coworker asks someone to get him food every day, new hire took the “fork in the road,” and more

by Alison Green on March 4, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Coworker asks someone to get him food from the cafeteria every day

I work as a consultant for a company and have an older male colleague (in his late 40s) who has mobility issues due to his weight. He sits almost all day and arrives very early before anyone else arrives. He cannot walk more than a few feet without pain and asks me (or another colleague) to grab meals for him at the cafeteria almost daily. He gives people money for his food, which is always junk food, and is very apologetic and appreciative.

Most people, including myself, bring packed meals and rarely eat in the cafeteria. It’s very awkward being put on the spot, especially since everyone is polite and usually willing to help anyone. I’m a classic “people pleaser”, which is something I really need to work on. My work crosses paths occasionally with this colleague so I don’t want any bad blood impacting my interactions with him. I don’t know him very well and he is not a “work friend.” Even if he were, it is still an uncomfortable situation.

While I sympathize with his chronic pain issues, I’m fed up and not his personal assistant! His boss often travels overseas and is rarely in the office. Due to my role, I work for an outside vendor with an unrelated HR team. He’s not in a supervisory role over anyone here, including me. If he needs a disability accommodation, that’s between him and his manager. How do I handle this colleague tactfully and avoid being offensive?

“Oh, I’m sorry — I’m not going to the cafeteria today!”

That’s it.

If he asks if you’d mind going anyway and you don’t want to, you can say, “I’m sorry, I can’t — I’m swamped.” He’s likely to stop asking pretty quickly.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s an outrageous imposition that he asks people for help. There are probably people who don’t mind and who see it as a kindness they’re happy to offer, and it’s reasonable for anyone to say no if it’s too much of an inconvenience on any given day or in general. I think the issue here is more that you don’t feel comfortable saying no than that he’s asking in the first place! Kindly saying you can’t do it should take care of it.

2. New hire took the “fork in the road” and now we might not be able to hire a replacement

I’m hoping to get a sanity check from you on a situation that just happened on my team. I know you generally say employees have to do what’s in their best interests, and sometimes burning a bridge is worth it, but this whole situation feels like more than just the “cost of doing business.” I work for a large federal agency in the D.C. area. Unlike many federal employees who are seeing their work slashed and burned, the team I lead has been launched from complete obscurity to being very high-visibility and is working incredibly hard. We used to be a strict 40-hour week team and now we routinely have team members staying past 8 or 9 pm to get all of our tasks done.

During this time, we put out an internal job posting to hire a senior individual contributor position. We did interviews and selected someone who seemed pretty qualified, though not “knock it out of the park” qualified relative to the other candidates. He accepted and started working on the team recently. Within a couple of days after he started, our HR informed us this employee had taken the deferred resignation option, aka Elon Musks’s “fork in the road,” and his last day would be about two weeks after starting. The employee never informed us of any of this, and what makes me particularly peeved is that he sent in his deferred resignation several days before interviewing with us and accepting the position.

All of this would fall under “not cool, but I guess we’ll just deal with it” except for one additional wrinkle: people who leave under the deferred resignation program can’t get their jobs backfilled. (Actually, my agency has to give up a billet for every single person that opted in, even if they don’t actually leave.) My supervisor is fighting to make the case that the unit he belonged to when he first resigned should be the one losing a billet, rather than our unit that he was in when he signed the final paperwork, but we don’t know how that’s going to turn out. We also don’t know, even if we can fill the position, whether we can just call up our second choice and make them an offer, or whether the rules will require us to go through a lengthy re-posting and re-interviewing process. And all the while, my team of junior employees are working their asses off without the help of a senior who could relieve some of the pressure.

Either way, there’s nothing I can do, but am I off-base in thinking this was much more egregious than a standard situation of a new hire backing out? I feel that at least, the employee should have told us he opted in to the deferred resignation when he received the offer, so that we could have made an informed decision.

Yeah, that’s pretty crappy. In fairness, it’s possible that he wasn’t confident that the deferred resignation email would be honored, since there’s still plenty of doubt about that. And he might have figured that at this point he doesn’t owe any particular courtesy to an employer that’s treated its workforce so disrespectfully (and … there’s something to that). But yeah, he screwed your team to get something for himself (which I wouldn’t say if he didn’t put you in a position where you might not be allowed to re-fill the job).

However, it’s far, far more absurd that HR didn’t tell you before the hire was finalized! That’s relevant info that you should have been made aware of, and it’s either by extreme incompetence or deliberate design that they didn’t.

3. Should I tell my employees that someone assaulted me?

Content warning for sexual assault

I wish I did not have to ask this. I live in a very small community with a staff of about 10. I am a sexual assault survivor with CPTSD and anxiety disorder from that experience growing up. Unfortunately, this weekend I had a stranger break into my apartment and attempt to rape me. While the assailant was caught and arrested and I was able to fight them off (and I’m in therapy), I am understandably very shaken up and this has opened some new wounds. Is it appropriate for me to tell my employees what happened in general terms and ask them to be careful when approaching me, especially from behind over the next few weeks as this is very triggering for me? This was all over our local media and some of them already know, and I have taken the next few days off of work because of the event.

How awful, I’m so sorry. Yes, you can absolutely share with your employees what happened in general terms so they have context for the requests you’re making (requests that will be completely understandable to anyone once they know why). “Broke in and attempted to attack me” will carry enough relevant information if you’re more comfortable with that wording.

I hope you heal as quickly as possible.

4. The lack of clarity of “Sunday at midnight”

I’ve always had a pet peeve as a student when I would get assignments that were due on, say, “Sunday night at midnight.” Does that mean you need my paper by Saturday night going into Sunday morning, or do you need my paper by Sunday night going into Monday morning? Because midnight is the start of the next day! I never asked because nobody else seemed to have an issue, but more importantly, it would only be a real issue if you weren’t completing your assignment in a timely manner. I always made a point to turn in my assignments at least 48 hours before a deadline anyway, so there was no reason to bring it up.

Now, I’m a grad student who’s a teaching assistant for a professor, and I’m responsible for writing the homework assignments for his undergrads. I tell students, “Submit this assignment by Sunday at 11:59 pm.” I feel this is much clearer than “Sunday at midnight,” and if a student were to, say, procrastinate on a lab report, a 60-second difference will not matter.

The professor, however, said that I should keep the “Sunday at midnight” vernacular because it’s industry standard (not just in our field, but in others). The actual amount of days given to complete the assignment was always correct, but I didn’t say anything because I feel like my concerns will be dismissed as mere semantics. It’s one of those weird little things where you feel silly for wanting to argue more for it, but you also feel frustrated because that means the other person is being equally silly for arguing against it. So then you just don’t argue to keep the peace but still have unresolved frustration. How common is “Sunday at midnight” in the working world? What should it mean?

It’s incredibly common!

And I am right there with you on it; you’re essentially giving a deadline that’s a day earlier than what you really mean and causing unnecessary confusion. The real deadline is Sunday at 11:59 pm. I think people are willing to live with it, though, because it’s not going to result in a student being late; if someone takes it literally, they’d be a day early instead. That’s still not particularly fair or clear … but if assignments were late as a result of it, they’d be more moved to change it.

5. Dealing with someone who’s in denial about their unreliable email

A physician I see regularly is having problems with her email. I’m sure that the problems are on her end because (a) they happen repeatedly, (b) they happen with no one else in my contact list, and (c) other people (like my occupational therapist) also have problems with her email communications. Sometimes she doesn’t receive emails that I’ve sent her, but she also sometimes says she’s sent me an email that never arrived in my inbox. (I’ve checked for these emails thoroughly). I’m not sure if the problem is that she’s very loose in how she handles her email or if there’s some technical issue on her end. In any case, it’s causing me real problems from time to time.

When I’ve brought this problem up, she’s been resistant to the possibility that the problem is on her end. She either shrugs off the missing email or implies that I somehow missed it or inadvertently deleted it — but I know, from ongoing exploration, as well as others’ communications with her, that the issue is definitely on her side. It feels quite rude to say to a professional, “I know that this problem might seem like a one-off, or like it might be a technical glitch on my end, but I have been tracking patterns for a while now, and I can tell you with confidence that some of your emails are not arriving and that you are often not getting the emails I send, and it is causing Big Problems. Could you fix it?” In some ways, I would prefer a simple workaround that acknowledged the situation without demanding that she address it: something like, “Since, as we’ve discussed, my emails don’t always make it to you, is there another way I could be corresponding just to make sure we’re communicating reliably? If I have a question, would you rather I call and leave a voice message with the question, or email you and then call to confirm receipt?” Does either of these seem likeliest to work, or most appropriate?

Sure, that’s appropriate.

But note at least for half the problem (the half where she misses your emails), you don’t even need to sort it out with her ahead of time. You can simply assume email isn’t a reliable method of reaching her and just switch to calling instead (or emailing and then calling to confirm receipt). The piece that you have a lot less control over is when she thinks she’s emailed you but hasn’t — so I’d focus on that piece of it. For example: “For whatever reason, your emails don’t reliably reach me. I don’t want to miss important messages from you, so can we switch to a different communication method, like texts or phone calls?”

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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A reminder: We’ve had a recent increase in trolling here, and you can help me by NOT RESPONDING to it. If you engage, you are ensuring that troll will reappear. Instead, please flag the comment for me (just reply with a link, which will send your comment to moderation so I’ll see it).

    A change to previous requests: please don’t reply “reported.” Enough people report these comments that you can trust it will be dealt with. Do not engage at all. Thank you.

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  2. MSD*

    Given the unnecessary information that the lunch is usually junk food it seems like the coworker’s unwillingness is more about their cowaorker’s size rather than inconvenience. I wonder if they’d feel the same if the coworker’s mobility difficulties were due to something other than weight.

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      1. Wayward Sun*

        I had that thought too. People who develop mobility issues often gain weight as a result, because you inevitably end up more sedentary.

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        1. Not Australian*

          Thank you for making this point. Able-bodied folks – including members of the medical profession who should know better – seem to think that ‘if you were more active you’d soon lose all that weight’ is sound advice, whereas sometimes the weight piles on simply *because* it’s impossible to be more active.

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        2. Productivity Pigeon*

          +100!

          His weight should not factor into this.

          It’s fine to not want to help someone with an onerous task, for whatever reason.

          But I urge OP to consider whether or not they would’ve helped out if the coworker wasn’t fat.

          That will tell them a lot about themselves and how they look at the world.

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      2. Myrin*

        I was put off by the “junk food” comment as well but regarding this point, I assumed the coworker had actually told OP that his difficulties stem from his weight (I’ve had people say that to me so it was my automatic assumption, although I obviously could be wrong).

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      3. Overthinking It*

        I don’t like hearing the judgement on the type of food he orders. That colors the way I hear the statement that “he sits all day.” Well, he has mobility problems, and it sounds like he is fortunate enough to have a job that doesn’t conflict with that.

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    3. Pumpkin cat*

      Yah, letter writer #1 does not sound like an especially nice person. I hope she never ends up getting fat and needing help herself

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      1. Allonge*

        OP sounds like they were never allowed to say no without a ‘good’ reason and so OP is looking for a ‘good’ reason, here.

        OP – you don’t need to feel judgmental about someone before you stop going out of your way to help them. I would guess some people do go to the cafeteria every day, maybe suggest to your colleague that they are better placed to help with this?

        As for you, you get to say you are not ok to do this regularly. You will not feel awesome – denying someone help is rarely a good feeling – but you are also not feeling awesome now.

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    6. allathian*

      Indeed, I had the same feeling.

      That said, I find it very difficult to ask coworkers I’m not particularly close to (friends and family are easier) for favors and always think it’s odd that some people do it as a matter of course. I’ll gladly accept if someone offers, though.

      The kind thing to do for people who do go to the cafeteria would be to ask the coworker with mobility issues if they need anything.

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      1. Wayward Sun*

        I think it’s a cultural thing. In some cultures you just ask and the person is free to say no. In other cultures you don’t ask unless you’re pretty sure the answer will be yes, and people don’t say no without serious justification. Different parts of the US are different in this regard.

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        1. yvve*

          it does seem, at the very least, *inconvenient* as a long-term plan. Like, it’s one thing if this is a temporary issue like a broken leg, or if most people go to the cafeteria daily and you can ask them to grab something on their way back, but it seems like in this case he’s having to ask people who are not currently on their way to the cafeteria, daily, to see if they are going and if so can they bring him something– seems annoying for all parties!

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          1. Myrin*

            Yeah, it seems like a bit of a “Everybody hates this!” kind of situation (or at least has the possibility to become one; there’s probably a combination of personalities where this would work no problem from both sides but I don’t know how likely it is to find something like that, especially in the workplace).

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        2. allathian*

          That’s true, but I’m Finnish, and Finnish culture in general is very direct, at least when it comes to saying no to things you don’t want to do. The concept of saving face exists in all human cultures, but it’s much less important here than in many others.

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    7. yvve*

      yea, very much so. It’s not your responsibility to go get food for a coworker regardless of reason for the difficulty walking. If it’s an accommodation issue, then it should probably be worked out more officially than “ask coworkers to go get food for me”. But that is all entirely irrelevant to what disability he has and why– treat this exactly like you would if he were in a wheelchair and had trouble getting to the cafeteria

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    8. Georgina Sands*

      Agreed. Why are so many self-described “people-pleasers”, well, not very nice people? I’ve spotted this correlation before with other “people-pleasers”, which seems a bit ironic because of the name. There’s nothing wrong with saying no, but there is in the way OP is talking about this guy.

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      1. Nebula*

        I suppose it’s because ‘people-pleasing’ i.e. attempting to avoid even the slightest amount of social friction, can result in building up this kind of resentment over stuff that’s a total non-issue. If the LW felt able to just say no without it turning into this whole thing, maybe they wouldn’t be coming up with all these implicit reasons as to why the coworker doesn’t deserve their help (which was the subtext I got from this).

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      2. that hertz*

        I think part of it is that despite the name, the motivation isn’t neecessarily to ‘please’ other people by genuinely doing things to make them happy. It could be about upholding the people-pleaser’s self-image as a nice/helpful/good person, or avoiding any kind of disapproval/disappointment from others, or feeling obliged to never say no for some reason. The people-pleaser ends up feeling like they HAVE to act like this (when in fact it may be entirely self-imposed, or something resulting from their upbringing or whatever that’s completely unrelated to the situation at hand) and they get resentful and mad. And then they end up coming up with reasons why the person they’re dealing with is bad and wrong for making these demands of them, when in fact nobody actually demanded anything.

        (Yes, I did date a chronic people-pleaser for many years, why do you ask?)

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      3. C*

        Because being a people-pleaser is a negative trait – the phrase suggests you put people’s requests above your needs, even if you really don’t want to and it inconveniences you.

        If you just like helping people out when you can, but you’re comfortable saying no if you can’t or if you just don’t want to, you’re not a people-pleaser. You’re just a person who sometimes helps other people.

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    9. Bob*

      If OP had not mentioned the coworkers weight you would all be shaming her for not helping a disabled person. Clarity is ABSOLUTELY required in these letters, or what’s the point?

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      1. C*

        There’s a big difference between “My coworker has mobility issues possibly due to his weight” and “He has mobility issues definitely due to his weight and he only eats junk food”.

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        1. Productivity Pigeon*

          No. There’s not.

          It’s fine if the OP doesn’t want to help their coworker but it’s not up to them to police someone else’s choices.
          A fat person eating junk is entitled to just as much respect and consideration as thin person.
          It is NOT someone else’s place to judge and try to improve someone else’s health for them.

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      2. Night Yorb*

        I’m sorry – is your argument here “OP #1 ‘ABSOLUTELY’ needed to let people know that their coworker is overweight and eats junk food in order to prevent people from thinking that he deserved the same degree of kindness as a thin disabled person would”? Because I’m honestly not sure how else to read this comment.

        The coworker’s weight and diet are absolutely not relevant. How one should treat one’s coworkers has nothing to do with how much those coworkers weigh or what foods they eat. It’s perfectly fine for the OP not to be able to go to the cafeteria for their coworker and to politely decline to do so. It’s not fine to be judgy about his weight and diet, which are, again, neither relevant nor any of the OP’s business.

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      3. Irish Teacher.*

        It doesn’t make any difference whether it is due to weight or disability though. The person with a disability wouldn’t be any more deserving of her help.

        Yeah, clarity matters, but it’s not like she’d be any less entitled to say no if his reason for needing help was any different.

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      4. knitted feet*

        I mean, no? A disabled person is disabled no matter what the cause (and people are often very over-confident in thinking they can tell the cause by looking at the person). It literally doesn’t matter here whether the guy is thin or fat, whether he’s asking for fries or vegetable soup. The problem is that he’s asking LW to spend her time fetching him stuff when she wouldn’t be going to the cafeteria otherwise, and she wants to stop, and that’s OK. He can ask someone who is going there anyway, or he can find a way to get there himself, or he can bring meals from home.

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  3. Happy meal with extra happy*

    I find it disheartening the references to “he sits almost all day” and that his lunches are “always junk food”. The only relevance/reasoning I can see for including this information is to imply that he’s less deserving of sympathy and help because it’s his fault, and if he just moved more and ate “better”, he wouldn’t need as much help.

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    1. Pumpkin cat*

      I’m fat and have trouble getting around. But the joint issues predate the fatness, in fact they were a big cause of the fatness (getting disabled at an earlyish age led to some emotional eating and also a lot less movement!). Props to this fat dude though, asking coworkers to go get his junky lunches and bring them back to him (though we only know they’re “junk” from the LW, they could be something normal like a sandwich that the LW considers junky). I never eat junk food in front of anyone as a fat person. For all anyone knows, I eat green smoothies and bean dishes 24/7.

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      1. allathian*

        Yeah, same. I can’t say that being fat hasn’t made my mobility issues worse, it absolutely has, but I’ve had mobility issues my whole life, as in I was almost exactly 24 months old when I finally learned to walk unaided.

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        1. KateM*

          Okay, now you are scaring me, because our youngest was 22mo (and 12mo when learning to crawl)! Were there any other indicators? Say, in next years? At 7yo that kid seems mobile enough…

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          1. Jill Swinburne*

            If at 7 your kid is fine, it doesn’t sound like there’s much to worry about – obligatory I Am Not A Doctor but I read allathian’s comment to mean their mobility issues were the reason they were delayed in learning to walk, not that it happened later in life.

            Some kids just aren’t that bothered about changing up how they do things, but of course see a paediatrician if you’re panicking!

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          2. Emmy Noether*

            I can look up the exact reference later if you want it, but I remember there being a study referenced in Emily Oster’s “Cribsheet” that there is no statistical correlation between mobility milestones as a baby and later athletic ability. Logically, I’d expect mobility issues in a baby could lead to delayed milestones, but most of the time it’s not that. Unless your paediatrician has indicated it’s cause for concern, I wouldn’t worry.

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          3. Anony today*

            Also not a doctor, similar story to allathian. While I can’t speak for them, in my case it definitely had a genetic component, hence the early onset. So there’s at least a chance that it would have cropped up in the family beforehand. In that respect I also want to underline both Jill’s and Emmy’s comment.
            For contrast: I noticed early that I would twist ankles a lot more often than my peers for example, though I bounced back fairly okay as a kid. My parents unfortunately did not take that seriously and I’m dealing with the fallout now.
            I concur with the advice not to worry about the age when they learned to crawl. In addition to a talk with your kids’ paediatrician it helps of course to keep an eye on overall patterns and to take your kid seriously when they refuse to do seemingly easy physical activities. They might not have the confidence or skill yet, which tends to vanish as their abilities improve. If there is indeed an underlying issue and they react to physical discomfort they can’t really pinpoint or explain, hearing them out without panicking will do most of the heavy lifting.

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          4. Pennyworth*

            There are medical issues, and there is also overfeeding. I am fat, my mobility is 100% affected by my weight and how much exercise I do. My weight is affected by what I eat, and I enjoy junk food and carbs, even though I know they are not healthy and try to avoid them. My neighbor is in despair over her grandchild who cannot walk at 20 months because his mother hands him packets of cookies to eat. He just can’t get his weight off the ground.

            The work colleague who sits at his desk all day might need to use a mobility aid, so he can move around the office, and go to the cafeteria. Being stuck at his desk must be very depressing.

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          5. C*

            IIRC, 24 months is the late end of normal. Anyway, as they always say, ‘early walker, late talker’. (Or the other way around.) Children often focus on one skill at a time when they’re toddlers.

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      2. Xeniati*

        Absolutely. As another fat person with mobility issues (unrelated to the fatness, in my case, though I know most people assume otherwise), I was impressed by this guy’s willingness to ask people for help. It’s hard to do, especially at work and especially when you know your coworkers are going to be judging you for what you eat. (For thin people reading this: I have never met a fat person who isn’t acutely aware of how much their thin coworkers judge them for eating anything but the blandest of salads. I guarantee OP’s coworker knows.) Doesn’t mean anyone is obliged to assist, of course, but all anyone has to do is politely decline.

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    2. RCB*

      Yes, the judging was BAD in that letter, and as a fellow junk foodee I want to add some more context: From appearances I am relatively healthy looking, I am pretty normal weight, but my diet is TERRIBLE, I eat a lot of junk food. Why? It doesn’t make me gag, I can actually eat it. I have some food issues and oftentimes normal food just makes me gag so much that I can’t eat much of it, or I’ll have absolutely zero appetite for anything real like I can get 1 or 2 bites of a cheeseburger and be disgusted and not eat more, but then be able to eat 6 cupcakes, a bag of doritos, and lots more. If it weren’t for “junk food” I wouldn’t get enough calories in a day, so don’t judge people by what they eat, sometimes it’s all they CAN eat.

      And please, I don’t need advice on what may help me with my eating issue, I am not here to get diagnoses, I have a handle on my own situation and understand my own parameters.

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      1. Jill Swinburne*

        I always remember this dietician I knew who made this amazing caramel sauce, which she said they used to make for some of the geriatric (I think) patients at the hospital she once worked in to serve with ice cream. I was really surprised (cream?! Sugar?! Butter?! That’s not healthy!) until I clicked that it was about getting calories and easily used energy in, and nutrition in certain circumstances is a secondary goal.

        We’ve all been fed (lol) so many black-and-white rules about food that I think a lot of people fail to grasp that there are nuances.

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      2. Grizabella the Glamour Cat*

        I hear you, and I get it!

        I think my food issues are probably less severe than yours, but I do have issues such that a lot of foods other people find delicious are inedible as far as I’m concerned, because they literally gross me out.

        I struggled for years trying to train myself to eat like a “normal” person, and it was… not fun. There came a point where I gave myself permisdion to just eat the things I actually enjoy instead of constantly trying to force down stuff that makes me gag. As a result, life is much more pleasant. Also, I am perfectly healthy – go figure! X-D

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  4. Person from the Resume*

    I agree with LW#1, but I also agree with AAM’s advice.

    If I’m not going to the cafeteria for myself, I don’t want to make a special trip as a favor to someone else. I’d personally feel bad about saying no, but I totally would say “no.”

    I’m not a person who thinks “it doesn’t hurt to ask.” If I’m asking for help I’ve often swallowed my pride and agonized about it so I feel bad about saying “no.” But I’ve learned that “it doesn’t hurt to ask” people do not agonized about this and just ask without anxiety but also usually accept “no” without drama.

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    1. JR17*

      I agree that it’s reasonable not to make regular special trips to the cafeteria as a favor for someone you aren’t close to when you aren’t going yourself. But I’m not at all clear that the coworker knows OP#1 isn’t going to the cafeteria for her own lunch. It sounds like she hasn’t done anything except say yes when asked?

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    2. Ellis Bell*

      Yes, I’m very worried about people who don’t think they’re allowed to say no! Sure, you’re not just going to bark “no” in his face, but “sorry I can’t” will do, or simply say you’re not headed there, have too much to carry, you’re busy etc etc. Maybe this is something for OP to practice? This can’t be the only question the OP gets asked they need to decline.

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      1. Marion Ravenwood*

        Having been there myself, I think this is something that is really hard to unlearn for those who are people-pleasers or have been conditioned to respond that way – the fear that even if you say “no” nicely you’ll get an overly negative reaction. If OP1 is a recovering people-pleaser, they might still be in the stage where saying “no” to this person, especially after so long saying “yes”, is going to backfire, even though that might be totally illogical. Although it doesn’t seem like OP1 is the only person they’re asking this, so chances are they’d move onto someone else. But I totally understand why they’re struggling with it.

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    3. Helvetica*

      Yes, I also thought a clear and honest answer is “Sorry, I have my own lunch and won’t be going to the cafeteria.” That’s literally it.

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  5. Retirednow*

    Re the Sunday midnight question: I taught university for many years and we always used the day of the week and 11:59 PM. Midnight is not an industry standard.

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    1. Banana Pyjamas*

      Yep. At my current school everything that is not turned in in class is due at 11:59. When I went to a different school online, all assignments were due at 11:59. I think it’s very normal and way more clear.

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    4. Trick or Treatment*

      Same, both my workplace and the university I am enrolled at always use 11:59 for deadlines. Clear communication is easy, so why not do it.

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    5. Always Science-ing*

      Agreed. I’ve spent my entire career in academia – and am a stickler for clear language. I’ve always used 11:59 PM. It avoids any potential for misunderstanding.

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    6. Elf*

      When running grant programs I would advertise the closing time as 11:59pm Sunday; in the system I would have the closing time being 12:01am Monday. This avoided any issues with someone trying to submit at 11:59:30 because ‘it’s still 11:59!’ when the form closes on the minute (eg 11:59:00) and avoided any potential snafus with midnight (but wasn’t so much time as to give anyone an unfair advantage).

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    7. Jill Swinburne*

      This makes me nostalgic for my student years before online submitting, when our lecturers would go “your assignment is due on Monday at 5pm. As an aside, I won’t collect them until I start work at 9am on Tuesday so if your assignment is there then I will assume you submitted it on time *shrug*”

      Reply ↓
      1. Elf*

        Haha! The joys of ‘as long as I get it into the slot before 9am when they empty them all out it’ll be fine!’
        And for me it was only a 2% penalty per day, not 10% like I see now!

        Reply ↓
      2. Disappointed With the Staff*

        I studied engineering and 7:59am or 8:59am was a common explicit deadline.

        A friend who studied architecture said that would have been torture for them because architecture had a culture of working on things until the very last minute so an early morning deadline would mean one extra all-nighter for most of the class. The architecture industry at large often has 5pm Friday deadlines for tenders etc, and a few terrible firms that strongly prefer that junior staff work excessive hours.

        Reply ↓
    8. AcademiaNut*

      I went to university in the day of paper assignments, and the hand-in time was always sometime during office hours. I now work in a field that has submissions with strict deadlines, and the time given is usually during business hours of the office that’s receiving stuff, so any major tech issues happen when IT is in the office. Deadlines are specified with the time, date and time zone.

      So I don’t see anything wrong with saying that the hand-in deadline is 6 pm, or 9pm, or something simple and unambiguous. Or, if you’re really evil, 9am.

      Reply ↓
    9. anonprof*

      Yep, I’m a professor at an R1 university and I use 11:59pm for deadlines. In fact, some of the educational software we use will default to 11:59pm. It’s not weird!

      Reply ↓
    10. linger*

      I’m not actually seeing a problem with the exact phrasing used in the letter (“Sunday night at midnight”), That’s unambiguously the end of Sunday; the midnight at the start of Sunday is part of Saturday night.

      Reply ↓
  6. phira*

    LW 1: I agree with other commenters here–it does seem like you are implying you would respond differently to his requests if he were physically smaller, and/or if he asked for food you perceived as healthier. Treat his disability like any other disability, stop worrying about what he’s eating, and go from there.

    LW4: Oh my goodness, I’m having so many flashbacks right now from when I worked in academia. We absolutely had to use “Sunday at 11:59pm” language, including the time zone (including whether or not it was Daylight Saving Time or not!), or else we invariably had students emailing us about what we meant, or getting upset if they had the time zone wrong and submitted an assignment late. However, we had a very, very strict late policy, including that we did not accept any weekly homework assignments late at ALL, so we had to be very specific down to the minute.

    Basically, “Sunday at midnight” should be fine unless you start getting a lot of confusion from students about it.

    Reply ↓
    1. KateM*

      I know that a course that I was on, and that has electronic submitting, had many students late because the lecturer had set the deadline “Sunday 0:00” meaning “Sunday midnight” (really Sunday 24:00″).

      Reply ↓
      1. KateM*

        And I mean, the lecturer had themselves thought it was going to be the midnight between Sunday and Monday, and so did many students – just to be greeted upon submitting with a message that they are 23 hours or so late.

        Reply ↓
        1. knitted feet*

          I work in higher ed and we made that mistake on one of our courses once. It was pandemonium, phones ringing off the hook with panicking students. I still cringe about it to this day.

          Reply ↓
    2. linger*

      I think our assignment submission system actually let assignments be submitted late, but with a flag to that effect that stopped them being graded until the instructor overrode it.
      (I generally did grade everything that was in the system at the time that I actually started the work of grading.)

      Reply ↓
  7. Bye Academia*

    2. I get that you’re in a tough position right now, but I honestly think what’s going on in the federal government makes his hedge LESS egregious than it would be under normal circumstances. The new employee had no idea the fork in the road deal would be honored, and no idea of the future stability of his new or old agency. Your agency may be busy and expanding now, but things are changing so fast how can he trust his new position is safe either?

    I do also wonder if the employee intended to take the fork deal based only on his old job and stay in the new one (since people were encouraged to seek other work), or even that he tried to rescind the fork deal once he got hired and wasn’t allowed to?

    I really feel for you and all the federal workers in this time of uncertainty, and I hope your workload will improve soon one way or another. Thank you for your service to the country.

    Reply ↓
    1. Not a Fed*

      Agreed. One of the challenges across government and contracting right now is that the “old rules” don’t apply. No one knows what rules and norms will be followed so people have to try and make decisions that are best for themselves.

      Reply ↓
    2. Archi-detect*

      yeah, I certainly get the desire to be paid at the higher level and to legitimately list it as their job title

      Reply ↓
  8. Z Fed*

    LW#2, your compliant should be addressed to DOGE.

    #1 the resignation went to OPM and not the employee’s agency. The agency’s HR had no idea who resigned until very late in the game.

    #2 not really a jerk move because the fork in the road guidance was very uncertain. People resigned only to find out they were excluded from the offer; although, they got the email. The guy did the right thing for him to accept the promotion in case his resignation was not accepted.

    You should direct all frustration and anger at DOGE. If your office is so important DOGE should have excluded it but they’re a mess. Their goal is to die chaos and fear. Can’t blame the guy very briefly your coworker for getting out.

    Reply ↓
    2. bamcheeks*

      Yes, given the massive and devastating impacts on other agencies and services and on individual workers, it feels kind of misplaced to blame this one individual worker. I cannot really find fault with this person for trying to keep their options open in all this chaos, and I think you really try and shift your thinking. Even though your work is high visibility, you’re not insulated from the impacts of the slash and burn, and that’s firmly on the people in charge.

      Reply ↓
    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, in this desparate situation with a hostile and unpredictable external agent, employees need to put their own interests first, especially wrt getting severance.

      Even feds with currently “safe” jobs regarded as essential may soon need to scramble. Other coworkers & employees are likely also looking to jump ship because of the unhealthily long hours and stress. Don’t ruin your own health trying to make this imposed chaos work.

      Reply ↓
  9. Safetykats*

    It’s interesting that you’re more peeved at someone who just exercised an option offered (a buyout) than you are at the people who set up a system in which you can’t replace someone regardless of your ability to accomplish your work without them. Or at the HR organization who continued the transfer process for someone they apparently knew was leaving. Why is that? Because it seems like your idea of who and what is egregious is pretty misplaced.

    Reply ↓
    1. Archi-detect*

      As a fellow fed, I am pretty pissed at DOGE et. all but if I was writing the letter I probably would have left that out because it is well known and while it caused the problem, it is not where the specific problem lies in the sense of the missing advanced role

      Reply ↓
    1. Language Lover*

      It’s unclear but since they talk about how the other department should incur the inability to re-staff, it sounds like this person may have come from a different government agency. They pursued the option while at their previous role but also continued to investigate this new role because of the uncertainty whether the resigning option would come to pass. They got the new role but shortly after their resignation was approved.

      Reply ↓
  11. Cmdrshprd*

    OP3 ““Broke in and attempted to attack me”
    I would even say that just saying someone broke in to your house is enough, you don’t need the “and attempted to attack me.” to ask for people to give you extra consideration when approaching.

    I am really sorry for what you had to go through.

    Reply ↓
    1. Kim*

      I also just wanted to comment to say how sorry I am that this has happened to you and to wish you all the best with navigating a way to deal with this.

      Reply ↓
  12. LoPerry*

    Just wow… re: OP 1: It doesn’t matter that the man is overweight. He has mobility issues. Period. People of EVERY size have mobility issues. People of EVERY size have reasons for pain.
    Your opinions are irrelevant and cruel.
    What someone eats is not your business. NO ONE knows what kind of food he can/cannot eat. No one knows what he eats when he’s not at work. No one knows how/why he chooses what he chooses.
    I make choices some days because of gastrointestinal issues and they wouldn’t necessarily be considered very healthy, but I still have to eat.
    Please keep politely declining to help this man because your attitude IS going to leak out.

    Reply ↓
    1. BugBear*

      In my opinion, this is uncharitable to the LW. In fact, most people are focusing on a few of her statements (junk food) and assigning a negative attitude to it. My take is the extra information like junk food and his weight are there for context. The coworker is not in a short term situation where help will be needed for a concrete period of time like healing after a fracture. Perhaps the LW feels buying junk food is contributing to ill health for him. I took it as concern — coworker is disabled and she feels like its not ok to say no. Less people-pleasing and more of taking on more of a responsibility for others than she should. OR it was a judgement call on the cafeteria and less-than-ideal options they offer (e.g., the cafeteria only really has junk food).

      Its awful how people have piled on the LW who is actually asking AAM for help on how to handle this kindly. If she didn’t care about this coworker who she doesn’t even know well, she wouldn’t have asked for help. Also, what about the responsibility of this man (and I think gender plays a role here since he is asking a woman for help) to solve his own problem? It has got to be incredibly stressful to be reliant on others every day to get food. Why is he not coming up with a better solution than relying on his coworkers? Sounds like most of them bring lunch from home.

      Reply ↓
  13. Daria grace*

    #1: it is extremely plausible that the mobility issues were the cause of his weight gain (or that there’s no causation involved) but you can’t tell for sure and it’s none of your business anyway. Between the assumptions about his weight and the assumption that you’re going to have bad blood for not doing a favour for someone you know is nice and apologetic, you need to work on your attitude to this guy. You don’t have to start doing favours but you can at least have a good attitude.

    Reply ↓
  14. Chris*

    As frustrating as it is to OP2, I can’t really blame their newly hired colleague or HR in this situation. Everything employment-related in the federal government is so up in the air right now what somebody understands one day may be totally different by the next day.

    Wish them well and make the best decisions you can going forward.

    Reply ↓
  15. Adultiest Adult*

    Commenting in support of OP 3. I am so sorry that this happened to you, and grateful to hear that you already have good therapeutic support. I tend to also favor the “less is more” approach Alison suggested for situations like this. You don’t owe anyone details of your trauma in order to set boundaries. Please take care of yourself and know that this stranger is sending emotional support your way!

    Reply ↓
    1. Mostly Apples*

      Also, the less is more approach is a kindness to anyone in the team who may be distressed from experiencing a similar trauma at some point themselves.

      Reply ↓
      2. AnonymousOctopus*

        This. Also a CPTSD haver who experienced a later trauma made worse by all the other shit. I would really appreciate the fig leaf of “broke in and tried to attack me” without other details. Like, that’s fully enough for me to imagine months-years recovery time without anything that would trigger me or make me wonder how I should react.

        Reply ↓
      3. ev*

        Its also likely that when someone gets too interested that a “I’d prefer not to discuss it in more detail but thanks for your concern” will be useful, as some will prod at the more explicit details even if its only to basically go “I can handle it if you need to talk about that side of it”. When frankly thats usually not helpful at work.

        Reply ↓
  16. RCB*

    #3: I’ve been in a slightly similar situation, fortunately not to the extent of yours but one that left me with some PTSD that I didn’t expect to get triggered at work. It did and I ended up running to the bathroom sobbing, but lucky my boss knew the back story and I was able to ask him to discretely ask everyone not to bring up this certain subject around me again. Yes I knew that I was being discussed behind my back but it was okay, it’s what I needed, I was able to pretend I didn’t know about it for my own mental health, because the bigger goal of making sure it didn’t happen again was more important. My point though is that since you already have people in the office that know about it maybe you can designate 1 or 2 specific people as the point people to text if you’re in the bathroom crying or have to leave suddenly because you have panic attack, or can’t come in because you’re having an episode, and then they can handle informing people, that way it’s just gentler on you at work and for your own mind you can just pretend only 1-2 people know.

    Reply ↓
  17. Nat20*

    Re: #4, if your institution (and professor) uses an LMS such as Canvas to have students submit assignments, when you’re creating the assignment the software often defaults to 11:59pm as the due time anyway (which of course you can change) when you select a due date. My students tend to rely heavily on their Canvas calendars to keep track of assignment due dates, and 12am *would* show up the incorrect way on there. Just to say that a) I completely agree with you and b) an LMS can help elimate that confusion, though it certainly depends on the software.

    Reply ↓
  18. Mostly Apples*

    There was an issue with a flight out of our local airport that would leave at 00:00 Sunday (or whatever the actual day of the week was, I forget).
    The airport and airline staff were consistently dealing with people showing up 20 hours late to their flight.
    They changed the departure time to 23:55 Saturday (negligible difference); lo and behold, the confusion of travellers was avoided.

    Reply ↓
  19. Adam*

    For LW4, I agree that “Sunday at midnight” is ambiguous, but “Sunday night at midnight” isn’t. That’s always the boundary between Sunday and Monday, the boundary between Saturday and Sunday is Sunday morning. So if they’re consistently using “Sunday night at midnight”, I can understand them thinking it’s clear.

    That said, being clearer is always better, so I would definitely recommend either “Sunday at 11:59pm” or “Sunday at 24:00”, both of which are even less likely to be misinterpreted.

    Reply ↓
    1. Eve*

      “Sunday night at midnight” is clear enough but it’s clunky. I would recommend The Chicago Manual of Style‘s practice of writing “midnight on Sunday, March 16–Monday, March 17” (or just “midnight, March 16–17”).

      Reply ↓
      1. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

        Meh. The Chicago manual makes this more complex than it needs to be – move the deadline forward five minutes and all confusion evaporates. Midnight deadlines are generally pointless anyways, since most folks aren’t able to act on anything submitted until the start of business the next day.

        Reply ↓
      2. JustKnope*

        With respect to the Chicago Manual of Style, that is just as clunky as “Sunday night at midnight” if not more so!

        Reply ↓
  20. Ellis Bell*

    OP1, if he’s “very apologetic and appreciative”, then this is a request, not a demand, and you’re fine to say no! He is simply trying to find the most convenient way to get help, which involves finding people who are headed in that direction, or who are genuinely willing. Saying yes, and burning with resentment at him simply because you said something you didn’t want to isn’t fair to you or him.

    Reply ↓
  21. Spanish Prof*

    #4 – I quit doing midnight due dates after about a year of pandemic teaching. I’m not going to read the assignment until the next morning at the earliest, so why does it have to be in at midnight? So I made things due at 9:00a or even 12 noon (and I say/write “12 noon” specifically, a worrying number of students think 12p is midnight)

    Interestingly, while most students love the “extra” time (especially those who’d rather go to bed and finish in the morning), there are always one or two who say it’s confusing for a due date to NOT be midnight on the given day. So YMMV but overall I think it’s a positive change and just makes sense. What do I care if the assignment comes in at midnight? I won’t be reading it at 2am!

    Reply ↓
    1. Katie Impact*

      The a.m./p.m. confusion is unfortunately not limited to students. I once got an interview for a university-related job at 12:15 a.m. and called their office who confirmed that yes, they really truly meant 12:15 a.m. and not 12:15 p.m. I figured, well, academic types keep weird hours sometimes. Showed up at midnight and nobody was there. Yep, they meant 12:15 p.m. Showed up sleep-deprived at noon and bombed the interview. If anything like that ever happens again, I’ll have to use the exact words “15 minutes past midnight” to request clarification, I guess.

      Reply ↓
    2. Eve*

      I largely agree with you but I’ve always found the practice of writing “12 noon” and “12 midnight” odd. There isn’t an 11 midnight or a 12:30 noon, so surely there’s no harm in dropping the “12” and just writing “midnight” and “noon.”

      Reply ↓
    3. allathian*

      I’m so glad I’ve lived in an area where the 24-hour clock is the norm for most of my life… One minute to midnight is 23:59 and midnight is 00:00, so there’s absolutely no ambiguity about which day midnight belongs to.

      Reply ↓
    4. FuzzBunny*

      Students definitely find it confusing to have a due date at any time other than midnight! This is especially true because many of them use the month view in the calendar, so they don’t see the time listed, and therefore default to the assumption that it’s midnight. I find it hard to fault them for this, since that truly is the norm. So I just keep the midnight due date, and then have a grace period with no penalty.

      Reply ↓
  22. Seal*

    #1 – The problem isn’t the man’s mobility issues, weight, or what he has for lunch, it’s that he’s asking/relying on his colleagues to run what amounts to a personal errand for him every day. He either needs to bring his own lunch or make arrangements IN ADVANCE to have lunch brought to him. Even if his mobility issues were short-term or such that he could walk to the cafeteria on good days, he still needs to plan ahead or have a backup plan for getting his lunch.

    Having had multiple knee surgeries over the past few years that limited my mobility for months on end, I’m certainly sympathetic to the man’s situation. But I also planned ahead and took my knee issues into account when making plans, especially if there was any walking involved.

    Reply ↓
    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, an occasional request is OK if e.g. he forgot his lunch or his usual helper is away but people usually just want their break at lunch, or have their own personal things to fit in.

      Best solution is that he brings in his own lunch (as junky as he likes!) so he doesn’t have to ask anyone. Less good is asking a work friend to make this their daily task – but then he may soon be minus one friend.

      When disabled, always best to organise for yourself as much as poss, so that when you do have to occasionally request a favour you haven’t already exhausted the goodwill. (my longterm policy as a visually disabled person)

      Reply ↓
      1. FoodGloriousFood*

        Fellow visually disabled person here, who is now also physically disabled. Bringing food from home is not always possible, especially if you’re taking public transportation. There’s a limit to what I can carry. Many places limit what you can keep at the office. Even with a cooler I’ve never had perishable food survive the trip, and since I’ve had the additional physical limitations carrying a cooler is difficult anyway. The loss of disposable plastic bags with handles (that contain spills and can be easily clipped to a walker) at most places even nake it hard to buy items at local stores or restaurants near work or a transfer point.

        Would I ask random people I spot at the office to buy food for me daily? Probably not unless I was feeling sick from hunger that day. Would I go hungry if someone didn’t get me food? Sometimes.

        If the cafeteria was open that early I’d try to stop there on the way in if I could, but many only open for lunch. Also, a lot of the efforts to automate stuff make it difficult or impossible for disabled folks to use them, and aisles/checkout lanes are often too narrow for some mobility aids (and that’s before considering the turn radius of something like a walker).

        Reply ↓
        1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

          That’s why I said “as much as possible”. When I additionally was on crutches due to ruptured ankle ligaments (visual disability caused me to fall down some steps) I brought a compact non-perishable non-spillable lunch daily and swapped to a large breakfast and supper.

          If this had not been possible, I’d have asked for an official accommodation, so that if it was indeed a coworker who had to collect, this was part of their official taks during working hours and not part of their break.
          There is a problem with relying on coworkers every day for meals because some days everyone may refuse or at some stage everyone gets fed up and you go hungry. Also I did very occasionally need other favours and needed to reserve goodwill for those.

          Reply ↓
          1. FoodGloriousFood*

            I agree with not asking every day, and personally I only do it if it’s clear that whomever I’m asking is going to get food. For example, at a former job, I had a bunch of coworkers who would walk over to some food trucks 4-5 blocks away 1-2× per week. If I saw them at the right time I’d ask them to bring food back for me. Sometimes one of them would see me at the right time and ask if I wanted them to bring me something. These weren’t on any set schedule so I never knew which days they’d be going. Every so often I’d ask one if they were going or let them know I’d be interested in food if they do go. Every once in a while someone would say no for some reason or another, or they’d forget I asked them to grab me food, but most of the time they brought me a meal, I paid them for it, and we moved on with our days.

            BTW, eating is not generally a work assignment and isn’t covered by the ADA/accommodations process unless you are traveling for work or are a federal employee and have one of a few “targeted disabilities” as defined by OPM. Look up personal assistance or personal assistance services for more info.

            Reply ↓
    2. AskingForHelp*

      And this is how you wind up in situations where you don’t eat for 12 hours because there are no other solutions. Which I’ve done more times than I can count because most places I’ve worked don’t have cafeterias.

      If people appear to be going to eat, there’s no harm in asking someone to bring you food back as long as you pay for it, ckearly tell them what you want, and don’t get upset if it’s wrong. They can and should say no if it’s a problem, but the act of asking us not a sin.

      Randomly jumping on people who are nearby for any reason is more questionable, but even then reasonable people will either say yes or no.

      Thanks and an occasional let me pay for your meal too this time is called for. Not asking is not.

      Reply ↓
  23. Dr Unavailable*

    #5: Unless the working culture for doctors is fundamentally different where you are to where I am, this clinician is being difficult to reach via email on purpose. This is not uncommon where I work and is done to try and set boundaries against a really unmanageable level of demand on their time. Switch to calling, and consider whether having timely responses is essential in whatever you’re seeing this person for – if so, the way they work might not work for you.

    Reply ↓
    1. PhoneAccess*

      Most places here don’t allow email, but since the start of the pandemic they’ve cut back significantly on phone access too resulting in no way to actually contact them. It’s infuriating, but telling people to just call may not be helpful – and doesn’t solve the “lost” incoming mails.

      Reply ↓
    2. WS*

      It’s possible that the doctor is using their precious time on clinical stuff rather than admin stuff, which is great for the doctor but really frustrating for patients, especially in these days of greater and greater administrative burden on everyone. However, most clinics have admin staff who will do this work for/with the doctor whenever possible, and calling the reception directly rather than the doctor personally is generally a good way to trigger the “this person needs admin help” alarm.

      Reply ↓
      1. PhoneAccess*

        To be clear, my lack of phone access comment was about the office staff – I assumed all communication to the office went to/through staff. They have made it nearly impossible to call these days. They assume everyone will just use their portal, bug most provider portals have major accessibility issues and there are still a whole bunch of patients who don’t computer well enough to use one.

        Reply ↓
    3. Hospital PT*

      I can attest, even emails between medical staff in the same organization are unreliable at times. Beyond that though, unless the emails are being encrypted on both ends, the medical folks will have concerns about HIPPA that most patients would not necessarily consider.
      OP is better off checking to see if their medical organization has a patient portal. Communication through these are typically monitored by more than one person and are often set up so that messages appear on the main dashboard that providers are using all day – as opposed to them having to go to a completely different program.
      That said, a previous commenter was likely right on, being purposefully unresponsive is a way a lot of us end up prioritizing our work. Its admittedly not great, but it happens.

      Reply ↓
  24. Zarniwoop*

    “ we routinely have team members staying past 8 or 9 pm to get all of our tasks done.”

    “ people who leave under the deferred resignation program can’t get their jobs backfilled”

    So you’re being given more work and fewer people to do it with? Time to stop burning yourselves out for someone else’s bad decisions and let those balls drop.

    Reply ↓
    1. fed-adjacent*

      Unfortunately, that’s the plan and that’s what they want to happen: they make everyone’s lives miserable, they burn out and quit because the situation is unsustainable, which is an entirely avoidable circumstance and is actually wasting TONS of money rather than saving any.

      There is no good option if they actually care about the government not being completely destroyed (and/or serving the people rather than the selfish whims of a self-appointed dictator), because destroying the government is the goal of all of this chaos. And it might actually work.

      Reply ↓
    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, use the regained hours of free time to job hunt in saner organisations

      Reply ↓
    3. EllenD*

      Fifteen years ago the then new Conservative Government reduced the size of the UK civil Service. Some departments did exercises to work out which posts/work to stop and re-allocated people – a painful process with people getting voluntary redundancy/early retirement. Other Departments just encouraged people to take voluntary redundancy, and abolished their posts with no thoughts to whether the work was necessary or not. It was a short-sighted approach and resulted in some key areas losing a third to half their staff, while other non-priority work continued as normal, as people didn’t leave. Deepest sympathy to those in US Government, it is just plain horrid way of doing things.

      Reply ↓
      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        Yes I remember that stupid Tory govt and its longlasting effects on services. However, this is orders of magnitude more cruel to employees:
        they didn’t indulge in the current horrible bullying or target particular employees to make them feel unsafe for just existing. They also gave the legally prescribed severance without buggering people about.
        I hadn’t realised until this administration that there are far worse ways to cut Civil Service jobs than we experienced back then.

        Reply ↓
      2. Duckling*

        It also resulted in many of those people simply becoming external consultants at far higher cost to the taxpayer than when they were on salary. Once it was made clear that the work was either critical or had already been paid for, most of the same faces were back doing the same work and for the same department. It’s not just a horrid way of doing things, it’s actively stupid.

        Reply ↓
    4. JobConditions*

      Those of us with non-governmental employers had to learn to manage this starting in the 90s if not sooner…very sympathetic about DOGE and the ensuing chaos, but unexpected layoffs and extra work at the whims of who knows who and poor decisionmaking higher up is just normal life for most people. The difference I see is the indiscriminate choices made with no rhyme or reason (or maybe to deliberately cause cgais/danage). People learn to prioritize the workload or balls drop and their bosses either accept that or let them go; conversely workers either accept that or try again somewhere else. And job conditions change; you either accept the changes or leave.

      And yes, I know the balls that will be dropped are important, but it can’t be solved by fewer and fewer people constantly trying to take on more and more.

      Reply ↓
      1. Calanthea*

        The difference here is that the work that is being done is work that supports the structures and institutions that (literally) govern people’s lives.
        If I don’t send a reporting spreadsheet to my colleague before the end of the week, that’s annoying. If I don’t submit a tender on time, we lose out on some revenue.
        If someone isn’t able to process welfare payments, or review a regulatory document, or sign off on the safety of a new housing development, then people don’t have money to live on, products don’t get to market (or aren’t safe when they’re there) and houses don’t get built, or burn down and kill people. This work isn’t optional, it’s necessary for the function of society.

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        1. Emmy Noether*

          I feel like if products don’t go to market or houses don’t get built, that is the kind of natural consequence that should happen rapidly so that it starts annoying the right people. Letting people in need go without support, or letting things be unsafe is much harder to just let happen.

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          1. Sar*

            The issue is that the only people with power right now (ie the only ones whose annoyance would matter to the decisionmakers) are substantially more insulated from the death of government services by their money. At base, this is a plan that inherently and structurally works precisely because the decisionmakers only care about effects on rich people and everyone else can eff off. Good times in the USA.

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  25. Honey cocoa*

    Op3 I’m so sorry. It may be helpful to others , who most likely very much want to help you,and to you if you can state the concrete examples you gave here: no unexpected touching (maybe just no touching) no approaching quietly from behind etc. some people need things spelled out – and you really don’t want anyone trying to swoop you into an unexpected hug. Again, I’m so sorry, take good care.

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  26. SBH*

    I’m an adjunct instructor teaching online, and I always say 11:59 PM Central Time. But I generally don’t count late if it’s within 30 minutes. I believe Canvas even allows you to set a buffer on “late” automatically. If the instructor wants you to stick with “midnight,” maybe you can communicate it to students in other communication. I do a weekly update email to my class. I give informal “helpful hints” based on common mistakes students in previous semesters have made.

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  27. TerrorCotta*

    So LW5 is unfortunately familiar from the other side, and I highly doubt it’s technical problems. It certainly wasn’t for me! Perhaps the original LW might have been delicately suspecting that as well?

    I would absolutely tell people I never got their emails or texts, that “the server hates me” or that I (totally for real this time!) already sent them whatever I was supposed to send them. I’m still working to repair the professional damage from that time, and I still feel awful about it!

    How I was best managed was by firm, brief follow-ups. “Sorry we missed that, we do need [information/project] by [date]. Thanks.” Or “Didn’t see a response re: [appointment], let me know if that works or if you need more info.”

    Texts and phone calls would have caused even more “technical issues” from my anxiety-riddled, unmedicated, in denial keister.

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  28. r..*

    LW4,

    being unambigious with deadlines in a way that survives cultural boundaries and timezones is very common in international business.

    On this matter, “Sunday at midnight” is already ambigious within a timezone and cultural context. Imagine how it’ll be for international students, or for students that may not be in the same timezone as you; you might not think that this will be relevant to you, but occasional distance/blended learning will be a fact of the future, and people will take advantage from this by participating from … all sorts of places. Consider a situation where some of your students are currently in the US, some are in Europe, and there’s this one person in Hong Kong or Tokio or whatever just to spice things up.

    Hence I would never use a squishy phrase like “Sunday at midnight” in business comms; that’s just asking to be unhappy because you didn’t think that “Sunday at midnight” might be understood differently by your business partner in Singapore than to you.

    We instead use concrete date and time with timezone, “Sunday, 9th of March 2025 23:59 EDT”, which is a nicer way to write than 2025-03-09 23:59 EDT, which is the more technical way to disambiguate month/day vs. day/month order in dates, but IME outside of fields like engineering this tends to confuse people.

    This way there’s no ambiguity in expectations.

    Alternatively, you might just use a tool to communicate deadlines, and refer students to check the schedule there; all major e-Learning or campus management platforms offer means and ways to communicate various deadlines, and in a way that is timezone aware and can present deadlines in a way (see month/day vs day/month) the user will expect.

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    1. UTC*

      At a school it’s reasonable to expect times to be in the local timezone. Your scheme would be odd in that context, and likely cause more confusion than it solved.

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      1. r..*

        If you positively know everyone will be in the local timezone, you can of course leave it out. That doesn’t change anything about the other aspects of “Sunday at midnight” being ambigious, though.

        However the statement “there is a timezone that unambigiously is the local timezone” can quickly turn into an assumption that can get you into trouble. Say you’re working at a university that offers some curricula purely on their own, and others as a joint degree program or another cooperation with another university, which happens to be in another timezone (or possibly be on another continent), and you are a lecturer in a course that is part of that program.

        Often, those programs tend to be some of the higher prestige programs of the university, and leadership might be keen on making sure there’s no avoidable nonsense going, like ambiguities about deadlines.

        One of the consequences of modern telecoms is that we increasingly live in a world where we need to check that this is actually the case here, instead of to simply assume that it always has been so and always will be.

        Or, again, just use a tool for this. Scheduling/calendaring/campus management tools have solved all of those issues a long time ago, they will transparently and unambigiously translate between timezones, and display in 12 or 24 hour clock depending on the user’s preferences.

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  29. Gertrude*

    In fairness to LW#2’s HR section, it is very, very likely that they did not know that he had accepted the fork in the road when he was hired. Agencies were getting this information late and incomplete.

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  30. Purple Stapler*

    LW 1 – I’m going to treat this one like the former coworker who always wanted me to get her food when I was going out at lunch. No! Coworker always wanted food from a certain place. I never went there. She asked when she saw me leaving at lunch. I never said where I was going. Coworker was lazy and wanted people to cater to her. She never bothered to bring lunch.

    So for letter 1, my answer is no! I don’t care if the guy has joint issues. He should be bringing his own lunch if he can’t make it to the cafeteria under his own steam.

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  31. r..*

    LW2,

    your employee clearly chose to minimize his own financial risk at the expense of significant inconvenience for the employer, the US government.

    Given the current political context in the US, and current actions of the US government, I cannot really blame him for this.

    I understand that you, and many people in your leadership chain, are personally blameless in this, but this simply is the cost a business incurs by adopting the labor relation practices the current US administration has chosen to adopt. You’re stuck with dealing with the (frankly entirely forseeable) fallout from a top-level management decision, and this may feel unfair, or that you are being screwed over.

    If that is so, the blame really belongs with the people that made this particular set of management decisions, not with people, like either you *or* your soon-to-be-former employee that have to deal with the fallout.

    Reply ↓
    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, unless they don’t really need their salary or benefits, they should absolutely prioritise their own interests and well-being. Without guilt.
      (and if they don’t need them then why stay in a toxic environment at the mercy of every mad order puked down from on high)

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  32. Name*

    LW 4 – I’m in grad school doing an online program and all deadlines are 11:59 pm on the respective day it’s due. You may find that some software programs (i.e. Canvas, PowerSchool, Blackboard) will mark anything turned in after 12:00 am (aka midnight) as late.

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  33. Hawkwind80*

    #4, for what it’s worth, my college has 11:59 pm as a standard time for deadlines for students, and we phrase it as “end of day” rather than “midnight.” We also make sure we specify time zone for the deadline since we do have lots of online students who are not necessarily in the same time zone.

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  34. Apex Mountain*

    With everything going on in the federal gov’t now, it seems misguided to blame the employee in #2. I’m sure it’s incredibly inconvenient but people have to look out for themselves and their futures right now.

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  35. Unambiguous*

    I’m with you on the 11:59 thing, and I have seen many places (like conference proposal deadlines, summer program deadlines), switch to that in recent years. In the future when you are in charge of something, please feel free to go with the 11:59. :)

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  36. Chad H*

    I wonder if its possible to split the baby on the deadline question

    “The deadline for this assignment is Midnight on Sunday. This means it should be submitted no later than 11:59pm on Sunday” (you could add “00:01 Monday is late” but that might be too agressive)

    Reply ↓

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