boss won’t stop wearing perfume that gives me headaches, my new job is doing something illegal, and more

by Alison Green on April 14, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My boss won’t stop wearing perfume that gives me headaches

I have a generally good relationship with my boss. We work in a shared office space which includes my boss, me, and three other people. I am Covid-cautious still and wear a KN95 mask full-time and run an air purifier while I’m at work. Since moving into the shared space, I’ve had increased instances of headaches that linger into the evenings, often hours after I’ve left the office. The headaches are negatively impacting my work productivity, as well as the rest of my life.

Several months ago, my boss got a new perfume that was very strong. My headaches increased in intensity. I finally put together that the perfume was triggering them and explained to my boss that I’ve been feeling unwell and I think her perfume is causing my headaches. I shared with her the impact the headaches are having on my work and life. Her response was, “Well, can I at least go back to my old perfume? It’s not as strong. I could wear just a little of it.” I replied, “I’d rather you didn’t.”

Fast forward a few weeks and my headaches continued. One afternoon I mentioned again that I’ve been having more headaches lately and she said “Oh, does my perfume still give you headaches?” (Again, all of this while I’m wearing a mask and running an air purifier full-time.) I told her yes, it still bothers me. I feel as though I’ve been explicit in what I need for the shared space, and my other colleagues we share the room with are on board with my request for no fragrances. However, my boss and I have had this conversation at least three times and she continues to wear perfume to the office. In each conversation I am direct and clear. At this point, I see three possible solutions: 1) My boss finally stops wearing perfume in our shared workspace, 2) my boss moves out of the shared workspace, or 3) I move out of the shared workspace.

How else can I advocate for my health to reduce my headaches? Do I need to put my request for no fragrances in writing? Do I need to explicitly mention accommodations? She is not one who appreciates having people go over her head, so I’m not sure what the best next steps are. I know you’ve addressed fragrance-free offices in the past, but what if the person you’re supposed to go to for help is the one causing the issue and ignoring your requests?

Some people are remarkably oblivious about how bad fragrance sensitivity can be. She shouldn’t be because you’ve spelled it out for her and yet here we are. So at this point it makes sense to treat this like a formal accommodations request, meaning you should go through HR — but since your boss is touchy about people going over her head, you could have one final conversation with her where you spell out what you need, being much more specific this time. For example: “I’m still having headaches when you wear perfume. At this point I think I need to work out of a different space, or talk to HR about getting some kind of accommodation, but I figured you’d prefer I talk with you first. What makes sense as a next step from here?” It would be astonishing if she didn’t realize “oh, I should stop wearing the perfume” — but her track record so far says she might not, so if this conversation doesn’t solve it, the next step is to talk to HR. If you do, don’t think of it as making a complaint about your boss; it’s “I can’t be around perfume, so do we move me, implement a no-fragrances policy, or something else?”

2. I’m interviewing for a potentially dangerous job and want to make sure I know all the risks

I am a candidate for a job that will be the public face of the local women’s shelter. These are not the safest roles — I know it, my family knows it, but we also know they’re vital roles and we’re probably prepared to take it on.

The process is down to a very short list, and I’ve asked about personal and family safety and the level of threat experienced by the previous person. They’ve said non-specific reassuring things about having practices to ensure there’s no risk to physical safety, but they’re not prepared to give me a sense of what kinds of practices are required and how bad it has been previously. They say they will discuss that with the preferred candidate.

There’s a huge difference between “There have been verbal and online threats but nothing else and we’ll make sure you have a duress alarm and are flagged as a priority by the police and if it ever get worse we’ll deal with it together” and “There’ve been a couple of times people went to her home, and her daughter was followed earlier this year, but no one was ever harmed. The police will arrange a panic alarm in your home, car, and personal ones for you, your husband, and kids. They’ll also advise on how we can adapt a room in your house to be a panic room.”

I might still take the role if it’s at the latter end, but I’d like to have time to think and talk to my family about it. I am pretty sure that if it’s at the rough end, some of my family wouldn’t be comfortable staying with us when visiting, and we’d need to be prepared to move Christmas to a friend’s at short notice. If I can expect to be occasionally harassed in public, we’ll need to change the activities we do when we take our nieces for the weekend. And so on. I want my family and I to imagine that life and know we want to do it.

I know they’ll keep us physically safe, that’s not my concern. I also suspect they’re trying to protect the privacy of the previous person, and that what happened in the last year doesn’t necessarily predict the next; it’s often just one out of control ex-partner that causes all the harm.

If they offer me the job and then we talk about the safety risks then, I think it will take away a lot of joy and excitement as I’ll immediately go into the necessary worst case planning with my family before I make the decision. Plus I’ll feel pressured to decide quickly so they can let the other candidates know. If they just tell me now, my husband and I can work it through together, and then I could pull out of the final step if needed — although I don’t think I would — and if I was offered the job I could square my shoulders, take a deep breath, and say “I’d love to!”

They’re a reasonably new board, and I think they’re trying to do the absolutely right thing by everyone. Is it reasonable to say to them “I’d really like to have that conversation now. I want to go into the final presentation/interview 100% committed”?

It’s not unreasonable to ask, but I’d be prepared to be told no. For security reasons, they might discuss those details only with the person they offer the job to, because the fewer people who know all of their security practices the safer everyone is. I also wouldn’t frame it as being worried about the discussion taking away your excitement; that’s not something that should trump security concerns.

Instead, frame it solely as about needing to make sure you have time to think everything through. I would say it this way: “I understand you have reasons for holding off on sharing those details, but I want to make sure I have time to fully think this all that’s entailed and discuss anything necessary with my family, without the time pressure of needing to make a decision on an offer. Would it be possible to have that discussion at our final interview, so I can start that process rolling?”

3. I think my new job is doing something illegal

I started a new job, I love it, and the people are all reasonable and kind. So I was surprised by an interaction I had with a peer during training. They mentioned that sometimes if one workflow gets particularly behind, it pings a chat where folks who aren’t working can opt in to help out for a bit (the work is remote). I thought it was a neat system to get a bit of overtime when it’s needed, but they said, “Oh, no, it isn’t considered overtime, it’s off the clock. But helping out that way does get recognized.”

How do I ask my manager about this without 1) getting this new peer of mine in trouble if he’s been doing this wrong, 2) suggesting that the company is doing super illegal stuff, or 3) being a problem in my first week here at a job that otherwise is a perfect fit for me? Keeping in mind we are not paid enough to be considered exempt from overtime pay.

You’re still so new that I’d leave it alone for now unless you’re in a senior role where it’s in your purview to intervene on this kind of thing. If you’re not, wait until you’ve been there longer (give it at least a few months, at which point you might have also seen it for yourself).

Yes, this is illegal if what your coworker described is accurate (because your’e non-exempt and there must be paid for all time work, including overtime), but it’s not in your interests as a brand new employee in week one to be pointing that out, when you’re still focusing on making a good impression and becoming less of an unknown quantity. There’s time to raise it later on.

4. Can I wear a different wig every day?

I’m a cancer patient on life-long chemotherapy and still working full-time in the office. I’ve lost my hair permanently due to the chemotherapy. I’ve been sporting what is essentially a buzz cut at work but I have quite a few wigs in a variety of lengths, styles, and colors: brunette, strawberry blonde, and redhead. The lengths and styles are “normal” and what one would expect a woman’s hair to look like: I have everything from a pixie cut to long layers; the styles are straight, wavy, or curly.

Is it unprofessional to wear a different wig every day? My role is not client-facing but I do interact with the C-suite on a regular basis. I have been open about my diagnosis so it’s not a secret. I anticipate that some people might comment on it and that doesn’t scare me.

I could designate one wig or a few similar wigs as “work wigs” but I’d like to change it up! I could also wear the same wig for, say, the week if a different wig every day is too much. I don’t want to come across as attention-seeking. But I’ve found that living with a cancer diagnosis is all about finding joy and fun wherever you can and wigs are becoming fun for me!

Unless you’re in an extremely conservative industry or conservative office culture, change up your wigs as often as you like! This would be fine in most offices. If you’re not positive how it’ll fly in yours, you can always run it by someone there whose judgment you trust, or just try it for a week and see if people seem extremely discombobulated, but I think you should be fine. (Probably don’t change them mid-day though.)

5. How to ask for a reference when your manager is being laid off

My company has just gone through major layoffs in preparation for closing the site where I work. I’m safe for now, but expect to be laid off as well within the year. The layoffs included many managers, including all of the people I’ve reported to over the last nine years.

When job searching in the past, I’ve always listed my manager’s company phone and email as their contact information. I don’t exchange my personal phone number with my managers; they’ve never asked for it, and I’ve never volunteered. Of course, I’ll have whoever I end up reporting to after my current manager is gone, but that person will probably only manage me for a few months before I’m out as well.

So how do I obtain personal contact info for my managers without being insensitive to the fact that they’ve just lost their jobs? It feels wrong to just up and ask if they’ll be references for me when I job search, while they’re jumping into their own job searches and likely are hurt and upset. Some have definitely disconnected already — stopped wearing business attire or attending meetings, not coming on-site, etc. I’ve connected on LinkedIn with those I can find, but not all are on LinkedIn, some are retiring, and others may just not check there after finding a job, so I can’t count on being able to reach them when I need references. I’m not sure how to prepare for my own job search without souring the relationships with a tone-deaf request.

This is not tone-deaf! This is a normal thing to ask and a normal part of being a manager; they are not likely to think you’re being insensitive. You could simply say, “I’d love to be able to stay in touch even though you’re leaving, for future references but also just because I’ve enjoyed working with you. Could we exchange contact info so we don’t lose track of each other?”

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{ 331 comments }

{ 331 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. FunkyMunky*

    #1 – I’d suggest you also get a doctor’s note about fragrance allergies (as you’re clearly sensitive to strong scents). Could you also ask for a more hybrid schedule so you don’t have to sit in a shared office all day? One of my coworkers is very sensitive and back in pre-full WFH times she would just leave if scents were heavy and bothering her. We did have a scene free policy in the office but tbh nobody really took it seriously – including her boss

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    1. JSPA*

      Also, at the moment (unless you don’t have headaches on days when the bosses out of the office, if those ever happen, or if you get in first by an hour or two and the headache start when she walks in the door) you don’t, strictly speaking, know that it’s the perfume. The perfume could be a red herring, with the actual problem being a mold problem in the office, dust mites in the carpet, the soap in the other coworker’s laundry, the fact that you’re breathing differently or tugging your mask to a different position as they shouldn’t to try to block the smell (etc). And I say this as someone who has had all of those problems, as well as sensitivity to a wide variety of fragrances. Asking that the boss go perfume free for a week, by way of diagnosis, “in case it’s actually something else,” would be my first ask (and a very reasonable request).

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      1. LingNerd*

        It depends on how strong the perfume is. I had someone near me who regularly wore very heavy perfume and it got the the point where the scent seeped into to walls of my cube and I was getting headaches every single day, even when they weren’t there

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      2. J*

        I have migraines triggered by fragrance, and I absolutely know when it’s someone’s perfume or cologne. I don’t need to get in two hours early and have the headache start the moment someone walks in the door, or never have headaches any other time, to know for sure. I have 25 worth of experience of identifying triggers. I’d be pretty pissed off if someone told me, “Well you don’t know for sure!” I’m guessing if the letter writer has gotten to the point of asking her boss to stop wearing perfume, she know for sure.

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        1. Kate 2*

          The OP stated that she had the headaches before the perfume though. So something was causing them before that. If the OP isn’t fragrance free already she should try that before talking to her boss. Foods, sounds, lights, even too tight eyeglasses can all cause headaches. It can be easy to point to an obvious thing and say it is the cause but it isn’t necessarily so. Especially in the OP’s case. Something was causing the headaches she had before the boss started wearing perfume.

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          1. Joan*

            OP’s boss mentioned going back to her old perfume. I’m assuming that was also causing headaches, but the new scent is extra strong, triggering the more intense headaches.

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        2. Christine*

          Fragrances set off my asthma. It’s really obvious when my airways shut down. One moment, I’m breathing with a relaxed chest wall. The next, I’m not.

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    2. UK Girl*

      I agree, I am wondering if the boss is fully believing the extent the perfume is affecting OP. OP is clearly a sedative person and some kind of medical back up as to the extent of their sensitivity would be useful here.

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    3. Antilles*

      Good idea. I feel like having a doctor’s note will both help show OP1’s boss that it’s serious and also make it more ‘medical’ so it doesn’t feel so personal.

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    4. I See Real People*

      I second the idea of getting a doctor’s note. It sounds like you have an allergy. In the last couple of years, my allergic reactions are scratchy throat and itchy skin when someone wears too much perfume/cologne and I’m around them for an extended period of time. Same with strong-smelling laundry detergents. A doctor’s note will help your boss realize that her perfume is medically harming you and/or HR will be obligated to move you (or her) to a different area. Good luck!

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    5. Judy*

      Something similar happened to me while working at a hospital. When I was sent to employee health and told them someone’s perfume was giving me headaches the nurse said I hadn’t noted that on my pre-employment health questionnaire so now I always do! I wasn’t happy to be told the other employee had a “right” to wear perfume – so her right to wear perfume apparently trumped my right to not feel well. They ended up moving the perfume-wearer and problem was solved but it took months.

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      1. learnedthehardway*

        That’s so strange for a hospital!!! I mean – to allow fragrances at all. Most of the ones I’ve been to have very large, clear signs saying “This is a fragrance-free environment”.

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        1. Percy Weasley*

          When I was in the hospital not long ago, a couple of the nurses had laundered their scrubs in some very strongly-scented detergent. It was awful.

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    6. Jackalope*

      I’m not sure that there’s an option for the OP to stay in the same office, honestly. She can try to get HR to put out a decree that the office needs to be a scent-free office, but given that she’s made this request of her boss multiple times with no success, I’m not convinced that a reasonable accommodation request will actually help. I’d encourage her to push more for something like a separate office space where she can work away from her boss so the boss can’t keep “forgetting” that it’s an issue.

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    8. 2.0 A*

      Honest answer? I’d give sone MAJOR side eye to someone warring a mask and running an air purifier nonstop who is complaining about perfume. At some point, you have to learn to exist with other human beings.

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      1. LadyVet*

        Part of existing with other humans is not wearing strong fragrances when other people are forced to share space with you.

        The LW isn’t the only person who would benefit from the boss not wearing perfume at work.

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      3. Superhero Girl*

        Interesting perspective- I see it completely the opposite way. LW is doing everything within her control to help the issue and it’s not helping. To me, asking for fragrance-free is a logical next step. It’s not about existing with other humans, it’s about being able to function comfortably in her workspace.

        Could you clarify why that would cause you to side- eye?

        (I’m saying this as someone who gets migraines from strong smells and has had to ask the same people over and over not to run their banned oil diffusers in the office)

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      4. YetAnotherAnalyst*

        So… a mask will probably help, but an N95 mask is NOT designed to filter volatile organic compounds, which is what the headache-causing element of perfume most likely would be. And neither are most air purifiers, especially desktop models – they’re usually just filtering particulates. “Learning to exist with other human beings” includes learning not to wear perfume around people you know are caused physical pain by it.

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        1. RC*

          This. It’s always a bit unnerving when I can still smell cigarette smoke through a P100 (i.e., even better than an N95), but it’s because the smells are in the volatiles (at least enough for my brain to register as a smell), and the masks only filter particulates. And if the air cleaner *isn’t* just filtering particulates I’d be more worried, because the alternative is usually some “UV sanitizer” stuff and that can be really iffy and maybe make ozone (which isn’t good to breathe either).

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      5. Perihelion*

        You can’t learn not to have a health problem. Would you say the same thing to someone who had a severe food allergy?

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        1. MigraineMonth*

          “Have you tried just *not* suffocating from anaphylaxis? It’s not that hard, I do it every day.” /sarcasm

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      6. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I think you might have really outdated knowledge about fragrance sensitivities. They’re a real thing that can cause real suffering, which is why places like hospitals ban them and someone in the OP’s shoes will be protected under the ADA. The side eye should go to anyone cavalier about someone having a fragrance reaction, not to the person having it.

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      7. Lenora Rose*

        I’ve yet to notice a mask actually hide any scents from me, to be honest; I may not get exposed to microdroplets but I’ve definitely been scent-bombed on the bus by other folks’ perfume, BO and, ah, other things. And recently, I had an allergic reaction to *my own* new strongly scented deodorant — even as I masked up a couple of days at work again due to thinking I was getting cold symptoms. (Pity, as while it was a bit strong, i actually liked the scent).

        Similarly, air-purifiers reduce smells a bit, but they don’t happen instantly; it takes several minutes (And hours to fully cycle all the air in the location). As long as the boss is shedding new scent, the air purifier will be forever running behind on taking it back out of the air.

        Really, though, what’s the harm in the boss trying to not wear it for a week to see if it’s the actual cause? Nobody, last I heard, starts feeling sick or headachy from *Not* wearing scent for a few days.

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        1. Annony*

          Another thing to keep in mind is that not all air purifiers are created equal. I used to think they were a waste of time but recently got a much better one (larger, three different filers including a HEPA filter) and it makes a huge difference for my asthma. If the company is not open to a scent free policy and unwilling to move either OP or OP’s boss to another room, asking for a medical grade air purifier that is actually appropriate for the size of the room might be worth exploring.

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          1. Lenora Rose*

            Good point. I’d never try to use our home “Just want to get the smoke smell from the cooking accident out of the air quicker in midwinter” air purifier anywhere larger or more varied like an office, but our one department that used one had a big box that was supposed to cycle all the air in the whole space overnight; because of the noise they only ran it sometimes during the workday, and only at the signs of an allergen trigger – but it made an impressive difference within an hour.

            That’s still an hour of suffering but better one than 7.

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        2. Emmet Dash*

          To an actually remove scents, you need a respirator with a charcoal cartridge filter. Not many people would want to wear one all day, and not many offices would find it acceptable.

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      8. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

        I would see it the other way around: LW has already done everything within her control to solve the problem, and it isn’t enough. Running an air purifier is a way of existing with other human beings, as is masking. Is she supposed to quit her job rather than ask other people to change anything they’re doing?

        Yes, some people like wearing perfume, including at work. But it’s an optional extra, and most of us have learned to exist around other human beings without wearing perfume, certainly without wearing one specific fragrance.

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        1. Springtime*

          I agree with you–nothing incompatible about an air purifier/mask and being sensitive to fragrances. I did wonder, though, if not all the communication has been clear. The OP told her boss she would prefer she didn’t wear the perfume, which is clear. But I also noticed that the OP starts by saying she uses the mask and air purifier because she is COVID cautious, but then later implies that the boss should have guessed the perfume is still a problem because of same. Maybe I’m not reading that as intended, but I can see a scenario in which the boss is sensing some moving goalposts. If I were the OP, I think I’d ask the boss to agree to an experiment: no perfume for three weeks. If the headaches clear up, then the likely cause is identified.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            Yeah, sometimes we have to be a *lot* more explicit with our requests/needs than we think. LW, have you specifically said, “I think that both of your perfumes are causing me to have headaches, could you please not wear any perfume to the office?” Because I think you need that level of bluntness.

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      9. Middle Aged Lady*

        Would you say the same about not bringing in nuts when someone has a nut allergy?
        Frangrance allergies are real. I had a boss like this and there were three of us in the office who would get instant headaches and runny noses (one had water eyes as well) when she came in to the office a couple of days a week. It was exhausting and infuriating that she would not listen. We were a non-profit and we kept telling her there were probably donors she was affecting, too, but to no avail.

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      10. Middle Aged Lady*

        Would you say the same about not bringing in nuts when someone has a nut allergy?
        Frangrance allergies are real. I had a boss like this and there were three of us in the office who would get instant headaches and runny noses (one had water eyes as well) when she came in to the office a couple of days a week. It was exhausting and infuriating that she would not listen. We were a non-profit and we kept telling her i think she was noseblind to how much she was wearing. You could smell it as soon as she came in the front door. We told her as well that there were probably donors she was affecting, too, but to no avail.

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      11. Fool's Gold*

        My side-eye is toward someone so dedicated to wearing perfume at work! You’re not on a date; why do you want to impose your preferred scent on everyone else, especially people who will be *in pain* all day as a result of it?

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      12. MeepMeep123*

        Why is OP the one supposed to “learn to exist with other human beings” by enduring headaches? Shouldn’t OP’s boss be the one to “learn to exist with other human beings” by not wearing perfume that gives OP a headache and makes her unable to function?

        Not everyone is able-bodied, and people with various health issues do have the right to hold jobs, exist in public places, and interact with others. Learning to exist with other human beings involves learning that some human beings have physical problems, and that accommodating those physical problems is required so that those human beings can continue to function in public without enduring blinding headaches or whatever other health issues they may have to endure. It’s called basic consideration for others.

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      13. Dahlia*

        It’s causing them physical pain. You can’t just “learn to exist” with constant pain – or, well, you can, but you should not have to if it can be prevented.

        Do you think they’re lying about how badly it affects them?

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      14. I Have RBF*

        What? So our health mean nothing because “At some point, you have to learn to exist with other human beings.”??

        I’m giving YOU some “MAJOR side eye” for thinking that your “right” to spread diseases and perfume trumps someone else’s health. Your right to be obnoxious does not trump someone else’s medical concerns, period.

        People like you are why people like me can’t work safely in offices.

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      15. FunkyMunky*

        she’s trying to keep herself bug free while the rest of everyone’s raw dogging it and creating new pandemics.

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      16. summoningdark*

        So, a body’s response to an allergen or an irritant isn’t really something that can be learned or unlearned. Trust me, I wish it was. My life would be a lot easily if that were the case. I used to be able to be around scented lotions, use normal shampoo and be near people wearing perfume without consequences. Now, I have awful physical reactions to it and no amount of specialists seen, medications tried, or cursing can alter that.

        It’s not about a preference or a dislike of the smell of a scent. I can find someone’s fragrance pleasant — for about an instant, until it makes me sick. I hope that you never find out how much living with something like this can complicate your life but I do hope that you can try to put yourself in the shoes of the many, many people who are allergic or sensitive to artificial fragrances and would just like to breathe air without something in it making you feel terrible.
        A mask and an air purifier are sometimes ways of coping with the worst of such a sensitivity but the particles that cause smells are very smell and even the best mask can only do so much.
        Part of existing with other human beings is understanding that sometimes your actions affect others. I think a good analogy here is secondhand smoke TBH.

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      17. Kay*

        I find it interesting you chose “learn to exist with other human beings” as the takeaway, but didn’t figure out that takeaway was applied to the wrong side of the situation. Part of being a decent human being is doing your best not to intentionally make the rest of the humans around you miserable.

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      18. Christine*

        The right to breathe trumps the “right” to wear fragrance, smoke, or otherwise pollute the shared air.

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    9. Essentially Working*

      I have the feeling that if the OP is having headaches while wearing a KN95 mask AND running an air purifier, that there may be something more going on. I agree that seeing a doctor is warranted. After all, this isn’t making a strong case for masks and air purifiers. I am sympathetic to the OP but this seems like there’s more going on.

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        1. Cabbagepants*

          I spoke too broadly. They make smaller respiratorsthat block organic vapors like perfume. But KN95 or N95 both target particles and not fumes.

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        2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

          To illustrate Cabbagepants’ point… Geraniol is one of hundreds of different volatile organic compounds (VOCs) involved in the smell of roses. It’s used in fragrances, and a high concentrations it causes headaches – the exact threshold varies by person. It doesn’t form particles; it’s just a molecule dispersed into the air because it is volatile. It’s about 800 picometers – which is 0.008 nanometers. By comparison, coronaviruses are roughly 100 nanometers – or about 0.1 microns. The respiratory aerosol from a cough is particulates up to about 5 microns.
          N95 masks are designed to filter out at least 95% of the particulates at 0.3 microns. That’s 300,000 picometers – 375 times larger than our representative VOC.

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          1. The Rural Juror*

            Ooooh this is good to know – thank you for sharing. I’ve noticed many floral fragrances trigger a reaction from me that others, like sandalwood or rosemary, do not. I wonder if it may be what you’ve just described. Very interesting!

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        3. Beebis*

          The cloth ones I wore out in public when mandatory mask policies were in place absorbed the scent of the essential oils my eyebrow waxing place used and I didn’t realize it until I left and had to inhale a strong lavender scent the whole bus ride home. I don’t envy this LW at all and hope a good solution is found.

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          1. Dahlia*

            I had to use different laundry detergent on ours (a scentless one for babies) because our normal detergent which was fine for clothes made me unable to breathe when concentrated on a mask. *shudders*

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      2. Skippy*

        The OP’s boss may well see it that way, too, but that’s a little like saying a hail net would block out raindrops or the bollards on a sidewalk would keep out pedestrians. The particle sizes may be too small to be kept out by these filters.

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      3. Allegra*

        I would agree there is “something going on,” but I bet that thing is a migraine. Fragrances are an extremely common migraine trigger–some studies show they are THE most common migraine trigger. (If anyone did not know, you can have migraines without aura; chronic headaches are often migraines, which I did not know until I was in my late 20s.) Air filters don’t remove ALL fragrance from a space and may not do anything if they don’t have the right type of filter, and fragrance particles are smaller than a mask can block.

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      4. iglwif*

        But VOCs (the things that make perfume stink) are much, much smaller than the particles that N95 and KN95 masks are designed to filter out.

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      5. I Have RBF*

        N95 masks only block particulate, including aerosols, but not VOC gasses.

        For example, it block pollen, but not perfume (VOCs, particularly aldehydes and ketones.)

        For an air purifier to hands perfumes/fragrances, it has to have at least a charcoal filter to absorb the VOCs. HEPA (high efficiency particulate air) filters only absorb particulates.

        Reply ↓
      6. Jellyfish Catcher*

        I never thought or knew that fragrances could be so tough on some, until
        One Day, long ago.
        A new client came in; I smelled a fragrance that made me immediately nauseous, even several doors down from reception.
        My assistant was not affected.

        We gracefully transferred her to another person, also unaffected.
        But I always knew the moment each time she came in the door.

        Reply ↓
  2. SamiLou*

    For OP 2: Would you consider asking to (or just going ahead and doing so) speak to the previous person in that position? Or their second-in-command? Or anyone high up in the organization?

    Reply ↓
    1. linger*

      That assumes OP2 can get contact details for people in those roles (other than the known contact point of the hiring manager) before being offered the position. But with security concerns as already stipulated, that is certainly not a given.

      Reply ↓
    2. Cat*

      Given the security concerns, I cannot imagine they give contact info for the person who worked the job last. I am quite sure I would say no to that in that position.

      Reply ↓
    3. Sloanicota*

      That was my thought … if it’s possible to ask to be connected with that person (if they don’t have a linked in) or any people in the past role, that would be better than whatever the job says anyway. I have seen boards lie to candidates fairly often, usually by saying what *should* be the case instead of what actually happens.

      Reply ↓
      1. Blueberry*

        I don’t think they’re being cagey because they’re trying to give candidates unrealistic expectations for the role—they’re doing it to protect the residents. I completely understand why LW wants to know, but (for now) there’s no way to tell them that won’t create potential security issues.

        Reply ↓
      1. Blueberry*

        Agreed. If they’ve already told you, “Your physical safety won’t be at risk, but we can’t tell you more than that unless we make you an offer,” then that needs to be the end of it for now. Frankly, continuing to push or trying to circumvent their policy is likely to come off as suspicious.

        Reply ↓
        1. Cabbagepants*

          I work in a different industry with its own security measures and being this pushy would get your application rejected.

          Reply ↓
          1. Blueberry*

            Yeah. Even if the interviewers give LW the full benefit of the doubt and assume they’re not trying to track down a resident, it’s still going to look like they don’t fully understand why those protocols are in place. If there’s any indication that LW isn’t going to take the confidentiality rules seriously, that’s likely to cost them the job.

            (LW, if you’re reading this, I’m not accusing you of anything here! It’s clear from your letter that your intentions are good, but the interviewer isn’t going to know that.)

            Reply ↓
        2. Annony*

          I agree. The organization has acknowledged the concern and made it clear at what point in the process they will be comfortable having an in depth discussion. I do think that OP could use this to push to have enough time to actually assess the safety plan and discuss with their family before responding to an offer but not to get the information earlier in the process. If getting that information at the offer stage is a deal breaker then they should say that and most likely be dropped from consideration.

          Reply ↓
          1. Blueberry*

            Yeah, I think it would be reasonable to ask how long they’d have to consider a potential offer once they have all the information, and try to negotiate more time if necessary.

            Reply ↓
          2. Kay*

            I also thought the OP did a pretty good job of running through the possible scenarios already! She says she likely wouldn’t turn it down even if it was a worst case, so what is the need to push? Why isn’t it enough to run through the possibilities and be ready for whatever answer they have, if it gets that far? I get wanting to know, but it seems like this might be more than just someone confirming an answer they already knew.

            Reply ↓
    5. Cordelia*

      They are not going to give out contact details for the previous person if they have appropriate security measures in place. If they were to do this I would consider it useful information that shows that actually they are not sufficiently aware of staff safety.

      Reply ↓
      1. Blueberry*

        Yes, exactly. From the outside, it’s impossible to tell the difference between “legitimate job candidate” and “abusive partner looking for holes in our security”—and the interviewers know this. I’m sure it’s frustrating for candidates with good intentions, but it would be worse if they didn’t withhold information.

        Reply ↓
        1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

          True dat. IME (20+ years of working in the field) the abuser’s new partner or mom can be a very ferocious proxy for the abuser.
          LW2, forgive me if you know this already, but many shelters have given up on trying to hide their location and just have stronger security. No matter how many times you ask Google to take it off maps it always comes back. You can probably ask which approach they’re taking. If it helps your peace of mind, I’ve never heard of or experienced an advocate being attacked or followed. I got a couple rude voicemails which the police handled. Unfortunately, the abuser usually targets the victim in some way as punishment for going to shelter. Caveat, the CJ system has gotten very lenient in some parts of the country the last 5ish years so I’m seeing more boundary pushing in general. If you know you’re just going to get probation (over their objection) for the 7th, 8th, 9th time, go ahead and try it.
          With common sense safety measures I think you’ll be A-OK. Skip the online reviews and take down any you have up, esp Google as they use your real name. Google also lets you see a map of someone’s review locations, giving anyone who cares to look a solid triangulation of your home and what days you go to certain places. Tighten up your tech, and ask hubby to do the same. Thanks for coming into the field, we need more great people!

          Reply ↓
  3. Overthinking It*

    Regarding #3: is it possible that “folks who aren’t working” refers to people who are clocked in, but just don’t have much going on at thr moment? (I mean, the phrasing there is pretty vague.) Or, is it possible that’s the way management intended the chat to work, but the operatives on the ground got it wrong, because it goes to everyone,whether on the clock or not?

    Reply ↓
      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        the coworker may be misunderstanding the situation. They may be salaried people who are stepping up. Or they may be putting in their time but coworker assumes they are not. Or coworker is one of those people who think off the clock work is expected, helpful to one’s career, etc.

        It’s OP’s first week and they don’t even know if coworker is a reliable source or a pot stirrer. Let OP get some more time under their belt then re-assess the situation.

        Reply ↓
    2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      That’s what I thought it meant. I think the OP should ask someone higher up (an not the original person) on how this system works.

      Reply ↓
    3. Rosemary*

      That is what I was wondering. Like they are clocked in for their 8 hour day or whatever, and they just don’t have a lot of their “own” tasks to do at the moment.

      Reply ↓
    4. Laser99*

      I got nervous just reading that. I suspect it’s the type of place where working off the clock is expected, and if you don’t, you are “not a team player.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Princess Sparklepony*

        Exactly. It’s how I got fired in retail. I was a department head. The powers that be do not like any pushback when they suggested that people work on their dump piles (the stuff that got tried on but not bought) after they clock out. Dumb me said – That’s illegal in California. (Where we were located.) I was fired two days later for not being a “team player.” On the plus side, there was a huge lawsuit about it a few years later and the store lost.

        Reply ↓
    5. Kay*

      To be honest, that was precisely what I thought until Alison commented. If the LW is new there is too high a possibility that IS what the co-worker meant and getting it wrong could be a really bad move, complaining about teamwork essentially.

      Reply ↓
  4. Pumpkin cat*

    Just want to note that the linked story in #4 (about the woman who goes to the mall and changes her hair midday) is still, and probably always will be, my favorite story ever published here. I wish I could meet her, I still have so many questions.

    Reply ↓
    1. ChurchOfDietCoke*

      Same! I was telling a new colleague about AAM just last week and this was the story I linked her to!

      Reply ↓
      1. Lenora Rose*

        Yes. letter 1 is where it all seems a bit wild, and a bit careless of the dates involved, but fully a professional norm, and easily resolved, possibly even by letting it be *aside from* external client visits.

        The update went fully off the rails.

        Reply ↓
    4. toolegittoresign*

      I think about it a lot because I always wondered why no one had even had a casual conversation with Michelle about it and it made me suspect perhaps aspects of the letter were exaggerated or not true. I have blue hair right now. It’s been pink, purple and other colors. People ask about it at work A LOT. Where do I get it done, how long does it take, how long does it last, how do touch ups work, what made me choose that color, etc. I don’t change it that often — maybe once or twice a year. But people talk about it as if I change it every week. I remain skeptical that no one at all knew what was up with Michelle’s choices.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        I just re-read the original letter and it sounds like people at the office did have casual conversations about her hair changes:

        I have heard her telling others she prefers to get her hair and nails done on her breaks because the mall is so convenient and she doesn’t have to do it after work or on weekends. … She says she puts her old clothes in a donation bin at the mall and has told people she will buy things at the thrift store near her home for the purpose of wearing to work on days when she is going to buy new stuff at the mall.

        My assumption is that Michelle was telling others about her routine in response to questions about it (“where do you get your hair done?”, “why at this mall and not another one?”, etc.), but I suppose it is possible that she just started sharing details out of the blue.

        Reply ↓
      2. Myrin*

        I’m not sure I understand what you mean – that OP dedicates a whole paragraph to Michelle explaining about her hair and clothes, so it’s not like it was some sort of taboo topic at that office and people did indeed casually chat about it.

        Reply ↓
      3. BatManDan*

        A lot of folks seemed to have skipped over that the dress code allowed for “natural hair colors.” When she got her hair done blue, she meant it to be a clear sign (along the with the COMPLETELY unbuttoned blouse) that she would no longer be working there.

        Reply ↓
      4. Lenora Rose*

        Once a month isn’t that often, in the long run; I think the day she did so during a client meeting day was a bit out of step but it’s not that bad; she might not have been able to move the appointment, though she perhaps ought to have tried. And if she comes in in the morning with her hair unstyled and minimal makeup… that seems like what you would want to do right before a major salon appointment? And coming back from the salon fully decked out… is what happens. The clothes shopping bit is where I really blink; buying a whole new outfit and donating the clothes off your back on the spot?

        Reply ↓
    5. Michigander*

      I had never read it before and it was fascinating. “Please don’t completely change your appearance in the middle of client meeting” is such a benign request to quit over.

      Reply ↓
  5. Pickles*

    For #2 are you sure you are ready for this. I’ve worked in similar organizations and nothing like you described was in place. No one had panic buttons at home but people weren’t having plan Bs for holidays either.
    People used good safety strategies but also weren’t the usual target of potential violence. It was the clients who were in serious danger.

    Reply ↓
    1. Anon for this*

      If #2 is in a town rather than a city, she is not overreacting or being naive. A close friend eventually had to leave the town entirely (and now works in a similar role in a city) because everybody knew who she was and it was making her teenage kids a target. She made some serious security changes for the next person in her job.

      Reply ↓
    2. MK*

      I don’t think OP is overestimating the risks. I do however wonder whether she is ready for the job too, because she is focusing on herself way too much, in my opinion. She acknowledges that knowing whatever happened in the past doesn’t really mean anything, but she still wants to know (despite the privacy and legal concerns) because it will make her feel better? She expects them to reveal their security measures to someone who doesn’t work there, and also her family, do they can decide together? And she seems to think her happiness and excitement for the job is of paramount importance.

      Prioritizing your safety in a job of this kind is reasonable. Prioritizing your feelings, not so much.

      Reply ↓
      1. Spooz*

        I disagree. I think she is thinking about the job realistically and seriously and not going in with starry eyes and rose tinted glasses. I do think that her excitement on getting a job offer should not be a factor, but as a hirer I would be encouraged to know that she appreciated the difficulties that came with the job and wanted to think them through properly.

        If they won’t discuss it until she has an offer, I wonder if she could say back at this stage something along the lines of, “I appreciate that you don’t want to discuss your security measures at this stage, and I’m happy to wait until the offer stage. However, it would mean that I would want longer than usual to think the offer over. I’m really excited about the job and I want to make sure I’m coming in with my eyes wide open so I can be successful in the role for many years to come.” Just to flag it up so that she then can feel happier taking all the time she needs before responding.

        Reply ↓
        1. MK*

          Maybe. I admit I find the tone of the letter grating and I could be doing OP an injustice.

          That being said, I am not sure why she absolutely needs all this information beforehand. She seems to have a very comprehensive idea about what the security measures might entail; she can sit down with her family and discuss several eventualities and whatever deal breakers they might have, or what they would need to do to protect themselves, it’s not actually necessary to wait till you have all the specifics. It sounds as if she thinks she needs their uinput to evaluate the danger, even while admitting that’s not something that can be assessed, as it can change immediately.

          Reply ↓
          1. ecnaseener*

            I do think you’re doing OP an injustice. It doesn’t do anybody any favors if OP takes the job without having really thought it through and ends up leaving quickly. Deprioritizing their feelings at this stage would be a bad idea.

            Reply ↓
            1. Blueberry*

              I don’t think this is about deprioritizing LW’s feelings—it’s about prioritizing the safety of the residents who already live there.

              Reply ↓
          2. sparkle emoji*

            I don’t think it’s that she thinks she needs their input to evaluate the danger. I think she wants to ensure whatever family members that would be effected(spouse, nieces, etc.) are okay with the changes that are likely to be needed. She needs to know the level of danger that has happened in the past to get a ballpark for what changes and precautions are needed. It’s a more dramatic version someone considering a relocation for a role and asking their kids and spouse if they’re okay moving to Kansas. The past won’t be a perfect predictor, but it’s the best option available.

            Reply ↓
            1. Precautious*

              It’s not clear to me that a list of the past issues would help OP, because they already know that this work can lead to very dangerous issues, even if that one shelter hasn’t experienced them yet. The only thing this might tell OP is if the shelter has encountered some dangerous issues, in which case they might take the precautions more seriously.

              Reply ↓
              1. Hannah Lee*

                Though the past issues might be useful for LW to think through the kinds of things that might happen in more detail, I got the sense that the most important part of the “what kind of dangers, risks has the previous person in this role faced” discussion is the “… and how does the organization handle them, what policies are in place to the reduce the risk to employees’ and their families when”

                It could be anything from enhanced safeguarding of personal information and the physical work premises to standard issue panic buttons, to special protocols when there is a known elevated risk situation.

                Or it could be a case where the organization has not had any issues in the past and is a bit cavalier about risks and precautions.

                Any and all of that would be important information for OP to have before deciding whether to accept the job.

                Reply ↓
              2. Aggretsuko*

                Honestly, it’s 2025. Violence, stalking, doxxing, screaming, etc. are breaking out all over the place. OP should probably reasonably assume that the worst likely things are likely to happen in this position and plan as if they might, even if they can’t find out ahead of time how well/poorly the organization will support them.

                Reply ↓
          3. Sloanicota*

            It’s true that she could put a plan to implement what she felt were reasonable and field-standard practices if she finds the ones in place aren’t sufficient, after she starts. Good point.

            Reply ↓
            1. Frosty*

              My question would then be: is the workplace helping to organize and finance these safety measures? It’s asking a lot of extra labour & money to create a family safety plan and to purchase safety “buttons”, bullet-proof vests or build panic rooms etc.

              OP might be aware of what is considered industry-standard but might also need some direction on what that is. It’s not unreasonable to want to know these asnwers.

              Reply ↓
              1. Sloanicota*

                I have to say, I really don’t think a personal home safe room is going to be the industry standard, but I suppose I’m prepared to be wrong.

                Reply ↓
                1. Flat Margaret*

                  You’re not wrong. As someone who works in this field, anyone who thinks a personal home safe room is something they should be provided is not someone who is ready for this job. Besides it being truly unnecessary, these programs are severally underfunded. No one has money to put a panic room in someone’s house. That is a wild request.

              2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

                Yeah, my first question was: who does LW expect to be paying for this? If they expect to pay the tens of thousands themselves to build e.g. a panic room, that’s one thing. But the domestic violence shelters I’ve worked with operate on extremely tight budgets, and the idea of spending that much money on home protective measures for employees would go over like a lead balloon.

                Reply ↓
                1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

                  I read that as a hyperbolic example of the most extreme end of a security measure. I don’t think OP expects a panic room and I don’t think we need to pick apart their letter to this degree.

                  If they’ve advanced to this point in the hiring process, they likely have a very realistic, qualified understanding of the potential risks of this specific job in this specific environment.

                2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

                  I’m taking the LW at her word. As you say, she’s the one who knows the situation best, and she is the one who brought up panic rooms.

                3. Dahlia*

                  If we’re taking her at her word, then we should take her at the whole paragraph, where she described two extremes, and said nothing about the workplace paying for that.

          4. Elephant*

            She says that the reason she wants the information now is to avoid pressure and to feel excited. I agree with MK. These don’t seem to like good reasons to share security information. I’ve worked in a shelter and I understand how the LW feels, but I’d also argue that her feelings of comfort and joy and not a priority.

            “ If they offer me the job and then we talk about the safety risks then, I think it will take away a lot of joy and excitement as I’ll immediately go into the necessary worst case planning with my family before I make the decision. Plus I’ll feel pressured to decide quickly so they can let the other candidates know. If they just tell me now, my husband and I can work it through together, and then I could pull out of the final step if needed — although I don’t think I would — and if I was offered the job I could square my shoulders, take a deep breath, and say “I’d love to!””

            Reply ↓
            1. Blueberry*

              The one piece of this I can understand is the part about feeling pressured to make a decision on short notice – that could be a legitimate issue if there a lot of potential dealbreakers that might not come to light until the last minute. But LW can address that now by asking about the timeline following a potential offer, and letting the interviewers know that they may need a bit longer to think about it than they typically would. (My guess is that the hiring committee knows to expect this, since presumably other job candidates have had the same issue.)

              But yeah, the part about joy and excitement isn’t a big enough issue to bring up with the hiring committee. Of course they want to hire a candidate who’s excited about the job, but that can’t take priority over their confidentiality policy.

              Reply ↓
        2. Sacred Ground*

          If an employer refuses to answer questions about a safety concern until after making an offer, I would assume it’s because the safety situation is much worse than usual and they’re being cagey about it.

          I get that they don’t want to discuss their safety measures with outsiders, that’s fair. But here they are trying to hire someone for the actually dangerous position of public target, the person the safety measures are there to protect. It’s perfectly reasonable to discuss the risks and mitigation of the risk with the person you’re expecting to take on that risk.

          Reply ↓
          1. RagingADHD*

            But a job candidate is an outsider until they have been given an offer. We have no idea how short the short-list is, or whether they have already done background checks, checked references, and done other vetting.

            A decision about which candidate to trust with security information is part of the final decision to offer the job.

            Reply ↓
          2. MK*

            I don’t think that’s a reasonable assumption in this case, as the “safety situation” is something that is subject to change. Things could be relatively normal, and the day after OP starts a woman trying to escape a homicidal partner could come in. OP herself admits this.

            And they are prepared to discuss these issues with the person they are expecting 5o take on the job. OP is not currently that person, they are just a candidate.

            Reply ↓
          3. Blueberry*

            I think in a case like this, it’s reasonable not to discuss specifics until an offer is on the table. Domestic violence shelters are very, very secretive about their security systems, because it can be a serious risk to their residents’ safety if that information ends up in the wrong hands. The fewer people who know, the better. And that’s not just about the residents’ safety; it’s also for the safety of whoever ends up getting the job.

            If they make LW an offer and then push them to accept it right away, then yeah, I’d be worried that they have something to hide. But if they give them adequate time to think it over once they have the full picture, I don’t think that’s a red flag—if anything, it shows that they take this stuff really seriously.

            Reply ↓
    3. cardozolaw*

      Agreed. The writer makes it sounds like she thinks she needs Secret Service protection. It’s so overblown. My wife did this job for years and we never had a problem. We had problems making sure the real victims were safe but never any making sure she was.

      Reply ↓
      1. Xeniati*

        “We had problems making sure the real victims were safe”

        This is exactly it. The spectre of violence is constant in women’s shelters, IME, but it’s because the residents of the shelter have overwhelmingly been victims of violence and *their* safety is at risk.

        Reply ↓
        1. MK*

          I agree. The only cases I know when someone working at a an organization like OP describes was harmed are ones when they were in the way of an abuser trying to harm their victim, not because they were personally targeted. Which isn’t to say it can’t happen, of course.

          Reply ↓
      2. Tippy*

        Agree. As someone wh has worked for a women’s shelter, I sympathize with the LW’s concern but this “The police will arrange a panic alarm in your home, car, and personal ones for you, your husband, and kids. They’ll also advise on how we can adapt a room in your house to be a panic room.” is a wildly unrealistic concern when looking at the type and level of funding most of these shelters operate under. Many of these places can barely afford to keep the doors open, paying for panic buttons/response (and a panic room!!) for staffs families is not ever going to happen.

        Reply ↓
        1. ThatGirl*

          I have no idea if the LW is overreacting or not, but I didn’t read that as her expecting the shelter to pay for a panic room, just advise on a way to adapt a room in her house if possible. I don’t know if a panic button is something that would cost, but priority police response is not a paid service; it would be something to work out with the police.

          Reply ↓
          1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

            Yeah, I didn’t think that the OP was asking for anything to be paid. I’m not entireley sure but I would assume that the priority police would just be a list. Like if this location or this phone number calls dispatch should send police regardless. Similar how (at least years ago) you could register your phone number if someone in the household had a medical condition. We did this for my grandpa and 5 year old me learned the hard way about this when I called 911 and hung up.

            Reply ↓
            1. Oniya*

              Oh, that doesn’t take registration. I was at a get-together with some friends, and a small child was playing downstairs and watching a Disney movie. Suddenly, the police knocked at the door, asked if there was a problem – and we all discovered that the child had knocked the phone off the hook and had managed to hit some of the buttons while dancing around. Two buttons near the edge in particular, one of them twice.

              Reply ↓
              1. Vimto*

                “Two buttons near the edge in particular, one of them twice.”
                is it that you don’t want to dox emergency services, that you’ve phrased it like this?

                Reply ↓
              2. Rayray*

                Anyone can call emergency services and everyone knows it doesn’t require special registration. The person you responded to was talking about voluntary registries that exist in some areas where a person’s medical conditions can be registered to provide details to dispatchers.

                Reply ↓
        2. Calamity Janine*

          not going to lie, the biggest reason i don’t think that would work is far more simple and more depressing: it depends on the police actually being appropriate first responders who are there to protect the person running the women’s shelter and to protect against that type of violence in general.

          this is… um… a worthy goal that i wish were a universal truth we could all trust in, let’s say… but not one that i would actually put my full faith into for such extensive plans.

          Reply ↓
        3. Dahlia*

          The LW is literally saying they want to know what IS realistic. They don’t know, so they’re speculating and naming two extreme ends of a spectrum as an example.

          This is really nitpicking.

          Reply ↓
        4. Sweet Fancy Pancakes*

          The letter writer gave that as an example of one extreme end of a spectrum, you only quoted the end of their sentence, which begins with “There’s a huge difference between…” and then goes on to describe a fairly tame scenario and ending with the thing about the panic room. I don’t think they are actually asking for a panic room to be installed.

          Reply ↓
    4. Xeniati*

      I work in my city’s shelter system as a frontline worker and I admit, I was a bit puzzled by #2. The commenter who replied to you and suggested this might be a case of LW2 living in a town rather than a city does make sense to me – I’m in a big city; I don’t know what the situation is like in shelters in small towns – but “panic room” does still sound like a lot. In my workplace (which does, like the place LW2 is interviewing with, work with unhoused women), I don’t believe any of the higher-ups have been targets of violence or threats, and if they have, it hasn’t been to nearly the same degree as the frontline workers. When someone has been assaulted or threatened or stalked in my workplace, it’s been a frontline worker, not a manager or anyone who might be described as the face of the organization. But I guess I’m thinking about violence from service users or police, and it sounds like LW2 might be more concerned about people who object to the women’s shelter for political/ideological reasons?

      Reply ↓
      1. Xeniati*

        Uh, and to clarify, because I see above people are pulling out the old “unhoused women are violent” chestnut, the frontline workers experience less violence than the service users in my workplace. By a long shot. When I said “when someone has been assaulted or threatened or stalked in my workplace,” I actually should have said “when an employee has”. In terms of who is most at risk of experiencing violence, it’s: service users >>>>> frontline workers >>>>> lower-level management >>>>>>>>>>>> upper management.

        Reply ↓
        1. Jackalope*

          In my area the term “women’s shelter” is specifically for women who have been victims of domestic violence and are trying to escape their abusers, not just a place for homeless women. Based on the rest of the letter I think that’s what the LW is referring to as well, and that’s why she’s concerned. Anyone staying in a DV shelter is going to be at high risk of having someone violent coming after her, and that can spill out onto the staff as well. (It sounds like you are already aware of this aspect of DV shelters but I’m including it for others who might not be.)

          Reply ↓
          2. Xeniati*

            FWIW, I don’t work specifically in a DV shelter (we call them VAW shelters here), but a large majority of our residents still have experienced intimate partner violence recently. DV shelters are specifically for people who have recently experienced that kind of violence, but other shelters, especially other shelters restricted only to women, will deal with a lot of the same issues.

            Reply ↓
      2. Bella Ridley*

        No, I believe the LW is concerned about violence from the type of people from whom women accessing the shelter are fleeing from. I live in a small town and there is exactly one women’s shelter. If a woman is fleeing from a dangerous spouse and seeking out the women’s shelter, while her spouse won’t know where it is, I can see a dangerous person seeking out the public face of the shelter, either as a proxy or because they think by intimidating or harming that person, they will gain access to their former partner.

        Reply ↓
        1. The Rural Juror*

          In the large city where I live, there are 3 or 4 shelters just with the organization where I usually donate. I think you make a good point that a small town with only 1 location, and therefore little choice for those fleeing a dangerous situation, everyone involved would be at higher risk.

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        2. Xeniati*

          Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I did consider the possibility that LW was specifically worried about violence from the residents’ abusers, and obviously they mentioned in their letter that this is THE (presumably only) women’s shelter in their area, but somehow it didn’t click for me that one possible location = way easier to find the place she’s likely to be staying and target it. Thanks for explaining it to me. That definitely would be a big difference between my context and that of a small town.

          Reply ↓
      3. YetAnotherAnalyst*

        In a small city (population ~45k) that I lived in for several years, there was a women’s shelter at an undisclosed location, essentially a safehouse for women to stay while their domestic violence cases worked their way through the courts. I believe their spokeswoman did get stalked a few times by the exes of some of the residents, as she was the only publicly-identifiable employee.

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      4. eloise*

        Yeah, as someone who has lived in a toxic small town, I think personal threats of violence are more likely there than in a big city. When everyone is in everyone’s business, and everyone knows where you live, the risks are different. Big cities might mean more chances of random interactions but small towns can get personal.

        Of course, it’s impossible to say what the actual risks are to OP. I’m glad they’re thinking things through seriously, though.

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    5. Security-adjacent*

      My job has some similar concerns about certain positions, so I’ve seen a range of options employed in situations like this one, and the OP is wise to be thinking ahead.

      I advise that the OP decide what measures would make her comfortable enough to take the position and then make that environment be the one she walks into. If she wants panic buttons, tell the employer she’ll take the job as long as those are part of the deal. Learn more about the security measures that would be useful and go ahead and implement them regardless of the experience of her predecessor (no more holidays at her house, or visits from relatives). She’ll need new approaches to social media for her kids, self-defense tools like pepper spray, and other precautions. I’ve seen situations where volunteers accompany the principal on all routine transportation — the idea being to never go out alone. At my job, certain principals get paid security, including transportation, to and from work — it doesn’t sound as if this employer goes this far, but some do.

      She is to be admired for her willingness to take on some personal risk and make changes to her lifestyle to do this important work.

      Reply ↓
      1. Blueberry*

        Yes, and I think LW can decide where their line is before they know what the job will actually entail. For instance, they can decide that they’ll take the job on the condition that there’s no history of people in the role being harassed in public or in their homes, but they’ll decline the offer or ask for more time to think about it if those things are likely to be issues. Of course there may end up being risks they hadn’t considered, but it’s still a good idea to have a mental list of what their biggest dealbreakers would be.

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      2. Festively Dressed Earl*

        This +100. When you can’t get all the details about a risk involving other parties, decide for yourself what you’re willing to live with, what you can mitigate on your own, and what measures other people (i.e. the employer) would need to take. Write down what those boundaries are, then wait to see what the other person says. If the answers they give you are compatible, great. If not, walk away instead of letting your boundaries become porous.

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    6. Joielle*

      I’m glad folks with experience in this field are chiming in on this thread, because I had the same reaction. This seemed over the top to me. I used to work in a field that can be dangerous in what I imagine is a similar way – public defense. We had attorneys threatened by families of clients, families of victims, and random people who don’t believe those charged with serious crimes should have good representation. To be honest, anyone asking if they could have a panic button would have been laughed out of the room. There wasn’t money for that kind of thing – and if there was money, it would have been spent on hiring more lawyers to provide better service to the clients. I know some people spent their own money on upgraded home security, but that wouldn’t have been something the office got involved in.

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      1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

        Yeah, when we prosecuted gang crimes we had to warn defense counsel a few times about victim’s families. Usually they’d leave the systems people out of it and retaliate directly though. I never thought about people being angry enough that the public defenders exist that they would harass you. As a victim advocate I had complaints with the PUDs sometimes but my goodness, it’s only fair that everyone have representation.

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      2. Jane*

        I work in a “front line with general public” type nonprofit job….I am not sure it would have even occurred to me to think about danger to me or my family if I were interviewing for a job at a women’s shelter. I’d definitely expect the shelter to have a silent call button and some kind of established safety protocol but like, I’d probably expect the same thing at a pharmacy or downtown McDonald’s. Maybe that’s naive but I find OP’s level of concern really strange.

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  6. Daria grace*

    #4 please don’t feel bad about having fun with your wigs. That sounds like such a cool style tool to play with. The only thing I’d suggest is maybe not making super drastic changes in the first week or two of new people you’ll be working somewhat closely with to make it easier for them to remember who is who

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    1. Zelda*

      There’s also the chance that someone you’ll be working with regularly has face blindness– IIRC, recognizing people’s hairstyles is a common workaround. In that (unlikely, but not impossible) case, it would be kind to lay off the changes.

      Reply ↓
      1. JSPA*

        I was going to suggest wearing some distinctive article (pin, fancy belt, whatever) if their build / way of moving / speech / style are not distinctive enough for face-blind coworker to clock who they are. Hairstyle is super-useful, but it’s not the only way to get around face-blindness. Also, If she has a private office or assigned desk, ” The person at Nancy’s desk is probably Nancy” is a lot easier than in a hotdesk or shop floor or rover situation.

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      2. AndreaJ*

        I think face blindness is actually more widespread that we think it is, partially because it’s a spectrum and partially because most of the time there are other clues that we can use.

        That said, LW4: I think it’s totally fine to embrace the joy that your changing wigs give you in most offices. If you have a distinctive voice, style of dress, or way that you see/greet people in the office, most of the face blind people will probably be using other context clues.

        But you might not know that most face blind people don’t know that they’re face blind. We get around the world reasonably well by relying on other clues pretty effectively! So if they don’t know that the way they visually identify people is outside of the norm, then they can’t tell you why they’re uncomfortable with your changing wigs, and might pin it on the fact that you’re the one who is acting outside of the norm. If you can have a plan for making that a friendly conversation in advance, it might help with some frustrations with how people react.

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        1. Apparently face blind*

          I didn’t realise how face blind I am until I was in my 30s – so while I now know why I would likely struggle with someone changing wigs, in the past I definitely wouldn’t have been able to put a finger on it. (That said, I would have just been deeply embarrassed at my inability to recognise someone after what should be an insignificant change rather than put anything on them, but of course everyone is different!)

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        2. Tea Monk*

          Nod. I am a little face blind and people come up and talk to me that I don’t recognize all the time. People think I’m just rude but explaining it won’t help

          Reply ↓
          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Disagree that explaining won’t help. If someone is a reasonable person and you explain that you have a hard time with recognizing faces, they might understand. You don’t have to get into the whole face-blindness thing and what it is and a scientific explanation, but a quick explanation might help in some cases.

            For instance, if you explained it to me, I would totally understand. In my past, I remember several people who I always thought were rude because they never waved or said hello when I passed them at school or wherever, but once I learned about face blindness, I was like, Ohhhh, that probably is what they have! And now I don’t think of them as rude anymore.

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        3. Great Frogs of Literature*

          I spent a while living in a country where wigs are very common, and for a while felt embarrassed that I could not reliably identify the women who lived in the same building I did… until I realized that I could identify them just fine if I heard them through a window; it was the hairstyles that were throwing me.

          Which is not to say that OP shouldn’t change her wigs… just realize that if she has a slightly-off conversation in the break room or somewhere else that’s similarly lacking in context, it may be because the person she’s talking to knows they should recognize her but can’t figure out who she is!

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          1. nona*

            This is where I land. I don’t think you need to have a pre-emptive conversation about face-blindness, mostly because it feels a little weird and many people might not know what you’re talking about, but you do need to be prepared for a lot of “oh my gosh, i didn’t recognize you”, and have a little “oh yeah, its the hair. I’ve been rotating thru my wigs so they all get some love” ready to go.

            If you get that a lot, maybe switch up the wigs every week, instead of every day, so that the reset happens at with the start of the week, when everyone is getting back into work mode.

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      3. Elly*

        Yeah, I’m a bit face blind (and didn’t realise this until I was in my late 20s!) and it’s not something I usually tell people off the bat.

        I would, if I’m honest, find it quite distressing if one of my coworkers was coming to work with different hair every day, unless there was some other feature I could rely on to identify them (e.g. height, or a tendency to always wear the same shoes!).

        I always joke that I’m a big fan of racially diverse casting in film and tv because it makes it much easier to identify characters on-screen – I really struggle with things like netflix Christmas romcoms, because the men all look the same!

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        1. Emmy Noether*

          I have the same problem of men looking way too similar. There are 10 men in my team at work, and if I had to describe one of them to you in a way that you could pick him out of a team lineup, I would have trouble. Like, I think three of them are a bit taller than the others, and two have hair that’s just short, not very short, but other than that… nobody even has facial hair! (Yes, we desperately need more diversity in hiring, for many reasons more important than me telling my colleagues apart, but that would be a bonus).

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        2. MusicWithRocksIn*

          I’m not face blind, but struggle with remembering people’s names and get very flustered when starting a new job because there are so many names to remember. I’ve gotten burned by this (almost) exact situation before. Started a new job, Cindy had the desk kitty corner from me, straight blond hair, easy to remember, move on. Then two days later this lady with short dark curly hair is sitting there and no one is fricken talking about what happened to Cindy or where she went or who the new girl is. Cue me freaking out the whole day because I don’t know this person’s name, until finally she’s telling someone the story about how her wig got soaked at a concert the night before so she was giving up on it. I blamed no one but myself and eventually told her the story because I thought it was hilarious.

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        3. NotAnotherManager!*

          I had this problem with the Lord of the Rings movies. All the non-Hobbit guys looked pretty much the same to me (and there’s no way I could keep all those names that sounded the same straight either).

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          1. Nightengale*

            This is why I am a Trekie and never got into Star Wars

            I tried to watch Star Wars in college (1990s) and couldn’t tell Luke Skywalker from Han Solo. Afterwards a friend loaned me the novelization so at least now I know the basics of what happened.

            I got into Star Trek Next Generation around the same time and the characters looked really different – only two white men wearing red and one had a Shakespearean delivery.

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        4. Annie2*

          Me too, and specifically with the men of Netflix! Truly interchangeable. I think the OP should be aware that she might have some colleagues who won’t recognize her right away with different hair every day, but that’s really not the end of the world.

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        5. Freya*

          My major hobby is partner dancing, and my primary way of identifying people is by how they walk or move while dancing, or how they hold themselves when standing. I can barely identify people by their faces, but their body movements are Very Distinctive.

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      4. Transatlantic*

        This is a good call. If OP4 wears glasses or another distinctive accessory, then that could be her identifier. I have some degree of face blindness and the wigs may make it harder for me (but once used to it, I would 100% love them). But I can easily remember OP4 is the one with the cool red glasses or something.

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      5. Retired Accountant*

        Maybe the people with face blindness could manage their own issues and not inflect their Main Character Syndrome on the OP. Who probably has enough to deal with.

        Reply ↓
        1. Sam I Am Not*

          The people with face blindness are saying that she should go for it and have some fun. It’s hardly main character energy to then point out that it will cause confusion for some people in her office, and suggest tips to alleviate it. OP can ignore it. OP might also find it interesting… and realise why some of her colleagues will walk right past her!

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        2. Noriarty*

          I don’t think that’s really fair. It comes up frequently enough that OP should expect to encounter it, even when not client facing.
          Maybe it means they will choose to be more consistent in their wig choices, or have another recognizable visual cue, or they will just be prepared to say ‘hey Bob, it’s me, OP’, every week.

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        3. Guacamole Bob*

          I don’t think this is quite fair. Most people here are telling OP to go for it, but making the very reasonable point that some folks may have a harder time recognizing her.

          If OP is in a job where she mostly works with a small group of people regularly, then this is likely a non-issue, or if she’s dealing with one-off customer inquiries or similar where she doesn’t have an ongoing relationship. If she works with clients, or has recurring tasks with a large number of people in person or on video then it could be more of an issue where people don’t recognize her. For example, I work with consultant teams where I might see folks only a handful of times over the course of a year-long project, and it would be very easy for me to not recognize someone with drastically different hair from meeting to meeting.

          Not a reason not to enjoy the wigs, probably! But it’s a fair thing to point out to OP as she thinks about how many and what styles of wigs to choose from.

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        4. Courageous cat*

          lol, I have mild face blindness and I think that’s perfectly fair – not surprised others disagree, but still. Face blindness is *not* that common and also, when it is, often *not* that big of a deal. It is very main character syndrome to complain about something like this in comparison to the struggle of having, what sounds like, incurable cancer.

          I sometimes struggle recognizing people when they change their hair and I would still be perfectly capable of dealing with this with very little genuine hardship on my end, especially when she’s going through much more.

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      6. Rogue Slime Mold*

        I think if the job was client-facing, to repeat clients, it could be an issue. But in an office I can learn “Janice sits to the left of the printer” if “Janice has chin-length brown hair” doesn’t work here.

        Recognizing hair styles is a common work around, but there are other indicators to latch onto.

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        1. Muscadine*

          I could learn ‘the person whose hair I don’t recognize, is probably Janice again!’ As long as I’m not the one in a client-facing role…

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      7. Lily Rowan*

        I wouldn’t describe myself as faceblind at all, but there are definitely people I mostly recognize by their hair! Which I have realized when they changed it significantly, wore a wig for a costume, etc.

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      8. ArtsNerd*

        I was actually going to say “this is awesome! Please do it! AND also be kind to coworkers who might not recognize you, or consider keeping something noticeable constant about your appearance to give them something to recognize you by.”

        I’m on the more mild end of the face-blindness spectrum, fwiw.

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    2. A little moderation*

      I thought something similar. People rarely make drastical changes to hairstyle/color on a daily basis and OP should avoid that people are just talking about what wig she will use that day, instead of her work or nice personality.

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      1. Scrimp*

        If she’s got life-long chemo, I would imagine that people discussing what wig she might wear next wouldn’t really be a problem.

        Furthermore, people can talk about a unique aspect of someone and still acknowledge their great work ethic. It isn’t typically a zero sum discussion.

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        1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

          We often discuss not being known for the wrong thing even when that thing is a nice thing (eg being the one who brings in cookies on Thursdays).

          Once you’ve already built a professional reputation then it becomes an additional point of interest people know about you (Susan is a whizz with pivot tables *and* enjoys skiing, Wakeen can soothe the wildest client *and* wears pink on Wednesdays). But if you’re new, as LW is, there’s a risk it becomes what people know about you *instead of* your work.

          Which is not to say LW shouldn’t express herself through her wigs. Just that it’s not unreasonable for her to consider easing into the frequent changes.

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          1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

            1. She’s a known quantity at work already. Once your work is already known, you can ease up a bit on being only about work. If she were starting somewhere new, definitely don’t do the new wigs every day thing for a while.

            2. It’s known at work about her cancer. While everyone who does chemo does not lose their hair, and not permanently, its something associated with chemo. People know OP, know her situation, they are going to understand about the wigs.

            In other words, have fun with the wigs OP. After what you’ve been through, you deserve to have a little fun.

            Reply ↓
            1. A little moderation*

              I didn’t realize OP was already working there (maybe it was too early!). OP, absolutely go for the wigs!

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      2. MusicWithRocksIn*

        I’m sure people will lose interest fairly quickly. It’s three or four wigs, not that princess from Return to Oz who had thirty heads and chose a different one every day. Once everyone sees all the wigs ‘oh hey OP is a redhead today’ won’t be too much different than ‘Oh Rachel is wearing a bun today’.

        Reply ↓
        1. Sloanicota*

          Yeah, if it were me, I might rotate between wigs on more like a monthly basis, or maybe weekly, but honestly if OP wants to mix it up every day and that brings her joy I say go for it.

          Reply ↓
          1. Landry*

            Yeah, I was thinking maybe a weekly rotation instead of a daily one might be helpful for everyone involved.

            Reply ↓
        2. NotAnotherManager!*

          I have two coworkers who frequently change their wigs/hairstyles, and this is pretty much how I view it. I also know both of them change their hair frequently, so I’ve learned to identify them by other characteristics.

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        3. commensally*

          As someone with moderate difficulty telling people with the same hairstyle apart: if it’s half a dozen wigs or whatever and they’re all pretty distinctive, it wouldn’t cause me any more difficulty than the person who sometimes has a ponytail and sometimes wears their hair down and sometimes has an updo; you learn the different hairstyles reasonably quickly.

          If it’s “I could go a month at a time without wearing the same wig twice”… maybe not.

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            1. commensally*

              Look, I’m not judging! Even at a couple thousand dollars each, enough for one a month would be about the price of a new car, and not everybody needs a new car – if it brings LW joy, go for it. Just I will never get their name right is all.

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              1. iglwif*

                Literally cannot imagine having enough money to own a month’s worth of wigs. But 10000% agree that LW should do what brings her joy!! Cancer is horrible, chemo is horrible, and those of us who have survived it deserve joyful things.

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    3. NothingIsLittle*

      I have experience with this! Someone in my high school classes had a medical condition that caused hair loss and alternated between three wigs of similar styles but very different colors (black, brown with highlights, and wine red). Less than half of our classmates noticed enough to realize they were wigs. I once mentioned them to someone who said, “Classmate wears wigs?” even though her hair was a different color every day.

      OP 4: I’d start with similar styles and colors to see if anyone says anything, or maybe ask a trusted senior coworker, but otherwise have fun. People are unlikely to consciously notice.

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    4. Certaintroublemaker*

      Also, be aware that some people have moderate to severe face blindness and may rely on things like hair color/style to recognize you. So if someone you’ve worked with a lot looks right past you, trying to find “LW4,” be ready to explain, that’s you!

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    5. Strive to Excel*

      The only caveat I thought about is that people are going to be curious about why the wigs, so the chemo is likely to come out. If OP is fine with repeating “oh, I lost my hair from health issues, so I decided to make the best of it!” on a semi-regular basis, great! But if they’d rather not have that conversation frequently maybe limit the wig changes at work. Polite people *shouldn’t* ask, but people will ask.

      Reply ↓
    6. Aggretsuko*

      Oh, a coworker of mine wears wigs in and she still has her hair. I’m guessing nobody has an issue with it here :)

      Reply ↓
  7. A manager, but not your manager*

    For #5, I went through a major layoff a year ago as a manager. Even if one of my reports had been spared, I would have been happy to be a reference for them and hopefully get them some more job security at the next place.

    Reply ↓
    1. OP#5*

      Thanks for the input, and I’m very grateful to have gotten the answer that I’m overthinking this!

      I guess I’m just feeling awkward because the person I worked for longest has been going out of his way to reassure me that I’m “one of the most secure positions in the building” and clearly doesn’t want me to leave yet (even though he’s being laid off), and the person I worked for most recently is very vocally done with this place and everything about it.

      But I accept that this is a me problem, and they will probably feel less awkward about it than I do.

      Reply ↓
  8. MSD*

    I’m curious what being the public face of a woman’s shelter means. I’ve never seen them advertised or heard a spokesperson in the media.

    Reply ↓
    1. linger*

      And yet there must be some public-facing media presence (phone line, website, email address) that (i) women can use to access shelter, and that (ii) others can use to donate.
      Otherwise, what is the point?

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    2. Emmy Noether*

      I was thinking the same thing, so I googled the women’s shelter for my city. There is a website and the name of the director is fairly easy to find. She’s the public face in the sense that she issues statements, gets interviewed by the press, accepts large donations where the donor wants it to be public, etc. There are photos and video of her directly on the website.

      I’m in Europe, so because of data protection, it should be fairly easy for her to keep her address and phone number private. The location of the shelter is confidential anyway. That wouldn’t keep someone from randomly recognizing her on the street, of course (probably a good idea to keep her office separate from the actual shelter, so she doesn’t get followed there?)

      Reply ↓
      1. Houndmom*

        The executive director of our local soup kitchen/homeless men’s shelter/abused women shelter was shot and killed in her office a few years ago by an angry partner. I live in a high end suburban larger town/small city. Her office was situated next to the police station and a large fire station. I don’t think the OP’s concerns are unwarranted.

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    4. Teaching teacher*

      I know someone who used to do that. She’d be on the news shows talking about their big yearly fundraiser and run smaller fundraising events as well. I think there is also outreach, like putting “recognize signs of abuse” fliers in bathrooms and like how hair stylists get training for that too.

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      1. Teaching teacher*

        oh wait, also telling people what donations they could use, organizing things for the children too.

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    5. Tippy*

      When I worked a our DV/rape crisis shelter is was the Director most of the time. Most places are so strapped for money so every bit of it goes to assistance for clients. Any speaking engagements, fundraisers, interviews, etc. that the Dir couldn’t do was parsed out to whatever staff was available.

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    6. NothingIsLittle*

      I assumed front desk, since they would be the person denying access to abusive ex-partners. Public face being “face the public sees” not necessarily an advertised presence.

      Reply ↓
      1. Butterfly Counter*

        From my experience, DV shelters don’t really have a front desk or reception area. It’s not like a shelter for unhoused people. It’s just a house. And when I volunteered at a local one ages ago, we were told that the address was to remain a secret. We were to tell absolutely no one because of the threat of ex-partners trying to gain access.

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        1. Tippy*

          The one I worked for did. The crisis center (DV and rape) was attached to the shelter since there was no other option.

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    7. YetAnotherAnalyst*

      I assumed it meant being the person who makes the public appeals on the local news, reminding folks what to donate and where to donate them. It could maybe also be the person who drives women from the police station to the shelter or between the shelter and the courthouse? Though I think in my area that’s a county social worker, but I couldn’t swear to it.

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    8. Landry*

      I took it as someone on the leadership team, like an executive director, or a marketing person who does community outreach, fundraising, media interviews, etc. I just looked up our local women’s shelter (I’m in a metro-ish area with a population of around 200,000) and they have a six-member leadership team with directors and managers of their different programs. Has their names and photos as well. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the director on the news from time to time for awareness events, public appeals for donations and things like that. I imagine someone on that team is also giving speeches at local luncheons, ceremonies or educational events.

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    9. Flat Margaret*

      If it’s a really large shelter in a large city, they might have a comms person. Otherwise, it’s the Director and honestly, someone with the letter writer’s concerns would not at all be a good fit as Director of a DV shelter

      Reply ↓
  9. Joeb*

    Op#2, I can understand why they would not want to discuss security protocols with people who are not yet employed. I work for an organization whose type has been targeted often the past few years (not domestic violence) and we have been instructed by management not to discuss our security measures with anyone not employed by us because that would give “the opposition” (for lack of a better term) information on how to get around it.

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    1. Xeniati*

      Yeah, not disclosing security measures to anyone who doesn’t work there is a very common strategy to avoid…any kind of breach of security. Banks, for example, won’t disclose their measures for securing the vault and premises to non-employees, for obvious reasons.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rogue Slime Mold*

        It’s a Leverage staple for a reason. “I’m not sure I should entrust my valuable McGuffin to your facility. Please explain the details of your security, or I will take my business elsewhere.”

        Reply ↓
        1. Sloanicota*

          I like it when they go in as insurance investigators. “We’re not sure we’re going to pay for this facility … please walk me through the details of your security.”

          Reply ↓
      2. Kat*

        Very good comparison. I imagine that the LW’s concerns are justified, but she does need to consider that pushing for security details early in the hiring process is actually going to set off alarm bells from the organization. It looks really suspicious, from their perspective.

        Reply ↓
        1. Blueberry*

          I agree. At best, it looks like LW doesn’t fully understand why they have to keep these things secret. At worst, it looks like they’re asking for the wrong reasons.

          Reply ↓
    2. Blueberry*

      That was my thought as well. It’s very reasonable to have concerns, but the hiring committee currently has very little information about you—and their residents have to be their first priority. For all they know, you or someone you know could be trying to scope out vulnerabilities in their security system in order to harm a resident.

      A better question to ask might be something like, “If I’m offered the job, how soon would you need an answer from me? I know you can’t give many details about safety protocols until the offer stage, but I would need some time to think it over once I have all the information.”

      Reply ↓
  10. Spooz*

    #4: I have to be honest and say that I would probably struggle to recognise you if you kept changing wigs. I use clothing, accessories and hair as important recognition cues. I wouldn’t describe myself as face blind exactly, but I would probably struggle to put two and two together and realise that the person with the long blonde hair and the short dark hair are the same person! I can recognise faces, but all that other stuff is an easier shortcut.

    I imagine the way it would play out eventually is that I would learn to recognise other things about your face, and would learn your clothing and assortment of wigs, but I would probably start off with wondering why the company had hired so many people at once.

    By all means go for the many wigs! But do think about proactively communicating to people that that’s what you’re doing and introducing yourself WAY more times than you would think is necessary. And maybe stick to one wig initially and introduce new ones gradually?

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    1. Not Australian*

      I was thinking this, too, and that it would be great if the OP could wear one absolutely recognisable item every day to start with – like a particular necklace or a watch or even a hair accessory. It would just be a way of ‘training’ people to recognise her even if her hair was radically different every time they met. And, to be honest, I’m imagining a whole variety of really fun wigs and thinking how much they would probably brighten the average workplace – so go for it, OP, and enjoy yourself!

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    2. D*

      This letter inspired me to go take an online face blindness quiz, and I scored significantly higher than whatever it’s average is…and I still recognize people first by their hair or clothing. It’s more visible at a distance.

      Relatedly, I have extremely curly coily curls, and the number of people who have plan not recognized me just from straightening it without any other changes to my mannerisms, face, makeup, clothing, and location habits was–wild. Just wow.

      OP, if you have distinctive hair, people will have associated you with it already. You’re still allowed to mix it up. Just prepare for some surprised faces and some comments as people adjust.

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      1. CY*

        If you are having headaches often and the intensity is increasing you need to see a doctor. At minimum your primary care doctor and an eye doctor. Do not just assume it’s fragrance induced until you rule out more serious causes. Headaches increasing in frequency is a serious symptom that should be discussed with a doctor.

        Reply ↓
      2. Rogue Slime Mold*

        I did better than I expected on one at the science museum, and it makes me wonder if what we perceive as the norm of reliably recognizing almost everyone you have encountered before is actually like the top 10-20% of face rememberers, and the rest of us are just faking it, hoping the person talking to us will provide a clue.

        Reply ↓
      3. Nightengale*

        I can’t even take those tests because they rely on knowing about a bunch of celebrities, generally people who at best I have heard of. (maybe one reason I have never paid a lot of attention to movie/media stars is because I don’t really recognize people?) I don’t reliably recognize presidents I have voted for. I have difficulty with visual discrimination in general though, so hair/clothing only helps so much. And people change their clothing!

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    3. amoeba*

      I think it also depends on how large the office is – if it’s a fairly small group of people working closely together, it would be a lot easier than in a large office with dozens of different people who have to interact occasionally!

      Reply ↓
    4. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I would absolutely struggle to recognize someone who changed their hair so frequently. That doesn’t mean that OP4 shouldn’t do it, but please be kind to those who have a hard time. We’re not doing it on purpose.

      Reply ↓
    5. Spooz*

      I realised from reading other comments that I had assumed you were starting a new job and planning to wear All The Wigs there. But it seems like you’re staying in the same job?

      In that case, go for it, girl! No reservations!

      Yes, people like me might do a double take and struggle to connect the dots in their mind for a moment, but if you’re generally well-known to me then I would totally figure it out and not be left wondering why the office hired five Lucys at once with uncannily similar dress sense :D

      Reply ↓
  11. Hroethvitnir*

    Re: changing up wigs, my friend started doing that during chemo and never went back. She works in a highly conservative workplace, but she already stood out by being herself, and she’s exceptional at her job, so even the few that don’t love it tolerate it.

    She has a wall of wigs in unnatural colours. ^_^

    Reply ↓
  12. Ellis Bell*

    OP1, is it possible to just cut to the chase and ask to move out of the shared space? Or some other form of distance measure like working from home, or near a window to make it clear you really cannot do this. I’d definitely go for accommodation as well, but no harm raising it in the meantime as “I’m still having headaches that last hours but I want to see if x will help”. It’s also possible there’s some minimising language like “rather” and “I think” born of the fact that this is your boss and you wouldn’t raise this unless you were sure, and it was imperative. Someone sensitive to the dynamic would see that, whereas some bosses see the moment of raising it as being right next to the first time you’ve thought about it. A lot of her language also sounds like she thinks this is possibly a preference or a mistake and something else could be causing your headaches; words like “still” and “just a little” make it seem like she thinks you’re reacting to an annoyance of not liking the smell or not being used to it. I appreciate your language would definitely be clear to most people, but some people really, really don’t understand scent sensitivity and they think it’s something to do with the strength of the smell or what smells you like. I’d probably go with “It’s not possible for me to be in the same space as an airborne perfume, even if it’s a mild smell or just a small amount; I can’t control what happens after I inhale it. I’ve tried, but it’s not going away, and the effects are just as bad if not worse.”

    Reply ↓
    1. amoeba*

      I’d also suggest asking to move first, if that’s at all possible – it sounds like so far, the only solution you discussed is going fragrance-free, maybe a spacial separation hasn’t even occurred to her as a possibility?

      Reply ↓
    2. MK*

      Eh, asking for a separate office or work from home, in an organization that doesn’t have either, could be taken as an attempt to get either of those “perks” on the pretense of migraines.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ellis Bell*

        Probably should have clarified you only ask for that if the boss remains permanently gripped to her perfume bottle. You ask for it in a “Either scent free for this site, or moving me off-site, which is easier to do?” kind of way. Because the former is so much easier and a no brainer, the OP simply stopped at asking for that, but you never know what the boss may prefer, and it also helps to clarify that you really need one or the other.

        Reply ↓
    3. Bluenyx*

      It sounds like there’s minimizing language happening to the point that OP hasn’t ever actually asked the boss to stop wearing all perfume directly. I can’t tell from the letter entirely, but a lot of people will ignore requests they don’t want to hear if they’re even a little open to interpretation. When the boss asked if she could wear her old perfume, did OP say “no”? It’s not fair her boss is being this obtuse, but wanted to flag that.

      If OP has been as passive as it sounds, bringing in a doctor’s note explicitly requesting a scent-free workplace might help clear that up without OP having to be more confrontational than she’s comfortable with (and getting the increased headaches checked by a doctor can’t hurt anyway).

      Reply ↓
    4. HannahS*

      I think this is worth considering. There’s a really big difference between, “I think your perfume might be causing my headaches; I’d rather you not wear your old one either,” and “Your perfume is causing me long-lasting headaches; I need the whole office to be fragrance-free.” I’m not saying that I personally wouldn’t understand it–I already don’t wear perfume to work–but if that’s the language you used with your boss, I’m not sure that you were actually clear and direct.

      Example: the sheer number of times I’ve said things like, “I prefer not to take work home if I can avoid it,” and “I work really hard at having a good work-life balance,” and, “I’d rather stay late and finish everything rather than deal with work stuff at home,” and “I try to have good boundaries at work” while trying to get my supervisors to stop texting my personal phone with non-emergencies and guess what? It didn’t work. I didn’t actually say “Never, ever contact me outside of work hours unless there is a life-and-death emergency,” and so it didn’t happen. Bosses can be intimidating and health stuff is delicate but also you really do need to be definite.

      Reply ↓
  14. DJ Abbott*

    #1, I use an air purifier for airborne allergies. I have found that sometimes pointing my air purifier in directions you wouldn’t expect helps more than pointing it the expected way.
    The one in my front room has the intake side pointing towards the window and the airflow pointing towards the bed. This helps filter allergens from outside. The one in my kitchen is the opposite – it has the intake pointing towards the room and the airflow side pointing towards the back door. I don’t understand why, but this helps my allergies more than having it the other way around.
    So maybe while you’re working on getting accommodations, rearranging the direction of your air purifier might help. If it does help I would not mention it to anyone at work, and continue with the process of getting full accommodations. You deserve the security of a healthy work environment that is not dependent on an appliance to prevent making you sick.
    Good luck!

    Reply ↓
    1. I Have RBF*

      HEPA filters help with allergies to dusts and pollen, because they clean particulate out of the air. Unless they are specifically designed to also filter out VOCs (odor causing gases), they won’t do squat about most perfume.

      Reply ↓
  15. A*

    1: If this was a co-worker, I would follow the script Alison suggested.

    This is a boss, though. So I would probably go to HR with just the offer to move offices myself.

    The LW is right. The LW is correct. The LW shouldn’t have to move. The LW’s boss should stop wearing these fragrances out of respect for the LW and basic kindness. But what is right and what should happen doesn’t usually matter as much as what is actually happening.

    I think any time there is a conflict and you have the opportunity to resolve it from a place of getting assistance to change yourself instead of changing other people that is the route to take. If HR offers to institute a fragrance ban or move the boss then accept it graciously. I would open this conversation with a very clear message that I am willing to change. I’ve found people respond really well to that.

    Reply ↓
  16. Rosa*

    #3 I don’t understand what is illegal about asking someone who is off the clock to help out. Maybe it’s a US thing? In Australia, salaried people are expected to work additional hours, within reason, to get the job done. I will regularly work an extra 15-30 mins but equally won’t panic if I’m going to be late due to taking my pet to the vet say. Equally, if I get a call on the weekend to help out in an emergency- if I can, I will. If it was a regular thing and I had no choice to help or not – sure, that’s a problem but that doesn’t sound like that’s the case here.

    Reply ↓
    1. Bananapants*

      For #3, they say “Keeping in mind we are not paid enough to be considered exempt from overtime pay.” Exempt from overtime pay means essentially what you described as salaried, and OP and coworkers are not in that category. That means that the off-the-clock coworkers would be legally owed overtime pay for the time worked outside their normal hours.

      Reply ↓
      1. Zelda*

        I don’t think the LW is either salaried or exempt, but it’s worth a mention here that they are not the same thing. (I’ve unfortunately worked with HR that either didn’t know that, or were hoping I didn’t know that.) Probably 99.99% of exempt positions are salaried, but there are salaried *non*-exempt positions.

        Reply ↓
    2. EO*

      In the U.S. only hourly staff will normally use a time clock, so the expression ‘off the clock’ implies the workers are hourly rather than salaried/exempt from overtime eligibility.

      Reply ↓
    3. Lalchi11*

      I think AAM is assuming that they are non-exempt positions since OP referenced overtime. If they were salaried exempt positions, I don’t think OP would have referenced overtime. But, if they are exempt, I agree, then asking others to chip in would not be illegal.

      Reply ↓
    4. The Other Evil HR Lady*

      Agreed with comments above: the OP doesn’t meet minimum pay threshold to be considered salary/exempt, so they must be paid for all hours worked (at least, that’s what I understood from the post). Otherwise, this would be a non-issue. For me, for example, today will be a nearly 12-hour day because I had things to do for a project, so I came in early. I have to leave for a doctor’s appointment in the afternoon tomorrow, and, no, I’m not going to care if I don’t work a full 8-hour day – same as you :-)

      Reply ↓
    5. Elk*

      I missed it the first time I read the letter, but it’s in the last sentence–they aren’t paid enough to be exempt/on salary, so legally they’re required to be paid overtime.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hannah Lee*

        And even if the combination of their standard hours and the additional “help out” hours are not over 40 hours in a single work week (a threshold for overtime pay), in the US, the law still requires them to be paid for whatever hours they actually worked.

        There should be NO “off the clock” work for workers who are non-exempt and paid an hourly wage. If they are doing work for the company, that time must be paid at whatever rate applies (straight time, overtime, etc)

        Reply ↓
    6. Elf*

      Following on from what Bananapants said, it would be more akin to asking someone who is a casual to work when they aren’t rostered on (which I’m pretty sure Australia has laws against as well)

      Reply ↓
  17. Bananapants*

    LW#1 Just wanted to say that you are so 100% reasonable in asking for this and it sucks your boss isn’t listening! I’ve had a recent uptick in migraines and I think it’s because my office went to 2 days in-person, so I have to take the bus more than before and so many people wear too much fragrance (as in, I can smell them standing 6 feet away at the bus stop)

    Reply ↓
  18. The Other Evil HR Lady*

    For #3 – I agree with Alison, but also manually keep track of all your hours worked, in case they don’t do right by you and you need to take it to your state’s Dept of Labor (or the federal one, for that matter). This way, there is an accurate account of how many actual hours you’ve worked “off the clock.”

    That grinds my gears, BTW, and it’s one of my few pet peeves. I tell all my employees that working off the clock is not allowed – period, end of sentence – and that I’d rather they get in trouble for working unauthorized overtime than trying to figure out the actual hours they worked off the clock. Ugh!

    Reply ↓
  19. not neurotypical*

    OP #1 is going to need a diagnosis to formally ask for an accommodation, and that’s a good thing, because I am not at all convinced (based on timeline provided) that the perfume is the cause of the increasing headaches. Increasing headaches can be a sign of various problems, some of them serious. OP, please go to a doctor rather than fixating on the hunch that the perfume is to blame!

    Reply ↓
  20. Liane*

    By law, in the US only salaried exempt employees (meaning “exempt from overtime pay laws”) are allowed to work any amount of time without being paid for that time. Hourly workers in the US must be paid for all time spent working, and a company that allows ” off the clock” work faces sizeable fines and the laws usually (maybe always? I’m not a lawyer) mandate the violator pay the affected employee/s multiples of their wage for that time.

    Reply ↓
    2. Pescadero*

      In the US salaried exempt employees AND hourly exempt employees are allowed to work any amount of time without being paid for that time.

      You can be:

      salaried exempt (paid a fixed salary, no required overtime pay)
      hourly exempt (paid hourly, no required overtime pay)
      salaried non-exempt (paid a fixed salary, have to be paid for overtime)
      hourly non-exempt (paid hourly, have to be paid for overtime)

      While the first and last are most common – the middle two do exist.

      Reply ↓
  21. Urban Planner*

    #1 – I wonder if you could try proposing no perfume as a 2 week trial period or experiment to see if your headaches stop. That way it starts out by asking her for only a temporary change and then you can go back and say “yep, that solved it. Would you mind continuing to lay off the fragrance?”

    Reply ↓
    1. juliebulie*

      That’s a good idea. If it does turn out to be the fix, let the boss decide whether to lay off it permanently or let OP move.

      Reply ↓
      1. juliebulie*

        I mean the boss should lay off the perfume regardless. But if moving is still an option, you’ll learn a lot about your boss if she considers that less problematic than going perfumeless.

        Why does anyone need to wear perfume at work?

        Reply ↓
        1. Andromeda Carr*

          Some people still consider perfume part of a complete outfit (for the record I don’t agree with that, especially as we as a society find out more about scent sensitivities) and others use it as an encouraging talisman because scent is so tied to memory.

          Reply ↓
    2. Endless TBR Pile*

      It’s a good idea in theory, but I can see this working to OP’s detriment.

      Boss stops wearing this perfume, but chooses a lighter “skin scent” instead. OP still has headaches. Boss says “well obviously it’s not my perfume!” and resumes wear.

      Boss stops wearing perfume entirely, but the world is still pretty scented and OP has headaches (lessened, perhaps) from the scent of laundry detergent, hair products, etc. Boss says “it’s not my perfume!” and resumes wear.

      Boss stops wearing the perfume and OP gets a headache after a fight with accounting / the cable company / just because it’s Wednesday, and Boss says “it’s not my perfume!” and resumes wear.

      I think, especially given the dynamic, OP should look at just swapping desks. It’s obvious the boss has no interest in no wearing this perfume to work, and forcing her hand may have some negative consequences for OP.

      Reply ↓
      1. Spooz*

        Lol, my fanfic was that the boss SAYS she’ll stop wearing the perfume but secretly doesn’t stop to “test” the LW. LW continues having headaches, assumes it must NOT be the perfume, going through some epic diagnosis process and is really worried… and turns out it was the perfume all along.

        Reply ↓
        1. Zelda*

          Yeah, I really do NOT trust this boss to genuinely STOP wearing perfume. “Just a little,” “only the eau de toilette,” “well I did stop for Monday and Tuesday, so on Wednesday I can,” and whatever other excuse.

          Reply ↓
        2. Frankie*

          I’ve encountered that kind of thing at two workplaces. Or they continue to wear it and say it’s their hairspray.

          I have found when the there is resistance to the scent free policy it is the beginning of the end of that job.

          Reply ↓
        3. Hannah Lee*

          This reminds me of the person who wrote into some advice column because they (or maybe their child) has food allergies and their in-laws had them over for dinner and purposely included the allergen … because they didn’t believe the person actually had food allergies and were trying to prove themselves right. Trip to ER, Epipen deployment etc etc wound up instead proving them *wrong*.

          Or the other one who wrote in because she has allergies to onions and her in-laws consistently served prepared foods that ALL contained onions, because that’s what they like, and then were upset the OP was packing their own food … they felt slighted that she didn’t like their cooking.

          People are just weird and cruel sometimes, often for very stupid reasons.

          If I were OP , I would not rely on any solution where the required action is for you rely on boss to do or not do something on a daily basis. This boss seems to have chosen “wear the fragrance of my choice all day every day, and not be swayed about it” as their hill to die on here. Different workspace / WFH might be the way to go.

          Reply ↓
  22. phira*

    LW4: I had a colleague at my first job who wore different wigs all the time! It was a very normal thing for her to come in with a different style than the day before. If anything, it was a positive thing, because our group was very fashion-conscious. So, go for it!

    Reply ↓
    1. NothingIsLittle*

      Someone in my high school classes had a medical condition that caused hair loss and alternated between three wigs of similar styles but very different colors (black, brown with highlights, and wine red). Less than half of our classmates noticed enough to realize they were wigs. I once mentioned one of her wigs to someone who said, “Classmate wears wigs?” even though her hair was a different color every day. People are unlikely to consciously notice, and the people who do will likely think it’s neat.

      Reply ↓
  23. Nancy*

    #1: see a doctor to make sure that it isn’t the perfume.
    #2: they have security reasons for only discussing the specifics with their preferred candidate. That takes priority.

    Reply ↓
  24. Science_Bear*

    OP #1: A half face respirator with particle and vapour cartridges would be the correct technical solution for both your COVID and your fragrance problems. It would also be comfier to wear all day at work and an N95 (from someone who has had to wear both for full work days). And I bet that if you come into work wearing a gas mask your boss will stop wearing perfume to work.

    Reply ↓
  25. Okay*

    Without being anti-Covid, I gotta ask: if you are taking all these precautions to sanitize the air and are still having a huge impact from her perfume, how effective is your regiment?

    I promise I’m asking this in good faith.

    Reply ↓
    1. A. Lab Rabbit*

      Happy to answer this question and clear up this misconception:

      Fragrance molecules are much smaller than the Covid-19 virus. They are typically about 1 nanometer (a billionth of a meter) in size. The Covid-19 virus is much larger, on the order of 50-140 nanometers in diameter.

      By comparison, a pollen grain is anywhere from 10,000 to 50,000 nanometers in diameter. 100,000 nanometers is about the size of a grain of salt.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        I read that as meaning “I’m not opposed to taking COVID concerns seriously, and I have this question about mask effectiveness.”

        Reply ↓
      2. Hannah Lee*

        This reminds me of one of my random pet peeves – when organizations organize fundraisers and call them things like “walk for hunger” or “run for breast cancer” .
        Shouldn’t it be “walk against hunger” and “run against breast cancer”?

        I’m very much ANTI hunger and ANTI cancer, I don’t want to walk FOR them, even if it’s only because “run for breast cancer research” doesn’t fit on the t-shirt.

        Reply ↓
        1. Coverage Associate*

          Also, “sexual harassment training.” That one I always add “anti” to, and we did recently get an updated anti bribery policy, but I have had trainings where a lot of the training is recognizing bad behavior, and the “anti” isn’t 100% necessary.

          Reply ↓
        2. Elsajeni*

          I always think of a post I saw where someone had snapped a photo of their workplace’s bulletin board advertising “Mental Health Prevention Week.”

          Reply ↓
    3. WeirdChemist*

      Individual viruses particulates are significantly larger than the molecules you’re smelling from fragrances!

      The Covid virus has a diameter of ~100 nm (100×10^-9 m). Methyl benzyl acetate, a floral-scented compound used in a lot of perfumes, has a diameter of ~1 nm.

      Most air filtering methods filter by size, so something could easily be set up to filter virus particles, but not something 100x smaller!

      Reply ↓
    4. Quill*

      To make these answers make more intuitive sense: Imagine three legos stuck together. That’s a molecule.

      A virus, which contains billions of molecules, is the size of a two story house in comparison. It is a heck of a lot easier for the legos to turn up unexpectedly.

      Reply ↓
  26. Stine12341*

    OP#1- If you can smell the perfume through your N95 mask, then you do not have the mask fitted properly. You may be wearing the wrong size and/or do have a good seal around your face. If it’s not protecting you from smells, it’s not protecting you from anything else.

    Reply ↓
    1. Bananapants*

      Nope, N95s filter particles but scents can still get through. doesn’t necessarily mean its improperly fitted.

      Reply ↓
      1. Alice*

        This is why you use an N95 respirator to protect yourself from wildfire *smoke* — the N95 should fit tightly enough that all the air goes through the filtration medium, instead of around it, and almost all the particulates will get caught in the material, thanks to its electrostatic charge.
        But if you are so close to the fire that you are worried about volatile organic compounds and inorganic gases in addition to particulate matter, you want a respirator with an organic vapor cartridge at least, or ideally a multi-gas cartridge, or an organic vapor and acid gas cartridge.

        Reply ↓
    2. Zelda*

      Individual scent molecules are a lot smaller than respiratory droplets. An N95 particulate mask is not meant to be the same thing as a gas mask.

      Reply ↓
    3. LabSnep*

      N95 mask fitting is based on a droplet particle with no scent, but with an acrid taste due to the fact that N95 masks do not filter out most odours.

      The stuff that is used to test is rancid btw.

      Reply ↓
    4. I Have RBF*

      Wrong. N95 masks are not designed to filter out VOCs, only particulate. VOC molecules are much smaller and go right through, just like air.

      Reply ↓
  27. Dogmomma*

    #4. as a fellow cancer survivor, I say “do it!”. and if nobody likes it, tough beans. it’s your hair, not theirs.

    Reply ↓
    1. Courageous cat*

      I am admittedly surprised how many people here have face blindness when Harvard Medical School estimates just about 2-2.5% of the population have it. OP, mild face blindness is not a hardship in the face of what’s (very possibly) incurable cancer. Please do not let anyone make you feel at all bad, or like you’re putting them out. Have fun with your wigs pleeeease.

      Reply ↓
  28. JP*

    Just putting out into the world my desire for people to be more mindful of using fragrance in shared spaces like the office. I don’t necessarily have a problem with natural smells, but there’s often some ingredient or component in fragrance that irritates my sinuses. My company bought me a cheap air purifier from Amazon for my office because I was working next to someone who used a lot of perfume, but it didn’t seem to help at all. Probably because it was just a cheap air purifier from Amazon.

    Reply ↓
    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Agreed. I don’t understand perfume wearers at all. It’s not like *they* can smell the perfume, because the nose adjusts to the smell quickly and after a couple of minutes of wearing it, you yourself can’t smell it anymore. I don’t think I get physically affected by scents (no headaches, for instance) but my nose/brain keeps regularly smelling the fragrance instead of blocking it out so I get very distracted by scents and I don’t like them very much. (I wonder if this is yet another ADHD symptom, hmmm.) My mom really likes scented hand soap so I get smelly hands when I’m at my parents’ house and I find it quite distracting.

      As a young musician, we had it drilled into us to absolutely NOT wear perfume because you never know who in the group might be allergic to it and it’s terrible for someone to be onstage and having a coughing fit or whatever, particularly if they play a wind/brass instrument or are a singer. I’ve never had a problem with perfumes in my musical groups, but occasionally out in public I get strong whiffs of perfume and they really get to me.

      Reply ↓
      1. A*

        It’s a preference like anything else. Some people like perfume and scented products and some people don’t.

        I actually agree that in tight spaces like performers and work fragrances are best avoided. But I don’t think it’s difficult to understand why people like perfume in the first place. Just take it out of the sentence and replace it with “sushi” or “skinny jeans”

        Artificial fragrance is something some people like and it’s not a deep thing that requires understanding.

        Reply ↓
      2. Bella Ridley*

        As someone who does wear perfume, you can smell it regularly throughout the day. Not always, of course, but I do smell it regularly enough that it is enjoyable and pleasant to notice. That’s why people wear it.

        Reply ↓
      3. EventPlannerGal*

        The smell certainly fades as my nose adjusts but I can still smell my perfume through the day – I might have to focus on it more but it doesn’t just vanish. And I like it because it’s nice! I like it when I catch the smell of whatever nice thing my perfume smells of, and I like how it can make me reminisce about the past or bring out particular emotions or memories. There’s a whole lot of literature, both scientific and fictional, on the topic of scent and how it relates to our emotions so if you find scent wearers this confusing there’s a lot of information out there that should clear it up for you quite quickly!

        Reply ↓
      4. LabSnep*

        My brain turns fragrances that trigger my sensitivity into a smell somewhat akin to a cross between rotting citrus and baby powder.

        I have been told that is NOT what the fragrances are.

        Reply ↓
        1. iglwif*

          I have learned over the course of my life that to (at least some) other people, perfume that has gone off smells bad but perfume that has not gone off smells good. They all smell equally bad to me.

          Reply ↓
      5. Indolent Libertine*

        I’ve worked for dozens of employers as a professional musician, and they *all* have no-fragrance policies (though this wasn’t the case back in the Pleistocene Era when I was starting out). Combine the close quarters with the physical exertion of performing, and then add the usually poor air exchange on most stages, and if anyone’s got scent on it’s apparent to everyone.

        Reply ↓
      6. Hannah Lee*

        “I don’t understand perfume wearers at all. ”

        I wear perfume because I like it. But it’s taken me years to find a couple of fragrances I like that don’t cause an allergic reaction (either respiratory or contact) and aren’t too distracting. The fragrances I’ve chosen have low sillage and projection ie they don’t waft heavily all over the place or leave a scent trail when I pass, and people have to be pretty close to me to smell it. If I worked in a more crowded or dense workspace, I’d probably think twice before wearing it at work.

        I’ve worked with people who wear much heavier scents, to the point that I could walk into the building and say “Oh, is Sheryl from Chicago in town?” when by then Sheryl, who was in fact in town, had not been in the lobby I was walking through for over an hour.

        That prohibition of perfume around musical performances makes perfect sense, and if I were in a group, I’d skip perfume all together.

        Reply ↓
      7. iglwif*

        I also don’t understand perfume wearers. Or people who use scented laundry detergent or fabric softener. Or people who spray Febreze on their furniture or put air fresheners all over their living spaces. All of these things smell (a) very strong and (b) very bad to me. However, since they are all fairly popular, I have concluded that something is wrong with me — so I can ask for scent-free spaces so I don’t feel like crap, but I can’t make people like it.

        I’ve been a choral singer for a very long time, and we have the same rule you describe about scents on stage and in rehearsal. Choirs often stand VERY close together, we are breathing very deeply, and on stage we get sweaty. In addition to smelling unpleasant, just one person wearing perfume can fell an entire section!

        Reply ↓
      8. Dahlia*

        Whenever a post about fragrances happens here, I’m always baffled by people who are so deeply confused by the idea of the thing that is famously designed to smell good to people smelling good to some people. Does nothing ever smell good to you?

        Reply ↓
    2. WeirdChemist*

      I had a former coworker who would absolutely gas-bomb his desk with aerosolized disinfectant once a day. And I’m not talking a few seconds of spraying, he would hold down on the spray trigger for *several minutes straight*. Everyone in a five-desk radius would have to flee for at least an hour. Absolutely miserable, and I’m not sad he’s gone!

      Reply ↓
  29. Rebecca*

    #4 I had a former coworker who wore a different wig every week. She had so many and if anyone ever commented, she didn’t make a big deal about it but just said she got bored with the same thing. I think her casual approach to her always changing always beautiful looks made the rest of us feel casual about it as well.

    Reply ↓
    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Yeah, I don’t see how this is much different from wearing a different outfit or pair of shoes everyday. The only difference being that most people don’t wear wigs and don’t drastically change their hairstyle every day, but if you have to wear a wig anyway, why not get a few and change them out regularly?

      There’s an extra layer of effort involved in changing wigs all the time, in the sense that buying wigs is harder than buying clothes or shoes and they’re expensive enough that if you aren’t totally into wigs (or need them) you’re not going to make that effort, which is probably a big reason why most of us don’t bother with wigs. But again, if you’re buying wigs for yourself anyway, why not have fun with them? If you wore a headscarf regularly, you might also have several of those and change them out a lot, and I don’t see why a wig should be any different.

      Please, OP, wear your various wigs and have fun with it!

      Reply ↓
  30. Another Kristin*

    LW #4, I love the idea of you turning up at work with a different wig for every day of the week like Lwaxana Troi. Go for it!

    Reply ↓
  31. Medical Office Zoomer*

    OP #4 – Yes to the wigs! I work in the medical field but not related to cancer, but we have an employee in a similar situation. She always wears the cutest wigs, and, since we know they’re wigs, no one is ever confused when the style changes drastically. On the flip side – we like seeing the new styles she gets!

    Reply ↓
  32. Wednesday wishes*

    If you’re going to wear a different wig everyday (which I think is perfectly acceptable) I would just make sure people you don’t see very often recognize you! Some people identify others by their most noticeable attribute- saying that if you’re wearing short dark curly hair one day and then the next time you see them you are wearing long straight red hair, it is possible that you will put others in an awkward situation if they don’t recognize you by just your facial features (I probably wouldn’t unless I saw the person every day).

    Reply ↓
  34. Bean Counter*

    Regarding #1, when your boss asked “Can I at least go back to my old perfume” and you said “I’d rather you didn’t”… I can kind of see how she’d interpret that as “Oh I’d rather you not have to make a change for my sake!” and not what you really meant, which was “No that one bothers me too, preferably you’ll just stop wearing perfume altogether”.

    Have you explicitly spelled out “The perfume you wore previously gave me xyz symptoms, and this current perfume affects me even worse”?

    Reply ↓
  35. Goon Tomorrow*

    Hair: Go for it!
    Some of us change our hair on a regular basis and it’s ok! People with various levels of face blindness figure out ways to recognize people. Most people don’t wear the same clothes shoes, accessories, etc every day. Yet people figure it out. There are other ways to recognize someone besides hair. The sound of a walk, the smell of shampoo, the jangling of jewelry, the person that wears bright colors a lot, the guy that shakes his salad every day, their aura of calmness, the person who comes into the room voice first, the person with the big pink Stanley with the koala bear straw, or whatever. There is no need to think about your hair any differently. Have fun!

    Reply ↓
    1. HannahS*

      Well, no, not everyone with face blindness figures out how to recognize people. I’ve known my friend with prosopagnosia for close to 15 years, and every single time I see him I say, “Hey Tim, it’s Hannah.” He can identify his wife from her clothes and voice. But that doesn’t apply to people he works with or knows casually. He does not recognize me until I tell him who I am.

      That doesn’t change anything about the advice to OP4; even if she works with someone with prosopagnosia she should go ahead and enjoy her wigs; as you say, most people change their appearance every day. It’s just a bit odd to say that people will a certain disability can just “figure it out.” That’s not true.

      Reply ↓
      1. Wednesday wishes*

        I agree,. If OP doesn’t see a person regularly, they are more apt to remember her by outstanding features, such as hair (or if she were, say, 7 feet tall). I don’t have an disability and would struggle to remember a casual co-worker’s eyes/nose without their hair if I did not see them all the time. A simple “hi it’s my name here.” until people get to know you a lot better will do.

        Reply ↓
      2. Goon Tomorrow*

        well, I’m counting me and talking about my own experience. it shouldn’t stop anyone from wearing a wig if they want to.

        Reply ↓
      3. Goon Tomorrow*

        and really, if you read what I’m saying, I’m not saying that everybody was a disability can just get over it. I’m saying that there are other ways besides hair to identify people. if that doesn’t work for you, I’m sorry. but that does not mean that no one should be able to change something like their hair on a regular basis simply because you need to figure out some other way to recognize someone.

        Reply ↓
        1. HannahS*

          I read what you said: “People with various levels of face blindness figure out ways to recognize people,” I didn’t conclude that you were talking solely about yourself; I figured you were referring to “other people with varying levels of face blindness,” and contributed an example of someone who can’t “just figure it out,” because he has a brain injury.

          Reply ↓
    2. Mid*

      I didn’t realize I was faceblind until recently, and somewhat ironically, I often change my hair style and color in very dramatic ways (I’ve had a blonde buzz cut to mid-back neon hair and everything in between.) And I recognize people on voice or tattoos or body or contextually, since many people I know change their hair often.

      Reply ↓
  36. BenAdminGeek*

    For #4 I realize it’s likely a woman, but I’m hoping it’s a mid-50s stodgy white guy at a bank asking this question, and imagining him sweeping dramatically into work with an awesome new wig every day of the week, with a coordinating tie and pocket square.

    OP#4- best of luck with recovery! My partner’s been going through treatments and surgeries the past 15 months and I know how it can take over your life. Wishing you all the best.

    Reply ↓
  37. Meep*

    I am kind of surprised by AAM’s response to #3, but I am also salaried so I don’t get overtime (and in a position with no potential merit raise in sight working more than 40 hours a week does me no good).

    Reply ↓
      1. Meep*

        No, I get that! I am just surprised you aren’t having them ask for clarification right away. The comment about me being exempt/salaried was more I wouldn’t have even bothered asking for clarification because you couldn’t get me to work overtime unless you are promising me something in return (extra PTO for example) in writing. ^^;

        Reply ↓
        1. fhqwhgads*

          I think the distinction is: until/unless someone asks OP3 to participate in this, no point in bringing it up. If someone asks them to be in the pool of people doing it, that’s the time to ask about how the time should be entered, or whatever normal, innocuous clarifying question seems to fit. If at that point someone says “oh no, it’s off the clock”, that’s when they can be all confused “surely you’re not suggesting something illegal.”

          Reply ↓
  38. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    1. My coworker has a major sensitivity to both my hair conditioner and trace smells of incense – smells are not stopped by most masks (chemicals are considerably smaller than viruses etc.)

    When she approached me about it I couldn’t eliminate both from me so I suggested we converse via IM in future.

    The smell of menthol triggers major migraines for me and that’s a smell that occurs a lot but I’ve found that telling people that I really cannot be in the same room as someone slathered with Vics and could we talk another way has had good results. Basically – state your needs, and offer a working alternative.

    Now if they come back with ‘too bad, deal with it’ there’s always the ‘forgo the migraine meds and barf in the office’ option..

    Reply ↓
  39. M*

    For letter 2, I can’t tell if this is a spokesperson role or for the executive director/CEO role or not, but if you are in leadership you might have the ability to change what is done for and/or staff

    Also, you might want to look at an internet scrubbing service, like DeleteMe. They offer various levels of support, including special services for executives, including scrubbing family members info from the internet.

    If you do take this role, you likely want to decide if you want to share info about your family in speeches, writing etc to protect privacy. You might also want to connect with ACLU, Planned Parenthood, and immigrant rights groups in you area. All of those groups have had increased threats and they might offer good advice.

    Also, make sure you have a work cell phone and don’t use your personal one for work.

    Reply ↓
  40. TheBunny*

    OP#3

    Yes this is illegal…but first I would make sure it’s really the expectation and not just how some do it. And I would use the ask for forgiveness rather than permission approach. Even though you aren’t really asking. I’d wait until you do the work and clock in for it…and then see what happens.

    Years ago I worked for a company that expected employees (on a rotating schedule) to carry a cell phone for after hours emergencies. These are not common and I went a couple of years before the phone rang. I was at dinner and it took long enough that by time I was done my friends were finished and were boxing up my food.

    I put this on my timecard as I was hourly.

    My managers questioned this and I said I’m hourly so I needed to be paid for it. They replied that none of the other employees have put it on theirs…and I said the difference was that they are salaried and as an hourly employee I needed to be paid for any worked hours.

    They dropped it and removed hourly employees from the rotation.

    Reply ↓
    1. Saturday*

      In keeping with the “don’t raise this yet while you’re still so new” advice, I wouldn’t suggest putting in hours for it because that could have a lot of repercussions that you can’t fully anticipate yet. Just don’t opt in at first.

      Reply ↓
  41. Southern Violet*

    #3 changes if they are asked or pressured to work off the clock. If that happens, they can and should say absolutely not. If pressure continues, go to your state DOL if they are good (federal is of no use right now).

    Reply ↓
  42. prosopagnosia ftw*

    #4–I fully support your choice to be wig-fabulous!

    However, please don’t be offended when we folks with prosopagnosia (face blindness) don’t recognize you. Hair is one of our ways of telling people apart.

    Don’t let that stop you! But do be prepared for some people you see daily to think you’re a stranger.

    Reply ↓
  43. Face Blind*

    #4: I’m somewhat face blind and tend to recognize people by their hair. I’ve had a whole conversation thinking that I was talking to one person when it was another person entirely. So I’ll just throw that out as something to consider.

    Reply ↓
  44. Jellyfish Catcher*

    Fragrance reactions vary! I have never been affected, except for one fragrance.

    A new client wore such a distinct fragrance that I could smell it right when she opened the door into the reception area. My office was 4 offices down the hall.

    I immediately felt nauseous; it smelled truly awful and affected my concentration for that first meeting.
    Nobody else had that reaction.
    She was gracious about not using it, due to my “fragrance sensitivity.”
    We all need to respect that it happens.

    Reply ↓
  45. Uhura*

    LW #1 regarding clear and direct communication, “I’d rather you didn’t” is NOT explicit. If someone said that to me, it would sound like they were giving me a choice, that they’d prefer I didn’t wear the perfume, but was leaving the choice up to me.

    Direct and clear would be: “Would you please stop wearing perfume? It’s making me sick.”

    Reply ↓
  46. shouldbeworkingrightnow*

    #1
    Even a well-fitted n-95 will not prevent the gas/odor molecules from reaching your olfactory nerves, so it’s important to emphasize that a no-fragrance policy is the only way for you to work onsite in the shared space.

    Reply ↓

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