Ask a Manager

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Managing an interruptor during an urban foraging class

A dear friend of mine teaches classes on urban foraging for edible weeds, such as dandelions, creeping wood sorrel, and stinging nettles. She’s written a book on how to identify, ethically forage, and cook common urban weeds. Before teaching the classes, she does a neighborhood walk-through to see what plants are growing in the various public right-a-ways, so she gets an idea of which plants she will feature and how to time and plan the walk/class. I’ve taken her class, and her style is fascinating and engaging. Plus, I know where to find the best sweet pea tendrils in the neighborhood.

Recently, she told me about a class where a know-it-all was in attendance. My friend would be in the middle of discussing a plant, when this person would divert the discussion to another plant nearby, and start talking about it. It happened repeatedly and was frustrating for my friend and probably for the other students who came to learn from my friend. My friend never experienced what felt like a hijacking of her class, and tried to handle it as graciously as she knew how, but ended up wishing she knew a better way of handling the situation. What might she do if she encounters such a weedy situation again?

Once, you let it go. Maybe even twice. But the next time it happens, you say, “Let’s hold that discussion for now so I can finish explaining about this spotted bee balm.” Or another option: “Let me ask you to hold that for now since I don’t want us to run out of time.”

If it happens after that: “There are a lot of plants out here that we could talk about, but with our limited time, I try to focus on the ones I think will be most of interest to the whole group. We can talk after the walk ends about others you’re curious about if you’d like.” Depending on her read of the room (street? field?), she could say that to him privately or to the group.

She probably should build in some time for extemporaneous discussions when people have thoughts or questions about something they’re seeing (and your friend probably already does that because she sounds great at this). But that’s different than continually accommodating off-topic interruptions when she’s in the middle of talking.

2. How can I offer to consult for my old job when I quit?

I have worked at my small nonprofit for almost four years. Due to poor leadership, negligence on the part of the board, and a difficult working environment, I am job searching and think/hope I will have a job offer very soon. I believe strongly in the mission of the nonprofit and I like everyone here, but it’s just such an oddly toxic workplace with very little support that I have to go.

I oversee almost everything operational here, though. I plan on giving a couple weeks notice and do my best to get everything prepared to hand-off to others, but I am sure I will get regular calls, texts, and emails with questions. I would like to set the boundary that I am willing to assist within reason and as a paid contractor/consultant. Would you suggest that be part of the resignation letter or how would you suggest going about that and what would the wording look like?

It shouldn’t be part of the resignation letter; that should be very short, just one or two sentences, as it’s simply to document a decision that you’ll hopefully have already relayed via a conversation. If you want to make that offer, it can be part of the resignation conversation, or one later as you’re discussing the transition. For example: “If it would be helpful, I’d be happy to set up a short-term consulting arrangement for the first few months after I’ve left. If that might be helpful, I can propose rates and other details.”

If they say they don’t think they’ll need it, you could say, “My sense is that I’m likely to get a lot of calls and emails with questions, so I want to make sure have a plan for handling that. But if you don’t think it’s needed, I’ll just flag it for you if it does indeed happen.” (And then if that happens and they’re not paying you, email your former boss about what’s happening and make the offer a second time. If they decline, then so be it — but also don’t answer more than one or two questions if so.)

All that said … I urge you to reconsider offering it. It’s going to keep you tethered to your old job right when you need to pour your energy into the new one, and it will deny you the joy of a clean break (a particular joy, and mental health relief, when you’re escaping a dysfunctional environment). It really is okay to just leave and be fully gone; they will figure things out. I know nonprofit work often makes you feel an extra obligation (and I have been there myself) but, truly, it’s okay to just be gone when you go. Leave behind reasonable documentation (95% of which no one will ever read, but it will make you feel better) and just go. They’ll survive. (And if they won’t survive because of that, they weren’t going to anyway and you’re just prolonging the inevitable.)

3. I want to return to the office — but I’d need a salary increase to move

I’ve been working at my company for a little over two years as a salaried employee. Previously I had freelanced for them for another two years before that.

I am remote, and have been since the beginning, and for the most part I really like it. All of our work is via Slack internally or involves working with freelancers internationally, so it’s not like I’m needed in the office … but I am so lonely!

Freelancing and then remote work has been a very isolating, quiet experience for me. I’m grateful for the freedom, but I would really like to be in the same city, at least, as the rest of my team, who are all young, creative types who I really respect and admire. They have events, hangouts, team dinners, and meetings, and I feel like I’m missing out on networking and relationships. People come into the office when they like and the company is not asking for anything more than one company-wide day a month, so I could still pick and choose the days I came in and worked in person.

I’m in a low-cost-of-living area, literally across the country from everyone else (and so my salary reflects this), compared to the coworkers who are located in a very high-cost-of-living area where the office is. (I’m not 100% sure of the pay difference in terms of having hard numbers from coworkers, but when I was hired they did mention that they do a lower salary range for different areas.)

I would love to move — and coworkers have said that they would love to have me in the office if I did — but I have no idea how to ask for a potential raise or pay bump when they’re not asking me to come back to office. I’m pretty young, with no kids, and a long-term partner (who is seeking work in the same industry), so I’m in a decent position to uproot my life if I need to. Am I just taking my remote freedom for granted here? Am I crazy?

Talk to your manager! Say it this way: “I’m really interested in moving to (city) so that I can be on-site in the office more often. When I was hired, you mentioned that the company pegs salaries based on the cost-of-living in the area where an employee is located, and that I’d have a lower range while I was in (current city). How would that work if I moved to (new city)? I’m interested in being there in-person but couldn’t do it on a salary that isn’t pegged to the area.”

4. Banning smoking on breaks

I’m not a smoker, but my company has strict rules banning smoking. I understand they can ban it from the premises, but they go so far as to say that you can’t smoke on your unpaid meal breaks, at all. Can they do this? Do they have the right to enforce that policy and say my coworkers can’t leave the property and go down the street to smoke?

It depends on your state and your industry. In many states, employers are free to refuse to hire smokers at all (although some states have passed laws making that illegal) and in those states they could indeed mandate no smoking during work hours. Even in states that protect smokers, employers can generally enforce anti-smoking rules if not smoking is an important part of the job (for example, a health care job might ban smoking during breaks so that you don’t come back smelling like smoke around patients).

5. Should I tell this employer why I’m withdrawing from their hiring process?

I am a military spouse job-hunting from across the country as we prepare to move from one coast to another. I recently had a bizarre interaction with a prospective employer and wanted to know what you think.

I had my first interview on a Monday via Zoom and was contacted the next day to request a second interview … that same Friday, in person. I was concerned that they were not willing to do a Zoom interview a second time given the distance, but I understand some information is easier to gather face-to-face. That said, this was not a situation where they needed me to fly in because I was a finalist; the first round interview was basically a screener so I know I was one of several candidates for the second round. I should also note that this was not for a senior-level position; it pays about $45K and is an administrative role.

I was also concerned when they declined to reimburse me for my flight costs. It’s standard in my industry (higher education) to do so, but I sort of waved it off because it is a smaller school that probably does not interview non-local candidates very often, if ever.

Finally, they called me again on Wednesday that week canceling the interview citing unforeseen circumstances; this was about 18 hours before my flight was set to leave. Thankfully, I was able to get everything refunded.

Despite all these issues, I did end up taking a second interview when they called to reschedule (side note: the people in the second interview were the same people from the first interview) because I had some moving tasks that could be done while I was in town. However, from this process I inferred that this team was not going to be a great fit. I felt like they were asking for a lot of flexibility on my part while being very inflexible on their part. I have small children so a workplace that is understanding of the demands that go along with school calendars and constant sickness is very important to me, and I just can’t reconcile that with “please pay out of pocket for a flight on a holiday weekend in 48 hours.” My question is whether there is a way to offer this feedback or just leave it at a “I don’t think this is a good fit” if they contact me again. Or if I’m totally off-base and this is a normal amount of commitment to expect from a candidate!

You’re not off-base. If you ask someone to pay their own travel costs for an interview and then cancel that interview at the last minute, you at a minimum should inquire about whether their ticket will be refundable and cover it if it’s not.

That’s leaving aside the question of whether they should have been paying for it in the first place and there are a bunch of factors that go into that. Ultimately, if they have plenty of strong local candidates, I don’t have a problem with them declining to cover travel for long-distance ones, but it’s inconsiderate to ask you to fly out before you’re a finalist.

But I don’t think there’s much to be gained by telling them this unsolicited. The interview process worked as it’s supposed to: you learned enough to determine that the job wouldn’t be a good fit for you. If they contact you again, it’s enough to just say you’re withdrawing from consideration. (Although if they ask why, at that point you can certainly say that you’re looking for a workplace where flexibility goes both ways and your sense is that it’s not a good fit in that regard.)

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Employee is unhappy that a coworker with an accent is “mispronouncing” her name

I supervise a small team in a large nonprofit. Our organization is very big on DEI and ensuring we have an inclusive environment. Using other people’s preferred names is a non-negotiable for employment at my agency.

I have a direct report, “Paula,” who works with another one of my direct reports, “Simon.” Simon is British and, just like the real Simon Cowell, adds an “r” to the end of many words that end in a, including Paula. This is his accent and short of intense accent coaching, which of course would be unreasonable, I know he can’t change it.

Paula came to me and said she is unhappy with the way Simon pronounces her name, specifically the added r. I told her that Simon is not doing it on purpose, that is just his accent. Paula said he should make an effort to pronounce it “correctly.” I said that is correct according to how it’s said in his part of the world.

Thus far I have not said anything to Simon, but should I? I just don’t think this is the same thing as someone purposely mispronouncing or using the wrong name for someone, although Paula is implying it is.

Paula is in the wrong. But I don’t think your framing of the reason she’s wrong (Simon is pronouncing her name according to how it’s said in his part of the world) is quite right. After all, if someone went by Jacinta with a J sound, it wouldn’t be okay for someone to insist on pronouncing it “Hacinta” just because that’s how it’s pronounced in Spanish-speaking countries.

The issue is that Simon is pronouncing Paula the way he does because he has an accent and this is how his mouth forms those particular sounds, just like how someone from Boston might say “pahk” instead of “park.” Paula needs to deal with the fact that accents and dialects exist. Address it with her, not with Simon.

2. Can I say no to attending a three-night retreat?

My boss is planning a four-day/three-night out-of-state retreat with our team and some of our clients. We’ll be at a mountain retreat center, with nowhere to go, I’m supposed to share a room with a coworker, and all of our meals and activities will be with our team and clients. My boss sees this as a fun event (hikes, socializing, etc.). I have family obligations, and being away this long is a huge inconvenience for me.

Would it be horrible for me to say that I can’t attend? Some of our clients have said they can’t come due to family obligations, so my reason would be the same. And, if I do attend, is it reasonable to expect that I’d be paid for 12-14-hour workdays? The days are packed with team-building, team socializing, shared meals, etc., and it’s out in the mountains so it’s not like I can go home or go off on my own in “down time.” In past years, my predecessor did attend this retreat every year and I think only got paid for a regular workday and of course travel/food expenses were paid, but that doesn’t seem right to me given that I’m at this place completely for my employer and dealing with a huge hassle in arranging overnight childcare for my family. I’m an hourly employee and the least senior of my coworkers.

Sometimes you can get out of this kind of thing and sometimes you can’t. Your chances are better since your job isn’t high level, so your presence might not be seen as being as crucial as others’. Assuming you weren’t told when you were hired that occasional overnight travel would be part of the job, it’s reasonable to at least give it a shot — and childcare commitments are often high on the list of persuasive reasons. So try saying, “I have childcare commitments at home and can’t do overnight travel.” You could add, “I’ve looked for ways to make this work, and it’s just not possible.”

They might come back and tell you it’s a job requirement, at which point you’ll have to decide if you’re willing to do it or not, but there’s a decent chance you’ll be able to get out of it. If you do go and you’re non-exempt, you’d need to be paid for all time spent working (but not downtime).

3. Can a company hold onto your belongings for a few days after they fire you?

I have a question from years back. I was let go from a grant writing position at a nonprofit after my 90-day probation period. It was my first job after grad school and getting fired truly sucked. But what made it so much worse was that I wasn’t allowed to clean out my desk — they brought me to a conference room in another part of the building and informed me of the date/time (when our office was closed) when I could come back to get my personal things under supervision from someone from HR.

This made me feel like a criminal, but more to the point: Is that legal? Can a company just … keep your stuff and refuse to let you have it till they’re ready?

Yes, it’s legal and not terribly uncommon for an employer not to allow you back to your desk to gather your things and instead to arrange a time for you to return for them, or in some cases they’ll box them up and mail them to you. However, they do need ensure you receive your property in the reasonably near future (not months from now) or you could sue for its return (although whether it would be worth doing that is a different question).

For the record, this is a bad policy in almost all cases; most people being let go don’t need to be treated like criminals. But it’s legal.

4. My boss encouraged me to apply for a promotion but now keeps criticizing me

I’ve been at my company for several years and have earned a reputation as a reliable subject matter expert. Last year I moved into a related role. My manager started talking about a promotion at the end of last year. When the role above mine opened last month, I applied for it as I felt ready and my manager has been so supportive. When I told her I applied, she was visibly hesitant.

Over the last month, our relationship has spiraled down. Prior to my applying, she never had any feedback, even if I directly asked. Now, she has feedback on everything. From her feedback, some of this might be coming from senior leadership and she just never passed it along to me before and some of it is coming from her.

I applied in good faith based on her feedback and it’s been the biggest mistake. I feel like I look out of touch and naive. Is there a way to salvage my standing at work by withdrawing from consideration or should I just let it ride? I really like my company as a whole and would hate to leave but it’s starting to feel like the only option.

I suspect that now that she’s looking at you as a serious candidate for a specific promotion, she’s seeing areas where you need to grow and trying to make sure you get that feedback now. She could be doing that with an eye toward strengthening you as a candidate, not eliminating you as one. Or she might be trying to prepare you with all the reasons it’s not going to happen. (If so, that’s not okay! If she doesn’t think you’re right for this promotion, she should be up-front with you about that.)

Why not talk to her about it more openly? For example: “Last year you mentioned thinking I was ready for a promotion, and that was a big reason I applied for the X role last month. Since then I’ve gotten the sense that you might not think that role is the right fit for me, so I wanted to check back with you. Do you think I’m a plausible candidate, or are there things I’d need to do differently before being competitive for it? I want to make sure you and I are on the same page.”

5. I’m upset that my job changed me to non-exempt

Yesterday, two-thirds of my team had a meeting with HR letting us know that our FLSA status had changed and we were being moved from exempt to non-exempt status and would have to start clocking in and out for work and lunch.

I know I’ll get used to it and am overreacting a little, but I really don’t want to have to log in to a separate system four times per day and hit the clock. I haven’t done this in years and I enjoy the freedom of being trusted to do my job with a focus on productivity rather than accounting for hours worked. I don’t want to go back to punching in and having to notify my manager when the system doesn’t work or I forget to log in before I start working. My feelings on this are not neutral and are definitely driving some of my reaction here.

I asked for clarification, because I know the new rule regarding salary that you’ve written about doesn’t apply to us; we make more than the amount specified by that rule. The HR rep said that legal and HR management had determined our roles do not meet the administrative exemption of the job duties test.

I reviewed that criteria and I don’t think it’s right. We meet the first two criteria without question. The third, which involves exercising independent judgement, is the only one that I can see being equivocal. But the thing is, that would mean that my role is not one in which I can exercise independent judgement?

I do, every day. It’s literally written in my annual reviews by my managers that I exercise judgement in my day-to-day work. We’re trusted to make decisions up to a certain level without consulting our managers, and our managers rely on our judgement.In addition, I supervise a contractor who I interviewed and recommended hiring, trained, and supervise. I don’t see how my role doesn’t meet the admin exemption.

Would it be out of line to ask that my job description and role status be reviewed to reflect the work I actually do? Especially since it’s written in my reviews that I do work that appears to meet the test? If so, what materials should I put together to make my case, and how should I present it?

If they disagree, should I stop exercising independent judgement? After all, if I’m not supposed to be, I probably shouldn’t be? I don’t really want to tank the quality of my work, but if the company doesn’t think my role includes exercising independent judgement, should I just clock in and out and refer every question of judgment to my manager? I realize this probably sounds petty and overreacting, and I’m sure it is, but I’ve been doing this job at a high level for years and this feels like a slap in the face in some ways and it just doesn’t feel right.

Yeah, you’re overreacting and taking something personally that isn’t. The definition for exempt positions does include language about exercising independent judgment, but that doesn’t mean that non-exempt positions don’t or can’t. In fact, lots of non-exempt professional positions exercise independent judgment! Employers can expect that of you without it meaning your position is exempt. (So no, you definitely should not start declining to do so.)

More importantly, while there are restrictions on who can qualify as exempt, there are no restrictions on who employers can treat as non-exempt. They could treat 100% of their workforce, including the CEO, as non-exempt if they chose to! They generally don’t, because that would mean they’d have to pay everyone overtime, but they could if they wanted to.

That said, you can certainly ask for a review of your status. But before you do, I want to make a pitch for embracing non-exempt status! Yes, you have to track your hours, but it also means you get paid for every bit of time over 40 hours that you work in a week (at time and a half, no less) and you won’t find yourself ever working unpaid, unlike many exempt workers.

Related:
what the hell is all this talk of exempt and non-exempt about?
is being salaried a scam?

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. Should I not have invited an ex-coworker to a holiday lunch?

This happened a couple years ago but has bothered me ever since. A well-loved employee of eight years left the company after a major change in leadership. A terrible change in leadership, which she was not happy with, so her leaving was somewhat fraught with emotion (we were shocked she left!). She resigned and finished her work while our city was still in lockdown, so her farewell was over Zoom. About a month later, we were set free and had our team’s Christmas lunch at a local pub. We were still friends, so I mentioned it while we were chatting about things. I suggested to her that she should pop in once the event was officially over (outside of work hours) so we could say a proper goodbye as her Zoom farewell was not so fabulous.

She did in fact pop in — well after the event had ended, when most of us were just hanging about, finishing drinks which we had self purchased. She was warmly received, with loads of hugs and well wishes, with nothing but people happy to see her. As we sat there, someone turned to me and drama whispered, “OMG do you know who invited her?!” and I responded that yes, in fact, I had. This employee said to me, “You’d better call in sick tomorrow. There’s going to be a major witch hunt to find out who would do this.” A couple more people also warned me that I’d “get in trouble.” Turns out, because this person had left in an unhappy way, management had kind of “disowned” her, and had apparently treated her as persona non grata in her final weeks. Apparently they were going to have a hissy fit that she was “allowed” to come to this event and my head was going to be on the chopping block.

I don’t get it. She showed up to a public place, after an event, to see some ex-work-mates. Did I do something wrong here?

For the record, I showed up to work the next day. Nobody said anything to me, but when I too resigned a few weeks later (because I found a great new role), management also treated me as though I had the plague for my final weeks. Apparently this was their thing? No matter who you were, if you resigned, you were immediately hated and they talked shit about you.

The idea of a “major witch hunt” because a former employee dropped in toward the end of an out-of-office social event is indeed ridiculous. But I will also point out that it didn’t happen — your coworkers warned you that it would, but it didn’t. To me, that says that your management had created a deeply dysfunctional environment where people anticipated blowback based on the amount of vitriol that had already been circulating, which is itself a problem; your coworkers just misjudged exactly how it would play out in this situation.

That said, there are situations where inviting a former employee who’s known to be persona non grata with your management would affect you politically. It’s not the same as your situation, but if you’d invited someone who had, I don’t know, stolen the firm’s client list or screamed “fuck you” at everyone on the way out the door — or even this person — your management might rightly take issue with that, and it could affect how people saw your judgment and your trustworthiness.

Even in a situation like yours, when management was wrong to be upset with the ex-employee, inviting that person to a social event that’s been organized for employees could still have political implications for you. You might decide you don’t care on principle, but you’d still want to be aware that it was something that could blow back on you and make your decisions accordingly.

2. New meds make me burp constantly

I am on some new meds, and the two worst side effects are nausea and belching. They are mostly little, but I am burping constantly. I’ve told my team about it, lest they think I’m suddenly disgustingly rude, and they understand (we’re too close with too many boundaries crossed, so this was just a little thing to say).

But we’re merging companies and I’m going to be in charge of more people who I don’t know and don’t have the same relationship with. It’s not something I want to share with everyone just because we cross paths, and I am hoping that a new influx of people will help move my group to a more professional attitude, so I don’t want to necessarily share from that aspect, either. A boss shouldn’t generally say these things to their employees.

We’re in an open office plan, and not everyone will hear every burp, but everyone is going to have to deal with it sooner or later and to some extent. Of course I say “excuse me,” but it’d honestly be easier for me and a lot faster to just pretend it didn’t happen, or I’m saying “excuse me” all day long!

So, do I tell my new staff? Do I just pretend it’s not happening after the first “excuse me”? Do I just say “excuse me” 700 times a day? (And no, Pepto doesn’t help!)

I mean, I wouldn’t open with “I burp a lot” when you’re first introduced, but it’s fine to explain it at some point relatively soon after starting to work together. For example: “Excuse me, a medication I’m on causes belching. I find it’s less disruptive if I don’t say ‘excuse me’ every time, so please consider this a blanket ‘excuse me.’” There’s nothing inherently inappropriate about saying that to employees, and people are generally more patient and accommodating with stuff that’s been acknowledged and explained.

3. Why do recruiters ask for MY impression of an interview first?

I need help with a job hunting pet peeve.

I realize that recruiters are humans just trying to do their job in the way they’ve been taught to do it, I know that being rude or hostile to a recruiter would be a Very Bad Move, I always try to be externally warm and polite even when I’m internally screaming “LEAVE ME ALONE!”

That being said, when recruiters set me up with an interview, the first thing they do after is call me and ask how I think it went. Which is okay if it’s just an introductory call where we’re both evaluating each other, but they also do this for technical screenings where the hiring team is evaluating my skills. WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME HOW IT WENT? My opinion isn’t the one that matters here! I’m probably already really stressed about it, the last thing I want is to rehash it with a stranger. Why don’t they just ask the hiring team first? Then they could tell me how I did.

I realize that I’m having an outsized emotional reaction that has more to do with the stress of job hunting than recruiter behavior, but I could use some generic, noncommittal scripts to make these interactions easier.

Recruiters are, at the core, salespeople and they are trying to sell you to their client, the employer. They want to talk to you first so that they know if you think you bombed the interview, or if you’re not very interested in the job anymore, or if something weird happened that they’ll need to smooth over, or if you don’t want to move forward without clarity on issue X, and on and on. They feel more in control if they gather info like that from you first, so that they’re not flying blind when they talk to their client.

It might be more intuitive if you imagine, say, sending a junior team member to meet with a VIP. Afterwards, you’d probably prefer to check in with the junior team member before you talk to the VIP in case anything happened that you’ll need to manage on your end, and so you have some info before you go into your conversation with the higher-stakes person.

It’s also not true that your opinion doesn’t matter; you could decide you don’t want the job, and it’s in the recruiter’s interests to know that early on if so.

4. I can’t get anyone to acknowledge my resignation

Earlier this year I took a second job as a fitness instructor, and … I hate it. The location is one of many in a large chain, and ever since my onboarding I have felt quite alone and things have been very disorganized. I recently found out that I wasn’t even trained properly. So I decided to quit teaching this particular class. The problem is that my immediate supervisor also resigned about a month ago, and a replacement hasn’t been hired yet. I sent a resignation email to the site leader (my grandboss), and I have heard nothing back. It’s been almost a week.

I realize that it isn’t technically my problem, but being an instructor is customer-facing and continuing to be on the schedule and “no-showing” would look really bad, especially to the members who I’ve developed a rapport with. I also teach at another location in the chain that has a much better culture, and I don’t want to do anything to burn that bridge. I was planning to follow up at the beginning of the final week of my notice period, but is there something else that I should do here?

I wrote back and asked, “Any reason not to call them today?”

I’ve never even met him and couldn’t pick him out of a lineup, so this didn’t occur to me. Duh. I suppose I could try that. And if I just get voicemail?

Yep, call him! If you get voicemail, leave a message explaining the situation — something like, “I want to make sure you received the resignation I emailed you on (date). I hadn’t heard anything back and wanted to confirm you’ve seen it. I’ll need to be taken off the schedule after (date). Please let me know you’ve received this so I don’t keep trying to reach you!”

Whenever your need to reach someone is time-sensitive and you haven’t heard back via email, try calling. Even if you’ve never met the person or spoken to them before. When one method isn’t working and time matters, always try another. (Within reason, obviously — don’t resort to showing up at their house. But a phone call should always be fairly high on the list of things to try.)

Read an update to this letter.