my employees can’t move on after I yelled at them, boss found out I’ve been hiding mistakes, and more

by Alison Green on January 22, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My employees can’t move on after I yelled at them

I do not deny I have yelled at some of my employees out of frustration. I am in my 60’s and had several strokes and my demeanor is short. I have apologized, but the group of employees cannot get past the fact that I yelled and are now holding it against me. I know that I am out of touch with the younger generation, having grown up in the late 60’s and early 70’s and in a military household I would like to say, “Knock it off and get over it,” but I know that would make things worse. As an engineer, I am black and white with no emotions….kind of “shut up and get the job done.” Any advice on how to address the employees to get them past my past harsh yelling?

Normally I’d say to sincerely apologize and vow you’ll treat them more respectfully going forward … but that’s not going to sound genuine if you don’t really see what the big deal is and still think your employee should just “get over it.”

Yelling is abusive and it’s not reasonable to be frustrated that they won’t just get over it. I’m skeptical that you’ll be able to move past this unless you can find a way to see their point of view … and to do that, you have to be sincerely interested in learning, not just in trying to make the problem go away.

Part of what you need to learn is why your employees — and most employees, particularly people with options — won’t tolerate being spoken to abusively. The other thing you need to learn is better management skills; you yelled out of frustration, which means you don’t know how to get what you need as a manager. That’s a skills deficiency on your side, not theirs — and this won’t get better unless you learn how to get things done without losing your temper. More advice here and here.

2. My boss found out I’ve been hiding mistakes from her

I work at a pharmacy. At the interview, my boss said that she demands one thing: to tell her when I make any mistakes. I’ve been there for a year, and I didn’t tell her that I forgot I’d left the keys to the pharmacy attached to the outside doors three times. In fact, she discovered that after my colleague found them attached to the door at closing. She then talked to me (with no yelling) and said that this should not be repeated. Fast forward to two months after that, I made a mistake by not telling a patient that they should pay an additional fee and didn’t tell her because I planned on paying the fee myself, and by that I would be solving the problem without her knowing. My colleague again told my boss, and she got mad at me. I talked to her, and she repeated her words but didn’t mention anything about firing me or repercussions. But I noticed that she and everyone at the pharmacy are ignoring me. I really love working there and i respect my boss and love her so much. What should I do ?

This is my first official job after graduating. However, i worked while studying in a toxic environment for two years where hiding mistakes and trying to fix them yourself was done at a daily basis.

Leaving the keys in the door outside a pharmacy is a really serious mistake; it’s giving access to a bunch of controlled substances to anyone who wanders by! Humans make mistakes, but if it happened three separate times, you’ve really got to figure out what’s happening that’s allowing that. Two times would be bad! Three is … very bad. I’m not trying to berate you, but I can’t tell from your letter if you realize that so I’m flagging it.

The thing about not telling your boss that you messed up a fee and instead planned to pay it yourself  — when she specifically told you the thing she cares about most is that you tell her about mistakes — is also bad. Strategizing to deceive her is a big deal! She needs to know because there could be consequences she’ll need to deal with. (For example, off the top of my head, if that patient is charged the correct fee in the future and is confused about why she wasn’t charged it previously, people need to know what happened. It could also point to a need for more training, which is info she’s entitled to as your boss.)

It’s smart to identify that you’re carrying over behaviors from an old job where hiding mistakes was normal, but in this environment, it’s a dysfunctional behavior. Your boss sounds like someone who won’t respond harshly to mistakes themselves, but cover-ups could get you fired.

To make this right, talk to your boss and explain that you used to work somewhere where mistakes were handled very differently but you understand how important it is to be open and up-front about mistakes at this job, and you’re committed to doing that going forward (and say you know that you’ve handled it wrong up until now). But you have to really mean that — if you cover up another mistake, it’s likely to be impossible to come back from it.

Related:
how to rebuild your credibility after messing up at work

3. When I provide info to a coworker, he forwards it as-is without warning me

I have a coworker who is intermediating between me and other people (clients, our superiors, etc.). Several times now he has asked me for some information, and then followed-up with, “Okay, I’ll pass it on like that.”

This feels really weird to me. I was writing my messages to him specifically, and I assumed he would repackage that information accordingly (possibly with a more formal message, or also with other data), before informing others. If I knew my message would be going directly to another party from the beginning, I would have written it very differently! Am I off-base here?

It’s definitely not unusual to write differently for one audience than another; you might be much less formal with a peer than with a client or a manager, or you might use shorthand with the former that you wouldn’t use with the latter. That said, your coworker may be judging that what you provided works fine as-is for his purposes. Either way, now that you know he does this, just start assuming that it may get passed on exactly the way you say it and write it accordingly … or you can explicitly say, “If this needs to go to a client or higher-up, I’d like to express it a bit differently so please let me know if that’s the case.” (Or you can even ask that before responding.)

4. Are colorful tights okay for work?

I work in government and there is no real dress code in my office. People wear polos and tees or blouses and dresses. Some people wear jeans. I like to be a little more dressed up and was wondering if I wear a pair of lilac tights under a white sweater dress would this be appropriate for the office. What do you think?

Yes!

5. How can I reject a job offer and still be considered in the future?

I just got my first adult job offer after finishing school. The job itself is perfect — the people are nice, the hours and workload are better than 90% of similar positions I’ve seen in this field, the compensation and benefits are great. I even felt like I clicked well with my potential colleagues.

My problem is the location. The position is in a small town an hour away from a big city. The winters are known for being cold and gloomy, which I am normally okay with, except I would be moving by myself (I’m single with no children and no family in the area) and anticipate it could get very lonely quickly. I was originally planning to live in the city so I could more easily meet other young single professionals, but I don’t think the commute would be feasible with this type of work (I tested the drive when I flew in for my interview). I do know some of my potential colleagues from previous training, but one is my ex, and while we are on good terms, I don’t think it’s smart to have my main support system be my ex (especially if one of us starts dating someone new who isn’t comfortable with our friendship).

If I declined the job offer at this time, is there a way to make it clear I still love the company and would happily reapply if my social situation changes? (I would happily move to the small town where the job is at once I’m married/have a partner, especially if we have kids. It’s an ideal family town, but not so ideal for singles.) How would I communicate that now and in the future, and without burning bridges?

I wouldn’t make it about your social situation — that’s a little too much information. Instead you could say something like, “I really like the company and its work but after a lot of thought, I don’t think I’m ready to make the move right now. So I’m declining, but I’d love to leave the door open for the future if a move does become possible for me.”

You may also like:
{ 76 comments }

{ 76 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A reminder: We’ve had a recent increase in trolling here, and you can help me by NOT RESPONDING to it. Instead, please flag the comment for me (to do that, reply with a link, which will send your comment to moderation so I’ll see it) and I’ll take care of it. If you want, you can respond “reported” so people know it’s been dealt with and isn’t just being allowed to stand. But please do not engage. Thank you.

    Reply ↓
  2. SamiSalami*

    OP #1: While I’m probably 15 years younger than you, I have also had about a dozen mini-strokes/TIAs. Those can really do a number on your brain.
    For me, I can come to anger in less than a half second. Much faster than ever before.
    My anxiety can spike through the roof just as fast – unlike anything I had ever experienced.
    I recommend seeing your doctors: neurologist and a psycho-neurologist to begin with.
    Note that I’m not brushing off the way you’re treating your employees. It’s wrong. You must change what and how you work with people.

    Reply ↓
    1. CityMouse*

      I once worked for a manager who was terminally ill and in a significant amount of pain, but it still definitely did a number on those of us who were walking on eggshells around this person for years because we could have this intense disproportionate rage unleashed at us almost at random. More than one person quit or transferred because they couldn’t handle it (including me). This person was really intelligent and hard working but all anyone remembers is the yelling.

      Reply ↓
      1. perstreperous*

        I worked with one where we didn’t know he was terminally ill and in great pain … until I had enough of his bad temper and erratic behaviour and confronted him.

        It turned out that the company didn’t know either and he was immediately put on paid leave which, as it turned out, was only required for a few weeks.

        I’ve thought about this on and off for the past 25 years and have never managed to understand why someone would cover up an illness to that degree and keep coming to work (in the UK).

        Reply ↓
    2. Nodramalama*

      Yeah I think we really can’t discount the medical element. Which, as you said, is not an excuse at all. But it might explain some of what’s happening, and speaking with medical professionals may help than “don’t yell at people”

      Reply ↓
    3. Catwhisperer*

      +1, if there’s a medical element impacting your reactions then you definitely need to address it with your doctors. Your medical history may explain why you’re short tempered, but it’s your responsibility to manage your symptoms and not take them out on the people around you.

      It may also be worth looking into medical accommodations, if there are aspects of your work/work environment that can be changed to make things easier for you and reduce the likelihood of the scenarios that resulted in you yelling at your employees.

      Reply ↓
  3. CityMouse*

    I think thr first two letters are pretty similar that both LWs are experiencing pretty standard consequences for their actions and both of them, unless they reverse course on their behavior, will likely get fired for it, probably the second LW more immediately than the first.

    When you’ve messed up spectacularly, either by acting abusively or deceptively, the only way to even potentially get past it, is to genuinely put a stop to to the behavior and sustain that for a while. Once that reputation is gained and once that relationship is broken, it’s very hard to erase and there’s not an easy way to make it go away. You might never get away from that reputation, especially not when it’s a first impression at a job or with new employees.

    Reply ↓
  4. Sleeplesskj*

    #1: I’m your contemporary and resent you blaming your attitude on your age and generation. Your inflexibility, lack of empathy and unwillingness to adapt/learn is on you.

    Reply ↓
    1. pcake*

      I felt the same. I’m 67, but I don’t yell at people. If I’m frustrated, I take a break – read for a few minutes, take a short walk, just relax and breathe. It’s not fair to yell at people, and of course, they won’t trust you not to yell at them again. People ALL make mistakes or misunderstand something sometimes; they don’t deserve to be penalized imo.

      Btw, I’ve seen 30 year old managers who yell at employees in public. It’s not an age-restricted misbehavior.

      Reply ↓
    2. The Prettiest Curse*

      And OP#1 says they’re a “no emotions” type of person. I hate to break it to them, but anger is an emotion!

      OP1, develop a few strategies for breaking yourself out of a rage spiral when you feel like you’re getting ready to yell. Take a quick walk around the block, shut yourself into a room and swear (not loudly enough that everyone can hear) take it out on a stress toy – whatever works. Your goal is to redirect your brain out of focusing on what’s making you angry.
      Alternatively, go to a rage room once a month and smash things up – do whatever works for you.

      Reply ↓
      1. duinath*

        Yep, that stood out to me as well, anger is absolutely an emotion, and if you’re fully yelling in the workplace your emotions are out of control.

        Reply ↓
      2. D*

        And as for expressing emotions….a lot of people get in this “No emotions are okay but anger” or bottling up all emotions and anger is the one that demands attention more, but…Disappointment is an emotion, OP1.

        And disappointment from someone you respect is a LOT more motivating that anger from someone you don’t.

        Reply ↓
      4. I&I*

        Just so. And discomfort with your employees not ‘moving on’ is an emotion too, OP1. This entire situation is about your feelings.

        Which is fine in itself! People have feelings, you’re a person. We all have ’em. But they’re *your* feelings, which means managing them is your job, not your employees’.

        I’m going to challenge you to look at your framing differently. In describing your background, you aren’t describing low-emotion settings so much as settings where there’s a very strong hierarchy.

        In hierarchies, the ones at the top get to define what’s right and wrong – not because they have a special insight, but simply because the boss says what goes. If the boss has emotions, those emotions feel justified, right? Because everyone’s emotions always feel justified to them. So if a higher-up dumps their emotions down the chain, they can frame it to themselves as being clear on what’s right and wrong.

        The lower-downs never, ever experience it this way. Not in any setting or generation. They just aren’t allowed to tell the higher-ups that.

        What you’re seeing isn’t a generational or cultural divide. You’re just not in the army and your employees don’t have to say ‘Sir yes sir!’ however you act.

        (And honestly, if an army officer took his feelings out on his subordinates he’d be a bad officer. At least you’re in a situation where your employees can’t decide, ‘You know, I’m not gonna warn him about that sniper I just spotted.’)

        So try it this way: feelings are data, and you’ve given your employees data about you. I get the feeling that you’re used to very manly-coded ways of thinking, so I’ll put it in those terms: you’ve told them that you aren’t in control of your own behaviour, you expect more respect than you give, and that you aren’t reliable.

        The fact that you’re clearly annoyed they’re still wary also suggests your apology was it was no guarantee any of this would change. You’re still expecting them to do what they’re told because you say so, down to visible feelings. That’s not a very sincere apology, and they’ll have noticed that too.

        Expecting them to just ‘move on’ like they didn’t notice any of this is asking them to ignore the data. You want smart employees; smart people don’t ignore the facts, and the fact is you can’t ‘move on’ from something that isn’t changing. What they see is a situation where the boss can’t manage his feelings, and his plan for dealing with that is to give a verbal apology, expect it to create a complete reset, and do nothing about his emotional skills so that it’s pretty certain he’ll yell again. In other words, they have solid evidence that you think yelling is – maybe not okay, but a tolerable aspect of working life as long as it’s followed with the right form of words.

        It isn’t.

        What you need to do is find ways to stop yelling and treat them with genuine respect. When you do that they’ll have new evidence and change their opinions of you accordingly.

        If that’s medically impossible for you because of your strokes, you need to be realistic about that and change the command structure so you’re not in a position to let your emotional dysregulation affect the workplace. That’s hard, I know, but again, look at it factually: if you can’t do something, you can’t, and it’s more respectable to work with what you’ve got.

        Reply ↓
        2. bamcheeks*

          I really like your point about hierarchical organisations only validating the emotions of the senior people, to the extent that those people can frame them as non-emotions. Such a good way of thinking about how hierarchies function.

          Reply ↓
      5. MK*

        Also, I get the impression that this whole letter is about their feelings. They say they want them employees to knock it off and get the job done; what are they supposed to knock off, and is the job not getting done? If the employees are being rude and not working, fair enough, BUT I very much suspect that they simply treat him with civility instead of friendliness and doing their job without much. enthusiasm. Which is a natural consequence of his actions, and maybe he needs to get over it.

        Reply ↓
        1. Allonge*

          This is what I wanted to say – LW1, can you define what specifically you would like to see change in the way your team behaves / acts? Not doing the job is not ok. Being a bit jumpy? Part of the deal. Where is it?

          Also, LW1, I am sorry that you were raised in this manner and that despite severe medical issues and your age you still need to be working. None of that is a good excuse for yelling at other people but it sucks all the same.

          Reply ↓
      6. Irish Teacher.*

        Yes, from what they have said, it sounds like they are an overly-emotional person, not a no-emotion person. And honestly, this is a pattern I’ve noticed. The people who are most inclined to insist that they “don’t understand emotions” and that they “focus on the facts” and “don’t get offended easily” tend to be the most easily offended, to the point that they have to reframe any mistakes they’ve made as “the other person being offended” because it would hurt their feelings to have to admit that the other person is simply correcting a factual inaccuracy they made.

        I’m guessing the LW was raised to be ashamed about “showing emotion” and wants to sweep their emotional reactions under the carpet and forget they ever happened (which is understandable, especially if their reactions were caused by the strokes and they were not easily frustrated and angered before those) so it upsets them that their employees aren’t agreeing to pretend it never happened.

        But they do need to acknowledge that they are the one who is being emotional here. Otherwise any apology is going to come across as patronising and as “oh, I’m sorry I hurt your little feelings. I’m just so rational and unemotional that I don’t forget other people need things sugarcoated.” Which…would bother me more than the initial yelling as it is manipulative. They can’t really expect their employees to “move on” if they still don’t seem to understand what they have done. Apart from anything else, until they acknowledge that they are over-reacting emotionally and need to learn to be less emotional at work, the outbursts are likely to happen again.

        I don’t mean to be too harsh on the LW. My guess is that this is a mixture of the effects of the strokes and possibly an upbringing where they were taught to feel embarrassed about showing emotion and to deny their emotions.

        Reply ↓
    3. Ellis Bell*

      It’s definitely not some new fad, for people to object to being yelled at and spoken to in anger. Having a visceral reaction to that, is as old as being human. I wonder if tolerating abusiveness has been the situation of OP’s microclimate, rather than the condition of their whole generation. They mention the military and engineering, and while I can’t speak to either, it seems likely at least their family and their company (or their corner of the industry) might have been inclined to teach OP more about tolerating the abuse of superiors, rather than self-control around those you’re responsible for, but like all bad plans it will eventually be abandoned in favour of healthy systems. Another thing to consider is whether people got more sensitive after OP’s strokes (if OP is right about that being a contributing factor),… or OP’s ascent to management. If OP is really, truly lacking in fundamental skills to engage with other humans, they need to speak to a professional, either about their health, or about anger management.

      Reply ↓
    4. I Would Rather Be Eating Dumplings*

      The generational excuse is bunk, I agree.

      But having witnessed previously mild-mannered people survive strokes, I agree that they can really do a number on people and make some aspects of emotional management incredibly difficult; I actually have a lot of sympathy for OP there.

      Reply ↓
  5. ENFP in Texas*

    Not charging a patient for a fee could be considered a Kickback and can land the pharmacy in VERY hot water with federal agencies.

    I realized that a one-time mistake and just trying to pay it out of your own pocket likely would not cause anti-kickback regulation difficulties, but it is so very important that you understand why it matters that these regulations are followed.

    Reply ↓
    2. A*

      Pharmacy is a highly regulated industry and the reason the boss cares is because she is REQUIRED to care, for her license and the stores license. She is accountable for making sure things are running smoothly and they’re complying with all regulations, and mistakes happen but in the compliance world there’s a difference between ‘made a mistake, fixed it, documented it, and made efforts to avoid future errors’ and ‘pattern of sloppiness and covering up mistakes’.

      The problem isn’t making mistakes, everyone is human and all systems have to account for the human factor. But covering it up can lead to some real problems down the line and nobody likes when a serious issue is uncovered by an auditor instead of being neatly wrapped in a bow and solved before auditors come knocking

      Reply ↓
    3. Amira menadi*

      I am the employee here and i know this won’t help a lot but it was a product that was not covered by insurance and was a simple hydrating cream that can be acquired in supermarkets. And since the patient was our client i thought the pharmacy gifted it to him since we do that a lot. So it doesn’t cause any problem with the law. And since that incident i have successfully reported every move i made. The relationship with my boss and colleagues has improved significantly. I am so grateful that they let me improve rather than firing me.

      Reply ↓
      1. allathian*

        Thanks for the update, and I’m very happy for you. You changed your behavior and they changed theirs accordingly.

        Reply ↓
      4. Ipsedixitism*

        Good on you OP! You can rebuild the trust, and earn all the more respect from your boss and colleagues for doing so.

        I am always amazed at how much impact, long-term, a toxic workplace can have on us.

        Reply ↓
      6. Nah*

        Thank you for the update, and I’m so happy your work life has gotten much better!

        Making a quick note of your response for anyone searching op* or lw*

        Reply ↓
  6. Viette*

    LW #2 definitely calls for a clear-eyed evaluation of what consequences they’re expecting to get from admitting when they make a mistake, and whether those are actually worse that the consequences they’re actively experiencing from hiding their mistakes.

    If hiding the mistakes is just a habit, it’s a habit it’s time to knuckle down and break, or LW #2 will get fired eventually. If LW #2 is under the impression that the consequences for admitting a mistake are going to be worse than the consequences for hiding these mistakes then they’ve got to think about why! Did the current boss make that impression? Was it a previous boss? They can’t be treating the current boss like she’s some other person LW #2 knew before — as powerful as those old fears are, that’s never going to work.

    Reply ↓
    1. Saturday*

      Sometimes the consequences of telling the truth might be worse. But a person can’t be honest only when it’s easier for them.

      Reply ↓
    2. Jackalope*

      If the LW happens to be in therapy right now, this would be a really good topic to raise. If not, I’d recommend taking some time to figure out what the triggers are for wanting to cover up mistakes. When those moments come up, try to come up with some way to give yourself some space; take a minute to breathe, or to recite a short poem (or a prayer if you’re religious), or to count to 100, or whatever you find works. It sounds like your reactions are fear-based and/or emotional rather than thinking it through, and if this can give you some time to stop the knee jerk reaction telling you to cover everything up it may help you do better problem-solving.

      Reply ↓
  7. INF Vet*

    OP #1, I am a military Veteran (Infantry who saw active ground combat during GWOT). I now work in sales and have been a top preforming sales person at several companies.

    I had a FORMER manager who yelled/cussed me out over an expense report being late (less than a week) when I had been traveling back to back weeks twice in a row, with a week home between the two trips…. I had a new job lined up before getting done with the second trip.

    Civilian employment isn’t the military. People yell/scream when they have lost control (and then lose respect). Even if you are right, if you deliver the message like an asshole, no one is going to listen.

    if you want people to quit, keep doing what you are doing. Hiring/training is expensive and your bosses will notice.

    Reply ↓
  8. Cmdrshprd*

    OP5 at the risk of stating the obvious, have you thought of splitting the difference and living somewhere halfwayish between small town job is based at and big city? to be that would kinda be the best of both worlds.

    So 30 minutes from the job, and only 30 mins from the city? a benefit is the rent/housing would likely be cheaper. I live and work in the same city and my commute is still about 45 mins, and getting from one end of the city to the other takes 45/60 minutes.

    I say this because it sounds like you want the job just not the small town.

    Reply ↓
    1. D*

      Heck, if they’re on friendly terms with the ex, they could even just ask about local meetups for people in their peer group or friendly places to move–if the ex might date someone, then they haven’t settled down either and have found a way to make this work for a young single them!

      Reply ↓
    2. KateM*

      I also imagine that commute from “between” to “small town” is going to be pretty good in the sense of rush hour traffic mostly going the other way.

      Reply ↓
    3. Ellis Bell*

      Some people despise having roommates, but if OP was amenable to trying it, it might be a way to make sure they are around people during the winter.

      Reply ↓
    4. GammaGirl1908*

      In addition to splitting the difference, I have known people who have done this calculus, and decide that it makes more sense to drive a longer distance a couple of times to week to socialize than to drive the longer distance every day for work. For me, it would depend on how many days you have to go into the office, and whether you are remote or hybrid or something else, but I would consider where you are going on more days and do the math accordingly.

      Reply ↓
  9. Anna*

    OP #1, you describe yourself as no emotions, just getting the job done. If that is true and your yelling is a selected managerial strategy now you can re-evaluate its efficiency. If you instead are loosing your temper, your description of yourself is incorrect and you need too admit that you are very emotional. (There is nothing wrong with being an emotional person, but it helps to be honest if you want to address problems.)

    Reply ↓
    1. Spooz*

      Yeah, I was really taken aback by that assertion that OP is not emotional. Yelling is almost always a response to emotions! Anger is an emotion, for example. I think OP needs to evaluate their self-perception in this regard.

      Reply ↓
  10. Mad Scientist*

    #3, it sounds like they did warn you! But nevertheless, I’ve had this happen many times, and it’s annoying. Especially because my internal emails usually include links that clients can’t access / drafts that aren’t meant for external submissions. Just tell me you want me to draft an email for client XYZ and I’ll do it. Forwarding my internal emails to external people will only cause confusion.

    Reply ↓
    1. GammaGirl1908*

      Not only did the recipient indeed warn LW, but I think a lot of people intentionally make a point of hot-potatoing emails from experts because they don’t want to rephrase incorrectly or lose an important detail, or say something differently than was intended.

      Also, to be frank, as the recipient, I make a point of reading the entire email chain, even if only the top message really was intended for me, partly because it often includes important context, and partly because you gather a lot of information from the back-and-forth that people have when you aren’t involved.

      I say all that to say that you should assume that once your email leaves your desktop, it can go anywhere, even places where you did not intended to go. You should consider that when composing your emails.

      Reply ↓
  11. duinath*

    LW 2 I am not surprised your co-workers are less warm to you/avoiding you. When you make a series of mistakes of this magnitude, people start thinking you’re unreliable with your duties, but when you also hide your mistakes they start thinking you’re unreliable in your character.

    I would advise you to look at what is causing you to make these mistakes, and what is causing you to hide them, not to explain yourself but to make a plan.

    Stop yourself in your tracks. Figure out if it’s absent minded mistakes, rushed mistakes, or something else; and catch yourself at it.

    Same thing with the deception, while you are planning strategies to avoid making mistakes, make a plan for how to handle it if you *do*. Aim for the best, plan for the worst. Walk yourself through it.

    Bottom line, the best way to change the way people view you is to change the way you behave.

    Reply ↓
  12. Manager perspective*

    LW #2 – as a manager the most serious offense to me is dishonesty. Someone who can’t acknowledge and own up to mistakes is a much bigger deal than anyone making a mistake.

    I understand your history is a job where you had to cover things up, but your best move here is to show your manager you can acknowledge and own your mistakes.

    The mistakes may be serious. But an honest mistake will never be as a big a deal to me as trying to cover something up.

    Reply ↓
    1. CityMouse*

      I think it’s also worth mentioning that making errors is normal, but in a pharmacy errors could have very severe consequences. So if you feel you can’t trust someone in that kind of workplace that’s a very very big deal.

      Reply ↓
  13. glt on wry*

    I’ve been new to a job like OP2 after two years of toxicity under someone like OP1. For me at Old Job, the first reaction when I made a mistake was to want to obscure it because, unfortunately, I was used to getting yelled at any error as if it was the end of the world. This was a daily experience for everyone on the floor, so it was pretty ingrained and it was horrible.

    When I moved to New Job, first time my manager noticed a mistake from me (while I was kind of cowering), he told me ‘We don’t yell here.’ And I was able to breathe, acknowledge the error, resolve to learn and do better, and just keep being a good employee.

    OP2, I think you should trust your new environment and new boss and know that they want you to succeed. Because if you are successful, that transfers to the company. This will make a huge difference, and you’ll be able to have faith in yourself, too, and know that good employers aren’t the type to be out there just waiting for you to screw up so they can smack you down. Good employers like you and they want you to grow.

    I would tell your boss you’re sorry for your behaviour but explain where you’re coming from, explain your fear of screwing up, and then please just trust yourself and the new place and keep pushing for success, small and big. Take care and I wish you the best.

    Reply ↓
  14. Chairman of the Bored*

    LW1’s position of “CAN’T YOU SEE HOW UN-EMOTIONAL I AM WHILE I AM YELLING AT YOU?” is really remarkable.

    Reply ↓
  17. Sunny*

    OP2 – one line in your letter really stood out to me – “I really love working there and i respect my boss and love her so much.” This is a work relationship, and this actually sounds like you’ve maybe invested a bit too much emotion. I wonder if you’re also viewing her as a parent figure, which is another reason you’re hiding mistakes.

    It’s great to respect your boss and have warm feelings towards them – but “i love her so much” isn’t really appropriate in a workplace and you may want to step back and think about what it means to maintain professional boundaries. (To be clear, I don’t think you’re saying love in a creepy way, but just that it’s overly emotional for a workplace.)

    Reply ↓
  19. Feedback Fiend*

    LW1 – a few years ago in marriage counselling my ex asked “why can’t she just get over it all and move on”. The answer from the counsellor was that the reason I couldn’t just ‘get over it’ was because the ex had not yet taken any accountability for his actions or acknowledged the hurt that he had caused. While this is a work situation, the answer is just the same. LW1 needs to take accountability for the inappropriateness of their actions, and acknowledge they caused hurt to their employees. Only then will the employees be able to start to move past that, however that will also depend on the future behavior of LW1.

    Reply ↓
  20. Seal*

    #1 – As someone who’s had more than my share of abusive managers who regularly yelled at me, I’m not surprised your employees are holding it against you. Getting yelled at is humiliating. Every manager who yelled at me instantly lost my respect and I never felt comfortable around them again.

    Also, you don’t have to be “in touch” with a generation to treat its members with respect.

    Reply ↓
  21. Kella*

    OP1, you describe yourself as having no emotions but yelling is an expression of anger, frustration and/or a desire to make others uncomfortable to spur them into action. If it weren’t any of those things, you would’ve said the same thing at a normal volume and it would’ve been equally effective, with less backlash on you.

    Because you value logic, that means that either a. you are having an emotion and using an inappropriate behavior to take it out on your employees b. you are counting on your employees having a negative emotional reaction to your yelling to motivate them (which is abusive) or c. you are arbitrarily using a tactic that has no value at all and you’ve discovered has significant drawbacks.

    Lastly, beware viewing other people’s reactions to you as being “emotional” and viewing your own emotions as objective truth. Other people are also full complex humans with complex reasons behind their actions, just as you have.

    Reply ↓
  22. Vimes*

    OP #1
    Has temper tantrums at work
    Talks about his “lack of emotion”

    Did you forget that anger is an emotion? Excessive logic is not a problem you have. The problem you have is poor emotional control combined with arbitrarily defining whatever you do as logical, not because it actually is logical, but because you did it and you want to think of yourself as a rational person.

    Recommend either taking some management courses or, y’know, therapy.

    Reply ↓
  23. Glen*

    Interesting to see LW1 bring up the military in this context given their age. Remember how American soldiers in nam dealt with leaders they didn’t like? It went a fair way beyond not warning them about a sniper. Also interesting that they think their employees should “get over it” – a talent that a grown adult who apparently regularly loses their temper to the point of yelling clearly lacks. Consider, LW1, that when you “can’t get over” things, you can literally and unilaterally deprive people of their ability to make a living, and you’re not giving them any reason to expect you to exercise that authority in a thoughtful of reasonable way. They don’t have that power over you. People who lose their temper to the point of shouting are also physically threatening – it’s so far out of whack with what we expect from a minimally socially competent adult that people quite reasonably will become concerned about what other things you may do. The reason your employees can’t get past it isn’t because they’re soft and weak and can’t handle a bit of harsh feedback, it’s because you are literally a threat to them and their families.

    Reply ↓
  24. Feedback Fiend*

    LW4 – please wear the most colourful tights and other clothing that you can! As someone who worked in government for 20 years, pretty much every workplace I’ve ever seen can do with some brightness.
    As long as your clothing is covering you appropriately, is suitable for your role function, and is in keeping with the general dress standard of the rest of the office (Eg: don’t wear jeans if everyone else is in business attire) then wear whatever you are comfortable in.
    I know someone who regularly wears glittery tulle skirts to work (office environment) in a govt department!

    Reply ↓
  25. I should really pick a name*

    I know that I am out of touch with the younger generation, having grown up in the late 60’s and early 70’s

    Did you lose the ability to learn new things after that point?

    The 70s were 45 years ago. You’ve had lots of time to pick up on new norms. I’m getting the impression that you’re aware of new norms, you just don’t like them.

    Reply ↓
    1. CityMouse*

      I also hate this generational excuse because it just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. My Dad grew up in the 50s and 60s, saw his profession change significantly (medicine) and wasn’t in the habit of yelling at people at work.

      Reply ↓
  26. Coverage Associate*

    Do engineers have continuing education in competency? This is becoming a bigger deal in the legal profession, ongoing professional training in recognizing impaired competency in ourselves and our colleagues due to mental or physical illness, addiction, dementia, etc.

    The line to actually force someone to stop working is pretty high. Everyone is different in these things, and it’s fine if a lawyer can be competent only 4 hours a day instead of 8 due to injury or illness, as long as they are not working during the part of the day they are ill.

    OP recognizes changes following strokes. I’m not saying that they’re no longer fit to work, but I know that these things are different for everyone. For example, I don’t work well with repeated disruptions, and if I had a condition that forced me to change positions several times per hour, I would have to change my area of law or do something else to be a good lawyer after a physical change. Or more common examples are different people react differently to a few nights of disrupted sleep or after a couple missed meals.

    My point is, OP has had a physical experience that is adversely affecting their work. They need to either adjust themselves or adjust the work. I’m not a healthcare professional, but I know that they usually double down on all the normal advice for things like this: regular sleep and exercise, nutritious meals. Or OP could adjust the work by arranging for reduced management responsibilities or hours etc.

    If there’s a fumble, you don’t keep trying to run the play called at the snap. You adjust. Something has changed with OP. How will OP adjust?

    Reply ↓
  27. londonedit*

    OP1: you say ‘knock it off and get over it’ to children squabbling with their siblings. You don’t say it to your colleagues, who may be ‘the younger generation’ but they’re professional adults who have the right to be respected and not shouted at in the workplace.

    I have every sympathy for your health problems, but if you’re yelling at people then it’s on you to firstly do what you can to mitigate that, and secondly to apologise when it happens. It is not on your colleagues to ‘knock it off and move on’ – shouting should never be acceptable at work (unless you’re yelling ‘FIRE’ or ‘GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THAT DANGEROUS THING’ or whatever). You’re in the wrong here, and it’s not about ‘the younger generation’. No one should put up with being shouted at, and they especially shouldn’t put up with being shouted at by someone who then shows absolutely no remorse and instead expects them to just get over it.

    Reply ↓
  28. General von Klinkerhoffen*

    LW5 says, “I don’t think the commute would be feasible with this type of work (I tested the drive when I flew in for my interview)” and I think this is the perfect thing to say when withdrawing. It means that future opportunities with the same company, and/or LW’s own circumstances, would only need to be slightly different for a great match.

    Reply ↓
  29. Frosty*

    LW3: I think whether this is fine or not depends very much on details.

    If your answer contains confidential info that should not travel outside the company and he forwards it to clients, for example, you should probably talk about that with him. Or maybe mark that info specifically as something that should not be sent on.

    If you are just annoyed and think that he’s not adding value as an intermediary, you should probably let it go.

    Reply ↓

Leave a Comment

Before you comment: Please be kind, stay on-topic, and follow the site's commenting rules.
You can report an ad, tech, or typo issue here.

Subscribe to all comments on this post by RSS