my boss is trying to “quiet fire” me — can I just ignore it? by Alison Green on January 8, 2024 A reader writes: I have worked for a tiny company in a managerial position for close to 15 years. Over the past few years, the owner/boss has made a consistent series of stunningly bad business decisions that has led from an environment of “high achieving lunacy” to “wow, quite dysfunctional” to “flaming dumpster fire of the highest order.” This past year has been particularly difficult. She yells and cries and curses, then begs forgiveness. She will ignore projects that require her input or action for weeks or months, ignore the prompts or questions of others, and then swing wildly in the opposite direction and ride everyone hard to get something pretty pointless done in a stupidly short amount of time. She seems to have abandoned our normal work and is now obsessed with auditing 20-year-old files that she could have gotten rid of a decade ago. The “raise and bonus” that she has promised me every year since Covid keeps getting pushed back. I could go on, and on, and on. I have tried to broach these topics with her, multiple times, most recently just before Thanksgiving. As anxious as it makes me, I know it’s the best choice for me to leave, and I have just started applying for new positions at companies that are (hopefully) less dysfunctional. That said, what I am witnessing over the past weeks, since I tried to have a discussion on getting the business back on track with her, can best be described as “quiet firing.” She leaves me out of emails and meetings, ignores my replies or messages, doesn’t answer my questions. She took everyone out for lunch the other day, except for me because I was out for a client appointment. It all has a real “fuck you” feel to it, that the same actions in other situations don’t usually have. However, I kind of … don’t care. If she wants to pay me my salary to ignore my existence or bury me in easy, pointless busywork as I search for a new job, then … cool? My question is, is this wrong? It doesn’t seem any more unethical for me to stay in this position not doing much of anything because she is trying to be passive-aggressive than the things she has done and stress she has put me through. If I’m already going to leave anyway, is there something wrong with letting this go on until I find a new position? It’s not unethical to remain in a job where your boss is upset with you or wants you gone; if she wants you gone badly enough, she can tell you that. That’s her job. Your job is to cover the responsibilities you’re assigned with a reasonable amount of conscientiousness. If your boss tries to bury you in pointless busywork or doesn’t give you the resources you need to do your job … well, that’s her call. In many situations and especially in a senior enough role, I’d argue that you would have a responsibility to raise it at least once to make sure she’s aware that’s how your time is being used and that you think X would be more effective. But when it’s clearly intended as a way to retaliate against you for delivering a message she didn’t want to hear? And when she has a long-running track record of resisting feedback, not to mention what sounds like stringing you along with false promises about salary? No. If she wants to play that game, you’re not obligated to try to save her from herself, particularly when it could mean causing even more problems for yourself at work or even getting fired. Of course, that’s a different question than whether it’s in your best interests to stay in this situation. It almost certainly isn’t! If this continues for long enough, it risks affecting you professionally, to say nothing about the daily impact on your quality of life. If your question to me was “can I just ride this out for years?” I’d warn you that it was a bad plan. But you’re actively working on leaving, and there’s nothing wrong with continuing to get paid where you are until you can make that happen. If she wants to pretend you’re not there until then, that’s on her. You may also like:update: our boss won’t speak to us, hides in his office, and drops off calls if anyone greets himhow do I quit when my boss won't speak to me?my boss will not physically acknowledge me in social settings { 128 comments }
my new hire keeps uncovering problems … and I’m embarrassed by Alison Green on January 8, 2024 A reader writes: I’m the head of a small organization. A year ago, we hired a new person to fill a newly created position. Jane has 15 years of experience and knows what she’s doing in her field. She is finding problems and issues in many areas. She is gracious about these issues, doesn’t point fingers, and is happy to fix the issues herself. But every time she points out an issue, I find myself getting defensive. The problems are always big ones, not tiny ones, and things we should have caught much earlier (like serious issues with the accuracy of our database). I’m embarrassed by all the problems and how lax things have gotten and I know it reflects back on me. But, instead of wanting to fix the problems, I often feel as if I want her stop pointing things out and just let things go. The other staff have become defensive and argumentative with Jane about the smallest things. Jane has come to me with some of the issues with the other staff and I’ve not been her strongest advocate because I understand where the others are coming from and am sympathetic to them. But obviously hiding my head in the sand isn’t going to fix this situation or help us reach the goals we’ve set as an organization. Reaching those goals is one of the reasons we hired Jane. It embarrasses me that I resent her for so quickly seeing things that no one else saw or thought about or cared to check. It’s embarrassing to feel that “sort of maybe good enough” is the standard I’m now accepting and my staff feels is okay. How do I let go of my defensiveness and support Jane and how do I get the other staff to do the same? I’m worried that, after a year, it may be too late and she’s already looking to leave. If so, I won’t blame her but hope to turn things around with either her or the next person we bring on. I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here. You may also like:my coworker keeps bringing me "problems" that aren't problems ... and they're definitely not HER problemshow do I talk with my incompetent boss about his ridiculously inaccurate organizational chart?where do you start when you inherit a bad employee? { 129 comments }
men are hitting on my scheduling bot because it has a woman’s name by Alison Green on January 8, 2024 A reader writes: I have sort of a strange situation. I provide consulting services for (mostly) small business owners. This generally involves scheduling some meetings, and I have an email “Personal Assistant” bot that does this for me. It has a female name (which was the default), and does not announce that it is a bot (though I don’t think it’s hard to tell). It gives a standard salutation and signs off with “Thank you, <bot name>.” All it does is schedule meetings, and it’s not nearly to the level of an AI chat bot or anything. Any parts of an email that it receives that don’t seem related to scheduling just get ignored by the program. The emails show up in my inbox and I review them to make sure everything got added to my calendar correctly. However, this complete lack of personal-type interaction has not stopped several of the men (not usually the actual owners of the client businesses) it is scheduling appointments with from asking it out on dates. Sometimes this happens within the same emails that were used to schedule meetings, and once a man sent an after-hours email from his personal address (which is somehow both creepier and also better work/life boundaries? I don’t know!). So far I have just ignored these incidents and gone on with the professional relationship like nothing happened. Obviously, this would be inappropriate behavior if it was happening to an actual human assistant, and I would deal with it. However, since it’s happening to a bot, what am I supposed to do? Obviously the bot doesn’t have opinions about the issue, but if one of my employees was asking out women after a very basic scheduling email with absolutely no personal content, I’d probably want to know about it so I could address it, because it’s probably happening to real human assistants as well. What are your thoughts? OMG, what?! I am laughing but it might turn into sobs at any moment. If anyone ever doubted that some men will take any opportunity to ask out a female-appearing person, absent any signs of her personality or any signs of interest from her … and in this case absent any clues about her whatsoever other than that her name signals she is equipped with female genitalia … here you go. Men, heal thyselves. As for what to do … if you just want it to stop, the easiest answer is to change the name to a very male-sounding one. I will personally pay you thousands of dollars if changing the bot’s name to Wayne doesn’t put an immediate end to this. Alternately, though, you could use these emails as a useful early character indicator about these guys. If the men responding were your actual clients, it would definitely be useful background info that should factor into how you see them — but the fact that they’re usually not your clients makes that idea less helpful. A different option is to reply as yourself once the messages reach you (“FYI, Ron, this was a scheduling bot, not an actual woman — please reconsider your life choices”). But you’re absolutely right when you say, “If one of my employees was asking out women after a very basic scheduling email with absolutely no personal content, I’d probably want to know about it so I could address it.” And given that, I do think there’s room to flag it to your client — like forwarding the email with, “This is awkward, but I’d want to know if one of my employees were asking out women after a very basic scheduling email so I’m passing on the below to you. In this case, ‘Emily’ is a scheduling bot — making this all the odder — but seems like a flag it may be happening to actual human assistants as well.” (Also, I think from your email that you’re a man, and there can be be particular power in men calling this stuff out.) All that said, I admit I am hoping for an alternate version of this story where it turns out the romance-attempter is a bot himself, recognizes a kindred soul in “Emily,” and what you are witnessing is bot-on-bot love, in which case you can and should simply stand back and watch what unfolds. Read an update to this letter. You may also like:do I need to give up an impressive business contact who’s hitting on me?my coworkers think I'm flirting with themare these men hitting on me via LinkedIn or are they legit business contacts? { 1,074 comments }
my boss flipped out when I said I “have options,” interviewing a candidate who was recently hired elsewhere, and more by Alison Green on January 8, 2024 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. My boss flipped out when I said I “have options” Recently, I had a terse exchange with my boss during a meeting where a group of my colleagues and I were being updated on a serious HR situation. After hearing about the problem and the path forward, I tried to clarify the timeline for rectifying the situation. After I asked a question similar to “So are we talking about a month, six months, a year?” my boss deflected by asking, “Why do you need to know that and what does it matter to you?” This certainly raised the temperature in the room and I stammered something about this situation impacting my team and my own career negatively. I calmly said that I hoped the the situation would be resolved quickly and that we all had “options” if not. Several days later I got called into a private meeting with my boss. They went absolutely ballistic. They said that they had never had an employee tell them that they “had options” during decades of management. They said that was such a horrible misstep that I was lucky I wasn’t getting fired. I was stunned, but apologized! I am still really shaken, but mostly I’m struggling to believe that I really did something horrible. I’m curious if you also think that telling your boss you “have options” is the worst thing you can do. What on earth. Your boss is wildly out of line. No, calmly noting that you “have options” is not a cardinal sin, let alone something that should get you fired (!). It’s true that you said the quiet part out loud; it’s not super common for people to spell out that they might leave if a serious problem remains unresolved, but it’s certainly implicit in many, many conversations (hell, it’s often the subtext when you do something as basic as ask for a raise) and the concept itself is not an adversarial one. Of course you have options! Of course you might choose to leave if you’re dissatisfied with your job/company/boss. That’s how this works. It’s good that you have options — it’s good for you for all the obvious reasons and it’s good for your boss because it means they’re employing people who have desirable skills. (As a manager, I would be much more concerned if my employees didn’t have options. What would that say about my hiring?) A less volatile boss might still have found it a little blunt or aggressive for you to say it so baldly in that particular context, but your boss’s bizarrely excessive reaction says a ton about them and how they see employees: they don’t want to be reminded that you’re an independent agent with the power to act in your own interests, and they want you to perform deference in a really outmoded and exploitative way. 2. We’re interviewing a candidate who was recently hired elsewhere I follow my former employer on social media, and saw that they recently hired Uniquely Named Guy (UNG) to a junior position. I am part of a hiring committee interviewing UNG for a senior position at my current company next week. Because I’m connected to the prior incumbent of the junior position on LinkedIn, I know when that job came open: about the same time as our senior position. Our hiring process is admittedly slow for the senior position (it’s pretty high level and a lot of teams are invested in the hire) but he would have known he was in the running when he took the other job. I know that I shouldn’t tell my former colleagues that their new hire is still looking. What I am wondering is whether or not this is a black mark against his candidacy here? Should I tell the other members of the hiring committee what I know? Nah, leave it alone. You don’t know the full context — it’s possible that his new job has turned out to be horrible and that’s why he’s staying in the running with you. Or he accepted his current job because he needed the income, but if he’s offered a much better fit (like your more senior and presumably better paid position), he’s reasonably going to take it. I know the concern is “will he do this to us too?” — but really, that’s always possible when you hire someone and you can’t perfectly control for it. If he seems to have a relatively stable job history, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Read an update to this letter. 3. Job application asked for my consent for AI screening I’m currently applying for jobs and came across this note while doing an Indeed application: “We use machine learning for an initial comparison of resumes against the education, experience, and skills requirements of the job description. This analysis does not exclude any applicants from consideration. For more information, the Profile Relevancy score for applicants who opt out will be listed as ’Not Available.’” Then there was a box to check for “I wish to opt out from having my resume reviewed by artificial intelligence as part of the application process.” I know that software has been used for years, but this is the first time I’ve been given the option to forgo the software review. I thought I’d share it with you because I found it interesting but I’m also curious if an applicant should or shouldn’t opt out? They’re using that language because New York City, Maryland, and Illinois now require companies using AI to assist in making decisions about applications to notify applicants and allow them to opt out, and several other states are considering similar legislation. Typically when employers use software that automatically scores applicants, having no score isn’t treated the same as having a low score and it’s not likely to result in an automatic rejection. And most employers experimenting with AI in early-stage screening are likely using it to generate a score to flag particularly competitive applications, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t looking at the others. In fact, I’ve never known a competent hiring manager who doesn’t give at least a quick look at all applicants, regardless of how their hiring software works. Still, there are a lot of ways this could play out over time. For now, if you want to play it safe, you’re probably better off opting in (and frankly, I’m not convinced it’s appreciably different than the electronic application systems that have been helping to process applicants for quite a while, without any consent required). 4. Should I stay or go? A year ago, after nearly 15 years working in nonprofits, I took a job at a small consulting firm. My friend and close colleague was also transitioning from his longtime research position and coming on as the new CEO; we had big hopes of expanding the firm’s niche work— in, let’s say, china teapots — to include copper teapots, plus training on how to make copper teapots, brew the best tea in them … all of the things in my wheelhouse. The owners of the parent company had made some promises about helping us expand into the copper teapot market, but none of that support is present here. Everybody else is focused on either working on their teapot work and following the same business models that have existed for years. Then there’s me: I am a specialist in copper, with an understanding of copper teapots, but really my expertise is copper overall — so the expectation that I understand marketing, communication, business planning and development. It’s like I’m frozen solid every day with anxiety and utterly overwhelmed, absolutely over my head with work that I’m not good at, doing work I didn’t want. Yes, I wanted to be a consultant and have freedom, but I joined a firm with the expectation that I wasn’t going to have to do it all solo and establish this copper expansion and generate business, the way that one would if they hung up their own shingle. I have creativity and freedom, but it goes nowhere because I don’t know what I’m doing … and since everybody else is focused on their specialty work in china teapots, nobody can help me. I’m expected to do this; this is my job. (Let’s not touch on how I feel like I can’t even ask for help with how my ADHD is impacting my work, lest I come off like I’m trying to shirk administrative work everybody else seems to do effortlessly.) The thing is, there’s another consulting company that does specialize in all things copper, and I could apply for an open position there. They are very well established, I’d just take on the work that they assign me. I’m getting conflicting advice from folks around me — many say stick with the current company and give it another year, others worry that my mental health is taking such a blow that it’s better to try to get a position elsewhere. I’m worried that I’ll look flaky by leaving after a year, especially when the CEO believes in me. I can’t tell if I just need to dig in and let this ride for a while more and see if it stabilizes or makes more sense (and maybe we expand to hire folks to help with marketing, who knows) versus if it’s time to move to something more certain. In a lot of similar situations, my advice would be to try talking to the CEO and/or your boss first if you haven’t already, to name the problem and see if anything changes. But in this case, the problems sound fundamental enough and broad enough that I’m skeptical that will produce enough change. It sounds like you were lured into the job under false pretenses — maybe not intentionally, but it’s certainly been the outcome that the things you were told would happen are not happening, and no one is even talking about making them happen. They’d need to make really significant shifts, including multiple new hires, to give you the set-up you were led to believe you’d have. That’s just not likely to happen. Even if you get some movement from them, it doesn’t sound likely to be enough. And you’ve been there a year! It’s not flaky to leave after a year as long as long as you don’t have a pattern of lots of short-term stays. You also have a very easy explanation of “I was brought in because the company planned to shift its focus to X but that ended up not happening.” You’re not happy, the job isn’t what you were promised, there’s another job that sounds much more promising … you should go for it! You don’t need to stay just because the CEO believes in you. 5. Is it unprofessional to say I’m on a road trip? I was furloughed for the month of January, and I’m using the time to take the big cross-country road trip I’ve always dreamed of. I also already told my boss that I won’t be returning to our company afterwards. In the meantime, I’m reaching out to contacts in my area to ask about freelance and full-time positions for when I get back. But is it unprofessional to say that I’m not available until February because I’m on a road trip? It’s not unprofessional, but it’s also not necessary. You can simply say “I’m away until February” or “I’m on the road until February so not available until then.” Whenever you give details in a situation like this, you run the risk of people having Opinions (like that a road trip sounds frivolous when they would be prioritizing their search or so forth). When you’re job hunting, it can be smarter not to invite that (unless you’re deliberately choosing to, as a screening mechanism or because you want to share and DGAF, which is also legitimate). You may also like:my boss trash-talks my coworker to memy office has a burn book we all have to read and signis it a mistake to turn down an interview because you're not enthusiastic about the job? { 357 comments }
weekend open thread – January 6-7, 2024 by Alison Green on January 5, 2024 This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand. Here are the rules for the weekend posts. Book recommendation of the week: Master Slave Husband Wife, by Ilyon Woo. The true story of an enslaved husband and wife who escaped slavery in the American south by posing as a white man (her) and “his” slave (him). This is utterly engrossing and will keep you up all night telling yourself you’ll just read one more chapter. * I make a commission if you use that Amazon link. You may also like:all of my 2022 and 2023 book recommendationsall of my 2020 and 2021 book recommendationsall of my book recommendations from 2015-2019 { 1,281 comments }
open thread – January 5-6, 2024 by Alison Green on January 5, 2024 It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers. * If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer. You may also like:my coworker passes me messages "from the CEO" ... that I think are really from hermy boss offered me money to film a sex tape with two coworkershere's a bunch of help finding a new job { 1,106 comments }
coworker offered to be my “work mom,” asking an employee to blur her Zoom background, and more by Alison Green on January 5, 2024 It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go… 1. Coworker offered to be my “work mom” I know your take on calling someone a work mom, but I’m wondering about your take on Work Parents in general. Through television, I’ve heard jokes about a work wife or work husband and, since it’s drama shows, never put much stock in it. I’m relatively new to my team, and at a company lunch a woman who’s been with the company for a long time came over to offer the table of less-senior women a “work mom.” It was fairly easy to brush off, but she followed up with an email. Now, I’m all for a mentor. I’m very happy at my company and it’s incredibly rare in my field to have so many women. But this is also my second career, making me nearly 10 years older than the majority of my peers. My only thought at her offer was, “I have a biological mother and a mother-in-law and that’s plenty.” This woman doesn’t directly oversee any of the people she was talking to, but it’d be really easy to fall into that scenario here. Is this a normal relationship to happen in the office, and people have just gotten cute about the names? Does she actually mean a professional mentor role, not a motherly figure? Am I properly weirded out by this? Maybe it also needs to be said — I’m a queer agender person with a feminine name and body, but I present very masculine/andro. It’s a reasonable assumption I’m also a little weirded out by gender roles. No, that’s not a normal thing! It’s weird. I assume she was offering herself as a mentor, but calling it a “work mom” is really bizarre and problematic. (I promise you no men are going around offering themselves up as a “work dad” and if they are it’s coming across as creepy.) She could have simply said “mentor” and conveyed what she meant. “Work mom” brings in all sorts of other connotations that don’t apply in a business context, including that you are young and in need of parenting. It sounds like the phrase of someone who has no frame of reference for women in senior positions or with authority, and therefore “mom” — with all of its gendered subtext — is her go-to rather than “mentor,” “advisor,” or “senior colleague.” That in itself makes her suspect as a good choice for the role she’s offering. (As a side note, it’s also a title that’s particularly odd to bestow on oneself! When it does get used, it’s normally in the context of a third party saying something like “Jane always makes sure everyone has enough food at meetings, she’s like our work mom” — which is also sexist and problematic — rather than someone saying, “hi, I’m available to be your work mom.”) 2. My team lead says it’s a problem that I don’t trust my incompetent coworker I work in a close-knit team in a company with about 170 employees. I like my job and have grown a lot since I started a few years ago, but a situation with a coworker has me baffled and has made me question if I want to stay here. “Brenda” has worked for the company for about 15 years, the longest of anyone on my team. She started at entry level and worked her way up to the role she has today, which I thought was really impressive. Until it wasn’t. We deal with a lot of subjects that require tactfulness, and Brenda is as tactful as a sledgehammer. Her work is sloppy and her suggestions for technical solutions are so out of touch that I have found myself stunned into silence in meetings with her. Some of her mistakes could have been prevented if she brainstormed with anyone on the team first, but she likes to do her own thing. She doesn’t take feedback; either she coldly replies and does nothing, or she says thank you and corrects one mistake out of 10. There have been two instances since I started where she felt slighted and didn’t show up to group meetings to prove a point. Her behavior is something I, and other coworkers, have addressed with my team leader several times, both separately and in a group. During one recent conversation with the team lead, they told me that I “have no trust in Brenda at all, which is a massive problem.” This shocked me, and I made it clear that I am not the problem here, Brenda is, and they agreed and mentioned that even our manager has seen examples of her sloppy work. I have mulled on this conversation a lot: is it a bigger problem that I don’t trust my underperforming colleague than that someone underperforms? It can’t be okay that someone produces bad work as long as the team gets along, right? Ever since I started, and realized there was an annoyance with her work from others, I have tried to find something positive about her work and even told other coworkers to stop assuming the worst. But I am at my wit’s end with how to go about this. I feel like my team lead is dealing with Brenda with kid gloves and I fear that my only two options are accepting the situation or leave. It sounds like those are indeed your only options, since you and others have raised your concerns repeatedly and nothing is changing. It’s possible something is happening behind the scenes that you don’t know about (in most cases you wouldn’t), but if it’s been months and months since you started raising the issues (as opposed to a few weeks), it’s safe to conclude you’re dealing with a passive manager who’s not handling a serious situation with the urgency it needs. (Updated to add: I just realized you didn’t say you’ve raised the problems with your actual manager. If you haven’t, that’s absolutely the next step.) But no, it’s not a bigger problem that you don’t trust a coworker who has shown you can’t trust her than it is that she’s underperforming in the first place. If Brenda had fixed the problems and was operating differently and you still didn’t show her any trust a year later, that could be a reasonable thing for your team lead to flag — but when Brenda is still actively Brenda-ing, of course you don’t trust her. Why would you? Your team lead sounds like they’re focusing on something they feel they might be able to influence (you) rather than on Brenda because Brenda is a harder problem (and one they might have no power to affect, if their manager refuses to act). 3. Can I ask an employee to blur her Zoom background on external meetings? Is it appropriate for me to ask my direct report to blur her Zoom background in external meetings? She works from her bedroom, which is totally fine — I couldn’t care less most of the time. However, her room is often untidy and the background is generally an unmade bed with a lazy dog lounging on it. I think that this is fine for internal meetings, I know she’s proud of her animals and likes to show them off. However, I invited her to an external meeting with a prospect for corporate sponsorship and it felt unprofessional. Is it appropriate for me to suggest that in external meetings we should blur our backgrounds? How could I go about this? It’s 100% appropriate to say she needs a professional background for external meetings, and that one way to do that would be to blur her background. That’s a pretty basic professional expectation; you’re not overstepping by requesting it. Say this: “I don’t care about anyone’s background during internal meetings, but for external meetings, we need a professional look, which includes no beds or pets visible on the call. I know it can be tough to find a neutral-looking space when you’re working from home, but blurring your background should solve it — can you plan to do that for external meetings?” 4. Can I take off a full week when no one can cover for me? I work for a completely virtual, family-owned company, about 45 employees. I’ve been here eight years. I am head of a three-person department and answer directly to the owner/CEO. We haven’t had raises in two years, not even cost of living. We keep hearing how we’re losing customers — and we are. (Bad management, but that’s another letter!) I did negotiate a lot of vacation — 20 days a year, which I like because we only get seven paid holidays a year. I generally take vacation a few days here and there, because our sales/customer service staff gets hysterical if I can’t instantly respond to a customer request. But now I want to take a week off at a time more often and completely disconnect. This is going to make our sales/customer service go nuts. The two people under me are very good and trustworthy, but don’t have the experience I do. I’m not saying I’m a genius and the only one who can possibly do this, but it’s more than technical training: it’s years of experience in areas I have that they don’t. Working to get them here just through video chats, when we don’t work near each other, would be next to impossible. Do I basically just find a polite way to say, “Folks, I’m taking off a week in two months from now. I’m well ahead on my scheduled work, but many of these customer ‘crises’ are just going to have to wait”? Or should I just realize life isn’t perfect and try to connect even when I’m on vacation? Nope, take your vacation. Give people a heads-up in advance, but that’s your time off that you negotiated as part of your benefits package and you’re entitled to take it. Taking a few days here and there can be great, but it’s also important to be able to disconnect for a large chunk of time like a week or more or you won’t reap any of the real benefits of time away. (I say this as someone who just took five weeks off and didn’t even begin to feel fully decompressed until the end of it!) That kind of real break is necessary to avoid burn-out. Unless you’re very highly compensated and it was part of the deal going in, do not agree to stay connected during your time off; if you do that, you’ll negate the benefits of trying to disconnect in the first place. (And frankly, even people in highly compensated jobs where it was part of the deal going in still can take full weeks off here and there if they set their minds to it.) However, if your boss does push back and you think you’re likely to give in, this would be a very good time to say you need to revisit your salary if those are the expectations. 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my interview was canceled because I was “rude and pushy” by Alison Green on January 4, 2024 A reader writes: After an eight-month job search in a second language, I finally lined up a great interview with a great company. It took them four weeks from my application (and a follow-up email) to get the interview but, at 9:30 pm on a Monday night, they asked me to confirm one of two time slots on Thursday. Time slot confirmed, I sat back to wait for details of where I had to be, or how the interview would take place. By Wednesday, I was a little twitchy and sent another email asking for some details. Thursday morning, two hours before the interview was to take place, I still knew nothing. So I sent a Google Meets link and asked if that worked for the interviewer. Ten minutes later, I received an email telling me the interview, and my candidacy, were cancelled on account of me being “rude and pushy.” I thought I was showing initiative and enthusiasm. I called to clarify and make things right and was told it was “no big deal, as you were our weakest candidate.” I’m not sure how else I was supposed to handle that situation, so … was I rude and pushy? And how should I have done it differently? You weren’t rude but you were a little pushy. But not horrifically so, and not in any way that justified rejecting you over it. Generally it’s up to the interviewer to determine what meeting software will be used for the interview and to set it up and generate an invitation. This is more about convention than logic, but it is very much the convention. (Partly it’s because as the candidate you don’t necessarily know exactly who will be attending and thus needs the link, whether they have internal procedures they have to adhere to, etc. — but all those things are also true of, say, vendor meetings and yet the convention that party X will always issue the invitation isn’t nearly as strong there.) But convention carries a lot of power and, rightly or wrongly, flouting it can make you look pushy or out of touch with professional norms or other things that don’t help you when you’re interviewing. Now, should they have sent details to you earlier than Thursday morning? Yes! It’s rude to leave a candidate waiting like that, making them wonder if the meeting is even going to happen. But at the same time, it’s not terribly uncommon for people to only send meeting links right before a meeting time. And if that’s their regular practice, having you send your own link came across as Too Much. With interviews, you’ll generally do better if you accept that you don’t have total control. Maybe your interviewer will call when they say they’ll call, maybe they won’t. Maybe they’ll send you the meeting link the night before, maybe they’ll send it 30 minutes before. All of this is nerve-wracking for candidates (and none of it is right or anything I’d advise employers to do, just very common) but you can’t control it. Setting up your own meeting link and sending it to them doesn’t make it any more or less likely that they’ll be at that meeting. Either they’re on top of their appointments or they’re not; if they’re not, your meeting link won’t change that. Because of that, I think your action was partly about self-soothing — “now there’s a meeting link so I can relax and won’t need to wait for theirs” — but it’s not aligned with that reality, and it came at the expense of annoying them. But to the extent that your meeting link was Too Much, it was a small thing, not something to reject you over. They could have simply replied, “Apologies for the delay — we’ll be using Zoom and here’s the link.” And then telling you it was “no big deal” because you were their weakest candidate? That’s a rude and snotty response, which amplifies the snottiness of their handling of the situation as a whole. I’m hesitant to say “bullet dodged” based just on this one thing — maybe they’ve got one crappy HR person but the rest of the company is great — but it’s not an awesome sign about them. You may also like:is it possible to be TOO responsive to an interview invitation?employer offered me a job, then made me interview again, then made a new offer, then yanked it -- what's going on?can I ask interviewers to get back to me either way? { 316 comments }
update: my former boss won’t leave me alone by Alison Green on January 4, 2024 Remember the letter-writer whose former boss wouldn’t leave them alone? Here’s the update. When you published my email, I was so grateful for your advice, plus I read all of the comments. At first, I decided on the most boring but easiest option (for me, anyway), which was to never contact my former boss again. But then, in April, something interesting happened: The woman who had become his second-in-command quit working for him with no other job lined up. What I didn’t know back then was that this would be the last time my former boss would ever manage anyone. After her departure, his role changed into a more advisory/senior role. (I learned this through the grapevine months later and I still don’t know if it’s permanent, but by this point, it seems to be.) In early May, only a couple of weeks after that shakeup at my former boss’ company, I was planning to go to a work event that I was 99% sure my former boss would attend as well. In the lead-up to that event, I realized two things. First, in the wake of his senior employee’s departure, I had an opening to check in with him and even offer him some advice. Second (and perhaps more important), I realized I was extremely anxious about running into him. I just wasn’t sure how eloquent I would be able to be in person as compared to sending him an email, and I didn’t think it would be possible to avoid him at the event. So I wrote a long email to him, which I sent the day before the work event. In the message I apologized for ghosting him, and I explained that in the time since I had been working at my current job (where I still am, and still loving it), I realized the ways that he had let me and his team down. I used specific examples of times when his conflict-avoidance and desire to be “liked” caused problems in the workplace, and I even recommended one of my favorite management books (The Five Dysfunctions of a Team) — a book I had read during my last few months working under him. It really opened my eyes to how dysfunctional our team actually was; we truly had all five dysfunctions down to a science. I concluded the message by telling him that I liked him as a person, that my disappointment in him was professional and not personal, and that I really just wanted to clear the air between us before we saw each other again. He responded with a message saying that he wished me well, wouldn’t be at the event, it had been a joy to watch me excel, and he had his own complicated feelings about the company where we had worked together. He said he had done a lot of reflecting and apologized for letting me down. He also said, “I’m confused by your assessment that your options were to ghost or write me a long email. To me, there’s a third option: a conversation, with mutual trust, aiming for mutual understanding and healing.” Unfortunately, I found this message to be very annoying. I appreciated that he apologized to me for letting me down as a boss, but the rest of the email was “I” statements and came across as a weirdly “poor me” type of email from a man who has been extremely successful and, although he no longer manages anyone, I doubt he has gotten a pay cut, and he still has a very cushy and influential position in a small and cliquey industry. I also was confused that he said he didn’t understand why I emailed him instead of having a “conversation.” An email thread can be a conversation, no? I would guess he would want this to be a phone call or a lunch, but … all that comes to mind for me when I imagine that is the number of times I told him I disagreed with his decisions when we worked together. Reading his message just made me feel freaking exhausted. So I’m kinda back to square one, wondering if I shouldn’t have contacted him in the first place. I never responded to his email (so I guess it wasn’t a “conversation,” then… my bad?) and I haven’t seen him since. I’m sure I will run into him at some point, and I’ll just put on my best friendly face and try to act normal, which… is also maybe what I should have tried to do in the first place. Oh well. Thanks for helping me through this entire saga! You may also like:dealing with a horrible, lying director and management that won't actI'm in recovery and my office just moved above a barour employer wants to cut our pay -- retroactively { 225 comments }
how do I find clothes that look businessy but not stuffy? by Alison Green on January 4, 2024 It’s the Thursday “ask the readers” question. A reader writes: I have a final job interview tomorrow. My previous interviews were virtual. I asked the recruiter (male) what to wear because I noticed my interviewers were wearing jeans and t-shirts. He said, “Oh, whatever makes you comfortable. Not a blazer. Most people here wear jeans and sneakers.” This ended up sending me into a four-hour venture of trying everything in my closet on (I mostly wear business dresses or blazers to work so was struggling to find something that looks sort of effortlessly businessy) while my sister sat and gave her opinion on literally everything, trying to find the right mix of casual but professional, and landing on what was still a jacket but less formal than a blazer with a cami and some leggings and flats. And now blow drying my hair so I can start from scratch to make it the appropriate amount of waves and everything so that it looks like I just woke up that way (but more polished). I feel like this is a female problem in a lot of ways. I’m trying to hit the right note of interviewing for what is actually a very senior leadership role in this organization (a role is actually very outwardly focused) without trying to look stuffy and old and like I can’t adapt to a younger environment. I’m a young-looking mid-40s woman in leadership and trying to hit the right vibe of being taken seriously as a senior leader and also not being too “old.” I feel men don’t have to go through this same crisis of trying to figure out how to be taken seriously but also be relevant, based on literally all my guy friends giving me feedback, but maybe I’m wrong? What do other people do? Is this just me? I know from reading the stories of trans people on your blog that there are clearly different expectations between women and men. Even if no one really realizes or acknowledges them. But I feel like “oh, wear whatever you’re comfortable in” is a very well-meaning but difficult response. Readers, what’s your advice? You may also like:do I still need to wear a suit to a job interview?do I have to wear a bra when I go back to the office?why can't I wear shorts to work? { 450 comments }