my coworker disrupts meetings and explodes or freezes us out if she’s angry

A reader writes:

I work on a four-person core team, and we have a standing weekly meeting that is required of every team in our organization. We are all of equal standing and all have at least a decade of experience in our field. Occasionally a supervisor will come to these meetings, but often it’s the four core, plus a specialist or two who have info to share.

One team member, Jade, is derailing these meetings. She comes late, won’t stay on topic, talks about personal issues over the actual meeting conversations, makes phone calls, orders food, checks her bank account, and then wants us to repeat ourselves and catch her up multiple times in the course of a meeting.

She is explosive when confronted, no matter how nice you are, but we can’t continue this way, so our team lead bit the bullet and had a private conversation with her. It went exactly as expected — explosive, deflection of responsibility, accusations of us talking behind her back and ganging up on her, all things she’s had other colleagues do in the past. It’s a recurring problem for her, but she’s not able to reflect and see that her behaviors are the issue and will continue to follow her. She thinks she’s “just loud,” but she’s terrifying when she gets “loud.”

Now that our team lead has let her know that we’re all frustrated, I’m expecting either a big freeze-out or a massive explosion. How do we continue to do our jobs and have these meetings with a coworker like this? I don’t even want to have a conversation with her now because I’ve seen how she treats other people and I don’t want to be her next target. Our boss is pretty powerless to fire her despite numerous complaints from clients and other coworkers about her explosiveness, and we don’t hate her, we just want her to stay on task and help us get our work done. And not yell when we ask her to stay on task.

This is a management problem more than it’s a Jade problem.

Or at least it is if they know about it. It sounds like your four-person core team functions pretty independently. Does your manager — not just your team lead but your manager — know about the issues with Jade? And not just “is broadly aware that Jade is difficult,” but is she actively aware that Jade is currently disrupting meetings and either freezing out or exploding at people?

If she’s aware of that and choosing to do nothing — or addressing it but wimpily enough that nothing changes — then this is on your boss for not doing a basic part of her job, which should include laying out very clearly for Jade that her behavior is unacceptable and needs to change and then enforcing consequences if it doesn’t.

You said your boss is powerless to fire her despite multiple complaints, and I’m curious why that is. Is Jade protected by someone above her? Or is your manager just a weak boss who won’t do the work of managing her? Even if your boss’s hands are truly tied when it comes to firing her (which often really just means “not willing to jump through the bureaucratic hoops it would take” or “not willing to make the case for firing her to someone higher up”), she should still be intervening much more actively — for example, sitting in on more of your meetings and calling Jade out when she’s derailing them, speaking to her after every unacceptable incident, etc.

If you’re dealing with a wimpy boss, sometimes you can move that kind of manager to action by making it more painful for them to do nothing — meaning that you alert them every time Jade misbehaves and ask them to handle it. Make it as much their problem as you can: “Jade blew up in today’s meeting — can you please speak with her?” … “Can you sit in on today’s meeting so it doesn’t go off the rails again?” … “Jade refuses to speak to me and I need info on X — what do you want me to do?” … etc.

You can also decide you don’t care if Jade freezes you out or explodes. I realize ignoring an explosion is easier said than done, but assuming you don’t fear actual physical violence from her, what would happen if you all just … ignored her? Or left the room?

Ideally the group of you would also call Jade out when she’s disrupting meetings — such as by telling her to go to another room if she’s going to make a phone call, cutting off her off-topic monologues and saying you need to stick to the agenda, declining to continually update her when she wasn’t paying attention, etc. I assume that’s not happening because everyone is afraid of her, but there’s power in deciding as a group that you’re not going to let her manipulate you that way and will be asserting that no, she can’t disrupt meetings anymore. If it brings this all to a head in a huge blow-out, which it might … well, that might be useful in finally getting some of this addressed.

should I address the feedback from an anonymous survey?

A reader writes:

My company did an employee survey. It really was anonymous (no names and anything that could be de-anonymizing was scrubbed from the results I can see) but my department is small enough that I have a good idea about who gave each rating, including who gave a tiny bit of negative feedback about me. I absolutely don’t want to be that manager who is like “Who did it?! You’re wrong!” but I did want to talk to that person as they were neutral on how much they felt they could disagree with me. It wasn’t even negative, just not the higher scores everyone else gave.

I’m not really sure I see any way to say “I disagree that you can’t disagree with me” because I fully understand how ridiculous that is. But I’ve always had pretty open, feedback-filled relationships with the members of my team and I just want to make sure everyone knows they really can bring things up to me and I’m always going to listen and consider. I won’t always agree, but we’ll always discuss it.

Is there a way I could bring this up? Or should I just let it go?

I answer this question — and three others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • I don’t want coworkers to call my personal cell
  • Non-reciprocal networkers
  • Start date and losing a bonus at my current job

my coworker asked out a coworker, got turned down, and now won’t stop badmouthing her

A reader writes:

I have a group of coworkers who I am rather friendly with. About a year ago, one of the members of this group (Josh) developed a crush on another employee who is not part of our social circle (Tiffany). Eventually he asked her out, but she declined. Josh was outwardly calm and appeared to take it well and have no hard feelings.

For a while, it seemed that the situation was done and over with. However, in recent months Josh has started showing a frighteningly hostile attitude towards Tiffany. He has never confronted her directly, but frequently vents his negative feelings about her towards other people. On multiple occasions, he claimed that she intentionally withheld work-related information from him. This arguably has happened once or twice, as opposed to the five or six times he alleged, and seemed to be a genuine mistake. Due to the nature of our work, sometimes it can be unclear which parts of the project should involve which people.

After learning that her salary was higher than his, he made dozens of bitter remarks about how unfair this is. He insisted that the quality of her work is overrated, and that “being pretty” and “hitting on the CEO” were the reasons why. It is true that Tiffany is a conventionally attractive woman and is one of the more extroverted and gregarious people in the office. But it’s a stretch to say that she is being flirtatious. One of Josh’s more outlandish accusations was that Tiffany is a “liar and hypocrite” because she offhandedly mentioned in breakroom chitchat that she believes in DEI initiatives but the following week he saw her eating Chick-Fil-A for lunch.

This is making me very uncomfortable. Josh used to be really nice and easygoing, but has become so belligerent. Even people who aren’t aware of the history (and even some people who aren’t particularly fond of Tiffany themselves) have noticed that he is unhappy with just about every single thing that she does, and that he is constantly looking for reasons to malign her. Josh always doubles down and insists that his recent behavior has nothing to do with her rejecting his advances, and that he is completely over that crush.

I don’t think I have sufficient grounds to escalate this to our manager, since I am not the target of this negativity. Furthermore, Josh has not actually done or said anything to Tiffany and is merely complaining about her. However, many of us are feeling like we have to walk on eggshells around him, and his constantly approaching people to vent about Tiffany is really bringing down the mood.

Should I say anything?

You absolutely have sufficient grounds to escalate this to your manager and HR.

Josh appears to be retaliating against a colleague for rejecting his advances. That’s sexual harassment and it’s a really big deal. In fact, I’d argue that you have not only the standing to escalate it, but also an obligation to.

Even if Josh is telling the truth that his hostility against Tiffany has nothing to do with her turning him down, he still seems to be engaged in an aggressive campaign of vitriol against a colleague, and that itself is concerning. In addition, his comments about Tiffany’s looks and her relationship with the CEO are offensive and insulting and take it pretty damn close to sexual harassment all on their own (and potentially all the way there).

When you include the rejection history on top of that, Josh’s behavior is frankly frightening.

I hope the rest of you are telling Josh to STFU when he starts in on Tiffany — but please take it a step further and alert someone above you to the entire history. This is not okay.

my coworker wears pro-gun t-shirts, custodian brings me food, and more

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My coworker wears pro-gun t-shirts

I work at a financial/banking company where we have a “dress for your day” dress code. Most internal employees wear jeans everyday. My coworker has started to wear NRA apparel in the office. He’s always struck me as an odd person so I have tried to avoid him, but the shirts make me uncomfortable. I abhor guns and think the second amendment should be repealed (I am realistic enough to know that is unlikely). Is this something I can make a complaint to HR about?

Yes. And not just because it’s guns, but because any shirt with a controversial political message is a bad choice for work and most companies (and particularly companies in conservative industries like banking) prohibit them.

If it turns out they don’t care, then so be it, but it’s likely enough that they do that it’s reasonable to flag.

Related:
should I put my politics on display at work?

2. Custodian brings me food, and I want to turn down some but not all of it

I work with a very small staff at a nonprofit, and we just hired a new custodian who is wonderful! She also runs a catering business on the side.

Many mornings, she will bring us breakfast. This might be homemade foods from her catering business, but it also might be a fast food breakfast she bought on her way in. She’s even inquired about people’s dietary restrictions and accommodates them. She does not ask before bringing food, but simply shows up with it.

The thing is, while this is very kind, I’m uncomfortable with this person bringing me food she bought! First of all, I don’t love the idea of a person who makes significantly less than me bringing me purchased food, but also, I’m not a big fast food person. But at the same time, the homemade catering treats are really nice and don’t cost the custodian extra (because they’re leftover from gigs she worked, so she was paid to make them).

Can you think of any way to convey, “It’s very kind of you to bring food, and I’m happy to take leftovers you’re going to throw away otherwise, but please don’t buy me meals from other vendors anymore”? We always make sure she’s included in staff lunches, etc., even though she works different hours than the rest of us, and I’ve brought her my own homemade treats a couple of times. If the only thing to do at this point is put the kibbosh on her bringing me any food, I’ll do it, but I was wondering if it’s possible to thread this needle.

You could try, “I will happily eat catering leftovers if they’ll otherwise go to waste, but please don’t spend money buying me anything — I don’t feel right accepting that.” Or you could just say, “I love your catering leftovers, but I’m not a big fast food person.”

But really, whoever manages her should talk to her and say it’s incredibly kind of her to bring in food for people, but they don’t want her to spend her own money feeding the office.

3. I was asked to give negative feedback on my coworker

I joined my company about a year ago, at the lowest tier on our team. I have received great performance reviews and expect to be promoted soon. In anticipation of this, the team lead has hired another person at my level, Emily. In the few months that she has been on the team, Emily has not met expectations: she struggles to finish work on time and leaves the office early. When I tried to train her on one of my projects, she struggled to do basic computer tasks, like copying and pasting data between spreadsheets.

There is an unsaid feeling in the office that Emily is incompetent, but nothing has been done up until this point. A few days ago, I received an email from the team lead. In the message, she began by writing, “Emily has received negative feedback” and asked me to provide an example of working with Emily that detailed 1) how long it took to train her and support her 2) if the work was done on time/correctly 3) how long this process would have taken me and 4) screenshots of messages between Emily and me about the project. The email stated that this information would be referenced in a meeting with HR and Emily for her “success plan,” which I assume is a PIP.

This email made me extremely uncomfortable. I am not Emily’s supervisor — I have the same title and ostensibly the same responsibilities/pay that she does. I believe that this asks too much of me, and it creates a weird power dynamic on the team. I can’t imagine Emily facing people in the office after she hears specific details of their interactions (or even sees screenshots of private messages) in her meeting with HR. Additionally, the email suggests that if you do not meet expectations, your coworkers will be solicited for dirt on your behavior. The email requested a very prompt response, and so I provided a vague rundown of a project that I worked on with Emily, but I did not relay any incriminating details.

I am already looking for another job because of other managerial issues on this team, but I want to ask if you have the same reaction that I do. Is this inappropriate? I regret even responding at all, and am weighing whether to tell my team lead that I thought she put me in an uncomfortable position. How could I approach the lead about this?

Yeah, this is a weird way for them to do it. To be clear, it’s very normal for a manager who has concerns about someone’s performance to talk with others who work with the person for their impressions; sometimes that’s necessary and the only way to get enough information about how someone is doing. But that should be done discreetly, and it’s generally a conversation, not the sort of interrogatory email you received. I think you would have felt differently about this if your manager or team lead had met one-on-one with you and asked, “What’s your sense of how Emily’s doing?” and “Where are the areas where you think she needs more support?” You still might have felt uncomfortable, because it can be awkward to be asked for info that you know won’t reflect well on someone! But I don’t think it would have left with you the feeling you have now.

That said, it sounds as if you might object to being asked at all. There are jobs where to get a complete picture of someone’s performance, you do need input from colleagues, and if you frame your concern around that part of it, you’ll likely come across as a little naive. But you could certainly talk to them about the way they did it — although since it sounds like there are other problems with the management there which have already driven you to job-search, it might make more sense to just chalk this up as more of the same.

4. Is it normal to include an expiration date with a job offer?

Is it normal to write an expiration on an offer letter? The last few people we’ve offered positions to (whether they have ended up accepting or not) seem to blanch when we tell them – and we are up-front about it when we make the verbal offer. (“We enjoyed meeting you, we think you’d be a good fit, we’d like to offer you the job and will send out a formal offer letter today with the details, just so you know, there is an expiration on the offer.”) I set the expiration at seven days.

There is a shortage in our industry, and I know every qualified candidate has multiple offers right now. I think seven days to let me know whether or not you want the job is more than fair – or to come back with questions or counteroffers. But I’m not an HR person. We’re a small business so the responsibilities fall on me, but I have no formal training or anything. This is what my predecessor did, so it’s what I do. Am I wrong here?

It’s not unusual to set a deadline for when you need an answer by, and a week is pretty reasonable in most fields. But the more relevant question is whether the practice is working for you. If you’re hiring a majority of the candidates you want to hire, then it is. If you’re not — and especially if you’re getting feedback indicating that the expiration date is part of the issue — then you’d want to re-think.

In the latter case, you could make the timeline less of a formal one: instead of including an expiration date in the offer letter, try simply saying during the offer conversation itself, “Ideally we’d like your answer by (date) — is that doable on your end?” That way you can have more of a conversation about what their hesitances around that date are, if they have them.

For what it’s worth, I’ve never used formal offer expiration dates and lots of employers don’t. So if you’re doing it purely because your predecessor did, feel free to change things up.

Related:
how long should I give a candidate to think over a job offer?

5. Should my resume include an award for a project after I left?

A project I worked on for about a year received an award after I went on leave. Should I include the award on my resume?

If you can talk in concrete terms about your contributions to the project and you were there for a signifiant amount of the work, not just the planning stages, yes!

the new alphabetization scheme, the identical twin caper, and other stories of summer internships

Last week we talked about summer interns, and these are 12 of my favorite stories you shared.

1. The bookshelves

Best ever intern was at a publishing company. She re-alphabetized multiple bookshelves (hundreds of books) by AUTHOR FIRST NAME. Every time I looked at it I started laughing.

2. The identical twins

Years ago, I worked in a department store as a part-time job. The store decided to partner with local high schools to provide work experience for high school students, and they brought in about 10 students to work on Saturdays only, helping the sales associates on the busiest day of the week. On the second floor, which was women’s clothing, they brought in four teenagers, two of whom were sisters, and identical twins to boot!

One sister was assigned to my department (Special Sizes, which was plus and petite) and the other was assigned across the floor to Misses Sportswear. From the start, it seemed like we’d always have to go over to Misses Sportswear, find our intern, and send her back. Misses Sportswear would come over to our area to find their intern and send her back. We just thought it was the two sisters wanting to chat with each other. It took us over a month to figure out that only one sister was showing up on any given Saturday, signing in for both of them, and floating back and forth between the two departments.

3. The naps

We had an intern who would vanish every day for pronged periods of time. The intern’s manager and I kept noticing the disappearances and started looking around for him. We were in a small mixed office/warehouse space. At one point we found a desk chair in a corner of the warehouse where clearly he had been napping. He must have figured out we found it, and so found a new nesting spot.

We looked and looked and finally realized he had taken several throw pillows from the informal lounge/meeting area and put them under the stairwell outside our interior backdoor. One of the guys in my department put A MINT ON A PILLOW. The kid actually put a sticky note on it saying “touche.”

4. The hole

I worked at a national park, as a natural resources intern, for $15 a day and housing. Being a natural resources intern meant a lot of manual labor. All of us had second jobs or were on food assistance to make ends meet (I folded jeans overnight at the Gap, but that’s a different story). We were all exhausted all the time, and hungry.

The park was divided into cultural zones and natural resource zones. Silt and debris washed down a steep hill from a cultural zone into a natural resource zone. On a hot summer day, we were instructed to shovel the soil into wheelbarrows and push it up the hill back to where it came from. After dutifully following instructions for several loads, we decided to dig a big hole in the natural resource zone, dump the soil there and cover it back up. Then we sat in the shade for a while. Whelp, a couple weeks later there were a bunch of wildflowers that had sprouted where we had dug the hole. Flowers that hadn’t been seen in that national park in decades. We had inadvertently exposed the dormant seed bank! We were praised for our hard work, and I later learned that this was actually good ecological practice. Smarter, not harder!

5. The black mold

We had a year-long intern through a program that placed interns from a particular European country in U.S. nonprofits that did work related to that country’s history. One of said interns showed up for weekend shifts (9-5, a regular workday that rotated among all staff and full-time interns, in a public-facing role) drunk and would sleep it off in a closet. Intern lived in an apartment provided by the org. Over the course of about eight months, he destroyed a brand new sofa (not sure what he did, exactly, but it was covered in black mold) and did … something that resulted in the bathroom also being so covered in black mold that it had to be gutted. (The European-style stovetop espresso maker — you know the kind — was also packed to the brim with cigarette ashes. Intern claimed not to have known it wasn’t an ashtray.) Intern was removed from both internship and apartment, and org now provides a rent stipend for interns to secure their own housing — including signing their own lease.

6. The non-competition

In this instance, I was the intern, and the weirdness came from someone who was working in the office where I was interning. It was with a political campaign in 2012 or so, and I was recruited to the internship after volunteering by one of the organizers. After about a month of being there, the other organizer (a man in his 30s) who did not recruit me got really paranoid that I was going to take his job. I was a 19-year-old college student who was only home for the summer and was not interested in a full-time position, but the guy got super combative — he’d challenge me with pop quiz type questions about how to do something, then get weirdly pissed off if I knew the answers. He’d pile work on me one day, then ignore me for two or three, then get mad at me for not doing anything even though I had finished everything I was assigned. The office supervisor was rarely on-site and I didn’t really know how to deal with it.

In my last week, Paranoid Guy was shocked that I was actually going back to school (even though I’d told him that practically weekly) and suddenly started acting like we were best friends and complimenting my work and telling me he’d miss having me around. It was definitely a whirlwind lesson in office politics, which was not the political educational opportunity I was expecting!

7. The wrong job

My old job had two buildings, spread out but you couldn’t get to one without going past the second. The day the intern was supposed to start, he drove past the first building (where he was supposed to work) to the second. Boss at second building says, “Ah, you must be our intern!” and puts him to work. We spent two weeks wondering where the intern was, and the intern spent two weeks working at the second building. It wasn’t until he repeatedly fell asleep on the job that boss started asking around, realized the mistake, and sent him to us. He was similarly unproductive in our building.

How did it take so long to correct the mistake? How was the intern reporting time with no one noticing he hadn’t shown up? Why wasn’t this fixed by calling the intern on the first day? All questions I will wonder about for the rest of my life.

8. The parties

I worked for a large company, close to 5,000 people at that location. This was in the 90’s and this company was really good about celebrating the employees.

Our summer interns kept disappearing for hours at a time. We finally figured out that they were attending every celebration in the complex. Years of service parties, retirement parties, promotion parties, achievement celebrations. You name it, they went. The announcements were always sent building-wide because there were so many intersecting teams and many people had worked there for decades. A higher than average number of parties were in the summer because of common hiring/retirement months. It was not uncommon for there to be 10-15 gatherings a week.

They were mostly going to score the free food. We were sympathetic to them being poor college students so we finally said they could go for 15 minutes near the end of the scheduled parties, and no more than one party per day.

9. The assignment

As an intern at a very large energy company in the mid 90s, I was introduced to my manager, who was a large, sweaty, angry man who informed me (through clenched teeth the entire time) that his wife was having an affair and had given him hepatitis, and that his plan for the next several weeks was to arrange divorcing and suing her, suing her affair partner, and suing the company we were working for (I don’t think the company had anything to do with the affair – he was just furious at them separately). He handed me a single printed 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper and told me to accomplish the project on it, and as long as we never said another word until the last day of my internship he would sign whatever paperwork needed. In stunned silence, I went and read the project, which was to program an automated security system to monitor whether or not a critical piece of nationwide energy infrastructure was on fire (at the time, the company was paying dozens of people across the country to visually inspect it several times a day to make sure it was not, in fact, on fire).

The hitch with this assignment is that I was not a computer science major (nor did I have any formal science, programming, or engineering training). I was a high school graduate who was starting a Fine Arts degree the next fall. Long story short, I wandered around the dozens of floors of the corporate skyscraper for days (probably looking like a lost toddler) until I found a floor that looked like they might have the foggiest clue how to do what I had been tasked (they had lab coats, and better computers, and science looking equipment) – and managed to get directed to someone who gave me some how-to software manuals and technical documents, and would answer questions if I got stuck – and, against all odds, I did in fact come up with a very duct-taped computer program which would use a scratchy old-school modem to dial into various computerized monitoring stations connected to the thing and use some very rudimentary diagnostic information to determine if the thing was (probably) on fire. It made a wonderful screechy alarm noise if it thought the thing was on fire, and otherwise just dutifully wrote a little “probably not on fire” log, that anyone could check from the computer running the checks every couple of minutes.

There was an end-of-summer intern project demonstration – and I was incredibly frustrated to learn that there was actually more than *two dozen* interns working at that company that summer (no one told me, and apparently they didn’t know I was there, so I didn’t get invited to orientation, or group events, or check-ins to see how I was doing). Also, all the other interns had group projects like “learn how to use the internet, and come up with 10 ideas how the company could use it” or “look up info from old printed records and enter them into a spreadsheet.”

Everyone was astounded to see my software demo, and I heard at least one senior executive ask, “Who approved that as a project, we were told that wasn’t possible?” True to his word, my “manager” never said one more word to me and spent the entire summer yelling at a series of lawyers on his phone. But did write me a nice signed letter that I’d completed my internship to his satisfaction a couple of hours before he resigned in spectacular fashion, yelling profanities at everyone as he stomped off to the elevator and telling them they’d be hearing from his lawyer.

10. More napping

Not my intern, but a neighboring department. The intern would park the truck in the woods and nap underneath it. He would tie his hands to the undercarriage of the truck so it looked like he was working on it. He was busted when someone called it in for a possible tow.

11. The Spiderman

At a former job, people would always tell stories of a long-ago summer intern known only by the nickname “Spiderman.” In an effort to be deferential to his superiors, he would dramatically leap out of the way of anyone walking by in the office and press himself up against the wall, invoking the image of Spiderman sticking to walls with his superpowers.

12. The successful coaching

We had an intern a few years ago who was smart and hardworking but had no concept of work place norms. He thought that work email was optional – he said he didn’t want to use it so could we just tell him or text him what he needed to know? So we explained to him that unfortunately, he had to use email. He also had a terrible handshake (wet fish fingertips) and didn’t know how to tie his tie. One of the guys set up some coaching sessions with him to work on these things including introducing himself and shaking hands with everyone in the department. He is now working full time and is successful.

how much should I tell a team whose boss might be fired?

A reader writes:

Six months ago, I was promoted to lead a group of three managers who each lead around 20 people. “Howard,” one of the managers, had been hired two months before by my predecessor, but it was immediately obvious to me that his work was not up to par. I did my best to give Howard clear feedback about what he needed to improve, provided retraining, and was explicit that if he did not improve X by Y date, it would lead to first a performance improvement plan and ultimately termination. Unfortunately Howard did not improve so I fired him a month ago.

During this process, several of Howard’s direct reports came to me about their problems with his poor performance. I tried to acknowledge their concerns and assure them I was addressing the issues with Howard, but I didn’t think it was fair to tell anyone on his team that I had him on a PIP already.

After firing Howard, I had 1:1s with each of his direct reports, and three of them told me they had felt frustrated that I wasn’t taking any action to address Howard’s performance. I feel bad that I gave them this impression, but I don’t want to be the kind of boss who undermines my managers by telling their direct reports when they’re getting written up, put on a PIP, or fired. How do I reassure a team that I am addressing their boss’ poor performance while not spelling out the gory details?

I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

my team went on a Redneck Comedy bus tour and it was as bad as you’d expect

A reader writes:

I work in the marketing department of a fairly large healthcare company. I’ve been with the company for 15 years and with the marketing team for 12, and my coworkers are one of my favorite things about my job. We all get along really well, my boss and grandbosses are extremely supportive, and there is literally no drama in our department ever (there has been in the past, but the people who bring the drama always end up leaving or getting let go).

I say all that to say that what I’m writing about today is definitely an anomaly in an otherwise extremely positive work experience.

We all work remotely, but we get together in person twice a year for a couple of days and we recently had one of those meetings. We usually have one or two optional social outings, which I always attend because I enjoy hanging out with my coworkers. We’ve done things like going on a dolphin cruise, doing an escape room, happy hours, that kind of thing.

Well, this time, our administrative assistant, “Gina.” scheduled us for a Redneck Comedy bus tour. And yes, it was just EXACTLY how you would imagine it to be based on the name. I decided to give it a chance, because maybe it wouldn’t be as bad as I was expecting and plus, like I said, I enjoy hanging with my coworkers so I didn’t want to miss out on the chance to do that.

But it was definitely as bad as I expected. I don’t think this guy told a single joke that wasn’t racist, sexual, or misogynistic, if not all three. And the crazy thing to me is that Gina mentioned that she had warned the guy that we were a corporate group so he should keep everything HR-appropriate. I shudder to think what his non-HR-appropriate schtick was.

So I guess my question is: am I crazy or is that type of thing wildly inappropriate for a work-sponsored outing? Everyone else (there were 10 of us altogether) seemed to think it was hilarious, although I did see a few of them occasionally groaning at some of the worst jokes. And I feel like it’s important to note that the single black person on our team chose not to attend, which I can’t imagine is a coincidence since she’s participated in all the other activities we’ve done on past trips.

I’m going back and forth on whether I should speak up and say something. I didn’t say anything at the time because I didn’t want to ruin everyone else’s fun, but I kind of regret that now, since it probably seemed like I was perfectly fine with it. But now Gina sent us a survey to fill out and one of the questions has to do with feedback on the social portion of the week. I feel pretty confident that my boss and grandbosses would hear me out and there would be zero retaliation or bad reactions or anything from them. I guess I just need a little confirmation that my gut feeling about the whole thing isn’t off-base.

You are not off-base. Speak up!

This is egregious enough that you should speak up even if you weren’t being asked for feedback, but your opinion is being actively solicited! There is zero reason to keep your concerns to yourself, and tons of reasons to speak up.

Nearly every joke being racist, sexual, or misogynistic puts this so over the line that I’m baffled that Gina didn’t say something in the moment or immediately afterwards, given that earlier she’d thought about it enough to warn the comic to keep it work-appropriate. At a minimum she should have acknowledged it afterwards — but it would have been better to short-circuit the show once it was clear bigotry and sexism would be the theme. To be fair to Gina, that’s hard to do mid-show if you’re not in a senior role. But someone else there in a position of leadership should have.

Broadly speaking, stand-up comedy can be tricky for workplace events, since so much humor relies on being edgy and one person’s “edginess” is another person’s offensiveness. So any work group hiring a comedian needs to be clear ahead of time about what’s off-limits and make sure the comedian will adhere to that — and they also need to be willing to step in if things go off the rails.

And ugh, my heart hurts for your coworker, who sounds like she had a pretty good idea ahead of time of what this was likely to be and now has to grapple with the fact that her coworkers happily went and seemed to enjoy it.

Please speak up, and don’t sugarcoat it.

do my coworkers think I’m a lady of leisure, Covid precautions at a client dinner, and more

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Do my full-time coworkers think I’m a lady of leisure because I work part-time?

I work part-time at an elite private high school that my oldest child attends. How our very middle-class family ended up with a kid at this school is a long story, but please know it was a necessary last resort for my kid’s mental health.

Very luckily, just before school started, a part-time receptionist position opened up at the school and I practically ran to apply, as it comes with a partial tuition remission. I was nervous about this school. I thought it might be stuffy and elitist. I was so happy to discover this to not be true at all! My kid is happy at the school and I love working there! It’s only two days a week.

At work, I make sure I go above and beyond to be a top notch receptionist. I recently heard feedback from a coworker that my name came up in a meeting of the school administration about what a great hire I was and what an asset I’ve become to the front office.

The only problem is that there are a lot of affluent parents and I think some of my coworkers assume I am one of them. Every Tuesday, before I leave for the week, several people wave to me and say, “Enjoy your LONNNNNNNNG weekend!” or “Gosh, I wish it was MY Friday too.” At first I just laughed it off, but it’s been almost a year, and it’s every week. It’s getting old.

Do they think I’m this woman of leisure? If it matters, my clothes are from Old Navy and Target and my car is a not-fancy station wagon that’s older than my kid! On the days I’m not here, I’m taking care of a child with intensive medical needs, tutoring my oldest so she can keep up at school, cooking, cleaning, driving (my husband travels and is gone the majority of each week) and at night after my kids are in bed, I do freelance work. I average about 4-5 hours of sleep a night. I work HARD. To me, my weekend is the two days I’m at the school! They are the quietest, most relaxing days I have. I get to sit down!

I know I’m taking it too personally, right? Who cares what these people think? I guess I just don’t get why people would say something like that to someone they don’t really know? How about “Have a good week!” and leave it at that? After a year, would you snap and say something?

I think you’re reading too much into it! Maybe they think you’re a lady of leisure, or maybe they don’t. But either way, their comments almost certainly aren’t meant to be pointed barbs about the luxurious lifestyle they imagine you have. The comments sound more akin to hackneyed office commentary like “is it Friday yet?” or “another day in paradise!” — the cliche phrases that get thrown around every office that are really just a way of saying “ugh, work, amirite.”

But if it really bothers you, one option is to share more about your life with your colleagues — since if they get to know you better, they might still make the comments but you’ll probably be less likely to read an “enjoy your riches” subtext into them. But you could also just laugh and say, “Yeah, right. It’s way more relaxing here than at home.” (Although writing that last one out, I’m second-guessing it; you don’t want to sound like you’re minimizing their own jobs compared to your home responsibilities, particularly in a cultural context where moms who work often feel judged by moms who don’t and vice versa.)

2. Jobs with no negotiation and a huge salary range

I recently came across a job listing that stated they would be using a salary algorithm to determine compensation and would not be allowing any negotiation. I found this a little odd, especially since the range given for the position was quite large ($145,000-$225,000). The organization gives signs of valuing equity and inclusion (generous PTO and six months paid parental leave, explicit professional development benefits outlined in the job posting), so it feels like this is their attempt to ensure all applicants get treated fairly in determining compensation. Am I right that this is a little off-base, especially since they weren’t clear what variables are fed to the algorithm? Or is this the way all jobs should be looking to make salary negotiations more fair?

I have no problem with not allowing negotiation if they’re clear up-front about what a job pays and the initial posting is both accurate and thorough; people can then decide whether or not they’re interested in applying.

But a range this big? Whether negotiation is possible or not, they need to explain what skills and experience would get you placed where in that range (and the larger the range, the more important that is). Clearly they know because they’ve programmed their algorithm with it. Telling people, “Our offer will be take-it-or-leave-it and, by the way it could fall anywhere within an $80,000 spread” is BS — and a good way to make a lot of candidates question whether they want to invest time in interviewing. (If they tell you where you would fall in their range during the first phone screen, I’m less annoyed, but it’s still not good practice.)

3. Covid precautions at a client dinner

I am a high-performing WFH employee at a very small company. I take more Covid precautions in my daily life than anyone else at this company (I technically am high-risk but with a very common condition). When the team gets together, I wear a mask, and the rest of the team has seen this but never commented. In a few weeks, a client is coming to town and a few members of my team are taking them out to dinner. Client management like this isn’t in the scope of my work, but I anticipate being included in this invite.

I do not want to go and want to explain that any precautions I would take at this dinner (mask when not eating, portable air purifier) would look “weird” and run counter to the dinner’s goal of soothing and retaining clients. Is there a way for me to communicate this clearly without making it a “big deal” in such a small company? (We do not have a formal HR department.) I have a yearly review scheduled for the same week and don’t want this to occupy mindshare.

“Because I’m high-risk for Covid, I’d have to mask and bring a portable air purifier. From a client relations perspective, my sense is it would be better for me to sit this one out so that my precautions aren’t the focus.”

Also, if you’d feel safer not going even if they want you to come despite this warning, then I’d skip that and just say that because you’re high-risk, you’re avoiding indoor dining with large groups (if that’s true).

4. My boss told me not leave documents out — is her reason correct?

My boss has me filing work order documents, I left two folders on my desk to work on the next day. When I came in the next morning, she told me that I needed to make sure to put the folders away always, and not keep them on my desk because if we got randomly audited she would get in trouble.

I don’t know if this is true or she used it as an excuse to have me keep the files in the drawers. I would just like to know if we would get in trouble if we were suddenly randomly audited and work order files were found outside of the cabinet.

Sure, depending on the contents of the documents and if they’re confidential, it’s possible that an audit could take issue with them being left in the open. It’s also possible that your boss just doesn’t like documents left out and is borrowing the authority of the auditor rather than owning her preference, who knows.

More to the point, though, it doesn’t really matter! If your boss asks you to store documents a certain way, you should store them that way. Unless your boss is asking something unreasonable or unrealistic, you generally need to do your job the way she asks you to. (That doesn’t mean there’s no room for pushback if you have a reason for wanting to do it differently. But ultimately it’s her call.)

5. Is it legal not to pay someone if HR’s software fails?

A weird situation, and for legal context all of this is happening at a university in Massachusetts. I’m just so angry, and I can’t tell if I have a right to be angry or if HR is correct.

We hired a student in May, but HR’s software made a mistake and only hired her for September. The student, bless her heart, didn’t tell us about this until three pay periods had passed, and we, of course, emailed HR to ask them to fix this. They, in their “wisdom,” hired her and put her on the normal pay period as she had just missed the cutoff, so she will now have not been paid for two months.

I have been emailing back and forth with HR asking them to pay her sooner than the normal payroll, or make her whole beyond what she is owed, but they keep insisting that because she was only hired at the official time there is no reason to. I say, however, that if their software makes a mistake that does not mean that she was not hired, and she is owed her money as soon as possible and with restitution.

Honestly, I am going to continue to suggest to the student that she work with her union to file a wage complaint, but am I crazy? Does a software mistake on HR’s part mean that this student was never “hired” and therefore does not need to be paid as if HR made a mistake?

You are right and HR is wrong. Employers are legally required to pay employees within specific time periods set out by state law, and “our software messed it up” doesn’t release them from that obligation. Here’s what Massachusetts’s pay deadlines are.

Caveat: government sometimes excludes themselves from the employment rules they lay out for everyone else, so if this is a public university you’d need to check whether they’re exempt from this (although I doubt they are). Either way, I suggest saying to HR, “State law requires us to pay wages owed within X days of the pay period ending. She’d be within her rights to file a wage complaint with the state if we don’t comply with the law.”

Also, if you’ve been dealing with the same HR person through all of this, consider escalating it over their head.

weekend open thread — June 29-30, 2024

This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand.

Here are the rules for the weekend posts.

Book recommendation of the week: Same As It Ever Was, by Claire Lombardo. A woman with a rocky history with her mom tries to navigate a life very different from her own upbringing. It’s about family, friendship, self-sabotage, and overcoming the way you grew up. It’s long — at times, I thought too long — but ultimately satisfying.

* I make a commission if you use that Amazon link.

open thread – June 28, 2024

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.