Ask a Manager

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose coworker talked non-stop and they couldn’t take it anymore? Here’s the update.

I eventually had to have a different, but direct conversation with Serena about her frequent comments regarding my clothing choices (i.e., her telling me “you wearing pants is throwing me off” when I often wear skirts/dresses). These comments, made in front of others, were uncomfortable and embarrassing. I told her, “You’ve made several comments over the past weeks about me wearing pants, and I want you to know that I don’t appreciate those comments. I’m asking you privately to stop.” She agreed and she has since stopped. Although she now avoids me, I continue to be professional when interacting, but it was a valuable lesson in how being direct actually worked.

Other colleagues have also started addressing her behavior more directly, by not letting her derail a conversation or telling her they have something handled if she tries to insert herself. Most of the behavior is continuing sporadically, but we aren’t expecting miracles overnight. We are gradually getting used to being more direct with her, using the approaches you suggested. Time will tell, but we’re all much less at our wits’ ends now as we’re noticing fewer interruptions and are getting used to be more direct with her and with each other.

One detail I regret leaving out of my letter is that Serena’s actions have had a significant and ongoing impact on our productivity. She frequently engages in extended chats and interruptions with all staff members, including managers. Her arguments with experts have disrupted collaborative efforts on crucial projects. Moreover, her resistance to taking advice has led to several serious mistakes. In hindsight, I realize this is the real issue, but I initially refrained from mentioning it, thinking that I had no control over it. However, after reading the comments, I recognize that the lack of effective management by Serena’s manager and the grandboss, despite repeated reports about the issues, is the core problem.

Your advice prompted me to reflect on why we weren’t being direct. While it’s not an excuse (and I now know better), being a young woman starting my career, and with many of my colleagues in a similar situation, there is a strong desire to be liked for being polite and helpful. We were never taught to establish boundaries, and have watched as other female coworkers are punished by the older, male C-suite executives for being “abrasive and opinionated, or hard to get along with.” In fact, last year, one such coworker was demoted with those exact words, which served as a stark warning. Our industry is reputation-driven (government field), so the younger, female workers are acutely aware that these men control our career trajectories and therefore we feel compelled to conform to their expectations of being “sweet” to advance. I believe this compounded our hesitance to confront Serena in fear of being unfairly branded as “difficult.”

It’s eye-opening to realize I can set boundaries and still be kind. My own anxiety made me fear that if I were direct with Serena, she would think I didn’t like her, and I didn’t want her to feel bad. However, I now understand that avoiding directness was doing more harm in the long run. I also wanted to clarify the mention of neurodivergence. While it’s not the core issue, we did not want to stigmatize or make Serena feel inferior if she had neurodivergent traits (and it often comes up in AAM threads). However, in our attempts to be kind, we were avoiding addressing the more significant issue at hand.

To sum it up, the workplace is indeed toxic, with a lack of professional management and low morale. Serena’s chattiness is just one among many issues and I’m actively exploring options to leave before it distorts my perception of normal. Thank you to you and the commenters for helping me realize that my colleagues and I were being passive-aggressive to spare Serena’s feelings, which was ultimately unkind, and we weren’t focussing on the actual big-picture issues. I’ve learned a valuable lesson I’ll carry throughout my career, and with practice, I’m confident that I can implement effectively. Thank you so much!

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose coworker lied about sexual harassment because he didn’t like their new boss? Here’s the update.

I just wanted to express my gratitude for your advice and that of the commenters — it really helped me a lot. As some readers guessed, I’m a young woman, the first in my family to land a “good” office job. So, some of the things people consider normal are new to me.

Horace used to be my old boss, and he said that in any situations involving coworkers, it should be dealt with directly with the manager. HR was for more significant issues. He emphasized that if we kept bothering HR with gossip about what colleagues did or didn’t do, our name would be the one HR remembered if someone had to be let go. It’s not a valid excuse, I know, but I was afraid of going to HR and ending up getting fired for it.

But thanks to you and your readers, I went to HR right after my question was posted and followed the advice of only stating the facts. I said things like, “Tom said X and Y in the meeting room around X o’clock on Y day.” I left out things like, “I think Tom is trying to get the new manager fired to take his position.” This helped with the feeling that I was talking behind a colleague’s back.

The next day, Tom accused the friend of “snitching” on the conversation to HR. Our office is an open space, and the only separate room is the manager’s. So, the argument was heard by everyone (and I think that’s why Tom didn’t see me on the day of the conversation). Tom said he had praised the efficiency of HR and victim protection, the friend responded, and the conversation escalated to the point where a manager from another department appeared and took both of them to HR. Information about the complaint was supposed to be confidential during the investigation, but after the argument, everyone knew.

Arthur returned the following week, but he was completely changed. No more laughter and jokes. He only spoke with the team when absolutely necessary and always in a serious tone. His office door was never closed again, and he made an effort to avoid physical contact with anyone. It was painful to see the change. I tried talking to him, but he avoided any kind of personal conversation. A few weeks later, he announced that he was being transferred to another branch of the company. I managed to speak with him before he left, and he said he no longer felt comfortable working here, even though people showed support. He preferred to distance himself from the situation.

After Arthur left, our team was dissolved, and we were reassigned to another team. The new manager of Tom’s team has been with the company for many years and is very well-liked; it will be challenging to accuse her of anything. My new manager seems okay, and Arthur seems to be doing better in the other branch than he was here.

I know it’s not the update everyone was expecting.

Update to the update:

I honestly thought that would be the last update, but something unexpected happened!

I live in a country where paid sick days shorter than a week should be covered by the employer if the employee provides a medical certificate. Tom was selling fake medical certificates within the company and got caught. Since it’s considered a crime here, Tom was fired on the spot (along with some friends who bought the certificates) and could face criminal charges.

I’m not sure if they discovered the forgery while investigating the complaint against Arthur, but at least Tom was fired without a chance of getting a good reference.

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are three updates from past letter-writers.

1. Can I use an improvement plan for an employee who lies?

First off, it is HARD to come up with an example that is useful but disguised, since I have reason to believe the person I wrote about reads your site. The long and short of it was there was originally a particular problematic behavior that they were told not to do (and why), and this year they both continued to do it, and they tried to hide it from me.

I wrote in after a discrepancy arose regarding some reports. I never really got to the bottom of that; the third party I was attempting to verify the figures with tracked items in a different way in their software. To give the employee the benefit of the doubt, I think they just hadn’t kept on top of their tracking, which led to the discrepancy. However, my sense was that they hadn’t kept on top of their tracking because they were working on certain non-priority items after we had already talked about not doing that.

Long story short, that employee has since taken a role in a different department to pivot their career in a new direction, while remaining with the company.

Given our dozen-years long relationship, and the niche workload of that role, not to mention the pending difficulty of replacing them, I expected to be more upset at that announcement. And I just… wasn’t. Funnily enough, my neighbor in the downstairs flat moved out the same week. She used to drive me nuts at times (neighbors!), but I found myself oddly verklempt the night she left, in a way I just wasn’t with my former employee. I think that is due to a combination of things:

• I really like this person and I wish them all the best. I truly hope their new career path fulfils them and I do think that they have been (for at least ten years) a good employee. I hope that with this change, the company will continue to benefit from the good work they are capable of producing, even if they weren’t at their best in the last year or so. And I think it’s smart of them to pivot into a direction that holds fewer stressors for them.
• I don’t think I had anything left to teach them after that long tenure and I’m excited to see them develop under a new supervisor. And since they weren’t listening to me anymore (regarding the non-priority items and the ‘problematic behavior’), I hope they grow under someone new.
• And finally, one of the reasons they had been asked not to engage in the original ‘problematic behavior’ was the worry that it could lead to burnout and… I suspect I was right and that it did. Since this person has transitioned to the new department, I have discovered a number of errors from their work this year that were uncharacteristic of their work in the past. It certainly seems like some combination of burnout, senioritis, or ignoring me and working on non-priority items to the detriment of their work product.

I think I just feel relieved that I don’t have to keep having the same feedback conversations with them. As you said in your advice, the situation was untenable, although it can be hard to see that clearly after such a long working relationship.

Their replacement started just last week, so while it’s too soon to say for certain, hopefully all’s well that ends well.

Thanks as always for your advice.

2. How can I break the habit of giving reasons for my time-off requests? (#2 at the link)

My update is that I have actually somewhat backslid: while I do try not to give reasons for my absences or asking for PTO, I have gotten on much friendlier with my grandboss as we now work together nearly daily. This has resulted in far more explanations in the casual sense. As in them asking me how I was feeling after taking sick days and me feeling the need to white lie about physical symptoms even though I used those sick days for mental health reasons.

I still try my best to be reserved about how much of my personal life I share, but I definitely have broken boundaries I tried to set for myself when starting this job – talking about parts of my life, giving out my cell number, working overtime and volunteering for more projects, etc. While this has lead me to being much more highly valued and has moved my career path forward with this department significantly, it has messed significantly with my work life balance (which was one of my new job resolutions to hold onto). During my PTO I have still successfully maintained a no-contact boundary for myself.

All this to say that my grandboss is still kind and understanding, and no one is asking for reasons for PTO or actively undermining these goals. It is more of a slow creep of a heavy workload office that finds me blurring my own lines. I will continue to be mindful of the boundaries, and hopefully improve incrementally, or at least resist further slippage. Best luck to everyone in the same boat!

3. Can I pass on a volunteer who’s only interested if they eventually get paid? (#3 at the link)

I did take your advice. I mentioned in my letter that I had an interview with another potential volunteer the following week. They ended up being a fantastic fit for the project. They worked for a video production company full-time, but enjoyed volunteering for causes that interested them. They were a delight to work with and the videos they edited turned out beautifully. The way they worked also gave me some guidance on doing my own (much simpler) video editing projects if I needed to. I let the first volunteer know that we were selecting someone else for the project. I didn’t address their request to be hired as a reason for choosing the other volunteer, since it turned out to be just one factor (the other volunteer had more experience as well).

I appreciated everyone’s comments and hearing from people doing creative work who enjoyed being able to volunteer their skills. I think some of the comments were less about my particular organization and more about the general challenges of under-resourced nonprofits, the difficulty of sustaining long-term systemic change, and the inequity that results from insisting people contribute unpaid hours first in order to be considered for paid positions. Those are all real concerns and we try to address them in the way we work, but I think we can also still create rich, meaningful opportunities for people to donate their skills and knowledge to improve the world as long as we aren’t blind to the challenges.

P.S. I also commented on the letter with a little more detail on our model.

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are four updates from past letter-writers.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

1. My boyfriend’s manager told me I could date someone better

It ended up being a life changer. My work environment rapidly degraded within weeks of the incident. What was once a fun workplace became stagnant. My manager, who was generally a happy person, became distant and sullen.Two people quit within a week of each other and my workload increased. After weeks of juggling my clients and theirs I asked my manager when we would hire replacements so she finally confided the company was facing major downsizing. (Surprise! I was on a sinking ship.) Supposedly my position wasn’t in danger but I got the feeling the workload was going to increase. I wonder if perhaps this is a reason the other manager was so angry all the time. It doesn’t excuse her rude behavior but I can say I certainly didn’t feel like smiling after learning this news. The worst feeling was knowing that I would pour all my hard work into this position but it probably wouldn’t change the outcome for the company. I felt like I had no control over anything.

After talking it over with my boyfriend, we decided to change our lives. I gave my notice, said my farewells, and in less than a month we moved to a state that has a better cost of living and is closer to family. We went back to school. I graduate from cosmetology school in December and I already have a position lined up in a salon once I’m licensed. My five-year goal is to open my own salon. Someday all the hard effort I put into my work will benefit MY OWN business. My boyfriend realized that he doesn’t enjoy sitting in an office all day so he’s an HVAC tech for a great company while also going to technical school. He finishes his HVAC certification next summer. He loves being physically active everyday and having more autonomy over his schedule. His goal is to work his way up and become a part owner of the company just like his boss did. If you think about it, one very unhappy manager actually did us a huge favor. It could’ve taken years to find out we were in the wrong place and on the wrong path for us.

2. Coworker seems annoyed that I might hire her employee (#2 at the link)

As I mentioned in my original letter, I had decided to not move forward with internal candidate Susie and at the same time she withdrew from the process.

Our company does not have a formal policy about internal transfers, other than the hiring manager (me) has to talk to the internal candidate’s supervisor before an offer is made. I appreciate the flexibility of this policy, as I like to interview all internal candidates to give them an opportunity to learn more about the different areas of work in our not-very-small company.

I sent a response to Jane (Susie’s supervisor) a few days after the interview: “Hi Jane – I did interview Susie last week, I try to interview all internal candidates. She has since withdrawn her candidacy.”

Her response to me was pretty generic as well: “OK, thank you for getting back to me. She shared this with me as well. :)”

All in all, it has been interesting to hear how different folks, both within my company (I asked a few people, my boss included about their process and how they would handle the situation) – some people prefer the supervisor is looped in right away; others don’t mind hearing later in the process.

As a fun side note, I’m actually in the interview process for an internal role that popped up, and that hiring manager has asked me to loop in my boss early in the process.

3. I was promised a three-month salary review but no one’s brought it up (#4 at the link)

I took your advice and asked for my raise, albeit a few months after you responded to my question (I was nervous!). I was told yes, I would be getting my raise, it would just have to wait for the fall. Honestly, I assumed that really meant I would get it at the end of the year.

A few minutes ago I was called onto a Zoom meeting where I was told I was officially getting my raise… plus an extra $5,200 on top of that. Things could not be going better! And I wanted to briefly mention I read the comments and know some people were concerned that the raise may have been offered to me by someone without such authority, but I work for an incredibly small company where the two people I talk to on a daily basis are the owner and the CFO, who were the people who originally offered the raise. It’s nice to work for a company where I know I’m valued and people are more important than profit. Thank you all!

4. Working with my sister … and sharing a hotel room? (#3 at the link)

Luckily the update is short and sweet. Once we got to the conference, it became a running joke with all of my coworkers and the event manager who booked my sister and me in the same room, and my sister and I ended up having a fun little slumber party. I didn’t end up saying anything to the organizers because it just didn’t feel like a big enough deal to warrant it, and sure enough the problem solved itself. We both went to the company retreat a few months later and were booked in separate rooms without saying anything, so I think everything resolved itself.

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose boss told lies to make their team feel bad for taking time off? Here’s the update.

A few days after my original email, Corrine sent me feedback through email about a task I had worked on; as usual, her tone was needlessly cruel and unhelpful and the “mistake” was not real — essentially, she was mad that I had asked a client for clarification about something rather than just guessing, saying I should have understood what they wanted. She said the client was mad that I had reached out; I told her I would be contacting the client to apologize and let them know Corinne had told me they were upset. She told me this wasn’t necessary but I did it anyway. The client replied and was confused and welcomed me to contact them in the future if they were ever any questions. So once again, Corrine was lying.

This time, I reached out to Corrine via email and let her know about my interaction with the client. She didn’t respond.

Luckily, the senior manager decided she wanted to have one-on-one meetings with each of us shortly after this. This is pretty unlike me to go over someone’s head but I was so exhausted with the drama that I let her know everything that had been going on and provided her with screenshots; my coworkers did the same. I told her I wasn’t equipped to deal with this and, frankly, I didn’t feel like I should have to. Thankfully, she is a big supporter of work/life balance so these stories were unnerving to her; at one point she even said that she allows Corrine to leave early and take days off all the time so she has no idea where this behavior is coming from.

In our next meeting, Corrine told us if we ever have an issue with her we need to go to her directly and not the senior manager, which I felt was pretty bold.

Since then, Corrine has softened a bit and hasn’t lied about people needing to work overtime; however, she still lies. Most recently she told us that other teams were complaining about us saying good morning to each other when we are in the office — this just isn’t true. I’ve noticed her behavior is unpredictable and sporadic so I’m not sure if there are things going on in her personal life that she is having trouble separating from her work life but to be blunt, I don’t care as she’s proven to not have any sympathy for her employees when the tables are turned.

Also, our team has changed from exempt to non-exempt within the last few months. I was upset at first but I have to say having the ability to tell Corrine I’m not working past my out time has been amazing.

I am looking for another position within the company right now. I’ve given myself a deadline of the end of December — at that point I will begin looking outside the company.

I hope this update was interesting! It’s been a wild ride. On the bright side, Corrine has provided me with endless bad boss stories to tell at parties.

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose coworker was putting fake mistakes in the writer’s work so the coworker could tell their boss the writer was bad at her job? Here’s the update.

I do have an update about my manager’s minion intentionally changing my work in order to make it look like I was making mistakes.

I replied back to my manager and cced Julia with a copy of my screenshot and framed it as “there must be an issue with our system because this is what it looked like after I finished it at 2 pm yesterday.” I then told them I would be sending the same email to the entire team and reaching out to IT to ensure everyone was aware to take screenshots and hopefully the issue could be fixed quickly.

Julia approached me after I sent out this communication and asked why I even thought to take screenshots in the first place. I replied that I had noticed a lot of the mistakes she was finding were things I knew I had done correctly so I wanted to see if there was possibly a glitch in the system. I’m sure she didn’t buy this but at least she knows she can’t get away with this behavior any longer now that everyone is taking screenshots.

IT did reply back to the concern and said according to their records, the last action on the record was mine and it wasn’t touched again until Julia updated it. In my brain, this is pretty clear evidence of what Julia is doing but to my manager, this just means the system is glitching and it looks different on Julia’s screen (insert eye roll here).

Julia has ended up getting a promotion on the team (again, eye roll) and I’m looking for a new position because this is clearly a toxic dynamic. Feedback has been provided to Cecilia’s director about her strange relationship with Julia from all of my coworkers and me but nothing has been done to separate them. The most we’ve seen is they’ve stopped posting photos together on social media but the favoritism is still obvious. I would think at the very least Julia would’ve been moved to a different team.

As for my coworkers, Julia has successfully alienated herself from the entire team. Everyone is friendly and professional towards her but she is definitely not getting happy hour invites and sits in Cecilia’s office at lunch. I’m sure she believes she is the victim but I can’t say that I feel the same.

Good luck to everyone out there looking for new positions! It’s rough out there – sending good vibes.