Ask a Manager

update: my manager says my shyness is seen as rudeness

by Alison Green on November 28, 2022

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and for the rest of the year I’ll be running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose manager said her shyness was seen as rudeness? Here’s the update.

First of all, when I wrote in originally I was still upset from the email my boss sent me (I think that is clear haha).

Second, I actually really like my boss. Maybe more as a person than a boss. But she was a really great mentor and help to me while I was trying to complete a project that I was given where I was in wayyyy over my head and had no idea where to start. We had had many really good and personal conversations, so when she sent me a chiding email telling me that I was acting uncourteous and unprofessional rather than taking me into her office and saying “Hey here is something I noticed…” I was surprised and upset. Especially since what I did wasn’t new behavior and it had never been a problem before. We also had another strange conversation earlier where she acted like I wasn’t a reliable employee because I wanted to use the accommodation she had previously approved for a disability I have. So it was just another instance where I realized that my boss wasn’t as trustworthy as I had once thought and it unsettled me. Also made me realize that on top of some other dysfunctional things (could be a whole other letter), maybe this wasn’t the best environment for me.

Like I mentioned in the comments, after calming down about the email I did talk to my boss in person about it and she assured me that no one else had complained it was only her perception. She also told me she wanted me to interrupt her no matter who she was talking to if I ever had anything to say to her and especially to say good bye. So I took her on her word and did that. I also did take her advice to try to be more open and less shy and reserved. I did my best to say good morning to everyone every morning. I always said something when I left to run errands (which I did a lot as part of my job). I also made it a point to talk more, especially to my boss. I was a little over the top with my boss but she appreciated it and told me as much. It was as much a lesson to do what your boss wants you to do as a lesson to be less reserved. And honestly, overall, I am grateful for learning that. Sometimes you just have to do what the boss wants.

I mentioned in the comments that the email I received made me ramp up my job search. I was really starting to feel like it was time to move on for several reasons. The good news is that I got a new job! Already I am happier and I also feel like I really fit in. Even my family members noticed and commented on how much happier I seem and it’s only been a little over a month. I have made an effort to be a little less reserved (but still my quiet self often) than before and my relationships with my coworkers and new boss are going really well. I am still learning of course but so far I really enjoy the work! The company is great and something I believe in and am pretty passionate about. I also now have way more vacation time and a 14% raise. Benefits are better and cheaper. I was a team of one at my last job and now I have a team which I LOVE. Much better environment and I am so grateful how it all turned out.

My new boss is great and isn’t mismatch like before. I don’t feel like I have to perform being more outgoing to make her happy. And that is such a relief. I can be completely myself (well, my work self) and she (and my other coworkers) seem to appreciate me.

I also wanted to say thank you so much for the advice. It made me feel a lot better in a moment of weakness and helped me re-examine myself as well to see if maybe my boss had a point. I am also grateful for the many commenters who validated my thoughts that the email was not the right way to communicate the issue with me. And thank you to the commenters who commiserated with my shyness and introversion.

Really Alison, thank you! I reread your advice before sending this and it made me feel better all over again.

update: my employee is freezing out a manager after he joked about King Charles

by Alison Green on November 28, 2022

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and for the rest of the year I’ll be running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose employee was freezing out a manager after he joked about King Charles (#2 at the link)? Here’s the update.

Thanks so much for publishing my letter! I read the comments but didn’t participate. I know more about the British monarchy than I ever thought I would, so that is a plus!

I took your advice and talked to Kate directly. She said the King Charles comment was “the straw that broke the camel’s back” and she has a “personality conflict” with William. Right now, the two admin work for our department equally. Kate requested we structure this so each admin reports to 3 managers and she is not assigned to William.

I told her I would take this under consideration and asked everybody else what they thought. The other managers were negative to neutral about this idea. William pulled me aside later that day and said that he does indeed had a personality conflict with Kate but he didn’t think it would get this bad. William’s perspective is that Kate “mothers” him in a way that makes him uncomfortable. Some examples he gave were things like asking him where his jacket was when it’s cold out or telling him to drive safe when he’s going off site. William noted that she does not make these comments generally, just to him, and it feels awkward and infantilizing. He responded to them by either ignoring her or changing the subject, but always felt he was appropriate when they communicated about their actual job.

After more consideration and some input from other managers about what they don’t like about assigning admin, I spoke to Kate directly again and said we are unable to assign administrative assistants to specific managers and she will need to find a way to work with William. Kate said she will work with William as long as he is “respectful.” I told Kate to focus on just work with William and to avoid personal conversation because clearly they do not mesh well.

Really hoping I do not have another update for you because everybody smoothes this out!

the schedule for updates this year

by Alison Green on November 28, 2022

A heads-up about update season: for the next few weeks I’ll be posting at midnight, 11 am, 12:30 pm, 2 pm, 3:30 pm, and 5 pm (all times are Eastern)* … as a minimum. There will sometimes be additional posts at random times throughout the afternoon as well!

We have a lot of updates.

Also, if you’ve had your letter answered here in the past and would like to send in an update, there’s still time to include it so go ahead and email it to me!

Update: Well, that schedule has already been blown to hell because I’ve been adding in extra posts. It looks like some days it’s ending up as midnight, 11 am, 12:30 pm, 1:30 pm, 2:30 pm, 3:30 pm, and 5 pm (all Eastern). The main message, I think, is to expect posts all day through at least 5 pm.

* That’s Monday through Thursday. Friday will be unpredictable.

how to tell an assistant, “just fix the problem!”

by Alison Green on November 28, 2022

A reader writes:

Soon after I started, I hired a new assistant, Amy. She’s been here a few months. It’s going okay but I’m trying to figure out which of the following things are worth trying to fix with her, and which are just personal quirks and to let it go. She excels in other areas of the job.

1) Amy constantly tells you the process she is taking to fix a problem, instead of just fixing it. Example: I tell Amy to find out the status of X document. Amy calls Bob, who isn’t there. Amy reports back that Bob isn’t there and asks if she should keep calling around (yes). Amy calls Sue, who isn’t there, and again asks if she should keep calling around (yes). This happened yesterday literally five times while Amy called various people until she got someone. This is a daily issue.

2) She schedules a lot of meetings for me, and she said in the interview that she had experience with that. Well, she seems to get constantly stressed about it. I’d like to decrease her stress about this, but it is also a primary function of the job.

3) Frequently she has questions about the job or a policy that I don’t know about (and honestly don’t need to know about — for example, I don’t know how we order toner). When these things come up, I will say “I don’t know, ask Dave or Sue.” But she will continue to discuss what the problem is, even after I say this. I’ve started reiterating, “Again, I don’t know, ask Dave or Sue” and then walking into my office to keep working.

Since Amy started, I’m spending probably 45-60 minutes a day on these items. Suggestions? Since she is new, I’d like to start off on the right foot and she is doing great in most areas.

I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

update: I started a business with two coworkers and I’m doing all the work

by Alison Green on November 28, 2022

It’s the launch of “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager! Every day from now until the end of the year, I’ll be running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

We have so many updates this year that I’m going to be posting six to seven times a day for the next several weeks — so keep checking back throughout the entire day.

To kick us off…

Remember the letter-writer had started a business with two coworkers but was doing all the work herself? Here’s the update.

I have a good update to this letter!

I wrote in asking for a script on how to wrest control from my business partners, but you will probably remember me more for having a business without a bank account. Allison’s advice, and most of the commentariat, said to reconsider whether I wanted to be in business with these guys. One commenter asked me if I even was cut out to be a business owner. That hurt a little to read, but it really prompted a deep self-reflection where I realized that yes, I do want to run this business and I’m invested in it. (I also had a lot of people wondering WTF my job was. While I’m still not comfortable saying it because it’s very specific, I promise we were not screwing over any vendors or customers. The service we provide is subscription-based and people still received the service.)

So, right after my letter was posted I took action. I had this mindset of “we’re a small business, we have to do everything ourselves” but that isn’t always true. Clearly we’re not good at money so we need help with it! I set up a meeting with a bookkeeper to get us sorted out. I basically told her, “Look, here’s where we’re at, and if you don’t want to work with us, that’s okay.” She fortunately did want to work with us and has been so helpful! I pushed my cofounders to set a date to set up a bank account, and I’m so glad to report we do have a bank account now. I also had a budgeting session with our bookkeeper because frankly I had no idea what our financial situation looked like, and she reassured me that we are doing fine and while we’re on a tight budget, we are not on a shoestring, which was great to hear! I’ve since set up meetings with people who can help improve our business since our bookkeeper projected we could afford it, so that’s been exciting. I also let the guys know that I’m basically taking the lead on one of the projects, for which they expressed appreciation.

Recently, though, the tipping point was when James called me livid about Sam’s performance at one of the elements of our job. Essentially, Sam keeps taking on more tasks than he can realistically handle and refusing multiple offers for us to take over and help. This time, he let something slip that we’d paid a consultant to help us with, which felt like a gigantic waste of money. James raised all the same concerns of Sam’s performance that I’d been struggling with internally, and I could not believe that it wasn’t just me feeling this way! And I was really inspired by seeing James begin to take it more seriously than it seemed he had been all along. We had a come-to-Jesus meeting with Sam where we told him we would need to take the task away from him. He emphasized how much he wanted to do that specific task, so we took another job function away from him instead, one that he enjoyed less but felt compelled to do because he doesn’t want to disappoint us. We realized that Sam wants to feel important and not let anyone down, so we reminded him that it lets us down more for things not to get done. I felt that I was being kind of harsh with Sam: he’s obviously sensitive about his output and his perceived shortcomings compared to James and I, and as a result he takes on WAY more work than he can handle–and then doesn’t handle it. So we basically told him to stop doing that. It’s working out well so far: last week he delegated something to me! I think getting our act together really helped us get excited about this project again, and I’ve realized that I was being a little arrogant about the amount of work I do: we all do a lot of work and it does take each of us to make this happen.

Thanks to everyone who gave me the wake-up call I needed. Ultimately I really believe in the product we’re bringing and I want to be doing this. I hope this is a satisfying update! If I can give some advice to other entrepreneurs: don’t feel the need to do every single thing yourself, delegate when you can, communicate honestly and often with your business partners, and open the damn bank account before anything else.

coworker asks about my personal finances, gender differences in dress codes, and more

by Alison Green on November 28, 2022

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My coworker asks about my personal finances

I work in an education-related industry that’s not known for having particularly high salaries. I’m on the younger end of my workplace, and it’s the kind of place where I might be in the same role as someone decades older than me. That said, my spouse works in a better-paying industry, so with two incomes and no kids, we’re comfortable financially in a way some of my coworkers — even those who’ve been working longer than me — might not be.

I have one coworker who is socially difficult in a variety of ways. One of those ways is that she really likes to talk and complain about money. I’m fine with this if we’re talking about it as it relates to our specific jobs and salaries; I think it’s important to know how other people in the company are compensated. I’m not comfortable with this when it relates to our personal situations. I don’t really want to know all the specifics of her personal debts and financial woes, which she shares in our social team meetings (with 8-10 people in them). I also don’t want to answer the questions she asks in these same meetings, which include “how much did you pay for your house,” “how much did you put down on your house,” and, in response to so many casual comments, from getting my dog spayed to plumbing repairs, “how much did that cost?” I mostly sidestep, don’t give amounts, or — in situations where I feasibly can — ignore these comments.

She’s also above me in the hierarchy and kind of bad at reading social cues, so saying things like, “Oh, I don’t really like to talk about that kind of thing at work” doesn’t do anything more than stop a specific question. She’s right back at it the next meeting.

Because she’s above you in the hierarchy, you probably can’t make her stop sharing her own financial information— especially when she’s sharing with a group, not just you — but you can and should enforce boundaries on what you’re willing (and not willing) to share. If she asks you what you paid for something, it’s fine to say, “I’m private about money” or “that seems really personal to me” or “I’d rather not talk about my personal finances at work” or so forth.

2. Gender differences in dress codes

Many years ago I was in a business networking group focusing on people under 30. One of my fellow members was asked to develop a dress code to add formality in his business. I don’t remember the details, but it was a small, customer-facing financial firm of some sort.

His proposed men’s dress code amounted to, “Business professional: jackets and ties. Consult your manager if you have questions.” But for women he had about five pages of detail. Almost everything had both a minimum and a maximum — heels at least this high but no higher than that, skirts at least this long but no longer than that, etc. There was no option for zero jewelry or zero makeup.

Those of us in the club argued with him, of course, but his response was, “There’s a standard for ‘business professional’ for men, and men have a shared understanding of what it is. There are a lot more options for women, and when I talk to women, they give me different definitions of what ‘business professional’ means, so I’m just trying to provide guidance.”

So: if you were in that conversation, what would you be telling him to do, and how would you be supporting your argument?

With the law! For example: “It’s only legal to have different dress codes for men and women as long as they don’t create more of a burden on one sex than the other. Your proposed dress code is significantly more of a burden on women and thus is discriminatory. It’s both ethically wrong and would open you up to legal liability.”

Also, women can be fully professional without makeup or jewelry and while wearing flat shoes, so something’s going on with him that has nothing to do with business standards.

3. Husband’s relationship with a female coworker

My husband seems to find a female coworker very ambitious and great friend material.
When she asked if he would bring his wife to the Christmas party where all partners are invited, he just responded “I’ll let you know if she comes along” when we had decided that I would come to the party and I still am going to the party. He seems to like the mind game of keeping her unanswered. Is this a red flag or is there a possibility of this developing into something else?

Yes, it is a red flag that your husband is downplaying your attendance and possibly your role/your relationship when talking with this coworker. For some reason, he’s choosing not to signal that your relationship is a solid one where you show up as his partner to social events.

To be clear, this does not mean that people who don’t attend their partners’ holiday parties don’t have solid relationships. But when he knows you are indeed attending, his desire to diminish that demonstration of couplehood is suspect.

4. Telling a candidate we went with someone we liked better

I recently conducted interviews for a role on my team. All five candidates were fantastic. Their qualifications were comparable and I could see them all doing well in the role.

I extended the offer to one candidate who I and the rest of the hiring panel clicked with really well. He was kind, friendly, and polite. It’s not that the other candidates didn’t exhibit these qualities — they did! — but this particular individual gave off … I don’t know, the best vibe? Of all five candidates, I liked this one’s personality the most. I feel like a bastard saying that since I know you can’t gauge someone’s true personality from an interviewer alone, but with equal time spent with each candidate, this is all I have to go off of.

One candidate asked for feedback after we informed them that the offer was extended to someone else. I explained that although they would be great in the role, the offer was extended to someone with slightly more experience. It’s not that this wasn’t true, because it was, but it’s not the reason this person wasn’t selected. I just didn’t know what else to say!

How do you explain to a rejected candidate that someone else got the job because basically you just liked them better, without actually saying that?

You don’t need to say you liked the other person better; instead, explain that you had multiple highly qualified finalists and only one slot. For example: “We had several exceptionally qualified finalists, including you, and the decision was a tough one. We could only hire one person for this role, but I have no doubt that you would have been an asset on our team and would welcome applications from you in the future.”

5. Jobs that want reference letters before you’ve even been interviewed

I just applied for a job in higher ed (STEM support role), which warned me my references would be contacted immediately after I submitted the application. Apparently my references got an automated email requesting a whole letter of reference. This is obnoxious, right? Please tell me this is just a higher ed quirk and other sectors aren’t doing this!

Yep, it’s obnoxious. It’s also terribly inconsiderate to the references, who are being asked to spend time writing letters (a much bigger time commitment than a phone call) for people who haven’t even been through an initial screening yet and who might not even get an interview. It’s rude.

It’s also mostly an academia thing. Not entirely — you occasionally encounter it somewhere else — but mostly. (Most fields don’t do reference letters at all. Academia and law tend to be the main places that do, while most other fields generally use phone calls and only at the finalist stage. Some places use electronic survey forms, which are problematic on multiple fronts, but even then they’re at least not generally sent out until you’re further along in the process.)

weekend open thread – November 26-27, 2022

by Alison Green on November 25, 2022

This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand.

Here are the rules for the weekend posts.

Book recommendation of the week: My First Popsicle: An Anthology of Food and Feelings, edited by Zosia Mamet. Various people writing about food, including Danny Lavery on the food literary children take when running away, Jia Tolentino on acid chicken, Tony Hale (Gary from Veep!) on his love of chain restaurants, and more.

* I make a commission if you use that Amazon link.

open thread – November 25-26, 2022

by Alison Green on November 25, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

Thanksgiving free-for-all – November 24, 2022

by Alison Green on November 24, 2022

This comment section is open for any discussion you’d like to have with other readers (work or non-work or possibly even entirely dessert-focused if that’s your bag).

Happy Thanksgiving!