did I scare off a new member of our professional organization? by Alison Green on February 18, 2025 A reader writes: This isn’t for my job, but it’s for a nonprofit organization related to my career that involves some level of professionalism. I’m afraid that I scared off a new member by coming on too strong to her. I volunteer at a STEM-related organization that mentors children. My position is at the state level, and a new person just joined at the group level. I met her for the first time at a regular group meeting. I’ll admit, I’m really attracted to her, but I still wanted to get to know her regardless of whether or not she’s interested. She’s the only other woman I know who’s in my field with some of the same interests I have, and she’s incredibly driven and smart. But I only got to see her for an hour, so I had no real chance to get to know her. She put her number into my phone, and when I texted my name to her, it showed up on her screen. Here are the texts I’ve sent her since: [Day we met, T+0] [STEM-related meme] Hey just wanted to say it was great meeting you tonight :) Have you been to Teapot Museum by any chance? [T+1] The one by [location]? [T+3] Hey! Can I call you sometime today? Because there have been some new policies that Organization wants to implement that I’m worried could affect what you want to teach at Teapot Group. [T+6] Hi! Just wanted to let you know that Cool Teapot Event is happening on [date] that the kids might want to know about! All these text messages were labeled as “delivered” until T+8, when they all went to “read.” She didn’t reply to any of them. I had also found her on LinkedIn and sent a (still pending) request on T+9 (I haven’t done this with other members). On T+10, I invited her to a monthly Teams meeting that I schedule for our group, and she still hasn’t sent an RSVP. On T+12, I called and left a voicemail about future lessons. I’m writing this letter to you on T+14. I didn’t think much of it at first because she has a job and a master’s program that she’s probably busy with, but to not reply to any of my attempts to reach out? And although none of these are urgent, everything I sent her is related to our organization. Why wouldn’t she have replied at some point? (At this point, I’m also worried that she might not reply if there *is* something urgent.) I can understand forgetting to text back, but there were multiple chances to interact. Not to mention that our organization’s state conference is next month, and I don’t know if she knows about it. (On her end, it’s an opportunity for her to meet other members and learn things about the organization, but also a chance for me to hang out with her again.) Did I scare her off? Can I still reach out to her? Nooooo, do not reach out to her again! This is way too much contact when it’s not being returned. Really, you should have stopped after the second text (the one asking if she’d been to the museum). At that point things were in her court, and continuing to contact her was much too pushy. There are all kinds of reasons why she might not have responded. Maybe she’s really busy with other things in her life. Maybe she’s not a big texter. Maybe she meant to respond initially but forgot, and then got put off by how many texts accumulated after that. Maybe she picked up on your interest and doesn’t return it and didn’t want to engage for that reason. Maybe she thought, “Whoa, I just attended one meeting of this group to check it out and now I’m being inundated by an amount of contact I didn’t sign up for and which is disproportionate to my level of involvement.” What’s most interesting to me about your letter is that you have reached out to her eight separate times (!) without any response from her without realizing you needed to stop, and you’re still considering reaching out again! If the roles were reversed — let’s say you went to a meeting of a professional organization and someone you met there texted you six separate times over 10 days without any response from you, then tried to connect on LinkedIn, then left you a voicemail, wouldn’t that feel awfully aggressive and crowding? Like that was a level of investment from them that wasn’t warranted by the existing (minimal) relationship? I am sorry to say, there is a pretty high likelihood you have scared her off from the organization (or, well, from you). You definitely should not contact her again. You do not need to inform her about the state conference next month. If there is something urgent that she must be contacted about, someone else from the organization should do it, not you (although I’m skeptical that will come up since she has only ever attended a single meeting and may not even remain involved). You mentioned seeing the state conference as a chance to hang out with her again, but at this point you should assume that won’t happen … and if she does show up there or to another meeting (the chances of which may be quite low now), the only thing you should do is to give her a large amount of space. Do not approach her, and do not go out of your way to try to talk to her. Don’t freeze her out either, since it will make things even more uncomfortable if you seem like you’re upset; smile and say hello if you encounter her, but then leave her alone, to demonstrate that she doesn’t need to worry about you continuing to crowd her. If by some chance she is interested in getting to know you better (let’s say she was in a coma through all these messages and was delighted to find them when she awoke), your interest in getting to know her has already been made clear and she can approach you. But unless that happens, you really, really need to leave her alone from now on. 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new coworker told me to “slow down,” suing the government, and more by Alison Green on February 18, 2025 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. What if hiring a spouse is truly the best choice? I know that having a manager supervising their partner is fraught with peril — I have read enough AAM to have some great examples! But if the partner is truly the best candidate, are there guardrails you recommend? This is in a church context, and the minister’s partner is supremely qualified to be our music director. They are both being totally up-front about it, looking at alternate supervisory roles (could have a board member be the partner’s supervisor?), checking with the denomination for policy recommendations, etc. I am on the board and the hiring committee and looking for guidance. There has also a suggestion that the partner be supervised by our volunteer HR committee. This seems awful. Even if these volunteers are completely qualified as supervisors, there will be disagreements and possibly unclear chain of authority. I keep thinking of cartoons about things designed by committee. You shouldn’t hire the partner at all. Even if they’re the best candidate, hiring the minister’s partner is way too fraught! What if the person needs to be fired? Can everyone involved be 100% sure the situation won’t be dragged out in painful ways while everyone tries to avoid firing the minister’s partner? Can everyone involved be 100% sure that firing the partner won’t cause issues between the board and the minister? To say nothing of all the other issues that can come up with you hire a top person’s partner to work in the same organization? There are other candidates who don’t come with those issues. The partner is not the only music director in the world. But if you go forward with it anyway, definitely don’t have them managed by committee; that’s a recipe for ensuring they’ll receive either inadequate feedback or no feedback, issues are unlikely to be addressed in a timely manner, and they won’t have a single point person for guidance and support, and it would be unfair to them as an employee. It’ll also highlight the special nature of their situation to other employees, compounding the discomfort that’s likely to already be there. This is a bad idea all around. 2. My new coworker told me to “slow down” I recently received some feedback that I don’t know how to interpret. My coworker told me I needed to “slow down” and that “I didn’t need to prove myself because I was already on the team.” I feel like I did something wrong, but I’m not sure what. I’m getting mixed messages here because my boss told me she wanted me trained on all practice areas by April, so I’ve been busting my butt trying to learn everything. I don’t think I’ve been making any mistakes in my work, I’ve been asking good questions, and trying to take initiative on some projects. I’m not sure if this has anything to do with it, but I transitioned into this role in local government after several months of being unemployed and coming off of 8+ years in corporate roles. I’m scared to lose this job because I really enjoy it and my teammates, but “slowing down” is not really something I’m used to. Well, it’s possible that your coworker told you to slow down because you’re moving at a speed that’s out of sync with their culture and are at risk of making mistakes, overlooking important context, or alienating team members … but it’s also possible they told you that because they’re threatened by you and/or worry about being outshined. I don’t know which of those it is, but your boss will probably know and this is a good conversation to have with her. At a minimum you should sit down with her and ask for her sense of how things are going … and ideally as part of that you would share the feedback you heard and ask if she agrees with it (and maybe whether it points to any context on the team that you should be taking into account). 3. Applicant lied on resume; should I tell her boss? I am a director and recently received a resume from an employee at a partner organization. Our industry is small, and it’s common for employees to move between organizations. However, after reviewing her resume, I am certain she is misrepresenting her job duties. I am friends with the director of her current organization and recently spoke with her about this employee. She has caused significant disruption within her current organization, including issues with a program we collaborate on. The duties she listed on her resume are not ones she was responsible for. I know this because we worked with different employees on these projects. Additionally, she included several responsibilities that, according to her director, were not part of her role and even led to disciplinary action. Normally, I would not disclose to another organization that their employee is job searching. However, I also feel a sense of responsibility to inform my colleague that this employee is falsifying job duties under their name. If the situation were reversed, I would want to know. Should I tell her? No. The appropriate consequence for lying on her resume is for you not to interview or hire her; it’s not to have her job search outed to her current employer. 4. Should I tell companies I’m interviewing with that I might be suing the government? I was just fired by DOGE. I was not a probationary employee, and there is reason to believe the firing was due to political considerations and therefore illegal. I’ve been told that I may be a strong lead plaintiff for one of the class-action lawsuits that are being teed up. I am considering participating in one, for the sake of helping my fellow feds and preventing DOGE from destroying the government. In the meantime, I also need to find another job outside government. Do I disclose to potential employers that if they hire me I could end up suing the government while working for them? It could impact them in three ways: (1) I would need to take time off at various points to spend on the lawsuit; (2) I could end up in the news, and my current employer would probably be mentioned in news reports, which would be viewed as a negative by some people reading those reports; (3) if the company does work for the government, a lawsuit by one of their employees could prevent them from winning new contracts. Does the answer change if the company I’m applying to work for prefers to fly under the radar and generally tries to avoid press coverage? My instinct is that, to protect my own interests, either I shouldn’t mention it at all until I’m hired, or I shouldn’t mention it until after I have an offer in hand. But this feels icky. For people who don’t know what’s going on: Probationary employees in the federal government are being fired and are having it documented as being for “performance reasons” even when they’ve had glowing performance reviews and even when their managers oppose the firing. A slew of letters doing this to people went out on Saturday night (of all times). This is not only profoundly shitty from a human standpoint — being told you’re being fired for performance when your work has been good — but it will have practical ramifications too, since if they apply for another federal job in the future, this will come up during the background check. Anyway, you definitely shouldn’t disclose the lawsuit/potential lawsuit until you have an offer, at the earliest — at which point you could maybe frame it as, “I want to let you know about this in case it’s something that you foresee causing issues.” But I’m not even convinced you should disclose it at that point; I see a stronger argument for not disclosing it at all, until and unless something specifically related to it comes up. 5. How to treat a coworker who’s struggling at work and has been moved into a different job One of my coworkers who has been on my team has been transferred to a different role in the organization as a final Hail Mary before being fired if she doesn’t shape up. It’s going to be awkward going forward because not only are we hiring for her old position, I am moving into her old desk. I will still see her daily and I’m wondering if it’s better to just pretend there’s nothing wrong and say nothing except pleasantries when I see her, or if congratulate her on her “new role” as if I don’t know why it’s happened (even though I have known for weeks and have been part of the decision-making around moving her). She has directly been told this is her last stop at our organization. Hoping for some professional guidance! Treat her the way you would treat anyone who had just made an internal move that hadn’t been forced on them. You don’t need to congratulate her on the new job if you think that would be awkward, but otherwise try to mentally frame her in your head the exact same way you would anyone else who had simply changed roles. (Which means that you don’t need to feel weird or apologetic about having her old desk either.) 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update: anti-vax employee is pressuring a coworker not to vaccinate her baby by Alison Green on February 17, 2025 Remember the letter-writer whose anti-vax employee was pressuring a coworker not to vaccinate her baby? Here’s the update. I really appreciated your advice and several of the thoughts from the commenters as well. I have weekly one-on-ones with each member of my team, so after reading your response, I used that next meeting with Cordelia as an opportunity to step in, after taking care of our usual business. I used the framing about how if the roles were reversed, if Dawn didn’t want to vaccinate and someone was pressuring her to, I would need to shut that conversation down, because Dawn deserves to be able to come to work and not be questioned or hassled about any or all of her medical decisions … just like you, Cordelia. I would never let anyone pressure you or give you a hard time about not getting vaccinated, and now I need you to give your coworker that same respect. She teared up and said, “I just wish someone would have told me not to give my little boy all of those poisonous shots; he would still be alive now,” and then started sobbing. It was horrible. I gave her some tissues and a little bit of time. After a reasonable amount of time, I told her that I understood that Dawn’s pregnancy might have brought up a lot of really hard and painful memories for her, and that I was ready to support her in any way that was reasonable, but that did not and could not include pressuring Dawn in any way. She nodded and said that she understood. At this point, there were less than 30 minutes left in the workday, and I asked if she wanted to go ahead and leave a little bit early. She agreed, got her coat, and left work. I stayed at my desk for a few more minutes to steady myself. (I am not someone who typically makes other people cry, and even though I knew I was doing the right thing, it was still deeply unpleasant.) Once I felt like myself again, I went to Dawn’s desk to check in with her. After asking if she was okay, I said that I’m sure she had already noticed that pregnant women often get a lot of unsolicited advice and information, and that if she was ever feeling pressured or harassed by a coworker to please let me know, because that wasn’t acceptable at work. She said, “Oh, that’s why Cordelia was upset? Thanks for talking to her. I really appreciate it.” I told her I was happy to do it, that it was my job, and that I was sorry it had taken me so long to notice and put a stop to it originally, but that if there were any further issues, please let me know right away. We had our regularly scheduled one-on-one two days later, and I reiterated this point, but she said everything was good. Cordelia has seemed more or less like her usual gregarious self since them. The three of them have continued to have lunch together most days and as far as I can tell without truly egregious eavesdropping haven’t been talking about anything more serious than the weather (very cold), Taylor Swift (very talented), and Willow’s new haircut (very cute). Dawn is just a few weeks away from going on her maternity leave, and is as happy, anxious, excited, and exhausted as you might expect. As far as I can tell, this particular issue is entirely resolved. Also? Thank goodness for this blog! I am someone who ended up in this role because I was very good at doing the work that Cordelia, Willow, and Dawn are doing, so I guess my bosses figured that I would be naturally good at supervising people doing that same work. But I don’t have any previous experience with managing people, and even with just three people, it is really HARD; it doesn’t come naturally to me at all. I’m very thankful to have this collection of good advice to read, and when push really came to shove, to be able to ask my specific question. Thanks again! You may also like:anti-vax employee is pressuring a coworker not to vaccinate her babyour meetings start with instructions about breathing, interviewer told me to ask all the questions, and morea DNA test revealed the CEO is my half brother ... and he's freaking out { 155 comments }
update: my doctor’s office constantly leaves me on hold — how do I deal with this at work? by Alison Green on February 17, 2025 Remember the letter-writer whose doctor’s office constantly left them on hold while they needed to be working? Here’s the update. I wrote in a few months ago about struggling to schedule doctor’s appointments when I worked at a busy reception desk. Thanks very much to both you and the kind commenters who offered sympathy and suggestions. It was nice to receive confirmation that there wasn’t some easy solution I was missing, and I appreciated the suggestions to use an earpiece from other people who’d done front desk work. I also saw a few suggestions that my question wasn’t really a work question, which got me thinking about why I’d written in the first place. The real concern underwriting my (admittedly not well-phrased!) question was that having to make these calls was hurting my standing at work. I am (mis)classified as exempt and expected to remain available to answer the phone and address clients during my lunch. Any time I spend where I’m not visibly working as hard as possible is regarded with suspicion, and as I mentioned in the original letter, it has been suggested that I might have to start using vacation or sick time to cover these calls I have to make outside my nonexistent break time. When I wrote in I was concerned less with dealing with my doctor’s office (which I felt sucked and wasn’t going to change) and more with managing the optics/potential consequences at a workplace that, on reflection, also sucks and also isn’t going to change. So ultimately, I did resolve the doctor’s office problem with doctor’s office solutions. First, I spoke with my doctor, and they gave me permission to use the client portal’s chat functionality, which is supposed to be exclusively for non-urgent medical questions, to request appointments. But more importantly, I changed one of my medications to something I can self-administer at home instead of one I have to go to the doctor’s office multiple times a year for. This reduces the frequency of my scheduling attempts and has the added benefit of saving me sick time. I’m lucky I had this as an option. I hope this information is helpful to anyone else in a similar situation, and I hope in a future update I’ll be able to tell you I’m working somewhere different. Me again, here to say that if you’re a receptionist you’re almost certainly not legally allowed to be treated as exempt, and they owe you overtime pay (including back pay) and you should contact an employment lawyer in your state. Meanwhile, carefully log all the hours you work so there’s a record of what you’re owed. You may also like:how do you find a lawyer for workplace issues?doctor's office constantly leaves me on hold, coworker's bare-bones emails, and morehow much should I hand-hold a disorganized employee? { 65 comments }
can I use dark humor at work? by Alison Green on February 17, 2025 I’m off for the holiday, so here’s an older post from the archives. This was originally published in 2019. A reader writes: I have a dark sense of humor. I now realize that my boss does not. During a standard “how was your day off” conversation between my supervisor, manager, and a few peers, my manager mentioned that he was a chaperone for one of his kid’s field trips to Gatorland. Naturally, I asked if any of the kids on the trip got eaten by an alligator. When the response was no, I followed up with a “darn, you should get a refund” joke that everyone laughed at and then the conversation and the morning carried on. Being the day after Mardi Gras, someone from our office brought in king cake, and our manager asked if anyone found the baby. The coworker who brought it in stated she didn’t hide the baby in the cake because of the chance of someone choking on it. I then followed up with a joke that using a piece of real baby would avoid this issue, provided it’s deboned. Most of my immediate work group found this hilarious, but my manager nervously laughed and had the most concerned look on his face. I then realized the timing of this joke was just a bit later in the morning following the previous joke, and now there’s a chance my boss thinks I’m a kid-cannibal. My question is: Any tips for navigating humor in the office? Obviously everything was said and understood to be all in a joking manner, but I’m concerned he was a bit weirded out by it. While I’m sure it’s a fine line between what’s hilarious and what’s not okay in an office setting joke-wise, I’d appreciate any help (or even just any good stories) regarding this. A good guideline at work is to stay away from jokes about harm coming to things that people around you are likely to hold dear — like kids and animals — or jokes that feel mean-spirited. Dark humor at work is tricky. I don’t want to say “it’s best avoided” because I hate the idea of work stamping all individuality out of people, and often the ways that people deviate from the bland norm are what makes them interesting and likable. But the truth is … yeah, maybe it’s best avoided at work, or confined to really small quantities. (Tell one dark joke at work every few months, and you have an amusing sense of humor, provided it’s the right joke. Tell two in a single day, and you risk being the person who’s not reading the room and is making people uncomfortable.) Another thing to keep in mind at work is that you don’t know what’s going on in people’s personal lives in the way that you would with close friends. If you make a macabre joke about a baby, you don’t know if you’re saying that to someone who might have lost a child or is dealing with other struggles that will make it land really differently than you intended. And yes, some of the funniest humor is risky in some way. But you’re not really being asked to bring that kind of sharp edge to work, where your job is to get along with other people, not to entertain. Dark humor can also drag a team’s mood down. It can be exhausting to hear a lot of it if that’s not your own style (and you’ve got to assume that in any work group, there’s going to be a mix of humor styles — so some people aren’t going to like it, and are going to find it cynical/off-putting/wearying). None of this means that you have totally bland yourself down and only tell dad jokes from now on. But there’s a lot of room in between. You may also like:can I suggest a junior coworker tone down her sarcastic sense of humor?my new office has a no-humor policydo I need to have a better sense of humor at work? { 286 comments }
canceling a women’s group because of DEI concerns, can I accept a job offer on the spot, and more by Alison Green on February 17, 2025 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. Canceling a women’s group because of DEI concerns I’m a PhD student and it seems like my university is trying to cancel the Women in Computer Science networking group that I run. They’re going about it in a really weird way: rather than directly saying “this is illegal D.E.I.,” they’re trying to send us on a bureaucratic runaround to maintain the status quo of funding and booking rooms. We’re in New England, so I suspect it would be locally unpopular to bluntly state that they’re cancelling women’s groups due to D.E.I. How do I fight this? Just delay, delay, delay until this political storm blows over? Fight it head on? Go to the press? Go to your campus media, and possibly your local media. That’s outrageous. The only DEI that’s “illegal” is giving a preference to one demographic group over another; gathering to support a particular group or to discuss issues affecting them is not illegal, even under the new federal directives that have been issued. This is a crock. 2. Are minimum requirements really an absolute minimum? I’ve read your advice that it’s usually okay to apply if I meet about 80% of the qualifications for a job, but does the category of qualifications matter? When job postings split their criteria into “minimum” and “ideal,” is it fine to apply to jobs where I don’t (exactly) meet the “minimum”? For example, a job will say a candidate “must have (a) five years of experience working with Role; (b) three years of experience in Environment; (c) two years of experience doing Work; and (d) familiarity with This, That, and The Other.” And that “an ideal candidate” would also have qualities/experience (e-h). I’ll have (b-g) but (a) is iffy: say they want someone with five years experience working with C-level executives and I have five years with directors, or my relevant experience was 15 years ago in a job that isn’t on my resume because it’s otherwise completely unrelated to my current career. I have been applying anyway, addressing the discrepancy in the cover letter, but am I right to still apply? Yes. If you didn’t have anything near (a), then it wouldn’t make sense to apply since that’s listed as a minimum requirement. But your experience is close enough that it’s reasonable to throw your hat in the ring. It could turn out that they’re being absolute rigid about that requirement, but there’s frequently room for some flexibility of interpretation if you have all the other qualifications. You can’t really know from the outside whether that will be the case or not, but you’re close enough to it that if you’re interested, you should apply. Related: should I apply to jobs I’m not fully qualified for? 3. Taking sick leave for emotional upset I’m wondering your take on something I did a few years ago. I had something very upsetting happen in my personal life and was having a hard time focusing on work; I basically wanted to curl up and cry all day. I work remotely and had a light day — two meetings and no urgent to-dos. I went to both of the meetings but other than that didn’t do any work and used PTO to cover the hours. To me, this felt like the mental health equivalent of a bad cold. I could have powered through and worked a full day, and I would have if needed. But on that particular day I didn’t need to, so I chose to take it easy. (I was back to work the next day.) What do you think? That’s a completely legitimate use of a sick day. Mental health is part of your health! Related: what do I say when I’m calling in sick for a mental health day? 4. Can I just use the phonetic pronunciation of my name as my digital name? I have a name that’s pronounced differently from the typical pronunciation. Let’s say my name is Aron – pronounced like A-Ron, not like “Erin.” Coworkers call me A-Ron, until they see an email exchange with my name spelled Aron and now they call me “Erin.” Would it be okay if I changed my digital signature to A-Ron, so that people (coworkers and clients) will stop making their own assumptions about how to pronounce my name based on how it’s spelled? This is so frustrating to me, to have people who use to call me A-Ron, suddenly start calling me “Erin” because they saw my name in print. Does anyone care if my digital name is legally correct? Going a step further, what are the legalities when I am writing a contract? I assume that I would use the correct spelling of my name to sign. But would I place the phonetic spelling in the contract, so that people see it and continue to call me by the correct name? The phonetic pronunciation isn’t normally included in my business emails, but I do include it in my personal email account. It’s going to cause problems and confusion if you spell your name one way in emails but need it spelled a different way on official forms and contracts (or work travel arrangements that someone else makes for you, etc.). But the solution for work emails is the same solution you’re already using in personal emails: include a note with the phonetic pronunciation in your signature. So your sign-off would be: Aron Porcupine (pronunciation: A-ron) That’s not uncommon to do if you have a frequently-mispronounced name, and it should solve a lot of it. You’ll also need to be willing to correct people in the moment if they mispronounce it, though. 5. Can I accept a job offer on the spot? Can I accept a job right away if I’m sure I want it? The context: There is one university in town, and I’ve been fairly certain for several months now that (a) it’s the only place better than my current position regularly posting jobs and (2) I want to leave my current position. I’ve applied for several jobs at the university over the past year, interviewed for two before this one, and been a finalist for one, so I’ve already talked to HR about their benefits and PTO. The salary range is available online. I would have twice as much maternity leave. I already know I want the job. Assuming there are no surprises such as a lower salary than I expect, is there any reason I should delay and ask for a day or two to think it over? I am planning to negotiate salary right away if offered the job. If you already feel confident you want to accept, there are no surprises in the offer, and there are no additional questions you need answered before making up your mind, there’s no reason you can’t accept on the spot (or begin negotiations immediately)! A lot of people do that. You may also like:I'm biased against people who went to women's collegesmy coworker won't use women's namesmy company's leadership program for women excludes men { 294 comments }
weekend open thread – February 15-16, 2025 by Alison Green on February 14, 2025 the “terrified of humans” pair … curled up in my lap This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand. Here are the rules for the weekend posts. Book recommendation of the week: Piglet, by Lottie Hazell. After her fiance confesses a betrayal two weeks before their wedding, a woman becomes inexplicably ravenous. (Amazon, Bookshop) * I earn a commission if you use those links. You may also like:all of my 2023 and 2024 book recommendationsall of my book recommendations from 2015-2022the cats of AAM { 826 comments }
open thread – February 14, 2025 by Alison Green on February 14, 2025 It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers. * If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer. You may also like:our admins hate all the coffee I buy the office, but they insist I have to keep tryinga team whose boss was AWOL for 2 years is angry and resentful nowneed help finding a job? start here { 740 comments }
boss said “someone’s parents didn’t love them” about me, how to work with a former manager I can’t stand, and more by Alison Green on February 14, 2025 It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go… 1. Boss said, “Well, someone’s parents didn’t love them” about me In preparation for a team-building retreat, all employees in my department were asked to submit a baby photo for a “match the baby photo to the employee” icebreaker activity. The request for baby photos was framed as a requirement, not an opt-in request. I wasn’t able to get a baby photo because my mom is my only living family, and we are estranged. The request stirred up some *feelings* and left me feeling pretty crummy for a few days. I considered saying something to my boss about how this required activity might be a little rough for some people (for a variety of reasons!), but I decided to just be easy-going about it. Instead of a baby photo I submitted a cute baby animal picture instead. The actual retreat activity involved going through each photo individually on an overhead monitor with the group guessing who the photo belonged to. My boss was “emcee-ing” the activity with a running commentary on all the photos. My baby animal photo came up and my boss commented, “Well, someone’s parents didn’t love them” (!!!). The thing is, my boss is actually normally a really wonderful boss that I think very highly of! I know it was just a dumb off-the-cuff remark. But of course it still really hurt and has stuck with me. So my question is: should I say something to my boss? Mostly I just want to let it go. But it’s been eating away at me — I fear this is going to negatively impact the way I interact with my boss in the future. If I did say something, what would I even say? I’m sure my boss would be absolutely mortified and feel horrible if I revisit this with her. She should be mortified. That is an appropriate consequence for what she said, and it’s a fair consequence even if she is a lovely person who just had a brain blip in the moment and didn’t think about the ways that remark could land — not only for people estranged from family, but foster kids who don’t have photos from their childhood, people who experienced other trauma at that age and so their early years are not happy memories, and more. Even aside from her remark, this particular game is a bad idea to play at work for those reasons. You could say this to her: “I know you intended it to be a light-hearted comment, but it really bothered me. I don’t know if you realized how that game, and that remark, would be experienced by anyone who’s estranged from their family, or someone who grew up in foster care, or people from other rough situations. I know you’d never want to be hurtful, so I wanted to share how it landed with me.” It’s okay if she feels bad about it. Sometimes that’s how we learn lessons. 2. How do I work with a former manager I can’t stand? This is probably the pettiest question you’re getting from a federal worker right now, but: What is the absolute bare minimum of courtesy you can give to a coworker you’re now trapped in the office with since there’s no telework? For context, said coworker is my former supervisor, with whom I had such an incredibly bad relationship I got to move to another team as part of an EEO settlement. This was after she filed disciplinary charges against me, which prompted me to charge her with workplace harassment. All those proceedings are still ongoing, but she hasn’t been my supervisor for about a year. Anyway, it’s a small office and everyone knows everyone, and she and I are still in the same even smaller work unit, so I’m going to have to break my vow to never speak to her again. How can I prep so I can act professional with someone who made my life a misery for years? You do need to be civil, because it would be unprofessional not to — and that would reflect on you, not her, no matter how justified your dislike. You don’t need to socialize with her or initiate small talk, but if she says “hello” or “good morning” or similar, you need to return the greeting, and if she asks how your weekend was or otherwise initiates chat, you need to be courteous in responding. You don’t need to be warm, and you don’t need to answer with anything other than something bland and neutral, but you can’t freeze her out. A good litmus test to have in your head is: if someone who didn’t know anything about either of you or the history observed the interaction, would you appear rude or not? To mentally prepare for encountering her again, it might help to frame it for yourself as you being the bigger person: you will be civil to her because you are a professional person and she can’t change that about you, and also because you aren’t going to give her the power to make you look bad in front of others. 3. Lecturer said “fuck consent” about using AI for creative work After a decade working full-time in an office, I went back to school last year to finish my bachelor’s in art and design. In a lecture series class last week, a professional graphic designer straight-up told 200 college students that if they don’t use generative AI in their creative work, they will be irrelevant and essentially fail. He then went on to showcase professional work he and his company made using AI, and spoke about how a project that they wanted to make using only AI was “unfortunately” scrapped (for not complying with fair use laws — apparently the art they stole used was too distinctive). I am still in shock over the fact that a professional designer, with a successful company, admitted out loud with no shame that he uses AI to create the work he gets paid for. When I asked if he had any concerns about AI using artwork that has been illegally scraped from the internet, he said, and I quote, “Fuck consent.” And the professors backed him up! They said that AI is “just a tool, like a camera, or Adobe software,” and we have to “use our own moral compass” in deciding if we’ll use it or not. Astounding. For what it’s worth, I find the ethical and environmental effects of AI to be completely detrimental, and really have no respect for the lecturer or my professors in saying that these issues don’t actually matter. I’ve been pondering if I have any ethical standing to name-and-shame this company and creator, or create Google/Glassdoor reviews (anonymously). I want to, but I also wonder if using AI this casually in professional creative settings is becoming the norm. I’ve been telling everyone I know about this company, because holy crap, the blatant disregard and disrespect shown to the students who spoke up about the problems with AI was the most unprofessional thing I think I’ve ever seen. And if I were thinking of working with this graphic designer, I’d want to know if they were using AI for the work I’m paying them to create. Is this an absolutely wild urge? Am I completely out of line? I guess I’m just wanting a reality check because I feel like I have to do something to counteract the absolute insanity of the lecture. AI is becoming common in many settings, but that doesn’t mean that its use shouldn’t be disclosed to clients who presumably believe they’re paying for original and proprietary work, and it definitely doesn’t mean that artists who don’t use it will be irrelevant and fail (WTF?). Also, anyone who stands before a class of students and says “fuck consent” (on pretty much any issue I can think of, including this one) should be named and shamed, disavowed, and never invited to speak anywhere again. Your professors aren’t wrong that people have to “use their own moral compass” in deciding if they’ll use AI or not, but there are still many, many situations where its use would be objectively wrong (or even just prohibited). Maybe you can ask that your class bring in someone to speak to the counterpoint on this issue. 4. How to answer “can we contact your manager” when you have no contact information for them So my most recent, non-current job was a temporary government contract, we only spoke to our supervisors on company phones, and the contract has since been terminated and presumably most of the contractors have scattered to the four winds (very common with this type of contract). What should I put when future employers ask if they can contact a supervisor? Other than that, the most recent job I’m still at and the one before that I left about 10 years ago. So far I’ve been trying with old bosses who no longer work for my current company but there’s not many of them (and sadly, soon to be one less) so I feel like it seems a little sketch to have no recent contactable references. When applications ask if they can contact a previous supervisor, they’re asking about your permission, not how easy it will be. Answering no risks being interpreted as “I left this company on bad terms” and/or “this manager will say bad things about me.” So you should answer yes, they have your permission. Whether or not they will succeed if they try is a different question. (However, if they’re asking your permission to contact a current manager, that’s a different question and it’s fine to say no to that; that’s common since people’s managers often don’t know that they’re looking.) More here: stop saying “no” when job applications ask “can we contact this manager?” You may also like:my coworker showed us an explicit slideshow of her baby's birthmy boss excessively Photoshops herself on our company's social mediahow do I work with someone I can’t stand? { 624 comments }
hiring manager wants to fire my mentor and replace him with me by Alison Green on February 13, 2025 A reader writes: I’m in a quandary and really second-guessing a decision I made regarding an offer that was made to me a couple of weeks ago. I work for a company that makes, let’s say, teapots. I recently found out that Cersei, the director of a different teapot-making company, wants to fire her entire design team and hire me to head a brand new one. I would not only be responsible for leading the new team, but for hiring everyone in it. The complication: the current head of the to-be-fired team is my mentor of 20 years, Jaime. I found out about this when Cersei invited me to lunch and told me she would like to hire me. My initial response was that while I was flattered, I was worried about the turmoil it would create if I swooped in and took my mentor’s role without so much as a word to him. Cersei then told me that if it wasn’t me, it would be someone else, because she found Jaime difficult to work with and was just done. She also had problems with another person on his team, but liked a third. But she was prepared to clean house and start fresh with me. A little helpful background: Jaime basically paved the way for my career, and I owe him a lot. However, I am not surprised that Cersei is frustrated. He (and his colleague) have a reputation of being difficult and even toxic. I have seen them blackball people for minor perceived slights, and it’s pretty awful. As a result I have significantly distanced myself from them. I retain a friendly, if surface-level, relationship with Jaime, but his colleague and I have had no contact for years. Straightforward? Maybe, but Cersei also has a reputation — for exactly what she is trying to do right now. She is infamous for working with people and then dropping them without a word of notice, with new hires already in place. She even has a nickname in our industry: “Cersei Fires Everyone” or “CFE.” (It’s not really this, but if I told you the real one I’d out myself.) After some seriously agonized thinking I turned the role down, though I didn’t tell Cersei why. I gave a sort of “sorry, I thought I could do this but it turns out it’s not the right time” half-truth, which maybe is a cowardly way out. The truth is there is too much potential drama for me to want to go near this situation with a 10-foot pole. I also don’t need the work. I’m happily employed, and I like my current company. But now I’m second-guessing myself. Cersei is a Big Boss in my industry, and it would benefit my career to work for her. I’m also asking myself if she really is in the wrong. I mean, people are within their rights to fire employees who are difficult to work with. She will have to hire someone. Am I stupid for turning down a potentially huge career boost? Do I need a thicker skin? Though I am not close to Jaime anymore and will not make excuses for his toxic behavior, I do still feel like I owe him the respect of not taking his job out from under him. On the other hand, it’s almost certain he would not give me the same consideration. Am I overthinking all of this? Finally, I feel really upset about the third colleague, who Cersei supposedly likes but is prepared to axe with the rest of the team. I know him personally and he is a wonderful, lovely human being. I have thought about coming to him with this information. In fact, it’s crossed my mind that it would be fair to let the entire team know what’s about to happen—but I keep stopping myself because I am worried I’ll just make things worse, and I frankly don’t trust my mentor or his colleague not to create a huge problem and/or take it out on me. I understand that it’s Cersei’s responsibility to warn them, not mine — but if she continues her usual M.O., she won’t. I feel terrible knowing about this and doing nothing. What should I do? Anyone who’s working for someone who has the industry nickname “Cersei Fires Everyone” already knows their job isn’t stable. So please relieve yourself of the pressure to somehow tell Jaime or his colleague that Cersei wants to fire their team. That would be true in any case, but it’s especially true when you don’t trust them not to take it out on you. This isn’t yours to fix for them. As for second-guessing whether you should have accepted Cersei’s offer … stop second-guessing! Maybe it would have benefited your career to have worked for her, but there are all sorts of things you can do to benefit your career that don’t come with a side order of “and you could lose your job without warning at any minute, and you won’t even get the courtesy of feedback so you can see it coming.” Cersei doesn’t sound like someone you should want to work for. Given all that, the question of whether it would be wrong to accept Jaime’s job after he’s fired is moot, since you made the right call regardless. If this were a different set of facts where Cersei was a great boss and you weren’t sure if you should accept the job that a mentor of 20 years who paved the way for your career just got fired from … well, I’d be asking what you knew about Jaime and how he was likely to respond to that news. Some mentors would be absolutely fine with a mentee stepping in the job they were just fired from (especially if they were well aware of their boss’s habit of cycling through employees and figured their own time there was limited anyway) and would be horrified to be the reason you turned it down, and others would take it as a significant betrayal. So you’d need to know how Jaime was likely to see it. His reacting badly wouldn’t necessarily mean you shouldn’t take the job, but you’d want to be realistic about how it was likely to affect that relationship and factor it into your thinking. However, you have serious ethical issues with how Jaime operates and you’ve distanced yourself from him, which changes the calculus of how accepting the job might impact your relationship. But again, that’s a different set of facts. In the actual set of facts, none of this matters because you shouldn’t work for Cersei anyway. You may also like:can I ask my manager to fire my coworker?do I need to work with the woman my father had an affair with?new director got drunk on his first day { 94 comments }