open thread – March 31-April 1, 2017

by Alison Green on March 31, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. SaraV*

    I’m filling out an online application, and they’re already asking(!) for three professional references. Already enough of a pain, but they’re also asking for addresses. The other part of the equation is that the address field is required. So! Do I A) Place a false street address, but use the correct town and state information, B) Use the business address, since who I’m thinking of using are all current coworkers, or C) Ask them for their actual addresses?

    My other question is that I’m applying for a job in a field I haven’t been in for 5+ years. Do I use a reference from that job 5+ years ago, or am I better off using three references from my current jobs?

    2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      Business address! Definitely don’t use their home addresses—usually you use the professional address for professional references ;)

      Can your 5+ years ago reference provide a strong reference? If so, I’d use them (especially since the other two will be from your current job).

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Definitely use the business address.

      I would probably also give one professional reference from your current job, one from your job from 5+ years ago, and then the third reference can be whatever.

      1. k*

        If there are two from your old field that you’re still in contact with/knew you a long time/will speak very well of you, I’d use those and then one from your current job. I think it’s important to have references that can speak to the field you’re applying to, but you’ll want at least one current person. If you only list very old contacts it may look odd, like you’re trying to hide something.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      I fill in those fields with “Will supply if required”

      And then supply with the business address if it gets that far.

  2. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

    My Director suggested that my reporting structure change. I am a Compliance Manager providing services across my department. Over time, my duties have expanded to provide work across the entire department – not just her division. My Director requested that I report to my peer, another Manager who provides support across the department for an unrelated are with different responsibilities. Both of our titles will still be Manager.

    I am concerned about reporting to my peer. My peer and I respect each other’s work, and we will professionally manage this change; however, I’ve never heard of this before. Managing the typical duties seems difficult – like task oversight, performance evaluations, discipline, time off, etc. . . Reporting to a manager will look like a demotion to future employers. It will impact my job prospects, and salary. My Director has given me the opportunity to think about this. What do you think?

    How do you suggest I handle this?

      1. Sadsack*

        This happened in our dept and all across our company. Upper management wanted fewer direct reports.

    2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      Is there a department-wide manager? It seems like the appropriate solution is to have both managers supervised by someone higher up the chain/org-chart.

    3. BenAdminGeek*

      Agree that I’d like to know the rationale behind it, but I don’t think it will impact your job prospects or salary- why would a future employer care about the title of the person you report to? If you keep your existing title I don’t think it will matter at all.

      I’m guessing this is your Director trying to either 1) increase your peer’s skillset (potentially she’s interested in moving into management) or 2) reduce her own workload.

    4. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

      My Director suggested the change because the work I do supports all the divisions, and not just her division. She also seems like she’s overworked.

      The only department wide manager is the VP. All of the directors report to the VP. My peer manager reports to the overworked VP too.

      Thank you for responding, everyone.

      1. introvert*

        Happened to me a while ago. I found it very frustrating to start reporting to someone I considered an equal prior to the change (there were other factors contributing here but too long/detailed to share right now) – it did feel like a demotion no matter how much they said, “this isn’t a demotion, it’s a business decision not at all based on performance!” However I don’t think it’ll impact my job prospects in the future – my own title and role haven’t changed, my senior director just wanted fewer directs. In our org, all of the senior directors report to the VP. The directors get to decide how their teams are structured. My director has a huge team so he split it into 5 subject matter groups and put a manager in charge of each so now those 5 managers are the only ones who report directly to him. I used to report directly in, now I report to a peer who I considered an equal and is now above me. It kind of stinks but I get why they did it. It’s just hard to be the person they put lower on the org chart instead of higher, you know? You work your tail off and get great results, and then someone edges you out just a tiny bit and suddenly they’re the boss and it totally changes the dynamic. It’s hard to adjust to, but you just do it (or you leave… I’m considering leaving, but am not being rash about it – I’m giving it a chance and putting some feelers out to see what’s out there).

        1. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

          Thank you so much. Your perspective really helps. I’m sorry you’re going through this too.

    5. Newby*

      Are you comfortable enough with her to say that it feels like a demotion and ask about the reasons behind the change? More information might actually change your perception of the situation or your director might change her mind about the change.

      2. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

        Yes, I am, Newby. We will talk on Monday, but I am pretty uncomfortable with it. I see the logic behind changing my reporting structure. I also don’t know why she selected me to report to someone else. It might matter that my peer manager is in headquarters in another state by her and the VP, and I am remote on the other side of the country.

        1. CAA*

          I wonder if they plan to promote your current peer to Assistant VP or something like that and give her more responsibility. If not, can you suggest that you report to the VP instead? If they agreed to that, I’d be concerned that if the VP is remote and already overworked, the trade-off for not feeling demoted would be that you’d get less feedback, and less relevant performance reviews which can have an effect on your compensation over the long term.

          There might not be a good solution here if you can’t stay with your current manager.

          1. Report to Peer - Thoughts?*

            I doubt they’re promoting the peer manager. You make a good point about the trade offs. In this position, it’s already been a downfall. Many of the people I do work for don’t have input into my performance rankings.

          2. Jerry Vandesic*

            If they are looking to promote the peer, then any reorg beforehand is premature. At this point it is a demotion. It’s a different story if the peer is promoted and the OP starts reporting to the peer.

            I would push back for now. If this is foisted on the OP, it might be time to put out feelers for other job opportunities.

    6. Engineer Woman*

      I’d not worry about future employers as they probably wouldn’t know what the title is of your supervisor.

      I’d worry that this limits your opportunities and upward mobility at your current company. Is the other manager more senior than you (despite same lateral position)? If so, then it might make sense your director is grooming that manager for future promotion . But if your quite even in skills and performance, then this would feel like a demotion.

      Definitely ask details – what is the next step for you at current company? Why for you to report to the other manager and not vice versa (only ask if valid – if you are very new manager and the other had been in role for much longer and has a few more responsibilities, then not a good question)

      1. Jerry Vandesic*

        I would interpret this move as a limit on growth opportunities with the current employer. The boss is saying that the OP is seen as less (by some measure) than the peer. This is useful feedback, and shouldn’t be ignored.

        1. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

          I thought of that too. Why report to him, and not the other way around? He is, of course, competent and professional, but so am I. It does speak of my value to the company, and – you are right – is useful feedback.

      2. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

        It does feel like a demotion.
        My Peer Manager also manages positions that are administrative too. So, it’s a bit defeating.

    7. Pat Benetardis*

      For me, the question is, is the prospective manager really your peer? Anywhere I have worked (big companies, all in one industry), you can’t report to someone on the same level as yourself. And would it be a conflict of interest for that manager to work to promote you eventually, which would result in the employee passing the manager. I wouldn’t like it.

      1. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

        Yes, Peer Manager is indeed my peer and on the same level as me. I’ve never seen it before either. You make a very valid point about promotion that I haven’t thought of.

      2. Nerfmobile*

        Oh, in my company it’s common for senior people to report to someone at the same pay grade level as themselves, or even someone a grade lower. We are a large software company with parallel technical and management tracks, so you could easily have a very senior technical staff member reporting to a manager at the same level or even one or two lower. And for the past year, I was at the same grade level as my manager (though he just got promoted so that has changed).

    8. Beezus*

      I would try to avoid looking at it as a demotion, and look at it as a chance to report to someone who has the right tools to help you be successful across multiple divisions. I don’t see how it has any bearing on your future job prospects. I’d also avoid thinking of the other manager as your peer, if the change moves forward.

      I’ve seen this done a number of times when someone has too many reports and needs to add a level to manage their workload. I’ve never seen anyone given a choice about the change or an opportunity to push back, that angle is new to me. I currently know someone affected by a similar change who sees it as a demotion and is letting it affect her professionalism and work ethic, and it’s effectively becoming a demotion because of those factors, when it really wasn’t before.

      1. Report to a Peer – Thoughts?*

        You make a good point about looking at the other manager as my peer if this moves forward. It’s hard not to see this as a demotion, but I will not let this impact my professionalism or work ethic.

        1. PollyQ*

          I can see where it’d feel like a demotion, but given that you’re doing the same work for the same pay with the same title, it really isn’t. (IMHO, anyway.) Having worked on distributed teams, I suspect the geography of having peer in the same location played a role in the decision, or maybe he specifically requested more managerial responsibility.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      I know what I would say, can’t promise you would gain ground but I think it’s a good point.

      You are doing compliance. Is it really appropriate for you to report to someone who is a peer??? Let’s say you find a serious compliance issue in her area/her bff’s area/her arch enemy’s area. So now it is up to her to remedy that compliance issue. How will that play out?

      I’d explain to my boss that compliance issues can impact the company on several levels and because of that impact I should be reporting to someone who is NOT my peer and that person should not be responsible for her own peers’ performance.

      This is just not a good set up, in my opinion. But it could be that I am not reading your post accurately and I missed something.

      1. Report to Peer - Thoughts?*

        You are reading it accurately. I am the head of compliance for my department. I’ve been so focused on the other issues, I hadn’t yet gotten to the Compliance complications. Thank you, Not So New Reader.

      2. Troutwaxer*

        This sounds like a big deal to me. “Give me a few days to fix this problem and I’ll approve that vacation you wanted.”

    10. Truffle*

      I would suggest having several options in mind, and adjusting as the conversation develops.

      Compliance varies a lot, but if it’s very important in your organisation, would it make sense for you to report to the VP?

      You might need to suggest ways you could make VP’s workload with you as low as possible, but if you don’t need much support, you might be able to make it work.

      Maybe you could split the management of your position? If Peer, Director & VP are all geographically distant, would it make sense for you to report everyday issues to a local Manager, and report only things you & local Manager can’t resolve & tricky compliance issues to the VP?

      2. Report to Peer - Thoughts?*

        Thank you for that suggestion. It’s a really good one. I don’t have a local manager – I am WFH. But, I could do a variation of that. I must start doing more project-based conversations with each of the Directors (who I don’t report to), and have admin stuff go to actual peer manager.

  3. Folklorist*

    To the writers/editors out there: what types of professional development have been beneficial to you?

    I’m an editor at a small engineering association magazine, and I really love my job. I get to do everything from writing and editing to photography and artwork (all of which feed off of my degrees). I’m really happy doing what I’m doing, and hadn’t really given any thought to “moving up” or anything like that. That said, I welcome any chance to learn something new and don’t want to pass up professional development opportunities!

    My boss says that we have more room in the budget for professional development this year, and since I got a promotion, he wanted me to start getting my hands dirty in the management of the magazine. I’m used to working on shoe-string budgets with no room to dream big, so I was going to ask him to buy me a used copy of Alison’s management book. But then he said something about, “Well, we might not be in a position to send you back for your MBA right now, but is that something you’d be interested in?”

    My mind was blown! I don’t know if I want an MBA or to go back to school at all (I already have two master’s degrees and am pretty burned out on higher education), but I clearly need to be thinking bigger than a self-help book. I think that there are a lot of possibilities for growth that have never occurred to me. I do enjoy thinking about magazines and other projects in a bigger picture, so something about creative management might be cool, but I really just…don’t know where I want my career to go from here. That’s a bigger question I need to explore, but am curious about what others have done!

    So. What have you found helpful?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Oooh, good question, I’m an editor who’s in transition and looking for inexpensive professional development. I was thinking of looking into some SEO training myself.

      (for you I don’t really think an MBA is needed, but I’m interested to hear what others think!)

      2. Terra Firma*

        SEO training is a great idea. I work at a media agency and we’ve hired a full editorial team to create content for clients that’s both well written and SEO friendly. The need for that kind of experience is growing quickly.

          2. MoinMoin*

            I believe I’ve previously seen AAM commenters mentioning Google’s SEO certification being free and decently respected on a resume, though I don’t have any personal experience with it.

            1. Terra Firma*

              Google doesn’t actually offer an SEO certification. They have learning materials, but only offer certification in their paid products. You can be certified in Analytics, SEM, Mobile, Display, Video, and Shopping. Those certifications are appreciated on resumes for entry level hires, and expected on more senior resumes in many agencies.

              1. MoinMoin*

                Thanks for clarifying! I’ve only read about it here in passing, so I was hoping if I put my vague recollection out there someone would come by and “ACTUALLY…” my answer. :-)

    2. Kat M*

      Have you thought about applying for Seth Godin’s Alt MBA? It’s only four weeks, but if they’re looking for you to try something newer and bigger, it might be right up your alley.

    3. CAA*

      Is there a conference or seminar that you could attend where you’d meet people from other similar sized magazines? I’d encourage you to travel to an event rather than trying to take courses online, because face-t0-face networking for a few days can really help to broaden your horizons and understand what types of opportunities are out there. Even if you don’t want to leave your current situation, just seeing what others are doing can spark ideas on changes you could make where you are.

        1. em2mb*

          I’d look for one that’s specific to your niche, versus a general conference for writers/editors, if you can. I attend an education-specific conference every year. It’s the most helpful training I’ve ever gotten!

    4. dappertea*

      I find conferences in your field can be a great opportunity for professional development without the time commitment and price tag associated with a post-grad program!

      1. Mira*

        3rding the SEO training. Learning Experience Design is another very handy medium of knowledge for writers/editors – the e-learning industry is BOOMING.

        Also, if you can learn the basics of content and community management, it’ll definitely add a punch to your resume!

    5. theletter*

      Go with project management. Y0u can take a class as a student at large – and one class ought to do it. I had a great time in my class, and I got a certification at the end.

    6. UTManager*

      Ooh! I can help you on this one!

      I am a former editor and current manager in the publishing biz, and I think your boss is bringing up topic of MBAs so that you grow into a professional who can weigh in on operational and strategic decisions in the future, not just editorial/creative matters. Many (most?) editors I’ve worked with and managed have had a very difficult time taking off their “grammarian hats” when called on for a more objective, strategic perspective, and this makes them unpromotable. If an editor sees the business so myopically, I can’t trust them to make decisions and sacrifices to help the entire business succeed. My word of advice would be to ensure you’re learning how to think about what the business overall needs, and start seeing your role as feeding into the overall business strategy. Your boss probably sees you as a “big thinker” already, so you might well already be doing all these things!

    7. Working Rachel*

      In a similar job, I found going to the Society of Scholarly Publishing conference helpful. Helped me see what the larger industry was doing. SSP focuses mostly on medical and science journals; there is also Association Media and Publishing that’s more magazine-focused. If you search around you may find other associations and conferences in this space, too.

  4. ThatGirl*

    Anyone had any experience with Right Management or similar outplacement firms? I have three months of their service as part of my severance from my recent layoff. I went to an intro meeting this week and it’s a LOT… but it seems like it could be helpful. I’m rewriting my resume for the 50th time.

    They also told us we should be doing “networking coffees” three times a week. I don’t think I know that many people who would be helpful or willing or able to meet!

    1. Graciosa*

      I think they were helpful in some ways, not so much in others. The pluses for me included help with my resume, practice interviewing (including video interviewing, which was new to me), and access to research information about prospective employers.

      Some of their networking guidance was not appropriate to my personality (or, thankfully, my industry).

      Use what you find helpful and don’t worry about the rest.

      Good luck –

      1. ThatGirl*

        Thank you. I definitely appreciate a review of my resume and I could use the interviewing tips… but some of it definitely seemed geared toward older folks and more MBA-types (I’m 36; the woman on Wed. made a remark about “interviewing with people 20 years younger”… uh. Not so much for me.)

    2. Bethlam*

      My company contracted with an Outplacement service for the 60 people who lost/are losing their jobs from our impending closing. They have been awesome! My boss asked me to sit in on the first workshop for the first group of production employees being furloughed, and I’ve facilitated interactions between the assigned career coach and other employees, and I’ve been really impressed.

      Many of our employees have been here for 20 – 40 years, and job hunting today is VERY different than the last time a lot of our employees were in the market – a lot of the production employees have never created a resume; a couple of our long-term employees never even filled out an application; just got the job by referral. She has had excellent advice for everyone, regardless of their type of employment. Much of her advice is very similar to what I’ve seen on AAM.

      However, we used to use a different outplacement firm, and we’re using this new one for a reason. Previous one was very disappointing. The new one is stellar.

    3. Emmie*

      When I worked with Right Management (three years ago), their resume work was hyper involved but VERY helpful. I recommend it, and will hire their resume writer in the future! I didn’t do the coffee – too far from my house. They had some online networking you could do in place of the coffees, but I didn’t do that either.

      1. ThatGirl*

        They have weekly “accountability groups” and “power networking” seminars, I’ll probably at least go to a few seminars … but she made it sound like we should be meeting 3x a week with people we know, out on the town, doing 1 on 1 networking. Which … I can do that with a few people but not 3x a week indefinitely.

        1. Emmie*

          I agree. That was wayyyy to much to do on top of looking for a job. Plus, I was uncomfortable with that. I thought the resume “writing” was really helpful. I have it in quotes since it’s really really intensive coaching where you write it yourself and they coach. Good luck!!

    4. Channel Z*

      It was a long time ago that I used Right Management, before video conferencing was common. I agree with Graciosa’s comments. They were very helpful with resume’s and cover letters. Another advantage was that I moved from US to Ireland, and RM had an office in Ireland and I was able to transfer the services to the Irish branch. This was even more helpful because I could get realistic salary expectations and address any differences in the job hunt process, including wording of cover letters. Networking coffees wouldn’t be a thing.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Thanks! So far their advice mostly seems fine, I haven’t delved into cover letters yet. They do have a nice variety of resume samples that aren’t too far off from what I already had. One stat that I thought was interesting, they claimed 55% of people found a job with equal or higher pay to their last position … which to me that 45% who *didn’t* stands out.

    6. Ebrofin*

      My company uses Right Management, and as they are offshoring several hundred jobs to Bangalore, many of my colleagues have already started the process with Right Management. All of the feedback I’ve heard is very favorable– great help with the resume, LinkedIn, and interviewing. One person did say that not very many people show up for the coffees. So far, a number of my friends have found new jobs, and they all say Right Management was a factor in helping them find a new role.

      1. Gadfly*

        Just FYI–That may qualify for Trade Act, which put my husband through nursing school and has some relocation benefits and other benefits above and beyond unemployment. I’ll link to it in a reply.

        My husband got it because the financial person at the school he went to knew about it–Workforce Services (who handled all the unemployment type stuff) acted like no one ever got it. His case was a LOT less direct than “they offshored my job” and wasn’t that hard. So it might be something for your friends and colleagues to look into and see if it might be of value to them.

  5. intldevtprof*

    This February, I was given my very first supervisory role. (Eeek!) I only supervise one employee, an administrative assistant who works on my project and a few others. Overall, her performance is good and she clearly has a lot of potential, but I’m having issues with her…casualness. We are both young (I’m 26, she’s 21/22ish), this is her first job, and our office is a relatively casual and friendly workplace where swearing in meetings, lighthearted teasing of coworker friends and even bosses, and jeans all week are the norm. I think this may have given her the impression that certain behaviours are much more normal than I think they are. For example:

    -She walks into my office to ask a question and begins with “Hi friend!”
    -I’ll stop at her desk to say hi and ask about her day. Her responses are way too frank: “Finance is really getting on my nerves about this requisition.”
    -She’s prone to excessive hyperbole: “I’m sorry, I will literally never ever forget to email you the teapot invoice ever again.”

    Since I’m a new supervisor, I’m struggling with: 1) assessing what is actually appropriate given our pretty casual workplace; 2) how to correct her in the moment. I plan on addressing these issues during her three month check-in, but I don’t know how to correct in the moment without sounding overly harsh. “I’m not your friend, I’m your boss” seems a little….arrogant? We also work in an open concept office, so I’m cautious about taking her to task in front of co-workers. I have a horrible feeling that I’m chalking up to be a not-great supervisor, so any advice is appreciated!

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      I think it’ll be hard to correct her on “casualness” when the office is that way. You should be setting the example of preferred behavior.

      1. I would correct with, “Call me , thanks!” In a light way.
      2. I’m not sure how that’s too frank. You are her supervisor, she should be telling you if things aren’t going well. Maybe that wasn’t a good example. Do you have others. I know I’ve heard and said a million variations on that same statement.
      3. Ehh. With clients, I’d probably have a problem with it but with you, I’d probably chalk it up to quirk if it doesn’t impact work. I had that tendency when I first started and eventually learned not to do it. It was a process for sure.

      1. intldevtprof*

        Yeah, maybe not the best example. Another example is: “Oh, I finished the teapot spouts yesterday, which was totally *super boring* but whatever, it’s done now.” I understand that she should be able to come to me with concerns about her job, but there’s a level of diplomacy in phrasing that I think she should learn (and will benefit her in her future career). And doing teapot spouts is a part of your job that you knew when you started!

        But I’m seeing that most of the comments below are flagging that these things aren’t as big of a deal as I think they are, so maybe I’m overcompensating because I’m so nervous about being responsible for someone’s professional development!

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          No, that’s unprofessional. She’s in her first job, working in a casual office, and she’s not clear on boundaries with your boss.

          I think you’d be doing her a favor if you gave her some coaching on this stuff, and you could frame it as “we’re an especially casual office so this stuff might not be a huge deal here, but it’s the kind of thing that could come across less than professionally in future jobs so I want to give you some feedback on it now and help you build good habits around it.”

          1. intldevtprof*

            Thanks Alison and other commenters! I’ve been ruminating on the best phrasing, but everything I’ve been thinking of comes across as too disciplinary. This is all really helpful.

            1. tigerStripes*

              If possible, do this right away, before the 3 month check in. Otherwise she’ll get nervous before every review. You want to bring up issues promptly so that people don’t worry about what you’re not telling them.

          2. Chaordic One*

            I really like the way you’ve framed the issue and the script that you’ve provided.

        3. Elizabeth H.*

          I have a slightly younger coworker who does exactly this too – she is way too frank (to an extreme) about expressing frustrations with normal elements of the work and describing things as chaotic or difficult in a hyperbolic way, and it comes off as extremely unprofessional. She even does it to people outside our organization and made a comment of this nature in a job interview to an interviewee (!!!). I was actually collecting specific examples of this in case I would write to Alison for advice on how to raise it/if I raised it. I don’t supervise her though although I trained her on some stuff. It really bothers me, but then my desk got moved into a different office than she is in so I’m removed from the situation now.

      2. evilOlive*

        I didn’t read -all- the replies, so I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this.

        “Hi friend!” while casual, is a great non-gendered greeting. It’s warm and open, it’s also a nice soft punt that is shorter than “hey Ms. Marple (or Esmerelda), do you have a second? I have some questions.” As a millennial myself I find myself tending towards either specific names or non-gendered groupings “hello, everyone”, “good morning, Gretchen”, “thanks to all for coming, I’ll make this quick”. I find myself really focusing on not misgendering folks or mispronouncing names. As one of the ones with an incredibly difficult ethnic name, I see and appreciate when others pay attention or go out of their way to welcome.

    2. BenAdminGeek*

      I’d work on formalizing your own interactions with her. That sets the tone and will help model norms (assuming she picks up on these things). In my first management role, I wanted to people to like me, which wasn’t what I really needed. Avoid the temptation to come down to her level of casualness.

      1. k*

        I agree with this. Her behavior doesn’t seem so bad that I think anything needs to be specifically told to her, so modeling more formal behavior may be a good way to subtly get her to change.

    3. Coffee*

      -She’s prone to excessive hyperbole: “I’m sorry, I will literally never ever forget to email you the teapot invoice ever again.”

      I’d ask her how she’ll make sure that never happens again and express that you’d rather hear the corrective actions she’s going to take instead of a blanket statement like that. Hopefully it’ll help her stop and think and lead her to a more professional perspective. I think this can be done in the moment without it sounding too harsh.

    4. EA*

      1. I don’t think the “Hi Friend” is a big deal. I think it is more friendliness than her actually think you guys are friends. But if you are worried on her getting the idea she is friends with you, maybe formalize your interactions with her.
      2. Could other people hear the finance comment? I think if she said it to you in private, it is fine. If others can hear you can talk to her about open concept offices and finding a private place to talk about concerns.
      3. Personality quirk that is someone annoying, but she is far from the only person who does that.

      I know this is harsh, but I don’t think these are real serious issues, I think you are insecure in your new role and afraid of failing.

      1. intldevtprof*

        Yeah, I agree that there’s very likely an element of me panicking/overcompensating. That’s why I’m so glad to have the objectivity of AAM commentators!

      2. TootsNYC*

        funny…I literally say “hi, boss” to my boss now and then, just to establish that while I am proactive and senior, I do actually recognize that they’re the boss.

        I’ve just always felt that it was smart to remind us both now and then, that she IS my boss, and that I DO recognize it.

        1. TootsNYC*

          And if I had this employee, this might be one of the issues I’d coach them on–that even the chill-est of bosses might occasionally value reassurance that their authority is recognized and respected, and that this might be even more important in a casual atmosphere.

    5. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      “Hi friend” is not ideal but could be ok. The informality could be a problem, but I actually think the bigger problem is that it suggests you’re peers, and because you’re young, I worry that she might not meaningfully understand that you’re her boss. Do all direct reports have this level of casual-ness with their managers at your workplace? If not, then I’d say something like, “I know we’re a really casual workplace, but it’s not really the culture/practice here to be that casual when you’re approaching your supervisor.”

      The excessive hyberbole is not really a problem, although you could gently respond in the moment that you don’t expect perfection, but you appreciate her commitment to ensuring she’s meeting her responsibilities.

      The second issue is worth immediate correction. If you’re in a public area, I would ask if she can step into your office (or another somewhat private area), or you could save this for your regular check-in meetings (you’re meeting with her every 1-2 weeks, right?). Tell her it’s normal to feel frustration with other departments but that the requirements exist for a reason, and it’s not really professional/appropriate to complain about her personal feelings regarding those departments/processes. That said, if she’s noticed something about finance’s requisition process that seems to be impacting your company’s effectiveness, she can bring those things up with you and you can help her determine if the feedback would be appropriate to pass along.

        1. intldevtprof*

          Yeah, this is kind of my main concern/how I want to frame the issue. It might be okay in our super casual office, but if she ends up moving to another job and within 3 weeks of starting is complaining about other departments or whatever, it will affect how people perceive her.

    6. Tuckerman*

      I would focus more on shaping the behavior you want. None of what she is doing is especially egregious, you just want to make sure she can function in a variety of office settings. For the second example, when she says something about finance getting on her nerves, I might say something like, “It would be more helpful to me to know what exactly finance is doing that is getting in the way of this requisition being processed so we can determine how to proceed.”

    7. katkat*

      I’m 22 and in my first fulltime professional job, and I think it would be really helpful for you to say something to her. Since you get along, it would be a lot nicer for her to hear if from you than someone down the road or having people not take her seriously when she walks in like “hey pal!!”
      I think you could address the frankness and hyperbole in the same conversation. In your check-in, you could say, “I appreciate you always being honest when something bothers you and that you take things seriously, but sometimes the way you communicate that is more than necessary.” give her the examples you wrote here, and tell her why they aren’t appropriate.

      As for in-the-moment, you can give her cues about her behavior if you’re uncomfortable saying it flat out in front of others. When she says “Hi Friend!” you can laugh a little bit and repeat “friend?” just to hopefully make her think whether that was really the right greeting. When she says she’ll literally never make that mistake ever again, say, “ok, you don’t have to take it over the top, but that will be fine.”
      Good luck!

    8. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      1. “She walks into my office to ask a question and begins with “Hi friend!” – I’d ignore this. Frankly, it seems juuuust a tad petty to get on someone for saying this. I agree it’s a little chirpy, but.

      2. “Her responses are way too frank” – This is probably not a bad thing. She’s giving you substantive answers rather than polite fluff, which can be a little offputting if you’re expecting “Great, thanks!” but again, correcting her on this would be a bit petty.

      -She’s prone to excessive hyperbole: “I’m sorry, I will literally never ever forget to email you the teapot invoice ever again.” – THIS is where I’d talk to her. “Griselda, I understand you’re trying to communicate how serious you are about correcting this mistake, but using this kind of hyperbolic language makes you seem a little unserious, and makes promises you might not be able to keep.”

      1. N.J.*

        See with the overly frank responses, I would see those as the biggest problem. A lot of professionalism is getting along with coworkers. She has to learn to channel frustrations and push through work stress without letting it color her view of other departments etc so much. The OP’s other example, of the assistant saying a task was very boring, is problematic as well. It makes the assistant sound childish and unrealistic. As someone who has both been a bit too frank at work recently, which bit me in the ass a bit (I was told I sounded whiny when I expressed frustration to a manager regarding a department’s unhelpfulness) and who has worked with complainers and negative nelly types, this can also pigeonhole the assistant as someone negative or who doesn’t understand the concept of teamwork and could hurt her professional trajectory. The OP would be doing her a great service by discussing appropriate ways to express frustration or concern and the link between attitude and perceptions of professionalism.

        1. Elizabeth H.*

          Agreed, I think those are the biggest problem. It’s just not professional and not okay to describe normal parts of your job as frustrating, boring, etc. In situations where it is something extremely egregious like some unprecedented crisis, it’s different but it sounds like it’s not a very extreme situation but she’s still sharing her feelings about it. You’re not really supposed to express your feelings about all the parts of your work you don’t like, at work. You can bitch about it at home or to your friends all you want, but at work we usually do a mix of stuff we enjoy and find rewarding at least a couple things that we don’t enjoy or are frustrating. Ideally more of the former and in the very best cases, we find almost all of what we do worthwhile and rewarding, but there are always going to be a couple annoying things that we just have to do. It’s why we are getting paid for it instead of doing it for free, for fun. That’s why not complaining about aspects of your work, at work, is part of being professional.

    9. AvonLady Barksdale*

      She sounds really annoying to me, but not egregiously so. Except for the 3rd point, because I hate responses like that. All she should be saying is, “I’m sorry, I’ll make a note and try not to do that again.” When she does the “literally never ever forget” it sounds to me like she’s being dismissive of the issue. Granted, my response is definitely colored by picturing someone I know who talks just like this, is overly casual, the same age, and just got her first job. So, you know, grain of salt. Anyway, I would address the hyperbole only: “Jane, there is a chance that you WILL forget again, and that’s ok. I simply want you to understand that you made a small mistake, correct it, try not to do it again, and move on. Thanks.” Well, maybe that’s cold. But something along those lines.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Yeah, the hyperbole comes off as unserious, despite itself. I like your script.

    10. Lily in NYC*

      I don’t think any of this is problematic. To me, a good manager lets employees be “themselves” as long as it’s not inappropriate. And some people, myself included, are very prone to speak in hyperbole – it’s a personality trait that would be very difficult for someone to change.

      I used to have a boss (I was her assistant) who was very casual and joked around with and teased everyone. I gently teased her about something car-related (it was so minor, really) and she called me into her office, shut the door, and told me exactly what you want to tell your admin (I’m not your friend, don’t joke around with me, blah blah blah). I immediately started looking to transfer away from her and got promoted to a different dept. behind her back. She flipped out when she found out because she thought we were such a “good team” and asked me why I was betraying her. I told her flat out that it was because I wanted a boss that allowed me to be a human being. She kept trying to get me back because she couldn’t find a good assistant after I dumped her. Honestly, I truly think you are in the wrong here and if she’s good at her job you should let this go.

      1. intldevtprof*

        I completely accept that she’s just a bubbly personality (unlike me). I would never tell her not to joke, and I definitely haven’t said “I’m your boss, not your friend”…that’s just my intrusive thought whenever she says it!

        While there is a small element of me being petty about personal quirks, I guess I’m mostly concerned that she’s going to be perceived a certain way. She’s very smart and asks great questions, and I want people to take her seriously.

    11. paul*

      model the behavior you want to see as best you can. But on some of that…I mean if you ask her how her day is, be willing to get an honest answer, particularly as it pertains to work. If something work related is going really badly (or really well) that’s good for a manager to know.

      And I’d honestly just try to ignore the hyperbole. It’s annoying but some people are like that and I’m not sure it is a hill worth dying on

    12. AnitaJ*

      I’m also a new supervisor and having the same kind of issues. My supervisee has wonderful technical skills and a bubbly personality, but lacks the professional polish that many others in our office have. Our environment is, as well, somewhat casual, but we still want to maintain a level of decorum.

      I’ve begun coaching her in our weekly 1:1s around the topics of professional growth and development. I’ve framed it as ‘We are very happy with the work you’re doing here, and so excited to see you get to that next level. I’d love to spend some time during our meetings to speak about things that I personally have learned from my mentors/coworkers/bosses, and the things that I wish someone had said to me when I first started out.” This covers a range of things like behavior at happy hours, dress code, email communications, etc. I do really want to see her grow and thrive and while it’s uncomfortable sometimes to have these conversations, I push myself to do it because I know it will help her succeed.

      You sound like a conscientious supervisor. I wish you luck!

    13. Marisol*

      I am inclined to agree with the other comments, and have this to add: it might be helpful to consider her overall demeanor separately from her actions. While it might not be optimal to tell you “uhmahgod I will LITERALLY never make that same mistake everz” what’s even more important is, does she change her behavior in response to your feedback? Does she follow through, meet deliverables, etc. even if she communicates about it in an annoying way? If she basically does her job duties correctly and takes you seriously when you give feedback, then you can be assured that the unprofessional delivery isn’t indicative of insubordination. If, on the other hand, she says, “oh, sorry friend! I majorly screwed up. Oh well! It was boring anyway and I didn’t really want to do is” and just laughs your feedback off and doesn’t take your directions seriously, then that’s an actual problem. I don’t get the sense that that’s what’s happening though.

      I think you will have to cut her some slack. I probably wouldn’t address the way she speaks too much, although I can completely understand why it would bug you. If you think her communication style will hold her back or will make the company look bad, you could say something like, “it’s fine talk to me that way, but you might want to keep in mind that when you speak to big boss, it’s better to be a little more formal. For example, instead of ‘hi friend’ you might want to say ‘good morning Felicia.'” I wouldn’t problematize her entire way of being–she just needs to know how to adjust her tone to fit certain contexts. And I would personally encourage my employees to be frank with me about things, so I’m not sure I would push back on the way she communicates with you–perhaps you can reframe her informality that as a sign that she trusts you, rather than as a sign of disrespect.

    14. Mindy Moore*

      So, I find the ages very interesting. You are both in your 20’s. That makes you both millennials. I really don’t like grouping people and your are both a perfect example of why. We recently received supervisor/management training on dealing with millennials. Much of it revolved around the very issues that you brought up being concerned about. She fits the millennial stereotype-of casualness and perceived lack of professionalism and you do not. Our training came down to…. is she doing her job and doing it well? Suck it up, the next person could be a lot worse. Millennials aren’t going to change so you have to adapt to them. Look at her work ethic and not her personality and try to pick your battles.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        But they do change :) If they have good managers and mentors, they get coaching and feedback and they do indeed adapt to professional norms, just like any other generation when they were newer to the workforce.

    15. Not So NewReader*

      I am not seeing anything that terrible. I have done similar things myself at some point.

      Let me ask you this (sincere question) if she were 40 or 50 years old would this look differently to you? I have had to think about this one myself. I supervised a group of people ranging in age from 20 to 50 plus (I was 30 something). This forced me to think about my reaction to what was said based on the age of the person. I realized I needed to be fair and even-handed.

      I have noticed that as I age, people are less apt to pick my sentences apart or misread my actions. I remember being 20ish and seeing A LOT of criticism that was off base and gave me a lot of mixed signals. People spoke to 20 year old me a lot differently than they speak to 50 plus year old me.

      So first, do not wait to her three month review to tell her. She should not be hearing anything that is new at her review, as you should be coaching her as you go along. Frankly if you waited three months to tell me not to call you “friend”, I would die a thousand deaths worrying about what else you have not to told me. If it bothers you,okay, so be it, then just tell me now, so I don’t keep doing it for the next three months.

      Complaining about others. I have watched bosses do this, instruct an employee not to complain about others. The employee thinks the boss is from Mars because everyone around the employee is complaining all day long. Why isn’t someone telling them to “shadup”, too? So what I would do is frame it this way: “Jane you are going to see people around you complaining all the time. But I have learned that the people who complain the least are the ones who get ahead. What they do instead of complaining is they offer ideas to improve things or they change what they are doing so the situation improves.”

      Here the strategy is to go big picture: “If you do X then Y is more likely to happen.” Where X is good handling of a situation and Y is desirable outcome. You focus on what TO DO rather than what is wrong.

      Hyperbole. Here, again, big picture focus. “Jane, I appreciate that you mean you will do your best so that this does not happen again. So you can just say it that way and I will believe you, I promise. We are in an environment where speaking accurately is very valuable. So we need to watch exaggerations in speaking.”

      You get bonus points if you can relate a story where you did a similar thing as the behavior you are targeting. Then you tell her what happened to you because of what you did.

      You are finding your “boss voice” and she is finding her “employee voice”. In fair turnabout, ask her what she needs from you as a boss. What can you do more of? What is not working? Tell her you will ask her on her review, so she has time to prepare a couple of things. Tell her to pick the top 2-3 things she would like you to know.

  6. Anonymostest for this post-est*

    I could use some positive thoughts and maybe advice. I’ve been looking for jobs since last summer, and I’m developing a pattern: I make it to the final round and then get rejected, but the rejection comes with unsolicited positive comments about my candidacy. This has happened three times now. I was rejected from a job this week, and the hiring manager actually called to say how much I had impressed everyone and that they’d keep me in mind for later openings.

    I feel pretty stuck. I think I should expand my job search to less-senior positions in order to be a stronger candidate, but it’s also clear that I’ve been a strong contender for the jobs I’m already applying for. I apply selectively, I almost always get an interview, and the interviews go well. The employers encourage me to re-apply. But I don’t actually get an offer.

    Any tips on closing the deal? Should I lower my sights? Just keep applying?

    1. Newby*

      Is there a reason not to expand your search to include slightly lower positions? How much do you need a new job? If you want a new job ASAP, it would make sense to apply for the less senior-positions, but if you can afford to wait or are ok with staying at your current job longer, then it doesn’t make sense to apply for jobs you don’t really want.

    2. Caro in the UK*

      Is the field you’re applying in unusually competitive? It might just be bad luck.

      You could try asking for some constructive feedback, if you feel comfortable doing do, and if you think they’re be willing to. The fact that they’ve all been very complimentary about you suggests that they might. You could try from the angle of “I’d love to apply again in the future, would you be able to give me any advice on how to improve my candidacy next time.”

      Of course they might just say that another candidate had slightly more experience etc. But you might find that they all highlight a particular area that you could work on. Good luck!

      1. Anonymostest for this post-est*

        I asked for feedback the last time it happened, and the response was, “You were great, but we went with a candidate who had experience in XYZ area.” I’m shifting fields slightly, which I think is hurting me, and that’s why I’m thinking of applying to more junior positions—if part of the problem is that I’m losing out to people with experience in the area, maybe I need to start lower down the ladder and get that experience myself.

        1. PollyQ*

          I was wondering about the experience question too, so if you feel like you’re on the lower end of what’s being asked for, maybe it is time to look at junior positions.

    3. Chriama*

      Wait, have you only gotten to the final stage in 3 interviews since last summer? Or just 3 have rejected you with unsolicited positive comments? If the former, I think you need to change something about your search – seniority of positions, resumes and cover letters, whatever. If the latter, go back and ask them for more advice! Tell them you appreciate your feedback and you’ve noticed a common theme in your interviews. Is there anything in your profile that could take you from “really good” to “definitely the best”. Is there any part of your work experience that isn’t quite strong enough, or any concern they had? Basically, you understand that you’re a strong candidate but want to be able to tackle the few remaining reservations so you can stand out better in future interviews.

      1. Anonymostest for this post-est*

        Three have rejected me with unsolicited positive comments. I’m in a small market and I only apply for positions that I think would be a great fit, so I’ve only applied for ~6 positions. In addition to the three I mentioned, I’ve had one rejection after a phone interview, one interview that I’m still waiting to hear back on, and one application where I wasn’t contacted for an interview.

        1. Anonymostest for this post-est*

          Correction: positions that I think COULD be a great fit. I’ve applied for a few (including the one where I was rejected after a phone interview) where I wasn’t sure but wanted to learn more.

    4. Artemesia*

      This happened to my daughter several times in a job search such that she was beginning to worry about a reference issue that might sabotage her. And then she got a great job offer. Sometimes it is just the competition. Certainly think about how to strengthen your interviewing but it is quite possible you are doing the necessary in a tough market.

    5. Thlayli*

      I had this exact thing for months and in at least one case I know I was a close second and the person who got the job had just one year more experience than me. It got to the stage where I really needed a new job and I lowered my expectations and got a job in 2 days. It seems like there are just slightly better candidates than you out there, or maybe you’re reaching slightly too high.

    6. Clinical Social Worker*

      I’ve had this happen to me. They feel guilty about turning down a great candidate and want to give you hope, because again, they feel guilty.

      You are getting clear signs you are a strong candidate. Keep going. You will find something. Job searching is always tough but remind yourself that you have all the signs of being a good candidate. Persistence (as in keeping up the high performance with each application, not badgering the same place over and over) is the name of the game.

    7. Buu*

      Does your industry have networking events or conventions? Perhaps just going about and meeting people might either let you find out about jobs before they advertise publicly, or let you make a positive impression on the staff there before you do apply?

    8. Kit*

      To me that sounds like you don’t need to do anything different. There have been plenty of times when I loved two candidates but only had one position open and had to make a relatively arbitrary decision between them. My final criterion is which of them will stay longer (according to my own gut feeling) but other hiring managers are going to have completely different tie-breakers.

    9. Anonfornow*

      I’ve been in a similar situation (without the majorly positive feedback at the end!)..I’m also shifting fields, as well. What I have done is snoop around on LinkedIn to see who has filled the position; for the positions I was able to find, the person who ended up with the job always has more experience either in the specific field (I don’t have healthcare or legal experience) or in that environment (I have no university experience). I’m a pretty strong candidate but I’m in an oversaturated market. I WAS able to look back and see some flaws with some of my interview answers, so it’s still important to reflect on that, but I still don’t believe — after seeing the winning candidates — that I would have gotten these jobs even then, considering the competition. I’m still figuring out how to retarget my search, and I think with some creativity I’ll figure out how to do it (and so will you).

    11. Anon for This*

      This happens a lot to me, too. I manage to get interviews, but I can’t seem to close the deal.

      Sometimes I think to myself that my age or my being a member of a minority are hurting me.

      I always seem to be everyone’s “Second Favorite Choice” for whatever I apply and interview for.

      1. Anonymostest for this post-est*

        This is how I feel too (not the discrimination part, although that’s a possibility). I am apparently a great second choice, which feels surprisingly lousy.

    12. misspiggy*

      On ‘closing the deal’: during the interview try setting yourself the mental puzzle of working out what your interviewers most want. Which questions have a little tell of concern or anxiety, showing they really need whomever they choose to have x or do y?

      Answer those questions simply and positively. So while you’re scrabbling for examples of how you fixed poorly fitting teapot lids, sit up straight and say, ‘Yes. When I was assistant teapot wrangler I…’ Even if you don’t think your example is a great fit for what they’re asking, behave as if it completely is.

      Then if you can, try to work your new understanding of what they want into your subsequent statements and questions.

  7. anonderella*

    on a business card, what is the difference between:

    an office number
    a office number with extension
    a direct number
    a cell number

    obviously, I understand the difference between office/cell numbers, but “direct” throws me off. And when all of these are present, I really have no idea what number to enter into our system.
    I’ve googled on this for weeks, and still don’t really understand.

    1. ZVA*

      In my office, my direct line is what an outside caller would dial to call me, well, directly (without going through our receptionist).

      It’s a different number from our main line.

    2. Another Lawyer*

      Office number = main number, likely to speak with a receptionist
      Office number with an extension = you dial the main number and can input/ask for the extension
      Direct number = call the phone of the person directly, but still an office number
      Cell = cell

      2. Amber T*

        Nice and simple. This probably varies a bit by office, but the office number with extension is *probably* only used outside normal business hours (or whenever the receptionist isn’t there), when the automatic voicemail system will ask you if you want to enter your party’s extension.

        Listing the top three together seems a bit overkill, tbh.

    3. Karo*

      In my office, office with extension is typically an 800 number that gets you straight to the person, while direct is a local number that also gets you straight to the person.

    4. Amtelope*

      Office number means the number for the person’s office, which may or may not be answered by a receptionist. Office number with extension means that you’ll definitely get either a receptionist or automatic phone system, and will need to say or key in the extension to reach the person you’re calling. Direct number means it’ll ring through straight to the person you’re calling, no receptionist involved.

    5. Amy Farrah Fowler*

      I think the “office number” would be the main office line (the one that would be answered by a receptionist or a recording that will get you to the directory). The office number with extension tells you the main line and also that person’s extension. A direct line would call that person only. As far as what to put in the system, that will depend on whether you need to always reach that person directly, or whether it would be better to reach someone at the company if they are out or unavailable at that moment.

    6. EA*

      An office # is typically the main # or receptionist … Depending on their phone system, you may be able to enter the extension # on your phone, or you may have to ask the receptionist “Could you please transfer me to Sam at extension 12345?”

      A direct line will typically be the phone that is physically on that person’s desk, as in it rings directly to them.

      In some cases, people may list their direct # as the office #, particularly if there isn’t a receptionist. For example, my dept. doesn’t have an admin or receptionist, so if I had business cards, I’d probably just list my direct # as “Work” or “Office”

    7. LCL*

      Office number usually means one person is answering the phone for a group and will be able to take messages, contact them. Reporting relationship associated with this varies widely. Sometimes but less common, if someone says call my office they mean call my direct number, I am the only person that answers that phone.

      Office number with extension-the extension is associated with one person, you will either talk to a live person and ask for extension X, or key it into your phone.

      Direct number-you call, the person you are looking for answers. Usually. May be routed to others via voicemail if the company has a voicemail system and the person is out of office. Again, this may be phrased as call my office but means call me directly, I answer my office phone exclusively.

      Cell number-you call, the person you are looking for answers. Here, where most of our calls are internal, it is widely understood but not stated that you call a person’s cell if you want to talk to them right now, but you will call their office number if you want them to do job functions that can be routed in.

      Personal cell-can mean the person is up to something nefarious and doesn’t want the company involved. Usually means my company phone is broken or sitting on my nightstand at home or lost, but I still want you to be able to reach me.

    8. Sibley*

      office number – you get the front desk
      office number with extension – person’s desk
      direct number – person’s desk
      cell number – person. be careful if this is a personal cell.

    9. anonderella*

      @ everyone

      Hm, that basically answers my question about what it means. Thanks!

      My company uses outlook, and there is no “direct” number label available when creating a contact.
      So, when all of these numbers are listed on a business card (office + extension, cell, and direct), is there anything lost by disincluding the “direct” number? Or is it a preferable number to the office + extension? Or, is that what the “primary” label means (for other Outlook users)?

      Short question, if I could only include the cell and one other number, what is the best one to put?

      Longer question, how on earth am I seeing business cards with office + extension, direct, and cell?? How can they have two numbers that go to their office? Or are they trying to indicate these numbers reach them at different places, but not specifying where? so lost.

      1. TootsNYC*

        Short question, if I could only include the cell and one other number, what is the best one to put?

        I’d put the direct one. If I call, I want to get them directly, right?

        The advantage of having the “office” number is that you might get a receptionist who would redirect you if that person is out.
        Is there “work” and “main”? You could use the “work” label for the direct number, and “main” for the office number.

      2. Marisol*

        If you’re managing contacts for one or two other people as an assistant, you’ll probably want to check to see the format they’re already using and/or ask them. In general, when I input a business card, I think about what is the most likely way my boss will reach out to the person. Usually, he’ll start with the direct land line. So, that goes on the “business” drop down. Cell has its own line. I usually put the main line, i.e. reception, on “business 2.” If there are other funky numbers, I put them in the notes section with the appropriate label, like this:

        South Dakota Summer Home: 310-555-1212
        2nd Assistant, Delilah Pupendorf: 310-555-1234

        For lines with extensions, I enter the number on the “business 1” or “business 2” line and go ahead and use text to denote the extension:

        310-555-1212 x1234

        Any text you input will cause you to lose the auto-dial function, where someone can click on the number from their cell phone and have it ring automatically. I have never had this be a problem but for some people it would, so be advised.

        In general, I never, ever, ever redact information on a business card, except things like company slogans, which I will omit. If there are ten different phone numbers, that information gets inputted. Pick the two or three most important ones to match to the dropdown menu, then stick the others in the notes section.

        You might do a few sample contacts, print them out, and show to your supervisor to make sure you are following best practices for your company.

        As to why companies do complicated phone number systems…each company has a different approach to managing workflow and information. It’s not uncommon to have different phone numbers ring to the same phone, or sometimes an office has a main desk phone, plus an auxiliary phone, although that’s usually not listed on the card…there’s just a kajillion ways to implement phone systems. I don’t think there’s a practical way to answer that one.

        Hope that helps.

        1. Marisol*

          Forgot to say two things.

          1) it is certainly possible to add any text you want to the phone numbers text box. So if you want to note a line as “direct” for some reason, go for it.

          310-555-1212 direct

          As I mentioned, this will prevent anyone from autodialing by clicking on the number link.

          2) I think that in some cases, a “direct” line and a main line plus extension collapse into one. So, 310-555-1212 x8888 is the same as 310-555-8888. So if you notice that pattern, you could probably omit the extension line, and just list the direct line.

      3. NotCanadian*

        My direct number is my cell phone because I’m a remote employee. I think it varies office to office, but I’d generally say that if a direct number is offered, it’s usually the best way to reach the person.

      4. Marisol*

        I just reread your question and see I skipped something. Regarding “primary,” I personally don’t use that one, possibly because it falls low, visually, on the list, but also maybe because it is less specific than “business.” I have a feeling this is the case with a lot of people but I really don’t know.

        The thing is, Microsoft designed Outlook to be somewhat customizable, as much as one can customize within the office suite. So there is no absolute best answer–it is ultimately a question of what works best for you. That’s something for your boss/your peers in the office to decide.

        Additionally, whatever fields are populated will show up when you click open a contact, as long as there are not more than 4. (If you open a contact, you’ll see that four data boxes for phone numbers show up. If you’ve inputted more than 4, then the others will be hidden.) Usually, a business contact has fewer than four phone numbers. So whether you label the number “primary” or “business” or whatever, it will still show up on the screen, easily accessible. So the exact label is probably not as important as is, say, inputting the number correctly.

      5. Snazzy Hat*

        I had one job where I had a phone and an extension, but no direct line. To reach me, you had to either be an internal caller (dial only the extension) or call the front desk and ask for extension ABCD. Calling what should have been my direct line resulted in a “your call could not be completed as dialed” message.

        My last job’s phone situation was worse: I could only make outgoing calls to other extensions because my phone didn’t *have* an extension. No calls could come through to me, and I showed up as something like “unknown” to my co-workers. Luckily, making and receiving phone calls was not part of my job, but geez.

      6. Mephyle*

        Which number is better to put depends on a number of things:
        Are you usually at your desk or generally away from your desk? How does your voice mail system work? Is there a human receptionist, and if so, are they good at finding people, at taking messages, at giving callers an idea where to find you or when you will be back?
        Do you want to receive calls, or does it work better for you to have people leave messages for you?
        The answers to these and similar questions will determine what number you should give. Consider the needs of your callers and why they typically call you – how urgent is it that they reach you right away when they call? If they want you, is it only you who can help them or are they better served by being directed to someone else if you’re not there? Which of your numbers can accomplish the desired effect?

      7. kittymommy*

        In my industry the best number is going to be the main office line, but I think it’ll depend on the office , accepted practice, and the person/job involved. Some positions are at their desk all day, or most of the day and the direct line would make sense, but if you’re in a job that is out a lot, then I would think running through the main line would be best as their may be someone else that can be of assistance.

      8. anonderella*

        @ (more) everyone

        Wow! Thank you so much – I’ve been missing out on the last few weeks of open threads by getting there too late; I saw it open up today and zipped my question out.

        Thanks again!

        (ps to Alison – thank you/not thank you for sharing the TinyKittens live stream this week; me, my mom and coworker are all a lot more invested in a cat we’ve never met than we should be.
        and a pregnant giraffe, by association/proximity to that chat room.)

  8. Mona Lisa*

    I have a question that I’m hoping someone might be able to answer for me. In my previous two jobs I worked with a particular CRM pretty closely, but in my current job, though I’ve been advocating for it to be implemented, it’s likely that it won’t be before I leave. I’m starting to look at other job openings now that my husband is finishing his doctorate, and I found one that relates back to the work I did with the CRM. On my resume, should I keep my work history in chronological order as it is right now, or should I create two sections (“relevant experience” and “other experience”) to get the most relevant jobs to the top of the page?

    Additionally, this CRM offers on-line courses and tutorials that I’ve been working through on my own to gain more experience with different areas of the system. Should I include this information somewhere? Maybe in the cover letter? It looks like I could also connect it to my LinkedIn profile, but I’ve always been wary of that. (For example, I don’t think my status in Duolingo automatically reflects my “level of language fluency” so I haven’t synced that.)

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

    1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      So you’ve had three jobs (including your current job), and the current job is the only one that’s not directly relevant? If it’s just those three, I’d keep it in reverse-chron order, because ostensibly your current job includes transferrable skills. Two sections would be overkill if there are only three jobs you want to report on your resume. But if you’ve had a bunch more jobs than those three, then I would begin to figure out what can be cut.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        Technically I have four positions on my resume (at three institutions) because the two positions I had at OldJob were pretty different. (I went from being essentially office manager with a side component of migrating our CRM to managing the CRM.) Should I collapse those two into one heading and keep the most relevant bullets from each position to streamline it, or should I keep them separate?

        1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          So it may depend. I had two positions at one employer, and the positions were completely different (think Staff Attorney v. Legal Director). I represent it as:

          EMPLOYER NAME, City, State
            Position #1 Title, Dates of Service
              Bullet Point
              Bullet Point
            Position #2 Title, Dates of Service
              Bullet Point
              Bullet Point

          However, if my position is mostly the same but reflects a title/seniority change, I put it down as:

          EMPLOYER NAME, City, State
            Senior Teapot Assembler, Dates of Service
            Teapot Assembler, Dates of Service
              Bullet Point
              Bullet Point

    2. College Career Counselor*

      If you have enough experience to do a “relevant experience” section, I think that’s the approach I would take. Keeps the relevant skills/experience higher up on your resume. I would not put the online tutorials/courses in your resume at all. I wouldn’t just list it in your cover letter either–use it as a way to show that you’re a self-starter/motivated learner and ideally how you’re using these skills now.

      Good luck!

      1. Mona Lisa*

        Oh, yes, I definitely wouldn’t just list what I’ve done on the cover letter. Ideally, it would be a paragraph about how, even though at CurrentJob we don’t currently use the specific CRM, I’ve been keeping my skills up-to-date and preparing myself for CurrentJob’s conversion by doing these on-line tutorials.

        I have 3/4 jobs that have some direct link to the CRM. I’ve always had my resume in reverse chronological order, but I was wondering if moving my most current position to “other experience” below the relevant experience would help make it clearer why I’m applying for these positions at first glance.

        1. Mona Lisa*

          I should mention that the position for which I’m considering applying doesn’t require a cover letter as its through a recruiting site, but I plan to treat the e-mail body as an opportunity to outline some of my experience and why I feel I’d be a good fit for the position.

  9. New Girl*

    I need some advice. I have an employee in a customer facing role. She’s overall great at her job except one thing. She’s not personable and she always looks unhappy. I’m not sure if I should just let it go or if this is something I need to have her work on. I have had multiple customers comment on how she’s more of it get it done kind of person. Doesn’t chat or do pleasantries. I’m conflicted because I don’t need her to be friends with customers or even like them but a part of her job is being friendly to make customers want to come back. Thoughts?

    1. Amtelope*

      I think in a customer-facing role it’s fair to give this feedback. I’d reassure her that you’re happy with the rest of her work, but tell her “When you’re talking to customers, you need to smile, say ‘hi, how can I help you?’ (or whatever), and make sure you’re not coming across as impatient to get back to other work. Helping customers is an important part of our work, and customers need to feel welcome to approach us, not like we see them as interruptions.”

      1. Grits McGee*

        Working on verbal friendliness/customer service scripts was so helpful when I was in customer service roles. Facial expressions (especially “concentrate face”) can be difficult to change in the short term and a forced smile can look worse than RBF, but tone/word choice/salutations are great concrete suggestions and easier changes to make than trying to fight your facial muscles.

        1. AMPG*

          Agreed – I would focus more on the verbal warmth, especially since there can be a lot of messy gendered stuff around facial expressions that isn’t relevant or fair to a competent employee who’s just not a naturally smiley person.

          1. Amtelope*

            I, hmm. I think it’s inappropriate to ask female employees (or any employees, but this often falls on women) to smile all the time, or when dealing with their co-workers. But when you’re actively engaging with clients/the public, I don’t think the smile is optional. It’s part of visibly shifting gears from “concentrating on something else” to “focusing on the client in a friendly and engaged way.”

            1. zora*

              I don’t think it has to be literally “Smile or Nothing” though, that’s not really an accurate dichotomy. I have definitely talked to people in customer-facing situations about just working on their body and facial language. Standing up straight, having a ‘pleasant’ and open expression on their face. It doesn’t have to technically be a smile, but there is a difference between a frown with a furrowed brow and an open facial expression, raised eyebrows, etc.

              It is definitely not something that can be changed over night, and takes some practice, but it is a good skill to coach. I basically focused on what to think to make your face and body more approachable. You can “Think” a smile, and consciously brighten your face and think “I am looking interested and approachable.” and the words you say to customers then go along with that and reinforce it.

              But yes, it is important to avoid making it sound simplistic and just “telling a woman to smile.” it’s not about “smiling more” it’s about “presenting a positive and open persona to customers.”

      1. fposte*

        “Doesn’t chat or do pleasantries” would seem to cover it for me. Those are usually important in a customer-facing role, and I would give feedback based on that.

      2. New Girl*

        Not really engaging the customer. Lack of pleasantries. Occasional apathetic tone of voice.

        1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          These sound like performance problems that merit feedback/correction. If she’s in a customer-facing role, it’s expected that she has customer service skills… which include being personable, chatting/pleasantries and an approachable demeanor. To be approachable, her body language, tone of voice, and expressions should be accessible/inviting/responsive. She doesn’t have to smile to do have an “accessible expression”—I wouldn’t tell her to smile—but she shouldn’t seem like she’s channeling April Ludgate.

        2. paul*

          focus on that, not the face. Unless she’s actively scowling at people or giving them the stink eye…I mean, if someone just has that sort of face there isn’t much they can do unless you want a forced smile non-stop (also incredibly creepy!)

        3. mb*

          In our reference training this was framed as “being approachable” – because if you use personality words like “friendly”/”personable” it may sound more like an indictment of personality, whereas feedback about being approachable just sounds like another work skill. So it was a list of traits like open posture, eye contact, smile and greeting when someone looks at you/seems like they’re about to approach you. It comes across more as standard job training than “you need to be more like some other personality.”

    3. SophieChotek*

      I admit I’m a little confused how she can be “overall great” yet “not personable, looks unhappy” if the primary focus of her job is customer-facing. Yet at the same time, working in a coffee shop, and tending to be happier doing “the work (i.e. washing dishes, making the drinks, prepping)” than talking to customers, I understand…but eventually I realized part of the job was being personable with the customers — making them feel welcome. they didn’t just come back for the product, they liked to feel welcome and noticed. Maybe that might help your employee see it isn’t just “faking being nice” because you-said-so — it really can be about building a relationship with customers (not to be friends outside the store/office), so that they come back to this store/vendor/office, instead of the one down the road that charges the same, or even charges less, or has better parking.

    4. RVA Cat*

      Please, just make sure what you’re looking for is the exact same you would expect from a man in the same position.

      1. New Girl*

        All the men in the same position as her display all the “personableness” I would like her to have. As do the other women.

        1. Zathras*

          New Girl, something that might help navigate the unfortunate gender angle of this is to use the men as examples of good behaviors when you are coaching her.

    5. Anon Accountant*

      Encourage her to take an interest in customers. You’d be surprised how far a comment about the weather can take you for example.

      “Thought about putting away my snow shovel but glad I didn’t! Do you like snow?” Etc.

      1. PollyQ*

        I would say this very much depends. If I’m popping in somewhere as a customer for a quick transaction, I would MUCH rather we just stick to the business at hand rather than be asked irrelevant time-wasting questions by the person who’s supposed to be doing a task. If we’re both waiting while some process finishes, then I don’t mind a little chit-chat.

    6. HeyNonnyNonny*

      A counterpoint: I don’t necessarily like friendly or chatty customer service representatives; I prefer someone efficient and quick. If I described someone as a ‘get it done kind of person,’ that would be an incredible compliment from me!

      1. Marisol*

        yeah, while on the one hand it seems common-sensical that you’d want to coach someone serving customers to be friendly, I’d still want to confirm that the feedback the OP was getting from customers was actually negative.

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        I’m the same way, HeyNonnyNonny. Just finish the task at hand and let me get on my way.

    7. Jadelyn*

      I can definitely see addressing it with her, since her job is customer-facing and that’s part of the skills she needs to show on the job.

      If/when you do, I’d frame it as a question of task-oriented vs relationship-oriented, because that helps it feel less like a value judgment on “you’re not good enough with people” and more “your natural tendency is A, but this role needs to show equal amounts A and B, so you need to work on adding more B to your demeanor.” That’s the framing that’s helped me, because I am super task-oriented but I also know that I need to at least give lip service to relationship-oriented behaviors. I actually have to remind myself when I answer the phone that I need to start with a greeting rather than just jumping in with “Hey Wakeen, what can I do for you?”, and framing it as balancing my natural tendency towards being task-oriented with the need for my role to have relationship-oriented elements has helped me not be resentful or annoyed about doing that.

    8. The Rat-Catcher*

      Is she greeting them when they approach? Having been both a customer and a customer service rep, that is one of the most important things. Customers should not have to feel like they are interrupting you. It’s a tangible item to work on, without being gendered.
      I’ve had plenty of reps that had RBF that I was perfectly satisfied with. It’s about creating a rapport with the customer. A lot of people find that smiling makes that easier, but it can be done without it.

    9. Troutwaxer*

      If she’s not good with people, maybe coach her on a couple small talk kinds of subjects: “How’s the wife and kids?” Or “Lovely weather we’re having today.”

  10. Anon Anon*

    So, I have an interview scheduled and it’s for a senior level position and the interview is scheduled for an hour. It’s the only interview. To me this is a red flag. All other positions of this nature that I’ve interviewed for have resulted in multiple interviews, with one being at least half a day where I meet the staff who would be reporting to me, directors of the other departments, etc.

    The Glassdoor reviews are older, nothing from the last two years, and they are mixed. Plus there has been a change in leadership within the last couple of years.

    So is the length of the interview a red flag or am I just being paranoid?

    1. The Other Dawn*

      Since this is your first scheduled interview and you haven’t gone yet, how would you know whether or not there will be more to come? If they’re interested after the first one, then presumably there will/may be further interviews. If they’re not, then that would by your only one. Did they specifically say that this will be the only interview and they’ll make a decision from there? If so, then I’d think that’s a bit strange for a senior level position.

      1. Anon Anon*

        Yes, they told me it was the only planned interview. Of course, they may opt to schedule a second one, but they specifically told me that they don’t do multiple round interviews. I just found it very odd, because the last time I had one interview with a decision based on that interview was almost 20 years ago.

    2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      I think you might be paranoid. I’ve interviewed at places where the practice was to have multiple interviews, and at others where the practice is one interview with the decision-maker. It honestly depends on the nature of the position, and the organization’s culture and size. But it’s not inherently a red flag. Why not go, check it out, and see how you feel after?

      1. Anon Anon*

        I’m going to go. I just seems very off to me. I’m meeting with the person who would be my supervisor, an HR rep, and one person who would be a direct report, all at the same time.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I think it’s a red flag, personally — but when I’ve written here before that I think hiring on the basis of one intervew is a really bad idea, I’ve gotten a lot of pushback from people who apparently are in industries where that’s common. I still think it’s a red flag though — about their rigor, about who your coworkers might be, and about how likely you both are to know if it’s the right fit or not.

      1. Anon Anon*

        Thanks. If I was in an industry where one interview was the norm that wouldn’t surprise me. But, even for low level (coordnator, assistant, etc.) type positions most places do at least two interviews. This position has three direct reports and about 10 indirect reports. It just seems very off.

        1. Minerva McGonagall*

          Do you have a connection at / to the company? That’s the only thing I can think of where one interview would make sense, because a trusted colleague has vouched for your work and they are just interviewing to assess fit?

          1. Anon Anon*

            I met the new CEO there at a workshop a few months ago and we spoke for perhaps 10 minutes. That is literally it. And I get the impression that they aren’t interviewing anyone multiple times. That their entire candidate pool is going through the same thing.

  11. The Other Dawn*

    It’s benefit enrollment time at my company and I’m trying to decide if I should switch over to the HSA plan. I’ve been on the standard copay-based plan for years and I’m nervous about going to an HSA or HRA. How do I go about deciding whether the copay-based plan is better or if the HSA or HRA makes more sense? It’s just my husband and I with no plan to have children and we’re in good health. I have to admit the HSA and HRA premiums are very attractive.

    1. Natalie*

      I found some pretty handy calculators online that took into account the differences in premiums, taxes, and deductible. Do you have a decent idea of how much medical spending you have in a given year?

    2. Graciosa*

      If you’re looking only at premiums, you’re not making a fair comparison. You need to assume you will be making regular contributions to your HSA account in larger amounts to ensure you can cover higher potential expenses.

      In my case, this was still a better deal and I’m happy with the decision (which I think is typical – IF you are disciplined about ensuring you have the savings in hand) but you need to be sure you’re not going to get hit with a bill you can’t pay.

      This means not relying on the hope of continued good health instead of actually having access to the money you need.

    3. BenAdminGeek*

      I obviously don’t know your personal situation. In general, employers find that employees over-cover themselves- they could pay less and come out ahead, but want the security blanket of the lower deductible. If your company does an employer match, that really improves the HSA. If not, I still tend to favor them due to the tax-favored nature of the savings and the lower premiums. I did find that it took a year of not having a lot of doctor’s visits to really start making the HSA work well for me. Once I started to build up that nest egg it worked well. For what it’s worth, I do have children and we’ve still found it advantageous.

      I’m not a fan of HRA plans just due to the restrictions a lot of employers/plans place on them, but some folks love them.

    4. NotMyRealName*

      Questions to consider (we just did this and here were our main things) Will your employer contribute to the HSA account? Can you cover the deductible? What is your/your spouses health situation?

      We went HSA, my employer contributes to our account and it’s been very helpful for stuff that wouldn’t have been covered.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Yeah, my husband a couple years ago had an odd plan, it wasn’t an HSA but some other similar term… his employer covered the first $1500 of a $3000 deductible, there was the “donut hole” where we were on the hook for the next $1500 in expenses, and then the rest was covered 100%. Depending on your finances and healthcare needs it actually worked pretty well.

        1. AMPG*

          I was on one of those – a high-deductible HRA plan. It worked really well as long as you didn’t have anything catastrophic happen; we only had one year when we had to pay our portion of the deductible, and that was the year I gave birth.

          1. ThatGirl*

            Well, and to me a $1500 deductible isn’t so bad, especially when everything is covered 100% after that.

    5. Lizzle*

      I would start by measuring the difference in premiums over a year + any amount your employer is putting into the HSA for you vs. the difference in deductibles. At my workplace, the company puts half of my deductible into the account over the course of one year, and my premiums are also significantly lower, so the math was really conclusive. Basically if I just put in the premium savings, after a year I’d have my full deductible amount in the account.

      Then you may want to go on to factor in the cost of your copays, and if there is a different out-of-pocket maximum between the plans make sure that you could float either cost in an emergency.

    6. The Other Dawn*

      My employer will contribute 1,300.00 total for the HSA or 500.00 total for the HRA plan.

      Ok, so I would need to make contributions in addition to whatever premiums I pay, correct? I didn’t know that. Not sure what I was thinking. I guess I thought that the premiums went into the account. I know, I know. Health insurance mystifies me.

      1. Lisa from scenic Michigan*

        You should contribute so you always have enough to cover the out of pocket costs in addition to the deductible.

        Because anything can happen! Bodies are tricky that way.

      2. Anomanom*

        You can contribute, you do not have to (on most plans). HSA is great for two reasons though – the funds roll over and are portable. So you can build up enough to cover your deductible then leave it and not contribute if you want, or slowly build it up over time. If you leave your job, the account is yours and you can continue to use those funds or roll them into another HSA.

        If you are healthy, they are a great option to keep your health costs lower and instead save those funds for the future. They are not a 1 size fix though, if you have a lot of doctor’s visits is can add up, and until you build up your HSA there is a window that you may take a big financial hit if there is an unforseen issue. I am a big fan of them, but this is why I dislike when people try to push them on everyone.

    7. Lisa from scenic Michigan*

      I’ve been on an HSA plan for a couple of years, and I have mixed feelings about it.

      It’s good for folks who are heavy utilizers of health care, or who never use it at all. For example, a coworker hits their deductible AND out of pocket costs by February of each calendar year. The rest of their care is covered 100% for the year. Of course, if you’re healthy and just get mostly preventative care, that’s inexpensive or mostly likely covered.

      I’m somewhere in between. I’m 45 and have a couple of chronic conditions that need meds and monitoring (asthma, depression). I’ve had a few female internal parts issues that have been getting treatment. So, I don’t hit the out of pocket tier…I think I hit my deductible last year? It’s one more thing to keep track of, IMHO. And I don’t necessarily think it makes me a better “health consumer” because it’s not like you can really shop around for health care prices.

      Just giving you my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps! I’ll peek back if you have more questions. :-)

    8. Rowan*

      I thought I was “in fairly good health” until I switched to an HDHP/HSA. (I’m a woman in my early forties with no major ailments). Then I discovered I had allergies and needed immunotherapy, and even that relatively minor concern blew the savings-cost calculation out of the water, especially with all the testing to even figure out it was allergies.

      I know this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem for the US, in that medical costs won’t come down until more people are on HDHPs (and even then, it’s dubious), but with medical costs the way they are now, it doesn’t make financial sense for most people to be on an HDHP.

    10. CDM*

      We switched to a HSA last year.

      DH’s employer had a rough cost/benefit analysis on their enrollment info packet. For their two plans, the highest and lowest consumers of healthcare benefit from the HSA/HDP, the ones in the middle do better with the higher cost plan and the medical FSA account. We have been pretty consistently at the bottom of that higher consumer spending tier, so it looked like the HSA would benefit us.

      Essentially, DH and I were both contributing the max $2,500 to our FSAs, and spending all of it on us and the kids. Switching to the HSA meant contributing the same amount overall to the HSA that we did to two FSAs, (plus his employer contributes to the HSA since they are paying less in premium) plus a reduction in our premium, so our fixed expenses dropped by about $2,500. A full year’s contributions to the HSA is more than our family out of pocket max on the HDP policy, so unless we go overboard on glasses or dental implants or something not covered by insurance, we should never run out of money in the HSA account to pay the medical bills.

      I found after the switch that certain preventative healthcare and prescriptions were free with the HSA where we paid copays and deductibles with the old plan, so we saved money there that I had budgeted into our withholding. We did end up with an unexpectedly very light healthcare year, so we carried more than expected over to the current year.

      The thing to beware with the HSA, is you can’t spend money that isn’t in the account, unlike a FSA. I held my breath the first few months (and mentally cursed when one kid ended up in 3x/week PT at the end of January) One big accident or illness early in the year could have been bad. Took us about 4 months to build up the equivalent to one person’s deductible in the HSA. With rollover money, that’s not a concern for us for subsequent years.

      I am finding that our routine stuff isn’t costing significantly more now that I’m paying “in full” (negotiated rates) instead of a copay. Especially considering that we’re saving $2,500 in premium per year. Paying $60 to the dermatologist or $70 to urgent care when the copay was $50 is NBD. Primary care bills run us $30-$40 when the copay was $25. Orthopedist bill with x-rays was $180, would have been $50 copay plus $80 or $90 for the x-rays as part of the deductible.

      And with the HSA debit card, I don’t have to upload every single receipt, like I did with the FSA debit card.

      Once I got over the sensation that we had jumped off a cliff and weren’t quite sure the airbag at the bottom was inflated, it’s been a good move for our situation.

      1. Judy*

        You can’t spend money that’s not in the account, but you are allowed to submit items for that year later. So once there is enough money in the account you can submit a bill. Yes, you have to have the float to be able to pay it and then get it paid back.

        One co-worker wasn’t planning on putting money in there, above what the company contribution was. Then one of his kids broke a leg. He increased his contribution for the rest of the year, and got the money (pre-tax) back as it went into the account.

    11. Trout 'Waver*

      I’m a huge fan of HSAs in general. I’d suggest running the numbers 3 ways: 1. No health needs for the year, 2. the average for someone your age, and 3. a maxed out deductible. Compare the numbers. If you’re relatively young and healthy, you’re going to most likely be in category 1. and your insurance is to protect you from category 3.

      Once you get a full year’s deductible in your HSA, the peace of mind is incredible.

      Also, remember that you’re getting your health care in tax free dollars with an HSA, so that’s a straight discount at your marginal tax rate on top of everything else.

    12. Artemesia*

      How do they work? If they are catastrophic coverage coupled with an HSA then I would do that with your current status especially if the HSA is adequate to cover your annual routine stuff. The most important thing about health insurance when you have pretty good income is insuring against the indefinite high side. it is like trip insurance which we never bought when young — ultimately you don’t need to insure lost tickets or luggage — if you can afford to travel you can afford to lose that money. What you need to insure is the need for air ambulance home which can bankrupt you. Same with health insurance when you have a decent income — you are guarding against that cancer diagnosis that will cost a million dollars.

      I’d look at your usual costs and just compare the policies to see which puts you ahead. And be very sure you have very good catastrophic insurance not one with enormous co-pays.

      1. Natalie*

        High deductible health plans with HSAs are different than catastrophic coverage. They have standard health coverage once you hit that deductible.

      2. Jennifer M.*

        Under a HDHP you pay everything out of pocket until you hit the deductible. At that point coverage can be anywhere from 70% them/30 you to 100% them. When I say you pay out of pocket, you don’t pay sticker price. You pay whatever rate the insurance company has negotiated with the service provider (ie if a cardiologist has a sticker price of $500 per visit, but his contract with Aetna says he can only bill $100 per visit and you are under an Aetna HDHP, you pay $100 out of pocket until you hit your deductible).

        In 2017 the minimum deductible in an HDHP is $1,300 for single coverage and $2,600 for family coverage. The maximum deductible is $6,550 for single coverage and $13,100 for family coverage.

        And remember that Out of Pocket Maximum is a completely separate number. Say your single coverage deductible is $1,300 but your OOPM is $7,000. After you hit your deductible, your coverage is 70/30 (usually the lower the deductible, the higher the percentage you have to pay after hitting the deductible) . So you are in a really bad accident. You have to pay the first $1,300 of your medical bills. Then the insurance kicks in and they start paying 70% of the costs and you pay 30% until your total spent in that insurance plan year (which may or may not match the calendar year) hits $7,000. After that the insurance plan covers everything. Of course the out of pocket maximum only includes covered services so if you have a procedure that isn’t covered, that is separate from the $7,000.

        1. The Other Dawn*

          So, say something isn’t a covered service and I have to pay for it. Could I use the HSA money to pay for it? Or would I need to use money I have in my checking account (or wherever)?

          2. Trout 'Waver*

            Yup. Common examples of things that you can use HSA funds for include contacts, LASIK, and dental procedures.

            Also, if you make it to 65, your HSA essentially converts to a traditional IRA.

          3. Kinsley M.*

            You *can* use HSA funds for expenses that are not covered by the IRS. However, you will pay a rather hefty tax, similar to if you’d take out money from your 401K early.

            1. Natalie*

              Also, if you pay for something with your HSA funds and then later get a check from your insurance company for that same thing, you have to deposit the insurance reimbursement in the HSA or it’s considered a non-qualifying withdrawal with the same tax hit.

    13. The Rat-Catcher*

      Everyone else has given really good advice. The only thing I will add is to do your own calculations – don’t necessarily trust the samples presented by your company.
      At my company, they sell us on HSAs hardcore. Their tax-benefit calculation assumes the 25% tax bracket – conveniently ignoring the fact that only those with “director” in their title are paid enough to fall into that. Most of us are more like 15%. It doesn’t mean HSAs aren’t worth looking at, but it changes the numbers.

    14. Overeducated*

      I chose a regular copay plan over an HSA for my exchange plan this year. My reasoning:

      The copay plan has a deductible that’s only about $200 lower than the HDHP, but has predictable copays for most common services. Premiums were less than 15% more expensive than the HDHP. So the out of pocket costs at our current low level of health care consumption were fairly similar for both, and the HSA had the chance of leaving us financially better off at the end of the year.

      BUT my mom switched to a HDHP recently, and she said there is a noticeable administrative time commitment to file your bills to pay from the HSA. I also spent a lot of time during pregnancy calling my insurance company, provider network, and individual providers and hospitals trying to get cost and coverage estimates to be a “responsible” consumer (which they mostly said they couldn’t give me until after billing, so I couldn’t make decisions with cost in mind!). In my current job I just don’t have the time to spend on that. A small tax free savings incentive would not be worth the headache, or the sense that I would be gambling financially every time I took my kid to the doctor.

      So I am spending more for more traditional coverage. YMMV – since my parents just retired, they have time and need to cut costs, so the HSA is better for them.

    15. copy run start*

      I almost switched to the HDHP+HSA this last benefit year, but I realized at the last minute that a medicine I rely on wouldn’t have been covered under the HDHP. My employer advertised the HDHP as covering certain preventative/maintenance medications completely vs. the copays required under the traditional plan, but my medicine wasn’t on the list. Instead of paying $15 for 90 days I would’ve had to pay cash price (~$50 for 90 days) until I hit my (now higher) deductible. In my calculations the deductible was high enough that I was coming out behind, even with employer reimbursement.

      So if there’s a schedule of benefits or formulary provided that’s different from your companies other plans, I suggest reading it very carefully. My pharmacy recently starting posting the cash price on my receipts, but Good RX might also have local pricing for you.

  12. Folklorist*

    It’s your wet and gross and cold outside (at least in my corner of the world) ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!!! What have you been putting off? Go and do it and come back to brag about it! Rip that crusty old bandaid off and feel free!

    For me, I’ve been avoiding sending a rejection email to a writer that I had previously told we were accepting (ouch–my boss overruled me after the fact). I need to find a way to let this young writer down while still encouraging him. Sigh.

    2. Purest Green*

      :(

      Would it be a no-no to suggest other place he might submit pieces to, and say his submission or whatever isn’t a good fit for your publication this month (or whatever makes sense)?

      1. Folklorist*

        Yeah, I’m going to coach him on ways to tweak it and make it more suitable. He’s honestly a better writer than we usually get; the submission just wasn’t right this time. I’m also going to recommend that he apply for a columnist opening that we will likely have available in the next few months.

        I just feel so bad for telling him yes first! (I ran it by my boss first and he agreed, so I gave the guy the good news–then boss thought more about it and nixed it. I wasn’t trying to get his hopes up!)

    3. Lizabeth*

      I came to the library today to work on “stuff” since there’s no good place at home to do it (no extra bedroom for an office setup, just the corner of the master bedroom) It seems to be working out. I don’t think they’d let me bring my sewing machine but I could do hand embroidery!

    4. Sarasaurus*

      FY18 BUDGETS! I promised my clients a working draft before I leave for vacation on Tuesday, so I actually can’t put it off any longer. Lucky for me, I work much better with a deadline looming.

    5. Kowalski! Options!*

      Our city uses a smartcard system for transit passes and fares, and I finally got around (four years later) to registering and being able to buy my passes online. It probably wasn’t smart to do it on the last day of the month, I guess (what should have taken 10 minutes ended up taking almost an hour), but it’s done.

    6. Snazzy Hat*

      About ten job applications. I went to a job fair last week, and I’ve been looking through the local job listings too. Working one day a week has led to me getting pretty lazy on non-work days. For example, I woke up a little after noon today. Gonna try for at least three applications today, but five would be ideal (and I’ve completed that many in one day before).

      Also, taxes. It counts as work-related because I have to file a 1040 + Schedule E for rental income. I filled out the “does not apply” sections months ago. I need to sit down with all of my bills and expense receipts from last year and actually do calculations. I keep acting as if it’s more difficult than it really is. I keep everything where it belongs; it’s just tedious.

    7. Raia*

      I did my taxes! Finally! I used TaxAct and submitted Fed and state, and I hina I hit submit local. Not sure.

      Off to fun busy weekend!!! I’m so glad I took the day off today for me time.

    8. HeyNonnyNonny*

      Finished a slide deck of THREE total slides that I’d been putting off. Aaaaaand now I feel silly for leaving it for so long.

    9. Charlie Q*

      I got back from vacation this morning and fully unpacked within two hours of getting home, which kind of clears me of all procrastination-related guilt for the rest of the day! ;) Or not. But I am getting a haircut, which I’ve been putting off.

    10. Zis*

      I was putting off updating the “insurance bible” for our property, mostly because the drawer all the tenant documents that are left to update is in an inconvenient spot. Then I got told they were transferring me to another property. Now I’ve finished it and my previous feels like it’s twisted 20° wrong. But it’s worth it. no more 45 minute drive for me!

  13. He got it at Jared!*

    Piggybacking off of one of the discussions this morning – can you think of any reasons why an employee would not get a cost of living increase, other than they are at the top of the scale or budget for that particular role? The comments on #2 got me wondering what other possibilities there could be.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Company is not making a profit. I haven’t gotten a raise, and I’m sure it’s because we’re not making enough money so no one is getting raises. They probably figure: at least you have a job versus the X people we laid off instead.

    2. Nan*

      Because they aren’t a Thing at a lot of placed. For us, if you don’t meet a minimum criteria in your review, you don’t get squat.

      1. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

        This. One of my previous companies made it very clear that annual raises were given on merit alone, not cost of living – only people who averaged 3 out of 5 on their annual review would get raises. (Unfortunately, this was much easier said than done in certain departments, including the one I worked in. The managers were notorious for dinging for really tiny things so scores didn’t quite average to 3. It was kind of an open secret that the only way to get a raise in the department was to be promoted.)

    3. Natalie*

      Sometimes costs really aren’t going up. Year over year inflation in the US as a whole has only been about 1% for the last few years, and I would bet real money that in some regions they are actually in deflation.

      1. Artemesia*

        I always wonder about those figures. Medical costs are skyrocketing; our medical insurance has gone up faster than our social security for example. It is sort of insulting when Medicare raises it rates by Xplus Y and social security doesn’t go up at all because ‘no inflation’ so the check goes down. Plenty of people still working also are facing insurance cost rises. Our pharma costs have also skyrocketed and our insurance policy for drugs has gone up and so have the co-pays.

        Our housing costs have gone up and the cost of groceries has certainly gone up.

        I am unclear in my life where all this deflation is.

    4. Brett*

      In public sector, there is always an issue with public perception of cost of living increases, e.g. all the people going “I don’t get a cost of living increase, why should people being paid out of my pocket get one.”

      Old employer suspended cost of living increases in the late-80s and has yet to reinstate them. This was actually somewhat useful, because a when rude people decided to excoriate you in public about pay raises for public employees they would inevitably start with, “You already get cost of living increases….” ‘No, we don’t. Last one of those was in 1986.’

      Anyway, this meant that, instead of cost of living increases, we would get small raises to somewhat keep pace with inflation. Sometimes people at the bottom got skipped simply because money was limited and managers used strange rules to allocate their limited resources like going in seniority order or increasing higher paid employees first since they would have more of a fight getting those raises.

    5. really*

      This was part a discussion my husband had with a coworker over 30 years ago. If you have a contract that specifies a COLA you get a COLA otherwise the raise is what we call a the cost of doing business. You get a raise so hopefully you will stay but the reality is that there are a lot of reasons an annual raise does not happen and there is a limit to what any job will be worth. Take your salary today and compound it at 5% annually (what everyone wants). Do you think your job is truly worth what your salary would be after 10 years?

    6. Trout 'Waver*

      If there is a pay discrepancy between two people doing a similar job and the higher paid one is overpaid.

  14. VQ*

    Has anyone ever had a coworker who quit without giving notice and just stopped coming in to work (or done it themselves)? It happened at my workplace this week and there has been so much fallout and work not getting done because of it. I work at a Fortune 500 company and this is my first full-time post college job (9 months) but some of my coworkers who have decades of work experience have never seen it happen before. It’s been interesting and I’m just wondering what others have experienced.

    1. Dizzy Steinway*

      An old university peer of mine went AWOL. Apparently they wrote ‘Where is Wakeen?’ on a whiteboard in Donnie Darko style.

      Has the person definitely quit? If they’ve gone AWOL it’s always possible they’re in hospital or something.

      1. VQ*

        She’s definitely quit. Our boss blocked her internal transfer to a different team because he didn’t want to lose her. She was told it had been blocked by her manager and therefore the offer was rescinded. This was last Thursday. Last Friday the manager was off all day and lots of people were leaving early. She pretended she was leaving early but really she went to HR and resigned. She gave back her company mobile phone and was given a check for her pay up until Friday and she left. She told HR she had told her boss and coworkers but she didn’t tell anyone. HR is at a different location than us and they don’t know her or our boss personally or anything like that. Our boss couldn’t get in touch with her on Monday when she didn’t show up because she had given back her phone when she quit. No one has any idea how to contact her but HR said she was very clear that she was quitting, even though she didn’t give them a reason.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Was the transfer a promotion? Or in a different area where she wanted experience? If so, I can’t say I blame her for quitting after finding out it was blocked.

          1. VQ*

            It was to a team that was more in line with her interests and what she had gone to college for. It wasn’t a promotion, the title and pay grade were the same, but I understand why she was upset too. My boss on the other hand is clueless as usual.

            1. Caro in the UK*

              I can totally understand why she wanted to leave after that then.

              I wouldn’t have necessarily quit without notice, but if your boss blocked a transfer that she really wanted, because s/he couldn’t do without her… well I can completely see her deciding to effectively say “well you’ll HAVE to do without me now”.

              Someone (HR ideally) should really spell it out for your boss that this is a very real consequence of blocking internal transfers :(

              I’m sorry that it’s left to you to pick up the slack, that really sucks.

              1. Amber T*

                Why do companies allow managers to block internal transfers? Wouldn’t it make most sense to the company that if an employee wants to move, and is the most qualified for that position, they allow that employee to move? I get that it could hurt the manager, but instead, the company and the manager (hopefully not the employee – hopefully she had something else lined up) are hurt because they lost a good employee.

                1. Not So NewReader*

                  I would think that it would be wise to transfer the employee if possible. But I have been told that in some cases a critical employee may not be allowed to move. This is because it would be detrimental to the business.

                  I think that upper management should be able to have the final say on an immediate boss’ refusal to approve a transfer.

        2. Menacia*

          Yeah, I probably would have done the same thing, what gives your boss the right to block her transfer just because *he* did not want to lose her? Ultimately, your boss gave her no choice, and she wanted out, so she got out the only way she had left. Look at the mess HE made. I am seeing this more and more with younger employees who have done all the right things (educate themselves, show up every day, etc.), but when they start looking to move up the corporate ladder or into a different area, they are held back but the difference is that they are not afraid to walk out the door. This is especially true in my organization when women want to move into the areas that have been male-dominated and run by males who still think women should belong pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen….but I digress….

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            This is the story of my life. And like you said, I have no problem leaving altogether. Companies need to stop playing these stupid games with employees, especially the ones that are good and have options.

        3. Falling Diphthong*

          So that’s a standard quit with no notice, rather than vanishing. Not quite a rage quit so much as a controlled burn quit, fulfill the one legal formality and walk out the door.

          I’m not feeling a lot of “who could ever have predicted this?” sympathy for management–they made it clear so long as she has this boss, she won’t be allowed to move out or up. So she changed the one thing in that formula that was under her control.

        4. paul*

          Not professional of her but your manager pulled a fairly skeezy stunt there and I can’t blame her for being mad.

          1. Trout 'Waver*

            I wouldn’t call it unprofessional. I think that’s a perfectly appropriate response to how she was treated.

            1. PollyQ*

              I think it’s still unprofessional not to give notice. It’s also possible that faced with the guaranteed loss of the employee, the manager would have given permission for the transfer, whereas now she may be on a do-not-hire list due to quitting without notice

              1. Trout 'Waver*

                Blocking an internal transfer after there is already an offer on the table is the nuclear option. It destroys the relationship. There is nothing left there to save at that point.

                1. Amber T*

                  I agree that her relationship with the boss was already ruined (seriously, dumb move on his part), but it’s possible she left coworkers in a lurch. You never know who you’ll run into in future jobs, so if a coworker remembers her as the one who just up and quit with no notice, that could work against her. I don’t think a coworker or anyone could fault her for choosing to leave after a transfer was blocked like that, but it’s the way she left that matters.

                  (Though to be honest, I’m cheering for her on the side!)

        5. TootsNYC*

          “Our boss blocked her internal transfer to a different team because he didn’t want to lose her.”

          And now he has!

          Good for her.

          “HR said she was very clear that she was quitting, even though she didn’t give them a reason.”
          I would think that HR, of all people, ought to know why; that’s very probably why she didn’t specifically say.

        6. Artemesia*

          Good for her. This should be the outcome for ever yutz who blocks a transfer internally for one of his employees because what he wants is more important than what she wants. Hope she finds or has a great new job and he can just sit and spin.

    2. Not Australian*

      I actually did that, the last time I was employed by someone else. (These days I run a small business of my own – no bosses!) I was in a very bad place emotionally, which turned out to be due to some mis-prescribed medication I’d been taking for more than fifteen years and had never actually needed in the first place… Anyway, I got into such an emotional tangle that I just couldn’t face work any more; I wrote a letter of resignation and enclosed my keys and that was that. There was never any follow-up from management, not even so much as a phone call to ask if I was all right, so I concluded they were as glad to see me go as I was to leave; they just stopped paying me, someone sent on my P45, and I never looked back. I may be mixing with the wrong people, but I’ve also seen it happen with others … especially in my early working days when jobs were easier to come by and people really didn’t think twice about walking out. Times have definitely changed, however!

    3. Murphy*

      Yes. (She broke up with her fiance a month before her wedding and had to move back in with her parents, who lived in a different city.) We were hourly shift work, so we had to immediately rearrange the schedule to ensure coverage.

    4. LisaLee*

      Yes, but only in retail, where it’s slightly less of a big deal. In my case the woman never showed up to her shift, never responded to texts or calls, and never even came in for her last check (!!). The only reason I know that she didn’t have an accident or emergency is because a mutual acquaintance told me she was trying to get fired from that job.

      I’m amazed someone would do pull this at a full-time office job.

    5. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      Wait, your coworker quit without notice, or she simply stopped showing up? I’ve seen the former, but the latter is less common in non-retail/service positions (although not unheard of—job abandonment is a thing.

      1. VQ*

        Both. Our boss blocked her internal transfer to a different team because he didn’t want to lose her and her offer was rescinded. That was last Thursday. Last Friday our boss took a PRO day. She pretended she was leaving early but really she went to see our HR and resigned. She gave back her company phone and was given a check for her pay up until her last day. She told HR she had told her boss and coworkers but she didn’t tell anyone. HR is at a different location than us and they don’t know her or our boss personally, there are thousands of employees.

        2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          So this was definitely not the most awesome way for her to quit—particularly the part about not telling anyone but saying she did—, but there might be more to the story that you don’t know about. And it could be that those unknown details make her approach less-than-ideal but justifiable. I have a feeling she was livid about being blocked on the transfer and was done.

          If she resigned without notice, though, that’s not the same as “she stopped showing up.” It sounds like the missing link was communicating that she had resigned to your team/boss. In most cases, not notifying your boss is not great, and she should have done so (either by leaving a resignation letter on your boss’s desk or by sending an email or some other communication making it explicit she was gone).

        3. Engineer Woman*

          Good for her.

          To answer your question: no, I’ve never known anyone to quit without notice or just leave work one day and not come back.

        4. neverjaunty*

          But that isn’t “just stopped showing up”; that’s simply quitting without notice.

          It is a little odd that she didn’t tell her boss, but under the circumstances, I can kind of see why. I suspect that he would not have handled it professionally.

    6. Xarcady*

      At one job, someone quit without notice. He’d been up for promotion a couple of times, kept getting told he would be promoted, but the promotion never happened. After two years of this dragging out, he came in one morning, went to the boss’s office, stayed there 5 minutes, came out and left. In the middle of a huge, important project he was working on.

      He’d lined up another job already, and felt absolutely no loyalty to his old company. And he was angry about the lack of promotion and wanted to make life miserable for his old boss, who was most likely holding up the promotion because he didn’t want to lose a good employee. (He happened to be my brother’s good friend, so I got all the gory details later.)

      At another job, someone just stopped coming in. He had died of a heart attack while on PTO, and it wasn’t until two concerned coworkers visited his apartment that anyone found out.

      That’s for my 30 years of experience in office jobs. In retail or fast food, this does seem to be more common. I’ve been at a retail job for 3 years, and can think of at least 3 people who just faded away.

      1. Artemesia*

        The only two cases where I know someone just didn’t show up for work, they were both discovered dead in bed. Two different guys; two different decades; luckily both had co-workers who were concerned enough to check. One’s wife was out of town on business; the other was separated.

    7. CAA*

      I had a contractor no-show one day after a month of working regularly. We knew that he was single and lived alone, so we tried the contact info we had for him over the course of a few hours and were unable to get hold of him. We notified the agency who employed him and they couldn’t reach him either so they called for a police welfare check and found out he was o.k. They apologized to us profusely and rebated part of his hourly fee for the prior month to us. I never did find out any more than that.

    8. Clever Name*

      I had a coworker put in her 2 week’s notice but left about four days into her notice period. That’s the closest I’ve encountered to a quit without notice or a no-show. I think she was in a really bad place mentally, and she felt like she had gotten screwed over by the company. She did have another job lined up.

    9. paul*

      I’ve seen it here, once. It was a relief really because the person was *so* damn annoying. Actually OK at a lot of the job but she drove us all up a wall and none of us were sad to see her go.

    10. AnotherAlison*

      Oh yeah. I had a coworker do this in January of this year, but that was the first time in my 17 years of professional experience. He was an engineering project manager, so you would think he would be more professional, but nope.

      My husband did it once, too. He was ~25 and in a construction job, so it was probably not as unusual there, but I was pretty po’d when he did it.

    11. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      Someone we hired for a new part-time position called in on day 3, but no-called/no-showed for two days the next week. My boss and I were both out the first day of it (I was responsible for training her) and on the second day I had to tell my coworker, who is second in command, that she needs to call her. We planned to slowly integrate duties, so there wasn’t much fallout from it except for some orders being off for days.

    12. JeanB*

      I’ve done it. When I was in my late teens or early twenties, I clocked out about 3 hours after I’d clocked in and went home. I don’t even know if I told anyone. I may have called the next day (it was an overnight position). It was in a call center type place and I was bored out of my mind.

    13. Elizabeth West*

      We had one at a previous job–he had been really dissatisfied with things for a while, and when a seriously ill child he and his wife fostered was declared terminal, he walked out and never came back. He literally got a call on his cell from his wife while he was standing next to my desk talking to me, said “Oh God, etc.” and walked out the door.

      I imagine he told his boss the situation later (I assume he told somebody besides me) and it was a good reason to quit. Although I think he would have given notice sooner or later anyway even without the child situation.

    14. DCGirl*

      I signed up with a temp agency right after college to have some income with job hunting. For my first assignment, they sent me on an envelope-stuffing job. They also sent an older gentleman as well. Well, I had worked in the development office at college for four years, and I was a wicked fast envelope stuffer. The older gentleman commented on my speed and how I was making him look bad. I toned it down a little, but you could tell he thought envelope stuffing was beneath his qualifications. At some point, he got up and walked away. I thought he’d just gone to the bathroom, but minutes ticked by and he didn’t come back. I thought maybe he went to get lunch, but minutes turned into an hour and then two hours. The person we were reporting to came by and asked where he was. I said I didn’t know. She called the agency, and they said he’d just called them from pay phone on the street to tell them he quit.

    15. Hibiscus*

      Yes. We worked a a narcissistic nutter who liked putting people on PIPS. My colleague didn’t come into work on a Monday, and we didn’t find out until the boss came in she’d emailed and said she had a new job starting in another state in 2 weeks and was moving, so sayonara. I think it was completely fine–that place was awful, the boss too, and we were all demoralized. 10 years later she’s doing fine too.

    16. JustaTech*

      I had a sort-of intern ghost at the end of summer, just stopped showing up. I wasn’t particularly sorry to see him go; I’ve never worked with anyone who could make such a mess! Puddles and stains everywhere!
      It was kind of surprising that he totally ghosted since he was in medical school (or just graduated) and the position was created for him at the boss’s wife’s request.

    17. Construction Safety*

      It happens all the time with our craft people. It happened one time with a relatively senior staff guy. Just vanished. Left his College diploma on the wall vanished. About 3 months later we found out that he had a chemical relapse.

    18. Jessesgirl72*

      My husband is at a Fortune 500, and his MANAGER gave 2 days notice.

      That was almost 6 months ago, and there is still the occasional fall out from it.

      It’s not common, and said Manager burned some really major bridges- and for no real reason. He wasn’t mistreated and the place isn’t toxic. He stated outright that he thought giving two weeks notice was stupid.

    19. Gadfly*

      We had a coworker go to lunch and never come back or call. Eventually (a few days to a week later) my supervisor got through to her and it turns out she had decided to follow her boyfriend to another state (he was on a pro-hockey team) because he was transferred/traded/something or other.

    20. Chaordic One*

      I once worked at a place where a coworker in a different quit on the spot when he learned that his bosses had hired someone who had previously been his supervisor at a previous job. (He had been promoted to a where he was now at the same level as his former supervisor.) He didn’t get along with his person and gave his current boss an ultimatum, either her or me, and the employer said “her.”

      The new employee (former boss) was a decidely “meh” employee, but not as terrible as the quitter might have made her out to be. After he quit, he kept in contact with some of his former coworkers in the his former department. He found another job and then “poached” several people from the department.

    21. SC in SC*

      We had a scientist in our group wh didn’t come to work on a Monday. We didn’t think much of it since we don’t require staff to call in for sick days. Tuesday comes around and she’s still not there. On Wednesday we started to get a little concerned since most people call in if it’s more than a day or two just to let us know the situation and to say that they’re okay. By Thursday we’re calling her but get no answer. Friday comes and now we’re very concerned so we check with one of her work friends who causally mentions that she’s left the country. WTF?! Turns out she was seeing someone who got a position in the UK and decided to go with him but just didn’t bother to tell us. Needless to say she was a bit of a free spirit.

  15. an anon is an anon*

    I’m not sure if this is more relevant for the weekend post, but if it is, apologies in advance and feel free to delete it.

    I get 4 weeks of vacation at work, plus a week of sick time, a week of personal days, summer Fridays, and work from home whenever I want. I don’t have the budget to travel at the moment (seriously, not even weekend trips are feasible) and I don’t have any projects to do around my apartment or in general. Most of my friends have moved on from the area or have families and no spare time anymore.

    I’ll take a day off here and there, but I don’t know how to spend my vacation time. I want to use it all because it doesn’t carry over and I’d hate to lose it, but I can’t fathom taking four weeks time off with nothing to do. Staying at home makes me stir crazy and I’m allowed to work from home as often as I like, so I use that when I need a respite from being in the office.

    So, I guess, for those of you who don’t have the budget to go on vacations or things to even do at home with your time off, what are your suggestions? It’s a struggle to even get through a week and a half of vacation days, but four weeks is rough. I feel guilty even complaining about this since I know a lot of people don’t even get half the time off I receive.

    1. LQ*

      Wednesdays off. Just like all of them. Or half days. I really like half days. I use them for my hobbies. I’m a writer so in November I’ll take 2-3 half days a week all month. In winter I take skiing time. I think about how I can use them for my hobbies primarily.

      Also recharge time.

      1. an anon is an anon*

        We’re not allowed to do that, unfortunately. It’s the only rule we have about vacation time.

        2. LQ*

          You can’t take the same day every week? Maybe rotate through? I like a midday rather than a 3 day weekend, it just feels different somehow. 3 day weekends feel like I should Do Something Fancy. A midday week feels more like I can relax. (Or do all the cleaning/whatever I normally do on the weekends but then have the weekend totally free.)

      2. King Friday XIII*

        Man, if I had four weeks saved up I’d totally just take all of November off for NaNoWriMo…

    2. SophieChotek*

      Instead of taking large chunks of time off, could you do 1/day a week or every other week. Is there a cause you are passionate about? Like an animal shelter, the library, food shelf, local religious organization, museum? Could you plan on one day a week volunteering/working with them? You might meet new people and feel like you were doing something else, but you probably would only be sacrificing half your day. (A couple hours, plus time to drive there and back).

      Other than that, I guess I’d say…maybe explore a new hobby? Look up on MeetUp to see if there is a group already centered around a hobby/activity you enjoy.

      1. an anon is an anon*

        Nah, I’ve thought about that, but we’re not allowed to take time off every week or every other week if it’s routine.

        I already volunteer on my weekends and nights and the same goes for my hobbies, and a lot of the organizations I volunteer for are more centered around after work/weekend activities as it is.

        1. Aunt Margie at Work*

          That’s the worst. At my office most people have been here 15 years or more and have four or more weeks vacation. They take every Friday off from June-August or every Friday from October-December. And the office goes on. I am more of a Thursdays off person and that works too. Your office sucks.

        2. Artemesia*

          The issue seems to be not enough income to do something like head for Europe for 3 weeks or go hike in the national parks for a couple of weeks. So maybe start thinking about what you can do to make yourself more $valuable with the time you have. Can you improve a skill that would help you get a better paying job? Could you spend the time job searching. Could you get a part time job weekends and use your vacation time to give yourself the occasional ‘weekend’ in the middle of the week and save that money for next year’s great vacation. You have time and not money so figure out how to turn the time in to more money. Or figure out some vacation activities that are inexpensive like housesitting in a different city or camping or ‘staycationing’ where you do local activities that are not costly but require some time like local hikes, photo walks, etc.

    3. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Do you have to do the four weeks consecutively? If not, then break them up throughout the year. My husband would just take off random days to sleep in, get caught up on bills, meet me for lunch, etc. Last year we had some pretty big car bills so it ate up our vacation budget. So, we spent one day at a lake, another touring a town not far away with a chocolate factory, had dinner, etc. One day was ugly weather so we went to the movies and then to a winery. Do you have any museums nearby? That’s always nice to have enough time to meander through it at your own pace and stop and really admire something.

      1. an anon is an anon*

        I think the issue I have is that I’ve been in this city for years so I’ve seen most of the things there are to do, and any new exhibits aren’t full-day worthy.

        But no, I don’t have to take the four weeks off at once. But I’ve taken random days off when I feel like I need them or want to chill, but I never seem to get up to four weeks worth that way.

        1. tigerStripes*

          How about taking a 1 week staycation at 4 different times this year? You can sleep in, get a few things done, check out a DVD or 2 from the library and binge watch, etc.

    4. Another Lawyer*

      I use it to catch up on errands and personal stuff, and then I usually work out a ton, e.g. take a yoga class every day for 7 days. I cook a ton of stuff as prep for later. I also take days to provide childcare for friends so they don’t have to take a day when school closes, etc.

      Also you could look into side gigs if you have that much time but need more money.

      1. Epsilon Delta*

        Yes, errand-days are awesome.

        I also get 4 weeks of vacation, but my husband only gets 2. So we do a one or two-week family vacation each year, and then I’ve still got 10+ days to spend by myself. Here are some things I’ve used those extra days for:

        Errands (e.g.: grocery shopping in the middle of the day. So relaxing!)
        Doctor appointments (usually a half day)
        Volunteer
        Craft projects
        Deep clean the house
        Go visit a friend who lives far away/host a visiting friend/take a day trip with a friend
        Extra time off around Christmas for shopping/getting ready for the holiday
        Be lazy and take a nap in the middle of the day when I have the house to myself

        Alternately, a lot of people at my office just take the last 2-3 weeks of the year off because they don’t use their vacation time throughout the year. They don’t necessarily do anything other than hang out at the house, but at least they are not working.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I used to take 2 days off– always a Monday and a Tuesday– to go to yoga classes and the movies. I would have a nice four-day weekend to do things I didn’t get a chance to do that often, with very few people around (in NYC, that was the real bonus). While I was unemployed, I filled my days cleaning and baking. No joke. If you like to do crafty things, take some time to devote to those things.

      I’ve also done touristy things in my own town. I once took a week off to go to the zoo, spend some time in the park, go to a nearby beach, etc. Weekends are great, but museums and galleries can be much more enjoyable at “off” times.

      1. Yetanotherjennifer*

        I was going to suggest playing home town tourist well. You could set a goal of exploring every park in your area or every museum or every bakery. Pretend you’re writing a best of. Or take a published best of and see if you agree.

    6. Stop That Goat*

      Well, personally, I’m a staycation kind of guy. I just took a vacation a couple months ago and spent most of the time doing upkeep on the house that I had put off for awhile. Sounds like you don’t really have that need though.

      Does your city offer any sort of free activities or sites that you can visit? Since you don’t have any projects already in place, what about starting one? Learn a new hobby? It sounds like you are a bit tight for cash and a bit restless as well though. I think you’re going to have to be a bit creative with options to stay busy.

      1. Amber T*

        Staycations are the best. It’s awesome being able to get stuff done around the house, little errands that always get pushed to the end of the to do list.

        I also fully admit I take the occasional day off to do *nothing.* Usually at the end of a busy time at work, or if personal life is getting to be too much, or because it’s my birthday (I took my birthday off this year and it was wonderful!). I stay in my pjs, I watch Netflix or play video games, I read. Those days are the best. I’m very much a homebody, so I understand if that’s someone’s definition of hell, but to an introvert like me those days are bliss.

      2. Kj*

        Day trips, if there are cute towns/good hikes nearby are nice as well. I like the idea of a new hobby. An arts center in my city offers week-long workshops and I’ve been tempted to take one of those as a vacation. It would be cheaper than traveling and fun (I’ve always wanted to be a blacksmith!)

    7. fposte*

      I just lose a lot of it. Does it get paid out if you leave, and how much can accrue?

      (I also do a lot of stuff around the house, more than traveling, even.)

      1. an anon is an anon*

        It gets paid out if I leave, but I lose it all by the end of the year and then start over with the four weeks in January.

        1. Thlayli*

          Too much free time, not enough money… have you thought about getting a second job? Or starting your own business There are a good few things you could do for cash that don’t require a full time job. Pinterest is full of ideas

          2nd idea is look into budget travelling. Couch surfing, volunteer travel, all of that sort of thing.

          Also, it doesn’t sound like you have a partner or close friends nearby so if you wanted to change that you could try to spend time doing meeting people stuff. I believe there are even apps for meeting new people non-romantically now!

    8. Insert Nickname Here*

      I volunteer for a nonprofit, so generally my vacation days off are either trips to see my family or working events that my nonprofit puts on. Maybe take up a hobby or work with an organization that could use you (and that way you’re staying busy plus developing new skills)!

    10. Amy Farrah Fowler*

      Oooh, that’s tough, but what I’d suggest is seeing if there are free activities to do in your city, whether they’re festivals, tours of places you haven’t been (some cost, but some are free). You could also take some days to just spend reading a good book or binging on netflix (if it won’t make you too stir crazy). Maybe you could find a meetup group that does fun stuff in your area and make so me new friends to do things with, too… It’s tough being somewhere without much of a social network.

    11. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I live in NYC, so my experience may be very different to yours, but this is what I like to do during a “staycation” of sorts: Visit museums (fewer crowds during the work day!), hop on the subway and go to the beach for the day, walk through new neighborhoods or even get a ticket to a tour bus and be a tourist in my own city, sleep in, cook elaborate meals, try out a new gym class, read a bunch of new books (I am unfortunately a very fast reader, so I can get through several books within a week), try a new restaurant or two, treat myself to a mani/pedi or other spa-like activity, and convince a friend to take off one day to enjoy the staycation with me (even better if you can convince a few different friends to take off different days — then you have someone to hang out with a few times!).

      I don’t get stir-crazy the way it sounds like you do, so I’m perfectly content to spend a few days being lazy on my couch in front of a Netflix marathon, but the above are just a few of things I’d do to get out of the house.

    12. The IT Manager*

      Tourist in your own town – museums, wandering around beautiful parks and building.

      A vacation with specific plans to read a book(s) or binge watch a tv series.

      A mid-week day off to do shopping, errands so you’re not fighting the weekend crowds and your weekends are free for fun stuff.

      Leave a few hours early to go to free evening concerts or any evening activity without being rushed.

    13. Newby*

      Personally, I like to have a baking day. It helps me relieve stress and I get tasty treats. You sound very budget conscious, so one thing you might use the day for is to cook a bunch of freezable meals which will save time and money for the rest of the month.

    14. Purest Green*

      I know travel budget is an issue, but could you go visit (as in stay with) your friends or family for a week or so?

    15. Longtime Lurker, First Time Commenter*

      This might sound odd, but you could take a few extra long weekends to learn a new art skill or develop a new hobby?
      Take a day off to go see a midnight premier if that interest you, or take a day when a new show gets released on netflix and spend the time lounging around the house! If you like animals, you could see if a local shelter is accepting volunteers and take a few days a year to volunteer for larger projects than the Vols usually can get to. Actually, if you are looking for a community to plug into to get more social stuff onto your calendar, volunteering in general would help you with that. Just pick an organization and go!

      Feel free to take the ideas or leave them.

    16. Merci Dee*

      Several people have already mentioned this, but take a few days or a week and turn yourself into a home-town tourist. Check online to see what kind of interesting tourist attractions are in your city (and there may be things that you’ve never even heard of!). Volunteer once a month to help out at a local elementary or middle school (my parents volunteer at my daughter’s middle school, and the office staff absolutely loves to have someone else around to help with filing, making copies, taking kids to and from the lunch room, etc.). Check the weather to find an absolutely gorgeous day, and then pack supplies and food to spend the whole day at a local park, camped out under a massive shady tree while you re-visit a book you loved but haven’t read since 8th grade. Or, if you’re close to a creek or a river, spend $10 to get a nice inflatable and some rope — tie up your inflatable to a handy rock or a tree close to shore, and spend the day drifting lazily on the current.

      Suddenly, spending a day on the river sounds like a good idea. I may have to make plans soon . . . .

      1. Merci Dee*

        If you can’t think of a book you read in 8th grade and loved, then here’s a book that =I= read in the 8th grade and loved . . . and I found it a few years ago just so that I could re-read it.

        The House of Dies Drear

        A house built by a prominent abolitionist, a college professor and his family who are new in town, rumors of a fabulous treasure, and a bunch of nefarious bandits who are trying to find it first . . . .

        It was enough history, adventure, spookiness, and mystery to keep me glued to the pages. :)

    17. CAA*

      Here are my ideas:

      Take an intensive class. Learn a new language or skill. Take a professional cooking class.

      Get some travel on someone else’s dime. Take a temporary job as a companion. Work at a summer camp. Become a courier. Maybe you can even get paid enough that you could afford vacation travel next year.

      Volunteer for a big project that needs full-time attention for a few weeks. Run your town’s annual flower show or the library book sale or the 4th of July parade. Organize building of a Habitat for Humanity house.

    18. paul*

      I go do stuff around town or short day trips–anything within about 2 hours drive time is fair game to me, 3 hours if I really want to see a place. Get an atlas, get a compass, draw a circle that’s within an easy day’s drive and see what’s there. I’ve seen a lot of cool places this way. Cost a tank of gas an usually lunch but that’s about it. Maybe admission fees but most of the places I wind up are cheap or free (god bless our state and national park system and weird small town museums).

      I take a Thursday or Friday off every few months for a trip to the shooting range or a hike I can’t take kids on (5 miles hiking in rough terrain does not work with a 2 year old). You can’t take the same day off every week, but taking 2-3 days at a time every 3 months should be ok right?

      Hell, about once a year I’ll take 3 days off, make a giant picture of margaritas and play through a new computer game.

    19. yarnowl*

      You should check out atlasobscura.com and search for things that are close by to you! I’ve found a ton of cool museums and parks and stuff like that relatively close to me.

    20. EngineerInNL*

      Do you have any hobbies or just stuff you enjoy doing? I know I could take a week off work and just read a dozen books and just relax in general or even wait until the weather is nice and explore around your City? Just being outside when it’s nice out makes me happy

    21. Anonygoose*

      On another note entirely: is there a way you could make there be a budget for travel? I.e. cutting something out of your budget, or getting a part time job? Travel can so be worth the perceived sacrifices.
      Alternately, a part time job might provide you something to do during your time off as well – work 1 day a week for most of the year, and then take ‘vacation’ and work more hours during a busy season (i.e. summer or Christmas)?

    22. JustaTech*

      If you really can’t think of anything else to do with your vacation time, can you donate it? As in, is your organization big enough that there might be someone in another department who could use more time off to deal with something really major (terminally ill family member, or something)?
      A university I worked for let us donate sick time to other employees who had serious medical conditions (like cancer) so they could stay “employed” and keep their insurance.

      1. AnonAnalyst*

        I was thinking of something similar. If you really aren’t able to use the days, maybe there’s a way to donate them to someone else who needs more PTO?

        Long term, do you think your company might be open to negotiating your comp package? If they have any flexibility, you might be able to negotiate for a salary increase in exchange for giving up some of your vacation time (but you might have to wait for your next salary/performance discussion).

    23. Celeste*

      You don’t say if travel is a goal per se, but you do say your budget is too snug for it. I can also see why you wouldn’t want to start a new hobby, because of the outlay needed for tools, supplies, classes/books etc. Could you arrange to be a casual worker on your days off? Maybe there is some other skill you have that could you could leverage into serious cash, or maybe you could just find some work in an area you have always thought was interesting but that you wouldn’t do full time for some reason. I’ll give you an example. I love to tinker with the home. I could see myself helping people get organized, or do childproofing, or make room for an aging relative to move in. Pet sitting. House cleaner. Patient advocate. There are lots of kinds of at-will services that people do need and will pay for, if someone would be willing to do it. You would make some extra cash, and you never know who you’ll meet.

    24. Janice in Accounting*

      So first, let me say how jealous I am of all that time off! I get two weeks and it’s not nearly enough. But I do recognize the problem; I wouldn’t like sitting at home all day either, because there’s only so much Netflix a person can watch. (Theoretically.)

      As for suggestions: if there’s a non-profit you are particularly passionate about, perhaps you could schedule a block of volunteer time. If you’re good with kids, maybe volunteer to help at a summer camp or chaperone a trip; if you are part of a religious community, I’m sure there’s a Vacation Bible School-type thing where they could use a responsible adult. Hospitals, animal shelters, and food pantries love volunteers. Meals on Wheels can always use drivers and you can do that as little or as often as you like; that might be a nice thing on some of your summer Fridays. Pick up litter in a local park, enjoying the outdoors while doing something nice for the community.

      What about visiting those out-of-town friends? Offer to house-sit for one of them while they’re away on vacation, and get some time in a different city. Or trade houses for a week, if they’re interested in spending time in your town. Maybe even research the possibility of house sitting for an agency in another city, where you’d earn enough to pay your way there and enjoy some fun activities.

    25. oranges & lemons*

      If there are any festivals or similar events coming up in your area, maybe you could volunteer for one? It can be a great way to participate without having to pay. I’ve done this for a tall ships festival and it was great–a lot better than actually paying since I didn’t have to wait in line and got to hang out with the crew all day. Film festivals, music festivals, and local theatre are good as well. A lot of these are set up so volunteers get a free pass to compensate them for their time.

    26. Gadfly*

      So, reading the replies, it kind of sounds where you’ve just hit that spot where everything sounds blah. This is generally the point where the only option other than the rut you’re in is doing things outside of your comfort zone. Find a thread of interest, no matter how small, and follow it. It might not be the thing, but odds are good it will take you to other things you are a little interested in, until you find stuff worth doing and worth dealing with the logistical issues in order to do.

    27. Not So NewReader*

      I have not seen this one suggested. Why not take a temporary job for three of those weeks? I am assuming you would take all four weeks at once? Then use your last week as your true vacation from everything. You might be able to pick up work through friends of friends or by asking around.

      Nurseries need help potting up plants, there might be light construction work available, etc. Take a look around to see who is entering their busy season. Explain what you are looking for and give a general idea why. “I want to fill up my vacation time with some type of small accomplishment.”

      OTH, you could look at taking a course or two. There might be something available locally, I have seen pottery classes and stained glass classes here. I am picking up on some boredom going on, that could be a misread on my part. But if so, maybe try a class in something you have never done before and wanted to try.

    28. Chaordic One*

      I know this sounds pathetic, but one time when I had a job with low wages and a lot of vacation, I ended up taking the vacation time off from my regular job and then working a temp job for a couple of weeks.

    29. AJennifer*

      Could you do a housing swap? Or rent your place on AirBNB for a week or two at a time and use the money to in turn get a rental in a different place at the same time for the same price? You might be able to arrange a getaway that with a swap doesn’t actually cost you any extra money.

      Do you have any passions that could translate to volunteer vacations? A summer camp for kids or families that you think is cool and needs volunteers for a couple weeks? A project your local library or historical society is working on that could benefit from some dedicated help a few weeks a year?

      I also like the ideas put forth for staycations and doing things in your own community that you might not otherwise do. I’ve found pleasure in having a reading list lined up and taking day trips to local parks and beaches with books and snacks. It’s amazing how quickly a day goes by when you’re into a good book.

      But lastly, though you hate to lose that vacation time if you don’t use it, if using it creates more stress than not using it, just work if that’s what keeps you grounded. You wouldn’t be the first person not to use all their vacation time. Things might be different down the road but if that’s what works for you now, so be it.

    30. Voice from the wilderness*

      My company allows me to cash in vacation days. I once cashed in half my days and used the money to fund a vacation on the remaining days.

      It was a win win situation for everybody.

  16. EA*

    How do you stay motivated and focused when you don’t have a lot of work to do? I’m in an technology analyst role, and a lot of my job revolves around coordinating the quarterly releases and (possibly weekly) routine maintenance outages from our primary software vendor.

    Right now, we’re between releases, and the vendor hasn’t published the list of features for the Q2 release, so there’s not really any ongoing work for that, and planning for the weekly outages takes about 20 minutes a week (send a few emails, make sure everyone knows their part of the checklist to follow, done).

    I’ve asked my manager for more work, and she’s working to try and get some for me, but one project got delayed, and she hasn’t had a chance to talk with her peers yet to see if there’s anything that could be shifted to my plate.

    I work from home on Fridays, and I noticed last week that I spent probably more time reading (and periodically moving the mouse, so I stay active on Lync) than I did actually working. Does anyone have any tips for ways to stay somewhat engaged when there’s really no deliverables that I can be working on?

    1. kbeers0su*

      I came on here to post something similar, so I’ll be following this. My work is critical to our business, but the work isn’t consistent. So I have to exist in this role, and can’t necessarily tack on extra work that would be consistent. But I find myself at times with significant stretches of time with nothing to do. I read anything that is in any way somewhat relevant to my work, I’ve offered to be on two search committees, I’m one one company-wide committee and a related ad-hoc committee. And I still find myself bored. This is also a change for me, as I was in a different, but related role for years before this. The work in that area was more consistent, so I’ve never dealt with this before.

    2. Pup Seal*

      Maybe you can use the open time to learn new skills? I’m not sure what skills a technology analyst role needs, but when I first stared my current position I taught myself how to use different programs and software during spare time, and I’ll read my old accounting book once in a while to see if there’s anything we can do to make our budget better.

      I’ve also found it’s a good idea to clean the office area during downtime. Cleaning may not sound like a productive task, but I feel better when the offices are organized.

    3. Morning Glory*

      Are there any skills or technologies that you could benefit from knowing that you aren’t very familiar with?

      In slow periods I’ve started exploring Excel pivot tables, its new mapping tool, etc. It’s not relevant to any projects I am working on at the moment, but it’s close enough where I could see it being directly applicable to future projects so I consider it a gray area between actually working and slacking.

    4. Trout 'Waver*

      Ask for a flexible schedule? I assume you’re absolutely slammed around release time and working more hours then.

      Also, a team that’s 100% busy 100% of the time has no capacity to deal with emergencies or unexpected demands. Being available and ready to deal with emergencies that don’t arise is still work.

    5. Marisol*

      I play an online task management program called Habitica that’s free to download. You set your own goals and I have one goal as “30 minutes of productive work time” so that I get points every time I log in time actually working. As opposed to reading and commenting on blogs…

    6. Epsilon Delta*

      I had this problem the first few years I was at my company. Now that I have been here for awhile, I have projects that aren’t aligned with a specific release date. This includes things like documenting existing systems, creating new processes, creating and improving internal tools. Now when I don’t have anything to do (at the moment) for my release-driven projects, I can fall back to one of those other projects. Some of these projects I came up with myself and others my manager or coworkers have assigned to me.

    7. Cookie D'Oh*

      Could you create some process/training docs about how to perform your current functions? If you’re on vacation or have to train someone new those might come in handy.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      I like to use down time to prep for the next busy time.
      Is there something that you wish you had organized better?
      Are there things you want to research and never have time?

      You could also make yourself a notebook or start a document to collect up these ideas when you are busy so you know what you would like to do when you are free to do it. At one point here I had a tray where I tossed reminder notes to myself. That didn’t work out for various reasons. but it was another collection system I tried.

  17. Detective Amy Santiago*

    Tell me something good that’s happened for you at work recently. We’ve had a chaotic week at the office and it’s way too easy to dwell on the negatives.

    1. Stop That Goat*

      My ‘win of the week’ was being able to find a solution for an issue that our programming team and vendor support were struggling to solve. Those kind of moments are what continues to draw me into IT. I get a big rush from being the problem solver when others have failed.

    2. GigglyPuff*

      A couple of people in my division have left recently which means I get more work, which I’ve really wanted. I get bored on the same thing pretty easily, and get more done if I can shift my focus multiple times. So now I have more work, yay! But at the same time, it’s been a while since I’ve had to focus this much. I’d really been coasting for a while, so it’s kind of a little anxiety inducing, when I start to slip back into coasting habits.

    3. Purest Green*

      I’ve been in thick of it at work lately too, but I had a performance review this week with a merit increase! That certainly helps me deal with the workload.

    4. C Average*

      I’m planning to return to school part-time and had been dreading asking my manager (I work retail) about changing my schedule. When we finally did have the conversation, though, she congratulated me, asked me about the program I’m doing, and said she’d be happy to work with me to keep me on staff and make my new schedule work for everyone.

    5. yarnowl*

      The bulk of my job is working with sales staff to write proposals, and when I started, the process in place took about a month (anything under three weeks was almost impossible) and we were always scrambling to print and bind things an hour or two before they were due.

      This morning I printed and bound a proposal that was requested a week and a half ago, with still a few days left before the deadline! The salesman and his team were blown away, and the proposal turned out great. It felt really good to see the process I designed and manage basically all on my own work so well!

    6. BBBizAnalyst*

      For me… Got a great review, huge bonus, pay increase and I’ve been given the green light to transition some of my low level responsibilities to another team so I can focus on more high level work. The team I’m on has, over the last year, been adding more interesting analytical work to our day to day since our clients are becoming more complex. Of course, that’s meant some turnover for the team but I think the remaining members are up for the challenge and morale has been much better without the constant complaints of our former colleagues.

    7. Lemon Zinger*

      I’ve been tasked with some mentoring/training for newer staff and it’s going really well so far. :)

    9. TheLazyB*

      This morning i was interviewed for a programme in work that’s basically ‘let’s make our organisation better by talking about what it’s like when work is Really Good’. We do a lot of talking about what’s wrong and trying to improve that, which is hard! So it was really nice to spend an hour talking to someone i don’t know from a totally different team about the really good days, what​ makes them good, and how this could be replicated over the organisation as a whole. It really made my day much better. Although i had rabbit-in-headlights pose when i first started prepping and couldn’t think of a single good thing :) i got loads of good examples after that though!

    10. OhBehave*

      We got an RFP this week with a due date of Monday! My boss (new owner of the co.) hadn’t done one before and I’ve only been working here for 2 months. I worked two days on this and submitted my portion before I left today. I just got an email in reply telling me that it looks fantastic and that he’s very impressed! Yay Me! I was just bemoaning the fact that I didn’t have much to do.

    11. Sidestep*

      I’m starting a new job on Tuesday: more interesting work, 30% more money, and better hours! This came after a really rough year, and feeling like I had no opportunities open to me I planned to go back to school to try and get something better. It was a position that was handed right to me, and knowing that my years of hard work have been seen and rewarded feels so unbelievably awesome.

    12. Annie Mouse*

      I’m not very good yet at reading ECGs but a few weeks ago, I managed to spot that a patient’s ECG was out of whack and arranged for us to take him to the most appropriate place of care, by myself. When we got there, it was confirmed he was brewing a heart attack but would be alright. Six months ago, I would have struggled to recognise that there was anything particularly wrong with it!

  18. I'm working with someone who despises me*

     For anyone interested, I have an update.  Things have gone from weird and bad to, let’s say… weirder and better. 

    Over the space of about a week, Cersei’s behavior toward me has warmed considerably.  She’s not being NICE or anything, let’s not get carried away, but her behavior is more closely approximating acceptable social norms between human people who don’t owe each other some kind of blood debt.  

    She’s answering my emails in a timely manner and reaching out to me on occasion without going through Wakeen.  She’s even spoken to me a few times.  And honestly, this was all I wanted in the first place.  Becoming her bestie and watching Sleepless In Seattle together was frankly never a dream of mine. 

    I have no idea why the sudden turnaround.  Maybe hating on me so aggressively was getting exhausting, maybe Wakeen finally told her to get a grip, maybe she just really likes having her own bathroom.  While I’m curious, I don’t really care that much.  

    This has definitely made my workaday more bearable while I weigh my options (I still see myself leaving sooner than I originally wanted, but I might be willing to stay a little longer if she keeps on this path) but needless to say, I’ll never be able to trust her again and I’m sure I’ll always be waiting for the other shoe to drop around her.  

    I have to thank everyone again for their comments that helped get me through this.  Two shout outs in particular (although I genuinely appreciated everyone’s contributions):

    Marisol, your comment about what to do if Cersei should suddenly start acting normally again was both eerily prescient and completely bang on.  I’ve done just that, taken my cue from her and acted like nothing ever happened.  It was exactly the right thing to do and however this shakes out, I am proud of my behavior.  I’ve held onto my professionalism and I never sunk to her level.  I don’t THINK I would have, but your look-ahead comment was exactly what I needed to hear.  I’m very grateful.  

    NotSoNewReader, you sure know your stuff when it comes to difficult human interactions.  I can see why this community looks to you for wisdom and guidance.  Everything you said was spot on and exactly what I needed to hear.  I wish I could buy you a cup of coffee or something.  Thank you so much.  

    1. Marisol*

      Well you just totally rocked it! Cersei saw that her strategy wasn’t going to be effective (i.e. that she couldn’t manipulate you), so she dropped it. Now you’ll always have that technique in your back pocket for any other similar situations that arise. I’m so very glad I could help.

    2. BuildMeUp*

      I’m so glad things are going better! I do agree that continuing to look into leaving is a good idea, because it sounds like your manager’s lack of managing is the biggest problem.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Glad to be of help. And I am glad you are in a better place now.

      Keep looking around, you can find a better place than this one. Don’t slack off on your job search because she is showing you how she is going to treat you. It is reasonable to assume you will come back to this again.

      I love the story of the two sisters crossing the river on horseback. The younger sister was following the older sister. The younger sister lost control of her horse because she got mesmerized by the rapidly moving water. She started crying. The older sister yelled, “Look up, look up!” The younger sister raised her head and she could see the shore, with determination she took control over her horse and they both made it to safety.

      It’s so easy to get mesmerized by our problems that we forget to look up/ look around. Insist on looking for the bigger picture when faced with a difficult situation/person.

      1. I'm working with someone who despises me*

        Well, I just got a fortune cookie that says I will soon make a change at work. So there are clearly good things approaching! Lol.

  19. Call me Ishmael*

    Semi-regular commenter going a little extra anon for this one…

    I work in proposals. It’s a very deadline-driven environment that suits me personality-wise in a lot of ways, but I’m mid-career, and I can’t see doing this until retirement. There are plenty of other industries I could try out that also need proposal skills, but I pretty consistently hear that proposal jobs all have the same drawbacks (long hours, difficult and demanding work), but the trap is that I’m paid pretty well, and don’t feel particularly qualified for anything other than proposal work (after doing it for nearly a decade). I’d love to move to a more strategic role, but those opportunities are incredibly few and far between.

    Does anybody have any experience with successfully breaking out of the proposal coordinator/manager niche? Or any suggestions on how to make a move without taking a huge step back (particularly in terms of pay)?

    1. SophieChotek*

      I don’t know if anything like project coordinators or fund-raising would be any less demanding or comparable pay. They strike me as potentially similar/related, but not necessarily the exact same thing.
      I suppose it depends on your industry.
      Also review proposals (for a different company), but not actually have to write them.

    2. Dizzy Steinway*

      I switched from a totally different field so I don’t have specific advice but I was struck by your line about not feeling qualified for anything else. Been there! You are almost certainly overlooking transferable skills.

    3. Hiding From You*

      Marketing can be a pretty seamless transition, especially if you’re heavily involved in writing/editing the proposals (I know some places separate management/coordination from the actual writing). But also don’t discount the field entirely. Yes, you’re going to see crazy stress and long hours in most proposal shops, but it can vary widely depending on volume and turnaround time. In my current job, our turnaround on complex proposals is 7-10 business days, and we’re typically running at least two at a time. It’s exhausting and unmanageable. Next week is my last week. I’m moving to a company where turn around time is measured in months. By all reports, most people in the group work pretty much 8-5, rather than the 8-7 that I’m used to. So I’ll still get to indulge my inner adrenaline junkie a bit, but I won’t be driving myself completely insane all the time.

    4. RainRainGoAway*

      Currently in this same predicament. After 8 years of proposal management, I’m feeling burned out and ready to move on to another field where I have slightly better control of my work capacity and bandwidth. I find marketing roles require a similar skill set, and offer nearly equal pay. Both fields are deadline-driven and require you to juggle multiple projects simultaneously, but marketing deadlines are not driven by clients, and therefore, the power is in your hands.

    5. Jules the First*

      So nice to hear that feeling like we’ve got no transferable skills is a common problem!

      I love proposals (the short-term, master-this-new-set-of-requirements quickly) is really a great fit with my personality, but I’m finding it’s not challenging enough after ten years…that or everybody wants me to start doing cold-calling or sales (yeuch….) as I get further up the hierarchy.

    6. Spondee*

      I went from proposals to copywriting. To be specific, I used to write proposals to conduct clinical trials, and I’m now a medical copywriter. At the time, I felt as though I wasn’t qualified for anything else, but even 10 years later, interviewers still react really positively to my proposals experience – particularly flexibility, ability to learn/work quickly, and the ability to clearly explain complex subjects.

      Every time I’ve found a new job, I’ve felt as though I had no transferable skills, but my next job has never been a linear move. You can do more than you think!

  20. LQ*

    Thank you so much to everyone who had work travel suggestions for me. It was incredibly exhausting, and the social group wanted to go out every night (and I knew it was important to build that so I went with, but I took the mornings to myself). We did get some good interactions and conversations between all the socials and most of the smarts. I was really happy overall with how it went.

    I personally felt way over my head on the material, but I think I did ok based on what expectations for me were? And I’ve followed up by doing some more continuing of conversations and those I think went very well.

    Thank you again so much for all the great words of wisdom and packing tips!

    1. Ashie*

      At my current job I didn’t know where to empty my personal trash can for about 4 months. Someone would come by and empty it every once in a while but in between I just kept shoving stuff down trying to make it all fit. At a certain point it gets weird that you haven’t asked.

      1. Annie Moose*

        It’s been six months and I still don’t know where the Kleenex boxes are stored. At this point I’m just hoping to catch someone getting one so I can figure out where it’s from.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      I’ll admit it, I’m Jane. And for the love of little apple pies don’t bombard me with anything work related right as I walk in. If you want an answer that isn’t wrong or sarcastic wait at least until the first cup of coffee is in.

    3. C Average*

      This was funny! Thanks for posting.

      True story. I worked at Big Company for eight years, and early in my tenure, I was told by various people that the two people who knew EVERYTHING were Connie and Lynn, who had both been with the company forever and a day and were smart and helpful and all-around great. I don’t recall ever getting officially introduced to Connie or Lynn, but I did at a certain point start trading emails with them from time to time, and I’d see them in the hallways and chat with them. I had a casual but very good working relationship with both Connie and Lynn, and came to respect them quite a lot.

      Five years into my time at Big Company, Lynn received a big award at a quarterly meeting . . . and the person I had always thought was Connie walked onstage to receive it! For five years, I’d thought Connie was Lynn and Lynn was Connie.

      1. hermit crab*

        OMG! This is straight out of a sitcom! What a wonderful story (though I’m glad it didn’t happen to me!).

    4. jordanjay29*

      Paychecks, paychecks, paychecks!

      My first internship took me halfway across the country, which I was thrilled about. It was a paid internship, and decent enough wages too. I left town with about $50 in my bank account, got to my internship and only after the first week did I learn that my paycheck wouldn’t come until a month after I started working.

      So, new city, new job, higher standard of living, and…basically broke. The site manager graciously gave me a loan for the first pay period to make sure I didn’t starve. Thankfully the company was covering my housing, fully furnished too, so I didn’t have to worry about that, but without the loan I would have been on a ramen diet for three weeks.

      Now I make sure to check how positions are paid when I get to the point of talking money with companies.

      1. Bananistan*

        At my first job, I signed up for direct deposit, and they didn’t tell me my first paycheck wouldn’t be included. I got an email 6 months later asking if I was ever coming to pick my paycheck up. The lady made some comment about how she couldn’t believe I’d forgotten an entire paycheck. But I had no idea it was there!

    5. Zathras*

      When I first started my job it took me at least five months to figure out how to print from my laptop to the department printer at the university where I work. I hardly ever have to print anything, but there were a handful of occasions where I printed something to the publicly available library printers IN ANOTHER BUILDING and went over to get it.

      I have no idea why I didn’t just ask someone to show me how. I guess because I work in IT, and by the time I needed to print anything I felt like I had been there too long to ask dumb questions? But it’s not like being in IT means that you magically know the network address of every printer in the world.

      The only reason I finally figured it out was because it was out of toner or had a paper jam or something and sent an alert to an email list I am on.

  22. SophieChotek*

    Sorry…a little mini rant here.
    I am not in charge of data entry at my company…so when I get asked to send emails to our buyers, I have to ask another colleague to send me a list. But literally every time I ask for a list it is wildly different. I understand that our buyers will change, but a list from three months ago will be wildly different from a list I got yesterday, and names keep dropping off and reappearing, yet if I ask for an explanation one time the answer will be “oh, they did not make any purchases from us for X amount of time, so I consider them inactive” but then three months later that same buyer will appear on our list and if I ask for clarification she’ll say “oh, well they still carry our products but haven’t purchased anything new…”. I suppose I should just take whatever list she gives me and not worry about it, but I usually have to go through her list and slightly reformat it to make it work with Constant Contact, so I see all these variations.
    And it all came to a started when we sent a list to HQ of current buyers (like 40) and I was going to use that to send an email my boss wanted me to send to all our current vendors, so I asked her for clarification because it was so much shorter than my last list . So she sends me her most recent list to me (about 2 weeks later) of current buyers went up to about 150 yet some of those same buyers are ones she tells me and email the next day that they are inactive…
    Sigh…thanks for letting me vent. Back to staring at lists and going “huh?”….

    1. the.kat*

      Is she running the same query for you every time? If not, that might explain why things vary so wildly. Maybe you need to be more specific about what you’re looking for. As someone who occasionally runs those sort of queries, what you ask the system will wildly affect what you’re given.

      You could ask her to run the same report she ran for you last time with any updates on a weekly/monthly/quarterly basis if you knew you were going to get asked to send emails that regularly. It might save you some time and save her from staring at a blank screen and wondering what exactly it is that you want.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thanks. I have no idea how she run the query. I have no idea if she does a database and pulls from that or is enters it all into excel.

        I do know the last few times I’ve asked her for the exact same thing: current buyers – and received widely divergent lists in the space of 4-6 months. (To be considered inactive, buyer generally has to not buy for a year, sometimes two.)

        But good point. I’ll try to ensure she is clear on what I want.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          While I’m sure you’re being clear, it may not hurt to put the onus on her for clarity of details. “When I’m asking you for current buyers, can I ask what criteria you’re using in your queries?”

        2. Borgette*

          From a database standpoint, “current” is a really poorly defined term! Try asking for a list of all buyers who have [performed specific behavior] since [date] or something similarly explicit.

          1. SophieChotek*

            Thank you. You are both saying the same thing — I need to clarify what I want or ask her to clarify how she defines “current buyers” (or “active buyers”) so that we are on the same page, when I ask for the list.

            1. Anonymous Educator*

              Well, really, she should be clarifying with you if you’re being too vague (instead of just handing you an arbitrary list), but since she isn’t doing that, you’ll have to clarify with her.

          2. Troutwaxer*

            Your question should be phrased something like this: “All purchasers who have spent more than $100.00 between March 31st 2016 and March 31st 2017.” Your database person will then translate that into a database request that looks vaguely like this:

            “SELECT Name, Street_Address, City, State, ZIP_Code, Phone_Number FROM Customers WHERE Total_Annual_Purchases > $100.00”

            You might also ask your colleague about what fields are available in the company database, then you can make your request in the form of those fields. Here’s a simple introduction to SQL database. You can ignore the stuff about HTML and CSS:

            https://www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_intro.asp

            The exact fields in your database are probably different than those in the examples. If your data is kept in a spreadsheet it’s still useful to ask about what fields are in the spreadsheet (fields will probably be called “columns” in a spreadsheet.) Ask your colleague to explain how records are kept and how to query them and learn a little about how the database works and you’ll really improve the quality of the data you get.

  23. Kit M. Harding*

    It’s been suggested to me (by my mother, and it sounds weird) that the reason I haven’t been getting jobs is because I haven’t been wearing pantyhose to the interviews. I have nice flats and knee-length skirts, although I haven’t been wearing nylons either. Pantyhose seems old-fashioned, and I can’t concentrate while wearing it. But I have two interviews coming up so I thought I’d ask! (Also, I have now acquired a bright blue suit.) It’s not a conservative field; I’m a children’s librarian.

    Since I’ve been having a *lot* of interviews and no jobs, also, any suggestions as to common mistakes?

    1. Karo*

      I will say that there was a great pantyhose debate here some time ago. I think the general consensus was that a few people hate when others don’t wear them but that most people don’t care what you have on your legs.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yes — the first post I ever had to close comments on because some pantyhose fetishists showed up.

        There may still be a few very old-school industries that expect pantyhose. Most others don’t care.

      2. Anonygoose*

        I think also it was sort of determined that since SOME interviewers judge candidates for not wearing pantyhose, it might be better to just suck it up and wear it for interviews even if you personally dislike them, provided they wouldn’t be an insane distraction during the interview. Most interviewers probably wouldn’t care, but it’s better to wear them in case you get one that does.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Although then you’re upping the likelihood significantly that you’re going to be working for someone who cares if you wear pantyhose, so …

              1. Emi.*

                Right, but if the proportion of employers you apply to who require pantyhose is P, then your chances of working for a pantyhose-require go from 0 to P*R (where R=your success rate at those interviews when wearing pantyhose). Even if R is close to 1, P might still be small enough that P*R is still pretty much negligible.

          2. Bibliovore*

            hah! one of the reasons I became a children’s librarian was to never wear pantyhose again. That said, every interview 25 years ago, 20 years ago, I did wear a skirt and pantyhose. Dressing up for interviews was what was done.
            5 years ago for this job- interviewed in dress pants, a shell, a jacket.

            An no- never wore pantyhose again.

            1. zora*

              My mom told me when she finished her teacher’s certification in the early 60s, they gathered all the new teachers together and told them they had to wear a skirt suit, pantyhose, high heels and white gloves to go interview at schools. Hats were optional.

        2. Claire Roux*

          NOPE!

          I do not want to work for anyone who thinks pantyhose are required for interviews or otherwise. If you’ll judge me harshly for that– awesome, don’t want to work with/for you.

    2. regina phalange*

      For my current job, I had two Skype interviews & one phone interview. During the first Skype, I still had a brace on my nose from my nose job & two black eyes, and still got the job. Lack of pantyhose is probably not the issue. Also they are so uncomfortable, I wouldn’t be able to concentrate either. I hired someone once who showed up to an interview in jeans.

    3. kbeers0su*

      Hahahaha. That’s an odd thing to hang a claim on. I didn’t wear hose to my interview and only wear them now in winter (and they’re more tights than hose). I think mom’s just looking for a way to offer advice, which is sweet, but incorrect.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would have to know more about your interviews and your, say, presentation before I could make suggestions, but I can tell you this: your mother is very likely wrong. Like, way wrong. Like, people-don’t-often-notice-such-things wrong.

    5. Another Lawyer*

      I am always a little surprised when attorneys don’t wear them to interviews, but a children’s librarian I can’t imagine would ever need them.

      1. Children's Librarian*

        Am children’s librarian. Haven’t owned pantyhose in more than 10 years. I do love some fun leggings for my day to day work though!

        I usually wear pants to interviews, but haven’t been on one in a long time.

    6. Isben Takes Tea*

      I’m not able to link to the discussion now, but there was a Great Pantyhose Debate you could search the site for, and it seemed to shake out that there may be some particular regions or industries where pantyhose are Required, but for the most part they are not in the least necessary anymore.

      I’m guessing the lack of offer comes from the fact that from there are very few librarian jobs and a lot of potential librarians, and has nothing to do with your pantyhose. I’d skip them, especially if wearing them would put you off your game!

      Best of luck on the two coming up!

      1. anonymouse*

        THIS. I too am a children’s librarian and there are probably dozens if not hundreds of applicants for every open position. The fact that OP is getting interviews — plural — is encouraging.

    7. BenAdminGeek*

      Maybe certain people care. I cannot recall anything about what people’s pants/legs/skirts look like from interviews I have conducted. Except the dude with ripped jeans and an untucked shirt for a job that required business casual. That dude I remember.

    8. Manders*

      I haven’t seen anyone wearing pantyhose in years, and I work at an office where people dress fairly conservatively for my area. I think it’s much more likely that your lack of success so far has to do with the fact that you’re in a competitive field.

      1. gwal*

        I’m in my late 20’s and occasionally wear flesh-toned stockings (I guess that falls under the definition of pantyhose?) with close-toed shoes. Honest question, do people potentially see this as a faux pas for my age bracket these days?

        1. Sarah in DC*

          As a fellow 20 something I don’t think I would even notice. And if I did I can’t imagine a situation in which I would care or judge you for it one way or the other.

        2. Manders*

          I don’t think so? I’m not sure I’d notice, to be honest. Pantyhose always looks conspicuous on me because it’s not really made for people with olive skin tones, but if it actually matches your skin, I’m not so sure it would even be obvious enough to notice.

    9. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      It depends on your region and industry. Based on my biases, however, I find people who obsess about nylons, especially when your skirt is knee-length, are ridiculous. It’s also just an insane reason not to hire someone who is otherwise professionally attired.

    10. Spoonie*

      On the occasions that I wear a skirt to an interview, I usually wear black tights/black skirt. I’m much more of a slacks/trousers type, so…I don’t know that my opinion is valid. Also, I’m quite pale, so finding hose that looks like it belongs in the same realm as my skin type is very difficult.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Me too–and I don’t like wearing dress shoes without some kind of barrier between them and my feet, because I get blisters. I know they have those little sock things you can buy now (like Peds) and wear inside flats, pumps, etc. But one of the main reasons I don’t wear dresses or skirts, besides feeling fat/uncomfortable in them, is the no-hose thing.

      2. Bibliovore*

        And in terms of job openings, children’s librarian is more marketable as a children’s librarian is perfectly capable of doing adult reference but there are adult reference librarians who can’t/won’t deal with kids.
        Oh and there is a great job opening in White Plains NY if you are near there.

    11. Teapot librarian*

      I’ve been interviewing candidates for a position in my office, and my boss (also in the interviews) is incredibly judgy about this stuff. One woman had teal nail polish on and my boss thought it was inappropriate. So yes, you’ll run into issues like this. But unless you’re applying to be a children’s librarian consultant at a Fortune 500 company, you should be fine. In my opinion, at least.

    12. paul*

      I’ve never heard anything like that. Not to be crass, but how old is your mother? My MIL is…jeez, 70 now I think? and the fashion advice she tried to give my wife when she was interviewing would be more appropriate to the era she was working in (and she left the workforce in the 80s!). It could just be that sort of disconnect.

      1. Kit M. Harding*

        Oh, she’s in her late fifties, but she does hiring at times for her workplace (a different helping profession than mine, but still involves working with children), and as I understand it most definitely Judges the new grads applying for not wearing pantyhose.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I’m in my mid 50s so maybe a couple years younger than your mother? I have not worn pantyhose in 20 years or so. I seem to find jobs.

          Let’s look at this from the opposite direction. Do you want to work for someone who makes hiring decisions based on pantyhose? Tell your mom that you don’t want to work for anyone who makes hiring decisions based on whether someone is wearing pantyhose or not. That is not how to run a stable business.

    13. Joa*

      This varies by field and location, but the public library world is firmly in the camp of “hose don’t matter.” Of course, you might run across the odd interviewer with a personal hang-up, but that would be unusual. I’m a library director and few librarians I’ve interviewed have worn hose. Tights in the winter, but not sheer nylons.

      1. Bibliovore*

        I can’t tell you how happy I was to ditch the “interview suit” Mr. Bibliovore told me I looked like a nun in it.

    14. copy run start*

      I DO wear pantyhose, but only because my skin is perpetually dry and the pantyhose covers up the dryness! I don’t judge anyone who forsakes them… I’m actually really jealous.

  24. Halls of Montezuma*

    In honor of April Fools Day:

    On AAM, we’ve heard lots of horror stories about pranks and jokes gone wrong (or where they were just plain mean in the first place), but what about where they genuinely were fun?

    1. Tau*

      When I started work there were googly eyes on my PC. Apparently they’d been added for my predecessor because my coworkers wondered if he’d notice them. He didn’t, but I love them and have kept them! :) It helps when I’m getting frustrated with how slow my computer is (it doesn’t have the best specs) – I take note of the way it’s looking at me sadly and go “aw, I’m sure it’s trying as hard as it can.”

      1. C Average*

        I love this!

        A few years back I needed googly eyes for a craft project and bought a huge bag of them because it was a better value. My younger stepdaughter decided to glue them on various appliances around the house, including the toilets. It’s not unusual to hear laughter coming from our guest bathroom the first time a visitor encounters Lou, as we’ve named that particular toilet.

      2. Havarti*

        I taped one of those really tiny baby chicks made from pipe-cleaner with seed bead eyes to my boss’s phone to see if she would notice. She did and she kept it. It’s still there to this day.

      3. Fact & Fiction*

        When a beloved former coworker left my current job, she placed googly eyes on various office supplies of the folks who sit in our immediate area. We were a small group that gets along well and she has a fun, kooky sense of humor so it made us laugh. My googly eyes are on my tape dispenser and I smile and think about her every time I see them. Or the little Star Wars figurine she gifted me when she left because she knows I play SWTOR. I really miss her!

      4. SC in SC*

        I had nothing to do with these pranks but they had to be two of the best I’ve seen. One colleague went overseas for a few weeks. While he was away a group of people walled-up the doorway to his office. It was quality work where you couldn’t tell there was an entrance there. Our VP was so proud of the work that he used to drag people from the hallway to show it off. The other was with the same group. One of their team had recently got married so they decided to have a little fun and install an actuator on his desk drawer that tied to a pump they loaded with perfume so that it sprayed down from the HVAC vent over his desk every time he opened his desk. They thought it was hilarious that he would go home every day smelling like perfume. That one didn’t go over so well since the company said it was a safety issue climbing into the ceiling to set it up.

    2. EA*

      I had a manager once who was an Ohio State fan. I’m a Michigan fan. (for those who don’t follow sports, OSU-UM is one of probably the top 5 major rivalries in college sports)

      He had his desk decorated with OSU paraphernalia … I took a stack of blue and yellow post-its, and put a big M on his computer monitor, and also brought in a Michigan flag and hung it over his OSU flag.

      Not much in the way of pranks, but he and I both got a good laugh over it.

      1. Rache*

        My boss is OSU alumni and extremely vocal about it. There have been UM and MSU pranks pulled on her – but not April Fool’s timing related – it usually happens during football season.

        Side note… my birthday is April Fool’s Day. :) Best day ever!

    3. Ihmmy*

      We filled my coworkers office with balloons and ridiculously photoshopped pictures of him one time, he had a blast swarming through the balloons and popping them. The two balloons we tucked a cup of water into surprised him though… but he was still entertained. I got him an annoy-a-tron from think geek for xmas that year which he loved using on us.

      Same office, different coworker, used to hide under my desk in the morning and jump out and scare me as I turned the corner to get settled. Like, once a week did this, and it still startled me every time.

      it was a small, pranky office for a little while there. All well natured, but also small and most of us were youngish, and it was a culture we fostered. I wouldn’t do any of that in most offices

    4. MeridaAnn*

      In my last office, I brought in a bowl of what looked like just M&Ms, but actually had skittles mixed in as well. I took the time to take out the skittles colors that don’t exist as M&Ms and removed a lot of the same-colored M&Ms so that the color balance wouldn’t look off or anything (yellow skittles are the most convincing, because you can’t see the “S” very well). There were only 4 or 5 of us in that office and I knew ahead of time that there weren’t any dietary concerns with the Skittles.

      One by one, each of my coworkers grabbed a handful of the candies, started to chew, just stared at me for a moment, and then laughed. It went over really well. And the best part was that they continued to eat them throughout the day by the handful, not separating out the Skittles even when they knew they were there.

      1. BigSigh*

        I did this in my own candy bowl on my desk, My boss was pissed and asked me to separate them out. Even brought me a spoon to do so.

        1. Emi.*

          OH MY GOSH. On the other hand, this might be a good way to screen for vampires in the workplace.

      2. Marisol*

        this is so creative, so gross, so hilarious, and yet ultimately, so low-stakes. The perfect prank. I wish April 1st fell on a weekday so I could do this.

    5. Not Australian*

      Fun but also hard work – Work Colleague and I put a false appointment in our boss’s diary, then came in early and cleared all the furniture out of his office and locked it in the store room. (The false appointment was to give us time to put it all back again after he’d enjoyed the joke but before he needed to meet with anyone in his office.) Okay, it did waste a bit of working time – but we were both so far ‘in credit’ with him that we felt we could get away with it. Luckily, he agreed. The next time we wrote anything in his diary he actually checked with us that it wasn’t a joke: we’d put “Work Colleague and Not Australian are getting married on [date] – please come and help us celebrate”. He was the first person we told. Happy memories…

    6. Halls of Montezuma*

      Our office has a set of twin brothers who look so much alike that people tend to confuse them until they work closely with one or the other. They are both engineers with similar specialties, so one day they swapped offices and waited to see who figured it out and how long it took… one particular project manager did not notice for weeks, because the other brother was perfectly able to answer his questions!

    7. BenAdminGeek*

      It was a small thing, but always made me laugh. OldOldJob I had the same cubemate for 6 years. Every week he’d put a piece of tape over the laser for my mouse. I never got used to it. I’d get all flummoxed and start banging the mouse until he started cracking up and then I would too.

      1. Sarah in DC*

        Last year a coworker tried to do this to me but used clear tape so the mouse worked pretty much fine. I only noticed because the edge of the tape was catching on my mouse pad and making a little scratching noise. I thought it was funnier that he did :)

    9. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I had a coworker who actually liked pranks, but was very considerate and kind, and so never played one on me, but we talked a lot about filling someone’s office with balloons up to the ceiling, or doing something odd to our own cubicles, which were adjacent.

      So one day he was out, and since we had been recently joking about merging cubicles and doing something weird with the space (I think making it into a tiki bar, sand and all), I figured out the font that we use for “nameplates”, which in our office are just a piece of paper behind a piece of clear plastic. I put a piece of paper with “Cosmic Avenger (annex)” behind the plastic but in front of his name, and waited until he came back to tease him about having to pay me rent. :D

      I think he left it up for about a week.

      1. BigSigh*

        A coworker, just this morning, said: “Hey seeing as we’re not in tomorrow, I have to tell you something today.”

        Me: “Ok.”

        Her: “I love you.”

        Me: “Awwww, that’s sweet.”

        Her: “Just kidding, April Fools!”

        Me: “Awww.” Sad face.

        1. Marisol*

          eeek! I can see this one going awry. Good thing you didn’t profess love back or anything like that.

    10. Hilary*

      When a co-worker was on vacation, I secured access to their office to do the following: cover desk and office furniture in post-its, create post-it mural (like a post-it “around the world” quilt) on wall, hide approx 30 pictures of David Hasselhoff through his career (he’s played Captn. Hook and Nick Fury!), and a layer of balloons on his floor a foot or so deep.
      The victim…err…coworker loved it! The best part was that he was still finding Hasselhoff pictures when we moved offices months later.

    11. C Average*

      I used to have a job that included writing internal blog posts for our customer service team. Typical posts would be about new product launches, emerging bugs, PR statements about news items involving our company, policy changes, that sort of thing.

      Every April Fool’s Day, I’d write something really ridiculous and PhotoShop something funny to go with it. One year, I wrote about how we were releasing a version of one of our most popular products for pets. (Our product line was definitely for humans, not animals.) Another year, I wrote about our plans to open call centers on other planets to ensure that we were ahead of the competition when Mars is colonized. I invented (and PhotoShopped–it took forever) a really absurd product collaboration between our company and a competitor. These posts always got far more looks and likes than anything else all year. Every year, I looked forward to trying to outdo myself.

      It wasn’t an April Fool’s Day prank, but my best work prank ever was actually inspired by a comment on AAM. Before I left my last job, I created a folder on the shared drive labeled “TOP SECRET — DO NOT OPEN.” I created about a dozen sub-folders with similar names. In the last one, I created one Word doc that contained only one line, a hyperlink: “WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK.” The link was to Rick Astley performing Never Gonna Give You Up, and I disguised the link with a bit.ly address.

      I got an email from a former colleague about it nearly a year later, and he said it delighted the whole team on an otherwise boring Thursday.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        My favorite tea website did an April Fools thing a year or two ago where they announced they were launching Tea for Cats.

        Some of my friends were quite disappointed that it wasn’t legit.

      2. An Anonymous Person*

        I drive our April Fool’s jokes at my work. They’re internal only. The first one was about turning our much-beloved caterpillar mascot toy into a cat. I developed one for last year that didn’t get used because a company tragedy happened days before, so I’m hoping to get it up and running for this year. Introducing a company-wide uniform – caterpillar onesies. (We play on the caterpillar thing a lot, our mascot is VERY popular with our retail team members.)

        1. C Average*

          Yeah, I can’t remember who posted it, but it was on an “embarrassing work confessions” thread. I remember reading it and thinking, “Embarrassing? That’s not embarrassing. That’s GENIUS.”

    12. Erin*

      My work did an April Fool’s article last year on an underwater hotel being built in our area. It blew up on social media and it’s still coming up in Google searches, a year later.

    13. CDM*

      DH had a co-worker who bought a pack of peanut M&Ms at lunch every day, and was tracking the lot numbers and color distributions.

      DH brought home a pack of M&Ms from the cafeteria, I opened the packaging, replaced the M&Ms with pink breast cancer awareness ones, plus one orange one, and re-sealed the package to look new. (not going to tell how, but it is scarily easy)

      Another co-worker distracted him at lunch so DH could switch his bag for the rigged one.

      The joke is that after they went back to the office, he left the rigged pack on his desk, and left the office for several minutes.

      He thought he’d won some sort of contest, lol. Even when they told him he’d been pranked, he couldn’t figure out how they’d done it. “The lot numbers match!”

    14. Bonky*

      I scotch-taped a picture of Simon Cowell’s face to the underside of a work friend’s mouse so it blocked the optical sensor. Only confused him for about ten seconds, but the reaction when he turned the mouse over was priceless. Nobody was hurt, the tape was the easy-remove sort, and everybody laughed.

    15. Annie Moose*

      Not an April Fool’s prank, but at OldJob there was a tradition of hiding this, ah, extremely startling goblin/demon/??? head in people’s offices. (it wasn’t scary, just not what you’d expect to see–kind of like a Japanese oni mask, with this big grin and huge staring eyes? I’m not actually sure what it was originally for) So you’d come in one day and pull out your chair and he’d be sitting there looking up at you. Or you’d open your cupboard and he’d be inside. You never knew where he’d show up next.

    16. Elizabeth West*

      I think I’ve posted this before. I used to work at a materials testing lab and a previous employee had left behind a life-sized cardboard cutout of Frankenstein’s monster. We would put it behind doors, around corners, etc. to startle each other. They got me once when they put it in the bathroom behind the door—I came in, shut the door behind me, and BOO there he was. They tried to get me by putting it in the file room in the basement, but I caught a glimpse of him before turning on the light, so that one fell flat. Once I put him in the metallurgist’s darkroom and it scared him silly. He got mad at me–I apologized, but we secretly giggled about it for the rest of the day.

      We also had a big rubber rat that squeaked when you squeezed it (I have no idea where all this stuff came from!) and we would put it in the fridge on top of people’s lunch. When they opened the door, it would scare them. The business closed in 2001 but I still have the rat. It hangs out on the bookcase in my living room. :)

      God, I loved that job.

    17. Pharmgirl*

      I had to work Christmas Eve, and came in that morning to find *everything* wrapped in Christmas paper. That one was pretty fun, and we still finding random pens and such wrapped up even now.

    18. AnonForThis*

      One time the administrative assistant in another group managed by a useless boss went on FMLA for 2 months. The useless boss then started bombarding my assistant and all the other managers with requests, despite the fact that her admin had left detailed, color coded, annotated instructions for her or whoever was covering. Our admins were overwhelmed and annoyed, so the other managers and me told them to refer all requests to us and we would either pass them on, do them ourselves, or say no.

      For eight weeks we got things like
      “Can you send me the email I sent last week, or was it last month? I think it was to Fergus or maybe Jane?”
      “Can you send me $file that everyone in the department has access to?”,
      “Can one of you come with me to X meeting so I have someone to give me directions when I drive (we have work phones with maps”
      “Can you send Y to Wakeen (Y is a report she wrote and we have no Wakeen in the office and could not figure out which external Wakeen she meant)?”
      Etc. about 30+ times a day

      The day before the admin returned from FMLA, all of us wrote ridiculous requests on post it notes and covered her screen, mouse, keyboard, etc. and on her chair we put a gift that was something the other admins had told us she was saving up to buy. When she saw it she started laughing so hard that she started to snort laugh and cry. She thanked us and said it was the best welcome back.

      We also went to her managers ‘s boss and laid our experience on the table. Incompetent manager went on a PIP and finally got fired

  25. J.B.*

    Has anyone gotten an additional degree or certificate at a community college for purposes of switching careers (or at least switching focus within your own industry)? Were there any useful job search/career connections available to you through the community college?

    1. I Like Pie*

      I’m currently taking Allied Health courses at my local CC to change into the health sector. Completely different from what I do now. I’ve had instructors who, in addition to teaching us the subject matter, are also really helpful with career advice/experience to the class. They have told me how to break into the field, what employers will want to see on the resumes, etc. It’s been really helpful for me, as a 35+ yr old trying to get into a new field. (I have 25 years of office work experience that can be transferred to a new job, but none of it health field related.) My campus has a career center which will post jobs and the Allied Health advisor sends us lots of information on internships, volunteer opportunities and job fairs. It’s definitely worth looking into; my only negative is that the program I am in is new to the campus, so it’s not as detailed as it is at other sites. I am not required/placed in an internship, which would have been good to know ahead of time.

    2. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Currently doing so. 3 weeks left to go and school is finished! There is a career centre but the jobs they get are geared to new graduates finishing school for the first time. For an old guy like me they’re too entry level. The profs are another matter and a resource you should mine with enthusiasm. They often have connections to former peers and students who are now working and can help you find that next job.

  26. not really a lurker anymore*

    My husband submitted a resume a few weeks ago. They promptly asked for a phone interview, which lasted about 45 minutes. He’s interested. Company rep also discussed the planned timeline and assured my husband that they wanted to bring him in for an in person interview.

    When the week the company had said they wanted to do interviews in passed, my husband emailed, inquiring about the timeline. He was told that there had been some issues on their end, that they hadn’t held interviews yet and still wanted to interview him.

    I think it’s been a couple of weeks. He wants to reach out again to them. I know from here that he probably shouldn’t do it but would it really be that terrible to do? He wouldn’t reach out again.

    1. jordanjay29*

      I’m in the exact same boat right now. I’m assuming that “having some issues” is going to persist until they reach out to me, and calling them won’t make it conclude faster.

      Tell your husband to move on. If they call back, great. If not, he’s moved on to applying to other opportunities and has more options to pursue.

    2. BRR*

      I don’t think it’s the worst thing but I wouldn’t do it. It’s very unlikely to result in anything and might annoy them. They know he’s around for when they do interviews.

  27. Bee*

    Feb. 5 – I applied for a job
    Feb. 16 – They emailed me to schedule a phone interview
    Feb. 23 – I had my phone interview
    Feb. 28 – They emailed me to schedule an in-service interview
    March 7 – I had my in-person interview
    March 10 – They emailed me about a “final interview” on the phone with a higher-up
    March 15 – I had my final phone interview
    Then I never heard from them again.
    March 27 – I emailed to ask if they could share a timeline about next steps. No response.
    Is there anything else I should do now? I feel like I just need to go on with life assuming that I didn’t get this job.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Yes, just move on with your life. I know it sucks. Back about 10 years ago I was interviewing for a job I was excited about, and they moved suuuuuper slowly. I had a phone screen, then nothing for six weeks, then an in-person interview, nothing for ages, a second interview … then dead air. I think two months later I got a postcard telling me I hadn’t gotten the job.

    2. Last but not least*

      I would definitely move on. If you get a response, it’ll be a nice surprise. I had an interview process a few years ago that was similar – though much more disorganized. I interviewed with HR, the hiring manager, then they forgot they scheduled an interview with me and I met with the hiring manager again and then had a meeting with several in senior management. After 4 interviews, you would think I would get some kind of personalized response, but no. They mailed me a form letter that began Dear [lastname]. No Ms. or Mrs. or Miss. Just Dear Peterson. And up until that point all of our communication had been via email. It was cowardly and immature. And since the person they hired left after 5 months, i’m pretty sure I dodged a bullet.

    3. jordanjay29*

      I’d assume you didn’t.

      On the off chance that you’ll still get it, they may have had delays in getting heads together to discuss your candidacy. Or HR is out this week and hasn’t gotten a chance to respond to your email (and no one else is checking). It’s also possible budget problems are holding up the position, or they want to wait until after the current deadline to bring in a new hire.

  28. EA*

    One of my supervisors (I have 3, this is the one I do the least amount of work for) is making rude comments about my vacations/travel situation. I am trying to shut her down, but nothing so far has worked. I make 60k a year, live in a high cost of living city, but try and budget and save to travel. It is important to me so I prioritize it. I also don’t have children, so I imagine that helps.

    The first time, I was going to Hawaii. I got “Are you parents taking you” when I said no ‘Is your boyfriend taking you” I just said “wow, and no, I am taking myself”. I tried wow because it is Alison’s script she uses. Whenever I request days off (the company gives us a lot of vacation), I get “really, MORE vacations, I can’t imagine how you travel so much” I generally just nod. I just got back last week from another trip out west. Everyone was talking about weekend plans, and I said I didn’t have plans. I get “I imagine you need to chill out for a bit to pay off the credit cards bills from all your trips, right?” I was so stunned I just was silent. About 15 people heard this, and I really hate her insinuating that I am in debt. This one pisses me off because I have worked hard to save and afford these things, and do not just put them on a credit card.

    Should I just try not to take it personally? Or be like “I’d appreciate if you stopped making comments about my travel situation”.

    1. Natalie*

      I don’t know that you can’t do both, although since this is a supervisor I would probably lean more towards taking it less personally than asking her to stop. Instead of continuing to try and explain to her, could you just give a short, chipper “Yep!” or “Nope!” as relevant and nothing else?

      1. Marisol*

        I agree, do both. Since it’s your supervisor and you’re an EA, I imagine you work fairly closely with this person? My philosophy for situations like that is that you’ve built enough equity into the relationship to speak your mind freely. If I were in your shoes, I’d try something like this:

        Sup: So, I bet you’re up to your eyeballs in debt, har har!
        EA: Why do you say things like that? Are you trying to make me feel bad?
        Sup: Naw, I’m just teasing you! You’re just being sensitive!
        EA: I know you’re not trying to be mean, but I don’t like having my boss insinuate that I can’t manage my money. As you know, I earn a modest living, and to have someone who makes significantly more money than I do, and who, moreover, is my boss, tease me about my finances is really humiliating. Would you please quit it?
        Sup: [grumble, hem, haw…etc.]

        I see a script like that as 1) coming from the heart, 2) respectful, and 3) strong. There are some people, especially a lot of EA’s I think, that would never confront a boss so directly, but I say, it’s the relationships that really matter where you have to stand your ground and advocate for yourself. Otherwise, the entire foundation of the relationship is shit, and business objectives will suffer. I might be too afraid, or too lazy, to have lots of necessary confrontations in my daily life, but the confrontation I think is most necessary, ironically, is the one where I’m pointing out when my boss is being a jerk to me. And you’re speaking from the heart about how you feel, rather than making accusations or being disrespectful. So it’s not “improper” to have a conversation like that, as it would be if you were to attribute an evil motive, call him a jerk, etc.

        What I wouldn’t do is make repeated pointed, one-off comments, like, “wow” or whatever. I’d have a direct, heartfelt conversation about it.

        If that doesn’t work and she continues, then I would respond to her comments by looking at her blankly and in total silence. No offended face, no rolled eyes, no exasperated sighs, just blank face and silence. Doing that makes people feel really self conscious and stupid, so as a last resort perhaps shaming her into behaving would work.

        1. EA*

          This is good advice. I really appreciate the time you took to type up such a detailed response!

    2. KatieKate*

      YIKES

      How do you think a “why would you say that?” or “what makes you think that?” go over?

    3. Stop That Goat*

      Wow…I think that’s pretty inappropriate and honestly comes off as a bit of jealousy. I vaguely remember a similar issue coming up in a previous column.

      Personally, I’d comment next time that “I’m glad that I’m able to budget and save for trips.” If it comes up again, I’d be more likely to pull her aside and express that she seems a bit preoccupied with your finances and ask if there is a reason why this keeps coming up.

      1. Telly*

        100% this supervisor is jealous of you and wishes that she had the money/time/inclination to travel more herself. There is no reason for her to make these comments other than jealousy and trying to make herself feel better through being passive-aggressive. Have a little empathy that she is obviously discontent with some aspects of her life, and mostly ignore her. I like the idea of having a simple response like “I’m glad that I’m able to budget to save for trips.”

    4. Kimberly R*

      That is annoying. Can you say something directly, such as : “Jane, why do you think it is appropriate to comment about my budget or my money?” If you won’t lose too much from the work relationship by doing this, I would do it. Especially in front of other people. I’m sure everyone in earshot feels uncomfortable that she is discussing your finances (without knowing them!) in front of them-put the awkwardness on her where it belongs. If she says something about how much you travel or how expensive your vacations are, you can just comment that you work hard for them and end the conversation.

      If you would get too much flak to be able to say the above question, I would just give her a cold look and walk away. Your finances and vacations are none of her business.

    5. Not Australian*

      “No, aren’t I lucky, I don’t need to borrow money for anything!” And your cheesiest and least-sincere smile…

    6. INeedANap*

      I would try and put it back on her with a question. “Supervisor, is my travel a problem for this position? You comment on it a lot, and I’m wondering why. Can you tell me why this is an issue for you?”

    7. Amy*

      If this was a peer, I’d consider telling them to cut it out. Since it’s a supervisor, I’d be concerned that might not go over super well.

      I think what you’re doing is pretty good. When she asks appropriate questions, give a brief answer and move on. When she says something inappropriate, “Wow (insert side eye here), that’s a weird assumption! No, I’m taking myself/no, my finances are fine/whatever.” She sounds jealous and awkward, and may or may not pick up on those kinds of comments being unwelcome, but people around you will see your response and recognize what’s really going on.

    8. Anonygoose*

      Ugh I love to travel too and while nobody has made any comments about it at work, I get it sometimes from my extended family. If I know them well enough, I usually just tell them: “Yupp, that’s the benefit of going without Cable TV/Daily Starbucks/Manicures/Owning a House/insert whatever ‘normal’ thing you cut out in order to budget for travel.

      My fiance and I were recently asked if we would move to a bigger apartment or buy a house when he starts working (he is currently in school). They were presented as the only two options. I told them that we would be doing neither – our current cheap rent means we can travel more when he’s done! Woohoo!

    9. Spoonie*

      I’m really loving that “what an interesting thing to say” response I’ve seen floating around AAM lately. Your supervisor sounds ridiculously jealous, and I’m personally impressed with your ability to travel — it’s something I’m working to attain (building my PTO bank, sigh).

    10. Falling Diphthong*

      This is where the anthropology approach might help. View her as odd but not your job to fix, and try to reach deep and find some mild bemusement.

      1. EA*

        Alison’s anthropology approach is one of my favorite things on this site. I’ll just pretend that I am observing this alien race of entitled people without boundaries.

    11. Clever Name*

      It sounds like your coworker is jealous and taking it out by making sniping remarks. I think how you react will depend on your relationship with her and your personality. I think the safest path may be to ignore it or simply don’t discuss your vacations when she can hear you. You can also say, “You seem to be overly interested in how I pay for my vacations. Why?” I have a coworker who made some snarky comment about me buying a new car and making car payments on it and implied that he was superior for paying cash (like a couple thousand) for his cars. Sure, everyone makes different financial choices, and I later realized that he’s probably jealous of my financial situation (me- own a house, no cc debt, no college loans, ample retirement savings; him- rents, cc debt, college loans, probably no retirement whatsoever), and he’s trying to make himself feel superior about snarking on me taking out a car loan.

    12. Academia Escapee*

      “That’s weird. You’re very interested in how I spend my money. Does that mean you’re giving me a raise?”

    13. Not So NewReader*

      I had bought a used SUV years ago. I drove it to work the first day and one of my coworkers commented on it. Finally he worked himself around to saying, “So that costs around X amount. You probably took out a Y number of years loans, so you must have ended up with a loan payment of Z per month.”

      I shook my head. “Naw. I just paid cash.”

      It was fun to watch his jaw hit the ground.

      Why would you take it personally when it has nothing to do with you or your life? It’s not reality. And who cares what she thinks, truly.

      Honestly, I would just shut it down.
      I see two approaches.
      1) Head on like I did. “Jane you always ask me about finances for my trips. I believe in paying in cash and not using much credit. So that should answer any questions you have now or in the future. I am great with budgeting and I do a solid job planning nice trips for a reasonable price.”

      2)Ask to speak to her in her office. “Jane, it’s happened several times now where you ask me about debt. I have noticed that unfortunately you ask me in front of others. What’s up with that?”

      Here you are going to the same basic place. “I follow a written budget I have for myself. I take my time and plan my trips in a cost effective manner. My trips are factored into the budget plan I follow.”

      Keep in mind, that if a person has never seen anyone do this, she might genuinely be surprised/intrigued. At which point, you can offer to show her how you find economical trips… or not. Then you can tell her that you would prefer not to discuss your finances, period.

      If she is just doing it to be a jerk, then you can just cut to the part about, “Jane, I don’t see how my finances have anything to do with my work here. If the topic comes up again, I will be reminding you that it has nothing to do with my work here.” Then do just that.

    14. LCL*

      I disagree with many of the responses given. When did every small talk work interaction become so freaking adversarial? It’s not you EA, it is the general social climate. So many posts on so many sites, that all boil down to ‘someone asked me a question/said something to me and I don’t like it, should I be offended?’

      Be offended or don’t, think what you want. But a lot of these remarks are just stupid remarks, and are the result of a coworker clumsily groping for some conversational topic. If someone’s interests are different from the majority of the group, people are going to have questions. In most workplaces that I am familiar with, the single person who stringently budgets to travel is a small minority. And those of us that don’t travel for ‘reasons’ admire you for that and are curious and want to know how you do it.

      1. Call me St. Vincent*

        I think the difference here is the supervisor is saying these comments to belittle the OP. It isn’t just a work comment or small talk being take out of context–it’s pointedly trying to hurt OP’s feelings, which is not okay.

  29. Hermione*

    I’m curious if others have funny things they way overthink about at work. For me, it’s CC’ing and e-mailing in general. It will take me ages to craft an e-mail if I let myself take as much time as my anxiety would prefer, even for e-mails with really low stakes. It just gets me nervous – what if I say the wrong thing, or bug someone important?! Ugh, I’ve been working on it.

    Anyone have any simple things that you way overthink?

    2. MeridaAnn*

      Emails are so stressful for me. I want them to be short enough to be to the point and so that no one misses anything, but I don’t want them to come across as curt or blunt, either. And does it matter what order you put the addressees in? Is someone going to feel slighted if they’re later on the list or CC’d instead of included in the main line? And a million other questions that get in the way and make me hesitant to hit send, but I have to get it out quickly so I can get a response, and and and and… Very frustrating…

      2. Accidental Analyst*

        For me it’s 1-10 minutes writing the body and I don’t want to admit how much time thinking of what pleasantries to include. I’ve taken to putting a highlighted ‘insert pleaseantries here’ line so I can write the email first without getting blocked by the fluff. I’m trying to standardise the pleasantries but it all feels so forced/fake

    3. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      Emails is a big one for me. I also have a lot of anxiety ordering food for groups or events as I’m never sure how much I need/how much is too much/not enough. I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at pizza/sandwich orders!

    4. Amber Rose*

      Yes, emails. I will stress over it with my cursor hovering over the send button, debating whether I should read it over *one more time* just in case I messed something up.

      I also stress a bit about filing when my boss is in his office because the filing cabinets are right by his door and I don’t wanna seem like, intrusive. Which I know is ridiculous, but I still find myself quickly filing when I see he’s away from his desk.

    6. Purest Green*

      People in the elevator, to talk or not to talk? People in the echoing stairwell, to greet or not to greet? People exiting the door you’re entering at the same time, what do I even do?

      1. Arjay*

        Ha! I love at the end of the day when one person says Hello” and the other person says “Good night.” Both are appropriate, but when they’re combined, I find it quite amusing.

        1. Purest Green*

          I witnessed this exchange recently in the lobby. A passerby said, “good morning” to a woman who responded by shaking her head. I died.

    7. Emilia Bedelia*

      Email subjects! I hate those. The text is usually alright, but the subject trips me up every time.

    8. Vieve*

      I have this problem with email too!!! Honestly sometimes it gets to the point where I just hit send because I’ve spent so much time on a message…and then I later discover I actually had a typo or something and that biting the bullet and hitting send wasn’t even a good way to deal with it. I hope I’m just getting better with practice, though.

    9. yarnowl*

      I do it with emails a ton too! For example, I work on a lot of projects where it will be me working with a very senior salesperson and then their account manager, and sometimes I work more closely with the account manager and sometimes more closely with the salesperson, and if I’m ever emailing the account manager something but I want the salesperson to see it too, I have this big dumb debate in my head about, “Should I cc the salesperson or put them in the To: field? Should I put them first or the account manager first? Will they be insulted if I put the account manager first?”

      It’s gotten much better as I’ve developed relationships with people and figured out which ones would actually care about something like that and which ones wouldn’t. But I still overthink it a lot!

    10. LaurenB*

      I send emails every so often in my second language. I will never, ever let my manager know how long I take to craft those emails! Grammar, spelling, word choice, phrasing… and then I end up with a super stiff sounding email so I have to go back and make it sound more friendly. Often to the point of taking out phrases I just spent 10 minutes looking up.

      Also, who to sit with in the cafeteria. It’s exacerbated by the bilingual workplace thing, and that I’m obviously not that comfortable in the minority language, and if I sit with people speaking that language they often feel obliged to switch to English… I end up just going to the gym rather than dealing with the office and language politics of the cafeteria.

    11. Snazzy Hat*

      At my last job especially, each time I had a new issue I needed to e-mail a client about, I would go over the wording with my supervisor (which, while I was in training, could vary depending on the task) before sending the e-mail. I had no clue how they communicated in that industry or department or company, and I didn’t know how much autonomy I had. Could I say, “I’m sorry, we can’t do that,” or did I have to say “I’ll have to check with my supervisor” knowing full well that the supervisor would tell them we can’t do that? Could I write as little as, “Your request is attached,” and sign it “Thanks, Snazzy”, or did I need to be more formal and say, “Thank you so much for choosing Awesome Company for your coolness supplies. We appreciate your business, and have provided the information you requested as an attachment. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Have a great day. Sincerely, Snazzy Hat, Order Fulfillment, Townville, ST”

    12. Squeeble*

      SO many things, but a big one for me is asking clarifying questions. What if it’s a stupid question? What if the answer is hiding in an email somewhere that I’ve forgotten? What if someone just said the thing I need to know, but I wasn’t paying attention, and now everyone will know? What if I ask my boss a question so inane that it makes her realize how inept I am?

    13. TL -*

      Not emails, but email subject lines. I’ll spend way too long trying to think of something that is relevant, nice, and non-awkward.

    14. Annie Moose*

      Ahhh, emails are hard for me too.

      Something I do is when I catch myself obsessing over an email, I make myself just leave it as is and do something else for awhile, and only come back to the email later, like at the end of the day. (if it’s not a super time-sensitive issue, of course!) I’ve found that when I reread it after some time away from it, it usually sounds just fine, and all the things I was worrying about really don’t seem that big anymore.

  30. DevAssist*

    So…apparently payroll was processed but it hasn’t yet hit our accounts. Our poor HR assistant (Who doesn’t actually handle payroll) is swamped with calls. We all normally have DD that shows up by like 5 AM, and it is now 8:15AM and we’re all still waiting.

    So…how is everyone else doing?

    1. SophieChotek*

      Hope it gets sorted out soon! Poor HR assistant…I’d be stressed (especially if she doesn’t know much anyway.)

    2. Cece*

      We had that once last year. It took until about 10:30 for everything to get sorted, but in the meantime HR sent around a “known issue, a thousand apologies, getting it sorted immediately” email to all staff.

    3. SaraV*

      This happened a few years ago with the husband. I deposited a check on his payday at the bank, and our account balance was totally missing a number. (This was late morning) Told husband about it, and he went to talk to his boss, also owner. Someone else overheard him and said “Oh yeah, I noticed that with my account, too.” And you didn’t mention it? They were able to get the money in the next day, but the company had to cover some overdraft fees.

  31. Lost and Found*

    Have an odd question for you. We recently found a random earring in our offices. We checked with all of our staff including part timers and the cleaning staff that only comes in a few times a day and it doesn’t belong to any of them. So now the assumption is that it belongs to one of the women who recently came in to interview. My feeling is that it would be odd to contact them about something like a random earring that may or may not belong to them, as they are probably eager to hear to other jobs they are applying to (we have filled the position by the way, so they would have already received a rejection), so it’s best to just forget about it. But IS there a way, or a compelling reason, to follow up with them to see if it belongs to any of the candidates who were in recently?

      1. kbeers0su*

        If it looks like even a decent earring I would shoot a quick email out with a subject line that makes it clear that it’s not about the job. You never know what monetary or sentimental value something like that might have.

    2. Here we go again*

      I think it is very courteous to let them know an earring was found and ask if they would like it back, particularly if it was expensive or unique. I don’t think you need an additional, compelling reason, just an FYI, we want to find this earring’s rightful owner.

      1. Lost and Found*

        It’s actually just a simple hoop, so not all that fancy but you never know when something has sentimental attachments.

        1. Rache*

          I have simple hoop earrings that were a gift from my HS sweetheart – to see them, you wouldn’t think they were even remotely sentimental. But, we’re still great friends after breaking up over 20 years ago – and I would be brokenhearted to have lost one and have no hope of finding it.
          I agree to the suggestion of sending out an email to all interviewees (BCC’d of course) – with the subject line of “found earring” so that they have the opportunity to recover it if it’s theirs, but also to avoid creating the momentary false hope that comes from getting an email from your company.

    3. Elizabeth H.*

      I’ve lost a couple earrings before and it is so sad. I think it would be awesome if you would contact them to ask about it. (Even if it doesn’t seem expensive, all of my jewelry, items, etc have sentimental value to me) If I were in the situation as a job applicant I would be so grateful if they had found an earring I lost.

    4. Epsilon Delta*

      Personally I would find it pretty odd to get an email about a lost earring, especially after I had been rejected for the job. And doubly so if it looked like just a plain old earring and not something unique/valuable (like if you drop a dime on the sidewalk and someone chases you down to give it back to you). However, others have pointed out that they would appreciate it, especially if it was a lost earring with sentimental value, so it might be worth the weirdness.

  32. Pup Seal*

    I had my interview this Monday, and it was such a disappointment!

    Before my interview I looked up the company reviews on Glassdoor, and man, it was not looking good. My interview confirmed all the negatives. There were so many red flags:

    -Pay would be LESS than what I’m making now (and I’m already underpaid at my current job)
    -Employees are not allowed drinks at their desk. This includes tea, coffee, and water (the day before my interview someone told me she knows someone who got fired on his third day for having a mug on his desk)
    -Employees can’t personalize their desk. No photos, decorations, or anything
    -Tension was high when I was there. I felt so uncomfortable when I walked by all the cubicals. You can tell the employees weren’t happy
    -Women are not allowed to wear pants! I currently work at a place that allows jeans, and I understand many places dress business professional, but the hiring manager said that women can’t wear dress pants. They can only wear dresses and skirts with panty hoses. I ask about leggings since I don’t own panty hoses, and she said those aren’t allowed either.
    -Glassdoor reviews also mentioned a lot of sexism attitudes toward women in general

    Well, back to job searching.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Yikes, that sounds like a terrible place to work for so many reasons. Good luck with your job search.

    2. DevAssist*

      Sounds like you dodged a major bullet there!

      I live in leggings. No way would I be ok in that kind of environment.

    3. Karo*

      Are you in the U.S.? And if so – Can Alison/a lawyer tell us if the skirts thing is legal? They’re clearly singling out a protected class and making rules only about them.

      1. Arielle*

        Yeah, I was wondering that as well. If men are allowed to wear pants and women aren’t, that seems like a pretty clear situation where the rules are different for different groups of people based on gender.

      4. Natalie*

        Sex differences in dress codes are really tricky and generally get ironed out in the court system rather than clear guidance by the EEOC. However, I did find a few articles that indicated they are considered acceptable if they don’t put significant additional burden on employees of one gender. Requiring women to wear skirts may very well be okay, law-wise.

      5. Elizabeth West*

        If the company is affiliated with or owned by a religious organization, I think they can do that. There’s a large one headquartered here and a former classmate of mine is a member of the church and worked for them. She told me no pants allowed. I’ve mentioned it before–it’s the one where their bible college employment page says employees cannot drink, curse, fornicate, dance, or be homosexual.

    5. Bantha Pudu*

      Are you in the Midwest? If so, I have an inkling of what company you’re referencing. People I’ve known who have worked there definitely don’t regard it as a place for long-term employment.

        1. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

          Oh, if this is in the Chicago area, I need more clues, so I know never to apply there. : )

          1. Pup Seal*

            Not Chicago area. ;)

            This company has many locations, but headquarters (where the job I applied for is located) is in a city near the border of two Midwest states.

    6. zora*

      No pants!? In 2017???!! Woooowww.

      I worked in a private dining club (like a country club, but in a high rise) in the 90s, and women were not allowed to wear pants, skirts and dresses only. But tights or pantyhose were acceptable. And it was more like a restaurant uniform so it made a little more sense.

      But I’ve heard that even they dropped that ridiculously sexist dress code about 10 years ago!! Yeeessh, you definitely dodged a bullet, eff that.

    7. Snazzy Hat*

      I wouldn’t have wanted to work there either for all of those reasons.

      -Pay would be LESS than what I’m making now Equal, maybe. Less, only if by a dollar per hour.
      -Employees are not allowed drinks at their desk. I didn’t balk at this when I worked retail, because I could walk to the water fountain between customers. If I have a desk, you’re damn right there’s gonna be a beverage on it.
      -Employees can’t personalize their desk. Not even with a stern-looking photo of the boss in a frame with the company’s name on it?
      -Tension was high when I was there. I probably wouldn’t have been able to stay through the entire interview if I had the same vibe you got.
      -Women are not allowed to wear pants! And that’s when I would have gotten up and thanked them for their time.
      -Glassdoor reviews also mentioned a lot of sexism attitudes toward women in general Not applicable because I’ve already left the interview. Holy crow.

    8. Epsilon Delta*

      Woah. I worked for a retail store run by fundamentalist Christians who tried periodically to convert employees to their religion (yes very illegal), and even they allowed women to wear pants.

      1. Zis*

        How can proselytizing be illegal? Unless they were holding your job over you as a threat, it should be protected speech.

        1. Natalie*

          It’s not that proselytizing is illegal generally, but in the workplace it can create a hostile work environment (in the official sense) which would be illegal.

    10. Natalie*

      Tension was high when I was there. I felt so uncomfortable when I walked by all the cubicals. You can tell the employees weren’t happy

      My stars, how on earth could that be? It sounds like such a great place!

    11. Audiophile*

      I wouldn’t cut it there. I’ve worn pants, bordering on jeans, every day at my new job. I’m working on acquiring some skirts and dresses to throw into the mix. I’ve also been wearing sneakers the entire time as well, because I sprained my ankle and wearing my boots makes me hobble.

  33. Last but not least*

    Happy Friday everyone!! Anyone out there in the process of changing careers? I’m close to wrapping up a master’s degree while working full time and the prospect of changing careers and all that entails (a definite pay cut, an entirely new skillset) are a little overwhelming. I’m hoping some of you out there might have a few stories of encouragement or wisdom to share?

    1. Dizzy Steinway*

      Hang in there! I did this – went back to studying, took a pay cut, juggled some stepping stone work with part-time study and volunteering – and ended up with a job I really love…

      …but it’s not the kind of job I thought I was going to get!

      Funnily enough I was tidying out my spare room yesterday and I found a notebook with ‘shiny new career plan’ written on page 1. I followed that plan for a bit then veered off wildly. Never expected to end up where I am but it’s been so worth it!

      1. Last but not least*

        I recently had a serendipitous conversation with an acquaintenance who manages a department I would love to work for and they were very interested (or showed interest anyway :) in the fact that I was a) graduating this summer and b) would love to work there. So, I’m starting to configure how I might be able to make something like that work because I think if I don’t take the opportunity because of something like a paycut, I’ll kick myself later.

        1. Dizzy Steinway*

          That does sound promising!

          I’d say the big thing is not to put all your hopes on getting The Job straight away. You might need a few stepping stones to get there and that’s okay. Good luck!

    2. periwinkle*

      I completed my master’s in 2012, took some contract jobs for experience, networked, and then landed an awesome permanent position in the new field within a year. I was 47 when I earned the M.S. so youthful energy wasn’t a factor. It was scary but so worth it.

      Network, network, network. Join the relevant professional association, join the local chapter if there is one, get involved, and get yourself out there. If a shy introvert like me can grit my teeth and make connections, anyone can!

  34. PersonalSpaceInvader*

    I have been working for a small non profit for just a smidge over a year. I want to take a day off at the end of April to go to a really awesome local conference, but I feel awkward telling people about the conference or why I am going. You see, it is a local autism conference, and I have autism. I have not disclosed to anyone at work as I do not need any accommodations and my job is pretty solitary most of the time. I am proud of who I am but people have all kinds of ideas about autism, and most of them are wrong. I don’t want others thinking that I’m less capable or whatever other crappy stereotypes and biases they have. I would like to think my colleagues can be cool, but I heard too many horror stories about disclosure, even in progressive spaces, to not feel really anxious. I really like my job and want to stay here for a lot longer, so the last thing I want is for things to get weird. However, it’s going to come out eventually as I will be doing activism and self advocacy work, so I really should just rip off the bandaid. Does anyone have positive disclosure stories or suggestions on how to navigate disclosure?

    3. fposte*

      I think this is two questions. You can absolutely take a day off without stating that you’re going to an autism-focused conference; it doesn’t need to push you into disclosure. But it sounds like you think you might want to disclose at some point and are thinking this might be a good opportunity. And if you do want to disclose, I agree; I think it’s really easy to say “Yeah, I’m taking Friday off to go to Autism ’17; I’m pretty active in our community” and that saves you bringing it up as a Special Conversation. I think most people won’t give much response at all to that, which to me is the ideal.

      But it’s also not now or never–you can feel free not to use this occasion knowing that another is likely to present itself. Since you’re not looking for accommodation, I think the drop into conversation is fine whenever it comes up–and you also don’t need to make a point of ensuring everybody is informed, so it’s fine if you only dropped it into conversation with a manager and somebody else at the coffeemaker.

    4. Not Australian*

      Could you start by telling them that it’s an area you’re particularly interested in and that you’d like to do some advocacy work eventually? Their reaction to that would surely give you some pointers about how to navigate the rest of your disclosure, and when it would be appropriate to mention it. In other words, this may be a good case for taking the Band-Aid off slowly and carefully…

    5. paul*

      put in PTO request, no reason given. Lord knows most reasonable places don’t care why you’re off most of the time (exceptions being blackout dates or a day when there’s already people out of the office).

    6. jordanjay29*

      You’ve been there for a year, they know you and what you’re capable of. Unless you’ve met some employee that gives you the wrong feeling about it, I’d rip off the bandaid. Maybe to your manager first to test the waters, or a coworker that you trust well, since they can help you field the unveiling.

      Hard of Hearing here. I used to hide this as well, but when I made a big fuss about it at one place, no one really batted an eye. I don’t need hearing aids or much accommodations, mostly just people looking at me when they talk and using appropriate volume. Them knowing I’m HH just saves the glares and misunderstandings of me asking them to repeat themselves time after time.

      Now I’m usually just upfront with people, unless someone rubs me wrong. Sometimes I’ll forget to say something and people will just adjust after the first few “what?”s, and sometimes they’ll look at me like I’m from Mars. I know to be a little cautious around the latter type, but I’m not shy about my hearing loss. Some people need reminding, and many people overcompensate their volume, but on average I get a good experience.

    7. Kj*

      I am not on the spectrum, although t I am VERY dyslexic/dysgraphic. I am big into de-stigmatizing LDs (and mental health stuff in general), so I usually work the fact that I have LDs into a conversation. Maybe I’m writing something and I mention my handwriting might be hard to read because I’m dysgraphic or I ask to not be the one writing figure on the board at a meeting because I will transpose #s. People are pretty understanding and kind- they usually either ask me what that is or, if they know, they tell me about someone else they know who’s dyslexic or dysgraphic and life goes on.

      My advice: Mention it casually, as in “I’m going to a conference in April; I’m really excited about _____ talk because it addresses what it is like to have ASD in the workplace/in a hobby you do/in relationships and that is something I deal with.” Then be prepared to explain about how your ASD looks. “For me, my ASD means I have trouble with ________, ___________ and _________, but it doesn’t affect _____________. Most people are going to have maybe a question or two, then be fine with it.

      1. Kj*

        Adding that I love that you, a person with ASD, are doing advocacy work for ASD; I work with kids with ASD and so much of the ‘advocacy’ for ASD is done by NT parents, which can be….problematic and can lead to goals that may not be the goals that people with ASD want for themselves.

  35. Tactful Writer*

    I work for a marketing company and we have regional websites (this isn’t one, but think neworleans.com) where we write about the local area and try to drive tourism. We have thousands of clients that we promote on our sites based on how much they pay us. So certain restaurants will be promoted over others, for example.

    However, we always write about restaurant openings and closings, regardless of if they’re clients or not (we just can’t link to them/give them priority). Sometimes I reach out to these businesses to ask if they’d be willing to provide a photo for the piece.

    Sometimes the restaurant or business will then say, “I’d love to do an interview with you.” I’m not sure how to tactfully explain that A) We don’t do interviews very often because we’ve found we won’t get the revenue from the piece to make it worth our time and B) I can’t promote them as much as I may like to because of client priorities.

    How can I tactfully decline the interviews, and also maybe drive them to our sales team to see if they’d consider advertising with us? I’m afraid it will come across as, “I’m writing about you but have no interest in actually talking to you. I can only do the bare minimum for you and this article unless you spend money with us.”

    1. SophieChotek*

      Could you must put something in your email when you reach out to them like “Due to time constraints, I cannot do any interview, but we would still like to mention your restaurant on our site and would appreciate if you could send us a photo that we can use”? I mean, they might still ask, but that might nip some in the bud? I mean, it’s still free advertising either way. Or just say “for a longer feature, that is something that would be a paid promotion (or however you put it)”…

    2. Dizzy Steinway*

      If they’re paying for the interviews then you should really consider that advertising and declare it on the webpage. Editorial coverage shouldn’t be paid for. I don’t know the legalities over there but I’d say this is widely frowned upon if you aren’t making it clear that they’re advertorials. Sorry, I know that’s not quite what you asked.

      1. Tactful Writer*

        That’s okay, it’s very hard to explain what we do. Our clients don’t just pay for articles, they moreso pay for social media coverage, ads on our sites, etc. On occasion there will be a “package” that includes an editorial.

        It’s just that, if they’re paying for advertising or otherwise working with us, we’re much more likely to “give them some love” as my boss says with what we’re writing/blogging about.

      2. The Cosmic Avenger*

        I think if the website is clear that it is promoting the restaurant industry in Westeros, it’s pretty obvious that you’re not necessarily getting the level of objectivity you would get from a food critic or independent food blogger, and the content will be promotional more than critical. Besides, that doesn’t mean it’s not useful, accurate information.

    3. Celeste*

      “I’m sorry to say that our business model doesn’t allow me to do interviews for the newsletter portion that I write. If you’re open to it, though, I’ll gladly direct you to our Sales team to discuss becoming our client.”

      You have to say no, but this way it just clarifies for them how things work there.

  36. Isben Takes Tea*

    Alison has hosted several discussions on the best time to let someone go, but what do managers think is the best time to resign? Which day of the week? In the morning? At the end of the day? During a regularly scheduled one-on-one?

    1. fposte*

      Are you in a workplace where you’ll be walked out the door immediately? Then the end of the day. If you’re not, whenever you’ve made time to tell your manager is fine; resignations aren’t generally that big a deal for employers.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I think a resignation is different, because you’re generally giving at least two weeks’ notice. For a firing, you’re not generally (there are exceptions, obviously) giving someone two weeks to get out.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      For what it’s worth, I’ve never thought about the time of day or day of week when letting my employer know I’m leaving.

    4. CAA*

      Any time when I am in the office and not on a conference call is fine. No calendar appointment necessary. I travel for work and I also have remote employees, so if you have to do it as a phone call I understand. I’d really like to get it in a conversation rather than an email though so we can have a quick chat. I promise I’m not going to try to coerce you to stay, or give you a hard time, or make you answer anything you don’t want to answer. (Though there are some people whose feelings get terribly hurt if you don’t try to coerce them to stay. Sometimes it’s hard for a manager to know.)

      I will say that Monday mornings are the most common times for people to resign. Most want to leave on the Friday two weeks hence.

  37. MeridaAnn (Holiday Party Question)*

    I know it’s a bit early to be talking about winter holiday parties, but my question is about how we pay for our party, so I’m trying to address it well in advance.

    First off, my department is under the federal government, so there is absolutely no “company money” available for the holiday party. The current system is that all the supervisors pay for entry/raffle tickets for their direct reports and themselves. My concern with this is that there is a significant disparity in how much different supervisors pay (anywhere from $30-$125) based on their number of direct reports with no regards to their own salaries (which aren’t directly related to the number of direct reports they have).

    For example, Horace is the head of the Teapot Spouts division – under him are Minerva (Spout Designer) and Pomona (supervisor of the Spout Production Shop). Minerva doesn’t supervise anyone, but Pomona supervises 15 employees in the Production Shop. Under the current system, Pomona paid for all 15 of her employees and her own supervisor ticket, but Horace only paid for himself and Minerva, despite being in a higher and better paid position than Pomona. (Our department chief, Albus, also is technically only responsible for his own ticket, since all of his direct reports are supervisors, but unlike Horace, he gives a generous donation each year to supplement the holiday party cost.)

    I’m responsible for collecting the money for the party, and I *haaaaate* it, especially because I don’t feel like what we’re asking from each supervisor is fair. The rest of the planning, I don’t mind as much, but that part really bothers me. A few of the supervisors I’ve had to hound a bit the last two years to get their money in the days before the party (well past the two-weeks-out deadline), which is incredibly uncomfortable for me even ignoring the price differences.

    But I also don’t know if I have the standing to suggest any sort of a change, since I’m not a supervisor myself. One person on the party committee – Sybill – is a Supervisor, so I might be able to send suggestions through her, but even then it seems complicated. I imagine Rubeus, who’s paying $125 would be grateful for a more even distribution, but Horace would definitely be resistant – it’s hard enough getting him to pay the $30 for his two tickets as is.

    Am I off base in being uncomfortable? I suppose this could be seen as each supervisor’s gift to their employees, so maybe it’s not that different from if they were each buying a little trinket for everyone under them, but it still feels weird. Should I try to suggest a change in how the supervisors pay? Or should I just keep quiet and stick with the “traditional” way we do the tickets? I haven’t heard of any of the supervisors complaining about the current method, but I think with the office politics, it would be hard for them to do so, so there might be better luck if change is suggested from someone who doesn’t pay in.

    Then again, do I just need to not think about it so much, or maybe say I’m not comfortable being the one collecting money at all and ask that one of the supervisors take on that role? As head of the department, Albus can’t ask for money from those under him, but I *think* Sybill or another supervisor would be able to, since even though she’s at a higher pay than some of the other supervisors, none of them report to her in any way (but I’d have to double check the rules on that). Would it be reasonable for me to ask not to be responsible for collecting the money any more, or could that somehow reflect badly on me?

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      It sounds to me like a lot of people are unhappy with it, so I think you might need to dump the whole party, if not the model you’re using. I’d suggest that you have pay bands, where for example everyone making <$40K pay a flat $10, $40-60K they pay 0.1% ($40-60), $60-80K is 0.15%, etc. This would still allow people to pay based on salary, which isn't always fair but is definitely a fairer way to go about this than your current model. But I would first suggest asking who wants to pay for the party with this model, and see how many people vote yes. And set a date, a week or a few weeks in advance, maybe, after which point the tickets are no longer sold, period. If you don't pay by then, you don't get a ticket. If you do that under your current model you have a supervisor who can ruin the party for their direct reports, but if you take that factor out, you don't have to be responsible for chasing down anyone or collecting money from them, they either come to you or they don't.

      1. Emilia Bedelia*

        Yeah, if you’re in government, why not base it on the convenient salary/seniority bands that you are all in already?

      2. Merida Ann*

        There are about 150 people that come every year, and the party is well liked. It’s during lunch break and on-campus, and I’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback from everyone. And, like I said, I haven’t had any actual complaints about the current pay structure – it just makes me uncomfortable to ask for it because I think it’s unfair. I agree going by pay grade seems the most fair, I’m just not sure if it’s my place to suggest a change…

  38. Mustache Cat*

    Has anyone noticed that Idealist is terrible now? When on earth did this switch happen? And where does everyone go now to look for nonprofit jobs?

    (Not job searching, but this is still something I should know)

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      What changed? The only thing I noticed was when I logged in to post a job this week, their set-up for entering your password got much easier (and the site is faster!).

      1. Mustache Cat*

        The site is a lot faster, but they got rid of so much functionality! I can’t effectively filter or search for anything (if I’m wrong about this, someone PLEASE correct me). The old site had a few too many filters, I agree, but the search function just doesn’t work anymore. I work in public health, but the search term “health” brings back anything that contains the phrase “health benefits”. The search term “public health” brings back anything that contains “health benefits” AND anything that contains something like “public school” or “public-private partnership”. It’s extremely frustrating!

      2. namelesscommentater*

        I’ve struggled with the new layout and their location finding services. They used to have amazing geographic recognition for regions (‘San Francisco Bay Area’ ‘Los Angeles Metropolitan Area’) and now seem to only be able to function with google maps recognized places (‘San Francisco, CA’ ‘Redwood City, CA’ and not able to group the two together).

        I would love to hear any work-arounds people have found other than entering each town in your region into different searches!

    2. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I think it must be somewhat recently as I was there about a month ago and when I went on yesterday, I was so confused as the first few listings were not non-profit jobs. I’m not sure if there is anywhere else as that is listing just non-profit jobs as where I’ve always looked!

    3. RR*

      I think this just happened this week. I was on their site last weekend, and it was fine. Now, if you want to use it to look for jobs, not sure how it would work. Supposedly one clicks on the heading one is interested in (ie “jobs”) but if you do, nothing comes up. Maybe it’s just a temporary glitch related to the new site, but agree, right now it does not look promising.

    4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      They are in the process of upgrading the site and are experiencing bugs as they roll out new functionality. All of the search functions will be back; they weren’t planned losses.

      (This is per the ED, who is an acquaintance and Facebook friend.)

      2. Mimmy*

        Thanks for that update – I did not realize the site underwent a major redesign until now. I liked having all of those search options, so I’m glad they will be back.

    5. Gadfly*

      I just want to say thank you for mentioning them. I’m just about to start job hunting in a new area and with a new degree and with the direction I think I want to go there are some openings that look good (if not the best paid). And I found a volunteer opportunity I may have to follow up on.

  39. PintSizedAdmin*

    I caught an awful cold over the weekend that’s left me with a cough and a creaky-to-non-existent voice today. I feel fine otherwise and my doctor cleared me to go back to work, but a good bulk of my duties is talking to clients over the phone…. so it hasn’t been super fun explaining that no, they are not talking to a crotchety old witch when I pick up the phone! Ugh. Lots of tea and vocal rest for me over the weekend, I guess.

    1. Annie Mouse*

      I answered my phone the other day to one of my senior managers and got ‘oh I didn’t recognise your voice, you sounded squeaky’!! I was recovering from a cold at the time.

  40. Robin B*

    Resume Confusion– A recruiter submitted my resume to Company X, but was told they had already been sent my resume. So recruiter now refuses to work with me about Company X, since I presume she wouldn’t get paid now.

    Can I call X’s HR department to see if my resume is still under consideration? (To make sure recruiter didn’t cause them to discard it?)

    Or is that a bad idea, since they did say they already had my resume?

    1. CAA*

      Did you send them your resume? Or do you have it posted online somewhere like Indeed? If not, and you don’t know how they could possibly already have it, then I would say you can email Company X to explain the situation and ask about it. If you already know how they got your resume, then there’s no need to contact them.

  41. Kimberly R*

    I have a coworker from another department who tries to get me in trouble (it isn’t paranoia-other people have noticed and commented.) She attempted to do so again last night in front of one of the big bosses and got reprimanded for it. She said that I shouldn’t have done something to a contract employee and after the fact, was told in no uncertain term’s that she should NEVER do that and that I had done as I should and had followed the policies that are set in place. Its immature of me but I am quite happy that someone in power finally heard it themselves and took care of it in the situation!

    2. OhBehave*

      Yay for the big boss. Just reading some of these comments tells me wimpy bosses abound.

      And is this coworker still in jr. high? How immature! Glad she was caught and reprimanded.

  42. Effie*

    I’m having such a bad day, going to vent for a sec.

    My coworkers that are a higher role than me keep leaving more and more stuff for me to do on Fridays when I’m in and they’re not. There’s more stuff than usual today because we were beta-testing a new system to make teapots, so even though in the long run it may be more efficient this week it wasn’t. Plus, I was one of two people who was comfortable with the system so I kept getting pulled away from my work to help other people figure out what to do next. And my thanks is extra work on Friday.

    I need to leave the office for a standing appointment in ten minutes and won’t be back for an hour and a half at least, and I expect there to be a pile more work when I return, especially since another coworker who helps cover on Friday just told me that he has so much stuff of his own he can only do part (which is fine, he always does a ton). It’s just…I have a ton of stuff too. We need a better system for this. Or maybe I’m just grouchy because of the rain.

    Thanks for letting me vent.

    2. BadPlanning*

      Are there some things that you can just let fail? Or on Monday, “give back” the coworkers’ tasks. “Sorry, I had several items that were higher priority and was unable to do your extra tasks.”

      1. Sadsack*

        This. What else can you do? Plus, maybe start asking for deadlines when you are given tasks do you can plan better. I assume that not everything must be done by end if the same day.

    3. Effie*

      Thanks everyone! I can’t take Friday off too because I have a second job that requires me to work some nights so I can’t fit 40 hours in M-Th the way others can.

      Ideally everything does need to get done because otherwise people don’t get their teapots on time (trying to be vague). People are supposed to get their teapots by Thursday so Friday is already late (and processing on Friday can mean that they don’t get it on Monday, so processing Monday would be even later). The actual thing is something substantial that you’d be upset if it was late.

      Usually people are okay with getting it late as long as it’s done by Friday (same week) because usually they submitted it late to us (our deadline for people getting their teapots by Thursday is submission by 5pm on Monday). But even if it’s their fault it’s late we’re not supposed to put it off until next week. Again, better system needed :(

      So glad I’m not alone though!

    4. Elizabeth West*

      I’d go to my boss and say something like, “Elrond, Arwen and Glorfindel keep leaving me these tasks when they’re out of the office on Friday. I’m fine with helping out when I have time, but since Gandalf usually needs them by Monday, Legolas and I often end up with more to do than we actually have time for. How would you like me to prioritize these?”

      Or at the last, “Is there another way we can spread the workload out a little? If they know they’re going to be gone, maybe they could send things to Legolas and me earlier.”

  43. Myrin*

    My interview for that job I really want was yesterday and I feel like it went really well. Keep your fingers crossed, guys!

  44. SQL Coder Cat*

    I wanted to thank everyone who offered me encouragement on the open thread a few weeks back about my nerves about my conference presentations. I used a lot of the advice! I took something to calm my stomach before presenting. When I started my speech I asked how many people were on the technical side of things, and pointed out that this was a technical track presentation. A few people left, but not many. It turns out that my topic is something of a hot issue for many people in my field right now, and everyone in the audience was very interested in what I had to say! I had a room full of alert, engaged people who followed along and asked great questions. I made some fabulous contacts and had a great time. Now I just need to decide on what topics to present next year!

  45. Red*

    I got accepted to college! I’ll be doing a double major in math/stats and economics, as I want to work as an actuary. I’m so excited!!

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Congratulations!!! I have two friends who are actuaries who have loved it and been very successful. On behalf of my partner, who teaches economics, go to class, pay attention, and don’t be afraid to ask questions. :)

    3. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      Congrats! I got a minor in geospatial statistics, so my recommendation is to be prepared for 4-8 weeks of feeling like you’re drinking from a fire hose, and then an abrupt chrysalis where you all of a sudden start thinking like a statistician and understanding what the hell is going on. That will happen no matter how good at math and stats you currently think you are.

      And I’m jelly, because actuaries can basically name their salaries these days.

    4. finman*

      Congrats, but I have a suggestion based on how you would answer this question: What do you want to do as an actuary? If the answer is something along the lines of working for an insurance company, analyzing warranty trends, financial loss forecasting (credit cards, banks, etc) or is it more analyzing data in a more macroeconomic standpoint more in line with government work?

      If the answer is A you may want to look at a business degree (finance, accounting, marketing) instead of economics as understanding what the data means and how to make a useful business decision from that can be very powerful when looking for jobs. If the answer is B you may want to look into taking some political science electives if you have the time.

    5. Snazzy Hat*

      Woo! Math! Congratulations!

      Random side advice: Go to office hours if you don’t understand something even after recitation. I had major anxiety for my first few years of college and believed office hours were for discussing that advanced research project you’re working on, or to show off your knowledge by bouncing ideas back and forth with your professor. I was awesome at math up through high school, but in college (when I had to drop my initial major and switched to math) I just could not understand calculus. I sat quietly confused, rarely asked questions, boggled my eyes over test questions, and racked my brain trying to remember when the professor said we could bring note cards to the test. (Yes, that actually happened; all of my classmates had notes and I believe even calculators, and the only thing I brought was a pencil.) What I should have done was go into the professor’s office during office hours and say, “look, I swear I’m good at math, but I don’t understand any of this and my lack of comprehension is scaring me. what the hell am I doing wrong?”

      In short, professors will be happy that you try to do well and ask them questions, especially during times that they’ve left their schedule open so you can ask them questions. And even the jerkiest and least-approachable professors have colleagues and students who know their stuff, so you can always try asking those folks instead.

    6. Borgette*

      I have a similar degree! It’s pretty awesome! The one thing I would have changed about my coursework would be taking 1-2 more programming classes on top of the required Python 101 course. Best of luck!

      1. Ultraviolet*

        According to a survey in my undergraduate math department, “Take more computer science courses” was the most common piece of advice that alumni would give current students. (That was about ten years ago I think.)

  46. Master Bean Counter*

    First I’d like to offer up my sympathies to anybody who has to deal with Atlanta traffic. May you find a way to work around the mess.
    In a pleasant turn of events we now have an office dog. The CEO has decided his dog did well the other day in the office so she’ll be a regular around here now. She’s a very sweet 10 year old golden retriever.
    In a not so great turn of events I’m watching my control freak of a boss headed for burn out. He’s over working himself since my colleague left. I tried to get up to speed on the colleague’s work before he left. The boss blocked me from doing that. He insisted he could do it. I’ve offered to help numerous times since, all refused. Even actively blocked. So now I’m sitting back watching the show and trying to stay out of the fall out. Any tips?
    Also if you are a high level financial person who wants to live in the Southwest I’d love to see your resume.

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      No tips but I’m am super jealous you have an office dog, I would love that!!! A golden sometimes comes here to visit and I get to greet her in my lobby entryway, and it is a nice stress reliever.

    2. KR*

      My tip is to pet the dog. I’m also jealous that you have an office dog. My new job *which I haven’t started yet GRR* is just me and 2 technicians in an office that isn’t public facing or open to the public at all. No one else will work there except for occasional visits from my boss (who’s a dog person) or other people. I’m hoping after my probationary period I can work in a low key request to bring my old man (dog) to work with me.

    3. Construction Safety*

      Thx on the traffic. It’s gonna be FUBAR for a long time. The north-bound span has to come down, no word yet on the sections on either side of the damaged ones. I could see rebar sticking out of the columns in one of the pics last night. Glad no one was hurt/killed.

  47. Cece*

    Academic industry question:

    There’s a project across two universities that’s looking for two postdocs, and each university is advertising for its own postdoc. Is it a faux pas to apply for both?

    They’re very similar positions, and my skills/experience would fit both. If the project is on chocolate teapots, say, one is for research on dark chocolate teapots (my specialism), and the other is on milk chocolate teapots (so close to what I do that I’d have no hesitation applying in other circumstances). The cover letters will be very, very similar since I’ve been working on chocolate teapots for the last few years.

    1. SophieChotek*

      I personally would say no it’s not. Each university presumably has its own budget, review committee, etc. That was my initial thought. However, when I look at your question again it looks like you are saying two universities are working on a joint project, but are each hiring their own postdoc to work on it. In that case, they might have a joint review committee, etc. — so maybe you could get in touch with the coordinator and ask?

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        I read it as, the dark chocolate initiative is hiring two postdocs to work on one project sponsored by two universities, and that each university also has openings for postdocs on other projects unrelated to the collaborative one.

        1. fposte*

          I read it as Whassamatta U and Greendale are partners on the chocolate initiative, with Whassamatta handling the dark end and Greendale handling the milk, and each is going to be hiring a postdoc to work on it.

          If so, feel free to apply for both.

          1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

            Yeah, either way, apply to both – it’s not weird, as long as you make it clear that you’re not just cranking out applications to any vaguely related postdoc that might hire you.

    2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      No, it’s not. It’s generally understood that potential postdocs are basically applying for almost everything that could potentially fit with their PhD research. Your applying for both would be completely normal and even expected.

      I would, however, write two different cover letters. If one PI reads both, you want both to come off as unique and thoughtful about each particular project and your role in it, not as if you’re cranking out variations on the same core letter. The milk chocolate teapot project letter, in particular, should be really focused on bridging between that and your specialty, and making the case that you’re committed to and eager for the shift in focus and that it fits into your overall research goals.

      1. Cece*

        Thanks! I hope the desperation of my career stage will excuse applying to both, if the PIs compare notes when shortlisting.

        The person spec for the milk and dark posts only differs on three points, and quite a lot of the core work experience transfers across. Your points about career goals are helpful, though. I’ll think about what I’d want the next job to be after this project ends (5-year plan and all that), see if that inspires two dazzling and unique letters!

        1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

          You’re on the right track! The objective is to make the point that “this is work I really want to do and I’m applying because I’m passionate about the topic and want to broaden my research experience,” not “This is the 37th postdoc I’ve applied for, please give me a job because it’s sort of in my field and I can do it.”

  48. Margaret*

    I’ve started a pretty strict diet and it requires a lot of weighing of food to make sure I get an accurate calorie count. Because of how much time it takes to prep food and the fact that I don’t want to eat the same thing all the time, I’ve started bringing in different components and stashing them in the shared fridge. When I have to weigh things out, I do it in my cubicle with my “door” closed (I have some hanging beads I draw across the threshold when I am taking lunch, calls, etc.). However, some people have been giving me weird looks, but no one’s directly confronted me about this. Is this a huge faux-pas?

      1. Margaret*

        Besides the standard selections of ketchup, mustard, pickles, etc that seem to populate any shared fridge, it’s mostly empty (freezer space is at a much higher premium). However, I try not to take up more than 1/3 of a shelf, which is about what each person gets if you divided it up evenly.

      1. Margaret*

        I’ve done that before. This was supposed to bring a little more flexibility: if I want it spicier, need some sweetness, want more veggies/protein/fat/carbs, etc.

        But if people start to think I have an eating disorder, I might have to go back to that.

        1. paul*

          as far as spices; I’ve *never* calorie counted there. Chili powder, cayenne, fresh ground red pepper, etc are all so low calorie it doesn’t matter. some spice *mixes* it can if they’ve put in sugar since that’s calorie dense, but stand alone spices…you’d have to eat a whole container to matter.

    3. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I wouldn’t call it a huge faux pas, but it’s enough outside the norm that it could raise some eyebrows. Why not do the weighing at home and bring lunch already packed?

      1. Margaret*

        From above:
        I’ve done that before. This was supposed to bring a little more flexibility: if I want it spicier, need some sweetness, want more veggies/protein/fat/carbs, etc.
        But if people start to think I have an eating disorder, I might have to go back to that.

        1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

          Gotcha. Could you have a little kit with some condiments, spices, and toppings and so on, so you can at least adjust flavors – even if you need to decide your basic ingredients and components in the morning? I make grain bowls with leftovers in much this way, and then I have a little collection of sauces and chutneys and salsas that I can doctor it up with as I please.

    4. fposte*

      Are you sure people are giving weird looks because of your food and that you’re not just feeling somewhat self-conscious? (And when are you seeing these weird looks?) How do other people in your workplace lunch at their desks?

      If nobody closes a curtain, it might seem a little secretive; one possibility would be just leaving it open and saying blandly “Yup, rules of the diet; it’s amazing what you find out when you do it this way, too.”

      1. jordanjay29*

        Yeah, I’m going to back this one. It feels awkward and uncomfortable the first time, but if you just brush off the looks casually with something self-deprecating, most people will shrug and go back to what they’re doing. Or just bring it up off-hand when someone asks what you’re having for lunch.

    5. Christian Troy*

      I suspect it’s probably because it seems like you’re bringing a lot of stuff into a shared work resource. I think the norm is generally people bring in a lunch, like a lunchbox or a brownbag or whatever and that’s it. Maybe measure everything out for your work lunch and then do something more flexible for dinner and breakfast?

    6. Halls of Montezuma*

      I wouldn’t think it’s a faux-pas, but I’d be really curious. I’ve heard of bakers being very serious about food weights, but a diet with strict food weights would not occur to me… I’d try to resist directly asking (AAM has beaten in that coworkers probably don’t want to talk about eating habits), but curiosity would eventually kill the cat and I’d end up awkwardly asking what you were doing.

    7. paul*

      been there, done that. Got mild ribbing but nothing else. Didn’t notice much in the way of repercussions.

      That said I eventually started just weighing it all out at home and bringing it all in a tupperware container.

    8. Buu*

      You can get lunch boxes with portion control partitions or containes designed for small snacks. Perhaps prepare and divide at home then bring those in? or pack each pot by calorie count then just take different ones adding up the count each day?

  49. Amber Rose*

    Friday Rant: I was out of the office all last week on business, and spent the first three days of this week writing a 119 page report on that business (uggggh). My supervisor has been super passive aggressively angry at me this whole week about it. On Monday she slammed some work on my desk and told me it needed to get done because it was old (I do this task once a month. It was done last month.) On Tuesday she forwarded me an email order than had been sent to me with her copied and said that I needed to make sure it was done that day (yes?). Wednesday on she’s basically been ignoring me and answers my work questions very shortly.

    Because I have a legal and ethical obligation to get my report in by a very brief deadline (I swore an oath, this is a government task), I basically just said yes to her… and then left the work alone and did my report. Except for the order, which I did do because it only took 5 minutes. There’s no point in arguing with her because she just sulks or brushes me off.

    The problem is that my boss (the general manager) refuses to clarify what my position in the hierarchy is. Am I an office worker reporting to this supervisor (or another)? Am I a supervisor, since I run my own department? If I’m both, which takes priority? He’s insistent that running my department is only a part time job, which it is sometimes, until it isn’t. The other part time job is helping my supervisor. But I also have another part time job: helping outside sales. And a fourth part time job: designing marketing materials and running/maintaining the website. Oh, and the fifth: assembling document packages for customers. Oh, and RMAs, I do those too. Oh, and don’t forget accounts receivables (wish I could). That’s what, seven?

    So basically because nobody will clarify my position, I call myself (and feel like) the office dog. Because that’s how I’m treated. Amber does the garbage jobs nobody else wants. Fetch girl, fetch!

    This job would be intolerable if I didn’t like my coworkers so much. They vastly improve my day.

  50. How to find a new career*

    Does anyone have any suggested resources to help someone assess what career might be a good fit for them? I am sick of my desk job. I know what I like, what I’m good at, and what I’m bad at. I’d love to take some sort of quiz or assessment to help me fit the pieces together and figure out a better career path.

    Also, are there any find-a-career resources that allow you to set a floor for income potential? As much as I’d love to be a professional artist or dog walker, I can’t afford to make less than $60K.

    1. Alex*

      If you’re in the US, the Bureau of Labor Statistics is a good place to see what careers are out there, how much they pay, and what type of education or experience is needed. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/
      I also would recommend the book Designing Your Life http://designingyour.life/the-book/ It’s a little “self-help-y”, but it makes you think about the things you enjoy and value and how to get on track to do something new.

      1. Dienna Howard*

        I saw “Designing Your Life” mentioned in an Interview Magazine interview with Michelle Pfeiffer yesterday and put a hold on it at my library. It seems like a popular book and just what the doctor ordered.

  51. Librarian*

    For the librarians on here (I know there are a few):

    What’s the average amount of time you have stayed at a job?

    1. EmilyG*

      Since grad school, I’ve got a five-year stint, a three-year one, and I’ve been in my current job a few years. I guess my average is about three years at the moment but I hope to stay in my current job for a long time, and my previous departures were partly motivated by personal-life stuff. Two of those jobs have had a lot of 20+ year colleagues, and the other one… well, there was a reason it didn’t.

    2. Last but not least*

      I work for a library, though not a librarian. We have staff that have been here 20+ years and others that job hop a bit. In some cases they leave for more money (other public library systems pay more than we do), other times, they leave because they want to work in a different library field (public library to academic or law librarian or museum curator or what have you). I find it depends on whether the librarian is in the role they want. If they are, they will nail that job down and stay as long as they can.

    3. Records Manager/Librarian*

      I was at my last job for 2 years and 8 months, but that was as an archivist. At my current job for 1 year and 11 months. I would stay as long as the job remains interesting and there are new challenges or opportunities.

    4. miki*

      Usually my gigs were around a year (projects/contract work) with BA in LIS (outside the U.S.), then with MLIS current position (US based): it’ll be 5 years this October.
      I find that most librarians stay as long as it is feasible for them to stay. Some move for better positions, some leave because the spouse/partner gets a job out state…

    5. dear liza dear liza*

      I’m an academic librarian. I stayed 3 years at my first job, and am almost 20 years at my current job.

    6. ThatLibraryChick*

      I started as an archivist and worked there for about 2 years. Then I became a library assistant for about 2.5 years before moving into my current position a few months ago as programming librarian. Unless an opening for advancement comes up soon and I am qualified, I’m probably going to be in this position for a while which is fine with me.

    7. Borgette*

      My husband finished his MLS last fall. He’s been working at the same library for ~6 years, and has been in his current role (adult outreach provider) for ~3. He’s low key job hunting for an actual librarian role right now, and will ramp up his search this fall when we get past the window where the library’s tuition assistance program would require us to pay them back if he leaves.

    8. Joa*

      I was in a paraprofessional position for two years, at my first professional library job 7 years (which included a promotion after about 3) and I’ve been at this one for three. I’ve committed to myself to stay here for five years and then assess how I feel about things. I’m the director of a smallish library, so there’s no room for advancement without moving to a larger library, but lots of room to make this job what I want it to be.

  52. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

    I’m at (and have been for awhile) the BEC stage with someone I have to work with. She use to be my supervisor and is still senior to me but I got moved to a new manager (partially because she wasn’t very good) but we still work together. I feel like everything I do, she has to go against and the way she says things make it seem like I’m doing something wrong/not doing my job correctly/am just stupid. I think a lot of this comes from the fact that she doesn’t really have a good connection with anyone in our office/her work isn’t great and shes getting a lot of pressure from above. Every time I have to talk with her, I just want to yell at her which isn’t productive for anyone. I’m trying to be professional but I clearly have a look on my face that says I want to run her over with my car. I’m not sure if there is anything I can do mentally to better deal with her but if anyone has any tips, I would greatly appreciate it!

    On a side note, I posted a few weeks about working with bad anxiety and really appreciate everyones response! It made me feel a little less alone. I’m still struggling but I talked with my doctor so they adjusted my meds which hopefully will help a bit. I’ve also been listening to podcasts when I can as that helps me feel a little less anxious. I got my own office which I think threw me off because ever though I was really excited about it, it was a change from being with someone every day. I really like my current set up as it’s very cozy and I have lots of snacks in case of low blood sugar which some people suggested! I’ve also been making to-do lists every day with just a few items as I find breaking it down helps as it feels less overwhelming. I have bad insomnia so I’ve been working on fixing that as well as I know a lack of sleep makes everything more challanging.

    1. Celeste*

      I’m sorry you have to work with someone so difficult. Sometimes it helps me to consider all the ways in which my life is better than that person’s life–how many good friends I have, how much fun I have with my pursuits, how great my hair looks (you get it!). If nothing else, it will put a smile on your face and take your mind off of vehicular manslaughter (so messy).

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Can you harness some of that excess energy caused by your former boss by writing some poetry or making up little one-liners.

      I was thinking;
      Mary, Mary quite contrary
      How does your own job go?
      [You can take it from here. My husband used to land on the phrase… “and one freakin’ turnip”.]

      Maybe you could time her to see how far into the conversation she can get without saying something contrary. I had a boss I used to do this with. Then when she said something contrary, I’d say to myself as if I was talking to her “Quick, say something contrary. Even if it’s wrong.” It made me laugh to myself.

      If you are pretty sure she is on her way out, really the best you can do is just keep a humorous dialog running in your head to try to pull yourself along. This works better on some days than others.

  53. more anon venting*

    Is there anyway to get out of working on a project with someone without coming off poorly?

    I caught someone plagiarizing last week on something and called them out on it. A few days later, I caught more of it again. (This was newly submitted content, so by this point, they should’ve known I was onto them). One of my manager’s semi-defended this person which made me lose tons of respect for said manager.

    I think this is a huge deal. At this point, I have zero respect for this individual and don’t want to associate myself with anything that they do. I don’t have the time or energy to police this and I cannot put my heart into working on this project anymore.

    Any ideas on getting out of it?

    1. fposte*

      Depends on the specifics. Is this a situation where you can take the question to your manager? “Given that Lucinda has plagiarized twice just in the last week, I’m really uncomfortable with having to team with her on the proposal; since I don’t think I can trust the originality of her work, that means I’m going to have to check it all and then rewrite her portion as necessary. Is there any alternative?”

      I think it’s likely that she should have been fired for this (again, depending on specifics), and maybe that’s in the pipeline. But in the meantime telling your manager both gives you a possible way around the problem and makes clear the damage of keeping such an employee.

      1. more anon venting*

        I mentioned the issues to a different manager the first time around, but at the time they were more related to personality conflicts and the plagiarism issue was minor (relatively) as to why I wasn’t sold on working on this with her. I had honestly thought after I called her out on it the first time, it would be fixed. Next thing I know, she is being really nice and I thought we were all on the same page. I started to edit some of her work and recognized that the writing didn’t sound like her…. Her writing is horrendous (I’m talking fragments that end with things such as “?!”), so even non-plagiarized work has to be rewritten. I even caught fact errors when she should be the Subject Matter Expert. And yes, she should be fired for all of this, but I would be very surprised if that happens. This is just a disaster.

        1. fposte*

          Then I’d go back to a manager (it sounds like you might not have one that’s specifically yours) and make your case.

  54. Mbot1re*

    What is a tactful way to ask what the pay rate for a job you have gotten an interview request for but the job posting did not state a salary range? I work in the admin field and pay varies greatly so I want to be sure it’s not a waste of time for either party but don’t know the best way to pose this question before agreeing to an interview. I would hate to miss a good opportunity!

    1. The Pretty One*

      I would just be honest and say to the hiring contact: what is the typical salary range for this position? I want to make sure we are on the same page regarding compensation.

    2. BenAdminGeek*

      Unfortunately, I’ve found you often need to get through the interview first. Otherwise it seems like you’re “only focused on the money” and it’s held against you.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      I’m not clear — did you apply for this job and you are hearing back, or did they recruit you out of the blue?

      Either way, I think you can say, “Can you tell me what the salary range is for the position so we can figure out whether it makes sense to move forward? I don’t want to waste my time or yours.”

      They will very likely counter by asking you how much you’re looking for. If they called you out of nowhere, you can tell them, “I honestly haven’t given it that much thought because I’m not job hunting, so I’d like to hear your range.” If you applied, though, you’ll probably have to name your range before proceeding.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I hate that for low-level admin stuff — “What are you looking for?” It’s a fricking crap job–just say how much it fricking pays in the fricking ad. Gah.

  55. The Pretty One*

    Two questions, I guess.

    First: how do you know you’re in the right job? I’m in my early forties and I’ve worked for corporations and colleges and social service agencies. The same pattern always emerges, which is: everything is great for about 6 months, then I get bored and start looking. This pattern repeats itself across entry level jobs, management jobs, etc. I am now debating going from a management job to a high level individual contributor (been in current job for 2.5 years), but not sure it is for the right reasons other than the bright and shiny.

    Second: how would you deal with a manager who is really upset with the organization? She didn’t get a promotion she was expecting and now calls me in after every meeting to point out how someone in the meeting has it in for her. I tried to make sympathetic noises, but it feels like she is unraveling right before my eyes. She is also my boss, so I’m afraid to be too honest with any feedback on this behavior.

    2. Dizzy Steinway*

      I think you might be asking the wrong question. Reading your post, I wondered what happens at the six-month mark, how your feelings change compared to at the start, and what payoff you get from starting new jobs that you don’t then get six months down the line? I wonder if focusing on finding the ‘right job’ might result in another repeat of this cycle as you’d again be focusing on the beginning and not the middle? What’s missing for you six months in – is it something that’s there at the start then goes? Or is it a change you’re hoping for that never comes?

      I wonder if it might help to talk to a life coach or a therapist to try to work this out? It’s just it’s not clear if you’ve been in the wrong jobs or if it’s more to do with some aspect of how you feel at work, what you need and how you fulfil those needs?

      If you need a lot of change, would contracting be an option?

      1. fposte*

        Yes, I totally agree–this doesn’t sound like a repeated series of the wrong jobs but somebody who just has itchy feet. So do you not want itchy feet, The Pretty One, or would a career path that brings you a lot of novelty solve the problem?

        On the second one, I don’t think it’s something you can change, and that sympathetic noises are the right approach until the boss figures it out.

      2. The Pretty One*

        I think you are on to something. After 6 months, I usually know the quirks and “dirty laundry” of the place to some extent. The shine has worn off and I settle into a routine, which I don’t really enjoy.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’d be interested in answering your first question as a standalone post! If you’re up for that, want to email to me and ideally flesh it out with more details?

      2. Ordinary Worker*

        Can’t wait for this standalone post! I am similar in that I’ve moved jobs or departments on avg. about every 2 years….. I just get bored with doing the same thing.

        I’m in this same spot now although I’m trying to ignore it and NOT look for a different spot.

      3. Mimmy*

        I too am looking forward to this post.

        I just finished my second week in a new job and, as has happened in past jobs, am already getting itchy feet (great analogy, fposte!). It’s considered a part-time, per-diem position though I do have a regular schedule. I want to be sure that it’s just a matter of me being patient and that more interesting things will come in time, or if I’m heading down the wrong path.

    4. Chaordic One*

      In my last few jobs the pattern I’ve noticed is that I will seem to be doing fine in my job, and then there will be some big change (usually a new supervisor) and the job will turn into poo-poo and I have to start a job search.

      I would certainly be sympathetic to your supervisor. If she tells you that someone in the meeting has it in for her, you might gently disagree and say something like: “I can’t believe that’s true. There’s probably a good reason why “someone” has said or done what they did.” You say things like, “That’s awful.” and “That’s very disappointing.” You might also bluntly suggest something like: “Well, maybe you need to start looking for another job, since they don’t seem to appreciate you here.”

      1. Troutwaxer*

        I wonder whether the supervisor’s problem (from the organization’s standpoint) is that she believes simple disagreements over facts or strategies are really pissing contests, and then she makes drama, if only in her own head. If she can get past that her career might come unstuck.

  56. Murphy*

    My university has a paid subscription to a particular e-newsletter. It comes out once a month, always with a warning not to share the link outside of your institution, since it is a paid subscription. I’m responsible for distributing it at my institution, which I always do in such a way that it requires a university login.

    A professional organization that I’m a part of was mentioned in last month’s issue, and a member of the organization just sent it out to the entire listserv (the entire newsletter, not just that article), which is definitely a no-no. I don’t know what, if anything, I should do about this. I hate to be the police, but it makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

    1. Manders*

      In my experience, it’s pretty common for people to bend the rules with these things at universities. Academia gates content in a weird way that can exclude people who aren’t in the university system or who just want to pay for one item and not a recurring expense like a newsletter subscription.

      I wouldn’t worry too much about it; it doesn’t sound like there’s anything confidential in the newsletter, and this member just forwarded one of them, not the entire back catalog of them.

    2. Morning Glory*

      Was this one of the people you send the newsletter to, or a completely separate organization and you happened to see it? If it’s the second one, and you are not responsible for it, I would let it go.

      If it’s a subscription issue and not a confidentiality issue, that sounds like a problem the newsletter is asking for, the way they have it set up.

      1. fposte*

        In general, I think publications that operate on that model expect a certain amount of leakage. I wouldn’t worry a ton about this, but I think it would be okay to send a reminder that the newsletter is a paid subscription and that people are on the honor system to keep it in-house.

      2. Murphy*

        No, it was someone at another university who sent it out to a professional organization that we’re both a part of. (If it was someone at my university, I definitely would have said something.)

        Thank you, and everyone else. I’ll let it go.

    3. more anon venting*

      You can send a private message to that person reminding them, but otherwise, I wouldn’t worry about it. Chances are that the organization distributing it has some kind of forward tracking on it, so they would be able to tell and police it as necessary.

  57. Manders*

    Digital marketers, which job boards do you use? I’m looking for jobs just past entry-level. Craigslist is full of internships and entry-level positions, and Indeed’s pickings seem slim. I’m pretty sure more advanced options are out there for people who have some experience in SEO and UX, but I don’t know where to go to find them.

    Also, is it common to be expected to do a skills test before you even speak to an interviewer? I’ve submitted two applications and been asked to take a test for both. I turned one down because they wouldn’t give me a salary range and proceeded with another, but I was peeved about having to take a test (which was actually full of really basic errors!) before anyone would speak with me.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      At one point, I was looking for jobs at digital marketing agencies. I had the best success on Glassdoor and LinkedIn, and, of course, agencies’ own websites. My city has an AMA chapter that holds great events for networking; I went to a local agency for a webinar/meeting and met a lot of cool people.

      I know it’s been brought up 1000 times, but really, networking is soooo important, especially in the digital agency world. Around here, it’s a lot of start-ups, and they often will hire someone with great potential who has skills they foresee needing down the road.

      1. Manders*

        You’re totally right, I should up my networking game. I’ve seen about 10 marketing meetups in my area, I just need to find the time to go. I’m in a startup-heavy city too, and I have a skill set that could be a good fit for a company that needs to build some buzz as it launches a new product.

        Now that I think about my schedule, maybe I should tap the brakes on my job hunt until I’m done with my house hunt. Networking AND rushing out to open houses at the same time is not a great combo.

  58. Freya UK*

    I handed in my resignation this morning – one week of notice to work then I am out of this boring, oppressive, negative office \o/ Free to actually live my life while looking for a new job \o/

      1. Freya UK*

        It certainly does. A bit nerve-wracking going without an income of course, but I got to the point where that risk is far less awful than forcing myself into the endurance test of that office any more. Thank you :D

    3. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Yay!! Good luck with your job search…and try not to skip too gleefully on your way out next week. :-)

  59. Liquid Lunch (not that kind)*

    I got braces about six months ago. For 1-2 weeks after a monthly dentist appointment, what I’m able to eat is seriously restricted. (This may not be typical, but it’s necessary in my particular case, and it’s not going to change for about a year.) I’m in school right now and can get through the occasional student-group dinner because my friends know what’s going on.

    However, I’m interning this summer at a place that has fairly frequent group lunches, free bagels in the breakroom, etc. I don’t want to be TMI Girl, and nobody needs to know what’s going on with my mouth. On the other hand, eating together is an important part of bonding as a group, not to mention networking. Sometimes I won’t even be able to order the vegetable soup (I’ve tried), so peeking at menus beforehand won’t solve the problem completely.

    Does anyone who’s gone through this have tips on how to explain the situation with grace? Is there a professional way to explain that sometimes I can eat actual food and sometimes I can’t, or will I have to establish a green-juice norm and pretend to be extremely healthy?

    1. fposte*

      Well, a definite no to the last, at least :-). I think it’s fine and not TMI to say “I have a dental thing that’s flaring up” and order only a milkshake at lunch. Just say it with a “What can you do?” shrug. “Nah, I’m okay; just no bagels for me for a week or two.”

      It’s possible, especially with interns who may not have much experience, that they’ll want to know more or want to find you food you can eat. It’s up to you how private you choose to be, but I think it wouldn’t be a problem to say “It’s just orthodontia, and once it’s all over next January I can go back to normal. In the meantime, I’m really fine with the milkshake approach.” Generally the more matter of fact you are the more matter of fact other people will be.

      1. Liquid Lunch (not that kind)*

        Thanks, fposte! Mentioning that it’s orthodontia, if they seem *really* curious, would probably head any stranger assumptions off at the pass.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Honestly? I think you’ll be just fine. Most people I know, myself included, have had braces and we remember the drill. Even barring that, everyone I know has had dental work followed by discomfort. My best advice is to keep your sense of humor about it. “LL, just getting soup? How about a sandwich?” “Thanks, but I just had my braces adjusted, I’m a little sore. That salad looks awesome, though.”

      Servers in restaurants deal with unusual requests all the time. They may not be able to puree your soup, but in the case of something like vegetable soup, they might be able to strain it so you just get broth. Just ask. Don’t be afraid to order side dishes like mashed potatoes. I think people will be much more sympathetic than you realize.

      1. Liquid Lunch (not that kind)*

        Thanks! It’s good to know that people will be understanding. I’ll make sure to stay relaxed about it.

    3. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I think you repeat this as necessary: “I had some dental work done recently, so I’m avoiding chewy/hard/crunchy things right now. ” If people press you for details, I think you can just say, “Really, it’s completely fine, but the braces are making my teeth hurt like crazy, so chewing is not a thing. So how was your weekend?”

      As fposte says, be matter of fact, answer plainly, change the subject, and people will get the message that it’s Not a Big Deal.

    4. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I’ve started noticing a decent number of people around my age (late 20s to mid 30s) getting braces recently, so I don’t think it’ll be a big deal – just be matter of fact as fpost said. Sit with people, eat what you can, sip on an ice tea if you can’t order anything off the menu. Don’t get into the details of when you can and can’t eat things, just address the immediate issue if someone asks and then move on.

    5. yarnowl*

      I don’t think it’s TMI to say something like, “I’ve got a dental thing I’m dealing with that makes it hard to eat certain foods.”

      I can’t eat dairy, and my office has a LOT of food-based activities as well, and in the few instances where there was just absolutely nothing I could eat (sitting and watching my coworkers eat pizza and cheesy bread was AWESOME) I still go and just get a drink and then eat on my own time. If people ask, I just say, “I have a dietary restriction, so I’m gonna eat a little bit later,” but honestly most of the time people don’t say anything.

    6. Elizabeth H.*

      Why not just explain it? “Because of my orthodontia work I can’t eat anything chewy or solid for about a week after my braces get tightened.” This is really normal and not TMI *at all*. Most people are familiar with braces and I actually think it would be weirder and more awkward if you tried to conceal it or give other reasons like making up a dietary restriction or special diet or something.
      Is the issue that your group is going to a restaurant and you are embarrassed if you can’t order anything on the menu? I do understand how that can be awkward and you might worry you are making people uncomfortable by going to a restaurant and not ordering anything. But if it is really important to go and one of these outings falls within your post-tightening period, it doesn’t seem weird at all to give the basic explanation and just order a soda or coffee or sparkling water or something.

    7. StopThatGoat*

      I went through something similar the last month after having oral surgery. The few times it came up, I simply said that I was recovering from a medical appointment and on a special diet. Nobody really asked anything else.

    8. Marisol*

      I don’t see having braces as a TMI thing, especially since they are so common. What I personally would do is just say the plain truth: “I can’t eat solid foods for two weeks after my braces are tightened.” People may have follow up questions, so prepare for that, but I can’t imagine this being a big deal. For a more robust script, say for when you want to explain why you are tagging along to a networking lunch but not eating: “I’m coming along for the company. Wish I could eat with you, but I can’t eat solid foods after my braces are tightened.” Then I’d make sure to have a little liquid something and make sure to look like I’m enjoying it–a latte, a protein shake. I would avoid having plain water and looking really sad–have something so you still look convivial. But I don’t see this as problematic. It’s not like you’re discussing hemorrhoids.

      If you’re very slender, you could have people asking you about what you eat, maybe needling you about it (“do you actually eat food?” that sort of thing), but in that case you just tell them the truth in the same way. “Yeah, I eat, just not solid foods after my braces are tightened.” There’s nothing to feel awkward about.

      If for some reason someone presses you for gory details that you don’t want to get into, then you say, “ugh, I’d rather not get into that, it’s a little too graphic for work” or whatever. No big deal.

  60. memoryisram*

    I have a potential opportunity for an internal transfer for a job that would be a really good career move for me. It has just been listed.

    BUT my boyfriend is moving at the end of the summer and we’re still discussing if I should go with him (FWIW, I want to so if he also decides he wants to take this next step, I’m going to go. His thinking process is quite analytical, so this has been a tad drawn out). We should have a decision made in the next few weeks about this, I would suspect.

    The thing is – do I apply and see if I even get an interview offer and then go from there – or do I wait until I know about the move for sure.

    1. BenAdminGeek*

      Apply. If you move, you move. If you don’t, the new job will be great and a career boost.

    2. Amy*

      I think that until the decision to go is made, act like you’re staying. If you do go, you can always bow out and say that your plans have changed. If you end up staying, you don’t want to be mad at yourself for missing out on this opportunity.

  61. Cruciatus*

    One week down, 3 left to go before I transfer to a new department. Last week when I was first accepting and going through all the details it didn’t feel so bad, but now, living it, oh my godddddd why did I allow my transfer to be so far in the future?! It was mostly a nice week as both bosses were away, but my initial hesitation about leaving has completely evaporated. While I knew my coworkers were unhappy in this office (we all have some of the same reasons for this), this week I heard mostly just how miserable everyone is–often extending beyond the actual job, money issues, family issues, etc. Not that I needed constant congratulations or anything, but it’s like my leaving has dredged up all the issues everyone has and, well, it’s making it so that 1) I don’t regret this at all, and 2) I’m excited to (hopefully) not hear people complain again in the near future! It’s like the toxicity is increasing and my leaving is the turning point for that. My one coworker on my level was frustrated he didn’t see the job opening I applied to and was actually mildly frustrated with me for not telling him about it. Dude, they are publicly posted and I have emails sent directly to me (which everyone can d0). Anyway, now I just can’t wait to leave and 3 more weeks of this sounds long and horrifying….

  62. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    Someone tell me the 3rd time is a charm… So a few months ago I posted and I was pretty devastated because I didn’t get a full time role in a company where I’ve been a part-timer for about 4 years now. I’ve applied with the company a couple times, always get interviews, always seem to make it farther in the process than the last time, only to get a rejection. The last one was pretty tough and I had decided not to continue to apply for openings because I really like the part time work that I’m doing and I’m worried that continuing to be rejected will cause me to become disenchanted with the company even though I love working for them.

    Fast forward a few months, and positions come available again. I wasn’t going to apply, but one of my managers reached out to me directly and invited me to apply. I talked it over with my husband and my sister, and they both think I have nothing to lose, so I apply. Because I’ve been through the process before just a few months ago, they fast track me, have me skip several steps in the hiring process, (no phone screen, no skills test, no 2nd interview, just an interview with the the manager for the position and a phone call with the president of the company). That phone call with the president was this week, and I know that I was the first person he’d talked to about the role, so it may be a couple weeks before they finalize. I’ve really been trying not to get my hopes up, but making it to that last stage of a call with the president made it feel real and substantial.

    I don’t know what my question was anymore… I’m just a ball of nerves while I wait now.

    2. Cruciatus*

      At my current place of employment, the 3rd job I applied to (see right above!) is the one I was hired for. The first two didn’t even get me interviews or even a personal rejection despite knowing those involved in those departments. So this last time I also figured “nothing to lose” and got it. Actually, I think I do better when I’m in a more “eff it, let’s just try” mode than when I’m really, really, really hoping for something and trying to perfect my cover letter/resume/interview. I wish you luck! Oh, and after my interview it took weeks to hear back despite the department being about 100 yards away.

  63. Elizabeth H.*

    Does anyone have suggestions for making money on the side? I have a basic 9-5 job but I want to try to make some extra cash to save up for a major road trip. Some ideas I have had are: flipping things on Ebay, tutoring (I could tutor/teach Russian language or general academics), trying to get an evening job at a grocery store. I’m good at writing, editing and Microsoft Office, lots of bookstore/book industry experience, no real food service experience. I also am thinking about just trying to replace my full-time job with several part time or gig jobs. Anyone done something like this?

    1. Morning Glory*

      I think it depends on the amount of flexibility you have in terms of schedule. A lot of people who do eBay or freelance writing and blogging (like some family members) put in a lot of work with low returns because they have restrictions like childcare that require they stay at their house a lot of the time. You would definitely make more money in a grocery store or restaurant than doing that kind of thing if you can commit to regular hours.

      Do you live in a city? I’ve seen postings in my area for law firms who need part-time evening receptionists – that hourly pay would probably be better than most of the options you listed, if you could find a job like that.

      Also, if you get benefits through your full-time job, make sure you factor those in before deciding to switch to part-time or gig jobs.

    2. Tutor McTutor*

      Tutoring is a great way to make some money on the side. If you know people that need a tutor, just negotiate a rate and time and away you go. If you don’t already know people who need a tutor, you might look into signing up with a tutoring company. If you do, here are some things to consider:

      – will you be W-2 or 1099?
      – What subjects will you be required to teach?
      – Will it be in student’s homes or at a center? (tutoring in student’s homes tends to pay better, but you end up putting miles on your car and are usually not compensated for time spent driving)
      – Does the company provide curriculum/resources or do you have to make your own?

    3. Celeste*

      Can you do Russian translation? That seems like another way to use your talent.

      I’ve known some moms who had editing jobs they did from home–usually textbooks. But I’m not in contact with them any more to know how they got those leads. It’s amenable to doing other gigs, as you control your hours you put in.

    4. Marisol*

      I would say, start with what you like the best (you’re already working–no need to be abusive to yourself) and the field in which you have the most contacts. The best business model for something like this is word-of-mouth and small. Make some biz cards and talk to people. Join networking organizations (I can’t remember any names off the top of my head but they are google-able). I would not waste time getting a city business license or coming up with a grand marketing plan. Lots of people who go into business for themselves compare themselves to Coke and Microsoft, thinking then need major “branding” initiatives and similar things when what they really need to do is just talk to people and take one job at a time. Then once you get a client, try to get a referral from them. Steve Chandler is a wonderful life coach who writes books on this topic; also Michael Neill. Both easy to google.

      As to what service you should provide, I don’t know you well enough to advise you there, but consider having a brainstorming call or lunch with some friends and family who know you well. Someone might say, “I always thought you’d be great at xyz.” A book that addresses the brainstorming process is WishCraft by Barbara Sher–also an amazing life coach.

  64. PricklyPear*

    I have some concerns about a new employee in two parts. For reference I’m 29 year old woman. He’s 44 year old man and we share an office. This post is long so sorry in advance.

    He was hired 4 months ago to fill the spot of a very busy IT Support position. This position is more than just Tier 1 HelpDesk so you really need to bring your skills to the table. He interrupts me 10-15 times a day to ask me for help on things he can either research himself or should have the basic knowledge on how to start finding an answer. I’m concerned that he is holding back the department with the amount of hand-holding that he needs from all of us. The first couple of times I have tried to point him in the right direction but when he asks the same questions I get frustrated and become short with my responses. It’s usually stuff like “Is this file located at [server location]?” and I’ll reply “Have you checked that location yet?” and he’ll say no. If I know the file is not there I’ll help him but 99% of the time he’s “following up” with me on things before he puts in the work. He likes to mindlessly chat all day.

    Part of the reason why I feel he is not up to standard or catching on is that he stays on his phone 3-4 hours out of the day. That’s not an exaggeration. He’s failed to meet deadlines because of his inability to stay off Facebook or Instagram. He plays videos and laughs out loud, rolls over to my desk and shoves his phone in my face to show me pictures, and will start a video and lay his phone on my desk with the sound blaring so I can watch it. He doesn’t get the hint when I tell him “Sorry, I’m too busy right now.” and hand his phone back to him.

    Here comes part two: He’s usually looking at young women. He used to work with young girls and young women and he’s usually browsing their photos on social media. He even bragged that he had to delete Snapchat because so many young girls were sending him snaps that he thought it “could look inappropriate”. He also ALWAYS comments on women’s appearances. For example, I have a window beside my desk on 2nd floor and a young woman was standing down in the parking lot. She was wearing a nice dress and heels and had her back to the window reaching into the trunk of her car. Coworker sees her and runs to my window and says, “Mm, who is THAT?” and stares while breathing/grunting heavily. He’s made comments before, usually about people we work with (“Is Jane the cute one?”, “I saw Tina today. Wow, she’s really cute.”, “I just talked to Katie on the phone. I like her voice. Is she cute?”, etc.) but this made me physically repulsed. He has a tendency to look at women up and down while they’re talking and I’ve seen him do it with me. His eyes flutter around and never look women in the eyes.

    Boss came to me a few weeks ago when he missed a deadline and asked what I thought was the holdup. I told him honestly that I think it’s his phone use but that I haven’t said anything about it because it’s not my place. I’m usually one to fix my own issues and I felt like the phone comment was my only shot at bringing it up and anything else is seen as meddling as Boss replied that he agreed I wasn’t his manager and didn’t need to say anything.

    Do I go back to boss about all of this? His work performance, his phone use, and his comments? I don’t know whether I’m so grossed out because I’m a woman and he’s making these comments or because he’s just a creep. He’s also made other lowkey sexist comments but I honestly try to ignore as much as possible. I’m starting to get a stomach ache when I come in to work.

    1. The Pretty One*

      Um. The young girls thing is a big problem. I would mention it to your manager. The forgetfulness I am not so sure about. I forget a lot of things too at this age.

    2. INeedANap*

      I would definitely go to your boss about this. I would also address the comments about the women right in the moment: “Don’t comment on co-workers’ appearance.” “That’s not appropriate for work.”

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Tell your boss all of it. I’d be frustrated as hell if I were the manager and no one told me this was happening, when they were in a position to know and I wasn’t.

      1. Marisol*

        Yes, and remember that the boss specifically asked you for your opinion. So it’s not a question of it not being “your place.” He asked you outright.

    4. BadPlanning*

      Wow, gross. I’ve had the “full body” check before by a stranger and it’s always awful.

    5. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I think you run all this up the flagpole. The fact that a grown-ass 44 year old man needs constant hand-holding and wastes your time, that’s a performance issue. That’s a Big Deal. His boss needs to know.

      The phone use is, pretty plainly, affecting performance, distracting you, and causing deadlines to be missed. That’s also a Big Deal. His boss needs to know about that too. 3-4 hours a day on the phone is so egregious and excessive that I’d be having a talk with him even if he wasn’t missing deadlines.

      And if he’s grossing you out with his comments and references about other women’s looks, and making lots of comments that are overtly sexual, that’s what we call “creating a hostile work environment” and also “sexual harassment.” It doesn’t have to be directed at you to constitute a sexually harassing atmosphere, and if you’ve got any lingering doubts….it’s directed at you too, just not at your face. This is something that I think you can go straight to his boss and HR with, with ample justification.

    6. LCL*

      Go back to your boss. Tell him you are finding it impossible to share an office with new guy and get your work done. Then list everything you have listed here. Now it is on your boss to do something. When boss asked you about one missed deadline, that was an invitation to speak up. You can still speak up.

      Other people will post after me and tell you to go directly to HR with these complaints. They are right, but, I suspect you work in a place that doesn’t deal with employee misconduct very well. If they did you wouldn’t be asking here for advice.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Don’t go directly to HR, but keep that in your hip pocket.

      2. PricklyPear*

        I work in the public sector which is notorious for letting things slide. My boss has proved in the past that there are more important things than “inter-personal” concerns, as he calls it, that are brought to him (not mine – another co-workers issues.)

        1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

          Then I think you need to say something including the magic words “HR,” “abusive work environment,” “sexual harassment,” and maybe even “EEOC” if you need to pull a big lever.

          1. LCL*

            +1. I work in the public sector. Our HR is famous for acting on this sort of complaint swiftly and aggressively. It would be a professional courtesy to tell your boss everything that this guy has done, and that you are going to HR with it.

            The information in your second post is why I changed my mind. I still think boss has some suspicions about the new guy.

    7. Master Bean Counter*

      I admire you for not offering to put this guys phone in a place where only a proctologist could remove it.
      But really this guy can’t take a hint. Go tell your boss everything.

    8. Marisol*

      For the sexist stuff, call him out directly.

      “I’m not comfortable with that.”
      “that’s disrespectful.”
      “I’m not interested in who you think is cute. Please stop using unprofessional language.”
      “I don’t care. I’m here to work, not listen to you ogle women.”

      For the pestering, you might consider literally ignoring him, as though you don’t hear him at all. I have never had the guts to do this, but I have seen executive assistants, who are often bombarded with requests, erect an invisible shield in front of their desk as a way to discourage annoying people, and just…stop acknowledging their presence. It’s not as rude as it sounds, and eventually the pesterer just gives up. And there is plausible deniability–you can always say, “sorry, I was deep in thought because I’m working. I didn’t hear you.”

  65. Landladylurker*

    Anyone got tips for being professional when you’re crushing on someone harder than a 13 year old girl?

    How does one ask a supplier out without being a creepy customer? Especially if you have to interact with them through work on a weekly basis.

    I deal a lot with purchasing supplies and running errands at my work, and at a local building supply store there is someone who I would really like to know better. With how we do purchasing they have to be the one to scan my items through I see them at least once a week. The problem is I’m an awkward person and whenever I see them we’re both on the clock. Neither of us get the chance to talk or anything so I don’t know anything past their first name and they probably just know me as the klutz who occasionally hits themselves in the face with shovel handles. My coworkers have noticed that something is up and even though I am a woman in her mid twenties with a bad crush, I’d prefer not to show that in an all male workplace.

    Is there a way to reach out to test the waters without making a clerk uncomfortable or worse yet, having this reflect back on either of us somehow at work? I don’t even know if they’re single, but it would be nice to not be stumbling over myself whenever I go to that store. (I wasn’t kidding about the shovel handles.) Failing that, any tips on having a poker face? It’s been over a year now and I’m still blushing just thinking about them.

    1. Morning Glory*

      If you don’t know anything about this person apart from their first name, why do you have a crush on them?

      I would not risk damaging a professional relationship because a contact who has shown no romantic interest in me (I am assuming) happens to have a nice face.

      1. Clever Name*

        I’m confused by this question. Have you never thought someone was really really attractive and wanted to get to know them better? That’s why Landladylurker called it a crush rather than “madly in love”.

        1. Landladylurker*

          Thanks Clever Name. Was having trouble trying to respond without sounding immature.

          I have talked to them a few times during transactions and they were very nice and very smooth. They have a terrible sense of humour like me. I know I don’t know too much about them but I at least know their professional persona. I know that might not be worth much, but I at least know them more than I’d know someone I’d met in a bar or wherever.

          That being said, I’m probably never going to make a move. My post was asking if there was a way to test the waters without jeopardizing anything, I was not planning on doing something drastic.

        2. Morning Glory*

          In a professional context, without any flirting or knowing just about anything beyond their name – no. I cannot imagine someone being so physically attractive that I would risk making a work relationship awkward in order to ask them out.

          As landladylurker has explained that they share a sense of humor and have had more conversations than it sounded like at first, I understand it better.

    2. INeedANap*

      I don’t really think there is a professional way to handle this, to be honest, although I sympathize! With the professional entanglement, this is more like trying to date a co-worker than trying to ask out someone as a customer.

      At best, I would suggest leaving your number for them at the end of a transaction and saying something like, “If you want to get coffee sometime, I’d love to hear from you! If not, no worries.” And then never mention it again unless they bring it up. If they never text or call, that’s your answer, and the onus would be on you to act normally and casually when interacting with them in the future and not pushing the issue (not that I think you would, just saying).

      But honestly I probably wouldn’t test the waters at all while you were both in this work situation – it kinda sucks to miss a potential opportunity, but maybe focusing on trying to find someone else would help distract you from them.

    3. Marisol*

      For the uh…seduction, as it were: keep making very casual, very light small talk and see if they are keeping up their end of the conversation. It takes practice to read social cues, but whatever you can do to make sure you are good at that, including reading up on the subject–books, online articles–will help. So pay attention to how you are being received. Do not pay attention to what you want. Focus on them. What they want. What about the conversation interests them. Or, if they are not interested, then pay attention to that and back the hell off! Being pushy is repulsive (as you probably know) but ironically, pulling back when you sense someone’s lack of interest is a way of showing sensitivity, and is appealing. Do not try to flirt or be suggestive in any way. Think platonic, think of making a friendship connection, and in time you will see if this can go somewhere. Leil Loundes is a consultant…image consultant maybe? Communications consultant? Who wrote some great books about social skills. Can’t remember the names but she’s on Amazon. Another good one is…some hypnosis CD’s by Paul McKenna. Can’t remember those names either but again, easy to google. Wait, I think I remembered–it’s called I Can Make You Confident. Really good tapes (and nice to fall asleep to).

      For the poker face, google EFT tapping online and do the exercises. You tap on acupressure points while saying affirmations. It sounds silly but it works. In particular it works for me when I feel socially anxious around someone.

      Try to make sure you have lots of fun things to do in your life, so you won’t fixate on this person and so that they won’t seem more important than they really are. If you’ve got a fun life going on, then when you see them, it will be like, “oh! here’s a nice moment” as opposed to feeling like, “OH THEY’RE MY EVERYTHING” because you’re not socializing and your life is sad.

  66. Anon for this*

    How do you know when you have been at a job too long? It’s over 5 years now, it’s a steady individual-contributor role that I excel at, but it’s pretty much a dead end. I’m worried that I am stagnating, with experience making me lazy but also making me overthink things due to accumulated workarounds that somebody fresh wouldn’t bother with.

    That said, we’re trying to have another child and I don’t want to have timing issues with a potential pregnancy. Also, we need to move out of a not-good school district in the next year or two and my husband is considering a job change too, doesn’t one of us need to stay put to get approved for the mortgage?

    1. Tactful Writer*

      I can’t speak to the mortgage, but I’d definitely say go ahead and look for a new job and don’t worry about the pregnancy impacting it. It may take you longer than you think to get pregnant anyway.

      I got pregnant upon coming into a new job – my conception date was literally less than a week before my first day. I was terrified but everything went smoothly and I even got a raise on my day back. Good companies won’t be concerned about you being out for a maternity leave for a few months if you’re going to stick with them in the long run – and with a five-year stay at your current job on your resume, I’m sure they’ll be optimistic about that.

      1. The Pretty One*

        Re: the pregnancy. YES, but in some cases the organization is not required to give you extended maternity leave if you have not been there for a certain amount of time. I was at a job about 6 months and then gave birth. They were very gracious about it, but from researching the law for medical leaves, they didn’t have to give me the leave that they did. So I would suggest researching leave policies before you make the jump.

        1. Anon for this*

          Re: FMLA, I’m keeping an eye out for internal transfers for that reason. It’s a Fortune 500 company with a major presence in my area.

          1. Tactful Writer*

            Good thinking. Yes I didn’t have FMLA because the company was too small and even if they weren’t I hadn’t been there for a year yet (obviously). I got eight weeks.

            Good luck with the job and the baby-making!

    2. Karo*

      From what I understand about mortgages they like to see consistent steady employment so that they know you can pay your mortgage, but having one job for 5-6 years and another for 1-2 sounds like an indicator of steady employment.

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      As long as you have a steady track record of employment, and good credit, switching jobs really doesn’t affect getting a mortgage. I pre-qualified for a FHA backed loan with an employment letter. I had to be at the new job 30 days to qualify for a traditional mortgage. So go talk to your banker to make sure changing jobs won’t make you too much of a credit risk.
      But personally I’d stay at the current job if the next child is a near possibility.

    4. legalchef*

      Re the pregnancy, I’d go ahead with your plans. There’s no way to know how long (or short) it will take you to either get pregnant or to find a new job. I had an early miscarriage over the summer and then started a new job mid-September (actually, I scheduled the interview a few days before finding out I was pregnant). Now, I am 6.5 months pregnant – and the day they use to date my pregnancy is literally my start date here.

      In an ideal world where everything was perfect, I would have had more time here before getting pregnant, but I am glad I didn’t wait, because we had already been trying for 9 months and who knows how long it would have taken if I had waited until I was settled into the new job. Luckily, my boss is great and is honoring FMLA even though I won’t technically qualify for it.

  67. Drax*

    Thanks to the folks who replied last week about SL getting fired. I did reply rather late. I decided to mail SL a brief note so that he can get back to me if he wants to or bow out without being put on the spot. I just briefly said I appreciated his expertise in Infinity Stones, enjoyed working with him, and wished him luck. I decided I would be fine continuing to be in contact outside of work as long as he didn’t commit a violent felony or larceny against our workplace (didn’t say that, obviously). Now it’s up to him.

  68. to apply or not*

    One of my co-workers resigned and now I need to decide whether to apply for the newly vacant position. It would be a lateral transfer (same pay/very similar title). The easiest way to explain the difference is I currently manage a small number of people and in that job, I would manage projects. I would also deal less directly with clients and more frequently with vendors. I would have the same (good!) boss.

    There are so many factors at play, but I’m just curious what other people would do. Considering discussing with my boss today.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think if managing projects was either a skill-development opportunity for me, or if I knew I just wanted to transition away from managing people, I would do it. I think speaking to your boss is a good step, since s/he would presumably be the hiring manager and would be best equipped to assess how your professional goals and development within the company line up with his/her vision of that particular role.

    2. Trix*

      Definitely speak with your boss, especially since they’ll be the hiring manager. They should have more information on the role and be able to chat with you about it specifically related to you.

      If it were me, I’d do it. But I am fully aware of the fact that I’d rather manage projects than people, and deal with vendors than customers. Even if I weren’t sure though, I think it’s still worth at the minimum looking further into, and unless your company is one to punish employees who apply for an internal position and then decline, apply.

  69. Nervous Accountant*

    Kind of work related, kind of more personal than work related and I’m a little embarassed about these sentiments.

    A few days ago I was randomly thinking about this job I had 5 years ago. I was a seasonal temp at a nonprofit. An employee of the org who reported to me didnt’ like me and was disrespectful to the point she screamed at me in front of outside clients and all the coworkers. I cried, and I apologized (yeah I’m cringing horribly just thinking about this!) A lot more shitty things happened but that was a huge thing.

    It was a learning experience, and I promised myself that if this ever happened again I will NOT tolerate this ever again! Lo and behold, it actually happened later that day! Lol.

    My boss emailed me (ME! not the team leader or other team leader but ME!) to hold the fort down. Part of that meant assigning and reassigning stuff. I assigned work to coworker. Coworker flipped out and screamed at me that she doesn’t want to do it, who am I to assign stuff etc. I explained that it was part of my job and I was asked to. She kept saying since when am I to do that stuff.

    This coworker–she’s been here a little bit longer than me, and tbh I see how she talks to everyone else so I mostly avoided her for my own peace of mind. I figure she must be talented somehow, or else my boss would have canned her. Anyway, so that happened. She left without touching the work (which is a HUGE deal right now).

    I didn’t even hesitate–I emailed my boss (calmly and factually), someone spoke to her, it was dealt with. Along the way I was assured I did nothing wrong, and she had no right to speak to me that way and many agreed that I did nothing wrong. The other day I was told that her performance improved; her attitude is still horrendous and she hates me but I’m not crying over that lol

    Why is this so significant to me? Because after YEARS of struggling at shitty companies and employers, I finally feel I have some respect? I have earned trust? It’s sad that it’s taken so long and that I”m so happy about such a small thing in the bigger picture but..yeah.

    2. C Average*

      This is awesome. You’ve worked hard to get to this place, and you’ve more than earned the trust and respect you’re getting now. Virtual back-pats to you.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        LOL I can’t do that, and if I did I’d probably be in more trouble for that. I’ve heard that she’s on her way out any way, don’t know if her choice or my boss’s choice.

        All in all, it was a pretty good experience I’d say.

        I’m just baffled and maybe I’m going off on a tangent–this person is young (early 20s) just graduated college, is (or was) good at her job, and professionally at a level that I think most ppl in their 20s would kill to have. She also seems to have a stable normal social/family life (posting about boyfriend and friends and family–nothing crazY). The coworker from my first example was also only 21, still a college student in a professional role at an org. I mean, you’re smart and talented and have the world at your tips–why the nasty attitude?

  70. MegaMoose, Esq*

    Networking for Introverts: Week OMG When Does It End

    Thanks to everyone who helped with my “contacts of contacts” script two weeks ago! I emailed the two top people on my list and have coffee scheduled with both of them next week. One was very enthusiastic in her responses to me, the other seemed pretty busy and took longer to get back to me, but get back to me he did. I am still nervous about being presumptuous and taking up people’s time, but as I understand it, this is just the way things are done and I need to suck that feeling up if I want to get into the private sector any time this decade.

    In the spirit of my networking push, I “ran into” another law school classmate on Facebook and decided, hey, why not! So we had coffee this morning. He’s had a bit of a round-about path to getting to a permanent position too, so it was good to hear about how that had worked out. He suggested just getting my resume in front of every firm in town, which seems like old fashioned advice, but apparently it still works at least some of the time. I’ll take it under advisement.

    Honestly, I’m feeling pretty drained right now, like this process is never going to end and I’m just going to be having increasingly uncomfortable coffee dates with random people for the rest of my life, but I’m sure I’ll give up long before the end of my life, right? My day job is really dull and draining the last week or so, as we’re wrapping up a project which means not a lot for me to do anymore (most of the interesting part of my job is helping keep people on track, which doesn’t apply so much when we’re just cleaning up around the edges). I’m not looking forward to pending unemployment, but maybe I could use a bit of a break. I’m rarely more than a week or two between contracts, so I can handle it.

    Blech. Networking stinks.

    1. Clever Name*

      Good for you! I’m also an introvert, and networking is so draining. It’s a good idea to build in time for self care. If you live with others, baths are pretty amazing. It’s quiet, and generally people won’t barge in on you. :)

  71. Rebecca*

    Just a vent…

    I wish some of my coworkers would understand that labor laws exist for a reason. We’re non-exempt. That means, in our state, that we must be paid for all hours worked during that work week, and it means time and a half for hours over 40. We are not government workers, or otherwise working under a union contract, or anything else that would be special, so no, we cannot work 45 hours one week, get paid for 40, then apply the 5 hours to the next pay period so we can leave early on a Friday. It means we would get paid for 40 hours straight time plus 5 hours OT in week one, and 35 hours in week 2. We also must clock out for our lunch period, as it’s unpaid, and not clock out and keep working even though there might be too much work to do and not enough time. Since OT has to be approved, and seldom is, people have done this in the past and it caused us to be understaffed since (1) the OT wasn’t being logged and (2) it appeared the work could be done in the time allotted, but this wasn’t the case. This also put the company in a position to be penalized for not paying people for the work done, as we are non-exempt.

    I keep hearing “it’s not fair, I don’t know why I can’t just work extra hours this week so I don’t have to use vacation time to take off next Friday”, and when it’s pointed out that it’s not legal, they say “I don’t care, it’s the nice thing to do”. Sometimes our office is closed down on a Friday before a holiday, and it’s not an official company paid day off, but people are given the option to work 4 10 hour days that week, or they can work 1 extra hour for the 4 days we’re open, then take 4 hours unpaid or 4 hours vacation time to make up for part of it, but again, they want to work an extra hour per day for the previous week and just apply it to the next week.

    No amount of explaining that labor laws exist for a reason makes any difference. I’ve just started to tune them out, but would like to suggest that they go out and get a job that meets their flexible work expectations.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I deal with some people like that too, and it drives me BONKERS. We are subject to state OT rules only (attorneys are exempt from federal OT laws), and most companies here (including mine) require a half hour unpaid break if you work eight hours. We hit OT at 48 hours/week, with no comp time. I’ve got one guy in particular who hates having to take the break and doesn’t understand why he can’t just stick around and do a little more time *UNPAID* so he can get whatever he’s working on done. Seriously, it’s the law. You’re a lawyer. We’re supposed to be sticklers for this kind of thing, remember?

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      Come work for me! Please!
      I have some very lovely staff, but I’m a little tired of beating into it into their heads that they should not work off the clock. They are getting better but, old habits….

  72. BadPlanning*

    I have two weeks left in cube land before moving to an open workspace.

    Previous to cube land, I had an office with a window to myself. Adjusting. It is hard.

    1. The Pretty One*

      Open workspaces are difficult. I survived mine with headphones and lack of eye contact.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      My condolences. Get some head phones if they are allowed, a cup of coffee beans to set on your desk (to mask wayward odors), and remember proper monitor placement can save your sanity.

  73. Diving into anondom*

    Does having a positive but unprofessional reference reflect badly on you?

    So I’m at my first post-college job, am about to start job-searching and have been wracking my brains trying to come up with references. Then my senior coworker/team leader quit.

    At first glance, he’s perfect. He worked closely with me and was in charge of assigning me tasks – he’s probably the only person in a remotely managerial position who has any idea of my day-to-day work. (I’m not sure my direct boss knows my name.) I know his reference would be very positive and highlight things I want to highlight. And since he’s quit, there’s no reason for him to tell my employer that I’m job-hunting.

    The problem is that he is super negative about his (now ex) job and the company and he’s expressed this negativity in flagrantly unprofessional ways in the past. This includes:
    – complaining loudly about how little he’s being paid to me, his junior employee who earns even less
    – on that note, responding to questions (for instance “hey Fergus, I’m done with this teapot, what do you want me to do next?”) with “I’m not being paid enough to care about this, just do whatever”
    – spending hours talking about non-work related things, including deliberately attempting to distract people when they made it clear they wanted to focus on something else
    – going on loud rants about how awful management and HR are in our open-plan office

    I breathed a quiet sigh of relief when he left because even though some of his complaints are valid and even though he’s competent when he stops complaining, I was getting really tired of sitting next to a morale black hole who’s intent on sharing his misery with the class.

    So, uh. As mentioned, I’m certain that he’d speak in glowing terms about my work. However, knowing him I wouldn’t be surprised if he went on a massive long rant on how utterly terrible our company is and how they didn’t pay him enough and they didn’t offer him career progression and how I heroically slave away in dire circumstances and similar stuff. My prospective employer will probably think he’s a loon.

    Will that lead them to think I’m probably a loon? Having someone as a reference who could actually speak to my job performance would be so so valuable, but I’m worried using him would do more damage than anything else.

    2. Mephyle*

      I wouldn’t risk it; from what you describe, the probability seems too high that it would do you damage.

    3. Mephyle*

      I mean, it would be nice to think, as Alison suggests, that if he goes off on a rant that it will reflect on him, not on you, but I can well imagine it tainting you in the memory of the person who calls to talk to your references. Because human psychology tends to work that way.

  74. Red Reader*

    We just did interview panels this week for a new training class, and sweet Jesus, some of these resumes. Yowza.

    On the plus side, I joked that I want to be [one of our directors] in a few years, and their response was “Excellent. Next generation of succession planning out of the way.”

  75. BigSigh*

    I’ve got a question about how to handle a problem-coworker professionally.

    There’s a women in my office who, when annoyed, falls back on overly fake-nice attitude. There’s “kill them with kindness,” which is fine, but this feels sarcastic. She’ll smile veeerrry wildly, cock her head to the side, and her voice goes really high-pitched and takes on a sing-song quality. I guess that doesn’t sound terrible, but it’s so clearly mocking and over-the-top…

    So, for example, she’ll say something about preferring option 1 on a project, and I’ll say, “Actually, I think we’ll go with option 2 because Wakken asked for that outcome.” She’ll do her head tilt, Joker grin, sing-song voice to say something innocuous and agreeable-sounding, but which frustrates literally every person in my office because she intends it rudely.

    I ignore it and act as if she hadn’t reacted poorly to something minor–because it’s always something minor; she gets upset any time she’s not agreed with entirely–and most of the office does too. I understand that “not sinking to her level” is a great way to present myself, but, well, she’s a colleague, not a superior, and after a year and a half, I’m losing my tolerance. I’m feeling disrespected and want to say something.

    While I know it’s not the best choice to say something, I feel like I’ve fully utilized the “let it go” mantra. She’s universally hated and the only reason her boss doesn’t fire her is laziness. I’m serious. My saying something can’t possibly cause more problems because her attitude has always been a problem.

    So what can I say that will make it clear I’m not alright with being spoken to in that way, while not breaking my own professional demeanor? “I can tell from your expression and tone you’re unhappy. Would you like to discuss my reasoning further? No? Can you please stop speaking to me that way? While I’m sure you didn’t intend for it to be, it feels disingenuous.”

    Thanks for suggestions.

    1. INeedANap*

      I feel like this is a no-win situation for you. If you say that you can tell she’s unhappy, she’ll probably just deny it in the exact same tone and then you’re put in the position of having to insist to her that what she says she is feeling isn’t what she is feeling. Which, you may be right! But this is a trap for you. If you call her on it, she can deny it and make you look like the crazy one.

      She wants someone to care about what she’s feeling – she’s displaying this type of behavior because she’s unhappy and wants everyone to know she is unhappy. She wants you to feel disrespected. Anything you do that suggests to her that she has succeeded in making you care, and feeling disrespected, will only encourage her.

      So I would suggest just Not Caring as hard as you possible can. Present a relaxed, professional, unconcerned vibe to her in every conversation. The more unconcerned you are about her, and the more you deny her the powerful feeling of making you feel disrespected, the better off you will be.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        I feel like calmly calling them out can be effective. “It seems like you’re being passive-aggressive. If you disagree, I hope you realize you can be forthright with objections.”

        1. INeedANap*

          It can be – but I think someone who pulls this kind of stuff regularly is just going to up the ante. “Ohhhh, of COURSE I would NEVER be passive aggressive! I don’t disagree AT ALL.” And then, she just has the satisfaction of getting a rise out of OP, and won’t actually change her behavior at all.

          I think you’re looking at it from a reasonable, Normal Person point of view. This kind of passive-aggressiveness doesn’t come from reasonable people, however.

          1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

            It’s my worst failing. “But this is reasonable and normal.”

    3. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      Yeah, I think this is worth saying something about. “Naomi, if you’re not happy with how we’re planning to fix the portside PDC, I hope you know you can say that plainly. It’s pretty clear that you’re unhappy with my method, but passive-aggressiveness is not really a productive approach.”

    4. KR*

      “Why do you do that whenever I disagree with you? It’s seems kind of immature. I hope you know that it makes it difficult to talk to you like an adult.” I think if you don’t get too excited and revert back to your “let it go” attitude after, it might let her know that you’re on to her and you know what she’s doing but that you aren’t going to play along.

    5. Master Bean Counter*

      My go to is, “I’m sorry, what did you say?” Often making them repeat what they just said makes them very uncomfortable and most often they’ll back down. If they up the ante and repeat the snide remark then I go with, “What do you mean by that?”
      Making her explain what she is doing should pull all of the wind right out of her sails. Two or three times she should stop doing that annoying thing if you are in the room.

    6. Aealias*

      Embrace the words, treat the tone as if it were genuine.

      “I’m so glad you agree!”
      “I appreciate how you make an effort to come onside right away. Not everyone is so flexible.”
      “You’re always so great about hearing other people’s point of view and adjusting your plans. I really appreciate that.”

      Sometimes, the cognitive dissonance can actually lead people to behave the way they’re pretending-to-behave. They’ll adjust their behaviour to align with the feedback, to ease the confusion between, “I’m being sarcastic!” and, “But they’re acting like I’m being awesome.” Because coming out and SAYING, “I’m being sarcastic!” would undo their whole ploy.

  76. Jan Levinson*

    I’ve been waiting for this all week to share my nerves/excitement!

    One of my coworkers who is a slightly senior position to me resigned on Monday (her old company offered her more money to come back under a different manager). After she resigned, my boss called me into his office and said the position is mine if I want it, and that he thinks I’d be perfect for the role. It pays 3k more/year than what I’m making now (and that’s after getting a 13% raise in December!) I’ve been with the company for a year and a half, and have been very successful in my current role. However, my boss told me to keep the promotion on the “downlow” until he talks to my direct supervisor about it. She depends on me A LOT, and will be very upset if I move positions (in the new position – I would be directly under my boss, not under her.)

    Anyway – my supervisor and boss are in his office with the door closed assumedly talking about it right now. They’ve been in there about 45 minutes and it’s making me nervous! I don’t like that I’ll be letting my supervisor down once she finds out, but I’m really excited for this new role!

    2. AnotherAlison*

      I’m really hoping for an update later today! Sounds like a great opportunity.

      (Also – reminds me of yesterday’s last post and the OP’s concern about leaving her current role. Do not worry about your current supervisor. She will be fine!)

      1. Jan Levinson*

        I will try and update later today! I’m meeting with my boss to further discuss the role, so we’ll see how that goes!

    3. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      Congrats! Just remember that any emotions your supervisor has is theirs to deal with. This is an exciting time you so don’t let that get you down!

    6. Jan Levinson*

      One positive update so far:

      My supervisor came to me over lunch and said “I hear we’re meeting with you about position X this afternoon. I just wanted to let you know that I just want you to be happy, and even though your shoes would be hard to fill for position Y, I will fully support it if you want to move to position X. We just want to keep you here in the company, and to continue to be successful.”

      I’m meeting with her and my boss in about 30 minutes to discuss the position further. Honestly, I don’t know exactly what the day to day looks like, but my coworker who is currently in the position said that she really liked it and had nothing bad to say about it (she just received an offer from her former company that she couldn’t pass up.) She said the training for the job is really thorough, and that most of the job is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. I will also get to leave the office a couple times a week to visit customers, which will certainly be a nice change of pace from my current “sit in a desk all day” job!

  77. hillian*

    My boss and grandboss are both retiring in a year. I’m an exec assistant but actually do a lot of graphic design work and event planning (areas of expertise from previous jobs). My boss said she and grandboss plan for me to start transitioning into a new role – webmaster for our organization’s website. I will be working with a company that will provide templates for our website and assist with technical issues, but I will be responsible for the content. I have limited experience in web design, website maintenance, etc. My first thoughts are that I need to research the designs of award-winning websites from similar organizations, and then take some Coursera classes on web design. What else do I need to do to prepare?

  78. Manderley Again*

    I was hired at a nonprofit last year to create/manage a project on which I am the only employee. This week we were approved to hire another FT staff person and a PT grants writer who will report to me, in order to grow the program. The FT position requires lots of travel around the state and will likely be based out of another office a few hours away.

    I’ve never managed a professional position before and I’m a little nervous about finding the right balance between supervision and letting them do their thing. Compounding this is the fact that our roles will work closely with one another but we won’t be in the same place at the same time very often. Any suggestions to make this all work?

    1. Nathaniel*

      You can tow the middle line by making sure they have the resources they need and by organizing the role around clear deliverables.

      “We have the SPX project coming up and need an executive summary and budget laid out by Friday, let me know if you need any guidance on that.”

      When Friday comes around, you’ll have a sense if this approach is sufficient.

      I would combine this with bi-weekly progress meetings.

      A deliverables approach makes it so that you are not micro-managing while ensuring they have the resources to do their thing professionally.

  79. Normally A Lurker*

    Weird kitchen etiquette question: What are your thoughts on bringing cups to work. A friend just posted this:

    “Do you all bring in cups to work? And if so, do you care if people use them? I have a cup that I like, so I tend to keep it at my desk, and not put it in the communal cupboard.

    I was using a larger cup for water, and today (the office busy body), said it was someone else’s (he’s here, maybe, once a week) and grabbed it out of my hands to finish washing and give it to the guy. ”

    I”m of the opinion that if you want it to be “yours” keep it at your desk. If it’s in the kitchen, it’s communal property. Am I wrong here? What do you think?

    2. Tau*

      I think it depends on the office. At Company A, we switch desks a lot and are generally subtly discouraged from personalising them too much, so mugs are kept in the kitchen cupboard. It’s generally understood that those mugs are personal mugs and you don’t just randomly use someone else’s. There’s also a spreadsheet hanging out listing people, their mug, and how they take their tea/coffee – we are very very organised about our tea runs – so in theory you can check to see who a given mug belongs to. At Company B, personal mugs are kept at your desk as you say.

    3. katkat*

      I think you should bring your own cup, keep it at your desk, and wash it yourself.
      If I saw a mug in the office kitchen cabinet, I wouldn’t automatically assume it’s communal property; but then again, I wouldn’t leave my own mug in the kitchen cabinet.

    4. Sylvia*

      I’ve somehow never seen communal cups at work! Huh. In every workplace with a kitchen, we all kept our things in the kitchens but didn’t assume they were shared.

      In an office where kitchen = communal, I would start keeping it at my desk. I’m a little too much of a neat freak to handle that!

    5. StopThatGoat*

      Yea, I wouldn’t have assumed it was communal. I wouldn’t have felt comfortable using it but like others have said, this can depend on your work environment.

    6. JustaTech*

      At Current Job there are communal cups (with the company logo) and personal cups in the kitchen, but I still keep my cups at my desk. At OldJob you could not have a cup at your desk for safety reasons, so personal mugs were kept in one cupboard and shared mugs in another.

    7. Marisol*

      I think you are right, but if your office does it differently, it makes sense to accept the prevailing culture.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      I keep my personal / favorite cups at my desk. At Exjob, if someone thought my teacup was one of the communal mugs and borrowed one, I’d never see it again because there were so many people on the floor. I’d have to go to every single desk and see if they had it. Ain’t nobody got time for that. So I’d use my teacup and then wash it and take it back to my desk.

  80. Ali*

    The company I currently work for is going to be shutting down. It’s the only full-time, regular job I’ve had, and I’ve been here over a decade. When the doors finally close, I’m planning on asking for an employment verification letter, and contact information for references. Is there anything else I need to ask for that will help in future employment searches?

    Also, we’ve known this was coming, so I have been job searching. I’ve had interviews for 2 different positions at 2 different companies without receiving an offer. Is it worth it to keep looking at those places and applying for the right job? Or should I write them off?

    2. JustaTech*

      Link with everyone you can on LinkedIn! Write down everything you can about bosses and stuff (since you’d be amazed what you can forget in a few years).

      And here’s a little sliver lining: when an interviewer asks why you are leaving your current job “the company is closing” is pretty much explanation-free.

    3. Chaordic One*

      Does the company have a national or regional headquarters? If so get the contact info. You should probably get personal contact info for your supervisors and your coworkers who you might need to use for references. In my experience, all of the former supervisors I approached for this info were happy to provide it for me.

      I don’t think it would hurt to apply for different positions at the companies where you’ve already applied. There are certainly places where, if you’ve been on an interview there, you would never consider working there or reapplying there. OTOH, if it seemed like a decent place to work, sure, go ahead and reapply, while still looking for other new opportunities.

  81. TootsNYC*

    I need to say this somewhere, and I don’t think there’s anywhere (or anyone) “safe” to say it to in real life.

    I’ve become worried I’m going to get laid off because I get paid as much as I do.

    My company has a huge mandate to cut expenses, and they’re doing all sorts of flailing around—moving people from office to office, etc. (They’re really showing that they just cannot plan, to be honest.)

    If they laid me off and hired someone to do the same job for less money, they could save $30,000 a year. That’s already happened to me once before, at my last job–they laid me off at $78,000 and gave all my tasks to my assistant who was making $55,000.

    At this company, they just reorganized people in my role all around as part of big re-org aimed at cutting costs. So theoretically I ought to be able to relax for a year or two; they theoretically should have evaluated whether they’re willing to pay my salary.

    But they’ve done several things in stuttering steps lately, and now I’m worried!

    I can’t tell my husband—I’m the only wage earner, and he panics. (though I also think I’ll need to say something so that if it doesn’t happen, he isn’t blindsided)
    I can’t confide in my fellow colleagues; they’re in the same position I am.
    So I’m telling you guys!

    I guess I can try to be so good at my job still so that when they do decide to tighten, one option is to lay off a colleague and give me their job in addition to my own.

    1. Nathaniel*

      Maybe you could have a conversation with management and say

      “I understand there have been a lot of changes lately, and I want to assure you that I am on board and want to help make the company as efficient as possible. If that means re-organizing responsibilities, taking on new challenges, or evaluating other aspects of the job, I am open to that type of discussion in order to ensure my team’s success and continued productivity.”

      1. katkat*

        +1
        I think this is a good idea. Some things are out of your control, but this would give you a feeling that at least you communicated your openness to changing in order to keep your job. If they aren’t willing/able to accommodate that, at least you set it out on the table.

        1. RR*

          Second this. I have been a manager in the position of having to reduce staff due to severe budget constraints. I inherited someone who had a VERY high salary, relative to what the market actually commands, and we did have to let her go. Had she come to me with a conversation along the lines of what Nathaniel suggests, and even more, with suggestions of examples of what she might take on, the situation might have gone differently. Instead, she was someone who liked to complain — a lot — without offering constructive suggestions, and push back on any new task.

          If you are a long-time employee, you can try to leverage that. “I know from my many years here that we could really use X, Y, Z, and here are some thoughts I have on how I could contribute to this…..” Good luck!

    2. Marisol*

      Sorry. I hear the anxiety in this post, and the situation sounds awful. If I were in your shoes, I would want to be able to share this with my husband, as I would feel entitled to share the emotional burden equally. But of course I don’t know the full story.

    3. Hiker 1546*

      So sorry that your husband will only add to your stress and rather than him propping you up, you will have to prop him up while you are already stressed. Double-stress for you. Yikes!

    4. Chaordic One*

      I guess you should also get out and update that old resume and start a job search, just in case.

  82. Future Grad Student*

    I’m going to grad school! I just sent an email and paid a deposit that will entirely turn my life upside-down. I’ll be moving halfway across the country back to my home state after having lived on the east coast since starting college and shifting career tracks pretty dramatically from software development PM to healthcare. It’s a fantastic opportunity (fully funded at a top school) and I’m super excited but also super nervous. Any words of wisdom or advice out there?

    1. Nathaniel*

      Congrats on your new journey! I would do my best to find a mentor and co-publish on some projects while in school. Make the most of the opportunity by having someone take you under their wing. Whatever you do, resist the temptation to over share or extend yourself in a way that you may regret. As nice as many departments are, at times the waters are turbulent.

    2. MissGirl*

      Build strong relationships with your cohorts. My experience is grad school is much more collaborative. Take opportunity to do as much of the outside classroom opportunities the school offers. But remember you can’t do everything so prioritize and let go of what you can’t do.

  83. Nathaniel*

    Does anyone else feel like they are sending resumes and cover letters into black holes? Perhaps it is just pessimism, but I wonder if many positions I have gone out for have selected internal candidates before even listing the job. I certainly don’t want to come across as bitter and I am optimism with each new potential position. However, the market seems ruthless right now.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I have felt this many, many times over my seemingly interminable job search. I spent a LOT of time focusing on my cover letters a few years ago and started getting better results when I was precision-bombing instead of carpet-bombing. Even still, sometimes everything just seems to dry up sometimes, and sometimes I don’t get anything off of stuff I’m really excited about and fits my targets criteria well. It’s rough out there.

    2. KR*

      Ugh I KNOW. It’s so frustrating to put so much effort into a cover letter and tailoring your resume to the job and……. nothing. No response what so ever.

    3. JustaTech*

      Yup! And since I’m trying to get into government I don’t know if it’s a real black hole or just that gov moves like a glacier. And since it’s gov I’m not even sure if the cover letter I sweated bullets over is even getting read by a human.

    6. MissGirl*

      I did. Radio silence for a few months including some rejections in a few hours of applying. I focused on what I could control: applying to more positions along with adjusting my resume, actively networking, and doing my current job well. Then, bam, two companies called me in the course of two weeks. I’ve interviewed at both and now have two offers. Both were online applications where I knew no one to reach out to.

      PS I’ve applied to jobs where my fit was more of a stretch but both of these positions I fit really well. You don’t need to have everything on their list but don’t waste time and energy applying to all the sort of related jobs.

  84. Felix*

    What project management tools do you use? I really want to move away from excel, and paper lists and know there has got to be a better way! I’ve been exploring the following:

    – trello
    – freed camp
    – asana
    – etc.

    But they seem better for teams. I’m a one-man shop with at most one colleague to help support one of my 30 + projects…

    help!

    2. Jules the First*

      I’m a huge Trello fan – I use it in groups and also for projects where it’s just me. I find it really helpful for getting an overview at a glance and making sure none of the details get overlooked. Coupled with the Pomello extension, it even helps me manage my productivity in hectic weeks.

        1. Jules the First*

          The Pomello extension lets you pull tasks directly from your Trello to-do board to work on during your next Pomodoro period, coupled with a handy timer and the ability to add comments to your Trello card at the end of a Pomodoro as well as automatically tracking how many Pomodoros you spent on a given card. I’m not a die-hard Pomodoro person, but I do find it helpful when my to-do list is super long and I have to bang a bunch of important things out in a short period of time (or when my motivation to work is low).

          I usually have one Trello board for each project I’m working on with a group (shared with all the members of the group), one Trello board of notes and handy links (usually private, though sometimes shared), plus one Trello board which tracks absolutely everything I’m working on which I use for day to day time management. The time management board has one column with everything on my to-do list (which is set up so I can email tasks to it and it’s also where my Pomello pulls tasks from) one column marked ‘Done Today’ (which is where Pomello moves completed tasks to), one column for each day of the work week (where I move tasks from ‘Done Today’ at the end of the day) and one column for each completed work week (where I move tasks from the day columns at the end of the week). This lets me see what I’m doing or not doing and keep track of what I’ve done on any given day/week.

          In my last job, I also had one shared board which summarised everything the team was working on, sorted into columns according to status (what was upcoming, in progress, waiting for action, waiting for replies, completed and ready to be archived). This allowed me to track my team’s workload at a glance, and several of them also used to copy their cards to their own Trello to-do boards to make sure they never missed a task.

    3. Saskia*

      Personally, I’m a big fan of Asana and I used it for over a year for my personal work projects. I managed to get buy-in from my department on a case by case basis and now it has been established as standard practice.

    4. OtterB*

      This may not be enough of a project management tool for you, but I really like Workflowy. It’s essentially a tool for creating nested lists; you can hashtag items so that you can search/display only things with a particular tag (e.g. #today, #thisweek, #agenda). It’s not going to help if you need things like budgets or task scheduling but if it’s just a matter of keeping track of the tasks and deadlines associated with multiple projects, it might work well.

  85. Catabodua*

    The VP of our division announced their retirement and a nation-wide search was conducted fairly quickly so that the new hire would have a six month or so overlap with the retiring VP. The new person (Joe) has now been here for a year, and the VP that was meant to retire about six months ago (Bob) is also still here because Joe hasn’t been able to fully execute his responsibilities and the president keeps asking Bob to continue.

    Joe is a nightmare. If he was a lower level employee he never would have made it past his 90 day trail period. He has not once been in for a full week, he consistently misses deadlines – even really important ones, he’s been caught lying about working from home, he’s been on the borderline of sexual harassment of some of the administrative staff … the list just goes on and on.

    The rest of the staff are just flabbergasted that this has been allowed to continue. We work for a very large organization, so the President has tons of competing priorities, but even so, Joe’s failings have been noticed throughout the organization and at all levels. It’s one of those open secret things where people routinely joke about whether or not he’ll show up that day or whether we’ll actually be able to submit XYZ project on time.

    There has been a noticeable change of attitude for the employees of our division. Particularly knowing that no matter what deadline is given it doesn’t matter because Joe won’t be around to review their work and/or care about whether it’s done on time. The formerly occasional slackers aren’t even trying anymore, the overachievers are applying for new jobs, and everyone else seems to be getting sucked into the gossip and just being overall less productive. However, everyone is very careful in making sure that requests from outside our division are handled quickly so that our reputation is not suffering aside from what is being blamed on Joe.

    The company and the benefits/perks are worth hanging on to so a job search isn’t part of the equation. And I really like the work our division does, so I’m also not very interested in looking at other divisions at this point.

    Where I need help – keeping myself and my staff motivated and on task. They are a great group and are still completing their work mostly on time and with a high level of accuracy (just like before). But I’ll admit that even I have developed a bit of the “why the hell are we trying so hard?” attitude the longer this nonsense goes on. It’s particularly frustrating because it’s not like just two or three of us know the “real deal”, most of the company does and it doesn’t appear that any action against Joe will happen any time soon.

    I know the answer is mostly keep up high quality work and to persevere, hoping it won’t take another year for Joe to finally be gone, but what else can I say or do for my staff? For myself?

    1. PollyQ*

      Joe sounds f****** horrible, but he’s only half the problem. The other half is that someone (president?) hired him in the first place and has left him there for a full year, knowing that he isn’t working out, as evidenced by Bob’s continuing presence.

      I don’t have advice for how to work with your team; maybe someone with managerial experience will chime in. I would really reconsider whether you want to consider working for this company, though.

      1. Catabodua*

        You’re right that the continued ignoring of the problem by upper management is clearly a huge part of this mess. I really don’t know what the deal is on that end. Some folks have joked that Joe must have a folder of items to blackmail people with in order for this to go on so long.

        1. PollyQ*

          Honestly, I was thinking blackmail too! The combination of missed deadlines, lying, sexual harrassment–he’s like a Hollywood version of the world’s worst colleague. Some (many?) people are just very reluctant to admit that they made a mistake, so I wonder if that’s the issue with the upper management.

          But it’s probably blackmail.

  86. Amber*

    When being relocated to another country for work, what happens down the road when you’re ready to leave that job and go back home? Are you now stuck in that country and have to pay to fly yourself and all your stuff back home ? Or is that also included in the original offer?

    1. Jules the First*

      Usually you have to pay your own way home, unless it’s a fixed term contract or you’re being seconded from your existing employer.

      1. RR*

        We move people around on international assignments all the time, and we pay for both sending you out there and getting you back. Even if you are only on a term contract with us, and we don’t have a new position for you, we’ll still get you back to your home of record after the assignment is complete. This should be in your original offer.

    2. Construction Safety*

      My company had to guarantee my flight home as a part of the work permit process.

  87. Critical Roller*

    The government person at my job has mandated that if we want to attend seminars relevant to our job, and we aren’t the person to bring the event to them we have to use PTO to do so. I’m livid, because it’s such a blatant overreach on their part. As a govvie, they cannot dictate when contractors need to use PTO- especially when it’s related to maintaining our proficiency as subject matter experts! Naturally my internal reaction to this is that I want to bite everyone in the face. The soft squishy cheek part. Just a little. *sigh*

    1. Critical Roller*

      We’ve already got all the relevant personnel looped into this cluster of a problem, but right now it really steams me up.

    2. CAA*

      How can it be PTO? I could see if they said it has to come from your company’s overhead budget because it doesn’t qualify as a billable activity under the actual contract, but they can’t say that your employer must record it as PTO! It sounds like you’ve already got the Contracting Officer involved. I hope it gets straightened out quickly.

      It’s bad enough that we’re on tenterhooks waiting for another federal shutdown and all the financial pain that causes for contractors. You don’t need your govvies deciding they can dictate when you use PTO too.

      1. Critical Roller*

        I spoke to my boss about that, and he said that while her wording was incorrect the gist of it was right according to X, Y, Z. I was displeased with that answer, but I can’t exactly do anything about it.

  89. Intrepid*

    I’ve been with Teapots United for about a year. A few months ago, I switched to the Spouts Division just before one of their two biggest annual projects, To Pour or Not to Pour. I was/am temporary, but was told that I could expect to be made permanent if I did well with TPNP.

    Usually, it’s a 2.5 person project, with a Jr Tin Teapot (me) a Sr Silver Teapot, and a VIP Gold Teapot, but this time around it was just me & Gold. Partway through, they brought on a Silver Teapot, but he declined to help on the project because he said he was too new. Then, Teapot Gold retired at the end of the project.

    Now, Silver is saying that because I did To Pour or Not to Pour on my own, I”m over-qualified for my role and so he won’t confirm me, so he wants to let me go because he thinks he can save $5k or so by hiring someone else. He initially said he’d keep me on for a bit if I didn’t tell anyone else that he was pushing me out (he’s a boor and I’m well-liked, and this would make many people hate him) but now he’s backtracking on that promise and saying I have barely a month left.

    I want to shout his treachery from the rooftops, but I don’t know if that’s really wise. There’s a slim chance I might be able to move to another division at Teapots United, and I don’t want to undermine that by being a gossip… at the same time that I don’t want to look flaky, and I’m going to need as much help as possible if I really need to find something external in a month. What do I do?

    1. Alice*

      I don’t have any personal experience, but I don’t think it’s “gossipy” to tell people in your professional network the truth. If the truth makes him look bad, that’s his problem.

      Of course you’d want to be scrupulously professional about the boor, but that doesn’t mean hiding the truth.

      Plus, the “slim change” of moving to another division could be getting smaller because people don’t want to poach you from the boor. As a random person on the internet, I vote that you start telling your professional network, inside and outside Teapots United, that Boor wants you to move on and that you’d would love to stay at this company but would also be interested in external referrals.

      Good luck! At least you’ll get away from Boor.

      1. Intrepid*

        Thank you! So far I’ve told my old Teapots United manager, and I tried my best to channel Alison and be as fact-based and calm as possible… and she was outraged on my behalf, which was pretty vindicating. Overall, though, I’m chest-deep in emotions, plus deep sleep loss from staying up all night with job applications, so it’s hard for me to look at my situation objectively. I appreciate your good counsel, Internet Stranger!

  90. Anonforthis*

    So I have a slight issue. My workplace has decided that all discussion of wages must be kept confidential. I’m interested in moving towards a more important role that would pay better, but all job offers are put out without any indication of pay. In fact the way it seems to work is that you indicate whether or not you want the job, and then when they make an offer is when they tell you what you’re going to be paid (and there is no room for negotiation – if you’re in x job you get paid y). I’m not sure how to figure where I want to move to in this situation when to be honest wages are the biggest factor and no one’s telling me what the wages are in different places.

    (Going anonymous to prevent anyone from tracking this back to where I work)

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Uh, that sounds ridiculous and maybe illegal, not that something being illegal has necessarily stopped anyone in the past. It’s perfectly reasonable that you’d want to take wages into account when considering an internal move.

    2. LawCat*

      I’d expand the job search to beyond just the organization. Do independent research about the market and decide what wages make sense for you and stick to that. If you do internal interviews, you can still counteroffer and turn down an offer if the pay is out of whack and they won’t budge. At that point, I’d only be looking at external opportunities.

      Your workplace has a silly system that ensures they will jump through a lot of hoops for no reason.

      1. Anonforthis*

        I’m not really sure what the market is because there really is no one else in the area doing the same sort of work that we do, to be honest. It’s one of the few places that will hire people who don’t have pre-existing skills or experience that isn’t retail level work.

    4. Natalie*

      So, if you’re covered by the National Labor Relations Act, they can’t forbid you from discussing wages and working conditions with similarly covered co-workers. Many states have broader laws that protect more workers.

      Unfortunately that doesn’t mean they are required to publicize the rates for their internal positions. Are they requiring you to accept the job, and thus give up your previous position, before they tell you the pay?

      1. Anonforthis*

        I don’t think they’re quite doing that, but they’re refusing to provide any information on the pay until you’ve already interviewed and been given an offer. Which of course raises the issue that it’s pretty difficult to turn down an internal position without looking bad, and you can’t just keep applying for whatever and then withdrawing when you find out the pay.

  91. Bigglesworth*

    I think I have finally narrowed down my list of law schools to two -George Mason and Washington & Lee. I love the idea of living in the Lexington area, but I have a better scholarship at George Mason. I have my last school visit this weekend, so wish me luck (and an any information or advice about choosing a school would be greatly appreciated!)

    1. Morning Glory*

      Do you have information on which school is considered more prestigious, which has the best network, which one boasts students with the best summer associate placements?

      If you pick GMU, you’d be able to do a summer associate position in D.C. without moving – but if you can’t get a g00d 0ne because it’s not as good of a school (I have no idea if this is true) that would not help you much.

      Also, don’t just look at scholarship size when considering financials – check COL as well and calculate out the total cost for both schools.

        1. Bigglesworth*

          Thanks! I actually crunched the cost of living numbers last week and it looks like it will still be cheaper to attend GM Law instead of W&L. My husband also belongs to an independent electrical apprenticeship program and the pay is higher in DC vs no opportunities with this program in Lexington, so that’s also something I’m having to consider.

          As far as the rankings go, the US News 2017 rankings had George Mason at #45 and Washington & Lee at #40. However, the 2018 rankings were leaked earlier this month and W&L went up to #28 and GM only went up to #41, so there’s that.

          I’ve also started negotiating scholarships and the numbers I have might end up going up. One of the cool things about GM Law is that they allow you to become a research assistant your first semester 1L year, so I might be able to start networking earlier than I expected.

      2. Intrepid*

        COL was definitely my first thought too– if GM is right outside DC, rent may be much higher. Will you need a car in both places? Etc.

        1. Bigglesworth*

          The rent is definitely higher (about twice as much), but I won’t need my car in DC whereas I probably would in Lexington. If we move to DC, I would sell my car, pay off the last bit of the loan on my husband’s car, and sock the rest into savings. We’d be saving on insurance, gas, and general upkeep, so we could put those funds into an apartment.

    2. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      If you come to GMU, welcome to the area! There is a lot going on in this area but you do have to deal with lots of traffic and the cost of living. Other than a couple of friends who went there, the only thing I’ve really heard about the school is the name change as that was a big deal around here.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        Thank you!!! I’m really excited! I visited GMU earlier this month and was very impressed (I love that they marry economics and law into their law program). The last major metropolitan area I lived in was Vienna in 2010, so I have a feeling that GMU would be a huge change of pace from what I’ve been used to. I’ll be posting in tomorrow’s thread asking for advice on what to expect if I choose to live in DC.

      2. hermit crab*

        I know nothing about law, but I walk past the GMU law school daily. The building is lovely! It’s also super-duper convenient to public transit, so if you live nearby you definitely won’t need your car.

        1. Bigglesworth*

          That’s good to hear! I visited their law school earlier in March and it’s the first (and so far only) school I’ve been impressed with. The accessibility of the faculty, location, and job opportunities/career services are all wonderful. I actually went expecting not to like it, but after visiting my top schools, this is the one that I like the best!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      No advice, but in college, we sang a joint choir concert with GMU’s choir. We kicked @ss so hard they gave us a standing ovation. :) It’s seems like a nice campus, though I only saw it in the dark because the concert was at night.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        Hey Elizabeth! That sounds like a very cool experience! My husband earned his degree as a music/vocal performance major and he would probably love to see something like that if it’s open to the public. His whole goal of going into an electrical apprentice is to become an entertainment electrician for musical events (shows, choirs, concerts, etc), so we try to go to them when we can.

  92. Lindsay*

    Long time Lurker, first time poster here. Love the site and have found some very useful information. Does anyone have a recommendation for resources (book/online, etc) for dealing with “Difficult” people. I find that sometimes my emotions get in the way of effectively dealing with a situation, especially when the other person is as passionate a I am. Thank you!!

    1. Clever Name*

      I was struggling to deal with my awful boss and did a Google search, and I found this site. :)
      The book, the No Asshole Rule is a pretty good one.

  93. ThatLibraryChick*

    I was part of an interview panel this week and it was interesting because the person we ended up picking was NOT the person with the most experience. But, they were the one we felt would fit in most with the workplace, and be trainable and wanting to learn the most. We also felt they would be wanting to stay longer term instead using the position as just a stepping stone. It was really interesting being the interviewer and seeing it from the other side. So this is a note for anyone getting an interview – TONS of experience does not always guarantee you are the best candidate. Also personality makes a HUGE impression. The lone thank you note we got ended up being from the candidate we had already picked and it just reinforced our decision so yes, notes DO help. And for the love of everything, do NOT wear a sweatshirt to an interview. Because no matter how good you are, that is what your interviewers will focus on.

    1. Uncivil Engineer*

      For internal candidates, I find that excessive experience often means the candidate would be a poor choice. After all, they have spent many years not getting promoted by the people who see their work every day. A peek at their past performance evaluations usually confirms that there is a reason they weren’t promoted despite their vast number of years of experience.

      1. katkat*

        I didn’t read “experience” here to necessarily mean time spent in one position… Could the person ThatLibraryChick refers to have had many different positions (moving in an upward direction), as opposed to remaining in the same exact role without promotion for a long time?

        I feel that it might be a broad characterization to say someone internal with excessive experience is a poor choice. After all, their current manager presumably gave them the OK to apply, which one would hope means the manager thinks that would be a good move for the employee.

        1. Uncivil Engineer*

          I didn’t mean to imply that all internal employees with lots of experience were poor choices. There are certain situations (like if the next level requires a certain degree or certificate and they just got it recently) where is makes sense why they haven’t been promoted earlier. I just interviewed someone who gave a fantastic interview but, when I checked his past evaluations, several previous supervisors noted that he does not get along well with others and somehow manages to do just enough work not to be fired. It was not the first time I encountered this. We do not need our current manager’s OK to apply for internal jobs so that is not a factor.

      2. ThatLibraryChick*

        Actually none of candidates we had were internal. But what I meant was we were looking for someone to do a certain set of duties. There were some candidates that have been doing variations of those duties for a while but their style of doing it would be in conflict of how their manager would want them done. Thus we went with a candidate that, while they didn’t necessarily have that exact experience, seemed eager to learn and thus showed their potential manager they would work well with them.

    2. Christian Troy*

      I’m a little confused and wondering if you could elaborate a bit more?

      It sounds like you viewed the tons of experience as a negative because you were looking for someone more entry level? Why interview someone who was overqualified for the role to begin with? This isn’t meant as an argument, just really curious.

      1. ThatLibraryChick*

        The candidates with the experience weren’t necessarily overqualified. There was a box to check off that asked if they had a certain number of years of (specific) experience. All the candidates we talked to checked off the box. During the actual interviews we discovered several things: They either a) had experience similar but not exactly what we were looking for, b) been doing it for so long they had a specific way of how they did it that would not mesh well with what the manager was looking for or c) we could feel that this job would be a placeholder until the person could find a higher up position. While you cannot 100% guarantee this with any candidate, the manager felt that this was coming across the person’s interview style based on their responses.

        I was not part of the selection process for the candidates we interviewed so I am not aware of the decision making process of how they were chosen.

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I was involved in a few interview panels in my last job and I found it SO enlightening. I worked at a university and we were hiring for a tech support role for our large department. This person would only be supplying tech support to his colleagues and had absolutely zero visibility to the students or other departments’ staff. There were two candidates: one who had clear knowledge of the systems we were using and had self-taught wherever gaps in knowledge existed; another who spoke at great length about his love for training students on new technology and the curriculum he had designed in his past role.

      They opted to go with the one who spoke of his love for student interaction over the one with the technical know-how, solely because we worked at an academic institution. Surprise! Once the guy got into the day-to-day responsibilities of his job and realized he would literally NEVER interact with a student, he became completely aloof and uninterested in succeeding in the role. I often wonder about the road not taken by passing on the other candidate.

    4. Clever Name*

      We had a similar experience hiring just this week. We are hiring for a teapot polisher and the most qualified teapot polisher, when asked what his ideal job would be, answered “farmer”. We do not employ farmers, and it’s not even in our industry, so at best it came off as weird.

  94. AnnaleighUK*

    My flatmate clued me up to this website – it’s great! I’ve been reading it and finally have the guts to ask a question. I’m resigning on Monday, and I know my boss is going to explode. Like majorly hugely explode. They’ve worked a year’s plan around me and another employee and while he is staying, I’m off. I’m in the UK so we need to give a month notice. How can I survive a) the explosion and b) a month of misery and being guilt-tripped about my resigning? I’m leaving for my dream job at a firm I’ve longed to work for since I graduated in 2002 so I personally have no guilt but they’re going to make me feel awful.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Remember that this is about them, not about you. It is 100% unreasonable for a boss to take it personally when an employee quits (assuming the employee didn’t quit by telling off their boss or something). Since you have a job lined up and have to give a month notice, I guess just keep your head down and think about how nice it’ll be not to be working for a jerk.

    2. ByLetters*

      I actually saw this advice in a thread on another space on the web, but I feel like it’d be particularly relevant here — the idea is to basically view certain people in your life as temporary actors in a play. They have no real power over you: they simply walk in, say their lines, and walk out. Giving yourself a little distance mentally might allow you to view this with an air of amusement .. particularly if he says anything outrageous and you write it down to share it with the rest of us!

      Heck, if you thought you could handle it mentally and your boss is an outrageous sort of person, make a bingo card for yourself for stuff that he says and grant yourself rewards for completing a bingo!

  95. Chronic Coughing*

    I have a question I don’t know how to ask without sounding like a terrible person. My co-worker who sits in the cube next to mine is sick all the time. I know it’s not his fault, and he would choose not to be sick if he had the choice, but his constant sneezing/coughing/nose blowing is getting really distracting and starting to drive me insane. I also have a bad gag reflex, so listing to him hacking cough all day makes me feel nauseous. I already work with headphones in, and our office was just re-done a few months ago so I don’t think moving either one of us is an option. Any advice?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Allison mentioned in a recent post or thread that she gets more questions about how to deal with unwanted noise from coworkers than anything else (or it’s one of the most common questions). I’m pretty sure that it always boils down to 1) if it’s something they can control, be upfront and ask them to stop, 2) if it’s something they can’t control, headphones and look for somewhere new to sit. I mean, you’re not a jerk for being frustrated, but you can’t ask him to sneeze/cough/wheeze less. You could ask him not to come to work sick, but that’s iffy because I don’t know what your sick time policy is. If it means losing pay, sometimes you just have to come in sick.

      1. Catabodua*

        Will they let you run a white noise machine? When you combine that with your headphones I suspect it will help.

    2. Kowalski! Options!*

      Oh, man, speaking as someone who buys Costco-sized packages of cherry Halls to keep coughing at bay due to allergies and chronic sinusitis, I feel for you (here, to add noise pollution to misery, a chest cold went around our department two weeks ago and I’m sure we drove the entire floor bonkers). Is there any way the facilities people can increase the humidity levels in your office (I mean, not to jungle levels, but just enough to keep some moisture in the air?) That might help – I know it does in our office.

        1. ByLetters*

          They sell desktop humidifiers, too! If the office won’t spring for a big one, maybe those are an option.

          Man, and I was this person up until a few days ago. :( I had a chest infection that took a MONTH to clear up and even a cocktail of meds couldn’t wholly knock the cough. Fortunately mine only started later in the day .. so I’d be fine until 5:30-6 and then my poor coworkers would hold out for a little while until they started to make pointed comments about me heading home, lol.

          1. Chaordic One*

            Before I had allergy desensitization shots, I bought one that was basically the same as for house use, like what you might put beside your bed if you had a cold. It helped. (I’m sure my coworkers thought I was very weird.) The soft noise it made also muffled some of my coughing and sneezing.

  96. Executive Admin organizations?*

    Does anyone have a recommendation for which industry organization is best for senior executive administrative assistants and/or office managers?

    2. AnotherAdmin*

      Besides IAAP, I also know of ASAP (American Society of Administrative Professionals). asaporg dot com.

  97. Amber Rose*

    OK, ranting aside, it occurs to me I have an actual question.

    The warehouse-type place I work in does not require anyone to wear steel toed boots. A year and a half or so after I started, I was assigned new responsibilities and tasks, which occasionally require me to travel to places where I must have steel toed boots. I bought some, but they were quite pricey (I have extremely messed up feet so I had to go high end). Would it be fair to ask my boss if the company can help out with even like, half the cost? Or do I just accept that sometimes you need to buy your own gear to do your job?

    1. Jules the First*

      They should absolutely be helping you with the cost – I’m not sure about the US, but in the UK your employer is legally obliged to provide you with appropriate kit. It’s a health and safety thing here, so might be covered under an OSHA regulation in the US?

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Just a data point. . . I work at an engineering and construction firm, but on the in-office engineering side, and occasionally have to wear steel toe boots. We buy our own without reimbursement.

      But, they provide hard hats, safety glasses, gloves, and vests, and and I’ve been reimbursed for special gear (like FRP clothes or Canada-required “green triangle” steel toe boots).

      I think you could ask, but more in the “I wasn’t sure if you normally reimburse for these” type of way, than in the “I know you don’t normally reimburse, but this is BS and I want paid!” way.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Yep, my boots have the pretty green triangle of CSA approval. I don’t know of many places that’ll let you get away with not having that. Our company also supplies gloves, glasses, aprons, etc. as needed.

        I’m not feeling like I SHOULD get reimbursed, more just wondering if it would be reasonable to ask about some help with the cost, since it was unplanned and hit my budget rather hard at a bad time.

        1. EngineerInNL*

          Also in engineering and only make occassional site visits (but is part of my job) and my company has a set limit on how much they’ll reimburse. I would definitely ask for reimbursed (or at least partial reimbursement) as that is something a company would typically help cover in a lot of places.

          I would just ask, “As you know I had to buy steel toe boots for working in XX area, does the company cover all or part of this expense?” The answer might be no but definitely reasonable to ask!

      2. Snazzy Hat*

        S.O. had to buy steel-toed boots for a temp job that lasted a month. No reimbursement (or at least the temp agency didn’t say “we’ll reimburse you”), but it worked out okay when S.O. attended another agency’s open interview which required steel-toed boots. Apparently only half the applicants showed up wearing them, and he was one of four people who wore a suit as well.

    3. whichsister*

      When I worked in manufacturing, we got a shoe allowance once a year. Anything I wanted was always more than that allowance, but it did help. (and because I wore them daily, I ended up with several pair.)

      On the flip side, I am in the food service industry now (I work for a holding company that owns several franchise locations.) I am required to wear no slip/oil resistant black shoes. There is no shoe allowance for any employee. However, you can save receipts and use on your taxes.

    4. Student*

      Yes. You should explain why you need them clearly when you ask, but yes. It’s also fine to ask for prescription safety glasses in most jobs where that is required – often goes hand-in-hand with the steel-toe boots. Worst thing they can do is say no; it’s a reasonable request and they shouldn’t make a fuss over you asking.

      If you haven’t tried them, I recommend the carbon-composite toe shoes instead of real steel, because they go through the metal detectors at airports more smoothly and still fulfill the safety requirements.

    5. Spoonie*

      One of the parentals would get a certain stipend towards steel toed boots per year. Didn’t mean it was used yearly, but it was there. US based if that helps.

  98. AnotherAlison*

    I applied for my manager’s position this week. I was a little ambivalent, but my ambivalence ultimately came down to impostor syndrome (which also came up in a post yesterday, oddly).

    It feels weird to be interviewing with my current department to lead my department (2nd in charge, anyway). I had an email exchange and conversation with my manager (the one leaving), and another email beyond the application to my VP (like a more casual, hey, I applied email). I am not sure if I should be chatting with them about it, or just acting like it’s not a thing and waiting for the interviews, which are next week. I haven’t said anything to my peers or the folks below me, either. I’m not sure if I’m weirder not to, or weirder if I told everyone.

  99. The Final Pam*

    Hi all,

    This past week two coworkers (both significantly higher up in my company than me), made jokes about suicide/self-harm in meetings. Is there any way I can broach this with someone, especially given their leadership roles? It’s not harassment or discriminatory, but as someone who has struggled with my own mental health in this way and know others who have struggled, it was kind of shocking to hear in a work meeting.

    Thanks all!

    1. Sylvia*

      “Whoa, that’s pretty serious.” Keep it but lighthearted but don’t give them the laughter they were looking for.

      If it would help at all to hear from the “that asshole” side of this story… I’ve made that kind of joke. I was pretty young but, you know, old enough to know better. I stopped when I realized I had a huge blind spot: Just because I’m okay with joking about my own issues doesn’t mean everyone who hears me thinks it’s fine. I sound like a jerk! And to people who don’t know those things about me, an ignorant jerk! Stopped immediately.

      1. Sylvia*

        And I only say “keep it lighthearted” because any other response is going to be difficult to deliver to a higher-up.

  100. Ms. Meow*

    I’m going to be job searching in the next few months due to the deadly combination of an Epic Merger and the fact that I realized that I simply do not like my role. I’d rather not use my current manager as a professional reference, but that leaves me in a sticky spot. This is my first role out of grad school, so I don’t have any other professional references except for my current manager and her predecessor (who was my boss for a year). So my list of potential professional references is: 1) old manager, 2) academic adviser from grad school (not the best option, I know), 3)?????

    Any suggestions?

    2. To Master or not Master*

      Do you have any mentors in your field where you have a professional relationship with? Or are you active in any professional groups in your discipline and was on the volunteer board or committee member, etc…?

  101. Becky*

    I don’t want to get into politics here (obviously, as that’s against Alison’s guidelines) but I do genuinely want to know how one would or ought to react if, in a business setting, a male refused to be alone or eat alone with a female co-worker.

    While I can ALMOST understand wanting to avoid the appearance of anything inappropriate, there is no excuse for stifling opportunities available to women when there are already difficulties present in the workplace without such arbitrary determinations.

    Has this type of thing happened to anyone? How did you handle it? How would you handle it?

    1. Morning Glory*

      This has never happened to me but, if the colleague was willing to make it a blanket policy not to do a business dinner alone with any colleague, regardless of gender, I would be ok with it.

      If he’s not willing to make that accommodation, I would see it as treating men and women differently.

      1. Mononymous*

        Yes! I’m a woman; my boss is a man. We HAVE to be able to have regular 1:1 meetings in order for me to be effective and get the work results my boss wants and expects. Full stop.

        1. Morning Glory*

          I’m curious, if he committed to doing this with both genders, whether doing 1-on-1 meetings via Skype and then regular in-person group meetings would be considered reasonable accommodation for this religious belief?

          I know this doesn’t reflect the actual situation – just theoretically. In our organization some managers and employees work in different offices and rarely meet in person, so all their check-ins and even performance reviews are remote.

          1. Adam V*

            Possibly, but I’d think that would only fly in a case like yours, where *everyone* is remote.

            Assuming the manager were a man, if he had some employees on-location, and refused to hire women for those positions, or hired both but had in-person meetings with men and Skype meetings with women, I would think that would probably open him up to discrimination complaints.

            (Refusing to hire, definitely. Different meeting formats, probably. He’d probably be advised to have all his 1-on-1 meetings via Skype, even if the employee was down the hall, to avoid the implication of inequality.)

    3. Uncivil Engineer*

      It would be very odd at my workplace for a man to refuse to be alone with a woman and my employer is very accommodating of all religions. How do you build a working relationship with someone you refuse to be alone with even for a short amount of time? What if that man’s boss or subordinate is a woman and performance needed to be discussed?

    4. Manders*

      My direct boss is a man and my grandboss is a woman. We’re all married to other people. We go to conferences together in various combinations, which pretty much wouldn’t be possible if we had to follow this weird arbitrary rule.

      The thing that REALLY bugs me about this is that I’m bisexual. Am I just… not supposed to have friends, ever? Eat alone on my couch every day? If the rule is “never be alone with a sex you could theoretically be attracted to,” does that mean a gay guy and a lesbian can go to dinner together, but a gay guy can never be friends with a straight or bi guy? It just doesn’t make sense.

    5. DiscoTechie*

      I’ve been thinking about this in the context of being a woman in civil engineering. If this was the case with any of my coworkers I’d never go anywhere, discuss anything personnel related, or really have any opportunities because 95 percent of my technical coworkers are men. Most of the time I’m in the car with one other engineer (99 percent of the time a male) going to projects/ clients. I would be office bound.

    6. Sadsack*

      What do you mean? Is the woman being asked to leave a break room? Or is the man getting up and leaving when she walks and in?

      1. Becky*

        This is in context of recent news in which Vice President Pence is shown to have said a number of years ago that he never eats out alone with a woman who is not his wife. A number of individuals have chimed in that they also do similar including not eating alone with female co-workers or even being alone in the office with a female co-worker.

        This has brought up the point that if this is applied in an office where staying late and assisting the boss can lead to promotions and other opportunities, such a rule can adversely affect women’s advancement opportunities and how they are perceived by their co-workers. Similarly, in many businesses, business meals with clients or co-workers are the norm and excluding women for simply being women, can cause them to miss out on deserved sales, learning and networking opportunities, etc.

        2. Student*

          That, and it’s all based on the idea that someone in that interaction can’t be trusted to behave like a normal professional adult human. Underwriting the idea that this is necessary is one or more of the following world views:

          (1) The man can’t trust himself to act professionally towards a woman when given any mild level of privacy with her.
          (2) The man doesn’t trust the vast majority of women to behave professionally towards him when given any mild level of privacy with him.
          (3) The man is afraid of the vast majority of women leveling a hypothetical false accusations against him if they’re given any mild level of privacy together, and is also afraid that the people he is accountable to (boss, wife, voters) will believe the woman’s hypothetical unfounded accusation instead of him.

          I find any of these possible motivations for such behavior to be deeply troubling world views. Men are normal human beings and they’re fully capable of interacting with women normally. Woman are normal human beings who do not try to throw themselves at everything with two legs and a Y chromosome. People you’re accountable to should have some level of trust in you such that a false accusation doesn’t trivially ruin your life, and the overwhelming majority of women are law-abiding normal human beings who have no interest in arbitrarily attacking a man’s reputation with lies.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            There was a thread on Twitter about this and the basic consensus was pretty much the same as your comment, and that it perpetuated a terrible stereotype about both sexes.

        3. Dizzy Steinway*

          If you’re famous I guess there’s always a risk that you could be photographed and end up having it misrepresented – but meh, all the same.

    7. LawCat*

      It happened with a colleague, who refused to go in the same car with me a to a work conference. Since he was a peer, it had no impact on me professionally. I would describe my work relationship with him as icy after that though.

    8. Halls of Montezuma*

      While not quite to this extreme, I’ve worked places where in such a 1:1, the door would never be closed to avoid any appearance of anything untoward. That protects everyone’s reputation. That said, I’ve always worked for the military, and by the time you’ve got a situation where the door gets closed, it’s something bigger than 2 people – even civilians would have a group lead or union rep with them.

    9. Oh Fed*

      A former manager (male) once cancelled a working lunch with me (female) when a third person had to cancel. He explained that he felt it would possibly reflect poorly on both of us to go to lunch alone. He was an excellent manager and this was a sincerely held belief. I just wouldn’t have ever thought to pressure him to do something that he wasn’t comfortable doing. Now if he was offering male coworkers opportunities/projects that he wasn’t offering to female staff, I would have been comfortable addressing that.
      I’m not arguing that inequality for women doesn’t exist in the work place–just sharing a first hand experience that I had.

  102. Arduino*

    How do you improve EQ? I am not a jerk but unintentionally come off that way. It’s hard me to read or pick up on emotional responses.

    I’ve studied Myers Briggs and have addressed my RBF but my job is demanding more and I am not sure how.

    Also I am a woman with a tall imposing frame.

    1. Arduino*

      Also I have talked to counselors and doctors about maybe being on spectrum and their response was that I am so self aware of short comings and how I come off that that they are not sure a diagnosis will help. My boss however says I need to be more self aware and self reflective so he doesn’t see me as doing that.

    2. Manders*

      Captain Awkward was a good resource for understanding the kinds of scripts people expect in common social situations (but don’t read the comments–that commentariat has a bad case of Not Everyone Can Have Sandwiches and they have a tendency to make simple solutions sound overwhelmingly difficult).

      I personally didn’t get much out of studying Myers Briggs or most other personality tests. To me, it felt like they were treating personality as an unchangeable force of nature, when my behavior and my outlook on life are actually things I have control over and can change.

    3. Ashie*

      As someone with a relatively high EQ, I spend a lot of time thinking about how I would feel to be on the receiving end of whatever I’m trying to say. Even if you don’t read others’ emotions well, you have emotions yourself. Maybe it would help to think about it that way?

      1. Arduino*

        Unfortunately part of the problem is that my emotional response are often different. I don’t have emotional attachments to things like processes and others often will etc. Those who don’t know me well think of me as emotionless for example.

        1. TootsNYC*

          People don’t have emotional attachments to processes.

          They have emotional attachments to the feeling of competence that they have when working inside that process.

          Or they have an emotional attachment to the feeling of pride from working w/ a process that they created.

          Think about things from that angle, perhaps.

          1. LCL*

            Or, re processes, they want acknowledgement of all the work they did designing the process. I struggle with that a little at my job. My position is coming up with a new way is OK, if you can explain why the new way is better than the old way.

            As for being a tall woman, take pride in it. Being an amazon is great, own it. I do. Think Ripley and Julia Child and Furiosa and Tarna (maybe not, that didn’t end so well.) People are intimidated by it, obviously your boss is. He is basically telling you that you aren’t feminine enough, for him. F that and F him. and his trying to domesticate you vagueness. If you want to keep this job, ask him nicely for reading suggestions.

            The issues with being a big woman and intimidating people are the inverse of the issues that our smaller more feminine appearing sisters face. They have to fight to be considered serious capable people.

    4. Jules the First*

      The fastest way to do this is with a coach or a supportive peer. I had an employer many years ago who paid for a coach who helped me understand how my emails were coming off wrong and looked at body language and stuff that might be causing my words and behaviour to come across in ways that I didn’t intend. This also works with a trusted friend, manager, or colleague – I sometimes asked a peer to read emails I thought might be difficult before I sent them to make sure I was communicating effectively.

      If there’s a specific behaviour, it can be helpful to ask a peer to flag it for you in the moment – for example, I had a tendency to roll my eyes in meetings, and I wasn’t aware of it. A colleague who was often at these meetings offered to sit opposite me at the table and signal when I was rolling my eyes. A few months (of weekly meetings) later, I’d kicked the problem.

      The other big strategy I use is to be upfront with my managers and my teams that I don’t always pick up on emotional stuff and that I need them to articulate it when they feel like I’m being a jerk. The commentariat also gave me some great advice here (I’m OP2): https://www.askamanager.org/2015/07/my-new-employer-lied-to-me-about-salary-do-we-need-team-meetings-and-more.html

    5. C Average*

      Honestly, my best education has been reading the comments here. I am on the spectrum and, through reading and reflecting, I’ve become more self-aware, but reading the comments here has helped me to understand other people’s norms in work and social situations. That’s been hugely helpful.

      It’s also helped me understand how my upbringing, which was in some ways ideal for a person on the spectrum, in no ways reflects the realities of the wider world. (I grew up out in the sticks with bookish, introverted people who never really noticed that I had trouble socially and in some aspects of education, and I didn’t have the self-awareness or the vocabulary to advocate for myself.)

      tl;dr = sometimes just seeing a preponderance of the commentariat say “that’s not normal” makes me aware, for the first time in my life, “hey, that’s not normal!”

      2. The Grammarian*

        I feel the same way about realizing that certain things aren’t normal, after reading the letters and comments here. I have a tendency to accept everything as normal, even if it’s not, so this helps to open my eyes.

    6. Dizzy Steinway*

      Is there anyone you would trust to be a ‘critical friend’ and coach you on where you might have room to improve?

    8. Elizabeth West*

      I’m tall and jerky too, LOL.

      One thing that has been helping me is being mindful of how I respond to things, mostly online but in real life too. That’s my biggest challenge. It isn’t easy. I started trying to do this a while ago. Also, I’ve been studying Buddhism and there is a lot about right speech–here’s a good description of it (article at tricycle.org/trikedaily/family-dharma-right-speech-reconsidered):

      The Buddha was precise in his description of Right Speech. He defined it as “abstinence from false speech, abstinence from malicious speech, abstinence from harsh speech, and abstinence from idle chatter.” In the vernacular this means not lying, not using speech in ways that create discord among people, not using swear words or a cynical, hostile or raised tone of voice, and not engaging in gossip. Re-framed in the positive, these guidelines urge us to say only what is true, to speak in ways that promote harmony among people, to use a tone of voice that is pleasing, kind, and gentle, and to speak mindfully in order that our speech is useful and purposeful.

      The article talks about right listening, too. You don’t have to practice Buddhism or anything to get something out of this. My knee-jerk impulse has always been to respond quickly, because my mind is very quick. I find if I really concentrate on listening to what other people are saying, then my replies are better suited simply because I’m really hearing them and not just replying to what I think they’re saying or about to say.

      So
      –Listen closely
      –Try not to think about what you’re going to say before they’re even done talking
      –Consider your words before speaking
      –Pay attention to nonverbal cues

      This helps me, but like I said, it’s still a work in progress. I don’t talk to people much so I don’t get a lot of practice right now. But it’s making me better online, because instead of going, “That’s stupid!” etc., now I really read what the comment said before I respond. And many times, I won’t respond at all.

      Also, if I make a mistake, I’ve been better about accepting it gracefully–instead of “Well how was I supposed to know!?” I can say, “Oh, I didn’t know that. Thank you for making me aware of it.”

        1. Elizabeth West*

          You’re welcome! I thought that article was awesome. LOL I’ll probably be one of those annoying new practitioners who shares everything all the time. Sorry in advance!

          1. C Average*

            No apologies needed. I find myself increasingly attracted to Buddhist ideas–I recently read a book called The Trauma of Everyday Life that incorporated a lot of Buddhist philosophy. Maybe at this cultural moment we’re all looking for some zen? I dunno.

            Side note: I’m continually sorry that you do not live in Portland. I feel that in an alternate universe we are fast friends. Not that internet friends don’t count! They totally do.

    9. Chaordic One*

      I’ve learned that as a tall woman I can appear a bit intimidating to some people.

      I have a recurring nightmare where I’m stopped by the bathroom police and, while digging my birth certificate out of my purse, I have an accident all over the floor in front of the bathroom door.

      1. The Grammarian*

        What an awful nightmare :(
        As a shorty, I envy the statuesqueness of tall women. Two of my good friends are women who are 6 feet tall, and I feel like a little girl when I am standing next to them.

  103. Long Time Lurker*

    My boss told me today I will get a promotion next month, and that it comes with a raise. The problem is, he said he was unable to speak of how much it would be, because he still didn’t have it processed by our HR department. He took me by surprise, and I didn’t even try to negotiate. I also never had an opening to negotiate a raise before, I was always just given a piece of paper with my new salary and told to sign it.

    What do you think I can do now?

    1. Anon Accountant*

      Can you ask to schedule a meeting with your boss and talk about “I realize I didn’t talk to you about my raise.” Maybe other commenters have more experience with negotiations and can take it from here?

    2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      You may just be given a piece of paper with your new salary and told to sign it, but I think you can set up a meeting with your boss and say, “Hey, I’m really excited about my promotion and raise, but I was so surprised that I didn’t ask you more about the raise. Can you give me an idea what it’ll be? Is there any room to negotiate the amount?”

    3. Gandalf the Nude*

      Well, it’s tough to negotiate when you don’t know what you’re negotiating against. So, don’t feel bad. And it’s even tougher if you don’t have enough info about the promotion to know what to ask for. So, I’d start there. Find out what you can about the new position, and use that to determine what kind of salary you would ask for if you hadn’t had this sprung on you so suddenly. Then go back to your boss and ask if he has any updates on the raise. If he has the number, negotiate from there. If he doesn’t, tell him you’d like to have that settled before anything is set in motion that can’t be undone.

      1. Long Time Lurker*

        I have an idea what the promotion would be. It’s just a transition from medium-level specialist to top-level specialist, one that comes with a higher pay grade. I asked for the title update a couple of weeks ago, and had no idea it would happen so fast.
        I know what’s the range for this pay grade, but it’s wide – think between 70k and 90k. And while I know it’s unrealistic for me to get 90k, I’d rather be able to counter 70k with 75k.

        The biggest problem is, my boss is chronically unavailable, and I barely ever see him. (I usually interact with my team lead, who isn’t my official boss.)

        1. Gandalf the Nude*

          If you can’t follow up with your boss, I’d say follow up with HR, since it looks like they’re somehow part of the salary determination. They’ll either negotiate with you directly or you can ask them to get your boss back involved. Do get a really good idea of where on that 70-90k spectrum you fall, though, so you can make a proper argument for it if they come in low. It sounds like you’re familiar with the work and position since you asked for the promotion, so you should be good. Good luck!

  104. Anon Accountant*

    I need advice on surviving a toxic job until I land another job. It’s a small family owned company with lots of gossip, drama and clusterfudges. We have 3 employees who are so mean and nasty that several staff have quit because of.

    I’ve been job searching for over a year but no luck so far. How do you make it through until you find another job?

    1. zora*

      One day at a time. One hour at a time if it’s that bad.

      Honestly, when things are bad, just repeat in your head, I just have to make it to the end of the day. Don’t think about tomorrow until tomorrow gets here.

      And breaks. When there is drama or noise and I am at my limit, I walk away. Either take my laptop to the breakroom and work from there for a bit (are there any other spaces where you can escape people for a while?) or just take a walk outside for 10 minutes.

      Another thing that’s helping me right now if you can use headphones is calming sounds/music from meditation apps, etc. I am using the app Calm, there is lots of the kind of slow, calming music that they play for massages/meditation, but there are tons of apps with various nature noises or calming music. And I turn it up so it blocks everyone out, but I swear it lowers my blood pressure.

    2. KR*

      Advice I’ve seen is to try to remember that they are the ones making themselves look bad because they’re mean and nasty. Try looking at it like, “Wow, I wonder how nasty coworker will act today! They’re outrageous! How funny!” Also, make sure you have something outside of work that you really enjoy to try to defuse the tension of work. I’ve heard therapy can be helpful to have a good space to talk about how messed up work is and learn coping mechanisms.

    3. C Average*

      I used to have a moody, drama-prone train wreck of a manager, and I survived longer than I otherwise would have by pretending I was the personal assistant to a moody, drama-prone train wreck of a celebrity on some third-rate reality show, maybe a lost Kardashian sister (Karmen? Kassandra? Klara?). I’m not sure why, but imagining that I was part of such a scenario made the whole thing feel less personal and even kind of funny.

      (I also use this technique with my teenage stepdaughter and other people who are permanently ensconced in my life and are sometimes awful to be around.)

    4. neverjaunty*

      Others in the past have offered this advice: Think of yourself as an anthropologist, studying this fascinating and bizarre culture so unlike your own. You’re a neutral, aloof observer temporarily embedded in this exotic land and observing the native customs.

      1. Anon Accountant*

        This made me actually laugh out loud. I love the analogy. Especially because at times I think they are from a different planet.

  105. content marketing/content strategy/writer*

    Hi everyone. I wrote in a couple times on the thread about having a husband with OCD/depression plus dealing with a more demanding job. now i’m under even more stress because my husband is worse and really wants to move away as a way of escaping his problems, whether i come or not. and a couple weeks ago, my boss told us that HER boss is leaving, which put all his direct reports in danger. AND there have been rumors of layoffs in the org i’m in in my company. to top it all off, today they announced a big reorg. the director my boss and my coworker and i work with closely said in the team meeting that we’re OK for now. but we do NOT technically report up to her even though we pretty much do in practice. so i’m totally convinced we’re out too. i just hope that i’ve been valuable enough that that director gets budget to take me under her team. but these things don’t really work out for me. i think things will get worse for me before they get better.

    1. Nathaniel*

      Wow, a lot of things going on for you at once. I also have OCD/depression and want to escape. Let me know if you need any insight :)

      1. content marketing/content strategy/writer*

        Thank you. Yeah, he is just convinced that moving to another state will heal him and he feels like he hasn’t done anything with his life professionally, and that he would be able to in these other states. and he isn’t listening to anyone telling him that he needs to get his problems at least somewhat under control with treatment first with mine and his family’s support in this state, not go off alone. What do you do when you want to run away?

    2. Manders*

      I’m sorry, that’s a lousy situation to be in. I hope the bad times are short and the good times that follow are long.

      Around this time last year, I was having the “I’m not trashing my career just because you feel trapped and you want to move” conversation with my partner. It worked out for us in the end, but it was sucky and painful in the moment. Looking back, I wish I’d prioritized taking care of my own mental health more; I don’t think I even realized how stressed I was then because I was so focused on his mental state.

    3. PollyQ*

      I’m assuming (hoping?) your husband is getting treatment, but are you getting any kind of support? If not, maybe check out EAP, a support group, a clergyperson, or a therapist of your own to help you through this.

    4. Camellia*

      Please remember to take care of yourself during this time. Do you have someone you can talk to, maybe a counselor or therapist, or does your company have an EAP that could help? I’ve said for years that if one family member gets treated for depression/anything similar, that the whole family should really be “treated”, even if it is just having a professional that they can talk to, because it affects them too.

      I hope things work out for you; sending good vibes your way!

  106. zora*

    Question re: office operational budgets- plus some ranting

    – The question is: How do you track your expenses against the appropriate budgets for operational office expenses? Do you get an itemized expense update from accounting? Or do you have some system for tracking it yourself?

    My rant is that we have been merging into a larger company for the past year, and they are making our office spending so completely complicated that my head is about to explode. We are told from one department that we are only allowed to spend $x on this category, and we are required to set up a whole separate Excel spreadsheet where I have to go and enter and track every individual expense we make for our office, after all the other steps I have to go through to reconcile those expenses with accounting.
    Them- No, you aren’t allowed to have company paid happy hours any more. You are now over budget, you have to cut way back on all of your office expenses.
    Me – but we get told by the ‘Culture Committee’ folks that we are supposed to still be doing happy hours. Plus, my boss (the director of our location) wants us to do regular happy hours.
    Them – but everyone has to pay their own way now.
    Me – ok, you never told me that.
    Them – well stop doing it.

    Ok, got it. Two days later, I get an email from a completely separate department saying “Here’s your budget for employee appreciation and culture events!” GAAHHH!
    Me: Ok, so I’m supposed to track different kinds of expenses for different budget categories? How do I know where we are on our budget targets for all these different things?
    Them: you need to track it yourself. Make another Excel spreadsheet.

    Are you kidding? I have to make separate Excel spreadsheets for different things I am TOLD to spend money on? So, I have to double and triple enter every single time I make an office expense? Why is this so complicated? In previous jobs where I handled a budget, Accounting would give me a report every month about where we were in various budget categories, so I only had to tell them once where to categorize a charge and then we would look at the budgets and move things around when needed. But that was for program budgets, maybe it’s different for operational budgets? I feel like I’m losing my mind.

    1. H.C.*

      Yikes – even moreso considering they’re asking you to do all that on Excel (which is rife with potential for errors, esp if there are lots of formulas plugged in)

      1. zora*

        Apparently accounting is handling the actual final expenses, so that part is fine. They just want us to do this additional tracking so they can yell at us if we go overbudget. But in multiple different spreadsheets depending on what the expense is.

        The really fun part is I still can’t get a straight answer about what to do if I make one grocery delivery order that covers items for two different categories handled by two different spreadsheets. ARGH I am so frustrated about this!!

    2. Cassie*

      Not sure how you are currently keeping track of your expenses, but could you create a master list with (for example) column headings like date, vendor, brief description of items purchased, amount, and project – and in the project field, you would put something like “employee appreciation” or “office supplies”? Then each month, you can sort by the project field and see how much you have spent for the various categories?

      If you have a purchase that included items for other office supplies and employee appreciation, you could add a second row (with the same date/info) but allocate $X to office supplies and $Y to employee appreciation.

      1. zora*

        Yeah, that’s what I want to do, but the people in these departments want to see the spreadsheet, and they want it to just be for their expenses. So they are pushing back on me wanting to do one combined spreadsheet for all of my expenses. :::eyeroll:::

        1. Chaordic One*

          I’m sorry for being obtuse here, but can’t you use a single spreadsheet and highlight the different expenses in different colors for the different departments? The different departments can just ignore the expenses that aren’t their color and worry about the ones that are their color.

          Or use a single spreadsheet, make four copies of it, and then delete rows and columns containing the expenses that don’t belong to a given department and only leave the expenses that do belong to a particular department, then send them that.

          But, yeah, they’re being a PITA.

  107. Jade*

    Yesterday I got a message from a former colleague of mine, who serves as a reference for me, saying that someone from the company I’ve worked at for a year now contacted them to get a reference on me. I was confused as to why they would be contacting my reference a year after I started there, so I emailed HR. I haven’t gotten a response yet, but it’s been eating away at me as to why they would do this. It doesn’t sound normal. Any theories?

    1. Adam V*

      One thing that might ease your mind is that they might be looking to move you into a certain pool (people with more external visibility, for example, or people who attend conferences on behalf of the company) and they’re specifically wondering about whether you did those sorts of things at previous companies?

      Otherwise, I know Alison has answered a question of “should we check references on an employee we already hired” with a resounding “why the heck would you do that, you already hired them”.

      1. Jade*

        I asked HR what this was all about, and it sounds like they didn’t call all my references when I was hired, so they were “completing my file now,” and that I need not worry. This still sounds so silly to me that they would bother my references to perform a check that has no bearing on my employment there and only serves to fill in blanks on my file. I contacted my references and gave them a heads up on why they might be called, and told them to use their discretion on whether they wanted to be bothered to respond. What a waste of everyone’s time.

  108. KR*

    Vent time. I was supposed to start a job a few weeks ago but part of the vetting has been delayed by a couple weeks…. twice. It’s being delayed at a bureaucratic level with the state I used to work in, not with the company. My husband works so we aren’t going broke but we have some high interest debt we need to pay down sooner rather than later and we’re barely making our bills every month. Also I’m bored to death and I can feel my mind shrinking from not working. A part of me is really nervous that if it gets delayed again the company will just give up on me even though they’ve made an offer, but another part of me reasons that it’s not my fault and they’ve waited this long so why not wait longer. So I’m anxious about that.
    On the plus side I started redoing my accounting book from college to brush up on my skills. It’s recent and came with a workbook that I didn’t complete as part of the class. It encompasses all three of the accounting classes I did in school so I have a lot of work ahead of me. I’m counting that as a school related update.

  109. Cs*

    Anyone got tips on how to deal with the smell of smoke in the office? Right now I’m in a room where the number of smokers outnumber the non smokers, and no one smells bad per se. But if they go out for a smoke break collectively and come back, the smell lingers for a bit (especially since I’m closest to the door and they walk past me!). It’s not unbearable and fades after a while, but I’m just wondering if there’s a scent I can dab on my lip or something to mitigate it.

    1. Sugar of lead*

      Vic’s is a favorite of people in morgues, but for you I’d suggest going to the medical supply store and getting a bottle of odor-eliminator. Smokers at my old job were always pinching them from hospitals and nursing homes, and they said it was great to get the cigarette smell out of their cars.

  110. New Bee*

    I’ve been interviewing candidates all week and some of them were just…bizarre. One person explained his job-hopping by saying he “got bored” (not a good look for a teacher applying to hard-to-staff school) and bragged about being disorganized. I also had someone who left the fact that she’d dropped out of multiple ed programs (including the one she’s currently planning to leave after 2 months) off her resume and then let it slip during the interview. Still better than my coworker, who has some guy stopping by every few days begging to be hired.

    What’s your strange/funny/awful interview story?

    1. straws*

      I just had a candidate tell me that she prefers larger companies (we’re under 25 employees). We had another many years ago who showed up knowing nothing about us or the job. It turned out that his mother had applied for him & responded to emails. We added a phone screen step after that one. I’m also pretty sure he was high on something (my instincts said meth…)

    2. Uncivil Engineer*

      We allow notes to be used in our interviews. One candidate brought in four pages of hand-written notes about his past job experience and proceeded to read directly off the paper. Then he lost his place and fumbled around for a while trying to find where he left off. I finally stopped him and moved on to the next question. He was not hired.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      We were conducting phone interview for an entry-level position and one applicant was a middle-aged woman who had previously worked in international marketing– NOT related to our field in any way. She spent most of the phone interview talking about her philosophy on life and how she really wanted to work at our university because her son is a student there.

      We realized she was trying to get the job so her son’s tuition would be reduced. NOPE.

    4. Mazzy*

      I had one guy come in for a mid level financial job dressed like he was going to a nine inch nails concert, lots of alternative jewelry with skulls and spikes and such, and long hair died a few colors. Boots instead of shoes. Had beeen unemployed a few times. Wanted more than most similar jobs pay. Had no clue what he wanted to do with his life even though he was two decades out of school. Had zero examples of anything from any job. Had an old school local accent that was the strongest I’d ever heard, almost to the point it sounded put on. Like every single word had a really exaggerates local accent, included old pronunciations of words you rarely hear anymore except from those around in the 50s.

    5. Dizzy Steinway*

      The guy who told me he was amazed he got an interview as he spent much less time on this application than the ones for jobs he really wanted.

      I wasn’t on the panel but showed him to the room. He made the rookie error of thinking that meant I wouldn’t tell them what he had said.

    6. Dizzy Steinway*

      Almost forgot the time I went to an interview day for a job in entertainment journalism. It wasn’t really a group interview – we did an icebreaker, did a couple of test exercises in the same room but working solo, then had individual interviews. (Not only did I get one of the two jobs, I actually made friends with one of the other applicants. We’re still friends almost ten years later.)

      Anyway, for the icebreaker they asked us each to name one band or singer and one TV show we were currently enjoying. This was for an entertainment website writing about this stuff so it shouldn’t have been a hard question. This one guy went silent, sputtered for a bit and then said: “Um… um… Mozart?”

      After we were given a test task to do he went to the toilet and never came back.

    7. JustaTech*

      I may have told this before: my very first time as an interviewer my lab was looking for a student worker. The lab manager and I are talking with a young man (who looked like his clothes had been on the floor for a week before he put them on, and then he slept in them, but hey, college), using all the bad interview questions.
      What’s you’re greatest weakness? “I’m unmotivated.” Wow.
      He then continued “It’s not like I’m going to get this job anyway, lab jobs always go to Asian kids.” His back was to the lab so he couldn’t see that half our lab was Chinese.
      He got a “Oh Heck No” rating.

      (The best resume I saw in the four years we hired students was a kid from Alaska who managed to make working at Subway sound interesting and intellectually challenging. The worst resume was yellow text on white paper.)

    8. Halls of Montezuma*

      I interviewed one woman who showed up (late) to a 1PM interview with a Subway sandwich, shook hands, then pulled it out and started eating it. I was the only interviewer, and wasn’t sure how to react, so I just went down the list of interview questions… at least she finished chewing before answering, but she kept turning the discussion back to her kid instead of professional experience. Tell me about a complex project you’ve completed was about her kid’s girl scout troop, and biggest accomplishment was her kid graduating kindergarten, and an example of a mistake she corrected was her divorce, etc.

    9. Tedious Cat*

      I sat in on a group interview at OldJob where the candidate was asked about his goals if he came to work at our library and he basically said “I want to find an old history professor to do research for and pal around with.” (We were not the library that served the history professors.)

  111. Teapot librarian*

    One of my employees has sent me two emails in the last week that were critical of me, both copied to everyone in the office. Do any of you wise folks have suggested language for when I approach him about this? (Representative phrase from one of the emails: “you ignored 27 years of experience” [in permitting a project to go forward].)

    1. fposte*

      I wrote a whole answer thinking this was a colleague, and then noticed it was an employee. First, go back in time and talk to him immediately after he sent the first one; failing that, talk to him ASAP. Disagreement is fine; public criticism of your boss is not. Professional life is frequently going to put you in the position of working toward an initiative that isn’t what you’d have chosen; that’s part of the expectation of professionalism. This was a seriously inappropriate email, and if he can’t at least verbally commit to not doing this, you need to suggest the possibility that this isn’t a job for him. (I’m presuming that “twenty-seven years of experience” means he’s not somebody new to the workforce who’s missed this memo.)

  112. Confused About Samples*

    I have a couple of questions about when interviewers request writing samples.

    My job involves writing environmental reports. Every company has a different report format, and every report we write is for a specific parcel of land for a specific client.

    If an interviewer asks me for a writing sample, can I give them something I produced for my current employer? Do I have to change identifying information (i.e. remove client names, property addresses, etc.)? What do I do about the format- my company hired a lawyer to help draft our formatting to make sure it met current reporting standards, so is there any possible legal trouble for using one of our reports as a writing sample? And the flip side of that is that our formatting tends towards long paragraphs rather than the tables other companies prefer. Would it hurt my candidacy to submit a writing sample that’s formatted so differently from what every other company in our area uses (and, frankly, appears outdated)?

    My company is very, *very* small- we have no employee handbook, there was no legal paperwork to sign when I was hired, etc. But I very much suspect that using something I wrote for my employer would be crossing some sort of a line. So do I just have to write something completely unique to submit as a writing sample? If so… what would that look like, without actual data to base it on and if I can’t use the company formatting?

    1. fposte*

      Hopefully somebody in the actual field or close to it will comment (Brett, is that maybe you?) but I think you’re overworrying here. You’re not publishing it; you’re showing it to somebody, same as you might show it to a weirdly interested spouse, and its legal compliance doesn’t make it a secret. It probably wouldn’t hurt to redact the identifying names and addresses, but I don’t think sharing it is otherwise a problem. People share stuff they did for their current employer in journalism and design portfolios all the time–I don’t see why this would be different.

      As far as the format goes, I think it is what it is–this is the kind of writing you’ve been doing. It’s possible that it could be useful for you to do a sample piece in the more contemporary table format, just to demonstrate that you can, but I would imagine it’s easier to transition from paragraphs to tables than the other way around.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, I’d like to hear the answer to this as well. I have nothing from my old employer except one approved document I did as a school project, but none of the procedurals I wrote (dang it). I didn’t know if I could take anything for my portfolio since some of it might have been proprietary, so I took nothing. I wish I had asked.

        1. Brett*

          You might be able to go back to former employer and ask them if they can relinquish control or grant licensing on some of your former documents. They might be able to do something like license you to use a portion of the document as a writing sample as long as it carries the company’s copyright. Or even grant you copyright on a document your produced if it is no longer internally in use by the company.

      2. Brett*

        I was emergency management rather than environment. :)

        That said, if these reports go into an EIS or similar document that is submitted to a public regulatory agency, remember that those are generally public records once submitted. It would be pretty difficult for your company to claim any proprietary control over something that is now a public document. (I also dealt with parcel land records, where companies did try to claim proprietary control over submitted surveys and boundary maps, and inevitably failed in their efforts to do so.)

  113. MissGirl*

    I have exciting news!

    Two years ago I knew it was time to change careers. I worked in book publishing and loved my job but realized I would never get much money and there was no place left for me to grow. I started job hunting but I had such a broad range of skills without as much depth (jack of all trades at designing, editing, writing) that I was only competitive for jobs within publishing. All those would come with the same issues as the job I currently had.

    I looked into changing careers but didn’t have much experience except in graphic design and those jobs had hundreds of applicants each. I decided to go back to school to get my MBA. I ignored the voice in my head that it was too risky and I was too old for such a change. While in school, I chose to focus on data analytics and business intelligence. Because it took me a bit to decide and because it was such a 180 in career change, I was one of the last students to get an internship for summer. When I started the job hunt my second year, I was terrified all of the money and risk and time would be for naught.

    Yesterday, I got an offer at my goal salary in a position that excites me and will grow my career long-term.

    Things I learned:
    1. Know your value proposition—what you bring that no one else does. I am data analyst who can bring a business understanding to the data and communicate it visually in a way others can’t. It took months for me to figure this out. I had to learn the requirements of the job and what people were looking for and lacked.
    2. Don’t procrastinate change and stay too long because you’re comfortable. I stayed five years too long at my job and it made it harder to convince people of my change.
    3. Talk to lots of people. Networking isn’t about getting a job. It’s about understanding the positions, the industries, the people. So many people have made late stage career changes, especially in my field.
    4. Don’t lock yourself into one industry or company. You never know what you may be successful and happy doing if you’ve never done it.
    5. Don’t choose a career based solely on passion. Passion doesn’t get you out of crap apartment living with roommates and pushing your car down the street. Find out where your likes and skills intersect with good job prospects.
    6. School or no, you’ll always be learning. Being on top of your skills will make you marketable.
    7. A degree isn’t a magic bullet. I had to hustle hard to get this offer.
    8. Get advice but remember only you can make the decision.

    1. MissGirl*

      Just so I doesn’t sound like I’m bragging. I made every mistake my first year. Part of the reason I didn’t land an internship until May and only got one call back.

      Thanks to the commenters a few weeks back who offered me good interview questions to ask to get a better idea of the culture and work. This is one of two places I’m in offer stages with and I was able to get good info.

  114. So thankful*

    I just wanted to say that I finally got the courage to quit my ToxicJob, and I got an offer for my dream job two weeks later! I couldn’t have done it without AAM.

  115. Posting with sunglasses*

    Ok people, I have a question about pre-employment drug testing. I have to do it for my new job. I want to be clear that I am not trying to BEAT a drug test. I have never taken an illegal drug, ever. The issue is that I take a higher than usual dose of a sleep medication. This dose is prescribed by my doctor and totally legit. It is similar to a benzodiazepine. From what I have read online, the standard drug tests won’t even pick it up, but a more detailed type will, and that this particular medication takes 6 to 14 hours to clear from your system. The drug testing facility says to bring your medication bottle to the appointment. I imagine that everything would be fine, but could they report it to my new employer as “well, s/he failed, but it’s because of Prescription X?” I am not comfortable disclosing my use of this medication to my employer. *I* know that it doesn’t impair me, because I live in this brain, but I don’t want them to wonder. My job will involve working directly with controlled substances, so there isn’t much room for error. Should I just skip it the night before? It will be a long, long night and I’ll probably be miserable the next day or two, but it won’t kill me.

    1. JustGonnaBeAnon*

      This is a common misconception. First, don’t skip your meds! Secondly, when you go to do the drug test, they will ask you to write a list of prescriptions you take and dosages. If you take something opioid-based (and possibly others, but definitely if it’s a pain med) they will ask for a copy of the prescription from your doctor.

      That’s it :) If what’s in your system matches what’s on the paper, you’re in the clear.

      Good luck at the new job.

      1. Spoonie*

        The two times I’ve done a drug test, they have not asked me for a list of my prescriptions, so that might vary by lab. As a chronic migraine sufferer, I have a greater than average chance of failing since I’m on some interesting pain killers. All legally prescribed, but still a cause for concern.

    2. JustGonnaBeAnon*

      Oh, also, the “they” in this scenario is not your employer; legally it has to be a third party. The third party (the testing facility, often called the MRO, usually a government agency but not always) will not disclose any medical information to your employer.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      HIPAA forbids the testing facility from sharing your medical information with your company. It’s a third party. Take your medication as directed, and just bring the bottle in when you do the test. It’ll be fine.

    4. AndersonDarling*

      When I’ve talked to the staff at the drug testing centers, they have said “That’s between you and your employer.” So if your employer is testing for something that will make your meds cause a positive reaction, the testing facility will just send the results and then you need to talk to the employer about it. But, if the job doesn’t involve pharmaceuticals, then I doubt they are running the detailed drug test. Those are expensive.

    5. Posting with sunglasses*

      Omg thank you guys. This has been bothering me horribly. I’m really glad I asked.

  116. H.C.*

    Personally acknowledging/experiencing the difference of a combined PTO bucket vs separate sick+vacation time off pools. Been experiencing some symptoms this week (fatigue, general joint aches and maybe the slightest twinge of a fever) that’s enough to annoy me (esp after a full work day) but not severe enough to warrant a doc visit yet.

    If I had a separate sick day pool I wouldn’t have hesitated to take a day or two off, but I came in every day since I didn’t feel I was “sick enough” to warrant trading away a (hopefully) more leisurely day off in the future.

    1. Sparkly Librarian*

      I understand the tradeoff; I’m trying to hold onto my accrued vacation and sick leave so that I can get paid during maternity leave (sometime in the future, hopefully soon). If my job had paid maternity leave and I didn’t have to use those banked days, I’d be taking a sick day when I needed one. But I had two (minor) surgeries last year, and a nonsurgical issue that laid me up for a couple days, so I’m down to about 3.5 sick days in the bank.

  117. straws*

    What’s the best way to let a candidate know that you’re going to hire someone else, when you would really love to hire them too? We can’t afford a second position right now, but we have 2 amazing candidates. The one we’ll be offering the job to is clearly the better candidate, but our number 2 is also really strong and would be great in our department as well. We’re hoping that we’ll be able to hire more this year, and I’d love to keep in touch with this person and see where they are if we get to that point.

    1. Amber Rose*

      “We’ve decided to go with another candidate, but I want you to know that it was a tough choice and we’ll be keeping your resume on file for a possible future opening.”

      1. Dizzy Steinway*

        I think that sounds like every rejection ever.

        I’d be more direct. Tell them it was a tough choice, they came a close second, you regret you don’t have a vacancy for them and you’d like to contact them later in the year.

    2. LawCat*

      Agree with Amber Rose. If it gets to the point when you’re ready to hire again, there’s no reason you can’t contact the person to see if they’re interested.

  118. Fortitude Jones*

    This is probably way too late to get a response, but I’m mainly looking for someone to talk me off the ledge here and tell me I’m worrying about nothing.

    I’ve been applying off and on to a specific major financial institution in my city since 2010 for various different roles and could never seem to get past the application stage – until late 2015. That’s when I was desperately trying to get out of my previous division and was entertaining the idea of leaving my current company altogether. I was interviewed for a brand new team that was being formed, but had some serious doubts about my ability to adequately perform in the role given that they needed someone with advanced Excel skills, which I don’t have. I tried to convince myself that I could learn it – the hiring manager/AVP of the division surely thought I could as well – but when I was offered the job, I had to turn it down, mainly because I’d already accepted a promotion into a different division within my current company, but also because I didn’t want to take the new job and possibly fail.

    Well, now I’m at a place where I have no choice but to leave my current company altogether – they’re not paying me market rate for my skills and experience. And I don’t have the luxury of waiting around and hoping to get another promotion again with a big pay bump possibly sometime maybe in the future. I have student loan bills I need to pay down, they’re about to increase by a lot, my rent may also increase again, so I need to go somewhere that’s actually going to pay me enough to cover my financial obligations and allow me room to breathe.

    So I applied to another position that I thought I’d be great for at major financial institution. It was for a fraud risk analyst in one of their risk management divisions (this bank has several such divisions covering various business lines), and this seemed so perfect because I ultimately wanted to become a risk manager anyway. But I got rejected without so much as an interview, and my confidence has taken quite the hit from this. I know this particular role was competitive, but my resume is solid – more than solid, actually – and I thought my cover letter did a good job of showing how my experience on the risk financing side of the aisle would transfer over To the actual management aisle. Apparently, however, it didn’t. Now I’m worried that because I turned down the one job I did actually manage to get an offer for from them, that I’ve blown my shot and won’t get another opportunity to work there.

    Please someone tell me that this is not the case, that I’m being paranoid thanks to my precarious financial situation which is making me a little nuts right now, and I will be able to find something else soon. The last time I job searched (late 2015), it only took me 2.5 months to get two offers (the one from the financial institution and my promotion offer), but I didn’t get a ton of outside interest thanks to my subpar cover letter writing ability. And the search before that took a year and seven months – I can’t wait that long to get out of my current job. I’m going to end up in so much trouble if I do.

    1. JustaTech*

      Was the new job you applied for and got rejected from at Major Financial Institution (MFI) in the same department as the job you turned down? If not, I would *highly* doubt that they knew about the previous interview. And it was a year and a half ago. That might not mean anything in a tiny, close knit industry, but what you’re describing is a big company, and it’s more likely than not that the right hand doesn’t know or care who the left hand interviewed 18 months ago. Unless there was some kind of *huge* red flag (you tried to rob the place) it’s unlikely you’d get some kind of black mark.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        No, the position I turned down at MFI was in a different risk management division than the one I just applied for. You’re right – they probably have no idea about that last job offer. Then my question becomes, should I note that I was offered a risk management (okay, more of an auditor role in the risk management department) position in my next cover letter to them? I’ve seen a couple more jobs posted with them I’d like to apply to, and one of my coworker’s thinks it would be a good idea to mention it. However, she hasn’t job searched in about 16 years, so her advice could be off.

  119. Dr. KMnO4*

    Need some advice.

    I’m a professor, and one of the students I had last semester emailed me about a mission trip she is taking this summer. She is trying to raise funds for the trip. In her email was a link to a website where people can donate.

    I am not going to donate. The reasons include:
    1. I’m not a fan of mission work. While I am Christian, I am not evangelical, nor do I agree with the “must convert everyone to Christianity” idea.
    2. I don’t have a lot of spare cash.
    3. She was a student, and I’d feel weird donating money to one of my students, even to a former student.

    Do I email her to let her know I’m not planning on donating, or do I just ignore her email? If I do contact her, what should I say? Certainly I wouldn’t give reason #1, nor #2 as I feel it’s not her business what my financials are like.

    1. Christian Troy*

      I don’t see why you can’t ignore it. She probably has emailed a lot of people to ask for money.

    2. Manders*

      The nice thing about being a professor is that no one is going to be surprised if you ignore an email. :)

      If she continues to push, I think it’s fine to respond and say that the professor/student relationship means it’s not appropriate to exchange cash in this way. I wouldn’t make it about your finances or your religious convictions, even though both of those are perfectly valid reasons not to donate.

    3. JustGonnaBeAnon*

      Mm, no harm done by just ignoring. Probably was just a mass-send email.

      Although, if you have a somewhat closer relationship with her, it might not be bad to say something pointing out how it might come across as rude to request money from people you do not know well.

    4. Effie*

      It’s fine to ignore it, but if you don’t contact her and ask to be taken off her list, she’ll probably keep you on her list if she solicits a second/another round closer to her trip time and you’ll get more emails. I suppose you could always mark it as Spam. I’d contact her and ask to be taken off the list personally if there’s no “unsubscribe” button. No need to say why. “Please take me off your list” should be enough.

    5. OhBehave*

      There’s no need to reply. Having received tons of support request letters and helping my kids write their own, there is no expectation of a reply. Most support letters ask for prayer and/or donations.

      Keep in mind that not all mission trips are taken with the express purpose of converting everyone. The last trip my daughter took was to Cambodia. She worked with children rescued from having been sold into sexual slavery by their families. The organization is a Christian one but one of their main goals was to rescue these kids and teach them a trade so they can be independent once they are adults.

  120. Mazzy*

    I have someone who made up the fact that they had a job offer to push for a transfer or promotion or raise. They don’t know I know the offer was fake, I’m just very disappointed and annoyed that they thought that was a good way to push for this to happen. The truth is, the transfer would have happened anyway, it was just a question of time, and they actually are having a raise postponed because instead of accruing time in the current role, they are going to a new role where there will be a learning curve.

    They also said some problematic things during the week we were all pretending the job offer was real, such as flat out saying they don’t want to do their current job anymore. They are new to the work world and don’t understand how thing work – how much other people make and what you need to do to get a raise, what timelines are for change in an organization, or what you can expect to be doing at different levels. I brought my boss in to explain that even VPs sometimes do low level work, and then I brought a Director in to say the same thing, but this person is still convinced that they are above certain things. And I have a growing backlog of complicated/long-term projects that need to be taken ownership of and he is not interested in them.

    To add fuel to my confusion, the department he wants to go to has the opposite of a backlog of work. He is not lazy, but doesn’t seem to grasp that they are very much not busy. My Dept, on the other hand, is slated to grow. We are handling more concrete projects that make the case for a raise easier but he wants to do a job where the work is a bit more subjective, so pushing for a raise is harder to approve. Especially if you are starting at the bottom again in the role. And he seems completely oblivious that we aren’t in a rush to give an entry level worker a raise when they keep complaining about their job and are lucky enough to get a transfer (great timing) where they will have to be trained a bunch, and where he will leave a backlog of untouched work here that I need to hire someone else to do.

    1. Mazzy*

      To clarify this is a lateral move, though they are thinking of it as a promotion, and we aren’t giving them a raise because they bring zero relevant experience and we don’t want to reward bad behavior (pushing for a transfer out of nowhere when you are new and causing lots of drama, taking up management time with “I don’t know where my life is going and I am not fulfilled” conversations while not delivering enough and acting like they are already above entry level work). It’s not about penny pinching. It’s not as if they have years of experience in any role to draw upon. I feel like I am dumping them on someone else at this point. If this individual had waited four or six more months, this would have been a happy occasion with a raise instead of a mess.

    2. fposte*

      Ugh. Do you want to talk to him or do you just want to let him go? I think either are fine; he’s not your problem if he’s going to be elsewhere, and it’s certainly not sure that he’ll accept any kind of enlightenment right now.

      1. Mazzy*

        I don’t want him anymore. And I think he is going to bring the same problems/attitude/entitlement to the other role. I’m a believer that people can change for the better between roles, but I don’t think he will be a case of that.

        1. neverjaunty*

          Even without the other issues, you don’t want someone who will lie to you like this. Absolutely, get rid of him (professionally) ASAP.

      2. Mazzy*

        I’m learning too. I’m learning how much interest in a role impacts performance. Someone who isn’t interested just doesn’t bring enough problems/solutions to the table on their own. I’m also realizing how time consuming an unhappy employee can be. I’ve been lucky thus far. But this case is draining. After these long conversations, it is hard to just switch back to deep thought work mode.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      On one hand, I am shaking my head at the new employee’s behavior. On the other hand, I just had to reflect on my entire career, and I had a span of really dumb moves. I never lied about a job offer to get my way, but I did some other stuff, like moving positions 4 times in 3 years for similar types of reasons as your employee, and I’m a very reliable, high-performing employee now.

      I think it would be kind to lay out where he’s at in your eyes and the truth of “here’s what would have happened” and “here’s how you damaged yourself”, and then give him a chance. It is hard to be new to the work world.

  121. minnesnowder*

    I have a job where I have nothing to do ever. I’ve gotten pretty okay at passing the time, but it’s still a drag and I’m actively searching for something else. At any rate, a coworker has included me on a project (finally!) but is the absolute worst communicator I’ve dealt with professionally. She just stopped my desk asking for a final draft when I was never told how to do anything from the get go. It is also hilarious because it’s this Welcome To Our City write-up for our global network and I just moved here and no nothing about anything. She was clearly irritated that I didn’t finish it, but she never explicitly told me what she wanted. I kind of gave up on this place a month ago and they’re not permitted to give letters of rec, so it’s been hard to motivate myself in any way. Idk. Just amusing and annoying. TGIF!

    1. Sugar of lead*

      I’ve known people like your coworker. Lots of them, actually, to the point where I wondered whether there was some kind of telepathy I was missing out on.

      1. JokersandRogues*

        It’s a failure of imagination/empathy. They know something so everyone must know it, and they can’t imagine how you don’t know.

        It’s extraordinarily annoying for the one expected to “know” things.

  122. JustGonnaBeAnon*

    Hi all; I was wondering if you can maybe help with a problem before it comes up? It is a bit delicate. It begins with good news–I got a job in my field! I’m 24, and this is the first time I’ll be working in an office setting since college (in between I have been working online as a freelance writer).

    Unfortunately, about a year ago I had a horrifying medical issue that severely damaged my pancreas and small intestine. I’m doing okay, and should heal completely in a few years as long as I take meds, maintain my diet, etc. However, for now, I have to wear an “adult diaper”, which I discreetly change about every 2-3 hours. It is not noticeable visibly. But, I am worried that people can smell it? The truth is, I genuinely cannot tell anymore if the odor is smellable outside me.

    I am truly afraid that if someone brings up my smell–either to my face, or behind my back but I hear about it–I will literally burst into tears. I mean, I tear up even imagining some confrontation; I have no idea how to not be embarrassed by this. It’s stupid because I know it’s not my fault? And I mean, I know nobody is going to hold it against someone who is recovering from a serious illness, but the idea of saying out loud, to people, something like, “I’m sorry, I smell bad because I have constant anal leakage,”– I am already regretting typing that out. Also, the medical emergency itself was quite–I mean, traumatic might be a strong word? But it was a very frightening experience for me, and I *really* don’t want to talk about it.

    It’s stupid, because maybe nobody will even be able to tell? The Depends product advertises that it has, you know, odor protection or whatever, but I have no way of knowing. I’m really worried about this. I want to make a good impression on my first day at work. Any advice from anyone please?

    1. Manders*

      Do you have a close friend you can trust to be honest with you?

      Also, if you *do* find out you have a bit of a smell, what would you do? Would put a charcoal pad on your seat? Bring in a scent-diffusing or scent-eliminating product? Maybe that little ritual would help you feel better even if you don’t actually smell that bad (and you might not! Depends can be pretty powerful).

      1. JustGonnaBeAnon*

        Oh! I didn’t even think of a charcoal pad or a scent diffuser for my work area. That would help a bit I think. My mind went straight to, “Carry febreeze around,” but a charcoal pad looks helpful, now that I’m looking at them.

        I asked my sister; she said I smelled fine, but I still feel quite self-conscious. I might ask a different friend. Thanks for the advice.

    2. LCL*

      Since you have the job already, when your manager checks in with you, mention what you said about a medical issue that severely damaged your digestive system and you still have issues that you are managing with medical care. That is all they need to know.

      For the personal care products you choose, I have learned that there are products reputed to be much better than over the counter supplies. They aren’t prescription but they are mail order. Maybe a google search at home will give you some ideas for suppliers and options.

      And, you are doing awesome by still living your life and not withdrawing from the world.

      1. JustGonnaBeAnon*

        Thank you so much! I really appreciate all the support from commenters here. I’ll look into the mail order products.

        Honestly, I am relieved just by the encouraging comments. I don’t know why I thought people would laugh at me; we’re adults, not elementary school students.

    3. fposte*

      Well, first, Just, congratulations on getting through pancreatic horror! That is huge.

      I think first what you might consider is what they used to (maybe still do) with foster kids call a “cover story”–not a lie, necessarily, but a short version of the truth that doesn’t get into the messy part. Something like “still healing from abdominal/intestinal surgery” that’s on point without getting into details that might be harder to say.

      Second is information management. Do you have close family or friends who know your history who you could trust to say the likelihood of smell? You might even frame it as trying to find out if there are different body positions and arrangements that make you more or less vulnerable, and that would give you good information. I would then keep an eye on your new colleagues to see if you can find that ideal person who is both sympathetic and gossipy. That’s who you drop the “still healing from surgery” to, because then if the topic of smell comes up in their presence you have somebody on your side who can deliver the message for you.

      You might also look for support groups online (Crohn’s/ulcerative groups might be helpful if you can’t find anything more specific) for ideas of how other people can manage it. But ultimately you have to find the way that works best for you. Best of luck, and I’m glad you’re healing.

      1. JustGonnaBeAnon*

        Thank you; it will definitely be easier to say something like that to one person than, you know, wait until the nosiest person brings it up. I’m already starting to feel better–it’s much easier to imagine that kind of conversation than something that gets too personal.

        Also, I’m definitely taking other people’s suggestions about scent diffusing products. Just having a plan feels better.

    4. Shamy*

      I’m so sorry you are dealing with this, but second others’ suggestions. I truly believe most people are polite and wouldn’t say anything. While not quite the same thing, my son suffered from encopresis and still does on occasion (he is 11). Many encopresis sufferers also cannot tell if they have had an accident or smell themselves. It might be helpful to look at support groups for those with fecal incontinence issues from enocopresis or IBD, etc, to see how they have navigated this sort of situation. It may also be worth it for you to examine your diet to avoid things that cause stronger smelling stool and flatulence. That may set your mind at ease. One thing I did with my son, if you have one person that you feel like you can trust completely to sort of confide in, maybe you could devise a system letting you know to go check yourself? Sort of a code word or phrase. Idk if that is a dumb idea. Many hugs and best wishes for your continued recovery. Please continue to live your life.

      1. JustGonnaBeAnon*

        I appreciate the sympathy; and I feel for your son. It must be harder dealing with this kind of thing as a kid, just because other kids are, like–ruder? But, you know, not intentionally, they just kinda haven’t gotten a filter yet and blurt out stuff. At least that’s my recollection from that age.

        I haven’t met anyone I work with yet, so I’m not sure if there’s going to be anyone I trust to that level? But if there is, that could be a good idea.

        Thank you for the support :) I wish your son a healthy recovery also.

  123. i like peeps*

    VENT alert! 
    I work on a team that was recently split between teapot installers and teapot support; I am on the install side; we are physically located near the support team and there is no option for moving. Support person Jean and support person Yvonne are alpha bullies who have always targeted one or two people to drive out of the team and in years I have been here, Jean specifically has been a factor in 5 people leaving. They are cliquish, manipulative, hoard necessary information, they will make their own rules, and will do whatever it takes to hold what they see as power. Frequently after an installation, they have reworked the project and thrown installers under the bus as having inferior knowledge.

    The thing is, as the division of duties is relatively new, we still have to work together. Individually, they can both be nice people, but when together they are the nastiest couple of bee-itchess I have ever encountered. Both our managers are remote and fully aware of the issues. In fact, my manager was onsite recently and told me that she has seen this herself and it has been reported to her and the other manager from others, but the other manager doesn’t know what to do about them other than monitoring calls to see if she can hear issues. Jean just announced that she will be moving to inspect glassware next week and I will be travelling for the next two weeks, so I’m hoping that when I return Yvonne and I can reset a work relationship that has been antagonistic for the three years she has been here. BTW, because of how we are situated, glassware is in the same area, so I will still frequently see Jean. For the past few months, I have avoided them with all I have, keeping interaction to a minimum, not chatting, and not responding when baited, as well as working remote every chance I get. But as my responsibilities increase, I will need to work with Yvonne more in the future. I just don’t know that I have it in me to keep being nice or even polite either of these two people who have sucked the love and joy for this career out of me. I am good at what I do, and don’t want to leave. What suggestions do ya’all have for someone who loves her teapot life, but not the loose-leaf tea that comes with it?

  124. Camellia*

    OFFICE MERCENARY – please go to last week’s open thread and search for your ID or mine. I posted some very specific advice for you on handling men who keep asking you out at work and networking functions. I hope you see it soon!

  125. Jules the First*

    I think I’m being manipulated out of my new job.

    I started at this job in December, as Senior Teapot Manager, with a three month probation period (all this affects is my notice period). I report to the Head of Teapot Development, Cersei, and, in theory at least, I manage a team of two Teapot Managers and two Teapot Coordinators, in addition to pinch-hitting for Cersei when we have a major development opportunity and she’s too busy to get involved.

    I’ll admit I’ve had some minor issues adjusting (not helped by getting no orientation, training, expectations, constructive feedback or support from my boss), but the feedback I’m getting from my team and the technical staff is excellent, and objectively the client feedback is good too – 60% of my client pitches have resulted in interviews or contracts, and the other 40% are still waiting for results.

    My manager is objectively a crappy one – Cersei plays favourites, complains about other senior colleagues to her team, hoards information, won’t (can’t?) give constructive criticism or feedback, doesn’t do one on ones, doesn’t articulate expectations, frequently cancels team meetings at the last minute, and gives her team the silent treatment when she’s offended or upset (meaning your only clue that you’ve done something wrong is that she doesn’t respond to your emails).

    Now Cersei has extended my probation period by two months, which puts the end date right after this year’s promotions are to be announced. I know that one of my Teapot Managers will be promoted to Senior Teapot Manager (which she absolutely deserves) and I think I’m being strung along until that happens. Reasons: Cersei basically called me overpaid at my probation review (which is funny because she offered me more than I asked for), she’s barely spoken three words to me in the three weeks since my probation review – we sit less than ten feet apart and yet my last assignment came via a colleague at the other end of the country – and my soon-to-be-promoted teammate has been given responsibility for managing the team’s timesheets (including mine) and approving access to our server (which both of my Teapot Managers can do, but I can’t).

    Am I being paranoid? Suggestions for dealing with Cersei?

    1. LawCat*

      I don’t think you’re being paranoid. There are plenty of red flags here. Cersei sucks and she isn’t going to change. I’d start looking for something new now.

  126. Emilia Bedelia*

    Project managers! What would you tell someone with no PM experience about your role?

    I’ve been thinking about project management (in my industry/department specifically, not general PMing) as something I might want to move into in the future (as opposed to people management), but I feel like I don’t really understand what project management entails. I certainly know project managers and see them, well… managing projects, but I don’t know how they got there or what precisely they do.

    What do you do, generally speaking? How does your job differ from a technical individual contributor role?
    What made you decide to be a project manager? What kinds of traits/skills are useful?
    How did you transition into project management from a more technical role? What kinds of tasks, roles, etc would be helpful for getting experience?
    What do you learn/do when getting PMP certification? Is this really essential for moving into a PM role?

  127. MH*

    Has anyone ever made a major career change from the humanities to health care? I have a BA in history and an MA in theology and am looking into nursing school (I could get tuition remission at the univ. I work for, at least for pre-reqs). My sister is a nurse and is encouraging me to apply. Like the letter writer yesterday, I love my work colleagues, my job is meh (admin asst), but I hate the pay. I don’t want to be scraping by for the rest of my life. I think getting into health care will provide the challenge I’ve been looking for, professional growth opportunities, a good job with lots of possibilities (travel, overseas mission work, etc), with a decent salary.

    Has anyone ever thought of making this jump? Made the jump? What advice would you give?

    1. current RN*

      Hi! Didn’t make a jump but I do work in healthcare (have my RN). My best advice would be to volunteer (if possible) near the bedside to get a feel of the job itself! I grew up with a family of nurses and still thought nursing was one thing and when I actually went to school, clinical was completely different than what I thought and I HATED being at the bedside providing patient care. I was lucky to have ended up in my current job that is still in healthcare but doesn’t have any patient care providing component.

      Nursing has all the benefits you mention but it is tough work. If you end up working in the hospital providing bedside care, you have to be okay with working nights/weekends/holidays, etc…

      Best of luck! If you decide to pursue nursing, your RN license will open up a lot of doors and various opportunities!

    2. Alex*

      My significant other went from teaching foreign language in high school to nursing school, and now graduate school in nursing. He definitely loves the opportunities for advancement and variety of work and obviously the pay is much better.

    3. Overeducated*

      I have two friends from grad school who did this. (We were in a social science field, but one that tends to attract people who are interested in working with and helping people, so maybe some similarities with theology?) Both spent some time volunteering and working in a medical setting while taking science prerequisites they needed for nursing school. They are both very happy with their new careers.

  128. paige*

    I’m just about 9 months into a year long term of service for AmeriCorps. I’m expected to serve a full year and if I don’t, then I won’t get my education award or recommendations from my AmeriCorps higher ups. I really want to keep a positive relationship with my supervisor, I wouldn’t mind the education award for any future certificates, and it doesn’t feel fair to my organization to leave without someone else lined up, so I don’t want to bail early if I get a job offer for another place. However I don’t want to be leading job recruiters on about my start date. Should I put in my resume when I’m available to start work? Or would that just shoot down my chances of getting hired?

    1. Alinea*

      Put your start date as the year-mark for AmeriCorps. Even an internal position I applied for and got took 2 months from start to finish. It could easily take 3+ months for a job to start. One month to post the job and receive/review apps, another month for interviews, a week or two to make a decision, and then next thing you know your AmeriCorps jobs is ending in 2 weeks.

      Do not leave this commitment. It is not worth it unless you are somehow getting your “dream job” at 21. Even then…good employers can and will wait.

    2. Natalie*

      Don’t put anything on your resume. If/when you have an interview they may ask, and if not they’ll certainly ask if/when you have an offer.

    3. JobSeeker017*

      Paige:

      Congrats on nearing the completion of your AmeriCorps*VISTA term.

      As someone who completed a term many moons ago, I would suggest that you place an availability for your next position once your year of service concludes. Job searches, particularly in shoe-strong budget nonprofits can take months, so please be forthcoming about your start date. Your future employers will greatly appreciate it.

      I would add that the education award is very useful and accepted by thousands of public institutions. I am using the last portion of mine to take a final class as I job hunt.

      Best of luck to you!

  129. zora*

    Oh right, second question: Headphones. I have to move into my boss’s office and she is on the phone All Day Every Day.

    We’ve mentioned headphones here recently. I want to get some good over-ear ones that will block out more voices than my current earbuds are doing. Can anyone recommend a model/brand that works well for them? I am looking more for noise-isolating than noise-cancelling, because I want to block loud voices as much as possible. And comfort is the other priority. I’m willing to spend $2-300 if that’s what it takes!

    1. Karo*

      I have some $40 over-ear Skull Candies that certainly aren’t the best, but they’ve done a pretty good job for me.

    2. Lindsey*

      The Bose Quite Comfort headphones save my life. They’re best at filtering out ambient noise, but they’re awesome and super comfortable to wear all day.

      1. SophieChotek*

        I agree; I find them very comfortable. My one issue is they don’t seem to go as “loud” as I would like them.

      2. zora*

        Ok, awesome, I really want comfortable, and I’ve been thinking about the Bose. Thank you!

    3. JustaTech*

      I’ve got 2 rec’s: I have a pair of noise-canceling Bose and they are amazing. They are also really expensive and I actually don’t use them at work (just on planes or for teleconferences).
      The pair I use at work are Sennheiser. I don’t remember how much they cost but they are big, very comfortable and pretty good at eliminating the talking around me as long as I play music. The only thing that isn’t fantastic about them is that if I wear them all day I get pretty warm.

      1. zora*

        ooh nice, I was looking at Sennheiser, too. Do you know the model name, or a description? Just the big over-ear ones?

    4. vpc*

      My pair is Altec Lansing, they’re very comfortable for all-day wear and have a pretty good noise cancellation option. The only negative I have found is I can’t use rechargeable batteries, they drain them too fast, must be standard batteries.

  130. To Master or not Master*

    I’m in my late 20’s and in a career where I’m making 6-figures (just barely, on the very low spectrum). I work in healthcare and currently do not have my master’s. If I decide to stay in my current career track (about 4 years of experience), I don’t think I’ll need a Master to advance to a management position (I’m not in management right now…and not sure if I ever want to though). However, I’ve been recently thinking about a career switch (and maybe eventually changing industries).

    My question is: I know the consensus is not to get a Master’s/go to grad school unless it is very specific and you know why you are getting it (except if someone else is footing the bill). My wanting to get a Master’s is because I’m concerned that I won’t have the flexibility to move around in the future. A majority of my peers my age have some sort of Master degree, and I’m already seeing a lot of job postings for “Master preferred”. I would rather not have to go to school 10-20 years later when I realize I’m not competitive without my Master degree (kinda like how everything used to be “bachelor’s preferred” and now every job requires a Bachelor’s even though the job clearly doesn’t need a bachelor’s degree to do well – weeding tool). I would much rather do it now and get it over with (when I don’t have kids, etc…other responsibilities).

    What does the AAM hive mind think? I would most likely be footing the bill myself (I have savings so I don’t have to take out loans; will most likely still work FT and do some sort of online/PT program) and I would consider getting something broad and applicable across multiple industries (MBA?).

    1. Moira*

      I have just been grappling with this — several higher up people at work have told me that an MA isn’t necessary right now where I am, but that if I were to go elsewhere, it would be a useful credential. I (just today) sent in the paperwork to start a P/T masters’s program while staying FT at work. What pushed me to do it now was that this would be a 2 year MA doing it full-time, so I wanted to get started on it. Also, I like my job but am also ready for a change. Something I find reassuring about it is that, if I start it and it’s not working out or quite what I want — I don’t have to finish. I’ll still have the knowledge gained, and can figure out what is actually right.

    2. To Master or not Master*

      Thanks Moira for your response! I’m mostly struggling with how expensive it is going to be (reputable MBAs are about $80-120K – I’m in SoCal and would prefer to stay local so I can work FT also) and whether I’m better off throwing all my savings to committing to early retirement (such as putting my savings on a down payment instead for a rental property). My S.O. is supportive either way…but he isn’t entirely on the board re: FIRE (financially independent, retiring early). My current employer (which has really other awesome benefits) has barely anything for tuition reimbursement and I can’t really convince my boss to cough up any money since a Master’s degree is absolutely not crucial to my current (or future) role if I stay.

      I might write to AAM/Alison about this…I’m really interested in her take since it seems like her thought process about grad school is really focused on the present (you have made the decision because it is applicable to your field or where you want to be). I would be interested to know what she thought of it more like an insurance policy for the future (especially since the robots are coming for all our jobs! lol)

    3. Dang*

      I think the bigger issue is going back to school either because you don’t have a job or because you don’t know what you want to do. I think if you have the means to not take out massive loans and can do it PT, and you determine that it will likely pay off both in the immediate and distant future… I’d probably do it.
      Do you want to stay in healthcare? Look at programs your peers have attended maybe to get an idea of what “the competition” has?

      1. To Master or not Master*

        Thanks for your response! Yeah, the struggle is because I’m not sure if I want to stay in healthcare and would like the flexibility to switch industries if I want to down the road. I think my “competition” for future gigs in various industries would be my peers in my age group and it seems like my generation is overflowing with those with Master’s degrees (perhaps because I graduated around when the 2008-2009 recession was happening and everyone just went straight to grad school?). I’m concerned that in the future, the “Master’s” will be the weeding tool in online job apps (since everyone has one!) and my inability to check that box will stymie my opportunities to move around if I want to.

    4. Red Reader*

      You’re not specific as to what area of health care you work in — I’m in HIM, and we tend not to see “Masters preferred” until you get up to the exec director level, at least in my hospital. (The director level may, depending on what they’re the director of, say [masters preferred] or require [a bachelor’s in something relevant plus umpteen years of experience].) We have C-suite, VP, Exec Director, Director, Manager, Team Lead, then individual contributors, for a general idea of the org chart.

      Our VP has an MPA.
      Our Exec Director has an MBA and a professional certification in our field.
      One of my directors has a masters degree and a cert, the others have a bachelor’s and a certification.
      Of the three managers in my group, two have associates degrees and certifications, the third has a bachelor’s and cert.
      I’m a team lead, and I have a bachelor’s degree and am one year shy of finishing two masters degrees, an MBA and an MPA. (But I also have long-term goals of being higher up the org chart and a management team who is very supportive of those. Also, the MPA was kind of an accident.) The other team leads in my area – one has no degree and a cert, one has a bachelor’s and a cert, one has her RN and a cert.

      But if you’re in a more clinical area, I have no idea.

      1. To Master or not Master*

        Thanks for such a thorough response! I’m hospital based – sort of a hybrid clinical/admin role = not providing patient care but providing consultation in my specialized area to those who are patient facing. My current career track is very niche so my next step up is pretty much running the department (my specific org chart for my dept is basically: CEO -> VP -> my boss/manager of the dept -> me) and I don’t know if I want to do that…. I’m interested in moving away from the clinical side and would prefer to focus only on data management and process improvement/manage projects.

        My desire for getting a Master’s is because I don’t know if I want to stay in healthcare and I don’t want to be noncompetitive in other industries especially when it seems like a lot of my peers in my age group have masters (regardless of what industry they are in). I’m concerned that with degree inflation, a Master’s will be necessary vs. preferred 10-20 years from now (practically everything now is Bachelor’s mandatory). And I really don’t want to have to go back to school later when I may have more personal responsibilities.

        Healthcare (especially in the hospital setting) is a bit of a strange beast when it comes to education – one can probably manage without a master’s and climb up the chain.

        If I may ask: are you paying out of pocket or is your employer paying for your MBA/MPA? Why did you decide on a MBA/MPA vs. MHA or MS of healthcare informatics, etc…?

        1. Tableau Wizard*

          Seriously, are you me?

          I’ve struggled with this question myself and had a lot of people tell me to get my masters out of the way before my personal life gets too full. Well I’m mid-twenties, married with a baby, so it got too full quick.

          I tend to be of the mindset that if I need a masters to check a box, I don’t want it and I don’t want the job/boss that thinks that way. It sounds like if you do get your masters, you’ve picked which one though, so at least that’s good.

          1. To Master or not Master*

            Haha! I think a lot of us in our 20’s who don’t have our Master’s are on this boat. Because it feels like everyone our age already has a Master’s (at least for me) and I’m wondering if I’m getting left behind (as in not being competitive without one…however silly it may be to add extra letters behind my name).

            None of us has a crystal ball and I think with automation thrown in the mix, there is a lot of uncertainty. I don’t think the old rules apply (re: getting a Master’s) for our generation – it seems like it is more like a necessity than “nice to have” even if one doesn’t want to move up the management totem pole.

            Best of luck in whatever you end up deciding re: Master’s!

        2. Red Reader*

          My org has an annual reimbursement of $3600/year, which fully covers one full time semester for my program, so they’re basically paying about half of the tuition and fees. I pay the other half myself.

          I was pondering MBA, MHA, or MPH, and ended up picking the MBA because it left me the most options open in the long run. I added the MPA by accident sort of – My undergrad was in public health, so I had to take a year of business based prerequisites before I could start the MBA program. I was going to add a public administration certificate, which would have been four classes. The MPA advisor pointed out that since the business prerequisite credits weren’t being applied to the MBA, I already had half the MPA done (requires five electives in a concentration such as political science or business, I had six) and 4/6 of the core classes on my long term schedule anyway for the certificate. I said “wait, you’re telling me that if I add just two more classes and a final project to what I already have planned I can finish with two masters degrees instead of one?” He said yup, and I said well, why the hell not.

          1. To Master or not Master*

            Thanks again! Yeah – I’ve thought through the MBA vs MHA vs MPH track as well and my conclusion was similar to yours. The MBA is the more flexible for multiple industries. Nice to know that I’m not alone in my way of thinking!

            So it seems like your program is about $8-10K per year (throwing in books/misc expenses). That seems like a reasonable price…I perhaps need to expand my school selection to include a larger variety of pricing…

            Pretty cool that with your PH degree background that you work in HIM! Congrats on 1 year left for your dual degree!

  131. Shamy*

    When changing areas of your field that require completely different skillsets, should I be looking at entry level pay and positions? For example, I have worked in government research for 4 years, but recently obtained a credential that would allow me to do more direct work with patients in healthcare. Both are related areas in my field, but very different positions. I am feeling confused about the types of positions I should apply for, some seem to be geared towards new grads, but I am not new to the workforce as I am in my early 30’s, but graduated late in life. Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. more anon venting*

      The book “What Color Is Your Parachute?” is rewritten each year, but the version I read (2013 or 2014 maybe?) had some great tips on how to identify transferable skills. It basically forced you to get out of your job description and see yourself as a person with multiple skills that can contribute to (virtually) any job. I imagine newer versions have a similar section.

      1. Shamy*

        Thanks so much. I will definitely be checking this out. I know at least some of my skills must be transferrable, I just have no idea which ones!

    2. SophieChotek*

      Also there is a “Strength Finder” that some people put a lot of stock in. You might have to pay a $20 fee (or buy the book and that comes with a code). sometimes libraries have a subscription too. Or a local college might allow you to go into the Career Office and take it.

      1. Arielle*

        My company is big into Strengths Finder. I am really skeptical about that kind of stuff, but it’s scarily accurate.

        1. Shamy*

          Guess I will have to look into this. I do want to work more directly with patients, but not if it means I have to take a pay cut. Even a lateral move is not particularly appealing at the moment because I am not making enough as a single mom in a high COL area as it is and my job is at least crazy flexible. But right now, making more money is more important to me than a job I enjoy. Unfortunately, I am a government contractor and there is little room for growth here.

  132. DesB*

    Hi all, I just discovered this blog and what a wealth of knowledge and information! I just left my job of 11 years due to conflict with my boss – I had tried for three years and finally I couldn’t take much more especially health wise – I’m looking for a new job in my same field and I just had an interview. I studied and reviewed several different interview questions…and they asked me nothing like what I thought – no what are your greatest strengths/weaknesses where do you see yourself in 5 years etc…..they asked a lot about my auditing background and why I was leaving my current job (no I didn’t mention my boss at all) it was with three different individuals. Everyone was extremely nice and we even chit chatted about things off topic – my questions is – can an interview ever feel too casual?

    1. Sugar of lead*

      My recent interview had shades of this. He asked me a little about my background and my ambitions, but then he asked what makes me unique, which threw me for a loop because there are seven billion people on the planet and no one trait makes any of us unique. Eventually I figured that he probably meant what makes me stand out as a candidate (I can be literal to a fault), so I stammered out something about communication, and then he pontificated for several minutes about how 85 per cent of teapot repair is communication, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. When I asked him what the company culture was like, he went on for a while about how I’ll get experience there that I won’t get elsewhere. I thought about pointing out that he hadn’t really answered my question, but he seemed like the kind of guy who enjoys listening to himself talk, and I figured the best way to get the job would be to listen and agree with him.

      So yes, an interview can feel too casual.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Yes. I had an interview like that. I got along with the interviewers really well and walked out knowing they’d offer me the job, which they did. I accepted it and quickly realized what a disorganized mess the organization was. The interviewers had ZERO management experience and were clearly in over their heads.

      I left the job after only a few months. One of the interviewers was fired on my last day and the other wound up following me to my new workplace several months later. We are both happy to have escaped the dumpster fire!

    3. JustaTech*

      I had an interview once that ended up very casual, but that was after we all realized that they were looking at a version of my resume that was 4 years out of date (yay university systems), and once they looked at my current resume they were like, oh, yeah, you’re great, so, sucks about your grant, right?
      I didn’t take that job.

  133. super anon*

    Does anyone have any suggestions for crafting a project management resume? I finally feel ready to begin applying for actual PM jobs while I get ready to take the PMP exam. I’ve extensively looked over Allison’s advice on the crafting of content, but it’s the formatting and how info should be presented for PM roles that’s tripping me up.

    I was thinking this type of format:

    – Key Experience (go into detail about projects)
    – Other experience (just list the positions, mainly to avoid resume gaps that would inevitably exist)
    – Certifications (put my PMP test date there, I don’t have it yet but at least employers will know I’ve been approved to take the test by PMI)
    – Education

    Does this seem reasonable? Is it better to do the standard resume format and list your position and what your achieved, or should I go into detail about the projects I worked on rather than a touching on all the projects? For example, listing my title and then the name of the project I worked on.. although I worked on multiple projects in some positions so I’m not sure how it would work. Lastly, do I need a skills section where I list the programs I can work with (ex: MS Project), or is that unnecessary and overkill?

    Ty commentariat for any and all help!

  134. Buu*

    I applied for job I really want, they are small firm so their application window was very long. The deadline passed last week and I haven’t heard from them yet beyond a confirmation mail, so I went to their site to check contact info for chasing them up and I see the deadline’s been changed to read much later in time. I totally get why this would happen as a small company, but maaaaan I was gearing up to find out if I’d made it to stage 1 of the application process.

    I’m going to use the time to really hone my interview skills aside from AAM what other job interview books and resources do you recommend? I found one book called Ultimate Interview which seems solid, any others?

    1. Dizzy Steinway*

      Do not chase them up! It’s only been a week! If you’ve made it to stage 1, you’ll hear from them.

      1. Buu*

        I applied 7 weeks ago, got the confirmation a month ago, so I haven’t actually spoken to them for a month. It was a week after the original deadline which has been extended. I’m glad I checked the site though as you’re right, too early to check up. Just hate the wait!

  135. Sugar of lead*

    When I was 18, I promised myself that I’d have my first professional job before I was 19–not unreasonable since I already had the basic certifications necessary to work in this industry. Tomorrow I turn 20 and I’ve worked a total of three months professionally. I’m still waiting on an offer from these people but I’m not hopeful. This is so utterly pathetic.

    I’m thinking of leaving town, finding a job in a random city as a waitress or clerk or something unskilled and sticking it out as long as I can. Maybe the problem is I live with relatives now; maybe I won’t be able to work as an adult until I’m truly independent. I don’t know what I’ll do long-term but short-term I’m tired of unemployment and I’ll be working full-time before the beginning of May, come hell or high water, even if I end up in another workplace full of abusive coworkers and crooked bosses, because a bad job’s better than no job. This I promise myself.

    1. a girl has no name*

      I would maybe try finding an internship and using that to gain experience to get a full-time job. I know that’s probably not what you were thinking, but it might be a relatively quick way to gain some experience. That’s what worked for me. Keep your head up-you got this!

    2. JustaTech*

      It’s not pathetic! It’s not pathetic at all! Lots of people, most people even, haven’t had a professional job by 20. You set yourself a goal and you didn’t reach it, but did you learn something? Like, your industry is more competitive that you thought? Or how to spot a sketchy company? That’s important too.

  136. Lindsey*

    Hi AAM readers!

    My boss has just had her second miscarriage – we are a small, remote team, so we tend to share a lot of personal information. She’s taking it really hard (and has been very open about that) and isn’t sure when she’ll be back to work. As a small team, we’ve sent her a box of chocolates, and she is going into surgery today. Would it be appropriate to send her a short “thinking of you today” text, or would you want to be left alone?

    1. Candace and Toni*

      Ehh, I’d want to be left alone right now. Maybe a day or two after the surgery, I’d be ready for a get well text or check-in to see how you’re doing note. :)

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I might send it as an email, so she can read it at her leisure. A text might feel a little too in-my-face.

  137. Candace and Toni*

    Could use some feedback from this awesome group! Mar. 8, I had a really great phone interview and the interviewer said I should get feedback one way or the other bc she hates when she interviews and no one gets back to her. I sent the recruiter an email Mar 20 asking for a status update since it had been a while. The recruiter said I’m still being considered but she wouldn’t have feedback for a week “or so”. Now it’s been two weeks – should I email the recruiter or should I wait? I have a feeling they’re interviewing other people and keeping me warm in case their top choices don’t pan out. :-/

    1. Not Rebee*

      I would follow up. She said a week or so, and it’s been that, so I think you’re safe to check in again. You can just say you’re checking in on next steps and ask if she’s got an updated timeline. if you don’t hear anything back, I don’t think you’d be able to follow up again though. In the meantime, mentally move on from this job and keep looking for and pursuing other opportunities!

  138. Not Rebee*

    Trying to figure out how to prepare for an interview that is purely for culture fit. This company appears to do a round one where you meet with the people in the business you would actually be working with and then a final/second round where you meet with all of the executives but NOT with the hiring manager or anyone else you’d have day to day work with. Looking on glassdoor, this seems to be normal for them, and the second interview seems to be all about fit – they are a small company so they can currently afford to have their executives interview everyone at the company.

    Problem is, I won’t be working directly with any of them. This is for a paralegal position, but I’ll be meeting with the heads of finance, marketing, the COO, and the head of IT – I’ve already met with their team in legal and compliance. What can I expect to hear from them? I worry that because their areas are so different from what I’m interviewing for that I won’t know what to say to them or they may ask questions I’m not prepared for because they’re coming from a different perspective.

  139. Lindsey*

    Has anyone taken advantage of an employer-sponsored Master’s degree? I’m not sure if I want to stay with my current job for another two years to complete the Master’s, and I don’t need it in my *current* field, but the field I’d like to move into, I will definitely need it.

    There’s no stipulations on the Master’s degree (i.e. having to stay a certain number of years or anything), but I know that everyone keeps saying that you shouldn’t go if you don’t have a very specific reason. But really, it seems silly to throw away a free Master’s (seriously, they paid for one of my colleague’s to get a degree in gastronomy, which is definitely NOT related!).

    I’m also only in my early 20s, so I’m not sure that I want to commit!! Thoughts?

    1. Alex*

      If you’re willing to put in the time and work to do, why not? My biggest qualm about grad school was incurring all the debt. If it could benefit your future career go for it. Even if you end up leaving your current job before you complete your degree, those credits don’t just disappear. You could pay for the rest of it yourself or put it on hold until you’re able to finish.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Yes! I am also in my early 20s and I work at a university. I am halfway through my master’s program. It relates directly to my field. I wouldn’t have done any other program; I just don’t like school enough to do a master’s for the sake of doing a master’s.

      However, I have a colleague who is applying to a program totally unrelated to our work. I’m not sure how she’ll manage it with a full work week (my classes are at night) but I’m also not sure she’s thought it through.

      Some of my coworkers have started degrees and then quit so they had to cover the costs themselves or drop out. I don’t think that’s a terribly good plan, but YMMV.

    3. Always Anon*

      If you are serious about pursuing a different field in the future where the Master’s is necessary, it could be well worth it to take advantage of an employer-sponsored Master’s degree. I utilized that benefit with my employer and don’t regret it.

      Do keep in mind that there can still be some cost associated. For example, textbooks generally aren’t covered by the employer. And if the value of the tuition exceeds a certain level, the value over that threshold will be taxable to you. With my organization, they would withhold the tax during the last few paychecks of the calendar year, once it was known what the total year’s tuition was. So it was important for me to be aware that my take home pay might be less right around the holidays and heating season. Depending on how long you stretch out the program, you could avoid the tax entirely by staying under the IRS tuition threshold for taxation. I spread my program over four calendar years and only hit the taxation threshold one of those years.

    4. sunshyne84*

      I would totally do it if I had that opportunity especially since it doesn’t have to be related to your current field.

    5. To Master or not Master*

      I would totally do it! I posted a few comments above this one asking if I should get a Master’s because I would be paying out of pocket. But if my employer paid for it – I would totally take advantage of it immediately without much hewing and hawing. Not many employers offer full tuition reimbursements anymore (especially without strings) which means you could also take your time to do it while working. My S.O. took 5 years to complete his master’s since his employer paid for it. He just took 1-2 class per semester.

      It is sooooooooo expensive for grad school programs and remember, your degree is yours forever wherever you end up going! Perhaps focus on where you want to be and let that dictate your motivation/planning for it.

    6. Red Reader*

      If they’ll pay for it AND not make you commit time-wise, jump on that!! My org is paying for about half of my masterses, and I had to commit to 2 years past my graduation date (which is fine, I love my org and my department and my management team).

    7. JustaTech*

      I did it (although they didn’t pay for all that much) and my job search is taking long enough that I won’t have to worry about the “you must work here a year past when we pay this tuition”.

    8. Halls of Montezuma*

      Do it! Even if you decide later not to use it, all that takes is leaving it off of your resume when it isn’t relevant. If you leave the job partway through the program, then you’ll have to decide if you want the degree enough to shell out any money for it yourself, but there’s no penalty for starting it and then taking a break (or never coming back to it).

      Also, your early 20s is the best time to get an advanced degree – the older you get, the harder it is to go back to school. You get out of school habits, you’re more likely to have kids, more likely to have larger work responsibilities to distract you from school, and life never seems to get less busy!

  140. Dienna Howard*

    Bad news: I woke up with the makings of a flu Monday and called in sick to my temp job. Later that evening I was told that my assignment was terminated.

    Good news: I have an interview scheduled Monday for a permanent full-time job, and will be using Alison’s tips to help me prepare for it.

    I’ve been temping since late last year (long, complicated story) and would love a full-time job with stability again.

    2. Dang*

      I’m sorry to hear that – the life of a temp can be really challening. I tempted for about a year and was relieved to finally find a full time job (and it was extremely challenging to interview while temping, too!)

      Good luck on Mon!

  141. FDCA In Canada*

    Fiscal year end! Wow, I’ll be glad when this day/week/month is over. You’d think we’d be better prepared, as it comes around at exactly the same time each year.

    But other than that, I applied for a job two weeks ago tomorrow that officially closed on Tuesday, and I’d dearly love to get it. It’s permanent, unlike my current contract job, but besides that it’s just very demoralizing not to be called when you really want to be!

  142. Kindling*

    This is a gripe rather than looking for advice or anything because I think I have it handled, but ugh. I asked for a title upgrade and raise to reflect the level of work I’m already doing about a month ago and it looked like I was going to get it, but because of the way my position is unionized, I now have to apply for my own job.

    This was my first time asking for a ‘promotion’ and now there’s a (very small, but real) possibility that because I asked for one, I could be out of a job in five months.

    Anyway, in all likelihood I’ll get the new title and I’m excited about that, but it’s fairly demoralizing to have to go through the process. I understand this is common in my company, and maybe for union positions in general. Has this happened to anyone else?

    1. Kindling*

      Oh, and because I realized this maybe isn’t super clear – I would totally understand needing to apply if this was really a new job, but if I get this new title, basically nothing about my day-to-day work will be changing at all. I’ll still be doing the same tasks I do now, just with a title that fits that job description better.

  143. confusedwriter*

    I’m unsure about a job offer. It’s for a company that employs freelance writers for mostly academic writing. The company claims these essays are for reference not to be turned in for grades, but the many reviews left by clients seem to make it clear the clients are indeed using these products as their homework. I’ve read all of the glassdoor reviews and both past and current writers don’t universally say it’s a shady/unethical company and many have been positive and said they’ve enjoyed the work. The company does have an A+ from the BBB. After all the research I’ve done, I don’t know what to think anymore.

    2. SophieChotek*

      I agree trust your gut. But if there are not being used for “grades” and for reference, it also seems like they should not be able to show you “where” they are being used? (Have you asked? What did they show you?) I mean, if they are for reference (i.e. for libraries), then those tend to go into encyclopedias and recognized data-bases usually?

      1. confusedwriter*

        They claim students use the essays for reference on how to write their own papers, especially for non-native speakers who may be having trouble with grammar, organization, etc. So that’s why is meant by reference. Clients do order custom papers for their personal use.

    3. Natalie*

      Ignore the BBB rating. That says nothing about the ethics of their business, only how their practices in certain specific areas (responsiveness, clear billing, etc) align with the BBB’s priorities.

      Essentially, BBB ratings are only useful information if they’re negative.

    4. Dizzy Steinway*

      I wouldn’t. Most of these companies are not legit and it won’t look good on your resume.

  144. Ivan*

    I started my job about 18 months ago. I joined at the same time as Jenny, who had been doing the same kind of work on and off on temporary contracts for the company for the couple of years. We both started on $Salary, with the job title of Teapot Designer.

    Our first full year at the company has gone pretty well for both Jenny and myself. We’ve been working on different projects so it’s hard to compare our achievements, but I got an excellent review and from what Jenny’s said, hers was pretty good. We’ve both been given small pay raises. I’m going to be on $Salary+3.5%, and Jenny will be on $Salary+2%.

    Due to a re-structuring of the wider Teapot department, my job title is changing to Junior Teapot Designer, reflecting my relative inexperience. The starting salary for this role is $Salary, so I’m not really affected by the change in title (other than any issues that might arise by being called “Junior” when I’m often solely responsible for large projects, and regularly have temporary staff reporting into me).

    Jenny, with her superior experience, is still called Teapot Designer. There has been no communicated difference in the job descriptions for these two roles. The listed starting salary for this role is $Salary+13%. Jenny is, I guess fairly understandably, annoyed that even with her pay rise, she’s being paid about 11% less than the lowest listed salary for her job title. She’s taking this to HR with the demand that her salary be increased to $Salary+13% so it’s in line with the salaries of the other Teapot Designers in the business. I think she’d also like to add her 2.5% increase as well, but she told me she doesn’t think that will happen, so is just asking to be put at the minimum salary for her role. HR have advised they agree it’s not right to pay her less than the minimum for her role, and they’re looking into it.

    If HR do what she’s requesting, then Jenny – who started at the company at the same time as me, with the same title, job description and salary, and whom I arguably out-performed last year – will now, in addition to having a title that implies superiority, be earning 9% more than me.

    I don’t like comparing my situation to others, but I find this hugely frustrating, especially as the business hasn’t given any guides on how a person progresses from a Junior Teapot Designer to a Teapot Designer. I don’t really like confrontation, so if it was just about the job title then I might just get on with it, but if I’m going to be paid that much less than someone I’d consider my equal then I feel like not saying anything gives the impression that I agree my work is considerably less valuable than hers.

    Any suggestions on how to play this?

    1. Jules the First*

      I think your first step is to ask what you need to do to go from Junior Teapot Designer to Teapot Designer and what kind of time frame is realistic for you to achieve that. You could also try for a conversation about whether it makes sense for you to have the Junior Teapot Designer title given the work you do. And is it the title discrepancy or the (potential) salary difference that bothers you? Would you be just as happy if you kept your current salary but got the Junior removed from your title? What about the pay bump but you had to keep your title as Junior?

      It sounds callous, but what Jenny is being paid is irrelevant – you’re not Jenny, and as long as the company feels they are getting value for money out of Jenny, they will pay her what she’s asking for. (And for what it’s worth, I doubt HR will give her that size of pay increase….)

    2. LawCat*

      I’d ask my boss about it. “I’m interested in moving up to a Teapot Designer position in the future. Can you explain how advancement to that level works here and any suggestions on how to attain that goal?”

      If you’re already doing higher level work, it couldn’t hurt to job search to see what’s out there.

  145. What's in a name*

    I have a common name that I spell an uncommon way (think Alex spelled Alexx.) I never get annoyed when people assume it’s spelled the common way, but I’m starting to get really frustrated by people continuing to spell my name wrong in email correspondence – especially considering that between my email address and signatures, my name is displayed at least three times. Is there a nice way to say “hey you keep spelling my name wrong”? What I want to do is start omitting letters from their name, but I assume that’s unprofessional…

    1. Dienna Howard*

      As someone with a name that gets butchered all the time, I hear you. If it’s with someone I have infrequent contact with I don’t bother, but if it is with someone who I correspond with frequently I point it out.

      At my old job, a co-worker sent me an e-mail addressed to “Dianna.” I replied back, “Who’s Dianna?” The co-worker apologized and claimed it was auto correct that caused the error.

      1. JustaTech*

        Autocorrect will correct my proper name to “disgusting insect”. I got a rejection letter from grad school that started Dear “disgusting insect”.
        What can you do?

        1. LadyKelvin*

          While I am sure it sucks to get things addressed to “disgusting insect” that has to be one of the greatest name autocorrect failures I have ever seen. I’m giggling at my desk.

    2. Collie*

      I don’t get misspellings too often (though, occasionally), but more frequently, my full name as displayed in my email profile is used over the abbreviated version of my name in my signature (think Katherine and Kathy). I try to ignore it and just consider it a perk when someone does it “correctly.”

    3. FDCA In Canada*

      My boss hasn’t consistently spelled my name right since I started here. I know it’s because we have another employee with the same name with the more common spelling, but I’ve pointed it out to her half a dozen times and she always says “Right! Sorry!” and then goes right back to misspelling it. So I’ve given up.

      1. Dienna Howard*

        At my last temp job, the team supervisor pronounced my name correctly at first (rhymes with Vienna or sienna), then started calling me “Dina” for some reason. I corrected him and told him to think “It rhymes with Vienna” as a reminder for him. His response was, “I can’t spell!” Huh?!

        I see spelling and pronouncing a person’s name correctly as a sign of respect, and it is frustrating when people can’t be bothered to show that modicum of respect. In the same token, hard as it is, don’t take it personally.

    4. Canadian J*

      “Actually, I go by Alexx, spelled with 2 x’s. Thanks!” Said in a cheerful voice :-)

    5. Asheley*

      I understand! If it is a customer I try to let it go. If it is a vendor or co-worker I try to point it out after the first time. If they keep doing it, I usually ask the vendor for more money off and get my revenge that way.

    6. Master Bean Counter*

      Preaching to the choir here!
      I’m tempted to start intentionally misspelling their name in my replies. But really I just roll my eyes and move on.

  146. FREAKING OUT*

    The team I am on is suddenly VERY short staffed just as we enter into the busy season. I’m kind of freaking out. So is my manager and most of my coworkers. The hiring process can take a long time and we now have 3 open positions. It has been a stressful week! How do you cope? I usually love my job but lately, it has been driving me crazy.

  147. Cassie*

    After a minor reorganization of our department, one of the part-time employees joined my group. There are a few things that she does which I consider inappropriate and would like to address, but her previous manager thought were fine (the employee has been here for over 5 years) so I don’t know how to bring it up.

    Example 1 – she is fond of using terms of endearment like “honey, sweetie, baby” when talking to other staff, students, and even sometimes faculty members. Nobody has complained about it, but I have heard offhanded remarks from other staff about it being weird.

    Example 2 – she thinks the fluorescent lights are too harsh so she leaves the lights in her office off so the only light is the glow of her computer (and ambient light from the hallway). Her job is such that she meets with people 1 on 1, and they are having to sit there in the semi-darkness filling out paperwork. She also has a floor lamp that she brought in herself, but she doesn’t use it. Can I ask her to turn on a light?

    1. Murphy*

      I think you could suggest she turn on the light when other people are in there filling out paperwork, but outside of that, probably not.

    2. Sugar of lead*

      As someone with a sensory disorder, I can tell you that when people complain about stuff being too loud or too rough or too bright, they mean it. Don’t force the fluorescent lights on her. Get her a small LED desk lamp and put it where the people filling out paperwork can access it easily.

      As for the pet names, just address it if she does it to you. “Don’t call me sweetie while we’re at work.” You could make a bigger thing of it, take her aside and say “I notice you sometimes call people pet names; that’s not appropriate for the workplace.” It’ll be awkward for you and it’ll sting for her, but that’s unavoidable.

      1. Cassie*

        I’m not sure what kind of lamp she has (the floor lamp she brought it) – I assume it’s a regular lightbulb kind. I could ask her about what kind of lamp she would be okay with using but how do I bring up “why” she needs a lamp?

        The pet names thing – she doesn’t do that to me anymore (not since the reorg). She does it to other people.

        1. Sadsack*

          Put it how you did here. When people are in her office, you’d like her to have a light on because it is awkward for visitors to have to sit in the dark. Any light will do. I think Sugar of Lead’s suggestion about calling people pet names is also fine. Maybe ask if she realizes that she does it, because she may not!

    3. whichsister*

      I am famous for my dark office. I cannot use the overhead light. Within 2 days I will have a blinding headache. I have however brought in 4 lamps for my office. (2 floor a desk and a table lamp) and I have a window but with no direct sunlight and keep the shades open.

      I get teased about my office because it looks dark compared to every one else in a while but when people walk in they tell me it feels warm and inviting.

      However, no light other than the screen seems weird to me. I would say she needs more lighting in her office (lamps etc. ) or needs to turn on overhead when she has people in her office.

  148. Internal Encouragement*

    An update from last week — I got a text from my supervisor asking me to come in for an interview next week. I had to make some adjustments to my schedule but agreed to go in and took the whole day off to do so. I had a time and everything.

    He called today and said no interview after all, because he hadn’t talked to HR about it first and they said they couldn’t interview me, that I wasn’t qualified (which was why I hesitated to apply in the first place but decided to go ahead after talking to Supervisor over the weekend about it when he again encouraged me to do it). He had offered me an interview before he talked to HR, who supposedly provides the list of people to interview. I…don’t even have any words. They’ve consistently jerked me around like this and I’m so, so upset and embarrassed.

    1. SophieChotek*

      I’m so sorry about that! I don’t think you shouldn’t be embarrassed though — it sounds like your supervisor thought you might be a good fit anyway.

      1. Internal Encouragement*

        He would’ve been managing the position, too. I really hesitated to apply because I was concerned about the very reason I was told I wasn’t actually qualified. I’m embarrassed I didn’t listen to my instinct. The HR guy knows me pretty well at this point, since I apply whenever I feel I’ve got a good shot. Supervisor told me HR Guy knows something is coming for me, but they’ve been saying that and frankly, it’s embarrassing to keep applying and to keep getting turned down, even after the interview stage.

  149. Fluffer Nutter*

    Happy Friday people! I have an interview Tues for a position I’m excited about. Their process is: 1. 30 min phone int (done), 2. online assess, (done), 3. 1 hour in person panel (next wk), 5. another 1 hour in person panel, 6. final in person which is walk around and meet everyone= don’t show up late with your pants on backwards and you’ll get an offer.
    My questions: I’m worried about running out of questions to ask them if I get to #5. it’s not a terribly complicated job and he explained a lot at the phone int. Thoughts? Also, the same person will be in every int. and others will come and go. I already sent him a follow up/thank you email after #1- how, if at all, do you handle ongoing thank yous after each other stage?

  150. Alinea*

    TMI story: I am very…regular…I always go at the same time – 7 AM give or take 5-10 minutes.

    I have been so stressed at work (7 AM – 3:30 PM) these last few weeks that my new time is now as soon as I mentally decide to go home. It hits me like a ton of bricks too, hahaha. Literally, as soon as I decide it’s time to leave, my digestive track starts rumbling and contracting and I have to run to the restroom. On the weekends my body reverts back to its normal time.

    The body/mind is incredible. Also, it’s not worth it to be stressed from work. Can’t wait till this is over.

    1. H.C.*

      Oh my OldBoss was the same way around 9:30am; sometimes he’ll “borrow” the Sports page from my newspaper (I put borrow in quotes because I always decline when he offers to return it afterwards)

      1. copy run start*

        I had a couple coworkers like that at an old job. If the sports section was folded twice, no one touched it.

  151. Lalaith*

    My company was acquired some time ago, and since the beginning my place in the new company has been a bit awkward, because they didn’t really have an analogue of my position in their corporate structure. This is an international company, and they have a lot of people doing my kind of work, but the rest of them are in other countries and their rates are a lot cheaper. For a while I’ve been hanging on by doing work for the clients that we brought with us in the merger, but one by one they’ve been leaving (which I think the former owner has been encouraging, since the new company has somewhat of a different focus), and I’m finding myself with less and less work to do. So I’m seeing the writing on the wall and looking for a new job.

    My question is, when a prospective employer asks why I’m looking, what should I tell them? Does some version of the real story reflect poorly on me, or does it sound reasonable? Or should I just stick to “looking for something new” (I have been at this job for several years)?

    1. Murphy*

      I’d give them some version of the truth. I think it sounds fine. Maybe not that clients are leaving, but that your role doesn’t perfectly match how the new company is structured, the role has changed since the acquisition, etc.

      1. Lalaith*

        Thanks :) It’s kind of awkward, though, because it’s been 2 years since we were acquired and my job just sort of… petered out. I’m having trouble with explaining (to myself too) why I’ve stuck with them so long.

  152. Gareth Keenan Investigates*

    Has anyone found themselves in a workplace where you feel your work isn’t held to very high standards? I’m struggling right now because I want to grow and do better work but I feel like mgmt is so preoccupied with other things that they aren’t exactly demanding when it comes to our substantive performance. For example, mgmt is very much of the “if anyone abuses flexibility we will take it away from everyone rather than manage the offender” mindset and they’ve been stricter and stricter about the few things that make this office an appealing workplace. Typically I can push myself to put forward quality work but I’m feeling my motivation continue to decline. I don’t think my work or my clients have suffered, I’m not missing deadlines or phoning it in, but I’m also not growing and I could definitely be more efficient. I do get some helpful feedback when I specifically ask for it but my manager is waaaay overworked and dividing her time in such a way that I feel guilty bothering her for things I could complete without her feedback. Overall, our office has shown that there’s very little incentive to perform well and almost no penalty for doing the bare minimum so the energy here isn’t conducive to going above and beyond (although I still try to do so when clients are involved!)

    Related question- when applying for jobs, how do you demonstrate your ability to handle more complex work than what you’ve had an opportunity to tackle? I had an interviewer explicitly ask for a writing sample that demonstrated a grasp of more complex issues but I honestly don’t get the opportunity to work on complex projects. In fact, I don’t think such opportunities arise at my office very often at all. I did get that offer (I offered a slightly more substantive sample and expressed my desire to work on the exact type of projects he was referring to) but I’m worried that this could hinder me in the long run. I’m pretty limited in my ability to volunteer on this sort of project (think conflict of interest, grant restrictions, etc) so how do I challenge myself when my day to work isn’t challenging?

  153. StartupLifeLisa*

    Recent acquisition is going poorly. New Owner allowed Old Management to promise everyone compensation adjustments after performance reviews (as most of us were underpaid before, with a lot of our comp in equity & equity did not end up paying out due to low acquisition price). New Owner conducted said performance review and gave most people 0% or 5% raises and no equity in New Company. This after Old Management said in front of the entire team “You’re all going to be very happy with your compensation.”

    This is quite the communication boondoggle and the team is torn between “this is a massive clusterfuck of well-intentioned people miscommunicating and cultural differences” and “these people are very smart and know exactly what they’re doing and would like everyone except the 10 people who got good salary increases to please leave already.”

    Either way, looks like I better be thinking about other plans. (I got 5%, but my boss had to fight for it, they had me on the 0% list.)

    1. SophieChotek*

      I’m sorry! That has to be difficult and shocking after being promised everyone would be “very happy.”

      (What are your thoughts? miscommunicationc/cultural differences or intentional?)

      1. StartupLifeLisa*

        I’m divided. I can see an argument for both sides. I think the ordinary ground-level people at New Owner’s company are well intentioned and pretty much just like us, but their #1 seems to be pretty Machiavellian and I wouldn’t be surprised if she intends to replace most of us with her own people.

  154. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    New Bee: You’d asked earlier this week what I do now, after working at the organization where you currently work.

    First, to clarify — I worked for the political/leadership development spinoff of the big organization, not the mothership itself. My background is in leadership development and civic engagement, not in education, and I’ve never been a K-12 teacher.

    I now work at a large local-to-me nonprofit that operates several leadership development programs. When I first came here, I staffed one of our programs focused on personal and professional renewal for nonprofit leaders. Recently, I shifted to manage our consulting practice, which drives its profits back into the leadership program.

    What are you thinking you want to do next?

    1. New Bee*

      Thank you so much. I found out recently there’s going to be another restructure, including my team getting laid off. While I could potentially join another team (and am being recruited by senior leaders), and it’s a bit demoralizing to see the lack of progress/going in circles since I started teaching here (I’m still in the same region).

      I really enjoy instructional leadership and design (and my background is in a hard-to-fill subject area), so I’m considering that, but my mentor also suggested thinking about for-profit coaching or consulting. I want to step outside of “the bubble,” so it’s helpful to hear from people like you!

      This is an amazing coincidence–is the acronym for the first org you mentioned also a name?

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Oh man, I’m sorry about another restructure! That’s tough. What region are you in?

        Yes, my former org’s acronym is also a name and rhymes with your username. Is that where you work too? (If it is, do we know each other?? I was there from 2012-2015 and there were only like 20 of us when I started.)

        1. New Bee*

          I thought so (re: the org name)! I don’t think we know each other, but we probably know some people in common.

          I’m in Northern Cali, and yes, the changes are going to be hard–for a lot of folks it feels like a return to what was happening before the last restructure, and I think it’s going to be hard selling it to folks who remember hearing how the last way was “it.”

  155. In Cognito*

    How do I approach my manager about a management issue with another employee she manages that I really need her to fix? The problem is my manager helped create the problem. Is it even possible? It’s a bad enough issue where I am considering bailing from this job.

    1. In Cognito*

      PS I am afraid it will come across as if I am gunning for this person’s position and that is totally not the case. I need this person to step up and own her crap and LEAD her team. I also need her to stop overstepping her authority. So far she’s refused all suggestions from her manager (also my manager) and her own team (not my team).

    2. Jules the First*

      I’d say that you need to decide how this issue with another employee is impacting your work and your performance. Once you know where it directly impacts you, this will tell you how to raise it with your manager – ie, Hey boss; I’m having problems delivering my monthly order of purple teapots on time because I’m not getting a regular resupply of blue pigment from Theon; how would you like me to handle this?

      If it doesn’t directly impact your work and just annoys you, then you have no standing to raise it. (Sorry….)

      1. In Cognito*

        It is having a direct impact on my performance and my resources. I literally lost a person my boss took from my team to add to problem person’s team, and then on top of that the remainder of my team was asked to do work for the other team. At that point I pushed back because there was no actual need, not if my co-worker was following the usual procedures. The workload they have doesn’t justify it. She also refuses to own anything, and we’re left cleaning up the mistakes, picking up slack, and being asked to find work arounds. It’s maddening.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      By making it about you, not about them. “I’m having trouble getting XYZ done in time because I’m not receiving inputs from Fergus on time” is likely to be better received than “Fergus isn’t handing me his reports on time!”

      This is not to mean that you go in to your boss as though you are apologizing for not being able to do something. It’s that you have a problem that you need her help solving. She may help you solve it in the way you think she should, or she may have other ideas (or she may not want to do anything, in which case you continue to weigh whether you want the job under these conditions). But managers generally respond better to unemotional, impersonal statements of a problem you need help solving than statements that sound like tattling or complaining about a coworker.

      1. In Cognito*

        I’m having trouble with that. I have focused on me, my team, and process issues trying to avoid making it about my co-worker but none of that is helping address problems specific to my co-worker’s behavior and attitude towards her work and everyone else’s. I feel like all the process improvements in the world won’t change how my co-worker operates.

    4. In Cognito*

      I should probably add at this point I’m having to come up with and work on process improvements for my co-worker’s team. That has wandered into territory far beyond my scope. As a manager and lead of the other team, my co-worker really needs to do those things. I have the expertise to do it, but it fits literally my co-worker’s responsibility. I have my own team to lead.

      1. Jules the First*

        I hear mission-creep….!

        What would happen if you stopped coming up with process improvements for your coworker’s team? I know how hard it is to let something be crap when you have the skills to fix it, but it is not your job and your are adding unnecessarily to your workload by doing it. Focus on the outcomes that you are not getting from the other manager and take that to your manager, and then let her figure out how to solve it. For example: Hey boss, we’re finding that we always run out of yellow teapot spouts, which as you know we get from Fergus’ team. Can you let me know how you’d like me to proceed when we don’t get resupplies from Fergus in time to meet our production deadlines?

        1. In Cognito*

          I know, which is why I don’t want to put the effort into it. It’s not my job. I also depend on this team to provide me and my team with vital services and support. My team’s work becomes very difficult with the other team failing to support us. We can’t make quality teapots without the proper moulds. The other team makes and maintains the moulds to my team’s specifications.

          For a bit today I was hopeful if the junior people on the Moulds team got proper training and documented instructions to refer to, that would improve things, and then I realized who would end up doing that, because a few years ago our mutual boss had given that responsibility to the Moulds manager, and the Moulds manager stalled for bit and eventually said she’s not doing it. She just refused to do it. That’s the problem I’m facing. The Moulds manager simply the boss no, and the boss lets it go. It’s been happening for years. Probably not going change!

      2. Master Bean Counter*

        “Hey Boss, I feel like I’m not getting to spend enough time with my team to effectively do X because I keep having to devote time doing Y for Cersei’s team. I would be easier for me if I could concentrate on my team. But if you want me to continue to do X for Cersei’s team then we need to talk about just putting both teams under me, and the pay raise that would go along with that kind of responsibility.”
        Quantify the problem and suggest solutions.

  156. Program Failure*

    A year ago I was asked to manage the development of a new initiative at my organization. It was outside of my field of experience and I was hesitant, but I decided to seize the opportunity… that was the wrong choice, but I’ve made the best of it and asked to switch back to my previous work at the start of our new fiscal year.

    When I said yes to taking on this project, I explicitly asked if we were commited to doing this new initiative, or if deciding that we shouldn’t do it would be an acceptable result of this year of exploration, and was told yes (that deciding not to move forward with the project would be acceptable).

    So here we are, getting to brass tacks, and it doesn’t look like it will be financially feasible. Time to find out whether leadership meant it when they said they were open to whatever we learned (spoiler: I’m pretty sure they did not mean it). Good times. Looks like my past year of work is going to have a big fat zero in terms of accomplishments.

    1. JustaTech*

      You aren’t alone. My group spent two years busting our butts on a huge, very important project only to have some high ups decide they didn’t like it and then, rather than just can it, fussed some numbers to make it look bad.
      About the time we realized what was happening half the team quit. Didn’t blame them at all.

      We ended up writing up all the useful things we’d learned.

  157. N.J.*

    My direct boss has been paying an inordinate amount of attention and to the everyday minutiae of my job, instead of providing any type of mentorship for or guidance on strategic, priority setting or important tasks. I can’t tell if she thinks this is my first rodeo (it’s not, I’ve been in the professional working world for 8-10 years), is making an awkward attempt at bonding or just really likes to focus on interactions that I view as meaningless. Am I crazy? What does the commentariat think her end game is? I’m not making much sense without some context, so I’ve included more details below.

    I reported to the director of our department until mid-December. My now supervisor took over as directing my sub-department. It was always understood that I would eventually report to her, just not when. I was “officially” switched to reporting to her in mid-December without any heads up. Fine by me in theory, I had been looping her in on my activities for awhile. But literally she was set as my supervisor in the HR and org structure systems and no one bothered to tell me. As she has been on string to this director position and taking on full responsibilities, and with holiday and other vacations, she hasn’t really been around much for me to interact with. When she is out, I can go to the previous director for guidance, though this person doesn’t really like to be bothered and has been dismissive of anything I need from her for awhile. Recently, I received a good annual review etc. so I know I’m st least meeting basic expectations for performance and communication. However, I also recently was blind-sided by several concerns both she and the main director have related to some of my job duties, boiling down to needing to shift my activities and priorities to a certain subset of work and quit dealing with another subset so much. It was relatively clear from the way they brought this up that : (1) they had been concerned for awhile and (2) they had dyscussed it more than briefly between the two of them. They never brought any direction or concerns up with me individually before this and raised several items at once. I pride myself on rolling with the punches, so I’m doing an ok job so far if folloring these new instructions and of not showing how much it concerned me to be blindsided. Since then, my director had a sit down discussion with me when I incorrectly categorized a leave request (instead of just sending me a note to correct the category) and wanted to tag along when I was performing a specific type of task that is impirrdnt but straightforward. But she is still barely around and doesn’t touch base or provide feedback to let me know if I am spending too much time on the tasks I’m working on, whether I’m adhering to what she wants me to do etc. and it almost feels like she is treating me like a newly employee who is too sensitive, needs guidance on basic items of professional or personal life (like the miscategorization of a leave request or being overly worried when I was 15 minutes later than usual bsck from a routine doctor’s appointment that occurs weekly) and needs a babysitter. I’m crazy right? This must be some attempt on her part to show that she is a resource if I need her? Or does she really think that a grown woman in her mid 30s needs hand holding on basic stuff or to be treated with kid gloves or that she needs to be my buddy or something? They said in my review, which happened after the concerns about task priorities that they liked my positive attitude and how I take criticism constructively and my focus on learning about my job and industry but the general effort from my boss’ end or the main director has not been related to just being straightforward and sharing any concerns, but rather to focusing on small stuff and making it impossible to trust that she or they will just tell me if I’m doing my job properly. I’m not really comfortable approaching either person about strategic guidance and office politics now, as the one or two times I tried that I was shut down hard and held responsible for other people’s bad attitudes. What should I be doing differently, I must be doing something horribly wrong?!

    1. Chaordic One*

      I don’t think you’re doing anything horribly wrong, but I don’t think you’re being paranoid either. I hope I’m wrong, but this raises all kinds of red flags to me. Time to start job searching.

      It could be that your supervisor is trying to figure out exactly what you do so that she can put it in a job description and teach what you do to your replacement.

      1. N.J.*

        it had occurred to me that she might be trying to see if I’m doing my job efficiently or something. I’m not sure that this qualifies as drumming up a job description as they already have one for me, but I’ll keep an eye out for red flags.

  158. AnonnieMouse*

    I have an acquaintance from grad school who recently applied for a job at my company. He’s a nice person and fun to talk to, but when it comes to projects, myself and a few other friends from grad school (so it’s not just me) found him to be a lot of talk and not a lot of substance. Kind of like a J. Pierpont Finch-esque character, although maybe not so extreme.

    He asked me about the position, so I told him what it would entail, and then he said he applied rcently. He me asked about where they were in the hiring process so I told him I’d ask the hiring manager. My worry is that he’ll ask me to put in a good word for him, and I feel uncomfortable doing that. What would you say in that situation? (Also, since I’m inquiring about the process for him, what if the hiring manager wants to know why? And what if she asks about his qualifications? What do I say?)

  159. Delta Delta*

    I had 6 interviews in February. Over the course of this week I got rejections from all of them. Such a bummer.

    2. Dienna Howard*

      I’m sorry to hear that. I agree with NACSACJACK. Do something fun and take the time for self-care. Hopefully you’ll get another interview and an offer soon!

      1. Delta Delta*

        Thanks! I’m a lawyer with a lot of experience. I had been in a particular work environment for a long time and because of some pretty toxic stuff I left that place without another job set up. I had wanted to switch environments – thus interviewing. I’ve discovered that I’m WAY overqualified for a lot of stuff that’s available. Meanwhile, I’ve been running a solo firm from my dining room table, which isn’t exactly what I wanted to be doing, but is enough to keep the wolves at bay. I think probably what I need to do is focus my efforts on how to make that really successful and if some sort of job comes along I’ll consider it.

  160. Oversensitive much?*

    I was passed over for promotion and now reporting to my former peer and doing my damndest to be professional. But I’m finding something odd. With this promotion, my new boss is delegating some of her former responsibilities to the rest of the team. Makes sense. I’ve been with the company for 5+ years, so I know a majority of the folks who work here, regardless of whether I’ve worked with them directly or not. When discussing the transfer with those affected, she said she would “introduce” me to them. I told her I had worked with these folks before. And her response led me to think that it was just a euphemism to describe the process. But, the way she’s “introducing” me to people makes it appear as though it’s possible that they might not know who I am. For the moment, I’m ignoring it because it doesn’t seem worth the fight and I think it makes her look unaware. But, I’m a little miffed because I think she’s trying to diminish the fact that I’ve been here as long as I have and may have perfectly good working relationships with people in order to give herself confidence. Oversensitive?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Yeah, I would let this go. She’s going to look out of touch. Let her. You do your job and do it well.

  161. Jess*

    I want to mine the wisdom of the comment hive mind for a work solution…

    This is the situation: in our office, we occasionally have people out unexpectedly on things like sick leave. When this happens, we have no way to do things like set Out of Office on their email so people emailing them know to follow up with a different staff member if it’s urgent, or access their email if we need to find an important contact etc.

    My thinking is that SURELY this is not an unusual requirement for an office but when I asked our IT Manager about possible solutions he seemed really stumped and said maybe set up a super-user for our site but that would be super complicated etc.

    As far as I can tell, I have three options: a) quietly acquire a list of my co-workers’ passwords (not REALLY allowed but certainly the easiest solution); b) if required get IT to reset someone’s password so I can jump on their computer if they’re away (which I think would be a pain for my co-workers); or c) push for a super-user to be set up.

    Ours is a small office – around ten people – in a larger organisation. We use your big standard Windows network and software etc.

    I’m positive I’m not the first person in the world to have this problem. How do other people solve it?

    1. Rebecca*

      We handle it by our managers having our computer passwords, and our Outlook program loads automatically, so no password needed. It’s not the best solution, but it works for unexpected absences. Another solution, if you use Microsoft, is to ask the employee who calls in sick to log in on Microsoft 365 and set their own out of office message, but that would mean they’d need to be near a computer, and not incapacitated by an accident or hospitalization.

      Personally, I wrote down my network access and put it under my Kleenex box, and I share an office with two coworkers. Last week, I was struck down by that norovirus that’s going around, and missed a day unplanned, so one of them logged in to my computer and added my out of office message for me.

      I know it’s not the best solution to share passwords, but we don’t work in an environment like banking, etc. that would require a lot of security.

      1. Jess*

        It does seem like just having a list of passwords would be the easiest option – we all have access to the same database with client information after we log in so there shouldn’t really be any sensitive data that would be compromised.

    2. Terra Firma*

      We make it the responsibility of the user to set their OOO when they call in sick. It’s easy to do from a mobile phone or from any computer, so it gets done most of the time.

      1. Sadsack*

        Ditto. I can access my Outlook from phone or home laptop. Where I work, sharing passwords is not done and is probably against corporate security rules if some kind. OP, you company should look into accessing Outlook externally.

    3. TotesMaGoats*

      What’s so hard about…”If you are going to be out sick for the day, please make sure to put up an away message on your email.” If you are really, really sick even a family member could log in for you. Times when I’ve had a bad sort throat, I’ve had my admin record my phone away message and she had my access code for that.

      Otherwise unless you are suddenly, extremely ill why couldn’t you put it up yourself. Unless you aren’t set up to access email remotely?

    4. Jess*

      Thank to those who suggested staff setting OOO themselves – I’ll look into setting OOO externally. There are varying amounts of computer-savviness on my team, and our work mobiles (we don’t have work laptops) usually use the email client (mostly Android phones) rather than Microsoft 365, so I’ll need to check into if it has the ability to link back to OOO or if I can easily get the 365 app on the phones.

      It doesn’t solve the problem if we need to get information that is only in someone’s email but it’s a start!

    5. Jennie*

      At my work, we have someone designated (usually their manager) who has delegated access to their email. That person can send a quick, hey Jess is out today, email or respond directly if there something urgent that demands a same day response.

    6. Colette*

      If it’s critical that their OOO be on, I’d go with the password reset. Up critical IMO means they regularly deal with internal/external customers and they’re out more than a day (unless the job is truly life or death).

      1. Jess*

        Not literally life-or-death, but we do foster care so the last thing we want is to risk ANY kind of incident occurring with a child in our care if we miss a message, or miss a placement request that we could have helped with.

        1. Colette*

          That qualifies. If you can set it up so people can set up their OOO remotely, that’s a good idea, but you should also plan to reset the password if they can’t for some reason.

    7. copy run start*

      I just checked my work iPhone and if you’re using the Outlook app, you can set up OOO replies as well. At a quick glance, looks like you have about the same options as the desktop client. I think this is the simplest solution if everyone has work email on their phones and wouldn’t require allowing web access to your mail server or creating another user.

      You can set up web access to your Outlook mail server and have the person log in and set up an OOO message themselves. This is how I’ve done it at past jobs, though I’m now going to switch to that app method so I don’t have to VPN in at my current job (there’s no web access). In cases where someone was suddenly out for an extended period of time, I believe management has had the person’s email forwarded to a manager and IT reset the password to get in and set up the OOO response. But only for sudden, very serious illness. If the employee is capable of doing it themselves they should.

      Please don’t ever create a password list or share passwords… it’s just a massive security risk. Maybe you all trust each other now, but things can change, can fall into the wrong hands, etc. etc.

  162. Lemon Zinger*

    Yesterday I was in a minor car accident in the middle of the workday while commuting to another location. I’m fine (and so is my car!) but the whole thing really stressed me out for reasons I’ll avoid mentioning here. I managed to hold it together through the rest of the day, but I woke up this morning feeling exhausted, fragile, and sore, so I’m taking a sick day.

    It occurred to me that the only reason I feel okay doing this is because I had nothing scheduled at work today. I have intense guilt about using sick days if it means I’d miss something at work. I’m sure others can relate!

    1. Jules the First*

      Heh heh. Oh yeah, I can relate – I have a gnarly eye infection which I absolutely, completely, 110% made worse by working from home the first week….because I was too contagious to go into the office but I couldn’t stand the idea of using sick time when “all” that was wrong was that I couldn’t see properly.

      Yep. I’m (temporarily, I hope) blind in one eye and felt guilty using sick time….

  163. Librarian Ish*

    A close relative of mine passed away unexpectedly on Tuesday. This person had basically disowned me because I was queer, so I do *not* like them. However when I got the news at work that morning, I was unexpectedly very broken up about it. My whole office now knows (even though I only told my boss; news spread :S) and now I’m getting all sorts of condolences and there’s an expectation that I’ll take bereavement leave (I’m taking off early today anyway, but I’m using PTO, not bereavement leave). A coworker pulled me aside and gave me a hug and then made the comment that today was the anniversary of their grandparent passing, so they knew “all about spring break grandparents.”

    I’m mystified, what do you think that means? We work at a school so I’m wondering if she was making a comment about me taking unexpected time off during spring break, like a student trying to get out of class during finals? I have no idea.

    1. Murphy*

      I’d be confused as well. I wonder if they meant the inevitable “I’ll be off for a few days next week” “Oh, going anywhere fun?” “A funeral…” type of conversation. That’s the only thing I can think of.

    2. Jules the First*

      “Spring break grandparents” refers to the (possibly apocryphal) tendency of students to claim that a grandparent has died a few days before the break starts so that they can have a longer holiday. Ditto the grandparent who dies the day before your term paper, midterm, or final so that you can have an extension.

      It’s a perception that makes life particularly difficult for those of us whose relatives have impeccable timing because a large percentage of people believe you are slacking off. (c.f. my grandfather who died four days before midterms in my second year at university and my other grandfather who died precisely a week before I was due to take a three week holiday to Hawaii in February, thus necessitating an extra week of paid leave…and effectively extending my ‘holiday’)

    3. Celeste*

      I guess you’d have to know the person, but I wonder if it wasn’t just true sympathy. Maybe the timing is always a sad reminder, or she had been falsely accused of faking a reason to go on vacation. It’s the hug that makes me think this. If it was contempt, it doesn’t seem like a person would go for a hug.

    4. PollyQ*

      Upon reflection, I think what she was trying to say was that having a relative die at this time of year can make some people think you’re lying just for a spring break, but because her grandparent died at this time of year, she knows that isn’t always the case.

      I’m also sorry your relative chose hateful bigotry over family love, and I would recommend you give yourself permission to feel whatever you feel. Emotions can be complicated, especially whenthe death was sudden.

  164. Asheley*

    Was I rude to my co-worker when he called to ask me if someone emailed an attachment this week and after forwarding him the email addresses to him (I was cc), I found him at his desk and asked him if he knew how to use the search feature in gmail? When I asked him he said he did know how and seemed really offended I would ask or be annoyed in any way that I had to forward him an email addressed two him two days ago. He has been here over a year but his computer skills aren’t the best. If it matters, on the org chart we are at the same level, but I am the most organized person in the group by far.

    1. Murphy*

      It drives me crazy when people ask me to send something again that was sent out recently.

    2. Sadsack*

      Don’t worry about it. You helped him and followed up. Maybe next time he’ll make more effort before asking for things he already has.

  165. Jessica*

    A post this week was titled “I love my job but hate the money.” Well I want to ask what to do if you hate your job but love how much you make? I love the money, hate the work.

    I went to school for six years to get my degrees and I have discovered that after working in this industry for six years, that I hate it!!!! Unfortunately, all the other jobs I’m qualified for in other fields pay about 60% of what I make now. What should I do? Should I quit my field and just take a job as an office admin (because it seems like that is all I’m qualified to do?)?
    Should I go back to school to get a degree for something else?
    Should I stay in my field?
    What would you do if you hated your job but loved the money?

    1. Cass*

      I suppose it depends how much you hate your job. Enough to significantly alter the lifestyle that your income provides? Enough that it impacts your personal life? Enough that you’d be willing to potentially “start over” with a lower level position if you move into a new field?

      For me, I’d focus on how much my job impacted my personal life. If I found myself coming home upset and unable to have a conversation that didn’t turn into me venting about my job then I’d probably consider moving into a different line of work. Any chance you can try and fake it at work until you walk out the door? Sometimes when I’m frustrated at work I try to remember Alison’s advice about pretending that I’m a consultant; I’m here to perform a service in exchange for a fee and then go home and do the things that make me happy.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I hated my last job but loved the money. I quit, and I took a hefty pay cut to get my current job, which I love (and that’s far less stressful)—haven’t regretted it for one second.

      Now when you say the other jobs would pay 60% of what you make now, could you live on that 60%? That makes a big difference in terms of what you should do. If you can live on the 60% (maybe not luxuriously, but you can pay rent and bills, eat out occasionally, save a little but far less), then I would take the pay cut and be happy… or go into a different field.

      If, however, you will not be able to even buy groceries at 60% of your current pay, then you’ve got to stay where you’re working or move into a cheaper apartment or move to a different lower-cost-of-living area.

      I do know someone who worked in investment banking for over a decade. She made a ton of money and put her siblings through college with it all. Then she quit. She was done. She temporarily sacrificed her sanity and happiness to amass a small fortune, and now she’s a lot happier in a different line of work.

    3. Asheley*

      Pay off my house and any other debt, make any major house /car repairs. Once there I would love like I got a lower salary saving the difference for what I make now. Once I knew I could live at the lower salary I would look for a new job. That way you are financially prepared for a lower salary and while you can create a timeline to know the job you hate won’t last forever.

    4. Snazzy Hat*

      To quote my late grandfather, “No one can pay you enough to be miserable.”

      Do you hate the work but get along well with your colleagues? Have you realized that the industry just isn’t for you? (That is, for whatever reason, and you can list each reason by rank in your head.)

      I’m a big fan of Cass’ response on this, first of all. I’ll add from personal experience in my job search that office administration is not all you’re qualified to do. That may seem like the best thing to do for your personality, but don’t limit yourself to it. For now, my advice would be to find a reputable staffing agency in your area — easier if you can visit a booth at a job fair, in my opinion — and just be frank with the recruiter. A great agency with a great recruiter will find you something that works with you, and won’t shame you into catering to stupid buzzwords. I straight-up told my agent I am not a “team player”, and she found me a kickass job within a week. My current job has me monitoring test-takers. On those days, most of my time is spent in near-silence. I love it!

      I don’t think you should get a degree in something else just yet. That may be an idea down the road, but not at this point in time. Is it possible to get in contact with your alumni organization either directly or on LinkedIn? (By the way, I’m with you on that “why the hell did I graduate with this?!” boat, but I also had NO advisement or preparatory counseling or anything like that. I always snarkily love telling the alumni fund raisers that no, I haven’t found a job in my field despite graduating seven years ago.)

  166. Gem*

    hello! I want to have a conversation with my manager about how I’m unhappy at work, and why. I’ve been fairly open about most of it, but I want to be open that it’s actually making me want to look elsewhere. I have a loose collection of thoughts/questions I’d like opinions on, and this kind of seems like the right place?

    1. Would this be an actually useful conversation to have from a manager’s POV? I mean, obviously depends on the manager but I’m guessing most people would rather know if their employees are considering leaving?

    2. I have a review coming up in a few weeks, but I’m tempted to have the conversation separately as I’ve been approached by a recruiter and there’s a job I’m tempted by that’s closing before my review date

    3. Related to 1.: I don’t think the main issues I have are actually going to be solved any time soon, so not sure how practical it is to lay out ‘this is making me unhappy, but the things that are making me unhappy are systemic and unlikely to change, and not by you, as other people have complained and smeg all has been done’

    Thoughts?

      1. Gem*

        I guess it’s just not wanting to blindside my (actually quite good) manager with my notice? You raise a good point (as always), that I don’t think there’s a good outcome other than ‘I’m unhappy, don’t be surprised if I leave’. I don’t want to give an ultimatum, but I also don’t think they realise how unhappy I am (and other members of staff, but I would never mention that).

        I’m not sure if we do exit interviews or anything like that, but again, that’s the company’s problem I guess?

  167. Huge Mistake*

    I had two job offers last year and I took the absolutely wrong one. It’s been a year, but I’d love to reach out to the other company to see if they have any available positions for me. Is there a good script for that?

    Basically how do I say: I’m so sorry, I made a huge mistake, please consider me again.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Did you connect with anyone at that job in particular? I wouldn’t go straight to begging at their feet, but it would seem perfectly normal to meet semi-casually and talk about possible opportunities. And I don’t see that you have anything to apologize for – taking another job isn’t an insult to them, it’s just a business decision (assuming you didn’t send them a letter saying you didn’t take the job because they stink).

  168. cc*

    My direct supervisor keeps asking me if I am interviewing/applying for jobs. A couple of weeks ago I took a Friday off and went on a trip and she later asked me how my interview went (I was not on an interview. I was visiting friends).

    About a month ago she told me that she would understand if I wanted to leave and that she can always give me a reference. We have had incredibly high turnover in our department so I think she knows that many do not want to stay.

    I don’t know what to say though. She keeps asking why I don’t look for a new job or why I am still here. I have already been applying for 6 months. I don’t think she realizes how long it takes to get a new job. I keep getting worried that she knows something I don’t know, like that my position will get cut or something.

    Have you ever had an experience with your supervisor saying it was ok to tell them you were job searching but then it turned out badly?

  169. smokey*

    I don’t have a question, I’m just happy. I’ve been with my employer for 6 years and have always thought we do several things a little oddly (read: stupidly). I got to work one-on-one with the new PM all week. I got to see what he did in a wide variety of different scenarios and he kept doing exactly what I would’ve done! I haven’t encountered that since I was with my last employer. I’m very happy he works with us now and hope he can change at least a few things to, frankly, the way that I’ve always wanted them done. Even if not, at least I’m not the odd duck out now and don’t feel alone in my opinions. My only problem is trying to not build him up too much in my mind. We do still work for a giant corporation so he may have no better luck than I have had.

  170. Raddest*

    The new admin who sits directly behind me is ALWAYS complaining passive-aggressively under her breath. I can’t tell how much of it is justified but I think the other, senior admin is about an inch from strangling her.

    Her superiors are always very soft-spoken when they reprimand or correct her, so I can’t hear a thing, but she doesn’t seem terribly contrite when she makes a mistake.

    I am NOT sticking my nose in, to be clear, and it doesn’t affect me at all, except for how uncomfortable it is to sense that two people sitting ten feet behind you utterly loathe each other.

    1. Hazel Asperg*

      Oh gosh, that sounds very uncomfortable.

      Would it be possible to say, “Sorry, did you say something?” in a genuine fashion and perhaps make her aware of her mutterings? She may be unaware that anyone else can hear her.

  171. Okie not from Muskogee*

    I work in law enforcement and am pregnant with my third child. I work for a medium sized agency in a large metro area. Each time I go on light duty, I am treated worse. This time, right before I put in my medical paperwork to go on desk duty, the city cancelled its existing policies regarding injuries/leave and began telling employees that they will be fired if they are away from their job for more than six months. On the job injury, off duty injury, anything. If you’ve worked there for thirty years and have 8 months of leave, if you use more than 6, you’re fired. (For example, another employee was in a car crash and severely injured. Although he had enough leave to cover his absence, he was terminated.) When I told my supervisor that I intended to put in for light duty related to pregnancy (body armor no longer fits, issues of chemical/lead exposure, etc.), I was told that if my use of FMLA plus any light duty assignment exceeds 6 months total (which it will), I will be fired.

    I understand the city has no obligation to provide light duty assignments for me if they don’t for those in like circumstances – but they do, and have, so that’s not at issue. I guess what I’m asking is whether an agency can cancel all existing policies and start handling these issues (related to medical disability of all things!) “off the books.” There is no written policy on this anywhere now. I’ve asked, my supervisor has asked – nothing. Any ideas?

    1. Buu*

      Do you have any laws against gender/pregnancy discrimination?
      I’d also wonder if you could possibly ask a question about this via e-mail, if you could catch someone in writing saying they intend to fire you if you take maternity leave that could possibly help you if there are applicable laws.

      1. Okie not from Muskogee*

        I should have specified – I’m in the US, working for a municipality that is required to follow all federal laws regarding sex discrimination, pregnancy discrimination, etc. I also just found out I’ve been denied a training opportunity that does not conflict with any medical restrictions, solely based on the fact that I’m on “light duty.”

      1. Asheley*

        Yes! You likely have an employment contract of some type. Read it with a fine tooth comb for how they have to notify you of changes. If your union rep doesn’t help or you don’t have one it is probably worth finding an employment lawyer.

    3. Chaordic One*

      Do you belong to a union? If so, maybe they could intervene and would be more knowledgeable about your employment contract. Or they might be able to refer you to someone who would be able to help.

  172. Buffy*

    I had a weird situation at work and I’m not sure exactly how to feel about it.

    I started a new job in October and was obviously introduced to a ton of people at once when I started. I’m by nature a more quiet person when you don’t know me, but I try to engage with people and smile when it seems appropriate. Fast forward to this Monday, when I was walking out of work and saw 3 co-workers (not my department, been introduced but never worked with) talking. They seemed deep in conversation so I just kind of nodded as I walked by.

    All of a sudden I hear one guy yell “Hey!” And go on a rant about me being “This girl who doesn’t stop and say hi to her co-workers.” I stopped and said “Oh, didn’t mean any offense, it seemed like you guys were deep in conversation” with a smile. Then he started loudly saying things like “This girl worked her for 6 months, bet you can’t even tell us our names.” I got extremely flustered and while I could come up with thier names after, def not at that moment! When I opened my mouth, he cut me off and said “No, it’s fine. Don’t learn my name, I just gave my 2 weeks notice.” I was a little shaken after this just because it seemed inappropriately adversarial. I didn’t mention it to anyone at work, does anyone have any advice?

      1. Buffy*

        Thankfully he is leaving…It does cross my mind when I go walking down the halls that I’m going to run into him and it makes me nervous. Which also annoys me because he doesn’t have the right to make me feel nervous…

        1. LCL*

          If you run into him again and he hassles you about names again, ask am sweetly ‘I’m sorry. Were you Larry, Curly, or Moe?’

    2. Trout 'Waver*

      No reasonable person would witness that exchange and think anything other than that that person is an ass. Don’t worry about it. Doubly-so since he’s leaving.

    3. Spoonie*

      Oh hi. Are you me? Literally, the facts of you starting are identical. I just didn’t get accosted awkwardly by a coworker.

      If it gets brought up again, just ask why they haven’t talked to you either. Conversations flow both ways.

    4. Murphy*

      That dude is an asshole, clearly. And is possibly BEC with the whole job, since he’s leaving.

      I’m similarly quiet when I don’t know people well. (I actually also have social anxiety, which I know makes me come off as unfriendly sometimes. I try to work on it as much as I can.) I would have had an emotional meltdown if someone did this to me.

      1. Buffy*

        I have social anxiety as well, and I was upset with myself for letting it ruin my whole day and affect my sleep that night. But in hindsight, I was proud of myself for not having a stronger reaction that I likely would have in the past. Yay, progress!

    5. fposte*

      This is a cranky guy taking out his frustrations about his current job on bystanders. Don’t take it to heart.

    6. HiLorious*

      Sounds like you caught a douche in a “What are they gonna do, fire me?” attitude during their notice period. Not worth your time!

      For what it’s worth, I probably would have cried. So good on you for keeping it together!

  173. Limi*

    Approximately a year and a half ago, I had an on-the-job accident and damaged my knee. It has been a fight to get worker’s compensation to cover the injury, taking approximately 14 months to get the worker’s comp insurance to cover it, including my hiring an attorney and seeing a state designated doctor who saw everything my treating doctor did.

    Now, here’s my question. I’ve been back to work on light duty since about 3 months into whole process, but I’m still having trouble getting anything done. Right now, my treating doctor has recommended surgery, but the only surgeon that he knows to refer me to in the area for this specialty has refused. It’s just dragging on, and I can feel my knee getting worse, which causes me to miss a LOT of work. My direct supervisor has been nothing but understanding, but HR has been on my case when I miss work. They’ve moved me off of salary, so they’re only paying me for the time I do get into the office here, but it feels like… I could come into work and be told I’ve been fired at any point.

    I’ve done my best to keep my paperwork up to date as far as doctor’s appointments go, but for an example… I’ve spent the last month and a half trying to get my doctor’s office to refer me to another surgeon. Just found out last week that they won’t, and I’ll have to find a surgeon on my own. No one bothered to tell me that the office doesn’t do that, they took the request and then just never acted on it.

    From someone higher up in the general flow of things, how in danger am I? What else could I be doing to keep my job? What else should I be doing?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Have you talked to your attorney about this? That might be a good next step. It sounds like you’ve been diligent in keeping your employer in the loop here and doing the best you can.

      1. Limi*

        I’ve spoken with him pretty regularly, but as he’s a worker’s compensation attorney, I haven’t asked about the “keeping my job” side of things. I think I will, see what he has to say. Thank you.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq*

          At the very least he could probably refer you to someone else if necessary, but yeah, I’ve got to think there are potential legal issues if they fire you. Good luck!

  174. Bananistan*

    We have an intern at work right now who is pretty bad. I understand that interns usually have steep learning curves and cost more than they contribute, but she has made a number of serious mistakes that created tons of extra work for people and made our organization look sloppy at best. For instance: she was stuffing envelopes for a conference, spilled some liquid all over the envelopes and didn’t tell anyone. I’ve never supervised an intern before (and am not supervising this one) so I’m wondering how normal this is? At what point would you end the internship?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      I’ve only had a couple interns, but it seems pretty normal. Explain the impact, even if it seems obvious to you, and correct them in a professional way. The intern may be more intimidated by the thought of confrontation with you than the thought of looking sloppy to customers.

      “It’s OK to make mistakes, as long as you fix them before it gets sent to a customer” is a lesson that many people take awhile to learn.

      1. Bananistan*

        Yeah, I guess that makes sense. My parents and my previous bosses were very proactive about teaching me that Surprises Are Bad, so I tend to forget that that isn’t everyone’s life motto.

      2. Not a Real Giraffe*

        This. I am currently going through this with my new coworker (this is her first professional job). Trying to get her to understand that it’s okay and preferred to own up to a mistake than to hope no one notices has been very difficult. (For example: She did not tell me when she updated a spreadsheet we are both working on, but when I asked about it, claimed that she emailed me about it but that “the email must have gotten stuck in my outbox.” It’s okay to say that you forgot, it’s not okay to make up excuses.)

  175. Izzy Legal*

    I have a teammate (Jane) who works remotely full-time. She is one of the very few employees in the organization who is permitted to do so. The rest of us have one or two days per week. She and I have the same supervisor, and I am one rank above Jane.

    My colleagues from other departments will come to me, in-person, or over e-mail, with basic questions about my teammate’s projects, often because I’m available in-person and am well-versed about the basics. But this takes time away from my own projects. I make it a point to ask my colleagues, “What does Jane say?” or “Have you brought this to Jane’s attention?” And unfortunately, the answer is always along the lines of “Jane won’t answer my emails or calls.”

    What are my next steps…how do I delicately bring this up to our shared supervisor without throwing Jane under the bus?

    1. Nanc*

      You’re not throwing Jane under the bus if you say to the person “contact Jane’s Supervisor and see if they can help you out.” As a remote worker, part of Jane’s responsibility is communicating, especially if folks are relying on info from her to complete her own projects. If you’re not comfortable doing that, try to gather some data and present it to your supervisor along the lines of “this week I’ve been asked #oftimes to provide info because Jane hasn’t responded to a phone call or email. It’s impacting my ability to complete my own work. How should I handle this so they get the info they need without me having to do Jane’s job (or something a bit more diplomatic)?” You could also couch it in terms of since folks can’t get the info, should you direct them to supervisor or suggest they keep contacting Jane until they get a response.

      It’s possible something is going on with Jane and supervisor knows about it, in which case folks need to be told something along the lines of FYI, for the short-term Jane will take longer to get back to you.

    2. LawCat*

      It’s not throwing someone under the bus to tell your boss what is going on in the workplace. “People are coming to me with questions about Jane’s projects. When I direct them to Jane, they tell me she has not responded to them. I don’t know the details of their communications with Jane or how much time they are giving her to reply before coming to me, but I thought I should bring this to your attention.”

      Then let your boss investigate. It could be that Jane is ignoring them, it could be that they’re not giving Jane any real time to respond, it could be that they are bypassing Jane entirely. It’s for your boss to find out.

    3. Always Anon*

      Assuming you don’t have supervisory authority over Jane, you should direct people to Jane’s supervisor if they aren’t receiving a response from Jane. It’s her supervisor’s responsibility to ensure her work is being performed in the way the supervisor expects. It’s better for people who seem to be having issues with Jane’s response time to speak directly with Jane’s supervisor. It could be Jane’s supervisor has provided her with guidance to respond to all inquires within 3 days and coworkers are expecting 1 day. The supervisor can then either reset coworkers’ expectations or revise the expectations with Jane. It sounds like you don’t have standing to do these types of things, so you should gracefully bow out and direct people to Jane’s supervisor.

    4. Chaordic One*

      I agree with the other commenters. You are not throwing Jane under the bus. If anything, Jane threw herself under it.

  176. Schnapps*

    Here’s a question: when an organization you’re applying to requires a cover letter, but says they only accept applications via their application system, is it necessary to do a full-block address on your cover letter? I’ve been digging up their addresses from the internet and using that, but I’m wondering if I can just put something like:

    General Manager of Chocolate Teapots
    Teapots R Us, Inc.

    ONLINE APPLICATION.

    1. HollyTree*

      I’ve never put an address on an electronic cover letter, whether by email or online application. I had no idea you were supposed to!

    2. Catbird*

      I’m a legal administrative professional and format a ton of letters that get sent by other means than snail mail. I would do a full block-address, but also note how the letter is being submitted. Something like:

      VIA ONLINE APPLICATION SYSTEM (underlined)
      Ms. Teapot
      Human Resources
      Teapots R Us, Inc.
      75 Earl Gray Lane
      Jasmine, TN 88209

      1. Schnapps*

        Thanks! That sounds good!

        This is public sector, and it’s generally acceptable to address it to “General Manager of Human Resources” or “Director of ….”

    3. Sparkly Librarian*

      If a hiring organization requested a cover letter, I would include it as an attachment with the online application. And in that case, I wouldn’t include their address at all. My cover letters usually just begin “Dear Hiring Manager” and have the job title and/or number from the posting in the subject line.

      I’m getting the idea from your post that you may be submitting a “cover letter” by mail or email instead of with the online application. If that’s true, double-check the posting requirements and see what’s specified. Hiring managers may find it difficult to tie a separate communication to an application in their system, and could discard an application with an attached cover letter, or disregard an email with no resume or application attached.

        1. Sparkly Librarian*

          Ah, so that’s where your resume and your cover letter would get attached. Just use the words “cover letter” in the file name.

  177. HollyTree*

    I start my first job* – soon. I accepted the role via telephone, but I’m still waiting for the MD to call back and arrange a meeting. It’s been a week, but the lady who I’m replacing did say the MD was up and down the country and she didn’t know precisely when, and apologised for it. That’s okay, right?

    My new role is a Marketing Executive, which will be a department of one. The lady I’m replacing was on placement from uni, and will leave after teaching me the ropes so to speak. I’ve done lots of freelance marketing before which is why they hired me, but I’ve never worked as a ‘professional’ before.

    Has anyone got any tips for me about making good first impressions, and any things to do to make my first 90 days the best they can be? Any pitfalls? Any tips specifically about working in a marketing role would be awesome, I’ve read load of AAM general first job tips.

    I’m in the UK, if it matters.

    Thanks!

    (*I’ve done an apprenticeship before, but that’s it.)

  178. Anon today*

    I am really struggling with staying at my current job. I have been here 4 years. I have 2 young (pre-K) children. My boss is extremely supportive, giving me a flexible schedule to work with my day care hours, and to maximize the time I get with my kids. My company offers a child care subsidy, which is making a huge difference in our monthly expenses. I like the work that my team does, I am paid well, I like my coworkers. I am bored senseless. I dread coming to work. I have weeks with very little to do and end up surfing the web. There are some days when I do not speak at all from the time I leave my house to the time I go home. I have asked for more to do, and was put on a project that has been temporarily shelved. I do Lynda courses, and have done online training courses specific to my position. I get great evaluations and have been promoted in the last year. Everything would be great if I had work to do, but I am starting to get very depressed. I don’t want to ask again for more work – it feels like it would make me look like my job is not necessary. I feel like I can’t leave, as I will not get the schedule flexibility or child care assistance at other places. It would have to be a bump of like $20K to make it worth leaving in the next 3 years. but the prospect of sitting quietly at my desk for 3 years is suffocating. Anyway, mostly venting, but if you have wisdom, I’d love to hear it.

    1. smokey*

      Is that how the job is supposed to be or are you just low on clients/projects/whatever right now?

    2. OtterB*

      Instead of asking for work, can you suggest something you would like to do where your boss could just give you a yes/no or make minor adjustments? Is there something your organization would like to have that nobody is working on – a handbook of something, an article for some relevant newsletter about something cool about your organization? Is there a coworker whose load is too heavy right now? Is there a professional association where you could take an active role and use otherwise-uncommitted time at work to do something like review conference proposals or organize an activity?

      I don’t know that any of these fit for you, but they were my random ideas.

  179. Catbird*

    I’ve had an employer seek me out for a position over the course of two months– I initially said I couldn’t make a move because we’re about to buy our first home, but time has passed, we’re under contract for a house, and the employers have said they can wait until after we close on the home because they think I’m a perfect fit. This is in the micro-world of law firms in a somewhat rural state; the firm that sought me out has worked closely with the folks at my current firm in the past. They’ve touted this workplace as a ‘family’. They offered me the job on the spot at my interview, and said “we can be sure that you will make at least as much as you’re making now” (plus 100% employer paid health insurance and other job perks).

    I’ve got an email from the sr. partner asking me a number of questions so that they can put together a formal offer for me– one of the questions is how much I’m currently making per hour. I’m not sure how to respond. I’d like to just skirt the question and instead state “I would like to make $ X per hour” but it makes me nervous. I’m certainly not a master negotiator here.

    Advice?

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      Put I would like to make X+$5 or $10 per hour. They want you, don’t let them low ball you.

      1. Catbird*

        Thank you, I like that idea!

        I’m in the midst of drafting my reply right now– alternatively, what do you think about this: I hope we’re in the same ballpark, wage-wise; I would like a slight raise, to $X/hour.

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          Too soft! Just go in with, “my desired salary is X per hour” And make sure it’s at least 10% over what you are making now. I’d shoot for 20%.

          1. Catbird*

            Jeez, you and my dad both said 20%. If I were on the receiving end I’d get sticker shock!

            1. Master Bean Counter*

              You’re out voted. The logic is, ask for 20% and you’ll get 10%. And if you get 20%, then you’re very happy.

  180. Anxa*

    I don’t feel like I am actually being effective at my job. I’m a tutor and in my last job I felt like I was helping a lot of students pull up their grades and more important feel more confident with the material.

    Now in my current job I don’t feel the same way. I do think that in my last job I worked with more students from poor-performing schools and now I’m working with more students with disabilities or other major obstacles. At the end of the sessions they seem to feel much better, seem to understand the content better, but performance is not improving.

    While the student body I’m working with is different and the level of support I have from my employer is far lower, I know some of it may be me. Or maybe it’s not. Some of my students can’t really read (they can read but there is no comprehension), others have major life stress, and still others just simply are very difficult for me to get through to. I’m not even always talking about the content, but even I’m also finding that emails, texts, and verbal conversation about where and when to meet to make me want to pull my hair out.

    I’m worried about how ineffective my communication skills are. In other environments speaking just becomes second nature, but I find now that I can’t be at all conversational and hold their attention on what matters. I keep falling into the trap of trying to explain concepts or give analogies or engage with students and I find that we are speaking two different languages.

    Anyway, I’m worried that I’ll either never become a better communicator for my job. I also can’t tell if I’m failing to help or if I’m in an impossible situation.

    1. PollyQ*

      Have you had any training specifically for working with kids with learning disabilities? I don’t know anything about it, but on the face of it, it seems like it would be a very different job from working with kids who just need a little help to catch up.

      1. Anxa*

        These are adults (recent grads to 50+), but I have no real training. Only a few have disclosed having a LD (and often don’t tell me what it is). The bigger issue is working with people that can’t read directions, do 3rd grade math, recognize patterns, or listen.

  181. Bespectacled Elephant*

    Hello,

    Any tips on finding new clients for a solo immigration lawyer who recently moved to a new area? I’ve joined a few organizations but am somewhat at a loss as what to do next. Also, for any other solos, how long did it take to have a profitable business? Any general ‘rainmaking’ tips would be helpful too.

    1. Manders*

      I’d start by looking at marketing tips specifically for lawyers, BUT be very cautious about pulling out your credit card right now. You shouldn’t be spending tens of thousands of dollars on a website or SEO or PPC at this point in your career (but you must have a website with a non-sketchy design and a clear way to contact you on it).

      Law is one of those fields where networking to get referrals from other attorneys can be important. Since you just moved to a new area, building a network should be a priority.

      Do you specialize in a particular language or area of the world? If you do, research your target audience and find out where they get their news and information. Are there Chinese, Cantonese, Spanish, etc. newspapers in your area? Are there cultural centers? Is your office in a location that your target audience will pass by often and can reach easily? Are there business directories of immigration lawyers online that you can get your name into? Think about each step along someone’s possible journey to find your business–how are you going to get your name and contact information in front of them at the right time?

      1. Bespectacled Elephant*

        Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I’ve copied your comment on a word doc and am going to answer each of your questions and enhance my current marketing plan with your notes.

    2. Delta Delta*

      I’m a solo attorney right now too, although I do a different area of law. I was with a firm for a long time and am also struggling with ‘rainmaking’ and figuring out how to generate business. For me (so far), I’ve found it helpful to participate in my bar association’s referral service. I also beefed up my avvo and linkedin profiles. I participate in a really successful local law blog (which generates lots of conversation although maybe not so much business for me); maybe that’s something you could do or could start. I have a professional twitter account and I try to keep it updated. I have really struggled with a good website and I’m going to try to drop something this weekend. Going the inexpensive route with square space or another.

      I do largely criminal defense and I know I rely on immigration lawyers a LOT when I represent a noncitizen. If you have any background in crim-imm, it might be a good idea to reach out to your local criminal defense firms and/or public defender offices and let them know you can do consultations regarding the criminal/immigration nexus. I know that several noncitizen clients who I’ve represented in criminal cases (and some family cases) have ended up hiring the immigration lawyer I consulted with when they had immigration needs later on.

      1. Bespectacled Elephant*

        Thank you for the advice, I’m adding it to my word doc. I have a good website (through squarespace – it’s quite easy) but have not been keeping up with social media.

  182. Spacecadet51*

    [Advice Needed] – I applied to a company three weeks ago and I haven’t heard from them. I’d like to get an update, but not sure who to reach out to. I tried looking on LinkedIn, but they have numerous recruiters.

    Someone provide suggestions on how to follow up?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      So you never got a phone interview even? If that’s the case, I would let this one go and not reach out.

      1. Spacecadet51*

        No I didn’t complete a phone interview. Just see the position is still open and application still under “review”.

  183. Rabbit*

    I was wondering if anyone has any advice on job hunting after a misdemeanor?

    About 8 years ago I made a terrible mistake and tried to shoplift a couple of pricey lipsticks (total value of around $55) – of course I was caught, went to court, and plead no contest. I honestly can’t remember what the judge said at that point (and cannot ask the lawyer I engaged, as he has since disappeared off the planet), but I took a class, paid restitution, and that was that. I’d never done that before and have not done it since, but I had engaged in multiple risk taking behaviors for most of my life – a fact that came up in therapy and long story short, I was diagnosed as Bipolar at the grand old age of 35. (Apparently I’m a textbook case but due to a history of poor health insurance coverage and a family that doesn’t “believe” in mental illness it had never come up before.)

    I’ve been “out of work” for the last 3 years, providing full time care for my grandparents, but my grandfather recently passed away and my grandmother is moving to a situation where my responsibilities will be dramatically lessened. At this point, I’m medicated, see a therapist regularly, and a psych as needed for med adjustments. I’m not just in a different place than I was 8 years ago, I’m very literally functioning as a different person – it’s miraculous the difference that medication can make!

    At the encouragement of family (ex-law enforcement) and friends, I’ve been considering applying for a position as a Dispatcher with our local sheriff’s office. I’m wondering if anyone knows how my history might affect that application and/or how I should explain it should it come up.

    1. fposte*

      Were you for sure convicted of a misdemeanor and didn’t get diversion? If so, have you checked to see if you’re eligible for expungement? That won’t necessarily solve the problem with a position in a law enforcement office, since they may do deeper background checks than others, but it would be pretty darn helpful in general.

      In my experience law enforcement hiring policies tend to be extremely local, so what goes in one county might not fly in another and we’re not likely to know how yours operates. I suspect that it might be a bar in some but in others could be just a discussable point. I would bet you’re likely to get asked, either in the application or in interviews, about any encounters with law enforcement, and the one thing you really don’t want to do is lie. I wouldn’t go into the bipolar explanation off the bat either, but I think saying roughly what you did about not doing anything like that since, being a completely different person now, etc. is the way to go.

    2. H.C.*

      A misdemeanor shouldn’t affect your candidacy much. First, most applications only ask for felony convictions (though if they ask about misdemeanors too, do be truthful about it). Second, while misdemeanors do stay on your criminal record, the severity (not that much, in your circumstance), history (8 years is fairly distant) and pattern (which you don’t have) should mitigate against any flags that pop up during a background check.

      I would be more careful, however, in explaining that act if it gets brought up during interview – esp. in light of your mental diagnosis (since you may want to keep that private & also reduce the chance of bias.) Stick with something simple such as “It was a regrettable one-time mistake that I’ve made in the past, I’ve paid my dues and am looking to move on.”

    3. Student*

      I think you’d be best off looking for jobs that are going to have less severe institutional reactions to your combo of little recent job history, mild criminal history, and mental illness. If you had a solid current job of 2 years with happy references, then it’s less of a risk, but right now it’s just not a realistic target for you. Law enforcement jobs, jobs with banks, jobs with access to pharmaceuticals, or major money responsibilities, are not the place to kick off from where you currently stand. Revisit the idea in a couple of years, if that’s really what you want to do long-term.

      There are lots of jobs where these factors won’t be nearly so big – start there and work your way up.

  184. Accidental Analyst*

    I’ve been a reader for quite awhile now. I wish I had discovered this blog earlier in my career. But I’ve been able to pay it forward with one of my younger sisters. She’s had a couple of hard years. I’ve given her a lot of advice based on what I’ve read here and encouraged her to read. It took about a year to get her reading. Things changed dramatically when she did. She decided to do something about her bullying manager. This was escalated all the way up to the state level. End result is the bully is gone and the company has expressed support for her.

    She’s now paying it forward with some of her staff/mentees. She had a former staff member who is being bullied by their current manager. My sister ended up giving the same advice/strategies I had given her. She also got her to start reading here. The mentee had been spectical but is now a convert.

    Comparing notes we both realised that we got push back when recommending the blog but that the same strategy seemed to work. Basically we explained that the blog helped to reset your expectations of what is normal. When you’ve been in a dysfunctional situation it warps your perceptions. While not everything is directly relevant to you the way it changes your mindset is really important. It also increases the chance that when you run into a new scenario you’ve already got a roadmap of how to deal with it.

    Tl;dr shout out to Alison and the commentariat for sound advice which is being paid forward

      1. Accidental Analyst*

        I didn’t get the impression that they thought it was boring. There’s a couple of things that I think it could be:
        * They didn’t think their situation was important so they didn’t think there’d be relevant info
        * They felt that the dysfunction made them important/special and didn’t want that taken away (because toxic situations can really warp you)
        * That it felt like another commitment or thing they had to do when they were just trying to keep their head above water
        * That it would mean they have to start addressing the issue before they were ready
        * It could be they felt that if they tried it and didn’t like it, it could change how the person who recommended it saw them

        Ultimately it could be that change and responsibility for change can be scary. It’s one thing to complain about a situation; it’s another to do something about it. Your situation may suck but you know how to operate within it. If you change things it can be confronting to not know the bounds/rules of the new situation.

  185. AVS*

    My organization sets aside a certain amount of money for each staff member to use on professional development each year. I’m torn between two opportunities, and I’m not sure how to decide:

    1. Language classes – these would be useful (once I was proficient enough in the language) as I could communicate better with stakeholders. Additionally, being proficient in another language would be really beneficial when I decide it’s time to job search and consider leaving my current organization. (I’ve done my research, and could fit in at least two 8 week sessions of in-person, group classes in my city. This would get me through “intermediate” level of reading, writing, and speaking in a language that I took in college, and have not used much since.)

    2. Relevant workshop – this was originally proposed as an opportunity that I would not need to use my professional development fund toward, but now is being framed as something that if I do want to go, I may need to use that money rather than having it funded by my department. It would be relevant, and could potentially help me develop professionally more within my current organization. I’d be learning about something that could inform improvements in my current department and inform future developments of new products/departments. (I should note that I’m currently supervised by two managers – one, “Jane”, is very adamant that this opportunity should be paid for by department funds, while the other, “John”, is more skeptical of its value to the organization. This is more complicated by the fact that Jane is transitioning into a different role, and John is transitioning into covering his current role and Jane’s previous role, so by the middle of the year only John will be my supervisor and also means that Jane has less “pull” in how department funds could be used for the year.)

    Does anyone have any advice on how to choose an opportunity (in the event that department funds cannot be used toward the workshop)?

    1. smokey*

      If the person who will be your supervisor is skeptical of the workshop’s usefulness, and the language classes will definitely help you in your current job, I’d go for language classes. It’s a huge bonus that the language classes can help you in the future too.

    2. Bex*

      Personally, I would much rather do the language classes. They are useful in your current job AND could be useful for many future jobs, while the workshop sounds like it would be most applicable in your current position/team.

  186. Bex*

    How do I deal with a flaky recruiter? I applied to a job at a company I’m really interested in, and their in-house executive recruiter emailed me a couple weeks later to schedule a call.

    DAY 1: she emails me mid-day asking if I’m available the next day to talk and gives me a couple time slots. It’s short notice, but I moved a couple things around and freed up two option. Emailed her back within an hour with my availability. Didn’t hear back that day.
    DAY 2: She responds, and says she’s too busy now and asks if we can talk the following day for 30 minutes. I give her new times, she confirms and says she will call.
    DAY 3: 20 minutes after she was supposed to call, she still hasn’t. So I email and she says she’s so sorry, but she’s running behind and can we reschedule for Day 4.
    DAY 4: Same thing. She wants to reschedule for Monday.

    Is this normal?? I’m getting pretty frustrated, since I’m swamped right now and I can’t keep clearing time for calls that don’t happen. I’m trying to remind myself that she’s the recruiter and I wouldn’t be working with her but I’m so annoyed in general that I’m starting to question the company if this is how their representatives act…

    1. neverjaunty*

      No, this is not normal, and it’s not a good sign. One ‘oops, stuff came up’ is one thing; multiple times means she’s disorganized and disrespectful of your time.

      If you really want to work there still, maybe tell her politely “I’m happy to reschedule for Monday at noon [or whatever the time is] but please understand that I have to make arrangements for that time.” If she gets huffy, well, consider it a bullet dodged.

      1. Bex*

        That is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. It is a huge company (10K+ employees) so I’m trying not to judge the whole place based on one flaky recruiter…

    2. Imaginary Number*

      I wouldn’t say it’s normal, but it’s definitely not uncommon. Sometimes recruiters are flaky.

  187. Victoria*

    So I have a bit of a 2-for-1 comment today:

    1) I know there are studies stating that women are seen as more professional/polished when they wear makeup. I’m graduating from college next year, and while I’m interning at a local start-up, it’s very casual so whatever makeup I do or do not wear is okay. But at a more formal office, should I try to wear makeup more consistently? Will it make a difference to my reputation or how people interact with me if I wear makeup some times and no makeup other times?

    2) At aforementioned internship, I’m having issues coming up with work. I have two people I mostly report to (we have a pretty flat organizational structure), one of whom assigns me the more boring aspects of intern work (Val), and Sophie, who is the company CEO and does a lot of the work that I’m interested in focusing on in my internship. She’s super busy, and has mentioned several times how there are things she wants to teach+delegate to me, but she can never quite seem to find the time to do anything. If I ask her for a project or if there’s anything I can do (I’ve suggested projects I’ve done before, but those have been delegated to our office manager), she always replies that I should come back later and she’ll have something for me once she wraps up whatever she’s working on. And then I’ll come back and she’s working on something else and she’ll have something for me when she’s a done with what she’s working on and I should come back later… And if I allow a longer period of time (like more than one day) she entirely forgets and I start the entire cycle over again. I get that she’s super busy, but I’m beginning to feel frustrated. I’m fine working here for another year until I graduate (great coworkers and hours) but I don’t know how to talk with Sophie about the projects that never materialize.

    1. LadyKelvin*

      In terms of wearing make-up at work, I do now even though for the first 29 years of my life I rarely wore it. I wear it because I am about 10 years younger than everyone in my field and office and without makeup I look 10 years younger than I already am so I wear makeup (and dress slightly more formally than most of my peers) so that I am hopefully taken more seriously. I’m also the only woman other than our supervisor so I feel like I am already up against a huge barrier and I’ll do anything to give the appearance of being someone to listen to. I don’t know if it makes a difference, but I feel better doing so, so I’ll continue. I think it will really depend on your circumstances and if it is normal for women in your field to wear makeup every day. I’d try to stick with the convention and not try to stand out too much at least until you are established.

    2. justsomeone*

      Can you throw a meeting request on her calendar and carve out some time to have her show you the things? That way its less organic and she can be prepared or set the time aside for you?

      1. Victoria*

        I would, except we don’t have something like that set up. But I’ll see if I can ask her the next time I see her in person if she would be willing to set aside some time for a meeting. Thank you for the suggestion!

    3. Imaginary Number*

      I think no makeup is totally fine, personally. I know several, very professional women, who maintain something of a minimalist style that really works for them. No makeup, hair brushed straight back into a bun, but perfectly tailored suits and awesome shoes.

      I think it looks much worse when someone wears makeup poorly (e.g. wrong shades of foundation, smudged mascara, etc.) vs. wearing none at all.

  188. MacAilbert*

    I have a few random questions.

    First off, how good does an unpaid intership look in the urban planning or geographical analyst fields? An elected board member of the local regional railroad (BART) is recruiting unpaid summer interns, as since my long term goal is to work in public transportation administration, my interest is piqued. I can see the value for grad school admissions clear as day, but what if I go directly into the workforce? Does having worked directly with a major public transportation agency win points with hiring managers, or are unpaid internships seen as lacking in rigor and seriousness?

    Furthermore, I have to interview for this internship, and I’m wondering about describing my current job (which I’d be keeping while working the internship). I work in the alcoholic beverage department of an upscalish bix boxish store (which means I’m expected to actually have a decent knowledge of a wide variety of craft beers, spirits, and wines, and the fact that I enjoy that is got me assigned to this department). Last time I had to directly answer what I do for a living, it was UK border control and I was just another Yank tourist, so there was no shame in flat out stating that I sell liquor. I don’t know about interviews for civil service or consulting firms, though, especially since the fact that I have a passion for alcohol is what makes me able to sell it. Essentially, to describe why I like my job and do it well, I have to describe how I love drinking and talking about drinking, and that does not sound like good job interview talk.

    1. PollyQ*

      I don’t know how well the internship would help with job-hunting (although I would think it could only help), but as a Bay Area resident, I can’t imagine that the BART folks would have any problem whatsoever with you working as a knowledgable salesperson of alcoholic beverages.

    2. Overeducated*

      I don’t think your resume should list whether an internship is paid or unpaid, just like it wouldn’t list your hourly pay, so if the experience is useful, the experience is useful. An unpaid internship at a public agency has no mechanism for turning into full time employment with that agency, though, so if you are hoping it will lead to a job there it’s not worth doing. Only do it if you really do just want the experience.

  189. The Moving Finger*

    Well, my bullying issue came to a head this week. She started yelling at me loud enough for the whole office to hear and said she was going to go to our boss and the big boss to complain about me. I said fine, let’s go together. She proceeded to…well, kinda crazy out in the meeting, for lack of a better way to phrase that–she made up a few details about me right in front of me (like I say inappropriate things to clients) and I was all, “If I was doing that, that would be wildly inappropriate.” I stayed very quiet, said my peace, and well…I hopefully think that our audience got the idea of what I had been dealing with. And I requested to talk to my boss alone after and I promptly told him she has a history of outbursts with me for the last half a year and told him the kinds of things she has been saying. He has been very sympathetic and nice to me about it so far. Said he doesn’t know what to do about it (sadly, again my request for “can one of us go elsewhere” was denied and never going to happen), but will come up with something. He also brought in a witness for the meeting and the witness was extremely nice to me afterwards as well.

    I don’t know what’s going to happen next week, but so far I am feeling pretty ok right now. She did herself in there enough that I think they at least have a clue about that.

    1. PollyQ*

      Said he doesn’t know what to do about it

      *massive eyeroll*

      Oh, I don’t know… tell her to cut it out? Put her on a PIP and make “playing well with others” an essential part of it? #%^*ing fire her, maybe?!??1! Sheesh, I am outraged on your behalf.

        1. neverjaunty*

          Agree. He basically just told you, “I will not manage this person or do anything about her inappropriate behavior.” You can’t work with that.

  190. Electric Hedgehog*

    I want to start exercising before work in the mornings. My company runs a pretty decent gym, which I can use for a minuscule fee. In order to have time to exercise before I start work at 6:30 AM, I think I’d have to wake up at 4:30 AM. This is daunting, but I really need to get in better shape and stop procrastinating. What are people’s strategies for really early morning exercise and then getting ready for work at the gym facilities? Is it more or less weird/awkward since the gym is at my place of employment?

    1. Accidental Analyst*

      I’ve only recently started a morning exercise program. Someone had mentioned the xbx plan that had been developed by the Canadian airforce. It only takes 12 minutes and increases in instensity over time. Because it’s short I can do it at home without having to worry about getting up earlier. Maybe start with something like that to get in a routine and the start adding in some gym days?

      1. Nicole J.*

        I second this recommendation. I also find I can do these later in the day if I want to, since I am terrible in the morning – after 4pm actually works better for me.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Honestly, I tried that a few times… it would go well for a week or two… and then I would just “sleep in” (i.e., not wake up before dawn), and I consider myself more of a morning person than most people I know. In theory, I like the idea. It means I have to take only one shower, and it means when I get home, I don’t have to worry about exercising, because it’s done already.

      In reality, I just can’t sustain that (maybe you can?), so now I just run when I get home from work, about 2-3 days per week.

      1. neverjaunty*

        Yes, this. If you’re not already someone who can get up early without trouble, it’s *really* not going to work long-term to try and drag yourself out of bed first thing.

        Also, the problem with exercise before work is then you have to have all of your morning-routine stuff (shampoo, change of clothes, makeup, toothbrush, etc.) along with you and then you get ready for work at the gym… ugh.

        What about going immediately after work?

        1. Dizzy Steinway*

          Actually, this can occasionally work. I used to be very much a night owl. Switched to a 5am wake-up due to a new job with a long commute and stunned myself by adjusting really well.

    3. LadyKelvin*

      I am not a morning person by anyone’s stretch of the imagination. But I wake up at 4:45 every morning. I walk my dog for 45 minutes then head to work for a 6:30 start. It helps that I have another being depending (and at times, demanding) that I get up. I’ve thought about running with her in the morning, but i’d have to get up even earlier so I can shower as well. The only way I get up in the morning is to get up as soon as my alarm goes off (no snooze) and to go to be early. My husband also starts his day around 4 as he works shifted hours so we go to bed between 8 and 9 every night. It kinda ruins our “nightlife” in that we really think about whether or not we want to participate in something that isn’t over by 8 and usually skip it, but I will say it has required us to completely change our schedule. Early start, early dinner, early bed.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      I’ve done this. I’m not on that schedule now due to other factors, but I simply make it not optional. I am going to the gym and getting up at 5 am. It doesn’t matter if it’s raining, I’m tired, feel a cold coming, or don’t want to. I don’t ask myself to make the decision every day; I just do it. You don’t ask yourself if you want to get up and go to work each day. Same thing. Eventually your body gets used to it and you can fall asleep at 9 pm.

      Getting ready isn’t that bad either. I pack all my work clothes and toiletries the night before so I just have to grab it and go. I find I can shower and get ready in <30 minutes post-gym, where it takes me like 45 minutes at my own house.

    5. Medical Student*

      I’m up at 4:30am so I can get my workout in before I go to clerkships. Here are some of the things I’ve found helpful:

      1) Turn on the lights as soon as you get up – you’d be amazed at how it helps you wake up

      2) Have some sort of noise in the morning (if that’s an option for you). I’ll listen to my favorite podcasts while I’m getting ready

      3) Have a small cup of coffee before you go. The caffeine should kick in at just the right time for your workout :)

      4) Lay out your workout clothes the night before

      5) Have your bag packed the night before (work outfit, shoes, etc)

      6) Purchase a separate set of toiletries that are exclusively for the gym. I have a “gym” cosmetic bag that I keep my shampoo/conditioner, lotion, perfume, razor, etc

      7) Get a cute duffle bag/tote for keeping said clothes/toiletries in! You’d be amazed at how much this helps :)

      8) Pack your breakfast the night before. I eat after my workout. Some of my favorite things are egg muffin cups, overnight oats, and “protein lattes” (coffee, almond milk, and protein powder).

      9) Stay consistent. It can be difficult at first but once you get into a habit, it’s amazing how easy” it is.

      Good luck!!!!

  191. Mimmy*

    Any instructors in the house?

    I just started a job at a training center for blind & visually impaired adults, and right now, they have me working as a keyboard instructor (i.e. proper typing techniques, which are useful for learning adaptive technology like screen readers since many visually-impaired people can’t see to use a mouse effectively). There is another keyboard instructor and she has been helpful, but I was wondering if anyone has any tips they could share? I wish the job came with a “How To” resource because I have zero teaching / instructing experience.

  192. LizB*

    Super late in the post, but I found it too funny not to share: I’ve been collaborating with another department in my company to get certain services for a client. The plan, which I have communicated several times in as many words, is to use my project’s budget to pay for the other department’s services via an internal funds transfer. The people in the other department haven’t answered a single one of my emails or returned my phone calls, but I have outside confirmation that the client is getting services, so I was going to follow up on Monday to see if they had the info needed to do the funds transfer yet.

    I just got a bill via snail mail at my home address for the services. They billed me, personally. Instead of my project. Even though I’ve said in multiple messages and voicemails, “Project ABC will be paying for these services via an Internal Funds Transfer.” I mean, obviously that means “I will personally pay for this out of my own pocket,” right? Obviously.

    Some days I just don’t understand people.

      1. Imaginary Number*

        Any chance they did it intentionally? Maybe they think the funding process is sketchy and are trying to CYA by addressing the invoice to you as proof that you saw it. I would write back and make it clear you’re good with the invoice but please send it to the project.

        1. LizB*

          I could see addressing it to me at my office, maybe? But sending it to my house is just too weird. We do these funds transfer to other departments all the time, it’s a totally normal process; the only reason I haven’t put this one through yet is because the department staff have yet to give me the budget code I need so I can submit the transfer. I love the services they provide, but man do I hate trying to get any responses out of them…

  193. Applicant*

    When a job posting says “Send resume to Director Arya Stark, Teapot Place at arya@city.gov” – does that *really* mean just send a resume? I am torn between “Always follow explicit directions” and “Professional applicants always include cover letters.” This is a professional full-time position requiring specific education, for which it is extremely unusual to not require cover letters, in a somewhat competitive area.

    On the one hand, I don’t want to annoy the director by supplying more than is asked, but I would hate to be automatically thrown out of the applicant pool because I was silly enough not to write a cover letter.

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      Resume as an attachment, cover letter is the body of the email. Mostly because it’s really lame to send an email that just says please see attached.

  194. Discouraged*

    Late in the post. #mutethisrant

    I have not gotten any responses to ANY applications, even the low-level ones. I’m overqualified for the crap jobs and underqualified for anything good (or it’s accounting). This week, there is almost nothing to apply to. I run out of UI in a few weeks. I have no idea what I’m going to do.

    –I looked in St. Louis; there is nothing better in pay. I applied to a tech writer job there I could totally do and expressed interest in moving since I have family, but even a city three hours away doesn’t want me. I don’t want to move for a low-wage admin job, especially not to a city in the state I’m trying to get out of. I only have enough to move ONCE.
    –There is nothing decent here.
    –I have no confidence I can get any freelance work and that would end my UI payments and then I’d be right back where I started from once the contract ends. Plus the ones I can do are too low-paid to actually live on.
    –No out-of-state companies are replying to me because I’m out of state.
    –I can’t afford to move and look when I get there. Last time I packed a bag and moved to CA, I had a place to crash. I don’t have that now, and I can’t get a rental without a job. I have barely enough to move into a small cheap place but nothing to live on past the first month.

    It wouldn’t be so bad if I weren’t trapped in this stupid house all the time with no meaningful human interaction. I do stuff, but it’s weekly. And who would want to date someone who can’t find a job? Also the sun will NOT come out. Gah, London in April was sunnier than this crap. :P And I can’t pretend I’m there, because this town is ugly in comparison.

    Queries begin this week. Since I have no life, I’ll be finishing up a last edit tomorrow (and praying my revisions didn’t trash it; how the hell do I know), and Sunday I’ll go through my agent book. I won’t send any until Tuesday so people have time to get through their mailboxes. So I have three days to tweak it. I got one person interested last year; surely there are more.

    Maybe this is all just the weather / hormone crap, but it’s hard to get motivated when all I can worry about is whether I’m going to starve, or have to take a huge step back with my next job in responsibilities, pay, skills, etc. I feel like I’m in prison and will always be and will never do more than scut work for low pay. I feel like instead of this being an opening in the Universe, I’ve been dumped back to where I was in 2012, and I’m just stupid for thinking it was any kind of positive change. :(

    1. CC*

      Ugggh, I feel that.

      I’m also getting no response (or a quick “thanks but no thanks”) to all my applications, and some weeks there is nothing to apply to anyway.

      When my unemployment stopped, I signed up with a temp agency. The place I landed sucks (they know that they don’t pay enough to get good people and they’re not willing to change that, so most everybody there seems to be some degree of either incompetent or desperate), the hours suck (evening shift means I can’t do anything outside of work except on weekends), but it (barely) pays the bills and I simply can’t afford to quit until I find a job. I *have* taken that huge step back in responsibility, pay, and skills (I’m no longer temping, but was hired on once I had enough temp hours because they think I’m the most super amazing ever!!!!! …did I mention the rest of their hiring?) and I’ve been job hunting continuously for three years now to try to find something even remotely comparable to what I was doing before.

      It’s hard to keep up motivation for the job hunt. So hard. But necessary.

      1. Discouraged*

        Yeah I temped in 2005 when I was looking, but when I tried that last time in 2012, I got NO calls and NO jobs. Even from the same agency. And I tried the other two and got nowhere.

        1. CC*

          Of course, I wasn’t doing an office temp. Not sure what sort of agency you tried. Warehouse temp, ugh. Second shift, double ugh. But I’m certified on 4 different types of forklifts now… which is largely irrelevant to what I actually want to be doing.

    2. JS*

      Are you tailoring your resume/cover letter to match the job description? Once I started doing that I got a lot more interviews. Also not sure if it applies to your field but are their any headhunters/recruiters you can work with to find employment?

      From what I read it seems like you are a writer by trade? That’s cool! Definitely stick in there. Even if you have to take a low-pay job to make ends meet, do it. There is zero shame in that. I have been in that exact boat when I left college. I had amazing internships where I performed well but they didn’t have any jobs open at the end of my internships. I ended up taking a job at the digital advertising equivalent of a call center LOL. Crap pay, crap company, no benefits, but my title was boosted to all hell and after 10 months there I ended up getting a much better opportunity. I also met a lot of cool people there who I am friends with to this day. You never know who you will meet or what will come of it. Sometimes you have to take a huge detour to get to the finish line.

      Keep your head up! I know it will work out for you, if you truly put in 100% you will see results, maybe not in the timeframe or way you expected but it will happen!!

    3. New Bee*

      I’m really sorry. Where in CA are you trying to move? I live here and have some teacher friends who sublet during summers–I could keep an eye out for any listings and pass them along.

  195. FD*

    I would love some helpful advice.

    I’m mentoring and helping to manage someone who’s fairly new to the workforce. One of the pieces of feedback we’ve given her is to take more initiative to solve problems before asking for help (her role is one that requires a high level of independent work). However, she just tried to pitch an entirely new project that’s well outside her current specialty. I understand her thought process as she’s done similar work before, but she also doesn’t really understand how complicated implementing it would be.

    How can I help her understand how to take initiative, but in the right areas? As an additional complicating factor, we’re both women but in a highly male-dominated field, so there are some gender norm traps that we have to avoid too (i.e. walking the fine line between being assertive enough without getting labeled as a b****h).

    1. Imaginary Number*

      There’s not necessarily an easy way to explain “good vs. bad initiative.” I think almost everyone is going to have some examples where they messed up one way or the other early on in their careers. I would emphasize the usefulness of keeping bosses in the loop without necessarily asking them for help on everything. Like sending you an email to keep you apprised of what she’s working on.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Would it make sense to direct her to take initiate and aim up to only one/two levels above her current role? In my experience, you have to be fairly well along the ladder before you can pitch entirely new projects- you have to understand all the pieces of something to a certain level before you can do that, normally.

      The other thing to differentiate is that if she doesn’t know something, she can ask for the information she’s missing (or where to find it) but that she needs to do the problem solving on her own.

    3. Overeducated*

      I’m seven months into a job in a completely different work environment than my previous jobs, and even though I’m not new to the workforce, I still feel like knowing how to take initiative in the right ways is kind of trial and error. I am slowly getting better as I learn more about how and why things work the way they do here. I’d say just give your employee feedback and time to learn from it.

  196. Imaginary Number*

    I have a question for everyone about etiquette when attending meet-and-greet type functions with big company execs.

    I get to attend two of these in the next few weeks. The first one is with a VP and is a small group of about six people (it’s a luncheon with a nonprofit and I got picked to attend because of my previous involvement arranging community service through them.) The second will be a group of about 30 people with our CEO (it’s a very large company and he’s a little bit of a very big deal.) That event is a happy-hour type thing that I get to attend because I’m participating in a particular leadership program (that our CEO is heavily vested in.)

    My question is: do you think it’s a hard fast rule that the topic of conversation should never stray from how much you love your job and how excited you are to be there, etc?

    The particular topic I’m thinking of isn’t particularly controversial. Both of these execs have been pushing for getting more women in technical fields, which is great because we tend to be very few and far between. They’ve set very high (possibly unreasonable) goals for women early entry hires into these fields. However, all of the women in these roles I’ve talked to have similar opinions: recruitment isn’t the issue, retention is. We have zero women mentors/role models in the upper technical levels. Those that rise high in the company almost always do so by moving over to customer service or sales type roles. I don’t get the impression this is intentional, but I do think there is an opportunity to encourage more women to pursue that path at the mid-career level (vs. focusing solely on female college graduates.)

    Do you think that’s an inappropriate topic of conversation for this kind of setting? What if one of the execs mentioned something like “Oh, that’s great that you’re in Teapot-bot Design. We need more women in that field.”

    1. Ruffingit*

      I think it’s perfectly appropriate to give your viewpoint about retention being the issue. If they truly are wanting more women in the field, then they would probably like to know what they can do to make that happen.

  197. Extra Anonymous and Incognito*

    Well it’s been an interesting last little while at our office. First we’ve been dealing with top people in local government threatening our livelihoods through the media (we are non-USA government workers) and then this week someone set off an IED in front of one door of our building. It was not during working hours so no people injured, just property damage. However it wasn’t the first recent threat and we’re obviously concerned about escalation. We are not in a country or region where bombs are commonplace.

    Does anyone have advice or tips on dealing with multiple workplace stressors that are out of your control and not related to bad bosses or annoying coworkers?

    1. Jules the First*

      Aw man, that’s rough.

      Lots and lots of self care would be my best suggestion – try and make sure that your life outside of work is running as smoothly as you can get it to, and that you’re doing lots of things which make you feel happy, engaged, and relaxed (whether that’s rock climbing, reading, cooking, or hanging out with friends).

      At work, I’m assuming that they’ve given you all training on recognising threats and IEDs and what to do if you find one (if they haven’t, they need to….).

      You might also find that a few sessions with a therapist help if you’re feeling like you’re having trouble coping with the stress.

  198. TTY*

    This is way late, but I have a question if anyone sees it…

    I’m a brand-new manager of a team that sometimes has to stay late without notice due to unforeseen circumstances. At most locations the company will buy you food when this happens, since otherwise you’d have to buy yourself dinner, but my boss is notoriously stingy. I’m planning to bring this up with my boss, since I know that the company budgets for it, but if he says no (which he has to prior managers) would it be okay to buy the team food myself when this happens or would it look like I’m undermining my boss? It’s SO valuable for morale when you’re making everyone miss their planned dinners, and my boss has never worked this kind of role and really doesn’t get it.

    1. Ruffingit*

      No, I don’t think you should undertake an expense that the company normally pays for. I’d say you should go over your boss’s head on this and talk with his boss about it. The company is supposed to be paying for the food and your boss is not following that protocol. I think you should talk to someone above him about it, but definitely do not spend your own money on this.

      1. Gilmore67*

        No, do not pay for it.

        Is the budgeted money supposed to go to feeding the staff for sure? I mean, just because it is in the budget is he obligated to use it? I am not saying it is OK not to, just want to know if he HAS to. Maybe your manager gets a bonus if he comes in under budget? Just a guess.

        I would approach it more like……” If you won’t allow this what else can we do for the staff?” And go on about morale and all that. See if there is something else that can be done to compensate. See if he can explain why he won’t pay for it and work out something else.

        I would not go over your boss’s head. That would lead to a whole mess of problems. Even though you are right about him being wrong and stingy I am pretty sure your boss would be ticked at you. And how many times are we talking about? Once a month? Once every couple of months? I think that is important to how to approach it.

        I personally would have no problem stating to the staff that the boss will not allow it. It is the truth and at least it takes you off the hook.

  199. Exhausted*

    I’ve been at my job a little over a year. My colleagues and I, all of whom are great friends and supports for each other, are exhausted. We are expected to do so much paperwork and manage our clients and step in and do other jobs when the people in those jobs leave and…well, you get the picture. We can barely manage to keep up and in some cases, we aren’t keeping up. Any discussion of lightening the load is met with discussions of how if we managed our time better, we could get it all done. Thing is, there is no time to manage. We are barely keeping our heads above water now. It’s hard. We’re all job hunting. And, people have left because of this same problem and made it clear that was why they were leaving. And yet, it continues on. I’m old enough and experienced enough to know this won’t change. I’m looking forward to a job with a manageable workload once again. I’ve been working almost 30 years and I’ve never been loaded down like this in my life.

  200. Tableau Wizard*

    I’m super late to the party, but what are you best tips for a first day at a new job. I have orientation on Monday and a training on Tuesday (I’ll eventually be a part of the team to teach this training), but I’m not sure yet what the itinerary is for the rest of the week. It’s been a while since I’ve been the new guy, but what are your tips?

    1. Dizzy Steinway*

      Take notes. Ask questions but ask them once not twice. And remember we’ve all been new so everyone knows what it’s like. Good luck.

    2. Kinder and Gentler Manager*

      Try to be conscious of how often you bring up your old job or company and how things were done there. We all carry relevant experience with us from one job to the next, and fresh perspective and ideas are valuable, but many new employees start out a lot of sentences with “At Teapot, Inc we…” instead of something like “Have you considered/tried…”

  201. Lia*

    I always miss being able to ask stuff on this tread because of time difference.

    But how do you ‘fake’ enthusiasm and passion when applying? I’m a student who is applying for ‘crappy’ retail jobs and I have no ‘passion’ for retail. I just need to be able to pay rent. But I am really struggling with seeming enthusiastic and like customer service is my life dream when I just need a job to survive. I’m not a bad person, I don’t have a poor work ethic, I work hard when I am at work and do what is asked of me, but honestly, customer service is not my ‘passion’ you know? How can I get a job a because I need one because I’m not good at faking ‘passion’ for something I’m not passionate about…..

    1. Imaginary Number*

      Nobody expects retail to be your life’s dream. They know you’re not there because you plan to do that job forever. If you say “retail is your passion” they’ll know it’s fake. You can seem enthusiastic about the job without saying that’s all you want to do in life. If it’s retail, they want someone who’s enthusiastic about a job that involves working with customers. You don’t have to convince them that selling purple teapots is the dream.

    3. Anony Oz*

      I know I’d feel exactly the same in your situation, and loads of others probably would too. Here’s what I’d force myself to do:

      First, maybe you could focus on thinking (just to yourself) about the more abstract skills you might gain on that job? Teamwork, commitment, learning about people and personalities …etc? I’d argue that there must be some good points why you’d like to be in retail over say, scrubbing toilets or . If you can figure out what those reasons are you might really feel a little (or maybe a whole lot) more enthusiastic. That kind of thinking ahead of your interview will help you appear to have an enthusiastic attitude (even if it’s because of what you’ll get out of the job rather than the employer).

      Then maybe figure out what kind of qualities they’re looking for in the role? Maybe customer service isn’t the only thing they want from a candidate? They might want problem solving skills. Or some other quality or skill you do like using in a job. Highlight the things you can offer that you ARE passionate about.

      I would probably steer clear of feigning any outright enthusiasm, like if you absolutely knew you despised customer service, maybe just say you’re able to confidently meet customers needs. (It’s a bit hard to suggest more without more knowledge about the type of retail role – like is is it checkout chick/guy, shelving, stock control, fashion, department store etc) but good luck and I’m sure other readers here also have some good suggestions . :)

  202. junior employee*

    I’m applying for a scholarship for master’s that requires leadership skills. The thing is, I’ve just been working for less than 2 years, so my leadership capacity hasn’t been proven yet. Any idea how to explain my leadership at work, despite my junior role?

    1. New Bee*

      Can you talk about a project you were majorly responsible for, or a time you had to laterally manage (since I imagine you might not have supervisory experience) towards an outcome? They may also be willing to consider your college leadership if you are a recent graduate.

      1. junior employee*

        I led a media event once. It’s hard to prove my leadership because I did like 80% of the event and other staff just helped on the D-day (because I couldn’t arrange logistics while being an MC and live-tweeting and photographing at the same time) so I didn’t really manage anyone. I’ve considered telling them my college leadership but some scholarship alumni advised that the scholarship cares more about my professional career.

        In the end I might just tell them about the media event experience though it’s not as strong as I expect it could be. Thanks for answering!

  203. NoMoreFirstTimeCommenter*

    If someone actually reads this far, I would like to ask something about an interview question I got last week. I was asked: On a scale of 1 to 10, how interested are you in this job, compared to other jobs you’ve applied to? I refused to give a number because I hadn’t had other interviews recently so for any other jobs I only have the information posted in the ad, which isn’t always a lot. Did I ruin my changes by doing that? The interviewer seemed to care more about my level of interest for the job than my actual skills, judged by the other questions too, but none of them was as weird as this one. Is this normal or a big red flag, considering that the job is only a few months (with possibility to become permanent after that if the company still needs more people in this role) and the job description probably isn’t the biggest dream ever for that many people? I’m unemployed at the moment so I can’t be too picky about where I apply, but I’m serious about my applications and I believe I could do a good job in this role, even though I’m not full of deep passion for it!

    1. Oh Fed*

      This is an odd/weak interview question. Since you mention that it seemed important to the interviewer, it may have been a dealer-breaker that you didn’t answer it…but it also exposed the reality that the culture may not have been a very good fit.

  204. AnonICannot*

    How can I get out of call center work? I worked in a call center for several years while earning a teaching degree and later graduating with honors. I did well in my job and received good reviews. After I finished school, I learned the hard way that teaching wasn’t for me. I went back to call center work because I needed to earn a living with benefits… I never had health insurance while teaching . Working in the call center gave me medical benefits and the ability to start repaying my student loans… moving towards financial freedom!

    But I hate working in a call center and being tied to a phone all day, reading from a script, working like a machine (repetitive phone calls with the same questions), being micromanaged constantly, having my restroom breaks tracked. There’s no autonomy whatsoever and it’s the same repetitive task, all day long, like a modern day assembly line. I’m grateful to have a job, but I hate it. I work rotating shifts, which is exhausting (close one night, then open the next morning) and add to that an occasional 10 hour day for business need.

    I also have limitations on my job search – for medical reasons, I can’t take any job that requires driving. This eliminates many positions, including one as an HR recruiting assistant that I had a phone screen for (it went well, but I couldn’t go further in the process because the role required driving).

    So… any suggestions as to how I might find more rewarding work? I have a degree in education, 5 years of customer service experience, and experience as a paid ghostwriter. I’m not looking for a dream job, just something that will give me a little more fulfillment… or at least the ability to go to the bathroom as I please.

    Thank you for any insight.

    1. Jules the First*

      I’d start with Cal Newport’s book ‘Study Hacks’ which focuses on making effective use of limited study time. Also worth taking Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies quiz to find out whether you’re the kind of person who will benefit from having external accountability – if you’re an obliger, you may need external motivation to help you stay on schedule, but if you’re a rebel, an external motivator will be a disaster…

      1. Jules the First*

        Whoops…that was meant for Anonyby.

        To actually answer your question, it sounds like you could be a great fit for an in-house training and development manager or trainer (though trainers usually need to be a bit more mobile). And just because one HR Assistant job needed to be able to drive, don’t assume they all will – I’ve never needed my HR team to drive.

  205. JS*

    Job offer help! Please! I have 2 offers I am fielding I need to make a decision on my Monday. One is from a very well known (on Mad Men) Creative Agency and the other is a network cable giant (news, premium entertainment, cable provider). Both pay pretty much the same (agency higher no bonus, broadcasting 5k lower but 5% bonus, so it nets out). Benefits in general are much better at broadcasting but the work and day to day seems more exciting at agency. Job security is definitely better at broadcasting network but they have super high retention so opportunities might be limited, agency is always shifting so I may get promoted/exposure more easily but with more risks and longer working hours. I have worked at both agency and networks before so I have experience in both places and there is pros and cons to each. Which job would you all choose?

    1. Chaordic One*

      This is a difficult decision.

      If it were me I would probably, at least partly, base the decision on my age. If I were still fairly young, say under 40, I’d go with the Creative Agency to get the experience that would, hopefully, help me down the road. If and when you get laid-off you’re still fairly young and will have an easier time finding another job. OTOH, If I were over 50 or so, I’d be looking for stability and a chance to build up my 401K, so I’d probably go with the network job.

      Aside from these kinds of considerations, you should really think about which kind of work you like doing best, as well as what you’re really best at doing.

      Also, consider the company’s culture and and your future coworkers. Your coworkers can make or break your career. (Like you don’t have to be best friends with them, but they should be competent and easy to get along with. If they’re actually good people, that’s a bonus.)

      1. JS*

        Thanks I am almost 30. But my resume is a bit choppy (with freelance/contract work) and I get that looks weird to potential employers since 80% of my resume is jobs a 7mos-1 year and honestly I am tired of looking for work LOL. Tbh, I am leaning towards the network only because I’ve met 6 people there (including the VP of the department) and they all were very excited and all seem great to work with. The agency was the more stiff interview and after a single 30 min convos with a senior manager and SVP I got a job offer. I know nothing of the team who else I will be working with, or anything. I think of that as walking into the lions den a bit but if I didn’t have the network offer on the table I know I wouldn’t hesitate taking the agency job. Thanks for the advice!! Its helpful

    2. smokey*

      I’d pick by office culture. If I really liked both I’d pick broadcasting because I like benefits and high retention.

      1. JS*

        Yeah the 401k in broadcasting is over double the employer contribution, LOL! I also no little to nothing about agency culture since I got offered the job after one interview with 2 people (not even a phone call before that and each interview was 30 min since they both had hard stops). Broadcasting position I had 4 rounds of interviews so I am pretty confident I would enjoy the culture.

        1. Chaordic One*

          While, they both made offers, the Broadcasting people seem like they really, really want you (which is a very good sign).

  206. sgac*

    Can I post a Good Boss story?

    I work part time and on a flexible schedule. Last week I turned up for an afternoon’s work painting a teapot, as pre-arranged. I expected to find the teapot finished and sitting on my desk waiting for me. It was not, and the person who was building it was out to lunch. Reluctantly I got on with other things. At length my coworker came back from lunch and told me that the teapot wasn’t ready yet, but I could paint the lid while she finished. I did so, gave it back to her, and then ‘got on with other things’. Only I didn’t have other things to do, so I pretended to be busy on the most innocuous websites I could think of (I am always terrified of being caught somewhere NSFW).

    It was nearly 4pm by the time my coworker finally handed the teapot over to me; I had arrived at 1. We had previously agreed that painting the teapot would take me all afternoon. There was a deadline and I was unable to come in the next morning to finish it. I said that I could stay late past my usual time of 5pm, and our manager came over and okayed it for me to stay until the 6pm bus home.

    I have never painted so fast. I finished the teapot at 6:10pm, grabbed some dinner and got on the 7pm bus, which is the last bus for the night. (There’s no one who can collect me, and a taxi home would cost $80.) It was cold and raining. I didn’t have a jacket or a torch for the walk home from the bustop because I’d expected to get home before dark and my usual bus lets me off almost outside my door. I got home at 8:15pm.

    Yesterday I asked to speak to my boss about the incident. I said that while I wasn’t unwilling to stay late on occasion, I would like some warning, as far in advance as possible, that it might be necessary. My boss agreed that what had happened was unacceptable and said she was glad I’d come to talk about it. She was concerned that she had asked me to work late in the middle of the room where everyone was present and hadn’t been given me enough opportunity to say no, though I had in fact volunteered first.

    We’re going to draw up a document, which everyone in the office will agree to, laying out expectations for having me work late. I asked if they would pay my taxi fare if I miss the last bus and she said yes. She also said that I would have been entitled to stop in time for the 6pm bus and leave the work unfinished, but I pointed out that if teapots go out with sloppy paintwork it reflects badly on me, since that’s the thing I’m best known for and it’s a small town.

    I didn’t lay too much emphasis on my co-worker’s lateness causing all this, since I know this teapot was a monster project that she’d been working hard on. I think everyone’s smart enough to figure out for themselves she has to take most of the blame for this. We’ve just embarked on another massive project, with tough deadlines, which she and I will be working together closely on. It will be interesting to see what happens…

    1. mb*

      That kind of thing is the worst. I’ve been in a number of similar situations and am so happy your boss was supportive when you came to her.

      Some smaller/newer work cultures (yours doesn’t seem one of them, thankfully) have a mentality of “we’re all adults/we all like each other, we’re flexible and free and can work things out as needed,” and as a consequence tend to bristle at the suggestion to draw up a document or policy for this sort of thing. But late work is very much one of those issues that really needs specifics decided ahead of time.

  207. urban teacher*

    Long time teacher now in an MPA program. I am looking for a development job and not sure how to address the fact I’d be willing to start at an associate level. Does anyone have suggestions of how to put it in a cover letter? I would like more experience and am willing to take a pay cut to get it. I’ve volunteered and fundraised on the street but it’s not the same.

    1. Audiophile*

      I fell into development, so ymmv. I volunteered remotely with an organization and this helped me land interviews and subsequent jobs. In my case the volunteer role was social media based, because I was looking to work in communications and most places wanted social media experience. Look on volunteer match and Idealist, also check out local organizations that may need development help. Then use that as a springboard to apply for development roles. If you’ve done any kind of fundraising in your classroom, that is also worth noting. I don’t think it will be as hard as you think.

      I was ridiculously underpaid in my previous development roles, largely because I didn’t know any better. I’ve just now landed a decent paying development role.

      Good luck!

  208. Anonyby*

    Rather late, but hopefully someone sees this.

    So if I want to advance in the direction my career is going, I need to get a certain license. I signed up for a set of self-study classes in order to get the license, and I could use some study-while-working tips. Last time I had classes, it was as a full-time college student, and I’ve never had self-study.

    Looking at the two text books for the first class is overwhelming me!

    1. Chaordic One*

      Do you live by yourself? Do you have a partner? Children?

      Even if you live by yourself, having the discipline to set everything else aside and to sit down at your desk (or your kitchen table) can be daunting. If you have a partner, hopefully he or she will help you by taking care of the children.

      In either situation, it might be helpful for you if could go to someplace to study. I like to go to my local library and I force myself to sit down at the end of one of the big tables and do my reading and take notes there. Some libraries I’ve been to have small study rooms that you can reserve and study in by yourself with no distractions.

      1. Kate in Scotland*

        Coming late to this, but I totally agree with going somewhere to study. I’ve been sitting professional exams for the last 4.5 years (ugh). I studied for the first course at home. It completely took over my life and I got awful neck pain and headaches from poor ergonomics.
        Since then, I’ve always studied in my office. I have a good ergonomic setup there and I can walk away from it.
        I find having a schedule/routine really helps. I study on a Saturday morning, and for an hour after work most weekdays.
        If I did have to study at home again, I’d set up a study location and a schedule there.

      2. Anonyby*

        I live with my Dad & his gf, no kids of my own.

        I wish I had somewhere in the house to sit. I don’t have a desk, and ever since Dad took up vaping he took over the kitchen table (my first choice for studying). I’ve been very annoyed at that, since it makes a lot of things more difficult for me.

        I do live walking distance from my library, but I thought they closed the same time I got home from work. I just checked again and saw that’s not the closing time everyday, just some days. So that might be an option.

    2. Jules the First*

      I’d start with Cal Newport’s book ‘Study Hacks’ which focuses on making effective use of limited study time. Also worth taking Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies quiz to find out whether you’re the kind of person who will benefit from having external accountability – if you’re an obliger, you may need external motivation to help you stay on schedule, but if you’re a rebel, an external motivator will be a disaster…

  209. Overeducated*

    Late but posting to say I snapped out of the frustration I was feeling a couple weeks ago and decided to focus on doing a good job in my remaining year and a half here rather than trying to find a new, better, permanent job now. Nothing is different except my outlook, which changed for the better last weekend during and because of spiritual practice, so that’s…probably a good sign that I need to carve out that time every week to maintain my sanity.

    Still kind of scared we will be in another recession when I finish my term and there will be no jobs to get, but I’m not sure I should be organizing my life around that fear. Of course, last time I came off a grant and got back into the job market…it was fall 2008…so I do have reason to worry. Can’t escape into grad school after a year of underemployment this time!

    Now just wish my spouse luck, in a few months his grant will be up so he’s looking now. Soft money life can be stressful.

    1. Chaordic One*

      In the mean time, be good to yourself and your spouse. Do the usual things that you need to do, like getting enough sleep, eating well and getting exercise. Then just keep trying to keep on top of things. (And it sounds like you are.)

  210. WorthIt*

    Not sure anyone is reading these on Saturday, but: can I negotiate on both salary and ask for more time to decide an offer? Deadline is Tuesday.

    tl;dr: def. want to negotiate salary. Probably not taking the job, but will have more info next week (… yes, I have another job on the back burner).

    1. Chaordic One*

      Of course you can. Allison has excellent tips for negotiating salary at the following links:

      https://www.askamanager.org/2012/07/what-to-say-when-you-negotiate-salary.html

      https://www.askamanager.org/2014/05/should-you-always-negotiate-salary.html

      After negotiating, when you reach a decision with your potential employer, it’s not unreasonable to as for a day or so to think things over. Allison has sort of answered these questions in previous posts at the following links:

      https://www.askamanager.org/2013/06/should-i-down-down-a-job-offer-in-the-hope-a-different-company-will-offer-me-a-job.html

      https://www.askamanager.org/2011/06/struggling-over-whether-to-accept-job-offer.html

      https://www.askamanager.org/2011/11/how-long-can-i-wait-to-respond-to-a-job-offer.html

  211. Gmglinski*

    I’ve been working for a company for less than 6 months now and I’m torn on what to do. My previous employer of 2 years ran me through the dirt, verbally harassed myself and my family weekly, never gave me benefits, bonuses, and laughed in my face when I asked for a vacation after being there for a year and a half. It was a privately owned business, but ultimately it closed down because of his mistakes. I promised myself I would never put up with ANYONE like that ever again, but now I feel as though I’m walking through the same crap i just stepped out of with a freshly cleaned shoe. I’ve been looking for another job, but now they’re asking me to come in earlier, with a few hours of notification, for my shift tonight and that’s the same kind of crap I got away from with my last job. What do I say to prevent this from happening again?

  212. Chaordic One*

    I’m sorry that you’re going through this. I’m not sure what kind of jobs you’re applying for, but you definitely need to be applying for something different. Like, if you’re applying at small businesses, then try to apply at a chain or a larger business where the employees have benefits. I have a friend (a beautiful young woman) who quit retail because of the low wages and odd hours. She ended up doing janitorial work at a hospital. It seems like hard dirty work, but she says that because of the benefits and more predictable schedule she is much better off financially.

  213. Dee*

    I’m late for the thread, but have a quick question that I suspect has a quick answer:

    Is it appropriate to send a customer’s home address via E-mail or leave on a voicemail? I fulfill memberships for an organization and occasionally customers write or call saying their letter never arrived. When I respond via e-mail, is it appropriate to include the address we have on file? i.e “can I confirm 123 Main Street is a good mailing address?” Can I do the same when leaving a voicemail? As it stands I have been making sure to exchange this information strictly while on a phone call with the person, but lately I’ve been questioning if I’m being overly paranoid and making the resolution to this problem take longer than necessary. I deal with a huge database and am sensitive to protecting our (largely older) customer’s personal information – but maybe an address doesn’t require the same level of security as a phone number?

    1. AnonICan't*

      You could always word it in a way that doesn’t expose information but puts the onus on the donor to give it to you.
      Example: You email or write the donor and say “What is your current email address (or) postal address? I want to make sure I have the right one on file. I’ll update our records if we have the wrong information or if you’ve moved.”
      You have given nothing out. That way, if it reaches the wrong hands, you’ve given nothing out to the wrong person.

      The organizations that I have donated to send me pieces of paper to send back with my donation… my address is pre-printed on it (no phone or email)… when I make a repeat donation, I’m sure they use my response card to put that info into their database. This is a great place for donors to place an updated address.

  214. Elenia*

    Hey guys. I just need to vent a little about this behavior.
    So I applied for a job one step above me. I knew there was a chance I wouldn’t get it, but I was definitely one of the best applicants out there. They ended up going with someone outside, who frankly doesn’t have the history or knowledge I bring to the table, but here’s hoping she has lots of other good traits. I mean that for real – we need someone good in this position and i hope she is it!
    She starts Thursday and my one-over-one who has been supervising us asked if I could bring flowers and a card in for her. What! How tone-deaf is that? He knows I applied for the job, he knows I wanted it, and he knows how disappointed I am. I’ve been covering for this woman for five months now, where’s my flowers or even a freakin thank you?
    Needless to say this had really irritated me and depressed the hell out of me. I am not feeling very valued at my office right now. Not to mention my coworker who has also been working just as hard. In past days, when a new employee started, bagels or some food for the entire office was brought in, not just something for the new person.

    (I actually have a meeting Thursday morning about an hour away from the office, so I told him I couldn’t get the flowers and card. He is getting them. That’s the worst of it – he is going to be here! He could have easily gotten the flowers!)

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