open thread – March 15-16, 2019

by Alison Green on March 15, 2019

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

You may also like:
{ 1,911 comments }

{ 1,911 comments… read them below }

  1. Linda Evangelista*

    Has anyone negotiated a part of their job *out* of their job description? I really like my job, but there’s one piece of it I absolutely can’t stand (my last job was ALL this one thing, and I took this job because it would be LESS of this thing, but lately its becoming more and more of this thing). I’m wondering if there’s a tactful way to say, hey, I really don’t like this thing, it’s super stressful for me, can I do this other thing instead?

    1. Ali G*

      Have you tried addressing it with your boss? You could say something like “I specifically took this position to do less of X. While I am happy to support X, I am worried about the amount of time I am spending on it. I would prefer to work more on Y – is there a way we can make that happen?”

      1. Linda Evangelista*

        I know that’s something I really should do, but it’s a little hard. Everyone on my team helps with X thing as needed, though there are two people who do it primarily. However, because of my experience, I end up getting pulled in more. Plus, I think part of my hiring was because of this experience. :/ So I just happily help and muscle through.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          I was going to say – I think they may have hired you precisely because you had that experience. If so, I think you can still broach the topic with your boss with the wording above, but be prepared for them to tell you “no.” Then you’ll have to decide just how much you hate doing this thing in relation to everything else you do there and whether or not you’ll be okay with the possibility of that task becoming a more frequent component of your new role.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            My only question is, does a job with more X thing typically pay more? If so, you should at least negotiate HARD for that raise.

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I think rather than focusing on why you don’t like doing it, you need to make a business case for why someone else should do it. For example, you shouldn’t be adding the teapot handles after you take them off the production line because then Fergus has to paint around them, and it’s very quick and easy, so Fergus should add the handle after he’s done. If there is another person whose expertise or process is more suited towards the part you don’t like, you can propose that they do it, but you might want to informally approach that person and feel them out about it before taking it to management.

      1. Linda Evangelista*

        Unfortunately everyone on my team does it, so there wouldn’t be anyone to transfer the duty to. Sorry, I wish I could provide more context without giving away too much!

        1. fposte*

          Details might change this, but I think that it’s tough to ask to be the only person at your level that never does x. But it might be possible to ask to fall farther down on the priority list for x if you can make a case for your time being more profitably spent on y. (That’s especially true if people don’t particularly mind x–if x is a universally hated task, it’s harder to justify you getting cut more of a break on it.)

          1. Linda Evangelista*

            Thanks! This sounds great. Yeah, I think only one other team member feels the way I do. Everyone else seems on board.

            1. RPCV*

              Is there anything your other coworkers don’t like doing but you’re fine with? You could try a trade with them. “Hey, since you don’t mind doing X, and I don’t mind doing Y, how ’bout I start sending more of X to you and you can send me more of Y?”

                1. Beth*

                  I managed the trade. I don’t mind reviewing TPS Reports (which everyone seems to find mind-numbingly dull) and in exchange don’t have to negotiate the TPS Reports (which I find nerve-wracking). It helps that I’m very fast at my part of the job and can really reduce their “boring” workload. Keep in mind they might hate something you love. I honestly love reviewing and still can’t believe they’ll give me all of it.

        2. E*

          Could you offer to train some of the other folks so that they have closer to your level of experience with this?

    3. Celeste*

      I’ve had some success with discussing how much I like a different part of the job, and asking if I could take on more of that and let someone else (who prefers it) take a greater share of the load I dislike. It won’t work for all situations, but I think it’s important to show that you aren’t trying to get out of work per se, but would like a different distribution of it.

    4. AnonEMoose*

      I have. But I think it’s really dependent on your circumstances, your relationship with your boss, etc. In my case, it was work that had been added to my workload because it had to go somewhere. And I HATED it. They hadn’t bothered to figure out the process before moving forward, and so it was a bit of “we don’t know what we want, but we’ll know it when we see it.” Which is a pet peeve of mine.

      My direct boss was well aware that I wasn’t happy about any of this. But I did the best I could with it. Some time later, an opportunity came up, because there was other work they wanted to give me.

      So I went to my boss and said, in essence, “I’m happy to take this on; however, if this comes on to my plate, something needs to come off. I think the thing that comes off should be (process I hate), because it doesn’t really fit with the rest of what I’m doing and it’s time-consuming.” Boss agreed.

      In my case, there was an opportunity and a solid reason (other work being added), and my relationship with my boss is pretty open. Plus there was somewhere else that work could go. Those things helped.

    5. Overeducated*

      I think it depends on how much that piece is a core part of the work and how important it is compared to other parts of the work. My job has also taken a direction like that, but the piece I don’t like is really a fundamental obligation that has to be fulfilled that wasn’t being done properly, and the stuff I thought I was hired for is…nice extra, in a legal sense. There is no point in my asking for that to change, I am just trying to take advantage of the professional development opportunities offered and see what happens in the future.

    6. Ann O'Nemity*

      I’ve seen this happen in a few situations:

      – When there’s a good business case for it. For example, it doesn’t make sense for a highly paid technical person to spend a lot of time on administrative paperwork that could be done by someone at half the salary.

      – When someone is amazing at part or most of their job, and awful at one part. The manager may decide that it’s worth it to reconfigure the job description to play to the person’s strengths.

      – When someone is ready to quit over it. Similar to the one above, the manager has to be willing (and able) to change the job description to accommodate an awesome employee.

    7. Mbarr*

      The closest I’ve come to this is telling my manager that it’s stressing me out and I’m unhappy about it… But there were extenuating circumstances:
      – Project 1: I was being pulled in when I wasn’t a subject matter expert and my participation was not adding value. I was just being a middle man between two teams. Thankfully my manager got me off of the project and made the two teams duke it out together.
      – Project 2: I inherited the project from another team, but I’m again in a situation of, “I don’t know how I’m adding value/I’m leading someone’s team on their behalf.” I approached my manager and laid out the situation, and while I’m still stuck leading the project, my manager is actively working to get agreement on a transition plan for me.

      So it’s worth discussing with your manager why you’re unhappy with the work, and see if there’s a way to get less of it.

    8. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Since everyone does it but you are the primary “fill in”, I think that you just need to focus on “Can we spread this around more evenly? I prefer not to do this and just because I have the most experience doesn’t mean I should necessarily be the next in line.” You can come up with a system so that you are still doing it but not the next in line, it should be some kind of “fair” scheduling for backup. Just like I have a lot of experience with phones, that doesn’t mean that I’m the one tossed on right away if the main person isn’t here.

      I wouldn’t ask to be cut out completely because in my experience that goes over very badly.

    9. Anono-me*

      Do any of your co-workers seem to like this task better and dislike something else that you don’t mind or enjoy? You may be able to trade some or even most of the hours with your coworker. I would suggest seeing if your co-worker would be interested, and then if so, approaching your supervisor.

      A co-worker and I used tea cozies in a former job. We had a blue one and a green one. Our boss had us alternate between the two, (to be fair). One day, a co-worker and I were comiserating about the unpleasant tea cozy. Eventually we figured out that I was talking about the blue one and my coworker was talking about the green one. We were able to switch to using the one we like to exclusively.

      Good luck

    10. Mouse Princess*

      I did! But I wouldn’t recommend the way I did it (having a very stressful meeting with my manager and getting teary-eyed). But once we got past that, I figured out how much time I was spending on X and how I could replace it with Y and delegate X into a new position that was already in the works beforehand.

    11. Drax*

      I did this actually. In a previous job I had I was good at about 90% but I had one task that I was awful at. I really really struggled with it and then the stress would snowball because I had to do it, but I couldn’t figure it out and then I would get in my own way etc etc

      I was lucky I had a really good relationship with my boss, so I went to her and just told her “Hey, I know this is typically part of the position but I am really really struggling with it and it’s causing a lot of stress. Is there any way to wiggle it around that someone else takes over this task and I take on something else? And if not, am I able to get more in depth training on it?” and she worked with me to figure it out. We ended up shuffling it back to the Operations Manager who had previously done it and set up the system so no one else understood it and I took over the raw inventory in exchange.

    12. ragazza*

      I just did this. I repeatedly pointed out that I was hired to do X and Y was taking more and more of my time, which was taking away from my availability to do X, which we really, really needed. The response for a long time was “well, there’s no one else to do Y.” I pointed out that the company easily had the resources to hire someone else to do Y. I just kept pointing out it made no sense for me to do Y when I had an advanced degree in X.

    13. Anon Anon Anon*

      In my experience, you can ask for anything if you have evidence that it would be valuable to the business. So I would frame it in terms of what you’re good at, and your productivity. “X is a weak spot for me, whereas I am very good at Y. I am working to improve at X, but if I am assigned more of Y instead, I will get more done faster. I also find Y more interesting and more compatible with the direction that I want to go in. What do you think?” You’ll have a stronger case if you’re the only one who dislikes X. If everyone dislikes X and likes Y better, you’ll have to go farther to support what you’re asking for.

  2. Thirsty?*

    I am administrative/office support in my company to a sales team. One of my tasks is assisting with client visits, including keeping the conference room fridge stocked with bottled waters and sodas. I don’t check the fridge on a daily basis; just fill it up when I get word that clients are coming in. Lately I’ve noticed drinks disappearing from the fridge when I know clients aren’t around. Yesterday I stocked the fridge around 3PM for clients that are coming in today. When I went in this morning to finish set up, at least four sodas were missing, during those few hours when there were no clients were around, only staff.

    I’m less worried about the bottled waters because we get huge shipments of them directly to the office; the sodas are the sticking point because I have to go out and purchase them myself so it is frustrating to know I’ll have to make a trip out sooner because my coworkers are taking drinks from the client fridge. We always share the leftover food from client meals, but the sodas stay put until the next visit. Is this worth it to send an email out reminding my coworkers that those drinks are for client visits only or should I just suck up my annoyance?

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Is that the official rule? Like, sales manager says that we’re buying these beverages just for client visits? If so, let the person in charge of the rule know that “hey, the beverages are disappearing faster than they should, just making sure the rule hasn’t changed?”

      1. intelligent_zombie*

        I agree with Red Reader. Confirm that the sodas are really only for client meetings and then ask for their assistance in enforcing that rule, unless you think you have the standing to do so on your own.

    3. londonedit*

      I think you should send an email now and nip it in the bud before it becomes A Thing that there are free drinks available in the conference room. It’s possible that whoever’s helping themselves honestly doesn’t realise they’re meant to be for clients, and it’s possible someone just wants to help themselves anyway, but in any case it’s probably wise to remind people that they’re not for general consumption.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        I have seen this go nuts and I’ve been part of the problem. I had no self control knowing there was free soda that the company didn’t mind (?) us taking. It quickly ended up that we all took one per day and then the company started minding …

    4. Mockingjay*

      Not only would I send a reminder email, I would label the sodas within the fridge: For clients only. Add a meeting date if appropriate. “Reserved for Client meeting on 3 April – do not touch.”

    7. Marion Ravenwood*

      Can you lock the fridge and/or conference room so no-one can access it without a key? Or make stocking the fridge your last job before you leave, when there are fewer people around? Is it worth starting an office snacks and drinks kitty that can be used to buy sodas for the team rather than using the clients’ supply maybe?

      Also, are you claiming the costs back for the sodas from petty cash or similar? If so, I would strongly consider flagging it to your supervisor or whoever is in charge of that petty cash tin, as eventually (if they haven’t already) they’ll notice the purchases on sodas aren’t matching up with the number of clients coming in and out. If not, then that’s something you need to be doing, and you can potentially bring this up when you do. Red Reader’s script is good for both these scenarios, I think.

    8. this ain't a scene*

      Do they know it’s a client-only fridge? Even if so, an e-mail sending out might be good, or a sign on the door saying “drinks for clients, employees please use [location of employee fridge]”.

      1. Database Developer Dude*

        While that’s not a bad thing, the OP needs to know their audience. A sign might provoke those who know better, but choose to do bad anyway. They’ll need to know in advance in order to deal with that.

    9. RandomU...*

      It’s totally not the point of your question. But I thought I’d throw it out anyway. I know we get our pop delivered from the same place that we get our office supplies delivered from… it’s probably office depot or office max.

      While addressing the missing pop, you may also want to explore this option as well (or even Amazon delivery if someone has a prime account if you don’t purchase often enough for a standing order).

    11. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      First ask your supervisor is on board. Don’t take it into your own hands without addressing with someone else what’s going on and if it’s okay to send out the email.

      I only say this because it may look like you’re overstepping, even though you’re well within your rights to be upset by it adding to your duties! Some places wouldn’t look kindly on an assistant popping off an email chastising over four missing sodas.

      You’re being paid to go out and get them and they’re being paid for by the company, right? I’m sorry it’s an unfavorable task of yours, those stink but it’s your task so I’m a little worried that you’re going to come across poorly without some backing from your management!

      1. Parenthetically*

        “popping off an email chastising over four missing sodas.”

        Eh, I really don’t think the right tone is “chastising.” I think Thirsty can send out a quick: “Hey all, just wanted to clarify in case anyone wasn’t certain — the waters and sodas in the conference room are for clients only! Please leave them for the next round of client visits. Thanks, Thirsty

    12. I See Real People*

      I am in the same position at my office, a large medical practice. We have a refreshment service that brings in bottled water, sodas, coffee, sweeteners/creamers, etc. The coffee is free to everyone who works here, and we have a water filtration machine to provide hot and cold water as well. However, I keep the bottled water/sodas reserved under a locked cabinet to keep stock for the boardroom/administration office small refrigerator. Before we installed building cameras, I noted that a lot of the fridge contents would disappear over the weekend. The first weekend we had a camera, it was revealed that a contracted employee who worked on Saturdays was taking a sixer every Saturday. One wouldn’t be a big deal, but she was written up formally for that, and we haven’t had a problem since.

    13. Beehoppy*

      This reminds me of my old job. When I got the tour on my first day I was shown the refrigerator and told to help myself to beverages. Later it was my turn to give the tour and I said the same. Most of my colleagues took drinks from the fridge and I was in charge of restocking with corporate cc (they were also for clients). One day, 6 months later, in an all hands meeting, the founder of the company said she had recently been to a conference where companies discussed “work perks” and she heard someone else mention that they provided free drinks to staff. She said, “Maybe we should consider that instead of having them for clients only.” Silence fell across the room, everyone looked at everyone else. Finally, some brave soul piped up to say: “Uhh.. we already have that policy.” Luckily she laughed and confessed that she had felt guilty because from time to time she would “steal” one from the fridge!

    14. Yvette*

      Can you keep the soda, water etc. in a locked storeroom? Then stock just before the meeting and empty out afterwards? Maybe provide ice and cups during the meeting? (Personally I hate drinking out of a can.)

      Also, the fact that it has started lately might point to newer employees who are not aware of the restrictions. I think a reminder in the form of an email or posted sign reminding everyone might not be out of line in this situation. As others have pointed out, just make sure this is still the policy.

    15. Adminx2*

      Best option for all: Research soda/water vendors and pricing and ask manager to start stocking fridge for the entire office AND clients. Manager says yes, you no longer have to get delivered, everyone gets free drinks!

      Other option: Start using Amazon to do the delivering for you, but keep drinks in closed boxes labeled “Clients Only”

      Do not email- the people who don’t do it will feel chastised and the ones who do won’t care.

    16. Parenthetically*

      1. Email to manager: “FYI, it seems like some folks have started grabbing the client-visit water and soda from the conference room fridge for themselves, and it’s happening more often lately, so I’m planning to send out an email just reminding them to reserve those for client meetings, unless the policy has changed around that!”
      2. Sign to tape on the front of the fridge: “Inventoried 3/15; for client meeting 3/19”
      3. Email to everyone: “Hey guys, just a quick reminder, I realize not everyone may know this, but the drinks in the conference room are only for client visits. Thanks!”
      4. Look into having your sodas delivered; any office supply company should have soda, juice, tea, etc. as well as water.

      Don’t assume ill will (“They are knowingly making more work for me by taking soda”); assume ignorance (“They literally do not know they shouldn’t take these things, or don’t realize it’s causing a problem and are just thinking about how they want a Diet Coke”). IF they’re jerks and the missing sodas continue, you can escalate to locking the door or whatever. But this way, your manager is in the loop, the ignorant have been informed, and some accountability has been put in place.

    17. Kathenus*

      At my organization the Development fridge has these in the drawers with big labels on the drawers saying that these beverages are for tours only, so it’s at least a regular reminder to all that they shouldn’t take them. Won’t help if it’s intentional and they know that they shouldn’t, but might if it’s confusion.

    18. Madame Secretary*

      I’d bet that the company that delivers the water will also deliver the sodas too. You shouldn’t have to go get it.

    19. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      If it’s a full-sized fridge, could you put them in a opaque storage tub, inside the fridge? Labeled “for client meetings only”?

      We had a problem at my last work with people leaving food for meetings or events in the multipurpose room with a kitchen, and then other people finding them and helping themselves so they weren’t there for the event. But to be fair, the teens we had working on evenings and weekends had no clue that we even *had* a Board of Directors, so of course they would not realize that the mini-muffins and granola bars were for the BoD breakfast meeting in the next few days. It was just so out of the scope of their job to know that.

    20. Trixie*

      In addition to just restocking for client visits, I would consider stocking bottled water only. We used to have soda as well and once we went to bottled water only, so much easier to keep stocked.

  3. Claptic*

    I reached out and got excellent advice from a LinkedIn contact on how to enter her field of work months ago. After much research and soul-searching, I decided against pursuing that field. Should I email the contact and let her know? If I end up taking a job outside her field and it appears on LinkedIn she might wonder. Also, her advice was very generous and thoughtful and I feel I may owe her an explanation why I decided not to move forward. If someone you gave advice decided not to pursue your field, would you like to know?

    1. IL JimP*

      I don’t know if you need to but I probably would. I would just keep it short and thank her for all the help she provided and that it allowed to make a really good decision about your future.

    2. JokeyJules*

      I don’t think you need to! I don’t think she will wonder or notice, and if she does and asks you about it, you can just tell her how much you appreciated her advice and that you realized it wasn’t going to be the best fit for you.

    3. this ain't a scene*

      How close are you with the contact? If you’re at actual-friend-level, mentioning the next time you see her that you decided to go in a different direction because another thing sounded better. If you’re at networking-only level, I think it’s totally fine to just let it lie. There are tons of reasons why you might take another job.

    4. kittymommy*

      I think maybe it depends on the level of advice she gave: was this a one time only advice or on-going? If it’s the former I could see just leaving it alone, but if it was more than that I would shoot her a message thanking her for all of her help/advice but ultimately you decided the field wasn’t quite right for you.

    5. ANon.*

      Given that she took the time to give you such helpful and thorough advice, I think it would be a kindness to let her know. Just a brief note along the lines of: “Just wanted to give you a quick update. After more research, I’ve decided to pursue a different field. I truly appreciate your thoughtful advice and hope our paths cross in the future!”

      1. WatchOutForThatTree*

        I’d be a little more personal. Since the contact made the effort to provide real advice, it would be nice to respond in kind. Without getting into personal details (if those factored in), it would be considerate to let her know some of the reasons you decided against pursuing that field. She might appreciate your effort and openness as much as you appreciate hers.

    6. Mel Reams*

      I don’t think you necessarily owe her anything, but it would be a nice gesture to let her know why you decided not to pursue her field. I would personally *love* to get a message like that because a) if my advice helped somebody avoid a field that wouldn’t be right for them I’d feel pretty great about that (assuming I read your comment correctly and her advice did play a part in that decision), and b) knowing more about what might make that field a bad fit for somebody is super useful information I could share with people who ask my advice in the future.

    7. Gloucesterina*

      I would love to know how my advice was helpful in helping a person clarify their own career interests! I would not be stalking their LinkedIn.

  4. Taro*

    I just listened to Alison’s podcast on tone in interviews and have a couple of related questions about something that occurred in an interview. During an interview last month, the interviewer and I were discussing the inconvenience of a particularly large print design for teapots.

    She asked me what size of design I currently use at my job. I blanked on the answer and stated, “86.”

    The correct answer was actually 286, which is a lot larger than 86. The interviewer immediately and kindly pointed out that my answer sounded incorrect. I admitted that 86 isn’t very large. The conversation shifted and the interview did end on a good note, but because this answer is something I am reasonably expected to get right, I was worried that my mistake showed me in a bad light. I’m curious what I should have said — and in what my tone — when it was clear that I didn’t recall a potentially important detail related to something I frequently use a lot. Any thoughts, anyone?

    Second, when I was writing a TY email after the interview, I internally debated whether I should correct my error in the email or not. I ultimately decided to not mention it at all, so as not to remind her in case she had forgotten. Was this the right decision?

    1. intelligent_zombie*

      If I were the interviewer, I would have thought it odd, but probably not a deal breaker assuming everything else went well. It is a very specific question that probably caught you off guard and the interview should have recognized that.

      For the follow up note, I would have mentioned it in a joking way, “I realized I said we use size 86, I meant 286 and my nerves got the better of me, thanks for understanding” or something else along those lines, but, again, I don’t think it is detrimental that you didn’t say anything.

      At this point, move on with your job search as it is out of your hands. If you hear back and move forward, great. If you don’t, that’s okay too because there will be an opportunity that better fits for you.

    2. fposte*

      That kind of error isn’t optimal, it’s true. Generally your interviewer would consider the interview’s totality, though, rather than just dismissing all of it because of an error, and its impact will depend on the real thing’s importance in the field. I think during the moment it’s okay to say “Wow, I do this every day, I can’t believe I’m blanking–an 86?” but it’s still not as good as the right answer.

      I think it would have been okay, in a followup, to say “Sorry, interview nerves got me! I use a 286 print size every day and for some reason I just blanked on it.” That won’t be the same as saying it as an answer at the time, but it will make it likelier that you know what the standard really is.

    3. ChimericalOne*

      She probably understands that you just blanked on it (I’m guessing you probably had one of those looks on your face!). I would’ve mentioned it in the follow-up, since it’s an innocent thing but also something that *could* have nagged at her later when considering your candidacy. Intelligent_zombie’s phrasing is pretty good for that.

      I’d normally suggest letting it go, but… your interviewer might’ve wanted (and might still want) to know the real answer to have a better sense of your experience. You probably could still follow up with, “Oh, and I wanted to apologize for blanking out when you asked what size design I typically work with! It’s 286, not 86.” And you could follow up by saying something like, “I’d love the opportunity to work with a wider variety of sizes at XYZ Company! Thanks again for considering me.” Or, if that’s not quite right, just “thanks for considering me!” or “Again, I very much enjoyed meeting you!” or something else that’s right for you.

    4. Taro*

      Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I also appreciate the advice about how to handle it in the moment — I’ll keep all of this in mind for the future.

      It’s interesting that you all would have corrected the error. Everything else had gone really well, so I refrained from bringing it up. I’m happy to report that I did end up receiving an offer. However, I know that I wasn’t ranked in the top 3-4 among the batch of offers that went out this year, and I can’t help but wonder if my mistake — and not correcting it — had something to do with not being amongst the top. Anyway, all’s well that ends well, and now I know how to handle these kinds of situations better :).

    5. designbot*

      I probably would’ve said something like, “oh this is embarrassing, but I’ve got the templates for those things so dialed in that I haven’t thought about the size since I set them up!”

  5. Sail away, sail away...*

    How can I explain at interviews that I want to leave my current job of 13 months. I’m an admin but do very basic and limited things and there’s no growth or development for me at this place. I left my last job after just 7 months (hope to see that place in hell) and don’t really think I can say the generic “looking for a new challenge” when I don’t really do anything! I’m already having a hard time as my past experience becomes less relevant and almost ‘stale’ as time goes on. Any thoughts?

    1. Jess*

      “I like where I am but there’s no opportunity for growth and development, and I’m looking for that. I’m especially interested in your company/organization because…”

    2. NeedSomeEspresso*

      I’m dealing with similar issues (current job- 15 months, previous job-12). I really do want to settle down somewhere, but it hasn’t worked out. I’ve been trying lack of advancement, but just got a lot of push back even this morning on that answer. Best of luck.

    3. Karen from Finance*

      I think you’re going to give a bit more context. It might not hurt to just tell the truth, as long as you don’t fall into a full-on rant of your employer.

      I had an interview yesterday after 10 months in my job. I rehearsed an answer about the industry in my current job not being the right fit for me and got a lot of pushback, and I mean they asked a version of this question like 5 times over the course of the interview. Eventually I addressed specific cultural problems that I’m struggling with and they understood.

      So for your case maybe you should go into a bit more context of what you were looking for when you entered these jobs and why they didn’t match your expectations. Saying “I was hoping for a career growth but instead in my current position I find myself under utilized” is a valid explanation, I think.

      1. ChimericalOne*

        Yeah, you have to give a real reason. “Not a good fit” can mean “They had some major problems” or it can mean, “I have problems with perfectly normal employers.” You can start with “not a good fit,” but you need to be prepared to follow up when asked with, “Unfortunately, they had a lot of problems with X” or (in a more positive framing) “I found that I prefer to work in a more engaged/fast-paced/hands-on office” or something else to indicate that they really did have a real problem & that it wasn’t just you!

        1. Karen from Finance*

          My problem is nepotism and all that comes with it. I struggled to find a way to state this without ranting.

          What I said was “there are certain problems that are specific to a company that began as a friend and family business, and then grew abruptly”. And the interviewer was like “Yes, I understand”.

    4. Mbarr*

      I left a job after 13 months too. Make sure you don’t rant about the company, but frame it as wanting more of a challenge and problem-solving.

      When I left that old company, I framed it as wanting to work in a faster paced environment, where I could see my contributions having a more immediate effect. (Multiple people at the old company used to tell me, “You’re getting paid more to do less work!” which wasn’t an attitude I wanted to adopt… Among other problems.)

    5. ChimericalOne*

      I think “looking for a new challenge” is perfectly appropriate when your current work isn’t very challenging! You can also say, “I’m looking for a job that has more opportunities for me to grow and develop as a professional.”

      If your previous job was in the right field and just the wrong workplace, you can also say things like, “I’m really excited for the opportunity to get back into X. I really enjoyed doing it at Company ABC, but the workplace itself, unfortunately, was not a good fit.” (Which you’ll need to follow up on, as they’ll ask why. Keep it short & not terribly detailed or negative; e.g., there wasn’t a lot of organization, they didn’t have a very positive culture, there was a lot of instability, etc. They may ask about why you took your current low-challenge job; I’d suggest something like, “I wanted to take a break and figure out what I really wanted here. I realized that I miss the work I used to do, though, and I’m excited to dive back in.” — or, “I’m excited to pursue something a little different,” if the job’s not quite the same as your old one.)

      Also, if you can attend conferences, workshops, webinars, etc. in your field, you can list those on your resume to make it clear you’re staying current on the subject.

    6. designbot*

      I think you can say something that communicates that you are also surprised to find yourself tapped out after so little time there. Like, “Well frankly I thought I’d be here a bit longer too! But as I approached the year mark I realized that there was no pathway for growth from my current position and I feel like I have a lot more to give.”

  6. Où est la bibliothèque?*

    I’m scheduled for a Skype interview next week, and I’ve never done one before. Any advice? I’m already fretting about the glare on my glasses.

    1. IL JimP*

      I know nothing I can say will lessen your concern about your glasses but it’s not really that big a deal. Just dress like you would for an in person email and make sure where you have your computer setup that the background doesn’t have anything you wouldn’t want the interviewer to see. I would use cabinets or a blank wall behind you and just make sure nobody can interrupt you.

    2. Lurker*

      Hey! In my current role I had several Skype interviews in the hiring process. I would suggest road testing your attire and call in location just like you would in a regular interview! I put on my outfit, found a good place to sit (quiet with an empty wall behind me), and had my husband call me so we could see how I would appear on the screen. You can adjust the lighting and the placement of the phone/computer to make sure the lighting works and that you are comfortable! Hope you have a great interview!

      1. Mel Reams*

        Seconding this excellent advice! If you can do a little troubleshooting practice, even better – it’s extremely common to have trouble muting/unmuting/fixing echoes or feedback and while a reasonable human being won’t hold that against you, it might help you feel more relaxed in the interview if you know you can solve common problems.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Find a place where the space behind your your head will appear neat and orderly to the viewer. My set-up shows a bookcase and a piece of framed art behind my head. I’ve seen a lot of people use a plain wall or a window with the blinds or curtains drawn.

      Test your set-up ahead of time. Move a lamp around to a few different positions to see if it helps with glare and harsh shadows. Lighting suggestions for photo/video can be googled.

      Wear a professional top, but wear pajama pants if it’ll help you feel more comfortable (or, you know, an entire suit if that would help instead). I also keep a glass or coffee cup with water close to hand.

      Good luck! You’ve got this!

      1. Oxford Comma*

        I concur about testing it out ahead of time.

        About the pajama pants…if you have to get up at all for any reason, that could be awkward.

        1. RabbitRabbit*

          Yup. My husband had a long Skype interview – fortunately with friends/very close colleagues – that had to be done while on vacation. He took over our hotel room for it, styled his hair nicely, and had a shirt, tie – and colorful shorts. He forgot about this when he got up to get a drink at a break, and heard peals of laughter behind him. (Yes, he did get the promotion anyway.)

        2. Glomarization, Esq.*

          Point taken, but I’m on regular videoconference calls and I find it’s not much of a challenge to slide out of my seat and get out of the range of the camera before my rear would be visible. Everybody’s set-up and camera will be different!

        3. Autumnheart*

          Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t wear pajama pants. Better to be physically uncomfortable for a little while than to blow a job because your puppy PJ bottoms made it on camera somehow. You might get away with black yoga pants or leggings, but in any case it should definitely be able to pass as street clothing.

        4. Le Sigh*

          Or just hey, wear pants. Unlike my college buddy who did this in his undershorts and forgot about it when he got up.

      2. Ra94*

        I once did a video interview for a big firm (where you just answer text questions to a camera), which was specifically recruiting students for an internship. I wore a suit and sat in front of a clean background in my tiny dorm room- just my white wall and a few small, framed posters. My feedback was that they liked my interview, but I should have taken the posters down and had an entirely white, blank wall- no posters, no bookshelves, no framed art. Seemed pretty extreme to me, especially as they were interviewing students who mostly didn’t have access to big houses with lots of open wall space.

        1. Glomarization, Esq.*

          Yeah, there’s no need to make your video chat look like you’re doing it right after you’ve had your mug shot taken. I mean, you don’t want an Al Pacino “Scarface” movie poster in the background, but a completely, starkly white wall shouldn’t be necessary.

      3. LKW*

        Disagree -if you can make it look like radiant light is emanating from your head, like a renaissance picture, it will send a subtle signal that they have found their new perfect employee.

        JK – find a wall that doesn’t get glare from windows, or show movement behind you -like a picture window where people drive or walk by.

    4. Emmie*

      I have conducted Skype interviews. The glare from your glasses does not matter! The other stuff does. Dress professionally. Practice your responses. Look at the camera. Take the interview seriously. Be aware of your background – it should be neat, and it is okay to have something in the background like wall art. I recommend that you do not interview from your couch. Watch for other house noise like loud family members, dogs, or coffee shop noise. Watch your posture. Practice with the technology and ensure that your net connection works well. Keep a copy of your resume nearby, something to write with and on (since you don’t want to flip screens on your device generally during something important, but also because it’s your first time using the technology for an interview), and something to drink. Log in early! Good luck!

    5. Pilcrow*

      Agree with the advice to test beforehand so you can anticipate what the interviewer will see. Make sure you’re face is being framed nicely and not some weird below the chin angle or only shows your forehead or so close they can count your nostril hairs.

      Remember to look at the camera lens, not the screen, particularly if your camera is mounted far from the screen. Most cameras are mounted above screens so looking at the screen (where the interviewer’s face is) comes off as you looking down an not making “eye contact.”

    6. 867-5309*

      Yes to the comment on paying attention to the space behind you!

      Also, I usually wear a bright colored top (think jewel tones or black), not white. Also, where real pants (not sweat pants or the like) because it will put you in the mindset of being in an interview.

      Lastly, in my experience, the other attendees are also noticing how THEY look on the screen and also taking notes, so they won’t pay attention unless something stands out. Glare on glasses have never been an issue for me.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Good advice here that I’ll add to…

        Put the camera at eye level. If using a laptop, you may want to prop up the device. No one wants to see up your nose, haha. Try to look at the camera, not at the screen so it appears you’re making eye contact.

        Agree with jewel tones and black for color choices. Avoid tight patterns or narrow-strips that can cause that weird camera effect of shimmering.

    7. EmilyG*

      If you have pets, even if you think they will not pester you or will be asleep or whatever, lock them in a bedroom! Ask me how I know…

      1. Catleesi*

        Yes! And if possible far away from where you will be doing the interview. Belonging to several needy cats – there is nothing quite like a loud and indignant MEOW right in the middle of an interview to throw you off and perhaps hurt your interview.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Personally, if I were the interviewer, I would love this and demand to see the kitty.

          2. EmilyG*

            So this actually kind of happened to me… had a Skype interview during cat’s usual naptime. I figured if I woke her up and put her in the bedroom, she’d yell. And in my small apartment, it might be audible to the interviewers and certainly distracting to me. So I let her sleep… half hour into the interview I see her little head pop up on the chair next to where I was sitting. Tried to unnoticeably stretch my arm out to put my hand on her head and keep her there… then POP there she was on the keyboard right in front of the camera. They had me on a giant screen talking to about six people so apparently she was Godzilla size. But somehow it worked out, because they’re cat lovers, I got the job, everyone still remembers it. (Even though my dear cat is now gone.) I think it worked out because I handled the interruption well.

    8. Sam*

      I wouldn’t worry about glare, but definitely dress professionally and have a clean background behind you. And if you’re interviewing from a laptop, it can help to sit it on a stack of books/papers/binders so you aren’t looking down at the camera! Having the webcam at eye level helps you make better eye contact on Skype!

    9. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I haven’t _interviewed_ on Skype, but lessons I learned from conference calls:
      Ahead of time, check your background — no laundry, no toys, only tidy paperwork, and the visible area is clean. Choose a location out of earshot of the front door in case someone knocks loudly… preferably far away from the neighbor rebuilding a Harley.
      Day-of, turn off your house phone. If possible, turn off your doorbell. Consider putting up a note telling deliveries to leave packages at door between x and y o’clock. And if you ARE going to wear PJ bottoms, test your camera angle to learn what people will see if you DO have to get up for some reason. (Like “helpful” neighbors who are upset on your behalf that FedEx left a package by your front door… after the first time that happened, I started telling my elderly neighbor when I had a conference call. She was in 7th heaven watching my door *with my permission*!)

    10. legalchef*

      In addition to what is said here, make sure that if you have popups on your computer enabled (new mail, imessage, etc), turn them off. Better yet, x out of any program other than skype.

    11. Escapee from Corporate Management*

      A few tips on what not to do, having conducted Skype interviews:
      1. Don’t use your phone. Holding your phone for a 30-minute interview is touch. Seen too many jittery video feeds.
      2. Ensure you will be in a quiet place. Besides the obvious (e.g., don’t take the interview from your local coffeeshop), make sure your door is closed and, if there are other people in your location, they know not to bother you. If you have young children, try to ensure they will not come wandering into the office (as shown on the famous BBC interview).
      3. Don’t multitask. Yes, your computer is in front of you, but this is not the time to have your emails and messages open in other windows. Close down programs so you are not distracted.

      Good luck!

    12. Hold My Cosmo*

      Have a drink of water (not spill-able), tissues, and lip balm nearby, but off camera. Coughing fits and runny noses always happen when you can’t afford to deal with them.

    13. Erin Withans*

      Be sure to look at your actual camera when you’re answering, not at the screen where you can see them/yourself. It gives the impression of eye contact, and makes you ‘feel’ more present.

    14. TheOtherLiz*

      I’ve evaluated a lot of skype interviews so here’s my advice from what I’ve seen done poorly:

      Think about your background and surroundings. I’ve seen people’s frilly pillowcases, had folks be backlit so they looked like they were anonymous witnesses in a Dateline piece, and heard people’s phone buzz – and seen them look down at texts – during interviews. Dress like you would in person, have a neutral or empty background. And if you have unavoidable circumstances, like you have to do it from the airport on the way to a family emergency, or your cat won’t leave you alone, acknowledging those and then carrying on will win the day. And everyone loves a nosey cat in an interview, right?

    15. Autumnheart*

      You won’t get glare on your glasses as long as you don’t sit too close to a light source or a window. Put a light about 5 feet in front of you at a 45-degree angle. This will be close enough to light you, but not so close that you should have glare issues. You don’t want the light directly above you (makes you look like a criminal in a noir film) or behind you (makes your face hard to see).

      Also have a dark background on your computer screen, and tab to it while you’re on camera. Otherwise you’ll wind up with white browser reflections on your glasses.

    16. Hamburke*

      Skype with a friend or if you have 2 computers that can be in the same room, you can skype yourself. You want to see that your lighting and sound work well and that you don’t have anything embarrassing in the background.

    17. Sara(h)*

      If memory serves me correctly, Alison did a fantastic post on this a while back – I’m sure a lot of what she said is also included in the responses on this thread, but it’s worth looking it up!

  7. De Minimis*

    I got the job I interviewed for last week! Really excited about it, but now it’s time to inform my supervisor and give notice. That’s always nerve wracking. Pretty sure they’ll have me work out the notice period [they did with the last person] but who knows.

    It doesn’t matter how much I dislike a job, it’s always difficult to have that conversation that you’re leaving. I was only here 7 months, but it was pretty obvious after a while that it wasn’t a fit for me, and thankfully what seems like the perfect opportunity came along.

    2. Ali G*

      Awesome! Honestly, if it really wasn’t a good fit all around, they might just be relieved and wish you well.

      1. De Minimis*

        I’m hoping for that, but I think there’s going to be some resentment because I’m part of several projects and am a backup to several people, and now they’re going to have to start all over with someone else, but….not my circus, not my monkeys. Hopefully they’ll find someone who is a better fit for the role.

        It’s been interesting for me too, after having had previous federal government experience [with what was more of a “field office’ type position] to realize that I’m not really a fit for the ultra-bureaucratic, “siloed” type of workplace. I think too, that since I was a contractor and not a regular employee, it was difficult for me to really feel a part of the team [though I have contractor coworkers here that are okay with things.]

    3. Bunny*

      Just as long as you don’t write a letter, ask for a meeting with your boss, and then hand them the letter as your notice without saying anything, I think you’ll be fine.

    4. Marion Ravenwood*

      Congratulations! Best of luck in your new role, and I hope things go OK with your supervisor.

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      That’s great news! Try to just rip off the bandaid, I know it hurts but it’s so much better after the agonizing period right up until you get to just get the news out there!

      1. De Minimis*

        And of course my supervisor has been on a call so far this morning with the door shut, so I’ll just have to keep waiting. Hopefully later this morning…

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          ARGH! Of course it would be one of those days.

          I’m still grateful I hated my last job so much and the owner that I waited until the very minute he finally sat down, swooped in and just dropped a “My last day is XXX, here I put it in writing too!” and flounced. But you my friend, you’re much better than I am [this is a good thing, I’m the worst!]

          1. De Minimis*

            I was finally able to meet with her prior to another meeting that we’d had scheduled, and of course it was fine—just going to work these last couple of week on handing things over and ensuring coverage. Most of my job was backing up other people who are still going to be here, so I don’t think it’s going to be a huge issue for anyone.

            I wasn’t that happy with the job itself, but framed it more as my moving on to this exciting new opportunity.

    6. Quackeen*

      Congratulations!

      I just did something similar, leaving a job after 5 months. When I gave my notice, it was extremely awkward, but I kept focusing on the transition plan and what I could do to document and shift my work. The good thing is, notice periods are finite and everyone gets through them.

  8. You Can Take My Life But You Cannot Take My Braid*

    I’m still cracking up about Braidgate from early this week. I have long hair that I wear either in a braid or loose every day. I get it trimmed every 2-3 months, and it has layers, so it’s thick and healthy, and not ratty looking. It definitely can get a little wild though! Despite this, I have made 4 career advancements in the past 6 years, increasing my salary from $12/hour to $60,000/year. All with my braid. Pretty sure I even wore a braid to the interview for my current job.(Just wait till you hear about my shoes/skirt length/lack of makeup!)

    I agreed with some of the comments that a lot of the expectations on women’s hair seem more tied to whether we spent a lot of time on it than whether it looks nice.

    1. Amber Rose*

      My hair is the longest and healthiest it’s been since high school and I am never cutting it again (aside from regular trims for split ends). And I refuse to tie it back because I don’t want to. Doesn’t seem to have affected my life in any way, which is why I was surprised that certain kinds of hairstyles are more professional than others. If it’s not bedhead or greasy, then leave it alone.

      Further exceptions: That trend when I was a kid of people spiking their hair with glue sticks. Don’t do that either. Professional or not, just don’t do it.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Mine too–it’s long and blonde and I like wearing it down. I interview with neat clean hair that’s styled nicely, the way I’d wear it to work every day. I really don’t care what anyone thinks.
        And I figured out a way to do it without heat or taking hours in the morning to style, so hey.

        1. Jsrbv*

          I have long hair too and now it’s randomly become curly. I wear it down to interviews too. I like how it looks, I’m comfortable and confident, I’ve had long hair for a long time so I don’t touch it or anything.

    2. Ali G*

      That was an interesting thread! I think my view comes from the fact that I have very fine hair. At some point, it’s just too long for itself – so I could never have long, healthy looking hair. When I do let it grow too long (sheer laziness on my part) I tend to not even try to style it and a low braid while it’s still wet is my go-to. Which obviously I would never do for an interview, big meeting, etc. In that case I would get my butt up early enough to make it presentable.
      But it was weird the vast divide in opinions! I don’t think I would judge *someone else* on their hair length/style, I just know *for me* it feels unprofessional because it comes from my lack of attention to myself.

      1. Autumnheart*

        I have long-ish fine hair, and when it gets to a certain point, I braid it and then put the braid into a bear clip. It looks like a fancy bun and also helps the clip stay in my hair.

    3. Manders*

      Hah, yes, I was surprised people were so worked up over that! I think you’re right about expectations for women’s hair. I managed to find a low-effort hairstyle that looks professional, but mostly because my hair happens to air dry in a way that looks like I’ve spent more effort on styling than I actually did.

    4. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Yeah, I’m an old, I don’t wear makeup, and I wear my long, curly, gray hair in a braid at the office. Every workplace is different, and everybody’s experience is different. But I think some readers must be working in “fishbowl” offices where there is just way, way too much attention paid to little details of people’s appearance rather than their actual work. And I’m still laughing at the extrapolation that someone would automatically assume lice in my household if they saw my hair in a braid. Also I will never stop laughing at the suggestion that braids, in and of themselves, are somehow “cultural appropriation” of indigenous culture.

      1. You Can Take My Life But You Cannot Take My Braid*

        The sisterwife comments were weird too. Even if a braid *was* part of a conservative religion (like the Mennonites)… sometimes women in conservative religious groups work. Deal with it!

        1. ThatGirl*

          Not all Mennonites are conservative and while I’ve certainly seen my fair share with braids (usually put up in a bun) it’s not a Mennonite Thing.

          But yes, plenty of Menno women work.

          (I’m a Mennonite PK so this is a Thing for me.)

          1. You Can Take My Life But You Cannot Take My Braid*

            Didn’t mean to imply that, sorry! I know a lot of progressive Mennonites. I particularly meant the ones who often get mistaken for Amish.

      2. Manders*

        Yes! A lot of the criticism seemed to be an attempt to come up with some sort of universal rule for a personal preference. It’s totally fine to prefer braids or no braids for your own hair, you don’t have to come up with a reason why a very common hairstyle is secretly sending some sort of extreme cultural or religious signal.

        I do think some people who were working the “cultural appropriation” angle were conflating several different hairstyles. Very small, tight braids and cornrows do have a cultural meaning in many areas, but the OP seemed to be describing putting long, straight hair in a single large braid.

      3. ThursdaysGeek*

        Although I usually wear my long, greying hair down, I’ve decided to wear in a braid more often, . Actually two braids. That’s what I have today – two pigtails with non-matching hair ties. No makeup. No trimming my hair (I don’t get split ends).

      4. Kettles*

        “I will never stop laughing at the suggestion that braids, in and of themselves, are somehow “cultural appropriation” of indigenous culture.”

        …..

        There have been braids in literally every culture since the dawn of time.

        1. Le Sigh*

          Yeah, I mean, there are specific kinds of braid styles that *can* be appropriation depending on who’s wearing them. But I feel like people were conflating braids as a whole with “specific styles and types that have meaning or history within a group or religion.”

          1. Sunshine*

            Sure! I can understand people saying box braids on white folk are appropriation, or as you say, acknowledging that certain styles are culturally specific. But these are plaits. They’ve been seen on Neolithic sculptures. Celts braided their hair, as did visigoths and Romans and Vikings. It’s just a… baffling pov.

        2. Tiny Soprano*

          There’s a tutorial on youtube for a braided hairstyle found on the >2000 year old Danish bog-preserved body known as the ‘Elling Woman.’ Just in case anyone wants to rock some Iron Age Danish braids.

      5. Move Over Thrawn - Florian Munteanu is BIGGER than you!*

        The cultural appropriation belief was just insane. Seriously?

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I usually wear my hair down or at most some swept up in a clip.

      I also wear blouses with adorable prints on them because I do what I want. I look professional, I’m not interested in working for anyone who doesn’t hire me because I wear my hair any specific way or didn’t wear the pants [lol skirts, no] they expect.

      If it’s business wear, it’s business wear. Deal or don’t, I had the same advancements as you have but my advancements were awhile back, when I was even less put together.

    6. Pinky Pie*

      This topic was surprisingly personal for me. The bit boss from heck used my hair length to torture me to the point she’d send me to the bathroom to fix my hair. I stayed in long enough to wash my hands and she was satisfied. I had lovely hair that went to my mid back at the time. Finally, just to get the witch off my back, I cut it to short short and have regretted it to this day.

    7. Drax*

      Actually I thought about that yesterday when I was going for an interview. Psyched me out, as my hair was a bit unruly so I normally would have braided part of it to keep it neat.

      Ended up going with my hair loose and bit wild, which is another faux pas as it’s long (past mid-back, I didn’t realize how long it was getting) but it didn’t seem to be an issue with my suit so I’m okay with that decision.

      1. You Can Take My Life But You Cannot Take My Braid*

        All the competing advice and expectations about women’s appearance definitely take a hit to our confidence in interviews and other high stakes situations. It sucks.

      2. RPCV*

        I’m fortunate enough to be in a position to say this, but I don’t think I’d want to work for a manager who paid so much attention to my hair for an interview that it affected their opinion of me that much. Bullet dodged!

        I get that first impressions are a thing, and matter, but if you can’t get past something as minor as someone’s hairstyle choice for the interview, then the problem is you, not the interviewee!

        At any rate, I hope your interview went well and the manager isn’t that type. Good luck!

        1. xarcady*

          Well, I did notice once that a candidate for a job had what looked like hair that had not been washed or combed in days, with a crooked part. It made her look unkempt.

          If she had been a better candidate, I might have overlooked that. But everything about her was messy/sloppy–her clothes, her resume–two pages, single spaced, with each job taking 2-3 lines. She’d had, if I remember correctly, 15-20 jobs in the past 3 years.

          So the hair was one part of a larger picture that made me say, “Nope.”

          But I’ve interviewed a lot of people, and that’s the only one where the applicant’s appearance left a lasting memory. Mostly, I just got a impression that this person was appropriately dressed/groomed for potential client visits and didn’t think about it again.

      3. designbot*

        I was actually a bit surprised at the suggestion that wearing one’s hair back is potentially required. I happen to think I look most put together when my hair is down. While I seldom get haircuts, my hair is full, healthy looking, shiny, and well cared for, and I regularly get complements on it and stopped by people asking who does it. Maybe it’s a Leo thing (ha, because today’s astrology letter), but my mane is one of my best features and I’ll be darned if you’re going to convince me that tucking it away is the only way to be professional. I feel like the people saying that are the same ones who think a beard is not appropriate for a professional man.

    8. Environmental Compliance*

      People are so incredibly weird about hair. Like ExBossLady, who threw a hissy when I mentioned in passing (to another coworker, who had short hair) that I was thinking about getting a pixie cut again, because a Young Woman (I’m nearly 30…) like myself should never get hair that Short, it’s too Unprofessional.

      New job, new pixie cut, much better situation all ’round.

      And funnily enough, prior to Pixie EC, I had elbow length hair that I kept in a french braid 95% of the time, as ponytails gave me headaches, and I hated having my hair constantly on my face.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I have a longer pixie, and soon I’ll be doing a short pixie for the summer. I personally think I look a lot more professional now than I did when I had really long hair. That might just be me though. My hair was healthy when it was longer but I wasn’t interested in taking care of it. It took two full days to air dry and I just didn’t have the will to blow dry it.

        On top of it being more professional for me, I think I also look my age more. I’m almost 30 and when I had long, long hair a lot of people mistook me for a teenager.

        1. Environmental Compliance*

          Same here to all the above! I have thick hair that just never lays right when long, and took forever to dry even with a blow dryer. And it’s nice to be immediately taken seriously when I walk into a group of contractors rather than someone confused on why the intern is out and about (seriously).

    9. Kiki*

      Allison’s initial response and a lot of the anti-braid comments bothered me because it seemed to be rooted in personal preference (or a childhood experience involving braids and lice??) more than any professional reason. I feel like there is a pervasive mental model of the modern professional woman that is embodied by Sheryl Sandberg: white, upper-middle class to wealthy, blown-out hair. That just isn’t attainable for most women on a daily basis.

      I have thick, curly hair. Until recently, it was common advice to straighten/ blow out curly hair for interviews because it is more professional. Blowing out my own hair is a skill I could develop, but it shouldn’t be a professional requirement. I braid my hair frequently for work because it is quick and keeps my hair looking consistently neat in all climates (an issue for curly hair). Imo, it looks neater than a ponytail for my hair.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Honestly, I think my initial response had a blindspot about hair texture. At least here in D.C., someone with fine, straight hair wearing a long, thin braid down their back would look unprofessional. (Note D.C. is really conservative about this stuff, so that’s influencing me.) Someone with thick, curly hair wearing a braid would look fine. I was picturing the former, and was wrong not to consider the latter as well.

        And I know people were annoyed at the statements the former would be frowned on. And personally, I don’t give a crap how anyone wears their hair. But I do think some looks will come across as more polished/professional than others, and a long thin braid of fine/straight hair is going to register as less than professional for a lot of people.

        1. Batgirl*

          Ah! You’re talking about a plait! I forgot the UK/US differences in wording. Here, ‘braid’ doesnt mean a three strand plait, it means woven right down the middle of the head (for non afro hair at least) like a French or Dutch style. It is much more popular with thick hair because you end up with a thick well styled rope, much better than the wild woman alternatives. Possibly on thin hair a hanging plait could look a little rat-taily. Honestly don’t know though, as you don’t tend to see it?

      2. EddieSherbert*

        Yeah, a lot of these “rules” don’t seem to be an option for curly hair. Honestly, anytime I pull my hair back in any way (ponytail or braid or bun), I wear a headband (usually a very thin – less then 1/2 and inch thick – black headband) to avoid having little frizzies sticking out everywhere. If I skipped the headband, I’d probably need 12 bobbypins. I can’t imagine how some people would take me wearing a headband in a professional environment…

        (I lovingly call the two MOST prominent short hair frizzy spots my devils horns… because, yup, for some reason I always have a clump of really short 4-6 inch long hairs right above my temple. So professional looking!)

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          What ARE those?? I have them too – and curly hair here. My mom used to get so angry with me as a kid for “cutting my hair” (thinking I was trying to cut bangs, I guess??) but it has always grown in that way. I also call them my horns or my beetle antenna. It is not a great look (nor very professional I’m sure). The gel only goes so far.

          1. EddieSherbert*

            Right? I’m 95% sure mine have never been cut or trimmed, period – and yet, they’re eternally always the same length! So weird. I love the idea of ‘beetle antenna’, though!

          2. Tiny Soprano*

            This is the whole reason I cut bangs. To hide the frizzies. In high school my friends used to call them ‘steel wool’ and I’ve definitely thought they looked like devil horns before.

          3. Batgirl*

            My nana called them kiss curls. No idea why as ‘bits of steel wool’ is more like it. There’s an afro hair styling expression which seems way more apt: ‘baby hairs’ which explains their permanent shortness. There’s a whole afro styling thing of making sure they are gelled down or pomaded flat which is called ‘laid’. I’ve tried it but laid baby hair is much for my caucasian curls; it makes em look greasy instead of the cutely smoothed look of afro hair. Spritzing them with Shea Moisture coconut water does work though (for me). As does my nan’s trick of tucking them inside a pin curl with product or finger wrapping them. A toothbrush spritzed with hair spray will also comb them back into a pulled back hair style sometimes.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          I have a big old cowlick that always flips my hair up on one side. It’s really obvious when I have bangs–it took me ages to grow them out. Even though I have a fivehead, I don’t really want to wear bangs again because it’s impossible to style properly!

      3. You Can Take My Life But You Cannot Take My Braid*

        I definitely agree about the expectation about blown out air. Blow drying hair is hard (I’m in my 30s and still couldn’t blow my hair out close to like a hair dresser can), time consuming, and damaging to hair. It’s a ridiculous expectation.

    10. Slovenly Braid Cultist*

      I’m still a little startled by it! But I guess the world takes all kinds. I probably wouldn’t be happy in the sort of office that demands high heels, makeup, short hair and all, so it’s for the best that they’d never hire me because my hair’s too long.

      I am still a little wounded to think that so many people are apparently dry heaving because I’ve got the audacity to exist in public with my disgustingly long (clean! Braided!) hair. But not enough to cut it to please them. C’est la vie.

      2. DaffyDuck*

        I was really surprised also. I always thought a French braid was considered chic and very professional. I have long hair, when I was younger it was past my hips but currently is mid back. Ponytail or French braid for home, usually some sort of clip for the top/front, part on the side and a small braid for the top, or a bun for when I go out “fancy”. Sure is funny seeing what folks think is acceptable.
        FWIW I am over 50 and my mother always liked short hair. Started growing mine long as a teenager (what a rebel!) and as it has always been healthy and very amenable to styling just kept it that way.

        1. Environmental Compliance*

          In a previous office with much longer hair….I always french-braided my hair, and tucked the end up under the braid itself with a spiral pin. 99% of that was I hated having my hair on my face or my neck and I knew how to braid. Somehow my ponytails always looked lumpy (thanks, cowlicks!), and I couldn’t do a fancy up style to save my life, so a braid it was.

          Now I solve the issue of hair-in-face-or-sticking-to-neck by having a pixie cut, which I think suits my lifestyle/face a lot better, but I’ve never thought anything of someone having generically braided hair.

    11. Coverage Associate*

      Another funny thing is corporette occasionally talks about making sure your “look” isn’t “fussy.” I remember a post about whether a ponytail with a twist was too complicated to be serious/professional.

      So, yeah, just can’t win.

      1. Tiny Soprano*

        I searched ‘hair’ on corporette after reading your comment (because I must be a masochist) and oh my god. If your boss is paying that much attention to your ponytail there’s something seriously wrong with your office.

    12. Rebecca*

      I wear my nearly waist length hair down, not styled, it does whatever it wants. It does not affect my job performance, so in my mind, that’s what matters.

    13. Dr. Doll*

      If it’s good enough for Jane Goodall, it’s good enough for me. So I put my straight, fine, getting-thinner medium brown hair into a smooth ponytail every single day.

      I appreciate “You Can Take My Life’s” observation that it’s more about looking like we spent Time and Money than whether hair (or other aspects of appearance) looks nice. Sigh.

    14. ello mate*

      Omg are you me!? I wear a braid and in the last 4 years have went from $12 an hour to 60k-EXACTLY. Go braided ladies.

    15. dawbs*

      I also think this is one of the places where the AAM world has some white collar tunnel vision.

      Loose long hair is a hazard.
      I always wear my hair back or up, and in the last 20 years I’ve still managed to set it on fire (not BADLY-and to be fair, my hair tie literally broke and sent my hair cascading down onto the material I was soldering), caught it in a small motor for an electrical lesson for kids (which isn’t dangerous as much as it just rips out chunks rather painfully) , and managed to coat it in some harmless but difficult to wash out chemicals (ok, slime. It was slime. Slime DOES wash out with enough water, FTR).

      Which isn’t to say that everyone has to wear their hair up all the time–I don’t. But I do consider people who wear their hair up to the interview to be more dressed for the job; the same way I’d consider them wearing closed toed shoes (no open toes here!) more dressed for the job. And I’d consider the scraggly braid (which is what I have when I braid) to be a very slightly better choice than loose. (although neither would keep someone from getting a job)

      But I ALSO have a supply of new-in-package hair things (a variety. clips, sticks, and elastic bands, bobby pins, spin pins–I am an effing 1 shoebox drugstore, of supplies for students) on my desk that I hand out when I’m showing off things that are hair-bringers (ha) of doom.

    16. Lucy*

      I have had one or more braids in my hair every day since, to smoke out the commentariat.

      And although there’s otherwise no change to my “look” (e.g. a narrow braid on one side, into a bun or ponytail like 99% of other days) I have had several compliments each day. So I’m not sure what to conclude from the experiment.

  9. Snark*

    Well, I’m finally back in my office after the bomb cyclone/snowpocalypse/blizzicane turned Colorado into a bad knockoff of The Day After Tomorrow for two days. And even then, it was a good thing I have a Subaru with snow tires. Working in the middle of nowhere is really quite a thing.

    This is going to be the most productive Friday ever!

      2. rubyrose*

        My lights flickered some, but was not bad. I work at home, so did not have to deal with the roads.

    2. Snark*

      Accidentally hit return and it submitted….since my workplace occasionally does a good impression of Siberia in the winter, anyone got any tips for hitting the ground running after a snow day or two knocks you off kilter?

      1. Happy Lurker*

        YMMV – relaxing music at very low volume on my phone, minimize and ignore my email, shut all non task windows on my computer and half shut my door. A lot of times I skip the music and mutter to myself. I pick one big task and hit it hard for an hour or so, eat a snack and hit the next.
        Good luck!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      We got the rain arm from that, along with a crap ton of very high wind (50 mph gusts). I wonder–if you drove a high-profile vehicle in your job, would it be acceptable to call in under those conditions? A semi-truck actually got blown over in Texas!

    4. JenRN*

      Oh no. Just no. We get the Colorado lows after they’ve dumped on you, hit the Great Lakes and loaded up on moisture and then it dumps on us. We’ve had over 2.5 m of snow fall this year and anything that falls now is wet and heavy. I love snow and winter, but I am so over it this year.

  10. Amber Rose*

    I have no work to do. Rather, the system I need to do all the work piled on my desk is badly damaged, has been sent away for repairs, and I’m under strict orders to pretend for the time being that it never existed because anyone trying to get in right now may possibly break it worse. We can’t ship anything. We can’t build anything, because we can’t order any parts. I can’t look up any information. But, as is typical, I’m not allowed to do non-work things like read or crochet (because I’m being paid to work, natch). I have to look like I’m working while being unable to work. Even my boss is at a loss.

    I’M DYING. SEND ENTERTAINMENT. D:

    In other news, I’m not threatening. I gave everyone shit for being passive aggressive in a meeting (because I’m tired of people coming to me to complain about other people and asking me to deal with it) and one of upper management said that was awesome, but I should ask him to back me up when I because he’s more threatening than I am. I was thinking I should switch to leather, tattoos and a pompadour to boost my intimidation check, what do you think?

    1. No Tribble At All*

      Detective Rosa Diaz is intimidating. Ergo, you should switch your hair to something crazy every week like she did in that episode with the robo-murder. Then you will be intimidating like Rosa Diaz.

        1. valentine*

          You can’t go wrong with leather, tattoos, and a pompadour. Also 13/10 recommend a switchblade comb and a really sharp snap of the fingers.

        2. JanetM*

          This mental image makes me very happy. (I have hair down to my knees. I can’t imagine how much product it would take to turn it into a mohawk.)

          1. Seeking Second Childhood*

            Try it the old fashioned way: beaten egg whites. Seriously. You can play with it and make pound cake with the yolks. ;)

    3. Hold My Cosmo*

      If you are actually interested in appearing more intimidating, cultivate the often-recommended AAM viewpoint of observing your colleagues as if you are an outsider viewing a strange civilization. It will help you to get some mental distance from the situation, and acting slightly aloof and disinterested (rather than reactive and stressed out) can be intimidating. Emotional investment = vulnerability.

      That said, don’t completely check out, or you risk seeming like you don’t want to be there at all.

      2. Amber Rose*

        I already do that, honestly. Mostly because I frequently feel like a stranger in a strange civilization. Like, why are my coworkers currently discussing the most deadly mushrooms on earth? Why was my boss talking to someone else about body hair waxing a little while ago? Does nobody else find it weird that people sometimes jokingly offer each other sexual favors at work?

        I don’t know. It doesn’t bother me exactly, but it’s so friggin weird around here all the time.

    4. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      My mom was five foot nothing, wore wool suits and one in pumps. She was the assistant to the CEO and scared the living shit out of everybody.
      She said that at work, quotes to her included:
      “you never yell.”
      “You never swear”
      “you never sweat”
      to which I replied,
      “Well CLEARLY I got someone else’s fucking genes.”

      2. Amber Rose*

        My mom was the same way. Five foot two, wore pink suits and pumps and had short curly hair, and she scared the hell out of everyone. She had a way of seeming much taller than she was. She was in business, negotiating with airlines to create new routes, extremely well known and respected in her field, and managed to achieve all that without even a college degree.

        I did not inherit her drive and presence. I am a wilting wallflower of a human being most of the time.

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Do you have any device that will get you to the internet? If yes, time to google “free online courses”!

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      My dear old boss told my predecessor, who was at the time trying to replace herself, that he wanted her to hire someone who was “punk rock” and “took no sht”.

      Little did they know when I rolled in I had just went through a massive overhaul post-leaving my last job who didn’t care what I did to my hair/clothes. I never did go back because I had outgrown it by that point but I cackle at the idea of this image being intimidating.

    3. Marion Ravenwood*

      I’m so sorry – that sucks. Hope you find something that’s right for you soon.

    4. caliopi*

      I’m sorry. I’ve been laid off before. It sucks. I know there isn’t much I can say to make you feel better. But I diligently job searched and found my way. I hope you have luck on the new job front.

    6. PlatypusOo*

      Actually, yes! I was working as a dresser for a comedian who was doing a shoot for Netflix. His wife had a “problem” with me and made up these insane lies about an interaction we had and I was asked to leave the building. Super depressing.

        1. PlatypusOo*

          I’ll never know the answer and it seems wacky to say but…I don’t know what else it could be.

    7. ChimericalOne*

      That sucks. A lot. :( My advice from when I got fired a few years back: Take a week to yourself, if you can. Go for a walk. Enjoy a book. Clean your house. Whatever gets your mind off it. Give yourself a little time to process. Then set a schedule for getting back out there — applying for however many hours per day, working on your resume, etc.

      I hope you find yourself in better circumstances soon!

    8. PlatypusOo*

      Also: sorry if you are having a bad time right now. Even if you didn’t like the job getting fired is so demoralizing.

      1. Zephy*

        > Even if you didn’t like the job getting fired is so demoralizing.

        +1 to that. Happened to me around this time last year.

    9. CastIrony*

      I’m so sorry! I may be joining you soon.

      Take care of yourself and take a break before you search for another job!

    10. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      Not this week. But other weeks.
      Make a list of all the things you thought about doing while you were at work but couldn’t because you were at work and try to do some of them. It helped me feel like I was in control of my time and my life.
      (Full disclosure, it was 11 in the morning. I was eating some instant cheesy potatoes and watching sitcom reruns interrupted by infomercials and thinking that my life was crap without my job. Suddenly, I realized I didn’t like that job. All day at that job, I imagined being somewhere else doing something else. So I put down my fork, got up and did those things.)

      1. Grandma Mazur*

        I thought you were going to say that eating instant cheesy potatoes and watching sitcom reruns was what you had imagined doing while you were at work…

        1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
          That was 20 years ago. I think that’s exactly what I’d do now!

    11. Drew*

      Not this week but in the past I’ve been – well, not FIRED, as such, but it was gently suggested that I should resign at the end of my current contract to avoid the unpleasantness of going through with a firing. It worked out – I was growing to hate the job anyway and needed a change – and the timing gave me the chance to find something more suited to me and save face with coworkers.

      It still sucked. I’m sorry, #squad.

    14. Sandman*

      Not this week, but I have been fired before. They were really unkind about it, too – it was such a dysfunctional office. The worst thing about it was letting it get to my head and affect who I believed myself to be at a deeper level, not thinking that I had landed in a bad place or even done bad work but that I was terrible and incapable of succeeding. It really messed me up. I hope that’s not the direction you go, but if you do I’d encourage you to get yourself into therapy or similar to deal with that kind of fall-out before it affects you in the long run. Good luck. <3

  12. OOPS*

    Green food themed potluck at work today. I made pistachio fluff (pistachio pudding, pineapple, & cool whip).

    Turns out, my supervisor is allergic to pineapple and one of my teammates is allergic to all nuts. Luckily, I put a note on the dish listing the ingredients so I didn’t accidentally poison anyone.

    1. Bunny Girl*

      I miss having potlucks every so often. I really love to bake but my boyfriend and I are both trying to lose about 50 pounds each so I don’t bake at home for us a lot.

    2. CupcakeCounter*

      I just found out I’m allergic to pineapple too – it blows as pineapple is delicious!

    3. Mbarr*

      Pistachio fluff. Ugh. When I was little, I used to cry when my parents made this cause I hated it so much. And we had a rule in our household that all the kids were allowed ONE thing they didn’t have to eat (mine was broccoli), so pistachio fluff was still forced upon me.

      (To be fair, a couple of years ago, my mom made it again, and I didn’t hate it… But the childhood trauma was still too real. Also, what kind of parents force their kids to eat a pudding/cool whip combo?! LOL)

      1. Happy Lurker*

        Mine was baked beans. I had to sit in front of it for 2-3 hours one Saturday night and was then served it for breakfast Sunday morning. I will never ever tell my father that now, 35 years later, I love baked beans.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        We had a three-bite rule. You had to eat three bites of whatever it was before you could leave the table. My brother was the Crown Prince Picky of The Kingdom of Whine, so he always ended up sitting there the longest.

        We also had to taste a food before we could say “I don’t like that.” I instigated this rule when I had a *stepdaughter* and it backfired on me when I had to try a spaghetti sandwich. >_<

    5. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      Tell, them, hey man, potlucks are not for the weak. You get your plate and you take your chance.
      This week on Survivor: Office Potluck…

    6. Stop Touching Me!*

      I’m a huge fan of labeling dishes with allergens, or ingredients in general (I never would have thought of pineapple as an allergen!). It’s just courteous to everyone! Kudos for doing that! (Also, that dish sounds delicious!)

    7. Drew*

      Mmm, I love that stuff and my mom still makes it for every holiday dinner. We usually add marshmellows and pecans or walnuts, and I’ve been known to sub in mandarin oranges for half of the pineapple.

    8. Seeking Second Childhood*

      “I don’t know what it is, but it’s green!” –Scotty, Star Trek the first

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          A little bit of background for this… I lived after college as the one white kid with four or five people of Asian ancestry. I learned to cook some Vietnamese some Taiwanese some Singapore you get the idea. So fast forward a few years and I’m dating someone who grew up working in his family’s restaurant and had gone to cooking school. I cooked Vietnamese stir fry and he asked about the nuoc mam. I had just poured a small spoonful for the pot so held it towards him and said try it. He thought I was offering him the whole spoon and downed the whole spoon. He still hasn’t forgiven me. If you don’t know nuoc mam either, well… it’s as intensely salty as soy sauce but fermented from fish not soy.
          Think liquid anchovies.
          I had expected him to touch a finer to the sauce and taste a drop. He ate the spoonful.

  13. Admin by Day Roller Derby by Night*

    My institution sites workman’s comp as a reason for having an official “no working from home” policy. They seem to be saying “what if you get injured? you’re not really at work, but you are! What then?” Is this a thing that could actually cause them problems?

    2. Amber Rose*

      No? It’s handled the same as if you got hurt while driving to the store for work. If you’re acting in the reasonable course of your duties and you get hurt, it’s a workplace injury regardless of where it happened.

      I mean, IANAL or an expert in worker’s comp law around the world and maybe it’s different where you are, but I don’t see why it would be.

    3. Natalie*

      It doesn’t cause a problem in the sense of providing coverage – workers comp policy’s cover employees any time they are working, whether or not they are on the employer’s premises. A plumber that works in client homes or an admin sent to the office supply store are still covered by their company’s workers comp policy even though they are off the company’s premises. Similarly, a remote worker would generally be covered in their home assuming remote work is allowed by their employer.

      They may actually be concerned about their lack of control over the premises and/or the likely lack of witnesses to an injury, or they’re just uncomfortable with WFH and are reaching for reasons.

    4. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I think the concern (which is likely overplayed) is they have no way of knowing how safe your home is. You could be a resident of Ghost Ship for all they know. But I don’t think it’s a serious concern. I can’t speak to the legal aspects…

      1. Overeducated*

        My workplace has a “self-certification” checklist you have to fill out for home workplace safety before being allowed to telework, so I guess that’s how they can cover themselves. They define telework as permission to work at an approved alternate work station, not just anywhere outside of the office.

        1. Admin by Day Roller Derby by Night*

          Oh, that’s a good suggestion to bring to them if I ever wanted to press the issue.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          Similarly, when I did a significant chunk of 100% telecommute, I had to get approval that involved a form describing my dedicated work space, level of internet access, etc. And provide photos of the work space.
          If you suspect that’s an issue, some of those forms might be online for borrowing.

      2. Not Me*

        This is why. If they really wanted to allow people to work remotely they could require an affidavit and pictures of your work environment. There are also OSHA concerns with remote working, data security, etc. It’s a pretty big can of worms legally for an employer.

    5. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      Only problems caused by people who call shenanigans on their crap reasoning. If you don’t want employees working from home, say you don’t want employees working from home.

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        At Oldjob, if you wanted to work from home on a regular basis, they would send someone out to your home to take a look at your work space and make sure it was “up to par”

    6. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      “Hi, I’d like to apply for Worker’s Comp. I got absorbed in writing a reply to your email, and failed to feed my cat on time, so she scratched me.”

  14. No Tribble At All*

    Examples of stuff working well because everyone behaved like a reasonable person at work: go!

    I joined a new team (A) but still sat next to team (B). After agonizing about being disruptive, I asked someone on team (B) who sits next to team (A) if he would swap desks with me, and he said yes! He works remotely half the time and doesn’t care about his desk. My convenient cubicle will be ready on Monday :)

    1. Garland not Andrews*

      What a very sensible and logical thing to do! Amazing what just talking and communicating with your coworkers can do! :-)

    2. NACSACJACK*

      Yeah!!! One of our contractors sits at a desk halfway across the floor but is over here conferring with my colleagues. I wish I could offer up my desk since I work solo a lot, but I have an employee desk9six feet/two monitors/file cabinet/bookshelf) and he has a contractor desk (3 feet/1 monitor). :(

    3. Jadelyn*

      I was still using the same computer I was given when I started working here 5 years ago, and it was starting to slow down badly, right as my role is growing to include more intensive data analysis work. I agonized over looking demanding or spoiled (love those millennial stereotypes…) for asking for an upgraded machine, but after encouragement – on an open thread here in fact – I sent an email to my boss asking what we could do about either upgrading my current machine or requesting a new one that can handle the stuff they need me to do now.

      The response came back literally 5 minutes later: “Of course! Write up the specs you need and I’ll send the request to the head of IT.”

      Just last week, they set up my new baby. Current-gen hex-core i5 processor, 16G RAM, a 256G SSD, running Windows 10 Pro. I hadn’t even asked for that much, lol – I did request a current-gen i5 with a minimum of 8G and Win10 instead of 8.1, but I didn’t even mention an SSD, and they gave me more RAM than I originally asked for. Amazingly, my company is staffed with people who understand the value of investing in good-quality equipment for people to work on, and nobody thought their budding data analyst asking for an upgrade from a 5-year-old computer was over the top. Who’d have guessed?

    4. LKW*

      I scheduled a meeting and someone sent me an invite for the same time that had several other people from my meeting invited to their meeting. I sent a note and said “Can you move your meeting to an hour earlier? I need the following four people at my meeting for this specific purpose. ” …. and she moved the meeting!

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      My new office is near a large open area that does not yet have any cubicles in it, just two sofas. Twice this week I have poked my head around the corner, tapped my ear, and ducked back into my cubicle and my co-workers came over to apologize for being loud.
      We all commiserated saying soothing things about terrible open offices and voices carrying…and went on with our day. And I didn’t even use my words!

    7. Jasnah*

      My office sent around a poll asking if we should get a fridge/microwave. We got enough votes to get a fridge/microwave. They’re pretty nice and clean still. No fights that I’ve seen so far.

  15. Trout 'Waver*

    I want to give a shout-out to a certain company that e-mailed me not one, but two rejection notes simultaneously for the same job. The first said the job posting was closed due to business needs causing the position to be eliminated. The second said they were only proceeding with more qualified candidates.

    Way to give confidence you know what you’re doing, guys.

    3. Art3mis*

      I had a company that emailed me a rejection and then called me twice, I guess to make sure I knew they weren’t interested.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Maybe you should warn the qualified candidates that the position is being eliminated. /s

      I am very sorry you got the rejection notices.

    5. Zephy*

      Sounds like a bullet dodged to me. Or a whole bunch of bullets dodged, Matrix-style, more likely.

    6. Autumnheart*

      I feel bad for whoever they hire. He’s gonna get to work and find out he’s out of a job!

  16. I Work on a Hellmouth*

    Well guys, it has turned out to be a pretty terrible week, even by Hellmouth standards. There have been termite swarms in apartments, baby squirrels trapped in heater closets wreaking havoc (assumedly adorably), a terrible instance where I laughed about the squirrels and then learned that my boss was making some hideous homophobic joke at the expense of the pest control lady who was dealing with the squirrel situation and THOUGHT I WAS LAUGHING AT HER JOKE, McGruff… well, she has decided that I am her enemy and am sabotaging her (and she also has been slipping out to make 30 minute personal calls several times per day this week which has my boss on the warpath, which McGruff is also blaming me for), and all of the usual fun. It was mostly rolling off of my back, because 1) My boss being mad at McGruff means I am out of her doghouse and can work without being gaslit, given impossible projects, or otherwise punished, and 2) The job hunting is going well and I think I might have some pretty good prospects that might actually (finally) turn into employment offers. I was feeling really buoyant and hopeful—and then a resident tried to physically attack me.

    I want to stress that I am okay. The resident was stopped from actually laying hands on me. But it was extremely upsetting. It started with a phone call, where the resident called demanding to speak to the manager (who was off property) about an issue with a service request, and who snapped in the middle of the call and began yelling and being really aggressive before threatening that she was coming over right then to see my “rude ass” (guys, we have the call recorded and I have listened to it several times since, and I still don’t know why she flipped out and started screaming). I went to tell my leasing staff to call the courtesy officer and the maintenance crew right away because I felt that this person really was heading directly to office and felt that she might continue shouting/create a scene and refuse to leave when asked. Then all of a sudden she was screeching into the parking lot and charging into the office, demanding to know “Who is Hellmouth?! Where the hell is Hellmouth?!” I tried to calm them down, they kept yelling. I told them they would have to step outside and come back when we could all be calm. They refused and started swearing. I told them that they couldn’t yell and swear in the office and would have to step outside. They told me the “could damn well say whatever they wanted to to [my] ass” for what they pay to live here. I told them if they did not leave they would be escorted out and instructed McGruff to call the courtesy officer, they said that they were going to “hand me my ass” and lunged right at me. Fortunately, the one good maintenance tech that we have had gotten to the office at this point (the courtesy officer, it turns out, was off on a vacation that no one knew about and everyone else figured someone else would go to the office), jumped in front of them and caught them, and physically escorted them out.

    So I’ve filed a police report, I’m pressing charges, the property is filing for eviction (although I don’t think my boss has filled out an incident report or told corporate about anything—however, I’ve made sure to tell my corporate mentor about it), and I am (obviously) very desperate to leave. My boyfriend and I crunched the numbers again and I still can’t quit without another job lined up, but at least it seems like I have prospects on the not-too-far-off horizon? I have an interview for an admin position next week, and while the job is not as awesome as some of the ones I have applications in progress for over at Local Big University, if I get an offer and it meets my minimum income requirements I will very gratefully take it.

    1. Snark*

      Jesus, I read this every week and long for popcorn, but this one is just downright scary af. Get the hell out of there, even at the cost of my entertainment.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I think of you every now and then and involuntarily cross all my fingers and toes that you escape soon with your health and sanity. Sometimes I feel like you should get one of those paranormal investigator types from those TV shows to go over and see if you’re actually on a real hellmouth.

    3. Marion Ravenwood*

      Jesus. That sounds awful. I’m glad you’re OK, but that’s… really quite worrying. Fingers crossed one of the jobs you’ve applied for says yes! (And if they don’t, I will happily contribute to an AAM fundraiser to help you GTFO faster.)

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Thanks! I’m still feeling good about the job hunt, so that’s a real positive.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Thanks. I am not taking it for granted that I was pretty fortunate in how it turned out.

    5. Lilysparrow*

      You gotta do you, but I’d have my desk packed that day and be cleaning houses or checking groceries tomorrow. The emergency credit card is for emergencies, and getting attacked is an emergency.

      1. Turtlewings*

        Agreed. Hellmouth, I know it’s super easy for us to say “leave and let the chips fall” when none of them are falling on us, but honest to God I don’t think you would ever regret leaving this job, even if it put you in debt forever. Be honest, if you got fired tomorrow, would you burst into tears of relief? If yes, get out, money be darned.

        1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

          If I got fired tomorrow I would burst into tears at the thought of potentially losing my home/not being able to eat/not being able to feed my dog. And getting fired would be something that I had zero control over. There is no guarantee that I will find employment quickly. I can not choose to leave and potentially have no income or income under a certain necessary level for an unknown, potentially lengthy amount of time. I can not give notice until I know I will have a way to cover my bills. That’s just reality for me. My partner and I have been trying to figure out a way for me to be able to just leave, but we are not able to indefinitely swing it financially without me being employed and making at least a certain amount in salary.

    6. revueller*

      Yikes! Yikes! Yikes! Glad you’re okay, but that’s so scary! Hope the charges go through smoothly and that you don’t have to deal with anyone horrible soon.

      *looks at Boss and McGruff.* well, let’s hope for no one more horrible.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        The terrible thing happening preempted a story about McGruff’s latest claim of both drama and of being an amazing crime fighting detective. I don’t know that anyone more horrible anytime soon is statistically likely.

          1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

            Hold on to your butt!

            McGruff has now claimed that she needs to switch weekend shifts with The Good Leasing Consultant and work this Saturday because her father, who lives in another state, has been scammed out of $22,000.00 via robocalls. This allegedly happened earlier this week and she was allegedly contacted by fellow members of her father’s church who tracked her down to tell her about this. She claims that her father confirmed this when she called and asked him (after the police in his state refused to give her any information). She then reportedly told her father that she solved her case of fraud by herself and she could solve his. McGruff then spittingly recounted how her father’s girlfriend said that both that statement and McGruff herself were absolutely stupid. Also, McGruff claims to have uncovered the fact that her father was diagnosed with dementia and secretly had his girlfriend set up with power of attorney, and says that neither her father nor his girlfriend know that she is aware of that. So McGruff says that she needs to work this Saturday so she can drive to her father’s state Sunday and on Monday (which she would then have off as a comp day for working Saturday) go see a lawyer and have power of attorney forcibly transferred to her. And also maybe do some good Hardy Boys work on that missing $22,000.00. She also says that maybe this will be the thing that will allow she and her father to finally have a relationship.
            ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

              1. Decima Dewey*

                Oh, my. So forcibly overturning her father’s stated wishes is somehow going to improve their relationship? Okay.

              3. NOTaFan*

                You’re being a bit insensitive here. “Allegedly” this, “claiming” that. You were just complaining that she was making 30 minute phone calls all day. Seems to me like that might be her father’s church friends calling.
                Elderly people are conned over the phone all the time. It’s really not funny.

                Furthermore, if he’s been diagnosed with dementia AND lost $20k on those calls, he’s probably not be in any position to sign off on a power of attorney. He very well could have been coerced by his girlfriend. In any case, McGruff has good reason to be concerned.

                I know you have issues with her but that comment was just mean-spirited.

                1. Batgirl*

                  I think you missed the part where McGruff is going to solve this herself; that’s the amusing part, not ‘haha her dad has dementia’.

                2. I Work on a Hellmouth*

                  Except she’s been caught making up increasingly dramatic stories since she started about seven weeks ago. She’s made up medical issues. She invented a very dramatic story involving her pugs that was later thoroughly debunked. We’re pretty sure she made up the identity theft story when she started. She also made up a big story about planning her fortieth birthday party when she interviewed with my boss, but she’s actually in her fifties. I’ve also watched her lie about both big and small things that happen in the office.

                  I’m sorry if you think I’m being mean spirited, but I have no reason to believe her given her demonstrated dodgy history with being truthful. She isn’t credible, and her tone and manner while relaying this story was, frankly, suspect. She’s cried wolf a lot.

            2. animaniactoo*

              I’ve held power of attorney before. Good luck getting it forcibly transferred. Good luck with that attempt helping the relationship with dad.

              Geez, McGruff, I’m shocked. Just shocked I tell you. That dad would make his gf the power of attorney over his boundary stomping daughter.

              ——————–

              For you, Hellmouth – like others, I come here specifically to check in on you on Fridays. I don’t have as much time to participate in this thread as I’ve had before and would like to again, but you write well, you’ve got a pretty decent sense of humor/realism about all of it, and I hope you make it out soon. I’ll miss the stories, but not as much as I’ll appreciate knowing you don’t have to put up with this crap anymore. Best of luck.

              1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

                Aw, thank you. I’m hoping I’ll be out really soon—but we’ll always have walls full of squirrels.

    7. Aphrodite*

      Yes, I read this every week too and my alarm continues to grow. I am happy to hear some other employment prospects are in the works (academia has its own craziness but it is certainly a lot calmer than where you are now). But . . . can you not just get a retail job if nothing else? Would that salary work as temporary? Or have you talked to any temp agencies? I am wondering they might have any longer-term gigs that could work. Also, I’ve mentioned this before but here in my city there is one temp agency that has contracts with the city and the university to supply their temps. That’s how people get into those jobs on a permanent basis because it’s nearly impossible otherwise.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Unfortunately, the temp agencies here primarily seem to be kind of garbage. And other than a position at Whole Foods that I applied for (I was immediately rejected because there was one week a night where I could not close), there are no retail or other subsistence-type positions that would meet my minimum income requirement. I can’t knowingly put myself in a completely uncertain financial situation for an unknowable amount of time.

    8. CatCat*

      OMG. This is really scary. Thinking all the good thoughts for an offer ASAP that meets your needs!!

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        On the plus side, once I move on even the most Fergussy of Fergus coworkers will not bother me for quite some time. I will at least temporarily be normal-workplace-annoyances immune.

        1. Karen from Finance*

          That’s one hell of a silver lining.

          And when your immunity runs out, there’s always this blog. For me it has been a godsend.

        2. ArtsNerd*

          In my case the immunity did wear out but it took some time.

          Sending good vibes of Getting TFO and getting paid in a much better environment. Take care of yourself.

    10. Bee's Knees*

      Yikes. Sorry that happened to you. On the plus side (if there is one) that would make me think twice about a manager if one of the employees got attacked and was pressing charges, and I hadn’t heard anything about it from her.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Yeah, I don’t think it’s going to look great if it turns out that no incident report was filed.

    12. sammy_two*

      If you get the job at the university, take it! It will get your foot in the door and if it’s anything like my university, the benefits are awesome. Once you’re on campus, get involved in professional organizations/associations and get to know other admins at your level and above. Then when a job opens up that you’re really excited about, you’ll be well positioned for it. Also, for anyone applying to positions at universities (at least at mine), the adage that “I have 60-70% of the qualifications they’re looking for so I’m going to apply” doesn’t work. You have to meet every single required minimum qualification and address each one either in your cover letter or your resume or you will absolutely not get an interview. If they say you need experience with Microsoft Office, address it in some way, even if you think it’s obvious you do since you clearly typed up/formatted your resume and cover letter. (I didn’t realize this until I had already applied for a couple of jobs on campus.) I hope your current job will one day be this crazy thing you had to put up with that you can laugh about. Good luck!

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Awesome tips, thanks! The way the timeline is shaking out, I am (hopefully) going to have an offer from one of the non-Local Big University places I have applied to since the LBU hiring process is kind of glacial, but the positions I’ve applied for at LBU are genuinely things that I would have applied to if I *didn’t* work on a Hellmouth. Maybe fortune will smile on me and the process will speed up a little on one of them.

    13. Drew*

      At least you have an iron-clad answer why you’re looking for a new job.

      “I figured that when one of our residents tried to attack me physically and my manager didn’t lift a finger to protect me, it was time to move on.”

      Sending you all my best wishes and good vibrations for finding something immediately.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Heh. I was planning to just focus on how I never really intended to go back to property management and then talk about why I am excited about Field X, but I can probably pretty easily justify not completing a two weeks notice if it comes down to it…

        1. Quinoa*

          Why not take the two weeks off ANYWAY and just not give the notice? Two weeks of rest may be just the thing you need, if you can make it happen financially.

    14. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I thought of you recently when my company’s (outsourced) facilities manager gave notice recently. My co-worker heard all sorts of inappropriate yelling from a woman that sounded to be from the outsourcing company. His responses were too calm to be heard. And two days later he was done. From what she overhead we suspect he gave 2 weeks notice and was told to get out ASAP — and then they backtracked because they needed someone to oversee the construction work in progress.
      May your next excellent job come soon and may the transition be easy!
      (And may you find something else to talk about to entertain our Fridays.)

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Woooooooow! Why do people think screaming is ever an answer to anything. Good for him for his prompt escape! And gracias!

    15. MatKnifeNinja*

      My brother works at a rental in grounds keeping/landscaping. He had a resident swing a old school shovel at him (for digging dirt).

      The resident was PO he couldn’t repair an engine in the middle of the common court yard. (Big green space). It took much effort to drag the engine to that spot.

      My brother called the cops, and the cops wound up tasering Mr. Mechanic.

      We need an aerial spraying of Haldol and lithium this week. People are off the chain.

      Keep safe! Fast job getting vibes your way.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Holy moly! I’m so glad that the police made it out in time to deal with that creep!

        Yeah, I don’t know if there’s some sort of Super Weird Mercury Retrograde Permanent Full Moon or what, but people seem to be particularly volatile. No. Bueno.

    16. Weegie*

      Good luck with the admin interview! Let us know how it goes.

      Of course, now I’m imagining your answer to the following question: ‘Why do you want to come and work with us?’

      (Silently hands over hard copy of AAM posts . . . )

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Thanks! Will do!

        I may just mail a big envelope of hard copies over to HR after I give notice at this point. Or write the Glassdoor review to end all Glassdoor reviews. I am weary, and running out of cares to give.

    17. Shamrockanon*

      Oh dear Lord. I am very happy that you’re okay, but gosh that’s so scary. I totally get that you can’t quit without another income stream, but I’d think that someone trying to PHYSICALLY ATTACK YOU would be considered constructive discharge and thus you’d be eligible for unemployment. Just a thought. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you that something works out soon.

    18. Où est la bibliothèque?*

      God, that’s scary. When I worked at a college, we were always told that if something truly dangerous might happen, “call 911, and then campus safety.” I think that should be how you use your courtesy officer, too.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        That’s definitely how I will be handling things from now on. Even when he’s around, the courtesy officer is honestly kind of worthless.

    19. N.J.*

      I have to ask, what part of the country are you in? What state or metro area? That’s something I dont remember seeing but I wonder if any of us can help with job prospects if we are in your area.

      1. Karen from Finance*

        IIRC, she’s just outside the second largest city in a boot shaped state. Or that’s more or less how she’s worded it once.

    21. What She Said*

      Lurker here so I’ve only seen some of these posts. Has anyone suggested you write a book about this place. You could be the next big paranormal or mystery writer. You’d never have to work again with the book sales.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        I should probably try to make friends with someone at Lifetime. I bet I could help them generate at least a season’s worth of programming!

    22. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      rooting for you on the interview. And I get having to hang on…. but cut yourself slack where-ever you can… extra sleep, treat this like the most stressful illness or scenario imaginable, and be kind to yourself and shut down area as you have to, to survive emotionally. Extra vitamins, water, sleep. Journaling, meditation, calm, calm, calm… you will possibly have a form of PTSD and extra support and love from everyone is helpful. Time to let as much love and support in, as you would accept if you were say, in the hospital. Don’t try to be brave or independent outside of work – build your support network and coping, okay??? Hug.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Thank you so much. I’m trying to be really mindful of my health right now—making sure I exercise 3 times a week, making sure I stay hydrated, try to stick to a regular sleep cycle, and I’m trying to stay positive. I’m lucky in that I have a few really good sounding boards/loved ones on call for lunch break phone calls and a boyfriend and dog on tap for on demand hugs.

    23. Plays with Hand Tools*

      I check here every weekend to see what tornado has turned up in your office. I agree with previous posters that a book may be the way to go. Just a hundred or so 3 or 4 page chapters telling these stories you’ve shared here. Wishing you the best of luck in the job-hunting arena.

  17. Karen from Finance*

    Had a job interview that looks promising this week, thanks to Alison’s excellent advice. I interviewed them as much as they interviewed me (I’m uncomfortable in my current position but not absolutely unhappy, so I really want to evaluate my next step).

    Another thing is that the HR person had assured me of benefits of the phone that it turns out aren’t really available “yet”. They tried to convince me that they are working on implementing them asap but I don’t really believe them on that front.

    They sent me to do one of those IP cognitive assessment tests, any advice before I do it?

    1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      IP, is that information processing? Well, since you are content in your present situation, you can push back a little and say that the information you’d like to process includes the benefits they list. And if those aren’t available, they need to process a document that lists and guarantees them.

    2. ragazza*

      Yikes, the benefits thing (and not telling the truth about it) would be a big red flag for me.

    3. Karen from Finance*

      I meant to say PI, sorry. It’s called “Predictive Index Cognitive Assessment”, which they say they do for all new employees. They said it’s 50 questions in 12 minutes, to see my logical and reasoning skills (which is relevant for the job). I don’t think I’m getting away with not taking it. They advised to do it some day where I’m able to really focus and not too tired.

      I was wondering if someone else had maybe had experience with them?

      1. Quinoa*

        My company uses them. I am now surrounded by insanely smart, motivated people. It makes doing my own job so much easier.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Dislike their “maybe benefits”, that’s pretty translucent, I wouldn’t trust them without knowing them, which you of course don’t know them!

      I almost didn’t do our cognitive assessments because ‘bleh’ but it turned out it was just a screening mechanism that was put into place. Which yes, isn’t too great but aside from heavy eye rolling in that aspect, I ended up in one of my best jobs yet. So I would at least keep sniffing around just to keep seeing what they have to offer.

      Just do your best on the test. Don’t try to game the system, assume they care about the results. Worse case, they don’t move forward and then whatever, you don’t want any of those apples anyways, they’ve got worms.

      1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

        I want to second this. Particularly noting, use the test for yourself, to get more comfortable with it. Even if this job doesn’t pan out, at least you will have that experience for next time.

      2. Karen from Finance*

        I like this attitude a lot, I’ll try to keep myself in this mindframe.

        The reason I’m considering this despite the red flag about the benefits (they only lied about the one, but it’s the one that was the most important to me) is that it would be a very material pay raise, and a change back to a more familiar industry.

        It’s like a 50/50, win-win scenario. If it happens, “Ok, good! But be careful anytime you hear HR promise something”. If it doesn’t, on to the next one, ideally one that has all the benefits I’m looking for.

        Thanks!

  18. DC*

    A friend of mine told me recently that people have told her not to use “I” statements in cover letters. A lot of Alison’s examples use them, and I tend to prefer the conversational tone they lend (which suits my industry).

    What do you all think?

    1. NeedSomeEspresso*

      I personally think I makes sense to take ownership of your accomplishments, but your industry might be unique, may I ask what it is

      1. DC*

        Events/Comms! “I” definitely makes sense, she said she’d been given this advice and I just kind of gaped at her.

        1. Marion Ravenwood*

          I’m in events/comms (albeit in the UK), and I’ve definitely never heard this one before. In fact I’d have thought it’d be quite the opposite – surely you want the emphasis to be on what *you* did to contribute to the success of the team/project, rather than a collective thing? (I mean, you could possibly say stuff like, ‘my team successfully delivered Objective X, which I enabled* by doing Y and Z’, but then you’re still talking about the work that you did which meant that objective was achieved.) The only thing I can think of where you might do this is for a people manager role and you’re showing how well you got your team to come together and do the thing, although that still cycles back to what you did to ensure the objective got delivered.

          *not sure enabled is the right word here, but ‘supported’ and ‘contributed to’ both feel too passive.

          1. DC*

            Ah, the people manager piece makes sense! I had no considered that side of it. I’ll have to keep that in mind as I apply for roles like that in the future.

      1. DC*

        That’s what I was struggling to understand in the advice! She indicated that she was using “we” and “As a team,” but that’s not the point of a cover letter.

        1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

          If I read a cover letter like that, it would come across strangely as the royal “we” and be amusing or off-putting depending on context.

        2. BRR*

          I would possibly read that as trying to take credit for other people’s work. We did X. Well how much of X was you?

      2. Friday*

        It’s like trying to write a cover letter without vowels or some such nonsense. My gender BS spidey senses went up when you said your friend’s a woman… we get dinged sometimes for exhibiting the same confidence in the workplace as men.

      3. Nonprofiteer*

        The only sense I can make of this is that you wouldn’t want to *only* talk about yourself, and not thoughtfully include details about about the prospective employer. But that applies to pretty much all communication aside from your therapist/clergy/astrologer.

    3. ArtK*

      Sounds ridiculous to me. What are you supposed to do, use the third person? “DC is well known for successfully managing teapot painting duties while doing the Macarena”?

    4. Où est la bibliothèque?*

      I think that’s really weird advice. But I have heard that you shouldn’t begin every new paragraph with I, just because it becomes tedious.

      1. ArtK*

        Now that I can agree with. It’s something that I need to check when writing cover letters because it’s easy to fall into that trap.

      4. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, I try not to start every sentence with “I,” but basically the statements all need to be about what I’ve done, who I am, what I think!

    6. DC*

      Okay, thank you! I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one who thought that was really really weird. I shall continue as I have been… following Alison’s advice!

    7. Putting the "pro" in "procrastinate"*

      That’s bizarro-world advice. I wonder what that person thinks a cover letter is for.

    8. londonedit*

      Sounds like bizarre advice to me. I agree that I usually try to avoid starting every paragraph with ‘I’, as that just gets boring (and part of my job requires writing skills) but I’m not sure how you’d write a cover letter without using ‘I’!

    9. OtterB*

      Agree you shouldn’t be all “I” statements, but the whole point is to give a clear picture of yourself. I’d avoid focusing too much on what *you* want and will get out of the position and focus on why you would be a good fit and a benefit to the employer.

      2. ragazza*

        Maybe it could be modeled after Jaqen H’ghar’s communication style in Game of Thrones: “A woman has increased teapot sales by 45 percent. A woman has excellent PowerPoint skills.”

      4. PB*

        I was actually on a search committee once where my fellow committee members came down on a candidate for using “I” in her cover letter! The chair even told a story about when she was in grad school and they had a class assignment to write a cover letter without using the word “I,” which I thought was banana-crackers. What are you supposed to do? Talk about yourself in the third person? I should note that this candidate was ultimately rejected for other reasons, but I couldn’t believe it even came up.

    11. pleaset*

      Definitely be conversational and definitely use I statements – the cover letter is about you, right?

      But mix it up and don’t have every sentence start with “I”

    12. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      And always where a white shirt. And never ask about salary.
      There are no absolutes in interviewing. There is no magic key.
      There’s no secret that only a few people know and are keeping from the rest of us.
      Maybe just tell your friend, that any advice she gets that makes any step of the interviewing process more difficult, is probably not going to help you.

    13. Lazy Susan*

      I think it would be funny if they instead referred to themselves in the 3rd person.

      “Tiffany is well schooled in the Microsoft Office Suite and has experience using database programs. With over 36 credit hours, Tiffany is on her way to receiving an AS in computer science. Tiffany is an enthusiastic team player and last year Tiffany was recognized by management for her team contributions to the Excelsior initiative.”

    14. Half-Caf Latte*

      chiming in to agree this is bonkers.

      *I* have a coworker who believes feedback should NEVER include the word “you.” This is, far as I can tell, a gross misapplication of the recommendation to use “I statements.” Unfortunately, we’re in staff training and development, so she teaches this to new supervisors monthly.

    15. Grandma Mazur*

      I wonder whether this wasn’t a garbled version of the advice I’ve heard before not to use “I” in any bullet points on the resume/CV? As in, just start with the verb (“completed”, “accomplished”, etc). That’s the only thing that I can think of that sounds remotely plausible…

  19. NeedSomeEspresso*

    TLDR: Not sure if this phone interview was rude/should I go to the in person interview

    So this morning I had a phone interview. They were extremely pushy about why I was leaving after only 15 months. I initially politely said lack of advancement (which is true, but the story is much more complicated – lots of politics, PTO and bonuses being slashed, restructured culture). I do not ever want to bash a previous job and kept trying to restate my issues as politely as possible when they asked in 3 different ways why I left, including “I don’t understand why you’re leaving.”

    I’m young, so maybe I don’t know any better, but this left a bad taste in my mouth. I assumed they didn’t like me – but they emailed me asking to come for an in person interview. Am I just being sensitive or is this a red flag? Should I go?

    1. Emily*

      I don’t think it’s a huge red flag. It’s a little weird, but the person doing the initial phone interview probably wouldn’t be your manager, anyway. In terms of not wanting to bash your employer, that’s good, but you can say something like “we’ve been losing a lot of people recently; they’ve been cutting PTO and bonuses.” No one should think poorly of you for that, you’re just citing an objective thing that’s happening and that would make many people job search. You can also say “actually, it’s a fairly high-turnover position – leaving after a year is normal” or something like that if it’s true.

    2. IL JimP*

      A lot of times phone interviewers aren’t managers at companies, I would put it in the back of my mind and see if there are any other red flags from the in person interview with the actual hiring manager before making a decision.

      1. NW Mossy*

        Or even employees of the company at all! My organization uses contractors for recruiting/initial phone screens, and there’s a lot of turnover so it’s pretty rare even as the hiring manager to have the same person all the way through filling an open req.

    3. Rhiiiiiiannnnnnnon*

      When I got my role at my current organization, the person who did my initial phone interview was just an HR assistant who had bunch of boxes to check and responses to write down. They came across as a little condescending and bored, so I was initially turned off. I decided to do the in-person interview anyway, and thank goodness I did, because my current manager is all around awesome. I’ve never even met the person who did my phone interview.

      Maybe the person on the phone just had a box to fill out too…and maybe they’d been recently grilled for not getting specific answers or something. I don’t know, just my two cents! But if you’re going to be working directly with them, and you know that, then maybe their attitude is something to consider. Tho I’d still meet face to face to suss it out. Don’t let one bad apple ruin the bushel.

      1. NeedSomeEspresso*

        Thanks guys. I will go ahead and do the in-person. I do like a lot about the position, so doesn’t hurt to give them the chance. It was definitely an HR person, not my manager, which I know makes all the difference. I’m skeptical, but can’t hurt

        1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

          Reading comments, I am thinking more about the check box idea and your answers didn’t fit easily into the form the interviewer had and that’s the reason for rephrasing. S/he didn’t want to put words in your mouth or admit “hey, we have a form, which one of these most fits your situation (because you and your life are in no way unique so we put everyone in a box)?

    4. Sleepytime Tea*

      Some people have TERRIBLE interview skills and that isn’t necessarily a reflection of the company.

      I was asked for my greatest weakness once, and then before I could really answer I got interrupted and the interviewer said “don’t give me the bullsh*t answers for interviews, give me the real stuff.” Yeah, it was weird. Don’t regret taking the job here though. It’s darn near perfect for where I am in my career. That interviewer was not the manager who I would be reporting to though, which might have changed things a tad, I have to admit!

    5. Jess*

      If it was with the person who would be your manager, I’d think of it as a red flag and ask yourself if you want to work for someone who interacts with you like that.

      If it was HR or someone else doing an initial screening, I’d think of it as a yellow flag and go to the interview with open mind and open eyes. What you’re looking for is whether this is a sign of the overall culture of the organization, a sign of the org/dept/mgr being burned previously by people who left quickly and trying to weed that out proactively, or just one individual who’s not great at interviewing people.

    6. Namast'ay in Bed*

      You can absolutely say that your benefits are being cut and the office being restructured so you’re looking for something more steady/layoffs seem imminent, that’s not bashing at all. TBH saying you want to leave due to lack of advancement after only 15 months, especially early in your career, comes across a little naive as an answer.

      The pushiness and the “I don’t understand why you’re leaving” may not be a ringing endorsement, but it’s not a giant red flag if that’s the only issue you have, especially depending on who the person was you spoke with (recruiter, hiring manager, or person who you’d work closely with, etc). I don’t think it could hurt to go to the in-person interview to get more information.

      But I’d honestly recommend adjusting your “why are you leaving” answer.

      1. NeedSomeEspresso*

        Thank you, I was not sure what is appropriate to say so I just assumed that was a default response. So saying there is restructuring and I’m looking for more stability would be safe to say?

        1. Namast'ay in Bed*

          Absolutely! Those are very practical reasons for why you might not want to stick around. As long as your reasons are objective (“the organization has been in a state of flux for a while and I’m looking for something more stable”) rather than opinionated and personal (“my boss is a yes-man who kowtows to the idiot owner’s idiot kid who runs this place like their personal piggy bank”), you’re fine. It also helps to then transition your reasons for leaving into why you’re interested in the job you’re applying for.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          I would say it.
          I’d also mention it if you’d seen a position eliminated that you’d thought to apply to after a couple of years at that company. (I’ve seen it happen — a company outsourced the job that a friend had wanted to move into …so she searched externally.)

      2. lulu*

        All of this. Don’t badmouth your employer is often taken literally, but you can make a general statement about work conditions changing and benefits being slashed to explain why the job is no longer what it was when you took it 15 months ago. The point about wanting more advancement so early being a potential redflag is also good. Keep the tone and the language neutral, but you can definitely share more about why you are actually leaving.

        1. Jadelyn*

          “Don’t badmouth your employer” means more like “don’t go on a 5-minute rant about how crappy your boss was and you hate the work and wish the place would burn down so you don’t have to go to work tomorrow”, not “don’t admit there are real issues.”

          Very early on in my recruiting career I remember doing a phone screening for a woman who was leaving her job, and when I asked why, she calmly explained that there had been some big changes in management and the culture of the place had changed a lot, and she no longer felt like it was a good environment for her. Her tone was quiet and even, almost sorrowful, and I could tell she wasn’t happy to have to leave. And far from turning me off her, it actually helped, because it demonstrated that her job search was carefully considered and that she was looking for somewhere that would be a good fit for her long-term.

          So it’s okay to admit that things aren’t perfect at your current job and that’s why you want to leave – the key is to be careful about tone, stay very matter-of-fact and calm about it, don’t get emotional.

        2. The New Wanderer*

          Right – you can talk about the objectively bad things (understaffing, cuts to benefits, no advancement) and they are perfectly valid reasons that most people will immediately understand. Avoid the subjective negative stuff (my boss is a jerk, coworkers gossip too much).

          It is odd that the interviewer pushed several times, but sounds plausible that it was about checking a box and not that your answer wasn’t good enough.

        3. Syfygeek*

          When I was leaving my position after 9 years, I was very careful not to be derogatory about my company, and especially my boss. After the formal interview, I was taken on a tour of the campus and ran into someone who had worked where I did before coming to the college. First words out of her mouth were “Are you finally leaving that hellhole and ditching the psychopath running it?”

          After being hired, over time, my supervisor got the full story and was impressed at how circumspect I was.

    7. fposte*

      I wouldn’t hinge my decision about going for an interview on the phone interviewer’s manner. However, I would be prepared for the possibility that they may be looking for something deeper on an early departure (I think the restructuring seems pretty objective to offer). It would also be okay to open up the discussion a little–you can say “I still work there, and I’m not comfortable giving out too much industrially significant information.” If you’ve had longer-term jobs before that one, you can point to those to say “It sounds like Your Company, Inc. places high value on a longer tenure, and I usually have longer tenure at jobs and would expect to for you.”

    8. RandomU...*

      Echoing what others have said, at my company the first person to speak to you would be our recruiters who are doing an initial phone screen.

      Their job is to get a little of background on you to fill in some of the information that may not be on your resume. So them focusing on the basics like why you are leaving, gaps, and other surface things is normal. They pass their notes off to the hiring manager who will use that with your resume to determine if they want you to proceed in the process.

      Your description sounds like they were a little overzealous in their questioning, but they are likely not the hiring manager or anyone you will speak to outside of the hiring process.

    9. Bostonian*

      Yeah, they do seem oddly fixated on that one thing. I don’t think 15 months seems that short, and it seems like a realistic amount of time to be able to recognize that you own’t get any growth opportunities. I don’t think you have anything to lose by going to the interview and seeing if there are other concerns you pick up on.

      I can provide some encouragement here: For my current job, the phone screen with HR and then the hiring manager seemed overly concerned about whether or not I was really interested in the position. It really threw me off. It’s a position that combines X and Y, which I have degrees in both. Also, they emphasized that sometimes this position required a lot of Z, which they considered less desirable, and I gave examples of having worked with Z and enjoying it. So I wasn’t sure why my answers didn’t satisfy them. It was rough! Here’s the good news: I got to the in-person interview, and it never came up again!

      So maybe they were satisfied with your answers the first three times they asked and it won’t come up again. But I would be ready to address it if they do again, including being OK with saying something like, “This seems to be a big concern for you, can you explain why?” In my case, it turns out that they had a long history of not being able to fill this position and some horror stories (so I heard after I was hired) of candidates that only applied to get their foot in the door.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        It can depend on the field too. In my field, a year is very short, two years is short, after that you’re probably okay. It’s really hard bc I don’t love my current job and I probably can’t stay two years, so I’m bracing for the difficulty I’m going to have. There are some jobs where this wouldn’t be the case and anything over a year is totally fine.

    10. PB*

      Am I just being sensitive or is this a red flag?

      Neither, I think. I can absolutely see why this rubbed you the wrong way. It reminds me of an interview when I was younger when an HR rep asked me about why I was job searching after only 6 months in a job. I explained that it was a temporary position and only funded for 9 months. A pretty good reason, right? Apparently not to her. She then badgered me about my “job-hopping” (they were internships), and flat out asked me if I was difficult to work with or had anger issues (I do not; I get along very well with my coworkers).

      But everyone else there was wonderful, and I wouldn’t have been working with this person all that closely. I didn’t end up getting the job, but because they went with someone with more experience, and I received a very nice personalized rejection from the hiring manager.

      Bottom line, you’re not being too sensitive, but, like others have said, it isn’t necessarily a red flag. I agree with others who said go to the interview, and let that contribute to your overall impression of the employer.

  20. Murphy*

    More of a comment, but I got invited to help review applications/interview for a position my boss is hiring for. This is the first time I’ve ever reviewed applications and wow. Firstly, I completely understand Alison’s cover letter advice now. I understood it before, but after reading 40+ cover letters and finding them all pretty generic and uninspiring, I truly get it. Notable highlights: Someone submitted a cover letter for the completely wrong job. Someone else submitted an eight page resume (that was in no way justified).

      1. Murphy*

        It looks like they’ve had one position and they seemingly described every single job duty in excruciating detail. Instead of “completed TPS reports” it would be “sent emails to department heads asking for TPS data, followed up with DH’s that didn’t respond in a timely manner, checked TPS data for accuracy, entered data into template” etc.

        1. PB*

          Eight pages on one job is wild. I’ve seen a 14 page resume before (seriously!), but at least this was someone with lots of experience and apparently no self-editing skills.

      3. ArtK*

        Years ago, I got a 9 page resume. Honestly, I don’t recall everything that was in it. It headed for the “nope” pile with the barest cursory look. My suspicion is that it was someone who was used to academic CVs* which can get very long.

        *Not sure why, but I was just struck by the absurdity of using an English plural of an initialism of a Latin phrase, which needs a totally different form of plural.

        1. Owler*

          Someone told me once that the abbreviation becomes the English “word”, which is why it is given an English plural. Maybe less absurd to think of it that way?

      4. The New Wanderer*

        The 13 page one I saw (for someone who got HIRED using it in a US, non-academic environment) was at least 80% filler. It was kind of in (US) CV format but would have been laughed at by academic hiring committees. It included all the things this person had ever written, had duplicate listings of the same papers under several categories, and included internal documents (white papers and memos) as publications. This person maybe has 10 legit peer reviewed publications.

      5. Algae*

        I had an 8-page resume once. It was filled with every job they ever had, a paragraph explaining job duties, AND a reason why they left (my favorite: they didn’t like the commute).

    2. voluptuousfire*

      Welcome to the world of reviewing resumes! :) I once had a gentleman submit a 20 page resume (no exaggeration) for a role I was helping recruit for. He was an older gentleman who had been in the military his entire career, so he included everr-y-thang he ever did in his career. This included classes from high school 40+ years before. He was very thorough, I will say that!

    3. Environmental Compliance*

      Hubs recently asked me to help him look over a friend/coworker’s resume that had gotten sent to him by Friendo because their job hunt wasn’t going well.

      It was quite literally 1 paragraph. For a person with 5-10 years experience, partially in management. And most of the paragraph was about their degree. Listed maybe 2 job duties.

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        I tried to help my brother in law once with his CV. His original version was basically two paragraphs with some vague stuff about his computer skills. He has 15 years of experience in management in his field! I think he just never had to write a new one so had no clue how.

        My mother in law ended up helping him instead.

        1. Environmental Compliance*

          This person’s never (apparently) had to write one either. Thankfully he was receptive to feedback!

    4. Peggy Olson's blues*

      So many terrible CVs! I’ve done quite a bit of hiring, and am constantly astounded by how bad some of the applications can be. Formulaic isn’t great, but I’ve also seen instances of people trying to stand out and failing badly (ie photos of them doing their hobbies, timelines, infographics). Applicants shouldn’t make people work so hard to figure out their work experience/skills. I recently saw a 10 page resume for someone who has only had two jobs!

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Yessssssssssss, welcome to our application sorting nightmare *steeps fingers*

      I’ve had multiple page resumes of people who listed every temp placement job they ever had in a 20 year job history. Lots of temp placements. It turns my stomach each time.

      One person once legit copy/pasted the same job description/duties into each of their jobs at each of the major cell phone companies. I mean I get it, they did the same thing each time but it was like “Help customers with their phones. Provide superb customer service.” 5 times over.

      1. Murphy*

        I started by looking at the cover letters, so I haven’t looked at all the resumes yet…the first one I opened was he 8 pager, so I can’t even imagine what other horrors await.

    6. MissGirl*

      I’ve been reviewing resumes for the first time this week too. My longest was only two pages but the odd thing was that he had put zero descriptions under any of his jobs. Only bullet points with the position then nothing. His length came from lots of weird formatting. (FYI, make your resume a PDF. Word does wonky things online)

      And apparently cover letters are dead in my field because he’s the only who sent one. I wanted so much to reach out to him to tell him how to fix his resume. Oh well.

      1. Murphy*

        Our system requires cover letters, which I think is good in theory, but honestly I didn’t learn a whole lot about the candidates by reading them. And most of them seemed like they could be sent to any EA job with little to no changes.

    7. Margali*

      I once had someone apply to our company through our electronic system, but instead of uploading their resume and cover letter, they accidentally uploaded *their offer letter from another company*!

      1. Lucy*

        AAAAAAAARGH!!

        I cringed myself inside out reading that. It’s hideous whether accidental or deliberate.

    8. Ange*

      The one and only time I had to review applications, my favourite was the one that said that while working at posh department store they had sold 200 video cassettes to a Russian diplomat using only their charisma and the power of mime.

      I have always wondered if the diplomat even wanted video cassettes….

      1. MissGirl*

        Power of mime or the power of the mind? Because those are completely different things. ;).

    9. Pam*

      For hiring in my field, academic advising- I make a spreadsheet. I do a quick review of all packets, listing education, have they worked at my campus, have they worked in our public university system, and a sentence or two commenting on their experience.

      I can then go back for a more in-depth review on the ones meeting my criteria.

    10. Ms.Vader*

      Haha I have been recently applying and I applied at one company for multiple positions and each time I would attach a separate cover letter that listed the position and what specifically I could bring to that role. It wasn’t till the third that I realized that every time I applied it updated all previous applications with my new resume and cover letter! I didn’t realize it was one centralized profile! So 2/3 have the wrong job info! Won’t be hearing from that one haha.

  21. Michelle*

    We have an event tonight. It’s been sold out for 2 weeks. I’ve answered 22 calls from people wanting “just one more ticket” or my friends from out of town are here, can we just show up? No people. We are SOLD OUT. We are NOT selling tickets at the doors and if you show up without a ticket, you will be turned away.

    Why do people wait until 8 hours before an event to try to buy a ticket when we have clearly and repeatedly on multiple social platforms, website and telephone that it’s sold out? SO frustrating. And yet, there will be people who just show up. We are putting an A frame sign by the walkway saying “Event is SOLD OUT. No tickets will be sold at the door” and people will ignore it and try it anyway. ERRRR

    1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

      Oh, live events, I know this brand of entitlement well… the worst are the ones who show up explaining that ~obviously~ even though it’s sold out there will be people who won’t show, and of ~course~ you should give them the spare tickets. Or they’re even willing to buy them, because, gosh, they’re just that reasonable.

      These are people who took the saying “the squeaky wheel gets the grease” to heart, and it’s probably worked for them once or twice, so they’re going to try for the rest of time.

      1. Not My Money*

        It’s like a dog who finds a scrap of food on a walk who insists on walking that way and checking for the rest of its life.

      2. Le Sigh*

        Or my other favorite: “I bought a ticket! I bought it at 11:30 last night for this 9am breakfast event. What do you MEAN you don’t have a professionally printed name tag for me?!? Why weren’t you up all night making name tags in case I bought a ticket? You mean I have to make a last-minute name tag? What kind of place is this?”

    2. DC*

      UGH YES.

      Similarly awful: Being sold out, and continually getting emails from your CEO saying “Oh course we can get you a ticket Fergus! DC will handle it!”

      1. Anon Admin*

        OH GOD YES. I got cc’d on an email like this for an event a few months ago. I replied back to my boss “Where, exactly, would you like me to seat them? We saved 10 buffer seats and you have already given them away. The only option left is to put a stool in the kitchen and let them eat there.” He ended up giving up his seat and his wife’s seat and they ended up standing up to eat.

        We made an agreement the Monday after that he got X of the extra seats and that was it. He has used all of them for this event and to his credit, has said no to a few people.

        2. MsM*

          I like your boss. Mine kept deciding we’d just add another table. Which then meant figuring out who wouldn’t be mortally offended by being stuck in the back (spoiler alert: no one), and changing all the badge numbers, and…aaaagh!

    3. londonedit*

      Oh, yeah. Not work, but my running club puts on various events throughout the year, like a Christmas party and summer awards night, and tickets are always on sale for weeks beforehand. The social secretary sends umpteen reminder emails, posts on Facebook, and updates the club website with all the information about the event and the closing date for ticket sales. Yet without fail there will be people who respond to the ‘Ticket sales have closed!’ update with ‘Oh noooooooooooo I really really really neeeeeeeed a ticket!!!! Can I buy one? I’m so sorry I missed the deadline!!!’ Drives me mad. Everyone else can get themselves organised.

    4. Amy Farrah Fowler*

      This is absolutely not a generational comment, but it’s because EVERYONE thinks that they are the exception/special snowflake and that if they just ask the right way or right number of times that of course they will be accommodated.

      I experience this on a weekly basis with people who very obviously do not fully read the job description when applying, and then tell me on phone interviews that the are incapable of important portions of the job, but that we should make an exception for them because they’re excellent at X, they just can’t do Y. Sorry. The job is to do X and Y and there isn’t a way to separate it into different roles. Everyone thinks they are the exception.

    5. catwoman2965*

      Because they’re speshul and the rules don’t apply to them! And they think, and assume (incorrectly) that IF they show up, well, somehow a ticket for them will just magically appear out of thin air! And these are the same ones who will then get indigent and pissy that they can’t be accommodated.

      Repeat after me “lack of planning on your part DOES NOT constitute an emergency on mine”

      1. Anon Admin*

        I’ll be getting a lot of those indigent and pissy comments tonight!

        Since we had an issue with an unruly man with no ticket a few months ago, I requested the 2 tallest and most muscled security guards on staff to work the door with us. I can trust them to have our backs and escort people with temper tantrums out. One is a retired police officer and the other is retired firefighter!

      2. Aunt Vixen*

        I mean – you’re not wrong, but they can also reason that they certainly won’t get in if they don’t go and ask for special accommodation, so what’s the harm? (The harm is that it is frustrating and time consuming for the person telling them no. But that’s not on their radar.)

    6. Psyche*

      Honestly I think it is because many places say that it is sold out, but still let in other people anyway. It trains people to think that “sold out” doesn’t actually mean “sold out.” They assume that there is a buffer that you can dip into for them. It’s just like people not believing deadlines are real because so many people make fake deadlines to give themselves a buffer.

      1. Jerry Vandesic*

        I have picked up last minute tickets to many sold out events (mostly concerts and plays). There are often late cancellations, and I check at the to see what might have opened up. These cancellations are usually just before the event, so I have found that it’s actually better to wait until the last minute. That being said, I usually check online rather than trying to call in a favor, and am not surprised when a sold out event suddenly has a few tickets available.

        1. Qosanchia*

          I think the key difference is, rather than begging for some kind of special treatment, you go in checking specifically for cancellations. That takes it from asking for a favor to checking in on a normal process, and I think it depersonalizes it enough that it’s not as big a deal.
          I’m not an event organizer, so I could be way off base here.

    7. roisin54*

      Semi-related: we have a lot of private events here that are nevertheless posted on the public calendar, so of course we get people wanting to go to them. The worst was when there was a private screening and reception for a TV movie in which an Oscar winning director and an Oscar winning actor were involved. We got soooo many phone calls and emails from people wanting tickets to the event, despite the fact that we advertised very heavily that it was a private event. I would tell people that if they were not invited, then they couldn’t go. Which only led the bolder ones to ask how they could get invited. That was a fun week.

      1. Anon Admin*

        I totally get that. We also rent the facility for private events and we’ve had a few of those as well. Luckily, they don’t get put on the public calendar, usually it’s word-of-mouth issue.

        Caller: My sister is going to this super fun event at your facility and I want to go, too! How much to get in?
        Me: So sorry, that’s a private, invite-only event. You must be invited by the person who rented the space.
        Caller: If I just show up with my sister can I come in?
        Me: Ma’am it’s a private event and we have no control over the guest list. In my opinion, I would not show up to something that is invite-only and I had not received an invitation.
        Caller: But they won’t even notice!
        Me: Ma’am I’m not sure what you want me to say. All I can do is repeat what I’ve told you- private, invite only event. I think there will be a person with a list at the front.
        Caller: swear words I’m never coming there ever again!!
        Me: Thanks, have a nice day!

    8. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I once had a telephone number very close to that of the local amphitheater. Every time there was a big concert, people would call asking about tickets. It wasn’t even the right phone number…and good grief people NO! There will be no Metallica tickets available 5 hours before the concert!
      I soon gave up and changed my number.

  22. Wing Leader*

    I don’t have a question, but I did want to share something from this past week.

    A few days ago, I had a job interview. For years, I have struggled with low self-esteem, no confidence, social anxiety, and depression. However, self-help has been doing wonders for me in the past few months. I still struggle, but I’m much better than before.

    The old me would have walked into the interview, tried to fake my way through it and pretend to be someone else, and would have answered their questions however I thought they wanted me to, whether it was true. Instead, this time, I decided I was going to just be myself and answer everything honestly. If they liked me, great, and if not, it didn’t mean I was worthless or unlikable (like I would have previously though).

    So that’s what I did, and the interview went well. I sat in an interview with two men, one just under the CEO and the other the Director of Sales, and they both fired question after question at me. I could tell they were trying to intimidate me, since the job I’m applying for takes a pretty thick skin (often dealing with angry people). But I stayed cooled and honestly answered everything they asked, whether it was what I thought they wanted to hear or not. After it was over, they both reacted positively to me. The Director of Sales told me that he liked me and he thought I would be a great fit. He also told me that I had answered one of the questions perfectly.

    I don’t know what’s going to happen next because they still have other candidates to interview, but I couldn’t be happier with how it turned out. I couldn’t believe they liked me, the real me. So, I learned that you don’t have to pretend to be someone you’re not just to be accepted in the world. You just have to be yourself and, if someone doesn’t like you, that’s their problem, not yours.

    7. Fortitude Jones*

      That’s awesome! Good for you. That’s pretty much how I go into interviews these days – if they like me, cool. If not, I’ve still got a pretty good job, so I’m not bothered and onto the next!

    11. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      This is fantastic, thank you for sharing with us. I have also had to fight the instinct to turtle and not be myself because I didn’t think I was “good” enough for just about anyone. Thankfully self-help and personal positivity has pushed me through the weeds on that.

      I have taught myself that it’s okay that some people don’t like you or you don’t “fit” into every office because how boring would that be? Also the most wonderful people have critics and some people simply “hate” everyone, that’s on them not us.

    12. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      awesome encouragement. Promise to come back and give updates on other interviews, too? It is hard to do enough self-help (when a beginner like me) to get past the fear of being yourself. This is so helpful!

    13. Finally Back In A 'Proper Job'*

      This is so incredible – you should be so proud of yourself!

      One thing to perhaps consider before you commit to the role: If it is one where thick skin is required, how will you cope on your ‘down’ days?

      Having suffered from depression my whole adult life, yet still held high stress jobs, I am aware that on my good days, I can handle anything that comes, but on a down day it is much harder (of course). Good to have a coping strategy for the down days when your skin might not be quite as thick.

  23. ArtK*

    Job search update: I now have a phone interview scheduled and I know who the hiring manager is. I’ve been able to look them up on LinkedIn and I’ve reached out to a friend who works in a nearby department who may be able to give me some info.

  24. Dragoning*

    My manager has been driving us all crazy this entire week. A lot of process decisions being made by him, who doesn’t actually understand the process and never has, and refusal to listen to any protests lodged on our part. Not even sure what his logic is at this point. We’ve pretty much dug into the trenches of “Well if you want us to do you, you have to put it in the procedure because Audits.”

    Ugh.

    Also there’s been tons of of OT this week, will be plenty more later this month and into next.

    And on top of this, one of the other managers in the department (not mine, but we have no other management around this week except all the way up to the VP, which…no) made an incredibly uncomfortable sexual comment to me and I’m trying to decide if I need to/should go to HR about it and how to handle it.

    But in a few hours I get to go home and not deal with it.

      1. Dragoning*

        I looked at my phone to check the time, saw a bunch of notifications on it and said, “Why do I have so many notifications; what do you people want from me?” and his response was “They just…want you.”

        I’m an AFAB person in their mid-twenties, he’s at least twenty years older than me, and when I finally awkwardly said, “Well, I hope not, that would be awkward,” he told me he was wondering what my reaction would be.

        Thanks, buddy.

        I know it could be a lot worse, but also, gross.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Hopefully there will not be a next time but you could say something like:

          “Let’s not go there.”
          or
          “That’s not cool.”

          1. Dragoning*

            Well, it’s actually not the first time he said something creepy to me, and at least one of the time he did, he even made a joke about how HR would have a problem with it.

            But none of it’s ever super explicit or overt, and it’s not super frequent, so IDK.

            1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

              Trust your instincts. He’s a jerk who says things that make you uncomfortable for the sake of seeing if you get uncomfortable. Well, you got uncomfortable. That is when you speak up.
              At least meet with HR and explain you have a person in a position above you who makes rude comments for the purpose of seeing you react. “I don’t think he’s sexually harassing me, I think he is systematically I guess, abusing/mocking/bullying/undermining me with sexually charged statements.”
              Because that’s what he’s doing. Worst case results: You are already questioning your judgement, you are going to end up avoiding him, so you aren’t going to go after special projects with him. And you become stuck because, “well, I never said anything before…”
              Stay strong.

              1. Jules the 3rd*

                He’s pushing boundaries to see what you’ll let him get away with. It’s a common first step in abuse / harassment. He SUCKS.

                1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

                  I’m going to kick up my response to this a notch and pointedly say, it is a grooming technique to make you submit to his abuse.

            2. Not So NewReader*

              Tell him he needs to speak in an manner that has NO ambiguity. (Like many of the men and women out there already do, just sayin’ it can be done. It’s not difficult.) It’s called being professional.

              It may not be frequent but that does not mean he is less of a bore.

            3. Jules the 3rd*

              Ugh – the borderline creepers are awful.

              No individual comment is going to be over the line, but if you document every single one, you may get enough to get a response from HR. Demonstrating a pattern can help. But most likely, he knows the line he can get away with and will stay on the safe side.

              Other options for direct action:
              Become boring. He’s getting off on making you uncomfortable, so you stop showing your discomfort. He makes a comment, you ignore it. No pause / questioning face, no question back. Limit talking around him, no rhetorical openings. Or 1 glance as if he’s a stupid child who is NOT amusing you and moving on. (SUCKS SO MUCH, this is so stressful for you, especially since he may escalate briefly to get a response),

              Become too much hassle:
              Barrage of uncomfortable return questions, returning Awkward to Sender: “What did you mean by that? Why do you think it’s ok to make your female employees uncomfortable? Don’t you worry that pushing boundaries with female employees will have professional repercussions? ” Emphasize that you see what he’s doing, and if you see it, other people will too, and they won’t be amused by it. (also SUCKS SO MUCH with potential career impact)

              Enlist a protector
              Talk over with a male manager, his equal or senior, or a female manager who is his senior in an earnest conversation and request for advice: “Slimer makes these comments that could be ambiguous, but then he follows up to see if he’s made me uncomfortable, in a way that makes it clear that he *wants* me to be uncomfortable. Here’s an example. Is it just me, or does he do this to other women? Of course our company would never want to have an environment that is uncomfortable for female employees, so I though you might want to know how he’s pushing boundaries. Any advice?” (Potential for this to be ineffective or even go wrong, with possible retaliation / labeling as ‘too sensitive’. I really wish that were not true, but well, sexism is not just limited to Slimer.)

        2. Bostonian*

          Ugh. gross. I would say report it if you think you might regret not reporting it later. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes they don’t deserve that.

          I sometimes still think about how I wish I had reported a former boss who said a couple inappropriate sexual things (both regarding the size of my behind).

    2. mrs__peel*

      I would strongly suggest documenting each incident, just in case (and keeping copies in a safe place). You don’t have to decide immediately if you’re going to go to HR, but having that information at hand will give you more options if you eventually decide to go that route.

  25. Manders*

    The person who was hired at my last job after I left just applied for a position at my company! I was a little nervous to hear he was interviewing because my former boss had a habit of blaming problems on whichever employee left most recently. The new guy lasted almost exactly as long as I did, and it sounds like he had exactly the same problems with lack of direction.

    I don’t know if he’ll be my future coworker, since I’m not a part of the hiring process for this role. But it’s nice to hear that the parts of my experience that soured me on that job weren’t my fault.

    Has anyone else ever been in this situation? Was it awkward, or was it convenient to work with someone who you know had such a similar background?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      It’s usually been fine. Crack a few jokes about how foolish the old boss was and life goes on. It’s usually been a bit of a bonding thing as we’d end up empathizing with each other.

  26. brought to you by the letter f*

    I know you’re not supposed to get excited about jobs you apply for, but I’m desperate to get out of my current position (which is borderline abusive — I’ve been called stupid three times today and it’s not even noon here) and I really thought my last interview went incredibly well.

    They called *and* e-mailed to let me know they didn’t want me, which has me crying in my office, because as irrational as it is it just feels like they wanted me to know how much.

    I’m beginning to feel like I’ll never get out of here. I can’t leave without something lined up and I don’t have a support system. I can’t even take days off to go to an actual doctor, let alone to therapy to try to get through however long it takes me to find something else. I don’t know what to do anymore.

    1. T. Librarian*

      I am really sorry that you’re in a crappy position. I hope you find something new really soon. I mean, they’re calling you stupid? At all, let along multiple times in a morning? That is NOT healthy. And your crying response to the call and email is completely understandable. Sending virtual hugs.

    2. Wing Leader*

      So sorry! Please don’t give up though.

      You didn’t get this job simply because it isn’t the right one for you. That means there is a great job out there that is perfect for you. You just have to go find it! So keep applying. Attend some networking events. Talk to anyone you can. Keep sifting through any jobs that aren’t yours so you can find the one that is.

      Also, I don’t know if you do admin, phone work, data entry, or anything like that. But a lot of business people, especially new ones, need assistants.

      Also, go to http://www.bni.com and look for a local chapter. You will meet a lot of professionals if you attend their meetings, and I bet someone will know if someone in their industry is hiring. Let them know that you’re job searching when you’re introducing yourself, and word will spread very quickly.

      1. brought to you by the letter f*

        Sorry, I guess I should clarify: I actually work in higher education. I have a background in advising/student affairs but currently work for an academic department as a coordinator. I’m not looking to leave the field … just this department, which is full of faculty members who think my degrees are worthless and that I am an idiot.

        1. MissGirl*

          Can you consider broadening your field choice when applying? With academia being what it is, it may be difficult to land a new position and there are a lot of badly managed departments. Weigh your desire with getting out of this job versus the viability of finding a new job in a short amount of time.

          Remember, if you go on an interview and you realize the job isn’t right for you and you want to stay in academia, you can always reject it. But you might also be pleasantly surprised by what else is out there.

          1. brought to you by the letter f*

            I have a master’s degree in higher ed, and I like student affairs, so I’d like to stay here. There just wasn’t a straight SA position available when I graduated, and I needed a job. So I took this one, because any job is better than no job. I really don’t have it in me to start all over again.

        3. Prof_Murph*

          As an academic, I’m very disturbed that you are being treated this way by faculty and others in your department. Just a reality check: this is not okay and there is definitely something dysfunctional happening. I’m sure you are cautious, but if you get the opportunity to express this to someone outside your department who has some oversight (e.g., associate dean, dean, etc.), I encourage you to do so – they probably already know but should be alerted to these types of situations. You will not be in this position forever and just keep your eye on the prize as you search for a new position.

    3. Anon for this*

      You should look into FMLA and short term disability laws in your area. I took a month off work and was then approved for 4 hours off each week so I could go to therapy. I eventually left that job without anything lined up (which was a risk but my mental health needed it) and have been in a great job since! It’s really important to take care of yourself. Good luck.

      1. brought to you by the letter f*

        Unfortunately, to my understanding short-term disability does not cover mental health where I am, and I cannot afford unpaid leave. Thank you, though.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Oh man, this really sucks. I am so sorry.

      Just a couple of freebie activities that I try to tap:
      Crying. Crying is actually good for the health of our brains. It starts a chemical reaction in the brain that helps the brain to stay healthy. A person can feel like they won’t be able to stop, but eventually the tears do stop. And the next day can be different, I dunno, a new small feeling of strength that wasn’t there yesterday?

      Walking. Even short walks, with or with out a friend can help us sort our thoughts and kind of pull a few useful thoughts together. This does not have to be a long walk, 15 minutes or so is fine. It’s more important to keep doing it as much as possible.

      FWIW, that was reeeally rude that they contacted you three times. Really rude.

    5. Canadian Natasha*

      Aww, that sucks! It seems like you are aware that it’s probably jerk/stress brain thinking but I’ve found it helps a lot to deliberately reframe your thoughts. I’ll even tell myself aloud “Hey, that’s not realistic or helpful!” and try to think of alternate explanations. Like, the double communication was because “these interviewers are trying (clumsily) to be considerate and not just ghost the people they don’t select for the job”*. After all, we hear so often about how frustrating it is to interview and then get nothing but silence, right?

      I know when you are in a bad situation and your mental and emotional reserves are running on empty it makes it so much easier to see things from the most depressing interpretation (been there done that!). Wishing you a speedy job search and a supportive and respectful new environment asap!

      *And even if they were that big of jerks that they wanted to make sure unsuccessful candidates knew they were Totally Rejected then really you made a narrow escape from getting into just as bad a new job as the old one seems to be!

    6. voluptuousfire*

      Why not look at online therapy like Talk Space and Better Health? Hopefully you can find a counselor or therapist who does evening or weekend sessions. This way you can see someone on your own time and get your confidence back!

    7. PBJnocrusts*

      Right there with you letter f. Mental health = employers GNF. At least you have a job atm (which doesn’t sound like a great environment, I’m so sorry to hear). Same thing happened to me last week. I Was so hopeful and i didn’t get the job I interviewed for :( wishing you luck !

  27. Mimmy*

    Please (gently!) tell me I’m just being paranoid with this….

    I have been trying for years to get a job with a major university which happens to be where I got my Masters. As one would expect as an alumnus, they often solicit for donations. I’ve resisted donating just because we get solicitations all the time, sometimes a little aggressively, e.g. late-evening phone calls. I did finally fulfill a pledge I made a few months ago, partly out of paranoia and partly out of genuine support.

    Do university employers ever look at whether an applicant is an alumnus and if they ever donated to the university and/or to the specific school/division they’re affiliated with? I would imagine it’s unethical if they did.

    1. Manders*

      I’m pretty sure hiring managers don’t have access to those systems. Even if they did, the kind of boss who you’d want to work for would never check it because it shouldn’t be a factor in hiring decisions.

    2. Murphy*

      Unless you were applying for a position in development, it would be completely different departments and highly doubt anyone would ever go out of their way to check donor status.

    3. AES*

      I work at a large university and have hired for both faculty and staff positions, and have reviewed candidates who are alumni of our programs. Not once did it ever occur to me to check whether they were donors. The only time where I can see this even remotely being an issue is if you were applying to work in fundraising or in a major alumni-facing position, and even then it would be, from my perspective, incredibly shady.

    4. Sara without an H*

      Hi, Mimmy —

      Development Offices are usually pretty well siloed in most universities. Unless you’re applying for a job there, nobody will know if you donate or not. The hiring manager may not even know you’re an alum, unless you specifically mention it in your cover letter.

      If the university is a major employer in your area, they probably get a lot of applicants for any open position, and that’s contributing to your difficulties in getting hired there. You might want to get out your resume and cover letter and spend some time in the AAM archives going over Alison’s advice.

    5. BRR*

      I used to work in university fundraising and we would never report out giving history to another department and I know our department would never take that into account. If you’re annoyed at them I would reach out and ask them to not contact you. I get specific and say do not call, do not mail, and do not email.

    6. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      I work for a university in a department that has recently been re-org-ed out of advancement into a separate unit so I have some experience working closely with advancement and alumni departments. They will likely know you are an alumnus, especially since your resume will, presumably, have your education listed, but they won’t have access to any donor history — as others have pointed out that’s a separate database than student records — and they won’t have access to student records either to see what grades you received unless you give them permission (that would be a FERPA violation because it’s not a “legitimate educational interest”), just in case you were wondering on that.

      In addition, my experience is that, if you think you’re hit up to donate now, as an alumnus, just wait until you’re an employee.

    7. Oxford Comma*

      In my experience, nobody pays any attention to this for hiring. There are development officers, certainly, but they tend to be operating separately and are not integrated at all into hiring or even usually the day-to-day activities of departments.

    8. Psyche*

      I highly doubt they have access to that information. And unless you were a major donor, I don’t think they would care.

    9. Nicole*

      I have worked in advancement at a university and our donor database was very secure and only accessible by us, not HR.

    10. Justme, The OG*

      The two systems should not be connected in any way so that HR can see if you have donated.

    11. PB*

      I’ve participated in searches at three large public universities. In my experience, no, we don’t have access to those systems. Donating is great is you want to and can afford to, but it truly will not affect your candidacy one way or the other.

    13. Polymer Phil*

      Yeah, I’m sure that admissions bribery scandal was all just a big misunderstanding.

  28. Risk Taker?*

    I have a question about taking a risk in your career.
    I like my current job just fine. Been here almost 5 years. I’m a little bored (with some things… other parts of the job are still interesting) but I like the company and I like the people I work with a lot. Last year I got passed up for a promotion opportunity, and it doesn’t look like there will be another one for quite a while (it’s a small company and people stick around). After reading this blog for a while I know it could be much worse. And feeling “bored and stagnant” is not exactly a great reason to leave. I have been keeping my ears open but have not been actively job hunting (because, like I said, things are pretty good).
    Recently, through professional contact, an opportunity has come my way that I am very intrigued by. It is a 180 from what I am doing now. It is actually in the same industry, but that is where the comparisons stop- both with the company and the job itself. A big part of me is interested in pursuing it, but another part of me thinks it’s crazy to make such a big change… not knowing if it would be something I would be happy in (when I am relatively happy now).
    Has anyone here made a big career leap into the unknown? How did it work out?

    1. MissGirl*

      Bored, stagnant, and not great pay was the reason I left my career and industry four years ago. It’s turn out really well. I’m still not making quite the money I had hoped to, but part of that was due to having to start over experience-wise. I am making almost double what I did before and now I own my home (well, me and the bank). I also have more of an upward mobility than ever would have.

      I sometimes still miss the work but I’ve learned no job is 100% perfect so figure out what’s most important.

    2. Bostonian*

      I feel like I could have written this. The only difference is my compensation package is OUTSTANDING so it would take a lot to get me to leave.

      I’d say it wouldn’t hurt to throw your hat in the ring and go into an interview being really clear in your mind on what it would take to get you to switch over and finding out if the position can offer that.

    3. Hmmm*

      I was in the same position as you (complete with passed up for a promotion) about 5 years ago. I made the leap and it was hands down the best thing I ever did for my career. It rounded out my resume in a way that made me much more attractive to future employers and has given me a much better perspective.

      Was it scary? Yes. I was comfortable at my job at the time. Knew the drill and felt a deep sense of safety there. Taking the job risked diving into the unknown and leaving behind my comfortable spot and starting over. Totally worth it. Even if it had ended up not working out, at least I would have known it didn’t work out and not lived with wondering.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It’s absolutely reasonable to change careers when your growth opportunities dry up [you say there’s little liklihood of an promotions at this rate], being bored and stagnant can be bad on your health in the long run. It truly just depends on what you thrive on. If I’m bored to tears, it starts wearing on my overall well being but I know that others can make due by expanding their personal lives/hobbies what have you. So again, totally a personal thing there.

      I’m all about taking calculated risks. I’m not going to quit tomorrow, pack up my car, take $50 bucks and try to “make it” in the movie industry or something. I will however make sure my eyes and ears are open for opportunities and I will explore them when they present themselves. That’s how you not only grow professionally, you stay satisfied with your professional life and you often become a bigger player in the game. It expands your network and your life view.

      Working at one company your entire life works great for some, some companies are fantastic and I can see why you wouldn’t necessarily want to try something when the grass is just fine on your side of the fence. But I like challenges and growth. Then again I also packed up at 30 and moved to a major city after growing up and kicking around dirt-towns the first 12 years of my working life. It was okay to begin with but yeah, we needed to expand.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        If I’m bored to tears, it starts wearing on my overall well being

        I’m the same way. This is why I’m looking to leave my current job. It’s nice and all, but I end up having entirely too much time on my hands in between projects, and the stuff I’m assigned rarely challenges me in the way I’m used to, so it’s time to move on. I have hobbies and things I do outside of work, but I’m still career driven, I’ve tried not to be, it’s just how I’m wired. OP, I think you should explore this opportunity – you don’t have to take anything, just feel it out for now. You may actually discover this position isn’t that much of a stretch for you after all, or you may determine you’re better off where you are. Either way, you won’t have the what if’s ringing through your head. Good luck whichever way you go.

    5. isitspringyet*

      It was something I had to do but I missed the little things, like having an established reputation, my hard earned vacation days, my family-like co workers, the ease of having an emergency to handle and not worry about whatever I needed. It was hard having the least seniority and not having the most. Although I loved learning the new job, I missed being a SME and the go to person. Also keep in mind to check your retirement/pension vesting. Best Wishes to you!

    6. Finally Back In A 'Proper Job'*

      I have recently switched careers completely and gone from running my own business to getting back to what my Dad calls a ‘proper’ job. It was a huge leap, made mostly because I was bored to death with the industry I was in rather than a lack of growth opportunity (I could have grown the business of course but just didn’t want to). It has been really really hard (lots of imposter syndrome, having to get comfortable with not knowing what I am doing having been at the top of my game) but so so worth it. I am learning so much, have met incredible people and have already developed loads. I feel like the sky is the limit again and am really excited to go to work every day.

      It is definitely worth at least looking into new roles and industries and sniffing out some options!

    7. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Spin that around and look at it again. You’re not “bored and stagnant”–you’re is “ready for new challenges and looking for opportunities for advancement in your career. “

    8. Prof_Murph*

      From a very different perspective, psychologically-speaking, people are very resilient and typically re-frame any decisions they’ve made as the right decision. There’s a sort of cognitive dissonance whereby “I decided to change jobs, and am in a new job, so I must like it” (attitude and behavior match). I know this sounds a little out there but you can trust your future self to make things work – you’ve served yourself well so far.

  29. Manon*

    I am probably overthinking this in a major way, but is it weird to scope out the Linkedin pages of people you don’t know at all/are in no way connected to?

    I’m a college student and I’ll sometimes look up people in roles that I might want in the future to see what they studied and what paths they took to get to where their positions, kind of like self career advising. Thing is, I don’t know them at all – I’ve just found out their names from company websites or from clicking on suggested people on Linkedin – but Linkedin SHOWS them that I’ve viewed their profile and I know they know because occasionally someone will view mine in return.

    Long story short I feel like a creepy stalker but I’m really just trying to get career help! Plus the profiles are all public so you kind of have to expect people to look at them, right?

    1. Hold My Cosmo*

      You can change your LinkedIn settings to view profiles anonymously. You lose the ability to see who has looked at your profile, but that’s a fair trade IMO.

      Go to “Settings & Privacy” under your profile, then under “How others see your LinkedIn activity” change “Profile Viewing Options” to “Private mode”.

    2. TCO*

      I don’t think it’s creepy–people must expect it to happen when they put out public information. I’m usually flattered when people look at my LI profile even if I don’t know why they looked at it. However, LI also offers a “browse in private mode” setting in the privacy settings that allows you to browse anonymously. The trade-off is that if you turn on that mode you also don’t get to see the names of who visited you. It’s an option for you if you’re interested but I also don’t think you’re doing anything wrong.

    3. Lucky*

      I wouldn’t worry about it. I get randos looking at my profile all the time – I assume they’re looking for someone else or just stumbled on my page, unless I can see a direct connection (like, if we have a job opening in my department and they fit the general title/industry for the position).

    4. ContemporaryIssued*

      I have done this as well, though I myself have no LinkedIn so I just view them totally anonymously. I like seeing different career paths, especially of people who have radically switched careers – like a former marketing director who’s now a building manager or whatever, or an English teacher who became a lawyer some 14 years into her career. Of course, these profiles present a very clean, and cleaned up image, but I do find them fascinating, and also inspiring. If my current job or field makes me lose all hope, it is nice to see that re-training and doing something entirely different is usually a possibility, though it involves a lot of hard work no LinkedIn profile is going to show.

    5. Tarra*

      Actually I think this is a super sensible thing to do as you get to see real people’s career paths. It’s not weird.

    6. CatCat*

      You’re not a creepy stalker! People put info about their professional lives on a public space designed exactly for that. It would be totally normal for you to look there for the information you’re looking for.

    7. Lilysparrow*

      I don’t think it’s creepy at all. When I was starting my freelance business, I would often scan profiles of people offering the same kind of services to get ideas about keywords for my services, types of clients to approach, and what sorts of projects seemed to be in demand.

      Not competing directly with them, but taking note of things like, “oh, these guys seem to blend a lot of custom teas for local restaurants. I hadn’t thought of that.”

  30. LGC*

    I now have a budding coffee war in my office.

    One of my employees usually makes a pot of coffee for the office. Another employee has started vocally complaining about how it’s too weak for him. I did shut him down, but…okay, I might be at BEC with him because he is overly outspoken about a lot of things, but I’m pretty annoyed that this is a thing.

    (He did volunteer to make the second pot of the day, which puts a band-aid on it.)

    1. Snark*

      I really want to understand what makes people think, “Yes, it is right and proper that I should complain vocally about the strengh of the coffee someone voluntarily made for me,” because I cannot get there from here.

      1. LGC*

        Simple: he has no filter, much like a lot of people in this office. (Admittedly I don’t have the best filtering myself!)

        2. Office Gumby*

          Complaining about coffee that someone else made or if the kindness of their hearts is Chock Full o’ Nuts.

      2. AcademiaNut*

        Well, if you have to wait until the current coffee pot is empty before you get a drinkable cup it’s kind of annoying, particularly for the first cup of the day. And you can water down already made coffee, but you can’t make it stronger, and bringing in your own coffee making system is extra fuss and expense.

        If the guy isn’t willing to make the coffee himself, I don’t sympathize, but if he can’t make the first pot because the other person gets there first I do, particularly as the OP says that the coffee maker really does make very weak coffee.

        1. LGC*

          He also called her out on break in front of the rest of the office (me, my co-supervisor, and the other 15 people in the open space). So that was the piece I was primarily concerned about – I did agree that the coffee was pretty weak, but you just don’t go out and embarrass people in front of the entire team.

          Also, it’s still drinkable! (Except for…okay, I’m bad, but there was one time where there was so little coffee put in that I thought there was something wrong with the coffee maker at first. In my defense, I hadn’t looked in the basket, so I had no idea.)

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      That’s annoying. If you don’t like the coffee, make it yourself. It’s not hard to bring in a little French press or a thermos from home. I prefer my coffee to be really strong, so I have a can of Bustelo and a reusable Keurig pod at my desk. Annoying to me? Sure. But it’s more important to me that my coffee be to my liking, so I deal with the inconvenience.

      1. LGC*

        Here’s a plot twist: I secretly agree with him! The other employee uses about half the amount of coffee I suggested she put in (I like it strong), but…like, it’s still drinkable. And she makes the coffee to save me and my coworker time making it in the morning, which I appreciate a lot. (Plus, she’s a little sensitive and this is not a hill I’m willing to die on.)

        Coffee guy is…a work in progress in general (I’ve actually posted about him before in the Friday thread, I think). Plus, we’re the kind of place where I’m not expecting my team to bring in their own French presses to begin with.

    3. boredatwork*

      +1 If you don’t like it make your own. We have a department coffee pot, we have an “agreed” upon amounts of coffee to add, which the admin does every morning when she gets in (she doesn’t even drink it, she’s just kind).

      In a few months we have a contractor coming – he gets in EARLY. He makes the coffee X2 stronger than what we “agree” to. Guess what? we make two pots. Everyone knows pot #1 is strong AF and pot #2 will be usual strength.

      It has NEVER been an issue. You make the coffee you pick the strength

      1. LGC*

        I need to be friends with your contractor.

        But I completely agree. Besides, it’s office coffee. Don’t walk in here expecting Starbucks.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          My company actually does give us free Starbucks coffee to brew (well, the building management company does), and it still never comes out quite right.

    4. CatCat*

      Such a weird thing to complain about since it’s such a simple thing to resolve on one’s own.

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      He sounds precious.

      “I don’t like this nice-thing someone did.”

      It’s like the people who go “Oh you brought donuts. Sigh. I was hoping someone would bring bagels.” Bro. Then go get your bagel, I will not be hurt. Also then they eat/drink what they’re complaining about…

      It’s just weak coffee. It’s going to be okay, maaaaaaan.

      Get him some of those STOK extra-shots for Christmas if you do gift exchange *grinch smile*

      1. LGC*

        I’VE ACTUALLY GOTTEN THE DONUTS THING

        (Granted, this was at a time when I’d regularly bring in Krispy Kreme when they had sales – like once every couple of weeks.)

        It might sound like I work with monsters, but…really, they’re mostly not that bad and pretty appreciative! (Although I’ve had to get a thicker skin.)

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Oh I don’t think they’re monsters!

          I think they’re just a bunch of Wo/Man Children. Children whine about free things.

          If someone complains that they don’t like the donuts or whatever, I have been known to say “Oh, okay, so you don’t want yours?” And then just casually grab the “spare” and toss it in the garbage. “I saved you from having to take that, phew!” [Or I would just grab it and eat it later but the garbage move was for extra flare that day].

          1. LGC*

            I think they’re just a bunch of Wo/Man Children. Children whine about free things.

            You’d…actually be right, and close to literally. A lot of them are pretty young and are still learning how to work in an office and the various rules thereof. (Coffee dude is in his early-mid 20’s, and I think the chick who announced her fatigue with my donuts to me wasn’t even old enough to drink at the time. Sometimes I forget about this!)

            1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

              This gives me so much more hope! I have only recently in my career [despite being on the verge of old age at 35] started working with my own generation [the younger part, since I’m up here at the top of it, argh]. So I’m just used to this behavior from middle-aged folks! So I hope that these ones grow a filter, I refuse to lose hope, everyone is different and I have seen people evolve/grow up.

              Seriously me at 25, let’s forget I was ever less than 30, byeeeeeeeee. I was raised with a mother who would have unleashed her “HOW DARE YOU, I RAISED YOU BETTER” on me if I had been whiny about anything not being to my exact liking but I know that others were allowed to be picky eaters and always voicing their delicate feels.

  31. Sled dog mama*

    So I just got my appointment date/time to take my board exam, work is requiring that I pass this exam in the next two years to remain employed (only offered once a year).
    I have to travel from east coast to west coast to take the exam (in person oral exam with 5 examiners). I’m planning to take the day before and day after off but is it wrong of me to assume that the actual day of the exam should not count against my PTO since it’s a requirement of the job?

    1. Sled dog mama*

      Should say that my state laws and Industry DO NOT require this certification yet this is an employer requirement.

      1. this ain't a scene*

        My feeling if that if the employer is requiring it as part of your job, then it should be on work time. But ask your boss how it’s worked for people in the past?

      2. Pharmgirl*

        In that case, honestly they should be paying for everything – days of travel, day of exam, travel expenses, exam expenses. I would definitely ask about getting reimbursement.

    3. Namast'ay in Bed*

      If they’re requiring you to get this certification and these are (PTO) expenses you are incurring due your job, then they should cover them.

      You should definitely check with your manager though, just to be safe.

    4. Antilles*

      I work in an industry with a similar Professional Certification and my experience is that the answer *really* depends on your company. The answers for “do I need to use PTO” and “will my company pay for this certification” basically run the entire spectrum.
      Some companies would pay for everything and not require you to use PTO even for the surrounding days. Other companies treat it as furthering your career, so it’s all out of pocket including the PTO. And plenty of companies take other stances somewhere in the middle a stance sort of in the middle – we pay 50% of the cost and you pay the other 50%, we pay upfront and you only get reimbursed if you pass, we won’t require you to use PTO but still expect you to work the same number of hours so put in two extra hours Monday through Thursday, etc.
      That said, it’s absolutely worth asking about. It varies enough that nobody will judge you for asking and the worst thing they can say is the “no” where you’re already at.

      1. Antilles*

        Note that I’m assuming this “board exam” is an industry-wide certification of some kind – the kind of thing that you’d benefit from even if you switched companies in a couple years. That’s where the whole justification for not covering everything comes from – it’s something that you’re doing partly because of your company but also as a benefit to yourself.
        If I’m wrong and this is exclusive to the company and useless elsewhere, then it’s a lot more cut and dry “yes they should pay for it”, because at that point, it’s primarily serving as a benefit to them, not you.

        1. Sled dog mama*

          Yes, it’s a certification exam. There are 2-3 certifying bodies to choose from and my employer requires this one I probably would have pursued a different (less expensive but notoriously harder to get) one if work hadn’t required this one.

    5. Tara S.*

      Ask for it off as administrative leave, since it is “professional development” and something you need to do the job.

      I wanted to take the whole day off when I did my final Masters Capstone presentation. I asked my boss what kind of leave I should put into the system for that day. He said “I think that would be vacation.” And I said, “Oh, I wasn’t sure if I should code it as administrative leave, since the Masters is part of my professional development.” And he said that would be fine. So, no PTO lost. (And imo, no, you shouldn’t have to take a day so it deducts from your PTO bucket.)

    6. Sleepytime Tea*

      If this is an employer requirement, then you should not have to use PTO for either the day of the exam OR travel days to get to the exam if you don’t have the option to take it closer to home.

  32. Media Monkey*

    has anyone ever done a Thomas International PPA test? Did anything useful come out of it?

    I had to do one for an interview yesterday and you have to choose from a list of 4 words which best and which least describe you at work. One of the words was “neighbourly”. what does that even mean in a work context? That i talk to the person i sit next to?

    1. curly sue*

      I might understand that better as “collegiality,” or “plays well with others,” but I’m not entirely sure.

  33. Trying To Be A Good Ally*

    Question for LBGTQ+ community from a cis het woman: what are your thoughts on a rainbow “ALLY” signature below your normal work signature? Some people at my company use it, but I’m not sure if it comes across as a white knight gesture to adopt it. We have a Pride group at work and more friends/colleagues have been coming out lately, and I want to show my support without overstepping.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I’ve always felt that my work signature is for work related information only, and my personal email signature is for whatever else.

      It just feels weird to me to throw a bunch of personal stuff automatically at the end of an email about TPS reports or whatever.

    2. this ain't a scene*

      Lesbian here: I hate any image in any signatures.

      I feel if you’re in a role where you might interact with the public in a way that signaling you’re an ally is relevant, then I don’t think there’s harm in it. The best way to show support is to just be supportive. Actions speak louder than sig files ;)

      1. this ain't a scene*

        Oh, and about signatures: I got one recently with an “inspirational quote” at the end… that credited the sender as the person who said it.

    3. Où est la bibliothèque?*

      It’s well-meaning, but it’s also identifying yourself as straight, and your email signature shouldn’t indicate your sexual orientation.

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        I don’t feel it necessarily identifies a person to be straight if they say they’re an ally. Partly because LGBT+ is quite broad so you could be identifying as part of it (eg. Trans but straight, or via but gay) or be potentially questioning etc and consider yourself as part of LGBT+ but also an ally (to people identifying as other parts of the acronym).

        For this reason and others, the universy I work at recently renamed their “straight allies network” as “LGBT+ allies network” to remove the assumption that someone who is an “ally” is necessarily straight. (It’s also in line what what other companies/groups are using as the term to refer to their allies).

        As for the signature thing… My opinion as a gay woman (and part of my staff pride and allies network at work, and also the LGBT+ project in my city) is… Quite neutral. I think it depends a bit on exactly what the signature/image is/says I guess. I think work signatures are often quite long and messy as it is and often don’t display well on mobiles either.

        1. Ruth (UK)*

          Ps autocorrect changed cis to via and I swear I thought I’d fixed it but apparently I didn’t. Above it should read ‘cis but gay’ not via…)

    4. Myrin*

      It would feel out of place to me (with maybe one exception being if you worked for a queer-issues-focused organisation where everyone declared their “status”, so to speak, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case for you). What am I supposed to do with that information? I’m going to base my estimation of someone’s allyship on my interactions with them, not on whether or not they have a rainbow signature declaring them an ally.

    5. DC*

      I think it depends on what you do. When I worked at a university and interacted with students, we all had our pronouns in our signatures and indications of safe space or ally training. If it’s not a standard where you are, that’s different.

      That said, normalizing pronouns in a signature/twitter bio isn’t a bad thing.

      1. DC*

        Also, to be clear, I’m bi and I would also 100% judge based on your actions not a rainbow in your signature. I also strongly hate images and inspirational quotes, haha.

      2. Arielle*

        I was going to suggest the pronoun thing too. We have had people start to put pronouns in their Slack display names and it’s nice.

    6. anon today and tomorrow*

      I don’t like it the same way I wouldn’t want to see someone’s religion in their signature or their support of any other social issue.

      But I also really side-eye ally gestures like rainbow signatures or turning their social media icons rainbow colored in June. Because it just reminds me that allies can make everything a rainbow of support in a way that a lot of LGBTQA+ people can’t. A straight person can put a rainbow in their signature with no major repercussions, but a closeted or private LGBTQA+ person might not be able to because it outs them or has people default assume they’re a straight ally.

      It’s sort of like Pride. I know allies who love going and don’t ever acknowledge that there are LGBTQA+ people who still don’t feel comfortable or welcome at Pride, even more so when straight people are there in droves.

      Being a good ally is not merely having a rainbow on your social media or email signature. That’s lazy slacktivism. Being a good ally is treating your friend/colleague no differently and letting them know that you’re a safe person to talk to, and speaking up against bigotry when they’re not around to defend themselves.

      1. anon today and tomorrow*

        Sorry, I realized this was a long rant, but I get really, really annoyed by straight people who do the rainbows of support in their emails/social media profiles. I always have a knee jerk reaction to it.

        1. Lynne*

          Agreed! If you want to show that you’re an ally (which I don’t think anyone should claim to be; just do the work, support folks, take action), put your pronouns in your signature. That speaks much more loudly.

      2. Overeducated*

        Yeah, I think this is where my discomfort comes from, it’s a performative thing that marks you *as a straight person.* A rainbow flag somewhere on your desk or pronouns in your signature are different because those are things anyone could use to normalize differences at work.

        1. anon today and tomorrow*

          Yes. I think why it makes me so angry is because it feels like a slap in the face to people who can’t, for whatever reason, mark themselves as part of the LGBT community.

          It’s also one of those situations where someone from the marginalized group starts a trend and then people from the majority appropriate it for their own use. That’s why so many LGBT identities have started identifying themselves with their individual flags. It’s to distance themselves from rainbow clad straight allies.

      3. The Other Chelsea*

        100% this. As a queer woman, I agree and am glad someone already said so eloquently exactly how I also feel.

    7. Jess*

      Are you willing to put your own job on the line for the cause? Because that’s what I would expect from someone who is advertising themselves as an ally in their work signature. Especially if I was LGBTQ+ and needed allies to step up in a particular work situation related to that.

    8. Dragoning*

      Oh my God, I would hate this. It’s incredibly performative, IMO.

      I don’t trust people who identify strongly as an “ally” because a good majority of the time they don’t listen when they get called out, so it’s meaningless to me. I still don’t trust that they’re going to be safe to talk to about any of this, just that they might not…beat me up.

      1. anon today and tomorrow*

        I think you explained my dislike of it better than I could have. Performative is the perfect word for it. Even the people I’ve met who strongly identify as an ally who are genuinely well-intentioned often come off as though they want recognition for being an ally. They tend to be the ones, in my experience, who don’t understand why the LGBT community is upset when they feel like straight people are encroaching on their symbols, spaces, or events because they’re so deep in the “love is love” mindset.

        The people who push their “ally status” are people I tend to avoid because they generally don’t want to have a safe space to discuss the nuances of the community since they tend to default to surface level issues and assumptions.

      2. Où est la bibliothèque?*

        I’ve definitely known people who proudly say that they’re allies, and mean well, but also sort of think that they’ve earned their permanent Ally-ness Has Been Achieved badge, and they’re actually less likely to be sensitive and willing to adjust their language/perspective/etc.

        1. Dragoning*

          As I have seen online plenty of times: “Ally” is a verb, not a noun.

          At least in this case.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          I won’t name names, but that happened on Twitter recently — a high-profile ally got called out on some problematic language and doubled down and it was….not a good look.

    9. deesse877*

      If you work in a context where personal lives are salient (ex: health care or education), then do it. I spent some time in the hospital recently and I was surprised how much it mattered to me. If you work in a place where public and official homophobia is common (ex: campaign mailers that warn against the “gay agenda”; daily efforts by LGBTQIA friends to avoid violence or confrontation), then do it.

      If you’re not in one of those circumstances, use your own judgment. I don’t use flags or symbols myself, and I question a LOT of mainstream LGBTQIA political leaders, groups, etc., but if I thought survival was on the table for anyone around me I’d wear Lena Waithe’s cape to work.

      1. No Name Yet*

        Yes, I think this is a good point re: healthcare and education. At our hospital we have rainbow lanyards as an option (with a specific statement of being LBGTQ supportive), and if I were a patient seeing that on a provider would absolutely make me more comfortable.

        1. Teach*

          I have really pretty watercolor rainbow “Safe Space” stickers on the doors to my classroom and office for this reason. They are from our state’s organization to promote physical and emotional safety for LGBTQ+ students and teachers, which will also come train folks in starting a GSA. So a signal of active ally-ness, but also with some street-cred and where students would see it in context before interacting with me?

          1. Humble Schoolmarm*

            There was a push for ally training and stickers in my district just before I was hired, but it has since disappeared. I use a 4×6 rainbow flag that’s quite visible when you come into my classroom instead. I teach 7th graders, so I feel like it is important for them (and their parents!) for me to be more direct. In another industry, I would stick with show, don’t just tell.

    10. BRR*

      My opinion as a cis gay man is I don’t care for it at all. You have great intentions, but meh. I think including pronouns in your email signature would be better. I realized this is somewhat problematic but I would assume any person who lists pronouns is an ally of the trans community and would also be an ally of the other parts of the LGBTQ+ community.

      1. Joielle*

        Cis bi lady here, and I was going to say the same thing. I think the rainbow is a little performative, as Dragoning notes above. But pronouns are a legitimately useful thing to put in an email signature, and including them does signal allyship in my opinion.

    11. Certified Lesbian*

      Honestly, I find stuff like this unimpressive at best and borderline offensive at worst. Individuals can show their support by donating their time and money to LGBT organizations and political movements and employers can do it by giving LGBT employees good wages, good benefits, and protecting and supporting them even when the law says they don’t have to. I don’t care about your rainbow signature.

    12. LGC*

      I’m 1) gay and 2) more importantly, a fan of minimal email signatures. (We have company email signatures. I only use mine on the first external email in a chain.)

      Anyway. If I were you I wouldn’t put it in your signature, especially if your signature goes on every email you send. It sounds like it’s a visually eye catching design, which can get a little overwhelming in volume. As for the politics, I think it’s a great sentiment personally. Some might see it as white knighting, but…you can’t control what other people think.

    13. Trying To Be A Good Ally*

      I really appreciate the feedback and recognize it’s not meaningful in the way actual actions are. Thank you to everyone for pointing that out.

      Admittedly, I was a little weirded out when I first saw it crop up in emails from other people years ago and saw it as performative, as many commented. The reason I asked is because a friend recently came out very publicly and told me they felt so much better thanks to all of the supportive comments on social media, and thought maybe an email signature would be a way of signaling it all the time and not just when it impacted people I personally know. The fact that it would rub the exact people I think I’m trying to support is reason enough not to add it, and will continue to provide support in my everyday actions instead.

  34. this ain't a scene*

    This week on a one-on-one call with my supervisor, he asked me the same question three times in ten minutes. Was he trying to get a different answer? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    This is nowhere near the first time he’s done this, but it was the first time it was so many times in so short a time, usually there’s 10 minutes before he asks me the same question again.

    (It’s not memory problems. I have experience with people with memory problems. This is someone who isn’t paying attention.)

  35. An Amazing Detective-Slash-Genius*

    My company is looking to hire an office manager, 20-40 hours a week (we don’t know part or full time yet…), but we’re not sure where to look for one. We’d like it to be a longer-term thing than an internship and with interns we’ve had, their schedules are unreliable and change frequently with their new classes, and we just need something more consistent. Are job boards like Indeed good for this? Has anyone had experience hiring somebody for this type of position? Unfortunately it’s not exactly thrilling work but we also need someone who is reliable and reasonably good. Help!!

    1. Amber Rose*

      We hired ours using Indeed. Part time didn’t work out very well but full time has been going OK for the last month.

    2. this ain't a scene*

      We’ve hired for these in the past using the same application website and promotional websites like other jobs.

      I’m a little concerned that this was previously considered an “intern job”. I hope once you have someone permanent in the role that they’re valued like other employees.

      1. An Amazing Detective-Slash-Genius*

        Sorry, “intern” probably isn’t the best word for it – it’s more like students that want to work part-time while studying, the same group that would look for a job as a barista or something. The office manager jobs are spread out across everyone in the office – it’s a small office and we do a weird thing that very little students actually study for.

        I don’t have clout in any of this by the way, I’m just here for ideas that I can pass on to higher-ups

    3. Festo*

      That doesn’t sound like an appropriate role for an intern anyway. Internships are supposed to provide some sort of educational benefit to the intern. You need to hire a regular employee. Office Manager is a common enough job that you should be able to recruit for it on general job search sites like Indeed.

    4. Lilith*

      Look for a parent of young children who wants to work 4/5 hours a day. I don’t know how your ad would run or where but I’d bet if you could figure out that piece, you would get a lot of applicants.

      1. OtterB*

        I did this once, a long time ago, back when people still put ads in the paper. I don’t know how you’d do it now. We needed someone part time but with some fairly specific skills. I worded the ad to emphasize flexibility, trying to target it for a mom returning to the workforce after some time out with kids. We hired a dad returning to the workforce after some time out with his kids, and he was awesome.

      2. Parenthetically*

        I had the same thought! I know plenty of parents who would LOVE a job that fits within their kids’ elementary school dropoff/pickup times! A non-exciting, steady, straightforward job that brings in some money and fits between 8:30 and 3 is SOLID GOLD for that demographic.

    5. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Use a temp agency! You get to try people out and, if they don’t work, you can end the assignment and try someone else. If they do work out, then you can hire them on (generally after a specific # of hours worked through the agency or after paying a fee).

    6. OtterB*

      Can you ask current employees to publicize it? I sometimes see things like this posted on a group email for a hobby of mine, or on a neighborhood Facebook group: my organization is looking for someone with these qualifications, good place to work, etc.

      Or, work with a temp firm for a temp to perm hire?

    7. Moving to Australia*

      I’ve had a similar job in the past. I found it in Craigslist. I would say advertise on the normal job boards. Indeed, ZipRecrutier, Craigslist. If your company has a Facebook page, my office has gotten decent results through Facebooks job market. I don’t know anything about hiring for this position though. The job I had was my first job out of collage.

    8. Phx Acct, now with dragons*

      This is how I made my $$ when I was home with the kids. I worked with mostly small construction businesses who were making the transition from good-ol-boy-cash-only to **legitimate** businesses. Turned into a fantastic little consulting business. I’d go in, set up the books, train folks on basic accounting procedures, eventually hire an admin, and bounce. Maybe stop I quarterly to clean up the books and prep for their CPA.

      Temp companies are great for this. They’ll often have people who have no desire to work full time, but have education and experience.

      Also, tap other small businesses in your network. Ask if they know anyone or suggest a firm.

  36. T. Librarian*

    What would you do? I am a manager of a small office that is one of three satellite offices within a larger office located in another part of my city. The head of the office had a death in her family. I wasn’t sure if the expectation was that each of the satellite offices would do something individually, or if the office as a whole would do something together, so I emailed the boss’s second in command to find out. In the meantime, one of my employees took it upon himself to send flowers from “Employee’s Name and the rest of the Satellite Office.” Only after sending the flowers did he send an email to everyone on my team saying he had done so (note that his email said that the “card is from all staff of the office” but didn’t specify that it was from his name and “all staff of the office” and not from each of us by name) and inviting contributions. I learned how the card was signed when I gave my employee money; I had responded to his initial email telling him that I would have liked him to check with me before taking action on behalf of the office because he didn’t know if something else was in the works, and he took the opportunity of my giving him money to tell me that by suggesting he talk to me first, I was asking him to violate his principles. He said he wasn’t acting “on behalf of the office” because our names weren’t on the card.
    So… 1. if you were in my position when this happened, would you send something else on behalf of the office that is actually on behalf of the office? 2. if you were in my position when this happened and then learned that the office as a whole is doing something, and the individual satellite offices are NOT expected to do something, how would you respond? 3. If this were NOT just another element in a long-standing clash between you and your employee in which the employee is consistently and subtly insubordinate, would this be less of an issue than I am thinking it is?

    1. fposte*

      If satellite offices aren’t doing anything, I certainly wouldn’t send something else.

      And while I think it would be a bigger deal if I’d already been at dagger points with the dude, I’d in any case make it clear that his principles aren’t relevant here. If he wants to send a private tribute, that’s fine, but he doesn’t get to choose to send something privately and then shake his co-workers down for contributions, no matter what was on the card. (If you think there’s a possibility he’s inflating the cost to try to profit, request the receipt for the arrangement.) Asking for contributions stops now.

      If he’s repeatedly insubordinate, what’s keeping him from being fired?

    2. ChimericalOne*

      If I were you, I’d speak with him again and make it clear that *anything* sent that says “From [Joe] AND THE REST OF THE SATELLITE OFFICE” has been sent on behalf of the office, whether individual names were listed or not, and that he is not to ever send things on behalf of the office without checking in with you first. “Is that something you think you can do?” should follow this calm, firm statement. If he says he can’t, I’d follow that with, “If that’s not something you think you can do, this office might not be a good fit for you. This is something I need you to do.” or “This is a condition of working in this office.”

      I wouldn’t worry about the rest. Don’t send a separate gift, don’t stress about whether the satellite offices were “supposed” to send something. And yes, this would be an issue even if the employee weren’t regularly insubordinate (maybe not the gift, could’ve been an innocent mistake, but the reaction to being told NOT to do it again).

      Also, you need to be calling him out firmly on all his insubordination: e.g., “I need you to listen to this feedback and change your behavior. While you might find this upsetting, this isn’t something we can have a conversation about. I need you to change this behavior as a condition of your employment here.” Then, if he doesn’t stop, you need to let him go.

      1. Enough*

        What stood out to me was his claim it wasn’t from the office but he wanted contributions for the cost.

    3. Not Me*

      1. If you send something else, like a fruit and cheese gift basket to their house instead of flowers to the funeral, then yes. If you’re just sending another bouquet of flowers with a different card, it may be confusing/odd.
      2. More thoughtful things sent to someone who is grieving is better than not enough.
      3. Yes, definitely. If the employee is consistently insubordinate that should be handled though.

    4. mdv*

      No matter what he says, when he added “and all the other employees of satellite office” to his card, he did, in fact, decide to act on everyone’s behalf! And since he didn’t say anything until after he’d done it, I would probably just ignore his request for contributions.

      1. I probably would, and if it comes up, let whoever asks know that employee didn’t realize the office would do something separate, and overstepped his authority by signing his card the way he did. But I don’t think anyone will say anything to you about this. The surviving relatives have much bigger fish to fry beyond a “huh, weird” reaction.

      2. Again, I’d only respond if it comes up, and then I’d be honest. “Fergus sent flowers without checking in first, so I didn’t get a chance to relay that the office as a whole was doing something instead.

      3. “Violate his principles”?!?!? What a jerk. I would use this as a supporting example when you figure out how to write him up for the consistent and subtle insubordination, and work on managing him out from under you.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      grrr.
      When a person signs for other people, then they are acting on the behalf of those people they signed for. I agree he can sign his own name and let it go at that. I would let him know he cannot sign other people’s names.
      Additionally, he cannot spend money or ask for money after the fact. I’d tell him that going forward, since I am the boss I am in charge of the group response or gift given to loss/personal emergency/etc. If he signs other people’s names again or signs for the entire office, that will be considered insubordination.

      1) I might send something if I was particularly fond of the person or if the person had gone to lengths to help me and my group. Also I would consider how much of this can I afford to as in what if everyone lost someone? This might help me to curb the idea of getting a gift in addition to the card.

      2) I would get a lovely card and pass it around for each person to sign. I might even escort the card around the group for signatures.

      3)I think condolences should come from the highest ranked person in the group, especially if someone is going to sign for the group. Yeah, that reads to me like he stepped on your toes. I do think that you’d be better off picking the larger problems as your focus. I would just tell him not to sign for anyone but himself ever again and after that let it go in favor of what the actual problems are.

    6. T. Librarian*

      All, thanks for this feedback. I couldn’t tell if I was just being prickly because of the ongoing issues with him, or if there really was a problem with his actions in this case.

      What I didn’t add in my original post here is that I asked him what principles he thought I was asking him to violate, and he responded that if I “didn’t understand, I never would.” He had been listening to music prior to the discussion, and after he said this, he just put his earbuds back in and turned around!

      1. fposte*

        What did you do then?

        (And are you Teapot Librarian posting about your nemesis under a slightly different name, or is it just a librarian curse?)

        1. T. Librarian*

          What I did then was to go straight to my office and documented the conversation. I probably should have responded in the moment but somehow I’m never prepared for his rudeness. And I plead the 5th.

          1. Gerald*

            I don’t think you can say anything in the moment. By putting on his music, he was controlling the situation and was probably hoping for you to push him so that he could show that he was in control. My most cynical view is that he was hoping to give a big show of “I’m being pushed around here, because I did something nice and you aren’t appreciating it, and now you’re being mean to me”.

            I don’t know much about managing people, but this one sounds like a serious problem. I think a meeting in your office is the much better way to go.

            1. valentine*

              I am really tired of guys like this making women’s work lives a misery. It’s fine to fire him now and to stop second-guessing yourself.

              Don’t give him money, for anything, ever. Literally naming the office and lying is gaslighting. There is no way for him to act on information he gained via work (in this case, the bereavement) without repping the company.

    7. Knotty Ferret*

      Unless this guy is in a position where he regularly sends things on behalf of the office (cards, Christmas baskets, etc), I’d agree he seems to have over-stepped. I’m really not sure how “before acting for the office, ask your boss what the office plan is” can be against his principles. Sending on his own behalf would be a little odd, unless he was especially close, but not an over-step.

      Since this is a done sort of thing, I’d treat it as done: “the satellite office” has sent flowers, though you may wish to see what was sent and send something additional if what he sent was not up to the quality you’d like to represent the office (but note that’s addition, not replacement, so it could get weird if it’s too lavish). As for organizing with the main office, let them know your office already arranged something from your satellite office (details about how that happened are dependent on your relationship there – you know whether an apology or explanation will weaken your reputation or give necessary background better than I can).

    8. Someone Else*

      He can’t really have it both ways?
      If he signs it “me+office” he’s implying it is from the office, so “the office can’t tell me what to do because it’s not from the office” is nonsense. Especially if he’s after-the-fact asking for cash for thing he already purchased and sent.

      1. Nana*

        Bit of a side note: In some cultures (Orthodox Jewish, for one), flowers are INappropriate and UNwelcome. And certainly no one, aside from Big Boss, should decide on an all-office response. Worth a write-up, IMHO

  37. Meredith Brooks*

    This is just a vent. I’m sorry, I have no questions, but any advice, support is always appreciated!

    The circle of my acceptance, ambivalence, irritation, and frustration of my current career has rounded back to MUST LEAVE status. I’m not the boss’s favorite this week. This happens. It usually lasts a week or two and then we return to a normal ebb and flow. The difference? This time she wasn’t just short with me, but essentially made me irrelevant during a meeting last week. I don’t think it was intentional. Short version. I had to tell my direct report not to do something, which had been irritating my boss. Let’s say it was chewing gum. During the meeting, my boss not only chewed gum, but offered some to my direct report. This happened literally the day after I told the staffer not to chew gum (which boss was well aware of). In the same meeting, she also cut me off and finished an update. I suppose she didn’t like how I was telling it. I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that my boss, although generally quite a good and decent person, is a micromanager and if I had to guess, my skills are not those she needs in a manager of the department. I accept those details as being relatively factual. But, I can’t abide being made to look semi-ridiculous and then feeling regularly useless. This is all made worse by the fact that I have no desire to stay in my career and actively looking to leave it. So, I’m doing a job I don’t particularly like and have in equal measure basically been told at my organization I’m great and terrible. (multiple times — this is not the first time I’ve been pushed and pulled in different directions).

    Honestly, I’m just grateful I’ve been through worse at other companies. Because although my mental health is taking a little bit of a beating, I know for a fact I’m handling this better than I would have 10 years ago.

    1. ChimericalOne*

      Can you request a meeting with your boss’s boss to talk about her? She doesn’t honestly sound like a very good person. Good people don’t undermine, interrupt, and humiliate their employees, and then act sweet to them just long enough to keep them from leaving before initiating the cycle again. Sounds like classic abuse, actually, although I can’t tell from your post if it quite rises to that level.

      1. Meredith Brooks*

        That would fail miserably. My boss’s boss is a fan. As are most. As am I (generally). On the 90% whole she can be supportive and collaborative. But, she does have a mean streak. It’s not the “throw you under the bus kind of mean streak,” it’s more of a withholding of support. There’s probably some element of abusive behavior in there, but it’s not so significant that it causes me regular stress and anxiety. It just reinforces that I’m kind of done. And having to continue in a relationship that doesn’t make you happy (though doesn’t make you miserable) is not a wonderful feeling.

          1. valentine*

            Why would it fail if you were to genuinely ask why she pulled the gum routine? She seems like someone who will now turn around and blame you when the employee next breaks out the gum.

            It would serve you to set aside your fan status and really reflect on her behavior to see how much you’re really dismissing and letting slide, and if she isn’t really 90+% awful.

  38. Alfonzo Mango*

    Did anyone else see the 40-hours-a-week ‘freelance’ position offered by David Tamarkin at Conde Nast? He tweeted about the position (it was a very scary and unfair job posting) and was immediately ratioed, people even snitched to the NYC labor department.

    It made me very grateful for regulations and Twitter.

    1. this ain't a scene*

      I saw that show up on a blog! I sat there thinking “full…. time…. freelance????” and then spent a while doubting that I even knew what freelance meant. I concluded that I knew what freelance was, but Conde Nast did not ;)

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        It’s a really, really typical designation for media companies. I used to work for one of the big ones and they had a ton of “permalancers”; I was in the running for a position and turned it down so fast when I learned it was permalance, but it was so glamorous and exciting that I might have considered it if I hadn’t just recovered from a broken foot and was afraid of losing my health insurance. A guy I knew took a job with the same company and apparently had no idea that “full-time freelance” meant he didn’t have his taxes taken out of his paycheck. There was a blog article about this (maybe on The Muse?). It’s pervasive and has been accepted in the media industry for decades. I think this type of incident will go towards changing things, but it’s so tough when the industry is full of power players PLUS people who will take anything just to get their feet in the door. (My salary would have doubled if I had gone to a different company when I was mid-level; my company got away with paying so much less to junior staff because everyone wanted to–still wants to– work there.)

    2. LCL*

      I had to look this up. Ratioed refers to how many people reply to a twitter post vs how many people like it. Saying someone was ratioed means someone received a number of large negative replies to their twitter post, much more than liked it.

    3. annakarina1*

      I was glad that was called out. It reminded me of an old part-time freelance publishing job that I had where I was given a fancy-sounding title, but was only paid a cheap daily stipend, treated as the help, had to invoice my hours every two weeks with the finance guy acting confused about it each time, had to pay taxes because I was on a 1099 and not a W2 despite doing a lot of weekly editorial work, and let go after two years for “budget reasons.” So I had some residual bitterness, and was happy to see that crap getting checked by the Department of Labor.

    4. Annie Moose*

      Oh, that one was crazy. My favorite part of the job description was “building” 30 recipes a month… claimed to be just 15% of the job.

      40 hours/week * 4 weeks/month = 160 hours/month
      15% of 160 hours = 24 hours
      24 hours / 30 recipes = just 48 minutes PER RECIPE

      This was later claimed to be purely data entry, but… no one calls data entry “building recipes”.

      (for comparison, people who do recipe development full time might develop 10 recipes a month… without also having to produce daily newsletters, do SEO, write 4-6 posts a week, and handle administrative work)

      1. Lilysparrow*

        Even if you’re swiping other people’s recipes and changing the wording to dodge a copyright claim, 48 minutes each is hardly enough.

        Maybe if you’re using article-spinning software. But you’d still have to edit it properly afterward.

        1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

          Does this explain why some recipes are dreadful or missing ingredients? LOL.

  39. Eh*

    How do you get over imposter syndrome and the fear of leaving a known entity?

    I’ve posted a few times about being frustrated with how things are at my current job, including ineffective management and our department head playing favorites, and I just completed a reference check for what seems like an amazing opportunity… but I am scared to death of leaving where I’m comfortable. My current company is ostensibly good, my coworkers are great, we have good benefits, and on the whole, I like being here. You know, besides the things that made me start looking.

    How do you convince yourself that you can actually be the person you’re selling yourself to be in interviews? How can you be sure it’s time to move on?

    1. Sara without an H*

      Oh, Eh, this is so, so normal. It might help if you remind yourself that the mere act of interviewing doesn’t commit you to anything. You already have a job that is OK, but not great, and you’re just looking at another opportunity.

      Try shifting the focus to what you want to get from the interview, rather than the impression you are making (“the person you’re selling yourself to be”). Remember, interviewing is a two-way process. Do some research on the company and prepare some questions in advance on things you really want to know about the job. Remember — they may be interviewing you, but you are also interviewing them.

      I frequently steer people to the AAM archives. (No, Alison isn’t paying me.) Spend some time there looking at interview topics.

      Good luck!

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      How do you convince yourself that you can actually be the person you’re selling yourself to be in interviews?

      I don’t think there’s an easy solution for that. I’ve been told for almost two decades how amazing my work is (in areas I was not trained to be in during schooling), and I still feel imposter syndrome. I don’t know that you can just make it go away.

      How can you be sure it’s time to move on?

      Again, I don’t know if you can ever be sure. There have been times I’ve left a job I was comfortable in and could have stayed at for years, and I’ve thought “That was definitely the right move,” and other times when I’ve thought “Ugh. I probably should have just stayed.” Unfortunately, there’s no way to know the future.

      I wish I had better (or more comforting) answers for you.

  40. Moving to Australia*

    Hello! I appreciate all the answers last week to my post about moving to Australia. It’s now official! Moving at the begining of June! Anyone have any advice for Australia CVs or job interviews? Do I need to put an objective on my CV? I’m probably going to get a virtual phone number and apply before we move.

    1. Ismis*

      I haven’t been job hunting in a while but some friends asked me to proof their CVs and adding an objective looks like it’s a matter of preference or maybe even industry (these were admin/analysis roles). I think the standard is contact details at the top, a quick synopsis (I am a great because XYZ and can do ABC), then employment history, then qualifications. Try to keep it to 2 pages.

      For contact details, I would just put name, email and phone number.

      Best of luck with the move!

      1. Moving to Australia*

        Thank you! I appreciate it! I’ll probably end up with an admin position. I’ve done admin positions in the past. The synopsis is going to be difficult to write, but good to know about. I do not currently have one. I’m also trying to get into health care admin or public health. I have a degree in both but wasn’t able to get a job in either.

        1. Ismis*

          The ones I’ve seen are along the lines of: “I am a client focused professional with 10 years of experience in health care and public health administration.” and then a few more lines on what your key skills/interests are. Almost like a mini cover letter, but not tailored to a specific position.

          Oh – and you probably know but Australia uses British English spelling, e.g. colour instead of color, and dates are in the format DD/MM/YYYY.

          1. Moving to Australia*

            Thank you! That example helps. I did know about the spelling and the date, but I did neither when updating my resume earlier. I will change that thank you.

            1. Ismis*

              No worries!

              (Get used to hearing that a lot – I’m not from Australia originally; I think it’s the first phrase all foreigners pick up :))

    2. Twinkle*

      Congratulations! I didn’t offer any advice last week as I’m not in Melbourne (hopefully I’m remembering the right part and that was where you said you’d be moving to) but I’m an Aussie and happy to offer my 2c re hiring practices.

      A couple of things – using objectives in CVs is very industry dependent – what industry are you in, and you may get more detailed advice? Also, we’re not so fussy about the “keep CVs to 2 pages” rule that seems common in the US. Obviously it depends on your level of experience, but many people have CVs that are 3 pages.

      For interviews, I don’t know that a lot is different except that thank you notes following interviews are not a thing in Australia. (Just the thought sounds so strange to me!) Do the interview and say thanks at the end then don’t contact the interviewers – they’ll get in touch if/when required.

      1. Moving to Australia*

        Thank you! You remember correctly. We are moving to Melbourne. I’m trying to get into public health or health care administration. Preferably long term care, but at this point, I just want something related to health. If I’m not getting jobs, I’ll probably end up in recruiting or receptionist since I have experience in both. I have a degree with public health and health care administration, but I’m currently hiring construction workers for a living because I couldn’t find a job in the fields.

        It sounds like I need to completely change a resume to a CV, that is my project for this weekend. Defenently going to lengthen it. I don’t have enough work history for 3 pages. I have been writing thank you notes, so I will make sure to not do that. Thank you!

  41. Sick of the slurp*

    I sit in a cube farm in a very quiet, rather confined room. We cannot have headphones of any kind, although we can wear earplugs.

    My coworker on the other side of the cube wall from me drinks soup every day for lunch. He also always gets lunch between 1 and 2 pm so I’m always in the office. And he slurps it every time. Big, smacky slurps.

    The other day I was having a conversation with another coworker and kept getting distracted by his loud slurping noises. I finally got frustrated and asked him to “please try to eat your soup without slurping.”

    He did, but seemed pretty hurt about it. I’m wondering if I should have let it go. Some of my other coworkers and I joke about noisy eating because our office is so quiet but this guy is pretty introverted.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      This is hard because in my opinion, neither of you are really “wrong” and it’s the crappy office setup that’s pitting the two of you against each other. Slurping is kind of subjective. I’ve had long debates with (crazy) people about whether it’s “rude” to eat an apple in hand versus slicing it up in an open office, or type too loudly, sigh a lot, chew nuts at their desk, get up “too often” or walk behind someone … personally I feel it’s not reasonable to expect people to maintain library silence 8 hours a day in the place where they’re working and eating, but I blame our office set up, not the people.

        1. Dollis Hill*

          Actually I’ve always been taught that slurping soup and drinks is extremely bad manners, akin to chewing with your mouth open and clattering your cutlery against your plate.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            It’s just not a good argument to get into, what is “objectively bad manners” because it’s different to different people (especially things like how much plate scraping is a problem). It’s better to own your own feelings and request a change versus trying to make a moral argument like they should have known better. In this case, I think depending on tone, what Sick of the slurp said sounds okay, in that they did say please and it was a direct request, as long as everyone was able to get past it. I just wouldn’t want everyone in my office to start coming @ each other with all their petty annoyances claiming that it’s “rude” to do these things. Glass houses, etc. And it sounds very tough for multiple people to share a space without making any annoying noises especially if its the norm to eat at your desk. Shared spaces require us to live and let live, unfortunately.

          2. Wishing You Well*

            Slurping is bad manners in the U.S. but expected in some other countries.
            Good manners are like good real estate – location, location, location. :)

          3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

            There’s a lot of cultural variation there, but at least in US table manners, slurping soup is considered quite rude.

            1. Dollis Hill*

              It’s certainly considered rude in the U.K. too, and most of Europe as far as I am aware! I think OP was definitely right to say something, especially as it was affecting their conversation and not just an irritation.

        2. INeedANap*

          Could this be cultural? I know that someone loudly slurping soup would be felt as kinda rude and gross among my circles. A quiet sip, fine, no one expects silence while eating – but an actual sluuurp, that was clearly audible from a few feet away? I’d be distracted by that too.

    2. Tara S.*

      As long as you aren’t an asshole about it, those comments are fine imo. I was using gum to last between meals at one internship and had no idea I was annoying the crap out of my fellow intern until it was brought up. Yeah, it was embarrassing, but I’d rather have know than just kept driving him up the wall not on purpose.

        1. Tara S.*

          LOL, it was the year between HS and college, so what actually happened was I was googling him to find out more about him and found his Twitter, where there was a recent tweet that said “if this other other intern pops her gum ONE MORE TIME I swear to God…” I wasn’t popping my gum, but I also had not been thinking about if anyone else could hear me, and my chewing was rather…indelicate. Lessons learned: be very aware of how you chew gum in public (or in my case, mostly don’t chew gum in public); and also, don’t internet stalk your coworkers. It doesn’t end well and also just no. So in my case it was more just…growing up.

          1. WellRed*

            She’s sooo unaware and is otherwise a tactful and well mannered person who happens to be 41 and snaps cracks and pops.

    3. Kathenus*

      In reading your post, and the comments thus far, I have a slightly different take. There could certainly be differences in culture or upbringing on whether or not this is rude or not, but that’s not really the core of the issue. The crux is that it’s distracting in a specific work environment due to the layout of the cube farm. So even if the behavior isn’t considered inappropriate or rude by the person doing it, or others, since it is affecting you there’s no problem in politely addressing it. My read of this is that it’s been bothering you but you haven’t said anything, and that when you did you might have said it in a frustrated or more snappy way, versus as a more neutral request. That’s understandable and human if it happened, but it also could be why he reacted the way he did. So maybe a separate conversation could help – “I’m sorry I snapped at you the other day about the soup. Cube farms are challenging because everyone’s so close together. I should have just asked you earlier if you wouldn’t mind trying to eat more quietly instead of bottling it up to where I spoke out of frustration.’

    4. Meredith Brooks*

      I think neither of you are wrong, per se and understandably you were frustrated, but you likely embarrassed your coworker (potentially in front of others) over something that is not a big deal. It would have been kinder to ask him (preferably out of earshot of others) if he could sip his soup more quietly because it was distracting to you. Although you but a “please try” in front of your words, you essentially demanded he eat his soup without slurping and gave him no recourse but to be possibly offended, humiliated, and / or defensive about an activity that he will now have to be very self-conscious about.

      1. Lilysparrow*

        If you have to be self-conscious in order to eat without making loud noises, then I say a little self-consciousness is a fine thing. One might call it “self-awareness.”

    5. Not So NewReader*

      ugh. Well okay, you weren’t terrible and you didn’t beat him up with words.

      I have a rule that has helped me. The rule goes like this- I know the things that get to me after a while. So if I wait until I am ticked, then I have waited to long to say something. See, the waiting too long is on me. In your story here the soup slurping is on him.

      Maybe it is best to let it go at this point. But it could be that you’d want to go over and apologize for HOW you said it. “I could have framed that in a more polite way.” If you choose, you might be able to lessen the sting by saying, “If I am doing something without realizing and it bothers you, please feel free to tell me.” This might do a little something to level the playing field.
      And going forward, just privately vow not to wait so long before saying something.

    6. Lilysparrow*

      Nobody likes to get a request like that, no matter how neutrally you word it. And introverted folks tend to have a particular dread of accidentally calling attention to themselves or having people secretly think poorly of them.

      You made a reasonable request, and he had an understandable feeling about it.

      No harm, no foul, just awkward.

  42. Fortitude Jones*

    I just wanted to share some good news about my job search that I’ve been keeping pretty close to the vest (I really need to make some friends outside of my job, lol) – I had two phone interviews this week for Proposal Writer/Manager positions and one was just scheduled for Monday! I’m so excited about this because I’ve never had this much interest in my entire nine year career, lol. For every six applications I submit, I get a callback and/or email – this lets me know that I’m finally applying Alison’s advice on resumes and cover letters correctly because I certainly don’t have the experience for these positions. I’ve only been a PM for a year and three months!

    I officially withdrew my app for consideration from a job I spoke to yesterday – the HR rep’s tone during salary discussion was incredibly offputting. She asked what I needed to make in order for me to leave my current position, and I simply asked what they had budgeted for the role. She tried to volley the question back to me, but I didn’t want to throw out an answer so as not to potentially lowball myself or shoot too high, so I threw the question back at her again very politely asking, “What is the salary range for the position?” She finally told me what it was, and was extremely snarky about it as if me asking what the heck they were willing to pay was a completely unreasonable request. I was really turned off because just the day before I had a phone screen with an incredibly delightful HR rep who asked the same question, and when I asked what their range was for the PM position I applied for, she gladly gave me the answer (it was between 24-34k more than what I currently make). I don’t know why people bring up salary on the phone if they’re going to be cagey about it – just say what you’re willing to pay! Drop the cloak and dagger stuff – it’s annoying.

    Anyway, I’m still applying and keeping my fingers crossed that I can find a new position that fits the kind of work I’d like to perform, will pay me market rate (they underpay PM’s at my current company), and will let me work from home on non-ship days. Fingers crossed.

    1. The New Wanderer*

      I think withdrawing from the position with the snarky HR person is a good call – if she is taking it that badly that you want to know how much the position pays (like it’s her money), that doesn’t bode well for working there. I never understand that attitude. I’ve had HR people and recruiters effectively refuse to tell me the salary range but they’ve never done it in a rude way, they’re almost apologetic sounding if anything.

      Good luck with the other interviews!

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Thank you! Yeah, I wasn’t too invested in this job, and when she was going into detail about what the role would actually require, I was even less enthusiastic – the salary piece ended up being the nail in the coffin. It would be twice the amount of work I have now with people management elements thrown into the mix (though I’d have no real managerial authority) for not much more than what I currently make – yeah, no.

    2. SunshineOnMyShoulder*

      Best wishes! I’ve seen lots of postings for proposal managers recently, and the Glassdoor estimates on them have a fluctuation >$50k, so there isn’t any way to know a range without asking!

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Exactly! And thank you. The salaries for these roles are all over the place depending on the industries (and sometimes fluctuate within the same industry), so I need employers to be transparent, or at least not be smart alecks when I ask them what they’re willing to pay.

        1. Kat in VA*

          Yep – in the DC area, a seasoned executive assistant can make anywhere between $35k and $120k and I’m not even exaggerating. And the salaries are not tied to the company size or number of execs – that lowest number was with a good-sized government contractor and had FIVE C-suite execs with full responsibility! (By which I mean calendaring, meeting notes, travel, expenses, the whole shebang.)

  43. Nicotene*

    Feeling really bad about my job after only being here for seven months. I’m desperate to start job searching but I’m trying to at least get to one year, with the understanding that even that is a crappy tenure – but hoping it’s a little more justifiable than less time. I don’t think there’s been a month I’ve been here that I haven’t been desperate to start searching :(

    1. Nicotene*

      It’s not that it’s an abusive job or anything, but it has turned out to be a big step back for me, career-wise – I went from decision maker to stooge – and there’s a lot of organizational dysfunction that renders my work kind of meaningless. It also turns out some of the perks I was counting on didn’t materialize. Unsurprisingly, morale is low here which doesn’t help, and there’s a lot of turnover.

      1. Nicotene*

        But my career feels very precarious (it’s kind of a niche field, and I don’t have many hard skills to recommend myself) – I feel like the slightest miss-step will have me out on the street with no ability to get back on the ladder, even if I hope that’s not actually accurate.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I would just search now. Job searches take time, and if it’s not the right position for you, then you can just say that in interviews. Unless you have a string of short tenures on your resume, it shouldn’t matter.

      1. Nicotene*

        I think I get paranoid after reading this blog so much. Everybody seems to be a rock star employee making awesome career moves, and here I am screwing up some whole progression.

        1. Amber Rose*

          Nah. If you read through these Friday threads, there’s a bunch of us who are just average and fumbling our way along as best as we can.

    3. Shark Whisperer*

      I totally sympathize. I have also been at my job about seven months. I thought I was doing great for the first five, but lately everything seems terrible. :(

  44. WRabbits*

    Advice on cultivating references strategically?

    My current position is a career change for me. I have been here for a little over 2 years, and I am planning to start up a job search in about a year. Since this is a new career, the only relevant references I have are from my current job. But I can’t really use any of them because I don’t want anyone to know I am searching. The company also has a culture of oversharing, and I’m not confident that people will be discreet.

    Previously I was self-employed, and I used some of my clients as references to get my current job. I guess I could go back to them, but I would like to have some new ones.

    I currently volunteer at an archive, and I think I could ask the head archivist for a reference.

    If I volunteer for a professional organization on a committee or working group, would it be appropriate to ask the committee chair to be a reference? If I look for a volunteer position with the aim of ultimately getting a reference, would a social organization or charity with a volunteer coordinator be better than a professional organization? A professional organization would be more relevant to my career, but I don’t know if it would be weird to start asking people for references.

    If I take a French class, can I use the teacher as a reference? I am mid-career, so I don’t know if this would be appropriate, but I could use the language skill on my resume.

    Any other suggestions? I have about a year and so I want to start building relationships now. I feel kind of selfish about doing this, but I do intend to contribute significantly at whatever activity I end up doing.

    1. Oxford Comma*

      Well, I would use the teacher/professor only as a last result, unless you’re doing significant work with/for them.

      The others all sound fine to me. As with any reference, you would ask for permission, share your resume, the job posting, etc. In some cases, you may have to explain what you want them to speak to, but my guess is for the examples you listed, that it won’t really be an issue.

    2. Coverage Associate*

      Yes, it’s appropriate to ask a volunteer committee chair to be a reference. Generally, it’s better to have references who are closely aligned with the profession you’re applying in, but it doesn’t always work that way.

      Will French be relevant to the positions you’re applying for? I would go with volunteer work-related references (even volunteer work not directly related to the profession) over an instructor, unless language skill is very relevant.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      You can’t let anyone know at your current workplace that you’re looking? I can understand your supervisor, but you don’t have any co-workers you trust?

      I think a current co-worker and then past clients (or past supervisors, if you’ve had any) would be a good combination.

  45. stay or go?*

    I’ve had a weird work week. I did not get a job I really wanted, and so my attitude at work was pretty poor. Things came to head with my boss when he called me out on my attitude, so we had a come to jesus meeting and cleared the air on a lot of things. I got a schedule adjustment I had been wanting to ask for for awhile. So, I’m kinda resigned to sticking around in this dysfunctional environment for while longer. I have a very short commute, excellent time off, good pay for the area, and a private office. I guess that’s the price I’m willing to pay for low level toxicity? Anyone else looking at similar trade offs?

    1. Happy Lurker*

      Ugh, yes. A few times. I feel your pain and hope you can keep yourself in a good space while you muddle through.

      1. valentine*

        Leave when you find a better job.

        Agreeing not to kick you in the teeth one day a week in no way mitigates the overall teeth-kicking. In fact, it’s worse and it’s literal torture: The alleged reprieve lulls you into a false sense of security. Fly and be free.

  46. TCO*

    I just want to give a shout-out to Alison’s book, “Managing to Change the World.” I just started my first director-level job in nonprofits and purchased her book right away. As a very longtime reader of AAM I wasn’t sure how much new content there would be in the book, but there’s TONS, and it’s also organized into in-depth chapters (with lots of practical tools like worksheets) that are much more comprehensive than what an advice-column format can really support. It’s formatted really differently than her most recent AAM book, which I also have.

    Her book has already influenced some of my work in my first few weeks on the job and I know I’ll be returning to it again and again as new scenarios (like hiring) come up. Adding her books to what I read here has given me a robust AAM-style approach to my job.

    Thank you, Alison! I’d encourage any manager, whether in nonprofits or not, to pick up “Managing to Change the World.”

    1. Dealtwiththis*

      I read this blog all the time and somehow had never heard of this one. just ordered it. Thanks for the rec!

    2. Middle Manager*

      I’m not in the non-profit world, but I love Alison’s advice so much. I’ve been wondering how transferable it might be. For reference, I’m in state government. Any thoughts?

      1. TCO*

        I think it’s really transferable! Some of the examples are pretty non-profit-specific (for instance, an example about a fundraising event) but the principles of good management shine through those and would apply to your work.

  47. Ziggy*

    I applied for a job with a well known nonprofit. I interviewed with them and told them my salary range and experience level. The interviewer said that they couldn’t match my needs with what the position offered, so they would understand if I didn’t want to continue. I continued, but after thinking about it after the interview, I thanked them and said I would withdraw my candidacy because it wasn’t the best fit. The interviewer encouraged me to apply for a higher level position that matched my skills better when it opened because that would be a better fit.

    Well! Months later, a higher level position opened today. Should I mention in my cover letter that I previously applied but withdrew my candidacy, but felt like this position was a better fit? I’m 90% sure the same person will interview me. Or should I just pretend I never applied and interviewed before?

    1. OtterB*

      I think if you had a conversation about it before, you should mention it. Say something like the previous role wasn’t the right fit for you but you really liked the organization. Also, I think it would be reasonable to email the previous interviewer and mention that, as the two of you discussed, you are applying for the higher level position and have sent in your application through the regular channels.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Yes, do this! It sounds like you withdrew on good terms and it was pretty clear that it was a level/salary mismatch, not bad fit or wrong experience, so you would probably have an advantage by reminding them that you’ve already talked and stressing that you’re still very interested in working there now that this better matching position is available.

        1. valentine*

          I wouldn’t mention the previous role, just that you’re following Jane’s advice to apply for this one.

  48. Fishsticks*

    Does anyone have any suggestions for job boards besides Indeed and Idealist? I’m looking to move cross-country to California and am trying to widen my search as much as possible. I’m primarily looking for research assistant positions in non-profits or thinktank esque organizations, but am open to any sort of semi-entry level assistant position that I can find. I’m willing to pay money for a job board if needed. Any advice would be helpful!

    1. NotAMadScientist*

      Going Global Jobs is a nice database, put in california under city and US and a keyword and it might get you somewhere.

      If you are an alum anywhere check for alumni resources. 2 of my alma maters have their own databases.

      Also check your professional society’s and clubs in your field. A lot of those host job listings somewhere.

    2. Tara S.*

      HigherEdJobs and other academia job boards might have leads. I would also give a cursory glance at LinkedIn and just a plain old google.

    3. OtterB*

      Depends on what sort of research assistant, but maybe the boards of a relevant professional association, e.g. American Psychological Association, American Educational Research Association, etc.?

      1. Fishsticks*

        I’m looking more political focused but I didn’t think to check associations. thank you!

    4. Où est la bibliothèque?*

      Maybe look at job sites specifically for higher ed? (higheredjobs.com, ChronicleVitae)

      They definitely have research assistant and admin postings, and California is particularly university-heavy.

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      I know this isn’t very efficient, but I’ve sometimes found it helpful to look for specific organizations you admire and would like to work for, and then just create a bookmarks folder full of their employment opportunities or career webpages and check those periodically.

  49. Hidden Trout*

    I was offered a job this week!
    After 2 cycles of searching (similar to academia, there’s a finite hiring season) I was offered a place that is a terrific fit and perfectly fits my geographic requirements. Through the whole process, I kept checking AAM at each stage, getting answers to all my questions and –most importantly–the confidence to hold my head high, treat interviews as a two-way street, and even to negotiate an 8% higher starting salary. Thank you to Alison and the commentariat. I really could not have done it without all of you!

    At several points I lost all hope that I was hirable, fell into a deep depression, and wondered if I would ever be able to share good news. I made it to the final 2 candidates a whopping 4 times before being selected, but eventually, everything came together. Best wishes to everyone still in the midst of a job search!

  50. Persephone Mulberry*

    I GOT THE JOB OFFER!!!!!!!!! Two questions, before I accept:

    1) Negotiate, or no? The job was listed at “up to $50K, DOE” and I was offered $45K. I had decided $45 would be my bottom line, but is it worth asking for a couple thousand more? I’m having a hard time finding comparable salary data for this particular role (supply chain coordinator, emphasis on document control not scheduling, although I will be cross trained to do both). I bring a lot of transferable skills but no direct experience in this industry.

    2) When I applied for the job, I was still a temp, and I didn’t disclose during the interview that I had since been made permanent (less than three weeks prior). Is this going to look really bad? Do I need to address it prior to them completing their background check?

    1. AliceW*

      1) Hell, yes. Always ask for more. The worst they can do is say no.
      2) I wouldn’t think so. In my experience, a background check is more focused on a criminal and financial check (e.g. bankruptcies).

    2. Tara S.*

      1. HELL YES ALWAYS ASK FOR MORE. Look at Alison’s guide for wording, but absolutely ask for more.

      2. That shouldn’t matter at all. Background checks are typically more for “do they have an arrest record?”

    3. Jess*

      No idea about #2, but definitely encourage asking if it’s possible to go higher on the salary. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes they can’t do salary but they can do something else. But one of the big reasons why men get paid more than women is that they ask more often, and one of the reasons why women and men are sometimes treated differently for asking is that it’s less expected from women. So my personal belief is that every time a woman asks, it helps the cause of pay equity and equal treatment for all women, regardless of the response that particular time.

      1. Spool of Lies*

        I recently read a great article on The Cut that explored the widespread assumption that women don’t ask for higher salaries or raises. More recent research shows that, in fact, women do ask for more money. Employers just say no. The article is called “Actually, Women Do Ask for Money. They Just Don’t Get It.” by Otegha Uwagba.

          1. valentine*

            I think it was Deborah Tanner who wrote employers offer women more leave and flexibility, but just keep throwing money at men until they accept the job.

    4. Not Me*

      Question 2 – I would let them know when you fill out the background check form. You’ll have to sign off on the information you’re telling them to check. I don’t see any harm is saying “Oh, by the way, during the application and interview process my position at X Company was changed to permanent from temporary. Do you want me to list the time spent as a temp under the Temp Agency or X Company?”

      It’s not a strange or weird situation, it could slow down the background check though if they don’t have the correct info.

    5. BRR*

      1) Yes!
      2) If you were previously employed through a temp agency I would let them know. If it was just your title, I’d probably just say “my title has changed since I applied, do I need to update anything?”

    6. TL*

      1. I would absolutely negotiate, just because I think you almost always should. Ask for more than your ideal (let’s say $50k) and if they give you 47k then, woo hoo! I would say something like, “I’m very excited to receive this offer. I was hoping for somewhere around $50k. Is that possible?” Then just let them respond.

      2. I wouldn’t say anything about that. I don’t think it’s a big deal.

      Congrats, btw!!

    7. Anonymous Educator*

      Definitely ask for more. They’re not going to rescind the offer if you ask for $47K or $49K.

    8. Persephone Mulberry*

      Ooookay, I split the difference and rounded up, and asked for $48K. (Should I have shot the moon and asked for the full $50? I don’t know. Baby steps.)

      That said, I am KICKING myself for not asking the magic “what sets an exceptional performer apart from an adequate one” question, because in hindsight, that might have given a little “oh, that’s definitely going to be me!” boost of confidence. Or it might have been a reality check, but either way.

      1. Lilysparrow*

        Assuming they meet your ask, you can always ask your new manager in your initial meetings.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      1) Not sure how this meshes with your setting, but I was offered a temp job where the pay was x. I countered with I have schooling and Other Thing that I bring to the table, I was thinking more in the range of y-z. They raised their offer 25% and it was in the y-z range, I accepted. I think that reminding them why the extra pay and giving them an alternative range to chose from helped. It also saved me a lot of worry because what if they said a number that was less than the exact number I had named? ugh. I picked a range where I would be happy and I still thought that they would think was reasonable. So in your case, I probably would not have picked 50k as being the upper end, I would have chosen something a little short of that.

      2) I am not sure why it would look bad, three weeks ago you had no way of knowing if they were going to hire you or not. It might actually be a bargaining chip in your favor. If it bothers you, I think I would just say, “For purposes of the BG check, I wanted you to know I was very recently made permanent at my current job.”

    10. PB*

      No advice on no. 2, but yes, definitely negotiate! If they can give you an extra 1 or 2 thousand, that would be pretty awesome, right?

  51. News*

    What do you do if you discover one of your hires is one of the kids in this recent scandal? Yes they went to the university they said they did, but they cheated to get in.

    1. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I think it’s a little debatable how culpable the kids were although there are likely greater and lesser degrees of culpability. I imagine their college grades would reflect their true abilities so you could evaluate them on that. Other students also get into schools based on factors other than academics like arts or sports. Also, teenager brains aren’t fully formed so blackballing someone for life for cheating on the SAT seems unfair.

      1. Bostonian*

        Unless they cheated to get those grades, too… (the ones who knew about what their parents did)

        This is tough. I think I would have a heightened sense of looking for signs of untrustworthiness. I think the quality of this person’s work quality would factor into it, too.

        1. Wishing You Well*

          Yes, this.
          Watch for performance issues for now. However, if the new hire becomes the focus of a lot of negative attention, the company will have to decide if keeping the new hire is worth it.

          If college enrollment is bribe-able, then grades, tests and finals are bribe-able, too. Really discouraging.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Oooh, that’s tough. Some of those kids were pretty complicit, but some of them allegedly didn’t know what their parents were doing, or to what extent. “I lied on my application about being an athlete and posed for fake photos” is one thing. “I was allowed extra time to take the SAT,” from someone who didn’t realize the “proctor” was changing their scores after the test, is quite another.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        In some cases I really don’t understand how the kid didn’t realize that getting a disability accommodation wasn’t flouting the rules – if they’d never heard of having a learning disability before?

        1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

          There’s probably a middling area: “it’s against the rules, but everyone does it.” Half the graduating class in my high school fudged the required service learning hours, everyone knew it, and it didn’t ping my dishonesty alarms at all until I was older.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          I imagine it was made out to be a little white lie. (“Honey, just tell the doctor you have trouble concentrating. All it will do is give you more time to take the SAT. Who is that going to hurt?”) And I imagine most/all of those kids were used to being treated a little better than everyone else, and/or thought “everybody does it.” This doesn’t make it okay, it just indicates some of them probably didn’t realize exactly how egregious the situation was.

          1. Arielle*

            Yup. I went to a very expensive private high school and there were more kids in the extended time testing room than the regular one.

            1. That Girl From Quinn's House*

              Same at my public one. They’re the same kind of kids who give vague ADHD symptoms to the doctor for an Adderall script in college. It’s a lie, but a common socially acceptable one.

    3. this ain't a scene*

      I think it’s only relevant if they lied about the credentials that got them hired, like if they listed a college degree they didn’t have. But cheating to get into a school… I don’t know if that’s relevant, and I don’t know if it’s something your employer should penalize; penalties should come from the appropriate locations and authorities.

      1. pleaset*

        Cheating to do anything big is relevant, particularly if it’s in the recent past.

        Someone who knowingly cheated four or five years ago on something important to our evaluation of them (which school they went to)? I’d fire them. It speaks very strongly to character and judgement. Yes, they got the education but they’re also scammers.

        Now at least some of the kids did not know – other people cheated on their behalf. That’s different and I’d let it go. But keep an eye on the news and if it turns out they knew, they’d be out.

        1. this ain't a scene*

          I think, in any circumstance, if you’re holding someone to something that happened 1/4th of their life ago, it’s better to give them a chance to explain and discuss it, rather than dismiss them outright. People grow. No one should go around with an A on their chest forever.

          1. pleaset*

            There’s an interesting contrast between what I wrote: “recent past”
            And what you say here: “forever.”

            That aside, even if it’s a fourth of their life – if it’s less than around 6 or 8 years ago, for an adult, it’s relevant. Cheating on one of the most important aspects of life in that time frame to get ahead and only coming clean when caught? Fxck them. They SHOULD go around with a bad mark for a few years – not explain it way right after they’ve been caught.

            And this crowd in particular won’t starve or be homeless – Screw them if they knew what they were doing.

            2. Humble Schoolmarm*

              If they were adults 6-8 years ago, I would probably agree, but in this case, the cheating most likely happened when they were 16-18 and, more importantly, their authority figures were telling them that this was all perfectly okay. I would keep a much closer eye on them, sure, but firing? Not for teenage complicity with adults who should clearly have known better.

        2. That Girl From Quinn's House*

          I’ve worked with teenagers- in much lower stakes situations than this one- and one thing that’s very important to remember is that controlling (abusive) parents don’t suddenly back off and observe appropriate boundaries the minute their child turns 18. Sometimes, you have to step back and look not at the actions of the young person, but the power dynamic they’re trapped in, for context. By piling on, sometimes you’re just reinforcing the abuse dynamic of their parents.

      2. Amy Farrah Fowler*

        I think it definitely says a lot about that person’s integrity and honesty though. I wouldn’t want to work with someone who was a liar and a cheater. However, I also agree with Rusty above that some of these students were not aware of what their parents were doing. It is such an unfortunate situation.

    4. Marion Q*

      I’m a recent grad myself, so I don’t really have the standing to give advice.

      That said, if I were you, I’d look at whether the kid was involved in the deception. Based from what I read so far, it seems that some of them had no idea that their parents were bribing people. Others, however, were deeply involved: getting cc’d on the emails, asking for “help” with failed classes, etc. If the new hire falls into the former category, I don’t think it automatically reflect badly on them – but maybe pay more attention to their work ethics and stuff?

      If it’s the latter though…

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Even the universities involved seem to be taking this on a case-by-case basis. But I’d hope that if your company had previously shown favoritism towards candidates from “top schools,” you can use this to make the case that that’s not really getting you what you paid for.

        1. this ain't a scene*

          This is a really good point. It’s an opportunity to push back on only hiring people from specific schools.

          1. Rusty Shackelford*

            Although someone’s going to say that if they actually graduated from those schools, they’ve still got the skills you want.

            1. Sloan Kittering*

              Yeah but so do many other schools’ graduates, and I think this scandal has shown that there’s a lot of ways kids are getting access to these schools that don’t start with “being the best candidate.”

      2. Lilith*

        Is there some list floating around with these students names on it? I admit this story is pretty complex & I haven’t read everything.

    5. Detective Amy Santiago*

      They cheated to get in, but did they have help passing classes/graduating or did they actually do the work?

      1. Lily Rowan*

        I would basically assume they cheated in school, too, just because if you have the money it’s easier to pay someone to write the paper than to write it yourself, even if you are fully capable of doing the work.

        But I’m pretty cynical at this point.

      2. medium of ballpoint*

        You also have to think about whether a degree is required for their job. It’s a possibility the universities involved might yank graduates’ degrees, which could potentially be a license/compliance issue in some industries.

      3. Ajana*

        Loads of students cheat to get into university.

        Living/working in China, I see thousands of students have expats write admission essays, complete forms, write bogus references.

        And then when at that foreign university, they get someone else to write essays (BIG business in the UK and the US with networks just for Chinese student – very well organized). There are also teams of exam-takers to take exams in their place, with dodgy ID cards that invigilators are too PC to question.

        A blind eye is turned (foreign students typically pay more in tuition so more $$ for tune institution), but when it is noticed professors are usually told to shut up, ignore and give a passing grade. Occasionally a big scandal comes out about admissions cheating, essay cheating and exam cheating, but it disappears and it’s back to business as usual. This one hitting the headlines involves celebrities – easy targets, while the ones involve foreign students so there is the fear of being called racist so they are typically covered up.

        Come across many returning Chinese students, with freshly minted degrees from English-speaking countries, who can’t speak a full sentence in English let alone write one. Cheating? Hell yeah, and the universities are complicit because they are in it for the money.

    6. Not A Manager*

      Who cheated and what kind of cheating? If Mommy made a big contribution, or even if she paid for the dean’s nephew’s dental work, I think that’s different than if YOUR HIRE actually sat for a test knowing that someone else was going to change the answers for her.

      I wouldn’t give a job to someone who knowingly and actively cheated in such a major way. I might give a job to someone who otherwise did well, but whose family cheated on their behalf although they didn’t actively participate in it.

    7. JessicaTate*

      At this stage of the game, I’d be more interested to hear how he/she is thinking about the situation now. I don’t know if it’s a fair conversation to have as a manager, but I suspect it would tell me a LOT about the person’s current character and mindset to hear how they are framing this whole situation, what they’re taking away from it, etc. Is there still a tone of entitlement around it all and upset about parents getting punished? Are they “meh” about it all? Is there real concern, remorse, or mortification? Is there perspective about why it happened and how they’re not going to help continue this kind of elitist, unethical behavior in their own future.

      Basically, I’d want to know if this person has grown up / realizes the problems of their parents’ (and possibly their own) ways, or if they think it was OK/good to have parents who would buy your way into whatever you wanted / they felt was best for you. It’s less about their culpability at the time, and more about what kind of person they are now. I don’t know if it’s fireable — but it’d tell me a heck of a lot about their character.

      2. Jerry Vandesic*

        It likely that they would decline to discuss the subject on the advice of the lawyer. If they are smart (maybe not, which is why they are in this situation).

    8. CatCat*

      Do you *know* they cheated to get in? If so, I’d let them go. I’d be worried about their integrity on the job and that they would fudge their work.

      If you don’t actually know, IDK that you need to ignore the elephant in the room. Dishonesty is a big deal. They know this is all over the news. “As you know, the scandal with XYZ University is all over the news. As far as you know, were you admitted to the school on your own merit?”

      Will you get an honest answer? Uncertain! But here’s what you’ve got if they say yes:

      They didn’t know about their parents’ scheming. That’s a possibility and certainly something the prosecutors have said is true about some of the kids. They’re going to make it or not on their own merit in the workplace anyway.

      They’re a lying liar who lies. But if the fact comes out during further investigation or trial, they have now also lied to you about it. Fire them.

    9. Jess*

      If *they* knowingly cheated, and you know that conclusively… this is their time to experience the consequences.

      If you’re not sure about the extent of their awareness/knowing participation, I might start by asking them how they think you should handle it, and why. That will likely tell you a lot, regardless of their answer.

    10. Campfire Raccoon Horking Potatosalad*

      They’re hired, right? Already working?

      What is their performance like? How is their attitude? Are they hard workers and contribute well? Does the cheating have any bearing on their current position?

      1. pleaset*

        ” Does the cheating have any bearing on their current position?”

        JFC – what kind of organization should hire someone how cheated recently, only came clean when caught, and hasn’t paid any consequences other than bad publicity.

        I’m all for forgiving someone for stuff, including people convicted of actual crimes. But after they face some degree of consequences. Not straightaway, just a few years after the incident, and as soon as they are caught.

        1. Campfire Raccoon Horking Potatosalad*

          I think most people wouldn’t usually want to hire someone who has a history of lying and cheating, but I wonder how much these kids knew of their parent’s activities. Even if they knew, how much say did they have? College admissions often start when you’re a minor – they might be in a place of extreme privilege, but maybe not in a place of power. Perhaps they didn’t find out until after the fact, or **eek** this week.

          I am not excusing the cheating at all, but I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

          My company often hires newly released ex-cons and folks who are recently sober. These are people who (in some cases) REALLY messed up their lives and are trying to start over. Many addicts don’t face consequences like jail time, and only seek help when caught by friends and family.

          As a company we judge by their actions as an employee – assuming they aren’t actively using or committing crimes. Don’t these new adults deserve a chance to prove themselves as well?

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            Absolutely but I suspect you put safeguards in place and you don’t put someone directly from bank robber into bank teller who’s being asked to count the cash every night, if you want them to succeed.

          2. pleaset*

            Ex-cons have been punished. It’s great to help them.

            If these kids cheated (that is, were complicit), and you keep them on, as far as I can tell they haven’t really suffered in a meaningful way. It’s very different. Later hire them. Now – in their first or second job out of schooling based on fraud – no, they should go. Keeping them is like letting a thief keep the cash. Nawww.

            So the question is, did they cheat – that is, did they know? If they know, they should face consequences now. Not forever. But something serious now. And that question of if they knew is very different from asking about their performance on the job.

      2. Sloan Kittering*

        I definitely would think twice about having them be part of my nonprofit (since faux nonprofits were part of the scheme) or anything related to the education field. There certainly are jobs where a high degree of personal integrity is a requirement – like, uh, admissions officers.

    11. PB*

      Oooh, this is tough. I’m going to come down on the side of monitor them more closely, but, for now, that’s all.

      Presumably, you hired them for reasons other than just the school they went to. They must have had some decent record of achievement, academically or professionally, and impressed you in the interview. None of that has changed now. And, as others have pointed out, not all of the kids were aware of what was happening. Even if this particular person was, honestly, we all make terrible decisions when we’re 17 or 18. These kids? They were pushed to the terrible decisions by their parents, and it is really hard not to cave to parental pressure at that age, and they were backed by significant money and power.

      None of that is to say that your employee is 100% innocent, but I don’t think it’s enough to take immediate action other than to just keep an eye out.

      1. pleaset*

        Good to consider if they knew – that’s key. And good to emphasize forgiveness.

        But I have to object to this: “we all make terrible decisions when we’re 17 or 18.” I didn’t. Far fewer high-achieving black people can – it’s drilled into us from a young age, and frankly if we slip up, the consequences are way way higher than for kids like these. That’s a fact.

        Yes, consider that kids make mistakes. But kids like those kids – even if they do get canned from their work – that’s nothing compared to what a lot of us would face.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      I don’t think there is a one size fits all answer.
      I know that I would give them credit if they came to me and said, “You are going to read about my parents in the paper, I wanted to tell you directly, so you are aware and if you have any concerns about my work.” Gutsy move and impressive, too.

      Attitude would matter. “Oh I am so embarrassed, this is nothing I stand for or I find acceptable.” VS “Everyone else is doing it. It’s been going on forever.”

      Anything that would show thinking. “I only tell my parents some of my plans, not all of my plans for this very reason here.”

      People who have put some thought into their circumstances say things that are very different from people who have not put any thought into their circumstances.

    13. Elizabeth*

      I’d really love to hear what Alison has to say about this. Would you consider writing in and asking?

  52. Caliopi*

    I am hoping for some advice, a script, or just a reality check. I have been working with my employer for six years. I was up for a promotion, an outside person got it. My department went from all female to pretty much all male except for me, and I’m just feeling down in the dumps for a variety of reasons associated with the change, including getting passed over for the promotion I wanted after about 6 years of excellent performance reviews and above average raises.

    They gave me a raise and a slightly bigger title in lieu of the bigger promotion to keep me, but I’m not really happy here. I’m trying to be, though! I want to stay, but I have career goals that I’m not sure I’ll be able to attain here. I’m on the fence about job searching or sticking it out. I am considering approaching one of the execs who was my boss about a different role for me, with a slightly higher bump in salary (after about eight months since the change). I feel the role would be useful to the organization, and it’s about half of what I’m doing now, though in a less official capacity. It would not be exactly where I wanted to be, but I think it would be a better fit for me and the organization overall. Any advice on how to approach it without sounding like sour grapes. That is what I’m afraid of happening–because I’m NOT wanting to come across as being pouty for having not gotten the big promotion (even, though, yeah, inside I’m still a little pouty, I’ve really given it my all to be professional and supportive of the new structure at work). Advice?

    1. this ain't a scene*

      Can you approach it with your boss as saying “I’ve been here 6 years and done really well and I’m interested growing into this other role”? Because that seems like a natural growth.

      As for staying vs. leaving, I recommend doing a cursory job search to see what’s out there, it can help to see what’s out there and if you like it better than what you have.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah there’s no reason NOT to look around and see what’s out there. Six years is about the time I start getting super restless if I’m not seeing exciting new challenges on the horizon – it makes total sense to me that you’d be thinking “what’s next, and if it’s not here, where is it?” It doesn’t come across as entitled/pouty at all to me. (& TBH, if you got passed over, the company probably took into account that you might leave and decided they could live with that).

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          TBH, if you got passed over, the company probably took into account that you might leave and decided they could live with that

          This. If they wanted to keep you, they would have promoted you – they didn’t. Go explore your options.

    2. BRR*

      It sounds like your organization values you and wants to retain you so I think if you present it as wondering if your role could transform into X it will come off as being mutually beneficial. A key part is that you said it would be useful to your organization.

    3. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      Reframe thinking that leaving because you didn’t get a promotion or advocating for a position that would further your professional goals is being “pouty”; it’s totally normal and should be expected that if you aren’t getting the advancement that you want within your current organization that you’ll look elsewhere. The way you phrased it in your question is fine: “After 8 months at the new position, I realize I’m not very happy with it and I have a suggestion that I think would be a better fit for me and the organization overall.” You don’t need to include an “or else” or in anyway hint that you’re on your way out the door if they say no to the suggestion, but if you want to have a talk about your career goals in a general sense — “My five year plan is to accomplish XYZ and I hope that I’ll be able to achieve that with this company. What are your thoughts?”

  53. Clawfoot*

    I’ve been at my current job now for about 9 months and it’s performance review time. Because I’m new, it doesn’t fully apply to me this year, but my manager wants us to sit down with the document and hash out some objectives and goals for next year. Totally fair. I understand that.

    I just hate doing this. I really do. I understand why it’s necessary, but still. Ugh. Hate.

    My main problem is that my ambitions don’t run toward climbing the corporate ladder. I’m completely uninterested in promotions, becoming a team lead, a manager, a director, a VP, etc. I just want to do my job and do it well. I do like keeping on top of my industry (teapot design) and I want to take courses on cutting-edge teapot design techniques and technologies, and maybe, in a few years, I might be interested in a “SENIOR teapot designer” position, but that’s 5+ years off and aside from that, I’m afraid of being seen as a complacent lump.

    Objectives? Goals? Mostly my goal is to do what I’m told and do it well. I don’t have that much autonomy in my job; I’m assigned projects, and I do them. I’m having trouble coming up objectives and goals that aren’t just “meet all deadlines” and “don’t murder anyone,” which are really just standard operating procedures.

    1. Hold My Cosmo*

      I could have written this–don’t want to manage, prefer to increase my actual job skill set, etc. One of my written objectives for 2019 is to become a more active member of my professional community. I’ve started to actively network, will be attending conferences and talks, and plan to take online classes and pursue a voluntary certification.

      Could something like this apply to you? Bonus if you can ask the company for funding to do those sort of things.

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      I think this is a great opportunity to bring up Alison’s “magic question” again – from your manager’s perspective, what differentiates an exceptional performer in this role from a mediocre or even satisfactory one? What benchmarks would you need to reach in order to be considered for a “senior” title in 3-5 years?

    3. ContemporaryIssued*

      I think in this kind of thing it is perfectly fine to list personal goals on how to improve on how to do your job, not necessarily climb the ladder. Like you can say, “I want to learn more about designing teapots with T-Bot 3000 software, and master that during the next year” instead of “I want to take more responsibility and lead future teapot design projects”. Goals don’t always have to be the type that expand your role, include more responsibility or leadership roles.

    4. cheesesticks and pretzels*

      With some of the courses to keep your skills current, do any of them offer certification? You could maybe set goal to achieve xyz cert in blue teapot painting or something.

      If there are no certs but you want to focus on the continuing education and skills for your position, you can maybe have goal to achieve x=amount of training hours.

      Hope this maybe gives you a start

    5. OtterB*

      Alison answered something like this a while back, though I couldn’t begin to find a pointer. As I recall, she said to emphasize that you wanted to be the strongest individual contributor you could be. I think your points about wanting to keep on top of your industry and cutting-edge techniques make it clear you’re not just a complacent lump. Could you have an objective/goal of preparing yourself to be ready for advanced projects of some kind or another?

    6. Nothemomma*

      I’ve reframed how I think of these meetings. Rather than how to move up the ladder, I frame it as how to get the maximum raise. So with that, your goals are what you outlined here- to be the subject matter expert in xxxx, to take course ABC in teapot design, seminar ABC in teapot technology, survey production documentation library to centralize access and make sure all docs are up to date. Take the things you want to change and carve it out as your own.

    7. Lilysparrow*

      This may or may not apply, but I heard a really neat talk a while back that advised, “instead of asking kids what they want to be when they grow up, ask what kind of problems they want to solve.”

      So if you look at your career path in terms of the type of projects you’re interested in doing more of, or the contribution you want to make to the company, or the problems you really want to address, could that help you come up with goals that aren’t tied to specific job titles or management levels?

      (Now that I type this, I think there’s a post here about this same idea.)

      Because if you are solving high-value problems or working on high-value projects, you’re going to be a high-value employee.

  54. KayEss*

    I’m trying to coach a friend through the application and interview process at the company where I work, and I’m just… super stressed about it. Not because of her—she’s doing great—but I’m terrified that the unfairness of her chronic illness will reveal ugly truths about a place and people I really like.

    Basically, she needs to be able to work from home on at least an as-needed basis, and while the company is set up for a lot of remote collaboration and has fully-remote employees in more senior positions, the entry-level one she’s qualified for is one they strongly prefer to be in-office daily. They sent a bunch of questions to answer before considering an interview (a practice I have a lot of feelings about) and one of them was “are you willing to commute to the [location] office daily?” which I feel is kind of on the same level as “do you have a driver’s license?” in terms of potentially discriminatory questions in this case. (I advised her to answer “yes” and then bring up remote work as an accommodation if she gets an offer… after all, she’s WILLING to commute daily, but not necessarily ABLE.)

    I’m probably over-invested but I really want her to get this job because she’d be really good at it and enjoy it, and she’s been unemployed because of her illness for a long time and in a shitty living situation and and and. Bleh.

    1. KayEss*

      I guess does anyone have any tips I can pass on for how she can advocate for herself? Also any suggestions on how I can reasonably push back if someone (like a boss/director) says something ignorant (like “I can’t believe she deceived us on the pre-interview questions!”), which is basically my nightmare rn?

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Aw that sucks but TBH I don’t find it works very often to try to get “backdoor” work from home if that’s not what the company is looking for. I also find that even if you get some allowance, if it’s not really granted joyfully, it tends not to work out. YMMV, I hope it works out for your friend and is awesome.

        1. valentine*

          She should focus on her skills and work ethic, framing things in terms of what she can, not can’t, do, and reveal only what’s absolutely necessary and, if put on the spot, say she’ll get back to them (while she looks up whether x is (il)legal or mandatory).

          I hope you’ve told her your employer’s rigid on remoting. Sure, you know she’ll do the job well (and perhaps even better, because the lack of commute spares her spoons) and, on paper, remoting is fine, but if your employer values facetime or butts in seats for no good reason, they may devalue even impeccable work from her. It doesn’t look like it’s a good fit and, if she doesn’t know that, you’re doing her a disservice.

          If someone complains about her needing accommodations, you can stand up for her (I hope you’d do this for anyone and building this rep for yourself may decrease jerkfaced comments) and say the position can easily be done remotely and she’ll be in when able. Lead by example: Let them see you have no qualms about it.

      2. anonagain*

        I don’t really understand. Why would you even be talking to a boss or director about your friend’s candidacy at all?

        1. KayEss*

          We’re a small and casual department, and it might legitimately come up in informal conversation… though I’d REALLY prefer it not to, because I don’t want to be involved on that level. The director in particular can be quite blunt regarding her feelings, and while I believe she’s genuinely a good person I can’t be certain that she’s not ignorant about the impact of health as a privilege in hiring and work.

          (Also like… in the course of hiring for these positions, I’ve sat in on a couple interviews where other people on the interview panel were former coworkers or friends of the candidate, which I find kind of weird. I’d personally prefer to recuse myself in that situation, but the industry is small and therefore a bit incestuous so I guess there might legitimately not be enough people to put in the interview otherwise? … and I’m making this sound incredibly shady but it’s actually just a peculiar industry.)

    2. Kathenus*

      Without knowing details of the role itself, the fact that they are asking if candidates are willing to commute to the office daily shows that they want (need?) someone in the office in this role. There are some jobs that can be done partially/fully remote, and others that can’t. There are also, of course, some organizations or managers that just prefer people in the office for some roles but it’s not necessarily needed to perform the functions of the job.

      So if the job needs to be done from the office, it might not be the role for her and I don’t think that asking it in advance is discriminatory if indeed the job requires you to be at the office to be able to perform the core functions. If it’s the latter, then it’s dicier because the question does pose more of a concern that she could be screened out if she answers no. Don’t know the best solution in this instance, not sure if it could be left blank, put something like TBD (either of which could be a red flag to them), but I wouldn’t say yes if that’s not accurate either because lying on an application could be used against her if she were hired and then later said she needed the accommodation for a previously-known condition. Much more complicated in this scenario.

      For me a lot comes down to why the asked the question – does the job need it, or does the manager just prefer it? I think these are two very different situations.

      1. KayEss*

        There’s no part of the job I’m aware of that requires in-office face time. We already do a lot of remote digital collaboration with employees in the same role in offices in other cities, and several people in senior versions of the role are fully remote from home. My sense is that the reason they strongly prefer in-office for the position because it is junior/entry-level, and it’s easier to train/coach and monitor a junior employee when they’re in-office… which is all valid in principle (I’m personally the kind of worker who does MUCH better in an office than working from home, myself, so I get it) but IMO kind of thorny when it comes to “is remote work a reasonable accommodation (in the legal sense) for disability?”

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I think you are pushing this too hard. I understand you want to help your friend. But your friend might not be a good fit for this job, in part because the company seems pretty rigid.

      I also think that some discomfort could be coming from the part about answering yes to willingness to commute in each day. If the company hires her, then you could end up being involved (at least emotionally) every time she calls out.

      You want good things to happen for your friend. You are a good friend to her. But this could be a round peg and square hole type of scenario and it sounds like you probably worry this could be a hard sell for her to get WFH time.

      My one thought is would they consider hiring her part time? That way she would only have to show up several days per week.

      1. AcademiaNut*

        Yeah, it’s up to the company whether they want a position to be office based or work from home, and for whatever reason, they’ve decided this role is in office and are being clear about this. Lying in the interview about her availability and then trying to negotiate after getting an offer is risky, particularly for an entry level role. They’re likely to say no, and then she would have to choose between admitting she lied and withdrawing, or continuing to lie and hope they don’t fire her when it turns out that she can’t do the job she agreed to.

        Short version – she needs a job that allows flexible, regular working form home. This job doesn’t, so it’s not a good choice for her.

  55. Anon for This*

    My husband came to me last weekend and admitted that he is an alcoholic and that needs help. He’s been an alcoholic throughout our entire marriage, so this didn’t come as a surprise. But I guess that I had gotten really good at trying to ignore it/cover it up, and now that he has admitted it and starting attending AA, I am having all kinds of feelings and anxiety bubble up to the surface.

    I have been unable to focus at work all week. My emotions are just getting the best of me, and I have not been functioning well, at work or at home. To make it worse, I am in a “helping profession” and I just feel so tired by my own stuff that I can’t muster up the energy to want to help anyone. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can make next week a better week? How can get past my own crap and distractions and do my job well? It is okay to take a day or two off because you are emotionally exhausted?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Oh, I’m really sorry, this is tough. I hope your job offers an EAP, or that they have generous leave – and don’t hesitate to take sick leave for mental health if you need it either. I find I often have to remind myself to feel my feelings and give myself permission to be sad/frustrated/scared before I move right into Heroic Resolve (or worse, simmering anger). I had to take a whole dedicated Feel Sad On the Couch day recently and I do think it helped me move through something I was going through. Jedi hugs if you want them.

      1. valentine*

        get past my own crap
        This devalues your experience. You’ve surely been doing extra labor and, while your husband’s admission seems like it should lighten your load, it’s actually shifted and increased. Maybe you feel like he’s the one to be centered; maybe others are pressuring you to center him and to double your efforts. You’re not obliged. What if you center and prioritize yourself? Put your own oxygen mask on first.

        I agree with the recommendations for Al Anon. I see AA and Al Anon as being almost opposite, like your husband and you are now on separate paths in this regard, and I wonder if a physical separation would help.

        I don’t suppose this qualifies you for medical leave, but that’s what you need here, especially given your profession. Can you take a leave of absence or at least a week off to look after yourself? Reach out to Team You, especially anyone who’s not also Team Him.

    2. Minerva McGonagall*

      I’m so sorry. It’s totally okay to take some time for you. You can’t pour from an empty cup.

      Check into your employee benefits like an EAP or counseling line. Having someone outside the situation to talk to may help you with your anxiety and feelings. Jedi hugs if you want them.

    3. Not A Manager*

      Have you tried Al Anon or some other support group? I really think that should be your immediate first step.

      1. Shark Whisperer*

        I highly recommend Al Anon. One of my best friends was in a very similar situation and Al Anon has helped her tremendously. You get a sponsor, just like AA, and it’s nice to have a designated person who knows what you’re going through to help you when things get to be too much.

    4. Wine not Whine*

      Ye ghods, yes, take a day or two! You’re dealing with a family health situation here as well as your own.

      Addiction *is* a health matter just as much as cancer or an injury. It affects everyone in the family, physically through the effects of stress as well as mentally and emotionally. Give yourself get-up-and-walk breaks, make sure to eat properly, see if you can postpone or hand off non-priority tasks. Be gentle with yourself just as you would be with your clients.

      You have my very best wishes for healing for both of you.

    5. Lily Rowan*

      I would say it’s not just OK, it’s *important* to take some time when you are emotionally exhausted.

    6. Submerged Tenths*

      I know it seems counterintuitive to suggest *more* stuff to do, but Alanon (for friends and families of alcoholics) is a place with incredible support for those in your position. If you can attend some meetings, and talk with the people there, it may help you to sort through those feelings and chart a course for yourself through this emotional minefield.

    7. No Name Yet*

      As someone else in a helping profession, absolutely take some time off! As Minerva said, you can’t pour from an empty cup. I also totally agree with the suggestions of EAP and/or other professional support, and Al-Anon (if you think their approach will fit for you).

      And realistically? Of course you don’t have as much care or empathy to spare right now! That’s really really normal. So also try to have compassion for yourself as you cope with all of this.

      In terms of practical suggestions when you are at work, I’ve had some success with mindfulness techniques – ‘look, my brain has drifted to My Stress again. Ok, let’s focus back on my patient…..hm, My Stress? Hey, here’s this person in front of me.’ Though for me that’s more for difficulty focusing vs difficulty caring, so might be more helpful later.

      This is such a hard process for everyone, my thoughts are with you and your husband.

    8. Parenthetically*

      This is a family health situation that has gone from chronic to acute. Mentally reframe it accordingly. If your husband had had a massive stroke or broke both of his legs, you wouldn’t hesitate to take some time off to care for him, right? Take the time you need off of work to rest and recuperate. This is a big deal, and it’s best for you, your husband, and the people you help at work for you to be as rested as you can be!

      Do you have an EAP to help you with therapy? What you’re experiencing with your husband’s alcoholism admission bringing up a lot of your own issues is SO VERY NORMAL, and having someone experienced to walk with you through this emotionally complicated process could be super valuable.

    9. Creed Bratton*

      What’s the phrase – you can’t pour from an empty cup? Take a day or two. Clean the house or do some soul searching or just play 12 straight hours of candy crush. But do not feel that you have to keep giving and giving of yourself when you are emotionally drained. I might also recommend seeking out Al-Anon resources to help you process what you are going through.

    10. TheOtherLiz*

      Family of a recovering alcoholic here. PLEASE take time for yourself. Last year my sibling called to tell me they were going to rehab FINALLY and I was overjoyed, and immediately couldn’t stop crying. I took the day off. So many people including our parents couldn’t understand my tears – after all, admitting that they’d fallen off the wagon and needed help was a GOOD thing. But my emotional reaction was more complex than that and TOTALLY valid, and I needed time to process and deal with it. You absolutely deserve the same. And you probably know this as a professional helper: compassion fatigue is real. You need to fill your own cup before you can help anyone else. I suspect you know the answer to your own questions, but YES. It is ok to take days off. It is even ok to make yourself unavailable to your husband and process and cry and eat ice cream or WHATEVER you want and need to do. And I also encourage you to seek out counseling and an Al-Alon meeting – they’re for family members of individuals struggling with alcoholism. You’re not the only one dealing with this pain and you don’t need to tackle it in silence or alone, and you don’t need to put on a brave face, shove the feelings down and try and carry on for others’ sake. Take care of yourself!

    11. IT-guy*

      I’d recommend looking into Al-Anon for yourself and possibly counseling as was mentioned by Sloan Kittering. That’s really hard. And I agree with Sloan, there’s nothing wrong with taking a day or two off to do something for yourself. Self-care is important!

    12. Away Team Redshirt*

      Support and Kittens to you both! It’s fantastic to hear that your husband is reaching out to treat his health condition. (I work in a helping profession where all my clients have a mental health diagnosis or an addiction). Based on what you’re saying, it sounds like you could use some time off. “Being there” for clients requires a lot of energy. Your emotional energy is being focused on processing “all kinds of feelings and anxiety”, and that’s very normal! So yes, take a day or ten to focus on self care.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      People in helping professions often forget to help themselves.
      Now is a good time to start looking at your self-care. How’s that going?
      Yes, take the two days off to sleep and read and to ponder how you are going to put fuel in your own tank. How are you going to recharge you?
      If you don’t start finding ways to build yourself up you could start feeling more drained than you do now. This is not fun, I know first hand.
      On the good news side there is plenty to look and consider. A healthy diet, walking, adequate rest and hydration, time with friends and family and even time spent planning your own life. What would you like to add to your life that you do not have now?
      When we allow ourselves, to drain and drain and drain eventually we become depleted. That depletion can be pretty scary, it can look like heart issues or cancer or other illness. Now is the time to take steps to prevent that crash landing. I think now is an ideal time because your hubby is investing in himself. He is actively taking steps to make a different and better life. You can do it together.

    14. Ham and mayonnaise!!*

      I’m so sorry. I was in a relationship with an alcoholic, and it can be brutal for all involved. I second going to Al Anon, and an EAP if your employer provides it. I was fortunate that the health insurance we both had (Kaiser Permanente, and mine was through work) had an substance abuse program. There was a component for codependents like myself, that involved once a week group therapy and weekly individual therapy. It was simply life changing. I broke up with the alcoholic, but if I hadn’t had all these supports, I probably would have ended up with another one. Look into your options, take care of yourself, and remember… it never was your fault!

    15. Mazzy*

      Maybe look for the positive? You’ll get used to the shock and stigma pretty quickly. In my city, anyways, many of the “members” of AA are super successful, not to mention goodlooking and active and healthy. There is something to be said for complete abstinence. I’ve been pleasantly surprised on many occasions with people I’ve met through AA. Remember that now that people aren’t drinking and partying at all, they’re putting that time and energy into something else. And even if they were a complete mess, they’re trying to mend relationships with their family or children or whoever. I don’t see how any of these is bad news that should be stressing you out.

      Maybe you could help your husband keep his day count? He may have random food and sugar cravings or caffeine cravings because his body is going to be craving something to fill the void. He may also have random bursts of energy so go on a hike or long walk to work it off.

    16. Nana*

      Highly recommend Al-Anon, for partners/family members of alcoholics. Lots of support (you may have to try a few different meetings to find a good ‘fit.’

  56. Conifer*

    I’m applying for jobs and had to fill out a 35 minute survey to get my application through. Can I just share that these are the DUMBEST questions to ask on a job application?? Here are some, I wish I could post screenshots:

    – should a person quit their job if they cannot be loyal to their employer?
    – excluding extraordinary circumstances, how many times did you miss work last year? (Include vacation and sick days.)
    -how often do you tear up at celebrations?
    -when you are angry, do people normally know it? Or do they just know at home?
    -you are watching a seven year old hammering. He hits his thumb and cries and cries. What would you do? (One of the options to answer was “Let them cry, it’s a life lesson.”)

    The fresh Hell?! I am honestly turned off from the job just from this ridiculous survey. It’s for a medium sized hospital in town. Anyone else have weird survey questions for a job? And it turned out to be a great job?

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      I had one that almost killed me: “my ideal job would be 100% vacation leave.” I had to physically force myself to lie and be like NO I LOVE WORRRRK.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        It’s like the “If you could be doing anything, anything at all with your life right now, what would it be?” Well, truthfully it’d be cantering down a beach trail by the ocean, not a care in the world and with a thermos full of old fashions, and a craft shed full of all the yarn I could ever want, but ya’ll probably don’t want to hear me wax poetic about it, now do ya?

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          Yeah I’d be 100% not doing anything job related or that you could even stretch as a job related skill, like … sleeping in a hammock on the beach. Not winning any jobs that way!

    3. KayEss*

      The place I work now is awesome… except they make everyone answer a bunch of questions in writing before even scheduling an interview. They aren’t weird questions like that (that kid/hammer one is like something out of Blade Runner, what the hell?), more standard interview questions like “detail your experience in x, y, and z areas” but I was still so turned off by having to spend time on a one-way process like that before they’d even call me that I almost didn’t proceed.

      I’m hoping someday to have standing to be like “you should really reconsider this, because you’re probably losing out on candidates who have options that don’t include up-front homework.”

    4. this ain't a scene*

      Ahahaha, god, I hate those. There’s a place I will never apply for a job at again because of that. It was also at a hospital, I wonder if that’s a trend.

      1. Always a nurse*

        It was a trend 6 or 7 years ago in healthcare. The test was supposed to identify people that would “fit in” with corporate culture and my organization, at that time, would not even interview anyone who didn’t “pass.” The nurse union objected strongly, and from the documentation the union got from the sales promotions of the company that sold the testing to the healthcare industry, it was primarily designed to weed out independent thinkers and those who were more likely to contest management.

        1. this ain't a scene*

          The nurse union objected strongly, and from the documentation the union got from the sales promotions of the company that sold the testing to the healthcare industry, it was primarily designed to weed out independent thinkers and those who were more likely to contest management.

          Ah, yes, the last thing you want in a nurse is someone who can think independently. I can see how that would not be something you want in a healthcare professional. ???!!!???

          1. Not So NewReader*

            OTH, if you don’t contest a bad boss then the bad boss will fall on his face sooner rather than later./s

    6. Amber Rose*

      I will recount for you a story from when I was 12 years old that may or may not be relevant. I’d been working as part of a school program at a major chain pizza place. When the school program ended I thought it would be cool to get actual money and applied for a real job there.

      I had to fill out a 200 question exam. I’m not exaggerating, it was a full 200 questions. One question went something like, “You are required to ask people if they want fries with their order. A customer orders fries. What do you ask them?”

      I felt like it was designed to weed out robots with logic errors. The pizza place didn’t sell fries. All the questions were that preposterous. It was still the most fun job I had as a kid. Things like hospitals and big chains and stuff sometimes get caught up in ridiculous ideas for hiring, but can still be OK places to work.

      1. NotAMadScientist*

        Wait so do you ask them if they want extra fries? What’s the “correct” answer supposed to be?

        1. Amber Rose*

          I never found out! They were all multiple choice questions, and I think my options were to say nothing, ask if they want fries with their fries, or try to sell them a side salad. They didn’t sell salad either, for the record.

          The exam never came up again, and I don’t think anyone actually read it. They were gonna hire me anyway because I’d been working there for three months already and they wouldn’t have to teach me anything.

    7. Catsaber*

      Those are insane! I had to fill out a 30-page online form like that once, and it had similarly bizarre questions. Such as (likert scale questions):
      – when I get angry, I like to hit people or throw things
      – it’s okay to step on other people to get to the top
      – it’s okay to steal things from work if I need them
      – I feel this survey accurately assessed my skills and experience
      And then they asked me if I had experience doing inventory and cash register close outs.

      It was for a mid-level business intelligence analyst position…but all the questions indicated it was for something like a food service cashier. I answered “definitely not” to that last question and entered in the comments box that it was a bizarre and useless survey, and got an auto-rejection. My job at the time was….mid-level business intelligence analyst. So who knows what was going on there.

      1. Now I Have To Do That Too*

        I think we may have applied for the same place. Did it also ask questions about if/when it is OK to come to work still under the influence of heroin?

        1. Catsaber*

          It was 2 years ago, so I’m not totally sure, but that sounds familiar! I was applying at UT Southwestern.

          One of my friends, who has worked as a job placement counselor for many years, told me that kind of survey is very common in entry-level food service and retail positions, but it seemed really odd that it was being used for a mid-level IT position. Maybe they got it mixed up?

    8. LizB*

      -when you are angry, do people normally know it? Or do they just know at home?

      Well that’s terrifying.

    10. Bostonian*

      WTF? I… consider myself a good test-taker, but I can’t even tell if the “correct” answer to #1 is Yes or No.

      And does “tear up” mean that you get misty-eyed, or that you’re funneling beer?

      Why are they asking about whether I get angry at home?

      I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.

      1. Conifer*

        I don’t know!! The answer options were never, rarely, sometimes, frequently, and If it is celebrating me. I…*insert gif of woman laughing and taking off her glasses*

    11. Annie Moose*

      1) no they should remain in the job and try to bring down the company from within
      2) 0 days (however I missed 365 days due to extraordinary circumstances)
      3) i have personally drowned several children due to my extensive sobbing at even mildly celebratory occurrences
      4) none have witnessed my true anger. once in 1997 i frowned slightly in the direction of a poorly-frosted cupcake. fear me.
      5) weep child. for the days shall come in which the earth is consumed with fire. the trees themselves shall flee to the mountains. cities will shake and crumble and the stars will fall from the heavens. weep now, child, for in those days, there will be none left to weep

    12. Natalie*

      I took one of those once, for a professional job, and a full quarter of the questions were about selling drugs to coworkers. It was… incongruous.

    13. Environmental Compliance*

      When I was in high school, I applied to work at a Menards in the livestock section. They forgot somehow that they had scheduled me to come in, shoved me in a dark little office to take a personality test while they tried to find someone. I finished the test in about 20 minutes, and it was full of real dumb questions like the loyalty question above, would you hit someone (?!?), have you ever yelled at someone…etc, etc. Then I waited another 20-25 minutes, no one came to get me. I got up and walked out the room, tried to flag down anyone to ask if I should keep waiting or what, since I was done….everyone ignored me. I walked out.

      Got a job at a DQ about a week later, but did get a call back from the Menards about 2 months after asking when I could come in. Um, never?

      1. The New Wanderer*

        1) Loyalty is a core competency.
        2) 0 missed work. I do not require vacation or malfunction repair.
        3) I do not feel sadness or happiness to excess. Only to the normal human level.
        4) I cannot harm, or allow harm to befall, a human. I mean a fellow human.
        5) I am told small children require comfort. There there, small child.

    16. Clawfoot*

      Jeez, I’m not even sure some of those questions are legal! How many days have you missed work? Are they fishing to screen out people with chronic illnesses or something? I mean, I just took a month off through our company’s short-term disability benefit to have surgery, and then later a few days for bereavement, but I’m not going to tell them that, though! It’s none of their business! What the hell!

    17. Zephy*

      Jeez, what kind of assessment is this, the Voight-Kampff? Sounds like it’d be hilarious if you weren’t applying for a job while taking it.

      I had to take the Predictive Index (“PI”) assessment for CurrentJob. The format of the test is just picking adjectives from a list – IIRC, first it’s “pick the words that describe you,” and then, from the same list, “pick the words that other people think should describe you” or a similar epistemological nightmare of a sentence. Those answers are supposed to yield scores on 4 personality dimensions. I saw my results a few months after I was hired and it felt like reading a horoscope – specific enough to feel truthy but generic enough to apply to most people.

    18. Pinky Pie*

      I was once asked if what I liked best about a job, having leave, making a difference, affordable healthcare or a good salary. I clicked off the application.

    19. stellaaaaa*

      HOLY MOLY those are crazy questions!! I guess I should consider myself lucky that I’ve never had a job interview or application ask me anything like these.

  57. BTO*

    I manage a team and as part of their roles they have to do data entry. I’ve given a goal of 15-20 entries/week, which given the complexity of our system should take 2-6 hours. One of my employees on his “weekly report” shared that he did 10 this week so I went to check it out in our database. He did not do 10 this week. He did 9 all month! This is not the biggest deal in the world except that I cannot stand being lied to about this. I’m so irritated regardinf the lack of honesty and find it so unacceptable. I have a check in with him today and I want to keep my cool but I feel like he also needs to know that lying will not be tolerated. Do any of you have experience having to call out an employee on misrepresenting their work? How did you do it?

    1. Not Today Satan*

      I try to give them an out in the beginning. “You told me you did 10 this week, but I checked the database and saw that you’ve entered 10 this month. Can you help me understand this discrepancy?” You never know, maybe he was logged in under someone else or something (doubtful, but I try to err on the side of caution when accusing people of stuff). If he doesn’t have a good excuse, I’d make clear that his job is on the line if he lies about his work again.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        I agree, don’t come in hot with accusations but just ask him to explain how he calculated his hours, and keep your evidence in your back pocket. Hate to say it, but if you give him the chance to lie again and then catch him red handed, you may end up firing him within this conversation, because you can’t have employees who are willing to lie straight to your face. What else is he lying about??

        1. Parenthetically*

          Ah, no, I wouldn’t do this. Even if he did flat-out lie, you need to deal with that as dispassionately as possible, not set a trap for him. Just tell him that you saw the discrepancy and see if there’s a reasonable explanation. “Hey, Bob, I was so excited to check in on those ten entries you did last week, but when I looked, it said you’d only done 9 so far this month! That’s weird! What’s up with the difference?” His response is going to tell you everything you need to know, without having to ambush him.

    2. RandomU...*

      ohhh… I’d be mad.

      I think I’d go with the “I was auditing the TPS entries this week, and I’m a little confused. According to your report you completed 10 this past week but that doesn’t match what was in the system. Can you explain that?” Don’t mention the 9 in the past month, because you want to see what he says and if he lies to you again.

      Now, I’d do this for the slim chance that there was a legit reason for the discrepancy, knowing that there probably isn’t one. Then I’d have the stern talk about falsely reporting completed work and how that won’t be tolerated.

      The last thing I would do is to require him to include proof of some kind going forward of what he has actually completed in his weekly reports to you.

      1. Melody Pond*

        Oh, I gotta vehemently disagree with that last item. Changing the requirements of a process because you don’t trust your employee doesn’t fix the underlying problem – an untrustworthy employee. I think that mentality (“I can manage this by just adding more work to my employee’s process”) is how many workplaces wind up with huge inefficiencies. (Even worse is when employers then impose that new requirement on an entire team, as the result of one untrustworthy employee.)

        In this case, I think the solution is that the manager actually has to, you know, manage, like Alison talks about. If the employee isn’t trustworthy, requiring him to go through extra steps to show proof of his work doesn’t fix the fact that you have an untrustworthy employee, it’s just likely to create more administrative work for both the employee and the manager (who then has to review and verify that extra work) – and again, without actually fixing the problem.

        1. RandomU...*

          No, but an untrustworthy employee needs to prove their work. That is part of managing, instead of the OP spending their time digging through the database, they would be putting the onus on the employee to prove they are keeping up on their work.

          This isn’t the case of an employee making a mistake and adding stupid double checks. This is a case where the employee has lost trust, so they need to prove they are doing the work they say they are doing. Again, this is to avoid the manager having to seek out and verify the work the employee has claimed.

          This is in addition to setting the clear expectations of what is expected regarding fraudulently claiming completed work or any other lies.

    3. Tara S.*

      Start out assuming that this was an honest mistake – like somehow his entries were coded wrong. When you meet with him, say that you saw in his report he had done 10 entries, but when you looked in the database you only saw 9 for the month, does he know why there is a discrepancy? Maybe there is a crazy but true explanation. maybe he lies his pants off, but at least give him the opportunity to explain or come clean.

      If he doesn’t have a good explanation, you don’t need to get angry or berate him (although you may feel like it). You can tell him calmly that misrepresenting his work in the logs is a fire-able offense, and you take this very seriously. Let him know that you will check in with him in another week, and if you don’t see honest improvement, he will be let go. If he does somehow shape up, and you decide to keep him on, then you can have a conversation about how lying on his logs (and his apparent slow pace) have damaged your trust in him. Let him know that you will be watching his work until you can see consistent improvement, and if you do not see that, he will be let go.

      There doesn’t need to be any accusations, just a question, then a laying out of expectations and realities.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Yep, this exactly. Getting emotionally worked up because you don’t like being lied to is not going to get you the outcome you want here.

  58. Marion Q*

    Questions for those who are contract-based: how do you find out if your contract is going to be renewed or not? And broadly, what should someone ask during the initial offer?

    The ad for the position didn’t mention anything about contract, but during the final interview they explained that the company would contract me for one year. Today I got an offer, and I’m wondering what will happen at the end of the contract. If my work is good would they offer renewal? Or should I just started looking for jobs a couple of months before the contract ends? This is my first job out of university and I’m not really sure how to navigate the whole thing.

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      You will probably have a number of check-ins or evaluations over the course of the year where you’ll get an idea of how likely it is that you’ll be renewed or let go. In the weird case that you get no feedback at all, put a tickler in your calendar to proactively schedule something with your supervisor at least halfway through, and in any event two months or so before the end of the term, so you’ll know whether or not you need to start looking for a new gig.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      Oh no, if I understand correctly this is super crappy!! In fact, I would call this a red flag. If you’re a contractor (at least in the US), they may be using this as a way to get out of paying benefits and taxes, shifting those expenses on to you – so be sure you understand exactly how this all would work. Typically a contract needs to pay more per hour to absorb those expenses, but lousy companies do it that way to exploit workers. Would you be a 10-99? Would you be classified correctly? Check the tax implications. You’re right to be suspicious, and I think you could ask before you sign (preferably in an email?), how the decision works to renew a contract and what factors go into it.

      Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take this job though. It might be a great way to get started in the field. But since the company isn’t committing to you long term, you shouldn’t feel committed to them – they are saying they want to be able to let you go on a moments notice, so you should probably be ready to drop them just as fast if you get a better offer down the road …

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        To clarify, the red flag is that you didn’t understand it was a contract position until you got the offer.

        1. lulu*

          I understood that they mentioned it was a contract position during the final interview, which is a little late but not as bad as after the offer. They should have been more upfront about it, but you (OP) should have taken the opportunity to ask more questions at that time. I understand it is difficult to do on the spot, especially for your first job. But you can ask for clarifications even after receiving the offer, saying something like:
          “before I accept the position, can I ask you to clarify a bit what you mean by a one-year contract. Is it possible that it would be renewed? if so at what point during the year would that decision be made, and based on what criteria?”
          If you convey that you’re excited about the opportunity but you just need to clarify this part, they should be open in responding to you. If they are not, then I would take it as a red flag. good luck

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            Perhaps this is regional, but I would expect a contract job to be posted that way, as someone who already has a salaried job likely wouldn’t want to apply and risk the uncertainty of consideration. However maybe I’m getting contract job confused with a contracted employee, there may not be much of a difference in terms of wage/benefits for this position. In my field (nonprofits) most jobs that are grant funded, meaning have a good chance of ending at the end of the grant, self-identify that way so that people know what they’re getting into.

          2. Marion Q*

            Thank you! Yeah, in hindsight I should’ve asked more, but I’m not good at thinking on my feet. I’ll keep that script in mind.

        2. Marion Q*

          Whoops, sorry, should’ve specified that I’m not in the US! They’ll be paying my insurance and tax, so I’m not really worried about that. The weird thing is that they actually asked me in a roundabout way how long I was planning to stay with them, and my answer is basically, “If everything’s good I don’t see why I should move on.” But it seems like this is just how they roll.

          The contract is two-way street actually. If I quit before a year then I’ll have to pay penalty, but if they let me go before a year they have to pay me the same penalty.

  59. Kitty-Kai*

    I just finished my fourth week of my new job, and everything is going well! This is my first job that’s not retail, and I’m still adjusting (in a good way). I sit in a chair instead of standing all day, I have a regular set schedule, and I will have benefits in April. Honestly it’s a relief!

    1. Syfygeek*

      It was sort of bizarre for me when I had my non-retail job. The same days off EVERY WEEK? I could make plans and didn’t need approval for taking the time off because I knew I’d be off? And benefits?

      Congratulations Kitty-Kai!!

    2. Mellow*

      For me, one of the best things about leaving retail and getting a professional job was being able to use the restroom without asking permission and without being frowned upon for taking too long. When I did have to ask and when I was frowned upon, I felt robbed of my dignity.

      Of course, the good managers I had didn’t do either, which is partly why they were good managers.

  60. Mbarr*

    I’m excited. In February, I had a second interview with a company, but haven’t heard back from them since. I assumed I didn’t get the job. Today though, a friend at the company asked around and found out they’re still interviewing, and thus I’m still in the running! Yay!

    1. Zephy*

      Good luck! It probably can’t hurt to send a short follow-up email to the person you interviewed with to check on the status of your application. Worst-case scenario, you get a definite “no” and can direct your energies elsewhere.

  61. WellRed*

    Just came from announcement my company has been acquired. Supposedly no changes to staffing or what have you, but supposedly better benefits, etc (they are much bigger). I shall be on pins and needles waiting for the onboarding to begin next week. The only thing we have learned so far is they put vacation and sick time in one bucket. I hope that doesn’t mean they offer less of it.

    1. Mellow*

      Sounds like the news is good overall, yhough I understand your trepidation. Let us know how it goes.

  62. Sunflower*

    Just told my boss I was putting my 2 weeks in. She was totally supportive until I told her the name of the company and said ‘oh…i know someone who worked there and hated it’. WOW thanks. She was great besides that but just wow thanks!

    1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

      Congrats! And take comfort in the fact that there’s a good chance that she’s cringed in hindsight at her lack of filter.

      1. valentine*

        For all you know, they were a terrible employee. I hate when people rain on a parade just to share their sole tidbit.

    2. Catsaber*

      I had a similar response from my former boss, when I told him I was leaving our department for the IT department. The IT dept used to have a bad reputation, but it’s gotten a lot better over the past few years. So his response wasn’t totally unwarranted….but it turned out to be a WAY better job for me, and I love it over here in IT. :) Best of luck in your new position!

  63. KarenT*

    Tips for scaling back makeup looks at work? I usually wear a full face of make up (not heavy, light and natural but the full deal) or tinted moisturizer and nothing else at all. I’m looking for an inbetween look. I’m just not a morning person so I don’t want to do my full routine–looking to jump out of the house quicker.

    1. Karen from Finance*

      Practice skipping different steps in your routine, focusing on your favorite areas.

      Some possibilities:
      – eyebrows, mascara, lip gloss (nude color)
      – lipstick (bolder color), concealer and mascara
      – liquid liner, mascara, powder foundation (this is my usual one)

      I’m putting mascara in all of them because personally I think it’s great for making you look more awake. Or for concealer, it really depends on how much you need it. I find that doing around 2-4 steps of makeup is a good level for a day look.

    2. londonedit*

      My everyday make-up look is tinted moisturiser, mascara, dark grey eyeliner (I find it looks more casual than black), pressed powder (mine is The Body Shop’s All-in-One Face Base) and a tiny bit of blusher. Takes me less than five minutes in the morning. To be honest, my going-out make-up is the same, with the addition of some shimmery eyeshadow and maybe some lip tint!

    3. ContemporaryIssued*

      Sheer out your foundation with the tinted moisturizer, or a regular moisturizer. Go without eyeshadow (if you want to even out your eyelid color, use a powder). For eyes, just mascara, for the lips, a sheer lipstick. A bit of blush.

      My “five minutes or less” look is mascara, eyeliner pencil, a pop of concealer in the corner of the eye, and a dab of cream blush on the cheeks. I forego foundation in this routine, which I realize is a luxury because my skin is largely fine, no major blemishes or spots.

    4. ThatGirl*

      Maybe just tinted moisturizer, concealer if needed, and mascara and/or lip gloss? That can help you feel more put together without adding much time to your routine.

    5. CupcakeCounter*

      Stick with the tinted moisturizer and mascara with a light gloss. Mascara is a must for me as otherwise I look half asleep and I love a tinted chapstick/gloss for moisture and a little color (to look alive some days!)

    6. Saradactyl*

      I wear tinted sunscreen and do my eyebrows at minimum. If I have more time I do undereye concealer and mascara and some blush. If I have lots of time I do foundation and eyeshadow.

    7. Marion Ravenwood*

      What kind of products do you use at the moment? If you use a lot of powder formulas, I’d switch to cream formulas for things like eyeshadow and blusher – I find that applying creams is a lot quicker for me. If they come in a stick or chunky pencil, then even better. It might also be worth looking at multi-tasking products for lips and cheeks, although I have to admit I’ve personally found these often work better for one than the other.

      If I’m in a rush to get ready, my general go-to routine is foundation, concealer, eyebrow gel/tint, one eyeshadow (usually something brown and with a slight shimmer), mascara and a neutral or nude lip balm. Sometimes I’ll also ditch the eyeshadow and swap the balm for a red lipstick. I like this because looks quite fresh and youthful, and in the case of the red lip makes it a bit ‘punchier’, but it takes me five minutes tops. You can skip the eyebrows potentially but mine look like a hedge if I don’t do something to tame them, and I think between that and the concealer (and lipstick) I end up looking a lot more ‘groomed’ in relation to the amount of time I’ve put in.

      Also, if you get public transport to work can you do your makeup on the bus/train? I do my foundation before I leave, then the rest on the train to work (using an antibacterial wipe on my hands first and nothing messy, so no brushes/loose powders etc). Obviously if you drive then this is moot, but it does make a difference in terms of time and is a pretty effective use of ‘dead’ commuting time.

    8. NaoNao*

      I do a quickie routine that includes cream blush in a stick (easy apply and blend), “no makeup” eye shadow primer by Dr. Perricone (evens out your eyelid tint and prevents oils) a smidge of dark brown eyeliner on top lids, and a dusting of “Hollywood Sorcery” powder by an indie maker. Sometimes I’ll dust on some soft neutral eyeshadow if I’m feeling sassy. This is all over Dr. Jart’s Tiger Balm Cicapair drops (they reduce redness and calm blotchiness).

      I then use a tinted lip balm or soft lip crayon and boom, done. :)

    9. Lily Rowan*

      When I wanted to start wearing makeup, I went to a counter and asked for the least I could do (obviously, the least I could do is nothing, but she knew what I meant). So my everyday routine now is foundation, blush, and eyebrows. (My eyelashes are dark and I wear glasses, so I never wear mascara.)

    10. philosophical_conversation*

      Personally, an in-between look for me is a light-coverage foundation, concealer, a cream eye shadow, mascara, and eyebrows. For foundation, I’ve found that the Givenchy Teint Couture Balm is the best in terms of a light, glowy coverage, but I also really like the ELF Flawless Finish foundation for a more matte look. Both of these products blend out really quickly, which is something I really look for in the mornings. I use the Morphe M439 or a Real Techniques foundation brush to apply the product, and then finish with a Beauty Blender. I pop on a bit of under-eye concealer (Maybelline Instant Age Rewind) and blend out with my BB.

      If you’re looking to save time, but still want to do your brows, I totally recommend the Wunderbrow product. I apply it the night before and I don’t have to spend time on my brows in the morning. For eyes, I usually use a ColorPop cream eye shadow or a MAC paint pot and just pop it on with my fingers. I finish with mascara. All in all, I end up with a really natural, polished look and it takes me less than six minutes.

    11. KR*

      I usually just wear eyeliner to work. Eyeshadow & brows if I have time. If I’m extremely ambitious I will do concealer and the whole bit. If I’m a little bit ambitious I’ll just put a little concealer over trouble areas.

    12. Bex*

      My “daily face” for work is tinted moisturizer, a quick swipe of sheer blush (doesn’t need blending!), a couple dots of under eye concealer, mascara, and grooming/filling in my brows. I have actually timed it before, and it takes 2 minutes.

  64. Jess*

    Is there anyone else who feels angry and disrespected when someone who is clearly being compensated well enough to own property and raise a family offers you a job with a salary that is barely enough to support yourself???

    What do you do with that anger?

      1. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

        So I would say specifically:
        1. negotiate for a higher salary
        2. fight for political reform

        2. KayEss*

          This is definitely more useful advice than my gut response, which is “unhinge your jaw and eat them.”

          4. Parenthetically*

            Destroy them using your newly-discovered capitalist-rage-based telekinetic powers.

      2. Jess*

        Yep. And every time I hear a question about “salary requirements” I want to take off the “rules” about how we talk to potential employers about salary and translate it into these human terms.

      3. Jayess*

        No, this isn’t all of us. Capitalism is a far, far better economic system than any other. In capitalism, you can rise above poverty, lack of education, and even lack of obvious opportunity; my family has done so. This not an option in controlled and heavily regulated societies. I am truly thankful to live in the U.S. and be able to make decisions and choices that determine what my life will be like.

        1. Sam I Am*

          I find capitalism and communism to be opposite ends of the same pendulum. Neither extreme is good for society, mostly because human nature makes humans behave in a selfish manner. But if we work together with respect, we can allow for the good parts of economic systems that allow for things like innovation fed by competition, and saying that each human has a say in resources, as well as basic rights to food, shelter, clean air and water, education and medical care. In a broad sence, social democracy that’s geared towards taking care of the basic needs of humans and our environments. We really are all in this together.

        2. Mellow*

          Capitalism doesn’t automatically work for everyone, and heavily regulated societies do in fact fare better than the US overall interms of education and health. Indeed, capitalism, especially as praciticed in the US, legally compels the middle class to subsidize billionaires, and increaingly makes it difficult for people living in poverty to break that cycle.

          Cheeseteak in Paradise is absolutely correct: it is all of us, whether we realize or not, and whether we want to admit it or not.

    2. Zephy*

      …Laugh and leave?

      I saw an ad asking for a “superstar” to “wow” the hiring manager for a job that paid $9/hour for *one day* per week (specifically Saturdays). Yeah, sure, I’ll give you half my weekend for seventy bucks and knock your socks off doing it. /S /S /S

    3. LJay*

      Ultimately I left, and occasionally seethe to myself when I see a post of theirs on Facebook.

      They justified the wage at the time by saying, “Well, it’s a seasonal job in a tourist area. It’s not meant for you to be able to support yourself on,” but then got weird when people worked second jobs, wanted full availability during peak season (which is when any second job would want availability, too). And they lied in the job ad and hiring process about how the job had great potential to make money with base wage plus tips plus commission.

      Ultimately all their great employees at my location left, including me, and I tell myself that we were replaced with people who were less good because they didn’t want to pay enough to keep good employees. I don’t know if that’s true, though.

  65. Bacon Pancakes*

    Last year during performance evaluations, my boss spoke to me about how well I was working with others (not a positive). Although he didn’t bring it up directly, I know it related specifically to one person who I had negative interactions with throughout the preceding months. Specifically because she was undermining my position and not doing her job, which related to my position. I am not a supervisor, but am in charge of… say, llama wrangling and she was brought in for llama midwifing. Now, you can’t midwife a llama without wrangling it first, but she refused to acknowledge that my position would technically oversee what she was doing. And she refused to follow necessary protocols in terms of wrangling llamas before midwifing them (literally like “did you check on the llamas in the east pasture? I can’t find the llama wrangling sheet on them.” “Oh well, I checked but didn’t write anything down because I know how to do my job.” She was also upset that her job was brought in as a temporary seasonal job on grant and wanted our boss to make it a permanent position, which he couldn’t under the grant. She left midway through the llama midwifing season for a permanent job elsewhere.
    Anyway, annual performance evaluations are upon us, and if my boss brings up that my interactions with others have improved, do I mention that a lot of my negative interactions dealt with her Not Doing Her Job? When I tried to address it with him last year he ignored the issues I stated and when I tried to bring it up with her directly, she would complain to him… so I just wound up throwing up my hands and walking away from wrangling llamas during midwifing. Do I just take the win and keep my mouth shut (she was and remains The Golden Child, and I doubt he would hesitate to hire her for my role if I ever left)? Is there something in between?

    1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

      If she wasn’t the Golden Child, I might suggest differently, but I don’t think you can refer to her in your evaluation. If he brings up your “improvement,” take credit, but in a “thanks, I’ve felt very positive and confident in the past year.”

    2. BRR*

      You might just to have to take the win, which I really hate to say. Could you list some things you did to improve things and make it a bigger accomplishment than it really is (might as well make it work for you, right?)?

  66. Overeducated*

    Today’s the last day of my one year probationary period! It’s not over yet, but odds are looking preeeeetty good that on Monday I’m going to have enhanced protection for my job and a raise to “full performance level.” I’ve literally been counting down the days!

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I want to celebrate with you but I’m so sad your company has this policy. A full year is too long to keep a new employee on tenderhooks IMO. Still, I wish you every success!

      1. Persephone Mulberry*

        I wonder if Overeducated works either outside of the US or in government, because “enhanced protections” sounds pretty out of the norm for typical for-profit companies in the US. A longer probationary period might make sense if it becomes MUCH harder to fire someone once the probation expires.

        1. Overeducated*

          This is it exactly. I am less easily fired or laid off than someone at a standard US company. It can still happen but there are multi-step processes and documentation for either of those, whereas during the probationary period someone can be let go more like an at-will employee with an “it’s just not working out.”

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            I guess I’m just hoping your salary for the previous year, before you got “full performance level” (but were presumably performing at the full level!) was still a good one for your expertise/industry/area. I don’t know your situation obviously, was just thinking of places here that have kept new hires on “probationary” status, meaning very low pay and reduced benefits, for far too long. But I’m happy for you, and a good reminder that other countries may have far more humane systems!

            1. Overeducated*

              Thank you! I appreciate your concern, I think there are places that really do abuse “training” and “probation,” and I have a lot of thoughts about the treatment of interns, contractors, and temporary employees, but fortunately it’s ok in my specific situation. The one year probation is for all new employees, it’s separate from the “full performance” thing, they just both happen to occur at the one-year mark. The promotion is built into my role specifically, and it’s a good thing because it allows people who might not qualify at a higher level to have a year to grow into the role (it was basically a lateral move for me because it’s very hard to break in at a higher level from outside the organization). Unfortunately not all positions are structured to have any promotional potential, including my direct coworkers’ even though we’ve worked at the same level all year, so it’s working out well for me but it doesn’t for everyone.

  67. Caliopi*

    So I set my alarm to post a comment early, kept checking, missed the onlaught by about 15 minutes, posted my heart out, anyway, and poof! I can’t find it. It won’t let me repost (saying duplicate comment). Is it somewhere invisible to me? LOL I swear, do you ever have those weeks where you feel the universe is against you? Ah, well, off to work!

  68. Rainy days*

    Curious—what jobs have people had that really required the most creativity in practice? Last summer I had the opportunity to do some work as a script supervisor on an independent, non-Hollywood film set and I was shocked by how tedious most jobs, including that of the actors, seemed in real life. Give me a spreadsheet any day! The most creative job I’ve ever had was “high school teacher” because you constantly have to invent, create, and problem-solve. But no one thinks of that as creative compared to working in the film industry. I’m sure there’s a large element of personality fit, but I’d like to know: what job did you have that required you to be the most creative?

    1. Floating Shift*

      Working in public libraries can require creativity, sometimes in the most unexpected ways. Beyond creating programs (which can really allow you to flex some creative muscles), there’s the work you can do with displays (in the library or virtually), blogging, etc. It’s nice when you’re working on a project that involves collections, statistics and spreadsheets to be able to do something creative like a display. I’m speaking from the perspective of Adult Services —- I know with Youth Services, there’s even more opportunity for creativity.

      Creative problem-solving is also often a part of the job; it can be getting to “yes” with a patron who has an issue, or trying to figure out how to spend your reduced budget the best way.

    2. elemenohp*

      Design work is (obviously) very creative. I worked on a marketing team doing email campaign design work (also some digital and print collateral), and working under an art director was really a lot of fun. I currently do a combo of writing and design work, and the work itself is creative and challenging. I’m just working in a silo (I’m the only creative on my team), so I don’t get any guidance/feedback, so that makes it less fun.

      Marketing people always seems pretty creative to me… IME, they’re big on brainstorming, problem-solving, innovating, etc.

    3. Frankie*

      I have actually found a lot of my tech-related work to be quite creative. You have to be flexible and adaptable when you’re working with a lot of applications to get them to do what you want them to do, and there’s a lot of new solutions to try. The creativity helps, too, when you’re not on the super-tech side and you’re helping end users understand how to work the application.

      Teaching is very creative because the lesson plans are up to you, and figuring out how to tailor them to how students learn is really fun…exhausting, but fun.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Designing a new report template at Exjob was enjoyable, if not terribly artsy. Otherwise, writing books, which is more like a part-time unpaid job (for now!). ;)

      Most of mine have been boring admin roles, but I made flyers for a variety of things at OldExjob, including Daylight Saving Time (so people wouldn’t be late). I had a lot of fun with those. This one for Spring Forward 2010 was my masterpiece. https://i.imgur.com/Ht65MI1.jpg

      Bosswife didn’t like it and made me take it down. :P

    5. Fortitude Jones*

      The job I have now (a proposal manager). I write and edit large (and sometimes small) documents; design covers, spines, and tabs for our printed and electronic submissions; and design PowerPoint presentations and interview placemats. It’s pretty much exactly what I wanted to be doing with my life when I was majoring in journalism, yet, I had no clue this was A Thing until two years ago, lol. If I had, I would have pursued this line of work as soon as I graduated.

  69. How's the Job Market?*

    How’s the job market, both for seekers and hiring managers? My employer has had a VERY difficult time filling roles lately. Tons of candidates have straight-up not shown for the interview. Or people have accepted a job, then called the day before their first day and said they found another job.

    Our pay isn’t very competitive, which I know is part of it–but it’s not terrible either. But I have to imagine the market has swung in favor of job seekers in general. Has this been the case? It’s hard to go by the reported numbers alone.

    1. Art3mis*

      From what I’ve heard there’s a problem where HR folks are saying there’s a “skills gap” and really they are looking for purple squirrels.

      1. How's the Job Market?*

        Yeah, I think most employers need to take a reality check and either pay more, provide additional benefits (like more PTO or telecommuting), or (in reality, and) settle for less experienced candidates.

        1. ChimericalOne*

          Agreed. Too many companies aren’t willing to do the kind of on-the-job training that used to be common. They want everyone to walk in with perfectly-matched experience — and to do it for pennies. There’s no such thing as a skills gap in a well-functioning marketplace. You need people and can’t find them? Raise wages & the value of your benefits until you do. It’s not that people aren’t out there. It’s just that they don’t want to work for YOU. (And in some cases, they’re not even choosing another job over you — they’re seeing your job as a net negative to them and choosing unemployment [temporarily] vs. applying to your company.)

          2. Spool of Lies*

            Preach! You just perfectly described the issue I’ve been so frustrated with during my job search. Blergh.

          3. RandomU...*

            Pay isn’t even coming into the equation in my case. We’re just not getting the skills on the resumes. We’re not even getting to the salary discussions.

            My example below where I’m looking X, Y, and Z all 3 being major job functions. In my case I’m hiring a manager to lead two related teams; Teapot planning and Teapot Scheduling.

            I’m getting people with only planning experience, or only scheduling experience, or a teeny bit of one and sorta related to the other… no prior management of supervision of any kind.

            I’m flexible with some things, but things like prior management, I’m not willing to be flexible. It wouldn’t be fair to bring some one in to mange two separate teams remotely. There is a certain point that it’s unfair to hire someone to train, if you don’t think they will be able to cope with the job during the ramp up period.

            I think overall it’s a good thing that the economy and job market has swung back to being a seekers market , it’s just going to be a little more challenging to find candidates. It’s not necessarily the fault of a crappy company if the pool of potentials is thinned out because of the higher number of open positions.

            1. ChimericalOne*

              When you say “Pay isn’t even coming into the equation,” are you posting salary ranges? If yes, then you have to understand that many quality candidates may be opting out of applying to your job if the range is too low for them. If no, they may be opting out because of your lack of transparency (or your reputation of low pay).

              Pay absolutely affects who applies and, ergo, what skills and experience you’ll see on resumes.

              1. RandomU...*

                I don’t think we normally post a salary range, last I looked our glass door on pay was average, and we’re not in a state that requires disclosure up front.

                The resumes that I’ve had recruiter phone screens on have all been on the low side of our range with the exception of the 1 candidate who had the right amount of experience and she was right in the midpoint range. So for a very small sample we seem to be within range of expected.

                Typically our recruiters (they are contract employees of our company not external recruiters) front screen for skills and education. They don’t phone screen unless the hiring manager asks for it as a precursor to an interview.

                Looking at linked in, our ad looks in line with similar ads for open positions in the area of the 5-10 I just checked, none of them listed salary.

                Could it be that I work for a crappy company, sure I guess, but I’m not seeing any evidence of it.

                1. ChimericalOne*

                  Ah, I realize you’ll probably never see this at this point, but I’ll go on anyway, I suppose!

                  I agreed with you on a lot of this, and I think this is a key sentence: “It’s not necessarily the fault of a crappy company if the pool of potentials is thinned out because of the higher number of open positions.”

                  Yes, your company is not necessarily bad *relative to other companies* and your pay may very well be average *for the pay of these particular jobs.* But when the pool of potentials is thinned out by high employment rates, your pay can still be “too low” compared to what people are wanting/looking for. “Too low” doesn’t necessarily mean “you don’t pay marketers what everyone else pays marketers.” It means “you don’t pay marketers enough to make me want to stop being a stay-at-home mom and go back into marketing.” It means “you don’t pay marketers enough to make me want to not retire.” It means “you don’t pay marketers enough for me to want to major in marketing.” It means “you don’t pay marketers enough for me to want to leave my current marketing job where I’ve got friends and there’s no risk.”

                  “Marketers” (or any position/skill set) != some fixed number that you all have to compete for. Raising your pay above the average may be absolutely what’s necessary to stop experiencing this gap. But each company seems prevented from realizing this because they look around and say, “Well, I’m just doing what everyone else is doing!” and they don’t seem to realize that — in a buyer’s market — that’s exactly the problem. Pay is absolutely a major factor in the “skills gap” that companies are facing. And I wonder how much it’s being exacerbated by the Internet, and how much wage stagnation can be linked to the now-widespread knowledge companies have about what everyone else is paying. “I won’t pay a penny above X because X is the going rate, even if no one wants to sell at X” seems to be the mentality — but that’s not how markets work.

                  Someone’s got to blink first. If you want to do recruit better candidates, it should be you.

          4. Elizabeth West*

            Arrrggghhhh YES. Especially when they have a lot of transferable skills and a good base, but would just need a bit of training to be an amazing employee.

            I always feel like everyone is walking in with everything I don’t have and that’s why I’m not getting anywhere. Yes, I do lack some things, but I’m at an impasse now where I can’t get those skills without paying for them.

      2. BRR*

        Yeah I think there’s still a recession mindset of not providing any training. I know for some positions in my field the thought is, “You do X for $Y. We want you to do X for $Y but for us.” So there’s no real incentive for someone to change jobs.

    2. RandomU...*

      It’s been rough for me. I have 2 positions open and I’m not getting great resumes. It is most definitely a seekers market I can tell from the resumes. I’m getting the stretch candidates now, unlike the last 5-8 years. So I’m looking for person who has X, Y, and Z experience and I got 1 out of 10 resumes that has all 3. All the others have between 1 and 2 of the 3.

      Nothing terrible about that, but there are some skills I’m not going to compromise on.

  70. JobHunter*

    Postdoc question for the academics: am I setting myself up for rejection by applying to postdocs that list experience with a method (experience I want but do not have) as a preferred qualification?

    Several professors I spoke with encouraged me to seek out these types of positions, telling me that the point of a postdoc is to learn something new-but-adjacent to your prior research experience. I have had no success in my applications, so I am starting to wonder if the advice I was given is outdated.

    1. A Researcher*

      Caveat: I’m not in an academic institution or hiring for postdoc positions. But I do hire people for research-related positions, and since no one else has replied yet…

      I would say you should keep applying to those positions. When I’m hiring, if I list something as “preferred qualification” – and especially if it’s related to a specific method or analysis technique or software that’s kind of niche – my internal monologue is, “If you are a candidate that has this specific experience, you will likely jump to the top of my list. But they may be hard to come by. SO, if you have experience that’s related and you could probably learn X based on what you already know, please still apply and let me be the judge.”

      I might ask you to think about whether that method is common or rare for applicants to have experience in. If it’s pretty commonplace, you may be at a disadvantage. And you might think about how you could frame your experience with Y as being a really helpful base so that you can do work with X method, or something more articulate than that – help me see that you see how you will overcome the slight skills gap.

      Good luck.

    2. Jimjam*

      If they say “preferred” that’s what they mean: preferred but not required. Unfortunately, in the current postdoc market, there may be plenty of people who fall into this preferred category, and they’ll be considered ahead of you. Ideally, yes, the advice is sound, but in most fields it’s not really ideal circumstances at the moment.

  71. Aphrodite*

    What NOT to so when you see a part-time job you want that is clear and firm in the ad that specialized kiln experience is required:

    (1) Email your resume (as requested) but do not check it for typos and other errors.
    (2) Include jobs going back to 1996 on your resume.
    (3) Include a puzzle on your resume (as in, why someone who has spent many years being a bartender suddenly thinks we have the time and inclination to train on complex kiln work).
    (4) Beg for the job as in “Please Hire me” and an objective that states “To secure employment in a Laboratory Environment that complements my goals to continue acquiring Art Knowledge, Construction, and Management Skills.”
    (5) Respond to a fast but polite rejection by repeatedly sending response emails that start out with volunteering to do the job and end up, five emails and a day later with:
    ________________________________________
    “It doesn’t sound like I am communicating with you…

    Step 1…
    Of course, you will hire whoever meets your requirements and that is not me…

    Step 2…
    I volunteer as an unpaid individual so I do not have to go through HR… I do not have to become an hourly employee… I will not be any official part of your program… I will simply be a guy sweeping the floor and listening to you talk about the kiln and watching you operate it along with whomever you do hire… I will do FREE WORK in exchange for some training… I just want an opportunity to learn… Maybe one day a week for a few hours… After a year if I know what I’m doing then maybe I can reapply… How else can I explain this?
    ________________________________________
    I sighed deeply when I came in this morning to this email.. I thought I had gotten rid of him yesterday but apparently not. Hopefully, today’s very simple, very clear, very direct “no” will do the trick.

    1. ChimericalOne*

      “We do not offer educational opportunities of this nature. Individuals looking for training (or “looking to learn more about kiln work”) should contact [X university, apprenticeship program, etc.].”

  72. Small but Fierce*

    I posted about an interview last month. I had it this week and while it stands to pay 20%-25% more, I did not get the impression that the hiring manager would be as supportive as my current one. The work would be generally longer – 45-55 instead of my consistent 40 hours. The work would be challenging, and while this is good, I don’t think I need to take the first offer I get in this new state.

    I’d consider withdrawing, but here’s the rub: my husband’s grandboss went out of his way to recommend me, even though neither one of us asked him to. I’m interested in working at this company in the future. I’d like to hear an offer out if it came, but I think an offer even at the top of my range would be a hard sell for me.

    Would turning down an offer I asked for burn a bridge in this situation? Or would I be better off withdrawing my name for consideration?

    1. ChimericalOne*

      Alison has pointed out before that interviews are a two-way street: they get to know you & you get to know them. If you don’t think you’d want to do the work for any amount of money, it’s perfectly fair to contact them ahead of an offer and let them know that, after learning a little more about the position, you don’t think it’d be the right fit for you at this time & wish them luck in their search. If you’d like to hear the offer and think you *might* be persuadable if it was very generous (or if you think it might be a good stepping stone to other work you’d like to do with this company, perhaps setting you up well for an internal move), you can wait to see if an offer gets made and then do the same polite rejection. The only thing you *shouldn’t* do is counteroffer & then turn down if they accept your counteroffer. I.e., don’t propose something you don’t actually want to accept.

      Don’t worry about your husband’s grandboss! You can let him know that you really appreciated his recommendation, but that it turned out that the job wasn’t the right fit for you. I can’t imagine he’d take offense. (Nobody wants you to accept a job you’d end up being miserable at!) He might ask what was wrong with it, though, so be prepared to tell him what you’re looking for in case he’s willing to help you out in other ways.

      1. Small but Fierce*

        Thanks! I agree with your (and Alison’s) assessment about how interviews are supposed to work. Unfortunately I’ve gotten the vibe from a couple people that work there (including my husband) that turning down an offer in the range I asked for would be burning a bridge for this department, if not the company itself. I guess all I can do is try to navigate it as professionally as I can.

        1. ChimericalOne*

          Ugh, that sucks. If you really want to work for the company in question, maybe you can go back and negotiate harder on the hours; e.g., “I’m really interested in this position but I’m concerned about working significantly more hours than my previous job. Is it possible that some of the duties of this position could be delegated or transferred to bring it into alignment with a 40-hour workweek? I’m fine with occasionally working long hours, but I wouldn’t want that to be a regular expectation of my week.”

          Also, I’m not sure how well you can judge a would-be boss’s supportiveness from the outside… (maybe they’re more supportive than they seem?) If you can speak to someone who currently works on their team to learn a little more, maybe you can get a better idea whether this bridge is really worth burning (for the sake of your mental health) or whether it might be more doable than you think?

          I hope it all works out for you, one way or another!

  73. Detective Amy Santiago*

    I’m mildly irritated. My great, great grandboss holds a monthly meeting for all of the teams under them. They decided to change the day of these meetings to the monthly deadline day for my department’s work.

    1. ChimericalOne*

      Possible to say something? E.g., “Wondering if this decision is flexible at all — my dept’s deadline is the X of every month, and I’m anticipating that it’ll be quite challenging for us to have a meeting on that day in light of that.”

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I’m going to talk to grandboss about it since it is something that falls squarely under her purview.

  74. blackcat*

    How much correcting of unprofessional behavior should I, a college instructor, do?

    For whatever reason, my batch of students this semester seems particularly prone to off-putting behaviors. Ex: a student just wrote me a 5 paragraph essay (!!) explaining why he should be exempt from a class policy because he is “much more responsible” and “a better student” compared to his peers. I’ve also had more students blowing off meetings than normal, and a really remarkable number insisting on calling me Mrs. Cat even after correction (I say Black or Dr. Cat are both fine). Generally, a bunch of stuff that I correct in context or deny (in terms of requests), but I rarely include a note to the effect of “FYI do not do this even beyond my class. It is unprofessional.”

    If I taught smaller classes, or a less privileged student population, I’d be more inclined to do a bit more hand holding around this. But as-is, I’ve got 300 students, the vast majority of which are relatively well-off white or international students. When I teach for our program for first generation college students, I do quite a lot of work around professional behavior, but then I have many fewer students and nearly all of those students are very respectful and appreciative of my time. That program is for freshpeeps and my current batch of students are largely juniors/seniors, and I find it much more difficult to find patience for 21-22 year olds than 18 year olds.

    Basically, my question boils down to, how much should I consider it my job to prevent these students from entering the work world thinking it’s totally fine to bash their peers? Or refuse to call someone by their preferred name?

    (And, in context of current events, I sometimes feel a urge to snap at them and say “Your [white] privilege is showing.” But I am in STEM and I do not have the energy to open that particular can of worms with students.)

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I think the kindest thing you can do is be 100% clear about the consequences, which is the only way such people learn. “All students are held to the same standards in my class, I do not grant exceptions to the policy.”

      2. blackcat*

        Yeah, that’s what I do. So my question is do I add, “You should not compare yourself to your peers in this manner, either in my class or in other settings.”

        1. ChimericalOne*

          I would.

          Whether it’s because of their privilege, upbringing, or because they’re not neurotypical (which I say as someone who has Asperger’s), it can be very good advice for a person (esp. a young person) to receive. They might not take it to heart immediately, but sometimes it trickles in gradually, nonetheless.

        2. Reba*

          I’ve said something like, “this line of argument is not helping your case.”

          Of course, I don’t know what difference this made to the student, but it helped me feel like I wasn’t letting something pretty objectionable just stand.

    2. LCL*

      I can understand why you have little patience for the students who are junior-seniors. But for their sake, and that of their future coworkers, try presenting the same information re professional behavior to all of your classes. I work in government, not academia. When upper management decides that there is some instruction we will benefit from, all the employees take it. Including all management.

    3. Amber Rose*

      I had a couple professors do short lectures on how to write professional emails and how to address people properly and mention that these are workplace rules as well. Instead of correcting individuals, can you take ten minutes of one class to go over some pointers?

      1. blackcat*

        Maybe something to do at the start of next semester. It seems odd to do this now. I am instituting a “blow off a meeting with me, lose points on the next problem set” rule because I’m so sick of it.

        1. ChimericalOne*

          You can definitely address a problem mid-year! I did when I taught. Just let the class know that you’ve been having some recurring problems that you needed to address. Take a few minutes to lecture on the topic. Hand something out. Say, “I hope you’ll find this helpful in your other classes, as well.” Then dive back into the topic you’d planned for the day.

      2. Bostonian*

        No, don’t do this. Your students who already know this will be mad that you’re wasting their time and therefore their money. Ask me how I know.

        1. blackcat*

          Yeah, that’s part of my concern. I really feel like this is stuff that they ought to know and it’s insulting to take up class time with it. And it’s not easy 10 minute “Here’s how to format an email” but more like “It is inappropriate to badmouth your peers” which is a more complicated conversation, I think.

          It’s maybe 20 students out of 300 who do this kinda stuff. So a pretty small minority.

          1. Amber Rose*

            Yeah, but only a small minority will actually be mad over 10 minutes. I’ve had professors go on hour long tangents and hardly anyone cared. I guarantee you don’t have 300 Lisa Simpson types in your class.

            Most of the people who already know will just tune out.

            1. ChimericalOne*

              Agreed. As a student, I would’ve been frustrated, but on the professor’s BEHALF that they were having to deal with this, not mad *at* them for wasting my time. I’d believe them that it wasn’t just one or two people, but really a significant enough number that she needed to stop what she was doing and tell the whole class.

          2. Creed Bratton*

            This is curiously familiar thread as I think those same 20 students have emailed me today wondering if I’m actually going to hold them to the consequences of their (in)actions. Like, “I didn’t do it even though I’ve known about it for months but you don’t actually care, right?”
            Argh.

    4. deesse877*

      It’s always a bloodbath in spring semester, and advanced students can sometimes eff up MORE just because they have too much to juggle. Major clashes, extracurriculars, internships, regular jobs, relationships, all that gets more intense as one advances.

      W/r/t names, you know your own population best, but for myself, where I am, I’ve concluded that only a few deliberately pull out the “Mrs,” while most just have the habit ingrained, aren’t familiar with the title and status games academics play among themselves, and in general…mean nothing by it when they mis-address me.

      1. blackcat*

        When they can consistently refer to their male instructors as Dr (rather than Mr, as would be the habit from school) and call me Mrs, despite correction, it is disrespectful and smacks of bias, even if it is unconscious bias. A few students take the correction very gracefully, apologizing and saying they appreciate being old. And a few have been downright hostile this semester, including one who legitimately said that, in her mind, being married is a bigger achievement than a PhD (!!), so she would continue to address me as Mrs.

        1. JessicaTate*

          W.T.F. I’m horrified on so many different levels. I have no advice for you, and hope others do.

          1. blackcat*

            I mean, for that particular sentence, I uttered something like, “Wow, what a remarkably out of touch and archaic attitude.” Her peers did the rest and now she calls me Dr. Cat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        2. ChimericalOne*

          Re. that last example: You should speak to your dean or someone else about how to handle hostile students. If they were referring to you by a slur or misgendering you or something else, who would you go to? “Mrs.” instead of “Dr.” in that context is clearly sexism (coming from a woman or not) and you need backup in shutting this down. You should not need to tolerate this behavior.

          For the less obvious cases, I would make a policy of interrupting the students with your correction. “Mrs. Smith, can you –” “It’s Dr. Smith.” (Assuming you don’t already do this?) It’s more aggressive than letting them finish, but sometimes you have to be more assertive than you would normally be when you’re dealing with repeated rude behavior. If it happens by email, I would send one-sentence replies that simply say, “Please address me as Dr. Smith.” Wait for the response, then answer the question once you’ve received a satisfactory one. (These are, again, strategies for repeat offenders.)

          Another tip: You might want to just not offer your first name as an option. It might be making it difficult for some students to see you in the right light. I think the only instructors who ever offered that option to me were the ones teaching small, grad-level classes (or a few very small upper honors classes). It makes students more likely to mentally class you as “friend, acquaintence, casual relationship,” and possibly harder for them to think of as “doctor, professional, formal” –which “Dr.” might read to them.

          1. Wishing You Well*

            I agree with not offering your first name as an option. That’s way too familiar in a formal teaching environment. Even my elementary school does not allow students to use teachers’ first names.
            “Dr. blackcat” should be the only way your students address you.
            Sorry you’re having such problems, especially from older students.

            1. curly sue*

              The first name thing is extremely department-dependent. I teach in Theatre and everyone is on a first-name basis. I think it’s one of those things that comes with being backstage and in the studios with students all the time, outside of the formal classroom atmosphere. Someone trying to force the Dr. issue here would be as out of touch as students who try and push first names in a more formal faculty.

              1. Parenthetically*

                Absolutely department-dependent, and institution-dependent as well. My undergrad was pretty casual across the humanities, particularly in arts/theatre, so first names were not uncommon there (NOT maths or sciences though!), but my grad school was SUPER formal and southern, to the point that I had a prof announce at the beginning of a term once that he knew several of the students personally, so if they slipped up and called him Roger instead of Dr. Sterling, we shouldn’t be offended.

          2. blackcat*

            I have previously not had support from the admin in dealing with sexist students.

            Weirdly, my current batch are pre-meds (who are spit gender wise). I’ve never had this many issues with engineers (who are mostly dudes).

            At my institution (at least in my department), the folks who insist Dr. are all 50+. All the younger faculty/instructional staff go by first names, but I’m the only woman among the young crowd in my department. Liberal arts-y instructors are basically exclusively first names here.

            I do like not responding to the substance of the email until they address me respectfully. I do that if they don’t use any type of a salutation, and so I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to do it with the Mrs. emails.

        3. Drew*

          “It is extremely rude to refuse to use someone’s preferred mode of address, regardless of your beliefs about their preference. ‘Mrs. Cat’ is not how I wish to be addressed; please stop.”

        4. nonegiven*

          That is heinous. Put in the syllabus they’ll lose a letter grade for that. IDK, can you do that?

    5. Parenthetically*

      Go for it, IMO. Throw in the extra sentence or two, and then delete all subsequent emails from that person. Not that it’s your *job* to prepare them for a world of adulthood, but that it’s a favor to them and that it can maybe serve to assuage your annoyance about their cluelessness — at least you’ll have done your part, whether the horse decides to drink or not.

  75. Dee Dee*

    Weird dilemma. A “superstar” from another team parallel to mine gave notice this week. Our AVP spoke with the individual about why they were leaving and what they were going to do at the new job et cetera. AVP observed that the new role is very similar to a vacancy on my team and has asked me to take the person out to lunch today to float the possibility of joining my team instead of leaving.

    I actually like this person and think they’d be capable in the role. But I know that the good advice is to never take a counteroffer. I’m also not sure that joining my team would solve all of the issues that I am sure contributed to this person’s departure–maybe just the ones that they are willing to admit to the AVP.

    I feel conflicted here. I actually do think this person would be a good addition to my team and I am sad they are leaving. On the other hand, they’re going to continue to be a flight risk I’m sure, as well as the fact that it might not be right for them. Tough position to be in.

    1. cactus lady*

      It can’t hurt to take them to lunch! Maybe you can feel the situation out a little more 1:1 and make a decision then.

    2. Wine not Whine*

      If you’d be comfortable taking them to lunch anyway (so it’s not a “bolt from the blue”), do it. Mention right out that the AVP said they would be a good fit for the vacancy. Don’t put any pressure on it.
      In the end, it’s still their decision, you’ve simply given them one more piece of info they may or may not have had.

    3. this ain't a scene*

      What’s the superstar think of this? If you do go to lunch, I think being blunt with them and hoping they’re blunt with you. They probably know that a transfer won’t fix all their problems. And since they gave notice, they’re already prepared to leave and probably have other plans.

      1. Dee Dee*

        I ended up being totally transparent. Said they’d be welcome, but it’s totally their decision and no hard feelings from me either way. I find I get a lot better response from people by being candid than saying everything is all sunshine and roses all the time. :)

  76. cactus lady*

    I asked this question in a comment on a post earlier this week but I don’t think I was super clear in what I was asking. Hoping for a bit more guidance! Here’s the situation:

    I had lunch with a junior colleague the other day (we aren’t friends exactly, we both happened to run into each other at a restaurant) and she was talking to me about her frustrations with trying to make her first hire. It seems that they had a really highly qualified applicant who bowed out because my colleague’s boss (who is my peer in the hierarchy, though we don’t work together) wouldn’t provide a salary range when the applicant asked for it. We are in California, so this is illegal, but the junior colleague didn’t know that and was very surprised when I told her. Is it my place to say something to the junior colleague’s boss about it? I realize I heard this secondhand and I’m not involved in the process. I’d love input!

    1. fposte*

      I’d lean toward no, unless you’re in something HR-ish or outrank her boss. You could, however, mention it to your boss if it would be useful. In some situations I could see a generic mention to HR that people seem unclear on the new salary law, but that’s a very specific call.

    2. this ain't a scene*

      I’m more concerned about why the boss wouldn’t give a salary range, and I’d push on that. What kind of candidates do they think they’re gonna get if they make them go through the entire process until the offer to find out if they’re on the same place with salary.

      1. ArtK*

        The thing is, that’s been the norm for a very long time. That’s why California ended up passing the law that says that you have to reveal when asked. It’s similar to asking the candidate for their current salary. Both are techniques that put the negotiating power in the hands of the employer and that ends up being very unfair to the employees.

        1. cactus lady*

          Oof apparently we still ask candidates their salary history, too. I think that someone in the office isn’t clear on the new laws (which aren’t actually that new anymore). Thanks for the suggestions, I’ll be approaching this with our manager.

    3. ArtK*

      I would encourage the junior colleague to talk to her boss first, about the legality. If that goes nowhere, she should talk to HR. You can offer encouragement and support. If you talk to her boss, make sure that she knows (and is comfortable with that.) Boss could react badly to being “tattled” on.

    4. BRR*

      I wouldn’t say anything to the boss. I’d encourage your colleague to either bring it up to your boss or HR. I hate going the indirect route but if HR hasn’t updated people on the law, I might go to HR and say you heard that a hiring manager didn’t give out the salary when asked and see if they can provide everyone with information. It is possible more than just this one person is doing it and I think you have an obligation to keep your company from running afoul of the law.

  77. JustaTech*

    So, a couple of weeks ago I complained about not getting a promotion and the crazy “everyone must get the same rating” thing from HR (still kind of irked about that).

    Then this week I got a 10% raise, 7% of which was a “band correction” to make sure I’m staying in the right pay band.

    I’ll take that!

  78. Wine not Whine*

    I just said goodbye-and-good-luck to the best IT tech it’s ever been my pleasure and privilege to work with. He’s moving to Hawaii. (From a Chicago winter, which just rubs salt in the wound!)
    My Friday is a wee bit less happy.

  79. Lynne879*

    Am I not applying to enough jobs?

    I apply to 2-3 jobs a week and I keep being told that isn’t enough. But it’s hard when 1) I’m applying to different types of jobs in different industries so I have to tailor each resume and cover letter to the job 2) Some of the job applications take FOREVER to complete 3) I’m very slow at writing cover letters and 4) I work up to 50 hours a week where my hours I’m working are not always set (think retail), I sometimes have long commutes and I literally do not have the time to spend 2-3 hours a day applying for jobs.

    I do have many resumes and cover letters that I can “edit” based upon each job description, but it still takes time to do. Should I be applying for more jobs a week?

    1. Murphy*

      Unless you’re desperate for another job and you really don’t care what you apply to, 2-3 seems reasonable to me. I think it’s better to apply for a few jobs well chosen for your skills/interests with tailored resume and cover letter than to just cast a wide net and hope you catch something.

    2. fposte*

      Enough for what? Who’s telling you this?

      You’re currently employed, so you have less urgency than somebody who isn’t, and presumably you’re tempering your expectations on the timeline accordingly. I suspect you probably could spend less time than you currently do on cover letters, but that still wouldn’t mean you have to apply to more jobs a week.

      More to the point, how long have you been looking and have you been getting any interviews? If your applications aren’t grabbing people applying to more jobs isn’t really a fix, but I wonder if that’s what people are responding to.

      1. Lynne879*

        I’ve been looking seriously since August and I’ve gotten maybe 2 interviews, which I did horribly on both.

        I’ve written about this on the open thread before, but part of the problem is that I have worked many different jobs that don’t completely relate to one another so it’s hard to tailor my resume to a job description my work history seems so random. I’ve tried really hard to tailor my job descriptions to include the necessary keywords and have it match the job descriptions, but I’m still struggling. (For what it’s worth, I recently had an actual HR manager look at my resume and cover letter and she helped me a lot with editing the resume and cover letter).

        1. fposte*

          Sounds like a hard road; I’m sorry.

          But you’re not answering the “who says?” question, which makes me think that it’s parents or clickbaity websites or some other source that isn’t speaking out of real knowledge about the market you’re dealing with and your process. Job hunting is hard enough without letting in negative voices that want to tell you what you should be doing without any basis in knowledge, so I encourage you to shut it out.

          Do you think you’re missing good job prospects? How are you differentiating the jobs you apply to from the ones you don’t? In some fields, there wouldn’t be that many jobs in the region coming up anyway; if there are, it’s also possible you could improve your choices about which two you apply to.

          But overall I think if you’re applying on top of working full time your main task is the emotional one of understanding it can take a lot of time and finding a way to be patient.

          1. Lynne879*

            Thank you, this whole process really is emotionally draining on me.

            It’s largely people online who are telling me 2-3 jobs a week isn’t enough. One person even told me that I’ve been applying to admin jobs (which is one of the types of jobs I have been looking at), I should have gotten a few interviews by now and applying to 5-10 jobs a day should be no problem :/

            I know these people don’t know me and don’t know what the job market is like in my area, but that kind of comment still stings when I HAVE been trying so hard and I do wonder why I’ve barely gotten any bites after following so many different peoples’ advice.

            The jobs I apply to are all entry level. If they require three years experience in a role, I don’t apply. If they require one year experience in something, I still apply anyway. If I’m applying to an entry-level marketing job, I try to build up my current experience working in an marketing office, if it’s an office job, I build up the office tasks I do in that job. If it’s customer service based, I build up the customer service jobs I have, etc. I think I do pick the “right” jobs in terms of what I may be qualified for, but I guess there are always those people who are just a little more qualified than me.

            1. fposte*

              By “people online” I presume we’re talking, like, redditors or Twitter or something, not hiring managers in your area. I realize the irony of my saying this in a comment here, but people love to problem-solve other people’s lives, and they’ll hang that on whatever they could find. If you were applying to more jobs, people would start telling you you’re applying to too many.

              Absent a few egregious mistakes or challenges, people this distant don’t know why you’re not getting a job. They don’t like that much, so they want to choose a reason instead; a reason makes it sound like hiring is simple and predictable and we’re all fine if we tick the right boxes. The scary reality is that it’s a marketplace and there’s never any certainty there, and pretty much all of us could be on the hunt for a sustained time if circumstances and markets worked against us.

              It does sound like you’re applying thoughtfully but that you’re in competitive pools (2 interviews out of 50 applications isn’t horrible in a competitive pool, FWIW), and it’s just hard there. For all the shade I threw at your friend, absolutely have her give input–and then ask about her advice here. If there’s a way to make your application package stronger, that would definitely help, but also don’t forget networking. If you’re not already doing this, ask everybody discreet you know if they know of any openings that would suit you, and consider asking anybody you used to work with who moved on, anybody you interact with professionally elsewhere, etc.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      That depends on you, really. If you’re desperate to find a new job, then yeah, maybe step it up a little bit, or if you’re unemployed and the sole earner for a family. But if you’re doing alright financially where you are and you’re just looking for a change, no need to pressure yourself more than you’re comfortable with. Purely context-dependent.

      1. Lynne879*

        I’m doing ok financially, but I’m still desperate to find a new job since I’ve been looking for so long.

        Should I bump it up to 5 job applications per week?

    4. Not A Manager*

      Who’s telling you this? Why do they know how many jobs you’re applying for?

      Unless this is a mentor or a coach or some sort, I’d consider putting this person on an information diet. Your mom’s second cousin doesn’t need to know every detail of your job search, and you don’t need their advice.

    5. BRR*

      The number of jobs you apply for is only relevant to the number of jobs that are posted that you’re qualified for and are interested in. There’s no right number.

    6. Product person*

      I agree with all comments so far.

      I’ve never applied to more than 5-10 jobs in total when job searching, and never used “number of applications per week” as an indicator of the quality of my job search.

      My last search took 2 years because I wanted to get away from what I typically did (product management) and into something new (advanced data analytics).

      In hindsight, applying to more jobs wouldn’t have helped me. I needed to find a company for which the experience I did have in product management would give me a competitive edge against people with far more experience in advanced data analytics. I finally found it and am happily employed. In your place, I’d continue to do what you are doing: putting thought into tailoring your resume and cover letter for the specific positions you’re after, and ignoring the critics. Good luck!

  80. This Old House*

    I’m a fairly low-level employee who has, just through happenstance, lucked into having an enormous private office for the past year or so. I knew it was too good to last, and it looks like the gig is up – I’ll be getting an officemate next week, someone I know by name but have never technically met. I’m pretty reserved and sometimes socially awkward, but while it’s not like I want a new BFF, I’d like to be able to start out on the right foot so that we can be pleasant and friendly and not sit here in awkward silence for 40 hours a week. Any tips on where to start? Also, due to the awkward way the space is set up, this person can see my computer monitor at all times. How do I get comfortable working while someone can see everything I’m doing? I can’t even compose a casual e-mail if my husband is looking over my shoulder!

    2. Wishing You Well*

      Can you alter the set up so they can’t see your monitor? Think creatively and I hope you come up with a great idea!
      (A monitor shade might work.)

  81. Wing Leader*

    I wanted to throw out this tip for those have you that have been laid off and are job searching, need to build up savings to leave a crappy job, etc.

    Check out your local real estate investing association, go and meet with some investors there, and offer to bird dog for them. If you don’t know what that means, it just simply means keeping an eye out for houses they want and then getting paid when you send them something good. An independent contractor, of sorts. You can even posts ads and offer your services on Craigslist or whatever.

    Now, you’ll have to find out what kind of houses they’re looking for. You can’t just send them random things that they’re not interested in, that won’t work. But if you can hone it in, and then get good at scoping things out, most investors will pay you $500 or more for every house you send that they close on. So if you get good at this, you could make an extra few hundred or even few thousand a month. And if you just keep an eye out but don’t actively search, you might just make $500 every now and then.

    Either way, it’s something to try.

  82. Middle Manager*

    Thoughts on giving feedback? My pretty terrible employee (who I would fire, but I have weak management above me won’t let me) complains that I only give her critical feedback. I do actively look for opportunities to give her compliments, but her work is AWFUL (again, ideally she should be fired). I don’t know how to respond to her. I don’t feel like I’m doing my job if I don’t let her know about the glaring problems with her work, but I know that isn’t fun to hear about and I’m sure she feels demoralized. I’m offering her training, coaching. I don’t know what else I can do.

    1. fposte*

      Are you doing 1-1 meetings with her weekly where you talk about what’s going on with the workflow generally as well as the deficits in her performance? If not, start those. If so, don’t worry about pleasing her.

      When you say the management won’t let you fire her, can you drill down to what that means? Have they said “We utterly refuse to fire anyone ever” or have they said “Oh, it’d be really hard to find somebody with Cola Analysis skills, so we want you to try to make this work”? Because a lot of places make it hard to fire people and managers give up, when it would still be easier to fight the let-me-fire-them battle than to deal with the bad employee.

      1. Middle Manager*

        Thanks. I am doing weekly one-on-ones. She refers to as them “micromanaging,” although she also yelled at me this morning because she doesn’t feel she gets enough opportunities to ask me questions (when she interrupts me numerous times daily to ask me questions).

        It was a huge push for my bosses to even let me give her a negative performance review this year and put her on a PIP. They have been super clear that they will not support me in firing her for various reasons, none of which I agree with (it’s too much effort, she’ll cry discrimination, etc). I’m job hunting as a result because I think we’re creating a terrible work culture. My best employee is understandably frustrated at how much more work they are doing/how much better their work is.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, it sounds like this is not a situation that you have the power to change. Be reasonable and responsible but don’t feel obliged to please somebody who isn’t.

        2. BRR*

          Ugh I’m sorry. Have they said how they expect you to handle this? If not I’d be tempted to ask. Has she improved on anything that you’ve coached her on? You could point that out while still being clear what your expectations are. Can you have her report to your manager? Say it’s “a manager whose working style will be more compatible/help you thrive.” I don’t like pawning off problem employees but I’m ok with making a problem employee a problem boss’ problem.

          1. Middle Manager*

            I haven’t gotten very clear guidance on it. I think I need to follow up on this with them. Something like, “I would still recommend letting this employee go, but if you are not in support of that, can you please give me some guidance on how you would like me to handle her continual poor work?” And also, if she keeps trying to go around me (to two bosses up), I think I will respectfully suggest that they supervise her directly.

        3. Adminx2*

          Document? Create a form for her to fill out with areas of questions to explicitly check off during your 1:1. She already says you’re a micromanager. Stick to the form and nothing else. Keep every form.

    2. Wishing You Well*

      Can you quit giving your bad employee feedback? Consider no more meetings with her, given it’s useless. Your energy would be better spent looking for another job. Sorry you’re in this situation.

        1. valentine*

          Tell your boss how much time it takes and that, if you keep piling onto your good employee, you’ll lose them. Ask whether they think that person’s more easily replaceable. Add the hiring costs and timesuck and present it as a numbers game. What are you losing by having someone else do her work and you having to deal with her, including meetings about her? Where might you/the business be if you had no one or a competent person in her role? See if that sways.

          Can she be transferred somewhere?

          1. Middle Manager*

            No options for transfer. She’s entry level (other than our secretarial staff, janitorial staff, etc). I honestly think we’d be better off to have the job vacant. I still have to either do all her work or get help from a better employee even with her here. And your right, then I also have to have meetings with her and meetings about her. I’m meeting with my boss again this week to talk through it. We’ll see if he can see the light at all.

  83. Hopeful Trainee*

    Does anybody have any advice on working with a long term health condition?

    I have mental health problems and have recently started work part time after being out of work for nearly a decade. I work a 20 hour week plus sporadic overtime, and find this to be manageable. I originally hoped to build up to working full time so could apply for full time posts in the future, but two weeks of working longer hours has really taken it out of me and made me doubtful I would ever cope with a full time schedule. I’m undertaking a challenging and expensive professional training course, and my long term goal was to strive to reach a level that paid enough over a 20 hour week to cover all my bills and leave me with some disposable income, but two recent letters here have suggested that part time professional roles are frowned upon or hard to come by. Does anyone have any experience of this? Can reduced hours be negotiated as part of disability accommodations?

    I’m based in the UK and have a Masters degree but limited experience, so I’m not sure what to expect from a workplace in this regard.

    1. TCO*

      In my field (US, small nonprofits mostly, some academia) part-time jobs are pretty common! Because I work in organizations without endless resources, they often can’t afford to create a full-time role if they really only have 20 hours of work for that person to do each week. And finding great candidates for those roles, who really only want PT work and aren’t going to leave as soon as they find a FT job, is tough. People who truly want a PT job are like gold. I’d suggest looking at smaller businesses and nonprofits who might be creating more PT roles because they aren’t big enough to just made a job FT for the sake of filling it.

      I’ll also add that depending on your specialty, working for a non-profit won’t necessarily mean making low wages or less money than you’d make in other sectors. Sometimes PT jobs even have a bit higher hourly rate in recognition of the challenge of filling those jobs.

      1. Hopeful Trainee*

        This is very reassuring.

        For a bit of extra detail, I’m training as a counsellor (therapist in US terms) so my options are probably going to be NHS, non-profit, or an educational setting. There is also private practice (a lot of folks go that route) but you tend to have to set up on your own, and I have no interest or inclination to set up my own business. I also have ethical objections to charging individuals for what I see as an essential healthcare service, so I’m avoiding private practice. Non profits would be my best bet, so hopefully something will come up. I hope to learn more during my training as well.

        1. Bagpuss*

          I think counselling would be better than some types of work for part time hours, as it would be possible to accommodate by having fewer patients.
          That said, I think you may find that funding cuts mean that the NHS and no-profits have fewer resources to hire or replace staff.

    2. Weegie*

      P/T professional roles are not particularly frowned on, but they are hard to come by (in the UK).

      Yes, you can usually negotiate reduced hours on the basis of disability (and for other reasons), but I suspect it’s easier to do it if you’re already in a F/T job when your health situation changes. (Not an HR person, so only going by past and present colleagues’ experiences and employers’ policies.)

  84. Introvert girl*

    How do you know the difference between burning out and just not liking most jobs?
    I have a dilemma. I don’t know if I’m just not a good fit for working in offices (I have no problem working from home) or are starting to burn out?

    1. Adminx2*

      Take a vacation. The day before you have to return, analyze how you feel about going back and what about it you find resistant.

  85. contract maybe*

    I’m considering leaving my current position which is a permanent position for a contract job. The cost of health insurance isn’t bad with the contract company, and the company I would be working for has a good reputation for hiring the contractors into a permanent position. Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with a contract job?

  86. Yayayayayayayay!!*

    I can’t brag about this in my life, so I’m bragging about it here. My supervisor really went to bat for me this week, resulting in great news from grandboss. They are moving forward with the final details in the next two weeks. I am not a patient person, so waiting for 8 months has been hard.

  87. Anon Just in Case*

    I have an unusual resume question that I’m having trouble Googling. For my current position, I was initially hired by Company X. About 4 months after I was hired, Company X decided that it made more sense for my department to operate independently, so the entire department (21 employees) was spun off into a new consulting org almost entirely owned by Company X. The work itself did not change, but our client base did significantly. We still contract with Company X to do essentially our old jobs, and the time commitment is not insignificant (about 40% of my time). We still attend Company X’s quarterly staff meetings and things like that as well. To complicate things further, I may soon sign an independent contractor agreement with Company X to provide more support to a specific project outside of regular work hours.

    My question is…how do I reflect this on my resume? I currently have Company X listed as (hire date – present) with a note of how much time I spend working with them per week, and then my new org as (creation date – present). I do not want to remove Company X from my resume because I already had a borderline long gap in employment before being hired there. And I don’t want to list Company X as (hire date – new company creation date) because I don’t want the short length of time to raise eyebrows (especially considering my not-great history of short tenures in the past). However, it feels misleading because I have not technically worked for Company X for over a year. Any suggestions for how this can be presented in a way that won’t be misleading or take minutes to explain?

    1. this ain't a scene*

      Can you do the employer line as:
      Employer 2 (formerly a part of Employer 1)
      Date of hire by Employer 1 to present

      And then you can say something more in the cover letter or the interview?

      1. valentine*

        Company Y (subsidiary of Company X) ydate-present
        title/independent contractor (?)
        ~accomplishments

        Company X xdate-ydate
        title
        ~accomplishments

        Is this legal? It seems like a way to flout the law. Because you’re an employee of 2, are you really an independent contractor or do they require you to be on the premises and work shifts?

  88. ThatGirl*

    I’ve been at my job for approaching two years now.

    Early on I identified a key gap in knowledge sharing that really needed to be addressed. I’ve been pushing for us to do better at this nearly that whole time.

    FINALLY yesterday we had a meeting to start quarterly meetings and really get the process rolling. I’m so proud. (In that time we’ve had my entire team change around me including all of the managers so it really was me who kept the push going.)

  89. Frankie*

    Just venting about a teammate who doesn’t really “get” pumping and asks me to move or shorten my pumping times (but not directly, like, she knows I have the time set on my calendar, she knows what it is, but she asks if she can schedule over it and is like “do you have a meeting or something?”).

    She’s the only one who’s not great about it at work, so I know I have it good. But it’s irritating. I already pump in the car on the way to and from work, just to reduce how much I’m pumping in the office and the impact on work, and I keep the used parts refrigerated during the day instead of taking up more time to wash them. I essentially don’t get a break all day because I’ve split my lunch hour into two pumping sessions. And I really do often need 20 minutes minimum for a session, especially when I can’t do it in my shared office, but even when I can.

    1. BadWolf*

      Maybe it’s time for “Hey, I know you’re trying to find a good time, but pumping time is just not negotiable. I’ll let you know if that changes, but for now assume I can’t change it or cut it short.”

      1. ChimericalOne*

        Definitely. And then if she keeps asking, you can say, “Like I’ve mentioned before, pumping time is not negotiable. I find it strange that you’re continuing to ask me about this. Please stop.” And then, if she continues after that, it’s probably time to take it up the chain, because you’re being harassed about it and you’ve asked her to stop.

        1. Frankie*

          I should say something. I’ve been a little conflicted because I’m not trying to hide that I’m pumping, but also want to be at least a little discreet about it and not have to justify or clarify with peers what I’m doing. I should just be direct and see if it nips it in the bud.

          1. Fellow Traveler*

            I’ve lately come to feel that there is no reason to feel like we need to be discreet or evasive about pumping, and that being secretive about it in fact contributes to the lack of understanding in the workplace for pumping employees. I mean, I didn’t even realize pumping was a thing until I had my first kid because it just wasn’t a thing that was talked about. We have no problems saying, “Excuse me, I need to go to the restroom.” And I feel like we should similarly feel like we can say, “Excuse me, I need to go pump.” without feeling embarrassed or defensive. Pumping is onerous enough without it having to be emotionally taxing with coworkers.

              1. valentine*

                I wish there were a better comparison than voiding, but it’s great for throwing outrageous behavior into sharp relief. If you were on your way to the restroom and this woman asked to schedule over that, you’d laugh in her face or register extreme surprise. Same here. The more matter-of-fact you are about it, the more you’ll see just how weird she’s being. Do you have a meeting? Yes, and she knows it. Wow. I wonder what her deal is, but it doesn’t matter.

                Prioritize your pumping and health. Be your first and best advocate. Your employer owes you this. The work will wait. No one’s going to appreciate the sacrifices and instead of inch/mile, it’s lunch/pump break. Seize back your time. It should have an immediate positive effect.

    2. Lilysparrow*

      You’ve told her what the time is for.

      If she sends a meeting request for pumping time, decline it. If she asks if you’re in a meeting, say “yup.” If she asks if you can move it, say “nope.”

      Her ignorance is not your problem. Don’t accept the burden of trying to make her understand or be a decent person. She won’t, so save your energy and let her go be stupid at someone else.

  90. EnfysNest*

    Oooooh, boy, it has been a week.
    -My boss and coworker shouting at each other one day in the office next to mine, challenging each others’ motivations and saying some really intense stuff.
    -Finding out that when another coworker was covering for me when I was on PTO last week, there was a potentially *really bad* oversight on one of my projects (thank goodness it turned out to be okay, but it was really stressful for a couple days until we knew for sure it wasn’t the disaster that it could have been).
    -A big decision that was made for the department that several coworkers are very upset with.
    -Finding out that another project that’s about to kick off has more issues than we realized that need to get addressed pretty quickly.

    And those are just the big ones coming to mind first. Ugh. Thank goodness it’s Friday!

  91. Floating Shift*

    In my yearly evaluation the other day, I was criticized for referring to my group of staff as a “team.” It was pointed out that other people can hear “team” and associate it with sports and think I’m being competitive.
    I used to refer to my staff as “staff,” but have worked hard over the last 2 years to pull them together into a cohesive group that works well with each other — and so I had been referring to them as a “team” to both my staff (i.e. “Teapot Designer Team 2 worked on project Fabulous Floral this month . . . ) and to others. And my group now works really well with each other.
    So, I apologized to my boss and said I didn’t realize that using the word “team” was something that people (I’m assuming from how she said it, her and other people above me) didn’t like. I asked her what she would prefer and she said “staff.” She mentioned that she knows a more modern way to refer to staff is “team” (and also that she grew up with the word “staff” and it was what was used when she entered the working world.)
    So, asking for opinions here: Is “team” the wrong word to use? Should it only be used in the context of a particular single project? Thanks — and Happy Friday!

    1. fposte*

      “Team” was a fine word to use. This is about your boss’s weird tastes. Conform to them for felicity’s sake but don’t worry about it.

    2. TCO*

      Your boss is being weird. “Team” is so common, and in general I think it sets more of a collaborative tone than a competitive one. The idea of it sounding competitive in a workplace setting never even occurred to me before reading this.

    3. DC*

      If she knows it’s a modern way to refer to it, why is she objecting? I think this is just them being weird. It’s definitely not a hill to die on, but it’s also not the wrong word!

    4. Not A Manager*

      Could you switch to calling them your “group”? I agree with you that “staff” sounds less cohesive and more top-down than I think you want.

      1. Lilith*

        Maybe have a contest to name themselves like: a .murder of crows, a conspiracy of ravens or a parliament of owls.

    5. BRR*

      Team is fine and I prefer that to staff (unless you’re the owner or maybe the CEO, then you can say staff but I would still prefer team). I would also accept group or department. This is like the epitome of searching for a problem with something.

    6. Kathenus*

      I use team primarily because it feels more respectful to them and to show that we are all part of a collective effort – it’s meant as a good thing versus staff or employees, or whatever. That said, everywhere I’ve ever worked has it’s various quirkiness with certain words. My current one definitely does in ways that make me internally roll my eyes at times, but the word preferences aren’t bad or wrong, just different than I’m used to, so I just adapt and move on. This is your boss’s thing, the word team pushes a different button for him, so just use something else since it’s pretty low stakes and pushing back doesn’t seem necessary in this case. Might be worth letting her know that you might slip up as you work to use ‘staff’, so to help you out if she sees you using ‘team’ out of habit.

    7. Frankie*

      That is ultra-weird. My group uses “team” all the time, and it is used in a collaborative sense, not in a competitive one.

    8. Environmental Compliance*

      Super weird. Team sounds like you are all working together towards the common goal. Staff sounds like….I dunno, to me more like they work *for you* doing what *your* goals are, without you actually doing much more than supervise in a vague fashion.

      A wealthy mansion has staff. A company department has a team. (If that makes sense to anyone, lol.)

    9. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      ” used to refer to my staff as “staff,” but have worked hard over the last 2 years to pull them together into a cohesive group that works well with each other”

      So this is the part that jumps out at me, because I was once in a similar position. The reason for the blowback was they felt threatened by how cohesive my team had become. It was viewed as being disloyal to the company, and they basically felt the “team” wasn’t sufficiently beaten into submission.

      Could they feel something like that is going on? That the staff is more loyal to you (the Good Boss) than The Company, and they don’t like it?

      1. Floating Shift*

        Interesting question —- my manager also mentioned that in meetings with other managers (even ones that are in other locations), I shouldn’t say things like “My team is doing . .. ” or “My team has found that ….” Apparently, I’m supposed to say “We’ve tried this and such . . . ”
        I think my staff like my manager a lot, but I have worked hard to build their trust and that shows. So maybe there was some element of odd feelings going on from my manager?

    10. Mr. Shark*

      That seems bizarre to me. Generally the people at my CurrentJob use the word team (though my newest boss has called our weekly meetings, “Staff” meetings, maybe because of a military background?).

      I don’t see it as competitive at all, and I would be rolling my eyes continuously if I was told that the term team was anything other than a cohesive unit that works together.

      Since Team won’t work, I’d go with Group, as someone else mentioned.

      Happy Friday!

  92. Robots Are Stealing Our Jobs*

    I know a lot of companies are just using some kind of standard rejection form letter when they’ve hired someone else, but is it too much to ask that they not be actively insulting to the candidates who applied? I recently received one that said I was either “unqualified for the position” or that I did not include all the necessary items requested (which I definitely did; the form itself would not allow me to proceed until each of the required documents had been attached to the application, plus I also included all of the “recommended” documents that were optional). Is there any recourse to this kind of HR/technological nonsense that blames the candidate for things they didn’t do in the hiring process?

    1. fposte*

      Ugh. No, I don’t think there’s any real recourse, but I think it’s really poor form (I get irrationally angry with any technology that says I did it wrong when I know it’s a technical glitch, let alone for a job application). I think there’s some possibility if they’re specific (“Unfortunately, the role requires someone with a bachelor’s degree,” which you clearly have) but not a generic rejection like that.

    2. Kathenus*

      Is this a government job, by chance (any level, municipal to federal)? I’ve seen that type of language frequently from these types of jobs. Ironically I was once told that I didn’t meet the minimum qualifications for a federal job I applied for – the exact same job I held for six years (in a different department), same grade, title, everything. And no, the different department part was not related to the qualification – it was related to the specific degree I had which was the same one I had when I was hired previously.

      1. Robots Are Stealing Our Jobs (And Aren't Very Good At Them, Either)*

        Yes, and the even more strange thing about it is that it was for a job at a community college that requires applicants to write a statement about how they will uphold the campus’ policy of being inclusive to all minorities, genders and sexualities, and people with disabilities – which you might think would make them a bit more sensitive to this kind of exclusionary language.

    3. Not Alison*

      Man, don’t take it so personally. Alison has said many, many times before that companies use form letters so that disgruntled job seekers don’t circle back and ask for more feedback, or ask to be reconsidered, or say why the rejection was wrong, etc. etc.

      Yes, it stinks to get a rejection letter, but it’s a fact of life. We all get them.

      1. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

        “We all get them”
        Probably not everyone gets one with an untrue claim in it, though.

  93. BlueCastle*

    I want to submit a portfolio of several online articles that I’ve written or edited with a job application, what’s the best format for doing that? A spreadsheet with links to all the articles? Saving the articles as PDFs and attaching them to my application?

    1. fposte*

      Have they been asked for? If so, save them, preferably as a single PDF rather than multiples. If they’re not asked for, save them online and include the link on your resume.

    2. Budgie Lover*

      You can also create a simple WordPress website to showcase your articles and include the link in forms that request either a website or portfolio.

  94. The Tin Man*

    I was going to post a general question of “how do I approach my boss about working from home one day per week?” Then this morning my boss gave his notice. Well that made it more complicated.

    THE BACKGROUND – I have an analytical/administrative role in my company. I have a very good working relationship with my boss and he trusts me to get my work done, which I do. Pretty much all of my work can be done remotely and my office is even about an hour away from our regional HQ where my boss is (when he isn’t on the road to different job sites). I plan to move to a different state, 3+ hours away, in the next 1-3 years. To test the waters about being 90% remote (driving to HQ every other week or so) I was going to ask to work from home every Friday.

    My case is that I got a good review and a “meh” raise because of poor company-wide financial performance in 2018. I get that there is only so much money so I was going to approach my boss about the fact that working from home each Friday, with the exceptions of when there is a meeting I need to go in for (rarely happens), would do well to make me happy and not cost the company money.

    THE QUESTION – Should I bring this up to him now, even though he is on the way out?

    I get that any new direct boss would have the ability (and right) to revoke the agreement but I feel like it wouldn’t hurt to bring it up now. It would be the difference of a new boss being told “Tin Man works from home every Friday” and deciding for him/herself if that works and me making the request of a new manager who doesn’t personally know my work product yet. Current boss would run it by his boss anyway so someone who gave the okay and knows my work product would still be around.

  95. AnonyMouse*

    So I have a phone interview on Monday for a remote position in my industry. My geographically location bound job search hasn’t been as fruitful as I would like, so I’m trying to expand my reach. A fully remote position opened up at an out of state university’s global campus, and so I figured why not apply? Despite having no remote work experience, I got an interview! Any pointers for interviewing for a remote position when you don’t have remote experience? I have worked from home before on an as needed basis, but I haven’t had a true fully remote position. I’m actually genuinely excited about this, and the more I think about working from home the more appealing it becomes to me.

    1. this ain't a scene*

      Highlight that you’ve been working from home and that it’s been going fine! They’re probably going to ask you about your challenges with WFH, so be prepared to think up any challenges if it doesn’t seem to have been any for you ;)

  96. Saradactyl*

    Two Friday gripes I wanna get out of my system:
    1) my one coworker who is really weirdly occupied with how much harder our job was when our department was founded and how much she worked and how stressful it all was. She brings it up constantly and seems really intent on letting me know “it’s going to get really busy in our busy season! Just be prepared!!” WTH?????
    2) people that spell my name wrong after they have to type out my email address to contact me. And my email address is saradactyl@company.com, not s.dactyl@company.com or whatever. You literally had to look at the correct spelling of my first name to contact me and you’re still calling me Sarahdactyl?

    Anyways. I’ve been allowed to work from home both today and yesterday and I actually loved it, and my day today is looking pretty painless. Cheers to the rest of the day and the end of a busy week.

    1. ChimericalOne*

      Sure they’re not just copying & pasting it? Lots of folks don’t really read… Lack of attention to detail does bother me too, though!

      1. Saradactyl*

        They’re probably copying and pasting, you’re right, it’s still just one of those tiny pet peeves of mine that shouldn’t chap my butt as much as it does but yet here I am.

    2. elemenohp*

      I mean, maybe it does get really busy and that’s super stressful?

      My last job was similar. When I started, people kept talking about Busy Season, like we were getting ready for war. At first, I was like, “what’s the big deal? All industries have a busy season.” But then, I experienced it for myself. Even though I’d been warned, I was not prepared for how busy we actually were. It almost broke me.

      In hindsight, the Busy Season doom was a warning to get out before the s*** hit the fan. I made sure to find a new job as soon as that was over because there was no way I was sticking around to do that again.

    3. OtterB*

      On the name, as long as it’s not the same person consistently, I’d chalk it up to one of those things. I had a problem for a while with a Joann-without-an-e friend and a Joanne-with-an-e colleague. I’d get the right email addresss because those autopopulated, but way too often get the name wrong depending on who I’d been emailing with most. I tried. The fingers had brains of their own (not very good ones).

    4. aeldest*

      The name spelling one drives me crazy too! Someone in an organization we work with frequently spells my name and my coworker’s name wrong every single time, even though she’s always replying to our emails with our names in the signature line. And they’re not even common spellings of our names– it seems like it must take more mental effort to get it wrong than right! (along the lines of Sarah to Serra, and Nathan to Nathon)

  97. boredatwork*

    TLDR: Employer wants us to work harder for our PTO

    I currently get 16 days off – 10 are guaranteed – 6 are for meeting certain deadlines (as a team) – the powers that be have shifted 2 of these days to be earned by developing/implementing projects. We’re supposed to come up with these ideas and have the merits debated by the managers, to make sure they’re “hard” enough??

    I am very annoyed by this. I volunteer and take on additional work frequently already. I now feel like I have to horse trade with my manager because if I do anything outside my scheduled work should it count toward a PTO day?

    Am I being entitled?

    1. The Tin Man*

      That sounds to me like a really weird setup, especially where the merits have to be debated by management. Is that really the best use of everyone’s time? It sounds like you’d be doing more than 8 hours of work just trying to justify the additional work you’re already doing is worth an extra vacation day.

      1. boredatwork*

        The assumption is that I will work more than 40 hours a week – not all the time – but enough that they used to justify the 6 days with that alone. Now they want us to get creative and take on large time consuming projects on top of our scheduled work??

        That’s what I’m trying to decide. If I want to jump through these hoops for 2 days off (which are precious to me). or just get “sick” more often. We have untracked/limitless sick time.

    2. LCL*

      The whole concept is repulsive to me. ESPECIALLY when you are talking about projects, which by definition involve more than one player. I understand you are stuck with it as long as you work there. You aren’t being entitled at all. Is this a for profit company?

      1. boredatwork*

        Yes it’s for-profit. I have been instrumental in radically improving efficiency, so everyone’s hours have gone from a consistent 45-50 to right at 40, and I think they’re trying to squeeze more juice from the oranges.

    3. BRR*

      You are not being entitled. At least not in a bad way. I think there are perfectly acceptable ways of being entitled, like you’re entitled to your vacation days without having to make sure you’re working hard enough for them. Do they want people to leave? Because this is how you get people to leave. If you have to initiate the conversation about these goals, I would set the bar incredibly low.

      1. boredatwork*

        LOL – I am so trying that. guess we’ll see. I will be doing absolutely zero extra unless it “counts” towards a goal.

    4. Kathenus*

      Echo not being entitled. Now if you got the same amount of PTO, but were told that there were the potential of team-based bonus PTO awards for approved projects, that might be better. But to shift a current benefit to having to be earned or won is nuts and seems like it’ll be demoralizing versus incentivizing.

      1. boredatwork*

        This is exactly how I feel, my department has been doing a lot of this recently. We have some dead weight and I think they’re trying to get them to rise to the occasion but really they’re punishing the hard workers.

  98. CastIrony*

    Hi! Has anyone dealt with their second job only scheduling them when you have to work the first one?

    In my situation, Job B said it’s becoming a problem, but I can’t find someone to cover me at job A on those days. Luckily, I told them that this wouldn’t be an issue from now on because Job A is willing to schedule me around job B (job B puts their schedule our first). I hope it’s not too late, though.

  99. Llellayena*

    Commiseration please…
    I’ve had a sinus infection all week, it’s finally medicated and leaving but I had a crappy night’s sleep last night (anyone know how I can reach Quentin Tarrantino? I might have plot for his next movie based on my dreams…) and I am DRAGGING today. I’ve got a deadline and 3 other things that I should be completing today but I don’t know if I’ll make it to lunch. Any suggestions for a pick-me-up? Or should I just give up and decide monday will be better? Thanks all!

    1. BadWolf*

      Caffeine? Can you sneak off for a 20 minute nap somewhere? Protein rich snack? Chicken noodle soup? Chocolate? Cancel all your weekend plans and snuggle in for 2 days?

    2. CastIrony*

      Mint tea (Mint Medley flavor from Bigelow) has always given me strength when I’ve had a cold, but resting sounds better.

  100. Saradactyl*

    Two Friday gripes I wanna get out of my system:
    1) my one coworker who is really weirdly occupied with how much harder our job was when our department was founded and how much she worked and how stressful it all was. She brings it up constantly and seems really intent on letting me know “it’s going to get really busy in our busy season! Just be prepared!!” WTH?????
    2) people that spell my name wrong after they have to type out my email address to contact me. And my email address is saradactyl@company.com, not s.dactyl@company.com or whatever. You literally had to look at the correct spelling of my first name to contact me and you’re still calling me Sarahdactyl? Ugh.

    Anyways. I’ve been allowed to work from home both today and yesterday and I actually loved it, and my day today is looking pretty painless. Cheers to the rest of the day and the end of a busy week.

  101. Competent, I swear!*

    A couple of weeks ago, while preparing for a job interview in a new field, I asked here for examples of competency-based interview questions under the “customer service” theme, and am delighted to say that not only was my answer to the customer competency question successful, but also the other competencies being tested, and I was offered the post!

    If anyone’s interested, the customer question I was asked was “tell us about a time when you had to change your approach to a task, in order to meet changing customer needs”. Wow! Thankfully I had a couple of possible “change approach due to changing circumstances/priorities” examples ready, one of which was great for this question.

    I loved the other examples AAM readers came up with – you guys are a great resource, thank you, it really helped me prepare. Anyone feel like sharing competency-based questions they’ve heard before, in case there are others in the situation I was in?

    My favourite (when I’m interviewing others) is “tell me about a time you received negative feedback and were able to turn it around for a positive outcome”.

  102. ContemporaryIssued*

    This is so silly, but a few weeks back I posted here how my company is changing everything but the logo. Well, turns out they are also changing the logo! I saw the new one and I really dislike it. I’m stunned it has past the okay, but I guess in a messiness and business of a huge re-org people didn’t have time to re-think the color scheme of a logo.

    I’m really wondering how this job is going to look on my CV when I eventually leave. I guess something like:

    Porridge Pals, 2018- (formerly Cute Oats, subsidiary Southern Rolled Oats for 2018)

    I worked for the subsidiary, now the main company, and now the main company is changing its name. Jeez.

  103. Bird*

    I posted a couple of weeks ago (link to original post in my username – I hope) asking for some guidance on choosing between two equally-attractive jobs. I wanted to share a quick update on how that went:

    I ended up choosing the large state university position; I called my supervisors to give notice first thing in the morning on March 4, and my first day in the new job is on Monday. I decided that it was a better fit with my career goals and interests and I cannot wait to get started!

    I also, of course, contacted my HR contact at the large company to decline that position; she then told me that they would love to have me apply again in the future. I am happy to still have that option, since I don’t know what the next few years will hold.

    2. Mr. Shark*

      Congratulations! It does sound like the uni job is the right move, and the large company is always an option in the future if the large state university job ends in 2 years or doesn’t develop into something interesting in the future.

  104. Crylo Ren*

    How would you phrase a “soft intro” between a salesperson and someone at your company?
    A salesperson from one of my former employers (not someone I worked with personally – he was hired after I left) reached out to me on LinkedIn and asked if I would be amenable to making a “soft intro” to someone at my current employer. I’m not opposed to facilitating that (I’m on good terms with my former employer and I’d like to see them have continued success) but the person he requested an intro to is not someone I work particularly closely with, and I have no idea if the services of my former employer are needed. I was thinking I’d just give my coworker a heads up that if his department had a need for [Thing that Former Employer Sells], I have a contact that I can introduce to him, but otherwise I’d leave it at that. Does that sound OK, or is there anything else I should say?

    1. AnonyMoosewithTea*

      I think that would be the perfect way to handle it. I wouldn’t introduce your former coworker until you know that your current coworker–whom you don’t know very well–has a need for their services.

    2. BRR*

      That’s perfect. I wouldn’t actually connect them. Just let the salesperson know you passed along their contact info if your employer ever needs the product.

      1. Crylo Ren*

        Thanks! That was my thinking too. I’m wary of giving out email addresses when someone hasn’t consented to it.

  105. Orphan Brown*

    I’m trying to move from a freelance career working for myself into a job job, however, two kids later I’m struggling to find something that would support the work-life balance I need. Does anyone here jobshare? What is it like for you and how did you come across it? It sounds perfect for me but I’m not sure how to go about finding a job like that (in my field) nor proposing it. I know there are others in my boat and with my skill set that I could find out there but actually finding a company that would be on board is another story.

  106. Chuck*

    I actually wrote in about this, but doubt it’ll be answered and now it’s a funny story.

    A couple weeks ago my closet door got stuck, trapping me without any work clothes, pants, and all but one pair of shoes! I live in an awful, fee-happy apartment, so I tried to get the door open by unscrewing the doorknob etc. but that didn’t work, and I didn’t want to do anything that could damage the door. And this was 7 PM on a Sunday night, so no maintenance until at least after one workday. I ended up borrowing oversized, almost-nice clothes from my roommate (who is several sizes bigger than me) and my sister (who is several sizes smaller) for most of the week. (No one else I know really has professional clothes; we’re all in our early 20s and I’m the only one not in school.) Maintenance FINALLY showed up and got the door open by chiseling through about 15 of the 30 layers of paint on everything in that apartment.

    It was a fun week. I spent most of my work days trying to pull sweaters down to cover my butt, since the only pants I had access to were leggings. My boss knew about the situation and was pretty understanding, but it was…not fun.

    2. EddieSherbert*

      Oh my gosh, I’m sorry that happened to you but that made me laugh out loud! It’s a good story at least? And it’s over now!

    3. aeldest*

      Hilarious story–and now I feel better about having a “clothes chair” where I stack all my “not clean enough to hang up, but not dirty enough to wash” clothes in case I’m ever stuck in the same situation!

      1. Chuck*

        I usually have a little pile of work clothes that pass the sniff test on my dresser but had actually done my laundry that weekend. That’ll teach me!

  107. Sylvia*

    I would like to transition to a work-from-home job that I can do anywhere in the world. I live in the US, and am considering living abroad for 3-4 years, at the end of which I’d return and resume my normal career as a teacher. (I’m not wealthy, so I’d need to work during this time.) Does anyone else do this, and what type of jobs are available?

    I don’t speak any other languages, but I may be able to pick up additional skills to make myself more employable if I know which areas to target.

    1. Minerva McGonagall*

      Maybe online tutoring or working remotely for an online/global university (either as staff or maybe adjunct professor for education/your subject).

    2. NACSACJACK*

      Medical transcription. As long as you have a laptop and a WiFi signal you can work anywhere. the profession does have some certifications you can get that will help enable you to get gigs.

    3. Rainy days*

      I see a lot of ads for online English teachers (often teaching remotely to China). However, if you are a teacher you can likely be very competitive applying to teach at international / American schools abroad, which will often pay for housing and leave you will a lot of disposable income to travel during breaks. I hear the course loads and class sizes are super cushy and awesome after teaching in the US.

      1. I Took A Mint*

        Seconding English teaching. With your background as a teacher, you can make bank in most non-English-speaking countries around the world. You can also do lessons online through various language-learning services with adults or children, pay varies for these.

  108. But you don't have an accent...*

    Question about a difficult situation at work. I have a coworker who, after two years on the job, is still highly incapable of doing it.

    We do software consulting, and while the software can get pretty complicated, there are somethings that I would expect someone who was here for more than 6 months in that role to know. I am not a manager, we’re technically peers. This coworker has been on thin ice for a while, and one of the ways she hides her inability to do her job is to go around and ask other people for “help” until someone does it for her. She has been told not to do this multiple times.

    Yesterday, she was supposed to give a demo to a client, and couldn’t figure out how to do a relatively simple thing. Her options were to try to fix it or explain it away. Well, instead of sitting down, and going to the correct area to fix it (or explaining that the system is highly configurable and how this is a demo site, but XYZ won’t show up/would look different), she skyped people until she found someone to do it for her (because she “didn’t know how”). The person she asked happened to be on another client site with me and was unable to get the software to load. The person she asked also had to ask me how to do it because this person didn’t know (the person who is with me I would not expect to know the answer, as she is in a different role). The person with me emailed her back and said she wasn’t able to do it. Now, we’ve all had that happen or had our brains go blank at the exact wrong time, but this has been a consistent issue. My question is – do I alert management to the fact that she still doesn’t know how to do pretty basic things? Or do I keep my mouth shut.? While I shouldn’t “know” that she’s been having issues, I was one of the people who pointed some of her more egregious issues out to management and it’s pretty obvious she is struggling really badly, despite one-on-one attention from multiple managers and senior team members.

    1. ChimericalOne*

      It’s perfectly fine to give her boss a heads up that this happened again yesterday, if they didn’t know. Just tell them in a matter-of-fact way. She’s been told not to do this, so they’ll want to know it happened, and they might not if you didn’t say anything.

      It can just be, “I’m not sure if you were aware of this, but yesterday, while Anya was doing a demo for Client X, she was trying to do Z — which of course needs to be done a little differently on the demo site. Instead of explaining this to the client, she Skyped various people to try to figure this out, including Sansa, who was with me at Client Y. I’m concerned that this doesn’t look very good to our clients, and it was disrupted to our work at Client Y. I thought you might want to know that this happened.”

    2. Midlife Tattoos*

      I think it’s fair to let your manager know what you’re seeing. If one of my employees was still going around asking for help to get people to do their job, I would want to know. I actually had employee like this, and she went to great lengths to hide that she couldn’t do her job. I appreciated getting heads-up from my other staff.

    3. Kathenus*

      I agree that letting your manager know that it happened again would be a good idea, since coworker was specifically asked to not ask others to help/do things for her anymore. But I’d stick to your role in it – ‘person x (Jane) asked me to do help with coworker’s demo yesterday, because coworker reached out to Jane but Jane didn’t know how to fix the problem. I know that we weren’t supposed to be helping out coworker right now as she’s learning to do these things on her own, so I wanted to let you know this happened.’

      Don’t get into more details about the specifics of coworker and Jane’s discussions on this, just focus on the specific part where you were asked to get involved.

    4. Rey*

      Say something now for everyone’s sake I’ve been the client on the receiving end of this, and it sucks so bad. It took us 6 months to get transferred to a different consultant, and delayed our software implementation by a year. We are still sorting through the site to identify problems from the first consultant.

    5. Someone Else*

      Tell them. You sound like me two years ago. I spoke up. Person was put on PIP. Person is now gone. They lasted 18 months longer in that role than they should’ve and it was painfully obvious to me they were never going to “get it” within 3 months. You will be doing yourself and your team (and all the people she’s disrupting to do things for her) a favor if you tell someone in a position of authority, dispassionately, that she’s just not improving and definitely not capable of doing the gig. Bring stats if you have them.

  109. NM Anon*

    I am starting a new job that offers a state pension. I am in my mid thirties and am concerned that when I reach retirement age, the money simply won’t be there. I am in New Mexico. The retirement plan’s financial woes have been in the news lately. There are other retirement plans aside from the pension, but they contribute more to the state pension. I don’t really know how to figure where to put my money for retirement. (Also, there are days when I feel like the best retirement plan might be an underground survivalist bunker, but I hope that won’t be the case!)

    1. CheeryO*

      I’m in the same boat in a different state. The pension fund is supposedly strong, but it doesn’t feel good to trust it blindly. I’m putting as much as I can afford into a 457(b) account as a contingency plan. Check to see if your union (if you’re in one) offers financial advising services as a benefit. We can make annual appointments for free consultations, and it’s extremely helpful.

      1. CheeryO*

        I should say that it’s mandatory for employees who were hired after a certain date to contribute to the pension fund, at a rate that scales with salary. It’s around 3-4 percent for me, so anything else I save is on top of that.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I’ve worked for state universities for almost 10 years but I’ve never put my money in the state pension plan. Not knowing if I’d work there long enough to be vested, it didn’t seem wise. Higher ed usually has access to the same 403B companies, so I’ve kept my retirement funds in the same place despite job changes.

    3. None the Wiser*

      I worked for a state university for the better part of a decade. I opened a 403(b) when I started and contributed to that for my tenure there. After I left, a shortly before my 50th birthday, I received a letter stating “we got your pension, what’dya wanna do with it?” Huh? I had no idea I was contributing to a pension fund. Anyway, that’s a long-winded way of asking, can you do both?

      (The fund appears to be stable, so I’m leaving it there for the time being. At some point, I will have to begin taking payments, but we’re not there yet.)

  110. Minerva McGonagall*

    Can anyone share experiences as a Graduate Assistant? What made it good? What made it hard? My division is hoping to add them back next academic year, and I was never a GA so I don’t have any personal stories to help support our proposal.

    1. merp*

      I’m sure it depends hugely on the field but I’m a librarian and where I went to library school, the place was half-run by grad assistants, haha. I appreciated the chance to have specific professional development, being encouraged to ask anyone in the library if there are projects I could work on with them, and attending candidate talks when the university was hiring. I did not appreciate the lack of clarity around stipend/benefits/etc nearly as much, and of course the pay was terrible. But overall it was a good experience.

      1. Minerva McGonagall*

        Thank you for sharing! We’re student affairs so there’s lots around to do/create haha. Lack of clarity is something we really want to avoid.

    2. fposte*

      What kind of GA–professional, research, teaching? Is this for master’s level or doctoral level, professional degree or research degree? Will it give people tuition remission they wouldn’t otherwise have?

      I work mostly, but not entirely, with professional and research GAs at the master’s level, and it is the golden opportunity here–we don’t do tuition remission at the master’s level otherwise. Our GAs get excellent experience that puts them head and shoulders above the competition come job-hunting time. Generally they are high-commitment exempt positions so it’s not uncommon to work more than the listed time percentage (I know in the hard sciences this is a particular complaint among TAs). In bad ones that means you’re cheap grading fodder for the university at the expense of getting your own work done; in good ones you’re getting profile, experience, access you wouldn’t have had plus possible additional tuition benefits.

      Be aware, if it’s relevant, that tuition remission for professional GAships, unlike RAships and TAships, is taxable. I think you’re probably talking PhD RAships and TAships so it won’t matter, but that’s a savage surprise if you’re not expecting it so I wanted to mention it.

      1. Minerva McGonagall*

        Professional master’s level across student affairs departments for students mostly enrolled in a higher ed counseling program (but open to other masters programs). It would give students a full tuition remission plus a stipend. For my department, they’d get the opportunity to pitch and run events, co-present in workshops, and meet with students.

        I didn’t know that about the tax! Thanks for sharing that. Is it similar or the same as that first 5000-ish rule? Dealt with that when working full time and getting my masters.

        1. fposte*

          Okay, then this maps onto my experience pretty well, and I would say they are incredibly valuable to students like that.

          And yes, it’s the first $5250; sounds like you’re across this, but it can be a real shock to GAs who get nothing taken out for a few months and then a big bite. The university at large isn’t always on top of it since it RAs and TAs are exempted and those are the majority of GAs, so it’s good for a department like yours to keep students in the loop from the get-go.

  111. What’s with Today, today?*

    My boss had to fire someone today. He’d been with us almost a year, the first job out of college. He was given a million chances and warnings and just totally half-assed everything and got caught in more than one lie (big, work affecting lies). I started advocating for his firing during the fall. I’m glad it finally happened, but he cried, which sucks.

    1. ChimericalOne*

      I’m glad for your sake that they were finally able to let him go. Hopefully, it’s a learning experience for him.

  112. kristinemc*

    I’ve been doing accounting for 10 years now, but that is not what my degree is in – I have a BA and MFA in the arts. I have an accounting certificate from a community college, but there were no tests or grades to get that, you simply had to take the classes.

    There have been significant changes at my job in the past year, and I’m having some trouble adjusting – the chain of command has changed a little, the boss I deal with most of the time is remote, and we don’t communicate well, etc.

    When I look for other jobs, almost all of them “require” a bachelor degree in accounting. I really really do not want to pay for this and go back to school – any suggestions? I’d be willing to do some sort of online school, but aren’t most of the online schools bad?

    It worries me that if they decide I’m no longer a good fit, I’ll have to take a serious pay cut and may not be able to get a similar job!

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      “Aren’t most of the online schools bad?” No. Many regular brick and mortar schools have online programs that are indistinguishable from the in-person ones. Just research carefully and avoid for-profit schools like U of Phoenix.

    2. ArtK*

      It all depends on the school. The ones with a bad rep are the for-profit ones. As Adulting Fairy pointed out, many well-known universities have online programs. I did my master’s mostly online (weird hybrid program) at UCLA. In my search for a program, I saw many important schools offering something online.

    3. fposte*

      There are accountants around here but they may not be reading AAM much this time of year :-). I’d certainly want to talk to an accountant about this before deciding to do a whole nother BA. I just found a page about how to qualify for a CPA without a degree in accounting, for instance, which, depending on your state, might be better move than a bachelor’s.

        1. fposte*

          I mostly remember the ones who complain about tax time :-). Glad you don’t suffer that curse.

      2. Tmarie*

        I am an accountant with a non-traditional BA from a liberal arts college. I started working in accounting departments and firms doing accounting functions at the tender age of 19.

        I had had my AS in Business Management for ten years before I made a decision to get my BA. I went nights and weekends to a touchy feely amazing Liberal Arts college and when I had my degree, my boss got me a promotion to Senior Accountant so I wouldn’t leave the company I was with.

        About three years later I learned that I wasn’t “allowed” to do some of the more senior tasks for my job title because my degree was “wrong”. After months of research I decided to become eligible to take the CPA exam, even though I knew I would never take the exam by doing a year of on-line accounting classes. These classes were through University of Phoenix. Yeah, that place, but it was the one of only two on-line places at the time. And my job duties AND pay increased. It did pay for itself.

        So, I had been doing accounting work for thirty years when my company folded. So, because I was a Senior Accountant in an industry, and my BA was from a touchy feely liberal arts college, it took me almost three years to get a comparable job somewhere else. And I feel a bit less technically savvy about the rules than a more BS in Accounting degree might have made me?

        My advice, if you can get the degree, ESPECIALLY if your current company will pay for it, take the time and get it. Those three years decimated my 401k, my confidence in my abilities and caused problems that still echo in my life three years into this good job.

    4. Natalie*

      Hey, I’m a non-accounting BA that is in accounting! Thoughts: Generally speaking, accounting professionals are in REALLY high demand right now, so this is a great time to take some chances and see what’s available out there.

      Since you have a BA, and you have an accounting certificate, just go ahead and apply to jobs that you are otherwise qualified for, even if they list an Accounting BA as required. Some of them may well ignore you, but others won’t, and the only way you find out the difference is by applying! ( I might leave the MFA off your resume just because it isn’t really relevant or particularly strengthening for an accounting job.)

      The other tactic I found helpful was working with outside recruiters (plural). Some companies only hire through recruiters, for one. Recruiters also have a more candid conversations with employers about what the employer actually needs, so they can filter out companies that are open to a non traditional background and pull out and highlight parts of your background that might be especially interesting to that employer.

      If and when you do decide to do more school, I’d look at a Masters in Accounting (MAcc) program designed for non-Accounting BA. There’s nothing a second bachelors is going to get you that a Masters won’t and the MAcc program will be shorter and more focused.

      1. boredatwork*

        I have no better advice than all of this – I am a CPA – Get a master’s degree and your CPA – If you want to go the education route.

        I would use a recruiter, they will help you apply for jobs and can help talk up your candidacy to the hiring managers. It’s really going to be a crap-shoot if the company is hung up on what education you have or would rather have a good employee.

        It is an extremely tight and competitive market where I’m at (hiring wise).

    5. TotesMaGoats*

      You could consider doing a second bachelor’s program. Basically, you’d just do the accounting classes. My university offers an upper division accounting certificate to give you the accounting classes you’d need. Those are options too. Online is just a modality. You want to look at the kind of school it is and avoid the for-profits or anything that isn’t regionally accredited. You might also consider schools that are AACSB accredited business/accounting programs. It’s the best program accreditation out there for that field.

    7. Pam*

      My campus has a Master’s of Science in Accountancy degree. Students without Accounting degrees waive some prerequisite courses, but any degree can get you in.

  113. Moving*

    I’m asking for flexible working with change to normal location to working from home – this is because I’m going to move several hundred miles away in near future. Local department manager isn’t convinced I can do some duties remotely. Line manager (also global department manager) is overseas, and seems 50/50.

    (Note in UK so have legal right to have a flexible working request considered once a year, and there must be legitimate business reasons to refuse it. “You can’t do X part of role effectively without speaking to stakeholders in person” could be a legitimate business reason.)

    So while that’s going on, I mentioned to an old friend on linkedin, who said “let me get my recruitment guy to email you” … long story short, that was just over a week ago – within 24 hours of my initial chat with pal, I’d spoken to recruitment manager, who asked me to send him my CV, and on reviewing it asked me when I’d be available to travel to offices meet them.

    So I had in-person interview two day ago which included meeting with 2 high-ups and some technical tests. It went well – BigBoss is in next week, and it’s likely I’ll have a phone interview with them.

    All good, right? And I know this is diamond shoes too tight type of problem… but this is really stressing me out as I love my current boss(es), colleagues, work… and I would feel really guilty if they say “yes, you can work from home!” and I turn it down.

    But then if I get offered newJob (not counting chickens, but have good feeling about it)… then would feel guilty about turning it down.

    I’ve done this before. When I got this job I was nearly sick with anxiety when I had to choose between it and another offer because they were all so *NICE* and I didn’t want to say no…

    Yes, this is a ridiculous problem, and I know I’m really, really lucky to have this “problem” … if it even happens… but does anyone have any insight on what to do to make it easier if I do decide to resign from a place that has become a dream job because of the culture fit, lovely co-workers and fantastic bosses?

    1. Not A Manager*

      It’s okay to set up some boundaries in your own mind. It’s a blessing to enjoy your work and your co-workers – but it’s still work and not home, and they are still colleagues and not family. If they needed to let you go, they’d be sorry but it wouldn’t stop them doing what they needed to do.

      The same thing applies to the potential new job offer. If they offer you the job, it’s because that’s a good business decision for them and they would benefit from it. It’s not primarily to do you a service or even primarily because they “like” you. If you turn them down, that would be disappointing to them as a business, but not personally hurtful to them.

      TL:DR – “Tell Mike it was only business. I always liked him.”

      1. Moving*

        Thanks :) That is the issue I think – I tend to want to avoid hurting people personally, and need to take a step back. I think what’s fuelling it here is that in both situations I’ve asked for a favour – to work from home almost full-time and asking my friend for contacts. Both of them feel like it’s been pushed over the personal line.

  114. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

    My boss keeps Very Strongly Hinting that in the next month or so I can be expecting “excellent news from (grandboss),” which will be either a larger than usual raise or a promotion, and this has been in the works for a few months now. Whatever the outcome is, they have to tell me before the end of April, because whatever it is has to be effective on April 28th. (And I told my boss that if they want to interrupt my Disney vacation in April to call me about it, not only will I not mind, but it’d be awesome, because both my initial offer to work for the organization and also my last promotion offer were phone calls I received while at Disneyworld, so why not continue the trend.)

    On top of that, my husband just got an offer letter for HIS couple-months-in-the-works promotion this morning. Good month coming up in the Adulting Fairy household.

  115. Amber Rose*

    OK. I like our new employee well enough. She’s pretty nice and does her work and learns what she can.
    And on a personal note, I tune out mostly everything around me most of the time anyway.

    New employee is a singer. She sings, constantly, in that high pitched whine people take on when they whisper-sing under their breath. And I can’t tune it out! It’s driving me bonkers and setting off every sensitivity to sound I’ve ever had. I already asked her to stop, but it’s like a habit and she keeps doing it at random and I’m quickly losing my sanity over it. She’s doing it right now!

    I wish I was allowed both of my headphones. ;_;

    1. ChimericalOne*

      “Hey, you probably didn’t realize it — you’re doing it again!” said with an understanding smile and a sympathetic tone, if you can manage it!

      And then, next time, maybe, “Yo, Sally! …I’m just going to say, ‘Yo’ whenever you start singing — okay? We need to train you out of this!” (again, said nicely, and not like you’re mad at her. If she’s agreed that she should stop, she’ll probably be embarrassed but appreciate your reminders!)

    2. EddieSherbert*

      I suppose this could get old really, really fast but I’d try reacting everytime (or at least a couple times a day when) she does it for awhile. She already knows you don’t like it (and maybe said she’d “try to stop” or something?), so I’d take that as permission to actively help her try to stop.

      “What? Did you say something?”
      “Oh, I keep thinking you’re talking to me.”
      “Jane, you’re singing.”
      “Jane, you’re doing it again!”

      I have a coworker who sits next to me that tends to swear loudly/have outbursts when they get an email or see a message or post they don’t like (anddddd they do a lot of troubleshooting!). I did that for awhile and it seems to have helped (it still happens a few times a week – but it used to be a few times daily!).

    3. Youth*

      Soooo about two weeks ago, a coworker of mine was let go. She wasn’t awesome at her job, but her supervisor is a bit of a pushover, so she was let go due to “personality fit.” Admittedly, her personality fit WAS terrible. Among other things, she sang while she was working and had a high-pitched, breathy voice that really grated on everyone around her.

      I doubt it’s the same person, but it would be amusing if it was.

        1. valentine*

          Can you email (in the subject line) or IM her a musical note each and every time? Or a musical note plus a “no” symbol.

  116. halfwolf*

    I have my very first phone interview Monday! Dunno why I haven’t done one before, but I haven’t. Any tips? I know I tend to space out on long phone calls, so I’ll have a notebook with me to keep focused, but any other advice would be welcome!

    1. merp*

      I usually take advantage of being on the phone to have a few questions that I expect to be asked prepped with notes right in front of me. It probably sounds a bit silly but phones conversations make me more nervous so I answer “tell us about yourself” or “why are you interested in this position” on the phone a lot better when I have some words I’ve already practiced right in front of me.

      1. halfwolf*

        Thanks! I’m definitely planning to have some of those notes with me as I also get flustered on the phone. Nice to know I’m not alone there.

        1. merp*

          It’s something about not being able to see their reactions and really connect, for me at least.

          Good luck!

    2. Akcipitrokulo*

      Make sure you’ve got a good place to do it – do a test call to someone else first to make sure it isn’t too echo-y and you can be heard clearly.

      Take a drink of water with you.

      Chances are slowing down would be good – most people talk far faster on a phone interview than they think they do.

      Write down a few notes to remind yourself of points you want to bring up, but don’t write down the actual answer you’re planning to give – people can tell over the phone if’ you’re reading from a script.

      Physically smiling makes your voice sound more positive!

      Other than that – good luck!

      1. halfwolf*

        Thank you thank you! I’m most nervous about where I’m going to take this call; I’m in NYC so no car to duck into. I scoped out a nearby hotel, and there are a couple public atria nearby that I can probably duck into. An appropriate place for a phone interview in midtown is probably graded on a curve (or so I hope!).

    3. Kathenus*

      I won’t speak to where to do it because all my phone interviews I’ve arranged to be at home. What’s helped me a lot is to have ‘cheat sheets’ – sheets of paper with bullet points for more commonly asked questions – goals, strengths, weaknesses, achievements, whatever. But for me, having each of these on a separate sheet with a big heading at the top makes it easier to quickly find the info to help refer to if needed in my answers versus trying to scan one sheet with lots of different topics. And as was already mentioned, having one for your questions for them, and a hard copy of your resume and the job posting/description to refer to. Good luck!

  117. Seeking Second Childhood*

    About the construction… I never did go to the Health&Safety officer because I learned why they didn’t seal off the area — there’s a department that never stopped working in that area. That (electronics) lab wouldn’t have had required fire access if the areas had been sealed off by solid barriers. I have to wonder what the bad air did to their lungs — and honestly to their testing results.
    The great dust storm is long over, and now we’re “just” smelling carpet & paint fumes. Theoretically that will dissipate by Monday. I sure hope so because I’ve had headaches since Tuesday.

  118. Non-profiteer*

    This is just an interesting hypothetical: what if you got a job application from one of the kids who, it is now known, had parents who bought their way into an elite college? How would you factor that in? What if the applicant claimed they had no idea their parents did this?

    1. this ain't a scene*

      1) How would you know?
      2) Why would it matter?
      3) If you think it actually matters, are you prepared to have a serious conversation with the person about the situation and what they’ve done about it and about their entire personal history that led up to it?

  119. Ra94*

    I’m currently in a job I hate, which fits my schedule perfectly…and I don’t know how to search for a replacement position, because this one just fell into my lap. I’m on somewhat of an involuntary gap year: I recently finished law school in the UK after a politics undergrad and got my dream job at a big firm…but it starts in March 2020, so I’ve got a year to fill in the US while I wait it out. This was not my plan (some heartbreak was involved), and so to avoid feeling trapped in my miserable childhood suburb, I’m using this as my last chance to travel freely and will be spending about 4 months out of the next year travelling- 2-3 months here, 1 month gone, or thereabouts.

    For the past 5 months, I’ve been working as a contract-based paralegal/law clerk work for a sole practitioner, who is totally chill with me writing motions remotely while I travel, or just taking a month off before coming back. But in all other ways, it’s a nightmare job with awful hours, toxic boss. And even with the travel breaks, I can’t imagine surviving it for another year.

    But…I’m at a loss as to how to search for a similarly flexible position (or multiple 2-3 month gigs). I’ve been doing some freelance writing through Upwork, but jobs there don’t pay much, and I’d prefer to not to work exclusively from home, although a mixture of freelance writing + volunteering could work. I’ve thought about unpaid internships- I wouldn’t mind doing unpaid if it was a really worthy cause- or paid internships, but it feels hard to explain I’m not looking for a permanent position or even to stay in the US permanently. Should I be looking at temp jobs? Could I do a short stint (paid or unpaid) for a presidential campaign? I’m kind open to anything that’ll keep me from going crazy.

    1. Rainy days*

      I think try to find work through either a temp agency or something explicitly seasonal (e.g. summer ice cream scooper, Christmas retail worker). Even for an internship 2-3 month stints are quite short and you should be upfront about your timeline when you apply.

      1. Ra94*

        Thanks, that makes sense! I hadn’t thought about seasonal work, but that could be handy for the summer- I live near a really cute family-run ice cream shop, and a stint there might be a good detox from screaming attorneys.

    2. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Not so much advice on what to do now, but I’m wondering how you’ll feel about your environment once you’re a first-year associate at a big firm, where awful hours are part of the experience and toxic bosses are notoriously common.

      1. OpenOffice*

        I put up with a lot more in my career than I would in a dead-end position that I knew had an expiration date – this does not seem like a red flag about the OP’s future in any way.

        1. Ra94*

          Yeah, exactly- this position has basically nothing to do with my future career and I don’t need Crazy Boss’s reference particularly badly, so there’s no sense of ‘toughing it out’ for a future reward. If anything, I’m worried about burning out on this nonsense job and then not having a fresh start at my proper job next year.

      2. Ra94*

        Mm, I agree about hours and toxic bosses, but this job is very different from a big firm. I could (and will!) write SO much about this workplace. The problem isn’t the amount of work or staying late, but that the entire role is based around catering to the whims of one very crazy, very narcissistic boss. It’s hard to explain how bad it is in brief, but…she uses the n word, she misclassifies all of her staff, there’s no health insurance, sick days, or paid time off, she regularly skirts legal ethics, she calls us at 3 am…it’s not just bad, it’s crazy town. Boss is also from Eastern European Country, as are all her staff, and my family, which is how I found the position- which means the workplace norms are even more out of whack, and our clients are also okay with yelling and being yelled at. And there’s 4 of us in the office, so it’s very full-on.

        Much of the work is also very, very rote and I feel like my brain is melting away. My job is ostensibly to draft motions, but what that means is I’ll arrive at 9 am, write the motion by 1 pm, and wait for Boss to arrive. She’ll storm in at 4 pm, spend an hour loudly telling a tale about how excellent she is, start looking over my motion at 5 pm, then stand over my shoulder while she dictates grammatically incorrect crazytown nonsense to insert into all of my carefully crafted paragraphs. By the time I leave at 9 pm, I’m not exhausted from the workload- I’m exhausted from being treated like a narcissist’s puppet.

        There are some very entertaining moments- I’ve started a list of her most narc-y outbursts (from the time she made 9/11 all about her, to the time she made the college admissions scandal all about her). But it’s just not sustainable. I actually can’t wait to be a real associate and do real work with real people, even if the hours are long and the bosses are mean!

  120. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    Short version: I’m currently in the process of navigating my husband’s job change two weeks before closing on a house…I think it’s giving me an ulcer.

    Long version: We recently moved across the country for my career, and he had a tough time finding a job. He came in second place on three different jobs in his field before taking a “jobby” job to pay the bills. It’s a fine job, but not what he wants to be doing, the hours are terrible, and it’s a ~90 minute commute. He’s had several instances of needing to leave early for “dentist appointments” (of which 1 was a real dentist and like 4 were interviews), and now has accepted an offer for an amazing job at my workplace – yay!!

    The problem is, it’s a terrible time for his employer. Out of their 5 employees, one recently left due to a terrible medical diagnosis, and two are on vacation next week. His boss is stressed and upset and taking it out on my husband. Hubs needs to leave an hour early on Monday for a pre-employment drug test, which he told his boss was a cavity filling. Boss first tried to tell him he couldn’t go, then demanded a doctor’s note. We’re at the point where he’s seriously considering leaving without notice because he doesn’t want to take the abuse he’ll surely face in the next two weeks.

    On the other hand, we’re due to close on a house in two weeks. I’ve talked to my lender and it *shouldn’t* be a problem, but I’m so afraid of messing everything up, or god forbid Hubs leaves his job under bad circumstances and something goes wrong with this new job (though that is highly unlikely). He would basically need to start the new job in time to get a paycheck at the end of the month (so like next Wednesday) or wait until after we close on the house…. argh!

    Thanks for listening to my venting, I just needed to get it off my chest.

  121. Nacho*

    I applied for a position as team lead this week. I don’t honestly expect to get it, partially because there are more experienced agents on my team, and partially because my role isn’t seen as being on the path to team lead position, despite being only one rung lower on the hierarchy. Still, I figured there’s no harm in applying, right?

    1. ArtK*

      Absolutely no harm. You’re signalling that this is something you want to move into. If turned down, that’s a perfect opportunity to talk to your boss about career path. “Hey boss, how do I get on the path to team lead?”

    2. Middle Manager*

      No harm. Especially if you’re realistic about your chances and you’re willing to support the person who gets it (if it’s not you). I think interviewing every once and awhile keeps you fresh in that area too.

  122. KiwiInNYC*

    I’m a New Zealander living in the US. Is it surprising that none of my colleagues have mentioned yesterday’s horrific terrorist attack? Everyone knows I’m a Kiwi. I love my job, but I can’t help but feel hurt.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I wouldn’t have said anything either. It feels unkind to bring up tragedy at work, when many people use work to distract themselves from such things.

      1. this ain't a scene*

        I wouldn’t have said anything. There was a terrorist attack in the city I came from, and got a lot questions from folks trying to be well-meaning and I hated every moment of it, since I was there to focus on my job and did not want to think about what had happened back home; it was horrible enough seeing news coverage where I knew exactly everything about where the newscaster was standing. I wanted work at work and home at home. I even had someone schedule a time to talk to me just to ask if I was doing okay. What, did they want me to start crying? I wouldn’t bring it up with someone and would let them set the tone.

    2. Captain Vegetable (Crunch Crunch Crunch)*

      I could see them not wanting to mention it in case it upset you. It’s often hard to know how an individual will react to certain situations.

      If it helps any, you have my sympathies and condolences.

    3. Anax*

      Unless your job directly involves the news – when they SHOULD at least be aware – I wouldn’t take it as a personal slight. They probably either haven’t heard the news yet, or they don’t know how to respond.

      Honestly… a lot of Americans just take mass shootings for granted at this point. They happen so often here that we forget that’s a very abnormal state of affairs. A lot of folks also just… don’t check the news very often, because it’s depressing and stressful to be constantly engaged with. A lot of us also aren’t sure whether it’s appropriate to bring up tragedies – they might be a sore subject that folks would rather not have brought up.

      Tragedies are complicated; take your coworkers’ general care for you as the guide, not whether they’ve responded correctly to this particular event.

    4. fposte*

      I think also Americans often have a big-country sensibility where most tragedies are viewed as local/regional rather than national, so in that frame it actually feels slightly rude to assume you need to talk to a person about a tragedy just because it’s in their country.

      (I also think the sheer shock level is going to be harder for Americans to parse, for sadly obvious reasons.)

      1. Lilysparrow*

        Yes, this “big country” idea may be a factor.

        The year before Hurricane Sandy, we had horrific, unprecedented storms in my state and others nearby that wiped out entire cities. IIRC, more people died in my state alone than in Sandy globally. I was hunkered with my kids in the bathroom for hours, it was nightmarish.

        After Sandy struck, 1000 miles away, I had international friends dinging me on social media to “check in” on my safety and expressing concern & condolences.

        I…did not feel condoled. Sandy had nothing to do with me, and my real experience was invisible to them. I felt pissed and offended that the news cycle is driven by the property value of the houses damaged, not the lives lost.

        So, though the tragedy is awful and I do feel for you, as a coworker I probably wouldn’t bring it up unless I knew you had a local or personal connection of some kind.

        Because as awful as it is, how am I to know whether it is a “Sandy” situation, and there is some much worse thing that I’m ignorant of?

        It’s totally normal that you may want some support, it’s horrible. Feel free to bring it up, I’m sure your coworkers are more than willing to give that support. They just may not know if it’s welcome.

    5. Paper Librarian*

      Are you Muslim? I wonder if your colleagues mistakenly believe this is only an issue of concern to them?

      I’m on the other side of the situation, in which I am a white American wondering how to address this tragedy with my co-workers and my patrons. Nobody has mentioned it so far, and it feels so weird to me because it’s all I can think about.

      My University is decently diverse, and I saw a young woman wearing a hijab come into the library with her child. I looked at her and smiled, and she smiled back, but I wanted to do more to show support. I wanted to tell her that University Libraries stand with her. I wanted to tell her that if she ever experiences discrimination on campus that she can talk to us about it. I didn’t because I wasn’t sure if that would make her feel even more singled out.

      Usually, when I feel hurt by world events like this, I put energy into making a book display to inform the public of unique topics that they might not have to encounter on a daily basis. I just took down my BLM/BHM display. Next month we will put up a display for Sexual Assault Awareness. I definitely want to reach out to the community and see if I can put together a good display about Muslim community.

    6. LCL*

      Because of the time difference, the attack is fresh news this morning. It will take them awhile to talk about it and process it and figure out what to say to you, decide if they should say it, then seek you out. Sometimes Americans can be really conscious of trying not to be the person that asks the foreign born person about bad headline news.

      We were talking about it here at our morning meeting. Most didn’t want to talk about it at all; the ones that did were quite upset. I offer my condolences and I’m sorry this happened.

    7. Overeducated*

      I think it’s a little surprising, yeah, it seems normal to me to at least express concern and sympathy. Especially for someone from a relatively small country where it seems like things might hit closer to home. I’m sorry about all of this.

    8. I'm (kind of) with Her*

      Oh wow. I had not heard about the attack. I don’t watch the news and only check news about once a day online. I wouldn’t feel hurt. It may very well be likely that many of your coworkers haven’t heard about it.

    9. Akcipitrokulo*

      I’m so sorry. I’m in UK and we’re all horrified by the news today. I hope your loved ones are safe, but even if they are, it’s such a dreadful thing to see in your home.

      Maybe they feel awkward? I’d guess don’t know how to start a “oh, sorry to see your country’s had a terrorist attack” conversation? Maybe worried you don’t want to talk about it? Or possibly not drawn the connection?

      Whatever, i’d put it down to awkwardness not nastiness.

      And I’m sorry again.

    10. Middle Manager*

      So sorry! We’ve all been thinking about New Zealand today at my office. No Kiwis here, so we’ll send those thoughts and prayers along to you!

    11. anon today and tomorrow*

      Not really. I don’t talk about tragedies at work because I don’t really want to share those emotions with my coworkers. I have friends and family for that, and it feels weird to bring that into the workplace where I don’t know people well enough to know if they want to discuss something tragic.

      Some people don’t want to get into it at work. When the Orlando shooting happened a few years ago, some coworkers who knew I was bi kept trying to mention it. It was well-meaning, but they weren’t the ones I wanted to grieve with. I didn’t want to talk about it with them. It was honestly a relief when I was around people who didn’t bring it up at all.

      It might be more of a case of people trying to be sensitive rather than intentionally ignoring it.

    13. Wishing You Well*

      I’ll bet a lot of your colleagues want to say something thoughtful and constructive, but don’t know what to say.
      I’m very sorry it happened and I want it to never happen again.

    14. elemenohp*

      I’d be afraid of mentioning this at work for fear of it potentially opening the door for a heated political argument.

    15. Jersey's mom*

      I grew up in NYC and moved to another part of the country for work. On 9/11 I was at work, and overheard people talking about a plane that had hit one of the towers. I ran to my cubicle and frantically tried to call everyone in my family and my friends and couldn’t get through. I sobbingy told my boss I was going home and (somehow) drove back to my house. No one said another word, and in fact, everyone clammed up about 9/11 for a couple of weeks afterward.

      It can be really difficult to figure out whether it’s appropriate to discuss a mass tragedy at work, especially during the immediate aftermath.

      Some people may not have been directly impacted (ie were not injured, or lost a loved one), but may have been profoundly injured emotionally by the event for different reasons.

      Your coworkers may not have known of the occurrance, may not have realized the magnitude of the tragedy for your country, or may have wanted to allow you a pain free zone, where coworkers didn’t want to upset you by talking about it again and again.

      I’m so sorry you feel this way. A tragedy like this impacts everyone.

    16. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would have said something to you, though I would have kept it brief. After the Pittsburgh shootings I got some kind of uncomfortable responses that reinforced my feeling that, “I heard about X. Absolutely horrible. Are your friends and family ok?” is about the extent of what I can handle (I would rather people didn’t come to me crying, for example, because the news just touched them so darn much). But I do think that people are either unaware of many things or they just don’t make the connection between you and yesterday’s events, so I would advise you not to take it as an affront.

  123. Anax*

    What do you do when your brain is melting out your ears?

    I have a pretty cognitively-intense job in IT; I’m a software developer, so I’m either doing creative or complex work, or learning new skills… a lot of the time right now. There are some routine tasks and tasks that take more finesse and an eye for minutia rather than raw knowledge, but they’re significantly in the minority. For instance, right now, my main task is “Figure out how this complex software module works; here’s the manual to read, none of us know anything about it.” Or, say, “Figure out how to improve this website; what would make it look better? We don’t know what’s possible to change.”

    In contrast, easier tasks are things like “answering questions”, “testing the website to make sure it complies with accessibility standards”, “reviewing others’ work”, and “writing documentation.”

    Right now, I’m more heavily skewed toward the first sort of work, partially because I’ve just started a new job and everything is new. The “easy” work I can do is very limited right now – I expect more of a balance before too long.

    And, well… I love this kind of work, but it’s really hard to be smart and creative for 8-9 hours straight! After about six hours, I often feel like my brain’s gone to rubber, and I just don’t have more left in me.

    Is this a sign that I’m bad at my job, or does everyone feel this way? How do I know whether I’m doing “enough”?

    1. Akcipitrokulo*

      More likely to ba a sign you’re good at your job.

      Any way you can intersperse the tasks? If you’re doing agile, take an easier pbi to play with in between the brain wreckers?

      1. Anax*

        I normally try to, but… hm. In my last job, I was a generalist fresh out of college, working with a high-achieving mentor. I was kind of expected to make the impossible happen, output great code, learn new skills, and have a finger on the pulse of the industry, all at once. My mentor had a reputation for being really good, so there was an expectation – partially from outside, partially self-imposed – that I would also be really high-achieving.

        (This did come at the expense of some of the boring stuff. My mentor was kind of a “special forces” guy – he ran in, got things done, and left everyone else to do the boring cleanup like documentation. That can be a valuable guy to have on the team, but it’s not my preferred workstyle; I like to have a little more balance in my work tasks, and I sort of felt pressured to imitate my mentor. He would discourage focus on things like documentation and code review, because “why bother when it will just get out of date?” or “the code should speak for itself”.)

        In my current job, I’m almost an analyst/developer hybrid, and I’m hoping for more balance… but I’ve been on the team for a month, so there aren’t many tasks which are simple and routine yet. I’m also waiting on training and new projects to start, so I actually have a lot of downtime right now, and the hard tasks are the only thing I have available.

        I think that will change in the future, but it’s bringing back some of my anxiety from my last job.

    2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Also a software developer, and what you’re experiencing sounds pretty normal to me. Even more so since you say you’re at a new job, which means of course you’re more likely to be asking questions than answering them!

      I seem to recall that agile guidelines assume something like 6 productive hours out of an 8 hour work day, so it sounds like you’re already tending towards a good balance. That said, if you can’t yet switch up the work you’re doing, switch up your environment. Get up and get drink of your favorite refreshing beverage. Go use the restroom. If you have a sit-stand desk, switch between sitting and standing. The number of problems I’ve solved with a change of scenery is astounding, even (or perhaps especially) to me.

      1. Anax*

        Thank you; that’s super reassuring. This is my second job after college, so I’m pretty nervous, especially after the job hunt process exposed some gaps in my knowledge – I learned in a pretty ad hoc way, so terminology and tidiness aren’t always my strong suit.

        I’ll try to remember to change things up when I’m stuck and frustrated. You’re right that they’re helpful; I’m just darn nervous about looking like I’m slacking when I take a moment to recalibrate.

        Anxiety: Gotta love it.

    3. HeyNonny*

      That seems pretty normal, actually. 6 hours is a really good long stretch of creative time. Are you taking enough breaks during the day? I found I do better if I take a real break at the 2 hour mark.

      1. Anax*

        I’m not, but it’s something I’m actively working on; I have a bad habit of eating at my desk and never taking real breaks, but I’m trying to force myself to schedule them in.

        1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

          Simple way to force yourself to take breaks – drink a glass of water every hour. Time your bathroom breaks for when you refill your water glass. Set an alarm if you need to, but listen to your body if you need to get up before your alarm goes off.

          1. Anax*

            Ergh, you’re right – and I’ve been doing the EXACT OPPOSITE by getting a quart of water at a time so I don’t have to get more so often.

            I’ll set an alarm for myself. I’ve got bad habits about breaks, and it’s really not great for me or for getting things done.

    4. nonegiven*

      What are you doing on breaks? If bathroom, drink, snack isn’t doing the job, maybe a brisk walk or something like that?

  124. Stop Touching Me!*

    A few weeks ago, I posted that a co-worker was very touchy-feely and called me things like “honey” and “[her] good girl”. I took y’all’s advice to ask her to stop and explained (calmly and kindly, I thought) that it made me feel like she wasn’t taking me seriously as a fellow adult. She apologized and stopped! … for about a week. Now, she’s started up again with calling me honey in this gross sweety tone, only in the presence of other co-workers, and frequently followed up with “oh, I’m not supposed to call her that!” with this little “teehee aren’t I bad?” kind of expression.
    I’m debating going to my boss about it. On the one hand, I don’t want her to get in serious trouble or anything, and it feels like schoolyard tattling. On the other hand, I’m starting to avoid talking to her in person when I can help it because she’s being so weird about this! I’m already one of the younger people in the office. I just want to do my job in peace.
    Thoughts?

    1. this ain't a scene*

      Ask her again and then rope your boss in, just in case this comes up, especially since other coworkers are witnessing it. Also, if any of the other coworkers are friendly with you, ask them to speak up when it happens and show support to you by saying “hey, coworker, if Stop Touching Me! asked you to stop that, it’s not cool to keep doing it.”

    3. fposte*

      I’d try talking to her once more first. Presence of other co-workers be damned–“Yes, I asked you to stop doing that, and it’s frustrating that you’re doing it anyway and laughing afterwards. I’m serious: please stop.”

      1. Annie Moose*

        In fact, saying that in front of other coworkers might be more effective, because then it’s clear that you’re being reasonable and polite, and she’s the one being weird about it. (plus, then you’re establishing a record for yourself if you need to escalate further/tell her to stop in front of other people again/get more visibly frustrated when she does it)

    4. AnonyMoosewithTea*

      I have a coworker who makes the same-passive aggressive comments. She’s banking on you not raising a fuss because you’re all in a group setting. I’d fire back with a calm, even-toned reminder. E.g., “Yes, that’s right, I’ve asked you not to do that, as being called those epithets by coworkers makes me feel uncomfortable.” You might even add a kill-em-with-kindness, “Thanks for remembering, Jane,” if it feels appropriate.

      You might feel weird about doing it in a group setting, but if your tone and manner is reasonable, you’ll get respect for sticking up for yourself.

      (My story/why I say this from experience: A 74-yo coworker once tried to fob off her PPT presentation onto me because she “didn’t know” PPT very well–I told her that I was confident in her PPT skills and if she ran into any trouble, she could always find me later. She had asked me in full view of two coworkers, who later praised me for the way I handled it.)

      1. Lilith*

        I would use the word “told.” I ” told” you to stop calling me X & you agreed. Told sounds stronger.

    5. Akcipitrokulo*

      “Correct. It is interesting that you now only do it when others are around. Do you know why that may be?”

      And tell boss.

      She’s bullying you. Deliberately and knowingly.

    6. Stop Touching Me!*

      Hey, real fast unexpected update! I was in the car earlier with this co-worker and my boss, and the co-worker mentioned calling me honey even though I didn’t like it, like she was trying to get my boss on board. Boss jumped in and said “No no, if she doesn’t want you to call her that, you have to respect that. It’s okay to mess around with each other, but if someone draws a line, you can’t cross it like that.” Co-worker tried to argue that she just couldn’t help it, but boss held firm and said she would have to learn. So! That conversation happened, and I think it went well. I will take all of y’all’s advice into account and try to remember to speak up and remind her when it comes up. Thank you all for being excellent!

        1. valentine*

          Super. And if she gets in serious trouble, she earned every bit of it and it’ll be a comfort to know your employer takes it seriously.

          Marshaling your coworkers was gross.

    7. nonegiven*

      Those other coworkers may be uncomfortable with her, also. Use that, show them they can stand up to her, too.

  125. dovidbawie*

    So my unemployment benefits ran out & I’m still searching for a print production/production art job.

    Yesterday I landed an interview with a large company; it would be great experience & look good on a resume. But it started 30 minutes late & didn’t even have a solid list of job duties, just a general job description. [Flag] The first person to interview was the direct manager, who was pretty indirect & weirdly low energy; asking the same questions several ways multiple times before finally just saying what they meant. [Flag for me, I want very direct feedback] This role is supposed to be 70% detail oriented & production oriented, but they really emphasized creative at the drop of a pin/needs little direction creative work. [Flag, these are two very different skills sets & the pay is enough for one skillset.] Then I was told two other people would be interviewing me. The second person was much more energetic 7 interesting, but didn’t ask me anything new or give me much insight, other than it’s a temporary position to fill for someone leaving but no timeline because they’re waiting on restructuring from upper management.

    The third interview was amazing. Super energetic, extremely transparent, very direct. Works every night & weekend as the only person on new brands, management is super indirect, haggling, unrealistic expectations about what it takes to do what they ask. Confirmed that the others who interviewed me don’t understand what they’re asking for in the new role. Has a somewhat similar background to me & gave me a lot of good advice on how/where to look for industry jobs, & a couple companies in the area to look into. They’re also job searching to get out of the madness, & sympathetic to other job searchers. So while it started off super shaky & I doubt I’ll get the role, I was super pumped when I left!

    In the meantime, at a grocery store opening job fair thing I was offered a cashier job on the spot. I totally blew the interviewing manager out of the park, so that felt good! Almost half the pay from my industry job, but reasons I’m fine with it are 1) I am going mad at home all day, 2) I refuse to dig into our emergency funds, 3) the hours will let me focus more time on building my business, & 4) I can always move on if I find an industry job that really clicks with me, so I can more afford to be pickier.

    1. Fortitude Jones*

      Congrats on your new job! I hope this is a sign your luck is changing and you’ll get your desired industry job soon enough.

  126. Anonymoose*

    Question: what do you say to a manager whose way of critique is “why are you making this mistake you have plenty of time in the day” and “I don’t need your promises I just need you to not do it again.” This was my first major mistake (a pretty bad typo in a letter that was cc-ed to a client) in the 3 years that I’ve worked at this company and I was mortified to discover that it wasn’t something I caught during the proofreading process. I didnt say much during that meeting with the manager except I have no excuses and acknowledged every single issue the manager had with my mistake. On the other hand, I had a very busy month and I know it’s not an excuse for sloppiness, but I did feel hurt at the fact that my manager refused to even acknowledge that (and my grandboss told me repeatedly that my work is otherwise excellent).

    I know, just from my interactions with the manager that she is not the most patient person and this often just her way of dealing with things (stern reprimand to let her anger out). But it’s taken a toll on my morale that no matter how hard I work otherwise, I’m never “too busy” in my manager’s eye.

    1. Akcipitrokulo*

      Might be a case of, for this type of thing, “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change”. Talking to her might help, but it’s not on you if it doesn’t.

      And for the record – you’re pretty brilliant at what you do to have that kind of outstanding track record. Mistakes happen. One in three years is a good record.

    2. Kathenus*

      It does suck that after years of good performance she’s responding so disproportionately to this. I’m in an industry with some safety-related risks, and we do take errors seriously. But the most important thing we do, whether it’s a one time thing or a pattern, is to ask the person to think about how they are going to reduce/avoid the chances of this happening again. So yes, we acknowledge the error (and certainly the pattern if there is one), but the most important thing is how are you going to change your process to catch this type of error the next time.

      So I think mentioning to her that you’ve had a solid record of consistently good work, and that you have thought about the mistake and are taking XX or YY specific action to address it going forward. That way you’re both pointing out your positive history, but also acknowledging the error and showing that you take it seriously and are taking actions to avoid another in the future.

    3. WellRed*

      This is not the type of mistake where I think her criticism was warranted. It’s not like you are repeatedly mishandling a process.

  127. LQ*

    Question for people in or around tech folks. We have a security guy who is…really conspiracy minded, like all the way, the wildest, least possible, most contradictory conspiracies. I’ve had a couple people who say you want someone like that in security, but for me the trouble is when he brings up completely absurd things and holds them as equivalent threats to really ordinary normal things. I feel like I have to spend a bunch of time digging into something when he brings it up to try to figure out if we really need to worry about it, which defeats the point of a security guy. Is this normal because it doesn’t seem like it. A little paranoid would be different but this is full on David Icke stuff presented as exactly the same as you should have good passwords and change them.

    (I started listening to the Smashing Security podcast to get a feel for if this was just an industry standard thing and I really like the podcast and they don’t seem like this at all! Highly recommend.)

    1. EmilyG*

      I work in IT and I do think the security specialty can attract people who think fifteen steps ahead to things that might never happen, and sometimes that’s exactly what you want them to do. Or they might make plans for things that are very unlikely, because you think of risk in terms of harm and likelihood, so even if something is very unlikely, if it would be very harmful, you still want to plan for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if a security person did things like “plan for potential vectors of hacking that haven’t happened very often globally” or “have a big security system on their house even though they live in a low-crime area.” If they have taken leave of reality, in a Pizzagate kind of way, that’s a different problem. Maybe he just isn’t great at his job or needs more management? Maybe he isn’t thinking about risk the right way for your organization, or isn’t good at explaining his assessments.

      1. LQ*

        He definitely needs more management. I’m not sure if he isn’t great at his job but it seems like it. And yes, it’s Pizzagate kind of stuff.

        I’ve known a few who do the thinking 15 steps ahead and this is definitely not that.

    2. Manders*

      That doesn’t sound normal or admirable to me. Most of the guys in security I’ve met have been really devoted skeptics, not devoted conspiracy theorists. When they do come out with something that seems kind of unlikely and implausible to me, it’s because they understand security vulnerabilities I’m not even thinking of, not because they believe reptilians are real.

      Also, a lot of the David Icke stuff gets pretty racist and anti-semitic, so keep an eye out for any signs that he’s veering from quirkiness into something more concerning.

      1. Anax*

        Ditto. “A little quirky” is pretty normal – I think things like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OobLb1McxnI (DEFCON talk about remotely hacking cars) are a good example. I’ve seen more security folks who are a little more obviously “counter-culture” than your average IT professional – more piercings, more snarky bumper stickers on their laptops.

        Actual conspiracy theories are actually pretty concerning, because it suggests that they aren’t evaluating risks in a logical and fact-based way, and that’s a big problem for the job. You can’t eliminate all risk in security – EVERYTHING is about risk/reward.

        1. LQ*

          Yeah, it’s the lack of logical evaluation that concerns me. I can’t trust his judgement on a threat level if to him getting hit by hackers from florida (which happens really often) and getting deplatformed (which…) are the same. Now I have to evaluate the latest thing he’s talking about because I don’t trust his judgement, which isn’t great (it’s not great that now I’m making this decision without advise from someone I trust).

          If he just had more piercings and snarky bumper stickers…I’d just be thrilled quite frankly. That sounds lovely. I want a piercing laden snarky security person.

          1. Manders*

            Oof, yeah, I see why you’re concerned. Not understanding the difference between those two things (or not understanding the likelihood?) is a HUGE red flag about his professional judgment.

          2. Anax*

            I had a makerspace back in the Midwest which was full of them, and it was wonderful. They all had crazy ideas, lockpicking sessions, and fire tornadoes – and the sense to set up rules and precautions so they didn’t ACTUALLY light the place on fire.

            This guy really does not sound good at his job. If I were his manager, I’d be seriously considering whether he’s a good fit for the position, because adequately understanding and expressing risk/reward is one of the most key skills for a security guy.

      2. LQ*

        Skeptic not conspiracy is just the framing I needed. (Which is weird because I read and listen to a lot of skeptical stuff!)

        And yes it is, and yes he is, and yes that’s what concerns me a lot. He’s very cautious about what he says and it’s a lot of dog whistles but nothing really direct. His biggest concern is that we will be deplatformed because Gab was…No. Just no.

    3. Argh!*

      I’m not in IT, but one of our IT people is very patronizing and locks down aspects of our software because someone who has access to “X” would also have access to “Y” and that could spell trouble. It’s infuriating, because the people who get locked out of “X” and “Y” had that access in our previous environment and never hurt anybody. Also, the people he has locked out of these things have access to all kinds of other things that could mess with people’s lives, not to mention the potential for employee theft. We hire effing ADULTS not teenage criminals!

      I have gotten him to loosen up a little thanks to my previous work experiences, and my depth of knowledge, but really…

      One way to deal with this type is to ask “which is the likeliest scenario” or “which is the costliest” or “how many people know how to do [scary thing]” to help keep priorities in order.

      Good luck with this. I want to hear if you make progress & how you did it.

      1. LQ*

        I’d be totally fine with fighting him on access things and employee theft. Oddly he’s pretty passive on those things, though I suspect just because he doesn’t want to fight my boss on it and we have some pretty good process controls in place that manage access and take any violations very seriously. All of the scenarios he comes up with around that we already have processes and regular reviews of data, access, etc in place to manage.

        Also apparently he’s moving into another job (which is a worse place for him to be) but I think that means we get a new security guy and I’m hopeful it’ll be a competent, tattooed, pierced, snarky one based on Anax’s comments. I just found out as I was typing this comment.

      2. Anax*

        Eh, I’m kind of okay with that. It’s the security folks’ job to be the ‘bad guys’ in that regard, though it’s always better to start from a place of good security than to take privileges away after the fact. That sounds more like a style/culture clash than incompetence; some companies are more chill than others about security.

        Not that it’s not annoying; just… yeah, I come from the school of ‘don’t give people the tools to do harm if they don’t need them, even if they’re 99.9% likely to be trustworthy’, and that sounds where your coworker is coming from.

  128. Jenna*

    A small rant to get it off my chest. It is just my coworker (we’ll call him Bob) and myself in my workgroup and we share an office. I typically work 8-4:30 and Bob works 9-5:30 (he’s generally an hour late every day, which also drives me nuts). There is a meeting today that Bob was supposed to cover. When I got to work this morning, I saw that Bob’s laptop was not at his desk (we only bring our laptops home at weekends). He texted me this morning saying that he has a headache and is taking a sick day, leaving me to have to frantically prepare for this meeting. He obviously planned to call in sick today since he took his computer home yesterday… would’ve been nice if he’d given me a heads up. Ugh!!!!! I hate working with a slacker. /end rant

    1. irene adler*

      Given Bob cannot attend the meeting, too bad you can’t arrange a re-schedule with the other attendees, so that he can attend.
      Only, don’t tell Bob -until the day of the rescheduled meeting- that it has been rescheduled.

      1. valentine*

        What if you didn’t go? If he’s working at home, why can’t he phone in to the meeting? I don’t suppose you can not take his calls.

  129. Muggle-Worthy Excuse Committee*

    God willing, I may soon have the opportunity to interview for a new position. I’m sure I’ll be asked why I’m leaving my current position, which seems tailor-made for my resume. If I tell you why I’m actually leaving, can you help me translate it into an acceptable sound bite?

    We have a new director at my current job under whose leadership many people are looking to leave. It’s like a totalitarian state, where only enthusiasm is the right reaction, and some people have disappeared, been secretly fired or something. I have staff coming into my office and crying, and I’ve experienced every physical symptom of stress in the book. My job has gone from 40% politics and 60% substance to 90% dealing with our dysfunctional org + difficult personalities and 10% substance. One issue is that people ask for my advice or involvement, don’t listen to what I have to say, and then I sometimes have to fix the resulting problems. It feels like I’ve reached the end of the line in improving things here that people actually want improved, and everything left is a “feature” of the culture. I’m afraid that if I stick around, not only will my skills be too stale to move on but I’ll start picking up dysfunctional habits and coping mechanisms. I truly love working with many of my colleagues but the stress level has just become too toxic. There aren’t many jobs in my speciality if I want to stay where I live now (which is very important to me). So the path forward I’m beginning to see for myself is to move into a more general version of what I do. I might have done this as a way to grow in my career *eventually* anyway. Imagine that I’m a teapot painter for a museum and I want to become a general decorative painter for any kind of nonprofit.

    How do I spin this into a one or two sentences that is firm about wanting to leave and being open to other types of jobs, and doesn’t sounds like too much complaining?

    1. LCL*

      I want to increase my skill/knowledge of this field so I can grow professionally. Current job does one kind of work, I want to be able to do other kinds of work as well as this kind of work.

    2. Overeducated*

      Maybe “I’ve been thinking that the best path forward for advancing in my career is moving from niche museum painting to broader nonprofit painting, and I think I’ve accomplished a lot at my current company and am ready to move into a role with new challenges”?

      I’m sorry, this sounds SO frustrating, I hope you find something new fast.

    3. Argh!*

      You’re not leaving your current situation, you’re applying for your next situation. They don’t really want to hear about baggage. They want you to flatter them.

      1. Argh!*

        … well, maybe not “flatter them” (though it wouldn’t hurt), but they want you to tell them why you want to work at their place, not why you want to leave the old place. They are looking at the possibility of their future with you instead of someone else. See it from their point of view, not yours.

    4. Kathenus*

      I know some will disagree with this approach, but I think you can both acknowledge the current situation and focus primarily on the new org.

      Something like ‘with a recent change in executive leadership/upper management the position has changed recently. I’m really excited about joining your organization due to your focus on excellence in llama welfare and from everything I’ve read and learned about the company I believe that my background in progressive animal care will be a great match for this position and your mission.’

      1. Anax*

        As further verbiage to this end, perhaps –

        “I’ve heard that Teapot Dome really values its employees. Your focus on an inclusive, diverse corporate culture and the training opportunities for employees particularly impressed me. It’s important to me to be valued as an individual, and to work for a company whose mission I believe in; that’s part of what drew me to your company.”

    5. Akcipitrokulo*

      “While I’ve really enjoyed (something that you succeeded at) at oldJob, I am looking to develop my career and am excited by (something at their job)”

  130. CupcakeCounter*

    What to tell the boss (a really good one)?

    I decided to start looking at other opportunities and had a phone interview on Wednesday for a great company. The position isn’t completely ideal but the salary would be a lot higher and since it is a larger company internal opportunities would be available in a couple of years. The down side is I currently have about a 10 minute commute and this would be closer to 25-30 in good weather (I live in West Michigan so lots of snow in the winter). My friend works for the company and she says they are extremely generous with the WFH policy during the winter.
    The reasons I started looking are no WFH, very little schedule flexibility, opportunities for advancement here are rare although in my 6.5 years they have been great about in-line promotions/title changes and raises, and a severe workload imbalance that I have brought up on several occasions but hasn’t changed. There are also some newer conflicts with a particular coworker (Little Miss Perfect) and my GrandBoss.
    However my immediate supervisor is fantastic and mentioned something that would be an incredible opportunity if it worked out. She wants to change my title (and djust pay accordingly) and certain duties to free me up for some higher level work. This was brought up as a longer term plan and to my knowledge has not been discussed with the higher ups. If she could get it worked out I would take this over the other place but I’m not sure how long I am willing to wait. New Place would be about $10k more immediately plus higher 401(k) match and profit sharing and bonus opportunities. Boss has managed to get a lot accomplished in the year she has been here so its definitely a possibility.

    So…do I mention to her that I am looking but that opportunity she mentioned will get me to stay? I have no fears of getting pushed out as I am extremely needed and we’ve barely scratched the surface of the process documentation and cross-training initiative (one of the projects I would take over) so they would be SOL if I left for several months. I am willing to leave some money on the table to stay local and do this work that really appeals to me. Plus current job is casual dress code and new place is business dress (not suits though) and I got rid of all my stuff a couple years ago so big shopping spree needed.

    1. StrikingFalcon*

      At a minimum I would ask her what the timeline is for this kind of promotion, but if you’re not worried about being pushed out I’m not sure what you have to lose.

  131. I'm (kind of) with Her*

    Anyone ever lost out on a promotion to a really nice guy with less qualifications than you? How do you emotionally deal?

      1. I'm (kind of) with Her*

        Yeah, I kind of don’t want to go there. It’s a no-win situation all around, and I really don’t relish the thought of spending the next few years fighting before a government agency or in a courtroom. Thank you for your show of support, though! I’m just looking for some moral support since there’s no one I really want to about it here.

        1. Argh!*

          What if you filed a complaint to your Compliance office? Tell them you are willing to let it go if you get fast-tracked to the next opportunity or get a raise that’s the equivalent to what Mr. Nice Guy got. Compliance Office people are tasked with avoiding lawsuits, so even if you don’t really want to go there, threatening to go there could get you somewhere.

    2. Wishing You Well*

      Another tactic is to ask your boss how to be a better candidate for the next promotion. Ask what qualifications are needed. This pointed conversation does several things, including: notifies your boss you’re watching who gets promoted and makes your boss verbalize their thinking on promotions. Watch your tone of voice, of course. Act as if you’re merely wanting input, but listen and remember what the response is. Act accordingly.
      I hope the next advancement is yours.

    3. Discriminated Against Too*

      Yes. I was serving as an interim director, applied for the permanent job, and a man with half my experience got the job instead of me. He was doing about 25% of his work, and it fell to me to pick up the slack…or, effectively do his job for him while getting paid less. I later found out that another woman with similar qualifications to me had applied, but been passed over, so it was obvious it was gender based and not “I don’t like you” based.

      I looked into filing a complaint with the state EEO board, but I would have had to file the complaint while still working there and I didn’t want to deal with the retaliation. We were planning on moving, so I just made the job work for me. I did the parts of the job I wanted to (usually, something I liked, something that helped a friend, or something that made my job easier/came with extra pay) and let him deal with the rest. I had all the power with none of the responsibility or accountability, and that was a nice way to waste a few months while we were working on getting the move squared away.

      I’m sorry that happened to you, and just remember it has *nothing* to do with you and *everything* to do with them.

  132. Little Pig*

    My coworker has a border-line inappropriate photo of his wife as his laptop background/screensaver. It’s not explicit, but she’s smiling/laughing with her eyes closed in a way that kindaaaaa looks like an O-face. She’s wearing a scrappy tank or bra so it’s all bare shoulders, and the photo is black-and-white and soft, maybe professional lighting. It’s a beautiful, loving photo, but it’s very intimate!!! This photo goes onto the projector screen every time he presents, until he gets his presentation open.

    Can I ask my advisor to talk to him about this? Is it worth the effort? I’m only exposed to it at most once a month, it’s his wife (not a random model), and the coworker is sort of a difficult personality, and from a different culture. I’m not really interested in having a showdown myself, but I grate my teeth every time I see it. What do you think?

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Honestly, that wouldn’t bother me at all. You say it’s more artistic than explicit, and it sounds like a lovely photo of his wife. I probably wouldn’t even consider her expression sexual if she’s laughing. And she’s not naked? And you don’t look straight at it every day? Let it go. If he were putting the background photo up before every presentation and talking about how hot is wife is, that would be a different issue.

    3. fposte*

      I don’t see this as a co-worker thing. It’s not hurting your work; you just don’t like it. I’d let it go.

        1. valentine*

          The example photo’s funny, so I’m not sure about your interpretation or why you think his wife is better than a model, but go ahead and say something.

  133. Queen of Cans and Jars*

    I had someone apply for a production worker position this week who had the descriptor, “hard working woman” under her name on her application. I was very sad that she later emailed me to say she’d found another job. We could really use a hard working woman around here!

    1. Argh!*

      Some community colleges are teaching students to use that kind of description on their resumes.

      1. Queen of Cans and Jars*

        I’ve gotten so annoyed with the dumb stuff that job applicants do, that I recently did some speaking engagements at local high schools to talk to them about what to do – and not to do – when applying for jobs. I had one of the teachers try to debate with me why people should call to follow up on their job applications. *facepalm*

  134. Womp*

    What do you do when you clearly dropped the ball on something? Note huge, but missed a clearly-stated deadline and have since taken necessary actions to correct the mistake. I’m sitting here wallowing in guilt and shame, and worried about how it’ll affect my coworkers’ perception of me.

    Any else here can commiserate?

      1. Womp*

        Maybe, but not that I’ve seen. They’re in a different department at another location so I don’t see them/their work that often.

          1. valentine*

            They’ve definitely made mistakes, some of which cost money, and someone has to be the person to do that. There will be someone who’s made the biggest mistake, but they’re unlikely to be defined by it. You’ve done all you can. You sound conscientious. The guilt serves who, your caregivers who installed the button? You can let it be and move on.

    2. Kathenus*

      Admit it, apologize, and for yourself (and your boss) identify ways to mitigate something like this happening again. Everyone makes mistakes. I’ve found that people who admit them and use them to improve tend to get respect for that.

  135. Scampi*

    I was hoping I could get some advice on how to execute my “hill to die on” moment. My family is planning a big party for my grandmother’s 95th birthday next week. She lives a couple states away (about a 4-hour drive) and I had arranged to take off Thursday and Friday next week (party is on Friday). This event has been in the works for a while and I got my vacation request approved in January. My boss just told me he’s decided I can’t be off next week, because I had a sick day back in January due to a stomach bug (that doesn’t even make any sense as I am not behind on my work and have not taken off any other days so far this year). I told him that I would be happy to make up the time by working a couple weekend days or otherwise working longer hours for a couple weeks after I returned, but I really wasn’t able to cancel my trip. My grandma’s health has been starting to decline and this could very well be her last birthday, and I want to spend time with her while she is still well enough to enjoy it. He told me I would be fired if I didn’t show up to work. So, what do I do now? Quit in advance? Call his bluff and make him fire me? (I do believe he will fire me if it comes to that – a few years ago we had an employee who asked for a few weeks off, without pay no less, to attend to matters after both of her parents passed away within a couple months of each other, and he fired her just for asking – no, we don’t have HR to keep him in check.) Financially, I will be fine for at least a few months, but I’m worried about having on my record either a resignation without adequate notice or a firing due to being AWOL.

      1. Scampi*

        I could, but Friday is her actual birthday and attending the celebration is very meaningful to me. We have relatives traveling in from all over the country so it will be a mini family reunion, including some people I have not seen in quite a few years. I would be willing to consider that if there were an actual work emergency, or if others were going to be significantly inconvenienced by my absence, but that isn’t the case (in fact, there are no deadlines next week and no specific work-related meetings/events I would be missing; next week is a very light one for our team/department).

    2. I'm (kind of) with Her*

      That’s a tough situation. I’m sorry your boss is so unreasonable. If you’re going to go to the party and you firmly believe your boss will fire you (and you don’t need to collect unemployment), then I would recommend that you resign nicely and ASAP (so giving as much notice as you can). Kill your boss with kindness. Explain how much you regret having to resign, but that you had booked the trip after getting approval and you cannot cancel your travel plans. On the other hand, if you do need unemployment insurance (not sure where you live), then that’s something to consider. Ultimately, it’s always better to be able to say on an employment application that you were not terminated. Just hope your boss doesn’t put it down as a firing or give you a terrible reference!

    3. this ain't a scene*

      Your boss is being extremely unreasonable. Since it sounds like you have the cushion, I would personally take the risk of calling his bluff.

    5. CatCat*

      If you think the outcome is certain, I’d resign. You could always put in your two weeks notice (heck, you could even make it a little more to account for the days you are taking off) and if he decides to cut that shorter, that’s fine, but I’d still call it a resignation and you gave the professionally standard notice.

      It’s typically easier to get unemployment benefits if you’re fired, but IDK if that would be the case in this circumstance (not showing up to work when scheduled to do so) and in that event, I’d rather have resigned (I’d still file and claim I quit with good cause, but that might not fly… nothing to lose by filing though.)

      1. Argh!*

        I thought you could only get benefits if you’re let go without cause. The employer could make a case of AWOL, which would be cause.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          It depends on the state. If you’re in a employee friendly state, they would most likely award benefits.

          I assume you’re not in a state with paid sick-leave because that would really stick it right in his eye for using that against you. Argh…one day we all will have these laws [I have to tell myself that or I’ll spin right into the ground with my rage].

        2. CatCat*

          It’s highly dependent on the state’s requirements. In my state, if you are fired, you could get benefits unless you were fired for “misconduct,” and you could get benefits if you quit for “good cause.” These particular terms have specific meanings.

          Instead of trying to figure out on one’s own if one qualifies, there’s nothing to lose by applying for benefits so I would still go for it.

    6. ChimericalOne*

      Put in your notice. Go to the party. Find a job where your boss isn’t terrible.

      It’s better to be able to say you quit than that you were fired. One week’s notice is not awful, and you probably wouldn’t be able to use him as a reference, anyway. You can explain to future would-be employers that you left after your vacation time was unexpectedly rescinded with less than a week’s notice, without a work-related reason (it’s not that your job needed coverage or that you were near a deadline), and you felt that it was important to work somewhere where your time was respected. If you simply no-show and get fired, you probably won’t be able to collect unemployment (they can fight it if they fired you for cause, and no-show is a legitimate cause, I’m pretty sure). It’s much better to take control of your narrative and give notice.

    7. Scampi*

      Decided to speak with my boss again before making a final decision about what to do. I expressed that I understood he was unhappy with my being out next week, and said I was hoping he might be able to share more about his concerns with me, so I could address them in advance. He said it was really just the optics – that it looked bad that I “willy-nilly” called in sick a couple months ago (it was not willy-nilly, I could not keep any food/fluids down for 24 hours and could not stand up without holding on to something) and that now just a “short time” later (again, it’s been two months) I was about to “waltz” out to go “gallivanting about.” I asked whether there were specific tasks/projects I could get ahead on by putting in some time this weekend and working extra hours Monday-Wednesday, and he reiterated that the sole issue was the optics of my being out and that the work itself was great and being done ahead of schedule. He said he needed someone in this role who is willing to put work first, for any reason he requires, and that I was showing a lack of dedication. At that point, I went to my prepared script and said, “I’m so sorry, but I really cannot miss this once-in-a-lifetime event for my grandmother, and it is not something I can reschedule. I take my commitments very seriously both at and outside of work, and this is one I made months ago when my leave was approved. Thus, shall we agree that my last day should be April 9, so that I am giving 10 business days’ notice adding in the two days I need to be out? I understand you are disappointed that I am not able to put work first in this situation, disappointed enough for it to be a deal-breaker. I am very sorry for that, and hope you can find someone for this role whose priorities are a better match. I will make sure my projects are in good order and clearly documented before my last day.” At that point, he started yelling that I was useless, worthless, lazy, disloyal, was never going to amount to anything if I put my personal life first, etc. (Ouch!) Anyway – the bottom line is he told me to leave at the end of the day, but at least I was able to resign instead of being fired. And now I have a few days to polish up my resume and start my job search before my trip.

        1. valentine*

          What a weirdo. I’m guessing he’s the company owner and approves leave for the optics, yet secretly hopes employees will cancel so they can work work work for him him him. Ugh. And he fired you as you were resigning, so it’s a resignation, not a firing.

          So. You are free. I believe choosing Grandma will lead you to good things, like maybe finding a job on your trip. Would you want to live closer to her? What possibilities does your exit from the toxic swamp create for you?

      2. Elizabeth West*

        What a butthead. I’m glad you are able to see your grandmother, and to hell with him. You handled it very well.

      3. Friday*

        Jesus. Good on you for getting out of there. Have a great time with your grandma. I lost mine earlier this year.

        You should glassdoor that nonsense too – your boss was completely out of line today and future hires deserve to know.

      4. Jersey's mom*

        So first he talk’s about how you do a great job, and “just the optics are bad”. The when you resign he goes ballistic and calls you terrible names.

        What an ass.

        You have a $ buffer and time to find a new job with a sane boss. And you’ll be with your Grandma, which is something you’ll treasure the rest of your life.

        You made the right choice. Try not to stress ov r it this weekend, instead look at it as a slow motion bullet dodged. He would have pulled this crap sooner or later.

      5. Not A Manager*

        I truly believe that in 20 years – heck, even in 20 days – you will not regret the loss of this job. You would always have regretted missing this time with your grandmother and your family.

        Good call. You quit with notice, and I don’t think you’ll have trouble explaining this to any reasonable employer. Do you have any colleagues, or any higher-ups other than your boss, who could give you a reference? Everyone must know that he’s completely banana-crackers.

      6. Lilysparrow*

        I am so, so, glad that you chose your grandmother over this dirtbag, instead of the other way around.

      8. AnonJ*

        The only bad optics here are that you have (had) a boss that thinks that one sick day and two previously approved vacation days in a quarter are “bad optics”. I am glad that you stood up for yourself here. This is not normal and I think you should still apply for unemployment on the grounds of constructive discharge even though you ultimately resigned. It can’t hurt you to do so and will put your boss in a really awkward position explaining why you were threatened with firing over the optics of using your allowed sick and vacation days rather than because of actual business needs. Please take a moment to document this whole series of events while it’s fresh in your mind in case you need it later.

    8. CupcakeCounter*

      Wow…what a douche.
      Not sure how a sick day in January means you can’t take PTO in march but I’m also not a megalomaniac.
      Do you have your vacation time approval in writing? What about the conversation rescinding it?
      If you have enough docs to back you up in with the unemployment office I would call his bluff – I lost my Grandfather a little over a year ago and I definitely regret not seeing him one last time.

    9. Bex*

      Definitely don’t quit in advance; there’s really nothing to be gained by that. Document that your days off were already approved. If he does fire you for taking pre-approved PTO, there is a good chance that you can collect unemployment.

      Don’t worry about things being “on your record.” There really isn’t a universal permanent record that follows you around your entire life. If it ever comes up in an interview, you can concisely explain the situation and any good/reasonable potential employer won’t hold it against you.

    10. Kathenus*

      Wow, totally agree that your boss is horrible. I know you say no HR, but is there a grandboss? If so, might be worth contacting them about the situation (with the vacation approval, that it’s being rescinded because of an illness two months ago, reason you need off which is a significant family event and what it is) and let them know that you’d like to stay but that you’ll turn in your notice if needed. See what they say.

      If that’s not an option then I think it’s kind of a 50-50 decision of quitting or not. But overall since you have some financial cushion I’d lean towards resigning. And personally I’d have no problem telling a potential employer why – it can be done professionally – ‘I resigned with short notice after approved time off was rescinded last minute for my grandmother’s 95th birthday celebration. It was a significant family event that I didn’t want to miss given my grandmother’s age and health.’ Don’t trash the boss or organization, just say the circumstances around it, which I don’t think most potential employers would see as inappropriate or unprofessional.

    11. BRR*

      Wow. Just wow. There’s no logic I can find in your awful boss’ awful reasoning. For your decision, take out being worried about explaining it and then make your choice. Come back here and we can help you explain it in future interviews. For practical purposes, I’d look into unemployment ahead of time and if I qualified I’d let him fire me. I’m not sure how any future employer would know that you resigned without adequate notice. You say you have no HR, but does he report to someone that you can talk to? I feel like you have nothing to lose here since your boss is garbage so go over his head. Heck, if your coworkers don’t know he’s garbage, tell them he’s garbage.

    12. PJM*

      You’re nuts if you don’t quit working for this terrible person. If you don’t go to this birthday party and your grandmother dies soon, you will always feel ashamed and guilty that you put work first. Your boss is a controlling sociopath.

    13. Nacho*

      If you truly plan to attend the party no matter what, then absolutely do NOT quit. There is no advantage at all to quitting before he fires you, while if he fires you instead of quitting you have avenues like unemployment to pursue.

      People aren’t idiots. When they hear you quit your job with nothing lined up, they’re going to ask for context and call your boss, and then you’ll be in the same position as if you’d been fired, just with no unemployment benefits.

  136. Public Facing Librarian*

    Well, the crap,crap,crap continues. I feel very supported by my superiors. The public relations crises continues. I have scheduled a meeting with our EAP to deal with the stress.
    This too shall pass. I empathize and do my job one day at a time.

    Send me distracting fun Netflix or HuLu to stream this weekend

    1. Anax*

      What’s your preferred brand of trash – would you prefer fiction/nonfiction, and do you prefer overt cheer or dark humor?

    2. CatCat*

      You need a “Nailed It!” and “Great British Baking Show” binge on Netflix. Those are my “go to” choices when I need a pick me up.

      So sorry you’re having a tough time at work!

    3. Youth*

      If you like cartoons, Star vs. the Forces of Evil is a lot of fun. It’s currently on Hulu. You can also try Over the Garden Wall for 100 minutes of mind-boggling amusement.

      1. Anax*

        I’m guessing you’ve seen the obvious things, but I’ll list a few just in case – The Librarians, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1 + Atlantis, Eureka, Warehouse 13, Farscape, The 100, Babylon 5, Orphan Black.

        Steins;Gate is an anime on Hulu about nerdy college kids trying to fix a timeline; humor/drama mix.

        I’ve also enjoyed Recovery of an MMO Junkie, which isn’t scifi, but which is about self-care and finding satisfaction even if it’s not a stereotyped businessperson’s “path to success”. And it’s cute.

        American Gods is specific to Starz, but season 1 is on Amazon now for $10, and it’s a really visually striking series.

        If you’re down for going a little farther afield, on Youtube, manyatruenerd has some lovely Fallout letsplays, and Kikoskia has an ongoing-but-intermittent Call of Cthulhu game with his friends.

        I’m sure other folks have good recommendations as well.

      2. nonegiven*

        Hulu: Timeless

        Netflix: Travelers

        Amazon: Babylon 5

        Crackle: Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles

  137. Argh!*

    It’s evaluation season here, and today is the date by which I should have had my evaluation meeting with my supervisor. I haven’t had it yet, and I’m supposed to have a full work day between receiving it and discussing it.

    I look forward to getting dinged on missing a few deadlines over the past year. I know that I should bite my tongue, but just in case I feel the urge to say something, does anyone have a suggestion?

    My ideas so far are “That’s rich.” “Do as I say, not as I do, eh?” and *snort*

    1. Annie Moose*

      I don’t know how helpful a snarky response would be, to be honest. What outcome do you want here?

    2. Middle Manager*

      I would focus on how you can improve, not on anyone else’s performance. If your boss is missing deadlines, that is her bosses responsibility to address. I would just own it. “I know I’ve missed some deadlines this year. I’d like to focus on improving that in the coming year. Here is my plan to address it. Do you have any other suggestions on how we could address this?”

      1. Argh!*

        I actually have started using various methods to address those things. Last year she dinged me on being late with my weekly reports, but in previous years she said it didn’t matter if my reports were a day or two late. So, obviously, my feelings toward her are not the most positive.

        She doesn’t follow the rule of “No surprises during the evaluation conversation.” I plan to memorize and practice some pat phrases for the unexpected & expected alike. I’m also practicing nodding my head and going “hmmm-hmmm”

    3. The New Wanderer*

      I think it helps that you know the review might have some negatives, and even more helpful that you know what they are probably going to be. For me, the worst review I had was when my manager and I went through all of my talking points, I got met-to-exceeds on everything, and in the last thirty seconds of the half hour meeting he dropped the bomb that I was given the lowest rating of the whole team.

      But even then, I was able to keep a poker face because I knew I didn’t deserve it. I should have said I didn’t agree with that result but didn’t bother at the time because I probably couldn’t refrain from sarcastic or upset behavior if the conversation continued.

      I think in a no win situation like that, it’s best to say as little as possible and have as neutral an expression as possible. I’m not even sure I would commit to a nod in response to something, if that indicates agreement in any way with something you don’t agree with. Your “hmm” is probably sufficient to convey that you are listening in those cases. When the supervisor changes the rules and doesn’t tell you, or suddenly enforces rules that didn’t matter before, all you can do is (pretend to) roll with the punches and detach as much as you can.

  138. a good mouse*

    I have just been kicked off of a project where I was the lead for over a year with zero notice. I was never given warning this was a possibility, I am told my work is excellent, but some people find me difficult to work with. I had no notice of this feedback, and definitely no sense it would rise to the point of removing me from the project. The project leadership never came to me, my boss never came to me, I was just sat down with my boss and my generally horrible senior coworker and told she is taking over.

    There’s an added bonus of discrimination based on a recent disability that kept me from relocating for a couple weeks, though I was supporting remotely.

    I wrote a contemporaneous email putting down the lack of forewarning, the disability, and asking for acknowledgement of the status I left the project in (on track with all Milestones). I also asked that we agree what will be told to everyone else on the team and project about my removal.

    Any other suggestions of what to do to protect myself? The person taking over for me really doesn’t know enough about the project, so it’s going to be a mess, and I worry I will be the scapegoat even on issues I would have handled correctly given my familiarity with the project. Otherwise if it’s a success based on my foundation of work, she’ll be crowing how she stepped in to save the project in the last six weeks, nevermind my year and a half that got us to this point.

    And what should I ask that our agreed statement to the team be? I feel like there should be one or else it just looks like I ghosted the project.

    Ugh. Of course my boss tells me this 5pm Thursday night then goes off on a long weekend through next Tuesday, so I can’t even follow up. I work with shitty people.

    1. Argh!*

      Do you have a Compliance Officer? You could send an email documenting that you suspect discrimination based on the disability, with a few details, and ask what to do about it. Even if you don’t follow through, you’ll have documented it with someone outside of your chain of command & outside of your team in case you need to CYA in the future.

    2. BRR*

      Can you document where the project stands via email and cover that up by saying it’s about the transition? This way you have something that says where the project is at this point in time?

  139. Shades of Blue*

    Due to family reasons, I will be working remotely for the next several weeks a few times this year with boss and grandboss’s blessing. Remote as in, I live in LA and would be working remotely in NYC for 4 weeks at a time instead. This is not common for our office/industry. My colleagues (3 people: A, B, C) and I all work in different offices so know one will even know I’m gone. Boss and Grandboss have stated that they will not announce our arrangement, but will also not deny it if anyone asks. Why are we keeping this on the DL? In a nutshell, A sucks and is a terrible worker. We all already get two remote days a month and A never gets any work done those days. If A hears that management has let me do this, she will want it too for “fairness”.

    A has a tendency to call me…a lot. Part of it a control thing like she is doing it just to “check up” on me. She likes to call my desk phone but I will only be available by work cell while I am remote. I know she will ask me why I’m not answering my desk phone (she has done this in the past…I didn’t answer my desk phone because I was on a call…). If she brings it up, should I just always say I was on a call?

    Besides that, I am so excited to be able to work remotely and hope to explore the east coast on the weekends.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Deflect.
      “Why didn’t you answer your desk phone?”
      “Oh, sorry about that, what do you need?”

      Alternately, can you forward your desk phone to your work cell phone and not have to worry about it?

      1. Shades of Blue*

        I just put in the request! :) Unless she calls my line directly, it should forward to my work cell. We use VoIP, so she usually calls me indirectly so this should definitely work.

        I’m just afraid it will take 4 weeks to get done, LOL.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          If the powers that be don’t get your forwarding done fast enough, is there a software option you can use? I don’t even have a desk phone, my VOIP phone is logged in through Jabber on my work computer, so when I get calls they come in through the computer and I answer via a USB headset.

        2. Drax*

          I’d run that by the manager if they want to keep it on the DL they’ll probably help you expedite it

    2. Argh!*

      The DL is due to privacy protection, and as a side benefit reduces drama. There is nothing to prevent you from emailing them about your change of location.

    3. BRR*

      I hate my reply but if the forwarding isn’t done by the time you leave can you ask your boss how they would like you to handle it?

    4. Darren*

      Unplug your desk phone and put in a drawer and send an email that anyone wanting to reach you should contact you on your work mobile and your desk phone is currently inoperative, you can even mention the number redirection (which means if they forget they should still get to you) but that just in case that doesn’t work for any reason the work mobile will definitely work.

  140. Namast'ay in Bed*

    Has anyone ever had their manager/coworker do something that completely changed your opinion of them?

    ~5 years ago I was laid off from a job in a three person department of a small company. It sucked, but I was overworked and underpaid so it was kind of a blessing in disguise. Well, it turns out that the owner realized how much work I did and reached out a few days later with a proposition to have me complete my outstanding projects. While I was happy enough to just walk away from that job, it was actually a good deal – I’d get an extra month of pay, I’d work 100% remotely, and I could do the projects on my own time as I saw fit. As long as they were completed by the end of the month, I was free to job search and interview and live as I saw fit. And that wasn’t an interpretation, they literally told me to use this time to interview and find a new job (they weren’t completely terrible, I suppose). And all of this was drawn up in a contract that I, my manager, the owner, and HR signed. All gravy, right?

    Well the following week I log on to an email from my manager asking me to call her. I do, and she starts asking where the hell I was, that I missed the morning check in, and lecturing me that she still expects me to hold the same 8-6 hours as before. I’m extremely surprised, as the contract clearly stipulated that I wasn’t beholden to any specific hours. I reminded her of this (politely of course) and she got angry, but eventually conceded that I was right (in a “I’m doing you a favor” way). This was completely out of character for her, as she had always been level-headed and kind, but I shook it off as a transition miscommunication.

    Things deteriorated from there. She went from the supportive boss I thought of as a mentor, to an angry, micro-managing, demanding jerk. Projects were reconfigured to require significantly more work. Deadlines were moved up at the last minute. Work I had previously completed was “no longer good enough” and had to be redone. She kept insisting I work on projects outside of our contract “or else” to the point that I had to reach out to HR to get her to stop.

    She finally stopped contacting me at all hours and I was able to complete the contract in relative peace. I still have no idea what happened, but in this one month my manager went from someone I looked up to, someone who cried when I got laid off, to a person I never wanted to be in contact with ever again. My one blessing is that the job I got shortly after was from an internal referral which meant they didn’t require external references – I don’t think I could trust her to provide a good reference. I worked for her for three years, but that one month destroyed my opinion of her.

    TLDR: I got laid off, the company contracted me for an extra month to wrap up my projects, and my formerly normal boss went banana crackers in that time.

    So yea, anyone have a story of a boss who went off the rails for seemingly no reason? Or a coworker who did something that completely changed your opinion of them?

    1. WellRed*

      Her behavior was extreme, but I disagree there was “no reason.” At the very least, your manager lost an employee didn’t want to lose, which presumably made her job harder( You say you were overworked) plus who knows what other kind of information about the company and its health she knew that you weren’t privy to? That sounds completely stressful.

      2. Namast'ay in Bed*

        Thanks! And I can understand why she maybe wasn’t her best self, but it seemed unnecessary for her to take it out on me, when I was giving her help that she wouldn’t have had otherwise.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Good story: I had a manager once go from dreaded micromanager to one of the most supportive managers I’ve ever had. However there was a two year gap from the micromanaging stage, where I reported to someone else, and then reported back to this manager who seemed to have changed significantly. But it did completely change my opinion!

      Bad story: I was forced to work with a sleazy guy for a short period of time because I was borrowing the facilities that he managed. I figured out the sleazy part right away and was able to keep him at bay pretty effectively. But, I realized I made a pretty significant error in my work (that only affected me) and this guy flipped out! He was incensed that I made this mistake that again only affected ME since he was in no way a part of my work, only in charge of the facilities I was using. So at that point he went from tolerable sleaze-ball to someone I could barely bring myself to speak to in the remaining days.

    3. nonegiven*

      I would have probably emailed the owner, saying “oh, hell no. Rein in the manager and maybe, but this? Oh hell no.”

  141. Sy*

    Please help me with this situation!

    I work for a boss (I’ll call them Alex) who manages multiple managers. Alex has been with the company for years and has moved up through the ranks so they are managing people they have been friends with and worked with. Now that they are a managing these folks, they haven’t changed anything about their relationships. They all eat lunch together, go out for dinner frequently and are extremely cliquey. I am not part of their clique and there is a lot of office weirdness.

    Last year the whole group went on vacation together, and when they came back it happened to be at a regular promotion cycle and only Alex’s friends were promoted. It could be a coincidence but at the very least it looks pretty dang bad.

    They’re all going on vacation again this week. Is there anything I can say or do about it? First of all, it’s a huge chunk of folks out at the same time and it’s going to make for a super rough time. Overall though, I think it’s messed up my manager is so buddy buddy with all other managers except for me, and Alex literally always sides with them and their teams over mine, in ridiculous ways.

    I’m looking for another place to work because the culture here is so toxic and wierd, but any advice in the meantime?

    1. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Ohhh that’s bad. Maybe there’s a way to approach HR? I think if you can present it in a “I’m concerned how this may make us look” kind of way, it’s better than coming across accusational. (Alison definitely has language on that.) But this honestly sounds pretty deeply ingrained so I’d probably focus more energy on getting yourself out. Sometimes knowing that you’re working to make a change and that your current situation isn’t permanent (so none of this nonsense matters in the long run for you) can make a big difference.

      I’m sorry you’re stuck in this, best of luck to find something soon!

      1. Argh!*

        I had the brilliant thought this morning to think of my job as a temp assignment. I’ve actually worked as a temp in several jobs, and in each one I was a really focused & excellent employee, and I didn’t really care about anything that anyone thought of me other than telling my agency that I did a good job.

        When I first got here, I brought in stuff to decorate my office. I had planned to stay here a long time, and I have… but only because I haven’t been able to escape.

      2. Namast'ay in Bed*

        That’s a good attitude to have!

        Also maybe start moving your decorations home one thing at a time if you can, make your future departure easier ;-)

    2. Middle Manager*

      Yeah, that’s terrible optics if not actual favoritism. If you have good HR, I’d second that as on option. Or maybe a grandboss that you could talk to about it?

    3. Argh!*

      Can you apply for jobs in another department? If you complain to HR they may be able to find another place for you to be. Of course your replacement will also be an outsider, but you’d have escaped.

      The Evil Part of Me wants to suggest messing with their stuff while they’re away, or perhaps throwing a party in the office and posting pictures on Instagram.

      The sensible part of me suggests applying for one job per day and using your temporary privacy to make phone calls to people you want to use as references.

      Good luck!

    4. Kathenus*

      I agree with a discussion with HR or grandboss. I’d focus almost exclusively on Alex and friends went on vacation together, and just after returning all Alex’s friends were promoted. At best the visuals look bad, at worst there’s blatant favoritism going on. Many companies would be worried about the optics, even though promoting friends wouldn’t be discriminatory in any legal sense. If you do it professionally, you shouldn’t have much to lose to bring it up and see how they react/act.

  142. I edit everything*

    I’m caught in a cycle of wanting to find a “normal” job and being happy with my freelancing life. The temptation of a regular paycheck, being part of a team, and not having to hustle quite so much for work faces off regularly against my significant freedom, doing the work I love, and not having to deal with crazy bosses and annoying coworkers.

    It feels like the longer I wait to return to an office life, the harder it’s going to be, as references from previous jobs become less relevant and immediate (or I lose touch with them), and my office experience less recent (no jobs in my field here, so I would have to switch fields, making general experience more important than my specific teapot redesign skills). I’m feeling stuck and stressed about the future, worried I’ll be one of those old ladies forced to work in McDonald’s eventually, just to make ends meet. But I also really, really want to keep freelancing.

    And every time I reach a conclusion about what to do, the argument with myself starts up again. I don’t even know what my question is for the assembly. Just a general slap upside the head, maybe.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Oh I so feel you! I want to switch the other way, but I’m paranoid that things would go wrong and I know that stability of knowing that I’ll still have my paycheck is probably keeping me sane. I hear the only solution for freelancing stress is to save up a LOT of money as a defense against slow times in the future, and for your own piece of mind.

  143. Anonymous Educator*

    Finally told my boss I was leaving my job this summer. He seemed a bit shocked, but it’s also hard to ease anyone into such news. It wasn’t because of anything wrong with the job. My spouse and I just want to move somewhere else. The timing is just a bit weird, because one of my co-workers left just a few weeks ago and gave only two weeks’ notice. So from the outside it seems like our people are jumping ship, but it’s really just coincidence that we’re both leaving around the same time after several years.

    I typically give long notice. Am I the only one who does this? Or does everyone else pretty much stick to two weeks-ish?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      It’s certainly a kindness if you can give it, and especially since your boss can now hire with both roles in mind. In the past I’ve somewhat regretted it – felt a little pushed out before I was ready, since they quickly moved to promote someone into my role and I was still there – and also it made getting the rest of my vacation approved a little weird. And I was a little sad to be excluded from the strategic planning that was going on, even though it did make sense. But it can help you get a better reference too, versus “she was great but we were really left in the lurch when she left.”

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I did have my boss cancel a conference I was scheduled to go to (that I’d planned long before knowing I was going to move). The logic was sound (I would have gone to the conference only a few weeks before departing, and there was plenty of time to cancel things without too much financial penalty), but it’s also a bit odd, because I could have, in theory, waited to give only two weeks’ notice and still gone to that conference.

        But, for the most part, I don’t feel pushed out, and I haven’t in the past either with long notice (I’ve given up to 9 months’ notice at another job).

    2. AnonyMoosewithTea*

      In most traditional companies, they could always fire you first before you’re ready, or make live a living hell for the rest of your time there. I think that’s what most people are afraid of and why they only give 2 weeks notice.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Well, if it makes a difference (and it probably does), I’ve mainly worked in schools. Even when working in non-teaching roles at K-12 schools, I’ve found they won’t push you out mid-year unless you’ve done something seriously wrong (e.g., embezzle funds, molest a child, etc.).

        1. CupcakeCounter*

          education is a whole different animal than corporate sector – in your situation, longer notice is significantly safer than out in the public sector

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            I guess so. I did have one corporate job, and I gave about six months’ notice there and was fine, but that was probably the exception to the rule.

            A big plus for my current situation is that my boss volunteered that they’d be glad to be a reference for me.

    3. Bunny Girl*

      I think it totally depends on your company! My latest job I transferred from department to the other and gave the shortest amount of time required by that company because I was so stressed out that it was impacting my health. But before that, I had a job I absolutely loved and I knew they wouldn’t kick me out early, so I gave them months of notice (I was moving out of state). So I think it really just depends. If it makes sense for you to give that much notice, yeah it’s fine. If not, also fine.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Some of it may be the company and some your supervisor. Sounds as if you got a really good feeling about whether you would be pushed out or not and ended up correct.

    4. Anax*

      I gave a similarly long notice as I was considering a move across the country – I let my boss know there was a possibility when I was pretty sure it would happen, and set a date when we’d figured out the logistics.

    5. Wishing You Well*

      If things aren’t good at work, 2 weeks notice is enough time. If they want to keep you longer, they can always pay you double as a consultant after you quit – if you want to. :)

    6. Akcipitrokulo*

      I once gave notice of “when we’ve finished this project” which turned out to be about 3-4 months. My leaving date was very flexible from my side (for family reasons I needed to relocate, but it wasn’t a “move now!” situation).

      Other than that it’ been the standard 1 month. Except where I am now, managers know I’m thinking of moving, and won’t be surprised if I do.

      But both those places were where there was a lot of trust.

  144. Indisch Blau*

    Just venting. About two weeks ago we were informed that work would be bdone on the heating in the building and that on March 14 and 15 we would have no heat. We’re in Central Europe, so it’s not as if conditions would be Arctic, but it’s not warm yet either. I asked the junior boss if it would be possible to work from home on those days and she said she’d talk to the senior boss but probably not because not everyone could work from home and it wouldn’t be fair. I also asked our unofficial employee representatives to talk to the bosses and the answer that came back was no because of fairness and that we could leave the heat on all night the night before and it’s getting warmer outside anyway. In the meantime I had the impression that none of the other employees were really worried about it being too cold to work. On Thursday I woke up sick with a bad cold, went to work for an hour to get something time-sensitive done, told the junior boss I was going home sick and called out today also. High temp today was in the low 50s but we have offices with 20 ft ceilings and two outside walls.
    What irks me is that we only have a few positions that really require someone to be there. There could have been a perk for the employees that absolutely cannot work from home. Awaiting reports on Monday.

    1. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Ugh that sucks. I had a boss once that tell us that since “the janitors can’t work from home, why should you be able to”, even though we were 100% computer-based and capable of working remotely.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        “Since the janitors don’t require a degree, why do I have to have one? Since the janitors are never asked to work more than 40 hours in a week, why should I?” Sheesh.

        1. this ain't a scene*

          “Since the janitors are actually not employed by us and are instead contracted through a specific agency, can you pay me a contracting fee in addition to my salary?”

  145. "Comparison is the Thief of Joy"*

    Apparently this is an old bromide (attributed to Teddy Roosevelt) but I’d never heard it before this week, and I’ve been thinking about it a lot ever since. I can really see a lot of times in my life where I was perfectly happy with what I had until I realized someone else was getting more – and there’s always someone out there doing better than you, even if you’re near the very top. There are some times – like wage equity – where it doesn’t play out well, but for the most part I need to take it on as a personal mantra, especially wrt social media and outward manifestations of “success.”

    1. fposte*

      Yup. And 90% of the time we’re comparing to those with more–we rarely realize that we’re the envious comparison for some other people.

      1. OP*

        That’s true, I suppose if your comparison was accurate to the whole world you’d probably come out with your satisfaction intact – but those never seem to be the comparisons I’m making. Good point.

    2. KayEss*

      Where I struggle with this is in creative work, as an artist… it’s completely impossible for me to not inherently and immediately compare my work to other artists/designers. Personally, I think that any artist who says they DON’T do that is lying, it’s that ingrained. What I’ve started to focus on doing is letting the comparing happen (rather than trying unsuccessfully to squash it, then being angry/guilty and feeling like a bad person because I couldn’t), but then either taking something to learn from it or setting it aside entirely, like “hm, that’s interesting but irrelevant.”

      I’m currently working on a project at work where a coworker and I are each doing a design variation for something, and our boss said straight-up at the start, “this is not a design competition.” It has still been hard to take that to heart, because my insecurities make me feel like my entire professional reputation is at stake (I have a formal design background, which is part of why they hired me, my coworker doesn’t) and his design is really good! I have to consciously try to look at them both objectively and tell myself, “these are both good designs, and we’re doing a good job by providing the client two strong but different options to choose from.”

      But… that sneaky little voice inside me will probably ALWAYS be like, “you know, everyone can see that his design is better and you’re worthless and to be pitied.” That’s why therapists stay in business.

      1. OP*

        Yes, I used to be able to keep that in check although I was always too fixated on my salary versus my friends’ or my sense of what other people’s were, but it kicked into overdrive recently because a creative side project took off. Should have been a cause for celebration, yay! Then as part of the marketing for that I was asked to start social media platforms. Now I find I’m wretched because I’m counting friends/followers/retweets, seeing that other people have way more, seeing that a lot of other people have similar side projects that are probably more successful than mine will be, and worrying about sales of this side project that used to be all for fun. (Also confronted by a lot of contentious conversations which might be a side piece of it). Something about the creative field seems to have really brought this out in me. I need to get back to the place where I was just pleasantly surprised by my stroke of luck. Help me, Teddy!

        1. Wishing You Well*

          I found a philosophy that really helped me: if you are envious of someone, you have to be envious of their entire life: their home life, their illnesses, their short comings, everything. If you think their entire existence is enviable, you don’t know them that well.
          That kills envy very quickly.

    3. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Someone did a really great piece on this and how Happiness = Reality – Expectations, I’ll post the link below.

        2. Sloan Kittering*

          Not loving the “kids these days” snark but the equation itself is just about right!

    4. Aphrodite*

      I’ve never heard that before, so thank you. It’s a goodie.

      I also like and often use this as a source of joy : Happiness is having what you want.

  146. It's the Internet. Stuff Happens.*

    Just had the WORST yearly review of my life this morning. I had been having some struggles but I still felt a little blindsided by how rough it was. I knew it wasn’t going to be great, especially when our actual boss left about ten minutes before the review time and he usually sits in. The VP and my director supervisor ran the meeting.

    We’re a VERY small company, and we’re trying to grow to a larger one. This has involved changing almost all of what we do and how we do it in a VERY short time. I admit I’ve fallen behind on really grasping/embracing the scope of the change, and I also agreed with some of their assessments about my weaknesses. I chose not to push back very much because they made a point of saying I didn’t have to sign a single thing today, and they would hold off on the final review for another month to see if I show significant improvement. They also said “this is not a performance improvement plan, this is a discussion about improving performance”.

    Historically we’ve been a very close company, and I have felt very pushed away and distanced. Some of that, it seems, may have been in my head a little bit. My own mental illness probably played a large part in my view of what has been happening and how I reacted to it, so I’m seeking treatment for that as of today. I know it’s been much worse for the past few months (I have anxiety/OCD) and a lot of their concerns very much touch on things that happen as a result of my intrusive-thought-cycling and anxiety stuff.

    I cried in the meeting, but so did the VP and my supervisor. Then they invited me to stay and chat about other things for twenty minutes or so so that I didn’t go back to my desk clearly upset.

    Has anyone here ever gotten just an absolutely terrible review? How did you come back from it? I’m being given the chance to build trust again and I’m a little worried about where to even start.

    2. Middle Manager*

      No direct advice, just sending some care. Maybe try to focus on the good pieces here? It sounds like you have really supportive management if nothing else.

    3. Wishing You Well*

      I’m sorry. It sounds like you have a lot to do in the next 30 days. Best of luck.

  147. Notinstafamous*

    Any suggestions for how to handle a ridiculous amount of work without feeling overwhelmed or losing track of details? I’m in a high-pressure role in a currently trendy field where we are dreadfully understaffed. I’m really happy in the role but it’s stressful working 70+ hours a week and still missing deadlines and not having the time to do quality control.

    1. KR*

      Can you create a checklist or tracking list for your projects if they’re similar enough? Also I am a big fan of having one packet, file, or note sheet for each project that I can refer back to and all of the relevant info and to-dos I need is on that.

      1. valentine*

        Something’s got to give and it shouldn’t be you/your health (including mental).

        Cut way, way back on the hours. Limit yourself to 45. What if you prioritized details and quality control? The sheer number of hours must be hurting your product. Can you go for quality, not quantity? If this were editing, I would focus on producing good pieces with near-zero errors. If that means only 20 good versus 50 rushed/barely skimmed, so be it.

        Since you’re missing deadlines, anyway, can they be moved? Anything a temp can pick up?

  148. Fiona*

    Has anyone pushed back on quasi-outlandish interview task requests?

    This question is for my partner. He was initially excited about a job opportunity and has advanced to the last round. He has already been asked to do a couple of tasks/homework assignments, which he’s done successfully. (They’ve taken him probably 3-4 hours or more). This last round involves doing a task that, in order for him to do well and feel good at, would take a LOT of hours. And similar to previous posts about, for example, a graphic designer doing a generic redesign on a website, it’s the kind of task that doesn’t actually show how one responds to a client’s needs. Basically it’s not a good use of his time or the company’s and it’s somewhat unreasonable. He wants to push back gently but as Alison has mentioned in previous posts, that can be awkward.

    Any advice?

    1. CAA*

      Is this the same employer for whom he’s already done two 3-4 hour assignments? More than one homework assignment during an interview process is too many, three is outlandish!

      Anything he says does risk them taking him out of the running, but if he’s willing to accept that possibility, he could point out that this assignment will take about x hours, and since he’s already invested y hours, that’s asking for a very big commitment of unpaid time and he’d like to instead provide samples of work he’s done in the past that’s similar.

      1. Fiona*

        Thanks for responding! I should have been clearer – he’s had 3 “assignments” and the work combined has been around 4ish hours or more. That said, I still think it’s too much!

        I wish there were samples he could provide – it’s more like doing a presentation, but I like your wording and appreciate your response, it’s really helpful.

  149. Drax*

    I NEED THE HELP PLEASE! I just got a job offer for a new position (like 5 minutes ago) but, the salary is less then I’d want. they sent it via email and I think I do want the job. How do I go about negotiating that without tanking the offer??

    1. KR*

      Email back and say, “Thank you very much for this offer. I am extremely interested in this role. Could we set up a call in the near future to discuss the salary and benefits further?”

      1. Drax*

        Oh thats perfect. I couldn’t figure out how to schedule a call without tanking it

        thank you! I will use that!

    2. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Check the archives, Allison has lots of advice on this! I think she even has scripts for what to say over email.

    3. Drax*

      Also for some context – I am freaking the hell out. Not sure why but I got the offer and an immediate panic spiral.

      I’d prepared for a phone call and negotiation but email just made my brain forget how to brain.

      1. irene adler*

        Suggest before you have the phone conversation, work on calming down.

        After you state your counter-offer, you don’t want to continue talking. Dummy up and allow the listener to take in your words. See, nerves tend to make one prattle on. And that’s the last thing you want to do here.

        In fact, try to take your time throughout the phone conversation.

        1. Jersey's mom*

          Yes! Write down what you want to say. Practice all weekend saying it out loud, slowly and clearly. Do not rush!!! It’s ok to pause and wait for a couple of seconds. In fact, since this’ll be a phone call, you can have your notes and a watch in front of you.

          It’s going to work out fine. They want you, and now all you have to do is discuss details.

        2. Natalie*

          The best part about being on the phone is you can do whatever you want with your face, or even write notes to yourself instead of speaking.

    4. Argh!*

      Why are you worrying about tanking the offer? If it’s not enough money for you, it’s not the job for you. I’ve turned down job offers due to money, and I never looked back.

      1. Drax*

        I’m in a real bad work situation right now. Lots of anxiety about going into receivership (we got paid yesterday but i’m not allowed my check until a payment comes in), no professionalism (posted a few weeks ago about the boss undoing his pants while talking to me cause he needed the bathroom down the hall, oh he also lives here and we’re a typical office in an old industrial area) and just generally hating the job and the bait and switch they pulled on me.

        You’re right though, I really should be focused on jobs for me not just anything that gets me out. That’s actually the first thing since I got the offer that stopped the panic spiral I’ve been in.

        1. Argh!*

          Then taking a job that doesn’t pay enough is kind of a win-win. You have an exit from BadJob and a good story for NextJob. I hope you can squeeze more money out of them, but if they’re inadequate check won’t bounce and you can cash it on pay day, you’ll be one step ahead of where you are now!

          1. valentine*

            If your employer is violating payment law, report him and tell him you need a cashier’s check (if you mean a paper check) by x (or by tomorrow, if the date the law allows has passed). Otherwise, if the check bounces, you can’t count on him to pay the fees. Assuming you’ve had direct deposit all this time, see if he’s willing to use it, assuming it can’t go wrong and cost you.

  150. Pink Shoelaces*

    Is there any hope in finding a job just by responding to postings on job boards? My husband has been looking for work for months and only had one interview. Our network isn’t very big and has been exhausted as far as leads go.

    I know that Alison says there is something wrong with your cover letter and resume if you go this long without bites, but he’s written both of them using the advice on this site. He’s had several people look at them and nobody has identified anything wrong with it.

    We just don’t know what to do at this point. Job searching sucks.

    1. KayEss*

      It really depends on the industry. I’ve gotten 3 of my 4 jobs by responding to postings on job boards (job search time of 6-12 months each), but I know there are industries where that basically never happens.

    2. this ain't a scene*

      Is there any hope in finding a job just by responding to postings on job boards?

      Yep. I know it can be really hard when the bites aren’t coming, but keep trying.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It’s a path worth investigating since the traditional ones aren’t working right now! He just needs to do his due diligence that they’re really a business and all that jazz, it’s not much different than Craigslist prior to them charging to try to get rid of the scammers.

      His resume and cover letter may be spot on and honestly not an issue, it’s about the pool he’s fighting against. If he’s got a niche job and a lot of people gunning for it, then you will absolutely have times when you get no call-backs. Someone has more schooling, a tie in to the company somewhere one extra year experience in something that you didn’t realize would even matter, etc.

      I know it’s hard not to internalize all this as well and my heart goes out to him and you for this tough journey!

    4. CAA*

      Yes, job boards work in my industry. I’ve hired dozens of people who’ve applied to my job postings on Indeed and LinkedIn, and I’ve even found a couple of people with specialized skills by searching for posted resumes and then emailing them.

      As a job searcher, the best thing that’s worked for me is applying directly through company web sites. I got one job interview via a referral from someone I know, and one because the hiring manager figured out from my resume that we had a mutual acquaintance and asked that person about me, but all the rest have come through the normal application process.

    5. xarcady*

      I’m currently searching and I have had 3 interviews in the past 5 months from job boards.

      In my case, there simply aren’t a lot of jobs in my field. And not very many in my local area. I have maybe 3 or 4 jobs a month that are solidly in my field, and another couple that are what I do plus something other job responsibilities.

      Are there any temp jobs your husband could do? Sometimes, but not always, temp work can turn permanent. And he could work on building a larger network with people from the temp jobs. And possibly hear of an opening that never gets posted to a job board.

  151. EJane*

    Oh god please help.
    My boss at my current job is a walking HR nightmare.
    It’s a small company, less than 15 employees, run by a husband (Boss 1) and wife (Boss 2) with a third individual(Boss 3) also at the top level of the org chart who is thankfully not related to them.
    The company has a lot of issues, which is what happens when you have a tiny company that has no discipline and suddenly grows in size and client base. It’s slowly coming together, due largely to the efforts of Boss 3, who has strong and very healthy visions of what a functional and thriving company looks like. We’re getting there.
    Two major problems:
    There is no HR.
    Boss 2 has NO IDEA what boundaries look like.
    I have a psychological disability (panic disorder) and require a service dog to mitigate the symptoms. On multiple occasions, she has overshared with me, pried into my medical history, offered her personal cell number for me to call if I have any issues… she once asked a female coworker, who is close friends with a male coworker, if fc was cheating on her husband with mc.

    It is a true and royal clusterfuck. Bosses 1 and 3 are magnificent, though, which is why I’m here.
    This week has been a nightmare, full of aggressive ‘verbal warnings’ sent over Slack by Boss 2, Boss 3 backpedaling and apologizing to me for her, me finding out that Boss 2 thinks I’m committing time card fraud (which has since been resolved but !!?!??!?!), and I have been HEAVILY medicated all week to get through work. (Quitting is an option, but it’s an option that will, for health-related reasons, result in me moving back in with my parents 5 hours south, and leaving my friends and social network here behind.)

    Yesterday morning, Boss 2 sent me a message that asked me why I’d asked Boss 3 if he was familiar with the ADA, informed me that because the company has 14 employees, the ADA doesn’t apply, and any accommodations she provides are provided because she wants to. (also, this is not true. Washington state HRC laws cover all business >7 employees.)

    I’m sharing that bit for the pure jaw-dropping beauty of it. She implicitly threatened me, IN WRITING, with possibly removing access to something I need as a member of a protected class.
    ANYWAY.

    Here’s my actual question.
    Boss 3 is willing and able to present suggestions and ideas without them being traced back to me. If I can find a presenter or some sort of “HR Basics” seminar that management can take, he will bring it up and push it with Bosses 1 and 2.

    Does anyone know of any resources like this, any speakers or other come-to-you sort of classes that can explain the absolute basics of HR, risk management, and the merit of staying out of your employees’ personal lives?

    For the record, Bosses 1 and 3 have MAGNIFICENT boundaries. It’s not impossible to find in this organization. Boss 2 is just…. a mess.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      This is assuming that you’re within reasonable distance to Seattle but they also hit Eastern Washington frequently as well.

      Pryor Learning Solutions does decent seminars

      She sounds like some of the people who have given me a near heart attack listening to in seminars talking about how they do things that are completely wrong.

      Sadly a seminar probably won’t fix this level of ineptitude.

      I’m sorry that quitting means leaving, it’s truly not possible to find a job prior to quitting and thus not being without a job??

      I have dealt with small business of this size for going on two decades. This is not the norm. This is not the norm. This is not the norm. Most who want their business to succeed do not act in such outrageous ways.

      1. EJane*

        We’re about an hour away, I think we’re close enough. I am ABSOLUTELY looking into that. It’s a start.

        I’ve literally never had to be on as much medication as I took this week to function, and holy shit am I having rebound anxiety. I can’t take it if this happens again.

        1. valentine*

          You need to leave ASAP with what’s left of your sense of propriety.

          Everyone here is sipping Boss 2’s cyanide. You’re all the “This is fine” comic with the dog sitting in an on-fire room. No one has boundaries and no one’s magnificent. That’s just not a thing. People who let someone abuse you aren’t magnificent, especially if they continue interacting with, especially being married to, the abuser. There is no “Mom was abusive, but Dad was a sweetheart”. No, Dad let Mom abuse you, which is in itself abusive.

          Bosses 1 and 3 are worse than 2. You can’t trust anyone. Assume 2 is reading all the email or that 1 and 3 are reporting everything you say to her. The business burdens, especially the lack of professionalism and the presence of lawbreaking and other gross behavior, aren’t yours to take on. 3 has given you busy work to make himself look good. This is like a nanny saying she’ll insist your abusive parents take parenting courses, but you have to find some. It’s understandable that you’ve seized on this, that you’re grasping anything that looks like a life preserver, but no. 1 and 3 want to keep their jobs (including the marriage), for whatever reason, and have accepted the twisted relations. Should 3 actually bring up the course(s), 2 won’t break a sweat as she continues to run roughshod over all of you. 2 has zero reason to change her behavior. She’s not going to see the light and transform. She owns the business and you’ve seen she can do what she wants. She’s free to break the law because, even if you had the resources to sue, you’d be out of the job and you’d be suing 1 as well, since he co-owns the business and is equally or more responsible for the goings-on therein. I’m guessing you don’t want to hurt his feelings and are prioritizing them above your own.

          So. Local Team You. Any couches or guest rooms they can help you with? Can you crowdsource for rent and/or move somewhere with roommates? What do you need to avoid returning to your parents’ home? Focus on that instead of on the HR red herring. Do what serves you. Be loyal to yourself alone, let everyone else fend for themselves, and don’t work for people who are naturally aligned against you.

  152. Astrea*

    I’m trying to apply for a job that I’ve been rejected for twice in past year despite being well-qualified. I’m awaiting a friend’s feedback on my cover letter and resume, terrified that the job opening could close at any moment but desperate to know how I can improve its presentation this time around. Outsiders have told me that this kind pf job is probably filled internally most of the time, with an external posting only made as required, so it feels like an exercise in futility. Said friend, who workers elsewhere in the same large and highly competitive institution, suggested reaching out to the position’s HR contact, but I don’t know what good that would do. I interned there ten years ago and one of my internship-bosses is still there, but I don’t know that he would be of any help for this different job.

    I don’t usually include references in a job application, but this one requires contact information for three references upfront, and I’m struggling to choose. My bosses at my current very-part-time job and volunteer work would speak well of me as a worker (and they know I’m continually seeking more work), but the tasks of those jobs aren’t the match match for the tasks in this prospective job. At a part job which is more of a match task-wise, and thus an important selling point on my resume, my boss often expressed disapproval of my work, attitude, and not-very-social interactions with colleagues (my depression was very sever at the time). When I resigned, she said she would give me a good reference if asked. I don’t trust that. But I’m afraid that if I don’t give a reference for that important job, the people considering my application will wonder why. Another boss at my most important job hasn’t worked with me since 2012, so I hope she remembers me enough to say that I thrived in that job. My friend suggested asking all of my possible references for letters of recommendation sent to me, and then give as references the people who wrote the best letters. I don’t want to take the time for that right now, and I don’t know if it’s ever an appropriate thing to do.

    I also got rejected for a job yesterday, without an interview. So my confidence and hope are especially diminished now.

    1. fposte*

      It’s not so much an exercise in futility as it is something that you should limit your emotional energy expenditure on. If you’ve been rejected twice for this job in the past year, a third application is an “oh, what the hell” Hail Mary pass. Maybe they’re hiring internally, or, equally likely, they’re getting a lot of applications from people who are well qualified for the job, and your application just hasn’t made the cut. It sounds like it wouldn’t hurt for you to do a little revamping of the resume and cover letter regardless, though, since the benefits there will transfer to applications elsewhere.

      If you’re in doubt about the reference you’d be given, don’t include that person. You’re better off with a less fitting reference selection than a bad reference. And your instincts are correct: it is a *very* bad idea to audition references by requesting them to write you a needless letter, and be very thoughtful about other hiring advice that comes from the person who advised that.

      I’m sorry things are tough right now; I hope you find something good.

      1. Astrea*

        Whoops, my typo. I’ve been rejected twice for this job in past *years,* two and three-quarters years to be more precise. It’s a temporary position, so it opens periodically, but I don’t know when my next chance will be. I worry about ‘wearing out my welcome’ with repeated applications, but the HR contact at least is different from the contact given the least time I applied, two years ago.

        It’s hard not to get emotionally invested in a job I want do much. Unfortunately, the friend whose applicatikn feedback I’m waiting on is the one who gave the letter of recommendations advice, so I don’t know if I’m sabotaging myself even more by awaiting and using that feedback instead of applying *right this minute,* though I can’t actually do the latter because finalizing my materials and doing the online process will take a while. If the job opening doesn’t close in the next few hours before the weekend, I’ll be able to relax more. For now, I’m super anxious.

        1. Astrea*

          Ack, more typos. I mean “*last* time I applied” and “want *so* much” and “*application* feedback.” I need to calm down and slow down.

          1. EJane*

            Speaking as someone who was unemployed for four months and got repeatedly emotionally attached, and then rejected, from multiple jobs:

            Force yourself to look for other options. Add to the pool of jobs you’re interested in. Look for other entry-level positions, if appropriate, and find multiple options that are interesting. They won’t be as thrilling as the one you’re looking at now, but it will divert some of that emotional energy in a different direction, and if you are rejected, it won’t be as devastating.

            1. Astrea*

              Thank you.
              I’ve been very underemployed since late 2015. Multiple disabiliries greatly limit the basic types od work I’m able to do *and* communte to, so I very infrequently see openings for jobs that seem doable enough for me to apply, and thus get attached to every possibility. This job is actually somewhat within my career field of interest, a rarity in this most livable locale.

    2. Psyche*

      Honestly, I’m not sure if your friend is giving you the best advice. Reaching out to the hiring manager is unlikely to help and could actually come across negatively. They know you want the job because you are applying for it. You don’t need to call and tell them you want the job. And asking for letters of recommendation to audition your references is a very bad idea. Most people would be put off by that request. If they did need to write a letter, it would be sent to the job, not to you (so there is a good chance they will see though the ploy). They are also less likely to be honest if they know you will be able to see it. So for example, the boss that you are not sure about would probably be bland in the letter (if she even writes one) but may be more negative in an actual reference check. You gain nothing but risk irritating your references.

      1. Astrea*

        My friend is a college professor, so now I’m wondering if the rules and customs around references are different in academia.

        1. fposte*

          Yes, very! Letters of reference are standard in academia (and in some other education-adjacent fields) but not at all outside of them.

          1. Astrea*

            I’ll tell her that. The institution I seek to work for is run by that college, but I don’t think the rules for academic hiring will be used for this kind of job.

  153. VictoriaQ*

    Ok I’m sharing this less because I need advice and more because I am completely baffled at how this company is still working. I got hired for a two-week temp job, started Monday. They have work that needs to be done before the ciritical deadline in two weeks. Once that deadline has passed, it’s no good.

    Now, Friday, I have done maybe 5 hours of work relating to that job, and certainly not the job itself, the whole week. I have no working computer, so I’m being passed around from office to office as my manager finds busywork for me to do (her words, not mine). We managed to jury rig the computer to work for one day, only to find out that I did not have access and when I did get it, I did not have the relevant programs installed. The next day, my coworker’s computer died and we had to use what we were using to juryrig my computer on his. No more computer. There seem to be constant IT issues, be it the internet going down, programs malfunctioning, etc.

    Now this is a branch of a much larger company, so it won’t fold the way an independent business would. But good god, this can’t be normal, right? I’m a recent grad without a lot of experience, especially wrt larger businesses.

    1. CAA*

      It depends on how important the work they hired you for is to their overall business plan. Maybe the coworker’s project has a higher probability of success and brings in more money, so if they can only complete one, it’s more worthwhile to spend the limited IT resources they have on him. Sadly, this is a lot more normal than you might think.

      1. VictoriaQ*

        Yeah, I get that my coworkers work is higher priority, and I wouldn’t begrudge him this. But we have two weeks to recoup as much of $2 million dollars as we can and it just baffles me that things aren’t even together enough to have one spare computer or laptop that works.

        But it was really emphasized during the interview how critical this project was and how tight the deadline was as well.

        1. valentine*

          Tell your temp agency. You don’t want these clowns blaming you for not finishing the project when they didn’t give you the required resources. There’s no good reason they can’t set up a temp login or log in as someone who’s out (assuming double logins aren’t allowed). Ask whether it’s worth it to have you there when you can’t even work on the project.

  154. Ada*

    Can any data analysts/data scientists/statisticians, etc. recommend any good (free) resources to brush up on/expand my data analysis skills? I currently do market research for a living, and while I love it, I really want to get into a more analysis-heavy position than what I’m currently doing (most of my current projects are fairly simple). I’m looking for a new job, but since I’m looking out of state, it will probably take a while. Figured I can brush up my skill set in the meantime. The resources I’ve found so far can be very hit-and-miss, so I’d love some specific recommendations so I don’t waste my time on something that won’t be helpful.

    1. Namast'ay in Bed*

      The Google Analytics Academy has a lot of great trainings, and getting certificates from there are actually resume-worthy. I’d take a look there and see if anything they offer fits with your goals!

  155. Pennalynn Lott*

    I had a five-hour interview-a-thon with 7 other interviewees yesterday at a huge company that’s local to me. I sent my Thank You emails first thing this morning, including one to the HR recruiter asking for an employee’s email address. (He was connected to the group networking session via video from the other side of the country and I really liked what he said about his job in data analytics, so I wanted to send him a Thank You-lite email).

    Anyway, the recruiter, who normally responds within minutes, took almost two hours to reply. She said, “We will be in touch in the next few days regarding your status. Feel free to stay connected!” and included the employee’s email.

    So now I’m feeling like I’m not going to get the job. All the interviewers and the recruiter met immediately after our interviews were over to discuss us, and we were told that a decision would be made “in the next day or two.” It’s not just the delay in her response, but that I was the ONLY candidate over the age of 25 (I’m 52). I think the only reason I made it to the in-person interviews is that my first, screening interview happened over the phone (versus video, which is what it was supposed to be but we had technical difficulties).

    I have a two-day interview-a-thon next week with another huge local company. Again, there will be a bunch of 20-something, soon-to-be-college-graduates being interviewed. . . plus me. (Also a soon-to-be-graduate but, ya know, old enough to be their mom). I’m more interested in working for next week’s company, so I’m trying to not let my experience with yesterday’s company cloud my enthusiasm. The good thing about being invited for in-person interviews with next week’s company is that I’ve been through both a phone screen and a recorded (not live) video screening with them. So at least they could see that I’m not 25 but still chose to invite me anyway.

    So, yeah, interviewing for new-graduate, entry-level, positions is hard when you’re middle-aged. :-(

    1. CAA*

      Please don’t read anything into the 2-hr delay. She might have been at a doctor’s appointment. Even if they met right after the interview day, they might have to send their recommendations for hiring up the chain for review and approval, so it could still take a few days to get an offer out.

      1. Pennalynn Lott*

        Thanks! I am trying not to read anything into it. . . and failing, as you can see. :-) But I’m also trying to stay focused on next week’s interview and my school work, taking Alison’s advice to act as if I’m not going to get the job and move on. If they end up making me an offer, it’ll be a pleasant surprise. Maybe by tomorrow I can fully adopt that attitude!

  156. Staycation!*

    I’ve been off all week – originally was going to visit family but that didn’t work out for a variety of reasons, so I turned it into a staycation. I was worried that I’d keep getting buzzed by coworkers but they’ve been fantastic about (mostly) leaving me alone.

    I’ve gotten so much done, including some big-batch meals that leave me leftovers for a couple of weeks at least and some desperately needed house work. Now I’m ready to go back to work Monday morning, even knowing that I’m likely to have to catch up for a day or two.

    1. CAA*

      Yay! Much as I love travel, sometimes cocooning at home for a while can be the best kind of vacation.

  157. Eight*

    I’ve posted here a few times over the past 2 years (under different names—sometimes I can’t remember what I was using if it’s been a while) about my toxic workplace and my struggles with job hunting. I’ve always had a sense of hopelessness about job hunting because I’ve an extremely hard time finding a job in college, after graduating from college, and while looking to transition from my current job. I felt unhireable for a long time and had been dreading working my way back up from an entry level position.

    Well, the day finally came: I’m starting a new job in May, and they offered me almost double my current salary. I had no idea they would make me that kind of offer and I am absolutely floored. From what I can tell, the job aligns really well with my career goals and what I want in work culture. Suddenly it seems like it was worth the wait.

    Thank you to everyone who’s been kind enough to offer advice or words of encouragement here :) This website has been so helpful to me.

  158. Kaden Lee*

    I’ve been sending emails for job hunting and setting up interviews from my Gmail account, with the wrong (yet still professional looking email) listed in the signature. For example, if my name is Samantha Smith, my email is samantha.smith@gmail.com but the signature lists samsmith@gmail.com. Is this a big enough deal to reach out and correct with recruiters and interviewers?

    1. CAA*

      So if the recruiter hits “reply”, her message will arrive in your inbox just fine; but if the recruiter clicks on the email address in your signature, her message will end up in somebody else’s inbox and you’ll never see it. I wouldn’t reach out to anyone you’ve already heard from, but if there’s someone who hasn’t replied about a job you’re really interested in, then I think forwarding the previous message with a very short explanation and apology at the top and a corrected signature is fine.

      (I assume this is not a case of moving or removing dots, as in “samantha.smith@gmail.com” vs “samanthasmith@gmail.com”, because those are actually the same address to gmail and in that case you have no problem and definitely should not send out a correction.)

      1. Kaden Lee*

        Thanks everybody! The emails in question are exactly like the samples, in that one is my full name with a period and one omit the period and uses a shorter version of my first name.

        Follow up, on a scale of 1 to 10 how much of a flub is this?

    2. gecko*

      Yes, if you don’t have access to that email. If you can get that email address and just use it, great. But it’s possible they’ll use that address, if they don’t have direct access to to the original message you sent, or something along those lines.

    3. Kathenus*

      Agree with CAA and gecko, I’d reach out to let them know, with the correct email and a quick ‘sorry for the inconvenience’. Good luck with the hunt!

  159. LGC*

    So, second post: I work at a place where only supervisory staff has emails. (For the record, it’s a work program for people with disabilities. Our employees/clients generally don’t need email for what they do.) Upper management sends out a lot of announcements and expects us to stop work to repeat them. This annoys me (because it stops everyone from working and also because inevitably people have questions and it turns into a meeting), so I’m trying to think of ways to reduce the number of announcements.

    Difficulty: my team often doesn’t pay attention to passive information. Or active information sometimes. I’ve done memos on occasion, but I don’t like wasting paper. I’ve also used our whiteboard and blackboard with limited success.

    1. Middle Manager*

      Could you schedule a set time for announcements, like a very brief team meeting at the beginning or end of the day, or maybe even just once a week if there aren’t a lot of announcements/they aren’t time sensitive?

      1. LGC*

        The other difficulty is that a lot of them are somewhat time-sensitive, and our team works on varying schedules (which is great for them but a complete pain in the butt for me). What I’ve been doing is picking a set time around break to make announcements, and trying to set boundaries about questions (because sometimes things get derailed). This is…mildly successful.

        Also, I just don’t like speaking. I’ve considered getting a hot pink notebook, a bunch of teen magazines, and writing down everything in that and making everybody initial off on it. (For the record, I did go down on a hot dog, but it was just that one time.)

  160. Teapot Librarian*

    What a day, what a week, what a month. I’ve been working until 8 or 9pm 3 nights a week, Hoarder is being his usual trying self (including that his handwriting is ridiculously hard to decipher), and my lunch today consists of crackers and soda. Is it the weekend yet?

    1. CAA*

      Almost! Hang in there. I hope you have some time to relax this weekend. OT that goes on week after week can really wear you out.

    2. Public facing librarian*

      Teapot Librarian,
      Public Facing Librarian. I feel your pain. Its officially the weekend but I am trying to figure out if I can not do paperwork and budgets this weekend since I spent all waking hours putting out fires. (figuratively)

  161. NicoleK*

    I posted last week about being candid with Boss about incompetent BEC coworker. Boss had scheduled a meeting a month out to discuss improving efficiencies on our team. When I met with Boss this past week, I was candid with her about incompetent BEC coworker. I listed the things BEC coworker struggle with. I was unemotional and said things in a straight forward manner. About how you can’t address efficiencies without addressing the elephant in the room-that we have a team member who takes 3x as long to complete her tasks and etc. Boss thanked me for my feedback. Her main concern was that the “efficiency” meeting not take on a personal and blaming tone. I seriously doubt she’ll address the issue with BEC coworker as she’s been enabling and protecting BEC coworker for the past 6 years.

      2. NicoleK*

        What Michelle wrote. Essentially, it’s a coworker that really, really annoys the crap out of you.

  162. Anon anony*

    Micromanaging boss took it to a new extreme this week by telling me that my desk had “too many papers on it”. (Um, that’s my work?) Anyone ever have a similar boss?

    1. London Calling*

      Yup. When I was temping for a pharmaceutical courier company. We generated a ton of filing every month, and staying on top of it was my job. One day I’m archiving and she walked past and snapped ‘Those boxes are too full!’ OK, I took some out and filled some extra archive boxes. Following week I’m loading up boxes again – making sure they aren’t too full – when she walks past, peers into them and snaps ‘You can get some more files in there!’ Ohhhhkayyy. I didn’t like the job anyway, and told the agency to tell whatever lie they had to to get me out of there.

      Several years later I was temping somewhere else when I had a colleague who had also worked for said courier company. ‘Is X still there?’ I asked. My colleague just rolled her eyes. Clearly X still was.

    2. elemenohp*

      I had a boss who would throw away papers left on your desk if she thought it was too messy/if she was feeling particularly stressed (I am pretty sure she had clinical OCD and literally could not control herself).

      I learned to put all my papers in a drawer before leaving for the day, so she wouldn’t throw out anything important.

  163. jeweled tortoise*

    Hi everyone. I’m beginning a career in academia and have been invited to interview for a part-time salaried position. It comes with a very exciting title and I wouldn’t have to move. I also travel a lot in my academic-adjacent industry, so this could be a good situation that would still allow me that flexibility. So, huge pros.

    BUT….I just had a discussion with a colleague in the department. They have been a mentor and colleague for a long time, and they were very frank with me. They said the environment was difficult if not toxic, that there is huge turnover, that the workload was enormous…basically, they said I need to have my eyes open and know what I was getting into.

    I’m going to interview no matter what, and of course I can consider all this if I’m offered anything. But I’m starting to think about it now especially as I prep for the interview and decide which questions to ask and what my own vision is for what I’d accomplish in the position. Basically — as was established a while back with a previous LW and with a huge number of commenters — even getting an interview for something like this in academia is rare, and I don’t have any other options right now (nor have I in many months). I do struggle to make ends meet, even with my other industry work, and I’d like to take an opportunity if it’s presented to me, and especially if it might be one of the few or only ones I get!

    BUT from reading this site I know the perils of knowingly going into a dysfunctional workplace. I’m not sure what to do. Any thoughts would be welcome.

    1. Reba*

      That sounds intense! I’d say think of ways that you can try to carefully probe the issues with your questions in the interview — probably not very deeply if this is just a first round (“just”! ha, congratulations on getting the interview). It sounds like understanding work expectations given that it’s part time would be important to establish, but this could be one of those cases where, like Alison has written about management style, the answer you get might not be really accurate.

      If you are offered the job and decide to take it, I feel like just going in informed is a powerful good. And maybe you take the attitude that you already know it’s just for now. In other words, you might take the job but not really actually stop your job search.

      Good luck!

  164. JC*

    Required Prayer at work???

    I had a phone interview this week for a nonprofit that does a lot of standard nonprofit work (food bank, clothing drive, backpack drives for local schools, wildfire relief donations, etc). The only indication of any religious affiliation was one small note at the bottom of their website that indicated they were a “faith-based partner.” I didn’t think much of this and assumed it most likely meant they partnered with local churches for some of their volunteer/donation needs.

    I had a half hour phone interview, all seems good, and at the very end the interviewer super casually mentions she wants to make sure I would be a good “culture fit.” She explained that this meant they believe God is guiding all of their work, and they pray together sometimes. I asked if it was a certain type of prayer, and she said no its just regular Christian prayer. Well I’m Jewish, and it’s incredibly obvious from my resume given the organizations I’ve worked for. So I said I’m Jewish and not really comfortable participating in Christian prayer and asked if she could tell me a little more. And she said no it’s no big deal, it’s just you know daily prayers at the beginning of the workday, and then adds totally nonchalantly that at the end of the weekly staff meeting the CEO prays over them all. (HE PRAYS OVER THEM!!!???) I asked if it was required to participate and her response was that of course I wouldn’t be expected to lead any, and that really it’s not any specific denomination, but she wouldn’t say that it wasn’t required to participate in it. I ended the call awkwardly, but I’m wondering if that’s even legal to require?? and also debating if I should send an email to at least give her my opinion that they should advertise that “culture” in the job posting before I wasted over a half hour of my morning on this.

    (For what it’s worth, I currently work at a synagogue and have NEVER been required in any way to participate in prayer, and we have many staff that are not Jewish, and of course are not required to participate in religious observances, so I find the required prayer to be VERY odd, especially when it’s not related to the work they do.)

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I don’t know if it’s legal but frankly, I wouldn’t care. I’d be running too fast in the other direction. You already know this job is not going to work for you. In your position (I’m also Jewish), I wouldn’t even bother with the email, because I doubt it will change their practices.

    2. this ain't a scene*

      Run. Run away. Even if you can get them to be less intense, you aren’t going to get them to stop, and this is going to poison the work environment for you. And, yeah, definitely leave them a note saying that.

      My old job didn’t have anything like that and there was *still* a ton of Christian pressure at the oddest moments. These people are at least being outright from the start. That old job and the one before that both subjected me to “nondenominational” prayers, neither of them caring that it was “nondenominational” within a specific denomination, and that it was really uncomfortable to be there otherwise.

      1. JC*

        Definitely not going to continue interviewing if they even want to, I’m more just upset and also debating sending them an email or something to tell them at the very least it should be advertised. (or maybe glassdoor review?)

        Also with the time change, getting up extra early before work for a completely useless phone interview made me extra cranky about it!

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Absolutely leave a glass door review!

          It sounds hella illegal to me, but IANAL.

          1. Festo*

            It’s not illegal. Religious organizations are allowed to be religious. Leaving a glassdoor review seems a little over the top. It sounds like they did advertise that they are a faith-based organization, but JC didn’t pick up on it.

            1. LizB*

              A synagogue is a faith-based organization, but JC’s current synagogue workplace doesn’t require prayer. My current Christian-affiliated workplace doesn’t, none of my or my friends’ Jewish-affiliated workplaces ever have. “Religious organization” does not mean across the board that they require their employees to pray and be prayed over.

      2. this ain't a scene*

        And, yeah, definitely leave them a note saying that.

        Erm, by which my “all on top of each other” way of writing comments meant “leave them a note saying the thing you said you were thinking of telling them”. Not telling them that it would poison the environment.

        Anyway, shabbat shalom l’kulam (good shabbos, everyone). ;)

    3. xarcady*

      Well, at least they were honest about the prayer. Although it seems odd that an organization that focused on religion wouldn’t have more mention of it in the job posting.

      For what it’s worth, I’m Catholic. And there was this one really nice looking job at a Catholic organization that I was interested in. Until I read everything that they wanted applicants to submit, and long with resume, cover letter and portfolio, they wanted a statement about how your Catholic faith would help you do your job and how you would manifest your faith in your job. Or something like that, it was a while ago.

      I never applied. It just seemed very, very odd to me and I wondered about what other, unexpected, pitfalls there would be in an organization that was that religiously focused. (And it was not a church. It was a Catholic school, and I’ve applied to other Catholic schools for jobs and never, ever, seen anything like that. I attended a Catholic university and other than the crucifix in one dining hall, you would never have known it was a religiously-affiliated organization. )

      1. Catleesi*

        When I was looking for jobs in higher ed last year I saw several postings that required confirmation of a “testament of Christian faith” as part of the hiring process. These were obviously private religious institutions but I was still really surprised – and I did my undergrad a Catholic college.

      2. JeanB in NC*

        I’ve been looking at jobs at private universities, many of which are religious, and it really varies how much emphasis they put on the religious aspect. I’ve seen a couple that mention nothing about religion (other than the usual “we don’t discriminate on the basis of race, gender, religion, etc.”, and a couple that really clearly wanted someone of the same faith. I’ve learned to look very carefully at the hiring page to make sure if it’s even worth it to apply.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I.

      Woah. That sounds danger-zone cultish and I’m glad they at least don’t get you in there and then just dump holy water over your head at your orientation.

        1. JC*

          To me as someone who’s not Christian, it seems extremely odd to have someone who’s not a religious leader pray “over” others. That may be more normal in Christianity though? It’s also strange that even though their work isn’t religious in nature, it’s a requirement of the job to participate. That and since it’s a small, local nonprofit, not part of a larger organization or affiliated with a church or other religious institution, it seems like the CEO is starting his own little ‘church of employees’ so to speak. If it helps any too, I’m not in a part of the country where it would be assumed most people are church-goers or where it would be at all common to pray together at work.

          1. Lilysparrow*

            Yes, praying “over” someone in Xian-speak just means one person is asking blessings on the group, usually extemporaneously. It’s very common and implies a warm relationship, not hierarchy. It’s the sort of thing a very devout grandma would do.

            In work or volunteering situations, it sometimes winds up being more like a coach’s pep talk.

            The other approach would be group prayer, where people take turns speaking “as they feel led” or going around in a circle. Or reciting a common prayer in unison.

    5. Festo*

      For future reference, “faith-based partner” is a pretty standard way for religious organizations to describe themselves in job descriptions. Part of the reason they include it is so people can self-select out if they aren’t ok with prayer at work.

      1. JC*

        Thanks, that’s good to know!

        They must be relying on that to get the point across, there was nothing about religion in either their ‘about me,’ ‘founder’s story,’ or ‘mission statement’ on the website.

        I was also surprised that given my very obvious religious background from my resume (seriously, I’ve worked at like four places that have the word “Jewish” in the organization’s name), that she brought it up almost as if it were an afterthought, and as though I shouldn’t think it was a big deal.

        1. valentine*

          It seems like they know it’s illegal and she soft-peddled it because telling you “Jewish people need not apply” is definitely illegal.

    6. LizB*

      I’m with everyone who says RUN. On top of everything else, a huge pet peeve of mine is Christians saying that a Christian prayer/ceremony/other religious observance is “non-denominational,” and therefore it should be fine for me as a Jew to participate. No no no, my friends, non-denominational does not mean interfaith, it does not mean neutral, it means Christian, and I am not one of those. Judaism is not Diet Christianity, it is a whole ‘nother thing.

      1. JC*

        Exactly! She even pivoted partway through when I said I’d be uncomfortable and said well it’s really that we follow “Judeo-Christian” values. -_-

      2. Lithic*

        If anything Christianity is diet Judaism! Jesus being called king of the Jews confused the heck out of me a kid when I was pretty sure we were in a Christian (Anglican to be precise) church.

    7. Kathenus*

      I agree with xarcady that it’s good that they were open about this during the phone interview. It absolutely would not be a fit for me as I’m agnostic at best, so I’d be happy to find out the role that religion plays in the organization before I spent much effort on the process. It might have been helpful if they were more specific on type of religion, but Festo is correct that ‘faith-based’ definitely is used to describe religious organizations. So I don’t think they did anything wrong, it’s just not a fit.

      1. Leah K*

        Why would someone assume “faith” is a default term for Christianity?

        The OP doesn’t have an issue with religion, just being forced to pray everyday. It’s uncommon enough that it should be mentioned in a job description.

        1. JeanB in NC*

          There are a lot of people who would self-select out of anything describing itself as faith-based. Doesn’t matter what faith they are referring to, whether it be Christianity, Buddhism, or Pastafarian.

          1. JC*

            Sure, but on their end as far as advertising their org. and a job there it’s a big difference between just “faith-based” and requiring employees to participate in that faith daily.

    8. Lilysparrow*

      Thing is, Acts of Mercy are very much spiritual activities in the Christian tradition. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit prisoners, etc. Yes, a lot of nonreligious or non-Christian orgs do the same things. But since the motivation for doing them is doctrine, it’s not really accurate to say that the prayers “have nothing to do with the work.”

      I’d expect that for the folks in the org, the prayers have everything to do with the work.

      Christian nonprofits vary widely as to how much they operate as a ministry vs a job with a religious mission statement. Regular prayer times to open or close the day are not unusual in smaller or more hands-on groups, IME.

      The problem was that they were not signalling the culture in a way you recognized until you were far enough in that you felt blindsided. That’s bad practice.

      I have seen a lot of Christian denominations and orgs rely on coded language that has a lot of very specific meaning to people steeped in Christian doctrine or subculture, but is completely opaque to mainstream eyes.

      That’s not right. They should do better.

      I’m glad she at least brought it up when she did. Hopefully they will figure out that they need to be more publicly transparent in order to find people who would be happy in the role.

  165. Mbarr*

    Me: We need this fixed. Here’s the Change Request.
    IT: Oh, this is simple. We’ll do the work as an Incident Ticket instead.
    *4 months later*
    IT: Here’s your fix. We couldn’t do everything as a ticket, so you’ll have to submit a Change Request.

    3. Office Gumby*

      If your ticketing system is halfway decent, it should have that your request was originally submitted as a Change Request. Beat them over the head with that.

  166. Beth Anne*

    Does anyone listen to the Sporkful Podcast? They recently had an episode about people that steal other peoples lunch and reminded me about a lot of topics that have come up on this blog.

    The one thing I never thought about that many people called in about was that there are people that bring in a bottle of ketchup or ranch or a fancy sauce/dressing and it becomes a “communal bottle” and they were getting mad that other people were finishing it. I’m torn on that though I feel like if you put ranch in the fridge others will probably use it and if you don’t want to share don’t put it there.

    1. fposte*

      Can’t get behind you on that one, I’m afraid. Where else are they supposed to keep their ranch? Does that logic allow other people to take half your refrigerated lunch?

      If they’re taking up an inappropriate/disproportionate amount of room in the fridge that means other people can’t store stuff, that’s a different problem. But my take is that unless food is explicitly labeled as for general use, it’s off limits.

    2. KayEss*

      If I brought in a personal bottle of sauce, I’d probably at least write my name on it so people knew it wasn’t communal. Communal condiments are enough of a thing that I can understand why people would assume, but you should be able to put a stop to it fairly quickly. (Assuming everyone has good intentions. Some people will definitely be like, “oh, she’ll never miss just a little” and then you have no ranch, which is its own problem.)

      1. valentine*

        For thieves, your initials just mean they have some idea who they’re robbing. People know there’s no Ranch Fairy and, even if the rancher wanted to “share”, they don’t know how much anyone’s going to take, so there’s no good way for them to stay on top of replacing it.

    3. Catleesi*

      The places I work has been if there are initials on it – it’s not for communal use. No initials meant people could help themselves. This comes into play most often with coffee creamer, but if you’re someone that has salad a lot I can definitely see wanting a bottle of dressing.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Like Catleesi said, in some workplaces, no initials means anyone can use it. At Exjob, people did bring their own condiments and we did NOT assume they were communal, but that was specific to that workplace. It depends on where you are and what everyone’s agreed to.

      Personally, if I need condiments for specific foods, I bring them in my lunchbox. I don’t like to leave stuff like that at work. My lunchbox is usually big enough to hold it, plus I have tons of little containers.

      1. Beth Anne*

        yeah that’s what I have always done as well. I just brought what I needed for that days lunch. But I’m not a big salad/condiment person in terms of things I’d bring from home. I’m a chips and sandwhich lunch person most of the time. I currently work in a restaurant so I have access to all the dressings I want ha. Most places I have worked the boss/owner purchased the coffee creamer.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Same here–I like a sandwich or I’ll make enough dinner to bring leftovers the next day. Coffee, creamer, and cocoa were always provided. And tea, at Exjob, but I liked to bring my own of that as well because I’m picky, LOL.

  167. Justin*

    Kinda having a stuck moment here. My job is boring but it pays better than other jobs in my industry (adult ed).

    I expect I’ll be able to do a wider range of things after my doctorate ends, but I do.not.care about the curricula I currently develop. I like my coworkers, the office, the commute, etc. But I feel like my work has little impact. Yet I’m paid a lot more than I was at my last job.

    I know the solution is probably to wait out my doctorate, but that’s a ton of time to wait to find my work interesting. All my coworkers are work-to-live not live-to-work, which is smart, but it’s hard for me to find intrinsic motivation (I have MH issues, and things go… grey) if I don’t care.

    Will continue to see my professional and keep the rest of my life full. But the work is just so achingly dull.

    This is probably just me whining. But I can’t see a job that would pay me as much or more (I can’t really make less and keep us paying our rent) that I’d be interested in right now. And with my psych struggles, it’s a challenge.

    1. Justin*

      I should have anonymized this, I guess, but there’s probably more than one Justin in adult ed in this country. I should hope so.

      1. irene adler*

        Just a thought: would having a new project at work be of interest to you- and thus reduce your boredom? If so, can you speak to the boss about finding something like this?

      2. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I hope you’re my friend/former coworker Justin who does continuing ed at a niche med school! If not, hi anyway. I think there’s a lot to be said for mental stimulation and feeling fulfilled by your work (and it’s the reason I left that workplace in May 2017). On the other hand, stable pay and benefits are really damn freeing, and allows one the freedom and security to explore their passions and interests outside of work.

        I would recommend starting to take a look at what else is out there – set up job alerts on HigherEdJobs, browse the employment pages of institutions you know you’d like to work at, casually mention to your grad school colleagues that you might be starting to consider moving on. There’s nothing wrong with continuing to do your current job while investigating other possibilities. You might find something that fits your criteria and is more interesting, or you might decide that you really are in the best position for now.

        Maybe in the meantime you could determine what areas of your current work you DO find fulfilling and try to concentrate on those – do you enjoy the challenge of creating new programs? Managing and coaching other staff? Figuring out a problem? And is there a way to dive deeper into your field rather than your specific work? For example, I’m a fundraiser and used to be at an institution that was totally backwards. I spent a lot of time reading about fundraising best practices and challenged myself to get better at the work, even though I didn’t care about the institution where I worked.

    2. Beth Anne*

      I totally feel the same way but haven’t really found other jobs that I like better than my current job.

  168. Sam Sepiol*

    I got onto some highly sought after leadership training in work, which gives me excellent chances of getting a promotion within the next year – presuming an opportunity arises – that would mean a 20%+ pay rise. I’m so excited!!

  169. Shira*

    I’m an attorney and moved to a rural state from a city two years ago to take a job. The job is pretty great, but I really dislike where I live. I’m very lonely and don’t fit in here at all. I have one friend and that’s about it. I am looking for other jobs back in more urban areas. If I get a job somewhere else, I assume people here will ask why I’m leaving. The thing is, this job is pretty damn ideal, and I have a feeling that any job I get elsewhere won’t be as good/neat-sounding, and I’m not sure anyone will believe me when I say, “Just looking for a new opportunity!” or “A great opportunity came up and I couldn’t pass it up!” Any ideas?

    Also, my parents think there should be a section of my resume where I link to articles in national publications in which I’m quoted/cited. It’s hard enough to keep my resume to 1 page as is (early 30s, worked b4 law school, about 4 years out of school). Is this crazy?

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Be truthful. Tell them that you need to be in a city! They shouldn’t take it personally, people who aren’t irrational will understand completely.

      I have had to deal with this moving from rural to city before, I’m from the “rural” area, lots of people cannot find happiness there. You say “I love this job, I think you’re all fantastic but my outside work life needs to be more fulfilling and I cannot find that here in Small Town”

      Then you send them a youtube link to “Nobody Gets Off In this Town” ;)

      Your parents are sweet and probably super proud of your published quote so much they want everyone to know about it. But yeah, you don’t need that on your resume if you aren’t looking for filler.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        I’m dumb and realized you’re asking about interviewers asking, I thought about your coworkers lol. Wow…need coffee and less post head-cold brain farts.

        When I was relocating, I just told them that I had ties to the city and love it, it’s not always about escaping your old job, it’s about doing you. I bet most people are going to be stoked to get a resume from someone who is a good candidate and leaving for these kinds of reasons instead of the job candidates this economy has been turning out with low amounts of job-searches except for a lot of forever-job-searchers

        1. Shira*

          I was actually asking about people with whom I work, not necessarily c0-workers though. I interact with a lot of people in state government and would like to keep on good terms with them, but I’m worried they may feel, ah, a little insulted by my not liking their state.

          1. Kathenus*

            I don’t think that’s likely. I’ve done the opposite before, I prefer rural areas but am in an industry that is almost exclusively located near cities. When I had the chance to move to a rural area in my field, people totally understood moving for a personal quality of life reason. The vast majority will completely understand it in the rural to city direction too.

          2. Anax*

            I’m from Flyover Land myself, and everyone I know would 100% get it. “This has been a great opportunity, but I really miss living in the city” is very normal.

      2. NACSACJACK*

        Just tell them you miss the big city. They wont understand, but it happens often enough that it is acceptable. If I could have quit my first job before I got fired, that would have been my reason for leaving and its what I told people while I worked out my notice. Very generous company let me work six weeks, but should have let me go right away with six weeks severance.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      It doesn’t much matter whether people believe you or not, and there’s nothing you can do if they don’t … in any event, “a great opportunity came up and I couldn’t pass it up” is 100% honest. Maybe “I’m looking for a change of pace” — “pace” can be understood as “lifestyle” (as in rural vs. urban) or “type of work.”

      As for your resume, nothing wrong with 2 pages once you’ve had professional school, media exposure, and that much work under your belt.

    4. Coverage Associate*

      I haven’t checked Alison’s advice on this, but when I was at your stage, I began dropping the bulleted pre-law school achievements from my resume, to keep it to 1 page. No one has asked about pre law experience since law school, even where I thought it was relevant (eg healthcare experience in a personal injury practice).

      And I agree with others that it’s fine to say you miss an urban environment. My current firm knows it’s a draw to be directly over a subway station.

    5. Sam Sepiol*

      I think it’s really fine to say “I love this job and all my colleagues but I miss living in the city”. You can even sound regretful that you haven’t been able to make it work.

  170. Not Edna*

    Tips for dealing with a coworker who cannot get my name right after 4+ months? This is getting really annoying. I have a somewhat uncommon name, and occasionally someone will think my name is a more common name that starts with the same syllable (say my name is Edmund and someone calls me Edward), but it’s never been an ongoing thing. At first this coworker thought my name was Edna (even though I’m a man). Now she calls me Edward. There are less than 10 of us in the office at a given time, we work closely together, and she sees my name in writing every day. Is there anything I can do besides correct her every time? At some point I am definitely going to snap at her over it.

    1. Teapot Librarian*

      I would probably have snapped already, so you’re doing well in my book! I think you really just have to say “actually, it’s Edmund” every time she misnames you. And honestly, maybe talk to your supervisor: “hey, so-and-so keeps calling me Edward, and even though I correct her, she keeps doing it. I’m worried I might snap if this continues. Can you help me out by talking to her?”

      1. Not Edna*

        Yeah, maybe I should let my manager know so that she’s aware of it if I do totally lose it in the future, haha. I don’t think it will do anything for the coworker though, since she’s…like that. For instance, today we discovered she’s been getting up at 2:30am (!!) to drive for an hour and a half to take a bus for an hour to get to work (an hour early), when she lives a 45-minute drive away, because she forgot there was employee parking. And after employee parking was re-explained to her she thought it was too confusing and is apparently going to keep getting up at 2:30am. I think she doesn’t know a couple other coworkers’ names either but is aware of it and talks around it. I’d rather she did that for me than call me something else!

          1. valentine*

            So she just sits around at work yet unable to work for an hour, daily? She’s lucky it’s open.

            Tell your manager.

            I don’t suppose everyone would agree to a chorus of “Edmund” when she says Edward. Mentionitis might also help: Everyone says your name as much as possible. She thinks parking is more complicated than taking a bus, wasting two hours a day, and shortening her life via sleep deprivation, so maybe Ed- names are also just too complicated for her. I guess points for not considering Edna gender-inclusive, but minus those same points and more for simultaneously misgendering you.

            If you email her, maybe include your name as much as possible: “Hi, Karnie. Edmund here. TPS reports now require a cover. Best, Edmund (signature:) Edmund Horsepower”.

        2. An Amazing Detective-Slash-Genius*

          No wonder she can’t remember your name, she’s probably sleep deprived! Holy cow

    2. WellRed*

      Tell her your “My name is Edmund, can you please remember that?” then stop responding to her when she calls you Edna.

      1. Not Edna*

        I tried that, and not responding doesn’t work. She doesn’t figure it out until someone tells her.

    3. BadWolf*

      “Are you saying Edmund or Edward? It’s Edmund.”

      “Ha, ha, I think I misheard you, thought you were calling me Edward instead of Edmund.”

      “I think you are saying Edward instead of Edmund? It can be tricky to get the difference, but it really is Edmund.”

    4. Ann O'Nemity*

      I would address it directly. “I’ve told you repeatedly that my name was Ed-MUND for the past 4+ months. We work together closely and I don’t want to continue correcting you. Can you commit to learning my name?” I’d try to say this without anger, but honestly I’d probably be kinda pissed at this point.

        1. Catleesi*

          Just do the same to her. “Thanks Karen.” “Actually my name is Katherine.” “Oh I thought this was our thing.”

          Don’t do this though for real.

          1. Michelle*

            I was thinking printing it out in big, block letters on a sheet of copy paper, drop in a photo of yourself with an arrow pointing from your name to the picture.

            Probably shouldn’t do this for real, either.

          2. Not Edna*

            You know, now that I think about it, she also has a less-common name with the same first syllable as a more-common name…I could totally do this and I MIGHT.

    5. Shamrockanon*

      I get that sometimes as well – my name is “Catherine” and I use a pretty common nickname, “Cathy.” I’ll often get “Christine” “Kate” “Kathleen” “Katie” – none of which are my name. Or people will spell my name with a “K”, which irritates me even more. I mean, it’s a minor thing, but just get my name right!

    6. Psyche*

      The passive aggressive side of me would want to call her that name. Then when she says “My name isn’t Edward” I could say “Neither is mine.” Of course that would be needlessly antagonistic.

      I would probably just be very direct. “Please stop calling me Edward. That is not my name. My name is EdMUND.”

      1. Not Edna*

        I’ve done the very direct route several times and she’s always been very appalled and apologetic. She doesn’t seem to remember things from day to day in general (she seems to remember most of my coworkers’ names and doesn’t call others by the wrong names though).

    7. irene adler*

      Does she have difficulty with anyone else’s name?
      If not, then I’d take this personally. C’mon, 4 months?
      I’d battle it – each and every time- with the suggestions already posted.

      1. Not Edna*

        She asked me last week for the name of a coworker she’d worked on a project with for about 1 month (and if you work with anyone on anything here you will see their full name daily and also talk to them daily, with 3-4 people around to correct you on names) (and they’ve corrected her on my name all the time). So yeah, she has difficulty with other names but seems to recognize when she doesn’t know them, vs mine, where she thinks she knows it and doesn’t. So I’ll try something more aggressive if this continues.

    8. Not A Manager*

      Wow. It sounds like there might be something… generally off about this lady? She might really be unable, for some reason, to remember and use your correct name.

      If I were you, I would try to reframe this as “she literally CANNOT remember my name.” Like, make up a disability in your own mind that she might have that would make this likely. (Do not share this with others, it’s not a real thing, it’s just to help you out.) If she had this made-up condition, how would you deal with it? You wouldn’t have to act like your name was Edna/Erwin/Earwig but you wouldn’t get snarky with her or snap at her either.

      I suggest that every time she calls you by the wrong name, just state your name before you respond. In a flat tone, not an angry one. “Ermine? Can you help me with this?” – “Edmund. Sure I can.” “I need Earnest to approve this for me.” – “Edmund. Let me take a look at it.”

      Good luck! But really, this lady sounds like she Can’t Even about a lot of stuff.

      1. Lilith*

        Wait. She’s getting up at 2:30am & she lives 45 minutes from work *and* she doesn’t know your name? Aww hell, there is something else going on here.

  171. AnonyMoosewithTea*

    Is anyone else unwilling to work more than 55 hours a week? I read so many posts here about 70+ hour work weeks, and I am trying to move into a field where the average weekly hours is ~55 (meaning some places require less and some more). 55 hours is pretty much my limit.

    When I was working even 60 hours, I had three car accidents in as many months, cried constantly, and felt stressed all the time. That was when I was young and physically healthy. My mom has some long-lasting physical problems due to the stress when she was working and I’m now worried that if I accept a job with more hours than I’m willing to work, I could end up with some of the same health problems.

    I just feel like a giant jerk-face slacker, though, for not being willing to give a job my all by working 60+ hours a week. Does anyone else not work that much? And if you do work that much, how do you ever have time to cook dinner or relax?

    1. ChimericalOne*

      40 hours was set as the standard workweek NOT because Henry Ford et al. were big softies who loved giving their employees time off but because 40 hours of good work is all that most of us have in us. Studies show that work quality declines drastically after that point (when done repeatedly — most of us can do it short-term in an emergency). And labor unions, in my opinion, are right to say that a balanced work day includes 8 hours of work, 8 hours of sleep, and 8 hours for your own life. We desperately need to break away from the culture of workaholism that suggests that having your own life is not important!

      1. AnonyMoosewithTea*

        Thanks for your comments – this makes me feel a little better and less like a weirdo for not wanting to work myself silly! (Still kinda feel like a weirdo but I’ll have to work on that one.) :P

        1. valentine*

          I keep seeing that, even as early as the ’30s, there was a movement for a four-hour workday.

          Is your employer giving you their all? What would that look like? Don’t do more than you can do safely and consistently while maintaining quality.

    2. WellRed*

      If I had to work more than 35 to the occassional 40 hours a week I’d be very unhappy. It sounds like you think 55 hours is normal? It’s really not, certain jobs/industries excepted.

      1. AnonyMoosewithTea*

        Oh man, I wish I could have a 35 hour work week. The best I ever had was 40 hours–and I worked during lunch so I wouldn’t have to stay an extra 15 or 30 minutes because I’d taken time off for work. That, however, was better than another gig I had where I was legally required to take a 30 minute break but they would not pay me for it or count it towards my 40 hr work week. I don’t think 55 is normal, but it is for the industry I want to get in to. :)

        1. JeanB in NC*

          Most 30 (and 60) minute lunches are off the clock, and don’t count towards your 40 hours, hence working 8-4:30 and only getting paid for 8 hours.

    3. Namast'ay in Bed*

      I don’t know what industry you’re in, but for the most part no, you are not crazy for not wanting to work 60 hours a week! Those are 12 hour days! 55 hour weeks are still 11 hours days! That’s all nuts! It is totally fine to want to work 40 hour weeks!

      Sorry for all the exclamation points, but I just feel so strongly about this. You are not a slacker for wanting to have a life outside of work, and you can absolutely have one. You definitely need to do your due diligence about office hours and off-hours expectations and work-life balance when you interview, but you are totally able to find companies that offer that.

      I used to give my all to my job, and it was absolutely draining and unhealthy. I thought I had to be passionate about my work in order to find fulfillment in it, but want to know what’s great? Not deriving my self worth from my job. Going to a job that I just put in my hours, go home, and have a life completely separate from my work. It’s out there, and I am sending you all the good vibes and encouragement that you can find your own.

      Oh, and take some time off in between if you can, you deserve to start a new job feeling refreshed!

      1. AnonyMoosewithTea*

        “You are not a slacker for wanting to have a life outside of work” Thank you for validating my feelings on the topic – the kind comments here have made me feel better and at least I’m not questioning my sanity anymore!!

        I’ve definitely been asking about “office culture” in my job interviews (one of them had a 55/60 hour work week and then “we all spend time with each other by eating dinner together at 8 pm!” – Sounded like my idea of hell. I’m glad I didn’t get a call-back.)

        I’m glad that you were able to pull back from work and not commit so many hours to it. It sounds like you have been able to find a happy balance between work and personal life and thank you for the encouragement so that I can do the same!

        1. Namast'ay in Bed*

          Offices where coworkers have dinner together might make for great tv, but it sounds like an absolute nightmare in reality!

          Fully honest question – do you actually want to work in this industry? Because it sounds like 60+ hour weeks are standard for the industry, and that (combined with low pay) is something you’ve said you don’t want. Getting a job that requires 40 hours a week and nothing more is totally possible, but it might not be possible to get a job in that industry that lets you do that.

          Without knowing the industry, is it possible to be involved with it outside of your profession? Like people who love video games can still play video games or develop their own as a hobby rather than work in the industry (which I’ve heard is a real rough one to work in), or if you love fashion you can still curate your own wardrobe or design your own clothes for fun rather than work at Vogue (because that is probably not a 40 hour week job) or if you love acting, participate in community theatre rather than throw yourself into the uncertainty of launching a fulltime acting career, etc. Just because you really enjoy an industry doesn’t mean you need to work in it.

          This could be all completely irrelevant to your actual situation, and I’m not intending to be discouraging or dissuade you from pursuing your dreams, just food for thought.

    4. Teapot Librarian*

      There was a period when we were having work done on my building, so I had to get to work at 6 in the morning, and I would stay until 6 pm or sometimes as late as 7. That’s when I learned that I have a hard stop at 13 hours in a day. But that was for a few months only and definitely would not have been sustainable indefinitely! And only was possible because I don’t have childcare responsibilities. I posted above that I’ve been working long days for the last few weeks–it’s been rough, and my dinners have been incredibly basic, and I need a butler to do my laundry for me. You are not a giant jerk-face slacker.

      1. AnonyMoosewithTea*

        I’m sorry to hear that it’s been rough for you recently – I hope that you are able to take a break, soon! The compounded problem is that the industry specialty I want to move into has low wages + high working hours (it is an insanely, insanely, insanely competitive and coveted field – there is always a line of people waiting to take one’s job), so if I worked more than 55 hours, I wouldn’t have the money to pay someone to do housework or to save money by cooking at home. I guess some people are willing to make crazy sacrifices like that to advance in the field, but if I never “make it” in that field because I’m not willing to work 60+ hours, there’s always other options.

        “You are not a giant jerk-face slacker.” – Thank you so much, I think I really needed to hear that! <3 <3

        1. Teapot Librarian*

          I have decided that I am NOT working this weekend. There is a volunteer thing that happens on Sundays that I have wanted to do for the last month and a half but haven’t been able to yet. This week is the week!

    5. London Calling*

      I work 40 hours a week and that’s, IMO, the maximum anyone can work and be effective and still have a life. Like your mother I have physical problems due to stress and if anyone expects me to kill myself for work then they are going to be disappointed. I work my hours, do my job, I am NOT contactable after hours/at weekends/on holiday.

      1. AnonyMoosewithTea*

        I’m sorry to hear about your health problems–that sucks, but I’m glad you’re taking back your life and setting limits. Mmm, that would be the dream! 40 hours and to not be expected to be on call. There’s no reason for it–business can wait!

        1. London Calling*

          If part of the job was being on call I’d turn it down. After beng made redundant 15 years ago I have one loyalty and that’s to me because sure as hell no-one else is going to look out for me. I’m a strictly work to live gal now – luckily retirement is in sight :)

    6. Slackenergy*

      I work 35 hours a week and it’s seriously all I can handle with my chronic illness and anxiety disorder. But even without those things? I wouldn’t want to work more. I love my job and my profession is a true vocation for me, but I want to live my life experiencing things outside of work, too.

      It may be a culture thing (I live outside the US in a left-leaning country) but I think people shouldn’t be treated as lazy, slackers or otherwise lacking in drive based on the number of hours they prefer to work per week. It’s about achieving balance in your life. For some people (like my sis) balance is working 9 hour days 6 days a week but finishing early to go to the gym everyday. For others (like me) balance is working a 9-5 Monday-Friday schedule that gives me time to manage my conditions, sleep and be involved in my community.

      1. AnonyMoosewithTea*

        It’s definitely a cultural aspect, probably dating back to the Puritans who came here in the beginning of the colonization process!

    7. ThatGirl*

      I would never take a job that regularly required more than 50 hours a week – 40 is ideal and where I intend to stay. I don’t think it’s healthy for jobs to require long hours, and it usually means either the culture is broken or they need to hire more people or both.

    8. TCO*

      I work an average of 40 hours a week, and that’s been the case for my entire ten-year career (at times I’ve had a second job, but that was my own choosing, not extra hours required by my “day job”). It’s very normal in my area of the nonprofit sector to only work about 40 hours, even in leadership roles like mine! Sometimes the top few people in an organization work more, but it’s not expected of mid- and low-level staff.

      I purposely won’t pursue roles that routinely require more than 40 hours, and that limitation has never held me back from great career opportunities. I just enjoy variety in my life and have too many out-of-work things (both hobbies and responsibilities) to want to give more than 40 hours to my job, even when it’s a job I like and am really committed to.

      Among my friends, the vast majority work 40ish hours per week, but that definitely varies by field.

    10. Slovenly Braid Cultist*

      You are not a bad person for wanting a life besides work. You are not a bad person for wanting to take care of yourself. You are living in a culture that wants you to believe these things, because if you believe it’s your moral duty to work 70 hours or more, well, then they don’t even have to pay you well, do they? And if your life is hard they can tell you it’s some failure of yours.

      You might have to work more, for a while or sometimes or even long term, if you’re dedicated to the outcomes of what you do, if you’re decided it’s worth it. The world right now is not set up in a healthy way. But it’s not a moral imperative, you aren’t a failure if you hate it, and there is nothing wrong if you don’t want to or can’t do it.

      I’m sorry things feel so rough. I hope you find something good for you.

    11. Fortitude Jones*

      I only work 40 hours a week in my position (proposal management) unless I’m running up against a deadline and still have holes in my draft that need to be filled (we usually don’t get resumes until last minute). Otherwise, on the rare occasion this happens, I work maybe 60 hours in a week, then life goes back to normal. If this was a weekly thing, I’d have to quit. I used to work the 60 hour work week pretty much all year round when I worked at Evil Law Firm, and I swore to myself once I got out, I would never put myself in another position like that again. Knock on wood, I haven’t been placed in that situation again, not even when I was a claims adjuster (I had the occasional 50+ hour week, but only during a catastrophe like a major hurricane or flood). There ARE jobs out there that don’t eat up your life – start looking.

    12. The Tin Man*

      I think working 55 hours a week is also nonsense. I work about 45 hours per week and that is plenty. Sometimes it’s more like 40. Never is it more like 50. I get that industries, etc are different but I would NEVER work a job that expects me to work minimum 50 hours per week unless it was fully work from home so I shave off commuting time.

  172. GlassBeagleAct*

    So, I missed an interview because I was too sick to travel. I sent a deeply apologetic email to my point of contact on the (weekend) day at the time I was supposed to travel. I’m fine with being eliminated from the job search (I don’t think I was a great candidate anyway), but nobody has responded to me in any way and I’m feeling pretty weird about it. Is there anything else I should have done?

    1. a Taurus I guess*

      Did you ask about the possibility of rescheduling? If not, they might just assume you were dropping out of the search. It’s still a little rude not to respond at all, but a lot of places are bad about communication with job candidates.

      I do think that telling them at the moment you were supposed to leave is a little abrupt, especially if they paid for the travel — I’d prefer to hear from the person the minute they realize they MIGHT be too sick to travel so we could make other arrangements. But of course not all sicknesses work that way and it’s not fair to expect that if you suddenly woke up with a fever of 103 or were stricken by food poisoning on the way to the airport or something.

      I’m glad it’s not a job you were too enthused about and I hope you’re feeling better now!

      1. GlassBeagleAct*

        I didn’t ask about rescheduling, as I felt pretty bad about the tardiness of my email. I was planning on powering through, but it just became very obvious that would be a bad idea. I woke up and could tell I was getting a little sick, but as the day went on I developed a fever and was feeling way worse than I thought I was going to.

        I’m definitely still not 100%, but better :)

  173. The Other Dawn*

    So, I’m almost at the end of my first week at the new job and I am SO mentally exhausted! I’ve had a headache everyday. I know that’s how it goes, though.

    I feel like I landed at a good place with a good team and a good boss. Both the department and the company itself have been very welcoming and don’t seem at all cliquey like my last company. Things are pretty relaxed as far as culture goes. It’s not a “butt in seat time” place, which I’m so happy about; I dealt with that two jobs ago and it was awful. They care that the work gets done and as long as people follow policies, don’t abuse privileges, etc. they trust you to get the done in whatever way needed. I can remote in if needed. There are core hours, but that’s not an unreasonable expectation.

    I’m definitely feeling overwhelmed with such a big team–I have nine people now instead of five. Just trying to get settled, figure out systems and policies, and get to know the team. I need to set up some one-on-ones to get the ball rolling, but there seemed to be no time this week.

    I’m also overwhelmed with thinking about how I’m going to delve into one large subject area that produces a mind-boggling amount of work, and then figure out how to whittle that down to a manageable level. I’m starting to read the policies and procedures, but it feels like this massive jumble in my head and don’t know how to unravel it. I find myself falling down a lot of rabbit holes. I’ve done this job before in other companies, so I know most of what I need to be looking at, it’s just learning how things are done *here* that’s overwhelming me. I think I need to breathe!

  174. ChimericalOne*

    I never realized how popular this Friday thread was. :-O I just came here to ask if it was unprofessional to eat an entire chocolate Easter bunny at one’s desk.

    Asking for a friend…

        1. Teapot Librarian*

          Eating the whole thing at your desk? Fine. Playing with it at your desk…maybe a little unprofessional. But really, only because a hollow bunny is more likely to break while playing with it, and then you might have to go crawling on the floor to pick up pieces of chocolate so you don’t waste any, and THAT is where the unprofessionalism comes into play.

          1. ChimericalOne*

            Ha, I’m mostly joking! I’m not terribly concerned. My office is pretty casual (tech, no dress code) and I have full cubicle walls, anyway (with no one to my right or left or directly behind me, plus my boss is gone today & most of my teammates are working from home). I am quietly breaking off pieces to nibble on and neither shoving it whole into my face nor crawling around on the floor for stray bits, so I think I’m good!

    3. BadWolf*

      Only if you give it a voice of despair while eating it “No, not my gumdrop buttons!”

      1. ChimericalOne*

        No, no — this is a stealth mission. Too quiet of an office for voices of despair! (I can, however, make sad faces for its fate as I nibble!)

      2. Drax*

        This made me laugh so hard my coworker came in to investigate. Good thing it’s lunch time hahaha

  175. FuzzFrogs*

    I’ve posted before about how our admin department recently took on all the responsibility for hiring, both internal and external, and–yeah, it continues to be a major clusterbomb of bullshit.

    Last week they skipped the two steps they’re supposed to take with me and informed my manager that I was laterally transferring, effective almost immediately–I came into work the next day to her pulling me aside and asking me why I wanted to leave, so that was a fun knot to untangle. Admin denied wrongdoing right up until I specified that I had receipts. (I’d previously discussed a different transfer with them which they’d confused with this one. That transfer actually never existed. Also, they claimed they talked to me on a day I didn’t work, and the start date for the transfer was a day that I had off for a vacation to another state…)

    The good news is that last week some promotion opportunities opened up, and I applied. The first step in our organization, after you pass minimum qualifications (in this case, having a certain degree), is an assessment. I came into work for a night shift to my manager going “So, you went to the assessment this morning? How did it go?” So, again, I got to have a fun conversation, and I did get to take the assessment this morning.

    My manager, as well as my more day-to-day supervisor, to be fair, have both been great about this. My manager has looped in upper management about my recurring issues. But I’m just…tired. Between this and a worker’s comp issue I’ve run out of fingers to count all the mistakes that have directly impacted me and my ability to do my job. I’m not in a great position to leave the organization, either. (Own a house, support local elderly parent, the only other place in town in my industry has rejected me few times already, retirement benefits need another few years to vest…) It’s just so exhausting, even though my job continues to be a pretty great one day to day.

  176. Batgirl*

    Vibrator-gate update: Thanks to everyone last week who gave advice about the co-worker who was keen beans on getting the boss a vibrator for some bewildering reason.
    I liked the advice to either have a ‘come to Jesus’ talk with her or to tip a wink to the boss. Problems with the former was that preemptively raising it seemed very much like highly unwanted advice – she seemed to withdraw from mentioning it around me after I shot it down twice.
    The problem with the latter was that it’s really hard to get hold of Boss without other people around. Awkward.

    I told myself to just be still and to be prepared for whenever an opportunity presented itself. It did find me.
    The co-worker in question raised it with me, by disparaging another co-worker who declined to be part of ‘the collection’.
    I feigned confusion and asked what collection, responding to her explanation with: “OMG I thought that was a JOKE.” (I actually was hoping).
    “Nobody would seriously buy that for their boss!” She tried to deflect but I carried on in the most serious terms saying I was shocked, I would react badly if it was me; it could be read as patronising, sexist, unprofessional and “I don’t want to lose you as a coworker”. She was looking sick by the time I was done but the next day she told me she is returning the vibrator. Phew.
    I also ended up tipping off my boss after this, but before co-worker made this decision just because soooooo many people were talking about it. Her reaction was flabbergasted to say the least.

  177. jobhunter2*

    question re negotiating salary when getting an offer

    i haven’t interviewed for this position yet (was invited to! yay!) but they said up front “the budget for this position is 55k.” i currently make 57.5k. *if* the interview and everything is great and i get an offer, would it be okay to say something like “i know the position is budgeted at 55k, but i’m wondering if there is any room for flexibility on that? i was hoping for something like 58k which would bring me up to my current salary.” should i mention my current salary, or should i mention the years of specific experience i’m bringing to the role? (which i am.) i’m not sure because i’m not looking for a huge bump. *and* i would accept the position at 55k, i just want to ask them about it. thank you!!

    1. a Taurus I guess*

      we use a process like this at my company — we disclose the budget for the position early on rather than ask for salary expectations to give people a chance to select out — and I would find that totally appropriate at the offer stage, worded exactly as you put it. it’s not good for employers to *ask* for current salary, but it’s relevant to disclose that you’d be taking a pay cut during the negotiations.

      sometimes the budget is the budget, but sometimes the budget has a little wiggle room, and sometimes you can use that to negotiate on non-monetary things, like vacation time.

      1. jobhunter2*

        thank you so much! that’s very helpful. i’m interviewing at a very large corporate firm.

    2. Kathenus*

      Since you would accept 55k if that was the only offer, I’d go to the interview and then ask about salary flexibility at the end when you’re able to ask some questions. By then they’ll have some assessment of you from the interview which might give you more leverage. Using your language from above, I’d summarize that you bring xx experience to the role, and ask if there’s flexibility for a salary in the range of 58k which about what you are currently making.

      If they hadn’t given you a budget for the position in advance, I’d wait to negotiate until the offer; but if it’s me, and they did give the 55k amount, I’d personally bring it up at the end of the interview. Good luck!

  178. eleanor rigby*

    This might get buried but does anyone have any experience working in a postgraduate role (particularly within the UK)? I have a job interview coming up and it relates to postgraduate teaching, learning, admissions, course assessment & exams for PhD students.

    Thanks in advance for any hints/tips/help!

    1. Grandma Mazur*

      I posted a reply yesterday but it looks like the internet swallowed it (grr).

      I’m not sure whether you mean (a) an admin position regarding PG issues or (b) a PG assistant post actually responsible for the teaching, etc, but I’ve done both so if you have any specific queries, I’d be happy to try to answer those.

      Otherwise, my advice for (a) would be to show awareness of the importance of discretion and confidentiality, as well as attention to detail (regarding, eg, exam results and special circumstances, mental health issues) and the need to be able to multitask/remain aware of multiple deadlines (not that different from most admin jobs really!). Maybe (if it’s a particularly self-aware or honest panel) a question about how to elicit information from academics who are notoriously bad with deadlines!

      For (b) the specific faculty might matter more – at least in the social sciences, arts and humanities, if I were on the interview panel I’d probably be expecting to hear about how you can deliver research-led teaching, what experience (if any) you have of teaching at the PG level and how previous peer observations have helped you improve your teaching, and whether you’ve developed any innovative forms of assessment.

      In my experience you also can’t go too far wrong using the STAR technique for giving your answers, even if the question wasn’t explicitly phrased as “tell me about a time when you…”

      Sorry if that’s all too generic – I’ll check in over the next couple of days to see if you’ve seen this and have any other questions!

  179. a Taurus I guess*

    My company is switching from adjusting salaries in the quarter of your start date/last promotion to an annual process where all adjustments take effect on April 1 (except promotions). We’re supposed to get prorated increases if we weren’t already on the April schedule — my last increase was Q4 2018, so in theory on April 1, 2019, I’ll get half of whatever increase I would have gotten on October 1, 2019.

    I definitely get why the company is doing this, but it seems… not great for me, personally? I’m sure it feels like I JUST got a salary increase (esp because I actually got the news about the increase in early November, backpaid to the start of Q4). Plus my increase came with a promotion to a role that wasn’t my sole focus until early December. My manager is happy with my performance, but I’ve basically spent the last few months just getting up to speed, and I figured I’d start really achieving stuff over the next six months. “Give me a bigger raise based on stuff I haven’t done yet” isn’t a great pitch.

    Anyone have experience with this switch or any advice? If the system goes as advertised I’ll be evaluated again in April 2020, but I can’t help but feel like somehow, I’m going to come out of this a bit worse off. Which … is life, I guess. It’s just a bummer.

    1. Ali G*

      Yeah I hear you. I started a job in late 2018 and I come to realize that COL adjustments are done in April to being with the new FY budget in July. Since I haven’t been here a year, I don’t qualify. So my only hope of any incremental raise in 2019 is an annual increase, which I am pretty sure is out of the question due to budget issues (I am on the Exec Team, so I know our financial situation), so it seems my first chance at even just a small COL increase is July 2020.
      It’s not personal, just sucks, right?

  180. Beth*

    I have a coworker who is LOUD. I managed to get him to stop with the radio (without headphones) and I’m pushing back on the news being streamed over his computer and playing out loud, but I’m stumped on the personal phone calls. I don’t know if I should just address these things one at a time, explain that he’s generally loud and needs to close his office door more often, or let it go. I’m not the only one bothered, but the other surrounding offices generally just thank me for saying something but aren’t willing to say anything to him directly.

    1. fposte*

      If he’s got an office door, just go ahead with “Mind if I close this?” whenever things get loud.

      1. fposte*

        If he’s on a call (could be business or personal), you can mouth that while closing the door.

      2. ThatGirl*

        I always do that with the conference room that’s behind me, when people fail to close the door while being loud or on a conference call.

  181. ala*

    Due to space constraints my boss’s office is located in another part of the building. It’s been a big strain for me, but I’ve dealt with it as best I could due to the fact that there just wasn’t an office with the rest of the department. Due to some position reshuffling, the large executive-type office next to the Department head’s current office is now open. It would make a lot of sense for the department head (who is my boss’s boss) to move to that office and my boss to move into his current office (she’s a VP, it’s the same size as the other VP in the department’s office so that’s appropriate, Department Head is a member of the c-suite so it’s fitting that he should have an executive office, etc). HOWEVER the open office used to belong to to an executive that left the company under less-than-great circumstances last year and who was Department Head’s former boss and good friend. Apparently it would be “weird” if he took that office because of that legacy. Department Head has offered the open office to my boss, but she also thinks it would be weird for her to take it, partially because of the former occupant but mostly because of the optics of her having a larger and nicer office than her boss. Meanwhile the office sits empty and I grow more frustrated because having my boss be closer would definitely solve some problems. Does anyone have any ideas of how to approach the subject with the Department Head, or even if I should? My boss is aware of my frustrations but I don’t think she’s willing to go to bat for this one.

    tl;dr how can I get the head of the department to switch to a nicer office so that I can finally work in proximity to my boss?

    1. SunshineOnMyShoulder*

      I don’t think you can “get” this to happen. You can, and should, continue to flag the challenges that the current arrangement is creating. Ultimately, though, office real estate is a political mine field, and you can’t force people above you to enter it.

      (We’re sharing cubes while other departments have empty offices – I feel you.)

  182. Elizabeth West*

    Blerrrrgghhh

    I applied for a job with a large multinational company and got an email today from a do-not-reply address asking me to complete my profile. There was a form that asked for information I already provided with my application, which went through the company’s website. I checked the email headers and SPF and DKIM checks for authenticity passed, but DMARC failed.

    The company has my info, the job is a little bit of a stretch but one I could do, and obviously the recruiters know how to find me if they need me. I logged into my job account and saw nothing that needs to be updated–application status is in progress. It set off my hink detector, not only for spam, but I don’t want a barrage of emails from anyone. If it’s fake, I have to admit it looks good.

    If it’s NOT a spoof/phishing email and the company actually sent it, would it be safe to ignore it? They don’t need my info twice. I mean, I’m right here. #CallMe

    1. irene adler*

      IS the HR email available on their website?
      If so, can you email the HR dept and send them the email and ask if it is authentic?
      Explain that you verified that your profile is complete, so it’s not clear what’s missing.
      I’ve seen the careers webpage of a few large companies with warnings indicating that they are aware of fraudulent emails being sent in the name of the HR dept. Anything like that on their webpage?

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Oh that’s a good idea. No, I didn’t see anything like that. It’s a big company, so it might be that they’ve had trouble with it. But I copied and checked the form, and it had information I’d put in. Maybe it was just an auto-reply.

        I’ll check, thanks!

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah. They sent another one that said “You haven’t completed the process; if you have, please disregard this message,” so I logged back into the website, but the application page said I’d already applied. I guess it’s a glitch.

        They probably won’t contact me for an interview anyway so I’m not going to worry about it. The job is in either Boston or London and I imagine they’ll hire someone who doesn’t have to move.

  183. Marrakesh*

    Accepted verbal offer — worried I’ve screwed myself?

    Hi all — I’ve been working with a recruiter for mid-level to senior administrative/project manager jobs in legal services. I received (via the recruiter) a “verbal offer” from a company today via email. The email to the recruiter gave a base salary, noted OT and bonus (no range mentioned), and said a written offer is coming. Recruiter put huge pressure for immediate response – it’s a good job and I’m unemployed so I said yes, pending written offer. Recruiter wrote back to company that I said yes to “our offer” — but I haven’t seen total comp, benefits, and they want to know my start date before even sending the offer letter. Felt a little weird about this, so went online and everything says NEVER accept without a written offer, or without details, and the email doesn’t even mention benefits! The company is a well-known global company and I can’t imagine there *aren’t* benefits, but the recruiter doesn’t seem to have negotiated base salary at all (which is lower than my previous position by about 3k) and benefits matter to total comp. There’s also nothing specific about title, person I’d report to, or anything. If there’s not much vacation, I’d move my start date later and go to Ireland for a week or something.

    I emailed the recruiter with my concerns but no reply — she was leaving the office early today and very rushed at the time of the offer and had just said ‘talk monday’. I should be excited, but I’m just scared now. How much should I be panicking? Am I totally overreacting?

    Any feedback appreciated! Asking google has left me *terrified*. thank you!!!

    1. Serious Pillowfight*

      I think a lot of the advice about not accepting a verbal offer is for people who are currently employed. The goal is to avoid assuming everything is in order and going ahead and giving notice at your current job. So I think you’re OK on that end because you said you don’t have a job right now. But yes, ideally you want ALL the info before you accept. BUT, worst case scenario here, what happens is you learn the terms aren’t to your liking and you reject the job, leaving you in the same place you are now.

    2. Psyche*

      I think you are fine. You gave a conditional yes and she misrepresented that to the company. On Monday, you can clarify that it is a conditional yes but you really need to see the benefits package. Nothing is in writing so you can always say no if it turns out to be awful.

    3. a Taurus I guess*

      Don’t panic! This is probably fine, and it sounds like the recruiter didn’t do the best job here.

      The start date might be a requirement for issuing the offer letter at all — it is at my company. The process is something like: verbal offer made (usually we just say “the salary is X and we have X benefits, I can send you some information about them”) –> negotiate salary or benefits –> verbal offer accepted –> figure out start date –> offer letter generated and sent.

      I would say that for next time, you should say something like, “This all sounds great, but I really need to talk about benefits and total comp before I accept” rather than just accepting right off the bat. If it turns out you want to negotiate something, you’ll probably have to say something like “I initially said yes because you were pressuring me to respond quickly and I’m excited about the role. I now realize I didn’t have all the information, and without [whatever], I am going to have to reconsider.”

      1. Marrakesh*

        Thank you! These responses are definitely helping me panic less. I’m relieved to hear that your company @a Taurus doesn’t issue the written offer until start date determined — that seems to be the case here. There will be a written offer, after I tell them the start date. I’m disappointed with the recruiter and I don’t think she handled this well, but I did reach out with my concerns and we’ll talk more about them on Monday. The offer didn’t include the title and that’s probably what I would want to negotiate (my to-be boss said she wanted title Y and I want title Y, but I interviewed for title X), so I’m more hopeful now that that might be on the table still. I also got a very warm and enthusiastic email from the to-be boss that is making me feel better that the overall decision isn’t disastrous, even if I mucked up some of the process!

  184. DKsan*

    I have a tricky situation, UK commenters might be more helpful.

    My current role is truly awful. I’ve had anxiety attacks on my commute home due to the incredibly abusive company owner, but I stuck through until I found a new role at a fantastic company that wants me to start as soon as possible.

    The sticking point is my notice period. I’m not too concerned about burning bridges. My contract states that during probation, the notice period is one week. The three months passed and I got no notice of it ending. My contract literally states that if nothing is mentioned, assume the contract has been extended for another three months, which is coming up soon. I went job searching on this one week premise.

    My line manager, when I gave notice today, saw this as a betrayal but also that I have passed probation and now it’s a month notice (but literally no one said anything verbally or in writing, so I couldn’t assume that, right?) and that the director won’t accept the notice.

    Frankly, I just want to be gone. Two people have left already and more will soon be away. I got a few extra days before I start my new role, but my line manager wanted me to stay an extra week . I just feel gross that I can’t escape even when I follow the rules.

    Legally, there’s nothing that would prevent me from working a week and skipping, right? I’ve reread this contract a million times by now.

    1. DKsan*

      Relevant paragraph:

      “The first three months of your employment will be a probationary period and your employment may be terminated by either party during this period at any time on one week’s notice. Your performance and suitability for continued employment will be monitored during this period. The Employer may, at its discretion, extend the probationary period for up to a further three months and if it shall fail to notify you in writing that you have successfully completed your probationary period, it will be treated as having been so extended.”

      1. ChimericalOne*

        Ah, just seeing this. So, you didn’t receive notice that they were either extending or terminating your probation period. Ergo, the contract says it’s automatically extended. They must’ve thought it was the opposite, that it automatically terminated. You are correct: you’re only on the hook for one week’s notice. If I were you, I’d highlight the relevant portion of the contract for them and let them know that you did not receive notice, ergo, the probation period did not end.

      2. Darren*

        Yeah you are totally in the clear for just the 1 week notice. Refer them to the relevant part of the contract and them failing to provide you notice that your probation had been completed thus triggering it to automatically extend.

        These contracts are pretty common throughout Europe as it’s really hard to let people go after probation and you can do rolling probations (I believe 2 renewals is the maximum) and since they so often want to keep people on probation the maximum amount of time they setup auto-renewal clauses like that in case they forget.

    2. ChimericalOne*

      What does the contract say the probation period is? I can’t tell from this post if the contract made it clear when your probation period was up or not?

    3. Batgirl*

      Contact ACAS and if you have a union lawyer, contact them. I mean, I think it’s pretty cut and dried from the wording of the contract but there’s no harm in reassuring yourself with free resources.

      ACAS are super helpful and when my company were pulling shennaningans during my notice period it was super helpful to just say ‘unfortunately that’s not the law according to ACAS, so you should probably check/ change that wording/notify people’. My union also got in touch to rap their knuckles and tell them I’d better not get poor references but that was a highly contentious situation where they went pretty far.

      My wording for your situation would probably be:
      “Unfortunately I was never notified about being taken off probabation, so I was job hunting on the information I was given”
      “Unfortunately my job now starts on x date and I’d like to help you out past my notice period but it’s impossible”
      “So I checked into this to make sure I wasn’t breaking the law and legally I am on probation until I am notified otherwise. Probably best to check your documentation/systems/that wording So this doesn’t happen again”

      1. Darren*

        The wording isn’t an accident as I mentioned above contracts like this are pretty common due to how hard it is to fire someone post probation. In this case they are seemingly trying the “Oh wait you passed that probation” to hang onto this person for a little longer and have their cake (still being easy to let someone go) and eat it (have you having to give a long notice) too.

      2. DKsan*

        My cousin’s husband’s brother is actually an employment lawyer and so he’s offered to take a look this weekend, but he says it seems pretty cut and dry.

  185. Blindsided*

    Today a hiring manager I had been interviewing with decided to call my current boss and tell her he was extending me an offer for a job at his company as a professional courtesy to her. They have never worked together, but my industry is somewhat small and they’ve met before at networking type events.

    She called me into her office and I was blindsided by a confrontation about why I was searching and what they could do to keep me before I even knew I had an offer (had yet to check my personal email). This conversation was followed by an out of the blue call from my grandboss who works remotely.

    I feel like this was completely out of bounds on the hiring manager’s part and I feel like my trust and confidentiality has been broken. But as a mid 20s professional I don’t know if this is something that’s to be expected.

    So is this normal/acceptable behavior in the hiring process and should the hiring manager’s actions make me rethink working at the new organization?

    1. Anonforthis*

      Wow, no, this is not normal. The hiring manager should at the very least have asked you first.

    2. a Taurus I guess*

      oh, no, I’m so sorry. this seems way out of bounds to me — and I work in a small and tight-knit industry! heck, I don’t even give current managers a tip about INTERNAL applicants without a heads up.

      everything about this seems bad:
      –extending an offer by email (every job offer I’ve received and every one I’ve extended has been by phone with an email to follow up — that way the person can ask questions on the call, we can figure out a timeline for their acceptance, etc)
      –telling your boss before they even knew if you’d seen the email (it would still be bad but this is very bad)
      –a “confrontation about why I was searching” — did you tell them you hadn’t even gotten the offer yet, and did they immediately apologize and back off??!

      unfortunately, you may be between a rock and a hard place here, but I am aghast at this and it definitely suggests that this manager — esp if they will be YOUR manager — does not have your best interests at heart.

      1. Blindsided*

        When I told my boss I hadn’t seen anything yet, she said to let her know when I did and not make any decisions without talking to her again. About 10 minutes after that was the call from her boss.

        I knew my boss would be upset if I found a new job, but I assumed this conversation would happen while I was giving my two weeks.

        I’m still very shaken about the whole situation but decided to tell all parties that I was taking the weekend to decide.

    3. Catsaber*

      Not normal to do it before discussing it with you. When I got my current job (which was a transfer at my large university), my boss extended the offer first, and then asked me if it was okay that he talk with my current manager so they could discuss the transition. However he said he would wait until I had informed my manager first. So while it’s normal for the managers to discuss transition details, it’s not normal for the hiring manager to do it without informing you first, and giving you a chance to talk to your current boss.

      I would think about this action in light of everything else you know about the organization and the job. If you really need a job right now, then I’d probably take it but keep my eyes open for other flags. At your age, it wouldn’t be terrible to leave the job after a shortish stay if it turns out to be a bad company. But this could just be a big goof on the part of an otherwise decent manager.

    4. CatCat*

      No, this is not normal and it was a terrible, boundary crossing thing for the hiring manager to have done. And this lapse in judgment might give me pause on accepting an offer. Were there any other red flags when you had your interviews?

    5. Triplestep*

      BIG read flag about that hiring manager! We don’t have a lot of information, but I don’t think I’d take that job. Why does he think he owes more to your current boss than to you as his future employee? Which one of you will he have a relationship with going forward?

      Are you set on leaving this current job? Can you see yourself staying there after all this weirdness? If so, I might use this situation to try to leverage some improvements to your current role, because I don’t think I’d accept the offer from new guy. I might even consider telling him when you decline the offer that he put you in a terrible position and it gave you concerns about him. Wow.

    6. Kathenus*

      This happened to me once, and it was the first in what ended up being a long-line of red flags of a toxic boss, the new job imploded within a couple of years. Not at all saying that it has to happen here, but as CatCat says evaluate everything else about the experience to see if there are any other yellow or red flags that you might have missed. And put this experience along with everything else about the new position in evaluating the offer.

    7. The New Wanderer*

      Your trust and confidentially absolutely were broken. You hadn’t accepted the offer, much less seen it. And there’s no way the hiring manager could know that you would 100% take the offer (even if you had agreed to a verbal offer). That the HM would contact your current manager over an offer you hadn’t even accepted is overstepping to a massive degree. It could just be exceptionally poor judgment but it seems almost deliberate, like he’s tanking your current job so you’ll have no choice but to accept. No good hiring manager acts this way.

      Your current manager’s reaction is a bit much and I’m sure it was unpleasant to deal with, but at least they want to keep you rather than boot you immediately. If your current job is tenable, I would decline the offer and keep looking (since you might be on borrowed time in the current job if you’re now labeled a flight risk).

  186. Curious*

    I’ve always been curious about the professionalism of an incident that occurred my freshman year of college. I had taken a dance class to satisfy the PE requirements and the professor was a cantankerous older gentleman who wasn’t in the best of health. One day his foot cracked (he was wearing sandals) and bled everywhere. He wrapped his foot up in paper towels and continued the class, but at one point his foot was literally in a puddle of blood. We finished the class and I didn’t really think about it until the next class where he was snapping at all of us because apparently a student complained about it. I remember one particular comment about how the prissy younger generation can’t stand the sight of blood and that he couldn’t control whether his foot bled or not.
    So that leads me to my question:
    Was it unprofessional of him to continue the class after taking care of his foot?
    Was it simply the unprofessionalism of using paper towels on the foot rather than proper bandages and continuing the class?
    Should he have “soldiered on” with the class or excused the class when he realized he needed something more than the typical bandaid?
    Was it wrong for a student to complain over something he had no control over?
    Is the ideal to persevere in spite of injury not umm good anymore?

    1. Anonforthis*

      Frankly, if he was bleeding that much, he probably should have stopped the class and sought medical attention. Also, in the U.S. at least, there are OSHA protocols around workplace injuries and cleaning up blood and other bodily fluids, so I’m a bit worried about whoever had to clean that up. Yikes.

      1. fposte*

        Merely being at work doesn’t mean the situation fell under the OSHA reporting requirements or bloodborne pathogens standard. That’s specific to certain kinds of workers (did you know, for instance, the bloodborne pathogens standard doesn’t apply to agriculture or construction? Fun times).

        I realize the guy was not somebody people liked, but I’ve got some sympathy for him here. TP/paper towel staunch is SOP for a small bleeding wound–think razor nicks. That should work fine for a bit of cracked skin, but the poor dude then sees his blood pooling around his foot, which is bigtime Not Right, and doesn’t know what else to do but keep on teaching. He then died, I’m guessing not in an unrelated skydiving accident but for health reasons related to this, within a couple of months of this incident. I hope somebody in the class at least offered to get him some help.

        1. Sam sepiol*

          Fposte was that sentence re skydiving death meant to be there?! I am so very confused.

          1. Sam sepiol*

            I’ve read it again and understand now. Reading comprehension fail. I thought you were saying he did die in a skydiving accident and couldn’t understand how you would know :)

            1. valentine*

              Performing with pain and soldiering on is gross.

              He could control the bleeding. He chose not to. He then chose to chastise everyone because a student rightfully complained. He was meant to lead by example. He refused.

    2. Catsaber*

      I don’t think it’s professional to continue a class while your foot is in a puddle of blood. It’s a health/safety risk. Health services should have been called, and he should have ended the class. A minor cut that might need a bandaid? I’d continue the class. But if it was as serious as it sounds, then he needed serious medical help.

      I don’t think it was wrong for the student to complain, it sounds like the situation could have been handled a lot better. I don’t see the advantage of continuing a class when your foot is bleeding out.

    3. Bunny Girl*

      Wow I think that’s incredibly unprofessional of your teacher. He should have stopped class and taken care of his foot. He didn’t have to send everyone home; just take the appropriate time to see to his foot and get everything cleaned up. Blood is a bio-hazard. It needs to be cleaned up quickly and appropriately. He might not have had control over it bleeding or not, but he did have control over him bleeding all over the floor and then left it there. The student had every right to complain and your teacher had no right to punish the rest of the class for someone complaining about how he handled it. As I said, blood is a bio-hazard; this was a safety issue, not someone not being able to handle the sight of blood.

      What a massive jerk.

    4. Psyche*

      The problem is that he did not actually take care of his foot. If he was “literally in a puddle of blood” then it is a health hazard. This is not something he had no control over. Since these are college students, presumable he could have told them what they needed to do and left to properly bandage his foot. Or he could dismiss them and properly bandage his foot. It is completely right for a student to complain if he is bleeding to that extent.

    5. fposte*

      I’m not really seeing this as a professionalism call myself–this is likely a first experience for everybody involved, and the concerns in your post seem to be mostly about appearances. A choice can be suboptimal without being unprofessional, and I’m not clear on the nature of the student’s complaint.

      I think it can be okay to keep teaching after you’re bleeding. Some people may be squeamish, and I would excuse them if so.

      I think it can be okay to make do with available materials rather than stop a class.

      I think it can be okay to be mistaken about how well those available materials will suffice.

      I think it is okay for a student to make a complaint if they have a concern about the above. It is also okay for the administration to say “Sorry you were unhappy but we don’t see a problem.”

      If what he’s doing was in contravention of safety protocols for the space, that’s not okay, but I couldn’t say from here whether it was or not.

      It is *not* okay for the professor to bitch about it to the class. Students get to express concerns, and it is highly inappropriate for him to behave in a way that shames them for it.

      1. Marrakesh*

        Absolutely not professional at all.
        When I was a college prof that would not have been ok at all; certainly against best practices and rules — no idea if illegal, but definitely not something the administration would be ok with. I’ve kept teaching with a cut finger, but blood on surfaces and pooling? That’s a real health, safety, and legal risk — how is HIV, for example, not an active and valid concern?? My suspicion is that the administration reamed him out and it went into his file — things like this are absolute lawsuit fodder — and that’s why he was bitching about it so much afterwards. Keeping going through the pain is absolutely still a thing, but blood tends to trump that.

      2. WellRed*

        I’m with you fposte. Also, this is a dancer. Dancers and other athletes have different ideas of when they should stop vs pushing through blood or pain.

    6. Dragoning*

      Uh, blood is a well-known bio-hazard. What he did was gross and unsanitary, and also likely would’ve complained if I, as a customer, was expected to pay for service that involved being exposed to that much blood.

    7. Curious*

      Thanks everyone! This happened like 14 years ago, and it always kind of bugged me, but I was never able to put in words why. Also that professor passed away before semester ended so whenever I talked with my peers about it they either commiserated over his passing or they grouched bc his records were in such a mess the teacher they brought in for the last couple weeks couldn’t grade us so they passed everyone without a letter grade and that screwed up a lot of people’s GPAs.

      1. fposte*

        Sounds like the guy’s poor health may have contributed to poor decision-making in the moment, too; if he really managed a puddle of blood from just a cracked food, he was probably on blood thinners already.

    8. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      I can answer this one! I worked in fitness handling emergency response. If this had happened to one of our instructors:

      They would need to stop the class while properly tending to their injury. A second person with first aid certification would be summoned to help them correctly bandage it, and also to determine if it was necessary to call 911. A supervisor would need to be immediately notified to make sure that on-the-job-injury protocols were filed. The area where blood was on the floor would need to be evacuated: anyone who came in contact with blood would need to go to the showers to clean it off, then they may be sent to the emergency room for antibacterial/antiviral medication depending on local protocols. The blood would need to be cleaned up by an employee wearing personal protective equipment (gloves), soaking it up and placing the towels in a biohazard disposal bag, then washing the floor with a 1:10 bleach solution.

      An incident report would need to be written regarding the incident and any students exposed to bloodborne pathogens.. A worker’s comp report would need to be filed, and the instructor would need to go be evaluated by a worker’s comp doctor before being allowed to return to work. Finally, the attendance would need to be noted and a makeup or refund for the class would need to be issued according to the most generous interpretation of the facility’s rules.

  187. Anonforthis*

    Just venting here. It’s been a really long week and I feel completely drained at this point. I really like my job and the company, but our team is really understaffed and all of us are constantly fire-fighting. I’ve talked to my manager about it, and she’s understanding, but her hands are tied in terms of getting us more resources. We work in HR, so we are high visibility and people all over the company are constantly reaching out to us for various things; I literally cannot leave my desk for a bio break without coming back to multiple missed calls, IMs, etc. Not to mention the people who just stop by my desk and ask “do you have a minute?” (Narrator: It’s never just a minute.)

    I’ve tried things like turning off my IM, letting calls go to voice mail if I can and checking them later, telling people I can’t meet right now and can we schedule a time, just checking emails periodically throughout the day, etc. All the time management tricks that you learn over the years. But I just feel as though I’m constantly responding to whoever is screaming the loudest, and there doesn’t seem to be any end in sight. Here’s hoping I can relax a bit over the weekend before starting the merry-go-round again on Monday.

  188. Loopy*

    Surprise, just found out I’m due to lose my job due to complicated reasons not my fault. I have a company that posted positions I want to apply for at level II and IV. I am a III (but have only been for 10 mos.) and still feel it makes more sense to shoot for the IV than apply down for the II.

    I know someone much more experienced than me is also going to apply but I feel like it still might not shoot myself in the foot- worst that happens is they offer me the II instead of IV? Another questions is, if we both apply this weekend does it really matter if I apply Friday instead of Sunday? Someone encouraged it to be higher in the queue but that seems like it couldn’t make a huge difference assuming inevitably they would see both on Monday? If more experienced person applies and looks amazing… they won’t just stop reading applications, right???

    1. a Taurus I guess*

      Yes, aim high rather than low — if they like the look of you but don’t think you have the experience they want, they can always move you into the lower tier.

      My advice is always to apply as early as possible. The ultimate goal of hiring is not to find the best person in the entire universe for a role; it’s to identify candidates who can do the job and hire one of them. Preferably quickly. Especially if it’s an urgent need. So you want to make sure you’re in the pool as early as possible in case the first 20 candidates are all amazing. But I’d say Friday afternoon/evening and Sunday are probably all going to be seen Monday morning, so it’s probably fine.

      Good luck!

      1. Anax*

        Only caveat I would say is – if there’s a different hiring manager or HR contact listed, especially if it’s a particularly large company, they might be hiring for a similar position on completely different teams. Under those circumstances, tbh, I would apply to BOTH positions; I was just doing a rather extensive job hunt, and often different teams for the same employer weren’t discussing candidates with each other at all.

        1. Darren*

          Yeah that is pretty typical, if you are lucky you might get people aware of the multiple job openings on the interviewing team but as a company grows in size it’s very possible that the people doing the hiring for one area might be entirely unrelated to that in another.

    2. fposte*

      Sorry about the news, Loopy. I’m with you–I don’t think Friday vs. Sunday makes a difference. This isn’t waiting for weeks–you’re just taking a couple of days to get things as polished as possible, and that should be fine.

  189. AwkwardTurtle*

    How do I support my partner through their job search process? We’re both planning to move to the west coast and I’ve been more successful in terms of applying and getting interviews. They’ve haven’t gotten any interviews yet and have not applied to as many jobs so I think that is causing some anxiety and stress if I were to get a job first and we were to become long distance. Also, they are trying to get back into a niche biology field but haven’t worked in said field for a few years so their references may be a bit dated. I’m good at editing cover letters and resumes and finding career advice (thanks to AAM!) but not that great (and can sound impatient) with providing them emotional support. I’ve asked them to commit to applying to at least 3 jobs per week and to find a therapist for the anxiety and dwelling on negative thoughts. Any advice would be appreciated!

    1. Marion Q*

      I have anxiety and just found a job after graduating last year. The commitment to apply and to find therapist is a good starting point. I know I tend to lose motivation so having a commitment would help greatly, since it gives a certain urgency.

      My advice would be to pay attention to their cues. Ask them if they want to talk about it. If they don’t want to, then don’t force them. Their triggers are maybe different, but for me being forced to talk about it really spiked my anxiety.

      Good luck!

  190. The Other CC*

    This is really more of a vent/desire to commiserate with someone…my new job involves taking all the phone calls that come in and consequently my interactions with rude entitled people have gone up tenfold (my prior job had zero contact with the general public ). I am always polite and professional and kick things up to my manager as necessary, but UGH. It’s so draining and a huge mood killer when someone gets huffy with me because they don’t like that we billed them for the 10 phone calls and emails from last month, or because my boss isn’t available for a meeting for a few weeks. 9/10 of my interactions with people are neutral or positive so rationally the random dude who is a jerk shouldn’t bother me so much. Should I expect to get used to it eventually? Any tips to not let it continue to bother me?

    1. ContemporaryIssued*

      Oh, I’ve worked customer service. The main thing you have to keep in mind is 99.9% it’s not your fault, it’s somebody else’s, or sometimes it’s nobody’s problem but the client’s and they want to take it out on whoever will listen. They are just venting and since you answer the phone, unfortunately you have to be the one to hear it. So while you stay polite, try to remain calm and understanding, you really have to process some of those calls as “in from one ear, out the other” immediately. If the ranting gets personal or name-calling, you can tell the person to call again when they feel like they can not result to name-calling.

      I would also air out the bad mood by talking to somebody about it, but not to dwell on it, just to air it out. I once had a customer who responded to my simple, clarifying question by yelling, which made me lock up in panic, unable to really help him and the whole call deteorirated. I felt like I had done a bad job but then I briefly talked it over with a colleague and they were like, “wow, what an a-hole, he should learn that kind of behavior gets him nowhere” and that left me at more of an ease.

      Can you take breaks after a bad call and have somebody else cover the phones? That kind of post-bad call processing can help you. Deep breaths, a cup of coffee (or whatever beverage), brief small talk with a colleague about it, then back to the phones.

  191. grayber*

    Thanks to a lot of suggestions from this site (thanks community! thanks Alison!) I got a new job about six weeks ago. It’s been going fine until recently, and I’m wondering if anyone else sees these as big time red flags or if I’m just getting used to how a new office works?
    – Our CEO just hired their significant other in the office, and they’re getting to have input on all design projects. They do not have a design background, as far as I’m aware.
    – A half hour meeting with my head of marketing turned into a multi hour affair where they read my star chart and asked some pretty invasive questions (e.x. “how’s your relationship with your mother?”)
    – The company was bought out in December before I started, but when my manager mentioned it in a meeting yesterday none of the more senior employees (people who have been here for years and built the company!) were blindsided. My manager breezed on like it was nothing to worry about, but I’m still concerned.

    Have I made a giant mistake hiring on? If it helps put this into context, this is a semi-startup company that’s only been around for about 4-5 years.

    2. ChimericalOne*

      Ohhh, wowww. Sorry, but it sounds like you’re in a pretty bad place. If I were you, I’d start job-hunting now, before it goes from “weird” to “utterly intolerable.”

    3. Autumnheart*

      Maybe keep your resume active and do a low-key search, in case a brilliant opportunity comes up. You can always ramp it up if things become intolerable. If the work environment doesn’t get too bad and you can ride out a year or so, so that you’re past the dreaded “job-hopper” period, cool. But if it does get really bad, then you won’t have to do all that work on top of trying to navigate your crazy job.

      1. grayber*

        That’s a good suggestion, thank you! After a year I think the team I’m part of will have done the biggest projects that I’d feel bad leaving them in the lurch for too, so that helps alleviate some of my guilt.

        1. valentine*

          Leave ASAP. No need for guilt.

          This sounds like a hodgepodge of the letters here. SO, astrology, and surprise umbrella? All signs point to no.

  192. Butch Cassidy*

    What do you do when you’re chastised for someone else’s mistake?

    I work at a small family-owned retail store in my town, where I’m one of half a dozen employees. One of my coworkers has long had a tendency to make mistakes, including charging customers incorrectly (meaning one of us has to catch the discrepancy and alter it later). Yesterday our shifts overlapped and we were tasked by the owner with doing an inventory count of purses; I was explicitly told to write down the counts on the inventory list, while my coworker was told to check each purse and call out the SKUs and counts for me. We went through everything and then my coworker clocked out for the day.

    Once I turned in the list to the owner and manager, they came out a few minutes later because of some troubling discrepancies. The owner proceeded to show me where two similar but different purses had been hung on the same peg, and each time she showed me this she lectured me on checking every tag and on the importance of getting an accurate count so she doesn’t mess up her orders.

    The problem is… I wasn’t the one checking the tags. I had my nose in the paperwork, as she had requested, and I trusted my coworker to give me accurate information while she called out the numbers as – again – the owner had requested. I was being lectured for my coworker’s mistakes. I didn’t really protest at the time, because it felt like there wasn’t a way to defend myself without throwing her under the bus, but it bothered me a lot that I seemed to be getting all the blame. It was extra frustrating because, again, this is someone with a history of making some potentially costly mistakes while I’ve generally received a lot of praise from the manager for being good at the job.

    Anyone have experience with this? Is there any way for me to defend myself without being an ass?

    1. ChimericalOne*

      Go back to her today and say calmly, “Hey, I wanted to talk to you about something that happened yesterday that really concerned me… I didn’t know what to say at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that I wasn’t the one checking the purse tags yesterday — Karen was checking those and giving me the SKUs and I was just the one writing them down. Maybe this isn’t a big deal, but I just wanted to let you know that I do take these details really seriously, so I was a little upset that you might think I had made a careless mistake like that. Sorry for not saying anything in the moment! I was just kind of taken aback.”

    2. CatCat*

      I don’t like the concept of “throwing someone under the bus” here. It’s a mistake that needs to be corrected and not repeated. You’re doing yourself, your coworker, and your manager a disservice by not pointing out where the mistake occurred.

      You could say, “Yes, I see what happened was definitely a problem. Coworker was checking the tags while I wrote down the information for the inventory list. In the future, would you prefer we use a different process? For example, would you rather that I check tags and Coworker makes the list?”

      1. valentine*

        CatCat’s script is good. I would stop before “In the future” because you each need to do both parts well. I might add “just as you instructed”, though the owner may get defensive and derail herself.

        Throwing her under the bus would be if you both did something but you only said she did it, as though she acted alone, or if you knew she made mistakes but said nothing until the owner pointed it out.

        each time she showed me this
        Were there several instances of this? It sounds punitive. Showing you one or two and saying there are more would suffice.

    3. Catleesi*

      Could you have said something like “That makes sense, I’ll let Coworker know for next time.” ?

    4. Lilysparrow*

      Of course you can go back to her. But you can also say something in the moment.

      I find that when the boss is agitated about a mistake or problem, it’s helpful to “side” with her in validating the importance of the issue. That prevents you looking like you’re being defensive or petulant.

      So in the moment it would go something like, “Oh, no! What a mess.”

      And either way, you can say, “I was just writing down the numbers Coworker called out, I had no idea they weren’t right. We probably need some kind of cross-check process. Do you want me to work that out with Co-worker, or is there a specific procedure you’d like us to use?”

      Now you’re a problem-solver who understands the business needs, not an ass at all.

  193. Serious Pillowfight*

    Vent/advice seeking, then a legit question at the end.

    Not sure if anyone remembers, but I (mid-30s/F) learned last year that a coworker (early 40s/M) with the same exact job (but I do a more difficult part of it much more often) is making slightly more than I am. We were trying to share an opening we both wanted that would change our shifts from nights to days, and we ended up discussing our current salaries with one another. The shared transfer fell through because of his personal schedule and because, after I worked the new job for a couple days, I was blindsided by a pay cut in the form of losing a shift differential I, and my bosses, didn’t know existed. Opened my paycheck and saw I had lost 40 cents an hour for the daytime shifts.

    My daytime boss tried to get the differential corrected, but jerk department head (DH), who I liked fine before this, said, “Nope, too bad, etc.” at least from what I was told secondhand. Noped the hell out of that and stayed where I was, only helping one day a week (and still being paid less for that one day). I’ve been here almost 15 years but I’m apparently not worth keeping happy for a budget adjustment of a few hundred dollars a year. Boss then pointed out male co-worker made more and I should at least be where he is (which I will always appreciate), and DH told him male co-worker “has different experience” than I do. Which is crap for a bunch of reasons I won’t get into here, but suffice it to say DH apparently has almost no idea what I’ve done in my career and unfairly discounts what he thinks I did.

    Anyway. DH just got promoted to CEO!! My boss and the few trusted people who know about my being screwed over seem to have completely forgotten about it. Or, more likely, they don’t care because it didn’t happen to them. I didn’t expect people to storm his office on my behalf, but I feel completely overlooked and now see no hope of ever being paid fairly. Before anyone suggests leaving, I tried. When all this went down last year, I worked some connections and interviewed for a job at another firm in the area, only to find out I was supposedly the top choice but no one was hired. Fast-forward to now, and I’m told they reposted the job (without reaching out to me) and hired some 22-year-old straight out of college. (Figures.) I’m still at my original job working one day and four nights a week, and I also have a couple extra part-time jobs now that are holding me over nicely. One may turn into something more.

    I do like this job and the people (except DH-turned-CEO, obviously, because WTF), but I’m still sour about this and I’m selectively trying for a better full-time job. Another connection told me about an opening in her department at her higher ed workplace with a closing date of late January. I applied through the proper channels, used her name (with her permission), wrote what I thought was a killer cover letter using advice from this site, and…nothing. I asked her a few weeks ago what was going on and she said they were either starting to bring people in or would be soon. I don’t want to be pushy or annoying, so I haven’t asked about it since. But I’m bummed. I really expected to hear from them given my resume and connection with a current employee. I realize I’m probably falling into the same ego trap a lot of people fall into–the “But I’m perfect for the job!!!!” trap–even though, as Alison always reminds us, we can’t know that from the outside. (But…damn…not even a phone interview???)

    So aside from just wanting to vent and seek any commiseration/advice/etc., I also want to ask this: How do departmental budgets WORK? Is there any situation in which being told, “No, we won’t correct this salary issue for you for a few hundred dollars a year,” is actually legit and DOESN’T mean they DGAF? I’m not in a lucrative field, but…a few hundred dollars a YEAR???

    1. a Taurus I guess*

      I don’t have any helpful advice, but that’s the worst! I am so sorry!

      Also, DH = Dear Husband in other corners of the internet and while scanning this I initially thought it was a very different kind of advice problem than it is.

    2. Antilles*

      Departmental budgets are usually set at the start of the year – you plan out your fixed expenses, projected one-off expenses like computer upgrades, and then leave a bit of unplanned fluff to account for random events. So I guess it could (could!) be possible that they just can’t handle readjusting the budget.
      That said, I don’t think that’s what’s happening here:
      1.) If it is really just a few hundred bucks over a year, it’s pretty unlikely he couldn’t fit it in. That typically would fall under the ‘fluff’ for random events. Or at least cover part of the discrepancy if not all of it.
      2.) Department budgets are typically adjusted at the start of the year, if not monthly/quarterly/semi-annually. So even if they really were stretched so tight they legitimately couldn’t handle it then, they could have found a way to make up for it afterwards if they really wanted to – here’s a “bonus” to backfill the pay you were missing, here’s a bigger-than-normal raise to bring you up to par, something like that.
      3.) The ‘different experience’ attitude doesn’t match with a legitimate reason. If he really did care but just couldn’t make the numbers work, he’d have responded to you in a regretful attitude rather than jumping to justifying the difference. “Pillowfight, I really appreciate your contributions here and I really wish we could afford to pay you more, but the unfortunate reality is it’s a tough marketplace for us right now, clients are pushing us on fees, etc etc etc.”

      1. Serious Pillowfight*

        Yes, that’s what bothered me the most. He could have at least been nice about it, but instead I got hit with a (secondhand) wall of defensiveness.

        1. valentine*

          I don’t know that no one else cares, but what do you want them to do and do they know you want them to do that? It strikes me no one said, “Well, let’s get this rolling for next quarter/year”. But the discrepancy and where you’re not on the same page is CEO doesn’t see a case to answer. It’s not an error: He’s sexist and deliberately paying you less, including being thrilled that you got hit with a surprise paycut when you worked days. You need to leave. You can try to get the others to advocate for matching your pay to 40M’s, but CEO is unlikely to do so and everyone but you sucks here. They know he’s sexist and unnecessarily cruel, yet they gave him the reins of the whole shebang. You are not among friends.

          Your job search sounds too narrow. Get more irons in different fires. Maybe you’ll need to change industries or roles.

          If the day work is optional, don’t do it. Simply don’t accept working for less. If you can even push back without endangering your job, go for it.

  194. xarcady*

    Has anyone come across any odd pairings of job responsibilities lately?

    I’m an editor. I edit. I can do a bit of graphic design and writing as well. I have degrees in English and years of experience working with words and ideas. I like to think editing is at least a somewhat skilled job.

    But in the past couple of weeks, I’ve come across two job postings for editor/admin assistant jobs. And this puzzles me. The companies clearly want someone with a good, solid knowledge of English, who can edit and proofread and move things through a production line. And that same person needs to answer the phones, fix the copier, sign for packages, and order office supplies.

    One, it just seems like an odd combination of responsibilities. Two, I find it better to edit in a fairly quiet space with few interruptions. The thought of editing while greeting visitors, answering phones, and running off copies makes me cringe–it would be so easy to come back to a job and start up on the wrong paragraph or sentence and miss something that should have been caught. It seems like a recipe for disaster. And on the one hand, they want an experienced editor and on the other, an admin assistant who can run an office, which just seems like an odd combination of skills to find in one person. And there were two listings like this in the space of a week.

    And then there was the posting for a writer/editor/photographer/hand model.

    1. Temperance*

      I’ve seen a lot of jobs like that, unfortunately. Basically, they want an overqualified admin and not an actual editor.

    2. Psyche*

      I think what that means is that they don’t particularly value either job. They think both are easy enough that you can easily edit while answering phones.

      1. elemenohp*

        Yep, exactly. They don’t value or understand the difference between those two roles, and how they involve two very different skillsets.

    3. Mimmy*

      I’ve never seen it in job postings, but in practice, I see it from time to time. Where I work currently, some of our staff have what I think are odd duty combinations. For example, one part-time employee is a gym instructor as well as vocational rehab counseling. This is not a public school (where many coaches are also teachers); it a vocational rehab training center for adults.

    4. MissDisplaced*

      When I see the job combo of Editor/Admin what they basically want is an Admin/Secretary for some executive who will proofread and fix or write things because the executive can’t or won’t. RUN!
      Unless you want to be making their Powerpoints for them all day!

    5. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      Some of this I think is sexing up job titles. I’m on a job search and I started searching the term “Program Coordinator,” which is the most accurate description of my job title. I found it used for everything between “garbage collector” and “Dean of a Graduate Program.” Thus rendering my search useless.

      1. WellRed*

        Agreed. It’s like looking for a marketing manager when the job is really handing oit beer samples at happy hour.

    6. Bex*

      Mostly I’ve seen this at nonprofits or small companies where they’re trying to take two part time positions and combine them into one FTE, usually because they don’t have the budget to make both positions, or don’t have a workload to justify either as a full time position. Some combos are less unusual, like HR/office admin, but I’ve also seen some very odd ones that require REALLY different skill sets.

    7. Mazzy*

      I don’t take this as a negative, actually. Most office got mid of Admin staff since the phone rarely rings anymore and no one uses paper files, so office supply orders have decreased every year. So now the leftover admin work is more a remnant of the past than an actual job, so they try to lump it into other jobs.

  195. AliceBD*

    I want to thank Alison for the How to Get a Job ebook and especially the interview questions part! Most of the questions I wrote down to ask at today’s in-person interview came from the list in the book and the interviewer kept saying “That’s a good question.” I’ve alerted my references because he says he wants to make me an offer early next week, so my fingers are crossed so hard!!!

    (I’ve been unemployed for exactly a month today after a lay-off, so this would ease my mind plus the job sounds tailor-made for me and my background.)

  196. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

    I finally sat down with my bosses in October and laid out (essentially) that I was feeling underpaid and underutilized. To my fortune, my meeting happened to coincide with the owner + bosses planning a new position. The owner had already pegged me as the best candidate for it. I got an official meeting about the new position in January.

    I got a little bit of a raise with the promise of a teeny bit more six months after; I’m still underpaid but it’s less painful to budget with now. I got some guidance on some general ideas of what they hope the new position will do, but I’m essentially creating it myself. Additionally, my replacement in my old position doesn’t get to actually start training in that position until June, so I’m in a weird floating position of covering my old job while also starting on things the new job is expected to do, which doesn’t really reduce the stress. :p

    I have mixed feelings about everything, but am okay enough right now to not be actively job searching any more (still got feelers out though and casually checking now and again). Work is weird and liminal, but still familiar.

    People who have created their own job positions: Did you ever have to create a position for something that wasn’t actually anything you’ve done before? I’m not building a position that I would have initiated personally, but the work that they did tell me they wanted done is something I feel I can succeed at even if I haven’t ever done it before. Nor has anybody else at this company.

    1. Nessun*

      I’ve been in that boat twice now – for the second time right now, in fact. I’ve made it a priority to meet with all the new stakeholders in my new role, provide candid feedback about what I don’t have capacity for due to juggling both positions, and asked a whole slew of questions/taken a whole slew of notes. The great thing about building a role is that you can have a huge say in what success will look like, because you’ll be writing the manuals and processes as you go. There is a ton of communication required, but I’ve found it worthwhile and very rewarding. And it looks great on a resume the next time an opportunity presents itself.

  197. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    Soo….distant family member quit his job of several months after being on the phone with his mom every day at noon talking about how terrible the job was (since his significant other isn’t a good person to talk to because she would stress him out more, which is a whole ‘nother can of worms). Gave the 2 weeks notice, has no job lined up, but wanted/needed to get out of there for his emotional sanity. The job paid a nice amount but cost him more. He also had a cathartic realization he needs therapy but with no job=no benefits=no cost-effective way to get therapy (in his eyes). Anybody go through this and have good/uplifting success stories (quitting a job then finding one’s passion?) I need something cheerful ;/

    1. Bunny Girl*

      Yes! I few years ago I walked out of a job with no notice. It was such a nasty toxic environment. I cried every single day and I’m one of those people that never cries. It sucked. And I wasn’t the only one. I had a friend at the company who also was a twice a day crier and also had a tiny drinking problem because of that job. People were rage quitting left and right. I had tried to go to HR about something but it made things even worse so at the end of one week, I typed up a note, slapped it on HR’s desk and just left and never came back. Two weeks later I was offered my dream job on a very part time, temporary basis and then about 3-4 weeks later I got offered a job that was double the salary, that I absolutely loved, and I got to work two just amazing jobs.

      I wish your relative lots of luck. I know it sucks.

      1. valentine*

        Don’t take this on. He shouldn’t have been on the phone daily to anyone whilst at work, much less to complain about the job, and probably not even a therapist is the right audience for daily venting. Let him sort himself out.

  198. LadyMountaineer*

    I am dealing with two things at work that are driving me bananacrackers and looking for some guidance:
    1) There’s a manager that I work closely with in another department that has a pretty low-functioning engineering team. To compensate for this she polices everyone’s tone. She claims she values a “calm, professional demeanor” but one is required to do this when interfacing with her staff whilst her staff yells at them. This goes as far as breaking up conversations to “give you time to calm down” when you turn red. I am a very pale person and I turn red easily. Her staff gets very fired up and pushes heavily for my team to take on their responsibilities. So, by doing this she essentially tries to force me to take on their work so that I can move my project schedules ahead. I have been dragging my male supervisor in as a referee — she’s been complaining to others that I “set back women 10 years.” I am trying to just ignore it. Is there a better way?

    2) I moved from the main IT department to a smaller department doing data engineering for a research grant. The same Tone Police manager doesn’t get along with my current supervisor. Tone Police once bought her team a Foosball table to use during downtime and to generally encourage camaraderie. She sent her two most problematic (read: bad judgement) employees to pick up the table and bring it into the office from where she found it on Craigslist. Well, they sure did. They paraded it through the hospital, past our CEO and General Counsel into the IT Department building and set it up. My current boss gently ribbed the CIO about playing Foosball. I think she challenged him to a match but I am not sure I can’t remember because it was not a big deal to me at all. Our CIO lost his mind – the Foosball table was out immediately and Tone Police was reprimanded despite trying to do something nice for my supervisor. Since then she has taken upon herself to make my supervisor’s job more difficult (randomly removing access in the name of “caring about HIPAA and patient security” and otherwise being horrible) and Tone Police will “never forgive” my supervisor for her transgression. Should I talk to my boss about this? I don’t think she can go back in time to change a silly comment about a Foosball table and I am concerned that it will likely leave her upset and feeling helpless. What would you do?

    Thanks for reading! Overall I love the hospital. It is full of wonderful, scrappy people trying to do the best that they can for everyone and I am proud to be a part of it all.

    1. LadyMountaineer*

      Whew–this makes no sense re-reading it. Today is my last day with the male manager. I start with the female manager on Monday but I have been 50/50 between them this past month to transition. I still have to work with Tone Police and her ineffective team in my new role. My boss currently drags her male boss with her also as a buffer for Tone Police. Tone Police claims that we are both setting back women 50 years and deserve each other.

      1. fposte*

        TP is an ass, but why are people putting up with being dragged in as a buffer here? If you have to deal with her more than, say, twice a year this is silly. What happens if you don’t drag a boss in and just deal with her yourself?

    2. fposte*

      I got lost in the labyrinth of #2, which, combined with the fact that nobody in there is you or somebody you supervise, makes me say that you should absolutely stay out of it. Presumably your supervisor is just as capable as you are of dealing with Tone Police if it needs to happen, so let your supervisor deal.

      In general, the more you can disengage from Tone Police, the better. Can you email her and her staff instead of putting your face up for scrutiny? You can also say “I’m fine; please don’t judge the color of people’s faces” if you want to name the problem. Or you can say “Sure, whatever you like–we can handle this over email” and go back to work. I’m not clear what your supervisor’s take on this situation is, but if you have his blessing to say no without him, go ahead and say no without him. Don’t send her to your supervisor if she chafes, but be clearly matter-of-fact if she says she’s going to. “Sure, that’s fine.”

      Basically, your goal here is to make her a smaller deal in your life by caring less about her and her simmering foosball resentments. She’s a barky little Chihuahua of a person whose yips have lost their meaning.

      1. LadyMountaineer*

        Thank you for your responses! I would read a column of yours if you wrote one.

        If I email TP she immediately sends a meeting request. I am going to try the “since we tried meeting and that didn’t work for your team let’s handle this via email” route. I really like the depersonalized response here.

        Here’s the kicker – with any male authority figure present TP will stop policing and you can actually have a conversation and work gets done no matter how passionate the people in the room are. Her employees know to straighten up and won’t try to push back. Without a male it is a showdown. My (former) male supervisor will support me and go only if I ask him which I try not to until I’m worn down. He’s fully aware of the issue and thinks TP is being coached out so it is only a matter of time (hopefully) until she loses her power.

        1. valentine*

          You are too involved in TP’s shenanigans and the gossip. No commiserating or sisterhood with your female supervisor around the allegations of setting women back. Don’t pile on TP, even in private (because there’s no such thing at or about work). Don’t listen if people want to regale you with her latest nonsense. Don’t talk about her behind her back. Don’t say anything you wouldn’t say to her face. Cultivate a professional remove from which to reset all these relationships.

          I love kicking things upstairs, but that’s not what you’re doing. This sounds like a schoolyard fight, what with all the dragging. I am picturing everyone gathered on a manufacturing plant floor, next to machinery, ready for fisticuffs.

          It sounds like your female supervisor 86ed the foosball table, which TP claimed was something nice she did for the male supervisor, which is a lie. Who cares? So she has more points she’s taking from your supervisor/team? It’s a derailment.

          TP is sexist and only behaves around men. If you were still under your male supervisor, I would’ve said to use him against her, only earlier and more often. If your supervisor is on your side, no dragging is necessary. You need x; TP says no. TP says you need to submit to yelling and do her team’s work; you say no. She says meeting; you say no. You don’t have to go ten rounds with TP before asking for help. Unless you think you can solve things in one more step, kick it up to your supervisor and get on with your life. Either your supervisor will handle it or she’ll see that someone handles TP, but you’ll be getting stuff done instead of being caught in TP’s (possibly racist) loop. (I’m not aware of a nonkyricist, much less a positive, context for tone policing.)

    3. LCL*

      She is a bully and a jerk. Tone policing has become a go to insult in recent years. She has latched onto a modern buzz phrase and is using it to justify her actions. Tone policing can be a great thing IF AND WHEN it goes both ways. Telling you and your team to calm down while they yell at you? What she is really saying by her actions and words is me and my staff are going to abuse you, and you are going to shut up and take it. And if you push back she throws ‘you’re hurting women’s careers’ at you. Another classic bully tactic-if you don’t do what I say you are ruining everything for everybody.

      You can’t fix the low functioning on her team. You can only change how you react to her. When you or anyone meet with her, continue to bring in a supervisor. Whenever the yelling starts, ask the yeller once to not yell. If yelling continues, walk away and say I will talk to you when you stop yelling.

      Asking your manager to clarify when and how TP can assign work to your group would help a lot. From your update, I see a power vacuum that TP is filling to get things done. Who reports to who and who has authority? In any case, don’t try to outlast the yeller by being tougher. I did that with the yeller on my team, it was a mistake.

      1. LadyMountaineer*

        YES! Thank you. These are classic bullying moves. The reality is that I try really hard to manage the relationship and when I can’t manage it I bring in my supervisor (whomever that may be.)

        I have been trying to outlast the yellers. It is a mistake for sure.

  199. AlligatorSkyy*

    Hey all.

    Is 2 sick days in a year okay? I took a sick day in January cause I had a sickness bug; last night I had the same symptoms and took a sick day as I feel awful.

    I’ve been at my job for almost a year now and haven’t had anything bad said about me. I’m waiting to hear if my contract will be extended again next month, but unsurprisingly my mother is trying to tell me that 2 sick days looks bad and that it’ll go against me. Saying that, this is the same woman who refused to let me stay home from school when I was sick and once sent 15 year old me to school with the flu.

    1. ThatGirl*

      God I hope so. We get five a year and one of my coworkers has already used 3. (I mean, she’s not on a contract or anything, but your mom is full of it.)
      Don’t feel bad – it’s far better to stay home and not make anyone else sick, plus give yourself time to recover.

      1. AlligatorSkyy*

        Thanks! I’ve felt awful all day. Technically I could’ve gone into work, but I would’ve felt miserable all day. I spoke to my manager and she said it was better for me to stay home, and not to worry.

        I’ve been in bed all day, something my mother despises. Planning on doing the same tomorrow – Too bad if she doesn’t like it! I don’t even know how many sick days a year I get.. I should probably check!

    2. fposte*

      Alligator, my love, you have the answer in the question, and when I saw it was you I was pretty sure I knew the answer before I even read the post :-). Your mother is not somebody to be listened to about this. Even in the U.S., two days in a year are fine. Two days in three months are fine; you’re ahead of many of my co-workers in what’s been a very viral winter. This isn’t a problem.

      1. Rey*

        True dat! Two days is totally normal, and you don’t own it to anyone to be at maximum productivity. You are not a cog in a capitalist machine, you are a human being. If this is something that your mom frequently feeds anxiety to you about, try to decrease telling her about it. You’re an adult, and you don’t have to report to your mom when you stay home sick from work (especially if she is going to use it to make you feel bad).

        1. AlligatorSkyy*

          It’s times like this that I curse staying at home. If I’m late to work (very rare) or have a sick day, she knows. She tried to guilt trip me into going into work and was berating me for staying home. I showed her a message from my manager, telling me to stay home since I felt ill. She backed down after that!

          1. irene adler*

            Two sick days in a year is fine.
            AND, let me add, most considerate given you could have brought the bug to work and ‘shared’ with all. You get points here, for being considerate (even if it wasn’t something contagious).

            Please don’t heed your Mom’s attitude on this. It’s not helpful to you at all. You are being conscientious here. NO worries!

      2. AlligatorSkyy*

        Haha yeah I had a feeling it was gonna be okay. I have anxiety issues so that combined with my mother’s comments made me a little panicky.. But at the same time I was sure it was fine.

        I usually have a strong immune system and I usually only get sick once a year. (Annoyingly, around my birthday in April; every year since I was 1, my body shuts down and I get sick.) I’m kinda nervous, especially since my birthday is coming up in just over 2 weeks.. I don’t wanna get sick again. Fingers crossed everything will be okay though!

          1. valentine*

            Either stop telling her everything or start lying. Just pretend it’s a good thing you already had the day off? If you already told her you get x days off, pretend this is a bonus. Don’t show her proof. Do not let her know anything about work, like where it is or any contact information. Next time she starts, belt out “Sixteen Tons” and remember where you left off, so you can pick right back up every single time she does.

            Move as soon as you can. Roommates? Couch surfing? Freedom awaits.

        2. Sam sepiol*

          I had a month off sick in autumn. And last winter 2 months. (Mental illnesses suck.)

          But to your point, it’s really, really ok. I’m also in the uk fwiw.

    3. LQ*

      …Yes. Very much so yes. 2 days is fine.

      Even my absurdly won’t take a sick day boss has taken 2 this winter so far because it has been a brutal winter and everyone got sick.

      If it was summer and it was Fridays and you’d been talking about a concert you wanted to go to Thursday night and you didn’t seem sick at all….It would still be totally fine, it’s 2 days. Only the absurd 5 days a year boss from earlier would have any issue with this. Totally fine!

    5. LGC*

      I was about to say your mom gives terrible advice, and that was before I read your username. “Unsurprisingly” is right and probably an understatement.

      To put this in perspective: my state – I’m in the US, albeit in a somewhat progressive state – allows employees a MINIMUM of five days off sick per year. Paid. Regardless of whether you’re full time or . And again, this is in the US.

      A day in January and a day in March is NOTHING at a respectful employer. Even if you look at it like two days in two months, it’s not that bad (and it’s winter in the northern hemisphere, people get sick in the winter).

    6. Darren*

      I get 10 sick days a year (which rollover if unused, but if you take more than 10 it impacts your bonus), and I tend to average using between 8 and 12 a year and I’ve always gotten consistently high reviews and promotions. You should be fine with 2 a year.

  200. LisT*

    I’m looking for advice on how to explain a termination that wasn’t really a termination without coming across as bitter or a red flag to potential employers.
    I was working in a field-based job for 2 years. Everything was great, good performance reviews, the nature of the work is that there is no office and I would only meet with my boss about twice a year. HR was located at corporate headquarters halfway across the country. I put in notice of my maternity leave a couple months in advance and filed all the forms with HR, everything was set. Shortly before I was due to go out I found out I was going to have to move during my maternity leave and I wouldn’t be able to return to my existing position. But I could transfer to an open position doing the same job in the area where I was moving to, so I asked about that process. 2 days later I was fired.
    My boss called me and told me I was under investigation. Then he called me back and said I was cleared but the company decided to let me go because there was a clause in my contract that if a client was unhappy with me I could be let go. I checked my contract, that clause doesn’t exist. He said it was a corporate decision and I need to contact HR. HR wouldn’t return any of my calls and they sent me a form letter that was written as if I resigned. 3 weeks later I finally got a response where they did confirm I was terminated but that it was an at-will state and they didn’t have to give a reason why.
    I collected unemployment, and luckily I had health insurance through my husband. But I lost about $10k in short-term disability and PTO that I was saving to use during my maternity leave. And then a company recruiter started contacting me about the position I had inquired about transferring to!
    Obviously I would never return to work for such a shady company. I had my baby, moved, and found a new job which is wonderful. But I’m looking at picking up some contract work that the experience from this job is directly relevant to. How do I explain this situation to potential employers? I don’t trust my old boss to be a reference and quite honestly we rarely interacted, and I don’t know what HR might say about my termination. I don’t want to get into the details of an explanation because it seems like so much drama, but I can’t gloss over my most recent two years of relevant work history either. Suggestions?

    1. Autumnheart*

      IANAL, but this reads to me like they made up a reason to fire you so that they wouldn’t have to cover your maternity leave.

      1. Kathenus*

        I agree. Not sure how long ago this all was, and whether or not you could still file a suit against the former employer. But if you still could, it might be worth a small investment in a meeting with a lawyer, and possibly them drafting a letter to your old employer stating that they violated xx/yy labor or discrimination laws, which caused you to lose out on $10,000 in benefits for an illegal termination. And try to get the money (or possibly a settlement somewhere between $0 and $10,000).

        Or, if you can’t or don’t want to do this, the lawyer could mediate getting a positive reference or acceptable explanation of your situation. I think you might have a case if you chose to pursue it.

    2. Friday*

      INAL either but if I were you, I’d talk to one. They may be able to facilitate a reference from the company. Or facilitate a juicy lawsuit wherein you get lots of money. :) I’m sorry this happened to you and wish you all the best!

    3. Parenthetically*

      Also not a llama, but holy crap, the 100% fired you so they didn’t have to give you your mat leave. Really consider talking to a lawyer about it.

      1. LisT*

        Yes that is absolutely what I believe they did. I don’t think they would have done it if I was returning to the same position but because I was transferring to the new one they saw an opportunity to save money. Maybe they were nervous that I wasn’t really going to come back. Who knows. I did get an employment attorney they did draft a letter asking for a settlement but the company refused to settle and I was faced with the decision of moving forward to actually filing suit. I’m guessing the company was banking on the fact that they knew I was about to give birth and moved to another state and didn’t have time for a lawsuit. They were right. Luckily I had Aflac, I had a healthy baby, I moved, and I moved on. ….but how do I explain this to new jobs???

        1. chi chan*

          You moved so that is an explanation. Whether you say you were let go and decided to move or you wanted to move and the new position they had for you there fell through. Try to get someone to call HR and try to collect a reference. It may be they only confirm your employment dates and say nothing otherwise.

  201. The Female D.B. Cooper*

    I’m a regular here, but I gotta go anon for this…how do you handle a stalker? I work in public education and I’m well known through my discipline. I have a pretty unique last name and I am (closely) related to a famous inventor and CEO of a tech company. I often get emails from people asking if I’m related to this person asking for an introduction for their product/job/etc. I delete these. (My work email is public due to to my job).
    However, one person has been very industrious in tracking me down. This person managed to get my cell number (I don’t know how) and has been calling repeatedly. I took one call and said I couldn’t help and to stop calling me. Since I work in a public role, this person has come to my job looking to meet with me. I always have the receptionist take a message, but yesterday, he complained to my supervisor that I was “ignoring him.” I explained the situation to my supervisor who told me I didn’t need to meet with him, but that they couldn’t ban him from the building since it is a public building.
    Maybe I’m overreacting, but what should I do?

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      He sure can be banned from a “public building,” if he’s stalking and harassing you. Tell your supervisor that you have already told this guy to bug off, and now you fear for your safety and you want security to bar him from the building. If your supervisor still balks, then look up your employee handbook and/or sets of policies for how to escalate issues when you feel unsafe.

      There is no reason why you and your receptionist have to put up with this guy now that he’s been told “no” more than one time.

      1. The Female D.B. Cooper*

        Thank you. I was afraid I was overreacting, but this guy really has me on edge. I will meet with my supervisor on Monday and see what can be done.

        1. valentine*

          Presumably your employer closes the building at night, which blocks public access. Libraries ban patrons all the time. There is no legal obligation to grant a stalker access (except child custody and visitation). Call the police nonemergency and ask for advice. Maybe an officer can talk some sense into your supervisor. They can see if he owns a gun or has been recently fired/dumped/a loser in a custody case/bereaved or has other major stressors. I wish someone had told the stalker you’re not ignoring him; you simply don’t owe him your attention.

          If he’s leaving voicemail, set the voicemail to text so you’ll have transcripts. If your phone bill doesn’t have stats, see if you can get them or compile them yourself. Note the patterns and escalation. In case he can GPS it, leave the phone at home. Get a new phone/number for your life, shared with no one, and a Google or other number that you give out and can burn. If possible, get several, so you can find the leak. Document the timeline of events.

    2. Kathenus*

      Block him on your phone. Document the conversation with your supervisor that you don’t need to meet with him, and work with your management/HR to get an official memo sent to appropriate staff (like receptionists) explaining who this person is, and that they are not to engage them if they call/visit or take messages. Figure out and agree to language for that – D.B. is not available and will not be given your messages. Put all these conversations into emails so that you have a written record of what your supervisor agrees to. Then if this person escalates in any way hopefully your supervisor will be willing to consider banning.

    3. irene adler*

      You might also contact local police (non-emergency line). Outline the situation and ask for their advice.
      Gavin de Becker “The Gift of Fear” – worth a read.
      Stalkers want any kind of interaction with you/reaction from you. So you need to have others run interference for you-in every way possible. They can escalate if they get even a “go away!” directly from you. Makes them think they are successful with their campaign to get to you.

    4. Quandong*

      I’m very sorry you’re in this situation, and I don’t think you are overreacting.

      My suggestion is to search on this site for stalking at work. I recall at least one post with many excellent suggestions for what to do, including specific resources and ways to convey the seriousness of the stalking to one’s employer.

    5. Tabby Baltimore*

      You might want to consider reading this letter to AAM and about the steps Alison suggested the letter writer take to escape a stalker (located here: https://www.askamanager.org/2018/06/how-do-i-handle-changing-my-name-and-job-because-of-a-stalker.html). The comments section had a lot of information on steps individuals who are being stalked can take to prevent a stalker from coming into one’s workspaces, but the comments section is quite extensive, and covers a lot more than just how to deflect the stalker from your work site. The letter writer worked at a university (also a public building of sorts), so a situation somewhat similar to yours, so you might find some specific things you and your supervisor can do to keep him away from you.

  202. Toxic waste*

    I am in a toxic job, so I don’t know what is what anymore. I think my coworkers don’t like me and are talking s*** about me to other people, including new hires. (I overheard one coworker talking about me to the new woman, but then they walked away when I walked by.) The new hires seem nice to me at first, but then stop talking to me or look away when I walk by. It’s really hard to not take it personally. Is there a way to find out what is going on? Is there a way to stop this?

    1. Deb Morgan*

      If you’re patient and helpful with the new hires, they may put two and two together and realize your coworkers are the jerks after all. In the meantime, ramp up your job search because a toxic culture is hard to tolerate for long. Good luck!

    2. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      I worked somewhere this was going on!

      Eventually one of the new hires spilled the beans and was like, “You do know Cersei is constantly mocking you behind your back and saying nasty things about you?” She also told Cersei to stop it and be nice.

  203. Autumnheart*

    I have kind of the opposite problem as a poster above, who got a 9-page resume filled with overly granular items instead of “Completed TPS reports”. I have 15 years in my current position, and another 8 years before that (most of which I’m not including, because nobody cares what I did in 2003), but my job is one where I basically do the same thing every week, with few to no opportunities for stand-out accomplishments. I’m a designer in retail e-commerce, so the work I do is designing the weekly offers. Obviously, it’s valuable work (this is how we make money, after all) but it’s not like I can build a portfolio filled with a thousand iterations of “Save $10 on this item”.

    So I’m an awesome employee because I keep the trains running on time, no matter how many curve-balls come my way, and this job is also excellent for skills that occur outside Photoshop, like strategy, brand consistency, internal data organization, and meeting multiple, possibly conflicting, business requirements from multiple stakeholders. What my job isn’t good for, though, is making me stand out as a designer, and in providing me with resume fodder beyond “Did my job really well for 52 weeks in a row!”

    How do people with jobs like this format their resumes so that their accomplishments look like accomplishments, and not just like “I did my job, hire me!”? Especially if you’ve been at the same position for many years, and therefore it wouldn’t necessarily be a benefit to include jobs from the Stone Age?

    1. elemenohp*

      Do you feel like you have the bandwidth to take on passion projects outside of work? I’ve heard that advice from multiple designers since, as you note, it can be tricky to grow creatively working in-house.

      Are there opportunities to take on other design challenges in your company? For example, getting involved with designing for other channels like email marketing or display advertising? Pitching a new format for deals (like landing pages) or other engagement tools (like quizzes)? Proposing some kind of rebranding project?

      1. Autumnheart*

        I’m not talking about taking on outside projects, but on describing work experience that focuses on repeating responsibilities in such a way that it makes work accomplishments more clear.

        1. valentine*

          Do you have stats like 50,000 customers used the $10 off deal, a y% increase from last quarter? Or you met 100% of the tight deadlines from stakeholders?

    2. Rhymes with Mitochondria*

      Surely in the time you’ve been doing this there have been changes and updates in the branding, strategy and/or computer systems you use, you can talk about your role in implementing those. Your portfolio could include some from each iteration, noting the time frames used and highlighting your contributions to updating. Did you develop templates? Did you improve/expand your skills? Did you cross train other employees to fill in when you were out?

      1. Autumnheart*

        My employer is on the order of Amazon and Wal-mart. The site just really isn’t managed that way–there are no “templates”, the re-branding effort was a multi-million-dollar effort spearheaded by an outside agency and spread across multiple departments, and *I* don’t do ANY one thing. I manage my piece of a piece of the site. If the site were a puzzle, I’m in charge of one of the pieces of the bottom left corner. You can’t have a completed puzzle without my piece, but I certainly can’t lay claim to “owning” any part of the experience.

        That’s the point. This isn’t like a WordPress site, where I design a theme and manage the content and have control over everything. I design specific assets that get used in specific spots on specific pages. I do not design entire pages or entire experiences. There are other designers who do that, and yes, that work does lend itself much more easily to portfolio fodder. But MY role doesn’t.

        That’s why I want to know how other people, who have jobs where the *tasks* tend to repeat, but the JOB is in managing those tasks well, break out their accomplishments on a resume.

        I’ve been in the field since the ’90s, so just assume I know that freelancing is a thing, and how to document iterations of a design. That is not what I’m asking.

    3. Darren*

      Why is this “like strategy, brand consistency, internal data organization, and meeting multiple, possibly conflicting, business requirements from multiple stakeholders” not the focus of your resume? Those are exactly what you should be focusing on.

      These are what differentiate the junior designer (who can execute something with clear requirements) from the senior designer (who can push back on stakeholders to ensure that the results are consistent with the brand, handling multiple conflicting sets of requirements and turn them into a coherent product).

      You want to show you can drive the design, not just deliver it.

      Note this is the same for any role (whether it’s design, software development, office management, etc).

      1. Autumnheart*

        Because that’s not the problem I need to solve. I already know how to do that shit. The part I’m struggling with is the part I’m asking about.

  204. Pickle Lily*

    I’m after some advice on how to word an email to a potential new employer. Admittedly a pretty boring question compared to some!

    For context, I’ve been speaking with this potential employer since November(ish). Initial contact was made via a recruiter and I had a phone conversation with the hiring manager. They were looking for somebody at my current level and I was looking to step up to the level above so it didn’t go anywhere. Fast forward to about January and he contacted me directly to say they had a role opening up at this higher level, would I be interested? I said yes and we’ve had two meetings / interviews since then. We realised in the most recent interview that they didn’t have an up to date copy of my resume so they asked if I could send one over (I’ve not actually formally applied for this role yet).

    Anyway, I have also applied for promotion with my current employer and have been unofficially told by my manager that I’ve been successful (yay!), although I’ve not had it in writing or had any salary discussions yet. The formal notification needs to come via HR for contractual reasons. The new job title won’t technically kick in until 1st April, but I will be doing goal setting with my manager for the new role on Monday.

    So do I use my old or new job title? And if yes to using the new title, how should I word my email to potential new employer that I’ve been promoted?

    Or should I wait until Monday evening after I’ve had chance to speak to my current manager?

    Thanks in advance for any insights. I guess it’s a good problem to have!

    1. Kathenus*

      I think you use your old title, that’s what you are at now and even if everything goes through as your manager says it will not take effect until April 1. I see no reason to mention this to the potential new employer at all at this point. The only place I see it coming in at all, possibly, is if you get the raise/promotion and therefore would stay at old job unless the new offer is at a higher salary. But for now, just proceed with both employers independently. You’re right, good problem to have, best of luck.

  205. rinkydink*

    Hi all – I’m working at a small company in Washington state. I’m planning to start trying for kids in the next year or so. My company really likes me, and I have reviews coming up, so I have an opportunity to raise maternity-related benefits as something important to keep me around. So, what are things I should think about asking for? Washington will have state-paid maternity leave starting next year (woohoo!), and I have a flexible schedule. Are their other things I should be thinking about (even “creative”/uncommon ones)?

    1. Catsaber*

      I would get really solid with your bosses about how flexible your schedule is, if you haven’t already. Babies need a shit-ton of doctors appointments in the first year, even if they are nothing more than routine well-baby check ups. My 7 month old is having some eye problems, and because they need to dilate her eyes, I have to take off a half-day for each appointment. So you will be having a LOT of appointments (during pregnancy, too), and it’s good to know how your boss wants to handle that.

      Also keep in mind child care center scheduling. If you are placing your kids in some kind of child care, a lot of them consider the prime commuter hours (like 6:30-8:30 and 3:30-5:30) to be “after hours” and will charge extra. So would you like to be able to leave early to pick up the kids, or would you like a raise to help with child care costs? Things to think about.

      You can’t totally plan for it, obviously, but if you can be really concrete about what is important to you and how you like that to work out on a daily/weekly basis, then you can talk that over with your bosses. Good luck!

    2. Rey*

      Does your company currently offer good insurance benefits related to pregnancy? (And, if you need it, what are their fertility coverage options?) If you are planning to pump (no judgement either way), do they already have accommodations that you are happy with? Or will you need some adjustments for that–room with a fridge, a more comfortable chair, for people who aren’t pumping to stop using the room? Do you travel for work regularly? If so, what accommodations do you need to make children and travel possible? (Change from 10x per year to only 3x per year, childcare subsidy when traveling, ensure that travel is only 2 days (or your limit) at a time or isn’t farther away then (your limit).

  206. A Fly On The Wall*

    How do I support my partner while we’re both going through the grueling job application and search process? We’re both trying to get to the west coast. They’re trying to get back into a niche biology field that they haven’t been in for the past few years, so their work experience and references may be a bit outdated or unrelated. I may have a pending job offer soon while they haven’t had a single interview so that is making them more stressed and anxious about a possible and even longer distance relationship than what we already have. I help them with editing resumes and cover letters and looking up career advice. But I’m not so great (and can sound impatient) at giving emotional support. Honestly, it’s a bit hard for me to be empathetic when I hear excuses from them about not being able to apply to jobs due to their anxiety, crazy work hours, or them being more keen about planning social events. I’ve asked them to commit to applying to at least 3 jobs per week and to seek therapy for the anxiety and negative rumination. I get that applying to jobs is no fun, but what else can I do for them?

    1. Autumnheart*

      If anything, I think you should be doing much less. No helping them edit resumes and cover letters, no looking up career advice. Hard limit on job search talk. No “I want you to commit to applying to 3 jobs per week”. This is all putting you in the position of having to be their parent instead of their partner, which is really unfair to you as you go through your own job search on top of it.

      1. Kathenus*

        Definitely this. If the ASK for you to review or help, fine, then you’re helping in a way that they want. Other than that – their job search is their job search. It sounds like you trying to help and facilitate is stressing you both out.

    2. OtterB*

      I agree with Autumnheart that you have to disengage. You can support, if asked (“can you proofread this for me?”) but partner has to be the driver.

      Is it possible that if you get a job in the new location, they could relocate without a job and then search? It’s supposed to be easier to search locally, although I suppose this depends somewhat on the field. But it might also be less anxiety-inducing to not have to worry about current job, relocation, and job hunt all at the same time.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Is it possible that if you get a job in the new location, they could relocate without a job and then search?

        My spouse and I have done a bunch of long-distance moves, and this is what has happened to us a couple of times—one of us gets a job, which allows us to move, and then the other continues searching while a local (local searches are much easier). The first job doesn’t financially sustain over the long term, but it’s enough to get us out there.

    3. Jersey's mom*

      What happens if you get the job now, while partner is still looking, sorta, in a way, when they’re feeling up to it?

      Maybe a frank discussion about that – “hey, I have a good feeling about this job I applied for. If it works out, I may realistically be looking to move to x (place) by y (date).” What happens then? Do you move while partner stays behind? Do you both move and partner either isn’t working, or has to take a part-time job outside their field?

      Also, this may help you better plan for the future. Is there a realistic chance that you might have to support both of you? Would you new job be sufficient for you to do that?

      1. Autumnheart*

        I’d be looking pretty hard at a partner who delegates their own job search, and doesn’t seem very motivated to actually apply and follow up. Especially if they’re sucking up a lot of oxygen in the room and requiring a lot of emotional support…from a person experiencing identical stressors.

    4. fposte*

      Just a question–would your partner ask how they can support you? I hope so, but it’s not sounding like it to me.

      You can’t want it more than they do. You can’t love them into being the candidate that they need to be. What you can do is for you: think about what you want to do if this is the partner you have, rather than the partner you hoped to have. Will you turn your job offer down if they don’t have a possibility? Do you want to continue the relationship if it’s still an LDR but even more L? Do you want to be together with you supporting both of you on the west coast?

  207. magnusarchivist*

    I just have to gripe about this to someone.
    Our central IT dept just added a message at the top of all external incoming email messages to prevent people from getting phished or downloading a virus (which I guess happens a lot?). So at the top of all of our emails from external senders, we now have this big, red and black box of text that says: CAUTION: This message came from outside of [institution]. Do not click links or attachments unless you expected this email.

    This message appears as the snippet in my inbox list view and in the new email pop-ups. So where my inbox used to look like this:

    Smith, Bob. Re: Project X
    Jane is right about the timeline, I’ll do Y by Friday.
    Doe, Jane. Re: Project X
    Do we have until the end of the month to submit Y?

    Now it looks like:

    Smith, Bob.
    CAUTION: This message came from outside of…
    Doe, Jane.
    CAUTION: This message came from outside of …

    All the way down.
    We hates it, we hates it forever.

    1. RandomU...*

      Yuck… can you complain about this with your IT? I get what they are doing, but that doesn’t provide a great user experience.

      Or can you try a different list view?

      1. magnusarchivist*

        I just want my actual message content snippets back :( There isn’t a view that provides that — snippets always pull from the first text in the body of the message.

        But yes, I have sent actual polite and reasonable feedback to IT in addition to venting to strangers on the internet

        1. Teapot Librarian*

          I did the same thing when our IT did this a few months ago. I didn’t even get a “we acknowledge this sucks but this message is SUPERIMPORTANTCANNOTCHANGE” response. (I wonder if there are studies that show it does any actual good in the real world.)

          1. KayEss*

            My experience in IT email security communications is that a truly unbelievable amount of obnoxious efforts get made to reduce the rate of people clicking on phishing emails from “extremely low” to “a minuscule amount lower than extremely low,” because if even ONE person foolishly gets their direct deposit rerouted to Nigeria it’s a huge, upend-the-entire-IT-security-process deal. (Side note: guess why that workplace wound up finally instituting an extremely annoying two-factor authentication process on the HR self-service system!) So in a user base of 1000+, “we had 20 instances of people falling for phishing emails” is considered A Problem, even though it’s proportionately so small as to be pretty much impossible to affect with blanket user policies… but Something Must Be Done!

            This is especially fun in environments where there’s an unusually high proportion of people with low technical literacy and high self-importance, such that they consider it beneath them and/or a waste of their valuable time to critically evaluate suspicious emails that may enter their inbox, and therefore click on EVERYTHING. (*cough*HigherEd*cough*)

            1. Rey*

              I’m adjacent to HigherEd. Thanks for explaining why I can blame stupid IT processes (like two-factor) on stupid self-important people that I already didn’t like. Because all of us non-important people know NOT TO CLICK ON SPAM!!

              1. valentine*

                Tell them to add it to the end. Say people will gloss over it and forget, but when it’s at the end, it’ll be the literal last word/takeaway. Also, I don’t think this is going to help, that the clickers will still be like, “I wasn’t sure if you meant this link, so I tried it and it seemed ok oh no not again”.

    2. A Non E. Mouse*

      which I guess happens a lot?

      Yes. It does. It’s shocking how often, and usually the same people.

      As to the rest, giant pox on their heads.

      1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

        Today, I got “CAUTION – EXTERNAL EMAIL” on the company newsletter.

      2. JustaTech*

        My work email got so uptight that any email from France went straight to junk. Including replies to emails I had sent. Given two of our important suppliers are in France, it was an issue.

        And now every time I open any Word, Excel or Powerpoint off of my network drives Office kindly opens it in “read-only” mode to protect me from documents from the internet. That are actually off our internal servers, and that *I* wrote. Thanks, computer.

    3. Not All*

      You work for DOI too???? ;-)

      I hate BisonDisconnect with a passion!!!!! Bring back Outlook! (hell, at this point I miss LotusNotes)

    4. Dr. Anonymous*

      Wait, it gets better. OUR IT department is so concerned with the dangers of phishing emails that we get frequent fake phishing emails. We have a special internal email address to which we’re supposed to forward suspicious emails and we get an automated attaboy message if we correctly identify and forward a fake phishing email. Currently I’ve successfully identified every fake phishing message as a fake one. Sometimes I get two or three a day. I can’t get them to stop. You cannot graduate from phishing school. I feel ridiculously resentful, but I try to remind myself it’s not like the idiots generating these fake fake emails are people who would otherwise be working on replacing our 7 years out of date dictation software that haunts me every day.

  208. Nessun*

    Venting here. I had to travel for work this week and was permitted to fly back on company time. So I booked a flight for 10 am this morning, and because of the Max 8 (?) plane issues, my flight got cancelled and bumped four times so far. I’m not leaving at 7:30 PM tonight, and that could still change. Hanging out at the airport is so utterly not how I wanted to spend hours on Friday afternoon. Technically I can book my day to adlin time and I’ll be paid, but it makes me irrationally angry to be stuck like this. Not the company’s fault, not the airline’s fault (not like they can just make more of the allowable planes). But still…I dont love air travel, and it’s a 4 hour flight, or at least it was. Now it’s a 2.5 hour flight followed by a stopover and another 1.5 hour flight. Ugh. TGIF?

    1. Teapot Librarian*

      Ugh, that really sucks. I hope that at least you’re getting some sort of compensation in the form of meal vouchers (at a MINIMUM). I had a “spend the entire day” at the airport experience the last time I traveled due to bad weather, and WOW is that not fun. Definitely vent-worthy!!

    2. OtterB*

      Ugh, so sorry! A dozen people from my office are traveling to a workshop early next week. Mix of airlines, departure dates, airports, and connecting hubs meant we were (literally) all over the map. One of us had his flight canceled and was rerouted. I think the rest of us are okay. Plus we have a couple hundred graduate students and speakers flying to the workshop. They have been warned to check their arrangements.

      1. Nessun*

        Very true! I keep reminding myself of that fact. I think my dislike of crowds makes it hard to be fully calm about the situation, but at least I so far have not taken any of my frustrations out in the poor airport staff.

    4. Parenthetically*

      Ugh!!

      If there’s a chapel in the airport — I think all or nearly all of them have something like that! — SEEK IT OUT. They are typically non-religious or at least very ecumenical, and phenomenally quiet. I personally love an airport bar and a book, but have sought refuge in airport chapels on many an occasion on a frustrating travel day.

      1. WellRed*

        I’d be right next to you on the bar stool with my book and would lend you mu phone charger if you needed.

  209. AvonLady Barksdale*

    In the academic job market saga… my partner got a final offer from a firm about 700 miles away, and the offer is SO good. Not as great as what he initially applied for, but they offered him a newly created post-doc-type position (which he helped them customize) and he negotiated for $15k above their base. Great benefits too. Yet he’s still reluctant because of future considerations. He also got an email from a university about 3 hours away asking him to apply for a visiting job there. The pay is decent, and if he takes it, then I wouldn’t relocate and he could probably live with me for 3 days of the week. Personally, I would rather he take the offer from the firm because I think it’s an amazing opportunity, but I know he’s concerned about his future prospects in academia.

    Now comes my part: I have to talk to my boss about working remotely, yet we still don’t have a final decision. I think, however, that my ability to move factors in here at least somewhat. The job at the firm is only guaranteed for a year, so it doesn’t make sense for me to job hunt in that city, yet I really would prefer not to be separated from my partner (nor he from me) by that kind of distance. Kind of ironic, because I told him that if he gets a post-doc in California that he applied for, I am definitely not moving. ARGH, this is so stressful!

    1. Argh!*

      I wouldn’t bring it up until the final decision’s been made by your partner. Why borrow trouble? In the meantime, you could check out the job landscape in the 700 miles-away location just in case.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        See above– it makes no sense for me to job-hunt if the position is only going to be for a year. There’s no guarantee I would find anything, and I couldn’t change jobs knowing that I would have to move again anyway (I’m at director level, so I’m kind of picky and reasonably well compensated). Also, my partner has decided to factor my ability to move into his decision.

        1. valentine*

          You’re saying you want to relocate for the 700-mile job and work remotely, but neither is necessary for the 3-hour job?

    3. WellRed*

      Look, I am not in academia but realize there’s tons of factors at play, but at some point he needs to s**t or get off the pot. We’d all like the perfect job.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Yes. There are a TON of factors at play. It’s really not that simple. If it were, we wouldn’t have a question, now would we? The man has spent five really difficult years working towards something important, and he deserves to have a job he a) wants and b) will take him where he wants to go. I would expect the same support from him; he has never, in all the years we’ve been together, told me to take a job just for the money. If I hesitate, there’s a reason, and he supports me. He deserves the same from me.

        Really happy for you if your world is a simple matter of black and white. Most worlds aren’t, things are complicated.

  210. TechWorker*

    Late to the party as usual.. :)

    I love my company, the people, the commute. I hate my project. I’ve started looking at jobs elsewhere but the amount of prep required is putting me off… like genuinely I reckon a decent weeks work to do the interview they want, even tho I’m 99% sure the academic stuff they’re looking at is not actually part of the job, & if it is you could look it up (which I could do now and understand on no prep, but hey).

    My company has ‘go talk to a director’ on Friday afternoons… I went

  211. TechWorker*

    Whoops apparently hit enter! I went to talk to a director today and intended to have professional discussion but mostly ended up complaining and in tears. They were really nice and said how my project is running is not how projects are intended to run.. and I sort of believe something may now change but I feel bad for probably dropping my manager in it a bit. (Though not that bad because I told him the project/team workload was unmanageable about 4 months ago and it’s taken 4 months of massive stress and me nearing a breakdown for him to believe me – from my POV anyway).

    So, a rant. And I probably wasn’t very professional, but I’m sort of too tired to care.

  212. Second place stings*

    Long time lurker, first time commenting! Looking for feedback on how others would approach this situation.
    I have been working for my company for almost 7 years, with 3 years of industry experience before that. My current role is home-based, as a teapot specialist. I support a range of teapots in commercial kitchens, and am the first point of contact for teapot complaints/troubleshooting/updates.

    A job recently became available in.. let’s say kitchen design. This internal role is responsible for recommending which teapots to buy, optimal kitchen layout and sometimes even procedural improvements (tea steeping time, etc). These jobs come up almost never. There is no higher level of teapot specialist to advance to (despite the fact that we need it). Long story short I did not get the job, it was between myself and another internal candidate.

    The kitchen design manager offered to try and ask my manager to accommodate an internship (maybe 10% of my work hours) so that I could get exposure to the job. In theory this would position me as first in line for the next kitchen design job. These jobs are regional, however, and the successful candidate is young.
    Do I bother with the internship? In theory it sounds great, but in practice my teapot support keeps me so busy it will be difficult to find the time. I don’t want to sound ungrateful, but I also don’t want to waste time learning a role that may never come available again before I retire. Thoughts? Sorry for the novel.

    1. JustaTech*

      I love learning new things, so take this with a grain of salt, but I would say try for it, with an understanding with your manager that you’ll drop it if it’s interfering with your regular work.

      You say the new kitchen designer is young, but that doesn’t mean that they might not be bored, or move away, or whatever. Another thing to consider, are there similar positions in other companies in your area? If you get the exposure at your current company, could you use that to get a kitchen designer job at another company?

      1. Second place stings*

        Thanks for the insight. I’m kind of hoping she doesn’t succeed (I know, I’m terrible) or maybe decides to relocate to the other side of the country. We’re both under 40, so if she likes the role and isn’t terrible at it, I’m out of luck. There are no similar positions, as I’m unwilling to relocate to our head office. As for another company.. maybe. I’ve already started looking. *sigh*

    2. Kathenus*

      If you want to position yourself for this next time, and your manager approves, I’d definitely try to take it. But right from the outset work with your manager on what 10% of your current duties will be deprioritized. Don’t wait until you’re swamped or try to cram everything into the same amount of time. Have a discussion at the outset. ‘Thanks so much for supporting this internal internship. Kitchen design manager said that this would be 4 hours/week, so 10% of my overall time. Here’s my proposal for what tasks could be deferred or delegated to account for that 4 hours/week during this internship’.

      Be proactive and see if you can set it up right at the beginning to be feasible with your workload.

      1. Second place stings*

        That’s great advice. It’s a very project based role, so it would be more like traveling 2-3 days a month to tag along with the team. The awkward part is my colleague would also be doing the same thing.. I don’t want to look like a pathetic hanger-on in front of clients.

  213. Sick and Tired*

    I started a new job last summer and very shortly after I came down with what should be a short-term but chronic health issue. (Think like a bad case of shingles).

    I managed to pass probation with only my manager needing to know, I took a some sick time, but everyone else thoight I was just fine. However, I’m still sick. I’ve started letting a few folks that I’m closer with know what’s going on and feel like there’s a decent level of understanding but with any invisible illness, it’s tricky.

    Fast forward 8-9 months. I really dislike my job, i feel like they baited and switched me. My role is *nothing* like was advertised. And while I’ve gained job security, nice coworkers and an organization that supports health issues my daily work life is a solid 4/10.

    I want to leave pretty badly. Here’s the rub, my health stuff is lingering badly. My energy levels are so low I’m taking at least two sick days a month – I havent dropped any balls but I am not doing what I would consider a full work load.

    I’m terrified to start a new job, give up my permanent position and not pass the new probation bc of health issues. Worried that starting a job search and starting a new job may set me back in regards to health.

    Also worried that bc I dislike my current job so much it may be contributing to stress etc that’s preventing me from fully recovering.

    What would you do in this catch 22?

    1. fposte*

      Oh, that sucks; sorry. If they’re not in the mix already, I would check with a doctor and consider a spot of therapy as well to negotiate the question. I’m not sure if you’re in the US or not, since you didn’t mention FMLA, but if you are, I’d check state laws to see whether there’s state protected leave that kicks in earlier (if so, consider taking it now) and what state laws there are on sick days. I’d figure out if I had savings to support me if I needed to coast, and how long that could be for.

      If you’re in the US, you unfortunately wouldn’t be eligible for federal FMLA until you worked at a new place for 12 months, so you could be fired for absence after your probationary period too in most states. I would want to have a pretty strong recommendation for the benefits of a change from health care professionals before I took that risk unless I had a really solid savings cushion. But if I had a really solid savings cushion, I’d probably just use it now and take a few months’ rest to try to really recover.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Oh yeah, that’s a tricky situation to be in. Because of the health benefits and insurance you probably don’t want to leave abruptly. But if the job is making you worse, you’d be better to leave.
      Is there any way you can take a medical leave or use FMLA? That’s probably going to be your best option.

    3. Darren*

      Your work is quite supportive of your health issues right? And you are taking two sick days a month, maybe you should look to structuring this a bit better, perhaps look to actively reducing your workload a little to try to give yourself a chance to recover fully?

      You can also have discussions with your manager about perhaps pivoting your role closer to what you want it to be and were expecting it to be initially.

      1. valentine*

        Is it possible it wasn’t a bait-and-switch, but they think it’s an accommodation? Can you do the work you were hired for in the time you have and at your current health level?

        Start job searching and see what’s out there, while doing your work as well as you can.

        Sit down and rank the things you need in order to work and in order to do good work. See what you would need in order to risk leaving. If it doesn’t come up, embrace what you have; choose something to look forward to every week. If it looks doable, plan to leave and look forward to it.

  214. JustaTech*

    I want to share a really great and smart thing my coworker does. When she needs to get more information from someone, she will say (on the phone of by email) “Is Tuesday too soon to check back in with you?”

    And just like that, she and whoever she’s working with will have a time frame for checking in on whatever. The person might say “No, Tuesday is too soon, how about Thursday” or “I should have what you need by Monday”, but that way they both have set a date for coming back to the topic so it doesn’t get forgotten, but also so she isn’t pestering someone for something that will take a week.

    Setting clear expectations is such an important part of good communication.

  215. Writing for Hire*

    WRITING FOR WORK Question

    I was primarily hired to write articles and create content for my team. I research and write 95% and the various subject experts typically review/input about 5% and then approve (sometimes a little more, maybe 90/10). However, when the articles get published they have the name(s) of various subject expert team members on them, and not my name. This never bothered me personally as I saw it as just being my job.

    But how should I explain this when I look for other writing jobs? I can say I’ve written it (and have proof I’ve done so, early drafts, etc.) but will a hiring manager really believe it was ME doing the research and writing if I send one of these articles as a writing sample? They obviously won’t have that context. Won’t that look weird?

    I also notice that when freelance writers are hired by my company, the writer gets the byline. But I don’t? I’m afraid now I may have done myself a disservice by not caring if I was credited. What’s the norm in this gray area of writing for work?

    1. Tarra*

      This is such a normal thing to do that it shouldn’t be a problem. This is how writing for internal comms often works.

    2. WellRed*

      I would believe you! Presumably, I’d also give you a (paid) quick writing assignment to ensure you actually can write.

    3. Writing for Hire*

      Thanks! It’s good to hear this is normal. I’ve always written things for work, but before this job nothing really had names or bylines attached.
      It never bothered me, but someone brought it to my attention and I felt kind of troubled.

      1. San Juan Worm*

        “Drafted and revised (type of article) on behalf of (title/name)” has worked well for me when indicating similar responsibilities on resumes and work samples.

  216. Organized Curiosity*

    I’m late to the party, but here goes anyway – I got a job offer today!!! Woohoo!!! It’s been nearly a year (to the day) since I began searching in earnest and the relief I felt after reading the details of the offer is indescribable. And a big thanks to Alison and everyone that comments on this blog; this site has been a constant source of reassurance, information, education, and entertainment. I’m looking forward to paying it forward!

  217. negotiating nancy*

    Advice on negotiating with increased responsibilities?

    I currently manage a small (4 person) team at a midsized nonprofit. This week I was informed that our department will be restructuring and that I will be absorbing another team into my own. This will bring my team up to 9 people, and will require me to learn and manage a whole new aspect of our organization (I currently manage the teapot design team, and now I will also manage the teapot sales team). I was offered a 6% raise and will be giving feedback to help determine my new title. I know that I am paid less than at least some of my peers, and in the past my director has pushed back on my negotiations by stating that team size is a consideration when determining salary; I currently manager one of the smaller teams at the org, but will soon manage one of the largest.

    With this new development, I negotiated and they were not very willing to budge, but increased the offer slightly to a raise of just about 7%. Because I didn’t get much movement on my raise, I’m thinking about negotiating two other aspects of my position that I find challenging, but they are unique and I’m not quite sure how to go about it.

    One is office space: I am one of only two managers who has a cubicle instead of an office, and there are no vacant offices. With encouragement from our shared supervisor, I have an informal arrangement to use the office of a colleague who works elsewhere 2x a week, but I don’t have my name on the door and often have to ask people to move when I don’t get in first thing on my days — people seem to think it’s a communal office — so I would like to ask for a more formal office-share set up. I often need to have confidential conversations about clients with my staff, and this will increase with my new team members, so I feel regular use of a space with a door is essential.

    The second is admin support: most teams at my organization (save for one or two, mine included) have an assigned admin. The team I’m absorbing currently has an admin but she will be switched to support a different project and will not be joining my team. In the past, my supervisor has told me to utilize my office-share colleague’s admin as needed, but again it is an informal arrangement. As far as I can tell, my colleague has not communicated this to her admin, who has frequently told me she needs to check with her manager before agreeing to help me with a project, which often takes a while and makes me reluctant to get her assistance on anything time sensitive. Again, I think formalizing this set-up would make it a lot easier and more clear for everyone involved. I’m anticipating a lot more administrative tasks falling to me with my new team.

    As a note, the above-mentioned colleague (office share/admin support share) is difficult to work with, which increases my desire to formalize these arrangements. I have tried to talk with her about getting her support for getting her admin’s assistance on my projects, and she always insists that she’s on board but then brushes off my attempts to have her clarify this with her staff member.

    Any advice on how to broach these topics for negotiation with my supervisor?

    1. BRR*

      I don’t really think they’re requests to make up for your raise. These are both business requests. I’d frame it as with the increased team size you would like these additional resources.

  218. Unsurewhattothink*

    TGIF friends! Hope you all have a great weekend!!

    I have a situation and not sure what to think about it.

    In my last position I was a Supervisor having been promoted from within as an hourly employee. A coworker/ friend of mine who I later supervised applied for a position at a company doing the same job within the same industry that we both work in. My friend got an interview at this company but ended up not getting the job. Fast forward to last week when my friend calls me and tells me that she was contacted by the terminal manager that had interviewed her the first time. He asked her if she was still interested in the position but unfortunately she told him no because she had already accepted another offer. While talking to him she mentioned me and my experience and said that I would be a good fit.

    After getting off the phone with my friend I called the terminal manager but I had to leave a message with the employee that ended up taking my call as he had gone to lunch. I told her why I was calling and that the terminal manager had just spoke to my friend about a position and I wanted to talk to the terminal manager about the position. She asked me what position I was interested and asked me if I had an application on file. I told her I did (as I had applied for the exact same position as my friend). She asked me my name and said she would pull my application. She pulls my application and says she thinks they are holding off on hiring for the position because they are slow at the moment. She said she would put my application on the terminal manager’s desk and leave a message for him to give me a call.

    Two days go by and I hear nothing. So I email the terminal manager on the third day and I have heard nothing.

    Now I am thinking my experience as an Office Supervisor might have hurt me if the person that took my call was a Supervisor who I might be working under? This is only speculation as I don’t know what position the person that took my call holds.

    Does this sort of thing still happen?

    1. fposte*

      I think it’s likelier that they just reached out to another finalist instead, or decided to fully repost the position and are getting that in the works. The opinion of the person who took the phone call shouldn’t interfere with whether the terminal manager contacted you or not.

  219. Say Anything*

    Anyone ever thought of leaving a job because they’re lonely at work?

    Open-plan offices are The Devil, and I’m in an especially miserable set-up. While I (as an introvert) consider having my own cubicle or working from home ideal, I’m actually OK with open-plan offices if I am friendly with my neighbors. But my situation is Introvert Hell: I sit at the end of a row, and my only neighbor is my boss, Mona, who barely speaks to me.

    Mona is a generally bubbly person and is friendly with other people in the office, but for some reason rarely makes any attempt at small talk or conversation with me. I’ve tried in the past and only gotten short answers with zero eye contact. Sometimes, I’ll have a friendly conversation with her at a happy hour, but things go back to being downright icy the following Monday. I’m trying my best to accept the situation and not take it personally, but I can’t help feeling socially starved, lonely, and miserable.

    I knew things were bad when I walked into my performance review feeling anxious and unsure of how Mona thought of me as an employee (I hadn’t gotten any feedback whatsoever up to that point, seeing as she *barely talks to me*), and when she started off saying I was doing an amazing job, the first thing out of my mouth was, “Really?”

    The only feedback I’ve gotten from her is positive, and yet I still have no idea where I really stand with her when I keep getting the cold shoulder the rest of the time. She also doesn’t delegate much work to me these days because Grandboss and Uncle-boss like to borrow me for other tasks and projects.

    My job is enjoyable, I like my team, and Mona is great to work for other than the lack of feedback and our mutual awkwardness, but this social starvation has not been great for my anxiety. I’d be more likely to stick around if I could work from home more often (highly unlikely since my industry values “face time”) or sit next to my peers who I can chat with, but even if my superiors don’t find “Can I change desks because I’m so ronery” ridiculous, changing work desks costs the company a fair amount of money (technical stuff I don’t want to give too much detail on).

    1. Argh!*

      That kind of thing is part of why I’m in the market at the moment. Our workplace culture is unfriendly. Some of it is due to a lot of introversion & quite a few people on the spectrum who aren’t interested in socializing, but part of it is due to the toxic nature of the place. Nobody trusts anybody.

      The only answer for sticking it out is to develop more of a life outside of work. I’m 50/50 introvert/extravert & I find it exhausting to try to make friends in the city where I live. It’s very family-oriented, and even unmarried people tend to socialize only with their family.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      I don’t know here, but is it possible you’re reading too much into this? I don’t really see that Mona is acting inappropriate or doing anything that raises red flags other than being reserved/cool. Unless she’s also being snarky/mean or something?

      It’s perfectly normal for managers to be reserved around their direct reports. They should be! They’re not their to be your “friend” and you shouldn’t expect them to be more than professional and polite and provide direction and feedback when needed.
      Now, If Mona isn’t giving you enough work to do, you can address that aspect with her and work on a plan for how you should allocate your time. But if the problem with the job is mainly that you’re lonely, I think you shoud focus on cultivating relationships with your other colleagues, or volunteering for other office activities and not worry about Mona’s standoffish demeanor too overly much.

      1. valentine*

        Maybe Mona is leading by example and avoiding the appearance of favoritism?

        The higher-ups wanting you to work for them is good. Could that lead to a different or better role?

        You’re making up rules and following them and assigning emotions and reacting to them. Sit down with the facts. You want to sit closer to your peers. Ask. Mona saying no is better then you telling yourself no on her/IT’s/the purseholder’s behalf. Maybe there is someone with the same equipment who would prefer to be on the silent end and would happily switch with you. Give it a chance. I’m thinking Mona would prefer you ask than to be blindsided that yet you’re leaving over something you thought wasn’t worth mentioning.

        Morale/fit/camaraderie is vital. Don’t diminish or dismiss your needs.

    3. ContemporaryIssued*

      What kind of conversations are you looking to have? Just general small talk, “how was your weekend” type of stuff? Longer conversations about work projects or what is happening at the office?

      It’s possible she’s just very focused on her work and expects you to be the same. Can you wander over to your peers to chitchat once or twice a day to get your social fill? If your office has a break room, a coffee machine or some general area where people hang out to maybe talk work, but also maybe just to grab a coffee or relax for a while, you can take a few breaks and go to that area, and maybe catch somebody else in a quick small talky conversation. I work in my own office because I have to be on the phone a lot and need my own privacy for those conversations, but when I’m not busy I will take my phone to our office’s cafe area and make small-talk, then go back to my own office after a while.

      If it’s just about getting feedback more often than at your yearly review, I think it’s fair to ask for that. “Do you have any feedback on how Project A went last month, and whether there was anything I could improve upon?”

      1. MissDisplaced*

        Yes, and it’s also fair to ask Mona for more frequent feedback regarding your work, such as a weekly check-in or project review. It’s ok to need that from a manager and ask for it.

        I re-read this letter and also wonder if maybe Mona is uncomfortable with open office setups and/or sitting so close to a direct report and can’t move OP for somewhere else for some reason.
        >I sit at the end of a row, and my only neighbor is my boss
        > short answers with zero eye contact
        >generally bubbly w/others but rarely makes any attempt at small talk or conversation with me

        I mean, I generally don’t make much small talk with those who sit directly near me either! You really try to tune them out beyond a good morning.

  220. Alice Scott*

    I am a federal employee working under the DOD. I recently “applied” for another job working under the same position description just in a different area and most of the work focuses on one part of my position discription. Again, same PD same wage. I was told I didn’t get the job even though (over every other “applicant”) I have more time in grade, more experience doing that part of the job, and have actually worked in that section before.
    Can they NOT give me the job? I asked for the reason however I was not given a response.

    1. Database Developer Dude*

      It’s the federal government. All my Fed friends tell me that the decision is completely subjective. You could objectively beat all other candidates by miles, and if your interviewer or supervisor-to-be doesn’t like you, you’re not getting in.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Yes, another fed here, and they can legit not give you the job. I remember back in 2010 or 2011 that Hiring Managers had to write justification statements explaining why they were rejecting candidates, and those statements had to be available on request. I don’t know if that’s still being required, but it might be worth going back to your HR contact for that vacancy announcement and ask to see the Hiring Manager’s rejection statement on you. It might just be a one- or two-sentence comment, but it would be better than nothing. Good luck.

  221. AnonForNow*

    This is currently a hypothetical situation, but plausible as I am job hunting.

    Has anyone ever been in a situation where they felt stuck careerwise at work, but otherwise loved their coworkers/was comfortable, but still moved onto another job? How did that go for you? How did you manage getting out of your comfort zone?

    I’m currently in this situation, and as much as I want a more fulfilling job, I will also miss my coworkers and the general atmosphere of my current work when/if I leave. I can’t imagine having just as good coworkers anywhere else! I wonder if this is has somewhat to do with the fact that this is my first “real” job, and I can’t imagine being in any other workplace because this is the only one I have been in.

    I also know it’s good to step out of your comfort zone, and there is no growth potential in my current job. It’s also not exactly what I want to do for the rest of my career. Basically, it’s like I’m intellectually – but not emotionally – ready to take a new job.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      This means you have the luxury of being choosy. Look around. Look for positions that wow you. Have a short list of what would really appeal to you in a new job and keep that those things in mind as you look.

  222. Anonanon*

    My younger bro called out sick from his newish grocery store job twice earlier in the week and then just didn’t show up twice later in the week due to a relapse with his alcoholism. Is there ANY way to salvage this and not get fired? I know it’s not the highest priority but it’s up there. Thoughts? Come clean to management about his status as a recovering alcoholic? Apologize profusely and make up a bogus excuse?!

    1. WellRed*

      No, not salvageable. Also, if he’s drinking, especialluy to the point it’s interfering with work, he’s not recovering, he’s an alcoholic. Also please disengage from this. Not your problem.

      1. valentine*

        He was absent four of five or seven days. If they’ve not fired him, they’re extraordinarily compassionate or lax. Best to focus on recovery, if that’s something he’s willing to do, and start fresh elsewhere. If he’s remorseful, he can apologize and say he must resign for health reasons.

        I understand if you consider the job a priority, but he obviously can’t fulfill the requirements right now. If he lives with you or you otherwise financially support him, you may want to reconsider that. This isn’t yours to take on. Leave him to it.

    2. Zona the Great*

      Not salvageable. The best may be to admit a problem while acknowledging he’s not cut out for it. That’s what is fair to employer while leaving the best possible impression of your brother. Don’t be a flake who got fired. Be a flake who just admitted defeat while graciously bowing out.

    3. Not A Manager*

      I’m sorry your brother is going through this. Do you have any support for yourself? Have you looked into Al Anon?

      I know that’s not answering your question. But the fact that you’re asking the question on his behalf makes me think that maybe you could use a bit of support yourself.

    4. Anonanon*

      I doubt anyone will be returning to this thread but FWIW: he came clean to management, asked for a week or two to get it together and then return to work, and they’ve elevated it to corporate to make the call. It’s up in the air still, but it wasn’t an immediate ‘no, you’re fired.’
      Yes, I’ve gone to al anon and am looking out for myself. Please understand that advice like “disengage” or “not your problem” doesn’t address the fact that this is my brother and I care for his well being.

  223. Sleepless*

    OMG. We just hired someone in niche role that we’ve been needing to fill for months. She is great-experienced, skilled, and has a great attitude. But (I *knew* there was going to be a BUT) she smells like a cat hoarder. That stink of old cat urine that you can’t even smell anymore because it’s permeated their whole house. It poisoned my whole day. I asked my spouse to smell me when I got home because I was so certain I had picked up the smell.

    So right before I left I spoke privately to our boss about it, because we are client-facing and I was horrified at the idea that the public can smell it. And…my boss said she hadn’t noticed it but would try to see if she could smell it! Leaving me to wonder about my sensory input in general. I used to work with someone who had the most horrible, foul breath I have ever smelled…I could smell it in her work area after she’d been there for a couple of hours…and even in our gossip-heavy workplace, nobody else ever mentioned it. So now I’m wondering if I’m truly the only one who ever noticed.

    Maybe I’ll have to start putting Vick’s Vaporub on my upper lip on days I work with her!

    1. MissDisplaced*

      You might be a super smeller! Are you also sensitive to the way things taste? They go together.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      It could also be that others notice but haven’t quite gotten to the point where they consciously think “What is that smell?” The fact that you pointed this out to your boss might help your boss realize that it’s there.

      For example, we just bought a piece of furniture at an estate sale for my child’s room. I noticed within an hour that it has a strong perfume smell that I now realize was also the smell of the house we got it from. My husband didn’t notice when I mentioned it and then a day later said he can’t believe he didn’t pick up on it before.

    3. Anoncorporate*

      I sympathize because I have the same issue you do – I pick up on smells other people don’t, and sometimes feel uncomfortable with certain odors that don’t bother other people. Idk what to do because I’m usually in the minority in these situations. Something that light help is to wear a strong fragrance on yourself (like your risk) so that you are closer to that smell than your coworker.

  224. Database Developer Dude*

    Wow… so I have a good buddy who just lost his wife a month ago. He went back to work after a week, and his first line supervisor said to him “about time you came back, you really left us in a bind.” His response: “I’m sorry my wife’s death caused you personal inconvenience, I’ll strive to do better next time”.

    Supervisor wrote him up, and thanks to their glacially slow procedures, it took another two weeks…but as of today, he’s fired for insubordination. Does he have any recourse??

    1. Laura H.*

      I dunno if he has any recourse, but I can’t entirely blame him for responding that way….

    2. MissDisplaced*

      It depends on the state and its “at will” employment laws, but basically an employee can be fired/let go at any time. However, he can certainly file for unemployment and fight to get it. He could possibly speak to an attorney about wrongful termination, but my guess is it probably isn’t worth the effort and legal fees.
      But man, what a jerkoff manager and suckass company. WTF! Who does that!

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Is it considered wrongful termination (I was going to say retaliation but I don’t know if that fits) if he can make a case that he was effectively fired for taking bereavement leave?

      1. fposte*

        Bereavement leave isn’t a week, and it’s not statutorily protected federally. So no, I would doubt it. Unless he’s in Montana, this is an employment at-will situation.

      2. Just Another Manic Millie*

        But he wasn’t fired for taking bereavement leave. I bet that if he had kept his mouth shut, he wouldn’t have been fired. Not that I am blaming him AT ALL for saying what he did. The manager and company are jerkoffs, as mentioned above.

    5. Not A Manager*

      That sucks. That company sucks. I truly hope your friend finds a much better job very soon.

      1. Database Developer Dude*

        Thanks. He does what I do, and I’m trying to get him a job in my company.

    6. Approval is optional*

      I don’t know about recourse (different laws where I live), but the temptation to name and shame on social media would be hard to resist if he were my friend (perhaps I’d manage to control myself until he got a new job!).

    7. Approval is optional*

      Ok, a bit over my gut reaction to the line supervisor, so: is it possible to get a lawyer to write and ask to see the write-up if your friend hasn’t already seen it? It’s possible the write up the supervisor submitted to HR etc, doesn’t accurately detail what happened, and if it doesn’t, a lawyer’s letter pointing out its inaccuracy might help – there has been at least one other letter on AAM where someone was fired and when senior people got the full details the person was reinstated. (spiced food is perhaps the one I’m thinking of?) At the very least it might help with references.
      If the write up is accurate and they were crappy enough to fire him anyway, a lawyer pointing out how damaging this would be publicity wise – once your friend starts applying for unemployment/explaining to prospective employers why he was fired, he will need to give his side of the story (so not a threat to go gangbusters on the interwebs!) – might help your friend negotiate a decent reference.

      1. Database Developer Dude*

        He’s seen it. It’s accurate. It was for insubordination. Basically, the manager was complaining about his attitude, and he got fired for it. That company sucks anyway.

        1. valentine*

          Are you sure the quotes are verbatim, leaving nothing out, and there were no other incidents that day or later, no pattern of alleged attitude?

          Was the leave approved and did he give them several days’ notice of when he’d return?

          1. Database Developer Dude*

            The quotes are verbatim, nothing was left out, and there were no other incidents that day or later…no pattern of alleged attitude.

            The leave was approved.

            This happened right after he came back. It was a combination of bereavement leave and PTO to deal with the immediate problems of his wife’s death…the admin stuff. I guess he gets to grieve on his own time… *smdh*.

    8. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      I can’t even… I’m speechless. My sympathy to your friend, and my encouragement to find a much less toxic work environment. After six months I still have people offering me hugs and a manager who lets me take an extra day here or there to settle things… awful.

    9. Kathenus*

      I don’t think he has legal recourse, but he can absolutely go up the food chain to let someone as high up in the company as possible know that the supervisor said this to him after his wife died, and why he was being terminated. As mentioned above he could choose to use social media too, but in some companies getting to the right person might result in some action. They could be horrified the supervisor did this and rescind it and discipline the supervisor (best case, maybe unlikely but you never know), or they could give a severance package in the hopes of smoothing things over and keeping the information in-house. He doesn’t have a lot to lose by trying, it’s possible that the upper management doesn’t know the details, they/HR may have only been told it was insubordination or something, I sincerely doubt supervisor told them the whole story so your friend should.

    10. Batgirl*

      I’d try a higher up first and if that didn’t work I’d go public. What a jerk! Your poor friend.

      1. Database Developer Dude*

        He doesn’t want to go public with this. Still dealing with losing his wife. We’re contemporaries, so he’s also 51. That’s still pretty young to be losing a similarly-aged spouse…and it’s hitting him pretty hard.

      2. MissDisplaced*

        I’m shocked that no one in HR questioned this incident. This is so pfiffle of a thing, and given the circumstances, it wouldn’t typically warrant someone being fired over a snarky comment. Sure, he could try going higher up, the management chain. But given they didn’t question his firing the first time, I’d say that company sucks and there are probably much deeper issues therein. Why would he want to go back?

        I admit, I would be tempted to be vindictive here, using Glassdoor and social media to shame this company.

  225. WellRed*

    This is so late but benefits people. I thought HSAs were available to those with high deductible plans which I thought was around 1500. However, the company just bought us says 2k is the cutoff. Am I missing something? They are already reducing pto and paid holidays. Color me unmpressed so far.

    1. Steve*

      2019 minimum HDHP deductibles:

      $1,350 per individual
      $2,700 per family

      That said, it’s a minimum deductible, not a max.

    2. fposte*

      It’s $1350 for a self-only plan and $2700 for a family plan. Sounds like the company that bought you has a higher cutoff. Sorry, sounds like it’s not a good change.

  226. Kelly*

    I’ve been working for a startup company with 3 other locations in the state (Ohio). Last month we traveled twice to other locations. Anyone with a larger vehicle was requested (not required) to provide transportation for carpool, and I offered to drive my SUV. I was reimbursed for mileage. I now feel I shouldn’t offer to drive in the future due to insurance liability. I’m an hourly employee, and this is an unnecessary risk. The handbook does state that a car rental should be used when possible, but I think that’s just for legal purposes. Travel one-way to other sights average 100miles. We’re all a fun group, and I don’t want to seem like a stick in the mud. I know my manager will completely understand my hesitation, but I want to use the right words. Thanks!

    1. SunshineOnMyShoulder*

      Price out a rental. It might be cheaper than mileage reimbursement, and then you can present it as a benefit. (If you’re traveling often, you can probably set up a corporate rate with a local facility. Ours even delivers/picks up the cars from our lot, so it’s no extra time for employees to use one.)

      1. valentine*

        If you use a rental, presumably your employer will pay the daily insurance, but do look into what your personal liability is, and just don’t volunteer your vehicle. They’re not going to ask you specifically, yeah? But if they do, be ready with you’d feel better using a rental.

  227. Mashed potato*

    It’s late friday night so IDK if anyone will read this.
    but im applying to a job rn and I came across things I’m questioned about
    1) this application is asking for emergency contact even though I am not even guaranteed to be hired? First time in three years of applying that I have seen this and remember to ask. Maybe a government job or more hush-secret or high danger sensitivity job I would expect, but for an entry level floor worker ish job I dont’ expect this. Is this a red flag or they don’t know what they’re doing
    2) one of my reference manager had been fired from the job, can i still put this person down as the address of the company? the person is not allowed physically in the building anymore, but last i heard they were still trying to figure out what to do with the person bc of client relation that involves said person, lmao. I doubt they will waste gas and send someone to check this person’s existence.

    1. fposte*

      1) is a sign that they’re using an inapplicable template. If you can’t leave it blank, try putting in your own name and info.

      2) ask the person what contact info you should provide for them now. If they call the person, which is what happens with a reference, you want them to be able to answer.

  228. Cg1254*

    Does anybody here work in international business, and if so what’s your job title and what do you do regularly? I’m about to graduate high school, and while I’ve looked up the various fields within the international business it’s not really helpful — considering my work experience is limited to waiting tables

  229. Julia*

    I work in an open office where only the higher ups get their own rooms. One of them is constantly playing loud music with the door open, and it’s driving me nuts how none of the other higher ups say anything about it. We have to do difficult translations in the office or study very technical terms, and I already have a hard time focusing with everyone between assignments squealing over the latest “cute” marshmallow gift we received or whatever. Ugh.

    1. valentine*

      Email: Hey, Aloysius.
      I can hear Hozier’s latest from my desk. Would you please turn it down and close your door?
      Thanking you kindly in advance,
      Julia

  230. RabbitGal*

    A week or two back I commented about having communication issues with my supervisors. Last Tuesday we reviewed my quarterly stats and I was optimistic about talking better with her. I got an e-mail last Tuesday from the vice president of sales to most of the company that my sup was no longer with the company. I can’t tell if she quit or was fired by the tone. I heard a conversation between her and someone in a different department sometime last year about her getting angry and turning in a notice a year in advance. She didn’t say at that or any other time when she was leaving.
    The new fun part is fixing new communication issues. The vice president said my team reported to our grandboss, and grandboss forwarded an email I sent her to the one supervisor left in my team right now. We had three supervisors six months ago.

  231. Newbean*

    I am looking into going back to school to take a certificate program on Full Charge Bookkeeping. My only experience is that I work for an accounting agency and I help with payrolll. I think this is something that interests me and I can see myself doing the bookkeeping work for a long time. ( I think, I mean I’ve never actually done it.) Can anyone who works in this field give me advice on what to look for in a school or what I should be learning in order to be successful? Thank you!

  232. MikeeBeth*

    I’ve been working at a fast-casual restaurant for about six months to try to rake in a little extra money, and I really hate it. I’m applying for other part time jobs to replace this one. I’m not going to put it on my resume once I have quit since it’s not relevant to the rest of my job experience and my overall stay will likely be less than a year, but should I put it on my resume and on applications while I’m still employed there? I figure I’ll have to on applications that require your entire job history, but what about the ones that only require your last 3-5 jobs?

  233. Chaordic One*

    Just thought I’d whine about my night shift job. We share our desks with day shift workers and mostly it works out O.K. There’s a computer monitor in the middle of an L-shaped desk and the day shift person uses one side of the desk for their stuff and the night shift person uses the other one. The desk top is always mostly clear with a few office-related things pushed to the back. We use the whole desk top when at work, but make sure to leave it clean when we leave.

    Even though, there is a half hour period between the day shift is supposed to leave and the night shift starts, sometimes day shift workers will get caught in a long-winded conversation situation with a customer and they’ll still be on the phone and at the desk when the night shift worker shows up and is supposed to start. (The person I share my desk with is more than a foot shorter than I am, and I always have to adjust the chair and the desk up from the lowest position, but that’s a minor complaint.) She is always at the desk when I’m supposed to start, though, which is a pain. One day, a couple of weeks ago, she was on the phone for more than half an hour after I was supposed to start. I let my supervisors know about the situation and they don’t seem to think it is a problem.

    The thing that really bothers me about it is that when I finally get to use my desk, it takes 10 minutes to log into the computer and the telephone and start up all of the different programs I need to do my work. (According to office protocol we have 7 minutes to get logged into everything.) I feel like I’m always getting a late start. So that’s my vent for the day.

    Meanwhile, (I wish I had watched GOT so I could use the character names to describe the following situation). There’s new coworker, Bev, who seems to be very shy. I don’t recall ever seen the person she shares her desk with, but apparently he’s a crabby old guy named Dirk (the jerk).

    When Bev has left behind a few things pushed back into the corner of her side of the desk (a water bottle, a box of kleenex, a mug containing pencils and pens), Dirk moves everything from the desk top to shelves above the desk. Meanwhile, Dirk leaves fast food wrappers on Bev’s side of the desk, and when I get to work, Bev is usually cleaning the desk because there’s stuff left on the desk top, like dried ketchup. Bev left Dirk a polite note asking him to not touch her stuff and to please leave the desktops clean and when she came back to work the note was left crumpled up on her side of the desk and her few personal items were moved up to the shelf above it.

    I didn’t know the full extent of the problem until Friday when my coworkers were commenting about it. Bev is too shy and conflict-averse to do anything more about the situation and she has been out of the office on a pre-arranged vacation this past week. I was flabbergasted to know the whole story and urged my coworkers to tell our supervisor, which they did. Things are going to come to head with Dirk next week, and I’m kind of worried about Bev facing repercussions from Dirk.

    I mostly think I did the right thing, although it might be a “Not my monkeys, not my circus” situation and I hope I didn’t stir things up. I guess we’ll just have to see what happens next.

    1. valentine*

      Are you not being paid for the 30 minutes you’re waiting to start? (The login time should already be paid.) That’s ridiculous. Leaving a shared space on time is more important than starting on time. If she’s getting OT, she’s no incentive to stop this. Can you start on a different system? Ask for three extra setups so displaced people can start on time.

      While reporting bullying is the right thing to do, someone should warn Bev and some of you should have been telling Dirk to leave her stuff alone and to clean up after himself, so he’d see she’s not alone.

  234. Alex*

    I’ve only worked in two professional office settings, so I’m just wondering if my experience is normal or not.

    In my workplace, and in my former workplace, no one really wanted to be working there. Everyone always congratulates people who gave their notice for “escaping.” You can have a conversation with a coworker you don’t even know that well, and it is kind of a given that you are both trying to figure out a way to leave. Jokes about wanting to quit, or getting a new job, or just joking around that of course you both hate working here, are very common.

    My workplace (and my prior workplace) both pay above average for this particular setting and give excellent benefits, so finding a new job that is competitive in that way is pretty hard. However, everyone is always miserable, and everyone acknowledges that they’d rather not be there.

    Is that pretty standard in workplaces? Is this just a way that office workers bond with each other? The only other contexts I’ve worked in were working with children in various ways, where such talk was NEVER heard. Is it because office work is inherently unfulfilling? (whereas working with kids is usually pretty rewarding, despite it being challenging). I definitely feel miserable at my job, and I’m just wondering if I should ever hope for an improvement.

    1. MikeeBeth*

      I’ve not worked in “office” settings, per se, but I have been working for almost 10 years in library and retail/food service, and I’ve only seen this setting in the jobs that I liked the least, and the worst in the job I’m actively trying to leave (see my comment above). Ironically, the worst offender is actually the person I like working with most so I guess take from that what you will. All this to say, in my experience this is not common and not an environment I personally enjoy. I’ve worked in libraries other than my retail and food service jobs, and in every library I’ve worked in there was a generally positive attitude about being at work. And just from reading this blog and hearing about others’ experiences with culture fit, I absolutely thing there is hope for you in finding an office job that is fulfilling and not miserable!

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Wow.

      I am far less concerned about whatever is going on at your workplace than I am with your own racism. Those ideas and comments are not welcome here, and I hope Alison will delete this comment.

  236. Astrea*

    Argh. I’m sttuggling to navigate conflicting resume and cover-letter guidance from AAM posts, AAM commenters, an employer’s own job-applocation guidance website, and a friend who works for that employer (in an academic capacity) and professionally mentors people seeking academic and non-academic work. Friend has assessed hundreds of resumes and cover letters, but so has Alison. I don’t know who to believe when one says the other is wrong about things like verb tense, where to put education, and whether a cover letter should ever have a bullet point format. Or how to defend any of my choices to go against Friend’s guidance, especially if I then get rejected.

    1. Chaordic One*

      I can’t imagine that there would be a great deal of difference between Alison’s advice and your friend’s. It sounds like your friend works in academia, and academia does have its own conventions, but again I don’t think they’d be that different from what Alison advises. Unless you’re applying at your friend’s employer, I think I’d go with what Alison advises.

      That said, I tailor each resume and cover letter to the job I’m applying for. For most jobs I list work experience first as that is what usually relates to the job I’m applying for, but for some I’ll emphasize my education. Depending on circumstances I’ll give more emphasis to particular jobs (teapot architecture) and minimize the irrelevant experience (teapot assembly) at others. Sometimes I’ll emphasize my education in teapot design and other times it will be teapot assembly depending on what the advertisement for the position lists.

      I don’t think you should have to defend yourself if you go against your friend’s advice. She can’t be much of a friend if it would offend her if you did. As a compromise, why don’t you try to mix things up. Send out some cover letters and resumes in the style that your friend advises and also send some out in the style advised by Alison. (Your friend doesn’t have to know.) See what kinds of responses you get and, going forward, go with whichever style gets the most responses.

      1. Astrea*

        Right now, I’m making a cover letter and resume that integrate a mix of advice from her and from Alison — education below work expeeiences, past & present verbs for past & present jobs, but some of her suggested revisions, including usage of soft descriptors (e.g. about “dedication, flexibility, and capacity for fast learning”) and perhaps no bulleting in the cover letter. I am applying to her empolyer, a university, though for a non-academic job. I’ve agreed to her request that I send her my revised versions before applying, but stated that she’s *one* of my guidance sources and I’m not going to simply use the very verbose versions she (re)wrote for me; she is displeased. This is the job I’ve been twice rejected for, so I was desperate for ideas on improving my application, but this effort to seek them might or might not do more harm than good.

        1. Chaordic One*

          Oh, dear! It sounds like your friend, though well-meaning, has some old-fashioned ideas that may not be helpful for you. It’s not completely unheard of to use bullet points in a cover letter if you are listing qualifications (for example), but I save them for the resume. I don’t feel good about using words like “dedication, flexibility, and a capacity for fast learning” in a cover letter. Even when true, it comes off like bragging. These are things you would want to show in an interview by using examples and without using those words.

          Unless our friend is actually going to see the cover letter and resume you use, I’d stick with Alison’s advice, but that’s just me. In the end, only you can decide what to do.

          1. Astrea*

            Yes. I planned to be more specific, with “I have worked independently and in teams, taking on extra tasks as needed in unexpectedly-understaffed workplaces, and often take initiative to improve ease of workplace operations for colleagues or quality of resources for the public.” That still needs to be backed up by examples (in my resume and, if possible, an interview), but it’s less generic. But she added those “bragging” descriptors to what I had written. I did do away with the bulleted format of the cover letter — I think it might be better for applying to a job where I have fewer relevant experiences/qualifications (but enough to show that I qualify) and want to highlight each one. In ordinary paragraph format, it’s already a little longer than optimal, but shorter than her version.

            She addressed my cover letter’s salutation to the hiring committee, but the university’s hiring website says it should be addressed to the contact individual named in the job posting, so I’d rather go with the latter.

            She also directed me to add hobbies to my resume. I’ve never done that before, but AAM says it’s not a dealbreaker, and I do have some that are relevant to this position.

  237. RDGirl*

    I’m underpaid since the interview process was really slow and I had to reject the offer from another job to wait for this offer and didn’t have the time to negotiate. I accepted the first offer since I rejected the backup offer already.

    So after a year and two bosses, we recently had our yearly reviews and everything was going well. I was told I got the highest “rating” out of everyone. Boss 2 keeps telling me he’s putting me up for a raise and he’ll take care of it but realistically I don’t think a raise will be much more than a COL raise everyone receives. I’m hoping for a 10k raise above the COL but that seems unlikely. My first and current boss both had wonderful things to say and even tried to get extra perks for me since they wanted to show appreciation for all the extra things I did for them. This is my first real job with perks that I’ve had so I don’t know if asking for raises will work here. I do feel it’s not a company that does merit raises since I see a really high turnover within the company because everyone is switching jobs/departments to get raises. Boss 2 has said for months that the perfect job is coming and I’m the top candidate for it but I’m sure he’s just saying that so I don’t apply for a position and leave his location. The company is big and there are positions all over the state within many different companies. Boss 1 even emails me randomly/sends me job postings since he is no longer with the company.

    Does anyone have any success stories with companies that don’t seem to give merit raises actually giving them after asking? I really like the location, my coworkers and boss so that’s why I’ve been really hesitant in applying to a new job even though that’s what half my coworkers do. I also really dislike interviews to the point where I’d almost rather not do them even if I’d get triple the pay with 95% chance of getting the job. I’m just incredibly bad at interviews and I know it so applying to the mysterious future job that my boss will hire for is appealing. It could also take years before a position is available…

    1. Grace Less*

      I wasn’t sure if a company did merit raises, and my “department” was very different than 95% of the company, but I finally threw caution to the wind and asked. During a check-in, I said something like “I really like working here, especially x and y, but as I evaluate my long-term goals, the salary I’m making isn’t a good fit for them. Do you think it’s reasonable that I’d be making $10k more in 2 years — with additional responsibilities — or do I need to step back and re-evaluate? And then I stopped talking.

      I had the $10k in six months. My supervisor conferred with bosses and they all realized it would cost a lot more than $10k to replace me (although their language was more about ‘increasing both responsibilities and compensation as a strategic realignment.’)

      1. RDGirl*

        Thanks so much! It’s pretty similar for me in that they’d need to find someone willing to handle a lot of other departments along with the actual job. Sometimes I’m doing 3 jobs a day due to understaffing and call outs. I also asked to learn/train in the other departments so that’s why I was able to cover for others.

  238. Dilemma*

    Okay, this is a weird question.

    I just changed jobs, from one big tech company to another. A guy from my old company, let’s call him Simon, contacted me on LinkedIn to tell me that the senior engineer at my new office, Richard, used to be his friend, but they had a falling out because Richard runs a pseudonymous alt right, racist Twitter account, which he then deleted after he was identified. Googling Richard’s full name just brings up his LinkedIn and professional portfolios (it’s also an incredibly common name, maybe a notch less common than “Richard Smith” or whatever). But searching Twitter shows that the account did exist because people replied to it, but nothing of more substance than “haha yeah” or “I know right?” comes up.

    A significant percentage of people here in our office are either LGBT or minorities, and Richard is very nice to everyone. He’s also spoken about wanting to improve diversity in tech. Obviously, I can’t say what’s in this guy’s heart, but it’s really, really hard to believe this guy is a white nationalist or alt right.

    I’m in a very weird place, because it’s definitely possible that what Simon said could be true, and Richard is a virulent racist, but I don’t know from what I’ve sen. Richard is also Jewish, which IMHO makes him being some sort of white nationalist look even less likely but of course, it’s not impossible. I feel like I have to act, because something is going on here, but I have no idea what. Any advice, please?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Well… that’s odd. Perhaps Simon has a beef with Richard and wanted to get him in trouble? Has Simon ever been known to be vindictive like that?
      I think all you can do is to take Simon’s warning with a grain of salt and make your own impressions of Richard. If he presses you about it, you can say that you haven’t observed anything to indicate what he’s implying and leave it at that.

      1. Dilemma*

        Simon is very passionate about social justice causes, and I don’t doubt him there. Also, it would be a pretty dumb way for Simon to try to get revenge IMO. He sent me this on LinkedIn, so his full name and employer are right there, and if there was some empirical way to prove that this account wasn’t Richard, it would be easy for Richard to email Simon’s boss, to tell him that Simon was trying to get him fired by making fake accusations that Richard’s a racist. OTOH, I don’t know why Simon, if this was real, wouldn’t have contacted my new job’s HR about it.

        TBH, I think that Simon might just have the wrong person. Though again, it’s not like I can know what’s in my new coworker’s heart. Or Simon’s, but I worked with Simon for a few years so I believe that he wants the best.

Comments are closed.