my coworker isn’t willing to tell a teenager helper that he’s accidentally killing all our fish

by Alison Green on March 18, 2025

A reader writes:

I work in the five-person office of a large pre-school. My colleague, Amy, keeps a five-gallon fish tank near her desk with between two and four fish in it. The tank is in full view of the office door and the lobby beyond. The fish are important to the school; when our young students are overwhelmed and need to calm down, the office fish are often their first stop with their teachers, and “saying hi” is often enough to stop a crying jag. The kids love watching the brightly colored fish, who all have fun names, and Amy loves them, too. She takes great care of the fish, arranging feedings with others when she’ll be out of the office, making sure the tank’s heater and filter work properly at all times, and generally being a pretty good fish parent for someone who isn’t a hobbyist fish-keeper. I am not a fish person myself, but I love animals and have close friends who are extremely passionate about their aquariums, so I’ve absorbed a lot of knowledge from them, enough to know what constitutes good fish care, and have passed along tips when appropriate.

Amy pays a teenager, Jake, who is the son of one of our longtime teachers, to clean the tank at regular intervals. Jake is polite, friendly, and seems to care about doing a good job. Except … multiple times now, fish have died within a few days of a tank cleaning. It’s not clear what the exact issue is with the tank, but I suspect the cleaning chemicals are not properly rinsed out or the tank water is otherwise chemically unbalanced.

Most recently, after a mass fish casualty event, the tank was cleaned, left empty to filter for a week or so, and finally, on Tuesday, brought three fish and a snail straight from the pet store. She let them acclimate to the tank temp in their bags for a while, as recommended, and then loosed them in the water. Thursday morning, less than 48 hours later, two of the three fish died before the school day was over.

After the previous deaths, Amy and I were talking about it and she was very sad about her fish, and concerned that a fish would die without her noticing and a child would see the dead fish in the tank. That’s always been a possibility, of course, but now it seems like an inevitability. I named the pattern I was seeing with Jake’s cleanings and she said she had noticed the same. I gently suggested that maybe Jake doesn’t clean the tank anymore and she agreed that it was a problem … but she would feel bad telling him he couldn’t do it anymore and causing him to lose out on the spending money he earns. As far as I know she intends to have Jake continue cleaning the tank and has not spoken to him (or his mom) about the deaths despite the frequency, and the monetary and emotional cost of replacing the fish so often. We haven’t yet spoken about the new deaths.

I feel like this situation is a product of the “they’re just fish” mindset so many have that treat pet fish as disposable and replaceable, and easily avoidable with one slightly awkward conversation. I feel like my hands are tied here, because they’re not my fish, it’s not my money, and I am not Amy’s supervisor, but it’s a huge downer every time. My boss doesn’t seem like a good choice for any sort of intervention, because she treats her own office fish as disposable. Do I have any recourse here to push for a change, or should I let go and let Amy handle it as she sees fit?

I think you have not only standing to speak up, but an ethical obligation to speak up!

Amy is knowingly putting living creatures into a situation where they’re likely to die within days and the only reason she’s not doing anything to stop it is because she wants to avoid a mildly awkward conversation with a teenager.

Primarily this is horrible to the fish, but it’s also pretty unkind to Jake — she’s assuming that he would rather go on being responsible for killing fish (assuming that is indeed what’s happening) than handle hearing “hey, we need to do something differently with how we’re cleaning the tank.” This is not such a sensitive message to deliver that she should need to tiptoe around it to this extent. And it’s good for teenagers to learn things. This is something Jake would probably want to know.

If Amy really can’t bring herself to have a pretty basic, straightforward conversation with a teenager, then she needs to stop buying more fish. The kids will survive that if that’s the decision; that’s far preferable to continuing to throw their much loved fish friends into what appears to be a near-instant death chamber.

So please, talk to Amy again! Maybe you can say, “I think Jake would feel really awful if he ever realizes what’s happening and that no one just educated him about how to fix the problem. And I don’t think we can ethically continue keeping fish without fixing it. Personally I feel really awful seeing fish killed like that, and I think Jake would strongly prefer to get some guidance on keeping them alive, if it is an issue with the chemicals. If you really don’t want to talk to him, I think we have to stop putting fish in there.” If you’re up for it, you could add, “I feel strongly about it so I’m willing to help talk with him if you want me to.”

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{ 265 comments }

{ 265 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Miette*

    If the fish are to stay, perhaps Amy should also ask the folks at the pet store or some other person with fish experience what may be going wrong too? It’s not on Jake that the fish are dying–it’s on whatever instructions he’s been given. Amy seems to be mismanaging this entire thing.

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    1. CityMouse*

      Honestly a decent pet store would quit selling Amy fish. Now many pet stores aren’t terribly ethical, unfortunately.

      Reply ↓
      1. Apples and Oranges*

        It’s hard to keep aquarium fish alive. They eat each other, get diseases, die from something just going off with the chemicals or the heat. Plus hobbyists often have multiple tanks and are adding fish all the time. There’s no earthy way someone coming back frequently to buy fish is going to raise ANY red flags with a pet store.

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        1. HailRobonia*

          This. When people say “fish tanks are relaxing” they really mean OTHER people’s fish tanks are relaxing.

          When I kept fish it was always “is this algae spreading too much? why is that fish swimming weird? who is the fin biter? is there ich in the tank?” the list goes on and on and on.

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          1. Apples and Oranges*

            Not to mention the horror of visiting your fish in the morning and seeing a tail sticking out of the mouth of one of your supposedly “peaceful” fish. Carnage!

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            1. Lab Boss*

              One of my friends used to have a large tank with large fish that was… USUALLY peaceful. But now and then we’d be sitting around playing video games and hear the telltale thrashing splash, followed by him leaping to his feet yelling “Which one of you hungry f******…”

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              1. Dek*

                Our two in college never fought, they just enjoyed interior decorating.

                By which I mean they would move the large glass “rocks” amid the smaller rocks around the tank.

                Alternated between soothing and annoying.

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                1. Wendy Darling*

                  I had an angelfish whose hobby was shredding any live plant I had the temerity to place in his tank.

                  I don’t keep fish anymore.

            2. Elitist Semicolon*

              In third grade I had three guppies and a platy that came from a class project. One morning my mother went into the living and found one guppy in the tank and the platy, dead, on the chair a few feet away. Best we can tell, it ate two of the guppies and then yeeted itself towards a slow death.

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          2. MsM*

            Yeah, the more I learn from people who are serious about fish care, the more convinced I become that you should have to take some kind of certification class and pass a credit check to prove you can buy all the specialized equipment before they’ll let you care for anything more complex than a guppy.

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            1. JustCuz*

              Fish are not easy pets, and anyone I have ever known (myself included), learns very quickly how fast things go south. This teenager is not the problem, and I do disagree with some of this advice given here. Figure out the problem first. Review the steps you gave the kid, try them out yourself, and see what happens. There is no reason to go straight to a conversation with someone doing something you taught them to do without looking into the process you gave them first. Secondly, expectations over the feasibility of keeping so many different fish alive in one environment need to be explained to the staff.

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              1. Lisa Simpson*

                They are tricky, too, because they don’t remind you they need care. If I forget to feed my cat, she will literally sink her claws into my scalp until I feed her. Fish do not self-advocate like that.

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          3. Kevin Finnerty*

            This is so real. During COVID I started keeping fish as a calming hobby, but ultimately it was money suck and kind of traumatic. Not as promised!

            Reply ↓
          4. andy*

            It really is not that bad unless you have super small aquarium. Properly setup it is the least demanding pet.

            Reply ↓
        2. CityMouse*

          My brother worked at a pet store and they’d refuse to sell fish or other animals to people who described inadequate set ups. For specialty and hard to care for fish they’d ask about setups. But this was a small specialty store.

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        3. Antilles*

          Especially because “frequently” very much depends on who’s there. Sure, to you, going to the pet store every two weeks feels like a lot, but on the store’s end?
          Between your March 1st and March 17th visits, that cashier has seen literally hundreds of customers; your purchase of two goldfish is completely forgettable…assuming it’s even the same cashier working on both days.

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        4. Worldwalker*

          Actually, it’s easy to keep fish alive if you do it right. The issue is that very few people do it right. They don’t so much as watch a YouTube video on fish keeping — they just buy some fish, put them in the tank, and feed them when they think about it. Generally with the wrong water parameters, the wrong food, the wrong temperature, and the wrong tankmates.

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      2. Nomic*

        Huh? I bought fish at the pet store to feed to my fish. Was that unethical? The store is there to sell fish, and to help people keep fish alive as long as possible.

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        1. Apples and Oranges*

          It’s normal. Also you get cheap “starter” fish that you know are likely to die when you set up the tank until the tank is balanced. I guess maybe the whole enterprise is unethical. I haven’t had a tank since I was a teenager and didn’t ponder such ethical questions when I was that young.

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          1. Burnzie*

            No you don’t kill deliberately kill fish to set up a tank. Fish less cycling should not even be considered the gold standard, just the bare minimum. The fact that fish were added again a couple of days after emptying the entire tank is likely why they died again. Cycle the tank properly, confirm all OK with an API kit, then buy fish.

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            1. Apples and Oranges*

              That’s how the pet store told me to do it! Granted that was 20+ years ago. Filled up with Zebra Danios…many of them died. I haven’t had a tank since so I dunno.

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              1. Dahlia*

                This is a reminder of why we don’t take advice from pet store employees. They don’t know! They’re not trained on pet care.

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          3. Rainy*

            No, you don’t cycle tanks with “starter” fish that are doomed, what the hell.

            If you already have a setup, you cycle the tank with an inoculation of gravel, plants, and waste water from an existing tank. If you don’t, you get everything set up and you either use a bought bacteria inoculation or you add a single animal that will bring friendly bacteria but not overwhelm the tank while the bacterial culture is establishing itself.

            I moved a thousand miles this summer and brought my fish with me. Didn’t lose a single one.

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    2. Meemur*

      I thought the same thing. The employees at my local pet store LOVE to teach about proper care and handling because they genuinely love their animals. Maybe Amy could take Jake along next time and get some expert advice

      Reply ↓
    3. Smithy*

      Yeah – making this a “Jake is the problem” dynamic is actually really sad when the reality is that Amy isn’t investing in getting herself and/or Jake the education to clean the tank properly.

      As a teen, I would cat sit this elderly cat when our neighbors would go on vacation, and it genuinely was the most money I’d make from any job all year. If I learned that anything I was doing while cat sitting was harming this cat – I would have desperately wanted to know what to do differently. I say this not as an animal lover, and definitely not a lover of geriatric incontinent elderly cats, but as a young person who wanted to do a good job, follow rules correctly, not harm living things, as well as keeping paychecks.

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      1. Annie*

        Geriatric Incontinent Elderly Cats is a band name! Haha.

        It’s also from the Office of Redundancy Office.

        But I agree, you would want to do a good job even if you’re not killing animals by doing a poor job.

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        1. Smithy*

          That is hilarious – if entirely unintentional!

          If in a very rudimentary way, having a job like this as a teen is often about building confidence and getting some money. And a big part of that confidence is built via helping someone identify they’re doing a good job. They said to do XYZ, I did XYZ – they’re happy, I feel better about my abilities in these types of environments, etc.

          Inevitably as a young person you’ll have one of those teen jobs – either baby or pet sitting, or retail/food service/ seasonal work and you’re let go or not invited back and have no idea why. And this isn’t to say that it can’t be its own lesson, but it genuinely does not help anyone build confidence.

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      2. Bird names*

        This. Thanks for sharing and adding to Alison’s concern regarding Jake. He’ll very likely want to do better. Right now he can’t do that since Amy is avoiding the conversation.

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    4. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      This. Amy has responsibility here, too. She showed Jake how to clean the tank. Did she give him correct information? The fish died after Jake cleaned the tank. Jake cleaned the tank after Amy showed him how, correct?
      She might not want to have a conversation with him because she has no new information to give him.
      after reading,” left empty to filter for a week or so, and finally, on Tuesday, brought three fish and a snail straight from the pet store. She let them acclimate to the tank temp in their bags for a while, as recommended, and then loosed them in the water.”
      is the tank or some component in the tank bad? A conversation with Jake might discover this is what’s going on.

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      1. Rainy*

        If she’s putting multiple fish simultaneously into an uncycled tank, of course they’re dying.

        Now, if fish are *also* dying after Jake cleans the tank, I suspect what’s happening is that she thinks you clean a tank by emptying it, scrubbing it out, filling it up with plain water (hopefully dechlorinated? dear gods), and then plunking multiple fish back into it and of course they are dying. Even if he’s not using soap (oh please tell me she knows you don’t clean a fishtank with SOAP), what’s basically happening is that every time the tank has a chance to develop a population of the necessary bacteria, the tank is being emptied, scrubbed, and refilled.

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    5. Landry*

      Yes, I do think some expert advice is needed. LW doesn’t say it explicitly, but it sounds like the fish dying is a more recent development after Jake became involved. It’s worth it to explore what he’s doing differently than whoever was cleaning the tank before. I don’t think it’s on him either, but it seems like something has changed under his process.

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    6. goddessoftransitory*

      I have to agree. She seems to have done okay on her own, but at the least she’s not communicating effectively with someone on how to do their job. That’s a skill she NEEDS to learn if she’s going to manage people, whether or not the stakes are as high as “these creatures will die if procedures aren’t followed.”

      If I found out that, accidentally or not, my actions had resulted in animal deaths I would feel horrible.

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      1. Observer*

        That’s a skill she NEEDS to learn if she’s going to manage people, whether or not the stakes are as high as “these creatures will die if procedures aren’t followed.”

        Agreed!

        That’s not entirely the LW’s job. But it is a reality, and if the LW talks to their boss, it’s not unreasonable to have that in the back of their mind.

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    7. Dahlia*

      I’d recommend not asking anyone at the pet store. Reminder, they don’t get any specialty training. Some employees may be pet enthusiasts on their own time, but they’re just retail employees.

      Look for actual fish experts.

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    8. Artemesia*

      I don’t understand why after the first fish kill there was not an immediate investigation into changes that might have killed them and if necessary pet store advice for the future. You don’t go on business as usual when you are killing living creatures.

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  2. CityMouse*

    I agree completely with everything Alison said here. Amy choosing to let animals die rather than do a modicum of troubleshooting is cruel to the animals and terrible to Jake. This is not a kind choice to make at all. What if Jake, thinking he knows what he is doing, does this somewhere else and kills expensive fish? He could end up in big trouble.

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    1. Rogue Slime Mold*

      Terrible to Jake is where my focus goes. You could tell him what’s happening and involve him in the solution. (As Miette observes, the problem is likely that the instructions he is following are wrong.) But to just let him continue to fail, in a way the adults around him with authority recognize, is cruel.

      How crushing if he later learns that everyone viewed him as incompetent, yet also too fragile for anyone to address the problem, so they just let him keep messing up and pretending nothing happened.

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      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Hearing “we assumed you were too dumb and too emotionally fragile to absorb simple instructions or get corrected on something” certainly wouldn’t do much for my self esteem. Like, I would probably remember that decades later.

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    2. Beth*

      It’s absolutely terrible to Jake! Even if we assume Jake isn’t a fish lover and doesn’t want to keep his own fish, he probably would be upset to learn that 1) he’s causing mass animal death, 2) he’s causing the kids to lose their fish, and 3) he might lose this job, or might kill any other fish he starts caring for. Almost anyone would be upset by those things. It does him a disservice to assume that he doesn’t need or want to know what’s going on.

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    3. Cease and D6*

      And when – not if, when – Jake finds out that this is happening, it will be a terrible lesson for him to learn. People he presumably respects and looks up to are willing to let him fail indefinitely without telling him instead of giving him an opportunity to correct what he’s doing? That sort of thing can turn people into nervous wrecks in the long run, since they’ll be constantly worried that they’re making huge mistakes without anyone saying anything.

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      1. MigraineMonth*

        Seriously. Not being told I was messing it up and learning later would make me paranoid. What else do I think I’m good at but only because people are lying to me?

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    4. iglwif*

      I keep coming back to how Jake is going to feel when he eventually, inevitably, has this moment of realization. The sooner Amy tells him what’s going on, the less traumatized he’ll be, and the more she involves him in trying to find a solution (online research, talking to experts, etc.), the better for Jake AND the fish.

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  3. Audra*

    Instead of removing Jake entirely, is there a way that someone could clean with Jake for the next few times, going with him step-by-step to review the procedure? It’s possible that no one ever did that with him, and instead he was given instructions and went on his way. Maybe something was miscommunicated and he’s missing a crucial step?

    I really hope this gets solved! Best of luck.

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    1. Sleepysheep*

      This is my suggestion as well. I don’t think there’s a need to cut Jake from fish cleaning duties outright here. He seems like he’s trying to do a good job and as long as he’s willing to listen to correction then it’s likely the situation can be addressed by having him clean the tank with a more experienced person until everybody is comfortable that he’s able to keep the fish safe.

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      1. Saturday*

        Yeah, I feel like there’s a rush to blame Jake, and maybe he should just be supervised better for a cleaning or two.

        It’s not clear to me that Amy isn’t intending to do that. The letter just says, “she would feel bad telling him he couldn’t do it anymore and causing him to lose out on the spending money he earns.” That seems fine.

        This part seems odd to me: “[Amy] has not spoken to him (or his mom) about the deaths despite the frequency, and the monetary and emotional cost of replacing the fish so often.” Why start off telling him (and/or his mom) how awful it is that he’s killing the fish? As a first step, Amy should go through the cleaning steps with him again and try to figure out what’s going.

        There’s an assumption that Jake doesn’t care about dead fish that I don’t think is warranted.

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        1. Myrin*

          Regarding your “odd” part: I don’t think the part you quoted necessarily means telling him he’s killing the fish. Amy “has not spoken to him about the deaths”; saying “the fish keep dying, let’s see if there’s something going on with our cleaning products” is also “speaking about the deaths”.

          Reply ↓
          1. Saturday*

            I guess it was that she said she hadn’t talked with Amy about the recent deaths and as far as she knows Amy hadn’t talked to Jake. Amy didn’t like LW’s idea of taking Jake off cleaning duties entirely, but is it too soon to assume she isn’t going to do anything, like re-training Jake and trying to figure out what’s going on?

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    2. disconnect*

      +1. Either the procedure is inadequately documented, grossly incorrect, or not being followed. Each root cause has a slightly different corrective action, but if Jake is the person doing this procedure, you need to involve him in the solution.

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    3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I think it’s also possible to treat this as a “hmmm, this is weird” issue that everyone wants to solve. Amy, Jake, and anyone else can go get some learning opportunities with an expert.

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      1. MigraineMonth*

        Particularly since fish dying after the tank cleaning isn’t a smoking gun that Jake is definitely doing it wrong. It sounds like taking the fish out of the tank and reintroducing them after the tank is cleaned is pretty stressful on them. Maybe Amy gave him the wrong chemicals or instructions. It’s very possible this isn’t fully Jake’s responsibility.

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    4. Lab Boss*

      That’s what I thought- if he cares as much about doing a good job as OP says he seems to, there’s no reason to leap to firing him over a plausible mistake without digging in further and trying to fix it.

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    5. Delta Delta*

      I was thinking of this, as well. Maybe Jake has a blooming future in fish and aquarium management, and some kind training would be best for everyone. A) the fish will live, B) Jake will learn how to do it the right way, C) Jake will feel good about learning new skills, D) Jake will grow up to be a tropical fish expert and will teach other young people how to do it in the future. OK, maybe that’s a bit much, but you know what I mean.

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    6. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Amy is also completely missing the possibility that something has changed in the school’s water supply. Water treatment plants may have to vary at chemical levels widely depending on flooding levels.

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      2. Drinking water professional*

        Good point. If their water supply is required to disinfect their water, a switch from traditional chlorination to chloramine in the distribution system can make it a lot harder to keep fish.

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        1. Drinking water professional*

          Heck, even a new requirement to disinfect would mean you might have to add a chlorine neutralizer even if they choose traditional chlorination.

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        2. Rainy*

          Not if you are using a dechlorinator, which you should be for water changes–modern dechlorinators are meant for both chlorine and chloramine. The biggest change in my experience is that when most city water was treated with chlorine, you *could* just let your water sit for a few days with an airstone in it for circulation and the chlorine would break down and offgas, while chloramine is more stable and requires a treatment chemical to break down.

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    7. Lexie*

      It’s definitely possible that the way his interpreting the directions is not the way they were intended. If Amy wrote them down for him they would make complete sense to her and she may not realize that some of the phrases she used could have a different meaning to someone not familiar with the process.

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  4. CubeFarmer*

    You absolutely have to speak up.

    This could be a great learning experience for Jake if it’s treated as an opportunity to collaborate on a solution and not cast blame. Instead of, “Jake, you are killing the fish,” it can be more, “Jake, can you take us through your cleaning process, step-by-step? We want to diagnose an issue with the tank that’s been happening.” It should be easy enough to see where Jake might not be rinsing enough or possibly needs to change up another part of the procedure.

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    1. Angstrom*

      Exactly. Don’t say the problem is Jake. Say that the problem is that the fish keep dying, and ask Jake if he can he help figure out why.

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    2. Clisby*

      Yes. And if that doesn’t help, the next stop should be to ask advice from the pet store. They’ve probably seen/heard it all before.

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    3. Beth*

      This for sure. It sounds like there’s a concerning correlation between tank cleanings and mass fish death, but no one’s actually confirmed that Jake’s doing anything wrong with the cleaning! It could just as easily be an ancillary issue (something with the place they’re stored while the tank is cleaned, for example). Having someone who knows what they’re doing walk through the cleaning process with Jake is a great way to diagnose the problem for real, which lets you actually fix it.

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      1. Letter Writer*

        LW here!

        I think we can infer it’s a tank cleaning/water imbalance issue, as the fish that most recently died were put directly into the (recently cleaned) tank from the pet store and were not stored anywhere except their plastic bags in the time between leaving the store and putting them in the tank. The only other cause I could see of a quick death in this situation is some sort of environment shock/not enough time to acclimate, or else a concerning health problem affecting all of this pet store’s neon tetras.

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        1. Andromeda Carr*

          There’s also the new water — has it been conditioned? straight-from-the-tap water can kill fish, believe it or not.

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        2. Burnzie*

          Was the tank cycled? Your original post seems to suggest that it was fully cleaned (I hope this doesn’t mean filters thrown away and new added!) and then left for a couple of days. Tanks need to be cycled fully, using an API kit to confirm this has happened, and then fish can be added.

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          1. Rainy*

            I’m worried, due to the lack of specificity and obvious ignorance about fish, that the tank is being cleaned completely rather than “cleaned” as is standard in fishkeeping, which does not involve emptying and refilling the tank!!!!

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        3. Beth*

          Ok, but “the pet store had some disease in their tank that the purchaser didn’t know about” and “environment shock in water that hasn’t been through a full nitrogen cycle” are both known things that routinely kill fish.

          I appreciate that it seems *likely* that there’s something going on with the cleaning. I agree that the trend points that way. But I don’t think you know *for sure* what’s causing this–whether it’s failing to rinse chemicals, or improper cycling, or something else entirely–and that makes it hard to solve. Having an expert monitor the entire process and ensure it’s done right is a good approach for that.

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        4. Eldritch Office Worker*

          Being transferred to a new tank is the most common time fish die, for all the reasons you listed and many more.

          I don’t mean this to sound unkind, but I think you should get rid of the aquarium. I don’t think any of you really know what you’re doing. It’s not your job to know how maintain an aquarium that’s fine, but it’s more complicated than you seem to understand and there’s no reason to potentially subject children to dead fish or keep spending this amount of money and energy to keep the tank stocked due to ignorance or negligence.

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        5. KatAlyst*

          LW/OP just in case you’re tracking your own replies but unable to get to all-the-everything, there were useful & informed replies by fish-keeper-people under screen name Bruce that I flagged & further down (depending on sorting, both 11-something today) by Juicebox Hero*

          …probably better to give you names to search than paste-clutter…

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        6. T.N.H*

          As we said below, you shouldn’t be replacing all of the water for a regular cleaning. Is he fully emptying and refilling the tank? If so, that could be the problem. You need to condition the tap water then cycle it before adding fish. Once they’re established, you should only do partial water changes unless something extreme happens.

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        7. Jane*

          I don’t know anything about fish but I definitely don’t think that this pattern clearly indicates that the way the cleaning process is being executed by Jake causes fish death.

          It could be a) Jake is executing the process perfectly, but the cleaning process itself is problematic b) the fundamental setup or something else intrinsic to the office environment is not sufficiently conducive to life, irrespective of any cleaning process c) the source of the fish is flawed, any fish from that store are likely to die at any moment d) any combination of the above.

          What’s the longest fish have survived and what were the conditions when that happened?

          What about getting fake fish??

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      2. Snarky McSnarkerson*

        I also have a question. Is the tank being completely emptied for every cleaning? That seems a little excessive. when we had a small tank (10 gallons) we would only completely empty it like every other month. maybe the wholesale dumping of everything is to blame? There’s good bacteria too.

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        1. Floppy Ear Dog*

          If this is what’s happening (and I read it that way as well) it’s almost entirely unnecessary to completely empty the tank EVER. IF they are dumping the tank out, washing it with soap, filling it back up and putting fish in it (especially if they are also putting a new filter in) they just… don’t understand the nitrogen cycle and need to stop getting fish altogether. I suspect this is a “Amy told Jake to do something, he’s doing it, and neither of them realize it’s absolutely the wrong way to take care of a fish tank.”

          Plus a 5 gallon tank is wildly inappropriate for ANY fish other than shrimp or MAYBE a single betta. Adding several fish and a snail to a tank that small is like putting a shark in your swimming pool.

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  5. Dust Bunny*

    OMG what is Amy’s deal?? Say something!

    You don’t have to be accusatory: You can just say, “Something we’re doing is going wrong so we’re going to stick to a very specific cleaning program so we can figure it out,” and then outline a very specific cleaning program, presumably with more thorough rinsing or whatever, and then you help/stealth supervise Jake for awhile until you know he’s doing it right so you can see if he’s accidentally part of the problem.

    Reply ↓
    1. Harried CEO*

      Yes, this. She can just say to Jake, “Hey – we’re changing the tank per the pet store’s recommendation. Here’s the new process. Let’s learn it together and then we’ll have it written down.”

      Reply ↓
    2. Dust Bunny*

      I would also ask some fish experts about this in case it’s something that the new fish are bringing from the pet store, that needs a different kind of cleaning or a specific product–or a different pet store–to solve.

      Reply ↓
      1. Clisby*

        Could the tank be improperly aerated? Is something wrong with the food? Yeah, the cleaning chemicals are a perfectly plausible reason, so making sure you’re doing that right is an obvious first step, but it’s also possible that it’s something else.

        Reply ↓
        1. Dust Bunny*

          I don’t know anything about fish but I assume that, yes, it could be, or just the stress of being moved during the cleaning could do in fish who were already not entirely healthy, or probably a lot of other things that aren’t occurring to me because I don’t have pet fish. They need to talk to someone who really does know about fish.

          Reply ↓
    3. Antilles*

      Seriously.
      I have no idea why Amy is jumping to “fire Jake and he no longer earns spending money” when it’s not even clear whether it’s even been mentioned there’s a problem! Assuming that Jake only visits the school when he’s doing the cleaning, it’s entirely possible that he just shows up every X weeks, uses the chemicals he thinks are the right ones, and isn’t aware that anything is going wrong.

      Reply ↓
  6. Hiring Mgr*

    Aren’t there instructions on how to clean the tank? If Jake is mistakenly adding the wrong chemicals or whatever, seems like an easy fix to just show him what to do

    Unless you suspect foul play?

    Reply ↓
    1. But Of Course*

      Going from “a teenager who, on balance of probability is not taking enough care with a step or has forgotten a step in cleaning the tank and no one wants to address it” to “Jake is a budding psychopath who is deliberately murdering fish” is QUITE a leap.

      Reply ↓
    2. Dust Bunny*

      Former veterinary assistant here: An astonishing percentage of “experienced” pet owners make an astonishing number of pet-care mistakes all the time. It’s far more likely that the tank cleaning isn’t being done properly than that he’s deliberately poisoning the fish.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lab Boss*

        I can second this- one of my oldest friends is a vet, and most times when we get together the first topic of conversation is “let me tell you about what wild things I’ve seen from the owners lately.”

        Reply ↓
    3. Letter Writer*

      LW here!

      No suspicion of foul play! In my mind, it’s a lack of education into the proper cleaning steps.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hiring Mgr*

        I was joking about that part! It seems simple enough to just make sure Jake’s trained properly – I don’t even think they need to replace him. He sounds like a responsible, mature intelligent kid so I think it’s an easy fix

        Reply ↓
      2. KatAlyst*

        LW JUST IN CASE YOU DIDN’T SEE IT:
        ” Bruce*
        March 18, 2025 at 11:10 am
        Longtime fish friend here. Aquariums can be notoriously challenging, especially if you are using tap water to fill them as the municipalities regularly change up what chemicals are used for disinfecting and none of them are good for fish in a confined space.

        Also, revisit the “cleaning chemicals” part – it is fairly rare that you would need to use chemicals in the cleaning of a tank, usually some scrubbing with a sponge is all that is needed and either rinsing out the bottom substrate or using a gravity siphon to suck out the gunk and leave the pebbles behind.

        Either way, testing the water after cleaning is a standard practice for any aquarium owner before reintroducing the fish, and that can be a good learning opportunity on how to test for pH, temperature, chlorine/chloramines, copper, ammonia, etc. When possible, it is also a good idea to not change the entire water volume at once – not really possible with a small bowl, but more for when you get into the 5-10 gallon tanks and larger – that helps keep things in better balance.”

        This sounds like the trained-steps are as likely to be the problem as Jake’s execution (sorry!) of the potentially-flawed process

        Reply ↓
      3. Observer*

        In my mind, it’s a lack of education into the proper cleaning steps.

        So why is the next step not having Jake do the cleaning? Why not, as many have suggested, make sure that Amy gets 100% clear on what needs to be done, then Amy makes sure that Jake has 100% of the information he needs?

        Reply ↓
      1. Hiring Mgr*

        Now that you mention it, Jake was the name of the main character in Chinatown, which revolved around water (where fish live) , and many people ended up dead. Maybe there’s more to this after all

        Reply ↓
  7. kiri*

    UGH this makes me so sad. I feel like there’s so much in our culture that treats fish as both decorative and disposable, as OP said (I HATE when TV shows do that, let alone when people in my real life do). But like – they’re living creatures! :( OP, thank you for your concern about this and I hope you can speak up for the fishies.

    Reply ↓
  8. Kittybutton*

    This is not on the teenager!!! A mature tank does not need to be cleaned with chemicals ever! They are harming the fish with this practice. They should be changing the water weekly (about a third to half of the tank), siphoning poop and debris, and scraping algae. That’s it!

    When the new fish died, it was because the “new” tank water was not mature. The nitrogen cycle had not occured because there was no poop/debris in the new tank. That’s why you are not supposed to fully replace the water.

    The LW is of course not expected to know any of this but Amy needs to learn. There are many YouTube videos that will teach her and honestly the teenager may be the perfect person to learn up from YouTube!

    Reply ↓
    1. Skytext*

      That was my thought! I don’t know anything about fish, except that my brother kept them when we were kids (and he was an excellent fish caretaker), and I don’t remember him ever “cleaning” the take as described in the letter. If you keep the pumps and filters clean and running, keep the water balanced, occasionally new water, scrape the algae off the sides (and you don’t even need to do that if you have snails to eat it), then the tank doesn’t need to be cleaned. Or maybe once a year or something. And never with chemicals! Just plain water.

      Reply ↓
    2. Apples and Oranges*

      Yes this! I am confused as to why chemicals were involved at all. if the tank is TOO clean that is not a good environment for fishies.

      Reply ↓
    3. Funko Pops Day*

      This also may be a good approach for the LW– approach it not as dealing with a problem with Jake but a “hey, I’ve been looking into tank care and I think we’re doing it wrong and need to try XX instead, let’s talk to Jake about trying the new procedure before he cleans it again”

      Reply ↓
    4. blupuck*

      Thanks for posting this!
      Just hearing chemicals and fish in the same sentence sent shivers down my spine.

      Speak to Jake and let him know there is an issue.
      If the budget allows, have him spend some time exploring proper fish care.
      It will be better for all involved.

      Reply ↓
    5. Nomic*

      This right here! My other thought besides this was temperature shock if the replacement water wasn’t near the right temperature, or if the fish weren’t allowed to acclimate before putting them back in the tank.

      None of this is on Jake, he needs better training.

      Reply ↓
    6. Rogue Slime Mold*

      YouTube is truly a brilliant resource for “You know what, someone else has had this problem. And it’s likely one of those people has taken the time to clearly explain the answer, including video of the steps.”

      Reply ↓
    7. Dinwar*

      “They should be changing the water weekly (about a third to half of the tank), siphoning poop and debris, and scraping algae. That’s it!”

      If you’re using tap water you either need to (very carefully) aerate it, set it out for a long time, or add chemicals to it. The reason is that we add chemicals to tap water–chlorine, for example–in part to prevent things growing in it. If you’re unaware of this, or don’t use the chemicals properly to remove the stuff we add to tap water, you’re basically replacing the water with poison. It’d be like filling your home with chlorine gas.

      I would also recommend adding a plecostomus or two (after increasing the tank size!!) to help with algae if it’s a freshwater tank. Doesn’t eliminate the need to remove it, but it does reduce the need. Plus, they’re cool-looking and kids like to watch them stick to the glass and eat the algae.

      Reply ↓
      1. xylocopa*

        I am not a fish owner and do not plan to become one because I’d be too stressed out by the level of worry over changes in the water–but if I ever DID have fish I would basically just want those guys. I love watching funky lil dudes stick to glass and eat algae.

        Reply ↓
        1. Two Fluffy*

          I keep several tanks with happy long-lived fish. One of my tanks is 5 1/2 gallons. Someone else mentioned that the tank has not run through the proper nitrogen/nitrate process—this is correct and likely the reason fish are dying. Once a tank this size is properly cycled, you should change 1/2 to 1/3 water once a week and add “Stress Coat” or a similar product to help eliminate the chlorine in your tap water. A 5 1/2 gallon tank can handle 3-5 small fish and maybe a mystery snail (no sucker fish as they get too big). There are great resources on YouTube on how to properly cycle a tank. This should be done with no fish in it! Once the tank is cycled, you change partial water and you can add fish. Feed very sparingly.

          Reply ↓
    8. Generic Name*

      Yes! There are tons and tons of websites, youtube videos, discussion boards, etc. specializing in aquarium maintenance. If Amy knows zilch about aquarium maintenance, it’s because she’s never bothered to do a google search or ask the people where she’s been buying her fish. If she can’t/won’t go to that minimal level of effort, she shouldn’t be keeping fish.

      Reply ↓
    9. T.N.H*

      I really hope LW sees this. I am a very low level fish expert and you absolutely cannot fully clean the fish tank basically ever definitely not with chemicals. Please please stop this practice LW! Your fish will never live until you do!!

      Reply ↓
    10. Burnzie*

      Yes this! What does OP mean by ‘cleaning’ as it doesn’t sound correct to me? When they wrote tank fully cleaned (I hope they didn’t throw the filter away!) then left for a couple of days, it’s no wonder the fish died.

      Reply ↓
    11. Meow*

      Are the fish dying specifically when Jake cleans the tank, or is it possible they are dying when the tank is cleaned in general? I echo what everyone else is saying about the chemicals too, but if they are removing the fish and scrubbing down the tank regularly… that’s a lot of stress for small fish.

      It’s also not unheard of for fish to die right after buying them (although not usually all of them…) every fish store I’ve been to will give you a replacement if you bring them a sample of your water. Then they can tell you what’s wrong, if anything, and wait till its corrected to give you new fish. It’s much easier to just buy the test strips and do it yourself though.

      And also, against all odds, I actually had no problem keeping a 5 gallon tank cycled when I had office fish. The ammonia was lower in that tank then our tap water. But we did have problems with fish in that small of a tank bullying each other, which wasn’t good for their health either.

      Reply ↓
    12. Peanut Hamper*

      Yep, very much this. The minute I read “chemicals” I thought “why the hell are they using chemicals to clean a fish tank?”

      Amy needs to learn the proper way to clean a fish tank, and then she needs to make sure Jake knows as well.

      Reply ↓
    13. Hroethvitnir*

      My addition at the top: not cleaning out the substrate (just suctioning out the big chunks) is what keeps the bacteria that break down waste alive. Never use detergents or other cleaning products, never empty the whole thing out, use an appropriate dechlorinator for new water.

      Thank you! Way too many people think “cleaning” a fish tank means emptying it regularly and scrubbing it out with detergent. Noooo.

      Beyond the fact that you should literally use zero cleaning agents (outside of very specific uses of bleach that are far too advanced for this situation), and dechlorinating new water, you should never empty it out unless *absolutely* necessary.

      Please look into the nitrogen cycle. Poor fish. :(

      Reply ↓
  9. Anna*

    Jake may not know what the best way to clean the tank is. I’m sure he doesn’t want to kill the fish. It seems like a missing step here is figuring out how to clean the tank without cleaning the fish – and that neither Amy or Jake know the answer to that. Is Jake supposed to?

    Reply ↓
    1. Typity*

      Yes, I wonder if he was given any guidance at all or it was more “Wanna job cleaning the fish tank?” If he’s been sheltered from the fish mortality rate, Jake may not understand that they are such fragile little creatures.

      Reply ↓
      1. Resentful Oreos*

        From reading some of the comments here, and having been a school kid with classroom pets, I think that it might well be “want a job cleaning the fish tank? Easy peasy!” I think a lot of people don’t know just how delicate and high maintenance fish really are. Or that other common classroom “pocket pets” have more complex requirements than a small wire cage and some commercial pellets.

        Reply ↓
  10. mango chiffon*

    Amy needs to speak up. A teenager should be able to have a conversation about this, and maybe Amy needs to supervise Jake’s cleaning of the tank a few times to see that he does it correctly.

    Reply ↓
  11. Sloanicota*

    Talk about throwing the fish-babies out with the bathwater. Amy just needs to talk it through with Jake and trouble-shoot the issue better. She doesn’t have to fire Jake if he’s willing to learn. It shouldn’t be hard to say, “Jake, I’m worried the cleaning chemicals are affecting the fish, can we try X or Y?” Also, trouble-shoot each stage of the cleaning process, don’t just assume it’s something Jake is doing. Fish are sensitive to both temperature changes and stress generally. Can you bring in a more knowledgeable fish keeper to ask advice so *everyone* can learn?

    Reply ↓
    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Excellent point — the choices are not fire Jake or keep killing fish. Jake can still clean the tanks, it just needs some more education on the best way.

      Reply ↓
    2. CB212*

      There shouldn’t be any cleaning chemicals at all! Not sure if LW has seen any being used or is just theorizing what “cleaning” entails, but if Amy and Jake are using anything but water they are probably making a mistake.

      Reply ↓
  12. Bruce*

    Longtime fish friend here. Aquariums can be notoriously challenging, especially if you are using tap water to fill them as the municipalities regularly change up what chemicals are used for disinfecting and none of them are good for fish in a confined space.

    Also, revisit the “cleaning chemicals” part – it is fairly rare that you would need to use chemicals in the cleaning of a tank, usually some scrubbing with a sponge is all that is needed and either rinsing out the bottom substrate or using a gravity siphon to suck out the gunk and leave the pebbles behind.

    Either way, testing the water after cleaning is a standard practice for any aquarium owner before reintroducing the fish, and that can be a good learning opportunity on how to test for pH, temperature, chlorine/chloramines, copper, ammonia, etc. When possible, it is also a good idea to not change the entire water volume at once – not really possible with a small bowl, but more for when you get into the 5-10 gallon tanks and larger – that helps keep things in better balance.

    Reply ↓
    1. Apples and Oranges*

      When I had an aquarium I never removed the fish at all for cleaning. Just siphoned out the gunk on the bottom and topped off the water. I did always distill the water though—never used straight tap water. I am not an expert though. Is it normal to remove the fish? It seems like it would be stressful to them.

      Reply ↓
  13. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    Oh my goodness, this isn’t calling Jake a terrible person because the fish are dying. This is just a hey, let’s see about improving. Which is not a bad thing. It can be done very kindly using the suggested wording That’s not accusatory, its just, let’s figure this out.

    I highly doubt Jake hasn’t noticed the fish are dying. But he might not realize that cleaning can be done differently. You don’t want him to feel bad but you do want to give him more knowledge.

    Reply ↓
    1. MigraineMonth*

      Lol, yes, I’ve been rereading that one as well. “I realize we’re all stressed, but here, have an office turtle!”

      Reply ↓
  15. Jane Bingley*

    The tank is almost certainly far too small. This is not (just) Jake’s fault. Very few fish can survive in a five-gallon tank and almost none can genuinely thrive. Is there an option to upgrade to a slightly larger tank? You don’t say what kind of fish you have, but a ten-gallon tank could handle 3-5 tetras without too much trouble (though I’d recommend ones from the same school, rather than different coloured fish). If you’re keeping goldfish, you need 30 gallons per fish, minimum. A larger tank also requires fewer cleanings.

    Generally, tank cleanings should not involve cleaning chemicals or completely emptying the tank – it should involve a water change of about 25% of the water, using soft tools to scrub away any algae build-up, and checking key levels (ammonia, ph) to ensure these are balanced and adjusting them if they’re off.

    Reply ↓
    1. Nuke*

      This is what I was going to add! I admire that everyone here wants to take good care of the fish, but 5 gallons for multiple fish is far too small. It’s honestly barely acceptable for a single betta fish. There probably needs to be a whole readjustment in the care situation for these animals.

      Reply ↓
    2. FricketyFrack*

      Thank you! I don’t have fish because I’ve seen how much work goes into properly caring for them and everything I’ve seen has said 5 gallon tanks are too small for almost anything. People think they’re fine because pet stores sell them but a lot of pet stores sell a lot of things they have no business selling. This whole thing is pretty horrible and Amy probably shouldn’t have fish at all unless she’s willing to make a lot more changes.

      Reply ↓
      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Yeah I can’t fault Amy or anyone involved for this situation being created. Aquariums are harder than people think and pet stores give terrible equipment and advice! But to just let it keep happening is not acceptable. The tank needs to go.

        Reply ↓
        1. Xanna*

          The lack of respect people have for fish (and small pets in general) truly blows my mind. Like imagine if this was literally any other animal:

          “My coworker has had 8 cats die, I think it’s the neighbour kid coming over to babysit and letting them into the medicine cabinet. She won’t say anything, and just came back from the SPCA with a fresh pair of kittens – hopefully these ones make it!”

          People would be (justifiably) losing their minds. The only humane solution here is no more fish. For a calming thing for the kids, there’s a huge amount of stim toys on the market – replacing the fish death chamber with a basket of fidgets sounds like a no brainer here.

          Reply ↓
          1. Typity*

            Or get a decent-sized tank and hire an aquarium service to maintain it. If they’re good for the kids and nobody available is able to care for them properly, the fishies deserve professional care. The school might even get a break on the price for a smaller tank.

            Reply ↓
            1. Xanna*

              I have a hard time believing someone who knows this little about fish and clearly has chosen the cheapest option (tiny tank, no water testing, just replace the fish when they die) is going to be open to paying the hundreds of dollars having someone come and do maintenance on a regular basis.

              Keeping fish is hard (and expensive), and the growing understanding that animals deserve to be treated humanely is a huge reason why class pets have been going out of fashion over the last 20 years. The kids will be sad that the fish have gone away, but I think if they knew that their fish were already dying on the regular, even a small child would understand things need to change.

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    3. Dogwoodblossom*

      Yeah the “chemicals” freaked me out! I am not a fish keeping expert by any means, but that’s pretty 101 stuff. Straight up no cleaning chemicals in there! If he’s taking everything out and cleaning it and changing 100% of the water, he’s also crashing the cycle every time even if he’s not idk, spritzing the whole thing with Windex.

      I agree with the folks saying this tank is probably too small for the bio load, but if you (by which I mean Amy, who is in charge of this tank) wanted to do a planted tank you could still do a couple nano fish and some cherry shrimp and vastly cut down on the amount of maintenance required. I’m assuming this tank is rainbow gravel, fake plants, and a Spongebob pineapple which is going to make the balance of bacteria much more precarious.

      Maybe assign Jake a research project about the Walstead Method and pay him for helping set up a more sustainable tank. Fish are smart, they are interesting, they feel pain, and they do not deserve to be treated as disposable. No living creature does.

      Reply ↓
  16. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

    Yikes. Negligently killing animals at a school. Can one of your knowledgeable friends recommend any easy to understand books on aquarium care? That could benefit Amy, Jake, and everyone who doesn’t want animal suffering and death in the school office.

    Fish are very sensitive to water conditions. Untreated tap water can harm them. Wholesale changing of the water without cycling the tank (possible to do with the right chemicals) will likely kill them, and probably unnecessary to swap out all the water. If soap is being used in the cleaning, big problem. I’m sure Jake would want guidance on these things!

    Definitely address this, OP. This is very distressing! You are right to want to bring this up!

    Reply ↓
    1. Xanna*

      Fishkeeping YouTube is massive – AquariumCoOp, FishforThought, and KGTropicals are all good places to start.

      Watching fish tank review by FishForThought actually convinced me not to get goldfish – a lot of people kept fish is terrible conditions as kids, and seeing how much standards of care have changed, and how much more we knowing about ethical fish keeping now than in the 90s is hugely eye opening.

      There’s just so much easily accessible information out there – not knowing is really a choice at this point imho

      Reply ↓
  17. April Ludgate*

    I am a very minor fish hobbyist, don’t currently have a tank, but have in the past. The odd fish dying here and there is so common, even after a water change, but a mass casualty event multiple times is not. Amy could easily reach out to Jake, tell him what is happening, ask for his help to problem solve. If he is a good, conscientious kid he might be better equipped than her to figure it out. She doesn’t have to just fire him.

    Reply ↓
    1. Momma Bear*

      I agree – talk to Jake. If he’s doing it wrong he needs to be retrained. It is doing no one (especially the fish) any favors to allow him to keep doing whatever it is that he’s not doing right. He needs to either do it correctly or he needs to stop doing it. Coddling his feelings isn’t doing him any favors – this is job experience, not a home project.

      Reply ↓
    2. Saturday*

      I don’t think it makes sense to talk to Jake when he probably doesn’t even know what he’s doing wrong.

      But also, it’s not clear to me that Amy doesn’t intend to re-train Jake. She just didn’t agree with LW’s suggestion that Jake not be allowed to do the cleaning anymore.
      “I gently suggested that maybe Jake doesn’t clean the tank anymore and she agreed that it was a problem … but she would feel bad telling him he couldn’t do it anymore and causing him to lose out on the spending money he earns.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Resentful Oreos*

        If the spending money is the issue, maybe there are chores around the preschool Jake could do that don’t involve fish? Water plants, organize the toy boxes, etc.

        Reply ↓
  20. Lorna*

    Just a thought: Has anyone ever showed Jake how to properly clean the tank, walked him thru the steps and maybe even supervised the first attempt? If not, how is he to know he’s ( most likely unknowingly) offing the fish?

    When I was 14, I was in charge of the school’s pet gerbil for the weekend. No instructions, no info on how to care for it. It just was my turn to take him home that weekend.

    Without the guidance/help of my Mum that little critter wouldn’t have survived the first day.

    Please be kind to the kid and talk to him, offer him a walk through or just some guidance.

    Reply ↓
    1. Annie Nonimous*

      Reading through a lot of these comments made me realize how it’s a minor cruelty to give kids responsibility for a living thing and just expect them to know what to do.

      Reply ↓
      1. Resentful Oreos*

        I agree! And back in the day there wasn’t the “just google it” option. Cross your fingers the library would be open and have a book on hamster care!

        Reply ↓
  21. The Other Evil HR Lady*

    My DH was an avid fish keeper. While cleaning the 30-gallon tank we had, he caused a mass extinction of all our poor fish! We had about 20 of them (about 1″ of fish per gallon), so we were quite upset. He hadn’t done anything different, other than use a brand new sponge – the kind to clean dishes with. Apparently, those things have chemicals that can kill fish and we just didn’t know!

    If it can happen to someone who knows what he’s doing (my DH had successfully kept fish for many years), it can happen to anyone. A quick conversation with the teenager would clear this up without placing any blame. You don’t need to tell the kid, “You killed all the fish.” It’s more like, “Let’s find out the steps you took to clean the tank so that we can avoid whatever is harming the fish.” Any nice kid really WOULD want to know, I promise.

    Reply ↓
  23. I speak for the fishes*

    Jake obviously hasn’t been trained. I’ve kept fish for decades and can say with near certainty that the issue is that he’s not putting dechlorinator in the water when he does the water changes. This is as simple as adding a little bit of a liquid when he adds the tap water, but skipping this step is one the few ways you can kill an entire tank immediately. Any pet store would be happy to show him what to do, or I can provide more details if you want to respond to this message. You absolutely have an ethical imperative to prevent living beings from suffering.

    Reply ↓
    1. Apples and Oranges*

      Agree. If he’s putting straight tap water in that’ll definitely kill fish. If he IS using dechlorinator sometimes it hard to get the ratio right. I always just let my water that sit for at least 24 hour but maybe that’s not best practice

      Reply ↓
      1. I speak for the fishes*

        I just have a level marked on a little medicine cup to show much dechlorinator to put in. It’s pretty non-toxic, so even if you’re a little off the fish should be fine. Chloramine doesn’t necessarily leave water within 24 hours, unlike chlorine, so aging water is not always a safe practice depending on your water source.

        Reply ↓
    2. BKB*

      Some tap water will kill the fish even if you add dechlorinator. Our well water kills fish. The city water of the city closest to us is too hard for fish. If you think it might be an issue with water, you can take a sample of your water to a specialty fish store, and they will test it for you. You may need to find an alternate water source. (For us—we either buy water from the fish store or get city water from a relative’s house in a different city and add dechlorinator).

      Reply ↓
  24. Fish Friend*

    I would tell her *once* that she needs to speak to Jake or that I will. I would step in, even if it’s an “overstep.” Fish tanks are hard to take care of, so I might 1) Review with Jake what steps he’s taking, 2) Correct the procedure with info from the Fish Store, and 3) Watch him do it! Offer to lend a hand, maybe say “ooh, I think that part didn’t get rinsed completely,” and TEACH him how to do it right.

    Reply ↓
  25. Annie Nonimous*

    I feel like Amy is paralyzed at the thought of telling Jake he’s killing the fish, when she doesn’t need to do that at all. This can be a learning experience, a “something’s wrong and we need to figure it out” moment. Showing Jake the steps of identifying a problem, brainstorming what could be the cause, and talking through the experience could be a lesson that he takes with him all his life. Especially if, as someone suggested, the problem might be with an outside source like the store the fish are coming from. There’s still a lot of different ways this could go.

    Reply ↓
  26. Chirpy*

    Letting Jake know so that the issue can be fixed is a *kindness* to Jake. If he likes the job, he probably likes the fish, and if he someday decides to get his own fish, he needs to know how to clean the tank properly.

    Reply ↓
    1. anononon*

      This! I hate to think of Jake killing his own fish (or someone else’s) because he was never trained (or trained incorrectly, which seems plausible given the number of fish-hobbyist commenters here pointing out possible issues). It may seem kindest to avoid making him feel bad by never telling him about the dying fish, but it’s much more kind to make sure he isn’t accidentally killing fish by doing something he thinks he knows how to do, and (more broadly) that he learns how to recover from this kind of mistake in a compassionate environment.

      Reply ↓
  27. Dinwar*

    How often is the tank cleaned? I have a feeling that you’re equating correlation with causation when it’s not the truth here.

    Depending on what fish these are, a 5-gallon tank may be woefully undersized. Goldfish, for example, require a much larger container to survive. The way a guy at a fish store explained it to me, the body of the goldfish will remain suitably sized for the tank, but the guts would continue to grow, which rather obviously causes physiological problems. The guy flat-out refused to sell goldfish to folks who were looking at 5-gallon tanks.

    Second, where are you getting the fish? We lost a beloved turtle (who we’d had since we got married) due to a worm infestation in feeder fish. And it wasn’t just us; a lot of people had issues with it at that time. And the problem doesn’t go away; to eliminate the worms you have to eliminate the eggs, which means sterilizing EVERYTHING in the tank.

    If fish are dying often enough, and the cleaning is happening often enough, yeah, it’ll look like they’re related. But it’s just spurious correlation. Or it could be related but nothing to do with the kid doing something wrong–any cleaning is going to cause stress on the fish, which, if they’re on the edge anyway, could tip the scales and cause them to die.

    What I would do here is call a meeting to discuss the fish as such–not blaming anyone, but to figure out how to solve the problem. “We’ve been losing a lot of fish, which is fairly traumatic for the kids. We need to look at how we’re keeping the fish and determine what we need to fix.” Something like that. Not “Who’s screwing up?” but rather “There’s a problem, what is it and how do we correct it?” You may even want to bring someone from a local pet store into the conversation–either at the meeting, or email them and ask their opinion.

    This has the advantage of not making it an attack against one person. It also introduces the kid to how healthy workplaces deal with issues–problem first, blame last if at all, and occasionally you need to bring in experts.

    Reply ↓
  28. Andromeda Carr*

    Here’s a suggestion: put it to Amy that talking to Jake will be an exercise in training herself to supervise, which will require many conversations of this sort. She may even be able to get a “how I solved a problem at work” story out of it (though I’d edit the story to only include one fish die-off).

    Reply ↓
  29. The Petson from the Resume*

    Epitome of people will do a lot/put up with a lot to avoid uncomfortable conversations. Allowing fish to die, spending money to replace them, risk little kids seeing a dead fish in a moment when they’re looking for comfort.

    Amy needs to do the thing, but she didn’t write in.

    Reply ↓
  30. But Not The Armadillo*

    Agree with The Other Evil HR Lady. From my reading on fishkeeping (extensive) and fishkeeping experience (limited), fish are very sensitive to changes in environments so even something like doing a 1 gallon removal and replacement of tank water can cause a die-off in a 5 gallon tank (less likely in a 100 gallon tank). It could even be the cleaning itself that causes problems by disrupting microbes and such.

    At a minimum, I would recommend checking basic chemicals (pH, nitrite) before and after a cleaning (with Jake) to approach it collaboratively and make sure it’s not the size/scale/local water changes etc. that might be causative.

    Also, adding several fish at once to a small tank (generally less than 20 gallons) can be a challenge to a “fresh tank” as it might not have the microbes to handle that quantity of fish, unless using something that pre-populates the microbes (this is A Thing), which can cause die-off.

    It really might NOT be Jake.

    Reply ↓
  31. Office Plant Queen*

    If I’d had this kind of task as a teenager, I would’ve been horrified to know that I was doing something that killed the fish, and even more so that nobody corrected me after the first time. Please talk with him! Make sure he knows he’s not in trouble and approach with an attitude of figuring out what specifically is going wrong. I would also look up some videos of fish tank care that are from a reliable source (experienced keepers, not pet store chains), and share those with him. He could also look up on his own, but he might not yet have the skills to assess whether or not a source is trustworthy.

    If she’s not willing to do that, then she shouldn’t keep fish. Instead, maybe make a display of attractive glitter bottles, which can have a similar calming effect when shaken

    Reply ↓
  32. C4TL4DY*

    My husband is a fish keeper hobbyist. Amy is not properly cycling the tank and doesn’t seem to know enough to keep them alive. Please research and watch some videos on you tube. Don’t ask the pet store employees EVER how to keep a fish, they are just there to make a sale. They are notorious for giving bad advice.

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  33. DE*

    Before they accuse Jake of anything they need to actually confirm what is killing the fish and that it isn’t something he can just easily fix. I’m shocked this isn’t the advice. Find out what is killing the fish *specifically*. Without doing that, whoever replaces Jake in cleaning the tank may just end up doing the same thing. It also could just be a coincidence.

    Reply ↓
    1. Hyaline*

      This, exactly–Amy ought to be doing the legwork to learn how to care for the fish, and to figure out what’s going on with the tank, before having a conversation with anybody. If she doesn’t want to and LW feels strongly enough, LW can step into the gap. But it’s useless and kind of cruel to just tell Jake “Hey the fish are all dying when you clean the tank” if you’re not able to train him properly. All of the advice here to have someone clean the tank with Jake is likewise useless if that person doesn’t know what they’re doing.

      Reply ↓
  34. Juicebox Hero*

    I used to be an advisor on a fish care board, so here’s what I’d tell someone who came to that board looking for help in this situation.

    First, test your water before putting any fish in it. You can get aquarium test kits at any pet store and it’s the most important thing you can do. The chlorine in municipal tap water is toxic to fish, and some places use chloramine, which compounds the problem because amines are nitrogen-containing compounds that are also toxic to fish. They sell chemicals to add to the water before putting it in the tank that neutralize chlorine and chloramines.

    Second, never use anything to clean the tank except tools and treatments intended for fishtanks. Regular scrub brushes, sponges, etc can contain detergents, antimicrobial agents etc that are harmful to fish. Cleaning tools that have been used with household chemicals will have traces of those things on them and even minute amounts are toxic to fish.

    Third, no household chemicals in the tank, ever. The only exception is regular chlorine bleach with no scent or anything else, which can be used in diluted form to sterilize everything before it goes into the tank. It has to be rinsed off completely and either left in the sun for a couple days or treated with a double dose of the chlorine remover before fish go anywhere near it.

    Fourth, make sure you’re getting the right fish for your water conditions. Goldfish (my specialty) need hard, slightly alkaline water that’s cooler than the average aquarium whereas, say, tetras need warm, soft, slightly acidic water.

    Where to go next… Empty the tank completely. Tell the kids that their fishies went to take swimming lessons from the fish in the big blue ocean but they’ll be home to see them soon. Dump the gravel, because it will hold on to anything that might have gone into the tank. Disinfect the tank and everthing that goes in it – plastic plants, heater, fake scuba diver, everything – with a solution of one tablespoon of plain chlorine bleach to 1 gallon of water, rinse very well, and either put in the sun or use the double dose of chlorine remover. Then start with new gravel (put it in a colander and rinse all the dust out of it, the water should run clear) and make sure there are plenty of air bubblers and use a filter containing activated carbon. The bubbles look cool and aerate the water, and the carbon will remove any residual yuck.

    You can get Jake a brand new set of tank-safe cleaning tools and walk him through their use, or if he’s interested he can do some reasearch on his own.

    Fishkeeping is a lot trickier and more involved than a lot of people realize. Everything I know about it I learned the hard way :D But my Bubba, the Man-Eating Goldfish, lived for 10 years and weighed over a pound when he went so it’s definitely something anyone can learn.

    Jake can’t keep innocently killing fish. A teen is old enough to be nicely that he’s doing something wrong

    Reply ↓
    1. Productivity Pigeon*

      Please take this exactly as I say it:

      I am so so glad there are people like you out there who are passionate about things I don’t care about.

      We need all kinds of people in the world.

      Thank you for teaching me about fish care, it’s officially my Thing Learnt Today. :)

      Reply ↓
    2. Resentful Oreos*

      Adding my thanks for the detailed comment! I don’t have fish (I have cats who probably would love a “cat TV” fish tank though) but it seems that they are wrongly perceived as throwaway, starter pets, when their care is a lot more delicate and complex than most of us think.

      Reply ↓
    3. CommanderBanana*

      Seriously. I find having dogs to be less stressful, weirdly, than plants or fish. At least dogs can kind of tell you when something’s going wrong!

      Reply ↓
      1. Mid*

        Same. I’ve had dogs, currently have cats, and also keep reptiles and kept rodents and fish. Cats and dogs are soooo much easier to care for than any of the small animal pets.

        Reply ↓
      2. Dinwar*

        Makes sense. We co-evolved with dogs, and intentionally bred dogs over thousands of years to communicate with us (well, some anyway; there’s a huge variance between breeds, from wolfdog hybrids to Japanese chins and everything in between). We haven’t really done that with fish, and can’t do that with plants.

        Reply ↓
        1. CommanderBanana*

          Hah, good point – my JackChi is very, very, VERY good at communicating what she wants and when she wants it!

          Reply ↓
      3. MeepMeep123*

        Seriously. I’ve never had fish, but just reading this fish-care thread stresses me out. With my cats, all I have to do is scoop the cat box and give the creatures food and water. And if I forget, they meow at me to remind me.

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  35. Your Resident Veg Friend*

    This is horrifying, frankly. If Amy’s only concern is that she wants to pay Jake to do a chore, find a task like washing toys or filing or deep cleaning fridges or something which doesn’t involve accidental fish-slaughter. Get plants, even, if you want to more humanely murder something on a routine basis. Animals should be under the care of a responsible and educated adult.

    It is unethical and a stupid waste of money to continue doing this.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ellis Bell*

      Yeah, the reluctant attitude Amy is showing to teaching Jake gets him squarely off the hook imo. It’s clear there hasn’t been any thought put into the training him in how to properly clean, the cleaning hasn’t been supervised, and Jake hasn’t been told to expect follow ups and help, if doesn’t go right. To use your example, he should only be cleaning inanimate objects if this is all the support he’s likely to get. If I were OP I’d say “I have two ideas on what to do with Jake, let me know which is better: the first is that I have some (objects) he can clean, which won’t result in any deaths, the second is that we’re around to support him and do double checks before anything else dies”.

      Reply ↓
  36. Observer*

    LW, I want to add something to what Alison said.

    Amy has a *obligation* to speak up because she is going to harm the kids. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Already, even if the kids have not seen a dead fish, there is a chance that the constantly rotating cast of fish is being unsettling to them. But given the frequency with which these fish are dying it’s just a matter of time before a kid is going to see a floating fish.

    The thing is that I’m not aghast at that notion per se. But in this context, that’s a really hairy issue. These fish are supposed to be *calming*, but that’s going to go out the window the first time a kid sees the dead fish. And if it happens to be a kid on a crying jag, not only will that kid not calm down, odds are that said child will be waaaay harder to calm down in the moment and way more upset. And going forward for many children the calming nature of the fish tank is going to go out the window overall.

    I’m neither a fish person nor a pet person in general. I don’t have an issue with eating meat, using animal skins, etc. But I do think that we do have a basic moral obligation to treat the animals in our care reasonably, not cause unnecessary pain, and to not wantonly kill them. And what’s happening now definitely fails on count one and three, and probably on count two.

    Secondarily, Amy is being really unkind to Jake. Not just because if he’s a reasonable human being he would absolutely want to know that he needs to change something he’s doing because he’s apparently killing the fish. But also because one of the things that working even in a small, part time job is supposed to teach kids is how to deal with less than positive feedback. Why is so reluctant to give him reasonable feedback?

    But on a purely pragmatic (rather than moral) basis, the issue of the potential harm to the kids is probably your biggest thing here. I mean you also have a moral obligation to the kids, there is that as well. But also, even if the fish were not actually living beings that deserve some level of respect, and were just animatronic toys, the harm to the kids is a real potential issue. It’s just asking for trouble.

    Reply ↓
    1. Resentful Oreos*

      I want to expand on one of the points you made: this is probably Jake’s first job or one of his first, given his age and that it’s part time. One of the reasons it’s good to have a part-time job at some point before high school or college graduation is that these are low-stakes jobs, for the most part (maybe not for the poor fish in this case), and they are workplace training wheels, in so many ways (showing up on time, accepting feedback, getting along with coworkers, etc.). It’s better to learn tough lessons in a part-time high school job than at your first Big Professional Job post-graduation, where the stakes are higher as well as the expectations.

      Reply ↓
    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Yes. I am glad to see so much outrage on behalf of the fish, as a fish lover myself, but there are also children here who you’ve already stated are overly attached to these fish and will inevitably see something traumatic if this continues. Assuming they haven’t already. This is not okay on so many levels.

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    3. Jellyfish Catcher*

      This death cycle after death cycle is cruel – for the fish, the kids, and for Jake.
      Amy, the adult, should should have stopped replacing fish, and made sure that Jake was cleaning the tank appropriately.
      She should have taken the entire process and contacted the fish store to research what needed to change.

      I would really reevaluate/ observe Amy’s decisions, as this may indicate a larger issue.
      Amy tolerated repeated multiple tine pet deaths – to avoid talking to a teenager!

      I’d wonder if other issues are not being noticed, or responded to quickly or appropriately.
      This is about not just dead fish, but the ability to recognize and fix stuff going awry – while caring for young children.

      Reply ↓
      1. Letter Writer*

        Hi, LW here!
        I won’t go too far into detail, but yes, there are other things going on with Amy’s decision making skills, her work output, and the management of this organization/school. Suffice to say, many people work in the wider organization (not involved with the school) who should have been removed from their positions a long time ago, and I would actually include Amy in that group. But this post is just about this one very visible fault in Amy’s judgement.
        To assuage your concern about the children: Amy has adult children who survived their childhoods with her, and also she isn’t in direct supervision of any children at the school.

        Reply ↓
        1. Resentful Oreos*

          Yikes! This sounds like someplace I used to work but that was back in the 90’s so I know it’s not the same one and Amy is not my coworker! It really does sound like Amy, and your workplace and leadership, are the problem, and poor Jake is just the patsy. And the fish are the victims.

          Good that Amy isn’t supervising a child. When you literally can’t trust someone to look after a goldfish…

          Reply ↓
  37. cele*

    Agreeing with other commenters that Amy is really, really mismanaging this situation. I don’t even think Jake needs to cut out entirely, since it seems like there isn’t a definitive cause for the fish dying. It’s so strange that she’s approaching it like she might hurt his feelings, when she doesn’t even know if his cleaning is the cause! I would definitely talk to her again, and propose that she talks to Jake and explains what’s going on, have someone observe and/or clean the tank with him, and make changes to his process/materials if needed.

    Reply ↓
  38. Productivity Pigeon*

    Poor boy!

    I don’t care much about fish (sorry, but it’s true!) but I would be DEVASTATED if I had killed so many by accident and honestly, quite angry that no one had told me about it and made me kill yet more fish!

    Reply ↓
  39. Boof*

    Bizarre – either attempt to keep animals alive, even simple ones, or switch to something without a central nervous system, or even not alive at all.
    OP if amy won’t maybe you could just talk to jake? Or suggest Amy just keep a tank of cool bubbly rocks and decorations and no fish?

    Reply ↓
  40. Resentful Oreos*

    If I were Jake, I’d want to know – I would feel terrible knowing I was responsible for mass fish casualties. It’s a kindness to Jake as well as the poor fish to let him know that what he’s doing is likely killing them, so he can either earn money another way or learn how to properly clean a tank. And just speaking for me, I’d feel – how do I put it? – “handled” or coddled or something like that, even as a teenager, if I found out I had been cleaning a tank in such a way that fish kept dying and *nobody told me* because they thought I’d react badly. This is an opportunity for Amy (and the LW) to be tactful but frank with Jake, and for Jake to take ownership of his mistakes or just ignorance, and remedy the situation or find another, fish-free way of earning money.

    Reply ↓
    1. Peregrine*

      I’m amazed at the number of letters where the issue could be solved if the person in charge would just talk to the person causing an issue. I remember an old boss, a lovely woman, telling me about how she once had to talk to an employee who was smelly. She was direct but understanding, the employee started wearing deodorant, problem was solved. So many bosses would freak out over having the conversation! I didn’t know how great a boss she was until I started reading AAM!

      Reply ↓
  42. Heidi*

    Are they buying identical looking fish every time? If not, wouldn’t people (like Jake or the students) notice that there is a very high rate of turnover?

    Reply ↓
    1. Jellyfish Catcher*

      The dead fish will be floating on theiir sides or upside down, partially disintegrating; it will be noticeable.

      Reply ↓
  43. SuprisinglyADHD*

    First off, not telling Jake is doing him a HUGE disservice. If I was inadvertently causing multiple fish deaths, and no one told me so I kept doing it, I would be devastated, even now as an adult! Allowing him to continue to be responsible for killing the school pets without a chance to correct the problem is cruel to him, and obviously animal abuse to boot!
    As for figuring out the actual problem:
    Many fish stores will offer free water testing if you bring them a sample in a container. If the problem is something in the water (either from the tap or from the cleaning supplies or from not using the proper water conditioning techniques) then they could turn it up that way. The all-in-one test strips are often inaccurate compared to the full chemical kits used by professionals.
    Also, make sure that Jake is NOT using regular sponges intended for dishes or housecleaning. Those are NOT aquarium safe and usually say so on the package.
    Someone skilled and knowledgeable should definitely supervise Jake’s cleaning and make sure he isn’t doing something incorrectly, like dumping in frigid or boiling water, or dumping the filter into the tank, or disconnecting the bubbles for hours.
    But most importantly, Jake NEEDS TO KNOW there is a problem before any of it can be fixed!

    Reply ↓
  44. Heather*

    The most important part of this letter that connects to everyone, not just the LW is, “How do I have a hard conversation with someone?”
    Allison does a great job offering phrasing and scripts but as a society, we need to do better about understanding the phrase, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, say nothing at all” applies to things people cannot easily changed or fix. It does not apply to issues that can be repaired or improved with a conversation.
    Someone recommended the book, “Radical Candor” by Kim Scott a few years ago and I think it offers great examples of how to be candid AND caring. She also has a podcast for those that don’t care to read a whole book. You don’t need to be in “corporate” to utilize the tools form her book. Educators, blue collar workers, and office staff can find good information in there.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ellis Bell*

      That’s why we don’t use that phrase to teach young people how to be pleasant and stay in their lane, any more. Instead we use “THINK before you speak; Is it true, helpful, inspiring, necessary or kind?” This situation actually meets every single criteria in the acronym! Plus, Amy is an adult.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hyaline*

      I agree with this–but I also think that “having a hard conversation” is only helpful when there’s a clear problem that can be solved or an issue that you can address together, with the appropriate people. The initial conundrum presented in the letter is maybe not “have the hard conversation” material: LW (who by her own admission doesn’t know how to care for fish and doesn’t know why they’re dying, she can only speculate) wants Amy (who apparently doesn’t know how to care for fish either) to tell a teenage kid that he’s screwing up with the fish and killing them (because…that will solve it? It will not. It may not even be true). That’s pretty unhelpful! I find that there are people on the other end of the “if you don’t have anything nice to say” spectrum who pride themselves on “having hard conversations” that are poorly considered, directed at the wrong people, or generally serve to do nothing except boost that person’s ego that they “said something that needed to be said” and this is a situation where having the conversation LW *thinks* needs to happen would be unhelpful. I kind of feel like the better conversation here is LW and *Amy* figuring out if fish are a responsibility their office is able to take on or not (another, nonliving sensory item could replace the tank for educational purposes).

      Reply ↓
      1. Letter Writer*

        Hey, just a heads up, I am not a woman and never implied I was. They/them pronouns are fine in lieu of knowing someone’s gender. I know early childhood as a field is overwhelmingly female, but that shouldn’t be what you assume about someone in the field.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ellis Bell*

          It’s good to know someone’s pronouns so it’s great you’ve mentioned them; it’s unlikely that Hyaline has defaulted to an early childhood bias, though – it’s super common on here to refer to people as she/her in all fields from what I’ve seen. Possibly as it’s just really common to default to your own gender (there’s also a bit of a habit of using her/she on this website as it’s what Alison does to characterise a hypothetical manager and some people have copied it. It’s explained in “why I refer to everyone as she when I write” where she says “having everyone just use their own gender as their generic pronoun makes a lot of sense and could solve the whole problem.”

          Reply ↓
        2. Xanna*

          The convention on this site is to use she/her pronouns when the gender isn’t stated – Alison has said it’s to combat the “male is the default” convention that’s prevalent in other spaces :)

          Reply ↓
        3. Eldritch Office Worker*

          It has nothing to do with the field. It’s a convention on this site to assume she/her in lieu of pronouns as a countermeasure to popular assumptions that male is the default unless otherwise stated.

          Reply ↓
        4. Hyaline*

          I apologize for causing offense–it’s common on this site to default to she/her in lieu of an identification by the LW and I roll with that default, ironically to AVOID causing offense.

          Reply ↓
  45. Mostly Lurker*

    My husband used to keep fish tanks, and always had a picasimus (sp?), an algae eating fish that helped keep the tank clean(er). Not sure if that might be an option to minimize any impact from cleaning? (may need to speak with the pet store to see if the tank/other fish would be compatible)

    Reply ↓
    1. Susie*

      It’s spelled plecostomus in case you were actually wondering :) just a friendly here to help suggestion. Pleco for short. Plecos get MASSIVE. Hillstrom loaches are smallers but lets not forget about the beauty of SHRIMP! Freshwater shrimp are the unsung heros of poop cleaning. Plecos are sort of lazy compared to loaches and shrimp put everyone to shame.

      Reply ↓
  47. Mindi*

    My first move would be to have Jake clean the tank while I observed so I could catch what he’s doing incorrectly and fix it in the moment. If the problem started when he began cleaning the tank, then it’s logical to assume he’s doing something differently than others who clean the tank.

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  49. sswj*

    I would blame the size of the tank, frankly. Five gallons is SMALL for more than one or two fish, and water quality can degrade really quickly.

    Someone needs to get a good education in monitoring water parameters, how to properly and safely clean, how to dechlorinate the water, what fish will do well there, etc. Then that info can be passed along to Jake and his successor.

    Fish keeping is fun and *eventually* pretty simple, but the beginning phases are tough for adults, let alone kids.

    Reply ↓
    1. Consonance*

      Yeah, five gallons is almost certainly too small. They can use websites like this one to determine stocking: https://aqadvisor.com/

      And as others have said, it may not be Jake’s direct fault. Are they dechlorinating water? Is there copper in the pipes? Are the fish coming in with diseases? Are they treating the fish for diseases as a matter of course when introducing them to the tank? Did you give Jake a bucket to use that’s also used for other cleaning purposes? Is the tank properly cycled?

      To not even investigate the causes is really cowardly and inhumane. She needs to talk with Jake, talk with the fish store, and figure out what’s going on.

      Reply ↓
  50. Workerbee*

    Agree with the script Alison provided, EXCEPT: Take out all the “I think” and other softened language. The situation has gone beyond that and Amy needs a real wake-up call about what she’s actually been enabling.

    Reply ↓
  51. Hyaline*

    I’m unclear why the LW is even blaming Jake here–sure, we have “multiple times” the fish have died after he cleaned the tank, but the last batch of new fish died with no involvement from Jake! It sounds to me that Amy has no idea how to care for fish, or has gotten bad advice, or perhaps the pet store is selling dud fish…but the problem is only involving Jake in that, once a proper fish care and maintenance plan is worked out, he needs to be properly trained. Having a “hard talk” with Jake does nothing here if no one knows how to take care of the fish correctly–in fact, it *would* just serve to make him feel bad when he had no recourse to improve. (Telling a teenager you’re throwing a few bucks at “Oh, BTW, become an aquatic animal care expert thanks” is really not a good option here.)

    But here’s the thing–LW doesn’t seem to be “in charge” in a sense that would allow her to say to Amy “Either figure out how to care for the fish or we need to get rid of the tank” and isn’t willing to take it to her boss (though she might try that route before throwing her hands up). IMO it’s either “Make this your problem and do a lot of research and figure out what the issue is so you can make a positive contribution to solving it even if it’s not technically your tank, fish, or money” or “you have to let this go.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Letter Writer*

      Hi, LW here!
      I did blame Jake, because he cleaned the tank between the previous fish deaths and the new fish being introduced. Amy has never cleaned the tank herself.

      Reply ↓
      1. Fish Friend*

        OK, that’s logical, but Jake needs guidance. He’s a kid and needs to be taught the right way to clean the tank. If Amy doesn’t know how (since she’s never done it), then you can be the hero and step in here.

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      2. Saturday*

        But someone instructed Jake in how to clean it. It sounds like the fish may have still died if Amy had cleaned it.

        Reply ↓
        1. Hyaline*

          This exactly. The LW speculated that “maybe there were still chemicals in the tank” (a reasonable speculation that I, not a fish person, would have made, too)–but then we get a bunch of fish folks in the comments saying “chemicals no never what?” so…my guess is that no one there knows how to properly clean the tank and until that’s hashed out, it’s pointless to drop this on Jake (unless your expectation is that he figure it out–which as I said, I think is an inappropriate ask for a teenager you’re throwing a few bucks at). “Amy has never cleaned the tank” is actually a problem, not a get out of fish death free card for Amy.

          Reply ↓
  52. TooTiredToThink*

    There’s lots of comments here but wanted to chime in mine:

    I once bought a 20 gallon tank with the intention of getting some glo-fish. Properly cycled the tank. Tested the water. Everything looked great. Got the fish. They all died overnight. Started again. Had the pet store test my water. Everything was fine. Got more. They all died overnight as well.

    At that point I was not in the mood to even think about trying a third time – but I was basically not convinced it wasn’t something to do with my electrical system. Like I always wondered if something was shocking them – it was the only thing that made sense to me. So I threw all of that away when I finally got rid of the tank.

    All that to say; he might not be doing anything wrong. I don’t know how often electrical problems might occur, but I wouldn’t rule it out; even though I only have my own experience to draw from.

    Reply ↓
  53. whatchamacallit*

    I foster for a guinea pig rescue. (Yes, they’re a real thing!) It’s shocking how people are rather dismissive of small pets. They deserve a good life and good care. They definitely shouldn’t die because someone is TOO afraid to have one uncomfortable conversation. We have a pretty strict screening process and specifically do not allow children to be listed as the primary caretaker of the animal and we deny anyone who says they want an animal to “teach their kid about responsibility.” Living animals are not learning experiences and it’s a disservice to Jake and to the fish not to say something!

    Reply ↓
    1. Mid*

      It’s so shocking! I foster rescue reptiles (well, I used to do it more, I don’t have the time currently but plan on doing it again in the future) and a horrible number of people believe that reptiles, especially snakes, can’t feel pain. And so many people get small animals because they’re “easy” and horrifically neglect and abuse them, often while following directions from their pet store! Most small animals are actually far harder to care for than cats and dogs are, and require a lot more knowledge and specialized equipment to have them healthy and thriving. Goldfish are not supposed to only live for a year or two. Hamsters are not supposed to only live for a year or two.

      Reply ↓
      1. CommanderBanana*

        ^^ THIS. I volunteer for a rescue that also takes in small mammals – domestic rats and mice, guinea pigs, hamsters, bunnies, ferrets, etc. – and they are a LOT of work. The size of a pet has nothing to do with how “easy” it is to care for. And they need more specialized equipment and habitats than dogs and cats do, and their vet bills aren’t any cheaper.

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    3. Resentful Oreos*

      I’m glad to hear this (and glad to hear that there are small pet rescues). Small pets (hamsters, guinea pigs, etc.) deserve better than what they often get. They are living beings, not just “starter pets” to teach children responsibility or as living toys.

      I don’t have small pets because I have cats, but, I do enjoy looking at YouTube videos of people and their hamsters and guinea pigs. I’ve learned a lot even though I’m not a small pet owner, especially about space and diet. And how guinea pigs need to be kept with at least one other guinea pig and not by themselves (poor Snowball, my childhood guinea pig! She got a wire cage, pellets and no friends! Back in the day we just did not know).

      Reply ↓
  54. Mid*

    An additional issue that could be brought up to Amy is that if Jake doesn’t know he’s killing the fish with his cleaning, and thinks he’s doing a good job, he could very well start offering his cleaning services to other people, which is bad! It’s setting him up for failure and it’s harming even more animals. Please be honest with him! Those poor fish.

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  55. KB*

    Does “clean the tank” include something horribly naive like spraying Windex on it?

    1) someone needs to write up and POST tank cleaning instructions next to the tank, pronto!!!
    2) someone needs to teach Jake how to clean the tank
    3) if cleaning involves a water change, this is a serious moment for fish, learn how
    4) consult an expert on how to maintain a tank and get a good balance of fish to keep it clean by itself

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  56. Leonardo da Fishie*

    Meet with all 3 of you together! “We have a lot of fish dying recently and we need to figure out what’s going on, so we’re going to check our procedures.”

    Something’s being done incorrectly. I only had one little tank and it was a -beast- to keep up, but if this keeps happening there’s a mistake that might not even be Jake’s fault.
    *Using filtered water?
    *As OP mentioned, using virgin containers/hoses for the filtered water that have never had the touch of soap?
    *How much water is being removed at a time? If it’s more than like 1/3, you could be shocking the fish (depending on tank size and species).
    *If you’ve done a total water change, are you cleaning substrate? Are you also doing THAT with filtered water and avoiding soaps?
    *Are you letting the nitrogen cycle develop for several WEEKS before adding new fish?

    Etc etc etc. My lone betta was the hardest pet I’ve ever cared for and I’ve kept a hedgehog — they require permits in some places! You guys need expert help and theres totally a way to bring it up without completely blaming Jake. Definitely start there.

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  57. adventuresingradschool*

    “but I suspect the cleaning chemicals are not properly rinsed out”

    It’s hard to say, but this makes me think the fish are getting bagged up and the tank is getting a full scrubbing. The best way to clean the tank is with regular partial water changes (dechlorinated, ect). If it’s getting dumped out completely all the good bacteria die and you run the risk of chemical contamination and generally shocking the fish. Another possibility is if the water is getting replaced with DI water or something. I think Amy and co. should really discuss the deaths with their pet store aquarist. I am not completely convinced this is a Jake problem so much as a general care problem that bites them in the butt sometimes.

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  58. Letter Writer*

    LW here! Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Alison. Rest assured I’m not sitting on my hands.
    A quick note: The letter I submitted makes it sound like this office is a constantly churning death wheel for neon tetras. That’s not the case! Individual fish were replaced after a death rather than in batches in most cases. I can remember about 7 dead fish over the course of 3 years, most occurring weeks or months apart from the others. Last week was the only time we’d ever lost more than one in a week.
    Short update: All three fish are now gone. I sent in this letter last Thursday (the same day the first two fish died). The tank sits empty at present, and will until the situation is resolved. Since I sent the letter, my partner (who works for the same org in a different department) and I, along with another colleague, have talked with Amy (in a casual chitchat-type discussion, not a Sit Down Intervention) about how this can’t keep happening, and stressed the importance of proper cleaning and how it can easily go awry. I’m now confident Amy fully understands the gravity of the situation and wants to take steps to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
    Addressing some themes I see in the comments:
    Re: Jake: I genuinely doubt Jake has ill intentions; I suspect instead that it’s a lack of education into proper tank cleaning methods and materials, or at worst a loosening of his standards for tank cleanliness.
    Re: Amy: I want to stress that Amy loves her fish and is genuinely distraught over each death. I’m not sure why, but the previous deaths never triggered in her the thought to see what was going on and make a change (perhaps because they happened more slowly?) The reason Amy hired Jake to clean her fish tank is that she doesn’t know how to do it herself and seems unwilling to learn. She believes tank cleaning to be too difficult (though why she outsourced to a teenager instead eludes me if she truly believes that). I’m not aware of anyone in our community with enough knowledge to teach her and/or Jake, beyond someone at a pet/aquarium store (which I’ve pointed her to!)
    Amy has been here longer than I have so I’m not sure if the tank was her idea or if she inherited it (and the responsibility it entails) from her predecessor. If it was her idea… well, Amy has a tendency to dive into a new project without taking steps to understand all the variables before getting started, and this would be another of several examples. Many days I find myself frustrated with her approach to important tasks because they just don’t make sense to me and have… mixed outcomes.
    Re: Harm to the kids: To my knowledge, no kids have ever seen a dead fish in this tank. We are quite skilled at redirecting small children! We also have a few cover statements (they went on vacation, they’re having a nap today, etc) and a sign up on the tank blocking the view when there’s something to be hidden.
    From a child development standpoint, though, many of our kids are simply too young to have much of a concept of death and may not recognize a belly-up fish as being dead or that even necessarily being a bad thing. Obviously, I have no intention of testing this, but I think a few commenters are overestimating the impact of seeing a dead fish on young children (ages 2-5, with the bulk being 2-3). Think about your own childhood fish deaths: was it traumatic because the fish died, or because the adults in your life explained it poorly or said something minimizing, well-intentioned but unhelpful, or cruel about it? Children being aware of death, including pet death, is not a bad thing! It’s how it’s spoken about that is important, and it’s for that reason I’m concerned about the kids seeing–many grownups in our school don’t have the skills to talk about death with children in a non-traumatizing, developmentally appropriate way, and some parents may take issue with the discussion even if done well.
    I want to thank everyone for the passion I see in this comment thread, and for caring about our little fish friends. A few commenters have given great cleaning advice which I will pass along!

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    1. Letter Writer*

      It took a bit for this comment to post and in the meantime I rewrote it… So there will be another version somewhere below!

      Reply ↓
    2. Observer*

      Thanks for coming back to comment.

      I genuinely doubt Jake has ill intentions; I suspect instead that it’s a lack of education into proper tank cleaning methods and materials

      That makes a lot of sense, especially with the rest of the detail you’ve added here! The most sensible solution here is not “Jake doesn’t clean the tank” but “Jake gets proper instructions.

      It’s how it’s spoken about that is important, and it’s for that reason I’m concerned about the kids seeing–many grownups in our school don’t have the skills to talk about death with children in a non-traumatizing, developmentally appropriate way, and some parents may take issue with the discussion even if done well.

      That’s a really important point. And that, if nothing else, is a reason why this situation needs to be dealt with.
      well, Amy has a tendency to dive into a new project without taking steps to understand all the variables before getting started, and this would be another of several examples

      At least one person brought up the idea that this situation is a bit of a red flag about Amy’s decision making. This (and the rest of the comment) definitely confirms that.

      Obviously, I have no intention of testing this, but I think a few commenters are overestimating the impact of seeing a dead fish on young children

      I think that you’re overlooking the context here. The issue is not that a child might conceivably come in contact with a dead fish. What worries me is both the number of fish dying and the context in which they might see the dead fish. If a kid finds out that a fish died in the course of a normal day, they might be sad (or not) but life goes on. But if a kid is having a meltdown and they swing by with a teacher to the fish tank for the calming properties, and encounter a dead fish in that particular context, I don’t envy whoever is going to have to calm that kid down. And with that many fish dying, you’ve really brought up the chances of that happening.

      LW, thanks for stepping up! There are a lot of reasons why this needs to be dealt with, and I’m glad that you seem to be getting somewhere. In addition to the fish store, people are right that YouTube is a really useful resource. Make sure that the sources you are looking at are solid, but there is a lot of stuff out there.

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    3. GigglyPuff*

      I would also maybe ask for parent volunteers to see if any of them can do a lesson on tank maintenance/cleaning for Jake and Amy?

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    4. CommanderBanana*

      I’m having trouble squaring “she loves her fish” with “she doesn’t know how to do it herself and seems unwilling to learn.” If she doesn’t want to be a fish caretaker, she should…not have fish. Maybe invest in some of those little robotic fish instead of living beings?

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      1. Ellis Bell*

        I get it. Just because Amy has an emotional reaction after the fact doesn’t mean that translates into preparation in advance. Especially if the responsibility fell on her, rather than it being her idea. Even in the latter situation, there are lots of personalities who are inclined to think “I’ll figure it out as I go, so long as I’m not ill intentioned, what’s the worst that can happen?” or even personalities who simply have no foresight at all, and don’t consider/know that something bad could happen, even if it’s already happened once.

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        1. Xanna*

          Swap out fish for any other animal and this comment section would be outraged.

          If I said “I keep getting dogs, 5 of them have died because I leave snickers bars out on the table, I cry whenever it happens, then am back out to the pet shop for a new corgi that afternoon,” I’d be (rightfully) reported to the authorities, and nobody would be on my side or say it’s ok because I have a personality type that means I’m unaware of the difference between intent and impact as a grown human being.

          Just because it’s fish, doesn’t mean that this is ok or normal.

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            1. Ellis Bell*

              Although, having been in the position of reporting negligent pet owners several times (former job, long story), and seeing absolutely nothing happen unless it’s deliberate, or malicious, I don’t think as much action is actually taken against feckless pet owners by the authorities as you would appear to think, even including dogs. But I do agree with you wholeheartedly in principle that Amy should be in charge of vases or pens, rather than living beings.

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          2. Resentful Oreos*

            I’ve heard about a certain famous-for-being-famous reality TV family that allegedly goes through multiple pets (dogs, kittens, reptiles) because they are just that terrible at animal care as well as being self-absorbed. And having money they just go out and get another one, being self-absorbed means they likely don’t care.

            Though your average person would, I agree, have more of a clue if it was dogs or cats – or even hamsters – that kept dying. It’s a pity that fish are regarded as so disposable.

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    5. Reb*

      If Amy doesn’t know how to clean the tank, who told Jake what to do? It sounds like none of this is his fault, whether or not his actions are causing the deaths.

      I’m also not convinced that the kids are too young to be traumatised.

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      1. Observer*

        If Amy doesn’t know how to clean the tank, who told Jake what to do?

        It sound like the answer is “No one.” Which is why I agree that he’s not the person at fault, regardless.

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    6. Xanna*

      I wish there was a nicer way to say this, but this comment hammers home that none of y’all should have these fish.

      Keeping living things in environments that lead to their deaths isn’t some death-positive stance to teach children the inevitable march of existence on this planet – it’s irresponsible pet husbandry. A better lesson would be “if you’re not motivated enough to learn how to care for something, you shouldn’t get it anyways and let it suffer.” Really, I think we all know this isn’t about lessons, it’s about a really fundamental inability to communicate openly about difficult issues. Your colleague not telling the teen he’s cleaning wrong is ridiculous, but you writing multiple paragraphs about this and then just shrugging it off and hoping she’s “taking it seriously now” is equally ridiculous and conflict avoidant.

      Amy does not love these fish, at least not in a way that extends beyond the absolute surface level. You need to advocate for the tank to go away. That’s the answer. If she wants to keep it, put an aquatic plant or some pretty rocks in there, but allowing this to continue happening to living creatures, knowing what you know now from this comment section would be willfully ignorant, and I think you know that.

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    7. Hyaline*

      Oof I’ve known an Amy or two in my day. Very good intentions, but jumping in with both feet before really realizing the scope of the endeavor that they’re taking on. Outsourcing not only hands on animal care but learning complex processes and pretty in-depth knowledge to an uninformed teenager was a really bad idea and I think she’s probably figured that out. If not, hopefully you don’t have to drive home too much! It sounds like the temporary solution of the empty fish tank may just be the best solution long-term. Maybe a different sensory installation could work or even the fish tank with a few fun kid friendly features and some aquatic plants. But until Amy is willing to learn how to care for the fish (and train someone properly if she doesn’t want to do it herself), she really shouldn’t have fish.

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    8. Beth*

      It sounds like maybe this is not a good environment for a fish tank.

      Amy may love having fish around, but it sounds like she’s not equipped to be a fish caregiver. She doesn’t currently know how to provide a safe, healthy environment for them. She’s experienced a fish death once every few months for the past few years, and while she’s been emotional about them, she’s never questioned her care for them until now. Even now, she’s not taking logical steps (like talking to an expert at a local aquarium or pet store) to learn more about their needs. She believes their care is too hard for her, but chose to hire a teenager to take it over with no oversight. I don’t think you can trust her to suddenly become a responsible pet owner for future fish.

      Jake, on the other hand, is a kid (or the very youngest of adults). He sounds like he has no fish experience. Whatever ‘training’ he’s received on fish care is from Amy (and therefore probably wrong), possibly supplemented from whatever good or bad advice he might have found online (it would not be reasonable to expect an inexperienced teen to know good fish care advice from bad on his own). He may not even be aware that the fish are dying after tank cleanings, if he only stops in every few weeks. He clearly doesn’t mean any harm here, but he’s also not the right person to fix this.

      LW, you sound like potentially the most sensible person in this situation. You understand that the fish should not be dying and that it’s not acceptable for it to continue. You’re aware that you don’t know how to care for fish well (unlike Amy, who either launched or took over the fish tank project without much seeming awareness of her own knowledge gaps). And you’ve gotten a short term fix, in the form of the tank sitting empty. I think your fix should continue until and unless someone shows up who seems genuinely interested in and committed to fishkeeping–not just having them around, but ensuring their wellbeing and quality of life.

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  60. toolegittoresign*

    I can’t relate to Amy. I had a betta fish for 4 years and decided to get another when he passed from old age. The new one died after a few months. I scrubbed out the tank, tested the water, whole shebang, then went and got another fish. That fish died within the week. I was so wracked with guilt over killing two fish that I threw out the tank and all. My husband went back to the pet store to just ask if anyone else had a problem with betta fish recently. Turned out the entire shipment of fish my fish was from all got sick and died within that week. He told me thinking I’d feel better that I wasn’t responsible for the fish’s death. Instead, I was so horrified by the reality of the pet fish trade that I swore off fish forever.

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    1. Susie*

      Don’t give up on fish, go to a small, independently owned store, or order from a reputable breeder who delivers. Petco and Petsmart are not a great place to buy fish. I bought a beautiful, healthy, thriving Betta from a local store who is enjoying the habitat I setup in a gallon tank, which I plan to change up periodically. Also, check out Fritz Zyme7 for starting a new tank to get your bacteria colony healthy.

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    2. GigglyPuff*

      Yeah I tried betta fish, read all about it, set up the large enough tank, got my fishy, everything going well, then added in a new filter after a while, came home from work and my fish had gotten trapped behind it and died. I was wrecked it was going so well and the filter wasn’t strictly necessary. I ended up trying again but must not have cycled the tank or something correctly and the second betta ended up getting weird, fin rot like stuff that seemed to never go away and I felt so guilty that it might be suffering. When it eventually passed away I packed everything up. Still in my closet and I think about trying again, but it’s so freaking hard!

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  61. Susie*

    Hello from a fish keeper and wastewater operator with experience in the ammonia nitrate cycle and chlorine expert. There are two things likely killing fish: spikes in nitrite or failing to remove chlorine from the water before adding fish. If you clean the tank too much, you’re removing the beneficial bacteria that is removing the nitrate and nitrite from the water, nitrite consumes the dissolved oxygen and the fish suffocate. Water changes should be done at about 10% at a time, there are no “cleaning chemicals”.

    When you add water back to the tank, you must remove the chlorine with a fish safe water conditioner, I suggest Fritz or Seachem as great options. There are a ton of great videos on water changes, nitrate cycling, and water conditioning. Without me lecturing on the ammonia cycle in the comments, please buy a bottle of Fritz Zyme 7, do not clean with “chemicals”, and start looking up how to properly do a water change and balance the nitrites in the tank. If this teenager loves fish he’d probably love to learn more about fish keeping and you can gently guide him into a hobby he may find passion in. Sending hugs to all the kids.

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  62. Blue Pen*

    Maybe you could turn it into an educational activity for the school? Invite someone from the pet store (or a knowledgeable friend) to show everyone how to take care of the tank properly; there’s a lesson there that, if the kids care this much about the fish (and it seems like they do), it’s their responsibility to make sure they do everything they can to make sure the fish are happy and healthy.

    Doing it this way also takes less focus off of Jake (and Amy), re-spinning it into a more proactive approach.

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  63. WillowSunstar*

    Could Jake maybe just clean the outside of the tank and the office in general? I feel like that would make him feel useful without harming the fish.

    Reply ↓
    1. Letter Writer*

      LW here!
      As far as I know, him cleaning the tank was more about Amy having someone to clean the tank, rather than Jake needing something to do.

      Reply ↓
  64. Angie*

    Regular glass cleaner will kill fish even in trace amounts. There are glass cleaners made specifically for aquariums that you can buy in most pet stores or order online.

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  65. Mel*

    Get fake fish for the tank.

    If real fish are needed, most pet stores test water samples before selling fish. Bring a sample.

    Also type of fish is important. Goldfish emit a lot of ammonia and will not live if a tank isn’t cleaned at least once a week or more. African Cichlids are pretty tough. Fish sensitive to the environment (saltwater) are never a good idea. Go to a local pet store vs. a chain and solicit advice for the best fish.

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    1. Resentful Oreos*

      I have fake fish for my cats to watch! They wiggle around in a bowl of water. I don’t know if they would fool the kids into thinking they are “real” but they might be fun to watch.

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  66. Michele*

    Having a job as a teenager is learning how to take direction and correction. Amy is grievously failing the living creatures under her care and failing to properly guide Jake in his job.

    Reply ↓
    1. Resentful Oreos*

      Yes, there is so much Jake is not learning on what normally would be a starter job. And I’m sure he’d feel awful if he realized that he wasn’t cleaning the tank properly and as a result fish died. I know I would! I’d want to know I was doing something wrong and how to correct it. Even though it does not seem that Amy knows jack diddly about fish keeping. I’d probably want to go to an independent aquarium store or a fish keeping subreddit at least, to figure out what is going on, if my boss was clueless.

      These kind of jobs that teenagers get are there for them to learn about the workplace, know how to work with others and take feedback, etc. in a low-stakes environment. This way the Jakes of the world don’t wind up in Wacky Intern Stories on AAM.

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  67. Rebecca*

    She could ask him to do something different with the fish, but I think reeducation could be the way to go.

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  68. Those Poor Fish*

    As a teenager I used to work in a fish hatchery, and while of course some fish died, each death was taken very seriously. It was important to learn the cause of each death, from humane, environmental, and economic viewpoints We even learned how to perform minor autopsies to look for major problems such as amoebas or infection.

    As an aside, Jake seems to be accused of killing fish. I recall when people worried about teenagers killing rabbits.

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  69. Sharks are Cool*

    Basic troubleshooting Q: Is he dechlorinating the water?

    As many have said, fish are not easy pets and lots can go wrong, but it’s really upsetting how many people get a fish without learning even the basics of how to take care of them. I once successfully traveled cross-country with a betta fish and became my dorm’s resident fish advocate, but even with obsessive research and attention I only managed to keep him alive for a little over a year and I still get fish-care nightmares!

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    1. Sweet 'N Low*

      A few notes from someone who was previously very, very passionate about fishkeeping* (as in, I once had nine fish tanks):

      1) Regular cleaning of a fish tank should only really involve changing the water (25-30% or so), as well as maybe suctioning out food scraps and waste, or cleaning algae off the tank walls. The only chemicals that should be involved are a water dechlorinator (Seachem Prime was my go-to). The supplies (e.g. bucket, cleaning brush, etc) should be used exclusively for the fish tank and nothing else. Despite what the pet store and the filter instructions will tell you, you should *not* replace the filter cartridge because that’s where all the good bacteria live.

      2) A five gallon tank will never be sufficient to keep multiple fish happy and healthy. A single betta fish of the right variety could theoretically do okay in a five gallon tank. There are a small handful of other fish that could as well. But multiple fish + a snail is a recipe for repeated fish loss. The smaller the tank, the harder it is to keep healthy too, even if it’s technically large enough. If your coworker only has space for a five gallon, I would suggest that she gets a betta fish, maybe a nerite snail, and nothing else.

      3) Don’t let the people who somehow manage to keep fish alive in tiny cups for years fool you, fishkeeping is really hard. There are a ton of things that can and will go wrong, which are all likely to lead to the fish dying. You can do everything right and the fish can still die.

      *I only stopped because I eventually decided that I felt kinda gross about the concept of keeping living things in glass boxes for my entertainment. I still really love fish and miss having fish tanks, but I’ve decided to love them from a distance.

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  70. CET*

    1) Five gallons is way too small for several fish. They likely aren’t getting enough oxygen, and the filter can’t cope with all the waste. A week or so of fish free running is not enough time to establish a nitrogen cycle especially if you add four fish and a snail. That may simply be too large a stocking level for a five gallon tank (if they’re tiny little pearl danios you may get away with it).

    2) This is a really good video on how to clean a tank https://youtu.be/9KZn4zgRDxM?si=l3KVzXG5xPy1_yTY.

    To echo what others are saying the only chemical you need is dechlorinator for the replacement water. You don’t need any cleaning chemicals. In fact soap, even in tiny amounts, is toxic to fish.

    3) and one on setting up a tank in the first place.

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  71. PurlsOfWisdom*

    “Mass fish casualty event” was not on my AAM bingo card today…

    But, really. I think the easy solution here is likely just a matter of training. It’s not as black and white as LW seems to be framing it. The solutions are not fire Jake/keep killing fish.

    The great thing about the training solution is that it can be a group event and learning opportunity for everyone such that Jake doesn’t feel like any fingers are being pointed in his direction. I have used this as a starting point for corrections on teams I have managed before, and it has solved many issues.

    Ex: “Hey everyone, it has been noticed that there have been some inconsistencies with the upkeep of the fish tank maintenance. We’d like to get together as a group and make sure that everyone involved with helping us with this are on the same page with our procedures so we can maintain consistency and quality for the fish in the office. We appreciate all the things everyone is doing to help keep the much loved fish around for staff and students!”

    The key is making it a group event, so loop in as many people as possible for a review session.

    Also, to be clear, the solution should NEVER be to just keep letting more fish die.

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    1. Resentful Oreos*

      I noted in a reply to another comment that there are probably fish keepers who would LOVE to give a “Crash Course In Fish Care” course to people who want to do the right thing by their pet fish but don’t quite know how. If there’s no aquarium supply store in the area I am sure Task Rabbit or even an aquarium forum would be happy to supply a fish a-fish-ionado for a fee.

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  72. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    Fish should not be treated like disposable decorationa – they are living creatures. Treat them with respect and train employees before letting them care for aquariums or fish.

    Reply ↓
    1. Resentful Oreos*

      Agreed. And large chain pet stores don’t always know very much about fish keeping, for that matter. Independently owned aquarium shops are good, and I bet someplace like TaskRabbit or even just asking around on a forum will turn up aquarium hobbyists or even professionals willing to give a Fish Care 101 course for a fee.

      Reply ↓

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