do I have to fire someone due to his lack of child care? by Alison Green on May 6, 2024 A reader writes: I have an employee who is unable to obtain childcare when he is on call, which is an essential part of his job, and the job is not safe to take a child to. Therefore, we may not be able to keep him on. I supervise a team of maintenance technicians who rotate being on call 24/7 for one week every month. Being on call for emergencies is an essential part of the job, as they respond to calls such as water leaks that could cause property destruction, air conditioning calls (this is a 24/7 facility and the upper floors can get above 90 or higher degrees in the summer), lock-outs, and other urgent calls that can’t wait until business hours. We have a small team of four, so it’s essential that everyone take part in the rotation so no one is on call 24/7 too often. We make it clear to everyone before hiring them that on-call shifts are a requirement. It has recently come to light that one team member is unable to find childcare for late night emergency calls and has been taking his child with him. For very obvious reasons this is not OK, but the child is too young to leave at home. (We didn’t know this was happening until his ex-wife found out, got a court order that prevented him from both taking the kid with him and leaving him home alone, and also alerted us.) However, it’s not exactly easy to find a babysitter at 3 am when you have to rush into work immediately. His family is not always available, and it’s not like there are daycares open. It’s not fair to the rest of the team to leave him off of the emergency rotation, which is an essential part of the job, but it seems cruel to let someone go for not being able to find childcare. I am proposing we give him two months off of the rotation to figure something out. After that, I’ll have to have that difficult conversation with him. Is there an alternative that I’m missing here? We are waiting on advice from HR, but I know they’re going to tell me that he can’t remain in his position if he can’t meet the schedule requirements. This really sucks for everyone involved. You did the right thing when you ensured he knew about on-call requirement before you hired him, and you’re right not to want to shift an extra burden to his team mates. On his end, he’s undoubtedly not taking his child along for the fun of it. Finding last-minute child care in the middle of the night when you live alone would be impossible for most people. Bringing the kid with him isn’t the right solution, but it’s easy to see how someone desperate could have landed there. Would you be open to attaching an incentive to the on-call shifts to make other employees more interested in volunteering for more of them? For example, if each on-call week came with a bonus or, say, extra days off, you might be able to fully staff them without this employee, and without making the rest of your team resentful if he’s not doing them. You don’t have to do that — again, this was a requirement of the job that he agreed to up-front — but if you’re looking for a way to make this work, it’s something to consider. Otherwise, giving him two months to figure something out is reasonable. That also gives him time to job search if he thinks he’ll need to. If he’s not able to make it work by the end of that period, you wouldn’t necessarily need to fire him; you could mutually part ways on good terms. And while you wouldn’t be obligated to offer severance, you might choose to in recognition of the difficult circumstances. (Also, this probably isn’t your place to suggest, but if he wants to stay in the job, could he have his kid stay with his ex-wife on the weeks he’s on call? There may be reasons that’s not a good idea, but otherwise it might be something he could consider.) You may also like:can my company make me have child care when I work from home, wedding officiants, and morecan I wear a baby during a video interview?my coworker is bringing his kid to work and on Zoom calls ... but the rest of us are paying for child care { 615 comments }
someone emailed me about my employee’s behavior outside of work by Alison Green on May 6, 2024 A reader writes: I recently got an email from someone with screenshots concerning an employee of mine. They were of a personal nature directed to an organization outside of work using her personal time and her personal equipment. They didn’t concern work at all. They weren’t racist or hate-filled rants or anything of that nature. It was between her and her child’s school. It was sent to me semi-anonymously. I personally wouldn’t have handled the situation the way the employee did and think it could have been handled better by both parties, but I have read through the correspondence and I could care less what happened between her and the school. I also don’t have the whole story, nor is it any of my business. There were no threats made, although she used some colorful non-hate-related swear words. She also didn’t mention our company. This employee is great at her job. She is passionate and straightforward and some of her demeanor can read as adversarial, which is honestly what I pay her for. I have no complaints about her work or the person she is while she is here. I don’t know her outside of work. I am the owner and also her manager. I don’t even want to mention to her that I got the email. I just want to say it is none of my business and delete the message and forget about it. Can I just not tell her I received anything and chalk it up to this doesn’t concern me? Should I respond back to the person that this isn’t my concern (or my company’s) or is it best just to not respond at all? I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here. You may also like:someone sent our company revenge porn of our employeecan you fire someone solely for being racist?was my company right to fire my coworker for accidentally sending me a graphic email? { 171 comments }
I spent a ton of time helping 2 employees who hate each other … now they’re dating by Alison Green on May 6, 2024 A reader writes: Over the last few months, one of my people (Alice) has repeatedly come to me about conflict with a neighboring department’s person (Mary). Both are at the same fairly junior level — they’re a few years out of school. The conflict has always seemed odd, and fairly amorphous, but both Alice and Mary have been very upset, including claims of bullying and issues with sharing of materials. I observed their interactions, and they seemed somewhere between tense and rude. I coached Alice on professional behavior in the workplace, and Mary’s manager did the same with Mary. Mary’s manager and I spent a lot of energy trying to figure out what was happening, and if one of the two of these people was the aggressor. Part of the problem has always been how little reason there seemed to be for this disagreement — nothing that happened seemed to justify the outsized anger at each other. For example, Mary once told me that she could not be in the same room with Alice without blacking out with overwhelming fury. HR got involved, as did the union, and I have talked with more union reps and HR members in the last few months than I had in the preceding several years. This affected office morale enough that Mary’s manager and I have had conversations with the union about the path towards firing both of them, despite the fact that both are very high performers. This week Alice came into my office and happily told me that it had been solved: she and Mary have made up and have begun dating. This comes after a long week last week of complaints about Mary’s behavior, and a further escalation up the ranks in HR. I am furious. I don’t consider myself a person who gets angry easily, but I am there now. I coached these young women through a workplace conflict in good faith, and it turns out this was just some highschool pigtail pulling? I genuinely trusted Alice, and (while keeping open eyes about her faults) have taken the point of view that it is my job to protect my people. I have not said anything, and I don’t know what I want to say. I certainly won’t address it until I can think this through with a level head, and maybe I should just be glad everything is over and let this go. Any advice? Oh my goodness. This is like the plot of a bad movie, where two coworkers despise each other so much that their hatred finally combusts into fiery passion. I think I’ve seen that movie several times, but it doesn’t normally happen in real life. I can see why you’re frustrated, if your sense is that all of this “hatred” was some kind of juvenile flirtation or a twisted game that they drew other people’s energy and person-hours into. But … you’ve got to consider that maybe it’s not. It seems nonsensical but it’s possible, maybe even likely, that their conflict was real until something shifted. They weren’t necessarily acting in bad faith before now. Or maybe they were, but that’s not something you should try to sort out. However, it’s fair to let this affect your assessment of their maturity, judgment, and credibility. That was fair earlier on, too! Mary couldn’t be in the same room with Alice without “blacking out with overwhelming fury”? That’s a problem, regardless of their status now. And frankly, their inability to get along with each other previously — and the amount of time and energy that other people had to spend on solving it — is also still a problem; it doesn’t magically go away just because now they like each other. These are still two people who were rude, hostile, bullying, and (it sounds like) excessively dramatic. That doesn’t all get erased by them saying “never mind.” You can still hold them accountable for that. You can let them know that regardless of their feelings toward each other now, what happened gives you serious pause about their professionalism and judgment and will factor into what type of opportunities you can and can’t trust them with. For example, I’d have serious reservations about letting either of them coach a more junior employee or work with VIPs or important clients; I’d be too concerned about immaturity. That’s not because they’re now dating; it was the case before their love connection, too. If you have this conversation, make sure you emphasize that. You don’t want their takeaway to be that they’re in trouble for dating, because that’s not the issue. You may also like:I walked in on a coworker making out with our married colleague -- do I say something?is my employee trying to sabotage me?customers are ignoring our male receptionist { 323 comments }
fired employee says he’s coming to a work event, employee never saves things on our shared drive, and more by Alison Green on May 6, 2024 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. My employee never remembers to save things on our shared drive, no matter how many reminders she gets I’ve been having an issue with one of the people I manage, our document processor, Ashley. I like Ashley; she is bubbly and friendly, which is a breath of fresh air on an otherwise introverted team. But Ashley is a mediocre worker. She gets her tasks done well enough, but requires me to check in on her more frequently than anyone else on my team. I can’t just trust she will get every step every time, I have to check. That was all well and good, until a few months ago when we decided, per her suggestion, to start saving our documents in a shared drive. I loved this idea; using a shared drive is better document processing and acts as a central backup location for a team that’s very hybrid. I was excited that Ashley came up with this improvement because it shows she is taking ownership of her work. Except she just forgets to do it. Days will go by and nothing will get added to that shared drive. I check in with her and it turns out the documents are in her download folder. She moves them where they are supposed to go when I ask about it, but she does the same thing a day later. It’s completely unnecessary since you can just download things directly into the shared drive. She doesn’t need to do the extra step of moving it, something I’ve shown her many times, and yet it keeps happening. It’s driving me crazy and influencing how I feel about all of her work now. It’s such a small thing that I feel weird about putting her on a PIP or anything like that, but it’s such a small thing that I can not wrap my mind around why she won’t process documents the way I have asked her. I’ve talked to her about it a few times, and last month asked her to give me one week where I didn’t have to remind her to move things to the drive. She gave me four out of five days, and then the next week was back to forgetting every other day. Am I being crazy about this? What advice do you have to get an employee to embrace a small but fundamental change in workflow? I don’t think this is about the shared drive. I think the shared drive issue is just the most noticeable aggravation among the broader problem that you can’t trust her work and have to check every step she does. That would be a huge issue even if the shared drive had never come up. (And conversely, if she were otherwise excellent and reliable, I bet the shared drive situation wouldn’t irritate you nearly as much, although it would still be a problem.) Take your aggravation as a sign that you need to address the broader pattern with Ashley: that you can’t trust her to follow your processes across the board and that her work requires an excessive amount of oversight. You can use the shared drive as one example, but you should provide others too. Have a serious conversation about the pattern, and treat the pattern as a serious performance issue (because it is). 2. Working during a weather day that everyone else gets off I work in a small outpatient clinic, which is part of a very large healthcare system. In January, our clinic was closed down for a day due to severe weather. As soon as we got word from upper administration that we were going close, my manager texted my coworker and asked her to log in and work from home that day. At that time, my coworker was the only one of us who had access to be able to work from home. She worked very hard that day, as we had a lot of patient questions and concerns come in, due to being closed unexpectedly. The next day we were back at work, and upper admin informed us we’d be paid for the weather day, rather than having to use PTO or go without pay, which we were all happy about. But here is the problem — my poor coworker worked a full day that day, alone, and yet she got paid the same as the rest of us (just her normal, hourly wage), while we sat in our PJ’s drinking coffee and watching movies all day. I feel like she is owed some type of compensation beyond her regular pay for that day. Our direct manager agreed, but unfortunately the decision is not up to her. She has tried to advocate for my coworker to upper management. This was to no avail, as here we are now in April and my coworker still has not been compensated and has heard nothing on this matter from anyone. Am I being unreasonable here for being furious about this? In my eyes, she basically worked for free and was completely taken advantage of, since she got paid the same as the rest of us who did not work that day, through no choice or fault of her own. My coworker is a very sweet, mild mannered person and would never “ruffle feathers” or stand up for herself, so she has not aggressively followed up with anyone on this. Whereas if I were in her shoes, I would have probably resigned in anger back in January. I understand it is ultimately my coworker’s decision whether to pursue this, and I should probably mind my own business. However, I now have the ability to work from home as well. If we have another day where we close unexpectedly and my boss asks me to log in, what should I do? Would it be unreasonable to refuse until I am told how I will be compensated as compared to others who do not work that day? Am I being too inflexible or rigid in my thoughts of how this should be handled? Your coworker didn’t work for free. She was paid for that day. She did, however, miss out on the free day off that everyone else got. But the day off wasn’t a reward or a bonus; it was a logistical response to a last-minute weather emergency. This is a thing that happens with some jobs, where people who are able to work from home on snow days are expected to, and those who can’t are given the day off. Does it suck for the people who are expected to work those days? Sure. Is it something to quit over? That would be a pretty unusual reaction. (It’s also worth pointing out that there can be benefits to being able to work from home when others can’t; if often means, for example, that you don’t need to use PTO to wait for the cable person when others do, and so forth.) Now, might a thoughtful manager consider offering comp time or similar to the one person who got stuck working while everyone else got the day off? Sure. But it’s really common not to do that. You’re still allowed to be upset about it if you want, but temper it with the knowledge that this is a relatively widespread practice. 3. A disgruntled fired employee says he’s coming to a work event I’m planning I’m a middle manager in a small, quasi-governmental institution open to the public. About a month ago, my workplace fired an employee I did not supervise, Sam. There were many obvious issues with Sam, but the last incident I’m aware of was one in which he lost his temper with me on the floor. The ensuing meeting with administration left me rattled, as he made several false statements and tweaked details to make me look bad, tried to paint me as “emotional,” mocked me, and seemed to be trying to manipulate me into getting angry. Overall, he demonstrated a level of entitlement and narcissism that I have never seen before. I don’t know all of the details, but he was fired the next day. Since then, he has made multiple public statements about the firing on Facebook, including claims that he was bullied, and he’s showed up at my workplace twice, including once last week. Because we’re open to the public, I’m told we can’t ask him to leave unless he does something to violate our rules. The problem is that, in a couple weeks, my workplace is holding a major public event, which I was tasked with planning. Now I’m told that a colleague, Jane, said that Sam told her he will show up to the event and do something to “stick it to management.” I’m particularly concerned because I’ve looked up warning signs for mass shooters, and he’s demonstrated a lot of them — just not, to my knowledge, threats of violence (although I’ve heard a rumor of a suicide threat directed at someone not at our organization). Our administration is going to try to get more information from Jane before proceeding, but what should/can we do about the chance that Sam will attend this event? Is it reasonable to contact the police to ask them to be in attendance, even if Sam hasn’t made a specific threat? We don’t employ any security guards, and I am feeling extremely uncomfortable about the event. You need to insist on having security there, with an explicit safety plan. That can be police if they’re willing or it can be hired security. Make it a condition of your attendance. Read updates to this here and here. 4. What’s up with lengthy reference questionnaires? I work at a consultant firm, which means that I manage several teams of junior staff that do not report directly to me in a traditional way. A junior staff member who works on a few of my teams asked if I would act as a reference for her for a new position she is in the running for. I agreed and expected a phone call this week from the new company. This company sent me a form with seven open-ended questions on it. The questions are vague, like “tell me about the candidate’s working style” and “what are their strengths and weaknesses?” — questions that will require me to put a lot of thought in to writing, especially because I am not this person’s direct supervisor so I can’t speak to all of their work. It really feels like these would be much easier for me to answer via a call. I asked the HR team if we could do this as a call instead but they have not responded to two of my emails. I want to help this staff member get a new job, but I am feeling really annoyed that the new company is asking me to put in so much work for them. This is my first time providing a reference for someone. Is this standard and are there benefits that make having a written form preferable? Or is this the case of one company that has a bad practice? Was I out of line emailing twice to see if we could do this as a call? Some companies do references this way and it’s a terrible practice. First, as you point out, it’s a significantly larger burden on the reference; it requires a significant amount of time, versus a 10- or 15-minute phone call. Second, a lot of people won’t be as candid in writing as they will be on the phone. Third, it means that the reference-checker can’t hear things like tone of voice or spots where the reference hesitates and also can’t ask follow-up or clarifying questions. It puts you in a bad spot because you don’t want to harm your employee’s chances, but you deserve to be able to protect your time. If she’s someone you’d enthusiastically recommend, one option is to respond, “Jane is an excellent candidate and I can strongly recommend her, but my schedule doesn’t give me the time on this form would take. I can, however, do a 10- or 15-minute phone call.” You can also explain the situation to Jane and ask her to contact the employer about it and ask if they can call you. Or you can give very brief but positive answers and add “happy to elaborate in a phone call.” But it’s a crap practice. 5. How do I decline a baby shower at work? I’m an employee on a remote team that will be in person in a few weeks for a busy work event. I’ve recently shared with my manager and a few other key coworkers that I am pregnant, I will be 19 weeks when we are in person for this event. My manager, Stacey, told her manager, Lauren (I gave her permission because we’re managing some tricky staffing situations that we will need to resolve before I go on maternity leave) and now Lauren is planning a baby shower for me when we are together. I know that this is coming from a good place, but I really don’t want this. First, I hate being the center of attention. Second, I am a middle-level employee and it makes me uncomfortable that she may ask lower-level employees to contribute to a gift. Third, my sister has a two-year-old and is giving me all of her things so I don’t need very much. But the real reason is that this pregnancy has come after two years of fertility treatments including pregnancy losses and I am incredibly anxious. I’m working with a therapist, but I’m sort of just hanging on and expect that it may be a little like this the whole way through my pregnancy. The thought of celebrating feels like tempting fate. Also, the 20-week anatomy scan will be the week after I return from this trip and so I expect my anxiety will be even more heightened. Stacey has told Lauren that this isn’t something that I want, but Lauren is continuing to insist that there is a shower. How can I politely decline and stop this? Go back to Stacey and say this: “I need you to make it absolutely clear to Lauren that there cannot be a shower for me. I don’t want to have to share private information just to put a stop to it, but I I want to point out that there a lot of reasons someone might not want a shower — including fears about the pregnancy and religious prohibitions. It’s not OK to overrule pregnant people on that. How do I ensure Lauren respects my wishes on this?” (Alternately or in addition to that, you could also message Lauren directly with a similar message.) You might also alert HR that Lauren is planning this against your explicit wishes and tell them to intervene. That’s not a bad idea either way, since they clearly have some educating to do with Lauren re: the many reasons she needs to respect employees’ needs on baby showers. 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weekend open thread – May 4-5, 2024 by Alison Green on May 3, 2024 This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand. Here are the rules for the weekend posts. Book recommendation of the week: A Love Song for Ricki Wilde, by Tia Williams. A florist trying to break free from her socialite family finds a strange connection with a musician. It’s romance, but it’s also about chosen family, magic, and the Harlem Renaissance, and Tia Williams writes so beautifully. * I make a commission if you use that Amazon link. You may also like:all of my 2022 and 2023 book recommendationsall of my 2020 and 2021 book recommendationsall of my book recommendations from 2015-2019 { 996 comments }
open thread – May 3-4, 2024 by Alison Green on May 3, 2024 It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers. * If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer. You may also like:the boss who fired me got hired at my new job -- and she's joking about how bad my work wasmy boss hasn't talked to me since his drunken stripteasehere's a bunch of help finding a new job { 1,252 comments }
my employee sleeps in and misses work, can my coworkers read cursive, and more by Alison Green on May 3, 2024 It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go… 1. How do I talk to my employee about sleeping in and missing work? I have a direct report who is not a morning person. We have a hybrid schedule (two full team in-office days, remainder WFH). Our day starts at 8 to accommodate half day Fridays, which she takes. She is always last to arrive to the office, typically around 9:15, blaming traffic despite living 10 minutes from our office . She isn’t communicative/visible on Slack until late morning on WFH days. Our team has a very flexible/be-an-adult vibe, which we all appreciate and factor into planning our days/lives — it’s truly great. The issue is, she will miss meetings or join late (often still wearing her nightguard/retainer), turn in incomplete or hurried work, and has been open about accidentally sleeping in on numerous occasions (when she was “caught”). She will be managing our intern this summer, who is working hourly and thus will need to be “in” during typical work hours. Is it possible to change somebody’s sleep habits? You’re asking the wrong question! Instead, how clear have you been as her manager that she currently isn’t meeting the requirements of her job and about specifically what needs to change? How much she is or isn’t willing to try to change her sleep habits is something for her to manage; the way she shows up at work is yours. Focus on the latter. Tell her, as bluntly and clearly as possible, that she needs to arrive on time on in-office days, cannot miss meetings or join late, must be communicative and responsive on Slack at the start of work hours, and cannot turn in incomplete or hurried work (and that last one is a really big deal). This needs to be a serious conversation, where it’s clear that these aren’t suggestions or hopes; they’re requirements. You’re doing her no favor if you downplay that; she needs to understand that this has the potential to jeopardize her job — which it should — so that she takes it seriously. If she has a sleep issue that makes it impossible for her to meet those expectations, she should raise it and you can figure out what to do at that point, and whether there’s a way to structure her job and her schedule that she’s not turning in rushed or incomplete work. But right now, at this stage, your job is to be clear about what needs to change. 2. A business lunch at an ethically shady restaurant I work for a large Fortune 500 that has multiple locations in five states. My line’s VP is coming in from out of state to do a visit. The visit itself is very low concern, just a basic “Hey! How are you? How’s life? Are you happy here?” etc. However, she’s taking about a dozen of us to lunch. And here is where I have an issue. Morally, I do not spend any money at this restaurant. I used to, until they supported a person convicted of child sexual assault (multiple victims). The perpetrator was employed by them before, during, and after the trial (he’s a cousin to the owner). They did term any employee under 18 and do not hire anyone under 18. Unfortunately, we do not have a lot of “nice” options open at lunch and this place is just down the road from the office. Would it be wrong of me to bring this up to the VP, essentially stating many of us do not support this restaurant? She’s not from our area and would have no idea about this situation. Since you said many of your coworkers feel this way too, raise it! You have relevant info that she doesn’t have. For example: “You have no way of knowing this, but some of us prefer not to eat at X because of their support for a cousin of the owner convicted of really awful crimes against children. Could we go to Y or Z instead?” It’s okay if Y and Z are further away. Or if they’re unrealistically far: “What we usually do if we want somewhere nice is ____ (whatever you usually do in that situation).” 3. Break room etiquette My office has a little break room in the basement that is honestly pretty depressing. As a result, not many people tend to use it, which I think has skewed how some people use it. Within the past month, I’ve never shared it with more than one coworker at a time and these coworkers all seem to act like they’re alone. One would loudly talk to their partner on the phone the whole time, then later broke up with them while I was there! Another had a significant other make a surprise visit and they made lovey eyes at each other with me stuck as an awkward third wheel. And currently another is watching videos loudly at the table next to me. I just started sharing an office so I need to use the break room now and I dread it every day! Am I being overly critical of how they use the room? How do I learn to handle this? Someone broke up with their partner while you sat there! Amazing. I don’t think you’re wrong in thinking people should be more considerate of others who are using the space … but I also don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to take a call in the break room or sit with a visitor there, particularly if there aren’t other logical spaces to do those things. It’s actually more awkward because you’re the only other person there; it there were 20 people in there, those things would be less noticeable. The person playing loud videos is more out of line. And technically you’d be on solid ground if you wanted to say something like, “Would you be willing to use headphones while you’re watching those? My head is killing me and I came here to try to get a break from noise.” But it does seem like the culture in your office is for people to use that space for whatever kind of break they want, noise included. Any chance your office would be open to setting up a quiet room for people who want it? That sounds like it would get you more of what you want. 4. Can my younger coworkers read cursive? Recently, I’ve signed a going-away card for a colleague and I’ve passed a handwritten note to a direct report during a training. I used cursive on both, because that’s what I default to, but now I’m wondering if I should stop using cursive as a default? I really like using it because it’s pretty, but obviously I really like people being able to read what I write, too. The colleague’s a peer, age-wise, but my direct report is a recent college grad. Should I only use it with people my own age? Is there a cut-off where people are going to be more unlikely to be able to read it? I’ve been complimented on my handwriting a lot, so it’s legible if you can read cursive, but I realize that’s a dying skill. I honestly have no idea. I think cursive is pretty readable even if you can’t write it yourself, as long as it’s neatly written (and messy cursive was never all that readable to anyone anyway). But I’m incredibly old. Let’s toss this out to readers who still have more of the bloom of youth upon them and see what they say. (Also, the idea that we all used to learn basically a second font to write in is pretty fascinating.) Read an update to this letter. You may also like:I'm in trouble for leaving for a business trip without a late coworkercan I nap on my break?should I stop using my office's flex hours since my coworkers have earlier schedules? { 1,240 comments }
can I tell interviewers I’m looking for a new job because of money? by Alison Green on May 2, 2024 A reader writes: I have a job, and I think a lot about trying to find a new job. When I was previously looking for a job, the question “why are you looking to leave your current job?” came up a lot. Trying to answer that question is quite fraught. It’s challenging to say what’s wrong with the current job without sounding like a complainer. Trying to sound always professional and upbeat and very respectful of the people I work with leads to a lot of tricky dancing around actual issues inspiring me to job-hunt. One thing that I think I should be able to say this time, truthfully and without dishing on anybody or any project, is: “I could be earning more money.” I have skills in a field in which salaries are typically 50% more than what I’m earning currently. My boss tells me that the organization balks at the idea of paying anyone in my group more. After my glowing performance review last spring, I got a 1% raise — not even cost of living. I’m behind on my career progression because of having spent a lot of time being just “Mom,” but I’ve just completed a relevant master’s degree (my second master’s) to try to jump-start things. It’s not all about the money — if I loved my job, this would not make me leave; I am able to live on what I earn — but more money would make it easy to justify making a move. But a friend of mine (who has a great job, managerial-ish, at a prestigious company, so she should know what she’s talking about) says, “Don’t say that.” Rather than bluntly saying “I could be earning more money,” she suggested alluding to this issue in some much more vague, mealy-mouthed, roundabout way when I get the “why are you looking?” question. Like, “Oh, I just want to see what opportunities are out there for me.” Is this true? Why? I don’t think my current lower salary should reflect badly on me; my current job is the kind of research-focused lab work typical of STEM-field graduate students. Is it tacky to mention the money dimension of the employer-employee relationship? Are you supposed to pretend that money isn’t a consideration, that you’re just so fascinated by the work that you don’t care? (I don’t think the people hiring actually believe that, anyway. One time I tried to apply to a job that paid less than what I was earning because the work seemed really compelling, and I couldn’t convince the recruiter that I was worth interviewing further — it seemed she couldn’t believe I wouldn’t decide against the move, because of the money?) Are they going to think that, if I think about the money at all, I’m perpetually dissatisfied and will forever be jumping towards higher salary? I think that answering “I could be earning more money” conveys that I am a serious candidate, worth interviewing because they will think I am likely to take the job if they are offering more money. Also, like many female-presenting people, I should perhaps practice expecting recognition and respect. It does weed out employers who might be thinking that they would offer me only as much as I’m earning now. If there’s a potential job that has compelling other advantages (“save the world doing fascinating work in your own private office!”) then I would name those other advantages and not say anything about money. But until I see that dream-job listing … I’m allowed to want to move up to higher salary, yes? Yes. You are allowed to want a new job for a higher salary. That’s always the case, but especially when you’re earning half of what your field normally pays. It’s true that there used to be a bias against talking about money in job interviews or indicating that money is in fact the primary reason most of us work. (Witness this ridiculous post from 2013.) That was always absurd, but it’s changed significantly in the last 10 years, and particularly in the last five. “I could be earning more money” isn’t exactly the way I’d say it, though. An interviewer who wanted to really parse that might figure that you could always be earning more money no matter what job you’re in and might wonder if that means you’ll jump ship quickly if they hire you. But you could say it more like this: “I love my work, but we’re severely underpaid for the field.” “I like a lot of things about my job, but our salaries haven’t kept up with the market, so I’m looking at what else is out there.” Those are fine. Those are normal and reasonable to say. However, as a side note: I wonder if you feel a higher-than-warranted obligation to offer the complete story when an interviewer asks why you’re thinking of changing jobs. Your friend’s suggestion of “I wanted to see what other opportunities are out there” is always okay (as long as you’re not leaving after, like, six months — in which case it would raise red flags about what else might be going on). And you really don’t need to find a way to say what’s bothering you in your current job if it’s tricky to talk about; you can use a blander answer. But in this case your answer is salary, and it’s fine to say that it’s salary. You may also like:do I need to give interviewers a great reason for why I'm looking to leave my current job?how honest can I be with recruiters that money is the only reason I want to leave my current job?my company is pressuring us to donate huge amounts of money to a coworker { 166 comments }
a real-life conversation about salary with a hiring manager by Alison Green on May 2, 2024 A reader writes: A short, sweet note about how I used your advice to tackle salary talk during an initial phone chat with the hiring manager: Hiring manager: While we’re talking about cost of living, can I ask your salary expectation for the role? Me: (casual laugh) Actually, I was just about to ask you what your budget for the role is. Hiring manager: (laugh) Oh! Hum…. I think I can pull that up. Give me a second… (She tappity-tapped on the line. I waited, and bit my lip so I didn’t nervous-babble anything about steep rental prices in the area, and waited.) Hiring manager: So the number I have here is X. Me: (long pause) Oh…kay. That’s a little lower than I would have expected. Is that the bottom of the range, or…? Hiring manager: No, that’s the top of the range. Me: (pause again) Mm. Hiring manager: We’re actively reviewing it at the end of this cycle. In my view it’s a bit low, I agree with you there. So either we need a pay band increase or a title change. Me: Yeah … for this role I would have ballparked more like X+10%. Hiring manager: Okay! I don’t know that we’ll get all the way there in this cycle, but I am pushing to nudge it closer to your number. I think that’s what the role is worth anyway. Me: That’s great. Hiring manager: We can definitely keep it in mind as we proceed. Moving on… Oh, and the lower number she gave? Is still 50% higher than my last salaried role. Don’t settle for being underpaid and taken advantage of, kids. You may also like:how to negotiate salary after a job offerwhat should a salary negotiation sound like?after I asked for a raise, my boss told me I buy too much coffee { 85 comments }
let’s discuss egregious safety violations at work by Alison Green on May 2, 2024 You’d think safety would be top of mind for employers, but some are willing to tolerate egregious safety issues in order to keep people working. Some examples that have been shared by readers in the past: • “At a call center job, there was a tornado that touched down just a few miles away and they refused to let people off the phones to seek shelter. Another time someone pulled the fire alarm and no one moved. They just kept on taking calls because they would get in trouble or face getting fired if they did not take phone calls. A third time people were getting sick. There was an odd smell throughout the center. People were allowed to leave but they did get docked a half point. Someone called the fire department because it could have been a gas leak. Instead of evacuating, they kept everyone working and the fire department walked around with some sort of meter thing. We never found out what it was.” • “I worked on the top floor of a seven-story building and looked out one day to see fire engines everywhere. I asked the office manager if he knew what was going on. Apparently, there was a bomb threat but our office did not want to evacuate!” • “I once couldn’t get an employee to take shelter on his own during an active shooter situation. He just wanted to stay at his desk and play on his computer. (!!!) I had to get help from a male coworker to physically drag him into shelter.” What egregious safety violations have you seen in your own workplaces? Let’s discuss in the comments. You may also like:my coworker is working alone overnight despite explicit instructions not tomy employee thinks coronavirus is a hoaxI was asked to be “friendlier” when giving feedback about serious safety issues { 1,179 comments }