open thread – April 11, 2025

by Alison Green on April 11, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. petty confessions*

    Does anyone else have a small work thing that they’re a bit immature/petty about? For me it’s email encryption wars. My org uses Outlook encryption, but I frequently communicate with other orgs that use Zix, Proofpoint, and various others. It’s a pain in the butt when I get an email from another org’s encryption service, because the message disappears after a while unless I save it and it’s just a hassle to log in every time I want to see it. I use my inbox as an archive and rely on the search function to quickly retrieve things – if the actual text of their message isn’t searchable within my inbox, it might as well not exist after a certain point. So if there’s ever something sensitive that I know I’ll need to collaborate on with these orgs, I RUSH to be the first to email them so I can “claim” the thread with our own encryption service.

    However much it annoys me when one of them gets to their email first, I suck it up and reply within the same thread so my inbox can at least stay organized. But they’re not always as considerate. Sometimes they’ll just start another email thread with their own encryption instead of replying to my message, which gets them added to the list I will reference if I’m ever offered 3 wishes by a genie and get to use one of them to permanently insert popcorn between my enemies’ teeth (it’ll be different teeth every day, and if they’ve lost all their teeth, they get them back just for this). If I’m particularly annoyed, I’ll copy/paste their reply into my original Outlook thread and “reply” that way. Is it professional? Definitely not. But the sensitive information is still communicated to everyone who needs it while staying encrypted, so I don’t feel too bad about it.

    To be clear, I spend a very minimal amount of time/energy caring about this (before the inevitable “I wish I had the time and energy to care so much about something so little”), but it just happened to me this morning and thought it would be a good starting point for a “petty confessions” thread.

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    1. angry birdcage*

      My petty annoyance right now is that my boss has poor calendar etiquette!
      My calendar is always up to date and while I have a few hours of meetings every day, I still have plenty of open space so it shouldn’t be too difficult to find times to meet.

      My boss however tried to schedule a (very non-urgent) meeting with me recently where I had a block for lunch (I had plans with a friend) and when I suggested an alternate time where she was free, she said “I might have a meeting then”. I suggested another time and she said “why cant you do 12:30pm this day” and I was like because I have lunch plans??? (Also at my company culture it’s very unusual to need to schedule regular meetings over lunch).

      Then when a stakeholder meeting we’re both in got scheduled over our normal 1:1 time, I proposed a new time for our 1:1 and she said “oh I’m not available that day, I need to finish a project that’s due and I haven’t started it yet”. I wanted to respond: Ok well you have nothing blocked on your calendar so how am I supposed to know that? My boss then suggested a time where I have MY calendar blocked for an appointment, so I’m not sure she even looked at my availability to find a time?

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      1. PokemonGoToThePolls*

        Somebody I work with seems to think they have to @ me in Teams DMs – not group messages, but a DM TO ME.

        It doesn’t really matter but something about opening up a DM with my name in bold red is just so, so annoying.

        I don’t do anything about it, it’s just a petty complaint of mine.

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        1. petty confessions*

          1. I (and probably most tech-literate people?) would also find that really annoying!

          2. Your username gave me war flashbacks. What a time.

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          1. Elansha*

            I wonder if they are accustomed to Slack, where if you don’t “@” someone, they might not get a notification? (For me at least, even if it is a DM, I only get a visual that I have a new DM; I only get an active notification if I’ve been “@” so I always want people to “@” me.) So I would certainly be guilty of this, since I didn’t realize Teams was different in that.

            Reply ↓
            1. PokemonGoToThePolls*

              We did use Slack prior to switching to Teams, so that might be it! I never had that problem, but I was only a Slack user for a few months and nobody needed me much then anyway

              Reply ↓
            2. David*

              Huh interesting, I could swear I get notified of Slack DMs the same way whether I get @-mentioned or not. I guess I haven’t really paid attention to it so I could be wrong, but I’m wondering if there’s a setting that affects this.

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          2. PokemonGoToThePolls*

            During certain events in the game, it still feels like 2016 and it’s so fun. Last month there was an event and we had almost 40 people walking all over the city hunting down monsters, it was incredible.

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      2. Momma Bear*

        Our rule is if you *have to* schedule something over lunch (other than brown bag meetings), you need to budget for food. I think this started b/c the CEO was hungry, but it’s one rule I can get behind. 12:30 is a very normal lunch time and I’d just assume someone was running an errand or eating.

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      3. I Edit and I Know Things*

        For what it’s worth, I’m in my early 30s and have always worked with computers, but didn’t know about the “schedule assistant” tool in outlook until my previous job. My first job, before the pandemic, we were in office and would just yell at each other. My next job, things were standing when I got there, so I scheduled around them. Or slacked the person to ask for a quick call. It never once occurred to me to block off my lunch or medical appointments, because I never needed to. Is it possible your boss doesn’t know about the tool and how to use it? Would she be open to learning about it? (It totally changed my world!)

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        1. angry birdcage*

          OP of this comment — we use gmail where it’s fairly simply to look at other people’s calendars.
          I am 100% certain she knows how to look but for whatever reason is choosing not to… or is choosing to ignore / not acknowledge that my cal is blocked. Sometimes she does ask (“it looks like you have something at 1pm, can you move it?” “oh I see your schedule is blocked, is that flexible?”) so that makes it more annoying when she doesn’t even bother to ask, just assumes.

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          1. Ellis Bell*

            In that case I would feel out how she responds if you act all surprised and annoyed with yourself for not blocking off the calendar “Oh that’s so weird, I was sure I blocked off my calendar for Urgent Thing; is the schedule assistant not working?”. But, yeah I bet this is probably squarely in the realm of petty annoyance because she doesn’t keep her calendar updated and wants to assume you’ve over calendered by putting in non essential stuff that totally can be moved.

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      4. Rage*

        Oooooof I felt this in my colon of colons.

        It doesn’t bother me as much now, because calendaring is now a very minor part of my role. But in my previous role (same company), I was having to schedule meetings with around 12 individual people from various teams. Some teams had awesome calendar etiquette and it was very easy to see when they were available and when they were not. But others (one team in particular) – I would schedule a meeting (it was usually about 2 months in advance, but occasionally we had less than 1 week lead time) because their calendar indicated they were available. Then they would come back with, “I’m going to be on vacation that day.”

        If you know you’re going to be on vacation, why for the love of Pete isn’t it on your calendar?

        Oh, they would say, director hasn’t approved it yet.

        Yes, but since you know that I schedule these meetings, and that you are likely to have at least one of them each month, then why not put a HOLD on your vacation days so I can at least see that you are wanting to be out? And then I will avoid that day!

        So glad I’m not having to deal with that anymore.

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      5. Bitte Meddler*

        Ugh. Mine is that the people in Payroll literally never put anything on their calendars, even PTO. So I send a meeting invite at an open time [remember, their entire calendars are wide open, nothing scheduled other than company-wide events] and get emails from all three of them telling me they’re out that week on PTO, or in a meeting with HR, or it’s payroll run day and they won’t have time for anything else that day.

        OK? Maybe you could put that on your calendar so I don’t have to have a four-way email conversation trying to find a time that works for all of us???

        Also, my technically-solid-line manager (even though he isn’t the person who actually manages and oversees my work) always schedules meetings with me without checking my calendar. It’s one click away in the Outlook meeting invite but, nope, he can’t be bothered to move his mouse cursor a few millimeters.

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        1. Frieda*

          I have a co-worker higher on the org chart than me but not in my reporting chain who cannot, canNOT get over the idea that if she emails you, you should email right! back! and who also sends calendar invites for things that do not need calendar invites. And she can’t be arsed to look at your schedule when she schedules things, invites you to things, or emails you.

          So: if I’m teaching class at the time that you email me or at a time when you add me to a meeting without my consent, I will not be available. If you send me a g.d. calendar invite for a deadline on a project that then shows up as a meeting, I will be confused if I have set aside time for what is not in fact a meeting. Do not send me Schrodinger’s calendar invite!

          My schedule is public! You could look and see I’m not getting back to you because I’m in a three hour block of teaching! You should not use this “delay” on my part as an excuse to forge ahead with some nonsense bullshit idea you’ve gotten in your empty head!

          Thank goodness, we are no longer working on a small project that took up a disproportionate amount of my time because she cannot figure out basic workplace norms. Of course I am also now beneath her notice, which I find grimly amusing – if you need my time, you’re all OVER me but now that you don’t, it’s hard to say hello? Thanks for being your truest self, I guess.

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          1. timed events*

            How would you handle an annual to-do item? There’s a software package with annual updates, but to get the update I first need approval from IT. I made a recurring appointment and, as a courtesy, invited colleagues, who found it confusing. My theory is they can Just Not Accept the Appointment, but one wanted me to change what I put in it.

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            1. te*

              To clarify, *one* colleague, out of a small group, told me h found it confusing and wanted me to change the content.

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      6. Fly on The Wall*

        Calendar management where I am at is AWFUL! No matter how many times and ways we’ve trained some people they just do not get it. The latest was thinking that the system double booked a room when in reality they got a message back declining the room ’cause they failed to see if it was available.

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    2. Clementine*

      If it helps, people at the other orgs probably feel just as annoyed and inconvenienced by having to adapt to using your organization’s encryption.

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      1. petty confessions*

        For sure, which is another reason why I defer to their encryption and reply within their thread when they email me first. It’s one of those annoyances that we all have to deal with at some point, but most of us (at my org and the others) just accept that the first person to reach out gets to use their encryption for the duration of the thread. It’s the ones who start a completely new thread instead of replying so they can shift the burden onto others 100% of the time that get the popcorn teeth.

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    3. De Minimis*

      Email seems to bring out the worst in people. I’m on at least one distribution list where we receive invoices, other mail, etc. We get a couple of tax filing reminders every quarter that end up being sent to the list [filing the tax stuff is my responsibility], and every time, other list members forward the notices to me. I’ve told them repeatedly that I am on the same distribution list [and have sent items to it] and so there’s no need to re-send the notices since I saw them the same time they did, but to no avail…I’ve given up.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ama*

        There are a surprising number of people who don’t know how distribution lists or bcc work and think that because they can’t see someone else’s email listed as a recipient that must mean they didn’t receive it.

        I used to send emails regularly to a list of VIPs and their admins. EVERY time I sent an email at least one person of the VIPs would email me “please also include my admin on these emails.” They had never actually asked the admin if they’d received them, they just assumed they didn’t based on the fact that from their side only their name was listed as a recipient.

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        1. Hello, Nurse*

          Annoying as it is when they don’t know how mailing lists or BCC work, the alternative is to put all the addresses into the To field. This is the reason mailing lists and BCC exist.

          (Back in the early days, the national office of the chain we’re part of had some IT people who were, shall we say, a little slow on the uptake for such technology, and they would regularly send out notices to all dealers, with 2,000 addresses in the To field. This was also in the days of email viruses that would scan your Inbox for more addresses to send themselves to. I had to write a special filter to stop the 300-400 copies of the virus *per hour* that were coming in. Corporate learned how to use mailing lists after that. Pain is a very effective teaching tool.)

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        2. Lenora Rose*

          With our distribution lists, you see the name of the distribution list, not of the individuals, so they have no reason to think people in the same obvious large group batch are not included… but we DO have separate lists for the people in charge and for the clerks/admin. They should then be able to tell when we do cc their clerks. (Sadly, when we don’t, I sometimes get clerks reaching out to me about things their superiors received and just didn’t tell them about… but I’ve never had a superior ask me to add their admins to a list they belong to.)

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      2. Mid*

        Oh god, my company has SO MANY HORRIBLY ABUSED DISTRIBUTION LISTS. I get a minimum of 300 emails a day, every day. Sometimes it’s over 600, because people will have a whole conversation while continuously CCing the entire distribution list. Sometimes I’ll get duplicate and triplicate emails because emails are sent to multiple lists and I’m on all of them and our system doesn’t skip duplicate email addresses. And, on top of that, I’m still not on at least one list I actually need to be on, and keep missing really important information because of that. But I do get 100+ auto-replies that are sent to our distribution list everyday.

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    4. 653-CXK*

      I’m non-exempt and I work from 8:00-4:30pm Monday through Friday. As such, I punch in in the mornings and out when the day ends.

      We have flex time per se, but it is only available after the start time. That is, I can log in any time after 8:00, but we cannot log in ten minutes before then (i.e. I cannot log in before 7:50am). The reason for that is some people abused the punch privilege and it got taken away.

      If there are issues I want to take care of and I want to start early, I have to begin at 7:50am or get permission to work earlier, or change my start time. It’s not petty, but it would be nice to get things cleared off the books before 8am.

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    5. BellStell*

      Zoom login b.s. with a newer PM who is crappy and will not do admin stuff for others but sets up her own zooms. I used to have access to the one time login codes and this PM’s boss closed my account when I was moved to a new team and took away access to the team zoom BUT I still work on this project that is their team’s. So there have been a lot of emails trying to set up zooms this week this crappiness of her not being a bit flexible or being ok to do zoom work has wasted four people’s time of two hours so super crap and not efficient. I am so annoyed at this lady and her crappy bossy attitude and I just cannot. Her boss is also crap. The whole mess is crap. Am so over this level of crap.

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    6. Strive to Excel*

      My workplace will not use teams messaging.

      All the managers, with whom I need to communicate, have teams-capable smartphones. We use teams when we need to make video calls (not super common). But no one uses any sort of instant messaging. Instead, if I need to get a quick piece of info out of someone, I need to either call them or email them. It works, I’ve definitely got over some phone shyness here, but I wish I could have the inbetween function of being able to text/IM someone a quick question instead of waiting for them to sit down with their email. And half the quick questions I send by email get missed, because the managers are very busy, and half the phone calls I make I end up with no info, because the manager isn’t in front of their computer and so doesn’t have the info on hand that I need.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ginger Cat Lady*

        I have a phone that could do work IMs but….no freaking way! I don’t want to be interrupted that much and definitely not after hours. My phone, my rules.

        Reply ↓
        1. ConlanMetalRose*

          This exactly! I took my work email off my smartphone intentionally because I can’t help but look, and find the OP’s comment to be really intrusive unless it is a work phone and not a personal phone, in which case, during work hours, sure, that could be reasonable. After, I’m going to be the “in the drawer” person until the next work day, so don’t expect an after-hours response.

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        2. Inkognyto*

          If you want me to have email/IM on a device.
          IE, Laptop/Desktop/Phone, then provide the device.

          If it’s my device it’s not going on there.

          It was my insistence when I was required to be on-call. You give me a phone as I’m not my personal phone number given for support in IT.

          Because once someone got that number they often would call it when I wasn’t on-call. The weeks I wasn’t on-call.
          I’d put that phone on silent.

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    7. Birdy*

      People messing up how I’ve organized agents (chemicals). Two people from a different department have to use our lab equipment, and almost always mess up my organization system when they use “my” chemicals. Like, everything is lined up, just put it back where you found it!
      Now they’ve started leaving the empty bottles in a prep hood for me to take out of inventory instead of just, y’know, telling someone they finished off a bottle.

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      4. Another Kristin*

        OMG my kids work in your lab!

        (Not really, but no matter how many times I explain that I don’t have Xray vision and if they put an empty box of cereal back in the cupboard, I will not know it’s empty and will not buy more, it doesn’t seem to stick.)

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        1. Norm Peterson*

          My husband also will leave a tiny tiny quantity of chip fragments because he didn’t want to finish them. Ack.

          Reply ↓
          1. Opaline*

            My husband is the same, but with everything! Jars put back in the fridge with a tiny bit left. Boxes of crackers with one lonely cracker in them. Even closing the curtains, he won’t close them the whole way.

            He grew up with an anxious as hell mother and learned young to leave a little wiggle room in case she didn’t want him finishing food or closing the curtains, so I do sympathise. He is getting better at it, but it drove me up the wall when we first moved in together!

            Reply ↓
    8. Percy Weasley*

      Mine is receiving business email that starts with some version of “my name is …”. Business email is set up so that I saw your name in my inbox before I opened the message, and it’s also in your signature block (because this is professional email), so just don’t. (Introducing your ROLE is great! “I’m the new rep who will be handling your account …” is very useful information.)

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      1. a good mouse*

        I have to remind myself not to do that in emails sometimes – same reasoning you said. I think it’s because in my head I’m thinking through what to say as though I was talking on the phone or in person to someone (since the only time I would want to use that line is to use it when talking to someone I don’t know).

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    9. Yes And*

      I had a situation a couple of weeks ago where a contact was trying to email me something time-sensitive over an encrypted server, but the login for the encrypted server was down. I couldn’t read the email. So I kept emailing them directly to say, “Hey, the encrypted server is down, can you send this over regular email?” And they kept replying over the encrypted server. Which I could not log into. Rinse and repeat.

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      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I have more than once been completely blocked from downloading documents by the outside security system. My response is to email the person, compliment them on how secure their system is, and ask them to send me the docs in some less secure manner so I can actually get them. This often results in their printing them out and FedExing them.

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      2. Rage*

        One time, I had sent a Release of Information to a hospital, requesting records for a mutual patient. I called to follow up on it, since we had not heard back from them.

        The woman I spoke to IN THE RECORDS DEPARTMENT said she had not received it. I explained that I had emailed it, encrypted, to [records dept email address].

        “Oh,” she said. “I really hate email encryption. It takes forever to get in to those. Can you just send it over without the encryption?”

        And violate HIPAA? Sure, sure, just give me a moment to compose my resignation letter and I’ll get right on that. (Sheesh. Note that I did not do as she requested, and in the end faxed the dumb thing to her.)

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        1. Yes And*

          In my case, there was nothing actually sensitive in the email. It could absolutely have been sent unencrypted with no risk.

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          1. Mad Harry Crewe*

            Some encryption systems are really aggressive and the user doesn’t have a choice/doesn’t even know if it’s sending encrypted. I had a thread with a customer where it kept going encrypted on their side and I kept asking them to cut it out because it made my job harder (and truly wasn’t necessary for the messages) and finally I think they had to wipe the entire thread history out of the reply so it would stop. And then it started up again a few rounds later. At that point I just sucked it up, they clearly weren’t doing it to annoy me.

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    10. Mid*

      We recently switched our Zoom chats so they only stick for 24 hours instead of staying for 3 months. At the same time, we merged and the new company has horrendous email practices and nightmarish email distribution lists. I’m absolutely drowning in emails (went from ~100 a day to 300-600 emails a day) and can’t get any good inbox rules to help (no one uses consistent language for referring to things so I can’t really use keywords, emails aren’t consistently sent to the same lists/inboxes so I can’t filter that way, etc. I’ve done what I can to at least get things to go to broad folders, but I still have to sift through all 300+ emails every single day) and on top of that, I can’t use chats for quicker/easier things because it disappears in 24 hours, even if someone hasn’t read the message. There have been so many other issues with the merger, but the Zoom chat thing is truly the straw that’s about to break me.

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    11. Tammy 2*

      I have a 5-10 minute walk from the parking garage to my building and have started wearing airpods (with nothing playing) so that I don’t have to have conversations with coworkers before I get to the building.

      My husband joked that I should get some big over-ear headphones to make it crystal clear, which led to a whole bit about just wearing earmuffs and telling people I’m “listening to my podcast.”

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      1. Greta*

        For some unknown reason, people drop by my cube and start talking. Or stare and wait for me to take off my headphones. When I am obviously talking in a meeting. I only wear headphones when in a meeting or listening to a recording. I get no one should know my patterns, but it’s really obvious I’m talking to someone else! I think people just want to be entertained or taken care of in the moment that they don’t notice the headphones. Or don’t care.

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      2. CeeDoo*

        I get to work about 6:30 in the morning. My personality gets up around 8. So between 6:30 and 8, I want to be left alone. I keep my nose buried in my phone, even if it’s just on the home screen. I’d rather get teased about that than actually interact.

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    12. WeirdChemist*

      I go out to lunch with a group of coworkers every now and then. One of them is *so* wasteful with food! She’ll frequently order the larger portion options of things, or get extra sides, and then barely pick at her food. If she bothers taking leftovers back, they exist purely to rot in the communal fridge. We all pay for our own portions, so obviously if she wants to waste her own money she’s welcome to, but it makes my eye twitch at how much food she wastes!

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    13. ursula*

      I have a coworker who will email me and then chat me on Teams with the exact same info. “I just sent you an email with XYZ.” For non-time-sensitive content. It drives me up the wall. I have ADHD and it increases the number of distraction points in my day, causes me to misremember whether I have responded to them or not, and stops me from being able to plan my time and block tasks. I cannot get them to stop, even after explaining the problem and ensuring that they are not waiting on me for vital information. Hisssssssssssssssss

      Reply ↓
    14. TinkerTailorSolderDye*

      My data management.

      Dearest gods, the previous people in this position never cleaned up the four massive data conversions that wound up being leveraged into this system (Blackbaud CRM, in case anyone’s wondering), so I’ve been slowly, agonizingly sorting and merging records since I started…

      And yet, people keep going in and dinkering with them! I had to get “SONS OF THE PHAROAHS, LOOK AT THIS MESS” on them a few times. To be clear, I don’t mind when I get help with things; our accountant is lovely and I never mind when she has to go in to do edits, because it’s always clean, concise, and usually helps me out. But otherwise, unless it’s new entries/new records altogether, it’s a No Touch zone.

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    15. MiloSpiral*

      I feel you on the encryption wars! I have a peeve about encryption, too, but it’s not the peeve I’ll share today:
      One of my peeves is when email clients put “external” in the subject line, and then that “external” is preserved on reply. Whenever I send one of my vendors an email (e.g. “llama data question”), their reply comes in a whole new thread with the subject line “external: re: llama data question.” And then it becomes recursive: I reply to that email, my subject line is now “re: external: re: llama data question”, and when they reply to that reply–oops, now it’s yet another whole new thread, this time called “external: re external: re: llama data question”

      I have so many threads in my email inbox that are actually just duplicates of the same thread, with one reply added each time. I can’t tell which ones are which because after a while their subject lines just become an endless line of “external: re: external: re: external.” And if there’s ever more than one person on the email chain? ForGET it.

      I should probably just delete the external piece every time I reply, to at least keep the subject lines clear if I ever need to reference the email again (which I do need to do sometimes). But who has the time??

      This is a very small tip of the iceberg in which I would like to freeze my email inbox and set it sailing off gently out to sea

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      1. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

        This is my new favourite poem:

        This is a very small tip of the iceberg
        in which I would like
        to freeze my email inbox and
        set it sailing off
        gently
        out to sea

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    16. Emails, always emails*

      My thing is also email, in particular how my coworkers use reply for scheduling, and one coworker insists on including “time sensitive” in the subject line for every other email. Yes, most of what we do has deadlines, which you’ve included in your message. Need to schedule a meeting? Please “reply all” with your availability. (The idea that we would use our available suite of calendar tools is apparently unfathomable.) As much as possible, I opt out of reply-all threads, emailing the person scheduling the meeting directly. But I stil l receive the replies. (I don’t care when Joan is available, as I’m not scheduling the meeting!)

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    17. Educator*

      My petty complaint is team meetings in inconvenient places. We are a fully remote team, so it is nice to get together sometimes. But it seems totally obvious to me that we should do it by one of our nation’s many, many big hub airports, not somewhere that requires everyone to take a connecting flight or two. Have your pick of New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, Houston, Boston, Las Vegas, Atlanta, or Minneapolis. But for the love of goodness, don’t make me figure out how to get to Albany, Tucson, or Madison.

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    18. bay scamp*

      Maybe this isn’t “work-y” enough, but I have a little pet peeve about lunch at work… I’m officed with a team that has some overlap with my job duties, but not much, so we’re not directly involved in tasks together unless it’s something the whole building is doing. I used to never get included in lunch orders and the like, until speaking up to someone last year and asking if I could be included. Since then, I get nominally included like 1/4 of the time, but it’s like, someone showing up in my doorway when I’m busy and saying “We’re getting Chik-Fil-A” or “We’re getting Jimmy Johns.” I never want the former and would rarely want the latter. I’ve agreed to get something from a different fast casual place once or twice this year. Last Friday, I had brought a lunch that I wasn’t enthused about, so I was hoping to be included… nope, I got back from a 10-11:30 meeting to find out they’d all ordered from a local Indian/Mediterranean place (no, it’s not that I think those are the same thing, I know the Indian family that owns the place and they decided to serve Mediterranean food too since we had neither of those types of restaurants in our town) for someone’s birthday. I wish I was included in the fun stuff and not just the generic fast food. Oh well.

      Reply ↓
  2. Always the Bridesmaid*

    My job is a dumpster fire for many reasons, not least of all no one has had a pay raise in two years and I’m being underpaid by $15 – 20k less than the market average for a similar role.

    My goal is to find a new job this year, and I’m actively applying. However, there has been a mass exodus in a department I work closely with, and it would probably be in the company’s best interest to retain experienced employees. Is it worth pushing for a significant raise (like 30% to be on par with positions I’m applying for) or just get off this sinking ship as fast as I can?

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Depends how likely you think they are to just let you go or otherwise make you miserable for even asking, and how prepared you are to deal with that possibility. Also how willing you are to burn bridges if you do get the raise and then still decide to leave (which you should, because dumpster fire). If you truly feel like you’ve got nothing to lose, then sure.

      Reply ↓
    2. Pam Adams*

      My recommendation- follow all the avenues. If they do give you a raise, and something better comes along, take it!

      Reply ↓
      1. londonedit*

        Yes. I’d put your case forward for more money, but keep looking for a new job, and don’t have any qualms about taking something better when it comes along!

        Reply ↓
    3. Miette*

      Well first off: no reason not to do both. But since you asked, I’d consider the following:

      -Is the company’s performance such that it’d be classified as a sinking ship, or is it just that management/your dept. generally sucks? If the former, I would definitely keep looking.

      -Are you a fit for that other department? Maybe you can at least get out of your current situation and negotiate a raise at the same time?

      -Is your company the kind of place where you’ve heard of employees negotiating such significant raises? Because I hear so often that companies don’t give that kind of raise to existing employees, both on this site and in the real world, so you may be seen as being out of touch. If your salary is so far outside the market rate, I wouldn’t put much stock in them negotiating that high a raise.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
      1. Always the Bridesmaid*

        Definitely company-wide dysfunction and not a large enough org for internal transfers. To your point, I don’t think this is the kind of company that would give that large a raise to existing employees. However, part of my job is event management and I know that $15-20k over the course of a year is peanuts compared to what’s being spent on a single event. But it seems like corporations don’t really think that way, idk.

        Reply ↓
        1. Richard Hershberger*

          Corporate budgets are often very siloed. The pool of money for events and entirely separate from the pool of money for salaries, with different people in charge of them. The results can be wacky. We see stories of crackdowns on the cost of air travel, requiring the cheapest fare even if it results in expensive overnight stays, because different departments pay those.

          Reply ↓
    4. Sloanicota*

      Yeah definitely push for the raise, you’ve got basically nothing to lose as long as you’re reasonable in your approach, and it always takes me longer to find a new job than I think (I don’t think the current economy is going to help either).

      Reply ↓
    5. Hyaline*

      How likely are they to be in a position to give said raise? That kind of answers the “abandon ship” question in a different way, because if they can’t even afford to incentivize good employee retention…ooof, they’re probably not a stable place to be anyway.

      And then–well, if you’re more than willing to leave anyway, I’d say go for it via whatever routes are normal and expected in your company–annual review, pursuing a promotion, etc. And don’t give up the search elsewhere–even if you get an offer you’re only iffy on, you could use it to negotiate a raise to keep you.

      Reply ↓
    6. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’d take into account what MsM says, but if you feel like asking wouldn’t make things worse, ASK. And still keep looking.

      Reply ↓
    7. Parenthesis Guy*

      I’d be concerned to ask for a 30% increase if nobody has gotten pay raises in two years. I’d be worried about the companies’ health and would want to understand more about why that’s the case. But I wouldn’t just presume that the company wants to retain experienced employees if they don’t give pay raises.

      I’d just try to get out.

      Reply ↓
    8. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Would you still consider your job a dumpster fire if they raised your pay to market rates? If so, just hunt while you still have a job and then leave.
      Anyway, if you request over about 10% they may decide to get rid of you, or make your life much worse, so this is an example of where it can hurt to ask.
      Also, why the mass exodus in the other dept? Sounds worrying.

      Reply ↓
      1. Always the Bridesmaid*

        I’m guessing mostly internal restructuring, incompetent leadership, and coming off a bad year for commission-based positions.

        Also, a leader who left in a spectacularly dramatic way before I was hired (blowing up bridges, salting the earth behind them, and leaving many hurt feelings) is working with the company again. I wish I could give more detail, but it is such a uniquely screwy situation that it would be immediately recognizable to anyone I work with. lol.

        Reply ↓
    10. burnie*

      One risk of a major raise after a mass exodus that I’ve seen is that comes tied with a lot of additional responsibility. Dangerously, that expectation is sometimes not spelled out when you take the raise, but becomes apparent once you’re working. It may turn out the additional work is not worth the additional pay.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Well, I agree with you, but in my experience that same work will likely get dumped on you whether you take the raise or not, so you might as well try to push for a raise. Plus, OP’s plan here is to get a raise now but be gone within a year, so even if they do try to push all the work on them, it’s not going to be for that long.

        Reply ↓
    11. Stuart Foote*

      Just get out. In my experience companies would rather pay a new worker +50% than give an existing employee a 20% raise.

      Reply ↓
      1. College Career Counselor.*

        This right here. You never get the same pay rate for an internal promotion than if they’d hired someone from the outside.

        Reply ↓
    12. PokemonGoToThePolls*

      Yes you should try!

      My old job had a similar situation in the past few years when 90% of the department that handled all onboardings and other customer projects left within 6 months and they offered one of the last people a 50% raise to not quit (they did not take it because there was a reason so many other people left already and they had another job offer)

      Reply ↓
    13. Lurker*

      I would push for the raise and if they decline double down on job searching. You can’t care more about their company than they do.

      Reply ↓
    14. Rex Libris*

      How much of your dissatisfaction with your current job would be alleviated by more money? If you’re still going to feel like it’s a dumpster fire, I’d just focus on getting out asap, and not do anything that might negatively affect my chances for decent references.

      Reply ↓
    15. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Go ahead and ask for the raise, but don’t bring up the fact that everyone’s leaving. Just point out the market rate and ask them if they’re able to match it.

      But also, just look for another job unless you like being moderately paid in a dumpster fire.

      Reply ↓
  3. TeenieBopper*

    So, about two and a half weeks ago I was contacted by a recruiter for a job that lines up really well with my skills and experience. It’s a hybrid role and they’re looking for someone in my city. I’m not going to say I’m super specialized or a unicorn or anything, but the population of people with my skill set in my area is probably not the highest.

    The way the recruiter described the job is that they’ve got a lot of legacy reporting systems and they need someone who is able to troubleshoot as they break now as well as transition them to newer technology and systems. My experience with working with recruiters is that when I express interest in moving forward, I usually know within a couple of days whether or not the client wants to interview me. But, I’ve never worked with this company before and I was actually contacted by four or five different recruiters from this company. I’ve checked in once and was told my resume has been sent over. I dunno, they could be a not great recruiting company and overstated their relationship with the client or the client is simply swamped and hasn’t gotten a chance to go through resumes.

    I know who the client is. The job is posted on their website. I’m tempted to just Yolo it and submit an application on my own. How bad of an idea is this?

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      If the client really has this many issues with breaking systems, I think the “too swamped to follow up on candidates right away” hypothesis is likely. (Also, if one of the broken systems is related to hiring, they might not see it unless it comes directly through the recruiters.) I’d sit tight a bit longer. And by “sit tight,” I mean keep looking at other opportunities.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lady Danbury*

      Are these 4 or 5 recruiters actually*from* the company or are they external recruiters who also saw the posting and are looking to make a commission off of it? It would be highly inefficient to have 4 or 5 employees recruiting for a single role (so unlikely but not impossible) and they definitely wouldn’t have 4 or 5 external recruiters, which makes me think that this situation is far more likely to be the latter. I would go ahead and apply directly to ensure that your application isn’t rejected before they even have a chance to review it because they don’t want applications from external recruiters. A lot of companies now include that disclaimer on their job postings, due to the prevalence of this practice.

      Reply ↓
      1. cubone*

        This. If you’re not sure OP, I would ask the recruiter very directly if they are employed or contracted by the company, or an “independent professional”.

        If the latter, definitely apply online.

        Reply ↓
      2. TeenieBopper*

        Yeah, its an external recruiting company. All four or five recruiters had “I’m with ______, such and such recruiting company.” Same with the one I actually talked to. There’s no message on the posting about no accepting from external recruiters. When I talked to the recruiter it seemed like he had at least talked to someone at the company because I had asked why they were hiring locally when they have locations all over the country or the way he described the legacy processes. So, those two things seem to be at odds, mediocre recruiting company vs this recruiter having had a conversation with someone at the client company.

        Reply ↓
    3. Parenthesis Guy*

      ” I’ve never worked with this company before and I was actually contacted by four or five different recruiters from this company. I’ve checked in once and was told my resume has been sent over.”

      I’m confused. Did you agree to let the recruiter send your resume in for the position? If so, applying yourself will cause you to be removed from consideration. Generally, in that case there’s a conflict about who represents you. To make things easier for themselves, they’ll just eliminate you from consideration.

      If you didn’t agree to work with the recruiter, then go for it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Mid*

        That’s assuming the recruiter is actually hired by the company though. If 4 or 5 different recruiters are reaching out, I wouldn’t assume that any of them have actually been hired by the original company.

        Reply ↓
        1. TeenieBopper*

          That’s kind of what I’m concerned about. I get the feeling they weren’t hired by the company, or at least they weren’t the only one or they’re a spam and pray kind of organization. But now that they’ve got my resume and apparently submitted it, most commenters think I shouldn’t do anything. I feel stuck; I kinda wish I had just said thanks but no thanks once they shared the company. Unethical? Maybe. But I’d be in, at worst, the same situation I am now.

          Reply ↓
        3. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

          The company could have been hired, and then anyone who works for that company can reach out to the potential hiree. I absolutely get the same position from multiple recruiters in the same company. Sometimes they’re even attached to the same office.

          Reply ↓
    4. cleo*

      It sounds like the recruiting firm already submitted your name, so no, I would not contact the company directly. That could jeopardize your application.

      Reply ↓
  4. Miette*

    Low stakes question:

    Consultants/Contractors: Do you include your client gigs on your resume/LinkedIn as separate items, or do you put them under a single section?

    I’m asking because I’ve begun working as a fractional marketing executive for a couple of clients, and wonder if listing them as current gigs in addition to the consulting business I operate makes better sense/shows my work in an easier-to-parse way, either for future clients or for potential employers.

    Reply ↓
    1. Lady Danbury*

      I had always listed them as one when I was doing consultant/contract work. Part of the reason was because as a lawyer, the names of my clients were confidential. Therefore, it was listed under a single listing and the bullet points described the work I was doing across all clients.

      Reply ↓
    2. Sloanicota*

      Depends on the rest of your resume, I think. I’ve had about five jobs and one spell as an freelancer. I felt highlighting the freelancing might hurt me more than it helped me (make it seem like I’m not a team player, less committed to a FT role, whatever) so I lumped it all together and focused on the other roles that related more to the job I wanted. But in a different application more similar to what I did freelance, I broke out the different stuff I did into 2-3 subcategories because my FT work wasn’t as good a fit.

      Reply ↓
    3. cubone*

      I like it as a single section, eg. “Contractor” or “Freelancer” (or name of your business, if you have one, but it sounds like no). Then in bullets, I’d put something like: “deliver marketing solutions as an freelance consultant to non-profit organizations, including Client Name, Client Name, and Client Name.” I’d then use additional bullets to highlight more specific successes.

      If you provided service for each client for longer stretches of time with no overlap between clients, then I would consider listing them in a more ‘traditional’ way (like as individual jobs with the title Consultant). But I think that format is more confusing to people if they are >6 months, and overlap with one another.

      Reply ↓
      1. cubone*

        oh sorry, I misread – you DO have a consulting business, but this is freelance work you see as separate from your business? For some reason, this confuses me more (is this work not part of your business?)

        Reply ↓
        1. Web of Pies*

          Yeah, this seems a little confusing, if the freelance work is similar to the consulting work, it feels better to me to just combine them for simplicity’s sake, remember people aren’t going to spend time figuring out what you mean if they’re confused, they’ll just move on!

          I totally feel your pain though, as a freelancer who works across a wide range of industries and disciplines, I just put a “generally, this is the type of work I do/my workstyle/philosophy” up top, and then list several things underneath as like “Featured projects/clients” in place of role accomplishments to try and make it make more sense in a resume/LinkedIn context.

          Reply ↓
        2. Miette*

          Sorry for the confusion – I am a marketing consultant and have operated my business since 2019. Usually I’m just a bit player, and have been listing my work under the name of my business (keeping client names out of public spaces like LI), but lately I’ve been booking these fractional executive gigs where I’ve been hired as their marketing director or VP for months at a time, just not full time. So I was wondering if I ought to start listing those out separately. So like:

          ABC Corp
          Fractional VP of Marketing
          January 2025 to Present

          XYZ Corp
          Fractional CMO
          June 2024 to Present

          Miette Consulting Inc.
          Owner
          January 2019 to Present

          Reply ↓
          1. cubone*

            Ohhhhh I get it more now. Yeah I think you could consider this format, but I could also see something like:

            Miette Consulting Inc.
            Owner & Freelance Marketing Executive
            January 2019 to Present
            -Deliver marketing solutions as an freelance consultant to [type of] organizations
            -Provide interim marketing executive leadership to clients including X, Y, and Z, for 2-6 month periods
            …and then specify some examples, eg. “Led development of marketing campaign as interim CMO at XYZ Corp, resulting in….”

            Your format also works but I do think overlapping dates of roles often require clarification, and “bucketing” them under 1 heading (while still sharing the client names) is just a bit easier to read. It also seems to me like in this instance, it’s less about the specific companies and more that you’re an expert who is called on to provide temporary ad-hoc leadership (which says a lot about your skills!), so wrapping them up into 1 “role” actually seems like it gets that point across better? Hopefully that makes sense.

            Reply ↓
            1. Kay*

              This is pretty much how I do mine too, and I think it reads much better than breaking out the companies. I suppose since I’ve got NDAs with lots of mine I can’t list the companies anyway, but even if I could I like the above format better.

              Reply ↓
    4. Momma Bear*

      If I’m working for a contractor but for different contracts, I listed the parent company and my skills used.

      If I’m freelancing, I might mention key customers (if appropriate) but unless they are dedicated customers, I usually just lump them together.

      Reply ↓
  5. Be Gneiss*

    I’m looking for some help coming up with a new title for my role. I work for a small food manufacturer, which is so close to chocolate teapots that I am surprised we don’t actually make chocolate teapots. I was hired to create/deliver/track training for regulatory compliance (FDA, OSHA) and manage our LMS, with the title of Training Coordinator. That expanded to additional trainings for job-specific tasks. Last year I also started writing and updating policies that we should have had, but didn’t, as it often goes in a company that started out very small, and grew slowly over time. My boss is great, and after I’d written or updated a couple policies, made sure I got a pay increase to reflect my new responsibilities. This year we’re rolling out an initiative to create SOP manuals for all of our equipment, where we’ve primarily relied on (a LOT of) “collective memory” to know how to run things. I’ll be developing the bulk of those. We have reviews next week, and I mentioned that “Training Coordinator” doesn’t feel like it represents the bulk of my job anymore. We don’t have a structured set of titles across the organization, so I guess I need to come up with some suggestions, but I’m stuck. Any ideas or suggestions?

    Reply ↓
    2. Miette*

      I am not in manufacturing so take this as it is: general advice.

      Firstly, I’d think about the type of jobs you want to get into next–whether at this place or the next one–and choose a title that puts you on the career path towards it. Do you want to get into process improvement? Training development? Something more operational? Now might be a good chance to figure that out and make a move that will benefit your progression.

      Secondly, to me “coordinator” seems a low-level title, so if it’s realistic to do so, consider going for “specialist” or even “manager” if you independently manage that area.

      Reply ↓
      1. Another Kristin*

        Yeah, I would go for “Learning and Development Manager” or something like that. You ARE managing trainings (as well as developing and delivering them!).

        Reply ↓
      2. Academic Physics*

        I second that ‘manager’ would make sense for this role. You’re managing a lot of processes independently, so there is a good argument to be made for adding that to your title.

        Reply ↓
    3. cubone*

      This sounds to me like a Learning & Development Coordinator, personally.

      What I would also suggest is remove yourself from your day to day job for a second and think about any future career aspirations you might have, or people who have jobs you might want to do one day. What kind of titles are they using, or had in the past? You don’t have to copy them, but I would keep that in mind so that you are asking for a title that not only reflects your current work, but helps you get where you need to go in the future.

      Reply ↓
      1. Be Gneiss*

        Thanks for this! It is something I will definitely keep in mind. This job was a step down from a higher-stress food safety role at a different (wildly dysfunctional) company, and I am at a point in my career and life where I’m pretty happy being at this level – but you never know what the future will bring!

        Reply ↓
        1. cubone*

          totally fair!

          I should’ve added, it doesn’t just have to be corporate ladder-climbing aspirational (eg. give yourself a Manager title so you can get to Director next), but like, if you see yourself one day considering gov roles, maybe “policy” might make more sense; if HR, then L&D, etc…

          Hope you let us know what you land on!

          Reply ↓
      3. Mid*

        That’s what came to mind as well. Maybe Training and Internal Compliance Coordinator/Manager? Policy and Compliance Manager?

        Reply ↓
    5. KnittingattheBallPark*

      In Pharma you’d be quality and compliance – specialist, manager, or director depending on responsibility level.

      Reply ↓
    6. Hiphopanonymous*

      We have roles at our company that sound somewhat similar, and they fall under Quality Management or Quality Assurance. I think the title that would be most similar is Quality Consultant. Just another option.

      Reply ↓
    8. Fly on The Wall*

      Compliance & Process Coordinator
      Policy & Process Coordinator
      Process & Training Coordinator

      I have a similar role but on the office side of a manufacturer. Slightly different title then above but along same lines. Here we call the “collective memory” tribal knowledge.

      Reply ↓
  6. to be or not to be*

    My boss’s annual review is coming up and I know I’m about to be asked for “anonymous” feedback on her performance. A lot of new things have come up this year, including sloppiness that affects my own work, lack of delegation so I’m not being handed relevant projects and she’ll take them on herself, being short with me due to her own mistakes. And for context all of this is pretty unusual, I’ve worked with her for years and I’m not sure if something’s going on in her personal life or at work that I’m not aware of that is causing her to start acting more stressed.

    I’m worried if I try to give this feedback to my grandboss, that my boss would retaliate on me and assign me even less work / less exciting work. Based on her behavior, I am very concerned that if she gets a poor review, her attitude would devolve more and then it would affect my own career even worse.

    On a personal note, I’m also planning a wedding so I am at a phase in my life where I’m trying to perform at a high level, but I’m not trying to overload myself with work or add extra stress.

    So here’s my question, what would you do: Try to give generic feedback in this evaluation in hopes that something can improve? Just shut up and hope this is just a moment that will pass?

    Reply ↓
    1. MicDown*

      I’m also interested in seeing what responses you receive. Would it be possible to inquire of the powers that be about what steps will be taken to support (read: protect) subordinates to ensure that there wouldn’t be any blowback afterward?

      Reply ↓
    2. Andromeda Carr*

      If you’re willing to give her one more year, this is what I would do in your planning-a-wedding-and-don’t-need-more-stress-shoes:

      1) write down everything you remember about her deleterious changes; dates, details, times, etc. In your personal files.

      2) give her generic feedback for this year.

      3) keep taking notes across the next year.

      4) enjoy your wedding.

      5) if she hasn’t improved by next year, give the honest feedback in as much detail as you feel appropriate.

      Reply ↓
    3. Ostrich Herder*

      I’m of the opinion that you don’t have an obligation to be truthful if the question you’re being asked is a lie. If they ask “Can we have anonymous feedback?” but it wouldn’t actually be anonymous, I’d say it’s very reasonable to keep some things to yourself.

      Reply ↓
    4. Seashell*

      Maybe the delegation issue can be spun so it’s not so negative? “She has so much on her plate and she tries to do it all, so maybe it would be helpful if she delegated some of X and Y, since I’m comfortable with handling those.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Annika Hansen*

        I think that is perfect. You aren’t getting into her mistakes. You are providing feedback that is actionable and would help with the mistakes without dwelling on them.

        Reply ↓
      2. Mockingjay*

        I was going to suggest something similar, but make it less personal: “With the huge increase in project workload this year, Boss has had less time for X and Y. I’d be happy to take on some of those tasks, so Boss can focus on Big Item Z.”

        360 reviews can get into (perceived) personality issues, which we know from this site are rarely received well. Frame feedback as work is affecting productivity or other tangible performance factors, and offer a solution you are comfortable with.

        Reply ↓
        1. Mockingjay*

          Duh, my bad – it’s an annual review, not a 360, but the advice works for pretty much any situation in which you have to provide feedback for coworkers or those above you.

          (Also, cherry pick what feedback you provide. If you have a laundry list of issues, pick one or two that can likely be resolved or that won’t reflect back on you.)

          Reply ↓
    5. Sloanicota*

      Meh, I’d be pretty neutral with some helpful suggestions about options to delegate. The “best outcome” here (that she improves based on your feedback) seem pretty unlikely.

      Reply ↓
    6. Hyaline*

      How many of you are there, and if the department is large enough to have a representative sample of humans, how much are these issues affecting others? Because if there are twenty of you and you’re fairly sure everyone is experiencing these issues, your reply will ideally be part of a data set, not a single anecdote. That’s what a grandboss can use–not “one employee thinks your ties are ugly” but “Feedback is suggesting your apparel is distracting.”<–obviously not a real example.

      But even if not, and it's pretty clear "anonymous" could be pointed back to me, if it were me I would be delicate but honest about the struggles I'd faced with this manager, as I think just hoping things get better is usually magical thinking. If it makes things worse…well, I'd be ok with that risk if it also had the potential to make things better, or make it clear that the management was so dysfunctional that it was time to leave (that is–if this manager doesn't improve AND her manager is not, well, managing her in the long term).

      IMO you should not worry about why she's been a poor performer lately or what the outcome of honest feedback would be, beyond any fears of reprisal, which are natural and you should weigh them with what you know of your company and its track record here–I mean the "she'll feel badly" or "what if she gets put on a PIP" worries. That's for HER manager to worry about. But she can't manage your boss effectively if she doesn't have the full picture of what's going on.

      Reply ↓
      1. to be or not to be*

        OP here and thank you for your advice.

        This is a small team! My manager has 4 direct reports (and I have 2 under me) which is why I don’t feel super anonymous because I believe we’re all having slightly different experiences with her.
        Two reports are very early career independent contributors, one report handles her workload pretty independently, and I’m more of a deputy for my boss and managing big projects. So any specifics I have I don’t think are going to be part of a larger data set and will be easy to tie back to me.

        Reply ↓
    7. Sherm*

      Companies that don’t protect their employees from retaliation when they submit a review don’t deserve a comprehensive review.

      That said, how are things with Grandboss? Do you have the type of relationship with Grandboss where you feel you can ask for a way to voice your concerns without it getting back to Boss?

      Reply ↓
    8. cubone*

      I used to be the kind of person who wrote detailed, thoughtful, specific constructive feedback on these things and I never once saw it actioned or acted on. More than half the time, I don’t think it was even read.

      Do you think your boss (/company) actually wants feedback for the purpose of using it to improve, or is the “asking for the feedback” itself the box they are checking? If they’ve given no indication they have the intent or the tools to support managers in receiving and learning from this feedback, then I think saving yourself the stress of writing it is completely fair.

      Also, FWIW, the kind of feedback you’re talking about seems to me like it would be much better received NOT anonymously by most people, and ideally face to face. I’m not suggesting you need to do this, but this just seems much more…. personal (vs. something very simple like “it would help if you gave more notice of deadlines”). The fact that you say it is a change in her personality from before is a really key point. Whether it’s valid or not, I think a lot of people would be defensive to get this anonymously, in writing, since it’s the kind of feedback that tone and other non-verbal cues would greatly impact how it’s understood.

      Reply ↓
    9. Nonprofit ED*

      The problem with it being “anonymous” is that if you give specific feedback your boss will know who it came from. This happened at an organization I worked for years ago. Everyone was told responses would be anonymous but the COO cut and paste everyone’s comment into the Director’s review. She knew who said what based on what was said such as “never turns in expense receipts on time” who else could that come from but the person that processes expense reports. This Director confronted every single person about what they said. After that we all refused to do the reviews and said if they make us we are going to submit them handwritten using crayons! We were so done and said either the review goes or that Director is going to get told off by every person in the department if she ever confronts any of us again. After that we never had to do reviews of Directors ever again.

      Reply ↓
    10. Goldie*

      I would just have a conversation with her and keep it light on her review. As a manager, I never put something in a review that I haven’t already addressed with an employee. To me it seems like you can give her this courtesy.

      Since she has been great to work with over time and is going through something unusual, why blow it up and tell her boss?

      Reply ↓
    11. Daniel S.*

      Depending on your relationship with your boss, I would give more generic feedback in the review (spinning it the way some commenters have suggested to frame as “Here are ways this has impacted us and could be improved” is good) and give *some* of the constructive feedback directly. I would frame it as “This is out of character and not what I’m used to with you, so I didn’t want it to go in a formal review, but being asked to provide feedback made me think about the patterns I’m seeing and I was hoping to share them with you directly.”

      Again, this is HIGHLY dependent on your relationship, but it could be a route to seeing some changes without the retaliation or impacts of a poor review.

      Reply ↓
    12. JSPA*

      Maybe, “I suspect boss is trying to lighten my load due to my upcoming wedding, but I also sense that she’s overloaded, getting stressed, and trying to juggle too many balls by sheer willpower. I’m pretty sure we would both be happier if X, Y and Z were back on my plate, but am not sure how to tell her that in a way that is received as a win-win.”

      That’s overall positive about her as a boss and as a person, without hiding the fact that work distribution and communications are (situationally / understandably) not going so well.

      Reply ↓
    13. sb51*

      It sounds like Boss wasn’t doing this in the past; could you praise a past year action and say you’d like to see more of it from her this year? I’ve definitely done that for peer feedback and had it seem to land well.

      Reply ↓
  7. Katydid*

    I am at my last day at a job that had me on a PIP since January and then was extremely shocked when I put in my notice two weeks ago. The company is mostly remote and I have found this process to be so weird compared to other jobs I have moved on from. I found out on Wednesday that other Team Leads and Managers didn’t know I was leaving so they were still emailing me meeting invites and things. I started sending messages to people outside my group who I had worked with closely and none of them knew. They seem to keep it very hush hush and it is so weird. Thankfully I took it upon myself to email some of my clients that I was close with to let them know but there wasn’t really an establish process for that. I just did it because I didn’t want them to think I got fired. Has anyone had this type of experience at a smaller, mostly remote company? Or is this just another sign I made the right choice to move on?

    Reply ↓
    2. Miette*

      Is keeping it so hush-hush a typical practice of theirs? I’ve worked places like that and it’s turned into a red flag for me. If they’re so invested in finding the right way to message someone leaving the company, there’s far more wrong than you probably know. It’s good you’re going.

      I’d be more surprised at their surprise that you are leaving. They put you on a PIP, what did they think you’d do?

      Reply ↓
      1. Katydid*

        In my exit interview, they asked why I was leaving and I said I started searching after being put on the PIP because it didn’t seem like I was going to be successful at it. And she said, “We don’t put people on a PIP here if we don’t think they will be successful and get through it, if we didn’t think you could do it we would just terminate you.” In my mind, I thought sure Jan that’s how this definitely works….
        It definitely has been the practice this year, you don’t find out someone has left until you try to email them and it doesn’t work. So glad I am moving on!!

        Reply ↓
    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I had kind of the opposite problem. I gave notice and asked my boss how he wanted me to handle it, including, “I’d like to email [key clients] and tell them.” He said no, he would do it. Then he put out a freaking press release announcing two junior promotions and my departure. I am not that important nor that visible. It was an especially silly move because the company already had a sexism issue, and here he was broadcasting that a woman was leaving.

      Anyway, I share that to say that small companies can be weird. When I left a job at a giant corp, I just told people as it came up, then my team threw me a really nice party.

      Reply ↓
      1. Katydid*

        Yes! When I worked in healthcare before this we always had a potluck or cake when someone left. I don’t need a parade or press release but some acknowledgement would be nice. I have worked here almost four years!

        Reply ↓
      2. bananners*

        For my last job (moved between departments), I asked my boss to keep it quiet until I had cleared with new job they were ready to announce the hiring (public facing position). So, he told no one, even after I gave him the go-ahead. Ever. Not until I left, then hid a teeny tiny announcement in a monthly meeting (not even in writing). I think he was embarrassed he was losing another staff member in such a short period of time.

        I was replying to emails with “I’m sorry, I no longer work in X department” for months afterward…

        Reply ↓
    4. Mockingjay*

      Right choice.

      Management at ExToxicJob made me keep quiet during most of my notice period, even though I desperately wanted to do a transition with the client staff and my coworker who would assume my duties. Of course it made me look bad instead of the company. I secretly let my coworker know, but the customer boss was NOT pleased when he found out – he was worried that tasks might be affected and we only had a couple of days to hand over stuff.

      Reply ↓
    5. Momma Bear*

      A sign that you needed to move on. Transfer of duties and informing key people you worked with should have been high on the list in your notice period. That they didn’t, to the point that people were still inviting you to meetings, shows that they have problems with this process.

      They can put you on a PIP and you can still decide that’s not attainable/not something you want to see through. Let them be all shocked about it.

      Reply ↓
    6. Art3mis*

      Definitely a sign. At my last job people would leave and no one knew at all, even when managers left. You only found out if you happened to be taking over one of their clients or if you were in on the scuttlebutt, which I wasn’t. It was mostly remote, but not a small company.

      Reply ↓
    7. Quinalla*

      My company used to be like this, didn’t want to announce when folks were leaving, so yeah you’d email them and then the head of their department would call to sort out who would be doing that now. It was bizarre. We also set up an unofficial rumor mill to spread this secret news to folks who were always the last to know.

      I have been one of a group that has pushed back and gotten this BS changed so now we have normal announcements when people leave and generally a couple days after they give notice so everyone knows what’s going on.

      I do think this is not the norm OP, but it definitely happens. I think my company just didn’t want to be announcing departures cause it “looks bad” or something, but it looks way worse to be all secretive!!

      Reply ↓
  8. Juno*

    I was recently accepted to a prestigious grad program that seems absurd from the outside. It’s sufficiently niche that I can’t name the actual subject— but picture something like a fine arts degree at an engineering school. I’m prepared with a short explanation when people are baffled, but there is a record-scratch moment every single time I tell someone about the program.

    It’s not a huge deal, but I’m curious if other people have experience with a job or degree that most people don’t understand— not because it’s too technical, but because it just seems weird!

    Reply ↓
    1. lapnep*

      Congrats!! You’ll figure out how to talk about it in a way that fits the conversation. I hope you have a great experience!
      I have an MA from a program that no longer exists and may have been the only of its kind in the US (looks like a few in Europe). Depending on the context I say “I have an MA from xschoolx that was mostly in the anthro department” or “I got to think about what I wanted for 2 years and it impacts my job and thinking every day” or “it was basically a museum studies degree” or “public memory and Marxist anthropology, yes be jealous.”

      Reply ↓
    3. Skip*

      I have my MA in a niche area and the specific degree I did is no longer offered. The school I went to was the only one that I know of that offered it, I took it the first and only time they offered it, and they have since renamed and restructured it significantly. Given that I’ve wondered if someone checking might think that I made it up. On my resume, I put the field in a parentheses next to the degree title because the title of doesn’t always make a lot of sense to someone outside the field of study.

      Reply ↓
    4. Applesauced*

      I recently found out that Harvard Medical School has a Artist-in-Residence program!

      Currently its Saeed Jones, and he’s great!

      All this to say, unique pairings are er… not so unique, and make for some really interesting mixes of study, work, thought, etc

      Reply ↓
    5. Birdy*

      I work in a lab, but I was a History major! I minored in Chemistry, thankfully. Nobody at my school had ever tried the combination before, so both departments went above and beyond in making sure I could pull the combo off.
      My choice in major and choice in career is usually one of the first few questions that come up in an interview. It’s also fun to hear the record scratch when someone new finds out I wasn’t a STEM major.
      Good luck with your studies!

      Reply ↓
      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        I entered college planning to be pre-med and went to med school right after graduation. My undergrad major was English with a concentration in American Studies and I spent far more time in the theater and music departments than in the lab. And yes, there have been a number of “record-scratch” moments over the years.

        I have worked in primary care and palliative medicine. Advanced training in narrative was far more important than anything I would have learned in a 300-level biology class because what I do all day is listen to people tell me stories and try to figure out what they mean.

        Reply ↓
        1. Elizabeth West*

          I feel like anyone in STEM should take some writing classes. I could make a new Dr. Seuss book called “Oh, The Specs I Have Seen.”

          Reply ↓
    6. Mid*

      My friend is currently getting a social sciences degree at a technical university that has never offered a social sciences degree until recently–she’s had people tell her that she’s clearly wrong about attending the school and she’s actually a student of [similarly named school.]

      Reply ↓
    7. Preschool Guy*

      My husband is finishing up a self-designed major in thanatology, which is the cultural study of death and grief as opposed to the biological study. It’s an official course of study at a handful of schools, but not the one where he gets in-state tuition and can do the entirety online while working full-time. I have a passion for it as well but have finished all the degrees I’d like to do, so I will not become a thanatologist myself even though we’re planning to start a death-related business together.
      We both tell people all the time what he’s studying and it’s hilarious to see their faces go from smiles and curiosity as they ask, “What’s that?” to sorry they asked when we explain.
      People at work are often surprised when they find out because we’re not goth, we’re kind of lame, both autistic with many non-death interests, and are friendly and engaging. So many expect death workers to be grim and dour and creepy, but empathy and the ability to talk to anyone are core skills in death work.
      Of course, any conversation that steers into death triggers an unskippable cutscene where we ask if they have a will and advanced directive, and if their family members know their wishes when they die. Side note: all of these things are important for ALL ADULTS to have, even if you’re young and healthy.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ellis Bell*

        I laughed very much at their faces changing “to sorry they asked”! Seriously though, I would sit down next to you all night; absolutely fascinating.

        Reply ↓
      2. Buffy will save us*

        As someone who plans to go into hospice work after I retire (at 60 if my union pension is still there God willing) and gets the same reaction when I tell people, I feel you.

        Reply ↓
    8. post-professor*

      That actually sounds really interesting! What it made me think of was various “experimental sound” artists I follow being hired by tech companies, NASA, etc. to create unique works. Ex. Brian Eno “composed” the Windows booting up sound; NASA has an artist-in-residence program (or used to). You should leverage its uniqueness; instead of hearing the record scratch, maybe people are blown away by how cool it is! Good luck!

      Reply ↓
      1. Juno*

        Thank you— it is really cool! I won’t say who it is, but someone in this thread has already mentioned the specific program I’m in :P Interdisciplinary work for the win!

        Reply ↓
    9. Who knows*

      I have an MS in epidemiology. Even in this day and age, people still think epidermis, not epidemic. Why people forget that skin degrees are dermatology, I don’t know.

      For undergrad I went to a tiny college that didn’t have a separate “school” of science, so I have a BA (not a BS) in Biology.

      Reply ↓
      1. Elizabeth West*

        I have a B.S. in English – not a B.A. I like to say it makes me a professional bullsh*tter, haha.

        Reply ↓
    10. cubone*

      I have something similar and I find that you have to lean into it and be willing to address the awkwardness or confusion very directly with a positive, unshakeable vibe (mine in particular gets a lot of rude “what even is THAT?”, which often shook my confidence when I was younger). The more you can connect it to something they do know, the better.

      The other thing that helps is recognizing the situations where it is not worth the time or energy to bother correcting or explaining.

      Reply ↓
    11. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

      I got my PhD in a program that’s the only one of its kind in the US! There are a few in Europe, but I hear they’re increasingly shutting down. Almost nobody outside the field has any idea what my degree is for. Depending on the context, I will either say “I have a PhD in Generic Subject,” or “I have a PhD in what is basically Subdomain of Generic Subject,” or “I have a PhD in Niche Subfield, which means Generic Subject.”

      Before I learned to be proactive about clarifying, I had some people take some wild guesses as to what Niche Subfield meant! Not real examples, but the equivalent of me studying social work serving a very specific population, and based on the name of the program, someone guessing “So archaeology??”

      It got so bad I actually emailed the head of the program early in my career and asked if it would be misrepresenting myself to list “Niche Generic Subject” as the subject of my PhD on my resume. She said, no, I couldn’t do that, but I could put “Niche Subfield (Generic Subject).” It’s now been long enough that it no longer matters, so I just put Niche Subfield for conciseness, but I still laugh at some of the guesses I used to get.

      Reply ↓
    12. Lit Luvvah*

      I have an MA in Literature frrom an agriculture school. I usually tell people it was a great decision for me and mention the reasons — small, family-like department with lifelong mentors; refreshing lack of pretention about literature; ability to study neat connections between lit and the land; the fact that no one pays attention to an English dept at an ag school so we were doing all kinds of innovative things on the lowdown, etc. Speak about the positives with enthusiasm and people will be happy for you.

      Reply ↓
    13. Poppy*

      A good friend of mine is currently getting their master’s degree at the Center for Cartoon Studies in Vermont! Apparently it’s very well known in the graphic novel / comics world but to those of us not in the industry, it is a very unique choice for a degree.

      Reply ↓
    14. sb51*

      It’s more a school known for two very different things than one only known for one, but I had a bunch of theater nerd friends in high school and no tech nerd friends, so I knew of Carnegie Mellon as a theater school, and it wasn’t until I was looking at grad programs that I realized they had a big tech school, let alone one as prestigious as it is.

      Reply ↓
    15. Brevity*

      Thew New York City Parks Department has its own Rangers, mostly for public education, but also for certain restoration work and other tasks. My husband did that for four years, and both of us *loved* to tell people that he was a New York City Park Ranger, then watch their eyes cross.

      Reply ↓
    16. Weaponized Pumpkin*

      I have a one-of-a-kind MBA from an art & design college, so I know something about this. If anything I have found it to be a great conversation starter and people are intrigued by it but you’re right, no one really knows what to do with us. Two lessons we learned: 1) All of us have had to work much harder at telling our story and explaining how what we do fits what others need. We have to adapt to their framing. 2) Coming out of the program, most of us struggled to get that first job because we didn’t neatly fit any buckets and a degree on its own wasn’t enough. Most of us continued with work that our resume could prove, and expanded our roles there using our degree learning OTJ until we had enough proof to make the bigger move. Years later, we are all doing great and the education was worth it.

      Reply ↓
    17. Covidexpert*

      There’s a very famous playwriting cohort at Carnegie Mellon, which as you know is well known for science and engineering. It’s one of the most prestigious programs in the country so never be embarrassed by your degree!

      Reply ↓
  9. Alexis Carrington Colby*

    Ughhhhh, I really dislike my boss and grandboss.

    They love to say, “we have room with ROAS (a spend into revenue metric) to push with spend”, but then the next week after I increase spend they’ll flag, “what happened here? how do we fix this?”

    I’m just like, “I know we had discussed increasing spend because x,y,z” but they just ignore it.

    Ugh!!! If you have to deal with this, how do you manage?

    Reply ↓
    1. No Witty User Name*

      DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.
      You discussed something and it comes back to you? Refer to the email summary you should be sending out after your discussion/meeting/talk where XYZ was discussed as the course of action.
      Keep it all in an email string.

      If it continues, I’d look for a new job.

      Reply ↓
    2. londonedit*

      Before you increase the spend, could you maybe send them an email saying ‘Further to our conversation about ROAS last Monday, just to confirm that I plan to increase the spend for [whatever] to [whatever]. Let me know if there are any issues with this, or if you need any further information’. Then a) you have it in writing and b) they have advance notice of what you’re planning to do and why.

      Reply ↓
      1. Alexis Carrington Colby*

        Yeah, I try to do this as best I can. The real problem is the grandboss, and then my boss doesn’t step and is super lazy. Earlier this week I did something similar and sent a slack message to the both of them. Then the next step my boss told me in our 1:1, I didn’t have to loop in the grandboss on that piece. It’s been challenging because the grandboss never remembers anything and is always vague with what he wants

        Reply ↓
    3. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

      I have worked with a boss who was like this — would say yes to something, then change her mind after I had already acted based on what she said. I found that having a similar conversation with her 3-4 times on different days before taking action helped immensely because I could be more sure we were on the same page rather than her having a spur of the moment opinion that was just spitballing rather than an actual decision.

      Was it a giant PITA and time consuming? Yes, but there were some things I was pushing hard for that did work out because I was patient. Once I had a “yes” three times, I was more confident she meant it.

      Reply ↓
    4. Da Analyst*

      Is this a real example? Because my first thought was that you misunderstood what was meant by having more room to push spend. in this situation I would think it means that the metric is making up for a shortfall, available of we need to push for a priority, etc. not that we should increase spending there immediately.

      Reply ↓
  10. anonymous for this one*

    Staying anonymous for this question. I am currently a faculty member at an institution that is going through some things, to put it mildly. I am considering looking for jobs outside the academy (I am also looking for other faculty positions but I am not sure how many of those will exist in the upcoming cycle so trying to broaden my search). But, I don’t really know how to do this. How do you all find jobs to apply for? The only thing I know is indeed, and I’ve also been thinking about specific organizations where I might like to/be qualified to work and looking to see if they have posted positions, but that seems inefficient. I know this is a super basic question and I am probably missing many obvious things. Maybe you all can tell me what some of those things are?

    Reply ↓
    1. SophieChotek*

      – Niche job boards (i.e librarians, theater, even opera)

      – There are some higher education job listservs who send emails I get periodically

      – niche / specialty professional associations often have job boards / list serve where people post open positions (as well as call for papers/research projects/posters)

      – LinkedIn; people I follow and have connected with often post open positions in their field /company

      – Some state / county / federal departments will also send announcements of job openings (I know that may not seem safe atm, just mentioning it); I get weekly emails about job openings at the VA for example and depending on how profile is set up USA.jobs

      – Your network; could ask if someone knows of something open/coming up

      – some libraries / community service places have job support groups

      – some local county / city / states have Workforce or their own job boards / listservs

      – and yes looking at specific organiations/types of organizations you are interested in

      Reply ↓
      1. SophieChotek*

        – someone below mentioned Civic Match

        – there used to Idealist / VolunteerMatch (?) would post non-profit jobs – I feel like I read they recently merged

        – Carney Sandoe used to help educators find jobs in private schools and awhile back it was no cost to applicants; schoosl paid recruiter fees

        Reply ↓
      2. Mid*

        For LinkedIn, you can also set up alerts for new job posting for specific companies/roles (make sure your alerts are as narrow as possible though, or you’ll tend to get a LOT of notifications. You can also change the email frequency from LinkedIn so you get alerts once a day or once a week, iirc.)

        Reply ↓
      3. I'm the Phoebe in Any Group*

        I am looking for a specific but common postion in nonprofits. Any advice on finding those niche boards?

        Reply ↓
    2. Katydid*

      I live in a pretty rural area, so for me I found looking at the local newspaper (sometimes you can view those online), checking company websites and going to the local government web pages for county and state based positions. Indeed also worked to show those more local jobs that wouldn’t be on LinkedIn. I only use LinkedIn if I am looking at remote positions.

      Reply ↓
    3. EMP*

      Echoing some of what SophieChotek says, but digging in on a few:
      – linkedin: even if you aren’t connected to them, find peers, people you went to school with, people you know socially, and see where they work. There’s a lot of companies no one’s heard of and that’s one way to see what people near you (physically or in scope of work) are up to. If one sounds interesting, it’s totally normal to message that person and say “hey this is Myname from ThingYouKnowMeFrom, I’m thinking about career options and would love to know more about your work at Company”

      – professional organizations: I generally think these are kind of a grift and with online networking, they aren’t necessary. I definitely wouldn’t pay to belong to one. Or at least, not more than ~$20

      Reply ↓
    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Where do your students get their jobs? Which employers have contacted you for references? Can you get statistics from the student career center about where people with BS/MS/PhD degrees in your field work?

      Reply ↓
      1. Reba*

        Yeah, there are some online Alt-Ac communities that are geared toward grad students or recent PhDs. I don’t know how active many of them are, but might still be worth browsing for some ideas.
        I don’t really trust what universities or associations say about alt-ac things, like to them it is a buzzword not something they are actually preparing graduates for… but it might also be worth looking into what data your relevant association has compiled. And definitely connecting with people in your field who have been speaking or writing about this kind of transition, if there are any? There’s an obvious continuity problem in that people who leave academia don’t tend to do things like attend academic conferences…but the conversations are definitely happening. Good luck, anonymous!

        Reply ↓
    5. MomofBoys*

      I’m not in academia, but academia adjacent. Can you make a list of institutions in your area and just regularly check their websites? I sometimes find those more current and accurate than job boards. I used to use “higheredjobs” dot com back in the day.

      Reply ↓
    6. Rex Libris*

      Look for regional professional organizations or consortia for fields you’re interested in. They often maintain online job boards.

      Reply ↓
    7. post-professor*

      Facebook has a robust “The Professor is Out” group with a lot of support and lived experience from folks who are on the other side. Worth going on FB for, even if you don’t otherwise use it.

      Reply ↓
    8. deesse877*

      I agree with others that what universities themselves say about alt-ac careers is rank garbage.

      I suspect it’s field-dependent. If you’re in a field where employment outside the university is relatively common (social sciences with policy applications, arts) you probably need to dig and look over the LinkedIns of people with careers like you would like to have. If you’re in a field where it’s very common (pure and applied sciences, professional schools) you’ll need to do the same, but also look at relevant professional associations.

      If, as your verbiage seems to suggest, you’re in a field where there really isn’t much extra-academic employment, like languages and literatures or a small social science like anthro or art history, then I think your first step has to be “who would find my experience as a teacher and researcher a plus?” University administration is the obvious go-to there, and sometimes other educational institutions as well (although private primary and secondary schools often want you to be an alumna of a similar school). Technical writing might be a possibility. If you need to pivot soon, test-prep roles and teaching English overseas are possibilities. Nonprofits and the like also seem like good bets.

      I’m in one of these “there is no path but the professoriate” fields, and I regularly feel intense rage at the way no one prepares graduates for any other form of employment–and that AFTER 7-10 years of poverty wages and unpredictable under- or unemployment in the course of obtaining the degree. It is absurd.

      Reply ↓
    9. Higher Ed Worker*

      HigherEdJobs has both jobs in higher education (including faculty jobs, sometimes), but also jobs that might interest people who currently work in higher ed. Worth a look.

      Reply ↓
    10. Educator*

      You have some good tips here. For what it is worth, I found my current education nonprofit job by identifying the company I wanted to work for, then checking their posted positions regularly. It may have been a little inefficient, but I had a few favorite companies and just set their boards as a group of bookmarks in my browser that I opened every few days. Now, as a hiring manager, I know that they don’t always advertise popular jobs beyond their own board, so I am glad I did. Got me where I wanted to be.

      Reply ↓
    11. Lilian Field*

      There’s a reddit called “leavingacademia” which might be of use. Also, a lot of people who leave faculty jobs end up in other university positions–at least at first. They transition into some other kind of student services, for instance, or various kinds of admin, and then maybe into corporate environments from there. Many, many universities list jobs available somewhere on the website–you can look and see what’s available and what might be a match.
      Also, many university career offices offer something like one appointment a year for alums that are five years out or more. You could ask there as well.

      Reply ↓
  11. ConfusedMarketer*

    How to handle this nonprofit board experience?

    In January, I was voted onto the board of a volunteer-run organization focused on distributing hygiene products to underserved populations.

    I’m passionate about the mission and am eager to put my extensive marketing skills to use via the creation of an email newsletter and individual outreach to potential partners/volunteers/donors.

    When I ask for resources to begin moving forward with the board-approved marketing plan, the group’s co-leader becomes incredibly negative. She immediately shuts down the idea or throws in some previously unknown hurdles.

    The biggest obstacle to my success has proved to be the confusion over when I could start working on the email newsletter. Prior to my application to join the board, a board member’s sister asked if she could create a mock-up of an e-newsletter for a grad school class.

    Her request was approved, but she repeatedly declined to respond to emails and text messages from me, the co-lead, or even her sister asking about the timeline and her interest in sustained volunteering. She finally agreed to meet with the co-lead during a Saturday morning volunteer event to package the hygiene products for distribution.

    Although I had plans, I changed them to accommodate the request to meet with the grad student and co-lead. She was 20 minutes late for our meeting, but we did meet and discuss her project.

    The meeting boiled down to the student presenting her template on a laptop and needing a sign-off for it from the co-lead. She didn’t want to volunteer at all and had done no research on the organization aside from knowing her sister is an active board member.

    Now that issue is resolved, but I am encountering further hindrances to progress about reaching out to past donors or setting up meetings with prospective community partners. Most of the board members remain quiet, but she insists that following up with professional groups is stalking them and the automatic sign-up for general emails. 

    This woman continues to act as a stumbling block as I try to build brand awareness and raise money for this cash-strapped nonprofit.

    Is it worth staying on the board? Should I ask what’s happening with her? Do I ignore her and continue with me efforts? Should I just leave the board?

    Thanks for your time!

    Reply ↓
    1. No Witty User Name*

      Sounds like for some reason you pissed her off. Probably unknowingly for sure. Is there someone you can talk to about having issues with the two of you communicating more to get work /approvals done authorized?
      Of course Im also wondering if maybe she didn’t want a CO lead….

      Reply ↓
      1. ConfusedMarketer*

        I’m not the co-lead. The org’s co-lead is the one causing me the headache.

        My role is exclusively to serve as the e-newsletter marketing person. I have an advanced degree in digital marketing, work for a marketing agency, and discussed working on the organizations’ marketing/community outreach during my interview to serve on the board.

        Honestly, I believe the co-lead is tired of being involved. She trash talks the volunteers and gripes about the donations of products. She also complains when she has to order more of them.

        I haven’t spent that much time with her because my contacts are the marketing committee. So, I don’t know what the issue is. The president/founder knows about the co-lead’s issues with me and has declined to get involved.

        Last thing, we’re all straight white women in our 40s. The president has two kids, including a toddler, who keep her very busy. Meanwhile, neither the co-lead nor I have kids, but we both have challenging jobs.

        Reply ↓
      2. ConfusedMarketer*

        I’m not the co-lead. The woman causing me the headache.

        When I interviewed to join the board, I mentioned my desire to work on marketing/community outreach. The president and co-lead were both present and both supported my joining the board.

        The marketing committee assigned me the role of overseeing the e-newsletter. Neither the president or co-lead are on this committee (they’re on the executive one).

        Given that the co-lead trash talks the volunteers and is always stressed, I don’t believe the negative experience is exclusive to me.

        Reply ↓
    2. MsM*

      Yeah, this group doesn’t seem ready for prime time to me. You can try feeling out some of the other members to see if they have any insight into why this person’s being so obstructionist and/or strategies for dealing with that, or just put it on the table that you’re confused why the approved plan is meeting with so much pushback and that you’re at a loss for how to proceed, but I’d be prepared to walk away. At this point, are you even confident you can promise donors and potential partners that you’ll be able to use their support effectively, or will that run into hidden obstacles, too?

      Reply ↓
      1. Mid*

        I think you have three approaches.

        1. You could have a direct meeting with the co-lead and lay everything out to her similar to how you’ve done it here. Explain what the typical best practices are for marketing, explain what the purpose of your marketing plans are, and why they need to happen (not a long lecture but a summary–something like “email lists are the industry standard because they help increase visibility and increase donations and engagement, which keep the organization alive and functioning. Unsubscribe buttons are easily available for anyone who doesn’t want to be on the email list.”) Ask her directly why she’s obstructing you at every turn (though in softer language.) This might work, because it’s possible she doesn’t realize how big of an obstacle she’s being/the larger pattern of what sounds like her being burnt out on the org. It also might nuke any semblance of a relationship you have with her and make things worse, depending on her personality.

        2. is doing what MsM suggests, asking other people to see if they have any insight on how to deal with her/work around her.

        3. Lay everything out at the next board meeting (you don’t have to directly say co-lead’s name, but you can say that you’re “getting a lot of resistance when trying to implement very basic and industry standard marketing practices like email lists”) and ask if they think it’s worthwhile to continue your relationship moving forward, since they don’t actually want marketing to be done. The tone on this is a little tricky, you don’t want to come across as petulant/tantrum-y, just keep things light and matter of fact. Explain that it’s a waste of everyone’s time for you to keep trying to essentially get water from a marketing stone.

        Because it sounds like you have skills and talents that would be greatly beneficial from any number of nonprofits, and you don’t deserve to waste your energy on an organization that’s refusing to do basic marketing, and therefore will likely be on a long, slow decline. I get wanting to support the mission, but this organization doesn’t seem like it’s going to be around for long if they don’t want to send emails out or follow up with community partners.

        Reply ↓
        1. ConfusedMarketer*

          Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful and nuianced take on the situation! I really appreciate your description of the three options.

          At this point, I am likely to go for number 1. The co-lead and I actually live a short drive from one another. I think a casual coffee meeting could work wonders.

          As for involving the other board members, everyone is swamped and rather distracted. It could serve to cause more problems than anything else.

          Last thing, thanks for the vote of confidence in my ability to help other nonprofits. I love to give back, especially to causes tied to women’s well-being.

          Reply ↓
          1. Mid*

            I think 1 is a great option!

            It wouldn’t surprise me if 1. she hasn’t realized how much she’s being an obstacle/how negative she’s coming across, 2. it’s some small amount of defensiveness (probably not the right word, but I can’t think of a better one) from past people offering to help out and not delivering what they promised (which is so common in really small, new nonprofits!) similar to the newsletter from the grad student sister, and from being so involved in all parts of the org and not knowing how to let go/let other people be in charge of things, and 3. possibly subconsciously thinking of marketing as annoying ads/spam emails that are probably filling her inbox and not wanting to be like that, without understanding that good email newsletters are highly important to keeping your org running!

            I hope the meeting goes well, whatever the outcome is! Best case, you and her have a friendlier and more productive relationship, but otherwise, you might come to the conclusion that she isn’t going to change, and hopefully that lets you move on without guilt, if that’s what ends up making sense. Best of luck!

            Reply ↓
  12. lurkers*

    What’s the “drama” at your work right now? Currently there is a member of my office who is new to this area of the office trying to get using the stairs outside of an emergency banned because its “ablest” and “fat-shamming” to use the stairs because we are on the 5th floor with 4 levels of parking garages and no one would ever choose to take the stairs voluntarily. HR told her that people are allowed to take the stairs and unless people were shamming others for not taking them, trying to pressure others for taking them, talking about how much better they were for taking the stairs etc., there was nothing they could do. That simply taking the stairs or stating “I’m going to take the stairs, I’ll meet you there” does not count as harassment. The irony of all of this is the main person who takes the stairs does it because she is severely claustrophobic due to PTSD and cannot be in an elevator, but her job requires her to spend about half her day going to other building in our complex to get signatures, collect hard copies, deliver hard copies etc. She also just like taking the stairs, so do a lot of the rest of us who spend all day looking at our computers and enjoy the extra couple minutes to stretch our legs when we need to go to another floor or building.

    Reply ↓
    1. Irish Teacher.*

      Well, that’s bizarre. It’s…ableist to allow people to make their own decisions and treat them like autonomous human beings?

      The drama in my workplace is about next year’s return date (next school year, that is). The vote ended in a dead heat between Friday, the 22nd of August and Monday, the 25th, so the vote is being redone and there is a whole load of stuff about how it should be done by secret ballot instead of tick the box in the staffroom, so nobody is “influenced” and questions about whether votes were accepted past the deadline and who is entitled to vote (whether say people who are going to be on maternity leave at the start of next year should be allowed to vote, that sort of thing).

      (If we go back on the 22nd, we can take an extra day off somewhere in the year (possibly the 16th of March, as St. Patrick’s day is a Tuesday and we could make it a four-day weekend), but like…it’s not that big a deal either way.

      Reply ↓
        1. Admin of Sys*

          idk, i always liked it when day 1 was right before a holiday or weekend, though we usually did Thursday not Friday. The first day of class is almost always a loss from a learning perspective anyway, since everyone is too busy saying hello to folks and finding their ways to their classes, etc. Making it right before the weekend means everyone just accepts that and then Monday is the day you actually buckle down and focus.

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          1. Irish Teacher.*

            Honestly, we probably wouldn’t have classes that day anyway. It would most likely be a case of bring the 1st years in for an assembly and show them around the school and stuff and then have teachers’ meetings. That sort of thing.

            It’s basically just due to the way the year lands. Starting back on the Monday is necessary to meet the number of days required (in order to finish up by the bank holiday before the Leaving and Junior Cert. exams start), so starting a day earlier gives us an extra day off during the year. We also had the option of starting on the Thursday, but nobody wanted to go back earlier than the 22nd.

            Reply ↓
          2. Cabbagepants*

            My school would always start on a Thursday and I loved it! A day to get reactivated, a day to talk about the coming year, a weekend, and then you’re ready to go back for real.

            Reply ↓
            1. Unauthorized Plants*

              My undergrad always started the Wednesday before Labor Day, so week 1 = 3 days; week 2 = 4 days; week 3= regular 5 day week. It was a nice way to ease in to the semester.

              Reply ↓
      2. Jeneral*

        US teacher here. Starting actual classes on a Monday, Tuesday, or even Wed is truly awful in my opinion. Preparing for and then having the first day with students is exhausting, trying to get everything off on the right foot. Starting later enables a much smoother rollout and lets kids adjust too to having to get up earlier, etc.

        It’s great that they let the faculty vote on this!

        Reply ↓
      3. Teacher Lady*

        Oh man, this kind of thing is a constant source of drama in my district. Contractually, teachers work 183 days: 180 with students and 3 in-service days. Those 3 in-service days can either be 3 days in August (we start after U.S. Labor Day, which is the first week of September), or 2 days in August + 1 in January (returning a day early from Winter Break). At most schools, this is set by staff vote, and it is acrimonious AF. I actually find this a benefit of working at a semi-autonomous school (in-district charter), because we don’t vote on it, our principal just decides, so even if there’s grumbling, at least there’s no drama.

        Reply ↓
      4. Educator*

        I used to be responsible for designing the calendar for a district of about 20 schools, to be then approved by the school board. It was honestly the wildest part of that whole admin job. So many people lobbying for the most random things! No, Earth Day is not going to be a day off. No, we cannot start the school year in mid-September. The wildest year was when the board passed a resolution stating that our calendar would give time off for federal and state holidays, but not religious holidays (because they had historically been the Christian ones, and that was not helpful to many families in our increasingly diverse area). I honestly cannot believe I made it out of that year alive. SO MUCH DRAMA!!

        Reply ↓
      5. JelloStapler*

        People lately get so offended by others choosing different things than them. As if the person is choosing AT them. It’s an undercurrent in society right now for sure.

        Reply ↓
    2. Anon for this one*

      I’m in an industry where we are often on-site at high-profile locations doing unrelated jobs (something like cleaning or security services). For these clients, we sign an NDA. We also have a company wide NDA regarding posting anything company-related to any sort of news or social media without explicit prior approval. This is not precisely common in our industry, since a lot of companies don’t work with high-profile clients, but it’s not considered unusual either. The NDA isn’t punitive by any means, we just can’t disclose the client in any way without their specific prior permission.

      So naturally someone posted a video taken on one of these properties to TikTok and the client is pretty sure it’s someone from our company. Client is furious. Boss is furious. Meetings with legal are happening. If it is one of our guys they’re going to be extremely fired and probably blacklisted industry-wide. But we don’t know who posted the account, so legal is investigating. I think a PI might be getting involved at some point, mostly to show the client that we’re doing our due diligence so please don’t sue us into the ground.

      Reply ↓
    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      This is an insane rabbit hole that several somebodies have gone done. This is even worse than the food-police debate because it’s at least tenuously connected to doing one’s job.

      Anybody who interprets an honest, off-hand “I’m gonna take the stairs, see you in a few” as an ableist slur needs to get out of their own head.

      Conversely, anybody who says “I’m gonna take the stairs…” with a snide intonation that’s a comment about somebody else’s health needs to get shut down hard. As in “Dude, does it make you feel good to insult and belittle your coworkers? Really? What are you expecting to happen here?”

      Reply ↓
    4. Wilbur*

      Executive leadership has declared we’re going back to 5 days in the office (from 3) citing the “business climate” without explaining what that means. My division leadership just said nobody likes it but this is how it’s going to be. I’m kind of assuming they’re shooting for a soft layoff.

      Reply ↓
    5. Rex Libris*

      I’ve known people that seem to think that any time someone does something differently than they would, it’s some sort of personal attack. Sounds like basically the same thing. Some people’s need for external validation is pathological.

      Reply ↓
    6. Shipbuilding Techniques*

      The stair thing makes me laugh!!
      We need some low-stakes drama at my office; it’s boring here.

      Reply ↓
    7. TeaMonk*

      Clients fighting, one department had a shootinh, and I had to answer a lot of questions about did anyone ask you to do anything illegal

      Reply ↓
    8. Mid*

      I love taking the stairs, and I used to work on the 16th floor of a building. Especially when the weather was bad, I’d take the stairs after lunch to wake up from the post-food sleepies. (Also, I had a period of about 8 months where a medication I was taking was causing some stomach issues, including a lot of gas. 16 flights of stairs did wonders to help ease that issue, and no one would want to share an elevator with me during that period.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Elizabeth West*

        At TechJob, I would use my breaks to go up and down the three-story staircase as a little workout. Twice a day, every day. It started as a conditioning exercise before my 2014 trip to the UK (since I knew there would be a lot of stairs) and gradually became part of my routine.

        Then other people started doing it, and it kind of ticked me off because 1) it was my getting-away-from-everyone time, and 2) I could not go as fast as I wanted if their butt was in the way.

        I don’t know if we’d be allowed to do this in my current building. It’s a tall building and the fire alarm keeps going off (someone always burning popcorn, I guess) so I assume they would want to keep the stairs clear.

        Reply ↓
    10. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Absurd. At FinalJob when I had to go to the “modern bit” if the site, I always avoided the glass lifts and open escalators because both triggered my heights phobia, making me feel very dizzy and nauseated.
      Other people might be claustrophobic.
      We all have differing needs and it’s ableist to force people into lifts. Let everyone choose their path, without criticism.

      Reply ↓
      1. allathian*

        I hate heights, tight spaces, and crowds, so riding a crowded glass elevator would be uncomfortable for three reasons. I don’t call those phobias because my reactions aren’t strong enough. Mild discomfort and slight anxiety? Sure. Full panic? Nope, at least not unless the elevator stops between two floors.

        Reply ↓
        1. JustaTech*

          I’m not good with heights (or as I describe it, downs) so I don’t take the very open central stairway in my building. I think it comes up about once every time we get a new person “hey, where are you going?” “Oh, I take the back stairs, I don’t like those stairs.” “Oh, ok.”

          The idea that someone has the energy to make this into a giant “thing”, gosh.

          Reply ↓
    11. Anon For A Reason*

      It’s around scheduling this week. We can only do Y after X is finished, and we can only do Z after Y is finished. We never know when X will be finished because it depends on how many items are involved. (More items means it takes longer.) It’s usually not a problem, but someone who does Z has to leave early sometimes. People who do Y are sometimes at lunch when Y is ready to be started, so Y doesn’t always get done immediately after X. So grand boss decided people should eat a heavy breakfast so they can delay lunch in order to do Y immediately after X. This is unreasonable for many reasons, and on top of that grand boss was telling people what they should eat so they don’t get hungry at a reasonable lunch time. They must delay lunch until whenever, as far as grand boss is concerned. No, they’re not a nutritionist, and it’s not the first time they’ve wildly overstepped.

      Reply ↓
    12. Jay (no, the other one)*

      When I was in residency one of my closest friends always took the stairs “because it’s healthier.” I spent 2.5 years hearing about how much better off he was for walking up four flights (or running in an emergency). Then he trashed his knee and had surgery and was unable to use the stairs for a month – and the first time I rode in an elevator with him I realized he was claustrophobic. Dude. Do what you need to do but please do not shame me for not doing it while you’re lying about the reason.

      Reply ↓
    13. Ellis Bell*

      Oh that is some excellently unhinged drama. Yeah, no, that’s not how accommodations work at all! Adaptations mean people can do things differently to each other, not that there’s inherent shame in not forcing everyone into conformity.

      Reply ↓
      1. Manders*

        Yeah, it seems like ableist would be assuming that everyone can take the stairs and therefore elevators are unnecessary?

        Reply ↓
    14. Melody Powers*

      That sounds really frustrating.

      We’ve got a coffee thing going here. There are only a few people here, including me, without any certifications in our field. One person keeps trying to get us to make coffee even though it’s definitely not our job and it’s generally agreed that everyone is responsible for making their own coffee if they want some and there isn’t already a pot going. My grandboss heard it was an issue before I started and immediately said it was unacceptable to treat coworkers like they’re here to serve you, but it seems to be escalating again after a period of improvement, with a lot of snide comments from everyone else rather than any direct action. Personally I just say that I’ve never made coffee because I don’t drink it and continue to suggest that this person make their own if it comes up.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bitte Meddler*

        Like, a grown-ass adult walks up to you and says, “Hey, make some coffee for me.”???

        Is this person a man, by any chance?

        Reply ↓
    15. Nusth*

      A coworker who I was no fan of and who quit a couple months ago with nothing lined up (to travel, mostly) just got back to the states and asked me about the possibility of coming back to the team to re-fill his role … except we HAVE filled his role, and she’s starting Monday!

      I’m secretly pleased to be able to say no (we had a personality clash and also I feel like the new hire is gonna be a WAY better fit for the role), and simultaneously boggled that this was his plan. He left for four months to travel basically because he was feeling sick of the job, didn’t feel like it was paying enough money, and wanted to consider living in another country (how? Idk – he doesn’t have other citizenship). The call after I said our boss likely wouldn’t be able to rehire him was awkward – he said he decided not to live in the country he visited because wages are lower (obviously? It was SE Asia?), he implied that he originally quit because he thought we were nearing layoffs (we’re growing?), and that now he’s going into education (I thought he wanted more money?). He’s getting coffee with my boss next week and I can only imagine the same questions will come up. I would love to be a fly on the wall!

      Of course, the schadenfruede is limited because it truly is terrible out there in the job market. I don’t wish that on anyone. But I’m only more and more baffled at what he thought his plan was going to be?

      Reply ↓
    16. Tilly*

      My company was mentioned in a news article about book bans. We have nothing to do with education or books. But we sit in a school district with low test scores and our facility somehow got looped into the article. I have an exec who wants me to get the sentence retracted. And so my day has been trying to explain the first amendment in a non-condescending way and trying to politely say I don’t have time to create a counter-media strategy over a sentence in a publication with very low readership.

      What was the question yesterday, what people should know about your profession? Corporate Communications – you will never have the day you have planned. You will always be behind bc of some perceived crisis. American Auto is the only TV show where our job was somewhat accurately portrayed.

      Reply ↓
    17. Elle Woods*

      My employer is in the process of remodeling one of two restrooms on our floor. There is a small group of people who have REALLY strong opinions on what color it should be painted.

      Reply ↓
      1. bananners*

        At my last job the restrooms got remodeled and they painted the wall behind the mirror a startling shade of chartreuse, because that’s the paint they had leftover from the last time a building in the complex got new paint. People were disgusted.

        Reply ↓
    18. Teacher Lady*

      We have an extremely high number of people out on parental or medical leave, and only one substitute, so many people are covering bits and pieces of other people’s jobs (cause you can’t just not have a teacher in Room 202, but you also can’t just not cover IEP minutes). Some of the people who are covering were rewarded with super nice branded school sweatshirts. Many of us who are also doing significant or even more coverage, were not. Where’s my sweatshirt?!? If you are going to keep hounding me about [redacted], you had better bring me a sweatshirt next time you come to harangue me!

      Reply ↓
    19. DJ*

      As long as they have the option of a lift then staff should be able to use the stairs. As well as getting in incidental exercise or used by those who have lift phobias, they are often quicker to rung between floors!
      There is the issue of stairs needing to be a certain standard or staff won’t be covered if they are injured using them!

      Reply ↓
    20. Procedure Publisher*

      M365 needing a phone app. The Teams channel for it shows a lot of people who have strong feelings about using an app on their personal phone. I already have one app on my phone to be able to remote into work, so what is one more.

      Reply ↓
  13. Tiny Clay Insects*

    I know there are a lot of writers here besides me, so I’d love to discuss some writing career stuff.

    First off, more generally, how do you balance your time? I am writing in addition to teaching college not-quite-full-time and also operating a small travel business with my husband (group tours in the summer when we aren’t teaching). I struggle to have a regular routine for writing, and I also struggle to pace myself. Like, I finished my last novel in 3 months of fast, intense work, but hadn’t written anything new for over a year before that. I also had my debut novel come out last summer and it was hard to juggle all the “extras” that came with that (because I had this sense of “I must do everything within my power to help my book sell!!!!!” maybe because it came out from a smaller press and maybe just because I’m neurotic).

    Also, more specifically, I recently left my agent (amicably, and my choice) and I’m now querying again to find a new one. How do I not lose my mind? (I recently deleted social media off my phone, but now spend way way too long refreshing Querytracker.)

    Maybe this question isn’t so much about looking for a new agent, specifically, but how do you manage the uncertainty that comes with trying to have a writing career? I am terrible with uncertainty.

    Reply ↓
    1. WestsideStory*

      The only trick I know (and this is not unique to me, many other writers do it as well) is to spend one hour writing – or commit to write 1,000 words a day (that’s about four pages). It’s like exercising at home or running or going to the gym – you have to MAKE time. Mornings are good for some, late afternoon or late evening for others.
      When I am in business mode (not creative writing) I still commit to 1,000 words or one hour equivalent, which can be creating promotional material or reading industry blots/websites or just writing lists of things so I can keep track and prioritize. Maybe you would spend the hour looking up agents on PublishersMarketplace or peeking into the acknowledgment pages of books you like to read.
      Nothing everything you write has to be perfect. 1,000 words of a good first draft with [ ] for stuff you plan to add in later eventually makes you efficient.
      Like everything, practice improves your skills. Writing is a muscle that needs to be exercised – you can do squats or you can dance, or just walk to the grocery store.
      I learned one thing a long time ago about time use: do one thing a day that moves your [writing] career forward, do one thing for yourself that makes you happy, and where possible do one nice thing for somebody else. When I’ve done all that, my mind can rest because small goals add up eventually.
      Hope this helps!

      Reply ↓
    2. JB*

      I get up at 6:30 AM to write first thing in the morning.

      I’m also working around a day job (which also happens to be writing, but technical writing) and I found that scheduling after work just made it a lot harder to guard that time. Suddenly there are errands that need to be run, or I need to stay late at work, or I get home and the cats have made some unholy mess, or my sister gets home early…but nobody has any expectations of me first thing in the morning. If I end up with more time to write after work too, that’s a bonus.

      I don’t do tradpub in part because I’m not interested in the uncertainty. (They’re also not interested in the niches I write.) No uncertainty for me because I know exactly what my publishing schedule is for each pen name – I’m the one who created the schedule.

      There are definitely benefits to working with a smaller press, but keep in mind you’re also then working with the worst of both worlds – doing as much promo work as an indie author, but doing it to someone else’s schedule. Not going to push you in one direction or another, but maybe the answer to how not to go nuts while you look for a new agent would be to try putting out a little indie published project for yourself in the meantime, just to see how it feels. Even if you decide it’s not the way you want to go, it’ll be an experience, you might learn something. (Of course, your ability to actually do this might depend on standing contracts with your publishers, which might be harder to untangle if you’re not currently represented.)

      Reply ↓
    3. Hyaline*

      I could have written this almost exactly, heh, except without the agent search (but my editor just left midcontract…) and I’m currently teaching full-time (and have kids and those kids have activities!). I’ve been here for a while in the “doing both” space (I’ve published five, soon to be six books traditionally with a big five publisher), so I’ll write up some advice but also just commiseration–it is very hard, and it’s pushed me close to burnout a couple times, including right here, right now. (The end of this semester cannot come soon enough.)

      1) When it comes to social media and “doing all the things” to push your book: This is both depressing and freeing at the same time, but it’s very, very rare that anything we as authors can do will move the needle very much in terms of sales (and when it happens, it seems to be mostly luck). My advice…just do what you want to do and don’t worry about the rest. Want to organize a launch event? Cool, do it–but it won’t generate sales. Want to be on Insta or TikTok? Cool, but do it because it’s a fun extra, not because you think you need to. Going to cons? Only if it’s enjoyable for you and you are fine with it being a sunk cost. Take a step back and evaluate–IMO strip it all out and intentionally add in only what you WANT to do.

      2) In terms of schedule–do what works for you. I see you’ve already got a “write an hour every day” person and a “early morning writer” person, so I will be contrary and say–neither of these work for me! Every semester I work up a new writing schedule (and admittedly, some work better than others!) and I hit writing hard over semester breaks when my schedule is more open. For example, for me, an hour is not sufficient to get into deep work, so an hour a day is actually far less useful to me than, say two-three hours twice a week. So that’s what I, personally, aim to do–two or three blocks per week where I’m not teaching are designated and scheduled as writing time. I get my teaching schedule and then schedule my writing blocks, and nothing else gets scheduled over those.

      Part of this is know thyself–how do you write best? Some of my friends write in 20 minute sprints and knock out whole books that way. Some of my friends set aside day-long blocks a few times a month and knock out whole books that way. Maybe you really do work best intensely and all at once–so maybe cutting back on that summer side gig so you can devote a couple months to daily, intense writing could be your key (though maybe that was a one-off, and hey, fun fact, some books just demand to be written differently!). Knowing how your creative mind works and what is conducive to your best work is the key–and then schedule for it to the best of your ability. (This means saying no to other stuff sometimes, and that’s the really hard part.)

      3) Writing time is for writing. Yes, checking socials, reading up on the industry, reading books in your genre are all acceptable to excellent uses of your time in a professional sense, but they aren’t writing. Reading PW will not write your next book. Updating TikTok will not write your next book. Writing your next book writes your next book. So give yourself grace on other stuff and prioritize writing time if it’s what you want.

      4) I have several friends who have changed agents after publication and every one of them said–it’s much easier this time, with a publication under your belt. Try to breath easier on that, but honestly, if refreshing your email every five minutes is what this season means, hey, it’s just a season :) When we’re on sub, when we’re awaiting replies from agent, when we know an edit letter is coming–some times just run on higher nerves than other times!

      5) Speaking of friends–seek out some fellow writers to commiserate with. Maybe agency siblings (former siblings even!), fellow authors with your press, people you had good rapport with on Blsky, whatever. (The only truly useful thing about social media as a writer, IMO, is using it as a cocktail party where you casually meet people, then develop that connection further in email or whatever). If you have a small group, consider starting a Discord or a group chat or something so you have somewhere to offload the frustrations that non-writers don’t get, and to ask questions, and generally get support. It doesn’t solve the “not enough time in the day” problem, but it does help you see that you’re not the odd one out and everyone is struggling, and give you a place to get some support.

      Reply ↓
    4. Tammy 2*

      I budget for myself 1.5-2 hours a day, 6 days a week to devote to writing stuff, and try to devote 3 of those sessions to writing/revision, 1 to admin stuff (which can include marketing), 1 to marketing, and 1 is a floater based on what needs to be done. If I can’t get to enough sessions during the week, I stack up on the weekends but I always do at least one block early in the morning on Saturdays and Sundays. I write on Zoom (cameras and mics off) with other people from my writing group those days. Most of the time I have to devote to writing comes from working from home a few days a week and not having commute time on those days, and getting up at 5 every day including weekends. (My usual weekday schedule is to exercise first thing, work 7:30-4, and write 4-6 but sometimes I swap the exercise and writing.)

      I’m with a small press for my first book (came out last summer) and the second (coming out in a few months) and am not querying right now, although I may in the future. (You have GOT to stop refreshing QueryTracker! Take it off your phone! At one point I was checking so compulsively I had a critique partner change my password for me.)

      I really relate to the “I have to do everything!” panic, but you just have to tell yourself you can’t possibly and you just have to do what you reasonably can. I try to find satisfaction in the fact that readers who have found my book have loved it (well, most of them, of course there’s that one person who reaaaalllly hated it and made sure to review on every single platform) instead of sales numbers.

      I found trying to publish a book to be a great way to get over having a hard time with uncertainty and rejection, haha. I am not ever planning to quit my day job and look at writing as a demanding hobby that occasionally makes a little money. And I try to focus on the things I can control, like creating work that *I’m* happy with.

      Reply ↓
  14. SophieChotek*

    Low-Stakes Question

    I believe. Ms. Green addressed this (one a post of course I cannot find) about how resumes are marketing documents and we do not have to put everything we’ve ever done. (For example, we can skip that job we only had for two weeks, or possibly cut thing that might “age” us, etc.) This probably has been addressed in relation to applications / online application systems where you certify “everything is true/correct/complete.” (But I cannot find those posts either, atm.)

    I work FT in an industry unrelated to my degrees (B.A., M.A, Ph.D.) in the humanities. (I used to put my grad degrees on 5 years ago as my work experience often related to TA / on-campus positions but I think I can drop those now.)

    I want to apply for a retail job to earn extra money on the weekends for some unexpected expenses (in 6 figures I’ve been stuck with); I am afraid all those degrees might be off-putting when I am literally applying to cashier at a retail store or check people in at the local gym. Can I just not mention my grad degrees and do my last decade or so of work history. + undergrad degree for educational history?

    Would a hypoethetical future employer feel I have lied if they find out later (cause I randomly said something or whatever?) It is all on my LinkedIn if they bothered to look.

    TIA

    Reply ↓
    1. Narnia*

      I’ve done this before — just left off the degree when it seemed like it could be a detriment. I don’t think it would be perceived as lying since resumes aren’t exhaustive. (There’s a small chance some employer may find out and be upset by it, but only in the sense that there’s always a small chance some employer may be upset by anything.) Do you need the education section at all? If you’re concerned about the degrees being a problem and the position doesn’t require/expect any specific education, you could leave off the education section altogether.

      Reply ↓
    2. Honoria Lucasta*

      If you’re applying for retail, you just need a job history that shows you’re a reliable person. The undergrad degree is probably important for retail, because they care a little more about image/appearance of respectability, but I don’t think you have to mention your doctorate.

      When I was a supervisor at a QSR and helped evaluate new employees, we *did* actually have very good results with people who were working a second job to make extra money; they had limited availability, but they were also SUPER reliable and responsible when they were on site so we made do with what they could give us. I wouldn’t necessarily hide your advanced work experience, but I agree that putting all that on your application could get you overlooked as not serious (or as a big red flag, like “why on earth are they slumming it down here”).

      Reply ↓
      1. SophieChotek*

        Thank you.

        Yes – in addition to my other comment (see below) – I think I was (unconsciously) concerned they would not take me seriously (will depart as soon as they get a “good” job to go with that “la di-da fancy degree” or a red-flag (“what’s wrong with them, they cannot get a job, even with a fancy degree”).

        I (like to) think I would be reliable, etc. if I found a retailer willing to give me only weekend shift and understand I won’t be able to fill in for last-minute shifts during the week when I am already working FT

        Reply ↓
        1. Honoria Lucasta*

          Only having weekend availability is going to put you in tighter competition with e.g. students who don’t want to work on a school night. In food service, at least, we were happiest with people who were willing to work one or two weeknight closing shifts a week. If you can be available for a partial late shift (6 or 6:30-close) on a weeknight, you’ll have a better chance. Sometimes Sunday morning is harder to fill, so if you’re available then you might have an advantage.
          Your work experience and maturity will be a big asset for opening/closing shifts, which are where (in my experience) businesses are especially looking for someone who can work efficiently and not take a long time to wrap up final tasks. Those hours after the store closes only drive labor costs up, so the faster you can get out the better.

          Reply ↓
    3. jjax*

      In my opinion, there’s very little risk to leaving these qualifications off of your resume because they don’t sound like they apply to the kinds of jobs you want to find. In fact, leaving them on may be a hindrance because they might see you as overqualified for the roles. You don’t owe them a full accounting of your work history, they only need to know the information relevant to the jobs to which you’re applying.

      Something I want to ask to address the emotional side of your worry – why do you think they’d feel “lied to”? Where does that concern come from? Honesty is not a one-size-fits-all concept, but it sounds like your thinking about this is a bit black and white, so it’s worth examining the roots of your concern to identify whether they come from a practical place.

      Reply ↓
      1. SophieChotek*

        Interesting second paragraph. I agree that I tend to think rather black/white in a lot of things OR I can be in such a grey area I won’t commit at all.

        In this instance, I think my concern is I’ve read statements at the end of online job applications (fill in many fields, click “add job” or “add education history”), the last page is often that I attest that everything I wrote is true, accurate, complete, no crimianl records, etc., etc – and so I often find myself thinking, “It’s true, but it’s technically not complete because I left off X degrees, and have X more jobs I could have put.”

        A resume as a marketing document I am okay with editing, as I see it as a “marketing” document. A job application where I am signing a statement at the end that it’s the complete true…makes me worry (?)

        Reply ↓
        1. Hannaconda*

          I do think this is overthinking it – and as a fellow overthinker, I would (over)think the same thing because that’s just what my brain does lol. But in reality, very few retail jobs/managers would care if they found out. They probably just have the checkbox there so they have extra documentation to point to when they want to fire someone who lied about something important. But if they found out you have a degree or more advanced work history you didn’t list, the chances of them caring at all are really, really small. It’s not like they’re going to take you to court. If they DO care enough to fire or reprimand you, that is super unreasonable & you would probably want to move on to a different retail job anyway!

          Reply ↓
    5. Blondesense*

      If you are uncomfortable leaving it off, address it in your cover letter. You are a solid, reliable employee who WANTS to work weekends. It could be a good thing.

      Reply ↓
  15. Princess Peach*

    I’m pretty new to work requiring travel and a few weeks ago I spent a week visiting a different work site for my company that’s about three hours away. I put in for reimbursement for my travel, hotel and meals. Travel and hotel were covered but they declined to cover my meals saying I should have brought food for the week from home and if I chose to eat out that’s on me. My meal expenses were pretty modest I thought (about $25 a day for everything). I accepted their feedback and I don’t think I’m in trouble but I feel silly and presumptuous for assuming meals would be covered. Is this normal? Should I do anything to make sure my boss knows I wasn’t trying to take unfair advantage of company money?

    Reply ↓
    1. Applesauced*

      That’s the weirdest comment I’ve ever heard about business travel.
      I don’t think you did anything wrong.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Agree. I guess be proactive with your boss about understandings for travel expenses now. I’ve definitely had companies refuse to cover meals if you’re close enough to your usual home office, but they should have explained that to you in advance.

        Reply ↓
    2. MsM*

      WTF? No, that is not at all normal. Push back, and if they continue to be weird about this, I’d get your resume in order.

      Reply ↓
    3. Seashell*

      Was there a kitchen in your hotel room? If not, it seems nutty to expect you to bring and eat cold food for a week.

      Even if there was a kitchen, I would still expect them to cover your meals out, and, if they wouldn’t cover it, to at least warn you ahead of time.

      Reply ↓
    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      The idea that you’re supposed to bring food from home when traveling for a WEEK is ridiculous. You weren’t being presumptuous OR silly for assuming that meals would be covered. I recommend asking your boss for guidelines/policies regarding travel reimbursement.

      Reply ↓
    5. ThatGirl*

      WHAT? That’s ridiculous.

      Does your company have written travel policies? Mine does, including how much per meal/day is reimbursable – might want to check that first. But I’m bewildered by the idea that you were responsible for bringing food from home when you were staying in a hotel. Food is a totally normal business expense, even more so than hotel stays.

      Reply ↓
    6. SophieChotek*

      Agree. Usually you get a per diem amount (e.g $25/day)
      It should have been clear otherwise, IMO, especially if you are traveling / away from home for all day / overnight

      Reply ↓
    7. Ginger Baker*

      This is weird and out of step with general business practice. I first would check the actual policy (to make sure you aren’t dealing with a Guacamole Bob going off on their own!) to confirm that the policy is NOT to reimburse for food on business travel. After that, if that is the case, I would drop it and see no need to mention it: they are the weird ones, not you. But I would also consider if this is a place you want to work for in the longer term, because if that IS the official policy, it’s likely not the only super weird thing about the company…

      Reply ↓
      1. Elitist Semicolon*

        Even if it is policy, I’d still consider asking for reimbursement on the grounds that it was not made clear at the start of the travel arrangements. If the company can’t afford $175 worth of meals for a week of business travel, then there are other issues behind the scenes.

        Reply ↓
    8. 1,000 Snails in a Lady Skin*

      oh no no no. that’s not normal! I would absolutely expect meals to be covered during travel.

      My company offers a per diem of $75 per day whenever you’re traveling (but within reason, so if you don’t catch a train leaving home til 4pm, you wouldn’t expense breakfast or lunch; and if you get home at 2pm you wouldn’t expense dinner).

      I don’t have any advice on how to talk to your company about it but want to validate you that you were not being silly and presumptuous!

      Reply ↓
    9. Hyaline*

      You were staying in *hotels* and they expected you to bring food from home? That’s bizarre. I could MAYBE see this if you were staying in an apartment or AirBNB or a suite with a kitchenette or something–and I’d still find it strange and not a good look–but at least then you could actually store and cook food. But in a hotel, with a crappy mini fridge and maybe a microwave? Nope.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        I would still expect to be reimbursed for the cost of groceries! When I’m at home, I am making meals out of staples that might last me weeks at a time (pasta, beans, oils, seasonings, etc.) but if I am at say, a Residence Inn with a kitchen, I have to start from absolute scratch.

        This is absolutely bonkers and I would be flagging this to someone higher up, HR, etc. because it’s so far outside business norms.

        Reply ↓
        1. Guacamole Bob*

          Even if you are staying in a place with a kitchen, it’s bonkers from a time perspective! When my family travels and stays in a place with a kitchen, we spend a lot of time planning out what to pack (e.g. spices), what to buy when we get there, what needs to be in a cooler versus dry goods, whether we need to take X or Y supplies or utensils in case they aren’t provided, etc. That’s a wild level of effort for a business trip.

          And once you’re there, cooking in an unfamiliar kitchen takes real time! Most business travel is pretty draining, a lot of the time it means working weird and extra hours, and people aren’t going to be at their best work-wise if they are spending extra effort sorting out what they’re going to eat.

          Reply ↓
        2. Hyaline*

          Yeah, still not good to not reimburse regardless but it’s crossed into absolutely bananas if there’s no good way to cook meals!

          Reply ↓
    10. Spencer Hastings*

      I’m not a work travel expert, but that doesn’t sound normal to me. The combination of staying in a hotel but being expected to bring your own food for the week seems unusual.

      I’d understand if meals simply weren’t included in the reimbursement policy — it’s the phrasing of “if you chose to eat out, that’s on you” that strikes me as particularly odd. Especially if it’s not spelled out in your employee handbook or anything.

      Reply ↓
    11. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      That’s bananas. I would would want to see the actual company policy. This smells of someone who has gone rogue, mad with the tiny power they have seized.

      It reminds me of the letter where some accounting guy dinged people in their travel expense reports if they ordered guacamole on a burrito at Chipotle.

      Reply ↓
    12. Lady Danbury*

      Your company should feel silly, because that’s definitely the norm. I’ve seen some travel policies that don’t cover lunch because of the reasoning that you would have to get lunch regardless, but the more reasonable approach (which every employer I’ve had has used) is to cover 3 meals a day, unless 1 or more meals is provided (by the hotel, conference, client, etc). Expecting an employee to bring a week’s worth of food from home is completely ridiculous and definitely not the norm.

      The only thing you should have done differently is ask for your company’s travel policy in advance so that it was clear what was and wasn’t covered. But they’re the ones being unreasonable, not you.

      Reply ↓
      1. Miette*

        I’ve worked at one of those places where lunch couldn’t be expensed unless you were entertaining customers, with the reasoning that you’d be providing yourself a lunch while back at the office, so it’s the same thing. IDK, the ham sammie I’m bringing from home costs a lot less than the snack bar at the hotel smh

        Reply ↓
        1. Lady Danbury*

          That’s exactly why I disagree with that reasoning. At home I have access to a full kitchen, have more time and resources to plan and prep meals, know where to purchase reasonably priced lunch if I choose, etc. On the road, I may not have any kitchen, time for any type of meal planning (prepped or purchased), reasonably priced options nearby, transportation, etc. It’s not an apples to oranges comparison.

          Reply ↓
          2. anonymous anteater*

            That is precisely how government regulations treat meals on business travel. Most publicly funded institutions follow the GSA’s reimbursement tables, which have a certain dollar amount per day for meals, based on the location.
            On your travel day, you get 75% of the full amount, as you can likely eat your first or last meal at home. If you get free meals at an event, the daily rate is supposed to be reduced to account for that.
            But the daily rate also assumes that you will be paying restaurant prices during business travel – it’s significantly more than just for buying groceries.

            Reply ↓
    13. Spring Daisies*

      That’s extremely abnormal!
      I’ve worked at places where the travel policy included a set per diem for meals (based on the federal guidelines that varied by location), and I’ve worked at places where the policy was to submit the itemized meal receipts (one had a no alcohol paid by the company policy and one had an up-to-2 drinks per day policy).
      But in all cases, food during travel was a covered expense, just liked lodging and transportation!!
      Instructing people on business travel to “bring food from home” especially for a week (wtf?!) is completely out of sync with business travel norms!

      Reply ↓
    14. burnie*

      This workplace is being really weird, not you! How exactly were you supposed to travel with a week’s worth of meals? Did your hotel have a full kitchen? Even if it did, the expectation would still be wild, but without one I just don’t understand what they’re even talking about.

      If there is some way to find out who denied the request and then run the situation by somebody else at your company, that’s wise in case it’s a Guacamole Bob situation (past ask a manager letter where one guy in accounting was going rogue). So if the expense was denied by accounting, run this by your manager. If the expense was denied by your manager, bring it to HR and ask for the official policy.

      But 100% know that if your company does expect you to pack a week’s worth of meals, they are the weirdos. Do not feel embarrassed for expensing them!

      Reply ↓
    15. Saturday*

      That’s weird and very annoying. How were you supposed to prepare food in a hotel like you would at home? And at the very least, they should have warned you they weren’t going to cover food because a normal company will cover food when you’re away from home.

      Reply ↓
    16. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      They are being absurd, so don’t feel you need to be apologetic in the least. You are working for loons. Who on earth brings a week’s worth of meals with them.
      Whenever a hotel is necessary, i.e. spending nights away from home, it is extraordinary not to cover meals as well. €25 daily is very modest btw.
      Are they a cheapskate nonprofit? Whatever the org type, I’d worry their finances are circling the drain.

      I’d politely say to your boss that covering meals or having a per diem is absolutely standard for business travel with overnights and ask why is your org so different to the norm.

      Reply ↓
      1. MsM*

        As someone who has worked for nonprofits with stingy travel budgets, I would like to stress that this is still very weird.

        Reply ↓
    17. Miette*

      Who’s “they?” Because how to fix this will depend on who rejected it. Was it the person in accounting that processes your expenses (the Guacamole Bob scenario)? Or someone in your chain of command going rogue? Either way, I’d look into what your company’s travel policies are and push back on this big time. Not reimbursing for meals is so far outside the normal course of business, this really is bizarre.

      Reply ↓
    19. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      The only time I’ve ever encountered this was when meals were covered for free by the venue that folks were traveling to (i.e. a conference with meals included, or an off-site meeting with catering) but an employee chose to go out on their own instead.

      Otherwise this is insane and absolutely worth pushing back on, even coming from a small-nonprofit-that-expects-people-to-share-hotel-rooms context.

      Reply ↓
    20. WestsideStory*

      That is absurd. Next time, before you go, ask the person who handles expenses what the expected per diem amount is they will reimburse for meals. It is not reasonable nor is it the norm that traveling employees bring their own food when on company time.

      Reply ↓
    21. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      That’s bizarre. Are they expecting you to pack a cooler and cookware, and then prepare your meals in the hotel room microwave?

      I’ve done short, medium, and long-term travel. Driveable and multiple time zones away. In the US and in lots of other countries. I’ve never been told after-the-fact that I should have brought groceries with me.

      Reply ↓
    22. Annika Hansen*

      That is very weird. And I work for a state university and they are known for weird, cheap rules. The only exception we have to covering meals is when you are at a conference that provides food. If the conference provides lunch, then your per diem is less.

      Reply ↓
    23. mreasy*

      This is so out of the ordinary for business travel that it’s in outer space. I would make sure to talk to your boss to get the full scope of travel policies before your next trip because they seem like they’re probably bonkers.

      Reply ↓
    24. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      Please don’t accept their feedback! I assume that came from someone in accounting? Talk to your manager, talk to HR, ask *them* what the policy is.

      Please stop feeling silly and start feeling really irritated by this nonsense. That is the reasonable reaction.

      Reply ↓
    25. Annie*

      I’ll throw in my agreement with everyone else. If you’re away from home, for multiple days, at a hotel, you should definitely NOT have to provide your own food. They should cover your meals. There’s no way you should be taking food with you and maybe preparing it in the hotel if you actually have a kitchen. Most hotels won’t have a kitchen.

      Your company (or whoever is in charge of expenses) is being ridiculous. I’d check with your manager because I’d bet higher ups are not bringing food on week-long trips.

      Reply ↓
    26. Can't Sit Still*

      First, any company that has secret rules or tests that you only find out about when you break or fail them is by definition toxic.

      I once worked for a company that didn’t reimburse lunch expenses, because “you’d have to pay for lunch during the work day regardless.” It was definitely odd, but it was primarily to stop employees from taking each other out to lunch while in the office. The difference is, they were very upfront about it, and it was actually included in new hire orientation, so there was no confusion. Managers typically reminded their employees on their first business trip, as well.

      Reply ↓
    27. Decidedly Me*

      Meals have always been provided while I was traveling for business. The closest thing to them not being covered was when the company was catering and if you wanted your own thing it was on you.

      Reply ↓
    28. Ellis Bell*

      I’d probably ask to see the written policy “because if I go on another trip, I’d hate to get anything else wrong” and feel free to add “I’d just love to see the actual instructions on how to prepare food in hotel rooms, so there’s the training element too!” TBH with you if it’s policy it’s not the first time they’ve shocked someone with it, and very likely it’s not policy and this is just someone getting it wrong and making you feel like it’s you.

      Reply ↓
    29. PokemonGoToThePolls*

      That’s weird and cheap and completely unrealistic.

      It’s slightly less unrealistic if you’re driving rather than flying, but that’s still WILD.

      I suspect it depends on your industry, and I can’t speak to what it’s like with a per diem, but whenever I had to travel for work (Hospitality Tech), everything, door to door was covered.

      Reasonable transport to/from the airport (I couldn’t book a limo but an Uber or other car service was fine, or mileage and parking fees, all dependant on the airport and flight times)
      Airport food
      Food on the trip
      Other occasional incidentals like the hotel laundry service if it was a longer trip, or a an international SIM card for my personal phone (no work phone) if I was out of the country, etc
      For meals we weren’t supposed to expense alcohol – unless the customer told us we could (which did happen to me once, he told me to ‘enjoy the hotel and and all the amenities to its fullest’), and were expected to be reasonable, but if the customer said ‘hey you have to try this restaurant’ or ‘make sure you dine in the dining room, it’s great’, you did that, even if it was spendy. My boss was also specific in noting that we shouldn’t need to change how we normally ate to save money, so order the fruit bowl with breakfast, get an afternoon fun beverage, etc, since ultimately we were doing the customer a favor by being on-site.

      I only once got to fly business class though, and that was only one way – the other way I had to spend the 36 hours of travel in economy

      Reply ↓
    30. Tio*

      I have NEVER had meals refused reimbursement when I was traveling, that’s insane. I have had companies who were very strict that no alcohol could be included in the reimbursement even if was within spending limits, but that was very upfront and it was in the policy. Does your company have a written policy that states what is and isn’t covered?

      Reply ↓
    31. Nudibranch*

      If you’re in the State of CA, it looks like they’re required to pay you. (But I’m not in HR, this was just a quick google search).

      Reply ↓
    32. Shiara*

      This is pretty wildly outside norms. The cheapskate company I worked for would put two people per room, but they still reimbursed meals.

      Reply ↓
    33. DJ*

      That doesn’t sound normal. There is usually a $ limit for what you can claim. And it’s not always possible to expect you to buy normal food and cook your own meals eg what if you are in a hotel and don’t have cooking facilities.
      It’s different if you choose to do that or need to due to dietary requirements but they would still reimburse you and naturally expect a receipt!
      Anyhow they should have made it clear in advance.

      Reply ↓
    34. fhqwhgads*

      Not normal, but they also should’ve had expense guidelines and given them to you in advance. $25/day is suuuuuuper low. It’s ridiculous they’re not paying for meals out for a week. It’s not like they sent you somewhere for a month and you were apartment living or something.

      Reply ↓
  16. cubone*

    I posted a few weeks ago about an interview where I ran out of time to answer all of the questions. It’s a large, unionized institution with rigid interview practices that include asking lots of long, complex questions (which I know from my own interview experience, and validated by many networking chats with current employees). Well…. I have another interview with the same institution for a different role!!

    I would love any advice for how to better prepare for these kinds of lengthier and more detailed interview questions, and better manage my time in-interview. I normally feel quite confident in interviews but this format really throws me. Last time, I tried to address every aspect of the question (which is what all current employees advised me to do), and ended up rambling and running out of time.

    As an example of the ‘style’ of questions: instead of “tell us about a time you managed multiple competing priorities”, their version would sound like:
    -This position requires attention to detail and ability to manage multiple tasks with competing deadlines. Provide an example of a time you had to complete a large project with multiple phases and stages. What tools, methods, and strategies did you use to stay on track? How did you communicate with stakeholders throughout the process, and how did you measure the success of the project? What would you do differently in the future?

    …..and based on the number of questions they ask in the 1hr interview, your answer still has to be 2 min max….. AND if you share only “tools and strategies” in your answer, they WILL ask a follow up question about what “methods” you also used (from experience.. lol).

    Is there a secret sauce here I’m missing to answering these?!

    Reply ↓
    1. spcepickle*

      When I ask this type of question most people spend lots of time “setting the stage”. So with your question above they will tell me about the team, explain the project, go into detail about what they had done so far. To me as the interviewer this is not super important, because I care about you not the project. So when you’re very limited on time just answer the question, no background. So – when completing large projects I use this scheduling software or keep track of things in excel with dates. I communicate through weekly meetings and formal letters. In the future I would incorporate a slack channel in my communications. Done. It will feel odd because it is not the way we are trained to story tell.
      Also focus on what you do – tell me your unique system for tracking, not what the project does a whole.

      Reply ↓
    2. Super Duper Anon*

      Since you have done this kind of interview once now, you know how they are going to phrase questions and how long you have to answer them, so think of what they asked, and maybe some other common interview questions, and practice and time your answers! Do this over and over again, refining them down so they fit within the timeline and until you feel comfortable with the answer. Then you will feel less off guard and can at least get the base question out in the timeframe, even if there is follow-up.

      Reply ↓
      1. cubone*

        This is such good advice, and normally I do write down every question in an interview…. but there’s were so overwhelming and I felt such a time pressure that my jot notes from the interview are basically worthless, and I remember absolutely nothing :( the question I used here wasn’t one they actually asked, but more an example of the style. Each question had a preface, followed by a minimum of 3 questions within in.

        Last time I did practice “common interview questions” but it didn’t really end up feeling helpful? I don’t usually aim to practice a verbatim response, but every question was so complex that all the STAR examples I had prepped felt insufficient, even if they were focused on the same ‘topic’. Like, I prepped an example dealing with a conflict, and they did ask a conflict resolution question but it included parts like: what is your approach to conflict, what was a conflict you experienced and how did it impact the company, and what did you do and what tools did you use and why and how did you communicate about it to your boss, etc etc.

        I think my challenge is more that I don’t know HOW to prep answers that I can actually practice until I feel confident because every answer/example I practiced for ending up only addressing maybe 1/3 of the question, and I had no time to think before speaking on how to expand it.

        Reply ↓
    3. Wilbur*

      That sounds bizarre, I’ve been on both sides of behavioral interviews but I don’t think there’s ever been more than 6 or 7 questions. My company is looking for the STAR format (Situation/Task, Action, Result) and you can really cut down on the follow up questions if you make sure your answers clearly align with that.

      In the past, I’ve looked at the work that I’ve done in the past few years and selected 4-5 projects. From there, I’ve looked at those projects to make sure they cover the kinds of questions they ask (complex problems, something urgent, issue with a coworker/boss/customer, etc.) At that point I cue my playlist and practice talking through the projects until I’m confident I can clearly hit every part of the STAR format. Someone on this website had mentioned they use AI to generate interview question they can answer, which sounds like a neat use of the tech. Since you have a good idea of the specifics of what they’re looking for, maybe you can have voice to text transcribe your answers and then you can review each part to make sure you’re answering the questions clearly.

      Reply ↓
      1. cubone*

        Haha, I can’t remember what week I posted it, but there was 11 or 12 question. And each one had a minimum of 3 actual questions within it. I genuinely wonder what it looked like for anyone who actually got through all of them.

        I always prep and use STAR but it felt … insufficient in this format? Like if I had a great example of ‘managing multiple tasks’ to share, I needed to also make sure the A&R portion was addressing the tools AND methods AND strategies AND communication AND then still get to results AND reflection. I feel like this sounds a bit pouty and defensive, but I generally get great interview feedback and feel very confident using STAR and it just felt like it didn’t fit what they wanted at all.

        Reply ↓
    4. Sangamo Girl*

      To prepare, I set up a spreadsheet with “big bucket” themes related to the job: project management, communication, organization, etc. I then fill my best examples for each of the buckets. I use this spreadsheet to practice, practice, practice. Not so much that my answers sound pat, but enough so that the examples I prepare come to mind first.

      Then I don’t repeat myself, forget important points/examples, or waste valuable time.

      Reply ↓
      1. cubone*

        Ohhhh I do the exact same thing, but in a document – I wonder if a spreadsheet format would help my brain a little more!

        Reply ↓
        1. Sangamo Girl*

          When I help interns/students to do this, I encourage them to keep a master document and add to it as they add experience. Then they have everything at their fingertips.

          Reply ↓
          1. cubone*

            Yes, I have one of those!

            I hope this doesn’t sound unappreciative, but it’s interesting to me that all the responses I got are very much stuff I have been already doing for a long time, and feel quite well-versed in (master list, STAR stories, practicing out loud, voice to text)…… and felt like they didn’t really help at all in this interview.

            Reply ↓
  17. Applesauced*

    I am participating in a Middle School career day set up ike speed dating, one on one (or a small group – I’m not sure) with students for a few minutes at a time.

    I’ve never done a career day – any tips? What should I prep?

    Reply ↓
    1. Tiny Clay Insects*

      I think be prepared for anything from them being super chatty to them being totally silent. If they’re chatty with tons of questions, that’s easy (though there questions may or may not be relevant… I gave a talk to abunch of high school freshmen recently and one asked me my favorite type of cheese). But if they’re super quiet, you could think of things to ask them, or just be prepared to talk without prompting, or otherwise not be fazed by silence.

      Reply ↓
    2. Caution: Scars at Work*

      I just did a speed dating type event for a college program. It was fun! I would be prepared to lead the conversation since they might not have enough experience to even know what to ask! Hopefully they will have some guidance beforehand. It’s such a short time there’s not a huge chance to talk. I would think about some talking points about your current role – what do you do now and how did you get there, what you studied, what kind of skills help make you successful. Have fun!

      Reply ↓
    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Prep your elevator speech but aim it younger. What’s your job title, what does a day in your job look like, did you need a college degree for your job, what subjects in elementary school (english, math, reading, science, art, music, gym) would mean they might be interested in your job area (like ask their favorite subject, if it’s science they might like science job, if they hate math they probably dont want to be an accountant), do you get to do field work or are you in an office, that type of thing.

      Reply ↓
    4. Chercher*

      Questions that they have to engage with too, like ‘what do you think the coolest part of my job would be’ and then you answer with whatever it is, ‘what do you think I love/dislike most about it’, ‘tell me what you already know about teapot wrangling’ etc etc.

      Reply ↓
    5. E*

      They will all ask how much you make, sometimes in weird ways (I’ve never thought about calculating per second salary) Bring props, photos, etc to help demonstrate the job. It’s surprisingly hard to describe what you to a group of kids. Middle school kids do not hold back, they will ask the weirdest stuff.

      Reply ↓
    6. spcepickle*

      Bring something the kids can play with. Last time I did one I brought a sandbox and little props the allowed us to build all the different layers of a roadway. I found that something interactive made it way less awkward for both me and the students and gave an easy opening to talk about what I do.

      Reply ↓
    7. cubone*

      I used to organize these kinds of event for youth and they can be so much fun, but hard to anticipate! I’ve had deathly awkward silences and nonstop animated chatter.

      My tips would be:
      -L someone else said, prep an elevator pitch aimed at the age of your audience. Eg. think less about the way you would describe your job to an adult, and pare it down more to the “who what when where why”. Or, what is the challenge your job solves in the world/community/business?

      -Think about the required skills/education/training needed to get where you are, and typical entry level career paths into your industry. This factual info is more applicable to older middle schoolers, but worth having on hand as it’s VERY useful to them.

      -Try to define terms or ideas in plainer language. Eg. “networking is important” is NOT helpful to youth. “Find people who do the job you’re interested in and ask them questions so that you actually know what that job looks like day to day” is helpful.

      -Have some strengths-based questions to ask them ready (what subjects do you like? Are there any activities, hobbies, or classes that you just love doing?). If they are shy/silent, DON’T ask “what questions do you have for me”, but say something like: “would it be helpful if I described the education/skills I needed to learn to get to this job? Would it be helpful for you to hear how I decided what job I was interested in?” If you feel confident, you could ask something bold like: what is the one thing you’re most nervous about when it comes to careers?

      -Be mindful of the privileges you had that got you where you are. You don’t have to apologize for it, but acknowledging that career decisions are impacted by the resources and support available to us is powerful (or: don’t tell kids they should go to an Ivy “no matter the cost”, like one person I regret inviting).

      -Lastly and maybe most important: think about your job in the context of your “career journey”! The #1 positive thing I heard consistently from students was how helpful these chats were in disproving career myths. Big teen myths are: you need to pick one career for the rest of your life; if you haven’t picked it by 18, you’re screwed; education should lead directly to 1 specific job; you’ll know exactly what you want to do by the end of college and never change your mind, etc. Anything you share that provides examples that disproves these ideas is INCREDIBLY valuable.

      If it helps, most career learning objectives for middle schoolers (should) basically come down to 2 things: 1) starting to learn and understand the kinds of careers that exist, and 2) starting to learn and understand their own strengths, interests, and skills. Most get a TON of school and family pressure to be already “picking a career path” at this age, which is not the developmentally appropriate task at that age.

      Reply ↓
      1. AFac*

        When I run these, I provide some basic questions on slips of paper. Students who don’t have questions can pull one out of a cup and ask it. I find that while the expert can certainly just monologue without a prompt question, having the student ask the question even off a piece of paper often breaks the ice for more back and forth interaction.

        Reply ↓
    8. Iusemymiddlename*

      As someone who works with middle schoolers, with the current crop, emphasizing soft skills would be helpful! No matter what the career, they are expected to show up on time, work hard while they are at work, meet deadlines, etc. Many of them have yet to suffer real consequences as the result of choices. Encourage them to try different things, and to be curious about the world.

      Reply ↓
    9. Mid*

      If you can have any props related to your job, that’s always cool! Especially if kids can touch/hold the prop.

      I don’t know what kind of work you do, so of course that might not be possible (I work in the legal field, a prop for my job would be a spreadsheet and an overflowing inbox, so not really possible.) But things like a model of a building project, rock/soil samples, small hand tools, pictures of cool job sites, etc. Anything that you use for your job that most kids likely don’t see every day could be a prop!

      Reply ↓
    10. Mesquito*

      This depends on a lot on your career, but school-age career day presentations that are memorable all these decades later all focused on very practical aspects of the job that were applicable in multiple situations – what is a union job, how do job boards work, what does freelance mean, what is a commission.

      Reply ↓
  18. Why Today Of All Days*

    How to you deal with a coworker in a team of two who just can’t remember things and somehow expects me to remind them of things. For example, meeting locations (noted in the meeting – we use Outlook), where people’s offices are (we are in a single story building with about 120 people), forgotten keys to their office (security violation), literally what i just said…… I’m losing my mind!

    Reply ↓
    1. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Can you politely refer them to useful pieces of information? “It was in the Outlook invite/on the building map/message from the boss” and then don’t say any more until they take action to find the information for themselves.

      Reply ↓
    2. Emperor Kuzco*

      I’m the type of person who likes to be helpful, so this has been difficult for me, but at some point you just say “I don’t know.” and let them figure it out.

      Where’s this person’s office? “I don’t know.”
      What time is the meeting? “Off the top of my head, no clue.”
      I forgot my keys, what do I do? “Not sure — ask our supervisor.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I usually say that I can’t remember, not that I don’t know. Then I can direct them to the invite. “Oh, when is the mtg? I don’t recall, can you look at the calendar and let me know when you find it?” If you do this often enough you’ll train your CW to look up the info first before asking you. Although if this keeps happening even after doing this for a couple of weeks, you could try naming the pattern. “Cecil, I’ve noticed you often ask me questions about things that are easily found in Outlook (or wherever). The thing is, I don’t usually know the answers to these questions either and it takes me away from the task I’m doing to try to answer your question. While I’m happy to answer some questions if they’re more obscure, I’d really appreciate it if you could try to answer straightforward questions like this on your own so that I can focus on my TPS reports. Thank you!”

        Reply ↓
    3. Bubbles*

      They may expect you to remind them, but that doesn’t mean you need to. Just deflect and go about your own business. It’s not your job to babysit them, and hopefully they’ll get the drift.

      Reply ↓
    4. Zona the Great*

      Honestly, you say exactly what you just said to us. “It’s in the meeting invite”, “we are all on the same floor. I’m sure you’ll find them”, “No, that’s a security violation”.

      Reply ↓
      1. you can't fire me, I'm retiring*

        Haha, maybe write up index cards with the answers to the most common questions. Show them the card.

        Or make a sheet of answers, answers to one question/page. Cut into slips (easily a dozen or more), stick in envelopes. Hand over appropriate slip when question is asked.

        If they’re asking you over email, have an FAQ email template for them, with most common questions and answers. Paste that baby into your response. If you’re feeling helpful, highlight the pertinent question/answer before sending.

        I’m retiring soon, getting snarky…

        Reply ↓
    5. anonmousie*

      I had this coworker until I went on extended leave, she didn’t get along with my temp replacement, she got a more demanding job in the same org, didn’t actually do well at more demanding and then quit.

      My strategies at the time were:

      1. refer back to where the information was, holding her hand a bit
      2. tell her I was busy right now and try and look it all up herself
      3. direct her to our boss
      4. said I wasn’t sure and asked her to research it or ask our boss.

      I eventually told our boss this was impeding on my job in terms of time and also it wasn’t the best for clients, because she would also refer clients to other people in our organization instead of answering the questions herself. She didn’t seem very interested in learning some of the key aspects of the job. It was very frustrating. I’d clue your manager in if this is taking up a lot of your time.

      Reply ↓
    6. Ellis Bell*

      As someone with terrible executive function and memory, I’ve had to build my own strategies and references for this stuff; I tell you now that it doesn’t help her at all, for you to bail her out. She’s hoping to learn your way of doing things, but I really doubt your strategies (which is probably just being able to remember stuff) the same as the way she needs to do things. I think you should give yourself carte blanche to just shrug and say you don’t know, and that will do a lot to make her lean on her own resourcefulness. For the sake of your own good humour, I’d also just treat her asking as someone who’s thinking out loud rather than helpless SOS’s. If you want (and only if you want) you can phrase things in a sort of “well, how did you prepare for this moment” way. So, instead of saying “It’s on Outlook” say “Where do you usually note down/look up locations?” or “how do you usually keep track of keys?” People have many different ways of keeping tabs on things without relying on something as flighty as (some people’s) memory. A memory is pretty optional for me at this point, but ironically good strategies really shore up your memory!

      Reply ↓
    7. DJ*

      Coworker needs to come up with their own strategies ie have a folder/file with office maps, staff directories, key documents etc. As others suggest point them towards the appropriate resource.
      Has your manager noticed this? The manager is the one who needs to discuss this and work with the person on this!

      Reply ↓
    8. Blondesense*

      I’d give a little thought as to why she’s doing this.
      If she honestly can’t recall the information, or she’s so unorganized, the solution is above your pay grade and I’d recommend stop covering for her.
      If she comes to you because you are the easy answer, stop being information central. (Maybe you trained her and she’s just used to coming to you?)
      It’s also possible she knows the answer, but is coming to you for the social interaction. To chat.
      All scenarios involve pushing back, but the nuances might affect how you choose to handle her.

      Reply ↓
  19. Nervous Fed*

    Hey AAM crew!
    I’m hoping to tap into this amazing brain trust for some guidance. I’m a current Fed, and as you all know the past few months have been trying to say the least. After much agonizing, I’ve decided to seek employment elsewhere. I’ve truly been working my dream job, but so it goes. Job hunting in these uncertain times is admittedly scary, so I was wondering if anyone knows of resources that might be helpful, like companies looking to hire Feds ( I’m currently signed up for Civic Match). Or if you’re willing to connect personally, I’d love to do so! For a little background, I’m in CT (but work remotely) and have been serving in a Human Resources capacity. While I’d love to stay in that field, I’m open to other opportunities. Thank you!

    Reply ↓
    1. Anon for this reply*

      Consider looking at the big (and medium) federal contractors. They may appreciate your experience with federal rules, etc. I know the one I work at is looking to hire certain types of Feds (but due to potential for conflict-of-interest or appearance thereof, I am not going to name my company and I’m going Anon for This)

      Reply ↓
  20. Anne Elliot*

    I’m looking for a simple, classic white short-sleeve women’s blouse to wear in a business / business casual setting. When I google, I find some blouses that fit the description but cost like $200 and require dry cleaning, and then a bunch of cheaper things that are styled creatively. I don’t want a creative style! I want something super boring to put under a blazer / wear with a skirt suit when it’s too hot for long sleeves. Any recommendations?

    Reply ↓
        1. PokemonGoToThePolls*

          Absolutely Talbot’s. I love that they have varied sizes, too, like petites and even plus petite. Plus it’s very very easy to find their things second hand, and the quality overall is great.

          Reply ↓
      2. voluptuousfire*

        Second this. I wanted a few short-sleeved black sweaters for a job and couldn’t find anything reasonably priced. Ended up finding the perfect sweater on Lands End’s website and got 3 of them for $17 apiece on sale. They wash well and iron up nice.

        Reply ↓
      3. IHaveKittens*

        I was just coming to suggest Lands End. Also The Vermont Country Store carries a lot of basic staples like this one. You might find what you are looking for there.

        Reply ↓
      4. SophieChotek*

        Agree with Land’s End
        Also agree with Talbot’s
        Eddie Bauer has had some in the past; often as “travel” as they are supposdly wrinkle-free but one was a very classic white blouse cut

        Costco/Sam’s Club is very hit or miss and you have to be there the week they had them, but I’ve gotten some nice classic cut blouses in basic solids (white, pale blue, pin-stripe0 in cotton/linen/wrinkle-free type in past years

        Reply ↓
        1. Jshaden*

          I will also suggest Universal Standard for an expansive size range, and for those of us who are busty, their button downs have snaps to stop gaps.

          Reply ↓
    2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      I may be missing nuance (my gender presentation is fairly butch and I don’t really understand the distinction between “blouse” and “shirt tailored for someone with curves”) but wouldn’t something super basic from like Banana Republic – just a basic women’s short-sleeve button-down – give you what you need?

      Reply ↓
      1. Online Shopper*

        Second BR – there is currently a piece called ‘Silky Cotton Short-Sleeve Button-Down Top’ on their website that may be what OP is looking for?

        Reply ↓
    6. Rex Libris*

      My spouse usually goes for LL Bean or Land’s End. They’re mostly reasonably priced, and all their tops are just basic styles where each one is available in 5 or 10 different colors, and almost always white.

      If you shop with Land’s End, look for a coupon code online, you can nearly always find one for 30 or 40% off.

      Reply ↓
    7. Mid*

      Uniqlo has some great staples. It depends on your build/size, some of their stuff runs small, and a lot of it is on the boxy side (which I like, but if you have a larger chest, you might not like it/it might fit weird.) But they tend to do solid basics, lots of clean lines and classic cuts. I’ve had some blouses and button downs from them that have held up for 8+ years. Most of their things are machine washable as normal, some things will specify air-dry or wash cold (linen-cotton blends usually.)

      https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/women/shirts-and-blouses/shirts-and-blouses/short-sleeve?path=%2C%2C95666%2C95705&colorCodes=COL00%2CCOL01

      Reply ↓
      2. ErinB*

        This was exactly my rec! I have the dolman sleeve (which is not an exaggerated cut, it’s hardly noticeable that it’s not a standard sleeve) blouse in several colors and love it.

        It lies nicely under a jacket but also looks good enough on its own if you want to take the jacket off.

        I machine wash mine and hang to try.

        Reply ↓
    9. Vanessa*

      If nicer jersey material is ok, kohls has a Nine West sleeveless shirt with a high neck (why is so much low cut). I love them so much I bought multiple colors. Dressier with a blazer and accessories, more casual with a sweater.

      Also Calvin Klein has a nice line of reasonably priced suit pieces. Including a basic white top.

      Reply ↓
    10. Jay (no, the other one)*

      Ann Taylor, Loft, Talbots, Garnet Hill – and ThredUp for secondhand versions once you know your size.

      Reply ↓
      1. fern*

        I was just coming here to recommend ThredUp as well :) I love their sort function so much.

        And I second the mentions of Ann Taylor, Loft, Land’s End, and Uniqlo, which are all easy to find there if you filter by brand!

        Reply ↓
    12. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Years ago, my daughter needed something like this for middle school choir. “Dressy”, short sleeved, no lace, no button up, no tees or knit material, not see through. It was SUCH a pain to find something, took me weeks and it cost me $80! For one performance!! (The other they had to wear a black top, which was easier.) She outgrew it before the next year. The next year when the demand came up again I lit into the choir teacher and told him that my kid was going to wear a plain white tee and I didn’t care that his rules said no tees or knit material. He’d better not give her or ANY kid crap for not being “fancy” enough for one concert.
      He adapted his rules. Apparently had no idea that women couldn’t buy simple white tops as easily as men bought white dress shirts. (which is what the boys were required to wear for both concerts. Only the girls needed two different concert tops)

      Reply ↓
  21. tired designer*

    Hi! I’ve been wanting to ask this question for a while. Recently my boss told me that she doesn’t feel my email style is “friendly” enough. I’ll note that I’m mid-career (have worked in nonprofits for 15 years), while she is much newer (6 years in nonprofits).

    I don’t think my tone in emails is unfriendly, although I do try to be direct and to the point, because we all get way too many emails and don’t need to read a novel every time. In pressing her further what she seems to want is more “chatty”, which is completely . So, real life example:

    A contact that I’ve never met emails me asking for information they need for a report. My response was: “Hi, [Name], [boss] is getting these totals together and will get them back to you ASAP, by the end of the week! Thanks, [Me].”

    The example she gave as to how I should be responding:
    “Hi, [Name], I’m [Me], the new [job title] at [company]. Hope you are staying warm with all this cold weather we are having! I look forward to meeting you in person at some point. [Boss] told me you have a cute dog; I am a dog lover as well! We are currently deep in [task] but will have the numbers to you by the end of the week. Warm regards, [Me].”

    This is nuts, right? I have never seen anyone email like this in a professional environment. She’s quieted down on this front but it’s still nagging at the back of my mind when I send a short, to-the-point email.

    Reply ↓
    3. SophieChotek*

      I agree with you but sounds like new boss prefers something very different; sound more like (annoying) networking emails

      Reply ↓
    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      If you’re new in your role and haven’t met your contact before, a brief intro of “Hi so-and so, I’m the new project manager at ABC Corp” is reasonable. But other than that, your email is fine. The rest of what your boss suggested is excessive, and I’m someone who has no problem with fluff/filler on principle. I include it in emails to people I interact with often and with whom I have a good relationship, in moderation.

      Reply ↓
      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        That’s not fluff – that’s part of having a relationship with someone.

        I am a woman, and I hate when people who don’t know me add extra information like that to emails. I assume the person was asking for a data report, not a weather report.

        Forced friendliness always makes me suspicious of a person’s motives.

        Reply ↓
    5. Lady Danbury*

      Your boss’ answer would drive me crazy if I was the sender or the recipient. Your approach is definitely better if you’re not getting any further pushback from her. If you were, you would have to evaluate whether this is a hill that you want to die on (I would).

      Reply ↓
    6. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      Yes, this is nuts. I would also find this mildly annoying as the recipient.

      Reply ↓
      1. Elitist Semicolon*

        It would make me actively avoid meeting with the sender in person because I’d be convinced they’d be even worse with extraneous detail in person.

        Reply ↓
    7. MsM*

      Yeah, no. I think I see her reasoning: she wants you to be able to develop a relationship with this contact that goes beyond the transactional. But secondhand chit-chat about their dog when they just want the numbers is going to come across as weird and annoying. If she insists, maybe you can meet in the middle with the line about the weather and/or looking forward to getting to know them, but I think your approach is fine.

      Reply ↓
    8. roz was here*

      I kind of get where she’s coming from, but that’s excessive. Your email sounded just fine to me. Certainly a lot warmer than a lot of the blunt emails I get from faculty. I’d rather have a short and sweet email than skim through pleasantries before getting to the actual answer I need.

      If she insists on sending emails this way, maybe you could compromise the format a little. Answer the question like you normally would, and then maybe the small talk at the end. “We will get them back to you ASAP, by the end of the week. Hope you’re staying warm with all the cold weather! Thanks, [Me]”

      Reply ↓
    10. LizW*

      I’m sorry…What? If she insists, how about the happy medium below? (mine would be the one line status update format after the initial introduction)

      “Hi, [Name], I’m [Me], the new [job title] at [company].

      We are currently deep in [task] but will have the numbers to you by the end of the week.

      I look forward to meeting you in person at some point.
      Warm regards, [Me].”

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah, I’d try to budge 10% to meet her, but not go Full Chatty if that’s not your personality/style.

        Reply ↓
      2. tired designer*

        I definitely include the “I’m the new [job title]” line if it’s someone with whom I anticipate having a closer future relationship—like a board member or partner. My personal opinion is that it’s not necessary when it’s someone who’s just looking for brief reporting information or an answer to a quick question–though I could be wrong.

        A further problem is that I also wouldn’t really consider myself “new” anymore (been here almost a year), but it feels weird to say, “Hi, I’m the [job title] at [company]” when that information is clearly visible in my email signature.

        Reply ↓
        1. Spencer Hastings*

          Yeah, in those cases I like to introduce myself in relation to the project itself. I send a lot of emails to people I don’t know that start like “Dear Alice, I’m a member of the audit team from Smith & Johnson…” or “Dear Bob, I’m working with Patti Partner on your tax return this year…”

          Reply ↓
      3. Saturday*

        Yeah, the quick introduction and the note about the project you’re doing are good and friendly and I think an improvement on the original.

        Even a quick reference to unusually cold weather would be okay as part of the sign-off, but I wouldn’t do it on top of the other stuff – that would be too much.

        The dog conversation? No, way too much, and too weird. If I were the recipient, I’d be thinking are you guys seriously talking about my dog? It’s also annoying because it pressures the recipient to reference dogs in the reply, which, no.

        Reply ↓
    11. Dido*

      Your boss’s example is insane and I would find it quite strange if I was on the receiving end of it. that said, I always say “thanks for reaching out, it’s great to connect/e-meet you!” before answering the question when someone emails me for the first time. If they came up to you to ask you the question in person, you’d say something along those lines too

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah and pro-tip you can include a warm sign-off in your email template (I always at least say, “Thanks, Sloan” so I don’t forget to say thanks, but you could go warmer if it would make your boss feel better). But note, don’t forget to edit it if you ever have to write a frosty email though, or it comes across really weird :P

        Reply ↓
    12. cmdrspacebabe*

      This is bananas, yes. Personally I don’t even know how to respond to that much friendliness – the best I can manage is usually “Thanks, same to you! :)”
      Your emails certainly aren’t unfriendly – they look a lot like mine, and I’ve never gotten that feedback; people seem to like mine because they’re very clear and easy to read. I’ll sometimes add an “I hope you’re well!” at the front, and if I’m ending a conversation, I’ll usually sign off with “Hope you have a nice day/week/whatever”, but that’s the extent of my jazzing-up.

      Reply ↓
    13. Percy Weasley*

      If you’ve given an accurate example of what your boss wants, it’s nuts. One sentence of pleasantries is perfect. More than that feels like you’re trying to hard and it makes it difficult for the reader to find the information they actually want.

      Reply ↓
      2. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, I have some coworkers who will do ONE sentence of that, like “Hope you’re staying dry!” but even that is unnecessary! (And my nonprofit job is very relationship-oriented)

        Reply ↓
    14. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Absolutely agreed, although if you get into a conversation with the person later, I for one will always want to see pictures of your dog/cat/baby.

      Reply ↓
    15. Charlotte Lucas*

      I had a coworker who would write a book in an email, a group chat, etc. It… annoyed people, and she ended up getting coached about it. Which solved the problem for a few months. I found myself being especially terse in any response I had.

      I think people would have been a bit more accepting if she hadn’t been generally a well-meaning PITA with only one writing style: verbose. She was put on a project workgroup, assigned to write an outline for a topic, and came up with a 9-page document that had outline formatting but was definitely not an outline.

      When she left for another job, mine was not the only sigh of relief.

      Reply ↓
    16. WestsideStory*

      She’s overdoing it and it would come off as weird. A compromising style would be to open with a warm phrasing, and close with a cheery sign-off.

      The one I prefer (for folks I dont’ actually know well) is along the lines of,

      “I hope this finds you well, ….” or “I hope this finds you well and enjoying the warmer weather,…” then launch into the topic at hand.

      Ending with “Best regards,” “Warm regards,” “Thanks much, ” etc.

      Reply ↓
    17. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Yes, nuts. Every variety of nuts.

      Even if you were trying to build rapport for long-term sales, you do that bonding in person or over the phone, not crammed into a single email.

      That being said, I would suggest you maybe do a little more – especially since you say you’ve never had contact with this person before. (If this was somebody you’d already had a whole bunch of emails with, your message would have been just fine).

      “Hi, [Name], thanks for getting in touch with us. I’ve talked to [boss] about this, and we are getting these totals together and should have them ready by the end of the week. I’ll email them to you as soon as they are ready. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me. Thanks, [Me].”

      Reply ↓
    18. Seashell*

      I don’t think what she wrote was horrible, but chatty is not my email style either. Maybe go with one extraneous thing (like looking forward to meeting them OR weather OR dog) and something else that is work-appropriate like, “If you need anything else, please let me know!”

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        Not horrible as an occasional thing, but having to wade through the chuff to find the actual answer would get very tiresome very quickly.

        Reply ↓
    19. Rex Libris*

      Yep, nuts. At most I usually go with “Hi [Name] Hope everything is going well at XCorp. then just launch into the actual email.

      Reply ↓
    20. Jaydee*

      First…they reached out to you but you’re supposed to respond by introducing yourself? I can see a quick intro if you’re new and you’re reaching out to someone (or if you’re reaching out to someone who is new and might not know who you are). But otherwise it’s kind of weird.

      Second…there’s nothing wrong with a little friendly filler/small talk sometimes. But pick ONE at most per email conversation. Not the weather plus wanting to meet plus the dog. Just one.

      Third…make sure the small talk fits the tone of the email. If someone is emailing you because you’re late getting them the quarterly banana delivery numbers, and they seem upset about the delay, don’t ask them about their dog or talk about the weather! Apologize, explain the delay if that’s useful context for them to have, and get them the info they need as quickly as possible.

      Reply ↓
    22. Head Sheep Counter*

      She’s your boss so that puts you in a pickle. I like some of the compromises folks have suggested but as your boss she can dictate this (assuming a rigid hierarchy).

      I’d approach it as, happy to work with you on this, but can we compromise so that it is more naturally in your voice. As hers and only hers after years of communicating your way would actually make me concerned for you and draw attention negatively.

      Reply ↓
    23. Hyaline*

      What. No. Absolutely not.

      The only thing that MAYBE you could glean here would be that if you are actually a totally new contact, introducing yourself or acknowledging that this is your first time being in contact (“Glad to meet you and I’m looking forward to working on the Squirrel Files with you”) is smart and imparts a human element. But….not like she did it. Don’t tell me you’re a dog lover in an email about spreadsheets, wtf.

      Reply ↓
    25. Zona the Great*

      Nope. In professional environments, we shouldn’t need to lubricate our interactions with social niceties. If I received an email like this, the response back would be brusque in order to recalibrate the communication from a social one to a professional one.

      “Thanks for the update” would be all the response such a saccharine-sweet message (as proposed by boss) would get.

      Reply ↓
    26. anonmousie*

      Her example is wild, but I do find your email a little terse. My own style would be something along the lines of “Hi, I’m Anon, the new Cheese Specialist at Cheeze Corp. Thanks for reaching out. My manager Mousie Might is putting together the totals and will get them back to you ASAP. Have a nice day, Anon”.

      No need to be excessively chatty, but fine to add a few niceties in there, but still keep the email short.

      Reply ↓
    28. RagingADHD*

      Forced intimacy / over familiarity is not friendliness, it’s tone deaf and obnoxious.

      Introducing yourself with your title is good for a new contact. The rest is so over the top for someone you don’t already have rapport with, that it’s off putting.

      Your boss is cringe.

      Reply ↓
    29. Coverage Associate*

      My job has offices in California and London. We did a training on US v British emails, and it was so eye opening! They used extreme examples, but the US email was 3 lines while the UK email was a whole page/screen. The UK email didn’t have anything personal, though. It would have added more like “I understand that you have been working on X with boss. We look forward to resolving Y. We are currently working on Z, but hope to have them to you soon. If there’s anything that we can help with in the meantime, please let us know.”

      Although those sentences are too short compared to the example we got. It basically turned everything I have learned since grade school about being simple and direct on its head.

      But the UK email might have come across as more polite or attentive, but not really what Americans call friendly, because the longer sentences and more specialized vocabulary made it more formal. (Specialized vocabulary: “quantum” instead of “amount,” “correspondence” instead of “letter,” and some industry terms when more general terms would be perfectly clear.)

      Anyway, I don’t know if adding more work related context while keeping the syntax plain will satisfy your boss.

      Reply ↓
    31. But not the Hippopatamus*

      If I got the reply your boss was suggesting I would think you are difficult to work with and look to work around you. I’m fine up to, “at [company]”. After that, it’s too friendly for a cold contact (I hope you are staying warm is FINE if it’s somebody you email regularly and there’s a -50 windchill). The meeting you part is boundary crossing and the dog comment is mildly stalker-ish. As a woman, if I got that my creep-out sense would go off, regardless of whether it was a man or woman who sent it. Warm regards is fine (maybe you can keep that part?)

      Also, the number of topic switches in that paragraph would make my 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade teachers whip out red pens and break a sweat marking it up. My later teachers would just give me a bad grade.

      Reply ↓
    32. Aggretsuko*

      Oh, I got in trouble for being too blunt and to the point in my emails too. But that said, nobody told me to write about the weather and dogs.

      Reply ↓
    33. Chauncy Gardener*

      JFC. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. Do what she says as you look for a new job ASAP!!
      This is totally f–d

      Reply ↓
    34. Educator*

      Not every piece of feedback a boss gives you needs to be taken to heart. I think you can politely ignore this because it is sexist, obnoxious, inefficient, and undermines your professional voice. I would certainly throw in a little chat when emailing your boss directly, but you are emailing like pretty much everyone I encounter in my nonprofit role. Friendly and to the point. If your boss ever mentions it again, I would just say something like “I think different people have different communication styles, and that is ok! I always make it a point to greet people by name and thank them.” But if she has quieted down, I wonder if someone else asked her to cut it out. I sure would have if she were my direct report.

      Reply ↓
  22. Anon Remote Worker*

    Just thinking out loud to the AAM peanut gallery. The golden age of remote work really seems to be coming to an end. My employer (large global firm) just announced remote workers will not be eligible for promotion. There might be exceptions, but obtaining an exception would likely be difficult. There are several senior leaders in my division hired over the past few years who are remote. My division has always been remote friendly, long before being acquired by a very bureaucratic parent company. Disappointing as I am fully remote and was gunning for a promotion. I’ve been casually looking for awhile, but overall I’m in a good situation so I can be patient for the right opportunity. Plus the job market will likely be going into the crapper. But now I know that the growth door is likely closed and no I longer have a carrot to chase. Less motivation to go the extra mile.

    I read about other companies instituting the same policy and not surprised my employer is doing the same and I’m not entirely surprised about the policy change where I work. Probably just another attempt to get people to leave without having to pay severance. Employees had a taste of remote work, many liked it, but it’s an employers’ job market again so they’re calling the shots.

    I would be fine with going into an office, but there aren’t many opportunities in my field where I live. Maybe it’s time to take the plunge and do my own thing which I’ve always wanted to do. Risky, but possibly doable in my case. One door closes, another opens.

    Reply ↓
        1. Anon Remote Worker*

          That, or when the job market swings back into workers’ favor, employers will have to accommodate. Seems like smaller, more nimble firms that don’t have entrenched real estate obligations nor received tax breaks from municipalities are offering more flexibility. And as a result, those firms get the pick of high quality candidates.

          It probably is legal :( Many companies have pulled the rug out from under remote workers in one way or another over the past few years.

          Reply ↓
      1. Magpie*

        It’s definitely legal. It’s no different than saying that someone working in a regional office would have to relocate to corporate headquarters to take a specific job. Work location isn’t a protected class. I do think companies who are preventing remote workers from being promoted are being short sighted because in the long run, they’ll lose a lot of their best workers who have other options.

        Reply ↓
    3. Trawna*

      Policies like this, about remote work or otherwise, always make me assume that the company is looking for a little voluntary attrition to lighten the payroll.

      I suggest going for that promotion while also promoting yourself by finding a new firm that sees the value in not back-sliding culturally.

      Reply ↓
    4. M2*

      My uncle worked for a tech firm for decades, worked remote and was told this years ago. They went to a certain level and was told unless they moved to HQ they would not be promoted. They traveled to HQ 1x a month but they realized it was more important for them to work remote then move their family across the country in order to become C-suite or SVP.

      He retired pre-Covid, so this is definitely a thing and I think it is better for a company to let you know where they stand.

      Reply ↓
      1. Anon Remote Worker*

        My spouse and I love where we live even though it is not the place to be for most professional fields. I have no interest to move near my employer’s HQ in one of the top five most expensive regions in the US for the sake of a promotion. Certainly a bummer that I missed the boat on being able to grow further, but I was promoted twice in the good old days while being remote. I’m with your uncle: lifestyle > title and a huge pay check, but I was not ready to stay stagnant at my current level. Lifestyle still wins out, though.

        Ce la vie! But with feds being unfairly fired and other layoffs inevitably coming, this is far from the biggest problem to deal with job-wise. Gotta count them blessings.

        Reply ↓
    5. Richard Hershberger*

      I have been saying for some years now that some jobs really need to be done in-office, some jobs it makes no real difference, and some jobs need some in-office but work just fine as hybrid. Any employer that insists on full in-office for jobs that work just fine remotely or hybrid instantly puts itself at a recruiting disadvantage. As commercial leases expire, there will be a further disadvantage of renting office space for magical reasons (as contrasted with the current sunk-cost fallacy of using the space because they are paying for it). Over the long term, this will work itself out.

      Reply ↓
  23. The first day of the rest of my life*

    I quit my horribly toxic job this week!!!!! I don’t have anything else lined up right now, which is a little scary (although financially I will be fine for quite a while), but I REALLY need a break. I burned out a while ago and have been running on empty for maybe years?

    Folks who have recovered from burnout, what do you recommend to help during my time off? I have lined up a therapist and a former colleague who is senior to me, and has switched to a different industry, set me up with his mentor to do some career counseling. Is there anything else I should be thinking about, besides taking it easy?

    Reply ↓
    1. Hatch*

      Take up a new hobby! Or, if you have hobbies you haven’t had time for, get back into those as much as you can.

      For me, spending as much time as possible outdoors is always a huge mood boost (and helps with productivity because it helps me rein in the chatter running through my mind). But researching a new hobby and dedicating time to be creative (especially in a way that is totally different from what I do professionally) is an enormous help. It reminds me that there are things about me other than work and gets me thinking/working on something that actually brings some excitement to my mind.

      I know everyone is different, of course, but I find that I need some complete downtime in trying to move past burnout. Then, after that, I can really start to throw myself in to a hobby, etc. and associate being busy with something positive.

      Reply ↓
      1. The first day of the rest of my life*

        Oh that’s a great idea, thank you!! I haven’t had time for hobbies in so long, or anything creative. I will definitely figure something out on this front!

        Reply ↓
    2. Too Long Til Retirement*

      If I were in your position, I would take a full month to do things that I always want to do but can’t because I am working.

      Examples: Matinee movie or other shows, grocery shopping at 9 am on a Wednesday, a long afternoon walk, meet a friend for lunch, use an entire weekday for household chores, go to a museum on a weekday, go boutique shopping at stores that are only open during the week(YMMV with your budget), do a workout at 10 am, cook complex meals on a weekday, try out a hobby, etc.

      My goal would be to make it so that the weekend is completely free because all of the must-do things like laundry and house cleaning and errands are done during the week. I would make it so that you have 3 days in a row where you can do whatever you want. The only downside of that is that it will be a rough transition to a normal 5 day work week if you have to go back to that.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tinamedte*

        Yes, I love this! Staying in bed just a little longer on a Monday morning when everyone else has to go to work can be super satisfying. And go shopping/to a museum/popular outdoor spot when no one else is out and everything is much calmer.

        Reply ↓
      2. The first day of the rest of my life*

        That’s a great idea, thank you! To be honest I don’t even know what the possibilities are in my area during business hours, so I need to look into it!

        Reply ↓
    3. Tinamedte*

      Yay for quitting, well done!

      Whatever fills your cup, strive to do more of that daily/dailyish.

      If you can’t really think of anything you like to do, because the burnout (and perhaps an accompanying depression?) kind of makes everything hard to enjoy, then maybe do the opposite of what burnt you out. E.g. your job was incredibly stressful -> sleep a lot, move slowly, listen to spa music. Or your job was isolating and boring you to tears -> go out dancing, throw a dinner party, invite best friends over. Or expectations were through the roof and coworkers/clients were rude and demanding -> do things you excel at to enjoy being in charge and being good at enjoyable stuff, go to exceedingly friendly environments like, I don’t know, spas, libraries, yoga classes and your best friends living room :-)

      Whatever you choose to do, good luck and I hope you feel better soon.

      Reply ↓
    4. Rex Libris*

      I read somewhere that about two weeks is the minimum downtime to recover from burnout, so give yourself permission to just take it easy for two weeks, and not think about the last job, the next job, etc.

      Reply ↓
      1. The first day of the rest of my life*

        Thank you! I timed my notice period so that I go on a long awaited vacation a few days later, and then I’m giving myself a whole month to just chill!

        Reply ↓
    5. Cookie Monster*

      I like cooking so I would pull out my cookbooks and finally make all the recipes I’ve want to make but couldn’t.

      Also, I would schedule a 90-minute massage and maybe a facial.

      Reply ↓
    6. Always Tired*

      The trifecta of exercise, hobbies, and learning.

      You need to get the sun on your face and move your body. Walks, hikes, gardening, whatever floats your boat.

      Take up a hobby that make things and stimulate your brain. Woodcarving, knitting, sculpting, whatever. Something you can gift or show people and say “look, I made this with my hands.”

      Go to the museum. Stare at the art or the bones or the bad taxidermy. Read the informational signage. Audit a class. Attend a lecture. Give your brain a taste of new that piques your curiosity.

      For me, the burn out was a depression built out of a combination of feeling useless and stuck at the same time. So my recovery was about remembering how much I like to learn and that I CAN do things and learn things, thank you very much. Basically I gave myself the adult version of a supportive elementary school classroom.

      Reply ↓
    7. The teapots are on fire*

      Go out and play. Walk I. The park, go to a store just to look around, go the library and just browse, do frivolous free things.

      Reply ↓
    8. Glazed Donut*

      Everyone else has solid advice! I was in your position about two years ago. Within 10 days, my apple watch alerted me that my resting heart rate had dropped by about 10 points. I was sleeping peacefully every night and getting sunshine daily!
      Do some things that can help you get in touch with who you are (or want to be) outside of work life. Now’s the time to reset on many fronts. For me, I visited a ton of local museums, tried some local restaurants I hadn’t been able to visit, spent a ton of time in my yard/garden, and took a small trip one state over. I tried to be money-conscious, so no wild vacations, but still loved getting to know myself outside of my profession. I think doing this type of stuff is also helpful when it comes time to interview and find a place that will be a good fit for YOU (not you-in-toxic-job).

      Reply ↓
      1. The first day of the rest of my life*

        Thank you!! I have bombed my last two interviews, I think because I just cannot show up as a good version of me at work right now. Hopefully a rest break helps! How did you frame leaving/taking a break when you were interviewing again?

        Reply ↓
        2. Always Tired*

          I said “I was fortunate enough to be in a position to take a short break and find the right opportunity for my next role.” ie: I did it because I could afford to.

          Reply ↓
        3. Glazed Donut*

          No one straight up asked me about it! I was definitely more paranoid than appropriate, and sometimes I brought it up to get ahead of it (and in attempt to say I wasn’t fired) but no one asked.
          If it was a natural spot in an interview, I might have said something like “I enjoyed working at X but decided to take a break and step back in at the end of Y project” or something like that. For the most part, at least where I was interviewing, people didn’t really care – likely because I came off as competent, sane, and confident overall. ENJOY the break!! I wish we could all take reset breaks every 5 or so years. It was such a great opportunity for me to reflect on who I am outside of my work (as someone who defined herself by her job for 15 years), and has helped set me up for a better work-life balance in my current job.

          Reply ↓
    10. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      Give yourself a schedule, but a realllllly easy one. Like, leave the house by 10am to go get coffee somewhere. Otherwise it can be too easy to just sink into the couch. If you can build walking into that coffee, so much the better (so, walk to the cafe, or drive to nearby but walk the last 2 blocks).

      Reply ↓
    11. Sailor Orbitar*

      Lots of great ideas here! Something else that really helped me when I was recovering from burnout was standing dates to hangout with people I enjoyed spending time with (like getting pizza every Friday with the same group of friends). While I was burning out, I felt like I never had time to spend with friends or family, so getting that back in the mix was key. Making them reoccurring was important because once I escaped I did not have the brainpower to make decisions repeatedly.

      I also wanted to let you know that, at least for me, there were two levels of recovery. It took me about two weeks to stop having work-related nightmares and suddenly jolting awake feeling panicked (and it was so nice to wake up well-rested and relaxed after that!). Then it took me four to five months before I actually started legitimately getting excited about things (new job possibilities, planning fantasy dream trips with my significant other, etc). I hope your recovery will be much faster, but if not, know that you’re not alone!

      Reply ↓
      1. The first day of the rest of my life*

        Thank you so much! I appreciate your insight about the 2 stages too. I am having SUCH a hard time thinking about the future, making plans, or getting excited about anything. I will definitely not try to rush it!

        Reply ↓
    12. Lit Luvvah*

      Congrats!!! I’ve been there, myself, and I know the beautiful feeling.

      For me, taking a daytrip in the middle of a normal workday was heavenly. Go somewhere you’e been meaning to visit, buy yourself a cheap lunch, and rejoice in being completely free on a Tuesday. Have fun!!

      Reply ↓
  24. Katie Porter's Whiteboard*

    I’m in a rough spot with a manager who recently leveled some serious and apparently long-held accusations toward my ‘behavior’ but didn’t provide any examples as data points so the accusations feel very subjective at this point. I’ve done a lot of reflection to see where I could be at fault because, despite me often soliciting feedback, my manager has never raised issues about my performance. But based on my past performance evaluations from previous managers, feedback from peers, and situations that may have led to his outburst, I still don’t think I’ve done anything wrong. My skip level was present at the time has said they will be reaching out to HR but I’m really uneasy about what will happen as my org has a history of sweeping hierarchical issues beneath the rug. Should I also email HR with my record of events? How do I approach meetings with my manager? What can I expect from HR? What should I hope for or request from HR or my manager?

    Reply ↓
      1. Katie Porter's Whiteboard*

        I think unhappy with my behavior and demeanor would be the best way to put it. It was the sort of situation where I would have expected some clarification or examples of the behavior that was being referenced. It was along the lines of “you’re very rude” or “I don’t like your attitude” without giving any more detail.

        I really want to approach this with a good faith effort to improve if there are areas where I’m performing poorly but I’ve only received praise, informal and formal, for my attitude and ability to work well with others so I’m really at a loss.

        Reply ↓
        2. Ariana*

          This is just asking for one of those passive aggressive apologies, “I’m so sorry you are unhappy with my attitude.” or “I’m sorry you feel I was rude.”

          Reply ↓
    2. Orange m&m*

      Be very careful & wary when approaching HR. Do remember that HR isn’t there to help or support YOU. They’re just paid by, and answer to the company. Be prepared for them to document a scenario against you to cover their company and all their behinds.

      Reply ↓
    3. Educator*

      I think a tone of polite confusion is the way to go here. If you have not done anything wrong, just keep kindly pushing for specifics. “Oh, if my behavior has ever been a problem, I would really want to fix that. Can you tell me specifically what behavior is problematic?” And with HR, “I’d really like to document this in the most specific terms possible. Can you clarify what behavior Boss is referring to? I always try to be positive and professional in the workplace, so I am genuinely confused about what exactly I need to change.”

      Reply ↓
  25. Just a Pile of Oranges*

    I have had this job for five months and I’ve hated it since day three. It’s only gotten worse over time. Everything about this place is toxic. I have made some allies among the middle managers and tried to help improve things, but the reality is that unless all of the C level vanishes into thin air, nothing is going to change meaningfully. And I have made enemies in the C level already who are just making every day an exercise in biting my tongue without biting it off.

    I tentatively have an offer from a different company that’s just better in every way. If everything goes well, I could start in two weeks (just waiting to hear back about a couple things). This makes me feel as bad as staying. To leave after a short time. To leave right before an audit. To abandon the people I am employed to care about and protect. To let down my boss, who is a nice guy and generally supportive. To deal with people’s reactions.

    My anxiety-riddled brain is throwing all kind of ideas at me, from having my husband claim I died, to saying I’m leaving the country, to actually venting all of my many, many frustrations loudly and leaving in a cloud of glitter. These are all awful. I’m too scared to find good.

    How do you leave a job when you’re terrified of the response and full of guilt over wanting out?

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      Remind yourself that your staying is not going to turn this place into a good place to work, for you or for anyone else. Heck, maybe in a new place, you can find job openings that you can send to the people who work in the hellhole now, and help them escape!

      Reply ↓
    2. Lady Danbury*

      As harsh as it sounds, you’re not employed to care about and protect your team, except from a professional standpoint. This is a job, not a family. That means that you do a good job when you’re there but also act in your own interest when you decide to leave. If that leaves your team in a tough place, that’s part of business and it’s your company’s responsibility to solve it. You’ve only been there 5 months and have already made enemies in the c suite. This is not a good environment for you personally or professionally and your nice, supportive boss might not be able to save you if they decided it’s time for you to go.

      I would recommend working through this with a therapist because your anxiety is so much bigger than this change.

      Reply ↓
      1. Just a Pile of Oranges*

        Well, very technically I am employed to protect and care about the staff. Not to like, a familial degree, but my job is to constantly look for ways to improve the workplace in a way that best serves their mental and physical health. I’ve been advocating for them constantly since I got here and even in just 5 months have made a few strides towards making things better. Of course, this is on a small scale. I hit the C-level wall as soon as I try anything more significant.

        My next appointment with my therapist is next month. It’s hard to see her very often because her schedule fills up weeks in advance.

        Reply ↓
        1. Lady Danbury*

          That’s why I added “except from a professional standpoint.” Of course part of your role is to advocate for your team, but it’s not to set yourself on fire to keep them warm, which is exactly what your anxiety/guilt is telling you to do (professionally speaking). The reality is that the c suite has limited how much you can advocate for them. Could someone else who has stronger relationships with them be more effective at advocating for your team? I don’t know. But the reality of your relationship with the c suite isn’t good for you or them. Don’t think of it as abandoning them, think of it as creating an opportunity for someone else to build allies within the c suite to advocate for them.

          Reply ↓
    3. MsM*

      You’ve hated this job since day 3, and it just keeps getting worse. Your boss and the employees who also don’t deserve the terribleness are not going to be helped by you sticking around as you just become more and more miserable and burnt out. Maybe you’ll even be in a position to help them get out as well in your new role if they want that. It’s okay to just decide you tried your best, it’s not a good fit, and it’s time to go even if the timing isn’t perfect.

      Reply ↓
    4. Elsewise*

      Recognize what your job really is: an exchange. It’s easy to say “they give me money and then I care about and protect the company,” but that’s not it. They give you money, and benefits, everything you need to do your job, and a comfortable working environment, and you give them your best work. If you weren’t doing your job, they would fire you. They aren’t giving you a good working environment, they’re not giving you what you need to do their job, so you can fire them as your employer (ie quit) with no guilt.

      I can also say, I was in a very similar situation. Three days before I started, I realized I was making a mistake. Three days after I started I was sure. Five months later I was terrified of putting in my notice. My boss actually helped me with the guilt by being super rude when I told him I was leaving! That was two and a half years ago now, and I’m so much happier, my anxiety is finally back to baseline levels, and I’m a much better employee for being in a workplace that actually treats me well.

      Reply ↓
    5. cathy*

      The company would throw you over in a hot minute if it helped their bottom line. Don’t stay out of misplaced loyalty. You gotta look out for yourself!

      Reply ↓
    6. Bitte Meddler*

      I have had the same fear of a negative response from a toxic workplace when putting in notice after a not-long time of working there.

      I felt stressed and second-guessed myself right up until I started at the new job and was hit with the usual firehose of new information, at which point I promptly forgot all about the old job and any lingering anxiety.

      Your coworkers and your boss are also free agents and can choose to move to greener pastures.

      Fingers crossed you get the new job. Jump with a clear conscience. You’ve tried to help your current company but they aren’t interested.

      Reply ↓
    7. Brevity*

      You are not the first person to have ever left this employer. You will not be the last person to leave this employer. You are one employee in a sea of former, current, and future employees. Your coworkers will live. You have valid reasons to leave.

      Keep it simple. It’s better to put your energy into *not* diving down into the weeds (yes, you CAN prevent yourself from doing this).

      Reply ↓
  26. Omelas Employee*

    I am on my last day as a temp manager at an org and am applying to their open full time positions. My supervisor really wants to keep me in the org and is talking to other departments to give me a great recommendation. I applied to a Specialist position in the Activities dept. even though I have been managing for the past 3 years because there were no other manager roles posted. I like this org a lot and believe in their mission. I heard from my supervisor that the Activities department might actually be hiring for a manager role in the near future.

    How do I express interest in this potential position that might open up in the future with the Activities hiring manager? I don’t want to completely dismiss this specialist role because I would be good at it, but I really would prefer a management position to grow my long term skills and job titles.

    Reply ↓
    1. Lady Danbury*

      I would think carefully about whether you’d prefer any role in this org or the management role in particular. Expressing your interest in the management role may pull you out of the running for the specialist role, especially since they may already have doubts about you moving backwards. Employers tend to want to hire people for roles who are interested in doing those specific roles, not just viewing them as a placeholder for the role that they really want.

      Reply ↓
    2. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Talk about how much you want to put in some time as a specialist to round out your skill set and improve your overall organizational knowledge while serving the [people this department serves]. Don’t downplay your management experience, but don’t make a big point of it either — let THEM be the ones to connect the dots and realize that you might be a promotable candidate.

      Reply ↓
  27. Chercher*

    I’m in two minds about whether to go the second interview for a role and would appreciate some input! The role is a newish role in the company, amalgamating bits and pieces that other employees have been carrying up to now. It straddles two distinct areas of expertise, teapot painting and teapot exporting. I come from a cup export background with a top level understanding of how teapots would be painted, but I don’t have the skills or experience to paint one myself. When they invited me to the first interview I asked if the role was aimed more at a painter who wanted to advance into the export side, and they said no, they were ideally looking for an export person with an appreciation of teapots. Great for me!

    First interview went well but the second interview requires me to prepare a presentation on a scenario focused on a very specific aspect of teapot painting that I know virtually nothing about (they would know it’s a little outside my wheelhouse in terms of current expertise). It’s the kind of information you can’t really look up on the internet (I’ve tried) and I don’t know anyone with the requisite skills that I could ask to guide me through what to include. My options are to put together something kind of winging it in terms of the technical content (there will be a Q&A for me to field on the presentation after) or just withdraw from the recruitment process now. I don’t want to waste my time and theirs and I certainly don’t want to be made a fool of so to speak by cobbling together a piece of work on something it’s obvious I don’t really know about. I asked for some additional context from them to prepare and they’ve said what’s in the brief they gave me is all I need. What would you do? (In terms of if I want the job or not it is interesting to me and I’ve been looking a while, but I also think it’ll be a tough role in the first year or two).

    Reply ↓
    1. Cyndi*

      When I interviewed for my current job I was also given a sample task to complete that my now-boss knew was out of my wheelhouse, because he specifically wanted to see how I would come at a task that was new to me. Is it possible they’re after something similar here and your unfamiliarity is the point?

      Reply ↓
      1. Chercher*

        It did cross my mind but I don’t think that’s their intention here, I think they need someone who has this kind of knowledge and maybe they think somehow I do (?!) when really I don’t.

        Reply ↓
    2. WellRed*

      I’m leaning toward recommending you withdraw. It’s a newish role that it sounds like they don’t know what they want. I’d also worry how it’s structured. Does it report to one department or more? Will you have a clear line if reporting or be pulled in multiple directions? And I worry they may want you to spend more time on the technical stuff you don’t know than you would prefer.

      Reply ↓
      1. Chercher*

        I’m always a little hesitant with ‘newly created’ roles for the reasons you mention. I got the impression that they *think* they know what they’re looking for/how things will play out but really it’s more fluid. The reporting line is clear but so many elements of it aren’t.

        Reply ↓
    3. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      If they’re not looking for technical expertise in painting, this may be more about assessing your presentation skills and the actual substance of the presentation may not be all that important. But you could always ask, instead of fully withdrawing! If you’re already at the second round there’s definitely no harm in sending the hiring manager a question like, “the specifics of this presentation aren’t really in my wheelhouse, are you just looking for some placeholder content to get a sense of how I approach presentations like this? Or are you going to be assessing me on the substance – in which case, I should be honest that I probably can’t deliver on what you’re looking for?”

      Reply ↓
      1. WestsideStory*

        That would be a good question to ask! Before you withdraw. Also find out how complex a presentation are they expecting? 2-3 powerpoint slides? Anything more extensive would be a red flag.

        Reply ↓
  28. LAM*

    Information professionals, tell me about changes you have made to make information easier to find. Especially small changes that make the difference regardless of the system. Or tools that are not associated with a specific document management system (we don’t have one and probably won’t get one for a few years due to things out if my control).

    Reply ↓
    1. WestsideStory*

      As someone who worked with a lot of non-electronic databases in the past, all I can suggest is to alphabetize or calendarize all the material, making sure that there is consistency in naming materials or files. For example, always “Smith, Jane” rather than “Jane Smith.” or “Production Report May 17, 2024, Production Report May 24,” etc.

      It is normally possible to file documents this way in a computer, as long as the file names are consistent.

      Alphabetizing the key data in an excel spread sheet is a logical second step. There is a lot of inputting because you don’t just have the titles of the documents, the other fields can be the attributes you would normally search for in cross-referencing. This makes it easier to search by attribute, for example, all documents for a specific client, or product, or country of use.

      By way of example, one of my earliest data management assignments was to create a subsidiary rights database for a very large publishing company that literally had two rooms of file cabinets stuffed with paper rights contracts. I had to train interns to pull out the relevant data before scanning the paper contracts (which were then discarded). Relevant fields were things like copyright owner, contact info, royalty payment splits per contract, countries already sold or media already sold, and a few more. As you can imagine, accuracy is important because that’s how writers and copyright holders get paid.
      This was done on FilemakerPro but Excel works just as well. In later years I have counseled at least smaller publishers to keep the printed contracts – sometimes it’s just easier for people to find the relevant document if it’s in a drawer alphabetized by author name.

      This is long but I hope it helps.

      Reply ↓
      1. LAM*

        We do have a file plan and naming protocol, though humans are involved and we are talking about thousands of electronic files associated with one project. And we have several thousand projects. Individually renaming and categorizing is not feasible even if that’s all I and an army of interns did. AI tools are not there yet and the records get created faster than ever.

        Another issue is if the folder names are too descriptive, file names get shortened with a ~ or I get errors when I move of copy files. I have a collection management system, but will have to develop a tag set

        Reply ↓
    2. Mid*

      Consistent file naming and sorting! Nothing is more annoying than trying to find a file and it could be called “[Date][Project][Location]” or “[Project][Date]” or “[Location][Date]” or “[Project]v1”. And then not knowing if files for Project A are in the [Location] folder or the [Project A] folder or Steve’s personal folder. People will likely be mad for a while, and that’s fine, but everyone has to follow the naming rules. And then have someone who spot checks to make sure things are actually being named and stored correctly.

      Reply ↓
      1. LAM*

        Any advice on doing the spot checks? Usually by the time I’m involved there are thousands of files for a project and I focus on the big things (wedding duplicates and renaming files). We try to encourage people to remind their teammates (1 vs 100) and trainings, but the legacy issues have been brewing for 30 years, never mind how much is being generated today.

        Reply ↓
        1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

          Just my two cents:

          One way to do spot checks is when a file is needed, check and fix it (and other files in that specific subfolder) to the correct name/structure. This way, the team is bringing the actively used files back into the proper structure.

          The files that haven’t been touched in years tend to be less important and deep-diving for them will almost always be a project unto itself.

          Reply ↓
    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      When naming file versions, use at least two digits, so the files can be sorted earliest to latest version, e.g.,

      Document v01
      Document v02
      Document v03
      …
      Document v10

      Otherwise, v10 will be right next to v1.

      Also, avoid descriptive naming of versions (e.g., “Final version v3”). Just add the next number and you’ll know it’s the latest because it’s the highest number.

      Reply ↓
  29. earplugs lover*

    Be honest with me, y’all. Is it really even worth it to ask loud people to moderate their voices? In my anecdotal experience it’s hardwired into people, they always creep back up to being loud again, and then if I keep asking I’m a nag.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Some people have a naturally loud setting and truly don’t seem to be able to control it for long, but I think it’s fine to keep asking if it’s a distraction for you (is this phone voice, or chit-chat? – meaning, work-related or not). Even better would be to suggest a structural change like can you please take your webinars in the conference room, or not chat around my cube, rather than just depending on their self-control.

      Reply ↓
      1. earplugs lover*

        It’s phone voice–the guys sharing the office next door to mine both have pretty sonorous voices and spend a lot of time on calls. People on the other end of MY calls have commented on being able to hear them a couple of times. These are separate offices rented to separate businesses, so they aren’t my actual coworkers.

        Reply ↓
        1. Sloanicota*

          Oohh yeah, that’s … pretty tough. I might have to ask the building for soundproofing, rearrange my cube position, or invest in white noise (or something) on that one, because they don’t really have much incentive to change it up for your benefit.

          Reply ↓
        2. Reba*

          Ask your workplace for some acoustic panels? I feel like that will be more fruitful than trying to get your work neighbors to change.
          You can get some that are covered with attractive canvas or even printed art on canvas (meaning it doesn’t have to be ugly egg crate foam).

          Reply ↓
      2. Teacher Lady*

        This. I promise I am not trying to be loud to annoy people, but my default setting is just louder than is typical. (I have literally had this confirmed by an audiologist who worked with one of my students who had hearing loss; she was doing an in-service for my team and took out a chart to show the decibel ranges our student could hear with/without amplification and she goes, “Student will struggle to hear Ms. A because her voice is typically here, but Ms. Teacher Lady is typically HERE,” and it was not at all the same part of the chart.)

        Reply ↓
    2. A*

      So one complicated part of this conversation will always be that loud is subjective. Also it depends on frequency, pitch, accent, etc.

      Something that will probably get me in hot water: it also depends on how much you like the speaker. If somebody already annoys you then chances are good you will think they are loud, too.

      I think you will be a lot happier if you stop asking them to change and do everything on your end that you can do to mitigate the loud-to-you people.

      Reply ↓
    3. Anon for This*

      Ask in the moment – it will help for a bit, but my son has a naturally loud voice and he really can’t always moderate it. (When he was in school we were often referred to have his hearing tested – they figured he was loud because he couldn’t hear himself. Sigh.) We have a hand signal (lowering motion) when he is getting loud, but not sure you could do that with a co-worker.

      Reply ↓
    4. spcepickle*

      I get loud and don’t notice, if people either just made the hand gesture (palm flat towards the ground hand pushing downward) or tell me hey you are really loud I will reset my volume. It might creep up again, but just try the hand gesture as a reminder. I am a women in my 40s and I have never been offended when someone reminds me I am loud, they are correct.

      Reply ↓
      1. sb51*

        +1, also a loud woman in my 40s. I can’t percieve that I’m being louder than appropriate for the situation; it just doesn’t register to me at all. If I were to try to actually tell what volume I’m speaking at and whether it matches the other person, it’d take so much brainpower that I wouldn’t understand the conversation any more. (Back when I did some choir singing, I could in fact nicely blend my voice to the right volume — but I didn’t need to understand words, just sing something I had memorized and focus on my tone.)

        It is occasionally a sign that I can’t hear the other person because of background/other issues (my hearing is fine, my audio processing is crap), and sometimes in that case I can catch that I’m doing it and try to improve the situation, but only if those are things that can be fixed.

        Also a lot of people haven’t learned to separate different parts of doing a “phone voice” or other specific voice — enunciating clearly, speaking a little louder, using a particular pitch range, emotional affect etc — they just have a few different combinations of all of those things to choose from, so they could do their loud-enunciated-friendly-phone voice or their quiet-casual-snarky-coworker chat voice but not something in between.

        Reply ↓
    5. cathy*

      We had a loud co-worker in my old job- she knew she was loud so that helped. We’d just say “indoor voice Tammy” and that would help for a little while.

      Reply ↓
    6. RagingADHD*

      Well, that’s one of those questions like “Is it worth it to tidy my desk? It will get papers on it again.”

      Yes. Very few things in life can be permanently changed with a single, low-effort action. Life requires maintenance, and people do not have perception or habit transplants. They may be quite willing to accommodate you, but that doesn’t mean they will permanently remain attuned to your perception of loud.

      Reply ↓
    7. Honor Harrington*

      An ENT once told me the shape of my head would have made me a perfect opera singer, because it just projects so perfectly. It is a constant effort to keep my voice down, and in a meeting where I have to focus intently, I get louder. I do my best, but it is literally a physical part of my body.

      That said, you can ask the loud person to move to a less populated area, or to sit under a fan where the fan would cover some of it. If your office has white noise, you can ask them to turn it up. Knowing I’m loud, I always try to position myself on the edge of people facing away so that my voice will carry away from them.

      Reply ↓
    8. cubone*

      Something that helped me was downloading a decibel meter app and checking it (privately!) when someone’s loudness was irritating me (also, measure yourself while speaking and other ambient environments to get baselines). It gave me a more factual analysis of how loud they actually were and now I have a better sense of what my preferred range is.

      To be clear: I would NEVER tell anyone to quiet down because I measured their decibels or tell anyone I use this app, lol (I can just imagine an AAM letter: “my colleague downloaded an app to measure my volume?!”). It would be very off-putting and passive aggressive to most people, so keep it private.

      But on an individual level, it helped me manage my frustrations by being able to say to myself “yup, that colleague’s phone voice is literally 15-20 decibels higher than their regular speaking voice”, or “My neighbour seems so loud but the decibel meter is actually showing the same # as when I watch a loud TV show, so it’s probably more that I’m annoyed by my neighbour in general.”

      Reply ↓
  30. Tradd*

    Just wanted to extend support to my fellow international trade folks. Tough time right now. Tariff whiplash with all the back and forth, notifying customers of changes, then notifying them again when there are additional changes. Tons of shipments from China have been cancelled. Stuff currently on the water is exempt from the huge increase. The stress we are under is incredible. Some customers are better to deal with than others. I live for weekends, even though I often have to take a bit of work home. The tariff stuff is pushing regular duties to the side.

    Hang in there!

    Reply ↓
    2. Busy Middle Manager*

      I was wondering if you’d show up! No clue how you handle it. This week in particular was so so bad. I have more of a “first world problem” view of it trying to trade/invest but have been spending most days staring at the news and charts and not doing anything due to the risk. This stuff is horrible for your mental health.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tradd*

        I’m also the only one at the small freight forwarder who can keep it all straight. I’ve told the sales people to not even attempt to talk about it with customers since they’re making it worse when they try! I told them to send the customers to me. I will often run customers through it on the phone as it’s much easier and allows for initial back and forth which cuts down on a ton of follow up emails. They are very appreciative.

        Reply ↓
        1. Busy Middle Manager*

          I hate this week. There was “pause” news but stuff wasn’t actually paused. Then trying to trade it, Apple stock skyrocketed because the word “pause” got out there, but the tariffs on the countries they manufacturer in (Vietnam, China) weren’t canceled. So much confusion, and for no real reason. In the trading world, everyone is arguing about whether market manipulation and/or insider trading occurred this week with all of the flip flopping.

          My brain would freeze if I were you. I wouldn’t even know what to say to people. Just charge a random amount, and if you get audited, pull up all the tweets?

          Reply ↓
    3. Tio*

      Oh god. It’s been a nightmare here. I was just pulling up to work after lunch when my phone started going absolutely wild as all the directors, group directors, and C Suite suddenly slid into my DMs and we had a whole afternoon of emergency meetings. One purchasing division in particular purchases more than 3/4ths of their product from China and it was devastating. We’re watching for bond saturation and trying to project but now everything we did is thrown out the window and we have to redo. It’s absolute chaos.

      Reply ↓
  31. HailRobonia*

    Any advice on how to reduce “no shows” for Zoom meetings? I use a scheduling app for potential clients to automatically book time on my calendar for 15-minute meetings. It’s set up so that not only does the form send a confirmation, it sends two reminders (one 24 hours before, the other 8 hours).

    I’d say about 25% of these turn out to be no-shows, despite the reminders. I want to add language about this to my meeting description, does this sound ok?:

    “Please honor your commitment by attending or rescheduling if needed. No-shows impact everyone’s time.”

    Reply ↓
    3. It's Me. Hi.*

      Are you selling/pitching something? If so, I think a quarter of no-shows is probably par for the course?

      Reply ↓
    4. Charlotte Lucas*

      Are you giving the option to add to a calendar automatically? That is a really helpful function.

      But I agree that if you’re selling something, you will just get no-shows.

      Reply ↓
    5. I can’t spell annonymouse*

      I always reach out directly to the attendee 15-30 min before the session, saying that I’m looking forward to the meeting—and meeting with them. This helps “put a face” to the event (as opposed to a calendar reminder ). Then, after a few minutes I have the meeting event call them directly (in teams it’s called “add X to the meeting.” Since I started doing that I’ve had very few no shows

      Reply ↓
    6. HailRobonia*

      Addendum/clarification: I run a non-degree program at a university, and these meetings are with prospective applicants.

      Reply ↓
      1. Pocket Mouse*

        I agree with the advice to send a reminder closer to the start time, but I’d suggest 2 hours, since not everyone checks their email every hour.

        Instead of your script, I’d lean toward making it really clear how to cancel or reschedule within the reminders, then reiterate something like “looking forward to speaking with you soon”.

        Reply ↓
        1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

          This. Applicants need a reminder closer to their meeting time. Plus everything in Pocket Mouse’s second paragraph.

          Reply ↓
      2. cubone*

        I worked in a similar role and honestly…. there is good advice here, but I also think you definitely need to expect a certain % of no-shows.

        The reality is just that these meetings may not be as important to them as they are to you. The people who would read & pay attention to the meeting description language you proposed are the people who will already cancel. The people who no-show won’t read it, or won’t be bothered by it. I hope this doesn’t come across rude, but that note would be to appease your frustrations and feel like you’re doing something, but I would highly doubt it will have a meaningful impact. You can still include something like “please cancel or reschedule by clicking here if you can no longer attend” (but that’s just good design anyways).

        Another thing to consider outside of reminders (which are reactive measures) are proactive measures. Is booking a meeting with you a simple click on the main page of the university’s website? Maybe put it on a different page, or have a barrier to access (eg. only send it to new registrants to your program’s newsletter, webinar attendees, etc.). If it is incredibly simple to sign up for these meetings, then people don’t feel as bad bailing on them (sorry!).

        Likely the university wants to make these meetings as frictionless as possible to encourage marketing and enrollment efforts, but friction is what will minimize the amount of no-shows. Can’t have it both ways, sadly.

        The only thing that would make a difference within your existing system is tangible consequences. eg. “please note that after 2 no-shows, your application status to our program may be in jeopardy”, but I highly doubt your institution will consider that.

        Again, in a similar role …. 25% no-shows was standard (maybe good even). If you can’t introduce any friction to signing up for the meetings, and you’ve maxed out reminders, I would consider reframing how you view these meetings and their time slots. Have less slots available per week (so your time isn’t wasted), only have the availability during very specific times, and have a backup list of very short to-do’s that you can easily pick up or put down when there is a no-show.

        Reply ↓
        1. roseyposey*

          +1. Adding language asking people to honour their commitments seems likely to have no impact whatsoever (and actually might annoy the people who do honour their commitments and show up!). The problem you’re facing is structural so if you can’t take a deposit or otherwise add friction, you’re better off figuring out how to anticipate no-shows and mentally reframe it as part of your regular job duties.

          Reply ↓
      3. Educator*

        This sounds like a really normal percentage of no-shows to me. I do have a required field in my scheduling program that asks for a phone number, and if clients don’t show up to the Zoom, I give them a voice call. But this kind of program makes it so easy to schedule a meeting that you just have to expect that people are going to ghost.

        Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        I don’t even understand how 8 hours would work. If my call is scheduled for 1pm I’m getting notified before I even wake up in the morning? Useless.

        Reply ↓
  32. Meep*

    Just want to whine for a second – nothing too deep.

    So I am in the process of looking for a new job (FINALLY!) after the hectic-ness of moving, buying a new house, and putting our old house on the market died down after being furloughed for two weeks and not being paid properly on top of it.

    I am still not properly in our system as salaried since I came back from maternity leave TWO MONTHS AGO. -insert eye roll here- And now I am learning that my sick time is not being accrued properly (should be 1 hour for every 30 hours worked and that hasn’t been put in probably either for the past two months). Le sigh.

    I know this is a start-up and this is frankly not the worse thing that happened (or the worst person in charge in my eight year tenure), but I really wish my boss would focus more on day-to-day and sustainability rather than just hyper-focusing on finding a buyer.

    Am I crazy when I think even if we found a buyer that this would be a major turn-off? Again, it is a whole lot better than it was before (before it was being held together by shoe string, bubble gum, and a lot of delusion – now we have some metalwork and solder mixed in), but if we have no customers because he neglects them and cannot do five minute switches, it is going to make it harder right?

    Oh well. I have 12 weeks to find a new job before we run out of funding so I have more important things to do.

    Reply ↓
    1. Milo*

      No advice, just startup solidarity. We have wild swings between “do everything you can to reduce costs so we can be profitable” and “oops sales sold 130% of capacity this month, spend whatever it takes to not short a customer.” Thing is, I think buyers absolutely do not care, they are going to steamroll existing systems to bring you into the fold regardless.

      It’s been a year under a new VP who was brought on to get us ready for sale and I do miss the focus on quality and innovation. But those things are expensive.

      Reply ↓
  33. Lucretia*

    I could use any tips on “resetting” at work when taking extended time off isn’t in the immediate cards. I’m either already burned out or on the razor’s edge of it, and my backlog of tasks has really built up because I struggle with getting on task and focusing during the day. I’m a team lead and have a lot of different tasks that I’m free to prioritize however I want barring a clear immediate directive to expedite, and it’s clear what’s the most urgent/what people need–I just cannot bring myself to focus and actually do it. I am not required (nor really allowed without authorization) to work overtime, but my workday’s getting stretched out just because I know I need to get more done than I did and since we’re mostly virtual I can flex a bit if I got up to take a short break or do laundry or something. Paradoxically I think my superiors are TOO nice and understanding about how spread thin I am, because if I could manufacture some urgency I could maybe get something done. I get a little bit of my most visible tasks done every day so there’s some progress on the one metric I’m really tracked on, but beyond that everyone assumes I’m just getting stuff done, because I always have and am Old Reliable Lucretia usually and I am…not.

    I know I’m struggling with a flare of anxiety/depression and my chronic illness. I’m working on that, but I’m in kind of a vicious cycle of the former impacting the feeling of overwhelm at work which then in turn increases the thing again. It just sucks because I know if I could just be reasonably on-task from 9-5 for even three days I could get almost my entire backlog under control. I did actually have several days off a few weeks ago, and I was hoping I’d be able to come back with a clearer head, but it didn’t really help. (Our sector is also very affected by current US administration chaos so we’ve had some rough organizational impacts already.)

    As I’m typing it out I’m like, the answer is probably three months of FMLA or something, but. Is there any way people have found to sort of Etch-a-Sketch shake themselves and just focus themselves back on their tasks? Every day I’m like “okay, today will be the day I wake up on time and just get x, y, and z done” and every day I do not do any of those things.

    Reply ↓
    1. It's Me. Hi.*

      This might be kinda lame, but…can you talk to a peer? Maybe not in your current org? Perhaps someone with fresh eyes might offer some interesting advice. I also find that talking out the tornado in my brain is really helpful and provides clarity in many cases. Sending you the goodest vibes.

      Reply ↓
    2. WellRed*

      You see your supervisors as TOO nice. I’d say reframe that. They are ineffective and unhelpful. Is there Anything at all you can ask to have taken off your plate? Or can you be OK with doing what you can each day and letting go of all the self inflicted mental scolding your doing? You can only do what you can do.

      Reply ↓
      1. Time Wheeler*

        I wouldn’t ask for things taken off my plate if I am already behind on deliverables that would take, per OP’s own words, three days of focused work to catch up on, especially if it would tip my boss off as to how behind I am on things that they assumed I would handle.

        The way that I’ve gotten myself back on track is, unfortunately, setting a day aside on the weekend to attack my pileup of work. May not be tenable if you’re non-exempt and would be going into overtime, but I’ve found that powering through on a non-working day is the best way.

        Reply ↓
    3. cactus*

      I’ve had some success in the “today will be the day I get x, y, and z” done when not motivated/distracted by blocking time in my calendar to work with a friend/friendly coworker. Ie let’s get together in this conference room and just work on our stuff side by side, occasionally chatting. Pair with breakfast before or lunch after.

      Reply ↓
    4. Anne Elliot*

      Have you tried body doubling? I do this with a friend who also works remotely and it helps a ton! Focusmate has a few free sessions for online body doubling with strangers. Honestly, sometimes going to a coffee shop to be around other folks – even if I don’t talk to them – helps.

      I also have found the Pomodoro method useful sometimes!

      Reply ↓
    5. Cortado*

      I’ve been dealing with this too, but am starting to feel like I *may* be getting past the low point of my slump. I think the main thing that’s helped me is spending more time in the presence of other people. The less time I spend alone, the more apparent it becomes that everyone’s struggling with something, and that we all do better when we’re not always working and living in our own little silos. I find that even just a bit of small talk and casual conversation sprinkled throughout the work day will sometimes magically lift me out of those horrible mental spirals, and give me that small confidence boost I need to actually start (and maybe even finish!!) a task. It’s not always super easy to build those opportunities into your work day, but I just try to take those opportunities when they present themselves, and not fall prey to my own tendency to isolate myself until I have some proof of productivity.

      Reply ↓
    6. Honoria Lucasta*

      I’ve really benefited from a program designed by a Harvard psychologist based around CBT principles. He has a podcast called the Optimal Work Podcast, and you can find some of their episodes on the basics that they’ve been updating recently. The key tool he uses is called a “golden hour”, where you 1) establish a perimeter [tidy desk, close unnecessary tabs, etc], then 2) you engage in some mindfulness and planning about how you will approach the next hour of work, and then 3) you set a timer for a specific amount of time to dedicate to the task you’re working on. The perimeter establishes visual clues for your brain that you’re moving into task mode, the mindfulness allows you to bring order and focus to your work, and the timer provides a deadline benefit.

      It’s not an immediate fix, but the routine of doing that even a couple times a day really does help me zero in to work mode instead of sort of frantically toggling back and forth between my to-do list and distractions and kind of working on the main thing while feeling a tightness in my chest because I know what else I’m not getting done.

      Reply ↓
    7. OneBean TwoBean*

      This won’t be enough to help with serious burnout and depression, but they are things I find helpful when I’m stuck in my chaos brain and can’t seem to get started on work.

      One – set a timer for 5 minutes and work for 5 minutes. Kind of like the pomodoro system but much, much shorter. No way could I convince my brain that I was going to work for 25+ minutes. But 5? Or even 3? Ok. Whatever time feels short enough that I will actually do it. Just getting started helps so much. And then I absolutely will take a break after that 5 minutes. A long one. But after that I will do it again and the length of time I’m willing and able to focus usually increases naturally. The key here is to start SO SMALL and only increase your productive work time when your brain wants to.

      Two – come in on a weekend to catch up. It’s way easier to focus without people around and if there’s a “once I get X done I can leave” situation I’ve set up for myself that helps with motivation.

      Reply ↓
    8. Mid*

      I’ve had this issue before/am slightly dealing with it now. I’m dealing with a flare of anxiety/depression, chronic pain, plus the usual ADHD.

      Things that have worked for me:
      1. Make a list. It will be very long and overwhelming. But make sure every single thing is out of your head and onto this list. Then, sort the list into easy, medium, and hard tasks. Then, I start each day with 2 easy tasks, and then I pick 1 medium and and 1 hard task, and give myself a deadline of noon/end of day/whatever makes sense reasonably. If I get those two tasks done, I do either more easy tasks, or I do a medium task (and give myself a small reward, like buying a fancy coffee or nice new pens) or I do a hard task (and give myself a slightly bigger reward, like takeout for dinner or new socks) (I’m apparently very food motivated). This helps me get out of the mild guilt spiral of not having the tasks all done, and makes it feel positive to get even one thing done, and once I get one thing done, I tend to be able to keep my momentum and get a lot more done. (Also hard task is a totally arbitrary designation based solely on how much I dislike it, not how difficult it actually is to do. Sorting my big scary inbox folder is a hard task, because I hate it. Editing and updating the 80 page SOP document is an easy task because I like it, even though it’s objectively more difficult of a task.) I’m very good at bribing myself with little treats, and it works far better than trying to create fake deadlines for myself, because I know they’re fake.

      2. Have an “I Give Up Day” where you don’t even try to tackle all the backlogged tasks, just do the basic easy admin stuff, like check voicemails, update addresses, whatever is easy and mindless and probably not very high priority. Have Netflix on in the background, eat snacks, etc. This is *not* not working all day, it’s just letting yourself off the hook for not being “on” for a day, being like your most slacker coworker for a day. Don’t feel guilty, just give yourself a reset day. Or the reverse, tell yourself you get tomorrow as an “I Give Up Day” if you can get X, Y, and Z done today.

      3. Strict working hours, no overtime, and try really, really hard to not to think about work off the clock. The more extra hours you work, the more tired/burnt out you get, the slower/less focused you are at work, and the spiral continues. If you get work emails on your phone, set it up so you don’t get notifications after hours. Also, not working extra hours helps create more urgency in the work, because you will absolutely not be working late. Make plans for directly after work so you can’t stay late. Fill your bucket from out of work stuff, spend time with friends and family, invest in your hobbies, do things that make you feel good outside of work hours.

      And not really a strategy for work, but be kind to yourself. It is absolutely okay to not be 100% right now. Or even 80% right now. Let yourself be 50%, and redefine that as your new 100%, for the time being. Most people aren’t okay, and aren’t at 100% right now.

      Reply ↓
      1. roseyposey*

        I also have ADHD and I love this list. I’ll also say it might be worth getting assessed if you haven’t already, because that feeling of “today will be the day!” combined with knowing what needs to be done, and yet an absolute unwillingness to do the thing was basically my presentation for a long time. I made it worse for so many years by thinking it was just something I needed to overcome with willpower. It really eased up when I got diagnosed and on a low dose of medication.

        In addition to the rewards system above, and the break day (I really think the brain needs time to just “drift” and not constantly be performing executive function!), I do two things:

        1) keep a list on my phone of everything that has worked when I’ve been in this situation in the past. It reminds me that I’ve overcome the issue before, and it’s a concrete set of actionable things I know work for me (eg music, stretch breaks, meditation etc).

        2) map our your day by time increments, and give yourself a reward for working for that time period even if the goal isn’t accomplished yet. Eg “I will spend 20min drafting that memo to the client I’ve been dreading.” It’s way easier to get started if you know you’ll be finished in 20min. Or even 5 min! I like Toggl for time tracking bc it has a pomodoro alarm that goes off at preset intervals. I usually try and start with longer intervals and decrease them over the day as my attention span peters out.

        3) do something outside of work that makes you feel capable and strong. Tidying the house, a hike, volunteering for a clean up day, doesn’t matter what it is – but something that inspires a bit of “I can do hard things” can really help buoy you up and make starting on the work to do list a bit less daunting.

        Reply ↓
    9. I didn't say banana*

      Something quite minor that really helped me, when my back log of things to write was building and building… someone said to me “the only solution is to write your way out”.

      It just helped me shift my mindset from trying ineffective strategies and wasting time on stress and worry. I have the solution, it’s something I’m able to do, and now I just need to do it. It made sitting down to write feel more productive because here I was, solving my problem.

      Reply ↓
    10. Random Academic Cog*

      Wow! Did I write this in a lucid dreaming state? You’ve just described my life for the past 6 months. Definitely not alone in this. I’m heartsick and exhausted and scattered and every night I tell myself tomorrow will be better but it rarely is. This is far from the first time I’ve gone through a downturn, but this one feels worse. I keep telling myself I just need to hang in 8 more years. Not sure I’m gonna make it.

      Reply ↓
  34. FoxInABox*

    I’m the dude who posted last week about lycanthropy and ADA coverage. I figured I’d give some context:

    One of the recurring pieces of advice on AMA when dealing with something potentially awkward (a pimple, plain dress, etc.) is to be mater-of-fact in acknowledging it and then moving on. I was discussing this with a friend and we started on a short story where the “potential awkward thing” is a coworker turning into a werewolf. The question about the ADA came out of musings around the scenario.

    Reply ↓
    1. Retired Camp Counselor*

      I’m so used to posts that reference past posts being updates, that when I first started reading this, I genuinely thought that this was going to lead into an update of some sort! N

      Reply ↓
  35. It's Me. Hi.*

    How are we working/existing in this hellscape? I have been so unproductive. I’m not a Fed but my job is adjacent to HHS funding and we’ve seen pillars of our community summarily sh*tcanned, as you all know. It feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The Titanic being the US. How’s everyone coping?

    Reply ↓
    2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Operating at like 50%-75% normal productivity. Daydreaming about quitting my job and opening a bakery/coffee shop instead (before rationalizing that this is not the economic situation to take a big risk in). It’s so hard.

      Reply ↓
    3. Banker of the Food Variety*

      I work for a food bank impacted by funding cuts. We’re scrambling to find donors to cover what we’re losing, we’re cutting unnecessary expenses as much as we can, but we know we won’t fully make up for it. Chances are, we’ll be operating in the red for a while, and we still won’t be able to fully meet the need. We’re big enough to be unlikely to have to shut down (unless we get forced to close for still having a DEI statement on our website, but that’s a whole separate issue), but a lot of our partners might have to close their doors.

      The first round of funding cuts was announced as being “no longer in line with this administration’s priorities”. Food stamps are likely going to be reduced significantly, meaning people will have less money to spend on food, and are going to be relying on food banks more. Food banks that are being funded less and less, and likely to lose even more funding going forwards. But that’s not a priority.

      I just keep reminding myself that most of us will probably get through this. And that maybe future political leaders will restore some of what’s been cut, although it’s unlikely that the next election will lead to everything being restored. This is the level of optimism that makes me the Pollyanna of my group. So we’re doing great.

      Reply ↓
      1. some dude*

        I’ve heard that immigrants are terrified to go to food banks because they are afraid ICE will be there to deport them, so maybe your demand will shrink with your resources! I love living in a country where cartoon villains are running the show!

        Reply ↓
    4. Busy Middle Manager*

      Trying to trade and I can’t trust any moves because a truthsocial post (not even a tweet) can come in any second and move the market so big, that I can make or lose a week’s worth of expenses in ten minutes, even on tiny position sizes. It’s enabling gamblers.

      My brain exploded a few times for this.

      I’m living off of savings this month for the most part, because I can’t trust these moves. It hurts when nothing happens for a day and I could’ve made money. It’s a constant whirlwind.

      One plus is that if I survive this, I will feel spoiled by normal times.

      Reply ↓
    5. thatlibrarylady*

      Not well. I feel like when I talk to family who voted for this, their attitude is, this is a necessary part of balancing the budget. When I look at news sources they follow, it’s like they are living in a different universe with very little reporting on the impact to veterans, education, medicare, etc. No wonder they think it’s fine- but when I try to bring up counterpoints, I’m making things up, or influenced by leftist media. Even when I quote things from the white house website. It’s infuriating and I don’t know how to get out of this with the trust in scientific and journalist community so eroded.

      Reply ↓
      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Not sure if this will help. There are a couple of news aggregators (Ground News; Tangle News) that focus on making bias from major news outlets transparent. Could be a place to start a conversation with people who you care about and have different views, if you all can agree to read that instead of siloes.

        Reply ↓
      2. some dude*

        It has been wild to look at Fox business news through all of this – they barely mention any of this.

        Reply ↓
    6. Professor X*

      It’s not great! Higher ed here – “professors are the enemy,” grants ripped away, students rightfully on edge, etc.

      I really like my day-to-day job, so I’m trying to enjoy it while I still have it. My uni hasn’t caved to the anti-DEI pressure, and I’m proud of that. It’ll probably make us a target quite soon, but I’ll deal with that when it comes. Not sure what else I can realistically do.

      I’m making an effort to stay connected with my community and enjoy small things outside of work too. I have no idea what’s coming, so I’m going to snuggle my pets, do fiber arts, and see local theater productions while those options are available to me.

      Reply ↓
      1. Academic Physics*

        It’s rough here. Someone I know just got doxxed so if you’re in academia I recommend locking down everything right now

        Reply ↓
    7. sb51*

      Feeling really guilty about putting my head down and continuing to be good at rearranging deck chairs, but also that continuing to get my decent paycheck at my relatively-stable job at a multinational (US based but our international sales, even with any wacky tariff shenanigans, do insulate us from some amount of market shocks) is what I need to do; with that money I can support family and friends who do not remotely have that stability.

      To keep that job I need to pretend like it’s not affecting me; to pretend, I have to compartmentalize. But then some of my friends are very upset that I’m not running around like a chicken with my head cut off like they are. I am, but I’m keeping it on the inside, because if I let it out a little, I will fall apart. (And, like, these are friends that have very good reasons for being extremely scared and angry; I am not criticizing them for their reaction. But I can’t help anyone by falling apart.)

      Reply ↓
    8. Rex Libris*

      I’m in public libraries. It’s been stressful (Google “IMLS” if you haven’t been following it.) But I try to just focus on the day I’m in, and not borrow trouble.

      Reply ↓
    9. anon atm*

      I’m, uh, using work time for organizing protests and trying to keep my trans friends afloat. And also doing my work, but slowly and my team lead is starting to get mad at me

      Reply ↓
    10. Fed for now*

      I am a fed, but in one of the agencies that hasn’t been targeted as much as others. Even so, we learned that 3x as many people opted for the second round of deferred resignations than the first scammy offer. We hear how ‘important’ we all are to our safety-critical mission, but being asked to do even more with even less (like that hasn’t been the case for years due to chronic understaffing) and take better care of taxpayer dollars. You don’t have to look far to see how millions of dollars are being wasted on prez-related sporting activities, but I might not get my once-a-year <$3k travel approved to go to an in-person working meeting because it's not 'mission critical.' But wait, didn't this administration dictate how important in-person work is? The hypocrisy, it burns.

      My own resistance is taking the form of ignoring the RTO mandate. I've gone to the office a handful of times and seen plenty of empty cubicles so I believe I'm not the only one who's just not going every day. I don't recommend it as a long term strategy and I know that I could be fired for it, but … I guess it's become my hill to die on. Until then, I'm going to do my work like a professional, under the conditions that I took the job, and hope to continue getting good stuff accomplished while I can.

      Reply ↓
    11. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

      Talking to colleagues at my institution and peer institutions (I’m in higher ed). My therapist sees a lot of people from my employer (we’re a major employer regionally) and says that a lot of people are freezing up and isolating and that when they reach out to other people, they feel less terrified.

      Reply ↓
    12. Reba*

      Our top boss has advised us, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, to spend the first 30 minutes of the day (or whenever it’s preferred) checking the news and going “holy shit,” and then getting down to our work, which he assures us is important. Our leadership in general is super understanding of our stress. We are also fed-adjacent and affected.

      Reply ↓
    13. De Minimis*

      Just trying to focus on work even with all the changes. My agency has been spared though only because we had the probationary firings rescinded at the last minute. Waiting for the other shoe to drop. Returning to the office has had its good and bad points, I have a routine that I more or less enjoy, but it’s very strange being here. I’ve worked here 5 years, but I started when everyone was WFH and just don’t feel integrated here in the office, and I’m not sure if that will ever change. I have more of a rapport with some of the folks in neighboring cubes who work for other agencies than I do most of my own team members.

      Reply ↓
    14. Bananacrackers*

      Keeping my head down and quietly doing the job for as long as I have it, then channeling the anger/fear into things like protesting/calling representatives and volunteering for local nonprofits where I feel like I’m actually helping. And putting a hard news limit on each day (keep up with major changes, but no doom scrolling).

      Reply ↓
      1. De Minimis*

        I’ve tried to limit my news intake too, with mixed results. It’s hard to escape, especially when so many my mutuals on social media seem to want talk about it so much. I did successfully quit going to the federal employee subreddit, so that’s been helpful.

        Reply ↓
      2. It's Me. Hi.*

        Thank you everyone for sharing. Unfortunately I have spiraled and am currently doing my what has beecome a weekly Friday cry. I did just close my newspaper tab though and will try to stay off my phone. Sending everyone good vibes.

        Reply ↓
        1. Potato Potato*

          Aww. That’s okay too. If you need more good vibes, google “owls in towels” – wildlife rescuers have to wrap owls in towels to weigh them, and they always look so offended by this.

          Reply ↓
      1. It's Me. Hi.*

        OBVI. I hard relate to this. ONTH – I thought about creating something of my own in like Canva that’s specifically wired to my weirdo brain. But I am also a procrastinator so…

        Reply ↓
    16. PokemonGoToThePolls*

      It’s a struggle and it’s just wild to me watching all of my other American coworkers going on like we’re not witnessing what’s going on. I’ve talked to my therapist about it at length and we can’t come up with a real solution beyond the following:

      1. Do joyful things in downtime (I take walks, read books but quit current events books, crafts, etc)
      2. Limit doomscrolling
      3. Keep in mind that you don’t really know what everybody is going through, we’re all just playing roles and doing our best.

      Of course, my job is not directly impacted by ~events~ but if the economy crashes we’re hardly safe.

      Reply ↓
    17. Teacher Lady*

      I deleted all my social media and that has been a huge help. I’m mostly getting updates on what’s going on that does/could impact my field from targeted email lists (like my union newsletter, or my state education justice action listserv), and so then I can go look up specific bills or initiatives. As a bonus, those sources often suggest a call to action (attend a meeting or action, call your Senator or Rep with this script, etc.), so it feels like the line is awareness —> action, not awareness —> despair and doomscrolling.

      Reply ↓
  36. Pyanfar*

    Enhancing collaboration/communication in Remote Work? I know this has been talked about a lot, however, I’m looking for the things that your company did that actually made it better for you in the areas of knowing your co-workers, collaborating, communicating, feeling comfortable with your team. I work for a small company that is 100% remote (and committed to staying that way). We get together twice a year in person, and sometimes 2-3 people will be in person with a client for a few days. Beyond that, we are looking for ways to help the team feel more connected, and, as we are about to hire 2-3 new people, how to get them fully integrated quickly. What are your success stories? What is still working for you?

    Reply ↓
    1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Pick up the phone a lot more than you think you need to! Seriously, email/chat/slack are not going to build relationships, and video calls exhaust everyone. Audio-only phone calls are so underappreciated as a relationship-building device. (You can totally still schedule calls using your calendar so you’re not cold-calling folks when you need to talk – just put the location as “phone.”)

      Reply ↓
      1. Pyanfar*

        Excellent suggestion! We actually are a video on by default group, but an actual phone call does work wonders!

        Reply ↓
        1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

          Yeah especially for more quick stuff/informal conversations! Video meetings have this whole layer of prep and formality to them, whereas a quick phone call can feel like catching up with a colleague. People let their guard down a bit more.

          Reply ↓
      2. WantonSeedStitch*

        I feel like video vs. phone is something that can vary from person to person, so it’s worth figuring out what everyone’s preference is on your team. I personally like video calls, because I feel like looking at a person’s face helps me have a conversation with them. I know a lot of people who HATE using the phone, who don’t mind Zoom or Slack huddles that much. Among my coworkers, a Slack huddle is like walking over to someone’s cube to chat. We tend to use a quick Slack message to ask if someone is free first instead of “cold calling” them.

        Reply ↓
        1. allathian*

          Yeah, I have some audio processing issues that mean I can only do 1:1 phone calls. Teams conference calls work much better for some reason, even with cameras off looking at the profile pic of the speaker, or if all else fails, their name in the black box, makes it much easier for me to focus. I can’t reliably tell who’s speaking otherwise unless I know the speaker really well.

          Reply ↓
    2. Trawna*

      Assign an Onboarding Buddy – an experienced coworker who the newbies can ask all the questions they might not want to pester their new manager with.

      Reply ↓
    3. Somewhere in Texas*

      In my last remote role, we had a few of us who set up time to just “work together.” In practice we’d hop on camera and do the things we’d been avoiding. We’d be on mute, but hop off if we had questions or needed a bit of advice. It was structured-casual and it was nice not to feel alone.

      Reply ↓
    4. JB*

      For new people: we assign a new hire buddy.

      This is typically someone in a DIFFERENT but adjacent department, so it allows the new hire to get to know people outside their immediate team. The new hire is not a mentor but is meant to be there for newbies regarding questions around company culture, etc. And provides a friendly face at inter-departmental mixers and so on.

      Again, this is in addition to whoever is actually providing work training for the new hire in their actual team.

      Reply ↓
    5. Mid*

      Have some intentional social time for people to meet the new hires (virtually) with a light ice breaker (something like everyone shares a single fun fact about themselves), encourage existing employees to reach out to the new hires to have a social/work chat in the first month of them being there, and if you don’t already have a social chat channel, maybe have that and use it (lightly)–not a constant barrage of chit chat, but having a place for people to share personal news (like a new dog, going to local sports game, etc) can help everyone feel more human and connected!

      Note: these are suggestions specifically because you’re at a small company that’s 100% remote, and it sounds like you haven’t had anyone new in a while, so it’s likely that everyone is fairly connected already, and being the newbie at a small company is slightly socially intimidating, especially when it’s remote.

      Reply ↓
    6. WFH?*

      If some of you live ckose together have a coffee meet up. Tavel time to and from the cafe can be paid time. When I started my current job back in late 2020 my manager did that so I could meet her and a couple of coworkers face to face. My manager would also meet up with me in a local cafe for supervision when she had an appt in my area!

      Reply ↓
    7. Educator*

      I really like having clear expectations, so I was thrilled when I joined my organization and they presented me with a document called “Team Communication” that outlined how and where to chat about particular topics, set expectations for remote meetings, told us how to use status messages, stated expected response times, clarified working hours, etc.

      I was even more thrilled when we all hopped on a call to update it together once a year, discussing what was working and what we wanted to change.

      Just saying the norms, instead of expecting people to intuit them, makes such a big difference.

      Reply ↓
  37. 360 adventures*

    My husband found that one of his coworkers was fired for criticizing his boss during a 360 review. Said coworker was the project manager for the company’s most important program, was fired with no transition plan, and had no issues related to work product. My husband has been with this company for over a decade and is an extremely frank person, so he’s understandable concerned about the changing workplace norms. Is there anything he can do? Should we assume that the information he got (from his boss) is complete? Is it, unfortunately , time to start getting ready to move on?

    Reply ↓
    1. Benihana scene stealer*

      Are you sure there isn’t more to it? Anything’s possible of course but that is absolutely disgusting and horrible

      Reply ↓
    2. pally*

      I would not put much stock in what the boss says is the reason for firing the coworker. Managers can get into a lot of trouble violating the confidentiality of an ex-employee by divulging the true reason behind their termination.

      Reply ↓
    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      Wow. Is there any way your husband can get more details on this? Not sure how he would, but it might be worth a try.

      Reply ↓
  38. Project Manager, Jr.*

    What’s a good source for project management 101 information? Preferably longer form–not just a blog!– a book or even an online course would be best!

    (Project management has always been part of my job, but I’m looking to make some process improvements, and a better background of the strategies and language would be helpful.)

    Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. Pyanfar*

      My recommendation is to search for construction project management textbooks…even if you don’t do construction projects, most of the principles hold. You don’t need the current edition — buy an edition or two older and used or borrow from a library. The other great source is the USACE (Army Corps of Engineers) — your tax dollars have paid for lots of amazing reference material on project management that should pop up via your friendly search engine!

      Reply ↓
      1. Project Manager, Jr.*

        So far my favorite ASACE source is the cat calendar, which is not project management but was a nice surprise digging through their library! Thanks!

        Reply ↓
    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Project Management Institute – pmi.org – is a great resource. Yes, they want to sell you books and certification tests, but they have a pretty good range of free resources too.

      Reply ↓
      1. Project Manager, Jr.*

        Oh, good! The problem with all the institutes is you never know which are good and trying to sell you something, and which are just trying to sell you something.

        Reply ↓
  39. Anonymous Annabelle*

    Has anyone worked in a company where 1 executive would pick a scapegoat, and they were always fired in a short amount of time? How do you protect yourself? There really isn’t a rhyme or reason for who is picked. No PIPs are used, and the executive would never tell the person they are in danger of being fired.

    We’re going on 4 people hired then fired within less than a year

    Reply ↓
    1. Balanceofthemis*

      Leave as soon as you can? I don’t want to sound blasé, but I’ve worked in that kind of environment, and there is no protecting yourself. You can try to fly under the radar in the hope he won’t realize you exist, but that won’t work forever. And, honestly, the anxiety is going to get you if you manage to stay.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bast*

        Came here to offer pretty much the same advice. Leave. It won’t change. I have also worked in that environment and “flew under the radar” until I left, but there had been other people who mostly flew under the radar until one day they didn’t, and before long management was making their life miserable. There did not have to be any rhyme or reason. While typically this type of manager targeted people who put themselves out there and were more visible, eventually their eyes would shift to someone else, and it didn’t matter how much you tried to go unnoticed or how great your performance was; we had one of the top 3 employees get canned one day because manager decided she didn’t like her anymore, and she was another one who typically flew under the radar.

        Reply ↓
    2. Meep*

      Yes. I had a boss like that who would do it to hide her own incompetence (she couldn’t get any work done because she was dealing with this problem employee and there was always a problem employee).

      Unless someone higher than them wises up, there isn’t much you can do, but leave before you get fired.

      Reply ↓
    3. Ruby Tuesday*

      Yeah, I was that scapegoat at my last company. All I can say is get out of there. It doesn’t get better until you’re out of that environment.

      Reply ↓
  40. llamanalyst*

    Low stakes question but I’m curious – how do you handle the knowledge that you won’t be able to complete every single task on your plate by the end of the workday? Not necessarily tasks related to big long-term projects, but smaller everyday tasks that you set for yourself at the start of the day but, due to factors out of your control, are still untouched by the time it hits 5pm.

    I’ve been doing Inbox Zero for years but after some recent changes to my career (i.e. went from an admin assistant to analyst position), I’m in a position where that simply isn’t possible anymore. Rationally, I know it’s not reasonable to expect that I’ll be able to answer every email that comes into my inbox by the end of the day as there will always be competing priorities like urgent deliverables suddenly cropping up and/or big long-term projects that require more attention on some days than others. Even knowing that a delay of a few days for a lot of those small tasks is okay and even expected, I’ve been struggling with letting go that it’s okay for something to be Incomplete by the end of my workday.

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!

    Reply ↓
    1. Tinamedte*

      1. I like to remind myself that I cannot let my inbox be a todo list that is completely in the hands of other people. My todo list must be something I control. That helps in my situation, but also I am in the fortunate situation of not having to reply within minutes, so I realize this is not always possible to live by 100 %.

      2. May I nudge you in the direction of Oliver Burkeman and his book Four Thousand Weeks? In case you like to read books like that.

      I hope you get many more useful suggestions from other readers.

      Reply ↓
        1. llamanalyst*

          Thank you for the rec! I just took a quick glimpse at the Wikipedia page for Four Thousand Weeks, and it sounds really interesting! Definitely going to borrow it from my library.

          Reply ↓
    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      As Tinamedte said, your inbox is not your to-do list. Unless your job is literally the electronic equivalent of opening envelopes and writing responses off the top of your head, there is more to work than just ask/reply.

      If I know around half-way through the day that some lower-priority things on my list aren’t going to happen, then I triage ruthlessly. Just lop off a whole set of things – either defer them to tomorrow or throw them to a coworker.

      Reply ↓
      1. llamanalyst*

        Yeah, the triaging is something I’m working on. I usually know by the afternoon what I’m likely to get done/what NEEDS to get done, but putting it out of mind entirely until the next day is hard.

        Reply ↓
    3. Cordelia*

      Would it be possible to aim to get it all done by the end of the week, instead of the end of the day? And block out a couple of hours at the end of Friday to clear up the last remaining things? Even then, I’m sure some things won’t get done because they are reliant on other people doing something first, but you could perhaps reframe it as “everything that is in my gift to complete by Friday” rather than “everything by the end of the day”

      Reply ↓
      1. llamanalyst*

        I’ll try that! For some reason, my Fridays have been getting busier this year compared to last year, but I like reframing my low-priority tasks as something I should I aim to get done by the end of the week instead of the day.

        Reply ↓
    4. Goldie*

      This is a really common experience in transitioning from an admin assistant to an analyst role. Part of the “promotion” is dealing with on-going projects that can’t be completed quickly. So make to do lists and put in calendar reminder so that you aren’t worried that you will forget. And then do some self-talk with yourself that you can get more comfortable with this feeling. You are being trusted because of your experience to manage projects, not just tasks. You don’t need to get everything done in one day and if you do, you probably will be rushing. Give yourself a beat to analyze things.

      Reply ↓
      1. llamanalyst*

        This is really helpful insight, thank you! You’re right, I’ve had a couple times where I got myself into a minor hiccup due to rushing. Luckily, I’m still receiving positive feedback from my boss and coworkers, but this is definitely something to remember.

        Reply ↓
    5. you can't fire me, I'm retiring*

      Have a terrible crisis/emergency in your family, one that makes you rethink just how important getting tasks done is in the big picture.

      Therapy.

      That’s what’s worked for me.

      Reply ↓
    6. SansaStark*

      Thanks to everyone saying that your inbox isn’t your To Do list bc you don’t control it. That is such a great way to frame it!!

      When I have a lot going on (or when I’m expecting a lot of things to be dropped on my desk), I’ll make a list of 2 or 3 things that are VERY important/urgent and must get done before I leave. I can add to that list if something is equally urgent, but everything else goes below that list in importance. I feel more accomplished if I can cross those few things off the list, even if there’s still 10 smaller things. Those items will just move over to tomorrow.

      Reply ↓
  41. TeaMonk*

    How are y’all working through your job big feelings? I have therapy every two weeks but with everything going on, that simply isn’t enough.

    Reply ↓
    2. Fluffy Fish*

      for me i try to schedule times to be stressed about things – i now that sounds ridiculous but bear with me. as someone with anxiety i will worry myself to death every second of the day if i allow it.

      So ive worked on scheduling it. I focus on it in therapy, but when I go to my exercise class I avoid the people talking about bad things and talk someone else about our dogs. i give myself an hour to sit and worry after work, but then i try to set that aside and do something that takes up mental space like talking a walk while listening to a podcast. i’ve stopped venting and talking about it at work – it just doesn’t make me feel better abotu anything if anything it makes me stay focused on doom and gloom and feel worse.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lady Danbury*

        This is an actual therapy technique (google worry time or worry postponement, for anyone who wants to know more). I have a family member who’s a therapist and she not only recommends it to clients but also practices it herself. Now that I’m writing this, I’m pretty sure I need to start doing it as well…

        Reply ↓
        2. Fluffy Fish*

          It absolutely is! I’ve been in therapy for decades :)

          It’s one of the things that works for my anxiety. Lots of other things don’t (mindfullness, breathing, mental imagery techniques).

          For my brain I need concrete actual actions that I can take. And it really works – your brain can only be occupied by so many thoughts at once, and when you stop feeding/rewarding the mental doom cycle, I won’t say it goes away, but it does take up less mental and emotional space.

          Reply ↓
          1. allathian*

            Mindfullness doesn’t work for me, either. The one time I tried it was the second time in my life that I had a panic attack (the first was shopping at after-Christmas sales, crowded and awful, although oddly enough I never had any issues working retail during sales).

            Tai chi works, especially if you’re as clumsy and uncoordinated as I am. There’s no room in my head for any thoughts except those related to doing the moves in the correct sequence, and that’s kinesthetic rather than verbal.

            Reply ↓
            1. Tea Monk*

              Yes this is why sometimes I do yoga because it is so difficult for me to be in a pretzel that I forget my worries. ( Im very bad at yoga)

              Reply ↓
        3. Rex Libris*

          I saw an article recently where a psychologist was talking about this. Basically, your brain reads it as “I have taken action on this thing” even when the action is just scheduling time to worry about it later, so it calms down.

          Reply ↓
    3. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

      This takes time to build but I have found that having friends in my field or adjacent to it can be really helpful with solving a specific problem at a time (text Joe to ask how he would approach a problem like xyz) because that can keep me from going bananas in between sessions.

      Reply ↓
  42. a surprising lack of alacrity*

    I am part of a global corporate law team in which we are very siloed; people have their areas of focus and work in their teams and there is little interaction outside of the leadership level between the different teams. As a result people really don’t know what people in other teams do outside of a high level (e.g. “contracts” “environmental”). We are having a summit at the end of the month and want to do an activity wherein people learn what other people do. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      This is perfect for ongoing brown-bag events (archive and share the slides for people who can’t make them).

      For the summit itself, can you do really quick case studies – 4 slides, 12 minutes? Problem, unique wrinkles, approach, results.

      Reply ↓
      1. Mid*

        I would say add one slide of generally “what does [team] do?” even though they’re all lawyers. Environmental is far broader than most people think, for example.

        Also is this summit focusing on just other lawyers, or are you looking more for all levels, like “what does a litigation paralegal do compared to a transactions paralegal” and “what does the research department do?” If it’s the latter, I strongly second the ongoing lunches idea, even better if the company can provide lunches to help incentivize attendance.

        Reply ↓
    2. Educator*

      In classrooms, we do an activity called a jigsaw to develop and share expertise. I would recommend a modified version:

      First, group everyone by department and ask them to articulate their three most important functions, the three biggest things they accomplished this year, or a case study that exemplifies their typical work. Then reassign them to new small groups with one member from each department. Every participant, representing their department, has to share the examples of their department work that they developed during the first small group with the members of their second small group. The listeners have to ask them at least three questions. At the end, the facilitator can bring everyone back together and ask them to share what surprised them, what they learned, potential areas for collaboration, etc.

      I like this better than presentations because everyone has to engage, no one is put on the spot without time to think and prepare, and people get to know each other a little better in small groups. If it works with high school students, it probably works with lawyers, right?

      Reply ↓
  43. Daniel S.*

    I have an employee who will likely be eligible for a promotion in the next review cycle. He negotiated well/aggressively when he took the job, which put him at a higher point in his salary band. These bands have slight overlap to allow for more flexibility and the company has a policy of not moving anyone to above the median of the next band when they are promoted. (This has never been a problem before, as often the bottom 25% of the band is a meaningful raise for an employee.) Fwiw, the company gives COLA raises every year and the bands all move with inflation.

    Looking at his current compensation and the median of the next band, the increase isn’t much. As far as I can see it, I have two options:

    1. Give him the max increase under the policy (and explain to him the constraints).
    2. Bring it up the chain to advocate for an exception. I have the capital to do it, but with the current economic climate, it would not be enthusiastically received and would basically use up all my capital for a while.

    I don’t want to penalize him for negotiating originally. But he joined us at a different time when salaries broadly were up, it was a job seekers’ market, and we had better financial projections. If we were hiring externally for his role today, we would not bring someone in at the salary he negotiated. If we were to lose this employee it would be very annoying, but by no means devastating.

    My question is two-fold:
    – Is there an option I’m not seeing?
    – If I were to advocate for an exception, what arguments do you think would be most persuasive?

    Reply ↓
    1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      I think you have to look at the pay independently of the person first. What would you pay an external hire with the level of skill and experience of your employee that you’re promoting, for the promoted role (not the current role)? It’s pretty reasonable to promote him below the top of the range unless he’s truly going to deliver top-of-the-range work in the new role in the first couple months, but typically folks being promoted don’t have that level of skill and experience in the new role yet.

      You can layer on retention implications once you’ve figured that out, but offering him market-level and internal-equity-oriented pay for the new job isn’t penalizing him for negotiating earlier, it’s rationalizing his salary in the context of the market and company.

      And of course he’s free to negotiate once you make the offer. If he chooses to do that, I’ve found it’s usually easier to go back to leadership/use less capital at that point to say “well he won’t take it at the salary we offered” than to proactively advocate for someone you seem lukewarm on paying more.

      Reply ↓
    2. Sloanicota*

      I would just be transparent with him, I think. You’re not obligated to use up all your personal chits on this guy when you might need them for something you feel more strongly about later. “As you know, you’re at the top of our range now, and although I’m recommending you for promotion, times are tough in the business. I’m committed to ensuring you get at least x% (can you do 10?) increase, and you should try to advocate for yourself again next year. He may start looking after this conversation, but it sounds like you’re prepared for that.

      Reply ↓
    3. Fluffy Fish*

      As a gov employee this is very very standard. Promotions are up to x percent depending on how many pay grades you are moving but you can never exceed the band. It’s part of how they ensure pay equity across the agency. Negotiation would be unthinkable.

      Would the salary he would be making be inline with industry standard or would he be underpaid for the work? Is he an absolute rockstar that would be able to go elsewhere for more money for the same work? Those would be the primary thing I’d be thinking about when weighing asking for an exception. Not his raise wont be as big and it is when others have promoted under company policy. Presumably even for others they’re not getting the same amount of raise – it’s variable based on where they where, yes? In general however I would be very very hesitant to spend all my capital especially since you’ve said it would be a “read the room” situation.

      So to answer your question I think you start with 1 and see what the employee says. If he balks I think you add in information about the company climate.

      I personally would not argue for an exception unless there’s additional issues like I said above.

      Reply ↓
    4. sb51*

      I got a big promotion in the 2009 recession, and was in this guys shoes — less because I’d negotiated and more because I’d moved between related industries, so I’d come in entry level into the new industry but they’d matched my old salary, which was above entry level. And because of the economic situation, the bands hadn’t budged in a while — they didn’t drop them when the economy tanked, but since salaries across our industry had drooped, the bands were actually running high for the market.

      My manager couldn’t show me the actual band numbers, but basically laid out how the bands calculate and how people move through them, and that it was still better for my career to get the promotion to the higher band with the small raise. (Which was true. Yes, if I’d been eligible/ready for the promotion before the downturn, that would have been the best salary progression, but if he delayed it to when the economy ramped back up, I’d be behind where I should be when the entire bands started moving up again.) He said he’d gotten me the best option he could, and we had enough trust that I believed that. And he’d been very good about other management stuff; I would prefer he spend his emotional-capital on stuff like escalating a business process problem that was disproportionally affecting my area vs trying and probably failing to get me another $2k a year.

      Though: if you can get this guy a one-time bonus with less emotional-capital cost, is that an option?

      Reply ↓
    5. Qwerty*

      If you were hiring him today for the higher position, what salary do you feel like his skills would merit? Take his current pay and past negotiating out of the equation and ensure the new rate is paying him equally for his skills/value as you would for another employee with the same skills who may not have negotiated as strongly when she started.

      Neither of your two options are good – you are giving either a max raise or above max raise for reasons that have nothing to do with performance. This is how we get gender and race pay gaps.

      If the raise ends up being very small, that means this person has been getting paid extremely well. Merely explain that his current salary of X is at the top of the salary band for his role as Senior Llama Groomer and as a new Llama Supervisor he’ll have a salary of Y. Acknowledge the raise may be less than he is expecting since he was already at the top of his band and that he’ll be eligible for a merit-based raise after Z amount of time.

      This is a known risk when getting the top salary for a job – either you may not get any raises in the future or they could be small because you’ve capped out, so he shouldn’t be terribly surprised.

      Reply ↓
  44. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

    Managers who have been through layoffs on your team – how have you gotten through the period between when you’ve made restructuring recommendations and when decisions are made (above your head) and impacted staff are informed? It’s killing me to check in with folks every week who are almost certainly going to be without a job soon in a nightmare job market. I’ve done what I can to encourage job searching but obviously can’t straight-up tell people their positions are on the list without violating my leadership responsibilities, and it’s breaking my heart.

    Reply ↓
    1. Daniel S.*

      Can you give them any short term projects/responsibilities that could be strong examples to share in upcoming interviews? If you can’t tell them to start job searching, this could at least help set them up for what they’ll need during their search later on. (I know obviously they should already have some of these examples from the prior years that they’ll use, just trying to think of something actionable you could be doing now, too.)

      Reply ↓
    2. Random Academic Cog*

      Have you bluntly told them you understand the current uncertainty and will be willing to serve as a strong reference if they choose to start searching? There will still be people who are oblivious, but you will know you’ve done what you can to support them.

      Reply ↓
  45. Internal Communications Infinity Mirror*

    My big bosses are of the mindset that hearing something once isn’t enough for it to stick. In practice this has meant that internally we receive (and are expected to share) the same messages internally via email, in meeting notes, another email, aloud during meetings, on a calendar invitation… and it is wearing on me! There’s no clear line of updates, no one place to check for the latest info (the messages are never identical, just functionally equivalent), and I have to wade through seas of mostly the same info to find the new and important stuff.

    Am I in the wrong here? Has anyone’s workplace got a good SOP for internal communications?

    Reply ↓
    1. cmdrspacebabe*

      How big is your organization? This isn’t best practice in my experience! Constant restating/duplicating takes up a lot of production time as well as overloading the recipient. Ideally they’d be using an intranet for a lot of stuff – particularly posting copies of announcements and having permanent webpages for any standard guidelines or rules they refer to often. Then they would just link back to the existing stuff whenever they think you need a reminder. If they really want to be sure people are seeing their announcements, they could also do something like a weekly newsletter round-up with whatever reminders they think are important.

      Reply ↓
        1. cmdrspacebabe*

          That’s what I figured! It sounds they don’t have a dedicated function/strategy for internal comms, so it’s being done ad-hoc without much thought for how well it’s working overall.

          If you’d asked how to fix it (assuming you’re not in a comms role yourself), I’d suggest either bothering an action-oriented manager, or you could try DIY-ing an ‘FAQ’ for yourself of all the stuff you wished was easier to find, then send it to your team as a ‘resource I’ve been compiling’ and see if you can get people interested. That may be more than you want to sign up for though lol. (sidenote: I once did this and, before I got around to sharing it with anyone, my unsuspecting boss assigned me to officially create the exact resource I had just completed. the look on his face when I casually told him I’d already done that was *chef’s kiss*)

          Reply ↓
    2. Kathenus*

      I get it, and have seen the same thing where I get an update on something from my boss, then again at a leadership group meeting, then again at an all staff meeting. While it drives me crazy because I feel like I’m wasting time in meetings hearing a lot of the same information, it helps for me to remember all the places that had poor communication. So erring on over-communication is better in comparison, if a happy medium isn’t a realistic option.

      Reply ↓
    3. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      Your big bosses are not wrong! That’s how we approach learning: you do need to hear it more than once, and ideally in different ways because people learn differently.

      That said, it doesn’t sound like they’re communicating very effectively, but please don’t blame it on that core idea.

      Reply ↓
      1. Academic Physics*

        I agree, if it is something you need to know cold. So that’s a technique I use for safety information. For something more akin to deadlines or meeting times, or processing credit card transactions, however, this would be super frustrating for me.

        Reply ↓
      2. Infinity Mirror*

        Ah, these comments are clarifying for me. I agree that reinforcement is important for learning! I think the issue for me is that as a company we’re not thinking critically about what gets amplified. It feels like adding more noise, rather than presenting consistent information multimodally or reinforcing critical information strategically. Thanks!

        Reply ↓
  46. Mid*

    Is it worth it to get my MAcc and CPA? Does accounting care about where you got your degree (like Law does, to a certain extent), or is it fine to do the cheapest online program, as long as it’s certified?
    And is it worth it to try and find a company that will help pay for my degree or at least my CPA?

    I live in the US. I have a BA in something totally unrelated to accounting, so I have to get a full degree in accounting, and it seems to make more sense to get a MA than a second BA, since the cost will be roughly the same and a MA tends to come with a slight pay increase. I currently work in an Accounting department doing Billing, so I have a fairly good understanding of what daily accounting work is like (lots of spreadsheets, not a lot of actual math, high attention to detail, etc.) I would ideally like to eventually leave my company and work in something more like auditing/forensic accounting. I know not everyone in accounting has a CPA, but it does seem like an essential for the path I’m considering. (Along with special certification for forensic accounting, but that comes later.)

    Reasons I’m considering it: I like the accounting work that I do. I’m currently in a niche role that pays fairly well but has a low ceiling, so I’m about at the top of the progression I can make in this area, and I’m not even 30. I enjoy the combination of routine/repetitive work and also solving puzzles and figuring out the weird issues that come up. I like spreadsheets. I like working with lots of data. (The other area I’m considering is data analytics, but that seems like a job bubble that’s starting to pop a little, and it seems a lot harder to find a good degree program for DA. But I’d also like to include DA work in accounting and that seems really feasible.) Accounting seems like an economically stable field, even with everything *gesture at world* and so less risky than getting a grad degree in Social Sciences (which is what my undergrad is in.) Accounting is a broad enough field that I could specialize and also change up my area of work if I get bored. It also seems to translate well internationally, so I could move back abroad if I decide to do that in the future.

    Reasons I’m hesitant: Degrees cost money and I don’t want to spend $25k+ on tuition for no payoff. I need to keep working full time because I need the income and insurance, so I’m looking at 3+ years of schooling (possibly more because my undergrad was unrelated to accounting so I’ll need to take prereq. classes for most programs.) I’m not sure I want to do an online program, because I haven’t historically done well in online classes, but I’m not sure how I can manage in-person courses while working (there are two universities near me that have MAcc programs that are meant for returning/working students but one of them doesn’t have the best academic reputation, and the other one is a private school and expensive.) Because of mental and physical health issues in undergrad, plus needing to work while in school, my undergrad GPA wasn’t amazing (I believe I graduated with a 3.2? but I’m not sure, and that’s only the GPA from my degree granting institution. If you have to look at all my college courses, the GPA is a lot lower.)

    I know some companies will help their employees get their CPA, but I think that’s typically for recent graduates. My friend had her MAcc and CPA paid for by her [very large consulting company that starts with a D] but she started working for them right out of undergrad and had a spectacular GPA. I did not. How common is it for companies to help employees pay for at least their CPA, if not their MAcc? Which companies should I look at? Is it only the really big ones?

    Reply ↓
    1. Miss Chanandler Bong*

      I got my second bachelor’s in accounting. Here are some things I have run into:

      1. No, they don’t really care where you get your degree, but do make sure you get your degree from a school that is AICPA certified as those will have the better programs. Also don’t go to a for-profit school. I got mine online from a state school and have discovered they did a very good job. State schools, even out of state, that are online tend to have very good programs but run cheaper than private.
      2. I opted for a second bachelor’s rather than an MAcc. You need a bunch of prerequisites for the MAcc, so second bachelor’s worked better. You need 150 credits for the CPA, not necessarily a master’s degree. And a lot of jobs require a bachelor’s in accounting, so this gets you in faster. I had a degree in business administration, so I needed mostly accounting credit house. It took me a little over two years to get it done.
      3. Check your state’s requirements. Some states require experience in public accounting while others don’t. Public accounting firms mostly only like to hire grads. My understanding is that it’s because the hours are insane and fresh grads will “drink the Kool aid.” More experienced workers don’t. There are some states that accept industry (working for a corporation in an accounting department), government, or non-profit for the work experience requirement.
      4. If you’re working for a corporation that will pay for CPA review courses, they’ll do it regardless of age. Not doing it for someone older if they do for new grads (especially over 40) would be age discrimination.
      5. Most accountants don’t have CPAs but are very successful in the field.

      Reply ↓
    2. Accounting Student*

      Check the CPA requirements for your state. In my state, you can do your units at community college if you have a BA in another field, you don’t necessarily have to get another degree. I’m getting my AA in accounting right now after getting my BA in social sciences nearly 20 years ago, but I’m not pursuing a CPA.

      You’ll have a head start because you already work in accounting. Local and regional firms are more welcoming to non-traditional students from what I’ve seen. Also, networking is huge in public accounting so see if the schools you’re considering have an accounting society or BAP chapter. At the presentations I’ve been to, the CPAs have said it was the number one thing for them getting a job after graduation. One of our presenters was a forensic accountant. He started in assurance (auditing) before moving over to the forensic unit, and that would probably be a typical path to get into that specialty.

      The US and international use different accounting standards (GAAP vs IFRS). We talked about the similarities and differences in my intermediate class but I don’t know anything about whether US-trained accountants can be employed abroad.

      Reply ↓
  47. Lady Lia*

    Is the current job market as bad as it seems? I scour job sites daily but only find a small handful of available positions, and then nothing comes from applying. It’s not a matter of lacking skills, qualifications, etc. There just doesn’t seem to be anyone hiring. Am I misguided?

    Reply ↓
    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      Look up bls.gov Employment by industry, monthly changes

      You can filter it by one month of change, and 3, 6, and 12 months of change

      You will see that hiring has been clustered in a few sectors. Almost all jobs created in the past 3 months was in schools and healthcare (That is one category). Some retail, and transportation/warehousing.

      Manufacturing, utilities, business services, information, wholesale trade, mining are all flat/slightly negative.

      If you overlap the lack or slow pace of job creation with any layoff tracker, you’ll come to the conclusion that we haven’t created enough jobs to reabsorb all the laid off folks, let alone folks trying to job hop

      Reply ↓
    2. Balanceofthemis*

      Unfortunately I’m finding that too. Part of the problem is with so many companies doing RTO it means relocating if your area doesn’t have much. And that’s not an option for everyone.

      Reply ↓
    3. Mid*

      It’s very industry and role dependent. My company is hiring for 3 roles that are well within/on the high end of market rate with solid benefits, and we can’t get any reasonable candidates. Tech and general business roles seem to have dried up, but healthcare, education, legal, and finance seem to all be hiring.

      Reply ↓
    4. Lily Rowan*

      I work for a university which is a large local employer and we have been in a hiring freeze for a month or so, and I’m guessing we aren’t alone. Anyone who might be impacted by the federal government is probably treading very carefully right now.

      Reply ↓
  48. the departing*

    I am planning on leaving my job in mid-May to move abroad and go back to school. I have hated my job for a long time, though I am very good at it. I am currently leading a large project and I’m debating when to give my notice.

    Insurance at my job is monthly and I’d like to make sure I still have health insurance for the month of May since my health insurance in my new country will start in June. I would prefer for my last day be the 15th or 16th of May to allow me some time off to focus on the move.

    I know it makes sense to put in my notice on May 1 and give the standard two weeks of notice. BUT I am SO DONE and having a hard time not revealing my doneness to my coworkers. The project I am leading is so large and time-sensitive, it would benefit my coworkers (who I like) to be thoughtful about who takes it over and to give that person a little time to transition into it. I think doing so would take more than two weeks. I feel like my company would appreciate being given 3-4 weeks of notice, but there’s a risk there. I’ve never seen them cut somebody early/ not accept their notice (in fact, they tend to ask people if they can stay longer!) but I would hate to be the first one to be cut loose early and lose health insurance sooner than expected.

    What are y’all’s thoughts?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      If you don’t have ongoing necessary medical expenses, you could potentially use COBRA for that coverage. Definitely fact check me on this, but the last time I left a role, there was a COBRA option that was retroactive. So what my friend told me was, “write a check for that (expensive) three months of COBRA, and put it on your fridge. If you end up getting through the period without insurance, great, you saved that money, but if you end up needing it, you can send in the money and it’s retroactive.” I thought it was odd they let you do this, but it was true of my plan at the time.

      Reply ↓
  49. KrobusCheese*

    I’m a contractor and don’t receive PTO. I’m feeling exhausted and I can’t afford to really take meaningful time off.

    Any advice for what I can do to feel more refreshed?

    I left a very toxic job and didn’t have a break between jobs. My new job is great but I’m still feeling very burned out from my last place.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Well … it’s completely unreasonable to expect to go a full year without any breaks (not even sick leave?) so if that’s truly the expectation, I suppose you’ve got to mentally deduct at least a few weeks of unpaid leave from the salary they’re offering you. If you thought you were making 70K, well, it’s 65K now. If it were me, I’d plan to pick up a side hustle to do so I could make that money back, and I’d work dang hard to double-dip the time at my real job because they deserve it. Does everyone else just take unpaid leave? There’s no way an entire company of people never get sick, want to be at a family wedding, etc. When I was freelancing, I had to build PTO into my hourly rate since obviously I wasn’t paid when I couldn’t work.

      Reply ↓
      1. KrobusCheese*

        The majority of people who work here are not contractors. It’s not expected that I don’t take PTO, but my contract is up later this year and I’m worried it will not get renewed. So I don’t want to lose income while I still have a job.

        I’m honestly too burned out to do a side hustle right now. I’m also physically disabled so there’s not much I’m able to do without increasing my pain levels.

        Reply ↓
      2. Clisby*

        I was a W2 contractor for a number of years (computer programmer). That’s exactly what I did. There was no PTO, paid sick leave, paid holidays – but that didn’t mean I couldn’t take them off. I built 4 weeks of unpaid time into my budget. The company I was working for was fine with me being off those days.

        Reply ↓
    2. Who knows*

      Are there non-work things that exhaust you that you can outsource for less cost than what you get paid? e.g. ordering meals from a meal prep/delivery service, house cleaning, dog walker, etc.?

      Reply ↓
    3. Decidedly Me*

      If taking time off isn’t feasible for you, then I would really lean into whatever it is that helps you feel recharged outside of work (hobbies, etc). If you’re too exhausted for any of that, then lean into more rest.

      Reply ↓
  50. kitsloanico*

    I’ve come to notice that my boss really “babies” the other departments that are dependent on our work. Let’s say we’re in HR, but my boss wants us to do employee’s expense reports for them if they’re having difficulty. My problem of course is this loads me up with a bunch of stuff I really think these people should be doing for themselves. I do probably have the capacity to do it, and she was doing it all herself before I got there. There’s not really anything I can do about it, right? Complicating factors: I’m new, she’s been here forever, and I think she gets a lot of personal satisfaction out of being the “fixer” for people. I just don’t think I have the capital to push back on this, and she is my boss so she can choose how she wants to deploy my efforts. Would you just roll your eyes and do this?

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      I wouldn’t if you are new but you should ask her about priorities. “I can do Griselda’s expense report but that means I won’t have time to get to waxing the filing cabinets.”

      Reply ↓
    2. Antilles*

      If it’s something that fits in your schedule, I’d probably do it. At least temporarily. Once you’ve built up some credibility, maybe you can suggest a training session or something like that to address some of the common problems and cut down on the work load.
      Let’s say we’re in HR, but my boss wants us to do employee’s expense reports for them if they’re having difficulty.
      Just for the record, this example doesn’t seem outlandish to me. I assume you’re using this as a general indication of the kinds of issues, but there’s certainly reasons why HR doing employee’s expense reports if they’re having difficulty would be a reasonable choice.

      Reply ↓
    3. Educator*

      Something I have had to accept as I moved up through the ranks and needed to delegate more is that just because I can figure out how to do something myself does not mean I should if it will eat a lot of time that should go to other priorities. So I could figure out the glitch with the expense report program, or I could go call a major client to firm up the details of a big contract. Obviously, it is better for my organization if I go call the client, even if that means somebody else has to help me with the expense report. As a very independent person, this kind of thing makes me crazy! But I have had enough people from support departments (HR, IT, Finance, etc.) tell me to go do the work that only I can do, and let them do the things they can help with, that I have taken it to heart.

      So I would look at the things people “should be doing for themselves” through that lens. If you are doing that work, what are they free to do? If the answer is nothing, it means they need more training, but I would be surprised if it is.

      Reply ↓
      1. kitsloanico*

        I’m biased, but I’d say the glitch in the reporting system is that people have realized if they whine to my boss that they’re “so busy,” they can just email her the receipts and she’ll do their expense reports for them … :P

        Reply ↓
  51. Joie De Vivre*

    PeopleSoft – any end user groups for Financial modules?

    I’d like to find a group of end users for PeopleSoft to discuss how to track POs, getting invoices in a timely manner, etc. does anyone know of a group?

    Reply ↓
  52. Missing Stair Awareness Society*

    Thanks to everyone who replied last week about new supervisor Bob and problem coworker Cecil. I apologize for not responding but I appreciated and contemplated the ideas. I get the impression Bob’s awareness is growing, and I have held off saying anything more for now (being aware also of a conversation in which some of these gaps were made obvious). If a good opportunity arises to raise things as objectively and work-affecting as possible, I will. Hopefully I don’t run afoul of a friendship, but I should be fine in my job (having a good deal of capital).

    On the issue of competence, Cecil’s gotten lots of help (a lot from me) and very little seems to sink in. I have explained what to do and why, and he often gets half the what and completely messes up the why, which, in a job which requires communication & persuasion, isn’t workable. Add in concerns about alignment and I am as open as I can, and continue to answer any question, etc., but also to keep some things as side discussions that I otherwise would have in the full group. That seems to me to be prudent so I will continue to do it and hope that the slow wheels at my job are in fact still turning (and that maybe there can be a mutual recognition that this isn’t a great match).

    Reply ↓
  53. Newbie*

    Comms / PR folk – would love your help! I’m four years into my career, i fell into comms post grad, and I’m not sure if I’m just looking for more responsibilities or if what I want is in a different lane all together.

    I used to do comms consulting for political campaigns and advocacy campaigns, I liked that fine especially when I’d help orchestrate large protests or press conferences on certain ballot issues etc but now do in house comms for an advocacy nonprofit. The work I find the most rewarding is press events/campaigns – we did one last summer where we held press conferences across the country on people’s front porches who had done a specific climate action at their home using a specific govt program. But that’s the ONLY event series / campaign we’ve done in the 2+ years I’ve been here. We are a fully remote org fwiw. We haven’t put on a press conference (outside those events) in 2 years.

    Most of my time is responding to press inquiries, prepping people for those interviews, and then copy editing things from our policy team or writing talking points no one really uses. We RARELY proactively pitch.

    I just feel like I have no control with this type of work (meaning the just responding to constant incoming press inquiries) and we just cross our fingers and hope our expert is included (they usually are).

    I guess my question is – knowing that the events / campaigns are more my speed, is this the field for me? Do I need to like into a more specialized role? Is it just my org’s strategy (or lack thereof) don’t like? Help pls!

    Reply ↓
    2. Quercus*

      Sounds like it’s probably just your orgs strategy. You could try talking to your boss about what you like to do, and maybe the org would be happy to have you put more energy towards theseb kinds of things.

      Reply ↓
  54. Funfetti*

    Job Application + LinkedIn Question-

    I applied for a really great job (as close to dream as possible) two weeks ago. While no word on interview, I got a notification from LinkedIn that the Hiring Manager at this job looked at my profile (!) a week later.

    While yes this is great in terms of I know my resume/cover was at least looked at, I’m kind of at a loss on what to do next or feel as I haven’t heard anything since.
    (1) Should I message the Hiring Manager saying anything? I did click back on their profile to show I know that they looked at me.
    (2) Argghhhhh – why won’t they just send me an email asking me to interview?

    I feel really frustrated that I thought I got this resounding yes I was getting an interview and now there’s been nothing. I know altogether its been 2ish weeks which is nothing in hiring timeline PLUS the job is still up (despite it having an apply by this date).

    So if folks could give advice/talk me off a ledge I’d appreciate it!

    Reply ↓
    2. Sloanicota*

      Oh dear, I’m sorry to say I don’t think there’s anything you can do but back awaaay from the computer and do something distracting … apply for 10 new jobs this week, or something. Messaging the HR manager is not the move in my opinion.

      Reply ↓
    3. Cordelia*

      Focus on this bit in your post “I know altogether it’s been 2ish weeks which is nothing in hiring timeline” and ignore the fact they looked at your LinkedIn, you can’t tell anything from that. Definitely don’t message the hiring manager, whatever would you say? “I saw you looked at my profile, why haven’t you sent me an invite yet?” They know you are interested in the post because you applied for it, it’s out of your hands now until/unless you get an invite to interview. Go and do something nice with your weekend! Good luck

      Reply ↓
    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You must chill. Don’t reach out to the hiring manager.

      When I’m hiring, and I look at a LinkedIn profile, it could mean:
      (a) I didn’t reject you completely out of hand and wanted to look at your profile to see what else you had there that wasn’t on the resume, or
      (b) I didn’t recognize your current/past employers and wanted to see *their* profiles, or
      (c) I thought I recognized your name and wanted to see if we knew each other, or
      (d) Corporate policy is we look at all LinkedIn profiles for whatever reason, or
      etc.

      This company may not send out interview invitations until they’ve reviewed every applicant.

      Also, don’t forget that it’s spring break time right now, so it’s very possible that the hiring manager or other people in the process may be on vacation.

      Reply ↓
      1. H.C.*

        This (esp the reasons why hiring manager viewed your LI) – don’t read too much into it and hang tight until they contact you for next steps.

        Reply ↓
    5. Rex Libris*

      Even if I’ve looked at some of the resumes, we don’t schedule interviews until I’ve seen all of them and selected who I want to talk to. It’s just a slow process most places, unfortunately.

      Reply ↓
    6. Funfetti*

      Thank you all for your kind responses! I am off the ledge!

      Also the internet (as we know) can be a black hole of information and I was getting mixed messages. But I knew the AAM commerati would keep me sane.

      Reply ↓
  55. MsM*

    So looks like I have a question of my own: a friend just called to vent about being hit with an unexpected PIP. The issues cited weren’t necessarily a surprise to them, but they’re not things my friend has a ton of control over, and there hasn’t been any prior warning that the problems were considered serious enough that this might be on the table. They also haven’t been given any details yet on exactly what the timeline for improvement looks like (which is a shitty thing to do to someone on a Friday, but I digress). Their boss says more information will be forthcoming during a regular check-in on Monday.

    Complicating the matter is that the boss is relatively new: up to this point, they’ve seemed nice and reasonable, but there isn’t a strong rapport there, and I don’t know that they can rule out the possibility boss just wants to bring in their own people. The department politics are messy in general; the person the boss technically reports to is not well liked or focused on day-to-day operations, and I think there’s some hope they’re on their way out, but until then they still have a fair bit of influence due to their position on the org chart and may be throwing their weight around.

    Obviously I’m going to spend the weekend helping them look at listings and get their resume together. But how should they approach the conversation with their boss on Monday? Is there room for them to push back? What should they be listening for, and what questions should they ask?

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think “they’re not things my friend has a ton of control over” is a key point here.

      How much control **does** your friend have?

      Is it: “You are failing to meet the standard of painting 5 teapots every day” -> “there is only room for 4 teapots in the overnight kiln, so there are never enough of them for me to work on when I arrive for work.” That’s mostly out of their control, but have they documented & communicated to the kiln department, and tried to actually figure out a solution?

      Or is it: “You are failing…” -> “My brushes aren’t clean so I need to go to the supply desk on the other side of the floor to get new ones, and that puts me behind.” The solution is for them to do a better job cleaning at the end of their shift, and probably to improve their technique so they aren’t loading the brushes so heavily.

      Or is it: “You are failing…” -> “It takes me a while to figure out which colors I want to use”. Which is totally on them.

      Reply ↓
      1. MsM*

        Closest to 1, with the added wrinkle that part of the reason they’re struggling to get the teapots painted is that the Assistant Teapot Painter, who nominally reports to them, keeps getting pulled away to do work for other departments or having personal emergencies. Which is something that their boss is aware of, but the message up to this point has been “hang tight; we’ll work on getting assistant’s responsibilities clarified.”

        Reply ↓
        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          Well that is not something somebody should be on a PIP for… I wonder about other management practices at your friend’s job.

          Reply ↓
    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      When you receive a PIP the important thing is to listen. Your “friend” shouldn’t go in there trying to push back or prove the PIP is wrong. It’s already been approved by HR. You want to show that you are taking their concerns seriously, you are committed to improving what they want improved, you are willing to have whatever check ins they want to do. Take notes, ask for copies of the paperwork. Detach emotionally a bit, process those later not in front of HR and bosses.

      A lot of times the PIP is just the formality to be able to fire someone. A handful of times it’s a way to actually be able to improve and stay in the job role. So your instinct to start job hunting is correct!

      Reply ↓
      1. MsM*

        I promise friend genuinely is a friend and not me (although I can’t rule out the possibility I will also need this advice at some point), but thank you!

        Reply ↓
    3. Rex Libris*

      There is no room to push back. Yes, communication could have been (way better) but when you’re already on thin ice, it is not time to stomp your feet.

      They should do the contrite “I’m sorry you’re dissatisfied with my performance and obviously I want to do whatever I can to change that” thing. They also need to get clarification on:

      What specific issues would the manager like addressed?
      What is the timeline for improvement?
      Overall, what does the successful completion of the PIP look like in the Manager’s view?

      Preferably get the details in writing. Tell your friend to keep notes on their own progress, and things they have done to improve their performance or address the issues brought up as they go, so it will be easier to refresh their memory and organize their thoughts if they need to argue their case later.

      Reply ↓
      2. allathian*

        True, but penalizing someone for things they have no control over is never okay. If the friend isn’t getting what they need to do their job from other people, addressing that should be the first step.

        Reply ↓
    4. Random Academic Cog*

      Something I’ve seen (and taken advantage of once or twice to make long overdue changes) is that new leadership often has a private charge from the hiring team or hiring manager to clean house. Things that were tolerated for years, but really weren’t ok or were only minimally adequate, are front and center. That’s not always or solely the case, but it’s common enough that it can’t be dismissed as a possibility.

      Reply ↓
  56. AI All the things*

    Are you a job seeker or are you a hiring manager, outside of higher education? If so, are you finding questions about AI present in interviews? “What are your AI skills?” or “What training have you had in AI?”

    I’m in higher ed on so very, very many AI committees and task forces and we keep being told that employers are asking for these skills. I wonder 1) if they are and 2) if they even know what they want hear?

    Reply ↓
    1. Decidedly Me*

      As a hiring manager, I’m not asking any AI questions. However, I was asked by a candidate if AI was likely to replace the role I was hiring for.

      Reply ↓
    2. Mid*

      I’m in the legal field, so AI is not super widely used and likely won’t be for a while (well, that’s not totally true actually. Most of what we call AI is just ML, and legal databases have been using ML for ages to help get better search results, for example. But generative AI, as in having AI write legal documents, is a big no-no. Mostly because AI currently makes up laws that don’t exist.)

      Reply ↓
    3. Lee the SQL*

      My most recent interviewing was hiring a college co-op specifically to work on AI projects along with more general software development tasks, so I was definitely asking about their experience with AI. I was only interviewing folks with specific AI related experience on their resumes, so that portion was mostly asking details about those projects. What was the task, what potions did they do, how did they decide what tool to use etc. Since the space is evolving so fast, I’m not looking for expertise in specific tools so much as their approach and what they learned.

      Our interviews are primarily targeted selection/behavioral questions, so this is a relatively small portion of the overall interview, and most of it comes out in the examples they use answering the “tell me about a time…” questions.

      Reply ↓
    4. Educator*

      My team works with a lot of confidential and proprietary information, so I am most interested in making sure my potential employees and new hires know when NOT to use AI.

      General questions about AI skills strike me as ridiculous. It’s the equivalent of asking “do you know how to use the internet” or “do you know how to use software.” Such a broad set of things, embedded in every device.

      The use of AI might come up in an interview as part of a question like “tell me how you would approach problem x” but even then I would want to hear about it as a targeted part of a thoughtful strategy, not a be-all, end-all solution.

      Reply ↓
  57. Mantaray*

    I manage someone who is pretty difficult to work with. He isn’t self-aware or reflective, hates authority and being given explicit direction, and is generally pretty bad with people. He got close to a PIP last year and improved his outcomes, but not his attitude. The outcomes are fine, but he isn’t excelling enough to make the challenges worth it. I’d much prefer a new hire. I’m at my limit with him. Any resources or advice? I know this is vague but I have talked at length to HR and my own boss about him and have been told it’s difficult or impossible to terminate for attitude.

    Reply ↓
    1. Fluffy Fish*

      Put him on a PIP for his attitude but couch it in terms of work product – creating and maintaining positive work relationships is absolutely critical to good work outputs.

      It’s there you just might have to get creative or dig for the impact on the actual work.

      Reply ↓
    2. Indolent Libertine*

      “Attitude” is internal, and you don’t need to correct what he’s thinking, just the ways in which his actions negatively affect you and his coworkers . How does his “hating authority” actually manifest itself? Does he push back verbally or in email? Then you can make it a requirement that he accept assignments and feedback without rude or challenging replies, etc. Be specific about the unacceptable behavior that comes from the “attitude” (which I absolutely believe is there) and put him on a PIP for that.

      Reply ↓
    3. SunnyShine*

      Brush up on your HR speech and get more detailed about what he is doing. Does he hate authority or is he creating a hostile work place because he is yelling at his coworkers?
      Does he hate direction or is he being insubordinate by refusing to do his assigned work tasks?
      Don’t worry about his internal state as it muddles the message. You need to show how he is affecting the team and work by focusing on facts.

      Reply ↓
  58. Did I say something wrong?*

    Diplomatic communicators, please help me save myself from “reactive” emails. I have an awful habit of sending emails that can be a bit – overwrought – if it’s an issue that irritates me. What strategies do people have for not hitting that SEND button immediately, but walking away from the message for a while? I’m perfectly capable of writing in a more thoughtful style, but my irritated side overrides it from time to time.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Use rational economics.

      Which behavior gets you what you actually want? Popping off in the moment, or waiting 2 minutes and writing something thoughtful.

      The overwrought email might feel good for 10 minutes, and might give you something to gloat over with friends the next day, but it has negative effects in the physical world. The sane, professional email doesn’t give you emotional satisfaction in the moment, but it gives you better objective results. And I’d bet that it will also give you long-term positive emotional results (feeling better about yourself professionally and having better emotional regulation in other parts of life too), but not the sugar high that snark gives you.

      Reply ↓
    2. Jaydee*

      Set up delay send on your emails. Then if you click send and instantly have regrets, you can claw the email back and edit it before clicking send again.

      Practice recognizing when this happens and telling yourself that you can type it all out and then you have to do something else, get up and walk around a bit, etc. and reread/edit it before you can send it.

      Find a coworker or two you trust who can be a sounding board or occasionally review your responses for tone.

      Reply ↓
    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      You can set a delay send , like schedule them for an hour from now. But it’s better if you just don’t reply when feeling emotional. Flag the email and set a timer to come back to it.

      Reply ↓
    4. Elle Woods*

      I will draft a response and come back to it an hour or two later. By that time, whatever irritated me immediately has usually abated and I’m able to write something more diplomatic.

      Reply ↓
    5. Cortado*

      That idea of writing a letter and burning it works well for me. I write what I actually want to say (I’m talking completely unfiltered) in my Notes app or somewhere other than the email itself, then re-read it until the satisfaction wears off, and delete. I usually end up hating what I wrote. I’m not super impulsive in the way I communicate, but I still get very worked up over these things, and this is the best way I know to work through those feelings and move on.

      Reply ↓
    6. Hlao-roo*

      Other commenters have covered “delayed send” very well. Some other options are:

      * Drafting an email outside of your email program (for example, drafting your angry emails in Word or Notepad instead of Outlook/Gmail). That lets you get all the words out without the possibility those words ending up in anyone else’s inbox.

      * Drafting an email in your email program, but in a “new email” window with the “To:” field blank. (I write almost all of the emails this way just to avoid accidently sending half-written emails out into the world)

      * Going for a walk (or to the bathroom, or to the breakroom for a cup of coffee, etc.) post-draft and pre-send button. Depending on your office layout (or if you can go outside for a few minutes), you might be able to speed walk a little bit to “burn off” some of that irritation. When you get back to your desk, hopefully the urge to hit the send button has worn off.

      Reply ↓
    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Before you start typing a reply, remove EVERY recipient from the “to” field. (And cc and bcc.) That will require you to look at least twice, and you can’t accidentally hit send before you review.

      Reply ↓
      1. Kathenus*

        THIS! When I have an email that has emotions wrapped up in it, I always do it with no one in the To or CC fields so there is not chance of hitting ‘send’ by habit accidentally. Then I come back to it later in the day or the next day and see how I feel. In some cases where appropriate I have someone I trust review it and get feedback as well.

        Reply ↓
    8. Lady Danbury*

      Type it in word and then walk away. If you have someone who you can trust, run the draft email by them and get their thoughts. Set a timer on your phone for an hour or two (however long you think you’ll need) to come back to it.

      Reply ↓
    9. Friday Me*

      #1 – I imagine the impact it could have if I don’t wait until I calm down before I write the email.

      #2 – I use a tool like Goblin Tools to make my words more professional, polite, etc. but I also take a peek at the sarcastic option to make myself laugh.

      Reply ↓
    10. Elsewise*

      Start every email with “to show you where I’m coming from, I have attached my middle school diary.” Most email clients these days will flag if you try to send something without an attachment, and this is embarrassing enough that you won’t actually rage-send.

      (My middle school diary is not available to send because I tore it up and ate it in eighth grade.)

      Reply ↓
    11. you can't fire me, I'm retiring*

      Don’t write your response in email. Put it in a google doc or whatever. Then you can’t just hit send. Type it up, close it up. Come back a bit later. Reread, revise, copy-paste into email. Then hit send.

      Reply ↓
    12. Lee the SQL*

      I’ve worked to train myself to be aware when I get that fired up/adrenaline feeling while typing and to stop. Then I do what others have suggested and type my answers in a blank email draft. If it’s a real hot topic I have outlooks robot voice read my response to me first as well. Something about that vaguely over enthusiastic bland voice makes over reacting really stand out

      Reply ↓
    13. Educator*

      Is email the best place for these conversations? Sometimes when I am irritated, I find it is better to calm down, call the person or go to them directly if I can, and discuss it. Makes both of us more human to each other, and lets me use a collaborative tone that cannot be conveyed over email.

      Reply ↓
    14. JelloStapler*

      write it in Word first as a scathing response getting everything out, then set a time before you come back to re-write.

      Reply ↓
  59. NapOlympian*

    I’m trying to decide if I want to pursue reporting hostile/intimidating behavior, because a) I have left that office, but I’m still at the organization and b) I don’t know if it qualifies as HIB. My departmental director began targeting people last summer who had regular telehealth appointments that we were required to either take sick leave or FMLA, even though policy states that any leave less than 2 hours does not need to be reported and because it is antithetical to workplace flexibility. The added salt in the wounds was his granting of flexibility to a colleague who is taking courses for a master’s program (unrelated to our field) calling it professional development. Funnily enough, that person is now pregnant and is facing the same level of BS that us with health concerns are facing. I ended up having to do disability accommodations, which was really emotionally complex. He didn’t stop the accommodations, but he did make it seem like the appointments were taking valuable time away from clients, even though I regularly work more than 40 hours a week (salaried). I just don’t know if it makes sense, what my goal out of it is.

    Reply ↓
    1. Balanceofthemis*

      Report him. He is treating people differently based on people’s health or his perception of their health. This is absolutely reportable and, depending on you works place and number of employees, probably violates the ADA.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lilian Field*

      We are in a professional environment right now in which many people can’t report these kinds of violations safely, or without fear of retribution. If your move to a different part of the organization can protect you from retribution, I think that you would probably be performing a huge and timely service to a lot of people in that department.
      What I’ve seen, as a disabled person, is that many people are currently being emboldened by the current administration to act in more bigoted and anti-ADA ways. Because the federal government is acting as if disabled people are no longer in a protected category, managers in other sectors are starting to test the waters and act the same way. However, the law is still the law. If you are able to make a complaint, and if this manager is disciplined or brought in line, you could really do something to combat this kind of injustice.

      Reply ↓
  60. EV*

    I am at a point where I hate going to work. I’m miserable almost all of most days. The management is too busy and doesn’t manager problems from my department and generally doesn’t care about the quality of work unless we’re here. My coworkers aren’t doing a great job and it drives me crazy and I pick up most of the slack. My commute is 20-30 minutes. It’s a nice job with nice pay and nice benefits, but the environment (also lots of gossip and backstabbing) makes me sick every single day.
    I have an opportunity for a much nicer work environment at a position with slightly better pay, much more competent and involved management, a smaller workplace with less gossip and negativity, but the commute is twice as long and I’ll be away from home much longer.
    TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCES! Has anyone made this kind of change? How did it go??? What do you regret?!

    Reply ↓
    1. BellStell*

      Do it.

      I am in the same place and hate going to work now. I take anti anxiety meds to deal with the all the nonsense. I am looking for a new job. I would jump at a chance like this as long as the longer commute did not eat up all the extra in pay.

      Reply ↓
    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I worked from home wayyyy back in the 2010s, before it was cool. Then I got an in-person office job that was a 1.5-2.5 hour commute from where I lived (depending on traffic, if I took the train, if I missed the train, etc.). I haaaaaated that commute. I ended up moving after being at the job about 7 months to an apt that was only 20 min from the office on the bus.

      The thing about having a long commute is not just that you’re in the car for that much longer, but, as you point out, you’re also away from home that much longer and it also makes your day a lot longer and more tiring (with less actual time to do non-work things that you need or want to do like cooking, grocery shopping, hanging out with friends, exercising…the list goes on). So factor that into your equation. It might be very worth it for you to get away from your toxic workplace and into what hopefully is a better one, but it could also be really annoying. For me, it also meant that I never wanted to do anything on the weekends except be home, since I wasn’t really ever home and conscious during the week. It really put a damper on my social life.

      Is this the only other place you could possibly work? Are there other places closer to you that might be similar in salary range? And what, if any, are the policies on hybrid work? The place I was at really had a firm but-in-seats policy but allowed one day WFH if you could make a good business case for it. Were it now, I would totally have done so, but I was younger and dumber and didn’t try very hard to do so.

      Reply ↓
    3. Generic Name*

      I worked a job that was 15 mins from my house for about 12 years. I wasn’t MISERABLE at the end, but I definitely wasn’t happy. I got a job much further away and the commute doubled. Don’t regret it for a second. Even if your commute is MISERABLE, that’s 2 hours a day being miserable versus the 8 hours (plus?) that you are miserable now.

      Reply ↓
    4. Cyndi*

      Maybe you’re driving and your gauge for this is very different from me, a transit commuter? But an extra 20 minutes each way doesn’t sound to me like something that’ll have a big impact on your life once you have a few weeks to adjust to it. My vote is that it’d be 150% worth it for a job you’d be happier at.

      Reply ↓
      1. EV*

        It’s a driving commute, so I would be driving 40-55 minutes one way, versus the 20-30 minutes I drive now. Traffic wouldn’t be horrible. It does suck not being on transit because I can’t really do anything productive while driving

        Reply ↓
    5. Lilian Field*

      There was a study at some point–unfortunately I’m citing from memory and could have details way wrong–suggesting that a terrible commute was worth about $60k a year in salary, in terms of quality of life. The point of the study was that a really bad commute is a bigger deal than most people realize.
      However, in my experience, there’s an enormous difference between a pleasant hour-long commute and a terrible hour-long commute. If you’re on commuter rail for an hour, reading the paper and decompressing, that’s not so bad. Being in traffic for an hour each way can be soul-destroying. So in my opinion, a big part of the question is the quality of the commute.

      Reply ↓
      1. EV*

        Traffic wouldn’t be horrible for this one, definitely not soul-destroying :) I have experienced that and it just makes a miserable job so much worse. What do you mean worth 60k in salary? The quality-of-life improvement of a nicer job?
        I am definitely asking for higher pay to compensate for the increase commute and fuel costs

        Reply ↓
        1. Lilian Field*

          I think it’ll be simplest if I just send you to a summary of the research. I was wrong; the figure was $40k. Here’s a write-up:
          https://www.hottakes.space/p/ditching-your-commute-worth-40kyear

          Here’s a summary of the study from the book _Thrive_ (cited at the link above):

          “When you look at Americans’ day-to-day activity … the top two things we hate the most on a day-to-day basis is, No. 1: housework and No. 2: the daily commute in our cars. In fact, if you can cut an hourlong commute each way out of your life, it’s the [happiness] equivalent of making up an extra $40,000 a year if you’re at the $50- to $60,000 level. Huge … [So] it’s an easy way for us to get happier. Move closer to your place of work.”

          It looks like the study itself is from the Scandinavian Journal of Economics.

          Reply ↓
    6. PokemonGoToThePolls*

      How sure are you of the positives of the potential new workplace? I would worry that it might look good from the outside, but once you’re there it’s not much better and now you also have a much worse commute

      Reply ↓
    7. SunnyShine*

      I left a toxic workplace into a job with better benefits, pay, and nicer coworkers. I still ended up with a micromanager boss from hell.
      The important thing for me is to realize that people will always gossip, managers may not always give the attention everyone deserves, don’t take everything personally, and I don’t have to pick up my coworker’s slack. Perhaps now is the time to set boundaries for yourself?

      Reply ↓
  61. AnotherAcademic*

    I’m prepping for a 10 or 12 hour interview in academic administration. (If you’re unfamiliar with this process, it’s a day-long process where I meet with different groups.) Looking for advice about how to maintain stamina and energy–the last event of the day will be a dinner with my prospective boss, so I have to finish strong.

    Also, has anyone totally bombed a process like this? I’m not too worried, but reading about what went wrong (and how to avoid it) would probably be helpful. I’ll take good wishes too!

    Reply ↓
      1. Blewe*

        check out the archives of Karen Kelsey’s blog, The Professor is in — lots of articles on how to interview.

        My go-to tips: take advantage of EVERY offet for a water/bathroom break throughout the day, even if you don’t have to go — just to enjoy a second of alone time.
        Bring Ricola cough drops in case your voice gets dry.
        pack an energy bar you can snarf down in the bathroom between breaks in case you get hungry mid-day

        Reply ↓
        1. Lilian Field*

          Great recommendation.
          Watch what you eat throughout the day. Make sure you’re getting a balance of fat and protein, as well as sugar. Put snacks like nuts in your bag, or protein bars. If you are prone to caffeine crashes, watch the caffeine intake. You will probably need some caffeine and sugar throughout the day, but you don’t want to crash before the meeting with the chair. (Kelsky actually talks about this.)
          Make sure you get the interview schedule ahead of time. Figure out, or get advice, about which parts of the day are low-stakes and which are high-stakes. You can’t afford to offend anybody, but there are times in the interview when you could get away with being less impressive. Use those times to give yourself a break/talk less/let your mind wander.
          Have a really good plan for getting enough sleep the night before. Nerves can kill your sleep. Being sleep-deprived going into an interview like this one is really hard–or, to put it more kindly, being well-rested can be an enormous help.
          Consider going on a relaxed walk or staying active during the breaks in your schedule. Don’t give yourself a chance to crash.
          Do what you can to prep for all questions ahead of time, as much as possible. Feeling well-prepared, and being able to run on autopilot from time to time, will really help you out.
          Practice positive thinking! The more optimism you can maintain throughout the day, the more enthusiasm you will project.
          In your shoes, I wouldn’t wear a new suit. Wear something appropriate, which you know is comfortable, and which you’ve had to work/perform in already. Self-consciousness is exhausting. The more you can get into the flow, the better.
          Remember to be interested and curious about everything around you. The more you can have fun and gratify your own interests, the more your energy levels will stay high.

          Reply ↓
        3. Professor X*

          Seconding all of this. Stay hydrated, and take every second of quiet you can get.
          I had a couple quick meditation techniques I could do standing at a sink or in a hallway to help reset my mind between interviews, and that was useful. (Mostly variations on the 5 things you see / 4 things you feel / 3 you hear, etc).

          If someone is hostile or asks off-the-wall questions, especially in larger open sessions, remember that academics can be weird and it likely has nothing to do with you. It’s just someone else’s personal agenda spilling over. The people actually on the hiring committees do better at being professional all day.

          Ask people about their research or what they personally like about living in [college city]. Those tend to get good responses, especially in the less rigid settings like dinner. They’re safe conversational go-tos and can get you useful info.

          Finishing strong is important, sure, but your interviewers have all been through this gauntlet too. Most people know you’re tired and are very accommodating if you ask for a break or lose some steam by the end.

          I once killed an interview by asking pretty undiplomatically if the department actually got any real support from the university. Don’t do that, haha. As soon as I asked the question, I knew it was over. But I learned, and thankfully got more chances, and now here I am.

          Best of luck!

          Reply ↓
    2. GigglyPuff*

      I’ve definitely bombed them! I have ADHD so tend to start off strong but by 2pm my brain is just shutting down. I have literally lost all thought in my head and stopped talking, specifically twice in the span of answering one question. So embarrassing. Hopefully they are giving you breaks, and I agree, anything that will give you a quick energy pick me up, caffeine, granola bar, chocolate, etc. Also eating a decent breakfast with protein has always helped. Bring your own water, they’ll probably have some but not everyone does.

      Don’t start a new medication two days before, don’t leave any of the presentation work until the night before (have a really hard time breaking this habit, lol), wear clothes you won’t fidget in, and know that if anyone reacts to any of your questions weirdly, that’s on them not you. Once had a manager get clearly annoyed I asked about the salary range and said it was on the job posting (it was not, I had a copy in my bag) and that he had to look it up. And you will spend the next two days rehashing how you could’ve answered things better.

      But also it’s a little weird they are doing dinner the day of the interview, everywhere I’ve been it’s the night before, and once breakfast with the dean.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    3. JustaTech*

      My only experience like this was my single grad school interview.
      By the end of the day we were all exhausted and the one guy in the group leans back in his seat and pulls a Red Bull out of his suit jacket pocket (no idea how he hid it in there).
      We were all quite impressed.
      (Turns out he was an on-campus rep for Red Bull, so always had a few on him.)

      Reply ↓
    4. Educator*

      I’ve done a few of these all-day marathon interviews. The most helpful thing for me was to forget about trying to impress them, and focus instead on learning the things I wanted to know about the job. It’s hard to be super on for that long, so I say let your guard down and lead with curiosity. Especially with your boss at the end of the day, prep some questions you really want to ask her.

      And have some small talk ready to go. So much time is walking between meetings, sitting around waiting for someone, etc. Having a few go-tos for the in between time (How long have you worked here? Is it true that students throw coins in that fountain? What is the town like?) really helps, and can teach you a lot about the vibe too.

      Reply ↓
  62. Communication Style Conflicts*

    I’m not necessarily dealing with this right now, but just thinking about it as I prepare to enter a new role at a new organization. When two people have two different communication styles (for the sake of discussion, let’s say one prefers email, the other in-person discussion), whose style takes priority? Who should defer to whom?

    Does the org hierarchy come into play here? Something else? What about other types of conflicts along these lines that are more about approaches to work and don’t necessarily have a right/wrong answer?

    I should perhaps note I’m also asking this as a woman with (very likely) ADHD that often makes it difficult for me to interpret social cues. Maybe I’m just overthinking this and it’s not about one person conceding to another’s style but just awareness of preference and expecting that preference from the other person?

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      It’s hierarchy. You defer to whoever has seniority. If your boss wants updates via email, by golly you send them via email. If your boss wants verbal updates and a slide deck, you make a slide deck and present it.

      A lot of times you can do your preferred as well. Like my boss at my old job was a sit down and verbally update person, I’m a like to have it in writing person. So I’d take notes and at the end of the meeting, go so just to summarize my action items I’m going to do XYZ and then ABC as time permits, which meant I walked away with a list we agreed on.

      Reply ↓
      1. Communication Style Conflicts*

        Ooh this is interesting. In my first management role (my current one), I’ve tried to accommodate my direct reports’ preferences. I still think that’s useful to do, but maybe I’ve put too much effort into it! Maybe I should recalibrate for the next.

        Reply ↓
        1. Annony*

          I think part depends on if it really matters. You want to be able to get work done effectively. So if your direct report seems to need things in writing to remember them, you probably want to accommodate even if you prefer to communicate verbally unless it actually creates a burden for you.

          Reply ↓
      2. Lady Danbury*

        Your example is exactly how a good employee handles it. I used to have a direct report who would ask for assignment requests in writing, via email. I explained that I didn’t have time to always put requests in writing, especially since that often requires extra effort to be comprehensive since there’s less opportunity to ask questions and ensure that the recipient is on the same page with you, versus face to face conversation. Instead, I suggested that he follow up our conversations with an email saying “my understanding of the request is xyz, can you confirm?” He refused to do so but continued to complain about not receiving requests in writing. I know for a fact that he had faaaaaaaar more free time I did, as evidenced by often taking 1.5 hour lunches but always leaving right at 5, while I was often working 10-12 hour days.

        That was one of many reasons why he was a terrible employee overall, to the point where I thought I was a bad manager until I no longer had to manage him!

        Reply ↓
        1. allathian*

          I guess I’m glad I don’t work for you because I’m crap at taking notes myself and always afraid I’ll miss something because I can’t rely on undestanding verbal instructions and keep second-guessing myself. I love getting clear written instructions to follow and to refer back to. To be fair, I work comms-adjacent and all the people I work with are great at writing clear, concise, and actionable instructions.

          Sometimes things are complex enough that it’s better to call and talk it through, and in those cases I can confirm in writing immediately after the call while it’s still fresh in my memory. But taking notes while I’m also expected to speak? No can do, sorry.

          I don’t think the manager’s preferences should be the final word. A bit of flexibility can go a long way, especially if you value diversity in your workplace.

          In my org, the stated number one priority for managers is to make it as easy as possible for their employees to do their jobs as well as possible. They’re supposed to be coaches and facilitators rather than martinets.

          I’ve had 4 managers in the last 5 years (and 2 in the preceding 13 at the same org), and every time a new manager started, they asked us about our preferred ways of working and communication. Given that mine seem to match the organizational culture, there’s never been any trouble. That said, I do wonder what’d happen if my team hired a strong verbal processor who has to talk things through, preferably with someone else, to internalize them…

          Reply ↓
    2. cmdrspacebabe*

      I think of it as awareness of preference and what works best for the context, unless there’s a specific reason to use one format or another, like an accessibility barrier or a technical requirement. If it comes up frequently with a specific person, it’s worth talking through to see if there’s a compromise. For ex, I have a coworker who cold-calls, but I don’t keep my ringer on because of constant spam (and also hate cold calls lol). Meanwhile they were never responding to my IMs. When I asked about it, it turned out to be an accessibility issue with their screenreader software, so now we communicate by phone but schedule the calls first by email.

      When I’ve had the conversations, it generally goes something like,
      “[Greeting]! Any chance you’d be up for doing this by [format]? I find [format] easier for this because of [reasons].” And then we negotiate based on who has the strongest or most practical preference. I think this applies to the ‘approaches to work’ aspect of your question as well – if you both share the reasons behind your preferences, you can figure out how to meet in the middle.

      Hierarchy would usually only come into play if I was dealing with someone significantly senior to me, and they, say, wanted to do video calls for everything but I hate cameras. If they’re very senior, I wouldn’t push back unless I had a strong reason to cite.

      Reply ↓
    3. AnonymousOctopus*

      I experienced a conflict like this in a prior job around being sent in to the field (for lack of a better term). I worked in an office with tens of coworkers in my same role, but our profession means that some assignments are not a good fit for a specific person or would even be unethical to take. Our primary job duties were done in the office, but if you were full time the field coordinator could pull us to go do an assignment if they couldn’t find a contractor to do it. These pulls were typically very short notice, like 20 mins before you had to get in your car and race across town so clients wouldn’t be waiting.

      The issue was the coordinator (who worked literally 20 feet away in the same office) would send emails with “FIELD WORK APPROVED:OFICE SHIFT CANCELED FOR [date]” as the subject line. The email would just be a form and the scant details of the assignment would often indicate that I’m not a good fit for/literally didn’t have the skills to do the work. I’m AuDHD and would interpret the emails super literally and freak out, and my boss (separate from coordinator) finally told me that the email “doesn’t mean you have to take it in those circumstances”. I asked how was I supposed to know when it was as meant literally or not, and that it bothered me that it didn’t present an opportunity to have a dialogue with the coordinator to figure out if it would even be ethical to take he job.

      What I ended up doing was meeting with the coordinator and asking if she would mind just asking me to come to her office when she wanted to pull me. If I can get all the info and ask the questions I need to about what the job entails in 5 mins, it would save me boatloads of anxiety and I’d be much more likely to say yes, and would save a bunch of time drafting email and waiting for a response. I also told her that I don’t do well with last minute changes to my routines (AuDHD, lol), but assignments like X, Y, and Z are in my wheelhouse so if a few days before she still hasn’t filled something like that, feel free to pull me for those and I’ll be happy to do it. I finished with saying that I’m happy to help out and wanted to have a positive relationship with her instead of dreading seeing her name in my inbox, apologized for my quirks but asked if she’d be willing to work around them.

      Luckily she was willing to, and we worked together adequately. I still said no to some things, mostly when she couldn’t answer critical questions that would have impacted whether I could ethically accept the work, but I ended up covering more than I had been willing to do before. She would have been within her rights to tell me no and keep doing her email thing, but it was better for all involved and I appreciated her flexibility. (She eventually “moved on” after an absolute shitshow she caused that upset some high-profile clients. (She wasn’t vetting jobs and was sending unqualified people and it finally blew up in her face.)

      tl;dr: If your communication preferences are not flexible because of disability reasons, then definitely don’t tie yourself in knots for someone else’s preferences. But if you can remove communication friction to get better outcomes, it can be worth being flexible and will be very appreciated.

      Reply ↓
    4. Fluffy Fish*

      I always approach things as if I’m initiating the communication, I try to do it in a way that works for them. I want them to do something for me so I’m going to grease the wheels in any way I can to get a good outcome.

      There’s also room for compromise – sch as have that in person meeting but take your notes and follow up with a summary email to make sure everyone is on the same page.

      Reply ↓
    5. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      It may help to distinguish between personal preferences and requirements or strong norms that exist for a business reason. So for example, it’s effectively a requirement to have a routine (phone, zoom or in-person) check-in with each of my direct reports. there is a genuine business cost to doing that over email because I need to be able to hear tone, give feedback in a discussion-oriented way, and get off-the-cuff reactions to questions. Similarly it’s a strong norm for me to get expense approvals or legal advice via email because I really need written documentation, even if our budget approver or lawyer would rather do it verbally.

      But if it’s just “Joe would rather talk on the phone but Kim would rather email for a routine discussion where it doesn’t matter” – I’d aim for balance. Nothing wrong with using your preferred style by default, but be open to theirs some of the time. If there’s a power dynamic, the balance may slightly shift in favor of who has more power, but in a healthy work environment that power dynamic shouldn’t be “Joe is more senior so every communication must be in Joe’s preferred style.”

      Reply ↓
    6. Hyaline*

      I’d say hierarchy and/or established norms (you are new and coming into norms that may have already made certain styles the typical setup), unless there are reasons of practicality at play, and then some compromise might have to be reached. For example, your manager might prefer face to face but frequency, timing, or complexity of message could make that a problem for the other person–“I’m often in the field when you want to meet, so stuff gets pushed off that probably shouldn’t–could you start by sending an email so I can get started on the problem and we’ll follow up in person when I can schedule it?” or “I’ll be following up on the meeting with an email laying out our action items to make sure we’re on the same page; sometimes our meetings are so productive that I miss something!”

      Reply ↓
  63. Milo*

    Always interested in questions here about performance reviews. I’ve been in my career for over a decade and I’m now management level and I think I’ve received two annual reviews, ever, and the last one was a disaster of a 360 where I had to get HR involved to tell my boss that’s absolutely not a way to give a review, ever. I’d say the rest of the time I’ve worked for people who continually tell me they really “should” give me a review but don’t have time. Since I’ve had reports for the last 5 years I have always made the time to do an annual review even if it’s a 20 minute thing and I make my own criteria.

    Obviously I’ve never worked anywhere where reviews are tied to raises (I have never worked anywhere where regular raises are a thing lol), so I don’t understand why companies tie themselves to these systems where they have to neg half their employees to avoid raises. Is this just a symptom of big orgs? It just seems so stress inducing for everyone.

    How many people here work under a numbered review system with compensation tied to rating? Does it actually work anywhere?

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      What makes you think they have to neg their employees? There’s a difference between an objective evaluation and a GE-in-the-90s bell-curve rank-and-yank exercise.

      I’ve worked for 2 companies that did really good reviews that tied to salary. One was a defense contractor, the other was a grocery store – so this can be in any industry.

      The company needs to provide performance categories and a rubric (for the category “works neatly and safely”, the rating of “meets expectations” = xyz). The raise amounts are going to depend on the overall company budget and the office/store/unit budget, and somebody in HR & finance has a formula that they turn the crank on to determine the raise.

      A well-managed company will have the right processes and judgement to know whether a unit with consistently high ratings is actually doing well objectively, or if it’s just grade inflation run amok. And they will also know that it’s wrong to penalize employees in a unit with artificial bell curves if they are all exceeding expectations. Those are the units that will provide the best word-of-mouth advertising & highest customer satisfaction, and those are also the units that will provide cadre staff for expansion, or emergency back-fill when another unit falls into trouble.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah I think we hear about the bell-curve review processes on this blog because they are uniquely crappy, but they’re not the norm at all (and I mean, they demonstrably don’t work, so they are unlikely to become the norm). I’ve never encountered that in 15 years of work at lots of different orgs. It only happens at places with weird cultures. I’d say I most often see the reverse: low and mediocre employees are barely counseled and never let go. That said, I’d say in half my jobs, mostly the more professional ones, there was an annual review conversation of some kind, often that was tied to what was essentially a COLA disguised as a merit raise, with a few standouts being promoted at that time. One place I worked had bonuses but it was always a weird format because most of my roles have been at nonprofits.

        Reply ↓
    2. Cyndi*

      I’m not sure what you mean by the system “working,” but my last job was on a system like that–the range for annual raises was something like 2-6% and you landed somewhere in there based on your annual eval. When what would’ve been my last eval date rolled around, I was on probation for a performance issue, which–fair! Deserved! But it disqualified me from receiving raises until the probation cleared, even cost of living increases. I thought it was frustrating and unfair that due to a temporary issue I was skipping over an annual COL raise and thus, even if I’d stayed there and gotten further annual increases, my pay would always have lagged a bit behind what it would’ve been otherwise.

      At that point I was frustrated with the company for a lot of other reasons that actually were out of my control, though, so this one might not have been reasonable.

      Reply ↓
    3. Lady Danbury*

      Having regular performance reviews is best practice for a well run employer, as often discussed here on AAM. It becomes problematic when companies have performance review processes in place because they know they should, but they either don’t want (or choose not) to do them well or they have ulterior motives for skewing them (avoiding raises/promotions, manager bias, etc). The issue isn’t regular performance reviews in general, it’s the fact that they’re not be used for their intended process.

      Reply ↓
      1. State worker*

        A symptom of the dysfunctional county department I worked in was they didn’t do their performance evaluations. The administration would send the managers emails telling them to do it, but they just wouldn’t do it. So everyone always passed probation and no one ever got fired. There was no accountability for anyone. That apparently was not the norm in other departments.

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    4. Hlao-roo*

      I mentioned this on the previous post, but I have worked for large companies that have annual reviews where employees are rated on a 1-5 scale, in theory. In practice, no one ever gets a 1 or a 5, and most people got a 3. But the companies weren’t “negging half their employees to avoid raises.” I got a raise every single year I worked for a large company, even the year I was rated a 2! The raises were on a sliding scale where a “2” rating meant a lower raise than a “3” or a “4,” and they were usually in the 2% – 4% range. Like Alton Brown’s Evil Twin mentioned, raises also depended on how well the company did that year and probably some calculations by HR/finance/the manager, so it wasn’t as simple as a 2 rating = a 2% raise.

      From my perspective this system isn’t great but it generally works fine.

      Reply ↓
  65. Lilian Field*

    Removed because this is the work thread, but please feel free to post it on this weekend’s non-work thread (which goes up around 7 pm ET tonight).

    Reply ↓
  66. Black Coffee Enjoyer*

    Aimless vent, but: I interviewed with a local company for a fairly niche job a couple of months ago. They rejected me with the feedback that I “interviewed extremely poorly,” and they refused to elaborate. I felt pretty hurt by this for a good while, because I’d felt like the interview had gone really well and I got along well with most of the people on the interview panel. And also, saying someone “interviewed extremely poorly” is really unprofessional IMO. So it left me with a lot of self-doubt for a while: I thought I’d come in dressed professionally, had solid answers prepared for most of the questions I’d received, obviously didn’t bring up religion or politics or anything… what went wrong?

    Ever since then, I’ve been getting at least 3 LinkedIn messages a day for this specific gig. It’s in office and pretty far from a reasonable commuting distance from any of the major metros around here. So by now they have to have interviewed and rejected basically everyone within commuting distance that has the skillset required. I have no idea why, and I don’t really have any way or interest in finding out, but that’s telling me it’s more a them problem than a me problem. That takes something off my shoulders.

    Just a vent. Feel free to ignore me.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Yeah, I think the decidedly unconstructive feedback was red flag enough. But if the fact apparently no one is up to their impenetrably lofty standards is what it takes to let it go, that works.

      Reply ↓
      1. Black Coffee Enjoyer*

        Well, I had a family emergency a little while before that, so I was certainly in a more emotionally vulnerable state than usual. You’re right, though!

        Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      Holy shit that’s just straight up mean. I’m so sorry. It sounds like you gave a universally professional interview.

      Reply ↓
      1. Black Coffee Enjoyer*

        I know! I could identify one question I might’ve been a little weak on, but IMO saying someone interviewed “very poorly” implies they suck so much (for whatever reason) that you should either ghost or give the formulaic “we have moved ahead with other candidates, best of luck to you” and hope they go away. Or if they’re not a total creep/weirdo, some polite feedback maybe at best. I understand why companies avoid doing that, and they don’t NEED to, but “you interviewed very poorly” is the professional world equivalent of cutting someone off in traffic and giving them the finger IMO.

        I would never do a “name and shame” type post anywhere publicly, but if someone I knew said they were interviewing there, I’d relate my story to ‘em.

        Reply ↓
    3. Fluffy Fish*

      Congratulations on not getting this job!

      I promise you it’s a nightmare, this company is a nightmare, and all signs point to them being a steaming dumpster fire of dysfunction.

      Reply ↓
    4. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      “interviewed very poorly” sounds rude and unfair in your case.
      It’s very rarely a professional comment to make to anyone, maybe if the interviewee abjectly bombed subject matter questions, or was scruffy/grubby in appearance, kept picking their nose, addressed only the white males, focused on the women’s chests etc

      Reply ↓
      1. JustaTech*

        I’ve had exactly one candidate who I would say “interviewed very poorly” – he showed up in clothes that looked like they’d been on the floor for a week, said that his greatest weakness was that he was “unmotivated” and that “all these jobs go to Asian kids anyway, so why bother?”
        And even that guy we wouldn’t have actually said to him “you interviewed poorly”! If we’d said anything it would have been more generic or more constructive.

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    5. Yes And*

      There is absolutely no justification for that “feedback.” It doesn’t provide you anything you can actually work on. It doesn’t help them refine their goals and processes. It serves no purpose whatsoever except to be mean. Even if you showed up drunk, dressed in beachwear, and told them you would fix their company by selling it to Elon Musk, there is no use to saying you “interviewed extremely poorly.” I have interviewed people who tanked and would never give this “feedback.” Scare quotes because it isn’t even really feedback, it’s just them making themselves feel big at your expense. Don’t give them another second’s thought. You dodged a bullet.

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    6. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      “Dear Black Coffee Enjoyer:

      “Our apologies, our previous communication had a typo. We meant to write, ‘*WE* interview extremely poorly.’ We appreciate the request for details, but we hope you can understand why we can’t elaborate.”

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    7. Brevity*

      Fifty cents says whomever is supposed to be doing the rejection emails handed it off to an intern with a sheaf of interviewers’ notes, without training the intern that you don’t actually say “you interviewed really poorly”, who not only sent that out to more than one person, but also confused you with another applicant, and you weren’t even supposed to get that email anyway.

      Reply ↓
      1. Black Coffee Enjoyer*

        I genuinely considered that they could’ve sent a rejection meant for someone else to me, but I doubt it. Within a few days the hiring manager or internal recruiter would’ve started to wonder whether or not I accepted the offer they thought they’d sent, and tried to sort it out, wouldn’t they?

        My assumption is that someone on the interview panel is unreasonable, has a very specific way they expect any candidate to answer questions, and rejects anyone who doesn’t fit their mold 100%. Or they lowball anyone who gets an offer. Really, there could be a ton of reasons. I’m getting pretty curious to what happens on the company side in this situation – the opening’s been up for like nine months, and by now they’ve got to have considered everyone remotely qualified in commuting distance (it’s an on-site gig, which I am fine with).

        Reply ↓
  67. DaniG*

    Sorry this is an oddly specific question. I work in a role similar to a project manager where I have a lot of requests coming in from a bunch of departments that don’t communicate with each other. My manager oversees overall strategy but isn’t involved in my day to day work. Sometimes I will be told I need to get a task done really quickly, and this can require a lot of work to accommodate on my end; I will have to move meetings around, delay other teams’ tasks, and sometimes work through lunch or quite late into the night. I don’t mind doing any of this if it’s truly necessary; urgent things do sometimes just come up in our field and I know that’s part of the job.

    However, sometimes I’ll be given an urgent deadline and I’m not sure how urgent it actually is. For example, a team recently sent me a request and said their VP wanted it handled by the next morning. I ended up staying late at the office and rescheduling a personal outing in order to get it done by the requested time. I found out later that the project was not due to the client for another week, but that I’d been given that deadline because that particular VP “just likes things to be done a week in advance.” The other day, a writer brought me a request and was adamant that he needed it handled within an hour. I scrambled to get it done, putting aside other requests I’d been planning to handle during that hour and turning down a teammate’s lunch invitation. I found out later that there had been nothing particularly urgent about this request either; it was just that this writer’s boss had told him he could go home for the day when the project was done, and he really wanted to leave.

    I want to make sure I make clear that I’m happy to accommodate tasks that are truly urgent without becoming a complete doormat. Any suggestions for scripts I can use to ask teams why the deadline they’re giving me is so tight? And/or ways to tell people that I may not be able to meet their tight deadline if it seems arbitrary? Or is that a judgment I should stay away from trying to make at all?

    Reply ↓
    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      “This task will take x hrs to complete. With the other tasks on already booked in my calendar, it looks like I’ll be able to finish by Monday at 2:00. Will that work?”

      Make them make the case that their unscheduled request is worth bumping other people.

      Reply ↓
    2. Reba*

      I feel like you need your manager’s advice and/or the perspectives of others who have a good length of experience at your workplace, because this has to do with company culture as well as the individual players and politics. It would be good to talk to your manager about this, even in kind of an open ended way, to know if she will have your back on this issue.

      Reply ↓
    3. Slow Gin Lizz*

      When you are given these deadlines, do you just drop everything and work on the task without asking any questions? Do they say something like, “Emergency! Must be done in an hour, no exceptions whatsoever!”? Or do you think they would understand if you said, “I have a report that I need to finish for a meeting later today. I can get this done by tomorrow at 11 but won’t have time for it this afternoon.” Would they think you weren’t a team player if you did this? What if you had a legitimate schedule conflict that would preclude you from doing the task, like a doctor’s appt you’d scheduled months ago and really needed to go to? Would they understand that? I’m sure they all know you’re working on a lot of projects, but do they understand that sometimes you’re going to have conflicting deadlines and their project, which might seem urgent to them, is going to be less urgent than someone else’s project?

      If their deadlines really are arbitrary (which it sure sounds like they are), there’s probably a lot more wiggle room than they’re letting on, so why not give them some pushback to find out how much wiggle room?

      And I’d really hesitate to put off personal events outside of work to do these “urgent” tasks. Ok, you were able to reschedule an evening outing to do the work, but what if you really couldn’t do that? I recall the phrase “Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.” In this case, it’s more like, “Arbitrary deadlines on your part do not constitute urgency on my part.”

      And maybe talk to your boss about what to do with conflicting deadlines. I know you said she doesn’t manage your day-to-day, but she might be able to weigh in on the situation and have your back if someone gets mad at you for having boundaries.

      Reply ↓
  68. britecyrcle*

    I just want to say how grateful I am to federal workers who are holding down the fort. I had to submit a white paper today and was having technical difficulties in the federal web portal – called their helpdesk and 1) got through to real person quickly, and 2) they were instantly able to identify the issue and help me correct it, and 3) they sounded genuinely happy for me when I successfully submitted. I know she was one of many, but the interaction was completely typical – competent, efficient, collegial – and that’s amazing in this atypical and stressful time. Hope you all know how much you are appreciated.

    Reply ↓
    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      I would like to add to this. I mailed my tax return earlier this week, and the woman working at the USPS was just lovely – friendly and helpful. She seemed genuinely happy to help.

      Reply ↓
    2. Fluffy Fish*

      100%. The way they are being treated is disgusting. I don’t know where the idea that gov workers are lazy or incompetent or leeching of taxpayers (hint they also pay taxes) came from. Usually issues are related to the bureaucracy which they have zero control over.

      The vast majority of gov worker take very seriously that they are there to serve the public.

      Reply ↓
  69. RagingADHD*

    PSA from my job: It’s proxy season!

    In case you’re not really into reading all the material you get sent by your retirement plan, there are some things you should be aware of going on with large, publicly traded companies – and if you own shares, you get input.

    Every year, public companies have to have an annual meeting to do things like re-elect the board of directors, approve the executive compensation plan, and other routine items. They must also put to a vote any proposals by shareholders that meet certain procedural requirements.

    In the past, shareholder pressure helped influence companies to behave better, both environmentally and socially. In the last couple of years, and particularly this year, shareholders are pressuring companies to scrap a lot of those improvements. There are entire investment companies that are actually political groups organized to buy stock for this purpose.

    You remember the recent news story about Costco refusing to eliminate its DEI programs? That was a shareholder proposal that got defeated by vote. Many other companies don’t want the publicity around such public votes, so they negotiate with the pressure group behind the scenes to get the proposal withdrawn – often caving or making significant concessions.

    Some of these proposals are obviously unhinged rants. Others are more sneaky, and couch their intent in terms like “risk” or “divisiveness” or ironically, “discrimination.”

    Some of these proposals are ones I’ve seen at work and in my own personal mail:

    – demanding the company investigate and commission a third-party report on the risks of “politicized debanking.” This is a conspiracy theory that financial institutions are freezing and closing the bank accounts of conservative leaning customers. This is not happening. Banks do normally freeze or close accounts of individuals under investigation for financial crimes, though.

    – demanding the company investigate/ report on the risks of “discriminatory” programs- this may be anything from DEI, to applying the Rooney rule in board and executive recruitment, to excluding all religious organizations from charitable gift matching.

    – demanding “democratization” of the Board election process by putting all unsolicited director nominations to a full vote to promote “diversity”. In reality, diverse boards are the result of careful, targeted recruitment and directors must be extensively vetted for conflicts of interest. This proposal would simply allow the largest shareholders (usually big hedge funds) to stack the board with their cronies.

    And here’s a good one: a proposal to require disclosure in the Proxy of the CEO pay ratio compared to the median employee. A lot of companies do this, and it’s good practice. There’s really no strong argument against it except that they know it looks bad.

    Even if you only have a small number of shares, they count – and every year companies get all kinds of analyst reports of how popular various proposals are, even if they didn’t pass. Leadership pays attention.

    Some meetings have already happened, but there are still a lot between now and May. So go read the fine print, and vote!

    Reply ↓
  70. Justin*

    My job is giving my very small department real support. Just very excited.

    When have you been surprised to seem your team or work supported?

    Reply ↓
  71. Searching*

    Followup to my post last week: The local library is a great place to change clothes for an interview. No car acrobatics or dirty gas station bathroom needed.

    Reply ↓
    3. Charlotte Lucas*

      The downtown branch of my local library specifically has bathroom stalls big enough for clothing changes.

      Reply ↓
    4. The Prettiest Curse*

      The public bathrooms in mid-to-large size hotels can be good for this too – I’ve done this a couple of times. There are so many people going through hotel lobbies for various reasons that it’s really unlikely anyone will notice your change of clothes.

      Reply ↓
  72. body neutrality*

    I am a person “of size.” I support the idea of “fat activism” generally, but it’s not something I like to discuss with others. I’m also not comfortable claiming the “fat” label for myself, largely due to bullying and trauma. I’m working on accepting myself more in therapy, but it’s a long, long, journey for me.

    I have a newer coworker who is in a similar size range as me. She makes more comments out loud that are inclusive, and I’m happy for her, but for myself, I’d rather not discuss my own size or my feelings about it at work. or draw attention to it.

    I will make gentle redirecting comments generally, like that we shouldn’t comment on others bodies or food choices, etc when they come up, thankfully rarely.

    I recently came across the idea of body neutrality which is more useful to me. I think my coworker is more on the body positivity side.

    I don’t want to crush my coworker’s enthusiasm, but I don’t want to be the fat person poster child at work either.

    Ideas for how to bring this up while still supporting her and not having to disclose my whole history?

    If it was a regular colleague, I would just say that I don’t want to discuss my appearance at work. I am happy that she’s comfortable discussing it, even though I’m not about myself. I want her to be comfortable bringing things up but not implicating me, if that makes sense.
    I will call things out when I see them, but I want my own advocacy to be outside of work, or at least not when other coworkers are around.

    Reply ↓
    1. Andrew*

      “If it was a regular colleague, I would just say that I don’t want to discuss my appearance at work.”

      By “regular colleague,” do you mean if she was “straight sized.”?

      I know you are concerned about crushing your coworker’s enthusiasm, but you have to be more direct with her as opposed to making “gentle” redirecting comments. You should firmly say how you don’t want to hear comments like that in the workplace, and that while you respect her activism, it should be something that is done outside of work and that you don’t feel comfortable. You have the right to feel comfortable and safe at work.

      And if she still keeps doing it, talk to her manager or with HR.

      Reply ↓
    2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Can you say more about how she’s engaging with you on this? Like is she making comments in general, or is she directing them toward you/expecting you to join her?

      The latter is more straightforward to shut down and I think something like “I’m happy for you but I prefer not to talk about this at work, please stop bringing it up with me” would be fair. You don’t have to share your perspective if you don’t want to, and you can deliver the message in a friendly and kind way with a positive tone.

      If it’s happening in more general/group contexts but not directed at you – it’s totally understandable to not want to hear that at work, and this does sound like a lot of body-talk. The path of least resistance might be to just remove yourself from the situation when those comments are happening, especially if you’re not in a position of authority with her and/or don’t want this to be your hill to die on. If you do want to take it up with her, a discreet conversation pointing out that body talk at work is tricky for a lot of people for a lot of reasons, and asking her to tone it down, would be my approach. You can again do that in a friendly and supportive way. But this also doesn’t have to be your problem if you don’t want it to be; tuning it out and declining to engage is also a fair response.

      Reply ↓
    3. Fluffy Fish*

      As an outsider – she is a regular colleague!

      So if you’re a regular reader hear sometimes you’ll see posts along the lines of people not wanting to disclose things that other people actively advocate for/against.

      Its the same – being a member of a marginalized group, does not mean you always have to carry the flag for that group and also does not mean you always have to help members of the group carry their own flag.

      Please tell her you don’t want to discuss your appearance at work – you can even change it to I have a personal rule against talking about my appearance at work – whatever wording you’re comfortable with.

      If you’re looking for a guarantee she will take it well – unfortunately there is none. But that’s not you’re problem. We’re all growup who are allowed to set boundaries and aren’t’ responsible for other peoples reactions to them.

      Reply ↓
      1. body neutrality*

        Thank you, to be clearer, I meant a regular colleague as someone I don’t know very well. We are still acquaintances, but becoming more like work friends.

        I don’t mind if she talks about it, it’s more the implication that I’m outwardly agreeing with her I don’t like.

        I also meant that when I bring things up generally, I will call it out. So if someone made a food policing comment, I would say something along the lines of “people are free to make their own food choices,” as opposed to something like “please don’t body shame people.” I’m aware that I’m still the “fat”person saying this, but I’m not the “Hi, I’m living proudly out loud as a fat person saying this!!”
        I also meant that I will speak up in situations like that, but that otherwise I’m not bringing up my size.

        A better analogy might be like if I was bisexual but didn’t want to be out at work, but my coworker is. She’s out celebrating it, and I wish I could be, but I need to keep quiet at work. I still like the celebration, but don’t want to be called out. This analogy breaks down because I can’t hide my size but I don’t want to be loudly calling attention to it.

        We’re close enough that I am comfortable bringing this up, I’m just really struggling with the script. It’s extra hard because just having the conversation means I have to talk about it. It’s becoming a pattern, and I want to nip this in the bud.

        Reply ↓
        1. body neutrality*

          I also think this will be good practice for me to talk about my own size with someone who is supportive, but it’s very new for me. I’ve never had a real conversation at work with anyone about this beyond the “please don’t comment on my/others body/ies” type ones with people who made sizeist or ableist comments, and wasn’t that close to.

          Reply ↓
          1. Lilian Field*

            I love your “body neutrality” framing. I think body neutrality is a well-established enough concept that perhaps you could use it to help you in your conversation with your colleague? Do you think she would respond well to this framing?
            Also, may I ask if she’s kind of drawing you into these conversations in the presence of other people, or just saying these things to you privately? Does the presence of other people change how you feel about these interactions at all?

            Reply ↓
            1. body neutrality*

              It’s been some of both. I would still be ok talking to her about it privately.

              I think she would respond well to the framing.

              I think it’s more that she’s just really comfortable with herself, so it comes up naturally for her, whereas it doesn’t for me.

              Our office culture is generally accepting-ish in theory but like all inclusion efforts, there is more to be done. We are decent on gender/sexuality for the most part. We theoretically care about other identities, but they vary in terms of support/awareness/performative vs actual support.

              Reply ↓
    4. RagingADHD*

      “I’m glad you feel comfortable discussing your feelings on this, but I do not want to center my appearance in work conversations.”

      Honestly if she’s including you without your permission in “what about us fat people?” type remarks, I think her enthusiasm does need to be checked a bit.

      “Your enthusiasm is great, but please don’t speak for me without my consent. You are putting me on the spot and I don’t appreciate it.”

      Reply ↓
    5. Hyaline*

      I’m a little confused about what’s happening here. You say you’re fine with her sharing her views about herself, but that you don’t want to discuss it, but you don’t say if that has happened–that you’ve been made to discuss something you’re not comfortable discussing. Is she actually pulling you into these conversations, or are you just worried that it could happen? If it’s the latter, I think you’re best served not borrowing trouble.

      The thing is, I don’t think there’s any “shutting down” to be done here if she’s leaving you out of it. I kinda feel like she’s allowed to say what she likes about herself, just as much as you’re allowed to NOT say what you’d like! There are exceptions to this, like if she’s using the occasion of sharing a meal to loudly share her views on food, or is comparing herself to others–but if she just shares her views, it’s kinda hard to say she should stop even if it’s a subject you have complex feelings about. She absolutely shouldn’t be dragging you into it, though, and if she is repeatedly trying to do so, you can be more firm in having a conversation with her! What you articulated in your second to last paragraph is perfect: “I love that you’re comfortable discussing this, but I’m not. I don’t want to talk about my appearance, weight, health, or shoe size at work–thanks for understanding.” Just raise it firmly, in person, one-on-one–she’ll probably understand.

      Reply ↓
      1. body neutrality*

        Thank you. Sorry this is confusing. I’m ok with her talking about herself, but sometimes she says things in a way that imply “me and my fat buddy here totally agree on this”, which is true in that I agree in principle, but don’t want her speaking for me and calling attention to me.

        I like how Fluffy Fish said it above that marginalized people aren’t responsible for representing everyone.

        I want to convey that I support her publicly advocating for herself and set boundaries about not speaking for me. I don’t think it’s intentional, but I’d like to make that clear with her.

        I’m also hoping maybe someday I’ll be more comfortable joining her more purposefully and loudly but I’m not there yet. I’d like to keep the door open to that possibility if I can.

        Reply ↓
        1. Csethiro Ceredin*

          I wonder if you can say something along the lines of “When I’m here I’m more comfortable being very low-key about… my own body/size/fatness/whatever term you prefer… so while I love your enthusiasm, that’s not quite where I am and I’d prefer not to engage with this stuff at work. Thanks for understanding!”

          Reply ↓
  73. Andrew*

    What advice to you have for an internal candidate that got barely any feedback or help after a rejection?

    My work (I work for a large corporation) offers internships to associates as an opportunity to learn about other departments, build new skills, network and potentially get a permanent position after the internship is over. I applied for one a couple months ago with a department that I have a strong passion for, but didn’t hear back for awhile. After talking to my manager and leadership within my current department along with the liaison for the internship program, they finally sent rejection emails, and I got one without even getting an interview. I emailed the hiring manager wishing them the best with their new hire, and asking for feedback on how I could be a stronger candidate in the future. It was my understanding that while feedback requests are often ignored for external candidates, internal candidates should get feedback along with potentially a meeting with the hiring manager and my current manager to discuss training opportunities and a plan for moving forward. Long story short, my questions were completely ignored, and all that hiring manager wrote back to me was a suggestion to join their department’s Slack channel as a resource. It looked like he had no interest in further correspondence, so I thanked him and that was that. I also have no way of running into them in-person because they work in a different office in a different state.

    Where do I go moving forward? I want to better my skills and be a stronger candidate, but I got absolutely no help from that hiring manager, and when I met with my manager to discuss it, they obviously didn’t have much they could offer me since it was with a completely different department.

    Reply ↓
    1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      I’m sorry, I just don’t think you’re going to get any more direct feedback via this hiring process. Join the Slack channel and look elsewhere for ways to improve your candidacy. (The slack channel is actually a HUGE offering – it’s a way to get direct insight into what the people already doing this work think about and talk about. You’ll have to do more reading between the lines than if someone told you directly what to work on, but it’s a pretty powerful pathway to figure this out.)

      In general internal candidates should get more feedback, but this sounds like a case where a) it’s a very large company where those relationships between departments might be more distant; and b) this is a very specific type of program where the hiring manager may have a large volume of internal applicants and can’t realistically provide custom feedback on all of them. If you were one of only one or two internal candidates and you knew and overlapped work with the hiring manager, that’s more of the context where you should expect highly personalized feedback.

      It’s also an internship and fairly or unfairly – and very much to the disservice of interns – hiring processes for interns are often radically less rigorous than for FTE’s. This may be more of a nice professional dev offering from your company when it works out for folks, but not a huge priority for them to invest management resources in coaching.

      Reply ↓
      1. Andrew*

        Thank you for the reply. Your last paragraph resonated very heavily with me. If anything, I would have thought that since this wasn’t even an actual position (I would still be getting paid my regular wage) and more a professional development opportunity, there would be more incentive to help someone who clearly wants to develop and isn’t just going for a higher paying position if they didn’t get the role. Sadly, outside of those internships, its HARD in this company to get experience outside of my current role (and not for lack of trying, I keep asking for additional projects or even volunteer opportunities outside the office.)

        Reply ↓
    2. Educator*

      This is 100% not about you. Honestly, if I have never even interviewed someone, I don’t have meaningful feedback on how they can be a stronger applicant in the future–certainly not enough for a meeting. I glanced at their resume, there were others that lined up better with the essential qualifications, I moved on.

      If this is an area that you are passionate about, do some networking outside your company with other people who are local to you. Take a class. See if you can find a related volunteer gig. Don’t put all the pressure on this one manager.

      When a company has internship programs like this, some managers are going to be way more invested than others. Supporting interns takes a huge amount of time and energy, way more than regular employees for much less benefit. Supporting applicants on top of that is not something most of us can swing.

      Reply ↓
  74. BungleCord*

    Is there a way to talk to a coworker who does not *stop* walking around?

    I have PTSD and I hate it when people are behind me. I work at a desk on the end of a row so people have to walk behind me to get out of the office area.

    There is one guy who constantly gets up. I question whether he does any work because he walks behind me 10-15 times per hour. He gets coffee and water an average of twice per hour.

    We have different managers. There’s no way to move the cubicles and there’s not a cube I could potentially move to.

    Other people in my row don’t do this as frequently so I’m not as aggravated by them, I expect people might get up once or twice an hour to exit the office area.

    Please help, this is really bothering me!

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      Unfortunately, I don’t know of a polite way to say “stop getting up from your desk so often.”

      Depending on how seating works in your office, could you potentially swap desks with him? He would be closer to coffee/water/wherever else he goes, and you would be deeper into the row so he would no longer walk behind you! You could also ask to switch with someone else who sits deeper in the row than he does, or potentially with someone in a different row. But this only works if your office/respective managers approve of you swapping desk locations.

      If swapping desks isn’t an option, would having a little mirror on your desk lessen the hatred of people walking behind you? Some people at my workplace have them but I don’t know if that would be good enough for you.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        I agree it’s probably a better move to try to change your own situation vs having this guy change what he’s doing. Can you, I don’t know, move back closer to the wall so he goes in front of you vs behind, or put something behind you so your back doesn’t feel exposed, or yes swap or rearrange desks – or something like this? Maybe you can work from a conference room more or just get up with him every time …

        Reply ↓
        1. BungleCord*

          So my seating area isn’t a cube, it’s a long desk that can’t rotate. My only option for sitting is to have my back towards the main traffic lane.

          Reply ↓
    2. GigglyPuff*

      They do have cubicle “doors”, sometimes attached, sometimes like a room divider. You could see if you could request one of those, even asking as a reasonable accommodation.

      Reply ↓
    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      So he’s getting up 4 times an hour, and others are doing it twice?

      Can you time your breaks to when he gets up? 30 seconds of standing up and stretching, or going to get water yourself, or whatever? Just anything else other than sitting while he walks by.

      Reply ↓
        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          Sorry, misread your post.

          So basically this guy is just pacing behind you. He may as well not even have a desk.

          Is the space laid out such that there’s another row he could walk down? Could you say “Fergus, sorry to bring this up, but I get distracted when people walk behind me. You’re going back and forth a lot – could I ask you to loop around to the next row at least some of the time?”

          You do NOT need to say ‘PTSD’ to him.

          Reply ↓
          1. RagingADHD*

            OP said it’s the only route to the kitchen / out of the shared workspace. They can’t tell their coworker not to leave the room.

            Reply ↓
        2. Academic Physics*

          oh wow I misread that as well, that is a lot of breaks. My only thought is if you could put something behind you, so between you and him that could help? even a coat rack with some bulky sweaters might not go amiss?

          Reply ↓
    4. Hyaline*

      I think it may help to reframe this that, just as you have a very valid reason for preferring he NOT get up so often, he may have a good reason for doing so. Perhaps he has chronic pain, or an injury that causes issues if he sits still too long, or something related to mental health–you don’t know and probably can’t know, so assume he has a very real and very good reason.

      If you think of it that way–that even if you asked him to stop getting up, his answer would be “I really can’t do that”–are there ways your setup could change? Could your desks be oriented differently, could you have a mirror that let you see behind you, could you swap cubicles? Maybe he’d like to swap to be closer to the water :P I know you say there’s “no way to change cubicles” but I think it would be totally reasonable to raise with your manager, FWIW, that you are uncomfortable with a lot of movement around you and hate having people behind you where you can’t see them, and is there any way your spot could be reoriented or moved–if not now, at the soonest potential time (say, next time someone leaves).

      Reply ↓
    5. RagingADHD*

      I mean, you can’t. His work habits and beverage habits are his own & his manager’s business. For all you know, he may have an accommodation need, or be so productive that his coffee runs don’t matter. (And I’m not sure about the nature of your job, but most office jobs don’t consider getting water to be “break time” if you aren’t loitering.)

      Can you rearrange your cubicle and angle your monitor so that your back is not to the opening? Or can you get a mirror to see behind you, if that helps?

      Either of those, or even swapping cubicles with someone, would be reasonable asks of management.

      Reply ↓
      1. HannahS*

        Yeah, this would be my thought. Maybe there’s a way to rotate the desk so that it’s facing sideways, so the cubicle opening isn’t behind you.

        Reply ↓
      2. BungleCord*

        There isn’t a way to move or reorient my desk. It’s fixed and my only option is to have my back to traffic behind me.

        I don’t think a mirror would help but I could try. I’m really triggered just by the presence of someone behind me, it’s not about knowing they are coming, it’s just about them being behind me.

        Reply ↓
        2. RagingADHD*

          I know there isn’t a vacant space to move to, but what about swapping with someone at the other end of the table so there’s overall less traffic?

          Or possibly getting an accommodation to go hybrid, or sit part of the day in a focus room?

          Reply ↓
    6. WellRed*

      But is he just walking behind you (albeit A Lot) to get somewhere or is he standing behind you? If everyone does this, how have you managed your aggravation with others? Is there something else about this particular coworker that you don’t like? Without an option to physically move, you’ll have to grit your teeth or try to reframe your annoyance.

      Reply ↓
      1. MiloSpiral*

        Or, a reasonable accommodation for BungleCord. If this is triggering a medical condition, I think you’re well within your rights to request one! If your desk can’t physically move, can you get a different workstation?

        Reply ↓
        1. MiloSpiral*

          Sorry, just re-read BungleCord’s original post and saw that there’s no other cubicle to switch to. In that case I still wonder if it’s possible to switch cubes with someone else, so that you can have your back to a wall. Seems like a reasonable accommodation to me!

          Reply ↓
  75. I'm the Phoebe in Any Group*

    I was applying for jobs through LinkedIn, personalizing my cover letter. Twice in one sitting, the jobs stopped accepting applications one hour after they were posted. Has this happened to anyone else?

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I was told not to apply through LinkedIn, but to use LinkedIn to identify potential ones, then go to the company website and find their own job posting. LinkedIn aggregates stuff and frequently isn’t up to date. Also a lot of hiring managers find applications through their own websites easier and there’s less risk to you that LinkedIn format somehow gets garbled by their website when transferred.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yeah, this sounds to me like the person who is putting up the posting might be clicking the wrong button (“one hour” instead of “one week” maybe?) when they are setting up the LinkedIn job ad. I second the suggestion to see if you can find the same job posted on the company website (best choice) or through a different job board, like Indeed or Monster.

        Reply ↓
    2. RagingADHD*

      They may have closed it because they were flooded with shotgun style applications. It is common for LinkedIn Easy Apply to get multiple thousands of applications in the first hour. Most of those are just people clicking on everything that pops up in their search results, regardless of whether it’s a relevant match or not.

      Reply ↓
  76. MiloSpiral*

    Freelancers/contractors, temperature check! I recently connected an internal client with a contractor, with whom my department has had a working relationship for many years. The contractor Cc’d me when he provided an estimate to the internal client. When the internal client asked what hours the contractor has worked so far, the contractor replied that the estimate included the 1.5 hours he’d already spent scoping out the project. He further explained that if the estimate was not approved, he wouldn’t charge for that time.

    I was surprised that my contractor planned not to charge for hours he’d already worked if the project weren’t to move forward. Is this a thing that happens in freelancing? It was only 1.5 hours, but still, work is work!

    Reply ↓
    1. weorinsoieur*

      Isn’t this work to provide an estimate more of a pitch? I would expect pitching to be unpaid, since the person providing the estimate is trying to make the case that they’re the best one to provide the service?

      Reply ↓
      1. MiloSpiral*

        Mm, not really. The internal client is not putting the project up for bid. The project in question involves a custom web application that the contractor built for my department, but that the internal client uses. The internal client wants to transfer some of the information from our web application to their own system. If they want to do that, working with my dept’s contractor is really the only option.

        Reply ↓
  77. L. Ron Jeremy*

    Lessons I learned to crush the behavioral question round.

    Honestly, at first, behavioral questions were my most hated round. I almost failed every time. I kept questioning the point of it. But finally, I understood: it’s just a round that tests how naturally you can tell your story. It’s not like a technical round where you can practice with real questions, or a phone screen where you don’t have to face people directly, it’s more like an interview where you need to act like an actor.

    First, you should clarify what the company expects candidates to show in the BQ round: your response must be very natural, just like a conversation, allowing the interviewer to see an energetic person. And you will not run out of stories, and can quickly respond even to unpredicted problems;
    Question prep: Your task is to have at least 10 topics that are as non-overlapping as possible, and of course, this also means that in the next step, you need to prepare 20 stories. I combined Glassdoor (more reviews from mid-sized companies and startups) with AMA Interview (for specific roles at big companies) to check the company’s historical behavioral questions for my reference. For example: Tell me about yourself? Tell me about a time you faced a challenge or conflict at work (or school)? How did you handle it? Describe a time when you worked on a team? What was your role, and what was the outcome? Tell me about a time you failed or made a mistake. What did you learn from it? Why are you interested in this role and this company?
    Story prep: I asked ChatGPT the question by this prompt: “What skills does the interviewer expect to see from my answer to this behavioral question, and can you give me a sample answer?” Then I’ll refine it with my own story.
    Scripts: Everyone knows the STAR method, but most sample answers online really only consist of four sentences. The structure of STAR is to be used because it helps you narrate clearly. However, you must make this story vivid, as if you are chatting with a friend who is unfamiliar with your work, ensuring that the listener understands. The key is to tell a story, not just to construct paragraphs using STAR.
    Practice: Randomly select some BQ questions and see if you can quickly answer questions you haven’t met with prepared stories. If you can’t answer a new question, either think about what you would do in that situation, or go back and dig into your own experiences to prepare a new story.

    Reply ↓
  78. Lilian Field*

    I hope this kind of question is ok to ask. It’s a bit niche.
    I am a professor, and I have so far been very happy with my choice of job. However, during the pandemic I developed neurological problems that sometimes interfere with my ability to talk for long periods of time. There’s a chance that I will have to find a new line of work.
    I’ve been considering getting a certificate in benefits planning (probably through the Cornell YTI Online program), to help people with disabilities apply for help from the government. I’m especially interested in helping teenagers with autism transition from childhood benefits to adult benefits. I can envision one day having a job, or building a practice, that mixed this kind of benefits planning with college planning, for students who were ready for college/interested in college…some kind of transition to adulthood program/support office, for autistic teenagers across different levels of need.
    Friends have been telling me that exploring a path as a benefits planner is probably a bad idea, because benefits are collapsing everywhere due to Trump’s influence. I am not sure whether this is so or not. Does anyone else have opinions or thoughts? TIA, and apologize if this question is too narrow.

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      I disagree that benefits are collapsing everywhere though I think some protections will be weakened. Good companies still need to attract good employees. However, I don’t know if getting a certificate in this will be worth the money but I’ll leave that to others who may have more insight.

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        Ugh I read your question wrong. If this is strictly to help students apply for government benefits, yeah, I’d hold off for now. But I still don’t think a certificate sounds worth it.

        Reply ↓
        1. Lilian Field*

          In my state, the certification lets you bill the Division of Vocational Rehabilitation (DVR). The DVR works with disabled teenagers to find work and to transition to adulthood more broadly.

          Reply ↓
    2. Educator*

      Just because the benefits go away (ughhh), the need for support for teenagers with autism group does not. Before you get a certification, it might be worth exploring who is helping young people with that transition right now. For example, the school districts where I have worked partner with nonprofits, group living centers, vocational specialists, etc. in addition to using government resources to help young people transition to adult life. You could definitely do some networking to get a sense of the lay of the land, and you may be able to try some work with this group out, even as a volunteer, for the cost of a background check before you invest in a certification program. Ask a few people on the special ed or social work teams at your district office if you can take them for coffee.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hyaline*

      I know this isn’t what you ask, but–are there also avenues to explore in terms of How You Professor, if you enjoy the work other than the potential for no longer being able to do long lectures? I know it varies widely depending on the field, but it’s not normal in my field any longer to talk for more than about ten minutes at a go during a class meeting. Even more traditionally lecture-based fields have experimented with “flipped classrooms” where material is provided to read/learn/listen at home and classtime is spent on practice, discussion, or hands-on work. I would also think that “I can no longer lecture for 75 minutes at a go but I’m good at the rest of my job” would fall squarely into accommodations territory. Again, I know it’s not what you asked about, but if you like the work–maybe there are ways to stay in the field and adapt it to what you need, perhaps even improving on what you’re doing over the long haul!

      Reply ↓
      1. Mimmy*

        This is a good point. Online teaching with a focus on asynchronous classes might be an option. For my most recent degree, I went to a fully online school and all classes were asynchronous. Coursework consisted of readings, weekly discussion boards and projects; rarely was there ever any synchronous class meetings, and even those were primarily discussions rather than straight lectures.

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  79. angledewick*

    I’ve been asked to train the ‘AI’ guy in how to do a lot of my job so that he can integrate generative AI into our work and semi-replace my job; any advice?

    I work for a tech company where the main, bigger office is in a Nordic country, and we’re a smaller outpost office (and, to be quite honest, often don’t get treated very well because of it). The person who’s job it is to look at how AI can replace some of the work that I do doesn’t actually know much about how to do the job itself, so it would realistically be teaching someone with very little experience a lot of different, new skills, while also working full time on the project doing 95% of the work where these skills are needed. The skills themselves have taken me about 10 years to learn, whilst on the job.

    The person in question is quite arrogant, and thinks that /everything/ I do could be replaced with AI (it can’t), and I’ve heard from others that they can be very difficult to deal with; they do things like intentionally talk over others in meetings as a bit of a shitty power-play. I asked my manager why they’re trying to get this person to learn lots and lots of new skills, when they could have someone who can already do the job learn the one skill of using AI, but just got a shrug in return. This just seems like such a big ask, and everyone seems to be underestimating the job that I do. I’ve been looking for a new job for quite a while, but it’s not a great time for the industry, and while I’ve had a couple of interviews, I’ve not managed to get a new one yet.

    Reply ↓
    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Fair warning, I’m burned out and have very few F’s left to give, so take my advice with a good dose of skepticism:

      Can you let Arrogant AI Dude take the lead? As in, only provide exactly what he asks for, a la malicious compliance and feigned ignorance.

      When he says, “I want the last 10 TPS” reports, just give him those even if you know that the last 100 provide crucial context and that there are supporting docs that are needed to make them make sense.

      You’re not the AI expert, so how would you know what they do and don’t need? As far as you know, AI can magically understand (make-up, hallucinate) the supporting docs, additional context, etc.

      Reply ↓
      1. Academic Physics*

        Yeah, and I’d put every response to the AI guy on a timer. If you want to slow walk this project I would respond to their emails 2 working days (schedule send is great) after you get it. Write up your response whenever, but don’t let this person take up too much of your time.

        Reply ↓
    2. Brevity*

      If it were me, I’d start by asking Mr. Arrogant, “What is my job?” and let him blow off on that for twenty minutes, then ask him how AI will replace all of that and let him blow off again for half an hour. You don’t have to actually listen to him, but it will give him the chance to listen to his own voice — his favorite thing — thereby currying his favor. At that point, you may be able to explain that your job includes a lot of other stuff such as Task 1, task 2 and task 3, and go from there.

      Reply ↓
    3. Cheap ass rolling with it*

      Are you being asked to train your replacement? Basically, once this guy makes the AI tool, you can be fired?

      AI tools don’t perform well if
      – there’s too little data
      – the data is noisy, or as they say garbage in/garbage out

      If you want to extend the lifetime of your job, drip the data to him in small amounts, make him ask for the data. Noisy data can be irrelevant data.

      Reply ↓
  80. NoName*

    Is „POV“ a term that is not appropriate at work? I received an employee newsletter today that is for Postmasters of Venice (let’s say we‘re a Venetian company that employs 1000 postmasters). It’s called „POV“ and that is the subject line. Is that odd or not?

    Reply ↓
    1. Generic Name*

      It’s maybe a little odd that they couldn’t think of a more descriptive subject line and just left it at 3 letters. But I’m not understanding why “POV” would be inappropriate. At least it isn’t in American English, but it’s possible there’s some reference to something inappropriate I’m not getting. I do snigger at “POS” as an acronym for “Point of Sale/Service(?)” because it can also mean “Piece of Shit”, but it’s an acronym commonly used in retail

      Reply ↓
      1. Audra*

        I do know that POV is a common category in adult films. But that isn’t where my first thought goes when I hear POV.

        Reply ↓
    2. WellRed*

      What do you think is odd about it? The subject line is either an abbreviation of the company name or maybe a clever play on the company abbreviation for an employee newsletter: point of view.

      Reply ↓
    3. JustaTech*

      Point of View?
      That’s the most common way I see it now, usually in the context of short-form videos. I don’t know why that wouldn’t be work-safe.

      Reply ↓
    4. Zona the Great*

      No. I don’t think so. I know it is used in p*rn but it’s not what I would think of either, as someone said above.

      Reply ↓
  81. Ethical federal worker escapee*

    Like many federal employees, I have been interviewing for other jobs outside the federal government. I had an interview today that admittedly did not go well, but it became apparent from the discussion that it would be very hard, if not impossible, to maintain certain ethics rules required for federal employees even after leaving federal service. Is there a graceful way to withdraw myself by email?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sherm*

      If you as objectively as possible don’t think you’ll be offered the position, nothing really needs to be done. But if you want to close the connection, I think something along the lines of “Thank you so much for considering me. Out of respect for your time, I wanted to let you know that I have decided to pursue other opportunities. I wish the best of luck in your search” is fine. No further details are required or should be expected.

      Reply ↓
  82. Miss Chanandler Bong*

    Has anyone else been getting LinkedIn stalked by work sales spammers? My boss and I both have lately. Today it happened when a spammer looked up my LinkedIn and found out where I used to work and them emailed me at my current job (!). I liked using LinkedIn to see where my old coworkers ended up, especially since a bunch of us got laid off back in 2023, but that is so creepy.

    Reply ↓
    1. tabloidtainted*

      I might be misunderstanding, but that person’s use of LinkedIn seems more typical to me (work-related networking), while yours seems more unusual. I wouldn’t call it creepy.

      Reply ↓
      1. Snowflake*

        +1. It’s maybe annoying, but I don’t blame people for trying to get sales/connections on LinkedIn. People reach out to me all the time hoping they can sell something to my company (I am not the person who would buy anything, though).

        Reply ↓
  83. Hiring*

    Me and a coworker interviewed a guy who was great on paper, but gave me the creeps. It wasn’t anything he said, it was just the way he stared and talked. My coworker said he was “very awkward” but not creepy to her. The role interacts with kids though, and I can’t really see him working with kids. But he’s literally perfect on paper. So I feel like I don’t have a reason to reject him. Perhaps he is just very awkward or neurodivergent and I am biased.

    However… he wouldn’t give me any references for his jobs in the past 5 years. Not even a coworker. He wouldn’t say why, and I could assume neutral things. He gave me 3 references – his coworker at a job 10 years ago, his coworker at another job he was at for a year, and his…doctor? He said he can speak to his personality.

    We are not desperate for people, but I don’t want to reject him due to my bias because he is qualified per his skillset. I haven’t called the references yet, but can I probe more about what his references think of his interaction with customers, specifically has he worked with children/students before?

    Reply ↓
    1. Educator*

      If everything else were great, I would say–is there a way to actually see how he interacts with kids? Supervised by you, of course. Teaching a sample lesson is standard for interviewing teachers; perhaps there is an equivalent for this role? That would give you and other members of the hiring committee a chance to see how kids respond to him.

      But the reference thing is a red flag. He has had jobs, plural, in the last five years and can’t put you in touch with anyone? As a reference checker, I would be wildly uncomfortable calling someone’s doctor–that’s way outside professional norms and could give me information I am not allowed to have. He’s not perfect on paper and it is totally reasonable to reject him if he can’t give current professional references.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lilian Field*

      First of all–I think that creepiness is a very legitimate thing to pay attention to, and I say that as a neurodivergent person. It’s better to risk denying one person a job unfairly than to invite an unsafe person into a workplace, especially with children. That doesn’t necessarily mean I think you should turn down a person solely because of bad vibes…although I guess I don’t *not* think that, depending on the job and the vibes…but you should dig really hard.
      In this case I would think the lack of references would be a deal-breaker on their own, wouldn’t they?
      Also, when my mom was running a large Sunday school program, she did police checks on literally everyone who ever volunteered with the kids. Are you doing police checks for this role? Are you able?

      Reply ↓
    3. 12345*

      There is (probably) a reason that he doesn’t want to give recent references and not good ones. So you definitely will want to try to get more information about that from those you speak to

      Of course, without diagnosing there may be other issues that lead to being “creepy” in the way you mentioned that could be ADA protected

      Reply ↓
    4. Hyaline*

      Yeah, no, he’s not giving you useful references. You can reject him on that alone, easily. And then he’s being cagey on top of it? There is literally NO ONE from the last five years he’s willing to put you in touch with? That’s extremely off-putting, and it’s fair to have far lower expectations of “need to make sure you aren’t a creep” for someone working with minors than talking to someone who has worked with him this decade. Just No.

      Or you can call his references, but honestly…I would just go with your gut.

      Reply ↓
  84. No Drama Llama*

    My spouse is likely to be fired for the second time since a career change. The first time was for a clearly invented reason. (They were told by their boss to do X, they did X, another person said X was against policy and the boss said they never told spouse to do X, accused spouse of lying, the boss was married to the ED, so spouse was fired.) This time is also for a string of nonsensical and inconsistent things, most of which came down to being given inconsistent instructions and then not doing whatever is in the director’s head. Things like not following the policy on Z when there is no policy on Z, or “failing to do things the director tells you to do” with no details or examples. Spouse is a big rule follower, with an incredible work ethic, so these accusations are very difficult to take. These two jobs were in HR, after a pivot from a field spouse cannot go back to because there are no employment prospects in our area. They were both small nonprofits – the first is infamously dysfunctional (although they didn’t know that when they took the job), and the second is circling the drain financially, and the director is relatively new and in over his head. Spouse is almost 60. So, my question is what do we think is the possibility that spouse could get a job in HR in the future with no positive supervisory references? And how should they address these things if they come up in interviews? And should they quit or wait to be fired – they were only given two days to improve, so we need to decide like today.

    Reply ↓
    1. RagingADHD*

      Not to be a negative Nancy but with this economy and the ageism, spouse needs to vigorously search for and pursue any job opportunity that could meet your financial needs, period. This is not the time to be strategically selective. This is the time to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.

      I also would not advise quitting without anything lined up unless they are in a legit mental health crisis and this job is endangering them.

      In interviews, I think saying something about how these were small family-run nonprofits without any standardized procedures, and that they want to work for (new company) partly because it is stable and well-governed, is one way to handle it.

      Reply ↓
  85. The Office Vegan*

    I love my job but I have this one coworker who blames me for everything. He’s of course a saint who can do no wrong, and I am gum on his shoe. It’s an ongoing issue. The most recent thing: he’s been struggling with his health, and has been to urgent care many times already this calendar year. We all traveled over the weekend (long flights for a work trip). Mid-day Wednesday I started to feel myself going downhill and went home, out all day Thursday in bed, but I’m back today feeling back to normal 100%. Well he’s out sick and apparently headed back to urgent care and blames me. To the point that our other coworker warned me to “prepare myself” for Monday when he comes back because he’s “furious” at me for getting him sick.

    Not looking for advice, just venting.

    Reply ↓
    1. WFH?*

      Where’s your supervisor or manager in all of this as this is acceptable behaviour. How do your coworkers respond? What do they think?

      Reply ↓
  86. WFH?*

    What’s the best way to approach the is there WFH or a site closer to home available?
    A friend of mine is about to be offered a positions. They’ve been able to find out about hours etc from the website and will talk to the contact re the actual duties (role descriptions cover a series of jobs on that grade so vague). But what is the best way to broach the is their WFH or other sites closer to home possible without making them feel it’s a deal breaker?

    Reply ↓
    1. Educator*

      Honestly, WFH is seen as a nice option to have, so recruiting companies rarely keep it a secret–they talk it up if they offer it. But it is totally reasonable to ask directly, especially late in the process, “Does this position need to be on-site at office x, or will the person you hire be able to work at office y or remotely?”

      Reply ↓
  87. a perfectly normal-sized space bird*

    Help I just lightly scolded my boss’s boss without realizing who she was because she was messing up our reports and I need to curl up and die now.

    I mean, I was right but she’s like as high as it gets for our division.

    Reply ↓
    2. Educator*

      Oh, don’t worry about it! I don’t know anyone, from my interns to my CEO, who has not accidentally messed up a shared report. On the very rare occasions I forget to turn on a filter view, I really want someone to tell me rather than delay their own work. She probably did not think about it at all beyond saying to herself “oh, whoops, better fix that.” We bosses are not untouchable and perfect, and believe me, that is not news to us. :)

      Reply ↓
  88. Sea Monster Sees All*

    Should a performance review ever be a surprise?

    My boss surprised me with a performance review after I made two (minor) mistakes on the same project. I’ve not made a mistake up until this point, but then she sent me an invite for the next day that was very vague.

    She proceeded to ask me what I thought about my performance before reprimanding me (again, for the third time in those two weeks) about my mistakes. (One was a miscommunication and the other a copy/paste fail.) She had nothing positive to say about my work.

    Oh, she also screamed at me for my first mistakes and others overheard. When I brought this up, she got defensive and put it back on me.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jess*

      Doesn’t sound normal to me. I would ask her what the criteria is re being placed on a performance review given it was 2 (minor) errors. Also check with HR or org policy the criteria in process for being placed on a performance review.
      With the screaming if it happens again and if you can do this politely ask her not to scream at you. I understand it can be hard to do in the heat of the moment.
      I had a manager who screamed at me regularly. I raised it in a supervision session advising it jangled my nerves and increased my error rate. I advised I was advised i was more than happy to have mistakes pointed out etc but no raised voices.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sea Monster Sees All*

        That’s a good point. I’ll definitely ask HR about the performance review because she didn’t tell me it was one until we sat down. Thanks!

        Reply ↓
    2. Educator*

      The only reason I would ever bring up an error more than once with a direct report is if they did not seem to understand what had happened and why it was a problem, or if they made the same mistake more than once.

      Did you thank her for the feedback, share a plan to prevent the mistakes from happening again, and then make sure to action that plan? If not, I would take those steps now. If you did, she is massively overreacting.

      And no boss should scream unless there is a direct risk to someone’s safety.

      Candidly, while you can ask HR about how performance reviews work in general, I don’t know that I would escalate this to them. Managers are supposed to give employees feedback, and HR, as defenders of the company, will likely have her back on that. I think a better strategy would be just to know that your boss is bad at giving feedback, and you will have to help her with that by proactively offering solutions to problems and deescalating when she gets defensive.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sea Monster Sees All*

        She’s massively overreacting because I did do all of those things for the mistakes I made, including sending a follow-up email detailing what you stated. She still brought it up a week and a half later, after my copy/paste fail, and kept asking how I could have made a mistake at all.

        I learned in this interaction that she may verbally acknowledge we’re all human and prone to making mistakes, but she expects me to never get anything wrong. I don’t necessarily be escalating this to HR but it has got me suspecting she’s not someone I’d like to work with for long, which is disappointing because prior to this incident, I felt very comfortable and happy in my role.

        Reply ↓
  89. DJ*

    Wondering what issues are coming up for ppl with return to office mandates. This can be both in work and personal lives.
    How are your family and friends reacting? Are they supportive or felt you had it too good? Did they benefit from your WFH eg available for straight after work things or during the day to do something for them/catch up for coffee/lunch. Are they willing to accommodate you being away long days ie be available weekends for catch ups?

    Reply ↓
    1. Jess*

      Varied. Those who I do see weekends generally support of my remote working. But there are some who aren’t willing to put themselves out but expect me to. One who comes to the area I work in 2-3 days per fortnight otherwise WFH as self employed doesn’t want to make one of those days a Friday so that we can meet up I can get home at midnight and not have to be back up at 6am the following day to commute back in. So it’s ok for me to stay back for them on a week night even if it means only grabbing a few hours sleep before commuting back in.

      Reply ↓
  90. ABC123*

    In fields that do “blameless postmortems” or otherwise treat negative outcomes/results as system failures, rather than the the fault of a person; how can managers/supervisors know when an employee is actually making concerning mistakes that need to either be addressed through retraining or via PIP/separation of employment.

    Similarly, I know there is a lot of talk about “psychological safety” when it comes to being able to ask questions and not being afraid to take risks. But where is the line between “No stupid questions” and “Fergus, what you are suggesting is highly illegal and unethical, you’ve been told this multiple times and the fact you keep asking makes me question whether you are suitable to work in this field”

    Reply ↓
    1. Educator*

      We do a lot of “debriefs” in the education world that focus on a situation and how to better address it next time without assigning personal blame. My strongest team members tend to be the most self-aware, and will often say things in debriefs like “next time, I would do x and not y,” and that is great! The debriefs are a chance to step back and look at the whole picture, including my own strategy and performance.

      At the same time, I am also evaluating my team members and giving them personal feedback, both positive and constructive, on a regular basis all throughout the project, not waiting until the end. I don’t see the two as mutually exclusive. My goal is to catch and respond to performance issues long before we get to a post-mortem, so I want to monitor their performance and check in with them on incremental steps. That’s where I would catch any big performance issues.

      I think being kind but honest gives employees the greatest psychological safety. Everyone wants a boss they can trust, not a boss whose behavior they have to interpret or analyze. So I would be very candid with Fergus, telling him nicely but clearly that that is a legal and ethical violation. If he kept making similar suggestions, I would ask him if he was confused about the laws/policies governing our work, and perhaps suggest training. Psychological safety means not saying, “that’s stupid.” It does not mean that you can’t say “that’s not allowed.” The former is unkind and unhelpful, the latter is objectively true.

      Reply ↓
    2. RagingADHD*

      The fact that the team is performing a blameless debrief as an exercise or philosophy doesn’t render the manager oblivious to actual performance issues or make them unable to see and correct unacceptable or unethical behavior.

      A postmortem is for a whole project / initiative. A halfway decent manager isn’t going to wait until a months-long project is over before addressing serious concerns.

      Reply ↓
    3. fhqwhgads*

      The line is when it’s a pattern.
      So Fergus makes one stupid suggestion/askes one stupid question that makes you question his judgement/suitability – you give him grace.
      Fergus has been told multiple times: it’s a Fergus problem.

      Reply ↓
  91. Anonymouse*

    A while ago I posted about my toxic job – and while I’m not gone yet (boo) I’ve been getting lots of interest on LinkedIn (like SO much – I just passed 4 years at my company, maybe that got me past some filter?) so I at least have hope that I might escape someday, despite the…. mess we are currently in. Hopefully my career is not totally doomed!

    Reply ↓
  92. Blue Spoon*

    I had my monthly one-on-one meeting with my supervisor this week, and she brought up the possibility of putting me on an IDP. I have applied for several supervisor jobs in the past and am currently working on a degree that will qualify me for higher-level positions in my organization, so on the surface this makes sense, but I am unfamiliar with IDPs as a general concept. From what my supervisor explained and from what I understand from research, it’s similar to a PIP except instead of “here’s what you need to improve in order to keep your job” it’s “here’s what you can improve in order to advance in your career”, is that an accurate assessment? Are there typically consequences for not fulfilling an IDP, or a potential ding on my reputation?

    I’m also a little paranoid about the benefits my supervisor stated there would be for doing it. While I do want to develop my skills and move up, I don’t know if completion of an IDP would have any effect beyond my development of those skills. My supervisor mentioned being able to put it on a resume, but that seems off to me. I’m not sure it would have a notable impact outside of my organization, so my current cynical theory is that it’s part of a scheme to try to keep me in the organization and not jump ship as soon as I’ve got my degree. My supervisor also mentioned that there had been some sort of conversation with HR about IDPs in general, so I’m wondering if she might be under some kind of pressure to do one with somebody. Do IDPs matter outside of the organization where they were given? Will this actually benefit me? Or am I just being paranoid?

    Reply ↓
  93. Natebrarian*

    D is a college senior applying for jobs in research labs in universities and hospitals. A few weeks ago she applied for one and clearly met all the requirements. The position is still posted, and she just went in to the HR system to check on her application—to find out that she was rejected literally the (business) day after she applied (she never got an email though which is maddening).

    To me this says that the HR system or screener interpreted her qualifications and decided she didn’t meet the minimum, even though the way the description is written clearly indicates that she does.

    I encouraged her to either email the PI directly w/ her letter/resume, or to call HR on Monday to see if they could tell her why she doesn’t qualify. She’s worried this will make her seem pushy and she’ll get a red flag on any future applications.

    Thoughts from the crowd?

    Reply ↓

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