’s not appropriate, could you explain why?

With someone you’ve only met with a few times one-on-one, you probably don’t know her well enough to ask straight-out why she left, especially in an initial message; the risk is that you’ll seem like you’re demanding information that she might not care to share. (That’s not to say you can’t ask, “What are you doing now” or related questions — just that a head-on “why did you leave?” might feel like a bit much.) But you could get in touch, tell her what you appreciated about your meetings, ask what she’s doing now, and say you’d like to stay in touch. If she’s chatty/friendly in her response, you could then mention your own concerns. For example: “Between you and me, I’m concerned about XYZ at Org. If that’s something you saw too, I’d be so grateful for your perspective, especially as someone who left recently! Let me know if I can buy you coffee sometime, or even just jump on the phone if it’s a conversation you’re open to.”

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weekend open thread – May 6-7, 2023

by Alison Green on May 5, 2023

This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand.

Here are the rules for the weekend posts.

Book recommendation of the week: Limelight, by Amy Poeppel – A stressed out mom has a run-in with a troubled teen pop star and develops an unexpectedly rewarding relationship with him.

* I make a commission if you use that Amazon link.

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it’s your Friday good news

by Alison Green on May 5, 2023

It’s your Friday good news!

1.  “I work in a niche position for a large government agency that has a central headquarters and various offices around the world. When I moved to my current office location 4 years ago, my section had a unique mission to the organization and a large staff who supported that mission.

A couple of years ago, that mission, along with its funding source, went away and it threw my whole office, and especially my section, into turmoil. We had to cut half our staff, which we managed to do through natural attrition, but there was a period of months where rumors were flying about a reduction-in-force. Our headquarters was even considering whether the entire office location should be shuttered. It was rough, and what made it worse is the senior leadership at our office refused to communicate with the staff about what was happening. They deliberately kept everything close hold while it got figured out, while the rumors flew and uncertainty mounted.

It all came to a head when my star employee gave his two weeks notice because he got tired of the instability and took a job elsewhere. My grandboss kind of freaked out and scheduled a meeting with me because he was concerned that I would leave, too. He shared how much I was appreciated and wanted to hear my concerns and how he could address them. I figured there wasn’t much to lose, so I was extremely candid with him about the lack of communication and its impact on morale and mission. He thanked me for my response, and I figured that would be the end of it.

Then, two months later, my grandboss scheduled another check-in. I went into the meeting having no idea what to expect, since anything more would just be rehashing what I had already shared. He reiterated how much he values my work and that my niche skill set is very much needed at our office. Cue my absolute shock when he announced that they were offering me a retention incentive to commit to staying in my job for the next 18 months.

Since then, I’ve seen a huge difference in the respect my senior leadership has shown for my skill set and contributions, and am feeling more satisfied with the work I’m doing. And, of course, the extra money doesn’t hurt.”

2.  “My good news is a little out of date, but it’s definitely thanks to what I’ve learned reading AAM! This past summer, my boss retired, and I was able to apply internally to take his place. I now supervise four employees in my department at a university and – while it’s a lot more work than my former job, and there continues to be a ton to learn – I LOVE it! My boss was pretty darn checked out by the end of his tenure, and it’s been so satisfying to identify things that were falling through the cracks and figure out solutions; to actively engage with the task of managing staff and supporting them in the work they want to do; and to be in a place where I have more leverage to make things work better for everyone.

My staff have all been great about the transition (several of them have been here significantly longer than I have), and we were able to hire someone into my old role who is working out better than I could have possibly dreamed. We’ve gotten feedback from students that the services we provide are working well for them, which at the end of the day is one of the most important things.

Best of all, my partner and I are expecting a baby, and the pay bump from my new role will allow him to quit his (low-paid and extremely stressful) job in public education to stay home when the baby is born. This has been something he’s talked about as long as we have known each other, and in my old job there would’ve been no feasible way to make it happen.

Things are not all sunshine and roses, of course (public higher ed will always have its challenges, not least of which are money and staffing, as well as the day to day stuff). But I’m feeling grateful for where I am right now!”

3.  “A little over a year ago, I emailed you to ask whether I can negotiate a raise when applying for a lateral transfer that did not require an interview. My boss soon informed me that an interview would be required because the job description was in the process of being revised, but an updated description was never provided.

After two months, I informed my boss that I was looking for jobs in other departments and may apply at other organizations if I did not receive additional information about the transfer opportunity and the funding status of my current position. She completely understood, tried her best to get more information, and supported my job search. She even provided me with the salary range for a promotional opportunity I found and set up an informational interview with the hiring manager of that position.

During the informational interview, I realized that the promotional opportunity was not right for me. Frustrated, I started looking for jobs at other companies that night.

A few days later, I saw an opening that fit my skills and interests. I was interviewed for the position a few days later and it was a great fit The pay would be higher, the job would be fully remote, and I would be able to learn new things About a week later, the company asked if I was interested in a different job at the same level as the first one. I decided to apply for that job as well and was offered it a few days later. They even increased my title due to my experience and I negotiated a slightly higher salary.

I have been at the job for almost a year now and could not be happier. Your advice helped me manage uncertainty, be open with my manager, follow my instincts, get this job, and then deal with changes in management. Plus, the community continues to offer so much support. Thank you!”

4.  “A few weeks ago, I noticed my coworker was not quite their cheery self. In our next one-on-one I decided to mention it and let them know I was here to support them. My coworker let me know they were navigating some personal stuff and they appreciated me checking in. Thanks to all the advice you have given over the years, I felt more capable of having that conversation in a way that respected work/life boundaries. For example, I didn’t ask for details on the personal issues (they weren’t relevant!) and instead focused on what kind of support would be helpful in the workplace (moving deadlines, taking on a more time sensitive task myself). I also offered them the number of our company’s EAP — something I only know exists because of AAM!

I don’t mean to be too self-congratulatory, I just wanted to take a moment to let you know that all the advice you have given others helped me walk the line of acknowledging how the rest of our lives will follow us into the workplace, while still respecting that we were in a workplace. I’m newish to my career and workplace, so your blog has been a huge gift to help me figure out where my boundaries are and how to enact them in a way that still gives me the reputation of a helpful, friendly coworker.”

5.  “I’ve been a daily reader of AAM for over 5 years and am SO excited to share good news!

Up until about a month ago, I was working as a faculty-level researcher in a scientific field in academia. By the standards of my field, I was considered to be successful: papers published, grants successfully funded, etc. But the more I progressed along the academic track, the more I wondered whether there could be other paths for me that would allow for better work-life balance, more collaborative work (academic research can feel very siloed), and higher earning power. I wasn’t totally sure how to approach a job search outside of academia, but I talked to as many people as I could, worked away at some online courses that I thought could be relevant, and put together a resume and cover letter using advice I found on AAM.

After about 6 months of information-gathering, applying, and interviewing, I finally got an offer from a company whose mission I’m really excited about! I successfully negotiated the offer, accepted, and I’ve now been at my new job for about a month. I absolutely love it and have learned so much already, while also being able to use a lot of the skills I developed during my academic research career. My starting base salary at my new job is also 20% more than I was making in academia, even though my current position is relatively low within the structure of the company (whereas I was considered an expert in my academic field).

To anyone who is interested in making an academia-to-industry move, please know that it is possible! I had honestly been wishing for a long time that I could leave academia but didn’t pursue it because I assumed my specific skill set wouldn’t be marketable in industry. It wasn’t until I started actively seeking out informational interviews with others who had made this switch (some were former colleagues or friends of friends, others were total strangers who I cold-emailed on LinkedIn!) that I realized my skills and experience were actually really valuable; I just needed to understand how to adapt and frame them a bit differently. I owe a debt of gratitude to everyone who helped me figure all of that out, as well as to Alison and the AAM community—I know that this site was instrumental in helping me understand professional norms outside of academia, as well as in showing me that people can and do change jobs and careers, and that it’s okay to do that when the time is right.”

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open thread – May 5-6, 2023

by Alison Green on May 5, 2023

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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