Ask a Manager

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. I turned down a job offer but then tried to accept it a few hours later

I’m not sure if I just committed a horrible faux pas. On Wednesday afternoon, I was offered a job. I was truly excited about the offer, but throughout the interview process I questioned whether I was the right fit for the role because it sounded like the department needed someone with more experience. I brought this concern to the attention of the hiring manager early on in the process, and he assured me that he thought I was the strongest candidate for the role, but I just had this bad feeling that I would be fired if I took this job. After mulling things over for a day, I declined the offer via email.

As soon as I hit send, I immediately regretted passing up this great opportunity. A couple hours later, I emailed HR again to ask if it was too late to change my mind. I sent the second email after the close of business on Thursday, so on Friday morning I called to follow up with HR. She stated that she was following up with the department to see if they had already reached out to other candidates and that she would let me know ASAP. I haven’t heard from her and at this point I don’t expect to.

The strange thing is is that she lied to me. I know for a fact that I was the only person they were considering because the hiring manager told me when I brought my concerns to him. I also noticed that they reposted the job immediately after I declined the offer. Why do you think the department changed their mind about hiring me so quickly? Did I make them question my abilities when I turned down the offer? And why didn’t HR just tell me that they decided to move on? At this point, I’m not mad at anyone but myself, but I just never understand why people aren’t straightforward or honest. I have other interviews lined up at the end of the month, so that’s the only thing that’s making moving on from this easier. Plus, after this ordeal, I’d probably be a bit too embarrassed to work with these people now.

It’s possible that they did reach out to other candidates (reposting the job wouldn’t preclude that possibility; they might simply be uncertain how the other candidates will ultimately shake out). But yes, it’s also possible that the HR person isn’t being straight with you and they just don’t want to re-open your offer because now you appear wishy-washy/not committed. It’s not unreasonable that they’d be put off by your uncertainty; most employers want to hire people who are excited about the job, and turning down the offer basically made your own anxieties about it theirs. As for why she wouldn’t be straightforward about that with you, well, lots of people are bad at delivering difficult or awkward messages, especially when there’s an easier out available to to them.

2. My boss doesn’t want to let me quit

I am working in an educational company, and this is my first job. I am working in a position as an education consultant. However, the responsibility is actually as much as selling the program while my true interest is in English teaching.

At first, I thought I would be fine with it. I am still working in education, anyway. Unfortunately, the more days I spend on the job, the more I want to quit as soon as possible (I have been working for 3 months now and my status is still an intern). But the fact that what I do is pretty different than what I thought I’d be doing kills me every day I go to work.

My supervisor is very nice and supportive and she keeps saying that she loves me and has considered me as her little sister. However, I began to get upset with her since I thought that all she is trying to do is to keep me in the job. I realize that I have helped her a lot and it will be pretty much difficult for her to let me go. The thing is, my decision to resign is final. I have tried so many times to change my mind and to love the job, but I always end up forgetting how to smile and being so blue all day long.

I have told her several times about resigning and she has declined my oral resignation. She finally said that she would probably let me go by the end of this December. But to be honest, I cannot actually wait that long. I really want to quit the job as immediate as possible, but her top weapon to make me stay is the word “responsibility,” and she even said that my family is toxic because they support me resigning just after few months working.

Should I wait until the end of the year or should I stick to my own decision to quit immediately? Also, I am planning to apply for graduate degree in TESOL after qutting the job. Do you think I should apply first, then use that to buy my ticket out of the office gracefully without hurting anyone?

You don’t need permission to quit. Your manager doesn’t need to “accept” your resignation. You get to quit whenever you want, whether she accepts it or not! And you don’t need to use grad school as an excuse for quitting. You can simply say that the job turned out not to be the right fit for you, and you are resigning. Period.

These are the words to use: “I’ve decided that I need to move on, and my last day will be in two weeks, October 26. I know you’ve urged me not to quit in the past, but my decision is final.” If she pushes back, tells you your family is toxic, or whatever, say this: “My decision is final. Shall we talk about what you’d like me to complete during these two weeks?” And then you stick to it. She can’t make you change your mind. Keep saying, “It’s not up for discussion.” And if it gets uncomfortable enough, you’d have reason to say, “I’d like to work out my final two weeks, but I need you to accept my decision. If you can’t do that, it would be best for both of us if today is my last day.”

Also: It’s super weird that your manager is telling you she loves you — ever, but especially after three months. She sounds manipulative, immature, and sort of horrid. Get out of there.

3. Assistant manager says I need to wear different socks

I’m currently in the running for a promotion, and my assistant manager has been giving me tips on how to make the manager think I’m ready for the part (start wearing makeup everyday, stop asking questions when I’m receiving instructions, etc). Unfortunately, all of these tips have been things that don’t actually matter, and my manager had no problem with. If I don’t go through with them, the assistant manager gets upset and aggressive that I’m ignoring the advice, acting as if it was a demand.

Her latest request has finally made me snap. She flipped out at me and implied that I would never get the job and get taken seriously if I didn’t follow her demand. The demand? Stop wearing socks with novelty designs.

I have never had an issue with dress code once, and we even have a joke in the store that if you’re unsure of dress code just look at me. We work in a fashion store (think Forever 21) so we dress trendy and fashionable. In fact, our training video explicitly tells us *not* to wear business attire as customers won’t know we work there. All staff members (including the manager) will wear things like superhero T-shirts, band tank tops, and other not very “professional” looking things.

I often don’t find time to wash socks, and we have a great deal on five packs of socks with things like birds, animals, flowers, buildings, words, and other such patterns on them. After the employee discount, it works out to $1 a pair, so I buy many packs and wear those to work.

Usually I wear flat shoes where you can see the socks, so I can sort of understand why the assistant manager told me not to wear them. However, the manager herself wears animal socks, and she has never said a thing about mine (except when she loves them).

The assistant manager’s argument is that customers won’t respect a manager wearing frog socks. I’m sorry, but is there anyone who would walk up to the manager of a trendy fashion store, see that they’re wearing fox socks, and suddenly think they’re dirt? What do you think?

I think your assistant manager is giving you bad advice, either intentionally for some reason or unintentionally. I also think you could put a stop to it by saying to your manager, “Hey, could I get your advice on something? Jane told me that I shouldn’t wear socks with novelty designs because customers won’t take me seriously. My sense is that novelty socks are fine, and I think you’ve even told me you like some of mine, but I’m thrown off by the advice and wanted to run it by you and see if you agree.” If your manager agrees with you, problem solved — and the next time your assistant manager brings it up, you can say, “Oh, I ran it by (manager) and she said it was fine.”

And yeah, sounds like you should ignore her other advice too. Never asking questions, for example, is a recipe for getting things wrong. This assistant manager, for whatever reason, is not someone to take advice from.

Read an update to this letter here.

4. How to note that I’m not graduating and available for work until December

I am graduating in December with my bachelors. I have started looking at jobs, but I don’t know how to apply since I technically do not have my degree yet, or the availability to work them before December. How should I word this on my resume?

In the Education section of your resume, where you’re listing your schooling, write this: B.A. in English (or whatever), expected December 2015

Lots of jobs that you’re applying for now probably will be okay with someone who can’t start until December; it’s not that far off, especially if they don’t have a super-quick hiring process, which most places don’t. But to be sure, if they contact you for an interview, mention at that point that you’re not available until (date) and ask if that will work for them. (You don’t want to waste your or their time interviewing if it won’t, of course. But for lots of jobs, it won’t be an issue.)

5. Update: New employee asked me our policy on dating supervisors

Remember the manager whose new employee asked about the company’s policy on dating supervisors, then quit four hours later? Here’s the update.

This former employee called today to inquire about the “Now Hiring” sign on our front marquee. At first, I couldn’t place him because he said that he had worked for a couple days, but then the whole thing came back to me. I told him that I would not hire him because he had worked for four hours and then quit and our policy states that I cannot hire back people who quit without notice. I wished him a good day and hung up the phone.

Well, he called back a minute later to tell me that he had not quit – he just couldn’t physically handle the work. I said that he quit because he came to me after four hours, told me that he couldn’t handle the work, and left me with a hole in the schedule for the rest of the week. He then said that I was making a mistake. I told him that he had now ruined any chances he had of being hired back under me because of his arguing with me. I then told him not to call again and hung up the phone. I may have been a bit forceful, but the sheer audacity of calling back after what he had done the first time was entirely shocking to me. We’ve now placed all of this in a file under his name and my upper management knows the entire situation.

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. How to tell my employer to replace me with someone more qualified

I work at a government office that consists of one full-time chief administrative officer and one casual assistant. Due to unexpected staffing changes, I went from being a one-day-a-week admin assistant to the full-time manager within one year. The only reasons I was hired were (1) I’m local, and (2) due to my lack of education/experience, I’m cheap compared to the usual professional who works in the position.

While I’m very good at administration, I have found my Achilles heel with politics and government red tape. Plus, I only have a high school education so I’m way below my peers (who typically have BA or MA).

I’ve tried telling council members that I’m having struggles with the position but they seem to think it’s just a matter of training. It’s not. I took one correspondence course in Poli-Sci and, after crying with frustration the entire time, I passed with 50%. I’m a perfectionist so my low job performance is killing me. How do I recommend that I be replace with someone who knows what they’re doing?

If you’re sure that you want to leave, first another job and then resign. When you resign, recommend that they replace you with someone with whatever specific skills or experience you think they should be looking for. That’s the appropriate time to raise it — when you’re ready to leave. If you say it beforehand, you risk them continuing to brush it off, as they’ve been doing, or pushing you out before you’ve found another position. So take care of your end of it first, and then give them that advice at the point where you want them actually looking for someone else.

2. Should I ask for a contract before accepting a job offer?

I have been verbally offered a position with a company, and I am wondering if it is justifiable to ask for a contract in order to make an informed decision. In my mind, this does not seem unreasonable, but I can understand how an alarm bell may sound to a prospective employer. This situation is not helped by the fact a second party is handling the discussions, not the employer, and I feel they are pressuring me to say I will accept the job, regardless of whether or not I see an actual contract outlining the terms of my employment or even a written offer with basic terms.

I know the job role, I have met the staff, and I like the company, but I just don’t know the terms and conditions that will no doubt bind me should I accept, but am I just being too cautious and should I say yes regardless of my concerns? Or is this just a recruitment agency pushing for their payday and I should keep pushing for that contract to make an informed decision?

If you’re in the U.S., contracts aren’t standard, and you’re unlikely to be offered one even if you ask for it. However, written offers are certainly reasonable, and you should ask for one. I’d say this, “I’m very interested in the offer but before I can accept would like to see the terms in writing, as well as information on benefits. Could you send me a written offer or even an email summarizing the details?”

3. How to list periodic employment with one employer on a resume

I interned with a scholarly journal in the summer of 2012. This past summer, 2015, I got a temporary paid position with them. When I asked my school’s career office for advice about how to list it on my resume, they suggested I go with how long my professional relationship with the journal has been, and list the dates I’ve been employed there as 2012-2015. What do you think?

I think they’re suggesting something that will be misleading at best. “2012-2015” sounds like you worked there in 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015; at least, that’s the standard way of interpreting dates on a resume. There’s a big difference between a job that you held for four years and one that you held for two summers.

Instead, it should be “summers of 2012 and 2015.”

Your school’s career office needs to up their game. If you did it the way they told you and an employer asked you about it, you could have ended up looking deliberately deceptive.

4. What does this second rejection mean?

I did a job interview at a very successful startup last week, and heard back yesterday that they filled the position with another candidate. So I replied to the email and said that it was a great opportunity to appear for the interview and I’ll look forward to any future opportunities.

Now this morning, I receive a reply from the same employer and he said, “I apologize I misspoke when I told you that the position was filled. At this point we are looking for a candidate with more XYZ skill, but we’ll keep your resume on file.”

Now I am puzzled about why would the employer need to write me this e-mail. 100% of the times, the employer doesn’t contact you back after sending the rejection email. I would love to know your views on this. Do you think I can still end up getting this position?

No. They clearly said that they’re rejecting you for the position and your skill set isn’t what they’re looking for.

Take it at face value: They originally told you that they’d filled the position, and then corrected it to say that they were continuing to interview for it but that you weren’t the right fit and were no longer under consideration. I’d guess that the first email was either just a mistake (could be as simple as copying and pasting the wrong form letter) or they’d made a hire but the person fell through. And I’d guess that they wrote to correct the first email because they didn’t want you to wonder or reach back out if you saw the job continuing to be advertised.

5. What does this email declining to give me feedback mean?

What does it mean when an employer declines to disclose his or her reasons for not shortlisting me when I asked for feedback after being rejected? I submitted an application and was told I wasn’t being considered. Then I sent an email asking for the reasons, especially if they were technical reasons (I am a programmer). The employer sent the following: “I’m sure you understand that there is not enough time to give feedback to every applicant, and since we have not talked personally I don’t feel I’m in the position to give adequate feedback at this point. However, thank you again for your interest and we wish you all the best for your future career.”

What does that ever mean?!

It means exactly what it says: They don’t routinely give feedback to rejected applicants, and it would be especially hard to do so in this case because they didn’t interview you.

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. “I will” versus “I would” in cover letters

I’m currently writing a cover letter, and I’m wondering if it’s better to say (for example) “I will excel in this role because…” or “I would excel…” I want to sound confident that I’m the right fit, but not presumptuous, so I’m leaning towards “would,” but what do you think?

Yes, definitely “would.” “Will” is too salesy and, frankly, inaccurate. When you’re just at the cover letter stage, you’re not fooling anyone by saying “I will…”; they know you’re just expressing interest at this point.

But also, your letter will probably be stronger if you don’t use language like “I would excel in this role because” at all and instead just talk about why you’d excel at it. In other words, instead of saying “I would excel because of my experience with teapot research,” it’s stronger to say something like, “I love teapot research. I’ve been told by multiple managers that I have a knack for bringing order to the chaos of teapot labs, and in my last role tackled daily some of the biggest teapot challenges in the field, such as…” In other words, show, not tell.

2. Should I give sensitive input to the search firm looking for our new CEO?

Our organization is going through a search for a CEO, and they have hired a search firm. One of the steps the firm wants to do is to interview current staff from the director level to junior staffers. There will be a group interview of junior staffers which I will participate in next week.

Through my years of working for the organization, I’ve witnessed instances of abusive behavior by directors towards junior staffers. By that, I mean yelling, demeaning treatment, bullying, and retaliation. The junior staffer would eventually tell the higher ups all the way to the CEO (it is a small office of less than 30 people). And the CEO would not really do anything substantive. He would talk to the junior staffer. He would also talk to the director. But the director would remain on the job. The abusive behavior would subside for a while, but it would recur again until the junior staffer left the organization. The pattern that I see, therefore, is that senior management tolerates inappropriate behavior by directors over a long period of time and did not handle complaints by junior staffers adequately. In more than one case, abusive directors remained in their jobs for years, despite a pattern of complaints.

So as far as feedback I’d like to give to the search firm for a new CEO, I’d like to tell them that I’d like the new CEO to be someone who won’t tolerate this type of stuff and who would put anyone who is abusive under proper disciplinary action. But how to do that without getting in trouble? Is this worth being candid and direct about?

I don’t think that’s the kind of thing they’re going to be looking for. This isn’t an interview to make internal improvements or for 360 feedback or anything like that; they’re not going to be in a position to change what you described, and they’re not going to prioritize that input over whatever direction on hiring they’re getting from the organization’s higher-ups (who hired them). So it’s unlikely to have much impact, unfortunately, and I wouldn’t take the risk.

3. Was this recruiter speaking in code?

I have a question about an interview that took place six months ago. (Yes, it still haunts me). It was with a recruiter with the employer.

Now, back then I hadn’t read your site and I didn’t realize that the first interview is not the time to talk about salary – if so, I would have demurred. At the time, however, I didn’t know. He asked me what sort of salary I’d request and I said $X. He said, “That’s a little much,” so I parried with $Y. He wrote it down on the paper he was taking notes on, and we continued the interview, which went well.

The next morning, however, he called me at 8 a.m. I was confused as to why he was calling so early, and confused in general (I’m not a morning person when I’m out of work). He said, “Yesterday, I think you said that your salary requirement was $Y, but I didn’t write it down (yes he did), so I can’t remember. Am I correct? That is it?”

I said yes, and he said, “You’re sure? OK. Just checking.”

I didn’t get the job. My mother and boyfriend said I clearly missed the signal he was sending out – like, if I had said, “No, actually a lower salary is fine,” I would have had a better chance. Unfortunately, I’m someone who tends to take people at their word, and quite literally – not always a good thing. What do you think was going on?

It’s possible that your mother and boyfriend are right and that’s what he was doing — but that would be a pretty weird move for him to pull, weird enough that it wouldn’t be the first thing I’d assume. I’d be more inclined to take what he said at face value and think he couldn’t find it in his notes or the way he wrote it wasn’t clear.

Recruiters have a lot of experience saying, “That’s out of our range. Would you consider $Z instead?” It’s not a conversation that they generally feel awkward about or that they need to cloak in code; they generally just say it straight out.

4. Temp agency is handling our temp’s payroll wrong

I work at a charity, and recently, for the first time, we contracted with a temp agency to bring in an office employee to cover a permanent staff member’s leave. She’s working out great! But I have some concerns about the agency’s payroll compliance. I’ve come up against something that is more serious, and I’m wondering where my responsibility lies.

In my jurisdiction, overtime pay kicks in at either >8 hrs per day or >40 hrs per week, unless there’s an averaging agreement. The temp is on 37.5 hours/week, and on one day last week, she worked a total of 12 hours.

The payroll person at the agency says she’s only getting 2 hours of overtime, because the rest falls under 40 hours! I confirmed with our in-house payroll person that this is incorrect.

I’m mulling whether to just warn the temp and leave it with her, or to contact our sales rep at the agency, or to reply directly to the payroll person (who frankly is as thick as a truckload of telephone poles) or to just leave it. The temp is from another country and young, and I feel a moral obligation not to let her get ripped off.

Please say something! You have an ethical duty to speak up, and it’s important that this payroll agency hear from clients that they want things done legally. (And if, as likely, the person you’re dealing with there just doesn’t know the law, it’s good to educate her.) It doesn’t have to be a big deal; you can just say something like, “Actually, state law requires overtime pay for any hours over eight in a single day, so in this case she’s owed overtime for four hours. Can you confirm that correction on your end?”

5. Manager’s scheduling is interfering with my schoolwork

I’m still in high school, and I started a job at Burger King. I told the manager that I couldn’t work past 8 p.m. and only three days a week, to which he agreed. Unfortunately, I could tell things were going to be bad right off. The new manager (he was transferred just before I was hired) was extremely incompetent. The largest schedules he got out were only one day ahead, and so if you didn’t work that day, you wouldn’t know when you worked next until you were late, as he would oftentimes change my schedule or schedule me without even letting me know. The only time I would figure it out is when one of the lower managers (who were great, but also upset) called to let me know once I was late. Also, right out the gate, he had me working much longer than we had agreed.

So today, I told him I wouldn’t be able to make it because I had four days of homework piled up, as I hadn’t been able to work on it out of my small amount of free time I had in school, and he told me that if I didn’t show up for work today then I wouldn’t have a job. I ended up not showing up, as I’m not going to put my Burger King job over my education, even doubly so if the manager is absolutely terrible. So here I am tonight, angry, annoyed, frustrated, stuck with lots of homework and jobless, and my mother having most of the same emotions. So I wanted to ask if he’s allowed to hinder my education and hold me accountable when I decline to come in because doing so would harm my grades. Monday marks the end of the grading period too, which gives me little time turn in late work (as I will have plenty).

Well, yes. Your employer can indeed require you to work even if you have homework or otherwise need time for school. Good employers that want to hire students will be flexible with them to a point, but even good employers won’t be thrilled if you call out the day you’re scheduled (without more advance notice) because of homework. They expect you to figure out how you’ll balance work and school before you take the job.

That said, this guy sounds horrible and I don’t blame you for disliking the way he operates. But your beef here should be with the bad scheduling and the ignoring your agreed-upon hours, not with his telling you to come in on a day you were scheduled for.