in a hiring process, when should I ask about things that are deal-breakers for me?

by Alison Green on April 10, 2025

A reader writes:

I’m contemplating a job search and would love your advice on how to raise certain non-negotiable workplace factors — what I’d call “satisficers” — early in the process, without derailing conversations or coming off as naive or high-maintenance.

For example, I travel extensively for work (sometimes over 100 hours in transit per week), and I’m simply not interested in a role that requires flying economy. Most companies in my field provide business class, but a handful don’t. Similarly, I find open-plan offices incredibly stressful and wouldn’t take a job that required one. These aren’t negotiable perks for me; they’re baseline filters. If a company doesn’t offer them, that’s totally fine, but I wouldn’t want to waste everyone’s time going through a protracted interview process only to find out at the offer stage.

One challenge is that the HR person I’m speaking with early on may not fully grasp the realities of the role — especially the sheer amount of travel involved. I don’t want to come off as a prima donna right out of the gate. The conditions I work in can be as basic as tents or mud huts, so it’s not about luxury — it’s about sustainability when spending a huge chunk of my life in transit.

The issue is, these things don’t always come up organically, especially since many interviews are remote now. If I bring them up early, I risk sounding either naive (“Of course we provide that”) or misaligned with company philosophy (“We believe everyone should fly economy”).

What’s the best way to screen for these things early without making it seem like I’m leading with demands?

It’s okay if you sound misaligned with company philosophy if it’s something you’d reject a job over; in that case, you are misaligned with their philosophy (or they’re misaligned with yours) and your whole goal is to find that out early. So don’t let that deter you. Finding out that you’re misaligned on something that’s a deal-breaker for you is the point.

I also wouldn’t worry about sounding naive. You’re not saying “do you offer paychecks?” You’re asking about things that genuinely do vary from company to company.

It’s also not about leading with demands. It’s about saying, “I don’t want to waste your time if we’re not the right match on a couple of points that are important to me.”

You could word it this way: “Over the years I’ve learned there are a couple of things it’s useful to ask about early on so I don’t waste your time if it’s not the right match. I’ve found that most companies fly people in this role business class, because of the sheer number of hours per week spent traveling, but not all do. That’s key to keeping the work sustainable for me so I want to ask about it up-front.” … “I also wanted to ask about the office space — is it open offices, cubicles, private offices, something else?”

You can ask this pretty early on — either in the phone screen or the first interview — since you’re explaining why you’re bringing it up now (i.e., these aren’t small details to you, but things your acceptance would hinge on).

If you’re talking with an HR person, I might hold off on the business class question until you’re talking with the manager, given your concern about HR not fully understanding the amount of travel (whereas the manager definitely should, and the answer you get from them should be more reliable — although it’s also something to confirm again as you’re negotiating the offer, to make sure).

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{ 194 comments }

{ 194 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Benihana scene stealer*

    Personally I think all dealbreakers should be mentioned as soon as possible. In this case it sounds like you have a few, but I’d just tell the HR person directly, since you think she might not know to bring them up.

    As an aside if you’re traveling 100 hours per week the open plan office can’t be too much of a factor

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    1. London, but with drugs*

      I feel like if the OP says an open office is a dealbreaker we should accept that it’s a dealbreaker. Also, is it having a desk in the open office that is a dealbreaker? Or the mere existence of the open office?

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      1. Benihana scene stealer*

        I accept it completely! The real point should have been whatever the dealbreakers are, always better to raise them ASAP in my view

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        1. Kevin Sours*

          It’s best to raise them as early as makes sense within the process. But that’s going to depend a lot on your sense of the process, your options, and exactly how much you value not wasting your time vs maximizing your chance of getting a job.

          OP’s concern about coming across as high maintenance is valid. Dumping a list of hard requirement on somebody during the initial phone screen can come off wrong even if half of them are things that they do as a matter of course and the other half are things that they’d consider. And the recruiter might not have the same nuanced information that the hiring manager does.

          So it can make sense to wait until you’ve had a change to make an impression to start dropping these things and similarly it can be smart to choose your audience carefully. On the other hand if you have options and don’t want to spend the time on that then that’s also valid.

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      2. Anon OP*

        As a lot of people picked up, I don’t travel every week. There is a big chunk of my year in the office too – so to answer your question, its kid of both: when I’m doing technical work (its not coding, but think along those lines) then I kind of get what I’m working on “cached” in my head and then can do a lot of complex work in a short time… but if I’m disrupted or distracted I kind of lose the train of thought and it takes a while to get it back. Or just someone getting up to go get a coffee might distract me and I drop out of the flow state. I’m friendly and I like to engage with people, but I find deep work very hard in open plan. Its also that it can be delicate to have certain conversations in open plan and there never seem to be enough meeting rooms; plus I feel a bit like I’m asking people to come to the principal’s office to have a discussion with me. I like shared offices – one place I worked had large offices with 2 – 4 people per room, that was pretty good. Much easier to just sit down and catch up with someone while their office mate was off in a meeting or something. So in a nutshell I just find open plan is not for me and I’d prefer to find a different job.

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    2. Jennifer Strange*

      I don’t think it’s 100 hours per week every week, just that travel weeks can involve 100 hours work of travel.

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      1. Debby*

        Jennifer, the LW does say “For example, I travel extensively for work (sometimes over 100 hours in transit per week)”. I wondered that myself, that is a lot of traveling in one week! But I didn’t get that it was every week.

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        1. JustCuz*

          I just went on a work trip that had a 10 hour flight, a 1.5 hour layover, a 2 hour connecting flight, a 40 minute drive to the location. Then a 6 hour drive to another country and then an hour 8 drive back to the original country to a different city, AND THEN a 3 hour drive back to the airport. Took a 3 hour flight, 2 hour connecting, and then an 8 hour flight, except we sat on the tarmac for 3 hours more because the first class toilet was broken. And I thought that was a bit excessive lol but 100 hours! WOW. And also thats only like 3 days of not traveling out of 7. So likely they don’t travel like that every week.

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          1. Quoth the Raven*

            I’m based in Mexico City and there are destinations (such as South Africa, India, most of Southeast Asia, Russia, etc) involve 25-30 hours in transit between connections and actual flights. There are even some destinations within the United States that would involve 10-ish hours of travel all things considered without even accounting for driving and all. I can easily see a travel to such destinations being 100 hours-ish coming and going.

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          2. Gingerpop*

            I am confused too – I live in Australia and just did a work trip from here to Canada and that all up if you count getting the to airport etc was close to 30 hours – so this would be equivalent of Australia to Canada more than once a week? I assume they must be working on the plane (with the plane as their office?) otherwise how would they do a job on top of that on site.
            I keep thinking of the move Up In The Air…
            Also I wish I got business class lol. I am always in the back row when I travel for work :)

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            1. Ace in the Hole*

              I’m in a small town in the western US. Flying from my town to Ulanbataar (as a random example) would be 35-40 hours airport to airport each way, including layovers. Add 3 hours for getting to the airport and checking in, and a few hours getting from Ulanbataar airport to wherever the fieldwork location is… that’s approaching a 50 hour trip each way.

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            2. The traveler’s rest*

              Also I wish I got business class lol. I am always in the back row when I travel for work :)

              I love business travel and consider it an important part of any role I would consider. However, I will not take a role with a company that requires economy or Y+ travel for international flights or flights of over (say) four hours.

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          3. Disappointed with the Staff*

            Living in Australia I can well believe transit times measured in whole days :) It’s about a day from Sydney to London, for example.

            I’ve flown from Sydney to Geneva once, spent 3 days then flown back. Even business class it was no fun at all, even though it was “only” about 60 hours traveling in a week.

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          4. Anon OP*

            Yes, it’s not every week and its sometimes 100 hours but usually 60 – 80 (which chews up a lot of my weekends). I go to remote locations, so its the multiple connections that make it so long. Post-covid was a nightmare because there were not enough seats on planes, which meant travelling the “wrong” way around the world (as in the longer way to the destination) and having 22 hour stopovers and such. I think my worst trip (one way) was about 63 hours door to door? Its not that bad any more, but it is still a lot.

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            1. Ace in the Hole*

              I think a lot of people don’t realize how long it takes to get to remote places!

              I’m in a small city in the western US… even flying here domestically from a major city like New York is a 10 hour flight each way. And we’re a big enough population to have our own local airport!

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    3. NoCuteName*

      I’m American and my husband is British. We were invited to the wedding of one of his best friends but I was going to be over 7 months pregnant with our second child, and we lived in Dallas. My midwife said I could go only if I flew business class. Luckily at the time my husband flew enough for work that he was able to upgrade me (and only me) with his miles. It was British Airways and I could lay the seat down to a totally flat bed. It was amazing! So comfortable! I slept so well. And the food was pretty much on demand which was also very handy since at that stage of pregnancy I preferred to eat smaller servings but more frequently.

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    4. Lalchi11*

      I’m a little confused by the 100 hours in transit per week. There are only 168 hours in a 7-day period, so I’m not really sure how that much travel could be accomplished unless they are just constantly traveling, without any time to actually have meetings or anything at their destination.

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    1. Westruun*

      If an open office is a deal-breaker, it’s a deal-breaker — we should take the letter-writter at their word.

      (And to join the chorus, as someone who hires; yes, please state deal-breakers up-front! I appreciate people who don’t want to waste my time.)

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      1. amoeba*

        Sure, but as (at least in my field) more and more companies are moving towards open plan offices, it might be something to consider – basically, the way it was phased to us was “for super technical work that requires deep concentration, you can work from home, for meeting people, collaboration etc, you come to the office”.

        Actually, our open plan office is really pretty quiet and usually not busy at all (not much more than, say, 5 people in my “area” at the same time for most of the day – and only short/quiet conversations, the rest is taken to meeting rooms/think tanks, of which there are enough that you can usually find one.) It’s certainly much quieter than the four person shared office I had at my prior job!

        All that said, as long as there’s enough companies that do have private offices, absolutely, prioritise that! But in case you do find that limiting your options severely at some point in the future, there are very different kinds of open-plan offices, and some setups might work much better than others.

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        1. The Rural Juror*

          I work for an office with 250 employees where no one has a private office. When we moved locations and had a chance to redesign our working environment, we made phone rooms and “study hall” areas a priority. You can go to the phone room for private calls and the study halls for quiet and concentration. There have been several times where I go in study hall for 3 hours for heads down work and I’m the only one in that room the whole time. It’s been an awesome improvement.

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          1. Hannah Lee*

            One company I worked at had an open-ish office plan (the director had an office, as did the other director whose department was in the same wing we were in) but the rest of us had relatively open cubicles, But it worked already because there were plenty of small work rooms, conference rooms around so people could use them for conference calls or quiet work, etc.

            But then they relocated us to a new building, and ugh! it was awful. Everyone had open cubicles, with most of the cube dividers being 12″ above the work surface. So we were in direct sight and sound of ~75 other people and the corridor connecting 3 different wings of cubes. My introverted self leveraged my seniority and place in the cubicle selection order to choose a cubicle that was away from the main corridor, and had one side that faced a wall that ran along a minor corridor. I was still near the people I worked most closely with, but had hope of the noise and visual distractions, interrupts being okay enough that I could concentrate, stay focused when I needed to.
            But my director told me, because of my senior role, I needed to be in a more visible location, and closer to him so he could easily pull me into whatever he was doing for a consult if needed. The spot he insisted on was 1) along the main corridor (which meant constant distractions of people going by, people chatting, gathering, etc) 2) highly visible so that random people were stopping to chat and 3) next to him and our departments admin assistant, one of the only other women in the department besides me.

            At least 15 times a week, if Jane the AA happened to be away from her desk doing something, guess who random people would interrupt to ask about Director’s whereabouts / schedule, or the cafeteria hours, or for help unjamming the printer, with their expense reports, a clogged toilet? Naturally, the ‘girl’ who sits next to the other ‘girl’* who is the director’s assistant! Nothing to do with my own role and responsibilities, just a bunch of non-promotable helping tasks. Or specialized administrative tasks that Jane was a specialist in but that I wasn’t trained at and didn’t have time to do (or want to do) because I was a program manager.

            Lots of people assumed I was 100% there to help random people instead of work on my own job. (and of course, they did not like it or think well of me if I tried to redirect them to someone who was able to actually help them, so it was a lose-lose for me … I got interrupted AND had random people dragging me for being unhelpful/useless to them)

            *we were both professional women in our 30’s, very good at our actual jobs. They were just very different jobs. And I was hyper aware of the sexism in that company and knew any “helper” or administrative or “department hall monitor” behavior from me would lead to me being devalued as a manager and promotable employee.

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  3. cncx*

    I have two dealbreakers I mention in the phone screen. Because I won’t interview if they aren’t met – no driving, no hotdesking. If you literally won’t take a job over it, there is nothing to lose in terms of reputation in getting it out there.

    Once a company insisted on three rounds of interviews with me after i told them I would not drive to site visits (robust public transport). They were adamant all three rounds that they would find a way to work it out and boom, round three, driving was a problem.

    No driving is because my job already has long hours. I am a danger to myself and others if I pull a 12-16 hour day then have to drive a few hours. I sleep in the train or catch up on emails and admin.

    No hotdesking is because if I am expected 3-4 days in the office (I have 3-4 site visits a month) and have to play game of thrones for a desk when I am being forced to be there, no. My current employer has assigned desks for people with required presence and when I tell you it was the reason I took the job. My desk can be used by others when I am on a site visit, but it is my desk. Let the fully remote or four days HO duke it out, I need some kind of perk if I am forced to be there.

    Anyway tl;dr get those dealbreakers out early.

    Reply ↓
    1. Heidi*

      I don’t even think you need to provide a “good enough” reason why (although knowing the reason might help employers recognize what’s important to their job candidates). You’re allowed to have a deal-breaker for any reason, really.

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    2. 2 Cents*

      After experiencing hot desking for the 1 day I had to be in the office and the nightmare “system” in place to claim a seat (not to mention — more employees than seats), I can understand why this is a dealbreaker and I only had to deal with it for 1 day. (I wouldn’t have minded sharing an assigned desk split between 4 1-day-a-weekers, but playing musical chairs every.single.time. was such a time suck.)

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      1. Zephy*

        OldJob was part-time (for me), and eventually it got to the point where they had more of us in Role X than there were workstations. It seemed like the company had decided to replace all full-time workers with two part-timers upon the FT employee’s departure, presumably for cost-cutting reasons (PTs don’t get benefits, after all). The longer-tenured full-timers had particular offices that they preferred to work out of, but part of the transition to all-PT staff also involved a decree from upper management that There Are No Assigned Desks (for us rank-and-file peons, anyway; I bet the ops director would have felt some type of way if I had tried to use *his* office). The full-timers got really protective of their preferred spots, to the point that eventually the team lead had to write up a schedule every week with desk assignments and force the full-timers to work from different offices throughout the week.

        I think the only thing worse than hotdesking is *enforced* hotdesking (i.e., you have an assigned workstation, but it’s only assigned for that day and your assignment changes day-to-day/week-to-week, as opposed to a situation where this desk isn’t *officially* anyone’s but you end up sitting there every day).

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    3. Sloanicota*

      I’m debating if I agree there’s “nothing to lose” in getting it out there. I’d like it to be true, but I don’t think it’s foolish to acknowledge that the first few interviews are a vibes check, and if you come across as too prima donna-ish, it’s possible a hiring manager would conclude they wouldn’t like to work with you even if the company does actually offer the perk you want. I hope this is less of a thing these days. I know we used to get the advice that asking too much too early even about benefits etc is a turn-off for employers, something I think we’re slowing bringing around.

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      1. Disappointed with the Staff*

        I think it’s more about the edge cases. Companies who could be persuaded to offer that “perk” if the candidate persuaded the right people. Being up front might cost you an interview. But the flip side is that a company who needs to be persuaded to offer the bare minimum is likely to be problematic later on.

        Sure, it’s business class, but of course you’ll work a full day in the office after you landed from an 18 hour flight. You slept on the plane, and it’s a work day now. They paid for *business* *class* specifically so you can do that!

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        1. Boof*

          there very much is a factor that if a company has a lot of great candidates, little things like coming across as demanding at the outside might edge one out. I’m not saying that presenting dealbreakers up front is “demanding” more that it there is a bit of nuance in how one screens for deal breakers early; I can understand why the LW would want to feel out a good script from someone who does hiring!

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        2. cncx*

          Also if the company entertains the dealbreaker and frames it as a perk or a huge sacrifice, it can quickly turn into “look what we did for you” and cause issues down the road with raises or other courtesies. Which is another reason to just lay it out.

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          1. Smithy*

            I do think that for something like business class flights specifically – I do think that finding a company that has this as a standard for international flights or flights over X hours is likely going to suit the OP better vs a perk or accommodation. I know someone where they can book business class, but only for individual flights over 9 hours. This means that you can have two (or three) flights of 8.5 hours each and none of them qualify for business class.

            In that kind of a situation, being the person who gets to book all their flights business really risks putting them at odds with colleagues but also frankly for a new fiscal year to circle around and being told that the perk is going away. Whereas if it’s a company wide policy for all international flights or all people on X team or with Y job, and there’s talk of that option going away – then it’s a larger employer conversation and not one person’s budget line.

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        3. Hannah Lee*

          The other thing is that you can’t control how the person you happen to bring it up to the first time will spin it to other people in the decision making process. If that one person happens to be on the parsimonious side of things, or not really familiar with the nature of the work or something else, they could communicate your completely reasonable up front clarification of your 1-2 must haves as “ugh, this candidate was making all kinds of demands about what THEY needed and what THEY expected, and we hadn’t even gotten through the basic screening interviews”

          It may make sense to *ask* about the travel policy and the office set up, just to get some intel, but then wait until your further along in the process or meeting with the potential manager to lay out your deal breakers.

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      2. amoeba*

        I mean, I guess for some/most things you don’t need to frame them as a dealbreaker, you can just ask them as something you’re interested in (like Alison suggested: “Oh, what’s the office setup like? Do you hot-desk, is it open-plan or cubicles?”) or “do people typically drive? Public transport seems to be really good, do you use it a lot?”

        That gives you the answer you need without coming across primadonna-ish…

        For hotdesking specifically, I’d also check if it’s hotdesking *on paper* or whether people *actually* change desks every day… in our case, we theoretically have it, but literally everybody sits at the same desk every single day (there are enough desks, luckily, but some are closer to the windows etc. – doesn’t matter, people still always take the one they’re used to, even if ithere’s a slightly “better” one available that day!)

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      3. SunnyShine*

        Sounds like OP is at a high level that her expectations are normal for the job, especially since she is aware of what companies are doing in her field. If she loses out on a job because of these expectations, then the company isn’t for her. It reflects poorly on the company who expects someone to travel 60+ hours in economy.

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  4. A*

    I think the LW would be better off accepting that anybody with dealbreakers will come across as high maintenance to some people. If you put 10 people in a room and asked them to define high maintenance you would get 10 different answers.

    The key to issues like this is for the LW to be confident is what they are requesting. If the LW is confident asking for first class plane tickets and genuinely thinks it is a reasonable requirement for their role, then ask for that with confidence even if people think it’s high maintenance.

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    1. Kevin Sours*

      That can hit different when you are just a name on a list of resumes vs after you’ve made an impression and people are already envisioning how you would work as part of the team.

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    2. Elle*

      It’s a bit funny that you spent two paragraphs calling the LW high maintenance but didn’t seem to catch that they’re asking for business class, not first. Business class is, y’know, for -business travelers- because it includes the comfort upgrades that make frequent travel more comfortable without the luxuries included in first.

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    3. metadata minion*

      It sounds like most companies do offer business-class tickets; they just want to make sure they’re not going to one of the minority that don’t.

      And frankly almost everybody has dealbreakers. It’s just that in a lot of cases you can screen them out based on the job description.

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      1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        This! My dealbreaker is long driving commutes. I’ll do a short drive. I’ll do a long public transit commute. And I’m in a major metro area where it’s possible! So once I know the job is in xyz location, I can just self-select out of even working with the recruiter. My very first questions to any recruiter are who, how much, and where. I won’t talk until I know those things.

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  5. thatsjustme*

    Out of curiosity, is business class that much better? I would think it’d be more valuable/important to be able to pick your airline, go for the more conveniently timed flight, minimize layovers, choose which airport to fly out of (in areas with multiple options), that sort of thing. But I don’t travel for work, so I really wouldn’t know.

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    1. Westruun*

      For what I’m assuming is international travel, given the transit times? Absolutely business class is a game-changer in terms of ability to function during and after a long flight.

      (I’m someone who does travel internationally for work a fair bit, sadly almost always economy.)

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      1. thatsjustme*

        Oh yeah, if these are international flights — and that 100-hour stat suggests that might be the case — business class makes a lot of sense.

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    2. ThatGirl*

      Business class is often what used to be called first class, and depending on the airline and type of plane it can be a HUGE difference in comfort level. Let’s trust that LW knows what they want/need.

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      1. Pomodoro Sauce*

        I think we can both trust the LW and seek insight from the commentariat on whether business class is worth spending money for — I wouldn’t normally consider it, but I value the information people are providing here on how it’s useful for them.

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        1. ThatGirl*

          Sure, just saying that I would trust someone who is THAT frequent of a flyer to know the difference and know if it was worth it. Heck, I travel for business like once a year, domestically, and even that is tiring – if I frequently took long-haul flights you better believe the upgrade would make a difference.

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      2. Fool's Gold*

        They’re not questioning whether OP *should* consider it that much better, just interested in the details as to why

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      3. Ann O'Nemity*

        Business class is more comfortable. And on some international flights, the difference is night and day! Plus the business class lounge.

        Plus the way airlines prioritize customers if anything goes awry! When a flight gets cancelled, the airlines prioritize by class – first, business, refundable economy, etc, etc all the way done to the deeply discounted tickets. Having a first class fare can absolutely make the difference between being on the next flight out or sleeping in the airport for 2 days.

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        1. Ellie*

          It can be a game changer if you have any kind of disability as well, even something like being unusually tall, or having a bad back. If the job required 100+ hours of travel some weeks, I’d insist on business class too.

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          1. allathian*

            I’m about 5 ft 8 in tall, so not exceptionally so even for a woman, but I have a short torso and arms and exceptionally long legs, 35 in inseam, so even long sizes look short on me. I’m also fat. I still fit in a single seat but the padding on my butt pushes me enough forwards that I don’t fit in economy anymore, I’d be sitting with my knees against the seat in front.

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          2. Frankie*

            Or even have dietary restrictions or allergies which are accommodated by the lounges much more often than airport restaurants.

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        2. Hannah Lee*

          It also helps if you’ve got a plane change with tight connections or not a lot of time between landing and your first business commitment.

          When I was traveling a lot, the hot breakfast in business class (vs the roll and jelly or granola bar or nothing that economy got) meant I was able have “real” food before a day of meetings instead of being super hungry or stressing myself trying to find something (that I could get without being late AND pay for easily … given that credit card acceptance, currency exchange weren’t always free, easy or possible everywhere back in the day) on the way to my meeting in an unfamiliar city.

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    3. Toodle Pip*

      In a dozen years of traveling for work, I got sent business class exactly once, and omg did it ever make a difference. All the things you listed are important too, but for me the level of comfort was the difference between sleeping most of the flight and not, which had me starting my two weeks of overseas meetings fresh rather than feeling like death.

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      1. LifebeforeCorona*

        A family member retired and their one indulgence is travelling business or first class. They paid the difference for me on one trip. The departure lounge with the amenities, the pre-boarding, the inflight service and food were all amazing. You actually felt like a human and not a seat number.

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    5. A*

      I think for domestic flights the physical size of business class doesn’t make that much of a difference. Once you get into international flights, yeah, the extra room in business class is really, really nice.

      It’s entirely possible the LW is flying internationally for work and wants the leg room.

      If these are a bunch of domestic flights I think the real advantage is in the better customer service. If you are dealing with a higher likelihood of delays, cancellations, etc I can see also wanting better service.

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      1. Ellie*

        OP mentions staying in mud huts and tents. My immediate thought was flying internationally to remote locations, where you absolutely want priority service when things go wrong, e.g. weather events, delayed flights, customs, etc.

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    6. Sar*

      You know how air travel is kind of uncomfortable?

      In business class, it’s not.

      (Source: Have gotten upgraded like 3x in my life, including once when I was 12, and it’s still a core memory.)

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      1. Elizabeth West*

        *sigh* The best I’ve ever managed was premium economy on British Airways, which was pretty nice. It was a lot like economy USED to be — big seats, legroom. Plus we got the Business class meal (with wine! And cutlery!). It also had a separate area from regular economy, unlike Delta’s premium, which was just a few inches more legroom in the front of the economy section and a hot towel (not worth it at all).

        We weren’t allowed to use their bathroom, though, darn it. I actually got some sleep on the overnight flight, as it wasn’t crowded and I was able to stretch out a little. I hope to fly business class someday…

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        1. The traveler’s rest*

          Economy seat width has (mostly) stayed the same on planes since the 707. There were some early 707s that were 3-2, and some early 747s that were 3-4-2.

          The only other exception is 10 abreast 777s.

          Seat pitch is what has changed.

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      2. Bee*

        I took my first-ever first class flight last year – on a 90min flight where the first class upgrade was $10 more than the cost to check a bag – and oh boy, even on a 90min flight it was a HUGE difference. Those seats were like armchairs!!

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        1. Lisa*

          I paid $100 to upgrade to First on a 4 hour flight last year and it was fantastic. Not amazing enough to pay the usual price, but for $25/hour for the experience it was worth it. I can see how for someone who travels a ton it would make a huge difference in their ability to actually do their job once they got there and in their quality of life.

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      3. Llellayena*

        I’m weird. My most UNcomfortable flight was in business class (or whatever the equivalent was for AA domestic). I’m petite and the width of the seat (and the fact that it dipped toward the middle) meant that I wasn’t near either of the armrests. I also couldn’t touch the floor so my feet were dangling and my knees complained. The plush headrest pushed my head forward bending my neck awkwardly. The “hot meal” I was provided was a frozen microwave beef meal (which was all that was left when they got to me) and made me queasy. I did not have access to the menu from the economy class which had a very tasty hummus and veggies which I had had on the flight out. So I’m happy with my crappy economy seat.

        All that said, if it’s a deal-breaker, then bring it up early. Each person is different in what will work for them and it’s worth getting the fit right.

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        1. cktc*

          Short people unite! I had to endure 12 hours in business class once. It was not an upgrade. The seats reclined to *almost* flat, which meant I slid down until my feet touched the footrest and all the exciting ergonomic bumps were in the wrong place on my back. The tray table being in the armrest meant I could not swing it up to put my legs on the vacant seat next to me. I was honestly more comfortable on the return flight when I was in economy with two empty seats next to me.

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        2. Nightengale*

          I’ve never flown business class but I’ve been put, not by choice, in similar large seats up front in a train. I’m short and also have some quirky neurological disabilty stuff where I do better if my legs can feel the seat in front of me. Putting the tray table down is even better. The amount of explaining I have to do when people see I use a cane and therefore definitely DON’T want the larger legroom nothing in front of them accessible seats. ..

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          1. Freya*

            I have flown business class, and the one time I was upgraded to a front row seat was absolute torture, because my short legs don’t reach the ground, and in the front row they don’t have a seat in front of you to put your carry on luggage under (I choose my carry on luggage based on what makes a good footrest). And the seats are deep enough that the only way my knees were at the edge was if I was slumped and making my back ache because there are insufficient pillows to take up that extra space for both back and head (and having the weight of your lower legs being supported by your calf resting on the edge of the seat is a recipe for numb legs within a short period of time, much less the hours that domestic Australian flights can be).

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      4. No Tribble At All*

        Also you get access to the business class lounge. The one time I did it, it had a free buffet, showers with lockers, and comfy armchairs with plugs at every chair. I would like to live in an airport lounge.

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          1. Lisa*

            If you’re in the US, there are credit cards that give you free access to many lounges. I got one when I was suddenly traveling twice a month and do not regret it for a minute.

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        2. Elsajeni*

          I imagine this in itself makes a big difference for someone traveling a) as much as the OP and b) to and from worksites where they might be staying in a tent! The rougher the actual work conditions are, the more sense it makes to me to maximize comfort during the time you spend en route to your tent.

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        3. General von Klinkerhoffen*

          My youngest child still talks about the automatic pancake machines in the Alaska lounge.

          Other non-obvious benefits on that particular flight included priority boarding and guaranteed cabin baggage. Both of those can be very important if you want to get through the airport quickly on arrival.

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      5. BekaRosselinMetadi*

        My mom and dad and I got upgraded when I was 16 and it’s pretty much a core memory for me as well. I’ve flown first a handful of times since then-when it was cheap to upgrade or they did it to me but that first time was amazing. And it was a five hour flight!

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        1. Sar*

          My 12 yo one went from being an evening direct flight to a morning flight with a layover (we got bumped to the next day, hence the upgrade) from the east coast to Arizona. The layover meant we were on planes for both breakfast and lunch (yes, Virginia; with real cutlery). I am pretty sure those flights were the first time I had both tricolor pasta (I was a picky kid) and chocolate truffles. Possibly the best part was that we got the little box of chocolate truffles on the first leg after breakfast and another one on the second leg after lunch.

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    7. Heidi*

      I flew business class for the first time last year. One thing that made it more comfortable is that each person has their own little pod with high walls around it so that you don’t really see anyone else and other people can’t really see you when everyone is seated. That extra bit of privacy really made a difference, and I don’t think I realized how much it mattered before experiencing it myself.

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    8. Benihana scene stealer*

      You can do all those things with business class flights too. Especially if it’s for international travel, it really is exponentially better

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      1. UKDancer*

        Yes, especially if it’s long haul. I mean for 1-2 hours it probably makes little difference. If it’s an overnight flight then business class involving a lie-flat bed can make the difference between sleeping and not sleeping on the journey.

        I flew business class to the Maldives which was a really long flight from the UK and it was really good having a bed to stretch out on and meant I slept and arrived feeling rested and ready for my holiday.

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    9. sparkle emoji*

      Aside from the things already mentioned, business class is often an earlier boarding group, which means a better chance of getting a spot for your carry on in the overhead. That means no messing around with gate check or checked luggage. It would cut down a little on how much time is spent at an airport, which can be worth it for this volume of travel.

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      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        Earlier boarding group and also often priority boarding and bag handling if you check a bag. Plus access to the priority service desk if something goes wrong and you need help rebooking a flight.

        I am completely willing to trade money for convenience and comfort and to have accumulated enough miles and points over the past few years to get free upgrades to “economy plus” and priority boarding/baggage check. For overseas flights I still prefer business class.

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    10. BW*

      Business class for overseas flights is a BED. A flat BED. And sometimes a small private room about the size of a cubicle, with walls. And better food.

      Economy plus might have a chair that reclines a little further than normal and a footrest, maybe. But you’re still bumping elbows with the person next to you. You’ll never touch the other person in Business class.

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    11. Beth*

      As a tall person, I would (possibly literally) kill to be able to fly business class regularly. Economy is incredibly uncomfortable. I put up with it because the alternative is not traveling, and that’s not really an option, but if I had any means of getting a more spacious seat I would love to do it.

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      2. Rogue Slime Mold*

        As my body has developed mobility issues and I don’t bend so well, the amount of legroom suddenly now has a huge impact on how much I hobbled getting off the plane. When I was a small flexible 20 year old, no real difference.

        And the one time I had a midday flight in lie flat seats? Oh my word, if it were feasible I would only fly between places offering that option. You can lie down; you can stand up and do a little stretching; you can turn sideways and just bump the walls of your cubicle, not the other passengers.

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      3. Quoth the Raven*

        I arrange for travel for guests attending a convention I work for, and many times the request to fly business is based on the person’s size. We’ve had guests who are 6’5”-6’8” or who are bulkier or heavier who definitely would not be able to fly economy comfortably, let alone when flying transatlantic.

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    12. PokemonGoToThePolls*

      Also if you have to work on your computer during the flight, it is infinitely easier in business class – the tray tables will have more space, you’re more likely to have an outlet, and just have space in general.

      You also, on international flights, you have lounge access (OP almost certainly would have it anyway due to status with various airlines, too), and this makes a big difference if you have long, back to back flights to be able to shower and relax somewhere much more comfortable.

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      1. Sloanicota*

        Lately on my flights you can’t put a laptop on the tray table – it’s in your face. Sometimes it’s because of the passenger in front of you fully reclining, but sometimes it’s not … :(

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        1. PokemonGoToThePolls*

          Yeah if you’re any bigger than petite I think it would be hard to work on a laptop in economy, period, unless you have a very small laptop

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    13. sb51*

      For people like sales staff doing heavy traveling, the company makes more money if they’re always on their A-game — never jetlagged, never rumpled, etc. So biz class flights, the hotel does your drycleaning, fancy airport lounges with sofas and showers and meals, taxis rather than public transit even when it’s somewhere with good transit, etc. And values their time at home, so a plane seat they can sleep in rather than flying out the night before so they can be rested is their preference.

      The regular employee who gets sent once in a blue moon for technical expertise to another worksite goes economy and isn’t expected to be completely coherent the first morning, and maybe even tacks on some vacation days to see [other location].

      I do think, if the LW worries that they might get an HR employee who doesn’t understand why this would matter, that phrasing it as “I’m more effective on travel when I can arrive refreshed, and thus this is important to me” makes it clearer that it’s not LW being fussy.

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    14. Allison K*

      I’ve traveled for work for years, racking up enough miles to have status and upgrades, and I buy business class when I can’t get it with a certificate or by buying my flight with miles. It’s worth it to be able to sleep, lounge access, faster service at check in, boarding first and/or with dedicated bin space, getting off the plane first, and having delays, missed bags, rerouting, all handled without hassle. For example, flying into an airport about to have a snowstorm, the crew announced no more flights would be leaving that night, so no connections. When the plane landed, I was already rebooked for the next morning with hotel vouchers in my email, rather than joining the long line of everyone else who had the same problem at the overwhelmed ticket counter.

      I had a lot of tricks to make economy comfortable, but business is a whole different experience with a lot less waiting around. (and when my husband and I do a fun trip on an airline I don’t have status with, I take the middle seat in economy so he gets the aisle :) )

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    15. BeenThereDoneThat*

      If it’s overseas, then yes. It’s a huge difference. I’ve flown internationally in both coach, premium coach, and business class. Being able to lie down in business class an incredible difference in arriving more rested and being better able to hit the ground running. There is no comparison.

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    16. Lady Danbury*

      Business class is ABSOLUTELY a game changer!!!! The quality of rest that I can get in a lay flat seat vs a regular coach seat doesn’t even compare. If I need to work, I have plenty of space to do so. Most of the factors that you mention can be worked around regardless of airline class. But none of them beat the overall comfort of business class vs coach.

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    17. NotARealManager*

      It can be, but a lot depends on the airline, aircraft, and flight time.

      For example, my economy international flight with Lufthansa was nicer than my first class domestic flight with Alaska Airlines.

      I’ve also gotten to fly business class internationally with Lufthansa (because the airline messed up on the EU side where they have robust travel protections for passengers) and it was a luxury.

      These days I would say a lot of US domestic business class is what economy used to feel like when I was a kid (in the 90s). So I understand why someone with a lot of travel for work would want at least that standard.

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    18. Zephy*

      Short answer: Yes.

      Longer answer: Business class seats are generally roomier and more comfortable, and they serve you real food, actual hot meals, not just the biscoff crackers or crappy snack boxes they’ll sell to you in coach. On some airlines, the business-class seats fully recline, so you can lie flat and actually get some amount of sleep on the plane, so you’re a little more refreshed and ready to work when you land.

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    19. Anon OP*

      Yes! It’s so much more comfortable for long haul. Proper lay flat seats is the main thing for me to get some z’s, but also there’s enough room to set up your laptop comfortably and do some work (may as well while trapped in a tin can). I like not climbing over people / being climbed over to get to the bathrooms. Also little things like they will heat up a meal at the time of your choice, which I find great when my body clock is all out of whack. The lounges help a lot, you can actually rest and have a shower and maybe a massage which is blissful.

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    20. amoeba*

      In business class, you can usually (?) basically convert your seat to a completely flat “bed” – that would be a *huge* game changer for me for overnight flights, as I cannot for the life of me sleep when sitting up. So it would basically be the difference between a good night’s sleep and sitting awake for 16 h. I really don’t need any of the other benefits, my legs are way too short for legroom to be any kind of factor, better food is nice but certainly not worth the extra cost (you can buy a lot of nice food at the airport for the price difference to economy!), but being able to sleep, yes.

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    21. Freya*

      My legs are too short to reach the floor in cattle class, so the bigger seats and extra leg room in business class aren’t that big a deal to me. But if you’re average sized or bigger, it’s definitely worth it if you want to be less frazzled when you land – if you want to check out the actual seat sizes, there’s website like seatguru (an international flight in a Qantas Airbus will have seats 17.2 or 17.5 inches wide in economy and 21.5 or 23 inches wide in business class, for example. My legs are 17″ wide at the widest when I’m sitting down, and I’m smaller than average).

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    22. Elle*

      If you don’t travel for work, is it reasonable to question the LW, who travels up to a hundred hours per week for work, over the validity their chosen method of coping?

      Reply ↓
  6. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

    In my case it’s 100% remote work ONLY, and that’s a disability accommodation I need. With it, I can do great work; without it, I can’t work at all. So I do talk about it up front.

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    1. WindmillArms*

      Same! I know there are plenty of people who think I was being picky or entitled or “high maintenance” by having this as a dealbreaker, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is one for me. When I was last job hunting, I asked it upfront every single time I talked to a recruiter/HR/hiring manager and now I have a 100% remote role.

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  7. Heather*

    I think this is more about finding the right time to bring up your dealbreakers. When the person running the interview talks about the role and expectations, company culture, or priorities in the role, you can naturally ask questions that you need.
    Example, “You mentioned that this role requires heavy travel, what are the typical travel arrangements made on behalf of employees in this role so they are rested and productive?” or “It seems that the in-person requirements sound very fair and balanced. How are spaces for in-person work assigned?”
    You don’t have to be agressive, just use the points the company brings up to get the information you need.

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    1. Evergreen*

      Yes, this! This is a great way to build rapport early on, and from there at offer stage you can underline that these two things are dealbreakers for you. Raising them as dealbreakers immediately, before you’ve really talked about the role and the culture as a whole would turn me off as the hiring manager.

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  8. pedantic but genuinely curious autistic person*

    Out of curiosity, why do you define this as “satisficing”? That doesn’t match my understanding of the term, but I haven’t seen many others use it in context so I’m trying to figure out if I need to update.

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    1. Hlao-roo*

      I’m not the letter-writer, but my understanding is the “satisficers” are what a person needs to make something “good enough” (as opposed to “maximizers,” which make something “the best”).

      If the job doesn’t have these two “satisficers,” then it will not be good enough and the LW won’t accept an offer. If the job does have these two “satisficers,” then it will be good enough (but maybe not “the best job offer possible”) and the LW will consider accepting an offer.

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      1. Anon OP*

        Yep, that’s exactly the mental model I was using — satisficers vs. maximizers! I probably could’ve / should’ve just said “dealbreakers” or “non-negotiables,” but I liked the nuance of satisficers because for me, it’s really just about reaching a baseline. Once that bar is met, I’m not trying to optimize further. So if my criteria were “must have a carpark,” I’d be happy with any carpark. I wouldn’t then turn around and try to negotiate for a bigger one or a valet or something. The box is ticked, I’m done. It’s just a filter, not part of some slippery slope of escalating requests. (Though I’ve been reading this column long enough to know carparks can be serious currency in some offices )

        Allison is exactly right of course – I need to be comfortable that I *am* misaligned with some companies, and if they think I’m a princess about it, it’s not the end of the world.

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      2. Anon OP*

        Also, I guess I didn’t quite think of it as a “dealbreaker” because I’m not trying to strike a deal, either it’s how the company operates or it’s not. I don’t want to be the lone outlier who flies business and bounces off the plane refreshed while my teammates emerge from long-haul economy like a cat after a vet visit—stiff, grumpy, and deeply betrayed. :P

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    2. Sloanicota*

      I agree I’d always heard it as the opposite of optimizing, which seems a bit different than how OP is using it here.

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      1. doreen*

        The way I’ve always heard it is that the OP ( as the person making the decision) would be the “satisficer” if they were looking for a “good enough” option just like the OP would be the “maximizer” if they were trying to find the best option .

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        1. Freya*

          It’s the difference between looking for good enough and looking for perfect. Good enough gets the job done, the search for perfect is never finished.

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          1. Isabel Archer*

            I’m fairly certain these exact terms originated with the book “The Paradox of Choice,” by Barry Schwartz. Came out at least 10 years ago, maybe more.

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    3. Bluenyx*

      Interesting answers here- I learned it as a political science term for “thing that doesn’t solve the problem but is the best we can do (because of politics)”. So, it’s something that isn’t good enough/satisfactory, but it’s better than nothing.

      e.g. global warming needs us to cut emissions by x% to make any difference in its speed, but we can only pass a bill to cut it by half x.

      Not sure if it has other uses closer to “good enough”.

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      1. Bluenyx*

        I did notice OP seems to use it like “minimum acceptable terms”, so, close to my understanding, but a little different in their context. (I mostly think that it’s fascinating as a poli-sci concept so wanted to share.)

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      2. Freya*

        I first heard it in a subject at uni – couldn’t tell you which one, unfortunately. Something that had management in the title? It was being used in the context of getting good enough work out of people (including oneself) rather than trying to get everyone to perfect.

        The big thing I took away from that lecture was that getting eight assignments good enough and handed in was better than getting one perfect and doing nothing on the others, or getting several perfect and having a breakdown with the stress and lack of sleep. As the saying here goes, P’s make degrees! (Passing is good enough to finish, so do the subject and move on)

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    4. Audrey Puffins*

      I just assumed it was a typo for “satisfiers”, this thread has been very educational for me :)

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  9. Ugh*

    I’m having trouble envisioning 20 hours per workday in transit – that leaves 5 hours of work, and no hours of sleep? Maybe it’s 100 hours per month? At any rate, I think in the 2nd interview is a good time to ask. Say “I believe in being as economical as possible, whenever possible, but do want to ask about the travel accommodations. Because of the sheer amount of travel, and time zone differences, I’ve found that flying economy doesn’t allow for the restful travel or sleeping in transit, and in order to be energetic and productive as soon as landing, I’ve found that business class allows for that. Is that something you generally allow for expensing?” But shorter.

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    1. CB212*

      That’s more than NYC to Sydney R/T twice in a week! I expect I’m not envisioning the right kind of transit. But I really can’t imagine 100 hours on planes and still having workdays on the ground. May this kind of career never find me!

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    2. AF Vet*

      I was thinking more along the lines of “I need to check on this clinic in sub-Saharan Africa in a town only accessible by Bicycle or 4WD. To get there from my home in Tennessee, I have to fly to DC or NYC, catch an international flight to Dakar via Amsterdam and Morocco, then ride that bus through the jungle for 12 hours, meet up with my contact who will drive us out to the clinic – which is another 3 hours when the road isn’t washed out.”

      I moved a cargo plane from the US to a location in SE Asia. It took 2 crews 4 days total flying time – and would have taken longer with one crew because of crew rest.

      Hopefully, this version of Planes, Trains, and Automobiles isn’t repeated weekly, but I can easily see where if the situation was like this, I’d be expecting Business or First Class every flight I could manage.

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      2. Jane*

        Maybe I’m wrong but I sort of feel like with THAT type of job it’s just not going to be a “phone screen with HR” type deal. Like you either get head hunted or you know the person who did the job before. you know what I mean?

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        1. Gentle_parrot*

          The international humanitarian aid sector is a professionalized industry like any other. You find a job on Indeed, you submit your CV, you do an interview, you deploy.

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      3. Anon OP*

        Yep very much along these lines, compounded by being based somewhere much smaller and more remote than the US with limited flight options and consequently long layovers.
        Its not as bad as 100 hours every week, but very commonly I get on a plane Saturday, get somewhere Monday, leave Friday afternoon and land Sunday evening. If the travel is booked last minute then I might have to fly through some pretty crazy multi country connections that can add a day to the journey. Planes, Trains and Automobiles indeed! It just eats my weekends for about 4 months a year, but the remuneration reflects that, and I enjoy this part of my work. (I travel the rest of the year as well, but not as intensely).

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        1. Sara*

          OK, so OP, would you mind telling us if this is a non-profit or for-profit industry? For for-profit jobs, business class under these conditions seems entirely reasonable, but for charities I can see how the optics may be bad if employees are flying business to help people living in mud huts. I’m not judging you at all, I’d also refuse to do flights like this Economy class, but I think the optics of the request might be different depending on the industry.

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        2. TQB*

          OP, for what it’s worth I think the way you articulated your dealbreakers in your letter seems perfectly fine and reasonable to me!

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    3. Roland*

      I thought it meant more than 100 hours “away from home” rather than literally in a plane/train/taxi. That or, as you say, a typo for “month”.

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    4. Snax*

      No, trust the letter writer here, I used to work in global health and… 100 hours per week is a thing that can happen, definitely not a typo for month! Not every week, but I had multiple weeks with multiple US to Europe to remote reaches of Asia or far south Sub-Saharan Africa or BOTH. Business class travel would’ve made that way less physically painful.

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    5. Wednesday wishes*

      Me too! 100 hours per week? I don’t even think the flight crew spends that much time traveling!

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      1. Pescadero*

        My uncle used to be a professional pilot for Northwest/Delta.

        He flew about 80 flight hours per month (FAA limit is 100 hours) – in a 12 day stretch.

        …but 80 flight hours is about 120 work hours, not including travel. So call it 10 hour working days.

        …and he lived in Detroit, but flew out of Guam – so ~40 hours of air travel, then 12 days away from home working 10 hour days, then ~40 hours of air travel back.

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  10. sofar*

    There’s always the chance that a company that DOES offer business class flights would reject a candidate for asking about it. A former boss of mine got really bent out of shape when people would ask about things like standard working hours before an offer was made. He axed a candidate for asking, “Is there a company-wide start time, or flex hours?”

    That company actually had an EXTREMELY generous flex hours policy (where you could start literally any time between 7am and 10am and no meetings were allowed until 10), but it bothered him when people asked this “too early” because they were “thinking too much about the creature comforts of the role, and you need to knock it out of the park and have an offer in hand before you start asking what’s in it for you.”

    He’s probably an outlier, but I suppose it could happen. We always had a glut of candidates for any given role, so he was kind of allowed to be unreasonable like that.

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      1. Elizabeth West*

        Haha, yeah.
        I need my own desk. If I can’t have one, that’s a dealbreaker. I cannot deal with hotdesking, especially if I have to use a stinking app. You want me in the office, let me make my space work for me!

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        1. Aww, coffee, no*

          Same here. I actually prefer working in the office to WFH (for starters, I’m not the one paying to heat the office which, in Scotland, is a definite cost) but as a result hotdesking is a total deal-breaker for me. I’m blowed if I’m going to spend five days a week finding a desk and setting it up the way I like it. Not to mention wanting to have my jar of coffee, packet of sweets, favourite coffee mug, spare cardigan, etc all handily waiting for me at, you know, *my* desk each morning.

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    2. sofar*

      ETA: I guess you could see this as “bullet dodged,” but what was odd is that this guy was a REALLY good boss to work for, who encouraged people to take long lunches, encouraged “dipping out early” on Fridays and was super involved as a dad and flexible with parents. He just had this odd hangup about people seeming “high maintenance.”

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      1. mlem*

        It’s probably old-school business paternalism. He was generous but wanted that to be something he was *giving* because he was so great, not something he was expected to provide routinely.

        (The company I work for has pretty good benefits but used to have a firm policy of walking you out if you tried to give two weeks of notice because doing so meant “the trust is gone”. You were expected to work with your supervisor if you were dissatisfied, mutually exploring whether there was any way the company could use you in another role and, if not, keeping the company involved in your process to soften the loss when you left. It’s a boggling mindset, but it used to be entirely common in the industry. They could be generous but they *absolutely* wanted that to be only at their initiative.)

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        2. Bast*

          I think as a supervisor it’s naive to expect that people will not quit a job if they find something that’s a better fit. You should EXPECT that people are looking, at least passively and while striving to make the company the best you can, acknowledge that there doesn’t have to be something “wrong” for people to leave. Someone could really love their job, but not be able to logically pass up a ridiculously high wage, shorter commute, better benefits, etc. There is nothing *wrong* at my current job and I quite like it, but if I won the Mega Millions tomorrow I can’t guarantee I’d be here the day after. XD

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      2. Jay (no, the other one)*

        Reminds me of the post from early on when Alison eviscerated people who thought it was inappropriate to ask about salary during the interview process because it made it look like you were “working for the money.” Um, yeah, I am. “What’s in it for me” is a job that I am satisfied with and want to remain in, which means that what’s in it for the employer is an employee they are likely to retain. He may have been good to work for as a boss. As an interviewer he was a bit of a jerk.

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      3. Rogue Slime Mold*

        I suspect the number of bosses with self-defeating quirks (e.g. Our company offers an excellent salary, but we won’t speak with anyone who would actually ask about money) is vastly outnumbered by the ones who have those weird quirks because they are trying to prevent you learning information that would lead you to turn down an offer. The “quirk” is to try to get the sunk cost fallacy working in their favor.

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        1. Bast*

          This is so weird. Salary is like… why people work. We work for the money 99% of the time and to pretend we don’t is foolish. As a result, one of my dealbreakers is companies who won’t be transparent about salary. I do have a bare minimum of what I can accept and still be able to pay my bills, and if you’re paying say, 20k under that there’s not even a point in negotiating, and no point in interviewing — it just wastes everyone’s time.

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    3. Bast*

      People like this always confuse me, because I’m betting he got his nose bent out of shape if someone asked about salary too. Why would you want to waste time getting to interview 2, 3 or beyond if someone is a fundamental mismatch? All it does is waste everyone’s time.

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    4. CareerChanger*

      The person losing out on the good opportunity here is the boss losing out on a good hire who had a reasonable question.

      Reply ↓
    5. thatsjustme*

      He’s an outlier and probably not a boss I want to work for. It’s very weird that he thinks asking questions about the working conditions is uncouth or fussy in some way. That’s the whole point of the process!

      You’re probably right about him being able to be unreasonable like that if you’ve got a glut of candidates, and he’s forgotten that hiring is a two-way street. It’s supposed to be a mutual agreement, and he’s acting like he’s generously bestowing a job on one lucky contestant who’s shown they’re pure of heart.

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    6. Audra*

      > before you start asking what’s in it for you
      God forbid I want to know what it’s in it for me. You know, in a job that I’ll be doing for THEM.

      Reply ↓
  11. Landry*

    Keep in mind that your dealbreakers are things that can change after you’re hired. Not necessarily in a bait-and-switch kind of way, either. More along the lines of, “We had money in the travel budget to give you business class in May. Now it’s August, our finances are much different and we will need you to fly economy only.” Same thing with open plan office — you never quite know when a business might change locations, reduce space, etc. because of their overall needs. They’re probably not going to tiptoe around your desire to sit in a certain spot on the airplane or have a private office.

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    1. Sloanicota*

      I did think that too, unfortunately. With RTOs and conversion to cubes, you can’t be sure of much when you take a job. I’ve had a new CFO come in and shake up all the travel rules, I’ve had new managers with new understandings, and I’ve had companies sign up with weird corporate travel agencies that seem to be operated by aliens on Mars.

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    2. Disappointed with the Staff*

      Or you move to new offices because you have more/fewer staff. My boss built a new factory with bigger office space (etc) and because he likes to manage by wandering round talking to people it’s all open plan. He can look up, see the person he wants to talk to, wait for them to get off the phone or whatever, then wander over and talk. It’s great. It works really well. For him.

      The floor is mostly full of engineers who do complex tasks that take days or weeks to complete. Most of us spend at least an hour getting the necessary state into our heads before we can even *start* working. Or we spend that hour, the boss walks over and now it’s gone. So we have a five minute conversation then start loading that state again.

      I WFH now, and judging by the background conversations I hear from my team lead when he’s in the office things have got worse since I left. There’s more staff, there’s more managers, there’s more conversations more often. Having to be in the office would be a dealbreaker for me (or they’d fire me once it became obvious I can’t work in those conditions)

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  12. married to sasquatch*

    My partner has to travel internationally for work about once a year; when he was in the hiring process, he asked about getting business class for flights. His boss said they don’t normally allow it, but ended up writing it into my partner’s contract so that he always would have business class for work travel, in order to get my partner to accept the job.

    I will say, partner is basically a sasquatch at 6 ft 7 in tall, so literally doesn’t fit in normal economy, but it was an understandable dealbreaker. If they hadn’t and he still had taken the job, he was going to look into it as an accommodation. The man’s muscles seize up horribly every time we’ve taken economy.

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    1. Jill Swinburne*

      They probably took one look at the guy and thought, ‘yeah, fair enough.’ 6’7” in economy would be GRIM.

      Reply ↓
    2. RLC*

      Saw similar with colleagues who were 6’5” and 6’7” granted exceptions to “rental car must be the cheapest option available”. These men could not safely fit into a small economy sedan much less drive it. Did lead to some amusing photo ops with said colleagues posing at job sites with enormous Lincoln sedans, GMC Yukon SUVs, and similar vehicles. We quickly learnt “let tall colleagues select the rental cars”.

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      1. Freya*

        I remember a friend picking me up from the airport, and discovering that they drove a car with a sunroof because that was an extra bit of space for their head. Me, I am small, so I have to make sure seatbelts can be adjusted to the right height so they don’t decapitate me in an accident.

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  13. RIP Pillowfort*

    I really want to second that dealbreakers aren’t always going to be seen as demands. It’s better to bring them up early rather than wait until later when people are more invested.

    Where I work travel is part of the job. You have to be comfortable with that. So if someone doesn’t want to travel at all- this is not the job for them. And we have gotten candidates that were very against travel in their final interviews when it would have been good to know this was a dealbreaker prior to that. We could have realized it wasn’t going to work and not wasted anyone’s time.

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    2. Freya*

      Satisficing is getting stuff to good enough rather than trying to get it perfect. I first heard it in a uni subject relating to management, and in that context it was very much about deciding what’s the minimum acceptable standard given the time and budget constraints you have, leaving room for people to do better than that (and be rewarded for it), but also being realistic about what’s achievable in the long-term.

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  15. Kat*

    “Do you offer paychecks” made me laugh so hard no sound was coming out.

    Anyhoo, I had a situation recently where I was nervous to raise an issue, and my bf said the magic phrase, “the worst they can do is say no” and I feel like that totally applies here. If there’s a company that’s taken aback by asking to fly exclusively business class when you’re flying that many hours for their business needs, then maybe that’s not really a company you want to work for anyway. I flew economy back and forth from Chicago to Vietnam once. I will not do it again, because 13 hours in economy international was like 12 hours too long, so I FEEL YOU.

    The open office thing I feel like is definitely an ask you can make but be more prepared for the no there. Pre-COVID, my boss, a director, was two cubes away from me. I’m with you that I hate open offices, but I was like…if they’re not putting that dude in an office with a door, there’s no way I’m getting one.

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    1. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      my bf said the magic phrase, “the worst they can do is say no”

      That’s not the worst they can do. It’s always been important to me to get health insurance, and there was a time during an interview when I asked if the company provided health insurance. The interviewer snapped, “IF we decide to hire you, THEN we will discuss health insurance!” And he glared at me. I knew right away that I wasn’t going to get that job. It was much worse than if he had just said no.

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      1. amoeba*

        Eh, I mean, I’d say he did you a favor though – imagine you hadn’t asked, had gotten the job and ended up actually having to work for that dude! At least this way, you don’t need to feel any regret whatsoever about not getting that particular job…

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      2. RagingADHD*

        I think you may misconstrue the meaning of the phrase. It is intended to cut through catastrophizing and passive self-sabotage.

        In your case, they did say no, in a mean and unreasonable way. And revealed that they are a crappy company you’re better off not working for.

        They did not, however, throw you in a pot of boiling oil, or parade you through the streets with a dunce cap, or blacklist you from ever getting another job – the kind of hyperbolic fears that often hold us back from advocating for ourselves.

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  16. Catherine*

    Wow 100 hours a week sometimes!! I’m genuinely curious about what kind of work OP is doing. Sounds intense. I would definitely make business class a deal-breaker in that situation, as well as all the things someone mentioned above (choosing your departure times, good length of stopovers, etc).

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    1. handfulofbees*

      I’m curious too! I enjoy flying actually, and it’s a rare treat for me. Getting to do it regularly as part of work sounds cool.

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    2. Disappointed with the Staff*

      The shiny side is working in London and Sydney or equivalent. It’s “just” a day each way assuming all goes well. Worst case the government in Dubai or the USA provide accommodation until your government negotiates a deal to release you.

      The other side is regular visits to medical clinics or research stations (etc) in odd places. Visiting an eye clinic in Nepal for the Fred Hollows Foundation, for example, means flying to Kathmandu (at least 12 hours from the white world, possibly 24) then a flight in a tiny plane then a bus for many hours then possibly walking. Carrying a backpack full of second hand eyeglasses and whatever equipment you think might be useful. And ideally a change of underwear and a toothbrush. Nepal is nice. Much nicer than, say, Eritrea or the DRC. Working for MSF can lead to really awful commutes.

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  17. Antilles*

    As a hiring manager myself, I appreciate when people bring up their deal-breaker requirements early. I certainly wouldn’t hold it against someone. It’s possible that I regretfully tell you we can’t make your need for X viable and we end the process, but that would be the case no matter when you tell me. The earlier you tell me, the less time both of us waste on a process that’s doomed from the start.

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    2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Yes this! And sometimes if a candidate is really strong and has dealbreakers that we don’t offer out of the box, I can still get an exception for them – but I usually CAN’T do that on two hours notice when we’re all trying to get the offer signed. Give me time to figure out if it’s workable and the chances of it ending in a yes are much higher. (The LW’s specific dealbreakers seem black and white, but I’ve had candidates with very specific equipment-related dealbreakers, or who want remote work arrangements we aren’t structured for, or who have unusual scheduling needs, etc. We can often make stuff like that work with advance notice – and sometimes it even ends up with a policy improvement that benefits the whole office.)

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  18. Cube Farm for One*

    I think being straightforward with your needs is the way to go. I once interviewed a person who desperately wanted the job but needed a “no driving ever” guarantee. She lived next to the building. The job had minimal but necessary travel maybe once a month for the role in an area with zero public transit. A company car would be available. We weren’t going to be able to shove that need onto the other employees.

    It wasn’t a health issue but a desire to do no driving for work. We moved on to other candidates and she kept calling trying to get us to promise that she’d never have to drive. I think the thought this would be her perfect job except for THAT ONE THING.

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    1. allathian*

      It’s too bad. But if you’d really wanted to employ her, you would’ve probably found a way to do so regardless. What would you have done if your otherwise best candidate wasn’t allowed to drive for medical reasons?

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      1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        They’d say, “Gosh, it’s a shame that this Very Good Candidate can’t do 1 small but important part of this role; guess we’ll move on to Pretty Darned Good Candidate instead”.

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  19. Broccoli Soup*

    Timely question! I tried to compose an email about this recently and got stuck. I need WFH and a start time of 9 or later, so that I can sleep when my body needs it. Otherwise, I can fall asleep when I’m driving to work.

    The 9 am start sounds lazy to lots of people, but it’s been life changing for me! I like Alison’s suggested phrasing, and her reminder that weeding out companies is an acceptable thing to do.

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    1. allathian*

      Sounds like a remote job a couple timezones to the west of you might work, doesn’t help if you’re on Pacific time, though.

      Reply ↓
    2. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      Doesn’t anyone remember that excellent movie called “9 to 5”? That was a real thing!

      Reply ↓
  20. Hyaline*

    I think, while yes, airing most of the deal breakers early is probably important, if you’re hoping to not leave a bad taste in people’s mouths or lightly scorch bridges (I don’t think you can really BURN them over this, but you get the idea), you do have to be aware of asking in a way that doesn’t make you look out of touch. By out of touch I don’t mean “overshot a little” but expectations that are almost offensive–like “we take the bus to conferences, and you’re asking about flying first class like it’s normal” kind of out of touch. It sounds like you’ve got a pulse on the basic range in the field, which is good, and cuts down on that possibility! I think your best bet is often to first read the room and get a sense for norms, and to ask open-ended questions that will get you what you want to know or at least closer–“How does arranging travel typically work?” “What is the in-office setup like?” “Are most positions partially remote, or are you all in-office, and how does that work?” etc. You may have ended up turning down a job anyway, but depending on the size of your industry, I’d be aware how the impression I gave others could follow me.

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    1. Sloanicota*

      I agree this is the approach I would take. But then again, my role and skills are not super in-demand compared to some.

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    2. Anon OP*

      Love the username :D What would you like to know? (without being too identifying, I don’t want to say my exact job).

      Reply ↓
      1. JetPlaneandMudHuts*

        I double-checked the rules before saying this, but my email is a gmail the same as the username without the ‘and’ (jetplanesmudhuts). I might have created it specifically – ha.

        Everything about your job sounds like I designed it out of my brain, from the traveling to remote locations, even the work you’ve described doing in the office in your comments. I’d love to talk more about how you got into it, what it is, if you like your work, if you’re willing.

        Either way – thanks for writing in, and for being so open to talking to everyone in your comments! I’m mostly interested in how you got into the work you’re doing if you’d rather keep it here.

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  22. learnedthehardway*

    Speaking as a recruiter: Since your profession entails very high travel (it sounds like), I think this is a question that should be addressed early on. I WOULD bring it up with the recruiter / HR person – if they don’t know, they will be able to find out the answer for you, and that will save you and the company a lot of wasted time and effort, if the answer is No.

    I don’t think anyone would see the question as naive – you obviously are an experienced person in your field and know what works and what doesn’t re the high travel. They MIGHT see you as entitled to expect business class, but if they do, then they aren’t the company you want to work for, anyway.

    I would phrase it as Allison suggests – giving reasons makes it clear that you a) know the demands of the job, and b) are providing a good business reason for the expectation of business class travel (which should negate any sense that you’re being entitled, for companies that perhaps haven’t considered that road (air) warriors need to be able to work in flight).

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  23. Antigone*

    Although my specific dealbreaker were different, in a recent job search I went so far as to highlight one of my dealbreakers (remote work and I am NOT going to move for a job) in my *cover letter*. I have zero regrets about it; I probably missed out on a couple of potential interviews, but got more, and it was great to have that be something we addressed clearly at time of initial HR screen because it was already “out there.”

    I ended up somewhere very supportive of remote work, both within the team and for the organization as a whole, and I’m glad I did it the way I did. If I had it to do again I’d do the same; I saw it as me screening companies out, as much as them screening me out.

    That said, I was searching from the relatively privileged place of being unhappy at my job but in no danger of losing it before I was ready to go, and also having a somewhat specialized skillset, so I could afford to be choosy. That approach won’t work for everyone.

    (But Alison did read my cover letter including that bit and said it was great, so it’s Alison-approved if done the right way!)

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  24. Meaningful hats*

    I don’t understand why employers will sometimes act like making deal-brakers clear is “high maintenance”. Would you rather hire an employee who isn’t able to function productively in the job, be frustrated about the situation for months, and then ultimately have them leave or have to let them go? It seems better to get that out of the way from the beginning.

    One of my kids has medical issues. We need to travel 8 hours each way out-of-state in order to see a certain specialist every quarter. There will always be constant doctor appointments, and not all of them can be before or after work. A handful of times each year, I’m going to get a call that she had a “medical event” at school, and I need to pick her up ASAP. My workplace has to give me the flexibility to deal with this or else I can’t work, period. I had to filter out a lot of places that were not ok with that level of flexibility during my last job search. Some of them definitely judged me for bringing up the schedule “too early” in the process, but it’s information I need to proceed.

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  25. CubeFarmer*

    I recently was on the hiring side of a role, and I appreciated getting to deal breakers in the first interview. For a few people it was the salary, and since my state requires a salary range in the job description, I think it kept a lot of people from applying if they didn’t like what we were offering. Still, we had a couple of people who tried to negotiate a higher salary.

    Also, I totally missed the 2020 post about Lord Dr whoever. I assume this guy purchased his title, and his co-workers know it, which is why they’re not calling him by the title. We have a family friend who received an honorary doctorate and professorship from a university, and then immediately changed his contact information to reflect that he was Professor Doctor (he’s not American.) So obnoxious.

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  26. Who me?*

    Once I went through a phone screen and 90 minute interview for a job that would gave been a $15-20k pay upgrade. At the end of the interview I asked to see where I’d be working. It was a large-ish cubicle in the dark back corner of a room with 3 other employees and a teeny “window” near the ceiling that they kept screened to “prevent glare.” My job the time had a private office with a door and large window to the outside. I do not work without a window. Period. I knew instantly it was a no-go. I may have been desperate to get out of my current job, but not THAT desperate.

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  27. Mad Scientist*

    Not necessarily for OP, but for anyone else asking about office layouts during the interview process, especially if you’re likely to work in a cubicle environment:

    You may get a response that the office was “recently renovated”. In my experience, they almost always try to spin this as a positive, but it almost always means that they made the cubicle spaces worse (and sometimes the shared spaces too). Office renovations usually prioritize saving money, not employee comfort or productivity, so they make the desks smaller, the walls shorter, etc. I once went through an office renovation that made our cubes so small that they couldn’t fit full-sized construction drawings on our desks, and reviewing construction drawings was part of the job. It was clear that they didn’t think through what our job duties actually entailed when they made the renovations. And unfortunately, when I helped with interviews at that company, we were instructed to tell candidates how nice the new office space was after the renovations, regardless of whether or not we actually agreed with that…

    Of course, this isn’t always the case! My current job has new-ish cubicles that are nicer than I’m used to (but still probably smaller than they were before the renovations). And they did mention that it was “recently renovated” during the interview process, which set off red flags for me at the time, so I asked for more info and ultimately decided I could live with the setup.

    But, just be wary of interviewers dodging the question by talking about renovations as a great thing, when the truth is they probably made the space less comfortable for employees.

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    1. Disappointed with the Staff*

      I used to insist on seeing the actual office space during the onsite interview. Companies that don’t allow that often also don’t want potential staff talking to current ones and at that point I know enough to refuse to go further with the process.

      That site visit tells you a whole lot of stuff you can’t find out by asking questions, from what the office smells like (is it non-smoking but so many staff smoke that it might as well allow it?) to whether the office is full of miserable victims trying to hide from their management? Or just whether the desks/screens etc were made this century and are bigger than a postage stamp.

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      1. Nightengale*

        I was looking for a job at the end of my medical training where one of my priorities was to move to a real city so I could stop driving. I had several phone interviews and then was brought on site to interview at a hospital in a nice big city. I asked to see the clinic space and they were kind of cagy. Finally (I had had probably 8 hours conversation with various people by this point) they said they were going to put the new person at one of two undecided sites around an hours drive from the real city. I wonder if they had ever been planning to mention that point if I hadn’t pushed. . .

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  28. Dr. Prepper*

    The problem is that with ALL the large corporations in the US I worked for, they always have a travel POLICY that you sign off on, sometimes in mandatory training modules with a test. In almost all the companies, an overseas flight got you business class, with hopefully a laydown seat but that was dependent on the airline and aircraft. You also got to/from car service, as somebody got sued for a wreck caused by a jet-lagged employee, so that was a liability issue.

    But for DOMESTIC US travel, the standard marketing for those seats up front is no longer business but FIRST class or even Business-First, and the company flacks are eager to tell you “Sorry, only the C Suite rates FIRST class, so you have to fly economy” even though a few years ago those same seats were called Business.

    So if OP has Business travel as a non-negotiable item, I’d demand a Business seat for all travel, including domestic, and I’d demand an iron-clad contract reviewed by my own lawyer, which contains language that I get Business seats no matter what, and they can’t rescind it by a Travel policy revision.

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  29. NSJH*

    I guess I’m not sure how early you’re thinking about, but if you’re at any sort of interview stage, (in my experience), the interviewer (be it HR, the hiring manager, or future supervisor) will almost always end with “Do you have any questions for me?” which is pretty much the easiest way to bring these types of questions up!

    Like Alison says, if whoever you’re talking to is taken aback by the questions, well, then it’s likely that company isn’t going to fit with that you want anyways.

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  30. Always Tired*

    Last time I was job hunting I said it in phone screens with recruiters, but for me that was because my deal breaker after working at a tech company with that dreaded “start up mentality” and an insane boss with no boundaries was that I was not going to work regular 50+ hour weeks. It isn’t sustainable for me. I cannot be on call 24/7. I won’t take 6am calls, I won’t check my email before 8:30, and I turn off email/chat notifications between 6pm and 7am. don’t call me at 7:30pm on a Friday with an urgent task due Monday morning. There are special cases where I will work late/over the weekend, but it’s not a regular thing to expect. Very little in HR is that kind of emergency.

    I got passed over quite a bit, never got an interview invite for a single tech company or law firm. But I did get quite a few invites from other industries that understand work life balance, and ended up at a construction firm. I sometimes get calls early because jobsites open up at 7 or 7:30am, but no one expects me to pop out my computer and immediately work at that moment, it’s “hey, when you get to the office…” or “where do I find those forms again?” And it’s now after 3pm so it’s dead quiet for the rest of the day.

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  31. Carl*

    I am confused about the role that would involve 100 hours of air travel per week business class – and might involve an open cube.

    You learn something every day.

    Reply ↓

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