my coworkers are in a self-help cult, I pretended I’m allergic to bees, and more by Alison Green on July 5, 2024 I’m off today. Here are some past letters that I’m making new again, rather than leaving them to wilt in the archives. 1. I got in trouble for saying “bite me” in a meeting I recently attended an intense work group meeting with my boss and a coworker. The coworker responded to one of my questions with a joke, to which I responded jokingly back with “bite me.” Everyone laughed it off at the time, but in a recent routine meeting with the boss I was reprimanded. The boss said she looked up the term and it means “F off.” I am mortified because I do not think of that term in such a vulgar way. It was simply an quick response said in a joking manner, in private, in what I thought was a safe space. Am I wrong to feel a bit singled out? I don’t think it means “F off” exactly, although it means something in the same neighborhood — and either way, it’s a fairly vulgar and aggressive term to use at work. There are some offices where it would be completely fine, and others where it would be jarringly out of place. Your boss has just let you know this one is the latter, at least in her view. That’s a reasonable call for her to make. I doubt she’s going to hold a grudge over this, but if your sense is that it’s colored the way she sees you, you could always say, “I wanted to apologize again for my language the other day. I hear that term so often that I wasn’t thinking of it as vulgar, but I appreciate you flagging it for me and I won’t use it again.” And keep in mind that work meetings aren’t a safe space — you very much will be judged on what you say in them, and even when you’re quite comfortable with a particular set of colleagues, you can still be expected to speak reasonably professionally. – 2019 2. My coworkers are in a self-help cult A few months back, my coworker Jason, then new to the team, was hawking a program which from Googling appears to be a for-profit self-help cult. Jason has done the full program and volunteers with them in his free time. Bernadette decided to try it and signed up for the the $800 intro course a couple of months ago. Over a recent weekend, she took the “advanced” course as well. In a team meeting this week, Bernadette spent about five minutes rambling an apology about how she has been dissatisfied at work because she wasn’t giving it her all and how she thinks she’s a bad team member and wants to do better, while Jason encouraged her with smiles and nods. Bernadette has been a stellar team member for the past year other than this self-denunciation. I have no idea where her perception that she’s no good comes from, but my guess would be a combination of Impostor Syndrome and the cult. The unaccountable apology was uncomfortable and awkward for the rest of the team, and none of us knew what to say in that moment, so we all just sort of stared at our laptops. I don’t want anyone else here to be harmed by this expensive systematic bullying, nor do I want our team meetings to be disrupted by this kind of bizarre and unprofessional outburst in the future. What in the world do I do? For now, I don’t think there’s much you need to do about the meeting disruption. If you start seeing more of this at meetings, you should flag it for your manager — but if it stays a one-time weird moment, I’d just leave it for now. You could, however, counter to Bernadette the critical things she said about herself. You could also make sure that other people on your team know the facts about the organization, so that they might be more likely to decline if Jason or Bernadette try to recruit them (especially because trying to recruit is part of the model). You could try giving Bernadette and Jason that same information too, of course — but people caught up in things like this typically will have already been trained to resist outside critiques of the group, and it may cause some tension in your work relationships with them. (Which you might be fine with! Just factor that in.) – 2019 Read an update to this letter here. 3. I pretended I’m allergic to bees when I’m not, and it made things weird I’m fresh out of college and starting my first job, so I’m already self-conscious about how young and inexperienced I am. I was walking to my car with a few coworkers when I saw a bee on my car door handle. I have always had a fear of bees, so I panicked a little. One of my coworkers gave me a weird look, so I said, “Oh I’m allergic to bee stings and I don’t want to get sick.” Well, the nurse (I work at a school) overheard and now they’re asking for an allergy plan and Epi-pen. I’m not even really allergic! How do I get out of this without it seeming weird? We’ve all said something weird in the spur of the moment and then later thought, “Why on earth did that come out of my mouth?” Talk to the nurse privately and say, “I overstated the situation. I’ve been stung before so I’m afraid of it happening again, but I’m not actually allergic. I should have been clearer — I’m sorry for raising any alarm!” – 2019 4. Did this candidate really work on the project she claims? Someone has applied for a position in my department, who I will interview today. In looking at their LinkedIn profile, they claim to have worked on a project with which I am intimately familiar (at a previous company), and I don’t recall their involvement. Should I interview this person, or should I point out the inconsistency to the hiring manager, or contact HR, or …? There is a possibility that I simply do not remember the person, so should I reach out to people at the previous company and ask whether they remember this person? Start by asking the person about it when you interview her. Ask about her role and the work she did and see what she says. If it sounds off to you, then yeah, at that point I’d reach out your former colleagues to see if you can verify what the candidate is telling you — but it’ll be more effective to do that once you know exactly what she’s saying she did. It’s also okay to be up-front with the candidate that you’re familiar with the project and explain whatever your own involvement was. Not in a “gotcha” way, but in the normal way you’d do it if it you didn’t have any suspicions. That may or may not lead to any further light being shed on the situation, but it can make it more likely. – 2017 You may also like:my company wants us to meditate and do yoga and alternative healingwill a job candidate who used to be in charge really be OK with a non-management job?when I asked for a raise, my boss said I was ungrateful and threw a tantrum { 253 comments }
4th of July open thread by Alison Green on July 4, 2024 It’s a holiday! This comment section is open for any discussion you’d like to have with other readers. You may also like:the XL gloves, the eyeball embalmers, and other stories of office supply obsessions run amokinterview with a household manager for rich peoplethe flasher, the scathing tirade, and other stories of magnificent rage-quits { 864 comments }
the burnt bagel, the excessive candor, and other reply-all email catastrophes by Alison Green on July 3, 2024 It’s the day before a long weekend and I expect traffic to plummet, so to send you off into the holiday with something fun, here are 10 11 reply-all horror stories that have been shared here over the years. 1. The burnt bagel My first or two week at a new job, someone burned a bagel in the toaster, which resulted in the firm alarm going off. Those toasters really needed to be watched closely, because things would barely toast at all some days, and on others, it would burn (settings were not toggled different ways, it was just an old POS) so it really didn’t take a lot. Food burning in either the microwave or toaster and fire alarms going off happened at least once a month, so that in of itself was nothing special. However, for some reason, someone got really invested in knowing who burned the bagel. They sent a company-wide email (100+ people) titled “Who burned the bagel?” and included a picture they googled of a burned bagel and a description of how badly it stunk up their space. Before long, there were dozens of responses speculating on who burned the bagel, how many times bagels had been burned, plenty of “OMG LOL” type of replies, and comments on the smell. It got so bad a manager finally replied all, “These emails are immature and need to stop. Thank you.” 2. The resignation An employee emailed their resignation to the entire company (over 10,000 people) with a bullet point list of all the ways they hated their job, their boss, management, and the company. It was hilarious – we received thousands of reply-all emails and servers were crashing. Upper management was sent around each floor to tell people to stop and that they would be fired for responding at this point. A coworker kept a printed copy of that email on his wall for years. 3. The candor My two favorite reply-all incidents happened when I worked at a large university. It used to send out all-staff update emails each evening at about 10pm. One Friday evening, one particular member of staff had clearly been drinking heavily at the point that these emails started arriving, and replied all saying, “You don’t pay me enough to give a f*ck about this.” The other was on a global researchers mailing list where someone thought they were sending a message to a friend but accidentally included the whole list saying, “Personally, I’ve never thought much of Jane Doe.” Obviously Jane Doe was on the list, as were many of her friends and colleagues. There quickly followed a desperate follow-up email saying, “When I said I’ve never thought much of her, I mean I’ve never thought about her much because our research areas don’t coincide.” We all knew the truth though. 4. The robes When I was a student, an email got sent out to the entire graduating year (at least 6,000 students) about the deadline to order academic robes for graduation. One student missed the deadline and replied to all 6,000 explaining that he had been busy with his job but please please could they make an exception to let him get his robes. The result was a reply-all campaign where half the student body pitched in to convince the organisers to let him get his robes. There was a hashtag and everything. In the end, he was allowed to order them and during the graduation ceremony when his name was announced he got a special cheer from all the students who recognised the name. 5. The accident My favorite involved an embarrassing email that the sender (a woman) meant to send to just one friend, but accidentally sent to the entire listserv. She mentioned in the email that she needed to get “a bit of ass” that weekend. Hilariously, in addition to all the “remove me from this list” and “stop replying all” comments, there were also many replies from people who were offended by the raunchiness of the email and demanded to unsubscribe … as if this poor woman had sent it on purpose!! lol 6. The latecomer This happened at my workplace about a year ago! I would wager that around 2,000 people were involved with this reply-all and it went through the usual 3-4 days of “This isn’t for me,” then “Stop replying all,” then “Stop replying to tell people to stop replying all,” and then finally died down. Cue two weeks later, some guy known to be kind of a self-important douche replies all saying he just returned from vacation and noticed this in his inbox and that while the matter was almost certainly resolved by now, the person who sent it should feel consolation that we’ve all made this mistake before (as an aside, no … we haven’t) and he’s sure their reputation will heal in time. Immediately, a partner replies back “DO NOT REPLY TO THIS.” 7. The oil painting We had a rash of these events, several in the course of a few weeks; some sensors covering medicine storage areas were being updated one by one, and occasionally an “incorrect data” notification went out to the thousands of people in the temp-monitoring group. The third time this happened, a doctor of rheumatology in the group immediately responded with a beautiful, AI-rendered, oil-paint-style image of an office flooded by emails. Water was pouring into an office area, but that water was carrying a tide of little white “new email” envelope icons. Haggard-looking office workers try to bail out their cubicles, tossing buckets of envelopes back into the sea whilst their monitors all mock them by displaying that same icon, blown up to fit each screen. One employee hunches over in a rowboat, attempting to stay afloat atop the unstable surface. Rather ominously, some kind of rudimentary face, with red, glowing eyes and mouth, watches in apparent satisfaction from the stormy clouds above. It’s now my desktop background. His email didn’t stop the flood, but by George, it was a good effort. 8. The legal threat The best I encountered recently was on a mailing list for a volunteer group. Tons of people replying all imploring others not to reply all; a couple brave souls pointing out that this was a mailing list and there was no reply all option, so the only way to kill the thread was for people to just stop replying; and one person threatening legal action (!!) if people didn’t stop emailing her. 9. The karma When we got a mass email once, I sent a response to my work-friend: “Oh great, a mass email. Now all our inboxes are going to get inundated with reply-all’s. Just you wait.” The kicker: I’d accidentally hit “reply-all.” *hangs head in shame* 10. The hero I once intentionally created a reply-all nightmare because, sometimes, you just gotta do what you gotta do. I work in a field which is overwhelmingly lead by white men, even though the majority of college graduates are women. Women don’t make it to the top. The firm sent out a “culture survey” to the only predominately female department, seeking input on ways to improve the department culture, with suggestions like (I. Kid. You. Not.) book clubs, knitting clubs, cooking clubs … all after hours, unpaid labor in order to “improve culture.” My reply-all: “We are professionals, and therefore improving culture should be through professional channels such as: appropriate (i.e. equal) pay, benefits, professional development opportunities, supportive management, interesting work assignments, etc. If the culture of the department needs improvement, asking us to put in more unpaid time to read books and watch movies together will not fix it.” The replies went on for about an hour and a half and I regret nothing. 11. The pot pie (a late-breaking addition!) In the early days of email, my roommate worked at a global company–thousands of employees with offices all over the world. Someone’s pot pie was stolen from the freezer in the DC office and naturally, he was furious about it. So he sent an all-company rant demanding to be reimbursed. To every office around the world. The reply-alls flooded in. Some people had never heard of a pot pie; luckily folks stepped in, eager to explain the magic of the pot pie and share recipes. Some missed the pot pies of their youth and wondered if anyone knew where to find them in their region. Some thought the dollar amount requested was outrageous for a pot pie. Some couldn’t believe he would eat a frozen pot pie instead of making one from scratch. And why on earth did he get turkey instead of chicken?! Entire conversations grew from this pot pie. Friendships and alliances were formed, enemies were made. My roommate would forward updates throughout the day and we would spend the evening rehashing the top pot pie stories. This was at least 20 years ago and we still laugh about it. Best part? Weeks after the flurry had died down and the pot pie had been forgotten, someone came back from vacation and replied-all to let everyone know how unhealthy pot pies are. Which reminded the victim that he had still not been reimbursed. And so it began again. 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pushing back on unreasonable reference requests: a success story by Alison Green on July 3, 2024 Here’s a success story from a reader. I just wanted to share a quick success I had today. I’ve seen a lot of comments/posts on your site about reference companies that are very pushy about trying to get their long surveys completed. I got an email this morning asking me to provide four references to SkillSurvey, and it sounded like one of companies that have demonstrated concerning behavior, so I did a little more research and, in addition to an onerous process, they also use the information provided for targeted ads. That was a hard no for me — my references are doing me a favor, I’m not repaying that by getting them spammed. The thing is, I applied for this job just because it seemed interesting, not because I’m actively looking, so if it doesn’t work out, that’s okay. I emailed the HR contact, laid out the reasons I’m uncomfortable providing SkillSurvey with any information, and said I’d provide my references to them directly, but understood if we couldn’t move forward. The hiring manager called (not knowing about my message) and I gave a rundown and said I didn’t want to waste their time scheduling an interview if HR was going to say I was ineligible. They told me they were ultimately in charge, they wanted me to come in, and they’d work it out with HR if I was their final pick. I don’t think I ever would’ve thought to push back on something like that if I hadn’t been reading your site for so long. I always thought I had to accept whatever was asked of me as a candidate, so I just wanted to say thank you for giving people a place to learn how and when to speak up. Maybe they won’t stop using SkillSurvey, but at least there’s a chance they’ll look at it a little more in-depth now. You may also like:I think my nanny candidate used a fake referenceyou should ask for more money when you get a job offer. here's how.a real-life salary negotiation success story { 73 comments }
do I need to ensure my nipples are never visible through my work clothes? by Alison Green on July 3, 2024 A reader writes: I am a mid-40’s woman working in an office setting at a university and would describe our dress code as office casual. I don’t dress in a manner that might be considered revealing or sexy, but have protruding nipples which are visible through my shirt regardless of whether it is cold or not. Thick fabrics do not disguise this; there is always a little bump. I would have to wear thickly padded bras to cover it up, or nipple covers. Both of those options are uncomfortable. I prefer something more akin to a sports bra as I have large breasts, and even if I wear an underwire bra I do not want it to be padded as it would likely make my breasts appear enormous. Additionally, I get warm very easily, so I’m not wearing bulky clothes, large sweaters, or blazers most of the time. Basically, I am dressed professionally, and maybe a little frumpily, with no cleavage out. Still my nipples are sometimes obvious if you look at my chest. Do I have to cover them up? It feels to me like it would be borderline body shaming to be asked to do so since this is just how I am built. No, you don’t have to cover them up. If you’re comfortable, you’re fine. Realistically, might there be people who have Thoughts about your nipples making their existence known through your clothing? Yes. That doesn’t make it unprofessional for you to possess them, or for you to decline to wear extra layers solely to hide them. (And really, there are people who will have Thoughts about women’s bodies no matter what you are wearing.) Because we live in the world we live in, I do need to say that it’s possible that some of those people will think you are being less polished or less professional than they believe you should be. How much that matters will depend on your industry, the nature of your job, how much power those people have over your career, and how much you care about what they think. There are fields and jobs and people where their opinions wouldn’t matter at all; there are others where they could. (Fewer of the latter than the former, and increasingly shrinking, but they exist.) As with so much about women’s appearances, it’s a calculation you’ve got to make about how much those attitudes are prevalent in your particular context and how much you care. You may also like:my work clothes are revealing more than I intendedmy employee doesn't wear a bra on Zoom meetings -- should I say anything?do I have to wear a bra when I go back to the office? { 366 comments }
“girl boss” artwork in the women’s bathrooms, interview focused on conflict with coworkers, and more by Alison Green on July 3, 2024 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. “Girl boss” artwork appeared in the women’s bathrooms A few days ago, new artwork appeared in all of the women’s bathrooms in our building (and we’ve confirmed that it’s only the women’s bathrooms). This artwork is of the inspirational “girl boss” variety, with phrases like “I am motivated to achieve my goals!” and “Work hard to achieve your dreams!” and “Stay focused!” There are also some quotes that feel religious-adjacent with words like “blessed” and “miracles” in them. Because they appear to be officially installed by facilities, I strongly suspect a somewhat new admin is to blame since she’s the one who puts in orders for things like furniture and decorations. I think this was her misguided attempt at making the bathrooms more cheerful. Except every person who uses the women’s bathrooms is cringing at the result. It comes across as totally patronizing and out-of-touch (most people in this building work in technical roles). It’s been a bit of a running joke the past few days. Do you have any suggestions for raising the issue without hurting anyone’s feelings? The last thing I want to do is get on the admin’s bad side (assuming I’m right and this was her project). Can you take it to someone who’s not the admin? Her boss, or a facilities person, or whoever manages admin stuff? You could simply say: “Some new artwork has showed up in the women’s bathrooms — and apparently only the women’s — that’s rubbing a lot of us the wrong way. It’s got religious terminology like ‘blessed’ and ‘miracles’ and some ‘girl boss’ themes that feel patronizing. Can that be removed?” I can’t guarantee the admin’s feelings won’t be hurt (if indeed it was her), but there are other factors in play here that matter more — and it’ll be useful for whoever was behind the posters to learn why they weren’t universally embraced. 2. Interviewers seemed focused on conflict with coworkers Years ago, during an extremely demoralizing job search, I was interviewing for a job in academia for which I had direct, extensive experience. It was one of those panel interviews where the interviewers take turns asking scripted questions. There was one pretty typical question asking me to share a time I dealt with conflict with a coworker. I gave a relevant example, emphasizing how I navigated the situation and preserved the relationship with the colleague. So far, so good, and the panel asked me a couple other questions on other topics. But the following scripted question went back to conflicts with colleagues: “Tell us about a time you dealt with mistrust in a situation with a coworker.” I managed to come up with a different story, but by this point, I was wondering about the culture of that department, even though everyone I was interviewing with was pleasant and at least seemed collegial. Part of me wanted to ask about colleague interactions and what was behind their second question about mistrust. But I couldn’t think of a respectful way to ask and, truth be told, I was so desperate to get a new job that I’m not sure concerns about a toxic culture would have dissuaded me from taking the job if I’d been offered it. (Spoiler alert – I did not get the job. Rather, they hired an internal candidate from an adjacent department). In the end, I got hired at a completely different company with wonderful coworkers, so the university job was probably a bullet dodged. But I still wonder about a way I could have addressed what the panel’s questions seemed to imply. If you ever notice a theme in interview questions that makes you uneasy or even just curious, you absolutely can ask about it! The basic formula is “you’ve asked a few times about X — is there anything I should know about that?” So in this case: “You’ve asked a couple of times about conflict with coworkers. Has that been something that’s come up a lot in this role?” Or maybe, “You’ve asked a couple of times about conflict with coworkers. Is that something the person in this role is likely to have particular challenges around? 3. My old job forgot to remove my social media access — can I use this to get a new job with them? It turns out I happen to know about a security issue at a large tech company. It’s not deep company secrets or anything, but I’ve realized I still have complete admin permissions on several of their social accounts. When I left this role in 2022, I emailed no fewer than five people two different times to tell them to remove me from these pages, but apparently they never did. (I only found out when checking an email folder that is normally just junk.) Technically, I can remove my own permissions (at least I used to be able to) since I’m an admin, but I didn’t because back when I still worked there I updated my own permissions once and when I let that team know they freaked out and said it should go through them. Clearly, they have not kept on top of it. Can I do anything with this? I’m currently job hunting, so part of me wants to send a letter to the manager of this team letting them know about this problem and how I have the perfect experience to manage their audits, but I have no idea if that is a bonkers idea or would come across like a threat. I can do that anyway, just to let them know without any request or expectation, I guess. Or part of me thinks that this information should be worth something (even though it’s just stupidity on their part). I’m not sure what I’m asking, maybe going on 15 months without a job has made me desperate, but if you have any thoughts for me I would appreciate it! You can’t use it to get a job. It’s just a slip-up their side, and noticing it isn’t really a qualification on your side, or at least not enough of one that it wouldn’t look weird to try to use it that way. Email the manager of the team and explain you noticed that you still have admin permissions, despite reminding them to remove you two years ago, and so your current plan is to remove yourself if they haven’t done so by (date) and you wanted to alert her so it doesn’t raise any alarms if they see you do that, and also so she’s aware there’s a security hole they might need to plug with other people too. Then, if that date comes and they haven’t removed you, remove yourself. If that email provides an opening for you to mention you’re job searching and would love to talk about working with them again, you can use that — but that’s about the relationship you already have, not any kind of “gotcha” from their mistake. 4. Manager says we can only speak English at work I work with a very diverse group of coworkers; more than half speak English as their second language. I’d say about half speak language A as their first language, a quarter speak language B as their first language, and a quarter speak English only.) During a recent meeting, our manager reminded everyone that English is the only language we should be speaking at work. I know that insisting people speak English only is wrong, but are the rules different at work? Does it make a difference if it’s in front of other employees versus in front of clients? What about two employees speaking privately versus five employees speaking in a shared language in front of one employee who doesn’t? I’m one of the few English-only employees so I didn’t feel comfortable judging and am planning on leaving soon for unrelated reasons, so I’m not planning on doing anything. I’m just curious about your take. (I don’t know if it makes a difference, but my manager speaks English as a second language but does not speak language A.) Employers can’t legally prohibit employees from speaking in another language unless if it’s justified by a business necessity, like when they’re waiting on English-speaking customers or doing team projects where an English-only rule will promote efficiency, or to allow a manager who only speaks English to monitor the performance of employees whose job involves communicating with others. So your manager’s blanket edict violates federal law. 5. Should I leave a short job off my resume? I am in my late 50s, nowhere near able to afford retirement, and I can’t pay insurance out of pocket forever. After a short career in IT, I switched to nursing where I stayed 30+ years at one large university hospital. I stepped away in 2022 for complicated reasons, and now I’m trying to get back to work. I am curious what you think of a late-career job seeker leaving a short-term position off the resume. Which is worse, a two-year gap, or the same gap with a two-month job in the middle of it? Or does it even matter at this point? Since leaving the long-term job, I’ve submitted hundreds of applications and had maybe 10-15 that made it to screening calls or were forwarded for department consideration, a handful of actual interviews, and two job offers. One I turned down because when shadowing at the facility, I found it so far out of reasonable regulatory compliance, I ran far away. With the second one, the job I wish to omit, there was a disconnect between what I was hired for and what they expected me to do. There was also a lot of information withholding in the department, a weird hazing vibe, leadership was rarely available by any means, and the final straw: I witnessed my supervisor-ish unofficial trainer verbally and physically assault another newish coworker over a made-up mistake. The coworker begged me not to report it because they were in the middle of trying to transfer to another department and didn’t want anything to mess that up. I resigned the next day. Total time there including notice: 8 weeks. I left eligible for rehire, good terms, I was able to bite my tongue and cite a reasonable explanation. I’m keeping my resume as current and relevant as possible. I’ve had an outside resume expert review it. I pull out specific accomplishments from my tenure at the long-term job and tailor to fit each application. I’ve followed some suggestions to utilize AI to glean key words from job descriptions and further refine each application when needed. And I of course don’t cite the above toxic explanation when recruiters or applications ask for a reason for leaving – I say that I left to focus on the care of an ill family member. This, coincidentally, was true enough, and the reason I cited in my resignation. Since including this eight-week-long position, interest in my applications seems down. This could be coincidence. I am considering taking it off the resume/applications. Any advice? Take it off. Leaving after eight weeks raises a lot of questions, and you weren’t there long enough to have had accomplishments that would strengthen your resume enough to overcome those questions. Even with your explanation that you left to take care of an ill family member, the job is a weird blip that’s not helping you and is probably hurting. You’ve either got a two-year gap or a nearly-two-year gap with an eight-week stint that abruptly ended. The gap on its own is better. 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my coworker disrupts meetings and explodes or freezes us out if she’s angry by Alison Green on July 2, 2024 A reader writes: I work on a four-person core team, and we have a standing weekly meeting that is required of every team in our organization. We are all of equal standing and all have at least a decade of experience in our field. Occasionally a supervisor will come to these meetings, but often it’s the four core, plus a specialist or two who have info to share. One team member, Jade, is derailing these meetings. She comes late, won’t stay on topic, talks about personal issues over the actual meeting conversations, makes phone calls, orders food, checks her bank account, and then wants us to repeat ourselves and catch her up multiple times in the course of a meeting. She is explosive when confronted, no matter how nice you are, but we can’t continue this way, so our team lead bit the bullet and had a private conversation with her. It went exactly as expected — explosive, deflection of responsibility, accusations of us talking behind her back and ganging up on her, all things she’s had other colleagues do in the past. It’s a recurring problem for her, but she’s not able to reflect and see that her behaviors are the issue and will continue to follow her. She thinks she’s “just loud,” but she’s terrifying when she gets “loud.” Now that our team lead has let her know that we’re all frustrated, I’m expecting either a big freeze-out or a massive explosion. How do we continue to do our jobs and have these meetings with a coworker like this? I don’t even want to have a conversation with her now because I’ve seen how she treats other people and I don’t want to be her next target. Our boss is pretty powerless to fire her despite numerous complaints from clients and other coworkers about her explosiveness, and we don’t hate her, we just want her to stay on task and help us get our work done. And not yell when we ask her to stay on task. This is a management problem more than it’s a Jade problem. Or at least it is if they know about it. It sounds like your four-person core team functions pretty independently. Does your manager — not just your team lead but your manager — know about the issues with Jade? And not just “is broadly aware that Jade is difficult,” but is she actively aware that Jade is currently disrupting meetings and either freezing out or exploding at people? If she’s aware of that and choosing to do nothing — or addressing it but wimpily enough that nothing changes — then this is on your boss for not doing a basic part of her job, which should include laying out very clearly for Jade that her behavior is unacceptable and needs to change and then enforcing consequences if it doesn’t. You said your boss is powerless to fire her despite multiple complaints, and I’m curious why that is. Is Jade protected by someone above her? Or is your manager just a weak boss who won’t do the work of managing her? Even if your boss’s hands are truly tied when it comes to firing her (which often really just means “not willing to jump through the bureaucratic hoops it would take” or “not willing to make the case for firing her to someone higher up”), she should still be intervening much more actively — for example, sitting in on more of your meetings and calling Jade out when she’s derailing them, speaking to her after every unacceptable incident, etc. If you’re dealing with a wimpy boss, sometimes you can move that kind of manager to action by making it more painful for them to do nothing — meaning that you alert them every time Jade misbehaves and ask them to handle it. Make it as much their problem as you can: “Jade blew up in today’s meeting — can you please speak with her?” … “Can you sit in on today’s meeting so it doesn’t go off the rails again?” … “Jade refuses to speak to me and I need info on X — what do you want me to do?” … etc. You can also decide you don’t care if Jade freezes you out or explodes. I realize ignoring an explosion is easier said than done, but assuming you don’t fear actual physical violence from her, what would happen if you all just … ignored her? Or left the room? Ideally the group of you would also call Jade out when she’s disrupting meetings — such as by telling her to go to another room if she’s going to make a phone call, cutting off her off-topic monologues and saying you need to stick to the agenda, declining to continually update her when she wasn’t paying attention, etc. I assume that’s not happening because everyone is afraid of her, but there’s power in deciding as a group that you’re not going to let her manipulate you that way and will be asserting that no, she can’t disrupt meetings anymore. If it brings this all to a head in a huge blow-out, which it might … well, that might be useful in finally getting some of this addressed. You may also like:someone is always crying in our morning meetingswe're supposed to do ice-breakers at every single meeting, even routine onesI can't seem to stop being late to meetings { 168 comments }
should I address the feedback from an anonymous survey? by Alison Green on July 2, 2024 A reader writes: My company did an employee survey. It really was anonymous (no names and anything that could be de-anonymizing was scrubbed from the results I can see) but my department is small enough that I have a good idea about who gave each rating, including who gave a tiny bit of negative feedback about me. I absolutely don’t want to be that manager who is like “Who did it?! You’re wrong!” but I did want to talk to that person as they were neutral on how much they felt they could disagree with me. It wasn’t even negative, just not the higher scores everyone else gave. I’m not really sure I see any way to say “I disagree that you can’t disagree with me” because I fully understand how ridiculous that is. But I’ve always had pretty open, feedback-filled relationships with the members of my team and I just want to make sure everyone knows they really can bring things up to me and I’m always going to listen and consider. I won’t always agree, but we’ll always discuss it. Is there a way I could bring this up? Or should I just let it go? I answer this question — and three others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here. Other questions I’m answering there today include: I don’t want coworkers to call my personal cell Non-reciprocal networkers Start date and losing a bonus at my current job You may also like:my boss is trying to find out who wrote an anonymous sexism reportmy company's survey questions are awfully intrusive -- are they really anonymous?my boss won’t talk to me and gave me a document of anonymous criticism { 196 comments }
my coworker asked out a coworker, got turned down, and now won’t stop badmouthing her by Alison Green on July 2, 2024 A reader writes: I have a group of coworkers who I am rather friendly with. About a year ago, one of the members of this group (Josh) developed a crush on another employee who is not part of our social circle (Tiffany). Eventually he asked her out, but she declined. Josh was outwardly calm and appeared to take it well and have no hard feelings. For a while, it seemed that the situation was done and over with. However, in recent months Josh has started showing a frighteningly hostile attitude towards Tiffany. He has never confronted her directly, but frequently vents his negative feelings about her towards other people. On multiple occasions, he claimed that she intentionally withheld work-related information from him. This arguably has happened once or twice, as opposed to the five or six times he alleged, and seemed to be a genuine mistake. Due to the nature of our work, sometimes it can be unclear which parts of the project should involve which people. After learning that her salary was higher than his, he made dozens of bitter remarks about how unfair this is. He insisted that the quality of her work is overrated, and that “being pretty” and “hitting on the CEO” were the reasons why. It is true that Tiffany is a conventionally attractive woman and is one of the more extroverted and gregarious people in the office. But it’s a stretch to say that she is being flirtatious. One of Josh’s more outlandish accusations was that Tiffany is a “liar and hypocrite” because she offhandedly mentioned in breakroom chitchat that she believes in DEI initiatives but the following week he saw her eating Chick-Fil-A for lunch. This is making me very uncomfortable. Josh used to be really nice and easygoing, but has become so belligerent. Even people who aren’t aware of the history (and even some people who aren’t particularly fond of Tiffany themselves) have noticed that he is unhappy with just about every single thing that she does, and that he is constantly looking for reasons to malign her. Josh always doubles down and insists that his recent behavior has nothing to do with her rejecting his advances, and that he is completely over that crush. I don’t think I have sufficient grounds to escalate this to our manager, since I am not the target of this negativity. Furthermore, Josh has not actually done or said anything to Tiffany and is merely complaining about her. However, many of us are feeling like we have to walk on eggshells around him, and his constantly approaching people to vent about Tiffany is really bringing down the mood. Should I say anything? You absolutely have sufficient grounds to escalate this to your manager and HR. Josh appears to be retaliating against a colleague for rejecting his advances. That’s sexual harassment and it’s a really big deal. In fact, I’d argue that you have not only the standing to escalate it, but also an obligation to. Even if Josh is telling the truth that his hostility against Tiffany has nothing to do with her turning him down, he still seems to be engaged in an aggressive campaign of vitriol against a colleague, and that itself is concerning. In addition, his comments about Tiffany’s looks and her relationship with the CEO are offensive and insulting and take it pretty damn close to sexual harassment all on their own (and potentially all the way there). When you include the rejection history on top of that, Josh’s behavior is frankly frightening. I hope the rest of you are telling Josh to STFU when he starts in on Tiffany — but please take it a step further and alert someone above you to the entire history. This is not okay. You may also like:a creepy customer complained my employees aren't friendly enoughmy coworker told everyone we're married ... we're not even datingmy employee isn't respected by his coworkers -- what can I do? { 462 comments }
my coworker wears pro-gun t-shirts, custodian brings me food, and more by Alison Green on July 2, 2024 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. My coworker wears pro-gun t-shirts I work at a financial/banking company where we have a “dress for your day” dress code. Most internal employees wear jeans everyday. My coworker has started to wear NRA apparel in the office. He’s always struck me as an odd person so I have tried to avoid him, but the shirts make me uncomfortable. I abhor guns and think the second amendment should be repealed (I am realistic enough to know that is unlikely). Is this something I can make a complaint to HR about? Yes. And not just because it’s guns, but because any shirt with a controversial political message is a bad choice for work and most companies (and particularly companies in conservative industries like banking) prohibit them. If it turns out they don’t care, then so be it, but it’s likely enough that they do that it’s reasonable to flag. Related: should I put my politics on display at work? 2. Custodian brings me food, and I want to turn down some but not all of it I work with a very small staff at a nonprofit, and we just hired a new custodian who is wonderful! She also runs a catering business on the side. Many mornings, she will bring us breakfast. This might be homemade foods from her catering business, but it also might be a fast food breakfast she bought on her way in. She’s even inquired about people’s dietary restrictions and accommodates them. She does not ask before bringing food, but simply shows up with it. The thing is, while this is very kind, I’m uncomfortable with this person bringing me food she bought! First of all, I don’t love the idea of a person who makes significantly less than me bringing me purchased food, but also, I’m not a big fast food person. But at the same time, the homemade catering treats are really nice and don’t cost the custodian extra (because they’re leftover from gigs she worked, so she was paid to make them). Can you think of any way to convey, “It’s very kind of you to bring food, and I’m happy to take leftovers you’re going to throw away otherwise, but please don’t buy me meals from other vendors anymore”? We always make sure she’s included in staff lunches, etc., even though she works different hours than the rest of us, and I’ve brought her my own homemade treats a couple of times. If the only thing to do at this point is put the kibbosh on her bringing me any food, I’ll do it, but I was wondering if it’s possible to thread this needle. You could try, “I will happily eat catering leftovers if they’ll otherwise go to waste, but please don’t spend money buying me anything — I don’t feel right accepting that.” Or you could just say, “I love your catering leftovers, but I’m not a big fast food person.” But really, whoever manages her should talk to her and say it’s incredibly kind of her to bring in food for people, but they don’t want her to spend her own money feeding the office. 3. I was asked to give negative feedback on my coworker I joined my company about a year ago, at the lowest tier on our team. I have received great performance reviews and expect to be promoted soon. In anticipation of this, the team lead has hired another person at my level, Emily. In the few months that she has been on the team, Emily has not met expectations: she struggles to finish work on time and leaves the office early. When I tried to train her on one of my projects, she struggled to do basic computer tasks, like copying and pasting data between spreadsheets. There is an unsaid feeling in the office that Emily is incompetent, but nothing has been done up until this point. A few days ago, I received an email from the team lead. In the message, she began by writing, “Emily has received negative feedback” and asked me to provide an example of working with Emily that detailed 1) how long it took to train her and support her 2) if the work was done on time/correctly 3) how long this process would have taken me and 4) screenshots of messages between Emily and me about the project. The email stated that this information would be referenced in a meeting with HR and Emily for her “success plan,” which I assume is a PIP. This email made me extremely uncomfortable. I am not Emily’s supervisor — I have the same title and ostensibly the same responsibilities/pay that she does. I believe that this asks too much of me, and it creates a weird power dynamic on the team. I can’t imagine Emily facing people in the office after she hears specific details of their interactions (or even sees screenshots of private messages) in her meeting with HR. Additionally, the email suggests that if you do not meet expectations, your coworkers will be solicited for dirt on your behavior. The email requested a very prompt response, and so I provided a vague rundown of a project that I worked on with Emily, but I did not relay any incriminating details. I am already looking for another job because of other managerial issues on this team, but I want to ask if you have the same reaction that I do. Is this inappropriate? I regret even responding at all, and am weighing whether to tell my team lead that I thought she put me in an uncomfortable position. How could I approach the lead about this? Yeah, this is a weird way for them to do it. To be clear, it’s very normal for a manager who has concerns about someone’s performance to talk with others who work with the person for their impressions; sometimes that’s necessary and the only way to get enough information about how someone is doing. But that should be done discreetly, and it’s generally a conversation, not the sort of interrogatory email you received. I think you would have felt differently about this if your manager or team lead had met one-on-one with you and asked, “What’s your sense of how Emily’s doing?” and “Where are the areas where you think she needs more support?” You still might have felt uncomfortable, because it can be awkward to be asked for info that you know won’t reflect well on someone! But I don’t think it would have left with you the feeling you have now. That said, it sounds as if you might object to being asked at all. There are jobs where to get a complete picture of someone’s performance, you do need input from colleagues, and if you frame your concern around that part of it, you’ll likely come across as a little naive. But you could certainly talk to them about the way they did it — although since it sounds like there are other problems with the management there which have already driven you to job-search, it might make more sense to just chalk this up as more of the same. 4. Is it normal to include an expiration date with a job offer? Is it normal to write an expiration on an offer letter? The last few people we’ve offered positions to (whether they have ended up accepting or not) seem to blanch when we tell them – and we are up-front about it when we make the verbal offer. (“We enjoyed meeting you, we think you’d be a good fit, we’d like to offer you the job and will send out a formal offer letter today with the details, just so you know, there is an expiration on the offer.”) I set the expiration at seven days. There is a shortage in our industry, and I know every qualified candidate has multiple offers right now. I think seven days to let me know whether or not you want the job is more than fair – or to come back with questions or counteroffers. But I’m not an HR person. We’re a small business so the responsibilities fall on me, but I have no formal training or anything. This is what my predecessor did, so it’s what I do. Am I wrong here? It’s not unusual to set a deadline for when you need an answer by, and a week is pretty reasonable in most fields. But the more relevant question is whether the practice is working for you. If you’re hiring a majority of the candidates you want to hire, then it is. If you’re not — and especially if you’re getting feedback indicating that the expiration date is part of the issue — then you’d want to re-think. In the latter case, you could make the timeline less of a formal one: instead of including an expiration date in the offer letter, try simply saying during the offer conversation itself, “Ideally we’d like your answer by (date) — is that doable on your end?” That way you can have more of a conversation about what their hesitances around that date are, if they have them. For what it’s worth, I’ve never used formal offer expiration dates and lots of employers don’t. So if you’re doing it purely because your predecessor did, feel free to change things up. Related: how long should I give a candidate to think over a job offer? 5. Should my resume include an award for a project after I left? A project I worked on for about a year received an award after I went on leave. Should I include the award on my resume? If you can talk in concrete terms about your contributions to the project and you were there for a signifiant amount of the work, not just the planning stages, yes! You may also like:I'm distracted by my coworker's very visible cleavageour job candidates show up in ultra-casual interview attiream I being a dress code snob? { 303 comments }