open thread – April 15-16, 2016

by Alison Green on April 15, 2016

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,176 comments }

{ 1,176 comments… read them below }

  1. Sunflower*

    I have to fill out my first self-evaluation ever this week. I’ve only been in my position for 7 months so my biggest issue is how to weigh if I’m at where I need to be. I also tend to be very self-critical so while it’s easy for me to list accomplishments, it’s tough to say if I’m exceeding or meeting expectations. On top of all of that, we are in an insanely busy time(working long hours with little sleep), my stress levels are off the charts and I’m making little mistakes which is only making me feel more unsure whether I am cut out for this job. I seem to be getting positive reinforcement from my boss but I can’t exactly say ‘I feel like I have no idea what I’m doing most of the time but my boss seems happy so’. I will definitely be spending this weekend digging through the AAM archives.

    So suggestions for self-evaluations after 7 months on the job when you’re very self-critical?

    2. Jill of All Trades*

      One trick I’ve tried that worked was to write the evaluation as if I was writing it about someone else. I’m much kinder to others than I am to myself, and it also helps me see the line between meets and exceeds expectations better.

      1. mockingbird2081*

        This is an excellent idea. I, like you, am much tougher on myself than I am on others.

      2. Amber T*

        Ditto to this, and I’d even start writing in the third person. “Sunflower has met X goals in the past seven months” and “Sunflower could continue to work on Y.” It helps make it less personal and more realistic. (I don’t recommend submitting it in the third person unless that’s office norms or you want your boss to think you’re a bit weird though.)

      3. Doriana Gray*

        I do this too, Jill, and for the same reason. I’m hypercritical of myself, so learning to see me the way others do and somehow get it on the page was difficult for me at first. I think I’ve gotten better at it over the years though.

        1. Vicki*

          I stopped being over critical of myself back in HS when some of the teachers asked us to “grade” our own papers or projects.

          I figured if they were going to ask, I could be confident.

          My self-evals are, therefore, usually of the form: I did everything I was asked to do, as well as I could. Here’s what I did: …

          Oh, and staring Right Now: Get yourself a note book and, every day, before you leave, take 10 minutes at the end of the day to jot down what you did in broad strokes. If your job is tor respond to specific requests, save each of those and keep more detailed notes, on the computer or in the Notebook.

          It’s much easier when you get to the 6-month or 1-yr review and you can actually kook back at each day/week and know _exactly_ what you did.

    3. 42*

      Go with your mention of accomplishments, and tie them in to the larger picture of how busy you’ve been. Everyone makes little mistakes when you’re overloaded with work, so please don’t sweat that. Just try to look objectively at your contributions to the larger picture, and frame your assessment starting from there.

      That said, when I do my own self-assessments (and I also work in a field where there are crazy deadlines to be met with an increased workload), I do also acknowledge where and under what circumstances things tend to go off the rails. But I also offer up ways that I can prevent that from happening in the future.

      So highlight true accomplishments, acknowledge shortcomings, and propose fixes for them. Good luck!

    4. my two cents*

      I was the lone apps eng at my old job alongside a team of development engineers, and I reported into the Operations manager who wasn’t at all technical. Listing the various activities each year really helped me organize them into sections – issue resolution, technical assistance, technical writing, customer visits, etc.

      Try listing the various projects or customer accounts you’ve been working on/with over those 7 months – just list them all out for yourself. Then list whatever training modules you’ve completed. I bet once you see the list you’re compiling, you’ll feel at least a little more confident in your performance.

      And there’s always things you can continue to improve upon without it feeling like you’re just criticizing your current performance. One I kept on my review year over year was anticipating customer questions and providing complete/holistic responses to help eliminate turn-around time with additional calls or email volleys. We had several customers in Europe and Asia, and you’d automatically lose a day if you had to ask that one last nagging question. Also be sure to include any future training or classes you would appreciate to support your role – maybe it’s specific software like indesign, or in-depth product knowledge to better-support customers.

    5. JMegan*

      I once had to do an annual review when I was three months into the job. My manager told me that she knew it was a ridiculous requirement, but bureaucracy blah blah. Basically, the only goal I could reasonably have at that point was to learn about the job, so it looked like this:

      Goals for ridiculously short time period: Learn about X, Y, Z aspects of the job
      How I will accomplish these goals: Information on the intranet and policies and procedures, formal training, asking for help when needed
      Self-Evaluation: I learned X and Y, am getting up to speed on Z, and will move on to A, B, and C next.
      Manager’s Evaluation: JMegan is a fast learner and is quickly getting settled into her new position. I look forward to working with her next year.

      It looks a bit fluffy, for sure. But if the real goal is to fill out the performance evaluation form (rather than to actually evaluate your performance!), it met the requirements of the bureaucracy. Hope that helps!

    6. Total Rando*

      One of the best tips that my manager gave me about self-evals is to quantify accomplishments. Examples include:

      Spent X months leading a team of Y associates focusing on the Chocolate Teapot Redesign, resulting in $Z of savings for the Spout Department

      When it’s quantifiable, it feels less braggy and more like facts.

      1. Bea W*

        I do this, and when I see things quantified, it makes me feel like I really did accomplish something and it’s not all in my head.

      2. Doriana Gray*

        This is what I did in my last two performance reviews in 2014 and 2015 (I didn’t get one this year because I transferred to a new division). I was dealing with financial matters and numbers, so it was easy to say, “I recovered X amount of dollars in Y months, a record for the position” or whatever. Now though I’m in a division where my work isn’t easily quantifiable at all, so I’ll have to ask others in the division for examples of things they write.

    7. Koko*

      1) Be honest about your challenges and mistakes, but always always state what you learned from them and how you’ve altered your processes to address them. (Because you did, right?)
      2) Rate yourself highly. There are no real negative consequences to inflating your own evaluation metric as long as your written narrative is sound and accurate. There are potential downsides to under-rating yourself, though. Be willing to be your own champion. (This is one area where women tend to fall behind men in the workplace, because we’re more likely to underrate ourselves because society conditions us to place a higher value on things like honesty than things like self-promotion. Remember the saying: “Strive to have the confidence of a mediocre white man.”)

      By the way, do you have KPIs? Concrete metrics or goals you are supposed to be hitting? They’re a great way to get a sense of whether you’re exceeding or meeting expectations. At 7 months in you may not actually have metrics like this that you’re fully responsible for, but at least for next year, you should really push to have standards like that you can objectively rate yourself against.

    8. phedre*

      First thing – while this is a generalization that depends on how good a manager you have – your review should never be a surprise. So if you were going to get a bad review, your manager would have already been having conversations with you about improving performance. So keeping that in mind may take some anxiety out of it for you!

      I think one of the important things for someone who is self-critical to remember is that when you’re writing your areas to improve – they don’t necessarily have to be things that you’re bad at! When I first started my career, I had trouble with this section. My boss helped me reframe the way I looked at it – she said, “you’re doing a great job, but think of it as listing ways you can be even better.”

      For example, my review was last month and under areas to improve I listed further deepen relationships with donors and the board, look for further ways to integrate data into fundraising decision-making, and grow fundraising event by securing additional sponsors. These aren’t things I’m doing badly now, but you can always get better and stronger!

      1. Kyrielle*

        Yes! I switched industries about a year ago, and my self-eval for the review at the end of the year included goals of “continuing to deepen my knowledge of (new industry)” and “learning more about (specific toolset related to my current set of assignments)”.

  2. Golden Yeti*

    Making my case for a raise today, if all goes according to plan. Will keep you guys posted.

  3. Aussie Teacher*

    Mentoring:
    I’ve been back teaching (after having kids) for 8 months now, and would like to be taking steps towards the next step in my career, which is Head of Department. I’ve read AAM’s excellent article on how to be a good mentor and it’s exactly what I’d like to be learning (e.g. Learning more about the challenges of the position, learning how to deal with difficult parents or issues with staff etc).
    My current HoD manages 3 classroom teachers (including me) and about 18 instrumental teachers. The main issue I have is that she married one of the other classroom music teachers, which puts us two remaining teachers in an awkward position, as the husband essentially can do what he likes, and our HoD has been known to rush in to defend him/attack without hearing both sides of the story.
    In addition, her husband and I are both part time, and there may not be enough work for both of us to continue on next year. (The decision will not solely be up to my HoD but obviously her opinion will carry weight).

    SO, (a) do I go to my HoD and propose some mentoring, knowing that any weaknesses or areas for improvement I reveal may be used against me at the end of the year, or (b) do I seek mentoring elsewhere?

    If (a), How do I convince her to essentially train me up to do her job, when there isn’t room for me to move into it without booting her or changing schools? She also hates managing, so I’m worried she may take her insecurity out on me if she knows I want to move up.

    If (b), would I approach another HoD at my own school or seek a Music HoD at another school? (Music HoDs tend to face unique challenges that others HoDs don’t, including managing a much larger staff and budget, and dealing with MANY parents daily, upset at which ensemble their child was placed in etc., so I’m doubtful I could learn much from an English or Science HoD, for instance). But I doubt another school would be interested in investing time in a teacher from a different school.

    1. Mythea*

      I would find a HoD at another school – they would most likely just be thrilled that someone is interested and willing to learn. As long as you are both doing it evening/weekend, I doubt either job will mind. In addition, many companies (not sure if this is true at schools as well) like to be able to brag that their people are looked upon as mentors to many in the field – that approach can sell an idea fairly easily when needed to bosses who might object.

      1. Aussie Teacher*

        Ooo I like the idea of framing it that way (mutual benefit rather than one way benefit just to me)! Thanks for the suggestion!

    2. Muriel Heslop*

      From one teacher to another (I’m also a department head), it sounds like finding another Music HoD at another school is your best bet. It doesn’t sound like your current HoD is a particularly good manager, and if you think even for a second that there may be negative consequences if she discovers your aspirations, look elsewhere. It also sounds like you really would benefit from a music HoD, specifically. Good luck!

      1. Aussie Teacher*

        Yeah, I’m not sure I’m willing to risk the possible negative consequences for possible little gain, given her management style.
        It’s just so much easier to stick your head into someone’s office and say “want to sit in and listen to a difficult phone call I’m about to make to a parent” rather than sell another school’s Music HoD on regular weekend meetings where it’s much harder for them to share concrete examples of their work (and there may be privacy concerns etc). But I may have to bite the bullet and just do it.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Is being mentored a necessary part of becoming a department head? I’ve taught only in the U.S. (in independent and public schools), so I don’t know if this is a U.S. vs. Australia thing or if you’d just like a mentor but don’t need one.

      I would say just ditch the mentoring piece and start applying for department head positions at other schools. In my experience, some schools will almost exclusively promote from within and other schools will almost exclusively hire higher-ups externally. Best of luck!

      1. Aussie Teacher*

        It’s more that there’s so much I know that I don’t know! I want my HoD to be like “Hey, we need to hire a new saxophone teacher – want to sit in on/help with my interviews?” or to say, “I got this irate email from a parent. Why don’t you draft up a response for practice and then we can go through it together and I’ll show you what I wrote and why I handled it that way.” I have never managed others (although I’ve been addicted to AAM since 2011) or budgeted anything etc.

        In addition, my HoD and her husband will be taking long service leave in 2017-18 and they will need an acting HoD for 6 months, which is my perfect chance to gain experience in the role before applying for HoD jobs elsewhere. I teach in private schools (they pay better and are much more exclusive/have bigger budgets than public in Oz) and no one is likely to hire me without ‘acting-up’ HoD experience at the very least.

    4. Gillian*

      I think a music department head at another school would give you better information than your own. Especially if you don’t know that you’ll stay at your current school forever, they may be able to provide insight on things that you wouldn’t have even thought to ask about because your school does things differently.

      I’ve found many people in the education world (at all levels) are happy to talk about what they do with people who are legitimately interested in learning. And if they’re too busy or can’t/won’t for whatever reason, you’re not any further back than where you are right now.

      1. Aussie Teacher*

        That’s true – if I ask another Music HoD, I’m no worse off than I am now if they say no, and I’ve at least networked a little!

    5. Fine Print*

      Are you a member of the association for your profession eg for music teachers? It may be a place to find a mentor. Do you participate in professional development through such an association? Perhaps enquire at state and national level with the various associations for PD or mentoring opportunities. You mentioned your school is independent. You school might be part of an association of schools and they offers courses for aspiring leaders.

      Your Principal would, I* imagine, have to sign off on appointments. If you have doubt the HoD would be impartial, you may also be doubting that the Principal can appoint impartially. Would speaking to the Principal or other Leadership help? Only you can judge if it would.

      Its good to ask questions and its also good to take responsibility for your own development as a leader. Good luck and love to hear how you get on.
      (*education sector too)

  4. The anon*

    Does anyone volunteer online? What do you do? I am a Smithsonian Digital Volunteer but am looking for additional online volunteering opportunities.

    1. Anna No Mouse*

      Check out Idealist.org. They have a lot of volunteer opportunities, and you can sort by those opportunities that are remote.

    2. Jill of All Trades*

      You could try a site like Volunteer Match and see what’s available for online volunteering.

    3. Audiophile*

      I’ve volunteered remotely for the past two years. I handle social media for a non-profit, focusing specifically on one platform. I’ve really enjoyed it and it lead to a job with a separate organization.

      Online volunteering really worked for me, because my job at the time was pretty crazy. Varied hours and long work weeks. I knew I wouldn’t have time or energy to volunteer in person.

      I found my role listed on volunteermatch.

    5. The bread burglar*

      I haven’t done it. But I know Fix the Web is a strictly online volunteering opportunity. And Stephen Fry vouches for it according to their website…

    7. Clever Name*

      I guess I’ve never thought of it this way, but I am a La Leche League leader, but I don’t lead any meetings (I work full time, and meetings tend to be during the day). I run my area’s website, and I answer questions via email. It’s not an online volunteer gig one can just pick up, though. Being a LLL leader requires a certain amount of nursing experience and at least a year of training. :)

      1. Phyllis B*

        Clever Name: Good for you being an LLL leader while working. When I was nursing/working I applied to be a leader, but was rejected because I worked outside the home. Didn’t turn me against LLL, I still participated, but I’m glad to know they now allow working mothers.

    8. AnonymousMarketer*

      I’m so glad you asked this because I’ve been thinking about volunteering but my schedule doesn’t really allow for much extra time. I never even thought about virtual volunteering.

    9. Triangle Pose*

      VocalID, you can volunteer your voice for programs that help people with ASL and other vocal issues speak!

    10. Lucie*

      I don’t know if it’s close to what you’re looking for but I the online mental health/ emotional support websites like 7cupsoftea run on volunteers and it’s entirely online :)

    11. Joanna*

      I used to volunteer with Distributed Proofreaders who work on auto-generated text from scanned out of copyright books into free ebooks.

  5. New girl*

    Does anyone have tips to help you stay focused? I’ve been working on a lot of data entry this week and can’t see to keep my mind on the task. I find myself doing things and then 5 minutes later not being able to remember what I did.

      1. Mike C.*

        I’m listening to a great house set by Deep Dish on youtube right now, this is also great advice.

          1. Windchime*

            Oh wow, I listened to a little bit of that and I think it would make me a nervous wreck. Something about the rhythm makes me anxious. I have a white-noise app on my phone so I listen to that a lot, mostly the sounds of waves crashing on the short. It’s interesting how different sounds work for different people.

      2. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

        I have found that video game music works really well. I listen to the Skyrim soundtrack a lot.

        1. T3k*

          Second video game music. I love playing the full Mass Effect trilogy at work (it’s almost 6 and a half hours long).

        2. The bread burglar*

          I third video game music as well.

          Skyrim and mass effect are both excellent choices. I wouldn’t recommend the fallout 3 soundtrack because a few of the songs have lyrics and that always jars me out of concentration.

          If you search on youtube there are a lot of “video game music for studying” playlists.

          Alternatively, I have found that Aston (and groups like them) are really good because they do classical covers of famous songs so no lyrics but are quite nice.

        3. Almond Milk Latte*

          A+ to Minecraft music. It’s the right balance of mentally interesting but not TOO interesting.

        5. Papyrus*

          I love the Skyrim soundtrack but it almost instantly makes me fall asleep! I’ll honestly want to play the game, but I end up pausing it 5 minutes in to take a nap. But I do second the idea of finding a ambient playlist on Youtube or something, because it does help to listen to something without lyrics that you don’t have to focus on.

        6. Snazzy Hat*

          Katamari soundtracks. They’re made to be fun or pleasant music while your character is just rolling around a giant adhesive ball.

    2. Mike C.*

      Pomodoro system can work if it’s something you stick to, also having something interesting to listen to can help.

      I used to spend eight hours/day calibrating scientific equipment which in a lot of ways is a lot like data entry. The only thing that kept me sane was an HD Radio tuned to NPR/BBC World, and even then I would have to stream other NPR stations to make sure I had something “interesting/engaging” to listen to.

      Substitute something that interests you for NPR.

      2. Aella*

        Seconding the Pomodoro system. It is pretty much getting me through applying for jobs and editing my dissertation.

    3. legalchef*

      Depending on what type of data entry it is, maybe break it up into specific tasks/goals? Like “I will enter data from surveys 50-100 and then take a walk around the block” or something like that.

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        When I was in data entry, if I had a large project and had to start another large but very different project upon completion of the first, I took a walk around the building or sat in a quiet room for five minutes before starting the second project. It helped prevent the repetitive motions from bleeding over. I highly highly recommend the break-apart tactic legalchef suggested.

    6. Clinical Social Worker*

      Sounds like you aren’t taking enough breaks. Get into a groove of doing these things but rest your eyes for a few minutes and focus on taking big deep belly breathes.

    7. Sunflower*

      Music and make sure you are taking breaks away from your computer. Try to get away from your desk(lunch) when you can. I’d avoid your computer and eletronics at home as well.

    9. mockingbird2081*

      If you are able. I have found when doing tedious data entry that the best way for myself to stay focused is to have an audio book going in the background or on my headphones. It has to be a book I have listened to before because I can’t be super interested in following the story. For whatever reason that seems to calm my brain enough to do the mundane task and stay focused for extended periods of time. Favorite book to do this with is Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.

      1. Anony-moose*

        Me too – I save data entry for really “trashy” audiobooks like mediocre sci-fi which I LOVE, and other Young Adult fiction. Easy enough to listen to with half my brain and I actually start to enjoy data entry.

    10. MsMaryMary*

      For data entry and other repetetive, non-enagaging tasks, I actually prefer to listen to a podcast or audio book instead of music. The narrative engages enough of my brain that I can crank through my tasks.

    11. SerfinUSA*

      This American Life archives are nice for interesting yet non-distracting listening. I do a lot of repetitious work periodically and can’t always spare the concentration for a full-on audiobook, and sometimes just don’t want to listen to music. The episodes of TAL are broken into sections, have a theme, and can be enlightening as well as entertaining in a magazine-article style.

      1. YawningDodo*

        Some of my work is similar to data entry; when all I’m doing is copying information I’ll usually listen to podcasts. I’ll occasionally do audiobooks as well, but it’s easier to go back and figure out where I was if I realize I’ve been tuning the podcast out, and I find it easier for me to hit pause if I run into a bit of work that requires my full concentration and just jump back into the podcast when I’m ready to listen again. I listen to TAL as well, plus a lot of shows on the Maximum Fun network (though I’ll only listen to My Brother My Brother and Me if I’m alone in the room, because I think it’s weird to laugh at things other people can’t hear and I can’t not laugh).

        I’d also second the pomodoro suggestion. Set a timer and work for twenty-five minutes, then take five minutes to look away from the screen and move around. I do that as well as the podcast thing and find it much easier to stay on task when there’s a limit on how long I’m doing it before my next mini-break.

    12. Clever Name*

      I think it depends on how you focus best. For data entry, which I find mind numbingly boring, I listen to podcasts or lectures. To tune out loud coworkers so I can concentrate and write reports, I’ll usually listen to new age music (yes, stuff like Enya). Sometimes I’ll listen to pop music. It depends on my mood, what I’m doing, and how loud my office is that day.

    13. Swoop*

      if you have a tv or can stream it: cooking shows. They tend to be not too exciting and very much follow a pattern, but still be interesting enough that the bored part of one’s brain is engaged. There is the issue that you might end up either hungry or not hungry though…

    14. eee*

      I have adhd and the only way I can do this well is to be watching TV. Luckily I get to work from home a lot, but my office culture tends to be sort of relaxed, so I watch Netflix on my phone with headphones in. Or audiobooks, or music that has more of a narrative–like Hamilton. This works better if the data entry is a lot of numbers though, I do tend to get a little tripped up when it’s a lot of text. When it’s mixed, I tend to watch/listen while I enter the numbers, and then pause my media to type up the words. I used to feel really guilty about it, before I realized that when I’m able to watch TV/listen to some narrative, I get my work done faster and more accurately than my peers. When I have to just concentrate on the boring thing, I just fail at doing that, and make a lot of mistakes.
      Also, if it’s at all possible, use the system to make it hard to fail. I mostly do data entry in Access or Excel, so I use conditional formatting to flag anytime I’ve accidentally skipped a field (aka if the cell to the left is not blank, and the cell to the right is not blank, and this cell is blank, turn red). And data validation to prevent me from entering anything that’s off code.

      1. Zahra*

        ADHD here too. I used to listen to movies that I already knew. New movies would not be a good idea, I’d want to watch them, not work. My colleagues laughed at me for listening to the Lord of the Rings all over again. Podcasts are a no-no for the same reason. Music’s good.

      2. TootsNYC*

        I always found it easier to study in the student-union snack bar than in the quiet lounge across the hall.

  6. Jill of All Trades*

    My company is being bought in a few weeks and all of the work has dried up. I’ve completely run out of ideas for how to spend my time. Everything is organized, files have been created/updated, SOP are all written out, projects completed, etc. How awful would it be for me to read a business development book at my desk? It’s that or pretend to be working :(

    Allegedly, work should pick back up once the transaction closes.

    1. mockingbird2081*

      If you are required to be there I would ask a manager if there is anything else that can be done. If not just ask. If I was a manager and work was that slow but my people had to be there I would be happy to have them read a business development book.

    2. Karowen*

      I’m going with not awful at all. Is the development you’re looking at going to help the company in even a tangential way (e.g. learning to meditate which will help you focus at work)? If yes, especially when you have nothing else to do, absolutely go for it. (Otherwise I’d say still go for it, but try to find a way to apply it to your work.)

    3. Wendy Darling*

      Do you have a work computer and can you read stuff digitally on it and still look kind of like you’re working?

      When I got laid off and all my projects were transferred before my official end date I unapologetically and with the full support of my manager took online classes at my desk, but I know most workplaces aren’t like that unfortunately. I feel like it SHOULD be kosher to use time when you don’t have any work to do self-study that will help you improve at your job, buuut sometimes it is not.

      1. RVA Cat*

        If you have an in-house training portal, it should be okay to use. Many companies have them with software courses, etc.

    4. Elle*

      My rule is that I can do professional development if everything else is finished, so I say go for it! I have to get 60 hours of CEUs over the course of 3 years, and I take online courses at my desk as time allows, sometimes for 10 minutes at a time. If it really makes you nervous, maybe ask your boss if it’s OK? Maybe there are things she could use your help with if she knew you had time to spare.

    5. IT_Guy*

      Is there any online training that interests you? There are loads of books online that you can use to ‘look busy’.

    6. TootsNYC*

      There’s also online software training, etc.!

      i would mention it to my boss, and just dive in.

  7. legalchef*

    I am applying for jobs but am not using my former immediate supervisor, who left my office in December, as a reference, even though she told me she would be happy to be one on multiple occasions.

    She left on bad terms with my office, though not with me specifically, but I stopped talking to her shortly after because she was so negative about everything at my office (including my working there) that I needed to take a step back. The last communication we had (over text) wasn’t a great one. She also runs really hot and cold, and because I am applying for a job with the same title as the one she has now I can definitely see her thinking “what???? She and I can’t have the same title!!!!” and giving me a poor reference as a result.

    However, I have an interview next week (yay!) and they asked for references up front, which I’ve provided. My job world is a small one, and people at the org at which I’m interviewing are likely to know my former supervisor. What do I say if they ask why I’m not using her? I don’t want to say anything bad about her (because I don’t want to risk it getting back to her and also because I think it’s poor form), but I don’t want it to seem weird that I am not using as a reference the person who is arguably in the best position to talk about my work.

    1. Anna No Mouse*

      I get why you’re not putting her down as a reference, but your interviewers may choose to contact her anyway, if they know that you worked with her, so keep that in mind.

      If they ask you why you’re not using her as a reference, you could just say that since she left the company where you worked together, you didn’t have her updated contact information. (Though, in this day and age, I’m not sure that would fly, since Google is at your fingertips.)

      1. legalchef*

        I know that they might contact her anyway, which is another reason I don’t want to say anything bad! I can’t say that I don’t have her updated contact information – I have her personal email and personal cell numbers (as well as her new work email), so it would be really weird for me to say that.

        1. The bread burglar*

          If it was me, I would say something along the lines of you wanted to provide them a reference that is still working there, as she wouldn’t be able to verify your employment dates, etc. since leaving.

    2. Erin*

      I actually don’t think it will look that weird. Although as Anna No Mouse said, they might contact her regardless.

      IF they do and IF she does give you a bad reference – keep in mind she’s not the only one they’re speaking to. I’m sure they won’t weigh her opinion over others if the other two or three or whatever references give you a good one. And if they know this woman personally, as you suspect they might, then they probably already know she’s a bit nutty.

      1. legalchef*

        I’m sure I am overthinking it. She’s the type of person who to a casual acquaintance will seem perfectly reasonable and rational, though. The other references I gave (a coworker/supervisee, a supervisee, and a co-supervisor) will all give me great references though.

    3. super anon*

      when i applied for my current job i didn’t use my last manager as a reference even tho i had done great work for him. he had been fired from the org mysteriously (he was perp walked out and barred from the premises and then management said he was on “vacation” for 3 weeks until they could no longer hide it and had to tell people he left. i’ve been told no one talks about him anymore, it’s taboo to even say his name) , and because i was applying for a job there i was concerned of the impression it would make to use him as a reference. no one asked and i got hired for the role, so everything worked out.

    4. TootsNYC*

      Just say, “Oh, I had someone else already, and I usually only give one reference per job.”

      1. legalchef*

        That would work, but they are all from the same job, because I’ve been at the same office since I graduated law school (been there for 7.5 years).

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Can you just express uncertainty? Such as, “Well she has gone on to another employer and I was not sure if it would be an intrusion on her time with her new employer for me to use her as a reference. I was concerned about her taking time from her new job to discuss something from her former job.”

      1. TootsNYC*

        not my vote–because that’s actually how references mostly work, and it might imply that legalchef didn’t realize that. it makes her seem less savvy.

  8. Issue with two raises in a month*

    Last month I had my annual review and was told I’d get a (very small) raise effective March 1. I then got promoted effective April 1 with a bigger raise. On 3 separate occasions I was told I’d still be getting the small increase in March.

    However, I haven’t gotten my raise for March and my (former) manager is saying there was a miscommunication and the bigger raise (with a later effective date) was in place of the smaller one.

    On the one hand, I don’t want to ruin any goodwill at my company for about $180, but on the other…. I think i deserve that money and was told I’d be getting it. Should I just move on or continue to push for it?

    1. Sunflower*

      I’m confused- were you getting a raise or a bonus March 1? You got promoted and got a bigger raise so I’d assume the amount you were getting March 1 is ‘included’ in the April 1 raise?

      1. Issue with two raises in a month*

        I got a raise starting March 1 and then got a promotion (with a higher pay rate) starting April 1.

        1. Sunflower*

          I’m on the same page as ‘is it spring yet’. Raises and promotions can often happen at times other than when they are promised and within a month is really close.

    2. legalchef*

      Is it $180.00 in total? If so, I would probably drop it, unless you really need the money/have pre-spent it on something.

    3. Is it spring yet?*

      If what you want is the extra money you would have earned in March before the promotion I would let it go. While technically they may owe you this money there is a likelihood you will come across as petty and/or greedy. And with the raise and promotion that close together very, very few companies are going to process paperwork twice that close together. It seems to me that the manager felt you deserved a raise and then someone else said no she deserves a promotion but couldn’t get made effective in March.

    4. FrenchMacroon*

      I think the net result here is zero from the way you describe it. It would be different if, say your promotion was a flat % and your base should have been 1000 higher before applying but it does not sound that way.

    5. H.C.*

      I think it depends if the promotion-linked raise is based off of your former title’s pay (vs a completely newpayscale), in which case even a small percentage from the March raise would equal lots of $$$ in the long run. Of course, this means in addition to the missing March 1 pay, you need to talk about retroactively adjusting the April 1 promotion pay.

  9. SJ*

    Last week I had a day of interviews for a really great job, and I’m hoping they’ll make a decision soon, so I’m thinking ahead about getting in touch with my references in case they’re going to be contacted. However, when I was skimming my resume, I noticed that a timeline on my resume for one of my jobs is unclear and incorrect. I helped run a summer study abroad program at a university — I believe the trip was about 6 weeks long in total, ending in early August. However, the director of the program and I started meeting to plan the trip in early March. The first problem: for some reason, in my head I was totally convinced the director and I started meeting in January to plan the trip, so my start and end dates for that role say January-August and not March-August. (When I went back and found the email thread where we planned our first meeting, it confirmed it was March. It was 5 years ago now, so I honestly just remembered wrong.) The second: in editing my resume down to a page, I inadvertently removed the language specifying that the study abroad program itself was only 6 weeks and that the planning happened in the months before then, so it reads as though we were abroad from January to August.

    I’m sick with worry over this. It was an honest error — I was working on my Masters degree full-time at the same time as this job, along with working as a research assistant, and that degree was a perfectly valid reason to have gaps in my work history, so I absolutely, 100% was not trying to lie about this role or how long it lasted in order to make myself look better. But I’m so afraid of how this looks. This was, essentially, two mistakes that together look really bad, at least to me. The director of the program is one of my references, so if they decide to contact him, should I ask him to clarify the specifics of my role (regarding the planning stage and then the program stage) and then let him know I had the wrong start month on my resume? Should I directly ‘fess up to my potential employer about the mistakes? I don’t know what to do.

    1. Collie*

      Personally, I’d let it go. If they notice, they’ll ask and you can explain then. The chances that they’d take you out of the running for something like this (especially because (a) three and six months are short periods of time and (b) the difference between the two isn’t that significant in the grand scheme of things) is small, especially without talking to you first. Does your reference plan on contacting you if they are in touch with the company?

      1. Jill of All Trades*

        Do the roles to which you’re applying actually need this kind of experience? If you’re not applying to roles for running study abroad programs or their ilk, I don’t know how much a company will dig into a brief role (either timeline has it as really brief) from 5 years ago when you were in grad school.

        Especially because it was 5 years ago and it’s a variance of only 2 months from January to March, I’d let it go. Regarding the way it reads about how long the abroad part of it was, that’s something you can clarify on your resume for future applications, but I’d also let it go for this one.

        1. SJ*

          I work in higher ed and have applied for a leadership role, so it’s a good reference. The brief job I had after grad school, before my current job, has nothing to do with higher ed at all, so when it comes to the three best references, they’re definitely two of my current bosses and then the director of the study abroad program.

          And that’s making this whole thing a little sticky for sure. I’m in my first real-world, post-education job, so pretty much all of my work experience (other than my current role) that’s actually relevant to my career path has been completed while in school.

      2. SJ*

        Well, the organization hasn’t even asked for references yet, but I’m just thinking about how to address this situation if they do. The last time this guy was a reference, he did let me know after my now-employer contacted him (but I knew ahead of time that he was going to be contacted). I guess my concern is that in the course of the conversation, the potential employer could ask my reference, “Okay, so you worked abroad with SJ from January to August?” and he’d go, “Huh? What? No, the program itself was only 6 weeks long.” So that’s why I was wondering if I should address the vagueness on my resume with my reference so that if they ask him, he can say, “Well, we did work on the program for the semester before, but we were only abroad for 6 weeks” or what have you.

    2. orchidsandtea*

      I’d email your old program director and mention it to him. “Hey Rupert, just a heads up that I made an error on my resume and put January instead of March for when our planning sessions began. Just wanted you to know in case it came up when they contact you. Of course I’ll clarify with them next time we speak.”

      And on a call with the company, you could offhandedly mention, “By the way, I did notice an error in my resume—planning for the six-week study abroad program in 2011 began in March, not January.”

      It’s not a big deal, especially if you’re above board about it.

    3. TootsNYC*

      Don’t bring up the error unless they do.

      It may not matter to them in the least, and you don’t want to call their attention to it if they’ve overlooked it.

      If it matters to them, they will have already rejected you, and there’s nothing you can do.

      Just be prepared for *IF* they ask (“Oh, yes, I didn’t call out the smaller distinctions of planning, etc.”).

      And fix it for next time.

    4. stellsbells*

      Don’t worry too much about it! I used to process background checks for OldJob and the difference of a couple of months from a job that was 5 years ago would have totally been fine. If they ask, just say you knew the planning started the spring semester before the trip, but you couldn’t remember the exact dates so you just wrote the month the semester began. Very few people are going to expect you to remember that level of detail from that long ago :)

      You can email your reference if you’d like, but I don’t necessarily think that’s necessary either. You were working on that program during that time, which is probably all the new employer will care about – and I’m sure your reference is going to talk about how you worked together to plan and then execute the trip, so it won’t come off like you were hiding something in your resume.

      tl;dr – you are totally overthinking! Just fix your resume for future applications, and try not to worry about this one too much (although always easier said than done during a job search, for sure!)

  10. Anonymous Cookie*

    I had a phone interview last week which I think went pretty well. I can’t wait to hear back some time next week.

  11. The Other Dawn*

    Does anyone have any recommendations for a cushion for my office chair?

    I have very mild scoliosis and am prone to muscle spasms in my lower back on the right side, which I know is because I’m very sedentary: I sit all day at work and then go home and watch TV for a couple hours. I’m more active now that I’m going to a personal trainer, but even with all this moving, I find I’m never completely rid of lower back pain; sitting all day at work just undoes everything I did the day before. I try to get up more often at work, and I take a walk during the day, but sitting for more than about 20 minutes just starts up the pain again. It’s usually not horrible pain–that only happens after a spasm–but it’s annoying as hell and I’m stiff when I get up. I’m just so tired of noticing my back (I know that sounds weird).

    So, I’m thinking a special cushion for my chair might help. I don’t want to try a new chair yet, but I will if it comes to that. I already switched out my chair once, although I haven’t yet said I need a special chair. And if I do, I will need a doctor’s note. Not a big deal, but I’ll try a cushion first.

    1. Anna No Mouse*

      If standing for short periods doesn’t bother you, you could always try a standing desk. I have a Varidesk, that allows me to stand or sit throughout the day. I have a lot of lower back pain, and I find that being able to switch positions periodically really helps. They can be a bit pricey (mine cost $400, and has room for two computer monitors), but it’s been so work it.

      1. IT_Guy*

        If your doctor can require it for work environment, I would think that your company would pick up the tab as an AADA compliance issue.

      2. LizB*

        I have a foldable cardboard standing desk from Oristand that was $25 (plus shipping) — I bought it as a way to try out a standing desk, and I really like it! It sits on top of a normal desk or table, and puts your laptop/monitor at eye level and your keyboard (you need a separate keyboard) at the right arm height. When I get tired of using it, I fold it up flat, tuck it next to my desk, and go back to sitting. I think they only ship to the US and Canada, but if you’re in one of those places and want to try out standing while working, I definitely recommend them.

    2. Mythea*

      I am not a doctor :) I have found that using an exercise ball 1/2 the time and a chair (I switch out every couple hours) has really helped with lower back pain that comes from not moving – it helps me fidget a little more which is something I find very helpful.

        1. Wendy Darling*

          Not the person you’re responding to, but I used to do this as well. I was able to get a properly sized exercise ball and adjust my desk a little so I wasn’t too low to type, but the gotcha was that I had to sit with half-decent posture to type comfortably. Which was beneficial to me but kind of frustrating sometimes when I was feeling tired and slouchy.

        2. Mythea*

          When you are using a ball for exercise you get a small one – when you are using it as a chair I have always gotten the biggest one I can still touch the floor and use. It keeps me high enough that I have had no issues and my current desk doesn’t adjust where the keyboard is.

      2. sunny-dee*

        +1. I LOVED my exercise ball, when I used one. I need to dig out of a closet, and then I’ll switch back.

        I do work from home, though. If I’m pondering something or in a long conference call or something, there is nothing better than just bouncing up and down maniacally. It’s the little things in life….

    3. legalchef*

      This isn’t a super useful reply, but I have a similar situation (though I had/have more severe scoliosis and was in a brace for much of high school and my pain is on the left), so I feel your pain (literally!). I’ve tried many types of chair cushions, and none of them worked. The ones that helped my back aggravated something else. I keep thinking I should look into a different chair entirely.

    4. A Jane*

      I’d recommend getting a BetterBack
      http://getbetterback.com/

      I have back and neck pain because I spend too much time sitting at work and this product helps you effortlessly sit in the correct position. I still find mine a bit fiddly to put on and it only works with trousers/pants and not with a skirt! But I wear it all the time when I remember and it really helps relieve the pain.

    5. Jascha*

      I don’t have a specific recommendation, but I wanted to mention that those kinds of things often vary wildly. My workplace purchased “lumbar cushions” for me and a co-worker because the way our desk chairs fit us was hurting our backs. However, they’re so large that they actually go way up my back and push me forward, causing me to hunch more and making my back worse. (I’m currently trying to fold it in half and seeing if that helps, but I suspect I’ll just end up buying my own.) So take careful note of where exactly you want support and where you don’t, and make sure the cushion you get won’t accidentally make things worse. If you’re not sure, a doctor or physical therapist might help.

    6. Clever Name*

      I had severe scoliosis that was corrected surgically, so now it’s “only” moderate scoliosis. My back is all kinds of messed up. I have a Kensington memory foam chair cushion that helps. It’s also helped me to make sure my chair and desk set up is *perfect* for my body. I found one chair that doesn’t hurt my lower back (it’s seriously the only office chair I’ve sat in that doesn’t cause intense pain in my lower back within an hour or two). You can pry this chair out of my cold, dead hands. :) I am short, and have a short torso, so I have a footstool, my desk is an inch lower than standard, and I’ve removed the armrests from my chair.

      Since your spine isn’t fused, I highly recommend yoga and stretching. There are physical therapists and I think some chiros out there that specialize in scoliosis. Unfortunately for me, very very few of them work with post-surgical patients- most of the practitioners I’ve come across work with folks with scoliosis like yours.

      1. Lydia*

        This is a little late but hopefully you see it. I’m an ergonomics rep in my company (not an actual ergonomics expert, but with some in-house training, etc.) and I also have a terrible back myself so just wanted to give you some info I know has helped me and that I share when doing ergonomic assessments).

        -The most important aspect for backrests (chair or cushion) is that the lumbar support needs to fit your back, everyone is different. Test out different options and figure out which one has the support at the right height, depth and firmness to support you. E.g. I’m tall and most chairs have the support too low for me.
        -Exercise balls work for some people but most people, especially those with damaged/weaker core and back muscles like me, will end up compensating for their tired muscles resulting in worse posture/pain over time. If you do use one and like it I suggest frequent breaks in a chair to rest your muscles.
        -As mentioned above height is another consideration with a ball: you want to ensure your seat and keyboard can still be at an appropriate height – when sitting and typing knees and elbows should both be bent at 90-120 degree angles. If you have an adjustable keyboard tray and can get the right size ball this is achievable, but I’d caution against a too tall ball as suggested above if you have existing back issues as having your knees at significantly greater than 90 degrees will transfer your weight more to your feet which will increase lower back stress and thus likely increase pain (for most people, some people love this tilted forward posture).
        -I second sit stand desks and frequent breaks as others suggested.

        I hope the above is helpful and you can find some relief. Keep us updated.

  12. EA*

    So I had a little talk with my boss and he wanted me to work on softening some of my emails. I wrote a follow up yesterday that stated “Hi __ can you please submit your _ as soon as possible. I have attached a template for convenience, Thanks, EA” (This was about the third reminder). He felt like that was brusk and frustrated, and I should have said something like “Hi _ I am so sorry to bother you and I know you are really busy, but can you please submit _ if you can? If I can do anything to help let me know, thank you for all your help on this project”

    Just for some background – he tends to fixate on stupid picky things, such as this. My official manager knows this and says I just need to roll with it, because he will always find something stupid and small to fixate on. I generally just do what he says. In this case I am worried softening to this extent will make me look bad. This email was fine in my organization, and I get several like it daily. I’ve read about women over apologizing and justifying, and I just think writing emails like that will make me look stupid. I don’t think I should have to apologize for asking someone to do their job. Thoughts?

    1. Collie*

      I have a supervisor with a similar perspective. Can you try to use that sort of language in only emails he will see?

      1. Sadsack*

        Yeah, but her first email was absolutely not harsh whatsoever. I would not go with EA’s latter suggestion. EA, I think you should write what you think is appropriate, especially if your boss is going to nitpick anyway. In the example above, did your boss say what he would have written instead? Ask him next time.

          1. Sadsack*

            I’d feel that it is if I were the one who would be looking like a complete ass instead of a professional person. His suggestion is really overdoing it.

            1. Collie*

              I guess I’ve just gotten used to having to regularly demean myself at my job to get things moving.

          2. Florida*

            In this case, I don’t think it is really about fighting a battle. If OP approaches it with the attitude of “I am really trying to understand how to do this better”.

        2. Sadsack*

          Sorry, I missed the part that the latter suggestion came from the boss! Ugh. That is terrible. Is he serious that that is what he would have written? Ridiculous.

          1. EA*

            Yes. 100% serious that is how he writes emails. The worst part is, I already softened that email.

            What I wanted to write was “Hi _, can you please send you _ thanks, EA) (and hit reply from the previous reminder)

            I felt like I already did soften it.

            1. Charlotte Collins*

              For the record, I am the kind of person who would be annoyed by your boss’s version of the message.

              1. S0phieChotek*

                I agree. I thought the first version EA had was respectful and not brusque. There’s plenty of literature out there that (as I vaguely recall) suggests that being abjectly apologetic about everything and putting sorry etc. before perfectly reasonable requests only undermines the validity of the request or the authority of the person making that request

                2. YawningDodo*

                  Yep, this. In recent months I’ve made a very deliberate effort to stop pre-emptively apologizing when making a reasonable request, stop saying “I just wanted to ___”, and stop phrasing mandatory things as though they’re optional. There’s being polite, and then there’s undermining yourself.

            2. Jenniy*

              As horrible as this sounds, are you female? I’ve had this kinda thing from a boss or 2, and it was never said to male counterparts in the same position.

              I refused because Trion and Bran aren’t required to write in such a way

    3. Anna No Mouse*

      Ugh! I hate this. If you’re being polite and professional, why do you need to soften this language to this extent? You could say something along the lines of: ““Hi __ can you please submit your _ as soon as possible. I have attached a template for convenience. I understand you’re quite busy and appreciate you taking the time to submit this. Thanks, EA”

      It’s one thing to acknowledge how busy someone is, but it’s another to sound, well, kind of sniveling, which is how his wording makes you sound. Like “Gee whiz, I know you’re awfully busy, but maybe, could you possibly, if it’s not too much trouble do this thing that it’s part of your job to do, if you don’t mind, of course?”

      1. EA*

        I know. It’s just how he is.

        Like I wonder what he would think would be rude. It would be one thing if I was like “Hi _ can you please submit _ it was due yesterday” But like, I said please!

        I felt like I softened it. What I really wanted to write was “Hi _, Can you please submit you _ thanks, EA” (replied from the original reminder email) but I went back and softened it.

        Your template is good. I’ll see if it works.

      2. Sadsack*

        Yeah, I agree. Often, if I have to follow up with someone, I’ll simply write, “Can you please tell me the status of my request?” or “Have you had a chance to review my email?”. EA’s boss would probably have a fit over it.

        1. Charlotte Collins*

          I often say something like, “I can’t find that I received a response.” (I know how to use my email system but many of my colleagues don’t, so it makes it seem that I might have lost the email somehow. In my heart I know that I never received the response, but it keeps the touchy people from getting hurt.)

          1. S0phieChotek*

            Yes, I do this too. (Despite what I wrote above, I feel like I need to give them an “out”).

            Annoys me too (when I am 99.9% sure I never received a response), but every once in a while it has worked–like the person (furiously?) forwards me the original–and lo! they sent it to the wrong address or when the go to forward me the original, they see it was sent to the wrong person.

            1. Shell*

              I also do this. I am very good about my email (helps that I don’t have that many emails per day, compared to say, sales), but sometimes I miss things in my spam filter. Person A from domain goes through without a hitch sixty million times, then gets spam filtered. (Or person B from the same domain gets spam filtered.) And then I feel like an idiot :P

              So most of the time the “I don’t think I saw your email” means “you didn’t send it” but occasionally it really was “I didn’t see it.” Saves face for both sides.

        2. Salyan*

          I had a boss once who insisted that every email I write be a full letter, complete with salutation, a paragraph of text and ‘Regards, Salyan.’ I wasted more time agonizing over how to turn a simple request or notification (i.e. Please call Bob back.) into a full paragraph of text!

      3. Ama*

        Yes, I use that “I know you’re busy” sentence a lot when working with our volunteer group (who really are all terribly busy), especially if I have to send someone a fourth post-deadline reminder to return a crucial document or if something comes up and I have to have a response in only a day or two .

        I only use “Sorry to ask you this” if it really is a super big, above and beyond favor (like they’ve spent the last three weeks reviewing documents for us, and I have to ask them to do more three days before deadline because another reviewer dropped out).

    4. Snow*

      I think the second email is just giving people excuses not to give you the work! A big part of my role is chasing up data from other departments as you say you’re not sorry for bothering them so why say you are.

      I would normally leave out the as soon as possible though and give them a firm deadline (or occasionally a bit saying the deadline was *insert date here* if it’s past) as a nudge. Could something like ‘This is required by *date* and will be included in report published on *date*’ be included. I often get replies from people who say they can’t make the initial deadline but give me a date before publication which works for me and if the email were longer your boss might not think it’s brusk (even though it didn’t read that way to me)

      1. EA*

        So I already do this. I send an initial email with the template and the due date. Then I send a second follow up reminder to those who missed the deadline. (the deadline is set artificially early) This was the THIRD email to this woman. And I hit reply so she can scroll down and see the other emails.

        2. Wendy Darling*

          I think we can safely conclude that she’s a buttface and is criticizing your specific wording as a way to draw focus away from the fact that her crap is late. I think the more important question is how important it is to you to cater to her. Like, is this a person who you can mentally go “UGH” and send an email all “Sorry about that! I really need your (thing that is totally late) though, do you know when you might be able to get it done?” Or do you just literally use her exact wording in the future? :P

        3. Undine*

          Since this is about a specific recipient, can you say ask your boss something like “In general, I find I get good responses with the emails I’ve been using. I agree I need a different strategy with Maire Antoinette. Do you have specific reason to believe this will work with her? What do you think she really needs to hear?”

          I tend to be softer in tone with people I don’t know than people I’ve worked with a lot, and with people who are out of my usual scope of reviewers. So if I’m writing the head of accounting, who I wouldn’t normally contact, I would be more likely to say “I know you’re busy” to emphasize that I don’t normally contact them. Someone I work with every day, I would be more likely to feel , hey, I’m busy, you’re busy, we’re all busy.

          I do find it helpful to offer ways to make this easier, depending on the person, your position, their position, etc. What I do sometimes is offer someone multiple ways to respond. I assume you’re using a template to streamline the process for yourself and others, but depending on the type of input, some people would rather discuss it over the phone or give you a few notes. At one job I scheduled a time to sit the two product managers in a room for half an hour to get them to go through a document. They knew they had to do it, but they couldn’t carve the time out themselves, and they agreed this was the best way to make them do it! Or in some cases, people just really hate filling out forms and letting them do verbally can help — if you have the time and flexibility to do it, of course. I think showing you have flexibility is more effective than cringing.

          Also saying exactly what you need from someone, reducing the scope, can help — “Marie, I understand you may not have time to review this in depth, but you are the only one who has the cake numbers and the results from the sheep shearing. We really don’t want to send this to Versailles with incorrect information. Can you please review section 6 and the paragraph at the bottom of page 8?”

    5. throwdetta*

      First time commenting…

      I’m in the minority but I find questions that end in a period (rather than a quotation mark) to be brusque in tone. Also they’re technically incorrectly punctuated. Would using your original text but adding a question mark do the trick?

      I am admittedly a stickler.

      1. Rat Racer*

        The problem with email is that people don’t realize the difference a period versus a question mark makes in the tone.

        My boss, who is very wise, has taught me to assume that everyone always has the best intentions. It takes me some practice, and some deep breathing, to get there (esp when I get an email in all caps with multiple exclamation points) but it really does pay dividends. A fight with a colleague over email tone is a total waste of time, and some people just aren’t very good at writing, period. Frankly, I’ll take an email that is too brusk over an email that doesn’t make any sense any day of the week.

        1. Papyrus*

          This is slightly off-topic, but at my job we were required to send three “recognitions” to other coworkers – forced Great Jobs! basically. Everyone knows that they’re meaningless, but I received one from a coworker that said “Thanks for doing a great job?”

          WHY would she end it with a question mark? I know in reality this person isn’t mean or vindictive at all, and these recognitions are just quotas, but of course it set off my tendency to over-analyze everything into overdrive.

          1. Amadeo*

            LOL, depending on my relationship with that coworker I probably would have just decided she was being a little sarcastic (since everyone knows those things don’t really mean anything anyway, as you said) and had a good laugh about it.

      2. Florida*

        That’s funny because I get annoyed when people ask a question when they really mean it as a statement. For example, when the boss says, “Would you please send me the TPS report by Friday?” but she really means, “Please send me the TPS report by Friday.”

        A question implies that it’s negotiable. (“No boss, but I can get it to you by Monday.”) There are situations where that’s appropriate. But I get annoyed when people use questions when they are really statements.

        1. Lily in NYC*

          Interesting – I would much prefer to receive it as a question. Which is why I try not to get annoyed at these things – everyone has different writing styles (easier said than done – I have my own pet peeves as well).

      3. Correct punctuation, please!*

        THANK YOU. It annoys me to no end when people end questions with periods. (More from a grammatical standpoint than anything, but I do agree a period reads a lot more brusque than a question mark.)

    6. Rat Racer*

      I agree that this is a stupid, picky thing. I get emails all the time that I think are brusk from managers, peers and even my own direct reports. Because I am an adult, I recognize that it is my fault if someone has to ask me 3 times for something, and as long as they’re not being overtly rude, I put away my lizard brain and get on with what needs to be done.

      Your boss is acting like a prima donna. But, if it’s no skin off your nose to send a highly flowery and apologetic email for asking him 3 times to deliver his __ report, then I’d pick another hill to die on. But seriously, this is stupid.

      1. EA*

        See this is what I am saying. I feel like it is skin off my nose. Stupid stuff I cater to him on. I just think that my reputation in the organization will suffer. I will seem overly passive and weak.

        1. EA*

          Also – IDK if I was 100% clear. I didn’t write that email to my boss. I wrote it to someone else in the organization, and cc’ed my boss. It is my job to coordinate a report that needs to be submitted from various departments.

          He saw my email, and assumed the person receiving it would be offended. The person who got it in no way indicated she was offended.

          1. Sadsack*

            Here’s the thing…you wrote that he finds fault all the time anyway, even when you soften the message. So, why bother with further changes? Will he not continue to suggest ways you could have written it better, no matter what you write? His suggestion will make you sound like an idiot and you don’t want that. If no one is calling him complaining about you, I say keep doing what you are doing. And be really selective about when you include him on emails.

    7. Sualah*

      Ugh, I would have just removed the request portion altogether. “Hi X, Please submit your form as soon as possible. It was due on Y. I have attached a template for your convenience. Thanks, EA” so I don’t even want to think about how your boss would respond to that! You are totally in the right.

      Not really related, but this made me think of the webcomic Basic Instructions and trying to the get RJ-17 form completed.

      http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2008/10/6/how-to-correct-a-coworkers-behavior.html

    8. my two cents*

      …receiving his re-write would drive me batty. I started cringing reading that ‘edit’. He’s absolutely giving you the ‘ladies shouldn’t be too aggressive’ sexist bs, asking you to essentially gravel for additional information,as opposed to being able to send a politely concise request.

      The “If I can do anything to help let me know, thank you for all your help on this project” isn’t too bad, and that might be an easy compromise to ‘soften’ it a smidge. But I would also mention that the rest sounds way too apologetic for requesting a mandatory, not optional, response.

      If the recipient is a higher level than your boss within the org(presumably it’s your boss’s ‘voice’ you’re trying to align with), then yeah – some softer apologetic language for the repeat prodding may be OK. But otherwise, come on… lol

      1. my two cents*

        boss as opposed to your actual manager that you report to – I’m assuming that you’re an EA that supports the boss and sends emails on their behalf, but you report to the manager.

    9. The bread burglar*

      Ugh.

      That sends the wrong message. Asking I’m sorry to bother you and I know you are busy but can you please submit x gives the indication to me that it isn’t important, you would like me to do it when I get time. It reads as too submissive and naggy. Especially if its a third reminder. I don’t know why but I read his email as more like a bad parent pleading with their kid to clean their room.

      You shouldn’t have to nag people to do their work. Or apologise for it. Your email was polite, assertive, and got to the point.

      Would adding his last line help any? I don’t see any real harm in adding something to the end after the bit about the template saying, if you need any assistance please let me know, Thanks for all your help with ….”

      2. Sadsack*

        EA says her boss is a man and that’s the way he writes! Yikes. I guess it’s just some people’s style regardless of gender.

        1. EA*

          He is a man. I am a woman. And yes. He writes like that. Basically he is the hugest yes man push over ever.

        2. Shell*

          I regularly email another person who writes similarly–not as denigrating as EA’s boss, but definitely very polite, requests couched in a lot of softening language…and also a man. He isn’t a pushover at all and has pushed back on me when I’ve misunderstood the situation, he just does it very (extremely, absurdly) politely. (Frankly, in those early days I probably deserved to be shut down a little harder. :) )

          Also, of all the people I regularly talk to, he is by far the easiest to work with, super efficient and organized. Some people really just write like that.

    11. LizB*

      Ugh, your boss’s suggested email is way over the top. When I soften my emails I usually end up in a middle ground between your original email (which I honestly think is fine) and his suggestions — something like “Hi X, can you give me an update on the status of ___? We need this information to be submitted as soon as possible so Project Y can move forward on schedule. I have attached a template for your convenience. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there’s anything I can do to help. Thank you.”

    12. Tomato Frog*

      I personally write “Thanks” with an exclamation point when I’m making a short, to-the-point request. In my head this makes the email read as brief & informal rather than brusque & peremptory. It is quite possible that it makes no difference for the reader but hope springs eternal.

    13. Jennifer*

      I apologize for literally everything at work, because I come off as “abrasive” myself if I don’t apologize out the wazoo. It’s a female thing.

      So yes, you really should have to apologize for nagging someone to do their job, or else they get mad at you.

    14. Student*

      A person like this will always find something to complain about. So, if it’s an option, give him something to complain about that will (1) really attract his full attention (2) is fairly harmless to you (3) you can plausibly keep going forever without full resolution.

      That;s how I survived having a mother like this. Pick something to push the button on that’s not quite far enough over the line to do anything but complain about, and that you aren’t emotionally invested in, and push it hard. Meanwhile, get important stuff done while she freaks out about the button I pushed.

    15. Jen RO*

      Honestly your version does seem brusque to me. I would go with something between yours and your boss’s: “Hi, could you please submit your thing as soon as possible? I’ve attached a template for your convenience – please let me know if you need any help! Thanks, EA”

      1. Ultraviolet*

        While I don’t think EA’s email is actually brusque, I do think it could be softened further without getting obsequious. To do so, I’d also add something like “Please let me know if there’s anything I can do to help!” and maybe say “Can you please submit your X as soon as possible so we can put it with Y and Z?” A little context, even if it’s something the recipient already knows, can reduce the chance of the request being read as nagging or demanding.

        I think the boss’s suggested wording is over the top (ridiculous, really). Maybe he’s got a reasonable motive–like he’s aware it really helps to treat this recipient deferentially and with acknowledgments of how important and useful they are–but lacks the writing skill to accomplish what he wants?

      2. Marvel*

        I agree, and think that in general this is a culture thing that varies by organization and department. If I sent an email like that in my current workplace, my boss would probably come to my office that same day just to say “hey, you might want to soften that a little”; in other places I’ve worked, though, it would go over just fine. I do think the boss’s version is overkill (to the point where it actually sounds kind of passive-aggressive), but the OP’s could be softer.

    17. TootsNYC*

      There’s somewhere in the middle, surely!

      I mean jeez, people shouldn’t have to apologize for simply doing their jobs.

      Maybe less formal:
      Hi, Susie
      I need your ___ as soon as possible; my deadline is ____ [ or other payoff/reason here].
      In case you need it, I’ve attached a template.

      Thanks much.

      And point out that YOUR email has the tremendous advantage of brevity. That it’s not polite to waste people’s time on all the gushy stuff.

    18. University Officer of Administration*

      Thanks for the timely reminder! I just realized that I sent a brusque e-mail, a moment ago! Now I’m going to e-mail an apology. (I’m a woman, but I tend to be brusque– in the name of “efficiency.”)

    19. Snazzy Hat*

      “I am so sorry to bother you and I know you are really busy” reminds me of the many voicemail messages my mother used to leave on my phone (she’s cut back a LOT, especially since my schedule is less varied now). “Hey, you’re probably in class/in choir practice/at work” while I’m in a counselor’s session or at a concert or doing laundry. Nine times out of ten the assumption is wrong. IIRC, she even suspected I had choir practice after I left the group.

      But I certainly agree that you would have wasted my busy time by having me read “I am so sorry to bother you and I know you are really busy” in the first place. I’m picturing Monty Python’s God yelling “get on with it!”

    20. Not So NewReader*

      “Gee, Boss, you know I tried writing emails like that a while ago. I was told several times under no uncertain terms that I sounded wordy and spineless. I was told it would hurt me professionally.”

      There. Done.

      Now if you are not comfy with telling an almost-truth like that let me know. And I will post three times that the email sounds wordy and spineless. Then you will be honestly able to stay that you have been told several times that the email sounds wordy and spineless.

  13. Nicole J.*

    I work for an event caterer and we usually promote people to event managers internally – which means I know them, know how they work, and have a good feel for how they’ll do before they get that responsibility. But we’re always looking for more people to work on a freelance basis. I am interviewing someone on Monday. Fairly new to that, and am looking for tips on how to get the best idea of how they’ll be able to cope in an event environment. Any ideas appreciated!

    If we like them, we’ll do an assistant managing shift first, before a full shift so we’ll get a chance to try each other out in action.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Event planner here. When I go on interviews, I get asked a lot about flexibility and multitasking. Ask for examples of times when something went unexpectedly wrong and how they handled the situation. Event environments always need someone quick on their feet with problem-solving and creative solutions. I also get asked a lot about how I handle high-pressure situations. Depending on your philosophy, you want someone who complements your style of handling the situation or mimics it.

      1. Nicole J.*

        Thanks. Not too bothered about individual style but you’re right, it’s that quality I want to try to get a feel for.

      2. SL #2*

        Yes! Even when I wasn’t applying for event-planner roles, people would look at my resume, see the sections that addressed previous roles where I did 90% event planning, and most of the time, their next question would be “tell me about a time when something went wrong at an event and you didn’t expect it?” I think it’s the default for event-planning, but in any business situation, it shows that you can think on your feet even in high-pressure situations.

    2. Sunflower*

      Definitely ask questions about how they handle stress and constantly changing deadlines and priorities. You want to make sure they can handle working in a reactive environment. Primarily you want to find out if they can keep their cool and keep their game face on even if everything feels like it’s going to ish. You want to ask about attention to detail but it’s also really important that you find out how they deal with things not going to plan. Event managers can plan all they want but 99% chance that the day of, something will go wrong. It’s important to plan but it’s really more important to be the kind of person who can cope when things don’t go as planned and handle making last minute decisions.

  14. Fallow*

    I’ve just been hired at the company I interned for 2 years in college. I am really excited! I liked my current position but it was fairly toxic and there were management issues that weren’t going to change.

    My issue is that I had given them a month’s notice on the verbal offer per my current employer asking for a month to train my replacement. The job I’m in isn’t niche but I had a lot of knowledge that my co-workers didn’t, and my boss wants me to transfer that knowledge to someone else.

    I let HR know that I would need a month and they replied that the hiring manager (my old boss) wouldn’t be happy with that time frame (slightly unrelated but the entire hiring process has taken almost half a year to get to this point). I said I could possibly negotiate 3 weeks. I receive an email from hiring manager that says he needs me to start in 3 weeks, so I relay that to current boss and he agrees. I confirm three weeks to HR and hiring manager.

    Yesterday I receive an email from the hiring manager urging me to start earlier if I can. He explains that there have been some resignations (former co-workers) and the spot needs to be filled immediately. I don’t feel right asking my current boss for another week. I have/had a great working relationship here and I don’t want to jeopardize that. How can I tactfully say “no” to my new boss without offending him?

    Thanks and Happy Friday!

    1. IT_Guy*

      People leave companies all the time and that’s the risk that they take with not documenting procedures. They totally understand that and unless there are extenuating circumstances I would reconsider. The industry standard is 2 weeks, so I would suggest you go with that.

    2. Dawn*

      “…urging me to start earlier if I can”

      Well… you can’t. “I’m terribly sorry Fergus, but I absolutely cannot move up my first day at New Company. I would in a heartbeat if I had the flexibility to, but my hands are tied.”

      Assuming, of course, that the above is true and there’s nothing you can do!

      1. CMT*

        Hmm. I’d go the opposite way in this situation. I’d say see ya later to the old job. I wouldn’t want to risk the new job pulling the offer.

    3. Pineapple Incident*

      Oof that’s rough- sorry you’re in that spot! I would just try going back to them and saying something to the effect of “I’m sorry, but I feel that I can’t shorten my notice with my current employer. It just wouldn’t feel right to renege on what we had agreed to since I’m training a replacement for my role.” and just re-up your enthusiasm to hit the ground running on your agreed-upon start date.

      Important to remember is the fact that you’re not doing anything wrong by saying you can’t start sooner. Also, they would want just as much reliability from you if you were leaving their company as you’re promising to your current employer.

    4. Crylo Ren*

      I would frame my reply to the hiring manager in terms of wanting to keep to the timeline you agreed on so that you can ensure you are doing your due diligence by your soon-to-be-former employer, and the three/four weeks agreed upon is absolutely necessary to make sure that they are well set up to function without you. I would think a reasonable employer would see the justice of that request and also understand that you would extend that same professional courtesy to them when it came time for you to move on.

      I would honestly be taking their increasing pressure on your start date as a yellow flag. If they really want the right person in the position, I would think a week wouldn’t make much of a difference. It starts the work relationship off on a bad foot IMO.

    5. Florida*

      It sounds like you told Current Job you would stay until X date. New Job agreed that you would start on X date.
      I would stick to that.

      You can tell New Boss, “I talked to my current boss about pushing up my last day but it looks like it won’t work. We really need to finish up a few projects and it is going to take the full three weeks (or whatever the time frame is). I know you want to start earlier, but I need to honor the commitment that I already made.”

    6. Not So NewReader*

      “Sorry. I am not going to be able to do that. See, I gave my employer my word that I would work the three weeks. I owe my employer that. I would do the same for your company, too, if the situation were reversed. I feel it’s important for a person to keep their word, don’t you?”

    7. CMT*

      You really need to balance your sense of duty to the old job with the risk that the new job will pull your offer. If I had the chance to leave a toxic job, I wouldn’t risk it, even if I thought it might mean a burned bridge. Who wants a bridge to a toxic workplace, anyway?

  15. mockingbird2081*

    After much debate I decided to tell my boss and mentor that I was going to be looking for a new job, I have worked for him for 13 years. My boss asked me to guarantee I would work for him until February 28th (2 months from date I told him I was going to start looking) as I was in charge of rolling out a new project. I agreed.

    In mid March I received a job offer and because I had given him technically 2 1/2 months notice and due to some other circumstances I gave my boss a 12 days’ notice instead of 14. I had been preparing my current office for my departure for the entire 2 1/2 months up until this point. My boss at the beginning was very supportive and understanding of my desire to spread my wings but that has since changed.

    Once I informed my boss I was leaving it appears I have become the ‘trouble child’. My boss has started criticizing everything I was doing and things I have done in the past. He has never done this before. He started dropping hints that I was probably going to hate the new position and that the new company was unprofessional for only giving me a chance to give a 12 day notice instead of a 14 day notice. His wife has been more involved in the office since I announced I was leaving and she has turned into the silent one. She doesn’t acknowledge that I am even in the room.
    They felt they should do something before I left so they had lunch brought in, half the meal was spent in silence the other half his wife talked to the other member of the staff (small office) about her upcoming holiday plans, family, life in general and I was just ignored.

    With the small office setting my boss has become not just a mentor but a friend (no BFF’s but friends) I have worked hard for him for 13 years and for 13 years they have given me praise and encouragement. I am trying to just let things roll off my back but I admit it is hard. It has been 2 months since I left and I am loving my new position. But I worry about needing him for future references and honestly, saving the ‘friendship’. I also worry that perhaps I did handle it wrong. Is there any way I can smooth this over?

    1. ElCee*

      He sounds like he is taking your departure way too seriously. As Allison says, it’s business, not a marriage. You did the right thing. Congrats on the new position!

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        Agreed. Good luck at your new job! I would probably just wait a couple of months and maybe try to reach out if you’re really interested in maintaining a relationship with them- perhaps they’ll have cooled off by then.

    2. GT*

      My boss responded the same way when I left. He seemed to take it as a personal betrayal, which was unfortunate. Getting a 40% wage bump was the driving factor. He’s come around now, but it took him a bit. I hope your soon to be former boss gets over it soon, too.

    3. plain_jane*

      After I left my past two jobs I’ve sent my boss a few relevant articles (generally around the 6 month point, and then again when it seems really interesting), which I think has helped reset the relationship in a positive manner. Sometimes it leads to a lunch and we catch up and reiterate that we enjoyed working with each other.

    4. neverjaunty*

      No. You’ve been entirely professional – you didn’t give 12 days’ notice, you gave him over 2 months’ notice that you were leaving, and you kept your promise to stay on to finish a project. Your boss is taking your departure as a personal affront, which is his issue, not yours. Remain polite and professional and leave with a clear conscience.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I’d let sleeping dogs lie. If you say anything it’s could just make matters worse. Remember the better times, speak warmly of the both of them to others and let the rest go.

      By the time you need them (him) for a reference they could have run away to Bermuda and no one can find them. Or you could discover that you know enough people tangent to your old job that you do not need their reference. Or it could be someone offers you a job and references never come up. Let your old boss sort out his thoughts by himself. Time may make this whole question moot.

  16. vivace*

    I was informed at new year’s that I’d be getting a 10% raise, with the string attached that they didn’t know when exactly I’d see it in my paycheck. I assumed maybe a couple months? However it’s mid April and I still haven’t received it, and when I ask I get a runaround about clients not paying, can you be patient. The company has also made several new hires (new positions) since Jan 1, so what’s the deal? They can allocate hundreds of thousands to new salaries but not a couple grand for me?

    1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I would ask your supervisor for a face to face meeting.

      In the meeting I would ask if he has an update for the timeline for your promised raise. Then be silent.

      If he gets exasperated, harps on you to be patient, etc. I would take it as a sign that you are being stringed along and won’t be getting the raise.

  17. Brett*

    On a thread earlier in the week, I had talked about my neighbor suddenly dying, and the issue with locating his employer.

    Fortunately, his employer got ahold of his emergency contact and found out what happened. Several of his co-workers were able to make the celebration of his life that his family held for him. Many of his family members thought he was retired and no longer worked, much less knowing who his employer was!

  18. ElCee*

    I’ve been hunting for a new job but have put it on hold for a couple reasons, the main one being I realized that my longevity here basically gets me a 6-month 100% paid parental leave and we are thinking of having kids very soon. Some of the things that used to bother me about this job have improved, as has my attitude about it in general, and there is a promotion in the works, but some of the other aspects have not (the job function is not really a growth industry and there’s a low, but present, chance of reorganization that would affect my job in the future). Am I being too complacent? I know there are no fertility guarantees, but it would be a while before I get this level of leave were I to move anywhere else.

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      If someone had told me 6 years ago I would still be working where I am working, I wouldn’t have believed them. However, once I got pregnant, quality of life, flexibility, and FMLA + additional leave were huge factors. Two kids later, I am still here. Maybe I am complacent, but the picture changed and I had to choose what was best for my family and the overall picture. Really, only you can make the choice what is best for you. Good luck!

    2. Dawn*

      I think there’s this idea in the general social psyche that a job has to be an all or nothing thing, where you’re either Passionately Loving Every Minute or Buring the Building Down in Pursuit Of Your True Passion.

      It’s absolutely fine- not just fine but well, good, healthy, sane, understandable, etc – to want to stay at a job because the perks outweigh the negatives. For you, the perk of parental leave outweighs the negatives *for the time being*, and that’s an excellent reason to stay. Perhaps in the future, the negatives will outweigh the perks, and then you can reevaluate.

      I think it’s a disservice to, oh, probably 98% of the working world to have this idea that we’re all supposed to be PASSIONATE about every little teeny thing about our jobs and if we’re not then, of course, we should be looking for a new job. Like… no one is happy with 100% of their job 100% of the time. That’s impossible.

    3. Kat*

      that is a wonderful wonderful benefit you have and certainly does NOT make you complacent. You have earned those benefits and you should definitely use them! I for one am jealous of you as I get ready to think about baby #2.

    4. Observer*

      I’m not sure what you are worrying about? It sounds like the job is ok, reasonably stable, with some perks that are important to you. As long as you don’t have any illusions it makes sense to stay put for now. Obviously there are no guarantees, so you don’t want to get SO comfortable that you don’t do anything to improve your skills. But, otherwise it sounds like a sensible move.

  19. Not a Real Giraffe*

    From out an outside perspective, I realize this sounds like a silly problem. But what, if anything, can we say to a constant cougher?

    My coworker coughs all day long, every single day. It’s not a hacking cough, like she’s sick, but a dry quick cough like she needs to have some water. Sometimes it’s a couple of these in succession, sometimes it’s spaced throughout the day. On Monday, it was every fifteen seconds for 5 hours. It’s not background noise that is easily ignored; it’s incredibly distracting and it bothers my entire team. We’ve actually had people from other teams who sit on our floor make comments about it to us.

    We’ve asked her if she’s sick, we’ve offered her water and tea and cough drops. She has accepted none of it, and just says it’s an “allergy” and that the office air makes her throat dry. (And yet, she won’t drink any water to abate the dryness.)

    In the grand scheme of things, this is a small annoyance, I know. But it’s been going on everyday for almost the entire 5 months that she’s been here. I’m afraid some of us are at our wits’ end and are about to shout something along the lines of “FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP COUGHING,” which I think we’d all like to avoid. What can we do?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I think… nothing. It’s up to her to decide how she wants to manage her health, including her dry cough.

    2. Redrum*

      This probably isn’t the best way to handle it but…
      We had a loud cougher that was driving everyone nuts. So she would cough and then one of us would cough just like she did just to mimic her. Pretty soon everyone coughing after she did and she got the point.

      1. Erin*

        Really? I have a chronic lung disease. If people did that I’d be really, really hurt. Sorry our lifelong ailments are such an inconvenience for everyone.

        Can we liken this to say, a baby crying in a grocery store? It’s a baby, and they’re going to cry, and the mother still has to buy groceries. Mind your own business and deal with it.

        1. ThatGirl*

          OK, mockery isn’t great, but do you cough constantly? Do you try to mitigate it?

          I mean, I feel bad when I’m coughing post-cold for a few days. It’s just kind of annoying to listen to. There has to be some middle ground, it sounds like the person here hasn’t tried cough drops, tea/water, or any other steps.

          1. Erin*

            I do try, and I do step away and out of the office if it’s a real coughing fit.

            Probably won’t help the asker of the question here, but for what it’s worth I’ve been coughing a lot less since I’ve been doing yoga on a regular basis.

          2. Observer*

            No, it sounds like she has not tried in her office mates’ presence. The kind of cough being described is NOT something that most people find comfortable. If she’s not using those things, it is almost certainly due to the fact that they either don’t work or have other problems for her.

        2. Not a Real Giraffe*

          Yeah, I would never take this approach. I agree it’s hurtful, and more passive aggressive than I’d ever like to be.

          Thanks for your perspective about the chronic condition; I hadn’t thought about that. (And as someone with asthma, I really should have!) I agree with Betty below that I’m sure she’s aware of and self-conscious of it. Here’s hoping we can all figure out how to tune it out!

        3. Pretend Scientist*

          I hear you on the not being able to prevent it, but being near a crying baby in a grocery store or on an airplane is likely for a short time, and then it’s over. Five months of nearly non-stop coughing for hours a day is a whole different ballgame.

      2. F.*

        Wow. I have cough-variant asthma. While I try to handle it through medications and staying hydrated, I do still cough. A lot. To mimic someone for a chronic health condition is just shameful.

      3. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

        LOL. I only laugh because I think my co-workers tried this on me but it backfired.

        I cough a lot due to allergies. Cough drops and water don’t work.

        My co-workers all started coughing after I coughed at one point. I then jokingly yelled “It’s not a competition!” thinking it would be lighthearted humor. Everyone got dead quite. Needless to say it did not stop my coughing but it stopped theirs! Which I thought was a weird coincidence at the time but I guess maybe they were being jerks about it and got accidentally called out.

        ROFL.

    3. Batshua*

      What about a humidifier? If it really is dry air, that should help. I’m thinking of the travel size kind that you can use bottled water with.

      1. Betty (the other Betty)*

        An office humidifier could be a great idea if the air is really dry. I wonder if the HVAC people could add an office-wide system?

    4. Betty (the other Betty)*

      Sounds annoying. And if it is annoying for you, it must be awful for the coughing coworker, too. And I’m sure she knows that people are annoyed at her and talking about her.

      She isn’t contagiously sick. She doesn’t want your cough drops or water for whatever reason (maybe because she’s been living with this cough for a long time and knows what is and isn’t effective at stopping it).

      If her productivity is super low because she can’t get any work done for any reason (such as a continuous cough), that’s a management problem, and her manager should address it.

      Short of finding her a private office with a door and a way to move her there that is polite and kind, I don’t think you can do anything (but I’m sure someone will correct me if I am wrong).

    5. Erin*

      Ooooh chronic dry cougher here. I have cystic fibrosis.

      Maybe she does too, and she doesn’t feel obligated to tell her office that, since you know, it’s none of their business. When people ask if I have a cold or an allergy I usually just say yes.

      Assuming that’s it, you can’t do anything about it. She’s not contagious (again, if it’s CF specifically anyway, or another genetic disease), but you can’t do anything about it and neither can she.

      It’s really annoying when people try to give me cough drops. I know they mean well and I also know it will do absolutely nothing for me.

      She’s aware of it. She’s self conscious about it. And it undoubtedly is more of a hardship on her than on you.

      Sorry to be a little bit mean, but being on the other side of this, please just let it go. :/

    6. Sualah*

      No advice, just sympathy. In our office (but not my employer), there’s a woman who smokes three times a day and coughs all the time she’s at her desk. I’ve been at this location a year. I don’t work with her directly and she doesn’t sit too close to me, but close enough that my whole team can hear her hacking. Non stop.

      There are talks that my team might be moved. I am so hoping for it. There’s nothing else to say or do about it.

      1. Sadsack*

        We have a smoking cougher, too. Although who is to say that she doesn’t have some other problem that would cause her to cough even if she didn’t smoke? Idk. I try to ignore it.

    7. Shell*

      My throat gets really, really itchy sometimes during allergy season. And I cough too. Tea and water does nothing for me. Neither does cough drops (and I don’t particularly like the taste of many cough drops).

      I don’t think I cough as much as your colleague, but in my case, pretty much nothing works other than riding it out. You can try a humidifier, perhaps, but if that fails I think you’ll just have to live with it.

    8. Martin*

      She may be on medication that triggers the coughing. My aunt took Lisinopril for her blood pressure and this was a known side effect. ACE inhibitors like Lisinopril are processed through the lungs per her doctor. Hard candy and mints helped, but not much.

      1. QualityControlFreak*

        This is me. It’s annoying, but it’s not every fifteen minutes. Nothing I can do about it. However, we have a coworker who snerks and coughs much more loudly (and digs in their nose in the work area, even while having conversations with coworkers – ugh!) I don’t think anyone even notices my (quiet) dry cough. If they do, they’ve never said.

      2. Allstonian*

        I had to go off Lisinopril because of the coughing. And then it took three months to recover.

    9. MsMaryMary*

      Oh dear, are you my coworker? There is something in my office that sets off my allergies. I get that post nasal drip thing, and it results in sniffling and coughing. I use a nasal spray, but Claritin doesn’t help and I can only use Benadryl at night because it puts me to sleep. I do drink water and tea constantly, but I’m not sure it helps. The nasal spray keeps me from having a full on eyes and nose streaming attack, but I don’t know what else I could do.

      Other than having the building’s management inspect for mold, which I think is the problem. They refuse to unless a tenant takes on the cost.

      1. Tris Prior*

        +1. I was the chronic cougher at my last job. Because we had a mold problem in the building and the landlord wouldn’t fix it and we didn’t have the money to pay for mold treatment ourselves. Allergy mess helped me with the resulting congestion and itchy eyes but not the cough.

      2. Mreasy*

        I have chronic post nasal drip and have had a massive reduction in issues since I started using a neti pot! I was skeptical but it really has helped.

    10. Biff*

      I’d take it your boss/HR. Her medical problem is now impacting everyone. That’s now how it’s supposed to work.

      1. I'm a Little Teapot*

        It might, as Erin pointed out above, not be a medical condition she can do much about, and it would be really crappy to get her in trouble for her health problems. I’m sure it bothers her more than it bothers everyone else.

        1. Chocolate Teapot*

          In a similar vein, I have a cold at the moment and have been trying to sneeze in a discrete and dignified fashion. It is tricky.

          1. Rebecca Too*

            I married a chronic cougher. He’s in excellent health, there are no underlying issues other than awful seasonal allergies. OTC medication doesn’t touch it, and he’s had problems with certain prescription allergy meds making him very tired and unmotivated. A friend of ours recommended taking one teaspoonful of local honey (has to be “made” within a 50 mile radius of where you live) daily for 6 weeks in order to build up immunity to whatever is causing the allergy. My husband skeptically tracked down the local honey, took it daily, and…..it worked! Just putting that out there. So far, it’s been a cough-free Spring!

        2. CMT*

          I don’t think they’d be getting her in trouble. It may be that HR decides she moves to a private office to accommodate the issue, or something along those lines. I don’t think they’re going to fire her or dock her pay for coughing too much.

        3. TootsNYC*

          well, going to HR is not an automatic on-switch for “getting in trouble.”

          My HR person at my last job called me to talk about my cough. I went straight to “I’m so sorry it bothers other people,” and she was trying to say, “Are you OK? Have you seen a doctor? People are worried about you.”
          But it gave mea chance to say to someone, “I’ve been seeing a doctor for 4 years, we’ve tried everything, and nothing has helped.”

    11. Felicia*

      I don’t think you can say anything.

      No one coughs on purpose and no one wants to be coughing. I have a condition that causes a chronic cough among other things. I am working at addressing it, but it’s not easy to address. Water, tea and cough drops don’t really help that much, and if people constantly offer and keep offering me cough drops that would just make me self concious. I also prefer not to share the details of my medical conditions with my coworker.

      I understand why it annoys you, but there’s really nothing you can do.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      No clue on how you would suggest it, but vitamin D works on my coughs (allergy/dryness/etc.) Years ago, I found it worked so well that I quit buying cough medicine and I have not bought any in 20 years plus.

      Sometimes I have to work moldy environments then I have a meeting after work. I take some vitamin D and I won’t have any coughing jags at the meeting.

      1. Marvel*

        I would strongly suggest not bringing this up with the coworker. A lot of us who deal with chronic health conditions really do not appreciate “helpful” suggestions; we get a lot of them and they can be very annoying to deal with when you already know it’s something that’s not going to work.

    13. TootsNYC*

      Do you work with me?

      For one thing: she’s not coughing AT you. I get that it’s annoying to hear–but she probably can’t breathe.

      You could approach her and tell her that her cough is sometimes difficult to work alongside, and could she keep some water at her desk, or cough drops? And has she actually seen a doctor?

      For my case–water helps some, but then I have to pee a lot, and that has problems of its own.

    14. Observer*

      It might help if you all re-adjusted your expectations and attitude. You all seem to be assuming that she is coughing because she wants to, is too stupid to manage her health and / or she’s just inconsiderate. This is actually highly unlikely. Drinking water doesn’t do anything for a dry throat. Your assuming that it WILL help, and she’s choosing to not do something that would help is highly unrealistic.

      If it is practical, I would check with her about a humidifier or air filter. Depending on what’s actually triggering the problem, these might help (or might not, which is why it’s worth checking with her first.)

  20. BrownEyedGirl*

    I used to work for a union headquarters in an industry town (trying to be vague). I got laid off as part of structural changes. I want to stay in this town because I’ve got a house, a husband, etc., how should I try to present myself in my resume for positions at for-profit companies that may be in the same industry where I just worked for the major union.

    1. AnotherHRPro*

      I don’t think your circumstances change it much more than any other application. Explain why you want to work with the nonprofit and how your experience is transferable and will add value to their organization.

      1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

        Yeah. In other words, don’t focus so much on why you need THEM to give YOU a job. But instead show why YOU are best for THEM.

        Also good luck!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Tell them that you are familiar with the industry because of you work for the union.

      I assume you were in the union for your old job, can you leverage union connections to get a union position somewhere? Or is this nothing that appeals to you?

  21. Alston*

    So the “I got fired for taking initiative” letter and the chat me thinking. Half the people seemed to think the letter couldn’t be real, but a bunch of people said the knew people just like that. What’s the most tone deaf/out of touch thing you’ve heard at work?

    I had a coworker who one day was talking about how she was going to get a car, and really wanted to get a vanity plate with her name on it. But then she said she wasn’t sure if it was a good idea because what if she got in an accident, wouldn’t it make it too easy to find her? I asked if she would seriously do a hit and run. She said “of course, I wouldn’t want my insurance rates to go up.”

    What else have you guys heard?

    1. KathyGeiss*

      I once heard a colleague bragging about the feud she was in with her neighbours. The neighbour’s offenses didn’t seem that bad but her response was terrible (think calling bylaw officers everyday, purposefully killing their grass, etc). The worst part was that she thought it was totally normal and assumed everyone around her would agree with her. This was also a woman who actively talked about hating her husband’s child and wishing he would just “go away”.

    2. pumpkin scone*

      Oh, my boss is terribly tone deaf. I beg him to stick to written remarks when he has to talk publicly, because he says off the cuff things that are…ugh. For example, at an all-staff meeting, “You’re all wonderful. You all should get raises. Except you’re not, because I don’t control the budget…anyway, about parking…”

      1. Rovannen*

        We had an administrator giving out awards to students. One category was best effort. His opening comments were that these awards aren’t just for good students, some students try but just don’t measure up, etc. Would.not.stop.talking. I was sending shut-up vibes to him.

    3. taylor swift*

      I work at a mental health organization, and I have a family member with schizophrenia (all my coworkers kn0w.) Last year, a high-profile man in our state committed suicide – it was shocking to everyone. I was at the copy machine and a coworker stopped to talk with me about it, and she said to me “do you ever worry about your brother killing himself?”
      That was probably one of the most tone deaf things I’ve ever heard.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      I think my response to that would be something like “it might be harder to find you, but they still will, and then it won’t just be the cost of your insurance you have to deal with!”

    5. Dawn*

      I worked with a truly… unique… individual who, among other things, said that the reason Chris Brown abused Rhianna was because she was into S&M and she liked it. At work. To me. In the break room. In all sincerity. Thinking I’d just nod my head and agree.

      This person, Pat, would also wander around and start up conspiracy theory rants with anyone who was sitting still- during work hours! When both Pat and everyone else needed to be working! These rants would cover all *kinds* of topics, mainly about how the government was spying on everyone.

      1. AMT 2*

        I had a coworker rather like that, she was let go about six months ago due to the crazy… I think the most stunning thing she ever told me was about how the government had vaults in Antarctica that stored everybody’s DNA (in case of what I never found out). She also believed that dentists would implant tracking devices in your teeth, Russian soldiers training in Yellowstone, etc. – she refused to watch the news because the media lies about everything, she would only get her news from YouTube. Because apparently YouTube has better journalism standards than CNN?

      2. anon for this*

        I had as conspiracy theorist as a co-worker once as well. We worked for a state university. He thought the state was out to get everyone. I never had enough patience to ask him why he was working for the state. He also was single and no one would go out with him – another conspiracy. He would also go to Mexican restaurants where they give you menus, chips, and salsa to start you out and order a glass of water and sit there all night getting free chips and salsa refills. He loved going there during busy times. He would never pay. Finally the management banned him from one restaurant and I heard he was on his way to being banned from several more.

      3. Rob Lowe can't read*

        I also had a conspiracy theorist at one of my internships. I’m not sure which was worse: the fact that she was my ride to work (we were interning as part of the same academic program), or the fact that she shared her anti-vax conspiracy theories with the parents of our students and encouraged them to discontinue vaccinations for their children and spread the word about the evils of Big Pharma.

        (Although if I’m really being honest, the theory that annoyed me the most was that our government is made up of lizard people. In a way, I kind of understand how anti-vax is born of lack of scientific/medical understanding. Thinking that our political leaders are actually giant lizards disguised as humans is only indicative of a lacking grasp of reality.)

    6. Lucie*

      During a year-long internship (I’m about to graduate college), my boss argued with me about whether water was a human right. This is just one instance of many, for example arguing that welfare makes people lazy (I live in a socialist country in the EU). The industry was political lobbying for financial services and I am/was an underpaid, bleeding-heart socialist intern. Weird situation to say the least.

      Anyways, he thought it was hilarious to make me angry about social justice issues and after this debate about water as a human right or not he started leaving glasses of water on my desk randomly for a few days. I was not amused.

      1. Lucie*

        Almost forgot this gem: this was the same manager (again I was a young female intern in a male-dominated hierarchical structure) who, upon hearing that I had a few tattoos, said he was surprised because he ‘always pegged me as a shy, good little Catholic-raised girl’!

      2. I'm a Little Teapot*

        Several years ago, I was working part-time, unable to find another part-time job with a compatible schedule or another job in my field. So my income was quite low, and I was on state-subsidized health insurance – and I had just discovered I might have cancer.

        My boss, who had been working there full-time with benefits for years and probably made at least twice what I did, was an obnoxiously vocal libertarian. The night after I found I might have cancer, he was running his mouth about how government-subsidized health insurance shouldn’t exist because blah blah bootstraps blah the market is always right blah I shouldn’t have to pay any taxes ever what do you mean roads I drove to work on blah FREEDUMB. I quietly and calmly explained my situation, and said, still calmly, “You are saying that people like me should just lie down and die.”

        He shut up.

        (He also went on mocking rants about feminism to me. I’m a woman.)

    7. Florida*

      I worked at a nonprofit that served people with disabilities. Among other things, we taught deaf people their rights regarding interpreters and how to advocate if a doctor or someone didn’t want to pay for an interpreter. We also hired out sign language interpreters.

      I was floored when I learned that we did not invite relevant people to meetings (like inviting the IT guy to a meeting about the network) because we didn’t want to hire a sign language interpreter and didn’t want to take a staff interpreter away from doing a contract job (that would bring in money for the organization).

    8. Development Professional*

      Early in my career, I had a boss once who came in one Monday morning to tell me all about how he’d dealt with some issue over the weekend by screaming at a customer service rep on the phone. He was extremely proud of how he’d handled it, really laid into the person on the phone for the company’s error. One of my job duties: answering phones.

      This was the same guy who was somehow super fascinated that I practiced a particular religion that was different from his (and they’re both very common mainstream religions). He was in the midst of some conversation near my desk when he suddenly turned to me and asked, “So, what do YOU think about abortion?” I looked at him point blank and said, “I don’t talk about controversial topics at work.” It was the first time I found him speechless.

    9. 3D Queen*

      Once a co-worker told me a loooooooong story about meeting her girlfriend who she had “met” on OKCupid and hadn’t met in person….it became pretty immediately clear she was being cat-fished. When I mentioned this possibility, she just moved on to the next co-worker until she found someone who would just nod and smile.

    10. Cube Farmer*

      The office manager telling me that coworker’s baby was born with severe birth defects because God was punishing her or her husband for some unknown-to-us sin.

    11. anon for this*

      I had a female co-worker ask me about my favorite sex positions. I still can’t get the ick out of my mind. I reported it and she was warned.

      1. Mallory Janis Ian*

        I had one female coworker (who I didn’t like) try to tell me about her sex dreams with my boss.

        At another job, a male coworker kept trying to tell me the nitty-gritty details of his swinging (like, not just that he was a swinger, but who showed up at his house last night and the details of what-all they did).

        Both of my former male bosses have told me what their sexual fantasy is and what type of woman they enjoy looking at.

        I guess I have a “tell-me-anything” vibe.

    12. JBean*

      This week my friend was offered a promotion at less than the starting salary for the job. When she said she wouldn’t accept the offer as is her boss’ were shocked and tried to pressure her into the original offer. She held firm, because if they thought she was good enough to do the job then why wouldn’t they pay her at least the minimum salary for the position?! (Apparently it was due to some crazy rule about the max. raise one can get at a time – even if moving positions). Anyways, this sparked her boss to look into whether any of his other employees are being underpaid and work on fixing the culture and he thanked her for standing up for herself and compared her to Rosa Parks….. :/

      1. JBean*

        And in the middle of all this pressuring to take the underpaid salary, her other boss posted a Richard Branson quote on LinkedIn saying “Train people well enough so they can leave. Treat them well enough so they don’t wan’t to.”

        The irony is almost too much!

    13. Space City Funeral Home Admin*

      Our handyman/maintenance guy told us the other morning in all sincerity that he believes that we did not go to the moon, that the landings were faked. (If you were wondering he also does not believe in evolution). With his smart phone in his hand.

      We are less than 10 land miles from Johnson Space Center, you can’t turn around without seeing a space reference, drive down a street named after a rocket program.

      I haven’t decided whether seeing Buzz Aldrin punch him would be worth it.

    14. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I had a boss once write me up for being 5-minutes late in a salaried position when I was routinely putting in 50 – 60 hours a week. She then had me ping her on our office IM every single day for 90 days to prove I was “reliable”.

      This was less than a week after experiencing a debilitating car accident which hurt my back, and made me barely able to walk, let alone get dressed quickly. Even though she was aware of my pain, and the fact that I had a long commute, she still put me on a PIP.

      Sadly this was not the worst thing she did to me, but it is the most tone deaf thing she ever did!

    15. Anon for this*

      a friend who is a terrible driver and the least self-aware person I know once told me a story about how he had been really tailgating some guy who was driving the speed limit in the backroads where there was no one else around (and didn’t mention that he was driving the speed limit, just scoffed at the fact that “he was only going 25!”), and that the guy ahead of him had eventually pulled over (presumably to let him pass?). The guy got out of his car because he thought that maybe something was wrong with…a guy he was tailgating pulling over (again, really not self aware). The man driving the other car was like “listen, please just go ahead of me, my wife’s in the back seat in labor and I would prefer to not have you driving behind me.” This story was told to inspire sympathy toward him, as in a “can you believe what i had to deal with? Unbelievable. I’m trying to get to work and this guy was so rude to me” kind of way. Typing this out it sounds so unbelievable, as did listening to it. I am no longer friends with that guy. Sadly I’m a pushover so i was just like “wow…what a tale” at the time instead of informing him that HE was the bad guy in that story.

    16. NicoleK*

      BEC coworker enthusiastically announced that she wanted to do X ( idea X is totally random, doesn’t align with the company goals, program goals, grant activities, and probably wouldn’t pass an institutional review board). Boss said no. Weeks later, BEC coworker was telling a colleague that she still planned to go ahead and do X.

    17. Not So NewReader*

      Bosses used to rattle my subordinate, then leave. For the rest of the day my subordinate ranted and we had to listen to her rants. I told my bosses to knock it off and they said it was too much fun and they would continue doing it.

      1. Jenniy*

        I swear you must work with me.
        People from other depts. Would come just to rile up this guy, who was anti vaxxer, full on conspiracy theorist, dr. Oz was his God kinda dude.

  22. Tommy C.*

    My fiancée is an assistant to one of the managers at her office. Yesterday it was the funeral for her cousin, who got killed by a drunk driver. The manager came to funeral and interrupted it to ask my fiancée where she filed something. My fiancée is upset enough because her cousin was like her sister and was going to be the maid of honor in our wedding. Her boss stopping the funeral just made it a million times worse. Even though I don’t work there and it didn’t happen in her office can I complain to HR about this for her? She hasn’t been able to stop crying. Her family is mad too and so is everyone else that was there. She reads here all the time and I want to help her but don’t know how. Can I complain to her work about her boss about what happened?

    2. Liana*

      Her boss did WHAT? WHO THINKS THAT’S OKAY.

      Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s anything you can do. It’s not your workplace, not your boss, and I’m not sure it would reflect well on your fiancee to have you come in and essentially fight her battles. However, your fiancee should absolutely be complaining about this. That’s absurd and completely, entirely unreasonable. Seriously. She needs to go over her boss’ head, whether that means her boss’ boss or HR, whichever she thinks is more appropriate for her office. If I was her I’d be raising hell – I can’t believe someone had the audacity to interrupt a fucking funeral.

      1. neverjaunty*

        Exactly this, unfortunately. And she should be looking for a new job pronto. A manager who is this much of a clueless glass bowl is unlikely to limit their bad behavior to a single instance.

    3. legalchef*

      Wow. Is that the only reason her manager came to the funeral? That’s… awful. I don’t know what the answer is to this, but I am very sorry for her/your loss.

      1. Tommy C.*

        Yeah it was. He wasn’t there at the start of it but later on her came into the church and made the Reverend stop talking because he said there was an emergency and that’s when he asked my fiancée where she filed the thing. She was crying so hard that she couldn’t even answer and her brother and another guy kicked him out with the Reverend’s permission. A couple of people from her office heard about what happened so they called to see if she was okay and they said they wanted to complain too. My fiancée is still too upset to talk about it. Thanks for your condolences.

        1. mockingbird2081*

          What a jerk! I would be so angry I don’t think I would be able to go back to work. I don’t think you can complain to HR about this but…I just can’t get over how rude this guy was.

          1. Windchime*

            I would absolutely complain to HR about this. Someone who would do something like this has absolutely done other things that are terrible. Even if he hasn’t, this is absolutely something that should be reported. Simply terrible. I am so sorry for your fiancée’s loss.

        2. Isben Takes Tea*

          HE STOPPED THE REVEREND?! I can’t even. I am so, so sorry.

          To echo others, no, you can’t complain (I believe she could, depending on her company), but I would get a new job as soon as I was able.

        3. legalchef*

          I don’t even… I can’t… WHAT?!?! He stopped the Reverend??????????????? Honestly that is so mind-blowingly horrific that I don’t even think my brain can comprehend that.

        6. A Teacher*

          I don’t think you can, but her coworkers could collectively raise it as an issue. We’ve done something like that in a few previous jobs–it usually worked.

        8. Rebecca in Dallas*

          Wow, that is horrible! I’m so sorry for your fiancee. Agreed with what the others have said, you can’t go to HR but I’m willing to bet that her coworkers have taken care of that already.

        9. Observer*

          That’s just …. Hard to find words.

          The one good thing is that his behavior was highly public. And, because he wasn’t just incredibly rude and insensitive to your Fiance, but interrupted a service in the Church, it is also a public relations issue for the company. That’s something that it would be worth while to point out to the company when she and her co-workers complain.

        10. Ron Skurat*

          I am by nature a timid person but if I had been there he would have left in the hearse.

    4. LiteralGirl*

      It’s really crappy that the manager did this, but don’t complain to people at her company on her behalf. It’s her work life, and when she’s less emotional about the whole thing she can approach her manager or some other appropriate person herself.

      1. eee*

        seconded, especially since it sounds like other people at her work are already going to complain.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’m really sorry this happened to her. Her boss is a jackass. However, you can’t complain to HR for her. Neither can she, really. The guy is a jerk, but I wouldn’t go to HR over it. I would advise her to start looking for another gig when she’s ready. The bottom line is that you can’t complain for her– if she wants to handle it, she has to do it herself.

    6. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

      That is absolutely horrible.

      Ultimately, you would be doing her a disservice by complaining on her behalf. The best thing you can do is be there for her, and if she wants to go to HR, support her.

    7. Lee*

      Wait…the manager came in mid-way through the funeral to ask about your fiancee about a work related matter?
      Was she on leave/bereavement from work ? Was she crying with family in the middle of a funeral, when her boss waltzed in and asked about a work-related matter completely interrupting the funeral and the grieving family? This just seems….unbelievable.

      To answer your question…NO you should not contact your fiancee’s work to complain about your fiancee’s boss. Your complaint is 100% biased, and you have no standing (presumably) with her company to do this. It will reflect poorly on your fiancee. Instead, your fiancee should be 1- asking the question about what to do to a career advice board like this, not you and 2- telling HR what happened and see if the company bereavement/leave policy allows for this, and if its acceptable in this work culture or not. Once your fiancee has those answers, she can make an informed decision about whether to continue working there.

      1. Tommy C.*

        Thank you for answering my question. I only posted and asked because she is so upset right now that she can’t even talk about it and I want to help her and not push her or make her upset. Thanks for explaining how it works and that I can’t go to HR or complain for her. I don’t work in an office and there is no HR at my job so I had no idea how it worked.

        She was off on bereavement leave on the day of the funeral. Her boss did come in the middle of it and he interrupted the Reverend and made everything stop and then he asked her. She was crying so much she couldn’t even answer and the Reverend got people to kick him out. After reading your answer I won’t complain for her because I don’t want to get her in trouble or make her look bad. Thanks for explaining how it works and what I should do.

        1. The bread burglar*

          I’m sorry for her loss.

          Her boss is an idiot and an insensitive jerk. That being said you can’t go to her HR department for her. She should definitely speak to HR and let them know what happened. Any HR department worth their money would investigate it and speak with the manager. I would imagine he would likely be forced to apologise for it. But it will tell her a lot about her company based on how they handle it. Though if its her direct boss she may want to think about whether or not this is someone she really wants to work for.

          You shouldn’t have to tell someone not to interrupt a funeral and this is very poor judgment on his part, shows a lack of boundaries or empathy.

        3. Ultraviolet*

          That’s terrible and I’m so sorry.

          If your fiancee wants to keep working at that place (or anticipates that it would take a long time to find a new job and can’t leave until she does), it’s probably best to get a few of those outraged coworkers together and all complain to HR or the boss’s boss about how infuriating and intrusive and insensitive this was and how that impacts their ability to work with boss or trust the company. (I don’t have the experience to know whether HR or someone above the boss is best for this–I’m inclined to guess it’s the boss’s supervisor though.) This might result in a (private) dressing-down for boss and an apology.

          On the other hand, if she wants to leave soon and is able to do so, I’d probably just avoid talking about it until she’s free. Then depending on her feelings for the company and her energy level, she could either a) tell the boss’s boss about what happened and how that contributed to her leaving and how it looked to all the funeral attendees, or b) bring it up on social media as suggested by Creag an tuire.

          1. Creag an Tuire*

            Just to be clear, I am NOT suggesting the fiancee scorch the company on social media, tempting as that may be — I was saying that one of the other funeral-goers might do so regardless. Jerkface McDipstick halted the funeral for EVERYONE there, and if the deceased were my friend or relative, I would need every ounce of my self-control not to go nuclear.

            (In fact, if OP wants to be useful in this situation, maybe he should take charge of contacting the other mourners and making sure they don’t go off on a rampage before fiancee can recover enough to decide what she wants to happen.)

            1. Ultraviolet*

              Sorry for misrepresenting you! I’m glad you reiterated this point, because it’s a good one.

        4. anon for this*

          I wonder if you could draft a letter FOR her and have her look it over to make changes and then let her send it if she wished. You could write out a basic bare bones account of what happened and she can take it and fill in more details. So I think you can help with the first step and then just be her support afterwards. Just get the ball half formed and she can do the rolling if she wishes.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Yes, this. I did this with someone a while ago. We wrote a letter together. I encouraged them to think about exactly what they wanted to say. It took a while, but it went verrrry well. They calmed down and really thought about what they wanted out of the situation and what points they wanted to get across.

      2. NK*

        I think it makes sense that he’s asking on her behalf on a career advice board – she’s deep in grief and he’s trying to help. But, yes, unfortunately this is something she’s going to have to handle on her own from a work perspective. This is so unbelievably awful that unless the company takes swift, harsh action against the manager, I would be out of there as fast as I possibly could. Just terrible.

        1. Creag an Tuire*

          Y’know, I get that generally one cannot fight someone else’s workplace battles… but what about giving the employer a heads-up about a disastrous PR situation? I don’t know where OP’s fiancee works, but I feel like all it would take is one angry relative going to Twitter about “Some JACKASS from Dunder-Mifflin INTERRUPTED my daughter’s funeral to ask my niece about some damned file!” for shit to officially go viral.

    8. S0phieChotek*

      Nomination for bad boss of the year? Maybe not quite the worst but this is appalling. Coming in person? To interrupt the Reverend?

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        Seriously though. April 15th and we have a winner (or loser? I can never really tell)

      2. bluesboy*

        A colleague of mine once took 3 days off for her Father’s funeral. I met her for a coffee on the second day and was with her when our boss called and said “sorry about your Father dying. Now let’s talk about important things: when will you be able to finish the project?”

        These people really are out there. Tommy, it’s sweet of you to try and help your fiancé, intelligent of you to check how given your lack of experience with HR, and mature of you to accept people telling you your idea wasn’t the right one.

        Just support her in whatever she chooses to do and she’ll appreciate it. Good luck with your marriage, and condolences for your loss.

      3. Joanna*

        Yup, I think this guy is the “winner”. Utterly unbelievable. Pretty sure even most psychopaths would know that was unacceptable.

    9. SL #2*

      I took some bereavement leave a bit ago and other than the texts where I let my boss know that I would have to take a couple days off and she expressed condolences, she did not contact me whatsoever until I came back to work. And when I came back, a coworker told me that there had been a couple things that came up but my boss held firm on “we’re not going to contact an employee on bereavement leave for anything short of the office being on fire.” And that’s how it should be. I’m sorry your fiancee’s boss is a disrespectful jerk and that there are even people like that who are out there. I’m also very sorry for your loss. But I agree with the other commenters; it’s not your place to go to HR for your fiancee. Whether she wants to do that is up to her, or maybe she’ll decide that this is not a boss she wants to work for again. But it must be her decision the entire way.

    10. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      Honestly, as family members I would call HR about this. Don’t make it about your sister, make it about you. Complain that a manager from their company interrupted your family members funeral.

      I’d also leave really negative reviews about the company online, naming the company but not the specific manager.

      1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

        You are not that powerless here. I think back to the LW who got fired after a person on a train saw that they posted mean things about an obese woman next to her and called corporate to complain. This was retail, so there was an easy to reach complaint department, but I think it would be worth looking into a similar route. This woman was fired for a rude text outside of work on a train … this boss should be fired. Period.

          1. pony tailed wonder*

            I would think if anyone has any video of this incident, a local news channel would love to air it. It would be a ratings grabber for sure. Your girlfriends name doesn’t have to come up. Also, the parents of the cousin would have a VERY GOOD standing to call the company up.

      3. Aisling*

        Absolutely. The family, collectively, should complain about a company representative STOPPING THE REVEREND AT A FUNERAL with a LIE “yes, it’s an emergency.” That is so far from what should have happened and that company now has a horrible reputation with everyone who attended, and the company should know.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      Tommy, my condolences to your fiancee and you.

      Things like what the boss did seem to exasperate grief. Death tends to remind us of how powerless we are and then the boss walks in at the worst time. More loss of power/autonomy on top of losing her cousin/sis.

      Please do not think that going to HR is going to stop her from crying. It might not. Do, however, encourage her to cry. Tell her that it makes you want to cry and it would make any thinking being want to cry. Let her know that crying helps to keep the brain healthy and in turn tears can make us stronger. Yes, she will stop crying at some point, until then just keep telling her that it is okay to cry. It’s normal for us to want to run in and fix things. But fixing the boss will not fix what is actually wrong here.

      The serious/main problem here is the loss of her cousin. She can deal with the idiot boss later. I suspect it has gone right around work and the situation might be dealt with by the time she gets back. We don’t know. Or maybe she will simply decide never to return to work. It’s her call.

      I am optimistic for her making a good decision on this since it sounds like she has excellent support: she seems to have a very impressive fiance and it sounds like she is surrounded by people who love her. Don’t underestimate the power of loving friends/family.

      For your own anger/upset, you might want to type out a letter to the boss yourself. DO NOT send it, of course. But letters can help us collect our thoughts and steer our excess energy that we have in these situations. If you hammer out your own letter, it may help you to help her. (Again, do not send this letter.)

    12. V.V.*

      Perhaps the Reverend could pipe up. I believe he has standing as it was his service that was interrupted by this Loon.

      If I were Loon’s boss I would be upset if no one mentioned Loon’s abhorrent behavior.

      And HR should find out, as it is their job to protect the company. It is in their interest to know Loon E. Boss is behaving this way representing the company in public and stirring up ill will.

      As a member of the congregation I would have already phoned the company to complain because this is not OKAY.

    13. peanut butter kisses*

      I have a feeling that someone from the service will say something. Please update us if anything is said or done by others. It is too over the top to just end there. I know if I had been there I would have commented on their twitter feed or facebook page.

      1. Dot Warner*

        Yes, please keep up updated on this! I’m so sorry for your and your fiancée’s loss, and I hope that justice is done.

    14. Artemesia*

      Husbands and boyfriends (or wives and girlfriends) absolutely may not meddle in their partner’s workplace. Unless the fiancee is unconscious in the hospital, she needs to handle her own career. Yes this boss is a jerk, but that doesn’t excuse undermining the fiance’s career/job.

      1. V.V.*

        Hey Artemesia,
        I am not really seeing how speaking up in this instance is undermining, but I guess I am also not seeing this as job interference, I am seeing that a member of this company has disrespected the deceased, the bereaved, and the religious services supposedly on the behalf of said company.

        Maybe not everyone feels this way, but if I were the boss’s boss, I would be ashamed and embarassed if someone under my charge was interrupting and getting thrown out of funerals for the supposed sake of work, and I would be doubly upset if I did not get an opportunity to apologize and rectify this situation because I was not notified of this egregious gaffe.

        I understand people feel iffy because it is woman’s fianceé writing in and wanting to act (and trust me I am not trying to incite Tommy C., or anyone else to do something rash) but considering boss was thrown out on his ear, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone hasn’t already beaten him to the punch.

        This boss had no standing, and no right, and someone is going to call them on it.

    15. blackcat*

      Given the interrupting the reverend level of inappropriateness, would it be possible to ask *the reverend* to write a letter to send to the workplace?

      That might send a VERY strong message to boss’s boss.

    16. Observer*

      For starters, the boss is an idiot and a boor, to say the least.

      You are not in any position to complain and doing so would only make her look bad. However, depending on the culture of her employer, I would absolutely encourage her to either go to HR or start looking for another job. This guy is seriously boundary challenged.

    17. Fafaflunkie*

      First: my condolences for your fiancé’s loss. Unfortunately, this is something only your fiancé can complain about, even if going over her boss’s head. You. I’m afraid, don’t work for her company.

      If Alison’s reading this now: is this a…no, the top candidate for worst boss of the year for 2016?

  23. ladyguinevere*

    One of the Teapot Makers at my job recently started dating the VP of Teapot Making. They’ve disclosed to HR, and the Teapot Maker now reports to HR instead of the VP. It’s basically an open secret at this point — they show up at the same time, leave around the same time, the VP has been coming to a lot more rank-and-file events, etc. Recently, a group of Teapot Makers (who are friends outside the office) went on vacation together, including the VP and the Teapot Maker they are dating. Is it just me, or does this seem out of line for the VP to go on vacation with people who are in his department? It seems like it would open up a lot of room for claims of unfair treatment to me.

    I admittedly think that this group of Teapot Makers has a lot of inappropriate professional boundaries, so it could be that I’m just at BEC stage with them, so wanted some other opinions.

    1. Lucie*

      I think it really depends on the industry/regional/company culture. In my former workplace (lobbying in EU country) because everyone in the industry was quite young, everyone would go to happy hour, dinners, weekends etc. together including some quite senior people. Actually, I am now in another country to finish college and my former coworkers/bosses (ranking from interns to senior managers) came to visit me and the country I live in last January, it was an absolute blast :) That said, VP-level sounds a little too much and might have made some colleagues uncomfortable (and unable to speak up about it)…

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      The whole thing is messed up, including that she’s now “reporting to HR.” In what meaningful way can HR truly manage her or assess her work? That really sounds like BS, and your company is failing to manage this well.

    4. Kira*

      I’m just confused about the part where the teapot maker now reports to HR instead of the department VP. How does that work? Does HR now manage 1 person’s workload, performance reviews, work quality? I’m boggled.

      1. Artemesia*

        You are boggled because it is nonsense. It is a fig leaf and either the VP continues to manage her or she isn’t managed at all.

  24. Anon for This*

    I am planning to ask my boss if I can go part-time starting in late August. I’m optimistic she will approve it, but how far in advance should I bring it up? I was thinking June 1, but I wonder if that’s too early? If it’s not approved, I’ll resign. I have two big projects to complete by September 1 so I don’t think she will ask me leave early. Any and all suggestions welcome.

    1. The bread burglar*

      I don’t see any harm in bringing it up in June. Or even May. If you know your boss and trust her not to push you out early then there isn’t any reason to wait if you know the worst case scenario is a “no.”

      I would approach her early June, so you can get the idea on her radar. You’ll want to be sitting to discuss it in a private area of your work. But you could just say “Hey Jane, I would like to talk to you about changing my hours. I would like to go to part-time starting in late August because of xyz” You don’t have to give her any reasons but she will likely want to know, especially if you have been full time for a while. “I know thats a way off but I wanted to get your opinion on it now and find out what might need to be done, do you think this would be a possibility?” You’ll probably also want to address the two big projects and could even add in any suggetions you have for how to decrease the impact this might have on your role. That way it shows that you are asking for flexibility for whatever reason but that you are still committed to doing well as part-time and you have given serious thought to how this will affect things.

      Not to mention while it feels too early. I don’t know your company but many larger organisations would require approval from above the manager, looping HR in on the change, deciding if they need a second part-timer to share your role (and if so time to find and train them), etc. So it could be a likely process and time would help improve the chances of a yes. Plus if she does come back to say she understand the importance of your request but that it isn’t feasible due to business reasons, you have more time to better plan your exit/get something new lined up.

  25. Collie*

    A previous supervisor and current reference of mine is leaving his job at the end of July. This is information I’m not supposed to have (I heard it through the grapevine) but it looks like his job has been posted. All the official contact info I have for him is his work contact. Should I assume he’ll let me know when he leaves so I can update my reference contact info for him or should I reach out?

    1. ThursdaysGeek*

      You’ve got until the end of July. Give it some more time for it to be more officially known, and if you haven’t heard anything by mid-July, give him a call to get updated contact information.

      Another option would be to reach out earlier to get LinkedIn and personal contact information, just because. The potential job change wouldn’t come into the conversation at all.

  26. Just Curious (Anon for This)*

    I’m curious about what processes your organizations use (or what you think organizations should use) when managing a hiring process with several internal candidates.

    An organization I used to work for is replacing a key vice president. I’ve heard through the grapevine that three of his direct reports (all of whom have the same job, just managing different regions of the country) and one former direct report who moved to a different team a couple of years ago have applied to replace him. The role has also been posted externally, and as it is a high profile gig that pays very well for the industry I imagine they will get a good pool of additional candidates.

    A friend who still works there told me that she helped edit one of the internal candidate’s cover letter and resume. That made me think about what an ideal process would look like for a role that attracts internal candidates. It seems strange to ask for cover letters and resumes when the hiring manager (and other relevant decision-makers: the outgoing vice president, the ED’s chief of staff, etc.) all know the work of the internal candidates very well. What will a cover letter tell them that the past six years of working together didn’t?

    (As an aside, I know the work of all these folks very well also, and at least one of them would be a very strong candidate. I’d be interested in hearing from the others about their vision for the role and what they would bring to it. But I’d want to do that in a conversation; a cover letter wouldn’t cut it. I’d also want to look externally.)

    What do you think? How would you handle this?

    1. VintageCampus*

      No specific on your end, but one thing I would be very careful of is being sure to tell the internal candidate your time frame for letting the other internal candidates know they did not get the job once they accept the offer.

      I was in the really unfortunate situation of being offered an internal promotion, having no clue that there were other internal candidates, and then when sharing my news with friendly colleagues finding out that internal candidates had heard through the grapevine about my promotion a.k.a. not getting the job. It did not make it easy for me to establish rapport with those individuals when I started – so be sure to handle the whole process respectfully for the internal hires!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I would debate the fact that they know the candidates very well. I had one employer that was looking for someone who did X. I knew my coworker did X. Well, the boss never asked and my stubborn coworker never volunteered. It was on his resume that he gave them eight years ago, so they should read his resume and then they would know. (yeah. okay.)
      So our employer hired someone trained to do X. My coworker laughed, sneered and mocked our employer for not knowing that he did X. (Some of my work days were unnecessarily long.)

      I have seen this happen so many times. People work together for years and still do not know many thing about each other. I feel it’s up to the applicant to deduce what might be new info and relevant for the open position.

  27. TLV*

    I got fired a couple of weeks ago and I’m having trouble coming up with the best way to describe it in interviews. Other people in the office were told my position was eliminated which is the story I’ve been sticking to, but I just found out that I am being replaced in a couple of months. I’m trying to keep it where interviewers won’t push too much to find out more information, but I wonder if that means I should get out ahead of it.

    This isn’t a case where I can say I was fired and then learned something from the experience other than “I will never work for someone with a substance abuse problem who stays up for two days straight going through my email looking for the slightest offense to build a case and coming up with a weak one at best.” Technically I was let go on insubordination, but this was due to bizarro accusations like I should take the time to bother the owner of the company with a minor French translation than asking someone who has slightly less experience with translations. Or I shouldn’t point a marketing person to a marketing document she couldn’t find without running it by her first.

    In addition to that, I do not have my ex-boss as a reference which I think will also raise questions since I was there for almost 6 years. I do have other high ranking people in the company though so is that likely sufficient?

    (Aside – thanks to Alison’s book, I have had a greater than 50% hit rate for interviews to applications. The system works!)

    1. ThatGirl*

      I am not a lawyer, but I have a friend who is an employment lawyer. I was fired about 9 years ago, thrown under the proverbial bus, it’s a long story. I was trying to work out how to present it in interviews, and my friend basically told me I could say anything I wanted to, as long as it wasn’t a lie.

      In short, it’s up to you how to paint it, but don’t lie.

      1. Sadsack*

        Yeah, don’t say the position was eliminated if you were fired because they will find out with one reference check call.

        1. TLV*

          It was initially eliminated though. It was fairly common to have people “restructured” out of jobs there. I will try to deal with it head-on though I feel when I tell the story it makes me look like someone who is incapable of the introspection needed to be self-critical (which… maybe that’s true).

    2. ThursdaysGeek*

      You were there for almost 6 years — did this boss suddenly change, or has she always been like that? Was she your boss the entire time?

      I’d use the other people in the company, especially if you had good standing in general. And don’t lie.

      1. TLV*

        No, she’s always been a handful and she’s the owner of the company. Generally how it worked was as long as you weren’t the target, your job was fine. But I’ve seen lots of other people become the focus of her wrath and get the boot after a similar inbox ransacking looking for the least offense. I actually rage quit around this time and ended up being lured back when I couldn’t find a job (which… was a mistake).

    3. VintageCampus*

      I would have a friend call this boss pretending to be a hiring manager and see what the boss’ reference is like. If she confirms it was a layoff, and doesn’t say anything bad, you may not have any problems to deal with here.

    4. Lindsay J*

      No advice, but sympathy. I got fired 3 years ago and I’m still at a loss as to how to explain it clearly.

      I had all good reviews, never had a write up or anything. Then one night they called me up and threw the book at me basically; they checked off a ton of things on the termination form, and while they were not exactly false they were a stretch at best. Insubordination because “told not to fuck up and did it anyway.” (Fucking up in this case being printing a report for the wrong date (it was after midnight and I had worked 17 hours that day and I got confused whether today referred to the calendar day or the operating day). Failure to report an incident for not telling my boss I had printed the wrong report (when I didn’t know I printed the wrong thing until they told me that afternoon). It was all completely ridiculous.

      I am pretty sure the “real” reason I was fired was because they needed a scapegoat. I’m pretty sure my bosses boss told my boss that he either had to do something to fix the department, or he would be fired. Firing me was a visible thing he could do to make it seem like he was doing *something*. I wasn’t the cause of any of the issues in the department, but I was the highest paid. But I can’t exactly say that to interviewers.

      So I just generally go with vague things like, “It just wasn’t a good fit” and hope that they don’t pry further.

  28. The bread burglar*

    I have job interview on monday. I’m almost 30 and have 10+ years of professional work under my belt so you would think I would be calmer than I am. I don’t usually get this nervous!

    I just know they are going to ask that question I hate being asked the most “So tell me about yourself” type question. Any tips for how to answer this? I hate the idea of going into stuff like “well i’m very detail oriented etc.” Because I feel like that send the message that I’m not all business and not very personable. I know you shouldn’t tell them everything or things not particularly related to the role.

    I usually answer with things like “Well I’m from Canada” because I live in the UK now, “I’ve been here for 6 years and really love it. ” Then I don’t know. It usually ends up being I studied X at Uni, I have Y hobbies. But it just never feels like the right thing.

    What types of things do you talk about?

    1. Sunflower*

      You definitely want to keep it work focused and around 30ish seconds. I like to tell my story in basically ‘I graduated from college in X year’ and then give a sentence or two about the 2 jobs I’ve had since then. Sometimes my last sentence will explain why I’m interviewing like ‘I’ve been at Teapots Inc for 4 years and am looking for a new challenge’ You could probably do the same and throw in there at some point how you got from Canada to the UK.

      I wouldn’t mention hobbies unless they specifically ask you what you like to do in your free time/outside of work.

      1. taylor swift*

        the best way I’ve heard to answer this question is present, past, future
        So I’m currently at x place doing x things; before that I was at y place doing y things; and I’m looking for an opportunity to do z things, which is why I was so excited to have the opportunity to apply for this job.

    2. Wendy Darling*

      My professional overview is weird because my degree is not directly related to my field and I got into my area sort of sideways, so I usually cover that progression and my motivations for moving increasingly away from my field of study. As a bonus it heads off some (but not all) of the “But you have a degree in Flatware Studies, why on earth do you want to work in Teapot Analysis?” questions.

      1. The bread burglar*

        ooh thats helpful to.

        My degree is in communication so while I should really be working in a very different area to my role, its pretty easy to make it sounds useful to most employers.

        Thanks for the input. So it doesn’t feel weird for you all to just start into talking about work stuff. This is usually the first question I get asked in an interview as an ice breaker, and I’m always scared that taking just about my work stuff will send a message of being unfriendly.

          1. The bread burglar*

            True but I guess I just assumed (wrongly and I know what that makes me) that they will be asking questions about my qualifications, and that this is more a tell me a bit about yourself partly to see what I answer with, but also to see more personality wise.

            Thanks for the advice. I’ll be more confident with discussing my professional qualifications in answer to this from now on.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Yep. It’s a job interview. Maybe your discomfort is not relating your background itself but rather the way you deliver the story. How’s your delivery? Do you describe your progression in a way that is comfortable to YOU? Does it sound like you talking?

            If you were to tell the story to a long lost childhood friend or to the new wife of your favorite uncle Bob how would it differ from what you are saying to the interviewer? While in these instances you might be too casual for a formal interview, you can still move your formal interview statement more toward a comfortable conversation as opposed to a dry recitation of your life history.

        2. CheeryO*

          Not at all. If they want to get to know you a little better, they’ll ask about your hobbies later, but that’s typically more of an end-of-the-interview thing.

      2. Snazzy Hat*

        Yep, yesterday I had to explain to a recruiter that my degree is for future teachers and professors but I’m fine with teaching in an assisting and informing way, I don’t plan to go back to school, and I really really love data entry and helping coworkers. I also recently sent out a CL that basically said “don’t let my degree in X fool you; I love Z and would have no trouble learning duties which involve a lot of Z.”

    3. Lucie*

      Ok, I’ve been interviewing hardcore lately (about to graduate and no job lined up, gulp) and I have a short ‘elevator pitch’ about myself ready to deliver when I get asked this question. I tweak it depending on the industry I’m interviewing in.
      Usually I say something like:
      – Current occupation (for me, student) and that it sparked my interest in the Teapot industry, and international background (speak X languages, am from X country) in 1 sentence
      – Most relevant things I did before (internships, previous work directly tied to application) in 2 sentences
      – Add something less serious but that still looks good to make you seem more ‘human’ and likeable at the end e.g. and in my free time I volunteer at X charity why I very much enjoy (1 sentence)
      All in all it should probably last about 30 seconds I think.
      You can do it, good luck!!

    4. Rachel*

      The best interview advice I’ve ever gotten was to keep most of the answer to this question work-focused, but end with some sort of unique accomplishment or fact about yourself – something to make you memorable. The one I used was “I’m the 2008 Illinois Jaycee Jeopardy champion and I came in second in the national competition.” (Jaycee Jeopardy is a competition run by the US Jaycees, kind of like the show except all the questions are about the history of the organization.)

    5. Jen RO*

      I usually take this to be a question about my professional background rather than hobbies etc. My usual spiel is that I’ve always loved editing, to the point of asking people to let me edit their websites for free, and an editor friend of mine got me my first job in a publishing house. Due to the lack of job security in copy editing, I decided to apply for a technical writing job (at the recommendation of a friend, as at that time technical writing was virtually non-existent here). After a few months… I realized that it is something I love and that I am good at, so I want to keep doing for the rest of my career!

      Then I usually add a few words about why I am interested in their particular company… and that’s about it.

  29. Amy M in HR*

    I went through the AAM archives last weekend and, using Alison’s advice, updated my resume (goodbye objectives and generic one word characteristics!) and wrote an amazing cover letter for a position at a company I would love to work for. I feel so good about the updates, and was complimented on my cover letter by a contact I have with the company (who has many years of HR experience) who said he thought it was awesome and even better than his own!
    I was told by my contact that the HR Manager contacted him and let him know I would definitely be considered for an interview, but I’m not going to worry too much about being asked for an interview or even being offered the position (it would mean relocating to the other side of the country without my husband until he retires from the military next year) but I feel good just applying. Without AAM’s advice I would not have revamped my resume, nor written a cover letter nearly as good, so thank you for that!
    I will keep you all updated….

    1. Van Wilder*

      Congrats! Good for you. I still struggle with cover letters, even after a couple years of reading AAM’s wise words.

  30. Mythea*

    I am coming up on 4 years with my current job and was told a few months ago that they were giving me a new project, moving me away from my boss to a new one, to “prove myself”. Since then, every time I ask for input on the project or for direction – I am reminded that “this is a test” and I need to “show what I can do”. Am I bizarre for being offended and ticked off?

    1. Laura*

      That’s… a little weird. On one hand, it could be totally innocuous, but on the other, they might be trying to push you out. Are any people leaving your company? Do you have any reason to believe that your job might be in jeopardy?

    2. Biff*

      No… that’s kinda weird. You might see if you can talk to new boss and ask what sorts of things he feels will make the ‘test’ a success’ and what sort of things he’d like you to demonstrate. If he can’t give you a straight answer, then that’s telling, IMO. You can’t achieve success if there are no standards for it. Career objectives aren’t wedding dresses or puppies — you won’t ‘know it when you see it.’

    3. Persephone Mulberry*

      That’s very weird. I can see them asking you to take the lead/work very independently on a project under your regular boss, whose expectations you probably already know. But saying, “here you go, wow us!” when you have no idea what New Boss’s idea of “wow” is…? Yuck.

    4. LizB*

      That’s pretty weird. The only thing I can think of that might be making them do this is if you’re asking for input or direction about every single little decision, including ones you should be making on your own, and they’re trying to get you to use your judgment and make those calls by yourself. If that were the case, though, it would be so much easier for them to say, “You don’t need to ask for direction about calls like X and Y — please make those decisions yourself. Only come to me when a decision involves Z or A,” instead of making it a weird vague test.

      If that’s not the case, and you’re only asking for input on decisions where you really do need your boss’s approval, then they’re just being really weird. Could you sit down with your boss and point out that if you were doing this work “for real” instead of “as a test,” you’d still need her approval on decisions about Z and A, so that’s why you’re asking for input in those instances?

    5. Rusty Shackelford*

      Is it the kind of project that would normally require you to make a lot of decisions, and you’re asking the boss to make them for you? If so, stop that. ;-) If not, then you’re right, it’s weird, and it’s almost like they’re setting you up to fail.

    6. Student*

      This might be an extremely counter-productive way of telling you that you need to be more independent.

      I strongly suggest calling a meeting and just asking about it very directly.

      “Is this your way of telling me to be more independent and make my own calls? If that’s the case, are you going to back me up when I make my own calls? Will you still back me up when I eventually make a mistake or do something very different than you would? Finally, why didn’t you just come to me and say that rather than couch this in terms of a “test”? I’m an adult, thanks, and I can take some direct feedback more easily than I can play guessing games with you. I’ve been confused about what’s going on for X months and it would’ve been easier for everyone to just get on the same page much earlier.”

    7. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds to me like there are things going on that you are not privy to and it could be good things. But they are doing it in the most awkward way they could think of.

      I am having difficulty collecting thoughts here because I don’t understand who is telling you this is a test. Your old boss or your new boss? Your cohorts?
      Have you expressed interest in a new position or new tasks recently or did this come out of the blue?
      Have they informed you of your range of new authority?

      Do you want the new boss/new work? Do you even know who the new boss will be and what the new work is?

  31. Megs*

    I had my first interview in ages yesterday and my first using Alison’s interview guide. I won’t know how it went for a couple of weeks, but I will say that I asked two of the questions from the guide and both got fantastic answers. I want to particularly push the “Do you have any reservations about my fit for the job” question. I was really nervous about asking it, but in hindsight, it was one of the best questions I’ve ever asked in an interview in terms of setting my mind at ease. As soon as they started talking, I started nodding – I knew exactly where my weak spot was – and being able to give an answer as to how I’d address it felt like a great opportunity. I tend to be very hard on myself when I don’t get a job I’ve interviewed for, but I feel an unusual sense of peace about this one. I know I’m a good candidate, I know I’ve got an area where they’d like more experience, and if I don’t get it, I feel like I can understand that rather than blaming some amorphous internal failing of mine.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      This is my favorite question, too! It either gives me a chance to acknowledge and address the weakness, or the chance to reassess and reframe my candidacy for the next opportunity. It’s great in-the-moment feedback, and I’ve always gotten wonderful responses when I’ve asked it.

      1. Megs*

        I was worried about asking it because I was afraid to draw attention to my shortcomings, but that really doesn’t make sense when I think about it. They already are thinking about my shortcomings, and all the question does is (1) let me know what they’re thinking, and (2) respond to it, both of which are really helpful.

    2. Rena*

      I’m in exactly the same position! I interviewed for an internship yesterday, and I haven’t interviewed in 4 years. I devoured the ebook and a ton of AAM interview posts ahead of time and it helped me feel really prepared, especially with good questions to ask.

      I had nerves, but they went away as soon as we started talking. The interview was with 6 people at the same time, but we ended up bantering like friends by the end. If I don’t get the position it will be because someone else was a better fit and not because I screwed anything up, which feels really great. I’m a little blown away by how delightful the interview experience was.

      1. Megs*

        Ug, group interviews.* I’m in an industry (law) where it’s very common to be interviewed by multiple people at once, and it’s so hard to get to that easy rapport level when you’re dealing with a bunch of people at once. Good for you managing it with six!

        *Multiple interviewers, not multiple interviewees. Ug to both, but super WTF ug to the latter.

        1. Rena*

          Oh, I can definitely see how that would be unclear. It was a panel interview, I was the only interviewee. I actually found it a little bit easier than a one-on-one interview because the interviewers had good rapport with each other and I was just able to slip in and feel like a natural part of the team. Hopefully that works to my advantage!

          I’ve done group interviews before where multiple people being interviewed and those are super the worst. They’ve only been for slightly sketchy jobs though (100% commission insurance sales, temp firm), I’d be curious to know if they’re a legitimate strategy that some industries use.

          1. Lucie*

            I’ve been in a ton of group interviews recently actually, I think they’re quite common in my country (Ireland) for in-demand internships and graduate positions. This was law, banking, etc. Usually the group interview would be structured like a discussion, or an exercise (e.g. we have to negotiate together and then do a short presentation). I find it useless as people are much more type A than they’d be in an actual group work. Also, at my banking interview yesterday, I was the only female candidate with 10 bulky dudes and it was really hard to assert myself in the group discussion without looking like a bitch…I think it was very clear on my face that I was pissed at being passed over/ interrupted because I have no poker face, haha. Urgh, gender dynamics :/

            1. Megs*

              Wow, I’m getting incredibly frustrated on your behalf just thinking about it! Thankfully, group interviews are really uncommon in the US outside of the “slightly sketchy” jobs as Rena put it (at least in my experience). I suspect I’d have a similar experience to you – I’ve got a terrible poker face.

      2. SJ*

        Just wanted to add: same! I had a day of interviews last week — I met 15 people over the course of 9 interviews, so some were with just one person and some were group interviews. Thanks to AAM’s interview posts and the ebook, I think I did really well (other than one interview where the 3 men clearly hadn’t read my resume or prepared questions and just sat there in awkward silence while I prompted them with questions of my own about the position). if I don’t get the job it’ll be because someone else is a better fit and has more experience, not because I did poorly. It really is a good feeling, even though I really want the job. :)

  32. Anonymous Educator*

    Anyone else have fake dread of work?

    I have a job that’s great. But when I get home, I hang out with the spouse and cats, and it’s fun and all… until around 10pm or 11pm. Then I start thinking to myself, “Oh, shoot. I have to go to work tomorrow.” Then I wake up early in the morning, lie in bed, and think to myself, “I really don’t want to go to work. I wish I could just stay in bed.” But I get up and go to work. Here’s the strange part—once I get to work… it’s fine. I love it. And, before I know it, the day is over, and I’m thinking, “Oh, the day is over already?”

    Is that weird?

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      I have this, too! I think I start dreading all of the global bureaucratic eduction stuff, but once I get to school and am with my kids and colleagues, it’s fine.

      1. Rob Lowe can't read*

        Yup. Bureaucracy and a 7 AM start time make me consistently grumbly in the mornings. Many of the children put me in a better mood. (Some…don’t.)

    2. StudentPilot*

      Oooooh, now I don’t feel so much like a weirdo, because I’m the same way! I actually do like my job, but yeah….mornings are torture, I just think “Man, I do not want to get up and go to work.”

    4. The bread burglar*

      I have this for the gym. :)

      It sounds like its not actually about going into work but it could actually just be a desire to stay home. Especially if you are having a nice evening with your spouse and cats, the desire to spend more time with them might be making you want to not go to work… Do you think that might be it or am I way off?

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, you’re probably totally right! I definitely enjoy the time with spouse and cats and wish I had more of it.

    5. Laura*

      Totally normal! My coworkers and I have been feeling that way this week. It’s a stressful time of year for our jobs, and we’re all just ready for a vacation– or a slow-down!

    6. Persephone Mulberry*

      When’s the last time you took a vacation – or preferably a staycation? Just to have an extended period – like a week, not just a long weekend – away from the office, with no out of the ordinary obligations, can be hugely refreshing.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I had a vacation just a couple of weeks ago, so it’s not that. But, yes, it was hugely refreshing!

    7. SL #2*

      I have that same feeling sometimes too. Around 11 pm, I’m like shoot, gotta go to bed… ugh, I don’t wanna. And then in the morning, I’m all UGH, TRAFFIC, I HATE MORNINGS BLAH BLAH BLAH and then I come and everything’s fine.

      Mostly, though, I work at a company where our slow periods are sloooooow and then our crazy months are absolutely crazy and I’m traveling every single week in a month, so I can trace my “fake dread of work” to the slow periods where I do things like hang out in the AAM comment sections.

    8. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Oh, I totally get this! I like my job, but it’s the whole “put on real clothes and makeup and face the world” thing that I hate, lol. I would be this way at any job I had, I think.

      I want to stay up all night watching reruns of America’s Next Top Model, then lounge in my jammies drinking coffee in the morning and hang out with my spouse and our menagerie of animals! Why can I not get paid for that?

    9. the cake is a pie*

      Here too! I hate how it takes over Sunday nights when I should be relaxing and enjoying the end of the weekend. I think it might have to do with how sometimes we fixate on the negative. Like if you get fifty compliments and one complaint, you’re going to only remember the complaint. So when we’re not actively at work, all the bad stuff floats to the top.

      It helps me to just be aware of this thinking and try to stop myself when it comes up. I think to myself, “I’m here, right now.” Doesn’t always work, but that’s ok.

    10. TheLazyB*

      Is it a dislike of the transition from one to the other??
      I find it really hard to leave work because I always want to get a bit more done… even if this makes me late to pick up my Small Child from school. But I always find it hard to go to work too, even though I mostly love it. It’s the transition that I struggle with really and it manifests itself as dread of work and dread of the journey home.

    11. hermit crab*

      You’re SO not the only one! I had such bad Sunday-night-job-dread that I actually went out and found a volunteer job with a shift on Sunday evenings so I wouldn’t spend the whole night at home feeling depressed.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      I don’t think it’s weird. When I get it, it’s usually when I feel less rested. For example, I know that I have to be in bed by 10 on a work night or the next day will be looong. I can kind of cheat on Monday and Tuesday. But not so much by mid-week.

    13. paramilitarykeet*

      Yes, I have it too. I do realize that it is toxic job PTSD—like my body is used to having work-dread start on Saturday night even though I am no longer in toxic job–and I feel some liberation in just going in anyway and finding that things aren’t so bad, despite the dread. Sometimes 90% of life…success?….is just showing up.

    14. friendlyinitials*

      I have this feeling too! Though mine is more due to dreading the 1 hour commute each way. I use public transportation in a really big city (15M+) and by the end of the week I feel like my fellow commuters are a horde that’s going to trample me under their feet. But when I arrive at the office and make myself a cup of tea I feel better and ready to tackle my projects.

  33. shep*

    I work in state government, but also have a decent following on YouTube (several thousand people), which is a hobby. I’m known via an alias on my channel, so no one knows my real name. This channel is an ASMR/relaxation channel. I know lots of people love ASMR, but I know people who are unfamiliar with it think it’s weird AF, and/or something sexual.

    I also have a novel coming out at the end of the year, and it seems a shame to waste the reader potential my YouTube followers could offer if I don’t promote there.

    But my main concern (aside from stalkers if I were to reveal my actual name) is that somehow revealing this might jeopardize my public sector position. I’m in no way doing anything inappropriate on my channel, but it *is* a weird/niche community (albeit very nice and supportive!), but I could see it being construed as a conflict of interest with my job.

    I would pre-empt this situation by going to my supervisor about it, just to make sure it would be okay, but in that same vein, I’m worried that *she* would think it was super-weird, and despite the fact that she’s a great supervisor, I worry that it might color her perspective of me, even subconsciously.

    So…I don’t know. Like I said, it seems a waste not to announce my book release to an active follower audience of several thousand people, but at the end of the day, I’m not sure it would be worth it.

    Thoughts??

    1. shep*

      *color her PERCEPTION of me

      I have not had enough coffee this morning, clearly.

      And to that same end, if she says she DOESN’T think it would be a good idea, not only would I not be able to use my YouTube resources to promote my novel, but I’d feel like I’d dinged my work reputation to no avail.

      1. Scotty_Smalls*

        Have you thought of using a pen name? That way you can introduce the book on your YouTube channel.

    2. Snow*

      Couldn’t you publish with a pen name that would allow you do promote it on youtube without it being linked to your real job. (I say this as someone who would probably use a pen name regardless if I ever published anything just because I’d get to pick it :)

      1. shep*

        The book is well into production now, and I’ve spent several years establishing myself online and through my alumni network under my real name, so unfortunately that’s not an option. :/

        1. Sualah*

          Is there any way you can use a pen name for the book but make it obvious in your real life stuff that it’s you? Sort of like how everyone knows Robert Galbraith is JK Rowling and JD Robb is Nora Roberts, but it’s not a direct link. Then both your real life and AMSR people search for the pen name. There’d still be risk of crossover, but it’s not as easy.

          1. shep*

            This is a great idea. I wish I could, but the book and the listing is too far into production/marketing to change.

    3. S0phieChotek*

      Could you not mention it on your YouTube persona the way online influencers mention things they like? People pay online influencers to do this sort of thing.

      Of course, if you never mention products/books/clothes/movies you liked on your YouTube channel then that might be odd….

      But if you did, you might need to carefully craft it to ensure it “seemed” like your YouTube persona had read book, loved it, and wanted to tell others (and not reveal that you are also the author).

      1. shep*

        This would be a great idea if I had no author photo! I guess I *could* get away with not having one, but my publisher strongly encourages an author photo.

      2. I'm a Little Teapot*

        I… wouldn’t advise this. I heard of a case where a well-known blogger promoted books she had written under a pseudonym without revealing that she was the author, and a lot of people were furious at her. It seriously damaged her reputation as a blogger and erupted into a huge drama shitstorm. Some people even got angry at other bloggers who were friends of hers (which is dumb, but these things often get out of control and harm third parties).

        I’m an author, under a pseudonym, and my authorial pseud isn’t linked to any of my other online activity or to my day jobs or real name – and I don’t recommend my writing anywhere I’m not writing under my fiction pen name. Maybe it loses me sales, but it saves me a lot of potential public humiliation and other trouble.

        1. Ellen Ripley*

          Yeah, don’t do this. Acting like you’re two different people and one of them just happens to recommend the other one’s work is sketchy as heck, and if people find out they will be really upset and feel that you took advantage of your relationship with your fans.

          I think the best solution is to use a pseudonym, either the same one that you use for the videos or a different one that is also not your real name. If you can’t do that, and the book is under your real name which you want to keep separate from your video-identity for career reasons, you’re kind of stuck.

    4. Kerry (Like the County in Ireland)*

      Well, I just had to look up ASMR to figure out what this is and I honestly don’t see what the issue is. Run it past whoever is in charge of making sure you are in compliance or not having unlawful side work, don’t call it a “brain orgasm” and you’re good. I think it makes you interesting and a little quirky, but speaking as someone who has a young family member really reliant on that sort of relaxation/meditation techniques I’d find this a pretty cool gift.

      1. shep*

        I hope that’s how my supervisor would see it!

        I tend to base my decisions [rightly or wrongly] off of the worst-case scenario, though. :(

      2. the cake is a pie*

        Agreed. It seems more like meditation than anything else. If it helps, I’m seeing increasing coverage of ASMR and so I think those who are aware of it at all are likely to know it’s just part of the meditation/relaxation/mindfulness world.

        Having worked in publishing, I’m leaning toward grabbing any chance you can to trumpet your book. It’s hard to get a toehold anywhere so if you have an already established following, a small note in your YouTube description could really go far.

    5. LisaLee*

      I would think this would probably be okay. It’s pretty normal for people to have YouTube channels as hobbies and if you sold it right (“I make relaxation videos!” vs. “I make ASMR videos which means blah blah blah”).

      On the other hand, I don’t think it will make much difference to your sale numbers if you don’t announce it on your Youtube channel. Realistically speaking, only a fraction of the people from your channel will buy your book. So a nice bump, but not one you couldn’t live without if you decide its too much risk.

      1. shep*

        I think you’re right on both counts. I’d definitely pitch it as “relaxation videos,” and I’m sure my sales numbers wouldn’t boom from YouTube followers buying, so it wouldn’t be a huge loss if I ended up not pitching it to my employer at all.

        1. AnonAcademic*

          I was going to say, just call them relaxation videos and think of it/present it like a form of meditation or something. I really don’t think it’s that weird or controversial.

  34. Doriana Gray*

    Let me start off by saying I like my new job – a lot. It’s not nearly as frustrating for me as my previous position, and now that I have my own desk, I feel like I’m settling into the role a bit and am earning the raise I was given.

    We hired six new people from one of our competitors recently and they all started last week. Since then, it’s been an Us v. Them situation in this office, which is really starting to make me uncomfortable. Our division was small (we’re one of the few divisions in the company whose org chart was only two pages) and everyone knew each other for years (including me – I worked in another division, but I did two training rotations through this division two years ago, so I already had friends here before I came). Now the new people are here, and our division’s Sr. VP is kind of going a little overboard with the welcome according to some folks in the old guard. For example, VP took the new people up to the special floor in our building that no one but our parent company’s CEO and CFO usually have access to and had lunch with them there complete with fancy chef. Well, some of the older employees were griping about this because they’ve never been. Sr. VP was taking them to dinners and taking them to lunches, and apparently this was rubbing people the wrong way (even though I’ve seen him take other people to lunches before so I’m not sure what their issue is).

    Anyway, no one’s treating the new people poorly, but there’s a lot of gossip and unfortunately, one of my friends has gotten involved in this. She’s concerned that with the arrival of the new people, her advancement opportunities will be limited. Part of her concern (though she won’t say it, but I’ve known her long enough to know what the deal is) is that for nearly three years, she’s been the golden child up here. They’ve bent over backwards to give her every opportunity imaginable, she wants to move into management soon, and the reality is, that might not happen with the new people in the mix. Most of them have way more experience than we do in the industry we work in, and upper management’s going to have to recognize that.

    Now, I don’t care one way or the other as long as I continue to get interesting work, training opportunities, and decent raises every year. I’d like to take up training as a part of my permanent role (I really enjoy showing people how to do stuff and it’s pretty cool that they’ve had me on the training team since about three weeks into my tenure with them), but my concern is this – I’m new. We just reorged a couple of weeks ago to make room for the new people, so I’m now reporting to a new supervisor. I talked to my previous manager about this, and he seemed very interested in helping to get me those opportunities. But I don’t know my supervisor that well. She’s nice and all, but I don’t know how to have this conversation with her. I think bringing it up now with all of the changes happening might be too soon and maybe a little tone deaf? She has five direct reports now when she previously only had three, so she’s a little overwhelmed right now. But then if I wait too long to say anything, my concern is that my supervisor will begin to overlook me for these opportunities.

    So I guess I need a good script for what to say and how to say it (and advice on when to say it). I’d ask my former mentor from my training program, but she’s out of the office and super busy, and I hate bothering her with this stuff because she’s no longer my manager so my career is no longer really her concern.

    1. Doriana Gray*

      And I guess I was going somewhere with the stuff about the division in my division, and lost track of my thoughts (it’s been a rambly day). Maybe subconsciously I’m concerned about it too because everything was so nice prior to this expansion – I really don’t want this environment to turn gossipy and backstabby. This is supposed to be my Zen place!

    2. Van Wilder*

      I hear you. I came into my current department from the outside but it’s a relatively new group and you can sort of tell who used to work for which competitor based on the culture clashes. It’s not too bad generally but it flares up now and then. It’s hard for both sides but it sounds like the new employees are getting the good side of the deal. That said, soon enough their novelty will wear off and they’ll be judged on their recent accomplishments like everyone else (hopefully).
      As to your question, I think it’s not a bad idea to let the dust settle before talking career goals with your manager. But not too long – maybe a week or two? It’s a good idea to let her know your ambitions so she keeps you in mind for opportunities as they come up.

      1. Doriana Gray*

        Yeah, two weeks seems more appropriate. And next week, I’m back in the training position (we have a new guy coming in to be an assistant, so I’m showing him how to do the initial setup of our files), so maybe even expressing my enjoyment for that kind of thing then wouldn’t be too bad.

        As to your second sentence, it’s probably less weird when a group is just getting off the ground to have new hires coming in. I’m glad to hear you guys don’t have too many problems though. That’s awkward for everybody.

    3. The bread burglar*

      I’m sorry but I’ve gotten a bit lost of timelines here.

      How long have you been in the new job? It sounds like this is a new position within a company you were already working for? And how long has the manager been in this role? I think the time you have both been there will play a major factor in when to bring it up.

      But I would recommend asking ahead of time to schedule some time, you could say something like “Hey Jane, I know you are really busy with a new team and all but I wanted to know if you could set aside some time to meet with me? I just wanted to have a quick 1-to-1 to discuss how things are going forward with you as the new manager, make sure I have the right priorities, etc. to be sure we are on the same page.” Or something like that. She’ll probably need to schedule it in advance especially if she is super busy.

      In the meeting just tell her that you spoke with Sarah in the past about priorities for this role as well as that you really enjoy training and that you if there are any opportunities that come up where you culd get involved moe in it you would appreciate her keeping you in mind. You might mention that you aren’t sure if she knows but you have been a member of the training team since x time. And potentially if you are comfortable even offer to help with the new employees if there are internal systems that are different for them.

      If you only approach her about the roles you are interested in going forward that might seem a bit tone deaf but if you approach it as an overall shes a new manager you just want to have a one to one to make sure you are both on the same page for your role, what she wants you to prioritise, etc. that should be fine. Supervisors change so its understandable for an employee to want to check in with their new boss to make sure things shouldn’t be done a new way. For her it might also help to know that you are good and she doesn’t need to worry about you (not that she is necessarily) but she can concentrate more effort on the other team members, etc.

      As for the Us vs them. I would steer clear of it as much as possible. It will hopefully even out in time but if it does affect morale you don’t want to be seen as being part of it. And its helpful in these situations to remember the new employees aren’t likely to be asking to be shmoozed so much by management. They want to have a nice cooperative working environment as much as you do, so try not to hold any of it against them personally.

      1. Doriana Gray*

        As for the Us vs them. I would steer clear of it as much as possible. It will hopefully even out in time but if it does affect morale you don’t want to be seen as being part of it. And its helpful in these situations to remember the new employees aren’t likely to be asking to be shmoozed so much by management. They want to have a nice cooperative working environment as much as you do, so try not to hold any of it against them personally.

        Oh, I’m keeping my head down. As one of the newer people in this division, I can’t afford to get caught up in anything. Plus, I’m so busy I barely have time to talk to anyone about anything other than my job (which is concerning me in another way – I fear I may be coming off aloof as opposed to just absorbed in my work, but that’s for another discussion). I just politely changed the conversation to something else when my friend brought it up. I had the unpleasant experience in 2014 of landing in my previous division as the new kid from the corporate training program, and my teammates resented the hell out of me. It took a couple of months for them to get over what they saw as preferential treatment/favoritism to warm up to me. I feel for the new people in this division, but I don’t really know how to make them feel welcome when I still feel kind of like the new kid.

        As for the timeline, yes, this division is within a company I’ve been working for since the end of 2013. My new supervisor was hired into this division in 2014 and was promoted to supervisor at the same time I was promoted to Senior Teapot Adjuster (so back in December of 2015 – neither of our roles became effective until January of this year). And a priority check meeting is actually a great idea! That way it’s not, “Here’s what I want – give it to me,” but rather, “Here are the things I’m doing, here are the things I’d like to do, and is there anything you think I should be or could be doing to help the team?” Thanks for that suggestion. I’ll try it.

  35. Original Letter Writer*

    What is a nice way to say “check yourself before you wreck yourself?”
    I feel like my remote contractor just overreached to an inadvertent double-booking. My mistake, which I can and will own. I was working quickly and it slipped my mind. However, saying in IM “When I said my calendar was up to date, I meant look at my calendar for an open slot, not take one where I already have a meeting. 10-11 is the ONLY meeting I have that day. Everything else is wide open. Do you have any flexibility to do it anytime other than 10-11?” is to me both condescending and pretty unprofessional. This guy works on one of my projects and we were trying to set up our first 1:1 meeting. I don’t really want to meet with him at all now.
    Also, fwiw, he is likely to be interested in applying for an open position that we may have later in the year and that will report to me. He does good work, and we need him, but I don’t feel like I should let this go entirely.
    Am I just overreacting?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think you both are overreacting. Surely there was a nicer way for him to let you know you double-booked, but for all you know, he’s had a terrible day and you happened to be in the line of fire. I’d let it go, respond with a cheerful “my bad!” type of email, and reschedule the meeting.

    2. legalchef*

      Maybe he meant it as a joke and it didn’t come off that way over email? I could see it coming across that way if that was said in the right tone (and with the right relationship between the people).

      1. LizB*

        Yeah, I could see myself saying something like this to certain coworkers to jokingly give them crap about it, but I would only do it in person. It’s so much harder to convey tone over IM or email.

      2. LQ*

        I could absolutely see trying to do this as a joke and that might be his tone or he might be trying to be like hey it isn’t really a big deal and I’m going to tease about it because I’m not bothered and want to try to establish a positive relationship.

        I’d say let it go unless you see other serious issues.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would be pretty put-off by that, honestly. I would kind of put that in my mind as a first flag, and see if he does anything similar. But I don’t blame you for being upset.

      Seriously, all the guy needed to do was say, “Sorry, that slot is already booked! Take a look at my calendar when you get a chance and see what works for you.” People book meetings over mine ALL THE TIME, and it does irritate me, but it only rises to the level of making me angry when it’s the same person over and over again. Or when it’s my boss and he keeps telling us that calendars are so important and we should always look at them.

      1. Van Wilder*

        +1 to everything

        That response would 100% piss me off, but I also think you’re overreacting a little because it’s fresh. I’d follow AvonLady’s advice and, as AAM always says, use it as a data point.

      2. Doriana Gray*

        This. The contractor was out of line. From OP’s reaction, they don’t have the kind of relationship where it would be appropriate to say this if he was in fact joking.

    5. Sadsack*

      I think you may be overreacting. Just wait and see how your meeting goes, don’t base your opinion if this guy on one IM conversation. He may not have intended to come off the way you took it.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      It could be me. I am not sure what is wrong here. Sincere question: how would you have said it, if the situation was reversed?
      If I am getting this right, you looked at his calendar and you took the only slot all day that he had a meeting already scheduled. He pointed that out and asked for a different time. Maybe I missed something here.

      Unless he has a long history of nastiness, I’d just hold it in the best light possible and move on. Yes, that is exactly right, we have to work with other people who may or may not match our way of handling things. If it were me, I might apologize for the part I was responsible for OR if I had concerns, I would just ask him if he was angry about it. (It depends on a number of factors as to which route I would chose.) Sometimes humor can help bridge a misunderstanding, “I was not trying to get you to divide in two and be in two meetings at once!”

  36. Van Wilder*

    I share an office with my project supervisor and another coworker who technically works under me but we tend to work independently. This morning my supervisor was complaining about how other coworker was late with getting her some work, including a rant about how she doesn’t just set these deadlines for fun and the client is asking for this work. I nodded along and agreed (I find myself having to suck up to her more and more these days but that’s a separate issue).
    Anyway, when he came in, she told him he needs to be more timely and the client is asking and he needs to plan ahead and work weekends if he has to. He actually agreed (I thought this was huge because he usually gets all stubborn and quiet) but then she kept laying into him. And she said “and this goes for both of you, and I already talked to Van this morning.” Um, no? Sure, she talked to me this morning but I haven’t missed any deadlines. I’ve been trying my best to pick up coworker’s slack because he’s been really busy on another project too.
    I think my senior manager is doing the thing where she doesn’t want to make him feel singled out. But he should be singled out. Because he’s missing deadlines and I’m not. Ugh, I think I’m going to talk to her about it later if I get some time alone. Just wanted to vent because I’m annoyed, but advice is also appreciated.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      She lit in to him right in front of you? Maybe she said that she had the same talk with you just to level things out and still get her point across. Or maybe she realized too late in the conversation that she should have done it privately.

      I think it’s fine to go back in on it, when you are ALONE, and say, “Gee, I was not aware that I had missed any deadlines.” Then see what she says.

  37. Anon13*

    I’m glad I caught the open thread early! I’m having an issue and I’d like some advice. My boss often doesn’t read e-mails I send. Typically, I send a follow-up a day or two later, depending on the issue, but sometimes the e-mails don’t require a response from him, so I think he’s read them when, in fact, he hasn’t. I’ll also follow up in person (if he’s in the office) or over the phone (if he’s traveling) about many things, but, with the high volume of e-mails, it’s unproductive to follow up on every single one to make sure he received it. I usually eventually get a response on the issues I follow up on multiple times. However, recently, he has e-mailed me or checked in with me on the phone about things that I have already e-mailed him about before I’ve gotten the chance to follow up or on hings I didn’t think to follow up on . I feel he thinks I’m letting things slip when in fact I’m not – these are things I’ve checked in with him about already. He’d told me several times that if it’s not a brief question that I need a quick answer to, he prefers I e-mail him about it rather than discussing it in person/over the phone. I’m honestly at a loss for what to do. If it was an employee not reading/responding to e-mails, I feel I would have several options for how to proceed, but what do I do when it’s my boss?

    1. shep*

      Ick, that’s annoying. :/

      What I tend to do when this happens (which, luckily, is rare) is forward the original email with a quick note like, “Here’s what I sent last week. Please let me know if you need any more information.”

      Same if I’m on the phone. “Oh, I emailed you last week, but let me go ahead and forward it so you don’t have to dig.”

      I feel for you. This won’t alleviate things so much as it will control damage, but maybe it gives you some system of documentation to at least show, “Yes, I did this, here it is. Again.”

      1. Anon13*

        Thanks for the sympathy. And I think that’s a good thing for me to start doing. I do it occasionally, but sometimes I feel rude (?), I guess. (I’m not sure rude is the correct word, but I can’t think of a better one.) I will just make sure to be vigilant about the wording I’m using so I don’t sound annoyed, even though I am. I like the wording you used here and will probably use something similar.

        1. shep*

          Yeah, I used to worry it would come off as a bit blunt, but padded with a soften phrase (i.e., “Just wanted to forward this so you don’t have to dig for it!”, etc.), it’s super-efficient, and also serves as a nice record to show that you had indeed addressed whatever your boss required of you beforehand.

      2. S0phieChotek*

        Yes, I agree with this if this can be done in e a “nice” way.
        This happens with my boss too – every once in a while.
        Or he’ll call me to discuss something I’ve already emailed him the answer about–and basically I end up reading my email aloud to him over the phone. (I am starting to think that he does not “process” things well when reading.)

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      So your boss prefers email but doesn’t read email? I don’t know that there’s much you can do apart from deal with it, find a new job, or make some passive-aggressive jab by responding to his emails with a copy of the original email you sent that he didn’t read.

      Any chance he just gets too many emails from you?

      I always prefer to get individual emails, but maybe he prefers a digest of some kind? In other words, if you have 20 things to email him about, you could email him once in the morning about ten of the things and once in the afternoon about the other ten things?

      1. Anon13*

        Yes, it’s …odd, to say the least. I believe he uses his e-mail inbox as kind of his “to-do list,” even e-mailing himself reminders sometimes. If he read each e-mail more carefully, I think it could work well!

        And it is possible I’m sending him too many e-mails, though I think it’s more likely he’s receiving too many e-mails for him to handle in general. He tends to send multiple e-mails regarding one thing, which results in multiple responses and a higher chance of him missing e-mails. For example, when giving feedback on a document, he’ll give initial feedback upon receiving it, then more feedback 10 minutes later, etc.

        I do like the idea of trying to do a daily (or twice daily) “digest” type e-mail. I think the only hurdle would be that I need to make it clear that the e-mail contains information about multiple issues. Sometimes when I address more than one thing in an e-mail, he’ll ignore the second thing I address. (As I’m typing this out, I realize that my writing and general communication style is a lot more wordy than his. I tend to give longer explanations, remind him of the situation, etc., whereas he tends to give more curt responses. Perhaps that’s why he’s not reading my e-mails through to the end (in the instances where he’s reading them at all). Something for me to think about!)

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Yeah, this sounds kind of like not your problem. I mean, you definitely feel the effects of the problem, but it does sound as if he just doesn’t know how to manage his own inbox.

          1. Anon13*

            Yep, I’ll continue to try to make my responses more brief without sacrificing content, try to bundle e-mails when possible, etc., but I don’t think there’s a ton I can do! Some of the strategies suggested here for dealing with it seem helpful, though, even if they won’t fix the issue.

        2. Kelly L.*

          I’d think you had one of my bosses, except I don’t have any same-level peers right now. Sympathy.

        3. Development Professional*

          “I realize that my writing and general communication style is a lot more wordy than his.” This is the crux of your issue! Don’t overlook it!
          The reason that he’s not reading your emails carefully and says he wants email instead of a phone call unless it’s a quick question is very likely because he feels you take too long to communicate in general, give too much background, etc. He just wants to get to the point quickly.
          Have a look at Allison’s post from last week or two weeks ago about how to be less wordy. Try it and see if you get better results.

          1. Anon13*

            I guess I wasn’t clear about this, but, while that might be contributing to the problem, that’s definitely not the crux of it! He does the same thing to other colleagues (both people he supervises/people on my level and people on his level). He mentioned preferring e-mail over phone calls my first day and my predecessor mentioned it when I started, as well, so that wasn’t in response to my communication style. As far as giving less background, when I’ve tried that, he asks me for more details.

            I looked at Allison’s post from a few weeks ago the day she posted it and it mostly contained practices I already follow, but I’ll be sure to check it again to make sure. Honestly, though, I don’t think there’s much I can do to rectify this problem. It’s more that I need some input on how to deal with it!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Why not ask him if he has ideas for streamlining your emails to each other? Make some sort of joke about how you fill up his inbox and how could the two of you handle things in a more efficient manner?

      Use a tone of ” I want to help you”.

  38. MsMaryMary*

    Hi all. Can anyone suggest some good online resources to teach yourself Excel? We’ve had a couple threads fairly recently on Excel tips and tricks, but I’m looking for a good online tutorial (preferrably free). The last “teach yourself” post I found in the archives was 3-4 years old.

    The intern candidate I want to hire has practically no Excel skills. He’s a junior in college and math major. However, other than a brief intro in high school, he’s never used it. I feel that an internship is a perfect time to learn things like how to use business-related software. One of my coworkers feels not being familiar with Excel is a major shortcoming. He is shocked and appalled [eye roll]. I think it might help my argument to hire my candidate if I could suggest that we have the intern complete some online training before the internship or within the first few weeks. Give me some suggestions!

    1. Laura*

      To be fair, math majors don’t typically use Excel very much in college. In fact, I think the only students who use it heavily are probably studying accounting/business. It’s a great idea to send your intern some trainings before the start date. You could frame it as something you would do for any new intern (which you should). Does your coworker actually have any say in the hiring decision?

      1. MsMaryMary*

        My coworker is actually our Chief Consulting Officer. He used to be our COO, but a lack of soft skills meant a lot of his operational initiatives did not go over well. He is, however, still involved in hiring and has some strong opinions about who our company should hire. For instance, he’s adamant (and kind of snobby about it) that all of our hires should have a college degree, even though it’s not really necessary for several sales and customer service roles.

        For our interns, we have someone who volunteered to be the intern coordinator, and she should be the hiring manager and decision maker. I’ve been helping her, since she’s never been a hiring manager before and I have. Ideally we’d have a consensus on who to hire, and it’s going to be difficult if someone in the C-suite isn’t in agreement on which candidate to make an offer to.

    3. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

      My Online Training Hub and Chandoo dot org. They both have blogs and newsletters where they send out (they may be more suitable to more advanced users, though). They both also have some reasonably priced courses. I’ve taken MOTH’s dashboard course, which is more advanced but was amazing. I also took a course through Chandoo.

      If you let me know what types of skills he needs to learn for the job, I could probably help some more.

      2. MsMaryMary*

        That’s the other thing that annoys me about disqualifying someone who isn’t familiar with Excel. We don’t do anything complex with it. Generally, we use Excel to do arithmetic, store and organize batches of data, and to format and present financial information. Maybe the intern might need to create a graph. 80-90% of what needs to be done in Excel is done by updating existing templates, not creating anything from scratch. Beginner level Excel knowledge is fine, and the candidate seems like he would catch on pretty quickly.

    4. Student*

      If he is a math major, this is all unnecessary. Give him real tasks. He’ll figure it out from using the help function and Google just fine. He’s almost certainly already using software that is much, much more mathematically sophisticated than Excel as part of his normal coursework. Making him take an Excel training course is likely to bore him to tears.

  39. smedley*

    Three years ago I took a job with a business that is just getting started in my field of expertise. My direct supervisor doesn’t know much about my field but his boss was a real pro. I say was because she left about six months ago and now we are floundering. The company brought in some consultants to help us but since the company doesn’t know much about the field, they gave the consultants very broad powers and free reign to take on whatever they wanted–there is no contract and no parameters for their work. First the consultants were working in other departments, but their work was frustrated in that area so suddenly, they have turned all of their attention on my department! They just kind of announced that they would be doing something that is a part of my role and told me that my only role in the project would be as a sort of observer. I spoke to my supervisor and the person liaising with the consultants in HR and they both say the consultants are only there to guide and advise–they both say they didn’t know anything about this, but since they don’t know much about my job, they aren’t really willing to step in and try to push back on the consultants. What can I do in a situation like this to get back my responsibilities? I am very concerned about what kinds of damage the consultants can do, acting without much knowledge of what I have done to date working with our previous executive officer.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds like you have to drag your boss into this even if she is kicking and screaming the whole way.
      “Boss, we have a real problem here. The consultants are taking away half my work and it is reasonable to assume the work will not be done correctly because of their lack of familiarity with the particulars of our situation.”

  40. NASAcat*

    How do I nicely say that you are not my only client and I cannot hold your hand through the process (although I will try my best!).

    I currently work on a team of 3 people with about 5,000 clients. I think most understand that they are not the only Teapot Providers in the world, but occasionally we get some clients who get really upset that we don’t answer their emails within 5 minutes and know exactly who they are despite their email subject line only saying “HELP!” and there is no signature in their email. Oh and this is government, so we provide these services at no cost, so it’s not like they are paying me/us.

    I will soon take on a project with approximately 10,000 clients all by myself so I want to be as pleasant as possible when having to deal with those who think that the sun revolves around their Teapot Provider Store. TIA.

    1. louise*

      Bah! I get phone calls from employees who only give me their first name. We have a lot of duplicate names and I want to be rude and say “Why do you think I would know which one you are? Just ID yourself, already.”

      Could you set up an auto reply on email? I don’t love this option, but maybe it could help. “Thanks for your email! Please be sure your email included your [name/company name/detailed description of problem/whatever] so I can get you an answer as quickly as possible. We try to respond within [1 hour/business day/whatever]. “

    2. Not So NewReader*

      As much as possible set their expectations early on. This means, “Our standard response time is x hours/days. For us to assist you, you will need to include this information in your email: [list here].”

      Know your limits. “That is not a service we provide.” OR “That is out beyond our expertise. You can contact Jane at Other Agency if you want further info.”

  41. recruiter*

    I’m an internal recruiter and have been working on a very hard to fill (rural location, very specialized job) job FOREVER and finally made an offer this week to a candidate…who turned me down. WAH! But I talked it through with him, addressed his fears (he was basically just scared of making a change…which aren’t we all?!) and he accepted the job and starts in two weeks. SO excited and makes me feel like a badass!

  42. Collie*

    I have a reference who is leaving his job at the end of July. I heard he was leaving through the grapevine and, to my knowledge, he has not officially announced this, though the job has been posted (internally). I no longer work for this person but I am actively using them as a reference (which he knows). The contact info I have for him is all work contact. I haven’t heard about updated info and I’m not sure he’ll reach out to update that with me when he leaves. Should I ask him, knowing that his leaving hasn’t been announced? Should I wait and see, potentially losing him as a reference? Send an email asking if there were any contact updates I should be aware of? After I left this position, we became Facebook friends, but if he still hasn’t announced his leaving, I don’t know if it’d be appropriate to follow up that way after the fact.

    1. Sadsack*

      I’d say who cares if he has officially announced? You know about it, so I think you should just call him. Say you heard through the grapevine and ask if he would mind if you get alternate contact info because you’ll need it if he is still willing to be a reference. Maybe start with that, actually. You heard he is moving on and is he still willing to be a reference. If so, you’ll need his contact info.

  43. Scotty_Smalls*

    I’m new to the working world, how do cost of living raises work? Let’s say someone was earning 6 dollars above minimum wage, and the minimum wage increases, should the employees’ wage increase automatically as well? If the employee is highly rated in their performance review what kind of raise should they look for?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think it really depends on your company. There is no legal requirement that employers offer a cost-of-living increase. Many do, not all. So it’s very possible that if your employer is stingy, and you make $6 above minimum wage and minimum wage increases, you may still make what you were making before. In my experience, cost-of-living increase is usually between 2% and 3% of your salary.

    2. Charlotte Collins*

      Cost of living increases are not tied to performance reviews. Generally, if your position gets one, everyone in your position will get one, and it’s often a set percentage. It’s really up to your employer, unless you are in a union or have a contract, in which case the contract (union or individual) will spell it out.

      If the minimum wage increase is significant enough, a good employer should take that into account in order to not lose people.

    3. all aboard the anon train*

      I’ve found that cost of living raises are very rarely actual cost of living raises and more like 1% – 3%, which depending where you live, isn’t very much. In my experience, they’re usually done so people will feel happy about getting a raise, but they’re not enough to make an impact.

      We got a 1% cost of living raise this year which all total, barely covers all my utility bills for one month. And worse, my company bases their COL increase on where headquarters is located, which is in rural Ohio, versus the actual division locations so the offices in Boston, NYC, and San Fran lose out.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      In my experience, when the minimum wage increases, the only people who are benefited are those making minimum wage or under the new minimum. They get moved up to minimum. If you’re $.25 over minimum and it goes up by $.15, then you’re now $.10 over minimum. If you’re $6 over minimum, a change to the minimum almost certainly won’t affect you, unless you have a surprisingly good boss.

      Cost of living raises seem to be 1-3%, a bit more if you’re lucky, less or nothing for a lot of people.

  44. Confused Publisher*

    I know we’ve had similar discussions here in the past, but would you be willing to talk about how you tweaked your CV/resume when trying to switch industries?
    I’m in academic publishing, and looking to move into academic administration and whilst in my head I can see how many of the skills are transferable, I can’t seem to start with getting my very publishing/editorial/teaching-heavy CV reframed. (I’m in the UK: hence my greater comfort with the word CV.)
    Thank you everyone for all the awesome advice you’ve given me so far.

    1. Laura*

      I’m a fairly new grad, but I started in one industry and ended up in higher ed. When I applied for my current job, I removed the irrelevant positions from my resume and made it specific to my higher ed experience. For your CV, I would focus on the mentoring/leadership aspects of your previous roles, which will be applicable to academic administration.

    2. The bread burglar*

      In your CV you want to make sure that the transferable skills are highlighted without falsifying any of the information though in your case it sounds like the move is close enough the tweaks won’t be that big. I would start by writing down the skills you believe would transfer well on a piece of paper (or typed on word/notepad), as well as checking out some job descriptions for roles you think you would like to apply for and checking if they have a job and person specification as most academic roles do. They’ll list what they think is relevant and are looking for so you have a really good idea of what you should emphasise. Then take you current CV and say “where do I have x experience/something similar.” and if it doesn’t contain that information try to work it in (but never lie on your CV).

      You’ll also want to have a kickass cover letter that shows off that you have knowledge of academic environments/issues important to academics as well as transferable skills. This is a great place to mention your attention to detail (which I imagine is required in editiorials and publishing in general), and some of the other person spec listings that aren’t CV appropriate.

      You are probably already aware of this but most academic (at least higher education level) positions here in the UK are posted on the jobs.ac.uk so you’ll want to check there. You’ll have to click apply now on a role to be transferred to the academic institutions website to access the job and person specs.

      1. Confused Publisher*

        First of all, can I just say that I love your username?
        Secondly, thanks for the useful advice: I’ll be monitoring jobs.ac.uk more closely now.

    2. Muriel Heslop*

      With my first formal mentor (teaching middle school), I dubbed myself “The Mento” and requested that people call me “The Freshmaker.” In hindsight, I am appalled (I was young!) but what’s even more surprising is that people went along with calling me that.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Can I be a pedant the other way and say mentee is a legitimate word in the dictionary, and it means what you think it does (and, yes, it’s also listed as a synonym of protégé)?

      1. Charlotte Collins*

        But etymologically it’s a backformation. Mentor was the tutor of Telemachus. Therefore, I believe Mentor/Telemachus should also be acceptable.

      2. Elsajeni*

        I do feel like they have different connotations, too — “protege” suggests someone you have personally picked out as special, so “mentee” is useful for a lot of more formal mentoring situations, where everyone in X profession gets a mentor (not just the special ones), or where you’re matched as mentor/mentee by some outside force instead of by the mentor’s choice.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Protege just seems like a more specific situation to me. I tend to steer clear of it because it feels a bit elite to me. If I were teaching someone to play the violin then I would say protege. But if I am working a two-bit job, then this person is a mentee. Why make it sound bigger than what it is?

    5. ladyguinevere*

      Yes! We are launching a mentor program at work and they keep using mentor/mentee, and it makes me twitchy!

      1. arjumand*

        I can feel my eyelid going into spasm right now.

        How about “tow the line” instead of the correct “toe the line”?

        1. Isben Takes Tea*

          Oh my gosh CUE instead of QUEUE. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t use a q when you have the opportunity to, but regardless, a cue is a stick you hit things with.

        1. Undine*

          The reins are what you use to control a horse. If you give a horse a free, loose, or long rein, you are “giving him his head”, and he has (more) freedom over where he can go. If you keep a horse on a tight rein, you are controlling where he can go, (although if you are heavy-handed or high-handed, you might pull him up short, unless of course, he takes the bit between his teeth.)

      3. Talvi*

        Mixing up effect and affect makes me twitchy. Both exist as a noun or a verb… just please get the right one in the right context!

      4. Undine*

        What I find interesting about free “reign” is (a) it’s replacing one obsolete thing with another, and (b) even so, most of us have met more horses than kings, so why do people default to royalty?

  46. Fawnling*

    Vent:
    My coworker is singing, humming, and popping bubble wrap in her cubicle. I have asked nicely and she won’t stop >:|

    1. louise*

      There’s whistling across the hall from me. No discernible melody, just random strings of notes. And the sound of my last nerve going tauter and tauter…

        1. louise*

          Right back at you! This guy only whistles occasionally, but it’s been nonstop for almost 2 weeks now. His wife has been in the hospital that whole time and I wonder if he’s more stressed than he realizes and this absent minded whistling is coming from that.

          I’m telling myself that’s the reason so I feel compassionate instead of violent.

          1. TheSoundkeeper*

            In an office long ago and far away, we had a whistler. His hallmate, becoming tired of it, picked up his baseball bat (not sure why he had it in the office), strolled over, and inquired whether whistler could please knock it the heck off.
            Whistler: “Sorry, I just do it unconsciously.”
            Hallmate (slapping baseball bat into his palm suggestively): “That can be arranged.”

      2. SerfinUSA*

        We have a no-tune whistler in my department. Some days it feels like a dry socket wisdom tooth extraction.

    2. Wendy Darling*

      I’m going to reread this every time I get crabby about working from home (which has many benefits such as my commute is 10 yards, but I don’t like very much because I haven’t gone more than 1 mile from my apartment in six days).

      1. Windchime*

        I was drumming my fingers once and my coworker said, “Hey! Buddy Rich!”. That cued me to stop. He was an incessant pen-clicker, so one day I snatched his pen out of his hand and taped the clicky-thing down so he couldn’t click-click-click it any more. We were good friends, though, so that made it OK for us to tease each other about it.

    4. Sadsack*

      OK, I can understand people humming or singing quietly because sometimes I do that without realizing it. But the bubble wrap is bullshit. She certainly can control that and should stop if you ask her.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I have rules about bubble wrap. If you are snapping bubble wrap within my ear shot you MUST give me some, too or put yours away.

        Us humans. We amuse so easily.

      2. Afiendishthingy*

        I gotta say the bubble wrap kind of cracks me up. I know it has to be super annoying but from my outside perspective I just find it hilarious…

      3. QualityControlFreak*

        Yeah…. I agree she should stop if you ask her. But bubble wrap can be an effective tool for stress relief. The large-cell type can be placed on the floor and stomped for a satisfying explosion. (That said, this will not go over well in every situation. And even in an environment where this is acceptable, warn people first.)

  47. Batshua*

    I have an interview today for a job that might be a major promotion given that it’s US government. Unfortunately for me, my two coworkers who are both senior to me have also applied. (I suspected as much, but I got confirmation yesterday, which somehow feels worse than knowing it’s likely.)

    I think I’m prepared to interview, at least, as much as anyone can be, but I thought I’d vent my anxiety and fish for good wishes in the open thread. :)

    2. Batshua*

      Oh gods, I’ve turned entirely into a stressbucket. We’re understaffed today and now I’m [supposed to be] doing the work of 3 people. I didn’t get my morning break and I’m peeved and frustrated because my interview is at 1 and because we’re understaffed, I won’t get lunch until AFTER my interview. We have enough staff for coverage, but instead of slightly adjusting THEIR lunches say, 15 minutes each, I’m forfeiting a reasonable time to have mine.

      I’m trying to figure out if I can discreetly eat my lunch at my desk now. D:

  48. Pregnant*

    When is the best time to disclose pregnancy at work? I’m nearing the second trimester and wondering if I should just keep it undisclosed for as long as possible.

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      The beginning of the second trimester seems to be the rule of thumb, but YMMV. I disclosed one at eight weeks because I was freaking out, one at eight weeks because of complications, one not at all (I miscarried at six weeks) and one at 13 weeks. The best time is when you feel like you should. I felt it was important I loop in my boss and HR because of leave, but I let everyone else find out organically.

      Good luck!

    2. Van Wilder*

      I’m 13 weeks now. I told my closest coworkers at 8 weeks because I was having a lot of doctors’ appointments. Then I told my counselor (like a mentor position) at 10 weeks to get some advice. Then he let it slip to one person who let it slip to one person. I was annoyed at first but I just gradually started telling people. Finally this week I think I’ve gotten most people.

      My question is: how do you tell people? I’ve just been awkwardly blurting it out. My officemates laugh at me because they’ve had to hear me tell so many people and I seem to be getting worse at it. I wish I could just send an email but for some reason people don’t do that here. I almost feel like I could do it anyway but I don’t quite feel comfortable.

      1. Anne*

        I’ve had that issue too! I’m pregnant with #2 and this time I’ve just been letting it spread its way around the department, or bringing it up in conversation. I told my boss, the rest of my team, and my close coworker friends. I’m 17 weeks now and have been wearing fitted shirts that show my belly and assuming that people who don’t know will figure it out.

    3. NASAcat*

      My coworker waited until she was visibly pregnant which was about 5 months at the time. We all work remotely so she didn’t want us to be surprised when we saw her at the next in-person meeting. She just sent an email basically saying the same thing…”don’t want to shock you the next time we see each other, I’m pregnant.”

      Just send this to out to your team. Everyone else will find out when the baby shower announcement or birth announcement rolls around ;)

      Congrats!

    4. Jen RO*

      I think it’s most common to announce once you enter the second trimester – my department has had 4 pregnant people in the past few years and they generally told our manager around the 3-4 months mark. (They usually disclosed earlier to coworkers they were closer to, but swore them to secrecy.)

    5. Anne*

      Pregnant with baby #2, and I generally spread the news around the beginning of the second trimester. I didn’t want it to be public too early in case something happened, but I couldn’t have kept it a secret for much past 13-14 weeks. My department is very friendly towards pregnant women and I knew that everyone would be excited for me (both of the bosses that I’ve worked for have had kids recently). With this baby I wound up telling my boss at around 8 weeks in my performance review, but I trusted her to keep it quiet until I was ready for it to be public. It really depends on what you want to do, there’s no “right” answer.

  49. anonymous (and heavy hearted) 2 weeks ago*

    Good news update!

    2 Fridays ago I talked about an employee my boss wanted me to let go do to not being able to work for a health condition and not qualifying for FMLA or ADA protection.

    In the end, we did NOT let him go! He’s not back to work yet, so it’s not fully resolved, but my boss agreed to give him the month of April with us covering his insurance. The employee told me this week that he hopes he’s cleared to return at his next appt in 2 weeks.

    This was truly a case where I just needed to distract my boss from thinking about it long enough to keep him on the insurance another month. It worked. :) It wasn’t a clean win, but a win’s a win, right?!

    So thankful for all the encouraging words so many commenters shared, along with commiseration re:our jacked up health insurance system and the boss appearing cold-hearted.

  50. ElleBerry*

    My boss talks so much that it literally exhausts me. A simple question or comment can elicit a super long winded commentary/answer/pessimistic contrary to anything I ask or say. And by anything I mean EVERYTHING. I’m finding it harder and harder to tolerate this. A lot of the time I don’t even get the answer I need, when I need it, because I have to sift through thousands of words of unnecessary context before I realize she didn’t even answer my question! None of the social cues you’d give to someone that insists on droning on and on and repeating themselves, just to get out a point that could have been made in 1/16th of the time it took them to answer seem to work. I’ve tried politely interrupting to redirect, I’ve tried slowly backing away, I’ve tried to make my questions as straight forward and to the point as possible, but it’s all for naught. If I email, I get a follow up conversation about the email. I try to avoid having to ask her questions unless absolutely necessary, but that’s not how I want things to be. I want to be able to go to my boss, ask a question and get an answer without losing 30 minutes to an hour of my life. Is that too much to ask?

    Can anybody relate? Any suggestions?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      AAM just posted something similar, related to handling a coworker. I’ll post it in a separate link. I think you could tweak some of this advice to be appropriate for your boss.

    2. Debbie*

      Oh yes! My boss is the same way – talks wayyy too much. I was finding out about her entire life outside of work (I didn’t care to know all that), and she talked shit about her own boss, everyone in the building. One day I had enough and blew up at her – come to find out, she’s a social nightmare, and doesn’t know when things are inappropriate or crossing the boundaries. She asked me to tell her when she’s sharing too much. I now reserve 30 minutes of my day for when she comes in and bombard her with questions then (she hates mornings, so its easier to get questions answered, and move on without the chit-chat). The rest of the day, I put in ear buds – sometimes there’s no music even playing, and I ignore any interruptions, citing I can’t hear when I have music on. :) It works for me. Best of luck.

    3. Doriana Gray*

      No suggestions, but I can relate. My last boss was like this, and that was one of the many reasons I had to leave her team.

  51. T3k*

    Just 2 more weeks and I’ll be free of this job! Mom doesn’t like that I don’t have anything lined up, and trust me, I don’t like it myself either, and if I could find any good reason to stay and keep applying elsewhere, I would. But there is no good reason. So I’m going to take some online courses, maybe some local college classes, while applying for other jobs. Probably call up the local creative agency as well to get me something. At least the boss has hired another person to help out but I don’t think they’re a designer because she hasn’t bothered to ask me to train them.

  52. Aella*

    Applying for jobs right, left, and centre, I came across a job application which asked ‘If you were a vegetable, what kind of vegetable would you be? Why?’ (Suggestions from friends included. “Eggplant. *leer*” and “Salsify. Because I like explaining myself.”)

    I suppose I should just be grateful the cancer charity didn’t ask what type of cancer I’d be and why.

    1. Debbie*

      Sounds like a terrible interview question. I’ve always questioned what kind of thing a company would learn by using their time to ask such things.

      1. Aella*

        To be scrupulously fair, the company do sell vegetables. But. I wouldn’t think you want your staff to identify with your product.

    2. Emmie*

      Terrible question. “I would be a tomato. Sometimes a veggie, other times a fruit – hey, it has seeds. Or a cucumber, but I did not spell that correctly.”

    4. Kit*

      I had an interview about a year ago where there were only 8 questions, one was the veggie one, and the other was what animal I’d be. Just call me Carrot Fox.

  53. GT*

    I’m currently in academia, as a project manager/post-doc (phd in a science field). I’m good at my job, but my boss is not happy that he had to hire me. The original man in the position left for a better one; I was the assistant promoted up to manager. They wanted a man. I can expect an enthusiastic turning to a lukewarm reference upon questioning. The academic job market is terrible and I’m tired of the long hours/never ending aspect of the job, and the isolation/sexism. I’m thinking of leaving academia, but have no idea where to start looking. How do I format my resume so that my academic project management work (multimillion dollar grant budgeting, direct supervision of up to 12 people, international collaboration and networking) is taken seriously in the private sector?

    1. Liana*

      I think you’ve got a pretty good start right there, actually. “Successfully managed a grant budget of 2.5 million dollars”, “Directly supervised a 12-person department”, “and “Collaborated with teapot makers all over the world” are all things that will look great regardless of industry. I don’t know how long your resume/CV is, but a lot of academic types tend to have CVs that are pages and pages long, so just remember to keep it short and sweet! You don’t need to list every committee you’ve served on or provide a list of publications.

    2. AnonAcademic*

      I’m also a postdoc managing a large grant (RO1). I have recently been studying the PMBOK (Project management body of knowledge) which is the standardized set of definitions and procedures PMs use in the private sector. It’s pretty intuitive to learn if you’ve been running research projects. The biggest help it’s been for me is identifying concretely how I add value in ways that could easily translate to a resume were I to pursue private sector jobs, and by giving me the vocabulary to talk in “business speak” (e.g. “stakeholder management” instead of “keeping the boss man happy”).

  54. LibrarianJ*

    Posted this last week pretty late in the thread; asking again in hopes of getting additional feedback —

    I’m hoping for advice from anyone with experience supervising student workers. I’ve recently been put in charge of supervising student assistants in my department, and since I’ve never managed anyone before I’m a little lost.

    Students in my department (R) are chosen from a pool of students who work for Dept A (slightly lower-level work), and usually have both A and R shifts. As far as HR is concerned, they report to supervisors in Dept A, but someone from R (me, now) at least nominally supervises R-related shift changes, duties, etc. But I’m having a lot of trouble asserting my authority. Many of the students ignore their shift duties, blow off their required training, don’t respond to my emails (or read them, I suspect) or get appropriate coverage when they have to skip a shift (for non-illness reasons). Because they provide R coverage in off-hours, a lot of their shifts are unsupervised. I am pretty young and am not sure how much of a role this is playing as far as lack of respect.

    Because of Dept A’s expectations and the way things generally work here, I think the students would have to do something far more egregious for me to be able to fire anyone. And I can’t take away the privilege of working for R (working for R comes with a salary increase that I can’t take away, so I would basically be letting them do A-level work at R-level pay, which is hardly a punishment).So I’m really at my wits end.

    Most of the current staff is graduating this year, so I’ll have a chance to start over in the fall, and I want to make sure I start off on the right foot.There’s been a lot of confusion about who is in charge of what part of their jobs this year, which is not helping, and I’ve taken steps to correct that for next time. But I’m trying to come up with other things that I can do so that next year goes more smoothly. I’ve considered doing things like putting read receipts on important e-mails (feels very micromanager-y, even for students) or staying during off-hours to supervise for the first round of shifts each year (which would require me to work, at minimum, 6 12-hour days in a row, so not my first choice — but I’m exempt, so I could if needed). But I don’t know if there are other things I should try, or anything I could do to improve my management skills generally….

    1. GT*

      I also supervise students, and have some of the same restrictions. These don’t sound like atypical student workers, unfortunately. Being young is probably not as much of a hindrance as you might think; I’ve found my students classified me as an “adult” with them as “kids” when I started teaching at 24 (I didn’t feel more “adult” than them!). Just be assertive and act like you are in charge.
      Without the ability to impose some sort of punishment/consequences, you don’t have much ground to stand on, though. I’d lay out expectations very clearly initially (in writing, printed out, which they sign – give them a copy and email them a copy). I’d also get with someone in charge at Department A to talk about consequences you can impose – you can decrease salary at universities, but you have to justify it. Reduced duties should be a justification – send them back to Department A exclusively if they keep messing up. Good luck!

      1. LibrarianJ*

        Well, I suppose I’m glad to know this is atypical (I’m a millenial myself, so I’m not usually one to pick up the ‘irresponsible youth’ complaints, but these students….).

        I did talk to the head of Dept A after one particularly disrespectful incident last semester (student informed me she would not be completing her training exercises because she saves her shift for her HW. In part but not only because many of the students are seniors, Head A basically said that it was too complicated to do a salary decrease (any HR paperwork would have to go through A because A hired them), and basically said I could put a complaint in her HR file (which in retrospect, I ought to have done) or offer the student the chance to back out of R shifts. The student did not want to do this and showed up sobbing in Head A’s office and got the situation smoothed over in her favor, which is the other issue (and this may mean there’s nothing to be done ) — Dept A and I fundamentally disagree on how strict the expectations should be and they tend to make excuses for students.

        I did write up the job responsibilities before R workers were chosen for next year, so I’m hoping that that will help. Reinforcing them repeatedly with this group has not seemed to work. I have on multiple occasions sent written reminders and asked them to confirm they’d received/read the notice, but I’m struggling with what consequences I can impose (or would be appropriate to impose) on the 3-5 students who inevitably never respond.

        1. LibrarianJ*

          Forgot to add — thank you for the advice! I will check in with Dept A again on consequences; maybe they’d be more willing to work with me when we’re not talking about workers who are nearly graduated.

        2. GT*

          Wow. Sounds like Head A has just given up on getting the workers to do anything. I’m sorry. That’s definitely an uphill battle.

    2. Professionally Anon*

      I supervise the student workers for my office, but honestly that truly just means that I approve their time cards so they can get paid. I do have the best connection with them and that’s probably because I interview applicants so I am one of the first people they become acquainted with in the office. I’m not sure what you could do if you’re not allowed to pick your student assistants. Would a checklist of job requirements be beneficial at all?

      1. LibrarianJ*

        I would LOVE to be able to interview my assistants. This year I did get advance notice of the short-list, at least, but I don’t really get to know the students while they’re in Dept A so the names alone didn’t tell me much.

        I did create a checklist of requirements which students were actually given before accepting R work for next year (for the first time). I am hoping that that helps! They have a ‘class’ in our CMS where all the duties are posted, there are reminders at their workstation, and I send out emails when I notice a problem, but most of that seems to go completely unnoticed. Maybe I can try creating an actual ‘checklist’ that they have to check off each shift, for next year.

    3. Emmie*

      This is a tough set up, but you can manage this. Treat student workers as you would workers generally. Address the problems at the first occurance – even if it’s minor. Be consistant with every employee, and address all issues fairly. Work with the other manager. Let him / her know about the staff management issues, and the strucutre. Discuss how you will address those issues next year, and get his / her buy-in to addressing the performance issues. If a person performs poorly at half of his / her job, they perform poorly at the whole thing. Have concrete examples of how you’ve addressed these issues, and how they keep occuring. I would also inform any other necessary person (i.e. the director you share with the other person, the HR contact who assigns employees, or some equivalent.) Find out if there is a root cause of this issue. For instance, if an employee gets paid $1 more an hour to do work in the other department then there is an incentive to do the work better in the other department or to spend more work study time devoted to the project. Also, think critically about your own skills as a manager. Could you be more consistant? How will you address the peformance issues? Can you work with the other manager to create consequences (i.e. written warning, performance improvement plan.) The earlier commenter was right. You are already seen as not one of them b/c you are done with school. You are older, so you need to follow through with the authority, and consequences – especially by working with the other manager. Good luck!

    4. pony tailed wonder*

      Can you take away the prime shifts from the problem children and give them to the ones who get it?

    5. TootsNYC*

      Without the ability to impose some sort of punishment/consequences, you don’t have much ground to stand on,

      There are always rewards!

      And there’s also mere accountability. Keep a calendar for each person, and keep track of when they’re late, bail on their shift, don’t respond to emails, etc.
      And sit down and say, “Look at this; this is a factual record, not just your vague memory of what’s going on.” And also say, “Here is what this cost–because you didn’t respond to the email, i had to re-email, etc., etc., and it wasted my time. I have a lot on my plate! Other people pay a cost when you don’t follow through.”

    6. Aisling*

      I work in a public library, but we also had student workers from a nearby school, and we had enough issues with the school and the students that we stopped the program. I was spending way too much time managing for the low amount of work they were putting out. Is there any way to say that you don’t want to accept the students that won’t do the work, or that you don’t want them at all?

  55. TheIntern*

    Anxiously awaiting to hear back about a job today. I am one of two finalists, thanks so much to AAM and readers for support and guidance!

  56. Work vs Life*

    Anyone have any tips on maintaining/fostering a work-life balance?

    I’ve been at my current job for about 8 months (it is normal to leave my position after 1-2 years), and I’m starting to reach the down slope on the bell curve in terms of my tolerance and job satisfaction.

    Between this job + my 1.5-hour commute, I’m really starting to resent how much time this is taking up in my life — it’s cutting into my time to do other things I love: i.e., some family obligations, a relationship I’m committed to, volunteer work I’m passionate about, and studying for potential grad school(!). I’m not really willing to sacrifice any of these 4 things.

    The thing is, I took this job because I needed it (couldn’t find anything else at the time), but I KNOW for sure that I don’t want to stay in this industry. I really hate it. Even if grad school doesn’t work out & I go the “my job is to sustain me, not fulfill me” route, this would not be the industry I’d do that with. I definitely plan to start looking again come around fall/late summer for something else.

    I’m falling into that hole of “work all day at a job you hate, come home too tired to do anything but collapse and get up the next day to do it all over again” and it’s really starting to make me crazy. I wake up at 7 AM and don’t get home until 8 PM.

    I feel guilty, because other than how much I dislike the general industry, my boss is very supportive of me, I’m considered a high performer, and the hours (usually 9 am to anywhere from 5:30-6:30, sometimes needing overtime) are actually VERY good — in this industry they could be FAR worse than that. So I feel I shouldn’t complain, but at the same time, I’m not making any progress in the other things I want to do to move myself forward and dont know if I can just hack it until I can hopefully find something else. I want to find a way to try and work in something productive now, if possible.

    Anyone ever been in this situation with any advice? How do you get out of the “full time+long commute = exhausted robot” cycle?

    1. SweetAnnie*

      Maybe you just need a couple of days off to recharge? I get a little crazed with being on the hamster wheel constantly and taking a Friday or Monday off now and then and doing something just for myself helps me relax.

      As for a long term solution, I think you have to narrow down your priorities and possibly make some hard decisions as to where you are comfortable with sacrificing. In situations like this (and believe me, I get it because I wake up at 6am and get home at 6am if I’m lucky) something’s gotta give. Can you get a job closer to home in the same industry with comparable pay? If no, then are you willing to sacrifice something in order to not have such a crazy commute? Could you move closer to the job? What sacrifices would that mean? Which is more important to you – work life or home life?

    2. T3k*

      Honestly, I saw my only option out of mine was to quit. Granted, I live at home (job doesn’t even pay enough for to rent a place, even with roommates) but I had enough saved up to continue paying my half of the groceries, insurance, phone, etc. for about 6+ months. My reasoning was, at this point, I’d rather take a job from a temp agency in the area than continue another month where I am because I wasn’t gaining any useful skills I needed so I was just wasting my time in a dead end job that undervalued and underpaid me.

      But if you can’t do that, maybe look into taking a day off each week if you can work that into your schedule? Of course that depends on your job’s culture and how flexible they are.

    3. Algae*

      Following, because I’m going through this some too. I know the answer is it’s time to move on, but…

    4. LCL*

      It sounds like your commute is long, but there is something else happening here. I have seen other young (post college) people bring up this question. Somewhere, somehow, you have been given unrealistic expectations about managing life with a full time job. You state your job is interfering with family obligations, volunteer work, study and your relationship, yet you don’t want to sacrifice any of those things. It’s either back off on some activities, or back off on your job.

      You have control over your after work activities. If you are getting exhausted, back off a little bit. It’s a myth that you can mix full time work with full time play. Since you hate your job and the industry, it makes the most sense for now to put your spare energy into finding another job. But even if you find your perfect job, you will still have to decide how much time to spend on your after work fun. The joy of being an adult is you can change your priorities when you want.

      1. Chocolate Teapot Sales + Service*

        “Two truths and a lie” is fun and can get some great conversations going. I think it’s more fun with small groups of 5-10 people who already know each other a little (instead of larger/smaller groups of total strangers), but ymmv.

        If you have a huge group, I think it’s fun to play “magic word”: Each person gets a clothespin with a different word on it, and puts it somewhere where the pin is visible but the word isn’t. You have to avoid saying your magic word, but if you hear anyone say yours, you can take their pin. Whoever has the most pins at the end of the game wins a gift card or something.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Sure. What is the outcome you want? (More specific than “team building.” Like: staff know who they should reach out to with which kinds of questions; staff are more willing to go the extra mile to help each other out; new staff are integrated as part of the team, etc.)

      1. LawCat*

        I don’t want a particular outcome. I had an interview this week and the manager (who had been the manager for about 6 months) mentioned she was planning some team building exercises when they hired the new staff. She said the goal was to learn how everyone communicates as people may have different ways of communicating. On the one hand, I appreciated that she seemed conscientious that people are different and don’t all need to be approached in exactly the same way. But on the other hand, I was having flashbacks to a pointless team building exercise in the past where we had to get into little groups and race to assemble puzzles while the managers observed us assembling the puzzles.

        So I’m just trying to find out if there are actually any good team building exercises. I’ve had good team trainings in the past (like we are all in the same training together about something related to our work), but when I think of anything that was labeled as team building, I can’t think of one that was useful.

        1. Ultraviolet*

          In one of my college classes, we did an icebreaker game where one person would ask a getting-to-know-you question of a random person, who would answer and then ask a different question of another random person, etc. Our questions were basically related to our college experience: What was the hardest class you’ve taken? Did you ever live on campus? What’s your favorite place to eat around campus?

          I know this isn’t exactly a team-building exercise, but it’s definitely the closest I’ve come to an enjoyable one. I could imagine making it all closely work-related and maybe turning it into a contest about who can remember their coworkers’ answers.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I fully support this!

        When I read team building, I thought it meant doing trust falls and playing silly games to “bond” with your team members. If it’s just doing work well and not being a jerk, yes—those are great team-building activities!

    4. all aboard the anon train*

      I’ve never minded having catered lunches or pizza and going around talking about favorite books or movies/tv or music. Even pop culture trivia games are fun. Anything that delves into physical activity or sharing personal details is automatically out.

    6. neverjaunty*

      No.

      If what you want is something to help your team be happier and feel recognized on top of already being treated well, a paid lunch or other free, nice-but-not-over-the-top, event that doesn’t cut into free time or mess up their workload is a great thing. But the way you build a team is for that team to do good, productive work together. “Let’s all go white-water rafting!” is not going to fix a problem with management or make people who are a bad fit become a ‘team’.

      1. LawCat*

        It’s not something I am putting on. See my comment to Victoria Nonprofit above.

        Just looking for some perspective as a future “team building” came up in an interview and I only have negative associations with things labeled as such. (Having to assemble puzzles with managers looking on, having to go bowling, having to go somewhere for team building without being told where we were going and being brushed off when uncomfortable with that, being put on the spot to share personal information with a group.)

    8. Anxa*

      In my opinion: giving people the space, time, and money to collaborate and communicate and touch base if they work in a more fragmented environment day-to-day.

      I can tell you about some of my coworkers’ ‘colors,’ their abilities to navigate an obstacle course, or who can make a decent potluck dish, but I’d love to be able to have time to talk about our work together.

    9. Nynaeve*

      We had a great exercise at our most recent staff retreat that involved a series of sample “cases” where a fictional student was having difficulty with various phases of her library research. Each case had questions that a different library department should be able to answer. We then split up into teams consisting of people from different departments and discussed how we would resolve the various issues and then came back and summarized everything as a large group.

      I think this was more useful than any other “team building” activity we had done because it was actually organic to our work, let us learn about the different expertise other departments brought to the table, and was geared to resolving actual problems that students may face. It felt less forced and fake than other activities and actually had a useful impact.

      1. LawCat*

        “It felt less forced and fake than other activities and actually had a useful impact.”

        That does sound useful. I guess all the “team building” things I have had to participate in were the forced and fake type that didn’t seem connected to our work.

    10. Kit*

      When I was eleven my stepmom went on a leadership retreat and when she got back she had me and my brothers do the team building games she’d learned. They are pretty fun when you are eleven and can tell your team members that they are ugly buttfaces.

  58. Jinx*

    How do you determine market rate for your position? I’ve been trying to research what my role makes in my area, but it seems like the postings are all over the place, salary wise, and aren’t always an exact match for what I do. I found Glassdoor’s “average” stats, but I don’t know where it’s drawing them from. Is that an acceptable resource?

    The reason for this question: I’m doing really well in my current position, getting great reviews, but I don’t think my starting salary reflects my value anymore. The problem is, I’m having trouble coming up with arguments to support that since I’m not able to figure out what’s “normal” for my role.

    As a secondary question, how can I deal with the guilt for wanting a raise when I make a “good” salary already? I make enough to support myself, I just don’t feel its up to par with my performance and my field. I just don’t know how accurate the internet is, and then I start beating myself up for not appreciating what I have… I would enjoy having more money, but I don’t *need* it, so asking for it makes me feel squicky.

    1. T3k*

      Is there a professional’s group site related to what you do? For instance, I’m in the creative field, so I use one I found through a creative agency but I double check with Career One Stop’s salary finder as well. If both line up around the same salary, then that’s usually enough to let me know what range to look for in an area. Only bad thing is, Career One Stop doesn’t let you put in years of experience, so it just gives you a flat “low, average, high” for a city.

    2. Debbie*

      Check the BLS. It’s free, and can be a good determinant. Don’t use glassdoor or salary.com – they can be very biased, and highly inaccurate.

      -compensation analyst.

      1. Jinx*

        Maybe I just need to spend more time on it, but I’m not sure how to use that site. I’m in IT, and a broad field labeled “Computers” doesn’t really help me much because there’s such a wide range. How would you recommend searching the site?

  59. UK vs US*

    Regarding the advice given on this site (or job-seeking advice in general): how much difference is there between the UK and US? For example, reading the archives there’s a lot of emphasis given to writing a timely thank-you note following an interview, but there was also a post where someone asked whether thank-you notes were common in the UK and the consensus seemed to be that it would be an unusual thing to do.

    I’m guessing this is something of a cultural thing? Or would it be industry-specific? Or something else? Any general things to keep in mind when reading advice aimed at a US audience when dealing with a UK job market?

    2. Carrie in Scotland*

      CV’s and resumes are different. A CV is a (usually) 2 page document that highlights your jobs, skills etc. The advice about objectives and references (as in not having them!) remains the same.

      I don’t think ‘thank you’ letters are a thing at all here.

      Unless your job has a probation period, it’s realllllllly difficult to fire people.

      Standard notice for leaving jobs is 4 weeks but your contract will tell you what’s expected of you. None of this 2 weeks/fear of people walked out the office immediately stuff. And oh yeah, we have contracts for everything. I’ve worked in bars, retail and offices and I’ve always had a contract.

      You get maternity/paternity pay/sick pay. Our standard is 1 year maternity leave, although some of it is at 100% of your wage and then it decreases the further into the leave you go, leaving you with the statutory mat pay (from the govt) but again, your contract will tell you.

      Lunch breaks are unpaid but you are expected to use them. There’s also not exempt/unexempt here – doesn’t exist.

      Erm….can’t think of anymore but maybe commenters LazyB, Ruth, Merry and Bright and Apollo will chime in with what I’ve missed.

        1. Carrie in Scotland*

          If I was on a 30 hour contract and worked 35, it would be paid overtime usually but I’ve known people have TOIL (time off in lieu) or just take back hours. It depends. In my last job, my co-worker would sometimes have to work over her 35 hrs but she’d just take a longer lunch/a half day back (it was a university) but I’ve got friends in retail who take time back or paid overtime. There’s probably some sort of literature about that…

          2. hermit crab*

            Do people really call it TOIL? That seems like such a wonderfully appropriate acronym!

            1. Cristina in England*

              I had a wonderful boss who would always pronounce it as the word “toil”, but a lot of people call it “days in lieu” or something similar.

        2. FatBigot*

          In the UK:
          Cover Letters: Yes
          Thank you notes: No.
          Contract of employment: This is a legal right.
          Overtime: As per contract, but must pay at least minimum wage overall.
          Unions: Generally weaker in the UK. However I strongly advise membership; I have seen someone badly treated because they did not access advice the union would have given had they been a member. As a union workplace representative you have certain legal protections. Strict requirements for secret ballots before industrial action. Strict limits on picketing.
          Firing people: You can get rid of whoever you like; its a question of how much it will cost the employer. Discrimination against a protected characteristic will get expensive. Cannot bring a claim for unfair dismissal for first 2 years of employment.
          Leave: typically 20 days +10 days statutory holidays (e.g. Christmas).
          Working hours: restricted by the European Working Time Directive.
          Health insurance: Not needed due to our very wonderful National Health Service.
          Sick leave: Entirely separate from holiday, and normally generous, but the employer has the right to demand a note from the doctor after 3 days. Expect management action if taking many short instance of sick leave.

          1. Tau*

            Note on sick leave: there’s a government mandated minimum that has to be paid (after 1 day up to 12 weeks or something like that) which is… not much. Companies can top this up to your normal wage and I get the impression most do, but they’re under no obligation to and some get stingy. I was out for two weeks for surgery a few months into my job and I got the government minimum.

            Also, it’s 8 days statutory holidays – at least in England – isn’t it?

            1. Carrie in Scotland*

              @ Tau, looking the gov website does say 8 but the 1st Jan isn’t counted as a bank holiday when it falls on a weekend. Same with Christmas. So assuming you work somewhere that’s M-F, you technically get the 10 days. At least, that’s what I’m thinking…

              That said, not every org gives you Good Friday/Easter Monday off (I’ve been in either/or but never both) and my last job gave you local holidays off as long as they weren’t in term time and you weren’t an essential person. But in the 8 years I worked previously, I never got local holidays off!

              1. Cristina in England*

                Just a note on local holidays, as I had never heard of this before moving to Glasgow. In Glasgow there is a fortnight (in July?) which is traditionally when industrial workers would take a holiday and one of my former offices was on skeleton staff for a Friday/Monday during that time. Also, there is September Weekend, which I think is Glasgow only. I totally defer to Carrie in Scotland as I haven’t worked in Scotland for 4 years, but the main point is that there are city-specific holidays in Scotland. Also, Jan 2 is a holiday in Scotland but not England, don’t know if that explains part of the discrepancy between 8 and 10 days.

    3. Cristina in England*

      I have found that American cover letters are much more emotional than they are here. In the UK, American style cover letters can seem inappropriately informal and boastful (even without the salesy stuff you sometimes see).
      I wrote a cover letter for an American employer recently, and my Brit husband was shocked—shocked!— that I said “I would love to contribute my skills doing X” and “I was excited to learn of this opportunity” and other things that basically were more than “I believe I might be of some use” (an exaggeration, but only slightly).
      I would love to hear other UKers chime in on this. Maybe we can compare snippets from past cover letters? (I will see if I can find any when I can get to my laptop)

      1. Carrie in Scotland*

        (sorry christina I missed you on my list!! :( )

        Interesting about the cover letter – I’ve definitely used some of Alison’s language since reading AAM.

        My cover letter talks about my previous two/three jobs and ends with: I enjoy learning new skills, adapting old ones and broadening my knowledge. I am lucky in that all of my previous jobs have provided me with this and believe that in applying for the post of __ within the __ will allow me to continue to extend my knowledge, as well as being able to use what I’ve already learned from my other roles, and be a part of the friendly and busy team within the __.

        1. Cristina in England*

          That’s ok, I am not very active on Fridays normally. :-)

          Ok I found these, which are both from the same point in the letter, the end of the first paragraph.

          This is from a US cover letter: “I believe that my experience in digital spouts and my background in teapot design and administration would make me a great asset to the Teapots Inc. team.”

          And the UK: “I believe that my broad tea-drinking background, my familiarity with chocolate, and my meticulous attention to detail make me a good candidate for this role.”

          The rest of the letters are quite different too, but I chose these because they are almost the same sentence, one is just toned down for the UK job.

          1. JaneB*

            Early in my career I worked in Canada for a couple of years (fixed term contract), and was applying for jobs in the UK. My Canadian boss was determined to help me ‘fix’ my cover letter… I had quite a job convincing him that his revisions were totally over the top and I needed to tone it down a bit for the UK market. Though I think the mid-point between his north American superlatives and my British and female/cultural tendency to underplaying resulted in a stronger cover letter overall!

            As someone who now gets involved in hiring (in academia, for a range of roles) in the UK, AAMs advice about SHOWING rather than stating your strengths in cover letters etc. is probably even more important here – and in fact don’t even say ‘I demonstrated how excellent I am at chocolate pouring by pouring three times as many teapots in one shift as anyone else’ (better worded of course) – state the fact, (averaging 30 teapots per shift in a system where 10 was the performance standard) and allow the reader to work out for themselves how excellent that makes you! I instinctively want to avoid people who think they are great and feel the need to tell me that in so many words, however hard I try to overcome this bias, since the Dunning-Kruger effect seems particularly common in academe…

    4. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      American living/working in London and currently looking for a job (again). I do a cover letter for each job, but they range from my more “generic” one with a few unique tweaks, to something more customized (I wrote a doozy for a specific job that wanted to see your personality – got a few remarks on it! :)). The cover letters I have seen mentioned in career development sites are only a few lines long, which was fairly surprising. And this seemed to be fairly universal advice!

      CVs I have seen to be accepted to be longer than the two page max in the US, so I keep a longer version that highlights some of my more specific relationships to this market (going much further back than my current job). One guy we hired for my team had 2 pages front and back crammed full in 10 pt type – it was horrible. Even worse was the fact that some recruitment agency actually told him that was ok (and this for a 6 figure job)

      Thank you letters would be considered odd and possibly paint you in a bad light as being out of touch. I haven’t seen any and we have hired quite a bit.

      One thing that to me seems significantly different is the role of recruiters. Maybe its just my industry (consulting) but you cant get traction to the good jobs unless you are in with them and they can range from downright jerks to people at least willing to listen. There can also be a lot of “checking the box” here – and some people really really want to see Oxbridge or similar on a resume even though that doesn’t guarantee a whole lot.

      I would say for the most part the bulk of this advice is pretty spot on for dealing with coworkers annoying habits, weird HR policies, politics, etc, it just needs to maybe be adjusted slightly taking cultural differences into account.

    5. Cristina in England*

      This has been discussed extensively before in the comments, but one of the biggest cultural differences for me is time off. In the UK you’re expected to at least want to use your time off/vacation days, and your commitment to your role is not questioned for doing so. In some high pressure jobs it can be difficult to get time off, as in the US, but in my experience in the public and private sectors here it is normal to take a week or two off during slower times, in addition to Christmastime.

      Also, paid carer’s leave to look after unwell family members and paid maternity leave. Hiring for a 9-12 month maternity cover is common and you see this in the titles of job ads often.

  60. Bored*

    I have had nothing to do all week at work and it is driving me insane. The whole team is in a lull period. All my co-workers are on social media all day or taking long lunches or ducking out early. But I am new here and haven’t had a chance to prove I have a work ethic yet.

    My manager told me not to worry about it, that we will be busy soon, and that he’d keep an eye out for minor tasks I can help with. I make sure to volunteer to help if I see something that needs doing – but I am so new that in some cases I’d be a hindrance. I am spending all my time on professional deployment and upgrading my skills, but it is totally foreign to me to be at work and not producing anything tangible. It is really doing a number on my self worth.

    Any suggestions on how to feel more OK about this?

    1. Laura*

      This happens in a lot more jobs than you think. Just enjoy the time you have for personal development, and be grateful that your team gets to have this lull!

    2. Dawn*

      OH man I feel this one! The job that I have now is very up and down with how busy I am- some days I’m at an all-day conference and that plus travel time equals a 10 hour day. Other days there’s nothing pressing and I’m reading AAM or hanging out in the open thread :)

      Just focus on the fact that your manager knows that it’s a lull, is OK with it being a lull, knows that you want more to do, and has specifically said that it’ll get busy soon. Focus on ENJOYING the lull as much as you can! I promise there will be a time soon when you’ll look back on it and go “man, it was so nice to not be so busy!”

      1. Bored*

        Thanks – I guess I feel sort of dirty because this job was a HUGE pay bump for me and I feel like I am doing nothing to earn such a high salary. In previous jobs I worked my rear off for very low pay. I guess the ebb and flow is something I will need to get used to.

    3. Van Wilder*

      This happens at my job too. But I’d trust your boss when he says you’ll be busy soon. A lot of times when new people start here, they’re bored. But months later they’re longing for the days when they had nothing to do.

    4. anonnymoose*

      No suggestions, but I’m in the same boat. Look for a new job, actually, because this “having nothing to do and feeling awful about it even though my boss seems to think I’m doing great” is crushing me.

    5. Liza*

      Bored, you said “I am so new that in some cases I’d be a hindrance,” but I suggest you look at it differently: it sounds like now is the perfect time for that! The whole team is in a lull period, so if you make a task take longer you’re not really causing any problems, and you’ll know how to do it (whatever it is) when work picks back up again.

  61. anon for this*

    I am about to lose it regarding a Senior Teapot Project Manager on my team. He is not anyone’s actual boss, but he acts like he’s a manager. His job as a STPM is to be the liaison between the sales field and Teapot Project Managers. We have a Teapot Team Lead who is the direct manager of all TPM and STPMs.

    This one STPM really wants to get into management one day and worse than that, he’s the type of person who is not only micromanaging (he really hates to give up his projects and when he assigns one out he has to look over the shoulder of the TPM doing the work even if they’ve done it millions of times before) but he’s the type that tries to mentor and praise even when it’s not wanted. He’s routinely says things like “my Teapot Managers need a reply on this” before the TPMs even have the chance to speak up for themselves and do their job (the possessive language is really grating because he is NOT MY MANAGER).

    He’s gotten in trouble for this a lot and whenever he does, he backs off for a few weeks before getting right back into the same pattern. Whenever out Teapot Team Lead or the Senior Teapot Team Lead have told him that he’s not anyone’s manager, that he needs to back off and let TPMs do their jobs, and that he needs to just back off in general that it’s management “grooming him for management”. It’s a bit delusional. None of the TPMs want to work with him at this point, and it’s just really frustrating that everyone has to constantly deal with this and actual management won’t do more than slap him on the hand.

    1. Van Wilder*

      Ugh that’s so obnoxious. I’m sorry. I’m sure AAM would have some choice advice for his manager but I don’t know what you can do except for keep bringing it up, as a group. But ugh, I feel you.

  62. TGIF*

    I have an interview coming up with the historic society of my home-city. I’m super excited for this position and of course want to make a good impression. It was stated in the posting that they want someone with enthusiasm for the city in this role, so I want to mention all the ways I’m connected to the city: family’s heavy involvement with local university, working with a community theater, summer camps at the park, graduations at the historic church, all that good stuff.

    Here’s the one thing I’m not sure I should mention: my mother works for the county government. Not the city government but the county, but the office is in that city (we’d be a few blocks from each other if I got the job) and obviously they handle lots of legislation that effects the historic society. There’s never been any direct conflict between the two, my mother says she very rarely hears the historic society come up at her work, and she has no problem with me mentioning it, even encouraged it, but all my friends have hesitated. No solid reasons against, just voicing concerns like ‘Are you sure about that? I don’t know if I’d mention that’.

    It’s not something I think needs to be hidden from the historic society for my entire career if I got the job but now I’m not sure I should make it a highlight of my connections to the city. What do you guys think?

    1. overeducated*

      I wouldn’t mention it. I think your highlights need to be about you, the connections you’ve made and maintained, and not your family’s history or employment. It’s not something to hide, I just don’t think it’s relevant. Good luck!

    2. katamia*

      Don’t highlight it, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with mentioning it if it somehow naturally comes up in the interview (unlikely, but I had an interview once where we spent several minutes talking about how great Battlestar Galactica was, so not impossible).

      1. JustKeepSwimming*

        I had an interview where they asked me what the last book I read was which lead to a very long book discussion. I did get the job, though in hindsight, I probably should not have admitted to it being a book about serial killers…

        1. katamia*

          Hah! I had an interview like that when I was applying to work at a bookstore once. Didn’t get that job, but I was offered the Battlestar Galactica one, although I turned that one down because I had some concerns about the organization.

      2. SL #2*

        One of my interviews ended up with me and one of the panel interviewers excitedly talking about our shared alma mater. And then The West Wing came up. I got the job and the running joke was that clearly it was because I had the “right answer” to the who’s your favorite character question.

          1. SL #2*

            My answer was Donna, but although the answers on my team vary across the board (all our #1s are different!), she was on several Top 3 lists so she still counted as “the right answer.” ;)

              1. all aboard the anon train*

                IKR? CJ is my favorite, followed closely by a two way tie between Donna and Charlie.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Depending on how much scrutiny your state does, you may want to reveal your connection to your mother and her job as part of the interview. Or your mom may want to let her boss know if you get the job. In my state it’s a big deal if you do not say these things upfront. My town lets the county handle zoning, code enforcement, and a number of other things that can be of serious interest to a historical group. A lot would depend upon which department your mother works in, also.
      If you mention it at the start then it’s less of a deal. I strongly encourage you to let them know now. It should not be a problem, though.

  63. Read requests*

    How do you feel about people who use the ‘request a read receipt’ feature on their emails (generally you tick a box to confirm to the sender that you’ve opened the email)? You have the option to not tick it, but most of the time I get such a request it’s always for non-time-sensitive things. It feels like the sender is trying to gauge how much priority I’m putting on them or something. I guess it could be useful if you’re sending out something like safety warnings and want to make sure everyone knows to watch out for something, but otherwise…ugh.

    1. Always Anon*

      I have a couple different people in my office who put a read receipt on every single email they send. I asked them both to stop, only one of them did. So I always decline to notify the other person that I’ve read the email. Mind you I do this on principle because they do this for every single email, regardless of it’s importance.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I find them annoying. Whenever I used to get those (when using Outlook/Exchange), I would never return the receipt. I would just reply if it warranted a reply.

      1. Sadsack*

        I have Outlook and have never noticed these requests. I think they are just notified automatically where I work.

      2. Lady Bug*

        There is also an option to never send read receipts. Its usually the first thing I set up on my email.

    3. Liana*

      We have someone in my office who does that – I roll my eyes at it, but I usually just tick it off and move on. I totally get why it’s annoying though – I feel like she’s basically checking up on people, when she’s not a manager and it’s not her job to do that.

    4. Aella*

      I used to do that when I was annoyed with the recipient, and I wanted confirmation that they’d actually read it, vs. been away and hadn’t had a chance, so I knew how I should react when I was asked why X didn’t have Y information.

    5. The Alias Gloria Is Living Under, A.A., B.S.*

      I find them annoying. Some emails I send out to clients have it automatically set to request it, and I can’t turn it off. I love it when people have it set up and they’re the 12th person to hit reply all on a company wide email. I happily return those so their inbox can be flooded.

    6. Jascha*

      I generally decline to send one because I do have to stratify my inbox and don’t want anyone trying to use the delay-to-response as some sort of metric for where they fall in the priority rankings. I’d never use them myself.

      That said, I understand where people are coming from with them; they can be useful for keeping track of message status. If I’m in a position where I know I’m able to respond fairly rapidly, I usually just click “yes” and send the read receipt.

    7. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

      I HATE it. I have used it sparingly (to send to overseas vendors who sometimes don’t actually receive my emails for whatever reason, and when emailing vendor compliance manuals to all suppliers), but if it’s every single email it drives me nuts and I refuse to confirm that I’ve read it.

    8. LQ*

      I think there are 2 people in my office who do this. I’m not sure if there is a correlation or causation or coincidence, but neither of them are very competent. That said I’ve just told Outlook to never send that read receipt.

    9. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Haha, our CEO did this for a while! I think he must have had that option accidentally selected because I can’t imagine that he really wanted read receipts from EVERY employee at the corporate office? He (or his admin) must have fixed it because it stopped after a couple of months.

    10. Jen RO*

      I think my boss has his Outlook set up to request a read receipt for all his emails… but I honestly have no idea because I turned off read receipts in *my* Outlook on day 1.

    11. Crystal Vu*

      I understand the annoyance at being checked upon, but I just shrug. I read all my emails so I’m not sure what the one other person’s motivation in obtaining the receipts is.

  64. such anon, very mous*

    This is not something I would ever seriously do, just venting some frustration.

    My boss, while great at being a mentor and knowledgeable about the field, likes to be very vocal about his political beliefs. Which boil down to “anyone who isn’t a straight white man who owns guns is wrong and there is no nuance.” But even if I agreed with his politics listening to every conversation he has devolve into loudly talking about how others are wrong has just never been my jam.

    So on the days when he’s really going off and I’m really feeling like I need a new job I just wish I could tape one of his rants and send it to potential employers with the my resume and a little note that says “I’m competent and just can’t handle listening to this anymore.”

  65. Chocolate Teapot Sales + Service*

    I just got a job with a brand new company. The parent company has been designing chocolate teapots for 50+ years but this subsidiary where I’ll be working is the parent company’s first foray into chocolate teapot sales and service. I am a middle manager on a ~15 person team, and there’s still about 6 months of work before our branch is open to the public. I’m *really* excited to be a part of this from the beginning, and I want to do everything I can to make this a great place to work.

    If you’ve gotten in on the ground floor like this, how did you shape the company culture/values/whatever? What would you do differently?

  66. Liana*

    I’m kind of hitting a breaking point with my current full-time job. Quick backstory: I work as an admin in a hospital and support three different doctors. I also have a part-time job at a grocery store, which helps me pay off my loans more quickly and gives me some extra spending money (and I get a discount on food, which is nice). I like my part time job a lot – the work is super easy, it’s a 10 minute walk from my apartment, the pay is good, and I like my coworkers. As for my full-time job … I’ve been there for 14 months now, and I just don’t like it. I don’t have any patient interaction, so everything I do is purely administrative – making travel arrangements, editing various pieces of writing, scheduling meetings, etc, and I am just So. Bored. I don’t feel like I do anything meaningful, but I’ve only been there for just over a year, so I feel like it’s too soon to leave. And one of my doctors is becoming increasingly difficult to deal with – whenever he’s in a bad mood about anything, he takes it out on me, then apologizes later. And I get that sometimes people lash out when they’re in a bad place, but I’m tired of the constant cycle it’s become with him.

    I don’t know what to do anymore – I’ve considered quitting Office Job to work at the grocery store full-time, because I know they could use it, but Office Job pays really well and could never get that money working as a generic retail employee. But Office Job is not what I want for a career, and I’m having a hard time motivating myself to even stick it out for another year, and this whole experience is making me reconsider whether I even want an office job at all, or whether I’d be happier seeking out a career that doesn’t involve that particular environment. I’ve toyed with the idea of teaching English abroad, and I’m still considering it, but basically I’m just having this whole existential crisis about What I Want Out of Life and what kind of work I can see myself doing for the next several decades. Has anyone else been through this? How did you handle it?

    1. Chocolate Teapot*

      This kind of situation is where having a career coach can be helpful. Whilst a coach can be expensive, I found it useful to have somebody who could guide me into a more specific role. Working with my coach, we made a plan with a target date by which I would be in a new job more suited to my skills and abilities. Even if a coach isn’t an option, there are various online resources to help pinpoint a career which might be a start.

    2. neverjaunty*

      You’ve been at the office for over a year – unless you have a history of job-hopping, it makes sense to really figure out what you want to do for the next couple of years (not just existential daydreaming) and then move on. I promise you that Dr. Douchebag is not going to mend his ways.

    3. Undine*

      Office jobs are all over the place — just because you don’t like this one doesn’t mean you can’t find one you like. You’ve learned that you want a job with customer interaction, and where you’ll be treated with respect. That’s great info to take into your job search.

  67. super anon*

    i learned this week that after my (year long) probation i can be fired at any time for any reason. my management group has absolutely no job protection, but the difference is that after probation i can get 1 month of severance. learning this has surprisingly been cathartic – i have been absolutely miserable at my job for a variety of reasons and was terrified to speak up in case i got fired before my probation ended. but now – it doesn’t matter! i’ve made the decision to email my bosses and tell them about the racist and discriminatory behaviour i’ve been receiving from one coworker in particular and to ask if we can have a meeting about it. she’s told me more than once to apply for other jobs, and i want to know if they plan on letting me go/ have been unhappy with my performance, etc. i’m scared to do this.. but after reading AAM’s post on speaking up if you’re unhappy, i feel like it’s my best bet. my managers aren’t even on site and i’ve never met with them once in the 10 months i’ve worked here… so they likely have no idea how i’m feeling.

    this coworker gives us the impression that she’s backed by ours bosses (so there’s no point in ever complaining against her, because she holds all the power in the office) so i’m scared they won’t believe me when i talk to them and i don’t have any documented proof because she is too smart to every put anything in an email. but, i still think it’s worth it. i also think my bosses need to know that my coworkers are still basing their hiring decisions on race, rather than capability, after they’d been told to stop.

    wish me luck aam peeps. i’ve decided if i do get fired it’s fine, because if i get fired for talking to my bosses about actual workplace problems i’m having & behaviour that could open the org up to litigation if people found out, then those aren’t bosses i would want to be working for anyway.

    2. Soupspoon McGee*

      If you’re in the US, Evil HR Lady has some great advice on this, including emailing your HR department with your complaints. The subject line should be “Formal complaint of harassment.”

  68. bearing*

    So, making this sort of work-related in that it occasionally happens that a Mystery Poop Smearer leaves their “marks” in workplace bathrooms, and discussion often turns to “what on earth causes people to do this?”

    I had a poop-smearing event at my own house this week!

    (And it’s a tiny bit work-related, if you count barter as work.)

    I tutor some of my friends’ kids in my house as part of an informal bartering arrangement.

    One of my friends’ teenage sons has a couple of medication-controlled psychiatric disorders. Yesterday, by process of elimination, we determined that this young man was the likely culprit who left feces smeared and spattered all over the seat, outer toilet bowl, and floor in the bathroom off my master bedroom (plus a giant pile in the toilet itself, and wads of TP everywhere). I didn’t discover it till after their family had left the house.

    So, because this is the work-related thread, I just want to mention that I actually know a little bit about what is going on here with this young man (and yes, he is old enough to know how to correctly use a toilet). His parents are struggling right now with his medication and he’s having a really tough time. He’s never done this before in my house. I always thought that when people reported workspace poop-smearers, what was going on was a disgruntled employee who wanted to punish his/her coworkers in some way. But having had this happen, I am now inclined to wonder if mental illness might be a factor.

    Trying to decide whether to let the event slide, except now I am going to lock my bedroom door when they come over for tutoring, or whether I should mention it to my friend.

    1. Laura*

      I would mention it. I think your friend would want to know, and he/she might need to mention it to the young man’s doctor– it could be relevant to his medical treatment.

      1. anonnymoose*

        Definitely mention it and make sure to express that you’re not mad or anything, just wanted to convey the info & some concern/sympathy.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Your friend probably already knows. If I recall correctly there is even a name for this habit- it has a diagnosis.

      Tell your friend and ask her how you should handle it. Part of the solution maybe that your friend tours the bathroom before taking her child home. The technique I have seen in these cases usually involves the adults calmly telling the person that they need to clean it up. The key part is for everyone to remain calm and matter-of-fact. I think this is because the upset of others is rewarding in some manner for the individual that does this.

  69. Jennifer*

    I had jury duty for three days this week, which was delightful and I was sorry to have it end early.

    I do, however, have other news: I am finally getting a transfer within my office into the group I wanted to work in and didn’t get hired in! It sort of starts in July (or at least I switch supervisors and move desks then) but they won’t 100% transfer me out of this job until “sometime in September.” Some aspects of my job are following me over, but they are going to get me out of doing front counter and phones one way or another. (Again, “sometime in September.”) Even though they will be down to a whopping four people in public service and they STILL don’t plan on hiring anyone else or making any changes, which is ridiculous. There’s going to be a lot of job shuffling in half the office within the next year.

    (No idea on compensation or not: I’m assuming I will not get more money whatsoever, but they are going to have to rewrite my job description, so who knows. Maybe I’ll get lucky and get reclassed high enough to get a tiny raise?)

    Anyway, even though my certain start date of September 1 got vagued up, there is hopefully an end to my serving and smiling! Hooray!!!!

    1. anonnymoose*

      Congrats on the job shift!

      Just rambling about jury duty: I had jury duty for over 2 weeks three years ago. My work paid me for the first 10 days. Unfortunately I still had to return to the office on days that court ended early (before noon). There were more than a few days that I decided court had lasted all day because I was too emotionally and mentally exhausted to deal with work after court. The case was very sad, fortunately ended with the defendant getting life in jail and another sentence on top from a separate trial that hinged on this one’s evidence. I did not get to be on the deciding jury panel and had to spend the last two days during deliberation with a few other “standby” people, reading and generally being bored. Honestly, that was the worst part of the process. I really would have liked to have been part of the decision (though ultimately I agreed anyway).

      It’s been long enough that I can serve again and I’m kind of hoping I get called just for the break from work.

  70. Sally Sparrow*

    Currently I’m a temp, but the VP of my department has said they are offering me a full-time position (just waiting to hear from HR). Should I approach salary/benefit negotiation differently than I would if I weren’t already a temp? Or will it not be that different of a beast that AAM’s negotiation advice is still pretty solid? Also any other tips or advice is greatly appreciated.

    1. Laura*

      I don’t think you should approach it any differently. You still have every right to negotiate, but the conversation might be slightly more casual because you’ve already been working with those people.

    2. Joanna*

      Do a bit of research on how temp wages are calculated (for example if they are a certain percentage higher than full time wages to make up for a lack of paid leave) so that you have some sense of what might be reasonable under the new arrangement.

  71. Nervous Accountant*

    Just one more weekend left.. one last weekend… and the madness will be over.

    Ther’es never a dull moment here, for sure. I just wanted to post here.

    2. Anon Accountant*

      If we get 1 more call “hey are my taxes done? I dropped those off Wednesday/Thursday!” then someone here is going to snap. Or the “Hey I don’t want an extension!”. My coworker started extensions a few days ago so they are already on extension. :)

    3. Nervous Accountant*

      Do you guys get people wanting to talk about their CURRENT tax situation (that has nothing to do with their 2015 tax return)????

      1. Anon Accountant*

        Yes. They look a little “put off” when we say “how about we talk after Monday” or let’s talk more in May (after payroll quarterlies are done). So we’ve used the wording “you know, let’s see how your 1st 4 months have went and we have a more clear picture”.

  72. RVA Cat*

    This summer marks 5 years in my current job. I like my manager and the job, but I need to find a way to grow in this position so I don’t stagnate. I don’t want to move on any time soon, esp. since the work/life balance is excellent and that’s very important to me right now (married mother of a 2 year old, trying for a 2nd child). But there isn’t a lot of promotion potential. It’s in bank operations and there are a lot of “lifers” here, but that’s not me – at the same time, I don’t think I want to manage people. But I do want to grow into more individual-contributor roles. I’m no techie but I am the go-to person for my team for all computer issues. I took a few programming courses years ago and am trying to learn VBA to improve the macros I’ve already worked up to automate a lot of our more time-consuming Excel spreadsheets. Your thoughts?

    1. Undine*

      Can you talk to your manager about this? “I’d like to grow into more individual-contributor roles. Is there any way we can build on the programming courses I’ve taken so I can do more work along the lines of the macros I’ve already worked up to automate a lot of our more time-consuming Excel spreadsheets?”

  73. Bored and waiting*

    I am moving to a new department soon but problem is that at my current job I don’t have anything to do. Literally, I don’t know when the transfer will be or anything. I have asked co-workers to help them, but rarely does it result in work just in them saying OK. I have finished 3 Python, R, and SQL courses, many podcasts and so on. I don’t want to bug my co-workers always for work because I don’t want to be annoying and it rarely produces sustained work load. Worse of all, due to lack of work, my mental health issues have worsen( I suffer from depression so if I am not doing something , it comes back) and I cannot bare to look at anything or come to work. I cannot bear this situation anymore and I do not know what to do.

    1. Sadsack*

      Have you told your manager that you have absolutely nothing to do? Maybe he can suggest something, even if it is cleaning out filing cabinets or something similar.

  74. Lucie*

    Hi everyone,

    I’m a soon-to-be graduate and I’m absolutely terrified as despite applying/interviewing hardcore this semester (to the point that my coursework might’ve suffered, I think I’ve had an interview every week for the past two months) I haven’t managed to secure a full-time position for when I graduate (I used Alison’s guide but I’m not that good/ there’s a lot of competition).

    I live in Dublin, Ireland, where jobs are scarce and rent is through the roof and am about to graduate with a non-technical degree (BA in Economics and Politics), though I am fluent in three languages and did all the internships (one of which full-time, year-long and severely underpaid), volunteering, networking etc…Given that I also get relatively good grades I figured by now I’d have something lined up!! Oh, how last-year me was naïve ;-)

    My goals were either to get a Masters (I got into my dream school Oxford but my parents’ situation changed and we can’t afford it anymore) to get into one of the big ‘graduate programmes’ in banking, law, consulting etc. (I get told at the interview ‘well done for even making it through to this stage, we had so many applications etc etc’ and then fail to be called back afterwards) or to work in the non-profit sector which I would really love especially advocacy/ policy etc. but again, no luck so far.

    Anyways, has anyone had similar experiences? How did you deal with it? What would you recommend? How can I go back to sleeping at night instead of tossing around in my bed and worrying like crazy? Thank you for any insights!!

      1. overeducated*

        Me too :( I graduated last May, really thought I’d have something better by now. I also cry a lot…

    2. T3k*

      It took me almost exactly a year before I got my first (part-time) job out of college (I walked in the Spring, had an internship that summer, so I didn’t officially graduate until Aug.). And what sucked more was they realized they bit off more than they could chew with money and I was laid off 6 months later without any warning. And yep, I cried a lot while unemployed, and cried more after being laid off.

      I really don’t know how I lasted that long. I complained a lot on forums, cried, pestered friends (many were actually in the same boat as me). If you haven’t already, I’d look into temp agencies in your area to see if they can help you out, or find online volunteer work (I wasn’t able to do physical volunteer work due to needing gas to get to the place and I was already strapped for money).

    3. Anxa*

      I graduated 8 years ago and still haven’t found anything long-term.

      I’d be lying if I said it doesn’t affect my sleep anymore (although I have independent sleep issues); it’s very hard to feel like you’ve done everything on your to-do list when “Get a proper job” is still hovering over you.

      That said, I feel better knowing I’m kind of okay. If you had told 22 year old me that I’d be working part-time at 30, I’d have been devastated. But I’m here and it’s not as bad as I thought I’d be. So maybe that future I’m dreading 8 years ahead of me now won’t be so bad.

      My biggest regret is fretting over my unemployment during graduation and shortly after. I’d never had an issue finding jobs or reaching goals before, so it was really unsettling. In my case, it did turn out to be a long-term problem, but I probably made it worse by being so worried. I was shy to apply to jobs after a while, thinking that I was so tainted and ruined, when I should have been more aggressive and less sensitive to rejection.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I have had stuff keep me awake nights. It helps to have several tools for coping with sleeplessness. One tool I have been able to make work in the past is to tell myself that worry is for waking hours only and nothing will be resolved at x o’clock at night. I got to thinking of bed time as time out from “those issues”, a mini break.
      About an hour before bed is a no fly zone for media and food for me. This helps also. I try to keep some light reading on hand and use that to help my mind wind down from the day.

      I am not sure there is a magic bullet to fix the restless sleep/no sleep, but I do believe that making some minor changes in what you are doing will help some what.

    5. Ismis*

      I graduated in Dublin with an IT degree just when the dot com bubble burst. The only IT related jobs I was offered wouldn’t cover my basic rent and bills! I took an admin job and after about a year, started applying again, and maybe 6 months later, found a job in the industry. I know people who graduated (again in Dublin) over the past few years and their experience was similar. It can just take a bit of time to find something that’s a good fit – just take a job to pay the bills in the meantime. Lots of people are in the same boat so try not to stress too much! I know it’s easier said than done.

      If you speak three languages, would you consider going abroad for a bit? Either for a job in line with what you want, or just to take a job in hospitality or something for the summer so you can just enjoy not studying for a bit, but can put it on your CV as “brushing up on your languages skills”?

  75. Heth*

    I’m here to say thanks, I’ve posted a few times for advice about not-so-great last job (with a different name) and interview advice and I’ve been reading for years now. Thanks to everyone here and reading through lots of Alison’s advice I have an offer for a new job and I start on Monday! I’m very excited and nervous! I’ve been unemployed for 5 months and left last job at the brink of a breakdown and on medication to get me through so going back to work worries me a bit but I’m trying to stay positive. It can’t be nearly as crazy as some of the stories on this site and if it is at least I have somewhere to share them!

    1. Jascha*

      Congratulations! My partner had a “dream job” for a horrible company in a horrible (though awesome-looking from the outside) industry and finished up at the end of the contract in exactly your position: medication, semi-breakdown and all. He’s now moved into a different industry and is happy, successful and thriving. The same thing can (and will) happen to you!

      1. Heth*

        Thank you, that does sound very similar, in the last job everyone would always say how lucky I was and how wonderful it must be-they had no idea! I’m glad your partner is happy now, hopefully I will be as well.

  76. Allison*

    Seems like every day I ask myself, “why is my coworker setting up a half hour meeting about something he could easily summarize in an e-mail?” It would be one thing if these meetings were a back and forth, but he just talks at me the whole time and I’m lucky if I can get a word in edgewise. I think he just likes to hear himself talk sometimes. But because he’s older and more experienced I don’t feel comfortable saying “no, there’s no need for a meeting, just shoot me an e-mail when you get a chance.”

    1. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

      I am in the opposite situation! Every day I’m in a mile long email thread where I’m asking myself: “Shouldn’t this just be a meeting?”

      So frustrating. I totally feel your pain because I’ve been in your shoes too.

    2. Sadsack*

      Can you push back by saying you are really busy and asking if he can just send you an email? I’d try it once and see how it goes. Just because he is older and more experienced doesn’t mean your time is less important.

  77. Beancounter in Texas*

    Just need some good wishes.

    What I thought could be a dream job has turned into a ball of anxiety that wakes me up at night. No matter how hard or how smartly I work, I get burned for taking too long. I’ve been set up to fail – little guidance, no training, no orientation to the industry and the expectation that I should be able to keep up on the job as well as someone who has been doing it for years. It seems no matter what I do, it’s wrong or I get chewed out for someone else not getting done while I was doing the very thing my boss told me to finish that very day.

    I’m very sad, because except for when my boss feels the need to micromanage me, the job is good, the colleagues are great (except they’re also terrified to make mistakes) and the perks are fantastic. But now when I find I have made a mistake (from my earlier days before I knew better), I’m terrified to even address it to fix it, because I know that no matter what I do, I’m going to get chewed out again.

    I’ve agreed with our HR guy (small business) to track my time so there’s transparency in what takes me so long on tasks, but honestly, I’m just waiting for the next chew out so I can drop my keys and walk out.

    1. neverjaunty*

      Why wait? The job being great other than micromanagement, being set up to fail, etc etc. is like that old joke: “other than THAT, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

      1. Beancounter in Texas*

        I think because it’s easy to be lulled into complacency when the chewing out has subsided. And I don’t have another job lined up yet.

        I seriously contemplating just not returning at all.

    2. Dot Warner*

      That sucks, and I’m sorry. Honestly, I think you should just drop the mic and get out. I’ve experienced stuff like this before and I really don’t think there’s any way to fix this situation.

      1. Beancounter in Texas*

        I think so too, and I have my husband’s support to do so. I left my keys & credit card in my locked drawer (and the drawer keys are kept in the office). Monday morning will tell.

  78. Stella A*

    Does anyone have tips for finding a conference in your field? I’m looking for a conference or training related to change management or consulting.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I would start by simply googling “change management conference” or “management consulting conference” and see what turns up. Most likely, you’ll find links to the field’s professional organizations, like the Association of Change Management. Those are who are most likely to put on a conference for the field. Note that some conferences are only open to association members, or will have much higher registration fees for non-members.

  79. TheLazyB*

    Aaargh help. Started my new job in spring last year, working at a different office from most of my team. In the next three months the people I speak to most are all leaving, either got promotions and changing teams, or going off on long term leave. My line manager is changing to someone I’m nervous of and who I don’t think likes me :( shall I start looking for internal posts (I’ve been here long enough) or make an opportunity out of it? I think the second but I’m scared!!! I’ll also be the only member of my team in my office. Ways to cope with that also appreciated!
    TIA

    1. Undine*

      Is there anyone among your coworkers that you can approach as a potential mentor, saying it looks like a lot of changes are coming, and you might want to reach out to them for advice even after they’ve transferred?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Manager who may not like you: Have you figured out if you like her? Sometimes people get so focused on “the boss does not like me” that they have not even figured out if they like the boss.
      Hopefully, barest minimum you find a few likable things about her or you find that she does a few things well. Start there and build. Figure out what she likes or finds helpful from you and make sure you are doing those things.
      Just like you want her to give you a fair chance, be sure to give her a fair shot, also. If she blows it then deal with it at that point. If you blow it, then apologize and fix it if it is fixable. Sometimes the best we can do is decide to be fair in our actions and words. And, you know, I have found relief in making this deliberate decision. It’s easy to skate by this point and miss it. Decide that you will be fair with her and you will do your absolute best you can do each day. See where that puts you.

  80. Tiffany*

    I’m curious to know if this is something worth being annoyed over or not. One of my biggest pet peeves is inefficient use of technology and I tend to be really OCD about being organized, so this is driving me crazy. I’ve been with my current company for about 5 weeks (but have known the ED that hired me for 2ish years). We’re a small nonprofit…about 11 staff members. We all use Outlook for our emails but for scheduling we use 1 Google Calendar so that everyone knows our schedules. The Google Calendar is a mess….people color code but there is no organization to it (a certain color doesn’t mean a certain person or anything like that), people don’t put their full schedule on it (for instance, I was trying to schedule a software demo for several people, looked at the calendar, found a time that everyone seemed to be free so confirmed it with the software company only to find out later that one of the people wasn’t even going to be in the office that day…she wasn’t very happy with me and wanted me to reschedule). I use my Outlook Calendar that’s connected to my email to manage my schedule (it’s easy, it syncs to my phone w/o having to add another account, I can add appointment requests right from the email, etc.), and trying to remember to add my appointments to the Google Calendar is annoying and can be time consuming.

    It all seems so inefficient and ridiculous. Would it not just be easier for people to use Outlook Calendar and share all the calendars with each other? That’s how we did it at my last job and it worked really well. I want to suggest this and my general feeling is only 1 person really cares about what calendar we use. I don’t know how they’d react if I made the suggestion and I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes if I’m just being silly. Is this something I just need to deal with or is it worth being annoyed about?

    1. Allison*

      No, that’s a totally normal to be annoyed about that. Technology only works as well as people use it, and I myself get annoyed when my coworkers aren’t detail oriented when using technology that’s supposed to streamline processes. Are you in a position where you can implement or encourage some “best practices,” or work with someone who does have that influence?

      Also, please don’t use OCD as an adjective to describe yourself. It’s a mental disorder, either you have it or you’re just a stickler for things being done a certain way.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think it’s a Google Calendar v. Outlook issue. It sounds as if people just don’t know how to use calendars in general.

      This is the problem right here:
      for scheduling we use 1 Google Calendar so that everyone knows our schedules.

      Google Calendar is meant to be collaborative, same as Outlook. Everyone gets her own calendar, and you can share your calendars with other people or just show free/busy times.

    3. SL #2*

      I’m the exact same way. Within 6 months of me getting hired, I led the implementation of a whole bunch of new tech systems for us and we’re running so much more smoothly now… but I think the difference here is that our leadership really wanted these changes and just didn’t have the time/technical skill to make them. This is one of those things where you really need buy-in from everyone for the new plan to work well. :\

  81. an1ymous*

    so i’ve been at my job since september. the boss who hired me left. my interim manager has been dealing with some personal issues and has been absent 13 of the past 20 days. i feel stagnant. my work is stalled. i’m trying to be a self started and keep learning/finding things to do outside of the box, but it’s difficult.

    i don’t want to start the job search again because i’m worried that it will ruin my resume as it goes something like this, and i’m worried how it might reflect on me if my reason for leaving is a manager change/slight re-org.
    current position – sept to present
    previous position – jan 14 – sept 15
    previous position (promotion from below) – jan 12-jan 14
    previous position – jan 13-jan 14

    i guess this is just a vent/shout out to see if anyone else has gone through something similar and how you dealt with it.

    1. AnotherFed*

      When is the manager position going to be filled permanently? I’d try to stick it out until then and see if things improve – interim/acting managers tend not to have much power (or willingness) to change the status quo since they’re just gap fillers, and sometimes they aren’t really even a good choice for that (as your absent interim manager seems to be). The good news is that they’re interim, and even the longest federal hiring process eventually replaces them! (though once we had to wait 9 months for a new supervisor to get hired).

      For now, is there another senior coworker you can ask for advice? Another group you could help out with some different work that sounds interesting? Another coworker who is similarly new and frustrated, that you could trade ideas with?

      1. an1ymous*

        they are recruiting for it .. but since interim manager has been out so much they can’t interview because it keeps getting pushed out.

        my teammate is newer than me – started in jan. we trade ideas a lot and commiserate. i know she is looking because she is unhappy.

        i have started going to interim manager’s peer(s) because i just can’t have stuff get stalled any longer. i’m also joining a group at work who try to get ideas about ways to learn about other parts of the business.. but some days there is literally nothing to do because everything has been put on hold.

        1. AnotherFed*

          That does sound incredibly frustrating, and it sounds like you’re doing what you can to make sure things keep moving. I think at this point you’ve just got to decide whether you’re willing to stick this place out until there’s a real manager, or whether you try to job search again so soon (but if you do that, be very, very, very careful about your next job, because you’ll want to stay there for a long enough stretch of time to offset the job hopping you’ve done).

  82. ElleBerry*

    I finished submitting my app to grad school a few days ago and I’m so excited. I’m going back for a MS in Analytics. I haven’t decided if I’m going to study full-time or try to work while going to school though. My current job has nothing to do with the field I’m looking to get into, and I’m looking forward to getting out of these dead end jobs pretty soon, but in the mean time I am not sure how I’m going to make it without working. I have bills.lol But I’m determined to make this work!

    Anyway, is anybody else going back to school? If so what are you studying?

  83. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

    I have something good to share and then a question.

    1) I had my APICS CSCP exam this week and I had resigned myself to failing since I was only using the books and no online materials, and I didn’t study well. BUT I PASSED!! I feel great about this and feel like it will give me more credibility since I don’t have a degree.

    2) Am I a cold-hearted jerk? A coworker has been struggling with a sick mother and father for the past 6 years. I empathize with her situation but my boss is unwilling to give her any feedback because she is stressed out. This irritates me because I have my own stress which I leave at home for the most part. I would understand if her family members became suddenly ill, but this has been ongoing. I’m not doing anything to act on this, but I’m just wondering if my thinking is completely flawed and cold-hearted.

    1. Allison*

      Depends, is the lack of feedback leading to sub-par performance, that’s ultimately impacting your work as well? Do you need to correct her work, or pick up her slack? Do you depend on her work to do your job, and if so, is she slowing you down in that regard? Or are you just frustrated because she’s getting away with sub-par work and you’re being held to a higher standard?

      1. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

        I need to correct her work and I do depend on her work and information to do my job accurately. So it’s a little of both – it’s impacting my work and I’m being held to a higher standard because I leave my stress at home.

        I have mentioned stuff to him in the past and shown ways that it’s impacted both his and my work, and he agrees it’s a “big problem” but just doesn’t want to confront her about it.

        1. Allison*

          Well, I’d say it’s not fair to be annoyed because they’re going easy on her right now, but it is fair to be annoyed with how it’s impacting your work, and you should push for them to give her some feedback, even if it’s very gentle. Kudos to you for leaving your stress at home, but remember that even if you were going through the exact same thing, not everyone handles situations like this the same way, nor should they be expected to.

          1. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

            I do understand that not everyone handles things the same way I do – I totally get that. I just wish they would give even gentle feedback, but they seem unwilling to. I would expect and hope that if my stress were ongoing and affecting my work, someone would say something to me. I think it’s just something I’ll have to live with though :/

            1. Not So NewReader*

              FWIW, I am not sure that saying anything is really that helpful to a stressed out person. It usually just gives them one more thing to be stressed out about and things get worse not better.
              My mother was sick and known to be terminal for almost ten years. Likewise my father pretty much dragged himself through the last ten years of his life. These things can be really long and drawn out. My suggestion is to think about asking for a raise based on you ability/willingness to help pick up your coworkers slack. If they are not going to change things, the least they can do is recognize your additional contribution.

              If it’s any comfort I have seen this come up as an ethics issue in management. The general overview is management commits to Additional Thing and never consults the people who are impacted by Additional Thing. Similar to your example, a coworker gets very sick. Management agrees to wait it out and in doing so volunteers other people to take up coworker’s slack. Is this ethical? Some would argue NO, it’s not ethical because it is not fair. The people taking up the slack have no say in the choice to allow sick coworker some slack.

              I have thought about this some and I can only conclude that there is hope if I need some slack it will be granted to me, also. Yes, six years is a long time, I get that part, too. And I am really not sure how you have held on this long because I am not sure if I would have been able to do this.

              Maybe you can suggest to the boss a Plan B of sorts, where they hire a part-timer to pitch in for a while. Since it appears that they are going to keep the status quo, then you might want to start looking at ideas to offer.

  84. Anon Woman*

    So we have a women in the workplace seminar thing this afternoon at my work, by a company dedicated to getting women into the C suite. Which, on the surface, YAY equality and of course this is important. Warmed my cold feminist heart right up to see this on the schedule.

    But! But, there’s a worksheet that we have to do I haven’t completed yet. It’s all about what do I bring to the table and what is my professional statement. They actually ask for three professional statements and I’m stalling out on even coming up with one, which now makes me feel like I am not just failing myself, but I am Failing All Womankind.

    And now my spidey senses are on high alert for this turning out to be a “We have no gender parity at the top because you sad sacks of x chromosomes just don’t LEAN IN!” With no mention of systemic discrimination in hiring decisions and other workplace practices.

    But, am I behind the times for not having at least one recitable professional statement at the ready? My career’s in a weird flux right now so I don’t feel so confident that I know what path to take.

    1. Kelly L.*

      Three professional statements to write about yourself? Yikes, that would send me into cold sweats. I wonder if they’re looking for quotable bits for some sort of publicity campaign.

      1. Anon Woman*

        I think this stays internal. Just heard a rumor that this is going to be run by a man, good lord. I’ll give an update later this afternoon.

    2. Rebecca in Dallas*

      I don’t even know what exactly a “professional statement” is, so…

      Please do update us!

      1. Anon Woman*

        How they are interpreting it is more “I am awesome because I did X thing and got Y result” or “I am awesome because I’m adjective adjective adjective who does noun.” Still working on mine…

  85. katamia*

    I need to kick my freelancing up several notches–I’m not even close to working 40 hours/week and definitely not making enough money. However, I’m really worried about doing so because I have a bad sense of how long things take me. I have a horrible sense of time plus inattentive ADHD and several minor (probably chronic) health conditions that sometimes destroy my ability to work for hours or a day.

    I have ADHD medication that helps, but it doesn’t make the problem go away completely, and it does nothing for the other health issues. I’m just really worried about biting off more than I can (physically) chew. I can do a night or two of Wild Constant Working if my health issues delay me more than expected and still produce a good product, but after that I’m useless for days afterwards.

    Have other people dealt with this? What have you done to manage it?

    1. Undine*

      That’s a hard one. Freelancing is challenging and not having anyone to cover your back is part of it. How long have you been doing it? Can you go over your past performance and get an idea of how much you’ve been able to handle over your busiest time? I was freelance for ten years, and it gave me the flexibility to deal with my own problems, but I went back full time eventually and find it much easier now.

      1. katamia*

        The biggest problem is that I’ll have a good health week, go “Oh, I can do more next week,” and then have a bad health week and wind up in bad shape (the pattern isn’t that regular, but that’s basically how it works). I know I won’t be able to permanently avoid ever having a rough day or week of work because those just happen sometimes, but it feels impossible (not saying it actually is, just that it feels that way) to get a sense of how to balance my need for money with my need for as decent health as I can ever have.

        I also don’t seem to have much mental or physical stamina when I do have too much work. Even one day of overwork can leave me exhausted physically and mentally for days, and because my deadlines are so short right now (normally a 48-hour turnaround time or less depending on the freelance gig), I can’t really adjust my work schedule midstream once I’ve scheduled. In the long run, I know it’ll help to have longer deadlines so I can space the work out more, but that’s probably not going to happen for awhile, and even once it does I’ll probably still need to keep doing some of the short-term work for awhile longer. *sigh*

        I’ve had horrible luck with 9-5-type jobs. The last one I had, I lasted three months, did nothing but sleep for probably a week and a half after I quit because I was in such bad shape even after such a short time, and exacerbated several of my health issues. So while I’m frustrated with the lack of money that comes with freelancing, I’m pretty convinced that, at least for right now, it’s probably my best option.

    2. Betty (the other Betty)*

      Along with the other good advice here, keep in mind that few freelancers have 40 hours of billable time a week.

      I freelance full time and average 20 – 25 billable hours a week. Some weeks I bill 40 or more hours, some 10. When I was starting, some weeks were even lower. It’s an average. The rest of the time is non billable work: invoicing, bookkeeping, marketing, learning.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I have not had experience with free lancing but just from working and running my own house while taking care of inlaws, parents, etc. I picked up a couple things that you might like to consider:

      timing: Anyone who is just starting out will not know how long a task takes. That only comes with experience. And, added wrinkle, there are some tasks that are impossible to estimate because there are too many unforeseens. What to do? Time yourself but target the tasks that you do routinely, don’t worry about the one-of-a-kind tasks, those come later. Start by timing how long it takes you to do something that is recurring. Work on this for a while.
      Then move on to the more complex stuff. Estimate how long it will take to do complex task A. When you are done, look at the time. How far off were you and why? Keep collecting information on this. It can take years and years to figure out. Let yourself take small but consistent steps toward figuring this out.

      Wild Constant Working: This one is a toughie. It took me a while to realize this is a roller coaster. If you do Wild Constant Working you can expect that you will need Wild Constant Sleeping very soon. It just makes sense, we are human beings not machines. We were not built to go like heck indefinitely. Needing rest is normal. You are saying you have health issues so needing rest is normal PLUS it’s critical. I used to push myself on good days and then need several days of rest just to do anything. wth. This did not work for me. I had to learn when to call it a day. I was letting my fear of bad days push me too hard on good days. I did too much on good days- it was almost like panic because I feared the bad days so much. To some degree I set myself up to have a stretch of bad days. Look for ways to get off the roller coaster. If you go high that means you will go too low later. Don’t feed into the highs and your lows may not be as low.

  86. Total Rando*

    I recently got a promotion (that I argued for in October and waited and waited), and my boss came through with back pay at my higher salary since Jan 10th! I’m incredibly grateful, but I wanted to get a sense of whether or not this was standard, or if my boss went above and beyond for me (which is my suspicion).

    If you’ve waited for a promotion that finally came through, did you get back pay at your higher rate?

    1. Johanna*

      Not anywhere that I’ve been. Usually promotions get raises going forward, so I’d say, yes, your boss did a great thing for you.

  87. OwnedByTheCat*

    I QUIT MY JOB TODAY. I have been so anxious about it but my boss took it REALLY well. I feel such a huge weight listed.

    Best part? I’ll have a whole month off in between jobs. I can’t wait to pretty much sleep for 30 days straight.

    1. NN*

      Congratulations! I was just coming here to post the same thing – I was so dreading telling my boss that I quit, but she took it really well! Tried to get me to stay a little longer (& I’ve given 6 weeks notice) but I stood by my end date.

      I’m not having any time off between jobs but a month sounds like heaven! Enjoy!

  88. Charlatan*

    I’m looking for opinions on low-cost technology to replace a laptop/projector combo.

    We currently have one PC laptop using Chromecast which works well and is inexpensive except there is a slight lag between what’s on the laptop and what’s shown on the screen. Someone suggested that Apple TV doesn’t have any lag, but the quick research I’ve done so far indicates there would be no problem with a complete iOS setup but doesn’t talk about a mixed PC/Apple environment.

    Does anyone have any insight into casting in a business setting on a budget?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      You can’t AirPlay from a non-Apple device to AppleTV. I like Chromecast, because it’s cross-platform (you can Chromecast from Windows, Mac, Linux, ChromeOS—as long as you have Chrome installed).

      Honestly, if you want a no-lag solution, it’s not very elegant, but I would just get a very long VGA/HDMI cable.

      1. charlatan*

        You can, but it requires a third-party app. I don’t think it’s worth the trouble but wanted to check out all options before saying so for sure.

        Thanks for the response.

    2. blackcat*

      If you’re using Chromecast, I assume you have a TV there? A TV with an HDMI port?

      If that’s the case, can you just opt for a really long HDMI cable with a set of adapters for the computers you regularly use with it?

      I do this in my house, and it works great.

  89. Anonymous in the South*

    New employee (working approximately 1 month) getting regular new employee flak/pranks, really just normal stuff. Recently, when boss is out or working in another area, a more senior employee is an arse and makes smart remarks to all the other employees. Sometimes he apologizes, sometimes he doesn’t.

    New employee followed a request by more senior employee and when the request could not be completed because what was needed was not available, senior employee says “That was dumb thing to do. You should have done it differently”. New employee followed the request exactly as it was told to him but senior employee is, well, an arse.

    New employee is getting tired of the crap. He comes in & works his shift, is supposed to be off 2 days a week but they have always asked him to work and he always does. His boss has complimented him and told him that he is doing a very good job. New employee hasn’t said anything about the more senior employee, as he thought it was normal new person stuff, but the incident above was his breaking point. The more senior employee barely arrives on time, takes forever to get “ready” to work, talks smack and is often complaining about not getting enough sleep (they work the 4-10 am unloading shift a home improvement store). On Wednesday, he got up in the boss’ face and basically cursed him out. Boss didn’t do anything.

    New employee said he is thinking of going to HR if more senior employee keeps basically harassing him. Should new employee give boss a chance to do something or go to straight to HR? New employee thinks boss will not do anything since senior employee cursed him out and boss did nothing.

    *Note- senior employee has no supervisory powers over the team. He is non-exempt just like the rest of the crew and has never been told/asked to act in a supervisory role if boss is busy/out.

    1. ThursdaysGeek*

      Are you the new employee or a bystander? If you’re a bystander, could you speak up, and tell the senior guy to knock it off? That would go a long way to make the newcomer feel welcomed, too.

      1. Anonymous in the South*

        Bystander. I work in different department and just happened to be walking by and heard the “dumb” comment. I spoke privately with the new employee, offered support and suggested he needs to stand up a bit for himself. I encouraged him to speak with his boss and found out the senior guy cussed out the boss in front of everyone. I had heard there had been an “incident” in that department but did not know the specifics. If boss won’t demand basic respect for himself, I don’t know if he will stand up for the new employee and the new employee said basically the same thing. I think one should always try the “chain of command” first, but again, I don’t know if the boss will actually do anything or if the new employee should go straight to HR. I’m kind of afraid it will get worse for the new guy.

        All the guys that work in that area are young adults. 2 of the 4 are pretty cool, laid-back, hard workers (this includes the new employee). One thinks he’s an exceptional employee (he’s not- attendance issues, a bit of smart-mouth) and then there is the arse senior employee “Jack”. I’m in a position where I see and hear a lot of employee issues (I’m not in HR) and this new employee is a really good worker. I’ve heard lots of positive comments on him. He’s young, this is his first job and he is still learning to navigate the ins & outs of the working world. The senior employee should have been fired multiple times and most definitely when he cursed out his boss in front of everyone, but for some reason, he never gets reprimanded or disciplined. I always wondered if “Jack” was the reason that department has such a high turnover rate, as the job starts well above minimum wage, has plenty of overtime opportunity and is perfect for young adults. With this latest incident, I ‘m sure I’m right. It’s almost as if the old cliche of having “something” on someone is true with “Jack”. I really wish he would get canned. I think that would improve many things in that area.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I’m with you. I think he should let his boss have a shot at it. Some people do not stand up for themselves very well, but they do a good job of standing up for someone else. This could be the case with his boss.

          New Employee can think about HR as Plan B. If I was in new employee’s shoes I would say, “Boss, I have heard that this is what Jack does- he talks down to people, gives them a hard time and so on. Now it is happening to me. What can be done here?” (I have done this myself.)
          Then if boss fails to step up to the plate New Employee can tell the boss that he is thinking of going to HR and wanted the boss to be aware that he feels strongly enough about the situation to go to HR.

      2. Anonymous in the South*

        Also, I have said something to “Jack” in the past when I’ve heard things and I did actually speak with my direct supervisor about it. I think my supervisor said something to the boss’s boss and “Jack” doesn’t speak to me anymore unless I have to speak to him directly.

    2. Rubyrose*

      I’m having trouble with “regular new employee flak/pranks”. In the world I’m in, new employees are off limits for pranks and flak, until they are on board for a while and people get a sense that the employee would be open to that.

      So my sense is that your company culture may be a bit off. And new employee is correct, boss probably won’t do anything, since boss has allowed this behavior for too long. But new employee should givel boss a chance. But new employee needs to make it clear to boss that if the behavior does not stop immediately, HR the next stop. But new employee needs to be prepared to get another job quickly, in case HR also agrees that the behavior is just a part of the culture and not a problem.

      1. Anonymous in the South*

        I don’t know if anyone is checking this anymore but if you are, it’s a bad update. Jack freaked out and went ballistic when the boss spoke to him. He cursed, mocked, taunted and harassed the new employee for over an hour. The supervisor just stood there. I think he was afraid of Jack. I was in the building and was thinking about calling the police because Jack was out of control and his behavior was beyond the pale. New employee finally reaching his breaking point and quit on the spot.

        Since then, the company has refused to speak with him, even the corporate HR office! I feel awful for this kid and tried to speak up for him at a meeting and the supervisor- the one who just stood by- told me I didn’t need to get in his department’s business. I told him that someone needed to because he sure wasn’t tending to business and let a good employee get forced out because he was too afraid of Jack to manage him. It got heated and I told him that I hoped he got fired for not stepping to the plate.

        It’s been chilly since then. I’ll be fine but I feel awful for the new employee. He can’t put this job down now and he doesn’t have any other experience. The managers were told not to answer any questions about the young man if he did put the job down. I am so angry for him that I want to throttle that whole department.

  90. NarrowDoorways*

    I need script advice for a convo with my boss.

    We’re a new team as of the start of the year. We’re trying to get our flow, especially regarding weekly deadlines. Very important deadlines. The kind that are 100% unmovable. We’re a weekly publication, both editors.

    So far, we’d set up this: I check the material first, pass it to her, she gives it back to me so I can input both our corrections, and then I move the material on to production so it can be placed in the spread. There’s always at least one more review round after that.

    But I often don’t get the material until Thursday. This is also unchangeable. In the long run, I give the material to my boss for review anywhere from 5 to 24 hours early. She always swears it’s first on her list, but she’s incredibly busy and is also a lead for 2 other departments. People are constantly interrupting her. I have seen my material in her hand as her primary focus for an entire day where constant interrupts prevented her from finishing.

    One week, I tried to skip her process and bring it right to production. She swore she was stepped out for a half hour meeting, but I could tell it was going to run longer. I knew we’d miss the hard headline if I waited. I had the material placed and then brought it to her for a review when she returned 3 hours later. She was NOT pleased.

    It’s just an odd struggle. She knows she’s the delay. She sees the issues it causes. She’s technically only a proofreader, as I’m the primary editor. There’s still time for her to review after placement, whereas placement is a complicated process that can’t be rushed well.

    Should I stop talking around the issue and flat out say, “There’s a really noticeable pattern of delay week-to-week. The lady in production, who isn’t salary, had to stay late, missing her bus again. I think it would be best if I moved ahead once we hit *** point in the week and circle back to your review. I know we’ve attributed the issues with trying to get out feet under us and learning each others’ rhythm, but it’s not working.”

    1. Jascha*

      Is there the option of asking her for input regarding how she thinks the issue should be addressed, as well as providing yours? That might make her a little more receptive, and in the end, her options are either to offer some kind of suggestion (and who knows? maybe she’ll have some way of moving around the schedules in her other departments, once you’ve baldly stated the issue so that it can’t be overlooked or denied) or to flat-out say, “I don’t have a better idea, but don’t pursue yours,” which she’ll surely have to see is a little ridiculous.

      1. NarrowDoorways*

        It’s true, it’s always a good idea to make your idea look like someone else’s. That’s a good option.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I agree with asking her how to handle it. I’d make sure she knows how it impacts others when you guys are late.
      I also have a question that will show you how unfamiliar I am with your arena. Is there a way you can get ahead on the articles, such that this week she is proofing next week’s material?
      Maybe that is a foolish question….

  91. Denise*

    I am about to take a new manager role. People are fearful of being fired. What should I say if they ask me if they are going to be fired in front of the group? Some of them need to be-but we aren’t going to until cross training takes place. Help!

    1. AnotherFed*

      Explain the general process for firing people – warnings, retrainings, PIPs, etc. What they really want to know is whether they’ll suddenly be fired with no warning it’s coming, but if you have a good, understandable process for terminating people, they’ll be less worried. Also, eventually they’ll give up asking the question about them if you stick to your repeat of your overall discipline process.

    2. Liana*

      Could you say that you will be setting up one-on-one meetings with everyone to discuss any issues related to their job? Only if it’s true, of course, but as a new manager, it could be useful to sit down with each of your reports to get an idea of who they are and what their workload is like. If they need to be let go, you could do it then, but this way they won’t go through the whole “I’m having a meeting with my manager, I must be getting fired” thought process, since everyone is having a meeting with you.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      That is a reasonable fear to have because it happens a lot. People also quit because of a new boss. So first, is to keep these two things in mind as you go along.

      It’s not your job to comfort them. It’s your job to keep them up to date on what is expected from them. They can chose to do it or not. It could be just my experience, but it seemed to me that the ones who asked about being fired, were NOT the people management was watching.

      I totally agree with what others have said here. If someone asks you in front of everyone say something like, “I am glad you asked that, because it’s important that everyone knows _______.” Fill in with what is happening, there will be one-on-ones OR maybe you want to say that your office door is open to anyone who has such a concern and would like to talk.

      If you are faced with that question redirect the person to a private conversation. I like to take a question like that an answer it as if everyone had asked me. So in this example, I would use it to encourage everyone to come talk to me if they have concerns about being fired. (Most of the time the ones who come talk to you will be the ones you can help to keep their jobs.)

  92. Creag an Tuire*

    So, not a personal question, but I saw a resume question on Reddit and wondered what you all thought of it (because nobody deserves career advice from Reddit) — basically the guy got a “First Honours” degree, said as much on his resume, got a request for a transcript from a potential employer, and has now realized that the transcript says his GPA is too low to merit First Honours (but still says he -has- First Honours). Should he just send in the transcript sans explanation or send an explanation of the seeming discrepancy? (Which could be either clerical error or an unexplained waiver of the rule, evidently.)

    Link in subsequent post.

      1. The Alias Gloria Is Living Under, A.A., B.S.*

        So his degree and his transcript say he’s got it, and it’s not until he pulls out a calculator and figures out that he shouldn’t that he realizes it’s wrong? I don’t think HR people are going to go that extra step if the transcript AND the degree both state that. Unless he’s applying for a math or accounting job I’d keep my mouth shut but that’s me. :)

        1. Creag an Tuire*

          Not quite — it sounds like the Transcript says outright that a First Honours requires a 3.7 GPA, and says his GPA is 3.55, but then says he has First Honours. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          1. Nicole J.*

            Surprised they are working this out using GPA, when I was at university (also UK) the classifications were done on a percentage – 70% or over = 1st, 60-70% = 2:1, etc.

            1. JaneB*

              I’m a UK academic – and most departments and university systems have some discretion over award of degree classes. As an example, let’s look at the first class borderline: 70% in our numerical system.

              If you get 69.5% on average or higher, we round up – you got a first.

              If you fall in the ‘borderline’ (67.5% or higher) on average, we then go to ‘balance of modules’ – your mark is made up of the average of marks from 12 modules in second and third year in our system, so if 7 of those were in the first class (a mark of > 69.5) but you also had two in the third class (a mark of 39.5-49.4), which brought down your average into the borderline, we would be able to award you a first class degree overall. This is common because our marking system is a bit wierd at the top – it’s REALLY hard to get more than 75 in a module, especially if the assignments are talks, reports and essays rather than right/wrong answers, even though the whole ‘first’ category of marks runs from 70-100. It’s also designed to reward ‘trajectory’ – a student who started weak and is finishing strong (so maybe had a first year average of 48, second year of 61 and third year of 72, thus ending in the border because of the way the marks are weighted) is seen as more deserving of a first than a student who obtained 67-67-67 over their three years, therefore isn’t showing the same path of development

              If his transcript says he has first class honours, he has first class honours, and he should be confident to claim that! The average being lower just means he’s in the lower end of the first class group (or maybe really messed up a couple of modules en route), but that still puts him in the top group, and he should be happy about that. If he emailed his former tutor, or looked up his university’s exam regulations on line and ploughed through the sections detailing how degree classes are awarded, I’m sure he’d be able to get the details needed to reassure him – but it’s not unusual at all (we graduate 10-15% of students with first class honours, and of those around 50% will have been ‘borderline’ and therefore have an overall weighted mean in the 67.5-69.4 bracket. Doesn’t mean they haven’t fairly and squarely earned their honours!).

              It’s mostly a consequence of imposing numerical mark schemes on top of what was historically a categorical mark scheme, and imposing the same scheme across the whole of university education, so that something with right/wrong numerical marking like say a basic maths course is being compared with something involving judgement like say philosophy, where marking will tend to go by category.

              Some UK Universities are trialling a parallel percentage/GPA/class of degree system at the moment – it may well roll out to the whole sector in a few years time, as a way of making transcripts more portable (it’s tricky to job seek in many non-UK countries in the first few years after your degree, when your results matter, if you come from a system were 71% means A-excellent and are applying in a country where 71% means C-minus! So a GPA system which translates that 71% into something directly comparable with US-type systems (systems where the scale REALLY runs to 100%, in 10% steps) is considered to be something that will help employers and new graduates alike.

    2. Jennifer*

      I think he’s gonna get busted. I think he’d better say, “oops, I thought I had First Honours and then I was mistaken” because someone will call him out.

  93. Gaara*

    I’m trying to leave my small law firm, and I’d love some opinions on how to handle a particular aspect of that!

    I enjoy the work, but while I like my colleagues personally, the firm is poorly managed, and I have concerns about its future and my ability to continue to develop my career here. I don’t want to leave until I have something good lined up.

    But I’m a senior associate eligible to make nonequity partner soon, and now is the time when I’m expected to talk to the partners about why I should make partner (if I don’t, they will notice). Is it ethical for me to do that? And if so, how do I have those conversations, when in the back of my mind I don’t want to work with these people long-term?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      If you feel you have to have the conversation, I guess you could tell yourself that you do not know for a fact when you will be leaving nor how long your job search will be. What if it takes you two years to find a firm you like?

  94. Jascha*

    Update and another question!

    A couple of weeks ago I mentioned two co-workers who were at breaking point with each other. In case anyone’s keeping tabs on that, the situation has semi-resolved itself with the addition of a third person to the team. “John” (team lead) is currently favouring the new employee, so “Jane” (subordinate) is interacting less with him; therefore clashing less and working more independently; and it doesn’t matter so much if she doesn’t work exactly as John demands because there’s a third contributor now. “Jake” (new employee) is positioned in between John and Jane in both seniority and experience, so hopefully the changed dynamic will put an end to the arguing.

    New question: I work on a team of two, myself and my team lead (who also has managerial authority). About six months ago, I requested more training and duties because I felt I was being under-used. I was given a little of both, along with a promotion (in pay and official duties, but not in title). However, since then, very little has changed. I still don’t feel like I’m being used nearly enough. I have lots of time and could be doing much more. What’s more, I want to do more: I want more tasks to fill up the days, more responsibility to get more done, and more opportunities (for instance, to meet clients or travel to conferences). I’ve expressed this before, but don’t feel like it was effective, and my team lead/manager has less time than ever to meet with me (so even our necessary meetings are often delayed or overlooked).

    How can I efficiently express that I CAN do more (and take a load off his shoulders) and that I WANT to do more? I ultimately want to move up through the ranks, but I can’t get there if I can’t get the opportunities to show them what I’m able to handle.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Volunteer for the things you actually know of, such as “Boss, I see you were wanting to do the x report. I can do that, would you like me to take that off your plate?”

      Sometimes we have to go task by task to get the boss to see what is possible. I caught my boss doing y this week. I said “That is my job. I am here to save you time and do things like that for you.” I have a great boss and love her, but once in a while I have to nudge her to leave this or that for me to do.

  95. Beezus*

    I need to figure out how to frame a big-picture conversation with my boss about my complex analytical capacity. I **love** analysis work, I just need to mix it up with other things. I’ve been devoting daily time to working on the same new report for the last two weeks, and the first week was 8-12 hours/day. My brain is melting and I’ll be glad when I don’t have to look at this particular thing anymore. My normal workload is a manageable amount of braining, but when projects come up, he assumes I can do analysis all day if he frees up my time, sometimes for days on end…I can sprint for 8-10 hours for ONE day, especially if I find it interesting, but I really run into a wall after 4-6 hours if it’s multiple days, and stuff I’ve analyzed repeatedly is harder to go into the red line on.

    I struggle with conversations around things I want to stop doing or things that aren’t working well for me – I’m not comfortable with those conversations and they always seem to sound more like “I don’t want to do what you tell me to do” than I intend.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I think what you are describing is pretty normal for most people. We can only stare at something for so long and then we need to look at something else.

      Is there a way that you can pace out your own day so you do not have to do analysis all day?

      There is a concept called incubation time. This is time away from the project and not thinking about the project directly. The secret is that even when we don’t seem to be thinking about that project we actually still are thinking about it subconsciously. Returning to the project we can feel refreshed/recharged.

      If your boss does not have other work for you or he has a hard deadline he may not be able to help you shift things around.
      I think I would try something like, “Boss is there a way we can spread the analysis projects out so that I am working on them for 4 to 5 hours (don’t say six) per day? I have been noticing my patterns and I seem to do my best work in those hours, after that I get totally submerged by the project. I was wondering if I could work on x or y each day to offset the intensity of the analysis work. I think I could get more done and have higher [accuracy/insight/whatever word is appropriate] by doing it this way.”

  96. Justarant*

    I had a big project coming up at work that I was super excited about. A few weeks ago, out of the blue, my manager decides she wants a coworker to do it instead, in theory we are working ‘together’ but the coworker is now in charge. I am far more qualified for this project and had extensive relevant experience. My coworker refuses to discuss anything with me, shuts me out of the project and on the few occasions I’ve tried to make suggestions has got very angry and ignored them. She is literally butchering my project. It is now so unsuccessful that it is unlikely to run again so it’s not like I will get another shot at it. No solution available, just a rant as it is SO frustrating, this was going to be a big step forward career wise for me and not only has it been taken away last minute with no explanation but I have to hang around to watch the coworker destroy all the hard work I put in and knowing I could do a far better job :(

    1. A.J.*

      Just wanted to say you’re definitely not alone in this situation, and I’m sorry you’re going through this– so frustrating.

    2. Soupspoon McGee*

      I wonder if your supervisor wanted to give your coworker a chance to learn and prove herself, and instead, she’s proven herself an idiot. I’m sorry. It’s so frustrating to be in your position.

  97. Naji*

    I was recently unexpectedly offered a 27 month foreign service position with the US State Department. I am very excited as I have wanted a similar position for a long time and have been engaged in a difficult job search since getting laid off last summer. However, the temporary nature of the position gives me some pause since it seems silly to put my significant other in a position to uproot his successful career over something temporary. Also, other than my job situation, we both really love the life we’ve built in our current city.

    Additionally, I was offered the choice of joining a training class that starts in mid May or joining a class that starts in early August. If I choose the August date and find a job where I would be equally happy in my current city between now and then, does anyone have any idea what the repercussions could be? I assume I’ll burn a bridge with the State Department but wonder how accurate that is or if it could be more far reaching (I know that normally reneging on an offer is a bad idea). Any insight anyone has on this or anything else that could be helpful in making the decision whether or not to take this job would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    1. AnotherFed*

      Did you accept the State Dept job, or not? If you accepted it, then you will burn a bridge if you turn it down; how critical that is to you depends on whether you want a similar job sometime in the future and whether these people will remember you in a few years.

      If you don’t want to uproot your spouse, would you consider living separately for this tour of duty? Is it the sort of appointment where you can return to the US for major holidays without much trouble, stay in touch easily, and/or have your spouse take an extended vacation to visit you?

      1. Naji*

        I haven’t accepted yet (I need to decide by Tuesday). Living separately is something we’ve been discussing. I think income has the potential to be more a limiting factor in planning visits (for me at least) than time. This position isn’t nearly as well paid as a regular foreign service job unfortunately.

        1. Dawn*

          Only you and your partner can decide what to do. From where I’m sitting there are three options:
          1- Turn down the job
          2- Take the job, partner comes with
          3- Take the job, partner stays in the states

          You two need to hash out all of the positives and negatives that’ll come with each decision, and then it should be clear what you should do in the larger context of your lives together.

  98. Anonymous today*

    I think I need to quit my job wth nothing else lined up. It’s been destroying my health and I’ve been trying to find another job on and off for the last year with some interest but no successes, and I regret not leaving sooner even with all the risks that would have entailed as I’ve only sink deeper and deeper into a professional hole trying to play it safe.

    Staying in a bad place to avoid the nothing-lined-up risks was a horrible horrible mistake and I’m in more risk now than I was before by investing this amount of time and piece of my career somewhere so damaging.

    Just wanted to get that out.

    2. Anon Accountant*

      100% understand. Sometimes that all you can do. I hope you find something better ASAP.

    3. Dot Warner*

      It might be better to quit with nothing lined up than to take the first thing that comes along and thus fling yourself into a worse situation than the one you came from. (Don’t ask how I know this…)

  99. Anon Accountant*

    So a recruiter contacted me yesterday about a job that would be processing payroll for a large corporation. It’s about 45 minutes away on a 1-way commute and my current commute is 15 minutes. I don’t know how I feel about it because of the commute and that’s because of winter weather is a concern.

    An employer I interviewed with last month said after tax season he is going to select candidates for round 2 of the hiring process (I’m 1 of 3 original interviewees). The 2nd part is meeting the other employees and seeing how well the job fit is. It’d be a short commute of about 20 minutes. I’m getting antsy and just want to be out of this toxic job ASAP. Ugh

    1. Ordinary Worker*

      I’ve done the 45 minute commute in winter weather… it became a 90 minute commute. I ended up getting laid off but I would have left soon regardless.

      Commute time is definitely a factor for overall job contentment, don’t accept a job due to desperation only… be sure to look at all the factors. Is it really worth a long, tiring, stressful commute everyday for 2+ years to get out of where you are now?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. Hold out for something closer. It’s miserable to trade a toxic job for a long commute in the winter.

      2. Anon Accountant*

        You all are right. It wouldn’t be worth it. Commute time and the actual commute is a factor. It sure is hard in the meantime though to keep from accepting the 1st job offer. (assuming they’d offer). Ugh!

  100. It's the weather we love*

    I’ve been working as an H.R. Analyst for six months now, after three years in recruiting, and I need a change already. I am not interested in HR or recruiting but I don’t know what else I can do. I like data and analysis but not this field. I’m not people-oriented at all. Are there any careers I should look into? I have a master’s in public policy but I might consider going back for some school if necessary. Any insight or ideas would be appreciated!!

  101. TeamWhiskeyTangoFoxtrot*

    Is this atypical or no big deal?

    Work for a small team and we have one spot open for a junior level position who will be doing support work for the team. Our manager and two of the more senior staffers held the interviews with the candidates. But didn’t share any information with the team about these candidates, what they were looking for. All we knew was they were interviewing and the posted job duties. It wasn’t until someone from another team asked me and the non-senior staffers about the new person starting that we even knew a person was hired.
    This bugged me out that the our manager and the senior staffers didn’t share with the team that they hired someone to be a part of our small group. So, is typically how a team finds out about a new hire? Or am I right to be bugged out?

    1. AnotherFed*

      Normally, you wouldn’t necessarily know anything about the candidates – usually only the people actively involved in the hiring process see details. As for the criteria, they probably think that was pretty clear in the job description (that may or may not be true, but it’s usually what they *think*). As for the new hire, typically once the person has accepted and at least set a start date (but sometimes as late as when the person arrives), an email comes around announcing the hire, maybe saying a little bit about them, and when they will be starting/what they will be doing. Many places don’t do that email until the person has officially accepted the job, passed the background check, and set a start date, because they don’t like saying “oops, jk” if the first choice ends up taking another job or failing the background check. Where I work, they don’t even send it until the person is here because that’s typically when the provide all the critical info – ID, transcripts/diploma, etc. – to officially onboard them.

    2. Bea W*

      My work has mostly been on teams of a dozen people or less. It’s really hard not to know when a new position was open, what it was, when people were interviewing, and when someone was hired. I wouldn’t necessarily know anything about the candidates, unless I had to interview them yourself, but everyone on the team was certainly aware it was going on, and the hiring manager will generally make an announcement to the team when the offer has been accepted or sometimes sooner to let us know an offer was made.

    3. Jen RO*

      I am involved in hiring for my small department and I do tell my coworkers when I am interviewing, and I share some details if they ask (along the lines of “I saw a person with a background in X and I thought she would be a good fit”). I am usually the one to let the team know when a new person starts and I do it as soon as I get a start date confirmed with HR.

    4. Judy*

      I’m one of the senior staffers on my current team, and I’m involved in the interviews. After the interviews, we have a meeting about our impressions and opinions. I don’t even know who my manager makes an offer to until he announces to the team that Fergus is starting the next week. Sometimes even that Fergus is starting tomorrow.

      At my former job, once the manager made the decision, he told the leads his strategy about offers, and then later announced to the team once a start date was set up. (He would say that he was going to offer to Jane first, if she didn’t accept, then he would offer to Fergus, but if he didn’t accept, we would start searching again.)

    5. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      On my team we have had two instances of someone from the front desk coming back to tell us so and so was at the front and would we come get them. No one had told us they had hired someone, none of us knew the persons name, and all of a sudden we had to make space for a new person starting that morning. Or, more typically, we get told after the fact that they hired someone – no information on who this person is or why their background is important for what we are doing (especially when its been significantly different from what we focus on). It absolutely bugs me. To me its inconsiderate both ways.

      My issue is that we are project based and a small team, so to me fit is important. Previous companies there is always a chance to meet the candidate at some point before offer – a lunch with us, a quick chat with a coffee, something to give us some input and to let the candidate meet us too. This place? No. So we are a hodge-podge of personalities that can get along professionally more or less but overall don’t actually enjoy spending 8 hours a day with each other. And of course none of the new hires finds out about the one really obnoxious person on the team until they start… and get to listen to him eat soup every.single.day.

  102. Mockingjay*

    Busy today. I have a 50-slide PowerPoint deck to format and edit by COB. Oh, and please create a new Slide Master design while you are at it.

    Why, oh why do people think large documents can be done in a half hour?

    I need chocolate.

    1. Bea W*

      You mean to say the PowerPoint fairy doesn’t just visit your desk and create these things with a generous sprinkling of magical fairy dust? Intriguing.

      I feel your pain!

    2. Sadsack*

      I am so grateful right now that I don’t have to attend any meetings any time soon that will require a 50 page PPT.

    3. FridayTired*

      Because someone evil found a way to do it in the past and they started to assume that was traditional. (sorry! I’ve been this person, and I’ve suffered for my own mistakes.)

  103. overeducated*

    Can you financially afford to kick it up just one notch at a time, make adjustments, and then add just a little more week by week?

  104. AnotherFed*

    No question, just a vent. My job is often a lot of firefighting on small fires, but the last couple of weeks have been full out California wildfires. It’s even worse because most of it was set (maybe even deliberately) by one of my coworkers, who is supposed to be on the same side as my team! To make it worse, my primary work computer won’t boot, the voicemail light on my phone no longer indicates when there’s voicemail or not, and I don’t even get one weekend day off because I have to do my real (non-firefighting) work that’s falling behind. I’m so over this that I’m worried I’m going to just lose it on a rant worthy of yesterday’s thread,

      1. AnotherFed*

        Yes, metaphorical fires. We only occasionally have actual fires, and those are really just ‘letting the smoke out’ of prototype electronics.

    3. SL #2*

      I live in California in a region where wildfires are common, so it did not even occur to me until I read Sadsack’s comment that you could be using firefighting as a metaphor. Oh my gosh.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yeah, me too. I was wondering if we should call the police or something… phew. Glad we don’t have to!

  105. A.J.*

    I work on a large team of contractors, and 2 months ago I was promoted to be the lead for one of our team’s big projects. While working on said project this past week, both of my managers have been telling other team leads various pieces of information behind my back. There was a big last minute change, and instead of telling me, the project managers told other team leads what needed to be fixed. I had no idea, and the entire time I thought the project was completed. This happened on a few other cases as well. And then the other team leads haven’t been telling me of these changes, they just go ahead and change things with the data.

    I have told both the other team leads and the project managers that I would like to be notified of changes first, or that we should all be notified of changes, but it keeps happening. I honestly can’t figure out if they are doing this deliberately or if I am overreacting. But it seems to me that as the project lead, I need to be made aware of major project changes. If anyone has advice I would certainly appreciate it, but I really just needed to vent about this somewhere.

    1. Sadsack*

      Any chance you can pull all sides together in a brief meeting and ask what’s going on? Even if just a conference call. Say such and such keeps happening, ask whats going on? Then just let them try to explain. Suggest that everyone agree to set protocols for notifications.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Or going the opposite way, each time it happens find out who dropped the ball and go back for a direct conversation with that person(s).

  106. StarHopper*

    I wrote in last week about switching from public to private school. Thanks to Anonymous Educator and others who chimed in on my dilemma.

    I had my Skype interview this morning, and it went really well! It seems like a school where I would be a good fit. Afterwards, I found a four-leaf clover in my yard, so fingers crossed for lucky omens!

  107. Bea W*

    I am working from home today while my office shuffles people about again! This is quite a bummer for us, because we will be scattered about again. I guess we got about 6 months to sit together as a full team. No one is happy to be broken up again. We also had to squeeze 3 people to a cube that was originally 2 single cubes, but they took the middle divider out. The middle divider was actually the cabinet space. So now not only are they crammed, but there have no storage space.

    There just isn’t enough cube space to go around, but there are more than a few empty large offices. If the company is looking for more space for workstations, they could convert some of that space into shared offices to sit 2 people comfortably.

    If there aren’t enough people who need single offices to fill the single offices, that seems like it would be a more reasonable solution to the seating the people who don’t need single offices. Seating 2 people in a standard cubicle space is insanity. Sure, you removed the file cabinet, but you need more space than the width of a file cabinet to fit in another person!

    1. ThatGirl*

      Are you me? I’m working from home because of a huge cubicle shuffle today. Funny. But it sounds like the opposite problem you have – we are consolidating teams and moving my group closer together on a different floor.

  108. Mona Lisa*

    I’m a little bit late to this party, but here’s a job-related question I posed on my Facebook this week that generated a lot of discussion, and I’d love the AAM community’s take on it:

    Would you accept employment that required you to be fingerprinted?

    This is not for security level clearance or a background check but would be required in order to log your hours each day. (You would clock in with an ID badge and then scan your fingerprint. Even salaried employees must do this.) The employer would not erase the collected information once you had left the position.

    1. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

      Hmm, my initial thought is that it wouldn’t bother me but I’m curious to know what the pros and cons and objections are.

    2. Megs*

      Eh, it sounds kind of weird, but I don’t think it’d be a big deal (assuming one has fingerprints). I use my fingerprint to unlock my phone and laptop, might as well use it as a universal password substitute. At least as things are right now, I don’t see how it would be much or any or an identify theft or privacy risk.

      That said, I freaking hate being required to clock in at all.

      1. Bea W*

        It certainly would solve the problem of people forgetting or losing their ID/access badges.

    3. fposte*

      I do kid-related work, so it’s par for the course, but every day just seems like a pain in the digit.

    4. katamia*

      It seems like serious overkill to me, and if it were low-paying or I had any other concerns about the job or organization, that would probably be enough for me to turn down an offer. However, if I really wanted the job and it made sense to have that much security (like maybe a banking position or something at a police department compared to McDonald’s–no disrespect to fast-food workers, but there’s no reason to have that level of security for jobs like that), then I might accept it, although I wouldn’t like it, and I’d be worried that something else was rotten in the state of Denmark that they thought this type of approach would be necessary. But for something that I was relatively confident would be a great opportunity for me, I’d suck it up for a few years, probably.

    5. AnotherFed*

      I already have. We don’t clock in with fingerprints (we’re exempt anyway so we don’t clock in period), but yes, they have all that info and use it for various things. So far, no one from China has used my breached OPM data to implicate me by leaving my fingerprints at a crime scene… so yeah, there are some insane implications of your employer having that much data on you.

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      Would you accept employment that required you to be fingerprinted?

      I already have. Almost every time I’ve applied for a job at a school (i.e., almost every time I’ve started up a new job), I’ve had to give fingerprints.

      1. Jennifer*

        I got bait and switched on that–I got hired and then years later they demanded my fingerprints. Nothing I could do to argue it at that point.

        1. Mona Lisa*

          This is kind of what’s happened to me, but it’s been months not years. I was aware some other employees had to be fingerprinted, but my boss told me our dean hadn’t requested it for our office so the biometric scanning wouldn’t be required of us. Now HR is coming back and claiming it will be a requirement under the new Kronos upgrade they’re doing this summer. I really hate that I wasn’t told this upfront.

    7. FridayTired*

      The upside to this would be assuming you have a place to clock in that isn’t your computer, so you are at least getting paid for all the time starting at your building/leaving from your building. Better than the start up the super slow computer to clock in variety.

      I think I would be ok with it.

      I’d be slightly less ok with them not having a policy to get rid of it when I was gone, do they have a records retention thing that says they’ll get rid of it after x years or what kind of security policy they have on accessing those records?

    8. LizB*

      I worked for a place that used a fingerprint time clock, and I didn’t mind it (although I minded about a million other things about that job, and didn’t stay long). It was working with vulnerable kids, so I had been fingerprinted anyway for the background check, and the time clock only recorded the prints on two fingers (one primary, one as backup). If I hadn’t been fingerprinted anyway… I still don’t think I would have minded, because is it even possible to do nefarious things with a record of my thumbprint? The system had pros and cons for me, but the pros (not having to wait for the ancient computer to log me in, not having to fill out paper timecards, if I forgot my ID badge one day I could make a temporary one and still clock in) outweighed the cons (having to go back in if I forgot to clock out at the end of my shift).

    9. Beezus*

      If my fingerprints were needed anyway, for a security clearance or background check, I would mind less. If there were an understandable reason why they needed extra security around building access or logins, I would be okay with it. If it were just a random office job with no sensitive materials and no need for unusual security measures, I’d give it some side-eye.

      I know there’s really not probably much harm anyone can do with a fingerprint record, but I value my privacy and would have a hard time with biological data being recorded and used for a need that could easily be served by something less personal. (I am also a stickler about knowing why my SSN is needed on a form, and refusing to put it in or opting out of a process if I don’t feel it’s really necessary and/or might not be handled appropriately.)

    10. Phoebe*

      I already work in such a place, sort of. Our exempt employees don’t have to use it (though some do to track their time) and we don’t have badges. We have fingerprint reader for a time clock. I hate it, but not for the reasons you’d think. It NEVER works right. It crashes, freezes and mixes up 3 of our employees even though there’s only about 30 of us in the office. This happens every day. This means people’s times have to be constantly adjusted or manually entered. I’m not sure why we have it as we’re not a business that requires high security or anything.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      Not thrilled about it but I have. And I would again if I have to. I think this will become normal stuff. So I figure I better get used to it.

  109. HeyNonnyNonny*

    Just hoping for some good vibes :/

    I’m just a few months into my new job and I am full of regrets– I’m dealing with grumpy old men who don’t like document control or being nice, office politics, and hours of emptiness where I feel completely useless! Even worse, all those horrible things are bleeding over into my home life. Aaaaugh! I know it’s just a lull at work, and hey, the pay and benefits are better than my old job, but I feel completely useless and horrible right now. Internet hugs or good wishes would be appreciated.

    1. Megs*

      Good vibes! My career situation has been bleeding into my home life for years now and man is it a drag. Hang in there! I don’t know you, but I’m pretty sure you’re neither useless nor horrible.

    2. Bored*

      No grumpy old men at my work but I just posted upthread about having a lull at work that’s making me feel useless. I feel your pain and you have all of my good vibes!

  111. Tea*

    Any suggestions or advice on how to handle an awkward race-related issue at work? Lately, I keep fielding questions along the lines of “What are you?”, “Where are you from?”, “What country are you from?”, etc.etc. from clients and other professionals who are complete strangers to me. They’ll come into the office, maybe say hi to me, and then immediately ask.

    It’s obvious that the reason they’re asking is because I’m not white, and they want to know (why do they want to know?? I have no idea) what nationality I am. I find this really irritating and rude, and honestly none of their dang business, but I also want to be client friendly and not make them feel uncomfortable. And when I answer semi-truthfully along lines they don’t expect (ex: I’m American. From Pennsylvania. And before that? Canada.), I’ll get interrogated about my genealogy all the way up to my great-grandparents, and questions like “But no, REALLY, where are you FROM?”

    Is it worth continuing to deflect, or any tactful way to discourage this from clients or professional relations? I’m not out to hide my nationality or anything, and I’m happy to tell friendly acquaintances, coworkers, and even clients that I’ve had a chance to chat with briefly, but I just consider this a totally inappropriate first question to be asked by a stranger, on par with “So, are your parents divorced?”

    Checking in with other coworkers, I get responses like “Oh, they’re just curious!”, and my manager believes that racism is something that only happens to white men, so there’s that.

    1. Megs*

      Bleh, that sucks – I don’t know why strangers would think that’s appropriate (extra bleh to the “what are you” formulation. A tree?). Maybe if they push after the “I’m from Pennsylvania” answer (or before) just ignore the question and go with a cheerful “what can I help you with today?” kind of line, or something else appropriate to your work.

      1. Tea*

        For a while when strangers would ask me this outside of work (which also happens all the time, wtf), I’d trained myself to deadpan answer, “I’m a lobster.” Too bad that wouldn’t fly in the office, but yeah, redirection may be my best choice.

    2. Chameleon*

      Ugh. I don’t have any good advice, because I have found people who are clueless enough to ask that question simply will not give up regardless of your deflections. But I’m so sorry you have to deal with it.

      Also my manager believes that racism is something that only happens to white men my eyes are rolling OUT OF MY FACE

      1. Tea*

        YOU AND ME BOTH, argh. Once he said it out loud in the office to someone else, and I just….. wanted to laugh out loud.

    3. Mike C.*

      Uh holy shit, that’s terrible. Frankly, I don’t think there’s a tactful way to deal with this when your shitty coworkers and boss won’t even acknowledge that it’s an issue in the first place.

      I wish I had a better answer for you. :(

      1. Tea*

        I’m happy with commiseration! It’s hard because well, most of my coworkers aren’t white either and most of them have no problems answering about their ethnicity when asked. Heck, some of them even answer on my behalf (which I’ve had to ask them to stop doing.) I understand that they don’t have to have the same objections I do, but it makes it even more awkward when I’m the only person who seems to have an issue with it.

    4. Sadsack*

      The Daily Show’s Jessica Williams did a piece about this recently. It was about dating, but included the issue of asking people about their ethnicity.

      Sorry I probably won’t be much help here. What if you just pause, thoughtfully look at the person and ask, “Do you have any questions about (whatever you do)?”. Or, “I’d be happy to answer any questions about (whatever), but I’m not up for discussing my ethnicity, thanks”. If you are very polite about it, I hope most people would realize their mistake and move on.

      1. Tea*

        Oh, I’ll have to check that out! I don’t watch the Daily Show much, but I’ve always enjoyed what bits I’ve caught.

        I think I may try that on some of the more persistent ones. The thing is that this I work with a lot of ah…. shall we say, people who have never had to examine their positions on race, and complain about how “political correctness is infecting the world!!” and “in the good old days, nobody was offended! I’ll call people what I want!”

        1. Sadsack*

          Yeah, I’ll bet in the good old days everyone they worked with were white and possibly men.

          1. Tea*

            Or that the people being referred to by slurs or pejoratives kept their mouths shut and didn’t feel comfortable speaking up. Funny how that happens, huh?

      2. Laura*

        Love these responses– gonna tuck those away for next time someone says “you look so exotic!” Thanks!

    5. Joie de Vivre*

      No real advice, just commiseration. I’m from a mixed race background and get the same questions all.the.time.
      For me, it’s a complicated story with a bunch of missing pieces that I find way too much detail to share with a comparative stranger.

      I usually reply with ‘Canadian’ but it rarely seems to stop people from pushing for a more detailed answer.

      1. Tea*

        Oof, you definitely have my sympathies as well. The sheer number of people who think it’s appropriate to pry about mixed-people’s backgrounds and families is mind-boggling to me, and I’ve only witnessed it second-hand with a friend.

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      Commiseration here, too. I wish I had a magic bullet. Unfortunately, I can’t do the “What kind of Asian are you?” YouTube video response in real life. It’s obviously not just curiosity, because once you say you’re from Pennsylvania, that should be the end of the conversation.

      1. Tea*

        That “What Kind of Asian Are You?” Youtube vid pretty much sums up the story of my life, and I love it a lot. Too bad it’s not an appropriate response at work.

    7. Papyrus*

      I get this a lot. I’m mixed race, and it’s not entirely obvious what nationality I am. When I’ve been asked the question, I personally didn’t think they had racist intentions or anything towards me, but it was just an icebreaker question. Of course, it’s something that I would never dream of asking someone else, but I do think it’s just making conversation. I usually just give a brief answer “I’m half this and half that” and it’s usually done with. The only thing I get annoyed at is when they go “Oh, you’re [race]? Do you know Stacey?” What? No, we don’t all know each other!

      Sorry I don’t have any advice to deflect the question, but I would just give a brief answer if you feel comfortable with that, and maybe just try to change the subject.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I personally didn’t think they had racist intentions or anything towards me

        Something I’ve learned over the years is that you don’t actually have to have racist intentions to have racist impact.

        1. Papyrus*

          That’s definitely true. What I meant was, I think this question is mostly a way for the other person to find common ground and relate to you. I also get a lot of “Oh you’re [race]? I love [insert traditional ethnic dish here]!” I mean, it’s completely odd and tone deaf, and it would be like me going “You have a French last name? I love crepes!” and I’ll fully admit that I’m lucky and privileged that I’ve never had an intentionally racist encounter, so I tend to think most people have good intentions. Where are you from is probably the most common icebreaker question, and if you’re of a different race, I guess some people just get too specific with it.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            Yeah, I totally get that it’s well-intentioned, but even “needing” that interaction to find “common ground” assumes we don’t already have common ground—that I must necessarily be some foreign/alien being, my foreignness has to be established first, and then my foreignness can be related to.

            If I say I’m from Pennsylvania, you can tell me what you love about Pennsylvania.

      2. Tea*

        I don’t think anyone asking me this question has overtly racist intentions either, but it just falls into the low-key small potatoes racism that people don’t even think about and I am so, so very tired of.

        They wouldn’t think of saying to another white person, “So, what are you? No, but where are you from REALLY?” or “Wow, your English is so good,” or “People like you (translation: Asian women) make really good employees, because you just keep your heads down and work really hard” or “All you people look alike! You’re so cute.” So why say it to me, y’know?

          1. Tea*

            Yup! I used to put it out of my mind, but then I had a week where I had people just CONSTANTLY asking, everywhere from the elevator to my apartment to the grocery store to work and at the gas station and I just didn’t want to put up with it anymore, let me go about my life in peace! It’s like being stoned to death with pennies.

        2. anooooooooning*

          I think that’s because a lot of white people love talking about, for example, “my family is Italian / I’m Italian” even though no one in their family practices Italian customs or has been to Italy in decades or even has family in Italy or who immigrated from Italy that they ever knew. In my experience, they’ll bring it up a lot without anyone asking about it, so maybe that’s why they’re tone deaf when asking the question to people of other races.

    8. FridayTired*

      It is none of their business but with a boss like that (SERIOUSLY!?) it might be easiest to just give the answer to those racist questions.
      Alternately (and what I think might be fun, but possibly not make your boss happy) would be to say “Oh my family comes from Canada. Can I help you with those TPS reports?” It might throw them off because it would seem like nearly the answer they want for a moment, hopefully long enough to get them responding to the real question at hand. You could also just do this with Pennsylvania, push right on through to the next thing without waiting for them to say “No but REALLY, I’m uncomfortable with a person of a different skin color who won’t tell me where they are from and my comfort is the only thing that matters in this situations so I need you to soothe me by making me comfortable and saying what your entire lineage is so that I can appropriately profile you and judge you.”

      Good luck!

      1. Doriana Gray*

        “No but REALLY, I’m uncomfortable with a person of a different skin color who won’t tell me where they are from and my comfort is the only thing that matters in this situations so I need you to soothe me by making me comfortable and saying what your entire lineage is so that I can appropriately profile you and judge you.”

        All of this, because this is what they’re really saying even if they don’t realize it on a conscious level.

    9. Karowen*

      I’d be tempted to respond with job related stuff as long as you can, then switch to non-sequiturs when you can’t make it work anymore.

      Them: “What are you?”
      You: “Teapot Coordinator.”
      Them: “No, but where are you from?”
      You: “The Teapot Engineering Department.”
      Them: “Where are you really from?”
      You: “Well I started as an admin.”
      Them: “But what race are you?”
      You: “I run a 5-minute mile” or “I’ve never been in a race, but I can do a 5k/really like horses/love the Daytona races because the cars go so fast/etc.”

      Offer either vaguely confused or super-peppy smiles the whole time.

      2. Jillociraptor*

        Even a warm, diplomatic, “Why do you ask?” can be good in these sorts of cases. Usually people will respond with “Oh, I’m just curious!” at which point, YOU get to play the fun 20 questions game.

        “Oh, why are you curious about that?”
        “I don’t quite understand what you mean. Can you ask a different way?”
        “Sorry, I’m still not clear. What’s the information you need from me?”

        Eventually they’ll get frustrated and stop (or, maybe, have an “aha, this is awkward because it’s racist!” moment). But that is a pretty big time and brain-space investment on your part. The whole situation sucks.

        I suppose another option would be to answer “Oh, I’m just curious!” with a smile, “Oh, okay!” and silence. Being able to tolerate long periods of awkward silence is a pretty critical tool for these sorts of situations.

    11. Rebecca in Dallas*

      I think that’s so odd. I really like genealogy, so I’ve gotten into discussions about where our ancestors are from with coworkers/friends before, but it’s not something I would ask someone I just met.

      I’m a fan of turning intrusive questions back on the other person. I’m very petite and occasionally someone will ask me how much I weigh (I think in some cultures that’s not considered rude, but in the US it is), instead of answering I’ll just ask it back to them. Usually they get the hint that it’s a rude question.

      So in your case, “My family is from Canada, what about yours?”

      1. Leena Wants Cake*

        Like.

        Person #1: What are you?
        Person #2: [Cheerfully and earnestly] Oh, I’m human. What are you?

    12. anonanonanon*

      Whenever someone asks an intrusive question like that, I always say “Why do you ask?” or ask them the same question back.

      I get it a lot about sexuality and I’ve found asking someone, “so how did you know you were straight?” or “so how do you have sex?” when they ask how I knew I was bi or how I figure out who tops when I’m with other women makes them realize it’s an inappropriate question.

      Whenever people ask my best friend where she’s from (NY) and they push her to ask where she’s realllly from, if she’s really irritated she’ll say something along the lines of, “So are you from England, then? Isn’t that where all white people originated?” Or she’ll say that not all Asian people are from the same country. The reactions she gets are great.

      1. Karowen*

        To be fair, lots of white people are really proud of their origins because it hasn’t been a racially charged thing for us in recent memory. If [I were so tone deaf that I thought asking these questions were okay and] someone said something like “so are you from England?” my response would be along the lines of “part English, yeah, but also these 6 other things!”

        1. Karowen*

          “To be fair” is the wrong phrasing. More just pointing out that it could back fire and you could instead be subjected to their long and meandering family history. :)

    13. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I really, really hate hearing the, “But what COUNTRY are you from???” It is so damn ignorant. The person in front of you speaks perfect American (or Canadian) English. The assumption should be that he or she is Amurrican, thank you very much.

      I do like asking where people are from during initial (social!) meetings, because I find people’s personal backgrounds to be very interesting. And yes, I like to play geography games. But I once asked a new Asian acquaintance where he was from, and I immediately regretted it– I really was looking for, “California” or “Nebraska”– so now I ask people where they grew up. People who are truly well-intentioned will adjust their ways, not defend their good intentions.

    14. T3k*

      Yeaaaah, asking without even talking with you beforehand is weird and borderline rude. I’m lucky in that I’m mixed (over half non-white) but to most, I look white until they get a better look at me. By then, they’ve usually been around me awhile (like coworkers) so I don’t feel annoyed when asked what I am. For strangers like that though, I’d try to politely deflect the question like “I’m a meat popsicle” I’m the director” etc. and if they push it, I *might* feel inclined to ask why they’re so interested in my ethnicity and it’s none of their business. If I was feeling in a good mood, of course.

    15. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      When I have asked, it is because I wanted to find out if we shared the common experience of being able to speak Japanese as well as familiarity with the culture and cuisine. I feel like it would be super racist to walk up to an Asian and say “Hey do you speak Japanese?” so I instead ask “If you don’t mind me asking, what is your cultural-ancestral heritage?”

      If they say “Why do you ask?” I say “I’ve actually done a lot of travelling to Japan and was curious if you may have traveled their some as well. I’m also really interested in Asian cultures and cuisine in general and would love to chat about that if it is also an interest of yours.”

      Usually though, most people don’t get upset with me when I ask this. I understand getting upset if someone asks “What are you?” because that’s really really rude! But considering how obsessed all Americans all with their ancestral heritage I do not think people should be offended about being asked about it.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        so I instead ask “If you don’t mind me asking, what is your cultural-ancestral heritage?”

        I absolutely wouldn’t take offense to this, as long as you are okay with me saying “I do mind, actually” and don’t insist with follow-up questions.

      2. Doriana Gray*

        But considering how obsessed all Americans all with their ancestral heritage I do not think people should be offended about being asked about it.

        Yes they should because it’s not a stranger’s business what ethnicity they are. “Othering” people, which this is what these types of questions do, is not okay.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I wonder if the “They’re just curious” crowd are the same people who think women should take catcalling as “just a compliment.”

    16. Doriana Gray*

      and my manager believes that racism is something that only happens to white men

      I can’t even.

    17. QualityControlFreak*

      Oh boy, this gives me flashbacks.

      “What are you?” Homo sapiens.
      “Where are you from?” Right here.
      “What country are you from?” USA
      “But where are you from originally?” USA

      Also annoying is the “exotic” label. Nope, domestic and locally produced.

  112. Debbie*

    I interviewed for a position at a large company last fall. I wasn’t the right fit for the job. A month ago, I was contacted by a recruiter of the same company, and wound up interviewing for a different role. I didn’t get that job either, but the recruiter called back to tell me that they think I’m a good fit for other positions within the department, and named a few positions which would be appropriate. Earlier this week, one was posted, and I contacted the recruiter to ask her if she thought that was the right fit / right level for me. She responded via email with the job number, and ignored my question. Should I go forward and apply? This will be the 3rd time I’ve interviewed, and it’s with the same people each time – it’s getting awkward getting rejected from the same company over and over.

    1. Megs*

      Over the course of my extended job search, I’ve done the “interviewed multiple times for the same or similar job at the same place” thing a bunch of times. I’ve interviewed for my dream job three times with two second interviews (sigh). Yesterday I interviewed for a job I interviewed for two years ago, they remembered me, and were really nice about it. They wouldn’t keep interviewing you if you didn’t have a shot, right?

      Also, boo at that recruiter.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Definitely apply. You’re right that they wouldn’t keep interviewing you if they weren’t interested. I got my current job after being rejected from another department within the company. It’s all about being the right fit for the right team!

  114. overeducated*

    Total desperation on the interview front here. I have six in a three week period, after a month dry spell, but the first two this week were just bad (basically I did badly on one but am probably not that interested in the job anyway, and the other paid too little to make it worth relocating), and two of the next four would be “settling” jobs that would not give me the stability or experience I’m looking for. Meanwhile, I have applications out for several jobs I’m excited about, but it may be weeks before hearing about interviews, if ever.

    The problem: I’m starting to have a real problem lining up interviews with my current temp work, or keeping interviews from conflicting with each other. There are only two days a week when I have no flexibility, and three days this month when I’m traveling for an out of town one, but interviewers keep a) only suggesting very limited slots on those days, or b) suggesting very limited slots that conflict with other interviews. Is it a waste of time to keep doing interviews for the ‘settling’ jobs, when I don’t seem to be in a position to be too picky?

    I’m supposed to go back to a seasonal job in June but am seriously considering withdrawing so I will have more flexibility because I really need stability more than I need the money from a few months of short term work. However, I still need that supervisor as a reference. Should I stay or should I go?

    Argh. this just keeps dragging on.

    1. FridayTired*

      Would you take one of these “settling” jobs if they were offered to you? If so keep doing them, if not don’t.

      I think if you had a seasonal job and previous seasons you were on good terms with the supervisor and you just said that you wouldn’t be able to work this season (especially if you said it now) that you would still have a good reference. You know them best, but if they are reasonable, I can’t imagine they’d be bothered by you simply saying that you won’t be able to return this season.

      1. Overeducated*

        I feel like I would have to take one if offered, because I have been looking seriously since last summer and can’t hold out another year, but I wouldn’t be thrilled about it because I would have to search again in another year.

        The seasonal job boss already asked me to commit to a start date months in advance and said they were “counting in me” due to issues hiring, so I worry how it would look to withdraw while they were still getting reference calls, making it clear I don’t have a new job yet…..

  115. Anon for this*

    Got a call from a place I’d applied to in March saying they were finalizing the list of candidates they wanted to speak to further. The hiring manager wanted to know if I was still interested (very much so, yes) and asked me the difference between Teapot Services (what they do) and Teapot Management (what I’m currently doing). I gave him 30 seconds on the distinction (not as much as it seemed on the face of things) and said that I had over 10 years’ experience in Teapot Services as well. He said, “that sounds good” and went on to make admiring noises about a project that I’ve gotten some recognition for. I said I looked forward to the opportunity to talk further, and we hung up.

    That of course was two weeks ago..

  116. Chameleon*

    I just have to brag a little bit because I finally set my defense date!!! Barring unfortuante circumstances, I will officially be a PhD on June 20!!

    Now I just have to get together a teaching philosophy, write a bunch of cover letters, apply for about a million positions…oh, yeah, and write my dissertation… -_-

  117. anonypoo*

    Any advice for when you’re an awesome individual contributor, but have no interest in team leadership/management? Can I make this known without torpedoing future advancement and becoming “that guy who doesn’t want to work with us”?

    I swear I’m not being arrogant, my manager does tell me I’m great and the people I support do as well. I want to spend my days solving problems for THEM, not helping Sally (who does my job supporting another department) debug simple syntax errors she could be Googling!

    1. Doriana Gray*

      When you’re telling your manager you have no interest in moving into management ask for more challenging projects instead. Tell her you want to become a subject matter expert in your field and in order to do that, you have to stay technical.

  118. Cheddar2.0*

    Oh I have a question!!!
    Recently promoted to exempt. Asked to take 5 days off. Was told this was fine, except I might have to call in remotely up to 3 times to run meetings during my vacation. There’s no one else who can run the meeting (no redundancy in federal grants, yay.) and canceling them isn’t okay either. It would be a total of up to 5ish hours over the 5 days off.

    How do I deal with my PTO input on my timesheet with this? We’re supposed to take in half-day increments. Should I take 4 full days and 1 1/2 day? Should I just assume this is how it goes when you’re exempt? My boss gave the impression that she thinks that taking 5 full days off is the better way to do it because I can’t be sure how much time I might need to call in.

    1. Graciosa*

      Don’t assume, ask.

      Your bottom line should be that you get your full time off, so my default would be four full days and a half day would get you about where you need to be, although I can see other arguments.

      One possible exception would arise if you are, as an exempt employee, routinely allowed to take off a few hours here and there (errand, medical appointment, nothing urgent at work to do, whatever) without taking vacation. When that happens, it can be normal to treat this as a trade off for a few hours on the phone on vacation as a trade for that.

      It’s hard to strike a balance in this area, as you want to protect your vacation without creating a situation where your employer starts managing your attendance as if you were non-exempt.

      So my default is to tell you just to ask. Ask you manager, ask HR, ask other colleagues (to get a sense of the culture before pinging the boss) but just ask.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I think you have to go with what your boss says, but… this is crappy. Calling in 3 times to run meetings? Is it really that necessary for you to be there? Your boss can’t do it this one week?

      This is not how it’s supposed to work when you’re exempt, or non-exempt– you’re supposed to be able to actually take time off.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m not sure about the legal aspects of this, but one office job I had in which I was exempt had a very explicit HR rule that if you worked any time that day, you worked, if you were exempt.

      In other words, if I came in at 8:00 AM and left at 9:00 AM because I had a headache, that meant I worked that day. That wasn’t a sick day, even though I wasn’t feeling well. Now, obviously, if I had worked only one hour a day every day, my boss would have put me on a PIP and eventually have fired me.

      And, it would work the other way, too, of course. If I had to work 8 AM to 9 PM, that was one day. I didn’t get a comp day or overtime.

      Your organization may operate differently, but I think that’s fairly reasonable. If you work any part of the day, that’s a day (or half-day, in your organization’s case). So if you’re working three separate days out of those five days for three meetings (which will presumably take less than half a day each), I’d probably call that 3.5 days off instead of 5.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      If you can only take PTO in half day increments, then I think you should get a half day of work credit for each of the three days that you have to call in, and only have to take full days for the two days that you have completely off.

  119. LawLady*

    A woman that I work with speaks in baby voice all the time. We’re both in our mid-twenties. She’s very professional and very capable, with the exception of constantly assaulting my ears with ooey gooey baby talk. It’s horrible.

    1. Development Professional*

      My sister in law does this, and it is baffling to me. Smart woman, high powered career, baby voice. And it’s like her family can’t hear it. So weird.

    2. ella*

      Alison has had letter addressing this, I think.

      I also don’t understand young women? Who always talk like they’re asking questions?

      1. LizB*

        Okay, this is just my pet peeve, but the speech pattern you’re describing (known as uptalk) is a) sometimes part of a regional dialect and b) also used by men, albeit not as often as women. We as a society just love to criticize women’s every move, so the stereotype is that only women ever do it. Like it or dislike it all you want, but it’s not only a young woman thing.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I know it’s a very distinct part of the Belfast accent (or, at least, that’s what it sounds like to my ears), but I still hate it. However, I do agree with you that it’s not just women. I really hate when ANYONE does it. Same goes for vocal fry.

          I told my grandfather the other day that it makes me so proud that one of his great-nieces, who’s 14, speaks so beautifully. No uptalk, no vocal fry, no forced high pitch. My bar is low. (She is also a great kid for many other reasons.)

        2. Mreasy*

          Sometimes it’s just someone’s voice (see: radio personality, author, and all-around badass Sarah Vowell), but put-on baby voice can be upsetting when women do it as it feels to be catering to cultural stereotype. You can pry my vocal fry and occasional uptalk from my cold, dead, senior executive hands though! Y’all are just going to have to get used to it. (And for an example of a successful man who is never criticized for these quirks, listen closely to Ira Glass sometime.)

    4. FridayTired*

      Oh I know a 40+ year old man who does this when he’s stressed, it is so weird. I have nothing but sympathy. So frustrating.

    5. Laura*

      I met a girl in college who does this. Ran into her later and heard her speaking normally– so she IS capable of it! Such an annoying thing to do, although I think her particular case was a result of some personal issues that have since been resolved.

    6. blackcat*

      If you have not, I strongly encourage you to watch the movie “In a world”

      The main character is a female voice coach/voice actor. I won’t ruin it for you, but the commentary on women using baby voice was AMAZING (and, I found, not in a demeaning way. More in a “WTF world do we live in that we train women to do this?” kind of way).

  120. Development Professional*

    How do I get my boss to stop reading her email during our weekly check in meetings and focus on our conversation?

    I have tried pausing my comment/question/answer to her question until she’s done, but this often results in her saying “keep going, I’m listening” while she reads and types emails on an unrelated subject.

    It affects her ability to concentrate – we’ll be talking about something, an email will come in, and she’ll lose her train of thought. So it’s having an impact. We meet in her office, so she’s in front of her computer, but I’m not sure that moving the meeting to my office or a conference room would stop her from just reading email on her phone.

    1. Graciosa*

      You may need to try the old standby for addressing the pattern of behavior with “When you [check your email during our meeting / behavior] it makes me feel [that I don’t have your full attention / that our meetings are not important to you / that my projects are not important to you]. Would it be possible for you [to shut down your email when we meet / choose a different time for our regular meetings / move our meetings to the conference room / other solution]?”

      Of course, you’ll have to get her attention first –

    2. NN*

      Oh, do we have the same boss? Except mine will also be having a teleconference with another group at the same time (with the phone on mute). It drives me nuts because she misses most of what I’m saying (& also a lot of the teleconference; she’ll only un-mute to say something when they’ve had to say her name a couple of times asking for her input).

      I don’t have any advice as everything I’ve tried (eg having meetings not in her office, explaining how it affects me and asking for her full attention) has failed. But as posted above, I’ve just given notice so only another 6 weeks til I don’t have to put up with this anymore! But I extend my genuine commiserations; for me at least, her behaviour is not going to change and all I could do was decide whether I could tolerate it or leave.

  121. ella*

    One of my coworkers, who put in his notice a week and a half ago because he got a new job (he was so happy he was literally dancing when he told us) just sent out an email that the offer had been rescinded because of “a discrepancy on his academic record.” Luckily, our hiring process is really slow so he gets to keep his current job, but oh man. I feel really bad for him, even if the “discrepancy” is his own fault.

      1. ella*

        We’re a small-ish department, about twenty people, and maybe he felt like he had to share *some* reason.

  122. SweetTeaPots*

    Started a new job in January in a department that still had a vacancy for a different role. Now due to budget cuts, I am being moved from my department so it can fill that open vacancy (the alternative was that vacancy would be cut). My move will fill an open vacancy in another department.

    My current position is a specialist, and my new position will be a Senior specialist. I have a meeting next week to discuss current status and transition….but no talk of any pay differential. If I’m moving to a more senior position, but it’s not a promotion, should I be discussing a new salary even though it’s not really a choice to move? If so, how would you broach the subject?

    1. Emmie*

      I would approach it during the meeting next week. Make it a larger part of the job duties, position differences, manager expectations, working conditions, hours, salary vs hourly conversation. All of these are normal things to bring up, and you’ll want to do that. Good luck!

  123. Marcy Marketer*

    I love my job 80% of the time. Occasionally people are unable to do exactly what I think they should do, for whatever reason (competing priorities, different direction from someone above me, etc), and I understand and move on. However, people outside of my office are absolute murder to work with. If I can’t do something exactly the way they think it should be done at the exact time they want, they act like I’m terrible at my job– and imply that people are talking about me.

    Ex: low level admin wants me to update something. I tell her that in accordance with X’s instructions, I can’t do that because of (strategy behind the decision). “Oh well I’ll just tell the folks at lunch when it comes up, you know how people like to complain at lunch.”

    Different admin: “No one knows about C.”
    Me: “I communicated the information in these ways. Is there a way I could have been more clear?”
    Admin: “Oh well you know how people like to talk.”

    I do know how people like to talk at this company, and frankly, I have a low tolerance for it. I don’t want to work in this kind of environment, where people are speculating toxically all the time. This is only my third company, and the previous two were small (under 20 employees). My questions: (1) Is this something common to all companies? (2) How can I let it not bother me? (3) Is there a way to change the culture– especially if the “gossip”– whether true or not– influences the high-ups decision making?

    1. Graciosa*

      1) No.
      2) This is a decision you have to make repetitively (every time it happens!).
      3) Unlikely (unless you’re very influential or willing to work years to make minor progress).

    2. Tea*

      My preferred script when anyone tries to loop in implied group disapproval:

      “Hmm? I’m not sure what you’re referring to.”
      Or, in a somewhat puzzled tone, “Don’t people always talk?” Like the point is just soaring over your head.

      You know your company best, but are you sure that when the admin (or anyone else) references ~how people like to talk~ that they’re referring to something that is actually happening, or just trying to pressure you into doing whatever it is that they want?

      1. Marcy Marketer*

        I am sure people are talking– and I am equally sure they are the ones starting the conversation in each instance, if you know what I mean ;)

        It’s not limited to these two people– it seems to be the culture of a certain group of employees here: to strongly imply incompetence behind people’s back and then be mean-polite in person. It’s unfortunate because the pot-stirrer actually ends up causing a lot of bad feelings toward whatever they are complaining about, and getting people to agree with them. I thought about sweetly saying, “No, I’m not familiar with this kind of talk; I must be sitting at the wrong lunch table,” but it hardly seems worth it. I should probably just move on– I just really like my day to day and my team, but I can’t STAND fake nice and being gossiped about. I am becoming more visible in the company and am young looking, and a woman, so I was wondering if maybe I’m in for this no matter where I go once I reach a certain level.

        1. Soupspoon McGee*

          Ug. I’d be tempted to reply to the “people like to talk” implication with some sort of faux-cheerful snark, like “I know! Aren’t backstabbing gossips the WORST?” or “Ug! And don’t you hate it when the people who complain the loudest are the worst offenders? I’m so glad you’re not like that!”

  124. Lucky Charm*

    I’ve been working in marketing/communications for the last decade and I think I’m ready to do change careers. I’m seriously considering becoming a realtor. I’m a good communicator, very detail-oriented, and really enjoy helping people in general. I’m getting married later this year, and my fiancé’s income is pretty steady. I don’t want to jump into real estate full-time just yet, but ultimately, that’s my goal. Has anyone else transitioned in real estate (residential) and if so, do you have any tips?

  125. Elizabeth*

    Hi all,

    Searching out some advice, as I’ve been asked by my boss for some feedback on an aspect of our company operations.

    We work at a small company of 5 regular staff and two consultants. She’s the VP, I’m the sole manager (I started around the beginning of the year). My boss and our president have been really great about making sure people have a work-life balance–comp days for overtime, unlimited sick days, plenty of flexibility for personal appointments, etc., as well as an overall casual work environment and lots of opportunities for professional growth. For me, coming from a large non-profit with a strict hierarchy, little upward mobility, and no money for professional development, it’s been great. I’ve always been good at working independently and given the favorable work environment, it’s motivated me to work all the harder.

    Unfortunately, this has led to some employees being a little lax in their day-to-day projects, adherence to certain aspects of the policy manual like dress code, etc. Things are small enough that my boss (VP) has handled personnel matters up until now but things are getting to a point where we’re probably going to start transitioning that aspect over to me. I’ve worked with the president and VP at a previous job and the latter approached me because she knows that I’m effective, and asked for my thoughts about how to raise the level of professionalism and get people to take their work seriously in a small office where things are, by nature, going to be a bit more casual (we work in the arts and are in an open plan office).

    I suggested possibly having the staff come together to work on a business/strategic plan, to show people where the company is headed in the medium/long-term future (we’re only a year old at this point) and give them an opportunity to weigh in, but since I’ve never really been in a management role or had experience with this sort of thing I wanted to seek out advice from others as well!

    1. AnotherFed*

      I think involving people in the business/strategic plan development is a good idea, as long as you can genuinely accept reasonable input but still put your foot down politely about things when necessary. So, if the VP is really not open to that kind of input, or is only open to it in some areas, proceed with caution.

      As for the professionalism and performance issues, I don’t think a business plan development will get what the VP wants. Most people aren’t going to jump from ‘my non-profit has an awesome growth plan’ to ‘I should stop wearing jeans to work,’ and plain old holding people accountable for missing deadlines is much better if they aren’t doing their work. Personally, I’d only fight dress code and other office formality level battles if there’s a concrete business reason for it, otherwise it could easily come across as you taking a perk away (especially if it’s you cracking down on this after the VP had been more relaxed or just focused on other problems).

    2. S0phieChotek*

      Agree about the dress code, especially if there are not interactions with clients, etc.
      Also, yes it might be a bit of a mental leap from “strategic X year plan” to “office etiquette and expectations”; those sound like two separate conversations.
      That said, in relation to latter–people getting too lax, if VP and you are open, is it possible to discuss the policies and expectations and even have the staff help write a “policy” that everyone can agree on (if possible). I feel like I just read (over at Inc. or Evil HR Lady?) a report that suggests that groups of people that come up with group rules tend to be more rigorous about self-policing themselves vs. policies implemented from external forces.

  126. Phrasing*

    I know there are a few data analysts and data scientists on here so I’m hoping to get some advice from you all…

    I currently work as an admin in higher Ed but I would really like to eventually move to a more analyst type position. The reality is that it’s just not going to happen with my current employer, which is just fine because I’m planning an international move in about a year and a half.
    I’ve just recently come across an online data science masters program from an institution in the country I will be moving to and I’m seriously considering applying. My question is…is this even worth my time and money? How do I break into those kind of data driven roles?

    For what it’s worth, I have a BA and MA in classics/archaeology, so that doesn’t help much.

    1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I wouldn’t start with education personally. I would start with attempting to get an Operations Analyst I or BA position.

  127. Jen RO*

    So, as I was expecting, my best report is going to resign on Monday :( She is getting a big raise at her new job and I am very happy for her, but I was understaffed already – out of my 3 direct reports, one is very new, the other is taking an internal job in two months, and the third is her. I also have several big releases coming up in the next few months, and I am so tired.

  128. Feline*

    So, they’re offshoring part of my team. I have been let go in offshoring in the past, so I haven’t had to navigate the partial-onshore-partial-offshore team thing before. I’m especially lost because this is going to be bringing in writers to contribute to documentation that’s not written in global English.

    I’m an individual contributor, but am expected to take leadership in training at least one resource to replace a coworker who was laid off so they could hire offshore instead, so I’m looking for resources to give this the best chance at working out I can. Is there anything I should read on the subject? Advice on how to keep this on the rails is gratefully appreciated!

    1. Jen RO*

      What’s global English? And can you give a bit more details about the situation? What’s the time difference, is the new hire experienced or new, how big is the team, what kind of training are you expected to provide? (I’m a technical writer who got the offshore position after someone in another country was laid off… twice.)

      Without any context, from the point of view of the offshore person:
      – It wasn’t my fault that the other person was laid off, and I really appreciated when they understood that.
      – The time zone difference was tricky the first time around (US-Europe). I was new to the company and new to the profession and it pretty much sucked for a couple of months, because I was all alone and my trainer only got online at noon, and the crap infrastructure meant virtually no phone/videocalling. If the person is going to be alone in their position in the offshore country, I would make sure to check in with them regularly (once a day, at least) and try to have at least *some* video calls.
      – Try to avoid an “us vs them” mentality (though I admit that it is difficult – I do have a much tighter relationship with people local to me, who I can actually *see* in person, than to people in our other locations).
      – I don’t know what kind of writing you do, but my training went really well the first time because my mentor reviewed everything I wrote for the first months, which helped me get a very good handle on the style guide and things particular to our product. (Then again, I am very hands-on and I would do this for a local employee as well.)

      1. Feline*

        It’s totally not the offshore people’s fault, and I feel like they’re going to be brought into a situation where while we have a lot of documentation, things are so complex that there are a lot of things that are just understood. I don’t want to set the offshore resource up to fail! We’re adding writers in India into a US-based team. I know I’ll have to train in our documentation standards (mostly documented), our industry/product terminology, as well as how to use the myriad obscure and proprietary tools we use. Writers who aren’t facing the huge time zone gap still have many months before they are up to speed.

        Global English is what I was told that is usually taught to tech writing teams who are intending to translate documentation, and I had understood that was what was becoming more of a standard throughout the world for documentation. Unfortunately, we write in very American English, and I worried it would be a fundamental difference. Maybe that’s one less worry.

        You have some really great tips. I really love the idea of videocalls so that they aren’t just disembodied voices. I think in time there will be an offshore team and an onshore team, but they may be working on different technologies with significantly different style guides and toolsets. Would having other writers on the team even though they don’t actually work with you have the ability to answer questions because of differing tools/style guides/etc. have made you feel less isolated in the beginning, or would it just have confused things further?

        1. Jen RO*

          Our circumstances sound very similar, including the very complex terminology. The tools part wasn’t very difficult in our case, but the workflows are complex and 99% of our hires (in my local office) had to learn about the industry from scratch, so I don’t expect anyone to be productive in any meaningful way before the 3 month mark (and “fully up to speed” only happens after a few years). I always tell people this (and they always freak out anyway :D).

          I’m trying to remember my initial training, it was years ago! I think what was most helpful to me was being given some very simple style guidelines (“we never say screen or dialog box, we say window”, etc) and having all my documents reviewed + commented on. However the approach won’t work on everyone… I already had a background in writing and editing, so it all came pretty naturally to me, I just wanted to understand what the company’s standards were. (I think I didn’t mention this – we only hire juniors in my location and most of them have never heard of technical writing before this job, so they need to be taught everything from scratch.)

          Either way, in both remote and local teams, I think extensive reviewing has made the biggest difference.

          I think cultural differences might also play a part in your training. I haven’t worked directly with teams in India, but I have friends who have, and they told me that the communication is (or should be) different if you want to get the best results. I can’t comment on what it would look like, though…

          As for global English, well, I learned a new thing today! (I’m in Romania and most of us speak American English, because we all grew up on Cartoon Network and American movies.) It might be an issue in India, but I think that a list of phrases to use/not use (see “reviewing”, above) would help a lot. Oh, and punctuation, if that’s important to you. Our documentation is written in AmE, but I just can’t get myself to put the comma inside the quotation marks, it looks SO wrong!

          When I first started, I don’t know if a remote coworker with nothing in common would have helped… but it’s one of the things I love about my job now that I am more experienced – being able to reach out to coworkers on other products who can bring another perspective.

          Would it be possible for you or someone from your team to go to India and meet the writer in person? My boss (in the US) visits my office once a year or so, and helps make him seem more like a human and less like a supreme being with power over our salaries :)

          As a final note, I really like talking about this stuff – if you want to carry on further, you can search for me in the AAM LinkedIn group, I think I am pretty easy to identify. I will also keep checking the open thread during the week.

          1. Undine*

            Oh, it’s interesting about training — someone did review my documentation at my first job, but since then, it’s really been sink or swim. There’s a wiki page or two with terminology on it and we have a guide that describes when and how to use each paragraph style, with some technical information about how to do in our authoring tool when relevant (we use Madcap Flare, and I think for all of us, this is the first time we’ve used it, so sometimes the steps to do a complicated task are helpful). We also don’t have an editor on staff, nor do we ever review eachother’s documentation. If you are already doing a lot of training, I can see offshoring being a lot more useful than it ever would be for our small department.

            I put a comma inside the quotes when it is a full clause or substantial string of words, but if it is a single technical term, enclosing the comma is like fingernails on a blackboard for me.

            We actually have developers in Romania, and I will probably be traveling out to Bucharest in June when a bunch of developers from all over Europe are having a meeting.

  129. Zahra*

    Let’s talk switching career paths to Data Science in more detail (data science hiring managers especially welcome).
    I’ve graduated from a BI (business intelligence) program 3 years ago. I took the “reduced coursework and produce a thesis” route instead of the “full coursework and small internship” route. That means that I have some gaps in more advanced subjects: predictive statistics, geospatial BI, data visualization.
    On top of that, my jobs since then haven’t really helped progress as a professional. I’ve done some ETL, no statistics or analytics whatsoever. Mostly, I’ve been a glorified Excel data cruncher, with some Access thrown in (and I barely used some VBA).
    I am currently looking for a job and, in the meantime, preparing for and then taking the “Data Science” specialization on Coursera (they assume basic programming language of which I have none, hence the “preparing for”). I’m assuming I don’t have the qualifications to get a job as Data Scientist right now.

    Other people working in data science:
    What is your background?
    How did you enter the field?
    Did you take specific online or in person classes?
    What tools, software, programming languages, or any specific knowledge did you have to learn or perfect to be a good data scientist?
    What did you do that you would skip if you had to redo it again?

    Hiring managers:
    On a resume from someone like me, what would make you want to interview/hire me? I probably won’t have work experience using statistics, analytics, etc. However, I was pretty good in class (well, more than 3 years ago, so I don’t think this qualifies as relevant experience/coursework anymore, if it ever did).
    What should I add so you want to talk to me in the future?
    How could I prove that I have training and experience outside of work (street cred, basically)?
    Would you take my word for it (to take an example from yesterday, “Built 10 regression models. Largest model had 100 independent variables and 100,000 records. Used real world data from X source (if applicable). Developed my own code (if applicable).”)?
    Or would you like to be able to see for yourself what I’ve done and how I’ve done it on an online portfolio?
    Basically, what should I do now to become a good candidate in a (few) years?

    I took note of everything that was said in the “should you list coursework in your resume” post from last week, but I’d welcome more insights that would apply specifically to me or people like me.

    1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      Didn’t you post this last week? I have nothing further to add than what I said then. : }

    2. CMT*

      Have you looked at job postings for data scientists and the requirement they have? Almost all of the Data Scientists positions I’ve seen require Ph.Ds and *a lot* of programming experience, like SQL, Python, Hadoop, and lots of other things that have really weird names (like, more experience than you’ll get with that Coursera Data Science specialization). You could also look for people with the title Data Scientist on LinkedIn and see what they’ve done.

        1. Zahra*

          I reposted this week because my post last week got so few answers (and Alison suggested it). But, yes, your point is a good one.

          In the last 2 months, the posting I’ve seen for Data Scientist only specify “University degree in X”. However, programming experience is absolutely mentioned as a requirement. I’m thinking of using Coursera as a starting point and then doing more online projects (the Kaggle ones come to mind). I’ll also take a look at data scientists in my area on LinkedIn and see what their background/experience is. My former classmate did the Coursera specialization and, I think, his job had a lot of opportunity to apply that knowledge.

  130. leslie knope*

    i’m currently waiting for a phone interviewer to call me, and they’re already 20 minutes late. is there a rule of thumb about when i can reasonably not answer? i’m kind of irritated, because i do have several other things to do today…

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      That is irritating. I would probably shoot a quick email: “Hey, I see that you’re running late for our scheduled call at _____. If something came up, that’s cool. I’ll still be available until ______. Otherwise, let me know, and we can reschedule.”

      1. leslie knope*

        still no call or explanatory email an hour later, so email it is i guess. how annoying. thanks for the tip though!

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think after the 30 minute mark, you can not answer. But I’d also say that after the 10-minute mark, I would’ve emailed to say, “Hi [Name], I know we had a phone interview scheduled at 2pm today, but I’ve yet to hear from you so I wanted to check in and make sure we’re still scheduled to chat. I’ll be available until 2:30pm, but would otherwise love to reschedule.”

    3. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      And depending on what they say, you just got some valuable information about your boss’s view of this position.

      I’m sorry – a meeting ran late so I was not able to call. How is 2pm tomorrow?
      VS
      I’m sorry – I was in a car accident and I feel so bad that I couldn’t let anyone know to contact you! I hope you are still interested in the position. How is 2pm tomorrow?

  131. LabMonkey*

    I could use some practical advice around days worked and taking insurance from work when you intend to leave asap.

    I started a new job in February, which is okay on some fronts (pay, job duties, insurance), and terrible on others (hours). During the interview, I was misled about the days and hours, how the schedule is created, and some other minor things. In reality, I work 12+ hour days more than not (record so far is 14.5), I get my schedule a week and a half in advance, and I rarely have 2 consecutive days off. I’m looking for work again, as I can’t do this forever and no reasonable employer is going to be put off, I hope, by wanting out of these conditions!

    I have two concerns.

    1: I’m coming up on my 60 day review where I can accept or refuse their insurance. It’s good, and would cover me for a procedure I’ve been putting off due to the cost for years. (Think $10k surgery for $250 copay.) But…I want out. I’m covered by an okay to good exchange plan for my state, which doesn’t have this specific benefit but it otherwise fine. I shouldn’t take the job insurance, right?

    2: Due to a disability, I’m not capable of doing this schedule long term. I could probably handle the hours if I had consistent days off, and the hours are non-negotiable. I sent a written request for a schedule accommodation to my manager two weeks ago and have heard nothing. How hard should I push to get it fixed?

    I’ve had interviews elsewhere but no offers yet, so I’m here until I collapse on the job or get something else. Having a better schedule would help me do it longer, but I don’t know if it’s worth fighting for if I hope to leave within three months. Help?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Take the insurance. Why not? You have no guarantees that you’ll get another position soon, and in the meantime, you can get that procedure done. It’s not bad faith.

      1. LabMonkey*

        I guess I’m more worried that I’ll need to switch back to the exchange, which sounds…tedious.

        1. Observer*

          Sure, that would be tedious. But that’s a whole lot better than having to put off medical treatment. And, let’s face it, as long as you are there and suffering, you should take advantage of whatever you can.

          As for your disability, if it’s qualified under the ADA, you should push. Be very explicit that you are requesting an ADA accommodation.

    2. i'm anon*

      If you receive a subsidy for your Exchange plan, you will likely lose that subsidy if you are offered job-based insurance and turn it down. (You may not lose the subsidy right away, but employers and insurance carriers do have to report offer-of-coverage information to the IRS now, so you may be liable for paying back the amount of the subsidy on your 2016 taxes.)

      If you take the job-based insurance and then lose it later, you will be able to re-enroll in an exchange plan.

  132. Jade*

    Resignation question:
    I am planning to soon leave a part time job after about 6 months. The job went awry from day one. I quickly realized some of the policies weren’t as advertised in my interview, that my boss is a control freak, and that it would be difficult to achieve a good work-life balance with all the pressure to put the job first in your life. Also, the company had serious financial problems (and maybe still does) that I was not made aware of. More importantly, I never got the hours I was promised, and my boss gave no help to come up with a full time schedule when I asked. In fact, after my request a very unnecessarily awkward meeting was held in which my peers were even called in to testify against me (to their credit, they all said nice things about me instead). Last but not least, I am changing careers and I just want out of the field I’m in.

    I figure I could just tell my boss the part about changing fields and that should be enough of an excuse, but I really want to let him know how his overbearing behavior, disregard for his employees’ personal time, and his tendency to fudge the truth with employees has played a large role in my decision to leave. It’s worth noting that several other long-time employees just left the company for the same reasons I mentioned, so it’s not just me. I’ve decided that I am going to tell him some of this (so don’t bother talking me out of it), but I’ll break it to him in a polite and professional manner. What is the best way to approach this. Should I give him specific feedback, or should I just say in a general sense “I’m leaving because I’m changing fields, but I’ll be honest that some aspects of the company played a role in my decision”?

    1. S0phieChotek*

      No specific advice; I agree the changing fields is possible (if it’s true) etc. Mainly wanted to post and commiserate about peers being asked to “testify” (against you); glad they said nice things instead.

      1. Jade*

        Oh my goodness they looked so uncomfortable sitting there. I can;t believe my boss did that to me AND them.

    2. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      From a career change perspective, be ready to talk about it for years to come. I have been in my new career for *longer* than I ever was in my old career and I still have to address the career change and show how my skills transferred in *every single* job interview. Even internal promotions!

      Also, I would not quit without another job lined up. I also would not tell them why they suck – that’s not going to achieve anything. Just wait until you have another job and provide your notice. Then if HR schedules an exit interview you can explain some of the factual reasons: such as you were never given full time hours as discussed in your interview.

      1. Jade*

        I already have another job, which is why I’m finally ready to leave. And as I’ve been interviewing lately, I’ve been getting a lot of practice explaining how many skills transfer to a new line of work. I’ll have it down pat soon.

        1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

          Good. Just be sure to brush up on that answer for why the career change. Every single time. That is something that surprised me once I reached the point of having more years out of my *original* career than my current one. But it still got brought up even in my internal interview at this company. We are talking 5 years later.

    3. Mockingjay*

      Your boss will be a reference in future jobs. As tempting and satisfying it would be to tell him what you really think of him, it could burn a bridge. Keep it cordial and just state the first reason: you are changing fields.

  133. Anonyby*

    So next week I’m going to a Brunch-n-Learn at the request of my boss, one that’s being run by an association that my boss and most/all of our contractors are members of.

    Any tips? This is my first time going to one of these. I’m used to representing the office/company as a receptionist, rather than in this capacity.

    1. FridayTired*

      Assuming you aren’t presenting, are you there to learn or to promote your company?

      If you are just there to learn then be engaged, listen, be prepared to talk about the subject, even have a question or two for the presenter, but you don’t really have to ask. If there is a group activity be interested in those around you, be careful what you share about your company (if you aren’t sure what to share, stick to listening and you can learn a lot).

      If you are there to represent your company I’d definitely talk to your boss and see what they expect you to do/say, and find out if there will be others there.

      1. Anonyby*

        I’ll be there to learn. It’s about new tech that can help those in our line of business, how it works and what can be done with it. I would be helping our contractors with it if we adopted any of the tech.

        1. my two cents*

          Bring lots of cards, a nice-looking notebook, a really good pen, and keep your phone on silent/no-vibrate. If your company is well known in the industry, people will be trying to pick you out as the new delegate, so be prepared to give the ‘new hire’ spiel a few times.

  134. HardwoodFloors*

    My question is: can you find out what a former manager is telling a perspective employer? Said former manager is from three jobs ago and about four years ago. I am not really a job hopper, said jobs during the four years have been with temp agencies but one company went out of business (not former managers) so references/employment checks possibilities are few in number. So my question is can former manager from four years ago bad mouth me? And should I get someone to check what said manager is saying about me and what are the mechanics of doing that? Do I have someone call former manager with their caller ID blocked? I don’t really know how to go about this.

    1. katamia*

      I’ve heard people talk about getting friends to call and ask about you as if they were potential employers. I also think I’ve heard about companies that do this, although I don’t know how reputable those would be. I’ve never felt like I needed to do that, though, so I don’t have any personal experience with that.

    2. AnotherFed*

      If you suspect the manager is bad mouthing you, have a friend call and check. I would not block caller ID for that, nor have them lie. They can simply say “This is {Their Name} calling to do a reference check on HardwoodFloors. Do you have a few minutes for me to ask you a few questions about your experience managing HardwoodFloors?” and then ask some typical reference check questions.

    3. Graciosa*

      The other aspect is what you can do if you go to all this trouble and find out your former manager is giving you a bad reference.

      The answer is likely to be not much, other than to minimize the damage by providing other references who can vouch for your work at that time.

      You can call and try to address a bad reference with the individual directly (your prospects of success will vary a lot depending on what kind of person the former manager is).

      Many people believe that you can stop a bad reference by claiming defamation, but that is extraordinarily hard to do. Truth and many opinions are usually not actionable.

      “I wasn’t impressed with his performance, [opinion] and he missed his sales targets more than once [fact if true]” isn’t going to get very far as a defamation claim, but it doesn’t help your job search. Alternative references might.

      Good luck.

  135. March*

    Tomorrow I write the last exam of my engineering degree – this time tomorrow I’m going to be done! Very excited, even if I haven’t found a post-graduation job yet, I’m just excited to be out of school.

  136. Alize*

    I need help with a script for a discussion with my supervisors about how they’re handling my schedule.

    So a few months ago I was switched to working four days a week for cost-saving reasons, and Thursday is my regular day off. It’s been hard for me to fit five days of work into four, especially when Thursday feels like Saturday and Friday feels like Monday, but I do the best I can and haven’t complained. Now I have a family medical appointment on the last Friday of April, and a weekend trip starting the first Friday of May, and I’ve requested paid time off for both those days. (Unfortunate timing, I know, but the vacation was scheduled in November and the medical appointment is semi-urgent matter and the practice has limited appointment dates; neither can be changed.) I wrote a note on my time off request that instead of taking a paid day, work Thursday one of those weeks instead. It seemed like an obvious win-win to me – I get more done and save a vacation day, they get to pay me for working instead of for not working – but I guess my supes didn’t see it that way because they wrote back that I couldn’t switch. I realize they have the right to schedule me how they see fit, and I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to be hostile to their authority, but I would like to bring up my concern that I’m not getting enough time to work on my projects. I believe they are only thinking in terms of customer service coverage, and not taking into account the other work I do – or maybe they feel like I’m trying to “cheat” with my vacation days, or selfishly grab for extra money, I don’t know.

    So as for wording, right now I’m thinking of saying, “I’m concerned about having three day weeks for two weeks in a row, because I’m worried I will fall behind on my projects and it will take me a long time to catch up. Is that a concern you share?” and leaving it there whatever they say. Does that sound good? Or is this even something I should address? I expect to start job hunting in six months, and I’m always happier to avoid a confrontation ;), and maybe I’m being totally unreasonable here! But in the meantime I’d like to feel like my work is respected, or at least have a clear view of my supervisors’ priorities, although I suspect I might already have one. Thoughts? Am I overreacting?

    (And if I do have the conversation – I have two supervisors and they handle scheduling together, one of them is off Fridays. Should I mention to the supervisor who’s here today that I’d like to talk about this, knowing that she’ll want to discuss it with her co-supervisor, or say nothing until Monday when they’ll both be here?)

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Something about the line “is that a concern you share?” rubs me the wrong way. It sounds…I don’t know, condescending or aggressive or something, somehow. If you want to bring this up with them, I think I’d frame it as, how can we work together to resolve this problem?

      1. Alize*

        Thank you for replying. That line seemed a little off to me too, but I wasn’t sure how to further improve it* – your phrasing is much better!

        *(My first draft went “but if you don’t feel the same way, then never mind. :)” so, it wasn’t hard to go up from there, but I know ‘better’ isn’t the same as ‘good’.)

    2. LCL*

      You are combining two issues that are related but aren’t the same. The first is your schedule was compressed. Every compressed schedule is a benefit to management. Employees agree to these schedules because they receive some benefit, or they have no choice. You are saving the company money. If you are there less net hours, some work will be left undone. This is what your meeting should be about. This could actually be handled by email instead of a meeting. Don’t feel guilty about jobs left undone, your company made the choice to cut your hours.

      Second issue is your paid time off. You requested it, they approved it. You are contributing to breaking down conditions by suggesting to give up a day off because you are taking time off. Don’t do this! in general, employees who suggest schedule changes to minimize pto after the time has been approved are seen as manipulative and flaky. Take your pto without guilt.

      1. LCL*

        And if I read your letter correctly, they split your work week Monday to Wednesday, Thursday off and work Friday? They are screwing you. Be professional, and don’t feel guilty.

  137. Thyri*

    I need an attitude adjustment. I’m THISCLOSE to becoming a problem employee. I’m seething with resentment about my company wanting me to do perfectly reasonable things. Does anyone have any advice that helped them “suck it up” and perform highly when they had unreasonable attitude problems causing them to get in their own way?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Make sure you’re managing your stress levels in your personal life. Consider exercise, meditation, even therapy if it’s that bad. Find practical ways to work to your stress and attitude.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Ultimately it’s about who you want to be, both professionally and personally. Do you want to be known as someone who’s calm, reasonable, reasonably easy to coexist with, and practical? Or as someone who is not? And even aside from what you’re known as, who do you want to be?

    3. Jillociraptor*

      I found that my own levels of resentment decreased the more I sought to understand the why behind what was swirling around me. Often, when I work with other people who are “problem employees,” they willfully choose not to understand context. They expect others to bend to their will, without them adjusting anything at all.

      So, you might think about ways to broaden your context.

      First, can you be very specific about what you’re feeling? Are you feeling unappreciated, unrecognized, anonymous? Any of these things can make totally normal requests feel awful, but if you can name it, you can be more mindful of disrupting the thought pattern. Or maybe you’re feeling anxiety or depression, and you need different supports to orient more healthfully to your work.

      Second, once you can name what you’re feeling, you can think about ways to gather more information to help you put that in context. Let me give you an example. I work in a gigantic university where it often feels like I could put in my absolute best effort every single day, and make ZERO impact no matter how hard I try. The bureaucracy will always tear you down. It’s really frustrating. But, I’ve been able to learn more about how decisions do get made, what kinds of things influence the people above me in their actions, and what kinds of external pressures face our University. That means that when someone above me makes a decision that makes my work harder, I can have a more holistic appreciation of what probably led them to make that decision. That doesn’t mean I agree with their perspective–I often don’t!–but it helps me accept what I can’t change, focus on what I can, and view my environment less as a swirling vortex of random crappiness and more as an ecosystem that I need to build my skills and networks to operate within.

      Often when we feel resentment, it’s because we feel powerless–whether that’s true or not–so an important way to resolve feelings of resentment is to figure out how to gain back more feelings of power. Some people do that in really maladaptive ways, by being difficult to work with or being jerks to others, and some are able to do it in more productive ways, by understanding their environment, focusing on what’s in their locus of control, and cultivating a flexible mindset. I can guarantee that people in the latter category are happier :)

      Good luck with navigating this. It isn’t a fun feeling to have.

      1. Thyri*

        Thanks, everyone. I know I was vague in my original post. I didn’t want to bore everyone with the details. To be clear, I’m not radiating attitude, yet, but I can feel myself getting there and I know it’s my own fault. I’m bored at work. I used to be excited by my job, but lately the more tedious aspects are overshadowing the interesting parts. I worry that I’m acting “entitled” and I don’t want to be that person.

        1. AnotherTeacher*

          To start, acknowledging your state of mind already puts you ahead of this problem. Good for you! Since you’re bored, are there ways for you to take on new responsibilities? If so, that will help. If not, what opportunities are there outside your job where you can feel more fulfilled?

    4. Joanna*

      I could be way off base here, but is it possible that there’s other things going on in your life that are colouring how you engage at work? I’ve found that when I’m angry at someone outside work or dealing with disappointments in my personal life, it’s easy to unconsciously bring the negativity and angst to work. Also consider whether it’s possible you could be depressed, not getting enough sleep or otherwise not in good physical health as any of those can contribute to normal, reasonable tasks feeling overwhelming and frustrating

  138. Nethwen*

    If you read this list of job duties for a position in an office of 5 FTE employees, what would you think the job title should be? Thanks in advance.

    Answers phones and answers basic questions, referring caller to other employee as appropriate
    Assists in records retention (shredding, deleting, etc. after Records Manager gives approval and recording appropriately)
    Ensures time sheets are turned in on time (doesn’t verify accuracy, just makes sure they get turned in on time)
    Files paper documents
    Opens mail
    Organizes documents/files, including creating a filing system when needed
    Processes invoices to send to financial department (entering which code each invoice, or part of an invoice, goes to; physically delivering invoices to financial department)
    Scans and digitally files documents
    Schedules meeting room
    Verifies packing slips and maintains related records

    Other than answering phones, the majority of the work time is spent on processing invoices, organizing files, and records management. Dealing with invoices and packing slips is the biggest reason this position was created.

  139. Saladfork*

    We’re hiring to replace the employee from hell who finally resigned before she was pushed (labor laws in my country make it near impossible to fire anyone). This person was toxic and tried to ruin the company from within and as their Manager I had a year of misery and lost sleep trying to navigate the horror of working with them. We’re in a smallish town.

    Fast forward and we’re interviewing and we meet a candidate who isn’t the best on paper but is very engaging in person (and that matters in our business!). They won the hearts of the other two interviewers and although I liked them in person on paper they’re nowhere near the top of the pile and a couple of their answers during the interviewer left me concerned. From doing some digging I find out they’re facebook friends with the employee from hell and seem to be quite good friends.

    I know that in of itself isn’t a reason not to hire them but I feel on balance we have better candidates in the pool. The other interviewers (who are external and won’t be working with/managing this person) think I’m being unreasonable. What do you guys think?

    2. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I do not see them being friends as a problem. The way someone acts at work and when they are in their comfort zone doing fun things with their friends can be really different. That’s why I hesitate to recommend friends for jobs – because I do not know how they are to work with.

      Also facebook probably isn’t a great indicator of someone’s friendship level. Maybe the problem employee is “that friend” who you just find it easier to like/accept their shares than actively attempt to block them. Maybe the problem employee is really, really, fun to drink with! Who knows. Why does it matter?

      If you have other concerns about their candidacy then push that, but I do not see how their personal friends have any bearing on how they will perform in this role.

    3. Rubyrose*

      Follow your gut. You have better candidates in the pool and concerns about interview answers.

  140. So Very Anon*

    I really screwed up and I’m letting my shame at this screw up keep me from possibly fixing it.

    I had been working for the last 2.5 years as a remote independent contractor for Teapots R Us. The job was okay, but not the most enthralling and I was severely underpaid considering I was a 1099 employee. Anyway, a 6 month contract position that I was perfect for came along and I accepted it; because of the paperwork involved, I accepted it a full 4 weeks before my start date.

    Since this was a short term contract, I really wanted to remain on good terms with my contract gig, whether that was continuing to work with them part time on the side or taking a hiatus until the new contract. Even if that wasn’t an option I wanted to be a professional and do the professional thing. I fully intended to give them two to three weeks of notice (there was nothing in my initial contract with them about a notice period), but I ended up……not. For some reason, even though I KNEW that I had to tell them about the change in my circumstances, I just didn’t. Until the night before I was starting my new job. In an email where I implied that I would still be working for them for the next week and a half.

    There was a fair amount of chaos in my life the last two weeks before I started the new job and a lot of uncertainty (since resolved!) about my living situation for the week or so following, but that’s not really the reason I didn’t do the professional thing. It was really more a combination of fear of the unknown/change, fear of them saying “No,” feeling guilty (even though I knew I shouldn’t!) about leaving during an incredibly busy time, and simply my own people-pleasing nature and fear of disappointing or inconveniencing anyone.

    I’ve been so stressed out and angry and ashamed by how I behaved, that I haven’t been able to bring myself to contact them again. For the first week or so I probably could have blamed it on the chaos going on and the fact that my computer was in the shop, but on Monday it will be 6 WEEKS!!! I don’t know how I could possibly explain why I flat out ghosted them. This whole situation is mortifying and keeps me up at night. I really want to deal with it, but I’m not sure if there’s even any point of apologizing now or what the best approach would be.

    I know this is pretty late in the day and I mostly wanted to just actually admit all of this out loud (sort-of) to other people so I’m not carrying it all bottled up inside of me, but if anyone has advice or perspective that would be very welcome!

    1. LibbyG*

      I don’t have any advice. Just a big ol internet hug and a virtual tumbler of bourbon from one people-pleaser to another.

    2. Colette*

      You will feel better once you contact them and apologize.

      Do you owe them outstanding work? If so, you need to figure that piece out, but regardless, you need to get in touch.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      As someone who has done my own share of stupid things, the best you can do here is apologize and expect nothing in return. There is something about apologizing, though. It can be freeing. But more importantly, it makes us accountable to ourselves, when we clean up our own messes. Holding ourselves accountable makes us less likely to do Dumb Thing in the future.

      And you do have choices. You can let shame eat you up OR you can decide how you will prevent something similar from happening in the future. I vote for the latter. You will survive, I can vouch for that.

  141. Ad Astra*

    So, I work in advertising but my function (proofreader) is pretty isolated. I don’t see ideas until they’re about the presented to clients, I have no input about concepts or strategies or clients or accounts. Which is fine, but I wish I had a better understanding of how my agency and the advertising business work.

    Can I ask to sit in on some meetings? Is that totally weird? I don’t necessarily have anything to contribute to those meetings, so it would really be more for my own education than anything else. My workload right now is quite low and this seems like a reasonably productive way to spend my time.

    1. katamia*

      I don’t think it would be weird, especially if knowing the context of what you’re given could potentially improve your work quality. (Not trying to say that there’s anything wrong with your work quality now, just that there’s almost always room for improvement with something like proofreading, in my experience.)

    2. Thyri*

      I started my career as an advertising proofreader. I think your idea is totally fine! I used to be part of the meetings with the people who designed the ads, so I had a better idea of who was working on what.

  142. TCO*

    Broadly speaking, do you think people are more likely to get promotions through internal means or through taking new external jobs? I know it varies by company and industry, but I’m curious about what patterns people see.

    I’m about 8 years into my career, and I feel like my last few jobs have all been lateral moves. I’m not seeing (much less getting) opportunities for more advanced titles. Sometimes I’ve been given more responsibility within a role, but not more pay or anything else to reflect my growth, and my current job actually feels like a demotion in comparison to prior jobs. Sometimes I wonder if the problem is that I haven’t stayed at any job long enough yet to get promoted. In general, could that be true?

    1. Laura*

      I work in higher ed. At my particular institution, you do best if you stick with the institution and move up in various ways. Some people stay in my department and advance (my plan) but others find interesting positions outside of this department, but within the institution. By leaving the university for another one, you’re detaching yourself from the contacts/reputation you’ve acquired, so most people don’t do that.

    2. AnotherFed*

      I’m government, so my answer depends on how you define internal. In general, getting experience with different areas within our particular location, or even a temporary detail elsewhere, helps your case. However, it’s important to make those moves so that you’re getting experience with progressively larger scope/responsibility (even if the title and $ doesn’t catch up), not just repeating 1-2 years of experience over and over. Our basic rule of thumb with any new job is that you spend the first year coming up to speed and learning how to do it, the second doing the job as you’ve been taught, and the third year is when you’re rocking it and racking up the achievements that propel you to the next job.

      1. TCO*

        I’m currently at a public university, so both of your responses are helpful. “Repeating 1-2 years of experience over and over” perfectly describes my current job–it’s only challenging because I’m new to the job and the field, not because the work really puts my best skills to the test or helps me grow towards higher-level positions.

    3. Liza*

      TCO, my general impression is that it’s easier to get a promotion internally, but easier to get a salary bump externally. So one might be hired as a Teapot Coordinator at Chocolate Teapots, then get a promotion with a small raise to Teapot Coordination Manager, then (when one feels it’s time to move on) get a job at Vanilla Teapots with the same Teapot Coordination Manager title but a larger salary.

      I’m reading others’ responses interestedly!

  143. Anon for this*

    How do you stay positive in your job search when you are underpaid and undervalued? I do a good job, sales reps and customers like me & sing my praises to the owner, and I’m still well below lowest market value for my salary. I brought it up to him but he gave me a very small raise. The company is dysfunctional beyond anything I’ve seen in my years so I am trying to get a new job, but until then it’s like going to prison everyday. To pour salt in the wound, he hired an arrogant abrasive manager who does almost no helping out in the office ( was part of the job) and loudly complains that she has nothing to do. She even admitted that she wanted to be paid more! It will take 6-7 years min of annual cost of living increases for me to match her current salary and I & others work hard while she does nothing. Morale is down in the office. I keep telling myself not to walk out. This is awful.

    1. Graciosa*

      Chump Lady on her (totally unrelated) blog about cheating exes describes this as getting to “Meh!”

      You have to get yourself to a mental and emotional place where the stuff that is bothering you just isn’t a big deal because it doesn’t really have anything to do with you.

      In the situations on her blog, it’s mostly about getting to the point when hearing about your ex doesn’t set you off – he’s just not your problem and not a part of your life.

      You need to do this mentally in the work place. If you’re looking for a new job, you may be able to convince yourself that your current one doesn’t matter enough to get upset about. Why should it when you’re leaving at the first good opportunity?

      Abrasive manager is complaining again? That will be a funny story one day to share with your new co-workers.

      Owner is pinching pennies again? You’ll look back with a sense of amusement at how petty he was.

      This stuff is irritating you because you’re still emotionally invested in your current work place. When you truly let it go you won’t be nearly as upset.

      Can you pretend you’re just a temp who is not sure when the assignment will end? You kind of are. As a temp, you care that you behave well while you’re there in ways that preserve your professional reputation, but you leave the crazy stuff in the office when you walk out the door.

      Making up your mind to change the way you think is hard, but it can be done. In this case, it will help preserve your mental health until you can leave – your angst about this is hurting you a lot more than anyone else.

      Good luck.

      1. Op*

        Wow, I really needed to hear those words. I didn’t think of it that way. I guess I am still invested in the place because if I wasn’t, these things wouldn’t get to me. I do often tell myself that it’s not my company and its not my place to fix it. There have been so many bad top management decisions there and the long term employees are just used to feeling discouraged and stuck there, thinking they won’t find anything better. It’s a really sad situation. I don’t intend to be one of them though so yes, I am like a temp. Can’t thank you enough for your advice to help me change my mind set.

  144. Ruthie*

    I would love some insight on giving a bad reference, and if it’s ethical to give a bad reference after previously agreeing to be a good reference. I recently coached a report out of the office for poor performance. To help encourage her to seek new opportunities, I agreed to be a positive reference. When they called, I highlighted her positive attributes.

    Less than a week after starting her new position at a new organization, she decided to apply to a different job elsewhere. The community we work in is small, so I happen to know that she will be interviewed next week. She hasn’t approached me to be a reference, and if she does I will decline, but I would not be surprised to get a call. If I do, is it really ethical to give a bad reference after agreeing recently to give a positive one, even if not for this specific position? Should I only agree to confirm employment dates? Or should I be honest about the concerns we had?

    1. katamia*

      I don’t think it’s unethical. Your perception has changed because the circumstances have changed. If she asks you to be a reference again, I’d be honest with her about your concerns (I’m assuming that the short length of her stay at the new position is one of the reasons you’re feeling less good about giving her a positive recommendation) and see if she still wants you to serve as a reference. If you get a call, whether or not she’s spoken with you, definitely be honest in answering the questions you’re asked, but if you’re feeling bad about the change in how positive your reference would be, then you don’t have to volunteer information that they don’t ask about.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Has something changed? Did you learn something new about her?

      If something has changed, I would reach out to her and let her know that you will be an honest reference, but—because of the recent change—you won’t be the most glowing, even though you will certainly highlight whatever positives you can.

      If nothing has changed, then I wouldn’t say anything to her about it, and then just give an honest reference, including both positives and negatives.

      I don’t believe references are supposed to be either “There’s absolutely nothing negative I can say about this employee” or “There’s absolutely nothing positive I can say about this employee” (with a few rare exceptions). It can be generally positive while acknowledging flaws of the former employee or generally negative while acknowledging merits of the former employee. In fact, the latter two scenarios are the most helpful to a hiring manager. Nuance is always better than exaggeration.

      1. Graciosa*

        I think this is a much better approach.

        Quality references are not “good” or “bad” as binary terms.

        If you agreed to give a “good” reference because you fired a long time, competent employee you just didn’t like when you were hired as her boss, I do think it would be unethical to just start *only* saying she was fired.

        This is the right time to remember to treat people as you would wish to be treated.

    3. Joanna*

      I think it would be kinder to tell her now “I’m sorry to have to do this, but I’ve decided I’d prefer not to continue providing a reference for you. I hope you can find someone else who is appropriate” than providing a reference dramatically different to what she thought you would be providing.

    4. Observer*

      I’m with Joana. You made a commitment to her, and you did it to benefit yourself. On the other hand, a dishonest reference is not a good idea for many reas0ns. So, at minimum, you need to not blindside her by not providing the reference you promised.

  145. Anxa*

    I finally hit literal BEC stage with a coworker.

    She works in a student computer lab attached to my office. She hums everyday. I don’t understand why anyone thinks humming is acceptable at work, but it’s especially egregious in a room where people are trying to do work. (She also lets students blast their headphones)

    Then everything about her started to bother me. Mostly her pace. She moves around the office with the deliberation of a drunk iceberg. I’ve never seen someone stretch out 20 minutes worth of work into an entire day so effectively.

    I was in full eye-twitch mode every time she shuffled by or started making those horrible noises, and right at that moment when I thought I couldn’t take it anymore, she starts eating crackers. Loudly. Slowly. Obnoxiously. And I started to laugh to myself.

    I’ve been able to tolerate her much better, once I had my little laugh about my getting to literal BEC stage, so thank you all!

    1. Doriana Gray*

      LMAO! Been there. Just the sound of this person breathing pissed me off. But it eventually fades once you start laughing at yourself.

  146. Kylynara*

    My mom told us recently that she is retiring and it got me thinking. What is the difference between retiring and just quitting (legally, procedurally, etiquette-wise, etc.) From either the company or employee perspective) She doesn’t have a pension, just 401k/IRA type stuff.

    1. Megs*

      What kind of legal stuff are you thinking? In terms of qualifying for unemployment benefits, I don’t think there’d be a difference between quitting and retiring – in both cases you left voluntarily and are ineligible.

      1. Kylynara*

        I don’t really know. The answer very well could be there’s no difference. I know the difference in definition, and if there’s a pension you obviously wouldn’t start drawing on it if you merely quit, but I realized I didn’t really know of any difference between the two otherwise. It seemed like there probably is something. I couldn’t figure out how to word it in a way where Google could help, so I asked here.

    2. NicoleK*

      At Old Job, a direct report retired. She had been with the company for a little over 11 years. It was treated like a voluntary resignation. She gave notice. Per her request, I sent out the email announcing her resignation. She did an exit interview. Company threw her a nice retirement party and she rode off into the sunset.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      For an IRA, you have to be at least 59.5 years old, I believe. For social security, you have to be at least 66 or 67, depending on your birth year. So if you quit when you’re 58, you may “retire,” but you won’t actually reap any retirement financial benefits.

      1. All Hail Queen Sally*

        You can take early social security at age 62 (for a lesser amount) but then are limited on how much you can earn if you get another job.

  147. Anansi*

    I need to leave my current job (more below). The problem is I’ve only been here a little over a year, and left my last job after a little over a year too. I know we talk a lot about job hopping here, but what are readers’ best tips on how to handle it when the situation isn’t avoidable?

    Why I need to leave: Last year, I got an amazing opportunity at a place that was not just my dream job – in my field it is basically everyone’s dream job. And it was great! But in October the head of the organization left, and took most of the senior staff with him. The new leadership is TERRIBLE. None of them are experienced in our areas, and they’re extremely distrustful of the holdover staff. So basically they can’t do their jobs and won’t take advice. Here’s an example: We are responsible for three very big projects for April. In January when my new boss started, I sent her a memo and had a discussion with her about the projects and told her all of the things she would need to make decisions on. She said she’d handle it, and would let me know if she needed anything from me. Fast forward to March, when HER boss is like, “where’s all the stuff for the projects?” and she panicked and made me do all of it. In one afternoon. Even though we had three whole months to prepare. This happens basically every day to a varying extent, and I don’t see it getting better. So, any advice on how to handle this would be helpful, but also any advice on how to handle the transition after such a short time period. Thank you!

    1. Graciosa*

      I’m struggling a bit with this one, because I don’t see a disorganized and procrastinating boss as necessarily a reason to leave a job early when you don’t yet have a solid track record to fall back on.

      It’s even riskier because if you explain you left your previous job for this job – your dream job – and then leave your dream job, you may appear to future hiring managers as a little flighty, lacking self awareness, or having unrealistic expectations. All of these are red flags to a hiring manager.

      Please understand I’m *not* saying that is the case. I’m warning you that you will have a perception problem getting hired by good managers until this is fixed.

      I can’t even come up with a helpful explanation for leaving this job because most people have dealt with someone in the work place who procrastinates and causes a lot of last minute fire drills. While your situation may be a more extreme version and more serious, identifying that as an issue may cause the hiring manager to worry that you can’t cope with what is unfortunately a fairly normal problem in the work place.

      It sounds like you’ve been trying to do a good job managing the issue while you’re there, and providing the project information early on in both a memo and a conversation was a good strategy.

      If this is happening every day, it may be time to name the pattern and try to address it that way.

      “Boss, when you don’t provide me with the information I need to prepare our projects ahead of time, I have to scramble at the last minute to provide something. It troubles me that the quality of the work suffers because we don’t have enough time to put it together properly or follow our standard processes for quality review. I fear that our clients may form a poor opinion of what we can offer.

      “I have tried to ensure that you know what we need by providing a written memo and reviewing our upcoming projects in person, but that doesn’t seem to be effective. Is there something else I can do that will help you feel comfortable with deciding A, B, and C further in advance of our deadlines?”

      You might also try the book Managing UP! or other “how to manage your boss” references for more ideas, although you may not be able to change her behavior. In that case, I would be focusing on damage control (documentation, preserving my reputation, and lining up references for work she wasn’t able to sabotage) until I could get out without putting my future employability at risk.

      If you are able to get another job with only short tenures on your job history, please vet it very carefully, and go into understanding that you will need to stay in that one at least three years.

      Good luck.

  148. Stephanie*

    I’m getting in late, so this may get buried! I just made my graduate school decision–I’ll be headed to Carnegie Mellon in the fall with a full ride to pursue an MS in Mechanical Engineering. I also had a great offer from UW-Madison, so I have some anxiety that I’ve made a giant mistake. :) But onward!

    2. Laura*

      Congratulations! A friend of mine from high school went to Carnegie Mellon and he LOVED it. I’m sure you’ll have an amazing experience as well!

    5. Anansi*

      That is awesome! I grew up near Carnegie Mellon and had a lot of friends who went there for grad school. I think you will love it.

    11. Graciosa*

      Wow – that is amazing and fantastic news. I am so pleased for you – you must be absolutely thrilled!

      Forget the anxiety, though, because whether you took the annuity or the lump sum payment, you still won the lottery!

      Celebrate and enjoy the moment –

    14. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’m late to this party, but congratulations!!!! That’s wonderful! People I know love Carnegie Mellon, it’s a great school, Pittsburgh is a great city (so I hear), and a full ride? That is so awesome.

  149. Jillociraptor*

    I’m really interested in improving my ability to speak off the cuff. I know, I know, Toastmasters, but I have was-an-honors-student-fear-of-failure and can’t practice things I’m bad at in front of people. Any books, podcasts, resources, tips for independent practice that you can share?

    1. Stephanie*

      Taking improv classes actually really helped me. (Don’t worry if you don’t consider yourself “funny”!).

      1. Tamsin*

        I’ve heard improv is especially helpful in learning how to be awesome at pitching ideas too (screenwriters pitching movie ideas was the context specifically — being awesome on your toes in 10 minutes or less, and taking alternatives tossed at you on the spot and working with them). But really, it should work for becoming more confident in any kind of off-the-cuff speaking.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Independent practice sounds….counter intuitive for improving this skill. You can’t learn how to speak off-the-cuff by reading about it. It’s like practicing for a fight in your head. It never goes as well in real life as it did in your head. Most of the skill is in recalling your salient details in the face of nerves/pressure. You just can’t recreate that on your own.

      Pick a friend you trust, who you can embarrass yourself in front of, and ask that person to help you practice a variety of scenarios.

    3. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I actually did not find toastmasters very useful for improving my ability to speak off the cuff. It’s great for helping you deliver awesome prepared speeches, but it was not useful in terms of improving my small talk so I quit the program.

      What I have found useful is to forgive myself not being a great small-talker and to remind myself to limit it to 1 to 2 sentences of attempted small talk and then to walk away. In addition giving myself 5 seconds, or simply starting with, that’s a great question … and pausing to allow myself to provide an answer is really helpful.

      Hope I helped! I’m a straight A achiever like you who hates to fail, so it was hard to learn to forgive myself.

      1. Shell*

        I had the opposite experience–I really enjoyed Table Topics in Toastmasters, but hated the prepared speeches! Mind, part of that was because I felt five minute speeches really dull when my life didn’t have anything interesting to talk about. (And that group was composed of mostly older professionals, so I really didn’t have anything to talk about to them.)

    5. AnotherTeacher*

      It depends on what the “off the cuff” situation is and what your concerns are, but I’ve found that knowing my material really well eases my anxiety about “off the cuff” speaking at meetings, in classes, or in presentations. Of course, in all three, there is an expected level of preparation, but there are also always unexpected questions, comments, or reactions.

      For example, if I’ve planned to discuss X, I consider how it might be misinterpreted, what it might be confused with, what are arguments against it, etc. as applicable. So, if I get an oddball question, I’m ready. Or, I can very confidently say that I don’t know about Y in terms of X, but A, B, and C are always true.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      A friend practiced in front of the mirror. I am not sure where she got topics from but it helped her a lot.

  150. Nervous Accountant*

    This just happened: I was walking out for a break when an upset client dropped by. And I don’t think I handled it in the best way….I helped him, and reassured him, but I was really struggling to keep my tone welcoming and friendly.

    Generally, clients have ot make an appointment to speak or see us and in the case of local clients, they have to let us know if they will be coming in. I’ve explained the process to this client many times but he it doesn’t seem like he understands or cares. Obviously, we try to accommodate them as much as possible (like if they come in, we can’t refuse to see them obv). This client in particular is quite difficult.

    Maybe (hopefully) it wasn’t that bad and it’s more in my mind than in real.

    On another note, how do you guys deal with clients who are 1. angry and 2. LIE? Unahppy clients I understand, but the ones who totally lie? Another client said that she had to chase us around for information when we had it in email and writing that that was not the case. Even if we have proof, I feel like it won’t matter, “the customer is always right.”

    I love my job but some days it’s hard because of certain people and the fact that someone’s lies can get someone fired, makes me want to hide away.

    1. Colette*

      I’m sure you did fine – perhaps not as well as you could have if you were prepared, but that’s ok.

      As far as customers who lie, be polite and sympathetic. You don’t get points for being right, and it’s not like they’re just going to admit they’re lying.

      “That sounds frustrating”
      “I’ll let my manager know about your experience”

      If necessary, you can be factual and still call them on it (kind of):
      “I’ve checked our records, and I see that …”

    2. Zahra*

      For angry clients, you let them vent, making sympathetic noises. Take notes if necessary. Then address each point.

      For lies, I think Colette has a good strategy in the “our records show that…”

  152. Gandalf the Nude*

    Shout out to my willfully incompetent colleague, who I swear intentionally misinterprets policies and communications, not to benefit himself but to make our lives more difficult; who misinforms, confuses, and upsets his subordinates even after we’ve corrected and recorrected him ten times, so that they’ll be distrustful of us and loyal to him; who complains to his boss of injustices we’ve perpetrated against him over and over, despite our consistent and thorough debunking, wasting everyone’s time with a constant sense of déjà vu. A toast to you, my maligned and malignant associate, for you make me wish I had a drink at 9am on a Tuesday. Salud!

    1. AnotherFed*

      Holy crap, I didn’t know you worked in my office! I really hope that’s the case and there aren’t two of him running around…

  153. MsChanandlerBong*

    I’m currently searching for a full-time job after being a full-time freelancer for 12 years. On one hand, I feel like I don’t have much of a “work history” because I’ve been self-employed all this time, but on the other, I have a lot of skills I wouldn’t have if I hadn’t run my own business all this time (bookkeeping, preparing financial statements, client/customer service, etc.). Should I be applying for higher-level jobs, or should I aim for entry-level jobs since I don’t have proven experience working for one employer?

    * I worked for two clients on a contract basis for three years each. I broke those out separately on my resume because they were long-term assignments.

    1. Graciosa*

      I am not advocating for a skills-based resume, but you might benefit from doing a bit of an informal skills analysis yourself before making a decision based on the job.

      For example, you have presumably worked for 12 years in your core area of expertise (Teapot inspection), so you can legitimately claim that expertise. I would absolutely apply for higher level jobs in Teapot inspection.

      But your experience in other areas (preparing financial statements) may be something you look at differently. Yes, you ran your own business, but what percentage of your time was spent on that? If it was 5%, then you have probably the equivalent of a little over 7 months total experience preparing financial statements – and only for one client. I would not apply for finance jobs looking for 10+ years of experience and try to claim that running my own Teapot inspection business met the qualifications.

      I think this may help you sort out how your skills would be perceived, or at least give you another way to think about how they match up to specific job postings.

      Good luck in your search –

  154. University Officer of Administration*

    Advice pls! I checked the box that says “notify me of follow-up comments via email” –now my inbox is flooding! How can I UNDO my “notify me” … or maybe delete my comment?

    1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I would set up a rule so that each comment goes into a certain folder. Then just don’t check it in the future.

  155. BeatriceP*

    I know that there’s no law saying that employers must give you your vacation, but I’m rather flabbergasted by a situation I’m in. I have been looking to relocate and leave my current company for a while. I just got two in-person interviews out of state, but in the same state. I’m interested in each one for different reasons. I have specific times available for both, and they gave me over 3 wks notice.

    Thing is, my boss won’t approve vacation on a Monday, because one of our PT employees is off and “someone might call in sick.” I work at a library so we do need to staff a desk, and we have enough people to cover shifts if she actually works on the desk. I’ve talked to her supervisor about it and we’re both confused (I’m also angry). I want to get out of this culture, but I literally cannot get the time off to do it!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      someone might call in sick

      Maybe that someone can be you? I don’t usually encourage people to be deceptive, but this is ridiculous. The only other alternatives would be to 1) tell your boss you’re looking, and that’s why you need the time off (based on how your boss is acting, I doubt that’s a good idea) or 2) reschedule your interviews for a time that is approved (not ideal—makes you look a little flaky/difficult).

      I don’t know if you could have anticipated this situation, but in the future, for an out-of-state job search, I’d get the time approved ahead of time, so when your interviews ask when you’ll be in town for an interview, you can say “I’ll be in town the week of ______.”

      1. BeatriceP*

        Oddly enough, my boss’ supervisor sort of encouraged me to call in sick (which is so not my MO)!

        So far, the two companies I’m working with have been very understanding of schedule issues and so forth, but as you said, I do NOT want to come across as flaky. Unfortunately, in my industry, interviewers do not ask when you’d be there, so I can’t pre-plan if I think I aced an interview. They call you back and are like “SURPRISE! Here is your interview time.” Usually I can swing it, but the whole no-vacation-in-case-someone-is-sick-maybe-unknown is really ticking me off.

  156. Grateful in VA*

    A little late today, but I’ve been a regular reader for the past few years and I want to thank all the commenters on your site for all the great advice over the years. I never realized how much I’ve internalized it until recently when I found myself accepting a role in a WTF workplace. After two days, I knew I wanted to resign but I struggled internally because I didn’t want to appear like I had accepted in bad faith. I was up most the night trying to decide what to do when I thought: “Would Katie the Fed or fposte put up with this?” I knew immediately the answer was no and submitted my resignation the next day. It’s comical to me that total strangers on a website had such an influence in my life. This site has really given me a broader perspective and the confidence to make the best (albeit difficult) decisions for my career.

    1. Graciosa*

      They would be thrilled to hear that they made such a difference, and I hope that they (and Alison) see this!

      Congratulations on getting out, and I hope you find the kind of situation you deserve.

    2. Katie the Fed*

      Awwww thank you! This really made my day! I’ve found the blog has the same effect on me – I think I became a much wiser manager over the years because of the great advice!

      I hope you land somewhere much better!

  157. Mimmy*

    So today I attended a lecture about creating employment opportunities for people with disabilities. Some of the ideas the presenter discussed were very good. However, he also mentioned a couple of chestnuts that we here at AAM cringe at, like pushing yourself onto an employer (“So…when can my student come in to job shadow?”) or the old adage “finding a job IS a job”.

  158. So Very Anonymous (Call Me Tacy)*

    Wanted to post this earlier, but bogged down in how to get specific without being identifiable. How do I talk with a longtime collaborator about my preference that we not add a particular third person as a regular collaborator?

    I have a longstanding collaborative relationship with “Betsy” and we’ve done a lot of great projects together. The outreach we do at our university is along the lines of “here’s the kind of thing we can do for you, o instructor,” and then we work with individual instructors on projects. We’ve just finished a big project with an instructor, Winona, which is now morphing into lots more projects and possibly becoming a permanent three-way partnership. It’s not that I mind working with Winona on our usual terms, but over the course of this big project I’ve found Winona challenging to work with and would prefer not to have Winona be a third partner in every project that Betsy and I do moving forward. Again, not saying “I don’t ever want to work with Winona again,” more that I would like to keep the ongoing partnership as just me and Betsy, working with lots of instructors (including Winona!), rather than having it be a three-way partnership where we include Winona on everything.

    But I’m afraid that if I bring this up now, I will look like I’m not able to play well with others, and I also worry that I will damage my longer collaborative relationship with Betsy, which is important to me present- and future-careerwise and personally. Betsy and I need to talk about this, but I’m worried about coming across as a, er, witch for not wanting to work with Winona on all. the. projects.

    Has anyone had experience with collaborative projects and growing pains, especially with expanding (or whether or not to expand) an existing team?

    1. Ultraviolet*

      I can so easily see myself in this situation! I wish I had some better advice. Some questions though:

      1) Is it really feasible that Winona would have time to be in all your projects? It sounds like she’s an instructor and you have a different type of job.

      2) Can you identify some differences between the projects you’ve worked with her on and those you haven’t, and maybe use those differences as a justification for why it doesn’t make sense to expand her role?

      3) In what ways do you find Winona hard to work with? Can you bring some of them up with Betsy without sounding unprofessional?

      1. So Very Anonymous (Call Me Tacy)*

        These are really great questions, thanks!

        I think 1) is really the critical one, since no, I don’t think Winona has the time to do all of this, but she is a graduate student and grad students often feel pressured to take on lots and lots of stuff in order to become marketable. (Been there!) I also don’t think that Betsy or I have the time to do all of it, either! And I think the real conversation that needs to be had is between Betsy and me about whether we are overcommitting ourselves as a team to a lot of big and legitimately exciting ideas without having really thought about the practicality of trying to do alllllll these things, on top of our regular jobs. Betsy, Winona, and I have had lots of fun castle-building conversations about great things we COULD do, but the reality of having done a big project as the three of us is making me apprehensive about how realistic those plans actually are. I think if Betsy and I make ourselves get realistic about what we actually can and can’t do, my concerns about Winona may be much less of an issue. I know I would benefit a lot from a more grounded conversation about how and when we are actually going to do these things — I think this is a case of all three of us being excited talky ENFP-ish types who have lots and lots of ideas but need to do some realistic planning.

        And I should add that Winona being hard to work with on this project was MUCH more a role conflict than a personality conflict: in the project we just did, because of a dynamic Betsy and I inadvertently set up, Winona ended up taking on a lot of what is usually my role, and I ended up kind of just being the administrative person– taking notes, setting up meetings, trying (and failing) to keep meetings within time– and feeling like I was stepping on toes if I played my usual role. So I think Betsy and I may need to talk about how to get ourselves out of that dynamic. Because I like Winona, but I also don’t want to feel like there’s no room for my usual level of contribution — the good mutual back-and-forth has been what I’ve liked about working with Betsy, and about how we talk with instructors. Really, my concern about having her be involved in all of our projects has been about wanting not to feel resentful about losing my role.

        But the more I think this through, the more I think the issue is that Betsy and I need to be more realistic about what we actually want to be doing and how we’ll do that, and then we’ll have clearer ways to think about how we work with Winona. I think right now we’re too caught up in all the fabulous things we COULD do.

        Thanks for the good questions — they were good for thinking!

        1. Ultraviolet*

          I’m glad it helped! :)

          I think the fact that this a role conflict rather than a personality conflict will make conversation a lot easier. I can see how it would make sense to first get clear with Betsy on what your actual plans for the future will be. When you’re clarifying that, I think you can bring up Winona’s role by talking about how you found yourself really aware of the balance between how exciting it is to grow your program and build a relationship with a great student like Winona vs contributing in the way that’s always made your collaboration meaningful and enjoyable to you. Say that in the previous project, you stepped back while Winona did a lot of the things you usually do, but going forward you’ll want to contribute at your usual level. And say you just wanted to check in that that’s consistent with what Betsy’s envisioning.

          [I’m basing that suggestion on my impression that Betsy is senior to you, but not your supervisor or officially your mentor/adviser/etc. If there were a more formal relationship where she had some control over your role, I’d suggest something different–probably directly asking for help in achieving that balance.]

          It sounds like your previous project with Winona was centered around her class or curriculum, but the possible future plans would center around other instructors? If so I think that will help you take back your regular role without that seeming weird.

    2. Graciosa*

      I have had similar experiences, and you cannot say you don’t want to bring Winona onto the team because you found her challenging without looking bad yourself. What you can do is find other positive reasons why you need to do something differently.

      For example, it was so great to have an instructor’s perspective on the specific project that affected her that you want to keep bringing in other instructors for future projects.

      The collaboration was really positive, and you think it could be the start of a program that would provide a lot of benefits; you and Betsy can start sharing your project approach / expertise / beneficial products of project with a lot of instructors who can learn your methods / techniques / what resources are available while you and Betsy learn more about the need for specialized content / other approaches / whatever.

      Push the benefits of doing something else – possibly tempered by concern that you don’t want to waste Winona’s time and energy on projects outside her core area of expertise.

      Keep smiling, and don’t ever criticize Winona.

      The whole scenario reminds me of Marilyn Lovell’s advice to another wife in Apollo 13 as a reporter approached: “Remember, you’re proud, happy, and thrilled.”

      1. So Very Anonymous (Call Me Tacy)*

        Actually, your first two points are exactly what Betsy and I have been doing all along. And my concern has been that we’d end up limiting ourselves to Winona’s particular teaching approach, which is a very interesting approach and we’ve learned a lot from it. Thanks for the great framing — very useful for thinking this one through.

        And I like Winona — I mentioned in my response above that it’s more of a role conflict than a personality issue. I think Betsy and I need to do some planning about what’s realistic for the two of us–and the three of us–to actually do, and that needs to include some neutral discussion of each of our roles. I want us all to be able to contribute.

  159. KtG*

    Guys, my supervisor won’t stop volunteering me for multiple long-term, complex projects, and now I have so many projects on the horizon that I fear for my future health, sanity, and work reputation.

    I am freaking out because (1) I am the only person in my org with the skill set needed to perform these tasks, so my workload has been extremely high since Day 1 on this job; (2) everyone here wears many hats with few resources; and perhaps most importantly, (3) I already plan on looking for another job, but due to the norms of my industry, the job search is guaranteed to take at least 9 months before I receive any offers.

    So my question is, how do I ensure as smooth of a transition as possible for these projects NOW while protecting my sanity as I wait around for a long time to receive an offer? I had a health consultation today, and my health stats have taken a shocking dive since I started this job, so…I simply have to leave and will leave. I just don’t know how to talk to my supervisor about my crazy workload without tipping her off on the fact that I will be leaving (or without giving the impression that I am lazy, just don’t want to work, think I’m “special”, etc; my workplace has an explicit negative “thing” about millennials, it seems).

    1. AnotherFed*

      Have you pointed out what the workload is like (or is going to be, if they haven’t all hit yet) with all of those projects the way they are staggered? It’s not lazy to objectively say “each task x takes 10 hours, on average, so doing 17 projects that each require 10-20 of task X simply can’t fit in a 2 month period.” At that point, you can have a conversation with your boss about whether to defer something to keep the workload reasonable, bring on help to share the workload, improve processes or automation to reduce the time it takes to do tasks, etc. The important part is to raise the discussion in a neutral, matter of fact tone and stick to facts rather than feelings.

    2. Graciosa*

      Work every day as if you won’t be in tomorrow, and need to leave fantastic, perfectly organized documentation for your successor.

      That probably sounds horrible (“I told Graciosa how busy I was, and she suggested *more* work!”) but it will actually pay off if you can manage to keep it up – not only when you give notice, but as you are attempting to juggle all these projects yourself in the interim.

      Figure out how each project should be documented to make it most useful for a successor. Do you organize by sub-parts of a project, by team, or by date? Would a contact list of team members in one place help? A spreadsheet of open action items and due dates? Separate section for formal requests for approval and responses for any items that may require proof or be audited? Would a sharepoint site be an easier method to store, track, and transfer project information than just keeping a lot of emails on your computer?

      It requires a lot of discipline to keep this up (I admit that I keep way too much in email instead of using other options that would help me transition) but it is infinitely easier to save a file correctly to the share drive right after every meeting than it is to try to pull everything together in your notice period.

      Keep weeding the garden every day so you don’t have to take a backhoe to it in order to sell the house.

      Good luck.

  160. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    I am so excited! I just got an offer (and accepted it!) I have been under-employed for the last 4 years and I’m going to be working a “real” full time job that provides benefits. No more marketplace insurance, and I’m going to have a 401(k) with matching! Best week in a good long while :-)

    1. Graciosa*

      Congratulations! That’s definitely a cause for celebration (and nicely timed right before the weekend!).

  161. Mimmy*

    My Law & Policy class continues to be a hot mess. The upside is that I do enjoy the content – we’ve been reading about Americans with Disabilities Act over the past couple of weeks, and I think we get into the amendments at the beginning of May (after spring break). The material is very dense, though, and reading the Supreme Court decisions make my head spin; I wish the course were more focused on policy rather than the legal side.

    The class has also inspired me to want to build content knowledge on the laws we’re studying and/or related issues. I’ve always wanted to be a “SME” in a couple of major topic areas – I think we had a thread on that some time ago? But…how does one translate extensive content knowledge into a career? Earlier this week, I was all inspired to start some sort of freelance consulting on the ADA or disability awareness, but I don’t have any business skills, and I know becoming self-employed can be very difficult since it takes time to build a client base, especially for someone like me who does not have a lot of work experience.

  162. Elizabeth*

    My division has a call centre that handles most customer enquiries however the more complex or technical calls are forwarded to the relevant department to answer. Answering some of those calls has recently been added to my responsibilities. Some of the calls I can manage, but many of them need more experience than I have. Compared to many staff taking calls, I’m fairly new. Others would be better suited for someone trained in a different sub-speciality of what we do than I am. I’m having to do a lot of putting people on hold to get second opinions which is a waste of time for everyone involved. Stumbling though it myself risks resulting in customers getting bad answers on important questions.

    Is there a way that I can communicate to my manager the mismatch between the task requirements and my abilities in a way that doesn’t seem like I’m incompetent or shirking my responsibilities? I don’t object to answering calls but am troubled by the this dilemma.

    1. Colette*

      I think that kind of thing is normal when you’re learning. Do you have to put people on hold – I.e. Are you able to call them back instead?

      1. Elizabeth*

        I probably should do more calling people back, although ether way there’s still the problem of getting other people involved in questions that are beyond me and delaying getting an answer to customers.

  163. Elizabeth*

    I probably should do more calling people back, although ether way there’s still the problem of getting other people involved in questions that are beyond me and delaying getting an answer to customers.

  164. Tiffany*

    Does anyone have experience leaving a grant funded position before the end of the grant period? I am a contractor at my state’s public health department and I started this position about half way through the grant period (department was slow in planning/hiring somebody for the role).

    I still have a couple years left on the grant contract* but I’m not sure how it will be viewed by the department if I left before the end of the period and if that would cause me to get a negative reference later. I am not too concerned about job hopping on my resume as I recently finished grad school and this is my first “real” job ever.

    A few reasons I am not wanting to stay until the end of my grant period: 1. After being here for a couple months, I found out from several people in the department that nobody cares about or wants to deal with my project at all which is why they have been putting off hiring for so long. I am still hearing comments all the time about people saying “I don’t really care about XXX project” or other comments related to that. 2.None of our contractors ever get raises. Somebody else with the same title but different project with 1 more year of experience than me started at a higher salary, which I understood, however I am now locked into my pay for the rest of this time, even after I will surpass the amount of experience the other person had when they initially started. 3. I relocated for work and am really unhappy with my living situation (I know, not related to my job really but it is really impacting my quality of life)

    Are these legitimate reasons to leave or should I just suck it up? I don’t have any other real jobs to reference this to so I am unsure what the norm is. Would I get a bad reference for leaving once I hit my 1 year?

    *I didn’t sign a contract but we are called contractors since we are paid by grant funds

    1. NicoleK*

      It’s demoralizing when you’re coordinating program and projects that no one else values. That said, you’re a new graduate. If this is a new field for you, and this is the only experience you have, I would suggest that you try to stick it out for two years. Leaving a job after one year and only having 1 year of experience in your field doesn’t make you an attractive candidate to hiring managers.

    2. Graciosa*

      I’m sorry to agree with NicoleK that leaving your first job after only a year will damage your ability to get another one.

      Regarding your item 1, I expect this is frustrating, but you need to take this as an opportunity to learn how to handle this particular issue.

      *Every job* you will ever have in your career will have challenges. I’ve had jobs where the mix of challenges was interesting and at the right level in a generally good environment, but that’s about as good as it gets. These are opportunities to grow, and you benefit from having them.

      The reason short stints hurt your prospects with good hiring managers is that we worry about whether the candidate has the maturity to recognize this and work through those challenges, thus developing skills useful in the work place. We need to avoid candidates who get disillusioned too quickly and start looking for something “better” instead of making a good effort to learn what they can in the job they have.

      I need employees who figure out how to handle problems without running from them. Employees who jump around a lot early in their career limit the heights to which they can reach later, although they usually don’t understand what happened or why they stalled out.

      Good hiring managers know that ten years of experience is *not* the same thing as one year of experience ten times. I would choose a candidate with five years at one job in my profession over someone with ten years split among five jobs (even if they were each two year stints, which generally doesn’t count as job hopping).

      Early in your career, I would advise you to focus on building your skills. Mastering early challenges establishes the foundation for the rest of your career. Coping with negative comments (not even about you, but about the value of your project) is a pretty low-level issue compared to some you would have to deal with if you progressed. I’m not saying that to make you feel unimportant, but just to help you realize that the way you see it now may not be the way a more experienced professional would see this issue (even if that professional is you five years from now!).

      As you encounter issues in your career, your reaction should not be to ask how you get out of it, but rather how do you master it.

      Regarding #2, I really wouldn’t worry about this, and it doesn’t affect my advice to stick this out. There are worse things than a lack of raises for a couple years (did you not know this before you took the job?), and not establishing a good track record in your first position is one of them.

      What typically happens in these situations is that sticking it out for the first stint is treated as “paying your dues” and it makes you eligible for a very nice jump in your next position, even (or especially) if that involves a switch to a private rather than public employer.

      The key is to look at how you position yourself to maximize your *long term* success, rather than to eke out a small improvement in a matter of months. If you can think about everything you listed – comments on the job, salary, and living situation – in that frame work, you’ll find yourself in significantly better situations as your career progresses.

      Good luck.

      1. Tiffany*

        Thank you NicoleK and Graciosa for your advice on how this might be viewed by a hiring manager later.

        I noticed above that I mistakenly wrote I had 2 years left. I actually have 3 left but I will definitely try to stick this out longer than I planned.

        As far as #2, I guess it never really crossed my mind that we wouldn’t get raises since the job posting had a salary range and I started at the bottom. I found out about this a few months after I started and some of my coworkers who have been there for awhile told me that we are locked into whatever pay we start at.

        Thanks again for the advice. I may try picking up some side jobs while at this one to get additional income and experience.

    3. Soupspoon McGee*

      A lot of what you’re describing is common in higher ed grants. The institutional leadership would push us to get a grant because they perceived it as prestigious, or it filled a niche need. People outside of that very particular niche were often not very invested in the project, which sounds like your situation.

      Your employer might call you a contractor, but you are probably legally an employee. You’re paid out of a different fund, though. When I wrote grants, I always budgeted for annual salary increases; these were always subject to the same COLAs people in comparable positions got. This might be due to our status as a state institution with a collective bargaining agreement. Regardless, if they delayed hiring staff for several months but budgeted for those positions, they can carry unspent funds forward to provide pay increases if the grantor approves (or pay for other costs necessary to do the work of the grant).

      As for leaving, it higher ed, it’s common for some staff to leave partway through the grant, usually to take a better position on another grant at another institution. When that happened with a person who’d been there awhile, we could advertise their position at a lower starting rate, hire a less experienced person, and carry the savings forward. Often that was the only way to stay within the budget.

      That said, if the position itself is giving you valuable experience, I suggest you stick around for at least another year, learn as much as you can, and apply for something a little better in an area you’d rather be. Do an amazing job. If you start to do great things, people WILL care about your work.

  165. Joanna*

    Any suggestions on how to have a work define the relationship conversation? I was originally hired as a temp with the understanding it would last for a couple of months. They then extended it a few months more. It’s now been a year and a half on the job. It’s been quite some time since I’ve had any indication of what their intentions for the duration of the role are (ie. if they have an end date in mind or if it’s now a long term arrangement on a temp contact).

    Given that there’s been quite a few temps quit, I don’t want to give the impression that I’m asking because I’m making other plans or wanting to get out of there.

    1. Dot Warner*

      I say just straight up ask what their plans are. Make it clear that you’re happy and don’t want to leave, but that you’d like to be able to make plans in case they have a definite end date in mind.

  166. Network Novice*

    I have a question regarding networking events where you talk to potential employers:

    If a company tells you that they provide service for an area of your study program that you are not that good at and asked if you are interested or good at it, how would you respond? I also wanted to mention that I am still working to improve on that study area.

    1. Joanna*

      You would likely have to provide more detail about the current extent of your skills if you were to get a job interview and certainly don’t lie if asked a direct question by a potential employer in any setting. However, at the networking event stage I think it’s fine to just say that you’re interested in the area and to make brief mention of what you’re doing to develop your skills but to not give much detail about your current skill level. For some entry level roles, strong interest and willingness to learn is more important than lots of existing knowledge.

  167. pt*

    Thanks in part to this website, I’m finally starting my first office job monday! I’m very excited to make the leap but I’m a bit nervous since I’ve only worked hospitality jobs before. Does anyone have any advice on office culture/things to keep in mind?

    1. Joanna*

      Congratulations on your new job!

      Office norms will vary a lot depending on your industry and cultural context. As a general rule while you’re still new it’s a good idea to be a little more conservative and strict that you think is needed when you start on things like dress code, punctuality, desk tidiness, internet use during work time and other things there’s probably not a detailed policy on. Don’t be crazily over the top about it but better to relax your style later if you find out you were a touch too serious than to be scrambling to fix a bad first impression.

      In your early days on the job, take a lot of notes. Take notes both on your work tasks and on office logistics (like who they say to go to if you loose your security passes or need more office supplies). There’s always more to take in than you’re going to remember. I usually bring my own notebook when I start so I’m not rummaging around trying to work out where they store the paper.

      Also, establish early who the best person is to go to if you have questions about your responsibilities. Depending on your office this may be your manager or it may be a staff member who has been there longer. There may also be manuals/written procedures you’re expected to check before you ask questions.

    2. NicoleK*

      Every office is going to be different. So the advice I have is to be observant, listen, and ask questions if you’re not sure.

  168. Nsmom*

    My team is meeting a prospective new boss for lunch this week. Any tips on how to approach this?

  169. Anxa*

    I am applying for a job at my current employer. I work at a college.

    When I applied for my current ob, they had paper applications. Now they have online ones. I don’t technically qualify for the job I have. When I applied, I didn’t realize there was a GPA requirement until after I had started filling out forms (I originally dropped off a resume and cover letter that had them call me back). I alluded to having bad grades in the past during my interview, but didn’t belabor the point once everyone seemed to be dismissing those concerns. Also, my GPA does qualify if it’s calculated a certain way. And I have As in the relevant subjects and have turned my academic life around in the past 10 years.

    The current application for the new job requires me to upload my transcripts. I’m considering dropping the application because my transcripts are an embarrassment and I don’t want to jeopardize my current job. I do think that maybe I could save my job by negotiating a lower wage, one for a degree level down.

    Does anyone have any experience with this?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It’s very, very unlikely that it would jeopardize your current job. GPA requirements are used in hiring as a proxy for “this person will be smart enough / hard-working enough to do the job.” But you’re already in the job and they know you are; they’re not likely to fire you because they now discover they never checked your GPA. (It’s different from degrees in that way.)

      1. Anxa*

        I should have mentioned that I’m an in-house tutor and academic support specialist, so I think it may be a little bit different of a scenario. That said, I only tutor classes I aced and the school had plenty of opportunities to press me for more info, but they did not.

        I’m pretty comfortable with the application after thinking about this a little more clearly.

  170. Can'tDoThat*

    Warning Rant Ahead. So, I lost my job about a year ago, and about 6 months ago I took a job just so I could have a job. It’s a job in food service, which is a huge step down from where I was, but I didn’t think I would be in it long enough to matter. I’ve come to the conclusion I’m never again working in this industry again, but it’s not for what I’m doing it’s for what I CAN’T do: 1. Can’t stay on top of strict food prep and cleaning standards, it’s not quite violating food safety regs, but’s it’s s a short slide to that, 2: Can’t give good customer service, it’s basically mostly acceptable, but again it’s only a short step from horrible customer service and 3: Can’t be decent to other coworkers, as in “oh you’re sick with a fever? no I can’t cover for you”. And from what I can tell some of it is THIS manager, but a lot of it is just how things are done in this industry.

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