open thread – August 18-19, 2017

by Alison Green on August 18, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Small but Fierce*

    I got a “soft offer” yesterday from a Fortune 500 company for exactly what I asked for, putting myself at a 20% increase. Since it was the top of their budget, I doubt I have much room for negotations. I’m talking to them later today to discuss the benefits they sent over yesterday, at which point I will verbally accept and initiate the background check process.

    1. Is this the call that I should attempt to negotiate? Or should I wait until I pass the background check with a written offer?

    2. Do I have room to negotiate other things (such as PTO, sign on bonus, etc.) when I’m already at the top of their budget? I’m fairly entry level.

    Thanks!

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Agreed. You should always feel free to negotiate, but it’s not always necessary to do so. Are you happy with the benefits package? When you say “fairly entry level”, how many years are we talking? Because I wouldn’t advise asking for a sign-on bonus unless you’re giving up something big at your current/last job.

        1. Small but Fierce*

          I wouldn’t be negotiating for salary, but I do need a lot of time off early into my time there. I posted about it below. I got my salary offer since the third party recruiter that worked between us negotiated on my behalf.

          I’m entry level with 2 years of experience.

          1. Mirth & Merry*

            I asked if I could start with one of my 3 weeks of PTO already banked and they agreed so there is hope. If you don’t ask the answer is always no so I say go for it!

            1. Small but Fierce*

              This was honestly what I’m hoping for. In addition to the wedding/honeymoon, I’m sure I’ll need some time off for appointments prior to the wedding. A week up front, no strings attached would be ideal.

              1. TootsNYC*

                Ask for that. I did, and got it. (Mine was unpaid, but…)

                Also, if you’re leaving anywhere else, you’re going to be giving up vacation you’ve accrued, so you can ask for that kind of time.

                Tell them you’ve already planned that time off, and if possible, tell them you’ve already gotten it approved.

                I think most new employers figure you’ve already planned vacation, they’re willing to honor it.

                And especially a wedding.

                Plus, for most employees, vacation is essentially cost-less to the company. Most of us, they don’t have to hire someone to fill in, and everybody just picks up the slack. Any “expenses” the company has related to your vacation are far more theoretical than something like a raise. It generally doesn’t come out of anybody’s actual budget line (unless you have to hire a substitute).

                My company gave me the unpaid leave AND hired a temp to fill in, and they probably saved money between the two budget lines.

          2. Trout 'Waver*

            Who’s paying the recruiter? If it’s the company, then the recruiter does not represent you.

            1. Small but Fierce*

              I’m unsure what you mean by this comment. All I meant was that I wasn’t involved in discussions about salary with the employer; all those details went straight from the recruiter to them. The company would be paying the recruiter.

            2. H.C.*

              Depending on the terms of the recruiter’s payout (i.e. if their payment amount is tied to Small’s starting salary), they may have some incentive in negotiating on behalf of Small but Fierce too.

              1. Small but Fierce*

                Yes, her commission is based off of what I make. She took my details and drafted an argument on my behalf.

              2. TootsNYC*

                plus, she doesn’t get paid at all (and may lose them as a client) if she doesn’t get them a really good candidate, so she has an incentive to work hard to recruit a good candidate.

          3. Artemesia*

            I think it is fine to negotiate for extra vacation this year for the wedding. Especially if there policy doesn’t let you take the time this early.

      3. SJ*

        This! My current job offered me $5k MORE than what I asked for, and my dad was like “Ask for another $5k! that! They clearly want you!” Instantly a hard no from me. Probably the only bad piece of job advice he’s ever given me.

        1. Small but Fierce*

          Yes, I will not even attempt to touch the salary as I’m thrilled with it! But I will be taking a two and a half week vacation for wedding/honeymoon, so some vacation time up front would be ideal.

          1. AnotherHRPro*

            It would be totally normal to negotiate access to time off earlier than their policy. And the person to discuss this with is generally the hiring manager (not HR/recruiter). Congrats!

        2. Gaia*

          I got the same advice from family when a job offered me nearly 50% more than what I told them I would require…and well above market pay for my region. There was no way I was going to negotiate that as it would have made me look really, really out of touch.

          For context, they offered me what they did because they had similarly experienced and skilled employees making that much already and wanted to ensure pay parity across market regions since my region is economically depressed.

        3. Your Weird Uncle*

          Yeah, the same thing happened to me lately too! I’m glad to see so many reassurances about it, because I was worried maybe I should have negotiated, but they caught me completely off guard by offering me $12k over what the minimum salary was, and $7k over what I was going to ask. I’m happy I didn’t bother – I’m more than happy!

          Congrats on the offer, OP, and your upcoming marriage!

            1. Small but Fierce*

              Thank you both for your congrats! :) If this offer came a few months later, I’d be over the moon. A little stressed about it right now given the timing.

        4. TootsNYC*

          yeah, once you’ve ASKED!

          I mean, if you had said to yourself, “I’ll take the job if they offer me $75,000,” and they offer you $80,000, you could say: That’s sort of high for the field, they must really want me, I’ll ask for another $5k.

          But if you’ve already said &75k, and they offer $80k, while it’s true that they’re saying, “we REALLY want you, we don’t want to chance losing you,” you’re going to look bad asking for even more.

    2. Small but Fierce*

      To elaborate: I’ve commented here before about this offer and my situation. I’m getting married and taking a two week honeymoon in a couple of months. The policy of the new company is that you can borrow up to 40 hours, but you have to pay it back by the end of the year (which I clearly wouldn’t be able to do in that time frame). I’d love to somehow get all or at least some of this time off paid, but I’m not sure how to go about it. Since they came in at the top of their budget, I don’t know if they’ll be flexible with anything else.

      My thought would be to ask for a week’s vacation up front and then borrow the other week, understanding that I wouldn’t be able to pay it all back in time. Does that seem reasonable?

      2. WellRed*

        Why can’t you pay it back? You are getting 20% more salary. Not saying don’t try for better, but that’s another way to look at it.

          1. Small but Fierce*

            My understanding is that you can pay with PTO days up until the end of the year, at which point they take the remaining balance out of your paycheck.

            While it is a 20% increase in base, it’s not actually nearly that much when you look into total comp. My health and commute costs are increasing exponentially as they’re virtually non-existent at my current job.

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              If it were me, I’d probably ask for one week unpaid and to borrow against the other week.

              1. BF50*

                This is what I would do. Or one week pre loaded and a second unpaid. Just don’t forget to mention the occasional day or half day before the wedding in your negotiations, otherwise it will seriously stress you out.

      3. TootsNYC*

        The wedding matters.

        And if it’s true, you can say: “While I’m happy with the salary and would really, really like to take this job, the vacation thing may be a deal breaker. It’s not just a yearly vacation–it’s a wedding and my honeymoon. If I have to wait and go job-hunting again in 8 months, I trust my skills and experience enough to believe that I’ll be successfully then. I don’t -have- to take this job if it doesn’t work in my life. But I would -love- to take this job, so I’m hoping we can make it work in my life.”

        Budget for salary doesn’t affect vacation time. Because vacation time may not cost them any actual cash.

    3. Audiophile*

      Do you want to negotiate? If the offer is acceptable and significant increase in your salary, why do you want to negotiate?

      I didn’t negotiate in my current role, though if I had more specific details on benefits, I think I would have.

      1. Small but Fierce*

        I was in a rush to post, so I didn’t elaborate like I should have. I’m happy with the salary. I’m curious if I have any standing to negotiate for vacation time up front since I will be getting married and going on a two week honeymoon in a couple of months.

        1. Lipsy Magoo*

          I think it’s common for people to come in with trips and other things that were planned prior to accepting the job. And asking for the time off, prior to starting is generally understood. But as far as I know people take this time unpaid if they wouldn’t have vacation time accrued by then.

          Like anything I guess you could ask but for me personally, I would be happy to get the high end, what I had asked for, and wouldn’t nickel and dime for a week’s vacation given the salary is good. I wouldn’t want to start my relationship with a new employer asking for too much, again just my .02.

          1. Small but Fierce*

            True, I didn’t actually negotiate initially but the third party recruiter we worked with did mention my vacation plans to them. I believe the offer is as high as it is since they understand that I am leaving 100+ hours of PTO on the table at my current job and I’ll be taking this time off unpaid with them. So perhaps it would be tone-deaf to ask for more of anything if that’s the case.

            1. Lipsy Magoo*

              So they may have already factored that PTO into the high end offer. You could always ask the recruiter their thoughts as they know this employer, see if anything like this has been done before and how it was received. It sounds to me like you really want to ask but you also mentioned they need someone right away. Giving you the time off and a high end offer may be very good from their standpoint. Good luck and congrats – this is a lot of good stuff happening :)

              1. TootsNYC*

                “Giving you the time off and a high end offer may be very good from their standpoint.”

                Yep! And in fact, that gives you leverage.
                They know they want you, and the cost you are asking is one-time* and doesn’t actually cost them cash.

                *I know people who have said, “I want to start with an extra week of vacation,” and that’s a “cost” that is ongoing, because the week never goes away; it becomes a baseline for every year after that.
                I think that would be a reasonable thing for you to ask for, actually, because I don’t think extra pay is true compensation for losing the time off. Time off is time off, and money doesn’t always make up for it.
                HOWEVER, since you do have this big event, you might want to forgo that one extra week in exchange for 3 of them this year that don’t set a baseline that will affect all years.

            2. TootsNYC*

              If these vacation plans are known to them, I would bet they are planning on accommodating them in some way.
              And so now you and they need to work out what that “way” is–unpaid leave? paid leave that you pay back? So they are probably expecting this to be part of the conversation.

              The pay-in-lieu-of-accrued-time isn’t really intended to offset the actual “already planned” vacation–especially a wedding and honeymoon.

        2. Infinity Anon*

          I would think that you could try to negotiate for the honeymoon, especially since it is a one time thing. You may need to accept that it will be unpaid, but asking doesn’t really hurt. I wouldn’t push too hard though.

          1. Jessi*

            Me too! When formally offered the job try ‘I’m thrilled to be formally offered the job and I would love to accept. I have my honeymoon planned for xdate to x date. I know I won’t have earned the holiday time by then, what can we do to cover this time?’ I personally would also add ‘I am happy to wait until after I come back to start, but think that you need someone to start earlier? I am happy to work with you to start sooner but it would be nice not to be penalised for my honeymoon’. Ask and see what they say

    4. yasmara*

      My company does not negotiate on benefits packages (including vacation). Is there anyone you know there that you could ask about that?

      1. Small but Fierce*

        The recruiter essentially knows as much as I do at this point. I have a call with HR in an hour, so I’ll just have to ask them about that directly.

      2. Infinity Anon*

        If they won’t negotiate on benefits, then that will be their response to the request. It would be odd for them to hold it against the OP for asking, so long as she accepts no for an answer.

    6. Lizard*

      If you are entry level, and you are already getting a 20% increase, and you’re at the top of their budget, I don’t think you have any room to negotiate (nor justification really). For Fortune 500s, you can rarely negotiate PTO, and I find that sign on bonuses are usually in place of additional comp as salary (except if you are relocating).

      1. Small but Fierce*

        As you suspected, they don’t negotiate benefits regardless of the role. So it looks like I will just borrow as much as I can pay back in that time period and take the rest unpaid.

        Thank you everyone for your feedback!

    7. AnotherNPRGeek*

      Whenever I switch companies, I always ask that the waiting period to enroll in Health Coverage (usually 90 days or so in my industry) be waived, since I will be losing my insurance when I leave my current job. The common response is that this is not contractually possible, but almost always is immediately followed by an offer to pick up the cost of my continuation coverage for my current policy. One employer actually paid the COBRA invoices direct to my previous job.

      1. Small but Fierce*

        That’s a good idea! I’m hopeful to squeeze in my annual appointments in these last couple of weeks while I’m still covered, but it’s certainly worth considering. Fortunately the waiting period for health insurance at this company is only a month, which is less than others I’ve seen.

      2. Windchime*

        I have negotiated this as well. Insurance didn’t start for 90 days, so I asked if they would reimburse me for COBRA and they did. I paid it up front and they cut me a check for the full amount. It’s a smart thing to negotiate if you can.

  2. Susan*

    Did I misstep here?

    I had a call scheduled with a recruiter on Monday at 5 PM. A last minute emergency with a client came up and wasn’t able to make it so around 5 minutes before, I emailed and asked if we can push it back a few minutes, and he responded that we can r/s for Thursday. Times were set and confirmed as of Th 9 AM. I blocked off my calendar and went outside to a quiet public place. after 5 minutes, I called and left a voicemail. at 1207, I sent an email. 10-15 minutes later, I get a response that he’s held up and will call me. I sent an email to acknowledge. At 1 PM (1 hour after our original time) I emailed asking if he has an estimate of when he’ll be able to call because I’m in an open office and need to get myself to a quiet place to talk.

    Silence.

    Did I go overboard?? I apologized many times for having to r/s on Monday which he never addressed. Did I just ruin my chances??

    1. Squeeble*

      No, you’re fine. I’ve had recruiters flake on our calls more than once, even after a reschedule. It’s frustrating!

    2. Professional People Person*

      I think you’re fine. I’m a recruiter and it’s not uncommon for people to have to reschedule an interview. He’s probably just very busy and hasn’t had a chance to reschedule your call. If you don’t hear from him in a few days send another note to follow up. I’d also suggest that you stop apologizing for the first reschedule, it’s not usually a big deal and you don’t need to draw any more attention to it. Good luck!

      1. voluptuousfire*

        You’re totally fine. Like Professional People Person said, it’s probably due to the recruiter being busy and not had a moment to reach back out.

        Try again early next week and if there’s no response after a business day or two, I think it’s safe to write them off.

  3. Nervous Accountant*

    So I just found out that my boss said “I think [NA] is stupid and I don’t care if she stays or leaves. If she’s not happy with this salary she can go”.

    So…ummmm yea…..¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Job search is in full force.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Yeah, its funny how just a little over a month ago I was so adamant in not leaving and now. Ugh.

        The reason why I said this year was better than past years was pretty much because the company has grown so there are more people, bigger office, and most imp I deal mostly with my manager (who’s also fed up with our boss) so he was kind of a shield.

        I mean I kinda realized I wasn’t her favorite person but I didn’t think it was THAT bad.

    4. Nervous Accountant*

      I’m trying really hard not to internalize this and affect my work for the amt of time I’m here.

      1. Lipsy Magoo*

        It’s hard but I would try to just smile and know, on the inside that it’s just a matter of time. Soon you’ll leave these jokers behind :) and keeping a good attitude in the meantime is something you do for you, so you can put your best energy into finding a new job.

        Good luck!

      2. Hey Karma, Over here.*

        I was going to comment that this isn’t a value judgement about you as a person, you too just don’t click. But then I re-read where she called you stupid. That’s unnecessary.
        So my advice to you is keep it in perspective:
        She said you are stupid. You aren’t. She is bad boss bossing badly. Give it the same weight you give any “bad boss action” she does. She came unprepared to a meeting, she changed the project specs midway, she said we need X by Tuesday but client said Monday, there she goes again.

      3. Jaguar*

        If it helps, Nervous Accountant, I used to work for two terrible bosses and they would constantly insult people when they thought those people were out of earshot, or when they thought they were out of earshot. Eventually, I heard them complaining about me as well (“idiot,” “moron,” etc.). When I gave notice, they flipped out, telling me how hard it will be to replace me, begging me to stay with salary increases, begging me to extend my notice period, etc. They would do the same about the other people they insulted behind their backs as well when they inevitably gave notice. The reasons they did it were manifold and included being under stress (which they brought on themselves, so there’s no reason to feel sympathy for it), feeling out of control (again, their own fault, because the contributing factor to their lack of control was the high turnover brought on by their own mismanagement), and, of course, just being lousy people, in addition to even more reasons both too small to mention or that I’m unaware of.

        My point isn’t to ignore what you heard or not take it seriously – I think your enemies will often be more truthful to you than your friends – but to know that there are a lot of reasons beyond the fact of the matter that would lead people to say things like that. You should try to get out of that situation, but you should also try to step back and look at things as objectively and clear-headed as you can – be as truthful as you can about your worth, your failings, and your strengths. Once you feel that you’ve been as truthful and honest about that as you can be and there’s nothing in your conscience telling you you’re being unnecessarily harsh on yourself or ignoring your faults to present a better picture of yourself, you might find something awful said about you shrinks to almost nothing in the calculation of your self worth.

        1. Jaguar*

          Bletch. I should really re-read before I hit submit. The first sentence should read, “they would constantly insult people when those people were out of earshot, or when they thought they were out of earshot.”

          And as an added thought, when trying to lay out the facts to get a clear picture of the situation, also come up with all the reasons your boss might say that about you, both legitimate issues with your work and less legitimate issues with your boss (your boss being under stress, for instance). Once you have all the possible situations that would contribute to that comment, you can get to work figuring out what combination of factors is the most plausible.

      4. Not So NewReader*

        I want to say to her “Project much?”
        She privately thinks she herself is stupid and/or her boss tells her she is stupid.
        These things don’t happen in a vacuum. I know first hand, it’s really easy to want to sit and lick the wounds from something like this. I suggest looking up and looking around. How is everyone else making out with this boss?
        I had one boss scream at the top of her lungs in front of everyone, “Everyone here hates you.” I licked my wounds and then spoke with a few well-chosen people. Yep. She did that them also. It was not personal, it was a way of life for her.

        Bosses who say stuff like this reveal themselves to be not capable of managing people.
        PS. Whoever told you this did you NO favors, either.

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            Well no, the person who said this is someone I trust. I did ask them what was said and they were very hesitant but I persisted. I wish I hadn’t.

            1. tigerStripes*

              What a tough thing to deal with. At least, you know you’d be better off leaving. Knowledge is power sometimes. Good luck!

    5. k.k*

      WOW. Even if they thought that, to say it out loud to anyone is terrible. If that’s any indication of they or the company operates, I’m very glad you’re looking to get out.

    6. Lora*

      Wow. I’m sorry. I mean, even if she thinks you are dumb, it’s her job to either coach you or train you, and if that doesn’t work, change your job duties to something you can handle, direct you to transfer to a more appropriate opening if there is one, or let you go.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        We rise with our leadership and we sink with our leadership. Look at where the leader is going and realize this is where the employees will go also.

    9. Granny K*

      Try to look at this as an opportunity to find a better place to be while leaving a job with ZERO GUILT. You aren’t stupid. You deserve to be treated with respect in the workplace. Really.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        It’s funny/odd how being called stupid can be more hurtful than being called a cuss word.
        I think it is easier to blow off a cuss word. “Oh, she called me an AH. At her age, why doesn’t she have a better vocabulary by now?”
        But being called stupid does not shake off as readily. And it has an even stronger negative power when someone in authority uses it.

        Remember it’s her job to help you develop into a valuable employee. In my book she is a Massive Fail by her own admission.

        1. nonymous*

          so here’s my 2cents.

          There are some people that I really respect. If they thought I was stupid, I would be hurt/sad. There are other people whom I don’t care about – for example the person living exactly on the opposite side of the globe; psychopath/sociopaths; certain elected officials, etc. If they thought that I was stupid/intellectually weak, it wouldn’t bother me.

          A boss who doesn’t know to be professional moves from the first category to the other. I’d also argue that someone who assesses another person as “stupid” when they are only seeing a small facet of another person’s life is incredibly ignorant, which is a synonym of stupid. ha!

        2. tigerStripes*

          Kids usually learn how to use “stupid” before they know the AH word – maybe the manager is reverting to childhood.

    11. De Minimis*

      It’s not you, it’s just the industry [I think you’re in public accounting, right?]. People in entry accountant positions gradually quit being profitable after their first year or so, so the longer someone stays, the less enthusiastic management [especially upper management] usually becomes about them staying on, unless they are moving to another level.

      I’m sure you’ll find something a lot better soon.

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        That’s an interesting way to look at it. There’s a lot of high turnover here and a lot of people leave after the first year or so. The ones that stay do get promoted to team leader/mgmt. I got promoted as well, but I get paid peanuts compared to others. .

        1. De Minimis*

          First years have the widest profit margin between their bill rate and their pay, and they also tend to work a lot of billable hours. Even though they may eventually be promoted and be billed at a higher rate, my understanding is they never have that wide of a profit margin again. It probably is also because one someone gets to a higher level, they tend to acquire more duties beyond basic client work that don’t directly generate as much revenue.

          Granted, this is coming from a large firm perspective, but this is a big reason why the “up or out” mentality is so prevalent.

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            That’s interesting. We don’t bill our clients by the hour, they just pay for the services but I can see the parallel here.

    12. Jeff*

      I don’t think I would want to work for a boss who talked about me behind my back like that. NA, I doubt you are stupid. Do you have any further detail concerning a particular topic about which you could be better educated or informed? Was the boss referring to a particular aspect of your work duties or just your overall stupidity? You are not stupid.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        NA is a dedicated AAM reader. We can safely assume that NA is set on life-long learning in any way she can. This makes her verrry smart.

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        I have no idea. She’s very sweet and soft spoken to our faces but after a while I’ve been able to see through it. I wrote above that I haven’t had much interaction with her this year, and she wasn’t a part of my evaluation.

        Problem is, she’s still the “nicest” one I’ve had so far (yeah crazy!). I’m used to the bosses who screamed, berated, threw things, were physically violent (with objects, not people). Or just cold as hell. I used to think she was a “good” boss.

        I do like my current manager tho, he’s a genuinely nice person.

    13. Zip Silver*

      From your boss’s phrasing, it sounds like there’s some backstory here we’re missing. If your manager’s boss knows you’re thinking of leaving or staying, then you’ve already lost the war. I promise you they’re looking for a replacement, at least passively.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Nah, I wasn’t thinking of leaving at all and never mentioned it. In fact, I was very resistant to leaving until this happened. People are always leaving here any way so it’s not a big deal if someone leaves, and they’re always hiring.

        For context–this happened during evaluations.

        Backstory is that our company hired an in-house recruiter. She put an ad on a job website stating that our company is paying $65k for 3 yrs of experience…basically the position I and others have but we’re getting paid 40-50. Incoming support staff salary was $45k, whereas right now the current support staff salary is 30-40. So a lot of us thought that we would get huge bumps. That wasn’t the case, and some of us got way less than we were hoping for. Enough people were angry about it that they took the ad down and proactively explained to ppl during their 1-on-1 that this was a marketing technique they used and no one is getting that $$. Yea.

        During my eval, I got all 5s, and a promotion. and a 15% bump bringing me to $55k. I asked for 60, my mgr went back to our boss, and he came back quickly and said she refused.

        1. De Minimis*

          I remember when you’d decided to stay. I would leave too in your situation. How many years have you been there?

            1. De Minimis*

              I think you’d be a pretty desirable candidate, that is generally the sweet spot for leaving for an industry position.

              1. Nervous Accountant*

                I really hope so! I’m having bad luck with recruiters right now so just trying to figure out what to do!

        2. tigerStripes*

          “they took the ad down and proactively explained to ppl during their 1-on-1 that this was a marketing technique they used and no one is getting that $$.” if that’s true, this company has some serious ethics issues, in my opinion.

    15. Pineapple Incident*

      WOAH. Your boss sucks- that’s horribly unprofessional. Good luck to you in your search- I hope you find somewhere you’re valued.

    16. Elizabeth West*

      So I think your boss is stupid. I don’t care if (s)he stands upright or faceplants on the steps. If (s)he’s not happy with you then (s)he can stick a broomstick up (their) arse.

    17. AnonAcademic*

      I’m sorry you overheard that. I also work for a boss who will rant about how my work is unacceptable, my project is underperforming, the timelines I’ve laid out are too slow, etc. etc. and then will turn around and tell potential funders that my project is the most cutting edge thing in the field and they should give us more money to do things like it.

      I realized the criticism part fulfills an emotional need for him related to his desire for control and to externalize his own stress and shame. The bragging out of earshot thing is tactical to curry favor with outsiders and somewhat to reinflate his own ego. The truth of what he thinks probably is somewhere in the middle – but why he can’t just communicate honestly is a a question above my paygrade. He does this to everyone and one person asked him why he is so harsh and I guess he sees it as a sort of “aim for the moon and if you fail at least you’ll be among the stars” kind of thing. Nevermind that its demoralizing, emotionally abusive, and has contributed greatly to staff turnover.

      1. Ally*

        Oh, AnonAcademic, you have described my academic boss exactly, and why I am planning my exit from academia. I am sorry you are in this situation, but oddly comforted that it is not just me?

    18. Em*

      That’s unprofessional and unpleasant, it’s not a literal comment on what she thinks of your intelligence. That’s just a throwaway comment of unhappiness — more often heard among children, but I’ve heard plenty of adults use the word “stupid” when they meant they didn’t like the situation for whatever reason. And given the context — sounds like you are saying this happened after you asked for a bigger salary increase — then it’s like she said “she’s a yucky head and I don’t care if she leaves”. Just a generic insult because she’s displeased that you dared to stand up for yourself and ask for a better salary. I think you are totally right to start looking for something better — doesn’t sound like the particularly value any of their employees — but I’d try not to take it personally. Or at least see it as her comment on the situation of you asking for a salary bump. Which still isn’t a professional or appropriate response.

  4. Anon for this*

    My employer, a federally-owned corporation, has a horrible policy where any employee who calls in sick for more than four consecutive work days must furnish a doctor’s note not only to excuse the absence, but also to allow the employee to return to work.

    One of my coworkers, Jane, has chronic back problems, and a few weeks ago, she had a bad flare-up and was out for a whole week. She came back the next Monday with a doctor’s note, but the employer’s medical staff was not satisfied with her doctor’s note and would not allow her to return to work, I think because the doctor indicated that her back problems are ongoing and require further treatment.

    We have some physical requirements for our job (walking, climbing stairs, lifting/carrying equipment, etc.), and Jane previously had a doctor’s note saying that she can’t lift over 10 pounds, so I can understand that the employer won’t allow her to return to full duty, but they won’t even allow her to return on light duty such as paperwork. She was signed up for some specialized vendor training this week, and the employer would not even allow her to sit at a desk to attend this training. She says she feels well enough to come back to work, but the employer will not allow her to work without a doctor’s “all clear,” which she may never get because her back problems can’t be completely cured. She is in her mid 50s and not financially ready to retire yet.

    Is this legal? Cursory research tells me that it is legal for employers to require a doctor’s note to return to work, but I find it hard to believe that they can just refuse to allow her to work because she has chronic back problems. She has a lot of sick days and vacation saved up, but when she runs out, she will stop getting paid, and I’m assuming she will eventually be let go if she’s not allowed to return to work. Wouldn’t that effectively mean firing her for having a disability? They can’t do that, right? Don’t they have to at least try to make reasonable accommodations to let her keep her job?

    I don’t think Jane knows much about her employment rights, and I’d like to encourage her to fight for her job. My thinking is that she should start by going to HR to inform them that she is being discriminated against for her disability, and if they don’t step in and help, she should go to our agency’s Equal Employment Opportunity counselor. Is this a good approach, or is there something else she should do? Our department’s management really has no say in this; I know they would like to have her back (even on light duty), but they can’t overrule the medical staff.

      1. neverjaunty*

        In the US, lawyers who handle these kinds of cases work on contingency (meaning you don’t pay them; they front all the costs and are paid as a percentage of any eventual recovery). Jane should absolutely talk to a lawyer.

    3. OhNo*

      Has Jane asked about or set up disability accommodations yet? It sounds like that’s going to be the next step for her. From my understanding (IANAL), the job only has to offer reasonable accommodations and the ADA/disability protections only come into play once the employee explicitly says, “I have a disability”. A company won’t generally (or isn’t allowed? not sure) assume that a disability is in play unless the employee directly tells them so.

      So, Jane should probably talk to an employment lawyer to make sure she covers her bases, start the disability accommodation process (which may require input from said lawyer and maybe a doctor), and start looking into intermittent FMLA.

      For what it’s worth, as someone with a disability, your company is being a bunch of jerks. I understand the desire to avoid worker’s comp claims by keeping already injured people out of the office, but this is some next-level nonsense. I hope things work out for Jane!

      1. Anon for this*

        I’m not sure exactly what Jane has asked for at this point, but I know she has brought in a doctor’s note saying she can’t lift over 10 pounds, so does that count as asking for reasonable accommodation? I don’t think she really even wants any other accommodations. It’s the employer saying that they won’t let her work in her current medical condition, but they’re not offering any accommodations with which they will allow her to work.

        1. StrikingFalcon*

          Yes from what I know (not a lawyer) that should be considered a reasonable accommodation as long as that’s workable for the company without “undue hardship,” which it sounds like it is since there’s work she can do. As an example, my uncle was hired at a home improvement store, and they later tried to move him to the paint counter where he would be required to lift 25 lb paint buckets all day. Since they had other positions open that he could do, they were required to give him one of those. Had it been a paint store, where that was the only work available, I think it would have played out differently, but since there was plenty of work he could do, it was considered a reasonable accommodation.

        2. OhNo*

          I don’t think that counts as asking for accommodation (again, IANAL). Everywhere I’ve ever worked, requesting accommodation has involved an explicit conversation with my manager (and sometimes HR) where I say, “I have X disability and need Y accommodation. Do you need any documentation to make that happen?”
          (I use a wheelchair, so for me the answer thus far has universally been, “No, I think we can safely assume you’re on the level.”)

          But there are a lot of little loopholes in the law that might confuse the issue, so I think Jane’s first stop should be an employment lawyer, just to clarify if what she’s done so far satisfies the legal requirements for an accommodation request. It’s my impression that she needs to say (or even better, write) the words, “reasonable accommodation for a disability” just to cover her bases in case of future legal action, but that could be an overabundance of caution on my part.

          1. Observer*

            It DOES however signal that FMLA may be coming into pay here. And, interestingly enough, it’s apparently on the employer to pick up on that.

            By the way, the courts have also ruled that there is no need for a “magic phrase” for ADA to kick in. So, if someone comes in with a doctors note and asking for a specific accommodation, even if they do not use the words “ADA accommodation”, the employer may be put on notice.

          2. Natalie*

            Per the EEOC, a request for an accommodation does not have to be phrased in a particular form of legalese to count. A statement like “I have a back problem and can’t do that” should be treated like a request for an accomodation. (I’ll link to the guidance in another comment.

            1. Natalie*

              EEOC guidance: https://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/accommodation.html#requesting

              How must an individual request a reasonable accommodation?

              When an individual decides to request accommodation, the individual or his/her representative must let the employer know that s/he needs an adjustment or change at work for a reason related to a medical condition. To request accommodation, an individual may use “plain English” and need not mention the ADA or use the phrase “reasonable accommodation.”(19)

              Example A: An employee tells her supervisor, “I’m having trouble getting to work at my scheduled starting time because of medical treatments I’m undergoing.” This is a request for a reasonable accommodation.

              Example B: An employee tells his supervisor, “I need six weeks off to get treatment for a back problem.” This is a request for a reasonable accommodation.

              Example C: A new employee, who uses a wheelchair, informs the employer that her wheelchair cannot fit under the desk in her office. This is a request for reasonable accommodation.

              Example D: An employee tells his supervisor that he would like a new chair because his present one is uncomfortable. Although this is a request for a change at work, his statement is insufficient to put the employer on notice that he is requesting reasonable accommodation. He does not link his need for the new chair with a medical condition.

        3. Not So NewReader*

          Have her get a copy of her job description. If the job requires walking, standing, lifting, etc. then she may have a tough road ahead of her.

          She needs to have a serious talk with her doc. Docs sometimes think they are being very helpful by saying something is long-term or on-going or whatever in order to get the employer to leave the patient alone. She should tell the doc that her problems are work are escalating because of this note and ask him if what he wrote is actually to be expected in her setting.

          A much simpler example, I had a hair-line fracture in my thumb. The doc said I needed to stay home for three days as I spent all day lifting 25 pounds or more. I told him NO. I guessed right on that one, my employer did not want to hear that my small break was a problem. The employer told me that in no uncertain terms. I was lucky to have the insight to tell the doc NO and I was also lucky to have the ability to limp through my day with this injury. Other settings are different.

          1. Natalie*

            Have her get a copy of her job description. If the job requires walking, standing, lifting, etc. then she may have a tough road ahead of her.

            This isn’t at all the case, necessarily. What precisely counts as an undue hardship is more about what’s possible for the employer and what is genuinely necessary for the job. The employer doesn’t get to circumvent that simply by adding tasks to a job description.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Well if the job description has been altered that brings on another layer of complexity.

    4. State govt employee*

      Yep, it’s rather standard to require a doctor’s note.

      Sounds like she should really have an ADA accommodation or be on intermittent FMLA.

    5. Kathenus*

      I’m in a field that requires a good deal of physical activity. When we have employees back after an injury such as this we sometimes require specific guidelines as to what the person can and can’t do. Light duty may or may not be appropriate for the situation, as I’ve seen cases with back problems where the person wasn’t supposed to sit for extended periods either. Plus light duty can mean a wide variety of different things. We’ve also provided these assessments through our internal safety department/workman’s comp provider at times as well, but I don’t think asking for this is unreasonable on the company’s part. However, if they’re just saying no without explanation or options, that’s not helpful either.

    6. Evil HR Person-like Being*

      The employer *should* start the dialogue about accommodation, but it sure *can* be the employee. Remember, though, that the employer can say that the accommodation she needs isn’t reasonable. And, yes, they can require her to be able to return to full duty prior to letting her return to work at all, if there is no other reasonable accommodation. I’ve seen this in healthcare, for example, where a nurse’s assistant (CNA) would have to be able to lift a person with our without the use of a sling, but the minimums are quite high (being able to push and pull a minimum of 50 lbs., etc.). They can’t accommodate a maximum of 10 lbs. – that CNA is, in effect, asking for something that cannot be *reasonably* accommodated, as it is part of the essential duties of a CNA’s job. Some employers are able to assign a partner to help with the lifting, but – for example again – if that CNA has to visit someone at home, she’ll have to do it alone… you get the idea.

      You have to remember a couple of things when it comes to employers – and a lot of people tend to forget. This might seem illegal because it is unfair to the employee. However, the employer is the employer of her and of a bunch of other people. They don’t want to open themselves up to any kind of litigation – in this case, a worker’s comp filing. She can injure her back AGAIN during the course of work, and we already know there’s a high probability of that happening because of her chronic back problems…. and the employer would have to pay for it. That’s not fair to the other employees who work there who rely on the employer for their paychecks, bonuses, raises, benefits, etc.

      That said, HR is first when it comes to accommodations. They’re the gatekeepers of the rules that go along with the laws. After that talk, and whatever happens during it, comes the lawyer or the EEOC (or both). Chronic back problems in a job where the essential requirement is to lift, push, and pull a minimum weight don’t really mix, though – and never will. I would strongly suggest to your colleague/friend to look for something else to do, if that’s a possibility. Let’s suppose she wins an EEOC case (this one, in my experience, will not be something that the EEOC will pick up and will probably issue her a right-to-sue letter, which in the end *might* get her a couple thousand dollars at the most) she still needs to look for a different employer. And EEOC cases can take up to 24 months to resolve – sometimes more. What will she do until then?

      1. Anon for this*

        Thanks for all the information and advice… The maximum lifting capability of 10 pounds is definitely a reasonable accommodation, because the department has been accommodating this restriction for her and a couple of other people (off and on) for years. I have no idea what other restrictions her doctor may be recommending, but I don’t think Jane wants any other accommodations; she wants to return to work with her normal duties except for lifting over 10 pounds (which is not an essential duty).

        Pardon my ignorance, but if her back condition is pre-existing, doesn’t that mean the employer would not be liable for worker’s comp? I get that they don’t want to open themselves up to litigation, but it seems like this is at odds with protecting employees from disability discrimination. I mean, they couldn’t refuse to hire someone who uses a wheelchair just because they’re afraid they’d get sued if the person rolls too close to the stairs and falls down the stairs, right?

        Would it make any difference if this were a non-physical job? I think our department’s management would be willing to bring her back in a desk job capacity (especially if the only alternative is losing her completely), and in fact there is currently an opening in our department for a desk job. But I get the impression that the medical staff won’t even let her come in to work at a desk at this point. I think she would have trouble finding a job that suits her at another employer, because she has a very specific skill set that is valuable to my employer, but not to any other employer in the area.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Perhaps she needs to ask the doc if she should apply for permanent disability.

          First and foremost, employers have to work in a manner that prevents injuries, period. This means if a person has a pre-existing condition then perhaps they were never a fit for the job in the first place and it was a bad hire.
          In the staircase example, stairs usually have to be built according to certain specs. The layout is such that it’s reasonable to assume a person in a wheelchair would not be in the vicinity of the stairs because the ramp is off to the side and there is an adequate landing for turning the chair safely. Probably most employers would not even think of a wheelchair bound person getting tangled up in a staircase for any reason.
          Many places will accommodate someone who has a short term limitation. This means throwing the workload onto the remaining people. So employers are hesitant to make this a permanent accommodation in part, because it is likely that others may become injured from sharing too large a workload for too long a period.

          In short it’s not discrimination to require employees to have certain physical abilities in order to do a specific job. If they restructure her job and give her a different title so she can do other things that is what a nice company does. But they don’t have to if they can’t or if it is not within reason. (Think of it this way, it would be abusive to knowingly hire someone who cannot do the job and force them to do it.)

          If she has a documented disability she may be eligible for a retraining program. I am not sure how that works outside of my own state.

          1. Anon for this*

            I know her doctors think she should apply for permanent disability (she has mentioned that every time she goes to the doctor, they are amazed that she is still working), but she’d rather keep working. She’s been in this job for 10 years, and I’m not sure if she had the back problems before she started this job or not, but it’s only been the last few years that she’s had physical restrictions. We really don’t do a lot of heavy lifting, so it’s not very often that her restriction affects the job. It would be a pretty big accommodation to allow her to do only desk work (probably enough to cause “undue hardship” to the employer). She’s not asking for that, but it seems like the employer might not want her doing any physical work.

            I certainly understand that some jobs come with physical requirements, and it might simply be impossible to accommodate some disabilities in some jobs, but it kind of breaks my heart because she has given a decade of her life to this job and I think the employer should try harder to keep her around.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              I have seen a lot of situations like this and concluded our systems suck. I am sorry this is happening to your friend. Every person is a valuable resource. Some day maybe our society will figure that out.

        2. Evil HR Person-like Being*

          The employer could make a case that the employee aggravated her pre-existing chronic condition, and a good lawyer would say this is new and has nothing to do with her previous condition and, and, and… the employer starts bleeding money trying to litigate. The employer might win, but they’ve already spent the money.

          I wonder what else is on that doctor’s note??? I’m not one to override doctors, but if there’s something on the note that Jane doesn’t want there, she could ask her doctor to write a new note. I mean, if it’s in the note, then the doctor feels that for Jane’s health, she should NOT do X, Y, and Z; and the doctor would so herself a disservice by not including Z at Jane’s request… but, Jane can try and ask.

          It would definitely make a big difference if nothing in the essential duties of a particular position stated that the employee must possess the capacity to lift a minimum amount of weight. Most desk jobs don’t have these minimums. The medical staff is being a little intransigent here, and may not know that it is the law of the land to accommodate for ADA purposes. She might have to circumvent them – I strongly recommend that she do that and go straight to HR. Do you have an HR department or HR-like person? Also, arm your friend with some information directly from the EEOC regarding ADA accommodations. The EEOC site is chock full of really good information for employees.

          1. Anon for this*

            Oh yes, it is a huge organization, so we have an HR department at our branch, and another HR department above them at the corporate office. That’s why I’m really surprised the medical staff is doing this; I would have expected such a large employer to be more sensitive to this kind of thing.

            I don’t know the details about the doctor’s note, but there was never a problem with the 10-pound lifting restriction. I suspect that the doctor is just not willing to sign something saying that Jane is cured and ready to return to work, probably because the doctor is afraid of getting sued!

    7. Observer*

      FMLA / ADA would come into play here – and it sounds like the employer is messing up BIG time.

      I agree with the others that a chat with HR is probably a first good step. Next EEOC and / or lawyer.

    8. ..Kat..*

      Before going ADA/FMLA/EEOC, what is her job? For instance, if she is an accountant, would her doctor be willing to write that she is cleared for her job as an accountant? Given that her boss and coworkers are already working around her not lifting more than 10 pounds, I would just ask the doctor to leave that off. This would allow her to work and would satisfy the nitpicking requirements.

  5. Work Wardrobe*

    Can anyone recommend good opaque tights for plus sizes? I’m in dire need for my fall work wardrobe…

    Most of them have super-constricting waistbands and narrow hips, even with the “Queen” designation. Help!

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’ve had really good luck with Hue, which are sold at a bunch of places (I prefer to get them at a department store like Macy’s or Lord & Taylor). I wear a 14/16 and have several pairs that I’ve worn to the point that they fall apart because I find them pretty comfortable. They also tend to have great variety of patterns and colors. I’d recommend those if you haven’t tried them already.

          1. Chiming in for Clothes*

            Thirding Vera Wang! I get mine at Kohl’s – they’re affordable and super comfortable. I hate the waistband-choking of a lot of tights.

            1. Elizabeth West*

              Hmm, I should check that out. I rarely go in there but I want to expand a little; I’ll wear dresses if I can wear tights (I hate going bare-legged) because I feel too nakey.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          14/16 are their L or XL, depending on your shape– I think they go up to 3X but don’t quote me on that.

      3. Jill*

        I love Hue as well, but they have a much more limited color selection for larger sizes than the smaller ones.

    2. Annoyamouse*

      I know this is the very basic response for plus-size women, but I’ve had really good luck with Lane Bryant’s Control Top. They’re fully opaque for me, and when I choose carefully with the size chart, I haven’t run into any too-tight-I-can’t-breathe or rolling-down-my-arse issues.

    3. LostRiverRanger*

      I love Commando brand. I am short and round (but with a small waist for ultimate waist band discomfort) and they are comfortable and *don’t* make me feel like a sausage. The waist design isn’t a band, per se. Expensive but they wear well and I also wash them (horrors) in the machine in a lingerie bag and they last multiple seasons (and I wear tights 3-4 days a week during our 9 months of winter)

      1. LostRiverRanger*

        And I also love Hue. Donna Karan’s were excellent for years as well. But waistband wise and comfort wise, I’m still most happy myself with Commando

    4. Orca*

      I know sockdreams dot com is great about putting measurements on their stuff (inches and pounds both) and testing with varieties of body types-I don’t have first hand experience with their plus sizing but have been super pleased with them when I’ve ordered stuff! Just went and clicked around a bit and I thought things specified opaque or not but that may have been reviews or just certain items.

      1. Cloud Nine Sandra*

        I have found their sizing to be pretty on target. They even have pictures of actual women who want wide calves or larger sizes wearing the tights.

    6. awkwardkaterpillar*

      I’ve had tights and legging from Torrid and I really like them. I haven’t tried their opaque tights but I find their stuff is cut really well for plus sizes (as they should be considering it’s a plus sized store but that doesn’t always happen…)

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        I love Torrid leggings, but their tights are awful IMHO. They’re low riders and won’t stay up on me.

    7. Hmmmmm*

      I’m a huge fan of Berkshire tights. They’re opaque, breathable, and I have had great luck washing them in a washing machine inside one of those bag things. I get them from Lord and Taylor.

    8. Mallory Janis Ian*

      I get mine at Lane Bryant (size 18 – 20) and they’re really opaque and sturdy. I don’t know how many colors they come in, since I only look for black and dark gray myself. They may come in other, fun colors, but I haven’t paid any attention.

    9. Sled Dog Mama*

      Don’t know if this will work for you but after discovering maternity legging/tights, I will never go back to regular. The “waistband” is much more stretchy, because the waist band sits up around your ribcage it doesn’t leave that unsightly line around your middle and since they are made to sit up that high they don’t ride up into your crotch as badly

    10. Beth*

      I used to belong to a group of members of a plus-size clothing rental service, and many of them were fans of We Love Colors. Looking now, a lot of their stuff is more “fun” than businessy, but the women who wore them raved about them–I’m sure you could find some more neutral colors on the site!

    11. Bend & Snap*

      Berkshire! I get them off amazon, the sizing is spot on and the quality is great. I have better luck with the tights than the pantyhose as far as durability but I think that’s normal.

      Nordstrom brand also has plus size and they’re good. I got some really pretty nude ones and they were shredded before I got to work, but have had fine luck with black pantyhose and tights.

      1. Work Wardrobe*

        Thanks!

        Sadly, I tried Nordie and they were gasp-inducing at the waist. I’m normally a 1X.

    12. Lala*

      Torrid.com has good quality tights/leggings, often with really cute designs. Also on Amazon.com, there’s a brand called Vivian’s Fashions that has plus size leggings that are designed for actual plus size hips/waists, though I do still go up one size. I’m normally a 26/28 or 4x in bottoms, so I know the struggle of things saying they’re plus size but then not actually fitting because the retailers just scaled up w/out taking into account the way things are distributed differently on larger bodies.

    13. Justme*

      Check out Sock Dreams. I’m not sure what their stock is like right now but they definitely carry those.

    14. NaoNao*

      We love colors is a site that specifically has tights in, you got it, colors! I believe they go up to a 2X or possibly higher, and they run large. Target’s plus sized tights were too large for me, even though I generally wear an XL or XXL in clothing, so that might work too.

    15. Cafe au Lait*

      Size 18 here, I love Spanx. They’re expensive, but by buying three pairs a year I’ve built a nice collection. What I love is that even the pairs I purchased years ago still look new.

    18. IvyGirl*

      Assets – made by SPANX, sold in Target. They’re great because they go up as high as you want them – like all the way up to underneath your bra. Half the price of SPANX tights. They also typically last for more than a year.

      I wear them under everything from about October – April, even pants and jeans, as another layer.

    19. JulieAnneCovet*

      I’m a big fan of We Love Colors for tights – they come in every color of the rainbow (even plus sizes), are reliably opaque, excellent customer service.

    20. Triplestep*

      I buy nothing at Walmart, but break my boycott once a year when I go in to stock up on George tights. Haven’t found anything as comfortable and low-priced anywhere, and paying more has been no guarantee of longer lasting tights.

    21. Former Retail Manager*

      Spanx brand……but not all versions. Specifically, I like the double sided version, one color on each side. And they’re virtually indestructible. I didn’t believe it until I ordered a pair for myself (black/charcoal). I’ve put these puppies through the ringer and even caught them on sharp metal objects. No snags, tears, runs, holes, nothing. They’re fabulous, but they are about $20 a pair.

    22. MissDisplaced*

      Strangely, I found at Walmart. Good price, lots of colors and thicknesses and came in “plus” size xl, 1x, 2x etc., which was nice. I think they were Hanes. I got for like $2-3 on end of season last year, but I’m sure they will be out again.
      Hue is also a good brand.

    23. General Ginger*

      I used to swear by We Love Colors when I wore tights — their tights go up to at least 4X, and are rugged enough to be machine-washable. Ignore the “fun” colors if they don’t work with your dress code — but their plain black, grey and navy are perfect.

    24. LavaLamp*

      You can also try thigh high stockings if you’re unable to find anything with a waist that fits. I don’t like things pinching my middle either, so that’s what I do.

    25. kitryan*

      Lands End – I am rather full in the hips/bottom/thigh region and average height and I’ve found them to work well in non-control top variety. I don’t like their sweater/texture/fleece tights though, they have narrower upper portions

    26. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      I buy about 15 at a time of Forever 21’s plus-sized leggings. I live in them. They’re sooo comfy, and they come in a heather charcoal color which I love. They don’t last suuuuper long (hence why I buy like 10 at a time; they run out on the website all the time because they’re so popular) but they are dirt cheap, at I think $5.60 a pair, and will last a few months with regular wear. I stopped looking for other leggings once I found them!

  6. not so super-visor*

    I was on here a few weeks to give someone else encouragement when they had to fire/let someone go. It’s the part of my job that I dread the most. I’d really appreciate any positive vibes/mantras that anyone can send my way. I have to let another temp go, and I don’t think that he’ll take it well.
    He tries so hard that he literally shakes with frustration but after a month, he’s still struggling with basic concepts that we go over the first couple days (and claims that we’ve never gone over). My boss has already warned me that I spend too much time/effort trying to make “bad” temps work, but I feel like I owe them as much as I do our full-time employees. I’ve spent more time coaching him than any temp we’ve ever had.
    I’ve tried, he’s tried, but it’s just not going to work.

    1. YarnOwl*

      I’m sorry you have to do this! I can’t imagine having this as part of my job. It’s really kind of you to spend so much time helping them, and I know I would appreciate it if I were in the temp’s position. I hope it goes okay and that you don’t have to do it again anytime soon!

    2. dreams for plans*

      That is really kind of you to treat temps just as you would a full-time employee. Sending positive vibes- judging by your post, I feel like you know what to do it gently. Good luck!

    3. Your Weird Uncle*

      Positive vibes! You aren’t taking this lightly, which I’m sure your temp will at least be able to understand (later, perhaps). You sound like a great boss!

    4. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      Here’s a good litmus test: if the position became full time, would you tap this guy for it or would you keep him there until you found a new employee?
      It’s not the right job for him. That is nobody’s fault. It sucks, but you can’t fix it. You need to tell the agency to send someone else.

      1. DDJ*

        Seconding this! And I think that “This is not the right job for you” is something to incorporate into your statements to him. It’s not a judgement thing, it’s a fit thing. And it’s not that the job is great and he sucks, it’s that the job is just not a good fit for him.

        Sending good vibes your way!

    5. SophieChotek*

      Good vibes! Hope you can get through what sounds like a difficult, but necessary, conversation. It sounds like you invest a lot in your employees to try to help them — like other’s have said, hopefully (someday, if not now), the temp will realize you truly wanted what was best for him — and that though he truly tried, it just was not a good match.

    6. spocklady*

      Ugh, good luck. That sounds awful. Poor him and poor you. I’m sure he’ll appreciate (later) how kind and patient you were with him through this whole thing, but ultimately effort only gets all of us so far.

    7. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Been there, done that. It sucks, but it’s a necessary evil some times. If he’s struggling as much as you say, it’ll probably be a relief to him (probably not something he’ll realize in the moment, but eventually). Good luck!

    8. Siberian*

      I had to fire a temp who wasn’t right for the job, and was able to do it in a way that preserved his dignity (thanks Alison!). I explained he didn’t have the right skill set and asked him about what his goals were for temping. He had skill set A, but had been sent to me by our central temp office claiming he had skill set B. And skill set A was an unusual one for temping (the guy had been a CEO). So I explained why it wasn’t working out, then asked why he’d joined the temp pool, learned that he thought he could launch a career in skill set A from the temp pool (nope!) and gave him advice on how to more successfully meet his career goals. Some of that might be appropriate in this case too.

    9. KR*

      You can be a reference to his effort to do the job correctly for future jobs maybe? Or if you have contacts for a role you think he would do well in you could reference those so he has job leads. Or you could refer him to training programs so maybe in the future he could improve and reapply?

    10. SarahKay*

      It’s not your fault! You’ve done the best you can (and good for you, treating temps as well as you do permanent heads!) but this guy just isn’t working out. Just be kind, and clear, when you tell him that it’s not working and you’re going to let him go. And if there are skills he does have, or things he is good at, let him know and suggest he discusses them with his agency with regards to future postings.
      Good luck!

    11. not so super-visor*

      Ugh… it’s done. He didn’t take it well (as expected) and made loud comments as I walked him out of the conference room, to his desk, out of the department, and out of the building about how I don’t offer enough training, he didn’t get any feedback, how was he supposed to know, how fast did we expect him to get this? Just very loud and repeated over-and-over again…. I remained fairly neutral during this except for a few “I understand that you’re upset.” I think that this is the most upset/bordering angry that I’ve been after letting a temp go. I think that his claims about lack of training and feedback when I spent so much time working with him. This is the same guy that I had to teach how to use copy-and-paste 4x!! I even got off of a conference call to show him.

      1. SarahKay*

        Glad you’ve got it over with, and sending you sympathy for his poor reaction. But that really sounds like you made the right decision, since it sounds like he won’t take any responsibility for himself.

  7. AlexandrinaVictoria*

    I have an interview on Monday for a job in my existing organization. It would be a considerable step up and very interesting work. The problem? I would be working with a person who never. stops. talking. I mean EVER! People run the other way when they see them coming. Any ideas how to handle this if I get the job?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Would you be working more closely with this person than other people would be? Or is this someone everyone needs to deal with in equal amounts time-wise?

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          And after the training? More closely or just the same as everyone else? If you’re dealing with this person as much as everyone else, chances are you will all have strategies to share with each other… or at least commiserate. If, however, you’ll work more closely with this person than anyone else, you may have an uphill battle in curtailing the non-stop chatter.

    3. State govt employee*

      Just tell them to stop talking. Tell them you are working and you don’t want to be distracted. If they continue, threaten to complain to your or their boss that they are interfering with your work.

      How does someone have the time to be this way? Will you have to pick up the slack?

    4. OhNo*

      How socially aware are they, do you know? If they’re not very good at picking up social cues, you’re not likely to make any dents in their interminable talk-a-thon, no matter what you try. In that case, your best bet would just be to tune them out however you can.

      If they do pick up on social cues, though, you can usually train people to associate certain actions with ‘They are not listening, guess I won’t bother to talk’. The trick is to pick your action (wearing headphones, looking at computer, etc.), then anytime they talk to you while you are doing that action you turn into a broken record of “I’m sorry, were you saying something?”, “Oh, were you talking to me?”, “Sorry, I was focused on [work thing], and I wasn’t listening. What were you saying?”

      It’s difficult, because you have to draw a hard line. You can never make so much as a neutral “mmhmm” noise while you are doing the action, and you always have to pretend you didn’t hear what they were saying, even if you were listening, even if it’s actually important or work-related. It’s worked for me on family members and coworkers, so it can be done with some people. But man, it is a lot of effort sometimes.

    5. Takver*

      I had this problem once. This guy would come and lean on the wall by my desk and ramble on. I would just tell him “I can’t talk now, I have to concentrate on this.” Then I would ignore him. I just treated him as if he weren’t there. He would ramble for a while, then go away. Now granted, I have a strong ability to tune out everything around me that not everyone has, but this worked for me.

    6. Cleo*

      I used to sit next to a constant talker – I started by interrupting them after a few minutes and saying “I’m enjoying talking with you but I need to work now” and then turning back to my desk.

      We developed a good rapport and on days I really needed to focus I’d tell him upfront that I needed my cone of silence. It worked because he was relatively self aware and knew he talked a lot.

      He also had a sense of humor about it. One time I came in, exchanged pleasantries and then he started into a story – I asked if this was going to be a long story (because I had work to do) and we heard a laugh snort from the other side of the cubical – and then we all laughed.

    7. A.N.O.N.*

      Make it clear that this is a “you” thing, like “I have this weird thing where I can’t focus on anything I’m doing if someone is talking loudly nearby” or “Since I’m new to this role, I really want to focus on my work and not spend so much time chatting”

    8. DDJ*

      Boundaries! I think that people let others get away with this type of behaviour because it can be mildly uncomfortable to say “I really need to get back to this thing I was working on, thanks for the chat!” Or “I’d love to keep this conversation going, but I do need to get back to x and y. Talk to you later!”

      I mean, that’s the first step, polite sort of stuff. If someone can’t respect those types of boundaries, then you need to escalate into slightly less soft responses. But I think these can be a good place to start! I also think that Cleo and A.N.O.N. have some excellent scripts!

  8. Sam Vega*

    I’m planning on going back to school in January to finish undergrad. I’m thinking of asking my supervisor whether it would be possible for me to go part-time. My current position is structured in such a way that it would be possible and I’ve been told by senior management that they’re looking at creating a new position that would probably begin around that time that I’d be particularly well-suited for. They’ve been hinting rather strongly over the past few months that they would like to see me in this role. I don’t know if they’re planning on this new role to be entirely different or if they’re planning on adding it to my (or someone else’s) current job duties.

    When should I start this discussion? I have a new supervisor, so I don’t know how well this request would be received. (I’m >99% certain that my past supervisor would have made this happen.) If it’s something they’re interested in doing, I want to give as much time as possible to plan the transition and not let anyone waste time on making plans that they’ll have to change either way, since if I can’t work PT, I’ll have to resign.

    However, I’m hyper-cautious by nature and don’t want to risk losing my job before I would otherwise have resigned…and that’s about 4 months from now. I’m sure this will be a case of ‘know your company’, which I really don’t anymore…there have been enormous changes in recent months, mostly not good.

    1. Becky*

      I’m not sure I can offer any advice on when to start that discussion, but I just wanted to say congrats on going back to finish your degree!

      1. Sam Vega*

        Thank you! I’m actually still waiting to hear back as to whether I’ve been accepted (and there’s no guarantee of that), but I have a hard time reining in my compulsion to plan.

    2. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      I would start the discussion by saying you are interested in the position you are hearing discussed. Can we please meet and talk about the details of that, because I think it might be the right move for me.
      You don’t have to share your plans right now. Get all the info you can and come up with your proposal for going part time.

    3. It's me*

      Having been in a (somewhat) similar situation recently, my advice is to wait at least a couple of months before bringing this up. A couple of questions that might clarify the timing a little bit –
      – do you want to move into the new role if it is ultimately created, or would you prefer your current role?
      – any idea which role is more feasible as a part-time role?

      Also, I understand the impulse but I would not worry too much about them spending time making plans that ultimately have to be changed (that’s just life/business), as long as there is a reasonable time to create the new plan.

      1. Sam Vega*

        For the past several years, my job has been a hybrid of Function A and Function B, which are somewhat related but typically handled by different people (or departments). As a result of a large and ongoing reorg, Function A was recently dropped in favor of doubling my workload in Function B.

        I now have two departments (B1 and B2) to manage. Given a choice, I’d prefer dropping B2 and keep either B1 or transition to the new position (Function C). Depending on the details, C could be much better than B, and might actually be a lot more relevant to future career goals. It’s just too soon to tell for now.

    4. L*

      Congrats! I’m also going back to school in the fall and was able to work out an agreement to stay on part-time with my current employer. It can really depend on your supervisors and how flexible they might be. Most people will not hold it against you that you’re returning to school—it’s better than leaving for another job, in that it’s something that your coworkers and management can celebrate with you.

      If you have four months and you just got a new supervisor, I’d wait and just get a better feel for things. I told my manager with 1 1/2 months of lead time, which is a generous amount of time for notice and for working out possible part-time work. Just act like you would if you were going to keep working there, but if you are asked directly about role changes or offered the new position, that’s a great opportunity to have the conversation. You can frame it as wanting to give them plenty of time and info to plan, and wanting to share the good news.

      When you ask about part-time work, it’s helpful for them if you already have an idea of how many hours you might be interested in and what your availability would be. Obviously school is a long ways out, but even a ballpark of hours is helpful for them for planning and budgeting. If you don’t know yet, tell them when you think you’ll have a better idea. It’s a good idea to meet with HR after the announcement to talk about what’s possible on a practical level for part-time work and your benefits (if you’re not getting them through school). I wanted to make sure that I would still get my vacation days paid out if I downgraded to part-time, rather than quitting.

      For me, getting to a part-time agreement was a series of conversations about what I and the company needed, and everyone (including people I hardly work with!) has been very excited to see me heading back to school.

      1. Sam Vega*

        All of this makes sense, thank you! Are you going back to school for something related to your current job?

        One of my potential options might eventually relate to the company, but not at all to my current position. I guess I’m worried that it will look like I’m totally uninterested in what I’ve been doing for the last several years and that people might not be as excited for me as what you experienced.

  9. Nervous Accountant*

    Kind of a stupid Q but how do people screen for benefits such as health insurance when job searching? When I was searching I was only interested in getting hired, I didn’t even care about the salary. Now that I’m looking I’m not as desperate anymore (well…hopefully not)

    I think we have really good health insurance here. I pay about $500 a month in premiums (deducted from my paycheck) and medicine & visit co-pays. I have health issues so good health insurance is non-negotiable for me.

    On a broader note, how do you find out about any benefits at all (PTO etc?) About culture, environment, fit? What are the questions to ask? Do you just assume that big companies will offer great benefits? I have two vacations coming up in November & December, when do I bring those up? Am I supposed to wait until the offer to find out if they offer insurance and what kind of PTO? Do I mention it along w my desired salary?

    1. Anonymous Poster*

      These are such normal things to want to discuss with a potential employer!

      Standard timing advice applies, that you need to usually wait until the offer stage before bringing these things up. I agree that the timing stinks because it means going through the whole process before knowing whether you ever really wanted to bother with the place or not, but perhaps you know people in your industry that you can trust that also know whether such-and-such a company tends to have a good or bad policy about the things that are concerning you. For example, when I was looking once, I asked a friend that worked for a company I was considering what the general benefits package looked like so I knew what I was getting myself into. I also did a bit of research on glassdoor to figure out, about where a company would come in.

      It’s not a surefire thing and it’s all hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt.

      As for planned vacations, that also pops up during your negotiation phase. Otherwise it’s simply too early otherwise to talk about those things, unfortunately.

    2. Spills*

      For things like heath insurance, if they haven’t brought it up in the interview process, or if you’d like more detail, I usually ask to review both the insurance/benefits/PTO package and the employee handbook once I’ve received an offer.

      For things like culture/environment/fit, you should 100% be asking about that during the interviews. For things like upcoming vacations, I’d say wait until you have an offer, and then discuss with them. However, I’d approach it in a “I have a trip planned, but I’d understand if it won’t be possible for me to take the time off, as getting settled in the new job is my first priority.” I haven’t had an issue yet, as most companies understand that you’ve already scheduled and paid for these trips before you accepted the job with them. You’ll have to be OK with the possibility of taking them unpaid though.

    3. Fabulous*

      I’ve always had success (with bigger or public companies at least) finding the information on their website.

    4. Nervous Accountant*

      oh my god, so you have to go through the whole process before finding out about insurance? that’s insane!

      1. A.N.O.N.*

        If you consider it part of your overall compensation package, it makes a bit more sense. You wouldn’t negotiate salary until you have an offer, for example.

        That said, if it’s particularly important to you, you can try asking during an interview.

        1. zora*

          Well, sometimes a salary range is in the job posting, or they do give you some idea of their range before getting all the way to the offer stage.

          I actually think ideally that salary range AND the general outline of benefits should be part of the posting, especially as health care becomes a more and more urgent issue in the US.

      2. nonymous*

        For insurance, when they make an offer ask for the rate sheet summary that HR handed out to current employees during the last open enrollment. A lot of companies (even the big ones) only make that info available internally.

    5. ThatGirl*

      A lot of companies will offer you a benefits overview when you’re getting closer to the offer stage. It kinda depends, but I think you can definitely ask during, say, a second-round interview – “do you have an overview of benefits available?” or something like that. Vacation I might also bring up around the same time, but it can wait until the offer when you say “just so you know, I have pre-scheduled vacations, will that be an issue?”

      I recently got two offers and one company sent a whole wealth of insurance info along with it; the other one basically sent a form letter that said “we have health insurance.” guess which one I took.

    6. Hmmmmm*

      I always look up a company on Glassdoor to get an idea of the benefits are like before deciding if its worth your time at all to attend an interview with a company. I always check the salaries too, but those can be more subjective or dependent on the role. Health insurance and PTO tend to be roughly the same for most employees, so the information is pretty good. I also usually try to find the benefits page aimed towards current employees on company websites. You would be surprised how many companies have their on their internet portal, not intranet.

    7. Mirth & Merry*

      I wouldn’t bring it up in say a phone screen/first interview, I do think it is pretty safe to assume that there will be some type of benefits and the 2 weeks PTO for *most* companies. But just ask! If they bring up salary expectation etc. that is definitely a good time and it’s definitely not a secret! When I have done final interviews there was always a short session with HR and they went over all the benefits details and I think having those before the offer helped because it put salary in perspective.

      Here is one of AAM old articles that is in my bookmarks until I retire. I think #6 “What type of people tend to really thrive, and what type don’t do as well?” has saved me. And good luck!
      https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2012/04/18/the-10-best-interview-questions-to-ask

    8. Susan*

      I’ve found most companies to be pretty forthcoming about their benefits, and sometimes even have info on their web sites. I mainly apply to large companies with pretty good benefits, though, so maybe companies with poor benefits try not to bring them up.

      The thing that drives me crazy is that they’ll give all this information about their health insurance, what is and isn’t covered, what percentage is covered for each plan, etc., but they don’t give any information about the cost of the premiums! So, ok, you offer a great plan that covers 90% of your costs and no copay, etc., but if the premiums cost $2000/month, that is actually a terrible plan. I have never been able to find out the cost of the premiums until I actually start the job and make my benefit elections.

    9. periwinkle*

      If the company you’re applying to has a careers webpage, they might also include an overview of what’s available and even a “what it’s like here” page. This will all be the rosy company-approved perspectives, but it’s information nevertheless.

      Glassdoor has expanded the crowdsourced info to include a tab on benefits. This is a good place to check to find out if the company with the “generous vacation time” actually allows you to take vacations or guilt trips you into staying chained to the desk…

    10. NotAnotherManager!*

      Our HR has a benefits info packet that they provide to anyone who’s receiving an offer, and there is also a high-level blurb on the careers portion of our website about the benefits offered. As someone else mentioned, benefits are part of comp, so it should be discussed as part of that negotiation once both of you decide that you want to move forward.

      I would not mention the vacations until you have an offer either. We negotiate vacations for incoming people all the time and can nearly always manage to accomodate them.

    11. Optimistic Prime*

      For benefits you do need to wait until the offer stage to ask the team, but at big companies you can often find these out by searching the net. Some companies actually have their full benefits listed on one of their careers websites – my company has a pretty comprehensive list on our Careers website. Also, at really big companies there are blog posts and Quora articles and Glassdoor posts that people have posted, and while they’re not always 100% accurate or up-t0-date, sometimes you can piece together the basics.

      One oblique way to get at it is to ask about work-life balance in your interviews – sometimes people will mention how the benefits (particularly vacation time) allow them to balance their work and life.

      But for culture I asked this at my interviews. I asked what the team’s culture was like explicitly, and how people interacted and worked together.

  10. Folklorist*

    ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST! Go do something terrible you’ve been dreading and come back here to brag about it! Suck it up, buttercup! :-P

    1. NotThatGardner*

      thanks, folklorist! i just responded to an email i’ve been avoiding because of the can of worms i’m worried it might open… and got my boss on board to help me if they do end up spilling open!

    2. The Other Dawn*

      I’ve started researching the regulatory requirements for NBFIs (non-bank financial institutions): broker-dealers, pawn brokers, investment companies, etc. I’m in banking and it’s a “suggestion” from a regulatory agency. It seems as though we’re the only bank having to do this to this degree, so I’m not finding a lot of peer resources. On top of that, the regulatory and licensing requirements are so not fun to read. Plus, there’s no central listing of registered pawn brokers, which means asking these customers for a copy of their license (granted through the local PD) and having to get pushback from them and the branches that “other banks don’t do this!” I just want to cry. And eat.

    4. LCL*

      Ahead of you this time. I cleaned my desk on Wednesday (it took hours) and decided that I would count it as my anti-procrastination task. (I make notes as I work, usually have to refer back to the notes, then never throw them away. I don’t have months’ backlog of jobs stacked up on my desk.)

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I have to clean the house, but that will take several hours, and I have to do laundry when I do it, and I have to go out first, so I will do it after that.

      Right now I will go check job listings (GROAN).

    7. H.C.*

      Filing all the mileage reimbursement forms for the week (had 2 evening events & 2 off-site morning meetings)

    9. Shortie*

      Urgh, I just put on a load of laundry. May not sound so terrible in the scheme of things, but I thought it was absolutely horrific. :-) Okay, now on to the real anti-procrastination task. Strength training and treadmill!

    10. DDJ*

      Thank you! I ended up getting my consolidated report finished, sent out a bunch of emails that needed to get done, updated a bunch of spreadsheets, and submitted a benefits claim that I’ve been too lazy to get done. Hurray!

  11. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Ha, got in early!

    I have been working for five weeks at my legal contract job paying over twice my usual rate, and I keep telling myself not to get too comfortable with the increased money, because it’s only for now and my IbR for loans also went up this year.

    But it’s hard! I really like not making lunches any more because I go out, or getting coffee more than the once a week I previously did. I like not having to be “careful” and maybe wait to buy a coffee or gas or go out somewhere until after a paycheck drops.

    I’m still saving some, but how does one be careful when variable income goes (way) up, while still enjoying oneself?

    1. Emmie*

      Allow yourself these initial indulgences. You haven’t had them for a while. After you’ve had a few months of this, it might be easier to occasionally indulge. You have my IBR sympathies. Congratulations!

    2. neverjaunty*

      Enjoy what you’re doing now! Small indulgences (like a coffee or a sandwich) aren’t going to kill you if you have good financial habits.

    3. ReanaZ*

      Set up your payroll deductions to give yourself only a partial ‘raise’ into your bank account and auto-deposit the rest into savings you don’t look at regularly. Can’t spend what you don’t see!

      1. OhNo*

        ^ This! That is my number one trick for keeping myself to a budget, regardless of the reason. Put the money somewhere else, where I can’t see it or get to it easily, and it might as well not exist.

        You can (and should!) give yourself a little extra to enjoy those indulgences while you’re able, but you can both budget and indulge as long as you plan for it.

      2. Ashley*

        Yes! Give yourself a small buffer but try to live on the old as much as possible so you don’t have major problems next year.
        Treat yourself but set a limit. (Pre-paid gift cards have helped me with the coffee runs.)

        1. nonymous*

          I think prepaid cards would also quell the “I’d better indulge while I can!” feeling.

          Say HighPayingJob allows for a budget of $30/week in coffee & treats while still savings. If overcaffeinatedandqueer buys the cards every week while at this pay rate, and doesn’t use them all she will still be able to use the balance even after downshifting to lower pay. There’s nothing wrong with small indulgences within budget. full stop. no guilt!

    4. Morning Glory*

      Instead of stressing over small luxuries. why not set a savings goal each month, and set a goal for paying extra on any debt each month? Choose amounts that will give you a bit of wiggle room for indulgences, and as long as you meet your goals, don’t feel guilty about buying lunch or coffee sometimes.

    5. Sualah*

      When I finally got a big raise and got to a more “comfortable” place, I figured out how much I needed per paycheck and I have my direct deposit split into my checking and savings, and the same amount always goes into my checking and any extra goes right into savings. (Even if it’s just a little bit extra, like working one hour of overtime.) This is based on my net pay, so all my 401k and all that are already taken out.

      Example numbers: Say that my net pay with base, no OT, working 40 hours/week is $1286.19. Say that I generally need about $1100/week and I am able to pay all my bills and have a few indulgences (like if I made $1100 net, the water would be right at my head, but not over). So $1100 into checking and $186.19 into savings. And when I have some extra pay, say $1463.12 net, $363.12 goes into savings that week. If I go over my $1100 and I pull from savings, that’s not the end of the world, but I know to watch it and I know to bring some lunches next week (or whatever).

      For me, using this method I started with putting about $66/paycheck into savings and now it’s over $500 as my salary has increased. But when I had braces and my FSA payment increased, there was a time it went from something like $170 into savings to just under $100. But I didn’t feel that as much because I was budgeting on my “base” of the example $1100. (And also, I didn’t have to make braces payments out of my net pay, which helped.)

      I don’t know if this makes any sense, but maybe it was helpful. I hope you can find a system that works for you!

    6. Your Weird Uncle*

      I’m in the same boat! One thing that I do, which helps put my mind at ease, is through a subscription to YNAB (although you could totally do this yourself, you just have to be pretty disciplined). I make sure that I have my bills budgeted ahead of time, so, for instance, now that I’m switching jobs and not quite sure when my next paycheck is going to drop, I know that at least I can cover my car payment, student loan, etc. through October. Then any extra money I will either put toward another payment coming up in November, or a few indulgences, or a mixture of both. I find it helps me stay on track without either being completely miserly or worrying that I’m not going to have my bills covered.

      1. spocklady*

        I want to second YNAB — I’ve found it to be so so helpful. I don’t worry vaguely anymore that “I’m not saving enough” because I have some concrete things I have savings goals for (and, as @Your Weird Uncle says, I’m budgeted out a ways in advance, so next month is already covered. Which took some time to get to but it’s great).

        So now, it’s easier for me to stop having feeeelings about my money (oh my god I used to have so many feelings) and be a little more objective and think about it as choices. Like, ok, I just got a paycheck in; once I’ve covered what I need to cover, how much extra do I want to put towards Goal X, and how much do I want to put into, like, restaurants or clothes or books or whatever? Then if I’m getting close to my arbitrary budget limit, I get to re-evaluate.

        Anyway. Clearly I am a super nerd about budgeting, but you might try giving it a shot!

    7. State govt employee*

      Can you have a set amount automatically transferred from checking to savings every paycheck date?

    8. Leena Wants Cake*

      If you do want to treat yourself during a “fat” time, but also don’t want to feel deprived during a “lean” time, use the extra money toward something that will continue to benefit you months down the road. If coffee is your luxury, maybe get a nicer coffee maker or coffee flask (to inspire yourself to bring your own–both now and in the future) or stock up on k-cups in exciting flavors to use at the office. Nice pens/stationary, stockpiled snacks (assuming you have enough self control to eat them all at once), or monthly delivery service subscription of your choice can all cheer you up down the road. Or get a few nice items of winter clothing that you’ll enjoy breaking out many months from now. You’ll get the thrill of the purchase now (while you can afford it), but be able to enjoy it even if the money dries up.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        That makes sense! I am going to buy a fitness tracker with mindfulness exercises, first, as the lasting thing. Take away some worry during lean times!

      2. spocklady*

        OOoohhh, that’s a great idea!

        FWIW, even though I just gushed above about YNAB, I did used to do the “auto-deposit x of my paycheck into savings I don’t look at often” and that worked pretty well too. Good luck!

    9. Not So NewReader*

      You could stash some small bills away at home. For example, I put my change and ones in a jar. On leaner weeks I have a couple bucks to get a coffee or two.

      Self-deprivation does not work. In some cases it causes irrational spending if there is a sudden pool of money available. Find ways to put treats into your week. You could consider making a batch of cookies at home to take to work with you.
      I fill glass water bottles from my filtered water system at home so I do not buy bottled water when I am out. This frees up funds to get a treat once in a while. Sometimes you can make shifts and gain wiggle room that way.

      Oddly setting long term goals can help off-set the need for something immediate. If you know that you are saving for X and in Y time frame you will be able to get X, then it might be easier to drink that coffee from home than go buy one.

      For myself, no single strategy works. I need several and I need to rotate through them.
      And I also like to watch how emotions play into my purchasing decisions. “Damn. I have had a rough day. I SO deserve this coffee/pizza/whatever.” Reality is that there are other things I can chose to help ease my rough day.
      For years, I loved buying my lunch out. Then I did the math. I could make my own lunch at home for 66% less cost per day. And this idea motivated me for quite a while. After a bit, my health issues motivated me to watch my eating choices. And I had to plan ahead for random cravings. This one finally cured me of eating in restaurants a lot.

      Where I am at now: There is a freedom to not having to make a lunch. But this freedom is a sneak thief. It can chew up extra cash and it can encourage bad eating habits which impact health later on. In my life the freedom from making lunches at home was an illusion. It wasn’t freedom.

    10. Cloud Nine Sandra*

      I keep a budget, one that I did myself on Excel because I heart excel. Started off by listing all my bills, including voluntary donations or subscription boxes or the like. Doctors appts, if you have those regularly. Prescription medication. Make a row marked savings as well. Also any regular dependable grooming: eyebrow wax or hair cut. That’s my vertical axis. Across the top I list my payday and what each check should be. (I don’t have PTO, so my check varies depending on holidays, etc.) At the bottom I see what I’ll have leftover after each pay period’s bills. Mine currently goes out to March 2018. Once you see what’s left over after your absolutely must pay, you can better decide what to do with it. Put some in savings. Put some in the splurge at Amazon category. Put some in the eating out category. I am not in the realm of having yay increased paychecks, so this helps me not overspend. But planning ahead will let you see if certain bills go up, how much you might need in reserve to eat twice a week.

    11. attornaut*

      For me, the easiest thing is to give myself permission to do something X days a week. So if I bring in lunch from home Monday-Thursday during the week, I’ve earned a Friday lunch takeout guilt-free. If one of those days I get takeout, I lose my Friday lunch treat.

    12. Random Thoughts*

      I kind of split the difference with my lunches. I make really excellent lunches on Sunday afternoons and spend more than I previously did but nowhere near as much as buying lunch daily. Today, I’m marinating duck, that I’ll be slow roasting later to shred and wrap in rice paper rolls with salad and chutney. It makes me look forward to my packed lunch each day, rather than think “I’ll go eat my peanut butter sandwich again”.

      Where I work I’d spend $10 to $15/day on lunches and I decided I’d rather do something else with that money. Maybe there’s better prices where you are and my suggestion wouldn’t help but I thought I’d throw it out there.

  12. Berry*

    My friend just started a new job (first week) and is still learning the software and getting up to speed, however she finds while she’s done for the day by 5-6pm, everyone else in her office is pulling 12 hours days, which she didn’t expect. She’s been finding that she’s been sticking around for an extra hour or two doing nothing just to seem like she’s not leaving way earlier than anyone else, but doesn’t know how to politely leave at the end of her workday.

    (For context, this isn’t something she expected in the interview, and from what it seems this is new since the guy she was hired to replace left, and hopefully it’ll speed up as they hire new people to cover the amount of work.)

    I remember seeing a question a little while back about how to figure out what time is appropriate to leave at the end of the day when starting a new job, but couldn’t find it. Anyone else know what I’m talking about, or have any advice I can pass on?

    1. k8*

      my dad’s advice has always been to make sure you’re at least leaving after your boss . . . which hasn’t actually always been applicable for me at least, but might be a place to start?

      1. jmm*

        Yikes, I think this might need to be filed under well-intentioned but bad advice. Or maybe I have always just worked for workaholics – but my boss routinely stays until 7-8 p.m. and comes in at 6-7 a.m., and she’d have to triple my salary to get me to do that.

        1. k8*

          Yeah, in my current industry people are pretty respectful of normal working hours and having a healthy work/life balance, so it made sense when i was starting out to help me get a gauge of what was expected of me– but in the past when I was an assistant to a high-powered ad exec who left the office at god knows when, it certainly didn’t make much sense at all.

      2. SarahKay*

        My boss used to worry when I did that! Her feeling was that she’s the boss, she’s paid to suck it up and work the bad hours when needed, while I was not paid for that and should not do it. I mean, there were crazy weeks when we both had to do long hours, but for sure she didn’t expect, want, or like, me to do longer hours than she did.

      3. Kristina*

        Noooo! I mean, it depends on your boss I guess but I manage a team of five and I get nervous if I see anyone consistently staying later than me, since I already stay later than most people at our office. Obviously there are exceptions but my general philosophy (which I inherited from a previous manager) is, I’m ok if it’s me burning the midnight oil but I don’t want to put that on my team. Again it depends, but if I had an employee who consistently stayed later than me I might worry that they have too much on their plate and are in danger of burning out.

    3. Evil HR Person-like Being*

      Does she have a concrete start-and-stop time, like from an offer letter? She should leave when her work is done, and since she’s new, her work right now is learning (which isn’t really *done* ever!). Eventually, when she becomes part of the projects that everyone else is working on, she’ll have to pull those 12-hour days, so she should enjoy the early days that being a newbie afford her. But if she feels awkward about it, she should say to her boss: “I’m feeling awkward leaving at 6pm while everyone else is still working, but I don’t have anything else to do after that time.” Her boss will probably help her with the awkwardness OR give her more work!

    4. Siberian*

      My experience is that in new jobs, you aren’t busy at first. You’re not fully trained so you’re not doing all the duties you’ll do when you get up to speed. So however she decides to handle it, she should keep in mind that her current situation is temporary.

      The other thing I’ll add is that my friend always says “begin as you mean to go on.” If your friend is not the kind of person who is willing to hang around pointlessly, or work unpaid extra time, then she might consider setting that standard up front. It all depends on the climate where she is. I was very clear about the time I left one of my early jobs—they paid me for 16 hours/week, I had a tiny baby at home, and at 2 pm I left. Period. I budged only for emergencies (and then did so cheerfully). That was fine when I was an admin in a low-stress environment. Won’t fly everywhere.

  13. Annoyamouse*

    So there is a woman in my office who is super nice and decent at her job, and as my office is growing in size, some of her duties shifted and she’s now been moved into my corridor. And she has the. world’s. loudest. laugh. It’s big and loud, and while it’s fine when we’re socializing, she’s now in my hall and it irritates me at least two to five times a day, because we’re a casual yet high-achieving department and all friendly, and laughing is normal and the camaraderie around here is a great perk of the job.

    I don’t want to do anything about it, but I’m hoping other people might want to commiserate with me about the little things that drive you just a bit crazy about the people you work with. Not big things, but small: the song that your office mate gets stuck in your head once a month, or the way your colleague signs his e-mails, or whatever.

    1. Pearly Girl*

      Oh hells yeah.

      We have a high giggler who roams the halls.

      And we have a Whale Yawner. Think about that for a minute. Long, mournful yawns with sound effects.

      2. General Ginger*

        Oh, no, I think I might be a Whale Yawner. I hope I’m not your Whale Yawner, though!

    2. annamouse*

      oh, yeah, we have a loud laugher who sits near me too. Nice person, and I’m glad she’s happy, but sometimes the noise does… grate.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Oh my freaking god, I’m with you. There’s someone in my office who has the worst horse laugh ever. He’s not on my team, but because we’re an open office I hear him all. the. time.

      Solidarity, sister (brother?).

    4. Susan*

      Oh, yeah, I feel for you. I’ve had a couple of coworkers with really loud, annoying, frequent laughs, and it really gets on my nerves after a while!

      Other annoying coworkers:
      -The guy who says “literally” in almost every sentence that comes out of his mouth, even when there would not be any question as to whether he means it literally (“It literally just started raining.” “If you want to print this, you can literally just hit control-P.”)
      -The woman who loves to rearrange/reorganize/move stuff around for no real benefit, so the rest of us can never find supplies.

      2. I prefer tea*

        I work at a church and the choir room is directly below my office. A guy comes in once a week to practice his solos. He sings loudly, and with great passion…and little respect for the key. He is so flat, it’s like nails on a chalkboard.

        It’s not a joyful noise.

      3. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

        Do you work with Chris Traeger? :D I was totally hearing that with his inflection.

    5. stephistication1*

      I had a woman that sat across from me that sucked ice ALL DAY LONG. Was happy when she retired.

    6. Mononymous*

      In my last office it was the scream-sneezer! She must have had allergies because she’d sneeze every single day at least once or twice, and it was always preceded by a super-loud, sudden AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH that nearly made me jump out of my chair each time.

      1. Susan*

        I once had a coworker with incredibly loud, weird-sounding sneezes. He always sneezed three times in a row, followed by a loud yelling/grunting noise. It was honestly kind of frightening.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I had a coworker like that but he would sneeze five times. UNNRRRG UNNRRG UNNRRG UNNRRG UNNRRG!

          If he stopped at four, all you had to do was wait–there was always another one.

        2. jpchatham*

          I’ve never heard of anyone else who does multiple sneezes! It’s good to know I’m not alone! It’s always multiples of three for me – usually just 3, but if there’s a lot of pollen in the air it’ll be 6 or even 9. 15 is my record (it gets hard to breathe after a while; I don’t recommend it).

          I don’t think I’m particularly obnoxious about it though. I definitely don’t yell at the end.

        3. Nic*

          I’ve gone through various sneeze patterns in my life. For a long time if it was more than 2 in a row I’d get sick, and then for a while it was 3 every. single. time.

          My mom sneezes in primes. It’s really funny when she hits the 8th sneeze, because she knows it’s going to be 11. I don’t think she’s gone past that.

      4. Kristen*

        Lol, I hope that’s not me. I sneeze at least a few times a day and don’t hold back. My sneezes are very satisfying.

    7. WellRed*

      We used to gave a giggler who’d ocassionally shriek. As one co worker put it on a particularly bad day: “my ears are bleeding.” I also have a very vocal sneezer (literally amd loudly would AaaaaCHOOOO!) I finally asked her to be more mindful of that. It worked!

      1. nonymous*

        I wonder if a lot of these sneeze-noise issues could be addressed by covering their mouth/nose? ya know? not just for preventing the spread of germs!

    8. Sualah*

      I sat next to a whistler. OMG. Nicest guy in the world–he invited me, and I went, to his wedding–but sometimes I couldn’t stand it.

      I had vented about this to my sister once and she made all the right noises, “Oh, yes, must be awful” but a couple years later she sat close to a whistler and was like, “OMG now I know, I didn’t take you very seriously before!”

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I had another coworker who whistled but he did it really well and very quietly, like under his breath, and he would also sing and make up funny words to songs. You never knew what he would come out with. He made me laugh so much.

    9. Squeeble*

      Oh, yeah. My coworker’s desk phone ringtone is just a man’s voice asking “Are you there?…Are you there?” The thing is, it sounds almost EXACTLY like my coworker’s voice, so at first I thought he was just saying it himself. He thinks it’s hilarious.

    10. Rookie Manager*

      One of my team ALWAYS writes ‘were’ as ‘where’. It drives me round the bend. It wouldn’t be so bad if she wasn’t the proof-reader for half the team and didn’t dream of becoming a teacher. She also hates full stops, or I presume she does because they never appear at the end of a paragraph (mid para sentances are normally puntuated).

      1. nonymous*

        That makes me remember, my mom used to refer to full stops as “foot stops”. Because the dot sticks out to the bottom right, like a little foot at the end of your sentence.

    11. Hellanon*

      One of my office mates (not part of my work group, but in an office in our area) is the King of LOUD. His speaking voice is loud, his laugh is louder, and even through a closed door you can hear him. Nice guy, but jeez…. no volume switch.

      1. SarahKay*

        Oh, I have that, although in this case it’s the person in the next desk over. He works mostly with remote teams, so has a lot of calls and does them all in a very clear, carrying voice.
        Mostly I can ignore them but sometimes…Grrr!

    12. Lora*

      The people who do not respect the Headphones Rule. People, I have bright blue headphones. You can SEE them. That means don’t bug me, because I am busy.

      I hate open offices.

    13. Alice Ulf*

      I love my boss, but she has such an obnoxious ringtone on her personal cell and she invariably forgets to turn the volume down at the office. I’ll just be working steadily in silence and then suddenly, at full volume:

      ONE MORE DRINK LEADS TO ANOTHER YOU SLIDE UP CLOSE TO ME TEARING T-SHIRTS OFF EACH OOOOOTHER~~YOUR HANDS ALLLLLL OVER MEEEE

      1. spocklady*

        Oh my god.

        That must be awful, but I almost did a spit take on my screen picturing that. How is she not totally mortified? How…what?

        I had a text notification that I was…pretty sure was starting to annoy my office mate, so I got a new one and let her know (yeah, it was past “starting to” I’m pretty sure from the look she gave me) but also I started just putting my phone on vibrate when I walked into the building. Because she was lovely and I didn’t want her to stab me.

        Seriously. What is your boss thinking?

      2. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

        Someone in my office had a text notification that was a duck quacking. Funny the first couple of times and then drove everyone crazy, including our ultra-mild-mannered GM, who eventually sent an email out demanding that whoever had the god-awful ring tone needed to turn it off or change it immediately.

      3. OhNo*

        Oh, man. I have been guilty of this on occasion in the past (to a lesser degree, I hope). I usually have my ringer on silent, but in the rare event it’s on I always accidentally leave it really loud. The only plus is that my ringtone sounds like crickets, so instead of music, it’s SUDDENLY BUGS CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP.

      4. Elizabeth West*

        Oh God, that’s awful!

        Bullyboss at OldExjob had the sting song “Roxanne” as his ringtone for a while. So we’d be sitting there and suddenly, “Roooooooooooooooooooxaaanne! You don’t have to put on the red light!” would happen. For a good twenty minutes after that, the sales guys would look at each other and quietly go, “rooooooxaanne!” and then laugh their butts off.

        Another coworker at Exjob had “Kung Fu Fighting”–a song where the mere mention of the title will get it stuck in my head, a dog barking, and a crazy man’s laugh as her ringtones (clearly assigned to different people). Top volume, of course.

      6. Chicago Recruiter*

        I like that song *slinks away*… but as a ringtone I can see how that would be annoying. There is an otherwise delightful lady who works in my department whose ringtone is the theme from a popular sitcom and the text tone is a main characters catchphrase and it goes off All. Day. Long.

    14. YarnOwl*

      Last Halloween, one of the people who sits in my vicinity , changed their ringtone to the slasher music from Psycho, and they never changed it back. This person also happens to be one of those kinds of people who just lets their phone ring and ring and ring and ring, so a few times a week we hear the slasher music going through the office and just have to listen to it for a minute until it stops ringing! It might not seem like a lot, but it drives me bananas!!!

      1. JustaTech*

        I have a coworker who had the “whistle song” from Kill Bill as his ring tone, and would often leave his phone at his desk when he was in the lab. Eventually I freaked me out enough times I had to ask him to switch it (which he did very graciously).

      2. EasilyAmused*

        At PreviousJob, we would hear the breathy tones from Friday the 13th every time co-worker got a text. Eeh eeh eeh ehh Aah aah aah aah. Every.single.day throughout the whole.damn.day

    15. Gloria Burgle*

      We have a person that will sneeze about 20 times in a row every few hours. And of course it’s not a quiet muffled sneeze. I want to leave some allergy medicine on their desk. :p

    16. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      When I first started at my university, the provost’s EA (whose office was 20 feet from mine) had a big whooping high-pitched laugh — Whaaaaaaa hahahahahah whaaaaaaa hahahahahah. It was cartoonish with a big whooping wind up. I just had to go to the break room and have some tea when she got started.

      I share an office with a very loud sneezer. Since he doesn’t sneeze top often, it’s not that bad to me, but others on the floor have complained. About every 10th sneeze though is SUPER loud and echo-y and gives me an adrenaline rush from the shock.

      Years ago I shared an open office space with a hummer/whistler/tapper/singer. Nice guy but he seriously couldn’t stop making noise. I joked that he had musical Tourette’s and his wife completely agreed with me. Over time I just got used to it so it became like white noise.

    17. Princess Carolyn*

      The woman two cubicles down from me has the loudest phone voice. And of course she spends a lot of her day on the phone, often talking to people who are in potentially noisy places. I can hear her every word, even through my noise-canceling headphones. She’s perfectly nice and just doing her job, but some days it drives me nuts.

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        I can relate. in my office we have a guy who talks EXTREMELY LOUD!! Almost to the point of screaming.

        1. Windchime*

          We have this guy in our office, too. He doesn’t ever seem to sit at his own desk; instead, he either rolls a chair over or stands in someone else’s cube and hollers at them. Not necessarily work-related; he is an expert on many topics (I now know more than I ever needed to know about solar eclipses). And he talks so Urgently! Everything he says! Is URGENT! Because he is an EXPERT!

      2. zora*

        We have two really loud phone talkers. And work in very small shared offices. One of my coworkers has tried to talk to them about it, but one of the Loud Talkers got super emotional and was tearing up, so coworker refuses to bring it up again.

        It’s so funny to me because their normal voices are totally normal, but as soon as they pick up the phone the volume goes way up. But, my work is super easy so I’m able to just laugh about it, my poor coworker has a lot of heavy concentration-required work, and it drives her insane.

    18. LCL*

      The way one of my coworkers will explain something to a coworker, that I just explained. It’s not mansplaining though, he does this with everything anyone tells him. it’s like it hasn’t happened unless he said it.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I had a boss like this. He had to explain everything three times, and if you stopped him at all, even to say “Thanks, I got it,” so you could leave, he would get mad.

    19. Allie Oops*

      I have a Sailor Sneezer. His vocalization during the sneeze sounds…much like a word for feces.

    20. spocklady*

      Ugh. Good luck.

      I currently sit next to a very nice person who has some unusual vocal mannerisms. It has taken me a few months to get used to it. I’m most of the way there now, I think.

      1. Windchime*

        I used to work with a guy who I am pretty sure had a form of Tourette’s. He had a lot of vocal tics, and one was that he would make a “p-kew” sound, like little kids make when they are pretending to shoot with their fingers. He would do it over and over again till it nearly drove me mad. But it seemed to be something that he truly could not control.

    21. Gee Gee*

      The Finger Snapper walked behind me at the exact moment I started reading this. Apparently this guy needs an internal metronome to remember how to walk, because all GD day he goes around snapping in the exact rhythm of his footsteps. I kind of want to tape his hands to see if he falls down.

      1. SarahKay*

        Oh, gosh, so much this. There are two or three people who will walk the length of our office (about 40 feet) snapping their fingers. On good days I want to tape their fingers together. On bad days, my feelings are more about snapping their fingers off…

    22. Detective Amy Santiago*

      At old job (a cube farm), there was someone at the other end of my row for a while who was the loudest typer I have ever heard. Like, I cannot even replicate how loud she banged the keyboard without hurting my fingers.

      1. spocklady*

        Apparently there are quiet typers and aggressive typers. I’m in the second category (I know, I’m sorry, it’s just…really hard to even notice I’m doing it most of the time); my old office mate told me she used to call people like us “angry typers.”

        I sound like a terrible person to work next to (I am a loud-ish, often multiple, sneezer, no vocalizations that I know of though; also I crack my knuckles a lot) but same old office mate literally just messaged me yesterday that she missed me. Out of the blue. So I must have some redeeming qualities!

    23. only acting normal*

      I hate full open plan…
      *Three* super loud sneezers, two of whom sit right by me.
      *Two* super loud telephone talkers, who sit across the pseudo-corridor but I can still hear every word.
      I fear I’m the one with the loud laugh (small children stare at me when I laugh, adults are usually too polite) – sorry world.
      One colleague will throw things to get my attention if I have headphones on. >:(
      Desk-meetings – not quick fly-by questions, but sitting down for 4 fricking hours and talking through work on the screen. GET A ROOM!
      I have a colleague who sits on another quieter floor, and keeps trying to get me to move to sit at the free desk next to him, but… he’s a terrible fidget – as in jingling the coins in his pocket, or opening and closing the metal clasp on his watch all. the. time. *click-click click-click click-click* AARGH!

    24. Aealias*

      I AM the annoying coworker. I have the world’s loudest hiccups. I don’t know why. Muffling them is often impossible, and it’s genuinely painful to try. The uninitiated have taken me for a scream of horror or a barking dog. Luckily, I get them very rarely, and usually only one or two at a time. Unluckily, their rarity means when the DO happen, there’s always one person around who’s never heard them before, and jumps out of their skin.

      1. Nic*

        I don’t know what it is about CurrentJob, but I’ve had hiccups so often since I’ve been here. They’re not terribly loud, but they’ll go on for hours.

        I just know all my coworks are probably either pitying me or wishing me harm by the time they go away. I have not found a successful remedy.

    25. B. Mech*

      My sweet, enthusiastic coworker is a skin picker. Makes me feel queasy and anxious seeing her claw at her scabby upper arms

      1. Rainbow Hair Chick*

        I worked with a girl who would whine when she needed something eg Wakeeeeennnnn? I finally pulled her aside and told her to use her Big Girl Voice when she needed something.

    26. I'd rather be blue*

      Yep, I am another one of those “open office” drones. The woman next to me has what I can only describe as “weeping voice.” She constantly sounds like she’s about to burst into tears or have a massive anxiety attack. She’s on the phone constantly and often describes her health issues in a loud, detailed manner. She also slams things around and reacts loudly to everything. Total office dementor.

      Also, the open office is next to our rehearsal space, which we rent out. Highlights from that include:
      – Loud wubbing experimental electronic music…all day.
      – Shouting auditions, from the sounds of it.
      – Christmas carols for 3 months.
      – Drumming…just drumming.

      Headphones are a must.

      1. Rainbow Hair Chick*

        Just remembered one more in cubicle farm! We had a lady who would sigh loudly EVERY time her phone rang. She worked in a call centre as customer service so this happened a lot.

        1. Can I let it go to voicemail?*

          Haha! I worked in a customer service call center and HATED IT. I wonder how often I sighed when my phone rang…

    27. Chaordic One*

      In my previous job there were couple of people like this. One was a strikingly attractive young woman with long dark hair who had this bizarre laugh that sort of like Mortimer Snerd. Then there was the department head, an odd looking middle-aged man who laughed like Goofy.

    28. Amelia*

      I had a coworker at a previous job who was…memorable. She would burp relatively quietly, but audibly, through the entire day. Through any conversation you had with her. Through meetings. While just sitting at her desk. I counted once when we were in a meeting together and she burped 9 times a minute. I am sure she had a health issue, but it was just awful to have to listen to–it made me feel kind of queasy.

  14. Anonymous Max*

    What is a kind, helpful way to guide co-workers I don’t manage to do their own tasks? A loosely related question came up a day or so ago on how to direct your reports to look for information before asking, and it made me think of asking you all for help.

    I am a program manager for a research program – I support the program’s director and work on programmatic activities like HR, budgeting, events, seminars, and resources for program affiliates. I also manage one direct report who is the office manager in our off-campus location.

    My boss, the director, is the PI on two new large grants, and there are two new(ish) study coordinator/project managers overseeing these studies. Both are great, smart and productive, but relatively new to the field. They do have prior experience in their roles but it is not extensive.

    I have been helping orient them to areas within the larger research center, getting them in contact with the accountants and grant managers and other people who support us. However, the impression they get from these interactions is that it is my job to interface with the center support staff on their behalf.

    They are emailing me to ask questions that should be directed to the center support staff about the studies they manage, like, “Did such and such invoice get paid?” They know that I don’t have access to this level of financial information, so this question is actually, “Can you contact the accountant whose name and email I already have to ask this question on my behalf?”

    I gently re-direct and let them know who to contact (again), but it isn’t seeming to take, because I am still getting a lot of these requests, and I feel like the perception on their part is that I am being obstructive.

    A point of confusion may be that I am the person they go through to submit personal reimbursements, so I will email the accountants for programmatic expenses they incur (software, travel, etc.). I’m responsible for our program budget, determine the funds that will be used for purchases, and am the first level of approval for these expenses, so this is really my job. Managing invoices and other tasks for their studies is their responsibility as project managers/study coordinators.

    I don’t manage these folks, and this is complicated by the fact that they also work for my boss, who is extremely hands-off and non-confrontational and won’t help me with this. So I’m on my own. Our institution doesn’t provide any training for these roles so while they both do have some previous experience I thought would inform their grasp of their responsibilities, I don’t know how things were done and I can’t really expect them to intuit the boundaries here. And it shouldn’t fall to me to explain the differences in our roles, but I’m happy to do it if I can find a way that doesn’t seem presumptuous or condescending.

    What is your advice for how to handle this? Sending an email delineating what I’m responsible for and what they’re responsible for seems obnoxious, but I can’t think of another way to do this. Have a meeting? I need help with wording that is empathetic but doesn’t throw my boss or my institution generally under the bus.

    I should say that I am happy to step in and help with their roles when they genuinely need it, like in case of a higher-level need (like they need an alternate account when grant funds haven’t hit yet), or to organize the 50-person quarterly study calls (which have to be based on my busy boss’ calendar). But most of the requests I’m receiving are squarely within their abilities and are in fact their responsibility as project managers for these studies. I think it’s just easier to ask me, and they continue to do it even though I have been re-directing them for a while now.

    Any advice welcome!

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      You have to address the pattern, not just individual occurrences. This is harder because you’re not their manager and you can’t make them stop the requests, but you can address the pattern (I’d recommend doing so in person, not in an email, and then sending an email recap so that they have it for reference). Then it’s in their head that they need to look elsewhere for X, Y, and Z. If they don’t, you can reply back with, “As we talked about, this is a Lucinda request.”

    2. Hmmmmm*

      I usually pull a “am I passive aggressive or am I genuinely confused, the world will never know” move and email back something to the effect of “Hi Becky, I am confused by your email. Are you having difficulty contacting Greg directly?”

    3. WellRed*

      If your institution doesn’t provide training (!?) How has onboarding new people worked in the past?

      1. Anonymous Max*

        We are a small, relatively new program within our larger center. Up till now we have hired more experienced people, so they had to learn how to do their work within our center, but already have a good grasp of what their work is. So they would ask the questions of who to contact, but would do the work themselves. Onboarding is always a little hairy though. Why is there no training? Great question. My bet is $$.

    4. Ama*

      Oof, yeah I’ve worked on both sides of academic research admin (started at a university, I’m now at a granting organization) and I’ve dealt with a lot of this, particularly with new coordinators. I suspect you are right that since they know you can either give them the answer or tell them who can help them they just now default to you.

      One thing I used to do when I was dealing with similar situations is make some “cheat sheets” or checklists that spelled out who to contact for what responsibilities or what information they’d need to have ready if they needed my assistance (the latter only if it was a task I was actually supposed to be doing). That way when new coordinators/postdocs came on I could hand them the sheets, and if they came to me asking a question that needed to be redirected, I politely reminded them that the info they needed was on the sheet *without* telling them what the info was. That made it no longer more efficient to ask me, because all I was doing was telling them to look at the info they already had. It’s a little more work upfront to make the cheat sheets the first time, but the end result was worth it.

      1. Anonymous Max*

        This is a great idea. And I could frame it as, “since these questions come up frequently, I thought this might come in handy…” And it might even lead into a conversation about who does what. I had been thinking along the lines of an email but just an informal conversation seems a lot less of an overreach. I make cheat sheets for other things (travel reimbursements, oh man) and they do save lots of time. Thanks!

    5. Alice*

      I think you’ve made a very thoughtful analysis of the situation when you say “I can’t really expect them to intuit the boundaries.”
      Why shouldn’t it fall to you to explain the different in roles? Obviously, in practice, since your boss won’t do it, you need to. But I think that training/on-boarding doesn’t have to be done by the boss.
      It’s only condescending if it’s framed as “I can’t believe you don’t know this!” — and you don’t sound like you’d take that approach.
      The only potential problem I see is that if you wait too much longer, that might introduce some awkwardness — “I can’t believe Max didn’t tell me this earlier… I wonder if there’s something else that’s annoying him that he hasn’t mentioned?”
      So, go for it — email, cheat sheet, with or without a meeting. It’ll be good for you, them, and your boss to have everyone on the same page.
      Good luck! (But honestly I don’t think you need any — I’m sure the outcome will be positive.)

      1. Anonymous Max*

        Thank you! It shouldn’t fall to me because we are technically peers. If I was hired somewhere and a random co-worker started telling me what was and wasn’t my job, I wouldn’t be thrilled, even if it was a person I relied on for institutional knowledge. It just feels presumptuous. It should be coming from the actual manager, but it won’t, so therein lies my dilemma. I agree with you that I need to form a plan soon. This is very helpful!

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Wherever did you get this idea?

          I often give this kind of info to peers and would feel obstructive if I knowingly withheld it.

        2. CrazyEngineerGirl*

          But you’re not really telling them what is and isn’t their job, at least you don’t have to frame/think of it that way. You can just lay out that what they are (frequently) asking you to do, is not YOUR job.

    6. fposte*

      I would have a meeting, and I would create a reference document. I’d go with “We all have a lot on our plates, so it’s helpful to be clear what the expectations are for support and responsibility.” If they try to make you handle the comms after that, I’d nicely but openly ask them why.

      (For people who asked about training: I don’t think there’s anything like that at my state university, and I don’t think we’re unusual. It’s all from experience.)

      1. Anonymous Max*

        This is a good idea. I am struggling some with what I would say in a meeting, because when I start thinking about how to frame it, I very quickly start finding myself thinking things like, “management tasks for your study are your responsibility as project managers” and it sounds condescending and ridiculous. I know I need to keep it factual, but the facts seem pretty self-explanatory to me. Is it project-related? It’s yours. Is it programmatic? It’s mine. I want to keep the ‘duh’ tone out of my voice/demeanor. I really like these people and I don’t want to come off as any bigger of a jerk than I absolutely have to.

        1. fposte*

          If it makes you feel better, avoid pronouns. “Here’s what the program manager handles; here’s what project coordinators handle.”

      2. Not So NewReader*

        This works.
        And OP, there is nothing wrong with creating that chart.
        And you can present it as, “for your convenience you can call these folks directly”. Then show why it is helpful to them, “You don’t have to wait for my answer” or “The relay system doubles your wait time” or “Asking directly means you get the exact question answered, NOT what I think your question might be”.

        There is nothing insulting about telling people to directly contact someone. I prefer it personally. I hate using go-betweens. Usually my question gets misunderstood, or lost. And sometimes the answer causes me to have even more questions. noooo. Please don’t make me do this. Let me talk to the person myself.

        Go ahead and make that chart. Tell them if they aren’t sure who to call they can call you and ask. I think just doing this much will cut your calls substantially.

    7. Rainy, not-PI*

      I was program manager *and* PI for a very large grant program until a few months ago, and because of some complexities about how our program worked, I was the “single point of contact” on our side.

      I just forwarded emails to the people they needed to go to, without comment. If this isn’t in your job description, though, I think in the future maybe less hands-on “training” and more “here’s the contact list” might serve you well. Since you are past that point with these two people, try the “clueless or passive-aggressive” approach listed above for a month, and if that doesn’t yield any results, you’re going to have to go talk to the PI and tell her “You have to talk to your project managers, they email me constantly about things that aren’t my job and it’s interfering with my ability to actually do my job.” A single line email from the PI is going to mean more than a million emails from you. It’s frustrating but there it is. I can’t tell you how often one of my researchers and one of my admin staff would be fighting for weeks over something, and when I finally found out and would send a single email saying nothing different than my admin had been saying, the researcher would back down immediately–and usually thank me for correcting their misunderstanding!

      1. Anonymous Max*

        Ha! I can totally see this. I think another part of the problem is that the PI himself directs them to me as a matter of course because I am his right hand (“Ask Max about that,” “Max will know who to contact,” etc.). He assumes that they know their job and will just ask me for the info and do it. I have the ability to email “as” my PI (as you mention, I get a much better response!), but it would be so out of character for him to give any actual detail or direction, they’d see through that immediately if I tried to direct them via email puppetry.

        And he himself will never talk to them about this, it just isn’t his thing and he doesn’t have time. I know if I ask, he’ll make it worse by pulling me in to tell them myself and I feel that will be super awkward. It does have the merit of being PI-sanctioned, so maybe that is a valid route if I can’t stop it by more subtle means.

        I absolutely will adopt this approach for future hires.

        1. Rainy, not-PI*

          I feel immense sympathy for you–the appeal to irrelevant authority at headquarters is kind of my least favourite thing ever, partially because it works and shouldn’t. I hope that a harder line while onboarding will help in future.

          If it’s any comfort, I think this happens a lot, so it’s almost certainly nothing you’ve been doing wrong.

        2. TL -*

          Can you ask him if you can draft a clarification email for him to read over and send? Say that it should have been included in the onboarding process but got overlooked.

  15. JustaTech*

    Need a reality check!
    Short version: Should I bother to apply to jobs where I will have to click a radio button that says I don’t have the experience and schooling the job wants? Will anyone even read my carefully crafted cover letter?

    Long version: I recently got a Master’s in Teapots. I really want to be a Teapot inspector with the city. I have seen several jobs come up (and applied for them) for Teapot Inspector that require 2 years experience (don’t have) or X course-hours in Teapot Inspection and X course-hours in Teapot statistics. I’ve got some course-hours in those, but not as many as the job wants, even if I count undergrad classes. (The application asks you to name each course, so I can’t fudge, or as my SO suggested, lie.)

    So far I’ve next-day rejections, which makes me think that no human is seeing my application or cover letter or anything. Is it not worth continuing to apply?

    1. Generic Administrator*

      I wouldn’t bother- our recruitment system just automatically rejects you and we just ignore anyone who goes into the no pile (and don’t even respond, our recruitment system is a joke but I digress…).

    3. Fabulous*

      If they don’t require a class list and only ask for experience, I’d fudge and click Yes. Then in whatever area lets you explain, let them know you have a Master’s in the area and XX years of transferable experience. That way you at least know your resume has had eyes on it…

    4. AndersonDarling*

      I’ve had applications that will throw you out of the ap as soon as you click the wrong radio button. But…there were discussions about answering the spirit of the question rather than the verbiage of the question. So if the question asks for 2 years experience in say, building maintenance, and you have 1 year maintenance plus 1/2 year mechanics plus 1/2 year construction then it is OK to answer yes.

      1. JustaTech*

        This is a career change for me, so while I’ve got (I think) a lot of transferable skills, I don’t have years at this specific thing.

        Dang. It’s so frustrating, like they only want people who went to a specific Master’s program or something.

    5. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’d say it depends on how specific the question is regarding the experience.

      For example – I posted a job recently that requires experience with a very specific version of software. If you answered no to that question, I wouldn’t review your materials. On the flip side, if it’s asking for something a little more abstract, I think it’s okay to give a broader answer.

    6. Undine*

      This might be a case for seeing if anyone you know on LinkedIn is at that company. Someone I worked for 15 years ago recently asked me for a referral via LinkedIn so he could bypass the online application. In his case, he had all the qualifications, but he’s at a high level (much higher than me), and so didn’t want to go through the cattle call. So someone might be happy to forward you on, even if they don’t know the hiring manager themselves.

    7. Zip Zap*

      Could you contact someone who works there and ask about it? That’s what I would do. I’d write them a letter summarizing what qualications you do and don’t have, making it clear that you would really like to become a Teapot Inspector, and ask what they would recommend. They might say you should take some additional classes first or something like that. But it could give you an advantage later on if you apply and they remember you.

  16. alice*

    I have a question for anyone in the UK.

    What’s with personal statements on CVs? Is this a thing? How important is it? In the US it’s considered really gimmicky and a waste of space, but I’ve heard they are necessary on a CV. Can someone shed some light?

    1. LucyUK*

      I don’t really rate them when I’m hiring, personally. It’s hard for candidates to have a good idea of what the role entails at the CV stage of the process, so their statements tend to talk about some vision they have that isn’t actually super aligned with the job. Also, they often fall foul of telling rather than showing – people pack them with a bunch of self-selected qualities and that means nothing unless they can demonstrate them to me in other ways as well as tell me.

      They’re also another bit of text on your CV, so if you’re not a strong writer (and I think it’s incredibly hard to write a good one of these even if you are a strong writer), you’ve given me more reasons to reject you by including a statement than I would have had otherwise.

      I can’t remember seeing one of these that didn’t come across as cheesy or lame to some degree, so I’d probably avoid including one unless it’s a norm in your industry or you’ve got something really compelling to say (and even then I’d rather see that in your cover letter ideally).

    2. Caro in the UK*

      I don’t think they’re useful either. Most places will ask for a cover letter or supporting statement as well as a CV, so all of the stuff that people are putting in personal statements can go in there instead (if it’s relevant, obviously!) And I’ve never seen one that’s actually been useful; they’re too short to convey anything really insightful, and take up space on a CV which could be used for expanding your accomplishments and achievements in each of your previous roles.

    3. Heth*

      When I was job hunting about 7 years ago my godmother (who worked in HR) looked over my CV and recommended I add one, which I did, although I never really liked it, felt it was a waste of space if I was also submitting a cover letter and cheesy. I scaled it right back as soon as I felt I could and wasn’t ignoring advice of someone who had given up time to help me!
      When I was recruiting (generally for people just out of school/uni) I would read it but never found it very informative, again I would far rather see a well written cover letter.
      My more recent jobs have all required application forms rather than CV’s though so my information isn’t that up-to-date. When I next look I don’t plan to add one.

    4. Rookie Manager*

      I’ve been shorlisting today and I hate them. They all sound cocky or smarmy or contrived. Hate them.

    5. London Engineer*

      I didn’t use one on my cv for my job right now but to be fair it was my first job post-graduation so not a huge amount of experience. I do have a short summary paragraph though – not sure if that’s the same thing?

    6. PX*

      Applied for and got a job in the UK without one. Good cover letter and strong CV are all you need.

    7. AnnaUK*

      I agree with what everyone else has said! They’re generally lame or sound arrogant but some of them do give me a giggle when shortlisting. I’ve always gone with a fairly bland cv accompanied by a cover letter explaining how interested I am in the role and why I’d be a good fit.

    8. SarahKay*

      Last time I was looking (ten years ago, so YMMV) I used one, on the advice of a CV writing book. All the agencies took the personal statement off my CV when they sent it out to employers. From that, I came to the conclusion to stop doing it, and I wouldn’t do it now.

  17. IsobelDeBrujah*

    Should I tell my boss that I’ve started taking antidepressants?

    As a result of a usually annoying trick of biology, they hit me right away I mean like inside four hours. Which is great. I think I’m doing well. But then I thought I was doing well before and WOW I was NOT. Part of me thinks it is a wise idea to let her know just in case I start acting erratically. Part of me thinks it is a bad idea because the danger exists that every bad day could be attributed to off meds or needing adjustment. Has anyone dealt with this dilemma?

    1. Anonymous Poster*

      Sadly there is still a lot of stigma attached to mental illness/disorders requiring treatment, and you’re a much better judge of your management than I am to know if that would apply in this situation.

      I’d suggest some vaguer verbiage though, since there’s no need to get into all the details. Frankly, it’s none of their business, and not to sound harsh but a good manager doesn’t really care about the details of your medical situation past, “how does this affect your ability to do the job we hired you for and how can we accommodate you?” I think a good way to approach the subject if you suspect that you are seeing changes in your behavior or actions, and are concerned that your supervisor will notice, is saying something like these suggestions:

      “I’ve started on a new medication and I think some of its side effects are affecting my behavior. I wanted to give you a heads up in case you notice anything out of the norm that we’re still working through all the kinks.”

      “I’m feeling self conscious about my behavior, and wanted to let you know that I’m starting a new medication that I think is affecting me. It’s nothing serious, and we’re working to get things where they need to be.”

      I mean, as far as every bad day being attributed to medications… I don’t know how that can be mitigated. It’s not like anyone needs to know the details, and plenty of medications for all sorts of conditions have mood altering side effects. This is nothing new, and there’s no need to explain anything. You simply are handling a medical issue, some of the side effects may affect your behavior, and you’re letting your supervisor know that to help head off any future awkward conversations and help them know something that may affect you professionally. That’s all, really.

      1. Purple snowdrop*

        I’ve done this in the past, just called it medication without saying anything about it being antidepressants. In my current job I might tell my line manager but if I started somewhere new I’d just fudge it.

    2. Resignation Question*

      I never disclosed that information. There’s way too much stigma, I think, and I didn’t want to bias my manager. If it ever becomes an issue, bring it up then as an explanation…but I wouldn’t bring it up preemptively.

      1. Allypopx*

        This, yes. Have it prepared (and I think Anonymous Poster offers some really good options) but unless you KNOW your boss will react well to it, don’t risk it. That does, ultimately, come down to your relationship with your boss, but if you’re doing better you don’t want a red letter attached to you unfairly moving forward.

        Also congratulations.

    3. CR*

      I would only disclose if the adjustment period was causing problems (when I started taking them they made me really tired for a few weeks).

      1. Beatrice*

        And then you can always say that you’ve started a new medication for a medical issue, and you’re dealing with some side effects. There’s no need to disclose the kind of medication or what it’s for.

    4. Argh!*

      You never know what someone’s attitude toward mental illness is until you find out the hard way. If you feel you have to say something, you could say “my doctor is trying out a new medicine for me so my energy level may be up and down for a couple of weeks until it’s sorted out.”

      I would never tell my boss something like that because I know from a coworker that she is unsympathetic and anti-medication. He’s left for greener pastures, and I think her treatment of him was a big part of it.

    5. L*

      You can mention that you’re adjusting to a new medication, but, echoing Anonymous Poster, I wouldn’t go into more detail.

      As far as “acting erratically,” I’ve taken many different kinds of antidepressants and just want to say you don’t need to go to/stay at work if you don’t feel yourself. Be patient and take it easy for the first couple weeks. Sometimes switching or starting takes more out of you than you think! If you need them, this is an absolutely appropriate use of sick days! Also, I’m so glad you found something that is helping you.

    6. Lora*

      I wouldn’t. People are weird about it.

      You will start wondering why horrible people who lose their temper all the time don’t just get themselves some Lexapro or buproprion and chill the heck out, though. I do realize that being an a-hole is not a mental illness, so I don’t say it out loud, but damn I’ve been tempted.

    7. YarnOwl*

      I started a medication a few months ago that can have physical/mental side effects, and I just gave me team members a really casual heads up. I said something to the effect of, “Just so you guys know, I’m on a new medication that might make me irritable or a little spacey sometimes, so forgive me if I forget something! I’ll try to be more vigilant with my to-do list and writing things down, but if I forget something just let me know.”

      I said it in a super casual way so people knew what was up, but that didn’t create like, a serious or dramatic conversation. I think something similar could work for you. Good luck with your new meds!

    8. fposte*

      I generally wouldn’t advise telling a boss about a medical situation when there’s nothing actionable to request–there’s just no gain for you in it. If you can figure out that you have a specific request for her to do something, that’s another matter, but right now it sounds like you really don’t–you’re just thinking about potential situations.

    9. NoodleMara*

      I started anxiety meds about a month ago and while I haven’t mentioned it to my coworders or boss, I’ve been keeping a written track of all behaviors or actions that are different than before so I can adjust as needed. So for instance, mine make me very very tired a lot more than normal. I’ve been tracking how often I notice this and I’m making sure to get more sleep, more general downtime, etc as needed.

      Granted I’m also job hunting right now, so there’s different circumstances but above comments are definitely good!

    10. only acting normal*

      I wouldn’t. There’s no real reason to assume you’ll “start acting erratically”, there are so many possible side effects to anti-depressants you could get any or none of them.
      The only reason you need to disclose anything medical is if you need an accommodation of some kind – like working from home as Junior Dev asks about in another thread here. Even then you can be vague unless you feel your boss will be understanding about your particular condition.

    11. DDJ*

      You’ve gotten some really excellent advice below, and I don’t have a lot to add on that front. BUT I wanted to thank you for posting this question, because I’m finally at a point (I think) that I feel like I might see about starting antidepressants. Of course (I’m sure you’ve been through this), I keep telling myself I really shouldn’t; either because it’s not so bad, or because I feel like I don’t deserve to feel better, or because I’ve suffered from depression for so long that I honestly don’t know who I’ll be if it’s not there anymore.

      And I’m really glad to hear you’re feeling better!

    12. Windchime*

      I don’t recommend it unless you truly know that you can trust your boss. I thought I could trust my previous boss, but I could see the change on his face when I told him I had been suffering from anxiety. His face literally closed off and that was the beginning of the end of that job for me. It was as if I had painted a target on my back.

  18. Anon for this*

    The place where I work is pretty big, and I’m trying to organize my specific team to deal with one or two specific problems (not form a union, just deal more directly with things that are troubling us since the current system sucks). Thing is, I recently learned that the managers where I work are apparently trained to sniff out organizing, and will immediately fire anyone they suspect of trying to form a union. I’m not letting this stop me, but I’m now more scared as I’m doing this work. If I am found out and given the boot, what recourse would I have?

    P.S. I don’t want this to become a thread about whether organizing is right or not, my politics are what they are. I just want to know what my options would be if I were fired for organizing.

    1. Argh!*

      You should probably consult with an employment lawyer. There are “right-to-work” laws in many states that specifically protect union-busting employers. If you’re in one of those states you won’t have much recourse. There are some federal laws on the books, but your case sounds murky.

      1. Susan*

        IANAL, but I’m fairly sure you can’t legally be fired for organizing even in right-to-work states. Right-to-work laws just mean that you cannot be required to join a union for your job. I will reply with a link to some information from the National Labor Relations Board.

            1. Susan*

              If it’s about improving their working conditions, it’s still protected even if they are not trying to form a union. From the “Rights We Protect” page on the NLRB web site:

              “The National Labor Relations Board protects the rights of most private-sector employees to join together, with or without a union, to improve their wages and working conditions… The law forbids employers from interfering with employees in the exercise of rights to form, join or assist a labor organization for collective bargaining, or from working together to improve terms and conditions of employment.”

        2. Natalie*

          One important clarification: you can never be required to join a union in the US. Closed shops have been illegal since the 40s.

          In a non-RTW state, if you work at a unionized business but aren’t a member, you can be required to pay an agency fee, which is a percentage of normal dues representing whatever organizing benefited all workers regardless of membership. In an RTW state, agency fees are not allowed, so it potentially introduces a free-rider problem, where people can benefit from the union without paying in at all.

          1. Jill*

            You are confusing union shops with closed shops. Closed shops, where employers could only hire existing union members, are illegal. Union shops, where employees are required to join the union after being hired, are still legal in many states. Agency shops, where employees can be required to pay union dues but are not required to join the union, are also legal in many states.

    2. SM*

      (I am not a lawyer!) That sounds like one of the few “is this illegal?” questions where the answer is definitely yes. Please check out the Department of Labor’s website (or google “right to organize”). Even informal organization should be protected, and you can file a complaint with the DOL if they retaliate.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I am not a lawyer and this is not an answer in regards to law.

      I had an interesting discussion with some local union leaders at one point. They said that anyone who tries to organize ends up jobless. 100% of the time.

      It took years to play out but of the people I have seen try to organize, they have, indeed, ended up jobless.

      My new rule of thumb became “If problems are so bad, that I start thinking organizing is the answer then I just need to find a new job because that is probably where all this is going anyway.”

      I don’t know what your problems are. Perhaps you can just pull in a couple people and go as a group. I would favor this response as opposed to pulling in a larger group of employees.
      Perhaps you can just make suggestions for changes and in the course of applying these suggestions other problems would clear up. I have used this strategy effectively.

      My punchline is that you can look for protections under the law, actually find them and end up in new levels of hell anyway. Try everything else that you can think of first.

      1. Susan*

        Yes, that is true. One of the realizations I’ve had over the years is that employers can generally do whatever they want, as long as they’re not stupid enough to admit they’re breaking the law. They’re not firing you because you’re trying to form a union; they’re firing you because you were repeatedly late. See, they documented that you were 2 minutes late, 3 times this year. What do you mean, other employees are late more often than that? They don’t have any record of other employees being late (because they only record tardiness for people they’re looking to fire).

        It looks like this person’s managers might actually be stupid enough to admit they’re firing people for organizing, though. Maybe they don’t even know it’s illegal.

        1. Observer*

          Actually, in the kind of situation that you mention, the employer would probably be in trouble if there a good lawyer involved. If others (including former employees) are willing to testify that other people actually DID come in late then the employer is on the hook.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            A good lawyer, lots of out of pocket expense and if you win you get to go back to a company that totally hates you. You could end up getting into something that consumes every waking hour. Please think about how important this is to you.

      2. Anon for this*

        That’s the thing, it would be much easier for me to try and address this in other ways, but I want to put my democratic socialist politics into practice and try to model a healthy example of a slightly more democratic workplace. The problem we’re having is one that is a PITA for workers and management alike, but the bandaid solution that leadership has chosen is one of the worst options for us as workers. I think coming together as a team to tell leadership “This is how we feel and how it’s affecting us, let’s try something else” could be very powerful.

        1. Anon for this*

          Basically I have an eye toward long-term improvement of conditions here, but I would prefer to make those improvements while keeping my job.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          But companies aren’t democracies. There are other places to put your politics in to practice.
          If you attempt to organize you must be prepared to lose your job and it would be wrong of me not to say that on the basis of what I have seen and learned.

        3. Observer*

          NSNR is right about two things. One is that companies are not democracies.

          More to the point is the fact that you could definitely lose your job. Totally not legal, but from what you say either your company does not care or does not know. And, while going after them could get you a nice settlement, it’s not likely to be easy.

    4. Observer*

      NLRB – if what you heard is true, what management is doing is flat out illegal.

      In the meantime, document your head off. Both what you are doing in terms of your work and every.single.good review or compliment you get, and in terms of your organizing and the problems you are trying to resolve.

  19. awkwardkaterpillar*

    I am trying to transition from the private sector into higher ed. I will be starting graduate school this fall, and have applied for a position at the university in a department that is related to both the position I am in now, and what I will be going to school for. (Think private finance applying for a position as a financial specialist in the office of the program I’m starting).
    1. I’m not familiar with the timeframes on higher ed hiring. I submitted my application on 7/26 and it is still in a acknowledged but pending status – is this normal for higher ed or is something possibly off?
    2. Will being an incoming student hinder my prospects?
    3. Are there any other hiring differences that would greatly impact this process that it would be good to be aware of?

    1. Good luck!*

      1- Totally normal. It could be a while. When you hear people say things move slowly in academia, they ain’t lyin’!
      2- There is a huge wall between finance/admin and academic departments. It won’t help or hinder you unless your classes/research mean that you won’t be available during hours they need you to work.
      3- If your prior job dealt with things in black and white, be ready for a shock. In higher ed, everything is softly suggested and nothing is mandated. In my private sector life, if corporate rolled out a program, you supported it. If your boss asked you to do something, you did it. Not so much in academia. It’s weird.

    2. hepcat*

      1. Very normal. Hiring takes a lot longer in higher ed than other filedss.
      2. Is your grad program full time? That may be a hindrance, if you’re competiting with candidates who are able to give the job their full attention. Ideally you’d find a job in higher ed, then start grad school with a year or so experience under your belt, both for the tuition remission benefits and having your feet under you.
      3. You might be more likely to be interviewed by committee than in other jobs.

      1. awkwardkaterpillar*

        It is a full time program, but the classes are all in the evening (at the earliest I would need to leave at like 4:30 instead of 5).

    3. JaneB*

      Very normal – hiring is s…l…o…w at most universities, plus it’s the end of summer so many people are fitting in leave or gearing up for the massive new influx, so things do get delayed

    4. TotesMaGoats*

      Been in higher ed 15 years, currently assistant dean…
      1. Higher ed is slow. It just is.
      2. It’s possible. It depends on the position but they probably don’t want a current student to have access to some current student info. Like money owed or grades. Now role level access might solve that problem but it’s possibly an issue.
      3. I assume that you’ll get some tuition remission because you work there, please don’t mention that in the interview. Talk about how the role aligns with your professional goals. But “I applied because you’ll pay for my graduate degree” has always rubbed me the wrong way in interviews.

    5. Emma*

      1. Higher ed hiring takes a long time. For example, I’m on a hiring committee, and a position was posted in late June. We notified people they were selected for phone interviews mid-July. We held on-campus interviews early August, and then extended offers early/mid August. And this was a search that felt like it was going fairly quickly!

      2. Your availability will be the biggest hurdle, potentially, unless you’re interviewing for a position that has a flexible schedule or is marketed to students.

      3. Sometimes interviews take a half or full day (or longer, for an upper level position).

    6. SJ*

      Higher ed hiring can take a looooong time, particularly over the summer (when decision-makers are on vacation) and around the holidays. At my last job, I applied for a job in late May and didn’t start until late August. I’ve received rejection notices about jobs 5-6 months later.

      I can’t imagine being an incoming student would hinder your prospects – if anything, it’ll probably help them, if you’re studying something in the department you’d like to work in. Shows your enthusiasm and interest in the role, etc.

      1. awkwardkaterpillar*

        This (and all the other confirmations on the slower time frame) helps a lot.

        I do have a connection to the director of recruitment at the university through a mutual friend. I asked her if she would (if she felt appropriate) just drop a good work about me, which she said she would so hopefully that is not something that would hinder my prospects. (I would hope networking would not blow back ever but I tend to assume the worst.)

    7. Rainy, not-PI*

      1. Very normal. Higher ed hiring timelines are lengthy.

      2. Maybe, maybe not. It’s going to depend on class schedules and employment types and a lot of other things.

      3. Higher ed is really great in a lot of ways and also can be very frustrating, and it’s mainly going to depend on your particular department or office or program whether it’s the best work environment you’ve ever had or so toxic it’s unbearable. My current department is literally the most supportive and fantastic environment you can possibly imagine, positive, understanding, student-focused, absolutely wonderful. Some of my friends in higher ed (across 3+ countries) work in equally great environments, and some of them work in pits of toxic emotional sludge. It’s pretty obvious from the start which is which though, usually.

      150% agree that mentioning tuition benefit is going to kill, or at least severely injure, your chances. I was on the search committee where an applicant we passed through based on experience said “I’m just here because this position is in [state employee pension plan]”. It sounds *bad*.

      1. awkwardkaterpillar*

        I have no intention of mentioning anything about tuition benefits, this is a job that I’m sincerely interested in so hopefully I made that come across in my coverletter and can if I get an interview as well. thanks for the other insight as well!

    8. awkwardkaterpillar*

      So, I just looked online and they reposted the position – the opening had closed at the end of July. My application still says ‘acknowledged’. Which would make me think I’m not out of the running they just want more applicants? I’d think if they are reposting they must have at least reviewed what they have received.

      1. Rainy, not-PI*

        Yeah, it’s possible that they didn’t get sufficient applicants, or sufficient qualified applicants, to make a pool. Would you feel comfortable writing to the contact on the ad and asking where they’re at in the process?

        1. awkwardkaterpillar*

          Absolutely – I just don’t want to be a pest. I know the standard rule is to kind of leave them alone, but given that the status has been stagnant I also would hate if there really was something wrong and I didn’t follow up.

          I know I’m getting too invested in this – it would just logistically work out perfect since it’s in the field I’m going into and the building is like a block away from where all my classes will be instead of clear across the city.

          1. Rainy, not-PI*

            It’s okay to feel however you feel as long as you don’t call the HR contact person’s phone 60 times between now and 5pm :)

            Other people might have more informed advice, but I think an email to the contact person wouldn’t be taken amiss.

  20. Doug Judy*

    I’m meeting with my potential new boss for coffee Tuesday morning. I’ve been in talks with his consulting firm since April, and I think he may be making me an offer. That or he’s going to tell me I’m not what they’re looking for. Everything has been really positive, I’ve met other members of the group and a few other consulting firms they collaborate with. I have no reason not to be hopeful but I’m so nervous!!!

    1. Nutella Jar*

      It sounds like there’s going to be positive news! He’s investing time in you if he’s taking you for coffee.

  21. Nutella Jar*

    I got a job!

    The pay isn’t that great, but there’s room to grow, and they have in writing when it’s subject to change. I’ll be working in a different industry than when I was working at my father’s dysfunctional business, and the job is something I’ll enjoy. I was worried I wouldn’t get anything since I left my father’s business without anything lined up, but that wasn’t the case.

    4. Observer*

      That’s great!

      It’s really good that you are in a different industry. It’s going to be much easier to keep separated from them.

  22. Woman in a man's world*

    In light of the question earlier this week it seems appropriate that this would come up this week. I work in a male dominated profession. I’m used to being the only woman on a team. About six months ago I started a new. I now work on a team with 4-6 men (depends on the project people rotate around so the team isn’t really fixed). It’s totally normal to get together outside work with families for dinner (all but one person, Carter, is married and most have kids). The thing that I’m struggling with is that my co-workers get together without families sometimes too and I’m never included, I should be clear it’s not all of them at once but 2 or 3. I’m not sure what actually bothers me, the fact that they are getting together outside work without me, that they are telling me about it or what exactly.
    The most recent example was that Fergus and I were talking the other day and he just launches into telling me about how much fun he and Carter had at the microbrew festival over the weekend and how he ended up sleeping on Carter’s couch because there was no way he would have made it home safely.
    This is really bothering me more than it should but I can’t get past feeling excluded. Clearly it’s a me issue, but it seems odd that I would go hang out with my male coworkers at a beer festival or for drinks without my spouse or their spouses. It’s not that I don’t share the same interests outside work, in fact my husband and I wanted to go to the beer festival but had a family commitment we couldn’t miss. I just can’t see myself participating without my spouse there but I don’t want to be that person who is always bring my spouse along, which is extra complicated by the fact that hubby and I share a lot of interests.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I just can’t see myself participating without my spouse there but I don’t want to be that person who is always bring my spouse along, which is extra complicated by the fact that hubby and I share a lot of interests.

      Any chance they’re actually picking up on this vibe and so aren’t sure whether to invite you to non-spouse get-togethers?

      1. Woman in a man's world*

        I could see that but it’s not like they were inviting me then stopped, they never invited me in the first place, so it feels more like being excluded than not being included because of something they picked up on.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Hm. Would it be weird to insert a “That sounds like a blast. Invite me next time”? You wouldn’t have to say that multiple times but just once to get a real gauge.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      I’m in a field with similar demographics. It’s a huge problem because women miss out on forming those close relationships with male peers. In my particular company, a lot of promotions are granted based on relationships rather than opening jobs for everyone to apply for, so women definitely miss out and no men see the problem!

      I’m a married woman, and I will go to lunch with just me and one male coworker, or I’ll go to happy hours with the men, or even a baseball game if we have a few vendor tickets. I think it’s fine. However, I would not go hang out with a male coworker on the weekend at a non-work event. I would with everyone’s spouses or families, but I wouldn’t have that type of 1-on-1 friendship. I’m fine with the guys having it with each other, and if it naturally worked out with someone, I’m not against it, but it never has in 17 years. I don’t think you can police the mens’ relationships with each other to make it more fair to women, but there are other policy options that can help mitigate this.

    3. Shiara*

      You have my sympathy. I’ll admit that I haven’t quite figured out how to navigate this myself, although I’ve had some success with initiating geeky movie outings/game nights where spouses are welcome but it’s less an obvious family dinner bring everyone to sit down thing. That has yet to really segue into them initiating invitations to me sans husband, but since husband and I share so many interests and he’s hit it off pretty well with my coworkers it’d feel a bit weird to ditch him for these anyway…

      At least my current team invites me out to lunch with them on the regular. Unlike previous team, where I assumed the standing weekly lunch thing several of them had with a couple guys from other teams was due to them all having gone to college together. Up until the next new guy joined our team and was invited to join them his second day there. It shouldn’t have felt like a big deal, but it was just one of several instances where it was like I wasn’t thought of as part of the group despite bonding one on one with certain people. If a movie outing was discussed with me as part of the conversation, I was immediately invited. But if I wasn’t there when it was planned, no one thought to tell me until they were raving about it afterwards. Whereas other coworkers would be sought out to invite along.

      (Husband and I both work at different tech companies, which sometimes results in a somewhat inverted problem for me. When we get together with husband’s (almost entirely male) coworkers and their spouses (who are almost entirely not in tech), there’s a distinct tendency to split up into male coworkers talking about a mix of work/other tech/engineering adjacent topics, and the wives talking about how boring those topics are. This is largely due to one person in particular (who is also the one who likes to introduce us to the restaurant staff as “Oh, they’re the engineers and we’re their wives”))

      Anyway, all that rambling to say that I’m sorry and you’re not alone in feeling that awkward excluded feeling, even though no one’s really doing anything wrong. It’s just frustrating that they don’t think to invite you to things like that. And it just kind of adds to the faint feeling of awkwardness that occasionally descends when you’re trying to hang out as someone who is visibly the odd one out. And my husband is my best friend and we have a lot in common, and it doesn’t always seem like my coworkers’ spouses share my interests the way my husband does or even the way some of my coworkers do, which just makes it… weirder.

      1. blackcat*

        “Oh, they’re the engineers and we’re their wives”

        I HATE that dynamic. My husband now works at an engineering firm, and besides a friendship that pre-existed the coworking relationship, all of his male coworkers are either single or have spouses who are well outside STEM. And in the pre-existing friendship (all of 4 of us went to college together), the wife simply refuses to attend events because of the dynamic of wives bonding over not wanting to hear anything “technical.” Male friend has warned my husband that female friend’s lack of attendance appears to hurt him with hire ups, which is gross, and my husband may suffer the same fate.

        On the flip side, all of my colleagues get along great with my husband! He fits right in!

    4. Sadsack*

      It sounds to me like some of these get-togethers among the guys are just friends getting together. I once worked in an department that was majority women and some of us became friends outside of work and would get together nights or weekends occasionally. It never occurred to us that we should ask any of the guys along just to include the entire group, much like it was never all of the department women. It was only two or three of us out of 20 people getting together. We were getting together as friends. There were a couple of other small groups of women who had friendships outside of work that did not include me, and I was okay with that.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This is what I have figured, too. I tested the situation. If a couple women hung out together and did not invite me, would I be upset? Since it’s not all of them, I felt I had to grant them a pass.

        This stuff can eat at you, if you let it. So it is good that you are asking here rather than letting it fester. I am not sure what would work for you, but my overall suggestion is to find some general guidelines that you use as go-tos. One guideline could be, “Well it was a couple of them and not all of them.” It would be more clear cut if you were the only one not invited.

    5. kbeers0su*

      It could be the timing. Depending on how long the others have worked together, they may just know each other better and have established relationships outside of work. I think as you get to know them, let them know what you’re into, and you may find yourself invited. For instance, with the beerfest. When coworker was telling you about it, I would have mentioned that you had really wanted to go, but had another commitment. So now they know you have that in common. So the next time it comes up, you’re more likely to get the invite. And, just like with my kid, I also encourage you to make plans with them. Bring up something that you’re thinking about doing/going to and see if anyone is interested. It may just take some time to get there since you’re new.

    6. Rusty Shackelford*

      It sounds like these guys are getting together as friends, not as coworkers. Which explains why they think it’s not a big deal to tell you about it, because it’s not a work thing. It’s a friend thing, where the friends also happen to work together.

    7. who?*

      It sounds to me like these two coworkers are very good friends outside of work. You are still fairly new so it does make sense that you are not as close with them. Also, you weren’t the only person excluded, since out of a 7 person group only two went to the beer festival together.

      In the moment you could have casually said something like “oh I’m so jealous, I had wanted to go to the beer festival too, but we had a commitment with my husband’s family” or something similar to signal to them that you have similar interests and would like to be friendly outside of work.

      I think it would be different if the whole group minus spouses had gone to the festival without you, but since it was only two people it just seems like they are possibly the only ones who are actually close friends outside of work.

      1. Woman in a man's world*

        I guess I wasn’t totally clear, it’s not that two specific coworkers are getting together regularly, it’s that various combinations of the 7 will get together in groups of 2 or 3. I don’t think I’d be bothered (as much) if it was always the same 2 or 3 but with it not always being the same ones it feels more exclusionary

        1. SarahKay*

          I’m not sure I have any useful advice, but I do think I’d be bothered too in your shoes. So if nothing else, I can offer moral support in that I don’t think you’re being unreasonably upset and I do think they are (however unwittingly) excluding you somewhat. I’m just sorry I don’t have any fixes :(

    8. Zip Zap*

      Could you invite them to do something? Something that you’d all enjoy?

      If your spouse gets along with them, it might not be a big deal whether or not he’s included. You could try both and go with whatever seems to work best.

  23. Anonny For This*

    We had a tragedy happen at work very recently. My coworker caused an accident on our property that ended in the death of a child. I’m trying to keep this vague because the news coverage has been extensive and vile towards him. He is a kind, hard-working, nice, friendly person. Our mood in the office has been so somber for both families involved. He is being painted as a villain in the media and it breaks my heart.

    I’m not sure when he will return, but I imagine he feels as though we all hate him. Does anyone have any advice on how to make sure he knows that we support him on his return? Is there anything we should do now? Food tray for his family? Do I act like nothing happened when I interact with him? Do I tell him I’m sorry that he is going through a difficult time?

    Before I get jumped on, of course I feel terrible for the family that lost a child. Having sympathy for one person involved does not mean I can’t have sympathy for another. My question is about my coworker though, and I ask that we focus on that and not on the tragedy that occurred. It was something that could have happened to any one of us, regardless of what the news is “reporting”.

    1. Emmie*

      My heart goes out to both families. Maybe reach out to him, let him know what you said here, that you’re sorry he’s going through a hard time, and he has no obligation to return your call / message. Gosh, there really is no right way to address this.

    2. President Porpoise*

      Are you sure that he’ll be back? I don’t know about you, but I could see him voluntarily leaving or being fired. I which case, helping him network and providing a good reference (and making sure he knows you will) would go a long way.

      1. Anonny For This*

        The owner will not fire him. He is a long time employee and this 100000% was an accident. I think he will be working remotely for a time. I could see him voluntarily leave, but I don’t know how you would get another job when a google search of your name comes up with the news stories.

    3. neverjaunty*

      I think an expression of sympathy that he is going through a tough time is fine. That’s plenty to let him know you don’t hate him without dragging it up or making it a big issue.

    4. Manders*

      Oh my goodness, what a horrible thing all around.

      I think your food tray idea is a good one. Giving someone a meal is an easy way to say “hey, I care about you” in almost every culture, and it’s practical too, because someone under that much stress is probably not paying much attention to life necessities like grocery shopping.

      Other than that, treat him normally unless you see him crying or looking very upset, in which case I think it’s ok to ask him if there’s anything he needs.

    5. LostRiverRanger*

      I am very sorry for you and your organization, your co worker, and of course the child’s family. This is a very tough thing.

      I worked in healthcare where people were directly or indirectly responsible for events that contributed to deaths. It’s important to reach out to him, to offer support. You might find some guidance around “second victim” syndrome that can guide you more about how to interact with him. Second victims are, essentially, those who succumb to guilt and blame after these events (in healthcare, we see suicide, addiction and career changes). It sounds like you are already in the right space – this is a tragedy for all involved, being heartbroken for him and wanting to support him does not mean value his pain and grief *more* than the family’s pain.

      I’ve also faced events reported in the media, and it’s really tough for an entire organization. The stories are inherently incomplete.

      You might consider caring/supporting all of you in your workplace, as this can be really hard for everyone. There are some good case studies and strategies in healthcare (and other industries) in how to respond to and address errors and accidents internally and externally. Talking about it internally is important (caveat: this is where leadership needs to consult with their legal team, but that doesn’t mean they can’t acknowledge the event and the grief/loss felt by your team – pending litigation does not *need* to mean silence). I am NOT a lawyer – I’m only speaking from the perspective of an incident investigator. Talking about the event also reduces speculation and gossip and soothes the people who are distressed and who may be susceptible to media inquiries, in my experience.

      Good luck. This will leave a scar, but I’m glad you are already thinking about how to heal.

      1. Anonny For This*

        Thank you so much. This is extremely valuable information. I will pass the “Second victim” syndrome info over to his team, since they’re really the ones who are struggling with how to behave right now.

        Not that I trusted the media much before, but this really is eye-opening to see how statements and facts get extremely skewed when there’s only speculation and rumor to go off of. Makes me wonder about a lot of news stories that I follow.

        1. Observer*

          This is a common refrain about trusting the media. I think I’ve heard this from every person I know who has dealt with a situation covered by the media.

    6. WellRed*

      I think it would ne nice to reach out. He’s probably feeling a bit isolated along with everything else.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Please accept my sympathy.

      I have to be vague here.
      A while ago a friend accidently hit and killed another person. It went wildly public and the funeral was INCREDIBLE. Which I am glad for the deceased’s family that they had so much support. It was an accident and the deceased was a young adult who was doing his job.

      I went to see my friend.
      OP, I could have cried for the outpouring of support my friend received.
      The boss when to Friend’s house and sat down for a talk. “Take all the time you need, you will be paid. We totally get that this was an accident and we realize that this could happen to anyone of us at any time.”
      Friends of the deceased came to the house. “We understand this was an accident. We do not hold any blame toward you. We wish the best for you.”
      People gave Friend money knowing that he could not possibly be working because he would be so distraught. They also brought food over and played with the dog. (When members of the household are sad they are less apt to remember to play with the dog.)
      It was a month before Friend returned to work. Heck, it took time for the shakes to stop.
      Friend is doing better now, but their life has been totally and forever changed. It’s important to recognize that things are never the same afterward. But that is not the same as saying your coworker will never smile or laugh again. In time they will.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      Oh no, that’s terrible. :'(

      I think it would be okay to send a note and the food tray is a nice idea. Maybe other coworkers could pitch in for it.

      When he returns, let him know you’re glad to have him back. Then act like everything is normal–it will be hard, because everybody is thinking about it. You don’t have to refer to the accident, but if he wants to talk about it (he might not be able to if there is litigation involved), offer to listen if you’re able.

    9. Puckter Grumble*

      That’s horrible for both families. I cannot imagine being on either side of this. Accidents are terrible, unavoidable events that can be inflicted upon or caused by anyone.

      I definitely don’t think you should pretend nothing happened. You don’t have to struggle to find the “right” words to say. Sometimes there are none. Even if you give him a pat on the shoulder with a gentle “I’ve been thinking of you, I really hope you’re doing OK” – that kind of support goes a long way. He must be feeling tremendous guilt and shame. Just make a small gesture so he knows there are people who support him and empathise with his terrible situation.

    10. ..Kat..*

      I recommend reaching out to him now, while he is not in the office. Because he is at home, he is possibly horribly isolated, imagining everyone hates him and being despondent. If you can do this as a group (or more than just you), all the better. Send a fruit basket and include a note that says you are thinking about him, hope he is doing well, and look forward to seeing him back at work. The guilt that goes with causing the death of a child, no matter how accidental, is horrific.

  24. Language Student*

    I asked a little while ago about advice on improving teaching skills as a language student and volunteer ESL tutor. Not really an update because I was almost done for the term then, but when doing feedback my students said that the best thing about last term was the teacher (me!!!). They also said that my activities are well-balanced for different skills, which I was really trying to balance properly. I’m thrilled! I can’t wait to start next term and hopefully keep improving. Thanks to everyone who gave advice before, I can’t wait to put it into practice!

  25. KatieKate*

    Been at a job that I love for a year… but something really cool just popped up at a company. I have plans to speak with one of the managers I know there about it next week, but I’m worried something might make its way over to my current boss. Fingers crossed!

  26. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    The podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You did a great show recently on coming out as LGBTQ at work, what it means and how one decides.

    Who here is out or not at work? How did people react?

    I’m out about being queer, but not about being nonbinary- I think a switch to “they”, especially when I still look very cis due to me, er, assets, would make me stand out too much. Lawyers can be very traditional’

    1. Language Student*

      I’m out (cis lesbian here) to coworkers. I’m kind of out to students (ESL volunteer, we teach adults) – I have some of them on Facebook, and I’m out on Facebook so I’m kind of out by proxy, but I don’t discuss my personal life around students and wouldn’t be obviously in a relationship at our social events. If I’m with my girlfriend in town and I see a student, I’ll be more or less obviously in a relationship based on how well I know the student and how I think they’d react.

      It just wasn’t an issue with my coworkers, which was really nice. It felt absolutely normal – I can talk about my girlfriend the way straight people talk about their partners. Other tutors have shown support for the singular “they”, which is awesome too. With students, it doesn’t come up much – I don’t bring my relationship up and neither do they. I actively avoid the topic with some students who I know have homophobic views, because I don’t want them to be uncomfortable around me, and I just don’t want to deal with that.

    2. Theo*

      I’m casually out as queer — the way I get read by many people and who I’m married to can make me look straight, but I am Very Not and neither is my spouse — and selectively out as nonbinary. One coworker knows, and I let my new boss know at my first check-in with them; it seemed like an important set-up in case I decided to move forward with being more open about it, changing my name, or changing my pronouns. I already present the way I prefer, and everyone is very chill about it. The queer thing is a non-issue!

    3. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I was out at my last job, which was fine because there were a bunch of us and the culture was very accepting. This new job? Absolutely not. The rumor mill churns non-stop here, and I’ve overheard some very disparaging comments about trans people. This is not a group of people I trust with anything personal. But this isn’t my “forever” job, so I’m biding my time until I can move on.
      On a happier note though: I recently heard through the grape vine that the latest rumor about me is that I write Supernatural fan fiction! Hysterical (and also plausible, but not true).

    4. Rainy, not-PI*

      I’m out at work. As a cis woman in a relationship with a cis man, if I didn’t say anything people would assume I’m straight, and I hate that. :) In my workplace it’s emphatically not a thing. At this point in my life I don’t think I’d voluntarily work somewhere where it *was* a thing, but I’m fortunate and privileged enough to be able to draw those lines for myself. If I worked somewhere where it wouldn’t be safe to be out, I probably wouldn’t be, and I don’t judge anyone for taking whatever steps are necessary to be safe.

      In my case, being out empowered someone who came on a year after me to also be out in the office, and I’m really happy about that because it clearly makes my coworker very happy to be able to share the same kind of information about their life that the rest of the office shares without having to censor themselves or remember to switch pronouns.

    5. KR*

      Bisexual cis woman here who is married & monogomas to a cis heterosexual man. I don’t see a need to be “out” since I’m married and not dating anymore (and yes, I know it’s a priveledge to be able to not have to come out anymore). In the past I have brought it up really casually as in, “Oh, my ex-girlfriend used to really like chocolate rice sculptures!” Or “Oh I dated a woman once who went to the Univeristy of Teapots – it’s such a great school!” If they have a big huge reaction to the fact that I go both ways, screw them. I’m gay af

    6. Anon Currently*

      I only came out as bi at my last job because we were doing some sensitivity training and I was getting irritated by the people who were aggressively sorting me into the non-LGBTQ camp. It was like they expected everyone to immediately disclose their orientation, and anyone who didn’t was assumed straight. (Maybe there was some sort of meta-lesson in there, but it was not very sensitive sensitivity-training.)

      My coworkers were very understanding and supportive (higher ed in New England), except for the one supervisor who’d been touting himself as The Most Open-Minded, which was kind of funny.

      I generally keep my bi-ness to myself, since I’ve been with my partner for many years and most people assume I’m straight. It’s definitely a privilege to be able to do so, and I recognize that, but I’ve found that I get more pushback from LGBTQ folk and people like the above supervisor, who seem to think it’s all the way gay or nothing. It’s just not worth the hassle at work.

    7. Grumplepuss*

      Not out. Cis-ish, androgynous, bi. Also married to a Cis hetero man. Not out because it’s probably not safe where I live, plus there is the bi invisibility thing. It is very obvious that I am androgynous but I think others just attribute that to the fact that I am a tough-as-hell Amazon personality-wise. I’m sorry I don’t have any advice for you but please know I’m in your corner and hope that all goes well for you whether you decide to be out or not. I also love reading your comments.

    8. char*

      I’m a gay trans guy. I’m out as being gay/queer in general, and it’s been fine. No one has really said anything about it at all.

      However, I’m mostly not open about being trans. A few of the managers know due to issues that arose that I had to discuss with them, but other than that, I’m stealth. I doubt anyone here would be openly bigoted… but I have a feeling a lot of people would say well-meaning-but-clueless things, and I just can’t deal with that!

    9. Lab Monkey*

      I tried? at my last couple of jobs. I’m queer and nonbinary, and use singular they – getting called “she” makes my skin crawl and my dysphoria sky high. I’m in the bay area, so very few people were obviously bad about the queer part, but I couldn’t get my pronouns to stick (even with my queer, trans competent coworkers). HR laughed at me and “decided” a gender for me when I refused to answer male or female on some paperwork. They also refused to help in any way with trans sensitivity stuff. It was a bad place.

  27. Bookfish*

    I’m likely going to accept a new job offer today. I’m suffering from some imposter syndrome because I can’t believe they think I’m the right person for the job. It’s a newly created position that comes with a big pay increase…as well as a big step up in terms of responsibility. I’d also need to move to another state and they want me to start in three weeks. Eek! But I do think it’s what I’m supposed to do. I’m just really scared that I won’t be up for it.

    If anyone has advice on how to deal with imposter syndrome as you’re going into a new job, I’d appreciate it. But my real question is how do I announce it to my current coworkers? It’s rare to have everybody in the office at once, but email feels so impersonal, and obviously that means some people find out before others and there may be hurt feelings. How have others handled it?

    1. miyeritari*

      I wouldn’t disclose that you feel this way until you’re sure your coworkers won’t hold it against you in some weird way. (Ie: “I like Jane but she’s kind of a downer about herself and it gets me down too.”) You might want to make some friends and see if you can sniff out if anyone has similar feelings or understands where you’re coming from. (You don’t disclose this in your post, but generally as a woman I find that this is something I connect with on other women – that might be a place to start.)

      In the meantime, I’d try to combat your imposter feeling symptoms.

      The way I usually do this is that I put how crappy I feel about my work/performance to the side and ONLY review the feedback I get from external sources, and then i try to just REALLY lean on that no matter how awful my inner gremlin is going at me. For example, even though in my head I might be saying “Jesus christ, this is the worst teapot anyone has ever made, how could they POSSIBLY want me to make teapots, I’m sure they’re going to look at this and ‘go what an AWFUL teapot’ i’m going to be fired!!”

      I try to only pay attention to external feedback: “okay, well the LAST time i showed off a teapot, no one had bad feedback, in fact one person said ‘wow, nice teapot!’ and on my yearly review, my boss said I make amazing teapots.”

      I also try to remember my crummy imposter feedback doesn’t actually matter. Someone else decided I was good for this job, it’s way more important that THEY care, not me.”

      I hope this helps. Imposter syndrome is SO tough. Ugh. Good luck on your new posistion! You’re going to do amazing.

      1. KMB213*

        I think Bookfish is asking us how she should let her current coworkers know about her new position, not how to announce her impostor syndrome.

        Assuming I’m interpreting correctly, Bookfish, I would tell your manager in person, first, then those you work closest with. Depending on the size of your office, you could tell all of the people who are there in person, then send off a quick e-mail so everyone finds out at the same time. I understand that this feels impersonal, but, assuming you will see all of your coworkers at least once before you leave, you’ll be able to do personal goodbyes, as well.

        Good luck with the new job! The company believes you’re the best candidate for a reason, so I’m sure you’ll rock it!

    2. who?*

      Do you mean you want to announce to your coworkers that you have imposter syndrome? I would strongly advise against doing that.

      1. Bookfish*

        Sorry for the misunderstanding. I appreciate the insight about imposter syndrome, miyeritari. I’ll definitely need to copy all that down. And thanks KMB213. I was able to do what you suggested to the extent I could (my manager is remote) and I think it went ok.

  28. AdAgencyChick*

    When you interview someone, how long do you typically interview them for?

    Our recruiting department schedules us for half-hour interviews per person (a candidate is usually required to meet with the hiring manager, the hiring manager’s boss or head of the department, and maybe one or two people in related departments who would be peers).

    I don’t think you can learn that much about someone in only half an hour. I mean, sure, sometimes they will wave red flags in my face in the first ten minutes, and then I end the interview when I’m supposed to. But usually I want 45 minutes to an hour to get more of a sense of somebody.

    On the other hand, we are asking people to take time out of their workday, they have to meet 2-4 people at a time, and I want to be respectful of that.

    Just curious what people find the ideal amount of time is in various industries.

    1. alice*

      I’ve never had a successful interview (as the candidate or the interviewer) that was shorter than 45 minutes. I find even 30 minutes too rushed and not enough time to establish a familiar relationship – for lack of a better term – with the other person. With interviews that are an hour in length, there’s plenty of time for in-depth questions and the candidate’s questions at the end. This is just my experience though.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Usually 30 minutes to an hour, depending. If I’m one of a long line of people to interview someone, I could get only 30 minutes, but if I’m one of the people who’d be working most directly with the candidate, it’s usually closer to 45 minutes or an hour (or even longer).

    3. Kathenus*

      My interviews usually consist of 30 minutes with HR, one hour with me and my two managers, 30-45 minutes with the members of the team(s) they’ll be joining (with no managers present), and then a quick follow up with me at the end to answer any additional questions. Plus some time on their own to tour our facility (we are open to the public) if they are external candidates. If it’s hiring for a manager position, we also add one hour with two of my peers, per a policy from our VP.

      Even though it’s a long day, I think having the candidate meet different people at different levels helps them better understand the culture and the position, and helps us get a better cross-section of feedback to help find the best fit.

    4. Jady*

      HR used to schedule us for 90 minutes per person interviewing them. We pushed to get it to 45 minutes. To me, even 45 seems too long.

      But I’m in software dev. It’s pretty easy to quickly determine if the person is qualified for the job. Everything else is about cultural fits.

    6. Natalie*

      I don’t think I’ve ever had a decent job interview that’s been shorter than an hour, but that’s one hour with one person or group of people. If I was your recruiting department, I’d be trying to combine some of those interviews, or with the peers just have them sit in on the main interview.

    7. NotAnotherManager!*

      Depends on the position. For entry-level staff, I have a pretty well-defined set of skills/traits I’m looking for and really only need 30 minutes to describe the position/organization, ask questions about the desired skills, and make sure I’ve answered their questions. I have the option to push to 45-60 minutes, if needed. For more complex positions, I usually ask for an hour but have an arrangement with HR to cut short any interviews that clearly aren’t going anywhere (e.gl, guy who gave one-word answers to open-ended questions, girl who spent the interview time telling me how she really didn’t want to do the things the job entailed).

    8. Optimistic Prime*

      I work in tech. We have all-day interview loops. Each interview is about an hour (the lunch one is an hour and a half), and people can have anywhere from 3-6 interviews in a normal day depending on level and team.

      A half an hour is not long enough IMO.

  29. Nicotene*

    I have an initial phone interview for one job at the beginning of next week, and an in-person interview for a different job at the end of the week. I should know more soon, but right now I think the second job sounds like a better career move (of course). They’re almost a month behind the first job in making their decision so I’m afraid I’ll end up with a solid offer from job 1, the less-preferred, and not know the disposition of job 2. Happens all the time, but so frustrating!

  30. Berry*

    Second question, for myself!

    I went to a networking event yesterday and met a few people, made some LinkedIn connections, however I realized that I would feel weird connecting these people to jobs I might know because I don’t know them at all beyond a 10 minute conversation and what their field is. I don’t want to somehow end up responsible for a recommendation that turns out to be a terrible hire because I didn’t actually know them. I want to keep meeting people (job hunt starting again soon!) but is it just a fact of life that networking is 95% people that you might never interact with again and 5% potentially useful connections?

    1. Jillociraptor*

      I think that ratio is probably right, but there are some benefits even to being connected to the 95%. I’ve definitely had further-flung contacts just send me a position description they saw that might be a fit with my skills, or share that a position is going to be available, or pass on a conference or other opportunity that might be beneficial. None of that came with any personal recommendations or access for me, but it did densify my grapevine in helpful ways.

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        And sometimes some people in the 95% know someone *else* who becomes useful to you later.

    2. A.N.O.N.*

      I imagine if your company was hiring and someone you met at a networking event told you they were interested in the position, you wouldn’t have an issue forwarding their resume to HR or the hiring manager. You could include a note that said that you don’t know them personally, but know they are interested in the job. The fact that you passed it on means their resume will at least get looked at, rather than if they apply through the generic channel.

      Same would go for you. People won’t be able to personally vouch for you, but they can ensure that your application materials are at least looked at by the right people.

      2. Optimistic Prime*

        That’s how I do it. I frequently meet people at networking events who could potentially be good fits for positions on our team, so I pass on their resume with a note clarifying where I met them and noting that I have never worked with them personally but they could be a good fit and they seem interested.

  31. On the Way Out*

    I’ve just accepted a new position and given notice at my current job. My boss took the news better than I expected. What’s surprising to me is that she seems to have no idea of why I’m leaving. She thinks it’s because I’m returning to the field I worked in before this one–which is true. However, the main reason is because she’s highly unprofessional.

    During my first few months here, my boss was verbally abusive on an almost daily basis. That tapered off as I gained a better handle on my responsibilities, and she eventually acknowledged that she had “misjudged me.”

    Aside from that, my boss has behaved questionably in a number of ways, towards some of my coworkers as well as myself. For example, she routinely criticizes her employees during staff meeting, both to their faces and when they’re absent. On our high school intern’s first day, our boss asked her for advice on her teenage son’s behavioral problems. And her rules for what does and does not qualify for overtime pay are inconsistent. Several times I’ve worked additional hours, only to be told the next week that those weren’t eligible and I needed to leave early to erase the time debt–which put me behind on other projects.

    I wish there were someone with whom I could be honest about all of this. Yet my boss is where she is because she’s well-connected. She’s well-liked by her boss, who’s housed in another building and sees very little of the daily workings of our department. Moreover, my current boss has connections with several high-level people in the department I’m moving to, and I’m concerned that saying something now could negatively affect me in the future.

    Any advice?

    1. neverjaunty*

      1) Let her believe the lie.

      2) Talk (quietly) to an attorney about how to recover the overtime wages she’s stolen from you.

      1. Samata*

        I agree with both of your suggestions, but is there a way to do 2 without harming relationship with current boss since it sounds like On the Way Out is actually working for the same company? I know retaliation isn’t permitted, but just curious.

        1. neverjaunty*

          That’s what the attorney can explain – what options are available and the pros and cons.

    2. This isn't a hill worth dying on*

      I would let sleeping dogs lie because you seem to be on an even keel with her at the moment, she has form for badmouthing people, and she’s well connected with people you will work with. Leave on as positive note as you can so she feels positive when she thinks/speaks of you. It doesn’t look like you have a lot to gain from being honest, and potentially something to lose if she talks to her contacts about you in an unkind way.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Most of the time, if I am leaving because of a bad boss I tell myself that speaking up now is too little and too late.

      Never underestimate the power to taking your skills, ability and knowledge with you when you leave. A good employee leaves a big hole and everyone knows it.

  32. mrs. barber*

    I asking a question on behalf of my husband. He is a barber and the shop he works in is owned by a man who is also a barber but doesn’t actually take clients any more. He is rarely at the shop.
    My husband is paid a percentage of sales on services. He doesn’t recieve a salary and files taxes as an independent contractor.
    The shop is located in a downtown business district that is significantly quieter on the weekends. In spite of this, the owner decided about a year ago to open on Saturdays from 10-6 as well as Monday-Friday. The barbers were willing to give it a shot since Saturday hours are normal in their industry. Unfortunately after a year of trying they are all fed up with lack of business. They regularly have hour-long lulls just sitting around waiting for a client to come in. Obviously they are not making any money during these down times. They have let the owner know that they’re unhappy with the way it’s going but for the owner there is really no downside to being open since he gets a percentage of their sales and is not having to pay them to sit around. He will not budge, not even to compromise on closing at 4 instead of 6. Are the barbers powerless in this situation? Does anyone have a script of something they could say to the owner to help convince him these Saturday shifts are a waste of their time?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      Legally, the owner doesn’t get to set hours for independent contractors. Contractors get to set their own times, and employees are told when to work. But I can’t help you too much with verbiage to explain this to the owner. The best suggestion I have is to collectively tell the owner that all the contractors realized that they are not making any money on the weekends and they decided not to work them anymore. Frequently, people will accept it if they are told the decision instead of asking permission.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Yeah, I think going to the owner as a group might be effective. He might decide to fire any individual complainers, but he can’t let his whole team go at once.

      2. mrs. barber*

        Independent contractor may not be the correct term. He definitely has to show up when scheduled if he want to keep his job.

        1. Nicotene*

          If he must show up at certain hours, he must be paid for those hours. There’s something really shady going on. As the others say, a key definition of a contractor is that they set their own hours and can choose not to work at certain times. But everybody has to be paid for times they have to work.

        2. Natalie*

          I think what AndersonDarling is saying is that in order to be *correctly* classified as an independent contractor, he should be setting his own hours. Does he receive a 1099 or W2 at the end of the year?

          1. mrs. barber*

            I just confirmed with him that he gets a 1099 so it seems like his boss may be doing some contradictory things.

            2. Zip Zap*

              Yes. If you’re improperly classified, you can sue your employer for the wages and anything else they owe you (benefits, cost of materials). Look up the definition of employee versus independent contractor. Maybe they could present this to the boss and point out that he needs to pay them or let them set their own hours.

    2. Anon in IL*

      There are tests for classifying a worker as an employee vs an independent contractor. One is the ability to set your own hours. Boss may be running afoul of the law if he is insisting on Saturday hours.

        1. mrs. barber*

          Yes, that definitely makes it sound like he’s not technically independent. Perhaps I was mistaken about the way he files taxes. (Should probably make sure we’ve been doing it right! Haha)
          Thanks for the link!

          1. Hibiscus*

            No, it’s his boss who gets hit with the tax burden because he’s treating them as employees but paying them as contractors. The barbershop owner is due for some stiff penalties from the IRS.

    3. Former Hairdresser*

      The independent contractor points others have discussed is a good point. I also suggest:
      – Discussing this as a group
      – Suggesting rotating Saturdays if barbers are willing
      – Looking at the total shop sales for the day. Given the workload and commission, how much is the owner actually making? It might make sense to approach it from a logical sense: we have 4 barber’s working who cut 28 people – with a 50% split and product commissions, the owner makes $X but we guess he spends $Y on electricity, etc… Does that profit justify being open on Saturdays for the owner?
      – There is strength in masses. If they all push back and refuse to work, the owner is in a hard spot. It would be difficult (but not impossible) to fire everyone.
      – Or tell him “hey, none of us are making enough money to justify working on Saturdays. If you want that, what are you doing to advertise the shop to increase business / make it worth our while?”
      It’s not unreasonable for that location to have minimal or no staff on Saturdays (depending on the customer load.) It’s also rare for stylists / barbers to be closed on Saturdays; however, downtown businesses are an exception. It’s pretty common to have unreasonable managers or owners in this industry. Your husband may wish to put out feelers for other shops if he can bring a book of business. In the meantime, I recommend that he collect his own customer records. (The records might be property of the barber shop, and he might not be able to take them with him.) He might also consider starting his own business in a place like Sola Salon Studios, a place where he can set up his own shop with low overhead. Some of my friends have had a lot of success there, but it does come with a location change (that may impact his business), and other responsibilities like bookkeeping, marketing, taxes, ordering, etc…. It sounds like he, and his coworkers have a difficult situation now. I hope it changes for the better.

      1. Former Hairdresser*

        He can also put out feelers for other shops even if he doesn’t have a book of transferable business.

          1. mrs. barber*

            He has been keeping feelers out but higher-end barbershops are still somewhat rare around here. (He’s def a barber, not a cosmo.)

    5. mrs. barber*

      Sounds like the next step is researching whether they fit the definition of indie contractor or not. If so, they can use that as ammunition for a group meeting.
      Just to answer some random questions, I doubt the owner’s overhead is very high as the shop is in a large building that’s basically always open and “on”, though I haven’t seen his bills.
      My husband is relatively new to the profession so I don’t think he’s ready to strike out on his own yet and I’m not sure the barbers are a cohesive enough group that they would ever move together. (It’s like a lot of workplaces, some people are more useful than others. Haha.)

    6. KarenT*

      At a minimum, can they cut down the number of people there on Saturdays? It sounds like all 4 are sitting around doing nothing. I know it’s not a full solution, but it seems pretty reasonable for there to only be 2 there on Saturdays, and then they can alternate weekends instead of working every one.

    7. No, please*

      I was a stylist for 12 years. If the owner makes a schedule that your husband is required to keep then he is an employee. He should be paid hourly, receive overtime pay after 40 hrs per pay period and be allowed to keep all tips. Standard W-2. If your husband is buying any shop supplies beyond his personal tools like shears, clippers and guards, combs and brushes etc., he should get reimbursed or stop doing it. This a real problem in that industry. It’s disturbing. Beyond contacting your local equivalent to DOL he can contact the state board of cosmetology for advice.

      1. mrs. barber*

        Thanks for the info, No Please. The boss does make the schedule and my husband does buy his own supplies and then writes them off and his tax return. (He gets a 1099 tax doc.)

    8. mrs. barber*

      Thanks, everyone! I was expecting to hear the standard “negotiate as a team” advice so this is a pleasant surprise. If it turns out he has been doing something shady…that’s pretty good leverage!

      1. No, please*

        Sorry I’m so late. Unfortunately that “negotiate as a team” advice will not work here, I suspect. A lot of people think they can pay on a commission while treating employees like sub-contractors for tax purposes. This simply isn’t the case. And if commission doesn’t meet or exceed minimum wage then the employer must pay minimum wage according to labor laws. The end.
        These are the reasons I went to work for corporate beauty supplies before having my kid and staying home. I spent all that time in school, passed my state boards, pursued on-going ed., just to deal with this crap. I did fare better as a booth renter. Maybe he could look into renting a space in a well-established salon/barber shop? He would be fully self-employed. In my experience, a real barber could do quite well in this setting.

  33. Caroline*

    Since the subject of makeup comes up every now and then:

    For people who wear makeup to work, how much of it do you wear, and how long does it take for you to apply? Also, if you don’t work in an office, what kind of work setting are you in?

    I find makeup application extremely time consuming (even the very basics, but I’m not all that experienced with it…)

    1. awkwardkaterpillar*

      I wear a pretty full face of makeup (foundation, powder, blush, eyeshadow, eyeliner, mascara). I would say it probably only takes me about 10 minutes at the very most. I pretty much do the same thing every day and it’s like a muscle memory thing at this point. Is there a particular thing that seems to slow you down?

      1. Caroline*

        Eye makeup of any kind really slow me down, I have no idea how people manage to do that so quickly.

    2. Hannah G.*

      I wear a little blush, “eyebrow mascara,” and mascara. It takes less than 3 minutes to do my makeup and I usually do it in the car. I prefer a more natural look. I work in a typical office setting but in a laid back city.

    3. alice*

      I work in an office and put very little effort in (but I look professional). Just some light foundation and eyeliner; it takes me about five minutes. There are a lot of women here who wear no makeup and some who wear more than I do, but it’s a relaxed environment and no one seems to care either way.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        I just do eyeliner and sometimes lipstick. But I really focus on my skin quality so I spend time at night with face creams and scrubs and I’ll get facials. So I don’t spend time putting on makeup, but I spend the time on overall skin maintenance.

    4. strawberries and raspberries*

      Make-up application can be a pain. Sometimes I’ll do a full face when the mood strikes, but usually I’ll do at least one of the following:
      -Tinted moisturizer (instead of foundation)
      -Mascara
      -Multisticks or other convertible products (Bite makes really nice multisticks, as does Nars)
      -Perfume

      These products save some time and usually the application isn’t as precise.

    5. FDCA In Canada*

      I wear makeup daily. I’m both in the office and in the community dealing with local businesses on a daily basis and occasionally see clients. The office is business casual.

      I’ve been wearing makeup just about daily for over a decade, so I have my look down pat and can do it in under 5 minutes. I brush and fill in my brows with powder to define them, then do a nude eyeshadow look (3-4 different colours blended from the Urban Decay Naked palette), then light eyeliner (occasionally in fun colours, but usually dark), then two coats of mascara and a light BB cream on my skin. It sounds like a lot, but I don’t “look” like I have on a full face, because I rarely wear anything on my lips and usually even then it’s a tinted chapstick.

      It did take me a while to get up to doing everything quickly, though! It’s only easy and quick now thanks to practice.

    6. Fabulous*

      I usually just do some concealer if the dark circles are noticeable or if I’ve got a spot, a light powder all over for shine control, blush, and mascara. I also will use my blush as eyeshadow. Usually just takes me a couple minutes in the morning.

    7. Dankar*

      Blush, highlighter, eyeshadow/liner. If I’m really invested in doing my eyeshadow, it can take up to 20 minutes, but I’d say I usually average around 10.

      I work in higher ed at a women’s college, so a lot of people here don’t wear any makeup. I would say I probably do the most in my department. (Which was shocking when I started, since it’s so low-maintenance!)

    8. Murphy*

      It takes me between 5 and 10 minutes to put makeup on.

      I wear foundation (with primer) and powder, eyeshadow and eyeliner. I sometimes use lipgloss, but I’ll usually apply it later because I’ll just wear it off eating or drinking coffee.

    9. Jule*

      Foundation, sometimes with primer and/or concealer
      Quick swipe of pencil eyeliner + eyebrow pencil
      Mascara
      Lip balm

      I haven’t timed it but it must take less than three minutes. I have had skin issues in the past so looking in the mirror and seeing smoother skin makes the whole day go by easier, and defining my eyes helps too.

    10. Delphine*

      I generally hate makeup and often go without, but for work I wear a bit of foundation, blush, and a sheer lipstick. It takes me less than five minutes to get it all on.

    11. WellRed*

      Bb cream instead of foundation, eyeliner, mascara, ocassionally a bit of neutralish eye shadow. Natural but polished 5 minutes or less.

    12. Aunt Vixen*

      I do a dusting of face powder, a little eyeliner top and bottom (and then I smooth my brows down with the smudging end of my kohl pencil, which darkens them just a bit), and a lip stain that I have to put a balm on after it dries. The whole thing probably takes three to five minutes and I do it between finishing my OJ and getting my kid in the stroller and out the door to day care. If I skip the powder I’m down to one or two minutes probably. I can also be persuaded to skip the lipstick. I don’t really like leaving the house without eyeliner, though; I’ve reached a point where I feel like I look like I don’t feel well if I have no face on at all.

    13. Squeeble*

      These days I do a little eyeliner, mascara, and lipstick (sometimes with lip liner). Occasionally I wear foundation and powder if I feel like I need some extra smoothing out of my skin tone. In all it probably takes 3 minutes. It took a lot longer before I found an acne medication that works for me :)

    14. Aunt Vixen*

      I do a dusting of face powder, a little eyeliner (and then smooth down my eyebrows with the smudger end of my kohl pencil, which also darkens them just a bit), and a lip stain that I have to put a balm on after it dries. The whole thing takes about three minutes and I do it between finishing my OJ and getting my kid in the stroller and out the door to day care. If I skipped the powder I’d be down to about one or two minutes. I could also be persuaded to skip the lipstick, but I don’t really like leaving the house without eyeliner – I’ve reached the point where I feel like I look like I don’t feel well if I go out without any face on at all.

      (apologies if this ends up posted twice. first response may have gone to moderation, but I can’t think why it would, so it may have just got et.)

    15. ThatGirl*

      I do, but not much – I wear mineral powder foundation, so I start with a powder primer, then the base, apply concealer as needed, then finishing dust. Add mascara. It’s mostly just dusting powder over my face, so it takes maybe 5 minutes max. I work at a large consumer products company in a casual work environment, but that’s just my normal everyday “feeling polished” makeup anyway.

    16. Claire (Scotland)*

      For work, I usually wear eyeshadow, eyeliner, mascara, brow powder, foundation, concealer, powder, blusher and lipstick. It takes about ten minutes to do my full face, as I’m only using neutrals and keeping it pretty simple.

    17. Mona Lisa*

      It depends on the day for me. During the summer since I walk/bike to work, I wear very little or no make-up to my job since it’s so hot and humid. My go-to is a CC cream (Urban Decay One and Done), sometimes some concealer, blush, and mascara. This takes me less than 5 minutes. In the winter or on days when I have meetings, I might throw in some eye shadow and lipstick, but this usually doesn’t take more than another 5 minutes.

      I’ve had this routine or something similar for 15+ years now, which might contribute to the short time frame. It’s only recently now that my adult acne (ugh) is under control that I’m feeling more comfortable forgoing make-up entirely. Something else that helps is that I pick a routine and stick with it; if I feel like experimenting with new eye shadow colors or techniques, I try those out on the weekend and then incorporate them into my daily look once I’m more comfortable with the process.

    18. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Takes me about 5 minutes. I do liquid foundation, concealer if needed, eyeliner, powder, lip gloss. I used to wear mascara and eyeshadow every day and that only added a little extra time. I work in a VERY casual but professional office and I came from another casual office where I dropped the eyeshadow and mascara after about 6 months. I keep things very basic and don’t change colors of eyeliner and lipstick very often. When I worked in retail last year I rarely even bothered with the lip gloss.

      I use a cosmetic sponge to apply my foundation and a brush to apply powder. One thing to note is that I’ve been wearing makeup since I was 11, so I’ve had over 25 years of practice. When I do makeup to go out, it still takes me less than 10 minutes to do my face. My hair is another story.

    19. Emi.*

      I wear CC cream, eyeshadow, and mascara. It takes me ~5 minutes, maybe 10, depending on how much I’m chatting with my husband while I’d doing it. I’m planning to add blush, because just the CC cream makes me look a little washed out.

    20. Dana Cardinal*

      It takes me 5 minutes to apply my makeup for work, maybe 10 if I decide to try something fancy. But I’ve been wearing makeup for half my life now, so I’m fairly experienced at it. I’m in an office job, with a dress code solidly on the “business” end of business casual. Usually I wear concealer, foundation, neutral eyeshadow, eyeliner, and mascara. Sometimes I fill in my eyebrows, but not often. Occasionally I’ll wear liquid eyeliner instead of pencil, and that will take a few more minutes. I also carry lipstick and sometimes wear it.
      At this point, I have it down to a ritual, and the only real variety comes from the colors of eyeshadow I use.

      1. Dana Cardinal*

        Forgot to mention – I’ve been contouring lately because I have a young-looking face (I’m often mistaken for a teenager) and it makes me look a tad older to have my cheekbones defined.

        2. LemonTime*

          I want in on this too! From the video I just watched it doesn’t seem too bad. Also: oh, so that’s what those little brushes are for. Huh. Thanks for the tip!

    21. Perpetua*

      I put on BB cream (mostly under my eyes and on the cheeks), a bit of pressed powder, black eyeliner (it usually takes me less than a minute for both eyes, I’m so used to it by now), mascara and some blush.

      All in all, it takes me around 5 minutes, maybe 7-10 if I’m being really slow with it or on the days when the eyeliner just won’t cooperate and I can’t seem to get a decent line even after spending 10+ Q-tips on removing the troublesome parts. Those days are rare, but they do happen. :D

      I think it’s important to find what works for you, maybe experiment a bit. It can be of great help if you have someone close to you who is enough into makeup to share good knowledge, help you choose and give you some recommendations, but not too much into it so they push the latest trends on you or make you feel like you NEED to do EVERYTHING. Once you find a look (or several) you like, it can be much easier to try and speed up a specific part of the routine.

    22. Myrin*

      My goodness, I’m doing much less than most other commenters and yet I’m taking the longest yet? When I wear makeup, I only wear mascara and eyeshadow but it takes me about 15 minutes. I’m taking a wild guess here that the fact that I will never be apply to apply mascara smudge-free is a significant part of those fifteen minues. I always look like a weird panda after my first round of mascara and then I have to remove the black all around my eyes and then I put on eyeshadow but for some reason it always lands very visibly on my lashes and then I have to – carefully, lest I become Panda 2.0! – put on another half-round of mascara so that it looks normal. I know why I’ve been going bare-faced lately.

      1. Talvi*

        I’m in this boat, to0! I just do eyeliner, mascara, and lipstick, but it’ll still take me 15-20 minutes! Part of the problem is I never used to wear makeup (then I discovered how much I like wearing red lipstick, and started wearing eyeliner to balance it out a little) so I’m still getting used to it, part is that I’m very nearsighted so applying eye makeup involves a hand mirror and some awkward contortions, part is my love of dark lipstick (which means the lip line has to be just so or it’s very noticeable)…

      2. medium of ballpoint*

        I have pretty watery eyes and can be prone to the panda look. I’m not sure if this’ll help, but here’s what I do: I look for mascara formulas that are drier (the Clump Crusher that comes in the green tube is great for this, can’t remember the brand at the moment) and I’ll often buy a mascara before I need it, open it once, and let it dry out a little before I use it regularly. I avoid mascara on my lower lashes and usually curl my eyelashes before putting on mascara and lightly again after it’s dried. Those things seem to help me. I still get a little smudging as the day wears, but it’s not terrible.

        1. Rainy, not-PI*

          Try a primer–if you go to sephora they’ll get you samples of a few mascara primers that you can then apply with a spoolie or an old, washed, mascara wand.

          My mascara doesn’t move anymore, ever, and I have *terrible* allergies! :)

        2. Myrin*

          Oh, I don’t get any smudging during the day at all, it’s really just when I apply it. And I’ve been doing this for fifteen years and it’s always been like that – I guess it’s part that I have pretty long upper lashes and part that I can’t be bothered to try and change anything about the way I apply it. And I don’t mind the clean-up, I have a very good liquid for it and 15 minutes isn’t a HUGE!1!! amount of time, but I was wondering about the difference.

      3. Rainy, not-PI*

        Dry mascara formula (Clinique has a good one) and MASCARA PRIMER FIRST, I like smashbox.

        Best order in my experience is: eyeshadow, eyeliner, clean up any shadow fall out with a makeup wipe, rest of face, curl eyelashes, mascara primer, mascara. If you miss with the mascara, a cotton swab pressed into the wipe to pick up some wipe liquid and then dabbed at the spots will lift them.

        1. Rainy, not-PI*

          Oh and I never put mascara on my lower lashes. I have almond-shaped eyes so that works for me really well, but if you have more round or deepset eyes your mileage may vary.

        2. Myrin*

          Well, I definitely can’t do eyeshadow first because then The Panda happens and I will have to remove half of it again when I get rid of the smudges. (I feel like I might have worded this in a way that could be misunderstood – I don’t have any smudge problems during the day, I just dab the brush all over my face while applying mascara. It has nothing to do with the consistency or make-up (ha!) of the mascara and everything with my long lashes and swiping-hands-technique.) And that’s all just way too much effort for me, honestly. I use mascara – eyeshadow – mascara and that’s already quite enough for me – I’m so lazy, I can’t be bothered to do more.

          1. Rainy, not-PI*

            Haha okay, no worries. :) Although I wonder if a bigger handle on the wand would give you more control?

    23. k8*

      i don’t wear makeup on a regular basis, especially in the heat. I work in influencer marketing, which means that my office IS generally very image-conscious– but since I’m a programmer and am not client-facing at all, it doesn’t really matter for me.

      when i do wear makeup, a basic look takes 15 minutes maximum. but honestly, that’s fifteen minutes that could be spent sleeping, so it usually doesn’t happen . . .

      1. Nicotene*

        Yeah plus one. I don’t wear makeup except for one product that is to make me look less shiny. It’s like a foundation powder (?). I swipe it over my face right after I finish my hair and then I’m out the door. Time, five seconds. (I do have a different one for summer than winter, since I’m tanner in the summer). I get away with this by never having worn makeup at this job, so everybody is accustomed to my regular face. Also it’s kind of a granola-y office, most women don’t wear much here.

        1. Annie Moose*

          Sounds kinda like me. I use a concealer (for red spots and dark circles under my eyes) and powder foundation. If I’m having a particularly good skin day, I might skip the concealer (or not wear makeup altogether). I know I’m fairly lucky in that my skin usually looks OK anyway.

          I’m a programmer who works mostly with guys, so I guess I fulfill the stereotype of the female nerd who doesn’t care what she looks like! I’m not client-facing and I don’t enjoy putting on make-up, so why put myself through that? Also, I’m always running late and don’t have time to do more anyway.

          (honestly, make-up intimidates me a bit. I can handle “cover up spots” and “even out skin tone”, but when it comes to coordinating eyeshadow color or whatever, I’m totally lost)

    24. Rusty Shackelford*

      I work in an office, and I have pretty bad skin (possibly undiagnosed rosacea) so I wear a full face: foundation/primer, blush, eye shadow, eyebrow color, eyeliner, mascara/primer. It usually takes about 20 minutes, but I can do it in 10 if I have to.

    25. Iris Eyes*

      Depending on the day and how much time I have before I need to be at my desk:
      Usually I try for lip stick/gloss and eyeliner+mascara, that makes me look like I did something (2 ish minutes)
      If I have some more time or more issues I use foundation (a more sheer coverage keeps you from needing blush or all that contouring stuff) and eye shadow as well (5 minutes or so total?)
      This is usually done in my car, sometimes I get started while driving (yes yes I know ) but more often in my parking spot.
      Top tip:color is everything, the less dramatic and more natural /flattering your colors are the less you have to worry about getting it “just right”

    26. jmm*

      My makeup is light but covers up redness and makes me feel more polished. I just clean my face, apply moisturizer with sunscreen, then a tinted moisturizer (Almay smart shade anti-aging) that covers well, then groom my brows with an old toothbrush, then apply mascara and lip gloss. This all takes about 5 minutes.

    27. R2D2*

      My routine is similar to others who have commented!
      * Eyeliner, Mascara, Mineral Powder, Blush (Winter) or Bronzer (Summer)
      * 5-10 Minutes
      * I work at a bank in the US.

    28. Bye Academia*

      I have been pretty anti-makeup my whole life, but have recently started exploring it. It took me a long time to settle the tension between feeling like one is supposed to wear it (and have a knee jerk reaction against societal pressure) and using it for self-expression/fun. But since I haven’t been wearing it for years like everyone else my age, it also takes me forever and I am still not used to how it feels on my face.

      So for work, I stick with minimal steps that make me look more groomed and awake. For me, this means eyebrow gel to tame my old man eyebrows, curling my eyelashes, and undereye concealer. It takes me probably 3-5 minutes.

      1. Nicotene*

        I sympathize with this tension. To me, makeup always felt kind of sexualized, since I mostly wore it only on dates where I was trying to appear attractive to men. Since I’m not trying to attract men at work it always seemed odd to me to wear it [I totally recognize that this is a me-issue and not at all how other people feel about makeup; I’ve always struggled with looking “attractive” when not trying to literally attract people.

    29. Neosmom*

      I do not wear make up. I stopped many (10?) years ago and am very fortunate that I do not need it to minimize scarring or other blemished on my face. My primary reason for stopping was I do not like the idea that human female beauty in “Western” culture is epitomized by how women look in the midst of “ultimate pleasure”.

    30. ginger ale for all*

      I wear BB cream or a high SPF sunblock, mascara, and lip gloss or sheer lipstick most days. Sometimes I add eyeliner or a bit of blush. A while back, a post was made on the open topic Sunday about dyeing your eyelashes/eyebrows and I have been doing that and it is a minor miracle for me. I have rosacea and as long as my cheeks are toned down, I am happy with the less is more routine.

      1. ginger ale for all*

        I forgot the other part of the question – it takes me about 8 minutes from washing my face to the end. I work in a library. If I am in a rush, I just get the SPF on and go. I keep lip balms and glosses at my desk for touch ups. I also wear glasses with peacock blue frames so I don’t feel as if I need to go ‘all out’ since I already have ‘jewelry’ for my face.

    31. KR*

      It takes me 10 minutes to apply makeup usually. Usually a little less, maybe more if I’m trying for foundation or winged eyeliner. I usually wear a little eyeliner or mascara (I don’t put on eyeliner if I’m in a rush because of how easy it is to mess it up), but I almost always wear eyeshadow – a darker color in the crease and a lighter color on the lid. Just to give my eyes some definition. I keep my lipstick in my purse so it’s usually a spur of the moment decision whether I want to wear lipstick and often happens at work. I work in a remote office and don’t have to dress fancy at all but I do this even when I’m dressing up for work (visits, work travel, ect). Sometimes I have to go on site or do physical work and it’s very hot where I live, so I usually have to wear setting spray so I don’t sweat it off and I don’t wear dark colors on those days since it’s more noticeable when the makeup runs.

    32. Purplesaurus*

      < 5 min on days that I wear it.
      – SPF Primer
      – Under eye concealer
      – Mascara
      – Brow gel

    33. Rainy, not-PI*

      I’m very femme presenting, and I wear a full face daily. It takes me 20-30 minutes to do hair and makeup in the mornings unless I straighten my hair (which I don’t do that often–I have a lot of hair).

      On an average day I wear: moisturizer, liquid foundation, blush, bronzer, 2 kinds of highlighter, powder, full eye shadow (2-4 shades depending on look), liner, mascara, brow colour, and usually lip colour or a tinted lip balm. I worked up to this. I spent several years wearing mineral foundation, eyeshadow, liner, mascara, and finishing powder only, which took me–ha ha sigh–about the same amount of time to put on that my full face does now. (I got better at it.)

      A lot of it is just practice, and finding the products and application tools and techniques that work for you. If I’m really in a hurry I can do my makeup in under 10 minutes, but I’m usually not in that kind of hurry.

    34. EmilyG*

      I’d guess I spent about 7 minutes (more than 5, less than 10!) on makeup that I think makes me look more polished (=less young). I work in an office whose formality is all over the place.

      I wear a matte SPF 45 sunscreen every day. Then different concealers on my lids and under eyes. Light foundation. Blush. Brow powder. Eyeliner pencil.

      I don’t think it looks very “done up” because I only wear lipstick/eyeshadow/mascara for special occasions at night. I’m nearsighted and only started wearing makeup routinely a few years ago, and it definitely took me longer at first. I listen to NPR while getting ready so it doesn’t feel like a huge waste of time.

      1. Rainy, not-PI*

        I can’t hear anything about politics while getting ready or I end up going super heavy on the blush and bronzer. I call it “AngryBlush” like “Oh, sorry, I read Twitter while I was doing my makeup and ended up with AngryBlush today”.

    35. Shellesbelles*

      I don’t always wear makeup to work, but my office is very casual and not public-facing except for special events.

      Makeup application for me takes between 10 – 30 minutes, depending on what I’m doing, but these are the things I find make the most difference for my face:

      – Filling in my eyebrows.
      – Eyeliner (though not underneath the eyes).
      – BB cream or a sheer bit of foundation.
      – Soft, pink lipstick or gloss.

      If I go full face, I tend to go for a modernized pinup look, as that’s what works best with my retro features. Also, I love playing around with a bright or vampy lipstick, which is acceptable at my current office, but may not be other places.

    36. Portia*

      I wear foundation, mascara, eyebrow pencil, blush, and lip stain/balm. I’ve been doing basically the same makeup since I was about 21, so it’s totally routine now. It takes me about 5-8 minutes, I’d guess, except on mornings when my allergies are bad and I sneeze and smear mascara everywhere. :/ I’m a teacher.

    37. Beckie*

      I work in a business casual office environment, and there is a wide range of how “dressy” people are with their outfits, and how much makeup the women wear. I’m somewhere in the middle on both counts.

      I almost always do eyes (eyeliner and mascara, usually eyeshadow) and lips (lip liner, lipstick, lip gloss), because I think it helps define my face better. That takes me about 2-3 minutes in the morning.

      If I am working at an event or have a major meeting, I will add the rest of my face (undereye concealer, foundation powder, blush). It only adds about another 2-3 more minutes to the process, but I don’t love the full-makeup look on myself so I don’t do it every day.

    38. Cloud Nine Sandra*

      About ten minutes ish, but it can go faster. Some kind of primer/foundation then powder for the face. Eyeliner, mascara, eye shadow for the eyes. Lipstick. Then I use setting spray for the face and I’m good to go. Some of that time is me deciding between which eyeliner, which eye shadow, which lipstick.

    39. Annie Mouse*

      I’ve only recently started wearing anything more than a smudge of concealer to hide the black rings under my eyes! I wear moisturiser, primer, foundation and then the concealer now, just to take the edge off my paleness :) It takes 5 mins max and I only use a very little bit of everything. I work on ambulances in pre-hospital emergency care and I actually find that amazingly, the vast majority stays on all day, even in unfavourable conditions. Occasionally, I add a little bit of lipstick in a subtle colour, if I remember it!!
      I’m with you on the makeup being time consuming, that’s the main reason it’s taken me so long to start using it.

    40. Elizabeth West*

      I wear concealer, a little bit of foundation to even out skin tone, shadow, mascara and a bit of liner, and lipstick. It takes me about ten minutes to put it on in the morning, depending on how many zits I have to cover up, LOL.

      It takes practice to be able to do it fast, but I don’t do very elaborate eye makeup, either. If you want to wear it regularly, you can find a tutorial for everyday looks you like and practice on weekends.

    41. Chaordic One*

      Because I wear glasses I usually do not bother with mascara. I moisturize, use a powder for shine control, a bit of concealer and then just a bit of lip gloss. Occasionally I’ll use a lipstick and bit of blush. It usually takes me about 5 minutes, or maybe 10 minutes tops when I’m trying to make an extra good impression.

    42. Optimistic Prime*

      I don’t usually wear makeup to work. Only if I feel like putting some on in the morning. When I do, I wear a CC cream, setting powder, some brow powder/pencil, eyeshadow (1-3 colors), eyeliner, mascara, blush, and a lip gloss or lipstick. It takes me about 10-15 minutes to put together. But it took me a while to get it down to that…when I first started using makeup and was experimenting with what looked good on my face, it took me like 30+ minutes.

  34. Near the Border*

    Does anyone in the US work in one state and live in another? How does that work with taxes, etc? I’m thinking about looking for a job in Toledo, OH when living in Michigan. I’ll most likely be moving closer to the border within the next year or two to be closer to my husband’s work. I really don’t care where I work and my husband wants to retire where he’s at, so it makes sense to cut down his drive time if we can! Just wondering about the logistics of cross-state employment :) Thanks!

    1. Lady Jay*

      I do some remote work, and because I don’t actually leave my home state, I only have to file state taxes for my home state. I’m earning the money in my state, even though the job is based in a separate state. However, when I was reading up on this the first time I filed taxes for my remote work, it seemed to me that if I actually worked in another state, I would need to file income taxes for both my home state & the state I was working in.

    2. JR*

      For the most part, you only pay state taxes in the state where you live. Just make sure when you start the job to talk to whoever handles payroll to make sure they take out taxes for MI and not OH. It’s generally not a big deal. I live in the DC area, and pretty much all employers are used to paying state taxes for VA, MD, and/or DC depending on where an employee lives.

      1. NotAnotherManager!*

        I believe that Virginia, Maryland, and DC have reciprocity agreements that allow residents of one state to be exempt from paying state tax in another. If the states don’t have a reciprocity agreement, it’s possible you have to pay both. (For instance, Virginia doesn’t have reciprocity with Tennessee. Tennessee doesn’t have a state income tax for employment, and Tennessee residents working in Virginia have to pay non-resident state taxes to Virginia. Virginia residents working in TN have to pay Virginia taxes, which their employer may or may not withhold/pay for them.)

        Short answer: Check the Ohio and Michigan departments of taxation pages to see whether or not they have reciprocity agreements.

    3. Margaret*

      Accountant here – as a general rule, your income is taxable where you live, and also taxable where you work if that’s different. If both states try to claim your income, they each have different rules about how to handle it – ultimately you only pay taxes to one state!
      On the west coast, you generally file the nonresident (where you work but don’t live) state return, pay the tax to them, and then file your resident state and calculate the tax including on your salary, but then take a credit because you paid tax on the some income to another states. (And some states have agreements to do the reverse.) On the east coast, I don’t deal with it often but my understanding is that a lot of states have agreements so that even if you’re working in one states, if you live in another state they’ll just treat you as working there, or vice versa. (Since the states are smaller and commuting from one state to another is more common.)
      Ultimately, you need to know what state will tax you, and have withholding accordingly. Talk to HR/payroll – they should know how it should work, and it’s their responsibility to get correct, in most ways (and things like unemployment tax have similar rules setup). But I’d recommend you verify that it ends up happening correctly so you’re not surprised at tax time! (Worst case scenario is you file, pay tax to a state that you didn’t have withholding on, and wait for a refund from a state you had withholding on but don’t owe tax to. Annoying, to a degree depending on cash flow flexibility.)

    4. Gwen Stefani-Shelton*

      I did a very long time ago. I do remember having to file in both states but I no longer remember any of the specifics about how it went. I just e-filed and didn’t have to do anything special. I think I got refunds from one state and then paid a very low amount (like less than $50) to the other state but I don’t know if that would be typical of that situation.

    5. Aunt Vixen*

      Get ready for a raft of responses from folks in the DC area. :-)

      I believe many states have arrangements with their neighboring states to accommodate people who live and work on opposite sides of state lines. If you work in Maryland, you can be exempt from withholding Maryland state tax if you live in DC, Virginia, West Virginia, or Pennsylvania (and maybe also Delaware? I can’t remember). But you do have to arrange to have the state tax withheld for the state where you do live. (Ask me how I found out that doesn’t happen automatically.) If you work in DC, there are great odds that you live in either Maryland or Virginia, so the W4 makes it easy to have the tax withheld in the correct state. I would assume that Ohio has some such reciprocal deal set up with Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania, where you demonstrate that you lived in Ohio for 0% of the tax year so your state taxes should go to the state where you live instead of the state where you earned your money – but have a good look at your state return form instructions to be sure.

      1. NotAnotherManager!*

        Oh, god, and this reminds me that you should CHECK YOUR PAYS TUBS REGULARLY to ensure someone hasn’t biffed your taxes if you’re somewhere that there are multiple residency options. My husband works in Maryland for a DC-based company, and they randomly decided to move his state taxation — first to New York (where we have never lived or worked) and then to Maryland (where we also do not live). It was a mess to figure out, his withholding for the year was never sorted out or explained to our satisfaction, and it did have an impact on our taxes for the months they hadn’t withheld properly.

    6. SophieChotek*

      I work in one state (remotely) for a company that has its HQ in another state. I only pay taxes for the state in which I live.

    7. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      I live in Indiana, but work in Kentucky. I only have to file a KY tax return if KY taxes are withheld, in order to have them returned to me. I file my IN tax return as normal, and report any KY tax paid and get “credit” towards taxes that are owed in IN. Thankfully, it’s super easy for me because my employer just withholds IN taxes from my check so I don’t have to deal with the filing in KY at all.

      A quick google tells me that MI/OH have a similar reciprocal agreement.

    8. Master Bean Counter*

      I used to do this. I lives in Missouri and worked in Kansas. I’d file non-resident in Kansas, get all of my income tax back form them. Then I’d file in Missouri and turn over most of the money I got back from Kansas. With the new tax software I imagine that multiple state filings and coordinating between the returns is much easier these days.

    9. Other Duties as Assigned*

      A humorous aside—
      At OldJob, one fellow employee worked at one of our satellite offices in our state, but lived across the border in the next state. He found that gasoline was quite a bit cheaper where he lived (balanced somewhat by higher auto registration fees), but beer was much cheaper in our state because the beer tax was last raised sometime in the 1960s. Result: he always bought gas in his home state and made sure to buy beer on our side of the border.

      A win-win!

    10. edj3*

      I live in Kansas and work in Missouri. I file in both states (generally owe a bit to one and get about the same amount back from the other). I’m also required to pay Kansas City city tax (IIRC it’s 1% of my income), which is supposed to pay for the wear and tear I impose on KC city streets. That part is a total joke, since the roads absolutely suck.

    11. A Non E. Mouse*

      I live in one state and work in another; you’ll need to be sure about laws specific to each state your dealing with, but here’s how mine works:

      1) Work State: my employer takes taxes out for both states plus one locality (CITY INCOME TAXES CHAP MY ASS…ahem). I usually get a tiny refund from Work State (like, $200 or less) during return season.

      A bonus function of this is I have a library card in Work State, because I pay taxes here. :) It’s a bonus library system!

      2) Home State then gives me a credit for the amount I paid in taxes to Work State, via a specific form I have to fill out each year. This credit, plus the meager amount that was withheld for Home State on my paychecks, usually gets me to a Net Zero owe/refund across both states – I usually get owe a tiny amount to Home State.

      The first year was weird, but I am able to do my taxes myself so not that bad.

    12. Otter box*

      When I lived in Maryland but worked in DC, I paid Maryland income tax and was exempt from DC tax. However, both my parents live in Washington state and work in Oregon, and they both pay Oregon income tax because Washington doesn’t have an income tax. It’s really going to vary based on the laws where you live.

  35. Lady Jay*

    I’ve been waiting all week for a chance to vent!

    I’m currently enrolled in an online graduate certificate program (based on the West Coast) for further training in my field. It is a reliable and worthwhile certificate. So far, the classes have been fairly good: not life-changing, a little busy work, but I’ve had supportive instructors and I have learned some good things.

    But NOW. I am finishing the fourth and final course and the instructor is just TERRIBLE. I don’t want to go into details on a public site, but suffice it to say, he doesn’t respond to emails in a helpful way, tends to “spring” assignments on students at the last minute in a way that makes it hard to get done, and is generally not very good at making students feel positive and supportive. I’ve gotten nothing but positive feedback from other instructors in this course, and all of a sudden I feel as though I’m the problem student. :(

    1. SophieChotek*

      From you write, you have a problem professor/instructor. A pop quiz is one thing, last minute assingments is totally something else. Hope you get through this.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      You need to contact the dean’s office or department office or advising office. And make sure you do the end of course evaluation. If students don’t tell us about these things, how on earth are we to know!!

      1. Rainy, not-PI*

        This.

        I think in your situation I’d first talk to the program manager for your certificate. If I got no love there, I’d talk to the professor in question’s head of department, and escalate to the dean as needed.

      2. Lady Jay*

        Waiting for the course evaluation to be sent. Hasn’t come yet. It’s a very small department & I still have to get through an internship, so I don’t want to blow up my reputation completely. I do think it’s a first-time issue – a little Googling suggests that the teacher just joined the program.

        1. Wheezy Weasel*

          I think if you frame your concerns appropriately, it won’t impact your reputation. For instance, you could say ‘As a working student, I need to plan my coursework and study time availability several weeks in advance because I /travel quite a bit for work/care for a sick relative/am on-call for work/work off-hours. When Professor X requires assignments during the term that were not disclosed on the syllabus, I don’t have enough time to work on them to produce the quality that is required. In the future, disclosing these assignments at the start of class will help future students perform well’. You’re stating why it affects you and what you’d like to have done differently.

          I support faculty for a living and this comes up quite a bit: many of them aren’t really in touch with how regimented graduate students need to keep their personal lives, and a last-minute work trip can cause people to fail classes because of the cascading schedule conflicts.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            This.
            I had an online course where we all felt buried. The course required several hundred pages of reading each night. No one could keep up. The discussion section online fell silent a week or so into the course as everyone struggled just to get through the readings.
            Finally one brave soul spoke up. “I am here to learn but I cannot learn if I cannot complete the readings.” And she went on from there in a well expressed manner like what Wheezy shows above here.
            She said this in the online discussion area.

            The prof did not realize we were struggling so much. He failed to correctly estimate how long it would take a newbie to cover this jargon laden material.
            He adjusted the readings for the course.
            Online discussions improved.

            The next hurdle that came up was we were not getting our tests back. We needed to see his responses before we got too deep into the next section as each section built on the previous section. So back to a comment in the online discussion area. Again, well stated, showing reasons why it was in the prof’s best interest to let us know how we did.

            The course involved a LOT of writing I think the prof was overwhelmed by the amount of material we gave him back.

    3. Jessi*

      Talk to the person in charge of the course?

      I would point out that you have paid money for it and some of the point of online courses is that people can work at the same time but that the lack of organisation is making this hard. Ask what can be done and I would include that you found instructors 1-3 excellent

  36. red_one*

    Oh man, thank goodness it’s Friday open thread! I just had an awkward work situation come up this morning!

    I interviewed someone for a very hard to fill role and they seem great, and as long as all their background check and references come back clean I’d like to hire them. Only problem is that when they were in for their interview, one of my coworkers saw him and turns out they are a recent ex, and apparently the breakup was pretty bad (my coworker looked like they’d seen a ghost!). Our company is very close knit, both personally and literally (we work in a small space), so they wouldn’t be working directly together, but would see each other in the same environment a lot.

    I’ve had a really hard time filling this position, so I’m hesitant to write someone off due to interpersonal drama! Help!

    1. neverjaunty*

      “Interpersonal drama” = people being able to get along day to day, which is as important as technical skills. People aren’t robots and it isn’t necessary “drama” if they have personal clashes.

      By bad breakup, is this a situation where someone behaved badly? Or just relatively fresh?

      1. red_one*

        I don’t mean to belittle anyone with the phrase “interpersonal drama”, I just wasn’t sure how best to phrase.

        I think it’s relatively fresh and a situation where they really liked each other, but couldn’t make it work. I was thinking if I hire the ex, I could have a sit down with my coworker to give them a heads up, but I’m not sure there is any good way to handle this!

        1. purple wombat*

          Is there a reason why you can’t ask the coworker about whether or not they’d be comfortable with the ex working there? I know I would initially be surprised if an ex of mine showed up to interview at my employer, but wouldn’t really care much about working with them if someone asked about my reaction afterward.

        2. neverjaunty*

          I don’t think you can discount this just because you really want to fill the position. Hire in haste, repent at leisure, etc. And you probably wouldn’t want your existing worker to start job hunting.

          Why not sit down with them and have an open-minded talk about whether it would be difficult if you hired the ex? Maybe the initial reaction was just surprise and things are okay now. Maybe the reason for the breakup was very serious. But “hey I just hired your ex, that’s cool with you, right?” is probably the least good option.

          1. purple wombat*

            Absolutely- If it wasn’t clear from my previous comment, I would recommend having the conversation with your co-worker BEFORE hiring this person.

          2. Rainy, not-PI*

            Yes. I mean, maybe it was just “oh god, recent ex” surprise, but the breakup might have involved more serious stuff, either violence or behaviour bad enough that your current employee wouldn’t be able to work around the person.

            Talking to your current employee is going to be the best way to find out.

    2. Takver*

      Talk to your co-worker. It’s possible they will be able to handle a professional interaction without drama.

    3. Undine*

      There’s a remote chance the interviewee is stalking the co-worker, so I would definitely talk to the co-worker, and try to give them a way to let you know if they don’t feel safe.

  37. Resignation Question*

    A while back I posted in one of these threads (don’t remember what my name was) about a friend who had started a new job that was turning out to be pretty toxic. He didn’t have the basic tools he needed to do his work, the job was generally not what he’d been led to believe during the interview, he was isolated from the rest of his teammates, there was a lot of overtime work, management wasn’t great, etc….he’s been there for about two months now and things have not really improved.

    His old job actually ended up hunting him down and giving him an offer to return, with a salary bump equal to what he earns now. My friend is thinking of resigning, but isn’t sure what to say. He doesn’t want to burn this bridge, and it’s already a tricky situation because he’s leaving so quickly. Granted, this is an office with a high turnover rate, but two months isn’t a long time… What can he say when he resigns to help ease the transition?

    Another question is, should he be open about returning to his old job if they want to know where he’s going? What’s the best way to phrase that so it doesn’t sound like, “I hate this job so much I’d rather return to the job I left”?

    2. Hmmmmm*

      This would be a much more difficult question if he didn’t have another offer. A short term employment really only hurts you when job hunting. It is easy to leave something like that off a resume. “I was made an offer I couldn’t refuse” sounds straight out of the godfather, but also is a good reason to leave a job. Even if he runs into some of his current coworkers down the line, they are unlikely to remember him, negatively or positively. If they do remember, they are unlikely to remember exactly how short it was or may even assume it was a temporary position all along.

    3. Natalie*

      He really doesn’t need to make a big deal about this – “the job isn’t a good fit, and my old employer has made me an offer to return” is all he needs to say, along with providing the amount of notice that’s typical for his field/level. If he’s dealing with a reasonable boss, it will probably affect his reputation a bit but not to bridge burning levels. If he’s not dealing with reasonable people, it doesn’t really matter what he does as they will likely have an unreasonable reaction to most anything.

    4. Chaordic One*

      I wouldn’t say anything about the old employer making an offer. Just leave it with it not being a good fit.

  38. Beth Anne*

    Does anyone know anything about how ziprecruiter sorts resumes? I applied for a job a few months ago and in a fb group I saw a guy post how he just hired someone using the site and loved how it sorted the like 100+ resumes. I responded that I applied for the job but didn’t hear and he went on how well I wasn’t sorted into his “interview” pile re the site. So how the heck do you make sure you are getting sorted properly?

  39. Backpacker seeking adventure*

    Hello! In a few years I would like to quit my job and take a 3 month backpacking trip. Has anyone done this before, and if so, did you find it hard to enter the workforce when you returned?

    1. Fishsticks*

      I have no advice, but this is something I desperately want to do in two years, but also am worried about returning to the work force!

      1. Hannah G.*

        I would like to think *most* employers would be receptive especially if you have a lot of experience in a particular field but I know that it’s not the “American” way of living which is work till you die. haha. I suppose it also depends on who you know in your industry as well. Either way I will probably just say fuck it and do it one day! I have a calendar appointment to start planning in 2 years and then take off in 3 :)

      1. Backpacker seeking adventure*

        You just have to do it! Only live once :) My belief is that work will always be there. Still nerve wracking though!

    3. o.b.*

      Speaking as someone who hires people occasionally—I wouldn’t have any opinion other than “that’s f—ing awesome.” I’d be a little envious, even. It wouldn’t hurt your chances unless you somehow, in leaving your last job, burnt that bridge… If you have a good reference from your last job, I don’t see why this would be to your detriment.

      Emotionally difficult to get back into ‘work’ mode? Maybe.

      1. Backpacker seeking adventure*

        So good to know! Definitely wouldn’t plan on burning any bridges. Thankfully my current boss is very very well known and respected in my industry so I would like to think I could get my job back or he would help me get another one.

        1. o.b.*

          Oh, awesome! If you did find yourself searching instead of returning to your current position, and are worried about the optics of a 3 month gap on your resume, just slip a short explanation into the first few paragraphs of your cover letter somewhere.

    4. jmm*

      Have you thought about talking with your current employer about taking a sabbatical? I would wait until maybe 9 months out before your trip, but who knows – they could value you enough to let you take 3 months off, unpaid, and then come back.

      I say this because we’re in a big transition period at work, and I’ve told my boss that I need a 9-month schedule (similar to a teacher’s schedule) to better care for my kids. We work in education, so it’s not unheard of, but she has actually approved my transition to a 187-day work year, instead of the 260 days I currently work. I’m beyond excited and hope to plan some really cool trips with my kids and husband.

      1. Backpacker seeking adventure*

        Yes I’ve considered asking my boss and probably will when the time comes! I do think he will be receptive however I’m his assistant so I’m not sure what he will think. There is a plus side since him and I get along really well so I think he would let me come back if we found a good temp.

        That’s awesome your boss is letting you have a 9 month schedule!! we all need more bosses like that :)

    5. Actuarial Octagon*

      I did this! Through SE Asia for just over 3 months. When I gave notice my manager actually asked if I would be interested in returning to the company when I was back. She couldn’t technically promise me the job, but I reached out to her about 3 weeks before my return and we talked through the new position and I accepted.

      Obviously, your situation may be different, but if you like the company you work for it may be worth broaching the subject. Also, in later jobs when I explain the small gap in employment people are amazingly supportive. Best of luck!

      1. Backpacker seeking adventure*

        Sooooooo awesome!!! I hope my boss would let me come back. We will see :) Hope you had a fantastic adventure!

    6. A.N.O.N.*

      I have a good friend who took 6 months off to hike the Appalachian trail. After the hike, she was going to move to a different state, and was hoping she could return to the same/similar job in the company’s offices in that state.

      When she resigned, they told her they couldn’t promise a job in the other state. There were no hard feelings about her leaving, though.

      After the hike and the move, her company didn’t actually have any openings in that state, and she had a bit of rough time finding a new job – not because of the hiking, but because it’s just a tough job market out there, and she wasn’t really able to start the job search until after the hike.

      I think if you’re able to get a new job lined up before you go on your hike thats starts 3 months later, that’s the best option. Otherwise, be prepared to start a new job search from scratch when you finish.

    7. llamateapot*

      I did this. Not for 3 months, but close. DO NOT do this without a job offer. I thought I’d easily find a new job after I came back because I was working at a pretty big and prestigious company. But no – I ended up being unemployed for close to a year and I went to grad school instead. I don’t regret going to grad school (it gave me some of the best years of my life) but I was naive to think I could easily re-enter the workforce after my long trip.

      If you’re really looking for a break, start looking for a new job now and when you have an offer in hand, negotiate your start date. Ask to start after your big trip.

    8. AdAgencyChick*

      I think it 100% depends on your field and your level of seniority.

      I wouldn’t chance it myself, since I am fairly senior and job openings at my level don’t happen often. On the other hand, more junior copywriters can find work with a snap of the fingers, and having been out of the workforce for 3 months wouldn’t matter a bit. In fact, I know someone who quit to move to the West Coast for several months, then backpack around Europe. When he returned to the States, he had been out of work for 6 or 7 months and had no trouble finding his pick of jobs.

    9. Jessi*

      I’m going to do this in 2019! All through SE Asia. Can’t wait.

      However, I am a nanny and will have no trouble finding a new position, or temping until the right long term position pops up.

      The idea to ask for a sabbatical is a good idea. I would potentially start looking for a new position before you are back though

  40. Dr. Johnny Fever*

    So I got laid off this week and didn’t see it coming. Philosophically I get it but it doesn’t make it hurt any less.

    I did receive a generous severance. Any suggestions on how to spend my time with job searching. I haven’t hunted for a job in 20 years – all my time is with the same company. Any ideas on how to position myself?

    1. Mazzy*

      In addition to all the standard advice I’d say, and this is my pet peeve when I hire, if you’re going to be applying to jobs at the same or a lower level or appear to be at a lower level because your title may have been inflated, somehow address that in your cover letter. And highlight specific duties and accomplishments that tie into what job you’re applying for. I get so many “generalist” resumes and cover letters that I don’t know what to do with especially when the person did one year of this and five of that and three of another thing and then can’t even write one sentence explaining what they WANT to be doing. Then I don’t know if the person is applying because they are applying to everything or applying because they loved the ad

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        Sorry about your layoff. I’ve been there. Just like you, I kind of didn’t see it coming. I was laid off after almost 20 years. I would say, get your bearings. Come to terms with what happened. Then start pounding the pavement. Maybe take some courses (something I didn’t do when I was laid off, but probably should have). If you can find some volunteer work, do that–it will look good on your resume.

        1. Dr. Johnny Fever*

          This is good advice. I plan to take a 2 week vacation with my newfound freedom, then begin work on materials that will be relevant later, as well as volunteer. I don’t know how long the search may take, so I talked things over with my therapist and am putting together a game plan to keep me sane.

    2. fposte*

      No advice beyond “read the archives,” but I’m sorry about your layoff, Dr. I was looking at old posts the other day and thinking of you.

  41. Generic Administrator*

    So, two months ago I started a job and since then have discovered that it has pretty much all of the hallmarks of a toxic company (nepotism, abhorrent conduct, poor to nonexistent processes for everything…), Jobs are hard to come by in my area so I’ve started to job hunt already.

    Is there anyway to honestly convey to interviews that I’m looking for a more professional work environment or should I just go with the standard “I’m interested in your opportunity” answer when applying/interviewing?

    1. Emily*

      Describing negative aspects of your current place is better done by stating positive things you are looking for. Look for reasons you are excited to work at THAT company, rather than focusing on reasons you want to leave your current one.

    2. Underpaid Bookkeeper*

      That is so hard! That is one of my biggest fears in looking for work is my current environment is awesome but I’m so good at my job I can do it in 25 hours and the pay is lower than I’d like..but I don’t want to work in a bad environment.

    3. Natalie*

      Assuming you’re leaving this job off your resume, I’d still be prepared to address it in case it comes up that you are currently working at a new job. You will need to be able to say something professional that specifically explains why you’re leaving after two months, since that’s unusual. Something like “the job isn’t a good fit” or “the job is significantly different than it was described” aren’t “badmouthing” your employer.

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        When you interview, instead of talking about the negative aspects of your current company, speak about the things you are looking for in a new job. So when asked “Why do you want to leave your current job?”, you can say because you are looking to utilize some particular skillset that isn’t being utilized in your current position. or something to that effect. But as much as you’d probably want to, don’t badmouth your current workplace.

  42. Batshua*

    I have a release date!

    My first day at my new job is August 28. I am DEFINITELY getting Rosh Hashanah off!

    And I’m going to pick up new skills and responsibilities, even if I don’t get a bump in title or pay, so my resume should look pretty awesome after I’ve been there a while.

    Now I have a few months to start figuring out what kind of GS-7 jobs I qualify for that aren’t lead clerk. (Lead clerks go to lots of horrible meetings about new policies they are powerless to change. That doesn’t sound like it’s worth the extra income to me.)

    2. Teapot Librarian*

      Baruch hashem! I was just thinking of you the other day and wondering if you had an update. I’m glad it’s a good one.

  43. Tathren*

    I’m looking for ways to tell my boss “You need to hire an IT person” when I’ve told him those exact words and he’s still trying to push major IT issues on me.

    Basically we need to overhaul our entire computer system. It’s outdated, it doesn’t work for us, it’s in danger of completely crashing on a near-daily basis… It’s pretty bad. I have what I would consider to be an “average” knowledge of computers, but which unfortunately is leaps and bounds ahead of what my boss knows. In his mind I’m the de facto IT person for the company and I absolutely not equipped for this at all. I can help him download attachments from his email, I can’t completely upgrade our entire computer system!

    I’ve told my boss this. I’ve told him “You need to hire an actual IT expert to help with this.” I’ve told him I can’t do the work because I don’t know how. I told him I have no suggestions for how to fix the current system and that he needs to hire someone to take care of this. Nothing works and my boss keeps telling me to “think of ideas and we’ll revisit this later.”

    I don’t know how to be more explicit about the fact that I cannot do what he’s asking me to do. Any suggestions for getting my boss to realize that he’s asking the impossible from me or resources I can give him to show that we need to hire an actual IT person would be greatly appreciated.

    1. The Other Dawn*

      I don’t have any suggestions, but can greatly empathize with you. I was in exactly the same position several years ago and it was SO frustrating. All this IT crap was on top of my daily job, which was basically Jill-of-all-Trades. I was constantly stressed and wanted to just run away. The only difference is that our company was close to closing for a long time, so it was a matter of money, and not a boss who wouldn’t listen. If we had the money and didn’t close, we would have outsourced an overhaul.

      Actually, is it possible to have a company come in and give you a proposal to do everything that needs to be done for the upgrade, as well as pricing for ongoing support (prices, hours required, etc.)? Maybe if he sees it all in black and white he’ll get it.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Your boss is probably thinking only of the cost of hiring someone else to do it. I suggest making him aware of the costs of NOT having someone else do it.
      * “We could spend $30,000 on the wrong system, because I have no idea what I’m doing.”
      * “Did you hear about what happened when Business X had a security breach? They had to spend a million dollars fixing that! I’m scared I don’t know enough about security to prevent something like that from happening.”

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Unfortunately, all of the stuff you’ve already told him is what I would suggest. Sounds as if he just doesn’t want to listen to reason. My worry is more that he’ll insist you do it (this thing you’re totally unqualified to do) and then blame you when things go wrong (even though you’re not an IT expert). If there is a magic bullet for this attitude, I’d love to hear it, too.

      1. Lora*

        Yeah, you’ve done what I would do. I mean, you could look for a suitable consultant and tell him, here’s my idea: call this person. Sometimes they will do that and sometimes you just wait for things to fail catastrophically and then they’ll be willing to invest the time and the effort – after they see the real risk for themselves.

        The whole “three styles of learning” thing has been disproved, and it turns out lots of people retain more information learned from experience than by didactic methods, so…yeah, people just gotta learn the hard way sometimes.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      If you were going to sway him by words alone, it would have already happened. It’s going to take consequences.

    5. Oops*

      Would it perhaps help if you researched and located an appropriate IT person / service? You might even see if you could get a free consult to get a sense of recommended steps / costs. Then you can present that to your boss “I’ve been thinking of ideas and here’s who I’ve found who I think can help us.”

      1. KR*

        This is a good idea. “I’m sorry Percival, but this is major work that I don’t know how to do and I’m not qualified to do. Here’s a quote from a company to do the work. ” Don’t even try to do it yourself and save the emails in which you tell him and he awknolages that he doesn’t want to handle his information the right way.

    6. diaphanous*

      Try to think of your self less as the project implementer and more as the project manager. Decide exactly what needs to be done (new servers? new laptops? new software? integrated phone/voicemail?). Research companies and go out for bids. Bring the proposals to your boss. He’s asking you to think of ideas, bring him ideas! Just don’t promise to do the work yourself.

      1. diaphanous*

        One idea would be to research the type of IT training/certification program you would need to do the work yourself and then work up a quote that includes those costs and timelines (in addition to the time to actually do the upgrade, and hardware/software costs). Bring that along with the bids from other vendors. Hopefully the risks, costs, and timeline associated with training you to do the work are infeasible.

        I do this kind of thing frequently in my job: scope, price, write justifications, address risks, expected payback, etc. But I rarely, if ever, do the work myself.

      2. Ashley*

        This should help. Also try to find a one or two man show that may not come up online. This works for our smallish company and my boss knows the cost is I might not get my issue fixed for a few hours but much cheaper so worth it for us.

    7. Observer*

      “We need an IT consultant for these complex projects.”

      Your boss doesn’t seem to be open to hiring another employee. But perhaps by limiting it in this way, it would help.

      Also, point out to him that he wouldn’t expect someone who has read a few legal blogs to take the place of his lawyer, so why is he expecting this in IT? Of course, if he DOES take that tack with his legal stuff, you have a bigger problem.

  44. A Person*

    Two of my co-workers have been off this week and woah. I knew some stuff was going on but WOW. I spent so much time this week knot untangling it has been ridiculous.

    My manager basically admitted he uses me as a problem solver. Especially with one of the holidaying staff, if she can’t handle something it often gets punted to me because she’s cheaper to pay. The other one just doesn’t invest time in the foundations but gets away with it because he otherwise does a functional job. I am sick and tired of both of them and some other staff because I often end up having to be *that* person and end up coming off like the bad guy because hardly anyone else does due-dilligence on the foundational stuff.

    Just. Urgh.

    I’m going to a festival this weekend. I am going to enjoy it and forget about work.

  45. Emily*

    How do you deal with coworkers who don’t care about doing their work correctly?

    I work on a team where we all cover for each other for vacations/sick days or whatever. One colleague in particular always does things incorrectly. It is annoying when he is covering and does your work incorrectly, but it is actually more frustrating, I find, when I go in to cover his work, and find loads of mistakes. Consistency is a HUGE deal in my work, and so I find I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. I either continue his (incorrect) ways, or I make corrections, but those corrections will be inconsistent with the rest of his work, because it is all done wrong.

    Taking this to my boss would mean throwing him under the bus. He is the most senior person in the group, besides my boss, so there is a good chance one day he will be my boss as well. When I gently try to ask him about “hey, why do you do this this way?” I basically get the answer “because I don’t give a ***t”

    Any advice? I am at my wits end with this guy. My other coworkers have also mentioned the same issues with him, although very diplomatically as we are not a gossipy kind of group.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Stop caring about whether he likes the way you cover HIS work. He doesn’t care whether you like how he covers yours!

      1. neverjaunty*

        Exactly. And it is NOT “throwing him under the bus” to point out to your boss that he is 1) doing poor work 2) that you have to fix 3) because he doesn’t care.

        “Throwing him under the bus” would be, both of you screwed up and you dumped the blame on him to protect yourself.

        I assure you if the situation were reversed he wouldn’t spend a second hesitating to complaint to the boss.

      2. Emily*

        That is a good point! Except that it isn’t really so much that I care how he feels, but that while it is wrong to do the work X way that he is doing it, it is ALSO wrong to change how something is being done. If I do it the right way one time, all of the rest of his work is not going to match, because he won’t change how he does it, and not having consistency is a big no-no.

        But you’re right that maybe I shouldn’t worry about it so much. Clearly he is not worried about it.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Then maybe that’s a decision your boss needs to make. “I can do this the way Fergus already does it, or I can do it the way I’ve been told to do it, but it won’t be consistent. Which do you prefer?”

          1. Zathras*

            This is also a good way to inform your boss about what Fergus is doing without feeling like you’re going out of your way to get him in trouble.

    2. A Person*

      I agree with the above. Go to your boss, because this guy will almost certainly get worse if he gets promoted.

      That said, what has worked for me is making a checklist of what I expect, which usually gets something reasonably close to what I would have done (more than either telling them/leaving notes does) and generally doesn’t require a lot of fixing when it gets back to me. It is though dependent on having the time and willingness to invest in making this stuff and probably wouldn’t work on your guy- but it might give you a trail you could present to your boss.

    3. kbeers0su*

      Oh, I would absolutely go to the boss. Especially if you think there is some possibility that this person may become your boss in the future- do you really want to be in that situation??

    4. Temporarily Anonymous*

      Hi Emily, I have no advice but I can commiserate! Just this week I had to give direction to a coworker who was covering my usual duties while I was working on another temporary assignment. They asked how to do a particular task that had recently changed its process (we had been specifically ordered by mgmt to do it the new way). I explained the new way and they said oh they don’t know how to do that* so they’ll just do it the old wrong way and see what happens. Cue head-desk banging.

      *Admittedly the new process sucks and makes a two step process into a more wasteful four step process but that wasn’t the reason; my coworker just didn’t want to have to learn anything new. And my boss is also extremely conflict averse so I have no recourse that I can think of when they underperform *while representing me*. Btw it was a basic office skill that they didn’t know that involved equipment that has existed since the late 90s/early 2000s.

      I’ll be watching the responses to see what advice you get!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        If someone insists on doing it the wrong way, sometimes I can say, “Then leave it for me to do. If you do it that way then it will have to be redone later. So just leave it and I will do it.” This does not fit all situations though.

        Other times I have found in roads with “If you do it X way then Y will happen.” This works if Y is a big deal or a scary deal.

  46. Does your lunch stink?*

    My company has adopted a flexible workplace floor plan (drop in space, state of the art technology, standing desks, cafe etc.) and it is really futuristic. The issue (for some) is that some of the employees consume traditionally ethnic food and the aroma at lunch is bothersome to many. I can’t smell it for some reason or it just doesn’t bother me but folks are really starting to grumble. I understand that at lunch, it is REALLY bad so much so that I have overheard people discussing options for making formal complaints.

    What are your thoughts on this situation? My thought is maybe requiring them to eat in the designated cafe seating area vs their desk. Issue is, folks would complain that they have stunk up that area too.

    What do we do?

    1. special snowflake*

      Tell the complainers to get over it.
      That’s a bit glib but to be honest it’s what needs to be said. If someone has a medical reason they can’t be around a specific smell (which I find hard to believe but I’m not an MD) then ban that specific item.
      But otherwise tell the complainers that they may not mean to sound xenophobic and mean but that is how they are behaving. Unless the office plans to dictate that everyone can eat garden salad with no dressing or pbj for lunch someone will always be upset. Food has scents – that’s life

    2. LCL*

      There is an eating area, with adequate microwave and fridge? Time for a no eating at the desk rule. Yes, that includes the people who have to eat lightly all day. They can go to the kitchen to eat their stringcheese and almonds.

    3. KR*

      Can a fan be turned on and a window be opened during lunch? You don’t even have to mention the traditional food it could be under the pretext of “there are a lot of food smells flying around during lunch so let’s get some fresh air in here when everyone is eating”. I mean, for all we know the traditional food eaters are bothered by the smell of the not traditional food.

    4. Over educated*

      Places are just going to get stunk up, especially in buildings where you can’t open windows and turn on fans because it’s all hermetically sealed and air conditioned. I don’t know if your cafe has space for everyone or BYO facilities like a microwave, or if it’s more of a “buy food here” counter type place, but whether you can make everyone eat there depends on those questions. If there isn’t a space to go eat food, then…yeah, smells are gonna happen.

      My office is moving to a temporary space where there is nowhere near enough space in the kitchen for more than a couple people to eat, and where we’re all in cubicles in one big semi-open office. There’s going to be a lot of eating at desks, which I personally hate, and nowhere close by to go out. I eat a lot of reheated Indian food, and I know from previous threads here that a lot of people consider that a particularly smelly “traditional cuisine”…but I’m certainly not going to stop cooking what I prefer to eat *at home* or expand my grocery budget and the time I spend on food prep to bring cold food because we have to eat at our desks to save the company money. There are limits to what you can ask of people. Asking their food not to smell when they otherwise have no control over the environment is kind of around that limit.

    5. Observer*

      If you have a decent eating place with adequate space and people are not de facto penalized for leaving their desk for lunch, you can mandate that anything that can be smelled more than x feet away (stay away from whether something smells bad!) should be eaten in the cafe area. And if anyone complains about the smell in the cafe, tell them to cut it out.

    6. Djuna*

      We have a no hot food at desks policy that works pretty well. The logic was that smells from hot food linger for longer. If your meal/snack isn’t hot, you can eat at your desk. If it’s hot, eat it in the cafeteria.

      Because the rule is easy to remember (and was enforced when it was introduced, is covered in onboarding, etc.), everyone follows it.

      If people want to complain of the cafeteria smelling of food…well, that can happen too (fish in the microwave, etc.), but at least it’s confined to that space. If the aroma bleeds out into common work areas, then maybe your company needs to look into installing extractor fans to help prevent that.

    7. Candy*

      I think management should require food be eaten in a designated area. It’s the best solution for all kinds of reasons (smells, mice, cleaning, etc)

      I have a coworker who eats microwave meals every day that are just pasta or something similar and they still stink. I don’t know what you mean by ethnic foods, but there are a lot of everyday “non-ethnic” meals that smell too so it would be best to contain all food to one area where food smells are to be expected.

  47. Frustrated Wife*

    My husband has been out of work for over a year. He’s only had 1 job in his entire life (he’s late 30s). He worked at the front desk of his families hotel. His family sold the hotel last year.

    He is so scared of getting a job he hasn’t made much progress. He even went as far as telling me how when you work for someone that isn’t family you have to save every nickel and dime you make and not spend money b/c you could get fired at any time. I told him that 90% of people work for other peoples for YEARS and never have any issues.

    Like money isn’t really the issue here it’s the fact that he has no self confidence and thinks he’s going to fail/get fired from a job before he even starts. And I work all day and when I come home he always wants to do something and doesn’t understand why I am tired and want to do nothing.

    I just don’t know what to do anymore or how to encourage him to get out of the house and feel somewhat productive. We live in a small town so jobs are harder to find to begin with as I’m looking for a new job too and there’s not much out there. I’m trying to be patient with him but it’s getting harder and harder. :(

    1. Summerisle*

      It must be hard for him to be looking for a new position when he’s only ever known one, and only ever worked for family – especially since he’s picked up some negative ideas about all non-family employers being very unstable etc.
      Does he have any connections who could put him forward for roles? He might feel more secure going for jobs where a friend/relative works already, so he knows he’s not walking into something completely blind.

      1. Frustrated Wife*

        Yeah that is probably the best scenario. I will have him reach out to people he knows maybe they can help him out.

    2. Batshua*

      Could he go with a mix of volunteer work (to show he’s doing something) and getting some therapy? It sounds like he has enough concerns that his fear needs to be handled before he can really think about getting a job, but if he was volunteering, he’d at least be doing something so that when folks interview him, he can say he was doing stuff.

    3. neverjaunty*

      This is not a work problem, this is a husband problem. It sounds like he may have anxiety and admiring issues he needs to work on with a good therapist, and he definitely needs to pull his head out of his butt about his failure to understand “I am tired because I worked all day”.

      1. CR*

        +1

        He needs to get over himself and get some help. Not working for a YEAR is childish and unacceptable.

        1. ThatGirl*

          I would caution that being unemployed while actively looking for a job for a year (esp. in a recession) is not childish or unacceptable – but not looking for a job at all might be.

          1. CR*

            I’ve been out of work before – I agree that’s not childish. Childish is being a married man in his late 30s who is too scared to look for work, or work for someone who’s not mom and dad.

          1. neverjaunty*

            Seriously. It could be that he is immature. It could also be that he has genuine issues that can be resolved with professional help.

    4. Delphine*

      Therapy! This is something he needs to talk about with a professional, and soon. His anxiety is real, but he’s anxious about things that you can’t predict or change, and getting hung up on them to the point of paralysis isn’t helpful. Working through that anxiety is step one, and it’ll hopefully allow him to get past these hold ups and start searching.

    5. Alice*

      You know when you really have to save every nickel and dime?

      When you’re not working at all.

      OK, seriously, this sounds like a complex issue — not a lot of local opportunities, experience that may or may not translate well, and maybe anxiety as other have suggested. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        OP, you can say that in the unusual case that an employer does lay him off then he will just go look for another job. That is what all of us are doing.
        Maybe you can get him a copy of Alison’s book and/or encourage him to read here.

    6. Princess Carolyn*

      Oof, that’s tough. My husband has also had some unemployment issues in the past and has really low confidence. It’s not exactly the same situation, but I’ve definitely had those days where I come home exhausted from work and have no patience for him being afraid to try.

      Is counseling at option for y’all? His anxiety surrounding work may not be something he can solve without professional help. I might also suggest trying to get him to take some baby steps toward employment, if that’s possible. Can he work the front desk at a different hotel? Can he work part-time?

    7. Natalie*

      I agree this sounds like he is struggling at a level that is above your pay grade. If counseling is an option for him that would be the best.

      I have a couple of thoughts/questions for you, from a similar position (my husband is not “career oriented” and is currently not working. He probably won’t be working full time again until next summer due to some health & school stuff.)

      The first thing I would do is check in with yourself, and be realistic. How do you feel about this, generally? Aside from the logistics (money, chores) does it bother you on some fundamental level that he doesn’t have a job, or could you be okay with a SAH spouse? How many more months or years do you think you can stand things if they stay exactly the way they are now? Can you communicate these thoughts to your spouse and have a reasonable exchange of feelings or does he shut down or get defensive? Is there someone outside of your marriage that you can talk to about this, that’s good at being a sympathetic ear without gossiping or dictating to you what to do? (At some points during my husband’s struggles with his career I was spiraling about the possible outcomes, but he wasn’t a good audience for those feelings unless I wanted him to be even more anxious. That’s not to say I never told him, just that we had one conversation where I expressed some fears and then if they cropped up later I vented them to someone else.)

      Secondly, if you two haven’t done this already you should figure out how to make things easier assuming this will be a long term situation. IMO that means he needs to be taking on the bulk of household tasks if he isn’t already, and probably the bulk of whatever “belt tightening” labor needs to be done. I am a big fan of something I read on Captain Awkward about each partner getting a roughly equal amount of leisure time, because it takes all the various adult responsibilities into account, not just paying work. Also, you can’t be his sole outlet for his social energy. He needs to cultivate some relationships with other people so that when you’ve had a long day, he can call up Joe and do something with Joe instead.

    8. Observer*

      I’d say: Therapy for him, couples counseling for you and he takes over all house-keeping.

      His fear of getting a job is not due to not having worked a “normal” job. Let’s face it, he knows plenty of people who have NOT been fired from every job they’ve had with no warning. In fact, from what you say, you are one of those people! So, something else is going on, and a therapist is probably the best person to help him tackle this.

      You’re describing an fairly significant disconnect between the two of you. A good counselor could help you get a bit closer to the same page.

      Marriage is a partnership. When both of you are engaged in income generation for your family, then you also share the household work. But when one person is handling the entire burden of income, the other one should handle the household stuff, unless there is a specific reason not to.

    9. Nanook of the North*

      I’m sorry; that sounds miserable for both of you.

      Have the two of you sat down to talk about managing your budget (if he believes that “you have to save every nickel and dime you make and not spend money because you could get fired at any time” is helping you save every nickel and dime you make for the two of you?), and longer range the ramifications for you as a team if he doesn’t work? Is he managing the household while he’s not working – cleaning, groceries, meals, laundry, yard, etc etc? And, is getting fired worse than not working at all?

      Has he gone back to the hotel to see if they’re hiring? He knows the facility well, now that the new owners have had time to establish themselves they might be thrilled to have someone in who has a history there. Small towns are tough, and that’s an existing connection if he can be willing.

      Is there a volunteer organization in easy reach that you both support where you could volunteer together once or twice a month? It would be a way to get him out and feeling useful, and might provide a bridge for him to be willing to help there more often than you could be there too. He might meet more people, and lean on you a bit less for his social time, too.

      Would couples counseling be helpful? I’m guessing he thinks his fear is normal, so not something to take to individual therapy, but this is clearly impacting your relationship. Maybe look at plans as if he doesn’t change (doesn’t work, stays afraid, is frustrated that you’re not fresh and ready to play after a full day’s work, etc) and suggest some conversations about moving into your future together with an outside party.

      Good luck to both of you.

    10. Detective Amy Santiago*

      See if you can convince him to sign up with some temp agencies. It might be easier for him to get used to working for non-family in shorter assignments that have a clear start and end date.

  48. annamouse*

    I got in an argument with a friend yesterday about whether using the question: “which order do you wash your hair and body when you shower” as a way to test someone’s ability to gauge order of operations stuff in a job interview was a good idea. I found myself getting increasingly pissed off that he (a man in tech) didn’t see this as potentially fraught, embarrassing, and icky until I was nearly blue in the face from explaining. He eventually apologized and said he got it. Do you think this is as potentially gross as I do, or am I just super sensitive because of so much other sexist, ableist garbage lately?

    1. The Other Dawn*

      I don’t even get how it relates to order of operations, since it has absolutely nothing to do with tech. I would think a tech-related question would be the way to go. I don’t see it as icky, just stupid.

    2. JaneB*

      Yup, I agree with you that this is a really dodgy question – so much potential to upset, offend or just squick out a candidate…

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      Huh, what? This is an actual interview question? Even if it weren’t inappropriate, what useful information does it give you?!

      1. annamouse*

        i’m pretty sure he hadn’t used it yet, and won’t be using it, but he said it’s a way to judge how people think about what things need to come before others and why. I can even see it, like you won’t use conditioner before shampoo or whatnot. It just seemed like a dangerously bad thing to ask when there’s so many non-fraught ways to get at the same thing.

        1. Sadsack*

          It is just a stupid question and it’s going to have interviewees wondering what is up with this guy and your company. If he wants to ask questions like that they should relate to the actual work.

        2. Observer*

          He’s trying too hard to be cutesy and indirect. It’s a dumb and inappropriate question, quite aside from any possible sexism (or other ism.)

          The reality is that a question would never get him what he wants. I mean if I wash my hair first, then my toes then the rest of my body, what does that tell you? If it don’t mention my toes what does that tell you? If I wash my body first and then my hair what does that tell you? The answer to all three questions is absolutely NOTHING. Because in none of these cases does it make a difference to the over all issue (which is getting clean).

          The ONLY way that you are going to learn anything about “order of operations” in such a scenario is if you insist that people go to a gross level of detail. And even then, you might get more information about people’s hygiene than anyone wants and STILL not find out anything. I mean if I give you a break down that I wet my hair, then pour some shampoo, lather it up, rinse it out then put on conditioner, what are you going to find out? That I use conditioner and that I probably have the level of sequencing ability of a 5 year old who has taken a reasonable number of baths in their life. Again, that’s just not useful.

          You might want to point out to him that he’s likely to turn off good candidates who have other options. I mean, if someone asked me a question like that in an interview, I’d avoid that job unless I had no good options.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Putting TWO tasks into correct order is not particularly challenging because, uh, it’s just the two tasks.

            Now if it were ten tasks OR several emergencies running concurrently then that might be a more interesting question.

            Maybe your best counterpoint would be if he asks the question the applicant may think he is not very bright and they might get up and leave in the middle of the interview.

            As a woman, I would tell a male interviewer, “I am not going to discuss my hygiene habits with a stranger. However, I will give an example of how I would instruct a small child in learning how to bathe.” And grin to myself as I talk to him like he is a small child.

            1. annamouse*

              hahaha~!

              I am pretty sure my friend was just “thinking aloud” and would not have used the question, but it bugged me that it didn’t occur to him how uncomfortable asking about showering/hygiene could be given the power imbalance in a job interview.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                I am with you on this.
                Boy, I really hope he did not really think using it was a good idea.

    5. CR*

      I have to admit I’m curious about the answer even though it’s ridiculous (I wash body last to remove any shampoo/conditioner residue that can cause bacne).

    7. MechanicalPencil*

      At that point, I would not respond well in the interview and have no interest in working for the company. If you want to know order of operations, find a different question that’s actually related to the field.

    8. FDCA In Canada*

      What a pointless question on top of the inappropriate nature. Maybe they wash their hair first and then their body to wash off conditioner residue. Maybe they wash their body first and then their hair to give themselves time to rinse off the soap. Maybe they don’t shower at all, but exclusively take baths. I cannot imagine an interview where it would be appropriate to start discussing this!

    9. Becky*

      I am with you on this being on the inappropriate side and if the goal is to test people’s ability to gauge order of operations it isn’t a terribly good question. (There is no One Right Way to bathe…)

      Maybe prompt him with some other options for more appropriate questions that work better to achieve the goal?

      I don’t know, ask people how they make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and why they do it in that order or that way.

    10. Emily*

      If someone asked me this in an interview I would run screaming from that workplace. SO icky.

      You do not talk about things you do when you are naked in a job interview!

    11. Merida Ann*

      Whaaaat? That is so creepy! And such a useless and bizarre question, anyway! Even if it wasn’t about showering – let’s say he was asking whether you put your left or right shoe on first instead – what’s the “correct” answer? Does he just want them to *have* an answer without thinking about it? It’s not like he would know if they “messed up” and said right when they really put their left on first.

      But, yes, this is a majorly creepy thing to ask about. Nothing during an interview should be making you think about being undressed and in the shower. Nothing. What the heck?

      1. Argh!*

        You can ask a person the order of tasks involved in driving a car. That would give insight about whether they can order tasks, but won’t have a creepiness factor.

        In fact, there are probably a million questions better than that one! Yech!

        1. Nea*

          Or setting up a form of travel. Travel is great for order of priority, and you might get a little insight into the person’s character (what travel they like to do) without anyone going near the idea of “so tell me, little girl, what you do when you’re undressed and alone.”

    12. Argh!*

      This is a creepy question. Anything involving bodies is creepy. Some people just won’t or can’t understand another person’s point of view if it isn’t identical to their own. Just say “It’s wrong to talk about bodies in a work environment. Period.”

    13. SQL Coder Cat*

      No, this is totally inappropriate. Any discussion of activities where you would be naked, even in a non-sexual activity, have no place in the workplace- or worse, in an interview, where the person might feel they have to answer despite the inappropriateness!

    14. Emi.*

      I think it’s weird and rude, but I don’t think it’s as bad as all that. How is it sexist or ableist? If they were asking it to women in a “haha let’s think about you naked” way, that would be gross, but it doesn’t sound like they are. This does not rise above the level of “very uncomfortable” to me.

      1. Nea*

        There’s absolutely no way for a woman to hear that question and not also hear “haha let’s think about you naked.” Or for her to be waiting for it to be followed up with “It was just a joke!”

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I’m a woman and I didn’t hear that at all. I don’t think it’s a good question, but I don’t feel or understand the disgust.

        5. Woman*

          I’m a woman and if an interviewer asked me that question, I’d think he’s just trying to visualize me showering for his own sexual fantasies.

      2. Observer*

        I don’t especially think it’s sexist either. But it’s SUPER weird, completely rude and has a major creepiness factor because it crosses the line of private space – and gaslights into the bargain. I mean claiming that this is really a WORK question that’s better at getting at work related information than the million other questions you could ask it just mind boggling.

      3. Margali*

        Dumb question, and totally inappropriate for anyone to ask a candidate. If I didn’t walk right out of the interview, I would definitely withdraw myself from consideration afterward. No way do I want to work for someone who lets me know they are thinking about me in the shower.

      4. LCL*

        It will come across as pervy, even if that is not the intent. I am a woman who ignores a lot of stuff and frequently thinks people are being too sensitive and has said so. This question wouldn’t frighten me, but I would think the questioner was a POS and it would probably derail the interview.

      5. annamouse*

        It’s ableist because what if the person doesn’t have hair (or is wearing a wig because of chemo or allopecia), what if they shower weirdly because of a hidden health problem (like a stoma), stuff like that shouldn’t be a part of a job interview.

    15. Nea*

      No, it’s gross. If I was asked that out of the blue, especially by a guy, my automatic answer would be “I am not going to answer a question about what I do when I’m naked. I must have massively misread the job description if this has anything to do with the work.”

      There was a time once when my credit card was trying to offer a new feature, but they had to offer it only to adults. Couldn’t tell you how many conversations started and ended with “Are you 18?” “That is massively creepy and I am not going to talk to anyone who starts a conversation that way.” *hangup* One of them finally went off script and started with “I am calling from [company] and…” and I told him to give an earful to the people who didn’t write the sales script to start that way.

    16. Anonymous Poster*

      I don’t understand what useful information that could get you about ordering operations in an operational environment.

      Why don’t you just present a scenario you all encounter on a somewhat regular basis and have the candidate talk you through that? It gives you good, directly applicable information instead of some weird tea-reading time where you can over analyze why does this candidate wash their hair first, is it because of silly reason 1, 2, or 3…

    17. Nanook of the North*

      One does not discuss one’s body parts, especially “private parts” at work. Full stop.
      You are not being super sensitive.

    18. HannahS*

      That is disgustingly creepy. If I was in an interview and a man asked my that I’d be 100% sure that he was a total creep trying to picture me naked. I’m just…it’s just unbelievable.

      Also, on a less this-is-so-sexist-wtf note, the order depends on your hair type, your skin type, what kinds of products you use, and your washing methods. What kind of expert does he think he is, that he knows how a person should wash their hair?

    20. LCL*

      God, I missed the most important point of your post. You kept after him until he actually got it and apologized. Way to go!

  49. Cruciatus*

    My large employer is switching from Highmark Blue Shield to Aetna and CVS Caremark. I’ve always had Highmark insurance so I don’t really know anything different but so far has seemed fine for me. Does anyone have only delightful things to say about Aetna or CVS Caremark? I’m hoping this change won’t be a big deal but am interested in anyone’s stories (good or bad) about using Aetna or differences you’ve experienced if your employer switched from one to the other.

    1. Batshua*

      CVS Caremark handles my medication (I have FEP Blue for insurance), and it’s pretty good! Mail order meds are $15 for the cheap ones and $80 for the expensive ones (90 day supplies). For anything REALLY cheap (generic thyroid hormone, for example), I go to my local pharmacy instead and it gets covered by FEP Blue for usually less than $1. I’ve never had Aetna, so I can’t say anything about them.

    2. CM*

      We had Aetna, now we have Blue Cross Blue Shield, I have noticed very little difference other than copay amounts and slightly different things being covered on each plan.

    3. fposte*

      I’m too new to Aetna to comment, but I’ve had *excellent* experiences with Caremark. Not in, like, talking to them, because I’ve never had to, but wow, do they cover my prescriptions.

      1. fposte*

        It sounds like I may have a different arrangement than Batshua upthread–I always go to my local pharmacy, but it’s Caremark, not Aetna, that covers my prescriptions there.

  50. Manders*

    Question: when is is appropriate to volunteer a skill you’ve developed professionally to help out a club you’re a part of?

    I’ve been practicing with a karate club that meets at a community center. The guy who runs it has mentioned several times that the club used to be a lot larger, and he’s disappointed that so few people are interested in karate now. I’m pretty sure I know the reason behind the drop-off in new members, though: the club has no web presence at all, and the community center that runs it hasn’t really made any effort at all to make sure it shows up on “karate in City” web searches. I only heard about it because my partner knew the local parks & rec website well enough to go searching through their very badly-made page to find class information.

    When would it be appropriate to offer to make the class a webpage, add it to Google Maps, etc? It really wouldn’t take much time at all, and I wouldn’t want money in exchange, but I definitely should get permission before going ahead.

    1. Amber Rose*

      Any time is fine, probably. I think I’d only been part of my martial arts club for a couple weeks when I ended up running our online marketing. It started with a simple Craigslist ad (which still pulls most of our new members) and moved on to flyers and stuff. We do a lot of volunteering as well, doing demos for local community events and stuff. Something to consider. Especially since doing stuff in front of a crowd is good experience for students.

      I mean yeah, ask first. Maybe the dude running it will want to look at stuff before it goes live. But it’s not like I had any particular training to do this stuff so I don’t see why you couldn’t at least offer your real skills.

      1. Manders*

        Thanks! Some of what I would do involves setting up accounts for a website and Google properties that would be tied to an email address, so I’d want to make sure the sensei not only knows what’s going on but has access to everything that belongs to the club. I’ll suggest it the next time he brings up the decline in membership.

        The neighborhood it’s in isn’t very flyer-friendly, but Craigslist is a good idea. Demos might be harder to put together but I’ll see what I can suggest.

        1. Amber Rose*

          Demos are hard to put together. We plan them a year in advance. Bringing stuff like that up would definitely be a long term planning kind of suggestion, if your sensei is open to that kind of thing. Craigslist and simple website are a good, easy start. :D

          Also, does karate have a governing organization? Our club is sort of part of the Canadian Kendo Federation (we’re almost but not quite entirely unlike kendo), and they send out emails and stuff on our behalf letting people around the country know when we have events, and we’re listed on their website.

          1. Manders*

            Oh hey, I used to do kendo! If you’re from BC, we might have some acquaintances in common–I was in the PNW federation and met some Canadians at tournaments.

            There are various karate federations, but this is an unusual Okinawan style and I’m pretty sure that most of the high-ranking folks aren’t in America. I’m used to having everything controlled by a board like the local kendo federation, everything is so much more laid back in this club that I’m unsure about etiquette.

            1. Amber Rose*

              I’m an Albertan. We don’t do kendo, but two of the 5-ish arts we do are governed by the CKF. Which is why I asked about organizations, since even though we don’t really have anything to do with kendo and almost nobody practices our arts, the CKF still kind of runs things.

              We have relatively close ties with local aikido and western sword art clubs, and numbers are down all over. Probably due partly to the economy. We’d tossed around the idea of organizing our own martial arts convention of sorts for all the different groups, but the effort involved is sort of intimidating.

              1. Manders*

                I was just talking about this with my husband, actually–we both started doing kendo around the time it was having something of a moment in American and Japanese TV and movies, and I think a lot of sword arts are suffering from the fact that media attention has died down.

                MMA is also totally dominating the market now–those clubs are often actual businesses, so they have way more time and money to throw at marketing. My city even started taxing all martial arts-related businesses at a higher rate, even the really obscure ones like historical fencing groups, just to make more money off of MMA.

                I work in marketing, so this has been on my mind lately. My friends who still do kendo have been working hard to keep clubs running at local colleges and community centers, but you’re right, numbers are down all over the place.

    2. volunteer coordinator in NoVA*

      I think if he mentions it again, it’s a good time to offer wanting to volunteer to help. I would recommend sitting down with him, offering up some solutions that you’ve thought of and figuring out what makes the most sense. He may not feel comfortable with certain platforms so it’s good to make sure you are both on the same page. I would be mindful of how much time you want to invest upfront and then for maintenance and communicate that so you don’t feel taken advantage of and he feels like he’s getting his needs met. You’ll also want to make sure to have a way to track all the things you set up as there is nothing worse than having to try and figure out original emails and passwords when a volunteer leaves.

      1. Manders*

        Good idea. I was going to suggest WordPress since it’s cheap and it’s what I’m used to, but I know a lot of people find it frustrating. I’m also hoping to be practicing for a while, but there’s a chance I might leave the country for a year or two in the future, so I definitely want to make sure I’m not setting up a page that will end up inaccessible with the wrong information on it.

  51. Allypopx*

    I gave my notice! It’s a long notice period, but I’m leaving in December so I can start school full time in the spring. My boss took it really well and he’s excited for me. I’m telling my reports and some choice colleagues today, as the transition will be in the planning stages soon.

    I’m relieved/excited/terrified. I’ve been here five years. I feel like so many possibilities are open to me now.

  52. TV Researcher*

    I originally wrote this for an open thread a few weeks ago, and though it was posted rather late in the day, I got some good advice. Unfortunately, I’m still finding work rather difficult so I’m reposting with some edits for more good advice. I hope that’s okay.

    This has been an incredibly difficult few weeks at work. One of my co-workers/legit outside of work friend passed away last month at the way too early age of 35. She’d been fighting cancer for two years and while her prognosis was never good, her passing happened quite suddenly.

    To make matters slightly worse, I’m also battling cancer, though I have a much more positive prognosis. After going on leave for 5 weeks after major surgery, I’m now in treatment which for me means chemo week (where I work from home aside from chemo day) and then I’m back in the office for two weeks before chemo week happens again (though at slightly shorter hours – think 9-4:30/5 instead of 8:30-6 (or often times 7). And interspersed with that is radiation, though that generally just means that I miss a few hours in the morning. This will be my life until mid-October.

    My problem is that even on my better days, concentrating on work was incredibly difficult and since my friend’s passing, it’s even more difficult (her now empty office is across from mine). And I’m not sure how to fix it, aside from time. But, in the meantime, work still has to get done. The other issue is that at 4pm, it’s like a fog comes down over me and makes cognitive thinking more difficult, so everything takes more time. Again, not anyone’s fault, it is what it is.

    I should also add that work has been great in letting me a) work from home (something that’s generally frowned upon) during chemo weeks and b) work those slightly modified hours, though those hours seem to be stretching themselves, so most of this week I’ve been leaving after 7pm, which is not supposed to happen. And it’s not just me who is working a lot, as the department is stretched rather thin, but I’m the only one who has to deal with the constant exhaustion, which is not my office’s fault, but still a fact of life.

    2. fposte*

      Wow, that is a tough patch; I’m sorry for your loss. I don’t think this is a situation where there’s something to fix–it’s about accepting that you won’t do be able to do what you want to at work and that’s okay.

    3. Soupspoon McGee*

      If you can, ask for reduced hours, say 30/week instead of 40, or whatever you can manage. If you’re in the US, FMLA and your state’s version of MLA may apply, so your doctor can certify the maximum workload allowable for you.

      Keep in mind that if your department is stretched thin, it’s a workload issue. It’s not YOUR fault that there isn’t enough coverage, and it’s not your responsibility to wear yourself out trying to fix it. Take care of yourself so you can heal and do the best job you can in a reasonable amount of time.

    5. Fact & Fiction*

      First, please be gentle with yourself. Both from a grief standpoint and a your-body-is-in-warrior-mode-to-kick-cancer’s-ass standpoint. This means you should engage in a lot of self-care and you may need to employ some strategies you normally wouldn’t to make the most of your time at work. I second taking full advantage of any FMLA or ADA accommodations you require. If your office is undestsffed, that is not your problem and they need to get it together. You probably need extra rest right now so make sure they let you get it. Staying till 7 on a regular basis right now seems unacceptable to me.

      Use checklists and task lists if you don’t already. Try breaking larger tasks up into small groups of tasks and rewarding yourself with a short break each time you complete a group. Do not hesitate to ask friends/family to help make your life easier with non-work things when possible. Think how much you would be willing to help others if roles were reversed and don’t feel guilty!

      My family lost several close relatives each year for several years so I know how tough it can be to function at work during such times. Do take care of yourself! You deserve as much time to grieve and heal as you need, so don’t feel bad if you have to let some things in your life slide for a bit.

      Oh! One more tip. Schedule your more difficult tasks for earlier in the day and reserve easier items you can autopilot through for when your brain fog kicks in. Best wishes!

  53. Amber Rose*

    Construction to move all the doors three feet left has completed (and screwed me up, I keep walking into door frames). Now they want to pull the cubes out and rotate them, which I’m all for, but the walls are not that easy to move and I’d have to disconnect my computer and everything while this is being done. Probably a day to a day and a half of work. I’m not sure what I will be able to do in that time. I’d offer to help but my boss doesn’t even let me carry light boxes around without a cart. What do office workers do without any office stuff to work with?

    As a silly aside, I was nervous about coming back to work this week because I dyed my hair violet, but aside from one comment on how I look good with purple hair, nobody has even seemed to notice. Hint hint nudge nudge to all the workplaces that don’t allow alternative hair colors.

    1. Annie Moose*

      Aw man, I love purple hair. At OldJob, which was significantly more uptight than NewJob, my grandboss dyed her hair dark brown with a purple tinge to it, so you could really only see the purple when the light caught it right. She looked so fabulous! I wish I was anywhere near brave enough to do it, although my mother would have a heart attack and die if she saw me. :P

      1. Amber Rose*

        It’s only temporary anyway. I was told it would last five or so washes, so a week or two at most. It’s fun to look a little different.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      It’s amazing how much you get used to where something has Always Been. Until it isn’t. And I have no idea what to suggest — can you set up in a conference room temporarily?

      I SO want to change my hair color to something alternative. But everyone here is quite conservative. I’m tempted to regardless, consequences being whatever they are. I’m generally hiding in my cube anyway.

      1. Amber Rose*

        I might be able to scrounge up an old laptop and take over the training room for a bit. But I’d be losing most of my programs. *sigh*

        I mean, it doesn’t hurt to ask about the hair thing. My husband works for the government at a hospital (super conservative environment), and when he asked if he could dye his hair blue he was told it was fine. Worse comes to worse, Head and Shoulders strips dye right out of hair like whoah.

        1. kitryan*

          That’s good to know about Head and Shoulders. My hair’s the longest it’s been for a while now, so I bleached most of the bottom 4 inches and overdyed it bright (non natural) red (the rest is still dark brown). The goal was to have the color kind of thread through the middle third and then dominate the lower third of the hair.
          If I twist it up in a clip then the red bit is mostly hidden, so I did that for the first few days to kind of dip my toes in the water.
          I didn’t know how it would go over, but one of the senior folks has a blue underlayer of hair and I figured I’d just cut most of the dyed section off if it turned out to be a problem, since I’m going to cut off at least 3 inches this year at some point.
          But no one’s given me any grief about it yet- and I love it! It makes me feel like a college kid again.
          Biggest surprise was that my parents kind of liked it!

  54. ScoutFinch*

    I live and work in a state that has no state income tax.

    If I were to take a job working remotely for an organization that operates solely in a state (probably NC) that DOES have a state income tax, will I be paying state income tax?

    TIA for any feedback. I know it may not be a simple answer.

    2. Emi.*

      I was a State A resident and earned money while I was at school in State B, and I had to pay taxes in both states (although A subtracted the amount I’d paid B from the amount I owed them). But I think it depends on the individual states.

    3. Joshua*

      I would talk with a tax professional about the particular job and state before accepting any job if you’re concerned about income taxes. But, if you search on Google for “non resident tax North Carolina” you can find that North Carolina considers anyone residing in another state and earning income from North Carolina sources a “nonresident,” and that nonresidents are subject to tax on any income earned from North Carolina sources.

      I’m not an expert though, so I would recommend talking with one.

      1. KR*

        Massachusetts does a similar thing, father in law lives in NH but works in MA. He has to pay MA taxes on his income.

    5. Otter box*

      I said this in an earlier thread too, but basically it varies. I don’t know about NC, but if you live in WA (no income tax) and work in OR (yes income tax), you pay OR taxes despite being a non-resident.

  55. sheila*

    So I just wanted to say… I read a comment here a few days ago that suggested squeezing your butt as hard as possible as a way to stop oncoming tears at work. I’m not going into details as to why, but I just had an opportunity to try it out and holy crap, it worked!

    My other go-to is to look up with your eyes towards the ceiling and rapidly blink. Anyone else have tricks?

    1. k.k*

      I’m an easy crier. Rapid blinking is my best way to stop the tears, and then the old “there’s something in my eye” trick works great to cover for any that made their way out. Works well together because if someone noticed you blinking a lot it gives a reason.

    2. CR*

      I will absolutely try this. I cry easily especially when I’m frustrated which is happening a lot at work lately, and is really embarrassing.

    3. FDCA In Canada*

      Mental math works. Going through the times tables or trying to multiply two large numbers together or long divide them will distract your brain enough to relax for a minute and stop the tears.

    4. Amber Rose*

      YMMV, but tuck your thumb into your palm and squeeze. I use to control nausea mostly, but it actually works with any strong desire my body has to do something.

      I also picture kittens in my head. I find if I think of something funny or cute, the urge to cry fades a lot. Which is good, because I’m a faucet. The waterworks go on for every little thing with me.

    5. Delphine*

      This is a weird question, but as an easy crier…do you mean pinching your own butt, or clenching?

      1. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

        I had the same question, but I’m going to assume clenching the muscles rather than grabbing your cheeks and pinching (which, for comedic visual sake, might stop tears right there!).

      2. Gwen Stefani-Shelton*

        I thought the same thing – “How can you squeeze your butt without anyone noticing??” Clenching it makes a lot more sense.

    6. jmm*

      Sipping a drink. I had to interact with someone I care about for the last time recently, was feeling super emotional, and this worked like a charm.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Squishing my big toe down REALLY hard in my shoe helps. It also helped when I was nervous before any kind of presentation or a figure skating performance. I mean, pushing it down until it hurts. But YMMV–sometimes that can set you off.

  56. dreams for plans*

    How do you find networking events? I’m applying to jobs (I’ve applied to over 130) and I’ve had about 10 interviews. I’ve reached out to recruiters on LinkedIn but, as I’ve been freelancing for 4 years and recently moved, I think I need to build my “people who actually have met me” network.

    How do you network? Any tips/advice appreciated!

    1. KMB213*

      Your local chamber of commerce is a good place to start! They often hold events that are open to non-members.

      If you’re under 40, many cities have a lot of young professional networking groups/opportunities. Some are more effective than others, as you’ll likely be meeting a lot of other people who are looking for work or at the beginning of their careers, but I’ve been in some that had a decent number of mid-career professionals in the 35-40 age range. (I just Googled “City Name Young Professionals” to find said groups.)

      I’ve tried MeetUp, as well, but didn’t have any luck. The professional meetups seem to be flooded with people involved with MLM companies, but YMMV.

  57. Rincat*

    I’m a little bummed today because I found out my top bosses (I work in the IT division of a large state university) have decided not to reopen our BI analyst position. I vacated this position when I got promoted recently, so I’m thrilled to have the promotion, but disappointed because 1) I’ll have to keep doing BI analyst stuff until we can get it reopened and 2) One of my former coworkers in another dept was really excited about applying for it. I think she’d be great, and I’ve already recommended her to my bosses, and she’s desperate to get out of her current position. So now I will have to disappoint her as well with this news at some point.

    We both knew this could happen but it just sucks. Maybe next year they can get it reopened. Their reasons for doing so are legit, so I’m not mad about that or anything, but it just sucks. I am thankful that I got my promotion though.

  58. SuperAnon*

    While I was out on leave, there were a few incidents with an area that I manage. I’ll just say that it’s a competitive process. As a result, people have been paying more attention, and we’ve been tweaking the process. Ultimately a good thing. The topic area was an agenda item for one of the monthly advisory boards. My boss and I went over the tweaks, which people seemed fine with, but then they started complaining about all of this other stuff. The main complaint was the lack of transparency about how the process works, which is easily fixed, but apparently there’s the perception that there’s favoritism in the process, which makes people reluctant to take part.

    …and there is. Not every time and not in the way that they think, but there totally is. I’ve seen it. Sometimes there’s not a clear winner, so they (my boss or above, I have no say in the decision) will just pick who they like. Sometimes there is a clear winner and they will still pick who they like. Sometimes the winner has been chosen before the competition even takes place (which I hate more than anything, not just because it’s unethical, but because I’m doing a bunch of work for no reason). I know that there’s definitely some wiggle room, and those in charge should get some say in how the organization uses its resources, but it’s made me uncomfortable for a while. We’re having another meeting to discuss this, so how do I navigate this and allay people’s fears when they’re partially true?

  59. Lost in Webform Design*

    I have a question for any IT people or “near IT” people here: I’m a customer service manager in a small financial services company. Our customers mostly interact with us online, on platforms that either we ourselves have designed and coded or which have been built for us by former contractors. In recent years, one of my tasks has been to design and test new forms and webpages for the customers to use as well as redesigning existing ones as needed.

    We have a great team doing this: Joey writes the code for the customer facing pages, Chandler writes the code for the internal databases that handle the data the customers put in, I do most of the designing, writing, and testing, and Rachel manages us all and does some testing as well. Although we all get along really well, we often have communication problems, with some of us having understood the plans differently from the others and work being wasted when a lot of code has to be rewritten. This is very frustrating! We are also often under a lot of time pressure from other tasks or from changes in the regulatory framework which force us to change our forms and webpages quickly.

    I want to learn to be more systematic in the designing of these projects and be able to communicate the plans more clearly, so that we have fewer misunderstandings and are more efficient as a team. Last year I did a short course on service design that inspired me to make mock ups of the plans, which Joey and Chandler did find useful. I’d love to read a book or do a course that could help me become better at what I do, if only I knew what it’s actually called! Courses I’ve looked up on Coursera or local open universities (I’m in Europe) seem to deal more with either managing big IT projects, rather than small, partly overlapping and iterative projects like ours, or on the actual coding side, which isn’t what I need to learn. Joey and Chandler also can’t really name what my role is, or suggest further reading.

    Any ideas from the commentariat?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Maybe you need some project management software? Or just a better communication platform (something like Slack)?

    2. Tableau Wizard*

      Have you looked into the Agile method for software development? I’m not an expert or a coder, but my understanding is that it would help with things like this.

    3. PieInTheBlueSky*

      Sounds like you wear multiple hats…here’s a few roles you could look up and see how they fit you:
      UI/UX Designer (User Interface / User Experience)
      Content Developer
      Web Portal Administrator
      Technical Writer
      Project Management
      QA

    4. Becky*

      I work as a quality assurance analyst which sounds like it would cover at least some of what you do.

      Generally on my team it is the project managers who create mockups and set criteria for new features/changes to our software. I usually review those criteria and ask questions about things they may have missed or scenarios they hadn’t thought of etc. I spend more time in our applications than they do and know how our clients use it and what customizations they have that may interact with the changes better than they do.

      I also work very closely with the developers as they do the coding–answering any questions they have about how something is supposed to act. Once it is on our Test environment (we have a DTAP setup for our environments) I test it and log any defects for the developers to fix.

      There will always be miscommunication but it might help if you create a standard list of questions to ask and things to test.

      Also, mockups are a great place to start, but not usually comprehensive.
      I don’t know what type of product you work on but here is an example:
      You are adding a new field to a page for clients to answer.
      The mockup can show where in the page the field displays and what the styling looks like and perhaps what type of field it is (dropdown, text field, radio button, checkbox, etc)
      But further acceptance criteria ought to be included:
      *When this field is filled in what is done with the information? What field does is correspond to in the database? How is this information used? Does it trigger something else in the application to happen?
      *If it is a dropdown what are all the options in the dropdown?
      *If it is a text field are there any restrictions on it? For example is it numbers only or letters only, or alphanumeric with or without special characters? Is there a specific length of characters you can enter? (eg a field asking for a quantity will only accept numbers and possibly be limited to 2 or 3 digits)
      *Does this field always display for the clients or is it triggered by something the client does in another field or does it display based on a setting in a client profile (eg the field only displays if the client address is in X country)
      *If the field is not filled in does it trigger any sort of error? what is the text of the error?
      *How should something work if this field is not filled in–this is particularly looking at backwards compatibility, so a new field which has never been filled in for previous orders should not break previous orders.

      For more information look for things like “writing user stories” or “creating effective acceptance criteria”.

      These terms are used in agile development so check out some courses on agile processes if you can. It may not be directly applicable if you don’t follow agile methods, but anything around creating user stories and acceptance criteria should get you going in the right direction.

    6. Apollo Warbucks*

      Information Technology Infrastructure Library (ITIL) is best practice IT service management and covers service strategy and design as well as change management, support and continual service improvement.

      There a few project management and process improvement methodologies you might be able to look into to see what would work best for you.

      Agile / Waterfall / Prince 2 / Six sigma / lean

  60. NaoNao*

    Reassure me people!
    My boss and team are great. I love the work I do, but I’ve been struggling with what I call ‘senioritis’ lately. I seem to have lost my get up and go and am making small mistakes at work, which I’m always able to correct or make up for before they get noticed or affect anyone else. Stuff like forwarding emails or checking on stuff a day or two later than I said I would, etc. Somewhat routine for any office.

    My boss is on PTO and our team had an in person round table scheduled with a big kahnua type yesterday. I misread the invite and assumed it was a large all hands town hall that I could attend remotely, and since I was fighting a cold, worked from home. Well…it wasn’t.

    I sent my boss a note saying that I was very sorry to have missed the roundtable and saying I would make more careful notes in my calendar about which meetings I can do remotely and which not, so I think that’s covered, but my bigger question….

    It’s not burnout. It’s a creeping lack of focus and malaise. I dug around in my own mind and have identified that the effort of not thinking about the Dumpster Fire that current events is right now is taking almost all my available energy, and I’m looking into doing some activist stuff to help me sort that out, but in the meantime…

    How do you stay focused at work (especially when you manage a lot of your own time and projects) when it seems like everything else is more important?

    I really like my work and don’t want to slide into a PIP and/or lose the job!

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      Talk to a therapist. You have identified a specific need (focus at work) and a therapist will be able to help you with that. It doesn’t sound like you have any mental illnesses or anything, but a therapist can definitely help you work on some skills or techniques to improve your focus at work.

    2. KR*

      I know you said your boss is on PTO but something that helped me was telling my boss what was happening. He gave me a pep talk and helped me identify priorities. May not be helpful, but can you ask your manager for a one on one when he comes back?

    3. R2D2*

      I often struggle with this, too! Here are some things I do when I feel bored, lazy, unmotivated, depressed, etc.
      – Stand up and stretch.
      – Chat with a friendly coworker.
      – Take a walk to get some coffee (the exercise and caffeine are often the boost I need).
      – Tackle one item on my to-do list which I’ve been putting off.
      – Straighten up my desk.
      – Ask my boss or coworkers if there’s anything I can help them with.
      – Decide to work on an onerous project for 30 minutes without stopping, then actually do it.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      With my own personal dumpster fires, I have told myself that I needed to be careful.

      It could be that the fire gets resolved, but because I was lax/in despair/etc my own personal life could be a shambles. All that effort was for nothing and I ruined what I did actually have because I failed to foresee a time where these things that are in place could resume being of value to me.

      Same idea, different phrasing: Don’t lose what you have now because you are so consumed by what might happen tomorrow.

      I can give a small example. When my husband passed, I suddenly did not have health insurance. Honestly, between losing my hubby and other sadnesses at that time I did not give a crap that I had no insurance. Who cares, I thought. And the answer came to me: “I will care in ten years. I will be very angry with myself for not following up on this problem.”
      I figured out I could get health insurance through my late husband’s former employer. (loooong story) It took me about ten weeks of making phone calls daily. (Remember I did not give a crap and now I am forced to deal with Thing I Do Not Care About on a daily basis. It was an endurance contest of will power to stay focused and keep following up, I tell you.)
      I got the insurance. Fast forward, years later, it becomes mandatory to have health insurance. And I had health insurance. I almost cried.

      Punchline: What we do when the chips are down matters HUGELY. It can matter so much that it can dictate how our lives play out and the quality to the lives we have. It is in our own best interest to decide whenever life gets tough we are going to arise to the occasion and we are going to take care of our own personal long term interests and necessities. When people were worried about the world ending on January 1, 2000, I said, “Will you be prepared if it does NOT end?” This is more of that.

  61. AnonToday*

    I just need to vent – I’ve been looking for a new job in a different city since February, and while I’ve had some good phone interviews, I haven’t been able to get an in-person interview yet. I had a great interview with a recruiter for a role that a friend recommended me for…and the recruiter ghosted me.

    At the same time, my current job is getting worse day by day. My manager has been tearing me down, because I don’t work in his same style. I’ve begged for some structure & documented job responsibilities, and his response was that I should walk around and find other people’s projects to insert myself into (he called this “being curious”). He and his peer successfully ran off another teammate, who resigned rather than continue to be subjected to their bullying. I don’t have that luxury, though I did briefly consider how much I could make by driving Uber while I look for a new job.

    I just feel so defeated, and I now dread looking for jobs. It feels like my current company has sucked all the talent out of me, and my career self-esteem is so low. I think no one will hire me cause I don’t have good enough accomplishments, and I havent’ been promoted in five years. I feel like I’ll be forever stuck here until they run me off like they did my coworker.

    Please tell me this is going to get better.

    1. k.k*

      I’ve been in a similar spot (been job hunting a while, at the end of my rope at the current place). I’ve adopted an “I give zero f-‘s about this place” attitude. I still get my job done and externally respond politely and professionally to things, but my internal monologue has really changed. When criticized I nod and agree that I’ll work on that/change/whatever, but in my head I know that that’s not going to happen, and it doesn’t matter because I don’t care and soon I won’t be here. I can’t take it personally, because I don’t care what that person thinks.

      Now I wouldn’t say this is a good attitude to have at work, but it’s been keeping me from losing it until I can find something else.

    2. Nanook of the North*

      It’s going to get better. Not at this job, probably, but it will get better.
      What are you doing for self care? Upgrade that a notch or two, be it diet, exercise, social stuff, volunteering. whatever suits you. Be appreciative of yourself, and spend time with others who appreciate you. Don’t give them your wellbeing. Feeling trapped builds on itself, so find your open spaces and take care of yourself while you look.
      Good luck and keep us posted. We’re pulling for you.

  62. anycat*

    so i wrote in last week about talking to my boss about a position that opened up in our department – it would be a “lateral” move.. but a much more analytical role along with a pay raise and moving to exempt status. my boss gave me their blessing but ultimately told me i am too green and not a part of the culture here yet.

    however.. i spoke to the new potential manager yesterday and they told me that if i am seriously interested they will draw up a new comp package for me.

    this role will make more well rounded – imagine going from a vanilla teapot administrative person to a chocolate teapot analyst. the goal would be to one day move toward a teapot manager role.

    so.. what would you do? i feel like i will kick myself one day for not doing it.. but my only worry is the fallout with my current manager.

    1. Morning Glory*

      It depends on how often these come up, and how segregated admin staff are from other positions.

      In my org, this would be a huge opportunity, because administrative staff do not move up ever, but low-level positions on the program side (equivalent I think to your analyst) do get to move up. So I would personally do it without hesitating in my own set of circumstances, but also know that not every organization is the same that way.

      1. anycat*

        i would still be able to do some vanilla stuff, but it would have a bit more of an analytical take on it. it would also be a lot more exposure to our C levels and employees. pretty much everyone thinks it’s a huge opportunity for me and i should do it.

        vanilla teapot admins are easy to find… but from what i gather chocolate teapot analysts aren’t.

    3. yeller*

      You should go for it. Your boss gave you her blessing, and I would take her comment about being too green as just trying to help you manage expectations. That’s fine – but the situation has exceeded those expectations, so go for it!

    4. Beckie*

      This sounds like a huge opportunity — and worth a few weeks of awkwardness with your current manager. (And if you’d still have to work with the current manager moving forward, there should be motivation on both sides to keep things professional.)

      1. anycat*

        thanks all. i guess i’m a little nervous about how they will react – they are very blunt and straightforward, but has made it very clear that i should do what is in my best interest. i will still be able to work with current manager, but will report to someone who has a bit more laid back managing style, which is what i’d like. i do enjoy my current manager, but they tend to play favorites and cross the boundaries of being a boss and try to be your friend.

  63. Mona Lisa*

    My college is “selling” me to another department, and I don’t like the price I’d be paying. Any advice would be appreciated! (I submitted this question to AAM earlier this week. Several factors have changed since then, and I basically only have the weekend to think about it at this point. Hopefully one of you can help!)

    I work in an academic college department at a large university Westeros U. WU is switching data systems to a platform I’ve used in the past, and after several informal meetings, the system managers have made it clear that they want to hire me for their newly created office. However, since this is a new administrative office, they are running into a significant amount of red tape with HR in creating the positions. My would-be manager Tyrion has been functioning in his current role since January and still has not received his new position title, and I’ve been hearing that “my” position has been stuck at HR since late June/early July.

    Tyrion is desperate for help as he is managing this large transition almost completely on his own. His provost approached my dean to see about “buying” my position from my college in order to get someone in to help Tyrion until the HR red tape is removed. Everyone on my side (dean, assistant dean, manager) is amenable to this situation, but I have a major concern. The starting salary of the new position is several pay grades above what I currently make, and it would be a switch from non-exempt to exempt, which at WU means five more PTO days are accrued during the year.

    They are buying out my current position as-is. I do not want to move to the new office for my current salary (it’s 30% lower than what I’d be making) and PTO accrual. I also feel like once the immediate pressure is off there will be less impetus to push the new job title through HR.

    The paperwork has already gone through (without consulting me or Tyrion first). As of this coming Monday, Tyrion’s office is paying for my position. I spoke with him today, and he’s hopeful my position will be through HR in the next couple of weeks. He’s also open to letting me work a reduced schedule to compensate for the fact that I wouldn’t be making my new salary for another 1-1.5 months while paying me my current full salary. He has proved to be open and forthright through this entire process so I trust him to follow through with this. However, he let me know that my options are basically accept the situation and wait it out or to turn down the special assignment, revert payment to my college, and probably not end up getting the new position as he would need to hire another temp with the intention of going permanent.

    I’m leaning towards taking the position right now because Tyrion’s office would also be paying for me to get a certification that would make it easier to pursue the career path I’ve been considering. However, I want a gut check to make sure that I’m not screwing myself over. Anyone been in a similar situation or have any advice on how I should proceed?

    Thank you in advance for any thoughts you can offer!

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      I think the fact that Tyrion is talking to you about a reduced schedule while your salary catches up, rather than thinking, “Woohoo! Cheap labor!” is a sign that he’d be a considerate boss.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        Yes, I think he’ll be good to work for. I helped develop the position, and when we initially talked about salary compensation, I gave a number I thought was fair and then for some reason tried to backtrack and say I’d be willing to go lower to get into the job. (I’m still trying to strengthen my negotiation muscles and my people-pleasing, self-devaluing tendencies.) He said, “Don’t ever sell yourself short. I’m going to try and get you the top of the range.” Tyrion seems like a good manager who values work-life balance and making sure people are treated fairly, which is another reason I’m even considering this proposition.

          1. Nanook of the North*

            Yes, this. Sounds like you trust him, and that he respects you – and will go to bat for you. Have a written agreement – transferring your role, agreement about salary, title, and category (exempt/non) on a timeline. If it doesn’t work out, you’ll be better positioned to move elsewhere after taking this job, right?

    2. Zahra*

      Can you agree conditionally? My aunt works at a uni and I know that people could go back to their old position within 3 months. Maybe you could agree to help with the transition for 3 months at your current salary, at which point you’d… do whatever’s acceptable as a plan B for you. Also, can HR give you the PTO accrual retroactively once the approval makes it through? I’m guessing the salary is out of the question, but if it isn’t, even better!

  64. TheCagedBird*

    So…I started a new job in April and my current boss will be leaving at the end of August. I knew that he was looking but I didn’t anticipate that he’d be leaving so soon. I’m quite frustrated with the circumstances because I took a pay cut to take this role and I was promised opportunities to grow and advance. With him leaving, now that just doesn’t seem so certain to me anymore because the higher ups don’t know me that well. Without his backing, it could take longer. I left my last job, which was very unfulfilling but stable, and now I’m really unsettled with this pending change.

    Also, I’ve never endured a manager change before and I’m really not looking forward to this because my current manager is super laid back with things (particularly with scheduling–I’m in grad school so I appreciate his flexibility on this.) I’m afraid the next manager won’t be as flexible.

    Anyone go though something similar? I’m sure I’m just in my feelings right now because this is pretty fresh still, but I can’t help but feel the way I do.

    1. Chaordic One*

      This is very unsettling to say the least and it is understandable that you feel anxious. Until your new manager is in place you really won’t know where you stand and exactly how to proceed. It certainly doesn’t hurt to update your resume and have it ready to go if you need to start looking for a new job. If there are any suitable openings it doesn’t hurt to apply for those now.

      However, if nothing happens on the job front, you can wait until you have a new supervisor. Hopefully, your new boss will be aware of your situation and will continue to be flexible and to accommodate your schedule, but you have to be prepared for other situations just in case. Hang in there and keep doing the best you can.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I have always felt that as an in-place employee, there are advantages to having a new manager. Some people tend to defer to the employee in-place, or they do initially at least. There are also opportunities to get some of your concerns addressed that the previous manager ignored or did not know how to remedy. When they first start their reliance on you may be quite heavy. This is an opportunity to show how competent and reliable you are. Use an attitude of service and you will gain a lot of ground which can carry you for a long time. (If you maintain that attitude of service.)

      I have found it helpful to remember the new boss is a human being also. Picture your jitters the first day and you will be able to guess how the new boss feels on the inside. Be kind. Be organized. Don’t kiss up. Be your professional, competent self.

  65. Jazzy Acorn*

    How much weight do you all place on Glassdoor reviews and general gut feeling when interviewing for a job?

    For context: I’m in the process of interviewing with a company that would look great on my resume (position and company name-wise), but has scathing recent reviews about disorganization, culture, stress, etc.. I’ve gotten some hints about that in my interactions so far–but I’ve also heard really good things about the company. Obviously it’s not guaranteed that I’ll even get an offer, but I’m curious what everyone thinks about online reviews in making your decisions.

    1. Althea*

      I’d use the info in the reviews to probe the issues when you meet with the company. If they’re saying the hours are long, then ask what the position’s hours are expected to be. Etc.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I take them fairly seriously, not in terms of whether they’re all true or all false, but even what gets discussed can tell you a lot about the office culture. For example, “great place—love the ping pong tables and happy hours” may be posted as a positive, but I’d read that as a negative. If you see half the reviews pointing to disorganization, I would take that fairly seriously, especially if each is immediately followed by a 5-star review that says there are no cons.

      In fact, I tend to take less seriously any review that is either “There are no cons” or “There are no pros.” Even in the most toxic work environments I’ve been in, there have been pros.

    3. Baby Put Herself in the Corner Office*

      I think the best thing to pay attention to here is your “general gut feeling” as you say, and the fact that you have noticed hints of disorganization in your own dealings with the office. The fact that your worries seem to be confirmed by reviews is definitely worth noting, too. I will say that I don’t pay a ton of attention to online reviews because, having waitresses for twelve years before I got my office job, I tended to see that the angriest customers were the ones who left reviews, and sometimes with exaggerations, and many of the people who were pleased never created a review. That said, if a lot of reviews tend to highlight the same issue and don’t seem overrun with hyperbole, I think they would at least be worth keeping in mind.

    4. Overeducated*

      I take gut feeling VERY seriously. It’s probably the ultimate deciding factor for me, I have turned down jobs that looked great on paper but just didn’t seem right or raised red flags about work life balance. (I do regret one or two decisions I made that way but most of them I stand behind.)

    5. MissDisplaced*

      I think it’s fairly normal to read a couple of negative reviews. You can’t please every employee that comes through the door and some I would take with a grain of salt.
      However, it is concerning if you spot an overall negative theme in MOST or many of the reviews. If nearly all of them talk about bad management or long hours/low pay, I would probe those areas in the interviews.

    6. Zip Zap*

      I look for patterns. Every place has a few ex-employees with an axe to grind, but if ten people complain about the same thing, it probably is an issue.

      I also take reviews that appear to be fake as a small red flag.

      And of course I trust my gut.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I look at the specifics.
      “The boss is an ass.”
      Well, that could be true, but maybe not.

      “The boss did not let me get paid for my overtime.”
      This one is more specific and catches my attention as a red flag.

      “Management is lazy.”
      Really? All of them? All at the same time? Noooo. Someone is doing something or the company would not function.

      “Management failed to fix the air conditioning for six weeks in 90 degree heat.”
      Okay. I am listening. What else is going on.

  66. Chinuck*

    I am just about to start a great new job. But I suffer from terrible insomnia. At my current job it is very low key and I can lay low any day I need to, but I’m concerned about the new job which seems to be much more involved and faster paced (which is one of the reasons I applied for it in the first place, I am bored to death where I am now). My fear of having a bad insomnia spell is hanging so heavy over me as I prepare to start. Does anyone have any suggestions? My insomnia is not due to a medical problem, I have tried sleeping pills and therapy, I have great sleep hygiene and have taken just about every piece of advice you can find. Sometimes a bad spell of just a couple hours of sleep a night can last up to 3 months. Over the years I have figured that the best thing to do is stay calm and just lay quietly in bed each night until I eventually fall asleep. But I am so worried about being unable to preform at the new job due to exhaustion. I don’t know if there is anything I can do to improve my sleep, but I am so worried about it effecting my new job. I am looking for ways to cope!

    1. Zzzzz*

      I started a new job in February as an incredibly sleep-deprived new mom. To stay sharp, I drank a cup of coffee while getting ready for work, then another when I got to the office! I tried not to complain about my exhaustion too much, but if it seemed appropriate, I would say something like, “Sorry, can you repeat those instructions? I’m still a little foggy after being up all night with the baby.” My coworkers have been very supportive and I’m performing well. My advice is to take copious notes while training and extend yourself some grace! Adjusting to a new job is taxing and takes time, even when you’re well-rested. Good luck!

    2. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      Oh my God, do I feel your pain! I have never been a good sleeper, and I’ve had sporadic insomnia for pretty much all my life. I had a stint of about 3 months where I was averaging about 3 hours of sleep per night. I was really nervous when I started my current out of the house job because I worked from home for about 10 years, but weirdly, once I made that switch, I have had only had 1 bout of bad insomnia, but my current doctor was OK with prescribing me Ambien (my old doctor absolutely refused to give me any kind of sleeping pills, and offered antidepressants instead) which I use on the very rare occasion I can’t sleep. So maybe the change in your work environment might help! If your mind is busier during the day, maybe it’ll be quieter at night. I also found an amazing therapist who does guided meditation and hypnotherapy with me to address the anxiety that I get when I can’t sleep, and I think that’s helped tremendously.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      From what I have read this is typical of people suffering from insomnia. And of course the worry makes the insomnia worse.
      I have gone through spells of 1-3 hours of sleep a night myself. What finally changed my life was taking control over my diet. Like you I laid in bed until it was time to get up. Keep doing that, that is a good choice.

      I had to work on my self-talk. I pictured a switch in my brain. At X time all thoughts about tomorrow had to shut off. I flicked the switch and declared a time out from worry. After X time was a no fly zone for negative thoughts.

      My problems stemmed from some thyroid issues and substantial vitamin and mineral losses. See, when we are stressed our bodies just burn through vitamins and minerals like crazy. And this makes the insomnia worse, which makes the stress worse. It’s like being on a merry-go-round and you can’t get off the ride.

      Last, take a look at how you process stress during your waking hours. There were times I was inconsolable about some matters. I had to work on being consolable. I had to find ways to help myself calm down and not worry so much.

  67. More anonymous than usual*

    I just found out that a couple of veteran employees in my office, including my boss, got 20 vacation days from the start, but newer employees (in all departments) get only 10 vacation days and need to work at the company for 15 years in order to get 20 vacation days. Kind of sad about that (not my boss getting more at the start but all of the newer employees getting such a paltry number).

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Yes, my company operates this way.
      If you were hired in as part of the “old company” the bene package was better. Most employees got 15 paid vacation days to start (or more if managers). But now the company is in a different place and I’ve seen in the employee manual that 10 paid days is standard for all new hires.

      It is also a matter of course, that our colleagues in Europe get 30-40 paid vacation days per year, which is required by law there, but of course not so in America.

      So. Not. Fair.

    2. fposte*

      That happens at my university with pensions and retirement rules. I think the general feeling is that it’s less worse to have people with different packages than to take promised packages away from people.

  68. Phantom Jobs Theory*

    Ever been contacted for a job only to be told it was cancelled or put on hold?
    Or you interviewed and never heard anything, but keep seeing the job posting?
    It was a ghost job. And I have a new theory.

    I think companies post lots of jobs merely to make the company look healthy and vibrant to Wall Street and Investors. Of course, no hiring manager would ever tell you this.

    And I am not talking about the obvious “scam” jobs, but real, legitimate companies who (should) have real jobs they want to fill.
    Sure, there ARE legitimate times when the job really was filled internally and they had to post it publicly, or budget cuts and finances changed last minute.
    But continued posting of mass amounts of jobs and using recruiters would get pretty expensive if this happened on a continued basis. Think about it, a company will often go to a lot of expense to make itself look good to investors. From building a fancy office or website, to creating a multimillion dollar advertising campaign. Why should posting ghost jobs be any different?

    1. fposte*

      Maybe, but not for a job they actually interviewed for. That’s too much work for optics of little value.

    2. o.b.*

      Yep, I’ve been interviewed for a job that was later put on hold indefinitely. (Then re-contacted 2 years later to ask if I wanted to interview for the same position again! Flattered but uninterested.)

      If company personnel are actually investing time and effort into hiring, I think the ‘posting ghost jobs for optics’ theory is probably missing the mark and it’s more likely they suddenly no longer have the budget, or hired someone internally, or any other more logical explanations.

      Also, fwiw, when I see tons of job posts by the same company and it’s not “we just opened a branch nearby!!” I assume they’ve had a lot of turnover—I’m not sure it does consistently help their image.

      1. Me--Blargh!*

        Same–I see the same postings over and over from the same companies, and they’re some of the same jobs I saw when I was looking in 2012. I figure the jobs just suck and people cycle out of them.

    3. I'm eating pretzel chips*

      Well, because posting lots of phantom jobs would not have the effect you are thinking it would. I’ve worked in recruitment as part of my HR career for over 12 years, and I have never seen a company do what you describe. Having phantom roles open would not make a company look vibrant – it makes it look unstable, like there’s tons of turnover or they are understaffed.

      That said, there are lots of reasons job postings come, go, or linger. Sometimes you are doing what’s called passive recruitment, meaning that you want to be having ongoing interviews and a bench of top candidates for when a certain role that’s hard to find or has high turnover becomes available. Sometimes you need a lot of a certain type of worker so you keep a posting open after hiring because you still need a candidate pool for the other headcount. Sometimes you are doing a PERM residency application for an employee and have to post the role for a certain period as part of that process. Sometimes the job really did get put on hold, or the timing of hiring someone changed out of necessity, or your budget got cut, or you need someone more senior/junior than originally thought because of X reasons.

    4. overeducated*

      It does make you wonder. I recently saw two jobs I interviewed for but didn’t get about a year ago reposted and wondered why – I had assumed they hired someone who wasn’t me, but if that’s the case, pretty quick turnover for a specialized position! (I actually reapplied to one of them with the exact same cover letter, since the hiring manager listed in the ad was different, and I think I was caught off guard in my earlier interview by getting a lot of questions about me as a person rather than my professional experience.)

    5. Woman of a Certain Age*

      I’ve been offered jobs after going through the interview process where I asked for a day to think things over, and then when I called back to accept the job I was told that the employer was not going to fill the position after all, that they were going in a different direction and going to reorganize their department (and probably redistribute the work among the current employees).

      I’m not sure if they were being honest with me or not. Sometimes I think they may have really been wanting to hire someone younger or not so obviously a minority. At least they did not readvertise the position. I guess I’ll never know for sure. It sucks.

  69. nerkie*

    I need some advice on how to handle a specific situation. The office I work in is super toxic and dysfunctional but I’ve managed to survive so far but have run across a situation that has happened a couple times and I never know how to react.
    Some background: I have never received any training for what I do for my employer. I’m told to make something happen and given a very vague “maybe call so&so?” starting point and then left to my own devices with no other directions or resources. Luckily, I’m a pretty good problem solver and am able to make it happen.
    My issue comes in when I am told to train someone else to take over or help with the duties assigned. I train them, give them all of the resources and notes I have so that they can succeed. My bosses then make a lot, and I mean A LOT, of side comments about how quickly the new person caught on, or how it obviously wasn’t that hard to learn how to do! The new person gets lots of praise for being so amazing and then because they are so awesome, I am told to give them all of the related work for the tasks I trained them in that were originally assigned to me. I am also told that I do not need to provide any further guidance or training because they have “caught on so quick!!”. I do as asked, the person ends up making a bunch of mistakes, is let go, and then all the work ends up back on my desk with my bosses shaking their heads mumbling “where did we go wrong!”.
    How to I politely say “they catch on so quickly because THEY actually got some real training!”? Or do I just “train” as I was “trained” and let them struggle on their own? Every time this happens it feels like a slap in the face, like I’m being told what I do isn’t that hard after all, or that I was slow not because I had to start from scratch, but because of some personal defect.
    I’m tired, I know I need a new job, but I’m trying to survive until I can leave.

    1. LCL*

      Polite has nothing to do with it. Next time your boss says something, tell them how much time you spend on training and how you do it. And tell him you didn’t receive this when you started, but found it necessary. And tell him once someone is trained, they need some repetition before they get really good at the task.

      1. nerkie*

        Thank you! That’s a very good tip! Most of the time I’m just so shocked that all I can do is make a “hmm” noise.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Preparing what you will say is key to many difficult situations. I prefer to use quiet time at home to prep my statement. I like to make a list of key talking points. Usually it’s 2-3 points but I pick the BEST of the best points, because my initial list is probably 10 talking points.

          Prep what you will say. Allow time to do this. Once you get used to prepping it will take less time in the future.
          Then go in the next day and say, “Boss, I was thinking last night about your question that you asked me and I would like to briefly explain something.”
          OR
          “Boss, you asked me something yesterday and I gave it some thought last night. I concluded that [insert answer here].”

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Your employer and/or boss doesn’t value you or your work Nerkie. Sorry. Nor will you be able to change it, as it’s painfully obvious they’ve been down this road a few times.
      They are idiots. They like the “bright shiny new employee” but not the actual process.

      I work in creative and design and I see this a LOT. People think doing graphics is is just oh so easy. Until someone who is not trained actually TRIES to do it and fails miserably and costs the company a lot of money.
      Where I work they actually thought a undergrad student could take the place of a seasoned designer with 20+ years of experience simply because they were a millennials and you know, “Millennials are good with computers and graphics stuff and such.” Until there were typos in their ads and the photos looked horrible… HaHaHa

      1. nerkie*

        Yeah, there’s a lot that goes on here that pretty much says “We punish hard workers!”. Still looking for a job in the meantime. And I was actually one of those Millennials! My boss said “hey, you’re good with a computer! Make me this giant equipment catalog that I can use for marketing!” I laughed and told her I knew nothing about design at all (true!) She pushed for a while afterwards but eventually dropped it.

      2. Chaordic One*

        I would go a step farther than what MissDisplaced has said and add that your employer also really doesn’t understand what you do and how difficult it is. (And even if it isn’t necessarily difficult it does require concentration and time to do.) They really don’t get it. Good luck in your job search.

  70. Dawn*

    How do you overcome your professional shortcomings without them sabotaging your growth along the way?

    I know that I have a couple of professional weaknesses that I am going to have to overcome in order to grow the way that I want to in my career- my first goal is to be promoted to Manager (from Senior Consultant) by the end of next year. That’s a totally do-able goal in my company, but I know that I first have to work on 1) Slowing Down and paying attention to detail in everything that I do (I get caught up in work and forget the small stuff whenever I’m going through a process) and 2) communication and positive working relationships with frustrating co-workers. Neither of these things are a surprise to me- I’ve been working on them my whole professional career- but I realized after a particularly sticky situation recently that I did not handle well that I have *got* to get a lockdown on them if I ever want to move past where I am.

    Fortunately, that sticky situation was incredibly low-stakes and the other players in it are not highly placed in my company and they’re both known to be difficult to work with. However, next time I might not get so lucky! So I’m wondering how to work on my weaknesses without having my weaknesses define me as I continue to grow. If anyone has any advice on that front, or has overcome what I’m talking about, please point me in a good direction! I have a good coach and great mentors at work, but I’m kinda at a loss about how to ensure I don’t lose face in the meantime.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      1) You can keep a pad of paper handy and jot down lists of small stuff that you might forget.
      Alternatively, you can review your work looking for those things you forget. Make yourself sit there and reread the whole thing before passing it to anyone else.
      Vowing not to make the same mistake twice has been very helpful in my life. It’s made me more aware of previous sloppy things I have done and check similar situations to make sure I have not made that particular mistake again. (My boss says I am good at not making the same mistake twice. I tell her, “No, I am creative enough to invent new ones.” We both laugh.)

      2) Read up on working with difficult people.
      Or perhaps you don’t like explaining/teaching. Jump in and make yourself explain or teach things. Learn by doing.
      Make it your goal to treat everyone with a similar level of deference and respect. This means when a person is annoying you, you pretend you are talking to a person you really like to work with. You use similar wording as you would with the likeable person. Over time you will find that you have a new and higher standard for communicating with people at work.

  71. T3k*

    Well, didn’t get the job I interviewed for last week, but at least they were courteous to let me know unlike others. But I’ve also just had a phone interview with another company I’d love to work for and I’m hoping to hear they want to move forward with me soon (it sounds like they want to bring someone on quickly).

    However, I don’t know if they’ll count this against me. Long story short, they had this job posted about a month ago and I applied, but never heard anything. They recently re-posted it (was taken down and then put back up later, but same description) and I decided this time I was going to attach a cover letter as their application system is set up only to accept one file which is typically a resume. So I combined my letter and resume and submitted it and was actually surprised to get the e-mail asking to set up a phone interview. They did point out they knew I’d applied before (something like “Thanks again for applying…”). Now I’m also a bit paranoid this person may have seen all my other past applications to other positions (several were entry level and a few related to what I originally did out of college) though I did stress that this job sounds like something I’d love to do and plays to my strengths better than my current background.

  72. Goin' non today*

    I was going to say my issue was similar to this Tuesday’s “I get angry when my coworkers make mistakes”, but I really don’t get THAT mad or hostile.

    Very recently I do find myself getting easily irritated when I have to handhold my “clients” through certain standard procedures related to their field. Why? Because my clients are generally considered pretty smart people (think along the lines of doctors/surgeons, astrophysicists, electrical engineers), and my patience for them is limited. Whereas when I work with their staff (think MAs, high school or college interns, etc.) on the same matter, I can talk them through the procedure for hours without issue. Not cool of me, I know.

    Anyway, how does one get past this? Again, this is very recent for me. I want to nip it in the bud now. How do you deal with irritation at work? At the end of the day I still get positive feedback from everyone I work with (“Oh, you were so helpful! Thank you so much!”) so maybe I’m masking it pretty well. Even if I am, it’s draining.

    What are your stress techni

    1. CR*

      I’m dealing with this lately, except with a summer intern (she doesn’t report to me but she comes to me for help a lot). She’s been here since May and still doesn’t understand super basic things. She needs a lot of hand holding, and sometimes it’s just too much bother to ask her to do things and explain them and deal with her mistakes…so I end up doing them myself. Sometimes I feel like I’m about to snap at her which is SO not me. I’m just really at the end of my rope.

    2. Dawn*

      Well, the first thing that sticks out is the nature of the people you’re explaining things to: “doctors/surgeons, astrophysicists, electrical engineers”. Those kinds of careers attract certain kinds of thinkers, and those kinds of thinkers do well in their careers because of how their brains work. And, again *because* of how they think, they’re probably not going to be great at walking through some standard procedural stuff- not saying all of them, but in my experience, the vast vast vast majority of people who think that way are not good at following along in procedural stuff. It’s frustrating because to you, they can’t think like you do, and it’s frustrating to them because you can’t think like they do.

      First, let go of the notion that they *should* be able to do what you (and their staff!) do easily. Different jobs require different kinds of thinkers, and their job doesn’t require the kind of thinking that yours does- that’s why YOU’RE doing great at your job, and why they don’t have your job! Focus on meeting them at THEIR level, whatever their level might be. Talk with them, listen to their concerns, and figure out what level they’re operating at with this stuff- once you figure out what their level is, you can match it with your explanations and expectations.

      Speaking of expectations, be sure to set those up front! What do you need from them, what can they expect from you, what do they need to be sure to do by X date in order to accomplish [whatever you’re trying to accomplish].

      Also, lean on their staff as much as you can- that’s what they have staff for! Anything you can delegate to a staff member, do so. Focus on building good relationships with key members of their staff, especially ones that have good working relationships with the doctors/engineers/etc. Let them be a conduit for what you need- remember these people work day in and day out with this person that makes you want to bang your head against a wall, they’ve probably got lots of tricks up their sleeve!

      Finally, realize that no one is being belligerent/stubborn/obtuse/etc *TO you*. You have the same goal they do (I am assuming)- getting done with these standard procedures which (again, assuming here) are an important part of their overall job. Focus on the fact you have a shared goal, and then work on accomplishing that goal together. Whenever you find yourself getting frustrated, remember that they don’t think the same way you do, they don’t have the same priorities you do (no matter how much they *should*!), and that ultimately you are both wanting the same thing. Focus on accomplishing your goal and remember that everything that they do, they are not doing to frustrate you, it’s just how they operate!

      1. Goin' non today*

        Excellent points, thank you! I’ll remember this for future interactions.

        It’s funny, the one thing I really need the person for (be it the Dr. or MA) only takes 3 minutes. But for whatever reason many people panic and as I try and explain the process, they start talking over me and I think it’s human reaction for ears to suddenly go deaf :) “Ok, great. Where it says step 2, enter your name” “NAME, WHERE?! WHO?!” *explosions in the background*

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Am chuckling. Einstein had to be told to shower.
        Sometimes I think that the very brilliant among us need someone to watch them because basics can be lost on them. In part because they are so very immersed in what they do, they have almost like a tunnel vision.

        I am less irritable at work if I am doing good self-care at home. Rest, exercise, diet and hydration. If any one of these are lacking our ability to get annoyed can skyrocket. If I caught myself being short with people at work, I made sure I went to bed earlier that night.

        If nothing works, you may have to consider that these people might not be your peeps. I understand your irritation. I work for a person who has a doctorate*. She also reupholsters her furniture and lays brick sidewalks. (yes, upholstery and sidewalks.) I have a fondness for people who are a mix of intellectually interesting and hands-on workers. I have tried to get over it. I can’t, it’s me. Maybe you can find something you admire about these folks and that will give you some relief. Or maybe you need a different environment.

        *I should say that I have a friend who dropped out of high school. It’s probably because they bored him to tears. He catches on to new stuff so fast, very seldom do I meet people who catch on like this. It’s not the level of education, it’s not about IQ either, it’s about having an attitude or even an awe about the wide range of things life has to offer.

  73. ReanaZ*

    So. I need help with career paths! 

    I have a degenerative joint condition that puts me at risk doing high-impact ‎things (running, lifting with lots of movement, etc) and means I can’t stand for long periods of time. Many years ago, I was a bartender, then a teacher, and both were too much standing, leaving me in terrible pain each night. For most of the last decade, I have worked in IT–a mix of BA work, consulting, database development, and implementation. Plus some lower-level management experience.  All for nonprofits. This was great! …unless I got worse/had an injury and am now restricted to about 2 hours of computer time a day (with accessible supports), max. Less would be better. I can handwrite a little longer but not heaps. I had to leave my job and am coasting on savings til I can figure something else out. (I am not eligible for disability for at least another year, although i’d rather work if I safely can.)‎
    ‎
    The trouble is I am at a bit of a lost of what the heck I can do. Can people help me brain storm jobs that:
    -Don’t involve long periods of standing
    -Don’t involve lifting more than 10kgish with movement
    -Involve minimal computer work
    -Involve minimal fine motor skills with the hands
    -Handwritten paperwork less than 3 hours a day‎
    -Preferably involve using my brain, but “don’t starve while not making myself sicker”>”be satisfied in job”

    I have some funds to retrain and some space to figure it out, but it would be really helpful to just have a big list of options, because I am feeling a little panicky and stuck. ‎

    1. NaoNao*

      Maybe a receptionist or front desk person at a low-volume hotel or museum or overnight?
      Basically you need a job that’s a “body in a seat” type. I’ve had a couple, where I was essentially “watching the store” for a boutique that got like NO traffic. So…front desk at an art gallery? A salon? Something where you do use a computer but on and off or infrequently.
      If you’re okay walking but not standing (I am, standing in place is harder, much harder than walking) can you do tours of museums, homes, or the like?
      There’s a job in our library system that’s processing books that are returned. I assume one can do it seated. It’s likely taking the books and scanning them as they come in, and requires movements of hands, but not really fine motor skills.
      Do you have any speaking or singing skills? Maybe voice over work, or teaching singing? It’s way outside the box, but…
      If you’re able, perhaps set up passive income streams. Do a podcast, YouTube or other medium for tutorials. Write (using voice to text software) books about your area of expertise and self pub. Create educational PDFs and webinars and charge for them. And so on.
      Can you do dog walking? Or pet sitting/house sitting? I have an acquaintance that is a “professional pet sitter”. It may not pay much, but it would be something!
      Can you drive? Not for Uber but for like, “Access-a Ride” or public transpo? Or short haul trucking type of thing?

      Odd jobs:
      Can you do a “gig” and power through—like freelance stuff for a few hours a day? I know this is everyone’s dream, so…

      Good luck!!

    3. Rainy, not-PI*

      Have you checked out O*Net? It allows you to browse occupations based on a number of different skills etc and might be a good initial pass through a lot of different possible next jobs.

    4. Zip Zap*

      I also have a joint condition and similar limitations. I’ve done all kinds of office work, teaching, and driving jobs.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Could you type longer if you had a Dragon?

      Maybe if you could get some assistance on adaptive equipment you could take something you already have background in and do that.

      My friend is losing her vision. Every so often I tweak her computer for her so she can keep going. I think my point here is nothing stagnates and we just have to keep modifying what we are doing so we can keep doing it.

  74. OfficeProblems*

    So, my office has a big problem, and I’m going anon to discuss it because it’s sensitive.

    We hired a woman who was obese, but could still move and worked well. Not a big deal, office is fairly sedentary, no lifting or stairs.

    But in the past two years, she put on enough weight that she can no longer walk more than a few steps at a time, and begun to use a powered scooter, like at big box stores. The office is accessible, but the open plan room she is in really does not have room for her scooter. If she puts it next to her desk, she is blocking a door that needs to stay clear because of fire code, and if she puts it in the corner it blocks access to coat hooks and the office whiteboard and makes it a bit narrow to walk around. She even complained about moving the scooter to the corner, but it’s literally a few steps! Obviously this means she can’t keep it in another part of the building either.

    She also began taking longer than usual for breaks and such; she is often not back within the half hour given for lunch, and when she has to use the bathroom, she is usually away for twenty minutes at a time. Additionally, she is more tired than usual and coworkers reported that she falls asleep at her desk during work. Her teapot productivity is one of the lowest in the office.

    She’s recently claimed her weight as a disability by itself- that can be done now, apparently. So her long breaks are covered, but what about falling asleep, her chair being in the way, and such?

    I have concerns about others’ morale, too. She asks coworkers for help daily doing things like plugging her phone to the modem USB to charge, or picking up stuff she drops (her stomach sticks out enough that she can’t reach behind the monitors for the modem). But the main issues are that she is often eating at her desk, and has difficulty cleaning herself, leading to body odor. So the people sharing the room hate it, their productivity is also down, and my company has trouble retaining people who work in that room. The food and BO smells just get to them. I wish we could give this woman her own office, or have her WFH, but we don’t have any to give without putting HR or management into the open plan, and don’t WFH for security reasons.

    As the first level boss, I really want her gone, but upper management is made up mostly of lawyers, who see that she claims a disability and don’t want a discrimination suit. But they don’t spend the time at this office like I do!

    Any ideas? Please don’t pile on, this is more about the odor issue, sleeping, and lack of productivity than weight.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Oh Dear! I totally understand how this is difficult and I’m not experienced in this thing (just trying to see your side of it–but I’m sure her side is quite different!). But I do think HR would have to look at the disability laws here and determine what “reasonable” accommodations are. The sleeping while at work might not fall under what is reasonable (she is still expected to do her job), but I don’t think the smells, or scooter or “being in the way” really fits and you should not bring that into the argument and you need to pull some of you annoyances out of this, even if they might have some validity.
      Stay focused on the facts of the job. Is she still able to do it or not?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      She’s recently claimed her weight as a disability by itself- that can be done now, apparently.

      I do think fat people get way too much hate and have to deal with way too much crap from society, but I can tell you that I went through some fairly lengthy “Don’t discriminate” classes at a former job (granted, this was in the state of California over ten years ago, so may vary by region or might have changed since then). The HR person made a point of saying that you shouldn’t discriminate against people for being fat, but legally they are not a protected class, so legally you could, in fact (even though you’d be a horrible person for doing so) say “I’m firing you because you’re fat.” And, I was working a regular office job. I wasn’t working at a fitness club or anything.

      1. Manders*

        I think this has changed in recent years in many states. Also, it sounds like she has some legitimate mobility impairments, and sometimes those are protected even if obesity alone isn’t. I’d be very cautious about firing her without speaking to an employment lawyer who’s very familiar with local and federal laws.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          To be clear, I’m not advocating firing her. I was just addressing the small bit about claiming that weight itself is a disability. That hasn’t always been the case (may not currently be the case). But, yes, certainly other impairments may be considered disabilities that are protected.

    3. Manders*

      Oof, this is tricky. Are your upper managers employment lawyers? If not, can you speak specifically to an employment lawyer about this?

      It wouldn’t solve the productivity problem, but would working from home be a possible accommodation for her? That would take care of a lot of the surface-level issues you’re having in the office (odor, scooter not fitting into the space, coworkers being interrupted with tasks, retention of other employees, people getting upset about her bathroom breaks) and then you could focus solely on coaching her on performance.

      1. OfficeProblems*

        Like I said, no- it’s a security issue, the office deals with confidential matters, so upper management says no WFH. My immediate boss is the manager of a few local offices, and HER boss is an employment lawyer. Maybe I should talk to boss’s boss?

    4. CM*

      I think this is definitely a matter for an employment lawyer, who should be able to advise you on which accommodations are reasonable (I would think that it’s important for you to provide enough room for her to maneuver with her scooter, but should not have to allow messy eating at her desk if it is against general workplace policy, and certainly should not need to tolerate poor performance). The problem is, if you have a lot of lawyers in your management, they are likely to be very conservative about possible risks. I think talking to your grand-boss sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately, if you need approval from people above you to do anything about this, you may be stuck. But if grand-boss is supportive, she may be able to help you put together a performance plan.

    5. Althea*

      As a practical matter, can you reconfigure where she sits so there is a space for her scooter without it being in the way so much? Perhaps move her into a corner away from the coat hooks?

      And the food isn’t something that is protected. If it’s bothering a lot of people, make a rule that all food must be eaten in a break room or otherwise out of the open area of the office.

      The BO issue is dicey, but I think we’ve had “my employee smells, what do I do” questions before, and I think it is something you can bring up with her as part of what is expected in terms of professionalism, cleanliness, and dress code. I’m sure she’ll tell you if it’s part of a medical issue. If it’s a matter of her having a hard time cleaning herself, I’m sure there are ways to do it, as there are plenty of heavy people in the world who do not have BO issues. You might leave this part until you can speak with a lawyer to see how to handle it if it’s related to disability.

      And the sleeping. It really is a performance issue and I don’t think you’ll have to consider allowing her to sleep as an accommodation! But that also is a post-lawyer question IMO.

    6. Rusty Shackelford*

      I have concerns about others’ morale, too. She asks coworkers for help daily doing things like plugging her phone to the modem USB to charge, or picking up stuff she drops (her stomach sticks out enough that she can’t reach behind the monitors for the modem). But the main issues are that she is often eating at her desk, and has difficulty cleaning herself, leading to body odor. So the people sharing the room hate it, their productivity is also down, and my company has trouble retaining people who work in that room. The food and BO smells just get to them.

      It seems like these issues don’t have to be weight-related. I mean, people make annoying requests of their coworkers even if they’re not obese. People have body odor even if they’re not obese. People stink up the office with food even if they’re not obese. Can you address those issues the same way you would if anyone else in the office were causing them?

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Yes, but what I’m saying is, if you’re worried that you can’t address obesity-related problems, these are not necessarily obesity-related problems. These, at least, can be addressed separately.

    7. Student*

      You need to start documenting as many concrete, measurable productivity problems as possible, and try to get her to address them.

      The sleeping-during-work-hours is not covered by an obesity disability. You should keep a record when she does it. You should also tell her clearly that she can’t sleep during work hours and she needs to stop doing that immediately, and document that you had such a conversation. If she says it needs to be accommodated, get legal’s input, but get a doctor’s letter saying it’s part of the disability, and be very clear with your bosses on the frequency/duration/impact on business of it.

      The USB charging thing seems like something where, if it is a daily complaint, you should just buy one for her office and have it plugged in once and tell her she can’t take it home. It’s the cost of other-employee morale. Then there’s just a cable on her desk ready to charge her phone, no co-workers involved. Dropping things might be solved by a reaching-grab tool, so she can do it herself, and that’s probably not costly either.

      1. Tatiana*

        If it’s her personal phone, her office has no obligation to buy her a charger cable. If she wants to buy an extra cable of her own and leave it at work, that’s fine.

  75. Fabulous*

    This isn’t work related, but I probably won’t be online for the weekend thread so… I’m getting LASIK on Monday! It’s been 20 years coming and I’m very excited and extremely nervous. Doctor says I should be able to return to work on Tuesday without any issues, that I’ll just need to have some drops on hand. This will be an interesting upcoming week to say the least!!

    1. CR*

      Wow, so jealous! How bad are your eyes, if you don’t mind me asking? I’m 32 and have been wearing glasses since I was 8…my eyes are terrible though and I have astigmatism, I don’t know if I’m a candidate but I dream of getting LASIK.

      1. Fabulous*

        Sounds like we have very similar eyes. I am also 32 and got glasses when I was 12 or so. Astigmatism in both eyes, and my contacts are both around -4, though the doctor I saw yesterday says I’ve been super over-corrected. Like I should be around -2 or -1, but was put in -4’s. So there’s that! Consultations are free, so it really doesn’t hurt to see if you’re a candidate, especially since the doctor said about 92% of people are!

    2. LCL*

      You’ll need some reading glasses to go with the drops, too. Be prepared to go to the drugstore after you work for a bit and pick up a cheap pair of readers. Good luck with your procedure. Take the valium if they offer it. The procedure is so quick, the prep takes longer than the work.

      1. Near the Border*

        Yeah, I was so relieved when they said they ‘give valium before the procedure, LOL.

    4. AlaskaKT*

      Ugh so jealous! I’ve done the consult and my corneas are too thin unless I get the super expensive kind. I’m selling a property soon so I should have the money to have it done, although I’m considering only doing one eye (do they let you do that?). I’m completely night blind in my right eye, and am slowly loosing day vision as well from center out with no known cause, so I feel like it would be wasted.

      My dad had lasik 10 or so years ago, and he just started needing reading glasses. But I figure 10 years of good vision is more than I’ve had so far! I started needing glasses when I was 8, so I’ve pretty much always had bad vision.

  76. TO GIFT OR NOT?*

    I just started at my current position 3 months ago. My direct supervisor is getting married next month and will be gone for a week and a half. I’d like to buy her a card to congratulate and extend my best wishes to her and her soon-to-be-husband.

    Our relationship is solely work focused. Would it be appropriate to give her a card before she leaves for her wedding?

    2. k.k*

      It’s a very nice thought but that early into a job, I wouldn’t get her a card just from you. You haven’t had time to build a super close relationship yet and after three months I’m guessing there haven’t been a lot of life events in the office for you to see how others usually handle it. A group card could be a good option. I’d say to my team member/peer “Hey I was thinking of getting a card for Jane, would you guys like to all sign it?” and see how they react. Probably they’ll say “oh that sounds nice, of course”, but if not it will alert you if there is any weird company norm that frowns upon things like that.

        1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

          Yeah, a card is nice. But I wouldn’t get a gift (however, if the whole office is taking a collection to buy something and you want to contribute, that would be ok.)

  77. ichigo*

    What are the commentariat’s thoughts on this style of managing?

    My manager’s been giving me some tips lately as I move into more of a manager role myself. She says that when people ask me for things, I should ask them why they want it and what they want it for. However, having been on the other side of this approach, I know it can feel like my manager doesn’t trust me to know what my needs are. On the other hand, I know that when I answer my manager’s questions, she’s better able to get to the root of my problem and find the info I’m looking for. Considering that I’m often working with people who are young, relatively new to the workforce and are not always the best at asking for help or understanding their own abilities and workload, is this the best approach?

    1. Tableau Wizard*

      I guess my question back (ironically) would be to ask what value she gets in knowing the answers to those questions. Also, is she talking about your direct reports or other people asking things of your team?

      I know that when I’m approaching a manager like that, I would be preparing my armor/argument each time. It’s exhausting and doesn’t seem to add value.

      1. ichigo*

        I guess an example would go like this:
        Me: “Hey Stella, where do we keep our old teapot holiday catalogues?”
        Stella: “What do you need them for?”

        And if I tell her I want them as inspiration or reference for designing next year’s catalogue, she’ll tell me where they are, but if I’m looking for pricing and discounting trends, she’ll point me to a spreadsheet that contains our pricing history.

        As to your question about whether this is directed at direct reports or people outside the team, I’d say it’s both.

        1. Infinity Anon*

          I would modify it a bit. If it is an easy answer, then answer it and then ask why.
          “Hey Stella, where do we keep our old teapot holiday catalogs”
          “I believe that they are in cabinet B. What do you need them for?”

          That way you can direct them to another resource if needed but they know they will get the information they asked for without having to fight for it.

        2. Observer*

          Her way sounds reasonable. A lot depends on how you ask. And a bit of judgement – in your example, if there is no pricing spreadsheet, then it doesn’t matter WHY they want it, do you might as well answer the question. Also, sometimes it help to specify what YOU are asking for.

          Service Manager (SM): Hey could you create a bablefish report for me?
          Me: What is this report for
          SM: Tries to be helpful and starts giving me a novel (which she doesn’t have time for, but needs to make sure I understand what she wants.)
          Me -cutting in – All I need to know is whether this is a service management report or a charge back report.

          If I had just jumped to “Is this for service management or chargeback processing?” that would have worked and been a lot faster.

    2. Jillociraptor*

      This general approach is something I’ve found very helpful even in managing laterally and working with peers. But asking bluntly “What do you need that for?” can sound a little accusatory. I usually ask something more like, “Can you tell me more about the big picture so I can get you what you need?” or “Can you tell me more about the final product this will go into?” That frames the question more as wanting to make sure you’re able to contribute what you can to the success of the project, and less as interrogating the person.

      This strategy also works well for people who are being sneaky and trying to get information they shouldn’t have access to, so there are collateral benefits!

  78. Dankar*

    I got an adjunct position at the local community college! They didn’t have a class that would work with my full-time schedule this Fall (I had very specific hours I could work), but I’m on the schedule for Spring. I’m nervous about getting back in front of the class for the first time in a year, but at least I have a couple of months to retool my syllabus!

    Thanks, AAM community, for the encouragement on my earlier posts about this!

    1. KR*

      So happy for you! A friend of mine is applying for an adjunct position for the first time so you are giving me Hope for her.

  79. No fuss, anony muss*

    Any tips on helping a colleague differentiate between needing an answer/solution vs. needing a policy? “Jane” is very, very detail oriented and gets frustrated when the rest of us do not see the need to get in the weeds with her. She recently spent months digging through all of our team’s minutes in order to locate all the decisions we’ve made over the years and incorporating them into our team’s manual. A discussion ensued in which it became clear that she puts “When the stapler runs out of staples and the secretary is out, it’s okay to borrow a stapler from another desk” on the same level as “When you’re calling in sick, be sure to email the team, too.” (In case it’s not clear, the last one is IMO a policy while the first is just something we just do.) When I suggested that a policy is meant to cover common occurrences, she pushed back and said we have stapler issues more often than we have people calling in sick. I’m biting my tongue to keep from saying, “Don’t sweat the small stuff” because to Jane, there is no small stuff. Other ideas?

    1. Morning Glory*

      Instead of looking at how often something occurs, why not frame it in terms of importance? There is no reason to have a policy of borrowing staplers because the worst case scenario is someone’s missing their stapler and feels annoyed.

      On sick leave, the worst case scenario is a major deadline or meeting gets missed because people don’t know the person responsible is out sick. One of these scenarios is far worse than the other.

    2. Amber Rose*

      A policy is a statement of principles meant to guide future decisions and courses of action. They’re very general, and allow people to make decisions based on the priorities of the company. Using a stapler is not a decision, it’s a specific action that is a step in a list of steps to accomplish a task. You make the report, you print the report, you staple the report.

      It’s more something you’d just ask people to do in order to not annoy other rather than document it officially. Or it would be in a training manual, maybe, if you wanted the manual to be that granular. Ours are. Every job has a list of tasks, and every task has a list of very specific steps. It’s a preposterous amount of paperwork. Nobody reads them. But they’re there.

      1. Morning Glory*

        Well, no, there can be specific company policies on certain things; they don’t have to be general.

        Like, you must provide receipts for all purchases. Or , you must check with Wakeen in communications before agreeing to do an interview. You must get special permission before spending more than $X on a flight. These are not more general than the stapler thing, they are just more important.

          1. Morning Glory*

            …But the OP’s example of a legitimate policy would fall under your definition of a rule. So maybe you should mentally substitute the word rule in for policy to answer the question.

    3. LCL*

      Every team needs a Jane. But only one. I learned that my Jane actually could and did prioritize things, but he did all of that processing in his head. To his way of thinking, if you were setting down rules and policy you were obligated to list every related fact, and expected to come to the correct conclusion once you had read! every! sentence!

    4. HannahS*

      Maybe a policy is something that is primarily work-related, where the purpose behind it is above-80-% to do with productivity. If not followed it’s a major inconvenience to everyone and might end a person getting spoken to by higher-ups. Whereas a guideline (the stapler thing) is more an extension of culture, and is more amenable to personal preference. Like, if Wakeen refuses to tell others when he’s out, it throws a wrench into everyone else’s work flow, and it doesn’t matter much if Wakeen doesn’t want to, he will be told that he really does need to do that. But if Wakeen has a hangup about other people touching his stuff or using it without his express permission, it’s not really a big deal, it’s just “…but don’t use Wakeen’s because he has a Thing about it.”

      So, something like “submit your receipts no later than a week after getting back” is a policy, because doing it is part of your job, and not doing it is not doing your job. But “don’t leave your coffee spoons in the sink until the end of the day” is a guideline, because it’s related to general office practice/culture, and not doing it is rude rather than shirking job-related task.

  80. licoricepencil*

    Thanks to those who answered last week about my boyfriend trying to network in the legal field as a new attorney.

    Since last week, he’s made a couple of new connections, and he tried looking into local bar associations, but unfortunately he can’t afford the initial dues. He’s sent an email to one that says they offer discounts to young attorneys, but he hasn’t heard back yet.

    He did get an interview for a doc review firm, but he is worried that will kill his career before it even starts. Any advice there?

    Thanks!

    1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

      Take the doc review for a while and keep networking! I have been looking for salaried lawyer jobs for a while, but I don’t have family support because, well, see my username. And I have to pay rent.

      It’s “kill my career” or starve, and anyway I was able to get foreign language projects that pay great.

      1. licoricepencil*

        Thanks! He doesn’t have a foreign language, but he does have very strong familial support. He’s been doing part time work at his family business in order to make loan and car payments for the time being. The doc review on top would definitely help!

        One of his more recent leads is for a fellowship in fall 2018 doing the kind of legal work he loves in my city. We’re both hoping that’ll work out.

        Also, your username is great!

    2. K*

      There are lots of classes and bar associations that offer discounts to new lawyers (usually defined as being in practice less than 5 years). Many events are open to the public and not just members, so always check the fine print.

  81. yasmara*

    Anyone having major trouble with the Honda ad on the site? It’s driving me nuts. Pops up at the bottom, sound I can’t turn off, ugh. I tried an ad-blocker but it bogged down pretty much every website so I had to disable it (Chrome on a Mac).

    2. Althea*

      I don’t even know what the ad is for, but there is an orange one that comes back every 10 seconds even when I close it. And sometimes some crazy malware pops up that says I have a virus and to call a number – but it’s from the site, not from my computer or virus software. It sucks :(

    3. London Engineer*

      What ad-blocker are you using? They should be speeding websites up not slowing them down.

    5. NoMoreMrFixit*

      I had similar problems with various sites until I uninstalled adblock and switched to ublock. Did the same on both my mac and my pc and no more problems. I realize the site owners rely on ads for revenue but too many ads these days are getting in the way of actually accessing the content I am interested in.

    6. Miso*

      Not with that ad, but I’m still getting a ton of those redirecting ads on my phone. Feels like it was especially bad these last days.

  82. stitchinthyme*

    With all that’s been happening in the US lately, I’m wondering how much boat-rocking is okay to do at work.

    Background: my company (in the computer software/hardware industry) provides one meal per week, alternating between breakfast and lunch. These meals are catered from places around the area, some of which are local and some chains.

    This week was breakfast, and the food was from Chick-Fil-A. Leaving aside the fact that I don’t like their food anyway, I wouldn’t pay to eat there even if I did because of their history of donations to anti-LGBT groups. I didn’t eat the breakfast from them either, but as I said, I don’t like their food, so it wasn’t that much of a hardship. No one noticed whether or not I ate anything, as I knew they wouldn’t — breakfasts are not a communal meal at the company like lunches are, as most people get in at different times and just eat at their desks.

    I posed the question on my FB page when this week’s breakfast was first announced, and the opinions of my friends (all pretty liberal, like me) ranged from “Eh, eat it anyway, it’s already paid for” to “Not only should you not eat it, but you should talk to whoever’s in charge of ordering and ask them not to buy from there again.” So I’m torn on whether I should say anything to management, ask them to refrain from ordering from Chick-Fil-A in the future. This is a small company (~40 employees), and I’m not sure if there are any LGBT people working here.

    In general, though there’s been enough political discussion at various times that most of my coworkers are aware of my leaning stance (including a day-after-election-day dust-up with a guy I haven’t spoken to since), I usually try to keep my head down, do my work, don’t bring up politics, and leave the room when someone else brings up the subject. I have strong feelings about not supporting businesses that stand for things I don’t believe in, but I don’t believe in imposing those feelings on others, and I’m not a big fan of rocking the boat at the place I depend on for my livelihood. (Though for the record, I don’t think I’d face any negative consequences if I *did* make the attempt. They might or might not choose to honor my request, but I wouldn’t be fired or disciplined for asking.)

    Thoughts?

    1. stitchinthyme*

      Ugh, first sentence in the last paragraph should read “…aware of my left-leaning stance”. Wish I could edit.

    2. awkwardkaterpillar*

      I think you should stay out of it. You declined to eat the meal, which followed your own personal moral standards. I think this would fall into requesting others follow your standards (which you said you didn’t want to do) and rock the boat.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        Yeah, that’s kind of my feeling, too. I just feel really guilty, because a lot of my liberal friends say that sitting back and saying nothing when someone does something that marginalizes already-oppressed groups is just as bad as doing the marginalizing yourself. I’m self-aware enough to acknowledge that I’m generally not willing to compromise my safety or livelihood for faceless others…but I feel horribly guilty about that fact.

        1. Infinity Anon*

          I don’t think that not trying to prevent your employer from buying food from a company that donated to anit-LGBT groups is really equivalent to marginalizing people who are LGBTQ. If your company was making the donations it would be different. Personally, I wouldn’t say anything unless asked why I wasn’t eating the food, and even then I would just explain my reasons, not ask them to change where they ordered food from.

    3. J*

      If it makes you feel any better, the CEO of Chik-Fil-A did come out and say that they stopped giving to anti-LGBT causes.

      But I do agree; it’s not worth bringing up. They provide meals from a number of local places and this time the rotation just hit a place you don’t support.

    4. CM*

      I would say something. I wouldn’t make a big stink about it, but if you can show solid evidence about why a certain business is doing bad things, I think it’s worth bringing up. Like, if there’s another order from there in the future, you could send an email saying, “I noticed that we have been ordering from Chick-Fil-A. I am opposed to their business practices, including [facts; refer to a link for more details]. I’d like to request that we not order from them in the future.” You could also include something saying that you understand if they don’t honor your request, but you wanted to bring it up because this is something you care about.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      “(including a day-after-election-day dust-up with a guy I haven’t spoken to since)”

      Hmmm. Start speaking to this guy again, even if it solely in the course of doing the work at hand.
      Save political stuff for non-work hours.
      Skip the food if you must, but do it quietly to only satisfy yourself.

      Pick your battles. Not talking to this guy or not eating the food isn’t going to save the world. And if you keep going down this road you may not be able to save your own job. I suggest distracting yourself by focusing on the tasks in progress. I hold dear what my first boss said, “No one will ever say this but part of what we are being compensated for is our willingness to get along with others.” I have found this to be so true and there are times where my willingness to get along with other people and work with the flow of things has saved my butt and my job. Others did not make out so well.

      Your friends offer valid points but their primary interest is NOT your continued employment.

  83. Tableau Wizard*

    What do you do when you don’t trust the leadership above you and their business decisions?

    I’m a professional fairly new to the workforce, but I’ve always been recognized as a top performer. I recently took a new position in an established department of an established organization. After I took my position, a new VP was hired for our department. She is reorganizing and restructuring our department and several others. Her “style” does not include much room for communication, so it’s been difficult for me to trust her and what she does.

    That’s a lot of background to get to my actual question, which is: What should I do about the fact that I don’t trust my leader?
    I trust that she’s smart, but i don’t trust that she is acting in a way that protects her people or is in the best interest of the company – at least from my perspective. I want to work for someone I trust, so how do I change my way of thinking so that I can trust her more?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      If you don’t see anything to show that the VP is dishonest, then I would just say that they are not big on communicating. Some managers keep manager talk amongst the managers. If the VP was brought in to shake things up and make big changes, then that info needs to be kept confidential until the new system is in place. So you may not be lacking trust in your boss, you may be loosing trust in your company. That could be temporary, or it could be something that sticks with you for a while.
      If you’ve lost confidence in the company, then it may be time to start looking. But the good news is that Tableau skills are super hot now!

      1. Tableau Wizard*

        thanks for your thoughtful response! also, i’ve been obsessed with your username since i started lurking on AAM. :D

        1. AndersonDarling*

          Yep, it’s the Anderson Darling test for normality. I’m also a tableau expert so I’ve been tracking your name too!
          I worked with two companies that had big shake-ups. One let everyone know what was going on and gave notice about who was being laid off and what departments were being eliminated. The other company just started making changes and we didn’t know what was happening along the way. It created an Us vs. Them mentality between staff and managers, but I can kind of understand why they acted in such a way. In both cases, it was unsettling, just in two different ways.

  84. Frustrated Optimist*

    I have been job-searching for 2+ years. As my screen name suggests, it’s been frustrating. I haven’t been getting interviews lately, so I’ve tried to turn my attention to networking and informational interviews.

    Throughout my search, I have internalized the lessons of AAM related to following up: Namely:
    1. Don’t call to make sure they have received your application. If they want to interview you, they’ll contact you.
    2. After an interview, if you want to follow up, do so via e-mail, not by phone.

    However, in two recent informational interviews, both with people who do hiring, I have heard advice directly contrary to this: One person said that she got her job after calling to make sure they’d received her resume, and really believes this phone call made the difference. She suggested I try it.

    Similarly, another person said that e-mail is a terrible way to reach her because she’s so overloaded. She said that following up by phone after an interview gets her attention much more effectively, and really demonstrates interest on the part of the candidate.

    I am so confused! Any comments, insights, anecdotes, etc., would be appreciated.

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I’m betting that for each of those stories, there are 100 that say the opposite. I got my job after dropping my resume off at the company after applying online. The HR person put a lot of weight on the idea that I dropped it off, but I didn’t get the job because I dropped off my resume, that was just part of the equation.
      I was so desperate that I must have dropped my resume off at 20 other companies, and I never even got a call from them. Probably because dropping off my resume was a terrible idea and in the end, I just happened to find the right sucker to fall for the ploy. Long story short- I think you found two exceptions to the norm. Your current method of communication is good.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Unfortunately, there are so many contradictions! But generally, I trust the advice of AAM.
      However, there are ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS depending on your industry and regional area. I agree what flies in the big metro areas isn’t what works in smaller cities and towns.

      Calling to see if they’ve received your resume? To me ONLY if you have been referred by someone you know.
      Calling after an interview: Maybe. But only if I asked during the interview if it would be ok for me to call in about a week or two and check back with them. Generally, I do this by email.

      But again, it really depends on your industry and type of job. I can see many jobs that required and would appreciate a more personal follow up.

    3. Althea*

      I’d say they are outliers – some of them exist, but it’s not going to be true generally.

      I’d also say they aren’t as good at hiring. If they are paying more attention to a single phone call than to the assessment of the candidate’s skills and experience, then they are paying attention to the wrong things.

      IMO phone calls to show “interest” only work for entry level and/or retail-type jobs, where many candidates are similar to others and it’s the only thing available to help some stand out.

    4. Frustrated Optimist*

      Thanks, everyone, for your perspectives and reassurance that I’m not way off the mark.

      MissDisplaced – As it happens, I think my name and resume have been passed along to two hiring managers this week for open positions – really the first time I’ve had this happen. So I may I will try a little early follow-up, mentioning that so-and-so referred me.

    5. soupmonger*

      I’m advertising for a vacancy in my business this week. I asked for a CV and cover letter by email. I got two phone calls, one form someone asking if I had received his CV (I had, two minutes before he rang), and another from someone wanting to meet for a ‘relaxed chat’ about the advertised post. I told the latter the business was running at full gallop that week and I had no time to meet but if he had questions I could chat briefly while he was on the phone. How did these calls make me feel? Irritated. Did they incline me to look more favourably on their applications? Quite the contrary. Don’t call.

      1. Frustrated Optimist*

        Thank you for sharing this anecdote. Especially the last two lines! Very helpful, and I will definitely take it to heart.

        1. soupmonger*

          It does depend on the sector you’re looking for work in. But overall, the advice on the AAM site is spot-on and I’d follow it. Best of luck to you in your search and I really hope you find a job soon.

  85. un-titled anon*

    How important are titles, really?

    2-3 years ago I got a title change. It was symbolic more than anything, a “we can’t give you a bigger raise but want to recognize you do more than your original title implies” kind of situation. At the time it didn’t make a huge difference to my life as it was rarely used, so I just took it as a random thing.

    Since then there have been various changes, which is fine, but part of that was new people recognizing that New Title wasn’t a great descriptor of what I actually did, though Original Title wasn’t really a full descriptor either. Still, everything has defaulted back to Original Title, which makes me feel (ridiculously) like I’ve been demoted, when it comes up anywhere.

    I’ve also become convinced that this means I’m ruined and no one else will ever hire me ever for anything. How screwed am I? When I update my resume, should I leave New Title in place or indicate the switch back or just leave the whole thing as Old Title?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      To me they are kind of important. I had a fight some years ago over it when a new manager came in and decided to rewrite job descriptions and titles, and I was on the brunt of a “downgrade” in title but not duties (which oh so conveniently increased in scope). Maybe not a big deal within the company, but to the rest of my industry it really is a VERY big deal, and factors into pay and standing when you are called a “Global Teapot Manager” versus a “Teapot Specialist.”

      Likewise, you should not accept an upward title and duties without the corresponding increase in pay.
      I know AAM has some posts on how to word this in your resume, using the title that best makes sense for your duties.

    2. Phoenix Programmer*

      If your job duties have not changed much i would leave your title as is and show proggressive responsibilities.

  86. J*

    Yesterday I sat in as part of an interview panel for an admin who would support me. This is the first time I’ve interviewed for an admin in almost 10 years, so I was definitely rusty.

    One of the candidates looked great on paper, and I was excited to interview her, but she was terribly long-winded in her answers. We only had 30 minutes together and she spent half of it answering the first question on my list. I never had time to get into her technical skills (which aren’t entirely clear from her resume or cover letter). I could see her face drift into that “how do I bring this around to the answer” a couple of times, so the story definitely got away from her.

    Would it have been okay to interrupt her in an attempt to get her back on track? Or would that have been rude? I didn’t want to throw her off by stopping her in the middle, but that was unfortunate.

    1. fposte*

      You absolutely can and should stop an interviewee during an answer like this–it’s the best thing you can do for her if you won’t get the information you need otherwise. This also sounds like a pretty short slot for an interview, so I think you really have to be ready to do that if you want to cover your questions. “Thanks! Could you be more specific about your experience with Microsoft Sorcery?” “Thanks! We really need to move on to my next question.”

    2. Artemesia*

      FWIW my experience in hiring long winded interviewees is that it just gets worse on the job. This is a characteristic that is not much fun to work with.

  87. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    Hey open thread, it feels like I haven’t been around for ages. It’s been slow on the old job search front, although I’ve got a hot prospect right now that’s got me pretty excited – a nonprofit I clerked for back in law school it hiring and wants only 1-4 years of experience, which I’ve got (woo!). Plus I really believe in their mission, so bonus passion plus sign.

    One question for the crowd: My resume right now goes “key experience”, then “other experience”, then “professional activities”, then “education.” I’m thinking about adding a profile on top, but I’ve never written anything like this before and am not sure what to include – I’m fairly early in my career and don’t really have accomplishments to speak of, although I do have some experience generally considered pretty valuable (it’s already right on top of the resume, though). Does anyone have any thoughts? Would this be a place to reference my interest in the org’s mission/public service? What am I doing with this that isn’t just duplicating the rest of the resume and/or my cover letter?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Oh, here’s my current stab in the dark:

      Passionate and analytically-minded attorney with extensive research, writing, and e-discovery experience. Two years state appellate clerkship, experience drafting orders, briefs, and research papers. Special interest in state constitutional law and privacy law.

    2. DCR*

      I would not do this. It is so out of step with the legal field.

      Also, I would reorganize your resume. If you are only a few years out of law school, your education should be at the top. That is what people want to know. Then I would have a Relevant experience section, that included all of my legal experience. If applying for a non-profit or government position and you have relevant non-legal experience, include it there.

  88. Melody Pond*

    Wasn’t there a post fairly recently where a reader’s boss was emailing the reader’s entire team with a list of work that needed to be done, but the boss wasn’t specifically assigning it to anyone? And then got upset when it wasn’t done?

    I can’t find it anywhere, but it’s fairly similar to something I’m dealing with now, so I really want to track it down and see what Alison said. Does anyone know the link?

  89. AndersonDarling*

    Has anyone felt like their vocabulary was lacking? Sometimes my coworkers speak and I feel like a dummy because I have a thin vocabulary and my dialog just isn’t as robust.
    Any tips to get to the next level? I’m fine with public speaking in general, but I need help activating the vocabulary I have stored away in the dark corners of my brain.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yeah, it’s not really about words I don’t know, it’s more about being dynamic with my current vocabulary. I feel that my spoken vocab is limited. I’m not used to speaking outside my comfort zone.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Same here; I’m more eloquent in writing (except for commenting, LOL) than I am when speaking. Sometimes I get frustrated because there isn’t a lot of opportunity here for me to discuss things I’m knowledgeable in with someone who also knows about it.

    2. Another bureaucrat*

      I get most of my new words from reading, or some from podcasts. Try picking up the New Yorker, for example (I learn a new word every time I read that!, or listening to a podcast discussing politics or history. I like the Slate podcasts. They don’t make me feel dumb, but they don’t shy away from robust words.

      1. Leena Wants Cake*

        Audio books are particularly helpful for this. I think words stick with me better when I hear them spoken aloud.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I was just thinking about this today! A friend of mine was on a news program and used words and made references I hadn’t heard in ages. It reminded me that the media I consume and the stuff I read isn’t as intellectually challenging as what I used to consume and read. My advice? Pick up a book where you know the vocabulary will be vast, like a biography where the subject is quoted. Ron Chernow’s biography of George Washington is a favorite of mine and would fit that bill. The audiobook is particularly good. Once in a while, I read 19th century novels to kickstart my brain. Listen to some podcasts or TED Talks given by linguists or historians.

      I don’t necessarily recommend seeking out conversations where people deliberately use “big words”. To me, that sounds like a tiresome way to spend an evening.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        The audiobooks is a great idea! I know the go-to is to read more, but I think that I need to hear the words more than reading them. The Echo is getting a workout this weekend!

    5. Emi.*

      Read more! Read read read read read. Go to the library and choose a book that looks interesting, but (at least) makes you think “H’m, this may be a bit tricky to get through.” Especially books written by and/or about people from different places and times.

      1. CR*

        Yup, my coworkers are sometimes impressed by my random knowledge or my spelling/grammar skills but it’s only because I’m a reading addict. (Not trying to humble brag…I’m no genius but I do read a lot.)

        1. Becky*

          I read ALOT and have a bunch of random knowledge because of it. So people in my office just know Becky knows a lot of random stuff. But I also have a degree in linguistics and an editing minor so I get asked a lot of grammar/usage questions because people know it is one of my areas of expertise.

          Though my spelling…sometimes has problems. When you have different languages floating about in your brain–even ones that you only know a little bit of–it can really mess up your spelling.

      2. AndersonDarling*

        I will admit that I have gotten very lazy about reading. I used to read every night then I started playing hidden object games instead. It’s amazing how quickly the mind can retract!

        1. Emi.*

          I also did this, with flow puzzle games! It made me kind of irritable, though, and I was always on my phone instead of paying attention to my family, so I just banned phone games for myself (and deactivated Chrome to kill FB as well). It’s definitely a battle!

          I’m reading Gone With The Wind right now, which is … interesting.

    6. Morning Glory*

      I used freerice dot com back ages ago when I was studying for the SAT – it helps you learn new words through a game, and donates a few grains of rice to end world hunger for every answer you get right.

    7. ZVA*

      I know this isn’t what you asked, so feel free to disregard if it isn’t useful, but… tho I’m an avid reader/writer, I barely even notice people’s vocabulary in my day-to-day life! I’m much more interested in whether they’re speaking clearly, concisely, warmly… in the substance of what they’re saying and how it’s said, not in the words they choose. Of course, if you want to improve your spoken vocabulary, more power to you—but I just want to reassure you that if this is something you’re feeling badly about, or that makes you feel like you’re lacking in some way… I would never even notice if someone had a more limited vocabulary, and I doubt I’m alone in that!

    8. KR*

      When I learn a cool word, I try to use it as much as possible so I can practice and get it into my head. Then eventually I start using it as part of my normal speech.

    9. R2D2*

      I second the recommendation to read more often! Reading a good book has a magical, almost immediate effect on my vocabulary.

    10. Student*

      Reading is the best way to grow your vocabulary. You have options on reading material – it doesn’t just have to be books. When you find a new word, look it up.

      Using a thesaurus is also helpful. There are lots online. When I write an email, if I don’t like the way something sounds or think I’ve re-used a work too much, I look for a synonym online to change it up. It’s a nice vocabulary-builder because if you look up synonyms of a word you know, you’ve already got most of the definition in your brain while looking up the word. You just learn to express different nuances of the same idea.

      Learning a new language is also a good way to improve your vocabulary, because you’ll often learn the root words for stuff in English. It’s kind of a major investment if all you want is more vocabulary, though. You can pick several languages, mostly European, that English is a hodgepodge of – Latin, French, Spanish, Italian, German. If you go with other languages that English is farther from, you’ll eventually see a vocabulary improvement too, but there’s a lot more other basic learning involved.

    11. kitryan*

      Maybe it will help to know that some people have the opposite problem – I have a large vocabulary and sometimes struggle with sounding too much like a 19th century novel or a dissertation or whatever. Then I overcompensate and explain and it turns into an accidental slight on the person I’m talking to- assuming they wouldn’t understand the ‘big words’. I don’t think negatively on anyone who doesn’t use 50 cent words all the time, as long as they’re communicating what they need to and maybe tell me when I’m using a word no one’s used in conversation since 1928 and no one understands me.

    12. Chaordic One*

      Generally speaking I get along fine, but my newish job has a lot of insider jargon (mostly acronyms) that are kind of a PITA to learn. Even when you know what the acronym means, you might forget one or two of the exact words.

  90. TCO*

    I started a great new job this week! After several months of selective searching, being the runner-up candidate for a few different jobs, and trying to keep tolerating my tough prior job… it finally happened! I got the responsibilities, title, and raise I wanted. Thanks to Alison and the AAM community for all of the wisdom I’ve absorbed here over the years.

  91. LizB*

    I’m hiring again and just got sent the first functional resume I’ve seen in the wild! I… do not like it. The list of skills is impressive, but since I don’t know when the person did them or for what role (and they’ve held a ton of different roles), they don’t help me build a picture of the experience this person has. Add that to a cover letter that doesn’t demonstrate the level of attention to detail I’m looking for, and… nah.

  92. Althea*

    Someone left a job that I would like recently. It’s in my organization, doing much the same work I do now, but in subject matter I like better. Say, financial management of teapots instead of coffee pots.

    I’ve heard the whole position is being reconsidered, potentially splitting into multiple positions, relocating closer to the action, etc.

    I want to somehow throw my hat in the ring, but nothing is posted or decided upon. Should I contact the hiring manager and tell him of my interest – in case that might influence potential changes to the position? It’s hard to recruit for, so having a solid candidate might influence the final decision. I assume they would consider me a strong candidate – solid performance at a similar job and so forth. Any thoughts on how to proceed?

  93. Purple snowdrop*

    My work has agreed to a temporary reduction of my hours for a few weeks to help with me leaving an abusive situation (as vague as I can make it!). I <3 my work.

    2. LCL*

      Great news about your job, and that you are able to get out. I don’t mean your situation is great, I wish you all the best.

    10. Purple snowdrop*

      Thank you all. It makes things that bit easier in a hard hard situation. I never thought I’d need to ask for something like this but I’m so glad they can make it work.

    11. ..Kat..*

      Good luck and be strong. Let us know if you need us to crowdfund a trip for Elizabeth West to ‘kick him with skates on.’

  94. Lia*

    Hello,
    For those of you who currently have a full time job and are looking for a new job, I’d be curious to know what is your job search schedule like? Do you apply every day before/after work and/or do you rather work on this a few hours during the weekend?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I typically spend 1-2 hours 2x weeknights and 1 day of the weekend. This does not include calls and interviews though.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Same here. (Except I give myself the entire weekend off, unless there is a job posting I really want to ensure I get my application in/application deadline). Also not counting interviews (when I get those!)…

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      When I was in job search mode, I’d be checking for new jobs every day after work. Applying only if it made sense to apply.

    3. De Minimis*

      I try to apply on the weekend. I don’t really have time during the week other than filling out the profile sections of online application systems, etc.

      I do usually at least check out a few search websites each day, then e-mail the jobs to myself.

      1. beanie beans*

        I do something similar – check websites and do the searching on weeknights and do the actual applications on the weekends when I can get a good chunk of time to work on it.

    4. NoodleMara*

      I do the actual searching on weekdays, which is easy fairly brainless work that I can do while watching TV and switching between social mefia. In total I spend maybe an hour on weekdays. I do any applications on the weekends when I’ve got a solid chunk of time

    5. Jill*

      I do it daily or as close to daily as possible. I’ve had more than one recruiter tell me that applying early does make a difference because once they get 4 or 5 to interview, they don’t even look at the rest unless the interviewees are all duds.

    6. Chaordic One*

      I check job boards and listing daily. If I find something that sounds promising I apply for it within a couple of days. That said, I’m kind of picky and I live in an economically depressed area where there are not that many people, let alone job openings. I only apply for things that would be a step up from my current job in either job skills or pay and benefits. Sometimes a couple of weeks will go by when I don’t apply for anything and other times I’ll end up applying for 4 or 5 jobs in a week.

  95. Wow I spent a long time on this comment*

    I’ve been waiting for this thread! Please help me think of a new job title!

    I’m one year into a two year temporary position. At my one year review, the possibility of changing my title was raised because my current title reads as more entry level in other sectors (I’m in government) and isn’t all that accurate. My boss is willing and basically told me to think of something.

    My title is “[research division] public outreach coordinator,”and what I do is a combination of internal communications and internal and external outreach strategy. I don’t actually deal directly with the public myself, I try to figure out ways to communicate my division’s work internally and digitally, and to inform and train public-facing staff in incorporating our research and methods into their day-to-day work. I am responsible for some outreach projects and content myself, and I advise research project managers on process improvements, audience-centered outreach and training strategies for various research efforts, and areas of pote. However, I have basically no budget and don’t supervise any employees.

    My concern is that most of the jobs I see with similar titles to my current one seem to be for recent grads 5-10 years younger than me, or involve direct social services, sales, or more entry-level communications work. I think those are a step down from what I actually do in terms of scope and responsibility, and I don’t want to go from this job to one where I make half my current salary and have less responsibility. I make in the high 60s and I rarely work on pre-defined projects delegated to me, I propose my own or make recommendations to subject matter experts on improving theirs.

    The problem is I can’t think of an alternative title! Something like “communications strategist” might make sense but I am pretty sure I can’t use the word “communications” in my title for reasons of office politics I don’t want to get into. I don’t think I could get approval for an upgrade to “outreach manager” or something because “manager” implies big budgets and seniority here. In the future I would like to aim for positions in strategic communications or service/experience design, since I’d like to move into the corporate sector in a job that builds on the aspects of audience/organizational research and end-to-end planning I do now. Any ideas on a title that would help me move in that direction? TIA!

      2. LazyGirl*

        I was going to make the same suggestion :)

        But I have a second: where I work OP, I think you would be a specialist, so how about Public Outreach Specialist?

  96. Another bureaucrat*

    Related to our discussion on working with young kids, any tips on asking a prospective employer about flexibility and work life balance? Sample scripts?

    I mentioned in the comments on that post that I’m moving out of an academic staff job (where it was fine to largely manage my own hours — ex., leave at 4:30 or come in early or later depending on daycare needs). I’m interviewing at our university’s development/fundraising office for a position that would be a step up. I’m excited about the job and want to do well, but I always have really appreciated my flexibility here.

    I have no idea about the culture of hours/work-life balance there. I’m absolutely happy working late if there’s a reason – but at this point, with a young child, I’m not interested in working 8+ hr days , just because that’s what all the people around me are doing. But I can’t say that in an interview…. tips?

    1. Another bureaucrat*

      *clarification – over 8 hr days. Didn’t want it to read like I wasn’t interested in working 8 hr days. I’m actually hourly now, so I’m definitely hitting my 40 hrs a week in this job.

    2. J*

      Ask about work/life balance.

      I’m a higher ed development officer. I’ve worked in places with “summer Fridays” and “summer hours”. Some places are flexible, others are not. If they’re flexible, they’ll be open to discussing it in the interview.

    3. Althea*

      Ask a lot of questions about culture, hours, etc. during interviews. One thing you could ask, “What’s the after-work culture like? Do people go out, go home?” It’s hard for them to discuss how people behave after work without being honest about when people are finished with work. And it gives you a sense if workers are usually buddies or more colleagues who don’t socialize. Or just ask more directly, what are the hours in a typical week? Are there some weeks that are usually heavier and require more time in the office or at events?

      On flexibility: are people usually in the office? Do people telework, or is face-time prioritized? You can ask all of these things directly. Remember, you are interviewing THEM to find out if this is a good fit for you.

      If you get an offer, you can more directly negotiate and specific flexibility you’d like to have.

      1. Another bureaucrat*

        These are so helpful! Thanks very much. It seems obvious reading the tips, but I think I’m nervous about asking so I couldn’t get to the actual words. And I really like the after-work culture Q.

  97. strawberries and raspberries*

    I have to vent about managing one of my direct reports who I’m at BEC with already. He’s been consistently making errors that come down to just not paying attention; I’ve addressed these multiple times and been very explicit about what is expected and by when, and he’ll yes me in the moment but when I ask him about it later he’s “not sure” or “forgot” or will repeat the same update he gave me last meeting. I’ve been trying to be patient, because I know he’s not experienced, but I feel like he’s not taking the feedback seriously and he’s abusing the flexibility I’ve allowed. Further, his behavior has always been kind of juvenile (saying things like, “Am I in trouble?” when I ask to speak with him, going “Yes!” when I approve comp hours for him, making offhand comments to other staff about how “crazy” he is, etc.), but in our last supervision meeting he actually got really hostile with me, telling me that he didn’t “see the point” of a specific thing I had asked him to do (without offering an alternative of his own, mind you). My director overheard the meeting and agreed that he was out of line (like, you can disagree with me but be prepared to defend why and speak to me appropriately), and offered to sit in at our next check-in and back me up, which I so appreciate. I want to be a good manager (it’s my first time in a role like this). But like, on a human level, I’m so done with him. I’m flabbergasted by how cavalier he’s being about everything in spite of how supportive we’ve been, and as a result I’m losing patience with like everything he does. I’m not here for his jokes, I’m not interested in small talk, and when he does do something right I feel begrudging about acknowledging it because I feel like he takes the one positive affirmation as carte blance to screw up or ignore something else. (It’s also not lost on me that I’m the only female manager and the only one he treats like this.)

    1. KR*

      I think you need to have a serious talk with him and say something to the effect of, “I feel like you’re not taking my feedback seriously and you’re really starting to frustrate me. I need you to improve on x, x, and x. I know you’ve had difficulty remembering to do x, and I’ve seen a pattern where you do great for a little while and then fall off the wagon again. I need you to focus on improving on these aspects of the job and continuing to do things correctly.” I would praise him when he does things correctly since it seems like he needs to be reminded a lot of what the correct way to do things is, and say it like “Good job on processing the teapot report correctly! Now I need you to continue to do it correctly and make some more progress on x, x, and x.” And then when he messes up say, “We talked about this and it’s really important. what happened and why did you stop doing it correctly?”. Good luck – I’ve managed people like this and it’s infuriating. And if he pushes back about seeing the point of things, I think it’s okay to say something like “It’s okay if you don’t see the point in doing x – we’ve decided at management level that this is nessecary and I need you to do it even if you don’t think it’s important.” Basically s “because I’m your manager and I say so” standpoint.

      1. KR*

        Just saw the point about how you’re a female manager. This is even more an instance where I think you have to tend to take a “because I’m your manager and I say so” standpoint. It’s nice when you can explain the context behind decisions and instructions to him but it may start to feel like you’re convincing him and that isn’t likely to get him to respect you. I think in this case it’s better to be the bad guy to show You Are Boss. Be prepared to fire this guy. It sounds like you have no respect from him and he sounds like a sh!tty worker too.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Put things in writing and give him clear, measurable directives with deadlines.

      Basically, have a conversation and follow up with an email.

      Mr. Annoying,

      As we discussed today, you need to commit to the following:

      1. email completed TPS reports to me by 4PM every day
      2. respond to customer inquiries regarding product within 24 hours
      3. complete accurate data entry for system X by noon on Friday

      We will revisit your progress on these matters on [pick a date a reasonable amount of time in the future].

      1. Chaordic One*

        I agree with the detective. Provide him with detailed step by step instructions so that he won’t be forgetting how to do anything.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I’d make him do more talking. Don’t ask questions that can be solved with a yes or a no. Ask open ended questions.

      “Okay, Bob, we talked about this mistake a couple weeks ago and you agreed to solve the problem. Yet, here is the mistake again. Tell me what you are going to do to make sure this mistake does not happen again.”

      I made people give me a plan to prevent recurrences. It was more painful to come up with a plan than it was to listen to me “yell” at them. See, scolding is very passive. They can sit there and wait until the moment passes. But if you start to demand that they participate in problem solving that can get daunting. Some people start realizing, “Hey, I don’t want to go through this again.”

      Definitely tell him that “I forgot” is off the table as an explanation. He is being paid to remember. So what steps will he take to cause himself to remember.

      Take his standard lame responses that you expect him to give you and craft your own reply to it. Do this ahead of any meetings with him. I had to do this because I did not know how to respond to “I forgot”. I grew up being told that forgetting was not an excuse, ever. This response was foreign to me. I had to figure out what I was going to say ahead of the confrontation.

      1. neverjaunty*

        This is good advice. It’s a lot harder for him to just pinkie-swear to do better next time when he has to actually THINK about what he did and articulate how he won’t screw up again.

        Also, you need to make clear that there are going to be consequences for his behavior; this is placing his job at risk and you cannot continue to employ him unless he shows significant improvement.

    4. Working Rachel*

      Can you put him on a PIP for the errors and his lack of progress in addressing them? He needs to start taking his job and you seriously and it seems like escalating this might be helpful. “Attitude” is hard to fix so I wonder if you may ultimately need to fire him.

  98. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    So my longtime friend since childhood lives in San Antonio, Texas and is looking for a job. She can’t move right now because her husband has medical residency. And there are two issues:

    1. She’s not the sharpest crayon in the box (and I say this with all the love I have for her- she’s just ditzy as heck); and

    2. She’s Pakistani and open about being Muslim, though she doesn’t usually wear a hijab. And with politics as they are, and her in Texas, I just don’t know.

    She has a BA in communications, though not from a very good or well-known school, and is high-energy and good with people. I don’t know that a traditional office job would suit her well, because she loves to move around a lot and is very fit (she’s also a great cook, got to burn it off somehow!)

    I was thinking of giving her advice on how she might direct her search; she has been unemployed for a year and gets rejected a lot.

    1. Squeeble*

      Maybe something in higher ed? Since universities tend to be a lot more progressive and diverse, she might feel more safe there. I wonder if a job in student life or something similar might suit her.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        Actually that led me to another idea, thanks! Maybe a gym as a stopgap/part time while she looks for another job? Either leading classes or walking around making sure everyone is safe and cleaning.

    2. Snark*

      Having lived in San Antonio for a bit of time, I’d really hesitate to call her ethnicity a major problem in that particular location. Texas in general deserves a bad rap for its sociopolitics, but SA is pretty liberal, pretty Latino, and pretty multicultural, particularly in the northwest-central area of town where the health center is. The northern and northeastern suburbs are pretty conservative, but I would not chalk her difficulties up to islamophobia.

      What about, say, substitute teaching? Or hell, why not get certified and be a teacher? She could easily sub for English or Social Studies and coach something, and Texas is desperate for teachers. The ditziness issue might be an issue with teaching as a career, but she could substitute teach at at least be employed, and the pay isn’t awful. And sometimes you get on as a long-term sub while the original teacher is on maternity or out for health reasons.

      It sounds like she could also maybe look for something at one of the local universities, of which there are several, along the lines of student advising or admissions or running a student center or something. The other advantage SA has is lots of tourism and lots of parks and outdoor space, so maybe she could consider doing walking tours or historical interpretation at the old missions or something.

    3. MechanicalPencil*

      SA is fairly cultural, and there’s a good mix of a variety of cultures and viewpoints for a lot of reasons, so your friend shouldn’t have any issues from an Islamophobic perspective. If she were in a rural part of Texas, then I might be more concerned, but generally the major Texas cities are fairly culturally inclusive (with exceptions, as with anywhere).

      Maybe look into hospitality/tourism? Lots of events happen in SA, so maybe something like event planning? Although depending on what you mean by ditzy, that might not be a good fit. I think the ATT Center was having a job fair for the upcoming NBA team’s season, so if she could get attached with that? If she hasn’t figured it out, San Antonio loves them some Spurs.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        I don’t really mean “dumb”- I mean, she talks a lot, is kind of gullible, and wasn’t so great at traditional school skills. I tutored her and proofread all her stuff when we were kids. And she has a little way to go, learning professionalism-wise.

        All her best skills are more- kinesthetic, isn’t that a learning style? She just loves to be moving or making things. I’m thinking of suggesting she do something hobby-adjacent; she makes and decorates incredible cakes, organizes and cooks for dinners for some of the Muslim community down there, loves choreography and fitness, and raises her two exotic birds. Just not conventionally smart.

        1. LazyGirl*

          It sounds to me like she’s all kinds of smart, just not “book-smart”. I think your idea of something hobby adjacent is a good one. If she can organize and cook large dinners, she can organize and execute cooking classes. She doesn’t even need a job per se, could she approach a local bakery or kitchen supply store and pitch class ideas? How about restaurants?

          Good luck to her!

        2. MechanicalPencil*

          Kinesthetic is totally a learning style — it’s actually my stronger learning style, too.

          If she’s organized and cooked dinners in the past, then it sounds like event planning might not be too far of a stretch then. From what I’ve experienced, that just requires a level of detail that some people are either really good at or they aren’t. Maybe she could work as an assistant to someone? That’s usually a little bit more of a running around doing stuff type of job than a sitting still doing data entry.

    4. SA Resident*

      The economy is booming here right now. There are tons of job openings.

      San Antonio has always been a mix of liberal and conservative. About 50/50. I think the Texas stereotypes come from the northern and maybe eastern parts of the state. Texas is big and diverse. South Texas is traditionally very Mexican, culturally, because we’re near the border and used to be part of Mexico.

      But a lot of people have been moving to SA in the past few years. It’s slowly becoming more like Austin.

      The downtown area is pretty progressive and accepting. There are some conservative areas way out in the suburbs, but she’d probably have a lot of good options in the city.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Certified Nursing Aide (CNA) in a hospital or nursing home? There are 2 week (80 hour) classes and then you take a test to be certified. They are always on their feet doing something. Does not make a lot of money, but work is work.

  99. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

    Hey all!

    Hopefully easy question today…

    I got a Master’s from Kaplan University online, which I found out in last week’s thread has been acquired by Purdue.

    Should this change how I list that degree on my resume? I’m not currently looking but I do like to keep my resume current just on case.

    2. Snark*

      No, you’d use the name of the university and degree program as they stood when you were granted the degree.

    3. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

      Thanks to you both!! I’ve seen comments previously about how to address employer acquisitions on a resume but never schooling. :-)

      1. Snark*

        I had to look into this because my major no longer exists and is now called something else.

        As far as acquisitions go, that’s also happened to me, and if anybody’s wondering:

        Environmental Scientist II: Darjeeling Environmental (acquired by TEACOM)

  100. Allie Oops*

    I have a question for people who work partially in-office and partially remotely.

    I’m looking for a general idea of your comfort zone in regards to how “official” you are while working remotely. Not your organization’s policies, necessarily, but more how you interpret the structure you’ve been given.

    For example, do you feel comfortable going out for lunch on remote days, or do you feel obligated to remain in one place? If you are working from home, is it okay with you to toss a load of laundry into the washer before your shift starts, or do you say “I do nothing personal from the moment I open my eyes until after 5:00 PM”. Do you ignore the phone if it’s not a business call? And so on.

    1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Well, I try to do one day a week at home (possibly going to two when we get squished soon due to office remodelling) and they give everyone a lot of latitude. I cannot tell you how much more I get done on my Fridays at home – today I ran three loads of laundry, cleaned both bathrooms, did the dishes, cleaned out the cat bathroom etc, while also doing a solid 5 hours of work on researching and writing for this document I have due on Monday.

      For me, having that five minute break to run some laundry gives me a chance to take a step back and think about what I am writing and my logic. Its almost…invigorating I guess? Whereas at work I would probably go hit the news sites and waste a half hour or more.

      I think if I wasn’t hitting my deliverables or I was overprotective of WFH and not ever flexible about coming into the office that would be different but for the most part we are trusted as long as we get things done. I am at home, I am working, and I do treat it like a workday with certain time for lunch and start/finish, there is just a bit more flexibility for personal stuff in there too.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      I tend to treat such things as though I was in the office, and yes sometimes I will throw in a load of laundry or let the contractors in, get the mail, etc., as I don’t see it being any different than going to the bathroom and/or chatting with a coworker, getting a drink, etc. It’s just in a different place. You have to get up from your computer on occasion!

      I typically do stay in for lunch if working at home, but I do take a short break to fix some food. To be honest, I end up working LONGER hours when I work at home as I have no need to fight the traffic for 2+ hours. If at work, I work 7:30-3:30 I’m on the road at 6:30am and skip lunch so I can miss traffic and get home around 5pm. At home I tend to work 8am-6pm, sometimes even later and feel far less exhausted.

      1. KR*

        This! I also do laundry, chores, take a break to let the dog out, ect. But I am mindful of my time so if I say I’m working from 8-12 but I spend 20 minutes doing laundry I actually work from 8-12:30 to make up for it.

        1. SophieChotek*

          Yes me too. And like MissDisplaced said – and if I run to get coffee, it’s not really any different than the co-worker that ran to get coffee for the office, or everyone going out to eat. But if I do end up getting distracted/spending 20 minutes folding my laundry or suddenly become overwhelmed by a desire to mop my kitchen floor then I work longer to make up for it.

    3. Damn it, Hardison!*

      I usually do some laundry when I work from home, and I may run a quick errand during the day (usually during the lunch hour). However, I start my day day early and end later -basically, I start at the time when I would normally leave for my commute, and end when I would normally get home (my commute is usually 1 hour each way).

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      Interesting question. I do remote days ad hoc. My lunch hour is my own time and if anything I’ll make the effort to get out and get some fresh air, do local errands I can’t usually do, etc.

      I do laundry and stuff here and there. I think about work problems at the same time, like while going to spin the laundry or feed the cat, the way I might while doing a tea round at work or going to the water cooler. I figure it evens out as I don’t get the ad hoc interruptions I’d get at work.

      I answer calls if they look urgent or official. I wouldn’t chat to friends on work time. Also no social media and no daytime TV!

    5. kitryan*

      I’m hourly and recently started WFH 2 days a week. I do only small 2 minute non work things – flipping the laundry/starting a load, scooping the litter box, grabbing water or a snack, on the same logic that I would be getting water and briefly chatting if I were at the office.
      I do leave on my lunch break and mostly use the time for eating lunch, exercise, and run errands in the neighborhood and stuff, as health reasons were the reason for the WFH. I have fatigue issues and back pain and the commute exacerbated both things and left me in a cycle where I was too tired to get out and get exercise and do my physical therapy work and exercise/PT was being recommended to help with the fatigue/back pain and the WFH was intended to break the cycle. Since I’m hourly, I don’t think this is inappropriate but I would feel uncomfortable if I risked not getting back from lunch in time, so I stick to my area and don’t go more than 20 minutes away by foot.

  101. Podcast recommendations*

    Can anyone here recommend a good podcast (or a specific episode) that would offer basic guidance on management/how to handle staff issues? I have a warehouse supervisor who would really benefit from learning more about how to properly manage mildly insubordinate staff members and keep her own emotions in check. I have coached her but would like to offer her secondary materials to review on her own, and I think a podcast would work better than a book or article.
    Many thanks for any tips!

      2. Podcast recommendations*

        Thank you! I searched their site and did find one that was particularly suitable.

    3. Accidental Analyst*

      Check out Radical Candor. The premise is to care personally but challenged directly. This includes things like giving actionable feedback, helping people grow beyond their role etc.

  102. Paige Turner*

    I’m at BEC stage with a lot of the fed employees I work “with”- I’m a fed contractor and I can’t get anything done because no one responds to my emails, or requirements/policies change without anyone notifying me, etc. etc. There are other issues that I won’t get into except to say that the overall atmosphere right now involves a lot of uncertainty and distrust. I’m pretty low-ranking so I can’t really do anything other than roll my eyes privately and try to move on. My anxiety levels are already really high due to Events Outside of Work and I feel like I don’t have enough patience/energy left to deal with work stress. No question, I guess, just TGIF ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    1. Snark*

      “I’m at BEC stage with a lot of the fed employees I work “with”- I’m a fed contractor and I can’t get anything done because no one responds to my emails, or requirements/policies change without anyone notifying me, etc. etc.”

      Yeah, there’ve been a LOT of days where I’ve just hung out and posted here because Wakeen can’t be arsed to get me a project spec sooner than 5 days after I ask for it or Jane is taking her sweet-ass time reviewing something or Fergus is on leave for five weeks and didn’t put anything on the shared drive and left basically every loose end flapping….

    1. beanie beans*

      I believe it usually involves:
      1 – Criminal record
      2 – Confirming employment at your past jobs
      3 – Sometimes can also include confirming places you lived (I’ve had this one on but not on another)

    2. N.J.*

      I’ve also seen credit checks, driving record checks and verification of educational degrees received.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes. Some applications even have a box where you can check you want to be notified if your credit card history is checked. I was surprised when a grocery store checked my credit when I applied to be a cashier.

    3. Anonymous1*

      If it is a very large organization (VERY large), what is most common for background checks?

      1. Cloud Nine Sandra*

        For my very large organization, they needed fingerprints, a drug test, check for convictions, etc, and verifying all work history and previous places I’d lived.

  104. Networking Hopeful*

    Networking Question!

    I’m a marketing specialist & designer, and I want to eventually work for an advertising agency. I’m about a year into my career but interned for agencies in college. The problem is, I would have to work remotely because I live in the Middle of Nowhere and can’t relocate. There is an agency in Big City (3 hours away) that would be my absolute top choice to work at, but I’m not sure if they ever hire remotely.

    My fiance owns a business in the industry that Big Ad Agency works with, and spoke to the agency VP at a conference yesterday. She asked who does their marketing and he told her about me, and he said she was very interested in a community event that his business put on that I did all the design and marketing for. He gave her his card because he’s supposed to fill out some survey about her presentation.

    My question is, is there any non-weird way for me to reach out and use this as a connection? I’m thinking about reaching out to her via LinkedIn and saying my fiance was excited to tell me about her presentation and mentioned that he spoke to her about the Community Event, and asking if she would mind giving me advice on a specific roadblock I ran into while marketing this event. It’s a problem I would genuinely love to get input on, even if it doesn’t lead to anything else. I’m also hoping that at the end of our conversation, I could say something along the lines of “I’ve been following your agency for a long time now and have been nothing but impressed with your work. I’ve seen a few job openings come up that I would have loved to apply for, but due to my location I wouldn’t be able to be in the office. I was wondering if your company ever allows employees to work remotely or works with freelancers?”

    To be honest, I’m clueless about networking. This would be my first time really reaching out to someone like this, so I’m not sure if I’m going about this the right way or if this is way too far-fetched of a connection to use. This is probably my only chance of making a connection at this agency so I’m really hoping to make this work.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I think in this case it would be fine to reach out via LinkedIn or email and mention the event and how you heard about her. I also think it would be fine to inquire if their agency ever hires remote and/or freelance workers or would consider it as an option. It’s not “weird” at all to inquire about either thing, but do be mindful of her time.

      You’re right, it might not amount to anything… or it might get you a more formal interview. Who knows, they might do a lot of business out your way and would be grateful of a local contact who could handle some of the work out there. In this industry, it does tend to be more open for remote workers.
      Good luck!

      1. Networking Hopeful*

        Thanks for your response! I guess I was just nervous about the connection being a little weird. It would be different if I had been the one to meet her, but I wasn’t sure about the connection being through my fiance. I think I’m going to reach out to her next week!

  105. Emi.*

    Do I have to sit like a lady at work? I would really like to kick off my pumps and sit cross-legged (and/or stretch my legs as I type). My desk is positioned so no one can see me unless they come in to talk to me, and in most cases they’re talking to me and my office mate from a position where I have to come out of my cave to be seen anyway, but I can’t guarantee that no one would surprise me with my shoes off and my feet on my chair. My office is pretty much business casual, FWIW, and clients never come in my office.

    1. eLizWM*

      Not client facing? Go for it.
      No weirder than a balance ball.
      I have a stand up desk and take off my heels when I’m going to be there longer than a couple minutes. Folks know to give me a second to find the things and put them back on.

    2. KR*

      I think as long as you aren’t wearing a skirt and flashing everyone you can sit however you like! I sit in some word positions. If someone comes to talk to me, I sit up straight so I look like I’m giving them my full attention.

  106. fundraiserfran*

    I’m interviewing for a major gifts position at a large university next week. What kinds of questions should I be prepared for and what kinds of things should I be able to discuss in detail?

    1. J*

      Have you done major gift work before? I ask in order to gauge whether you need baseline questions, or if you have those handled.

      1. fundraiserfran*

        I have, but in a much smaller organization and in a much different capacity. A piece of feedback that I got from the first interview was that I needed to go into more detail with my answers and provide more numbers as well.

        1. J*

          Talk about the prospects you’ve worked with, what size gifts you have experience in soliciting. Be able to talk about taking a prospect from identification through to stewardship of the gift.

          Do you have experience in establishing your own prospect pool, or did someone else assign them to you? How much time did you spend on the road? Calls and visits per month? (And do you want more time on the road, or less? How much do they expect you to be out of the office in this organization?)

          What kind of research support are you going to get? What are their funding priorities at present? How closely will you work with planned giving and/or annual giving? (Do they expect you to include the annual gift ask in your major gift ask? It’s a best practice, but not everyone does it.)

          That’s not exhaustive, but hopefully it jumpstarts your brainstorming. Good luck!

  107. Myrin*

    Dear lord, it was a holiday here on Tuesday, meaning I had to work at my part-time job at a family-run inn/restaurant. I’ve had some pretty stressful days in my time there but holy crap, I’ve never experienced something like this. People were coming in droves and ordering and ordering and ordering more and it was only me and Chef Boss in the kitchen and only Waiter Boss and their son in service and the four of us had to do the work of about seven or eight people. It was completely unexpected for all of us – I’ve worked this holiday the last two years as well and I can’t even remember them because they were so unremarkable – and in the end, I had to stay three hours longer than usual. It was horrid but I do have to say that wow, now that I’ve experienced and survived this, there can’t be much in the future that I won’t be able to handle. But geez.

  108. thutacap*

    Does anyone else get lots of pop-ups when accessing this site from a phone? I use Chrome & have pop-ups blocked, but I keep getting stupid gift card pop-ups. Very annoying.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Yes, there are some ads that completely take over the phone. It’s the one saying your iPhone has been chosen. Very annoying, you have to completely quit out.

  110. KTM*

    I’m going to work on posting the raw data, but just wanted to share with everyone that I did a bit of a summary and stats on the ‘what does your commute look like’ two weeks ago in the open thread. I’ll link to an image in the post below and follow up later after I’m out of all my meetings! Enjoy!

  111. BMO*

    Two of my previous supervisors recently lost a parent. I sent them sympathy cards. We don’t work in the same office, so I mailed them the cards. I’ll run into them in a few months at our quarterly meetings. If they acknowledge receiving the card and say thank you, do I just say “you’re welcome”? At that point, 3-4 months will have passed since their parent’s passing.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I would just say something like “I was so sorry to hear of your loss, I hope things are ok” or some such, but not elaborate too much.

    2. Snark*

      Honestly, after that long, I’d let them take the lead on bringing it up. If they do thank you, I’d keep it brief, and not say you’re welcome – “Of course. I was so sorry to hear of your loss, and I hope you’re doing well.”

  112. resume dummy*

    resume formatting-

    I was recently informed by a friend that she’s getting more interview invites since she updated her resume and added color. Now I’m confused. Is this not something every career book pretty much advises against? I’m not currently looking, but in the past I had maybe 1 invite for every 50 resumes I sent out, and I thought my resume was pretty professional-looking with all my relevant qualifications on it.

    2. KR*

      I don’t think a ton of color is advisable but a colored page break on the top or a tasteful touch of color sounds like it would look nice.

    3. Overeducated*

      I’ve seen resumes from recent interns using colored headings, and I use one at the top. It’s not extreme, usually just dark blue or dark red. Can’t imagine it makes a huge difference in call back rates, though.

    5. who?*

      I think a lot of this depends on the field – for example I’m in marketing and design. Also, sometimes a small touch of color no matter the field is nice and helps you stand out a little. Even in a creative field I keep mine minimal, but it is more color than most people probably use. Mine has my name, headings, and divider lines in a color. It sounds like a lot but the color is dark and subdued so it remains professional and easy to read, not flashy or distracting.

      All that said, I have no idea how or if this impacts call back rates.

  113. SQL Coder Cat*

    Anyone else in the path of the eclipse on Monday? How is your workplace handling it?

    I’m in Portland, Oregon (99% totality)- and unfortunately, we have very few good roads for getting across town. They have basically issued a state of emergency warning for the day- avoid unnecessary travel, carry food and water even if only traveling a short distance, etc. There have been eclipse related traffic jams since Wednesday. My university was specifically asked by ODOT to delay new student move in from Monday to Wednesday, and they’ve actually decided to close the entire campus for Monday and Tuesday!

    On the one hand, the two bonus (paid, even!) days off is nice. On the other, losing two days from move in week is going to make the rest of next week insane.

    1. KR*

      We are in solar so there is a huge to-do about managing the solar fields during the eclipse. Basically we want to lose as little money as possible while the sun is hidden so people have to be ready at the controls to ramp down the power for the fields during the eclipse.

    3. Becky*

      I live just a few hours south of the optimal viewing area (my area will get about 90% totality) and everybody is passing through my area to get to the 100% zones. I am planning to avoid going north bound on the highway at all this weekend and avoid south bound on Monday.

      A number of people have taken off work to go north for the eclipse but since we are a little farther away the bigger concern is the highway, not local traffic.

      I however will be taking a break to watch the eclipse! I suspect most people in my office will. I haven’t been able to find my eclipse viewing glasses that I used for the 2012 annular eclipse (I thought I still had them…) so I’ll rig up a pin-hole viewer.

    4. EddieSherbert*

      Our area will supposedly have the sun like 85% covered, which apparently is enough for eclipse glasses to be popular, but not enough for it to effect traffic or work or anything :)

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      We’re a few hours east and northeast of the path of totality. My office is throwing a party and giving us glasses, SO’s invited. No one will be doing anything that day! They’re expecting a whole lot of traffic as people leave and come back into town.

      I’m already being super annoying about people being on the road during the eclipse. I know there will be quite a few dumbasses who want to watch while driving.

    6. Becky*

      I found this fascinating article with maps. There’s a guy who made maps showing the closest eclipse location for every county in the US and then calculated the number of people for whom each location in the totality zone is closest. Santee, South Carolina (or where I-95 meets the path of the eclipse) is the closest location for 75 million Americans.

      I live along the route of the #2 spot which is only the closest for 35 million people.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/solar-eclipse-car-traffic-travel-delay-maps-2017-8/#1-santee-south-carolina-746-million-people-in-range-14

    7. Elizabeth West*

      My city will be in 96% totality, but I will be in 100% at my mum’s house. I know they cancelled school over there, but I’m not sure about here. They’re expecting loads of traffic and it’s going to be crazy.

      Two of my European friends are going to be in the area especially for this and they wanted to get together, so I just invited them to come down and watch with us. I hope they make it and don’t get stuck in traffic. I tried to practice with my filters and tripod today (I only have a point-and-shoot and a smartphone, so expect nothing spectacular in terms of pics), but the stupid clouds were being jerks. It is NOT normally this cloudy here in August–I think it’s just messing with us.

    8. Chaordic One*

      My office is closing down for half an hour before-hand and half an hour afterwards. Unless it rains we’ll all be outside looking at it. It promises to be a party-like atmosphere.

      They’re planning a block party with numerous downtown streets blocked off and detours around those, so it might be a bit of a mess. Coming back from work today there were many more RVs and cars with out-of-state license plates than usual, so maybe it will be a big deal after all.

    9. New Bee*

      Not in the path of the eclipse but I work at an elementary school and we are having indoor recess in the morning (because if you tell children “Don’t look at the sun”, they will do just that).

  114. Annie*

    A bunch of people in the company have jumped ship in the last few months due to huge changes after an acquisition. I am considering leaving, but also have the potential to move into a higher position since everyone seems to be leaving. The guy in charge of this branch has told me outright that with everyone leaving, he feels people are being unethical by trying to find new jobs on work time (using sick leave, leaving early, etc.). I don’t have any more PTO this year, but I’ve been interviewing here and there when I see opportunities I may be interested in. I’ve only called in sick once for an interview, but other than that I have done any job-search activities on my own time (after work, lunch hour, etc.). He says that employees should tell their recruiters that they can only interview on the weekend. I’m wondering what people think about job searching while still employed, and the ethics of taking sick leave when you have to interview off-site.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      “employees should tell their recruiters that they can only interview on the weekend”

      What! That’s unheard of and just not the way it operates. I agree, you should keep your job search activities confined to your personal computer and phone and NOT be applying on work time. But there is simply no other way to interview than to take off work to do so. As US PTO time is skimpy, yes this often means calling in sick or taking vacation day, even if you do try to schedule your interviews early in the day.

    2. Snark*

      Sick and vacation time is part of your compensation package and it’s 100% not in any way company time or work time. And it’s bonkers to suggest people only interview on the weekend.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Is this jerk willing to come in on the weekends to interview candidates for HIS open positions?

      Didn’t think so.

      1. Annie*

        Yeah, he doesn’t come in on the weekends for any of the hiring. In fact, if someone were to have to come in on a Saturday…it would end up being me.

  115. NLMC*

    Question for working moms, especially if you have recently returned to your job after maternity leave. I recently read a few articles about companies offering a returning mom’s mentor group. Pairing up a new mom with an “experienced” mom who can help them navigate the issues unique to working moms. I have pitched a similiar idea to the program’s team at my job.
    I have an almost 2 year old so I’m not too far removed from the situation, but I’m just looking for input from anyone who has been part of something like this or has ideas about making a program like this successful.

    1. KR*

      This sounds like a super good idea ! Disclaimer, not a mom to a human child but if I was one I would love something like this.

  116. De Minimis*

    I’m probably going to put my job search on hiatus soon. There is one good opportunity in my local county government that I may try for, but that will probably be it till next year. We’re thinking about relocating [again] after our lease is up.

    I’m starting to feel really pigeonholed in the government/nonprofit accounting field at this point, and I’m thinking I can probably forget about any kind of private sector job from now on.

  117. Junior Dev*

    Should I tell my boss about my depression? Is it ok to lie about having a cold as an excuse to work from home when I just can’t handle people? If not, what should I say instead?

    1. KR*

      I was having a lot of anxiety issues in my old job. It was causing me to get some serious inertia whenever I tried to get ready in the morning and go to work, so
      I would be late a lot or wake up and realize I couldn’t make myself go to work that day. I was pretty friendly with my boss so I told him something along the lines of, “I suffer from anxiety. I’m doing my best to manage it, but sometimes I wake up in the morning and I can’t force myself to get to work because I’m too anxious. I know it’s an issue and I’m doing my best, but I wanted to give you could context as to why I’m late or call out last minute sometimes.” He was pretty understanding about it. I think you could do something like this to your boss, and it’s also important because you may be able to classify your bad mental health days as intermittent FMLA leave which would be protected if your company has more than 100(?) employees. Are you able to work but just can’t make it out of the house or interact? Your boss may be willing to let you work from home too.

      1. Junior Dev*

        I asked about working from home, not days off, so I’m not sure how this comment applies to what I said.

        Also, I’ve been at my job less than a year which I think means I’m not eligible for FMLA.

    3. only acting normal*

      If asking to work from home because you’re feeling “a bit unwell” or “off colour” is going to be acceptable, then you could keep it vague without lying. They don’t need to know the colour is blue not green. ;-)
      How they’d take full disclosure depends entirely on the boss (and to a lesser extent the organisation). Do you get the impression they’ll be as understanding about mental illness as about physical illness?

      I was keeping it vague until my boss kept pressuring me to go for promotion despite me saying no repeatedly (the beast!). I think he thought it was some kind of lack of confidence or something, and that he was being encouraging. I eventually chose to disclose that chronic depression is my limiting factor, not my intellectual potential to do the next-job-up. He’s been fine about it, and backed way off with the pressure.

      On the other hand I’ve frequently used “migraine” (which I do get) as a publicly acceptable code for “crippling period pain” in a very male office. I figure it’s just like a migraine, just in my abdomen rather than my skull.

      Good luck.

      2. Junior Dev*

        I’m not sure but I think the written policy for the company is stricter than what my boss allows. He’s historically been ok with people working from home for pretty much any reason.

        The problem is that 1) generally people disclose the reason to the team as a whole and 2) I don’t know if boss’s attitude towards depression is “mental health is health, do what you need to take care of yourself” or “quit whining and suck it up, everyone feels sad sometimes.” I’m scared to ask.

        What would you recommend I say next time this happens?

        1. fposte*

          How often is it happening, and how much do people generally take?

          I like only acting normal’s phraseologies of “under the weather” type stuff; my concern would be if there’s a frequency of being “under the weather” that’s going to raise any questions. If this is once a week, it’s probably going to be an issue, and I think it makes sense to get ahead of it with your boss; if it’s once every three months, I think it’ll probably pass unnoticed in the workplace you describe. If it’s in between, you have to make a judgment call.

          Be aware that depression can be (isn’t automatically, but can be) an ADA qualifying condition and that WFH can be a reasonable accommodation. Obviously it’s easier if you don’t have to go there, but that kicks in before FMLA is relevant.

          1. Junior Dev*

            Probably closer to once a month or so. I’ll probably say something like “I’m starting to feel sick” next time it happens.

            In addition to depression I also have PTSD, I don’t know if it is easier to get accommodations for that.

            1. fposte*

              I don’t think the actual nature of the disorder matters that much from an ADA standpoint; it’s about your individual condition. That said, I think, because of popular perception, working at home for PTSD issues is going to be understood more quickly than working at home for depression, so I might lead with that if I were disclosing. The one thing I’d try to avoid is disclosing PTSD and only PTSD now and then asking for accommodations under the ADA for only depression later, because it feels a little bait-and-switchy–if you think you’ll want to officially seek accommodation it might be good to know if your healthcare folks would back you on seeking it under either or both.

              Once a month doesn’t seem like a lot to me but we’re pretty free on WFH; if that’s a fairly average number at your workplace I wouldn’t feel pressed to disclose.

        2. only acting normal*

          When other people disclose why they’re staying home, how much detail are they giving? All the gory symptoms, or “I’m sick/I think I’m coming down with something, so I’m working at home to fight it off/avoid spreading it”?
          And remember, you’re still working, just not in the office. If your boss is enlightened enough to understand working from home *is* working, then use that to your benefit.
          Until you can feel out their attitude to mental ill health (I wouldn’t ask directly just in case it’s not good), just keep it non-specific.

          PS I hate the false dichotomy between mental and physical illness – coming down with a depressive episode feels exactly like coming down with ‘flu, until the symptoms resolve into one or the other: it is most definitely a physical illness.

  118. KR*

    Wow, this thread filled up fast. Just a happy post saying that my manager is awesome and so are my coworkers. I was feeling really overwhelmed and hopeless and my manager gave me a pep talk and sat down with my to do list and talked me through it, pointing out what my priorities should be and that my list was totally doable. I really love my industry (I work in renewable energy) and I love where I work, and I feel refreshed and ready to take on the day. Hope everyone else is having a good Friday.

  119. Late Anon*

    Quick question for those who are in project-based jobs and produce a high volume of work. I’m an in-house designer with a small team of interns. We’re pretty understaffed, which my manager acknowledges, we need at least another FT designer. The problem is we do tend to miss a fair amount of deadlines, which I will totally admit! I just think that my manager is being a little unreasonable about what’s attainable. She made several comments in my annual evaluation about it so I took the time this morning to calculate our exact “on-time” rate. On paper it’s 70% on time in the last year, missing 30% of deadlines. But when I subtract projects where there were good reasons (external forces beyond our control, even with constant communication), our on-time rate jumps up to 80%.

    That seems pretty great to me considering I regularly work 50-60 hours and feel like I’m drowning most of the time– which I’ve expressed! There was only one project where missing the deadline meant the project didn’t deliver on time overall (i.e., didn’t get done for an event). Our interns aren’t in every day and they accounted for 50% of the late projects (so I’ll often speak with the internal client about moving the deadline to allow the intern to finish, normally it’s not a problem, but admittedly I don’t do a great job of updating the deadline).

    BUT– that having been said– just curious if others track that information or if other managers out there think that the 70/80% is indeed unacceptable considering our situation. I have other issues with my manager and she’s known for being difficult, but this is something that I really want to tackle. I’m planning on scheduling a meeting with her to look over my numbers and ask her what percentage she think WOULD be acceptable so that I have a tangible target to work toward.

    1. My Cat Posted This For Me*

      I just posted a way too long question below that overlaps this, so felt I must weigh in! I do similar work and have similar issues.

      One thing I do is try to get ahead of the problem. I’ve received good evaluations despite having a pile of unfinished and late work, by proactively and relentlessly talking about our lack of resources. I even went to my grandboss and great grandboss (head of unit) to politely and with pieces of paper and good reasons advocate for more staff. And when our assistant quit and they didn’t replace her for a full year(!) at one point when I had to cut it really, really close to deadline to get something to great grandboss, and later he said, “next time I need it sooner than that” I politely said, “yeah, I agree, this is what it’s like without having an assistant anymore” and I could see that I’d made my point. I am willing to go there, with a polite and respectful tone.

      As part of that, I would keep checking fairly relentlessly with your supervisor. “Oh, project X just arrived and will take 20 hours and the interns are only here for five hours between now and the deadline. How should I prioritize?” Make this an organizational problem, not your problem.

      Another tactic that worked with clients back when I was freelancing was to say yes to unrealistic things if I was sure that the client wouldn’t be able to hold up their side of it. Clients loved to come to me and ask for, say, a 30-day annual report turnaround. I’d say sure, I can meet that deadline if you can, and then set up the project timeline, which would of course start with work for the client, like line up the people you want me to interview, send me the photos from your archive, etc. People who were pulling this kind of insane turnaround request NEVER made their part of it and the deadline would just sort of melt away without fuss. This may not work in your circumstances but it’s something to keep in mind. If it works for you, then document when clients don’t meet their deadlines, and firmly change the final project deadline accordingly. Do not be responsible for clients failing to make their deliverables. It’s understandable when they can’t, but it should not be allowed to reflect badly on you.

      Also, when it was time for my evaluation, I worked the hell out of it. I had kept notes all year about my accomplishments. I kept copies of complimentary emails and quoted them. I did tallies of how much I’d produced, because I may not be making all the deadlines or getting everything done, but I did take 6,000 photographs, shot 4 hours of video footage, wrote 30 articles, etc., etc. I framed things in the positive, not “I didn’t get this done,” but “despite being under-resourced I was able to accomplish all these things, including new things, and was told by one long-time staffer that the work was the best she’d seen here.”

      Hope some of this helps!

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        “Another tactic that worked with clients back when I was freelancing was to say yes to unrealistic things if I was sure that the client wouldn’t be able to hold up their side of it. ”

        Yep. We do this in advertising all the time. It shocked me the first couple of years I was in the business — why on earth would we promise something we knew we couldn’t possibly deliver? Eventually I realized that clients hate being told no by you, the vendor. They’re much happier with you when you tell them yes and it’s their own internal dysfunction that gets in the way of having the work done on time.

        1. My Cat Posted This For Me*

          Ha! Thanks for sharing. Nice glimpse into the rest of the industry—as a freelancer I was making things up as I went along and it feels good to know I was plugging into some universal truths. :)

      2. Late Anon*

        Thank you! It does. Our evaluations start with a self-evaluation, and I have a lot of notes regarding the increase in work that we’ve achieved– as a team we’ve managed to complete >100 more projects than last year despite being understaffed! Me and my interns are doing about 3x as much work as a couple years ago. I was a little deflated that her response was that she was glad we’d accomplished that but missed deadlines made my overall performance less than satisfactory. It’s frustrating because my manager is the only one that is allowed to turn away projects and… she has never done that in the years I’ve been here. I’m in the early stages of job searching but I’d like a more peaceful relationship with my manager in the meantime!

        Re prioritization: That’s a huge issue in my relationship with her. That was advice that I’d gotten from colleagues in past years, so I started explicitly asking just like that and I’d get some really agitated responses about how it was “my job” to figure that out. Umm… what? The one good thing that came out of me doing that was that she allowed me to adjust client deadlines but now we have an issue where she doesn’t trust my assessment. So that’s the “difficult” I alluded to earlier.

        But that bitterness aside, the unrealistic client deadlines are VERY much a thing and that happens a lot, especially with the large projects like you said, particularly because all of our project deadlines are set by the client. My manager requires they include a deadline. I mentioned below that I’m going to work on doing a better job of actively setting new deadlines in those cases because it’s frustrating for it to reflect poorly on me, like you said. One thing I do recognize is that if I’m told by a client that their deadline is flexible (i.e. “We’d like this flyer redesigned but we’re happy enough with what we have now”) I’m laid back enough that I’m not bothered when we do occasionally pass the deadline. My manager *definitely* is not okay with that, so for the sake of maintaining peace I’m willing to be much more proactive about it!

    2. Jillociraptor*

      Can you say more about what you mean by “missed deadlines”? Does this include revising the deadline and then delivering in time? Or is it just times when you said you’d get the product to people by August 1, and then August 1 comes and goes without the product (or a revised deadline after the fact)?

      If you need to revise deadlines 30% of the time, I’d still say there’s an issue with how timelines are getting set in your organization, even if I wouldn’t really count that against you as “missing the deadline.” Who sets deadlines and timelines in your department? Who has the authority to revise them? It sounds like your org needs to set an expectation of a longer runway with your clients, and probably develop a more robust mechanism to prioritize the different projects.

      If the issue is that you’re actually just blowing by deadlines without re-negotiating the timeline or alerting the client, 30% would be unacceptable to me. I would understand if this happened maybe once or twice a year with a really thorny project, but it really shouldn’t be happening on almost one in three engagements. I would expect someone in your position to be working with the client on benchmarks and letting them know well in advance if something is getting in the way of the timeline you agreed on.

      Can you also say a bit more about what the external forces outside of your control are? In my communications team, the biggest one here is the client :) but outside of that, I’d just check to make sure there aren’t opportunities for influence. If it’s a supplier problem, you may need to suggest changing the supplier. If it’s another team, re-define your processes so they’re not holding you up. “Totally beyond our control” to me signifies things like: a tornado took out the power and we literally couldn’t work, or four team members got food poisoning at the same time and we could only finish the #1 priority item. If it’s things other than that, there’s almost definitely things you can do to improve the issue even if it doesn’t fully solve the problem.

      Good luck. It sounds like you are really overworked and doing the best you can with limited resources, so I don’t want this to come off as cold or blaming you! But I’ve definitely been in your position, and the most powerful thing I learned was that I actually have a lot more power over the situation than I thought. That was what helped me through. I hope your department is able to either get more capacity or better expectations very soon!

      1. Late Anon*

        No worries– didn’t come across as cold at all! I didn’t explicitly say this and it was partially because I think I’ve forgotten how dysfunctional this is– our deadlines are set by the client (we work exclusively for other departments within the org). So the 30% is me missing the client-set deadline. That is a huge part of the problem that was clarified just in reading your comment. It’s compounded by the fact that I have been verbally told I can adjust deadlines after conversations with the client but my manager doesn’t trust my decision making in that area so I try really hard to always honor client deadlines to avoid drama (hence the overtime!). So I will bring that up again in my meeting with her to try to understand what’s going on there because our clients have no idea what our overall workload is when they set deadlines!

        Ah, yeah so by the “external forces out of my control” I simply meant that I will deliver a completed first draft well in advance of the deadline but, even with constant check-ins, won’t get feedback from the client that allows me to finish the project until after the initial client deadline. I have one particularly annoying client that will not return calls or emails but will respond to the original email with the draft like three weeks after the deadline as though I hadn’t been trying to get in touch with them. At least my manager is understanding about that person.

        That is where I want to focus on being more proactive about getting new deadlines, provided that my manager trusts me, because often I will get “not everyone has had a chance to see it yet, but don’t worry we have plenty of time” which, okay, but we’re past your deadline so what date are we working toward now? Historically it’s never bothered me much to be past the deadline in those cases because I’m being told by the client that it’s fine, but my manager has a much more black and white view about deadlines!

    3. K*

      Put prioritizing back on your boss. I have x hours in a week and here are the options for what I can accomplish within that timeframe. What do you want me to do?

  120. Over educated*

    Just got an invitation to interview for a job on a day I’m in another city for a 3 day conference. Sigh…

    They did give me the option of Skype, so I’m not sure whether I should ask to do it on Skype over a lunch break in my hotel room (assuming that’s around noon, schedule is not up yet), or just ask if we can do it another time. It’s in a city where I’m interested in relocating due to family, so if it were another Friday or Monday I could probably even make a long weekend out of it.

    1. Emi.*

      Would you have a reliable connection to Skype over? I have literally never gotten a steady connection in a hotel.

      1. Overeducated*

        Yeah that’s the concern. I wrote back asking if they could do another day but that I could inquire about the break schedule and Internet access at the venue if not. The HR person in checking on alternate dates….

        1. Wheezy Weasel*

          Are you working the conference, presenting or just attending? As an attendee, I duck in and out sessions a lot even when other members of my org are there, so that wouldn’t raise any eyebrows to do an hour in my own room on a Skype call.

          Sometimes the ‘paid’ internet in a hotel is better than the free, but I’m sure this is a universal truth. Given enough time, you could contact the hotel and find out their internet service provider and call them to see if they can guarantee a bandwidth. Larger in-house hotels have their own staff who handles internet and audiovisual and they might be able to work out a special access code that puts your traffic on a dedicated line.

          If you’ve got a cell phone with a strong signal and a 4G data plan, you could tether your laptop, or just use your phone as the Skype device.

  121. Weight Loss Contest Drama*

    So I’m the chair of the fun committee at work. Recently another member of the committee sent us a literally 12 page treatise the HR intern made about why we should have a weight loss contest. It included “that all employees lose weight” as a goal of the contest. I have a history of disordered eating, but in general I thought it was inappropriate on many levels. I sent an email to the committee (not including the intern) saying hard pass, because of its impact on people with body issues, the fact that employer based initiatives like this don’t even work, and that it violates what I believe to be important boundaries between employer and employee. It was firm but necessary imo.

    Anyway, the vice chair of the group (who btw is a man and I’m a woman) literally spent 15 minutes on Lync just now lecturing me about my tone in the email. I refused to apologize, because what is the point of me being chair of this voluntary thing If I can’t put the kibosh on stuff I believe to be truly harmful? Anyway, I’m pissed now lol.

    1. Emi.*

      Yeah no, that’s ridiculous. If I were in your place, I would probably tell him “I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way,” which would be true, but makes him look (more) rude if he keeps it up.

    2. Snark*

      Yeah, that guy can pound it. The most civil reply I can think of is, “My tone was not intended to be disproportionately harsh, but I feel very strongly that this proposal is inappopriate for us to pursue. I hope you can come to understand and respect my reasons for not considering it, even if you ultimately disagree.”

      And don’t apologize.

    3. Beancounter Eric*

      Permanent solution to the issue – end the “fun” committee.
      Seriously.
      Abolish it, today.
      People are at work to, well, work. Fun is incidental.
      Fun is also in the eyes of the beholder. Too many of the “fun” events companies do aren’t.
      If people wish to socialize after work, they will.
      There are a lot of people who don’t care to socialize with coworkers, and who find work-related “fun” tedious at best.

      p.s. – What I suggest for your HR Intern involves tar and feathers.

    5. HannahS*

      It was a terrible suggestion and you’re right. It’s important for (omg) an HR intern to know how far off-base they were.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      “No, Boss, I will not apologize for saying the company cannot tell people they have to lose weight. I will stand by that one. I will not apologize for the way I stated it because I was responding to a highly offensive idea. If anything the person driving that idea should apologize for delving into people’s private matters.”

      I only push back this hard on something when I know I am right, do not push this hard if you are a) not comfy and b) not 1000% sure of your position on the topic. In other words, use this tactic very rarely.

  122. Argh!*

    Grandboss got ticked off at something I did, called me to his office, reamed me out, told me what I was thinking (which was not even close to reality), then had his witness/secretary email me a summary… all without my boss being involved in any way. She wasn’t even cc’d on the summary.

    It was such a minor thing, I had no qualms saying “Okay I’ll do things differently now,” and yet grandboss kept talking and scolding. I told him what I really *was* thinking (completely different from his assumption) and he just didn’t seem to care about it. I offered to fix my mistake right away and he blew off my offer. (If it’s such a big deal that I get hauled into the office for it, shouldn’t I address it and fix it? I don’t get it)

    I don’t know why he kept talking so long. I said “okay,” “agreed,” “yes” and “that’s fine” many times. It was like he was scolding a child and he wasn’t going to be finished until he’d vented his anger completely. I was shocked.

    In our workplace nobody ever apologizes for anything — never ever ever, so it didn’t even occur to me to apologize (considering it didn’t really impact work I wasn’t sure what I should have apologized *for* anyway). Grandboss didn’t apologize for attributing malicious intentions to my brain, so it’s not like an example was being set. He didn’t demand an apology, either. I just don’t know why he kept talking after everything was settled. He has more important things to do.

    Anywho…. I now have less respect for both my boss and grandboss, which I didn’t think was possible. Our HR department knows our area is messed up but they seem powerless to straighten things out.

    1. Emi.*

      Well, it sounds like your grandboss is a bit of a jerk (or having a bad day and taking it out on you … like a jerk), but I don’t see why you respect your boss less because of this? It sounds from this like s/he wasn’t involved and probably didn’t even know about it. Have you talked to him/her about this?

        1. Emi.*

          Sure, but only if s/he had the chance to. If the grandboss just heard about whatever it was and then immediately called me to his office, I don’t see how the boss would’ve been able to step in.

          1. Argh!*

            That’s part of what’s puzzling to me — time wasn’t a factor. It could be said at any time, like my next check-in meeting with my boss. When I offered to fix the mistake right there on the spot, he didn’t care. So what was the rush? He was acting in the heat of emotion, and his emotion seemed a bit out of line.

            And then he documented it all… like he has no idea what a jerk move it was.

            1. Emi.*

              The pointlessness is what makes me think it’s a power trip and/or he’s mad about something else and taking it out on you.

      2. Argh!*

        I respect him less because 1) it wasn’t such an important thing that he had to take time out of his day himself and 2) he was such a jerk in the way he did it. He could have sent an email. “Please don’t do X. Do Y.” It seemed a little too personal for something very simple and straight-forward.

    2. neverjaunty*

      In our workplace nobody ever apologizes for anything — never ever ever

      You kind of buried the lede there!

  123. Venus Supreme*

    Ugh. So. Work relocated physically back in June — the city is redeveloping our old building, so the move was absolutely necessary. New space means a shorter commute for me (yay!) and free parking (yay!)

    Only problem is that this building is not up to code and all 25+ employees have been working on folding tables, without phones, and no privacy. This is a stark contrast to the old building, where we were spread out over three floors and each had an office with a locking door.

    Upper management promised us this temporary setup would only last a couple weeks as our cubicles were getting set up. Our cubicles have been installed for about a month now and we still haven’t been given the OK due to codes (or so I’ve heard through the grapevine).

    Everyone is getting on everyone’s nerves. The office romantic couple is getting grosser by the day (if I have to hear her guinea pig squeal of laughter one more time…) and it seems as though we have a couple people who enjoy keeping tabs on who leaves and enters this small room. Also, our filing cabinets are not installed. I’ve been sifting through cardboard boxes to find what I need. There’s little to no organization while we’re in this transition phase.
    When we ask higher-ups when we can move, they laugh and say never… I’m going insane.

    My manager feels my frustration because she had my job before being promoted. She understands that this job requires total concentration, and for me that includes quiet. My manager and I suggested I work from home 1-2x/week, or as needed, when I have a big deadline coming up. BigBoss did not approve me working from home because she “wants me to feel included.” I call dog poo on that, honestly. Our compromise was that I bring a laptop in and find another part of the building to escape the chatter of this room. Some days this is manageable, and other days it isn’t because construction is happening in other parts of the building. We’re talking jackhammering concrete, hammering nails, drilling god-knows-what…

    I’ve been having soul-crushing migraines about once a week/once every other week. It was so debilitating on Monday that I needed to go home and sleep it off. My manager thinks my migraines are from the stresses of this place (both from loud noises and from pressing deadlines) and told me to take it easy (we’re not curing cancer here). I appreciate her concern and her acknowledging my situation.

    I’m not looking for advice, but I wanted to just vent it all out here. I miss my privacy of working and I miss not posting on here as often as I used to. Luckily today was a big vacation week for a lot of coworkers and it’s been dead — good, because I don’t feel like people from other departments are breathing down my neck! I’m really hoping we all can move into our cubicles sooner rather than later.

  124. eLizWM*

    As much as I mourn the loss of my previous boss, I now realize (sort of before she left) that she had really burned out as a manager and was not capable of helping me be the best I can be at this job. It just would have cost her too much emotional currency to go to bat for me (she was trying to get through her day without crying there at the end).

    The new boss is still finding her legs but her fresh perspective gives me hope.

  125. Pineapple Incident*

    I wrote in a few weeks ago about someone who sends me incomplete work that I have to review before it can go for further approval, and I’m looking for policy correctness. I’m happy to say that we’re in a better place- though some of the work from this person still needs edits, she is more pleasant. I’ve been working with the person above me on what to do, and he’s asked that I just cc him in on communications with her, especially if they get gruff (hasn’t been that way since I talked to him about it 3 weeks ago). We even had a sort-of nice exchange the other day- I have to admit that I’d been walling off from being positive with her because I wanted to limit interactions where I might say the wrong thing, but I’ve found that just aiming to be kind has filled in a lot of our problems.

    The other thing that’s been bothering me at work is actually someone who is new-ish, and was hired into a similar position to the person above as a contractor (so, not a full federal employee). She’s really struggling with the job, and really with a lot of things like being pleasant to the team members she’s been supervising and keeping things organized (her files, email inbox- like can’t conduct a search in Outlook and often loses notes). I’ve been training her on many occasions because of the reviewing role I have for some work products that come from her team- I feel badly that I can’t take more work off of her plate, and that I can’t push her to understand things more thoroughly. We’re getting to a point where meetings are often spent going back over information that was covered in her official training classes and previous meetings, and she frequently gets side-tracked, so not much gets done. Her official supervisor, a leading scientist in our group, is ready to pull the rip cord and fire her. Apparently she’s been given a month to work on a select set of things identified by us and her supervisor as big problems, and after that the conversation will shift if no improvement is made. I’m getting a little overwhelmed by having to explain things to her in great detail over and over, and her disorganization is starting to bleed into my work here and there; I’ve spoken to my 2 supervisors that have a hand in building her capacity and ultimately the decision to fire her if it comes to that, I’m just not sure what to do in the meantime so important things don’t fall through the cracks.

    TL;DR- One work problem is no longer really an issue, I can support killing with kindness as a solid problem-solving strategy. Any self-care strategies for dealing with the time when someone whose work your checking is probably going to get fired soon and you’re getting stressed out about it?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Find consolation in being fair and being friendly with her. This is a biggie, don’t skate by this part.

      Target improvements that will get the most bang for the buck. Let the smaller stuff slide.

      Realize that your bosses should not be telling you she will get fired. Your bosses have a hand in making matters worse here.

      Understand that not every job is for everyone. Sometimes we can get so well acquainted with our jobs, we start thinking “a chimpanzee could do this”. The reality of it is, no this is not true. No job is that simple. This is why some people do not catch on to some jobs. Picture yourself, tomorrow morning you have to go climb power poles and fix the wiring at the top of the pole. How’s that going for you? (I would be out of a job before the truck left the office.) Not every job is for everyone, somewhere out there is something that she will excel at. And we all will have to pay her to do it for us. She will find it at some point.

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        Thank you- I appreciate your advice. The thing I really struggle with is that I’m not actually that experienced at my job (started in January), and haven’t had this much autonomy with training people before. While I know I’m giving good information (there are other newbies in similar positions as this person that are now excelling at their jobs in areas where she is really not getting it), I struggle with how much to take off of her plate or let slide, because she really has to be competent at these things eventually and if I do them she’ll never get there. I still have to ask a lot of questions, but make giving updates to those asking a priority as well as checking to see if I can point someone toward a policy resource when I do find answers (this person struggles with this too).

        I can definitely see that our workflow is not simple- there are lots of interconnecting systems, and the federal policies on various things do change more frequently than we’d all like. I don’t think a chimpanzee could do our jobs- but I think the level of feedback she’s being given, like pleasantness with her team and keeping organized notes, is something I’ve seen interns receive in the past. I worry that someone who’s supposed to be in a supervisory role is being defensive about these things while saying “I don’t have the respect of my team.”

    2. tigerStripes*

      Not sure, but anyone who struggles with “being pleasant to the team members she’s been supervising” sounds like a “get rid of soon” category, even without being as incompetent as this person appears to be. Unless those team members are somehow very unpleasant people.

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        Yeah, in a meeting that my supervisor was in, this new person put her hand up to silence another woman she now supervises on the team and told her to stop talking…

        The team members this person is intended to supervise are all more than competent at their jobs, and though they’re not all perfect in every area, they are fairly independent with respect to their job tasks and ask good questions when they’re stuck somewhere. I’d have loved to see this new supervisor take after her team more, but that really hasn’t happened, and she’s actually detracting from their workflow since she complains to them about her tasks.

  126. My Cat Posted This For Me*

    Hi all—How do you deal with the emotional burden of an unrealistically high workload?

    I’m a communications director for a unit at a large public university. Some of my counterparts at comparable units have staffs of 3 or 4 people, but I’m a team of one. I’m doing all the administrative tasks, the project management, and the leadership/big picture planning. I feel like I’m constantly apologizing for not getting things done. I cannot possibly deliver all the publications needed, keep the website up to date, run the social media, write and lay out the magazine, do the e-newsletters…okay, that’s not all I do but it gives you the idea. This job is nuts.

    I’ve heavily advocated for myself and we’ve recently received some money for a second position, although the details are up in the air and it may not even be treated as a position but used for a consultant, etc. Regardless, I should be excited, but I’m just exhausted. I applied for a better-resourced position elsewhere on campus and found out last week that I didn’t get it. I didn’t mind not getting it…but the process of considering leaving my current job made me really take a hard look at it and realize at an even deeper level, OMG this is just exhausting and demoralizing. I periodically hit these lows where despite the evidence that I do a great job and process a huge amount of work, I just feel like someone else could do this job and I’m just not good enough. I guess I’m basically gaslighting myself.

    I’m a very organized person. I combine high standards and practicality. I’m good at setting reasonable goals, like making things 10-20% better as I go since I can’t possibly do major revamps of things. I am a fiend about making things more efficient so I’ve spent time with our website coders to make it easier to use the site, for example. I am super systems oriented. I have 30 years experience in my field. I taught myself to do videography this year to meet a campus requirement that we produce a video for a special project. I sent 6,000 emails in the last 12 months. I got a great evaluation this year.

    I also have ADHD, which is an amazing kind of brain to have for creative problem-solving, but which also means that I have an extra emotional burden when it comes to deadlines, prioritizing, responding to emails, etc. I am a very high-functioning person, and since being diagnosed in my late 40s and getting on medication, I’m even higher functioning. Really, I rock. And yet, I always have this shame about the things I’m not good at, and having to regularly explain why I have to say no to things, why things aren’t done, why they can’t be done today either, why even though I know it would be great to really take a fresh look at recruitment marketing but the farthest I can get is to develop a plan and can’t execute it…it just really hits that shame button. During periods like this, I begin to feel bad about myself. Like it must be me.

    I’m going to meet with a campus career counselor in a couple of weeks to see if there is a lateral move I could one day make that would allow me to keep my good salary level but be in a less stressful position. Maybe after three decades of heavy deadline work at past jobs, I’m just burned out. And/or maybe I’ll bounce back in a few weeks and recover my emotional equilibrium. I have before.

    I know I’m not the only one in this kind of situation. How do other people cope emotionally? What do you tell yourself? If you don’t have a solution but feel the same way, I’d love to hear about that too. Even if I jumped in too late today and no one responds, I feel a little better just posting this here.

    1. Kathenus*

      I’d consider reframing your thinking on this – away from how you cope emotionally and more about how you communicate to your boss realistic expectations of what you can and can’t do, and on what schedule things can get accomplished. At a past organization, a new grandboss came in who was always putting more on people’s plates. He was very reactive, as something popped into his mind he immediately wanted people to do or add that project. As with many places, everyone had pretty full workloads and it would stress people out that they were constantly given more and more.

      I got in the habit, when he would say something like – hey, I’d like you to do A and B – of responding along the lines of – sure, happy to do A and B, which project would you like me to put on the back burner for now – C or D?

      This actually worked really well, as long as I did it professionally and consistently when needed. It took a little while, but within two years he actually wrote something on one of my evaluations about being good at working with him to set clear priorities and expectations for projects.

      I know it may not be as seamless with every boss, but as long as you continue to pile all the expectations on yourself and take the brunt of the unrealistic workload, your boss has no reason to reduce it or change the priorities. Speak up for yourself, professionally but firmly, and do it consistently when the workload exceeds the capacity. Good luck.

      1. My Cat Posted This For Me*

        Thanks for the reply! I’m actually really good at this kind of tactic and totally agree. But in this job, I have work to do for constituents in four in-house “client” categories, and my supervisor is just one of them. There’s also work I do across the board, like social media or overall website content or interfacing with campus representatives. My supervisor really doesn’t understand my job very well, but I do a lot of educating with her. When it comes to a list of things she personally has assigned, I definitely ask her to prioritize. But when great grandboss wants something, a reporter is calling, a speech needs to be written for a donor event, on and on…there’s no real solution, other than advocating for increased resources, which I do. So that’s why in the meantime, I’m trying to adjust my emotional approach. During these periods when I’m down on myself, I’m not doing myself any favors. It can just be hard to get out of that state. :(

        1. Kathenus*

          Hi again, thanks for the extra information. The fact that you work for different constituents makes the situation more complicated, but it doesn’t change the fact that you will continue to be given more work than is possible to complete if you don’t find ways to push back and set realistic expectations. Maybe this can be part of educating your supervisor, and possibly your grandboss depending on the dynamics.

          But since that’s not your question, I’ll get off that soapbox and address the emotional approach aspect. What’s worked for me, sometimes, is a combination of 1) doing what I can to fix the underlying situation (in this case it would be the unrealistic expectations), and 2) regardless of the external pressures, set realistic expectations for myself, and don’t punish myself for things outside of my control.

          Maybe you aren’t successful, or totally successful, getting your workload reduced. But take the mantle of blame off your shoulders for not achieving more than is feasible to accomplish. Set goals for your self of what you can do each day, week, whatever, and then celebrate meeting your goals and doing quality work and don’t assume responsibility/blame for not being able to do everything without the right resources.

          Keep your boss(es) informed of how you’re prioritizing things so they can weigh in if they’d like a different order for what you work on. But at the end of the day you may not be able to control the workload or their expectations (although if you work hard to communicate with them on this and try to come up with a plan together to address it, maybe you can improve this situation at least somewhat), but you can set realistic expectations for you and be fair to yourself in not getting down on yourself for not achieving the impossible. Do good work, communicate clearly with your bosses, and take pride in doing your job well within your current resources of time available. You can’t expect your boss and grandboss to set realistic expectations for you if you won’t do so for yourself! Let yourself off the hook, it sounds like you are doing a great job with what you’ve got.

    2. Late Anon*

      I know it’s a full day later but in the event you come back to this I wanted to give you a shout on your post as well! You sort of mentioned this in your reply to my question but I lean *VERY* heavily on the amazing positive feedback that I get from our internal clients. I’m squeezing in a large project for a department that I don’t regularly work for and they are so excited about the work that I’m doing they’ve mentioned potentially presenting it at an industry conference! I’ve been scrambling to stay caught up with work this summer so I literally wrote that comment down to look back on over the next few weeks.

      Another thing that is huge for me: I prioritize my personal life and make sure that even during the craziest of times that I am still seeing my friends and family regularly. I had a really hard week this week, and as soon as I could tell it wasn’t going to get better I scheduled some time to visit a friend of mine that raises various animals as a hobby. It was great to catch up with her and getting to pet a bunch of animals instantly brought my stress levels right back down. Of course not everyone will enjoy animals but that kind of thing helps me get out of my “work brain.”

  127. Emily*

    I got a new job that I’m very excited about. I’m feeling even better about it because yesterday my employer, with no notice, cut our PTO. I hope that they don’t hire until I’m gone because I’m not going to have a good time talking to the next person in this role. (The previous person, who quit in a matter of weeks, kind of tried to tell me it wasn’t a good situation. I wish I’d listened.)

  128. Den*

    I preemptively want to apologize on what is essentially a whiny, woe is me post, but been having a rough, emotional morning at work, and felt it was a good time to vent what’s bothering me in the open-thread. Long read.
    So, I work full time as a computer tutor (basic Microsoft office stuff) at a for-profit college (work is work though I’m very aware of the stigma of those places) and this morning, I read a not-so-pleasant email. There are temporary monetary cuts to nearly all staffers, excluding classroom teachers and essential staff, to work 1 less unpaid day until the end of the year (so 32 hours for me instead of 40). It’s not the end of the world since I still got a job, and selfish part of me kind of likes that since I feel so distressed and tired from my job… but objectively speaking, I’m an idiot for sticking around for a couple of years in this place and I seriously should get a better, stable higher paying job… but I feel incredibly anxious about it.

    First off, I have no idea what kind of work I even want to do, and what to do with my life. So far, I’ve just been going with the flow and stayed at the job because it was familiar, and it’s slow with occasional busy moments. I feel like an idiot sticking around because there are numerous other cuts, layoffs and the temporary cut hours happened last year, though it was only 1 1/2 months that time. On top of it, there are quite a lot of other factors that is making it a lot harder for me. Here’s a list of some of the other self-obstacles:

    -Depression, very low self-esteem and inferiority complex: I do not talk highly of myself at all, and those feelings got stronger over the years. And I cannot seem to get myself to fake it enough to be confident and strong in interviews. It’s bad to the point where I actively shut down all compliments during work, from friend and family, especially over mundane things. No, I am not a computer genius on being able to change fonts, copy and pasting or saving so that upsets me to hear it.

    -I do not have any particularly noteworthy skills, certifications, talents, and so forth. I only speak English too, and I feel I fumble a lot at that too.

    -Terrible at fast-paced jobs and thinking at my feet. Had part time jobs in food service on weekends in addition to my full time, and I spaced out so much. I’ve always had physical anxiety and worry easily, yet those jobs led me to develop panic attacks.

    -Weird issues about networking: Yeah, that is ultimately the best way to get work, but I have insecurities about it. I’m a very quiet, reserved person, which is ironic given my job, but I only explain concepts, answer questions, and listen when people talk. I don’t like to use people either and I also feel like if a friend or someone helps me get work, I may not be able to help them out in return so that would bother me.

    And in addition, I do not want family to help me find work due to past experiences. My dad introduced me to a recruiter for a computer related job and told him I’m a computer genius. I met with him, quickly gave me a programming test, which…. Well, I barely know programming. I completely flunked it, and he started getting very harsh with me on wasting his time. That still scars me. Few years later, mom met a recruiter who worked a few blocks away from my job. I decided to meet her during my break. Very nice lady, but when she asked me if I know this or that, my answers kept being “No”, “No”, “Not really” etc… and can’t help me because I don’t know what I want to be doing. I cried a lot when I finished so yeah…. I’m very weary about recruiters.

    -Not a competitive person at all: I can think I’m decent enough at the job, but no, I do not think I am the best nor think I’m better than other applicants. Not in me, and hate the cutthroat nature of getting work.

    -Student loans: Those are evil, and I don’t want more added.

    -Fear of being in a worse place: I do not have a significant other. Only myself to take care to have some kind of life and enjoyment, which my current job does allow me to have. I strongly fear of being in a place that may pay a lot better, but the environment, work, and stress is soul sucking to the point where I would feel sick and/or tired to enjoy my off hours. No amount of money is worth feeling constantly miserable.

    I only got myself to blame for a lot of these peoples, and letting them manifest as much as it does. I’ve been doing therapy for two years and used to taking medications, but stopped when it didn’t work out. All this on top of just not knowing what to do for future work. The only things I feel certain I do not like doing or want to get are:
    -No constant fast-paced work: I really learned that I like slow, non-actiony, boring mundane work… which feels like an uphill battle for the hustle and bustle of NYC and getting decent paying work.

    -No sales commission/recruiting work: I am the kind of guy that HATES pushing or convincing people to get or do something. I even dislike recommending friends to a game or a movie because I do not want to impose my tastes on others and let them make their own choices.

    -Managerial work: I’d rather be in the shadows to assist someone or do my own work than to lead people and feel responsible for their lives.

    Yeah, I’m likely being real nitpicky, but its how I am feeling. In the end, it is currently not the end of the world. I still got a job, I am not in financial danger since I currently live with parents (I’m 30), but reading that email got to me very hard, and all these feelings and insecurities came flooding back. It just feels like if I got laid off or some other situation where I have to find work, then I feel completely screwed. And it’s very, very scary. I’m weak and I am a coward.

    *sighs* It certainly is an uphill battle for me.

    1. Manders*

      Oh hey, me from the past! I could seriously have written this a few years ago. I didn’t work at a for-profit college, but I was in an industry with a similarly lousy reputation and I was feeling stuck and useless. The good news is that it does get better, but that first leap out of your comfort zone into a job you’re not sure if you’ll be good at is scary as hell.

      Some ideas:

      * Do you want to learn how to code? Community colleges have cheap classes. You might even have some options to take classes at a reduced price through work.

      * If you’re technically minded but like repetitive work, have you considered some of the less glamorous fields of marketing? Nobody’s going to make a hit TV show about the SEO or UX teams, but it’s valuable work and you don’t have to be the face of a brand.

      * Do you live in an area with a lot of tech companies? Software testing can be a good fit for someone who’s both technically minded and able to explain things clearly.

      * Kind of an extreme option, but if you want to really shake your life up, how about teaching English abroad? You’ve already got the teaching skills and some programs actually prefer to recruit people who aren’t fluent in the local language. I know a lot of people who taught abroad for a few years, saved a ton of money because their housing was free, and used their income to pay down their student loans quickly.

      1. Den*

        1) Not too big on coding. I studied before as a curiosity, but I end up liking things simple and straightforward to a fault.

        2) Hmm, that’s a maybe.

        3) I live in New York, so there should be a few things available so that’s also a maybe.

        4) Yeah. That is extreme… yet I am not entirely not opposed to it. We shall see.

    2. zora*

      Are you still going to therapy?? Have you talked to your therapist about these issues? I know it gets said a lot here, but I FINALLY started therapy last year and it’s blowing my mind how many little things have changed since I did that.

      If you are still seeing a therapist, ask them if you can focus on this job issue for a few months. You are really going to have to get out of this job at some point (not immediately, but with the financial issues, it’s unlikely this job will still be there for you in 50 years), and you are going to have to feel good about yourself in order to do that! These are exactly the kind of things my therapist has been super helpful with. Sitting down, figuring out a plan, figuring out how to figure out what I want to do with my life, figuring out how to think positively about myself instead of negatively, etc. She doesn’t necessarily need to have any specific industry knowledge to help me figure out a plan, she can help me figure out where I can get any specific information I need.

      I know it feels like an uphill battle, but all the cliches are really true: if you take one little step at a time, you will eventually get up that hill! It’s great that you took the step of coming here to ask for help, that is huge! Please keep asking for help, your therapist, or if that isn’t helping you, look for a new therapist who will help you. This is something that CAN get better, but keep reaching out for help, you don’t have to do this on your own!

      1. Den*

        Yeah, I still go to mine, and I did bring up the job issue and concerns, but sadly, has not been working out too well. Nearly every session, something greatly bothers me between weeks or something else distresses me so it becomes difficulty me focusing on one thing. If one thing doesn’t bother me or get me down, it is something else so that adds to the hurdle. Feels like I take a step forward, but then I take 3 steps back and regress. It’s a mess to say the least.

        1. zora*

          Ugh, I’m sorry!!! I know that feeling, too, it’s so hard when there’s always something else coming up. That is the worst. I often feel like I’m 1 step forward, 2 steps back, too, it is such a struggle.

          Could you add extra sessions with your therapist for a little while? Or does work have an EAP that would let you add some sessions with another counselor so that you can set aside some time to talk about the job stuff?

          I’m really sorry you are dealing with this, and I really hope you feel better soon.

    3. Birdbrain*

      Oh man, I could have written 90% of this comment. You’ve received great advice already, but for what it’s worth:

      -What are you interested in outside work? Can you volunteer somewhere related to that? It probably won’t directly connect to job decisions, but it would be good for confidence-building in a low-stress setting, and you would get a wider range of experiences and meet people who may be involved in jobs that you hadn’t considered.

      -Does your public library host career workshops? I don’t know about NYC, but I have seen resume/cover letter sessions, job fairs and “what you need to know about working in Teapot Design” sessions at my local library.

      I’m seconding the suggestion to work on this with your therapist. You might have to make it a priority in your sessions even if other things come up, because it sounds like it’s making you miserable and that could be affecting you in other areas too. Good luck!

      1. Den*

        1)Not really interested in very volunteer work for personal reasons.

        2) I believe so and am at least aware of a few job fairs. I certainly have extra time available to use. Too easy to be lazy on that time, which is part of the struggle haha.

        Unless something even bigger happens somehow, I’ll bring it up for my therapy session next week.

    4. Zip Zap*

      Hey! I was in a similar place a decade ago. Not exactly the same, but there are similarities.

      You sound really nice. Don’t take that for granted. You come across as someone who I would want to work with. Being humble and not competitive is a positive thing in many workplaces. It’s called being a (agh the jargon) “team player”. I know, yucky term, but it is something employers tend to look for.

      My advice is to start taking action. Do something to improve your situation every day even if it’s a small thing. Learn new skills. Things you enjoy. If it doesn’t seem to be working, set it aside and try something else. Consider volunteering as a way to network, build your resume, and explore career options. When it comes to networking, remember that a lot of people find it awkward. Socializing awkwardly is better than not socializing. And you could be making a better impression than you realize. Staying busy might help with the anxiety and depression too.

      And look at other things in your life. Is there anything you could do to improve your overall health, like eating a healthier diet or getting more exercise? That stuff can make a big difference.

      Best of luck!

    5. Apollo Warbucks*

      I’m sorry you’re having such a tough time at the moment, I had a thought about possible jobs you could look into and that’s internal training for companies a couple of places I’ve worked have had in house trainers to teach courses based around excel, word and power point as well as bespoke software that’s used in by the company.

      You sound like you have a lot of transferable skills from your current job.

  129. FormerLW*

    Long story short – new boss. Two senior employees, Fergus and me. Others are very junior staff who aren’t privy to much of what goes on at the level of Fergus, boss, and me. New boss in in info-gathering mode, and has accurately surmised from multiple people, including personal friends of mine within the larger org, that Fergus and I despise one another. Fergus and I behave ourselves when it comes to day-to-day workflow – emails and pertinent info are shared, etc. We have a separate portfolio of projects that we do not need to collaborate closely on, but in such a small group we are forced to interact frequently. We can’t really bear to look at each other. Anyone BTDT?

  130. AnonEMoose*

    So I think I need to talk to my boss about a coworker. I’m keeping this intentionally vague for privacy reasons, but in essence:

    “Monique” has now been doing this work for…quite some time…and still seems to be struggling with some parts of the process. This has caused me extra work on quite a few occasions, mostly minor – but consistent. I’m not her supervisor – Boss supervises both of us – and I’m not sure Boss has seen what I’m seeing. This week, she missed something that should have been flagrantly obvious. Monique is always apologetic when I approach her (and I’m always polite, professional, and understanding when I do). I always offer a clear explanation of what went wrong and how to spot it next time. And she always indicates she understands…sometimes she seems to, and more often, it seems to happen again.

    Now, no one is perfect, I’ve certainly made mistakes myself and had to clean them up. But this is to a point where I’m concerned, it is to an extent impacting my work (because I double check everything she sends me, and have to spend the time working with her to fix things when something is wrong). And I’m thinking I need to have a word with Boss.

    So here’s what I have:
    I’m not going to get angry or present this to Boss in an angry way.
    I’m going to be clear that I’m concerned because this is a pattern, and it is impacting my work (at least to the extent that it’s costing me time).
    I’m going to be clear that I’m not asking for any particular action and I’m making him aware because Boss is busy and not necessarily in a position to see what I see on a daily basis.
    I have a good relationship with Boss, he knows and values my work. In our line of work, accuracy matters. Nothing is life-threatening, but it does matter.

    Anything else I should be aware of?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      I think your points are good, and I would add at the end to ask your boss what you should do about the impact to your own work. Then you’re presenting an issue you’ve encountered in your work, and you’re asking for help in solving it, rather than bringing a problem coworker to your boss’s attention.

      If your boss is any good, the solution will be that he takes steps to make Monique improve, and also helps you reshuffle your workload or gives you permission to let some things slide until the problem is fixed.

    2. Siberian*

      I think you’re on the right track. Make sure your tone is unemotional so you don’t slide into feeling like you’re just complaining or tattling (and so boss can’t interpret it like that). Maybe work in some “I want to support Monique in doing well” messages too, so you sound like a fair and supportive colleague who just wants what’s best for all concerned.

  131. SassySocialWorker928*

    My office mate fosters kittens from the SPCA and brings the kittens to work. I love kittens and cats but three days into her bringing the 3 week old kittens in my office, it’s getting kind of annoying. I work direct service and if I have a meeting, I have to scramble to find free space to meet my clients, especially if there’s allergies involved. People are in and out of my office playing with the kittens and it’s a huge distraction to me making phone calls and writing notes. But now, this is the final straw. The room smells like cat urine. Ammonia is an instant migraine trigger. I’m fine with my cat at home because he is litter trained. The kittens are peeing on a heated blanket. It smells so bad and I’m going to throw up soon, if it’s not solved. How should I approach this?

    1. Snark*

      I think you need to be firm, kind, and direct. “Brunhilde, it’s so wonderful that you’re committed to helping these kittens find a forever home, but it’s not working for me to have them in the office. It’s an impediment to holding meetings here, especially if clients are allergic to cats, there’s a lot of people coming in and out all day, and the smell of their urine is really strong and a migraine trigger for me. Could you find another situation for them?”

      And then if she gives you any pushback, which I think is a fair chance, you need to loop in your boss and HR.

      1. who?*

        All of this, but I would lead with the urine smell – to me it is the most obviously egregious aspect of this situation, the hardest to argue with, and the easiest to use as a push for her to find a different solution.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Is this person your boss? If not, it sounds like you have some legit, work-related issues that can’t be ignored. Have you actually discussed them with your office mate?

    3. nerkie*

      LOL, for a minute I thought this post was about me! I foster kittens for a local shelter and because they are under 6 weeks they come with me to work.
      Be honest with them! Being around the kittens 24/7 has made me COMPLETELY nose-blind to their smell and I can no longer tell if they stink or not (they are having poo issues so it’s been quite smelly, ugh). One of my managers let me know that my office was starting to smell and I was mortified because I honestly could not tell! I corrected the problem and have been cleaning/disinfecting their crate and all blankets/toys/etc daily. I clock out, I clean the office and take out my trash before I leave and that has really helped take care of the smell.
      Regarding the distraction aspect, again I can totally relate. I have set boundaries where when I need to feed the kittens, I let those who enjoy playing and cuddling with them know so they can come get some kitten love. it also helps keep the kittens quiet while they wait their turn for food. Perhaps ask your officemate to insist on the same boundaries? No kitten playing until feeding time or ask to set some sort of schedule that people are allowed to come and play.
      Luckily, I have my own office and this is a very animal friendly office, but honesty is really your best bet. If there is any push back from your officemate, take it up the chain.
      Good luck!

      1. Snark*

        I think animal rescue is super-important and fostering is a massive part of how it succeeds, so please, please don’t take this as a personal criticism, because obviously you got the message and corrected it – this is for others in the situation. But I think it’s safe to just assume, as your baseline practice, that if there’s animals in one’s office doing animal things, there’s a potentially strong smell, whether one notices it personally or not.

        1. nerkie*

          Agreed! With 3 week old kittens, they are still being stimulated to go to the bathroom so I just wanted to offer the point of view that perhaps the officemate was unaware of the awful smell. However if it is obvious that they are aware and just not addressing it, then the animals need to go. I made sure to get the okay from my office (and made sure they were aware just HOW messy young kittens are) before committing to taking such young kittens. Fostering is great, but it shouldn’t be at the discomfort of others.

  132. Therese*

    Kind of a job rant.

    My mom recently left her job. After she gave notice all these rumors went around saying how her boss was upset and was caught off guard by her leaving and this and that but IMO when does anyone tell their boss they are looking for a new job and might be leaving?!!? Isn’t it really rare that that happens.

    And my mom went to her boss and told her about the new opportunity before she accepted it and said she could do her job part-time but he said that was impossible. Really the guy could have saved some money by hiring another PT person to help her. Or a PT admin to do the paperwork. The whole thing kind of annoyed me but it is what it is.

    1. Sam Foster*

      This is exactly why I think one should never tell a boss one is looking. If the boss acts like this now, how would they act while the employee was looking?

  133. GarlicMicrowaver*

    Today’s the last day before I’m taking a full two weeks off for the first time, like, ever. I’ll be super busy because I’m getting married! However, that workaholic part of me can’t stop panicking about work. Any quick tips for disconnecting fully over the next two weeks, and for transitioning back?

    1. Beth Anne*

      Be prepared to come back to a mess. (depending on what you do). I took about a week and a half off when I got married a few months ago. It was easy to not worry about work b/c I was SUPER busy with all the wedding stuff and wedding prep and family in town but and my boss told me not to worry about anything. Although I was like man what kind of mess am I going to walk into and it was kinda crazy but after a week or two I was caught up and back into the same old same old.

    2. R2D2*

      If you’re not required to check email during your time away, delete the work email account from your phone! You can easily re-add it when you return to the office, and it removes the temptation to check in unnecessarily.

    3. CM*

      Congratulations!! Make sure everybody knows you’ll be fully disconnected, hand over any projects to backup people, write an out of office message explaining who to follow up with about different issues, or do whatever other prep work makes sense for you — and then go get married! For transitioning back, I’d block off the first day you’re back so you don’t have meetings and can spend the day catching up on email and following up with your backup people.

      2. R2D2*

        Great idea to block off the first day back! My old boss (CEO) always blocked off his first day following vacation to catch up on emails, put out fires, etc.

  134. Charlotte*

    I’ve not been lucky in the job arena–had some contracts, they weren’t extended, that kind of thing. Landed a full time permanent job for the first time ever in my five years in the job world and I hated it. I had a feeling about it in the interview and ignored it because I’d been unemployed for six weeks.

    I’ve given my notice in because the job was making me physically ill (I consider myself a fast worker but I can’t keep up with the pace) but I’m worried about what my boss will say if asked to give a reference by any future jobs. I was good at the advertised aspect of the job, but there was a whole other side mildly alluded to in the ad (think “also need some experience of teapot design” when on any given day 40% of time is given to teapot design) and not mentioned at all in the interview which I’m really not good at. In fact, I suck at it. I tried to negotiate this in the first week but was told nobody could do it.

    Anyway, my boss, the owner of the company, isn’t that professional–she has told other employees why so-and-so wasn’t in, making clear she doesn’t believe them, and on my first day she stayed working from home and didn’t speak to me til day 3, when there was nobody else to show me what to do. Realistically, can she give me a bad reference? (I live in the UK). And if she does, because see above re: me not being able to handle the heavy workload and one aspect of the job, and her not being a bastion of professionalism… what can I do?

    1. only acting normal*

      Your boss sounds like an all-round nightmare. Her lack of professionalism probably explains why the job ad was misleading too.

      The basics of UK law on the matter are here: https://www.gov.uk/work-reference

      She shouldn’t give you a misleadingly bad reference, she should only stick to factual accounts of your performance (e.g. not good at teapot design, but presumably you won’t be going for another job in that, so it shouldn’t matter.) It shouldn’t be worth her time to be vindictive that way, far easier for her to just confirm that you worked there between X dates.
      Lot’s of “should”s in there, and people don’t always do what they “should” so… if she does go the properly libellous/slanderous route, you could either brace yourself for fighting it (as per linked website), or stop putting her as a reference if you have alternatives.
      And focus on what you can control: make sure you include reliable referees, and in interviews be super-professional in your descriptions of her/your job there. Then, if she turns in a vindictive reference, it will reflect poorly on her because it will not match with the impression you give people.

  135. Miss Manager*

    How do you make a judgement call on whether an issue is a training problem or a incompatablilty problem with a new hire?

    We’re a niche industry where a lot of our work is straightforward but we do a lot of training. The new hire in question had a training schedule that was not ideal, but he did receive all the training. Most of his training happened in the first three days. I don’t think he was supervised closely enough in the following weeks however and now that I’ve taken over his supervision I’m noticing a lot of problems with his work. I’ve already coached him once on how to do the tasks he’s struggling with but still found incomplete and incorrect work done right after training. He also appears to be constantly seeking other workers to help him with tasks, but will not mention these issues to management. The other workers then end up running late on their tasks in many cases when it should have been a one man job. I’m having trouble determining how to approach all this, and while in an ideal world I’d like to just keep spending time coaching and recoaching him, I’m already over my head in new tasks. I also know though that rehiring could take up just as much time and that he does have a good attitude.

    So how do you make the judgement call on when someone needs more training/coaching and when they have had ample opportunities but just aren’t the right fit.

    1. Snark*

      Honestly? It sounds like he’s not the right fit. Making the same errors after training and constantly relying on others to help don’t paint a good picture. If he were just badly trained, I think he’d show a trend of improvement, and would have made new (and exciting!) errors after being coached.

    2. Kathenus*

      Ask him! You mention that he got the training but the scheduling wasn’t ideal. Not sure how much training is involved, but if it all happened in the first few days he may have gotten to overload and some of it didn’t stick, and then he got in a spiral with not fully understanding the information but having to try to struggle using it. You also mention that you are new in supervising him, so it sounds like he might have been lacking in – or at least had to deal with changes in – his initial supervisory support.

      It’s a perfect opportunity as his new supervisor to sit him down and mention that you’ve both discussed some of the areas where he’s struggling, and that you realize his initial training wasn’t ideal. Ask him what he needs to gain the skills needed (going through training again, someone to check his work, whatever). You can make it clear that learning these skills and being able to perform them independently is necessary to succeed in the role, but still be open to hearing his feedback on how he thinks that might be achieved. Then if he still can’t meet the needed standards, you’ve given him every chance to succeed and can move on with a PIP or separation if needed.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Do most new hires get all their training in the first three days of their job?
      If this is usual and others can make a go of it, then it might be a bad fit.
      However, if people are usually given more training time and his was rushed, I might consider sending him again for training, if possible.
      I think I would assign one or two people to mentor him. Probably I’d be one of the two people. The two of us would answer all questions, no one else. If there are too many people teaching a person, they may be receiving too many varied answers. Limit the number of teachers.
      I would make sure I did not answer the same question twice. Maybe he needs to make notes and he needs to refer to the notes.
      I would require him to think through the question with me. He’d have to work to find his answer, no free rides.

      I know for myself I am a person who needs to see the purpose of what I am doing. You can get me to add 2 apples and 2 apples all day long, but if I don’t know why I have to keep doing this, where the process goes after me, then I will probably screw it up. I have to have a vague idea of sequence in order for my piece of the sequence to gel with me.

  136. who?*

    I run into this situation frequently and am wondering if there is any way to change it, or if I just have to continue to deal with it. In my role I monitor the responses from the Contact Us form on our company website. Most questions I can handle myself, but sometimes I need someone else to answer because it is well outside my scope. In these cases, I forward the email to the correct person and ask them to help the customer. Frequently, instead of responding to the customer, the person will reply to me instead. This usually results in me being the middle man to an ongoing discussion, where I give the customer the answer and they have additional questions that I have to relay back to the person I originally forwarded the request to, or the coworker I forwarded the question to has follow up questions that they need to ask before they can accurately answer the customer, but they send those questions to me instead of directly to the customer.
    So the question is: Is there a way to professionally/politely ask someone to just respond to the customer instead of responding to me? If I forward a question to Jane because it’s within her scope, I think she should handle it from there with no involvement from me. I don’t think I should have to take her response and send it to the customer for her. It distracts from my other duties and turns what could be a short and quick exchange into a long, drawn out game of telephone that sometimes lasts days longer than it needs to.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      You could send those answers back to the customer and say “If you have any further questions, please contact Jane at janesemail@employer.com.” Assuming that The Powers That Be really don’t want you to be the only one communicating with these customers.

      1. who?*

        Good idea, I think I will start doing this after verifying with my manager that I don’t have to be the only one communicating with customers.

    2. Fake Eleanor*

      Have you confirmed with your manager (or the other person’s manager) about whose responsibility it should be to be the customer’s point of contact? I can see this going either way, frankly, and I don’t think it’s a situation where there’s a default answer.
      (For one thing, maybe the company doesn’t want individual email addresses being passed along to customers, though if you’re just forwarding replies that may not be an issue.)
      If it turns out the other person should be handling communication after you pass it off, I’d do so by replying to the customer, introducing the person who should be handling it for them, and cc’ing that person with a quick, polite introduction. Then you’ve established to both people that they should be talking to each other directly.

      1. who?*

        I’ve never asked my manager, but in other situations my coworkers are quick to forward a response to me and ask me to handle it, or to respond to a customer and cc me so I can assist. So I’m assuming that it is not a problem that I expect to be able to do the same. Though you know what they say about making assumptions.

        Thanks for the input, I will verify with my manager and I like the strategy you outlined.

        1. Stranger than fiction*

          Yeah, usually there’s customer service reps or sales managers handling this kind of thing and a clear division by territory, region, or product line. Just ask!

  137. My boss said I could leave early, but is it really okay?*

    I am an in-office employee who leaves the office to meet with customers occasionally (1-2 times a month). Our office hours are 7:30-4:30. However, next Wednesday, I’m meeting with a customer at 6:45 AM (this has never happened before to where a customer couldn’t meet within business hours, however, it was the customer’s only available time to meet.) The meeting should only last an hour or two, and I will be in the office the rest of the day.

    That being said, I emailed my boss asking him if it would be acceptable to leave at 3:45 that day (instead of 4:30) since I will have already worked 8 hours by that time (I’m an hourly employee). He responded with “that’s fine”. Nothing else. Am I overreacting in thinking that he’s actually not okay with this by only saying “that’s fine”? I wouldn’t be having my doubts had he said “that’s fine!” or, “no problem!”

    To give some context, we have a great working relationship. I have been here for 2 years and received a promotion 6 months ago. He is always praising me, and has honestly never expressed discontent for anything I’ve ever done/said. I never miss work, am always on time, and have only taken a couple weeks of vacation total since I’ve been here. Am I being silly in thinking that he’s not happy about me asking to leave early next Wednesday? To be fair, he was out of the office when he sent the email (presumably from his phone) and may have just been busy with other things.

    1. fposte*

      Unless his general behavior gives you concern, he said “That’s fine” because it’s fine and it’s such a small thing it wasn’t worth more comment.

    2. Sadsack*

      I think if he said it’s fine, then it’s fine. Just remind him the day before by sending him back the original email chain so he remembers that you will have off hours the next day, in case he’d look for you in the afternoon.

    4. R2D2*

      I wouldn’t worry about it! Like you said, you have a great working relationship and he likely sent the email from his phone.

    5. who?*

      You are overreacting and reading too much into this. Lack of exclamation point does not mean he’s unhappy with you or your request.

  138. Fake Eleanor*

    Today in wheels grinding slowly:
    Found out today that I got a phone interview for a great position that I applied for … 6 weeks ago? Maybe longer? Woo! Anyway.
    The person who talked to me works for this organization’s HR department. My spouse asked if I had asked about the role, the team, the manager, etc. I said no — the person doing the phone interview is the hiring manager and, in my experience, they’re much better equipped to answer questions about the actual job.
    But I thought I’d confirm: I’m right about that, right? Or are there significant questions I should’ve been asking the HR person at this (early) stage of the process? (I didn’t want to start off asking about benefits, salary, or that nitty-gritty at this state of the process.)

    1. Snark*

      Yeah, you’re right about that. Typically, all the HR person can tell you is what’s in the job description, which presumably you’ve already read. They’re just there to make the contact and set up the interview, at that stage.

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        I second this. If you haven’t asked them to send you a detailed job description- beyond what was on the ad, start with that. Google them for reviews and look at the website for other clues.

  139. Nox*

    “We need to improve employee motivation! Nox, please look into any charity walks in the neighborhood we can market ourselves annnnndd fix the morale!!!”

    Me:…..wtf…

    when did places decide that charity magically motivates and improves performance of employees?? We just want effing benefits and fair PTO packages and mayyyyybe a consistent performance review system…..but no I’ll go walk around 3 miles for charity instead

    Sorry, I’m ranting.

    1. Snark*

      It’s cheaper than actually shelling out for decent benefits and compensation and still lets them claim, in a tone of bafflement, that they just don’t understand why they don’t get qualified applicants and morale sucks.

      1. Nox*

        Here’s the thing though….we have tried these charity events and it always turns ugly:

        – The last charity dinner they insisted on doing for these reasons…only 5 people out of 250 employees showed up because 150 dollars a plate was out of people’s budgets and completely understandable. I had to opt out because I had just closed on my home and only had 30 bucks till my next paycheck when all was said and done.
        – We did a canned food drive and offered to supply a pizza party to the team that collected the most food. People got crazy and started buying bottles of water from BJs and slashing them open to count as individual items. The VP of operations people needed to cut that out and that resulted in people taking their food back.
        – Toys for tots – someone in an act of “shutting down the man” decided to pour a cup of coffee in the box containing the few toys that someone felt bad enough to contribute.
        – Breast Cancer fundraiser – 20 bucks for the month of October to dress down in the office. We had a client unexpectedly visit so for 3 days we had to dress in business attire (its the office rules when we have client visits). About 10 people demanded refunds for this.

        2. Snark*

          Jesus, you guys got a problem way beyond bad morale events. Coffee in the toys for tots box? Wow.

          1. Nox*

            The culture here is toxic because upper management ignores the facts and will go as far as doctoring data that supports proof of the disgruntlement.
            Like our employee surveys, they openly admitted that the questions are rigged in a way to not allow “bitching and moaning” or “negativity” so you could never score them below a neutral. Despite this, people found ways to work around it by ignoring the survey altogether.

            We had a suggestion box but only “business ideas” were allowed. So anything pertaining to incentives, benefits and interesting stuff was barred- they claimed that they wanted suggestions on things to help make more money and anything that did not conform to that was removed.

      1. Snark*

        Like I said above, I think the objective is to do something half-assedly that comes at no cost to the company and doesn’t involve any kind of difficult culture change that just kind of looks like an effort to boost morale, not an actual good-faith attempt to boost morale.

        1. Nox*

          We should have a “worst of morale boosting thread” someday.
          Another favorite of mine is: “Treat this like your own small business”……

          yeah no, if this was MY small business i’d be actually getting a better cut LOL

    3. Chaordic One*

      Asking for donations from people who are not being paid a living wage is, unfortunately, extremely common and typical of many out-of-touch supervisors.

    4. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Can I join this rant too?

      In two weeks we have to go do a team building charity service day which involves, apparently, helping out some public grdens in another part of town. Sure, fine, but I had emailed in that some of us have back problems (90% of the team is under 30) and other physical issues that will make bending over ALL DAY a bit of an issue. They said sure and took that on board but… guess not? Folks, I can’t clear out undergrowth all day when I can barely vacuum my house without getting a sore back for two days.

      So annoyed by this. These people are fine and for the most part non-offensive but I dont want to do this. At all. On a Friday, when I normally WFH.

      1. Anna Held*

        I still would. Tell your boss, HR, and anyone else applicable that there are health issues and you need to be excused. You physically can’t do this, and that’s it. You don’t mess around with a bad back.

        If they insist and you don’t have a doctor’s excuse or documentation handy to get you out of it, insist (cheerfully!) that’ll you’ll run the water station or whatever, but you cannot. bend. over. At all.

        Do you interact with clients or customers at all? Maybe offer to take all phone calls for your and any related departments that day. You sooooo want to help, but your health just won’t let you. Let me pitch in another way!

  140. Amber (no Rose)*

    I sent this question to Alison about leaving one temp position for another and I’d love to hear your thoughts bc I’m pretty torn.
    I have been temping with my current company since May. Prior to this position, I was at another company in a position that I loved. The role, company, SLT was awesome. I repeatedly received great feedback and although it wasn’t written in stone, they explicitly stated that they wanted to bring me on permanently. I know I should have been looking for other positions during this time, and I was but only half-heartedly because I just knew I’d be working there full time. Well, come April I get a robust round of apologies, (although genuine I felt), and an explanation that due to budget constraints I would not be offered a permanent position after all. That stung. But I am fortunate to have begun my current position 2 weeks later, so I’m grateful for that. Which brings me to my dilemma. This company is fine and the work is fine and they’re saying they’d like to bring me on permanently but not until December, which is also fine, (I’m not as enthusiastic about this role as my previous position, but it is fine). But, this all sounds way too similar to my previous position and I’m now taking steps, in earnest, to land another job. I’ve been working with another reputable temp agency that does a lot of direct hire, permanent work. I am in talks about a temp to perm position that would offer a good salary and before the position goes permanent, would pay nearly $10 more per hour than what I am currently earning. Is it wise to move from one temp agency to another for a better (temp to perm) position? Although I know there aren’t any guarantees, the recruiter I’m working with has said that the last 3 temps she placed with this company were all extended and accepted permanent positions. Should I decline any offer that isn’t permanent from the start? Should I ask about the potential employer’s timeline for moving from temp to perm?Should I go for it because the money is better? Should I speak to my current company about possibly moving up the offer date to say October (They do not know I am job hunting)? Are there any specific questions I should ask the recruiter at the new temp agency about this employer? I feel torn between staying, although I feel deeply that I should look to move on and not wanting to move too quickly and in the wrong direction. I guess it’s pretty clear I need some guidance on this! Thanks everyone!!

    1. Infinity Anon*

      When you took this position was there a specified duration that you signed on for? If so, you could specifically look for jobs that will start at your end date for your current position. That would eliminate any fear of moving too quickly and prevent gaps in employment. Then, if the company hires you, great! You have a permanent job. If they don’t, ok. You have another position lined up.
      Also, will there be any consequences if you leave early? You don’t want to gain a bad reputation by leaving when you signed on for a specified duration.
      I’m a little confused about your question about not accepting a position that isn’t permanent from the start. If you are dealing with a temp agency that does not sound like a reasonable expectation, but maybe someone who has more experience with temp agencies would know better. If your goal is to find a permanent position ASAP, you may want to be applying for permanent positions directly.

  141. Not So Fresh Grad*

    I work in the healthcare industry but my role is not clinical. I recently finished a professional master’s program, and some of the research(-y) work I did while in the program got accepted as abstracts at some healthcare conferences. I’m actively job searching, and am wondering if I should include these abstracts in my resume–and if yes, where it belongs.

    For context, I’m in the US, and have been working in the industry for close to 10 years, so I’m not a “fresh grad” looking to get an entry level position. The roles I’m applying to aren’t research-oriented, but the topics of the abstracts can be relevant to the positions and/or companies.

    1. rageismycaffeine*

      I would include them only if and when they are relevant to the specific job for which you’re applying. I’ve been seeing a lot of resumes lately that look more like CVs, with every little thing listed, and when they’re not relevant to the job I (personally) am not impressed.

      Love to hear what others think; I may be judging too harshly.

    2. Simone R*

      Are you going to be there with the data or is someone else? If you are not presenting it yourself I would only add these if you don’t have publications or presentations you did yourself. If you’re applying to jobs that require a masters this can show that your work is being taken seriously but is less strong than examples where you have done it yourself.

      To put on your resume: If the abstract has been accepted, list the authors as they appear (highlight yourself) title, place it is being presented and abstract number (if you have it). Put them in their own section at the bottom of your resume.

  142. Keladry of Mindelan*

    Does anyone have any suggestions about continuing education/professional development in communication and marketing skills? My job is expanding to include marketing and outreach to our international membership, including tailored emails, soliciting articles for our journals and newsletters, tweets, and website management. I don’t have any formal training in adobe analytics, but I’d like to have a better understanding of click through rates and successful email campaigns.

    Aside from online courses on lynda.com, are there any other places that I should look to learn more? Is there a membership society that I should think about joining? My work will pay for fees associated with training courses and conferences, I just need to think of options. Thanks!

    1. Stranger than fiction*

      Try Hubspot, it’s one of my faves. Tons of free content and free certification.

    2. Manders*

      Contently is good for content marketing, and Moz has a lot of 101-type guides and in-depth blog posts with some technical details I found useful when I was learning this stuff. I’ve only used Google Analytics, not Adobe Analytics, but most companies put out detailed tutorials you can work through online. It looks like Adobe’s is here: https://marketing.adobe.com/resources/help/en_US/analytics/getting-started/

      There are a truly ridiculous number of marketing conferences out there, but I’d recommend trying to get a general understanding of what you’re doing through online tutorials and trainings first. Then you’ll know enough of what you want to dig into to be able to choose conferences wisely.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Google Digital Garage, Moz, and if you do any community management type stuff try the CMX Hub and FeverBee websites.

  143. Nylon*

    I’m in desperate need of tips on managing email and admin tasks when you are slammed at work. I suck at answering emails quickly and finishing administrative tasks during the best of times and it just goes downhill when work gets frantic. I’m a designer and I need some good, uninterrupted chunks of time to do my job well. But I’m finding when we get slammed, I use all my energy on my design work and have no energy for the administrative work I need to do. I often feel that I can do my job (design and branding work), or I can answer my emails promptly, but not both. (and yes, I know that answering emails is actually part of my job.)

    1. CR*

      Set aside specific email answering time in your day; keep your inbox closed the rest of the time, and treat it like you would any other meeting or task: a set required time in your day when you must manage email/admin stuff. I love the inbox zero method guidelines: Do, Delegate, Delete, Defer. If it takes only a minute or two to answer an email, do it right away, don’t it put it off.

    2. NoodleMara*

      Set specific time to answer emails. To me, emails are generally non urgent communication. If someone really needs to get ahold of me, they can call. Leave chunks of time for your design work that are best suited for you and take breaks to do other tasks.

  144. Kim Possible*

    Did I overstep by asking to leave early next week?

    I have a typically in-office job, where I meet with customers outside of the office very occasionally (1-2 times a month, for no more than a couple of hours.) Our office hours are 7:30-4:30, and I’m an hourly employee. Next week, I’m meeting with a client at 6:45 AM (this never usually happens that a customer can’t meet during office hours, but it was our only option in this case).

    Anyway, I emailed my boss to see if it would be okay if I left at 3:45 that day, since I will have already worked 8 hours by that time. He responded with “that’s fine”. Nothing else. Am I being silly in thinking that maybe it’s NOT fine with him? To give some background, I’ve been here for 2 years, and have a great working relationship with my boss. I got a promotion 6 months ago, and my boss has always spoken very highly of me. If he had said “That’s fine!” or “No problem!” I wouldn’t be as concerned. I don’t have a job where I have to be here every minute between 7:30 & 4:30, and am a time-conscience employee who never “cheats” time, so I don’t know why it WOULDN’T be okay. To be fair, I know he was out of the office and sent the email from his phone, so I’m hopeful that he was just busy when he sent the short response.

    Any thoughts?

    1. Nox*

      I think you’re fine :) (no pun intended)
      He was just being short and sweet, I think he knows you are a good employee so he wasn’t second guessing your request.

    2. Stranger than fiction*

      This seems perfectly reasonable to me. After all, you’d be working 15 minutes overtime if you stayed until 4, and some companies would rather you not go overtime.

    3. Morning Glory*

      Fellow hourly person here. Whenever I have to ask permission like this, I typically preface it with “because I am non-exempt and don’t want to run into overtime…” or else I bring it up when someone assigns me an off-hour meeting or request, asking how I should handle it.

      It’s really easy for exempt employees to forget when you are hourly, I have found – once you frame it as an hours issue instead of asking to leave early, he may prefer that you leave early so that you don’t cost the company overtime.

      1. Kim Possible*

        Sorry! For some reason it wasn’t showing up after I posted it, so I posted it again. Thank you. :)

    5. CM*

      Yep, you’re being silly. :) Seriously, I became happier when I started taking what people said at face value and ignoring possible subtext. Even if the subtext is really there, they didn’t say it so you don’t have to worry about it.

      1. Menacia*

        It’s fine! :) My manager responds back the same way when I ask to leave early (which is hardly ever) so I don’t even think twice about it.

    6. Infinity Anon*

      It’s an e-mail from his phone, so I wouldn’t read anything into the length. If you are concerned, you can check in with in person about it, but I would just take him at his word.

  145. Stranger than fiction*

    Happy Friday everyone,
    Anyone have any advice on becoming “management material”?
    I’m thinking there’s something wrong with my personality but can’t quite put my finger on ot. Everyone seems to love my ideas (so they say), but there was a clear opening for me to be promoted earlier this year and it didn’t happen.
    I guess I’m looking for any book suggestions or self help courses that can help me work on this?

    1. fposte*

      I would first go to humans–the ones who work with you and supervise you and know your weaknesses. “Boss, I’d be really interested in growing toward a management path. Could you tell me the two main areas you think I’d could to improve on to make myself a stronger candidate in future?”

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        Yes, I thought of this, but my manager tends to be not very forthcoming when it comes to stuff like this. However, there is another manager whose brain I could pick.

  146. I need advice*

    I previously posted about my manager’s passive and aggressive behavior. I was supposed to hear about my probation status yesterday but got a in-limbo update saying the CEO has decided he cannot make a decision at this time because of resources and other factors. I asked if this meant I should look for other opportunities and my supervisor said he cannot advise me on that.

    Is it time to look for a new job? What do I even say when employers are asking me why I’m looking for a new position? Any other advice for not being jerked around anymore?

    1. Trisha*

      I don’t want to speak for Alison, but I know in situations similar to this, she has recommended that people look outside of their own workplace if their superiors are being flaky about promotions. It sounds like you should take their “lack of decision” as a no. I would look for other opportunities, and just be candid. Let them know you are looking to grow professionally.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      I asked if this meant I should look for other opportunities and my supervisor said he cannot advise me on that.

      That doesn’t sound promising. That sounds like a soft “yes, you should.”

    3. Not So NewReader*

      The facts that a) you felt the need to ask and b) he could not answer you are enough right there. Yes, start looking around.

      At this point you could honestly say that they are uncertain about your position.

      As far as preventing ourselves from being jerked around, we can’t always. I think having an action plan such as starting a job search is a good solid way to lessen the impact of people’s inability to make decisions. We can’t force people to make a decision, but we can decide our own course of action that would be in our own best interests.

  147. Applesauced*

    My husband and I are looking to move out of NYC in the next year or two and have a list of places to see before we decide where to go.
    People that have lived in different regions of the US (Northeast, Northwest, Southwest, South, Midwest…) how did work norms differ? Does company culture override regional? Are Californians really as laid back as we think? Does everyone in Chicago have mob ties? (I kid, I kid)

    1. Jillociraptor*

      I worked in the midwest, the northeast, and the west (Minneapolis, Chicago, D.C. area and Bay Area) for the same company. It’s definitely a matrix of company and regional culture, but even within the same organization, work norms varied by location. Even for a pretty casual organization, D.C. was a little more buttoned up with some more rigid expectations about dress, punctuality, etc. California is really as laid back as you think. I’ve lived here for three years and I still haven’t adjusted to how slowly people walk.

      One of the factors that I’ve found interesting to think about in all of these places is the natives versus transplants axis. In Minneapolis and the Bay Area (where I work in the East Bay anyway — definitely not true in SF or in Silicon Valley), it’s much more common to be surrounded by people who grew up nearby. I think that makes the culture a little more insular and deeply rooted. Chicago is kind of like this too, but so big and with such diverse neighborhood culture that it’s less pronounced. D.C. is so full of transplants that it creates a very different way of thinking about space and time. It’s a little more impersonal, more focused on speed and surface.

      Good luck with your exploration!

      1. It's a ruse*

        Seattle= super casual dress code (almost TOO casual) , usually quite flexible work/life balance policies, not very corporate. However it is getting overrun by Amazon people and has become massively expensive, and you will need a car as public transport still sucks there.

        1. Manders*

          Seconding that assessment of Seattle. Some other things I’ve noticed:

          There aren’t a lot of lifers in jobs here, because there just aren’t that many big companies that have been around for that many decades. Tech jobs turn over quickly and that work culture has extended to non-tech companies too. I even applied for a stodgy 100-year old insurance company and found out the new CEO was a “disrupter” and most of the department I’d be working with was hired away from Amazon.

          You will find housing and entertainment prices tolerable compared to NYC. You will, however, be very annoyed by the inadequacies of the public transit system.

          Seattle culture encourages a kind of indirectness that can be very frustrating when you’re coming in from the northeast. Things that sound like requests or vague suggestions at work may actually be instructions. Socially, people are way more casual about showing up late or not at all to events. You may find yourself having to invite 30 people to a party to make sure 10 show up. This is nice if you’re the kind of person who sometimes feels overwhelmed by social commitments but difficult if you’re a planner.

          Average salaries are a bit lower than NYC, but minimum wage is higher. There’s a pretty huge salary gap between tech and non-tech fields.

          The city can be very racist, but again, in an indirect way. It’s more of a structural problem that comes from a history of redlining, tech companies that tend to hire white men, etc.

          The grey weather is not as bad as you think it will be, but you MUST be diligent about your vitamin D supplements and your wake light or you’ll feel like crap by February. Also, it can be easy to become a shut-in when it’s cold and grey; if you really have to push yourself to get out of the house when it’s dark or if you don’t like coming home from work after dark, the PNW is going to be rough in the winter.

    2. Snark*

      I honestly think the company and office culture has as much to do with this as the region, but I think some broad regional trends emerge. Colorado and most of the Intermountain West and Southwest tend to be pretty informal, but purposeful. We walk fast, but we’ll meet your eyes on the street and nod and smile, feel me? Work/life balance is generally well respected. The influx of newcomers has diluted this, but I find Western culture to be friendly and warm, but private, and people generally err on the side of not pushing boundaries or getting terribly personal. Dress and interpersonal relations are largely casual, and most workplaces are on a first-name basis. My observation is that business casual gets stretched as close to “casual” or “brb, going for a 17 mile hike” as it is possible to go.

    3. Princess Carolyn*

      From a work perspective, the biggest differences I’ve observed were in dress code — which of course is going to vary a bit by industry and office anyway. Keep an eye out for differences in communication styles. You might be used to very direct communication in New York and will find the Midwest communication style to be meeker, more passive-aggressive. And then a Southern communication style is going to require a lot more deference and etiquette than you might be used to. The differences will likely be fairly subtle, especially if you’re moving to another major city, but be on the lookout for communication differences.

      1. Nox*

        I’m a Chicago transplant who lives in NY.

        Us Chicago folks are much nicer in my opinion :P. NY is very direct and sometimes a bit too my aggressive for my Midwestern sensibilities. I find that people here often perceive politeness as weakness, so I’m still working on adjusting my approach.

        ps. I do not have mob ties….but don’t think I won’t give you the stink eye if you assume my home team is the Cubs….

    4. I NC You There*

      I lived in NYC for 10 years, now I live in Raleigh, NC. I’ve worked at two companies since I moved here, and they’re very different culturally; I think you find a lot of the same “types” no matter where you go, like start-up vs. corporate, small business vs. big, etc. There are some businesses down here that are much more “good ol’ boy” than I’m used to (there are a lot of lawyers wearing Vineyard Vines), but you can find that at midtown hedge funds too.

      The biggest culture shock to me was the wardrobe. No kidding. That’s likely because I’ve worked for pretty small companies down here, but without my commute and my big NYC media company, I don’t dress the way I used to. I barely dress at all! I have a closet full of great Banana Republic dresses that I only wear to client presentations. I no longer have a collection of “work shoes” under my desk because I don’t need “commute” shoes. It feels super weird to me even after three years. Some people who work downtown do dress, but I don’t hang out with any of them.

      Things are slightly less cutthroat here, but they are also much more STEM-based. Raleigh is very tech- and pharma-focused and I work in media. I am Unusual here.

      We also have a lot of office parks, which means a lot of driving. Unless you work downtown, the “let’s meet up for a drink after work” thing doesn’t happen that much, especially since a lot of people here are married with kids so they’re eager to get on the road and get home. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve gone out for a beer with someone who isn’t a current co-worker, and when I went out with co-workers, it was because we worked down the street from a bottle shop so we would finish our day over pints. However… bottle shops and breweries are totally co-worker-appropriate and we have a ton of ’em.

      All in all, though, I think the company culture vs. regional culture thing is really industry dependent.

    5. KatiePie*

      California’s going to be a mixed bag. In the town I’m in, seeing a suit is a rare thing. But it’s totally common in certain industries in certain metropolises (think: SF or LA banking–yet SF is also full of startup employees donning hoodies). But, yes, I’d say there tend to be more laid back offices/industries than in other parts of the US. It’s really just going to come down to the individual places you interview. You’ll have to decide how chameleon you want to be. (I can dress in business attire for the right job, but prefer a casual dress code if I can find one.)

  148. Trisha*

    I was hired on as a senior manager in a new company last year, I found out I love the job, but I have absolutely no schooling for it, just interest and a large amount of reading on my side. I talked to the owners and we decided I should try and return to school. My question is, should I worry about being too qualified for a part time job somewhere like food service or something? I need the money, but I don’t know if they just won’t consider me since I was in a higher level position for a while. For background, the company is four years old, and I have been here for two and a half years after I dropped out of school, I worked my way from a general labourer, to a team lead, to a manager (mostly because I was the only one who could do the work). Any advice?

    1. rageismycaffeine*

      Is it not possible for you to work at the company for which you’ll be getting the extra schooling and go to school at the same time?

      1. Trisha*

        I am not going to school while working for them. They are hiring someone to replace me and I was in a position that would make it really uncomfortable for me and other employees if I went back to a labourer position. Besides that, they also don’t have enough work for a full time person and a part time person. I would be redundant. They are being really great and gave me tons of notice and a bit of severance for school, but I will need to find something else.

        1. Trisha*

          Although it was a mutual discussion, I found out they had been thinking about getting someone more experienced for a while, but they didn’t want to screw me over (such technical terms) since I helped them out so much.

    2. Hmmmmm*

      If you have actual job experience and can manage to work for $10-15/hr, I promise you, you would be a godsend to anyone trying to fill a student worker job at the school. My first conversation would be with whoever does work-study at your school. It also is a low paid job that you could actually put on a resume without it standing out to anyone in the future. You might even get a connect to a “real” job at the school that offers tuition remission.

  149. smokey*

    Are graduate certificates helpful (if you already have a graduate degree)? Or are they kinda worthless on a resume?

    I can learn about the field on my own; however, this field is easiest to learn in a classroom setting. It’s a traditional academic-subject career. But…paying for more school is a downer, so I would like for it to be as useful as possible.

    1. rageismycaffeine*

      Is the certificate in the same field as your graduate degree? I’m assuming not but want to be sure.

      I have an MLIS but I’m not a librarian – I work in an information services-related field in nonprofit – and have been considering getting a certificate in nonprofit management. If I had an applicant with a similar setup I’d definitely deem the certificate as worthwhile.

      1. smokey*

        The certificate is in a more specialized version of my degree. Like if I have a master’s in dance but am considering getting a certificate in ballet. I got a nice overview of ballet in grad school but now I want to move to full-time ballet. I’m technically already qualified based on my master’s, but could definitely stand to improve my skills in ballet before I try to do it full-force.

  150. anonforthis*

    A couple of years ago, my husband’s boss’s boss (let’s call him Fergus) moved to a promotion in another location. Every time he happens to see my husband, Fergus has repeatedly said “I’ve got a job for you if you ever want to move out here!” It’s been said jokingly, but the joke is based on the remote location of that office – Fergus has always been very serious that he thinks highly of my husband and would hire him again in a heartbeat.

    Recently, someone I have worked with and think highly of (Wakeen) has taken a job at that same far-flung location (but in a very different department). I saw him at an industry event and he jokingly asked what it would take to get me to move there and work for him. I laughed and said “It’s funny you should say that. Fergus worked with my husband and has always said he’d hire him again.”

    Wakeen lit up and immediately started asking questions about what my husband does, how much he (and I) would be looking for in salary, and talked about how trailing spouses are always the most difficult part for less central locations like this one. He asked if it would be okay for him to contact Fergus. I said “sure,” thinking he wasn’t serious.

    Two days later, Fergus texted my husband: “Sounds like you need to send me your resume.”

    Here’s the thing: Wakeen has a vacancy that I can fill. Fergus does not have one for my husband. It’s been a few weeks now and we haven’t heard anything from Fergus. I’m trying to tell my husband to bide his time and be patient because a position doesn’t just appear out of thin air (especially not when you work for the state as we do), but it would be nice to be able to follow up. I just don’t know how one diplomatically and nicely follows up on something like this. “Hey you know that job you weren’t remotely expecting to have for me and have to craft out of whole cloth? How is that coming?”

    Does anyone have any words of wisdom on this?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      It seems like Wakeen is going to be the one who drives this ship. I’d tell Wakeen that you are still very interested, but it all depends on whether Fergus comes up with a position for your husband. He might light a fire under Fergus that you don’t have the ability to do on your end.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Yes, I would simultaneously:
        1) Tell Wakeen, “Hey, I’m still interested, but Fergus has been dragging his feet.”
        2) Have husband tell Fergus, “Wakeen’s been really pushing to move forward to hire Jane. How do things look on your end? We want to be able to give him an answer if he pulls the trigger.”

    2. CM*

      This is a tough one!
      How serious are you about Wakeen’s position?
      Could your husband work remotely from his current job?
      I think that if Wakeen offers you an interview, your husband could reasonably reach out to Fergus and say, “Hey, my spouse is interviewing out there and we’re considering relocating. So I wanted to check in with you about whether you might have a position for me, and what the timeframe would look like for interviewing if there is a position. I’d appreciate any information you could give me.”

  151. kitryan*

    The fluorescent light above my desk went out. The light to the side has been out for some time. I am now in a wonderful cubicle of dimness. I wonder if I could get them to never fix it.

    1. Beancounter Eric*

      Just say “NO!”…when maintenance offers to change them, don’t let them…

      My office (12ftx15ft) has four four tube fixtures – way too bright when they all work – two of the fixtures are out, and it’s still a bit bright – every time our maintenance folks come by, they ask if I want new tubes in the fixtures….I tell them no – I dread the day I come in and they have gone ahead and re-tubed all four fixtures…..

      1. kitryan*

        Our facilities manager just came by and said he’d get right on it – I said ‘not on my account!’ and he said he wouldn’t fix it unless/until someone else complained. I hope that since I work in a corner with no one in the neighboring desks that this will be a long time. Since there are lights every 4 feet or so, there’s still plenty of light, it’s just that there’s no overhead light in my cube, which should mean less eyestrain and fewer headaches. I may shift the monitors a bit to take best advantage of the situation!

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      I’m super tempted to “help” the light over my desk go out some days. I’m very jealous of you right now.

  152. Durham Rose*

    Anyone here work in London in the Charity sector? Why are salaries here SOOOO low! Who can possibly live on that!

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Yep, I do. But the charity sector encompasses a broad range of roles and salaries, and it will depend on the size and type of charity.

      I’d be interested to know what you consider to be low? I think starter jobs are often very badly paid and can’t imagine living on a lot of the salaries I’ve seen posted. (I career changed having started out in another region in a different field.) But I’m happy enough with my salary, which is about 30k with some decent perks. Living outside London helps too. I am definitely priced out (but don’t want to move back anyway, I didn’t particularly like living there when I did it).

      What kind of roles are you looking at and at what level?

      1. Durham Rose*

        I’m seeing a lot of jobs at my level for 35-38K which I consider to be very low compared to where I’m from. I have a masters degree and 10 years of experience and the last five years at a manager level. I need to make at least 40K just to pay all my set costs! Agree the entry level salaries are shocking. I also see lots of fundraising jobs for 45k+ but I’m more of a technical person/programme manager and do not want to go into fundraising. It’s tough out there at the moment!

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          I’d be very happy if I made £38k (I’m not a manager and don’t plan to be so there’s not much chance of that) and am wondering why your set costs are so high. You’re talking about above average salaries for the UK and, honestly, you might need to reset your expectations a bit if you want to work in this sector.

          All that said, I don’t know what you mean by a technical person/program manager? If you mean anything to do with IT and that kind of programming, I don’t know anything about that. If you mean being in charge of delivering a charity’s programme in a particular area then the numbers you’ve seen actually sound low. Where are you looking? Have you tried looking on Charity Job?

        2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

          Are you coming in from the US? (just curious given the name although I guess you could come from north of England!) Because salaries here are low across the board, not just in the charity sector, if you compare with US roles and salaries.

          Do you have to work in the charity sector or could you apply your skills to another role in another industry?

          1. Durham Rose*

            Yes I’m from the US! And the salaries I’m seeing here for a senior level position are what I was making in Washington DC only a few years out of grad school- 8 years ago. I’m sad to be taking such a huge pay cut. I actually don’t think 38K is high for living in London and for what the positions I’m seeing are asking for (masters degree, loads of deep and broad experience, second language, years spend overseas). I have a masters in my field so charities make the most sense and also fit most with my personal interests. And yes I meant programme- not computer programs! Apologies, still switching my English over. My set costs are high because 1) London 2) cost of transport to and from work 3) mortgage 4) childcare 5) student loans in USD so I get screwed on exchange rate

            I know I just have to suck this up but I feel undervalued for what I bring to the table. I guess I’m worth only as much as the market will pay. Quelle dommage!

            1. Ramona Flowers*

              Can’t help with the student loans thing but have you looked into childcare vouchers (a benefit you can get tax relief on), child tax credits and child benefit? And as I mentioned have you looked on Charity Job?

              1. Durham Rose*

                Yes to all :) Regardless of where postings show up (I am checking all as full time job searching) they all seem to be in the same salary range. My issue is not getting living costs down, it’s wanting to be paid what my experience is worth. I took a huge pay cut when moving here, and it’s hard to get my brain to move past that. Might be time to move to the private sector.

                1. Ramona Flowers*

                  Non-profits need to pay enough to get good staff, but not waste funds on over inflated salaries.

    2. Agreed!*

      FWIW, I totally agree with you – I recently got here and am just appalled at the salaries, especially compared with COL. I have never felt so insulted by a number and under-valued / appreciated as when I look at the compensation on offer. No idea how people can live on these salaries. Plus, making less after 10+ years than I ever made makes me feel like crap.

      Thinking of trying continental Europe, since I don’t have private sector options. I’m not kidding, I’m really anxious I’ll never be able to make a livable wage. Commiseration!

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Serious question though: what’s your actual idea of living? For example does it involve running a car? Two cars? Do you buy a lot of stuff? Go on lots of holidays? We have lower salaries but more time off, better parental leave, we don’t have to pay for healthcare apart from prescription charges, and if I’m completely honest I’m having a hard time understanding why you think an above average salary is insultingly low. I get that it’s low compared to your country, but you’re not there now so I’m not sure how helpful that comparison is. I’m really sorry to hear that it makes you feel that way, but if a friend told me they couldn’t live on these sorts of salaries I’d be giving them serious side-eye.

        You asked how people live on salaries like this. Take off commuting costs, my share of the rent and bills, mobile phone, contact lenses and prescriptions (I have about five medications so I pay for an annual prepayment certificate which works out to under £9 a month) and I would have about £900 left to cover things like food, clothes, leisure, etc (I don’t because I’m repaying some debts). That’s quite a lot. And I don’t earn anything like £38k.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          PS I don’t mean to sound really judgemental, I’m just confused I guess as that’s a lot of money to me.

          1. Lolly Scrambler*

            I live in London and get paid around 38K and only need about half that for living expenses so I see where Ramona is coming from.

  153. DecisionsToMake*

    Just to update those about what’s going on with my work crush. I wrote a bit ago asking if I should tell someone about my crush as I will no longer be working for the same employer

    I have their personal cell and after a meeting texted them thanks for coming and if you ever want to hang out sometime they know how to reach me. They wrote back immediately, saying that sounds great.

    I’m worried that I was too vague and should respond with a time and place… Or should I just leave it as is and see what happens. I don’t want to come off as that office creeper!

    2. overeducated*

      I have a similar question about non-graphic design! I’d like to get into service design or design research, but all of the positions I’ve seen seem to be explicitly senior-level, and I’d be looking for entry or mid-level (I’m mid-career and have transferable skills but would also be making a transition). I am also wondering how to get in.

      (Hope I didn’t
      .

      The ball’s in your court so if you just wait, nothing will happen. You don’t have to text back right away but yes, propose something specific.

      Just make sure they know you’re interested in a date, not just hanging out as friends – showing up and realizing it’s not what you thought it was can be really awkward.

      1. overeducated*

        Sorry I think a partial draft comment that I’d attempted to cancel got carried over here. Alison, if it can be deleted entirely I’d appreciate it, but if not, everyone please just ignore the first part.

  154. Nacho*

    My old college professor just sent me an email saying that she was going to publish a paper on the research I did while I was working as her research assistant, and I’d be given an authorship credit. Additionally, while I was still in school, I won a grant for my work, and was invited to speak at a fairly prestigious conference about it. After graduating though, the job market for a chemistry major without a phd wasn’t great, and I’m currently making more money now in customer service than I’d be able to at a lab.

    Should I put these accomplishments on my resume? They’re not really related to my current field, but I feel like they’re impressive accomplishments that show how dedicated and intelligent I am.

    4. PB*

      If you’re listed as an author, yes, definitely! Authorship always looks good, and anyone looking at your resume will be able to verify that this is accurate. If you don’t have a ton of publication credits, you can list both of these achievements together in a “Research” section. I would list the grant as well, if you aren’t already.

  155. Cactus*

    Calling all programmers!

    I currently work in the IT field on the support side of things and I’m totally burned out. I want to go back and finish my degree in programming (I already have a degree but am 2 semesters shy of a 2nd) but won’t be able to start until Spring of next year. I’m fluent in HTML, CSS, PHP, and enough Java and SQL to get me around. I’ve tried tackling the C’s in the past but I was young and didn’t want to focus on it.

    Programmers, what’s the best language to learn first and which one is in high demand? I’m looking to move into the software development side of things.

    1. Eric*

      Python or JavaScript are most likely to get you a junior developer type job. I prefer Python but that’s just because I know it better — I use JavaScript too and it’s pretty cool. Pick one and learn it. Degree not necessarily needed, especially for Python/JS developers.

      IME, a lot of Java programmers are 5-10+ year veterans. Java seems very lingo heavy to me. If they teach it to you in college, they teach you the language well but not the billion other things you need to know for using it for developing real business applications.

      1. Annie Moose*

        Meh. We hire people straight out of school to do Java. I started with C# as an intern at OldJob.

        @Cactus – JavaScript would definitely be a useful next step, if you want to go the web dev route. I would also suggest learning a JavaScript framework like Angular, which seems to be about everywhere right now. If you wanted to expand your Java knowledge, the Spring framework is widely used.

        If you wanted to try a different language, how about C#? Popular these days, and I love the .NET framework. If you learn C#.NET MVC, that’s a pretty useful skillset.

        1. Annie Moose*

          A note on C#, by the way. Despite the name, it actually is not derived from C at all–it’s C-like, but what isn’t? C# and Java have a lot of similarities and are used for a lot of the same applications. If you’re already reasonably familiar with Java, then learning C# should not be overly difficult. (I did the reverse last year and found it an easy transition, although I’d already had a little exposure to Java in school.)

  156. Lily Evans*

    I’m having a major be careful what you wish for moment. I wanted more things to work on at my job and had come up with ideas for things I’d enjoy doing, that intersected my interests and strengths and would be new, beneficial things. Instead of any of those things, I get assigned to help with a project that involves with the things I hated doing that was 90% of my last job and a big reason why I left that. To top it off, it’s not even something I can work on in my own space, only at the public desk. For an easily distracted person with all or nothing focus it just extra sucks because I’m not supposed to wear headphones there and could be interrupted at any moment and dealing with noise from other people. On the worst days at that desk, I’ve been unable to even read Buzzfeed articles because I can’t focus. At my desk, listening to my music, I’m really good at hyper-focusing on whatever I need to do and getting it done quickly. Basically this is just a combination of all possible least favorite things to do.

  157. SL #2*

    Is it generally acceptable to make personal plans in the evening after the last day of a conference when you’re part of the host team? And how do you navigate the situation when you get invited to post-conference dinners and shindigs and have to explain that you’ve already made other plans?

    1. Snark*

      Ooooh. It’s generally understood that if you’re hosting, you’re also ringleading the post-conference dinners and awkward drinking, and it’d be kind of odd for you to not attend. I’d err on the side of not doing it, honestly.

      1. SL #2*

        Yeah, I do this a lot and I travel a lot for work overall (I’ve been at this job 2 years) and this is the first time I’ve ever had this dilemma? The only thing that makes me even consider this is that the conference has a networking reception (which I will be at for sure) that goes until 6:30pm. After that, the whole thing is officially done and anything else happening is optional. I don’t know if that changes your answer, since there’s an official hosted event for post-conference mingling and people aren’t left to make their own plans.

    2. abra*

      It might vary depending on just how big a conference it is, but in my experience, having conflicting plans at conferences is normal because it’s impossible for everyone to make every meetup. If you’re attending the closing networking event, I’d think that’s more than sufficient. Organizing is exhausting and you deserve a break!

      1. SL #2*

        It’s a small, closed-invitation conference. I know my boss will be okay with me not being on-site after the reception (the conflicting plans don’t start until 8:30 anyway), but I’m wondering how to approach the situation, if it comes up, with attendees or other people on the planning committee who aren’t internal to our organization. I can’t really imagine someone reasonable getting upset about me not being available starting 2 hours after the conference ends, but…

  158. Catherine from Canada*

    I asked you all back in February for advice; I’d bought a store and all the (current) instructors were accustomed to picking up their cheques from under the cash drawer whenever they were in the store. Not secure, not trackable, not what I wanted to do. You all agreed with me that this was Not Acceptable and Needed To Change. But they were dragging their feet and pouting about it.

    Well, I am happy to report that they all now submit their invoices by email and are paid with an etransfer, usually the same day, and are even happy with the arrangement! So thanks for the backup.

    The change came about because one of these instructors attempted to lead a mutiny by demanding a massive increase in her hourly rate (from $22 to $40), encouraging the other three instructors to do the same, and then quitting 36 hours later. She left us in the lurch for two fully booked classes, but two of the other instructors told her to take a hike and stayed on. We’ve since brought on six more instructors (and broadened our class selection significantly – always a good thing!) The new instructors were just told this is how the payment system works, and oh by the way, here’s an Independent Instructors contract to sign. Everyone is happy.

    She did us a favour really, something that I’m sure would irritate her greatly if she knew.

  159. Coffee Ninja*

    I’ve been in my job just over a year and my boss/his boss are thinking about giving me additional responsibilities – it’s oversight of one area of our department that is currently handled by someone in another department. They feel it’s a better fit for me & my role (I agree) and my boss is adamant that I receive a raise for taking on this responsibility. Can I/should I ask for a title change also? (I work in higher ed so my actual job title isn’t the same as my title in the HR system, that might give my boss a little more flexibility).

    1. Snark*

      Yes, I would, if for no other reason than it drives home your professional growth on a resume.

      1. Coffee Ninja*

        Thank you! That’s a good point – the job has evolved a decent amount since I started & I would like to capture that.

  160. Jillociraptor*

    I recently applied for a position that looked interesting. A week later, the recruiter got back to me with an extensive packet of information that requested: my salary history, my driver’s license number, home addresses of my references, a writing sample, and 6 essay questions. Yikes. (An additional funny piece of context: the organization focuses on civil liberties so asking for personally identifying information and salary history should be a little off brand, no?)

    I’m not going to move forward with this process, but I’m curious about whether I should give feedback as to why, especially since the person who’s been coordinating the communication has been an external recruiter, not a staff member at the organization. When I email her back, do you think I should share why I’m not moving forward?

      1. Jillociraptor*

        It’s a recruiter and I don’t know that the feedback would actually get back to the employer.

        1. Beatrice*

          It sounds like you don’t really have anything to lose, if it doesn’t, though, except for the time and thought you would to put into being candid with them.

  161. Eric*

    I just started a new job and really like it.

    The only problem is that it’s in the heart of commercial NYC. It being crowded isn’t a huge deal (a little obnoxious but I’ve lived in NYC for all my life), but there’s a lot of guys hawking sightseeing tickets and trying to get you to sign petitions. The ticket salesmen can be really aggressive: I’ve heard of them being arrested for getting violent with people, and last week one yelled at me for ignoring him.

    Not a question, just a vent.

    1. Naked Cowboy's Nemesis*

      I feel you! When I worked in Times Square (eons ago), the Naked Cowboy took it personally that I ignored him when I was just trying to run errands at lunch. Like, he remembered me as someone who wouldn’t pay attention to him and would call after me. Grrrr.

    3. Annie Moose*

      They’re the worst. “Hey, do you like comedy? What, you don’t like comedy? Are you sure? Why don’t you like comedy? Everybody likes comedy! Come on, what kind of person are you that doesn’t like comedy? Do you just have no sense of humor? Come on, sure you have a sense of humor, don’t you want to laugh tonight?”

      NO I WILL NOT GO TO YOUR COMEDY SHOW, STOP ASKING.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I used to work in Times Square. For 8 years. I learned to ignore. Sunglasses are a big help for that. You have my sympathies, though. I haaaaated being in Times Square, but Herald Square would have been way worse. I eventually moved to an office on Madison, which was great, but it was only 5 blocks away from Empire State, which BLOWS.

      1. Eric*

        So I’m actually in FiDi, though some of the stuff I do takes me to Times Square, which is wonderful too. We have the Statue of Liberty ticket guys and they are the worst. Most of them don’t care if you’re in Do Not Disturb mode with sunglasses and headphones on. They get really pushy with women, especially women who are alone.

        The one guy who yelled at me something like “What the hell is wrong with you that I’m trying to make a living and you can’t stop to talk to me?” (you and everyone else in this city, including the folks coming in from PA and CT), followed me for like 20 seconds down the block. I’m a big guy so chances of someone getting physical with me are really low, but it definitely teaches me about what other folks go through here.

        I’m happy here but I definitely miss being able to take a peaceful lunchtime walk.

    5. Applesauced*

      B’way in the mid 50’s checking in – UGH.
      I’ll walk a few blocks out of my way over to less tourist heavy avenues (9th or 10th or Madison or Park) just to avoid them. Or cut through “6th and a half” Avenue public spaces.
      Walk quickly with your eyes up, dart around slow walkers, and don’t make eye contact, don’t engage, don’t respond to anyone.

    6. R2D2*

      So obnoxious! Try wearing sunglasses and headphones, as others have suggested. It also helps to walk very briskly and confidently, avoiding their eye contact, throwing the unmistakable vibe, “I’m in a hurry and have NO time for you.” Good luck!

    7. Mazzy*

      You’re bringing back bad memories of city life! I had Greenpeace and PETA staffers be rude to me because I didn’t want to talk to them ten times a day, everyday, on the street, and this was when I was already giving money to them!

    8. Elizabeth West*

      Ugh. You run into this crap in certain places in Los Angeles too, particularly Hollywood Boulevard. It’s already crowded as hell with tourists looking for stars and around Grauman’s Chinese Theatre (where the footprints are), but then you get the hawkers shoving DVDs into your hands, etc. There are so many people it’s hard to get away from them. I learned to ignore hawkers after living downtown in Santa Cruz, which was/is full of panhandlers.

  162. abra*

    I just need to complain for a minute to someone, anyone: I’ve been working from home for the past two days and someone on my street was revving up a dirtbike and tooling up and down the street with it ALL AFTERNOON FOR HOURS yesterday
    and
    NOW HE IS DOING IT AGAIN
    it’s so loud and i hate everything

      1. abra*

        Good advice, but from experience, public nuisance calls / 311 noise complaints don’t really get answered in this city. I don’t blame them, it’s a daunting task, but argh DIRT BIKE GUY STOPPITTTT
        Luckily I think it’s supposed to rain later this afternoon, so maybe he’ll take a break?

    2. Annie Moose*

      Oh man, do you live in my apartment complex? Somebody was out with a motorcycle or dirtbike yesterday all afternoon into the evening. Laaate into the evening. I about wanted to go out and yell at them from the side shoulder about how rude they’re being! (for bonus points, my apartment complex is right on the outskirts of town–there are miles and miles of country roads he could drive on that DON’T involve driving loudly through a residential area)

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Ewww. We had someone in our neighborhood a few years ago with one of those pocket bikes. Those are so awful, like an extremely loud whine, besides being incredibly stupid. I feel your pain.

  163. Niff*

    So I know the general advice is not to take any time off for the first few months of a job. My husband just started a job where he will normally get 20 days PTO in addition to office holidays and is getting I think 8 or so pro-rated to use between now and the end of the year. He can’t cash them out or anything.

    If he waits until he’s been at the job more than three months, he will be right in the smack of holiday time (mid-November) when I imagine lots of people already have approved time off and there will be lots of office holidays and so I worry it might seem excessive for him to use all his days in that last six weeks or so of the year. At the same time, I don’t want him to miss out on using all his PTO since it’s part of his compensation package. Would it be okay for him to use some in, say, October? Thoughts?

    1. Sadsack*

      Maybe he should ask his manager if it will be possible to use it all at the holidays and, if not, how should he handle it?

    2. Sualah*

      I think once he starts, he could just talk with his manager about the PTO days and how that could work. Hopefully his boss would know how the use or lose it works and would understand wanting to use hours.

    3. Annie Moose*

      How about taking them one at a time? Using one PTO day when you’re a month into a job looks a lot different than using a full week.

    4. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I’d wait for about a month so it doesn’t come across as his being ready to take his time off right off the bat. After that, maybe he could check to see if there’s a PTO calendar where people’s PTO days are listed? That would make it pretty easy to make sure he’s not requesting time when everyone else is. And I agree with the others that a conversation with the boss would probably be the best way to proceed.

  164. PinkElephant*

    I took a job that wasn’t exactly the salary I was hoping for because the job offered the flexibility I need. During the interview I was told that the team is very flexible when it comes to work hours and everyone has laptops so if you need to work from home early in the morning and then come in at a later time you can do it and if you need to leave early you can and finish the day at home. The hiring manager mentioned that he knew school is my priority and would work with me regarding my school schedule.

    School is starting soon and now the manager is saying that I can neither come in early to leave early or make up the hours another day. I need to leave 3 hours early one day a week for my class so I asked if I can just make up the hours another day or finish the day from home and was told no. I then asked if I can come in early every day as was mentioned during the interview and then I would complete my 8 hours every day and was told that is not possible either. I am confused and not sure of what to do. Should I talk to HR about this or just start looking for another job?

    I did speak with my manager around June when I was scheduling my summer classes and told him about the early class so I thought it had already been cleared. I’m very confused as to why it was approved and now the manager is not willing to work with me. The manager mentioned that he never approved it and only said he would try.

    Thanks!

    1. fposte*

      Oh, boy, what a pain. The problem is that your manager is always free to say “It doesn’t matter what was said in the interview; we need you here 9-5,” and it sounds like she’s pretty much said that. If she was the hiring manager (I wasn’t clear), she already knows about the discrepancy and has dealt really badly with it, but I don’t think anybody is going to make her give you the flexibility.

      So I would definitely start looking. In some situations, you could say to your manager, “It sounds like your needs for this job have changed, and that the flexibility that was stated in the interview isn’t available anymore. That means this position won’t work for me, but I’m willing to make the transition to my successor as easy as possible by working through [date] if you can grant me some short-term flexibility this fall in keeping with our original discussion.” But that is going to *way* depend on your importance and your relationship with your manager.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Ugh, this feels like a bait and switch. How time-dependent is your job – do you need to match clients’ hours at all? Was the manager the one present in the interview?

  165. Overworked County Employee*

    I am working on my Position Analysis Questionnaire which is used by HR to determine if your job title/description matches what your actual job duties. If I can show that I am doing the duties of someone in a higher position than my current title reflects I can get the new title and maybe a salary increase. In the last month my three person office was reduced to just me performing the duties of the person below me and above me. I am now the sole provider of many internal services for our county government. I am having trouble finding the right wording to express that. Would you say I am the primary resource? Sole provider? Data and process keeper? None of those terms feels right. Any ideas?

  166. Fabulous*

    How do you “break into” graphic design? I’ve been doing it for a local theatre for a few years now (show logos, programs, website design, email campaigns, Facebook banners and posts, etc.) and also I’ve taken on some things at work that play to my design strengths as well (editing training modules and creating new PowerPoint decks, etc.) I’ve found that of everything I do, I always volunteer for the “make this pretty” jobs the most. I just love editing things and I have a very good eye for flow and consistency!

    I may be job searching again in the next year or so due to an impending relocation, and I want to get it right this time! Without the accompanying graphic design education or traditional graphics programs, how can I make the transition in my career? What types of jobs should I even be looking for? Marketing? Communications? I did take a few classes in Marketing, but never really got the hang of content creation; however, I can take something that someone else created and make it great.

    Btw, everything I’ve done is using an VERY version of Photoshop, or I create compiled images in Word. You can do SO much in Word nowadays beyond the basics! I keep toying with purchasing a new version of Photoshop or Illustrator to play with, but I can’t get on-board with a monthly Adobe subscription. Any suggestions there too?

    1. alice*

      I have an Associate’s degree in graphic design, and in my experience, it’s the skill in Adobe Suite that counts more than education. You really need to know your way around PhotoShop, Illustrator, and InDesign. You can get a cheaper version of it with a student email address, but besides that, you’re stuck with paying for the subscription (or torring it).

      I’d suggest playing up your marketing experience as well, as graphic design is essentially visual marketing. Create a portfolio (online and pdf versions as you’ll be asked for both) and have that ready to send out. Including drafts and thought process in that portfolio is incredibly useful as well. And make sure that work is varied. As a graphic designer, you are a marketer and communicator, not an artist.

    2. GraphicDesigner*

      I work FT as an in-house graphic designer. CS6 is actually still VERY comparable to CC, especially at the core of the software. If you can get a hold of a copy of that suite and get it working okay on your computer you can work on improving your skills there until you can justify the subscription. In our office I’m the only designer using CC, my design interns still use CS6. So I’m regularly having to show them things in CS6 and I rarely get tripped up. If you paid for anything I think something like Lynda would be great for expanding your knowledge into Illustrator and InDesign (every designer I know uses all three, like alice mentioned).

      Another job searching note: don’t ignore graphic design internship listings! Give them a look, see if you can negotiate a temp position. My org is looking for a FT design intern for next summer because we need a lot of help during that time period and we’re open to non-students for something like that. In fact, I’d rather NOT have a student– I need someone reliable with past work experience. A temp role like that will really boost your resume and portfolio very quickly. It’s very rare (at least in my experience) that design interns do anything other than work that the FT designer can’t do– meaning, they’re not coffee-fetching internships! It’s a great way to get started.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Fabulous, Skills, Skills and Skills are more important than degree. Build your portfolio of work you’ve done.
      Yes to temp jobs, gigs and even production artist (less design but sill-heavy) type jobs. And I agree with Graphic Designer about the internship jobs. I actually have a undergrad marketing intern who has some design skills so I hired her. She makes $15 an hour. I didn’t expect a lot, and she’s done well, and would look for that again.

      There are a lot of design jobs that also fall under “marketing communications,” but generally a straight up graphic design job will just be called that or sometimes “production artist.”

      Are you a student of any kind? If so, you can get a cheaper student version of Adobe CC or just keep using the full trial versions. I also still use CSv6 sometimes as I own it. It’s not all that different from the current, at least for the basic skills.

  167. Pet Sitter*

    Bitten fingers update: My hand is healing very well! My bitten fingernail is getting better every day. Even the bruise under the nail, which I expected to last for weeks, is fading quickly. My other bites are healing, too.

    So now I will be adding some language to my website and forms, asking if pets have bitten in aggression in the past. Sigh. I don’t want to be accusatory and I don’t want to decline, for example, a puppy who goes through a phase of painless play-biting while learning bite inhibition. :/

    1. fposte*

      I’m glad to hear you’re healing. I would also recommend creating a bite policy for yourself as well, because you may be somebody’s first chomp sometime, too.

      1. Pet Sitter*

        Good point. I’ll see if NAPPS (National Association of Professional Pet Sitters) has recommendations for this.

  168. Pet Sitter*

    I’ve seen some blue-haired people around town recently and I am really, really into it. I’m thinking about doing it. However, I’m concerned about the impression it may give pet owners, particularly those who are generally conservative. I would love to hear what people who would describe themselves as conservative or traditional would think.

    On the rest of my appearance: I look younger than I am. I usually wear a nicer T-shirt, jeans or khakis, and sneakers. Basically, I need a shirt I can be active in, pants sturdy enough to stand up to jumping dogs’ claws, and soft-soled, closed-toe shoes. I don’t have any tattoos or facial piercings. I either wear no makeup or keep it natural-looking.

    So: Blue-haired pet sitter:
    – Yes
    – No
    – Maybe
    – Don’t care
    – Other opinion, please explain?

    1. Another Lawyer*

      I am generally conservative as to professional appearance and I own a dog. I wouldn’t care at all. As long as my dog is into you and you seem like a responsible pet person (blue hair wouldn’t weigh into this for me, pet knowledge would), I’m happy.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      I’d be more concerned with how my dogs felt about you and what your references were like. You could have all the tattoos and piercings in the world and rainbow colored hair if you wanted. However, I would go into it knowing that some new clients might be turned off by it and could believe that you’re actually younger than you really are and maybe not that responsible.

      1. Pet Sitter*

        Yeah, that’s the exact first impression that I’m concerned about making.

        I get along with animals very well. My animal social skills are better than my people social skills. :P I have solid references and years of good experience (recent bite aside).

    3. Rainy, not-PI*

      I’m not conservative, but I have experience with fun hair colours. I had midnight-blue hair through most of my doctoral work, and purple through the whole of my MA program, just fyi, and I don’t think anyone cared. A lot of people never noticed.

      Before I went back to school I worked in the pet care industry, with a lot of very conservative clients, and my experience there is that pet care providers are expected to be a little weird.

    4. abra*

      Unless you are in a very conservative city (and it doesn’t sound like it, if there’s a sizeable population of people with fun hair), I can’t see how it would be offputting. Most people I know who petsit do have tattoos or piercings or exciting hair (or all three!) and it’s never seemed to be an issue.

    5. overeducated*

      I feel like most people probably wouldn’t really care because it doesn’t make a difference to how you do the job and you don’t have to dress for a standard workplace.

      FWIW, I have a pretty conservative appearance and in my previous workplace it was against dress code to dye your hair or even wear nail polish of an “unnatural” and/or “non-traditional” color, and I still dress up for church, but I am not conservative in the sense of thinking there is one “right” way for people to look and dress all the time. I think what is appropriate depends on context and you work in a context that should give you more flexibility. Some people might make envious comments that you “get” to do that but I would be surprised if it lost you business.

    6. Rincat*

      I think if you want to do blue hair, go see a professional if you can, so that it is done nicely. I think what would turn people off more regarding fashion hair colors is badly done color than the color itself.

      By badly done, I mean: hair is over processed, color is patchy and uneven, color turning undesirable shades (like mud green). I will warn you that blue is a hassle to maintain because it fades so easily – I know this from experience! You have to bleach the crap out of your hair, and refresh the color every 1-2 weeks to keep it from going green.

      Also I personally think darker blues look better than super pale blues. This is because 1) it’s easier to maintain 2) pastels hair colors just scream really young to me.

      If you don’t want to get a full color session bleaching + color from a pro, I recommend seeing a pro just for the bleaching part, and then you can go home and put whatever semipermanent blue on top of it.

      Good luck! I love fun hair colors and was blue/purple/pink myself for a while, but now I have new job and my boring brown hair. :(

      1. Manders*

        Good point on the pastels. I do think I’m being mistaken for a teenager more often now that I’ve got pastel blue hair. And yes, bleaching at home can result in weird patches.

        Now that I think about it, nearly everyone I know who works in pet care has had an unnatural hair color at some point.

        1. Rincat*

          I think pastels can be beautiful, I love all the work done by Guy Tang, but he is a super-pro. I tried DIY pastels and the result was not good. :) However if your hair is naturally light it’s a lot easier to obtain and maintain pastels than someone with my hair, which is naturally a level 2, so super dark with lots of red undertones. No amount of bleaching was going to get my hair light enough to properly do pastels.

    7. Manders*

      :D I just celebrated settling in at a new job by dyeing my hair blue! I’ve had all kinds of hair colors in the past, both in the conservative south and the liberal northwest. The people who comment always seem pleasantly surprised, not critical.

      If you’re nervous about jumping straight to blue all over, try a streak, just the tips, or an ombre first.

    8. Dankar*

      Yes! I’ve had a ton of colors (blue, purple, pink, gray), and I love seeing them on others.

      Be aware, though, that blue molecules tend to wash out of the hair more quickly than other colors. Make sure you have it done professionally and that if you need to bleach your natural color out, talk about taking the brassy color out before dyeing. I’ve had colors wash out and leave me with really yellow-blonde, porous hair beneath that can hold stains from things like chlorine. A good colorist will know how to avoid this, but it’s something to think about!

    9. HannahS*

      I am neither pet-adjacent or conservative but I’ve had blue hair! I dyed it from about my chin down (my hair was hip-length) so that I could french braid it and flip/tuck the braid underneath in a space at the nape of my neck. That’s a terrible description, but basically I could tuck the blue away so that only brown was showing. I felt it was a comfortable middle-ground–maybe that could work for you.

      But also, while I/my family aren’t politically conservative, we’re religious Jews who dress conservatively, don’t wear makeup, don’t dye our hair (except me, blue, once, for a period of like three months), don’t have piercings or tattoos…and whether or not someone does any of those things doesn’t impact how much we trust them to come into our homes and do a job. So I wouldn’t worry about it too much, if I were you, especially if you’re getting jobs mostly by reference or by talking to people on the phone first, and especially if you otherwise are dressing professionally (for your job; not that you should start wear a blazer or anything).

    10. Ramona Flowers*

      Other opinion: will your dyed hair be toxic to my pet in any way? No? Then I’d just be kind of jealous of it.

      Only my cat occasionally tries to chew or suck my hair, especially if it’s wet, the little furry weirdo.

      1. Pet Sitter*

        Your cat’s trying to groom you! It’s sweet. They groom each other socially, but not many of them try to groom people, too. One of mine does that. He hates the taste or texture of people hair, spits it out looking disgusted, and nobly tries again later.

    11. Pet Sitter*

      Update – Thank you all for the input! It sounds like I should be okay with an unnatural hair color. I’ve decided to go for a different color (ginger!) that is just as fun but requires none of the bleach or worry about unusual colors.

  169. Public Accounting Dropout*

    I’d been thinking for a long time if my problems is my employer or if the issue is that public accounting is just wrong for me.

    I knew my employer isn’t a good match but I’ve realized I genuinely despise public accounting. No personal life a quarter of the year, lousy and unreasonable clients, and long hours sent doing taxes which I really dislike.

    Since realizing this I’ve felt fantastic! I’ve been in public 10 years and recruiters have told me it’ll be hard for industry or privately owned businesses to “take a chance on me” but I don’t care. I’d change fields before I’d ever do public accounting again.

    Now the hard part. Job searching!

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      I disagree with the recruiters. I have an accounting degree, but I’ve never worked in public accounting. I’m an IT nerd now. Many directors and CFO’s I’ve worked for have insisted on hiring CPA’s with public accounting backgrounds, even if the skill set may not be the right fit. I’m not casting aspersions on your qualifications, nor am I saying that you wouldn’t be able to do more corporate-type accounting. But I have many friends who started out in public accounting tell me over the years that they really wouldn’t have known how to do many of the things I did in those jobs. One friend once told me, “Yeah, I know the books have to be closed every month, but I really have no idea how that is accomplished.” It’s not rocket science — if you can get an accounting degree and do public accounting work, you can absolutely learn how to get the books closed. But it’s not intuitive.

      If you’re a CPA, then that designation will definitely get your foot in the door for an interview at many companies.

    2. Courtney H*

      I think those recruiters are trying to push you into another firm so they can get their commissions from their client ASAP from filling a position.

      Don’t give in and somewhere will want to hire you because of your skills and experience. And you won’t have to settle for another firm job you don’t want.

    3. Annabelle Lee*

      I agree with the others (CPA here). Ten years in a public firm is great experience. Where I live (upper midwest) accountants with your experience walk into senior accountant and controller roles routinely.

    4. KatiePie*

      Those recruiters are nuts–from all I’ve heard on the accounting forums, most CPAs aim to put in their time, then make the jump to industry. Few are lifers (mostly just those who make partner.)

      Check out goingconcern.com

      For the record, I went straight from undergrad to industry. But I spend a lot of time reading accounting forums, mostly for current trends, but they always remind me why I’m glad I never went into public.

  170. Maybe future manager*

    I’m in the final interview stage for a job that would be a big step up in responsibility, including going from managing fellows and interns to three full time staff. I meet or exceed all other requirements, and the title is one step up. My last interview is coming up and I’d love advice to help make a compelling case for why I’d be a good fit, despite my more limited team management experience.

    More background info:

    1) I’ve managed 10+ full time AmeriCorps fellows, work study students, and paid interns in the past, but no full time employees. I’ve taken several management courses (including Allison’s!) and have gotten good feedback from these reports and my bosses on my management skills. At the same time, I know I still have a lot to learn. Plus, managing a team of three would definitely still be new.

    2) This position would get to design and hire the three roles that would report to them.

    3) If I’m offered the job, I would likely pay for some leadership coaching sessions to get support in the beginning tonset myself up for success.

    4) The hiring manager has said he enjoys mentoring new managers and that everyone’s got to start somewhere. And the company had a culture of developing their people and promoting from within.

    Thanks to anyone who read this far!

    1. Your Weird Uncle*

      Hi! I just went through a grueling process similar to yours – I applied for (and was offered the job!) my manager’s position, as she had recently retired.

      It sounds like you have lots of management experience already – I think you could make a case that managing fellows and interns can be more difficult as they might not already know workplace norms and very often you have to start out with the basics (i.e., ‘This is Excel. This is called a cell.’). I think you can definitely spin it positively! Don’t sell yourself short!

      It sounds like you’re an internal candidate? You can also sell yourself on that aspect. You’re a known entity, and you can also jump in with knowledge of the culture, workplace goals, and you might even have a few good ideas that you can toss out (or hint at?) in your interview. In my case, I was asked a lot of questions that revolved around how I would go about fixing the problems that our department has: high turnover, departments at odds with each other, poor communication between sections, things like that.

      Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

    2. Kathenus*

      In addition to Your Weird Uncle’s great ideas, highlight the initiative that you’ve shown in seeking out and completing management courses, including noting that your current bosses have noted that you’ve been successfully integrating the information learned. Since the hiring manager likes mentoring new managers, expressing that this is one of the aspects of the position that appeals to you, and that you’re excited for the opportunity to learn from them and others in the organization to continue your growth and development. Good luck!

  171. J*

    Hopefully not too late to get a response. Does anyone work in Boston in financial services? I work in a southern city and we are more business casual down here. I wear black dress pants and blousy tops to work, but can wear short sleeves in the summer, no blazer unless it’s a meeting with Very Important Manager, etc.

    I’m traveling to Boston for work in mid-September and wondering if I need to wear hosiery under a dress/skirt? I wore black tights when I went to NYC in February but that was easier to justify with the weather. I just don’t like hose but I don’t want to go bare-legged if it will be frowned upon.

    1. overeducated*

      I used to work in downtown Boston (pretty recently), in a less conservative field than financial services, but I almost never saw anyone ELSE on the street or the train in hosiery. You could always bring a pair in your bag just in case, tights pack well.

  172. Golden Bulldog*

    How do I approach my co-worker about his gas passing habits? All of the times in the past he’s denied it. I’ll say things like, “Wow, is that smell coming from your cubicle?”, “Coworker, are you passing gas? That smells horrible.” etc., and he says he doesn’t smell anything. There is no other place the smell can come from and it makes me feel sick to smell. There is no way I can move offices so we’re stuck together. He has a lot of other issues too but there’s nothing I can do about it.

    1. Rainy, not-PI*

      I think I’d make one more attempt, and do it not in the moment, but at some point when he has not just farted on you.

      “Coworker, it seems like you have a gas problem. I don’t want to embarrass you, but your gas is incredibly distracting to me, and I need you to go fart in the hall in the future, because it’s really causing problems with my ability to stay on task.”

      If he responds poorly, I think it’s time to escalate this to your boss.

    2. fposte*

      If you have an action you’d like him to take, ask him to take it. Is this rare enough that you can suggest he step into the bathroom? Then suggest that. But you can’t tell him to stop farting or to make his farts smell different. “Coworker, are you passing gas?” is not an actionable statement. Ask for what you want.

    3. Fabulous*

      As much as I agree this sucks, he may have no control over when it happens. I know I don’t! It’s not a medical issue either, it just comes out when it comes out. Sometimes I have warning and can move to another room, other times I cannot. Other than changing his diet considerably, he may not be able to help this issue…

    4. PU*

      It’s possible your co-worker denies it because he feels embarrassed. Honestly, your comments to him seem borderline rude.

      1. Nacho*

        Yeah. I’ve got a minor gas issue too, and I know I’d be super embarrassed if anyone pointed it out to me. It’s not like there’s anything I can reasonably do about it either. You might just have to suck it up and live with it.

    5. Chaordic One*

      I had a coworker with this problem who kept scented candles at her desk until they were banned from the office for being a fire hazard.

    6. Anon Accountant*

      Late to this post but honestly your comments seem a little rude. I know how frustrating it is. It he may have an embarrassing medical condition. In the meantime how about a mildly scented glade plug-in? A small car hanging scented air freshener? Bath & Body Works had small clip on air freshness in light scents. They used to and still may.

  173. Blah (currently feeling)*

    I had an interview last week that I was very excited about, and they said it’d be 5-7 business days and I haven’t heard anything. I’ve emailed them and got no response (I was on a camping trip, so I wanted to make sure there wasn’t any confusion when I didn’t have service), so now I’m waiting. AHHHHH I WANT THIS JOB SO BADLY. There’s still a few more rounds of interviews, but I’m starting to lose hope. :(

  174. Triplestep*

    How would you prepare for a second interview during which you will meet two would-be co-workers and you are afraid of alienating one of them?

    I am over fifty and female. I enunciate (thanks Mom!) and have a good vocabulary which can sometimes combine to make me come across as stodgy and too buttoned up. I’ve also been dinged for being too direct (“tone”).

    In the past I’ve had to work hard to win over Office Mom types in administrative roles, and if my cyber-stalking and profiling is correct, that’s how one of the two might be characterized. Part of it may be that my skill set is typically unique to the team I am working with. Or it might be my background in a male dominated field. I think I come across as not needing mothering. I tend to see Office Mom types as preferring youger women, or men of any age. (My husband has one). I’m not suggesting this is conscious or intentional, but I fear I won’t have time to win her over.

    This is a small close knit team composed of this woman, a male who is senior to her, and the hiring manager, a woman who is younger than all of us. I am worried about her seeing me as not fitting in. The hiring manager spoke glowingly of her, and I know her opinion is valued.

    Ideas?

    1. fposte*

      I gotta say, I’m raising an eyebrow at your leap to categorization here. Maybe back up and let the dynamics play out rather than making assumptions? If you know your tone isn’t always well received, be precise with niceties as well as opinions, but there’s no need to become somebody you wouldn’t be on the job. And don’t overfocus on one co-worker when you’re meeting with two.

      And I say all of this as a card-carrying buttoned-up fiftysomething myself. You’re overbuttoning here :-).

      2. Triplestep*

        Thanks the feedback – I appreciate it. I know I can manage my tone for an hour, but I can’t obviously become anything other than an over 50 female, and that – in itself – may make a different candidate more favored. Nothing I can do about that, but there might be other ways to be more appealing. I’m not worried about the other co-worker because we have more in common professionally, and know people in common (probably more than just the handful of connections on Linkedin). The trick will be to NOT focus on those things so much that they alienate the female co-worker.

        I think the only choice in these situations is to let things play out, but the common wisdom (and Alison’s advice) is to research the company and interviewers beforehand; I think that “making assumptions” is what comes of researching. Otherwise, why do it?

    2. Kathenus*

      fposte makes some great observations. My suggestion is to be yourself. You can be aware of how you come across and try to be mindful of that during the interview, but in getting to my own fifty-something age, I’ve (finally) learned how important the two-way component of the interview is. You are looking for a fit for you as well as trying to see if you’re a fit for them. If these will be your coworkers, be yourself, because that’s who you’ll be if you’re hired. Finding out if the coworker dynamic is comfortable or not is important for them and for you to see if this is the right fit for both parties.

      1. Triplestep*

        Good points, thanks. The first interview (with the hiring manager) was a very easy conversation, and I left feeling like I’d been myself, so that bodes well. You’re right – I don’t want to join a small team where dynamic would be poor. (That would be frying pan into fire!)

  175. The Queen of Cans & Jars*

    I’m looking for a job that’s 4 days a week instead of 5. I could work 5 if I had to, but 4 would give me the time I need to build my side business. Do you think there’s any issue with applying for jobs that are listed as F/T, and then asking about the possibility of working 4 days (with the salary lowered accordingly) at an interview? On a related note, instead of negotiating for a higher salary if a job offers less than I can accept, would it be weird to say I could take that salary for 4 days a week instead of 5?

    1. un-titled anon*

      I don’t have much experience with this but know several people who’ve done a four-day schedule, but with 10-hour days instead of 8? It may not be ideal for you (a ten hour day wipes me out) but it might be more attractive to an employer to keep a position full-time that way.

      1. Nacho*

        I know that’s pretty common in customer service, because we need specific hours filled. I’m pretty sure exempt employees can do something like that too, where they set their own schedule.

        1. Anna Held*

          If you’re working 10 hour days, though, depending on how much sleep you need and what your commute’s like, you’re really going to need that 5th day for personal errands. Meaning, with a one hour commute working 8-6 you’re out from 7-7. You won’t have a lot of time to cook dinner or do a load of wash or stop at the store or go to the gym or any of the dozen other things people routinely do after work. You have to get it all done on the free day, plus plan out all your meals and get a bunch of cooking done (unless you’re ok with lots of take out). It’ll depend on the specifics, but to some extent you’re always going to have extra tasks on your “day off”, and you’ll be exhausted at the end of the week. If you can find something part time at 25-30 hours, it’d be better.

  176. Shellesbelles*

    So, it may be too late in the day to get an answer, but I thought I’d try.

    Does anyone here suffer from brain fog? Any tips for how to deal with it at work?

    Ever since I started this job, I feel like I’ve been functioning in a haze. I’m following up with my doctor, as it could be a number of things (complications from depression, stress related, vitamin deficiency, hormone issues, other illness, etc.), but I’m not sure how to manage it in the interim. I’m normally a very sharp, organized person, but at this workplace I feel like I’m swimming through molasses all day. I forget lots of things in a way that feels largely out of character for me.

    1. fposte*

      Don’t forget sleep deprivation. Take the phone out of the bedroom, too.

      If forgetting is your primary problem, find a memory prompt, whether it be a checklist, a diary, Trello, whatever. Rely on it instead of your brain, and put everything in it immediately when the assignment or date comes up. Find a format that you will have visible to you at all times.

      Structure the hell out of your day. Do you have goals for a day and for a week that you can be pleased about meeting? If not, make some. Achievement breeds achievement, and it’s better to keep it small than large. For most people, keeping your list in a way that you can see all that you’ve achieved once it’s checked off is a real boost. Basically, your goal is to autopilot yourself as much as possible until you can get some traction.

      Also, get up and walk around the building; go get a drink of water; take a moment to stand up and stretch. Do one of those every two hours at least; preferably every hour if you can get back into the groove fast enough afterwards.

      None of this is magic, but it might help enough to keep you sliding by until things get better. Good luck!

    2. Fabulous*

      I was in a fog for most of my high school and never realized it, so good for you for noticing feeling out of sorts. I think for me it was depression related, which again I didn’t realize I was depressed at the time, or really until I came out of it years later. It was literally like a cloud lifted. Strangest feeling ever.

      As for how to deal with it at work… I’m not sure. I just kept my head down and kept working. Made lots of lists and set automated reminders so I didn’t forget things, which I still do to this day.

      Good luck!

    4. Chaordic One*

      The other commenters have mentioned all the usual pieces of good and sound advice, so do try to follow it. Most of my comments echo what they say. Outside of work try to get some exercise so your blood gets flowing. (Something like a good brisk walk for at least half an hour.) Then eat right and get enough sleep.

      At work, try to keep checklists and diaries to keep on track. Stay hydrated. If you can, take a short walk during your breaks. (I can easily walk out of the building where I work and I take a walk around the block, but I know not everyone has that as an option.) The same at lunch time. Try to avoid heavy lunches. Finally, I find it helpful to have a small electric fan on my desk. It makes the room seem cooler and helps me stay awake.

      Coffee is generally not a good band-aid in situations like this.

    5. Anxa*

      I think I may have have dysthymia and have had brain fog (or some other form of mental clutter) ever since middle school, in varying degrees.

      I don’t think it would be so bad if I didn’t remember what it was like to feel clear headed. Also, about once a month I’ll have a day where I don’t feel foggy and it’s so horrible because it’s almost always on a day I can’t take advantage of it, and it reminds me of how much more productive I could be if I didn’t feel like my head was full of chowder.

      I’ve also questioned whether or not I had DSPD, ADHD, hypothyroidism (although my last blood panel was normal, so I’m ruling that out now), if it’s my low vitD or anxiety.

      I do best at work when I’m in a job where I’m moving around doing things. That isn’t always ideal though because I’m not always skilled in those positions either. For example, I wasn’t the best server, but at least I’m moving around. I’m not the best at what I do now, but at least I’m moving around. I tutor, too, and I much prefer busy days to slow days because I don’t always get through my ‘when I have time” list due to the fogginess.

  177. Underpaid Bookkeeper*

    So I finally got the courage to ask my boss for a raise. At first I think she thought it was too much of one but I had given her a list of things I did and she added some and she has to go to her boss for approval and is going to call her next week and see what she says.

    It’s hard because I like this job but I’m underpaid. I’m making $11 and I asked for $15. I did tell her the industry average was $15 and at first I don’t think she believed me or cared but then she said she was going to tell her boss that. So I guess we’ll see what she says and I’ll take it from there. I guess in the end it is going to depend on how much she cares if I leave or not and what kind of mood her boss is in when she talks to her.

    She’s always telling me how much she values me and how I keep her on top of things. B/c then she tried to say that I can come and go as I please/have flexible hours as a way that the low pay is okay…idk it’s hard when you know what people that do lower things than you make more. Like there are people in the kitchen with higher pay. But you can’t really use that in a salary negotiation.

    I’m also going to start pursuing more more freelance work as well as a way to supplement my income. Because I’ve gotten so good at my job that I have it down to a science and could probably do it in 4 days.

    2. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      Good for you for asking for a raise! $11/hr seems shockingly low to me, even with flexible hours. Are you job searching? If they deny your raise request, I think getting a job elsewhere might be your best bet. Unless there’s something about this particular place that makes the low pay worth it, of course.

      1. Underpaid Bookkeeper*

        Yeah, I’m basically job searching but I haven’t found much. My issue is right now I work literally 15 minutes from my house (some days I can get to work even faster depends on traffic). Most of the jobs I find are a good 45 minutes to an hour and fifteen-minute commute from my house. I feel like if I went to one of those jobs at $15/hour that most of my increase in pay would go towards gas and then I’d have a long commute so it’s kinda not worth it.

        The thing that gets frustrating is I know how much everyone is paid including my boss but I cant really use that in a salary negotiation.

  178. President Porpoise*

    Tangential to this week’s discussion regarding the ethics of firing protestors…

    Our beloved leader (cough cough) is coming to Phoenix this week for some sort of rally. I live a couple hours away, and I am really, really tempted to leave work early to go and protest. Is this a valid reason to take time off from work? I mean, obviously this crap is very important, but I’ve never done this before and I don’t know the protocol.

    1. Dankar*

      Didn’t the governor or mayor ask him to delay the visit? I would keep my fingers crossed that he does.

      Otherwise, I don’t think you need to give a reason as to why you’re taking the hours off. Just, “I’m taking part in an event (or protest, if your supervisor is cool with details like that)” or “I’m participating with a local activist group and need to leave a few hours early on x day.”

      Regardless of how you frame it, stay safe if you go! I admire your drive to protest when things have gotten so out of hand lately.

    2. De Minimis*

      In related news, the city where I work has been the battleground for protests this entire year, and this looks to continue to be the case. So far, nothing has happened to interfere with my commute or my safety, but I’m wondering if things may reach the point where I might ask to go home early if it looks like things are escalating [they’ve closed our subway station before due to protests.] I wonder what the protocol might be for that….

      The two major ones they’ve had here where there was serious damage/transit system shutdowns were on a weekend or during late evening. I was super anxious about the last one that was during a weekday, but it was peaceful [think the other side elected to peacefully counterprotest due to the location being right next to a school that was in session.] I expect it to get worse, though…

    3. LCL*

      Any reason is valid to take vacation, or no reason, as long as your job can spare you. Just don’t fib and call out sick, that will be hard to explain if you are seen on the news.

    4. Nacho*

      Depends on where you work. Everywhere I’ve ever worked, I was trusted to use my PTO however I wanted. I’m using it right now just because I feel like it, and your reason’s a lot better than that. Just make sure you get it approved before hand and I doubt anyone will mind.

  179. Me--Blargh!*

    Still nothing from that proofreading job, and it’s been over two weeks since the interview and I followed up after a week. They have not reposted it to my knowledge, so I guess they either hired somebody for the cheap salary they were paying or kept the freelancers. It was too low for me to say it was okay for a salaried position doing the work for three offices, so I guess I shot myself in the foot saying I was hoping for more money. Oh well.

    I went back to applying out of state again, even though my escape funds are dwinding and I don’t know how I would / could swing an in-person interview, let alone a move. But who knows. Nobody is calling me so why should I even worry about it now? :P

    Also, I got another book rejection today. Bummer. But it was a very nice one. The query is better, apparently (“I was excited by your concept and it’s clear you put a lot of effort and passion into this process but I struggled to get into it”) so I guess my writing is what sucks. :P I think I’m going to have to do some major revision again, especially at the beginning of the book, which is where samples come from. *sigh*

    1. Rainy, not-PI*

      I’m sorry to hear this. Best of luck in your job search!

      At my institution, they often schedule phone or skype interviews for out of state candidates, so probably that wouldn’t be the bar you think, for some employers at least.

      1. Me--Blargh!*

        If I can even get one! :P I’m right in between being underqualified for the jobs I would like to have and overqualified for the jobs I can get.

        1. Rainy, not-PI*

          Oh yes, I was there when I left my doctoral program. Everything I had the educational qualifications for I didn’t have enough qualifying experience–everything else I was way overqualified for. I had to take a band-aid job in retail management (I was honest that I needed full time employment, so the store manager knew I was not staying long), and then I ended up taking a job I was massively overqualified for. I was in that role for less than a year and was given a giant promotion (I ended up supervising my previous supervisor).

          The unemployment part of that was pretty rough. I sent out hundreds of applications, and got first and sometimes second interviews and kept just missing out on the job, usually to people with more recent relevant experience

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      I really hope things look up for you soon. I always look out for your updates on your search.

        1. ..Kat..*

          I always look forward to your comments and insight. I keep sending you good thoughts and internet hugs.

    3. Lizcat*

      Have you looked into any remote or freelance positions? Proofreading has a lot of opportunity for that.

      Do you have beta readers for your books? Can you get an outside editor? Fresh set of eyes always helps me.

  180. Education of Betty*

    I have a big dilemma. I currently have a job where I love the organization and love the work. I’ve been consistently recognized for my contributions by leadership. However, the pay is quite low (it’s a non-profit) and two of my peers have been bullying me about my weight and positive attitude.

    A few weeks ago I applied for a job on a whim, after seeing a job that a friend posted on Facebook. It’s not in the same field per se, but it’s another non-profit which does work I find important. The biggest plus is that is pays double what my current position does! Today I got an email asking me to come in for an interview, and I said yes, I would go in.

    Now I’m sweating bullets. I love the work I’m doing now so much, but if I assess the situation fairly, I probably just finished the biggest project I’ll ever have the opportunity to do in my current position. I love most of my coworkers, and except for the bullies I work with occasionally, I’m extremely happy there. I just don’t know how to make this decision. I’d be an excellent fit for the place I’m interviewing but I don’t want to lead them on if I’m really not ready to accept an offer.

    1. overeducated*

      At least give this other position a chance by interviewing, you’ll get a much better picture of the job then. It’s not “leading them on” any more than them interviewing you but hiring another candidate would be leading you on. Change is scary but twice as much money is huge and it doesn’t sound like you have much room for growth in your current job, plus it has bullies. Good luck in the interview!

    2. LCL*

      Opportunities at your present employer are narrowing, you have a couple jerk coworkers, and you have a better offer that pays double. Why would you stay? If the prospective job turns out to be as presented, it sounds like a great opportunity. I caution you that jerk coworkers are at every job, and it’s not worth leaving a great job over them, but this sounds like a new opportunity and you are able to continue working in the non profit world.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        My thoughts too. I’ve noticed a few posts like this on these threads and I wonder if it’s more about a fear of change – that taking on a new job feels like a risk, like going double or quits. But it’s sounding like a no brainer, just one that involves a leap into the unknown.

    3. beanie beans*

      Whatever happens, can you go to your supervisor to let them know you’re being bullied? They need to know! You shouldn’t have to leave a job that you love because of two jerks, and they may be bullying others. For yourself and for future employees there, I hope you can talk to someone about what you’re experiencing.

  181. Kately*

    I GOT A JOB OFFER! It’s for a term position, not the permanent I was hoping for. I asked them if I could have until Monday to think it over and they agreed. I’ve turned it over and decided to go for it – and now they’re out of office! My terrible jerkbrain is telling me they’re going to rescind it since I didn’t agree immediately this morning when they called. I’m pretty sure my brain is wrong on this one, but I’d like to have it nailed down before I go on holiday next week!

    A sincere thanks to Alison and the commentariat for providing support and encouragement directly and indirectly. It has been a long couple of years and I’ve appreciated this community.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      You asked to have until Monday. They’ll be looking for your reply on Monday. You know nobody would put an auto reply on just to hint they’ve rejected you, so tell your jerkbrain that!

  182. Annie Mouse*

    Lessons learnt this week at work, always trusr my gut! Especially when my gut is saying ‘I don’t like this, something isn’t right’. Even better was the fact that my crewmate and I had a conversation going “I’m just debating getting some help, but I don’t have a good reason”, “no, I agree with you completely”, “Can I really request help based off my gut?” “Yes.”
    I love working together!
    The other lesson was that it’s better to look silly for being over cautious than to look stupid for not being cautious enough.

    1. R2D2*

      The other lesson was that it’s better to look silly for being over cautious than to look stupid for not being cautious enough. Absolutely!

  183. kirbyjane*

    I just got offered my first supervisor position! Does anyone have some good book recommendations? Thanks

  184. RedBlueGreenYellow*

    Consider this scenario:

    You’re interviewing at a mid-sized company for a position on a team of 15 people (let’s say the teapot wrapping team). In the interview, you meet the hiring manager and a few representatives from other departments (HR, teapot production, and spout management). You are not given the chance to interact with any current members of the teapot wrapping team.

    Would you consider that a red flag?

    1. Nacho*

      Not really. Some companies let you interview with current members of the team, but I don’t think it’s common enough to raise flags if they don’t bother.

    2. beanie beans*

      I’ve never met any team members for jobs I’ve interviewed – I am sure some do, but it would be a huge time commitment to have them as part of the interview process, so I don’t think it’s a red flag. Good luck!

    3. Julianne*

      No, in my field that’s not entirely unheard of. (I do realize that other fields may differ though.) I definitely prefer being able to meet someone from the department I’m interviewing for, though!

  185. SophieChotek*

    Resume – Formatting Question

    I work remotely.

    A lot of resumes I have seen have an entry like:

    ABC Teapot Co., Any City, Any State
    Chief Teapot Maker (2015 – Present)

    For the location, because I work remote would you suggest

    ABC Teapot Co., Any City Any state (Remote work)
    or
    ABC Teapot Co., My City, My State

    All my address/contact info is local, so hopefully employers are not thinking I am not local.’
    Do you think this one line would be confusing/make a difference?

    1. Anna Held*

      I’d add the “remote work”. Err on the side of caution. OTOH, what’s most important is that you have your local address at the top. I make a lot of these types of nitpicky decisions based on formatting — what looks clean and is the most legible?

  186. char*

    I have a problem with a newish coworker on my team who’s asking way more questions than necessary (I’m the team lead). Of course, I’m happy to clarify anything that he doesn’t understand, but most of the time he’s just asking for my opinion on some small issue, and most of the time my answer boils down to, “Yup, you’re right. Add it to the log, thanks.” I already review all of his work before sending it on to the client, so there’s really no need to have an extended discussion about every single thing before he even logs for me to review. And it’s especially unnecessary because his judgements are pretty much always on-target anyway.

    I haven’t pushed back very hard so far because I actually really enjoy talking about this aspect of our work… but now it’s getting to the point where the constant interruptions are making it hard for me to get my own work done. Literally, he’s interrupting me every 10-15 minutes, and almost every time what should be a quick answer somehow becomes a several-minute-long discussion (partially due to my own long-windedness, I’m aware). It really breaks my focus. Today I got as much done in the 45 minutes after he left as I did the entire rest of the day.

    Is there a nice way I can ask him to cut back on the questions?

    1. R2D2*

      Can you ask him to compile his questions for a scheduled 1:1 meeting with you? Maybe that would motivate him to suss out answers for himself.

    3. Nacho*

      If he’s asking questions that can be answered with a “you’re right”, he needs more confidence. Next time he asks you something, try asking what he thinks the answer is. Don’t tell him if he’s right or wrong, tell him to do what he thinks, and that you trust his judgement. Make sure he knows that you’ll back him up as long as he has a good reason for doing anything, and if he ever does anything you’d rather he not, you’ll tell him, but there won’t be any consequences as long as he had a good reason. If you’ve got one, give him an example of a time someone in the past royally fucked up, but wasn’t punished because it was a reasonable mistake.

    4. Stellaaaaa*

      This is one of those things that employees start to see as a normal way of doing things if that’s what their previous manager wanted. You’re going to have to train it out of him. He might think it’s a norm, and you’re kind of validating it by telling him he’s right about his instincts.

    5. char*

      Thank you all for the advice! Just to clarify, I’m not his manager; I’m just the lead on this project. (We have the same manager.) It’s also very unusual for people in my role to take people aside for 1:1 meetings, so I’m worried that it might make the situation look worse than it is to others if I did so in this case… I might have to anyway, though.

      1. LazyGirl*

        I’ve been the junior employee who needed 1:1 time with the project lead and I much preferred having regular time set aside for going over my questions. I think I was the only one who did this and I don’t recall any else even noticing. We were just being efficient!

        Likely newish employee is aware that he’s interrupting you, but not sure what to do instead. Schedule some time and ask him to save up his questions.

  187. Bona fide*

    I am interested in getting some IT certifications/training as potential backup or for side work. I have a degree and a career in a completely different field with no connection to IT at all. What would be a good step for me to take if I wanted to do some side work (like repairing computers) or even needed to change fields? I’ve looked into the CompTia A+ but not sure of it will accomplish what I want it to. Thanks in advance.

  188. Bostontown*

    I’d like someone to be my sounding board. I will travel to an annual conference on a Sunday with an intense meeting schedule on Monday and Tuesday, flying back home Tuesday night. My company will host a one day conference on the Saturday, and my manager has told me I am encouraged to attend, but if it’s inconvenient it’s also fine. The conference is slightly related to what I do, but not really and I could not use the content of the speeches in my daily work. I told my manager I don’t think it’s relevant and that I would rather be there from Sunday only. He said it’s fine but I could see he wasn’t happy with my response. Should I attend?

    He will not attend himself for personal reasons. My main reason for not attending is that I would be working 14 days in a row. I would be able to take days in lieu at some point, but because of work commitments it would not be immediately the day after returning home. I am trying to keep my stress levels down and focus on doing my job well. I don’t quite understand why he thought I should attend, but maybe there is something I don’t grasp. Obviously other people from my company will attend, either because they are speakers or the topics are directly related to their work.

    1. Apollo Warbucks*

      Maybe your boss liked the idea of having your team represented at the event on Saturday, or wanted you to go so you could report back on the talks you saw in lieu of him being able to go, or he didn’t think it was much a problem asking you to go Saturday as you’d be there in Sunday anyway, or he thinks it would be a good career / net working opportunity for you.

      Not wanting to work 14 days straight is perfectly reasonable, so I wouldn’t worry about not going if it was presented as optional.

  189. broken_teapot_engineer*

    I guess I might be too late to the party for anybody to see this, but if anybody does: any tips on how to stop tears at work? I work in an extremely stressful, unpredictable, fast paced environment, and sometimes I tear up when I get teapot design issue #25 thrown at me (shockingly, a #1 priority, along with design issues 1-24 I am trying to get done the same day). I don’t really even know why- I guess it’s a combination of feeling stressed out, tired from long hours, lack of recognition from management about how overworked I am, and so on.
    I guess I am super emotional to begin with (I will literally tear up at cat food commercials), but this is just driving me nuts. I’m sure it’s unprofessional to do this, and I’m hoping somebody has a tip to help.

    1. Miss Mac*

      Hi there! I react the same way sometimes and for me, it helps when I imagine myself rocking the task to ridiculous levels! Like I create a project so great that the company uses it in all their training and it helps us bring in a huge sale or puts us so far ahead of the competition, and I get public recognition and awards! Lol, have faith in yourself.
      When it comes to being emotional in general, it’s ok. As long as you’re not turning into a weepy mess at work, I don’t think anyone is judging or notice. If you’re truly upset, give yourself 10 minutes to react then go kick butt!

    2. Daria Grace*

      I have the same problem. It’s not something I an stop entirely, but I find it’s important to deal with unnecessary overwhelm and emotional stimulus. For example, if I know I’ll have stressful discussions that afternoon at work, getting in Twitter debates or reading sad articles in my lunch break is unwise. As much as is possible getting enough sleep, moderating caffeine intake and good diet helps.

      Another thing that cam help is to try and mentally depersonalise the situation. What I mean by that is frame it as you all being actors playing your roles in a weirdly scripted setting rather than taking the office drama seriously

  190. Non-HR person*

    Unlimited vacation policy

    I am wondering if anyone here has any experience with unlimited vacation policy. My company introduced such policy 2 years ago and it was hailed as a great benefit to all. Basically, it does not specify any number of days one is entitled to. All employees must have a work plan and as long as they complete their tasks, they can in theory take as much leave as they want, if approved by their line managers and their absence will “not affect the relationship internally and externally”. This sounds great in theory but in practice, only those who have very specific and clear tasks and large teams to cover in absence, can benefit from it. Those in support function whose job is to provide continuous support to others cannot take advantage of it (e.g. there are only two receptionists and if one goes on holidays for a month, the other must provide cover. Or there is only one assistant to the CEO). Or some teams have far more on their plate than others and “cannot afford to take a leave”, especially during certain times (e.g. closing of financial year). You can imagine that this is causing a lot of jealousy and bickering among our staff.

    Does anyone have a positive experience with such policy and can you share do’s and dont’s? It would be also great to hear from Alison on this.

  191. Update question*

    Hi. Today my colleague was showing me the UV ray protective sun blanket she purchased for her cousin as a birthday gift [her cousin has had skin cancer in the past]. It reminded me of the letter from the Manager who had the report that would walk around wrapped in a blanket whenever they had to travel to meetings at other locations. The report would also wear hats and use an umbrella.

    Was there ever an update to that letter? I’m curious if the manager talked to the report and if so what happened.

    Thank-you

  192. Daria Grace*

    Our office has had a lot of weird politics and drama lately. My manager has decided that somehow making everyone talk about things they’re grateful for at staff meeting once a week will improve things. I find this a weirdly personal thing to bring into staff meetings. I know a staff member who is currently dealing with some tragic personal situations finds the forced positivity difficult. Should we push back on this or just try to accept that it’s a manager’s prerogative to introduce whatever pop psychology initiatives they like?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I would push back, politely. Point out that people might be struggling in their personal lives and it’s a little too personal for a work environment.

      Or just make up some funny ones.

      1. Daria Grace*

        I’m pondering doing ones that are so petty as to be absurd (eg. I got a window seat on the train this morning” )

        1. Rainy, not-PI*

          “The texture and quality of my morning BM has been STELLAR lately.” Go into detail. Say you have photos.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Tweak the question? “What are you grateful for about your job/workplace?”

      I would point out to the boss that there are some people who are not at a good spot in life right now and forcing them to talk about that might be a bad plan.

      “I am grateful my mother did not die on the OR table last week, like the doc thought she would.”
      “I am grateful that the man who ran over my dog stopped and apologized and paid for cremation.”
      “I am grateful for finding a good attorney to help us with our medical bill induced bankruptcy.”

      I would actually use examples like this so the boss can clearly see what a can of worms he is opening.

  193. Office Romantic*

    Thoughts please! Is it ever a good idea to date a co-worker?? I have a crush on one and even though we work in different departments (me marketing, him sales) we are in the same office. My company has no policy on dating and I’ve seen others enter relationships. Some have resulted in awkward aftermath. (One did result in marriage so…) I can’t help but feel like it’s a bad idea because we do work in the same office and if something goes wrong, it would be weird. Is it ever a good idea to date in office or should I just keep fantasizing?

    1. Daria Grace*

      If you’re really great for each other and not breaking any rules, it might be worth dealing with the awkwardness, but you do need to think it through. What happens if a rearrangement of the reporting structure puts you both in the same team? What if the company goes out of business leaving both of you unemployed at the same time? Can you be disciplined enough to not let work gossip and discussion take over your personal lives?

      1. Office Romantic*

        Well I guess that is another problem. We are a SMALL office. So far other coworkers don’t mention any relationships to those in it, but we do talk about them when they’re not around. Not so much gossip, just ‘are they dating? yes they are. oh surprising!’ kind of thing. So people would talk, but I’m not sure it would be negative.
        Structure is virtually impossible, I work for corporate and he just works for the branch. But you do raise a good point with the job situation. Thank you. So personally, you think it’s a bad idea?

        1. Daria Grace*

          I’m not sure that it’s inherently a bad idea, but it’s definitely one that needs to be approached with great caution

  194. Just Me Here*

    TL::DR – My coworker used my medical condition to have me pulled off a project we were supposed to work on together. He went straight to our boss without talking to me, and I was subsequently taken off. Talking to him got nowhere. Should I talk to our supervisor so this does not happen again?

    Recently I had a medical emergency, which, had I not caught it in time, could have proven fatal. However, I worried about this pain I had and went to the ER. That was a month ago, and I am presently on the mend. Meanwhile, my doctor had put me on some restrictions for when I could go back to work. My job is physically demanding at times, and I had to be careful especially about not lifting anything over 20 pounds.

    It was in the talks that my coworker (“Lionel”) and I would be working on a project together at the end of August. Lionel hadn’t done much communicating with me about the task since he was the more experienced one for this particular project. I had, however, mentioned there was one little aspect I might not be able to do which he was fine with. After my “weekend” (we do not have traditional weekends as in Saturdays or Sundays and we have different “weekends” from one another), Lionel had told me he went to our supervisor (“Maria”) to ask her for me to be taken off the project entirely due to my medical restrictions. Lionel said that the project included a lot of heavy lifting, a detail he left out to me. He said he made sure Maria understood I was not the one backing out but rather that it was his idea. Maria made the schedule and put another coworker in what was supposed to have been my place. Maria has not said anything to me about this; this makes me wonder if he led her to believe I was okay with it and did not tell her he had not spoken to me.

    Lionel truly angered me. While I understand the concern he had presented, I do not appreciate one bit how he approached this. Truthfully, I come home crying every night because I hate this condition I have and I feel betrayed by a coworker/friend. I hadn’t seen Lionel for a couple of days due to his “weekend,” but today, I spoke to him about it. He believes he did nothing wrong because it was his project, that I was overreacting, and that I needed to let it go. I told him I understood his concerns but I didn’t feel it was his place to discuss my medical and my job behind my back. He just kept repeating himself and refused to even acknowledge/validate my perspective. He tried to use some psychology words on me, saying that I was projecting and being too sensitive. But he felt he did nothing wrong, especially I guess since Maria didn’t assign me to the project and took his replacement suggestion instead.
    I had asked a couple of other coworkers their opinion and opinions of family members. Everyone agrees with me. He should have talked to me to give me a chance to speak for myself rather than take matters in his own hands.

    Therefore my questions are: Was he wrong even if he did out of concern for my health? Am I overreacting?* Should I speak to Maria to tell her that I understand it is what it is but I still want to voice a grievance over how it came to be?** And did he cross any legal line here?

    *I know to some extent I am overreacting because this was a scary event in my life, and I just want everything to go back to normal. This is the most dangerous thing that has ever happened in my life, and I think wanting things to go back to normal is my way of coping. In my mind, my doctors putting restrictions on my life is taking control away from me, and it feels like my coworker added to that.

    **Had Lionel come to me from the beginning, I wholeheartedly believe I would have come to the same conclusion with him. But since he did not, while I still understand that part, I don’t agree with how he did it.

    1. LCL*

      In the absence of a well managed return to work policy, Lionel did the right thing. He even told you what he did and how and why. Where he screwed up was when you were rightfully upset about it, and he told you that you were being too sensitive. That never goes well.

      One thing that big government (TM) does well is the return work process. Here, when you returned with restrictions, you would have told your manager. Manager would have handed this to HR, HR would have asked you for a doctor’s form (HR provides the form) listing your restrictions, then asked your manager if she had work for you within the restrictions. This protects the worker from doing more than their medical restrictions allow, possibly being reinjured, and from being assigned work by the manager intended to break you down and/or drive you out of the job. It hopefully protects the company from your case worsening and becoming a serious time loss or in worst case fatality.

      You can vent here, I totally get that you are dealing with a life altering illness and are losing some agency. And Lionel was a tad patronizing, but in the end he did the honorable thing instead of running you off the job.

      1. Just Me Here*

        I gave a medical note to Maria and she has been abiding by it. I can do almost all of my job and I have not asked for any special favors (except maybe ask someone to get a heavy box off of a high shelf).

        I totally get Lionel being honorable, but considering being long time coworkers and friends, I would have expected him to even pick up the phone and call me or pull me aside at lunch to say something. I might’ve been disappointed for a brief moment, but I would’ve understood. But instead, he went straight to Maria and told me after the fact.

        To further point out his lack of communication, he never really went over the details of the project at all until now that I questioned him on it.

        He was really nasty too this morning. He was like “I don’t need your permission about my project!” We take leads on certain tasks, but I have always been of the belief that the buck stops at our boss.

        1. Anna Held*

          He’s been more than a tad patronizing. You have to talk to Maria, but she’s part of the problem too. However, you need to ensure that you’re not losing out on projects because people continue to treat you like a delicate flower. You need to be frank with her about what you can and can’t do, and when you’re likely to be feeling better.

          You also need to let her know that you don’t appreciate how this was handled. Keep it off emotions and even your health, and on the work. You need the specs of a job you’re being asked to take on. You need to be looped in when you’re being discussed. Your colleague should not be making work decisions for you. He should definitely not be making health decisions for you. There should be a better method of communicating who gets put on what project and what the project is (why isn’t any of this in writing, and done by a regular process?)

          Of course, Maria sounds like part of the problem. She not only had this conversation, but didn’t tell you about it, just let Lionel? There’s no process like LCL described? Communication and procedure are not taken seriously? I’d while away my extra hours by looking at job boards and brushing up my resume.

        2. tigerStripes*

          He should have talked to you first. Still, it sounds like you should be off the project for your own safety. Take care of yourself!

    2. HannahS*

      Yes, he was wrong, no you’re not overreacting. I have no idea about legal stuff, but making a decision about your medical ability to do a job without ASKING you for details about your ability to do a job seems really problematic. Even if what he did was allowed, it’s still incredibly inappropriate to not even give you a courtesy, “Hey, project X requires a lot of heavy lifting, so I’m afraid I’m going to have to take you off of it.” (Also, is this a thing where they should have worked with you to find accommodation? As in, an ADA-protected thing, like where you’re temporarily disabled and they can’t just take whole projects away? I’m not a lawyer and not American so I really hope someone else can weigh in.)

      As for talking to Maria, I’m not really sure how you could phrase it–it’s hard, because she was party to it. If it turns out that there aren’t any legal issues and it was just massively inconsiderate, maybe something like, “I know that this development in my health means that some of my tasks will need to be reassigned until I’ve recovered. However, when I initially told Lionel about my medical restrictions, he felt that it wouldn’t pose a problem. I am uncomfortable with the fact that he later had concerns, and discussed my health and my ability to work on Project X with you without talking to me first. I’ve told him that I don’t want these kinds of discussions to exclude me completely or happen without my knowledge, and I hope that if it happens again, you’ll come to me to make sure you’re getting a full picture of what’s going on.”

    4. Not So NewReader*

      It looks like he put more thought in it AFTER he talked with you.

      While not handled that gracefully, I would expect something like this.

      I fell off a bike at 60 mph years ago. I was okay basically but really banged up. I lost six weeks from work. Through out those six weeks I kept saying, “Am I going to lose my job?” It was through discussions that I learned the employer can fire me. And through more discussion, I learned they could hold A JOB open for me, not my job.

      Employers are going to chose to put employees where they know the employee will not get further injuries. It’s their call. No matter how much we protest it’s still their call. In my case they gave me a tangent job. I was pretty upset. My husband said, “How much did you make at the Old Task?” I made X. “Uh-huh. How much money do you make at the New Task?” The same, X. “Then don’t worry about it. Just do your best.”

      I would go back to the doc and tell him what his note has cost you. Ask him if the restrictions were absolutely necessary or just “nice to do”. I do agree that docs do not realize how their notes can really make or break our lives.
      As far as Lionel, try to think of him as being between a rock and a hard place. When I have supervised, I absolutely HAD to tell my boss about any of the subordinates’ injuries from either the job or injuries incurred during off hours. Lionel has been place in charge of this project, while not your boss, he is in charge of how things go under his watch. He really had no choice but to report it. Yes, definitely he could have handled it much better.
      Yeah, the whole thing sucks.

  195. Ajaya*

    If you apply for a job via email, should your cover letter be included within the body of the email or as an attachment?

    1. alice*

      I really don’t think it matters. If they say “attach a coverletter” then I do that, but ordinarily I just include it in the body of the email.

  196. Interviewing people in POLAND*

    I was hoping anyone with knowledge of hiring in POLAND could help me.

    My group is hiring a new person in Poland and I have no idea what the norms are for interviews, questions, or anything having to do with hiring. If you know the norms in the US, could you compare and contrast them? Or, if you don’t know the US, just let me know any important things we should keep in mind as we interview our potential hires?

    Thanks!

    1. Stellaaaaa*

      I know someone who is from Poland and works for a Swiss company that lands him in the US every few months, so take this with as much salt as you feel is necessary.

      According to him, it’s somewhat common for people in that region to take “conversation lessons.” They’ll pay someone to come over and talk in casual English, or even chat over skype. I have no sense of how universal this is, but depending on your field you may be tapping into a pool of candidates who already have a good feel for how an interview with an American-English speaker is going to play out.

      1. Interviewing people in POLAND*

        Thanks. Their written English has been superb so far. I am looking forward to speaking with them.

    2. Poland reply*

      This is difficult to determine as you do not specify the post or the field or whether this person would be working on Poland or in the USA or where in Poland this interview takes place. Poland is a big country with regional differences, big cities and the capital Warsaw are pretty much the same as anywhere in the EU. Also, there would be somewhat different things to keep in mind if you are hiring e.g. a manger or someone to work in a nursing home.

      In general, I would suggest to approach this in a same way as in the USA. Avoid any patronising attitude which sadly is not uncommon among Americans towards “Eastern European”. Be aware that many Polish people speak English with an accent but this does not mean they are stupid or do not understand you. Quite contrary. University educated Polish people are usually much better educated and speak few languagues better, apart of their Polish mother tongue. They often get surprised that their fellow American peers would only speak English. Do not confuse them with the Russians, or do not try to practice your Russian with them. There is a sore history with Russia and Poland was a part of the Soviet zone, though it was not a part of the Soviet Union. You would be surprised how many Americans do not realize this.

      For university graduates, it is common to work during the studies. Not unpaid internship, but really working part time in their respective field so they would have some experience under their belt when graduating.

      Also, Polish people tend to be more formal than in the USA. In Polish, this is also reflected in addressing colleagues (similar to tu and vous in French). They typically dress up for work, and this would be case for a job interview. So no casual clothing for the interview. It is not unusual for Polish men to kiss women’s hand when meeting in formal situation. Keep also in mind that Poland is a rather homogenous and conservative society and in many parts of Poland, people are not used to people of different ethnicities or LGBTI people. This comes with a lot of prejudices but often the reason is the lack of exposure.

      Because Poland is a part of the EU, very strict anti-discrimination regulations apply, which of course does not mean they are rigorously enforced. As such, it is illegal to discriminate on various grounds, in particular gender. As compared to the USA, people would also take certain “benefits” for granted, such as annual leave (often 25 days a year) or long maternity leave (up to 3 years) or free health care, even for dentist (due to mandatory state health insurance). So if this is a job in the USA, what you might consider great benefits is something that many Polish people might find shockingly inadequate.

      However, without knowing the context and more about the field, it is difficult not to resort to generalization.

      Hope this helps

      1. Interviewing people in POLAND*

        Thank you so much. The role is in a manufacturing setting (engineer) who would work in Poland. The location is Katowice.

        You’ve been a lot of help!

        1. Poland reply*

          In that case, just treat it as in any interview in the USA. Katowice is one of the most touristy places in Poland and with amount of tourists they get, I would be surprised if someone working in engineering and applying for a job in the US company was not thoroughly westernised. Also, in Poland, there is no such division between “technical” subjects and “humanities”, in fact till the end of high school, so people with technology and engineering background are pretty well oriented in general subjects. There are many opportunties for international exchanges for them as well. Good luck

    3. Pole*

      I’m Polish.

      I wouldn’t ask any questions about the current salary. I have been asked about the salary I make by American recruiters and always saw it as a very invasive question I’m not comfortable to answer. The company that asks it loses a lot in my eyes. The question is not normal in many European countries. Ask about salary expectations instead.

      Also, references are not very popular, so if you ask people for contact to their references they may be surprised or even withdraw their applications since they won’t know who they should contact for that. That’s even more serious a problem if they are currently employed and can’t give you contact to their current bosses.

      Apart from that I don’t see many differences. One cultural difference may be that we don’t smile as much and don’t normally try to be so cheerful as US Americans, so if you are very American in this respect you may think that your Polish applicants are very introverted or shy.

      1. Interviewing people in POLAND*

        Thanks so much! I would never ask anyone about salary, so that’s not a problem. (I read AAM, after all!) References is interesting, though. I never would’ve thought of that. Thanks! And thanks for the information about the smiling — I will listen to what they say and not fixate on their faces at the moment (at least try not to let myself interpret it to their detriment). Thanks, again.

    4. European*

      The Poles are known for being extremely resourceful and are famous for technical and engineering skills (famous Polish builders or plumbers). You will also find many more women in engineering as the communists required everyone to work and technical universities were considered less ideologically tainted so many oleo pls preferred them. So the Poles and people from former communist countries don’t understand the recent Google diversity scandal and wonder why there would be less women in tech. I agree with the previous post that this should be approached as a standard USA interview.

  197. Anna Kay*

    I’m a recent college graduate very new to the professional world. I recently interviewed for a position at a small non-profit in my field. I didn’t end up getting the job, which was fine with me, as it became apparent during the interview that I had misunderstood some key aspects of the position, that it had no history of upward mobility into positions more relevant to my interests, and that I most likely would not have been very happy in that role. However, I remember thinking as I waited to hear back from them, “It doesn’t sound like it’d be a good fit, but the pay is good, there’s benefits, and it *is* in my field, so if I were to be offered the position, I’d be kind of crazy not to accept… right?” (With the thinking that at least having the name of the place on my resume would, in the future, show that I had experience in my field, even though the position was basically reception work and not what the hands-on work I had anticipated it being.) Obviously it’s a non-issue now, and I’ve managed to pick up two-part time jobs in the interim as I continue to search, but I still have that theoretical question: if I am in a similar position in the future, is my thinking sound that I should accept a job because it’s in my field and I’m only just starting to build my resume, even if the position is not ideal? From reading this blog I’m getting the sense that I should have higher expectations for myself and to not jump at a job just because it’s a job, but even with these two part-time jobs, I will not be saving much at the end of each month and returning home to live with my family is not an option at present.

    1. Anna Held*

      It really depends on your individual situation. Of course we should all hold out for the best, but we also all need to eat. If you can afford to hold out, do. If not, and you’re not setting up shop in a red flag factory, then do it if no better options present themselves. The key is to do a great job so you can get great recommendations and learn new skills, learn how your industry works, network, etc. so that your next step is that position you want.

    2. Chaordic One*

      You don’t want to take just any job for the sake of having one, and if there are any red flags that demonstrate that it is a toxic workplace you certainly don’t want it. OTOH, if you’ve been looking for a while, a job that might not be ideal but that would allow to get some experience in your field and to build your resume is worth considering. If you accept such a job, learn as much as you can and ask your coworkers about their jobs, too. Learn what they do.

      Then keep an eye on the job market and if you see openings for your dream job (or for jobs that are step above what you’re doing now) apply. You will learn a lot as you go on interviews. If your dream job comes along, great. If a pretty good job comes long, well O.K. And if the job isn’t that great, you can always say “no.”

    3. Anna Kay*

      Thanks, both! This is good, nuanced perspective. I’ve only been looking for a few months (I graduated in May), and luckily I have the other two jobs plus some independent contract work on the side, so I’m not desperate as of yet. But, as I’m sure you can imagine/have perhaps experienced before, when you are fresh out of college and unemployed, your brain can start playing torturous games with you!

  198. Gibberish*

    I know I’m probably too late to the comment party, but I just want to get something off my chest about something that’s been happening in my job search.

    I’ve clawed my way up in a very competitive non-profit field in a very competitive city, then had a short stint of unemployment after my last organization downsized. I’ve been doing a lot of interviewing and one of two or three things keeps happening.

    1. They tell me they loved me, but they didn’t hire me because they think I’m overqualified and won’t last long (despite the fact that I’m fairly open about looking for a lower-stress/longer-term position than my previous work, all of which have lasted longer than 3 years). So, they hire someone else and then ASK ME TO DO FREE CONSULTING WORK FOR THEM. As in, train their new employee, join a working group, or even facilitate some upcoming workshops. I very kindly explain (as a lot of consultants do) that I work to pay my bills and here’s my super-reasonable going rate…only to have every single one turn me down, even though they all exclaim their everlasting regret. This, or something similar, has now happened three times (and at all three places, I interviewed at least twice).

    2. After they interview me, they tell me the job doesn’t exist any more. Like, the decent job with benefits has now been downgraded to a crap temporary job with no benefits but the exact same responsibilities. And they’re really, really sorry, but will I please take that job? Or just sorry we wasted months of your time and potentially up to three interviews, but we’re now only hiring for basically minimum wage. And yes, it still requires 10 years of experience. This has happened enough times that it’s starting to feel like an awful new recruiting tactic.

    These things, combined with the fact that I’ve now had at least 5 orgs ask me to work for free (which is against labor laws, and some of them knew that, but didn’t care) is making me incredibly frustrated. Am I doing something wrong? Am I somehow giving the impression I’m independently wealthy and don’t need to work for money? I am barely paying my bills, drive a 16 year old car, and am certainly not wearing flashy jewelry to interviews.

    I know some of this is the industry, and I’ve been looking at the for-profit world, but I have no real contacts there. Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, commiseration?

    1. Anna Kay*

      Wowwww. I have almost no hard experience here, but I can certainly offer some sympathy–that sounds awful!! And insulting, to say the least.

      From reading this blog, I guess I’d say that in the first scenario, it’s the company’s call (the one who’s interviewing you) to decide whether or not you’d be overqualified for their position. Your reasoning for wanting to downgrade in positions makes enough sense to me (a 22 year old with no hiring experience, haha), but from what I see on this blog, perhaps they’re concerned that you’re being overly optimistic about how happy you’d be in the role?

      In the second scenario, it sounds like they’re offering you a position (in a terrible bait-and-switch, yes, but still a position); in any other reasonable situation where they *didn’t* bait-and-switch you, that would mean we’ve now entered negotiation stages, right? Although it seems unlikely that you’d truly be able to vie for compensation that would meet your needs, given just how *much* they downgrade the position, it would at least give you some insight into just what the hell is going on. Perhaps by saying something to the tune of, “I have to admit, I’m a bit surprised by the sudden change in compensation package from what was advertised on your listing and what you are offering me now, especially considering my experience and the fact that you’re looking for that level of experience. Can you tell me why such a sudden, drastic change was made?” Depending on how candid they want to be, you could figure out whether it’s an issue with that particular employer, a current industry trend, or perhaps even how your experience is coming off on your resume.

      I’m not sure what industry you work for, but one employer advertising a job with a certain pay scale–I’m assuming a salaried position of some kind–suddenly being chopped down to a pittance with no benefits seems outrageous to me, and a red flag about that employer. The fact that it keeps happening consistently is just… bizarre.

  199. Puckter Grumble*

    Alison, I want to say thank you for your website. I have always found it difficult giving negative feedback to staff, which is unfortunately a job requirement as someone who works in HR. If ever I had to challenge an employee on crappy behaviour – or sometimes terminate a person’s employment – I would give a long waffle with vague hints of things not going right and try to cushion any criticism with meaningless compliments. From your website I realised this was actually doing my coworkers a great disservice.

    I recently had to speak with a long term employee because several new hires made legitimate complaints about her. Remembering your advice that it’s kindness to give direct, unfiltered feedback I addressed all the problems straight up. (I also practiced what I was going to say beforehand, using some of the phrases I found here). I kept my tone respectful and neutral. In the end she thanked me for letting her know about these issues; nobody else had given her this feedback. Her interactions with new staff have now improved dramatically. I’m proud of myself for overcoming my fear of difficult conversations, largely thanks to you.

    So yeah, thanks!

    1. Jill*

      My experience is that most people appreciate honest feedback and really want to know if they are doing things wrong or doing things that are really bothering other people.

  200. Jan*

    I’m moving from Boston to a small southern town. While I realize the cost of living there is lower, part of me can’t imagine taking a 30-50% pay cut. Salary wizards aside, it’s been difficult to find what an appropriate salary should be for my kind of work (admin). If a salary range says $26-35K, do I hold firm that I would not accept less than the $35K? I know often times companies don’t want to bring people on at the top end of the range and don’t want to shoot myself in the foot. Wondering if anyone has any experience with this situation. Thanks!

    1. Anna Held*

      I’d contact the local chamber of commerce and talk to locals to get a good feel on the true cost of living. In small towns, there’s little choice so food can be more expensive, for example. Utilities may not be included, or some other local quirk. And you WILL be driving everywhere! Find out what local salary ranges are and what you can really live on.

      I mean, I’d love to tell you to hold firm, but small southern towns don’t have lots of job opportunities. You can easily price yourself out of the market.

  201. Jessen*

    So I could use advice on explaining allergies/sensitivities and the potential need for accommodations at work. I’ve found it’s often very hard for people to understand that allergies like that are a thing that could require accommodations. So for example, often the first question I get when I talk about bad allergies is “do you have an epipen?” And I have to explain that no I don’t, because that’s not the kind of reaction I have. It’s more similar to hay fever, only in my case it’s very bad and it does not respond well to medication.

    I think the trouble I’m having is most people don’t have a concept of allergies between “anaphylactic shock” and “sniffles you deal with by taking claratin.” Mine aren’t immediately dangerous, but they can make me pretty miserable and they can cause a lot of problems if left unchecked.

    1. Jessen*

      I’m also having issues because some coworkers have “hypoallergenic” scents (essential oils), or sometimes “hypoallergenic” treatments are used around the workplace. So people get very confused when I say I’m reacting badly because what they’re using is supposedly hypoallergenic.

      1. Rainy, not-PI*

        I have a hallmate who uses an essential oil humidifier thing in his office. I stopped in one day, said “I like this eucalyptus scent! Can I ask a favour? Could you not use lavender or any aromatic wood oils like cedar, or anything with frankincense? I am super allergic.” He was happy to agree and has kept to it.

        I’m notorious in my office because my laundry list of allergies is so incredibly long, but it’s become very much not a thing, especially since one particular person left the office. I think if you’re super matter of fact about it–and also well informed about the different ways that allergies can manifest, and how they are valid allergic reactions, and ready to bore everyone on the topic if they ask–it stops being a thing pretty quickly if your coworkers are even remotely considerate.

    2. Katie the Fed*

      I would ay something like “I can treat my condition if it flares up, but I’d strongly prefer not to have a medical crisis in the first place when there are preventable measures possible.”

      1. Jessen*

        I think the confusion is more it’s not really the kind of thing that has sudden “flares”, but the kind of thing that will get incrementally worse and worse the more exposure to irritants I get. Many people are confused by the fact that I have nothing to treat flares, because that’s not really how the form I have works.

  202. Sheworkshardforthemoney*

    I’ve been reading AAM for a while, I heard about it through a friend who sent me the link (the over-worked, under-appreciated intern was refused permission to attend her graduation). Anyway, we have one co-worker who never says thank you or acknowledges any help or assistance that she gets from fellow workers. If someone is busy, we help out, take an extra shift at the last minute and a few words of appreciation are always offered. Except for this one person. It’s being noted and has reached the point where people are not helping her or turning down her requests to trade shifts. (We can do that, it’s one reason I like this job. If you can find someone to cover your hours, then management has no problem with time off). She mentioned to another co-worker it’s become hard to switch shifts or that people aren’t as helpful to her as to others. But when someone gives her a hand when she’s swamped and her response is…nothing then why help? Is there a way to say you have to say “thanks” now and then or acknowledge the help we gave you?

    1. Rainy, not-PI*

      I think you just have to be straight with her. If she brings it up with you, overcome the awkward and say “Coworker, trading or taking shifts and helping out is a *favour*, and when you do not thank people or reciprocate their assistance and kindness in any way, people are not going to be interested in helping you in the future.”

      1. Jill*

        I agree. Tell her straight out that people don’t want to help her because she never shows any appreciation when they do.

  203. JanMA*

    Good luck. I once worked with a colleague who wore Poison (or some such godawful) perfume. By 3PM every day I had a splitting headache. After asking her kindly several times if she could stop wearing it (or at least less) with no change I finally went to our Occupational Health nurse. I was told “But she has the *right* to wear perfume!!” (Really? Where is that in the Constitution – right to bear arms and wear perfume?). Apparently her right to wear perfume trumped my right to feel well. They tried moving her desk, which helped, but she’d always find a way to squirrel her way back to the desk near me that she liked better. It only ended when she left the company. Not sure what I would have done if she hadn’t. I feel like I almost would have been forced to resign.

  204. European*

    I had the first telephone interview several days ago. It was short and it was made clear to me that many candidates are being interviewed now and that my salary expectations were too high. When I asked how much too high, the person (owner) told me he’s not sure, but he will talk to his partners and if they are much too high I will get rejected. They are looking for a person experienced in a very specific field. I have an experience in a more general field without being specialised in their field, but he told me as a person without very direct experience in their field I would not get what I asked for. I’m not prepared to go down more than 4%.

    The thing is, before the interview I also got from them an invitation to online tests. It would take me several hours to take the tests.

    I currently have very little time and can only devote weekends to applying for jobs. That’s why I’m asking myself whether it makes sense for me to devote my precious time to the tests if I know that they will probably reject me anyway or offer less many than I could accept.

  205. Anxa*

    I think I may have sabotaged my chances to get a job I feel very well-qualified for, and while it’s mostly because I’m pretty much trash sometimes, I also think I have no perspective on whether to trust if I’m well-qualified. Basically, I either submitted my application at the literal last minute (in fact, part of the application didn’t process until 12am) or missed the window because I was so incredibly stressed out about knowing my cover letter was too weak and my resume wasn’t as tight as it could be, and I felt like I had to super sell myself to this job, but I was also exhausted.

    I kind of wish I had just taken a resume, tailored it more to the job, and proofread the crap out of it. And just written any old cover letter and proofread it. Instead I spent days wondering which points should make the cut and how to best structure it. And stressing over the fact that I can never quite get as ‘personable’ as some of the CLs I see here and other places, because I AM a little stiff sometimes and that’s my true, authentic personality.

    So, this job. My SO thinks I’m crazy for doubting my chances of getting an interview. At moments, even I thought I was a shoe-in. But after 8 years of mostly radio silence from ‘perfect fit’ jobs, I just don’t know anymore. My resume and cover letters aren’t always great. My resumes have gotten better lately, but my cover letters have gotten worse, I think.

    This job was working as a laboratory support technician, basically a lab TA, but as an employee and not a student. The pay was incredible for the position; I’d literally do the job for half of the low-end of the range posted. I think that part intimidated a bit, and I felt the need to prove I was worth that much money and was that much more special than the job duties alone would suggest.

    So, I have laboratory skills. My actual experience is limited, but I have a general biology degree and finished a biotech training program. I interned in a gene editing lab and my supervisors seemed to really like me and my work.

    I tutor for the classes I’d be setting labs up. A good portion of my job is to trouble shoot labs from outside the lab. I take a lot of pride in being able to find the likely sources of error or misunderstanding within a few seconds of scanning a worksheet or lab report. I am also really good at coming up with alternative methods of teaching the same concepts, at least according to my students. I have literally had them beg me to be their instructor/lab TA in multiple courses. I feel really confident in my instructional abilities.

    I’m super organized when it comes to lab spaces and work flows. To the point where I’m self-conscious about it because I’m usually the only one that puts any effort into it. But I think it’s really important to health and safety. Which was something the job ad emphasized. Oh, and I was licensed health inspector.

    So I have a pretty strong background in laboratory skills, teaching, and health and safety. And I already work there. And yet, I felt like I was a turd in desperate need of polishing and I had to come up with a miraculously impressive cover letter to sell myself. Of course, if I had the appropriate communication skills and time management skills I should be able to actually write a good cover letter quickly, but so much of the paralysis stems from having no confidence for my experience to speak for itself without being able to spin it well.

    I don’t know if this post had a point, but just….aggh.

    (Although, I may have an offer for a much less attractive job come through before they would interview me if they did, so maybe it’s moot. I’m not in the position to turn down full-time, good paying work without feeling super irresponsible about it, but I’m so tempted to hold off for this job. But maybe I’m not even a contender due to my last minute application).

  206. Working and anti-anxiety meds*

    Regular commenter going anon because of this question. It’s very late in the weekend so I know this may not be seen.

    Lately, I’m having to take my anti-anxiety medication just to function at work on some days. It helps me to not feel overwhelmed with the schedule (state-run educational setting) and with the clients I work with.

    Does anyone else struggle with this? I know the meds are there to help me, but I’m beginning to wonder if that’s a sign that I should change jobs, perhaps one that doesn’t involve working with clients. I’ve only been at this job a few months. Plus, the medication makes me a little fuzzy, even when I take a half dose.

    1. Anna Kay*

      Hi there!

      I also take medication for anxiety. Firstly–I’m sorry that you are having such a rough time! Living with anxiety is really difficult, and the fact that you are powering through and trying to work as best you can is commendable.

      Secondly, is your anxiety medication a daily preventative prescription (e.g., an SSRI that helps balance moods), or an as-you-need it prescription (e.g., Xanax for panic attacks)? If it’s the former, it seems like your medication is doing exactly what it needs to, which is helping you maintain daily functioning. If it’s the latter, that may be more cause for concern. I’m not a doctor, but if you have to take a non-preventative/maintenance medication every day, that seems like it might be a situational problem, not just a neurological one.

      Your questions about your happiness in your job are valid ones, but really only you can answer them. What do you like about your job? What are situations that you find particularly stressful? If you find a pattern in those situations (e.g., every time you have to deal with a client you become horribly anxious), that may be a sign that this job isn’t for you, and you should seek a role that requires more individual work, away from clients.

      Do you see a therapist? Your therapist may be able to help you figure out the source of your anxiety. Even if you don’t see a therapist, I’m guessing you see some kind of psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist who prescribes you your medication. You may want to talk to them about the side effects you’re experiencing from your medication. It could be that the medication itself isn’t right for you, or the dosage, and they can help you adjust accordingly. I’m not sure how much experience you have with different kinds of psychotropic medications, but (speaking from experience and general common knowledge of these medications) it is very, very common for people to have to go through a pretty long trial and error process before they find the medication that works for them.

      1. Working and anti-anxiety meds*

        Thank you so much for your kind words. I’ve been dealing with depression / anxiety for most of my life, but only started taking any sort of meds for it in 2000 when I finally saw a psychiatrist after an epic meltdown that led to me losing a job (the job was toxic anyway).

        Secondly, is your anxiety medication a daily preventative prescription (e.g., an SSRI that helps balance moods), or an as-you-need it prescription (e.g., Xanax for panic attacks)…If it’s the latter, that may be more cause for concern. I’m not a doctor, but if you have to take a non-preventative/maintenance medication every day, that seems like it might be a situational problem, not just a neurological one./i>

        I have both. I have no doubt the problem is at least partly situational but there are definitely (lifelong) neurological components too.

        You suggested looking for patterns in the situations that causes me stress – yes, that is something I’ve been thinking about. I do have a therapist, but unfortunately, I’m not seeing her again until the end of September just about of how things timed out (our appointments are monthly–she had a mid-Sept. opening but stupid me picked the later one *facepalm*).

        As for seeking a new role, I am definitely taking steps on that front. I have no doubt that the program I work for is beneficial to the clients–many clearly get a lot out of it. However, I have to look out for myself too. I’m just scared that I’ll never find the right “fit”. I know no job is perfect, but because of my issues, fit is especially important to me.

        1. Anna Kay*

          Oof, that is rough! That timing sounds particularly bad. If your therapist is the one who prescribes you your medication, I’d encourage you to call her ASAP and tell her about the issues you are facing. She might be able to help alleviate your situation a little bit, even if it’s just a small adjustment to medication. (I’m sure you’ve considered this or something similar seeing as you have a long history with psychotropics, but I wanted to voice it anyway, to validate any niggling feelings you might have about getting in touch!)

          I’m glad you are recognizing your boundaries between clients’ needs and your own. I can understand how fit would be a top priority in your situation, and a lot of people in our situation are like that! Best of luck to you.

  207. DDES*

    hi,

    i am starting a new job soon, and i want to ask about employee counselling. can they provide advice on how to move home?

  208. DDES*

    Also, how does one nominate life assurance? i have no kids (nor want any), and i wish to list my parents. is this permissable?

    1. Jill*

      Yes, you can designate anyone you want as a beneficiary. They should provide you the form with the enrollment materials.

  209. Aliquis*

    My employer (a school) had a sudden job opening come up in the last week. Since school starts soon, they’ll obviously want to fill it quickly if possible, and in the schoolwide email letting us know the position was now vacant, they also asked us to send “recommendations” for anyone we knew who was a possible candidate.

    If I referred a friend-of-a-friend to this position (someone I have never met), basically just mentioning it to a friend who said they knew someone who might be interested, then passing along the job listing by email, there’s no point to my also sending that person’s name as a “recommendation”, right? Since I don’t know enough about them to really recommend them, I don’t know that it would be a particularly helpful email for our administration to receive. But if it would in some way help the friend-of-a-friend out and be expected by our admin (like, if the friend-of-a-friend’s cover letter mentions that I’m how they heard about the job, will our admin find it odd that I didn’t also contact them?), I don’t want to not send an email. But the specific term “recommendation” seems to me like a stronger word than “referral” and I also don’t want to burn credibility by recommending someone I don’t really know. And I’ve never even ‘referred’ someone for a job like this before, so I really don’t know what the default expectations are.

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