open thread – May 5-6, 2023 by Alison Green on May 5, 2023 It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers. * If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer. You may also like:the new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewedI ran into my new boss in the apartment of my one-night standhere's a bunch of help finding a new job { 997 comments }
can I comment on personal appointments on people’s calendars, bringing a kid with mono to work, and more by Alison Green on May 5, 2023 It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go… 1. Can I comment on personal appointments on people’s work calendars? Something I’ve wondered about for a while: sometimes I see calendar events on my supervisor’s calendar that are non-work-related, but also not marked as private (so name and location are visible). Is it acceptable to ever say something to my supervisor like, “How was that restaurant you went to over the weekend? I’ve always wanted to try it out.” Or should I keep quiet about things like that? I’d err on the side of not commenting. When people use their work calendars to track non-work engagements too (which a lot of people do because it’s easier to have everything in one place), there’s generally a polite fiction in place that colleagues won’t comment on personal appointments. 2. My coworker wanted to bring her kid with strep and mono to work We recently had a kerfuffle at work with Bring Your Kid To Work Day. Our coworker, Karen, posted on our slack channel Tuesday that her child had strep AND mono, but she was going to bring the child to our office on Thursday anyway. I replied and said that is a bad idea and you need to consider coworkers who might have undisclosed medical conditions. I am a level above Karen, although she does not report to me. It is even worse because the event has an FAQ that specifically says not to bring sick children, and they have a virtual event parents can do from home instead. Today I got a call from my supervisor chastising me for “not respecting” Karen because I told her not to bring her ill child to the office. He also said it was a HIPAA violation. (We do not work in health care.) Another coworker had told Karen that they had serious health conditions and getting mono for them would be very, very severe. So I told my boss that we had a higher obligation to the employee than to a child who has no relationship to our company. One person is required to be here (we have a return to office mandate) and the other one does not. Also, if the coworker with the illness has not officially requested an accomodation, this isn’t a textbook ADA violation, but would they have any standing to say they made a reasonable request and we put them at risk anyway? End story, the ill child will still be coming into the office and her parent has no plans to disclose that she has mono to the other 450 children in attendance. I am on thin ice with my boss for daring to tell this coworker it was a bad idea. And the entire team is angry with her for her lack of judgement. Are there ADA considerations here? What would have been a better way for my boss to navigate this conflict? Even if there isn’t an ADA mandate, don’t we have a responsibility not to willfully expose workers to contagious viruses? Have we learned nothing from Covid? Nothing here is a HIPAA violation (HIPAA only applies to health care workers and a few other very narrowly defined categories) but your manager’s actions are a serious violation of common sense. Whether there’s an ADA issue in play would depend on details I don’t have, like whether your coworker’s condition is covered by the ADA and whether they had asked not to be exposed to the child (or to people with mono or strep in general). They wouldn’t have to have made a formal request for accommodation under the ADA; employers are required to comply with the ADA even if the employee doesn’t specifically cite the law in making a request. But I don’t think the ADA is the most fruitful way to tackle this regardless — because even without that coworker with the serious condition, bringing a child with strep and mono into your office is so clearly a terrible idea for everyone (including all the other kids who would be there that day too). Ideally you would have skipped over your manager once it became clear he was making such a ridiculous call and gone to HR and/or whoever was organizing the event, to point out that Karen had announced she planned violate the event’s clearly stated health policy. And yes, you’re correct, we’ve learned nothing from Covid. 3. We’re required to be back in the office but the workspace is terrible Two months ago, our multinational company’s CEO sent out an email saying employees whose jobs are categorized as hybrid are all expected to be in the office four days a week. This was in the middle of a layoff announcement, so the pushback was minimal. I honestly don’t mind going into the office, but our 20-person team is still hybrid. More than half the team work remotely, either because of their job categories or because they are in different cities. All of our meetings are Zoom and we have no hybrid meeting rooms. This means that those of us in the office are all signing on to the same team meetings from our desks on Zoom. Or that people in our shared workspace are talking on Zoom meetings while others are trying to work. It is loud and distracting! I find this physically stressful and it affects my productivity and mood. I don’t understand why we have to come into the office if we are still primarily communicating on Slack and Zoom. Everyone agrees it’s a problem but I’m the only one who keeps bringing it up in meetings with management, saying we need Zoom rooms. The response is that we don’t have enough space for all of our employees and that I should get noise-canceling headphones. Isn’t the whole point of the mandate that we are supposed to be collaborating more? I feel like if our division head is going to enforce the mandate, the least they can do is make sure that our physical workspace allows us to be as productive as we are at home. I hate being a squeaky wheel, but since the executives all have large private offices, I don’t see how this issue gets resolved unless we keep voicing it. Unfortunately, I seem to be the only one willing to bring this up. Should I just give up? If you’re the only one bringing it up … probably. You’re right on the facts — it makes no sense to bring people back to the office if you’re all going to sit on Zoom calls with remote staff all day anyway — but if you’ve raised it and been ignored/shut down and there aren’t enough other people joining you to make a concerted group push, it’s unlikely that you’ll make any headway, at least right now. (For what it’s worth, you probably weren’t going to get a lot of traction with the noise argument regardless; lots of offices have always had people on calls all day. The “why are we coming in if it makes our work harder without adding any benefit?” is a stronger argument, but a lot of management teams have decided they’re not swayed by it.) 4. My boss makes lots of typos — should I offer to proofread her newsletters? I’m an elementary school teacher. My principal is a wonderful person. She’s great with the kids, the staff and the parents. When she sends out a newsletter or email, however, I wince from the number of typos. She’s a big fan of the apostrophe plural and frequently confuses there/they’re, your/you’re, etc. Nothing catastrophic, but as a school, I think this reflects poorly on us. I’d be happy to proofread these for her, but there’s no way I can broach this without acting like I feel that I’m smarter than her. I should leave this to the grandbosses and stay in my own lane, right? Yeah, you should leave it alone. If someone above her cares, they’ll raise it with her. You’re right that it looks bad; it’s just not your job to fix it. Plus, the last thing you need as a teacher is more unpaid work. My high school principal used to do the same thing, and teenage me took extreme pleasure in marking up his communications with red pen and leaving them in his office in-box. Fortunately your students aren’t at that age yet. Related: are senior execs too busy for spelling and grammar? You may also like:my boss wants to know what the private appointments on my calendar arecoworker gave me a smaller gift, volunteer is a hoarder, and moreemployee stole a coworker's food delivery, drinking non-alcoholic beer at work, and more { 584 comments }
should we put off firing an employee for several months so he doesn’t violate probation? by Alison Green on May 4, 2023 A reader writes: I work at a small, fully remote start up, and I am HR — but wasn’t hired for that, and am learning HR as I go. I generally take care of day-to-day HR responsibilities but am not responsible for higher level personnel decisions. A manager high in the company, Tiffany, has been having ongoing problems with an employee’s performance. The employee, Pete, was moved to a new role a few months ago that she thought might be a better fit for him, and the problems have continued. Tiffany showed me extensive documentation of written communication they’ve had about his work and how frequently she’s been correcting him, asking him to do things differently, and then having to check in and ask why it wasn’t done the way she asked. She’s made it clear to me that Pete cares a lot about his work and is trying very hard, but is continually causing a lot more work for her as she goes behind him to fix things and has to meet with him much more frequently than any of her other employees. He just wrapped up a big project where deadlines weren’t met because of his performance, and she is ready to let him go. The catch here is that Pete has committed a crime in the past and is on probation for several more months — probation that is dependent on him remaining employed. Tiffany, along with our CEO, want to be as kind as possible to Pete and not do anything to endanger his probation when it is so close to ending, but Tiffany said she truly does not want him working on anything else because of how much more work it creates for her. I suggested giving him a month’s notice that we would be letting him go and encouraging him to transition over his work to other team members and otherwise he could use work time to job search, but they were concerned that that wouldn’t be enough time to find employment, which I can agree with. I suggested that if they want to wait until his probation ends, they could put him on a PIP that ends then, or just wait until then to let him know that we’re letting him go. Tiffany was absolute that she did not have any projects she wanted him working on, and her ideal scenario would be to keep Pete employed but not actually let him do any work for nearly four months. And, well, that’s what she and the CEO decided to do, basically. They gave him a termination notice letting him know that his employment would be ended the same day his probation ends, unless he decided to quit sooner, which is a date nearly four months away. Tiffany doesn’t have anything at all that she wants to let Pete work on in that time, aside from whatever is needed to transition his work to other people, and encouraged him to use work hours to job search. What do you think of this? On the one hand, I appreciate knowing that my company does not let people go callously, and that our CEO cares so much about being compassionate to employees — no one should treat someone’s livelihood lightly. That said, this seems so extreme, and not something that would be doable for every employee (anyone would like four months notice of being fired, right?). How would you have recommended we handle it? Well … it depends a lot on context. In general, employers wield so much power in the employment relationship that they should default toward compassion when they can. If someone risks going to prison if you end their employment now rather than a few months from now (which is presumably what violating a condition of his probation could mean), I’d like to try to extend it if we can. But whether that’s reasonable depends on a lot of factors. One of the biggest is what you’ve done for other people when firing them and what you’re willing to do in the future. If others with a similar level of performance problems as Pete have been let go immediately, and Pete happens to be demographically different from that group in some way (race, religion, age, sex, etc.), you risk it opening you up to legal issues down the road even if your intent wasn’t to be discriminatory. (That’s not to say you can never make an exception for someone in a situation like this. You can! You’re allowed to exercise independent judgment in this stuff. But you’ve also got to consider what risks it could create for you as a company. “Risks” doesn’t equal “you definitely would lose a lawsuit over this” — a nuance that some HR departments seem to lose sight of — but you do need to be sure you’re taking it into account.) I’d also care about how Pete has conducted himself through all this. If he’s been trying hard and working in good faith, it’s understandable to be more motivated to try to help him than if he hasn’t been. Other context can matter too. For example, if Pete has been struggling in part because he signed on to do one type of work but the role ended up requiring him to do another, Tiffany might (and should) feel an especially high degree of obligation to make sure she doesn’t blow up his life over it. The same goes if she recruited him aggressively from a job he was thriving in or talked him into moving across the country to work for her, or if he has worked for the company for 20 years, or a number of other things that could make her feel extra obligated to ensure a softer landing for him now. Plus, there’s the organization/team’s broader financial context — some orgs couldn’t afford to pay someone to do nothing for several months, even if they wanted to. Others could do it easily (and do that regularly if you look at some of their employees’ productivity…). And there’s the question of how Pete ended up on probation too! Some people get a raw deal from the justice system and it’s a kindness not to make it rawer if you have that ability. And other cases … are not that. All of which is to say, there’s no one right answer here because it depends on so many specifics. As HR, your role is definitely to point out the need to be careful legally. But beyond that, there’s nothing wrong with defaulting toward compassion. Not endless compassion — you can’t let someone continue performing at a low level long-term — but a short, time-limited exercise in compassion under fairly extreme circumstances? I appreciate your company’s desire to do it. You may also like:I'm frustrated that my employee didn't want the post-baby flexibility I arranged for hermy company fired a bad employee, then un-fired him the same daymy coworker asked out a coworker, got turned down, and now won't stop badmouthing her { 228 comments }
updates: coworker keeps saying I’m too muscular, work is ruining one of my closest friendships, and more by Alison Green on May 4, 2023 Here are three updates from past letter-writers. 1. Coworker keeps saying I’m too muscular In the time since you published my letter I went to the director of our clinic, Robert, to ask him if he had any concerns about my appearance, performance, or demeanour. Robert is in fact Jane’s brother-in-law, and he had been the person who hired me. He is aware of my appearance and also of my history (in another life I was a 1%er, which is a large part of why I look the way I do) when he hired me, so I assumed he would not have any issues. Robert told me to just ignore Jane and said that “Indian women just love drama” (his words, not mine, they are both Indian). I came away from the conversation with the understanding that a) he has no concerns about me, b) he basically ignores Jane, and c) he has no intention of intervening on my behalf. Shortly afterwards, a few of us were standing around talking during a quiet period with no clients in the clinic. Another practitioner asked me a question about exercise, and as I began to answer Jane interjected with another negative comment, saying that I’m obsessed with exercise and fitness and that my coworker shouldn’t want to look like me. I used this as an opportunity to use a script I had been rehearsing, asking Jane to please refrain from commenting on my body as it was making me uncomfortable. Jane stepped right in front of me, and responded with a comment so barbed and below-the-belt that I am unwilling to repeat it here. I tensed up so much that I cracked my phone I was holding, but I was able to repeat my request for her to not make comments about my appearance and then leave the situation. After this, I have realised that Jane will not change. I will have to decide if this is a workplace where I want to continue working. I suspect it is not. I am sorry that I do not have a happier update, but I wanted to express my thanks again for your advice. 2. Work is ruining one of my closest friendships Thank you so much for your advice. Unfortunately it was a bit of a busy week so comments closed on the post before I was able to share an update. Just shortly before this was published, “Jill” and I did have an interaction where we were both able to acknowledge the weirdness of suddenly working so closely together and not liking how it was affecting our friendship. That opened the door for me to follow your advice and have a more direct conversation, which we did yesterday. Some of the commenters astutely wondered if Jill and I have the same boss–which we do not. As I mentioned, my boss and I have a great relationship. She supports me when I need it, but mostly just lets me do my job. Jill’s boss is more of a micromanager and can be difficult to please. While I was deep in my feelings about what was happening, I didn’t stop to fully consider that Jill faces additional pressure from her boss that I don’t and probably doesn’t feel like she has the same freedom that I do to say no. My boundaries remain my boundaries, but I also have a lot more empathy for her situation. We didn’t come up with any great solutions just yet as to how we will navigate our friendship while working so closely together, but like you said, just acknowledging that it’s been difficult seems to have eased some of the tension between us. We have scheduled a “no-work-talk” dinner together for next week and I’m really looking forward to it. Thank you again, and thanks to all your compassionate readers for their very thoughtful advice! 3. When should I disclose my imminent maternity leave in a job search? (#4 at the link) You (and the commenters) were absolutely on point, per usual — an offer has not materialized with the company I wrote about. I’ve stayed in regular contact with the hiring manager since January, only to hear that their hiring freeze persists to this day (it’s now the end of April). I never said anything about my pregnancy to them, and as you indicated, it’s probably for the best so that the information couldn’t have biased any decision-making on their part! In happy news, I kept applying for jobs throughout the rest of my pregnancy and the birth of my child, and I have just accepted an offer with a completely different company! After 6 months of job searching, my unemployment is finally at an end. And in the happiest news, I get to enjoy this new job with my sweet kiddo. Thank you again for your advice, and to all the commentariat for their thoughts! This community is an awesome one; kudos to you for bringing us all together (and keeping our heads on straight!). You may also like:work is ruining one of my closest friendshipscoworker keeps saying I’m too muscular, boss suggested I work on a sick day, and moreis it OK for job postings to require a "clean-cut appearance"? { 330 comments }
how should we handle remote work and extreme weather? by Alison Green on May 4, 2023 It’s the Thursday “ask the readers” question. A reader writes: I work for a small nonprofit, and most of our employees telework full-time. They live all over the state, some in urban and some in rural areas. We have been experiencing regular major extreme events (fires, floods, storms, etc.) that have substantial impacts on the team members personally and also cut them off from access to the internet (whether due to outages or safety issues). This generally impacts some staff members more than others based on their geography. Aside from the personal impacts (which can be very intense and potentially devastating, depending on the event), we also have staff unable to work for increasingly long periods. In the past, the organization would sporadically foot the bill for the time when employees were impacted, but there is no specific policy. With the increasing frequency and duration of these events due to climate change, we need a policy that balances compassion with our budget and treats all employees equitably. We are mostly grant funded and cannot charge paid leave to the grants, so floating weeks at a time for multiple employees multiple times a year is becoming increasingly difficult. That said, I don’t love exhausting PTO for events that aren’t the employee’s fault. I also think we need some objective criteria as to what constitutes a disaster (e.g. regular power outages vs wildfire evacuation), but there are so many variations of events that it’s hard to develop one. Have you seen examples policies to address these situations, or do you have any suggestions? Great question, and I have not — so let’s throw this one out to readers to weigh in on in the comment section. You may also like:do you have to be paid if your office is closed due to weather?should I use vacation time when my internet goes down?I ghosted a client and now I need to finish my work for her { 360 comments }
inviting only women and LGBTQ+ coworkers to a movie screening, manager wants a video testimonial, and more by Alison Green on May 4, 2023 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. Can I invite only women and LGBTQ+ coworkers to a private movie screening? I’m very, very excited about the upcoming release of a particular movie. I’ve been in touch with a theater about a private event on opening night and am in the process of inviting “Girls, Gays, and Theys” (women and LGBTQ+ people) only to that screening. Among my friends, I know I’m entitled to invite whomever I would like to an event I’m organizing. But, if I were to only invite certain coworkers (women and LGBTQ+ people), would this be some form of gender- or sexual orientation-based workplace discrimination (to exclude cis/straight men)? If it matters, I wouldn’t be inviting coworkers who report to me. I’d only be inviting members of other teams/departments. If you’re arranging a private social event that (1) isn’t in any way work-sponsored and (2) you’re not inviting some people you manage while leaving others out and (3) you’re not part of the organization’s senior leadership, you should be fine. All three of those caveats are really important though. That’s not to say that private social events can’t be discriminatory — look at the long history of women being excluded professionally by informal men’s social networks centered around golf and strip clubs — but context matters. You’re not perpetuating a deeply entrenched system of excluding a particular demographic. If you were, my answer would be different. That said, there could still be repercussions to this that are worth thinking through. Are there cis/straight men in your office who would like to go and will feel you’re being exclusionary (which isn’t the same as being discriminatory in this case) and will that matter in your office? That’s a different question (and a less weighty one, but still a question). Read an update to this letter. 2. Managers asking for video testimonials from former employees I wanted to get your thoughts on something that happened a couple months ago. A past manager, “Fergus,” whom I hadn’t heard from since leaving my job almost two years ago, messaged me on a weekend evening saying he had a favor to ask. He said he had an interview and that he was hoping I could make a short video (30 seconds) about his leadership style for a video he was putting together for his interview. I found it really off-putting (I was already in pajamas, it was due the next day, and while I think he was very good at his job, he was not a manager I grew much under by virtue of outgrowing my role). My question is twofold: One, this is a weird thing for a former manager to ask, right? I immediately thought, “What would Ask a Manager say about this power imbalance?” because it put me in the awkward position of having to decide if I would need him professionally in the future and if it was burning a bridge if I said no. And what if I really didn’t like his leadership style? Two, is this something interviewers are asking for? Or something that candidates think helps set them apart in presentations? (And does it? I did hear through the grapevine that Fergus got this fairly prestigious job.) This is the second time I’ve been asked for a video like this from a past manager. (I did it the first time because it was a manager who I do think helped me grow a lot, and they gave me more time to send it to them.) I’ve given references before for people I’ve overseen and that can be time consuming. But this feels a lot more onerous than giving a reference for someone because of the video component. Yeah, this is a … surprising ask. Most interviewers aren’t looking for 30-second testimonials from people the candidate managed, especially ones gathered by the candidate themselves. (As with the question about recommendation letters earlier this week, the assumption is that people won’t be fully candid if they know the candidate will see what they say … and if the employer wants references, they want to ask their own questions, not receive something the candidate has curated.) And you’re right about the power dynamics; it’s tricky to ask for this kind of favor when your need for future references gives you a strong incentive to keep him happy with you. I think you would have been fine “not seeing” the message until a few days later, at which point it would be too late. 3. How to shut down comments from a contractor who applied for my job I was recently hired for a fairly competitive position. Jane, who had regularly worked as a contractor with the organization, was a finalist for the job. When I was hired, she expressed support for me and (fairly aggressively) communicated that she wished to continue working on projects as a contractor, as she has done previously. Because of that, and to honor her past working history with the company and her very good work, I went ahead and hired her for a project that will be finished next year. She is doing great work, but something she does is making it increasingly difficult for me to work with her: she keeps making weirdly passive-aggressive comments about the position, how she was the previous person’s “first pick for the job,” and “see, this is why you got this position instead of me” and “I could never do this, it really worked out for the best.” It is really starting to get on my nerves, though for now I haven’t said anything about it and not responded to the comments. She also continues to push her other projects, sending me fully formed plans that she hopes I may be able to make happen in the future and which she would lead. She is already taking a lead role in the current project, and while I moved ahead with this because of the reasons previously mentioned, I’m now regretting it because it’s getting so uncomfortable. I want to honor Jane’s work history with the company, but the whole dynamic feels so weird that I honestly don’t want to work with her again after this project. However, I also want to be fair to her. So I guess my question is how, in the short term, to shut down these weird comments and have a good relationship with her until this project is done, and whether in the long term I need to sever ties or find a better way to keep her involved, based on the high quality of her work and history with the company. I know you’re probably concerned about making things more awkward, but by letting Jane’s comments go without any response, you’re letting her believe there’s nothing awkward about her repeatedly saying those things — and keeping her from knowing that she’s risking future work too. You might get better results if you instead respond in a way that makes it clearer that her comments are landing strangely. The next time she mentions how she was someone’s first pick for the role, try saying, “You’ve made a lot of comments like that and it puts me in an awkward position. Are you comfortable continuing this work with me running the X program?” (With her less aggressive comments, like “it worked out for the best,” you might try a dry, “So you’ve mentioned.”) It’s possible that by conveying a bit more of a reaction, you might jog her into realizing she’s not just venting into the wind … but is actively creating a weird dynamic with the person in charge of her work. If that doesn’t solve it, it could make sense to pose the question more bluntly: “You’ve made a lot of comments about me getting this job, and I’m not sure how to take them. Does it make sense for me to continue bringing you on for projects after this one is over?” As for whether you can just sever ties after this if this doesn’t get better, it likely depends on internal politics in your organization and how much people with influence there would care. But I also suspect she’ll stop doing it if you make it clear she’s jeopardizing future work. 4. Should I say anything to my boss about how much sick leave I’ve been using? For just over a year, I’ve worked at a job I love. I moved to a new state for this job, and since the move I seem to get sick MUCH more frequently than I ever did before. Despite working almost entirely remotely, distancing in public, and getting all vaccines and boosters on time, I managed to contract Covid a few months into the job and spent 10 days too exhausted to do anything but sleep and eat. Now, even with similar precautions, I’ve been catching every bug going around this winter. It’s at the point where I have to call in sick for one to two days about every four weeks, and I’m starting to feel extremely guilty about it. We have combined sick/vacation time. I ran out of PTO days when I had Covid last year and had to use some unpaid time, but have since accrued enough PTO that my subsequent sick days have all been paid. My boss has never expressed doubt about any illnesses, but I’m worried that she’ll privately assume I’m abusing sick time. My annual review is in a few days and I’m worried this will count against me as well. I have a doctor’s appointment this month and plan to ask about possible causes for my suddenly lackluster immune response, but is there anything I can do to stop feeling guilty at work? Should I let my boss know I’m aware of the issue and working on fixing it? If I’m overreacting, is there anything I can do to convince my brain to shut up with the guilt trip? So in theory, if you’re sick you’re sick and if you’ve got enough sick days to cover it, you should be fine. In reality, though … if it’s frequent, sometimes it does raise questions from a manager (especially because frequent sick days can be more disruptive than a similar amount of vacation time just by the nature of being unplanned). If you’re worried about that, it can help to name that you see the pattern — because that signals that you’re not being cavalier about it (especially because people who are abusing sick time generally don’t raise it as a concern). That doesn’t mean that you should apologize for being sick or using benefits that are part of your compensation package — you shouldn’t — but it could be helpful to say something like, “I wanted to mention that it’s not the norm for me to be getting sick as much as I have since moving here, and I have an appointment with my doctor to see if there’s anything going on that could be causing it.” But also, different people use different amounts of sick time. A good boss will care more about whether you’re doing a good job and are conscientious in your approach to work. As long as you are, you should be fine. 5. Hiring manager claimed to have emailed me when she hadn’t I recently applied for a full-time position. A friend of mine who works for the company, Jon, referred me to the hiring manager, Jane, who is his coworker. A few weeks after I’d applied, Jon reached out asking if I’d heard from Jane — she’d apparently told him she’d emailed me to set up an interview. I checked my inbox very thoroughly, dug through my spam, I had no email from Jane. I told Jon this, and he said not to worry, Jane was very disorganized and had probably forgotten but he’d tell her to email me again. Another few weeks went by and I got another call from Jon, asking again if I’d heard from Jane. Jane had apparently told him that she’d emailed me a second time. Again, I dug through spam, I had nothing. Jon again said not to worry, repeated that Jane was very busy and had probably mixed me up with someone else, and said he’d check in with her again. At this point I took matters into my own hands and emailed Jane myself, saying I’d heard from Jon that she’d been trying to contact me but that for some reason I hadn’t been receiving her emails. Jane responded immediately (within 10 seconds) with a generic response to set up an interview (“Thank you for your application to X. Please select an interview time here.” etc). No mention of previous email attempts. Am I justified in feeling a bit put off by this? While I can’t know for certain that there wasn’t something odd going on with my email, it really seems to me like Jane was claiming to have emailed me for weeks when she hadn’t. What if her colleagues overheard that I’d been ignoring her emails for weeks and that impacted my ability to get jobs with them in the future? It’s really soured me on the job, but I’m wondering if that’s unfair. I don’t think it’s particularly unfair — although I’m basing that less to Jane’s reply to you and more on what you’ve heard from Jon. If Jane is as disorganized as Jon says and as you seem to be seeing firsthand, it’s fair to assume working with her would be a frustrating experience. I’m not really concerned about Jane’s colleagues hearing that you’d been ignoring her emails; candidates aren’t obligated to engage in any company’s hiring process and there are a lot of reasons a candidate might be unreachable — and it’s just not the kind of info that tends to stick with people who overhear a mention of it. But I’m definitely concerned about what Jane’s level of disorganization would mean for you as her employee. You may also like:how can I tell our freelancers they should charge more?a VP wants me to out myself at work and won't take no for an answergrown women are not "girl bosses" { 188 comments }
is it unprofessional to take a Zoom call from a treadmill? by Alison Green on May 3, 2023 A reader writes: I’ve noticed an increasing number of employees (from individual contributors to managers or even directors) getting their steps in on a treadmill during Zoom calls. Video is on and they’re bouncing around, even wiping their brows. What is your take? It feels so unprofessional to me. It is quite distracting, and almost insulting for a junior team member to be walking and talking to a senior level VP. Yeah, it really reads as “My main priority right now is the gym, but I suppose I’ll make room to take this call.” Which isn’t necessarily unreasonable if, for example, it’s your day off but your expertise is urgently needed so you agreed to join a call with the understanding that you’d be on your treadmill when it happened. But assuming that’s not the case and it’s during your regular work hours, it’s out of sync with what’s normally expected of people on work calls. Part of it is the “you’re interrupting my workout vibe” but part of it is also that, as you pointed out, it’s distracting to other people on the call. That’s the case whether the person doing it is junior or senior, although it’s certainly true that senior people have more room to push the boundaries on stuff like this. However … different offices have different norms. If you’re noticing it happening a lot in your office, then it sounds like this might be considered perfectly acceptable there. If that’s the case, then “unprofessional” wouldn’t apply, as long as the people doing it are still engaged in the conversation and not panting into the phone and yelling “feel the burn!” and so forth. It’s not a norm in most offices though — although interestingly, I would not be surprised to see that change over time. In most offices, though, it hasn’t changed yet. You may also like:my employee doesn't wear a bra on Zoom meetings -- should I say anything?what's the etiquette for people in the background on Zoom calls?I saw a coworker's husband naked on Zoom - should I say anything? { 218 comments }
my employee cries when she’s frustrated by Alison Green on May 3, 2023 A reader writes: I have an employee whose response when frustrated by a problem is to cry. It started to happen last summer when we were working through her visa renewal process. It was extremely stressful for her so I tried to support her as much as I could. It was uncomfortable for me, because it was a lot of crying sessions, but luckily that problem has been happily resolved. But recently she has been crying about a job-related issue. It was a new type of work for her, but one that majority of the department has done and, given that she’s 15 years in the profession, it was a disproportionate reaction to the problem. I talked with her about the source of the problem and have tried to clarify work processes and work with some other project members to manage expectation and deliverables. What concerns me is that between the visa issue and this project issue, it’s been almost a year of crying. I think I am have created a pattern of “cry and Jane will fix it” and I have to manage a project that isn’t mine to begin with. I am not sure how to address this. Saying “you cry a lot and it’s uncomfortable or unprofessional” doesn’t seem compassionate, but at the same time I am starting to dread when she comes to my office door. I answer this question — and three others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here. Other questions I’m answering there today include: Employee wants to skip lunch and leave early every day What to say if a colleague asks about my self-harm scars I’m being demoted after resigning You may also like:a new manager says it's a problem that our employee cries in meetings, at her desk, and during team lunchesemployee cries whenever she gets a new assignment, team went to dinner without me, and moremy employee gets stressed and frustrated and snaps at me { 199 comments }
I was rejected after a seven-minute interview by Alison Green on May 3, 2023 A reader writes: I recently applied to a job for which I was well-qualified. The role was with a start-up that’s hoping to shift into doing the type of work I do. My current employer is very well respected in the field, so this start-up likely has a lot to learn from someone in a role similar to my current one. I applied and two days later got an email from the CEO inviting me to a 15-minute meeting with her. I eagerly selected the first available time slot, and we met later that week. For the first half of the 15 minutes, she told me about the company and the new direction they’re exploring (my area of expertise). For the second half of the 15 minutes, she asked me general questions about what interested me in the role and what challenges I foresee. Since my current role is quite similar to the one I was interviewing for, I had very tangible examples to share. I was intentional about giving precise answers linking examples of my past/current work to what I understood her company’s goals to be. My partner overheard the interview since we both work remotely and congratulated me on sounding friendly, knowledgeable, and well-spoken. My partner said it was clear the CEO and I were “speaking the same language,” i.e. the questions I asked sounded thoughtful and the examples I shared matched the description of the role that the CEO provided. Less than two hours later, I got a rejection email. I was peeved! I felt like this CEO hardly tried to get to know me; I only spoke about my experience and asked questions for seven minutes. I would have happily submitted a work sample and had a longer conversation with her and the broader team, had I been invited. I know that I’ll never know what exactly happened, but do you have any insight about why workplaces do this? I absolutely understand that I won’t get every job I interview for, but I can’t understand how I could’ve mucked things up in such a short amount of time. Aren’t these very short interviews supposed to just be a chance to ensure the applicant clears the bar of being worth getting to know better? There are five zillion reasons why this could have happened. With the caveat that it’s possible that none of these applied to you, some examples of why a candidate might be rejected after only seven minutes of discussion: * Talking to you made the manager realize that they’re not ready to hire for the role yet, or they need to clarify its requirements, or there’s someone already onboard who would be able to tackle lots of it. * They already had a candidate they were leaning strongly toward, or even had already decided to hire, but this conversation was on the books so they went through with it rather than canceling at the last minute. * There was a disconnect on what they’re looking for — for example, you saw the role as higher-level than the one they’re envisioning, and it’s clear that you’re too senior for the level they’re planning to hire at. * Something about your conversational style landed wrong with the interviewer: you sounded sluggish/uninterested/disengaged, or overly frenetic, or you interrupted them, or something else about your style just happened to rub the interviewer the wrong way. (And it’s important to note that some people will interpret others in X way even when another observer wouldn’t get the same impression. It’s possible that your partner — who knows you — could have a different interpretation than the interviewer did.) * You just aren’t what they’re looking for. You did a great job at speaking to X, but they really care about Y. Or they want someone with more X (whether that’s realistic or not), or they didn’t accurately convey what they’re looking for and they don’t really want X at all. * They respond more to flash than substance, and you’re more substance. Or the opposite, for that matter! * Your interviewer has a bias against people who went to X college, speak with a Y accent, are over (or under) Z years old, or a million other possible biases. * They’re about to make an offer to someone else but wanted to do a quick call with you just in case you were so overwhelmingly fantastic that they’d want to pause their offer process with the other person. * They were excited about your candidacy when they first set the call up but something has changed since then (other candidates emerged, the role is being reconfigured, they’re hiring someone’s brother, who knows what) and the interview changed from “genuine” to “obligatory” without anyone telling you that. * They just got bad financial news and they’re not moving forward with hiring at all. * Your interviewer sucks at interviewing. Or worse, sucks at managing and prefers to hire people who don’t sound confident and knowledgeable because this company likes employees it can more easily mold to its dysfunctional culture. * Your interviewer was tired or distracted or sick and was more focused on getting through the conversation so she could go home and take some aspirin than on assessing your qualifications. It happens. * You were a solid candidate who they might have moved forward under other circumstances, but they’ve got candidates they’re more excited about. * They already had an offer out to someone and that person accepted the same day as your call so now they’re rejecting everyone still in their process. I think your mistake is in thinking that a rejection after such a short conversation means you messed something up. It’s certainly possible that you did — but it’s just as possible that it was something from the list above. Candidates have a tendency to assume that the pieces of the hiring process they see tell them everything they need to know. But you’re really only seeing a tiny piece of it and there’s so much that could be going on behind the scenes that has nothing to do with how well you interviewed. You may also like:my coworker pressures me to take his shifts at the last minute ... because he knows I can't afford to say noHR is giving me bad vibes, but I like the hiring managerthoughts on rejection from a hiring manager in a competitive field { 267 comments }
an acquaintance is lying about his credentials, I’m afraid my coworkers will out me to my mom, and more by Alison Green on May 3, 2023 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. An acquaintance is lying about his credentials I recently found out that someone I know lied about his credentials when he applied for his job. He was let go when his boss learned of his deception, but I’ve since learned that he lied to his previous employers as well, and he’s continuing to represent that he has a graduate degree in the philosophy of physics from an Ivy League university on social media and to friends and acquaintances, when he never attended graduate school, has no affiliation with that university, and has no background in either science or philosophy. He doesn’t hold a role that requires any sort of license, but he last worked in a high-level position in medical research at a military medical center (and in the past at universities and other medical centers), and it worries me that he’ll just end up getting another job in the same field, and he might end up harming someone (if that has not happened already). I know it’s really common for people to lie on their resumes, but this seems like a public health risk. I have relatives and friends who have participated in clinical research studies, and they felt safe doing so; it scares me that these trials could have been overseen by someone who had no relevant scientific or ethical background. I’m really uncomfortable with the burden of this knowledge, and I’m not in a position to make him stop lying about this. There’s no governing agency or professional organization that oversees this. What should I do? I see why you’re concerned, but this isn’t something you have a practical way to do anything about. Employers should be verifying employees’ backgrounds, particularly in positions where credentials truly matter. But if they’re neglecting that, there’s no way for you to step in and do it for them. In theory you could track your contact’s professional moves and contact each new employer to suggest they confirm his qualifications — but lying about having a degree in the philosophy of physics doesn’t really rise to that level of warranting that (as opposed to if he were, say, using his jobs to abuse kids). I think you’ve got to let this go and leave it to the people whose job it is to deal with it. 2. I’m afraid my coworkers will out me to my mother I am genderqueer and work for an organization with multiple branches in my county. We are allowed (and generally encouraged) to put our personal pronouns in our email signatures, and several of the public-facing employees of our organization (particularly at my branch) wear pronoun pins. All pretty straightforward so far, but here’s where it gets tricky. I live in the same general area as my parents, who I am not out to because they are very conservative and quite frankly, I don’t want to have that fight (besides, I’m a grown-ass adult and they’re not entitled to that level of information about me). My mother is pretty heavily involved with a support group for one of the other branches of my organization and is close personal friends with several of the staff members there. I’m afraid that if I change the pronouns in my email signature, one of the staff members at the other branch will notice and ask my mother about it, thus inadvertently outing me to my parents. I don’t trust the other staff members to not say anything if I ask them; in fact, I’m concerned that doing so might cause one of them to feel like she has to tell my mother. I’m already wearing a pronoun pin with the pronouns my parents would expect, so I want to at least be honest about myself in one place and feel like having it wrong in my email address too would be some sort of loss on my part. Is it possible I could just go for it anyway and hope the staff at the other branch won’t notice or care enough? Ugh, this can probably only be answered by someone who knows the staff at the other branch — but you do, and it sounds like you think there’s a pretty good chance they’ll mention it to your mom. So unfortunately you’ve got to weigh your comfort with whatever might result from that against your (entirely understandable and normal) desire to use your correct pronouns at work. That sucks, and I’m sorry it’s the case. Read an update to this letter. 3. How long should I stick around for a “promised” promotion? I’ve been with my current organization for over a decade. I’m in the same department I was hired into, but I’ve had a few promotions over the years. I’m generally well-liked in the organization, I believe in the work, and the benefits/side perks are good. The workload is manageable, and other than some mild internal dysfunctions, I’m quite happy working there. In the past year or so, my boss (director level) mentioned that he’s grooming me to take his place when he retires “in a year or two,” which is great! The directors at my organization start at around 30% more than I currently make, and it’d be a great step in my professional career. The problem? My director’s been saying he’s going to retire “in the next year or two” for at least five years. I can picture him working there until he physically can’t anymore. I don’t want to leave, per se, but I also don’t want to put myself in a position where I’m stagnant for several years, then he retires, then the organization decides they need to hire someone from outside for the position. (I’ve been in the “you’re so great in your current role that we can’t possibly lose you there” position before, and it’s not fun.) I’m qualified enough to apply for director positions now; I’d find the role challenging, sure, but I’m up to the task. What’s the best way forward? Since you know that you can’t put any real weight on your director’s statements that he’ll retire in a year or two, proceed the way you would if he weren’t saying it at all. Would you still happily stay? Or would you be looking around? If you’d be looking around … you should start looking around. You could certainly try talking to him about it, explaining that you want to make sure you’re planning realistically for yourself. Who knows, maybe he’ll tell you something about his timeline that sounds credible even seen through the lens of the history so far (that part is key). But absent something like that — something that you find convincing despite knowing that he’s been “preparing to leave” for years — proceed the same way you would if he had announced he plans to stay forever. 4. Can I tell a new employer I’m going to Burning Man? I am a mid-career engineer in the Bay Area who for various reasons is looking for a new job. I’m getting to the stage where I’m hoping for job offer(s) in the next few weeks, and I have a bit of a conundrum. In the last few years I’ve been going to Burning Man (and volunteering there) for a week and a half at the end of August to early September. This was not a problem at my current job, which is pretty laid back and where I’m a known quantity, but I’m slightly concerned about negotiating that with a new employer. All the jobs I’m looking at have the famous “unlimited” PTO, and not going at all would be a huge deal for me. Probably a deal-breaker. Further complicating matters is I’ve just received an exciting offer to do a paid version of the volunteer work I usually do. However, this would involve a three-week commitment in the desert instead of a week and a half, which feels like a much bigger deal to negotiate. I’m also concerned because a lot of people think of Burning Man as a place where tech bros go to do drugs in the desert (not *completely* false), and that’s not the kind of first impression I want to make. On the other hand, this is tech in the Bay Area, so it may just be fine. Do you think I can negotiate the three weeks if I offer to take some of it unpaid? Or should I turn that down for this year and just ask for the week and a half on PTO? What do you think is the right approach here? Treat this like any other pre-planned vacation — you don’t need to specify what you’ll be doing with the time. When you’re negotiating the offer, just say, “I have a pre-planned vacation for (dates). I’d be happy to use unpaid time off for part of that if it would make it more possible.” If they sound reluctant to approve so much time so soon after you start, at that point you could offer to shorten it if you’re willing to — but I’d start off by asking for what you want and see what they say. Definitely do this before you officially accept the offer though; it’s a lot easier to get things approved as part of the offer negotiations than it will be after you’ve started. 5. A thank-you note for a coworker who’s leaving I started my new job just before the beginning of the year, and have been working closely with someone who just announced he’s leaving in a couple weeks. He’s mentored me a bit since I started. Would it be weird to write him a thank-you note, along the lines of an end of internship thank-you note? This is my first job since graduating and I’ve always written thank you cards at my internships, when I was the one leaving, but this feels a little different so I’d be grateful for any insights you have! Not weird at all! It would be a lovely thing to do. You may also like:I lied to my interviewer about being employedmy boss excessively Photoshops herself on our company's social mediaI think my coworker is lying about having a sick kid { 432 comments }