boss was upset I wanted to leave when our A/C failed, when a beloved figure is laid off, and more

by Alison Green on April 7, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My boss was upset I wanted to leave when our A/C failed

Last year, my coworker spent the majority of an eight-hour Saturday shift in a public building with no operable bathroom. She reported a sewage backup to our boss and the answering service of the facilities department responsible for maintaining the toilets, but her calls for help went unanswered.

This was on my mind last Saturday, when our building’s A/C failed. I put in the same calls, but the only response I got was my boss asking me to let her know if it gets any hotter. A little before noon, I texted back: “It’s hotter! If help is on the way, let me know. Because otherwise, I am not going to come back from my lunch break. It’s just too hot to finish out my shift.”

My boss called back and told me that if I did not come back from lunch, others would almost certainly follow until there would not be enough staff to keep the building open. And also, she could not even start the approval process to close the building until the temperature rose another five degrees, a temperature that represents an OSHA violation. So I had to come back from lunch to finish my shift.

I appreciate the tough position she is in, and I get that the most expedient way for her to do her job is to demand that I do mine. But my job involves air conditioning! And the last time a similar situation happened, she left my coworker stranded! As far as I know, she did not even try to summon help or start the building failure approval process even though the situation then was much more dire.

In the end, a repairman did arrive and cool us down so I was able to happily finish my shift. But my boss is very unhappy because I threatened to leave. Was there a better way for me to handle this?

It’s hard to know without knowing what kind of temperatures we’re talking about. OSHA doesn’t require specific temperatures, but they do recommend 68-76° F — so if your boss was saying she couldn’t close the building until it got to 77° … well, that doesn’t seem that outrageous (in fact, 78° is supposedly the best eco-friendly thermostat setpoint in the summer). That said, temperature is very personal (my husband might expire at that temperature) and if you’re too hot to comfortably work, you’re too hot to comfortably work, and explaining that wasn’t out of line.

Ultimately I think it really depends on (a) how much of your concern was based on knowing no one had been responsive to your coworker’s bathroom situation last year and worrying this would be the same, versus (b) your actual temperature/level of discomfort. If your concern was the former rather than the latter, telling your boss that you didn’t plan to come back from lunch based on something you feared might happen but hadn’t actually happened yet was overkill … although in that case it would have been fine to say, “There’s a point where it won’t be feasible for people to stay and work, so if that happens we’ll need to leave early.”

But either way, your boss being “very unhappy” over this is a bit much.

2. Does board member’s comment mean I’m about to get a big raise?

I work in a nonprofit where the staff and the board really get along and generally have friendly relationships. Tonight, I ran into a member of the executive committee at my nephew’s track meet. She’s a realtor by trade, and while we were chatting, she said, “So, you’ve been in this city for a while, have you thought about buying a house?” I laughed and basically said, “You know what my salary is. What are you on and can I have some?” Her response was something cryptic about waiting for review season.

Now, my boss had recently mentioned something about moving me from an associate in my department to potentially leading a small team, which I assumed would come with a pay bump, but definitely not one that moves me from “my car is 15 years old and I’m dreading the day it bites it” territory to “able to afford a house” territory.

On one hand, this is great news. On the other, this was a cryptic suggestion about a number that is probably not official yet, and I have no idea if what I’m even imagining she means is what she actually means (like most cities, it costs a lot less to get a house in some parts than others). So my question is, how do I not get too attached to this idea? I’m afraid that she’s set my hopes too high and my new number won’t measure up. Or maybe things change and I don’t get the promotion after all. Before this conversation, I was perfectly happy at the salary I’m at for the job that I do in the city where I live. Now I’m just anxious. Please help!

Put it out of your head entirely. There’s a decent chance that she was speaking to you as a real estate agent rather than a board member, and real estate agents like to encourage people to buy property. “Wait until review season” does not necessarily mean “you are about to get an enormous pay bump that will put buying a house within reach.” It could just mean “maybe you’ll get a raise, but I have no idea whether that will change anything meaningful about your ability to buy property” (as she doesn’t know your expenses, whether you have a partner whose income will go toward a house too, etc.) … or it could be a semi-uncomfortable “yeah, our salaries are low, hopefully you’ll get a bump soon” … or it could mean nothing at all and just be a pleasant nicety with no meaning attached to it. Frankly, she shouldn’t be intimating anything about any potential raise outside of official channels, and there’s a good chance that she didn’t mean to for you to take her remark as seriously as you did (even though it’s understandable that you did!).

That could all turn out to be wrong, of course. Maybe you’re about to get a huge raise! But you’re much better off attributing no meaning to her comment, and then letting it be a happy surprise if that does happen.

3. When a beloved figure is laid off, is fan outcry helpful or hurtful?

I’m hoping to hear your take on a situation from my doll collecting hobby. Mattel and Barbie are some of the biggest names in this space, and in a recent round of Mattel layoffs, a beloved Barbie doll designer named Bill Greening was included. The community reaction was immediate — people were sharing corporate contact information, people declaring on social media they wouldn’t add to their collection unless he was reinstated, etc. There’s even a change.org petition to get him rehired with 2,600 signatures.

I know that fan-related businesses come with a whole series of unique challenges, but collector dolls are a relatively small piece of Mattel’s business. Obviously there’s a lot going on over there the community isn’t privy to — there were over 100 employees laid off, but Bill is the one with the active community relationships that have rallied in support. In your opinion, is this community outrage likely to be more helpful or hurtful for Greening’s future employment opportunities, either with Mattel or with another toy company? If this is hurtful, can you think of positive ways for the community to support him?

I don’t know enough about the situation to comment with any nuance, but in general this kind of thing doesn’t tend to hurt people’s future ability to get hired and can sometimes help, by demonstrating community enthusiasm for the person and creating an opening for another company to capitalize on that fan base. It’s unlikely that the original employer will reinstate him based on the outrage (and presumably they were aware of his fan base before deciding to lay him off) but it’s not out of the realm of possibility either. (Although if you were Bill, would you go back if they offered? If they did offer, though, he’d be in a good position to try to negotiate something extra out of it.)

4. I’m applying for a job at my husband’s company — when should I mention it?

I received an interview request today for a position I’m very interested in — at my husband’s employer. He’s been there going on 13 years, and one of the reasons I applied for the role in the first place is the positive experience he’s had as an employee there.

The position I applied for is completely unrelated to what he does, and we wouldn’t even be working in the same office building (or in the same town, for that matter — the company has a pretty substantial presence in our area). But my home address is on my resume, and one of the first things that pops up when you Google either of our names is our wedding announcement.

Do I mention anything during the initial interview? I’m not trying to hide anything from the interviewer, but it also doesn’t feel like it would be super helpful to volunteer information about my spouse when it might not be necessary. Complicating things slightly is the fact that the role I’m applying for is within HR.

If the job wasn’t in HR, I’d say to bring it up at the offer stage — as a sort of covering-your-bases FYI, so that it doesn’t look weird that you never mentioned it and in case they have any policies that would make that a problem (which is unlikely given the very separate jobs, but it’s better to find out before accepting if they do).

But with the job being in HR, you should mention it earlier, since being in HR increases the chances that it might be something they wouldn’t allow. Given that, I’d mention it in the first interview so that you don’t waste your time if it’s a no-go, framed as, “I wanted to mention my spouse works in the X division. I don’t foresee that being an issue for us, but since the job is in HR, I want to flag it now in case that would pose any concerns for you.”

5. “Couldn’t care less” vs. “could care less”

This isn’t an office question but more of a clarification. I have several times noticed letter writers using the phrase “could care less.” I was under the impression it should be “couldn’t care less” because that announces that I am at the lowest level of caring. By saying somebody “could care less,” it means they are not quite at rock bottom, but I don’t think that is the message the writer is trying to convey. Am I wrong?

You are correct; the expression is properly “couldn’t care less,” for the reason you said. However, the scone is out of the barn on that one; “could care less” has been used for so long that in practice they’ve become interchangeable. (Here is Merriam-Webster agreeing with me.)

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{ 478 comments }

{ 478 comments… read them below or add one }

    1. Cmdrshprd*

      I literally burst into flames when people say “could care less,” to mean the opposite.

      Using Literally when people actually mean figuratively is my pet peeve. I’ve given up since Miriam also concedes people use it interchangeably now too.

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      2. Rogue Slime Mold*

        There is a fascinating history where all our words that once meant “What I am saying is true and not exaggerated” (really, truly, actually, very (verily), literally, etc) get turned into emphasizers.

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      3. Barry*

        I’ve only ever heard Americans say the phrase the “other” way with the word “could”. First time I heard it it annoyed me but I soon realised it was just how the phrase is used in general American speaking and writing- and nearly every person I met in the US said it the same way. I personally have always chalked it up to one of those UK/ US communication differences like trousers and pants, or bum bags and fanny packs. Not a big deal- just a difference you get used to as you understand the sentiment behind it

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        1. Pixel*

          As a US American, I hear people saying it both ways (and have found “could care less” confusing since I was a child)

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        2. Office Party Unicorn*

          This is because most US citizens don’t speak English very well.
          Immigrants to our country usually speak it better than we do.
          It’s a heartbreaking truth to this language lover.

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          1. Tea for Two*

            Speaking one’s native dialect doesn’t mean speaking the language badly. AAVE speakers are an example of a commonly discussed group that suffers from this line of reasoning. (This language lover thinks linguistic variation is neat!)

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        3. Timothy (TRiG)*

          It’s an interesting example of the perception of out-group homogeneity. Only Americans say “could care less”, so it is the inaccurate perception of non-Americans that all Americans say “could care less”. This is a minor and inoffensive example of a phenomenon which can in some situations be quite serious.

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      4. HailRobonia*

        Literally originally meant “pertaining to letters.” It’s meaning has ALREADY changed. Prescriptivism is a losing battle.

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        2. Emmy Noether*

          I wouldn’t say “pertaining” to letters. It’s from letter as for example in “letter of the law” as opposed to “spirit of the law” – direct, as-written. Which is a figurative way of expressing the concept, but still the original meaning.

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      5. MCMonkeybean*

        My pet peeve is when people say someone meant to say “figuratively.” Literally no one ever meant to say that!

        “My head figuratively exploded” is just not something that people say or have ever said. The word “figuratively” does not add anything to that sentence and would be better left out entirely to simply say “my head exploded.” But frequently that does not feel emphatic enough, so adding “literally” is a normal way to add dramatic effect. Using “literally” when something was not actually literal is simply hyperbolic which is a perfectly valid rhetorical device.

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          1. JustCuz*

            Ya know, I never participate in these debates because 1 the words people use to describe things is very arbitrary to me. Like if tomorrow someone started calling couches butt-plants I would *literally* not care as long as the point gets across. As an analyst, engineer, and data scientist, it actually drives me pretty crazy how people get hung up on words and can’t seem to grasp the ***ideas*** behind it. Add in working for multiple internal companies with CEOs and COO and VPs from all over the world, and **I couldn’t care less** about arguments over “appropriate word usage”. And not to mention how I have seen it is used by racist English speakers to other people and the way anarchistic people use it to hold up processes.

            Watching these arguments play out though – I think there a lot of well-meaning people who are just very literal in their thinking. For instance, I will always tell anyone I am making analytics for that they could designate it all in bunny heads and smiley faces for all I care. Just tell me what makes sense to you – because a lot of people are very literal and that if the words don’t “seem” right, they *literally* cannot grasp the ideas behind.

            And I get that, because I can be that way about the way math concepts are described in the English language myself.

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            1. JustCuz*

              Haha how did it change “narcissistic” people into “anarchistic” people lmfao. You can see my autocorrect isn’t agreeing with the English language today. But I hope you get the point anyway!

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            2. Pescadero*

              Lots of standards are arbitrary. They’re still useful.

              Language is descriptive, but there is absolutely a value to standardization – even when the chosen standard is in no way logical.

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              1. JustCuz*

                Yes but by in large, most people can adapt. Like if you start at a new company what they called at your last job as “Couch” and at your new job is called “Butt-plants”, it is expected of you to change your understanding and adapt. Some people don’t though. They can’t adapt. It is important to understand this when you are managing others and processes.

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        2. Melody Powers*

          Yes! That’s my pet peeve too. Replacing “literally” with “figuratively” would weaken the statement, which is the opposite of what they’re trying to do. I don’t mind the annoyance with that use of “literally” but suggesting a fix that isn’t actually a fix is what bugs me.

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      6. Czhorat*

        Literally literally no longer means literally.

        “Peruse” once meant “to study carefully”.

        Etc, etc.

        When someone uses a word in a way that feels wrong to me I’ve learned to just let it slide and engage with the content rather than the style (unless it’s something I’ve been specifically tasked with editting).

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        1. Yankees fans are awesome!!*

          “Literally” does mean literally, though, and it’s useful in emphasizing one’s point, especially in thosevthat are figurative or proverbial.

          Last week, on a true crime show, a detective noted that he and his team had trouble finding evidence at a crime scene, and that their efforts were akin to literally looking for a needle in a haystack. That works if a needle and a haystack are part of the evidence; otherwise, it’s an incorrect usage of “literally.”

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      7. Tea for Two*

        I’m not sure why “literally” is a word people get particularly hung up on. Association with valley girls maybe? People get hung up on “like” as an intensifier, too. But I’m not sure why “literally” is worse than other slang shifts. I’m not saying your tie is either “chilly,” “tidy” or “evil” if I call it “cool,” “neat” or “wicked.”

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    3. linger*

      Yeah, I’ve just had to learn to let that one go.
      If it helps you make it make sense with the intended meaning, just think of it as a dry
      “I could care less … but I can’t be bothered making the effort to do so.”

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      1. Cate*

        Yes, this is often what I say, ‘I could care less, but that would require effort’ and I mean it as indifference with a dash of humour. The correct couldn’t care less is for indifference not even worthy of a cheap joke.

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        1. commensally*

          Yep, this. If I say “I could care less” it means “I don’t care enough to make the effort to care less than I already do”.

          If I say “I couldn’t care less” it means I am making an effort to care as little as possible.

          Yes, it’s silly, but I couldn’t care less!

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          1. Annie*

            haha, but if you couldn’t care less, then you already don’t care at all, so there’s no effort involved! :)

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            1. commensally*

              But clearly I do care about *not* caring or I wouldn’t have made the effort to figure out if it was possible to care less!

              If I couldn’t care less, I don’t care but I do care about not caring, you see.
              If I could care less, I don’t even care whether I care or not….

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          2. Annie*

            In the video below by Cinn who links a youtube for David Mitchell’s Soapbox on Couldn’t Care Less, he actually interprets it the other way around. Saying “I Could Care Less” means that you do Care, at some level, so there is some level of effort and therefore it’s possible to Care Less. Whereas “I Couldn’t Care Less” means you don’t care at all, so there is no effort involved!

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      2. Bronze Betty*

        I need to reframe it that way in my head. Still hard to let that go, though.

        Slight tanget: I’ve raised my kids to speak “proper English” to the point where they jokingly call me The Grammar Police, and what’s happened? They are now adults and I’ve had some good influence there: 1) my daughter jokes that she’s inherited that role, and 2) my son and I have a shared love of GoT’s Stannis Baratheon’s correction of “less” with “fewer.” I promise I do nearly all of my grammar corrections in my head (don’t get me started on apostrophes!), but it’s a different matter when you’re raising your kids.

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        1. Wounded, erratic stink bugs*

          Different strokes for different folks. I’m trying to raise my daughter to understand the value of prescriptivism, understand what standard English is and when to use it, and understand the underlying classism, regionalism, etc. in assigning one set of grammatical rules superiority over others. Like you, I do most of my corrections in my head, but it’s a different matter when you’re raising your kids.

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        2. Baldrick*

          I’m in love with the Bristol grammar vigilante and their hatred of incorrect apostrophes to the extent that they act on it:

          GRAMMAR SCHOOLED Night time word vigilante goes out in dead of night to correct signs with rogue apostrophes
          The masked crusader has been saving the city from poor grammar for the last 13 years

          By day the he is a highly-qualified professional with his secret known only to a handful of close family and friends.

          But at night he becomes a shadowy figure who patrols the streets of Bristol, armed with his homemade ‘apostrophiser’ and purpose-built trestle.

          His specially-made tool reaches the higher signs on shopfronts and road signs, replacing or covering rogue apostrophes wherever he sees them.

          The vigilante – dubbed grammar’s answer to Banksy – started his quest when he corrected a shop sign for ‘Amy’s Nail’s’ – removing the second apostrophe.

          Since then he has put a stop to dozens of other rogue apostrophes around the city – including a hairdressers, estate agents and garages.

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        3. Baldrick*

          My post appears to be hung up – if you want a good laugh then search for Bristol, grammar, and apostrophes. Someone is going around the city painting over or adding them as needed!

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    4. Nanani*

      Mine is “centered around” instead of “centered on”. The center is a point! It’s not around anything! The circle is centered on it!

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    5. Cinn*

      There’s a comedy sketch by David Mitchell on this phrase that I always end up thinking about when I hear/read it. I’ll see if I can find it and link in a reply.

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    6. word nerd*

      I don’t love it myself, but I recognize that idioms often don’t make sense and that’s just the nature of idioms. E.g. falling head over heels–your head is already over your heels normally, so shouldn’t it be “heels over head” if you want to talk about falling or feeling upside down?

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      1. Benihana scene stealer*

        That was apparently a big source of debate for the GoGos when they were writing the lyrics (The working title was “Shoes over caps”)

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    7. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I split the difference. I could care less, but that’d be a major effort.

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    8. Csevet Aisava*

      Maybe someone from the southern U.S. could verify, but a friend who moved to Kentucky mentioned that when a local responds “I don’t care to,” it actually means “I don’t mind.” ?! She definitely thought she was being rejected a few times when the intent was the opposite. Not totally connected to the thread, but language is weird!

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      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I get strange look when someone asks if I “would mind doing them a favor,” I reply “no, not at all,” and then do the favor.

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        1. word nerd*

          There are all sorts of weird/illogical things we say whose meaning we convey through tone. I’m prone to “Yeah, no” myself, and I imagine the following exchange would be confusing for someone learning English:

          Clerk: Would you like this random thing I’ve been told to upsell?
          Customer: I’m good.

          That exchange kinda reminds me of the letter last week about people who don’t answer questions directly. You haven’t said yes or no but somehow implied no by remarking on your state of being??

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          1. Lenora Rose*

            Especially when “Yeah, no” and “no, yeah” mean *completely* different things, and both are different from “no” and “yeah”, AND from “no, no” and “yeah, yeah”…

            For those confused:
            “Yeah, no” is generally “I hear and understand what you said, but I don’t agree/it’s not going to happen”
            “No, yeah” is an agreement, generally; I’m not sure I can articulate the nuance between this and “yeah” even though it’s come out of my mouth more than a few times.
            “No, no”: it’s not that the person saying it disagrees, quite; it’s they think the person they’re answering has the wrong end of the stick entirely, and misunderstood.
            “Yeah, yeah”: usually indicates you’re saying something that’s been said before and/or going on too long on the topic, with mild exasperation or not-mild sarcasm, depending on whether friendly or not.

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            2. JB (not in Houston)*

              Is anyone confused by those usages? I thought they were all pretty common, at least in the US

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            3. Critical Rolls*

              I’m feeling my way here, but I think I tend to use “no, yeah” when I’m concurring with someone’s negative/disagreement with something else. As in, my coworker says, “I don’t think 2,000 banana peels will be enough,” and I respond, “No, yeah, this is for sure a 5,000 banana peel job.”

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        2. Pixel*

          Yeah… I try to say, “I wouldn’t mind at all” so that it’s clear. It’s always been such a difficult sentence type for me to figure out how to answer – is “yes” or “no” the agreement? I often end up stuttering or struggling to answer

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      2. Maiamia*

        That is definitely true, at least around my local area! I grew up in Eastern TN, very near the KY/NC border. It’s one of those phrases that I never gave a second thought to until I graduated college and traveled a bit!

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      4. MCT*

        Something similar I encountered few years ago: Saying something like “My car needs fixed” for what I would say as “My car needs to be fixed”. I understand this is common in some parts of the U.S. (the South?) but I (from the northeast) had never heard it before.

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        1. Nightengale*

          Appalachia specifically, more than the US south.

          (Northeastener who was very confused when moving to West Virginia and now live in Pittsburgh)

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    9. Phony Genius*

      I guess if you say “I could care less” sarcastically, it may work. But otherwise, it’s wrong.

      The TV show Frasier had a good way of expressing the same sentiment, explaining “if I were using that microscope right now…I still wouldn’t be able to locate my interest in your problem.” (The microscope was a very powerful electron microscope.)

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      1. JustaTech*

        My favorite take on that was a Romanist (someone who studies the ancient Romans) talking about an archeological site that might also have a medieval monastery on it (as well as the Roman stuff):
        “Not even with the finest electron microscope in the world could you detect my interest in a monastic site.”
        (Ah, Time Team.)

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    10. Rosyglasses*

      Similar pet peeve is when people say irregardless… but sometimes I wonder if I should be worrying more about people’s reading comprehension and critical thinking skills instead of poor grammar!

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    11. Kristi*

      I found it annoying at first, until I came across “I could care less, but it would be difficult”. Now I try to read it as a shorthand for that, and occasionally use the phrasing.

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    12. Koala*

      The thing is that you’re supposed to say it sarcastically (think “welllllllll, I COULD care less” with an eye roll and maybe smacking your gum for emphasis — I don’t know why I’m envisioning a 1980’s teen with large bleached blond hair but I am), the implication being that if you made some real effort you could possibly care less than you currently do but it would be extremely hard. But these days people say it with no inflection and it consequently makes no damn sense.

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    13. Waffles*

      My biggest pet peeve is the young people’s trend of being OBSESSED with everything. I think some people must use that word 1,000 times a day. It drives me crazy. Yes I’m old :)

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    14. NoIWontFixYourComputer*

      I always just read it as sarcasm, as in “I could care less [if I really REALLY tried hard]”

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    15. Manders*

      I just take it literally and expand it in my head. I could care less about this but I care just enough to whine about it right now.

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  2. Jessie J*

    “Couldn’t care less” aka “Could not care any less” is the accurate term.
    I knew someone who insisted it was “could care less” and I asked him to explain that way of saying it, it means you still care so???

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    1. Myrin*

      Yeah, I’m always puzzled by this, and for once not because I’m a pedant but because using just “could” doesn’t make any sense! (Same with “could of” instead of “could have”. I understand mishearing it but what is the “of”-version supposed to mean, then?!)

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      1. allathian*

        I’m also a pedant and these pet peeves annoy me. I also judge people who do that, and people who can’t spell worth shit. But only in my head.

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        1. DJ Abbott*

          IME spelling is more about how a person’s brain works than their intelligence or education. As a visual learner, I happen to be a very good speller. People who can’t spell are not visual learners, they are auditory. Since English is a mess of words that are not spelled the way they sound, auditory learners have a hard time with spelling, no matter how smart or educated they are.
          I’m good speller, but I had a very hard time taking in information verbally until I started studying Spanish as an adult with a teacher who had me record our lessons and listen to them. Taking in information verbally was a work in progress for a long time.

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          1. bamcheeks*

            I’m a good speller, and sometimes have difficulty recognising that words are homonyms because obviously I must be pronouncing prints and prince differently because I have differently letters in my head.

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          2. Anonym*

            Yes – spelling is a really specific skill, and I’ve seen no parallels with intelligence, effort, general diligence or even overall attention to detail. I’m a very good speller, in large part because misspellings really jump out at me. I got the trait from one parent, and my other parent and sibling just don’t see the errors as vividly. I also have a very visual brain – not sure if that’s why.

            That said, if something reaches professional publication with errors, judge away! That has little to do with the spelling skills of any individuals and everything to do with whether the producing entity has appropriate processes in place to ensure the quality of their work.

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            1. RussianInTexas*

              Interesting. I spell reasonably well, in both languages, but I am very terrible at writing when something is being spelled out for me verbally.
              I am too a very visual learner.

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      2. Emmy Noether*

        “Could of” is one of those mistakes only native speakers (or, more precisely, people who acquired a language phonetically) make. It’s because they pronounce it “could’ove” and are transcribing how they speak, whereas second language speakers are thinking about grammar (and sometimes make mistakes because they over-think grammar). It bothers me less since I’ve started analyzing what those mistakes tell me about the writer instead of just seeing them as mistakes.

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        1. Myrin*

          Oh, I know, it’s just visual nails-on-chalkboard for me (and I still think that even when acquiring a language through listening, one might want to think about what a construction like that actually means, but then again, I like language and grammar and do so automatically which is certainly not the case for everyone).

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      3. coffee*

        To be fair, there are a lot of English words that sound the same but mean different things, so they could be thinking it’s a different “of”, like how ‘bat’ is an animal and a piece of sporting equipment. Or they could be thinking “Isn’t language weird sometimes”. Or maybe they aren’t thinking about it at all, beyond “I got my meaning across so communication was successful”.

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      4. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Could have ==> Could’ve ==> Could of

        Not that I like it, I just see how it happened.
        ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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        1. Myrin*

          Yeah, that’s wht I meant by “I understand mishearing it” but I see now that I didn’t actually make that totally clear in my comment.

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      5. Jenna Webster*

        Rather than saying “could of,” they’re actually saying “could’ve,” an abbreviation for could have, but it doesn’t come out sounding that way to most people.

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          1. MCT*

            For whatever reason, “could have” bothers me more than “could care less”. Probably because “could have” isn’t really an issue when speaking (the pronunciations of “could’ve” and “could of “ are essentially indistinguishable), so I didn’t begin encountering it in significant quantity until the advent of internet discussion sites, while I’ve been hearing people say “could care less” for 50 years.

            Another one like this is people writing “loose” when they mean “lose”. I don’t think I ever encountered this until the internet, apparently because people change the spelling but not the pronunciation, so it’s another “writing only” case (when talking, they pronounce it like I would pronounce “lose”, but when writing, they spell it like I would spell “loose”). This is so common that I feel like I see it wrong more than I see it right. Does anyone know the history of this? Was it never “wrong”, but just some kind of alternate or regional or dialectical thing I happened to never be exposed to when I was growing up? Or like “could care less”, was it once wrong but has now become accepted?

            Yet another “writing only” example: “That peaked my interest”. I think the right word here is “piqued”, but similar to “could have”, people write the word(s) they think they’re hearing. This is another one that I don’t think I ever encountered until the internet, but that I probably see wrong more than I see it right. Or again, is this something that was never really wrong (so I’m wrong in thinking that it is), or that was once wrong but has become accepted?

            And one more example that I thought of while I was writing: I would write “jerry-rigged” but I see “jury-rigged” a lot. Another case where the pronunciation is similar enough that there isn’t any real difference when speaking. The latter doesn’t make any sense to me (no one’s talking about rigging a jury) but I suppose the former doesn’t either (no one’s suggesting that anyone named Jerry was involved in anything). What’s the story with this one?

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            1. MCT*

              One last example and then I promise I’ll stop: I often see people write things — again, on the internet — like “my parent’s house” (singular possessive of the noun “parent”) when I think they mean “my parents’ house” (plural possessive of the noun “parent”). Similar to the other examples, there would be no difference in pronunciation between the two when speaking. The difference is only apparent when writing.

              This is different from the other examples in that “my parent’s house” is perfectly grammatically correct; it isn’t really “wrong”. It seems like an odd construction, though. I feel like if more than one of your parents lives in the house, you’d call it your “parents’ house” (plural), but only one does, you would use “mother” or father” rather than “parent” (singular). In most contexts, including this one, it feels strange to me for someone to refer to their mother or father as “my parent”.

              Is this just an example of people using apostrophes incorrectly (which is my perception), or is there some reason why people deliberately choose the word “parent’s” in this situation (they’re only talking about one parent, and they want to be gender-neutral)?

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              1. Jackalope*

                I have indeed used “my parent’s house” when I was trying to be gender neutral. I had one of my parents die when I was fairly young, and while the other parent has since remarried, there was a time period when they lived alone. But since my one parent dying young is a distinguishing characteristic of mine, I’ll often keep genders to myself when online to make it less likely I’ll dox myself.

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            2. Run mad; don't faint*

              As I understand it “jury rigged” was originally a nautical term, meaning something put together hastily. I think “jury” in this case comes from the word for a type of sail. “Jerry rigging” is probably a combination of “jury rigging” and “Jerry built”. “Jerry built” is an old term for bad construction of something, usually a building. I know it predates the WWII use of “Jerry ” to describe Germans, butI don’t know the origin of the phrase

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            3. Valprehension*

              I *really* try not to be prescriptivist, but ‘could of’ also gets me every time. I don’t know why I hate it so much! It’s not even a little bit ambiguous or open to misinterpretation (like ‘could care less’ technically is).

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            4. Parcae*

              Although it irks me, I think misspelling lose as loose makes perfect sense. After all, lose rhymes with choose, not chose.

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            5. Myrin*

              Ooooh, what a fun little discussion!

              I think it’s generally that with the existence of the internet, you simply see much more of random strangers’ writing than without it. It’s basically the only way to read masses (!) of unedited (!!) text written by strangers (!!!).

              I’m an archivist and did a little project on our archive’s postcards last year and oh boy, people in 1895 basically made the exact same spelling and punctuation errors as they do today, which, weirdly, really surprised me – I had thought that people on the whole used to have a somewhat better understanding of these things but they very decidedly hadn’t, at least not in the area I live it. They used expressions which sound somewhat “fancy” from today’s perspective and clearly were more aware of the appropriate phrases and expressions to use in written form in specific circumstances, but beyond that – carnage!

              All that is to say that I’d guess that the percentage of people writing “loose” instead of “lose” and “peak” instead of “pique” probably hasn’t increased, you’re just more likely to see it now. I could be wrong, though!

              Run mad above already explained “jury-rigged” and I’m pretty sure that “my parents’ house” is just people getting apostrophes wrong, as per usual, except for the probably rare circumstances where they don’t want to identify which parent exactly they’re talking about.

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    2. Matt*

      As a software developer that’s a clear case of Boolean logic and (double) negation for me:

      I could care less = I care
      I couldn’t care less = I don’t care

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      1. coffee*

        Interestingly, languages follow different rules on whether a double negative turns into a positive, or if a double negative emphasises the negative.

        Formal English follows the first approach, but a number of English dialects follow the second one. “I didn’t do nothing” is a classic example.

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        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          I heard a story of a linguistics professor explaining this to students and pointing out that double positive doesn’t work the same way. To which one student called out “Yeah, right” in a tone that makes the negative clear.

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          1. Sloanicota*

            A friend of mine patiently explained that in Australian, “yeah, no” and “no, yeah” have opposite meanings are relatively clear to all. To be fair, there’s inflection at play there.

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    3. Hyaline*

      I’ve heard people saying it in a sarcastic tone, which returns it to making sense—“Well I could care less if I really tried” being the suggested interpretation.

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      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah, for all the pedants, I think it’s this – the idea is that it’s a dry/sarcastic version of the usual expression. “I couldn’t care less” is a factual, if not particularly warm statement, and the snarkier version is “I *could* care less” (no, I couldn’t).

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        1. Sloanicota*

          “I suppose if I really worked at it, I could care less about your problem, but it would be hard as I already care so little.” But honestly I’m chuckling at the idea of people getting so worked up about this as many idioms the world over are not literally understandable anymore. Not at all a uniquely American phenomenon.

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    4. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I knew someone who insisted it was “could care less” and I asked him to explain that way of saying it, it means you still care so???

      I guess it’s not even important enough to make sure how little you care is truly the bare minimum…

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      1. Miette*

        I feel like “could care less” has grown out of linguistic easiness–one less syllable in the phrase = more efficiency in speech. And we all know what’s meant anyway–pedants or not.

        That said, I’ve officially transitioned to, “I am out of f*cks (to give).” It’s much more colorful and personally satisfying–in the right situations, of course.

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    5. Emily Byrd Starr*

      It’s like the same thing as saying “I could do a lot worse, but I’m not going to call him anymore” when talking about a date.

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      1. Mellie*

        Your “oh” made me chuckle! It also reminded me of my doctor. We were taking about the weather, and she said, “wait, what is that in Celsius?” and looked it up on the exam room laptop. As a lifelong US American, I said, “where did you grow up?!” It was Canada. Actually, it could have been anywhere outside the US, I think… Just looked it up. One site says it’s the US (including territories) and Liberia, and another site doesn’t mention Liberia but includes Bahamas, Palau, Belize, Cayman Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, and Marshall Islands.

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    2. KeinName*

      That’s not very hot at all. Must be really regional the concern about untenable temperatures. We regularly have to work at 35 Celsius because aircon isn’t part of our culture, but climate change is. We get emails informing us how to cool ourselves down during the work day (which speak to how ineffective and tone deaf the people in health and safety are). I prefer that to the electricity use of outfitting 3000 people with aircon though, but that’s just me. I have trained myself on switching between very hot and very cold in the sauna and an unheated childhood house.

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      1. Tau*

        Same (and judging by your name we might be from the same country). I’ve had AC in offices before, but it’s not obligatory, very unusual in private spaces and I’m with you on the environmental impact. Especially if people are seriously cooling to 20 or 22C in high summer. The idea that 25C is too hot to comfortably work is causing a record scratch moment tbh.

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        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          We don’t know what the temperature was in the OP’s building, though.

          Also, can we please stop shaming A/C usage? We don’t do it for people putting on heating when it’s cold, and A/Cs generally don’t use more energy than heating does. More and more people are going to need to start using a/c to survive, so let’s not discourage people from not dying of heat stroke. And because we don’t know what the temperature was in the building, tsk-tsking the OP for not wanting to work in the heat isn’t helpful to her.

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          1. Tiny Clay Insects*

            As someone starting menopause and really struggling with my temperature regulation, thank you.

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          2. Poplar*

            I assumed we were talking about the temperature inside the building all along – it seems odd for the supervisor to need the temps outside to rise to above what OSHA states as recommended.

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          3. Froggy*

            we should certainly think critically if people require heating and keep heat at high levels (e.g., don’t need to heat everything to 75 so folks can wear light clothes all winter, 68 is completely livable and winter weight clothes exist. conversely, it really is not necessary to refrigerate buildings to the level common in the US. people are not going to get heat stroke and pass out at 78 degrees.

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            1. JB (not in Houston)*

              If we want to cut down on energy usage in this world, people’s a/c usage is not the place to start.

              And when I see people criticizing a/c usage online, it’s rarely a case of “don’t turn it down too much,” it’s “you should just sweat it out, it’s not that bad” or “you should move to places where it’s cooler” or “you should build differently so you don’t need a/c,” none of which is helpful to the people who currently live in hot places that are built around a/c usage. So sure, let’s think critically about energy usage, but let’s not start with people using a/c to control their comfort. There are so many other, better places to start. And none of this helps the OP–she didn’t say what the temperature inside was or whether it was trualy too hot to do her work. And if I were her, I’d say that working conditions become untenable somewhere before heat stroke and passing out become likely.

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              1. Pescadero*

                “If we want to cut down on energy usage in this world, people’s a/c usage is not the place to start. ”

                Air conditioning is responsible for 10% of all energy use world wide, and accounts for 20% of energy used in buildings worldwide.

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          4. Mouse named Anon*

            Alot of houses in the US are not built to be kept cool during the day in summer. Esp in the Midwest. In fact alot of houses built in the 50s, 60s and 70s were built with the idea that eventually AC would be used or added.

            I live in Ohio and the heat and humidity in the summer is awful and my house can get up to 80s by like 2pm.

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        1. Emmy Noether*

          The average aircon uses about 10-20 times the electricity of the average fan.

          The most efficient cooling trick is someone arriving early, when it’s still cool outside, and opening all windows wide. Maybe strategically place a fan to create a draft. Once outside temp rises above inside temp, close shutters and windows (especially on the sunny side) to shut in the cooler air and keep out the sun. You can also make a swamp cooler with a fan and a damp cloth (works really well as long as it’s dry heat).

          We need to learn how to build heat resistant buildings again. I once visited an old palace in Morocco that was built to catch the prevailing winds, and had a series of courtyards with water features, plants and shade. Amazingly cool despite the afternoon heat, zero electricity use.

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          1. Poplar*

            Yup.

            And on the flipside, we need to stop wondering why people wouldn’t have a nice large south-facing window in Arizona.

            Yes that is a thing I saw some influencer wonder about – “Why would you not let in all this natural light!!!” Honeycomb I’m in Europe in a place that doesn’t get nearly as hot and *I* know why you wouldn’t want that.

            We’ve gotten so used to have technology to handle these things for us that we have genuinely forgotten how to build homes that require less of it in the first place. Instead we get sugar cubes with not a shred of thinking about temperature except maybe good insulation. Even if you’re not willing to give up AC entirely (no judgement there)…Think about the savings on your electricity bill!

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            1. DJ Abbott*

              In one of the neighborhoods I lived recently, a gentrifier had put up a huge and obnoxiously pushy apartment building. With glass walls that face south and those windows that push out vertically and can’t be opened more than 6 inches.
              Sadly, there are people stupid enough to buy or rent apartments in a building like that.

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              1. DJ Abbott*

                I think I actually meant horizontally on the windows. You have to push them out at the bottom and prop them open with a little rod.

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            1. Emmy Noether*

              I chose my screen name in honor of my favorite theorem! Turns out I have a bunch of things in common with the real Emmy, too.

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          3. Frieda*

            Alas, my office is on the top floor of a building with windows that do not open. For the last two years our a/c and our heat have only worked when they want to, so we move from the 50s to the mid-80s sometimes within a few weeks as the powers that be weakly wave their hands over the boiler in an attempt to persuade it to work.

            At home we set the heat at 67 F (19 C) and we set a/c at 80 F (26.6 C) when we turn it on and use fans and strategically-opened windows until that point, so I’m not exceptionally fussy (or vulnerable to heat or cold), but at work there’s no way to get a cool breeze and it’s a humid region. It’s often more pleasant outside than inside and there’s only so much clothing you can shed in a professional context.

            “Not very hot at all” is really a YMMV situation, and people’s acclimation to heat, their clothing options, their access to water and fans, their age and health all play a role in how hot is too hot for work.

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            2. ScruffyInternHerder*

              And at home – nobody gets in my face about wearing shorts at tank tops when the house is at 82*F. Its not considered acceptable office wear, and yes, it has in fact gotten that warm in our office pretty regularly (during winter its the opposite and below 62*F). Its an office building. The windows don’t function and don’t have black-out style window treatments.

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            3. JustaTech*

              I would love to do more “windows and fans” in my house, but I have a toddler and casement windows, the kind that open out like a door, rather than up or down, and no one sells a window-limiter that works if you have screens.
              (Why? Why doesn’t this piece of safety equipment exist? I don’t want my kid falling out the window, but I also want the option of opening the window. I don’t want to have to run the A/C most of the year for one room.)

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            4. Parrhesia25*

              And the humidity level. AC doesn’t just lower the temperature it lowers the humidity. The temperature could be fine but if the humidity is too high it will feel stuffy or like a sauna. The humidity will eventually cause damage but even before that morale will nosedive and people will get cranky.

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          4. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

            We have huge, south facing windows on our home. It’s both amazing how much of a difference having the blinds and curtains open in the winter and closed in the summer makes (like 5-10 degrees in the summer, and the house will literally heat on sunshine down to like 37F in the winter with the shades open), and how resistant my family is to using those blinds and curtains strategically.

            I’m still trying to get better about getting cold air into the house before the daily heat kicks up this summer.

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          5. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

            That trick works in drier places. In humid places, all you’re going to get is mugginess throughout the whole building.

            It also assumes there are windows to open. My entire building has windows, but none of them open.

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          6. KateM*

            So if this average aircon works for a 20 person office, it is up to twice as efficient as all those people using a fan each? If we are thinking about same fans, that is.

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            1. Pescadero*

              A home air conditioner than can cool ~1500 square feet uses as much energy as about 60 box fans.

              So if we assume 10’x10′ offices –

              One fan in each office: ~1000 watts per hour
              One home size AC unit covering 2K square feet: ~3500 watts per hour.

              So the AC would use about 3x as much energy as the fans.

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          7. RussianInTexas*

            If I open the windows from mid-April to mid-October, my house will resemble a sauna. It is about 26C with 80% humidity at 7am, and the heat goes from there. It does not get below 23C-ish overnight, and the humidity does not let up through the entire day. High temps reach over 35c daily from June through September, as a norm.
            Yes, I will be using my A/C. In fact, we do keep it at 75f/24c standard, with 72f/22c programmed for overnight. Even with that, my upstairs office gets to about 79f/26c by the afternoon, and I have to run a fan, because it’s really hot. I work in a light tank dress and it’s hot. Yes, all blinds are permanently closed during the summer.
            It’s just hot. It’s humid subtropics, and it’s hot. That’s all there is.

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          8. Run mad; don't faint*

            I live in an area where the summer temps never really get low early in the day. The lows tend to be about 77, and that’s usually between 3-5 in the morning. Add that to the high humidity here and the usual lack of breeze during the hot months, and a/c becomes a necessity. Yes, we probably could build our homes and offices differently to make them cooler and hopefully in the future we will. But right now, we have to live and work in buildings that are already here.

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            1. Coverage Associate*

              Yup. California here. We don’t deal with summer humidity, but the temperature doesn’t fall much overnight, and a dark roof means that our apartment gets hotter than the outside temperature during the day, no matter how carefully we tend to windows, fans, and shades. During heat waves, some of which kill people, the best we can do overnight is get the apartment down to the outside daytime temperature, not the outside overnight temperature.

              I just bought a second portable A/C last week for the coming summer.

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          9. Flor*

            IMO it’s not just that we’ve forgotten how to build heat-resistant buildings, though that might apply in areas that have more consistently warm temperatures, but that areas that are typically cool are now getting hotter. Look at the UK, for instance. The classic British summer is mid-teens and rainy. It’s a heat wave if the temperature is above somewhere in the mid to high 20s (depending on geography) for more than three days. Winters are, and will remain, cool, damp and windy. British buildings are traditionally built to keep heat in, because most of the time the outdoor temperature is below a comfortable room temperature, which is very different from Morocco. Then a few years ago London hit 40 degrees, and all the London buildings built for the traditional British climate (many of them built decades or over a century ago) were roasting.

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      3. Matt*

        As an European I’d second that. For me the hot summer times are the only instance when I’m sometimes really motivated to come into office instead of WFH when I have 30° Celsius at home and the office A/C at least makes it 27ish.

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      4. allathian*

        People typically don’t have aircon at home here in Finland, either, although it’s becoming more common as heat pumps become more common. They’re just as good at cooling down as heating up.

        That said, offices generally try to stick to 25 C in the summer and 21 C in the winter. At more than 28 C/82.4 F employers are required to provide breaks for employees in cooler temps. These are work time, so they can be required to do work during the extra breaks, but 10 minutes per hour is a lot of breaks. Much less disruptive to cool things down. If temps increase above 33 C/94.1 F, the required break time is 15 minutes every hour.

        The extra breaks are particularly important for people who do even light physical work, like shelving in a store, never mind hard physical labor like construction work. In such jobs, PPE frequently aggravates the situation further. It’s no surprise that a sizable minority of construction workers in the summer seem to be seasonal immigrants who come here for a few months to earn enough to support their family for the whole year, they don’t suffer from the heat as much as us Northern folks do.

        In studies of mortality in Europe, they’ve found that in Scandinavia, the preferred temperature, i.e. the temperature with the lowest mortality, is an average temperature of 14 C/57.2 F. In Greece it’s 28 C/82.4 F. This means that the daytime temperatures can be considerably higher provided the nighttime temperatures are correspondingly lower. Humidity also plays a part in how dangerous hot temperatures get. But once you stray from the ideal in either direction, mortality rates go up. Healthy young adults and older teenagers generally have the best tolerance for extreme temperatures, which is why cold snaps and heatwaves tend to kill the old, the very young, and the sick.

        That said, when I was an intern in Spain in the late 90s, the office I worked at didn’t have aircon, and people simply sweated. It’s difficult to type when your sweaty fingers keep slipping off the keys. I have no idea how hot it got when temps outside reached 39 C/102 F, but I was very grateful for the fridge of bottled water we had as a perk. In addition, it helped a lot that because the town was in the mountains and there was no cloud cover until November the daytime maximum temperature around 39 C was tolerable because the nighttime minimum dropped to around 5 C/41 F. This meant that the stone buildings that had soaked up the heat during the day could get rid of it at night.

        At the office, as soon as I emptied one bottle, I opened another, and during the workday I drank so much water… But because it was so hot, I didn’t need any more bathroom breaks than usual, I just sweated it out. We also got salted snacks to munch on as a perk. Luckily the dress code wasn’t formal, I tended to wear loose summer dresses, wraparound skirts with loose tops, or loose pant suits that resembled Pakistani salwar kameez, and open-toed flat shoes/sandals. Form-fitting clothes would’ve been hideously uncomfortable.

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      5. Emmy Noether*

        If you are where your name indicates, 35°C (95°F) is the legal limit where a space becomes unfit to work in. I agree that 25°C (78°F) is a perfectly normal summer inside temp. Also avoids temperature shocks when going in/out of buildings, and means you can dress for the weather without absurdly needing to carry a cardigan for inside.

        Although if it reaches that temp inside where LW is now, in April, I bet they are somewhere where AC is indeed needed in the summer (to cool down to 25°C, not 19°C!!)

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        1. Myrin*

          Oh, the temperature shocks and the (un)necessary cardigan!

          My office is in the basement and during the summer, I always want to turn straight around again when I’ve barely ascended the first flight of stairs because it’s such a marked difference, and it of course becomes worse the higher up you go.

          And I always need to have the famed cardigan or jacket in my office because I’m generally dressed for warmth but then in my office, the warmth is Not There.

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          1. MDP*

            My workplace gets very cold (around 20 degrees C) in summer, to the point where I wear thermal leggings, warm socks and a cardigan. There’s nothing we can do about the air conditioning, but thankfully we have a little space heater which we break out once management leaves for the day.

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            1. Momma Bear*

              I finally asked for the air to be shut off in my office. I will revisit this when it’s 100F with pea soup humidity outside, but I was so cold I was getting tea just to warm my hands in the middle of July. The air moved papers on my desk. You might want to see if there’s a way to redirect air around you or cut it off strategically.

              Insofar as LW, I think it’s very situationally dependent. I’ve had times when the A/C is off and it’s above 80F in most of the building. We have gone home to work if the temps don’t come down in an hour or so. It can be bad not just for humans but for equipment. It might help LW to have a baseline for what the boss means and a plan to deal with it between their personal comfort level and “time to leave the office.” Can a fan help or is it just really unbearable?

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              1. Coverage Associate*

                As part of the Covid HVAC revamp, the ventilation was actually shut off to my side of the office. After suffering my whole career in heavy office clothes 12 months of the year, and after having to buy business casual summer clothes for WFH, no A/C was fine with me until my office reached 80 degrees. Then I complained and discovered that there was no ventilation to my side of the building floor.

                I keep a thermometer at work to know what are real HVAC issues and what’s in my head, so I was certain when it went from an acceptable 78 to an unacceptable 80.

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            2. Emmet Dash*

              Are you in Arizona by any chance? I encountered that a lot there. It made no sense to me until someone explained it’s a flex — it shows you can afford to spend the money it takes to run the A/C that much.

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        2. DJ Abbott*

          I have stopped buying pretty summer dresses and blouses, because everywhere I go the air conditioning is so high I would have to wear a sweater or jacket and leggings with them to be comfortable.

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      6. Anne Kaffeekanne*

        35C was the threshold at my last company – if inside temperatures went higher than that, we’d get the afternoon off. And yes, during heatwaves people would bring thermometers to monitor how close we were to hitzefrei.

        My employer now doesn’t do that because we can just work remotely so I guess the thinking is, if the office is too hot just go home. This doesn’t help me as someone who lives in a small flat right under the roof but alas.

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      7. Rebecca*

        I’m in France, where air con isn’t common at all. Climate change is happening and our heat wave every summer is a little worse, but we wouldn’t start grumbling about the heat until well above 30 degrees and we wouldn’t start thinking about closing work down until about 38 or 39. Usually our heat wave hits in July-August, when most folk are on holiday anyway and vacating the major cities.

        One year our heat wave hit early, before school let out, and when it hit about 38 we closed the middle and high schools because kids could reasonably be at home alone if they had to be, but the primary school I worked in stayed open because we had to provide child care, but child care was all we were providing. A few times that week it hit 40 in the afternoon and we were just concentrating on keeping kids cool and calm. I think at one point we brought them all outside and hosed them down in the playground – but still no AC.

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        1. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

          The French system of giving everyone 30 days of vacation is a little-known climate measure that more countries should adopt!

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        2. Mouse named Anon*

          I visited France in August 2024 and it was HOT. But we stayed in a small seaside town, and the house we rented was made to keep cool. It was thick cement and had lot of windows for breezes.

          We went to mountains for part of it, and even there it was hot. But again the place we stayed had thick walls and it wasn’t bad.

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        1. WellRed*

          Can confirm. It was 112 In phoenix. I got ho e that night and it was 68 and rainy in New England. The air at home was suffocating.

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          1. Momma Bear*

            I used to joke about “but it’s a *dry* heat” but it’s honestly true. I’ve been comfortable in the 90s in a desert but miserable back home where the humidity is much, much higher. Many summer days I run the AC not for the cool but to lower the humidity in the house. High 70s can be fine if it’s not swamp air.

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        3. CL*

          Yes. And whether the air is moving makes a big difference. I grew up in a part of the US where AC was in grocery stores and movie theaters but most schools and homes did not have it. 85 degrees and windows open with a light breeze was bearable. However, 85 degrees in an office where the windows don’t open and the air isn’t moving would be awful.

          Reply ↓
          1. Ann O'Nemity*

            Humidity and air flow make a huge difference. And when the building was built! Some old construction can have high ceilings, small windows, and thick walls, all of which can make the heat way more bearable, especially if modern insulation was added.

            Reply ↓
        4. Simon*

          This. I’m from Louisiana where the humidity can make the air feel like water, and opening a window in the summer is a great way to make the mugginess worse (as well as let a ton of bugs inside, lol). Spending a summer without indoor AC would be punishing

          Reply ↓
        5. RussianInTexas*

          Yes, where I live, Houston area, we do not get to cool off during nights due to the humidity and the stupidly high dew point. You feel like you are literally walking in water after the sunset.

          Reply ↓
      9. Seeking Second Childhood*

        We also don’t know how much physical activity the job requires, whether the office faces west, or if it’s in the desert which will start the day cold but get much hotter as the day goes on.

        I’ve worked in an unairconditioned building, and at some point I’d retreat to the coolest areas. It would have been worse if it weren’t a very casual dress code.
        Once we did get sent home — closer to 90°F/32.222°C.

        Reply ↓
      10. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        Keep in mind those were what Alison said. The OP never said how hot it was and the OP’s boss could have been wrong thinking that it had to be higher temp.

        Reply ↓
        1. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

          Yeah, there’s a LOT of judging of OP without any actual info about the temperature.

          Reply ↓
      11. Yorick*

        This doesn’t sound too hot, but it depends on whether they’re talking about outside temperatures or if they’re still seeing the inside temperature on the thermostat. In some buildings, it will be much hotter inside than outside. With no AC, my apartment is about 80F (about 26 C) when it’s like 60F (about 15 C) outside.

        Reply ↓
      12. Katy*

        Those are just example numbers thrown out by Alison; we don’t actually know the temp in the LW’s building.

        I teach in a building with no AC where it routinely gets to 85 in the classrooms, kids are getting sick from the heat, and we are just expected to teach as usual. I would guess this is similar – a temp you can technically work in but at cost to your health.

        Reply ↓
      13. The Petson from the Resume*

        The LW never mentioned the temperature. It sounds like she was afraid it would get too hot, but it did not. We don’t know what she meant.

        Where I live a building could get to above 100°(38°) in the summer and since we rely on electricity and A/C there may be no fans or ability to open windows. So it could potentially be unacceptable / unlivable.

        If that’s the case, though, one employee does not choose not to return after lunch … if the facility gets too hot the office needs to be closed.

        Reply ↓
      14. Jujuju*

        Same … I used to work at a Uni where they told us to stop working as soon as the temperatures in the office reached 35°C. Not because of the people in the office, but because the computers could be damaged above that temperature. Ah, the joys of academia.

        Reply ↓
      15. Critical Rolls*

        We don’t know the actual temps, how active the work OP is doing is, whether the air is circulating at all, what the humidity is… I’ve lived places that routinely got over 100 F in the summer, so I’m familiar with serious heat and more comfortable with it than most. I would not be dismissing someone who says they’re uncomfortably hot because I’m fine. Heat exhaustion is miserable and heat stroke is dangerous. Telling people they should be fine helps about as much as telling people they should try not being susceptible to sunburns.

        Reply ↓
        1. doreen*

          It’s true that we don’t know what the temperature is – but it’s also true that “uncomfortable” is very individual. I spend all winter sweating because my husband wants to keep the thermostat at 68F. I’d be more comfortable at 63 or so – but 68 certainly isn’t going to cause heatstroke or even heat exhaustion.

          Reply ↓
      16. commensally*

        I’m not sure how it is where you are, but in the US a lot of commercial/office/industrial buildings have no ventilation whatsoever when the aircon isn’t working, and most of them are built to trap heat. I am generally an anti-aircon person (don’t use it at all at home) but the comfort difference between 25 deg C with completely stagnant humid air and 35 deg C with fresh air and a nice breeze is astonishing.

        Reply ↓
    3. Jules the First*

      I can’t close a building until inside temp hits 32C/90F for more than a few hours. The one circumstance where I did have to close a building sooner was because the building was more than 10 storeys and the elevators were old and the engineer had laid down the law that the elevators could not be safely used past 30C/85F because their elderly cables stretched too far in the heat and the elevators then posed a trap hazard.

      Yeah, I stopped using the elevators completely when I read that report…

      Reply ↓
    4. amoeba*

      Yeah, if it’s actually those temperatures we’re talking about then, as a European where AC is less common, that’s… all very normal and reasonable and we’d 100% be expected to work as usual. Threatening to leave work if the temperature rises to 25 °C would seem ridiculously out of touch and yeah, my boss would not be amused at all.
      I’d say anything below 30 (so 86 F) would still be considered normal-ish in summer (although not comfortable, sure, but you’d just have to get a fan and dress accordingly!), at least for a day. But if it’s an old building, it can easily be in the lower 80s/26-29 °C all summer. We cope!

      Reply ↓
      1. londonedit*

        Yep. Here in the UK modern office buildings will have air con or some sort of means of keeping an ambient temperature, but we don’t tend to have the ‘chill everything down’ mindset that there is in the US – room temperature is generally accepted to be about 20C and you wouldn’t expect an office building to be much below that, even with air con. We’re increasingly getting hotter summers and the building I work in happens to be very old, listed (i.e. protected from development) and unsuitable for air con – we have mobile air con units that we use in the summer if it’s particularly warm, but generally we just get on with it. Hardly anyone has air con at home. Usually if it’s forecast to be above 30C for an extended period of time then an email will come round from Facilities saying that anyone who wants to work from home can do (otherwise we’re in the office 2/3 days a week), but generally you just adapt and dress for the weather. Our office is usually freezing cold in winter and boiling hot in summer, and you just dress accordingly!

        Reply ↓
        1. Agent Diane*

          This! When I had authority to close a regional office, no one would even try asking if the inside temp was below 28C. I was much more likely to close the place due to snow or if the heating failed in winter than close it due to heat.

          As others have pointed out, it’s entirely different if the work requires heavy manual work not sitting at a desk.

          Reply ↓
          1. TGIF*

            See this is the problem. Most people/businesses don’t take heat sensitivity seriously. Cold yeah but heat, nah you can make it. I am very heat intolerant and personally wouldn’t be able to work in temps above 70, or I feel very sick. So even sitting at a desk I can’t handle that. Working with no a/c would be an absolute no go for me.

            Reply ↓
            1. Zombeyonce*

              I feel the same. I could technically BE at work in warm temperatures but I’m not going to be able to actually do any work. When I get hot I can’t think straight, and I seem to get hotter than other people more easily. I just sit grumpily and can’t get anything done. It also makes it really hard to eat, which makes me even grumpier and less able to concentrate.

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        2. MsSolo (UK)*

          I’m having a very British “30C is okay to work in as long as you’re office isn’t damp and it’s not strenuous” while having spent today at the park where multiple felt that 14C was light sunbathing weather (no swimwear, but a lot of people lying around in t-shirts and shorts) because our ability to judge temperature is entirely weather based. 14C and sunny? lovely summer weather. 14C and cloudy? a return to winter.

          Reply ↓
    6. linger*

      Japanese data point: air-con operates in office spaces under so-called “Cool Biz” (in summer)/ “Warm Biz” (in winter) energy-saving rules. E.g. all office buildings across our campus had A/C settings imposing a minimum of 28C in summer and a maximum of 16C in winter. The former, in Tokyo summer humidity, I found unbearable for any extended period; I took to wearing icepacks (especially under my hat, which I referred to as my “hair-con”).

      Reply ↓
    7. bamcheeks*

      This assumes that it was five degrees under OSHA’s recommended temperature, but it’s perfectly possible that they have a much higher limit for shutting the building. It could have been over 80F and the manager was refusing to shut it until it reached 85F or something, which would be pretty unreasonable if OP was doing manual labour or working with food or something.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bluenyx*

        This seems more likely, so I’m glad Alison addressed that possibility. Honestly, the LW was probably more forceful than their manager expected, but they weren’t unreasonable to stand up for themselves. Their stance might even have gotten the repairs done faster, since I got the distinct impression from the manager’s response that the issue wasn’t being taken seriously until their message.

        Reply ↓
    8. Poplar*

      Huh. I don’t deal well with heat (I’m not from a hot climate) and even I think that’s…Not that hot? Definitely not tempretatures I’d call unbearable – with the caveat that we don’t know what LW’s job is but I have done pretty physical labour in hotter temperatures.

      I am curious what “My job involves airconditioning” means though…Like…Are you an AC inspector or…?

      Reply ↓
      2. Jackalope*

        Keep in mind that those are the guessed-at temps from Alison. The LW didn’t give any actual numbers, so these figures could be right or it could be (possibly much) warmer.

        Reply ↓
    9. Calanthea*

      Thanks for the conversion!

      Alison’s point about temperature sensitivity being personal is really clear from this thread! For me, 25 C is where my brain stops working. I can’t think deeply, I can’t follow a complex train of thought or conversation. At 28, I can’t really stand up any more. My colleagues are understanding and sympathetic, but there’s not much they can do! I’m not aware of it when it’s happening, but apparently I’m obviously unwell once the thermostat creeps up.

      I really struggled in the last few summers, where we’ve had heatwaves above 30 C for days on end. I worry that I will be one of the “heat related deaths,” and there’s nothing I can do to avoid it.

      Tl;Dr – for some people, 25 C really is “too hot to be able to work,” please don’t make people suffer through mild heat stroke for “the job.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Pom Mom*

        Worked summers in college for Brockway Glass. Big furnaces blowing Pepsi bottles. No air! Moved to Houston in a car without air. Lived through both just fine. Refraining from. making a Boomer comment.

        Reply ↓
      2. Lenora Rose*

        Depends what you’re doing in it. Outdoors on a summer day with a breeze? It’s extremely pleasant. Indoors? It’s sweaty and sticky and uncomfortable. I don’t like sitting in a house in temperatures where I start sweating if I *stand up and walk from one room to the other*. It would be distracting in a workplace, and worse for factory labour (that doesn’t actively involve furnaces or ovens of some kind and can’t avoid it — and most of those still have mitigations in place).

        Reply ↓
      3. Zombeyonce*

        Humidity and air movement makes all the difference. I could mostly work in that temperature (albeit very grumpily) if I had a fan and it was a dry heat and I was allowed to wear shorts and a tank top. But try that in a muggy area like the American South and it’s impossible, even with a fan and weather appropriate clothes.

        I’ve lived all over the US and summer is a very different beast in different places.

        Reply ↓
        1. RussianInTexas*

          Couple years ago the A/C went out in my house, in July, of course.
          The temperatures reached 90 degrees in my upstairs office in the course of 2 hours.

          Reply ↓
    11. Lenora Rose*

      Thank you for this!

      Yeah, based on that: 25.5 is a “sensible temperature” to keep a thermostat at in summer in that it means your thermostat isn’t struggling as hard to keep the interior cool and isn’t using as much energy or blowing as much heat outside, but is cool enough to prevent heat exhaustion or heatstroke … but I would be in misery if I had to do anything like housecleaning in that temperature, or anything other than sit still in light clothing and read/watch tv. It’s not *comfortable*.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lenora Rose*

        (Our house thermostat is set for heat to run if it drops below 19 in the day and 17 at night when we should all be asleep under blankets, and set to run AC above 23 or 23.5 all day round, though sometimes at nights we can turn it off and open windows instead, so I do believe in shifting the temperature for *some* efficiency and adaptation — but I have my limits, and I speak from experience of what happened when hubby tried to make the cooling temperature higher..)

        Reply ↓
      1. Valprehension*

        We can still have *some* imperial measurements, as a treat, though.

        Signed,
        a Canadian who immediately looked up the conversions when my kid got weighed in kg and measured in cm at the dr’s office last week.

        Reply ↓
  4. Insulindian Phasmid*

    I think LW2 knows that they need to put the idea out of their head, but they ask how, which is always the harder question. How do you actually forget something like that and stop thinking about it? Does anyone have specific advice for that, or is it just something that takes time?

    Reply ↓
    1. nnn*

      I thought the point of AAM’s answer was to reason through it so the OP could see that the board member probably wasn’t saying what OP thought she was saying.

      Reply ↓
      1. Skippy*

        I think the board member was trying to get out of an awkward conversation! What was she supposed to say, “You’re right, you’ll never be able to buy a house on what we pay you”?

        Reply ↓
        1. Skippy*

          It’s probably just best practice to only consider salary conversations meaningful when they take place at work with your supervisor. Otherwise, talk is cheap!

          Reply ↓
        2. Catherine*

          Yeah I’d say it’s 99% likely that’s the situation. Classic “no one is thinking about you as much as you’re thinking about yourself.” Not suggesting the LW is self centered. It’s just way more likely that the board member was just chatting, or thinking about herself and selling houses, than anything to do with LW.

          Reply ↓
          1. BethDH*

            It felt to me like a generic “chin up” — the board member knows the general pattern of when raises happen and that that’s something to look forward to, without having any specific info about OP’s role in that.
            The intensity of OP’s thought on this suggests that this might be an issue OP needs to deal with beyond this interaction. Maybe in therapy, maybe alone or with their partner, to explore either accepting what their life will look like if they never own a house, or figuring out a life change in career or location.
            Maybe I’m reading too much into this but I think OP would be going the wrong direction to handle this by trying to forget about the conversation instead of using it as a prompt to work through their own reaction.

            Reply ↓
            1. Slow Gin Lizz*

              I do think you’re reading into this a little too much. I don’t see anything here that would warrant therapy. I mean, maybe if by “anxious” OP meant they couldn’t stop thinking about it at all and the anxiety is something that really interferes with their life, but if they just meant anxious in the generic sense of the word, then I think it’s perfectly understandable that they might be anxious waiting to see if they are, indeed, getting a promotion.

              OP, I do know where you’re coming from. I worked in nonprofits for seven years and always had very good annual reviews from my supervisors. I spent most of the time at my NPs thinking I’d be getting a raise and/or promotion any day now (like, literally months would go by where I’d think, this’ll be the mtg where my supervisor tells me about my nice big raise), and unfortunately I got a lot of praise but not a lot of raise. In the NP world, I think it’s very common for good workers to get a lot of praise in lieu of decent pay raises – not that I necessarily can fault them for this, because a lot of times the money just isn’t there and the good NPs want to be sure you know they value you. And the board member you spoke to very likely was just trying to keep your hopes up or being polite, not really in a position to know much about any salary increase you might be getting (and if she did know, that really wasn’t the time or place for her to say anything).

              At my first NP, which I was at for four years, I only got a raise and small promotion after about three and a half years and only when I asked about it. At my second NP, I was hoping for a promotion after three years and when they declined to give me one (because politics, not because I wasn’t a good worker) I left and got a job that pays 40% higher than what I was making there. After seven years of making what was basically the same salary, with less and less buying power due to inflation, my finances were pretty rough.

              I would suggest asking your boss for more information about moving to become a team lead. Tell her that you’ve been thinking about it ever since she mentioned it and you would love to hear more about how that would work. And if she doesn’t say anything about salary when she answers, be sure to then ask about it. But as someone who worked in NPs for several years, I’d caution you to get your hopes up about the salary bump being very large. Best of luck!

              Reply ↓
        3. Czhorat*

          I think BOTH parties here were a bit awkward; the board member/realtor bringing up buying a house in idle conversation can feel like a crass attempt to get business out of an employee AND be out of touch with said employees financial reality.

          That said, the response (while it is hard to measure tone via text) struck me as unnecessarily blunt, bordering on combative. I’d have given a vaguer answer to smooth over it, “Not in the plans for me at the moment”, or even “not in the cards now, sadly”. That closes the door without smacking the board member in the face with it.

          Reply ↓
        4. MassMatt*

          “What was she supposed to say”? She was supposed to NOT troll for real estate business with someone driving a 15 year old car they can’t afford to replace.

          Major side-eye to a board member misusing their contact/influence to troll for their own business. And if she DID know something about an upcoming raise, for babbling about it cryptically.

          In other words, she should have kept her big yap shut.

          Reply ↓
          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Agreed, it absolutely is not the board member’s place to say anything to OP about salary, with the exception of “congrats on your raise” after the fact. OP, if for some reason you do find yourself in a position to buy a home, I would suggest you not work with this realtor. Not necessarily because she’s a bad person (she might just be awkward) but because you should probably keep such a big purchase completely separate from work. She may or may not have been actually trolling for OP’s business; I could just as easily see her only asking about a house purchase because that’s what she does and how she makes conversation, not necessarily to drum up business.

            Anyway, she really should have known better.

            Reply ↓
    2. Cmdrshprd*

      “Does anyone have specific advice for that, or is it just something that takes time?”

      I think it’s mostly time, but for me repeating the logical most likely answer, aka Alison’s reasoning helps. Every time you think about a raise repeat board members was just talking as a realtor trying to get everyone into a house.

      Reply ↓
    3. Dr. Rebecca*

      It takes time, but if–as in the case of the OP–the idea wasn’t in their head in the first place, just…let it remain not in your head. You weren’t thinking of NewGoodThing, so whenever NewGoodThing passes through your thoughts, do the mental equivalent of “…yes, well, moving on…”

      Reply ↓
    5. ecnaseener*

      Reframing it in your head and being strict with yourself about the reframing. Every time the thought pops into your head “Jane the board member implied I’ll get a huge raise,” remind yourself “NO, Jane the realtor encouraged me to consider buying a house after whatever paltry raise I get because that’s her job and she doesn’t know my finances.”

      (To put it in DE terms for your username: Discard thought! Do not accept task!)

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah, look, realtors have to adapt that MLM-like “every contact could be a sale!” attitude. For all this realtor knows, you have family money or a wealthy fiance. Her goal is that if you ever do decide to buy, you remember her name and that she would love your business. She is thinking zero percent about a raise for you, any more so than if she asked you to come to her tupperware party and you took that as a sign she knew something about your christmas bonus.

        Reply ↓
      3. Daisy-dog*

        Yeah, in my experience of buying my own house, realtors & mortgage brokers tend to think it’s more reasonable to spend a substantial chunk of your savings & monthly income on a home because they really believe in the investment. So even a $2k annual raise would worth investing in real estate!

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    6. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      I would remind myself that too often, people on the level of board members forget about what is actually affordable for people below them. And knowing that this board member is a real estate agent/broker, I would assume it was entirely about her wanting to get a commission/sell me a house, not about her wanting me to have enough of a salary to buy a house.

      Also just in general, LW, unless the person is literally in charge of your salary like your boss or maybe grandboss, assume they know/care nothing about what you’re making. It’s much more likely they were trying to get out of the conversation without admitting they have no idea what your salary is (even if theoretically they should).

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Even bosses can be pretty careless in conversations around money sometimes. I think most tend to assume, well, you’re still working here, so the salary must be good enough for you. Or they forget the details. I know in my realm, supervisors are always looking at the topline number with all the benefits and everything in their spreadsheets, so they may not realize how dire it is (although obviously they should). Even if they know you want a raise, everyone in their world *wants* a raise, so they’re not always thinking of it as particularly urgent.

        Reply ↓
      2. Alice*

        My manager knows how much I make but says she can’t control whether I get a raise or even a cost of living adjustment.
        My division director doesn’t know how much I make or understand what I do.
        Presumably, somewhere, in the three or four layers in between them, there is a sweet spot where a person who knows at least a little bit about my work, but also has the power to influence my raise? But I have never been able to identify them.

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    7. Frosty*

      If you look up “cognitive distortions” you can find resources that will at least explain different types of ways we think of things that are distorted, incorrect or “wrong”. It’s common for people to ruminate, catastrophize, black/white thinking etc.

      Identifying that you might be having thoughts that aren’t correct is the first step to getting help for them!

      Reply ↓
    8. HR Exec Popping In*

      By repeatedly telling yourself that until you actually get a raise (or the job) nothing is promised or guaranteed. You never know what will happen and things can fall apart. So every single time LW starting thinking about how much it will be, remind yourself that you do not have a raise and it might not happen.

      Reply ↓
      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yes, think of the Sheelzebub principle (so-called because it was coined by Sheelzebub, a commenter on Captain Awkward): if you knew that things would be the same in six months, would you stay at this job/in this relationship? What about a year from now? Five years? Now, I get that OP isn’t asking about whether they should leave the job or anything like that, but it’s still a good principle to keep in mind in the sense that they should just keep thinking of their job and salary as how it is now until they hear otherwise.

        Reply ↓
      2. Insulindian Phasmid*

        So if I can rephrase… it’s less “find a way to stop the thought from appearing” and more “challenge the thought each time it appears until it gives up over time”?

        I’m autistic and quite literal, and I struggle with controlling my thoughts and emotions this way so it’s… maybe sadly a bit of an epiphany to realize people don’t LITERALLY mean they can choose to prevent a thought that easily.

        Reply ↓
        1. Gollumgollum*

          Ooh ooh I know this one.
          I have a sticky brain, it likes to obsess about my thoughts. “But what did that meeeeeean??”
          Brains make thoughts. It’s just one of the things they do. Not every thought is actually something that needs to be pursued.
          The analogy that works for me is kind of gross: my guts make sounds and smells as they work. Most of them can and should be safely ignored. A new one might pop up, and I can analyze it and decide if action is required. But most of the time I can go “it’s just a noise” and ignore it.
          Similarly: your brain will bring this up because it gets a reaction. Treat it like an embarrassing bowel sound – didn’t love that but don’t need to act on it.
          When you stop reacting, your brain will eventually stop bringing it up.
          You don’t need to make a big production of not reacting. You can just look at the thought, go “yep that’s a thought”, and go on with your day. Each time the brain gets less out of the reaction.
          Even thoughts that feel Really Important are just thoughts.

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    9. Hyaline*

      Yeah, this one is probably less of a “I am ruminating and can’t stop” and more of a “with this reality check, you should probably be able to see why this conclusion you have reached is faulty and should be discarded.”

      If LW is still fixating even if they agree with the reality check, that’s kind of another issue entirely, but I don’t see any reason to assume that she would?

      Reply ↓
  5. Procedure Publisher*

    Lw 5, there’s a book titled Yes, I Could Care Less: How to be a Language Snob Without being a jerk. It is a book on English language usage and grammar.

    Reply ↓
    1. WoodswomanWrites*

      As a professional writer, that phrase has bugged me, too. I looked up the book and it sounds interesting and funny. I enjoyed a comparable book, “Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation.”

      These things are all about the Not Being a Jerk part.

      Reply ↓
      1. I take tea*

        I loved Eat, Shoots and Leaves. I’ll check out Yes, I Could Care Less, I might need to read it. I’m often baffled that I care more about proper English than some native speakers. But I’m a language nerd in my own language too.

        Reply ↓
        1. allathian*

          Ditto and ditto. I realized that I had an advantage on my native English classmates when I won a dictation test/spelling bee where we had to spell individual words when I was 12. I got a full score even when I didn’t know what some of the long words meant. Some of my classmates became my friends, and after we returned to Finland we were pen pals for years. Some of them never learned to distinguish between very common homonyms like their, they’re, there and your, you’re, at least not for as long as we kept in touch.

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        2. Performative gumption*

          Brit here – we say ‘couldn’t care less’ and I found the use of American ‘could care less’ jarring and confusing at first and now just a little annoying quirk Americanism that I mentally correct every time I hear it.

          Reply ↓
            1. londonedit*

              It does overwhelmingly seem to happen with American English, though. It’s not a common phrase among British speakers at all. So that’s why we see it as an ‘Americanism’.

              Reply ↓
        3. Happy meal with extra happy*

          Perhaps because “proper” English is, at its core, a silly, classist social construct where the people you think aren’t speaking it are actually speaking a fully proper, grammatically consistent English that just isn’t the “right” one.

          (Yes, I realize we don’t live in a vacuum, and this type of stuff can matter in the real world, but it shouldn’t, so I’m always going to call it out.)

          Reply ↓
          1. Scrimp*

            Right, but in this instance “could” vs “couldn’t” care less is not part of a specific dialect, it’s just incorrect.

            It can sometimes be difficult go distinguish between what is a different dialect vs what is simply wrong, but in this instance “I could care less” simply ain’t proper.

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            1. Happy meal with extra happy*

              Except it is correct. It’s become (has been even?) an acceptable variant of the phrase.

              Reply ↓
              1. amoeba*

                Well, yeah, just one that makes no sense? Like, I’m not a native speaker and I honestly struggle with that when I read that, like… so you care? Like, not too much but a reasonable amount? Huh.

                (Although it’s still better than a French phrase I encountered when I lived in the French-speaking part of my country – “t’inquiète” as a short form for “ne t’inquiète pas”. Which literally translates as “worry!” as short for “don’t worry!”. That one blew my mind!)

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            2. Sloanicota*

              Actually, when see this is as written here, I see why this version has taken over: the shorter words make it more direct while the double-negative “correct” version is not as spicy because you have to flip it around to make sense haha.

              Reply ↓
            3. Hannah Lee*

              “I could care less about your opinion”

              But certainly, you ‘could of’.
              :-D

              That’s my pet peeve, people using could of, instead of could have.

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        4. Normal*

          “I’m often baffled that I care more about proper English than some native speakers.”

          But isn’t this normal? If this is a foreign language to you, you have to pay much more attention how sentences make sense (both your sentences and those of other people).

          Reply ↓
          1. Great Frogs of Literature*

            Yeah, I don’t understand why this is surprising. My education on English grammar stopped at nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs — whereas I was actually taught grammar when studying foreign languages. To this day I can only figure out what things like “pluperfect” are by translating the phrase into Spanish and then trying to figure out what the equivalent is in English (and for all I know it’s a false cognate).

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          2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

            Yep, 100%. By analogy: I take care not to make a mess when I’m visiting a friend’s house. But at home, I can be sloppy if I want.

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          3. Lily Rowan*

            Yes, I remember a Spanish class in high school where a kid who spoke Spanish at home was arguing with the teacher about some point of grammar, saying “but that’s how you’d say it!” It turned out to be something equivalent to “me and her went to the store” — sure, that’s how lots of people would say it, but it’s grammatically incorrect.

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        5. Irish Teacher.*

          The thing is that there is no such thing as “proper English.” Upper-middle class and upper-class UK English are no more “proper” than US English or Hiberno-English or Caribbean English or working class dialects in the UK. There isn’t one “correct” form.

          And honestly, certain variants get accepted as also “proper” and really which ones do and which don’t are mainly about who is valued. Upper-middle class US English often gets accepted as an “acceptable variant” whereas dialects associated with poorer people or minorities are less likely to be.

          My half-joking opinion, looking from Ireland, is that this language was forced upon us under threat of violence or to avoid starvation and so, we’ll speak it however we flippin’ like. (And honestly, I rather like our direct translations and the way they link us with the Irish language even when we are speaking English.)

          I know “could care less” isn’t exactly the same thing but I think there is a problem with prescriptivist English, because it leads to the idea that upper-middle class British and American people speak “more correctly” than the rest of us, when really, their versions of English are just variants too.

          Also, when do you put the cut-off? Do you accept the words and phrases Shakespeare invented as “proper English” even though they didn’t exist before he came up with them? Do you accept “you” as a singular pronoun even though that was once incorrect? Or do we just put the cut-off when we were born and thereby just say people younger than us are incorrect with their changes?

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          1. God and St George*

            The English language is the birthright of the English people. Just as you wouldn’t like it if those in other countries began using Gaelic and twisting it for their purposes, we do not appreciate foreigners ruining our language with monstrosities like ‘could care less’. If you want to speak Irish, speak Irish, but don’t ruin our language out of ancestral spite.

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          2. mysterious and important*

            100% this! Thank you for laying it out.

            I admit it would be hypocritical of me to judge prescriptivists since I was 100% a spelling and grammar snob until college, when I happened to fall in love with linguistics. It was hard for me to let go of the idea that I spoke/wrote “more correctly” than others, since it was such a central part of my identity (which is an issue in itself!), but it just wasn’t possible to learn the actual science of how language works and hold onto those misconceptions.

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    2. Rogue Slime Mold*

      I recommend Rebel with a Clause by Ellen Garvin, about what happens when you live your fantasy about going on the road with a folding table and a sign offering to correct people’s grammar for free.

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    3. Anon Right Now*

      I need to read this. There have been times that I”ve thought, “why yes, I could care less” and then it makes me giggle.

      Reply ↓
  6. CET*

    “Could care less”, is like nails on a chalk board to me. It makes no sense, because logically it means you care a certain amount, but in fact you mean to say you actually don’t care at all. That scone needs to be shoved back into the barn!

    Reply ↓
    1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

      Idioms don’t really have to make sense, though; they get a meaning over and above the words themselves. There’s no joint on a bee that’s really analogous to a knee, cats don’t actually own pajamas, and nobody worries about animal welfare when they hear it’s raining cats and dogs. If it’s annoying having two apparent opposites that actually mean the same thing… well, we’ve managed this far with flammable and inflammable, so what’s different with this one?

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      1. nona*

        +1 – despite the fact that you could take the phrase literally, you don’t need to. But it doesn’t sound at weird as a lot of other idioms, so people think they *do* need to take it literally and then it’s a record-scratch.

        So, I think its because it lacks the context clues that it’s an idiom/expression versus the meaning of the actual words.

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  7. Educational Anonymous*

    OP #3, at the community college I work at this is happening right now. The difference is that it is internal. A much beloved dean has been told his contract will not be renewed come the new fiscal year.He has been here ten years and is one of the best managers ever. However, the relatively new president, formerly in his position years ago, is full of vengeful bitterness. Our union and many of the faculty started a campaign to get him the Administrator of the Year award. And he won it.

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    1. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      Reminds me of a beloved college professor who was denied tenure. Annually, students voted for the “Professor of the Year” award. He won it the year he was denied tenure and AGAIN in his terminal year.

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      1. Cmdrshprd*

        Playing devil’s advocate slightly sometimes people forget that what they deal with may not be everything the person does. Depending on the positions and school, teaching might only be. a small/certain part of their responsibilities, research and bringing in grants, and managing staff can be equally or more important.

        Without knowing the the exact details, a professor could be great teacher/professor but they are terrible at conducting research and publishing or treat staff badly or do not know how to manage them.

        Similar to the dean position above they might be a great manager, but they don’t other aspects well like day budget planning and fiscal admin, or bringing in fundraising dollars as expected.

        So the outward/public facing aspects could be great but they could still have other issues that might not be readily seen by everyone.

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        2. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

          This. And even if they are good at most of it, sometimes there’s one thing that’s so egregious that they simply can’t be promoted/given tenure. A coworker of my spouse went up for tenure, and in the process it was discovered that the coworker had lied about some of their supposed publications they included in their tenure packet, and when asked about it, they admitted to the lie. They kept their job (because their performance was otherwise good), but were denied tenure.

          Anyone on the outside not privy to the info the tenure committee had would think it was unfair, but honestly, the coworker was lucky they kept their job. The committee did not share the info widely because they like the coworker and didn’t want to destroy their career, but you just can’t give tenure to someone in that situation.

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          1. AnonAcademic*

            Yes, tenure is often much more complicated than keeping a good teacher. I knew of a pretty contentious case at a prestigious small college where someone didn’t get tenure in part because he’d gotten a (deserved) reputation as someone who slept around with the undergrads. His classes were very popular/his lectures were very engaging, and his research was fine, but not so amazing that there wasn’t room for denial.

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        3. Karo*

          That’s what always gets me when I see petitions like what’s going on with OP3. If you’ve ever had a coworker who does next to no work but talks a good game or weasels their way into the meetings where the work is presented so they can take credit, you can see pretty quickly where your “thank god they’re gone” is someone else’s “wow I can’t believe they were laid off, they did such good work.”

          I know nothing about the Barbie situation – maybe Bill is genuinely amazing at his job and the outrage is totally justified – but is there a chance the inverse is true?

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          1. Skytext*

            Yes, or he could be a sexist jerk who sexually harassed coworkers, or a lot of other reasons they wanted him gone, but were too cowardly or lazy to go through the formal firing process. We see it in letters here all the time. But the layoffs have them a quick and easy way to get rid of the guy.

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  8. LoV...*

    For “could care less,” I occasionally ask the person, “How much less could you care?” Usually it gets a laugh. But yeah, the ship has sailed on that one.

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        2. Esmae*

          I’m absolutely about to start saying “I could care fewer” just to see what shade of red people’s faces turn.

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      2. Adam*

        My pet peeve is people who incorrectly correct less to fewer. Less has been consistently used with count nouns in English for more than 1000 years! It’s perfectly valid! The “prohibition” against it is just from a guy who said he liked the sound of fewer better. It is not and has never been a rule of English.

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        1. Fire Engine Flick*

          Overcorrections are the worst! The one that gets me is people thinking they should say “I” rather than “me” – as in “Please talk to Dave or I if you have any questions”. It feels so clumsy.

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          1. Elsa*

            Even worse than that is people thinking they should say “myself” rather than “me”, as in “Please talk to Dave or myself if you have any questions.” I hear this often from people who should know better.

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            1. pumpkinn*

              If you’ve seen the traitors, this drives me mad. They all try to sound extra posh and formal so say things like “I’m voting for yourself, John”

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          2. amoeba*

            Goooood, that one’s a real pet peeve of mine. Maybe because I come from a language where we decline basically everything to death. But “For Dave and I” just sounds so, so wrong for me.
            And it’s really not that hard to distinguish – if you can replace it with “we”, it’s “Dave and I”. If it would need to be “us”, it’s “Dave and me”. Done!

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            1. Emmy Noether*

              The even simpler test (as in don’t even need to remember which is we and which is us) is to just think about what it would be if Dave wasn’t in it at all. “Talk to me” -> “Talk to Dave or me”. “I wrote that” -> “Dave and I wrote that”.

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        2. bamcheeks*

          Less vs fewer always makes me think of my brother, aged 15, saying, “Yeah, but there’s less w*nkers here. Whoops, sorry Dad, FEWER w*nkers.” My dad had no idea whether to be proud or not.

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          1. TGIF*

            It’s times like this that I realize english is a crazy language. American Sign Language is so much easier in a way, they use far less words to say the same thing, and of course use space to position people/objects and can sign between them as well.

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    2. JustaTech*

      I can’t believe I’ve gotten this far into the comments and no one has mentioned Weird Al’s fantastic song on the subject: Word Crimes!
      “I could care less” is called out specifically!

      (Also “less” vs “fewer”, “doing good” vs “doing well”.)
      Honestly, I’ve found the music video to be helpful to get some grammar rules to stick in my head.

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  9. NerdyLibraryClerk*

    I wish there were rules about temperature in work places. It has to be over 90 for three hours before where I work will close. (Though I suspect it would actually have to close due to lack of staff before that, considering that people have been going home when it’s 80-82.)

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    1. BellStell*

      Where I work in Europe the temps have to be above 29c or 85f to be sent home. We also do not have much air con here and not in my office at all just a heat exchange system that sort of works. I once had a boss 16 years ago here who came in with wash cloths and fans for staff to use on necks and faces. No, we were not amused and many went home.

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      1. ChurchOfDietCoke*

        There’s no legal upper limit in the UK. Although there is a lower one – it must be above 16C in most offices.

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        1. Brrrrr*

          My boss wouldn’t close our library when it was 40f (5c) when the heat went out. I sat at the front desk by the door fully bundled with my parka hood up. Glad you have a lower limit.

          I always wondered what would have happened if I just walked out.

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    3. JustaTech*

      I think it at least partly depends on what happens in your workplace.
      Like, I work in biological products manufacturing, and if our production building was 90F it would be an actual disaster, as our product does not deal well with high (or low) temperatures. Then again, in that building we have a *large* team dedicated to keeping the temperature and humidity in a very narrow range.

      I’m pretty sure I remember the chocolate shop I worked for in high school closing the time the A/C went out in the mall and everything started melting.

      But both of those cases are about the product and not staff comfort/safety.

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  10. Dizzy*

    I just normally mentally add a ‘but not MUCH less’ when I hear it and continue on with my day. After all, they at least cared enough to make the comment.

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    1. Slinky*

      This reminds me of the “alot” from Hyperbole and a Half. Basically, she invented a fantasy creature called an “alot,” so that anytime someone wrote “I care about this alot,” she would imagine them hugging the creature.

      Link to follow.

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  11. Zanshin*

    Re “I could care less”… writing as a New York Jew, in that culture it’s common to express sarcasm this way, and it’s connotation is crystal clear.

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    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      You know, I never thought to process that “mistake” as sarcasm, and it makes so much sense now that you’ve pointed that out…

      Well played.

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    2. gyrfalcon17*

      As someone from the New York City area, THANK YOU for saying this. And I don’t think it’s just Jewish culture; my sense has always been it’s a common NY expression.

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      1. Emily Byrd Starr*

        It’s also common among Jews not from New York, particularly Ashkenazi Jews. Interestingly, Israelis are known for being very direct and speaking in a way that leaves no doubt as to what they mean (so no sarcasm).

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    4. Silver Robin*

      yes, this! thank you! I usually say “couldn’t” but the mistake never bothered me because it always read as sarcastic.

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  12. just some guy*

    #5: “Could care less” seems to be much more widely adopted in the USA than other English-speaking countries, at least those I’m familiar with. Certainly in Australia “couldn’t care less” is the normal version, and “could care less” would likely be seen as an error or, perhaps worse, an Americanism.

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    2. Sun*

      “Could care less” is definitely an Americanism. I’ve never heard it used interchangeably with “couldn’t care less” in my life outside of occasional interactions with Americans online. Thank goodness because it would really peeve me!

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    3. ReallyBadPerson*

      Haha, this American “corrects” people with “Exactly how much less could you care?” I had no idea “I could care less” was an accepted usage.

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    4. NZReb*

      yeah, ditto in New Zealand. I never hear people say “could care less”.

      An American friend of mine once deeply offended a Kiwi by saying “that’s too bad” in response to the Kiwi’s very bad news. Here, that’s another way of saying “I couldn’t care less”. Language, it’s full of traps.

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      1. bestbet*

        In the US? I don’t think that’s true. It might be regional, or class based, but where I grew up I almost never heard “I couldn’t care less.” Could care less was the default.

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        1. mysterious and important*

          More evidence for it being regional (or at least not universal): I had never heard “could care less” until my 10th grade English teacher pointed it out as one of her pet peeves. I guess it must have been somewhat in use in my region if she’d heard it enough to be irritated by it, but I was super confused, because who the heck was going around saying “could care less?” I had only heard “couldn’t”.

          I don’t think it was a matter of just tuning it out either, because even after she pointed it out, I STILL didn’t hear anyone say “could care less” until college.

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  13. Thepuppiesareok*

    OP1 it really sounds like it was about what you feared would happen. I’ve had to work when the AC went out. But management acknowledged the situation, was on-site and experiencing the same temps, brought in all available fans to help, told us to leave our desk occasionally (we had to coordinate so we didn’t lack coverage), get some air in the hallway (where they were able to put really strong fans to create a breeze), and our team leaders kept passing out water bottles so we stayed hydrated. A very different experience than you had. We couldn’t leave because we were tech support for a medical company. We leave and the people in the field who were needing to visit patients (yes this still happens) couldn’t see those patients. Which, for health and safety reasons, would be illegal in some cases. My management handled it the best they could and had it fixed the next day. I’d be talking to your manager about those two instances and asking they come up with a plan, then clearly communicate that plan to staff if something like this happens again.

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      1. allathian*

        Oof yes. I felt really sorry for all the nurses and doctors in hazmat suits during the worst of the pandemic in summer 2020 when we had a heatwave.

        They were exempt from our general requirements of cooling down every hour because just putting on the PPE takes, what, 30 minutes?

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      2. Performative gumption*

        Spent many years working in a UK hospital. Old building, gets hot esp in summer. We eventually got AC for the drugs room at my insistence as temps were going above 25 degrees C and some of stored meds were licensed only up to 25 degrees.
        On hot days a lot of people were suddenly keen to be the ones to run to the room to get any medications required.

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        1. Bird names*

          During one of the more intense heatwaves of the last decade I actually checked with a pharmacy since I couldn’t find any spots below 25 degrees C at home for common OTC meds I keep around.
          Apparently the issue was still being discussed and no clear guidelines for private use in place. I’m certainly glad you put your foot down at work since I suspect with the variety of meds you have to have on hand some of them react more quickly once the upper temperature is exceeded.

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        2. Nightengale*

          maybe I should move across the pond. In US hospitals I regularly kept myself warm with heated blankets. When I worked in an ICU that banned long sleeves for infection control, my teeth were chattering during rounds and I was shivering.

          Thankfully now I work in an outpatient medical building which isn’t quite as cold. I do OK in the summer if I wear long sleeves, knee socks, a sweater and keep a space heater running. Except for my nose and ears which are still cold.

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    2. 2cents*

      I definitely think having responsive management makes all the difference here. When you know (like the LW) that your manager doesn’t think having a working bathroom is a problem it colors your thinking about how they’re going to handle other issues like HVAC repairs. I’ve definitely worked or lived places where threats were the only way to ensure that repairs were made in a timely fashion because nothing else got the attention of management.

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      1. Relentlessly Socratic*

        This deserves to be elevated–We don’t know about the OP’s job or a bunch of other stuff about their own body and how it reacts to temperature (I am absolutely non-functional in the heat, myself).

        The boss and the facilities team were non-responsive for backed-up sewage. Yikes on bikes! I think that it’s perfectly understandable that OP and her colleagues would not be thrilled with how work addresses these types of issues.

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  14. Lily*

    I’d be interested to hear what others think about the tone of LW1’s text to their boss. I agree with Alison that it’s hard to assess this situation without knowing the actual temperature and whether LW1 was actually in an unsafe working environment etc. But something about LW1’s message just sits awkwardly with me – it just feels a bit rude and presumptuous as a way to address your manager (might be a cross cultural thing as I’m not American) even though I’m 100% in favour of firm, clear boundaries etc etc. Something more like ‘Unfortunately it has gotten hotter, and I’m really uncomfortable. Can you confirm help is likely to arrive soon? If not, can I end my shift early?” would seem more appropriate. Following up with a phone call if there’s no response/confirmation. And if the phone call goes unanswered, and it’s been a reasonable amount of time something like ‘I haven’t heard from you and I’m really uncomfortable so I’m going to finish up early. I have done x,y and z (insert whatever is needed to responsibly finish up).
    Asking seems more appropriate than than just announcing that you’re not coming back from lunch (even if you’re not really asking but kinda just phrasing it as a question)

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    3. WS*

      If this was the first time something had gone wrong and not been fixed I think it would be too much, but considering that this boss apparently thinks having a toilet is not a priority, I can see why LW1 jumped to self-protection. Also, the boss answering “If you leave others will follow” is a really weird thing to say instead something like of “I am talking to facilities and will get back to you by [time]. I can’t say what else is going on in this workplace, but it sounds like *something* is.

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      1. Insert Clever Name Here*

        Yeah, part of me wonders if the reason a technician came so quickly was because OP said they’d be leaving after lunch!

        As far as the actual tone of the message, it reads more “I have a comfortable and familiar relationship with my boss” than “rude” to me.

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    4. Rogue Slime Mold*

      I am unclear on what OP’s job involving air conditioning means: Do the samples start to melt at 88°? Or is it a question of comfort?

      The boss explaining that OP saying “This is the line; I’m out” would start a mass exodus suggests that the problems run deep.

      Reply ↓
      1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        I’m thinking it’s more about comfort. And some people really cannot tolerate heat well. Once my office was almost 90 degrees. I was lucky that I had to go to another building for a few hours, so I let my boss know (who was not on site) and she apologized and it was fixed immediately.

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    5. HonorBox*

      I think asking would have been more appropriate. But I think there’s a little more context that gives the LW a little more flexibility. First, they (and presumably boss does too) have knowledge that nothing was done when the restrooms weren’t working. Second, boss said to let them know if it got hotter. They did, and provided an out before the threat to leave. LW said to let them know if help was on the way. Maybe it was, or maybe it was that threat that actually got the ball rolling. It seems like there’s context for being a little more direct because a coworker was put in a position to have to work in a building with no working restrooms and sewage backing up, and there was nothing done because it was a Saturday.

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    6. ecnaseener*

      Your suggested phrasing feels a little overly formal to me (US), so some of it might be cultural. Assuming this is LW’s direct boss who they see all the time and have a decent rapport with, I think their phrasing was normal, not rude at all.

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    7. Hyaline*

      Yes, it feels presumptuous and the boss’s reaction to the situation may be a lot more about the communication than the situation itself (and LW should probably do a gut check on their communication in general if they feel this was a great example of professional communication). It’s typically not fantastic form to bluntly inform management what you’re doing, but to either ask or propose a plan. There are exceptions to this, such as when there’s a threat of danger or management has been exploitative and you’re drawing a line, but TBH when I read “air conditioning out” I’m reading probable less-than-ideal but not dangerous situation unless it’s explicitly spelled out–and if that was the case, LW would have been well served to spell that out: “It’s almost 95 in here, there’s no air circulation, and many of us are feeling unwell.”

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    8. umami*

      Yeah, it was the tone that I found concerning. Just … telling boss that they aren’t coming back unless boss can tell them they are working on it is a bit cavalier. I don’t doubt that the person felt uncomfortable, but there is a better way to get what you want, using any of the wording you suggested.

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    9. bamcheeks*

      But if someone was starting to feel ill, the usually expectation would be that they’d tell their manager they were going home, not ask for permission. “I’m getting a migraine, so I’m going to head home after lunch” or “My cold’s getting worse and I can’t really think, so I’m going home after lunch, hope that’s OK” would both sound perfectly reasonable to me. Similarly, if LW was starting to feel nauseous or lightheaded from the heat, it would be weird to ask permission rather than state that they were leaving.

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      1. MaxPower*

        Asking for permission to leave due to illness is very much the expectations of many workplaces, particularly those in fields that employ hourly staff and/or have coverage needs. Deciding on one’s own that you are leaving and informing the boss is a privilege of work that tends to be white collar/management/office.
        Telling the boss and leaving would be a disciplinary offense in many workplaces.

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        1. Zombeyonce*

          We don’t know which kind of work the LW does, so it could be a completely normal expectation to say they’re leaving rather than asking for permission.

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      2. Hyaline*

        I don’t disagree, but if LW was feeling ill from the heat, she really needed to say so–because I think it’s fair to read “hey the a/c is out” as “there is an inconvenience that is beginning to border on distracting or uncomfortable” unless someone says “hey, the a/c is out and it’s getting so hot in here that I’m starting to get a bad headache” or “hey, the a/c is out, and just to clear this ahead of time, I’m really heat sensitive and if it gets much warmer in here I’m going to feel ill. If we can’t resolve this by noon or five more degrees, whichever comes first, I’m probably going to need to leave.”

        And even then, the phrasing you gave is polite and deferential, not “do something or I’m out” which is…not a great way to approach the boss IMO.

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    10. Karo*

      It’s really situation-dependent. I live in South Carolina; last Thursday our high temp was 87 degrees F (30.55 C), and it was humid as hell. If our AC goes out we can start getting to a point of being physically ill.

      And if I’m physically ill — just like if I have the flu — I’m not asking my boss for permission to go home. I’m telling them that I’m leaving and providing details on where my work stands if I deem it necessary or they ask.

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  15. Hot at Work*

    In California OSHA indoor heat regulations kick in above 82 degrees. I looked it up once when our air went out and it was reaching high 80s. They brought in portable air conditioners.

    Reply ↓
    1. ElliottRook*

      I think I would hate so much about life in California but gosh darn it, they’re really on the ball with worker protections, sometimes I wonder if it would be worth it.

      Reply ↓
    2. amoeba*

      Yeah, that would sound more reasonable than the recommended ranges mentioned in the reply – although it would still mean the temperature at the time of messaging was 77 F/25 °C, so… still not very hot! Waiting until temp reached 82 to send people home makes total sense to me…

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    3. Emmet Dash*

      Huh. That’s news to me. I worked in an academic office building with no AC and poor heat and we just had to deal with it.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hawk*

      Same in Maryland, or at least the county I work in/for. We’ve had issues on and off with my building heating and cooling (heat “fixed” (partly turned off)) since January in my building. My workplace’s policy is that you either have to take leave or work at another location.

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  16. tommy*

    I’m confused about what LW1 means by, “my job involves air conditioning!”

    Is there any possibility the work itself is AC-dependent or AC-influenced, even at all? I don’t really think so, because I think that would have been made more explicit… but that sentence puzzles me.

    Reply ↓
    1. Thomas*

      I assume that means the role or company involves selling, maintaining, or otherwise working with aircon. So such a company not having working aircon in their own office is a case of “the cobbler’s children have no shoes”, and will understandably annoy the employees.

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      1. Myrin*

        I feel like that, too, would’ve been made more explicit in the letter, though. Given the context/the rest of the letter, I think it’s just OP’s way of saying “I need aircon to be in a temperature where I can comfortably work” but if that’s the case, it is written in a rather puzzling way where I can understand people thinking OP works with aircons in some capacity.

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      2. HR Exec Popping In*

        I read it as the LW expects AC and considers it a term of employment or right to AC in the workplace, but other’s interpretation makes more sense.

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    2. Roy G. Biv*

      My first thought was working with electronics in a process where heat and humidity control are vital, (so AC is necessary) but one would think the supervisor would have been all over it in that case.

      Reply ↓
      1. JustaTech*

        Or working with pharmaceuticals or biologics that are *very* picky about temperature. Or food! Or cosmetics. Or candles, or art supplies, or basically anything that can melt.
        But those are all manufacturing or retail where the issue is product loss, and not staff comfort or safety.

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  17. SheriffFatman*

    Unpopular opinion: “could care less” is an idiom and as such doesn’t have to make logical sense.

    And I say this as a British person who would rather be dead in a ditch than say “I could care less”, because it’s an American idiom, not a British one. We have plenty of our own nonsensical idioms, thank you. (My grandmother used to say “It’s looking dark out towards Will’s mother” when bad weather threatened. Thanks, Gran, but what?)

    If it helps anyone, there is evidence that the original form was “I know nothing about [X] and could care less”, which makes more sense (inasmuch as one can care less than nothing).

    Reply ↓
    1. bamcheeks*

      “It’s black over Bill’s mother” is a pretty normal saying in Notts, but I’ve never heard that version! I wonder if that’s common or just your grandma playing with the usual phrase?

      Reply ↓
      1. SheriffFatman*

        She was from a fair bit further south than Notts, so it could be regional variation. Or I could be misremembering.

        Reply ↓
    2. Varthema*

      ooooooooohhhhhh that explanation makes SO MUCH SENSE. I always assumed it was the n’t which gets a bit swallowed and just fell off, but as an abbreviated expression it bothers me less now. Kind of like saying “the grass is greener” or “when in Rome.”

      Reply ↓
    3. Irish Teacher.*

      I agree. It personally seems weird to me because it’s not something we’ve used in Ireland and until I heard it discussed online, I assumed it was a typo the odd couple of times I saw it online and it…does seem to me to miss the point of the expression

      But then a lot of language has changed to the point that it misses the point of the original expressions and that one just sounds weird to me because the original is still in use. And I generally try to avoid pushing “correct” versions of language both because all language is made-up anyway and because the versions of English considered correct are often those associated with the middle class and with more powerful English speaking countries like England or America. People from working class or minority backgrounds or those from less wealthy or powerful countries are more likely to have their dialects deemed “incorrect.”

      Reply ↓
    4. katydid*

      I agree. In the Boston area there’s a construction where many folks say “So don’t I” to mean they also do (as in, “I love basketball,” “Yeah, so don’t I!”). Obviously this doesn’t make logical sense, but it’s dialect. In southern Appalachia, “whenever” means “when”– as in, you use it for something that happened just once (“whenever we went to Disney when I was six”), not just for things that happened or will happen repeatedly (“whenever we would go to Disney”) or may happen at some point (“whenever I get those tickets”). It’s just language being language.

      Reply ↓
      1. Retiring Academic*

        The Appalachian example may well be influenced by Scots. ‘I saw him whenever I went into the room’ = ‘I saw him as soon as I went into the room (on one occasion)’, not ‘I went into the room several times and I saw him each time’.

        Reply ↓
      2. dbc*

        Could be, but I’ve heard some content creators using the “whenever” construction, and to my ears it’s still fingernails on a scone platter.

        Reply ↓
    5. dbc*

      Ah, that does make a different kind of sense. I noticed a construction in the midwest where parts of idioms got dropped. West coast (regarding kids that were affectionately indulged): “they’re spoiled rotten”. Midwest: “they’re rotten”. Which to my coastal ear sounded more like juvenile delinquents.
      Then there was, “he could eat crackers”, with the “…in my bed ” understood but dropped.

      Reply ↓
  18. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

    What about the phrases Lucked out and Lucked in- I always saw them as opposites (I lucked in meaning I was lucky, vs I lucked out meaning I was unlucky) but they seemed to have melded into just meaning lucky.
    Eg today I read “I really lucked out in the husband department, he’s fabulous” – and as usual my reading came to a screeching halt.

    Reply ↓
    1. linger*

      Maybe I’ve just been unlucky, but I haven’t ever heard “I lucked in”, only “my luck was in”/”I was in luck”. I have heard “lucked out” used for both meanings, with roughly equal frequency, so it seems “I lucked out” now implies only “My outcome had a high chance component”, with context alone establishing whether that chance component is to be regarded as “good” luck (“my [good] luck *came* out”) or “bad” luck (“my [good] luck *ran* out”).

      Reply ↓
      1. Emmet Dash*

        I’ve never heard “lucked in” but I’ve heard “lucked into,” as in “I lucked into some concert tickets when a friend gave me theirs.”

        Reply ↓
    2. Varthema*

      “Lucked out” always feels like “lucked out of trouble”. And then eventually when “trouble” dropped out people started using it even more widely (like in your husband example). But phrasal verbs (idioms formed from verbs + prepositions) rarely make sense! think about “look something UP”, “look AFTER something” “catch UP” “etc.

      Reply ↓
    3. ElliottRook*

      I had a much longer answer typed but then I looked to see if anyone had explained/sourced this, and apparently in British/Australian English, “I lucked out” means had bad luck, but in American English “lucked in” and “lucked out” BOTH mean had good luck!

      As an American, I have only ever heard the phrase “lucked out” exactly like in the husband example you gave…but if someone says “I’m out of luck,” then it means out of chances/bad luck. This whole thing is really amusing to me! Logically they absolutely should be opposites, but I never gave it a second thought!

      And now I’ve hit semantic satiation for the word lucked, haha.

      Reply ↓
      1. londonedit*

        As a British English speaker, ‘lucked out’ strikes me as a very American term, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard ‘lucked in’. But I also don’t think I’ve ever heard ‘lucked out’ meaning ‘I was unlucky’! You might say ‘my luck ran out’, but not ‘I lucked out’. The only use I’m familiar with is to mean ‘I really had some great luck there’, but that still sounds American to my ears.

        Reply ↓
        1. Emily Byrd Starr*

          I’m American, and I’ve always understood “I lucked out” to mean “I was lucky.” I think of it as similar to “I figured out the answer” or “I straightened out the mistake,” where “out” does not necessarily mean a direction, but just a meaningless preposition tacked to the end of a phrase (shrugs).

          Reply ↓
    4. JK*

      Interesting, I have heard people use “lucked out”, as in “we really lucked out with the weather today” when it rained every other day but today is our picnic. I have used “lucked in” but thought I was just making up a phrase to describe how I came by something: “we just lucked in to this apartment”.

      Reply ↓
      1. MCT*

        Speaking from a U.S. perspective:

        I commonly hear people the expression “lucked out” to mean” I was lucky”.

        I rarely if ever hear people use the expression “lucked out” to mean “I was unlucky” – I would probably understand from context, but this would sound strange to me.

        I rarely if ever hear people use the expression “lucked in” at all. I do hear “lucked into [something]”, but not just “lucked in”.

        Reply ↓
        1. Phony Genius*

          I wonder if it comes from the draft years. If you weren’t selected in the draft to go to Vietnam, you “lucked out” of it.

          Reply ↓
          1. YetAnotherAnalys*

            It predates the Vietnam War, though of course so does the draft. But we have a lot of phrases that use “out” in the sense of “completely” or “finally” (deck out, fit out, pan out, wear out, die out, try out, etc).

            Reply ↓
        2. Jay (no, the other one)*

          To me, “lucked out” has the specific meaning “escaped something” as in the weather comment about. “Everything else was delayed, but I lucked out and our flight left on time.”

          Reply ↓
      2. Great Frogs of Literature*

        I (American) have only heard something like your weather example when used with a touch of sarcasm, and I don’t think I’m used to hearing “lucked in” much at all. It wouldn’t be wildly weird to me to hear “lucked out” for bad luck, though.

        Reply ↓
    5. YetAnotherAnalyst*

      I don’t think I’ve ever heard “lucked in”! For me, there’s a bunch of phrases that end with “out” that imply “this was the final outcome” – pan out, bail out, win out, wash out, shake out – so “I lucked out!” is understood as “the final outcome was better for me than expected”.

      Reply ↓
    6. My Outie Hoards Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs*

      I’ve never heard anyone say “lucked in” before, and “lucked out” means lucky in my experience.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hannah Lee*

        I’ve never heard ‘lucked in’ but have heard ‘lucked into’ like the commenter above.
        ‘lucked out’ is the version I’ve always heard and used, only to mean something good.

        (I’m in the Northeast US)

        Reply ↓
    7. Silver Robin*

      yeah but we see these opposite pairs in a few places. off the top of my head: are you down to hang out? are you up for hanging out? slightly different connotations but still “are you available/willing to spend time together” is the question.

      Reply ↓
    8. The Petson from the Resume*

      Hmmmm …

      I’ve heard/used “lucked out” to mean got lucky.

      I’ve never heard “lucked in.”

      Reply ↓
  19. ElliottRook*

    The A/C broke at my first office job and it got to be 80 inside, on a day I had worn a tank top and a zip-front sweater. (Normally the office was on the cool side, just where I like it.) They would not allow me to break dress code and wear just the tank top, they would not shut the office down until the A/C was fixed, and they would not allow me to drive home and change clothes–the building was very secure and no one was ever allowed to stay past 5pm, we all marched out together at the end of the day, so there was no possible way to make up the 20-ish minutes that likely would’ve taken. (I think I did end up taking the tank top off, but the sweater alone would’ve been too warm at 70, much less 80.)

    Then they were pissed that I got sick from overheating and had to call out! My boss asked “don’t you go outside when it’s 80?” and the whole office seemed astonished when I said that no, when it gets above roughly 70 I’m only ever outside long enough to go between buildings and cars.

    In retrospect, my grandboss was an absolutely insane micromanager and I could probably write a dozen letters about things that happened while I worked there, and the attendance policies were formulated for robots, not humans. With the A/C problem I probably should’ve brought up OSHA guidelines, but I didn’t realize that at 22.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sunny*

      You don’t go outside when it’s over 70? I’m in Canada and that would still be most of our summers!

      Reply ↓
      1. ElliottRook*

        To be clear, I leave the house, I just don’t stay outside, I go to other places that are also air-conditioned. I can be persuaded to a movie or a mall or an indoor concert, but I’ll wait until after dark/cooling off time to even, say, take trash to the dumpster or get the mail out of the mailbox.

        I’m not outdoorsy at any time of year, but I can be persuaded to go outside around spooky season for stuff like corn mazes and hayrides, festivals, etc–once the bugs are dead, I need a coat/hoodie, and the daylight isn’t so blinding. In ~two weeks we’re planning to go to a tourist-y farm to see baby animals, and after that I probably won’t be spending any real time outside until September-ish.

        Reply ↓
    2. ecnaseener*

      Okay, I would be astonished too! Not mad at you, but astonished. I hope you live in a nice cold climate!

      Reply ↓
      1. ElliottRook*

        I live in a part of Utah where there are three truly miserable months a year for me, but it’s offset by multiple feet of snow for a different three months. ;) Where I lived when I had that job, it was more like 6-8 weeks of miserable weather–and either way, I’m a night owl by nature, very inclined to plan my social life after sunset!

        Reply ↓
  20. pcake*

    LW3 – I can’t believe that Mattel would lay off Bill Greening! He’s designed some of the best face sculpts of these times, and because Mattel choose to list the names of the sculptors, adult Barbie collectors are very aware of who he is. I gather they laid off 120 people total with this round, and it’s really a shame. Was it in advance of tariffs affecting their business? We don’t know, but Mattel’s employees are loyal, while not highly paid, and some of my favorite new face sculpts are from Mr. Greening. This was very sad to read, and it does affect how I feel about Mattel.

    Reply ↓
    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      You never know what all is involved with these decisions. While he might be a brilliant designer he could be a horrible employee. Another option is sometimes companies that are doing layoffs ask employees if they are interested in volunteering for separation to get severance. Often longer term close to retirement employees may elect to do this and are still considered “let go” as part of the staff reduction.

      Reply ↓
  21. Happy meal with extra happy*

    Comment threads like these always make me side eye the number of commenters who absolutely love talking about how so grammatically and linguistically superior they are and how they so look down on others whose prose isn’t as “perfect” as theirs.

    Reply ↓
    3. TeaMonk*

      Yea I use words to communicate and don’t intentionally misunderstand stuff just to misunderstand. It doesn’t grate as much as ” I’m X years old so I can never learn any new words and am shocked that the language changes ” or ” labeling AAVE as gen z slang “but we all know good and well what people mean and if we don’t we can ask.

      Reply ↓
    4. sure*

      It almost makes me side eye the letter being answered in the first place – I guessed what the comments were going to be like, and I was correct!

      Reply ↓
  22. Benihana scene stealer*

    I’m going to zag and say “could” care less is completely fine. It means I could care less, but I don’t, therefore I don’t care at all!

    Reply ↓
    1. len*

      I have no dog in this pedantry fight but I really cannot follow your logic here. How does your “therefore” result from what preceded it in any way?? What am I missing?

      Reply ↓
      1. Benihana scene stealer*

        Dogs fighting is violent and unpleasant. Can we say “I have no scones on this plate” instead?

        I don’t think you’re missing anything – it’s just that everyone knows what is meant by either could or couldn’t, so logic doesn’t apply

        Reply ↓
      2. sure*

        The point is that someone saying “I could care less” in the way Benihana is describing is probably saying it sarcastically.

        Reply ↓
    1. Matt*

      In my understanding as I learned English as a foreign language, it’s indeed “less”. “Few” / “fewer” is anything you can count, the opposite of “many”, while “little” / “less” is anything you can’t count, the opposite of “much”. (It’s one of the few (;-) instances where English is trickier than German – we only have “viel” (many/much) or “wenig” (few/little))

      Reply ↓
      1. amoeba*

        I’m pretty sure that was a joke because the less/fewer issue is also one people get hung up about.

        Reply ↓
      2. Myrin*

        I concur with amoeba but also, your last point isn’t actually true – we have “viel” and “vielE”, and “viel” directly corresponds to “much” whereas “viele” means the same as “many”.
        I have no idea why both textbooks and English teachers always used this cumbersome method of “one is countable, the other isn’t” when trying to explain the difference between “much” and “many” when the difference is right there in German, too! People, especially the sixth-graders this gets taught to, don’t realise it because it’s only a one letter difference (the same way Germans have a much harder time identifying adverbs because there isn’t a handy “-ly” suffix even though you can actually tell from the word form in German as well) but I reckon it would actually be much easier to tell students to ask themselves if they’d use “viel” or “viele” instead of “can you count the thing?”, which is always incomprehensible to half the class for some reason.

        Reply ↓
      3. supply closet badger*

        Fun fact: in Danish they also have a countable equivalent to “more” (as in, the word ‘more’ translates to ‘mere’ for uncountable things but to ‘flere’ for countable things). This trips me up a bit as an English speaker, but it has a kind of satisfying consistency to it :D

        Reply ↓
    3. Hyaline*

      lol no but I love the intersecting trails of grammar pet peeves. (Care being a non-countable noun that exists in generalized amounts or qualities, not measurable units)

      Reply ↓
    5. Zombeyonce*

      I know this is probably a joke, but my understanding is that “fewer” is for when referring to something you can count (“I want fewer grapes”) while “less” is for things that can’t be identified with exact numbers (“I want less soup”).

      Reply ↓
  24. Benihana scene stealer*

    Wouldn’t the fact that #4’s husband has worked there succesfully and happily for 13 years be a potential benefit to their candidacy? I wouldn’t hide it at all – I’d absolutely mention it, or have your husband forward your resume, etc..

    Reply ↓
    1. Dr. Rebecca*

      Because they’re applying for an HR position, they may need to view sensitive information* about their husband, and/or participate in disciplinary actions, both of which are conflicts of interest. That’s why Alison made the distinction.

      *Yes, as a spouse, they probably already know a lot, if not all, of this info–that really doesn’t matter in terms of who gets access from the business’s perspective.

      Reply ↓
      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        Agreed, but it depends on what the HR role is and how big the company is. Many jobs in HR can be done by individuals related to other employees so long as they don’t support the specific group their relative is in.

        Reply ↓
        1. Guacamole Bob*

          Yeah, you could be onboarding new employees, creating training curriculum, doing executive coaching, serving as an in-house recruiter for a team your spouse doesn’t work on, working in labor relations for a union your spouse isn’t in, being one of multiple people administering FMLA or worker’s comp or the retirement plan and recuse yourself if your spouse has an issue to be resolved, contracting with the health insurance plan, etc. People think “HR” and think of resolving employee complaints and conflicts, but in a large organization there are lots of roles where it wouldn’t be an issue to have a spouse working there.

          Reply ↓
    2. A*

      It depends on how deep the candidacy pool is.

      If there are a lot of equal options, many people would pick somebody who is not the spouse of somebody who works there. Some people don’t like to work with couples if there is a way to avoid it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Guacamole Bob*

        I think this is a size-of-company thing. My agency has 13,000 employees, and it’s not that unusual for there to be family members scattered about, especially in our blue collar front line positions. It’s entirely possible to work in HR and never have anything to do with the department that a family member or spouse works in. Family connections can be seen as a sign of support for the mission of the agency and a desire to stick around, though they don’t give anyone a real leg up.

        If it were a company of 200 people, I’d absolutely prefer not to hire someone’s spouse given good alternatives.

        Reply ↓
    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      To me, it depends on whether this role is supposed to be HR for husband’s team in particular.

      Reply ↓
      1. Benihana scene stealer*

        It says the position is completely unrelated to the husband’s and isn’t even in the same building, so i think it’s ok from that angle

        Reply ↓
    4. MassMatt*

      It might, and the fact that this company has a heavy presence in their area might mean spouses working at the same company is not an issue.

      I would take off the home address from the resume, though. IMO there’s no good reason to have it there and it increases the chance of stalking–who know how many people are going to see this document?

      Reply ↓
  25. el l*

    OP2, what is more likely?

    That you are about to get a life changing amount of money without so much as changing (nonprofit) employers.

    Or, she doesn’t remember/know your financial situation at all, and this is her canned answer for the 10x/month she hears from clients “I can’t afford this house.”

    Reply ↓
  26. Texas Teacher*

    Humidity differences make the temps question hard to judge as well.
    That said, my community is very used to using air conditioning everywhere, including in sports venues for sports played outdoors. We have lost a lot of tolerance for temperature variation. Nowadays, students at my school are not allowed to have outdoor recess if it’s 90F or above, and they don’t take them outside below 50 either! I’d take 90 degrees outside over 80 in my classroom any day, I think hot outside temps feel more tolerable than inside ones.

    Reply ↓
    1. ReallyBadPerson*

      I lived in Texas for three years. Indoor spaces in the summer felt like a New England winter to me.

      Reply ↓
  27. One Duck In A Row*

    I could absolutely see temps at or near 80f being of concern to OP1 if their job is at all physical. Not everyone has sit down desk jobs, and what may be an annoyance or slightly uncomfortable to someone typing on a computer from their desk chair could be significantly more of a problem for someone whose job isn’t as sedentary. I say this as someone whose current job is all waggling fingers on a keyboard, but who has had jobs involving various degrees of physical labor in the past. I didn’t see the OP indicate what type of job they have or what type of work it involves, and while we can’t assume it’s physical, we can’t assume it’s not. A gentle reminder to AAM readers that this place tends to assume things that aren’t true for a lot of folks, and this place could be more helpful and welcoming if we were aware of those assumptions.

    Reply ↓
    1. HannahS*

      YES THANK YOU.

      There’s a real irony to all the guffawing criticism of the out-of-touch CEOs of last week, and then collectively forgetting that manual labour exists a week later. If you’re moving your body in a manufacturing plant in steel-toed boots, heavy pants, a safety vest, gloves, goggles, a respirator, and a hard hat, 25C/77F is HOT.

      Even in healthcare, my work would be intolerable at that temperature. If I’m spending a lot of my day in a cotton undershirt, semi-synthetic scrubs, a fully-synthetic gown, an N95, a plastic face-shield, and nitrile gloves, I’m boiling and getting soaked in sweat even with aggressive AC.

      Reply ↓
    2. Benihana scene stealer*

      I don’t think it matters what type of work they were doing – either way the A/C was broken and someone should have been on top of getting it fixed (which it sounds like is what happened anyway)

      I think most of the commenters take their cues from the host(ess) of the site, so I would look there first as to why things are or aren’t mentioned.

      Reply ↓
    3. The Petson from the Resume*

      We don’t even know what the temperatures were either. The letter doesn’t say.

      Both the temperature and the physical nature of the job would add some important context but we’re all left to speculate.

      Reply ↓
  28. Not Bill but Billie*

    #3, I’m not Bill, but I’m *a* Bill… or a Billie, rather. Anyway, the fan outcry made no difference with corporate, nor with future prospects, but it certainly didn’t hurt and it was good for my ego at a time when it had just taken a battering.

    We all like to know we’re appreciated when life is sending signals to the contrary.

    Reply ↓
  29. HonorBox*

    LW1 – Have a follow up conversation with your boss. It may help clear the air related to your threat to not return following lunch, AND it is going to help shed some light on something being amiss with how weekend staff’s reports about problems are going unanswered.

    If you’re going to have staff working on Saturday, they need to have the same ability to ensure a safe and comfortable working environment. Maybe it takes an hour instead of 15 minutes for someone to show up, but no one should have to go through the workday without restroom access. We don’t know if the temperature was just uncomfortable or unsafe, but we do know that your coworker reported a sewage backup and that was not addressed. It wasn’t even acknowledged. So I think this gives you an opportunity to point out a flaw in the system. Facilities needs to have someone on call and able to respond within a reasonable timeframe. Your coworker’s calls regarding a very serious issue are most important. But both situations tell me that some sort of adjustment needs to be made. Your boss is the one who needs to be initiating conversations. And your boss can easily say, “My employee called regarding a sewage backup and no one even responded. This is putting my staff in a position where the working conditions are both illegal and incredibly unsafe.”

    Reply ↓
  30. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    5. I do find it rather amusing that we English have a reputation of being stuck up and zealous about our language when y’all over the pond argue about it WAY more than we do. Most of us don’t. Heck even the Queen (rest in peace Liz) wouldn’t have corrected your speech in front of her.

    I’d invite our American cousins to come over here and spend a day or so dealing with the calls we get in our office. Deal with people from Glasgow, Inverness, Llandudno, Penzance, Essex, thames estury and Bristol in one day.

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      It’s rare (and considered extremely rude) to correct someone’s grammar to their face. It’s socially acceptable to do so if you’re in a proofreading/copy-editing role, teaching, or if the error is so egregious that the meaning of the sentence is being changed. Outside of those situations, a lot of us have deeply held pet peeves that we happily bring to the appropriate chat threads.

      Reply ↓
    2. Indolent Libertine*

      Oh heck no, I (West Coast USA born and bred) would be so confounded by the pronunciation differences that I would be hard pressed to even discern the words themselves at all, let alone notice differences in how they were used!

      I am now trying, and failing, to imagine how “y’all” sounds in a posh cut-glass accent…

      Reply ↓
      1. Nightengale*

        I have heard something close although I’m not sure I can accurately describe or transcribe it after all these years.

        I had, in a college in eastern Pennsylvania, a professor of Greek who had what could best be described as an educated New England accent. He had us translate second person plural as “y’all.”

        Reply ↓
    3. NoIWontFixYourComputer*

      Speaking as one of those uncouth USA-ians, Her Majesty had that most uncommon of traits — impeccable tact. I get the sense she would NEVER have corrected someone to their face.

      Reply ↓
  31. Blue Pen*

    #4 – I was in a similar situation but reversed. I’ve been at my employer for nearly a decade now while my spouse was apply for roles here (and was hired at the end of last year).

    As long as you know there won’t be any significant crossover, then if—as you say—the employer “has a pretty substantial presence in [y]our area,” it’s highly likely HR has come across this before and is used to it. My employer could be characterized the same way, and it was never an issue given how big it is. The only time it would’ve raised eyebrows is if we worked in the same department or significant overlap would be expected. Good luck!

    Reply ↓
    1. SometimesMaybe*

      I agree, if the company is that large, like a hospital, school system, or major chain, they are going to have a Human Resource Department, not just a few staff members. I would not even worry about it, yes disclose it, but otherwise I am sure this is not the only time this has come up.

      Reply ↓
  32. Poison I.V. drip*

    “Could care less” is actually correct, if you think of it like this: Ever hear somebody say “As if I care” or “as if I give a shit”? By the late 80s/early 90s, GenXers had shortened that to “Like I give a shit” and eventually “I give a shit!” was a shorthand way of dismissing something somebody just said. It’s not incorrect, it’s just that the “Like” at the beginning fell off from frequent use. So, “I could care less” is the non-profanity version of “I give a shit.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I have wondered if “I could care less” might be a shortened variant of “I could care less if it were absolutely necessary” and the omitted part is just implied/obvious/intuited.

      Reply ↓
  33. Sneaky Squirrel*

    #4 – I was recently in a similar situation. I was in interview conversations with an offshoot company for my spouse’s employer. The position I applied to was for HR and while I was pretty sure there was no overlap, I didn’t want to get too far into the process and then find out that there could be a conflict of interest. I lead it with “I have a family member who works for X, would that be a conflict of interest” to keep my marital status out of it. If they had responded with a concern, then I would have planned to share further.

    Reply ↓
  34. juliebulie*

    Generation X here. Never heard of “As if I give a shit” shortened to “I give a shit.” Maybe regional.

    Reply ↓
    2. Dr. Rebecca*

      Depending on inflection, I could totally make “I give a shit” work, but then I’m an extremely sarcastic person.

      Reply ↓
  35. jane's nemesis*

    I haven’t seen this mentioned yet – OP4, take your home address off your resume! City and state is fine if you still feel you need to establish your location, but it’s pretty dated to have an address on a resume at all anymore.

    Reply ↓
    1. Juicebox Hero*

      I think from now on all idiomatic speech should contain references to scones. It’s time to call a scone a scone. The scone is in the details. We ought to put our noses to the grindscone and not look a gift scone in the crust. Just my two scones’ worth.

      Reply ↓
  37. Honey Badger*

    You’re most likely not getting a huge raise. She was probably just uncomfortable with your answer and that’s what came out. Ask yourself if any of your colleagues have ever gotten a huge, life changing raise.

    Reply ↓
  38. Hyaline*

    I think I’m in the minority, but A/C being out is typically a question of comfort, not of true danger. OSHA is about health and safety–not comfort. There are situations where A/C being out absolutely could cross that threshold, but it’s not the automatic emergency situation that LW1 made it out to be, nor does it automatically warrant vacating the office. Sorry, but…sometimes your office or workplace will be temporarily uncomfortable, and you have to deal with that.

    The bathrooms being out is a different story–you should have access to bathrooms–but it’s also a different story in that a sewage issue may not be the building’s sole responsibility or within their capability to fix quickly. You might be waiting on city maintenance workers or permits, and it was a weekend. That’s not to say the manager shouldn’t have provided an alternative–like telling her to go home–just saying these two examples are not apples to apples and it’s hard to cross-pollinate the lessons learned between those situations.

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I’m sorry but you are wrong. If it gets too hot you can get sick. There are lots of people who cannot tolerate high temperatures. If it gets 80+ degrees in the office with no AC or fans then i will get physically sick, often needing a day to recover.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hyaline*

        I literally said there are situations that cross the threshold into health or safety concerns. But a/c being out doesn’t necessarily mean it’s into that territory.

        Reply ↓
      2. Czhorat*

        Even if we accept that most employees will not be in danger of ill-health at, say, 78 degrees there clearly IS an issue of discomfort. I don’t think it’s a great look for management to say that they’d tolerate nearly any condition that won’t literally put employees in the hospital.

        Unless you’re a truly essential role then sending people home when conditions are poor is a kindness that will pay dividends in employee satisfaction and loyalty

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        1. HonorBox*

          This.

          People dress for work with the “normal” environment in mind. You might find people who have a sweater or light jacket just in case they’re a bit cool, but it is often difficult to take clothes away. Plus the A/C isn’t just about temperature. It cuts humidity.

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      3. Tea Monk*

        My husband vomits which is weird. My coworker gets dizzy? Several people die in this city every year because the heat and humidity are beyond what many people can stand. I’m ok with heat but I can understand the medical issue

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    2. Lady Danbury*

      This is completely wrong. I work at a utility where there are all sorts of safety procedures around working in certain roles during the summer months (enforced by our OSHA team) because it is absolutely a safety issue. I can’t say whether it was an actual danger in OP’s situation, but excessive heat can be life threatening.

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      1. Antilles*

        There are indeed some roles and areas where the heat becomes a safety issue. I’m in a construction adjacent industry and the topic of recognizing heat stress gets discussed at least once a month if not more.
        That said, it being early April, the A/C only being out for a few hours, and it being five degrees shy of the Boss even being able to start requesting approval to close the building would all imply that this situation is not an ILDH, life-threatening level of excessive heat.

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    3. HonorBox*

      There is a lot about this situation that we don’t know exactly, but if the workplace is normally heated/cooled, the expectation is that there will be working heat or air conditioning. People are going to dress for the expected work environment.

      I think if this happened to be a one-time, stand alone situation, it would be one thing, and I might suggest that the LW’s reaction was a bit over the top. But this was the second time that an issue occurred on the weekend, and facilities was slow to respond, or non-responsive. There needs to be some thought that goes into how the facilities department is staffed and is set up to react when something happens over the weekend. And some thought needs to be put in to how the boss handles situations that make it difficult for their staff to work. Because when the lights go out two Saturdays from now, is everyone going to be expected to just use their phones to light their way?

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    4. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      Yeah, OSHA is, and in my opinion should be, concerned primarily with safety and not comfort. If a manual laborer doing landscaping in July in Georgia or a foundry worker casting molten aluminum are legal, working at a computer without AC certainly should be.

      Mind you, OP is a free person and can go home whenever she wants for whatever reason she wants. But she shouldn’t expect OSHA to back her up.

      Reply ↓
  39. Katie*

    77 is an absolutely INSANE temperature to have an indoor office at, that’s outrageous and no one should have to tolerate that.

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  40. Samwise*

    #5: “Could care less”
    Makes me twitch a little.

    However, language changes, and spoken English is marvelously flexible and fast-changing. If you understand what the speaker actually means, the phrase has done its work and you should move on.

    It’s rude and kind of obnoxious to correct others unless you genuinely do not understand what they mean, in which case, ask politely. (And none of this fake-misunderstanding either, people either see that’s what you’re doing and they think you are an obnoxious snob, or they don’t get it, and then you are showing off your superiority, never a good look and not a good way to treat others who are just trying to communicate)

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  41. Wednesday wishes*

    Real Estate Agent is this women’s job. Presuming she is not paid to be on the board, then just remember she is in selling mode all of the time for her source of income. She made a mistake using what she knows about your living situation to try to get you to hire her as a real estate agent. Then she had to somehow swallow her words when you pointed out the low salary. Just forget she is a board member, because she was just being a real estate agent at that point.

    Reply ↓
    1. SometimesMaybe*

      It is also possible she meant the market will be different next season, not that you will be in a different financial position. And I agree it is probably just a reflex response for an agent.

      Reply ↓
    2. A. Lab Rabbit*

      From what I’ve seen of the real estate agents in my area, they are in “ON” mode every waking minute. Their cars are covered with advertising, they are always wearing logoed clothing, everything. This is just how they are—always on. (It’s also one of the reasons I decided against becoming a real estate agent years ago. I enjoy my down time, and they never seem to have much of it.)

      Reply ↓
  42. Lauren*

    I’m fascinated that someone wrote in with a question about whether they were justified in leaving work because the office was too hot without ever once saying what the temperature was.

    Reply ↓
      1. Paint N Drip*

        Fair point, most typical offices don’t need to monitor internal temperature aside from managing it HVAC-wise. Also, ‘too hot’ is very personal – if OP was hot, she was hot!

        Reply ↓
    2. bamcheeks*

      So am I! Ditto without saying anything about whether it’s office work or physical activity. I mean, I think it’s hard for anyone to disagree that there are some temperatures which make it impossible to do particular types of work, but if you’re asking what’s “reasonable” you’ve got to have some parameters.

      Reply ↓
    3. Esmae*

      I feel like they were probably trying to avoid having a huge debate in the comments over whether that precise temperature is “hot enough” or not. Which… is of course happening anyway.

      Reply ↓
  43. Czhorat*

    I think the boss and employee both have room for improvement in the temperature issue.

    From the boss, “it isn’t an OSHA violation yet” is terrible framing; it’s saying that relief would only be given if legally mandated, and there is no concern for the comfort of employees before that point.

    For the employee, there needs to be SOME measure of flexibility. A slightly higher temperature may not be ideal, but it should be tolerable for an afternoon.

    That said, thermostats are a very common complaint (one of the MOST common) in office situations. It’s unsurprising for this to be an issue.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rogue Slime Mold*

      I’m intrigued by the boss’s argument that if OP walks out, so many people will walk out that they will be forced to close. That sounds like a powder keg of bad working conditions, rather than one person who dislikes humidity.

      Reply ↓
      1. Silver Robin*

        I was looking for someone to mention this! Is everyone else at that job entirely uninvested and eager for the slightest excuse to head out? I had a couple of jobs like that (retail comes to mind) and definitely sympathize. But then, the issue is management and LW is under no obligation to make decisions based on Management’s convenience if the cost is their well-being

        Reply ↓
        1. Czhorat*

          Or it’s one where people feel they need “permission” or that nobody wants to be the first out.

          If everyone is uncomfortable they either feel peer-pressured into staying OR feel that it’s “ok” to leave because others left before them.

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  44. sb51*

    I’ve always (well, always since learning a little about linguistics) assumed that the cause of “could care less” is that the consonant cluster “ldn’tc” is A Lot and as something fossilizes into an expression (rather than being chained together as separate words), it starts to degrade. In some accents, it goes “couldna care less”, losing the T but holding onto the N, which hangs on to the fundamental negative. I’ve also heard a lot of people expand it out to “could not care less”, which, again, keeps the negative. But in my accent it’s really easy to slur off the “dn’t” into just one stop.

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    1. Benihana scene stealer*

      I had read it started when whoever said it was having a conversation about cricket with their friend Leslie.

      “How many runs did the team score yestrerday James?”

      “I couldn’t care, Les”

      Reply ↓
  45. Dinwar*

    “OSHA doesn’t require specific temperatures, but they do recommend 68-76° F…”

    Not entirely true. There are a lot of factors that play into this. For example, the type of clothing–office attire isn’t usually very restricting, but OSHA accounts for things like Level B PPE. And acclimation makes a huge difference. I’ve worked 10-12 hour days in August one mountain range west of Death Valley and was fine, because I’d been working outside all summer and gotten used to it. I’m also a tall lanky fellow, so I handle heat better than people who are shorter and more squat. I drink coffee, which makes me handle heat worse than non-coffee-addicts. The list goes on.

    OSHA’s moving towards physiological monitoring these days. Work/rest regimes are based on how your body responds to rest–if you’re taking longer to return to baseline there’s a problem and you re-evaluate your situation. The whole point is to stop being reactive and start being proactive, not getting to the point where you’re experiencing heat stress. The real problem is, you need a cool place to take your breaks. If your break area is no cooler than the work area, it doesn’t do you any good–your body is still under stress, and it’s still a problem.

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  46. No Egrets*

    As Alison mentioned, it’s hard to know what specific temperatures we’re talking about and that does make a great deal of difference. That said, given the situation with the bathrooms in the past, it sounds like the larger problem comes from working in an institution that has a culture of being unresponsive to staff needs. When your org routinely dismisses or doesn’t respond to serious workplace issues or waits until they’re untenable, I think it’s really easy to get in the habit of treating even minor situations as though they’re more emergent then they are – it feels like being proactive rather than overreactive. It takes work not to start spiraling into the “what if,” when in the past it’s been necessary.

    I will also bring up one point relative to working in a public place when things like heating, cooling, and bathrooms go out. You are not only dealing with your own discomfort, but that of the public – which can include kids, elderly, people with housing instability, sometimes people in crisis or people who rely on that place for physical comfort not available elsewhere. Add in things like extreme heat, you’re also contending with the reactions and emotional responses to those you serve. I don’t mind working in 90 F (32 C) heat myself so much as I would be worried about working in that environment and the capacity for tempers to flare that much easier, fights to break out amongst those waiting for services, etc.

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  47. Margaret Cavendish*

    Ambient temperature and prescriptive grammar, on the same thread? Alison is diving into some of the classic AAM controversies this morning!

    Reply ↓
  48. LingNerd*

    For #5, after getting a degree in linguistics, I’ve found that it’s much more fun to approach all language change as interesting rather than wrong!

    This is just a thing that happens all over the place in language. The individual parts of a common phrase lose their meaning, and then sometimes little bits of sound just kind of get lopped off. One of the best examples of this is in French, where negation is “ne [VERB] pas” – except “pas” on its own means “step” and it somehow got used so often that it became part of formal negation. But that’s formal written French. In most spoken French nowadays, the “ne” is usually dropped. It’s just a tiny, unstressed syllable, so it’s only natural to get rid of it. What’s left is just the “pas” after the verb.

    The same thing is happening with “could(n’t) care less.” You might think there’s a t sound on the end of that contraction because it’s written with a a t, but there isn’t. The sound is an n all by itself. Just a tiny little unstressed syllable that doesn’t even have a vowel to draw attention to it. It’s not just in that context either, and something that can really confuse non-native speakers is that “can” and “can’t” are actually distinguished by their vowels, not their consonants. Because the final t isn’t pronounced. If you try to emphasize the word “can’t” you make an increasingly nasal æ sound. So it makes sense that people drop that syllable in the word “couldn’t.” And the meaning doesn’t actually change, because it’s the whole phrase that carries the meaning rather than the individual words!

    Reply ↓
    1. Constance Lloyd*

      There are hundreds of ways to speak English, all of them are grammatically correct, and an ability to use context clues and ask clarifying questions will probably help you navigate most confusing or unfamiliar expressions.

      Reply ↓
  49. Just me, The OG*

    For #1, we had building-wide HVAC work this past summer. Offices were regularly over 80 degrees. Those who could work from home did.

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  50. ReallyBadPerson*

    LW#3 I do know of one instance when protesting a firing got the guy reinstated. In 2014, the CEO of a wildly popular Massachusetts supermarket chain, Market Basket, got fired by the board. The employees and the public were incensed. There were picket lines, boycotts, angry letters, signs on public roads. At the end of that summer, the boars and shareholders agreed to sell their shares to the fired CEO, Artie T. DeMoulas, and he got his job back.

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      1. Delta Delta*

        Fellow New Englander here. Would not be surprised if somehow boars were enlisted to help with this.

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    2. Irish Teacher.*

      In Ireland about a quarter of a century ago, our national broadcaster decided to lay off the meteorologists who read the weather and replace them with presenters who were considered to be “better communicators”. It…didn’t go down well and the experts were reinstated.

      I guess that is a particular case as out taxes fund RTÉ, but still, it does work sometimes.

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  51. SometimesMaybe*

    I think I may know to many Realtors, but the comment to me read, like the market will be different next year. Even if not, reframing the meaning may give the OP some relief thinking the comment could be read a multitude of ways, even just a canned sales response.

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  52. Observer*

    #3- As usual, Alison is on the mark that for the most part, community pushback on a layoff of a “beloved” staff member won’t do any harm. But there is one huge caveat, and it’s hard to know fro the outside when it applies.

    Every so often there is stuff going on in the background that is not being made public. But when the backlash begins, the dirt is exposed. And that can cause a lot more trouble that just a quiet “layoff.” I am *not* accusing him of anything, and I’m not even *implying* that. This is more of a general comment about the one potential downside of campaigns of this sort.

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  53. Nilsson Schmilsson*

    LW 5, irregardless, she could of cared less. Then I, literally, felt me teeth begin to itch.

    Happy Monday!

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  55. Insulindian Phasmid*

    Also the could/couldn’t care less debate appears in Charlotte’s Web in a slightly different form and it’s all I ever think about when the phrase appears.

    “I am not interested in pigs. Pigs mean less than nothing to me.”
    “What do you mean, less than nothing?” replied Wilbur. “I don’t think there is any such thing as less than nothing. Nothing is absolutely the limit of nothingness. It’s the lowest you can go. It’s the end of the line. How can something be less than nothing? If there were something that was less than nothing, then nothing would not be nothing, it would be something even though it’s just a very little bit of something. But if nothing is nothing, then nothing has nothing that is
    less than it is.”
    “Oh, be quiet!” said the lamb. “Go play by yourself! I don’t play with pigs.”

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  56. Delta Delta*

    #1 – I feel like I need more information, like what the temperature was, and also what the job entails. If it’s a relatively sedentary job, the warmer temp might be uncomfortable, but not impossible if it’s a job that requires a lot of physical movement. I also wonder if the AC is connected to/responsible for issues with humidity. If it’s hot AND swampy, or it causes smells because the air isn’t moving, or whatever else might be an issue without AC, that may be an additional problem.

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  57. Teacher not on spring break anymore*

    I wonder if the fast response and arrival of repairman was because of letter writers refusal to stay.

    Reply ↓
  58. Honeybadger*

    I absolutely COULD care less about certain things. It would take an extremely high dose of Lithium administered daily for several years but I’m sure I’d care less than I do right now.

    Reply ↓
  59. Ms. Murchison*

    Ha, wish it had occurred to me to look for any workplace regulations when a public library required us to stay when the AC went out and it got up at 95 F outside. I don’t know what they expected us to do; even in a fairly stationary job I just sat and stared blankly because I was so overheated.

    Reply ↓

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