Ask a Manager

This is a transcription of the Ask a Manager podcast, episode 11: “Am I Showing Off at Work?”.

Alison: Hi, I’m Alison Green. Welcome to the Ask a Manager podcast. Some of you may know me from my website, AskAManager.org, where I answer daily questions from readers about how to navigate all sorts of sticky situations with coworkers, managers, and employees. Each week on the show I’ll take calls and talk directly with listeners about the toughest, most frustrating, or just plain weirdest work predicaments they’re facing. I’ll help you figure out what to do and say to handle these situations successfully and get the outcomes you want. So let’s get started.

Alison: Before I bring on today’s guest, I’m excited to let you know that this episode is brought to you by Girls’ Night In, whose weekly newsletter – delivered to your inbox every Friday – curates all the best reads and recommendations for your night in. Ask a Manager is going to be featured in their newsletter this Friday answering questions about self-care and wellness in the workplace. You can sign up for it at GirlsNightInClub.com to check that out. Also, stay tuned for a couple of special announcements right after the interview with this week’s guest.

This week’s letter gets into the reality that it can be hard to figure out the balance between making sure that you’re getting appropriate recognition at work, but not being overly self-promotional. Our guest this week struggles with wanting to show off at work and she’s trying to figure out why and how to keep it under control. Hi and welcome to the show.

Guest: Thank you for having me.

Alison: Why don’t you start by reading the letter that you sent to me and then we’ll talk about it?

Guest: Sure, thanks. I wrote: Hi Alison. I have a question about how to change a strong urge I have to show what I know at work. For some background, I am 32 years old and have been working in a professional setting since I was 16. I have held many positions from dishwasher to lobbyist and from school teacher to public contract administrator. I hold advanced degrees and consider myself of average intelligence for the industries in which I work. I work very hard, am very productive, and produce good outputs.

For as long as I can remember, though, it has been a struggle not to squeal with excitement when someone in a meeting brings up something I know well, someone I know or knew professionally, or generally show off that I have a skill or a piece of information. Sometimes a colleague will bring something up that I want to desperately comment on, but it wouldn’t be appropriate in the time and place – and I almost can’t take in any more information because I’m trying to stop myself from shouting, “I know about that! I know about that!” I even recognize when others do it and silently roll my eyes. I appreciate when others show what they know in a natural way, not in the contrived way I often want to do it.

My question is, is this common? How can I get myself to relax and trust that others know or will find out on their own that I’m smart and capable without showing off?

Alison: I love this question. There’s something very disarming about it. I have a bunch of questions for you, and the first one is: did you find yourself doing this in school too, or has it just been with work?

Guest: When I was younger, I think I struggled with wanting to do this in my social life at school, wherever I was. I luckily have been able to kind of curb that in my personal life. In my twenties I must have had some sort of an epiphany, or maybe I recognized something like this in another person, but in general I think I’ve struggled with this in other aspects of my life. And luckily now in my thirties, I feel like I finally narrowed it down to I’ve only been doing it in the workplace.

Alison: Are you someone who really thrives on praise and recognition? Like when someone compliments your work, do you replay that moment in your head a lot and savor it?

Guest: I do – though it’s funny, I sort of have this duality to my personality. I don’t love recognition in general. As matter of fact, when my boss recognizes me publicly in front of the group, I kind of turn into a wallflower or a shrinking violet. It’s an interesting duality and it’s hard to understand on my own. I love recognition, though I always hope for it to be subtle. So it’s an interesting dilemma I’m in here.

Alison: Yeah, that’s interesting.

Guest: Yeah.

Alison: What is your sense of how people see you at work in general? Do you feel like people really respect you and see you as someone who’s really great at your job, or do you feel more like you want them to see you that way but it’s not quite there yet?

Guest: Well, it’s hard to say. There are two aspects to my job. I am in organizational leadership, so I work with a lot of executives. I present to legislative committees to our governing body, and I get amazing praise there. I’m in Toastmasters, so I feel I’m a good presenter. I’m asked to present a lot, I’m asked to deliver our data to the governing body a lot. The other part of my job though is working with some street-level bureaucrats and, without going into my industry, the people who actually deliver the services to the job – those are the groups where I feel I don’t get any respect or any love, like I have to really prove myself to them.

Alison: I think there’s something there – that at some level, with some groups, you are looking for a way to prove yourself. Maybe it’s not so much about showing off as it is about just proving what you know to be true and that they’re not recognizing, which is that you are good enough.

Guest: Yeah, I think there’s definitely an element to that. It’s very male dominated in my industry, much more so than I think a lot of people experience. So I kind of as a woman feel like I have to push harder, and other women in my position have agreed with that.

Alison: Yeah. And I feel like if you’re always having to battle to prove yourself to some of these people, it’s not surprising that you’re feeling this pull to call attention to your knowledge and your competence, especially as a woman in a male dominated environment. I guess I would ask though, do you think that is winning them over? Have you seen signs that when you do have a chance to demonstrate your competence, does it seem to change how they see you?

Guest: When it’s natural and when I can do something that is improving the organization, when they can see that I’ve shown up, that I’ve come to the street level to do my job as well – I do. I actually do feel I get the respect. And I kind of look at it as, I’m making deposits in a relationship, if you would, before I start making withdrawals. I am aware that I can’t just, as an administrator, show up to the street level and just expect results and expect respect. I do feel that I knew enough to at least lay the foundation first, so I’m getting there.

Alison: And do you think, in the times when it’s not so much about really making direct improvements that impact them – when it’s more like, you’re sitting in a meeting and you have the answer to something and you want to make that clear – do you see signs that that changes how they see you? Or is that more of a neutral?

Guest: I think that’s probably more neutral. I kind of am aware that experienced managers would know, obviously, that something is contrived and unnatural, so I really have to sit on my hands. The reason I wrote to you was because in a meeting, somebody brought up a major player in our industry who I worked with in a previous city and I had to stop myself from going, “Oh my God, I know that person, and I worked with that person, and I know their projects,” because really that’s not – who cares? It really was just a natural, and I wasn’t listening to the rest of the meeting because I was trying to stop myself from doing that.

Alison: Yeah.

Guest: And I know that managers can see through that.

Alison: I think in some ways, part of this might be a losing battle. You might be far happier if you decide that you’re just not going to play that game with them, about trying to prove that you’re competent. You are competent, and you’re going to do your work and you’re going to get recognized by higher-ups whose opinions matter – and by these people too, when you do something that actually has a positive impact on their work. And if they’re not interested in seeing the value that you bring beyond that, that’s their problem, but it doesn’t have to be yours. To be clear, it would be your problem if they were your boss – if they had input into your performance reviews and salary levels and assignments. But if they don’t, it might be that the healthiest thing for you, the thing that’s best for your overall happiness at work, is to try to get yourself into a mental space where you really do see it as their problem, not yours. And I know that’s easier said than done.

Guest: Sure. I think that’s definitely where I was hoping to get to and kind of where I figured you would help lead me to. I remember a few years back you had given a great piece of advice during interviews: not to ask questions of the panel just to show that you know something. And I was definitely, definitely guilty of that, and I took that piece of advice to heart. I stopped doing that and I got much more natural responses in my interviews after that. So it’s true and I’ve definitely seen it in action.

Alison: And let me ask you this, when we were emailing a little bit about your question before the show, you mentioned that you think some of this might also come from your father. Are you comfortable talking a little bit about that?

Guest: Oh, sure. Yeah. My father, who was a very wonderful and intelligent person, I think a lot of this could have been modeled behavior from him. When we were growing up he delivered lessons in a very, very contrived way and still to this day when having daily conversations, he’ll use terms that he thinks the other person might not know, so he’ll just stop without solicitation and define terms for people. So, this has been happening my whole life and I’m terrified that that’s what I’m turning into because it’s pretty obvious to those around him – it’s not so obvious to him. But it’s also very frustrating. It makes you feel like you’re stupid and he has to explain things to you, or he must think you’re stupid because he has to explain things to you. So I never want people around me to feel like I’m pretentious or snobby, or trying to show what I know.

Alison: It doesn’t sound like you’re doing that at all based on what you’ve described. Unless there’s a whole piece to this that we haven’t talked about, it doesn’t sound like that’s what’s happening, but I do wonder if maybe the way your dad was doing that, having that as a model growing up may have sort of wired into you an idea of, this is what expertise looks like – and maybe that’s what’s coming out now.

Guest: I think you’re probably right and what an interesting thing to almost hate a quality in another person that you yourself have. I think that’s very probably Freudian, if you will.

Alison: It’s so common, I think.

Guest: I think it must be.

Alison: Yeah, I think it is. And I also think that the way to drain the power that that wiring has over us – all of us – is to really spot it. To be able to say, “Aha, I see where this is coming from. I see why these are the lessons that I learned.” And once you realize that that’s where they came from, it’s not that these things that you believe – in your case, about what expertise looks like – it’s not that they’re some sort of unalterable truth, it’s that they stem very directly from something that was modeled for you as a kid. Sometimes it makes it a lot easier to take a different path.

Guest: Oh, I think that’s absolutely right. And I think that would help me do some sort of cognitive behavioral stuff where if I recognize this urge – and it does present itself in a physical, “stop, stop saying anything, sit on your hands and shut up” – when I recognize that I’m doing that, I’m certain that I can kind of relax myself and take your advice to heart.

Alison: Good, good, that’s great. That’s big internal work to do and it’s not something that you’ll change overnight, but I think that will really put you on the right path. But I think there’s practical tips too. One thing to do when you get that urge to call out in a meeting that you know something, it might help to have something else to do with your energy in that moment. So maybe you can put your energy into observing how the speaker is presenting their information. Are there things that you can learn from how they’re framing it? Are there things you would do differently yourself or tips that you can take away from what they’re saying in that moment? Maybe you can give yourself the challenge of finding something in what the person is saying that you don’t know, which will make you listen more intently and hopefully tamp down a little bit on that desire to tell everyone what you know.

Guest: Oh, that’s really great advice. The people I work with are absolute experts in their fields, so certainly I can pick something every day from them that I could be focusing more of my attention on. And I’m a good note taker, so I know that I can be focusing that physical energy in my hand to taking notes, instead of trying to sit on my hands to stop from hollering out.

Alison: Perfect. I love that. And especially because you had mentioned sometimes this urge is so distracting that you do stop paying attention to what’s being said. This will be the exact opposite of that and that might be great.

Guest: That’s great advice, thank you so much. I think I can easily put that into practice and I’m currently in Toastmasters, so my brain is already wired for observation, so it’s funny that I hadn’t considered that yet, but you’re absolutely right.

Alison: Good.

Guest: Yeah.

Alison: And I think too, there’s just a real power in saying, this is behavior that isn’t serving you well, and I want to work to change it. And often by getting really clear in your head about what you’re doing and what you don’t like about it and starting to think through, well what I’m aiming for is X or Y instead, that’s often a really good first step to just making it happen.

Guest: Okay. That’s great advice. I can easily do that. I’m very goal-oriented, goal-driven, so I think that’d be easy for me to put into practice.

Alison: I think the part about your dad is really interesting and there’s probably something there to unravel if you’re up for doing it.

Guest: I agree. At the back of my mind, I always knew that this probably came from modeled behavior, just because it’s so emotional in my personal life, growing up with that sort of thing. It was pretty obvious to me when you started asking me the questions that that was probably where it was coming from.

Alison: Yeah. That’s how this stuff works. (Laughs) It remains shrouded in mystery until the first time you look at it and then you think, “Oh, of course.”

Guest: Right.

Alison: Well, thank you for coming on.

Guest: Thank you for having me.

Alison: Before we wrap up, I have two announcements to make. First, speaking of showing off at work, my new book published today and I’m so excited to tell you about it, though I promise to be brief. It’s called Ask a Manager: How to Navigate Clueless Colleagues, Lunch-Stealing Bosses, and the Rest of Your Life at Work, and it’s all about potentially tricky conversations you might need to have at work. It’ll give you advice on things like how to frame your concerns to your boss so that you get taken seriously, ways to get what you want from coworkers, how to talk to employees when you’re the boss, and loads of specific suggestions for a whole range of situations you might find yourself in: everything from how to handle a coworker who isn’t pulling her weight, to what to say when you totally messed up in an interview. It goes on sale today and it’s available everywhere books are sold, so be sure to get a copy today. Also, I am going to be taking a brief hiatus from this show to promote my book for the rest of the month, but stay tuned for a bonus episode that I’ll be releasing during this short break and I’ll be back very soon with more advice to help you navigate your trickiest challenges and dramas at work.

Alison: Thanks for listening to the Ask a Manager podcast, produced in conjunction with Penguin Random House and Anchor. If you liked what you heard, please take a minute to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Google Play. If you’d like to ask a question on the show, email it to podcast@askamanager.org.

Thanks for listening! I’m Alison Green, and I’ll be back soon.

Transcript provided by MJ Brodie.

You can see past podcast transcripts here.